# DSi incompatible with existing flash carts?



## shaunj66 (Oct 31, 2008)

*DSi incompatible with existing flash carts? *UPDATE**
Early reports suggest just that



Reports are flying in this morning that the new DSi handheld is incapable of booting existing flash carts. Our friend ahtin at Hacken.cc who has got his hands on a brand new DSi, has tested both the popular *R4 DS* and *EZ Flash V*.

ahtin has reported that the R4 DS (an auto-booting slot-1 cart), when inserted into the DSi, in fact does *NOT* automatically boot up, and fails to appear at all in the new revamped DSi main menu (which is normal behaviour for an auto-booting cart). The EZ Flash V on the other hand (a non auto-booting slot-1 cart), does in fact *show* in the DSi's main menu, but when launched generates an error which prevents it from loading any further. 

Whether or not the new flash cart "prevention" on the DSi can be disabled or worked around is yet to be determined. Once more people get their hands on the new Nintendo handheld revision, we'll undoubtedly learn more about why this is happening. Perhaps it could be something as simple as an update in the carts loader/firmware (at least in the case of the EZ-V), or perhaps something a modified firmware (ala. FlashMe) could fix. But of course, only time will tell.

Hacken.cc have not reported results on any other flash kits. Stay tuned to GBAtemp for any further news, as we'll keep you posted on any developments. 

*UPDATE!:* ahtin has informed me personally of his latest tests. Unfortunately it's not good news! Just take a look at the long list of flash carts that have *ALSO FAILED* on the DSi...

*CycloDS * - Failed
G6 DS Real - Failed
M3 DS Real - Failed
Supercard DS One  - Failed
iTouch DS - Failed
FCard  - Failed
NCard  - Failed
M3 DS Simply - Failed
U2DS  - Failed

Also, importers please note that there is no English language option in the firmware - only Japanese, so be careful!




 Discuss



ahtin's original thread



Original discussion at Hacken.cc (Chinese)

Thanks to ahtin at Hacken.cc for the news.


----------



## Noitora (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm sure they'll come up with a way to hack it *hopefully*


----------



## Satangel (Oct 31, 2008)

Noitora said:
			
		

> I'm sure they'll come up with a way to hack it *hopefully*



Yes, me too. It will just take some time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And someone test the CycloDS!


----------



## skawo96 (Oct 31, 2008)

Naw I would like to know more details about so called 'features' of DSi....I have DSphat for Flashcarts and I knew that DSi would be incompatible...


----------



## Mei-o (Oct 31, 2008)

There goes more sales Nintendo!


----------



## Prime (Oct 31, 2008)

ha!

I knew something like this would happen. I'm not going to say "hopfully they will solve this issue" considering I ain't going to get a DSi because it is a waste of money.


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, this is surely bad news.....Now the only question that remains is.....does CycloDS works, because he has a slightly different booting method, and many people are raising their hopes in it!


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

Five pretend moneys say the Evo doesn't work either.


----------



## skawo96 (Oct 31, 2008)

Nah I think thay will solve the issue in few days/weeks....It has SD card slot dammit! I'm sure they are cracking it right now...


----------



## DAZA (Oct 31, 2008)

Time is the factor here, somthing will be done about it, its not like all slot 1 manuafactures are going to stop production or give up R+D just because of that small stumbling block, i give it 3-5 months from official release date of the DSi


----------



## Spikey (Oct 31, 2008)

Love the image for the news post!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Also, while I could be WAY off, I do believe that if this is indeed protection, that could be what is causing issues like this:


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Their game obviously runs just fine on DS, but on the DSi, it keeps freezing up, and as a result is stuck in development limbo, Nintendo refusing to certify it.


----------



## Jackreyes (Oct 31, 2008)

News like this, along with the price tag,
makes the DSi incompatible with me.


----------



## nivrae (Oct 31, 2008)

I was wondering if something like this would happen. I'm not too worried though, we'll have a workaround eventually. I'm also curious as to see if the CycloDS will be able to boot on the DSi. I wasn't aware it had a different booting method than the other flash cards. Does this go the same for the Edge card since it is a CycloDS clone?


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

Any solution will likely require new flashcarts or a hack for the DSi firmware. AFAIK, most (all?) flashcarts do not allow the bit of code that boots them up to be overwritten, so this could not be fixed by an update to the flashcart's software.


----------



## mrchew (Oct 31, 2008)

since the DSi has region lock they should try a Japanese flashcart


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

mrchew said:
			
		

> since the DSi has region lock they should try a Japanese flashcart


There is nor region lock for games!


----------



## Rayder (Oct 31, 2008)

It's as I heard then......


Seems I heard the DSi uses a digital signature of some sort to allow games to work.  Newer DS games will contain this signature. The old DS's don't look for this, so games will work anyway.

Old DS games are just on a whitelist in the DSi firmware to allow them to work.  

Possibly, games that are reported to have issues running on the DSi may be because they are missing on the whitelist.

Obviously, no flashcarts will ever be on the whitelist....unless they are hacked in to the firmware.

Or some such blah-blah like that.

I swear I read that on THIS forum somewhere.


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> mrchew said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More specifically, only DSiWare will be region locked.


----------



## mrchew (Oct 31, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> mrchew said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DSi software (software that is only compatible with DSi) is region locked, eg: European DSi software can only be played on European DSi consoles... Nintendo DS software however is region free so you can play any DS software on DSi from any region. You can also browse the Internet on your DSi wherever you are in the world and exchange your photos with friends from around the world... DSi is region locked because DSi embeds net communication functionality within itself and we are intending to provide net services specifically tailored for each region. Also because we are including parental control functionality for Nintendo DSi and each region has its unique age limit made by different independent.  kotaku.com


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

Destructobot said:
			
		

> Toni Plutonij said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's the reason why testing Japan flashcart would have the same result as the english one..There is nor region lock..


----------



## The Teej (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh god, if we're going to be getting into the whole firmware update cat-and-mouse crap like the PSP and Wii has, I'm just going to keep my DS Lite solely for homebrew. I really can't be assed to keep dodging "killer firmwares" just so I can play ports of games and apps I've been playing/using on big/older screens for ages.


----------



## Sjaool (Oct 31, 2008)

If there is a whitelist it is the weak spot in the protection of the DSi.


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

Sjaool said:
			
		

> If there is a whitelist it is the weak spot in the protection of the DSi.


Actually, I'm thinking that would be a strong point of protection.....Because DSi will be booting only, and only games that are "registered" there..


----------



## Dunny (Oct 31, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> ...so DSi would think that he's booting NSMB, but it would actually be a game...



I might make this my new .sig... 

D.


----------



## Scorpei (Oct 31, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> Sjaool said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hardly, that would probably work using the header which can be faked. I suggest everyone just waits a little while (or just buy an old DS if they want to use their homebrew, naturally though you would mis the 2 cameras and the SD slot) until someone tests all things (no passthrough has been tested for example). Or at least someone with more in depth knowlidge looks at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

Dunny said:
			
		

> Toni Plutonij said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Sorry, my mistake....I've corrected it..

And yeah....waiting for few more hours will probably bring us a lot of info!!


----------



## mortys (Oct 31, 2008)

It was evident that flashcard will not run on DSi as their firmware use some part of the old DS firmware. As the DSi as a diffrenet one, it seems logic that flashcart don't work. Maybe if somebody succeed in making "Real Fake" DS carts or dump the DSi firmware, things will change.


----------



## hova1 (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm so startled


----------



## Defiance (Oct 31, 2008)

Lol, I bet the DS-X is going to be the only Flashcard that works.  xD


----------



## pilotwangs (Oct 31, 2008)

hova1 said:
			
		

> I'm so startled


South park?



Anywho,there will no doubt be a way round this within the first week the DSi goes on sale.

I just hope any hacks/firmware will work on the European DSi's.


----------



## Mbmax (Oct 31, 2008)

It's quite normal for flashcarts that skip the health screen and DS menu. very simple for Nintendo to block this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



For the EZ5 it's not the end of the world because the team can update the boostrap on this flashcart.


----------



## pepone1234 (Oct 31, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> Sjaool said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But this would be a bit simple to do a trick with it. You only have to modify the flashcart as if it were an "old" DS game and the dsi would probably boot it without problems. I don't think the only problem is about the headers that are able to boot.
I think the system of the dsi has something more sophisticated to identify flashcarts.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 31, 2008)

ahh...now we see the TRUE purpose of this DSi....its just a cop out to stop flashcards...just as my inside Nintendo Intel said so...

"to Greatly Reduce Piracy"



DON'T BUY THIS MOTHER ***KER!..DON'T LET NINTENDO WIN!


----------



## shaunj66 (Oct 31, 2008)

The following carts, along with the R4 DS and EZ V *DO NOT WORK ON THE DSi*

CycloDS  - Failed
G6 DS Real - Failed
M3 DS Real - Failed
Supercard DS One - Failed
iTouch DS - Failed
FCard - Failed
NCard - Failed
M3 DS Simply - Failed
U2DS - Failed

There are also LIVE (mandatory?) updates to the DSi firmware when you enter the Shop or Settings menu, much like the Wii.

The d-pad and buttons are not clicky (which I had hoped!) they are just like the DS Lite buttons, but are improved a little (hopefully better diagonals).


----------



## RadioShadow (Oct 31, 2008)

So Flash Cards don't work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Is it true about it blocks US/EU Official DS games?


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

RadioShadow said:
			
		

> Is it true about it blocks US/EU Official DS games?


No. Only DSiWare (the software you download from the online shop) is region locked.


----------



## xalphax (Oct 31, 2008)

RadioShadow said:
			
		

> So Flash Cards don't work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



only official dsi games, ds games remain region free!

edit: destructobot beat me to it.


----------



## Scorpei (Oct 31, 2008)

shaunj66 said:
			
		

> The following carts, along with the R4 DS and EZ V *DO NOT WORK ON THE DSi*
> 
> CycloDS  - Failed
> G6 DS Real - Failed
> ...


LIVE sounds more like you simply get the update (and the update is performed) while you can browse the shop / settings menu. Wouldn't expect that though (would expect a big message 'don't turn off, updating' while you can't do a thing). Thing is of course without internet connection no update via settings menu 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But why haven't any of the slot-2 card been tested (with passme2/nopass)? Have they kept the bios/firmware chip the same btw?


----------



## raulpica (Oct 31, 2008)

Scorpei said:
			
		

> shaunj66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because there's NO slot-2?


----------



## Awdofgum (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm curious to see if the Acekard 2 fails or not.


----------



## Sir-Fritz (Oct 31, 2008)

Scorpei said:
			
		

> shaunj66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The dsi doesnt have slot 2.


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

Yeah, I was just about to write that!!

Only passcard can be tested, and that's only if it has splash screen!


----------



## teonintyfive (Oct 31, 2008)

I'd laugh like fuck if they tried the DS-X and it worked.


----------



## kedest (Oct 31, 2008)

Interesting. I always thought a flashcard was a perfect imitation of a real game, so the DS - even a new model - could never tell the difference.


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Oct 31, 2008)

In that case, I think  p1ngpong  would be on the top of the World!!

And, it's not that impossible that DS-X would work! It might just happen..


----------



## Scorpei (Oct 31, 2008)

raulpica said:
			
		

> Scorpei said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Granted (yes I did forget that for a second) it isn't there right now, but what I'm getting at is open the thing up and see if one couldn't connect one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Would also be interesting to see what a nopass (/passme) would do in general. I wonder if the buffer overflow is still there. Also (at least passme1) used the original cards authentication.


----------



## Brian117 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow...whoever thought Nintendo would allow flashcart use, really fails miserably.

You're telling me, after all the crap they're doing right now with the flashcart companies, you thought they would allow piracy even MORE on their new system?

Crazy...

But don't get me wrong, having flashcart use on it would be cool.


----------



## raulpica (Oct 31, 2008)

Scorpei said:
			
		

> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thought the same thing, but I'm still waiting for some internal photos, to say that


----------



## BlueStar (Oct 31, 2008)

Awdofgum said:
			
		

> I'm curious to see if the Acekard 2 fails or not.



Only sliver of hope with AK2 is that it doesn't skip the health and safety screen.


----------



## kedest (Oct 31, 2008)

Why do some of you think DS-X might work? What's different about that one?


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Awdofgum said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Neither does the CycloDS.


----------



## BORTZ (Oct 31, 2008)

balls! Well i guess we dont have much to worry about. alot of you said you werent going to even bother buying one, and then an top of that we would have to wait for new flash carts, which shouldnt be too far behind. and even then we might not need them. We have an SD slot? whats stopping us?


----------



## agentgamma (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P Flashcards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Hackers will probably make CFWs! XD
Memory card slots usually lead to piracy.
SO WHY did Nintendo add one?!?! XD
Just look at the


----------



## CockroachMan (Oct 31, 2008)

This was pretty much expected.. 

Now we wait for someone to hack the SD slot.


----------



## Mohammad (Oct 31, 2008)

please someone hack the firmware quickly lol, yeah what will be first a firmware hack (or new firmware) or a flashcard that can bypass, so what makes an official card official? Can't we just copy something like Mario Kart DS and have it look real?


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 31, 2008)

kedest said:
			
		

> Why do some of you think DS-X might work? What's different about that one?



Nothing but it seems the DSX has replaced neoflash as the byword for useless in the world of flash carts so it would be incredibly ironic for the DSX to work where all the other top tier carts stumble.

Back on topic while the whitelist idea is one but a couple of thousand games and the impracticality of hashing the whole rom means any whitelist would probably be restricted to the header information. I have not studied how DS flash carts are made/work in that great an amount of detail at this stage so I am not sure if it is merely a bug that has been exploited up to now that has been fixed or not.

What would be interesting (to me at least) is a savelist era (no bootstrap update) EZ5.


----------



## lcleong (Oct 31, 2008)

get over with it !! why so nice about DSi anyway? if u wan DSi just buy the orignal game instead of hoping it working on flashcart!


----------



## agentgamma (Oct 31, 2008)

Mohammad said:
			
		

> please someone hack the firmware quickly lol, yeah what will be first a firmware hack (or new firmware) or a flashcard that can bypass, so what makes an official card official? Can't we just copy something like Mario Kart DS and have it look real?
> My predictions
> 1- Hacker finds exploit.
> 2- People use exploit
> ...


StillAliveDS?
Video Games Hero?
Emulators?


----------



## JPH (Oct 31, 2008)

Dude, you gotta be kidding me - none of the flashcarts work?
Nintendo really showed us now.
That's pretty fucking crazy - kudos to you, Nintendo.

Hopefully some DSi-compatible flashcarts will pop up at the time needed, but until then let everyone enjoy their Lite's and the stacks of flashcarts available.


----------



## Doomsday Forte (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, I feel sorry for everyone here.  You all have to sell your old DSes and buy the DSi against your will.  Tsk tsk.  I'll keep playing on my old DS because I'm free of mind control!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Edit:  And besides, who didn't see this coming?  Durr, Sony did the same thing with the PSP-3000 and the TA-088v3 or whatever motherboards.


----------



## lolzed (Oct 31, 2008)

lol,more resons why people won't buy DSi,guess most of us are sticking to DSLite,no?


----------



## lcleong (Oct 31, 2008)

Fuck DSi! who care it anyway! ALL HAIL to DSLite!


----------



## Gullwing (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm sure that flashcards are gonna be developed for the DS i too.... So people will buy it for sure....


----------



## WildWon (Oct 31, 2008)

Erm, whats stopping flash-cart makers to update the firmware to be read in a different way? The DSi came out... this morning, was it? Give it a week (at MOST 2) before you freak out about not being able to use your flash carts. Have faith in the scene people. Shit'll be hacked in no time


----------



## agentgamma (Oct 31, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> Dude, you gotta be kidding me - none of the flashcarts work?
> Nintendo really showed us now.
> That's pretty fucking crazy - kudos to you, Nintendo.
> 
> Hopefully some *DSi-compatible flashcarts* will pop up at the time needed, but until then let everyone enjoy their Lite's and the stacks of flashcarts available.


SD Slots_ never_ helped pirates


----------



## thegame07 (Oct 31, 2008)

If new flash cards have to be made Nintendo are just giving the flash card makers more money. The question is will newer versions of the nds lite work with flash cards?


----------



## Lumstar (Oct 31, 2008)

AFAIK DS is technically capable of region lock, but it was never used. Not even as a proof of concept.


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

WildWon said:
			
		

> Erm, whats stopping flash-cart makers to update the firmware to be read in a different way?


Mainly the fact that the firmware never gets a chance to run, because the DSi won't boot the carts in the first place.


----------



## arctic_flame (Oct 31, 2008)

Haruhi said:
			
		

> AFAIK DS is technically capable of region lock, but it was never used. Not even as a proof of concept.



It is technically possible. The GameCodes in the header contain a region flag.


----------



## thegame07 (Oct 31, 2008)

Some cards can be updated when not in the ds though.


----------



## agentgamma (Oct 31, 2008)

thegame07 said:
			
		

> The question is will newer versions of the nds lite work with flash cards?
> 
> They probably won't put effort into the DSL since they WILL kill it.
> Give them about 2 months after release =P
> ...


Although they probably wouldn't =)
Think about it - Little Billy takes a DS with him to his trip to the US
Billys mother decides to buy him a game in the US for the long flight home.
If its region locked Little Billy will cry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Parent gets annoyed as DS game doesnt work.
Parent decides not to buy more DS games.
Nintendo see LESS money.


----------



## WildWon (Oct 31, 2008)

Destructobot said:
			
		

> WildWon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've worked with three separate cards over the past few months. CycloDS, Supercard DS-1 and DS-TT. Now, if i'm right, SC-DS1 & TT can be fully firmware upgraded w/out running the card. I mean, their info is all changed ON the micro-sd card. Now the Cyclo needs to run for the firmware to be updated... but whats stopping them from making a compatible update that you put into a DS or DSL and updated it, then it works with DSi as well?


----------



## Destructobot (Oct 31, 2008)

WildWon said:
			
		

> whats stopping them from making a compatible update that you put into a DS or DSL and updated it, then it works with DSi as well?


As far as I know, the bit of code that boots the flashcarts and then loads the firmware cannot be overwritten (at least not on most flashcarts). This bit of code is what the DSi won't run.


----------



## kitetsu (Oct 31, 2008)

Hmph. Well, tough shit, i guess. Waiting for a successful report won't kill me, unless it's Judgment Day tomorrow.


----------



## Raven Darkheart (Oct 31, 2008)

well the way i see it. we have a year or so to figure this out stateside. and if no one does. we all stick with our DSL's for now.

its not like were short of games and need to get this on launch day


----------



## go185 (Oct 31, 2008)

There still might be hope for the AK2, AK-RPG, Ninjapass X9, and Ninjapass DS Flash!

Actually, a Ninjapass DS Flash/Ninjapass Junior might be something to try, as you can "burn" games to it and, at the DS main menu, appears as the game you burned and not as a flashcart.


----------



## DjoeN (Oct 31, 2008)

Lucky i have enough original games to run on the DSi i pre-ordered from play-asia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Black)

and it's not about pirating games on it, i buy it more for my collection of nintendo stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



It's always fun to have something months before others do


----------



## Raika (Oct 31, 2008)

It seems that most of the flashcarts we use are not compatible...


----------



## RadioShadow (Oct 31, 2008)

Well Nintendo have put in a SD Slot in so it does mean hackers can work on a solution.


----------



## shaunj66 (Oct 31, 2008)

Also, importers please note that there is no English language option in the firmware - only Japanese, so be careful!


----------



## CockroachMan (Oct 31, 2008)

Raika said:
			
		

> It seems that *all* the flashcarts we use are not compatible...



fixed

And nothing to worry about.. the thing shouldn't come to west until mid-2009 anyway, a solution will come probably before that.

So, unless you're crazy about taking pictures and modifying them on the streets.. I don't see a reason to get one right now


----------



## Mbmax (Oct 31, 2008)

Destructobot said:
			
		

> WildWon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean the bootstrap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



You can on EZ5.
I know particularly that because i have bricked one EZ5 v1 with this dangerous update.


----------



## berlinka (Oct 31, 2008)

lolzed said:
			
		

> lol,more resons why people won't buy DSi,guess most of us are sticking to DSLite,no?



I'm afraid I have to agree with that. I would like to think that Nintendo has something fantastic up their sleeves, but when I look at their complete off-kilter Wii Music title, I fear that Nintendo isn't always right.

I'll even admit that, because I was so disappointed in the DSi when they announced it, I really hope the DSi will fail miserably (in a Visual Boy kind of way)..sorry..that's how I feel...


----------



## Raven Darkheart (Oct 31, 2008)

berlinka said:
			
		

> lolzed said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


visualboy was the emulator.
VIRTUALBOY was the failed system


----------



## berlinka (Oct 31, 2008)

Raven Darkheart said:
			
		

> visualboy was the emulator.
> VIRTUALBOY was the failed system



WHOOOPS!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  I've really embarrassed myself! Anyway I mean this thing:


----------



## smealum (Oct 31, 2008)

But does it run crysis ?


----------



## DjoeN (Oct 31, 2008)

There's a big change, that IF the DSi gets hacked before release in Europe/US
Nintendo will fix it with the Europe/US launch DSi models.


----------



## Tormendo (Oct 31, 2008)

Yes, you right but i think it will come a hacked version of the firmware


----------



## War (Oct 31, 2008)

I was expecting flashcarts not to work :\ But I'm positive there's gonna be some sort of workaround...hopefully it won't require you to buy a new flashcart that is DSi compatible.


----------



## Raven Darkheart (Oct 31, 2008)

come on now 
when the ds came out it took em at least a year to come up with a slot 1 solution that was stable
so we shouldnt panic yet


----------



## Doggy124 (Oct 31, 2008)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> CycloDS - Failed
> G6 DS Real - Failed
> M3 DS Real - Failed
> Supercard DS One - Failed
> ...


DSi - *Failed*


----------



## Twiffles (Oct 31, 2008)

I would say "All the teams have to do is release new FW right?" then I realized "OHWAI- R4 Team is dead... Fck."


----------



## kaizer ryo (Oct 31, 2008)

Broken Skye said:
			
		

> I would say "All the teams have to do is release new FW right?" then I realized "OHWAI- R4 Team is dead... Fck."


Dude take a chill pill.I'm sure a new flashcart or a new firmware update will be released for erm......cards other than the r4


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

kaizer ryo said:
			
		

> Broken Skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the way the internals of the carts work though, rather than the code in the firmware.  I'm guessing it will take a hardware revision for most carts to be able to work on the DSi, and then a short tme before Nintendo updates the firmware in the DSi to block the new booting code.


----------



## Raven Darkheart (Oct 31, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> It's the way the internals of the carts work though, rather than the code in the firmware.  I'm guessing it will take a hardware revision for most carts to be able to work on the DSi, and then a short tme before Nintendo updates the firmware in the DSi to block the new booting code.



as long as the nextgen dsi cards come out it will always be back and forth like the wii mod updates. i'd rather have it that way to be honest


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

Raven Darkheart said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would as it would keep the casual downloader away from the scene, lots of work = only dedicated pirates.  The problem I'm thinking though is that it could take new hardware revisions from flashcart makers each time it's blocked.  The flashcart makers could make their internals updateable but then it would leave them open to Nintendo bricking code.  That's why I'm thinking it'll be a case of modchips and flashcarts for the DSi.  The modchip contains the bootcode for the cart and the cart does the rest.

I'm not really that up on the internals of how these things work these days, last time I looked at how a mod chip actually worked was back in the PSX/Saturn days so I could be completely wrong!


----------



## da_head (Oct 31, 2008)

even more reason for me to stick with my dsl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



though it would be kool if they hacked it.


----------



## Joey R. (Oct 31, 2008)

No problem, it's just another reason why I won't buy this new DS. Lite > DSi


----------



## Translucentbill (Oct 31, 2008)

Meh, i wasnt planning on buying the DSi, i would rather have the GBA slot so i can buy an ez flash 3 in 1. But yeah the DS lite is worth the extra what? $50? Brighter screens, lighter, skinnier, better looking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

The DSi to me looks like another company trying to milk the fuck out of one of their better products. The only feature i like is the built in web browser. But then again with the DS lite you could just buy a 3 in 1 and get the opera browser.


----------



## elfsander (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm happy Nintendo corrected bugs in their software. But people now crying like "I can't use my flashcard" should just skip the DSi. Or wait until it's hacked. And yes, it will be. EVERYTHING can be hacked.


----------



## xalphax (Oct 31, 2008)

if the lite was not able to work with flashcarts, i would still use my original ds phat.

and as i think the lite is just perfect and doesn't need an update, i wont buy the dsi.

problem solved.


----------



## playallday (Oct 31, 2008)

May I ask, how to we know they aren't lying?


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

playallday said:
			
		

> May I ask, how to we know they aren't lying?



Who? Do you mean Ahtin?


----------



## playallday (Oct 31, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> playallday said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I do.  I don't think he is but we need to think about this.


----------



## gizmo_gal (Oct 31, 2008)

I knew it! I knew it! I knew this would happen!

Maybe the SD slot will come in handy in the hackingness of the system.

Either way, I have faith that the Teams and Hacker community will come through for us. Anyone care to guess how long it'll take? I'm thinking about 3 months.


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

playallday said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He's not lying, Ahtin is a reliable source of information.  Plus the vids he's uploaded are pretty good physical proof.  I reckon you're just desperately clinging on to the hope that your card will work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 j/k


----------



## playallday (Oct 31, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> playallday said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you show me the videos?  Thanks.


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

playallday said:
			
		

> Can you show me the videos?  Thanks.



Sorry, mean to say pictures, d'oh.


----------



## Raven Darkheart (Oct 31, 2008)

gizmo_gal said:
			
		

> I knew it! I knew it! I knew this would happen!
> 
> Maybe the SD slot will come in handy in the hackingness of the system.
> 
> Either way, I have faith that the Teams and Hacker community will come through for us. Anyone care to guess how long it'll take? I'm thinking about 3 months.


hmmmm with the new tech it might take more then 3 months
hell when the ds came out we had to wait a bit b4 there was any stable slot 1 cards


----------



## omatic (Oct 31, 2008)

The Cyclo doesn't work!? No wai!

I really hope they didn't sneak in some kind of hardware lockout. It won't be too long before we have some kind of flashcart working on the DSi, though. We might even see the SD slot being used directly, which would be awesome considering it supports SDHC (according to Joystiq), of which there are very affordable 16gb class 6 cards.


----------



## jenngcia (Oct 31, 2008)

I am usually a first adopter but given that it's in Japanese, no native mp3 playback, and no flashcard support... I'll pass.

But maybe this could be a blessing, as now there's an incentive to make that SD slot work for homebrew, and when Nintendo begins selling games for download, it's a matter of time, before someone reverse engineer it for homebrews...


----------



## RPG Hacker (Oct 31, 2008)

Well it was only logically that this would happen. No surprise at all. Nintendo would have been stupid not to lock flash carts from being loaded. But I'm pretty sure that this won't last for very long.


----------



## Tomy Sakazaki (Oct 31, 2008)

Anyone tried WiFi-me?


----------



## recover (Oct 31, 2008)

Since the DSi have its own SD slot, shouldn't it be possible just to flash the DSi firmware to load stuff from the SD slot? I mean, if someone manages to do that, do we really need to use a specific slot 1 card to play games? It will require some kind of hardware to flash the firmware, but when that's done there shouldn't be any need for any extra hardware.
Just kicking around some thoughts guys.


----------



## Sstew (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow, Even the Cyclo doesn't work, 

As much as the new DS is great with the camera's, SD support, ect, Im sure I will still use my "phat" DS more.


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

recover said:
			
		

> Since the DSi have its own SD slot, shouldn't it be possible just to flash the DSi firmware to load stuff from the SD slot? I mean, if someone manages to do that, do we really need to use a specific slot 1 card to play games? It will require some kind of hardware to flash the firmware, but when that's done there shouldn't be any need for any extra hardware.
> Just kicking around some thoughts guys.



I see where you're coming from with that idea, but I'm guessing that they've encrypted the firmware and if they've used a similar encryption technique to download play then we might not ever see a custom firmware.  I think it's just a case of wait and see what happens when the more technically gifted get to grips with it.


----------



## baronluigi (Oct 31, 2008)

Bua, it is not important for Spanish people like me, because we will be the last that will get this console.... so i think that there will be time enough xD


----------



## Rayder (Oct 31, 2008)

All this means to me is that the DSi is COMPLETELY useless to me.

I had no plans of buying one anyway.

I certainly hope that DSlite's will continue to be sold and won't be discontinued in favor of "the useless".


----------



## Sstew (Oct 31, 2008)

Rayder said:
			
		

> All this means to me is that the DSi is COMPLETELY useless to me.
> 
> I had no plans of buying one anyway.
> 
> I certainly hope that DSlite's will continue to be sold and won't be discontinued in favor of "the useless".



I hope they dont stop production on the DS lites either, My phat DS is on its last legs, and I'd rather a lite than a DSi


----------



## ViRGE (Oct 31, 2008)

Raven Darkheart said:
			
		

> come on now
> when the ds came out it took em at least a year to come up with a slot 1 solution that was stable
> so we shouldnt panic yet


A lot of that time was spent just reverse engineering the handheld to understand how it worked. The Slot-2 solution was actually pretty crude, it didn't take very long because it wasn't based on any kind of advanced understanding of the hardware. Boot the DS with a real game, then throw it an instruction to a memory address that should not have worked if the DS firmware was written correctly in the first place (which is why Nintendo fixed it with later firmwares). The advantage now is that we have a good understand of the hardware and while the DSi changes some things, the specs of Slot-1 and the main CPU will not have changed. We know how to patch games on the fly to deal with the additional delays of NAND flash, and to intercept calls to read/write savegames. And if my understanding of modern flashcards is right, we even know Nintendo's original DS game signing key. It shouldn't take a year, the hardware has been developed, it'll be a matter of what mechanism is blocking current carts, and finding a vulnerability to bypass it. Nintendo has proven to be poor at correctly implementing security measures in the past.

It will be interesting to see if the speculation about a white-list are true. If Nintendo is smart they've added an additional game signing key (one we don't know) to new titles, and this is where the white-list would make sense. I can't imagine this holding up for very long though, it relies on the cart not lying. Since these are active devices, lying is very easy to do. We can't fake being a new game that the DS doesn't know about (due to new keys) but we could fake being an old one, albeit at the risk of starting an arms race with Nintendo in future firmware updates.

I would not be surprised if this new blocking mechanism made it in to the DS Lite eventually though. Clearly it's to Nintendo's advantage to break old flash carts in both the DSi and the older DS Lite.

On that note however, I sincerely doubt we'll see a SD hack on the DSi's SD card slot. What makes the DS unique is that it's meant to execute games coming from fast ROM memory, and while this isn't quite as literal as it was with the GBA (which had virtually no RAM because of the ROM), it still holds true. For SD flash carts, timing hacks had to be developed to trick the DS in to putting up with the fact that reads from NAND flash are not as fast as they are with the original ROM (If Openchip is still here, he could probably say a great deal more about this). This is part of the reason why every flash cart has a small processor on it, because it needs to constantly intercept things. Making the DSi read from its own SD slot means that we won't have that processor and we can't execute games simply by throwing the bootup routine a new address that points to the SD slot. The firmware itself would need to be modified to perform what the flash cart processor currently does, and I'm not sure that would work for any number of reasons. Not the least of which includes if we can even write custom firmwares, or if it's possible to shoehorn one of the ARM processors in to doing this without throwing off other timings or slowing down the DS. Getting current flash carts working on the DS will probably be far easier than going to the next level and executing games from the SD slot.


----------



## Mbmax (Oct 31, 2008)

One flashcart will work on DSi.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





This one. 


Spoiler











It's perhaps time to look inside this stuff to see how it boot ...


----------



## shaunj66 (Oct 31, 2008)

ccosmos said:
			
		

> One flashcart will work on DSi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was that even ever released? I don't believe it was...


----------



## Mbmax (Oct 31, 2008)

shaunj66 said:
			
		

> Was that even ever released? I don't believe it was...


It is. You can find it at divineo.

The official DSvision website
DSvision Tutorial


----------



## leinad (Oct 31, 2008)

ViRGE said:
			
		

> Raven Darkheart said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@Games from SD. Truethly it is realy doubfull (if not even impossible) to run whole games from SD, but homebrews shouldnt be a big problem ;P


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

leinad said:
			
		

> @Games from SD. Truethly it is realy doubfull (if not even impossible) to run whole games from SD, but homebrews shouldnt be a big problem ;P



Only if the firmware can be hacked.


----------



## leinad (Oct 31, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> leinad said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah of course there have to be a base to run other code =|


----------



## Another World (Oct 31, 2008)

just as i feared this thread is 2% fact and 98% speculation. we all knew from the start that the new firmware would not allow the current generation of flash kits to work. no one should say anything else until the hardware is studied and hacks are attempted. we have no idea if you can boot anything off the sd slot because no one has tried yet, talking about it is just more speculation. i'm not saying don't post, because i know everyone wants to get their thoughts posted. but don't add wood to the speculation fire, lets wait and let the professionals handle it.

-another world


----------



## khan (Oct 31, 2008)

People at Maxconsole have the following scan which supposedly comes from dsi manual.


----------



## Miles (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm pretty sure Nintendo said something about how flashcarts wouldn't work anymore or something to the effect of "stopping piracy".
It doesn't surprise me at all that they don't work, and I don't see why anyone might have expected it to work either.


----------



## Balrogs.Pain (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, hopefully someone can create a patch or new firmware by the time it comes out in the americas. Because i really want the DSI so i can animate (The photo allows you to kind of rotoscope pictures) and well, in order to get the DSI i have to turn in my DS lite at the store i bought it from (They allow that, just pay the left overs)


----------



## DeMoN (Oct 31, 2008)

Future-proof flash card my ass.  Fucking dumbshit flash card teams making claims they can't back up.


----------



## VISHI SO FISHI (Oct 31, 2008)

like i said before,no need to worry guys, our hackers around the world have a lot of brain too and i am certain that they will find away through this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And always remember the SD card slot they have givin us ,we can do wonders with that!


----------



## playallday (Oct 31, 2008)

Where the Nintendo did they get a DSi!?!?


----------



## djgarf (Oct 31, 2008)

just a bit of speculation here but even though it cant boot flashcarts (no surprise really) the code needed to defeat this will be in the new games sooooooo it only takes someone to hunt through the code from one of the said new games to find exactly wot piece of code is doing this

as for the comments about nintendo failing by not allowing flashcarts to work thats just fookin hilarious
it will sell no matter if it can run flashcarts or not,the avarage game buyer isnt as clued up as most people on places like this (original ds games do actually sell hundreds of thousands of units)


----------



## djgarf (Oct 31, 2008)

xcdjy said:
			
		

> djgarf said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it may be obvious to people who actually think about the situation but to all the moaners who are far too upset to think properly cus nintendo have blocked their precious hack tools it may not be.....


----------



## Kokorazashi (Oct 31, 2008)

skawo96 said:
			
		

> Nah I think thay will solve the issue in few days/weeks....It has SD card slot dammit! I'm sure they are cracking it right now...



My thoughts exactly. Maybe the traditional flashcarts are no longer needed and a hacked firmware will do the same thing. Look at the PSP.


----------



## chuckstudios (Oct 31, 2008)

djgarf said:
			
		

> just a bit of speculation here but even though it cant boot flashcarts (no surprise really) the code needed to defeat this will be in the new games sooooooo it only takes someone to hunt through the code from one of the said new games to find exactly wot piece of code is doing this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If they did it properly, then no.


----------



## ViRGE (Oct 31, 2008)

Kokorazashi said:
			
		

> skawo96 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The thing about the PSP is that it reads games from a disc; there's really no difference between discs and NAND flash in that respect. In either case you need to load the vast majority of assets in to RAM and carefully stream the rest from a device with (relatively) poor access times. Making it work was largely a matter of reading from the MemoryStick slot. For the DS with high-speed ROM access, making a game work from NAND flash will be much more challenging.


----------



## sconethief (Oct 31, 2008)

who needs flash carts anyyway??? they have an SD card slot for a reason!!!!


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

sconethief said:
			
		

> who needs flash carts anyyway??? they have an SD card slot for a reason!!!!



Yeah, for storing your music, games and downloaded content.


----------



## cutterjohn (Oct 31, 2008)

Hey! How about the hw beyond the SD slot, camera(s), larger screen and more memory: i.e. Did they beef up the arm9 any? Drop the artificial GPU throttling?


----------



## Dark (Oct 31, 2008)

Aw I don't want to buy a new flash card for the DSi and have it end up like the r4 =[.


----------



## Linkiboy (Oct 31, 2008)

chuckstudios said:
			
		

> djgarf said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The chip has to be able to be written in some way. Maybe it's like SL1 on the current DS' but I doubt Nintendo will want to repeat that mistake again


----------



## JPH (Oct 31, 2008)

Sure if they don't do what djgarf said, they'll (hackers) figure out how to load up NDS roms from the SD card.
could probably be done


----------



## shakirmoledina (Oct 31, 2008)

well speculation is what makes gbatemp interesting... hadrian always says things like so and so game is gonna be gr8 (insecticide anyone?) but then things change thus this is what makes it interesting but also know this much tht to say with understanding of the DSi is better than just speaking.
Also i wanna repeat 2 things ie. Ahtin is very much trusted since someone doubted tht and also we all love each other by mouth thus we respect each other's opinion


----------



## Spikey (Oct 31, 2008)

khan said:
			
		

> People at Maxconsole have the following scan which supposedly comes from dsi manual.


If that's indeed from the manual, nice to see that SDHC logo. I thought ass backwards Nintendo would use only standard SD.


----------



## 11gardir (Oct 31, 2008)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> DON'T BUY THIS MOTHER ***KER!..DON'T LET NINTENDO WIN!



Huh?
Nintendo made your DS...


----------



## lilkerv90210 (Oct 31, 2008)

since the dsi has an sd slot couldnt there e some type of program tha could bypass the dsi firmware in order to boot games snd homebrew


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 31, 2008)

please donate to [email protected] to help me pay for a DSi so that I may begin reverse-engineering it.


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

lilkerv90210 said:
			
		

> since the dsi has an sd slot couldnt there e some type of program tha could bypass the dsi firmware in order to boot games snd homebrew



How would you load the program without a flashcart?


----------



## playallday (Oct 31, 2008)

I was about to ask why they haven't dumped the firmware 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## Another World (Oct 31, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> Sure if they don't do what djgarf said, they'll (hackers) figure out how to load up NDS roms from the SD card.
> could probably be done



assuming the sd slot has access to the hardware in the right way. what if it doesn't allow certain reads from the sd slot based on a set of paramaters, like if it has part of a header that makes it a rom/homebrew? info that is not in mp3s for example. ---- sorry for adding on to speculation =P

-another world


----------



## Noitora (Oct 31, 2008)

Nope, someone else will hack it, no need to donate to you.
Also how do we know that you're actually able to hack the flashcart protection?


----------



## chuckstudios (Oct 31, 2008)

Noitora said:
			
		

> Nope, someone else will hack it, no need to donate to you.
> Also how do we know that you're actually able to hack the flashcart protection?



He isn't.


----------



## MystikEkoez (Oct 31, 2008)

DAX should make a custom firmware for DSi ;D
Just kidding. If the Wii can't have custom firmware, what's the chance of the DSi being able to have one?


----------



## chuckstudios (Oct 31, 2008)

MystikEkoez said:
			
		

> DAX should make a custom firmware for DSi ;D
> Just kidding. If the Wii can't have custom firmware, what's the chance of the DSi being able to have one?



The Wii can have custom firmware, but what's the point? IOS patches and such give you everything a "custom firmware" does on the PSP.


----------



## Noitora (Oct 31, 2008)

chuckstudios said:
			
		

> Noitora said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured as much.


----------



## ridgecity (Oct 31, 2008)

http://gizmodo.com/5072713/nintendo-dsi-bl...ted-flash-cards

Nothing works anymore.  time to reach for your wallet!


----------



## Noitora (Oct 31, 2008)

ridgecity said:
			
		

> http://gizmodo.com/5072713/nintendo-dsi-bl...ted-flash-cards
> 
> Nothing works anymore.  time to reach for your wallet!


It will probably be hacked eventually...


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

ridgecity said:
			
		

> http://gizmodo.com/5072713/nintendo-dsi-bl...ted-flash-cards
> 
> Nothing works anymore.  time to reach for your wallet!



Uhm, considering this whole thread has been about that very same subject don't you think you're a little late to the party with that one! lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




edit : lol The link in the article even takes you to this very thread!


----------



## Raven Darkheart (Oct 31, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> ridgecity said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im just LOL'ing at this level of paranoia going on in this thread now
most of us are 1 year away from getting the dsi. this level of paranoia is very stupid to say the least. so why dont we all calm down and give the guys time to figure all of this out


----------



## Rock Raiyu (Oct 31, 2008)

wait..no! The CycloDS failed? Very disappointing..but someone will probably hack it sooner or later..


----------



## Extreme Coder (Oct 31, 2008)

The responses about CycloDS are hilarious to say the least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



The CycloDS may be the best flashcard out there right now (although I say the AK series and SCOne are pretty close 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), it's still a flashcard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not made out of fairies and magic


----------



## Rayder (Oct 31, 2008)

The way I see it, there are no worries.   Just don't bother with a DSi if you want to use flashcarts.  Get a DSlite instead.  I'm considering buying another DSlite and keeping it in its box unopened (other than to verify no dead pixels and fully functional, blah, blah, blah) for if ever my current DSlite dies/breaks/quits (whatever) and Ninty stops producing them.

There are MILLIONS of DSphat and lites still out there.  Nintendo won't instantaneously kill them off and leave us in the dust.  They will still make DS games on carts, hackers will still dump them for download. Those will still work just fine on our old DS's.  Nothing will really change, except that the people who buy a DSi will be screwed for the flashcart luxury.....at least for a while.  Once the hackers figure out how to crack the DSi (like making the cart "look" like an official game initially to the DSi), everything will continue on like it's been doing for years now.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of the special DSi download content ends up at ROM sites for us to play on our old DS's eventually.

All Ninty is doing with the DSi is slowing down piracy a little.  They will NEVER completely stop it.   IF the DSi actually proves to be unhackable (without modding it internally) it probably won't sell as well since hackers and pirates wouldn't be interested in it.

So, like I said, no worries. As long as you still have your DS phat or lite, who cares what they do with the DSi.


----------



## pro2oman (Oct 31, 2008)

.. so the dsi is just a remodel of ds lite?????
i think i read that it was a new system that is backward compatible... 
like dsi plays dsi games and ds game but ds only plays ds games and not dsi games???

so is it a remodel or new system???


----------



## tbgtbg (Oct 31, 2008)

Rayder said:
			
		

> The way I see it, there are no worries.   Just don't bother with a DSi if you want to use flashcarts.  Get a DSlite instead.  I'm considering buying another DSlite and keeping it in its box unopened (other than to verify no dead pixels and fully functional, blah, blah, blah) for if ever my current DSlite dies/breaks/quits (whatever) and Ninty stops producing them.



That won't do you any good if the battery for the DS or DSLite you're keeping around just for the flashcart dies if/when they stop making replacement batteries. And stocking up isn't really an option, they don't last forever even if unused.


----------



## updowners (Oct 31, 2008)

pro2oman said:
			
		

> .. so the dsi is just a remodel of ds lite?????
> i think i read that it was a new system that is backward compatible...
> like dsi plays dsi games and ds game but ds only plays ds games and not dsi games???
> 
> so is it a remodel or new system???



It's a remodel like the dslite, sp, the micro, the pocket and the colour.


----------



## Ferrariman (Oct 31, 2008)

DS lite FTW


----------



## Fat D (Oct 31, 2008)

I think the DSi is a GBC... there might be some attractive exclusive titles, we will see. Not worth giving up a Lite though. Maybe I will buy a DSi and Pokémon Platinum when they come out here anyway.


----------



## Link5084 (Oct 31, 2008)

Can piracy EVER happen with the DSi? What will we do now? I THINK NINTENDO HAS OUTSMARTED US ALL!!!!


----------



## Noitora (Oct 31, 2008)

Link5084 said:
			
		

> Can piracy EVER happen with the DSi? What will we do now? I THINK NINTENDO HAS OUTSMARTED US ALL!!!!


Ughh...dammit what the heck's up with you, there's no console that's been hacked on it's first day release.


----------



## Kokorazashi (Oct 31, 2008)

Link5084 said:
			
		

> Can piracy EVER happen with the DSi? What will we do now? I THINK NINTENDO HAS OUTSMARTED US ALL!!!!



You clearly haven't thought alot if you think that. Because seriously. An open SD slot and you think that Nintendo has outsmarted us? If anything, people have been saying that it will make it *even easier* to hack. Maybe the whole idea of flashcarts is no longer needed, if what they do is make a custom firmware. Maybe Nintendo knows that it is going to be pirated, but instead of allowing flashcart companies making money of the market, killing them off with an SD card. So even if they do have pirates on the system, atleast people won't be exploiting that fact for profits.


----------



## Gore (Oct 31, 2008)

Link5084 said:
			
		

> Can piracy EVER happen with the DSi? What will we do now? I THINK NINTENDO HAS OUTSMARTED US ALL!!!!


Nintendo outsmarted you with every system they have ever created. You're not the one enabling homebrew. You are insignificant like the rest of us. Get over it, shut the _fuck_ up, crawl back into bed, and wait until we know if homebrew is possible or not. You will be told, you will not ask.


----------



## Dylan (Oct 31, 2008)

I barely have any interest left in playing DS but if the DSi (which I was planning to buy as my current lite is beginning to show signs of death) can't use my cyclo then I think Sony will finally win me over.


----------



## weiff (Oct 31, 2008)

SO we finally see the "i" is not for interactive it it for "I will screw you all again. love, Nintendo"

Seriously though, this was expected.  The new device has several distinct changes and and obviously would have patches to know security issues.  It is just like any other hardware... the new WH-iPods (pronounced why pods) had to be cracked again and again.  Firmware is firmware is firmware.  Everything has a hack somewhere.  Also the regioned factor means that the firmware is going to be similar to the Wii, crack for each region and then allow region free again (or reseter).  Anyway I ramble and this all very redundant at this point.


----------



## Banger (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh save us, we can not use our flash cart, how dare Nintendo not let us continue to use our means of pirating they should have left it as is so we could continue to drain money out of companies, and for this I think we should all not buy a DSi just because we have to wait for another way to play our pirated games, again HOW DARE YOU NINTENDO!!!


Do you people notice how silly you are sounding?


----------



## pesaroso (Oct 31, 2008)

"I will screw you all" ? Wtf are you talking about, weiff? Of course they want to keep pirates out..

Anyhow, anyone tried with the DS-X yet? How awesome would it be if the laughing stock of the flashcart market turned out to be the rescue.. xD


----------



## Heran Bago (Oct 31, 2008)

weiff said:
			
		

> SO we finally see the "i" is not for interactive it it for "I will screw you all again. love, Nintendo"


Yeah those fuckers trying to recoup the millions they've lost on IP theft who the hell do they think they are?


----------



## weiff (Oct 31, 2008)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> SO we finally see the "i" is not for interactive it it for "I will screw you all again. love, Nintendo"
> 
> Seriously though, this was expected.




Said with heavy sarcasm.... hence the _seriously_....


no further comments about the readers....


----------



## xJonny (Oct 31, 2008)

Were people expecting existing flashcards to work straight out of the box?


----------



## HBK (Oct 31, 2008)

pesaroso said:
			
		

> "I will screw you all" ? Wtf are you talking about, weiff? Of course they want to keep pirates out..
> 
> Anyhow, anyone tried with the DS-X yet? How awesome would it be if the laughing stock of the flashcart market turned out to be the rescue.. xD



Yeah, that would be awesome. xD


----------



## TrolleyDave (Oct 31, 2008)

xJonny said:
			
		

> Were people expecting existing flashcards to work straight out of the box?



You'd be surprised how many were!


----------



## BurlyEd (Oct 31, 2008)

I will not buy a DSi unless and until there is an EDGEi, EVOi or WHATEVERi.

and then ... just maybe.


----------



## Chief_Second (Oct 31, 2008)

.........am i the only one who's thinking - i'll buy this regardless and just have a old ds for flash cards, and new for original games? games in the uk are so cheap now 2nd hand - just need to be selective on the ones you buy!

most people haave a hacked wii for 'stuff', and 2nd wii for wifi - i do.


----------



## xJonny (Oct 31, 2008)

Decent games in the UK are not particularly cheap in any condition from retailers, really.


----------



## imyourxpan (Oct 31, 2008)

Someone is going to find a hack for the sd-slot and/or a solution to using are our flashcards.  I'm surprised they didn't do anything about this earlier.  Does anyone know if they will be releasing firmware updates like the psp, well like the ps3, wii, and x360?


----------



## iamanobody (Oct 31, 2008)

what happens when:
1. a DSi only game is put on the DS (nothing, error, etc.)
2. a DSi only game is dumped using a DS rom dumper (like Rudolph's)

also, many flashcarts have their bootstraps written on a flash so it can be reprogrammed even if there was never an update/program that did so


----------



## Gman 101 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow... wake up late on a Saturday morning to see this news O___O.
As one user on hacken.cc said, the best solution is just to use your current NDSL! There's not reason to justify getting a DSi. Or just wait out for an SD card slot hack.


----------



## Jayenkai (Oct 31, 2008)

Has anyone tried out a "It's not exactly official, but it's about as official as we can get" Datel Games'n'Music cart yet?  I still got one of those, and the sucker still plays everything that's worth playing! (JNKPlat*cough*Retro Collection*cough*Stringy Things*cough*)


----------



## skyman747 (Oct 31, 2008)

The SD Slot opens up too much, and with Flashcarts being blocked, CFW's are going to be developed much Faster.

Not to mention SD Cards are cheaper than MicroSD. 16GB Class 6 $40. MicroSD 16GB class 2 $90.


----------



## gizmo_gal (Oct 31, 2008)

Woe is us! Tragedy Hails from Japan! Darn those Nintendo Bastards to HECK for what they've tried to do to us!!!

JayenKai--thats a good ideal. I hadn't thought of that. Not that most people will care if it does work, it might give us a lead.


----------



## ChaosBoi (Nov 1, 2008)

Meh, I'm not surprised the DSi blocked flashcarts. Heck I'd be surprised if it didn't, considering how it's been a huge problem these days for Nintendo. I'm just hoping there's a way or a new exploit to allow backup games to be played. Only then will I get a DSi.


----------



## Fat D (Nov 1, 2008)

Chief_Second said:
			
		

> .........am i the only one who's thinking - i'll buy this regardless and just have a old ds for flash cards, and new for original games? games in the uk are so cheap now 2nd hand - just need to be selective on the ones you buy!
> 
> most people haave a hacked wii for 'stuff', and 2nd wii for wifi - i do.


I do not yet see a point in depriving h4x0r3d Wii systems of internet access yet - no bannings


----------



## GamerzInc (Nov 1, 2008)

Fat D said:
			
		

> Chief_Second said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed, having two wii's, one hacked and one isn't, especially to play online is pointless.  Nintendo isn't doing any bannings.


----------



## ENDscape (Nov 1, 2008)

WTH is a U2DS? New flashcarts i never seen before...


----------



## Kokorazashi (Nov 1, 2008)

skyman747 said:
			
		

> The SD Slot opens up too much, and with Flashcarts being blocked, CFW's are going to be developed much Faster.
> 
> Not to mention SD Cards are cheaper than MicroSD. 16GB Class 6 $40. MicroSD 16GB class 2 $90.



Dude, you can only use standard SD cards, not SDHC cards. So only 2GB allowed. But that isn't really a problem seeing as I can fit like 18 games on 2GB all of which are pretty good. They could possibly however, hack the firmware to read SDHC cards like what a few hackers did to the Wii (I can't remember what exactly it was called) to allow it to read SDHC cards. It was on the front page, Google it.


----------



## TrolleyDave (Nov 1, 2008)

Kokorazashi said:
			
		

> skyman747 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



According to the manual it's SDHC.  It's somewhere in this thread I think, or it could be the one in the Hardware and Utilities section.


----------



## Vulpes Abnocto (Nov 1, 2008)

*facepalm* 
Somehow I just knew this would happen, when I left this topic this morning. 
Please, people, just how long have you been sailing under the Black Flag? 
This is how it _always_ goes!
So Ninty took a shot at us, and they made a pretty darn good one. 
It happens.
Tomorrow, our highly intelligent and skilled cohorts begin their counterattack.
Our people don't have the resources to throw into this problem that Ninty does, of course, so you won't get your solution tomorrow, nor the next day, and most likely not even the day after that.  
But before long you'll see a topic around here saying something to the effect of:
"DSi working with homebrew - here's how!" 
Then our comrades will figure out how to make games work. Then flashcarts and hacktools will be distributed and cloned a hundred times over.
And then we'll have a whole new batch of deckhands coming in to ask "How does I maek the R4/M3/N5/Q420 wurk in mai DSi?"

Have some patience. 
It's a virtue higher than all others, I assure you.
Until then, sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.
You'll know _quite well_ when it's time to get your DSi.  

I deeply thank ahtin, and all the others who have made this information available to us, and I wish all those who take on the task of hacking out this problem all the luck in the world.


----------



## zidane_genome (Nov 1, 2008)

When the G6DS Real was tested, was it tested with both autoboot and non-autoboot?

It can be turned off in the Settings menu...


----------



## Luksy (Nov 1, 2008)

Doesn't work with dslinker, although given the fact that the firmware is updateable i doubt it'll take them long to crack it.


----------



## Rock Raiyu (Nov 1, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> Kokorazashi said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, on the actual box it says SDHC support so it handles 2GB+ space. and thats good cause SD cards are really cheap these days.


----------



## Scorpin200 (Nov 1, 2008)

Who really cares in a few year Nintendo will bring out a real hand held successor to the ds, and everyone would have long forgotten this thing.


----------



## neonix (Nov 1, 2008)

The DSi is a waste of time in my perspective. This doesn't affect me.


----------



## aaron_McNiven (Nov 1, 2008)

Meh... who cares really, im 100% sure within a few weeks there will be a new flashcart for it.
I wonder how much bigger the roms will be ... ...


----------



## tatumanu (Nov 1, 2008)

Theres only one good thing about the dsi in my view ... and that is good nintendo kick ass games to help sell it! And since all dsi games (except the download shop ones) will be compatible on the normal ds or ds lite it will keep my interess on the platform. Just hope a hacker manages to make it possible to play download shop games compatible with the older ds ... id like to play megaman 9 on my ds !


----------



## agentgamma (Nov 1, 2008)

ENDscape said:
			
		

> WTH is a U2DS? New flashcarts i never seen before...


Its a DSTT clone
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=110553


----------



## PanzerWF (Nov 1, 2008)

Time to stock up on DS and DSL.

I bet you DSi sales will be horrible if it truly is incompatible with flash carts.

Nintendo has just dug themselves into their own grave.

Mark my Halloween-tastic words.


----------



## Dylan (Nov 1, 2008)

PanzerWF said:
			
		

> Time to stock up on DS and DSL.
> 
> I bet you DSi sales will be horrible if it truly is incompatible with flash carts.
> 
> ...



Idiot. As if the majority of DS owners all have flash carts. Maybe put down your DS for a minute and you might learn a few things.


----------



## PW1337 (Nov 1, 2008)

There's still a long way before the DSi makes here to the US. Probably by then, someone will come out with a way to use flashcards, or a new flashcard compatible with the DSi might be around. 

Anyways, which do you think will be hacked first, the DSi or the PSP 3000?


----------



## Joe88 (Nov 1, 2008)

PW1337 said:
			
		

> There's still a long way before the DSi makes here to the US. Probably by then, someone will come out with a way to use flashcards, or a new flashcard compatible with the DSi might be around.
> 
> Anyways, which do you think will be hacked first, the DSi or the PSP 3000?


if I had to make a choice then the psp
alot of people are still hard at work on it


----------



## openchip (Nov 1, 2008)

ViRGE said:
			
		

> Raven Darkheart said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm around maybe I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




some clarifications:
1) not all flash cards have an processor, there i no direct need for one
2) SD cards are FASTER then DS ROMs, not slower
.

It would be VERY surprising if DS titles would have any access to the DSi hardware.
More likely that titles starting in DS mode will lockdown the DSi to DS mode very
much the same as GBA titles on DS lockout DS hardware. And DSi titles as signed. 
So the chance is real that the SD/Camera/Wifi will never be accessed by any homebrew.

Of course it is possible that N wasted many man years of development
and made another easy hack target device.


----------



## Miles (Nov 1, 2008)

PW1337 said:
			
		

> Anyways, which do you think will be hacked first, the DSi or the PSP 3000?



Early model PSP-3000s can already run the Pandora hack, but you'd need a custom firmware that works with the new screen, mic, etc.
The problem is that there are only a few of them, and the rest won't be hackable due to Sony having a IPL check that only allows their own signed IPLs. 
This means that Pandora's battery is dead, and there is next to nothing we can do about it.


----------



## Gerinych (Nov 1, 2008)

Test it with a Japanese Games 'n' Music (if such exists)


----------



## Narutomaki (Nov 1, 2008)

Sorry for the question, but I bought an DSi and is arriving next week, anyone knows if is compatible with Ninjapass X9?


----------



## LordMelkor (Nov 1, 2008)

It's nice to see Nintendo thwarting all flash carts on the DSi, I had thought the underground DS community was getting a little stagnant.


----------



## Densetsu (Nov 1, 2008)

xcdjy said:
			
		

> Hah hah hah hah hah, i'm rolling on the floor here. All those people who think CycloDS is unbreakable. . .
> 
> WRONG!, hm! (10 Forum Points To whoever gets the quote)


"Live or die, man?"
"Die..."

Karate Kid II

10 points, please


----------



## Pazuzu (Nov 1, 2008)

If they're running DSiWare to have full games downloadable to the SD card, surely there'll be some way to disguise ROMs as downloaded DSiWare games, like with installing channels on the Wii? I'm thinking of the first incarnation of popstation, where PSX ISOs were generally disguised as Hot Shot Golf 2.

Since DSiWare is entirely based off running games through the SD card slot, there have to be some provisions in either the firmware or the hardware to accommodate SD booting.


----------



## Xylexis (Nov 1, 2008)

I bet the DS-X still works hehe,
Rise up again my little DS-X flashcard!

Gr Xyl


----------



## 11gardir (Nov 1, 2008)

First, Nintendo is only going to lose a few thousand sales to flashcart owners, so don't expect them to back down.

Second, seeing as we won't be getting DSis for 8months-1year, there's not much point in worrying - it will be up to the japanese owners in the next few weeks to crack the console, but we actually can't be affected by it until then.

So just be patient...


----------



## AlexFili (Nov 1, 2008)

You know in the future all games will be sold digitally via a Steam-like service, so that no one will ever pirate again?

Oh well, that probably wont happen till 2012.


----------



## Law (Nov 1, 2008)

AlexFili said:
			
		

> You know in the future all games will be sold digitally via a Steam-like service, so that no one will ever pirate again?
> 
> Oh well, that probably wont happen till 2012.



You can still pirate games that are on Steam.

Digital Distribution is not an answer to piracy.


----------



## nephdj (Nov 1, 2008)

Law said:
			
		

> AlexFili said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also asian markets were 56k is still more popular then broadband.


----------



## cracker (Nov 1, 2008)

My 2 cents:
(Note that I didn't have time to read through the complete thread so excuse any redundant comments.)

I doubt that the DSi uses a whitelist with for each and every game before the DSi compatible titles were/are made. I speculate that it uses something more along the lines of making sure there is data that exists in a real cart located at an address where flash carts never have it. For instance the arm9.bin always starts with 3 0xe7ffdeffs in a row. I doubt any flash card has that because it is part of the secure area data on a commercial cart.

Also it probably won't be too long before a way is figured out to fake a DSi cart since it will just use some of the area of the header that has gone unused. Once a DSi game is dumped it won't take long.


----------



## kesadisan (Nov 1, 2008)

this is just
DSI Nightmare Halloween from Nintendo to World


----------



## openchip (Nov 1, 2008)

cracker said:
			
		

> My 2 cents:
> (Note that I didn't have time to read through the complete thread so excuse any redundant comments.)
> 
> I doubt that the DSi uses a whitelist with for each and every game before the DSi compatible titles were/are made. I speculate that it uses something more along the lines of making sure there is data that exists in a real cart located at an address where flash carts never have it. For instance the arm9.bin always starts with 3 0xe7ffdeffs in a row. I doubt any flash card has that because it is part of the secure area data on a commercial cart.
> ...



if N did it little better this time, then
a) dumping a DSi game gives nothing, looks regular but has signature applied to some part(s)
b) dumping the flash memory content from the DSi gives nothing (encrypted)


so it may be rather long to infinite til DSi mode homebrew will come,
again if N did antoher lousy job, it could be next week also

possible attacks: replacing DSi internal off chip RAM with RAM emulator and logger/analyzer
that may also yield to near 0 intel, if the ram access is encrypted itself
or, in worst case all RAM is place into the main asic, so it want be possible to access it at all

actually i wouldnt be suprised if the main ram and possible even flash are inside
the main asic or at least inside the MCP package, if that the case it may take
rather long to even get the plain text firmware being read out


----------



## ron555 (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi guys,

Here's my perspective on the DSi.  

Now, I love the DS quite a bit, so this is not a knock against Nintendo as a company, but I (personally) think they blew it with the DSi. Better hang onto your DS lites since it's going to be worth a fortune in the near future!


First, the GBA slot is gone. Sure, most people don't care, but there are some really awesome games like Metroid , Kirby , street fighter, etc etc.  Losing this functionality would mean I'd have to have something just as good.

Camera. Um, I think Nintendo really screwed up on this one.  Why in the world would I need a camera in my gaming device!?  And not only that, 2 cameras! I just don't get it.

Online shop - most mainstream gamers will appreciate this, but I for one have never and (probably) will never buy games from DS online unless they're reasonably priced.  Seeing as how the Wii VC games are overpriced, I don't expect this to happen.  I will continue to purchase carts like Zelda/Castlevania/Contra and support those companies who produce good games.

Bigger screen - I really do appreciate this.  I know I'm being selfish here, but I do wish they would of given us a little extra screen real estate for all the things we would give up DSi.  Still, I do like this.

SD card slot - this is great, but for what I'm not really sure at this point.  I (think) we already sort of have this feature with the CycloDS having SDHC compatibility. MicroSD is up to 8GB which IMO is worth it.

DSi (apparently) breaks all the Flashcarts, which seals the nail in DSi's coffin IMO.  I know it'll probably be hacked, but what Nintendo needs to understand is that not all of us are piraters.  I genuinely buy the games that I play and even there was NO POSSIBLE way to pirate them, I would STILL want something like a DS Flashcart for all the extra functionality, including (but not limited to):

1) Holding up to a gazillion carts on a 8gb microsd after being trimmed w/ Skinnyrom (best prog I've found)
2) Playing music/movies via moonshell
3) Able to cheat in game/real time saving with some games
4) Change backlight with control within game.
5) Other - read ebooks, etc ( I dont do this but I wanted to include it)
6) Other things I didn't mention.

Price: Now, I am more than willing to spend a little bit more $ for a superior product, but $180-190 (taxed) for a product that I percieve to offer me less?

This is why I think DSi won't be as big of a hit as the DS lite was.


----------



## Searinox (Nov 1, 2008)

1. Nintendo already let the devil in their house when they made the DSi SD-capable. One tiny hack and we'll never need flashcarts again.
2. Why would anyone want a DS which doesn't do GBA, can't run Quake2, and doesn't work with addons like the GH strap?


----------



## Deleted-119707 (Nov 1, 2008)

what about the flashcart that nintendo released in japan? would that still work? sorry i cant remember the name  of the cart XD


----------



## ViRGE (Nov 1, 2008)

openchip said:
			
		

> I'm around maybe I am
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This certainly invalidates point #2, and I always thought that the patching needed an on-board processor, hence #1.


----------



## arctic_flame (Nov 1, 2008)

openchip said:
			
		

> 2) SD cards are FASTER then DS ROMs, not slower



Define faster. 
Last time I checked, a DS card had a random access time in the microseconds range, whereas an SD card has random access times in the milliseconds range.

Edit: I've been ninja'd :|


----------



## ShadowXP (Nov 1, 2008)

The future of DS piracy/homebrew will either be a workaround enabling flashcards to work on the DSi, whether this is a hardware of firmware change, or a way of using the SD slot/flash memory to produce custom firmware and/or booting ROMs from an SD card. Personally, I can't wait to see what happens.


----------



## DjoeN (Nov 1, 2008)

I say!

Back to old school Flashcards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




You know those GBC/GBA flashcards, flash a singel game on it and the card acted like a real gamecard

Wel No flashcard for DS does that (not even those so called boot to game flashcards)

ok, that is in the thinking way of "IF it would be possible to do that)


----------



## openchip (Nov 1, 2008)

ViRGE said:
			
		

> openchip said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



be very careful to argue with me on technical grounds. be very careful. not that i havent been wrong ever.

there is response time requirement; here SD cards and NAND flash also are slower then _min_ latency DS rom reads
(SD cards are however fast enough usually to deliver data within DS rom _max_ latency window,
so SD card file can be mapped to DS rom directly, all DS reads will fetch from SD without the interface ever
having timeouts)

now, the DS rom vs SD speed is very easy to understand, DS rom interface is limited to about 7MByte/sec
reads, this is plain DATA TRANSFER overhead (bus clock * number of bits per clock)

SD cards can have DATA TRANSFER speeds up to 25MByte/sec (fastest speed 4bit * 50MHz)
and sustained read speeds over 10MByte/sec what is faster then DS rom data transfer overhead alone

so as of technical max speeds SD cards are faster under BEST conditions, fastest SD card, max
bus clock, and multi-sector read commands.

as of the processor, well all pathcing is done by "infected" roms, that is the loader patches
the roms during or after loading them to ram and before executing them. The processor
that executes the patches is either arm7 or arm9 on the DS itself.

if someone cares to compare my comments about those techno-details, then well all my
points have been and still are valid ASFAIK


----------



## kazuki_pl (Nov 1, 2008)

looking at the "not supported" xD flash cards list i must say one thing...

*GG Nintendo... you got us*


----------



## agentgamma (Nov 1, 2008)

nicky041192 said:
			
		

> what about the flashcart that nintendo released in japan? would that still work? sorry i cant remember the name  of the cart XD


Oh yeah!
Someone, test the DSVision =P
If possible, hack it! XD


----------



## ViRGE (Nov 1, 2008)

openchip said:
			
		

> *stuff*


Ahh, I see. That's exactly what I was interested in knowing. Thanks Openchip.


----------



## kazuki_pl (Nov 1, 2008)

agentgamma said:
			
		

> nicky041192 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




that may be possible actually @[email protected] if it boots at DSi it got something that can help flashcard producers make new ones working on DSi @@[email protected]@


----------



## cutterjohn (Nov 1, 2008)

So noone's cracked this open to check the hardware changes yet?  Like which ARM9 are they using now? Clocks? etc.


----------



## openchip (Nov 1, 2008)

cutterjohn said:
			
		

> So noone's cracked this open to check the hardware changes yet?  Like which ARM9 are they using now? Clocks? etc.



have you opened a DS or DSL ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




there is no arm9 or arm7 to be seen there, only 2 big IC's
1) N ASIC
2) RAM

there are some smaller support ic, but the digital core is only 2 IC
and it is possible that the RAM in DSi is also inside the ASIC (as MCP maybe)
so it could be 1 big IC less to see

the clock can also not derived from looking the PCB as it is derived
from some crystal using PLL

PS I have an broken DSL so I know whats inside 
(it doesnt turn on any more a led blinks and then silence)


----------



## Montspy (Nov 1, 2008)

Does they tested the game'n'music ?


----------



## Raqib12 (Nov 1, 2008)

Could you guys test the AKRPG?


----------



## Mentz (Nov 1, 2008)

Raqib12 said:
			
		

> Could you guys test the AKRPG?



It's useless...
No flash card works with DSi...

Maybe the future will be the SD slot...


----------



## Ferrariman (Nov 1, 2008)

Well, couldn't Flashcart makers make DSi version cards?


----------



## Raqib12 (Nov 1, 2008)

Mentz said:
			
		

> Raqib12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hopefully. It'd be nice to be able to use my SD card for something other than the Homebrew Channel


----------



## coolbho3000 (Nov 1, 2008)

What about the ARDS?


----------



## FaRReR (Nov 1, 2008)

Please excuse following message:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


----------



## DjoeN (Nov 1, 2008)

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/1101/nintendo.htm

Inside the DSi







More pictures on the link above


----------



## Uzumakijl (Nov 1, 2008)

Ferrariman said:
			
		

> Well, couldn't Flashcart makers make DSi version cards?
> 
> Hope that Cyclo do that....
> 
> QUOTE(coolbho3000 @ Nov 1 2008, 02:05 PM) What about the ARDS?



I hope that sh** never works other time ¬¬


And... Think this, PSP have SD slot, PSP Dont use flashcard, PSP can run ISO's from the SD, So sonner or later one guy are going to made something who lead us play roms from a SD, DSi even has come to USA so there is a lot of hope


----------



## armagedalbeebop (Nov 1, 2008)

R4\m3 simply failed? but how? they are like cockroaches THEY NEVER DIE


----------



## VISHI SO FISHI (Nov 1, 2008)

My dad is in China and Honk-Kong right now, he says people are selling DS'I in some shops, he says he will get me one,should i ask him too?


----------



## playallday (Nov 1, 2008)

VISHI SO FISHI said:
			
		

> My dad is in China and Honk-Kong right now, he says people are selling DS'I in some shops, he says he will get me one,should i ask him too?


Do you want a free Wii?  Yes you do!  Ask him!  And if hes in a nice mood ask him to give money to me.


----------



## Noitora (Nov 1, 2008)

VISHI SO FISHI said:
			
		

> My dad is in China and Honk-Kong right now, he says people are selling DS'I in some shops, he says he will get me one,should i ask him too?


Of course!


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Nov 1, 2008)

VISHI SO FISHI said:
			
		

> My dad is in China and Honk-Kong right now, he says people are selling DS'I in some shops, he says he will get me one,should i ask him too?


Well, if you can get a DSi just like that....Why not get it?!
I still think it looks really good with that matte finish......and fooling around with camera could be fun....
Downside is that you won't be able to get any of the DSware, it is region locked..


----------



## Rock Raiyu (Nov 1, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> VISHI SO FISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it you can't get any US DSiWare on a JP DSi. Didn't think it blocked it all together.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 1, 2008)

If you think about it the DSi is only checking for some sort of code on the original carts that flashcarts don't have, I know state the obvious. Might even be as simple as a string search. It won't take long to break it. All the flashcarts have to do is emulate it.


----------



## Treffner (Nov 2, 2008)

DS-X 'll probably WORK!!!!


----------



## konel01 (Nov 2, 2008)

who cares. by the time the DSi hits the US someone will have cracked it and we wont even need flash cards. we'll just run the "homebrew" off of the SD slot. i'll miss my R4. i had it so organized the way i liked it.


----------



## Toni Plutonij (Nov 2, 2008)

Raiyu245 said:
			
		

> Toni Plutonij said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I expressed myself wrong.....It's true what you wrote!


----------



## ryukyus (Nov 2, 2008)

I feel sorry for whoever imported this for 300 dollars  as far as i'm concern  i like my dslite, probably gonna take another year till people can actually  play homebrew, on  it, and dsi is not worth my money if you could talk via the camera with wifi connection,  it's the same thing for psp3000 even dark alex  can hack it to play homebrew, i'm just gonna a psp 2000.


----------



## acks45 (Nov 2, 2008)

I personally like my DSi, unfortunately i just dont have any games for it right now, but it is really cool.
the browser works charmingly and i dont think itll be a waste of money. however if your going to get one dont import one unless you speak japanese.  cause any DSi exclusive catridges and downloadable content will only be in japanese. my japanese isnt that good but its getting better every day.


----------



## agentgamma (Nov 2, 2008)

Treffner said:
			
		

> DS-X 'll NOT WORK!!!!
> fixed.
> You really think Nintendo would stop 15 different carts and IGNORE the DS-X?
> 
> ...


They should make a flashcart called:
Super Mario 64 DS
Nintendo


----------



## Heran Bago (Nov 2, 2008)

Treffner said:
			
		

> DS-X 'll probably WORK!!!!


Intriguing. Please elaborate.


----------



## agentgamma (Nov 2, 2008)

Heran Bago said:
			
		

> Treffner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you get it, you have
a) A crap camera
b) A crap music player
c) A great gaming system
d) Bragging rights

Also you could probably just use Japanese Wii Point Cards for the store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



eBay is your best bet for international pre paid cards like that


----------



## feds4u (Nov 2, 2008)

I've got one thing to say.....

*Flash-Cart-ageddon*

I am happy to see the DSi includes "gameboy camera style" functionality.  I always had a lot of fun with that device. For that reason alone I will upgrade to the DSi.


----------



## agentgamma (Nov 2, 2008)

feds4u said:
			
		

> I've got one thing to say.....
> 
> *Flash-Cart-ageddon*
> 
> ...


Isn't the DSi a downgrade?


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

Noitora said:
			
		

> I'm sure they'll come up with a way to hack it *hopefully*



I am not surprised considering the crackdown on R4 by nintendo you all should of saw it coming. But with the new features of the nintendo dsi hacking is no longer necessary same as with the PS3 which has so many built-in features that hacking is unnecessary. The DSi has downloadable games more RAM making the expansion pack obsolete, in addition music and video right out of the box via SD card now external flashcart storage obsolete. Plus a camera and an APP store which means that all homebrewers need to do to get their apps running is to utilize the DS store to port their apps to the DSi so now the only reason to hack the DSi is well need I say more ROMS!!! Since nintendo said it themselves :

"The president of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata has revealed to Nikkei Net that he has a hope that the new device (DSi) will become an integral part of everyday life for most people. Nintendo hopes that users will have the device on them a t all times and by downloading subway maps and other things, the DSi can certainly be useful for other things than games.

They want apps to be made for the DSi so hacking is no longer needed to get your homebrew anymore just learn how to develop apps without having to worry about getting through security in addition this DSi will SUPPORT 32GB SDHC CARDS!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kevenka (Nov 2, 2008)

I sense I spy


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

agentgamma said:
			
		

> feds4u said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not even close GBA IS DEAD THEIR GAMES ARE PLAYABLE ON AN EMULATOR ON THE PSP AND PC. WHY BOTHER WITH GBA.

In addition the DSi supports 32GB HCSD CARDS!!!!!!!!!!! and has WPA wi-fi ability and built-in web browser not really a downgrade when you compare this with a flashcart enabled DS lite. C'MON do your homework before bashing idiot but due to the app store's maturity don't throw out your flash cart as of yet wait till more advanced apps come to the DS app store before totally dumping your flashcart and DS-lite


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

kevenka said:
			
		

> I sense I spy



I am not a spy!!!! I am just giving you non biased info about the DSi and it's abilities vs flashcarts.


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

agentgamma said:
			
		

> Heran Bago said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




duh the DS isn't supposed to be a camera nor a music player that's what the iphone is for


----------



## Hehe Moo (Nov 2, 2008)

I guess this is a relief to some flashcart users?

Does anyone agree?

I mean flashcart users who DO NOT want a DSi anyway.


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

konel01 said:
			
		

> who cares. by the time the DSi hits the US someone will have cracked it and we wont even need flash cards. we'll just run the "homebrew" off of the SD slot. i'll miss my R4. i had it so organized the way i liked it.



DUDE THE DS APP STORE LETS YOU CREATE YOUR OWN APPS AND PORT THEM FROM HOMEBREW TO THE DS STORE WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY I KNOW SUCKS TO BE A USER BUT GREAT TO BE A DEVELOPER ESPECIALLY FOR HOMEBREW.


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

ryukyus said:
			
		

> I feel sorry for whoever imported this for 300 dollars  as far as i'm concern  i like my dslite, probably gonna take another year till people can actually  play homebrew, on  it, and dsi is not worth my money if you could talk via the camera with wifi connection,  it's the same thing for psp3000 even dark alex  can hack it to play homebrew, i'm just gonna a psp 2000.



not really the DS store has apps very similar to homebrew read this from nintendo themselves:

The president of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata has revealed to Nikkei Net that he has a hope that the new device (DSi) will become an integral part of everyday life for most people. Nintendo hopes that users will have the device on them a t all times and by downloading subway maps and other things, the DSi can certainly be useful for other things than games.


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

nephdj said:
			
		

> Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YEAH but you forgot one thing they make up such a small percentage of their consumer base that it would be more profitable to just cut them off and dump them as they aren't needed to make money while the ones with broadband will still buy the games the way I see it they will not only sell games exclusively digitally but they could care less about dial-up users who are too broke to buy games anyway!!!


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

ron555 said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> 
> Here's my perspective on the DSi.
> 
> ...



well you do realize that you already CAN do all those things the online games are stored on the SD card and ebooks also


----------



## qjopera (Nov 2, 2008)

openchip said:
			
		

> ViRGE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


correction port the homebrew to the DS online store then make money for it and you can easily access the SD and WIFI plus the SD is for storage of apps. FYI nintendo has no intention of banning home brew read this:

The president of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata has revealed to Nikkei Net that he has a hope that the new device (DSi) will become an integral part of everyday life for most people. Nintendo hopes that users will have the device on them a t all times and by downloading subway maps and other things, the DSi can certainly be useful for other things than games.


----------



## cracker (Nov 2, 2008)

Nintendo is not opening up the system to homebrew programmers. Sure there may be a few titles that Nintendo wants but it's not like they are going to go out and seek homebrew games from individuals. There will be plenty of content (VC being the majority) for the DSi just as there is for the Wii -- enough so that Nintendo won't feel there is a need to go out of their way to find more. Also Nintendo would require that their devkit was used so either the dev would have to purchase it themself or come to some sort of agreement where Nintendo got control over the development. It's not as simple as it is with a flash cart where someone makes something, posts it online, and people download it and play. It will be up to Nintendo what things will see the light of day on their store. Take into consideration the Wii. The only WW title that I have seen that was a homebrew game is Defend Your Castle. I don't expect anything different from the DSi. Nintendo is in the money making business -- not the help-a-homebrewer-get-published business.


----------



## tellytubby (Nov 2, 2008)

couldnt you just put all the info from things like r4ds and the like  on to the sd and play it from there
it seems logical enough


----------



## GhostSonic (Nov 2, 2008)

tellytubby said:
			
		

> couldnt you just put all the info from things like r4ds and the like  on to the sd and play it from there
> it seems logical enough


That doesn't even make sense.


----------



## cracker (Nov 2, 2008)

GhostSonic said:
			
		

> tellytubby said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Better still is that they used their first post on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And to answer the original question: No, the R4 (or any other) loader will not run from an SD cart inserted into the DSi. Everything that will be capable of running off of the SD card will need to be encrypted and signed just as on the Wii.


----------



## 2128 (Nov 2, 2008)

tellytubby said:
			
		

> it seems logical enough


I don't think you even know what logic is.


----------



## agentgamma (Nov 2, 2008)

xcdjy said:
			
		

> 2128 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its funny because its true XD


----------



## alex (Nov 2, 2008)

Anyone try the DSVision? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's like... better yet Google it!


----------



## golden (Nov 2, 2008)

Destructobot said:
			
		

> Any solution will likely require new flashcarts or a hack for the DSi firmware. AFAIK, most (all?) flashcarts do not allow the bit of code that boots them up to be overwritten, so this could not be fixed by an update to the flashcart's software.


exactly, this man knows what he is talking about. 

AFAIK, there will be no way to change flash cart firmware to fix this issue. The only possibility and that is still a possibility is a new custom firmware for the DSi similar to flashme in the old days.


----------



## iamanobody (Nov 2, 2008)

#1: stop complaining
#2: stop speculating about the sd slot
#3: stop speculating about DSiWare
#4: read http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm
#5: form a hypothesis
#6: repeatedly test and form new hypotheses using the scientific method
#7: document what you have discovered
---------------------------------------------------------
What happens when:
1. a DSi game is put into a DS (nothing/error/etc.)
2. a DSi game is dumped using a DS rom dumper (like Rudolph's)
3. you sniff the transfers between a DSi and a (real) DS cart

Many of the bootstraps for flashcarts are on a flash, which can be rewritten. There may not be a tool/update that does so, but it can be done.


----------



## Canonbeat234 (Nov 3, 2008)

*I TOLD YOU! *





 I'm told you that Nintendo is going to do this. Look at the R4DS right now, Nintendo did the smart thing to do this. Now we can't do nothing more but use the DS and DS Lite. Its such a shame but true. 

I knew this was going to happen and now I must treasure my DS for the fact that it can still work on my R4.


----------



## dan92 (Nov 4, 2008)

have you tryed with acekard?


----------



## Dr_dre (Nov 4, 2008)

what about the browser that the dsi has .. can a faulty jpg/flash/asp/html(buffer overflow/underun)run external content ?


----------



## FaRReR (Nov 5, 2008)

Dr_dre said:
			
		

> what about the browser that the dsi has .. can a faulty jpg/flash/asp/html(buffer overflow/underun)run external content ?


That's all we can wish for.


----------



## Jran Sakarra (Nov 6, 2008)

It will not be long till we might not need flash carts for the DSi.
Just like the PSP a firmware hack will be out I think.


----------



## Hedgehogofchaos (Nov 11, 2008)

I don't know alot about the DSi, but I'm just wondering if original ds games are region locked by the DSi.  If so the flashcards may be of a different region then the Japanese DSi. Please correct me if this is not possible.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2008)

Original DS games are NOT region locked on the DSi.


----------



## k'2 (Nov 11, 2008)

what i want to know will dsi have games that will work only on it or it's just another ds

if it like it's another ds then screw the camera and sd slot>>>>(  i don't have any ds and going to buy a one but dunno which to buy ds lite or ds i)


----------



## fgghjjkll (Nov 12, 2008)

no....i dont think so.....i think that the dsi's libfat will be alot different from the ds's libfat.......thats my opinion.....


----------



## Crozone (Nov 16, 2008)

It has been confirmed that the "region lock" does not actually seem to be active, or even implimented on the DSi when booting standard DS games. Several forums say that they have tried USA, Japan, and Asia - Pacific region cards on the DSi without any errors. 

Also, the reason the CycloDS is different to other flashcards is because is has a built in firmware chip, rather than booting off the microSD. The Edge, even though it is a CycloDS clone, still boots off the MicroSD.


----------



## Crozone (Nov 16, 2008)

The DS has a built in software update tool... Is there any chance of somehow downloading the update, modifying it, and patching it into the DSi? (This is what I did With my Wii using the Twilight Hack)


----------



## thermaltake (Nov 17, 2008)

Take a look at this guys real or fake make up your own mind, let me know your thoughts http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2dge0VGOugQ


----------



## Xanthos (Nov 21, 2008)

It's only a matter of time once they are released in the U.S. for someone to hack the hardware.  Once the person who does this comes up with the update, it will likely be loadable into your flash card, and it will work fine.

I've had a 1st gen DS for the longest time and was considering waiting for the DSi, but if it doesn't have GBA compatibility and can't run flash cards whatsoever, I might rethink the matter, as I'm sure a lot of other people will.  They might lose a hefty chunk of sales if that's the case.  I have no intention of buying yet ANOTHER flash card and essentially pouring $250 into a lousy handheld, so here's hoping something can be done.  Hopefully there will be a way to disable the region lock as well.

Nintendo is being a real dick towards us modders, aren't they?

And Sakarra, I don't think flash carts will be replaced any time soon, considering you can't do much with a lousy 256MB of hard drive space.


----------



## blckthrn2k8 (Nov 22, 2008)

Hey guys! Did you know that the CycloDS Evolution already works for the DSi? There's still some things that needs to be tested but the fact that it works is there! LOL... http://www.cyclopsds.com/cgi-bin/cyclods/engine.pl 

There is also a video demo in the website.

If anyone already knew about this then my bad. lol!

Woohoo can't wait!!!


----------



## spotanjo3 (Nov 22, 2008)

blckthrn2k8 said:
			
		

> Hey guys! Did you know that the CycloDS Evolution already works for the DSi? There's still some things that needs to be tested but the fact that it works is there! LOL... http://www.cyclopsds.com/cgi-bin/cyclods/engine.pl
> 
> There is also a video demo in the website.
> 
> ...



LOL!

We already know about that.


----------



## blckthrn2k8 (Nov 22, 2008)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> LOL!
> 
> We already know about that.



Hehe sorry bout that. Me and my buds just recently saw the announcement TC made xD lol


----------



## Romz127 (Nov 23, 2008)

If the dsi can transfer save files (which i highly doubt) they would make a hacked save file to some game that you open to add hacked firmware files so it will override the dsi so it would allow all flashcarts (almost like the homebrew channel)


----------



## Xanthos (Nov 24, 2008)

blckthrn2k8 said:
			
		

> Hey guys! Did you know that the CycloDS Evolution already works for the DSi? There's still some things that needs to be tested but the fact that it works is there! LOL... http://www.cyclopsds.com/cgi-bin/cyclods/engine.pl
> 
> There is also a video demo in the website.
> 
> ...



Oh dang, I just read the main post, which said Cyclo DIDN'T work with it.  Well thank God for that!  Might get it after all... and the cool thing is we can still play GBA games on it thanks to emulators XP


----------



## Narin (Nov 24, 2008)

Folks, at this stage in time,a  custom firmware is not possible! Nintendo has used strong encryption, we are talking about government grade encryption and digital signatures here to prevent people from tampering with the system files and firmware. So don't expect any custom firmware soon without a hardware mod to the DSi.


----------



## michelkok1 (Jan 5, 2009)

yow i have a question..
if i import a dsi from japan or something will i be able to set the language to english??


----------



## Maikel Steneker (Jan 5, 2009)

michelkok1 said:
			
		

> yow i have a question..
> if i import a dsi from japan or something will i be able to set the language to english??


You won't. The DSi can play European and American DS games, but DSiWare games are region locked and the firmware is Japanese only.


----------



## michelkok1 (Jan 5, 2009)

is there any already working and updateable flashcart??


----------



## u r me (Jan 8, 2009)

I herd that the makers of the ttds is makeind 1 that works with the dsi 
dont do this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol!


----------



## Cascade (Mar 25, 2009)

So, what about the *DSTTi* and the *AceKard 2i*
*Youtube Links
Do these actually work how they should/ as shown?

And why do so many prefer CycloDS and R4 over M3 Real/Sakura?

Appologies for reviving dead topic, didnt check the last date untill after posting - found thread via google >.


----------



## GreenBanana (Apr 16, 2009)

I'll buy a DSi just as soon as flash carts are guaranteed to work for it.


----------

