# best way to learn Japanese



## test84 (Jun 28, 2007)

so what do u recommend for learning each?
thnx in advance.


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## xcalibur (Jun 28, 2007)

The pimsleur japanese course is a great way to start learning the language. Its many audio tracks in the form of lessons going up in difficulty.
I have never used them but my friend thinks theyre very great


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## ssoccerh (Jun 28, 2007)

japanese would be a great thing to learn  i wish i had the time


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## fischju_original (Jun 28, 2007)

Rosetta stone, it's expensive, I suggest you torrent it


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## nileyg (Jun 28, 2007)

I've used Pimsleur and it seemed pretty good, is Rosetta Stone any better?


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## fischju_original (Jun 28, 2007)

I would say so


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## Gus122000 (Jun 29, 2007)

i have a book called "kanji pict-o-graphix" i used that book to learn my hiragana and katakana it worked great.it has pictures with items similar to the kanji to help you remember........and by god that works.Best book i ever bought to help me learn japanese


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## Linkiboy (Jun 29, 2007)

I have a question, in everyday writing, is both kana and hiragana used in the same sentence? I'm thinking of learning some basic Japanese, mostly Katakana and a few kanji...


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## AishunBao (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(Linkiboy @ Jun 28 2007 said:


> I have a question, in everyday writing, is both kana and hiragana used in the same sentence? I'm thinking of learning some basic Japanese, mostly Katakana and a few kanji...



You mean kanji and hiragana? Then hell yes. Hiragana is a type of kana. o.o

And just katakana and a little bit of kanji won't get you further than a very rough understanding of what's going on, but it's a good start.


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## Mewgia (Jun 29, 2007)

If you want to use Rosetta Stone, first check your library's site to see if it has it for free. Mine has it, it's under the "travel" section I beleive.


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## Linkiboy (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(AishunBao @ Jun 28 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Linkiboy @ Jun 28 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question, in everyday writing, is both kana and hiragana used in the same sentence? I'm thinking of learning some basic Japanese, mostly Katakana and a few kanji...
> ...


So, I should first larn Kanji and Hiragana? Hiragana is symbols for sounds like katakana, not for object like kanji right?


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## Lukeage (Jun 29, 2007)

Hiragana and Katakana are where you need to start. I've noticed some games only use these because children don't have a full grasp of kanji. (Side note, in the new zelda game, if you click on the kanji it brings up the furigana, which i though was the sweetest thing about the game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

Once you've got them nailed, since they are more akin to learning an alphabet, then you can really start on the kanji. You'll need them to look up the readings of the kanji in most dictionaries anyway.


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## butaro (Jun 29, 2007)

I dont know "THE" best way do you want to speak , do you want to read, do you want to do both?? I went for full on so heres how i learned.

First i studied Hiragana then Katakana, then after learning those i started on a grammar textbook, which was written in all hiragana and katakana, which helped me remember and review the kana's. If i ever had a problem with a specific character i just went back to hiragana/katakana book and checked it, after a while i didn't have to do that anymore. I would reccomend a book called "Remembering the Kana" for kana study, its really weird and at first might not seem to work but it works. My total kana study was 1 month, i studied almost every day, i dont remember how long each day maybe 1 hour somedays, more other days.

As far as grammar textbooks go there are tons of them out there, i went with one that a lot of people recommended me and since the japanese was written all in kana it makes it easier to distinguish from romaji (abc's). The explainations were in english and there was literal translations of the sentences to help out.

Edit: some more comments..
You might hate kanji but it sure as hell helps, imagine reading an english sentence with no spaces. That is what japanese is like with no kanji.
I suggest staying away from kanji until you are able to write/read the kana's and actually use the words for some of the basic kanji in a sentence. Numbers for instance.


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## moshii (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(Lukeage @ Jun 29 2007 said:


> Once you've got them nailed, since they are more akin to learning an alphabet, then you can really start on the kanji. You'll need them to look up the readings of the kanji in most dictionaries anyway.



The ??? are not an alphabet.


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## moshii (Jun 29, 2007)

The best way to learn Japanese would relate to what you want to use it for; for example the text books will teach you "State Language" i.e long structures like 「行かなければならないんです」instead of 「行かなきゃ」. The best books for learning how to commnicate would be the Japanese for Busy People series from AJaLT. Get the kana ones. For normal Japanese get into reading Manga raws... but don't expect it to be a quick process.


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## butaro (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(moshii @ Jun 29 2007 said:


> The best way to learn Japanese would relate to what you want to use it for; for example the text books will teach you "State Language" i.e long structures like ???????????????instead of ???????. The best books for learning how to commnicate would be the Japanese for Busy People series from AJaLT. Get the kana ones. For normal Japanese get into reading Manga raws... but don't expect it to be a quick process.


hehe i used the first and 2nd book of that series and its pretty good for self study so i second that! 

I would suggest learning proper grammar first, then later changing to casual is as easy as snapping your fingers. But yea, it depends on what you want to be using it for.


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## Lukeage (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(moshii @ Jun 29 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Lukeage @ Jun 29 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Once you've got them nailed, since they are more akin to learning an alphabet, then you can really start on the kanji. You'll need them to look up the readings of the kanji in most dictionaries anyway.
> ...



I never said they were, i said they are 'more akin to learning an alphabet', ie Once I know hiragana, I can 'spell' out any Japanese word using it without needing to know the kanji.

For those that are curious a very rough breakdown of what each type of kana is used for:
Kanji - Meaning of the word
Hiragana - Grammar
Katakana - Foreign words

These aren't entirely strict though. For example, there are some words which contain no kanji and are written entirely in hiragana, and katakana is sometimes used for other reasons, such as onomatopoeia (sound words).

Before I comment further, I was learning at uni, so I had teachers/classmates/resourses/etc.. at my disposal so I can't give too much help on exactly what works well as my textbooks relied on the fact that I had a native japanese speaker to clarify some of the finer points (My textbooks were Situational Functional Japanese Vol 1-3 Drills and Notes, so 6 textbooks all up there, and some kanji book which relied heavily on being in use in a full blown course, sorry can't remember the name of it right now, but was something like Basic/Intermediate Kanji Drills....)

To extend butaro's comments, combine multiple things. Pimsleur is great for learning conversational Japanese, but doesn't teach much in the way of grammar and obviously doesn't teach any writing what-so-ever. Rosetta Stone, as people have mentioned here, appears to be great for learning words, perhaps someone with more exposure could verify this. Remembering the Kana/Kanji are a great series which definitely should be looked into.

Once you have a grounding, find something interesting (anime/manga/video games/movies/tv/whatever) and work with that. Don't pit yourself against something too difficult to begin with though. Choosing a lengthy JRPG probably isn't the best way to get started as you will be looking up Kanji on many words to begin with.

Note: You'll need to learn radicals for looking up Kanji, but don't get ahead of yourself.

Anyway, I could ramble on. I haven't been actively learning japanese for a while now so I'm a bit rusty, but hopefully you'll get something from this.

Edit: Japanese for Busy People - My university uses these for their 'Japanese for Business' courses, which are a cut down versions of the full blown Japanese course.


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## butaro (Jun 29, 2007)




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## moshii (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(Lukeage @ Jun 29 2007 said:


> For those that are curious a very rough breakdown of what each type of kana is used for:
> Kanji - Meaning of the word
> Hiragana - Grammar
> 
> ...



The Japanese names for these books translates "Japanese for the pupose of communication", which is exactly what they teach.
If you get hardcore into Japanese you should get some of the advanced books published under the power japanese series, published by tuttle now, these will make your brain explode.


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## warbird (Jun 29, 2007)

I hated Japanese for busy people. Best book ive used so far, is the Genki series from Japan Times.  Then theres japanesepod101.com, which provides free podcasts, with native speakers, so its nice for practising listening. Best way is to live there tho. I've lived in Japan for more than 2 years, and I still dont consider myself fluent. So just a warning, learning Japanese (or any language really) is a long term project. Dont give up


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## Lukeage (Jun 29, 2007)

QUOTE(moshii @ Jun 29 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Lukeage @ Jun 29 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > For those that are curious a very rough breakdown of what each type of kana is used for:
> ...



As I said, those were very rough explanations, I'm sure someone with a better focus on linguistics could give a much better explanation as to what their functions are directly. That said, inflection and particles (other than the basic spelling of words, which often get changed anyhow) are the main areas where hiragana is used, hence my associating them with grammar.

As for the book, I've personally never seen them. My university's japanese business course is only 2 sessions in length, and as far as I know has its primary focus on vocal communications rather than writing.


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## test84 (Aug 24, 2007)

got Remeber the Kanji for learning Kanji, as recommended, cant believe how bad a book can be.

any better way to learn Kanji?


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## Awdofgum (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't know if this was mentioned, but the best way to learn japanese is to Live in japan for about 2-3 years. Depends how fast you pick up.

Edit: BTW Linkiboy your inbox is full.


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## Linkiboy (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah, print out kanji's on a sheet (the WHOLE SHEET for one character) and stare at it until it is burned into your eyes.


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## Linkiboy (Aug 25, 2007)

THAT WAS NOT AN EDIT and yes its full w/e


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## Awdofgum (Aug 25, 2007)

QUOTE(Linkiboy @ Aug 24 2007 said:


> THAT WAS NOT AN EDIT and yes its full w/e



Sorry. Well i was trying to tell you that i don't know what i could do in exchange.


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## Retal (Aug 25, 2007)

I used freeware, lol.


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## test84 (Aug 26, 2007)

how's Kanji_Sonomama_Rakubiki_Jiten ?


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## Jarvik7 (Aug 29, 2007)

You think Remembering the Kanji is bad? It is an awesome book with a huge following and community on the internet. The only thing it requires is DEDICATION, since the Kanji are ordered in the most efficient manner for memorizing, not in the order of difficulty or frequency. So go at it for 30 minutes to an hour per day for a few months and you'll have all the jouyou Kanji under your belt. It's really not that hard. I've never heard of anyone actually learning all jouyou Kanji from a different book.

One of the major communities is kanji.koohii.com if you're willing to give it another chance.


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## test84 (Sep 3, 2007)

since there are some J people back here, I would like to ask them best way to learn Kanjis.
I know most of Hiragana and have no problem at Katakana, but i started Kanjis at some points and each of them had different reading and meaning!
Is there anyway to categorize all 6 or 7 of their reading and meaning? all of them are necessary?

plz state they ways that worked for you, not the ones that you heard that r good.

thnx.


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## kikuchiyo (Sep 3, 2007)

Kanji sonomaamaa is no help to you if you aren't already reading.  It's pretty much just a dictionary (it has some other features, but I only started using it when I took Level 4 Japanese and was reading real articles and such with kanji I didn't know).  Plus it takes stroke order into account when it looks up kanji, so you should have some idea how to write kanji you don't know.

Far more helpful for beginner:s is a Japanese cellphone with a camera text reader.  My latest phone has that - you can take pictures of the kanji and then look it up via the phone's dictionary.  au's w52ca has that feature (and the model above it), which is the phone I have.

You're not going to learn real Japanese from manga or anime (the only exceptions that come to mind are azumanga daiou).  They use too many weird words that don't actually come up in conversation.  You need a text book.  As mentioned already in this thread, Genki is awesome (written by my professsors at Kansai Gaidai).  You need a native speaker.  Beginner's will be fine with anyone with a high school eduacation, but after a year or two you will need some one who actually knows the ins and outs of the language.

Kanji can carry several different pronunciations and readings (usually at least a Chinese and Japanese reading - the Japanese reading is usually for simpler words and Chinese for compounds - tomo, in tomodachi, for example, is the yuu in yuujin, which is considered a more educated word - it's like Latin and German origin words in English).  The only recourse is to study and have a book and teacher that will tell you the most common readings.  Again, Genki has an excellent kanji section.


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## kikuchiyo (Sep 3, 2007)

I forgot about it, but if there is ANYWAY you can get your hands on Irasshai, a Georgia public television program, do it.  It starts off with the basics, including kana, and makes them easy to remember.  Between my friends and that I learned most of Japanese 101 before I took the class.

As for written Japanese, the uses of the two kana syallabaries and kanji, it really depends on the writer.  Hiragana tends to be used for grammar, but is often used in other situations - there are a few words with no kanji (though less then you might think - most words usually have a kanji counterpart - tabako is usually spelled out these days, but there is kanji.  Ditto BeiKoku for America, though America is most usually spelled out in katakana).  Some people use hirgana more, either because they don't know the kanji (so writing in large amounts of hiragana looks uneducated), to make it easier for foreigners to read, or because it seems more girly (hiragana, as a curvy writing is considered less masculine that katakana).  Some girls, especially don't have kanji for their given names and so use hiragana.

Kanji tends to be used for ideas - nouns, verbs, and adjectives.  Especially for the latter two they have some hiragana at the end to denote their function.

Katakana is used for foreign words, yes, but also in a few other circumstances.  Often, in advertisments and CMs katakana will be used for normal words, as it is considered more attention getting.  Japanese people will also often write katakana in long sentences with a lot of hiragana to break up different words (you can often see this in games and novels).  The same word may be written in hiragana a few lines down.  Onomanpetia is also often, but not always, written in katakana.  Finally katakana can also act as an "idea" like kanji - the verb saboru, for example, comes from sabotage and the sabo are often written in katakana and the ru in hiragana (incidentally, the only meaning it carries in Japanese is to skip work or class).  Katakana is usually also used to denote the onyomi, or Chinese reading of a kanji in dictionaries.


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## test84 (Sep 7, 2007)

found this program http://nds.zoelen.net/
gonna try it and see how good it is, its for learning Kana, hope it was for Kanji too.


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## T-hug (Sep 7, 2007)

Hey test that url is broken!


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## test84 (Sep 7, 2007)

shoot, i downloaded about 694kb of 1.3mg and then the site went down! 
sheat! : |
the one in download section of GBAtemp is kinda old, but i'm getting it.

i was actually thinking of making a thread for Kanji and review/suggest the commercials and homebrews made for this purpose.

and last but not least, i wanna thank kikuchiyo for his/her precious time and effort, i have to read ur comments more times and i'll answer to them.

edit: here has it http://www.dev-fr.org/index.php/topic,1252.0.html 
but the problem is that since i have a slot-2 device, i think i'll need its SuperCard version.

its strange that its 1.2 is 1.5mg and its 1.27 is 3.9 mg!

it seems to be a good program, wish there was same thing for Kanji, i found one commercial game for Kanji but it needed that you know japanese at some level. does anyone knows good Kanji homebrew/commercial? maybe i'll start its topic today.

edit : the link provided has all the .NDS , .SC.NDS and .GBA of 1.27 version (final).

what is this .gba file they inculde? is it for GBA Movie Plyaer?

edit: as i gussed, i had to use the SuperCard version for my G6, but it wasnt using DLDI (is it because it used PALIB?).
and in 10seconds that i messed with it, i didnt get what i should do. will update.


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## Jarvik7 (Sep 9, 2007)

QUOTE(kikuchiyo @ Sep 2 2007 said:


> You need a text book.Â As mentioned already in this thread, Genki is awesome (written by my professsors at Kansai Gaidai).



Haw, I was also at Kansai Gaidai until last may. Level 5 R&W/Speaking.


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## Raisingod (Sep 20, 2007)

QUOTE(kikuchiyo @ Sep 2 2007 said:


> You need a text book.Â As mentioned already in this thread, Genki is awesome (written by my professsors at Kansai Gaidai).



Mina no Nihon Go is also very nice . Though both set would only get you to JLPT level 3 . after that you need to start working hard with readings, grammer dictionaris and newspapaers ( a must for JLPT1 and in the last years it start to move into JLPT 2 )


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## Jarvik7 (Sep 20, 2007)

Good point with the readings, however you should really start trying to use what you study from the very beginning. Children's books etc are suitable for a beginner.

And for the love of god don't rely on JUST manga. You'll end up speaking like an unintelligible freak. Manga dialogue is NOT natural speech so use it only for reading comprehension. The same applies to listening to dialogue (either written, in a book, or a real speaking partner) of the opposite gender. You don't want to be a girly talking man or a manish woman.


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## test84 (Sep 20, 2007)

plz provide stuff that i can get their pdfs or are available at Japan's embassy.
they dont have children books there and i couldnt find those on PDFs.


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## Jarvik7 (Sep 22, 2007)

The one time I went to the Japanese embassy here they had plenty of children's reading materials in the waiting room, but I doubt they'd like people taking it home. There is always Amazon.jp etc. If you live near one of the few Bookoff stores in North America, that is a jackpot. Tons of used Japanese books at cheap prices.

I studied Japanese on the side before majoring in it, so by the time I started reading for practice/enjoyment I was beyond children's material (which I now find annoying due to lack of kanji). Currently I use Japanese videogames (my R4 has no english games on it), Japanese websites & social networking sites (mixi), and correspondence with Japanese people for reading & writing practice. It's not really enough, but I don't have the time required to start reading novels (in English OR Japanese).


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## butaro (Oct 12, 2007)

Kanji Kentei 2 (Name shortened, you can search it if you want..)
I've been using the first version for a couple months and just changed to 2nd one today after seeing a commercial for it. It is very good. It now contains a kanji dictionary with stroke count and readings. Really useful, when you make a mistake you can check the dictionary. 
Not for beginners though.

Ukkari o Nakusou, Bunshou Yomi Training
I really didnt know what to expect of this but its kind of like reading training, how fast you can read a sentence then react to it with some questions, there is furigana everywhere so its not really that hard, i havent seen a word i dont understand yet so its pretty good!
Still again beginners could possibly play this game but must be able to read kana.


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## Jarvik7 (Oct 12, 2007)

Ukkari o Nakusou, Bunshou Yomi Training is not really a reading training application despite the name. The questions are more grammar based than reading comprehension. It is actually pretty basic, so probably good for second year Japanese students. I haven't used it for long enough to see how hard it gets though.


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## test84 (Oct 12, 2007)

i think good children games, like under 7 or 8 years old games are cool.


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## butaro (Oct 13, 2007)

QUOTE(Jarvik7 @ Oct 12 2007 said:


> Ukkari o Nakusou, Bunshou Yomi Training is not really a reading training application despite the name. The questions are more grammar based than reading comprehension. It is actually pretty basic, so probably good for second year Japanese students. I haven't used it for long enough to see how hard it gets though.


Did you take the ranking? I asked a japanese friend to try it and they scored the 2nd highest, I scored 2nd lowest but i agree at the moment its too easy, and its a daily thing so wont know for a few more days at least ......


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