# Settlement in George Hotz Case



## Rock Raiyu (Apr 11, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Joint Statement
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> Sony Computer Entertainment America (“SCEA”) and George Hotz (“Hotz”) today announced the settlement of the lawsuit filed by SCEA against Hotz in federal court in San Francisco, California. The parties reached an agreement in principle on March 31, 2011. As part of the settlement, Hotz consented to a permanent injunction.
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Playstation

Finally its over now we can move on with our lives.


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## Nujui (Apr 11, 2011)

So, what really happened? Is this thing finally over?


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## Schlupi (Apr 11, 2011)

Finally. We all knew he would be fine in the end.

Now stop giving him money for vacations, people.


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## Recorderdude (Apr 11, 2011)

It appears that Hotz did NOT win, but he "got off easy". He's not paying sony anything and all he's doing is removing the keys from his site that have been posted everywhere else on the net anyway. 

Not exactly a victory like the Iphone hacking case was, but at least it wasn't a huge loss.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

In short: Sony had no legal ground to stand on, but had the money to bury Hotz in legal proceedings.
God Bless America.


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## purechaos996 (Apr 11, 2011)

So it was basically a tie. Sony got what they wanted which was to slap around the community to make a impression, and hotz didnt go to jail or forced to pay a huge amount of money to sony. 

So it was basically pointless.


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## Recorderdude (Apr 11, 2011)

purechaos996 said:
			
		

> So it was basically pointless.


well, not exactly. TONS of money was wasted too!

God Bless America indeed.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

I wonder what this means for the future.


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## The Pi (Apr 11, 2011)

For fu~

Waste of time and money. -_-


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## Recorderdude (Apr 11, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> I wonder what this means for the future.


absolutely nothing. We're literally back to square one.


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## Ikki (Apr 11, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> I wonder what this means for the future.


I don't think it means anything.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

personuser said:
			
		

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So then I guess the whole case was pointless and both sides just spent an unnecessary amount of money. The keys are already online so making Geohotz take them off (his site) isn't gonna do jack shit.


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## Recorderdude (Apr 11, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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you pretty much just summed the whole thing up.

Wonder what Anon will think of this. Now THERE's something tough to predict.


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## spotanjo3 (Apr 11, 2011)

personuser said:
			
		

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How do you know ? You are not psychic anyway. We shall wait and see.


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## foxgrey (Apr 11, 2011)

I always thought Hotz was a douche, but now I know he is a sell out as well!

Sony is trying to make an example of him and the rest of the scene, selling out is the same as letting them WIN!


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## Frostshocker (Apr 11, 2011)

Stuff taken from Geohots blog:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> MX said...
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> So you settled according to Sony. Did you live up to this?
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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

foxgrey said:
			
		

> I always thought Hotz was a douche, but now I know he is a sell out as well!
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> Sony is trying to make an example of him and the rest of the scene, selling out is the same as letting them WIN!


OK, you try and be in his position; you're 20 years old being sued by a huge corporation. They give you an opportunity to end the case, would you not take it?


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## Cloak519 (Apr 11, 2011)

Seems fair enough all-in-all. The way this was going and Hotz's Youtube rapfest made me wonder if they'd take it personally but it would appear that he got off lightly.
Wonder what he'll progress to do next?


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## lordrand11 (Apr 11, 2011)

HaHa knew he would crack under the pressure.


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## Gh0sti (Apr 11, 2011)

so what do we get out of this?


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## Hop2089 (Apr 11, 2011)

It's a draw, we all need to move on we have bigger problems if you haven't seen my latest blog.


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## antwill (Apr 11, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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I'm surprised he didn't make another rap video after all this "I'm going to win" "I'm fighting for justice!", etc. If they make a movie, Richard Simmons should be George.


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## foxgrey (Apr 11, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> OK, you try and be in his position; you're 20 years old being sued by a huge corporation. They give you an opportunity to end the case, would you not take it?




Don't get me wrong, If I was in his shoes as an average 20 year old then hell yeah I'd probably settle in a heart beat.   But we are talking about the geohotz lol...Seriously though, he has gained some fame for all his troubles. He could have fought it for a lot longer, could have stood up to the beast and possibly even got somewhere. So I stand by my first comment.


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## Joktan (Apr 11, 2011)

It didnt end to bad for hotz....he should be glad...


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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

foxgrey said:
			
		

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He doesn't have an unlimited supply of money you know. he probably wanted it to end as soon as possible.


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## foxgrey (Apr 11, 2011)

to be honest, I think I need to go burn my ISP they now have records that I was here, and /gasp posted on a george hotz thread....Sony gonna want my ip address and access records...lawlz


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## antwill (Apr 11, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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No, but if you buy into the idea that he didn't spend it on the holiday, he did still have a fairly large amount of donations, which is obviously significantly large if he stopped accepting them after a few days...


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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

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The donations didn't give him _that_ much money. It was a significant amount, but it was by no means going to last him for too much longer.


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## Recorderdude (Apr 11, 2011)

shit got leaked.

http://psx-scene.com/forums/attachments/f6...stipulation.pdf

according to this, he's gotta pay $10,000 every time he tries to hack any sony products now, up to $250,000.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

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Know how I know you're an idiot?


Spoiler



I read your posts.


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## antwill (Apr 11, 2011)

personuser said:
			
		

> shit got leaked.
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> http://psx-scene.com/forums/attachments/f6...stipulation.pdf
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> according to this, he's gotta pay $10,000 every time he tries to hack any sony products, up to $250,000.


If that is for real, all those hoping he'd hack the xperia play or the NGP are going to be sorely disappointed.


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## chartube12 (Apr 11, 2011)

nvm. see quote in post above mine.


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## antwill (Apr 11, 2011)

chartube12 said:
			
		

> geohotz probably now works for sony as part of the agreement.


In the mail department?


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

chartube12 said:
			
		

> geohotz probably now works for sony as part of the agreement.


After reading it, George Hotz got kinda boned in the settlement.
He got nothing but stipulations. He cannot access any Sony (game?) products in an unauthorized way or has to pay $10,000 and any suits brought against him by Sony will be tried in Northern California without the ability for him to challenge jurisdiction.


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## thedicemaster (Apr 11, 2011)

foxgrey said:
			
		

> I always thought Hotz was a douche, but now I know he is a sell out as well!
> 
> Sony is trying to make an example of him and the rest of the scene, selling out is the same as letting them WIN!


nope, sony didn't win.
if sony won, they'd have a precedent.
that would mean they could freely sue anyone even attempting to hack a sony device and would almost certainly win just by pointing a finger at the geohot vs sony case.
now sony can't use the results in this case as a weapon against hackers because a judge never made a definitive decision.


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## Twilight Loz (Apr 11, 2011)

So can Hotz continue and make a 3.60CFW?


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## Recorderdude (Apr 11, 2011)

Twilight Loz said:
			
		

> So can Hotz continue and make a 3.60CFW?



If he's got $10,000 to spare.


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## Eckin (Apr 11, 2011)

according to that pdf, geohot got fucked over

like, real bad

was it really a good choice for him to accept those terms?

yeah I know this whole thing with geohot isn't important anymore, but I'm still shocked by those stipulations


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## Hop2089 (Apr 11, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

> according to that pdf, geohot got fucked over
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It was the only choice but no it wasn't good at all.


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## chyyran (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, there goes months of flaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I guess Sony finally decided that there won't be a winner in this case.

If Sony wins, it's a waste of money, once it's on the interwebs, it stays.
If Sony looses, it's a waste of money, also, it's public image will be irreparably damageg


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## Maedhros (Apr 11, 2011)

It's not like the hacking scene is over, only that Geohot can't touch SCEA products anymore.

OH NOES, TEH IMPLECATIONS AND TEH CONSOOMER RITES!? WAT WILL HAPPENZ!?

Bullshit, nothing happened.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 11, 2011)

No legal precedent was set. Egohot got boned, but he's not the only hardware hacker wizard on the planet, and someone WILL take his place. Let's just hope whoever is next in line will have a bit smaller of an ego.

Life goes on. We ARE back to square one, because Sony knew that if Ego had the balls to continue, they would ultimately lose. A settlement is better than a loss because a legal precedent would have been set to allow this kind of thing in the future.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, at least he can now spent time hacking the 3DS  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh well..


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## Hop2089 (Apr 11, 2011)

He should go back to mobiles only anyway.  Then there's the 3DS, he's got options, now he has to move on preferably by choosing either of these options.


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## P-CHYLD (Apr 11, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> but he's not the only hardware hacker wizard on the planet, and someone WILL take his place.


Yes you are right, good things come to those who wait. Anything man made will be broken by another man.


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## Warrior522 (Apr 11, 2011)

...drat. We lost...


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## P-CHYLD (Apr 11, 2011)

Warrior522 said:
			
		

> ...drat. We lost...


We didn't lose anything. He lost.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 11, 2011)

P-CHYLD said:
			
		

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Software and Hardware can be secured up to 100%. Then nobody would be able to hack shit.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 11, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

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Security is only as good as a HUMAN can make it.


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## Eckin (Apr 11, 2011)

Warrior522 said:
			
		

> ...drat. We lost...


maybe we lost a fighter, but they can be replaced


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## P-CHYLD (Apr 11, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> Software and Hardware can be secured up to 100%. Then nobody would be able to hack shit.


If this is true, then why isn't anything bulletproof.
Anything man made will be broken by another man. Trust me.

MicroSoft
$ony 
Apple 
the lists goes on.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 11, 2011)

If you make something 100% bulletproof, someone will invent a bigger and better bullet. It's a cycle that cannot be broken.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 11, 2011)

Complete and utter pointlessness. I'm sure this case leaves many grey areas to be charted.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 11, 2011)

TheDarkSeed said:
			
		

> Complete and utter pointlessness. I'm sure this case leaves many grey areas to be charted.



It leaves ALL grey ares to be charted. Nothing has changed. No legal precedent was set. No one won in a legal sense. Though, we can clearly see that in a practical sense, Geohot was bent over the bench and violated without any lube.


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## Maedhros (Apr 11, 2011)

Don't worry guys, your piracy is not prejudiced by this...

Did I said piracy? Sorry, wanted to say homebrews.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 11, 2011)

Warrior522 said:
			
		

> ...drat. We lost...



Nothing of value was lost and Geohot can hack something else like phones or the 3DS, if you think it's the end of him you're sorely mistaken, it is just end of him hacking Sony hardware.


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## P-CHYLD (Apr 11, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> If you make something 100% bulletproof, someone will invent a bigger and better bullet. It's a cycle that cannot be broken.


You talk with intelligence, I respect you for that. I agree with everything you saying. No machine, no device or what ever people think is unbreakable, please believe its breakable.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 11, 2011)

So they've reached a stalemate. The only thing left for sony to do is fortify their mind fucking ToS and wait for another person to further "circumvent' their system.


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## Eckin (Apr 11, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Though, we can clearly see that in a practical sense, Geohot was bent over the bench and violated without any lube.


Word.

All of that money he raised was for nothing. Viva Sony, viva america!


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 11, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

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told you he pocketed it had fuck all to do with his court case he played every1 like a fool. so glad i didn't donate a cent


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## _Chaz_ (Apr 11, 2011)

Sony has money and was legally able to make George's life a wreck for a few months, while getting nothing out of it in the end, while George gets off with having to take down the information from his site...

I assume Sony knew they wouldn't get anything out of it in the end, but just wanted to be a couple of assholes.


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## Thesolcity (Apr 11, 2011)

_Chaz_ said:
			
		

> Sony has money and was legally able to make George's life a wreck for a few months, while getting nothing out of it in the end, while George gets off with having to take down the information from his site...
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This caused quite a blow to Sony's sales. Quite a few people I know don't buy anything Sony anymore so... 
Overall, I expect a huge shitstorm a-brewin.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 11, 2011)

_Chaz_ said:
			
		

> Sony has money and was legally able to make George's life a wreck for a few months, while getting nothing out of it in the end, while George gets off with having to take down the information from his site...
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> I assume Sony knew they wouldn't get anything out of it in the end, but just wanted to be a couple of assholes.




I fully believe Sony went into this thinking they could set a legal precedent. It was turning out to play the other way around, so that's why they pulled a settlement out of their hemorrhoid-ridden rich bitch assholes.


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## xfcrowman (Apr 11, 2011)

Regardless of what anyone thinks of geohot, I think that this whole episode may change how people release their work.  

Any future releases of exploits, homebrew, or piracy should be done as anonymously as possible, or released publicly in a country where the laws are favorable to hackers and not corporations.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

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If it was so clear cut and dry, Hotz' lawyers wouldn't have accepted the settlement that screws him over.
I think it was more Sony thought it'd be a slam dunk case once they got it to California and in front of a judge or magistrate they've paid off. And with all the difficulty they had in getting it moved to Cali, they figured it's best not to tempt fate and called for a settlement.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 11, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Hotz was not involved in the recent attacks on Sony’s internet services and websites.



wonder who that was


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

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a bunch of no-life script kiddies.


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## Fishaman P (Apr 11, 2011)

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 11, 2011)

Fucking finally.

Now let's sink this thread so I can never be annoyed by the amount of "FUCKING BURN SONY TO THE GROUND" shit that I've seen in the last couple of months.


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## Gagarin (Apr 11, 2011)

It is because of that Pizza bought by Anonymous...


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## soulfire (Apr 11, 2011)

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i don't think so :S

he used it on his vacation


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## Deleted member 473940 (Apr 11, 2011)

Gagarin said:
			
		

> It is because of that Pizza bought by Anonymous...


LOL, I was going to say that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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The Pizza must have had some sort of effect on the decision made by Sony. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Anyway, I dont really see what that means for Homebrewers though.


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## shakirmoledina (Apr 11, 2011)

its interesting.. its as Sony wanted and maybe not totally as Geohot wanted. The best thing is that this case is over.
Now channon can stop and hopefully the homebrew part of the ps3 will be promoted legally.


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## Zetta_x (Apr 11, 2011)

Jesus Christ, someone needs to hose this thread full of troll repellent. What is attracting all the trolls?

Be logical, he had lawyers and he had money before the case. It's not probable for him to spend money that was donated for legal costs for vacation money when he has a decent amount of money already especially since his lawyer vouched for him. On the same note, if it was not wise for him to settle, he wouldn't have settled. People pretend they can analyze this kind of stuff with 3 seconds of speculation and pretend they are the expert of the universe.

I'm not defending him either so don't even play that card...


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## Rydian (Apr 11, 2011)

Just because we think somebody has the right to do something doesn't mean it's legal.  It looks to me like he realized the law wouldn't agree with him and Sony could actually get him for this.  I'm pretty sure most of you aren't aware how strict some laws can be, this settlement is probably a great deal compared to what else would have happened.



			
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Yeah, even when people don't do stuff anonymously it's sometimes hard for companies to find who they are, so if you just up and sign up for a random forum and post a mediafire link to some shit, I don't think it's going to be traced back without help from the forum admin or something like that... at least, we thought.  Since Sony was requesting IP addresses and shit, people might have to release stuff by proxy (no not web proxy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## SPH73 (Apr 11, 2011)

Here's the TLR of this case

Sony LOST. 

Sony CAVED. 

Sony knew they couldn't win. With the pressure from the constant attacks from Anonymous they decided to settle just to get this case over with. Removing data from his site is a joke. That information has already been spread all over the globe. 

Meanwhile Anonymous continues their crusade..... To them this was about more than just Geo. It was also about Sony's attack on the privacy of millions of Youtube viewers. 

I don't usually curse on this board but Sony can go f*** themselves. I'm positive the karmic shit storm will continue to rain down on their heads.



Spoiler



plans for the ps4 have been cancelled



Haters and fanboys.... deal with it.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Here's the TLR of this case
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> Sony LOST.
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If that were true, why'd the settlement bend George Hotz over?

They most likely were going to lose, but they came out ahead in the end.


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## SPH73 (Apr 11, 2011)

Hey Sony....



Spoiler



Soy... un perdedor.... You're a loser baby.


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## SPH73 (Apr 11, 2011)

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This is what fanboys actually believe. 

They lost and they lost big time. 

All those court fees and lawyer fees for NOTHING. All geohot had to do was remove data from his site. Data that has now been spread all over the globe. 

This is the biggest fail in legal history. I'm sure Sony spent at least six figures in court and lawyer fees only to realize that Pandora's box has already been opened, and Sony can't do shit about it. And GeoHots gets to walk away a free man. I'm sure he'll continue his work on other hardware. And I'm sure those who have learned from his work will continue their efforts on the PS3.

Sony you lost. You're a loser. This is lawyer fail of epic proportions. Legal eagles will be citing this case for years. This was the day when the big corporation bowed to a simple hacker. 

And people say the good guys never win.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

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How the hell does he get to "walk away a free man" if he has to pay a $10,000 fine id he attempts to hack any Sony product?


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## Sterling (Apr 11, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> This is what fanboys actually believe.
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Check out the stipulations. They bent him over anyway. Sony might have lost, but I'm sure Hotz was out of funds (and Sony knew this), and took whatever Sony wrote.


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## Nujui (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't think Sony totally lost, I think this is in the middle. Both sides lost in some way.


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## SPH73 (Apr 11, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> *They bent him over anyway. *Sony might have lost, but I'm sure Hotz was out of funds (and Sony knew this), and took whatever Sony wrote.








Nope.

They lost. They're a billion dollar corporation and they couldn't beat a broke hacker. People were predicting jail time for this kid. Jail time, lol.

And seriously Sony pals, what's with your obsession with Sony "bending people over?"

That must be something you're used to being supporters of Sony and all. 

Just sayin...


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## Sterling (Apr 11, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> I don't think Sony totally lost, I think this is in the middle. Both sides lost in some way.


It doesn't seem like it to me. Sony gained one less hacker. Hotz had to take down all his findings, and now if he even opens a PS3, he'll be fined up to $10,000 for every offense.

@SPH: Look, I know you don't like Sony. The simple fact is that though they could have won, Hotz couldn't continue. The case is closed, and hotz will never hack another Sony product.


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## SPH73 (Apr 11, 2011)

Hey Mods, what's with all the censorship?

Seriously whomever is moderating this topic really needs to lose their moderator privilidges. There was nothing offensive about any of these posts. Simply people speaking their minds. You might not agree with what I have to say, and I might not agree with some of my oppenents, but there's NOTHING wrong with this conversation and you're acting like a censor happy goon.

*Posts merged*



			
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And Geohot created 1000s of PS3 hackers by sharing his information with the world.

Again, Pandora's box. Sony lost. That's basically it.


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## Nujui (Apr 11, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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Yeah, but it just seems like both sides lost something. Geohot can't do anything to a ps3 anymore and sony used a lot of money for this lawsuit, but in the end, there was never a trial.


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## Sterling (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes, but out of those 1000, 4 or 5 are the only ones who know what the hell to do. I'm sure they're on Sony's list.

@Duskye: Sony used a drop... No, a molecule of a drop of their cash flow. So, they lose basically nothing.


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## SPH73 (Apr 11, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> Yes, but out of those 1000, 4 or 5 are the only ones who know what the hell to do. I'm sure they're on Sony's list.
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EDIT: I'd like to state on the record that I love Sony products (at least the gaming stuff) but hate the Sony corporation (for various reasons including this case.)



Spoiler



You'll never hear me say that I "love" sony products again. Someone take a screenshot. This is me actually breaking character.


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## Sterling (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, let's just hope the next hardware hacker doesn't have a geoego.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 11, 2011)

I guess in a way, the extra lawyers he got did help. Sony probably figured "okay, this guy isn't backing down, this whole thing is backfiring on us. He's got more lawyers and he's actually fighting. We should come up with another plan."


But, if OtherOS comes back, or people start making homebrew and posting videos and Sony doesn't do anything, then I think it's safe to say that George got what he wanted, right?


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## Nujui (Apr 11, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

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I highy doubt watching a video and posting on a forum qualifies us as criminals.

@Vir: I don't know really then, I thought sony used a lot of money in this lawsuit. D


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## Sterling (Apr 11, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> @Vir: I don't know really then, I thought sony used a lot of money in this lawsuit. D


According to little people standards, yes, it is a lot of money. Possibly more than I'll make in a lifetime.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Apr 11, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> I highy doubt watching a video and posting on a forum qualifies us as criminals.
> According to Sony we are; Anyone who breathes a word of bypassing the security on their console, is a criminal.
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> QUOTE(SPH73 @ Apr 11 2011, 09:34 PM) And Geohot created 1000s of PS3 hackers by sharing his information with the world.
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In that sense yes they have lost, the PS3 is wide open and the only thing they can do is release firmware updates and unleash ban waves. They did however, stop the person who released the keys in the first place, from ever attempting to hack a Sony product. So in the end, although they didn't get all that they wanted, they still got something out of it, and that was stopping a potential threat to their future products.


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## Nujui (Apr 11, 2011)

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Than sony workers are criminals themselves probably.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 11, 2011)

I was hoping for some interesting case law or for Sony to get a nice backhand slap for their actions (as it stands that they were allowed and effectively part of the public record might have some implications) but if people can walk away from this somewhat intact (that ruling* linked up has a bunch of terms that any contract lawyer would swat down in seconds) I will sleep happily. I thought Mr Hotz had a fairly good legal footing myself but one can certainly not ignore the realities of the present US legal system.

*the one that makes me most curious is "F. Knowingly assisting or inducing others to engage in any of the conduct set forth in A-E above solely directed at any SONY PRODUCT or that otherwise constitutes contributory liability under the law" which given the tendency for Sony legal teams (well not necessarily Sony) to abuse the English language in a way that would even make a politician blush ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKftRlzh2RM ) the term inducing does not help. Equally with the concept of duality of knowledge coupled with some weaker wording in D) is a hack against a common encryption method that happens to also be used in some Sony product (at the time of publishing*) possible to drop him in it?
The second one despite some apparent weakening terms and leaning towards actual branding is that Sony have been known to make a few chips in their time and some things suggest they (along with a lot of others in the electronics industry) might be heading down the system on a chip/board path more than they already have (to call much of what they have a true SOC is a bit rich for my liking). Equally they sit on and have serious clout (paid or otherwise) for many big industry boards.
The third is the obvious jurisdictional stuff and maybe the lack of an expiration timeframe but seen as this probably falls under it being a continued case.

*would be interesting to see if Sony were switching something up for a new version.

Re fines- read the section carefully " Such liquidated damages shall be an *optional alternative to* demonstrating actual or, if relevant, statutory damages." (bolding is my own)

On the flipside this is a killer bit of CV/résumé padding for people in that line of work (aside from the obvious but clean room reverse engineering has been a go to practice for a while now).

@SPH73 and Sony's legal fees- see term "on retainer" as it applies to law. Most big companies have this sort of thing or even better they have such things in house.

I guess now it remains to see what happens to the other (arguably somewhat bigger) players in this PS3 saga.

Re releasing hacks anonymously- I am somewhat shocked it was not done that way anyway. I would love to see proper hacker signature (thinking some of the programming analysis type techniques rather than people tagging/signing their work) analysis tried in court.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Apr 11, 2011)

xfcrowman said:
			
		

> Regardless of what anyone thinks of geohot, I think that this whole episode may change how people release their work.
> 
> Any future releases of exploits, homebrew, or piracy should be done as anonymously as possible, or released publicly in a country where the laws are favorable to hackers and not corporations.


I agree with your statements about anonymous releases after this case. In that perspective, the case has indeed set a precedent: hackers will now have to guard their identities more closely to defend themselves. Contrary to FAST6191, I don't think that it's a positive development that one has to remain anonymous under threat of "law". It's not that hacker names are bad, but they shouldn't be the only option of taking credit. Personally, this settlement does not come across to me as anything other than a loss. Hotz is perma-banned from hacking Sony products, and the community will have to be far more cautious than they did before to avoid legal persecution from Sony. At the very least, it is certainly not a "tie," as some others have said.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 11, 2011)

foxgrey said:
			
		

> I always thought Hotz was a douche, but now I know he is a sell out as well!
> 
> Sony is trying to make an example of him and the rest of the scene, selling out is the same as letting them WIN!


Sony didn't win. It's a tie. We're back to square one. It ain't gonna change a thing, the keys are posted all over the internet.


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## dgwillia (Apr 11, 2011)

So basically.......Sony not only managed to completely own Hotz, but they managed to make him make himself look like a douche for bailing to South America off money people donated? 

I guess you can "Kinda" call that a win......aside from all the money they wasted, and the fact that all the hacking has already been done/spreaded across the net


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## lightyear (Apr 11, 2011)

One of two things happened here:

1. Sony found incriminating evidence and gave him the opportunity to bow out without having charges pressed against him (my guess would be ps3 sdk)

2. he's a sell-out who took a settlement check.

I, for one, am going with the first option....he's an idiot and he didn't do a good enough job of covering his sorry ass tracks.  Nice job, asshole!!!  Now you've fucked us all over, and homebrew dev's are gonna run for the hills....giant douche!!


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 11, 2011)

P-CHYLD said:
			
		

> WiiBricker said:
> 
> 
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I'm just sayin that it's theoreticly possible to build 100% secure stuff. It's unprobable that such thing will ever be made, but you cant say thats impossible.

Proof? Try hacking an account of someone who has a password like this:



Spoiler



$6tgxgwt55(hztr$$456788jbbFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggggztgfxw
gztr54$$$5612§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuuu8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya$$$561
2§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$
$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46
ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$56
12§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb
gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54
$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$gggztgfxwgztr54$$$bFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggg
gztgfxwgztr54$$$5612§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuuu8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya
$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§4
6ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5
612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb
$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§4
6ujnbgggztgfxwgztr54$$bFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggggztgfxwgztr54$$$56
12§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuuu8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5
612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb
$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§4
6ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$56
12§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnbgggztgfxwgztr54$
$bFhhZGgg5%%%0=9876563"Ggggztgfxwgztr54$$$5612§46ujnbvcÜijiuuuuuuu
u8ez26stg2666666&%43wwzyya$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46
ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$561
2§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$
$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46uj
nb$$$5612§46ujnb$$$5612§46ujnbgggztgfxwgztr54$$


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## FAST6191 (Apr 11, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> xfcrowman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Upon rereading my post I agree I could have used better phrasing in it. Suffice it to say I too am a great fan of security research/reverse engineering and having to have it as something of a cloak and dagger affair courtesy of the (civil) law as opposed to the vast majority of other areas of research is not something I am fond of in the slightest (if nothing else it looked like a lot of work was repeated by different people). If it was not already evident I would even go so far as to say in this case Sony overstepped the mark in a big way and will certainly second the idea of it being an example of the law being used to persecute.


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## raulpica (Apr 11, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Hey Mods, what's with all the censorship?
> 
> Seriously whomever is moderating this topic really needs to lose their moderator privilidges. There was nothing offensive about any of these posts. Simply people speaking their minds. You might not agree with what I have to say, and I might not agree with some of my oppenents, but there's NOTHING wrong with this conversation and you're acting like a censor happy goon.


Discussion is good, but most of the time yours is just mindless fanatism blinded by anti-Sony hate. Tone that down, otherwise I'll keep trashing your posts, since it's just blatant flamebait.


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## godreborn (Apr 11, 2011)

well, sony wasted millions of dollars destroying their reputation by showing themselves to be an inherently anti-consumer company.  

this just in: "the ps4 will come equipped with a finger-print scanner which must be activated in order to turn on the system.  upon first use of their system, users will be greeted with a welcome screen that asks them to firmly place their index finger on the finger-printing apparatus whereupon their finger will be scanned, and a scanned imagine will be uploaded to sony's fingerprint upload database or (SFUS) or sony's *fu* database."


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 11, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> And Geohot created 1000s of PS3 hackers by sharing his information with the world.
> 
> Again, Pandora's box. Sony lost. That's basically it.What does it feel like to be wrong every time you open your mouth?
> 
> ...


Except it's not.


You make the mistake of thinking the only only way to gain access to the account would be with a password which is *100% WRONG*, so your proof is proof of your ignorance on the subject.


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## machomuu (Apr 12, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> personuser said:
> 
> 
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I don't thik one has to be Psychic to see into the past (to a certain extent).


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 12, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> You make the mistake of thinking the only only way to gain access to the account would be with a password which is *100% WRONG*, so your proof is proof of your ignorance on the subject.



Insulting someone again? Hm..I think you are the kind of person that doesnt know otherwise. Drink some milk and relax kid.


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## machomuu (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> twiztidsinz said:
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> 
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Except he didn't insult you, he's just saying you're wrong.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> twiztidsinz said:
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Calling someone wrong is not an insult... especially when they're wrong.
Which makes you wrong again.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 12, 2011)

dgwillia said:
			
		

> So basically.......Sony not only managed to completely own Hotz, but they managed to make him make himself look like a douche for bailing to South America off money people donated?
> 
> I guess you can "Kinda" call that a win......aside from all the money they wasted, and the fact that all the hacking has already been done/spreaded across the net



People like you will actually bring a downfall to the world in 2012. Seriously, the stupidity, it's just... unbelievable.

They didn't "own" Hotz. 
They didn't make him look like a douche for bailing. He had a paid vacation during Spring Break, because that's what college students do. No money people donated were used. 

Nobody wins. Hotz should just be thankful that Sony didn't pay the courts more money to get away with more bullshit stuff.


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## tbgtbg (Apr 12, 2011)

purechaos996 said:
			
		

> So it was basically a tie. Sony got what they wanted which was to slap around the community to make a impression, and *hotz didnt go to jail* or forced to pay a huge amount of money to sony.
> 
> So it was basically pointless.



It was a civil suit, not a criminal case, he wasn't going to jail regardless.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 12, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> WiiBricker said:
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Calling someone ignorant who even dont know who you are is not an insult to you? You really have some balls. Again, relax.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> twiztidsinz said:
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Gaming forum on the internet. Relax.


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## chrisrlink (Apr 12, 2011)

well i gave up hacking and cfw im selling my 3k once i flash 6.35 ofw on it and my xbox 360 will not be hacked and good thing sony didn't ban me on psn even if i hate them


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 12, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> WiiBricker said:
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Fixed.


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## Sterling (Apr 12, 2011)

I'd tell all of you to relax, but it won't have any effect. Why don't we all move back on topic?

Edit: What Duskye said.


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## Nujui (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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Will all of u calm the hell down!?


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## thedicemaster (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> I'm just sayin that it's theoreticly possible to build 100% secure stuff. It's unprobable that such thing will ever be made, but you cant say thats impossible.
> 
> Proof? Try hacking an account of someone who has a password like this:
> 
> ...


i'm not a cryptology or hacking expert, but that password is certainly not 100% secure.
i see a lot of patterns/repeats which probably aren't that good for security, and a password can never be 100% secure.
at best this is like 99.9999(...)% secure.
if the security in the password verification system is good enough you'll need a lot of luck to crack it.
if there's no proper login-count protection all you need is enough time and a decent computer to do a little brute-forcing..


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## Gh0sti (Apr 12, 2011)

well geohot can come back to idevices and try to screw around with the iphone dev team and chronic dev team or start up on teh 3DS


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 12, 2011)

thedicemaster said:
			
		

> WiiBricker said:
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Ya, I did a lof of repeats because I was to lazy to type a more complex password, but you get the point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




But again, this example of a passwort is probably more complex than the 3DS private key and whenever someone attempt to post something about trying to brute force the 3DS key or any other keys people who know their stuff (hackers) are immediately making fun of those people. Even if you combine all computers in the world together you probably would not have been alive anymore IF the key got cracked.


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## gameandmatch (Apr 12, 2011)

So in other words: settlement, both sides did not gain much, geohotz have to pay for each new hack  he makes towards Sony of america, etc. etc. 
So way are people having arguements now?


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 12, 2011)

gameandmatch said:
			
		

> So in other words: settlement, both sides did not gain much, geohotz have to pay for each new hack  he makes towards Sony of america, etc. etc.
> So way are people having arguements now?



We don't know if sides gained anything or lost anything or have to do anything. Hotz isn't allowed to post what the settlement details were.


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## Rydian (Apr 12, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Hey Mods, what's with all the censorship?Stop trolling and you won't get censored.  Do you ever even read the replies people make to your posts?  I'm willing to bet it's a no, because you seem unaware that _even normal users tell you to stop trolling and go away when you come into a thread_.  People call you "fanatic" because you are.  It's okay to have an opinion, but you're irrational about it, and needlessly insulting.
> 
> If you were a sports fan I'm willing to bet you'd be the guy that writes "THE MARYLAND HAWKS *** **** MOTHERS **** ALL NIGHT ****" on the opponent's cars with your keys when they lose a game.  I don't know if that's what you _intend_ to look like, but when you go around posting nothing but insults and taunts and irrational hatred for things you disagree with and people who disagree with you, it's what you look like.
> 
> ...


Geohot thread = testosterone thread.


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## machomuu (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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WiiBricker, it's one thing to bash other members, but don't insult GBAtemp.


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## Raika (Apr 12, 2011)

If it ends like this then they shouldn't have even bothered to start this case to begin with.


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## Rydian (Apr 12, 2011)

Raika said:
			
		

> If it ends like this then they shouldn't have even bothered to start this case to begin with.


Yeah, they need to get their magical crystal balls that can see into the future repaired.


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## machomuu (Apr 12, 2011)

Raika said:
			
		

> If it ends like this then they shouldn't have even bothered to start this case to begin with.


Basically.  The only things that got accomplished was Sony wasting money, Geohot rapping, and a bunch of trolling on gaming/hacking forums.


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## SPH73 (Apr 12, 2011)

raulpica said:
			
		

> SPH73 said:
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You only see it that way because you're a "team player." Which is my polite way of saying "fanboy." Meanwhile I'm just brutally honest. And I have already admitted that I love Sony hardware and just hate Sony corporate.

But hey, you keep being a Sony cheerleader. It will serve you well when they use the precedent established by this case to attack GBAtemp. Its only a matter of time. This site has been on the anti-piracy brigade's radar for a very long time. And although Sony clearly LOST this case (they look like a joke now) they did gain one important foothold in the battle against homebrew and piracy. And other companies will take that ball and run with it. 

Mark my words...



Spoiler



BTW, you didn't just censor me. you censored other people who had valid opinions as well. This isn't about behaviour, its about censorship.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 12, 2011)

@SPH73: QQMOAR


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## SPH73 (Apr 12, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> @SPH73: QQMOAR



Grow up and quit stalking me. I was actually defending your right to speak.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 12, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> gameandmatch said:
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Yes we know. Read the leaked court document: http://psx-scene.com/forums/attachments/f6...stipulation.pdf

To stay on topic: I dont give a shit about Sony and GeoHot. If I like the hardware, I will purchase it, period.


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## machomuu (Apr 12, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> raulpica said:
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How is he stalking you?  You posted on a public forum.  You're talkig about his freedom of speech and he's expressing it.  At you.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 12, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> twiztidsinz said:
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No, you see *YOU* called yourself ignorant.
I said 'your ignorance on the subject'.  And ignorance isn't an insult either since no one knows everything about everything, so everyone is ignorant in some areas.


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## raulpica (Apr 12, 2011)

Congrats to whoever made this entire thread a mess.

Closing.



			
				SPH73 said:
			
		

> You only see it that way because you're a "team player." Which is my polite way of saying "fanboy." Meanwhile I'm just brutally honest. And I have already admitted that I love Sony hardware and just hate Sony corporate.
> 
> But hey, you keep being a Sony cheerleader. It will serve you well when they use the precedent established by this case to attack GBAtemp. Its only a matter of time. This site has been on the anti-piracy brigade's radar for a very long time. And although Sony clearly LOST this case (they look like a joke now) they did gain one important foothold in the battle against homebrew and piracy. And other companies will take that ball and run with it.
> 
> ...


Me being a Sony fanboy is probably the farthest thing from reality ever. I don't even like their hardware that much. But hey, you're free to believe what you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I had to trash the other posts because they were replies to _your post_, and it wouldn't have made much sense to keep them there with your post missing. Nothing more.


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