# Piracy has its benefits, says Angry Birds studio



## xist (Jan 30, 2012)

> Illegal copying nevertheless spreads brand awareness, claims Mikael Hed
> 
> The CEO of Rovio Mobile, the Finnish studio that built the trailblazing Angry Birds franchise, believes there is some value in games piracy.
> Speaking at the Midem conference in Cannes this morning, Mikael Hed said the games industry could learn from “the rather terrible ways the music industry has tried to combat piracy".
> ...



http://www.develop-o...ry-Birds-studio

Now i've not been a fan of Angry Birds but this guy speaks wisely...


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2012)

Never thought I'd see a game develop admit that piracy has benefits. Weird indeed.


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## The Catboy (Jan 30, 2012)

You know I never really thought about it that way. Then again because I pirated Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, I found out how great the games are and actually went out bought the games.
EDIT: Come to think of it, I got most of my games that way


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## wasim (Jan 30, 2012)

I pirated angry birds game.
I guess they doesn't mind.


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## Pong20302000 (Jan 30, 2012)

lol bet owner has flashcard and modded consoles


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## Veho (Jan 30, 2012)

xist said:


> "We took something from the music industry, which was to stop treating the customers as users, and start treating them as fans"


But the music industry treats people as customers _criminals_. 

Maybe that's what he meant by "took it". They took it, and the music industry doesn't have it any more


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## jing90 (Jan 30, 2012)

seems more publicity than something he really believes...
than again there's so much angry birds merchandise that they shouldn't care if the game sells...


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## prowler (Jan 30, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> Never thought I'd see a game develop admit that piracy has benefits. Weird indeed.


Mojang...


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## xist (Jan 30, 2012)

prowler_ said:


> Mojang...



Kapowie....
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gjrf4/iama_indie_game_developer_who_made_a_commercially/c1o1s34


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## prowler (Jan 30, 2012)

xist said:


> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> > Mojang...
> ...


I know he's not pro piracy but he has said before piracy does have benefits, e.g if someone pirates it and a friend sees it, they might buy it and tell other friends about it.


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## Ultymoo (Jan 30, 2012)

I've always held that piracy is useful. For instance, hack a console the manufacturer can update, they will work a bit harder to patch security holes on their products up.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 30, 2012)

Maybe we should start calling "Piracy" what it really is. "Advertising".


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## chartube12 (Jan 30, 2012)

Angry birds who are not angry?, it's like a whopper w/o the meat!


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## xist (Jan 30, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Maybe we should start calling "Piracy" what it really is. "Advertising".



It's not that simple though otherwise buying things would be called advertising too.

How about everyone acknowledges that Piracy is something that should be morally frowned upon if you're doing it without ever buying those things that you actually enjoy, and anyone who exclusively "Pirate"'s shall be shunned and Keelhauled. Piracy without Purchase isn't sustainable....if you like it, save up and buy it to send a message out that that's the sort of game you like. After all you're effectively helping to shape the future of gaming by doing that.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 30, 2012)

xist said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we should start calling "Piracy" what it really is. "Advertising".
> ...



That sounds great for gamers. Doesn't really work out for music. I usually only like one or two songs on an album and if I download the song off of a file sharing site I'm not going to buy it off of iTunes so the Musician makes some money. Moreover, sometimes you can only find older songs or certian versions through piracy.


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## xist (Jan 30, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> That sounds great for gamers. Doesn't really work out for music.



In the future hopefully things like Bandcamp will take hold and offer a more direct way to pay musicians.


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## DJPlace (Jan 30, 2012)

look's like the makers for angry birds ate some angry turds!! saying that piracy has it kicks i mean come on... well at least there not suck ups.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

It's easy for him to say.

Angry Birds is a squirt compared to games as massive as for example Skyrim. The making of Angry Birds didn't take nearly as much time nor money in comparison. Moreover - he's losing only a buck or two each pirated copy - bigger studios that make bigger, more expensive games lose 20-40 times the ammount.

Rovio can "afford" to have their game pirated. Studios that invest their time and money into making console/PC games often cannot - Cing is a prime example here. They made absolutelly stunning games like Hotel Dusk and Another Code and yet... they went bankrupt. Is it because of the lack of brand awareness? Hell, Another Code was released 2 months after the DS hit the shelves - it was almost a launch title and it sold like hotcakes. Everybody knew of Cing, at least in Japan. They should've stayed afloat just with those sales, and yet they did not.

Piracy has many faces, ladies and gentlemen. For some companies it may be beneficial, for some it may be the nail to the coffin. Keep that in mind.


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## ForteGospel (Jan 30, 2012)

as long as they dont give their games free they cant talk about piracy being contributunal for their company...

take cave story for example, the game started as a free game which helped advertise the game, now you can get it with improved sprites/graphics and added content for the pc and some consoles...


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## stab244 (Jan 30, 2012)

Definitely an interesting take on this. Their costs are definitely lower so that probably helps.


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## DS1 (Jan 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Rovio can "afford" to have their game pirated.



Pretty much the point I was going to make before I even read the post. Plus it's almost like they are arguing piracy is good because it changed the gaming industry model to something that was easily exploitable. Instead of pumping out a masterpiece for sales, you make a little something-something (tower defense game, trajectory game, etc.) that you can expand with 'character goods'. Japanese devs could benefit from this model world-wide, but they are so stuck on their bottomless-wallet local otaku fans that everyone else gets left in the dust (or pays $100+ for crap that was priced for a completely different economy, on top of shipping costs).

RE: Music Industry - I think the best model is Pandora, followed by Spotify. I have bought more albums since listening to them for free via Spotify than I have.... EVER. I am more likely to want to purchase a full album after having listened to it 20 times than I am after hearing a few crappy singles on the radio. Sorry to those who only like bands that can only produce two or three good songs at a time.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

DS1 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Rovio can "afford" to have their game pirated.
> ...


The fun part about the Music Industry is that it would stay fairly afloat even if CD's DIDN'T sell well at all - artists draw alot of benefits from other sectors of the industry (movies, games, radio, TV) for "borrowing" given songs for broadcasting etc. and earn loads upon loads of money which the gaming industry does not and will not recieve. That, combined with ticket fares for concerts makes a hefty profit *already*. If anything, "piracy of music" boosts a given band's popularity, making concert tickets sell like freshly-made ambrosia. Comparing the two is completely moot.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 30, 2012)

As a side note, I hate Angry Birds. Such a stupid game. I'm tired of going to the Android Market and seeing Angry Birds, Angry Birds Xmas, Angry Birds Rio and the other one always in the top 10 downloads.


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## prowler (Jan 30, 2012)

ForteGospel said:


> take cave story for example, the game started as a free game which helped advertise the game, now you can get it with improved sprites/graphics and added content for the pc and some consoles...


Except Pixel never had the idea to sell Cave Story in the first place until Nicalis came along.


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## shakirmoledina (Jan 30, 2012)

its not that good but if u fight it, the consequences are terrible esp if anon or lulz finds out


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## Ben_j (Jan 30, 2012)

There's an important detail about Angry Birds though. It's a casual game, that costs only a couple of dollars/euros/whatever money you pay in, it's dematerialised, and anybody with a smartphone is 20 seconds away from getting it. 
Piracy of Nintendo DS games, for example, is much more harmful. A "classic" (non-DSi-ware) Nintendo DS game costs much more, and has a much smaller target than a game like Angry Birds. If you have a flashcard, it's much easier to download the rom, put it on your SD, than going to a shop, buying it online and wait for it to arrive, you can't try before you buy, etc...


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## nando (Jan 30, 2012)

xist said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds great for gamers. Doesn't really work out for music.
> ...




i simply make sure i see the bands i like live whenever i can, that's the best way to pay the artist directly. i do avoid ticketmaster fees at all costs, those guys are the real pirates, high jacking events and inflating ticket prices.


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## DS1 (Jan 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The fun part about the Music Industry is that it would stay fairly afloat even if CD's DIDN'T sell well at all - artists draw alot of benefits from other sectors of the industry (movies, games, radio, TV) for "borrowing" given songs for broadcasting etc. and earn loads upon loads of money which the gaming industry does not and will not recieve. That, combined with ticket fares for concerts makes a hefty profit *already*. If anything, "piracy of music" boosts a given band's popularity, making concert tickets sell like freshly-made ambrosia. Comparing the two is completely moot.



Exactly, a lot of groups I know are like, "We don't care if you pirate the album, just come to the shows." I think I've only heard one group say, "I see all these people at shows, and I know they're not buying the album"


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## nando (Jan 30, 2012)

well, it's the record companies that want you to buy the albums, of which the artist makes very little out off anyway so of course the artist would rather have you go see the show.


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## YayMii (Jan 30, 2012)

Well, Angry Birds is completely free on some platforms, so they're not really losing money if someone pirates their game.


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## Zetta_x (Jan 30, 2012)

I think the moral of the story is that piracy is free advertising and increases fan base. 

It's the same old shit with piracy, many people throw good arguments for piracy and many people throw good arguments against piracy. However, all of you fail to look at the big picture. You may try and argue that pokemon games sell a lot less because of piracy, however, you have no evidence to support and answer the question:

"How much less popular pokemon would be without piracy"

You can't reverse time 20-30 years and take back all piracy. So all of your arguments trying to compare what piracy has done to the gaming industry... making it for better or worse... is just speculation that's flawed in so many ways.

The basic fact is, piracy is free advertising and in the end it increases their fanbase which helps their business grow. A game that has been pirated by 10,000,000 people will grow so much advertising for that company, it would be improbable for that company to go out of business, the fans wouldn't allow it no matter how much revenue they lose from piracy.


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## redact (Jan 30, 2012)

originally pirated angry birds, later bought it and even bought some dlc for it too


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

mercluke said:


> originally pirated angry birds, later bought it and even bought some dlc for it too


Did you do the same for all the games you pirated for the DS/Wii/Whatever system you own, which, unlike Angry Birds, actually cost $30+? Doubt it.

When a game costs as much as a sandwich, I can see how people "buy'em" just "because". When they have to actually empty their wallets though, the situation is dramatically different.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 30, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> I think the moral of the story is that piracy is free advertising and increases fan base.
> 
> It's the same old shit with piracy, many people throw good arguments for piracy and many people throw good arguments against piracy. However, all of you fail to look at the big picture. You may try and argue that pokemon games sell a lot less because of piracy, however, you have no evidence to support and answer the question:



You're kinda the playing "Well you can't disprove it" card. There's no statistics that say piracy increases sales or helps advertising.

Personally, I've pirated games that I probably would've paid money for, but the fact that I can pirate it made all the difference. Pretty sure the only game I've pirated and bought was Goldeneye 007 (for the Wii), and I only bought it because it was a good game and it was on sale for $10.

Piracy certainly hurts the gaming industry more than helps. Demos and trials are "free advertising". Saying piracy is advertising is like showing an entire movie as its trailer and then asking people to see it in theaters. Excluding the "big screen" experience, what's the point?


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Zetta_x said:
> 
> 
> > I think the moral of the story is that piracy is free advertising and increases fan base.
> ...


Basically "yes". After pirating and playing through a game, the only reason to actually buy it is its collector's value or in the case of not fully pirated consoles, "online gaming". In those cases, people usually grab "popular franchises" and usually get them "used", thus the only one benefitting from the sale is the game store. This spells absolute DOOM for smaller developers which do not always recieve recognition.

I'll bring back the Cing argument again - Cing games were bloody awesome. Their studio is gone now. Coincidence? I don't think so.


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## machomuu (Jan 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Zetta_x said:
> ...


Well they didn't have the best sales in recent years anyway, and while they may have been "bloody awesome", but even if people didn't pirates didn't pirate their games, I don't know if that would've changed things.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 30, 2012)

machomuu said:


> Well they didn't have the best sales in recent years anyway, and while they may have been "bloody awesome", but even if people didn't pirates didn't pirate their games, I don't know if that would've changed things.



Maybe sales were bad because of piracy?

I honestly think the whole "people lose no money from piracy since they'd never buy it in the first place" is gigantic bullshit. People will easily pirate a game with no intention of buying it and then find the game is awesome. But why buy it now when they already played it? Or people may want to buy a game but if they have easy access to a pirated version of it, why not save yourself $60 and pirate it? As someone whose chosen piracy over purchase multiple times, I can safely say the argument that piracy doesn't affect sales is jack shit.

Alan Wake sold relatively poorly but was pirated heavily. People liked the game and it got great reviews. While it's no "Halo" or "Gears of War" brand, it was still obviously popular enough to get a lot of piracy action. Plus as a single player game you have nothing to lose over a legit version.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

machomuu said:


> Well they didn't have the best sales in recent years anyway, and while they may have been "bloody awesome", but even if people didn't pirates didn't pirate their games, I don't know if that would've changed things.


They released games specifically for the DS and the Wii, I honestly believe that piracy had a big influence on their financial situation.


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## machomuu (Jan 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> > Well they didn't have the best sales in recent years anyway, and while they may have been "bloody awesome", but even if people didn't pirates didn't pirate their games, I don't know if that would've changed things.
> ...


I never said it didn't, and I'm not lauding such an argument either, but what I said was situational.  Honestly I do believe piracy affects sales, and you can see in many of my past posts that I believe that.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 30, 2012)

machomuu said:


> I never said it didn't, and I'm not lauding such an argument either, but what I said was situational.  Honestly I do believe piracy affects sales, and you can see in many of my past posts that I believe that.



Yeah I know, I was honestly just going off on a tangent/rant, not really involving you. No offense


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## machomuu (Jan 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> > I never said it didn't, and I'm not lauding such an argument either, but what I said was situational.  Honestly I do believe piracy affects sales, and you can see in many of my past posts that I believe that.
> ...


Oh, it's fine.

Though you should really get involved in more piracy discussions, you can certainly make solid arguments, and there have been so many about this.  Then again, maybe this is the only one I've noticed you in


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> > I never said it didn't, and I'm not lauding such an argument either, but what I said was situational.  Honestly I do believe piracy affects sales, and you can see in many of my past posts that I believe that.
> ...


In other words, the only way to rank up sales without buttr*ping the consumer with annoying DRM's is making sure that the online service is "impenetrable" and offering DLC's that are actually worth getting, Dragon Age style.

I mean, that game got so much extra content online it's almost "a separate game". Stuff like this validates getting a legit copy since a pirate misses on alot of those extras.


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## machomuu (Jan 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > machomuu said:
> ...


It's a sad truth, but yeah.  "Make the pirate miss out" but in turn "damage the consumers wallet" seems like it's unfortunately the way companies go to circumvent piracy.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

machomuu said:


> It's a sad truth, but yeah.  "Make the pirate miss out" but in turn "damage the consumers wallet" seems like it's unfortunately the way companies go to circumvent piracy.


Nobody says that DLC's gave to be expensive. Provided the companies "think ahead of time", they can prepare bonuses for gamers that are actually cheap and still improve the game. I can think of numerous games that actually had free DLC's in form of bonus missions that were actually worth downloading - before the times when CFW had complete and unimpeded access to Sony's online, Monster Hunter games would be a great example. All those were free, afterall.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jan 30, 2012)

If you can't get Angry Birds for free LEGALLY by now, you're doing something wrong. At one point or another I have aquired full versions of Angry Birds full and ad free legally over the course of a few years.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 30, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> If you can't get Angry Birds for free LEGALLY by now, you're doing something wrong. At one point or another I have aquired full versions of Angry Birds full and ad free legally over the course of a few years.


It's very platform-dependent. While you can easily get Angry Birds for PC free, on the PSP it'd be a different story entirely.


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## Bobbyloujo (Jan 30, 2012)

Well, Foxi, they say that piracy even helped Adobe get on top. A lot of people can't afford such expensive programs. Word of mouth is one of the best forms of advertising. If someone can't afford a program and pirate it instead, then tell three of their rich friends about how good it is, guess what? Adobe just sold three copies of their program and only lost out on one.

I might have just reiterated something that someone already said. I didn't read the whole thread.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

Bobbyloujo said:


> Well, Foxi, they say that piracy even helped Adobe get on top. A lot of people can't afford such expensive programs. Word of mouth is one of the best forms of advertising. If someone can't afford a program and pirate it instead, then tell three of their rich friends about how good it is, guess what? Adobe just sold three copies of their program and only lost out on one.
> 
> I might have just reiterated something that someone already said. I didn't read the whole thread.


I can see how this works in the field of computer programs, but gamers are usually well-versed in gaming news as it is. They create their own opinions, and I'm pretty sure that if they want to try out a game their friend suggested to them, they just borrow it. But I do see your point.


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## Gahars (Jan 31, 2012)

It'll be interesting to see if other developers follow their lead; after all, I'm sure they must hold (at the very least) some sway after the massive success of Angry Birds.

Whatever happens, it would be a definite improvement over the witch hunt other companies are engaged in.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

Gahars said:


> It'll be interesting to see if other developers follow their lead; after all, I'm sure they must hold (at the very least) some sway after the massive success of Angry Birds.
> 
> Whatever happens, it would be a definite improvement over the witch hunt other companies are engaged in.


I can't wait for Gears of Physics, where you throw your saw-gun-thingamajig at some badly-built alien structures, killing the aliens with the falling debris.


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

The Place for Bronies is actually doing a thing with their front page now everyweek where they feature an author, musicians, or other artists that have had their material sell more after being available for download from P2P services


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> The Place for Bronies is actually doing a thing with their front page now everyweek where they feature an author, musicians, or other artists that have had their material sell more after being available for download from P2P services


Oh yeah, if there's one thing that's all for NOT infringing copyrights and NOT downloading content illegally then it's that one. Yeah, right.


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > *T*he *P*lace for *B*ronies is actually doing a thing with their front page now everyweek where they feature an author, musicians, or other artists that have had their material sell more after being available for download from P2P services
> ...


I dont get what you are saying... The last person they featured had something on his website about how his sales have gone up and encouraged people to download his books, and if you liked it, buy a copy.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 31, 2012)

LOL Don't you still get in trouble for acronyms referencing to pirate sites?


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> LOL Don't you still get in trouble for acronyms referencing to pirate sites?


I dont know. Ive seen people get in trouble for putting the real name and then changing it to the peanut butter or the penguin bar


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## machomuu (Jan 31, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> LOL Don't you still get in trouble for acronyms referencing to pirate sites?


Yeah, at the very least joey, remove the bolding.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...


The site you mentioned has a specific section dedicated to all those who demanded removal of given torrents on the basis of their copyrights being infringed, for which they were insulted in hillarious fashions that often included retractable batons.

I can see how this propagates small-time writers or singers. What I can't see is how this would help Microsoft in selling Windows or Nintendo in selling Zelda games.

Their "help" and "advertising" is limited to a very narrow group of creators who simply can't afford any other type of advertising, you are aware of that, right?

*EDIT:* We shouldn't be such numbskulls as to remove simple refferences, he's not giving a direct link to the site, he's just participating in a discussion about piracy, and the site he mentioned is an important hub of it.


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The site you mentioned have a specific part dedicated to all those who demanded removal of given torrents on the basis of their copyrights being infringed, for which they were insulted in hillarious fashions that often included retractable batons.
> 
> I can see how this propagates small-time writers or singers. What I can't see is how this would help Microsoft in selling Windows or Nintendo in selling Zelda games.
> 
> Their "help" and "advertising" is limited to a very narrow group of creators who simply can't afford any other type of advertising, you are aware of that, right?


Everything you say I agree with, I was not trying to state otherwise with my statement. They are OBVIOUSLY featuring small time artists and that is the point. You bringing up windows or zelda games is completely erroneous to the point of the feature and the point I was trying to convey


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > The site you mentioned have a specific part dedicated to all those who demanded removal of given torrents on the basis of their copyrights being infringed, for which they were insulted in hillarious fashions that often included retractable batons.
> ...


What's erroneous is thinking that harming one sector of the industry is somehow validated by helping out another one.


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

It's pretty aparent to me that the point is not to "validate" the harming of other sectoors of the industry.. It's pretty clear that the feature is stating that there is a place for P2P or community sharing but by no means is this a way of "validating" hurting the industry. Let's say I buy a CD duplicator for my bands albums, and someone else buys the same one to make copies of retail CDs and sell them. Does my band selling albums because of this CD duplicator "validate" the fact that the same CD duplicator is being used to sell boot leg CDs. No, it doesn't, that would be asinine, but it does mean that there is a legitamate place for it.


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## Midna (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> It's pretty aparent to me that the point is not to "validate" the harming of other sectoors of the industry.. It's pretty clear that the feature is stating that there is a place for P2P or community sharing but by no means is this a way of "validating" hurting the industry. Let's say I buy a CD duplicator for my bands albums, and someone else buys the same one to make copies of retail CDs and sell them. Does my band selling albums because of this CD duplicator "validate" the fact that the same CD duplicator is being used to sell boot leg CDs. No, it doesn't, that would be asinine, but it does mean that there is a legitamate place for it.


>CD Duplicator





It's like I'm really in 1990


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

How else would you burn multipul discs at one time? Sorry I should have said CD/DVD duplicator as most of them do both nowadays.


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## LightyKD (Jan 31, 2012)

This is old news. I posted this story months ago.


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## kevan (Jan 31, 2012)

*Sigh* All of these piracy arguments give me headaches.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> It's pretty aparent to me that the point is not to "validate" the harming of other sectoors of the industry.. It's pretty clear that the feature is stating that there is a place for P2P or community sharing but by no means is this a way of "validating" hurting the industry. Let's say* I buy a CD duplicator for my bands albums*, and *someone else buys the same one to make copies of retail CDs and sell them*. Does my band selling albums because of this CD duplicator "validate" the fact that the same CD duplicator is being used to sell boot leg CDs. No, it doesn't, that would be asinine, but it does mean that there is a* legitamate place for it*.



That would mean that while you're earning money from selling you band's work, some d*ckwad is earning money from selling someone else's work. Hard, hard work that this "someone" put into making an album, be it a good or a bad one. If it was your band's CD that was being copied, you'd be earning popularity but you'd lose sales. Moreover, you'd never sell jack since the copies are of the exact same quality as the originals; the same "hardware" was used to make them.

Now, if the CREATOR of a given album releases a FREE SINGLE to promote it and adds it FREE OF CHARGE to some popular magazine, now THAT'S legitimate advertising. What you described is blatant forgery and criminal activity, it's by no means legitimate.

Also, "CD-Duplicator", as if pirates use that... They just burn CD's with an everyday CD burner, some don't even bother adding an "a'la original disc" sticker and just doodle the title on the disc. I have seen some nice-quality bootlegs, I agree, but those are distributed by true "crime syndicates" that live off making illegal copies - they're not made by the Everyday Pirate Joe.


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > It's pretty aparent to me that the point is not to "validate" the harming of other sectoors of the industry.. It's pretty clear that the feature is stating that there is a place for P2P or community sharing but by no means is this a way of "validating" hurting the industry. Let's say* I buy a CD duplicator for my bands albums*, and *someone else buys the same one to make copies of retail CDs and sell them*. Does my band selling albums because of this CD duplicator "validate" the fact that the same CD duplicator is being used to sell boot leg CDs. No, it doesn't, that would be asinine, but it does mean that there is a* legitamate place for it*.
> ...


You didn't seem to understand my post.

The fact that, ME the CREATOR of the music, uses the device for a LEGITAMATE reason being making copies of MY album to sell at the merch table at shows for anyone who wants a hardcopy(because they likely have already downloaded the songs for free anyways which I would have put up on the internet myself),

Me having a legitmate reason for using a "CD Duplicator" doesnt validate the fact that this d*ckwad you speak of could use the very same device to make copies of MY CD.

To clear things up for you a little more. There is a LEGITIMATE place for "CD Duplicators" BEYOND piracy. Just as there is a legitmate place for creators of materials to share their material via P2P.

And why the hell would every day pirate joe have anything to do with this. OBVIOUSLY, everyday pirate joe isnt going to be trying to make lots of copies of something is short amount of time.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...


I never argued againts it. It's like saying "guns are bad because terrorists kill people using them" and "guns are good because they protect our country from terrorists". It's not the guns that are good or bad, it's the terrorists or soldiers that we should think of here. You're alienating yourself from the subject at hand - nobody's ever said that having the capacity to create CD's, DVD's or being able to share P2P is wrong. I argued that sharing ILLEGAL content is to an extent HARMFUL for the industry.


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


You argued that "sharing ILLEGAL content is to an extant HARMFUL for the indusrty" against me pointing out that people legitmately use P2P sharing to expose their OWN materials. By no means does this validate the fact that "illeagal" material is available through.


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## Frogman (Jan 31, 2012)

I read this ages ago.
It's old news


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## Foxi4 (Jan 31, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> You argued that "sharing ILLEGAL content is to an extant HARMFUL for the indusrty" against me pointing out that people legitmately use P2P sharing to expose their OWN materials. By no means does this validate the fact that "illeagal" material is available through.


Well then we argued for nothing.

The point I was trying to make was that the site you mentioned is perhaps doing people a favour by allowing them to freely advertise themselves, however we cannot forget about the fact that at the same time they share content that is not exactly legal. To this extent we seem to agree, so that's that. Right?


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > You argued that "sharing ILLEGAL content is to an extant HARMFUL for the indusrty" against me pointing out that people legitmately use P2P sharing to expose their OWN materials. By no means does this validate the fact that "illeagal" material is available through.
> ...


I understood your point from the begining.

while these people are getting some free advertise from the site mentioned, that is beyond the point that I and the feature conveys - These people have seen sale increases due to P2P sharing. Any user generated news site(like gbatemp) could have a feature like this that spotlights these people, they just link to their website, its not like theyre linking to all their torrents or something. site mentioned ≠ P2P. While yes they are relevant to eachother, but P2P encompases a far wider range of things

I was never argueing really. I knew from the begining you didnt understand the point I was trying to convey and ultimately what the feature is trying to convey. I do have a habit or rambeling and using farfetched examples, and I am notorious for be vague....


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 31, 2012)

this arguement is like saying who makes the best console?...should abortion be controlled?...should weed be legalized?

Topics like this get offtopic and locked from a clusterfuck of clashing ideas that will never have a resolution

so without further ado...this is my facial reaction to topics like this:


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## gloweyjoey (Jan 31, 2012)

what is with all the inane posts. Yeah this thread was doomed from the begining, but atleast Foxi4 and I, have something more meaningful to add to the topic besides posting memes or "this is old news." neither of us was raging or trolling, and I definetly was not trying to argue with Foxi4. with that said


Spoiler



fuck that to you too










Spoiler



([member='Foxi4'] might have been a little bit)


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## triassic911 (Jan 31, 2012)

Honestly, I've gotten introduced to new games and genre's by pirating them first. 3-4 years ago I was obsessed with pirating every xbox360 game around, and I enjoyed games I never thought I would, like Tales of Vesperia and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Today, I own the actual retail copies. This guys speaks truth.


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## Qtis (Jan 31, 2012)

This is not really surprising considering the whole concept Rovio has up and going. They're not just a gaming company. They are an entertaining company, which in a way could be compared to Disney in regards of there being a huge variety of other things on top of the game: fluffy toys, cook books, clothing, movies/movie related (Angry Birds RIO for example), key chains, animations, etc. What Mikael Hed actually states is that piracy increases brand awareness = a person may buy something on top of just the game = higher profit. Good for them, at least someone understands that piracy may have something good in it, not just bad (ie lost of sales x10000000000000).


ps. Wether you like Angry Birds or not, Rovio is doing something new.


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## redact (Feb 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> mercluke said:
> 
> 
> > originally pirated angry birds, later bought it and even bought some dlc for it too
> ...


bought the ones i actually liked...
i dont see much difference in me pirating and buying ones i like to me borrowing the game from a friend and buying what i liked


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

mercluke said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > mercluke said:
> ...


You versus the rest of the world. Piracy is often popular because of money-related constraints, not because people just want to demo a game. Some people have* no problems *with spending a buck and getting a buck's worth out of a small game like Angry Birds because it *doesn't* greatly influence their weekly budget, but when they have to choose between *A)* going to the game store and getting a game for $40-$60, thus emptying their wallet when it comes to other weekly extra expenses and *B)* going for a night out to a pub or a disco, getting a few drinks, having some fun and pirating the game ANYWAYS, *B)* is the obvious answer.


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