# Van hits muslims on their way out from prayer



## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

So as the title says, only 9 minutes ago at the time of writing, a van hit a number of people on their way out from prayer at Finsbury Park Mosque in London.

So what are your thoughts? Was it justified killing innocent Muslims because of the London and Manchester terror attacks? Or is it another sign of the perpetuating violence in our society?

Source


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## Stephano (Jun 19, 2017)

It doesn't make it right. Yes there have been tons of attacks in the name of Islam but murder is murder. Now matter who causes it.
People are afraid and fear mongering will be the end to so many, even if fear may be justified. I'm not defending the horrible acts that have been done in the name of Islam, but nor will I defend these acts either.


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## DinohScene (Jun 19, 2017)

Wow, a terroristic attack not committed by muslims!
That certainly is newsworthy!

Sorry I can't take the sarcasm out but I don't mean it sarcastic.


Anyway, poor people like always.
Never ending cycle of terrorism in Europe unfortunately.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Was it justified killing innocent Muslims because of the London and Manchester terror attacks?


What kind of twisted person would say "yes" to that?...


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> What kind of twisted person would say "yes" to that?...


I could name a few here on the temp.


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## Stephano (Jun 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> What kind of twisted person would say "yes" to that?...


The question exists more for the sake of discussion rather than agreement I believe


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## DeoNaught (Jun 19, 2017)

GOSH Fricken serious? Are they okay? Geesh, on their way out from prayer no less. 
Do we know for certain that this was intended? 
I hope this isn't gonna be like, THEY STARTED IT. 


No this isn't justified, Muslims are human beings, they deserve every right everyone else has the right to. 
This is sad actually.


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## Hanafuda (Jun 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> *Wow, a terroristic attack not committed by muslims!*
> That certainly is newsworthy!
> 
> Sorry I can't take the sarcasm out but I don't mean it sarcastic.
> ...




Good chance of that given the situation, but you don't yet know that. Although underreported by the Western press, most terrorist attacks happen in Muslim countries, with Muslims doing the killing and Muslims doing the dying. (This isn't a bleeding heart liberal post - I'm just saying I wish they'd keep it at home if they're gonna act like that.)


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 19, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> (...I'm just saying I wish they'd keep it at home if they're gonna act like that.)


I wish they wouldn't at all

Edit: Interesting. TIME is reporting this as though it's "just another terrorist attack;" no mention of who the victims were or possible motives of the drivers


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## Stephano (Jun 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I wish they wouldn't at all


Same. Taking female genital mutilation as an example. I wouldn't want that done at all to Muslim women


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## Scarlet (Jun 19, 2017)

What the fuck? "Was it justified?" People have to ask this!? Of course it wasn't! How can anybody honestly think this kind of shit is justifiable!? 
I just don't understand.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 19, 2017)

No. Of course, there's going to be these extremist assholes who think that all Muslims are terrorists. Just.. No...


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## GhostLatte (Jun 19, 2017)

Whoever thinks that this was justified, needs mental help.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

It's infuriating that it has happened again. I don't care what one's beliefs are, innocent people are innocent. Period.

Seeing how Theresa May and the UK govt are pushing so hard for censorship it wouldn't come as a surprise if this was part of the plan to legalise 'Islamophobia' as a real hate crime.

God damn it. Just a day without some tragedy!


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## DinohScene (Jun 19, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> Good chance of that given the situation, but you don't yet know that. Although underreported by the Western press, most terrorist attacks happen in Muslim countries, with Muslims doing the killing and Muslims doing the dying. (This isn't a bleeding heart liberal post - I'm just saying I wish they'd keep it at home if they're gonna act like that.)



I'm merely speaking about the western countries now.
9/10 terror attacks are committed by muslims against muslims in muslim countries yeh.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Seeing how Theresa May and the UK govt are pushing so hard for censorship it wouldn't come as a surprise if this was part of the plan to legalise 'Islamophobia' as a real hate crime.


... what?...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> ... what?...


They want to push censorship on the internet and like the saying goes: '_Never let a tragedy go to waste._' which Theresa May hasn't.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> They want to push censorship on the internet and like the saying goes: '_Never let a tragedy go to waste._' which Theresa May hasn't.


Isn't Theresa May the one that wants to make sure refugees _can't _come into the UK, though?...


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> ... what?...



I'm guessing that it's just standard PC propaganda. Filtering all the actual hate crimes away from what they want us to believe are hate crimes.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Isn't Theresa May the one that wants to make sure refugees _can't _come into the UK, though?...


She'll say one thing, do another.

For those thinking Corbyn would be any better.. yeah. He's just as bad but plays the good cop while she plays bad cop.


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## Benja81 (Jun 19, 2017)

This is just as cowardly as the terrorist acts they are deplored by, and in fact are committing terrorism themselves; will only result in more murders by ISIS or even worse serve to inspire new terrorists. All while only resulting in killing peaceful and innocent Muslims, who do not deserve it any more than Christians killed by ISIS.


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## AkikoKumagara (Jun 19, 2017)

There's no justification for violence against innocent people. That's all I can really say. It makes me sick.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

Sophie-bear said:


> There's no justification for violence against innocent people. That's all I can really say. It makes me sick.


This. London is going through some terrible times.

Terrorist attacks, building burning as all hell and now this. It's just all too similar.


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## Taleweaver (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Was it justified killing innocent Mu....


No.

/thread


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## WeedZ (Jun 19, 2017)

Eventually people will learn to abolish organized religion. Give it a couple hundred more years and another world war or two.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

As the mayor of London says.... all part and parcel of living In a city. Unfortunately.


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## Glyptofane (Jun 19, 2017)

Of course it was not justified, but you can not definitively state that the victims were innocent either.


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## Byokugen (Jun 19, 2017)

This is why 2012 should've happened ...
It's middle ages all over again, Holy Crap Wars? So if you are Christian you are better than Muslims and vice versa? 
This is sad and wrong on so many levels...


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## Quantumcat (Jun 19, 2017)

clownb said:


> Of course it was not justified, but you can not definitively state that the victims were innocent either.


I wish it were possible to "dislike" posts... when a murderer goes on a rampage, do people start wondering how innocent the victims were, and whether killing them wasn't so bad? Deciding people might be bad based on knowing their religion only is called prejudice.


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## MionissNio (Jun 19, 2017)

Stephano said:


> Same. Taking female genital mutilation as an example. I wouldn't want that done at all to Muslim women



As Muslim I can assure you all my known Female colleagues have their sex organs intact. In not a single Hadith or verse of Quran I have read it is mandatory by *Islamic law  *to mutilate female sex organs.

That said it is not like they don't practice it, it was a cultural thing especially in Africa, now due to the sexist nature of middle Eastern men they are starting to adopt it as well, and that is mostly due to lack of education, but things are getting better, and I even have justification how it is against Islam to do it.

On topic, Terrorist are winning basically, first divide the line between Muslim and non Muslim, with the support of terrorist nation, brainwash both sides into killing each other, rinse and repeat.


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## RustInPeace (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm so under a rock with news, I thought this was the previous news about a terrorist attack in London. Now knowing it's a separate incident, just, fuck. London can't catch a break, and just overall, it's dreadful news. And really it's reaching a point where every few days there is some tragedy or near-tragedy, whether it be terrorist attacks or shootings, and they prove successful, or are very close calls and you breathe a sigh of relief, but it's still horrible. Like recently, someone in the US shooting up shit, congressman in danger, two cops make the save, and if I'm not mistaken, were not fatally wounded. Things like that make me relieved, but it's horrible still that in such news, that's the most positive portion. What'd be better? If said incident didn't happen at all, or it was stopped very early, but no, some god is playing really cruel tricks or this world is just deteriorating, and this particular bit of news makes reaffirms that it's not just the USA that's fucked up.


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## MionissNio (Jun 19, 2017)

RustInPeace said:


> I'm so under a rock with news, I thought this was the previous news about a terrorist attack in London. Now knowing it's a separate incident, just, fuck. London can't catch a break, and just overall, it's dreadful news. And really it's reaching a point where every few days there is some tragedy or near-tragedy, whether it be terrorist attacks or shootings, and they prove successful, or are very close calls and you breathe a sigh of relief, but it's still horrible. Like recently, someone in the US shooting up shit, congressman in danger, two cops make the save, and if I'm not mistaken, were not fatally wounded. Things like that make me relieved, but it's horrible still that in such news, that's the most positive portion. What'd be better? If said incident didn't happen at all, or it was stopped very early, but no, some god is playing really cruel tricks or this world is just deteriorating, and this particular bit of news makes reaffirms that it's not just the USA that's fucked up.



I agree, I wonder how people feel about this, I imagine really scared.

If all this is this parcel living in the big cityid rather be on the country side with my folks watching the sun settle down into the abyss.


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## Glyptofane (Jun 19, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> I wish it were possible to "dislike" posts... when a murderer goes on a rampage, do people start wondering how innocent the victims were, and whether killing them wasn't so bad? Deciding people might be bad based on knowing their religion only is called prejudice.


I'm not saying their deaths weren't so bad, but look how constant the terrorist attacks against Europe are becoming. At a certain point, you have to expect some level of retaliation, whether misguided or not.

I didn't start it, nor do I participate, but there is a race war occuring whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.


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## Hayleia (Jun 19, 2017)

MionissNio said:


> On topic, Terrorist are winning basically, first divide the line between Muslim and non Muslim, with the support of terrorist nation, brainwash both sides into killing each other, rinse and repeat.


This exactly. People who attack Muslims because "they're the cause" of the terrorism they want to stop are just helping terrorism -.-


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## CallmeBerto (Jun 19, 2017)

Surprised it took this long. I'm not surprised at all this happen. You did nothing so the people took matters in their own hands. Expect to see more of this.


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## Essometer (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Was it justified killing innocent Muslims because of the London and Manchester terror attacks?


WAT.


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## shaunj66 (Jun 19, 2017)

Yet another terrorist attack in our great city.

These are some sad times. Stay strong everyone.


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## Youkai (Jun 19, 2017)

Don't judge yet guys.

As far as I know it is not clear yet why that guy did it.
There could be a lot possible things like he is mentaly ill or maybe lost someone by a terror attack and withouth thinking lost himself to blind rage or maybe it was an accident? He could as well be a Muslim who says the other ones are trairos as they are not abiding to their rules correctly or whatever.
Could be everything.

just wait for an explanation.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> As the mayor of London says.... all part and parcel of living In a city. Unfortunately.



That's not a fucking excuse. Since 2010 there have been at least 1,000 LESS police officers in the UK because of misdirected budget cuts. In the rise of recent attacks, rather than hiring more, they're just relocating them from quiet towns (making those less safe) to populous cities. The government is entirely to blame at its poor handling.



CallmeBerto said:


> Surprised it took this long. I'm not surprised at all this happen. You did nothing so the people took matters in their own hands. Expect to see more of this.



Are you insane? Do you actually think this is in any way an "act of revenge" as opposed to blatant Islamophobia? What if somebody killed a whole bunch of Christians because of what the KKK did? Bet you'd be surprised it happened THEN. Why does the west have such a massive problem with generalisation of that which is foreign.

Every Muslim I've ever met (of which there are plenty since I grew up in a Muslim community) is vehemently opposed to ISIS and every recent screwed up religiously motivated attack. I shouldn't even have to say this.



Youkai said:


> Don't judge yet guys.
> 
> As far as I know it is not clear yet why that guy did it.
> There could be a lot possible things like he is mentaly ill or maybe lost someone by a terror attack and withouth thinking lost himself to blind rage or maybe it was an accident? He could as well be a Muslim who says the other ones are trairos as they are not abiding to their rules correctly or whatever.
> ...



If you've read a single article on this at all then you'll know that the perpetrator was screaming "I want to kill all Muslims" throughout the entire rampage.

--

This is all very depressing. I live a few minutes away from the site of this attack and as a Muslim born/raised person I'm scared ****less.


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## WeedZ (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> Are you insane? Do you actually think this is in any way an "act of revenge" as opposed to blatant Islamophobia? What if somebody killed a whole bunch of Christians because of what the KKK did? Bet you'd be surprised it happened THEN. Why does the west have such a massive problem with generalisation of that which is foreign.


That would actually make sense. It seems England is having issues with punishing it's citizens for expressing their anger. Alot of free speech issues atm. I can see someone who has just lost a loved one, and fear of being punished for publicly expressing their pain, going into rage of revenge. I don't think it's right. But it is possible, maybe even likely.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> That would actually make sense. It seems England is having issues with punishing it's citizens for expressing their anger. Alot of free speech issues atm. I can see someone who has just lost a loved one, and fear of being punished for publicly expressing their pain, going into rage of revenge. I don't think it's right. But it is possible, maybe even likely.


No doubt, but the only thing standing between just having a lot of pent up rage and the intent to do real harm on such a scale to a bunch of innocent people just because they're from the same religious background (even that is arguable actually) is xenophobia.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 19, 2017)

BTW, FGM are only being done in Indonesia, it's illegal in most of Muslim states and has never been part of Islamic law. Back on topic, yeah, that's stupid. But remember that along with Christians, Muslims are being harrassed by ISIS everyday in Syria and Irak. (If you ever wondered why refugees were coming to Europe, that's the reason, something called ISIS.) And did you see Saudia Arabia and friends blocking Qatar because they are "backing terrorism" while they are tghemselves giving oil and money to ISI? That's plein bullshit. I hate the hypocrisy of S. Arabia and neighbor countries. They try to make the world believe they are fighting ISIS while they are ISIS themselves.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> BTW, FGM are only being done in Indonesia, it's illegal in most of Muslim states and has never been part of Islamic law. Back on topic, yeah, that's stupid. But remember that along with Christians, Muslims are being harrassed by ISIS everyday in Syria and Irak. (If you ever wondered why refugees were coming to Europe, that's the reason, something called ISIS.) And did you see Saudia Arabia and friends blocking Qatar because they are "backing terrorism" while they are tghemselves giving oil and money to ISI? That's plein bullshit. I hate the hypocrisy of S. Arabia and neighbor countries. They try to make the world believe they are fighting ISIS while they are ISIS themselves.


Spot-on man. You seem to have a good grasp of what's actually happening out here in the Middle East. They're trying to combat terrorism just as much as the west but these efforts remain quiet and unreported because sometimes it's just nice to have the entire community to blame.


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## WeedZ (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> No doubt, but the only thing standing between just having a lot of pent up rage and the intent to do real harm on such a scale to a bunch of innocent people just because they're from the same religious background (even that is arguable actually) is xenophobia.


I suppose that's technically correct. But if you were bitten by a black widow and almost died, wouldn't you be an arachnophobe and hate _all_ spiders? I think his point is that the revenge scenario wouldn't just be mindless ignorance, as it is in most cases.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> Spot-on man. You seem to have a good grasp of what's actually happening out here in the Middle East. They're trying to combat terrorism just as much as the west but these efforts remain quiet and unreported because sometimes it's just nice to have the entire community to blame.


Yeah, for example we forget that the Kurdish people (harrassed by Erdogan) and the Iraqi govt are doing most of the job against ISIS, and are trying since 6 months to win Mossul without killing all the civilians.


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## Hayleia (Jun 19, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> I suppose that's technically correct. But if you were bitten by a black widow and almost died, wouldn't you be an arachnophobe and hate _all_ spiders? I think his point is that the revenge scenario wouldn't just be mindless ignorance, as it is in most cases.


You would hate all spiders, but not all insects. So why hate all muslims instead of all terrorists? Or if you like generalizations, why not hate all humans then? (not _you_ but the same "you" as in your example).


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## leon315 (Jun 19, 2017)

Just stay calm guys, it could be a Isis bihind of it: killing their own muslims pretending as white extremists just to increase the hatred between muslim and London's citizens. 

So Isis might the cancer after this attack.


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## Vipera (Jun 19, 2017)

_This post has been removed due to the staff's corruption to money and other people._


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## CallmeBerto (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> Are you insane? Do you actually think this is in any way an "act of revenge" as opposed to blatant Islamophobia? What if somebody killed a whole bunch of Christians because of what the KKK did? Bet you'd be surprised it happened THEN. Why does the west have such a massive problem with generalisation of that which is foreign.
> 
> Every Muslim I've ever met (of which there are plenty since I grew up in a Muslim community) is vehemently opposed to ISIS and every recent screwed up religiously motivated attack. I shouldn't even have to say this.
> 
> ...



Ok let's say for a second it is Islamophobia?...where did this fear come from? Could it be that this man lost some loved ones to Muslim terrorist and nobody gave a shit about it and when he voiced his concerns they just called him a Islamophobia and wrote him off? Yeah experience that crap and see if you don't let the anger in your heart take over.

I stand by what I said.

All these attacks and what do you do? Double down what the hell did you expect would happen?

oh and I find it rich that the left calls this a white terrorist attack while completely tip toeing around the Muslim terrorist attacks that have been going on. You people are a joke. ( not you the left in general )


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## WeedZ (Jun 19, 2017)

Hayleia said:


> You would hate all spiders, but not all insects. So why hate all muslims instead of all terrorists? Or if you like generalizations, why not hate all humans then? (not _you_ but the same "you" as in your example).


Good point. Most people generalize more specifically. I think the New York attack kicked it off. People were looking for the country responsible as acts of war are usually one nation against another, which at the time they were told was Afghanistan. Then as the US wanted to spread across the middle east it included several other countries. The need for a single entity to blame eventually evolved to islam, as that was the most obvious commonality. Again, I don't agree with it. I'm just sharing my observations. You can't fix mass hysteria unfortunately.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

leon315 said:


> Just stay calm guys, it could be a Isis bihind of it: killing their own muslims pretending as white extremists just to increase the hatred between muslim and London's citizens.
> 
> So Isis might the cancer after this attack.



That would the a VERY INTERESTING outcome and actually perhaps what the UK needs right now..... because essentially so far ISIS's victims in the west have mostly been NON-Muslims. Now i now that they have killed Muslims in the east but that isn't as heavily focused on by the media. 

But if the police investigation did conclude that outcome then perhaps this could blow up big, enough to show the entire UK and world that everyone is a victim to the dogs that are ISIS.

Another interesting discussion here would be the fact that. WHY haven't ISIS been killing Muslims on a regular basis like they have non Muslims? (in the west i mean)
Is it perhaps their plan to avoid killing Muslims in order to increase hate between different communities within the UK. So that the west destroys itself from the inside.
i now it sounds ridiculous but if terrorists attacks became a weekly thing in the UK,(like literally weekly) i do believe that more and more people would turn on each other and that would lead to record spikes in hate crimes.

From strategic point such a plan is one worthy of a appraisal if it wasn't so horrific.


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 19, 2017)

I am a non-religious person with a Roman Catholic background, would you accept my "fuck you" as well Mr. Snake?
I mean, so you reconsider that line about *just muslims* feeling entitled to tell anybody that normalizes killing of random pedestrians to go fuck himself.


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## WeedZ (Jun 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> That would the a VERY INTERESTING outcome and actually perhaps what the UK needs right now..... because essentially so far ISIS's victims in the west have mostly been NON-Muslims. Now i now that they have killed Muslims in the east but that isn't as heavily focused on by the media.
> 
> But if the police investigation did conclude that outcome then perhaps this could blow up big, enough to show the entire UK and world that everyone is a victim to the dogs that are ISIS.
> 
> ...


The only flaw there is that it is considered an unforgivable sin to knowingly kill true believers. Also ironic, the Quran also says that Christians and jews are true believers, so I can't really explain that one.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> The only flaw there is that it is considered an unforgivable sin to knowingly kill true believers. Also ironic, the Quran also says that Christians and jews are true believers, so I can't really explain that one.




ISIS are not logical, they are animals. So please treat them as such.

Dont try to think of the "Whys". They are just a plague that needs to be purged from our world


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> Ok let's say for a second it is Islamophobia?...where did this fear come from? Could it be that this man lost some loved ones to Muslim terrorist and nobody gave a shit about it and when he voiced his concerns they just called him a Islamophobia and wrote him off? Yeah experience that crap and see if you don't let the anger in your heart take over.
> 
> I stand by what I said.
> 
> ...


Whether you've lost somebody to an "Islam motivated" terrorist attack or not, as much as grief is understandable, contempt for the whole community is still wrong and misdirected. It's a complex and sensitive topic, but it is what it is.

I live 20 mins away from the Finsbury Park mosque and if I get hit by a van because I was raised in a Muslim household it's not "understandable" it's bullshit and it's scary. I am genuinely so sorry that these things happen, and believe me the only reason ISIS hasn't been stopped is because most Middle East countries are led by totalitarian governments that only care about their own money and interests and act completely independently of what the people want. We don't have the ability to form up and resist; our governments are insane.

Just be careful where you point fingers.

Anyway, I don't know why the discussion is revolving around religiously motivated attacks when this in particular is a case of that NOT happening. Unlike recent events there was no big evil group here, just some guy with a really bad unresolved grudge.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> So as the title says, only 9 minutes ago at the time of writing, a van hit a number of people on their way out from prayer at Finsbury Park Mosque in London.
> 
> So what are your thoughts? Was it justified killing innocent Muslims because of the London and Manchester terror attacks? Or is it another sign of the perpetuating violence in our society?
> 
> Source



of course its not justified. how would this ever be justified?
not to say that, should it turn out that this was meant to be an act of revenge against islam, one wouldn't be able to understand the persons reasoning to some degree, as one should be able to understand why IS and its supporters chose to act through this form of terror.
but that doesn't mean its justified in any way.

the thing that moderately upsets me about this story is, how its handled only as a 'potential act of terrorism' at least by how the german press seems to translate the uk news reports.
and i'm just barely surprised how when the guy drives into a crowd of muslims apparently, the police doesn't seem to find enough reason to gun him down on the spot like they usually do when someone arabic-looking goes on a rampage.
(again, dont get me wrong, the problem isn't that they didn't gun this person down, its that they gun everyone else down so we never get a good glimpse into the mind of a radicalized person thats never been to syria etc)


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 19, 2017)

Tbh something like this was bound to happen at some point,  sure it's a sick attack but given the spate of attacks this summer, one nut job was eventually going to think "fuck this lets see how they like it" (yes there is mental idiots on both sides)

Now I feel the real lesson to be learnt is to stop with the 2 teir policing which is breeding resentment on both sides, the fact non Muslims get hunted down and thrown in jail for stupidly throwing a bit of bacon whilst a radical Muslim with known extremist views just get added to a fantasy watch list but never detained unless they actually blow something up or stab someone is raising animosity way more than it otherwise would.

For a fair society to exist everyone must be treated equally, the media have a role to play too, people are not dumb so they need to stop framing their news as every concern a Minority has as totally legit and any concern of any white person as totally unjust and racist, there is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed with the seemingly rampant extremism in the UK and pretending it doesn't exist and penalizing anyone who even asks what's going on with some Muslims being radicalized from within a western country

As for the urghhh see they shoot the poor misunderstood Muslim terrorists and not the evil evil white guy, the police can only shoot if the person in question poses a imminent threat to life, as he wasn't mid stabbing someone to death like the past 5 Muslim terrorists or in peices before they go to the scene it stands to reason they didnt have to shoot him, the difference is the Muslim terrorists want to die so they will purposefully not stop for armed police but instead try to rush them to force them to shoot


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## barronwaffles (Jun 19, 2017)

Helter skelter baby


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

leon315 said:


> Just stay calm guys, it could be a Isis bihind of it: killing their own muslims pretending as white extremists just to increase the hatred between muslim and London's citizens.
> 
> So Isis might the cancer after this attack.


Ditto. This feels like a false flag so that people get divided even more.

Let's not forget that people are easy to influence so there's that, too. The other day there was a protest about the Grenfell Tower where the protesters physically attacked an innocent person because they thought he was part of the Tory party or whatever.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/876775518523318272

Can't catch a break.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

I just saw the clip of the moment he was caught after he hit the victims.

the clip itself was 5 mins long and no police or ambulances showed up during that time frame. There were bodies all over the floor and there were 5 Muslim men trying to hold off the angry friends and family members of the victims who wanted to kill the attacker for what he had just done.  

This is the first video that i have ever seen off the actual attack and its victims before the police red taped it. so its very harrowing to see the bodies just laying there...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

UK's not safe for anyone at this point.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> UK's not safe for anyone at this point.



nowhere is safe. its our job to make it safe though. for our childrens sake


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> nowhere is safe. its our job to make it safe though. for our childrens sake


London is more at risk than other cities as this is starting to occur daily.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> London is more at risk than other cities as this is starting to occur daily.




are the London coppers still carrying guns or is that over now?


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> are the London coppers still carrying guns or is that over now?


Wasn't it reported that a large majority of Brit cops don't carry guns? They should but it doesn't mean they'd necessarily protect civilians either.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Wasn't it reported that a large majority of Brit cops don't carry guns? They should but it doesn't mean they'd necessarily protect civilians either.



Yes majority of them will never carry one. but the London ones were after the recent attacks. but i think that has reverted back to standard procedure meaning no guns.

Also your right. Personally, i think the guns could cause a lot of harm too since well an attacker could target those coppers and take the gun and go on a shooting spree.


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## Haider Raza (Jun 19, 2017)

Sad news, I knew something like this would happen soon. Well what do expect from lunatics. These people do the same as Al-qaida but they claim it right. So many uneducated Racist MFs are out there. Muslims should look out they should know media has brain Fkd so many people they should be careful out there.


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 19, 2017)

I have personally seen armed police around city centres since the attacks, but while armed police will probably never be the norm, there is probably going to be armed police dotted around city centres to respond to any incidents even if they aren't patrolling the streets with guns on show


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## gjac1 (Jun 19, 2017)

Why are they calling this guy a terrorist ?? just to please the Muslim commuinty ? this is a hate crime , not *terrorism*


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## Haider Raza (Jun 19, 2017)

gjac1 said:


> Why are they calling this guy a terrorist ?? just to please the Muslim commuinty ? this is a hate crime , not *terrorism*


Well it is a cause of terror. Now some muslims will be scared going out on streets. It is a act of Violence/Hatred & Terror.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

If the police cared about the people then they would have straight up told the Grenfell Tower residents (now victims) to leave the building but no, they just gave them a warning of what was to come.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gjac1 said:


> Why are they calling this guy a terrorist ?? just to please the Muslim commuinty ? this is a hate crime , not *terrorism*


There's been another terrorist-related matter just recently: https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/876775518523318272

It's out of control.


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## gjac1 (Jun 19, 2017)

So if a white guy has a fight with a muslim guy and makes him scared to go out, does that make the white guy a terrorist ? If the 2 London attacks and Manchester attack had not happened in the past 3 months, this would be talked about as a hate cime not terrorism



Haider Raza said:


> Well it is a cause of terror. Now some muslims will be scared going out on streets. It is a act of Violence/Hatred & Terror.


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## Haider Raza (Jun 19, 2017)

gjac1 said:


> ..


Definition of terrorist/terrorism
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Also causing terror in peoples hearts.


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## Olmectron (Jun 19, 2017)

This is wrong. 

The world is wrong. 

Someone should make something. Why are we so weak to make a change?

This happens where I live everyday. But not from one race or religion to another, but from the same people to themselves. And this still is a tragedy for me. 

Thoughts on the victims' families.


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## gjac1 (Jun 19, 2017)

There is no comparission here. This white guy was wrong to do what he did against innocent Muslims, no one has the right to take or try to take another person life , but to compare what this guy did to real acts of terror we have seen all over the world since 911 is ridiculous.

Next you will say the council of Kensington are terroists because of all the Muslims that died in Grenfell tower, they put innocent lives at risk and now everyone who lives in similar towers are scared for their lifes too


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 19, 2017)

Actually, who cares if the victims were Muslims? A mentally retarded jerk took a truck and killed someone, that's all.


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## MadMageKefka (Jun 19, 2017)

Is this justified? Fuck no.... Is it expected? Duh. When a group of people push others' buttons, the ENTIRE group pays for it. I'm not saying this is right, it's not, but it's how the world works. Republicans piss off the entire USA? Some guy goes and shoots a bunch of them. Muslims kill innocents on almost a DAILY basis? You can bet eventually things like this are going to happen. I feel bad for any innocent Muslims caught up in this, but that's what ANY religion gets you... A bunch of extremist idiots. If you decide to be part of those groups, then you've kinda made your own bed. I'm not saying that religious people should HAVE to endure this kind of bullshit, I'm saying they are GOING to, whether we / they like it or not. It just comes with the territory and no amount of bitching is going to fix it.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 19, 2017)

What's funny is that most extreme-right people saying Islam is cancer etc. seem to always say 'true' Islam would be the ISIS/Saudi Arabia one, and that it's the religion itself's fault. But they forget that out there there are tens of millions of moderate Muslims, who like every Buddhist, or Christian or Jew in Occidental countries or even in Maghreb countries, live peacefully and don't bother anyone with their religion. Why not consider these (who are the vast majority of Muslims btw) as the 'true' Muslims? It's like if I was saying the reference for Christian people was the Ku Kux Klan, and then call the Christian religion the culprit. That's fucking absurd.


Also, I've seen a lot of people saying there was no recognized Muslim leader who had clearly placed himslef against terrorism. This is false. I suggest all of you to read King Mohammed IV of Morroco's speech on Moroccan Revolution Day last summer. The speech is brilliant and was praised by most intellectuals and journalist out there.
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/20...ammed-vis-speech-king-peoples-revolution-day/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MadMageKefka said:


> Is this justified? Fuck no.... Is it expected? Duh. When a group of people push others' buttons, the ENTIRE group pays for it. I'm not saying this is right, it's not, but it's how the world works. Republicans piss off the entire USA? Some guy goes and shoots a bunch of them. Muslims kill innocents on almost a DAILY basis? You can bet eventually things like this are going to happen. I feel bad for any innocent Muslims caught up in this, but that's what ANY religion gets you... A bunch of extremist idiots. If you decide to be part of those groups, then you've kinda made your own bed. I'm not saying that religious people should HAVE to endure this kind of bullshit, I'm saying they are GOING to, whether we / they like it or not. It just comes with the territory and no amount of bitching is going to fix it.


This is sooooooooooo true. Any religion will have a bunch of extremists who shit on the entire religion's reputation. And dumbass governments like in Iran and Saudi Arabia don't improve the situation.


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## Deleted User (Jun 19, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Definition of terrorist/terrorism
> A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
> 
> Also causing terror in peoples hearts.


Put yourself in a world where there haven't been London terrorist attacks in the past 3 months. Then, think about this attack.

It is a *hate crime.* A *terrorist attack* is something surrounding politics.

Here you have a hate crime because there is no political motivation released.

Now, think about the 4 African Americans who tortured an autistic white student just because he was autistic. They tortured him in the name of Trump.
President Obama classified that as neither a hate crime or a terrorist attack.

So really, it comes down to personal beliefs. Was this a terrorist attack? Well, you have to figure that one out on your own.

But if you think about it, technically any murder/serial murderer should be considered a terrorist by your logic of "Also causing terror in peoples hearts".


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## Spider_Man (Jun 19, 2017)

thing is, is this going to get more media coverage and classed as a racial attack, or was it a terrorist attack knowing it would cause a racial divide and uproar?

either way, the media causes such hate towards the muslim community by branding them the way they do and the simple minded people fail to understand that anyone from any country can be muslim, its a religion not a nation.

and it will piss me off if we then see other government parties use this tragic event as a means to slag off the rival parties, when fact is regardless if they were in power theyd still be siding with the powers that be and causing wars just to profit from it.

that is why i dont vote because theyre all full of crap.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

Now there's been a police car crash in Paris.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> It's infuriating that it has happened again. I don't care what one's beliefs are, innocent people are innocent. Period.
> 
> Seeing how Theresa May and the UK govt are pushing so hard for censorship it wouldn't come as a surprise if this was part of the plan to legalise 'Islamophobia' as a real hate crime.
> 
> God damn it. Just a day without some tragedy!



Do you mean islamophobia as in words, or killing muslim people?


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Do you mean islamophobia as in words, or killing muslim people?


Which one do you think?


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Now there's been a police car crash in Paris.


Well, shit. Less than 10 miles away from where I live, again.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Well, shit. Less than 10 miles away from where I live, again.


It's just part of living in a big city, you know.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Which one do you think?



Honestly, I don't have much of a clue.
Anyway, Racism is illegal and so is the hatred for any religion.
I think you should make the distinction though, Islamaphobia and criticism of Islam are two very different beasts.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Saiyan Lusitano said:


> It's just part of living in a big city, you know.



It really is at this point, hopefully things die down as security is increased in Europe.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Honestly, I don't have much of a clue.


The former.



TheDarkGreninja said:


> It really is at this point, hopefully things die down as security is increased in Europe.


Western and Soutern Europe are screwed. These attacks aren't going to stop.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Eventually people will learn to abolish organized religion. Give it a couple hundred more years and another world war or two.



I dont think the world wars are a good example seeing as how they were fueled by nationalism.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Western and Soutern Europe are screwed. These attacks aren't going to stop.



Just trying to stay positive in these trying times.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 19, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> Tbh something like this was bound to happen at some point,  sure it's a sick attack but given the spate of attacks this summer, one nut job was eventually going to think "fuck this lets see how they like it" (yes there is mental idiots on both sides)
> 
> Now I feel the real lesson to be learnt is to stop with the 2 teir policing which is breeding resentment on both sides, the fact non Muslims get hunted down and thrown in jail for stupidly throwing a bit of bacon whilst a radical Muslim with known extremist views just get added to a fantasy watch list but never detained unless they actually blow something up or stab someone is raising animosity way more than it otherwise would.
> 
> For a fair society to exist everyone must be treated equally



you seem to have some very interesting ideas of how everyone being treated equally works.

the thing is, as of now, its still not against the law to have radical views. not when it comes to islam, religion in general, weapons, politics or any other thing. just having views is not illegal.
which is why you can't just detain people for thought-crimes.

on the other hand, your 'non muslims throwing a bit of bacon' kinda frames the story i think you're referencing as if someone threw one piece of meat at some muslim on the street almost by accident, when it was two drunk guys, crashing a mosque during sermon, yelling obscenities and then throwing around bacon which in some way is the equivalent to crashing one of those black preaching churches, throwing bananas into the rows while imitating a monkey or something.

they were rightfully convicted on hate crime basis, to what i hear is barely a slap on the hand when it comes to minor crimes comited by muslims or black people, at least according to every other person commenting on news websites ever.


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## Justinde75 (Jun 19, 2017)

Ugh get that shit out of here. Dont bring these useless discussions in here. Literally nothing positive comes out of these threads.


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## _v3 (Jun 19, 2017)

Useless bloodshed, when is it going to end???
They took it out on people who were, most probably, completely innocent. There's no justification for taking someone's life, makes me sick that these people live among us.


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## emigre (Jun 19, 2017)

As a Welshman, I want to categorically state this Darron Osborne does not represent all Welshmen.


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## OverBlade24 (Jun 19, 2017)

clownb said:


> Of course it was not justified, but you can not definitively state that the victims were innocent either.


So someone with no connection to another person is at fault because the other chooses to kill someone in a false ideal. 
These terrorists are false Muslims that use Islam as a scape goat to hide their bitch asses behind. So how are you going to push this on to someone and say they can die because of what other people did. Just cuz some white guy shoots up a school, is it then justifiable to kill whites. You can not justify the murder of someone innocent


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

OverBlade24 said:


> So someone with no connection to another person is at fault because the other chooses to kill someone in a false ideal.
> These terrorists are false Muslims that use Islam as a scape goat to hide their bitch asses behind. So how are you going to push this on to someone and say they can die because of what other people did. Just cuz some white guy shoots up a school, is it then justifiable to kill whites. You can not justify the murder of someone innocent



If that so why do they not kill any Muslims in the UK or any other EU country on these terrorist attacks? I read of a terrorist attack where the ISIS fighters went about the streets firing on people and killing them yet one person they came across in a restaurant started speaking out loud from the Koran and so they didn't shoot them and let them live? If you ask me this is a Religion and not just a scapegoat situation.


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## OverBlade24 (Jun 19, 2017)

gjac1 said:


> So if a white guy has a fight with a muslim guy and makes him scared to go out, does that make the white guy a terrorist ? If the 2 London attacks and Manchester attack had not happened in the past 3 months, this would be talked about as a hate cime not terrorism


Your comparison here is fuckin retarded. I didn't know a fist fight and ramming into people stood on the same level of crime. Thanks for informing me


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Justinde75 said:


> Ugh get that shit out of here. Dont bring these useless discussions in here. Literally nothing positive comes out of these threads.



I consider all forms of discussion positive. Usually these threads get locked down because one nut job wants to talk about the most off topic crap.


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## gjac1 (Jun 19, 2017)

OverBlade24 said:


> Your comparison here is fuckin retarded. I didn't know a fist fight and ramming into people stood on the same level of crime. Thanks for informing me



Did you read what i was replying to ?? I was replying to a comment saying terrorism is something that describes "putting fear in someones heart" , so i was saying that making a muslim scared is an act of terrorism ??

The only retard here is you, ramming people with a car because you wanted to kill some people of a different race, sex, sexual orientation or religion to you is a HATE CRIME. This guy was not part of a terror  group or was brainwashed by far right views online, he is unstable.

The English PM is calling this a terror crime just to please the muslims , end of

Stop with your noob comments if you have no idea what you are talking about


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> If that so why do they not kill any Muslims in the UK or any other EU country on these terrorist attacks? I read of a terrorist attack where the ISIS fighters went about the streets firing on people and killing them yet one person they came across in a restaurant started speaking out loud from the Koran and so they didn't shoot them and let them live? If you ask me this is a Religion and not just a scapegoat situation.



What the hell are you on about?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gjac1 said:


> Did you read what i was replying to ?? I was replying to a comment saying terrorism is something that describes "putting fear in someones heart" , so i was saying that making a muslim scared is an act of terrorism ??
> 
> The only retard here is you, ramming people with a car because you wanted to kill some people of a different race, sex, sexual orientation or religion to you is a HATE CRIME. This guy was not part of a terror  group or was brainwashed by far right views online, he is unstable.
> 
> ...



Terrorism:
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Political aims is a vague term. However, killing innocent people is always a terrorist attack.
Moreover, it's this bullshit logic that grinds my gears, your argument boils down to "If he's not muslim, he isnt a terrorist"
You see, if I, a British Muslim, went out and killed a bunch of white people because of my hatred for what white people, would you call that a hate crime?
9 times out of 10 you'll say it "was fueled by his religious beliefs" which I can assure you is bullshit as all my siblings, parents and my wife are white.

So to make this clear, terrorism is a number of things, there is no clear-cut definition of it.


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## OverBlade24 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> If that so why do they not kill any Muslims in the UK or any other EU country on these terrorist attacks? I read of a terrorist attack where the ISIS fighters went about the streets firing on people and killing them yet one person they came across in a restaurant started speaking out loud from the Koran and so they didn't shoot them and let them live? If you ask me this is a Religion and not just a scapegoat situation.


This contains script from the *Qur'an (you're welcome). Just cuz you are on a killing spree and you see a cute child and do not kill him/her, does not equal you becoming a good person or a hero.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> yet one person they came across in a restaurant started speaking out loud from the Koran and so they didn't shoot them and let them live? If you ask me this is a Religion and not just a scapegoat situation.



Just re-read this and it gave me a good chuckle. If these guys want to look like genuine Islamists why would they kill muslims? Just think about that for a sec, it has nothing to with religion, it's basic logic.
It's like shooting your own foot.
Would you kill British expats in other countries and then go on to say "We british need to stick together"? No, it doesnt make any sense, why would you kill one of your own if you truly want to push an agenda?
That's like killing every liberal that would vote and going on to say "I'm a liberal." You clearly are not if you're going to kill every one of your own.
Would you say "I love mother" and then kill her? No, it's self-contradictory.


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## OverBlade24 (Jun 19, 2017)

gjac1 said:


> Did you read what i was replying to ?? I was replying to a comment saying terrorism is something that describes "putting fear in someones heart" , so i was saying that making a muslim scared is an act of terrorism ??
> 
> The only retard here is you, ramming people with a car because you wanted to kill some people of a different race, sex, sexual orientation or religion to you is a HATE CRIME. This guy was not part of a terror  group or was brainwashed by far right views online, he is unstable.
> 
> ...



Calls out for noob comments
Gets rammed by OP


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Just re-read this and it gave me a good chuckle. If these guys want to look like genuine Islamists why would they kill muslims? Just think about that for a sec, it has nothing to with religion, it's basic logic.
> It's like shooting your own foot.
> Would you kill British expats in other countries and then go on to say "We british need to stick together"? No, it doesnt make any sense, why would you kill one of your own if you truly want to push an agenda?
> That's like killing every liberal that would vote and going on to say "I'm a liberal." You clearly are not if you're going to kill every one of your own.
> Would you say "I love mother" and then kill her? No, it's self-contradictory.



Stop pandering you cretin.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Stop pandering you cretin.



Thanks for proving me right


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## tunip3 (Jun 19, 2017)

Stephano said:


> It doesn't make it right. Yes there have been tons of attacks in the name of Islam but murder is murder. Now matter who causes it.
> People are afraid and fear mongering will be the end to so many, even if fear may be justified. I'm not defending the horrible acts that have been done in the name of Islam, but nor will I defend these acts either.


Not the name of Islam. Islam is religion of peace you mean in the supposed name of Islam according to isis


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Stop pandering you cretin.


Top kek ad-hominem.
Wow, haven't seen one so hollow in a long time.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Top kek ad-hominem.
> Wow, haven't seen one so hollow in a long time.


I know right? Could've at least put some effort, now I feel like I'm not worth it


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## gjac1 (Jun 19, 2017)

OverBlade24 said:


> Calls out for noob comments
> Gets rammed by OP



That made no sense, just like you. People like you is why we have so many problems in the world


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> I know right? Could've at least put some effort, now I feel like I'm not worth it


corbin still loves you.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> corbin still loves you.



Was that an attempt at offending me? Lol. I voted for Tim by the way.
But stop trying to digress things.


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## bi388 (Jun 19, 2017)

Jesus christ all this shit does is shut down dialogue and convince either side the other is evil and needs to be killed. This perpetuates fear of both sides about each other. Have any of these people tried to start a dialogue? Have any of these people who kill Muslims tried to talk to a non radical Muslim and had an intelligent conversation about what they believe and why? Even try talking to a radical. Obviously they aren't going to be converted but open up dialogue. Maybe you can show them why they are wrong. And the other way around too. Radical Muslims never try to talk to Christians, or athiests, or Americans etc. Learn about other cultures, open up conversation. If they're still going to commit acts of terror afterwards I can't stop them but I at least ask they learn who they are killing. Both sides.


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## chrisrlink (Jun 19, 2017)

being a former muslim (if you call me even that I jumped ship after my engagement got broken off) anyways right on muslims beng human and DO NOT deserve this what would happen if catholics started major terror attacks we would condemn the attacks but not purge Christians double standard there anyways no one deserves this i ASSUME it's a game of follow the leader not many attacks on muslims by non muslims occuured until after people like trump and former canadian PM harper assumed power now all these hate groups like the KKK thinks it's alright to kill muslims


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## Haider Raza (Jun 19, 2017)

blujay said:


> ....


Go check tommy robinson & britain first.


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## Deleted User (Jun 19, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Go check tommy robinson.


I don't have the time nor care a whole lot to research it. What happened was bad.

Was it politically motivated? If so, you were right. If not, then I was right.


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## Mansize (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Just re-read this and it gave me a good chuckle. If these guys want to look like genuine Islamists why would they kill muslims? Just think about that for a sec, it has nothing to with religion, it's basic logic.
> It's like shooting your own foot.
> Would you kill British expats in other countries and then go on to say "We british need to stick together"? No, it doesnt make any sense, why would you kill one of your own if you truly want to push an agenda?
> That's like killing every liberal that would vote and going on to say "I'm a liberal." You clearly are not if you're going to kill every one of your own.
> Would you say "I love mother" and then kill her? No, it's self-contradictory.



Psychology behind terrorism isnt that simple. Religious madness can well justify terrorist attacks on people of the same faith. This used to happen in the West too. Just look at the terrorist invasions from poor and bleak France launched in high medieval times upon their fellow Christian neighbours in Toulouse/Languedoc. A brutal 20 year war and mass burnings of heretics was the result. Infamously, wholesale slaughter after a succesful siege was the norm; even though the pretense was heresy, Catholics were often offered no quarter / were slaughtered alike.  No pope up to date has even apologized for it yet. 

"But that was all so long ago." Yes, but that is the difference between us and them, and the problem. We will never get it. Our modern mind cannot understand committing such heinous crimes like flying into the WTC or to go on a crusade "to walk like Him in the lands of Provence." Our modern minds are focussed on the present and future, while  the apocalyptic mind thinks we are at the end of things, and mostly looks back to what has already happened.


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## Haider Raza (Jun 19, 2017)

blujay said:


> *I don't have the time nor care a whole lot to research it.*


Then don't say something that you don't know of.



blujay said:


> *Was it politically motivated?*


Yes indeed.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Mansize said:


> Psychology behind terrorism isnt that simple. Religious madness can well justify terrorist attacks on people of the same faith. This used to happen in the West too. Just look at the terrorist invasions from poor and bleak France launched in high medieval times upon their fellow Christian neighbours in Toulouse/Languedoc. A brutal 20 year war and mass burnings of heretics was the result. Infamously, wholesale slaughter after a succesful siege was the norm; even though the pretense was heresy, Catholics were often offered no quarter / were slaughtered alike.  No pope up to date has even apologized for it yet.
> 
> "But that was all so long ago." Yes, but that is the difference between us and them, and the problem. We will never get it. Our modern mind cannot understand committing such heinous crimes like flying into the WTC or to go on a crusade "to walk like Him in the lands of Provence." Our modern minds are focussed on the present and future, while  the apocalyptic mind thinks we are at the end of things, and mostly looks back to what has already happened.



Of course, I'm not saying the psychology of terrorism is simple. What I am saying is that the logic behind a successful terrorist organisation often is.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

i really think its time the superpowers like America and Russia stop this infighting and start fighting together against ISIS.

I mean imagine if the worlds current 6 superpowers sent their entire militia into Countries like Syria and hunted ISIS and Al Qaeda like the dogs that they are. These attacks would cease and even if they continued it would be minimal causalities at best. All the superpowers need to do is band together and take whatever territory that the terrorists control. If the terrorists have no territory then its just a matter of taking them out with drones.

And before anyone says, THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THIS, true but they are fighting like sheep right now.All they are doing is either resupplying ISIS's opposition and not actually putting thousands of soldiers on the ground. If america and Russia alone shipped out their entire army that would easily out power ISIS. So imagine what would happen, if the entire armies of the worlds 6 superpowers, were sent into countries like Syria. Yes there would be deaths for isis and the 6 superpowers.... but all they would need to do is cover the ground killing whatever IS dipshit that comes into view. This is the BEST way to deal with ISIS since wayyyy less innocents would die since NO airstrikes would be needed since it would be hand to hand combat. Good old fashion caveman shit. i mean IS would be overpowered by all 6 world armies and there would be a lot less deaths in the west.

If the current governments dont deal with ISIS NOW! then your children will pay the ultimate price. Just imagine if isis got ahold of a countries nuke briefcase....

Also dont now if anyone heard but ISIS's leader was apparently taken out by the Russians a few weeks back....


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## CallmeBerto (Jun 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> i really think its time the superpowers like America and Russia stop this infighting and start fighting together against ISIS.
> 
> I mean imagine if the worlds current 6 superpowers sent their entire militia into Countries like Syria and hunted ISIS and Al Qaeda like the dogs that they are. These attacks would cease and even if they continued it would be minimal causalities at best. All the superpowers need to do is band together and take whatever territory that the terrorists control. If the terrorists have no territory then its just a matter of taking them out with drones.
> 
> ...




Us going there and leaving too early is what caused ISIS to be born. If we were do this we can't make the same mistake again. (which we will)


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## Stephano (Jun 19, 2017)

tunip3 said:


> Not the name of Islam. Islam is religion of peace you mean in the supposed name of Islam according to isis


Unfortunately no, i don't mean that.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Stephano said:


> Unfortunately no, i don't mean that.


Then I'd have to disagree.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> Us going there and leaving too early is what caused ISIS to be born. If we were do this we can't make the same mistake again. (which we will)




You dont get my point. i mean we send EVERYONE!! all 6 world armies by the THOUSANDS into isis territory


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## Stephano (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Then I'd have to disagree.


And you are free to do so. I have been proven many things on both sides of this coin. Its hard to make out what is truth and what is not. Everyone is free do disagree and that is awesome. I just need to see more of everything to make a firm opinion. I didn't mean to offend anyone, hopefully you can understand why i am caught.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> You dont get my point. i mean we send EVERYONE!! all 6 world armies by the THOUSANDS into isis territory


lol a few bombs would ruin them.


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## Mansize (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Of course, I'm not saying the psychology of terrorism is simple. What I am saying is that the logic behind a successful terrorist organisation often is.



Yeah so I'd say it is logical for a terrorist to sacrifice fellow believers for the greater cause in some cases, especially when you believe in predestination. "Kill them all. God will know his own."

Ignoring that this is otherwise completely psychotic, of course.


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## Abu_Senpai (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> lol a few bombs would ruin them.



NO!! BOMBS are not the way to do it. hand to hand is better and alot less chance of killing the innocents


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## CallmeBerto (Jun 19, 2017)

Yeah the problem with bombs is that we are never sure we are only killing them. Though killing them all won't solve the problem per say as it's an idea and ideas are really hard to kill. You need to change the way people think. Unfortunally it might be too late for those who already joined.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

Stephano said:


> And you are free to do so. I have been proven many things on both sides of this coin. Its hard to make out what is truth and what is not. Everyone is free do disagree and that is awesome. I just need to see more of everything to make a firm opinion. I didn't mean to offend anyone, hopefully you can understand why i am caught.



I understand, topics surrounding religion, theism and philosophy are some of the most vague and confusing out there. I'm always for debate, a world without the freedom to do so is a world I don't want to live in.


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 19, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> you seem to have some very interesting ideas of how everyone being treated equally works.
> 
> the thing is, as of now, its still not against the law to have radical views. not when it comes to islam, religion in general, weapons, politics or any other thing. just having views is not illegal.
> which is why you can't just detain people for thought-crimes.
> ...


thats fact you seem to think going to prison for calling someone names and throwing bacon is absurd, meanwhile at least one of the recent terrorists was well known for spreading actual violent hatespeach and glorifying the deaths of westerners, I'm sorry but imho childish idiotic actions like the bacon incident could be easily dealt with by slapping a fine on them and a restraining order or something, prison should really be reserved for real crimes, and personally I see trying to spread a message to murder and kill innocent people as a much worse crime than calling a religion names and throwing bacon, not saying either is good, but how throwing bacon is seen as worse than spreading Isis material and trying to radicalise other muslims to commit mass murders is absurd

I have personally witnessed these kinds of double standards, a guy I know was attacked as someone tried to snatch his phone and it ended in a bit of a tussle and 2 other guys joined in, but all the attackers had to say is "he was being racist" and he ends up being told by the police in a not so subtle way to not press charges against his attackers despite being attacked by 3 guys or he will be facing the more serious "hate crime" case because they are now saying he called them *insert racist name here* even though the altercation started by one of these guys trying to grab his phone

There is no way in hell a group of white guys could attack a Muslim, try to steal his phone and then say, oh well he called us white so threaten him with our special laws to get him to drop the case, k tnx

The current social and political landscape gives any minority a trump card to play whenever they do something bad, its much easier for everyone to just say wow Gary is a nazi now, than admit that their system designed to increase equality has given some criminals a protective blanket to pretty much avoid any case even being brought against them, never mind actually being found guilty

also your analogy demonstrates racism, Islam is not a race, it's a religion, a better analogy would, be throwing bacon at christians because of the child abuse scandal, while you may very well get arrested if you refuse to leave the building you almost certainly wouldn't end up in jail for it unless you were physically violent, and it certainly wouldn't make national news....local news maybe if your lucky,

look I know there is disrespect and provocation from both sides, but to the normal average everyday guy it does seem that any case against a minorty is dealt with a much more critical light, meanwhile any case against a minority is pussy footed around and the police go to lengths to avoid the PC nightmare that comes from investing a Muslim child preditor ring as people are always ready to jump to the defence of a minority even under very strong evidence but quick to condemn anyone else even with zero proof

Basically nobody should have a easily exploitable trump card that they can use to attack other people


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## Stephano (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> I understand, topics surrounding religion, theism and philosophy are some of the most vague and confusing out there. I'm always for debate, a world without the freedom to do so is a world I don't want to live in.


I completely agree. Thanks for your understanding.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> thats fact you seem to think going to prison for calling someone names and throwing bacon is absurd, meanwhile at least one of the recent terrorists was well known for spreading actual violent hatespeach and glorifying the deaths of westerners, I'm sorry but imho childish idiotic actions like the bacon incident could be easily dealt with by slapping a fine on them and a restraining order or something, prison should really be reserved for real crimes, and personally I see trying to spread a message to murder and kill innocent people as a much worse crime than calling a religion names and throwing bacon, not saying either is good, but how throwing bacon is seen as worse than spreading Isis material and trying to radicalise other muslims to commit mass murders is absurd
> 
> I have personally witnessed these kinds of double standards, a guy I know was attacked as someone tried to snatch his phone and it ended in a bit of a tussle and 2 other guys joined in, but all the attackers had to say is "he was being racist" and he ends up being told by the police in a not so subtle way to not press charges against his attackers despite being attacked by 3 guys or he will be facing the more serious "hate crime" case because they are now saying he called them *insert racist name here* even though the altercation started by one of these guys trying to grab his phone
> 
> ...



Yeah, you could chalk that all up to a shitty criminal justice system.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Yeah, you could chalk that all up to a shitty criminal justice system.



or that particular groups know how to manipulate the system.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> or that particular groups know how to manipulate the system.



Of course you'd be the one to defend our shitty government, not like it matters though, shifting the blame.


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Yeah, you could chalk that all up to a shitty criminal justice system.


Yeah it is a shitty political and criminal justice system, honestly the fact people would sit in threads and try justify terroists blowing up kids is sick, yet even during that event the PC police were busy going to work pushing that......well westerners did drop bombs on some other people, so it's kinda understandable that this guy who doesn't know anyone there and until he associated with head case preachers had no interest in blowing up kids would feel he had no choice

No, anyone killing anyone is a cunt, but targeting children on purpose is the lowest of the low imho, politicians need to get their thumbs out their arse and actually tackle the issue instead of hoping it will just disappear if they ignore it loud enough, the current system is only going to breed more and more resentment as more and more terrorist attacks happen and the political class sit inside their nice homes with protective detail outside and tell everyone to just carry on and pretend nobody got stabbed to death the day before


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 19, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> Yeah it is a shitty political and criminal justice system, honestly the fact people would sit in threads and try justify terroists blowing up kids is sick, yet even during that event the PC police were busy going to work pushing that......well westerners did drop bombs on some other people, so it's kinda understandable that this guy who doesn't know anyone there and until he associated with head case preachers had no interest in blowing up kids would feel he had no choice
> 
> No, anyone killing anyone is a cunt, but targeting children on purpose is the lowest of the low imho, politicians need to get their thumbs out their arse and actually tackle the issue instead of hoping it will just disappear if they ignore it loud enough



Causation never justifies the effect. It only explains it.


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## Mansize (Jun 19, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> The current social and political landscape gives any minority a trump card to play whenever they do something bad, its much easier for everyone to just say wow Gary is a nazi now, than admit that their system designed to increase equality has given some criminals a protective blanket to pretty much avoid any case even being brought against them, never mind actually being found guilty
> 
> also your analogy demonstrates racism, Islam is not a race, it's a religion, a better analogy would, be throwing bacon at christians because of the child abuse scandal, while you may very well get arrested if you refuse to leave the building you almost certainly wouldn't end up in jail for it unless you were physically violent, and it certainly wouldn't make national news....local news maybe if your lucky,
> 
> ...



Also, the fact that thinking only the white mind is capable of racist thoughts, is in and of itself racist. My best friend is skinny and blond, and lives in a neighbourhood where white people are rare. He has been harrassed so many times he could write a book, but the police doesnt take him seriously (even after a severe beating one time) as to the rootcause. However, I do fear there is an "atlantic gap" when posting on forums, as in the States racism might be more problematic. Whenever I read an article on "cultural appropriation" I usually roll my eyes, but I live in a neighbourhood where over 70% of the people has a non-northwestern European ethnic heritage, and everyone appropriates stuff from everyone here (in a good way), so how can I hope to understand? Also, Europe is etnically complex all by itself, so we experience stuff differenty. For example, in France alone there are 8 different native macrolanguages you can have as a mothertongue (French, Breton, Dutch, German, Italian, Occitan, Catalan and Basque), how can we hope to be understood?


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 19, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Causation never justifies the effect. It only explains it.


Half the bs people spread doesn't even explain it, most of the time it's just trying to excuse it

it's my logic that martyrdom simply acts as a conduit for the suicidal and depressed muslims to latch onto, while none religious folks would probably just top themselves by jumping under a train etc,(again this is a terrible issue already) when you combine this with a religion that condemns suicide (as I'm sure most do) it must be very hard for a devout Muslim to be stuck between depression and being condemned from sucicide, but......If you go to the right nut job imam you can get a pardon for your suicide you just have to kill a load of non muslims and then you can commit suicide and get a prize for it too....yay!!!

While I don't think suicide should ever be an option for people, if someone really is going to make that choice they should just do it without trying to hurt anyone else in the process



Mansize said:


> Also, the fact that thinking only the white mind is capable of racist thoughts, is in and of itself racist. My best friend is skinny and blond, and lives in a neighbourhood where white people are rare. He has been harrassed so many times he could write a book, but the police doesnt take him seriously (even after a severe beating one time) as to the rootcause. However, I do fear there is an "atlantic gap" when posting on forums, as in the States racism might be more problematic. Whenever I read an article on "cultural appropriation" I usually roll my eyes, but I live in a neighbourhood where over 70% of the people has a non-northwestern European ethnic heritage, and everyone appropriates stuff from everyone here (in a good way), so how can I hope to understand? Also, Europe is etnically complex all by itself, so we experience stuff differenty. For example, in France alone there are 8 different native macrolanguages you can have as a mothertongue (French, Breton, Dutch, German, Italian, Occitan, Catalan and Basque), how can we hope to be understood?


Yeah racist attacks on white people should be dealt with in exactly the same way as racist attacks on any other race, it seems that every other day I see some anti white racist rant from complete idiots and everyone seems to think it's acceptable


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## Deleted User (Jun 19, 2017)

A normal day in planet Earth.
Not surprising, soon they will run over anything they will see, like in Carmageddon (Videogame)


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> A normal day in planet Earth.
> Not surprising, soon they will run over anything they will see, like in Carmageddon (Videogame)



That game was awesome!


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> If that so why do they not kill any Muslims in the UK or any other EU country on these terrorist attacks



Holy shit... the vast majority of ISIS' victims have been Muslim. Do you live under a rock by any chance

Do you even know what role they've played in the Arab spring, the Syrian lands they've occupied by massacring the natives, how they'd abduct random children in the levantine and execute them for silly reasons like 'listening to pop music'? This stuff happens CONSTANTLY, compared to the semi-frequent and heavily reported attacks in the west.

ISIS absolutely eradicated Aleppo and Palmyra. Nothing's left.

I'm truly dumbfounded that I just saw somebody insinuate that ISIS doesn't hurt Muslims. Christ almighty.

Even if they didn't, that's not the point. THEIR approach says nothing about the rest of the Muslim community.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> Holy shit... the vast majority of ISIS' victims have been Muslim. Do you live under a rock by any chance
> 
> Do you even know what role they've played in the Arab spring, the Syrian lands they've occupied by massacring the natives, how they'd abduct random children in the levantine and execute them for silly reasons like 'listening to pop music'? This stuff happens CONSTANTLY, compared to the semi-frequent and heavily reported attacks in the west.
> 
> ...



Did you miss the UK/EU part of that sentence?


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Did you miss the UK/EU part of that sentence?


No, it's just irrelevant. They hurt Muslims it doesn't matter where.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> No, it's just irrelevant. They hurt Muslims it doesn't matter where.



Its not relevant to the point i was making? what the fuck are you even talking about.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Its not relevant to the point i was making? what the fuck are you even talking about.


"ISIS doesn't hurt Muslims in the UK/EU" is a moot point because they hurt Muslims in general. They're not selective about their victims.

Anyway, as I've said before it literally doesn't matter if they do or they don't. They're still fucked up either way, and hypothetically going out of their way NOT to hurt Muslims doesn't somehow make Muslims collectively worse.

The point you were making is at best illogical.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

Its not a moot point its fact, look.. you're talking shit and you just read the first part of my post and thought you would have a pop. Next time read the whole thing.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Its not a moot point its fact, look.. you're talking shit and you just read the first part of my post and thought you would have a pop. Next time read the whole thing.


I did.

Guess I've got to spell it out for you.

Somebody else argued that ISIS is hiding behind the guise of Islam but is actually not religiously motivated and just out there to do harm (I personally disagree with this, they _are_ religiously motivated in their own minds, following some fucked up interpretation of Islam they invented)

to which you responded saying that they go out of their way not to harm Muslims in UK/EU attacks, which is first off 1) a claim with no evidence apart from your own word and 2) supposed to imply that their evil is directed strictly to non-Muslims which is CLEARLY not the case as shown by their activity in other parts of the world

also 3) have you considered that in very metropolitan cities like London where the population is as mixed as can be, an attack on a random sample of 7-10 people (some of whom would be in groups together) is not incredibly statistically likely to include a Muslim, as it would in, say, the Middle East?

Lastly you still ignored the part where I said it doesn't matter if they go out of their way not to do harm to Muslims, because how they justify or evaluate their actions still says nothing of the rest of the Muslim community. They are globally recognised as sick f***s. The Middle East is no exception.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

Well if you say its moot and doesn't matter talking about the UK or EU only then here's one from India: http://www.vladtv.com/article/218959/7-isis-terrorists-kill-20-people-spared-those-who-recited-quran and http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...red-others-tortured-say-hostages_1902752.html


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## Viri (Jun 19, 2017)

This isn't a big surprise, when your PM's solution to stopping terrorism is to shut down the internet or to censor it. Especially after cutting down your Police force just recently.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Well if you say its moot and doesn't matter talking about the UK or EU only then here's one from India: http://www.vladtv.com/article/218959/7-isis-terrorists-kill-20-people-spared-those-who-recited-quran and http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...red-others-tortured-say-hostages_1902752.html





			
				first article said:
			
		

> The ISIS media wing has claimed responsibility for the attack, which was launched on the final Friday of Ramadan, as millions of Muslims prepare to celebrate the Eid holiday.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 19, 2017)

Lucifer666 said:


> I did.
> 
> Guess I've got to spell it out for you.
> 
> ...



I hadn't thought about the random attacks (explosions) and how they could never have possibly calculated that someone from their religion wouldn't be in the affected area so I take back what I said then.

I understand that innocent muslims are being killed in the east and its horrendous and has to stop so don't make me out to be some closed minded idiot.


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## SG854 (Jun 20, 2017)

Mansize said:


> Also, the fact that thinking only the white mind is capable of racist thoughts, is in and of itself racist. My best friend is skinny and blond, and lives in a neighbourhood where white people are rare. He has been harrassed so many times he could write a book, but the police doesnt take him seriously (even after a severe beating one time) as to the rootcause. However, I do fear there is an "atlantic gap" when posting on forums, as in the States racism might be more problematic. Whenever I read an article on "cultural appropriation" I usually roll my eyes, but I live in a neighbourhood where over 70% of the people has a non-northwestern European ethnic heritage, and everyone appropriates stuff from everyone here (in a good way), so how can I hope to understand? Also, Europe is etnically complex all by itself, so we experience stuff differenty. For example, in France alone there are 8 different native macrolanguages you can have as a mothertongue (French, Breton, Dutch, German, Italian, Occitan, Catalan and Basque), how can we hope to be understood?


You know what's stupid about cultural appropriation, it has nothing to do with race, this is something sjw's don't get. For example Mexico is a country, anybody who's a Mexican is someone that is a citizen of Mexico. This means you can have Asians, Blacks and White Mexicans. Just like how you have White, Black and Asian Americans.
A White person from Mexico is not culturally appropriating Mexican culture. Its because they are apart of that culture.

Same with a White guy being born and from Japan. Japanese culture, mannerisms and traditions is something that is a part of his life. If cultural appropriation was a thing, then you can have an Asian from America, especially if they know nothings about Japanese culture, culturally appropriate Japanese culture. They can appropriate a White Man from Japan and his Japanese culture. There's internet culture, ghetto culture, skateboarding culture. It has nothing to do with race. Just like those idiots that complain Mario is culturally appropriating Mexican culture with his Sombrero. Just like you said cultures mix all the time. Its how we improve, bond, learn, grow, understand each other and introduce new things in our culture. All cultures that exist today are a mixture of many different cultures.

If people shouldn't appropriate other cultures and stop getting into things that is not supposedly theirs, then Japan should stop and get rid of their Western influenced government, stop wearing western clothing, stop eating western foods like breads, and stop using western industrialization, you know the industrialization that helped their society grow and compete with the US. They wouldn't have the technologies today without it. With this logic Samsung and Sony should stop using their industrialized production lines, because they are culturally appropriating Westerners and their culture.

Basically according to media Straight White men are the enemy. Blame them for everything. Minorities and Women can do no wrong. You can't criticize things in the Islamic religion or ISIS because you'll be labeled as a racist. Racism means someone who hates other races. It doesn't mean someone who criticizes other races. Criticism especially ones that are constructive are good. It points out our mistakes and helps us improve as a person. All this stupid use of safe spaces, blame the White man for everything, Toxic Whiteness, Media avoiding certain issues because only Whites can do wrong, really prevents people from learning anything. It creates a one sided biased view which can turn into unjustified hate and resentment.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 20, 2017)

SG854 said:


> You know what's stupid about cultural appropriation, it has nothing to do with race, this is something sjw's don't get. For example Mexico is a country, anybody who's a Mexican is someone that is a citizen of Mexico. This means you can have Asians, Blacks and White Mexicans. Just like how you have White, Black and Asian Americans.
> A White person from Mexico is not culturally appropriating Mexican culture. Its because they are apart of that culture.
> 
> Same with a White guy being born and from Japan. Japanese culture, mannerisms and traditions is something that is a part of his life. If cultural appropriation was a thing, then you can have an Asian from America, especially if they know nothings about Japanese culture, culturally appropriate Japanese culture. They can appropriate a White Man from Japan and his Japanese culture. There's internet culture, ghetto culture, skateboarding culture. It has nothing to do with race. Just like those idiots that complain Mario is culturally appropriating Mexican culture with his Sombrero. Just like you said cultures mix all the time. Its how we improve, bond, learn, grow, understand each other and introduce new things in our culture. All cultures that exist today are a mixture of many different cultures.
> ...


"Cultural appropriation" isn't someone being immersed in a culture, it's someone specifically using certain private/unique/spiritual aspects of a culture because it's "hip," regardless (or even in defiance) of the historical significance of said aspect


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## SG854 (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "Cultural appropriation" isn't someone being immersed in a culture, it's someone specifically using certain private/unique/spiritual aspects of a culture because it's "hip," regardless (or even in defiance) of the historical significance of said aspect


Cultural Appropriation means taking ones culture without the owners consent. So who do you ask permission to use ones culture? Everyone is different and will give you a different answer. Some people will be ok with using their culture, but some people won't. So who do I listen to? And all cultures are mixed with other cultures, so who do you ask for permission?

And if it was respecting the history of culture, well historical significance is always going to be distorted. How far back do you go? 50 years? 500 years? 2,000 years? 50,000 years? The history of things is all distorted. 

There is no clear definition for Cultural Appropriation, especially on how far back you should go. Everyone is going to give you a different answer, so it ends up becoming meaningless. Even existing cultures have appropriated from previous cultures for centuries, its unavoidable.


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## AsPika2219 (Jun 20, 2017)

Another non-stop terrorist attacks when Eid Ul-Fitr comes on this Sunday or Monday (depend on moon siblings)....


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## Mansize (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "Cultural appropriation" isn't someone being immersed in a culture, it's someone specifically using certain private/unique/spiritual aspects of a culture because it's "hip," regardless (or even in defiance) of the historical significance of said aspect



There is no one definition of "cultural appropriation", it is simply adopting an element from another culture, so it could possibly be absorbed into a new culture.

Like making pizza. Pizza is a very specific thing and comes from what we now call Italy. I personally think the American version is an insult to the original thing. 

Like bagels. They were injected actively into the USA by polish jews. 

It isnt always a bad thing.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

Another one today:

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/877118952744333312


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 20, 2017)

Mansize said:


> There is no one definition of "cultural appropriation", it is simply adopting an element from another culture, so it could possibly be absorbed into a new culture.
> 
> Like making pizza. Pizza is a very specific thing and comes from what we now call Italy. I personally think the American version is an insult to the original thing.
> 
> ...


I'm referring specifically to things like white people wearing cornrows (there's a fascinating history behind them in slave culture) and non-Native Americans wearing feathers and having "spirit animals," because it's "cute"


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 20, 2017)

"Cultural appropriation" is the biggest load of tosh to ever be dreamed up, many of these "things" people suddenly decided belong to some specific subset of people are often just adaptations of things made by other cultures before them, and someone else before that, and even then you could go as far as saying they belong to a culture of the past, so by someone wearing a native Indian Style head dress even if they are a descendant they are still appropriating another generations style etc etc, people need to stop thinking up new ways to try oppress other people and bloody live and let live, else this perpetual cycle of "you stole this" "oh yeah well you stole this"  will never end and nobody will ever be allowed to be happy unless they sit naked in a cave until they die.......although I'm sure someone will lay claim to that "culture" and continue the cycle


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> "Cultural appropriation" is the biggest load of tosh to ever be dreamed up, many of these "things" people suddenly decided belong to some specific subset of people are often just adaptations of things made by other cultures before them, and someone else before that, and even then you could go as far as saying they belong to a culture of the past, so by someone wearing a native Indian head dress even if they are a descendant they are still appropriating another generations style etc etc, people need to stop thinking up new ways to try oppress other people and bloody live and let live, else this perpetual cycle of "you stole this" "oh yeah well you stole this"  will never end and nobody will ever be allowed to be happy unless they sit naked in a cave until they die.......although I'm sure someone will lay claim to that "culture" and continue the cycle


They're not happy so they have to make others feel like themselves.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 20, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> "Cultural appropriation" is the biggest load of tosh to ever be dreamed up, many of these "things" people suddenly decided belong to some specific subset of people are often just adaptations of things made by other cultures before them, and someone else before that, and even then you could go as far as saying they belong to a culture of the past, so by someone wearing a native Indian Style head dress even if they are a descendant they are still appropriating another generations style etc etc, people need to stop thinking up new ways to try oppress other people and bloody live and let live, else this perpetual cycle of "you stole this" "oh yeah well you stole this"  will never end and nobody will ever be allowed to be happy unless they sit naked in a cave until they die.......although I'm sure someone will lay claim to that "culture" and continue the cycle


It's not an issue of "stealing" or "we did it first stahp," it's that people take something that has a traditional significance and using it without regard to that tradition. Nobody would care if you're actually using something with respect to the culture it's being taken from


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's not an issue of "stealing" or "we did it first stahp," it's that people take something that has a traditional significance and using it without regard to that tradition. Nobody would care if you're actually using something with respect to the culture it's being taken from


It's using "things" to oppress other people....sure on paper it might have some Nobel logic, but in practice 9/10 it's used to intimidate and shame people for innocent actions, that really nobody cares about other than it being a stick to bat people with, most of the time it's not even a person of the culture in question throwing the wobbler


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 20, 2017)

gamesquest1 said:


> It's using "things" to oppress other people....sure on paper it might have some Nobel logic, but in practice 9/10 it's used to intimidate and shame people to innocent actions


Lol nobody is being oppressed


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Lol nobody is being oppressed


"Attempting" most people see the concept as the joke it is, the only times I have seen cultural appropriation used have been for moaning about childish non-issues or trying to "out" people for choosing a outfit that might be similar to some traditional outfit.....instead of people seeing it as a nice thing, they would prefer to get butt hurt and demand a product recall etc


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's not an issue of "stealing" or "we did it first stahp," it's that people take something that has a traditional significance and using it without regard to that tradition. Nobody would care if you're actually using something with respect to the culture it's being taken from


Those people that scream "CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!11!!1" just find excuses to complain rather than when to find when it's okay or not for others to "appropriate" something. It's bullshit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



TotalInsanity4 said:


> Lol nobody is being oppressed


http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article152933279.html


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## Mansize (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm referring specifically to things like white people wearing cornrows (there's a fascinating history behind them in slave culture) and non-Native Americans wearing feathers and having "spirit animals," because it's "cute"



Well yes, I have heard of those examples, but I still do not see it. Hair and "spirit animals" are as old as humans themselves. I just meant to say that "cultural appropriation" is a very common thing. When I look outside my window, I see an Egyptian-Israelian, a Surinam-Chinese and an Indonesian-Malaysian restaurant across the street. Cultures are appropriating a lot of things from each other and the transactions seem to be beneficial often (or no one cares). No one talks about the benefits of it anymore it seems.

Cornrows are actually kind of wide spread in _current_ culture (also in its places of origin) and certainly not confined to "slave culture". So why do some people in particular get to judge this is "inappropriate"cultural appropriation to African-Americans? The main problem I have with it is that people who are completely_ free_ persons are the ones to lay these claims. How do they even identify with slavery anymore, because they suffer from institutionalized racism? It is not that I wouldn't understand that, I just don't know if it is the correct way to analyze these things. I once saw someone complaining that it was offended by straight people adopting the rainbow flag in their Facebook profile picture to support the gays. Called it "inappropriate" subcultural appropriation. ?!?!?!?!?!? What the hell, these people did that to support us, why complain about it. I'm often ashamed of this subculture I unwillingly belong to when I see them inappropriately holding up their gay discrimination card, but it happens so often. Like with "gaming community". There is no "community", just zillions of individuals who buy and play games, the gaming market actually surpasses the music market these days. Sure, we connect on forums and such, but those forums often aren't all that related to each other, and most people simply aren't part of such things / have no desire to.

Also, sometimes I genuinely wonder how long ago is long enough? I detest the word "slave culture" used in modern contexts. What is it even, and how long ago is long enough to let go of the claim of direct ties to it, in a genetic sense? Certainly, this doesn't confine itself to African-Americans, as the word itself stems from caucasians enslaving caucasians. Also, more recent examples of slavery, like working camps during WWII, I hear nobody talking about. So when I hear free people whine about slavery, I always think of the 17% of Maurtania that is still enslaved. If history taught you that abolishing slavery is important, then go and try doing something about current slavery. In recent years a pope extended his apologies for what the church did to Waldensians in high medieval times, for example, but Waldensians refused to accept this apology saying that the ones who were responsible for the deeds themselves no longer live, so an apology cannot be truly extended, and the ones who have suffered also no longer live, so an apology extended cannot ever be seriously accepted either.

Considering spirit animals; the first drawings of spirit animals stem from Indonesia I believe, in prehistoric times some 35.000 to 40.000 BC. Coming in second are the famous spirit animals in cave paintings in France and Spain, some 350 caves discovered up until now, some as old as 35.000 BC. I don't know, these things are kind of more ancient than the cultures you speak of, so how can any one culture lay claim to "spirit animals"? I just don't get it, but would love to hear more about viewpoints from the States, as things are so different over there.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

Mansize said:


> . How do they even identify with slavery anymore, because they suffer from institutionalized racism?


Simple.







People without morals cry for the race card, sex card, gender card, whatever-card to be the victim even when they're not.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 20, 2017)

Meanwhile, two French journalists died during the final assault against Mossul. Since ocober, Iraqi army and Kurdish army are fighting against ISIS. The latter is now trapped in a 3 km² wide area in the center of the city, with still 100k people trapped inside.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

This guy nails the nonsense about 'cultural appropriation':



You'll need to know Spanish, though.

EDIT: This one's really good too.



By the way, I'll be sure to ask you guys who have a PhD on Cultural Appropriation when I can wear my kimono.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 20, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article152933279.html


If thats your exposure to the term I can definitely see why you think it's stupid


Saiyan Lusitano said:


> By the way, I'll be sure to ask you guys who have a PhD on Cultural Appropriation when I can wear my kimono.


If youre being serious, wear it whenever you're in a situation where it would be appropriate to

Edit: also we've strayed so far offtopic it's not even funny


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> If thats your exposure to the term I can definitely see why you think it's stupid


That's because it is. "Cultural Appropriation" offers nothing good to the society.



TotalInsanity4 said:


> Edit: also we've strayed so far offtopic it's not even funny


Oh, it isn't? Hmm.


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 20, 2017)

I agree with that level headed Mexican. 
In that instance, it was getting beyond stupid. 
Anyway, OMG what a derail!


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 20, 2017)

What's going on? Anyone want to catch me up?


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## Mansize (Jun 20, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> What's going on? Anyone want to catch me up?



There's probably been some more terrorist attacks, and unrelated to that, some of us think cultural appropriation is not appropriate.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 20, 2017)

Mansize said:


> There's probably been some more terrorist attacks, and unrelated to that, some of us think cultural appropriation is not appropriate.



What does cultural appropriation have to do with a terrorist attack?


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## Mansize (Jun 20, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> What does cultural appropriation have to do with a terrorist attack?



That is what the "unrelated" refers to. Brought it up while discussing racism, and differences between perceived racism on both sides of the atlantic.


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## Haider Raza (Jun 22, 2017)

Islamophobic Tommy Robinson vs Piers Morgan.


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## YuseiFD (Jun 22, 2017)

LMAO evolution my ass, people are still killing people based on their beliefs, they did this gajelions of years ago, they're doing it now, there is no human evolution.


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