# Metroid is a deeply flawed series



## ChiefReginod (Jul 4, 2021)

I've just 100%'d Super Metroid, Other M, Fusion and Zero Mission all back to back. I've also completed Metroid 1 and 2 and Samus Returns on 3DS (100%) in the past. Metroidvanias are up there as one of my favorite game genres. I've played through all of the classic Castlevanias as well. I've finished all of these games at least a few times each and now I'm playing through Metroid Prime (GC) for the first time.

I've come to the conclusion that Super Metroid is the only truly great game in the series. All of the rest have deep flaws that breed much more frustration than fun factor, but the things is they're the kind of things that are easy to forget about once you finish them. Starting with Prime, the series adopted flawed design as features: Tedious enemies that pose no challenge if not for the broken controls. Long, drawn out battles with inconsequential enemies that respawn exactly the same way they did in the 2D games. Backtracking that fails to stir curiosity (poor map and mission design). Boss battles that aren't challenging and don't make you think, they're just long and repetitive. Forced counter-attacks to win battles with basic enemies. I could go on.

Everywhere I look, people seem to think that just because the sequence-breaking makes for fun speed runs it somehow makes up for everything else. How does that enhance a first-time player's experience? If you have to play a game over and over for years to get to a point where you can overlook its flaws, what does that say about the game?

*flame shield activate*

Before you disagree with me I'm going to need to know which of the Metroid games you've completed *without FAQs or save states* and why you think the controls aren't completely broken from Prime onward.


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## Milenko (Jul 4, 2021)

Metroid never clicked with me


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## DarkCoffe64 (Jul 5, 2021)

Don't exactly care too much about Metroid, but the one game I ever managed to finish was... Other M and Zero Mission on GBA, lol
The others I remember either getting lost/stuck and unsure about how to progress, or just got bored and another game I was interested showed up.
Tho, I played ZM somewhat recently, now that I kinda have a somewhat developed brain, the other games I played when I was a young bab, so guess I just wasn't smarts enough to figure it out. Other M's another story, that game's as linear as a straight line.


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## AshuraZro (Jul 5, 2021)

The "before you disagree with me" line is an odd choice as you're defending your opinion and looking to discredit others before they've even disagreed. It comes off as inviting conversation and then pushing it away in the same post. If anything, I'd welcome those that haven't played much and may not have nostalgia involved. You can only have a first impression once after all.

Personally, I've completed every Metroid game many times over with exception to federation force (never played) and Other M (only 100%'d once). I replayed Prime again just a couple weeks ago even. Metroid is without a doubt my favorite game series. And that said? I wouldn't disagree with some of your points at all.

I would leave the NES/Famicom Metroid out of it the conversation because it was the first and just seems unfair to take a swing at the first attempt. I like the game but it is absolutely not something I would wheel out and say "Here's a game you should play in 2021!".

With the 2D games, I see a formula that is hard to evolve without losing what it is. I've enjoyed each successor in the series but there's always the feeling that it was never quite what I wanted from it (knowing full well I don't know what I really want from it). Hell, I actually enjoyed playing through Other M despite having many complaints about it. For me, these have never been difficult games outright. Instead, I see them as games about exploration, atmosphere and power fantasy. You start out weak but before long you're wrecking just about everything even on your first time through. The percentage at the end of the game invites you to seek out the rest of the items. Do you need them to beat the game? Hell no. You'll never use any of that extra ammo probably. But hey, its kinda fun to do. If you want to make the game hard or want a challenge, you can do that but it's not the game becoming hard at that point but rather a conscious choice of the player to make the game hard. I think that's to the credit of the game but not something that makes it amazing.

Now let's talk about Prime because I honestly think its the most interesting discussion. Prime is a very interesting series to me, I really enjoyed playing through them but I think the problems with the Prime games are among the most visible in the design.

Controls: The controls I feel are a product of the era. It's a time when lots of developers were trying to figure out the right way to do an FPS on console. A few got it right, some did okay, many did not. Metroid Prime I feel fits in a unique version of the middle. Rather than trying to make a traditional FPS, they changed the gameplay to suit the controls. It's a unique solution but can also been seen as a compromise from the start. There is no doubt that the action needs to slow down and simplify as a result though. I like the controls for what the game is but a fast paced and challenging action game it is certainly not. If you want to go full silly mode, look up PrimeHack, a build of dolphin where you can play the Prime games with mouse and keyboard. I did a playthrough recently and while I had fun, the enemies may as well never even have been there.


Backtracking: This is par for the course for Metroid and is part of the excitement is returning to an area to explore in a new way. Prime however bathes in this idea, engaging in it at times is either too much or the quality of the backtracking is too low. Part of the problem I think is that the pace and way you move in first-person is slow and not as fluid as 2D where you have speed booster, screw attacks, space jumps, etc. The "nintendo fetch quest" near the end of them (I call it Nintendo and not Metroid solely because of Wind Waker) pumps the brakes on the whole adventure. This leads into the next part.


Secrets, item collecting and power fantasy: This is where I feel the Prime series commits its worst sin. The aforementioned fetch quest takes the fun of exploration and secret finding and makes it mandatory with a screeching halt to the gameplay. That's pretty bad but what's worse is your reward is non-existent. Its to continue the story. In every other Metroid game, when you find a secret you become more powerful and it was your choice to do so. It was your reward. But putting the brakes on the game progression just to make you find effectively buttons to push would be a poor choice now and was a poor choice back in 2001 too.


Extra BS: Metroid Prime 3 and Other M. I like Metroid's atmosphere and feeling of isolation on a hostile world. MP3 just pissed all over that. Other M also deserves the shit it gets for the Adam/Samus dialog and upgrade unlocks.
So with my own opinion on the detractors laid out, one might ask "Why the hell is this your favorite series again?". I love the exploration based gameplay, I love how the 2D games flow, I love the atmosphere, I love the world design and I love the power fantasy. When I first played Super Metroid, the idea of an open world platformer blew my little mind at the time. It made an impression that lasts with me to today, much like Link to the Past. So is nostalgia involved? Damn right it is! I would not put Super Metroid or any other Metroid game in front of any gamer I meet and say "This is the game for you.". But I would encourage playing and experiencing the games, if just a little, and leave it at that.

Some times its nice to just be left alone and find out what something is about.


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 5, 2021)

AshuraZro said:


> The "before you disagree with me" line is an odd choice as you're defending your opinion and looking to discredit others before they've even disagreed. It comes off as inviting conversation and then pushing it away in the same post. If anything, I'd welcome those that haven't played much and may not have nostalgia involved. You can only have a first impression once after all.
> 
> Personally, I've completed every Metroid game many times over with exception to federation force (never played) and Other M (only 100%'d once). I replayed Prime again just a couple weeks ago even. Metroid is without a doubt my favorite game series. And that said? I wouldn't disagree with some of your points at all.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you said and I appreciate that you can acknowledge the series' flaws. It's the same for me with the PS1 Tomb Raider games. I wouldn't recommend them to most people, but the formula hits the right spot for me despite the flaws and difficulty.

I think Metroid Prime in particular could have been better with just a few design tweaks. The overall formula probably could have even stayed the same. Just rebalance enemy encounters, use the second analog stick for aiming and make it so you don't have to change weapons/visors every few seconds. I've heard that the Wii version has better controls, but the problems really run deeper than that. I get that it's harder to do creative platforming sections in 3D, but it's literally just the same thing every time: jump and hope you guessed your position right since you can't look down mid-air. Even Other M was better in that regard.

All of that said, I still plan to continue through the rest of the Prime series. Most of these games are worth playing, but on this most recent play through of the older games the flaws just really stuck out, and looking at the past few in the series it just makes me really skeptical that Dread will be any better.


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 6, 2021)

I'm going to rant a bit about Prime since it is, in my opinion, easily the worst game in the series.

Someone elsewhere made a perfect comparison between the Metroid and Zelda series. In Zelda, you usually see an explodable wall or a grapple point or some other visible sign that you need a specific item to access the area. In the classic Metroids you didn't always get that. You were forced to explore and assume that there might be something hidden even in areas that gave no such sign. This created a sense of wonder and mystery on every screen.

Metroid Prime is much more like a 3D Zelda where you see pretty much everything straight away. This kills the sense of exploration. There's actually very little exploring in the game, only backtracking. This is why the same people who didn't mind going back to look for items in the older games suddenly complained about it in Prime.

Now let's talk a bit about the identity crisis at the core of the game's problems. It's billed as more Adventure than FPS, and this is supposed to account for the controls not being geared toward FPS action, but literally an entire analog stick was devoted to switching weapons. Do you see the contradiction? If the action isn't central, why devote a whole analog stick just to changing weapons? And if it IS that important, why not use the second analogue for free-look? This was the single-dumbest design decision in a game absolutely filled with dumb design decisions.

I get the feeling that Prime is just one of those games that's long enough that when it first came out people felt like they got their next-gen money's worth. But present day, virtually no one recommends the GC version. Why then did it get so many 10/10 reviews?

This leads me in to why Dread is "probably" going to suck.

Those 10/10 reviews may seem harmless now, but it's been the same with every Metroid since then with the exception of Other M (though this got a lot of great reviews, too). So, Nintendo has gotten NOTHING but positive feedback for all of these shit design decisions, and this explains why some of those more boneheaded decisions have inexplicably stuck to present day. It's almost guaranteed that some of these things will make it into Dread as well. And why wouldn't they? No one's complained. Every change has been solid gold as far as Nintendo can tell.


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## CeeDee (Jul 6, 2021)

People enjoy different things and have different tastes. Aspects of the game/series that you might think make it deeply flawed are aspects others may be okay with, or outright enjoy and appreciate. Not only that, but it's totally possible to enjoy a game you know is flawed. Even flawed games have enjoyable aspects. Your conclusions are yours alone and aren't objective or definitive. 

As for my personal opinion, dear god I can't get into the series at all. I like Metroid though, he's a cool dude, I like it when he crawls


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## crea (Jul 6, 2021)

I can only weigh my experience against that, Fusion and Zero are true masterpieces, I also played them back to back and had zero frustration (pun intended).
Super Metroid is slightly on the tough side at times, but still the best of them all regarding athmosphere and breakthrough creativity for the time released.

I played Metroid2 on gameboy like a crazy person as a kid, that one was slightly on the frustrating side with no map. But it still added to the game, to be lost and find your way in a maze where nothing seems certain.


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## Taleweaver (Jul 6, 2021)

I just don't get why the series are named after the antagonists.

Or why those floating jellyfish are named 'metroids' in the first place.

Does it matter? No. But if you ask me, it's more relevant than what I think of the games assuming I've 100%-ed them in the first place.

Now before you disagree with me, I'm going to just say for no specific reason that I'm only going to read replies starting with the letter 'B'. I don't usually set these sorts of conditions, but if the OP can set fun rules before feeling an opinion worthy of replying to, then so can I.


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## SG854 (Jul 6, 2021)

I love the Metorid series. The discovery and not knowing what to do but finding your way, unlocking new areas that wasn't accessible before is great.


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 7, 2021)

*flame shield power up*

Super Metroid isn't even a 10/10 game. It's an 8/10. Maybe an 8.5 at the absolute best, but I'm kind of leaning more toward a 7.8. The controls are glitchy. Shinesparking is either broken if you're honest or at the very least requires you to already understand their unintuitive intricacies to think it's even passable as a game mechanic. There's this recurring theme of needing to play a game for years on end in order to come to a point where you think it's not broken.

Wall jumps are the absolute epitome of this and I've even seen some apologists claiming that you have as much as a few seconds after hitting a wall to jump. In reality it practically needs to be frame-perfect. This would be fine as an optional thing, but they literally mapped out a whole save-trap section just to fuck with all the little kids who couldn't figure out how to do it. I can do it pretty consistently myself, but there are again a lot of really subtle things that you need to do just exactly right, and these little details can only be learned through trial and error over usually a lengthy period of time. Bad design. They fixed it in the later games.

The visor seems like a good idea but ultimately it just makes the player stop and scan everything in every room, which isn't exactly fun with how slowly the scan beam moves. They probably thought it would add to the sense of discovery, but really it just damaged the flow of the game and made scanning take up at least half of the play time (unless you've played the game for years, of course). Not very fun. And then they multiplied this by one thousand in Prime.

I know it seems like I'm just nitpicking, but why is it such a bad thing to point out flaws in "good" games anyway? A game can be good even if some parts of it are broken. Apologists support bad design decisions and this ruins franchises.

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Taleweaver said:


> Now before you disagree with me, I'm going to just say for no specific reason that I'm only going to read replies starting with the letter 'B'. I don't usually set these sorts of conditions, but if the OP can set fun rules before feeling an opinion worthy of replying to, then so can I.


Brother, the only reason I added that stipulation was to keep away the scrubs who only ever save-stated through one or two games before coming here to convince me that they're the real experts. The only thing worse than fanboys supporting godawful design decisions are the ones who fanboy a series without even knowing it.


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## SG854 (Jul 7, 2021)

I rate Super Metroid 10/10. Great game great control. Wall jump is a time saver. Very well implemented and easy to pull off. I use it all the time to get items early.


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 7, 2021)

SG854 said:


> I rate Super Metroid 10/10. Great game great control. Wall jump is a time saver. Very well implemented and easy to pull off. I use it all the time to get items early.


How many years have you been playing Super Metroid?


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## SG854 (Jul 7, 2021)

ChiefReginod said:


> How many years have you been playing Super Metroid?


7


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 7, 2021)

SG854 said:


> 7


About 20 for me. It's a great game but I would never say the controls are perfect, least of all for a first time player. It's one of those things you have to warn new players about.


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## SG854 (Jul 7, 2021)

ChiefReginod said:


> About 20 for me. It's a great game but I would never say the controls are perfect, least of all for a first time player. It's one of those things you have to warn new players about.


I prefer Zero Missions speed to Super Metroid


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## catlover007 (Jul 7, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> I just don't get why the series are named after the antagonists.


because Alien isn't called Ripley.


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 7, 2021)

Alien is a pretty cool lady.


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## SG854 (Jul 7, 2021)

catlover007 said:


> why isn't Alien named Ripley?


Or Gremlins 

His face is going to be red from embarrassment for that one


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## Taleweaver (Jul 7, 2021)

catlover007 said:


> because Alien isn't called Ripley.


Good point. 

I guess I was just thinking too much into Nintendo 's line of thought. It's not super Bowser land/bros/world, king Dedede' s dream land or 'a Ganondorf to the past', so... 

(Samus 2: return of the metroids kind of makes more sense to me as well, but again : that's just me)


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## SG854 (Jul 7, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> Good point.
> 
> I guess I was just thinking too much into Nintendo 's line of thought. It's not super Bowser land/bros/world, king Dedede' s dream land or 'a Ganondorf to the past', so...
> 
> (Samus 2: return of the metroids kind of makes more sense to me as well, but again : that's just me)


Samus 2 return of Metroids doesn't roll of the tongue well. It sounds dumb.


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## Jayro (Jul 7, 2021)

*throws my flame shield into a metroid nest*

I am one of the few that actually enjoyed Other M. It was my first venture into the Metroid series, and I liked it.


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 7, 2021)

Jayro said:


> *throws my flame shield into a metroid nest*
> 
> I am one of the few that actually enjoyed Other M. It was my first venture into the Metroid series, and I liked it.


It's not half as bad as other fans led me to think. The writing is bad but the story at least makes the plot twist in Fusion more impactful. The controls are annoying but not quite as broken as Prime. Going for 100% at the end felt much more like Metroid than the rest of the game unfortunately.

The game felt like it could have actually been great with some refinements. The overall plot wasn't even bad. It was mostly the way they portrayed Samus. The iffy controls could have been fixed. I got the feeling it must have been rushed toward the end of development. I enjoyed it much more than Prime anyway.


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## tabzer (Jul 7, 2021)

Metroid Other M is worth playing once.  I enjoyed it.  The 2D side scrollers are easy to play multiple times.  I can't find myself to finish a prime game.  Is the story worth it?  The controls bother me too much.


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## mrgone (Jul 7, 2021)

i came to metroid with fusion, finished and loved it.
as well as prime and zero.
but i also bought super metroid on WiiVC and did not like it as much,
since it basically did not look as good a fusion und control also was not as smooth.


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 7, 2021)

it's because samus is a girl isn't it?


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## tabzer (Jul 7, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


> it's because samus is a girl isn't it?


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 7, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


> it's because samus is a girl isn't it?


Is that Metroid's girlfriend?


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## ChiefReginod (Jul 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Metroid Other M is worth playing once.  I enjoyed it.  The 2D side scrollers are easy to play multiple times.  I can't find myself to finish a prime game.  Is the story worth it?  The controls bother me too much.


The story is kind of weird since it comes close to portraying the space pirates as sympathetic. They're no longer mindless drones, so you're basically just killing sentient lifeforms who are only trying to survive (ok, maybe not exactly, but it's close to that). I don't know why this doesn't get as much shit as Other M.

To make things worse almost none of this is shown in cut scenes. You have to manually scan literally hundreds of terminals to read the full story. Yes, it's all text, which would maybe be fine if it wasn't so repetitive. And good lord is it repetitive.

It's not the kind of game you would play just for the story. Space pirates bad. Chozo good. That's the whole thing.

I'm probably going to start Prime 2 soon anyway. Hopefully some of the broken stuff got fixed in the sequel.


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## hippy dave (Jul 13, 2021)

tabzer said:


> View attachment 269333


Lesbian icon


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## Tumors (Aug 5, 2021)

Super Metroid sucks


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## PacBunny (Aug 5, 2021)

I would rather play Zero Mission or Prime over Super Metroid, its too slow for me


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## ChiefReginod (Aug 6, 2021)

Tumors said:


> Super Metroid sucks


Banned. lol


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## rob4 (Aug 6, 2021)

SG854 said:


> I rate Super Metroid 10/10. Great game great control. Wall jump is a time saver. Very well implemented and easy to pull off. I use it all the time to get items early.



Someone said that Wall Jump was broken and frame perfect, i disagree, i played super metroid when i was 8, and i had to do the wall jumps to my brother (15) because he couldn't pull it off, but i couldn't beat the bosses or the hard parts, so we played together. At that time we didn't have internet and games were more hard than now. I think that in the year metroid 3 released, it was a masterpiece, now we can have more polished games, but that doesn't make the old games bad, they were meant to be played when they launched in older hardware.

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ChiefReginod said:


> I think Metroid Prime in particular could have been better with just a few design tweaks. The overall formula probably could have even stayed the same. Just rebalance enemy encounters, use the second analog stick for aiming and make it so you don't have to change weapons/visors every few seconds. I've heard that the Wii version has better controls, but the problems really run deeper than that. I get that it's harder to do creative platforming sections in 3D, but it's literally just the same thing every time: jump and hope you guessed your position right since you can't look down mid-air.



Prime was my first FPS ever, because i didn't like shooters but i liked metroid, so i didn't know how to play shooters, so controls were easy to pick up. But now, it's unplayable.
I tried the Wii version, but the controls and low resolutions are too much, hope a switch version can update and make the game more accesible.


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## holmes5800 (Aug 6, 2021)

I was playing old games (90s and early 2000s) in rencent few years till now. So I can understand how you feel and here's the reason: you are looking backward with a NEW or PRESENT method, or viewpoint.

When palying old games, I keep telling myself: you should consider the circumstance the game was created at before you judge it. If you take the present point to old things, most of them are outdated.

I'vs played 10 main titles of metroid, except MPH on DS and FF on 3DS. So I think I have some sort of right to discuss this one of my favorite series.

Prime 1 was definitely a great game at 2002. Before this, I doubt you could ever play a 3D game which has FPS, puzzles and exploration these elements FUSED together and still be with such a high completion. This game is definitely pioneering at 2002. 

You mentioned controls are broken. Maybe you just COMPARED Prime with Halo, or some present FPS game (with modern FPS control). With nowaday opinion, left stick TURNS character left or right rather than MOVES left or right and right stick does not control cursor seems a little dumb. Yes I agree with this. But with existence of LOCK ON, I feel this dumb control acceptable. 
If you are really feeling this control so bad, you can try Prime trilogy on wii, that's way more comfortable.


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## PacBunny (Aug 13, 2021)

why exactly is Super Metroid the best?


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## SG854 (Aug 13, 2021)

PacBunny said:


> why exactly is Super Metroid the best?


because it is


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## PacBunny (Aug 13, 2021)

SG854 said:


> because it is


thats not a reason


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## mrgone (Aug 13, 2021)

this is pure nostalgia like everywhere else.

imho metroid fusion is the best, because that's the one i played mostly (of the 3d ones)
i then bought super metroid in the wiiVC, thinking it will be equally great, as everybody is praising it.
turns out it sucked, because the gameplay was worse than fusion (not as smooth/polished)


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## SG854 (Aug 13, 2021)

mrgone said:


> this is pure nostalgia like everywhere else.
> 
> imho metroid fusion is the best, because that's the one i played mostly (of the 3d ones)
> i then bought super metroid in the wiiVC, thinking it will be equally great, as everybody is praising it.
> turns out it sucked, because the gameplay was worse than fusion (not as smooth/polished)


too much talking and stoping in fusion. messes up speed flow

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PacBunny said:


> thats not a reason


it is because I say so. so dont talk back


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## PacBunny (Aug 13, 2021)

SG854 said:


> too much talking and stoping in fusion. messes up speed flow
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> Super Metroid is too slow so there
> ...


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## mrgone (Aug 13, 2021)

SG854 said:


> too much talking and stoping in fusion. messes up speed flow


since i haven't played SM when i played MF, i did not see the text as a negative


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## PacBunny (Aug 13, 2021)

mrgone said:


> since i haven't played SM when i played MF, i did not see the text as a negative


Metroid Fusion is more story heavy than Super Metroid


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## SG854 (Aug 13, 2021)

mrgone said:


> since i haven't played SM when i played MF, i did not see the text as a negative


zero mission better faster

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PacBunny said:


> SG854 said:
> 
> 
> > too much talking and stoping in fusion. messes up speed flow
> ...


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## Reploid (Aug 13, 2021)

I only think Prime is boring AF, while rest is decent at least.
It tries to be FPS (or look like one), but gunplay is dull and plot is barely there, which only adds to zzz factor. Maybe leveldesing is alright, I dunno.


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## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2021)

Reploid said:


> I only think Prime is boring AF, while rest is decent at least.
> It tries to be FPS (or look like one), but gunplay is dull and plot is barely there, which only adds to zzz factor. Maybe leveldesing is alright, I dunno.



I'm going to assume you never got really far into the game since you weren't into it which is fine, but like other Metroids there's a ton of upgrades and it's just amazing to me they could accomplish what they did in a first person game it's never been done before and only attempted to be duplicated since, while 99% of other first person games are still pretty much just pew pew pew shoot then shoot some more. You're entitled to your opinion but I can't disagree more as someone who's beaten around 600 games in my life to me Metroid Prime 1 especially is a masterpiece. It's also one of the highest reviewed games on average of all time so game critics agree with me.


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## grubgrub (Aug 13, 2021)

Other M is the best
Best story
Best gameplay
Best everything


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## ChiefReginod (Aug 13, 2021)

PacBunny said:


> why exactly is Super Metroid the best?


Because it's the best of the three classic Metroidvania-style Metroids. It has its own set of flaws, for sure, but the map and progression are the best in the series. Despite the flaws, it flows really, really well.

I don't have a problem with the story in Fusion being so central. The bigger problem for me is the disjointed map, the boss fights that could have been great but just come down to mashing shoot really fast, and the fact that new players could easily screw themselves at the end of the game if they don't grab enough power-ups before 90% of the map is locked. I think the story is actually pretty well done for what it is.

Zero Mission does a lot of things right, especially fixing up the iffy controls from the other two. But despite the map being way more wide open than Fusion, it still feels kind of disjointed. I keep wanting to think that it's the best of the three since it feels so polished, but every time I replay it I'm reminded that it doesn't flow anywhere near as well as Super Metroid. Plus it's a lot shorter than the other two and the difficulty spikes in ways that it shouldn't (ie, the shinesparking is harder than the boss fights).

Samus Returns doesn't deserve to be included here. Broken, headache of a game.


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## ChiefReginod (Aug 13, 2021)

NoSomeBody said:


> I'm going to assume you never got really far into the game since you weren't into it which is fine, but like other Metroids there's a ton of upgrades and it's just amazing to me they could accomplish what they did in a first person game it's never been done before and only attempted to be duplicated since, while 99% of other first person games are still pretty much just pew pew pew shoot then shoot some more. You're entitled to your opinion but I can't disagree more as someone who's beaten around 600 games in my life to me Metroid Prime 1 especially is a masterpiece. It's also one of the highest reviewed games on average of all time so game critics agree with me.


You have to factor in that most of those critic reviews were written at the time of its release. Present-day, almost no one recommends the GameCube version, even specifically citing the broken controls as a stopping point. If you ask on any Metroid board whether it's still worth playing, most people will say, "They fixed the controls in the Wii version, so play that one instead." The only ones who still stick to the GC version seem to be the speedrunners and people who played it on that system when it was new.

So, all of that considered, it's hard to take all of those glowing reviews as anything but a snapshot of the wow factor people felt in 2002. I don't see how the score still applies today. Maybe the Wii version is actually that much better, I don't know.

There is no updated version of Super Metroid. It is today what it was in 1994. People still say it's great despite its "outdated" aspects and most new players who manage to get through it still sing its praises, albeit with caveats for the wall-jump mechanic or whatever else. It's not perfect but it survives its imperfections, which Prime doesn't do half as well.

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grubgrub said:


> Other M is the best
> Best story
> Best gameplay
> Best everything


I enjoyed it much more than Prime at least. The story could have been fine as it was if they didn't screw up Samus. I think a lot of the story hate is more about that.

Going for 100% at the end feels much more like a Metroid game than anything released post-Zero Mission. So it has that going for it. A lot of other people have said the same thing. There's a great Metroid game buried in there somewhere. It jut could have been better than what it was, but still isn't as bad as people say.


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## ChiefReginod (Aug 13, 2021)

holmes5800 said:


> I was playing old games (90s and early 2000s) in rencent few years till now. So I can understand how you feel and here's the reason: you are looking backward with a NEW or PRESENT method, or viewpoint.
> 
> When palying old games, I keep telling myself: you should consider the circumstance the game was created at before you judge it. If you take the present point to old things, most of them are outdated.
> 
> ...


I started my gaming career on one of those old tabletop LED Pac-Man units, then on to Atari 2600, NES, all the 16 and 32-bit consoles and onward. I still mostly play older games and I think I'm pretty good about taking date of release into account. Some games just hold up better than others. Most recently I just played through Shining Force CD for the first time. The menus and equipment setup in that game are atrocious by modern standards but I didn't stress over it as I played since the core game is still solid.

My problem with Prime isn't that the controls are outdated. It's that it was bad design to force the user to change weapons and visors so often that a whole analog stick had to be dedicated to it, while at the same time touting that the action wasn't central. To make it worse, you even have to change visors in the middle of battles, sometimes even multiple times. I fought with the controls far more than I fought the actual battles.

The difference between Prime and other early FPSs with similar control setups is that you didn't have to change your equipment every few seconds in other games. I mean you even have to change weapons just to open basic doors. It didn't need to be such a headache. There are probably a hundred ways they could have made it less stop and go.


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## duwen (Aug 13, 2021)

My history with the Metroid games begins with Super Metroid when it first released for SNES. Not only had I never played the original Metroid (or it's Gameboy sequel) at that point, but I'd not played any of the Castlevania's either, so while not a wholly original formula it was still my first experience of what would become a genre (sub-genre?) beloved by many. I don't remember completing the game back in the early 90's, I think the backtracking wound up boring me, but I could still appreciate the gaming experience as being something special. I didn't revisit the game until over a decade later and found it to be a much more involving experience than I remembered it from my first time. Around the same time I played Metroid II on my GBA and enjoyed it almost as much, and followed it with Zero Mission (so, essentially played the original 'trilogy' in reverse chronology) which became my favourite of the series... until I played Fusion, which I still feel is the closest to perfect that the 2D games have achieved... but none of them are perfect, and I fully agree with many of the points raised by the OP. And I feel similarly about the Castlevania games, and if anything consider them to be more flawed than the Metroid games.
Onto the Prime games... with a quick footnote to say that my experiences with ALL of these games has been on the actual hardware they were released for - no rereleases (save for the remakes), no emulation, no savestates. The first two Prime games on Gamecube were fantastic experiences when they released two decades ago, but they're not easy games to return to these days due to how we've come to expect FPS games to behave on consoles. Regardless, they were among the best reasons to own a Gamecube back then. Prime 3 I've never played, although I do own it for Wii and probably will play it at some point. Other M... despite the negativity around it there are a lot of reasons to like it, but the story kind of sucks and the flip-flopping between play styles becomes extremely tedious very quickly. It would probably have been a much better game on Gamecube, with the limitations that made Prime what it was, than it turned out to be on Wii shoehorning in every gimmick in that systems arsenal. Honestly, I've never completed Other M and I don't feel I'm missing out.
I only ever played the 'First Hunt' demo version of Prime Hunters on DS - honestly felt like an unnecessary title for a system that couldn't handle it adequately.
At some point, on one of its VC releases, I tried the original NES Metroid. While it's still playable, and interesting to see the genesis of the franchise, it's totally irrelevant due to the superior GBA remake.
I thought the same might be true of the 3DS remake of Metroid 2, but I think they're such different experiences that the Gameboy original is probably still the best way to experience that entry in the series. That said, I never got around to completing Samus Returns on 3DS.
Federation Force and Blast Ball are spin-offs that I spent so little time with that I can't really share an opinion. However, Metroid Prime Pinball is bizarrely the title I've put the most time into. It's most definitely a spin-off, but it's a damn good video pinball title.

My overall opinion of the franchise is that on paper I love it and it totally appeals to me in every respect, but in practice, at best, I'm always at least just a little let down, and at worst disappointed that they fail to live up to the extremely lofty expectations and hype... I feel exactly the same about both the Mega Man and Castlevania franchises.


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## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2021)

Games don't age poorly, new gamers come along and don't pay attention to things from the past. The games are exactly the same as they were when they were released. The game was fantastic then and it's fantastic now. There are too many gamers that don't want to play a game that's older than the generation we're in and that's a shame because they miss out on so much. I still play everything from NES to current.

How people can hate on Metroid Prime and turn around say Halo and Call of Duty are masterpieces when all you do pretty much is shoot in those games with different backgrounds is pretty stupid. I'm not saying you said those games are masterpieces but others think so.

Metroid Prime showed a first person game can be something more where it had platforming, rolling in a ball, doing the screw attack. There was nothing from Super Metroid you couldn't do in Prime. The graphics for it's time was fantastic, the gameplay was great. The only knock on it is lack of story but no Metroid games have much story. Why people hate on it I have no idea but I just consider that poor taste on their part, or I think some played it for 30 minutes and got bored and didn't continue due to short attention spans.


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## tomberyx (Aug 13, 2021)

Super Metroid 3 is the mother of all metroids.
This game is more than a Master Piece.
Nobody can explain what is a "master piece" you have to play this amazing game and you will see what i mean.About Story ,the best part ist you dont know what the story is only at the beginning of the game you will see a little of the story but not too much, and this makes it so great.
 This game can not be comapared with the new games today there is so much magic inside that the new games never reached. If you understand Metroid 3 you will love Metroid Prime 1-2

There are many other Metroid games that pack you full of history and destroy everything that is exciting.
Metroid doesn't need a story, it gets it from playing. Unfortunately, with many other games it is the case that the story is in the foreground and actually already knows what is coming next. I HATE THAT


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## PacBunny (Aug 13, 2021)

ChiefReginod said:


> Because it's the best of the three classic Metroidvania-style Metroids. It has its own set of flaws, for sure, but the map and progression are the best in the series. Despite the flaws, it flows really, really well.
> 
> I don't have a problem with the story in Fusion being so central. The bigger problem for me is the disjointed map, the boss fights that could have been great but just come down to mashing shoot really fast, and the fact that new players could easily screw themselves at the end of the game if they don't grab enough power-ups before 90% of the map is locked. I think the story is actually pretty well done for what it is.
> 
> ...


Thats not saying much considering Metroid 1 & 2 aren't that great. I would rather play Zero Mission or Samus Returns 3DS over Super Metroid.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ChiefReginod said:


> Because it's the best of the three classic Metroidvania-style Metroids. It has its own set of flaws, for sure, but the map and progression are the best in the series. Despite the flaws, it flows really, really well.
> 
> I don't have a problem with the story in Fusion being so central. The bigger problem for me is the disjointed map, the boss fights that could have been great but just come down to mashing shoot really fast, and the fact that new players could easily screw themselves at the end of the game if they don't grab enough power-ups before 90% of the map is locked. I think the story is actually pretty well done for what it is.
> 
> ...


You do know there are secret tunnels that connects to the different maps in Fusion? Also you can say that all the 2D Metroids are short of you speed run them and use exploits.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tomberyx said:


> Super Metroid 3 is the mother of all metroids.
> This game is more than a Master Piece.
> Nobody can explain what is a "master piece" you have to play this amazing game and you will see what i mean.About Story ,the best part ist you dont know what the story is only at the beginning of the game you will see a little of the story but not too much, and this makes it so great.
> This game can not be comapared with the new games today there is so much magic inside that the new games never reached. If you understand Metroid 3 you will love Metroid Prime 1-2
> ...


Metroid 3 is a masterpiece? I would disagree.


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## tomberyx (Aug 13, 2021)

PacBunny said:


> Thats not saying much considering Metroid 1 & 2 aren't that great. I would rather play Zero Mission or Samus Returns 3DS over Super Metroid.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Yes you are right, i forget to say that  Metroid 1 [Nes] and 2 (Game Boy) are also a special pieces. Both are awesome special parts but  Metroid 2 is my Favorite .  But the most on the top(in my Opinoin )is Metro 3. The think is that what the most people out there dont did they didnt play Play m1 and m2 to understand m3 and love M-Prime  the rest  of the series are just Remakes with too much story but have many things of Metroid mechanics. Also is important to know if you grow up with These games or not.


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## duwen (Aug 14, 2021)

NoSomeBody said:


> How people can hate on Metroid Prime and turn around say Halo and Call of Duty are masterpieces when all you do pretty much is shoot in those games with different backgrounds is pretty stupid.


Halo gets the praise it does for being the first console FPS to nail the controls - pretty much every console FPS since has used almost exactly the same controls; left stick moves, right stick controls view, shoulder buttons shoot. If the GC's controller had been designed slightly differently and Nintendo had nailed FPS controls the way Halo did, Prime would be pretty much an untouchable classic.
As for CoD... meh... it's trash, always has been, always will be. No one in their right mind is calling any CoD title a masterpiece.


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## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2021)

duwen said:


> Halo gets the praise it does for being the first console FPS to nail the controls - pretty much every console FPS since has used almost exactly the same controls; left stick moves, right stick controls view, shoulder buttons shoot. If the GC's controller had been designed slightly differently and Nintendo had nailed FPS controls the way Halo did, Prime would be pretty much an untouchable classic.
> As for CoD... meh... it's trash, always has been, always will be. No one in their right mind is calling any CoD title a masterpiece.



Guess you never played a game called Goldeneye, nailed the controls long before Halo.


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## PacBunny (Aug 15, 2021)

duwen said:


> Halo gets the praise it does for being the first console FPS to nail the controls - pretty much every console FPS since has used almost exactly the same controls; left stick moves, right stick controls view, shoulder buttons shoot. If the GC's controller had been designed slightly differently and Nintendo had nailed FPS controls the way Halo did, Prime would be pretty much an untouchable classic.
> As for CoD... meh... it's trash, always has been, always will be. No one in their right mind is calling any CoD title a masterpiece.


Modern Warfare 2

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



NoSomeBody said:


> Guess you never played a game called Goldeneye, nailed the controls long before Halo.


Feel like Halo did a better job and if Goldeneye did nailed it how come there wasn't a game that took Goldeneye controls?


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## Ibcap (Aug 15, 2021)

ChiefReginod said:


> Before you disagree with me I'm going to need to know which of the Metroid games you've completed *without FAQs or save states*


Super Metroid, Zero Mission, Fusion, am2r if that counts, prime 2 (pretty sure I used guides for the stupid hidden keys in prime 1)


ChiefReginod said:


> and why you think the controls aren't completely broken from Prime onward.


Id say its on you to explain why the controls ARE broken? ZM and Fusion basically just have Super Metroids controls, except much tighter and more responsive. The only major changes i can think of are you dont have a dedicated run button (a bit of a downgrade but far from 'completely broken') and using L as a diagonal up and down aim button rather than having individual sholder buttons for both directions. Understandable when moving to a console with fewer buttons to work with.
I dont think either ZM or Fusion is perfect, but I also dont think youve put up a single argument for why theyre as bad as you seem to think they are. If it werent for ZM being so short and having such a small map compared to Super I think I would consider it the best game in the series. Fusion is bogged down by its linearity a bit, but overall its still a fantastic title imo.


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## PacBunny (Aug 15, 2021)

Wait who said Metroid Prime has bad controls?


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## CoolMe (Aug 15, 2021)

Metroid on the NES is brutal without a guide, same goes for LoZ on the NES.


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## hippy dave (Aug 15, 2021)

I've just started Fusion yesterday, done the first couple of zones or whatever, am really enjoying it. It's not perfect, but games rarely are.


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## duwen (Aug 16, 2021)

NoSomeBody said:


> Guess you never played a game called Goldeneye, nailed the controls long before Halo.


Goldeneye did a pretty good job with the abomination of a controller that the N64 used, but it was a million miles away from being the optimal control scheme for an FPS on a console.



PacBunny said:


> Modern Warfare 2


While I agree that the first two Modern Warfare's are the peak of the CoD franchise, they're still highly derivative, generic, offerings - certainly not masterpieces.



PacBunny said:


> Feel like Halo did a better job and if Goldeneye did nailed it how come there wasn't a game that took Goldeneye controls?


Well, technically, Perfect Dark refined the Goldeneye controls (proving that they weren't perfect to begin with), but came closer to what would become the defacto console FPS control scheme... even if it did mean you had to use two controllers simultaneously!


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## PacBunny (Aug 17, 2021)

duwen said:


> Goldeneye did a pretty good job with the abomination of a controller that the N64 used, but it was a million miles away from being the optimal control scheme for an FPS on a console.
> 
> 
> While I agree that the first two Modern Warfare's are the peak of the CoD franchise, they're still highly derivative, generic, offerings - certainly not masterpieces.
> ...


Still, people will still say Modern Wafare 2 is the best no matter how much you say Call of Duty sucks.


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## SG854 (Aug 17, 2021)

ChiefReginod said:


> Because it's the best of the three classic Metroidvania-style Metroids. It has its own set of flaws, for sure, but the map and progression are the best in the series. Despite the flaws, it flows really, really well.
> 
> I don't have a problem with the story in Fusion being so central. The bigger problem for me is the disjointed map, the boss fights that could have been great but just come down to mashing shoot really fast, and the fact that new players could easily screw themselves at the end of the game if they don't grab enough power-ups before 90% of the map is locked. I think the story is actually pretty well done for what it is.
> 
> ...


Fusion is the best of all Metroids at creating tension. The music is the most creepy of all metroids. And surviving and running away from the SA-X creates that tension and horror element. Having a imitation of Samus at her peak really shows how strong she became and how scary she is. Herself as the most scary thing on the station is brilliant. 

The lead up to the nightmare fight was awesome. Flying in the background then later the glass is broken and its free. 

The X parasite was an awsome addition and good expansion of the story of the consequences of eliminating the metroids. 

Controls are smooth and fast passed. Overall I like Fusion.


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## PacBunny (Aug 17, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Fusion is the best of all Metroids at creating tension. The music is the most creepy of all metroids. And surviving and running away from the SA-X creates that tension and horror element. Having a imitation of Samus at her peak really shows how strong she became and how scary she is. Herself as the most scary thing on the station is brilliant.
> 
> The lead up to the nightmare fight was awesome. Flying in the background then later the glass is broken and its free.
> 
> ...


You never play Metroid Prime and got to the Phazon Mines


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## SG854 (Aug 17, 2021)

PacBunny said:


> You never play Metroid Prime and got to the Phazon Mines


I did play metroid prime and I have went to the phazon mines. And fought that giant phazon pirate


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## Felold (Sep 25, 2022)

Well, for me Metroid Prime Trillogy controls better than any "modern fps" like Halo, Call of Duty and alike.

Motion controls for aiming is perfection and only rivalized by mouse on pc.
I played a lot of shooters on the Wii and I simply one-shot everyone because of how good the controls are.

When you're aiming with a analog stick you have to deal with the limitations of movement and speed of both the stick and the game's code (some of them have auto-aim to compensate), with pointer controls (motion and mouse) you can zip trough the screen and fire straight to the head.

So, Metroid Prime (Wii) controls better than any Halo in my book.
And I can't say the GC version controls poorly, I owned the game in the 2000s and didn't have a problem with It. But I don't have a reason to go back since I have the better Wii version.

Said that, I dislike any analog stick shooters, and I only play fps games with motion controls (at least gyro) or mouse.


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## ChiefReginod (Sep 25, 2022)

Felold said:


> Well, for me Metroid Prime Trillogy controls better than any "modern fps" like Halo, Call of Duty and alike.
> 
> Motion controls for aiming is perfection and only rivalized by mouse on pc.
> I played a lot of shooters on the Wii and I simply one-shot everyone because of how good the controls are.
> ...


I appreciate the necro-post since I think this was topic one of my better gaming rants. 

I see that I missed a few replies and I apologize for that. I still stand by everything I said, though I do like the Metroid series on the whole. My biggest issue is with some of the bad design decisions that became permanent over time, which I think have kept the Metroid (and certain other Nintendo franchises) from reaching its full potential. All that said, there are much worse series out there.

Also somewhat relevant, I'm currently replaying Red Dead Redemption for the first time since it came out in 2010 and I think it's aged horribly. It will probably be the last time I ever play it. But if someone had asked me a week ago for a good PS3/Xbox 360 game to play, it would have been at the top of my list. Some games are just better remembered than played.


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## fringle (Sep 25, 2022)

One of my best memories is of skipping school in 1994 with a couple of buddies so we could finish Super Metroid before it had to be returned to the video rental store.  We all took off and hitch hiked to my house at lunch time.  Those were the days.


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## Luke94 (Oct 19, 2022)

Duke Nukem Forever,Commander Keen mobile remake/reboot(gameplay looked like Worms),Jazz Jackrabbit Advance(shooting sequence looked more like in EarthWorm Jim),Gunstar Super Heroes,Deus Ex 2 : Invisible War,Unreal Tournament 3. It looks like MOTHER/EarthBound videogame series were not that successful as Final Fantasy,Pokemon...etc. Including F-Zero. Jazz Jackrabbit 3D Tech Demo,Sonic the Hedgehog/Sonic '06.


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