# Divineo fined for $9 Mil



## harryjon35 (Oct 6, 2006)

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=20207

do they sell enough to ever pay this fine?


no news about it on maxconsole. i wonder why


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## Costello (Oct 6, 2006)

Wow... yeah will they even be able to pay the fine? ... scary!
Will more shops be fined in the future? hmm


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## ds6220 (Oct 6, 2006)

yeah, I read that bad news today. Anyone notice that there were 2 individuals also in the suite. Like some random Canadian and French man were sued as well. Wow.


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## kernelPANIC (Oct 6, 2006)

Aren't those numbers/amounts usually toned down after settlements and all that legal crap? (God! I hate lawyers...)
Well, at least we know that the DS-X is being sold by other retailers not affiliated to Divineo...


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## MaD_mAnIaC (Oct 6, 2006)

what makes hdloader so illegal? what if i have the original game and want to backup it to the hd (to preserve the original disk and probably faster loading times)? while most people use this kind of devices for pirated games, the product maker isn't responsible for this, neither the reseller... unless divineo sold the hdloader bundled with pirated games i don't see why it's illegal... but i know nothing about hdloader or laws, so i can be wrong.


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## HugeCock (Oct 6, 2006)

HD Loader rocks for 2 reason:
1) Faster loading times
2) The laser which sucks on Sonys low quality hardware doesn't get used which results in longer lifespan of your console. Basically your laser is just used to boot the loader then shuts off. So sweet.

Sadly the laws on backing up your own shit are vauge...some say you cant...some say you can...meanwhile people are trying hard to stop us from backing up our own goods....


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## Tomobobo (Oct 6, 2006)

From what I understand, the court was held in the US, but Divineo is a Chinese company.  They don't have to pay shit.  Course I could be wrong.


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## Costello (Oct 6, 2006)

More accurate news from http://www.xbox-scene.com/


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> >> From gamasutra.com:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm... ? no fine then?


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## lagman (Oct 6, 2006)

Isn´t Lik-Sang also Chinese?

Wasn´t they sued by Sony Europe?


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## Shinji (Oct 6, 2006)

They dont need this type of publicity.  It doesnt look like a fine to me though...weird... maybe there is more that we dont know yet...still...


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## HugeCock (Oct 6, 2006)

Lik-Sang was sued by Nintendo I believe


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## Shinji (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE(HugeCock @ Oct 6 2006 said:


> Lik-Sang was sued by Nintendo I believe


I'm so torn

I love Nintendo and I love Divineo...


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## adgloride (Oct 7, 2006)

When you buy a console shouldn't you be allowed to do what you want with it?  I feel a whole knew debate coming on.


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## assassinz (Oct 7, 2006)

So 9-11 is a bad date for Divineo now too.


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## mthrnite (Oct 7, 2006)

This just sucks, regardless of my now rather low regard for Divineo. The DMCA has got to blow up at some point, as my daddy's fond of saying "Pigs get fat, and hogs get slaughtered." Maybe the lawsuits are good in that it advances the hog towards slaughter, I can only hope.

Both HDloader and mod chips have legitimate uses. I have no pirated stuff on my PS2 (ya rly!) and use HDloader to play everything that it'll boot. Like HugeCock said, it's faster and bypasses the crappy laser assembly. I want a modchip so I don't have to use the exploit disc and all that crap to boot up. Legitimate uses.

I'm sick of the American political process being whored out to big corperations to be used as a giant thumb on my head. In fact I'm pretty damn tired of the American political process period.

The crap these good for nothing fat-cats get by with wads my panties all the way up to my neck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The DMCA makes innocent people into criminals, and that ought to be against the damn law!


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## skywarp (Oct 7, 2006)

There has to be something more to the story, HDLoader is not illegal, and neither are most modern modchips(since they are sold without the BIOS).


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## RueGorE (Oct 7, 2006)

QUOTE(laguerzinho @ Oct 6 2006 said:


> Isn´t Lik-Sang also Chinese?
> 
> Wasn´t they sued by Sony Europe?
> 
> ...




Valid points indeed, but if I'm not mistaken, the problem is the process of getting those "backup" games to work by using devices that force a console to boot a copied game. This is circumventing technologies that were in place to prevent such things to happen, thus making those devices illegal to use.

I'm quite sure it's legal to make one backup copy of any game software you own, but I'm not so sure if it's okay to play them in place of the original disc or cartridge. Distributing (sell, rent or giving away freely) your backups are flat out illegal in most countries, no doubt about that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I could be totally wrong but this is what I've come to understand of the laws.


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## snazzypants (Oct 9, 2006)

What does this really mean?  Are they going out of business or what?  I am looking to order an M3+Passkey3 very soon and was going to do it through divineo.  Should I steer clear?


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## morcar (Oct 9, 2006)

If you have the real DVD in your house and you want to back it up tough sony wants you to run your dvd drive in your ps2 into the ground so that you can buy a ps3 or even a ps2 again it`s simple really.


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## enarky (Oct 9, 2006)

PS2-Scene also reports about it. Some interesting information in the forum thread there, too.


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## DiegoCJ (Oct 9, 2006)

*Did they sued only the US store or all of them?

If it is only the US store, they can declare bankrupcy and still do business with the other stores around the world...*


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## Mehdi (Oct 9, 2006)

QUOTE(adgloride @ Oct 7 2006 said:


> When you buy a console shouldn't you be allowed to do what you want with it?Â I feel a whole knew debate coming on.




I agree. If we buy it we buy the whole damn thing so we can mod it and it shouldnt be illegal. However the modified Bios in the modchip is illegal which would be a copyright crime.


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## legendofphil (Oct 9, 2006)

Its not the BIOS that makes a mod chip illegal, its the fact it gets around the copy protection of the console.
The HDLoader also does this, i'm not sure if it backs up copies but you can rent or borrow games you don't own and copy them that way.

You can mod a console all you want, it is yours to do with what you want but don't expect to have any warranty left afterwards.

You can install a mod chip into your console if you wish but there are safe guards to make sure you can't play those copies (or even originals after that point) online.

The legallity of mod chips (et al) has only been confirmed in some countries and the laws on copyrights are also a grey area in some countries.
At the end of the day it is mainly those companys that have been directly affected by them that pursue a legal course of action.


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## SYN7HOR (Oct 9, 2006)

What pisses me off the most about this whole huge-corporation-sues-small-companies-and-ultimately-destroys-them thing is that they're interfering with technological development. Which means they are fucking with mankind. Filesharing is ofcourse the best example.

Noone will go to the store and buy a plastic case in 10 years. Then the gameproducers WILL find another way to get paid. The games will still be made. That's just the way the market works.



QUOTE(mthrnite @ Oct 7 2006 said:


> I'm sick of the American political process being whored out to big corperations to be used as a giant thumb on my head. In fact I'm pretty damn tired of the American political process period.


Thank you.

I find it disturbing how few americans feel that way.


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## melloncollie (Oct 9, 2006)

QUOTE(mthrnite @ Oct 6 2006 said:


> I'm sick of the American political process being whored out to big corporations to be used as a giant thumb on my head. In fact I'm pretty damn tired of the American political process period.



That's called the Elitist Theory.
It's more than likely incorrect.
That is, alone it is incorrect.
America's government is a combination of Pluralism and Elitism.
On paper America's government is a wonderful thing.
Put into play, it bites the big one when people don't follow the rules (all of the time).

Now about This suit:
This is like busting  the car dealership that sold the car to a drunk driver who just happened to crash into someone else.
What sense does that make?
People use it for piracy, don't delude yourselves into thinking we're all straight shooters.
Just like many of us use our flash carts for piracy (me included).
But to slam the guys who sell this stuff?
All of these modchips do have non-piracy uses.
Of course though, It's Sony.


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## mthrnite (Oct 9, 2006)

QUOTE(melloncollie @ Oct 9 2006 said:


> America's government is a combination of Pluralism and Elitism.
> On paper America's government is a wonderful thing.
> Put into play, it bites the big one when people don't follow the rules (all of the time).


Forgive my populist rant. I'm a pragmatist by day, honest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




This DMCA stuff just really gets my goat. The "Big Guys" _are_  playing by the rules in this case, it's just a very faulty ruleset.

..and you know, I'd be all about the "trickle down economics" if the stuff trickling down on me was desirable (it's not.)
Big business has had the reins for quite a while now, and I don't see the nation, or the world for that matter, being any better for it.

oops, my populism is showing again....


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## HugeCock (Oct 9, 2006)

QUOTE(SYN7HOR @ Oct 9 2006 said:


> What pisses me off the most about this whole huge-corporation-sues-small-companies-and-ultimately-destroys-them thing is that they're interfering with technological development. Which means they are fucking with mankind. Filesharing is ofcourse the best example.


How does this even compre to filesharing? I was affected huge by filesharing in a good way. As a young video producer in 2000 Kazaa and Morpheus helped my company grow and make over 500 thousand dollars. It was an effective way for small buisnesses to legitly get their name out there and advertise. By the time RIAA got done doing all the bullshit they did everyone is now afraid...or the majority is afraid to use these services which now criples my buisness. Kazaa had a purpose other than piracy......and that was letting small buisnesses grow.

So I am not exactly sure how selling modchips is comparative? 

The whole.....you can make one or two back ups legaly argument must be flawed because it seems these companies are trying VERY HARD to stop you from making your backups. From Macrovision to UMDs to Gamecubes "mini discs" to the upcoming discs with chips in them...it seems these companies do NOT want you backing up your product so the argument "you can make one backup" may be as moot as saying "you can have a rom on your computer for 24 hours" 

As a consumer I feel this does suck cause it makes things a bit of a hassle for me or less convienient. The music world never wanted MP3's and imagine if MP3 players were outlawed like HD loader and mod chips were .... luckily there were more music lovers and we somewhat one that war. HD Loader was the BEST thing to happen to the PS2 in MANY ways like MP3s were to music. I mean what is the difference?

Regarding the price of the fine I think it's really just scare tactics like suing some 80 year old woman who lives in a trailer 800 thousand dollars for her grand daughter downloading Pirates of the Carabean. It makes the news and it scares people like me to download movies. In reality that 800 grand will never be seen but the MPA or whoever won the case just got a very anti piracy ad across the globe. "Avreage joe gets sued lots of money and you can be next". I see the same thing going on here. I was thinking of opening my own cart shop for shits and giggles and now....HELL NO. The juice aint worth the squeeze. Is kicktrading making enough to want to fight this fight? Don't know but this move has to have scared some small buisnesses.


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## SYN7HOR (Oct 9, 2006)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> How does this even compre to filesharing?


I used filesharing as an example of when big companies interfere with technological developments - that benefits the whole of mankind - because it threatens their profits.

One of the most disturbing parts about corporate power, and an eye-opener, is that Bechtel actually tried privatizing RAINWATER in Bolivia. Because the people naturally revolted, Bechtel tried suing. Google it. have come to the point where I believe big companies are, by far, the biggest threat to humanity. And no, I'm not a hippe.


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## skywarp (Oct 10, 2006)

QUOTE(legendofphil @ Oct 9 2006 said:


> Its not the BIOS that makes a mod chip illegal, its the fact it gets around the copy protection of the console.



Maybe that's how it works in the UK, but not in the US and Canada. That's why most mod-chip devs are never shut down, same thing with the sites selling them. Like others have said, the abilitiy to do something illegal with an object doesn't automatically make said object illegal. Unless you guys have crazy laws over there in Europe. Most modchips AS SOLD are actually incapable of doing anything illegal such as going around copyright protection, it's the bios that allows them to do so.


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