# Is Sharing Illegal ?



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

Notice how they call it 'Sharing'

"we need your help to prevent this from happening again" 

and we are watching you !!!!


----------



## proflayton123 (Mar 19, 2017)

bruh


----------



## The Catboy (Mar 19, 2017)

Sharing is caring ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

This letter is whats being posted all round the UK What would you do If you got one?


----------



## linuxares (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> This letter is whats being posted all round the UK What would you do If you got one?


Get a VPN and continue like nothing.


----------



## proflayton123 (Mar 19, 2017)

What does it mean by sharing what tho, pirated content?


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

proflayton123 said:


> What does it mean by sharing what tho, pirated content?


well read the letter
How hard would it be to prove it? 
Sharing means receiving and giving right, so would that make it equal responsibility for parties involved?


----------



## endoverend (Mar 19, 2017)

All I see is a generic copyright notice which all ISPs have been giving out since bittorrent existed. Solution? Don't pirate, or if you do, use a VPN that allows P2P or just use private trackers.


----------



## MeAndHax (Mar 19, 2017)

Omg sky pisses me off so much off,
They earn billions,
Have unfair prices of 50€ a month and wonder why some people try to watch it for free... Sky logic


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

endoverend said:


> All I see is a generic copyright notice which all ISPs have been giving out since bittorrent existed. Solution? Don't pirate, or if you do, use a VPN that allows P2P or just use private trackers.



I'm not looking for a solution thank you, it's not my letter.
It just seems very much like Civil matters and grey area, that could easily be got out of,  or easily be prosecuted for, depending on what you say.
I'm guessing it would be very hard to prove if you plead the fifth.

I would just like to add its not unheard of innocent people being prosecuted. We all have a right of freedom and to do things which do not harm others in a malicious or threatening way.


----------



## Jacklack3 (Mar 19, 2017)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Sharing is caring ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


That's what @GhostLatte said about their virginity and look where they ended up.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> This letter is whats being posted all round the UK What would you do If you got one?


Praise the god of fire and move to Iceland


----------



## Jacklack3 (Mar 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> Praise the god of fire and move to Iceland


*praises the god of *fire**
*moves to *ice*land*
The god of fire I guess must not be very happy.


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 19, 2017)

Use one of those pirate firewalls if your going to "share" lol 

Peerblock is the last one I remember using, it might still be good? 

It's not 100% and a VPN would be better but if you have no money Peerblock or something like it is free.


----------



## Issac (Mar 19, 2017)

Yes, sharing is illegal. In most places, when it comes to piracy, it's the sharing that's the larger offence.

Downloading isn't always super serious, but uploading is. The uploader causes more damage than the downloader.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 19, 2017)

Jacklack3 said:


> *praises the god of *fire**
> *moves to *ice*land*
> The god of fire I guess must not be very happy.


You have spotted me contraction young one

You are learning fast


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> Praise the god of fire and move to Iceland


Iceland is not a bad shout if only it wasn't so damn cold, but hang on the god of fire will be there so its cool.  see what i did there. 

On a serious note Iceland is a cool country, they jailed all their dodgy wankers *cough cough* i Mean bankers, Icelanders are heroes.
Oh but wait a few did escape and are now working within the UK financial services. No wonder its so shit here haha


----------



## Jacklack3 (Mar 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> You have spotted me contraction young one
> 
> You are learning fast


I was wondering where my father went.


----------



## The Catboy (Mar 19, 2017)

Jacklack3 said:


> That's what @GhostLatte said about their virginity and look where they ended up.


Have you seen what happened to my virginity?


----------



## Jacklack3 (Mar 19, 2017)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Have you seen what happened to my virginity?


I don't watch furry porn, sorry.


----------



## Pluupy (Mar 19, 2017)

How was it "shared"? Was it a torrent that you seeded?

I'd get a VPN, honestly. I personally use private trackers, because most of the good public ones have gone down anyway, but a VPN is cheap and lets you do whatever you want.

Some VPNs cost $6 for 6 months. I think you can sacrifice an afternoon meal of a small-sized burger meal for six months of carefree plunder.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 19, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> How was it "shared"? Was it a torrent that you seeded?
> 
> I'd get a VPN, honestly. I personally use private trackers, because most of the good public ones have gone down anyway, but a VPN is cheap and lets you do whatever you want.
> 
> Some VPNs cost $6 for 6 months. I think you can sacrifice an afternoon meal of a small-sized burger meal for six months of carefree plunder.


Or just go oldschool... Pretty darn safe and heck of a lot faster.


----------



## Pluupy (Mar 19, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Or just go oldschool... Pretty darn safe and heck of a lot faster.


Um... you mean like ...literally stealing DVDs from stores? lol 

What do you mean "old school"?


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 19, 2017)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Have you seen what happened to my virginity?



I think I found it somewhere in the basement.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 19, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> Um... you mean like ...literally stealing DVDs from stores? lol
> 
> What do you mean "old school"?


Newsgroups


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Or just go oldschool... Pretty darn safe and heck of a lot faster.


by going old school do you mean actually handing, them to your mates for a week and then expecting them back ?


----------



## linuxares (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> by going old school do you mean actually handing, them to your mates for a week and then expecting them back ?


Even older than that. Closer to BBS, then again that would be IRC.


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Even older than that. Closer to BBS, then again that would be IRC.



Still quite popular in Taiwan I believe I watched a whole documentary about it haha, still don't know much about it. except that Taiwans are hardcore BBS users until this day.






Issac said:


> Yes, sharing is illegal. In most places, when it comes to piracy, it's the sharing that's the larger offence.
> 
> Downloading isn't always super serious, but uploading is. The uploader causes more damage than the downloader.



But Sharing in its purest sense is not Illegal though is it.
To make sharing Illegal is quite a ridiculous thing to do.
If a dispute arises because of a sharing issue then it is still a civil matter.
I don't see how that is any different here.
You don't go to criminal court do you, except on the very rare occasion they want to make an example out of you.
Even if its copyrighted its still a civil dispute between you and a private company, no criminal investigation will take place as its not a criminal matter.


----------



## Armadillo (Mar 19, 2017)

There's no consequence to getting one of those get it right letters. The campaign is just for "education". You get a letter asking you not to and that's it. If I got one, I'd just ignore it.

I use a vpn anyway, due to the whole of the UK being under Theresa May's watchful eye with the stupid snoopers charter anyway.


----------



## Issac (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> But Sharing in its purest sense is not Illegal though is it.
> To make sharing Illegal is quite a ridiculous thing to do.
> If a dispute arises because of a sharing issue then it is still a civil matter.
> I don't see how that is any different here.
> ...



No, of course sharing in its purest sense isn't illegal. Sharing pirated copyrighted content is illegal. Court or not, doesn't matter in the fact.
You don't go to court, nor is a criminal investigation taking place when you drive above the speed limit. You still get fined, and it's still illegal.


----------



## dAVID_ (Mar 19, 2017)

Just say what the co-funder of The Pirate Bay said:
''It's freedom of speech''.


----------



## evandixon (Mar 19, 2017)

dAVID_ said:


> Just say what the co-funder of The Pirate Bay said:
> ''It's freedom of speech''.


With freedom of speech, you are free to speak your mind, not steal the words of others despite them telling you specifically not to.

("Steal" in this context is a metaphore; I'm not trying to compare piracy to stealing since that's a complicated subject.)


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

I always loved this analogy: "What if your car was stolen but it was still in your driveway the next morning. Would you be mad and report it to the police?" That's kinda how I view piracy, or "sharing", because the laws against it are absolutely ridiculous as sales aren't actually hindered to the proportion that coorporations portray them to be.



Psionic Roshambo said:


> Peerblock


No. Just, no. Peerblock blankets entirely too many good peers as it blindly uses wildcards on IP ranges. Using community driven blocklists is a much better route to take (I recommend this one). If your client doesn't support using lists like this then you should get one like Transmission or Deluge. Also, investing in a cheap VPS and running your own private VPN on it is a much better idea than renting one from a third party.



evandixon said:


> With freedom of speech, you are free to speak your mind, not steal the words of others despite them telling you specifically not to.


That would be plagiarism, which piracy is not unless the one purveying pirated content is using it for monetization purposes. This wouldn't apply to those using pirated material itself to create original works. Like using a pirated copy of Photoshop or FL Studio.


----------



## Townsperson (Mar 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> I always loved this analogy: "What if your car was stolen but it was still in your driveway the next morning. Would you be mad and report it to the police?" That's kinda how I view piracy, or "sharing", because the laws against it are absolutely ridiculous as sales aren't actually hindered to the proportion that coorporations portray them to be.



That's a terrible analogy, that has literally nothing to do with piracy. Piracy doesn't affect a consumer. You didn't spend time and money designing that car, nor did you set up the manufacturing plants to make it. You wouldn't care if one was magically created for someone else, but the company that spent years designing it sure as hell will.


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

Townsperson said:


> That's a terrible analogy, that has literally nothing to do with piracy. Piracy doesn't affect a consumer. You didn't spend time and money designing that car, nor did you set up the manufacturing plants to make it. You wouldn't care if one was magically created for someone else, but the company that spent years designing it sure as hell will.


You obviously failed to perceive the analogy. As a consumer you spend thousands of dollars on said car, and often times either lease it or go into great amounts of debt over it. A company that designed and manufactured the car isn't affected by one being stolen since it is sold to a consumer, and obviously not directly stolen from them. It's a perfect analogy seeing as music, movies, and software are sold to a consumer before they are made available for pirates. Yes, even those that crack software must buy the software they are cracking before they release a crack. Even if they use a third party supplier, said supplier must buy a copy seeing as everything purveyed now is totally digital. You might wanna reconsider how much logic you have going on in your head.


----------



## Townsperson (Mar 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> You obviously failed to perceive the analogy. As a consumer you spend thousands of dollars on said car, and often times either lease it or go into great amounts of debt over it. A company that designed and manufactured the car isn't affected by one being stolen since it is sold to a consumer, and obviously not directly stolen from them. It's a perfect analogy seeing as music, movies, and software are sold to a consumer before they are made available for pirates. Yes, even those that crack software must buy the software they are cracking before they release a crack. Even if they use a third party supplier, said supplier must buy a copy seeing as everything purveyed now is totally digital. You might wanna reconsider how much logic you have going on in your head.



Pretty sure you don't actually grasp this. A company doesn't care about a stolen item. That's true. It was already sold, and they don't care anymore.

They do, however, care if that theft resulted in an additional quantity of that item existing. The reason piracy and theft differ is because theft means the person who lost the item no longer has it. Piracy results in additional copies of an item. Additional copies means the original creator of that product just lost out on additional sales because some random person on the internet decided to "share" something they bought.

A company could care less what you do with your unique copy of a product after they sell it to you. Sell it. Burn it. Give it away. But if you create additional copies of that product, you're cutting that company out of X amount of sales.

You're caught up in the fact that someone, somewhere, purchased something legitimately. But one person buying something shouldn't mean everyone else on the planet gets to have that thing for free.


----------



## froggestspirit (Mar 19, 2017)

Sharing=Illegal
Sharing=Caring
Caring=Illegal


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

Townsperson said:


> The reason piracy and theft differ is because theft means the person who lost the item no longer has it.


Thank you for validating my point.


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 19, 2017)

Piracy is illegal.
Sharing ANY copyrighted software is illegal.

The only way you can legitimately have a backup is that you've made it yourself and have the original still in your possession.
If you no longer got the original in your possession then you must destroy the backup copy as well.


----------



## Lacius (Mar 19, 2017)

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but you're basically asking to get these kinds of notices if you're downloading HBO shows via public torrents, especially if you're seeding. HBO and the people working for them are notorious for monitoring public torrents.

Get a VPN or find another means of downloading HBO shows.


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Piracy is illegal.
> Sharing ANY copyrighted software is illegal.
> 
> The only way you can legitimately have a backup is that you've made it yourself and have the original still in your possession.
> If you no longer got the original in your possession then you must destroy the backup copy as well.


Nobody's really arguing that, but rather the morality behind the laws.


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 19, 2017)

Jacklack3 said:


> I don't watch furry porn, sorry.



It's better than the alternative 


Edit: *Ahem* I mean, I have no idea what that is, sorry


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> Nobody's really arguing that, but rather the morality behind the laws.



It's morally wrong to pirate.


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> It's morally wrong to pirate.


Read my previous posts on why it's not.


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> Read my previous posts on why it's not.



It's violating copyright.
You can't justify it.
Both morally and legally.


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> It's violating copyright.
> You can't justify it.
> Both morally and legally.



True, but legality rarely stops people from doing it.


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 19, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> True, but legality rarely stops people from doing it.



Murder is morally wrong and illegal yet that doesn't stop some from committing it.


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Murder is morally wrong and illegal yet that doesn't stop some from committing it.



Uh.. *sigh* that was a stupid thing for me to make an example out of, time for me to bail.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Mar 19, 2017)

Yeah sure we get piracy is morally wrong, but thats why most ppl tend to be anonymous about it.
If ppl get notices like this and they know their in the wrong then we shouldn't have to see posts like this one


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> It's violating copyright.
> You can't justify it.
> Both morally and legally.





DinohScene said:


> Murder is morally wrong and illegal yet that doesn't stop some from committing it.


What a strawman you got there. Comparing the copying the files to actually ending someone's life is reaching rather far. Regardless, you're pretty damn ignorant if you think it can't be morally justified. I suppose groups like Rights Corps. are morally justified for pulling extortion maneuvers. Because, y'know, extortion through intimidation is _totally _legal and morally justifiable. I suggest educating yourself a bit.


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> What a strawman you got there. Comparing the copying the files to actually ending someone's life is reaching rather far. Regardless, you're pretty damn ignorant if you thinking it can't be morally justified. I suppose groups like Rights Corps. are morally justified for pulling extortion maneuvers. Because, y'know, extortion through intimidation is _totally _legal and morally justifiable. I suggest educating yourself a bit.



Piracy lands you in jail and so does murder.
It doesn't differ much in the eyes of a judge.
But if you want to put it like that then pretty much everything is morally wrong.


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Piracy lands you in jail and so does murder.
> It doesn't differ much in the eyes of a judge.
> But if you want to put it like that then pretty much everything is morally wrong.


Piracy actually doesn't land one in jail most of the time. Making monetary gain from it and being a major purveyor does. Downloading stuff will just get you a snarky letter consisting of "oooooh, you better stop or we're gonna waste more time sending you letters". See the OP for an example on how third parties use scare tactics in order to intimidate consumers into not pirating material when in truth they can't do anything about it because they're not a legal entity.


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> Piracy actually doesn't land one in jail most of the time. Making monetary gain from it and being a major purveyor does. Downloading stuff will just get you a snarky letter consisting of "oooooh, you better stop or we're gonna waste more time sending you letters". See the OP for an example on how third parties use scare tactics in order to intimidate consumers into not pirating material when in truth they can't do anything about it because they're not a legal entity.



Have you ever heard of Kongsknutz or Kongsnutz?
Temp member who got a fat fine?

It isn't that rare to see people get jail sentences for pirating.
Music industry has done it before.


----------



## Joom (Mar 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Have you ever heard of Kongsknutz or Kongsnutz?
> Temp member who got a fat fine?
> 
> It isn't that rare to see people get jail sentences for pirating.
> Music industry has done it before.


Yeah, he got that for being a purveyor. I already covered that.


----------



## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 19, 2017)

Issac said:


> The uploader causes more damage than the downloader.


the uploader allows the downloader to succ


----------



## MasterJ360 (Mar 19, 2017)

I really haven't heard anything big from online piracy since the Megaupload incident, but thats probably b/c SOPA was in affect in that time period
Jail time is usually more prone to the hoster than the downloaders


----------



## Patxinco (Mar 19, 2017)

Didn't Jesus, iirc, doubled and shared fish? And he inspired a religion...


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (Mar 19, 2017)

In France, downloading became illegal in 2010, that was the Hadopi law. A huge failure. Even if you do it on purpose, it's almost impossible to get caught and risk anything. The law even almost disappeared during a Parliament session on Sunday when only 16 MPs were present out of 577.


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 19, 2017)

Issac said:


> No, of course sharing in its purest sense isn't illegal. Sharing pirated copyrighted content is illegal. Court or not, doesn't matter in the fact.
> You don't go to court, nor is a criminal investigation taking place when you drive above the speed limit. You still get fined, and it's still illegal.


ah very good point.

so maybe an investigation should take place, don't you think? to see if anything illegal has in-fact happened. Now being a civil matter in the first instance, the private company would have to fund the investigation themselves.

Upon paying a speeding ticket or even only receiving a notice, you are actually admitting there and then, that you are breaking a contract of the civil laws that govern the land right?
So you are basically agreeing to 'settle out of court' and on the spot or within a few weeks. (normally for a lesser charge)
So from a civil stand point, you only enter the contract once you accept that you have broken it.
If 4 people are sharing/registered to a single car, How would they prove who was driving on the day of the "incident". I'm guessing they couldn't easily prove it unless they had some pretty clear pictures, or unless someone would agree to 'settle out of court' by paying the fine. Naturally a domestic discussion would take place in the household and the 'Guilty' party be pressured by friends and family to pay the fine.

My point is most of the time these people, are relying on us to tell them truth about what happened or in this case just settle out of court quickly and quietly, (for them at least) but it often leaves a distressing trail for the household affected, and its threatening to get these letters etc.


----------



## Issac (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> ah very good point.
> 
> so maybe an investigation should take place, don't you think? to see if anything illegal has in-fact happened. Now being a civil matter in the first instance, the private company would have to fund the investigation themselves.
> 
> ...


Well, there should be evidence when these letters are sent. The ISP logs the traffic and have some sort of evidence... there are cases though when shady companies leeches off of these letters sending fakes. 

But otherwise it sure is a "settle this out of court quickly" deal with these issues. Then again, you also have to remember which country this takes place in, some are more strict than others, and some have rules for or against certain things regarding piracy.
Here in Sweden, they decided that the ISPs HAVE to block piracy sites for their users. It's horrifying!


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 20, 2017)

Issac said:


> Here in Sweden, they decided that the ISPs HAVE to block piracy sites for their users. It's horrifying!


Yes exactly but if ISP logs the Traffic in the first case that is more horrifying IMO, I would prefer to be Censored rather than monitored. 


DinohScene said:


> Piracy is illegal.
> Sharing ANY copyrighted software is illegal.
> 
> The only way you can legitimately have a backup is that you've made it yourself and have the original still in your possession.
> If you no longer got the original in your possession then you must destroy the backup copy as well.





Joom said:


> Nobody's really arguing that, but rather the morality behind the laws.



I agree with what you have been saying and I like the car analogy.

DinohScene this response 



Spoiler






DinohScene said:


> The only way you can legitimately have a backup is that you've made it yourself and have the original still in your possession.
> If you no longer got the original in your possession then you must destroy the backup copy as well.





 is what could land you a fat fine when being questioned. (it's a very grey area, civil matters are allowed to be very grey areas)

Lets say that you have a keen hobby of PS4 game collecting, so you think it's okay to make some backup versions to preserve the original, and you lend your Back ups to a mate, who then uploads them to a site.
Eventually they come after him, and the bread crumb trail leads back to you. You get invited to court
as a witness perhaps.
Thinking you are innocent in all of this, proceed to talk to  the Lawyers sent from lets say 'Sony' next thing you know, you are there in the stand defending yourself. Just because you thought it was legitimate when it isn't.
Sony has enough money and power to make an example of you and your friends, and suing you for massive amounts of money already would make you shit scared, and make you feel like you life was going to end. Most people would not or could not afford a decent lawyer. Most likely you will lose all your friends and branded as a pirate and thief, So before the case even begins you are on the back foot, depressed and disheartened, Mainly due to intimidation.
I'm willing to bet you wouldn't feel that was very moral of Sony if they put you in that situation? Especially if you 'believed' you were acting within the law.

Its clear that they are relying on our peoples honesty and willingness to explain and help them. But in the end, we screw our selves up for not knowing, and being scared.
Right of free speech, or in this case freedom of silence , or pleading the fifth if you are in US, Is important. That is there so you don't unknowingly implicate yourself to a crime. 
Like in this scenario. It might just save you.

Through intimidation we are obedient it seems.

Imagine we refused to be intimidated by corporate threatening letters, invitations to a court hearing and refused any correspondence or dates. or people knocking at your door.
What would happen?
Then it would have to go to a criminal court right ? but only if there is enough evidence to warrant a strong criminal case against you right?
I'm not to sure on these details. anyone know?


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 20, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> Yes exactly but if ISP logs the Traffic in the first case that is more horrifying IMO, I would prefer to be Censored rather than monitored.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, making copies for personal use is allowed, the lending to mates etc isn't.
DVD and Blu-ray movies state that showing it in public or places with lots of people is prohibited.
Has been that way since the VHS afaik.
Not entirely sure on the "lending it to another person"..
But ofcourse, this is with retail discs n what not.

Well, Sony has the right to defend their intellectual property.

I'm no expert on law, otherwise I wouldn't been here probably...
But at least I'm doing me part by not showing it in public, nor lending it to another person.
Filthy fingers getting their dabs on me shit, no ty.

Anyway, I dun live in the US but rather living in the "continent with more freedom" of Europe.
Which laws are somewhat relaxer then the US's.


----------



## goldensun87 (Mar 20, 2017)

endoverend said:


> All I see is a generic copyright notice which all ISPs have been giving out since bittorrent existed. Solution? Don't pirate, or if you do, use a VPN that allows P2P or just use private trackers.


All ISPs?  You sure about that?  Because, I have been pirating with AT&T service for years now, and I did not receive a warning letter even once.  Such warning letters are the reason that I avoid subscribing to cable-based internet like Charter though.  I know that people under Charter, have received such warning letters.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 20, 2017)

Well I'm going to be honest here.
I pirate somethings like TV series and Movies. If I like them enough, I buy the bluray of them.
Same with other things as well. I wish to do a try before buy.

Persona 4 Golden for example on the PSVita. Pirated it, loved it, bought it. I'm the rarebreed that likes to own physical copies and also support the creators so we get more content from them.

A rare case I have today is "Story of Season: Trio of towns". I wanted to buy it and surprise my girlfriend. Could I do it? Nope! It isn't sold in Europe. So I actually have to pirate it since she can't play it in her 3DS (it isn't hacked, she doesn't want it to be.)

This is why I like that that Switch is regionfree. I already imported a game since it got a physical copy in Japan.


----------



## Haloman800 (Mar 20, 2017)

"Sharing" may be illegal in most cases, but that doesn't make it immoral. Similarly, slavery being legal in the past (and still today in some African countries) does not make it moral.

Legality != morality.


----------



## endoverend (Mar 20, 2017)

goldensun87 said:


> All ISPs?  You sure about that?  Because, I have been pirating with AT&T service for years now, and I did not receive a warning letter even once.  Such warning letters are the reason that I avoid subscribing to cable-based internet like Charter though.  I know that people under Charter, have received such warning letters.


Then you're probably just doing it right. Granted some ISPs are more watchful than others, but high ticket items like stuff from the Sony Pictures leak last year is monitored by most major ISPs.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 21, 2017)

endoverend said:


> Then you're probably ju doing it right. Granted some ISPs are more watchful than others, but high ticket items like stuff from the Sony Pictures leak last year is monitored by most major ISPs.


Not exactly. It's monitored by third party companies, like CCI or Logistep AG, who then contact the ISP associated with the IP they sniff and then they send out the notices. The most notorious system was the CAS, which a lot of major ISPs in the US used, but that was shut down at the end of January. 

ISPs themselves don't monitor anything related to copyright infringement, most of them couldn't give a rats ass as long as you're paying them delicious cash to do it. It's the third party companies that track and notify the ISPs that are really "sending" them, your ISP just sort of "forwards" them along (and occasionally they just don't). 

At least, that's how it works in the US generally. I know a few places in Europe are a bit more strict about it.


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 21, 2017)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Not exactly. It's monitored by third party companies, like CCI or Logistep AG, who then contact the ISP associated with the IP they sniff and then they send out the notices. The most notorious system was the CAS, which a lot of major ISPs in the US used, but that was shut down at the end of January.
> 
> ISPs themselves don't monitor anything related to copyright infringement, most of them couldn't give a rats ass as long as you're paying them delicious cash to do it. It's the third party companies that track and notify the ISPs that are really "sending" them, your ISP just sort of "forwards" them along (and occasionally they just don't).
> 
> At least, that's how it works in the US generally. I know a few places in Europe are a bit more strict about it.


Delicious Cash yuk those words should never be used together I did chuckle though and reminds me of one of my Favourite Native American Quotes "when will the white man realise you cannot eat money"

Maybe we the people should set up a third party company to monitor where all the fucking money goes after its magically made out of thin air.


----------



## Monty Kensicle (Mar 21, 2017)

Hi-Dro said:


> Notice how they call it 'Sharing'
> 
> "we need your help to prevent this from happening again"
> 
> and we are watching you !!!!


"Informed" which means absolutely nothing, you can get those on one of those lists for merely watching a bit torrent stream and even have to download anything. Tell them "Fuck you, prove it." But maybe a little nicer than that.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Mar 21, 2017)

Patxinco said:


> Didn't Jesus, iirc, doubled and shared fish? And he inspired a religion...


He got jailed and executed, right? /s

PS: Sure the establishment didn't like him sharing in public.


----------



## goldensun87 (Mar 21, 2017)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Not exactly. It's monitored by third party companies, like CCI or Logistep AG, who then contact the ISP associated with the IP they sniff and then they send out the notices. The most notorious system was the CAS, which a lot of major ISPs in the US used, but that was shut down at the end of January.
> 
> ISPs themselves don't monitor anything related to copyright infringement, most of them couldn't give a rats ass as long as you're paying them delicious cash to do it. It's the third party companies that track and notify the ISPs that are really "sending" them, your ISP just sort of "forwards" them along (and occasionally they just don't).
> 
> At least, that's how it works in the US generally. I know a few places in Europe are a bit more strict about it.


Trackers...are those scripts that can be blocked by the likes of NoScript and ScriptSafe?  Could that be how copyright owners are unable to catch me?  But what about BitTorrent?  Are there ways of tracking the use of the BitTorrent program?  Or, can these trackers only track people who are visiting torrent hosting websites?


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 21, 2017)

goldensun87 said:


> Trackers...are those scripts that can be blocked by the likes of NoScript and ScriptSafe?  Could that be how copyright owners are unable to catch me?  But what about BitTorrent?  Are there ways of tracking the use of the BitTorrent program?  Or, can these trackers only track people who are visiting torrent hosting websites?


The companies don't monitor torrent sites, they monitor the torrent trackers (which is what connects people together to share the files you're downloading). Basically they connect to the torrent trackers, search for copyrighted content, and then collect the IP addresses who are uploading that content. Then they attempt to download a piece of the copyrighted content to compare it to their own piece to confirm it is indeed copyrighted content. If it is, they note the IP address, the content that's being downloaded, and the time it's downloaded. Then they identify the ISP from the IP, and send the ISP the notification that you're downloading illegal content. 

There are a few ways to sort of block them from doing that, but they're not 100% foolproof. 

One way is to block all the known IP addresses the companies use to track the content so they aren't able to download anything from you. This doesn't work 100% because IPs can always change. 

Another is to use private torrent trackers, as you have to be registered to a site with it's own tracker that generally allows users to only sign up via an invite from another member. Since no one is likely to invite a torrent tracking company, it's "safer" than public torrents. But sometimes they'll get in from open registrations, or someone will give them their user account for whatever reason etc etc and you'll still get a notice.

You can also use a VPN, which is the most effective way to avoid being caught for multiple reasons. One, the VPN uses a different IP address than you so the IP they collect can't necessarily be traced back to you. Two, VPNs encrypt your traffic (unlike proxies) so you ISP itself wouldn't be able to confirm you're actually torrenting instead of, say, downloading a game on Steam or something. But despite being the most effective, you can still get caught if the VPN your using doesn't allow torrent and they receive a notice but they'll usually use cancel your account and that's it. There are torrent-friendly VPNs out there, though. 

As to why you've never been "caught", there are a lot of reasons. As I mentioned, some ISPs don't bother with notifications at all and just ignore them, sometimes the tracking software can't verify the piece they're downloading from you is copyrighted, you might have your upload rate set to really low so on one is able to download as much from you etc etc. They also can't monitor the activity of the millions upon millions upon millions of people torrenting stuff, either, they usually prioritize the original uploader first (even though that's difficult to find).

The best way to not get caught is to simply not torrent and use other methods if you absolutely have to.


----------



## spotanjo3 (Mar 21, 2017)

Issac said:


> Yes, sharing is illegal.



I know but that's the stupid things I have ever heard. If sharing is illegal then they are jealous. Sharing is caring. Nothing's wrong with that as long as we purchased things and shared. Thats our money and not theirs!


----------



## Issac (Mar 21, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> I know but that's the stupid things I have ever heard. If sharing is illegal then they are jealous. Sharing is caring. Nothing's wrong with that as long as we purchased things and shared. Thats our money and not theirs!


Sharing in this sense is "sharing copyrighted (or pirated) material". Copying a CD you bought yourself, and giving it to a close friend is legal up to 5 times (at least here in Sweden). 

I hope you don't seriously think it's okay to share a game for example to 10,000 people just because you bought it.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Mar 21, 2017)

Spelling it like sharing makes it seem that lending a friend a game disc would be illegal, and perhaps companies want us to eat that, but no thanks.
Hell, you can even borrow games for free from the library here in Germany. How would it be illegal to lend a game disc to a friend?


----------



## Issac (Mar 21, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Spelling it like sharing makes it seem that lending a friend a game disc would be illegal, and perhaps companies want us to eat that, but no thanks.
> Hell, you can even borrow games for free from the library here in Germany. How would it be illegal to lend a game disc to a friend?



It says: "Copyrighted material has been shared using your broadband connection". It has nothing to do with borrowing or lending stuff to a friend.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 21, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Spelling it like sharing makes it seem that lending a friend a game disc would be illegal, and perhaps companies want us to eat that, but no thanks.
> Hell, you can even borrow games for free from the library here in Germany. How would it be illegal to lenda game disc to a friend?


There's a big difference between sharing a disc and sharing digital content. Sharing a disc basically "transfers" the license from one person to another (you both can't play the same disc at the same time). Sharing "digital" content isn't transferring the license, it's essentially just copying it and giving it to another person which is the illegal part.


----------



## spotanjo3 (Mar 21, 2017)

Issac said:


> Sharing in this sense is "sharing copyrighted (or pirated) material". Copying a CD you bought yourself, and giving it to a close friend is legal up to 5 times (at least here in Sweden).
> 
> I hope you don't seriously think it's okay to share a game for example to 10,000 people just because you bought it.




You are very funny. No... Not to 10,000 people that I don't know and one of them might be undercover police or something like that.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 21, 2017)

MasterJ360 said:


> I really haven't heard anything big from online piracy since the Megaupload incident, but thats probably b/c SOPA was in affect in that time period
> Jail time is usually more prone to the hoster than the downloaders


Kat.cr was shut down in the last 4 years... it was pretty much the size of megupload


----------



## fatsquirrel (Mar 21, 2017)

If you have to question yourself if something is illegal, it MOST LIKELY IS


----------



## OrGoN3 (Mar 21, 2017)

Yes, sharing copyrighted material that you are not the copyright holder of is indeed illegal.


----------



## goldensun87 (Mar 22, 2017)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> The companies don't monitor torrent sites, they monitor the torrent trackers (which is what connects people together to share the files you're downloading). Basically they connect to the torrent trackers, search for copyrighted content, and then collect the IP addresses who are uploading that content. Then they attempt to download a piece of the copyrighted content to compare it to their own piece to confirm it is indeed copyrighted content. If it is, they note the IP address, the content that's being downloaded, and the time it's downloaded. Then they identify the ISP from the IP, and send the ISP the notification that you're downloading illegal content.
> 
> There are a few ways to sort of block them from doing that, but they're not 100% foolproof.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I torrented from 2007-2011, but mostly TV shows, and since then, I have been using filehosting sites for 99% of the things I download, I only torrent when I absolutely have to.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Mar 22, 2017)

natanelho said:


> Kat.cr was shut down in the last 4 years... it was pretty much the size of megupload


I believe they shutdown temporarily during the SOPA period Piratebay did the same thing. They weren't forcefully taken down like Megaupload was by the FBI


----------



## Hi-Dro (Mar 22, 2017)

fatsquirrel said:


> If you have to question yourself if something is illegal, it MOST LIKELY IS


This is a ridiculous thing to say, civil matters are nothing like criminal matters. and this is but a civil matter and is not as clear cut as you seem to think. hence the OP.
a chinese proverb comes to mind
"He who asks questions is a fool for 5 minutes he who does not remains a fool forever"

it's like saying, if water is blue then the sky must be water. Now we know the sky is not water, because we posses knowledge about the sky.
Most people don't posses knowledge about the law especially civil and therefore get tricked by it when a police or bailiff or even private security man comes knocking at their door. They use their clever legalise language which can often enter you into a contract unknowingly, or implicate you. (as mentioned in previous posts)
It's not as obvious as you think and therefore worth knowing a little about these laws. Most people break laws on a daily basis without knowing, because those laws are so old that they are not enforced anymore or because its a civil law being broken therefore a dispute between 2 parties. Which go's unreported. does that make it okay?


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 22, 2017)

MasterJ360 said:


> I believe they shutdown temporarily during the SOPA period Piratebay did the same thing. They weren't forcefully taken down like Megaupload was by the FBI


Nooooooooo, KAT got taken down in July. https://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-kickasstorrents-domains-charge-owner-160720/

They came back in December though.


----------



## dAVID_ (Apr 2, 2017)

The Biggest Dillema Since The DMCA Was Created™


----------



## jimbo13 (Apr 2, 2017)

The laws depending on where you live vary greatly but any traditional reading of the fair use doctrine gives the thumbs up to file sharing.

Ethically there is nothing objectionable about file sharing imo, legally speaking it is generally more of a civil issue unlikely to find it's way to you unless you're uploading a lot.

I refuse to be inconvenienced because dinosaur media has refused to adapt to the technological realities and expect everyone to jump through hoops while they cling to ancient business models.

Copyright, patent, IP this is all antiquated bullshit when a primary commodity of society can be replicated out of thin air and I consider every download my way of telling them to grow up and adjust to the times because I am sick of them stifling innovation.

Imagine farmers suing Picard for using a food replicator on Startrek, or being a food pirate.


----------



## Hi-Dro (Apr 4, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> The laws depending on where you live vary greatly but any traditional reading of the fair use doctrine gives the thumbs up to file sharing.
> 
> Ethically there is nothing objectionable about file sharing imo, legally speaking it is generally more of a civil issue unlikely to find it's way to you unless you're uploading a lot.
> 
> ...



Amen to that bro (love the avatar


----------

