# Iwata: Wii U/3DS will cater to core gamers first, mass market second



## Wizerzak (May 1, 2012)

Nintendo's strategy with the 3DS's early years and its forthcoming Wii U launch is to put core-orientated games ahead of efforts to attract the mass market, according to CEO Satoru Iwata.
Speaking in an investor Q&A following its financial report last week, Iwata explained that the platform holder has learned from mistakes made with the Wii.
While that console succeeded in attracting new customers with more casual titles such as Wii Sports, he admitted Nintendo had then struggled to convince core gamers to take the platform seriously, which negatively impacted the system's long term success.
"The Wii was able to reach a large number of new consumers who had never played games before by bringing hands-on experiences with its Wii Sports and Wii Fit," he explained.
"However, we could not adequately create the situation that such new consumers played games frequently or for long, consistent periods. As a result, we could not sustain a good level of profit.
"Moreover, regrettably, what we prioritised in order to reach out to the new audience was a bit too far from what we prioritised for those who play games as their hobby. Consequently, we presume some people felt that the Wii was not a game system for them or they were not willing to play with the Wii even though some compelling games had been released."
Accordingly, Iwata explained, it decided not to flood the 3DS's early release slate with casual games, instead prioritising core titles such as Super Mario 3D Land, Kid Icarus: Uprising, Ocarina of Time 3D and Mario Kart 7. It intends to take a similar approach with the Wii U when it launches later this year.
"Once consumers have a notion that 'this system is not for us', we have learned that it is extremely difficult to change their perceptions later," said Iwata.
  Source (and rest of article)

Well, it's not like we didn't already know this this but it's good Nintendo have finally come out and admitted that the Wii wasn't the best for gamers and that they will definitely take a different approach with the Wii U.


----------



## Deleted User (May 1, 2012)

Lets hope they keep their promise.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

> Core titles
> _Super Mario 3D Land, Kid Icarus: Uprising, Ocarina of Time 3D and Mario Kart 7_

*leaves thread*


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> While that console succeeded in attracting new customers with more casual titles such as Wii Sports, he admitted Nintendo had then struggled to convince core gamers to take the platform seriously, which negatively impacted the system's long term success.


Well maybe the Wii would have continued doing well if you hadn't dropped all fucking support for the system in 2011.



Foxi4 said:


> > Core titles
> > _Super Mario 3D Land, Kid Icarus: Uprising, Ocarina of Time 3D and Mario Kart 7_
> 
> *leaves thread*


Because those aren't core titles?


----------



## Deleted User (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> > Core titles
> > _Super Mario 3D Land, Kid Icarus: Uprising, Ocarina of Time 3D and Mario Kart 7_
> 
> *leaves thread*


Funny, those 3 games you listed are amazing video games.


----------



## RupeeClock (May 1, 2012)

brandonspikes said:


> Lets hope they keep their promise.


Agreed, it would be very understandable if they said this because they know it's the core gamers who make up for all of the launch-date sales.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> Because those aren't core titles?


Not in my book.

_Ocarina of Time_ _3DS _is simply a game that sucks on the nostalgia of long-term Nintendo fans, that's its only purpose.

_Kid Icarus: Uprising_ is quite similar, just from a different angle. If not for games like Smash Bros. which have collectibles featuring Pit, most gamers wouldn't even know who the hell he was - it's clearly directed not at the core gamer but the old school Nintendo crowd.

Don't get me started on _Mario 3D _- Mario's just... not a core title. It's a Nintendo franchise cartered for Nintendo fans, not the general group of gamers.

Not saying that those games are bad - hell no. They're just not directed at the core gamer, they're directed at core Nintendo fans, and there's a huge difference.

Resident Evil: Revelations - that's a core title. Emphesize that.



brandonspikes said:


> Funny, those 3 games you listed are amazing video games.


Amazing non-core video games. That's the only point I'm making.


----------



## Joe88 (May 1, 2012)

you know its not a "core title" when you can just open the start menu and have the game play its self


----------



## KingVamp (May 1, 2012)

See, the Wii was meant to go for everyone, not just the causals.



soulx said:


> Well maybe the Wii would have continued doing well if you hadn't dropped all fucking support for the system in 2011.


Wasn't it because of the wii u?


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> _Ocarina of Time_ _3DS _is simply a game that sucks on the nostalgia of long-term Nintendo fans, that's its only purpose.
> 
> _Kid Icarus: Uprising_ is quite similar, just from a different angle. If not for games like Smash Bros. which have collectibles featuring Pit, most gamers wouldn't even know who the hell he was - it's clearly directed not at the core gamer but the old school Nintendo crowd.
> 
> ...


With all that said, what do you consider core titles? Because in my book, Kid Icarus (which is a great game regardless of the fact that Pit may not be a well-known character), Super Mario 3D Land (which is a solid platformer) and Mario Kart 7 (which is well Mario Kart) are all core titles.

And I checked the actual translated Q&A and it turns out Nintendo hasn't even said that. That's assumptions by Eurogamer (typical videogame journalism).
http://www.nintendo....20427qa/03.html


----------



## yuyuyup (May 1, 2012)

3DS is fantastic, Kid Icarus is superb w/ experimental camera control, Super Mario 3D Land great, lots of great e-shop titles like Sakura Samurai, lots of great video content (most from Sony,) 3DS is possibly the greatest system of all time.  Every day I slap myself in the face to wake up from the nightmare that the Vita has no 3d.  This is the worst decision Sony has ever made.  People saying "3D is a GIMMICK" simply blow my mind.  3D is the absolute next evolution in graphics and gameplay.

If you think 3D is a gimmick, then I demand that you sell one of your eyes.  You do not deserve depth perception.  Good luck jumping over lava pits in real life.

Also I'm not impressed with Wii U but new features/gameplay ideas for 2 screens/big specs might convince me otherwise.

Another edit: Vita still looks really great even without 3D and I will probably eventually get one.  But my god I wish it had 3d.  I am literally slapping myself raw.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> With all that said, what do you consider core titles? Because in my book, Kid Icarus (which is a great game regardless of the fact that Pit may not be a well-known character), Super Mario 3D Land (which is a solid platformer) and Mario Kart 7 (which is well Mario Kart) are all core titles.
> 
> And I checked the actual translated Q&A and it turns out Nintendo hasn't even said that. That's assumptions by Eurogamer (typical videogame journalism).
> http://www.nintendo....20427qa/03.html


To me, a core title is a title that is supposed to draw the attention of the average gamer with no preference or even opposing preference to itself. It has to be fresh, new, innovative. This is why core titles are usually new IP's or multiplatform ones. The target audience are gamers. Not "Nintendo Gamers" or "Sony Gamers" or "PC Gamers" or "XBox Gamers". Just gamers.

A core title has to have the qualities that will make it appealing even to those who do not have a given console and had no previous plans of purchasing it - it has to be definitive and genre-defining, it has to reach to hights never before reached while not cartering to any specific group of gamers.

That's my take.


----------



## Gahars (May 1, 2012)

Core vs. causal, that debate isn't all that important. Having a healthy supply of quality games is all that really matters; that is what the focus should be on.


----------



## RoMee (May 1, 2012)

Why would core gamers come back to Nintendo?
All they do is rehash old franchise. Their third party support is still a joke.

I'll believe it when I see it. But for now Nintendo remains a casual brand.








> I had a chance to talk with Rasmus Hoejengaard, Crytek's Director of Creative Development, on what we can expect out of _Crysis 3_. We covered stuff like the overall plot, new weapons, abilities and how PC players can expect high-end support when the game releases next Spring.
> As for Wii U support, Rasmus told us there's "*not a fat chance*" of the game appearing on Nintendo's next system. Probably for the best, I still don't see how first-person shooters will be any fun on that hulking controller.


----------



## Midna (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> To me, a core title is a title that is supposed to draw the attention of the average gamer


Then a core title is Call of Duty, and EA Sports. The very newest game in the respective series, to be more specific.
I think your notions of the 'average gamer' are a tad idealized.


----------



## MakiManPR (May 1, 2012)

yuyuyup said:


> 3DS is fantastic, Kid Icarus is superb w/ experimental camera control, Super Mario 3D Land great, lots of great e-shop titles like Sakura Samurai, lots of great video content (most from Sony,) 3DS is possibly the greatest system of all time.  Every day I slap myself in the face to wake up from the nightmare that the Vita has no 3d.  This is the worst decision Sony has ever made.  People saying "3D is a GIMMICK" simply blow my mind.  3D is the absolute next evolution in graphics and gameplay.
> 
> If you think 3D is a gimmick, then I demand that you sell one of your eyes.  You do not deserve depth perception.  Good luck jumping over lava pits in real life.
> 
> ...


3D IS a gimmick. There was a report that said that 80% of the 3DS owners didn't like 3D. Even Nintendo started to promote in their TV Spot and ads that you can turn the 3D off.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

MakiManPR said:


> 3D IS a gimmick. There was a report that said that 80% of the 3DS owners didn't like 3D. Even Nintendo started to promote in their TV Spot and ads that you can turn the 3D off.


Before I got a 3DS, I would agree with you. Now that I have one, I think 3D is as relevant as HD visuals.

3D can really enhance the presentation of certain games as well as help a bit with the gameplay. Recently, 3D has helped me really get immersed in the jungle in MGS3D as well as truly feel like I'm in Hyrule Fields in Ocarina of Time 3D. 3D certainly isn't just a _gimmick_.


----------



## yuyuyup (May 1, 2012)

MakiManPR said:


> yuyuyup said:
> 
> 
> > 3DS is fantastic, Kid Icarus is superb w/ experimental camera control, Super Mario 3D Land great, lots of great e-shop titles like Sakura Samurai, lots of great video content (most from Sony,) 3DS is possibly the greatest system of all time.  Every day I slap myself in the face to wake up from the nightmare that the Vita has no 3d.  This is the worst decision Sony has ever made.  People saying "3D is a GIMMICK" simply blow my mind.  3D is the absolute next evolution in graphics and gameplay.
> ...



* Study: 28 percent of 3DS owners don't care for 3D effects*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms248DrsEGE
http://www.neogamr.net/news/study-28-percent-of-3ds-owners-dont-care-for-3d-effects


----------



## gamefan5 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> MakiManPR said:
> 
> 
> > 3D IS a gimmick. There was a report that said that 80% of the 3DS owners didn't like 3D. Even Nintendo started to promote in their TV Spot and ads that you can turn the 3D off.
> ...


Agreed. And it helped me a LOT of times in Kid Icarus Uprising to dodge effectively AND to snipe from afar.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

Midna said:


> Then a core title is Call of Duty, and EA Sports. The very newest game in the respective series, to be more specific.
> I think your notions of the 'average gamer' are a tad idealized.


Call of Duty used to be a core title before it established an obnoxious cult around it, but even now it shows glimpses of splendor here and there. Sports games on the otherhand are typically targeted at sports fans - they're not exactly core.

Perhaps my idea is a bit idealized, but to me, the difference between core and non-core is the difference between _"Twillight"_ and _"Lord of the Rings"_ or _"Discworld"_.

A core title needs to have this everlasting appeal, a quality that is hard to describe in words. Casual is a completely different thing - those types of games are supposed to draw the attention of gamers and people who are not particularily interested in gaming. They're supposed to be played in short sittings and give quick "injections of fun", alternatively they're supposed to be played at parties by groups of people. The definitive feature of those games is simply "Grab and Play" - they need to be painfuly obvious about how a typical non-gamer is supposed to approach them, alternatively, they need to teach the gamer how to play them in the course of those short sittings, and not by means of a tutorial but by means of clever design, for instance like New Super Mario Bros. does.

So yeah, that's my categorization, I hope it was elaborate enough to explain my previous statement.


----------



## chyyran (May 1, 2012)

The term "core gamer" is so ambiguous, half the thread was about defining it.
There is no such thing as a "core gamer" or a "hard-core gamer" or "casual gaming". Those are terms so ambiguous, it's confusing.
Seriously, what is the difference between "hard-core" and "casual" gaming? Everyone seems to have a different definition for those terms.

Here's something most people can agree on

Shovelware and Not Shovelware


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

Punyman said:


> The term "core gamer" is so ambiguous, half the thread was about defining it.
> 
> There is no such thing as a "core gamer" or a "hard-core gamer" or "casual gaming". Those are terms so ambiguous, it's confusing.
> 
> ...


That's like saying there's no difference between FPS, TPS and SHUMP's because in all those you shoot at thing.


----------



## KingVamp (May 1, 2012)

MakiManPR said:


> 3D IS a gimmick. There was a report that said that 80% of the 3DS owners didn't like 3D. Even Nintendo started to promote in their TV Spot and ads that you can turn the 3D off.


Do you know...that 72% of statistics are made up on the spot?


Foxi4 said:


> So yeah, that's my categorization, I hope it was elaborate enough to explain my previous statement.


You are just confusing things even more...


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

Punyman said:


> What Ninty has to do is get better 3rd party support. Most games in the 3DS library at the moment, that aren't 1st party are shovelware. There are quite a few exceptions (Tales, RE, etc..) but shovelware outweighs non-shovelware pretty badly. *They have to stop letting random devs in for a quick buck develop for their systems.*


Yeah, that's never going to happen. On any platform. You can't restrict devs from your platform just because you consider their games shovelware.


----------



## chyyran (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Punyman said:
> 
> 
> > The term "core gamer" is so ambiguous, half the thread was about defining it.
> ...



FPS, TPS and SHUMPs are easily defined

A FPS is a shooter in which you're in a first person perspective

A TPS is a shooter in a third person perspective

A SHUMP is a shooter, often in a third person perspective where the aim is to basically shoot everything you see, often a mass of enemies.

Most people can all agree on this.

The terms "hard-core" and "causual" are much harder to define.

Everyone has a different opinion of what it means, therefore making the terms relatively useless


----------



## gamefan5 (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Then a core title is Call of Duty, and EA Sports. The very newest game in the respective series, to be more specific.
> ...


Well, I like your statement about casual gaming because that's exactly what it stands for. Although, core titles can be defined in many different ways. For me a core title needs to lure gamers, while staying true to it's formula (FPS, Platformers, etc). Not only that, it needs something that keeps you coming back for more... I'm not sure how I can explain this clearly but that's my take.


----------



## Eerpow (May 1, 2012)

I think that thanks to the main approach the Wii had, some of the main staples released lacked the depth of their GameCube counterparts. Not only that but games like F-Zero or even what could have been new IP's didn't get to see the light of the day thanks to Nintendo's approach. 
Both Mario Kart and Smash Bros were toned down on the Wii in order to cater to a bigger market. What Nintendo now realizes is that they lose a lot of consumers by not providing a experience that satisfies both ends.

But I'm glad we're already seeing them taking steps in the right direction with the 3DS, I mean just look at how much of an improvement Mario Kart 7 is over the Wii and DS titles in terms of gameplay.

Now I hope that they steer Mario into the right direction again and that they get around making the games the Wii didn't get to see.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

Punyman said:


> FPS, TPS and SHUMPs are easily defined
> 
> A FPS is a shooter in which you're in a first person perspective
> 
> ...


Except nowadays they're no longer easily-defined as genres tend to blend. you get FPS'es with RPG elements on a daily basis, same with TPS'es. A boundry that is hard to define is still a boundry - for some people Fallout: New Vegas will be a typical shooter with a long storyline, for others it's going to be an epic role-playing adventure.

The definition is in the name - casual games are made for casual gaming. On the bus or on the tram for 5 to 10 minutes with little to no involvement of your brain. Everything else is either a core game or a game for a specific audience, it's really not that hard to define those two.

Hard-core on the otherhand is a stupid term - here we agree.


----------



## chyyran (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> Punyman said:
> 
> 
> > What Ninty has to do is get better 3rd party support. Most games in the 3DS library at the moment, that aren't 1st party are shovelware. There are quite a few exceptions (Tales, RE, etc..) but shovelware outweighs non-shovelware pretty badly. *They have to stop letting random devs in for a quick buck develop for their systems.*
> ...



At least, restrict them from releasing their shovelware. Get play testers to rate it before it goes out.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> Well, I like your statement about casual gaming because that's exactly what it stands for. Although, core titles can be defined in many different ways. For me a core title needs to lure gamers, while staying true to it's formula (FPS, Platformers, etc). Not only that, it needs something that keeps you coming back for more... I'm not sure how I can explain this clearly but that's my take.


I agree to the point where it has to stay true to the formula, but to me a formula can always be improved upon in numerous ways, and its those improvements that make given titles memorable.



Punyman said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Punyman said:
> ...


Nobody forces any of you to buy shovelware. If you don't like it, ignore it.


----------



## chyyran (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Punyman said:
> 
> 
> > FPS, TPS and SHUMPs are easily defined
> ...









'Nuff said

Forgot about all the other great "casual" puzzle games out there..Prof. Layton..Ace Attorney..Even Tetris requires thinking


----------



## RoMee (May 1, 2012)

Midna said:


> Quoting destructoid again? That's a bad source. The entire article was conjecture and opinion on the part of the author, with only three words being an actual quote. It's possible, even probably that Crysis 3 is not coming to the Wii U due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period.





> Not a fat chance


Rasmus Hoejengaard's words, not destructoid. Those words is all that is relevant 

About the 5:20 mark
[yt]IDCDNlGhgdE#![/yt]


Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".
It means that shit ain't gonna happen.

But that's off topic...


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

Punyman said:


> 'Nuff said
> 
> Forgot about all the other great "casual" puzzle games out there..Prof. Layton..Ace Attorney..Even Tetris requires thinking


That's not what I meant when I said "involvement of the brain" lol, I do see how it might've sounded ambiguous though. Good call.

What I wanted to say was that casual games are "casual", it's not the game itself or the characters in it that become memorable, but rather the mechanics. Casual games have little to no story - you don't "think" about them when you stop playing, they don't really leave an imprint on you like an RPG would for example.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (May 1, 2012)

I'd say Mario games are about as "core" as you can get. Excluding the "oh wow, Wii Sports!!!" and "I'm hardcore because all I play is what people tell me is cool" people, the real reason most people buy a system over another is because of the game selection. You buy a Nintendo system expecting a Mario, Zelda, Smash Brothers, et al knowing you can't get those games elsewhere. That has alwasys been Nintendo's core audience.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

RoMee said:


> Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".


Er, yeah it does.

Unless this is your ridiculous way of trying to say that the Wii U isn't as powerful as the PS3/360.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> I'd say Mario games are about as "core" as you can get. Excluding the "oh wow, Wii Sports!!!" and "I'm hardcore because all I play is what people tell me is cool" people, the real reason most people buy a system over another is because of the game selection. You buy a Nintendo system expecting a Mario, Zelda, Smash Brothers, et al knowing you can't get those games elsewhere. That has alwasys been Nintendo's core audience.


This is what I tried to tackle earlier though - it's a core title _for Nintendo's audience and little to nobody else_ unless it's expertly done.

The problem with iconic characters is that they carry a stigma of implied repetitiveness. A person who does not follow the development of for example Pokemon games will say _"Black and White 2? Dude, I already played one Pokemon game - I played them all."_ which is not always the case, obviously.

A core title should appeal to a wider audience than just the fans of a given franchise or company, but I suppose it's a matter of personal opinion.


----------



## chyyran (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Punyman said:
> 
> 
> > 'Nuff said
> ...




Personally, I myself consider Professor Layton, or Pheonix Wright a "casual" game, contrary to your post, I do think about them, and they do leave an imprint on me long after completion. 

Therefore, my definition of "casual" contradict your definition, which goes back to my original argument, the terms "hard-core" and "casual" have so many different meanings, and are so ambiguous, the terms are practically useless. Words are meant to convey your thoughts, but those terms fail to do so.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> RoMee said:
> 
> 
> > Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".
> ...


I think they're afraid of making it "gimmicky".

They're trying to make a simple shooter - point at things, press buttons and make them die. They're not interested in touchscreen functionality, 3DS functionality, exclusive content and so on and so forth - they want to release a game that will be virtually identical on all platforms and on the WiiU, it's "Fat Chance" that leaving the touchscreen _untouched _(see what I did there?) would fly.



Punyman said:


> Personally, I myself consider Professor Layton, or Pheonix Wright a "casual" game, contrary to your post, I do think about them, and they do leave an imprint on me long after completion.
> 
> Therefore, my definition of "casual" contradict your definition, which goes back to my original argument, the terms "hard-core" and "casual" have so many different meanings, and are so ambiguous, the terms are practically useless. Words are meant to convey your thoughts, but those terms fail to do so.


Layton games can be defined as casual because they're divided in bite-sized chunks - you're not forced to engage yourself in a long sitting. Phoenix Wright games are similar, however here it's a matter of game structure rather than a deliberate attempt at making the game casual.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > RoMee said:
> ...


Honesly, that would be a pretty lame excuse. There's nothing restricting them from doing precisely that.

The Wii U controller has all the inputs of a regular controller. If they don't want to use the tablet screen, just put a goddamn Crytek logo there.


----------



## RoMee (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> RoMee said:
> 
> 
> > Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".
> ...



*Noun* *1.* *fat chance* - little or no chance of success


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> The Wii U controller has all the inputs of a regular controller. If they don't want to use the tablet screen, just put a goddamn Crytek logo there.


No it doesn't. Where are the analog triggers? They're a standard on controllers since PS2 times - where are they? That's a big issue I have with the controller.

Nintendo has the time to add cameras and a touchscreen to the controller but couldn't add something as simple as analog triggers?

And what's with the slider mania? Why not analog sticks with a button underneath them like in the case of PS3 and the 360 - a feature that should become a staple of the next generation systems? Sliders *aren't comfortable*, you use them on portable systems, not home console controllers.

The WiiU controller is *not* a typical controller, this much has to be said. It adds new features but lacks in those that should be standard by now.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

RoMee said:


> *Noun* *1.* *fat chance* - little or no chance of success


And?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> Under that definition, Resident Evil: Revelations can be defined as casual as it's divided into "bite-sized chunks" (chapters).


No.

It's divided into chapters because it's a "home console game formula" that was altered to work on a portable system. It's core.


----------



## RoMee (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> RoMee said:
> 
> 
> > *Noun* *1.* *fat chance* - little or no chance of success
> ...



Man, do I really have to draw you a picture?
Google is your best friend soulsnatcher.

This is like trying to tell Warren Jeff's followers he's not a prophet.


----------



## gamefan5 (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I like your statement about casual gaming because that's exactly what it stands for. Although, core titles can be defined in many different ways. For me a core title needs to lure gamers, while staying true to it's formula (FPS, Platformers, etc). Not only that, it needs something that keeps you coming back for more... I'm not sure how I can explain this clearly but that's my take.
> ...


Yes of course, improvements are always a good thing. Or else a game series could get pretty stale.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > The Wii U controller has all the inputs of a regular controller. If they don't want to use the tablet screen, just put a goddamn Crytek logo there.
> ...


Yeah and none of the issues that you've presented prevent them from porting the game over. Analog triggers and a circle-pad wouldn't prevent them from bringing the game over. Not to mention that the controller is still a work-in-progress.



RoMee said:


> Man, do I really have to draw you a picture?
> Google is your best friend soulsnatcher.
> 
> This is like trying to tell Warren Jeff's followers he's not a prophet.


When they say that, they're referring to the chances of the game coming to the Wii U. Not whether it will "succeed" on the platform.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> Yeah and none of the issues that you've presented prevent them from porting the game over. Analog triggers and a circle-pad wouldn't prevent them from bringing the game over. Not to mention that the controller is still a work-in-progress.


That's another thing. The WiiU appears to be _always in progress_. It's like the console's in a limbo - developers periodically recieve updated devkits for it and CryTek isn't f*cking around - their goal is creating a ground-breaking engine that will stun you with its visuals - when the functionality of the devkit fluctuates, you can't really work in a stable environment required for achieving such feats.



soulx said:


> If I read your post correctly, you defined games as casual depending on whether they were divided into bite-sized chunks. Revelations fits that example.


A bite-sized chunk is a level of Angry Birds, not a chapter in Resident Evil. C'mon - you KNOW what I meant. 

Nit-picky revenge, is it?


----------



## heartgold (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> _Kid Icarus: Uprising_ is quite similar, just from a different angle. If not for games like Smash Bros. which have collectibles featuring Pit, most gamers wouldn't even know who the hell he was - it's clearly directed not at the core gamer but the old school Nintendo crowd.


My my, Kid Icarus is not aimed for old school Nintendo crowds alone. Have you seen the how much they advertised the heck out it since the reveal E3 2010 to get a wider appeal. To begin with It's a completely different game compared to the originals so no it's just not targeting just the the older crowd who knew Kid Icarus. The single player is one of the best on the 3DS as of today and the multiplayer is really well done and intensifying. I've never played the NES/GB versions, yet after seeing the gameplay I was sold.

I see no reason why it wouldn't appeal to non Nintendo fans(so called core gamers), it is a fantastic game. This game is right up there with Resident Evil :Revelations with its offerings and most people will agree. Unless core games is now determined by mature content, not cartoon-ish looking and must be shooter.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah and none of the issues that you've presented prevent them from porting the game over. Analog triggers and a circle-pad wouldn't prevent them from bringing the game over. Not to mention that the controller is still a work-in-progress.
> ...


Well it hasn't been released yet. Of course they're still going to change some things. But I suppose that's a valid point. They may not have enough resources to work on porting the game over.

_And yeah, I was being nitpicky. :_


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > _Kid Icarus: Uprising_ is quite similar, just from a different angle. If not for games like Smash Bros. which have collectibles featuring Pit, most gamers wouldn't even know who the hell he was - it's clearly directed not at the core gamer but the old school Nintendo crowd.
> ...


I never said that it's not a good game - it appears to be good, I am yet to play it so I have no definite opinion, to me it doesn't appear to be a core game. As a person who never played Kid Icarus, the only thing that draws me to it is the formula which is one that I particularily like - the cast or the story don't really seem all that appealing to me.



> I see no reason...


...why Gunpowder treason... 



> why it wouldn't appeal to non Nintendo fans(so called core gamers), it is a fantastic game. This game is right up there with Resident Evil :Revelations with its offerings and most people will agree. Unless core games is now determined by mature content and must be shooter.


I'll give you my definite opinion when I get to properly playtest it - I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen in videos and heard/read in reviews here. The only game that I actually _properly _played from the mentioned roster is OOT 3D and I wasn't particularily amused by it, it just seemed... dated, despite the remaking.




soulx said:


> Well it hasn't been released yet. Of course they're still going to change some things. But I suppose that's a valid point. They may not have enough resources to work on porting the game over.
> 
> _And yeah, I was being nitpicky. :_


----------



## Wizerzak (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


How the hell is KI:Uprising NOT a 'core' game? It's not a rehash (which apparently, according to you means a game isn't 'core', although there's hundreds of 'core' games that have sequels), it has original, intense and competitive gameplay and it is one of the system major games at this point in time.
Now, no matter how you view the terms 'core' and 'casual' (which is subject to opinion as to what they mean exactly), Kid Icarus is definitely the former - along with MK7, SM3DL and OoT (which isn't made 'solely for nostalgia' - I haven't played the original but am LOVING 3DS version).


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> How the hell is KI:Uprising NOT a 'core' game? It's not a rehash (which apparently, according to you means a game isn't 'core', although there's hundreds of 'core' games that have sequels), it has original, intense and competitive gameplay and it is one of the system major games at this point in time.
> Now, no matter how you view the terms 'core' and 'casual' (which is subject to opinion as to what they mean exactly), Kid Icarus is definitely the former - along with MK7, SM3DL and OoT (which isn't made 'solely for nostalgia' - I haven't played the original but am LOVING 3DS version).


While I agree that Kid Icarus may be arguably core, I don't think that MK7, SM3DS or OoT3D are, not by a long shot, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, we already derailed the thread enough.


----------



## emigre (May 1, 2012)

I would love to see Ninty getting third parties to produce core games on their systems. Because quite frankly, Nintendo games alone are not going to satisfy the typical core gamer. There needs to be a greater variation.


----------



## Eerpow (May 1, 2012)

Yeah you have to have a very specific taste in order to get full enjoyment out of Kid Icarus Uprising, you have to be the kind of gamer who likes to play at hard levels in order to beat high scores and unlock stuff.
Because of that I don't see it as a core title even if we define Nintendo gamers as a core audience.

Personally I love the main campaign to death but I really don't see me playing it online without getting a system comparable to what Mario Kart 7 offers, the game does have a Nintendo Network logo on the box so it will hopefully get an online update sometime soon in order to fix this problem. So until then I don't see it having an appeal to the average gamer.


----------



## Midna (May 1, 2012)

RoMee said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Quoting destructoid again? That's a bad source. The entire article was conjecture and opinion on the part of the author, with only three words being an actual quote. It's possible, even probably that Crysis 3 is not coming to the Wii U due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period.
> ...


Fat chance, as you've ounted out, means it won't happen. However, it could be not happening for any number of reasons. Bad relations with Nintendo, not wanting to design additional functions for the controller, Crysis launch period not co-inciding with Wii U launch period...

Wait a second, I never actually stopped to figure out why you were actually posting that. You just posted the article, without any explanation. Why is it *YOU* think they aren't giving the Wii U a port, and how is it relevant to this topic?


----------



## Forstride (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Nobody forces any of you to buy shovelware. If you don't like it, ignore it.








So I guess that doesn't apply to people feel who the need to enter these threads and bitch about every action Nintendo makes?

Nobody forces any of you to play Nintendo games. If you don't like it, ignore it.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

TDWP FTW said:


> So I guess that doesn't apply to people feel who the need to enter these threads and bitch about every action Nintendo makes?
> 
> Nobody forces any of you to play Nintendo games. If you don't like it, ignore it.


There's nothing wrong in constructive criticism. I do agree that people who only criticize Nintendo products for being Nintendo products shouldn't participate in threads like this one though.

There's a myriad of things I "like" about the WiiU that I could write an elaborate essay on and only a handful of things I'd like to see improved, hence I focus on the latter hoping for some improvements rather than the former and blindly praise.


----------



## Janthran (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Because those aren't core titles?
> ...


I never really played the first OoT, and I enjoyed OoT3D anyway.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 1, 2012)

1. Shovelware has become a very diluted term. I even overheard someone saying the Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing game coming out for 3DS is "shovelware"
2. The people on this forum aren't the typical Shovelware purchasers. That would be the people most likely NOT to visit these forums. Grandmas, clueless parents, and kids who know fuck all about good games besides "Oooh it's pink and it has a baby on it!"
3. Complaining about shovelware won't do a damn thing, really, besides make YOU feel better. The only way to combat shovelware is to educate the clueless about good games, and how to spot the horrible ones.


----------



## Deleted User (May 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Because those aren't core titles?
> ...


Core means system selling titles. Herp derp
Not hardcore


----------



## Foxi4 (May 1, 2012)

brandonspikes said:


> Core means system selling titles. Herp derp
> Not hardcore


Core ---> For the core gamer ---> For the gamer who doesn't give two flips about what system the game is for as long as the game's interesting for whatever reason.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 1, 2012)

Well it's hard to appeal to a core audience when you're still using fucking circle pads.

Protip: Use analog sticks like you're supposed to.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

soulx said:


> Wizerzak said:
> 
> 
> > While that console succeeded in attracting new customers with more casual titles such as Wii Sports, he admitted Nintendo had then struggled to convince core gamers to take the platform seriously, which negatively impacted the system's long term success.
> ...



Ex - Fraking - actly. I LOVE Nintendo like crazy but they constantly piss me off with this notion that they have to kill the current console a year before the new one comes out. As much as I hate Sony, Nintendo could take a pair from their book and allow the current console to stick around for another few years while the new one gains it's user base. They could use the "leaving" console to grab new inde devs and smaller companies and also use the older system as a training ground for the next system, Also Nintendo could still rack up the dough from software sales and licensing fees from the smaller devs still using the older console. 

"Nintendo! What... the... frak... is... wrong... with YOU!?"

There's money to be made from all angles yet they refuse to accept it.  Not every person will be dropping money for a Wii U. There are a LOT of people who A) got the Wii because it was cheap and B) who absolutely love Nintendo yet, do not have the money to keep pouring into new hardware.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

You want to know what core titles are?

Skyrim
CoD games
Diablo
Uncharted
Battlefield
Torchlight
Borderlands

the list goes on, but Mario, Kirby, LoZ, Kid Icarus, etc... are NOT on that list.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> You want to know what core titles are?
> 
> Skyrim
> *CoD games*
> ...


----------



## Heran Bago (May 2, 2012)

Anyone can talk, Iwata. Talk is cheap.



Foxi4 said:


> *leaves thread*


If you want to leave a thread then just do it. Don't post about doing it and then not do it.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > You want to know what core titles are?
> ...



Like it or not, they fit the definition of core games. I personally hate the series.


----------



## KingVamp (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> You want to know what core titles are?
> 
> Skyrim
> CoD games
> ...


How do people do it? Oh yes, like this.
>Make up a random list without explanation.
>Expects people to take your post seriously.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> How do people do it? Oh yes, like this.
> >Make up a random list without explanation.
> >Expects people to take this post seriously.



Well all of those are relatively kick ass games the Wii U isn't getting.

So yeah. At least I can get like... all of those except Uncharted and Diablo. Well I have Uncharted: Golden Abyss but nothing main series.


----------



## Jan1tor (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > The Wii U controller has all the inputs of a regular controller. If they don't want to use the tablet screen, just put a goddamn Crytek logo there.
> ...



But it does have the triggers on the underside as well as left & right buttons on the top. There is a picture of the back of the controller here http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/wii-u-back.jpg


----------



## KingVamp (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > How do people do it? Oh yes, like this.
> ...


You don't know what the future holds and there are possible sequels that can possibly go on the wii u,but that besides the point.

The point is, the words "core titles" are only seem to be used to fit one personal agendas now a days vs what they actually are
base on this thread.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

Jan1tor said:


> But it does have the triggers on the underside as well as left & right buttons on the top. There is a picture of the back of the controller here http://sickr.files.w.../wii-u-back.jpg


Analog, pressure-sensitive triggers a'la Gamecube is what I want.  Those don't look pressure-sensitive to me, but I may be wrong.



Heran Bago said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > *leaves thread*
> ...


I'm merely answering to people who quote me, my stance has been thoroughly explained by now and I have nothing to add to it - it's right there in the first post.

Ignoring inquiries would be rude to say the least, but I suppose you have a point.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

I love these threads, and some trolling words from somebody causing a lot of debates on internet.

3DS has great Nintendo-sided titles, whose I love, but it lacks 3rd party support. You see, a more variety of games(which I prefer because of gameplay). I already have enough platformers, Mario everywhere, Kirby and zeldas. Ideas like street fighter running on Nintendo systems is what I'm talking about.


----------



## Catastrophic (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> mysticwaterfall said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say Mario games are about as "core" as you can get. Excluding the "oh wow, Wii Sports!!!" and "I'm hardcore because all I play is what people tell me is cool" people, the real reason most people buy a system over another is because of the game selection. You buy a Nintendo system expecting a Mario, Zelda, Smash Brothers, et al knowing you can't get those games elsewhere. That has alwasys been Nintendo's core audience.
> ...


it is a matter of personal opinion. The way I understand you is that a core game is a well crafted game that a wide variety of people can enjoy. However, doesn't a wide variety of people enjoy games such as Mario, Zelda etc? If people buy a Nintendo console then one can only assume they buy Nintendo games, so why shouldn't the Nintendo audience be counted as core gamers than anyone else? Just because they like a specific series doesn't mean they hate others.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

Catastrophic said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > mysticwaterfall said:
> ...




You must have forgotten that according to most of the gaming world, Nintendo gamers aren't real gamers and I say this with aggravation in my voice. Look at gaming websites and magazines and how they treat Nintendo and those of us who play their consoles. It's why I hate terms like "Core Games" and "Hardcore Gamers". Honestly, "Hardcore Gamers" are just duchebags who treat gaming as a blood sport. -Nuff said


----------



## YayMii (May 2, 2012)

Just jumping in here. They mentioned "core games". Aren't those the games that are important to the company?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

In all honesty, a lot of Nintendo gamers only consider "core games" to be their Marios and Zeldas and Metroids. I mean we've already seen some boos and hisses here when someone had the audacity to bring up Call of Duty as a "core" game.

I mean it's just two sides of the coin. Nintendo hardcore fans will see their Nintendo exclusives as "core games" while other people will see other things as "core games". I think we're a bit too busy arguing definitions that are unique to each individual and not the whole "Iwata is saying he's not producing as much casual shit" issue at hand.

EDIT: For the record I was pretty tired when I wrote this so I have no fucking clue if it makes sense.


----------



## Midna (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> In all honesty, a lot of Nintendo gamers only consider "core games" to be their Marios and Zeldas and Metroids. I mean we've already seen some boos and hisses here when someone had the audacity to bring up Call of Duty as a "core" game.
> 
> I mean it's just two sides of the coin. Nintendo hardcore fans will see their Nintendo exclusives as "core games" while other people will see other things as "core games". I think we're a bit too busy arguing definitions that are unique to each individual and not the whole "Iwata is saying he's not producing as much casual shit" issue at hand.
> 
> EDIT: For the record I was pretty tired when I wrote this so I have no fucking clue if it makes sense.


I am for once finding myself in complete agreement with Guild
You should post when you're tired more often


----------



## ferofax (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> You want to know what core titles are?
> 
> Skyrim
> CoD games
> ...


Five pages in and people are still confusing *"core titles"* with *"hard core titles"*.

just proves how "out-of-touch" Nintendo and western gamers are. I think what Iwata was trying to say when he meant "core games" is that they are the nucleus of Nintendo. they are central games, easily identifiable as Nintendo's own and none other. which is why Resident Evil was not mentioned. just take the word "core" and go look at the dictionary. Nintendo is trying to win back their core gamers (fanbase), and what better to win them over than titles that has Nintendo all over it? i mean, they wouldn't be fans if they didn't at least like Nintendo games.

EDIT: anyways, core titles will always be different between consoles/gaming platforms. don't be so stiff about it, people. the whole gaming world does not revolve on those titles alone, especially not where Nintendo is concerned.




YayMii said:


> Just jumping in here. They mentioned "core games". Aren't those the games that are *important to the company*?


This. They are games that build a console (and a company) up. They are games that their platforms are *famous *for. That should put into light how relevant those "core titles" are to Nintendo.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

ferofax said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > You want to know what core titles are?
> ...



So...in other words "We are going to be doing the same shit we've been doing for the past 15 years"? I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant.


----------



## ferofax (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> ferofax said:
> 
> 
> > TwinRetro said:
> ...


and i'm pretty sure that's not what he meant too. but just because the games they do aren't on that list you put up doesn't mean it'll be the same vanilla. i mean, seriously. have a good look and tell me if it's vanilla. they are still Nintendo titles, but look at the new features they're getting. most are going online, with stronger multiplayer features. they're not nearly as good as on some platforms feature-wise, but you cannot honestly say they are the same as back when they were still offline titles. if you cannot at least see that, then you've obviously decided that Nintendo will always be doing the same shit no matter what they do.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (May 2, 2012)

Nintendo has finally realized that families and 12 year olds aren't the gaming majority?


----------



## YayMii (May 2, 2012)

On another note, didn't Miyamoto say he was creating a new character and revealing it sometime soon? I'm sure that the new characters/games/whatever are going to be targeted at this "core gamer" audience.


----------



## cris92x (May 2, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Nintendo has finally realized that families and 12 year olds aren't the gaming majority?


They are the gaming majority, but they don't buy on average as many games as a 'true' gamer. Look at their hardware sales its insane except many poeple see consoles as expensive toys and seldomly buy games. On the other hand you have a loyal fanbase that buys most of the core titles along with other third party games. There is nothing gained when a gaming company is able to sell mass amounts of hardware but software sales are lacking, this has been a problem for nintendo since the gamecube, third party software sells like shit. Nintendo needs to build on having a larger fanbase, those core players that are repeating customers so that other companies feel secure about releasing a game on a nintendo console and hopefully this time around they will get it right.


----------



## shakirmoledina (May 2, 2012)

but it didnt matter as i see it that the wii was more casual as it was successfully to a great extent
casual is not bad but i guess tht wasnt nintendo's aim


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Nintendo has finally realized that families and 12 year olds aren't the gaming majority?



Yeah, or maybe they figured either Sony and Microsoft were taking away their precious old school gamers because of lack of "core" games on their devices.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

cris92x said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo has finally realized that families and 12 year olds aren't the gaming majority?
> ...



Third party sells like shit because of two reasons only

A) "Nintendo Only" fanboys dont buy third party games. I'm a Nintendo fanboy but I DO play third party games. I remember having so many arguments about this on the old nintendo.com forums. It's annoying as hell!

B) Third parties dont give Nintendo a chance which makes Nintendo console owners say "F*ck them". They either
-Create a crappy version of their game not worthy of the specs of the Nintendo console at the time
-Not advertise their game at all then expect people to buy their damn game when nobody knew that the damn thing was coming out (can we say CoD on Wii and Dead Space Extraction). Then they have the nerve to bitch about it when it was their fault in the first place.
-Avoid Nintendo consoles all together because they have some stupid ass notion that Nintendo is kiddy when they're the ones acting like rebellious children against a parent.

Need I say more?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> You must have forgotten that according to most of the gaming world, Nintendo gamers aren't real gamers and I say this with aggravation in my voice. Look at gaming websites and magazines and how they treat Nintendo and those of us who play their consoles. It's why I hate terms like "Core Games" and "Hardcore Gamers". Honestly, "Hardcore Gamers" are just duchebags who treat gaming as a blood sport. -Nuff said


Have you entertained the thought that this situation is solely Nintendo's fault? Throughout the last generation they failed to deliver a console that would be beefy enough to support proper core titles, hence Nintendo gamers were somewhat pushed into the margin of first party titles. You can't treat a company that releases hardware that's a generation behind seriously and gamers who use this hardware are not the target audience of 90% of the developers, so it's only natural that Nintendo gamers became the laughing stock for magazines.

The typical Nintendo gamer who hasn't got a proper gaming rig other than the Wii and his DS missed on titles like Fallout 3, Dragon Age, Battlefield(s), BioShock, Crisis... the list goes on. To be fair, throughout the last generation, Nintendo gamers missed on *most* of the good games that were released.

And no, we're not mixing core with hadcore:

Core - intended for a wide audience with no particular focus on a given console or on the PC.
Hardcore - intended for an audience of seasoned gamers, usually for mature audiences.


----------



## Fear Zoa (May 2, 2012)

Make a hd zelda with the art style from twilight princess, then ditch the waggle. Suddenly their long term fans wont hate them as much.

Because Nintendo uses the same characters all the time they have a interesting predicament, try to gain new fans by making more childish games, or cater to the 90's fans by making more mature games. A large portion of their fan base aged and they can't seem to find a way to deal with it.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> B) Third parties dont give Nintendo a chance which makes Nintendo console owners say "F*ck them".



Hahahaha this made my day. In fact *is* Nintendo. You'll se why:

*1. Nintendo "parents" policy, by not having sex-explicit, hardcore, adult games for mature audience*. Yes there are few games like COD, Madworld, etc. Hence the system aimed for children and/or families. Heck Mario Sunshine was great, retro and all that, but... mario galaxy?! Can't you be more gay/friendly mario? (I don't even hate gays or something) Where are those pseudo arcade franchises you developed for us Nintendo? Starfox64 15 years ago?

2. *Nintendo terrible architecture on their gaming consoles* (a.k.a 1980's way of doing hardware). Say ARM (devs need to code here) talking with PPC(devs need ALSO to code here) to share/optimize things with ANOTHER CPU(which relies on old technology, a.k.a 200% of work and research by external devs) and when code crashes or runs slower than other devices, they must redo, waste time, write from scratch... code just to support "Nintendo hardware..."??? Really?? I mean, must we get 1 game ported while other platforms have at least 3 or 4 of them??? And we must be grateful about that?? What the Hell..

That's why I love 3rd parties like Namco or Capcom, because even if they try to get as money as they can, they have done ports on a pseudo-impossible-way-to-port gaming console by not sacrificing gameplay, yet squeezing hardware to do miracles.
they've developed on other platforms with ease because of PC ports/RISC/C code... which runs terribly on Nintendo hardware

And focus the experience of gaming as it should (DLC and all that crap I don't care really)



LightyKD said:


> They either
> -Create a crappy version of their game not worthy of the specs of the Nintendo console at the time
> Need I say more?



So, because of Nintendo's ancient logic way of doing stuff, must all devs trying to port their games to Nintendo, do them from scratch?

I'm not agree, also sadly this degrades gameplay and cause to lose interest in 3rd party support (wasting money and time).


----------



## Yatashi Strife (May 2, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Nintendo has finally realized that families and 12 year olds aren't the gaming majority?


dont hold your breath yet. I know im not  im not even acknowledging this until i see something that isnt rated E. please make your consoles whorth it again nintendo! like the good old days


----------



## spotanjo3 (May 2, 2012)

A sex explicit game is not necessarily. Nintendo is very smart than most companies. They know that they are clean and friendly. I am proud of them. I hope that 3rd party can learn something from Nintendo because sex explicit game is ridiculous.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

RockmanForte said:


> A sex explicit game is not necessarily. Nintendo is very smart than most companies. They know that they are clean and friendly. I am proud of them. I hope that 3rd party can learn something from Nintendo because sex explicit game is ridiculous.


That's like praising kids books writers for not trying to create more elaborate stories or complimenting people who live in tents because buildings would ruin the landscape.

There are games for young audiences and games for mature audiences - Duke Nukem 3D would be lacking if I didn't get the opportunity to throw a few bucks at prostitutes saying "Shake'em baby".



Fear Zoa said:


> Make a hd zelda with the art style from twilight princess, then* ditch the waggle*. Suddenly their long term fans wont hate them as much.


It's not the idea that's wrong but the implementation. The Wii Remote was awesome but slightly unresponsive. I sincerely *enjoy* using it, it's one of my favourite controllers. Were it more responsive and with a wireless nunchuck, it would be right up there with the 360 controller and the Gamecube controller.



> Because Nintendo uses the same characters all the time they have a interesting predicament, try to gain new fans by making more childish games, or cater to the 90's fans by making more mature games. A large portion of their fan base aged and they can't seem to find a way to deal with it.


How's about, I don't know, making new IP's for those matured fans WHILE still releasing Mario (etc.) games to appease the young audience?


----------



## Fear Zoa (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> > Because Nintendo uses the same characters all the time they have a interesting predicament, try to gain new fans by making more childish games, or cater to the 90's fans by making more mature games. A large portion of their fan base aged and they can't seem to find a way to deal with it.
> 
> 
> How's about, I don't know, making new IP's for those matured fans WHILE still releasing Mario (etc.) games to appease the young audience?


Yea that would work but Nintendo never wants to make new IP's for some reason...
They should just give the older fans Zelda, I'm pretty sure older fans like Zelda way more then the younger fans do


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> Yea that would work but Nintendo never wants to make new IP's for some reason...
> They should just give the older fans Zelda, I'm pretty sure older fans like Zelda way more then the younger fans do


Nintendo generally likes to play safe with their software - they release games that they know will sell well. Their years of innovation in the software field are over, they've been over for a long time now.

I mean, they made Nintendogs. Cool, new IP, but essentially it's a Tama-clone.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > You must have forgotten that according to most of the gaming world, Nintendo gamers aren't real gamers and I say this with aggravation in my voice. Look at gaming websites and magazines and how they treat Nintendo and those of us who play their consoles. It's why I hate terms like "Core Games" and "Hardcore Gamers". Honestly, "Hardcore Gamers" are just duchebags who treat gaming as a blood sport. -Nuff said
> ...



Have you ever thought that maybe people who buy Nintendo consoles don't give a rats ass about playing PS360 style games? Not everyone treats gaming like a bloodsport in which every game must be rated M or it's no good at all. That's the damn problem with the industry. Instead of creating games for everyone, a certain segment of the gaming audience made their minds up, that they were going to be the sole deciders of what's is or is not "true" gaming. It's bullshit and people wonder why the industry can't mature like books and movies. This one sided mindset that all games must be "blood, guns, more blood and death everywhere" has got to go. It's OK. I repeat IT'S MUTHAF*CKING OK to just play something that makes you smile and giggle and does not include the red stuff. Seriously people, It's time for "gamers" to grow the hell up and stop acting like a bunch of teenagers who just watched their first R rated movie. Stop dissing all of the games made for females and young kids and the ones that gramps can play. Stop being so narrow minded and see that the more options there are, the better the industry gets, I think Nintendo had great success with the Wii. It's was just snot nose little FPS only pricks that tarnished the console.

As for Nintendo vs. Third Party, I stand by my earlier statement. Who said that Nintendo needed to use every damn new tech in existence? What makes Nintendo unique is the fact that they can take multiple different elements of past and present tech and make a unique experience. If Nintendo stops doing that, they cease to be Nintendo. You people honestly think that Next gen is going to be drastically different than the current games? Bullshit. We're at a stopping point. We're done! The graphics war is OVER.  Everything does not need to look overtly realistic. Just enjoy the damn game and stop fussing because pixels don't look like outside your window.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Have you ever thought that maybe people who buy Nintendo consoles don't give a rats ass about playing PS360 style games?


I have three issues with that statement.
1. What are those?
2. Why would they mind better specs for the same price?
3. Nintendo only recently started releasing inferior consoles.



> Not everyone treats gaming like a bloodsport in which every game must be rated M or it's no good at all.



Except not every PS3/360 game is like that, and you would probably know that if you weren't sheltered under the protective Nintendumbrella.



> That's the damn problem with the industry. Instead of creating games for everyone, a certain segment of the gaming audience made their minds up, that they were going to be the sole deciders of what's is or is not "true" gaming.


Nintendo makes games only for their fans, so by proxy they fall under the category of what you described as "those responsible for the downfall of the industry".



> It's bullshit and people wonder why the industry can't mature like books and movies. This one sided mindset that all games must be "blood, guns, more blood and death everywhere" has got to go. It's OK.



Why won't Nintendo mature and realize that you don't need to sprinkle stars and hearts over a game to make it good? I thought Metroid proved that repeatedly, why won't we get more of that, hmm? They're repetitive aswell.



> I repeat IT'S MUTHAF*CKING OK to just play something that makes you smile and giggle and does not include the red stuff.



But why all the time?



> Seriously people, It's time for "gamers" to grow the hell up and stop acting like a bunch of teenagers who just watched their first R rated movie. Stop dissing all of the games made for females and young kids and the ones that gramps can play.



90% of Nintendo's franchises then?



> Stop being so narrow minded and see that the more options there are, the better the industry gets,



Likewise.



> I think Nintendo had great success with the Wii. It's was just snot nose little FPS only pricks that tarnished the console.



No, the Wii's reputation was tarnished because it was underspec'd beyond human understanding.



> As for Nintendo vs. Third Party, I stand by my earlier statement. Who said that Nintendo needed to use every damn new tech in existence? What makes Nintendo unique is the fact that they can take multiple different of past and present tech and make a unique experience. If Nintendo stops doing that, they cease to be Nintendo.



Nintendo should suck it up and allow their customers to play whatever they want by providing sufficient hardware, like in the case of EVERY CONSOLE THEY EVER MADE other than the DS, DSi and the Wii.



> You people honestly think that Next gen is going to be drastically different than the current games? Bullshit. We're at a stopping point. We're done!



The end is nigh.



> The graphics war is OVER.



Not when we can still distinguish between real-time rendered CG and real life. Only when we reach that point will GPU's be "technologically perfect".



> Everything does not need to look overtly realistic. Just enjoy the damn game and stop fussing because pixels don't look like outside your window.



You were the one who brought graphics into the discussion. They're not the only thing influenced by low specs.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > B) Third parties dont give Nintendo a chance which makes Nintendo console owners say "F*ck them".
> ...


Parents policy? You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo hasn't refused "mature" games since the SNES days. If that was true, Snake Eater 3D, No More Heroes, Mad World, Geist, Resident Evil: Revelations and  Resident Evil 4 wouldn't be on their platforms.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > Have you ever thought that maybe people who buy Nintendo consoles don't give a rats ass about playing PS360 style games?
> ...



I love how people act as if Nintendo is still censoring stuff as if it was the 90's. Nintendo stop censoring stuff back in the N64 days. There aren't a plethora of M rated games because devs are too stupid to create original experiences. Funny part is, if they have the manpower to make a PS360 game then making a Game on the Wii should have been extremely easy. People say that the Wii lacked proper specs but the Wii was perfect for studios not trying to break the bank. There was NO excuse for the lack of proper third party support on the Wii and even with that said there was more third party support on the Wii than on GameCube. Hell, there was way more mature rated games on Wii compared to Cube. It's funny how people act as if the Wii was a total failure but the same damn people were not saying that a few years ago. If I remember correctly, wansn't the Wii that little white box that was kicking the asses of the PS360 almost five years in a row. Funny how people easily forget how awesome the Wii was and still is. Shameful how people act as if their manhood depended on which console they played. As if owning a PS360 makes them any more manly. As for people who say that All Nintendo has on their system is games for children. Let me count the ways,

Dead Space Extraction
Metroid Prime 3 and Other M
Dead Rising
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles
House of the Dead Overkill
The Conduit
The Conduit 2
Call of Duty, World at War, Modern Warfare Reflex, Black Ops, Modern Warfare 3
Goldeneye 007
The Last Story
Pandora's Tower
Xenoblade Saga
Zelda Twilight Princess and Skyward sword
Red Steel 1 & 2

...Need I say more. The next person that says that there's nothing but kiddy games on a Nintendo console, deserves a thousand deaths! That might sound harsh but I've been watching Gundam 00 lately and I'm sure you people understand my rage!


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> I love how people act as if Nintendo is still censoring stuff as if it was the 90's. Nintendo stop censoring stuff back in the N64 days. There aren't a plethora of M rated games because devs are too stupid to create original experiences. Funny part is, if they have the manpower to make a PS360 game then making a Game on the Wii should have been extremely easy. People say that the Wii lacked proper specs but the Wii was perfect for studios not trying to break the bank. There was NO excuse for the lack of proper third party support on the Wii and even with that said there was more third party support on the Wii than on GameCube. Hell, there was way more mature rated games on Wii compared to Cube. It's funny how people act as if the Wii was a total failure but the same damn people were not saying that a few years ago. If I remember correctly, wansn't the Wii that little white box that was kicking the asses of the PS360 almost five years in a row. Funny how people easily forget how awesome the Wii was and still is. Shameful how people act as if their manhood depended on which console they played. As if owning a PS360 makes them any more manly. As for people who say that All Nintendo has on their system is games for children. Let me count the ways,
> 
> ...Need I say more. The next person that says that there's nothing but kiddy games on a Nintendo console, deserves a thousand deaths! That might sound harsh but I've been watching Gundam 00 lately and I'm sure you people understand my rage!


I never said that they censor games, I said that they don't really have any IP's that would appeal to the M audience other than maybe Metroid Prime. Re-read what I wrote before you start assuming things.

The games you are not Nintendo's creations except for Zelda and Metroid and Zelda isn't exactly for adult audiences anyways so I don't know why you mentioned it - it's a rather tame title. A very good excuse for lack of third-party support was that the Wii didn't keep up with the times and wasn't able to support what the third party developers wanted to develop - it's simple as that. The Cube was at the top of the game when it was released, the Wii was a generation behind. It has nothing to do with "manlyness" but with available resources which were miniscule at best on the Wii, hence horrible downports like Dead Rising.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Dead Space Extraction *Flopped*
> Metroid Prime 3 and Other M *Other M is terrible*
> Dead Rising *Horrific port*
> Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition *Actually an awesome port, I'll give it credit there*
> ...



Honestly, most of those games are either A) inferior ports/inferior versions or B) crap.

Also, *STOP QUOTING LARGE AMOUNTS OF TEXT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING PEOPLE.*


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> *STOP QUOTING LARGE AMOUNTS OF TEXT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING PEOPLE.*


When there's a lot to comment on, there's a large quote goin' on.

I disagree with him on 90% of his post so if I want a complete response I have to go basically sentence by sentence and that creates a huge post - c'est la vie.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > *STOP QUOTING LARGE AMOUNTS OF TEXT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING PEOPLE.*
> ...



There's nothing wrong with making a long post that's a breakdown of another one, but quoting that incredibly long post afterwards is usually what takes up the most page space.

Just quote it, cut out the text and replace it with a *snip* or something, and continue talking.

That's my PSA for the day


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> There's nothing wrong with making a long post that's a breakdown of another one, but quoting that incredibly long post afterwards is usually what takes up the most page space.
> 
> Just quote it, cut out the text and replace it with a *snip* or something, and continue talking.
> 
> That's my PSA for the day


I see. I thought you had some beef againts my post, not the quote of it.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > Dead Space Extraction *Flopped*
> ...



As for whether people enjoyed these games or not, I was not trying to debate. I'm just sick of people acting as if Nintendo consoles don't have any games that are rated above "E-10+" I just wish Nintendo stays on their current path with the Wii U. I just don't want the Wii U to end up like another PS360. I'm a Nintendo fan for a reason. If I want to play a PS360 game, I have OnLive for that.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> As for whether people enjoyed these games or not, I was not trying to debate. I'm just sick of people acting as if Nintendo consoles don't have any games that are rated above "E-10+" I just wish Nintendo stays on their current path with the Wii U. I just don't want the Wii U to end up like another PS360. I'm a Nintendo fan for a reason. If I want to play a PS360 game, I have OnLive for that.


Stop bringing Nintendo games into this, we are not even talking about Nintendo SOFTWARE here but about their HARDWARE and its ineptness at _supporting third-party development during the last generation. It was not built with components that would actually facilitate third party software development as it did not provide developers with freedom they need to spread their wings_.

You can love Nintendo software all you want, but when developers saw the Wii, most of them just went "Pfff!".


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> As for whether people enjoyed these games or not, I was not trying to debate. I'm just sick of people acting as if Nintendo consoles don't have any games that are rated above "E-10+" I just wish Nintendo stays on their current path with the Wii U. I just don't want the Wii U to end up like another PS360. I'm a Nintendo fan for a reason. If I want to play a PS360 game, I have OnLive for that.



Nintendo is definitely not a "E10+" system, I would defend it there. I mean the most violent game I played this gen was probably MadWorld or No More Heroes.

And I do like OnLive but I don't find that it substitutes for a Xbox 360 or PS3. I mean I could go look at my Xbox 360 collection right now and 75% of the games there probably aren't on OnLive. I just don't see why anyone would adamantly say "No" to a Xbox 360 or PS3, there's games for everyone and they're just great consoles.


----------



## emigre (May 2, 2012)

I've just hugged my PS3 because it provides me with my core games, all thanks to this thread.


----------



## EZ-Megaman (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I never said that they censor games, I said that they don't really have any IP's that would appeal to the M audience other than maybe Metroid Prime. Re-read what I wrote before you start assuming things.


I always thought of Sin and Punishment as Nintendo's most mature game. Metroid would probably rank in second place, though.
Anyway, i'm interested in what Nintendo has to offer.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

emigre said:


> I've just hugged my PS3 because it provides me with my core games, all thanks to this thread.



*giggle* That was just awesome! Thanks for the laugh!


----------



## emigre (May 2, 2012)

EZ-Megaman said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > I never said that they censor games, I said that they don't really have any IP's that would appeal to the M audience other than maybe Metroid Prime. Re-read what I wrote before you start assuming things.
> ...



Depends on your definition of maturity. I'd say Nier is one of the more mature games I've played to its themes and characters.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

EZ-Megaman said:


> I always thought of Sin and Punishment as Nintendo's most mature game. Metroid would probably rank in second place, though.
> Anyway, i'm interested in what Nintendo has to offer.



Sin and Punishment is made by Treasure though. Also the story behind Sin and Punishment makes no fucking sense.

Metroid is probably considered their most "mature" game but it doesn't fetch over a T rating. If you're talking about themes and characters then it definitely is, Other M excluded and Prime emphasized. It still doesn't hold a candle to Half Life 2 in terms of characterizing a silent character but it does an excellent job.


----------



## DiscostewSM (May 2, 2012)

IMO, the reason the Wii lacks 3rd party is simply because of the other consoles offering much more wiggle room with their development. The Wii is underpowered, and many modern ideas can't be done without some extra push. Even if the PS3 and XBox360 offered more than what was needed, it is better to have extra resources left over than to not have enough resources to finish a project.

Now, with this coming generation, have the requirements for game ideas increased so much that 3rd-party developers would dismiss the Wii U in favor of the next Sony and Microsoft consoles? IMHO, I don't think so, at least not to the degree as have been shown with the Wii. The Wii was more of a test to see how well they can sell a system that took a different approach to gaming. Idea instead of power. It worked, but the lack of power is what is leading it to it's death. We still don't have an idea of the current capabilities of the Wii U, as the system itself has been going through multiple changes since last E3. However, the fact that they are making changes as requested by 3rd-party developers is enough for me to think that it will have the power to drive what 3rd-party developers require.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

soulx said:


> Parents policy? You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo hasn't refused "mature" games since the SNES days. If that was true, Snake Eater 3D, No More Heroes, Mad World, Geist, Resident Evil: Revelations and  Resident Evil 4 wouldn't be on their platforms.



_Yeah that's  A LOT OF MATURE /3RD PARTY GAMES. Unlike on their PS3/XBOX counter parts. _Even Dreamcast, a console dead in late's 2001 had more 3rd party support than these _great titles_ you've mentioned

btw you didn't quote the whole example so i'll leave it here:



> *1. Nintendo "parents" policy, by not having sex-explicit, hardcore, adult games for mature audience*. Yes there are few games like COD, Madworld, etc. Hence the system aimed for children and/or families. Heck Mario Sunshine was great, retro and all that, but... mario galaxy?! Can't you be more gay/friendly mario? (I don't even hate gays or something) Where are those pseudo arcade franchises you developed for us Nintendo? Starfox64 15 years ago?


----------



## Eerpow (May 2, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> IMO, the reason the Wii lacks 3rd party is simply because of the other consoles offering much more wiggle room with their development. The Wii is underpowered, and many modern ideas can't be done without some extra push. Even if the PS3 and XBox360 offered more than what was needed, it is better to have extra resources left over than to not have enough resources to finish a project.
> 
> Now, with this coming generation, have the requirements for game ideas increased so much that 3rd-party developers would dismiss the Wii U in favor of the next Sony and Microsoft consoles? IMHO, I don't think so, at least not to the degree as have been shown with the Wii. The Wii was more of a test to see how well they can sell a system that took a different approach to gaming. Idea instead of power. It worked, but the lack of power is what is leading it to it's death. We still don't have an idea of the current capabilities of the Wii U, as the system itself has been going through multiple changes since last E3. However, the fact that they are making changes as requested by 3rd-party developers is enough for me to think that it will have the power to drive what 3rd-party developers require.


Another thing is cross-platform titles, from my understanding is that in order to port to the Wii you had to rework the assets, the engine etc... in order to get it running, it's time consuming and not really worth it.
But if the Wii had comparable specs developers would have no reason not to do multi platforms releases for it, with better specs they could have effortlessly made multi platform ports and always make a winning no matter on which platform it sold the most on.



Coto said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Parents policy? You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo hasn't refused "mature" games since the SNES days. If that was true, Snake Eater 3D, No More Heroes, Mad World, Geist, Resident Evil: Revelations and  Resident Evil 4 wouldn't be on their platforms.
> ...


But unlike what you're saying it has nothing to do with the "Nintendo censoring" crap you're trying to get across.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> But unlike what you're saying it has nothing to do with the "Nintendo censoring" crap you're trying to get across.



Sorry mr crap:

So this is why I had to re-quote myself:
*Gimme more hardcore games, NINTENDO** as you're keeping away 3rd parties with your policy of family/kids/grannies console.*
*This is the crap i'm talking about-*



> *1. Nintendo "parents" policy, by not having sex-explicit, hardcore, adult games for mature audience*. Yes there are few games like COD, Madworld, etc. Hence the system aimed for children and/or families. Heck Mario Sunshine was great, retro and all that, but... mario galaxy?! Can't you be more gay/friendly mario? (I don't even hate gays or something) Where are those pseudo arcade franchises you developed for us Nintendo? Starfox64 15 years ago?



2nd time quote


----------



## Eerpow (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> Sorry mr crap:
> 
> So this is why I had to re-quote myself:
> *Gimme more hardcore games, NINTENDO** as you're keeping away 3rd parties with your policy of family/kids/grannies console.*



The thing is that they tried to strike a balance and failed due to lower than expected specs.
Nintendo's policy was a platform for everybody, missing their target doesn't mean that developers wouldn't have any interest in publishing titles on their system if only it was capable.
Nintendo missed their target by dumbing down Mario Kart, Smash Bros, not releasing new IP's and other games for other established loved franchises like F-Zero. But Nintendo taking a break from usual businesses was not what made third party developers stay away from the system.

BTW the Mario Galaxy games are better than Sunshine in my opinion. And to be objective, the Galaxy games were more "mature" titles (hate that term) than Sunshine. Things like he music and overall design had a more serious approach.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > How do people do it? Oh yes, like this.
> ...



How do you know what the Wii U is getting or what is not getting?

do you know what a NDA is?




Guild McCommunist said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > The Last Story *Never played it*
> ...


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry mr crap:
> ...



The problem is what you see now:

1. Nintendo can't throw us a library with their starring mascots *alone* anymore, I wouldn't stand that. If they were to repeat that mistake, customers would be pissed off. They need the 3rd party support(we want to enjoy one of Nintendo consoles without thinking we'd need a - PC/ XBOX/360,insert the gaming experience you want here- if we were to enjoy a good gaming library. Otherwise, why would we want to _re-pay /re-play the same ol' shite_? Wii teached us that.

Of course I love my wii, but i'm older and I frankly can't fulfill my gaming preferences with the current gaming console Nintendo offered me... and what they've brought up these last years.
I enjoy much more by playing Dreamcast/PSP, heck, even N64.



Eerpow said:


> BTW the Mario Galaxy games are better than Sunshine in my opinion. And to be objective, the Galaxy games were more "mature" titles (hate that term) than Sunshine. Things like he music and overall design had a more serious approach.



I kinda stopped reading there.


----------



## Eerpow (May 2, 2012)

I think many, if not most here agrees with me when it comes to Galaxy.

I don't see what you're arguing about since all I'm saying is that they missed their target thanks to weaker hardware.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> BTW the Mario Galaxy games are better than Sunshine in my opinion. And to be objective, the Galaxy games were more "mature" titles (hate that term) than Sunshine. Things like he music and overall design had a more serious approach.









[yt]EO_R4BC1DXk[/yt]

Are we talking about the same game here? I'm not sure...




NeoGohan said:


> *facepalm*


I see three games that were not made by Nintendo used as an argument to support Nintendo, how is that facepalm material? Each of those could've just as well been released on other systems, there's nothing inheritently "Wii" about them at all.

When Wii users were busy with'em, the rest of the world had _Skyrim_, how's that for an argument againts the Wii? (By the way, I'm a Wii user myself, so keep that in mind before you start hatin').

There are numerous games that are more "definite" Wii experiences than those three, even if they're good.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (May 2, 2012)

Just wanted to remind people that the highest rated game of all time (Zelda 64) is rated E.  I certainly have nothing against M games (mortal kombat is one of my favorite series) but I do hate how somehow this non-m equals not worth peoples time mentality is there. That's just idiotic.

Should there be a wide variety of different games? Yes. Should there way too many of any one type of game? No. That's the point Iwata was trying to make. None of this hardcore gamer bs. Hardcore isn't determined by what you play but how you play it. Those people in documentries like a fistful of quarters or the tetris one? That's hardcore.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > *facepalm*
> ...



He wasn't talking about games made by Nintendo.
he was talking about games available on Wii....

Anyway Xenoblade was developed by Monolith Soft (Nintendo 2nd party).



Foxi4 said:


> When Wii users were busy with'em, the rest of the world had _Skyrim_, how's that for an argument againts the Wii? (By the way, I'm a Wii user myself, so keep that in mind before you start hatin').



.............
What is this supposed to mean?
when Wii users were enjoying those awesome games the rest of the world had another awesome game?





Foxi4 said:


> There are numerous games that are more "definite" Wii experiences than those three, even if they're good.



i don't even know what you are replying to.

he said a game he played for an hour was crap, i replied with a facepalm.  
who is talking about "definite" Wii experiences?


----------



## Eerpow (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Eerpow said:
> 
> 
> > BTW the Mario Galaxy games are better than Sunshine in my opinion. And to be objective, the Galaxy games were more "mature" titles (hate that term) than Sunshine. Things like he music and overall design had a more serious approach.
> ...


Seriously Foxi4, you took a 2007 non orchestrated trailer WTF...

I'm not personally saying either is "mature".
But when comparing an island like vacation with bad voice acting and worse story (even with the little there is) I can easily see Galaxy prevailing when it comes to having a more serious approach.

It's a fact that the galaxy games had a more serious tone to them than Sunshine. The high production value for stuff like the music should more than prove my point regardless if you enjoyed the exploration styled Mario games more or not.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

*@Neo*

He simply didn't like the game, that's no reason to facepalm. I enjoyed Xenoblade so-far but I can't say that I'm deeply in love with it. There's a certain gradation of "awesome" involved when you compare games and Elder Scrolls just happens to be higher-tier for a great majority of gamers.

Nintendo fans didn't get the chance to try Skyrim, nor could they try many other good games simply because Nintendo released a low-cost console, which is a no-no.

With the WiiU, they're catching up with current generation gaming and that's a _good thing_ but we can't simply say that the Wii was _"good"_ when it really wasn't - there's only a handful of good games for it and most of them would "work" on different consoles anyways - the Wii was the s*it-end of the last generation with the WiiMote as its redeeming quality.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> He wasn't talking about games made by Nintendo.
> he was talking about games available on Wii....
> 
> Anyway Xenoblade was developed by Monolith Soft (Nintendo 2nd party).



I wasn't using them as an argument as to "inferior ports" or "crap", I was stating I haven't played them and thus don't factor into my decision. Except Xenoblade, it was really bland.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Parents policy? You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo hasn't refused "mature" games since the SNES days. If that was true, Snake Eater 3D, No More Heroes, Mad World, Geist, Resident Evil: Revelations and  Resident Evil 4 wouldn't be on their platforms.
> ...


Ever thought that was because there wasn't major third-party support instead of a ridiculous "parents" policy?


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> *@[member='Neo']*
> 
> *He simply didn't like the game, that's no reason to facepalm*. I enjoyed Xenoblade so-far but I can't say that I'm deeply in love with it. There's a certain gradation of "awesome" involved when you compare games and Elder Scrolls just happens to be higher-tier for a great majority of gamers.



yep there is, you don't call crap something only because you don't like it.
i didn't like Skyrim at all, but i know what a complete experience it is and how many people enjoy it.




Foxi4 said:


> With the WiiU, *they're catching up with current generation gaming *and that's a _good thing_ but we can't simply say that the Wii was _"good"_ when it really wasn't - there's only a handful of good games for it and most of them would "work" on different consoles anyways - the Wii was the s*it-end of the last generation with the WiiMote as its redeeming quality.



they are not catching up. they are going further.
when you know the system will have AT LEAST 1.5GB of ram(it's 2GB now i think) and the OS will need 512MB, you know they are going further than just "catching up with current gen".


----------



## DiscostewSM (May 2, 2012)

Funny how we got from "core" games to "mature" games.


----------



## heartgold (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> *Nintendo fans didn't get the chance to try Skyrim*, nor could they try many other good games simply because Nintendo released a low-cost console, which is a no-no.



Why do you presume that Nintendo fans only ever own Nintendo consoles? It's an interesting thought, I'd like to hear more upon your intake and where you get these ideas.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > *@[member='Neo']*
> ...



And I didn't call them crap, it seems pretty obvious that I wouldn't factor games I haven't played into a "crap" or "not crap" decision. I was more so talking about everything else on the list.




heartgold said:


> Why do you presume that Nintendo fans only ever own Nintendo consoles? It's an interesting thought, I'd like to hear more upon your intake and where you get these ideas.



There are so many people here who own only a Wii/DS/3DS and not a Xbox 360, PS3, or good PC.

Do you own a PS3 or Xbox 360 or gaming PC by any chance?


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

soulx said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...



And did you know the lack of 3rd party support was because of their idiotic "parents" policy, and also, low cheap, hard to port coding, hardware? Why do you think devs prefer porting games to XBOX/PS3 now? Because it's easier to do? Nintendo had even troubles bringing We Dare to USA


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> And did you know the lack of 3rd party support was because of their idiotic "parents" policy, and also, low cheap, hard to port coding, hardware? Why do you think devs prefer porting games to XBOX/PS3 now? Because it's easier to do? Nintendo had even troubles bringing We Dare to USA



In all honesty there's like 4 major console markets and 3 of them can be crossported rather easily, there's just one sore thumb out there that doesn't play well with others.

EDIT: Also it doesn't help that third party devs see the only things selling on Nintendo platforms are either A) Nintendo games or B) casual games.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> And did you know the lack of 3rd party support was because of their idiotic "parents" policy, and also, low cheap, hard to port coding, hardware? Why do you think devs prefer porting games to XBOX/PS3 now? Because it's easier to do? Nintendo had even troubles bringing We Dare to USA


No, that wasn't it. There is *no* parents policy and I don't know where you get this antiquated hardware idea from.


----------



## heartgold (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> There are so many people here who own only a Wii/DS/3DS and not a Xbox 360, PS3, or good PC.
> 
> Do you own a PS3 or Xbox 360 or gaming PC by any chance?



Why yes, I have a decent PC and one of those HD consoles is at home which is owned by one of my siblings.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

soulx said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > And did you know the lack of 3rd party support was because of their idiotic "parents" policy, and also, low cheap, hard to port coding, hardware? Why do you think devs prefer porting games to XBOX/PS3 now? Because it's easier to do? Nintendo had even troubles bringing We Dare to USA
> ...



O RLY Nintendo has not any parental limits when it comes down to their consoles/games?? You must be blind as ... hahaha

If you were to know how to code a little, you'd understand last Nintendo consoles had been terribly underpowered, and Nintendo, because of their "antiquated" way of business wouldn't even lend their SDKs to 3rd parties, thus, leaving the devs figuring how to rewrite /port games from a PC/XBOX arquitecture to an ol' apple G3/G4. This means wasting time and money, thus, ... hey 3DS games announced at launch day were cancelled do you remember? Well, that's a good example.


----------



## Eerpow (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Coto said:
> ...


It's not a Nintendo policy the We Dare thing was a rating related issue, you know it got released in Europe with Nintendo's approval.
Nintendo has no problems with mature games for their system, the hardware is the only factor in this problem.
Ever seen games like Madworld or even worse, Manhunt?
As long as these titles receive appropriate ratings Nintendo has no problem with them.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Coto said:
> ...



it looks like you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> they are not catching up. they are going further.
> when you know the system will have AT LEAST 1.5GB of ram(it's 2GB now i think) and the OS will need 512MB, you know they are going further than just "catching up with current gen".


Too little too late considering that their competitors will soon release superior hardware. Nintendo IS catching up - you're comparing the WiiU to 6-year old hardware.


----------



## LightyKD (May 2, 2012)

I don't see where making a low cost gaming device is a bad thing. It's called catering to a DIFFERENT market. Hell, the PS2 was still around for most of the current gen. Not everybody has the money to feed into Iwata's piggy bank. I love how so many people act as if it's easy for people to buy a 3DS, a Vita, Wii U or some other high end gaming device. We're still in a recession the last time I checked. I think these older systems need to stick around so that there's something for everyone. Honestly, if Nintendo wanted to keep the current Wii alive, all they would have to do is offer up some help to indie and low end devs in regards to getting their games published. I'm just going to be frank. No network enabled console should ever be 100% dead. Not when the price of development for the platform continues to cheapen and there are always news ways to keep the device active via a network.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > *Nintendo fans didn't get the chance to try Skyrim*, nor could they try many other good games simply because Nintendo released a low-cost console, which is a no-no.
> ...


I assume that Nintendo fans own Nintendo consoles and unfortunatelly if they want to play good multiplatform titles, they're somewhat forced to buy the competition's consoles aswell or invest in a gaming rig. This is not a problem for Sony or Microsoft fans and I would very much like it to disappear with the emergence of the WiiU.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> it looks like you don't know what you are talking about.



Sorry, you weren't present at the time of this debate. Ouch, please press F5 and start looking from page 6 or 7. =)


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> I don't see where making a low cost gaming device is a bad thing. It's called catering to a DIFFERENT market. Hell, the PS2 was still around for most of the current gen. Not everybody has the money to feed into Iwata's piggy bank. I love how so many people act as if it's easy for people to buy a 3DS, a Vita, Wii U or some other high end gaming device. We're still in a recession the last time I checked. I think these older systems need to stick around so that there's something for everyone. Honestly, if Nintendo wanted to keep the current Wii alive, all they would have to do is offer up some help to indie and low end devs in regards to getting their games published. I'm just going to be frank. No network enabled console should ever be 100% dead. Not when the price of development for the platform continues to cheapen and there are always news ways to keep the device active via a network.


If a developer really wanted to make a low-end game, they could just as well make it for the PS2 which was more popular. There's a higher chance a gamer would own a PS2 than a Wii, so why  bother? The strong point of the Wii were the controllers, the weak point was just about everything else.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> *1. Nintendo "parents" policy, by not having sex-explicit, hardcore, adult games for mature audience*. Yes there are few games like COD, Madworld, etc. Hence the system aimed for children and/or families. Heck Mario Sunshine was great, retro and all that, but... mario galaxy?! Can't you be more gay/friendly mario? (I don't even hate gays or something) Where are those pseudo arcade franchises you developed for us Nintendo? Starfox64 15 years ago?



Oh god I just realized you though Super Mario Sunshine was a better game than Super Mario Galaxy. How is Sunshine "retro" and "arcadey" and Galaxy is not?

EDIT: For the record Sunshine was a mediocre game with some really dumb mechanics.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > they are not catching up. they are going further.
> ...



Can you tell me what makes you think that the "poor" sony who lost billions this gen, will release a "superior" (and expensive) hardware next gen?
People are always generalizing things.

Nintendo makes a low-powered console one gen = NINTENDO MAKES WEAK HARDWARE
Sony makes the most powerful console ONE gen = Sony will always release powerful hardware

what would be superior hardware for you (next gen)?
a system with 4GB of ram? 8GB of ram?

if that's it then i'm sorry.  you are not getting that anytime soon.




Coto said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > it looks like you don't know what you are talking about.
> ...



i read the whole thing.
and i think...
that..

you don't know what you are talking about


----------



## emigre (May 2, 2012)

@Foxi4 post that picture of your Nintendo consoles to back up your point.


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > *1. Nintendo "parents" policy, by not having sex-explicit, hardcore, adult games for mature audience*. Yes there are few games like COD, Madworld, etc. Hence the system aimed for children and/or families. Heck Mario Sunshine was great, retro and all that, but... mario galaxy?! Can't you be more gay/friendly mario? (I don't even hate gays or something) Where are those pseudo arcade franchises you developed for us Nintendo? Starfox64 15 years ago?
> ...



Sunshine has better challenges, music, retro stages, even the 8 coin races you'd do in those stages (much like Mario world or Yoshi island 8 coins), also a lot of stuff referring to ol' school mario franchise(ie: when fake mario steals your waterpump and you gotta do the stage the old way) that's a good gift to meh .

Galaxy is just ... ewww with mario jumping screaming and using his tornet in his super bee suit with their bee friends and... those gestures omg, I swear I don't hate gay people, but it's too much for me, mainly because SMG goes straight to kids

edit: if you say sunshine was a mediocre game, i'd rather finish SMG I & II %100 than any of The Ratchet and Clank series, they suck.



NeoGohan said:


> i read the whole thing.
> and i think...
> that..
> 
> you don't know what you are talking about



Oh, please ignore me. I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> Can you tell me what makes you think that the "poor" sony who lost billions this gen, will release a "superior" (and expensive) hardware next gen?
> People are always generalizing things.



Because they have had a rather profitable video game sector and their losses mainly came from TVs and not from video games? So reasonably Sony would put more money into the thing that makes them money.




Coto said:


> Sunshine has better challenges, music, retro stages, even the 8 coin races you'd do in those stages (much like Mario world or Yoshi island 8 coins), also a lot of stuff referring to ol' school mario franchise(ie: when fake mario steals your waterpump and you gotta do the stage ol' school) that's a good gift to meh .
> 
> Galaxy is just ... ewww with mario jumping screaming and using his tornet in his super bee suit with their bee friends and... those gestures omg, I swear I don't hate gay people, but it's too much for me, mainly because SMG goes straight to kids



So basically your argument is that Sunshine is "retro" and Galaxy is gay?

Also I think it's hilarious that Sunshine had "better music" when Galaxy had a fucking orchestra and admittedly some epic music. Plus the stages were well designed, the graphics were better, and the FLUDD is an awful mechanic.

And y'know, saying "I don't hate gay people" and then giving them broad and offensive stereotypes doesn't mean you're not being bigoted. If I were you I'd drop the whole "Galaxy is gay" point because you're digging your whole really deep at the moment.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Coto said:


> *1. Nintendo "parents" policy, by not having sex-explicit, hardcore, adult games for mature audience*. Yes there are few games like COD, Madworld, etc. Hence the system aimed for children and/or families. Heck Mario Sunshine was great, retro and all that, but... mario galaxy?! Can't you be more gay/friendly mario? (I don't even hate gays or something) Where are those pseudo arcade franchises you developed for us Nintendo? Starfox64 15 years ago?








i hope nintendo releases that "Mario Bros. porn bloody adventures" game soon so they can fullfil your dreams




Coto said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > i read the whole thing.
> ...



the more you post, the more ignorant you look.




Guild McCommunist said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > Can you tell me what makes you think that the "poor" sony who lost billions this gen, will release a "superior" (and expensive) hardware next gen?
> ...



Are you talking about that videogame division that started being profitable like 4 years after the PS3 released?

So reasonably Sony would put more effort on being profitable on day one.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> Can you tell me what makes you think that the "poor" sony who lost billions this gen, will release a "superior" (and expensive) hardware next gen?
> People are always generalizing things.
> 
> Nintendo makes a low-powered console one gen = NINTENDO MAKES WEAK HARDWARE
> ...


...you seriously don't know me or my approach towards consoles, do you?

Sony was always the comany which released the best design, not necessarily the strongest hardware. The original Playstation mopped the floor with its competitors due to affordability combined with relatively good specs and great third-party support, the PS2 was even better in all those areas despite being the weakest of its generation, the PS3, despite its initial problems (akin to those of the PS2, actually - high price tag being the most major one) was the culmination of their efforts. It is only natural to expect progress from them as they were always on-top of their game.

Microsoft went all-out with the XBox and with the 360, their finances are just fine, it's hard NOT to expect the NextBox to be powerful.

Nintendo on the otherhand... I think that they stopped caring for a while after the Gamecube, tried something different, sold a lot of units and now that they have the financial background, they're getting back in the game. The Gamecube was a fiasco, the N64 was... meh. The Gameboy line is what really kept them afloat through this time.

Read up on some console history before you write something silly again.


----------



## heartgold (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



Being loyal to one company is just foolishness, yes you may have a favourite but sticking to one is just a loss at the end.

Anyway I don't see Microsoft or Sony customers switching to Nintendo platforms anytime soon. You see over in the UK, X-box seems to be the popular choice around here so if you wanna play COD or Fifa with your friends you have to get that system to play with your friends. Now that X-box has stabilised itself as the standard must have console, it's hard to see people jumping out for the Wii-U, practically to an average gamer it will just seem like a HD console with a stupid unnecessary screen on a controller.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > Can you tell me what makes you think that the "poor" sony who lost billions this gen, will release a "superior" (and expensive) hardware next gen?
> ...



didn't you just said that Nintendo was catching up because there would be SUPERIOR CONSOLES after they released their console?

we were talking about power/financial situation and you answer with that.

thanks for showing that i was right.

also, we were talking about next gen and you talk about old generation consoles. MAKES PERFECT SENSE


----------



## Coto (May 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Also I think it's hilarious that Sunshine had "better music" when Galaxy had a fucking orchestra and admittedly some epic music. Plus the stages were well designed, the graphics were better, and the FLUDD is an awful mechanic.


Oh please, that's your opinion.

Here's mine:

If you say sunshine was a mediocre game, i'd rather finish SMG I & II %100 than any of The Ratchet and Clank series, they suck.



Guild McCommunist said:


> So basically your argument is that Sunshine is "retro" and Galaxy is gay?


No, my basis is: Sunshine has more of the old mario series than Galaxy, and plus, Mario's too sissy, or at least how Nintendo introduced it to series from the beginning.



Guild McCommunist said:


> And y'know, saying "I don't hate gay people" and then giving them broad and offensive stereotypes doesn't mean you're not being bigoted. If I were you I'd drop the whole "Galaxy is gay" point because you're digging your whole really deep at the moment.



I don't how how you could feel about that, but it was just a thought. If you felt bad about that, sorry (?)



NeoGohan said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, please ignore me. I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings
> ...



Sorry, I hope you can overcome this someday c:


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> didn't you just said that Nintendo was catching up because there would be SUPERIOR CONSOLES after they released their console?
> 
> we were talking about power/financial situation and you answer with that.
> 
> ...


You didn't prove me wrong, you dillwit. That's an entirely unrelated point. The first console in the generation you are refering to was the Dreamcast, and guess what? It turned out to be the weakest.

Besides, better design is also means of superiority I'm afraid.

The "first" console will always be either flawed due to being rushed or underspeced since the competition will know exactly what to do to top it.

I refuse to carry on talking with you before you read some articles on video game history, you seem to be one of those OMGNINTENDOWHOASOGOOD people that I refuse to associate with.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > didn't you just said that Nintendo was catching up because there would be SUPERIOR CONSOLES after they released their console?
> ...




*The first console in the generation you are refering to was the Xbox 360, and guess what? It turned out to be the weakest.*

are you really using that argument?





Foxi4 said:


> *I refuse to carry on talking with you before you read some articles of video game history*, you seem to be one of those OMGNINTENDOWHOASOGOOD people that I refuse to associate with.


lol, seems like an stupid excuse to not answer. (i know about video game history, no need for that)

i'm not one of those "people" at all, no need to make assumptions.
i just go where the games i like are.
i've had consoles from both Sony and Nintendo and i've had a lot of fun on all of them 


so .. how much ram are you expecting?


----------



## Gahars (May 3, 2012)

@[member='Coto']

Pro-tip: It's not a matter of making people "feel bad." If you have to call something (or someone) "gay" to convey that it's bad, you have failed at arguing.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 3, 2012)

Coto said:


> O RLY Nintendo has not any parental limits when it comes down to their consoles/games?? You must be blind as ... hahaha
> 
> If you were to know how to code a little, you'd understand last Nintendo consoles had been terribly underpowered, and Nintendo, because of their "antiquated" way of business wouldn't even lend their SDKs to 3rd parties, thus, leaving the devs figuring how to rewrite /port games from a PC/XBOX arquitecture to an ol' apple G3/G4. This means wasting time and money, thus, ... hey 3DS games announced at launch day were cancelled do you remember? Well, that's a good example.


No, there aren't any parental limits. I don't know why you keep stating that without any proof.

Recent Nintendo consoles have obviously been underpowered. I'm not arguing that. How do you know that Nintendo hasn't given SDKs to third-parties because this just seems like a bunch of conjecture to me. And the cancelled 3DS games don't mean anything. For one, some of the games haven't even reached the design stage so that doesn't speak of any development problems.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 3, 2012)

Coto said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Coto said:
> ...



Saints Row = THQ has financial problems, they don't even know if they will be able to publish games that are almost complete.
Assassin's Creed = this
DJ Hero = Activision killed the "hero" series.

any other game that was announced to  be at launch WINDOW and then got cancelled?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 3, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> *The first console in the generation you are refering to was the Xbox 360, and guess what? It turned out to be the weakest.*
> 
> are you really using that argument?



The Wii was not meant to compete with the 360 or the PS3, it was made to appeal to an entirely new market of gamers that wanted to try something different as well as their old fans and was relatively successful at it, however if fell flat when it came to resources, horsepower and third-party support and despite the initial massive sales it was quickly relegated to the laughing stock position it is in right now.



> lol, seems like an stupid excuse to not answer. (i know about video game history, no need for that)
> 
> so .. how much ram are you expecting?
> 
> ...


I'm expecting a miniscule amount of RAM more than the WiiU will have as it's not really all that important - the significant differences will come in CPU/GPU architectures and their relations.

Sony will more than likely show once more that their custom-tailored chips can reign supreme while Microsoft will play it relatively safetly instead opting for a more open-ended development environment.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 3, 2012)

Coto said:


> If you say sunshine was a mediocre game, i'd rather finish SMG I & II %100 than any of The Ratchet and Clank series, they suck.



Y'know, taking "jabs" at me only works if I care. I've played like only one Ratchet and Clank game. I thought it was great but I'm not a series diehard by any means.



> No, my basis is: Sunshine has more of the old mario series than Galaxy, and plus, Mario's too sissy, or at least how Nintendo introduced it to series from the beginning.



Why do you want more of the "old" Mario series? Games should evolve and I don't see how it has any more "retroness" then Super Mario Galaxy. Hell, Galaxy 2 had like dedicated "retro" levels.



> I don't how how you could feel about that, but it was just a thought. If you felt bad about that, sorry (?)



I just felt it was rather silly to keep saying he's "gay" then compare the term to being a "sissy" or other negative comments. I'm not gay by any means but your continual use of it in a negative manner and then saying "I don't hate gay people" is a giant contradiction. That's like me saying "I don't hate black people, I just wish they could swim."


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 3, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > *The first console in the generation you are refering to was the Xbox 360, and guess what? It turned out to be the weakest.*
> ...


I thought I should bring up that even with all the issues the Wii had, it still sold the most out of this gen's consoles to date and is likely to remain that way until The End. It was still mighty successful for Nintendo.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 3, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > *The first console in the generation you are refering to was the Xbox 360, and guess what? It turned out to be the weakest.*
> ...



I know that about the Wii.
but when you put Dreamcast as an example one would thing that you are trying to say that the first system will be *considerably* weaker, and that's not going to happen again.
Xbox 360 was powerful enough and had successul sales its first years and guess what, most developers use it as their lead platform when it comes to multiplatform games.

The Wii thing won't happen ever again, it was just a bunch of stupid decisions made by nintendo (old architecture, big developers not able to port their newest engines, not able to use modern shaders, etc etc)

and that's not going to happen again because even if the Wii U is weaker, it has a modern architecture capable of all these that the wii wasn't.

According to most rumours, Sony will be closer to Nintendo than to Microsoft (microsoft will be the one going for the most powerful console).

and even if both (sony/microsoft) had consoles with more power, it won't mean much because now developers can bring games to Wii U without needing to remake an engine exclusively for the "weakest" console.


----------



## Coto (May 3, 2012)

Gahars said:


> @[member='Coto']
> 
> Pro-tip: It's not a matter of making people "feel bad." If you have to call something (or someone) "gay" to convey that it's bad, you have failed at arguing.



I didn't know i'd attract that much attention by saying I disliked SMG because the character became too... ugh, whatever. I have gay friends so it's not a problem to me to apologize if necessary. I didn't want to mark gay as a bad word either. ; ) So let the debate continue, and word taken.




soulx said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > O RLY Nintendo has not any parental limits when it comes down to their consoles/games?? You must be blind as ... hahaha
> ...



Well I wasn't saying the SDK stuff about Wii precisely, but GC and N64 era Nintendo's way-of-thinking, which broke some relationships with some 3rd parties. The announced 3DS titles were astonishingly nice, and if 3rd party devs were cancelling their projects because of -conjeture- weak hardware, or either doing extra work of porting code because of Nintendo designs (or lack of SDKs in that time, who knows, they must have had their reasons) isn't nice.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 3, 2012)

soulx said:


> I thought I should bring up that even with all the issues the Wii had, it still sold the most out of this gen's consoles to date and is likely to remain that way until The End. It was still mighty successful for Nintendo.


The sales are indeed quite huge, but look at the contributing factors - family-friendly, thus a good gift for children. Low price, thus easy to obtain. Easy to hack, thus quite appealing for anyone interested in homebrew or in piracy.

The sales of the 360 and the PS3 are relatively similar as they're priced similarily and offer a similar experience. The Wii was a cheap system with something different to offer, but the Wii bubble has perished - the leading system on the charts as far as home consoles are concerned is now the PS3, the Wii craze is long gone.


----------



## heartgold (May 3, 2012)

soulx said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > NeoGohan said:
> ...


I don't think anyone can call Wii a disappoint from the sales perceptive, it even exceeded Nintendo's expectations.

The real question is will the Wii-U follow Wii's footsteps or will it end up just like the GC...


----------



## Foxi4 (May 3, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> I know that about the Wii.
> but when you put Dreamcast as an example one would thing that you are trying to say that the first system will be *considerably* weaker, and that's not going to happen again.
> Xbox 360 was powerful enough and had successul sales its first years and guess what, most developers use it as their lead platform when it comes to multiplatform games.
> 
> ...


It was never my point to diminish the position of the WiiU - all I said was that the Wii was far too weak and that the WiiU will be the weakest this generation but the controller is its huge selling point.

If multimedia functions will be up-to-par and it will feature a BluRay drive despite initial data, it will sell like hotcakes because it's different while still interesting for the core gamer.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 3, 2012)

Coto said:


> Well I wasn't saying the SDK stuff about Wii precisely, but GC and N64 era Nintendo's way-of-thinking, which broke some relationships with some 3rd parties. T*he announced 3DS titles were astonishingly nice, and if 3rd party devs were cancelling their projects because of -conjeture- weak hardware, or either doing extra work of porting code because of Nintendo designs (or lack of SDKs in that time, who knows, they must have had their reasons) isn't nice.*




hello




NeoGohan said:


> Saints Row = THQ has financial problems, they don't even know if they will be able to publish games that are almost complete.
> Assassin's Creed = this
> DJ Hero = Activision killed the "hero" series.
> 
> any other game that was announced to  be at launch WINDOW and then got cancelled?


----------



## Coto (May 3, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> Saints Row = THQ has financial problems, they don't even know if they will be able to publish games that are almost complete.
> Assassin's Creed = this
> DJ Hero = Activision killed the "hero" series.
> 
> ...



http://gbatemp.net/t...lled-3ds-games/

except Crush 3D

No more talking to this guy, it's useless.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 3, 2012)

Coto said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > Coto said:
> ...



My Garden (EA) *I don't know*
DJ Hero 3 (Activision) *Activion killed the "hero" franchise.*
Saints Row: Drive-by (THQ) *THQ has financial problems, they don't even know if they will be able to publish games that are almost complete.*
Omega Five (Hudson) *Hudson is dead*
Kororinpa: Marble Mania (Hudson) *Hudson is dead*
Bonk (Hudson) *Hudson is dead*
Bomberman (Hudson) *Hudson is dead*
BloodRayne: The Shroud (TBC) *didn't even know about this one*
MegaMan Legends (Capcom) *Capcom canceled it because yes*
Crush 3D (Sega) (TBC)




Coto said:


> No more talking to this guy, it's useless.



nice to see that you run out of arguments.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 3, 2012)

heartgold said:


> The real question is will the Wii-U follow Wii's footsteps or will it end up just like the GC...


If it's able to hold it's own graphically against the PS4/Nextbox (with a gap similar to the PS2 and Gamecube/Xbox), then sure. Nintendo core games and tons of third-party games would make a killer platform.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 3, 2012)

soulx said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > The real question is will the Wii-U follow Wii's footsteps or will it end up just like the GC...
> ...


I still think that the end-user should have the option to connect multiple WiiU controllers rather than be forced to use just one. I value my gaming parties, I'd hate to relegate others to a secondary role while I use the glorious tabletontroller.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 3, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...


From what I've heard, Nintendo has allowed for multiple Wii U controllers in the latest devkit.


----------



## Midna (May 3, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NeoGohan said:
> 
> 
> > *The first console in the generation you are refering to was the Xbox 360, and guess what? It turned out to be the weakest.* are you really using that argument?
> ...


Uhh, you _want _another Cell?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 3, 2012)

soulx said:


> From what I've heard, Nintendo has allowed for multiple Wii U controllers in the latest devkit.


Thank fu*k for that, the idea of a single controller only was idiotic to begin with and quite contrary to the whole... y'know, "Wii" part of the name.

Why have the capacity to play splitscreen on numerous screens if you can only have *2* - the TV and the tablet?

With a few tablet controllers, splitscreen gaming could be revived in a really BIG way, to the point that every player could sit in a different room or move aroud the house during a gaming session - that's pretty sweet if you ask me. No more will we have to pause to get a few beers from the fridge - a dream-come-true.



Midna said:


> Uhh, you _want _another Cell?


Why not? Programming difficulties were present only in the beginning of the PS3's life-cycle - they were later nullified by updated devkits.

That said, I would prefere a PowerPC setup, but we'll see what they come up with. I'm sure they learned from their mistakes.


----------



## NeoGohan (May 3, 2012)

after reading some NEW info, i'm 100% sure that the Wii U launch will be one of the best ever.

it looks like Iwata is really trying to bring the "hardcore gamers" back.

don't miss this E3.


----------



## emigre (May 3, 2012)

heartgold said:


> The real question is will the Wii-U follow Wii's footsteps or will it end up just like the GC...



Gamecube, GameCUBE, GAMECUBE! I hope the Wii U ends up being like the Gamecube. Gamecube>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>glorified Gamecube with motion controls


----------



## Qtis (May 3, 2012)

I think the main issue here is that people have quite a bit of feelings in the game. When someone mentioned that Sony made a loss as a company (the gaming devision making a loss), no one seemed to mention that also Nintendo (Gaming company?) made a loss. Hell the 360 hasn't really been a success financially AFAIK, but that doesn't really matter to MS, since Windows pumps up profit more than most can even imagine.

Every console strived with exclusive titles. The Wii had lots of Nintendo titles (Zelda, Mario, etc), PS3 had Sony exclusives (LBP, Uncharted, etc) and the 360 had MS exclusives (Halo, Alan Wake, ME1). What makes the consoles even better are others making games for them. Nintendo lost in this section this time around. Even though it had some ports, the PS3/360 got the better versions of the games.. The main problem this gen is that Wii games can be made for the PS3/360, but not necessarily the other way around. A good example is Dead Space. DS1&2 were PS3/360. DS:Extraction was for the Wii/PS3. Probably could be made for the 360 too. DS1&2 on the other hand would probably need a lot of modification for a Wii version to be made.

Motion controls on the Wii aren't unique anymore, but the games still are. If the WiiU can add something more to it, it's cool and a must for party players. If someone really has tried the PS Move and compared the sport games with the Wii counterparts, without trying to be biased, the Move versions are more responsive. Sure there more games on the Wii with motion control, but then again new games are being released with PS Move support. The original hardware is the only limit that consoles have nowadays, nothing to say will change that. New revisions can be made, but if everything has to work on the old consoles, the hardware can't be changed too much..


I'll just go enjoy my consoles and the games they offer.

ps. On the argument regarding graphics: If there is powerful hardware present, it's possible to use better graphics. If someone says that's not an issue, try using a PS2 emu or the Wii emu Dolphin on a high-end PC. Games like FFXII and Skyward Sword look a lot better.


----------

