# Should I be forced to go to Church against my own will?



## skystealer (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm going to put this in the shortest way possible before my mom yells at me "Get off the computer and get dressed."

Alright, Should anyone be forced to go to church against their own will? I mean, I believe in god, but I refuse to just go to Church because I got alot of stuff to manage as is. My DAD believes in god, but he NEVER goes and my mom never asks him a thing about it, but I'm forced to get up every Sunday morning, and sit through a long sermon with words that I can barely understand. And if i DIDN'T go, I'd get grounded for like a week.

Anyone think this is wrong, yes?


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## Tonitonichopchop (Mar 20, 2011)

Well, she is your mom, so you should listen to her. The choice about going to church is ultimately up to you when you're older. What she's doing is a bit cruel, but it's completely fair.


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## boktor666 (Mar 20, 2011)

skystealer said:
			
		

> I'm going to put this in the shortest way possible before my mom yells at me "Get off the computer and get dressed."
> 
> Alright, Should anyone be forced to go to church against their own will? I mean, I believe in god, but I refuse to just go to Church because I got alot of stuff to manage as is. My DAD believes in god, but he NEVER goes and my mom never asks him a thing about it, but I'm forced to get up every Sunday morning, and sit through a long sermon with words that I can barely understand. And if i DIDN'T go, I'd get grounded for like a week.
> 
> Anyone think this is wrong, yes?


The point is, they actually can't force you I guess. It would violate some rights or something, but mostley, your dad isn't going= a reason that you, as kid, shouldn't interfere with. 

However, I know how BORING those speeches are, since my sister used to sing in church choire, even though we don't have a religion. Talk about it with your mom, state your view on it, and discuss the possiblities, this is the only way to settle this without a fight.


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## Wizerzak (Mar 20, 2011)

"Thou shall respect thy father and mother" or something.....


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## dice (Mar 20, 2011)

Well she can't drag you there so you do have the option of not going, keeping in mind the consequences that you may have to face.

Talk to your dad?


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## denieru7 (Mar 20, 2011)

I went through the same thing as you, I used to believe in God and I was Christian and believed everything I was told about Christianity, but I hated sermons. They bored the shit out of me, I never understood them and I always tried to find a way to sleep.

While it's not fair, it's best to just do as they say. We stopped going to church eventually.

Now I'm an atheist, after learning heaps of Physics and Chemistry.


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## Narayan (Mar 20, 2011)

haha, i've faced the same problem when i was younger. i had no choice but to go, but everytime i go, i always show how i don't like going to churce NOT because i don't believe but i get bored. i explain that i still do good stuff and remain a good person. 

I always tell her:
"I know that I should go to Church mom because it's a tribute for God, but if I were god I wouldn't want to have someone sleeping where they should be praying instead. Not everyone in the Media are on TV, most of them are in the field looking for news."

EDIT: i'm still a Christian since all of my relatives are, but i'm actually an apatheist.


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## Depravo (Mar 20, 2011)

Religion should never be enforced. That kind of defeats the whole point.


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## The Catboy (Mar 20, 2011)

Depravo said:
			
		

> Religion should never be enforced. That kind of defeats the whole point.


I was just about to come in here and say the very same thing


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## twiztidsinz (Mar 20, 2011)

Based on the fact that you mention being grounded, I'm assuming you're under 18... so pretty much "tough shit", it's your parents house, you're a minor, you gotta go.


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## KingdomBlade (Mar 20, 2011)

We rarely went to church. We went around 2 or 3 times every half a year or so. My parents preferred Sunday to be my study day, and I did too, since I never had any time to do so during weekdays. I haven't gone to church in around... half a year I guess? Funny since officially, I'm Christian. (but all of my friends know I'm secular humanist, my family doesn't though)

At your problem, just live with it. Church isn't that bad (although the church we went to had this really funny priest that told somewhat satirical stories all the time). It's just an hour, no biggie. I mean, that's as big as a period of history class, which is way more boring. I guess she just wants you to be a loyal Christian, and she has authority over you so you can choose to deal with it or let her use her power.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Mar 20, 2011)

If you believe it is worth fighting for, refuse to go to church. And if she's willing to ground you for a week because you do not attend a certain location on command, then it says far more about her than you. Resist the grounding, too, if possible; given the irrational and potentially reactionary position of religious thought, I don't think it's worth submitting to. But don't take this as a rule of thumb, for I speak here out of my own experience. In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that there is a god.


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## _Chaz_ (Mar 20, 2011)

You're living with your parents, go to church if they tell you to.


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## Ducky (Mar 20, 2011)

i'd not go to the church a few times till they understand that grounding you isn't really bother you.

Each time they say that your grounded just go to your room.

after 2-3 times they'll look for a better way to convince you to go to church , if you keep on accepting what they offer as a punishment for not going they'll realize you clearly don't WANT to go to the church.

Thats pure human psychology for you


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## ars25 (Mar 20, 2011)

KingdomBlade said:
			
		

> (although the church we went to had this really funny priest that told somewhat satirical stories all the time)..


my church priest is like that too 
ot: your mom although not trying is breaking your rights as a human you actually have the rights to decide what you want to do in life it isn't our parents job to do that there job is to guide us while growing up (although moms think they can control you just because they gave birth to us) just tell her i have rights too although i am a kid teen (whatever age you are) if i don't want to go i don't have to go
my parents understand that  the only time they force me is ash wends-day or any other big mass event


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## Slyakin (Mar 20, 2011)

You have to question yourself : "Should I go to this sermon? Is it any better then the other boring things in my life, like school?"

We as a community can't really say, definitively, yes or no. I would, as an individual, say you should have your own rights... But others may not say the same thing.

It all ends up as your decision.


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## Ravager90 (Mar 20, 2011)

A forced religion is a bad religion. 
State your point - give your best to make them understand what bothers you the most about christ church.
I've never gone through such problems, but concerning religion, everyone has to make his own decissions, no matter if 11 or 80.
A Religion executed with force and punishment is just bound to fail. If you believe and see a point in going to church do so. If not stay away - it's that easy.


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## KingdomBlade (Mar 20, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> If you believe it is worth fighting for, refuse to go to church. And if she's willing to ground you for a week because you do not attend a certain location on command, then it says far more about her than you. Resist the grounding, too, if possible; given the irrational and potentially reactionary position of religious thought, I don't think it's worth submitting to. But don't take this as a rule of thumb, for I speak here out of my own experience. In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that there is a god.



He's not resenting religious thought, he does believe in God. What he resents is having to go to church even though he does not want to.


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## DeadLocked (Mar 20, 2011)

More to the point does forcing religion, a set career path or something similar on your child make you a bad parent?
I'd say yes, but sometimes this can have adverse effects like lax views on religion, education etc.

I believe that you should never be forced to do anything in life, if you're forced to do it you'll subconsciously rebel and never want to do it of your own accord. If you have a choice then that's a different story.

TL;DR No you should not be forced to go to church, everyone should learn to be independent at a young age and make their own choices or when they reach adulthood and get their own house, pay their own bills it will hit them like a tonne of bricks.


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## Urza (Mar 20, 2011)

Maybe some of you should actually read the original post before replying, as he states that religion is not being forced upon him, he is already a believer.

As other posters have also stated, you are a child. It is your parents' job to raise you and teach you the moral values they feel are important. It's not "cruel" that you have to do some things you don't like (protip: life is basically doing a series of things you don't want to).

Speak to her and try to explain your view point. If that doesn't work, oh well. They're providing you with the things you need to live, food, a roof over your head, clothes on your back. You owe it to her to respect that wish.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> I believe that you should never be forced to do anything in life, if you're forced to do it you'll subconsciously rebel and never want to do it of your own accord. If you have a choice then that's a different story.


Except our society, the media and corporate influence promote self-indulgence and temporary gratification.

If we weren't forced to do things as kids, we wouldn't do them. Kids would drop out of school, play 18 hours of Gameboy a day, subsiding on nothing but pizza and soda. Parents are there to teach us how to survive.


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## Lyghts (Mar 20, 2011)

I think you should go, take notes of the sermon and when you get home do your own research on what was taught. Most the time you will find many contradictions on what your preachers says vs. what the bible says. If you find the contradictions point them out to your mom and ask her opinion, if you find no contradictions then you belong to a good bible based church and should go as often as possible, regardless of your religious beliefs now or when you get older, you might find the study of theology vary interesting.


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## _Chaz_ (Mar 20, 2011)

Lyghts said:
			
		

> I think you should go, take notes of the sermon and when you get home do your own research on what was taught. Most the time you will find many contradictions on what your preachers says vs. what the bible says. If you find the contradictions point them out to your mom and ask her opinion, if you find no contradictions then you belong to a good bible based church and should *go as often as possible, regardless of your religious beliefs now or when you get older*, you might find the study of theology vary interesting.


Get out.


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## Ikki (Mar 20, 2011)

Should you be forced? No.
Should you go? I assume you're pretty young so, yes. You should if your mother tells you to.




			
				Lyghts said:
			
		

> I think you should go, take notes of the sermon and when you get home do your own research on what was taught. Most the time you will find many contradictions on what your preachers says vs. what the bible says. If you find the contradictions point them out to your mom and ask her opinion, if you find no contradictions then you belong to a good bible based church and should go as often as possible, regardless of your religious beliefs now or when you get older, you might find the study of theology vary interesting.


LOL


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## Jamstruth (Mar 20, 2011)

Depravo said:
			
		

> Religion should never be enforced. That kind of defeats the whole point.
> All religion is kind of enforced. The message is pretty much "Believe this and follow these rules or BURN FOR ETERNITY FOR YOUR SIN!". Well, except Buddhism but its a different class of religion to Christianity or Islam (for example)
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He signed up just to say that too. I'd say he's troll-bait.

Anyway as for the original poster. What do you believe? You say you believe in God but do you believe in Christianity? Believing in God and believing in organised religion are two seperate things in my mind. Its possible to believe there is a higher power without belonging to a specific sect of religion. If you believe in Christianity, its teachings, its rules then you should go to church before the aforementioned burning for eternity happens. (I'm an Atheist if you couldn't tell.)


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## Urza (Mar 20, 2011)

Jamstruth said:
			
		

> He signed up just to say that too. I'd say he's troll-bait.


Joined: 26-October 07


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## Jamstruth (Mar 20, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Good point but that's his one post. Gimme a break.


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## Santee (Mar 20, 2011)

Ducky said:
			
		

> i'd not go to the church a few times till they understand that grounding you isn't really bother you.
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> Each time they say that your grounded just go to your room.
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I'd say this is your only choice, if you really don't want to go then take the punishment and get on with your life the way you've chosen to live it.


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## LunaWofl (Mar 20, 2011)

Ha, reminds me of my younger days when I was forced to go to church. 
I stopped being forced after I pointed out something bad always happens to me when im in churches.
The funnest of which was when i got knocked out when a light bulb fell, other wise, id just get nosebleeds, or become really sick after.

But on-topic: No, you should not be forced to do anything. However, there are reasons to do so.
You mention that your dad doesent attend church, which, assuming your an only child, would make you and your mother the only people from your family to attend.
Me thinks the possibility of your mother not wanting to go alone is the source of your problem.


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## GeekyGuy (Mar 20, 2011)

I sympathize with you, man. I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness, and we went to the Kingdom Hall twice a week, plus a book study at a member's home, and my brother and I both had a weekly Bible study. It was a lot as a kid. I didn't even fully grok the idea of God as a kid. When I was about 13 and rebelled enough, some of the congregation elders recommended to my mother that we be given the choice to go or not. 

Was it the right thing to do? Only God knows for sure.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Best of luck.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Mar 20, 2011)

KingdomBlade said:
			
		

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I completely understood that he does not resent religious thought, and that he believes in a god. The last bit was merely my own position on such matters as being forced to go to church and religion in general. In other words, while he may not resent religion and god, I do. Hence the reason why I was careful to say that he should not take it "as a rule of thumb, for I speak here out of my own experience."

@Lyghts: You want to speak of contradictions to religious doctrine? Try science. I doubt that would go over well with his mother or even the original poster, however.


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## Garro (Mar 20, 2011)

When I was a kid I assisted Church, after a while my whole family stop going because we lost the point in going the church and myself because I thought it was a waste of time (That time I was catholic or christian, I dont remember, just because my family was). Then with school I started thinking for my own and decided to don't care if theres a deity or not because that won't change my lifestyle.

I disagree being forced to go to church, if you don't want to do stuff, doing them becomes a pain and practically you won't learn anything, the only consequences you will face is losing obvious teachings from the bible and have more time for other stuff (and whatever your mom punich you).


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## Ziggy Zigzagoon (Mar 20, 2011)

Either you are not a true Christian (since Christians have a new song in their hearts) or your church is not true and honest (since there are some churches that are full of fluff and do not get to the true meat of the matter: preaching God's Word).

P.S. I am a fundamentalist "ronin" (churchless) Protestant, albeit with low levels of maturity.


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## kiba93 (Mar 20, 2011)

skystealer said:
			
		

> I'm going to put this in the shortest way possible before my mom yells at me "Get off the computer and get dressed."
> 
> Alright, Should anyone be forced to go to church against their own will? I mean, I believe in god, but I refuse to just go to Church because I got alot of stuff to manage as is. My DAD believes in god, but he NEVER goes and my mom never asks him a thing about it, but I'm forced to get up every Sunday morning, and sit through a long sermon with words that I can barely understand. And if i DIDN'T go, I'd get grounded for like a week.
> 
> Anyone think this is wrong, yes?



If you don't want to, just stay at home, nobody can force you into believing in anything, especially if you can't understand that "mumbo-jumbo" stuff.
plus, one piece episodes comes out on sunday  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




You get grounded? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



what does that feels like? cause i have never been grounded


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## Lyghts (Mar 20, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> @Lyghts: You want to speak of contradictions to religious doctrine? Try science. I doubt that would go over well with his mother or even the original poster, however.



I completely agree, and in my experience, I have independently learned that a lot of mainstream teachings are incorrect. Regardless of that, hopefully my suggestion will give TC something to do besides trying to sleep in church or getting grounded.


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## 1234turtles (Mar 20, 2011)

go to church man us minors have no power until we are 18 its better to just avoid punishment to then


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## Advi (Mar 20, 2011)

it somewhat depends on why.

if it's because you just don't want to go, then you should respect your parents, but if it's because it doesn't suit your religious beliefs, then it's worth talking with your mother about.


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## Law (Mar 20, 2011)

Garro said:
			
		

> When I was a kid I assisted Church, after a while my whole family stop going because we lost the point in going the church and myself because I thought it was a waste of time (That time I was catholic or christian, I dont remember, just because my family was). Then with school I started thinking for my own and decided to don't care if theres a deity or not because that won't change my lifestyle.
> 
> I disagree being forced to go to church, if you don't want to do stuff, doing them becomes a pain and practically you won't learn anything,* the only consequences you will face is losing obvious teachings from the bible* and have more time for other stuff (and whatever your mom punich you).



There is no consequence in that.

Tell her you're sick of being brainwashed, then set fire to the church.


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## ProtoKun7 (Mar 20, 2011)

Ultimately, it will be a matter of choice. If it'll make her feel better then it might be worth it.



			
				denieru7 said:
			
		

> Now I'm an atheist, after learning heaps of Physics and Chemistry.








 That implies that they contradict each other, when in reality they don't.


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## Urza (Mar 20, 2011)

ProtoKun7 said:
			
		

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Nothing can really contradict "I believe in magic."


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## Advi (Mar 20, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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"this happened for a reason" contradicts "this happened for no reason" pretty well, the logical difference between reason and faith is something is either considered true until proven false or false until proven true; science and religion aren't mutually exclusive.


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## Urza (Mar 20, 2011)

Advi said:
			
		

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And magically there is no contradiction.

See how magic works?


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## Advi (Mar 20, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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## ProtoKun7 (Mar 20, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Something you don't understand you dismiss as magic.
I see how it is.


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## Urza (Mar 20, 2011)

ProtoKun7 said:
			
		

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It's like believing that Harry Potter is real. I don't need to definitively prove that there's no invisible magic school over England, do I?


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## KingVamp (Mar 20, 2011)

Spoiler






			
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You shouldn't,it wrong/unfair,but at this point you do not really got a choice. 

I do not see why you can believe/ have fate at home.

The church itself is just a symbol/object/building/ a word.

Some churches do not even look like churches anymore.

You matter well call your own home a church.


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## mollekemiel (Mar 20, 2011)

you CAN be forced to go against your own WII


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## Fat D (Mar 20, 2011)

As others said, you should not be forced, but thanks to parental authority, you still can. At least unless you can get your father to help you out. Most churches are no closer to any credibly benevolent god than a piece of fried bacon, however. While I consider religion a matter of fiction, I believe everyone in this community knows that you can argue about what stories about something are true in a fictional world, so despite leaning on the atheist side, I have some theological belief, and the idea of any major church being somewhere true to the ideals of Christianity sounds utterly ridiculous to me.


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## DrOctapu (Mar 20, 2011)

My mom sometimes does the same thing. "It's Christmas soon, we should go to church. Wouldn't it be so RONERY being an atheist? Man, I don't know how I could trust an atheist since they don't believe in god. LET'S GO TO CHURCH."
I have yet to tell her that I'm atheist.


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## Recorderdude (Mar 20, 2011)

Forcing a child to go to church is the absolute best way to make them hate it and hate you.

Let me tell you a true story about my friend, James. James was possibly the best friend I've ever had. He lived and still lives 2 minutes away from me and we have a TON of interests in common. His parents, however were HUGE churchies, or as we call them, "Bible Thumpers". They made him go to church no matter what. For a while, I was going to his church, and all was going pretty well. However, when Dad and I stopped going to church, his parents refused to let me hang out with him anymore outside of school (and they would have prevented me from hanging out with him IN school if they could have). Over time, James told me he had lost a TON of his good friends this way, and he was left with a lot of "Good Church-Going Christians" that tormented him because of his heavy weight and long hair (seriously, his hair was longer than most girls). Then, one day he finally snapped in the middle of school and yelled in the middle of a history class (at a time when I and a few others were defending evolution from a hoard of hateful "Christians") 

"I'M GONNA BLOW UP THIS SCHOOL AND ALL THE CHRISTIANS IN IT!"

It honestly surprised all of us.

He was, of course, immediately expelled from our high school.

Now he does homeschool, like I do (though I left because of bullying). I haven't heard from him since then, but I don't think he likes his parents or his church much anymore.

As for my beliefs, I'm sort of a christian and sort of an atheist. I don't want to waste my time going to church and praising a lord that may or may not exist, but I still want heaven and hell to exist because, let's face it, it would really suck to just stop existing forever when we die. Plus, It'd be great fun to throw some flaming feces at hitler from above in the realm of the pearly gates


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## dryo (Mar 20, 2011)

yeah...well that's convenient,so sorry to tell you but if you want heaven to exist or be in heaven you have to believe in god, if you want to believe in god, you need to go to church and praise for his existence,if you believe in something and do nothing,is the samething as saying " I wanna have a job" to " I'll get the job done"


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## Recorderdude (Mar 20, 2011)

dryo said:
			
		

> yeah...well that's convenient,so sorry to tell you but if you want heaven to exist or be in heaven you have to believe in god, if you want to believe in god, you need to go to church and praise for his existence,if you believe in something and do nothing,is the samething as saying " I wanna have a job" to " I'll get the job done"



That's like if I said if you want to believe that Sony will lose against Geo, you have to send him money to support that belief. Belief requires no actions be taken.

But I dont wanna get into any of that crap too far. Maybe there's an afterlife, maybe there isn't. All we know for sure is that we only get one life and we shouldn't waste it arguing on the internet.


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## KingVamp (Mar 20, 2011)

dryo said:
			
		

> yeah...well that's convenient,so sorry to tell you but if you want heaven to exist or be in heaven you have to believe in god, if you want to believe in god, you need to go to church and praise for his existence,if you believe in something and do nothing,is the samething as saying " I wanna have a job" to " I'll get the job done"


Do not believe because you do not want get up Sunday or some day at blank time every time?

You just call all believers who do not go to church liars. 

Church is just building. You can do the same amount of praising and believing at home. 

It more like working at home or working at somewhere else. 

That like saying "I bully people and do bad things , but that fine I go to church."


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## MelodieOctavia (Mar 20, 2011)

Here's YOUR only answer: 

No, going to church shouldn't be forced upon you, but you still live under your parent's roof so you need to do what they say.


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## SubliminalSegue (Mar 20, 2011)

I was forced as a kid, but that's just because I lived with my parents. Their rules. There's nothing wrong though with spending an hour a week thinking about something bigger than yourself. 

I choose not to as an adult, not because I'm anti-religious, but I don't believe you have to go to Church to have a meaningful relationship with God.


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## dryo (Mar 20, 2011)

that's what we call neo catholicism,god's cool with that.(I guess..)


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## SubliminalSegue (Mar 20, 2011)

dryo said:
			
		

> that's what we call neo catholicism,god's cool with that.(I guess..)



I hated being a catholic, man. It's so uptight and shit. Methodist, too.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 21, 2011)

We all have things in life that we don't want to do, but we must do them anyways. This may be a lesson from your parents about that. Being in your parent's house means you go by their rules. If you don't like those rules, you can always move out. Of course, once you are out of your parents house, you can do whatever you want. However, to survive, you'd still have to do things you don't want to do, but that will be on your terms with your decisions.


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## Dylan (Mar 21, 2011)

The best way to make a child an atheist for life is to put them through religiously owned education. There is hardly anything I hate more than the moronic remnants of something that should have faded out already.


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## Vigilante (Mar 21, 2011)

You have 168 hours in a week.In that that 168 hours you only spend 1 hour for church.
In a year,you have 8760 hours.In that 8760 hours you only spend about 48 hours or 2 days of your life for church which is a little time to sacrifice seeing how much time you still have.

Do the math,its all for YOU to decide.

(P.S:The spelling of the  church as in the structure isn't suppose to be capitalized.)


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## emigre (Mar 21, 2011)

Vigilante said:
			
		

> You have 168 hours in a week.In that that 168 hours you only spend 1 hour for Church.
> In a year,you have 8760 hours.In that 8760 hours you only spend about 48 hours or 2 days of your life which is a little time to sacrifice seeing how much time you still have.
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> Do the math,its all for YOU to decide.



TBF 48 hours at church is 48 hours too many.


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## Pyrmon (Mar 21, 2011)

emigre said:
			
		

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This x10


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## KingdomBlade (Mar 21, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

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The answer that Vigilante gave is exclusive to devout Christians (which I know Vigilante is since he reacted bitterly to the bible being called untrue) so his answer becomes invalid. It's pretty obvious that the OP practices his faith very loosely or that he's not a devout Christian.

And 48 hours is too much from the point of an atheist (which you have made it clear you are). Personally, since I'm humanist, I don't care about church.


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## Vigilante (Mar 21, 2011)

KingdomBlade said:
			
		

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One I just posted is not an answer but a statement of fact plus I gave skystealer the final decision.


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## KingdomBlade (Mar 21, 2011)

Vigilante said:
			
		

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Let's rephrase that. Not an answer, but a response. Also, I feel that you stress your response in a way that you're trying to convince him. (because of all the big fonts) I am still pretty sure you are a devout Christian. Also, his problem is not related to time constraints, it's the fact that he's being forced to go to the church even though he does not want to. I honestly don't think that 48 hours is that big either, but the question is, should he be forced to do something he does not want to do. He just does not feel it is rational to be forced to do something he does not want to do. I don't think it would be fair to be forced to do something you don't want to do, even if it's 5 minutes or 5 years.

Let's try a hypothetical situation. What if the title of the thread was "Should I be forced to kill someone against my own will?" and it took like 5 minutes to kill someone and you have to kill 12 people. Oh wow! You only have to spend an hour. Now it is your decision. Does the time constraint look related to the problem at hand? I don't think so.


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## Vigilante (Mar 21, 2011)

KingdomBlade said:
			
		

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> 
> 
> 
> ...


I give up,you win just take me away from this.....AHHHH...L...O...L


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 21, 2011)

Well, there is one thing skystealer did point out, and that is that his father doesn't go to church. It's rather silly to expect a son to go to church when your own spouse doesn't go. I say if skystealer has to go, then his father must go as well. If the father can stay home, then so can he.


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## Ringo619 (Mar 21, 2011)

i have the same problem i have to wake up at like 7 am on a sunday and my mom yells at me to get off the bed and  get dressed and  when i go there all you do is just sit, kneel and stand for 1 to 2 hours. But lucky for me  we don't  go to church but  like everyone said  shes your mom might as  well listen to her xD


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## KuRensan (Mar 21, 2011)

Nope I always think: "God gave me life, why give it back in the church" I also say it to a friend who also is forced to go to church


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## MadClaw (Mar 21, 2011)

Church is awesome anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





-Serious, I'm baptist :3


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## antwill (Mar 21, 2011)

"Oh man so I was watching that show ... there's the guy on stage and then everybody in the audience believes that he has contact with the dead and spirits talk to him ... no, no, no, no, it was church." - David Cross.

But seriously OP, don't go if you don't want to, even though your mother is trying to be a good example for you. Sure she can't really force your dad to go, but she can try and mould you into a better human being in her eyes by going to church with her.


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## Hop2089 (Mar 21, 2011)

Just get a bible, read, and pray, you don't need to go to church, it's overrated at best.


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## lordrand11 (Mar 21, 2011)

As far as church goes. Maybe you should accept your mother's rule. When you move out you'll be able to make your own decisions.


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## Sterling (Mar 21, 2011)

@Skystealer (Nice name, it kinda fits with the discussion lol):

Well, if your mother is making you go, submit to her wishes. Church is cool when your young because at times many of your friends also are made to go there. If you don't though, make sure you talk with your mom. You'd be surprised at what a son to parent conversation can accomplish.

Otherwise, remember when you get older. It's your choice of what to follow or not, not her's. Just keep that in mind.


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## Dylan (Mar 21, 2011)

Sounds like you're a youngster. There's not a whole lot you can do when you're young and under someone else's responsibility. Just smoke weed and listen to slayer.


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## Shinigami357 (Mar 23, 2011)

God Almighty gave humans this little thing called Free Will, which means it should be your choice on whether you wish to go to church or not.


Disclaimer:
Parents also give their children this little thing called Allowance, which means if you mom gets PO'd at ya, you'd have no moolah for a little while... Make your choice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Also...



			
				KingdomBlade said:
			
		

> Let's rephrase that. Not an answer, but a response. Also, I feel that you stress your response in a way that you're trying to convince him. (because of all the big fonts) I am still pretty sure you are a devout Christian. Also, his problem is not related to time constraints, it's the fact that he's being forced to go to the church even though he does not want to. I honestly don't think that 48 hours is that big either, but the question is, should he be forced to do something he does not want to do. He just does not feel it is rational to be forced to do something he does not want to do. I don't think it would be fair to be forced to do something you don't want to do, even if it's 5 minutes or 5 years.
> 
> Let's try a hypothetical situation. What if the title of the thread was "Should I be forced to kill someone against my own will?" and it took like 5 minutes to kill someone and you have to kill 12 people. Oh wow! You only have to spend an hour. Now it is your decision. Does the time constraint look related to the problem at hand? I don't think so.



?THIS? For The Effin' Win!!!


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## alphenor (Mar 23, 2011)

Going to church isn't included in the 10 Commandments...

and before replying to my post, don't mistake for the commandment "Remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day" as going into church. Going into church is just *one of the ways* to fulfill that commandment.


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## Nigrok (Mar 24, 2011)

Forcing religion on you?  The Bible kinda says not to push your religion on other people....parenting FAIL.  I'm a Christian but I'm not throwing my ideals at people and forcing it down their throats...bleh..


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## MMX (Mar 24, 2011)

my parents were forcing it on me, from the age of 7-8 to about 12 plus the stuff from roman-katholic class in school. The biggest problem imo is that I didn't get any sense of what that guy up there is talking about neither did I care. Parents probably have this rulebook where this doctrine has to be part or else they're marked as faithless parents by society and their parents? Or they think without it the kids are going to be hardcore punks or something like that - a Nelson from Simpsons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , just my 2 eurocents.


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## Thesolcity (Mar 24, 2011)

No, its not a good idea, but since you're a minor, tough shit I guess. I used to be forced to go to church, didn't do a damn thing for me. In fact the irony of it is I had to look it up on my own free will later in life before I was able to make a decision. I didn't believe in church for the longest time though, I believed (and still beleive) in the bible and what it taught, but those years of being forced to go every sunday and being taught something I couldn't relate to, along with every friday I fell asleep at the "friday night worship" thing they had going on, kinda just gave me the impression church either didn't work, or didn't work for me.  I eventually drew back into the church when a friend showed me a pastor who I was able to relate to, and (OMG) didn't judge people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




TL;DR

Being forced to go to church doesn't do anything but drill a disdain for church into your head. Church (and faith, incidentally), is something you willingly have to go in to on your own time because otherwise, you're just kidding yourself and you don't grasp the true concept of what they're trying to teach. 

P.S.
Sorry if this seems rambling, I'm tired.


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## dark ajax (Mar 24, 2011)

You should NOT be forced to go to church, I believe in God myself and I go to church SOMETIMES when i feel like it, it should really be your own choice.


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## ProtoKun7 (Mar 24, 2011)

Nigrok said:
			
		

> Forcing religion on you?  The Bible kinda says not to push your religion on other people....parenting FAIL.  I'm a Christian but I'm not throwing my ideals at people and forcing it down their throats...bleh..


He's talking about the going to church part, not the believing part.


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## iMythD (Mar 26, 2011)

If your a child. then yes. Listen to your parents. If your like 17-18 then no, talk to your mum and share your veiws.


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## Demonbart (Mar 26, 2011)

Your profile says you were born in april 1994, so you're 16 now.
I think you should be able to decide for yourself.
I stopped believing when I was 12 and never did my parents yell at me or punish me for it.
Going to church is something you have to do for yourself because you want to. Not because you get grounded if you don't go.


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## Panzer Tacticer (Mar 27, 2011)

skystealer said:
			
		

> I'm going to put this in the shortest way possible before my mom yells at me "Get off the computer and get dressed."
> 
> Alright, Should anyone be forced to go to church against their own will? I mean, I believe in god, but I refuse to just go to Church because I got alot of stuff to manage as is. My DAD believes in god, but he NEVER goes and my mom never asks him a thing about it, but I'm forced to get up every Sunday morning, and sit through a long sermon with words that I can barely understand. And if i DIDN'T go, I'd get grounded for like a week.
> 
> Anyone think this is wrong, yes?



Tell your mom (seriously I want you to show her this), a 49 year old married parent of a 17 year old son is telling her, rules are for everyone. If dad, who is a supposed (and he is not getting off that easy) religious person, and doesn't feel the need to go (way to go dad, lousy example of both parenting as well as example), then she has no case for getting anyone (yourself included) to go if they don't wish to go.

Has nothing to do with your age, the fact you are her child, etc etc etc. And yes the Bible says honour your mother and your father. Tell dad if he needs it, I can find the parts where it explains the expectations placed on fathers to lead by example (which he is not doing).

I am 100% not religious (at this time) but, I was born Anglican, was an alter boy in my teens and I have been a Mormon in my 30s (stopped though) but according to their beliefs (which matter to them) I am an Aaronic priest in good standing (regardless of my decision to quit). I even baptized my own wife.
The reason I mention all of that, is so I don't get offered some lame Bible based justifications for why she's right and I am wrong. Chances are she is utterly outclassed in this debate, and might as well not bother trying to defend her actions at all.

I have been out of line before with my son, and I had to eat crow and apologize. Darned right, the rules apply to dad as well. Rules that are not for all, are simply not rules, just a person abusing power.

Sounds to me, the main reason mom can't get dad to go, is well the obvious, he's a full grown male adult and he clearly doesn't think he needs to even listen to her.
Maybe if dad was told 'go to church, or you make your own meals, do your own laundry, and you can forget your sex life for the next week' he might feel inspired to get out of bed for a couple of hours and listen to the same dull boring dialogue (which I can tell you I am no stranger to).

Lead by example. My son for instance swears too much. Sadly he is only guilty of listening to me too much. I AM TO BLAME NOT HIM. Very important detail.
When you dad is ready to go to church, you will be ready to go to church. If he doesn't feel a need to go, your mom has no right to complain if no one else wants to go.
Suck it up dad, and don't bother trying the 'I'm tired from working all week' dodge.


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 27, 2011)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> ~snip


You're back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




necessary off-topic post


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## Ossot (Mar 28, 2011)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> Tell your mom (seriously I want you to show her this), a 49 year old married parent of a 17 year old son is telling her, rules are for everyone.



Because religious zealots are concerned with what people on the, gaming, internet forums say.


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## Snorlax (Mar 28, 2011)

You're obviously going to a church which is monotonous, boring, and totally misses the Christian message. Stick it out until you're older, then go to a church which you actually enjoy being at.

However, if your church is already pumpin', stop being so damned ignorant.



			
				alphenor said:
			
		

> Going to church isn't included in the 10 Commandments...


Thanks for referring to only the Old Testament and showing that you're clearly educated on the Bible.


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## ItsMetaKnight (Mar 28, 2011)

lol religions
nuff said


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## Panzer Tacticer (Mar 29, 2011)

Ossot said:
			
		

> Panzer Tacticer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course if you had quoted the part about my likely having been a dozen more times the dedicated church goer than his mother, your reply wouldn't have looked the same.

In other words, that this is a gaming site, is not in itself automatically non relevant to his non gamer mother.

And I also know of persons of quite considerable religious dedication, that also like to play console games to relax.


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## RNorthex (Mar 29, 2011)

religion is just a way of sy's view/thinking
i've *been to christian elementary school*, been very good at theology[is that what it's called?] and knew it in and out
atm i'm an *atheist* and i can easily refer to the christian religion's faultiness whenever i try to protect my views[about animals, murder, being homo, politics etc]

philosphy is all about not caring about anyone else's views much, but your own, while you try to think without limits, without people controlling you
to say what *you* think
some of you older folks, can remeber that sharing your views back 20-30-40-50years ago was hard, harder and even harder than that
in the friggin medieval ages: kid-work, guy-marry-make children-work-fight-pay, women-household = makes me vomit to even think about it

*religion is crap* and all of those who are following one: *it's not always a bad thing*, but it tends to *controll you*, use you, modify your views, shorten your "sight and hurt people around you

imagine if during an rpg, your reach level 40 and stop gaining experience, instead, just using whatever skills you have at that moment you've learnt from others
reading a gamefaq about MK saying sub-zero is teh best and going to forums spamming that sub-zero is indeed the best, flaming anyone who thinks otherwise w/o true experience = this is a very simple example of a modern religion-like effect
if u stop thinking, making up your own views, like by following a religion, you put yourself between borders and hide your true side

i mean, would you follow a religion, that says liking violent games are horrible and is a sin while it's not, it doesn't effect you, you're just having fun?
i played silent hill, it almost worships the friggin devil, resident evil 4 is one of my fav games and i've seen all happy-tree-friends episodes while my desk is full of Yoshi, Starwolf and own happy furry-cartoon drawings, i'm watching kids cartoon shows and sleep with a toy raccoon
yea, i worship the devil indeed
would you follow a religion that says if u're a girl and like girls or a boy and like boys, you're going to hell, because it's unnatural[whereas it's 101% natural]?
would you follow a religion that prohibits you from euthanasia? if sy is on a machine, living in pain, crying all day with little life in her/his veins left, begging you to kill her/him? you would do good if there is no other way, you want to make her/him happy, is that wrong? or to commit suicide? if sy really cared about you and the circumstances have hope in them, they could stop you or make you believe it's not worth dying?
you or him/her is living in pain, who the fudge prohibits you from deciding between your own death and life? it's your friggin choice, if sy stops you and *YOU* think he/she's right, then fine, but not because some stupid cult thinks suicide is down-right sin and you're going to their "hell"
would you follow a religion that says anything bad about anyone? racism? really? how are you supposed to know who is pure evil and pure good?

it's like TV is a religion nowadays as well
what do you see? movies that are about drinking yourself to death, booming headshots and rage over gangsta-music
and what do 16-20yo ppl do nowadays? party hard-core until you lose all your braincells
and most don't think it's cool or good, *others* do and that's why they do as well
all kids see that the guy rescues the princess and they love each other, little teddy bears loving everyone, always happy ends[watch some "hell girl" anime fans, good example], believing in them, homose*uality censored in all friggin way it was possible, what does the 18+rating stand for? cuz lexington in the gargoyles cartoon was not allowed to just kiss a guy, which is barely a few seconds? some kids may actually realize it's cute, some stay with princesses, in the end, all of them have their own choice

/set_drama_value=0

so, should you be forced to go to church against your own will?
no and if anyone forces you to do so, even at a very young age, they should burn in their friggin made-up hell

this is one of the things i hate most about this world
people trying to control you

your personality will be affected by your surroundings[or it is made by the surroundings - those who are into philosophy know what i'm talking about], but to our made-up standards, try to create own thoughts

clichéic stuff i know, but most people still don't get it


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## MigueelDnd (Mar 29, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> words that I can barely understand


You should go then. Although going to church is not the best thing to do to understand the Bible, it is barely a good idea to stop going if you don't have a clue about what they're talking about.
If you understood what they're saying it could be comprehensible, but if you don't there's almost nothing that can help you in this situation against the people who force you to go.


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## RNorthex (Mar 29, 2011)

bah, ninja'd xD


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 29, 2011)

RNorthex said:
			
		

> religion is just a way of sy's view/thinking
> derp
> 
> 
> ...


That's life. Deal with it.


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## RNorthex (Mar 30, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3555203:date=Mar 30 2011, 12:32 AM:name=SoulSnatcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SoulSnatcher @ Mar 30 2011, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->religion is just a way of sy's view/thinking<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
derp
<b>derp</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->philosphy is all about not caring about anyone else's views much, but your own, while you try to think without limits, without people controlling you
to say what <b>you</b> think<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggest you look at <a href="http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=gi2&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=X&ei=8VmSTcqJMYWEtgeHz_lh&ved=0CBkQvwUoAQ&q=define+philosophy&spell=1" target="_blank">this</a>.
<b>about, not definition, this is what i was actually talking about</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>religion is crap</b> and all of those who are following one: <b>it's not always a bad thing</b>, but it tends to <b>controll you</b>, use you, modify your views, shorten your "sight and hurt people around you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't given a single example as to why religion does all those things (e.g control you, shorten your sight and hurt people).
<b>i refrained from doing so because i ddin't want to be specific
-my teacher told me that if i'm ga.y i'll go to hell, simple as that, same how the pope did over and over
-my bro and my mother was shocked and had to have at least 2 or 3 days of pure silence b4 going back to normal and accept me
as much as i'm more disappointed in them because of this, it still hurts and for a bonus: gays are still being beaten up even today 
-u go to hell, purgatory or heaven, is that it? what if you got no soul? what if there's sth even more powerful that you can't imagine because your thoughts and imagination is generally limited to what u have experienced or in connection with them etc?
-back in the medieval ages christianity actually supported the war, claiming they are doing good by banishing the "evil" -....so, what about "plox don't kill"?
also, there are still some countries which are extremely religious and any homose*ual actions may lead to death sentence
enough examples?</b>

<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->imagine if during an rpg, your reach level 40 and stop gaining experience, instead, just using whatever skills you have at that moment you've learnt from others<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Horrible analogy.
<b>simple for those who can barely understand it, you think like others do and not by yourself, expanding your views</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->reading a gamefaq about MK saying sub-zero is teh best and going to forums spamming that sub-zero is indeed the best, flaming anyone who thinks otherwise w/o true experience = this is a very simple example of a modern religion-like effect<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not everybody is a religious zealot.
<b>not everybody, but there are some and there were and those people or - best example - parents can teach their kids to be like that
if u were right, then euthanasia and suicide wouldn't be a sin, no money would've been spent for churches and discrimination wouldn't be that much of a problem</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if u stop thinking, making up your own views, like by following a religion, you put yourself between borders and hide your true side<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody is forcing you to follow a certain religion. It's a <i><b>choice</b></i>.
<b>are you even reading what i just wrote? it's enough if your parents raise you like that, then it !WON'T! be your choice</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i mean, would you follow a religion, that says liking violent games are horrible and is a sin while it's not, it doesn't effect you, you're just having fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Name one religion that says "liking violent games are horrible and is a sin".
<b>still to this day some ppl think these are very harmful and not so long ago i heard a kid in USA, 15 years old playing vampire massacre bloodlines[that was the name?] and he got beaten up, mother almost went to jail, just because she thought her dear child worships the devil upon seeing blood on the monitor and hearing some vulgar language</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would you follow a religion that says if u're a girl and like girls or a boy and like boys, you're going to hell, because it's unnatural[whereas it's 101% natural]?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said above, nobody is forcing you to follow a religion that doesn't allow homosexuality. 
<b>read above</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would you follow a religion that prohibits you from euthanasia? if sy is on a machine, living in pain, crying all day with little life in her/his veins left, begging you to kill her/him? you would do good if there is no other way, you want to make her/him happy, is that wrong? or to commit suicide? if sy really cared about you and the circumstances have hope in them, they could stop you or make you believe it's not worth dying?
you or him/her is living in pain, who the fudge prohibits you from deciding between your own death and life?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO FOLLOW A RELIGION THAT PROHIBITS THOSE THINGS.
<b>read above....gee</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's your friggin choice, if sy stops you and <b>YOU</b> think he/she's right, then fine, but not because some stupid cult thinks suicide is down-right sin and you're going to their "hell"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
read what I said above
<b>same</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would you follow a religion that says anything bad about anyone? racism? really?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
read what I said above.
<b>same</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how are you supposed to know who is pure evil and pure good?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO, there is no such thing as pure evil and pure good.
<b>and if u've studied philosophy at all, it's also possible that neither good or bad exists, so what then?</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's like TV is a religion nowadays as well
what do you see? movies that are about drinking yourself to death, booming headshots and rage over gangsta-music
and what do 16-20yo ppl do nowadays? party hard-core until you lose all your braincells<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TV /=/ religion
<b>raising kids as a christian/buddhist/muslim w/e =/= religion? imagination please, they are all in connection when a child is being raised, it's a bit offtipic, but still on the subject</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and most don't think it's cool or good, <b>others</b> do and that's why they do as well
all kids see that the guy rescues the princess and they love each other, little teddy bears loving everyone, always happy ends[watch some "hell girl" anime fans, good example], believing in them, homose*uality censored in all friggin way it was possible, what does the 18+rating stand for? cuz lexington in the gargoyles cartoon was not allowed to just kiss a guy, which is barely a few seconds? some kids may actually realize it's cute, some stay with princesses, in the end, all of them have their own choice<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What does this have to do with the topic at hand or religion?
<b>read above, even the christianity encourages: do good and you'll recieve your reward....problem is, i don't believe that, i do good, but not for the reward, because you don't get it and this crap about "yes u do, you just can't see...in time!" etc doesn't work for me, it's not so logical and for human standards - upon which religions are built as well - unfair possibilites exist - that is regarding to the always happy endings and clichéic things in case you have a hard time imagining that as well - no offense</b>
<!--quoteo(post=3555136:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM:name=RNorthex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RNorthex @ Mar 29 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3555136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this is one of the things i hate most about this world
people trying to control you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's life. <a href="http://omgif.gosedesign.net/wp-content/deal-with-it.gif" target="_blank">Deal with it</a>.
<b>indeed, but sometimes it looks better, each year i see that there is some hope</b>
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i don't mean to offend you, you shouldn't as well
but honestly, i think your missing the point


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 30, 2011)

RNorthex said:
			
		

> i refrained from doing so because i ddin't want to be specific
> -my teacher told me that if i'm ga.y i'll go to hell, simple as that, same how the pope did over and over
> -my bro and my mother was shocked and had to have at least 2 or 3 days of pure silence b4 going back to normal and accept me
> as much as i'm more disappointed in them because of this, it still hurts and for a bonus: gays are still being beaten up even today
> ...


There's nothing wrong with an added incentive to do good.


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## Pyrmon (Mar 30, 2011)

@RNorthex
Religion in itself is not a bad thing and doesn't hurt anyone. Specific religions do. If someone is raised in a religion, they can always think for themselves and believe something else.


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## RNorthex (Mar 30, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> RNorthex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



how you're raised actually plays a very important part in your life thus religion does count in it
all i know is that i like philosophy, wondering and if i do good things, that's enough to go on
this is not purely a religion topic, read the title, it's about being forced thus the connection by people with the specific religion

i shared my thoughts, none of your points made me change my mind - i can't really see any valid argument there - but i don't like flaming either so let's stop then
i'm sorry if i offended you in any way, afaik it's against the rules, if you want u can always contact a moderator and delete these posts
i see no need for further replies if all it does is making you flame me


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