# Next Xbox said to house GPU 6x more powerful than current gen



## heartgold (Jan 25, 2012)

The next Xbox will ship to retailers in late October or early November of next year with six times the processing power of the Xbox 360, sources close to the project have told IGN.
Following initial reports from tech blogs Fudzilla and SemiAccurate, our sources have confirmed that mass production of the system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99.

In real terms, the Xbox 720's raw graphics processing power is expected to be six times that of the Xbox 360 and will yield 20-percent greater performance than Nintendo's forthcoming console, the Wii U.
Developers are likely to receive development kits based on the system's final configuration in August. Projected pricing for the console was not provided.

http://uk.ign.com/ar...-as-current-gen
Header slightly copied from neogaf coz I like it.


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## Fishaman P (Jan 25, 2012)

What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!


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## Deleted_171835 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm actually pretty pleased with this if it turns out to be true. This would mean that the Wii U will be able to get multi-platform games in the next gen as the difference in power isn't that much. Another PS2, Xbox and Gamecube generation would be just fine. I don't know about the PS4, though.

But for both consoles, that isn't really powerful. I would have expected much better.

Unless IGN is just spreading bullshit again. This wouldn't be the first time.


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## heartgold (Jan 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!


If true, yeah I'm with you and also only 20% better performance over the Wii U!! Now that's shocking.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!


...in a Windows envioriment, which heavily slows down its performance. The same GPU will be performing much better on hardware that was specifically designed for it playing games that were specifically programmed to run using it.

20% better performance then WiiU? Maybe. But it will be the kind of performance difference you see in benchmarks rather then actual games.

Also, worst title ever. Please, edit that.


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## heartgold (Jan 25, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> > What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!
> ...


I can't edit my own threads. 

What you said is true as well, isn't it a bit on the low side though for the next x-box? :/


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## DinohScene (Jan 25, 2012)

If IGN says it, I'm not sure to believe it.

It can be possible since it's entirely optimized for gaming tho.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 25, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Fishaman P said:
> ...


If Microsoft placed a more recent GPU in the console, the price would skyrocket to the levels that would not be acceptable by potential buyers. The same issue was discussed on the WiiU thread.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jan 25, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> If Microsoft placed a more recent GPU in the console, the price would skyrocket to the levels that would not be acceptable by potential buyers. The same issue was discussed on the WiiU thread.


Well they could take a loss at it from the beginning and make a profit later as components become cheaper. It would increase longevity for the console.


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## rt141 (Jan 25, 2012)

Actually it seems likely: 20% above wii-u (not like many games will actually be able to take the next game consoles to their limit)... don't know about the GPU, kinda feels off.


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## Erdnaxela (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't think it's true but it is what i'm expecting with next gen.
People can't afford another 500-600$ console, and we already knew that the power leap from this gen to next gen won't be impressive.
Current game are really looking good actually, so 5-6 times this would give something like Zelda Wii U tech demo.
Excuse my bad english


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> > What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!
> ...


if it's true i've been saying it all along next gen consoles won't be much different than they are now


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## Deleted_171835 (Jan 25, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Fishaman P said:
> ...


No, this is more powerful than current consoles. Just not as more powerful as expected (and rightfully so).


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

maybe more power but look at the graphics power their pretty much the same and that won't change.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 25, 2012)

I dont trust IGN anyway... I dont think that it is Xbox 3.. aka XBOX 720. Maybe it is next generation XBOX.The 20 percent powerful than Wii U doesnt sound impressive at all. Nice trying and what a showoff, Microsoft. Nah.


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## LightyKD (Jan 25, 2012)

What people fail to realize is that graphics are at a peak right now. Next gen will not be about graphics pushing but about respective experiences represented by the big four (Nintendo, OnLive, Sony, Microsoft).


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## Valwin (Jan 25, 2012)

so next gen everyone will be at the same lever


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## DarkShadow96 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'll laugh if they actually call it 720.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 25, 2012)

This means nothing. A game release list would be nice.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 25, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> maybe more power but look at the graphics power their pretty much the same and that won't change.


6x that of the 360 =/= the same.


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## DiscostewSM (Jan 25, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> > What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!
> ...



How can Windows be what's bogging down the GPU when for years, everything graphical like models, textures, shaders, etc are all uploaded to the graphics memory and retained there? Sure, Windows does make calls to load/unload to/from graphics memory as well as say "do this", but every operating system does that (including those found in gaming consoles). The actual processing of the data is solely done by the GPU nowadays, not Windows or any other OS. Immediate Mode has not been used for professional development for many moons.

Anyways, this is from IGN, which should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## ryan90 (Jan 25, 2012)

6x is not enough for the significant differences between ps2 and ps3, or xbox and xbox 360.  This console is apparently not being released till end of next year which leaves plenty of time for components to significantly decrease in price.  I doubt this information


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## epicCreations.or (Jan 25, 2012)

20% more power than Wii U = 120% of Wii U power != 5x (500%) Wii U power

I have my doubts about this whole deal... I thought Microsoft and Sony were going to stick it out a few more years? Well, whatever. I just want good games. I don't really mind too much about the graphics power, as long as I get good games 

EDIT: Wait, was I misreading that title? Is the Wii U supposed to be 5x the 360, making the Xbox 3 6x the 360? Damn that title is horrible. That's gotta get changed -_____-


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

Pinkie232 said:


> Bladexdsl said:
> 
> 
> > maybe more power but look at the graphics power their pretty much the same and that won't change.
> ...


whatever the hell that shit means = 6x the cpu NOT the graphics



Valwin said:


> so next gen everyone will be at the same lever


exactly only thing that will seperate them will be the games


LightyKD said:


> What people fail to realize is that graphics are at a peak right now. Next gen will not be about graphics pushing but about respective experiences represented by the big four (Nintendo, OnLive, Sony, Microsoft).


finally someone who gets it (except for onlive which isn't worldwide. )


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## YayMii (Jan 25, 2012)

FYI if anyone made a console with the same specs as current-gen gaming PCs, it'd have better graphics than the gaming PCs themselves, due to how development works on consoles. Then again barely anyone would buy it because it would alienate console gamers due to its price, as well as keep away the "master race" PC gamers solely because it's a console.

Also, @LightyKD: You forgot about Valve. They're a big influence on PC gaming.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

YayMii said:


> FYI if anyone made a console with the same specs as current-gen gaming PCs,


it would be something like this


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## omgpwn666 (Jan 25, 2012)

Steam makes PC/Mac the ultimate gaming consoles. Plus I can only have modded TF2 servers and modded game files on a computer.


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## YayMii (Jan 25, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> YayMii said:
> 
> 
> > FYI if anyone made a console with the same specs as current-gen gaming PCs,
> ...


That negates the point of the rest of my post since it still runs on Windows.


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## gameandmatch (Jan 25, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> > What?  They're putting in a CPU capable of computing individual AI for 100 people at the same time, yet they're putting in a GPU that struggles to output DiRT2 at 1080p!?!
> ...



Not really since all of Microsoft consoles are better than Nintendo consoles.


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## Nah3DS (Jan 25, 2012)

gameandmatch said:


> Not really since all of Microsoft consoles are better than Nintendo consoles.


all? you mean..... 2


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## NES SNES V.B. N64 G.C. Wii WiiU (Jan 25, 2012)

While 6x the current XBox's power isn't bad, I would have thought more than 20% more than the wiiU


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## Majorami (Jan 25, 2012)

gameandmatch said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Fishaman P said:
> ...


Not necessarily...

Its only better at having a larger game library, online services, Downloadable content, DVD playback, controls, relative price, High definition resolutions, higher-spec hardware, harddrives, better avatar system, voice chat and better user interface...

But other than that the Wii --- oh shit.

I guess in the end games are what really matter, and Wii has them... but their failure to understand and truly embrace THE FUCKING INTERNET is a real bruiser...

Uggh.... Wii Speak.... why ?


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## NES SNES V.B. N64 G.C. Wii WiiU (Jan 25, 2012)

epicCreations.org said:


> 20% more power than Wii U = 120% of Wii U power != 5x (500%) Wii U power
> 
> I have my doubts about this whole deal... I thought Microsoft and Sony were going to stick it out a few more years? Well, whatever. I just want good games. I don't really mind too much about the graphics power, as long as I get good games
> 
> EDIT: Wait, was I misreading that title? Is the Wii U supposed to be 5x the 360, making the Xbox 3 6x the 360? Damn that title is horrible. That's gotta get changed -_____-


How is 120% WiiU power 5x WiiU power?
Microsoft and Sony should stick it out for a while more yet...


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## Midna (Jan 25, 2012)

ARGH. I should have been the one to post this.

IGN seems to have derived the compairison for the Wii U by doing a benchmark test between the Xbox's laughably underpowered 6670 and the lowest model of the RV770 line, the 4730. This is complete speculation on their part, as the RV770 line actually goes all the way up to the 4870. And basically anything in the 4XXX line above the 4730 outstrips the 6670 significantly. After all, if IGN had more definite clues about the Wii U GPU, they wouldn't keep it quiet. They never do.

For the meagre hardware M$ is putting in there, this had better be cheap.
Except it probably won't be, because it'll have built in kinect.

Edit: A note to the uninitiated about AMD numbering schemes:
The first digit is the series it's from, and will tell you how old it is.
The next digit is how powerful it is. 9 is a top of the line enthusiast card, 3 is a cheap budget card, and anything in between is in between.
The next numbers are less significant, but again, the higher the number the more power.
48XX > 6670
57XX > 6670
They skimped out.


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## Majorami (Jan 25, 2012)

I can see a microsoft console come with kinect, but how does one have it built in?

I mean Kinect is a camera. You can't just shove your console in any hole you want if you need the camera to be pointed at you to work. I see that making people mad by not letting them put their console where they want if they want to experience waving around like an idiot in front of a TV.


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## Midna (Jan 25, 2012)

That was speculation on my part, and I didn't mean to imply that it was actually in the console its self.


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## LightyKD (Jan 25, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> Pinkie232 said:
> 
> 
> > Bladexdsl said:
> ...



They (OnLive) will be soon enough. Sure it's taking a while but considering the fact that OnLive it available on Windows, Mac OS, Linux (via Wine), Android, iOS, Google TV and other Web TV's I think it's more than enough exposure for them to build a web base. I have a very close friend who is a game developer (creator of rComplex and co creator of Celestial Mechanica) and we have conversations about this often. Actually our latest pow-wow about the industry was a few hours ago. It's like what Iwata said at E3 2004. Graphics are at a peak. No longer are they necessary to create deep gaming experiences. You have these graphic whores running around talking about how shiny pictures makes their game consoles so much cool and all I can say to that is , "bullshit!'. The only thing that I ask out of my gaming devices (as far as graphics) is that the visuals are pushed to the point of what the console could really do and that devs don't get lazy. The Wii was not a slouch and Nintendo made a perfect decision holding off HD. PS3 and 360 look damn near life like. REMEMBER, we are playing VIDEO GAMES. I dont want my games being too real. That takes away the fun of playing. For all of that I might as well go outside


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

i agree compeltely someone who finally thinks like me 

as for online spreading i doubt it will ever come here cos our internetz is too slowz


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## GreatZimkogway (Jan 25, 2012)

Spoiler






LightyKD said:


> Bladexdsl said:
> 
> 
> > Pinkie232 said:
> ...






I direct you over to the fact that there is a good number of ISPs cap internet usage.  OnLive is not going to be helped by that fact, at all.  And even if I'm fully wrong on it, I can bet the general consensus of it will agree with me.


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## LightyKD (Jan 25, 2012)

From what I have seen lately a good majority of ISP make their minimums between 1.5 mB/s. and 3 mB/s. My former ISP and a very crappy one (Clearwire) has their minimum at 3. Onlive uses a minimum of 2 mB/s. A lot more people can actually use OnLive then they think. The cloud service that's a killer is Gaikai. I can run Onlive on many PC's with game looking extremely well but on Gaikai, they want beefy specs which kills the reason of having the games on the cloud in the first place.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

the way my isp works is i get a quota (60 gb) i can use a month and if i go over that they drop the speeds to 56k speeds.


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## DiscostewSM (Jan 25, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> the way my isp works is i get a quota (60 gb) i can use a month and if i go over that they drop the speeds to 56k speeds.



With 60GB a month, and a minimum of 2Mb/sec to run Onlive, you'd get at most 66.666 hours for the month before they cut your bandwidth. That just for using OnLive, nothing more.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 25, 2012)

that's why it will prob never be available here there are bigger GB plans available but their really expensive. there's also a cheaper plan with 200 gb but only about 5% of the damn country can get it!


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## raulpica (Jan 25, 2012)

It's just 20% more powerful than the WiiU?

Looks like Nintendo can *also* win the "Hardcore Gamers Cake" this gen, then.

I hope so, maybe I'll be able to buy just a single console (which won't break down) next gen.


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## coolness (Jan 25, 2012)

NOOOOO!!! not another GayBox


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## DSGamer64 (Jan 25, 2012)

heartgold said:


> The next Xbox will ship to retailers in late October or early November of next year with six times the processing power of the Xbox 360, sources close to the project have told IGN.
> Following initial reports from tech blogs Fudzilla and SemiAccurate, our sources have confirmed that mass production of the system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99.
> 
> In real terms, the Xbox 720's raw graphics processing power is expected to be six times that of the Xbox 360 and will yield 20-percent greater performance than Nintendo's forthcoming console, the Wii U.
> ...



I find this very hard to believe. The Wii U tech demo's alone showed that it's performance will be easily as powerful as a 6670 graphics chip. People seem to forget that Nintendo has their chips modified, and also that a 20% performance difference is like the difference between a 6670 and a 6850 in terms of AMD cards. The Wii U graphics specifications are unknown since the chip is custom designed, no one knows what the tech specs are and I doubt we will ever find out what they are since AMD seems to be pretty tight lipped about what exactly goes into a dedicated console graphics chip.

That said, when it comes to dedicated computer graphics cards, the 6670 sucks the fat one, it's low end, even my desktop has a faster graphics card.


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## Vigilante (Jan 25, 2012)

Wow only 20% more power?!
Mircosoft won't be stupid to do that,if that is the case then Microsoft can't really brag about graphics to Nintendo meaning less sales for them.


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## Fishaman P (Jan 25, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Well, the Radeon HD 6770 is 4x-5x faster and costs only $20-$40 more.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 25, 2012)

I simplified the title a bit, the chips have been discussed rather thoroughly anyway and its in the main article anyway. The previous title was just a bit jumbled.

But I dunno what console I'll even go for next gen, I'm just thinking of saving my money and sticking to PC gaming for the rest of my gaming life span. Only issue is that I do enjoy the Xbox streamlining in some sense and its ease of local multiplayer. Maybe I'll stick with a Xbox and PC for the next couple of generations, provided Microsoft finally drops that ridiculous Xbox Live Gold crap. I get it, your online system is pretty awesome, but I'm paying like $5/month on top of whatever else I want to subscribe to (Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc) just to play online. At least pull a PSN+ and keep the basic features like online play for everyone but keep premium features like sales and other stuff for "premium" subscribers.

I probably won't be buying the Wii U at all next gen though. That controller is a huge dealbreaker.


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## FireGrey (Jan 25, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I simplified the title a bit, the chips have been discussed rather thoroughly anyway and its in the main article anyway. The previous title was just a bit jumbled.
> 
> But I dunno what console I'll even go for next gen, I'm just thinking of saving my money and sticking to PC gaming for the rest of my gaming life span. Only issue is that I do enjoy the Xbox streamlining in some sense and its ease of local multiplayer. Maybe I'll stick with a Xbox and PC for the next couple of generations, provided Microsoft finally drops that ridiculous Xbox Live Gold crap. I get it, your online system is pretty awesome, but I'm paying like $5/month on top of whatever else I want to subscribe to (Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc) just to play online. At least pull a PSN+ and keep the basic features like online play for everyone but keep premium features like sales and other stuff for "premium" subscribers.
> 
> I probably won't be buying the Wii U at all next gen though. That controller is a huge dealbreaker.


Windows 8 can go on Xbox Live, which might mean it will be able to play Xbox games.
So just build your own powerful computer and you're set for ages.


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## Valwin (Jan 25, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I simplified the title a bit, the chips have been discussed rather thoroughly anyway and its in the main article anyway. The previous title was just a bit jumbled.
> 
> But I dunno what console I'll even go for next gen, I'm just thinking of saving my money and sticking to PC gaming for the rest of my gaming life span. Only issue is that I do enjoy the Xbox streamlining in some sense and its ease of local multiplayer. Maybe I'll stick with a Xbox and PC for the next couple of generations, provided Microsoft finally drops that ridiculous Xbox Live Gold crap. I get it, your online system is pretty awesome, but I'm paying like $5/month on top of whatever else I want to subscribe to (Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc) just to play online. At least pull a PSN+ and keep the basic features like online play for everyone but keep premium features like sales and other stuff for "premium" subscribers.
> 
> I probably won't be buying the Wii U at all next gen though. That controller is a huge dealbreaker.




opposite for me

i am buying it especially for the controller while the other do the same thing Nintendo is the only that seem to try new things


also you made the title more confusing


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## Berthenk (Jan 25, 2012)

Well well...
People, please stop comparing console graphics to PC graphics.
1. Console games are heavily optimized for the hardware they're using.
2. Games on consoles run only the game and the OS, not a shitfuckload of service you won't/don't need anyway.
3. Quoting (translated) .oisyn over at Tweakers.net:


			
				 .oisyn @ Tweakers.net said:
			
		

> About the 3D API: Direct3D9 is supported, but with much shorter lines to the "driver" and with a tonne of features that enable you to directly manage the commands and resources. For instance, not "make a texture" followed by "put this data inside", but "here's my texture data". State changes are many times cheaper, on a console you can have 10 times as much draw calls per frame (says more about the shitty performance of a PC than the good performance of a console).


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## Midna (Jan 25, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > The next Xbox will ship to retailers in late October or early November of next year with six times the processing power of the Xbox 360, sources close to the project have told IGN.
> ...


I mentioned before that the 20% notion is questionable at best, and is likely just IGN taking the worst case scenario out of some old rumours from Game Watch Japan.


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## DiscostewSM (Jan 25, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I simplified the title a bit, the chips have been discussed rather thoroughly anyway and its in the main article anyway. The previous title was just a bit jumbled.
> ...



While I'm still interested in the Wii U, I had recently upgraded some components in my computer like my video card, meaning I can now enjoy some of those games that require more power. I've begun building up my Steam library, and if I upgrade to Win8 and get access to XBox Live, I may end up going more PC for gaming. Still got my 3DS for my handheld gaming fill.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 25, 2012)

No evidence and IGN can be annoying so I will wait for the fact answer from microsoft. I believe that this is the next successor xbox just like Wii is to Wii U.. Not XBOX 720 the next generation. Sony already said that there is no PS4 at all.


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## Gahars (Jan 25, 2012)

Microsoft has been trying to get into the more casual market (With the Kinect and their focus on offering a wide variety of multimedia services through the 360), so I'd guess that they're looking to produce a competitively priced console that can be sold to a mass audience.

It is important to remember that none of this information has been confirmed officially. We're not going to know for sure until, at the very least, E3.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 25, 2012)

Valwin said:


> opposite for me
> 
> i am buying it especially for the controller while the other do the same thing Nintendo is the only that seem to try new things
> 
> ...



Except I don't want this new crap, I'm happy with controllers in their current state and gaming in its current state. And I certainly want less hardware "innovation" like motion controls. It can't compare to actual innovation in gameplay. It's more remarkable to make an innovative game out of a standard control scheme/hardware than make a regular game on "innovative" hardware.


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## Zetta_x (Jan 25, 2012)

If GPU/CPU performance really meant anything to me maybe I would be excited.

Seems that's all new consoles have to offer, better graphics, or use with media that would allow better graphics. How about better games. Come out with a console that gives 6x better games (which shouldn't be too hard given some of the games I have seen this current generation) and then you get my money.


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## epicCreations.or (Jan 25, 2012)

NES SNES V.B. N64 G.C. Wii said:


> epicCreations.org said:
> 
> 
> > 20% more power than Wii U = 120% of Wii U power != 5x (500%) Wii U power
> ...


"!=" means NOT equals. I was stating that 5x is not the same as 20% faster. Doesn't seem to matter now that the title has been changed though.


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## Snailface (Jan 25, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > opposite for me
> ...


I respectfully diagree, I see the WiiU Pad as a combination of proven ideas from the past with a gentle nudge toward innovation rather than a complete wild-ass misfire like the waggle-plagued Wiimote.

I'll explain: First you have the standard and proven dual analog stick w/ control pad setup that has been used in many previous hardware generations -- it's integrated in the WiiU Pad if you notice and seems to be the default input method of the console.

Secondly, the Dual Screen w/ Touch i/o method, which was successful with the DS, has also seen a comeback with the WiiU Pad (with the added benefit of the bottom screen being independantly moveable and accelerometer enhanced.) I really don't see how the motion elements will interfere with sensible game design to the same degree as the Wiimote.

I think developers have learned their lesson and will use WiiU motion controls to enhance game design concepts rather than upend them. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but we'll see when the system hits. I'm excited.


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## darkranboria (Jan 25, 2012)

heartgold said:


> If true, yeah I'm with you and also only 20% better performance over the Wii U!! Now that's shocking.



It's not shocking that the Xbox is 20% better, it's shocking that the Wii you is only 17% worse.
Nintendo stepped up their graphics big time considering it's 5x as powerful as an xbox when their current gen console is only about half as good.


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## Erdnaxela (Jan 25, 2012)

Well, nintendo launched an underpowered console once so everyone think it'll be like that forever :s


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## KingVamp (Jan 26, 2012)

Erdnaxela said:


> Well, nintendo launched an underpowered console once so everyone think it'll be like that forever :s


 

Next-gen system far outperforms current expectations, Develop source claims


> Next-gen system far outperforms current expectations, Develop source claims
> 
> Nintendo’s next generation hardware will be roughly twice as powerful as Microsoft’s current system, the Xbox 360, according to a studio source speaking to Develop.
> The person, communicating anonymously from a studio currently building a Wii U title, said the new Nintendo console could achieve roughly twice the processing and graphical potential of Microsoft’s current generation machine.
> ...


If I'm understanding this right, the wii u was getting stronger since it's announcement.

Side note: Is spell checker not worker or is it something I somehow turn off by accident?


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## NES SNES V.B. N64 G.C. Wii WiiU (Jan 26, 2012)

epicCreations.org said:


> NES SNES V.B. N64 G.C. Wii said:
> 
> 
> > epicCreations.org said:
> ...


OK, there is a symbol, just so you know. ≠


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## LightyKD (Jan 26, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > opposite for me
> ...



One of the few moments I disagree with you so I'm saying, "bullshit!"

I have a hardcore love for gaming but I get turned off by hardcore play-styles. Gaming needs to turn into a medium that everyone can enjoy just as easy as Television, Movies, Books and Music. The GameCube controller was a great start by having all of the buttons on that controller feel different while having close to the same number of buttons found on other controllers. The Wii Remote and Nunchuck took it to the next level by giving you just enough buttons and coupling traditional gameplay with natural movements. While I see the Wii-U tablet as a small step back, I still believe in Nintendo's path of simplifying the entry level for gaming for the mass audience. I don't want to have to waste time thinking about which button is which (I.E. DualShock 3 controller) I just want to have fun with the game. Motion controls are on the right track. Go play some Skyward Sword if you think I'm wrong


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## KingVamp (Jan 26, 2012)

Innovative game+innovative hardware =


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 26, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Innovative game+innovative hardware =



I just haven't really seen good "innovation" with this new hardware outside of like the WM+. I'll admit that games that Red Steel 2 and, yes, Skyward Sword do show a side of gaming that could not exist without the hardware but at this point people are more focused on shoehorning every aspect to new hardware than actually emphasizing on strong points and avoiding weak points.

I'll use Skyward Sword as an example. Sword control for the game is innovative. It's basically impossible with standard controls (well, possible but incredibly shitty). It works well for that. But they kind start shitting things up for putting it on "everything". It's not like they're terrible and break the game (although some of the controls are just downright terrible), but they basically shout "Hey, this is why people don't like motion controls!" to the player.

Pretty much all the Wii ports suffered from this. I could give a pass to gimped features and poor graphics but why would I play a game that forces me to use motion controls which are, in this case, highly inferior? It's the big trade off with "innovative hardware". You get some games that truly are innovative with the hardware but you overwhelmingly get more games that end up getting shit on by the hardware.

Oh, and rail shooters also benefited from the Wii, I'll give it that. Finally kinda revitalized the genre and brought it to the household without having to buy goddamn Duck Hunt guns. HotD Overkill, RE: Darkside/Umbrella Chronicles, Dead Space Extraction, etc etc. I'll at least tip my hat to the Wii for that, thank you.

I hate to bring up the Vita but at least a game like Golden Abyss took it in the right direction. You can play the game entirely with your standard set of buttons or you can use heavy amounts of touch controls. Or you can mix and match to use what's best for what.

The Kinect is probably the biggest victim of this whole issue. It alienated itself so much from traditional controls that there's no way for an effective middle ground. Plus it took away so many basic things that work the best in that situation (like analog sticks) that most of the games you're playing for it are heavily constricted. Like how many Kinect games are on rails or party games? How can you make an effective, say, platformer when you can't even control someone effectively. Now if you could like use a combination of the controller and the Kinect then that'd be cool. Like hold the controller in one hand only for analog control and then map combat or whatever to gestures and stuff.



LightyKD said:


> I have a hardcore love for gaming but I get turned off by hardcore play-styles. Gaming needs to turn into a medium that everyone can enjoy just as easy as Television, Movies, Books and Music. The GameCube controller was a great start by having all of the buttons on that controller feel different while having close to the same number of buttons found on other controllers. The Wii Remote and Nunchuck took it to the next level by giving you just enough buttons and coupling traditional gameplay with natural movements. While I see the Wii-U tablet as a small step back, I still believe in Nintendo's path of simplifying the entry level for gaming for the mass audience. I don't want to have to waste time thinking about which button is which (I.E. DualShock 3 controller) I just want to have fun with the game. Motion controls are on the right track. Go play some Skyward Sword if you think I'm wrong



I don't think gaming needs a "medium". It's like saying they need to make the hoop larger for basketball so everyone can play. It's a hobby that some people like and others don't. Some people simply can't stand or even comprehend playing Magic the Gathering but they don't make the rules simpler for a "broader audience". It's not like gaming was in such decline that it needed a broader audience to succeed. The PS2 was wildly successful. It still sits at the top of the total sales chart without even caring for large amounts of casual appeal. It's remembered pretty much purely for its games that didn't appeal to casuals. Even then, they've had broader appeal for years, it's called "easy mode".

I also don't think the Wii really brought casual appeal to the people. It was advertised well so many people got it but I know families who wouldn't touch an Xbox that own a Wii and lemme say, it's an effective dust magnet. Hell it's not even remembered for its "casual" games. Go up to any Wii diehard and ask them what good games are for the system and they'll say "Super Mario Galaxy and its sequel, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Donkey Kong Country Returns, etc". Games that only have casual appeal in their bright graphics and their ineffective "Super Guide" system which I still believe is completely useless. What fun is it to suck at a game so bad that you basically have someone do it for you? It's not like a puzzle where you can figure out what goes where by watching them play it, it's a game based on skill. You can't just learn to have quicker reaction times by watching someone good do the level.

tl;dr: Innovative hardware is only good if people realize it's not good for everything and use it towards actual innovation... Which all depends on the software so innovative hardware is only innovative because of software. So innovative software > innovative hardware by a hundred times.


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## LightyKD (Jan 26, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > Innovative game+innovative hardware =
> ...




I disagree that gaming is simply a hobby. It's a form of entertainment and one that has beaten movies on multiple occasions. As a form of entertainment it is up to developers and hardware manufacturers to create experiences that everyone can get into. As much as motion control is hated by the so called "hardcore" crowd, it has a place in gaming. In regards to the Wii-U, the tablet controller has a place in Nintendo's strategy. I'm surprised that nobody has realized that Nintendo is stepping back into the "family computing" arena (biggest example trying to get iOS devs to bring software to the Wii-U tablet) while keeping their feet firmly on their gaming base. Traditional controllers will always have their place with gaming's base but things like touch screens, track pads, Kinect, PlayStation Move an Wii Remote Plus are important to the future of the industry.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 26, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> I disagree that gaming is simply a hobby. It's a form of entertainment and one that has beaten movies on multiple occasions. As a form of entertainment it is up to developers and hardware manufacturers to create experiences that everyone can get into. As much as motion control is hated by the so called "hardcore" crowd, it has a place in gaming. In regards to the Wii-U, the tablet controller has a place in Nintendo's strategy. I'm surprised that nobody has realized that Nintendo is stepping back into the "family computing" arena (biggest example trying to get iOS devs to bring software to the Wii-U tablet) while keeping their feet firmly on their gaming base. Traditional controllers will always have their place with gaming's base but things like touch screens, track pads, Kinect, PlayStation Move an Wii Remote Plus are important to the future of the industry.



Hobbies are like word for word "forms of entertainment". It's just kinda fact that gaming is a hobby. It doesn't demean it or anything, it's just what it is.

And I find going all out on casual appeal and core appeal is kinda like having two feet on two different pillars that are slowly moving apart. In the end you'll just end up with a split nutsack and no one will be happy. Core devs don't want to develop for a system with too much casual appeal. Visa versa with casual devs. Besides, casual gaming seems to be moving away from buying $50 games to buying $1 app games. That's something Nintendo certainly won't be able to cover.


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## LightyKD (Jan 26, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree that gaming is simply a hobby. It's a form of entertainment and one that has beaten movies on multiple occasions. As a form of entertainment it is up to developers and hardware manufacturers to create experiences that everyone can get into. As much as motion control is hated by the so called "hardcore" crowd, it has a place in gaming. In regards to the Wii-U, the tablet controller has a place in Nintendo's strategy. I'm surprised that nobody has realized that Nintendo is stepping back into the "family computing" arena (biggest example trying to get iOS devs to bring software to the Wii-U tablet) while keeping their feet firmly on their gaming base. Traditional controllers will always have their place with gaming's base but things like touch screens, track pads, Kinect, PlayStation Move an Wii Remote Plus are important to the future of the industry.
> ...




Your post just made me say "ouch!" XP


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