# Windows 8.1 Announced.



## Rydian (May 15, 2013)

> More importantly, the update -- which reportedly will allow users to boot to desktop, return some semblance of the Start button (albeit one that dumps users into Metro), and include better mouse support in Metro -- will be offered for free to Windows 8 customers.  The update will be distributed via the Windows Store.



People said it was coming and it's already been discussed, so there's not much to type (other than "suck it naysayers!" or whatever), it's just official now.





Source


----------



## Pong20302000 (May 15, 2013)

considering 4 beta builds had already leaked when I last checked LOL


----------



## chartube12 (May 15, 2013)

Yeah blue was leaked nearly a month ago.


----------



## WiiUBricker (May 15, 2013)

So the start button does nothing but launching the metro page? Meh, and here I thought I can ditch Classic Shell.


----------



## Ergo (May 15, 2013)

So...I'll be sticking with Pokki, then.


----------



## Flame (May 15, 2013)

I like how M$ is forcing metro, down our throats. Maybe I should force something of mine down other people throats.


----------



## chartube12 (May 15, 2013)

I don't mind the start screen at all. I barely use it. The desktop is still there and works just like it has since windows 3.1. People don't seem to get that. That's why the update codenamed blue is making the desktop screen the default when loading windows 8. People just love to hate change. The thing is a ton of the hate is coming from linux snobs who bashed windows for years for having the start menu. God I hate those hypocrites a lot!


----------



## Rydian (May 15, 2013)

Flame said:


> I like how M$ is forcing metro, down our throats. Maybe I should force something of mine down other people throats.


Next up in Flame news: History Channel stops showing hunting shows on prime time because of the blood, subsequently Flame complains about bloody shows on the History Channel being forced down our throats.


----------



## Flame (May 15, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Next up in Flame news: History Channel stops showing hunting shows on prime time because of the blood, subsequently Flame complains about bloody shows on the History Channel being forced down our throats.


----------



## Devin (May 15, 2013)

Which reminds me to download Start8.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

Meh. That is all. Unless someone can convince me why Windows 8 is better than Windows 7 and doesn't have device driver compatibility issues....

Windows 7 Pro 64-bit has been stable. Never had a BSOD, never had drivers crashing, never had it randomly reboot on me. Works better than XP ever did.



Flame said:


> I like how M$ is forcing metro, down our throats. Maybe I should force something of mine down other people throats.


There are ways around that UI.


----------



## Rizsparky (May 15, 2013)

YES! dump to desktop is a godsend..


----------



## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

At least I wouldn't have to pay for Windows 8. Thank goodness for having an MSDN license.


----------



## Ritsuki (May 15, 2013)

Nice. No release date?


----------



## Arras (May 15, 2013)

"Distributed via the Windows Store"
Nooo, the Windows Store is horribly broken for me and refuses to install stuff 95% of the time. I'm guessing it's related to me using some pre-consumer version, but still.


----------



## wolffangalchemist (May 15, 2013)

I remember a time when Microsoft didn't make Windows broken at each new release..... oh wait....


----------



## marcus134 (May 15, 2013)

I never thought i'd see the day when microsoft had to





> include better mouse support


in their desktop OS


----------



## Rayder (May 15, 2013)

I'm tired of just about every aspect of the console, computer and video entertainment industry.  The way they force unwanted methods on us all the time now and completely eliminate the old ways entirely.  They've gone full retard and I'm sick of it. They're greed and arrogance knows no bounds.  Frankly, it disgusts me.

I'm now practicing what everyone always preaches but never actually practices themselves.  I'm speaking with my wallet and not buying into the BS any longer.  I think current Win8, WiiU and Vita sales echo my feelings on the matter. 

At some point, everyone reaches the limits of tolerance.  I have reached mine and I think many others have as well.   Not everyone is a sheep to be fleeced.  Not everyone is a sucker who tolerates being manipulated into things they don't really want or need. 

Money talks and bullshit walks. I'm calling bullshit on the industry and I'm walking.


----------



## Skelletonike (May 15, 2013)

People may dislike Windows 8, personally I like it. Things change, if anyone thinks computers will always be the same, they're wrong because they will change, doesn't matter if you like the changes or not, things need to change eventually, willingly of forcibly. z.z


----------



## Deleted-236924 (May 15, 2013)

Speaking of Windows 8!

Does anybody else run Windows 8 64-bits and can get those three files:

-themeui.dll (in system32)
-uxtheme.dll (in system32)
-uxinit.dll (in system32)

They have to be unpatched (The clean files you get from a clean installation of Windows 8)
Then could you put these in a .zip file and send them to me?
The reason for this is that UltraUX Theme Patcher patches those three files to allow usage of many custom themes that couldn't work otherwise.
However, there is a Windows update that completely messes up said files when installed, which leaves Windows unable to boot (screen flashes on and off, doesn't get anywhere.)

UltraUX Theme Patcher is supposed to backup those three files when you install it so that you can restore the backups when you want to uninstall it.
Except that (obviously!) those files get messed up when backed up, so uninstalling just causes the same problem.

I'm going to attempt stuff to uninstall that properly (advice, never install it), but if nothing works, it'd be pretty cool if someone had those.

(I had found two other places where people had uploaded those three dll's so that people could fix the problem, but sure enough the files had been removed.)


----------



## wolffangalchemist (May 15, 2013)

Skelletonike said:


> Things change, if anyone thinks computers will always be the same, they're wrong because they will change, doesn't matter if you like the changes or not, things need to change eventually, willingly of forcibly. z.z


Now not that Windows is or has always been perfect in all ways, but as far a user interfaces go a saying comes to mind.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I didn't like Unity on Ubuntu when it came around and I certainty don't like Metro, as far as touchscreen handheld devices go these are good ideas but they just don't do as well on a desktop in my opinion.


----------



## MushGuy (May 15, 2013)

_return some semblance of the Start button *(albeit one that dumps users into Metro)*_

Well that sucks.


----------



## ForteGospel (May 15, 2013)

Rayder said:


> I'm tired of just about every aspect of the console, computer and video entertainment industry. The way they force unwanted methods on us all the time now and completely eliminate the old ways entirely. They've gone full retard and I'm sick of it. They're greed and arrogance knows no bounds. Frankly, it disgusts me.
> 
> I'm now practicing what everyone always preaches but never actually practices themselves. I'm speaking with my wallet and not buying into the BS any longer. I think current Win8, WiiU and Vita sales echo my feelings on the matter.
> 
> ...


imo you are just being anti...

going from office 2003 to 2007 was hard as hell, everything was changed and nothing was in the same place... today I can hardly use office 2003...

going from xp to 7 (skipped vista, but is the same source) was hard as hell but if I use xp today I
 feel like a limb is missing.

animals that don't get accustomed to climate changes just disappear, same for humans with technology...


----------



## Taleweaver (May 15, 2013)

Must be a slow news day.

So microsoft is announcing the return of the start button? Whoop-di-doo. I doubt it's going to make a difference in sales. Those still on 7 will just remain there. Those on 8...perhaps it's me, but why the hell haven't they already installed a third party start menu alternative if they wanted it? I just tried it for half a day and already knew that if I was to keep using it, it'd HAVE to have something like that.


----------



## Skelletonike (May 15, 2013)

Personally I have no need for a start button, I just need to press the windows button and I have everything I need there. z.z


----------



## Chary (May 15, 2013)

And thus, a collective, "meh" was said amongst the community.


----------



## The Milkman (May 15, 2013)

You know, some times I think people just jump on to a hate-train without even reading the ticket.


----------



## Ericthegreat (May 15, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> Must be a slow news day.
> 
> So microsoft is announcing the return of the start button? Whoop-di-doo. I doubt it's going to make a difference in sales. Those still on 7 will just remain there. Those on 8...perhaps it's me, but why the hell haven't they already installed a third party start menu alternative if they wanted it? I just tried it for half a day and already knew that if I was to keep using it, it'd HAVE to have something like that.


I agree, they should just add a option for a start menu and be done with it.


----------



## The Milkman (May 15, 2013)

Ericthegreat said:


> I agree, they should just add a option for a start menu and be done with it.


 
Ok then, this thread was about Salmon season starting up then I presume?


----------



## The Milkman (May 16, 2013)

Ericthegreat said:


> Yes Fancy pink salmon to be exact: Snip


 
Good rebuttal sire!

But what I ment is that thats exactly what they are doing, you cant blame them for wanting to get it all done in one swoop rather then update each part at a different time.


----------



## RedCoreZero (May 16, 2013)

You mean you're basically making windows 7 all over again.


----------



## The Milkman (May 16, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> You mean you're basically making windows 7 all over again.


 
> Add Metro, everyone cries

> Add Start button that everyones crying about, "So, its just Windows 7 then?"

GG sir.


----------



## Ericthegreat (May 16, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> You mean you're basically making windows 7 all over again.


Pretty much.


----------



## Pleng (May 16, 2013)

Skelletonike said:


> Personally I have no need for a start button, I just need to press the windows button and I have everything I need there. z.z


 
While I generally agree with that sentiment, a Start button is REALLY useful when accessing a machine via LogMeIn, TeamViewer etc...


----------



## The Milkman (May 16, 2013)

Pleng said:


> While I generally agree with that sentiment, a Start button is REALLY useful when accessing a machine via LogMeIn, TeamViewer etc...


 
What do you mean by that? 

Do you mean via computer to computer or from something like a phone or tablet?


----------



## dickfour (May 16, 2013)

Just looking at metro makes me shudder. I'm sticking with 7 and if I ever need to upgrade to 8 I'll use something like classic shell. As for Ubuntu I'm sticking with lubuntu and avoiding unity like the plague


----------



## Bladexdsl (May 16, 2013)

windows 7 still working great for me


----------



## joelv6 (May 16, 2013)

what do they mean by free???

are they saying that they are going to charge for future updates????


----------



## techboy (May 16, 2013)

I was actually considering using 8 after 8.1 came out, until I found out that they _still _refuse to put the start menu back. The stupid button wasn't what people complained about. It was the menu it opened that people want back.

Apparently they somehow completely missed that. Most people understand that when a product fails, you fix the biggest complaints. MS's product failed, so they decide "We'll fix everything except the biggest complaints". WTF?

8 was bad enough that OEMs are selling pre-downgraded PCs and including their own start menus, enterprises simply rejected the product entirely, and the downgrade business for repair shops is booming.

Let's just say I won't be surprised when 8.1 fails as hard as 8 did. 
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"...MS says: "It's broke, let's not fix it anyway."

Guess I'll be moving to 7 instead in a few weeks. Gotta get off XP...


----------



## MushGuy (May 16, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> > Add Metro, everyone cries
> 
> > Add Start button that everyones crying about, "So, its just Windows 7 then?"
> 
> GG sir.


You obviously didn't read the "dump to Metro instead of actual Start Menu" part. It's not back to 7, just old crappy 8.


----------



## DrOctapu (May 16, 2013)

Sticking with Ubuntu until Windows 9.


----------



## Skelletonike (May 16, 2013)

Currently at the place I'm having the internship all the Pc's have windows 8 and programs like inventor seem to work better on it.
Windows xp is way outdated, why do people still use it anyway (well, some programs need windows xp just like some need windows 3.1)


----------



## Kouen Hasuki (May 16, 2013)

I'm sticking with 7 as my main OS for now, I dont feel like paying for 8 when I am happy with 7


----------



## FAST6191 (May 16, 2013)

Skelletonike said:


> Windows xp is way outdated, why do people still use it anyway (well, some programs need windows xp just like some need windows 3.1)



Because without any real hassle it goes on the internet, plays videos/music, manages phones/media players and such like, types documents/office stuff, can open pictures from a camera and fires things across to the printer which is all 90% of people do? That and a lot of stuff is coded badly and needs Windows XP but you already mentioned that.


----------



## raulpica (May 16, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Because without any real hassle it goes on the internet, plays videos/music, manages phones/media players and such like, types documents/office stuff, can open pictures from a camera and fires things across to the printer which is all 90% of people do? That and a lot of stuff is coded badly and needs Windows XP but you already mentioned that.


XP is just a malware magnet. There are known exploits in it EVERYWHERE.

I see craploads of PCs with 4GBs of RAM on them having WinXP which just uses 3GBs (wasting one perfectly good GB of RAM) just because "hurr, but XP roxxx". Then they get their PC invaded by malware and viruses and have to re-format once a month.

Everybody should drop it right NOW. (except computers that can't run Win7)


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

raulpica said:


> I see craploads of PCs with 4GBs of RAM on them having WinXP which just uses 3GBs (wasting one perfectly good GB of RAM) just because "hurr, but XP roxxx". Then they get their PC invaded by malware and viruses and have to re-format once a month


And where do you see these resource sucking PC's?  I never even had Vista go over 2.5GB.


----------



## raulpica (May 16, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> And where do you see these resource sucking PC's? I never even had Vista go over 2.5GB.


People opening 25 tabs in Firefox while listening to music on Youtube


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

raulpica said:


> People opening 25 tabs in Firefox while listening to music on Youtube


So that's not really XP.  Any OS would do that long before reaching 25 tabs.


----------



## raulpica (May 16, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> So that's not really XP. Any OS would do that long before reaching 25 tabs.


Meh, still not a good reason to stay on an insecure, old, resource-wasting OS.


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

raulpica said:


> Meh, still not a good reason to stay on an insecure, old, resource-wasting OS.


Honestly, I liked Vista *POST-SP1** a lot, and would probably take that over XP now.

*Don't go flaming me, I know Vista was terrible when it came out, but if you didn't see the huge improvement after SP1 then you've got problems


----------



## Arras (May 16, 2013)

DrOctapu said:


> Sticking with Ubuntu until Windows 9.


IIRC the later versions of Ubuntu have a full screen start menu as well...


----------



## Tigran (May 16, 2013)

And history repeats itself once again..


Seriously.. Ths is the -same- thing every new release... 3.1 to 95.. 95 to XP, XP to Vista, Or Xp to 7... same damn shit... different names.

I could probably go find an article from 95 to XP and copy it word for word, except change it to 7 and 8... and it would be the exact same as you see in any new article.


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

Tigran said:


> And history repeats itself once again..
> 
> 
> Seriously.. Ths is the -same- thing every new release... 3.1 to 95.. 95 to XP, XP to Vista, Or Xp to 7... same damn shit... different names.
> ...


Example of when this happened before please?  In the past it's always been up to hacks and third party apps to restore old functionality.


PS: You missed quite a few releases, lol.


----------



## Minox (May 16, 2013)

Arras said:


> IIRC the later versions of Ubuntu have a full screen start menu as well...


Switching desktop manager in Ubuntu is a whole lot easier than in Windows though.


----------



## raulpica (May 16, 2013)

Tigran said:


> And history repeats itself once again..
> 
> 
> Seriously.. Ths is the -same- thing every new release... 3.1 to 95.. 95 to XP, XP to Vista, Or Xp to 7... same damn shit... different names.
> ...


Indeed, I remember when first switching from 98 to XP, BSODs everywhere. I didn't actually touch XP before SP1, IIRC.


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

raulpica said:


> Indeed, I remember when first switching from 98 to XP, BSODs everywhere. I didn't actually touch XP before SP1, IIRC.


That's got nothing to do with the article though.  I don't think he even read it.


----------



## raulpica (May 16, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> That's got nothing to do with the article though. I don't think he even read it.


Well, yeah. True. But it's kinda on-topic since he's talking about how everyone trashes a new OS just because it's the new one (which is terribly on-topic, reading the reactions in the past three pages).


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

raulpica said:


> Well, yeah. True. But it's kinda on-topic since he's talking about how everyone trashes a new OS just because it's the new one (which is terribly on-topic, reading the reactions in the past three pages).


He said he could find an old article, swap the Windows versions, and match it up word for word.


----------



## shakirmoledina (May 16, 2013)

or maybe people want a trio-os (trios ?) w/ windows, linux and android?


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

shakirmoledina said:


> or maybe people want a trio-os (trios ?) w/ windows, linux and android?


Everybody loves a threesome.


----------



## Kouen Hasuki (May 16, 2013)

Skelletonike said:


> Currently at the place I'm having the internship all the Pc's have windows 8 and programs like inventor seem to work better on it.
> Windows xp is way outdated, why do people still use it anyway (well, some programs need windows xp just like some need windows 3.1)


Not everything supports Vista and above, old games, apps and devices may not have 64 bit drivers or hell even 32 bit ones, some drivers you can get away with compatibility mode but sometimes that leads to BSOD's 

And what about older games some do not work well / at all on Vista / 7 / 8

I have a laptop as a dedicated XP machine, its specs are not great but the machine cost me almost nothing (1 CPU and 1 Cover) and is more than enough for Non Vista+ stuff (Dell Latitude 120L: Pentium M 740 1.7GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, 80GB 4200RPM HDD, Intel GMA900)


----------



## Pleng (May 16, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Do you mean via computer to computer or from something like a phone or tablet?


 
Via computer to computer. In LogMeIn/TeamViewer pressing start on the keyboard opens the start menu on the *host* machine. So opening the start menu on the guest machine, if it's Win8, is a bit of a pain.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 16, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Everybody loves a threesome.



Maybe when I was younger but today I am not sure I have time and energy required to master three complex, ever changing sets of needs, shortcomings and things that need massaging to be at their best.


----------



## chartube12 (May 16, 2013)

Minox said:


> Switching desktop manager in Ubuntu is a whole lot easier than in Windows though.


 
Are you high?! It is one freakin icon to switch over to the desktop!


----------



## Minox (May 16, 2013)

chartube12 said:


> Are you high?! It is one freakin icon to switch over to the desktop!


I'm not talking about the process of clicking a button to get to a different part of the UI. I'm referring to the fact that you can easily replace the Unity desktop environment in Ubuntu with whatever flavor of desktop environment you'd want to use. Cinnamon, KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE, MATE.. There's more than just a few alternative desktop environments available for linux.


----------



## Shuny (May 16, 2013)

DrOctapu said:


> Sticking with Ubuntu until Windows 9.


Wow. I'd rather install Windows Me than Ubuntu.

Anyway this new version seems great. Windows 8 is awesome performance-wise but I have to agree with all the comments about the Metro interface. Windows 8.1 will probably be a great OS.


----------



## RedCoreZero (May 16, 2013)

Oh,you mean buy another Windows 7 for Direct x 11+ 

Tell me how great the os is.


----------



## The Milkman (May 16, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> Oh,you mean buy another Windows 7 for Direct x 11+
> 
> Tell me how great the os is.



Nobody ever said you should switch. 

And do you think any new Direct Xs are going to be on Win 7, not only that but next-gen is coming, PC games might start actually using DX 11 seeing the new system specs.



MushGuy said:


> You obviously didn't read the "dump to Metro instead of actual Start Menu" part. It's not back to 7, just old crappy 8.



I got a better idea, how about you read the post I quoted rather then point out that I "obviously" didn't read.


----------



## The Catboy (May 16, 2013)

DrOctapu said:


> Sticking with Ubuntu until Windows 9.


I would like to suggest getting something better. Ubuntu's recent update to Unity is rather creepy actually. I actually moved to Gentoo in recent year because Fedora and Ubuntu have both gone downhill drastically.

On topic...sorry not a Windows fan or user, so this really doesn't effect me that much.


----------



## WiiUBricker (May 16, 2013)

techboy said:


> I was actually considering using 8 after 8.1 came out, until I found out that they _still _refuse to put the start menu back. The stupid button wasn't what people complained about. It was the menu it opened that people want back.
> 
> Apparently they somehow completely missed that. Most people understand that when a product fails, you fix the biggest complaints. MS's product failed, so they decide "We'll fix everything except the biggest complaints". WTF?
> 
> ...


You can fix all Win 8 Problems yourself. Install this and your Win 8 will be a better Win 7.


----------



## The Milkman (May 16, 2013)

WiiUBricker said:


> You can fix all Win 8 Problems yourself. Install this and your Win 8 will be a better Win 7.


 
People are too lazy to download anything that will actually help them, they would rather jump on the hate-train and rail-road right off a cliff.


----------



## Rydian (May 16, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> People are too lazy to download anything that will actually help them, they would rather jump on the hate-train and rail-road right off a cliff.


I'm in the group that says if you _need_ to do modifications to a product to make it _usable_, there's a problem with the product.


----------



## The Milkman (May 16, 2013)

Rydian said:


> I'm in the group that says if you _need_ to do modifications to a product to make it _usable_, there's a problem with the product.


 
Do you use IE to browse the internet? If IE doesnt meet your standards does that mean your entire machine is unusable? No, you download another web browser that does meet your needs. 

If you dont like how Metro works, that doesnt make it unusable, that means it doesnt meet your needs or standards. That doesnt mean everyone finds it unusable, or that its unusable at all.

All hes saying is if whats there doesnt work for you, you can go and get something that does. In fact, isnt that the whole reason programming exists in general?


----------



## Rydian (May 17, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Do you use IE to browse the internet? If IE doesnt meet your standards does that mean your entire machine is unusable? No, you download another web browser that does meet your needs.
> 
> If you dont like how Metro works, that doesnt make it unusable, that means it doesnt meet your needs or standards. That doesnt mean everyone finds it unusable, or that its unusable at all.
> 
> All hes saying is if whats there doesnt work for you, you can go and get something that does. In fact, isnt that the whole reason programming exists in general?


This is one of the reasons people go with Linux, in fact different distros thrive off of the variety in what people need.

My point being that if you use version X of a product, then X+1 comes out and doesn't meet your needs, then it doesn't meet your needs and you have the right to considered it an inferior product when you're making your next purchasing decision.


----------



## The Milkman (May 17, 2013)

Rydian said:


> This is one of the reasons people go with Linux, in fact different distros thrive off of the variety in what people need.
> 
> My point being that if you use version X of a product, then X+1 comes out and doesn't meet your needs, then it doesn't meet your needs and you have the right to considered it an inferior product when you're making your next purchasing decision.


 
I agree with the Linux part, I hate Ubuntu, but I found Debian quite neat and I like using so I have it dual booted.

Concerning your other point, nobody is saying buy something you don't want. Hell, I wouldn't have bought Win 8 if it didn't come with my PC (that's really more of me being cheap though ) but I also sure as hell didn't want to use XP or pirated version of 7 (Stupid genuine advantage :/)

my whole point is though, after using it for extended periods of time (and coming from years of using XP and 7 also) it's honestly not as broken as people make it seem, and what is considered broken is easily fixed.

Hence,



The Milkman said:


> People are too lazy to download anything that will actually help them, they would rather jump on the hate-train and rail-road right off a cliff.


 
If anything, people should be complaining about actual problems with the OS, like how you cant shut-down while using Fast-boot (or UEFEI mode)


----------



## Rydian (May 17, 2013)

That's not good for business, though (as the majority of your customers have no clue how to do any of that), which is why Microsoft is trying to fix it themselves by incorporating some popular changes.


----------



## The Milkman (May 17, 2013)

Rydian said:


> That's not good for business, though (as the majority of your customers have no clue how to do any of that), which is why Microsoft is trying to fix it themselves by incorporating some popular changes.


 
Great point actually, but when I say people, I mean techies like us. If you know the difference between a browser and search engine, chances are you not looking for a Start menu replacement is just being stubborn.

People like them probably use things like tablets or smartphones more often then a computer anyway.


----------



## techboy (May 17, 2013)

WiiUBricker said:


> You can fix all Win 8 Problems yourself. Install this and your Win 8 will be a better Win 7.


I've used it, as well as many other shell modifications and start menu replacements. I can add a pile of third party stuff to make 8 look like 7...or just use 7.

The point is that the product is broken by design. If properly made, it would include the features that these fixes provide as native functionality. This is what MS is trying to accomplish by implementing changes in 8.1. The only problem is they're refusing to make the one change that everyone wants...


----------



## The Milkman (May 17, 2013)

techboy said:


> I've used it, as well as many other shell modifications and start menu replacements. I can add a pile of third party stuff to make 8 look like 7...or just use 7.
> 
> The point is that the product is broken by design. If properly made, it would include the features that these fixes provide as native functionality. This is what MS is trying to accomplish by implementing changes in 8.1. The only problem is they're refusing to make the one change that everyone wants...


 
Add the start menu that's already there?


----------



## WiiUBricker (May 17, 2013)

techboy said:


> I've used it, as well as many other shell modifications and start menu replacements. I can add a pile of third party stuff to make 8 look like 7...or just use 7.


Of course you can use just Win 7, but you will miss out on Win 8's enhancements if you do this. Or you can use Win 8 with classic shell and ??? profit!


----------



## Sop (May 17, 2013)

Rydian said:


> People said it was coming and it's already been discussed, so there's not much to type (other than "suck it naysayers!" or whatever), it's just official now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That feel when my Windows 8 is broken or something and won't let me connect to the Windows store.


----------



## techboy (May 17, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Add the start menu that's already there?


You mean MS's idea of one that reduced my productivity? I put up with 8 for a month on a test machine. Still never got used to it.



WiiUBricker said:


> Of course you can use just Win 7, but you will miss out on Win 8's enhancements if you do this. Or you can use Win 8 with classic shell and ??? profit!


I know, but even with a start menu a lot of stuff is still different.

I was looking online and found a program that lets me install the real Win7 shell though...http://microsoft-news.com/ex7forw8-windows-7-explorer-for-windows-8-hack/ Maybe I'll give that a shot at some point.


----------



## YayMii (May 17, 2013)

I dislike how people hate on the 'lack' of a Start menu when the thing they call the 'Metro screen' is just a new version of it.
Personally I've been using Windows 8 since August 2012, and after getting used to it, I refuse to go back. I don't even use any Metro apps. Windows 8 boots faster, runs lighter, and has useful features in the new Explorer that I used to need external programs to do (such as ISO mounting).


----------



## The Milkman (May 17, 2013)

techboy said:


> You mean MS's idea of one that reduced my productivity? I put up with 8 for a month on a test machine. Still never got used to it.


 
How exactly did it reduce your productivity? What do you use your Start Menu for? Its essesntially the exact same thing, it just has bigger buttons and built in sorting.


----------



## techboy (May 18, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> How exactly did it reduce your productivity? What do you use your Start Menu for? Its essesntially the exact same thing, it just has bigger buttons and built in sorting.


I open a lot of different programs for the stuff I do and for software testing...and frequently, since at least 2 of them exit every time they finish. I may use my start menu well over 10 times an hour in some cases...

The fact that currently running desktop tasks get hidden when the start screen is opened is my biggest complaint, the second being how it's used. I had to scroll through long lists or type names (often full ones, since many start with the same thing) to find stuff...I just know where it is in a hierarchical menu.

The menu isn't the only thing that bothered me though...there was also the constant frustration from stuff like hotspot corners that I didn't mean to activate, remembering gestures instead of just having a button that does it, etc.

It's not so much that 8 is "bad" in general, it's just not conducive to me being productive, even after spending time with it. The fact that MS takes away my ability to be productive and instead tries to focus on making my PC into what is basically a toy is what makes me mad.


----------



## RedCoreZero (May 18, 2013)

WiiUBricker said:


> Of course you can use just Win 7, but you will miss out on Win 8's enhancements if you do this. Or you can use Win 8 with classic shell and ??? profit!


I heard long before 8 released, *microsoft is going to make 9 in two years.


----------

