# The GBAtemp Fitness club



## ShadowSoldier (May 2, 2013)

So I sorta got into running. I'm enjoying it and I feel good that I'm getting in shape.

And I figured hey, before I used to be lazy, overweight and I'm too lazy to go run by myself and such and have no motivation or anyone to share my results with.

But then I downloaded an app on the Play Store called Runtastic (There's also a pro version). And it's cool. It tells you the time you've been exercising, the distance you've been running and whatnot, and you can upload it to share with people, like on Twitter or something.


Anyways, I figured if there's anyone here who's too lazy to exercise or whatever, we should all be a group or something, compare results, share music playlists to exercise to, set up challenges for one another or something, give advice, exercise tips.

Anybody up for that?


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## Sicklyboy (May 2, 2013)

I've got Runtastic Pro and have never used it.

I plan to start working out again once this semester at college is over.  Too much shit to do right now.  I'd be down for posting progress towards weight goals and shit like that but I don't typically get very social with working out, short of going to the gym with my dad.


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## Sop (May 2, 2013)

You know what they say, weight loss is 90% diet and only 10% exercise.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 2, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> I've got Runtastic Pro and have never used it.
> 
> I plan to start working out again once this semester at college is over. Too much shit to do right now. I'd be down for posting progress towards weight goals and shit like that but I don't typically get very social with working out, short of going to the gym with my dad.


 
I don't go to the gym. I just run around the park here. And for weights I have a bunch of weights and shit too. I tried getting the runtastic pro.apk to work on my phone, it installed and everything but it wasn't recording anything. I don't know why, it bummed me out. So I just went back to the regular runtastic.


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## nukeboy95 (May 2, 2013)

id work out but every time i lift weights i _wait_


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## Rizsparky (May 2, 2013)

Sop said:


> You know what they say, weight loss is 90% diet and only 10% exercise.


This x1000, when I lost weight I ran for general health, not to increase my calorie deficit.


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## Gahars (May 2, 2013)

I enjoy running, but I don't want to ruin muh gainz, so I'll pass on the app. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

As for me, I've been using a modified version of Starting Strength. It's a pretty good program, if pretty tough. I'd recommend it to anyone interested in starting up weightlifting at the gym.


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## J-Machine (May 2, 2013)

I had always been active up till the end of my first year of college as up until then my education demanded I spend time in the gym and the close proximity to everything in my life made me to almost exclusively walk about an hour a day or more on top of it. As soon as that ended however... It seems I got too comfortable with going with the flow to realize I worked out out of convenience and not routine. I think making a group here would be a great way to get fitness to be an active part of my life again and am more than willing to help out and contribute with all y'all.

Not a fan of running though. I think I'll learn how to ride a bike to get my cardio since I don't own an elliptical. Low impact for the win.

Also to the guy saying weight loss is only 10% exercise... Well of course that is true but many seem to forget that muscle weighs more than fat and having weight loss as a goal and not an indicator of meeting one is dangerous in the long run unless you are obese as after loosing weight, most start gaining more as their muscles become more defined. I always say change your diet only if exercise alone isn't helping you slim down after 3-4 months. Oh and screw multigrains. you shouldn't be relying on carbs enough to eat what is deemed "the healthier stuff" anyways.


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## Ethevion (May 2, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I enjoy running, but I don't want to ruin muh gainz, so I'll pass on the app. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
> 
> As for me, I've been using a modified version of Starting Strength. It's a pretty good program, if pretty tough. I'd recommend it to anyone interested in starting up weightlifting at the gym.


It's beach season, time to get shredded. Ya you'll lose some gains, but the 6 pack is what the ladies really like.

As for me joining this club, I'll have to decline. I am unfortunately an ectomorph so I lose weight really quickly so I only run twice a week. I don't mind giving advice and tips though.


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## J-Machine (May 2, 2013)

Sagat said:


> It's beach season, time to get shredded. Ya you'll lose some gains, but the 6 pack is what the ladies really like.
> 
> As for me joining this club, I'll have to decline. I am unfortunately an ectomorph so I lose weight really quickly so I only run twice a week. I don't mind giving advice and tips though.


I'm the same but I found reducing my gluten intake, removing added sugar and having a cheat day for both, mixed in with higher protein and fat has really made a difference and I went from a perpetual 112 to a allright 125 in the past three months. Whenever I go away from that diet though I'll see as much as a 5 pound loss within the first two weeks. I'm hoping getting back to the gym will bring me back to my glory days of 137 though.

but yeah smart eating goes a long way when you balance the speed in which your calories are consumed (proteins and fats vary from fast to slow burning unlike carbs which are almost exclusively fast and are always burned first which is why cutting them is what slims people down and not cutting meats or fats tend to, at least not near as quickly or long term.


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## Ethevion (May 2, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> I'm the same but I found reducing my gluten intake, removing added sugar and having a cheat day for both, mixed in with higher protein and fat has really made a difference and I went from a perpetual 112 to a allright 125 in the past three months. Whenever I go away from that diet though I'll see as much as a 5 pound loss within the first two weeks. I'm hoping getting back to the gym will bring me back to my glory days of 137 though.
> 
> but yeah smart eating goes a long way when you balance the speed in which your calories are consumed (proteins and fats vary from fast to slow burning unlike carbs which are almost exclusively fast and are always burned first which is why cutting them is what slims people down and not cutting meats or fats tend to, at least not near as quickly or long term.


I can't say if you're too light or not, because I don't know your age or height, but if you're 23 like me you're very light o.0 When I started working out I was 140lbs with 15% body fat, now I'm 160lbs with 13% body fat. If you want to gain some more weight I'd recommend taking a weight gainer, like me. Without it I would still have been 140lbs.

Not many people seem to know how important it is to cut down on carbs if you want to lose weight. Everyone always aims for fat free and calorie free products, yet low carbs is much more important, especially if your body doesn't use all of the carbs.


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## J-Machine (May 3, 2013)

Sagat said:


> I can't say if you're too light or not, because I don't know your age or height, but if you're 23 like me you're very light o.0 When I started working out I was 140lbs with 15% body fat, now I'm 160lbs with 13% body fat. If you want to gain some more weight I'd recommend taking a weight gainer, like me. Without it I would still have been 140lbs.
> 
> Not many people seem to know how important it is to cut down on carbs if you want to lose weight. Everyone always aims for fat free and calorie free products, yet low carbs is much more important, especially if your body doesn't use all of the carbs.


well the bmi says i'm normal (lol) but at the end of the day I know i'm a good 30 pounds away from what I would call optimal weight, the problem is I plateau around 132 which at that point I really need to manage my eating habits and exercise regiment (at this point cardio is the warm up and never exceeds 15 minutes) I am however at a point in my program where strength training is viable again instead of endurance so i'm hoping to bulk up with help of the 3 main proteins and coconut oil/butter. (egg protein with meals, whey after work out and casein before bed.)

I agree on the carb thing though. the way people abuse salad dressing is the other thing I notice that makes or breaks a diet..

What gainer do you like?


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## Ethevion (May 3, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> well the bmi says i'm normal (lol) but at the end of the day I know i'm a good 30 pounds away from what I would call optimal weight, the problem is I plateau around 132 which at that point I really need to manage my eating habits and exercise regiment (at this point cardio is the warm up and never exceeds 15 minutes) I am however at a point in my program where strength training is viable again instead of endurance so i'm hoping to bulk up with help of the 3 main proteins and coconut oil/butter. (egg protein with meals, whey after work out and casein before bed.)
> 
> I agree on the carb thing though. the way people abuse salad dressing is the other thing I notice that makes or breaks a diet..
> 
> What gainer do you like?


I'm taking Iso Mass. After using it, I noticed I was getting heavier and bigger, it also has a small amount of creatine to help with recovery. My body fat didn't go up either :/
If you decide to take is, go with the cookies n cream, it's the best one 

If you can get into working out again, and follow a meal plan, you'll bulk up and you'll most likely be shredded as well.


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## Skelletonike (May 3, 2013)

There's a visual novel on android and iphone that motivates me to do more pushups and situps, the more you exercise, the more bonus you'll get and you can unlock content, like swimsuits, pajamas, etc... She also says cute things that motivates to go on. =3

It's called "Burn Your Fat With Me!", it's a really good game with a nice story too. =3


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## Yumi (May 3, 2013)

Well hey, thats great that youre enjoying running now. I run/jog myself and its just relaxing(i havent done so much since my leg injury, but im recovering!)
I was also thinking of using an app but I figured that I rather use a timer and estimate how far I ran.
A friend from the u.s. recommended me an app called Zombie Run! (i think thats what its called) but it wont download on mine. ;0 a game that supposely makes running fun and..scary I suppose. 

Also yes, previous stated, eat smart! 
Wear comfortable running shoes. Ive seen people wear Vans and stuff, then they get blisters.
Breath through your nose and exhale through your mouth. 
Oh! Stretch, obviously, before joggig/running always! Helps your muscles loosen up and have less chance of getting cramps. Those hurt.

Never give up and dont quit. And never drink any of those "energy" drinks to run.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 3, 2013)

Yumi said:


> Well hey, thats great that youre enjoying running now. I run/jog myself and its just relaxing(i havent done so much since my leg injury, but im recovering!)
> I was also thinking of using an app but I figured that I rather use a timer and estimate how far I ran.
> A friend from the u.s. recommended me an app called Zombie Run! (i think thats what its called) but it wont download on mine. ;0 a game that supposely makes running fun and..scary I suppose.
> 
> ...


 
The only caffeine I have is 2-3 cans of pop a day. That's it.


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## J-Machine (May 3, 2013)

Skelletonike said:


> There's a visual novel on android and iphone that motivates me to do more pushups and situps, the more you exercise, the more bonus you'll get and you can unlock content, like swimsuits, pajamas, etc... She also says cute things that motivates to go on. =3
> 
> It's called "Burn Your Fat With Me!", it's a really good game with a nice story too. =3



this one does more than pushups but I'm a little iffy on the delivery but Japan be Japan I guess


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## yuyuyup (May 3, 2013)

534


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## wrettcaughn (May 3, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> The only caffeine I have is 2-3 cans of pop a day. That's it.


Cut pop out completely....  It's ridiculous how much cutting sugary drinks out of your diet can help.  And personally I don't trust diet soda either as you're drinking something with zero nutritional value whatsoever.

Two months ago I completely overhauled my diet.  Cut out sugary drinks and snacks.  Cut out 90% of fast food (still eat Subway occasionally when I'm on the road).  Switch the bulk of my diet to whole, organic foods.  My wife found a farm about 30 minutes away that raisies livestock and we bought a meat share so 4 times a year we get like 80# of grass fed, organic poultry/beef/pork and it's some of the best meat I've ever had.  We plan to buy a vegetable share later this year.

As someone said before, weight loss is 90% diet.  I've lost 25# in two months and have only just started running the past couple days to help expedite the last 15# I'm looking to lose.  That's at 30 years old...  Imagine what all you teens/twenty-somethings are capable of.





yuyuyup said:


> My secret to weight loss (dropped 90 lbs in one year) was getting surgery to fix a nasal blockage.  Nose breathing allows you to maintain "The Bohr Effect" by rebreathing a portion of CO2.  This is important because your hemoglobin releases more oxygen when your blood pH is low (which is caused by a presence of CO2.)  It's all pretty complicated (at least for me,) I'm still studying how it all works.
> 
> Of course, exercise and a strict calorie count were integral.  Calorie counting is somewhat controversial, but it was a winning strategy for me.


I have a deviated septum from a broken nose like 15 years ago...  It really limits my nose-breathing after a few minutes of cardio.  Never paid much mind to it before but I think I'll be looking into getting it corrected after this post.


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## J-Machine (May 3, 2013)

Sagat said:


> I can't say if you're too light or not, because I don't know your age or height, but if you're 23 like me you're very light o.0 When I started working out I was 140lbs with 15% body fat, now I'm 160lbs with 13% body fat. If you want to gain some more weight I'd recommend taking a weight gainer, like me. Without it I would still have been 140lbs.
> 
> Not many people seem to know how important it is to cut down on carbs if you want to lose weight. Everyone always aims for fat free and calorie free products, yet low carbs is much more important, especially if your body doesn't use all of the carbs.


not big on artificial sweeteners but I'll give it a try.  I found this gainer that uses sugar too if you are interested http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products/serious-mass-p-241.html
I'd prefer a stevia based one but until then I'll probably alternate between these two


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## ShadowSoldier (May 3, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Cut pop out completely.... It's ridiculous how much cutting sugary drinks out of your diet can help. And personally I don't trust diet soda either as you're drinking something with zero nutritional value whatsoever.
> 
> Two months ago I completely overhauled my diet. Cut out sugary drinks and snacks. Cut out 90% of fast food (still eat Subway occasionally when I'm on the road). Switch the bulk of my diet to whole, organic foods. My wife found a farm about 30 minutes away that raisies livestock and we bought a meat share so 4 times a year we get like 80# of grass fed, organic poultry/beef/pork and it's some of the best meat I've ever had. We plan to buy a vegetable share later this year.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah,,, I'm never gonna cut out pop. I drink plenty of water too and smoothies (homemade, not the store bought shit).


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## J-Machine (May 3, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Cut pop out completely.... It's ridiculous how much cutting sugary drinks out of your diet can help. And personally I don't trust diet soda either as you're drinking something with zero nutritional value whatsoever.
> 
> Two months ago I completely overhauled my diet. Cut out sugary drinks and snacks. Cut out 90% of fast food (still eat Subway occasionally when I'm on the road). Switch the bulk of my diet to whole, organic foods. My wife found a farm about 30 minutes away that raisies livestock and we bought a meat share so 4 times a year we get like 80# of grass fed, organic poultry/beef/pork and it's some of the best meat I've ever had. We plan to buy a vegetable share later this year.
> 
> ...


This. A body shouldn't be exceeding 24 grams of sugar a day and one can of pop or glass of juice tends to exceed that. Also I like taking a day off to prepare my meals for the week that way I can always have something to eat within 10 minutes and makes packing lunches and snacks a breeze. the only downside I found was the dishes afterwords. you can also crockpot a roast or stew/chili/soup if you rather use your downtime for other things.


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## wrettcaughn (May 3, 2013)

We use the crockpot all the time.  Beef roasts, pork roasts, whole chickens...  Turns out great food with minimal effort.  We also make our own stocks from the bones and such for soups and other dishes.


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## Ethevion (May 3, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> not big on artificial sweeteners but I'll give it a try. I found this gainer that uses sugar too if you are interested http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products/serious-mass-p-241.html
> I'd prefer a stevia based one but until then I'll probably alternate between these two


I'll probably try that when I finish my gainer. It's got loads of calories but a little bit less protein. The carbs are nice too. Oh and that price is awesome o.o
I just wish they had other flavors.


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## Skelletonike (May 3, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> this one does more than pushups but I'm a little iffy on the delivery but Japan be Japan I guess



The one I mentioned also has those ones, pushups, squats, sit ups, etc... But it's an actual visual novel and in order to unlock new chapters, you either work out often or simply use real money to unlock... I unlock everything exercising since its cheaper. xP


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

I try to replace soda with black coffee, works out well for the most part. Still miss the carbonation from time to time though.


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## yuyuyup (May 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> I try to replace soda with black coffee, works out well for the most part. Still miss the carbonation from time to time though.


buy some seltzer water and some flavoring, or make your own flavoring


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## Ethevion (May 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> I try to replace soda with black coffee, works out well for the most part. Still miss the carbonation from time to time though.


Try water, it's all I drink. I have a rare glass of orange juice every week or so. I haven't had pop in a few years and I haven't had coffee since the first time I ever tried it like 10 years ago.


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## Densetsu (May 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> I try to replace soda with black coffee, works out well for the most part. Still miss the carbonation from time to time though.


Try club soda and MiO Energy.


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

I've actually got a SodaStream so I can end up making my own club soda, I've tried the MiO Energy and didn't like it, but I may try some other ones that are a little better for you than soda.


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## J-Machine (May 4, 2013)

Sagat said:


> I'll probably try that when I finish my gainer. It's got loads of calories but a little bit less protein. The carbs are nice too. Oh and that price is awesome o.o
> I just wish they had other flavors.


the 6lb version has strawberry, vanilla, banana, and chocolate for about an extra 13 bucks. you can get it here from this canadin site:
https://www.svncanada.com/product/1382/optimum-nutrition-serious-mass.  my favourite part about the mix though is that it doubles as a multivitamin and contains whey, casein, and albumen for a long term, steady protein source.


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## Sterling (May 4, 2013)

I went to the doctor's office about a month ago and found out I'd lost about 25 lbs without my knowledge. I take in at least 3000 calories regularly, so that both bothers me and pleases me. I am slightly more physically active, but I'm not "lose 25 lbs without trying " active. It may be because I drink at least five gallons of green tea a week (recent diet change). Other than that, I haven't laid off the sugary beverages nor have I changed any of my diet. Does someone here know what's up with this?


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## ShadowSoldier (May 4, 2013)

So today was a bit of an active day for me. Went in town at noon, walked about 1.5 mile. Just got back from a run which was 4.5km which is about 2.7 miles. Feel good.

Today I ate:

Breakfast - 3 scrambled eggs + 3 slices of toast + 1 can of rootbeer
Had one Mocha Ice Cappucino with Whipped cream and chocolate, didn't finish it, 2 bottles of water.
Had one 12'' sub
Dinner - Salad

And now I'm drinking a screwdriver to unwind for the night. Taking tomorrow off as it's my birthday.



Densetsu said:


> Try club soda and MiO Energy.


 
What is that MiO, my mom has it sometimes. I don't like taking caffeine other than pop as I don't know if that's the cause for my panic attacks.


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> What is that MiO, my mom has it sometimes. I don't like taking caffeine other than pop as I don't know if that's the cause for my panic attacks.


 

It's a water flavorer.  You add as much as you want to a bottle of water (whether you want just a light hint of the flavor or full on flavoring), shake it up so it mixes evenly, and then... drink it.

I get so bored with drinking plain water that I might want to drink it with tihs stuff, or do the above suggested and mix it with club soda for a healthier alternative to soda.


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## Densetsu (May 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> What is that MiO, my mom has it sometimes. I don't like taking caffeine other than pop as I don't know if that's the cause for my panic attacks.


It's a zero-calorie water flavoring with caffeine. It's super-concentrated, so all you need is a few drops into a glass of water. I love the cherry flavor. The "Green Thunder" flavor is kinda nasty, like Red Bull gone wrong or something.

And caffeine is caffeine; regardless of what source you get it from, it's the same molecule. If you tend to get panic attacks when consuming certain sources of caffeine over others, it probably has more to do with the _amount_ you're receiving, in which case you would just scale back how much you drink of whatever it is that gives you panic attacks.


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> It's a zero-calorie water flavoring with caffeine. It's super-concentrated, so all you need is a few drops into a glass of water. I love the cherry flavor. The "Green Thunder" flavor is kinda nasty, like Red Bull gone wrong or something.
> [...]


 

The best I've heard was that it's like uncarbonated Monster Energy. Tastes like ass, in any case.

I'll have to try the cherry one.


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## Densetsu (May 4, 2013)

Sterling said:


> I went to the doctor's office about a month ago and found out I'd lost about 25 lbs without my knowledge. I take in at least 3000 calories regularly, so that both bothers me and pleases me. I am slightly more physically active, but I'm not "lose 25 lbs without trying " active. It may be because I drink at least five gallons of green tea a week (recent diet change). Other than that, I haven't laid off the sugary beverages nor have I changed any of my diet. Does someone here know what's up with this?


You might want to get that checked out by a physician. A loss of 25 lbs without any conscious effort isn't exactly normal. Prior to finding out about your weight loss, when was the last time you weighed yourself? And does your family have any history of health problems? Not trying to alarm you, but it could be a cause for concern. Then again, it could be nothing, but a physician would have to see you in person to make that determination.



Sicklyboy said:


> The best I've heard was that it's like uncarbonated Monster Energy. Tastes like ass, in any case.
> 
> I'll have to try the cherry one.


Yeah, sounds about right for Green Thunder. If you haven't tried Black Cherry I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. It reminds me of Mountain Dew Code Red.


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> [...]Yeah, sounds about right for Green Thunder. If you haven't tried Black Cherry I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. It reminds me of Mountain Dew Code Red.


 

 Combined with the club soda I'll make with my Soda Stream... That sounds awesome then.

I might pick up another Green Thunder since I can carbonate it now.


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## Sterling (May 4, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> You might want to get that checked out by a physician. A loss of 25 lbs without any conscious effort isn't exactly normal. Prior to finding out about your weight loss, when was the last time you weighed yourself? And does your family have any history of health problems? Not trying to alarm you, but it could be a cause for concern. Then again, it could be nothing, but a physician would have to see you in person to make that determination.



The last time I weighed myself was when I went in to have my blood taken for tests. I'm not sure if that was at the beginning or end of last year, but either way that still leaves a good amount of buffer zone. This might not be anything to worry about, but I fully expected to weigh 340 - 350 lbs and I was plesantly surprised when I saw the scale top out at 298 (previous weight was approximately 330). I don't feel any lighter to tell the truth, but I do feel bigger.


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## J-Machine (May 4, 2013)

Sterling said:


> The last time I weighed myself was when I went in to have my blood taken for tests. I'm not sure if that was at the beginning or end of last year, but either way that still leaves a good amount of buffer zone. This might not be anything to worry about, but I fully expected to weigh 340 - 350 lbs and I was plesantly surprised when I saw the scale top out at 298 (previous weight was approximately 330). I don't feel any lighter to tell the truth, but I do feel bigger.


have you become less active and are you sure you haven't been eating less? as little as 500 less calories a day (depending on the food this could be as little as omitting desert or a snack) can trigger weight loss. eating less would make you feel more bloated and less exercise can regress muscle development which is heaver than fat, also leading to feeling bigger but weighing less. though you could just be eating smaller portions more often causing an increase in your metabolic rate

seriously, look into monitoring your diet for a week and think about your past before seeing a doctor about potential problems.


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## J-Machine (May 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> Combined with the club soda I'll make with my Soda Stream... That sounds awesome then.
> 
> I might pick up another Green Thunder since I can carbonate it now.


maybe I'm simple folk but I enjoy lemon/lime juice added to my water. I used to have a soda stream when I was weaning myself off pop and I found that combination pretty nice or make a strong pot of barley tea and do half the soda water and half the tea to make a light fizzy version for the summer. carbonated fruit and mint teas in general are nice if you make the tea portion strong enough since you can only put water in the soda stream.


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## Densetsu (May 4, 2013)

Sterling said:


> The last time I weighed myself was when I went in to have my blood taken for tests. I'm not sure if that was at the beginning or end of last year, but either way that still leaves a good amount of buffer zone. This might not be anything to worry about, but I fully expected to weigh 340 - 350 lbs and I was plesantly surprised when I saw the scale top out at 298 (previous weight was approximately 330). I don't feel any lighter to tell the truth, but I do feel bigger.


If you last weighed yourself in the beginning of last year, that's a 25-lb drop over 1-1/2 years, which is probably not a cause for concern. If it was the end of last year, 25 lbs lost over the course of 5-6 months is normally considered healthy weight loss, but it's the "without even trying" part that makes it somewhat concerning. If that happened to me I'd definitely ask a doctor about it, just to be safe.

Anyway I'm kind of derailing the thread so sorry about that. 

@Sterling: You can PM me if you want to continue this particular conversation.


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## yuyuyup (May 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> Combined with the club soda I'll make with my Soda Stream... That sounds awesome then.
> 
> I might pick up another Green Thunder since I can carbonate it now.


I hate to prick your balloon but Soda Stream SUCKS, they force you to pay extreme prices to refill their CO2 containers, which have propriety threading that doesn't allow easy refilling.  LUCKILY there ARE devices that allow you to refill the CO2 containers, etc.  But you need to research that, because there is a huge controversy over quality between competitors selling different adapters. 

Overall, the Soda Stream is absolutely not worth it, you would me much better off just buying club soda.  You could also buy a different brand water carbonation device, but the value still doesn't add up.


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## J-Machine (May 4, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> I hate to prick your balloon but Soda Stream SUCKS, they force you to pay extreme prices to refill their CO2 containers, which have propriety threading that doesn't allow easy refilling. LUCKILY there ARE devices that allow you to refill the CO2 containers, etc. But you need to research that, because there is a huge controversy over quality between competitors selling different adapters.
> 
> Overall, the Soda Stream is absolutely not worth it, you would me much better off just buying club soda. You could also buy a different brand water carbonation device, but the value still doesn't add up.


I dunno where you are getting your numbers but even buying new canisters every 60 litres (the price here is 35 dollars but refills are 18) is still cheaper than simply buying premade club soda as you suggest which would cost me $52.50 before taxes for the same amount (using store brand 12x355 can units)

I'm not here to argue if other carbonators are better value than soda stream but it definitely is cheaper than buying in store equivalents.


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## yuyuyup (May 4, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> I dunno where you are getting your numbers but even buying new canisters every 60 litres (the price here is 35 dollars but refills are 18) is still cheaper than simply buying premade club soda as you suggest which would cost me $52.50 before taxes for the same amount (using store brand 12x355 can units)
> 
> I'm not here to argue if other carbonators are better value than soda stream but it definitely is cheaper than buying in store equivalents.


You need to take in account of the carbonation device (from my research, at least $100 for a good non-sodastream.) With the shipping required, it costs FOURTY DOLLARS after shipping, FOURTY AMERICAN DOLLARS, to refill one tiny CO2 cartridge. So you will be spending either A: Sodastream official costs ($80 for the sodastream, $40 per co2 refill), B: Sodastream with adapter (well over $125 for good adapters,) or C: $100 for a non-sodastream (with cheap co2 refills.)

$120 will buy a shitload of bulk soda water (I'm SURE buying cans is more expensive than buying it from bottles.)


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## J-Machine (May 4, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> You need to take in account of the carbonation device (from my research, at least $100 for a good non-sodastream.) With the shipping required, it costs FOURTY DOLLARS after shipping, FOURTY AMERICAN DOLLARS, to refill one tiny CO2 cartridge. So you will be spending either A: Sodastream official costs ($80 for the sodastream, $40 per co2 refill), B: Sodastream with adapter (well over $125 for good adapters,) or C: $100 for a non-sodastream (with cheap co2 refills.)
> 
> $120 will buy a shitload of bulk soda water (I'm SURE buying cans is more expensive than buying it from bottles.)


maybe America is getting gauged then... also we have stores here that sell sodastream products and refills so no delivery cost and the 100 dollar starter comes with the c02 cartridge and a bottle. after that it's 20 bucks a refill for another 60 litres of soda water. going with my previous numbers you start saving money at the 3rd refill. or after spending 160 dollars.

but this is getting off topic isn't it?


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## yuyuyup (May 4, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> maybe America is getting gauged then... also we have stores here that sell sodastream products and refills so no delivery cost and the 100 dollar starter comes with the c02 cartridge and a bottle. after that it's 20 bucks a refill for another 60 litres of soda water. going with my previous numbers you start saving money at the 3rd refill. or after spending 160 dollars.
> 
> but this is getting off topic isn't it?


Things are different, please see latest response


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> You need to take in account of the carbonation device (from my research, at least $100 for a good non-sodastream.) With the shipping required, it costs FOURTY DOLLARS after shipping, FOURTY AMERICAN DOLLARS, to refill one tiny CO2 cartridge. So you will be spending either A: Sodastream official costs ($80 for the sodastream, $40 per co2 refill), B: Sodastream with adapter (well over $125 for good adapters,) or C: $100 for a non-sodastream (with cheap co2 refills.)
> 
> $120 will buy a shitload of bulk soda water (I'm SURE buying cans is more expensive than buying it from bottles.)


 
Wat.  Soda Stream refills are $15, dude.


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## yuyuyup (May 4, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> maybe America is getting gauged then... also we have stores here that sell sodastream products and refills so no delivery cost and the 100 dollar starter comes with the c02 cartridge and a bottle. after that it's 20 bucks a refill for another 60 litres of soda water. going with my previous numbers you start saving money at the 3rd refill. or after spending 160 dollars.
> 
> but this is getting off topic isn't it?





Sicklyboy said:


> Wat. Soda Stream refills are $15, dude.


Visiting the Sodastream.com website, I read:
Exchange carbonators can no longer be purchased on Sodastreamusa.com.
Only spare carbonators are available online.
Please visit a local *retailer*​ to exchange your carbonators.

So things are obviously different from when I bought a sodastream a few years ago, sorry about that, I am unaware of the current costs involved, my apologies


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## Sicklyboy (May 4, 2013)

You can still exchange them in most stores that sell them for $15


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## Gullwing (May 5, 2013)

I've been a couch potato for years now but I decided to lose my extra weight. Lost 90 lbs in 8 months (strict diet, running, sit-ups). Now my tummy looks like a jelly, and I have to surgically remove my gallbladder (it's full of gallstones).


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## wrettcaughn (May 5, 2013)

Yesterday was my son's second birthday party. After we put him to bed I decided I'd have a little ice cream and some pop as a cheat. I had zero craving for any of it and it didn't even seem appetizing, but I ate it anyway. I've learned that at this point, junk food and sugary drinks don't even appeal to me anymore. After a small bowl of ice cream and a glass of Coke, I felt the garbage setting in my stomach but didn't feel quenched or satisfied in the least and regretted it for the rest of the night...

Cheat days/items are fine, a necessity really. My main cheat item is a beer every few nights with dinner (grill nights only). On any other day though, my go-to drink is water. My go to snack is homemade granola (protein, fiber, nut fat, no empty calories; I have a quick and easy recipe if anyone wants it  ).

Let's say you go on a diet and limit yourself to 1250-1500 calories while getting some cardio in... You drink two cans of pop a day. If you're lucky, you've only used up 300 of your calories for the day on something with absolutely no positive nutritional value whatsoever... You've completely wasted 20%-24% of your fuel for the day. If you're trying to gain fat, a calorie is a calorie. If you're trying to lose fat you need to pay at least a little attention to where you're getting your calories from in order to make sure you're not sabotaging yourself. If you're eating right, metabolism will do a lot the work for you starting out. When you hit your plateau, it's time to really put in the work. If you're taking in 1400 calories, you'll want to burn 1401< .



Densetsu said:


> Try club soda and MiO Energy.


I've seen plenty of commercials for MiO. I'm always wary of artificial sweeteners though as there's barely of generation of science behind many of them...


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## Rizsparky (May 5, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> My secret to weight loss (dropped 90 lbs in one year) was getting surgery to fix a nasal blockage. Nose breathing allows you to maintain "The Bohr Effect" by rebreathing a portion of CO2. This is important because your hemoglobin releases more oxygen when your blood pH is low (which is caused by a presence of CO2.) It's all pretty complicated (at least for me,) I'm still studying how it all works.
> 
> Of course, exercise and a strict calorie count were integral. Calorie counting is somewhat controversial, but it was a winning strategy for me.


Did you have a deviated septum? My doctor said it was fairly common even though I can only breath through one nostril..


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## yuyuyup (May 5, 2013)

t


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## Rizsparky (May 5, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> I did, but it was quite severe. I could barely sniff, suffered constant allergy symptoms, etc. Getting surgery changed my life forever.


Ah mine isn't as bad but it does affect my sleep, good to hear it changed your life though


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## ShadowSoldier (May 6, 2013)

Just got in from a short run. Only did 1.6km this time, in about 10 minutes. The other night me and my sister ran 4.5, so hopefully soon I can go 5.

Only reason why my run was short was because I'm not feeling 100% after staying up until 6am drinking with my friend for my birthday. And it's ridiculously hot, and I don't do good in heat at all.

Can't wait to knock this weight off so I can start attempt sit ups.


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## J-Machine (May 6, 2013)

shoot. I consider myself fit but the last time I ran 4.5km was in grade 8 during a 10k run that I didn't finish * only did half because I was afraid of the many feral cats in the last section. 

I'm not sure how much you could run before but 4.5km is more than most people I know. Keep up the good work man! As for me I'm still planing my low impact, body based program so I can avoid gym fees and lugging weights home since I don't have a car right now. I'm particularly impressed by Shaolin training methods like a simple bucket of sand for hand grip/strength or the weighted cushion for the same reason.


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## dragonblood9999 (May 6, 2013)

in 1 year just by changing what i eat i lost 70lb but after i started going to a gym i gained 20lb back. i stated lifting about 80lb, with my legs, now i am lifting abot 310lb and with my arms i started with a but 45lb now i am lifting about 100lb. so i can understand the weight gain and alot of people have said that i look more muscular now

so i went down to 230lb form just under 300lb to 248lb and i am more thinner then when i was at 230lb, but i still have a long way to go(i want to lose another 60lb)


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## J-Machine (May 6, 2013)

dragonblood9999 said:


> in 1 year just by changing what i eat i lost 70lb but after i started going to a gym i gained 20lb back. i stated lifting about 80lb, with my legs, now i am lifting abot 310lb and with my arms i started with a but 45lb now i am lifting about 100lb. so i can understand the weight gain and alot of people have said that i look more muscular now
> 
> so i went down to 230lb form just under 300lb to 248lb and i am more thinner then when i was at 230lb, but i still have a long way to go(i want to lose another 60lb)


Have you tried swimming? That works the whole body and is low impact cardio.  also what kind f diet have you put yourself on? maybe we can fine tune it more to your needs?


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## dragonblood9999 (May 6, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> Have you tried swimming? That works the whole body and is low impact cardio. also what kind f diet have you put yourself on? maybe we can fine tune it more to your needs?


 
yes i do go swimming every year, i live right next to the ocean it takes me like 2 minutes(walking) to get there,
i go to a nutritionist every 3 months(i lose around 12lb to 15lb between every visit) and i am not on a diet but a llifestyle changeso that's why i am slowlly lossing weight,

also this is the "diet" i am on

in the morning i eat

2 piece's of whole wheat bread with cheese.

at around 10:30 am

some fruit or a yogurt

at lunch normal food(but of course i am not eating fried food)

at around 3:00pm

again some fruit or a yogurt (if i didn't have a yogurt at 10)

then at about 7:00-7:30pm
soup

and before i go to bed

1 piece of whole wheat bread with cheese and a glass of milk

also i usally go to the gym at around 6 pm and leave at about 8pm
i do there am hour of cardio everyday ,
30min treadmill, bike or elliptical, 15min(after the 30min on the frist machine) of one of the other 2 machines that i did not use,
then some weight trianing but i have been going to the classes they give there now(aerobic exercise ,etc)
after weight training, 3 set's of 20 Leg Lifts and 3 set's of 20 Crunches

and at the end of all of the training another 15min on the last machine


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## wrettcaughn (May 7, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> I did, but it was quite severe.  I could barely sniff, suffered constant allergy symptoms, etc.  Getting surgery changed my life forever.


Did insurance cover the surgery or was it out of pocket?


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## Haloman800 (May 7, 2013)

Awesome! I've been doing martial arts since I was around 8. I got a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and next month (if I pass) I'll get my black belt in Isshinryu Karate :3.

Recently I've been doing P90X with my brother, and have been starting P90 (easier version) with my dad, I recommend both of them, they're excellent.


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## J-Machine (May 7, 2013)

dragonblood9999 said:


> yes i do go swimming every year, i live right next to the ocean it takes me like 2 minutes(walking) to get there,
> i go to a nutritionist every 3 months(i lose around 12lb to 15lb between every visit) and i am not on a diet but a llifestyle changeso that's why i am slowlly lossing weight,
> 
> also this is the "diet" i am on
> ...


 
That is a lot of dairy. It's working for you so I wont condone it (cheese contains both fast and slow burning proteins). If you can though try to make cheese omelets in the morning. by cutting out the bread you bring down your carb and sugar load and replace it with a medium burning, complete protein (less cals but you'll feel full and it will work better.) not only that but they are easy to throw leftovers in like meats, veggies, and rice for a more complete meal.

I see you eat many small meals to enhance you metabolic rate yes? if you don't mind caffeine then white or green tea can help with that as well. Also summer is coming up, if you roast some pearl barley (or whole if you can get it) and add about a table spoon per litre of water, you can make barely tea which is used in Japan to combat the summer heat they have without adding sugar. You simply add it to the cold water, bring to a boil, and then bring to a simmer for 20 mins. You can drink it hot or cold; maybe add some lemon or lime juice for flavour though I've never needed it. You can also buy it in premade pouches (mugi-cha or bori-cha I believe are the two names it goes by) from asian grocers or j-list.com

To be honest you are doing so well I'm not sure where to give pointers or add lil suggestions. The only thing I can think of is weighted vest/anklet/bracelet when doing squats and swinging your arms with the motions (down to up) to get more out of them later. Keep up the good work man!


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## chavosaur (May 7, 2013)

My job tends to keep me somewhat fit (Cart attending, and its one BUSY place)
But other then that I don't work out much. 
I'm 18 years old, and against alcohol so I assume that's what keeps me so thin (I'm about 5ft 6, and 118 lb's)
The only thing I really have to be concerned about is the history of Diabetes in my family. 
Which I definitely do not prevent with all the soda I drink (I did some calculations in another thread, and because I get free soda from work,, I drink roughly 6 gallons worth a week)


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## yuyuyup (May 7, 2013)

6


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## J-Machine (May 7, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> My job tends to keep me somewhat fit (Cart attending, and its one BUSY place)
> But other then that I don't work out much.
> I'm 18 years old, and against alcohol so I assume that's what keeps me so thin (I'm about 5ft 6, and 118 lb's)
> The only thing I really have to be concerned about is the history of Diabetes in my family.
> Which I definitely do not prevent with all the soda I drink (I did some calculations in another thread, and because I get free soda from work,, I drink roughly 6 gallons worth a week)


do you not get free water? Sugar is a known dehydrator in large quantities like soda and juices. Eat bananas on your break and switch to water if you can and you will find you won't need to drink as much. Also someone your weight and size is kinda underweight so you really need to watch your eating habits. a high carb diet (sodas count) will burn faster than jet fuel in a space shuttle since I am assuming part of this problem is a high metabolism. More fats and proteins would do you well. I used to be 5' 7" and 112 pounds but after cutting soda's, alcohol, and bread/pasta to a bare minimum, substituting them for  eggs/diary/and meat as well as making rice and potato based breads in a frying pan I now hover around 125-132 depending on how much I cheat on the diet.

Of course your job keeps you moving so that can also hinder your ability to keep weight on but what you eat is big too.


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## dragonblood9999 (May 7, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> That is a lot of dairy. It's working for you so I wont condone it (cheese contains both fast and slow burning proteins). If you can though try to make cheese omelets in the morning. by cutting out the bread you bring down your carb and sugar load and replace it with a medium burning, complete protein (less cals but you'll feel full and it will work better.) not only that but they are easy to throw leftovers in like meats, veggies, and rice for a more complete meal.
> 
> I see you eat many small meals to enhance you metabolic rate yes? if you don't mind caffeine then white or green tea can help with that as well. Also summer is coming up, if you roast some pearl barley (or whole if you can get it) and add about a table spoon per litre of water, you can make barely tea which is used in Japan to combat the summer heat they have without adding sugar. You simply add it to the cold water, bring to a boil, and then bring to a simmer for 20 mins. You can drink it hot or cold; maybe add some lemon or lime juice for flavour though I've never needed it. You can also buy it in premade pouches (mugi-cha or bori-cha I believe are the two names it goes by) from asian grocers or j-list.com
> 
> To be honest you are doing so well I'm not sure where to give pointers or add lil suggestions. The only thing I can think of is weighted vest/anklet/bracelet when doing squats and swinging your arms with the motions (down to up) to get more out of them later. Keep up the good work man!


 
yes it is alot of dairy but i try to cut back on it and i think my doctor said that eatting many small meals will help my metabolic rate stay stable so i can lose calories at a stable pace, also the tea is a good idea. 

thanks for your input and encouragement


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## ShadowSoldier (May 8, 2013)

Well tonight I'm going to go for 5km. I'm pissed off though because I actually haven't lost any weight, in fact, I gained weight and now almost 230... what the fuck. So Iono, I might go for 5km, or go for an hour, and then lift weights and such.

I mean, I know I only run once a day, and I don't exactly eat the healthiest, but I don't eat a whole lot. So why the hell isn't any of this weight coming off.


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## J-Machine (May 8, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Well tonight I'm going to go for 5km. I'm pissed off though because I actually haven't lost any weight, in fact, I gained weight and now almost 230... what the fuck. So Iono, I might go for 5km, or go for an hour, and then lift weights and such.
> 
> I mean, I know I only run once a day, and I don't exactly eat the healthiest, but I don't eat a whole lot. So why the hell isn't any of this weight coming off.


could be a combo of muscles/water retention/lower metabolic rate caused by eating less. remember a body can keep 5 pounds of water and about 3 of food so there is much room for fluctuation in a day (average body can fluctuate on average 5 pounds daily). if the weight stays on however I would try braking your meal into 5 smaller ones to try and make your body consume more calories


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## ShadowSoldier (May 8, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> could be a combo of muscles/water retention/lower metabolic rate caused by eating less. remember a body can keep 5 pounds of water and about 3 of food so there is much room for fluctuation in a day (average body can fluctuate on average 5 pounds daily). if the weight stays on however I would try braking your meal into 5 smaller ones to try and make your body consume more calories


 
I don't even know what it is. My biggest thing is I want my stomach gone, that's why I'm mainly running. Then when it gets smaller, I'll attempt crunches or something to tone it. But fuck, what the hell. I hope it's muscle. I have been shitting a lot in the last couple days. I mean like 3-4 times a day.







I don't know why it says Walking. I was doing both running and walking, finished off with a sprint. But oh well, I went further in a shorter time tonight. Feel good.


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## J-Machine (May 8, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I don't even know what it is. My biggest thing is I want my stomach gone, that's why I'm mainly running. Then when it gets smaller, I'll attempt crunches or something to tone it. But fuck, what the hell. I hope it's muscle. I have been shitting a lot in the last couple days. I mean like 3-4 times a day.


i'm not sure if I said this yet but usually when people are looking to loose weight they remove 500 calories from their diet but keep active. What I would do is make a diary of what you eat every day for a week. Make sure you list the calories and the fat protein and carbs in each item if possible. (when calculating carbs subtract the sugar content to get your starches separate to better gauge how you take in carbs.) then find the average caloric intake and subtract 500 from it.

the first place you want to subtract calories from are sugars and bad fats (saturated and trans) and replace them with more protein and good fats. keep a chocolate bar or some candy ready as well as a bottle of pop or sports drink in case this change shocks the system and you find weening off the stuff is safer (When I first removed sugary foods from my diet I got the shakes and got really weak if I missed a meal so emergency rations helped) This need should go away in a months time though but I still carry a candy bar and ensure just in case. If you find yourself hungry but not needing more calories, vegetables and fruits (especially negative calorie foods like celery) can help fill you up. This is also the time when eggs and cheese if tolerated come in real handy. Eggs are complete protein (they have everything needed to properly use the protein it has) and is a medium burning, low calorie source while cheese contains whey and cassein proteins (fast and slow burning proteins) as well as some sugar. since you drink a lot of soda I would replace a bottle of the stuff a day with 500ml of chocolate milk as it has sugar but also protein and b vitamins to help in post workout recovery (like after your runs)

I can help you out a lot more after I know your numbers though (weight/age/height/build) and after I know your eating habits better (favourite foods and such can help too)

as far as exercising though.. You seem to be on the right track. if you have a bike it can burn more calories as well as better tone your legs while being easier on the knees compared to running if you are interested in that. otherwise keep doing what you feel comfortable with and make sure it's done 3x a week.

Edit: Forgot about the stomach part. That's a hard part of fat to get rid of so You would be best to tone it while you slim it (even wearing a weighted vest or holding dumbbells during crunches) Stomach fat, as well as pectoral and waist fat, take the longest to shrink and you may not see real results for 3 months under optimal conditions so don't be discouraged if it doesn't look like you are making progress. the body needs to know you don't need that fat for a while before it will start to remove it after all.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 10, 2013)

Just got back from a run. Before I was apparently using a walking app. That's why it says 5km in 44minutes. Just used the running app, and results are much different:

https://twitter.com/ryan8954/status/332722836793872385


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## RedCoreZero (May 10, 2013)

No matter how much I eat,I'm still skinny and healthy.Don't like that,I'm lifting so I can get a bit of muscle.But since it's a group thing,yeah I'm in.I usually run in the gym for 15 minutes.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 10, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> No matter how much I eat,I'm still skinny and healthy.Don't like that,I'm lifting so I can get a bit of muscle.But since it's a group thing,yeah I'm in.I usually run in the gym for 15 minutes.


 
That's like this one girl I was banging. She would eat like 5x as much as me. Sit on her ass all day and play video games, do no work or get any exercise, eat all the fattiest foods in the world, and she wouldn't gain a pound.


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## J-Machine (May 10, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> No matter how much I eat,I'm still skinny and healthy.Don't like that,I'm lifting so I can get a bit of muscle.But since it's a group thing,yeah I'm in.I usually run in the gym for 15 minutes.


stop running and be smarter about what you eat and how you exercise. Like I asked shadow, keep a diary of everything you eat, the amount of calories consumed for each if possible and where the biggest source of said calories are. If you are an ectomorph like I think you are, cardio will sabotage your gains in the gym. If you must do cardio switch to bike machines or something that also builds muscle and never use it more than as a warm up. Forget about endurance based strength training as well, you don't get gains and it consumes precious calories. Simply pick an area of muscles to concentrate on each day and only work them. with warm ups and cool downs/stretches etc included gym time should be around 45 minutes. you shouldn't need more than half an hour anyways to work an area of the body in isolation. Don't forget pushups/chin ups/ crunches/squats to keep other areas from regressing while you use weights on the isolated areas.

As for the kinds of exercises... free weights are your friend. machines mean you need to do more sets on more areas in order to get the same progress a set using free weights can and since you need to be calorie wise, any extra movements are a no no. as you improve use weighted clothes or accessories or hold weights during pushups/chinups/crunches/squats to keep these as potential gainers. (holding dumbbells while you do crunches)

within half an hour after working out drink 12 grams of whey from a complete shake and not an isolate. you need the complete formula so muscle recovery can occur; you need whey as it is the only protein fast enough to work. it needs to be no more than 12 grams as any excess whey is unused by the body and is excreted not absorbed. it has to be in half an hour because the longer you wait, the less you absorb and anything after 45 minutes is not used as your body is already feeding off itself and wont bother with the whey.

you might also consider a gainer before bed and when you wake up (half servings) to supplement your diet. at night is best as the majority of your recovery is then. Also get your 8 hours. Its very important for your body type to get adequate rest for it's recovery as you will have the hardest time to gain muscle and fat.

once you know your current diet, give me your decade/weight/height/ and gender if you feel comfortable and It will be easier to help you farther then.


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## Wolvenreign (May 11, 2013)

I used to not give a crap about physical fitness...until I realized that my obesity might be blowing my chance at becoming a posthuman. Now I train hard every day to rid myself of fat and extend my life expectancy. I hope to have Olympic levels of low body fat eventually.


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## wrettcaughn (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Well tonight I'm going to go for 5km. I'm pissed off though because I actually haven't lost any weight, in fact, I gained weight and now almost 230... what the fuck. So Iono, I might go for 5km, or go for an hour, and then lift weights and such.
> 
> I mean, I know I only run once a day, and I don't exactly eat the healthiest, but I don't eat a whole lot. So why the hell isn't any of this weight coming off.


Stop drinking pop!!!


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## J-Machine (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Stop drinking pop!!!


unless he has more than two cans a day this isn't a real problem.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Stop drinking pop!!!





J-Machine said:


> unless he has more than two cans a day this isn't a real problem.


I have like one glass a day.


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## RedCoreZero (May 11, 2013)

Well,every food here is basically STRICTLY healthy.No meat,no cow milk,no highly unhealthy foods.

edit: lol advertisement of SSF2.


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## wrettcaughn (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I have like one glass a day.





J-Machine said:


> unless he has more than two cans a day this isn't a real problem.





ShadowSoldier said:


> The only caffeine I have is 2-3 cans of pop a day. That's it.



That's up to 450+ empty calories...  Yes, that is a real problem.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> That's up to 450+ empty calories... Yes, that is a real problem.


 
No sugar or calories in Fresca.


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## wrettcaughn (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> No sugar or calories in Fresca.


And how about the root beer you have for breakfast?


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> And how about the root beer you have for breakfast?


 
I don't have rootbeer every single day :/ and even then there's only 150 calories or something.


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## DoctorSmash (May 11, 2013)

Don't have to work out I'm healthy Weight


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## J-Machine (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> That's up to 450+ empty calories... Yes, that is a real problem.


Those empty calories are consumed first before anything else. The problem for weight is never pop. it's what is consumed with it (especially carbs) as those are the things that get turned to fat after. The western diet is high in fats and simple carbs. the way the body takes in calories in order is simple carbs, complex carbs, fat, protein. each catagory has varying degrees of conversion rates but that is the gist of it. everything in those catagories is turned into the same fuel source. if the body has it in excess, it is stored into fat. the only exception is with protein. some times (like in whey) it is simply excreted if not needed or it will go towards repairing muscle tissue and not simply supplying energy. Turning protein into eergy is also iffy as the process causes some unwanted side effects as what happened to the atkins founder. (great for short term but not long term diet)

With that said, if he ate a bacon cheese burger with fries and soda worth 600 calories and his body only needed 300 calories (this is simple to the point of having minor errors) chances are he would gain his weight from the cheese, bacon, and burger and not the bun, soda, and fries since the body will use those right away and see everything else (minus the cheese's whey content which would be used up) as excess to be used later. What this does is make the healthy part of his meal bad for him (without going into the sodium nitrate the bacon has on muscle development)

tldr: it's not what you eat but how you eat that counts.



maniax300 said:


> Well,every food here is basically STRICTLY healthy.No meat,no cow milk,no highly unhealthy foods.
> 
> edit: lol advertisement of SSF2.


You say you eat healthy but you are excluding both meat and dairy from your diet. Unless you love eggs and have em often, you are seriously hindering any progress made in the gym. And Soy is a garbage protein for muscles. it actually can lower testosterone and make you loose definition and libido (especially if you are a dude) nuts are not complete proteins so they don't help in the gym either. You either need a) take a gainer with knowledge you are eating the isolates of some foods you don't normally eat) or consume at least 20gr of protein from eggs with enough veggies and supplements to aid in your recovery (not in one shot either and is usually aboot 3-4 eggs) pretty much an egg every meal and a egg based supplement after the workout.

if your metabolism is also as high as you seem to describe it, then your current diet is also holding you back on a day to day basis. average adult ectomorph should consider eating 2500-3k cals a day. If you got the money, I would highly suggest coconut oil in as many things as possible and gainers with a bunch of bananas eaten every day. (i'm talking 5 of them)

in any case a food diary will still help immensly so I can see where you may have deficiencies and offer suggestions to get them. Also let me know if you are vegan or vegetarian so I don't give you crap advce


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## wrettcaughn (May 11, 2013)

You really need to eat more and more often. Instead of a 12" sub for lunch, eat 6" @ 12-1pm and the other 6" @ 3-4pm. A salad for dinner is a little ambiguous... What type of salad? How big was it? What type of dressing? Find something to snack on throughout the day to keep your metabolism up. Fruit, veggies; nuts, granola for something a little more filling. More nutrient-dense foods that contain fewer calories.



ShadowSoldier said:


> I don't have rootbeer every single day :/ and even then there's only 150 calories or something.


You're confusing me... You say you have 2-3 cans of caffeinated pop a day, then you say it's Fresca (which isn't caffeinated).

This:


J-Machine said:


> Those empty calories are consumed first before anything else. The problem for weight is never pop. it's what is consumed with it (especially carbs) as those are the things that get turned to fat after. The western diet is high in fats and simple carbs. the way the body takes in calories in order is simple carbs, complex carbs, fat, protein. each catagory has varying degrees of conversion rates but that is the gist of it. *everything in those catagories is turned into the same fuel source. if the body has it in excess, it is stored into fat.* the only exception is with protein. some times (like in whey) it is simply excreted if not needed or it will go towards repairing muscle tissue and not simply supplying energy. Turning protein into eergy is also iffy as the process causes some unwanted side effects as what happened to the atkins founder. (great for short term but not long term diet)
> 
> With that said, if he ate a bacon cheese burger with fries and soda worth 600 calories and his body only needed 300 calories (this is simple to the point of having minor errors) chances are he would gain his weight from the cheese, bacon, and burger and not the bun, soda, and fries since the body will use those right away and see everything else (minus the cheese's whey content which would be used up) as excess to be used later. What this does is make the healthy part of his meal bad for him (without going into the sodium nitrate the bacon has on muscle development)
> 
> tldr: it's not what you eat but how you eat that counts.


Is a bit of a change from this:


J-Machine said:


> A body shouldn't be exceeding 24 grams of sugar a day and one can of pop or glass of juice tends to exceed that.


What order things are taken in is meaningless when taking the bolded portion into consideration... In your example with the cheeseburger, fries, and soda...what if he swaps the soda out with water? Rather than taking in 300 too many calories he's taking in 150, which means his 3 mile run now covers that whole meal+ as opposed to 50-100 calories less...
(and if you're referring to fast food in your example, I'd love to know where you can get a value meal that's only 600 cal  )


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## J-Machine (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> You really need to eat more and more often. Instead of a 12" sub for lunch, eat 6" @ 12-1pm and the other 6" @ 3-4pm. A salad for dinner is a little ambiguous... What type of salad? How big was it? What type of dressing? Find something to snack on throughout the day to keep your metabolism up. Fruit, veggies; nuts, granola for something a little more filling. More nutrient-dense foods that contain fewer calories.
> 
> You're confusing me... You say you have 2-3 cans of caffeinated pop a day, then you say it's Fresca (which isn't caffeinated).
> 
> ...


you are taking what I say out of context. 24 grams of sugar a day is for optimal organ health and has nothing to do with consumption for calories.  Also I was describing the order in which the calories are consumed as they do indeed have varying rates of being consumed. If he consumed that food after the run than removing the meat would be wiser than removing the carbs since his body would still get what it needs when it needs it. if he was eating it before the run then omitting the bun would be better (it will actually have more sugar after it's converted than the soda will.) that way the protein will actually be consumed and the soda will help him get through the run.

Also dieting with sandwiches and salads is, pardon my language, completely and utterly stupid. most sandwiches are made from processed and or red meats, processed cheeses, high salt/fat condiments and a nice carb rich container (the bread). even if you had real cheese and real lean meat chances are the condiments and bread will not be healthy. look at whole wheat. 2 slices of that bread, once converted to energy, is the same as drinking a bottle of soda, add to that the high bad fats and high salt/sugar of those condiments and you already made the meat and cheese useful only if you were working out that day. for the average dieter it makes them useless. Same with the salad. sure you got a lot of veggies in there but most of them are nutritionally garbage too (lettuce, cucumber, tomato maybe celery....) add that fat/sugar/salt rich dressing and some bacon (fake or real) and you realize the calories of that food are from what you aren't supposed to have when dieting anyway. A chief salad made with spinach that is naked is the only real salad that can help someone but at that point you are better off just eating another 2 eggs. and saving that spinach for supper. where the vitamins and minerals in it will help the meat you will eat.

Everything I heard from you, other than eating fresh wholesome foods, is only helpful to those who want to indiscriminately loose weight without helping the body cope with the changes it will no doubt go through. This more often than not forces a body to store whatever it can get and makes many modern diets fail due to people not making progress or making the "yo-yo" effect many suffer from the moment they start moving away from the strict plan they had earlier. Soda is not evil in moderation, fats aren't evil; nothing we eat is truly bad so long as we do so in moderation and so long as the rest of our lifestyle is complimentary to our overall health.

Well I personally hate simple carbs but plenty of athletes have excelled with it's help. Look at michael phelps. 12k calories a day, most of it carbs and other foods dieters tend to shun but we all know how well he did in the olympics.  http://www.michaelphelps.net/michael-phelps-diet/


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> You're confusing me... You say you have 2-3 cans of caffeinated pop a day, then you say it's Fresca (which isn't caffeinated).


 
If we have it. Otherwise I cut back on pop to about a glass or two a day. But most of the time I'm drinking Fresca like, 5 cans a day.


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## J-Machine (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> If we have it. Otherwise I cut back on pop to about a glass or two a day. But most of the time I'm drinking Fresca like, 5 cans a day.


I can't remember if fresca is a diet soda or not. Diet pops may be low-0 calories, they tend to be far sweeter than regular pop and can cause some people to crave eating in order to meet the demand for sugar the body thought it was going to get. This is one the main reason why you are supposed to talk to your doctor before consuming artificial sweeteners as it is an option for diabetics who are having trouble coping without sugary foods. it later became mass produced as a diet product giving many dieters a false sense of progress.

In any case if you find yourself reaching for some baked goods or something deep fried while within about an hour of having a diet soda, do what you can to eat something else like meat, cheese, nuts, or eggs to help fill you up. Beef jerky is great for this I find.

otherwise I see nothing wrong with your soda drinking habits. The negative stigma around them is kinda sad tbh


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## wrettcaughn (May 11, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> you are taking what I say out of context. 24 grams of sugar a day is for optimal organ health and has nothing to do with consumption for calories. Also I was describing the order in which the calories are consumed as they do indeed have varying rates of being consumed. If he consumed that food after the run than removing the meat would be wiser than removing the carbs since his body would still get what it needs when it needs it. if he was eating it before the run then omitting the bun would be better (it will actually have more sugar after it's converted than the soda will.) that way the protein will actually be consumed and the soda will help him get through the run.
> 
> Also dieting with sandwiches and salads is, pardon my language, completely and utterly stupid. most sandwiches are made from processed and or red meats, processed cheeses, high salt/fat condiments and a nice carb rich container (the bread). even if you had real cheese and real lean meat chances are the condiments and bread will not be healthy. look at whole wheat. 2 slices of that bread, once converted to energy, is the same as drinking a bottle of soda, add to that the high bad fats and high salt/sugar of those condiments and you already made the meat and cheese useful only if you were working out that day. for the average dieter it makes them useless. Same with the salad. sure you got a lot of veggies in there but most of them are nutritionally garbage too (lettuce, cucumber, tomato maybe celery....) add that fat/sugar/salt rich dressing and some bacon (fake or real) and you realize the calories of that food are from what you aren't supposed to have when dieting anyway. A chief salad made with spinach that is naked is the only real salad that can help someone but at that point you are better off just eating another 2 eggs. and saving that spinach for supper. where the vitamins and minerals in it will help the meat you will eat.
> 
> ...


Dieting with sandwiches and salads is not my personal recommendation...  That was based around what he posted as his meals for the day a few pages back.  If all he's going to eat is a few eggs, a sandwich, a salad, and a sugar loaded cappucino...he's going to be struggling for a while...  Fats are not evil.  Soda isn't evil in moderation.  Everything you said, I 100% agree with.  The OP has made it clear that he would prefer to eat very little and refuses to even consider giving up soda.  He stated that he doesn't eat healthy and he eats very little.  I suggested in my post that he at least spread it out throughout the day.

My meals yesterday?
2 scrambled eggs and bacon with some muskmelon and watermelon w/coffee to drink
Homemade granola and an apple to snack on
Tuna wrap (2 cans tuna) with spinach and asparagus
Chicken sandwich (had to taste the whole chicken I cooked yesterday)
2 mile run
Spinach Salad with a bunch of chicken (from my whole chicken), carrots, and homemade coconut oil vinegarette
A beer
All while chasing a two year old around... (well, not the beer)
The only processed item listed above? Tuna fish.

I'm definitely not going hungry and I'd never recommend anyone else to.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> I can't remember if fresca is a diet soda or not. Diet pops may be low-0 calories, they tend to be far sweeter than regular pop and can cause some people to crave eating in order to meet the demand for sugar the body thought it was going to get. This is one the main reason why you are supposed to talk to your doctor before consuming artificial sweeteners as it is an option for diabetics who are having trouble coping without sugary foods. it later became mass produced as a diet product giving many dieters a false sense of progress.
> 
> In any case if you find yourself reaching for some baked goods or something deep fried while within about an hour of having a diet soda, do what you can to eat something else like meat, cheese, nuts, or eggs to help fill you up. Beef jerky is great for this I find.
> 
> otherwise I see nothing wrong with your soda drinking habits. The negative stigma around them is kinda sad tbh


 
Yeah I don't get a craving to eat.


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## J-Machine (May 12, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Dieting with sandwiches and salads is not my personal recommendation... That was based around what he posted as his meals for the day a few pages back. If all he's going to eat is a few eggs, a sandwich, a salad, and a sugar loaded cappucino...he's going to be struggling for a while... Fats are not evil. Soda isn't evil in moderation. Everything you said, I 100% agree with. The OP has made it clear that he would prefer to eat very little and refuses to even consider giving up soda. He stated that he doesn't eat healthy and he eats very little. I suggested in my post that he at least spread it out throughout the day.
> 
> My meals yesterday?
> 2 scrambled eggs and bacon with some muskmelon and watermelon w/coffee to drink
> ...


ya sorry I rushed thinking you told someone to eat subway. That place is interesting as a 6 inch meatball sub has everything a cheeseburger does but usually out performs it calorie wise. I added salads into the mix just because they irk me so bad.


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## RedCoreZero (May 12, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> You say you eat healthy but you are excluding both meat and dairy from your diet. Unless you love eggs and have em often, you are seriously hindering any progress made in the gym. And Soy is a garbage protein for muscles. it actually can lower testosterone and make you loose definition and libido (especially if you are a dude) nuts are not complete proteins so they don't help in the gym either. You either need a) take a gainer with knowledge you are eating the isolates of some foods you don't normally eat) or consume at least 20gr of protein from eggs with enough veggies and supplements to aid in your recovery (not in one shot either and is usually aboot 3-4 eggs) pretty much an egg every meal and a egg based supplement after the workout.
> 
> if your metabolism is also as high as you seem to describe it, then your current diet is also holding you back on a day to day basis. average adult ectomorph should consider eating 2500-3k cals a day. If you got the money, I would highly suggest coconut oil in as many things as possible and gainers with a bunch of bananas eaten every day. (i'm talking 5 of them)
> 
> in any case a food diary will still help immensly so I can see where you may have deficiencies and offer suggestions to get them. Also let me know if you are vegan or vegetarian so I don't give you crap advce


Thanks for your info gladly appreciate it.I'm kinda vegetarian,at times I eat meat and stuff,not often,you know, for health.

edit:

Soy,I guess I wont be having taco bell for a while.

I have dairy products I use often,so that will help.Eggs, I eat frequently.


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## astrangeone (May 12, 2013)

It hasn't been too hot to exercise lately. I've been taking a few more walks outside (I hate cardio with a passion, but with summer, I can at least get my foot-ankle express on), and weight training with free weights.

I might invest in some decent protein powder (I used to consume 20 grams of protein shake after a weight lifting session), but so far, I can't find a decent brand I can down easily.

I've also been taking powdered gelatin (unflavoured) for my joint problems - I had torn a little bit of cartilage in my knee, and I don't want it to get worse.

My Meals Yesterday:
Breakfast:
-  dim sum (dumplings with peanuts and veggies, boiled lobster) 

Lunch:
-  skipped lunch (was pretty late)

Dinner:
-  mouthful of macoroni and soup
-  some ham
-  fried rice with onions, salted preserved fish
-  some porkchops

Not exactly health food, but we were celebrating Mother's Day a bit early.


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## J-Machine (May 13, 2013)

astrangeone said:


> It hasn't been too hot to exercise lately. I've been taking a few more walks outside (I hate cardio with a passion, but with summer, I can at least get my foot-ankle express on), and weight training with free weights.
> 
> I might invest in some decent protein powder (I used to consume 20 grams of protein shake after a weight lifting session), but so far, I can't find a decent brand I can down easily.
> 
> ...


unless you deep fry your dim sum, that was pretty healthy. I mean skipping lunch sucks and the fish seems too salty but overall nothing bad there. My next post will be for everyone and will show calculators to make a guideline to what you might need to consume both in calories and as protein. I'm also a big believer in 20 grams of whey or under and only before 30 mins into a workout. so kudos on using it effectively. as for good protein powders I'll ask my freind what he prefers as the guy tries a new one often enough to be considered a connoisseur . this guy also happens to have the most defined and massive calf muscles I've ever seen. when he flexes them you can clearly see everything and it pops out like a cutlet.

for those interested in finding out how many calories you should consume; this website can give you a close estimate to your needs and a brief rundown on where to get them.
http://www.freedieting.com/tools/weight_gain_calculator.htm

Also this site will help you determin how much protein you will need if you are going to the gym tolift weights
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbprotein.htm

these of course don't tell you the best way to get your calories and preferred protiens to consume but it's a good start. couple this info with a food diary and excercise journal to see what you need to add or remove.

As for me I just signed up for a 4 week yoga class so that I can learn capitalize on my stretches and balance. that and sears had a sale on weighted equipment soI got somegloves, wrist bands, anklets, and some push up bars for 20 bucks. might go back for the weighted vest though I might just tie a weight to my back for fruglities sake.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 15, 2013)

https://twitter.com/ryan8954/status/334525328380796928

Not bad considering the pain I'm in. I have to work on my dinner though, I get cramps easily. So I don't know, maybe run before dinner. I've cut my portion size down quite a bit. That or stretch my right side a lot more than I do with my left.


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## Sicklyboy (May 15, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> https://twitter.com/ryan8954/status/334525328380796928
> 
> Not bad considering the pain I'm in. I have to work on my dinner though, I get cramps easily. So I don't know, maybe run before dinner. I've cut my portion size down quite a bit. That or stretch my right side a lot more than I do with my left.


 

I've realized a really, really nice stretch for your sides while ive been standing around at work, not sure how well it'll work for exercise purposes but it's worth a shot.  Cross your leg in front of your other leg and then bend sideways on that same direction.  Then switch legs and bend in THAT direction. So to stretch your right side, cross your right leg in front of your left, then lean to the leftuntil your can't lean any more.  Hold it, then keep doing them alternating until you think you're good.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 15, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> I've realized a really, really nice stretch for your sides while ive been standing around at work, not sure how well it'll work for exercise purposes but it's worth a shot. Cross your leg in front of your other leg and then bend sideways on that same direction. Then switch legs and bend in THAT direction. So to stretch your right side, cross your right leg in front of your left, then lean to the leftuntil your can't lean any more. Hold it, then keep doing them alternating until you think you're good.


 
Yeah I can't do that. It stretches my back too much and I'm currently dealing with Shingles so I go through pain.


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## Sicklyboy (May 15, 2013)

Right.  Forgot that you mentioned you had shingles.

Have a back injury of some sort that it puts too much pressure on, ir it's just uncomfortable in general?  If you don't mind me asking.

I don't know any other stretches (for sides) other than twisting back and forth, which I don't feel does as good a job, personally.


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## Icealote (May 15, 2013)

Have you tried that app called Zombies, Run! ? I use that to keep me running. You listen to radio conversations while in between storylines and picking up items to build a base, it incorporates your own music into the game. I use it often and it helps if you turn on zombie chases. Forces you to really sprint for some metres so it's like interval training lol

Just something if you find bored of usual running and you don't feel motivated.


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## J-Machine (May 15, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> I've realized a really, really nice stretch for your sides while ive been standing around at work, not sure how well it'll work for exercise purposes but it's worth a shot. Cross your leg in front of your other leg and then bend sideways on that same direction. Then switch legs and bend in THAT direction. So to stretch your right side, cross your right leg in front of your left, then lean to the leftuntil your can't lean any more. Hold it, then keep doing them alternating until you think you're good.


It does seem to be more effective then the ol' rise your arm and side bend but I wonder what happens to the leg muscle.... in any case the only other excercise I recall for your sides is the exaggerated hoola hoop movements. 

as for my update: I got a nice sand based medicine ball (better for hand and wrist exercises due to the way the sand flows inside) and a basketball for when I'm bored. next week, when I get my next check, I'm going to be getting a expandable weight set for 350 that goes to 70 but can be given upgrades till 130 and then my home gym will be complete. I even got an exercise mat since I live with a cement floor. Still waiting on my "serious mass" gainer and will review it here once I get to test it for a lil while. in order to meet my demands I need 3k calories a day but when on a lean protein / gluten free diet that can be tough so hopefully this 1680 cal shake can get me what I need.



ShadowSoldier said:


> https://twitter.com/ryan8954/status/334525328380796928
> 
> Not bad considering the pain I'm in. I have to work on my dinner though, I get cramps easily. So I don't know, maybe run before dinner. I've cut my portion size down quite a bit. That or stretch my right side a lot more than I do with my left.


have you used my calorie calculator link to determine if such a change is necessary? remember if you don't eat enough your body will become really good at turning everything excess in a meal into fat. the best ways I find to get the most out of your metabolism is to simply spread your food out into 5 meals and drink metabolism boosting drinks like green/white tea and of course removing 500 cals from your total needed daily to encourage using your reserves.

got my weight gainer "serious mass" in the mail today. the website I ordered from even gave me a free shake cup with agitator ball. I'll taste review it around 2pm est when my errands are done and I've had a chance to workout/drink it.

all i can comment on is it is no sugar added but has sugar in it and that the label tells me i gotta ween into it.

Alright I have had two days worth of the serious mass weening program so I'll comment on it.

price: 45 bucks for 6 pounds
from: SVN Canada https://www.svncanada.com/product/1382/optimum-nutrition-serious-mass
Flavour: chocolate
mixability: 3 out of 5
calories per serving: 1200
Taste: 4/5

I'm used to consuming isolates so having a complete gainer was a novel idea that is going to be needed to gain more weight while I work out. SVN Was very kind in giving me a free mixing cup capable of making 1 scoops worth of the finished product (1 and a half cups of water needed; 2 scoops per serving). The first thing I noticed was I needed to ween on this before I went and consumed the recommended amount (start off with 1 scoop a day for first week then take 2-4 scoops max after for a total max of 2400 calories a day) The shake itself contains whey, albumin, and casein for a full spectrum protein mix and also medium chain triglycerides as a fat source. each serving comes with 20 grams of sugar (less than a can of soda) and only comes from the ingredients used and not added on its own as a refined source. to help with muscle development, serious mass includes a multi-vitamin/supplement approach removing the need to take glutamine and other supplements on the side.

mix-ability was a mixed bag. While it blended better than most shakes after a minute of shaking the container vigorously (label suggests a blender) there were still some small unmixed clumps on the top. taste, not including the few chewy clumps that remained, was very good and reminded me of a slightly thicker version of chocolate milk when mixed with water. However, despite this, about an hour or two after drinking it, my mouth begins making spit that tastes abnormally sweet and it makes me both hungry and lasts for half the day. I'm not sure what is causing this but I feel once I'm done weening, I'll be made hungry all the time and is how I’ll actually gain weight.

as far as recovery... I worked out my whole body till everything ached from neck to toe then took the first serving. I was exhausted for an hour to the point of not wanting to move but after that I was back to normal (though I still felt resistance from just walking). next day I woke up an hour earlier than usual and while groggy, physically I was only minimally fatigued from the workout.

recommended use: for now I'm thinking a scoop will replace every bottle of water I have (3 a day) I'll have whey isolate just after I work out and then some casein at night for recovery. this plan, with weight training, should net me about 2 pound gains a week so by summers end I should hopefully be 140 pounds. after that I will switch things around so I'm meeting caloric needs to maintain. This plan means i'll need 18 pounds of serious mass a month (100 dollars worth) and probably another 100 for the whey and cassien unless I can find a cheap source.

Weight gaining is expensive for ectomorphs! most other people will be able to get by on serious mass alone. Also I'm taking an aggressive approach so I'm sure serious mass alone with fattening foods will be fine for ectomorphs simply looking for fat based gain and not muscle mass. I'll be charting my progress soon as my weights are bought and hopefully my experience can be used to help others in my predicament (those who need 3k calories a day just to keep weight on.)


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## Densetsu (Aug 1, 2013)

I went to the doctor for a checkup and it turns out I'm hypertensive, so I decided I really need to do something about it.

For the past month I've been eating oatmeal with fruit every morning. I also invested in a juicer and have been juicing every vegetable and fruit I can get my hands on (protip: kale, wheatgrass and spinach juice keeps you on the toilet). I now drink soluble fiber. Not only does it keep me regular, but it also helps lower my cholesterol. I've cut most fats out of my diet and when I eat meat, I only eat grilled/baked white meat and raw fish. I've been counting my calories, and just that alone has changed my eating habits for the better. I allow myself to consume 1600 Cal a day, which I think of as money in the bank, and the Cal of the foods I eat are like prices. When I think of it that way, all I have to do is not spend more money than I have. Each week, I allow myself two (and _only_ two) "cheat" meals and splurge on a satisfying burger, pizza, fried chicken, or whatever the hell I want. So far, it feels like something that I can stick with. The cheat meals allow me to feel like I'm not killing myself and give me something to look forward to as a reward for sticking with my plan.

Just sticking with the above diet for a month I lost 20 lbs without any exercise. I wanted to get more dramatic results, so I just started the Beachbody Insanity workout.

My main goals right now are to lose weight and to have a body worthy of a ninja. I'll report here with my progress over the next 60 days (that's the length of the Insanity workout program). Wish me luck!


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## Ethevion (Aug 1, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> I went to the doctor for a checkup and it turns out I'm hypertensive, so I decided I really need to do something about it.
> 
> For the past month I've been eating oatmeal with fruit every morning. I also invested in a juicer and have been juicing every vegetable and fruit I can get my hands on (protip: kale, wheatgrass and spinach juice keeps you on the toilet). I now drink soluble fiber. Not only does it keep me regular, but it also helps lower my cholesterol. I've cut most fats out of my diet and when I eat meat, I only eat grilled/baked white meat and raw fish. I've been counting my Calories, and just that alone has changed my eating habits for the better. I allow myself to consume 1600 Calories a day, which I think of as money in the bank, and the Calories of the foods I eat are like prices. When I think of it that way, all I have to do is not spend more money than I have. Each week, I allow myself two (and _only_ two) "cheat" meals and splurge on a satisfying burger, pizza, fried chicken, or whatever the hell I want. So far, it feels like something that I can stick with. The cheat meals allow me to feel like I'm not killing myself and give me something to look forward to as a reward for sticking with my plan.
> 
> ...


 
Good luck on your journey! It's good that you realized how bad junk food is and started eating healthy. Counting calories and weighing your food is a great way to track your total intake. I don't know about your body type or how much you weigh, so I can't comment on 1600 calories. As for the cheat meal, 2 cheats a week is a good start. Eventually, you'll start to notice how much better the whole foods are and you'll eat junk much less often. I only have a cheat meal once a month and sometimes the gap is even longer. 

Can't wait to hear about your progress!


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## Densetsu (Aug 1, 2013)

Ethevion said:


> Good luck on your journey! It's good that you realized how bad junk food is and started eating healthy. Counting calories and weighing your food is a great way to track your total intake. I don't know about your body type or how much you weigh, so I can't comment on 1600 calories. As for the cheat meal, 2 cheats a week is a good start. Eventually, you'll start to notice how much better the whole foods are and you'll eat junk much less often. I only have a cheat meal once a month and sometimes the gap is even longer.
> 
> Can't wait to hear about your progress!


Thanks! I've tried to lose weight in the past, but have never really committed myself to it. I'd keep it up for 2-3 weeks, then revert back to eating whatever I want.  But I feel this time will be different. I forgot to mention that I also have a food scale now, so when I eat meat at home, I cut it into 4 oz (115 g) portions. Then I throw the portions into little bags and freeze them. It's just a little legwork in the beginning, but it only takes about 15 minutes and then I have all my meat portions measured out for the next week or so.

Here are my stats:
Height: 5'8" (172 cm)
Weight: 250 lbs (114 kg)
BMI: 38.0
Waist: 40" (102 cm)

I played American football for 4 years in high school (I was a lineman--offensive tackle and defensive end), and I lifted heavy weights off and on throughout college and bulked up that way, so my body may be more dense than a lot of guys my height. But don't get me wrong, although I have some muscle mass, I have a lot of flab.  Probably a lot more flab than muscle now since I haven't lifted in years.  


Spoiler: Here's a video of what I look like:




That shirt is a size XXL and those shorts are baggy enough that my girlfriend can fit both her legs through one pant leg and pull it up over her hips and around her waist. I've had kind of a heavy frame since high school, but I wear a lot of baggy clothes so my weight isn't always immediately apparent. I've been told that I don't look as heavy as I am.  This shows my back rolls a little better:
Going long...



You're absolutely right about the cheat meals though--all month I've been eating fruit, low-fat cottage cheese, yogurt and protein shakes, so now whenever I eat something oily, I just feel...not good. It hits my stomach like a rock. I feel like it does a number on my GI tract and my intestines feel all bubbly and bloated. At this point I can probably scale back to one cheat meal a week and I won't miss the 2nd cheat meal. I think I'll give it a try.


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## Ethevion (Aug 1, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> Thanks! I've tried to lose weight in the past, but have never really committed myself to it. I'd keep it up for 2-3 weeks, then revert back to eating whatever I want. But I feel this time will be different. I forgot to mention that I also have a food scale now, so when I eat meat at home, I cut it into 4 oz (115 g) portions. Then I throw the portions into little bags and freeze them. It's just a little legwork in the beginning, but it only takes about 15 minutes and then I have all my meat portions measured out for the next week or so.
> 
> Here are my stats:
> Height: 5'8" (172 cm)
> ...




Getting the portions ready for the entire week is a great idea. It doesn't even feel like a chore anymore. 

So you're definitely a big guy with those stats. You most likely have a nice amount of muscle hidden under the fat too since you played football and worked out. There's definitely more fat than muscle, but now that you've set a goal, you can get to a stage where the fat is minimal. The Beachbody Insanity workout is good to start learning. The best thing to do in the end is to find the workouts that suit you and you feel the most gains from. More importantly, before you do any hard workouts, start with a light cardio session around 10 or so minutes. It'll help you during the workout so you don't feel light headed. Needless to say, it'll also help burn off more fat.

Something I try to stress to people is not to look at a meal plan as a diet, look at it as a life style. 

Also, great nunchuck skills!


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## Gahars (Aug 1, 2013)

Glad to hear about your progress, Den! And also, here's a little advice. If you're really craving ice cream for dessert, go to McDonald's or Burger King and order some of their soft serve. They only cost a dollar or so regularly (plus, they often go on sale - my local BK is offering cones for 50 cents right now) and are only 160 or so calories. You can still have a treat every now and then without having to worry about wrecking your calorie intake for the day.

Also, Burger King, McDonald's, and Chick-Fil-A (to the best of my knowledge) allow you to purchase grilled chicken patties separate from the rest of the sandwich for less than a dollar. It's a cheaper, healthier option if you ever need to grab some fast good.

Anyway, keep on keeping on, man. You're going to make it, bro. We're all going to make it.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Aug 1, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> I went to the doctor for a checkup and it turns out I'm hypertensive, so I decided I really need to do something about it.
> 
> For the past month I've been eating oatmeal with fruit every morning. I also invested in a juicer and have been juicing every vegetable and fruit I can get my hands on (protip: kale, wheatgrass and spinach juice keeps you on the toilet). I now drink soluble fiber. Not only does it keep me regular, but it also helps lower my cholesterol. I've cut most fats out of my diet and when I eat meat, I only eat grilled/baked white meat and raw fish. I've been counting my Calories, and just that alone has changed my eating habits for the better. I allow myself to consume 1600 Calories a day, which I think of as money in the bank, and the Calories of the foods I eat are like prices. When I think of it that way, all I have to do is not spend more money than I have. Each week, I allow myself two (and _only_ two) "cheat" meals and splurge on a satisfying burger, pizza, fried chicken, or whatever the hell I want. So far, it feels like something that I can stick with. The cheat meals allow me to feel like I'm not killing myself and give me something to look forward to as a reward for sticking with my plan.
> 
> ...


 
Really glad to hear you're looking out for your health!

Good luck, Dennie!


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## ilman (Aug 1, 2013)

Recently, I've been riding my bike quite a lot. Doing a couple of laps around the nearby lake is pretty damn relaxing. 
Also, I've been playing some football (or soccer for the Americans) with my friends since it's summer and everybody here is quite a huge fan of it. I find it a good sport to play, but incredibly boring to watch. I also sometimes go on table tennis practice when I'm bored(1 hour warm up and exercising moves+1 hour 1v1 matches). So I've been fit in terms of exercise.
But when it comes to diet, well...
Whenever I'm at my grandma's(most of the summer), she usually cooks pretty healthy for lunch(beans, rice and spinach, other similar soups) and very unhealthy stuff for breakfast(french toast, pancakes, grilled sandwiches) and dinner(pizza, french fries, other similar stuff). And I tend to eat waaay too much.
On the other hand, whenever I'm at home, I tend to undereat(if that's even a word). Since there's no one at home, I've got to make my own breakfast(either cornflakes or a croissant) and lunch(usually a sandwich with bacon and ketchup or something warmed up from yesterday), which I'm sometimes too lazy to even make. I kinda suck at cooking, so I don't risk it. And for dinner it goes either healthy or unhealthy, depending on how much time my mom has to cook(I help with the salad).
And about beverages, I tend to either drink water, 100% juice(if I'm not too lazy to make me some) or Fanta. Every day I drink at least one can of Fanta and, while it's unhealthy, it's my only real, how should I put it, 'weakness'  .
So, yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say.


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## Ethevion (Aug 2, 2013)

ilman said:


> Recently, I've been riding my bike quite a lot. Doing a couple of laps around the nearby lake is pretty damn relaxing.
> Also, I've been playing some football (or soccer for the Americans) with my friends since it's summer and everybody here is quite a huge fan of it. I find it a good sport to play, but incredibly boring to watch. I also sometimes go on table tennis practice when I'm bored(1 hour warm up and exercising moves+1 hour 1v1 matches). So I've been fit in terms of exercise.
> But when it comes to diet, well...
> Whenever I'm at my grandma's(most of the summer), she usually cooks pretty healthy for lunch(beans, rice and spinach, other similar soups) and very unhealthy stuff for breakfast(french toast, pancakes, grilled sandwiches) and dinner(pizza, french fries, other similar stuff). And I tend to eat waaay too much.
> ...


You're doing good on the physical activity part, but if you're trying to lose weight, it just wont be enough. For weight loss or even a body builder who's trying to get their abs more defined, the meal plan is the most important part. No matter how much exercise and cardio you do, the meal plan will have a bigger effect. You've got to learn how to cook. I can barely cook, but I've been practicing with easy stuff right now, grilling chicken burgers and what not. You need to start somewhere or you'll never get anywhere. Keep up the exercising and hopefully you'll find some motivation to learn how to cook.

You're doing good so far, don't stop now!


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## J-Machine (Aug 2, 2013)

ilman said:


> Recently, I've been riding my bike quite a lot. Doing a couple of laps around the nearby lake is pretty damn relaxing.
> Also, I've been playing some football (or soccer for the Americans) with my friends since it's summer and everybody here is quite a huge fan of it. I find it a good sport to play, but incredibly boring to watch. I also sometimes go on table tennis practice when I'm bored(1 hour warm up and exercising moves+1 hour 1v1 matches). So I've been fit in terms of exercise.
> But when it comes to diet, well...
> Whenever I'm at my grandma's(most of the summer), she usually cooks pretty healthy for lunch(beans, rice and spinach, other similar soups) and very unhealthy stuff for breakfast(french toast, pancakes, grilled sandwiches) and dinner(pizza, french fries, other similar stuff). And I tend to eat waaay too much.
> ...


while for the most part I agree with ethevion in the importance of diet for loosing weight; I'm a firm believer in the "work out then eat less approach" You want to have your body to be ready to perform with a less calorie load before starting it that Way it will be easier to know what your body will need and what can be taken away/replaced. If you are weight training definitely bulk up first and not worry about where the energy is coming from (but do add veggies and supplements to give your body everything else it'll need) in about three months time you should have your body ready for its "shock treatment" (changing your exercises up to break a plateau of development) this is when you want to watch what you eat in order to "cut" the muscles for better definition and of course have a body worth showing off your hard work.

If you are cardio heavy though then you can get away with starting your diet early so long as your eat plenty of greens and lean meats so that all energy is your fat and your recovery is met by what you eat. I REALLY hate cardio though so my knowledge on getting the best results there are lacking to say the least, however, nomatter what you do RECORD EVERYTHING YOU DO AND EAT! this will tell you if you have any deficits or surpluses in your diet and if your caloric intake is matching your needs. if you write out and share what you eat and drink, followed by what your activities are and we get a basal understanding of your height/age/gender/weight/ and stature, then I can get back to you on meal plans and exercise regiments to compliment your current lifestyle.


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## wrettcaughn (Aug 2, 2013)

I've plateaued with my diet related weight loss.  Mid-February to May I went from 195 down to 165 (I'm 5'6") just changing my diet.  I've since maintained which I'm very happy with.

I spend between 15 and 25 hours a week in my car for work and have a few things I do in a pinch:
- pack nuts or granola to take along.  Easy and safe to eat while driving.
- lots of water, though that also means bathroom breaks should your bladder be sensitive.  Sport drinks tend to be high in sodium and juice (even 100%) tends to have a lot of added sugar
- McDonald's snack wraps and Subway are not all that healthy, but I can't keep a packed meal in the car during the summer months so they are a fair option

I still have about 20 lbs. I'd like to lose but work is starting to slow down and am hoping the lack of 4am starts and 9pm finishes will free up some energy to get my running shoes back on.


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## grossaffe (Aug 2, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> I've plateaued with my diet related weight loss. Mid-February to May I went from 195 down to 165 (I'm 5'6") just changing my diet. I've since maintained which I'm very happy with.
> 
> I spend between 15 and 25 hours a week in my car for work and have a few things I do in a pinch:
> - pack nuts or granola to take along. Easy and safe to eat while driving.
> ...


 
If I were you, I'd be happy to be down to around 155 if you have the right kind of weight.  I'm currently sitting at 5'5" 150 which I'm mostly content with from a weight position.  Ideally, though, I'd like to get back to the gym and turn some more of that weight into muscle. and maybe even pick up a couple pounds.  Try going to the gym and picking up the free weights.  If you're not quite sure where to start, I'd recommend getting someone to show you the ropes the first couple times and then you can take it from there.


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## Densetsu (Aug 3, 2013)

So I just finished my first Insanity workout.

Holy. Sh*t. It just made me realize how out of shape I really am. Ten minutes later and I'm _still_ winded.

But, feels good man.

Only 62 more days to go.


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## ShadowSoldier (Aug 3, 2013)

So I've been going to the gym for about a month and a half. My routine consists of:

30 minutes of step climbing. I don't know how fast it is, but it's 3 miles and 500 calories.
Then I do flies, then ab workouts
leg curls
then I work on my calves, then I repeat it all.

About an hour and a half at the gym each time roughly 5 times a week. I've lost 10 pounds since but I've gained a lot more muscle.

One thing I'm trying to do, is not get a 6 pack, but turn my stomach hard. I have a bigger stomach so I want to make it hard.


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## J-Machine (Aug 3, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> I've plateaued with my diet related weight loss. Mid-February to May I went from 195 down to 165 (I'm 5'6") just changing my diet. I've since maintained which I'm very happy with.
> 
> I spend between 15 and 25 hours a week in my car for work and have a few things I do in a pinch:
> - pack nuts or granola to take along. Easy and safe to eat while driving.
> ...


few tips i can think of off the top of my head....
-hand grips in the car. you can use them during red lights and drop em to your lap after. this will get you ready for lifting heavier free weights and use up some free time
- a pinch of salt on your third bottle will help keeping you hydrated. bananas will to thanks to the potassium. in fact eat a lot of bananas. you wanna add muscle? these suckers help with recvovery and can help you get better results. one a meal would be good.
- learn to love protein and fats: by this I mean eggs, oatmeal, nuts, and coconut/olives. coconut in particular has medium chain triglycerides which is the healthiest fat and is second only to sugar for energy use. you body will no doubt burn every calorie of coconut oil you use when working out and is rarely stored else wise. the eggs are a complete protein so it will be a great boon to eat as many as possible.
-barely tea us used in asian countries to keep hydrated in the summer time and if drank enough is known to help with heat tolerance. i suggest replacing some of your water with this if possible served cold. (barley tea can be easily made by pan roasting pearl barley. then its 1tbs barley4 cups water.boil water, reduce heat add barley cover for 20mins and its ready)

its small changes but they really will help.

i'll respond more thoroughly to everyone on monday since its my day off.



Densetsu said:


> Thanks! I've tried to lose weight in the past, but have never really committed myself to it. I'd keep it up for 2-3 weeks, then revert back to eating whatever I want. But I feel this time will be different. I forgot to mention that I also have a food scale now, so when I eat meat at home, I cut it into 4 oz (115 g) portions. Then I throw the portions into little bags and freeze them. It's just a little legwork in the beginning, but it only takes about 15 minutes and then I have all my meat portions measured out for the next week or so.
> 
> Here are my stats:
> Height: 5'8" (172 cm)
> ...



i'm not sure how old you are (i put you at 28 from the video just to calculate my numbers) but from what you gave me and after looking at the insanity workout schedule (i'm also pretending you are of average bodytype) if you are following that regiment to a tee than this is your caloric needs:

to maintain your weight- 3218 a day

safe weight loss- 2575

minimum needed calories (it's here for reference and to prevent dangerous dieting habits - DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AMOUNT!!!-) 2000

I can't stress enough how bad the minimum is. it would seriously lesson your results from working out and decrease your performance. it also has the chance to make the body panic and store as much energy as it can reversing your hard work. I recommend 2700 first and adjusting to see what you need during your exercise plan and after the two months shoot for safe weight loss levels and less intense workout schedule (every other day intense cardio, non intense cardio days lifting weights and cardio to warm up)

as for diet itself... I hate recommending carbs but for these two months you would probably benefit from them. Still try to get as much protein and healthy fat as you can but never make carbs more than 1/3 of your caloric intake. also eat plenty of veggies to fill up. using a gainer or some casein before bed will also greatly aid in recovery, making your workouts more tolerable.

keep me posted on your progress or if you would like more info about supplements and a more in-depth meal plan recommendations



ShadowSoldier said:


> So I've been going to the gym for about a month and a half. My routine consists of:
> 
> 30 minutes of step climbing. I don't know how fast it is, but it's 3 miles and 500 calories.
> Then I do flies, then ab workouts
> ...


Glad to hear your making progress! also happy to see you put weight training into your cardio routine with the step climbing. Your progress is also typical so you certainly are on the right track with things. Slow and steady will always win this race so keep at er' as things will only get better from here.

you are about a month away from needing to change up your exercises to confuse your muscles and prevent a plateau though. rule of thumb for this. change the motions and concentrate on muscles near where you are targeting now. this will keep your progress until two months when you return to concentrating on them again to see better results.


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## Densetsu (Aug 5, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> keep me posted on your progress or if you would like more info about supplements and a more in-depth meal plan recommendations


Thanks for the advice, J-Machine!

I've been following the Insanity workouts to the tee, including drinking the Energy and Endurance formula 15 minutes before each workout and the Rest and Recovery formula after every workout. In the morning I have oatmeal with a Shakeology vanilla shake and I blend stuff into it for variety each day. After that I eat high-protein, moderate-carbs, low-fat foods several times throughout the day in small portions, but I've been keeping my calorie intake to between 1600-2000.

Merely counting my calories for the first month prior to starting Insanity seemed to work well because I never felt hungry and I still lost weight. But I have to admit, now that I'm working out, my stomach is rumbling a lot more and I feel hungry all the time now. I've upped my calorie intake to around 2500 per day, which has helped.

I did plyometrics on Friday and my legs were so cramped up that I couldn't walk all weekend. I was literally on the sofa in agony all Saturday and limping around all yesterday. I spend a good half hour stretching after every workout, in addition to another 10 minutes rolling a hard ball on my muscles to get the kinks out to minimize the muscle soreness, but do you have any other advice to reduce the cramping? I hear that bananas are good.


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## J-Machine (Aug 6, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> Thanks for the advice, J-Machine!
> 
> I've been following the Insanity workouts to the tee, including drinking the Energy and Endurance formula 15 minutes before each workout and the Rest and Recovery formula after every workout. In the morning I have oatmeal with a Shakeology vanilla shake and I blend stuff into it for variety each day. After that I eat high-protein, moderate-carbs, low-fat foods several times throughout the day in small portions, but I've been keeping my calorie intake to between 1600-2000.
> 
> ...


banana's gatorade, anything that hydrates and anything that aids in muscle recovery really.  also cut that out. plyometrics is for athletes, not those working their way to be one. the fact you hurt yourself is proof your calves are not ready for "explosive" training. switch to a step related exercise or skip rope, do squats or calve raises with free weights in your hands to give them what they can handle. Again plyometrics is not for the average joe, heck anyone worth their salt in a gym won't be doing it either. just don't do them. the last thing you need is tendon damage to make you hurt whenever a storm is coming.

now that the negatives are out of the way...  don't work out your legs for about a week. they need to recover. take this time instead to work on a diet plan that works for you. a good diet goes a long way in your overall health and should be something you enjoy enough to make a part of your lifestyle. watch some cooking shows on youtube or tv for ideas and research low impact excercises so that you are prepared the next time this might happen (which I hope it doesn't) for example. a bucket of sand is great for hand strength training (basically you dig into the sand with an open palm and grab at what you have as hard as you can but there are videos online for it)


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## grossaffe (Aug 6, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> now that the negatives are out of the way... don't work out your legs for about a week. they need to recover. take this time instead to work on a diet plan that works for you. a good diet goes a long way in your overall health and should be something you enjoy enough to make a part of your lifestyle. watch some cooking shows on youtube or tv for ideas and research low impact excercises so that you are prepared the next time this might happen (which I hope it doesn't) for example. a bucket of sand is great for hand strength training (basically you dig into the sand with an open palm and grab at what you have as hard as you can but there are videos online for it)


 
Yeah, when you first get to the gym, leg work will cripple you for about a week afterwards.  If your legs are still sore, then let them rest.  After a couple weeks at the gym, though the Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness will be a thing of the past and you'll be fine working a muscle group every other day (the day of rest is important, because that is when the muscle actually grows).  Upper body also suffers from DOMS, but to a lesser extent.



J-Machine said:


> this is a dangerous assessment. yes micro-tearing allows for bulking and greater muscle mass and DOMS is indeed an indicator of that process occurring BUT When a man is limping 48 hours after the exercise and that is considered an improvement, he is not exhibiting healthy muscle development, he has been given an injury. if the reaction is this intense you've guaranteed the opposite effects you wanted from working out (ever wonder why some people have muscles that bulge out like bubbles and are not uniform to the body's overall frame? it's because somebody was too intense with a workout and permanently damaged the muscle,)
> 
> a body can't magically adapt to something beyond it's capabilities by sheer determination alone. slow and steady wins this race and showing humility towards your strength will always make your efforts fruitful.


 
It's not magical adaptation.  A sedentary body is not used to the stress of working out and has poor recovery.  Our bodies adapt to many things, and it's not magic.  You yourself even mentioned the concept of plateauing from continuing the same workout for an extended period of time.  Your body adapts to the workout routine you have set up and you have to change things up to something it's not accustomed to.

“Although DOMS is associated with something negative, it’s actually a physiologically positive reaction,” says Dr. Szymanski. “Once your body is exposed to whatever made you sore, the next time your body will say, ‘I got it, I’ll protect you.’ It’s actually a beautiful thing.” http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/why-delayed-onset-muscle-soreness-good-thing


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## J-Machine (Aug 6, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> Yeah, when you first get to the gym, leg work will cripple you for about a week afterwards. If your legs are still sore, then let them rest. After a couple weeks at the gym, though the Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness will be a thing of the past and you'll be fine working a muscle group every other day (the day of rest is important, because that is when the muscle actually grows). Upper body also suffers from DOMS, but to a lesser extent.


being "crippled" from your workout is not healthy at all. I understand if moving your legs gives the impression you are walking in tar or some other thick liquid or a dull fiery sensation as those are healthy consequences of starting a workout routine but he said he was in pain and couldn't do anything for over a day. fun fact plyometrics rule of thumb is: if you can squat while holding 60% of your body weight and do 5 reps of it, then you can attempt the workout.

in other words do this

for example she can't do plyometrics but I'm sure she is somewhat athletic


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## grossaffe (Aug 6, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> being "crippled" from your workout is not healthy at all. I understand if moving your legs gives the impression you are walking in tar or some other thick liquid or a dull fiery sensation as those are healthy consequences of starting a workout routine but he said he was in pain and couldn't do anything for over a day. fun fact plyometrics rule of thumb is: if you can squat while holding 60% of your body weight and do 5 reps of it, then you can attempt the workout.
> 
> in other words do this


 
I suppose my description was a bit more hyperbolous than I intended it to be.  To put it another way, I had to plan my path around campus based on how I can avoid stairs for the next week.  Surprisingly going down stairs was worse than going up.  If you do an intense leg work out after such a long time _not_ working them out, they'll suffer from Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, which is nothing to be worried about.  It's rather expected.  Hell, I was a hockey player before I started going to the gym, so my legs were hardly inactive leading up to the gym, but that didn't prevent the DOMS.  Kept getting back to it each week, and in no time DOMS was no longer an issue.  Even my second time working out my legs after the initial resulted in a much milder and shorter-lived case of it.

Now he's already got the big one out of the way, he should be fine moving forward from here.


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## J-Machine (Aug 6, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> I suppose my description was a bit more hyperbolous than I intended it to be. To put it another way, I had to plan my path around campus based on how I can avoid stairs for the next week. Surprisingly going down stairs was worse than going up. If you do an intense leg work out after such a long time _not_ working them out, they'll suffer from Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, which is nothing to be worried about. It's rather expected. Hell, I was a hockey player before I started going to the gym, so my legs were hardly inactive leading up to the gym, but that didn't prevent the DOMS. Kept getting back to it each week, and in no time DOMS was no longer an issue. Even my second time working out my legs after the initial resulted in a much milder and shorter-lived case of it.
> 
> Now he's already got the big one out of the way, he should be fine moving forward from here.


this is a dangerous assessment. yes micro-tearing allows for bulking and greater muscle mass and DOMS is indeed an indicator of that process occurring BUT When a man is limping 48 hours after the exercise  and that is considered an improvement, he is not exhibiting healthy muscle development, he has been given an injury.  if the reaction is this intense you've guaranteed the opposite effects you wanted from working out (ever wonder why some people have muscles that bulge out like bubbles and are not uniform to the body's overall frame? it's because somebody was too intense with a workout and permanently damaged the muscle,)

a body can't magically adapt to something beyond it's capabilities by sheer determination alone. slow and steady wins this race and showing humility towards your strength will always make your efforts fruitful.



grossaffe said:


> It's not magical adaptation. A sedentary body is not used to the stress of working out and has poor recovery. Our bodies adapt to many things, and it's not magic. You yourself even mentioned the concept of plateauing from continuing the same workout for an extended period of time. Your body adapts to the workout routine you have set up and you have to change things up to something it's not accustomed to.
> 
> “Although DOMS is associated with something negative, it’s actually a physiologically positive reaction,” says Dr. Szymanski. “Once your body is exposed to whatever made you sore, the next time your body will say, ‘I got it, I’ll protect you.’ It’s actually a beautiful thing.” http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/why-delayed-onset-muscle-soreness-good-thing


yes but not to these extremes. Doms is simply a reaction and isn't actually making you stronger, rather it allows your body to realize it needs to "unlock" it's potential so next time it's better prepared. it's muscle memory for specific stressors. just because you can lift 50 pounds with poor form, you shouldn't keep doing it for example. you should hit around 65-80% of your max abilities at low reps (no more than 5-7) for safe results and that's for strength training. Dentetsu is doing endurance training in a body that thinks it's strength training instead. I'm telling him to do the parts he can do without pain and make substitutes for those that do hurt him because being sore and being in pain are two different animals.

Pain is an indicator of a problem. The body is rejecting further stressors to protect itself when it is in pain; not adjusting to stressors so it can be more prepared for next time. I seriously believe you don't understand that or you didn't fully grasp Dentetsu's situation.


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## Densetsu (Aug 6, 2013)

While I'm no stranger to sports conditioning, I'll admit it has been several years since I did anything this strenuous. I was very athletic for a good period of my life (played soccer in junior high, American football for 4 years in high school, and on top of that I did tae kwon do and karate for a few years as a university undergrad).

When I think of the word "hurt," I think of "injury." Just to clarify, I didn't _injure_ myself, I just cramped up. I definitely feel the burn during the workouts, which, for anyone who hasn't worked out for a long time, will always be felt over the next few days. It's completely normal for me to feel that burn. Whenever I don't lift weights for a long time and then suddenly start going again, I feel the same burn in my arms and chest after the first day of lifting (I'm a junkie for bench press, curls and triceps extension). After a long gym hiatus, the soreness gets so bad that the next morning I have to leave my arms at 90-degree angles because straightening them burns, and I can barely lift my hand to my mouth to eat. But once that initial burn goes away, it doesn't come back as long as I keep going to the gym to lift every few days. My legs are feeling a lot better now, but I just have to take it easy for a few more days. Insanity rotates through different workouts every day, so as long as I follow the program, I won't have to do plyo for another 3 days.

Fortunately each Insanity workout features at least one person doing a modified low-impact, "easier" version of the exercises. I was a bit overconfident in my abilities going into this program, so I've been powering through the "normal" version of each exercise. For now I'm going to try the easy version until I'm at 100%, but the important thing for me is to stick to the routine and not skip days because I'm trying to develop a habit out of this. Knowing my body, I don't think I'll feel the same cramping after the second round of plyo. If I do, then I'll just stick to the modified exercises until I lose some weight/develop more leg strength.

As for my diet, I think I've been managing it pretty well. I really don't think of it as a "diet," but more of a lifestyle change. It hasn't been too much of a shock to my system. I never thought I'd say this, but I actually love veggie burgers! And grilled chicken is so versatile to work with, not to mention satisfying. I really think I could stick with this long-term, as long as I don't overdo it and try to go vegetarian or vegan.


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## Ethevion (Aug 6, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> As for my diet, I think I've been managing it pretty well. I really don't think of it as a "diet," but more of a lifestyle change.


 
That put the biggest smile on my face. Well done.

As for the soreness, especially in the legs, eventually it'll stop bothering you. After enough workouts, you'll start to enjoy it. But the rest is still important. I'm not sure if it was mentioned or if I missed it, but it doesn't look like there was a comment on sleeping habits. As a part of recovery and growing, 7-8 hours of sleep each night is very important.

Keep up the good work Den.


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## J-Machine (Aug 6, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> While I'm no stranger to sports conditioning, I'll admit it has been several years since I did anything this strenuous. I was very athletic for a good period of my life (played soccer in junior high, American football for 4 years in high school, and on top of that I did tae kwon do and karate for a few years as a university undergrad).
> 
> When I think of the word "hurt," I think of "injury." Just to clarify, I didn't _injure_ myself, I just cramped up. I definitely feel the burn during the workouts, which, for anyone who hasn't worked out for a long time, will always be felt over the next few days. It's completely normal for me to feel that burn. Whenever I don't lift weights for a long time and then suddenly start going again, I feel the same burn in my arms and chest after the first day of lifting (I'm a junkie for bench press, curls and triceps extension). After a long gym hiatus, the soreness gets so bad that the next morning I have to leave my arms at 90-degree angles because straightening them burns, and I can barely lift my hand to my mouth to eat. But once that initial burn goes away, it doesn't come back as long as I keep going to the gym to lift every few days. My legs are feeling a lot better now, but I just have to take it easy for a few more days. Insanity rotates through different workouts every day, so as long as I follow the program, I won't have to do plyo for another 3 days.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I have erred on the far side of caution in my earlier replies but at no time during my time taking courses in fitness and nutrition (I'm actually trying to get into rehabilitation since I found out the education sector in my area is flooded for a good decade so I would be wasting my money going into spec ed.) have I ever heard of using such extreme cases of conditioning as a positive. My books and instructors have all told me while it's ok to have a body protest mobility of a muscle group, it should never get to the point of pain or actually limiting mobility as that has the dangers of permanent muscle damage. sure the muscles not affected can be much stronger than before but more favourable results can be easily achieved with patience and an understanding of your bodies limits and working within them (this is where the low rep 80% max sets come into play) Diet rest, and not stagnating in your routine are far more important than pushing your limits at their maximum constantly.

That is why I've been advocating a "slow and steady" approach to results. Not only does it work, but it helps build routine in a way that won't discourage early adopters of a fitness routine and thus morale (very important) has less of a chance of being impacted negatively. Yes this can feel like I'm treating everyone like beginners but when I can't be there to ensure someone can do their best in a safe and encouraging environment, I feel better as a reactor to each individual rather than straight out instructing someone with a full blown regiment I can't be sure is capable of being done correctly or even at all.

That being said I applaud your determination and your comfort in how your body is reacting to your workouts. Above all else I want you to succeed with your goals so If you need anything let me know and i'll try my best to help you. Be safe, work hard, eat well, and above all else have fun. I'm rooting for ya buddy.


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## Densetsu (Aug 7, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> That being said I applaud your determination and your comfort in how your body is reacting to your workouts. Above all else I want you to succeed with your goals so If you need anything let me know and i'll try my best to help you. Be safe, work hard, eat well, and above all else have fun. I'm rooting for ya buddy.


I understand and appreciate your advice and concern, and it's always better to err on the side of caution. Having spoken with you before, both here and in PMs, and knowing your professional background it's clear that you know exactly what you're talking about, and I will always defer to expert advice. I'm sure you know that everyone's body is different and each body reacts differently to exercise and pain. I have never pushed myself to the point of injury; I know to stop well before I ever reach that point. I know the difference between "good" pain and "bad" pain (I'm one of those guys who says "it hurts so good"  ) and I'm quite comfortable with "good" pain.  I just listen to my body and I stop as soon as I feel light-headed or as soon as my muscles give out. But whenever I reach the point of fatigue, I always tell myself "Just one more time...one more time..." and push through.

Thanks for your support everyone and I'll definitely be checking in here with my progress and for more advice 
J-Machine
Ethevion
Phoenix Goddess
Gahars
grossaffe
wrettcaughn
EZ-Megaman
et al.


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## ShadowSoldier (Aug 7, 2013)

I just got back from the Gym.

I got checked out harsh by 3 different girls. I'm starting to think people are right, and even though I weigh more, I'm not fat, and that I just have a lot of muscle.

I did stomach crunches/abs at 160 pounds. I did flies at 150 pounds. I upped it up and pushed it harder. Gonna try it again tomorrow. Feels good.

Fuck sakes, I might have to take it easy on the stomach exercises, I'm getting abs, I don't want abs.


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## J-Machine (Aug 7, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I just got back from the Gym.
> 
> I got checked out harsh by 3 different girls. I'm starting to think people are right, and even though I weigh more, I'm not fat, and that I just have a lot of muscle.
> 
> ...


cut the weight down till you can easily do 12 reps of it. you should maintain what you have without getting more definition that way. though the better option would be just to eat more. those strong men competitions on tv? they all have fat layers to protect their muscles and is why they have hard, less defined torsos.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 18, 2013)

Was playing Dream Team and noticed this.







Let us pay our respects to Muscle Lord Biceptus.


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## Densetsu (Sep 8, 2013)

So it's been a little over a month since I started Insanity.  I'm still doing it, and I've only skipped a few days since I started (but I'd try to make up for it the following day by doubling up on the workouts).  This entire time I've been able to stick to my eating plan with no problems, except for the few times last month I went out to dinner with friends.  

To be honest, I haven't lost as much weight as I thought I would in the first month.  I started out at 250 lbs (114 kg), and now I weigh 241 lbs (109 kg).  I've lost 2 inches off my waistline.  Prior to starting Insanity, I lost 20 lbs just through watching my calories alone for a month (not exceeding 1600 Calories per day).  I thought that throwing an intense exercise regimen on top of that would accelerate the results.  Granted, I've upped my caloric intake to around around 2200-2400 Calories a day since starting Insanity.  I don't plan on going back down to 1600 while on Insanity otherwise I'd feel like I'm starving all the time.  With my current workout schedule and current caloric intake, my stomach always feels comfortable.  At any given moment in the day it's about 50-80% full, as opposed to my old eating habit of going from starving to "I-can't-eat-another-bite-or-I'll-explode."  

On the outside I don't _look_ much different from when I started (I do look a _little_ thinner), but I feel much better on the inside.  Just a few examples of internal changes: I feel like I'm taking in much more air with each breath I take.  It kind of makes me feel more alert.  My lower back doesn't feel strained anymore when I stand at the kitchen sink for 20 minutes washing dishes.  When I wake up in the morning 15-30 minutes before my alarm, I don't feel the need to close my eyes and sleep until the alarm goes off anymore--I just jump out of bed and get on with my day.  Another thing I've noticed is that I sweat more now.  Even when I'm just sitting down, my whole body just feels warmer and my palms start sweating for no reason.  It's neither a good nor a bad thing, just...different.  

The second month of Insanity is supposed to ramp up the intensity, so I'm looking forward to seeing more improvement.  I may have to do a few rounds (one round being 60 days) before I reach my fitness goals, though.


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## Sop (Sep 8, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> Perhaps I have erred on the far side of caution in my earlier replies but at no time during my time taking courses in fitness and nutrition (I'm actually trying to get into rehabilitation since I found out the education sector in my area is flooded for a good decade so I would be wasting my money going into spec ed.) have I ever heard of using such extreme cases of conditioning as a positive. My books and instructors have all told me while it's ok to have a body protest mobility of a muscle group, it should never get to the point of pain or actually limiting mobility as that has the dangers of permanent muscle damage. sure the muscles not affected can be much stronger than before but more favourable results can be easily achieved with patience and an understanding of your bodies limits and working within them (this is where the low rep 80% max sets come into play) Diet rest, and not stagnating in your routine are far more important than pushing your limits at their maximum constantly.
> 
> That is why I've been advocating a "slow and steady" approach to results. Not only does it work, but it helps build routine in a way that won't discourage early adopters of a fitness routine and thus morale (very important) has less of a chance of being impacted negatively. Yes this can feel like I'm treating everyone like beginners but when I can't be there to ensure someone can do their best in a safe and encouraging environment, I feel better as a reactor to each individual rather than straight out instructing someone with a full blown regiment I can't be sure is capable of being done correctly or even at all.
> 
> That being said I applaud your determination and your comfort in how your body is reacting to your workouts. Above all else I want you to succeed with your goals so If you need anything let me know and i'll try my best to help you. Be safe, work hard, eat well, and above all else have fun. I'm rooting for ya buddy.


 
Since you stated you took courses in fitness and nutrition, can you (or anybody else who wants to) give me some advice on working out a training schedule for my sport: outrigging/outrigger canoeing. It mainly uses legs and core and back. although upper body helps too. I need help with diet (actually, just eat a lot of food while trying to get as much protein as possible right? idk correct me if I'm wrong), training and what ever the fuck a fitness goal is.


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## J-Machine (Sep 8, 2013)

Sop said:


> Since you stated you took courses in fitness and nutrition, can you (or anybody else who wants to) give me some advice on working out a training schedule for my sport: outrigging/outrigger canoeing. It mainly uses legs and core and back. although upper body helps too. I need help with diet (actually, just eat a lot of food while trying to get as much protein as possible right? idk correct me if I'm wrong), training and what ever the fuck a fitness goal is.


give me about a week to figure a plan of sorts out. In the meantime It wouldn't to let me know what kind of excercise equipment you have as well as the kind of landscape/type of property you live on. uphill biking, for example is an unorthodox but great cardio/lower body exercise or if you are in a farm you can do a lot of stuff with hay bales and rope like i used to.

as far as diet you have a good idea. on non competition days you want high protein/fat low carbs with multivitamin chaser. by fat I mean good fats like olive and coconut or lean meat fats. protein from non beef sources are great but loving eggs and pulses (chickpeas other lentils) can be cheaper and easier to come by. eggs also have everything needed for a body to actually absorb what it gives you and is the best option.  carbs I'd limit to after workouts, and pre competition, and whenever the other foods can't be had but try to stay away from gluten sources. of course if you are still growing however don't take what I say religiously as your body can handle the sugary goodness breads will throw at you. Also have a cheat day to support any diet choices you make. (I for one binge on foods I deny myself eventually so this really helps) 

again i'll help out more once i got a better idea of what you are working with. OH! no nitrate treated foods like bacon if possible it doesn't do your muscle development any favours


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## J-Machine (Sep 8, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> give me about a week to figure a plan of sorts out. In the meantime It wouldn't to let me know what kind of excercise equipment you have as well as the kind of landscape/type of property you live on. uphill biking, for example is an unorthodox but great cardio/lower body exercise or if you are in a farm you can do a lot of stuff with hay bales and rope like i used to.
> 
> as far as diet you have a good idea. on non competition days you want high protein/fat low carbs with multivitamin chaser. by fat I mean good fats like olive and coconut or lean meat fats. protein from non beef sources are great but loving eggs and pulses (chickpeas other lentils) can be cheaper and easier to come by. eggs also have everything needed for a body to actually absorb what it gives you and is the best option. carbs I'd limit to after workouts, and pre competition, and whenever the other foods can't be had but try to stay away from gluten sources. of course if you are still growing however don't take what I say religiously as your body can handle the sugary goodness breads will throw at you. Also have a cheat day to support any diet choices you make. (I for one binge on foods I deny myself eventually so this really helps)
> 
> again i'll help out more once i got a better idea of what you are working with. OH! no nitrate treated foods like bacon if possible it doesn't do your muscle development any favours


oh forgot to ask what your role on the canoe is. exercises that mimic your movements you need to make would help out.


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## J-Machine (Sep 8, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> So it's been a little over a month since I started Insanity. I'm still doing it, and I've only skipped a few days since I started (but I'd try to make up for it the following day by doubling up on the workouts). This entire time I've been able to stick to my eating plan with no problems, except for the few times last month I went out to dinner with friends.
> 
> To be honest, I haven't lost as much weight as I thought I would in the first month. I started out at 250 lbs (114 kg), and now I weigh 241 lbs (109 kg). I've lost 2 inches off my waistline. Prior to starting Insanity, I lost 20 lbs just through watching my calories alone for a month (not exceeding 1600 Calories per day). I thought that throwing an intense exercise regimen on top of that would accelerate the results. Granted, I've upped my caloric intake to around around 2200-2400 Calories a day since starting Insanity. I don't plan on going back down to 1600 while on Insanity otherwise I'd feel like I'm starving all the time. With my current workout schedule and current caloric intake, my stomach always feels comfortable. At any given moment in the day it's about 50-80% full, as opposed to my old eating habit of going from starving to "I-can't-eat-another-bite-or-I'll-explode."
> 
> ...


 
Since you are also building muscle mass that amount of weight loss sounds normal for the time frame given. remember muscle weighs a lot more than fat and that muscle weight can seem to mask the loss of fat mass but in reality it is showing off just how successful you are so far. I remember being 137, going down to 116, and then rising to 132 in the span of one semester. I was a little smaller but I weighed about the same and felt far better than I had before starting said semester. I'd say keep up the good work. You are doing great!

lemmie know how things go I love hearing success stories and It sounds like you are well on your way to having one.


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## Sop (Sep 8, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> give me about a week to figure a plan of sorts out. In the meantime It wouldn't to let me know what kind of excercise equipment you have as well as the kind of landscape/type of property you live on. uphill biking, for example is an unorthodox but great cardio/lower body exercise or if you are in a farm you can do a lot of stuff with hay bales and rope like i used to.
> 
> as far as diet you have a good idea. on non competition days you want high protein/fat low carbs with multivitamin chaser. by fat I mean good fats like olive and coconut or lean meat fats. protein from non beef sources are great but loving eggs and pulses (chickpeas other lentils) can be cheaper and easier to come by. eggs also have everything needed for a body to actually absorb what it gives you and is the best option. carbs I'd limit to after workouts, and pre competition, and whenever the other foods can't be had but try to stay away from gluten sources. of course if you are still growing however don't take what I say religiously as your body can handle the sugary goodness breads will throw at you. Also have a cheat day to support any diet choices you make. (I for one binge on foods I deny myself eventually so this really helps)
> 
> again i'll help out more once i got a better idea of what you are working with. OH! no nitrate treated foods like bacon if possible it doesn't do your muscle development any favours


I have a bench/leg press in my garage and some freestanding weights and a skipping rope. I also live within walking distance of a gym and I have a bike. I can't practice outrigging everyday as they are the clubs canoes and I can't buy one myself because they are to expensive for me. (15 y/o)



J-Machine said:


> oh forgot to ask what your role on the canoe is. exercises that mimic your movements you need to make would help out.


 
Well, I paddle in a 2-man, 1 man and 6 man canoe. So in the 6 man I sometimes keep time, but apart from that I don't steer other than in the 1 or 2 man, which you have foot pedals for. So basically, paddling.


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## J-Machine (Sep 19, 2013)

Sop said:


> I have a bench/leg press in my garage and some freestanding weights and a skipping rope. I also live within walking distance of a gym and I have a bike. I can't practice outrigging everyday as they are the clubs canoes and I can't buy one myself because they are to expensive for me. (15 y/o)
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I paddle in a 2-man, 1 man and 6 man canoe. So in the 6 man I sometimes keep time, but apart from that I don't steer other than in the 1 or 2 man, which you have foot pedals for. So basically, paddling.


Sorry for the long wait. inbetween working, and preparing for my new puppy I have had little to no time to prepare an exercise plan for you. It will be coming early next week though as on saturday I have a week off to spend with my puppy and do the mandatory training. For now though I would highly recommend free weights. a rowing motion uses several muscle groups to be performed efficiently. in fact untill I get back to you with a more refined plan I'd concentrate on abs, dorsal, pectoral and shoulders above all other areas.

for example get two weights you can lift up to your collar bone with arms extended fully in front of you 8 times. start with that movement then move each arm, while still  in the air, till they look like this: L------B-----R (L= left hand, B=body, R=right hand) then bring them down to your sides so the hand is at hip level. repeat these movements but make sure the movements are slow but steady.

keep these weights and use them while you do crunches for added resistance.

the key here is to do 8-10 reps of the excercise since you are going for endurance. also don't be afraid of carbs when you eat as you'll need em when rowing.


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## Sop (Sep 19, 2013)

J-Machine said:


> Sorry for the long wait. inbetween working, and preparing for my new puppy I have had little to no time to prepare an exercise plan for you. It will be coming early next week though as on saturday I have a week off to spend with my puppy and do the mandatory training. For now though I would highly recommend free weights. a rowing motion uses several muscle groups to be performed efficiently. in fact untill I get back to you with a more refined plan I'd concentrate on abs, dorsal, pectoral and shoulders above all other areas.
> 
> for example get two weights you can lift up to your collar bone with arms extended fully in front of you 8 times. start with that movement then move each arm, while still in the air, till they look like this: L------B-----R (L= left hand, B=body, R=right hand) then bring them down to your sides so the hand is at hip level. repeat these movements but make sure the movements are slow but steady.
> 
> ...


 
no problem man, thanks for the help.

i got some help from my brother as he is into fitness and bodybuilding too (he weighs about 240 LB)


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## Densetsu (Sep 10, 2015)

Sorry for the bump, but I've been told that bumping a thread is ok as long as the post is relevant to the topic. I figured this topic is worth reviving anyway.



J-Machine said:


> lemmie know how things go I love hearing success stories and It sounds like you are well on your way to having one.


Since my last post on this thread, I lost 70 lbs (32 kg) and I just wanted to share. Besides, I owe J-Machine a success story 


Spoiler










I just started eating cleanly (fewer carbs, more fish and lean meat, more fruits and veggies) and going to the gym consistently (3-5 times/day, working different muscle groups every day), and doing cardio after lifting. Ironically, my caloric intake was much higher (2800-3200 calories/day) when I dropped all this weight.

In the June 2015 pic, I weighed 213 lbs (97 kg). Now I weigh 195 lbs (89 kg). I'm trying to reach my goal of 170 lbs by next summer.


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## Hungry Friend (Sep 11, 2015)

I've cut sugar out almost completely aside from fruit, cut bread mostly out but I still eat some, but mostly I just count calories and try not to surpass 2000 calories on average per week. Eating tons of protein helps with hunger as does eating green veggies like broccoli(not my favorite thing but oh well), spinach, kale etc because not only do they have fiber and water in them to fill you up but they're incredibly nutritious. I don't know about bodyfat % or anything but I'm a pretty average sized guy: 5'9 150 lbs. Last June I was all the way up to fucking 275 so right now my main goals are to maintain my current weight, drop as much fat as possible and gain a few pounds of muscle.

btw, I have found that if you're cutting weight/at a caloric deficit, a combination of a high protein diet and Creatine supplementation works wonders, but naturally it helps to life weights too. Creatine causes your muscles to hold more water so you need to drink about 2x the water you normally do if you take it, and *you* *do not need to load or cycle it* even though some people will say to do so.(bullshit bro science) With Monohydrate, simply take around 5g per day. I don't seem to respond to mono so I use HCL, but I'm rambling. Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin D and fish oil are also very good supplements to take for bone and muscle health along with a multivitamin. Get plenty of calcium too.

I'm WAY too lazy about exercising so my diet is very strict. I lift a little but I need to start swimming again.

*EDIT:* Congrats Densetsu; that's fucking fantastic. Keeping the weight off is the toughest part so don't take your foot off the gas when you reach your ideal weight, but also make sure you don't starve yourself and make sure to eat plenty of protein to prevent muscle loss.


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## Densetsu (Sep 13, 2015)

Hungry Friend said:


> *EDIT:* Congrats Densetsu; that's fucking fantastic. Keeping the weight off is the toughest part so don't take your foot off the gas when you reach your ideal weight, but also make sure you don't starve yourself and make sure to eat plenty of protein to prevent muscle loss.


Thanks! I have no intention of going back to my old eating habits; I've struck a good balance between eating the foods I love and still eating healthy, and it works for me so it's something I can stick with. I never starve myself, I'm constantly eating throughout the day.



Hungry Friend said:


> ...I'm a pretty average sized guy: 5'9 150 lbs. Last June I was all the way up to fucking 275....


I'm 5'8" and I thought 170 would be really skinny for me 

How did you go from 275 to 150? And without exercising? That's impressive. How long did it take? And did you end up with loose skin after losing all that weight? I don't want to go down to 150 because I want to be muscular, but if you have any tips for cutting, I'd appreciate them


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## Hungry Friend (Sep 13, 2015)

1 year, and I did exercise a lot for the first 6-7 months but kinda coasted only working out 1-3 times a week after that, and not nearly hard enough. My weird little strategy is to eat one BIG meal a day, allowing myself to stuff myself but I make sure it's no more than 1700-2200 calories depending on whether I work out or not. Sometimes I'll eat, say, 1600 calories for 4-5 days and then have a bit of a pigout day so this diet is very hard to maintain and I need to find a healthy balance. Creatine HCL, protein shakes and minor weight lifting have kept me from losing muscle and strength. I also take a combo of Zinc, Magnesium, vitamin D3 and fish oil(plus a multivitamin) to make sure I get enough nutrients since my diet is so strict. Zinc, Magnesium and D3 also have the added benefit of slightly enhancing testosterone levels although I don't really notice anything since I have never had T issues. I'm 31 so I simply want to keep my levels from dropping without taking roids or anything else that'll fuck with my hormones.

Small to moderate amounts of caffeine(like 2 cups of coffee/day) help with appetite control as well, but I don't use any other stimulants/appetite suppressants. If you start to feel unusually hungry and need to pig out, just make sure the extra calories are mostly protein. I make sure I have no junkfood around and I substitute protein bars for regular junkfood when I do pig out to minimize damage. Just average your calories every week and make sure you don't surpass your intake goal even if you do pig out.

I'm inherently an all or nothing extremist so it's very hard for me to find that delicate balance between eating too little and eating too much, but so far so good. I'm probably gonna eat a little extra today though because I was famished all night & couldn't sleep, although I had 1700 calories yesterday.

Avoid soy as much as you can( a little won't hurt but don't eat large amounts) because it contains chemicals similar to estrogen which are very bad for men; flax seed is even worse in that regard. Green veggies are good at clearing your body of such chemicals, especially broccoli.


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## Densetsu (Sep 16, 2015)

Hungry Friend said:


> 1 year...


Yep, sounds like you and I both did a lot of the same things as far as diet and supplements are concerned. I heard all the same things about zinc, magnesium and fish oil, also that zinc helps with absorption of nutrients, not just T-boosting. I also drink two cups of black coffee every day, but mostly because I need to stay alert and study. The appetite control is an added bonus. I was bulking for a while, and during that phase I ate a lot of lamb Greek salads and at least one whole rotisserie chicken every day, sometimes two. I've been avoiding soy for the same reason. I think the major difference between our strategies is that I'm consuming nearly double the calories that you are. But I'm also consistently exercising, so I get really hungry and I have to eat.


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## Hungry Friend (Sep 16, 2015)

I think the main reason for that is I'm simply trying to lean out while you're trying to bulk up. I mostly use those supplements to prevents muscle loss, but with that said I am stronger than I was when I was like 200 lbs so it seems to have worked. I've maintained muscle and strength while dropping a ton of fat weight, but I definitely need to lift more often. I try to get around 100g of protein per day, especially on workout days. I have insomnia(need to buy some melatonin) so lack of sleep is often what keeps me from wanting to work out.

Also, I've heard very mixed thing about L-glutamine but I started taking around 5g of it with my protein shakes along with the Creatine and while I don't think it'll make much of a difference, I've heard it also prevents muscle loss, especially if you're at a caloric deficit. BCAAs are also apparently good if you're at a deficit and trying to maintain strength but useless if you take in plenty of calories and protein.

You have any other supplement experience? I don't wanna mess with the hormonal stuff but I have nothing against people using roids or GH as long as they're doing it outside of athletic competition.

*edit:* Had a seriously bad pigout/binge day yesterday, which happens from time to time but pretty rarely. Had like 4000-4500 calories so it fucks with my average for the week and it's gonna take a good bit of hard work to make up for it. As long as I don't do it again for a while I'll be fine, but I'm a perfectionist so I always beat myself up badly when I fuck up.


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## Densetsu (Sep 26, 2015)

Hungry Friend said:


> You have any other supplement experience? I don't wanna mess with the hormonal stuff but I have nothing against people using roids or GH as long as they're doing it outside of athletic competition.


Besides vitamins and protein powder, I haven't really tried much else. As a med student, everything I've learned tells me that creatine doesn't really work, but there must be something to it if it's one of the best-selling supplements, so I'm willing to give it a try--can't hurt. The worst thing that happens is that I waste money. I know that creatine causes the muscles to retain water, so it's probably more for looks than for increasing functional strength. When someone sees the increase in bulk, it motivates them to workout harder, which is the actual cause for the increase in strength. I have nothing against others using hormones to bulk up, but personally it's not something I would do myself.


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## Hungry Friend (Sep 27, 2015)

Densetsu said:


> Besides vitamins and protein powder, I haven't really tried much else. As a med student, everything I've learned tells me that creatine doesn't really work, but there must be something to it if it's one of the best-selling supplements, so I'm willing to give it a try--can't hurt. The worst thing that happens is that I waste money. I know that creatine causes the muscles to retain water, so it's probably more for looks than for increasing functional strength. When someone sees the increase in bulk, it motivates them to workout harder, which is the actual cause for the increase in strength. I have nothing against others using hormones to bulk up, but personally it's not something I would do myself.



Huh, I never really responded to common Creatine Monohydrate but HCL did provide literally an immediate(but very mild) strength boost, ie adding a few reps or a few more pounds to certain lifts along with more endurance. I believe there's a possibility it could be at least in part placebo but the HCL gave me enough of a boost that I'm pretty sure it's the real deal, and it's also supposed to be good for preventing muscle loss when cutting weight but I'm not sure about that. Monohydrate is much cheaper than HCL and is the most commonly used and most researched type of Creatine, however. Loading phases and cycling provide no benefits and it's not like you're gonna get steroid-like results from it. It basically gives me a very slight strength/endurance increase and speeds up recovery time a bit but I have to make sure to drink around double the amount of water I did before I started taking it.

Had another 3000 calorie pigout day yesterday, but I'm also weighing like 147 when I wake up in the morning so maybe I needed one.(5'9, so I'm getting a little too light, especially since that's while being on Creatine which makes me retain water) Least I took in like 150g of protein and didn't binge on junkfood. Mostly binged on meat and protein bars.


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