# Child Pornography case that caused 3DS DoA sale ban finally over



## Mazor (Jun 15, 2012)

> Spoiler: Swedish
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 DN (Swedish, excerpt above translated by me.)

For those unfamiliar with Lundströms case, it has been the cause of much debate between supporters and non-supporters of child pornography laws for fictional and virtual content. Specifically of interest to this forum could be that it was allegedly the reason Nintendo chose to not sell 3DS DoA in northern Europe.

When I searched it seemed that the news of this final ruling had not been picked up by English media yet. If anyone finds an English source, I'll gladly edit it in.

Apart from being a big victory for supporters of freedom, as the police says in the interview in the linked article the ruling is an indication that the police can focus on real child pornography crimes instead of ones involving only fantasy figures.


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## AlanJohn (Jun 15, 2012)

So a person was about to go to jail for drawing loli?
Wut.


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## ThePowerOutage (Jun 15, 2012)

Great. No need to trash my loli stash now.

But yeah. Real child porn is a lot more messed up than a drawing, thats what need to be tackled.

Though some loli is just fucked up, its still not as big a problem. No one is really hurt by it unlike real child porn


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## Mazor (Jun 15, 2012)

AlanJohn said:


> So a person was about to go to jail for drawing loli?


Not sure why you would draw the conclusion that he drew them as it is nowhere said that he did, he simply had them on his harddrive. Ironically he could not have even have been convicted in the first place had he drawn the images himself, as according to the Swedish law on child pornography the law does not apply to any work created by the possessor (second sentence under 10 b § in the link).


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## Lostbhoy (Jun 15, 2012)

Will you all still be supporting this guy if it leads to actual child porn? Pics of kids in any pornographic nature is fucked up in my opinion....drawing or not, 
he's still fantasising about a child......fucking weirdo imho.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future he's up on actual indecent child images.


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## ThePowerOutage (Jun 15, 2012)

Big differance between loli and child porn. 
Though we have no idea how young the characters in question are portrayed as. If its prepubescent then thats sick and he should be locked up. If not then the right decision was made


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## Shano56 (Jun 15, 2012)

awesome...so people can still get their perv on and look at DRAWINGS of young children, instead of actual children. I do agree, however, that its _better _than looking at actual CP, because it's fucked up, and exploits children who cannot defend themselves, but nonetheless, kinda weird


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## FireGrey (Jun 15, 2012)

How is it even child porn?
It's just possible to look up a little girls skirt, you can do that in real life you know.


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## AlanJohn (Jun 15, 2012)

Mazor said:


> AlanJohn said:
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> > So a person was about to go to jail for drawing loli?
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Wait, so he didn't make anything, he just had some loli on his hard drive? He could have gone to jail for this?
What kind of retarded laws are in that country


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## Lostbhoy (Jun 15, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> How is it even child porn?
> It's just possible to look up a little girls skirt, you can do that in real life you know.



You get a grip of yourself. Even if that opportunity presented itself.....any normal human being just wouldn't look in that remote direction. Whether its a drawing or not, its a gateway to actual real child images imo. Why on earth would you have a pornagraphic fanatasy depiction of a child in the first place????

Your as sick as the fuck in the OP story.....


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## Narayan (Jun 15, 2012)

AlanJohn said:


> Mazor said:
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many think loli is as bad as actual child porn. since the idea of abusing a child is still there.
and they think there's also a chance that this might lead to child porn/[censored].




Lostbhoy said:


> FireGrey said:
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> > How is it even child porn?
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i do get your opinion. but not everyone who faps over images would do it in real life. 
it's just a drawing, an imagination, some of them know the boundary between real and one's fantasy. 

would i go to jail if enjoy the thought of killing harry potter? but would not actually kill someone resembling him, i'll even help him if he needs help in something.


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## Mazor (Jun 15, 2012)

Lostbhoy said:


> Will you all still be supporting this guy if it leads to actual child porn? Pics of kids in any pornographic nature is fucked up in my opinion....drawing or not,
> he's still fantasising about a child......fucking weirdo imho.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future he's up on actual indecent child images.
> ...


You're entitled to have your own opinion on whether possesion of images of non-existing fictional minors should be illegal or not, but please spend at least two seconds looking at the context before openly speculating about whether Lundström is a pedophile who would commit the crime of possesing child pornography involving real children, calling him a sick fuck. You've made it very clear that you know nothing about the man already, please stop arbitrarily accusing him before you've at least taken an actual look on who he is. This is not some random dude we're talking about, it's the sole Swedish translator of numerous manga works (One Piece, Detective Conan and Neon Genesis Evangelion to name a few) and has a collection of over 4000 comics. Of all the images in this collection and everything else stored on his hard drives, a mere 39 (of which in the end just one was deemed severely offending) were deemed as offending.

Even though he was freed by the supreme court in the end, the man already lost his job as a translator upon the initial ruling and has obviously taken a huge hit to his reputation as a result of all the media coverage following his conviction. The least you could do to respect him is to wait with calling him things like a sick fuck until you've at the very least taken a glimpse on his situation and character.


AlanJohn said:


> Wait, so he didn't make anything, he just had some loli on his hard drive? He could have gone to jail for this?
> What kind of retarded laws are in that country


He would have lost the case had he not appealed twice. To name another good law we have in this country: while it's legal to be a prostitute and sell sex, to buy sex is illegal.


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## The Milkman (Jun 15, 2012)

While I find Loli and real child porn sick, I am glad that people aren't stupid enough to send a guy to jail for drawing it. I mean, its not a real kid. The whole point of banning child porn is to prevent molestation and sexual abuse (trust me. If child porn was legal there would ve a lot more of it then there is now) loli bypasses the whole point by having the children never exsist.

Also Lostbhoy, there's a huge difference between someone being turned on something when its real, and when its drawn or writen. In fact, the whole reason drawn porn exist is so people can "feel good" without having the partner hurt, take guro, it has HUGE amounts of [censored], murder and torture, that's the whole fucking reason its drawn. If we just flat out say that anything you draw or imagine is just as bad as it being real then I'm pretty sure you could be sent to prison for attempted murder just because you thought about killing someone sometime.


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## Elrinth (Jun 15, 2012)

Read about it. the pics he had on his hdd was of "fantasy" children. Ie drawings. So if I draw a child getting raped by a monster. I should be put to jail? No way. Fucking good he good freed.. Freedom of expression thru drawings is important.
Who the fuck defines the age of the girls I draw? Maybe they are 60 year old bags who used youth potions? Others should give a shit what I draw.

Oh and btw, completely unrelevant to this particular post. Watch Indie Game: The Movie. It was great drama  Came to think of it cause one of the guys in the movie drew weird monsters when he was a child and his teacher wanted him examined by doctors because of this.


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## notmeanymore (Jun 15, 2012)

Narayan said:


> Lostbhoy said:
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He's referring to DoA, not loli.



Mazor said:


> AlanJohn said:
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> > So a person was about to go to jail for drawing loli?
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Wait wait wait. So you're saying that if I took CP pictures in Sweden it would be okay because I was the photographer??


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## Midna (Jun 15, 2012)

Lostbhoy said:


> Will you all still be supporting this guy if it leads to actual child porn? Pics of kids in any pornographic nature is fucked up in my opinion....drawing or not,
> he's still fantasising about a child......fucking weirdo imho.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future he's up on actual indecent child images.


Yeah, and weed leads to heroine. Hurr.


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## Gahars (Jun 15, 2012)

On the one hand, yeah, I definitely can't say I approve of the content this guy was in possession of. On the other hand, I definitely understand that ruling against him could have had some nasty repercussions down the road. So... ugh.


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## Rydian (Jun 15, 2012)

If you've watched an episode of Shin Chan (such as when it aired on cartoon network) where he does the "Mr. Elephant Dance", then you've viewed anime drawings of an underage boy's genitals.


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## Lostbhoy (Jun 15, 2012)

I can only assume those who fight guys case are fans of the same or similar content. Personally, I am of mature enough mind to avoid any of that crap.....whether you feel its an amazing art form or not, the issue remains of the indecent portrayal of children.....real or not, you have to be a sick fuck to work with or enjoy looking at such material.....PERIOD!

So the guy was a translator for sick fucks? Oh, that makes it allright then!! Someone made the point earlier that there is a difference between the real thing and the fake thing, and someone should know the difference.....YES, they should and should also be of mature enough mind to say "No, I will not translate this filth for any amount of money."

I mean.....c'mon.....someone actually had to think of a child in this way in order to portray it as an indecent image. WTF????????  I don't care who you are or what you are, no one can sugar coat this as nothing short of disgusting.


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## Narayan (Jun 15, 2012)

do you by chance play any game, read any book or watch any movie that involves killing? and enjoying it?
then i shall call you murderous bastard.

edit: 
i know it's "sick" as what people like you think. and personally i think it's sick. 
but if you really think that we are that sick. then we should have already been [email protected] at least  5 children by now.
yet where i live, i am regarded with respect and trust that i wouldn't do such a thing. 

just like playing CoD or any game involving violence, some of us know where violence should happen.


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## Mazor (Jun 15, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> Mazor said:
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No, this would thankfully not be possible in any western country. A photograph of a real child is not a work you created and even if someone would claim it is that is irrelevant because the law is specifically about crafted work (read the link in the post you are quoting if you want the details, although the google translate is admittedly a bit unclear). Besides, it's not like you would only be charged with possession if you went and took pictures of naked children, whether you even still possessed the images would be pretty irrelevant and you would still be charged.



Lostbhoy said:


> I can only assume those who fight guys case are fans of the same or similar content. Personally, I am of mature enough mind to avoid any of that crap.....whether you feel its an amazing art form or not, the issue remains of the indecent portrayal of children.....real or not, you have to be a sick fuck to work with or enjoy looking at such material.....PERIOD!
> 
> So the guy was a translator for sick fucks? Oh, that makes it allright then!! Someone made the point earlier that there is a difference between the real thing and the fake thing, and someone should know the difference.....YES, they should and should also be of mature enough mind to say "No, I will not translate this filth for any amount of money."
> 
> I mean.....c'mon.....someone actually had to think of a child in this way in order to portray it as an indecent image. WTF????????  I don't care who you are or what you are, no one can sugar coat this as nothing short of disgusting.


The series I mentioned and every other series Lundström has translated are stories that target a children/teen audience and, unlike much of the adult oriented content created in Japan which is usually frowned upon here, are vastly popular here in the west. In other words the parents of the millions of children and teens you just called sick fucks don't see the filth you are blindly speculating that these works are made up of without spending a second taking an actual look because you already know you are right.

I'm sure these parents are all wrong and you, someone who has not given manga even a glance, are the one who is right. The sick fuck children who have not yet learned a second language are all much better off without this sick fuck translator translating the devils work for them to read. Also, thank you for keeping the morals of our society by calling anyone interested in works that you have no knowledge whatsoever of sick fucks. On a side note, your last paragraph implies you are under the impression that Lundström drew any of the images. He did not, read the other posts in this thread.

I still respect the opinion you originally expressed, that you think it's wrong to possess children depicted sexually even if they are non-existent. On some level I could even symphatize with your initial reaction to call Lundström a sick fuck. The absurdity of your claims in this post is however beyond words. Please get acquainted with the subject before you call anyone a sick fuck. This also goes for any discussion, regardless of the topic.


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## Issac (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm glad he was freed! I remember back when he was first accused, the lawyer people thought that the girls had too small breasts to be adult enough. there was no other age indication stated on those pictures, but that the breasts were too small..... yeah.


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## Minox (Jun 15, 2012)

This could very well happen again unless that flawed law is fixed to prevent these things. Drawn pictures of imaginary young characters in certain situations may be repulsive to a lot of people, but by applying this law to fiction they're basically saying that fictional characters are victimized and can be compared to actual victims. That is wrong on so many levels and is a deep insult to actual victims of this crime.

How about chasing actual criminals instead of wasting cash on applying absolutely stupidly phrased laws.




Lostbhoy said:


> So the guy was a translator for sick fucks? Oh, that makes it allright then!! Someone made the point earlier that there is a difference between the real thing and the fake thing, and someone should know the difference.....YES, they should and should also be of mature enough mind to say "No, I will not translate this filth for any amount of money."


You have no idea what kind of work he has done, do you? I find it hard to believe you would actually make that statement if that was the case.


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## Midna (Jun 16, 2012)

Issac said:


> I'm glad he was freed! I remember back when he was first accused, the lawyer people thought that the girls had too small breasts to be adult enough. there was no other age indication stated on those pictures, but that the breasts were too small..... yeah.


Pornography is banned in Australia if the women have small breasts
Doesn't matter if they're adults. Big titties only, or else it might *look* like CP


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## Tanas (Jun 16, 2012)

Midna said:


> Issac said:
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> > I'm glad he was freed! I remember back when he was first accused, the lawyer people thought that the girls had too small breasts to be adult enough. there was no other age indication stated on those pictures, but that the breasts were too small..... yeah.
> ...


Does the same apply to men with little dicks.


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## DrOctapu (Jun 16, 2012)

Lostbhoy said:


> FireGrey said:
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Slippery slope arguments are bullshit. Not that I'm particularly enthusiastic about lolicon and all that, I'd greatly prefer someone who whacks it to drawn children rather than someone who actually goes out and molests children. Can you quick making huge accusations and being a giant dick about this? It's not really that weird.


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## Zerosuit connor (Jun 16, 2012)

DrOctapu said:


> Lostbhoy said:
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Theres a huge difference between exploiting young children and drawing loli or shotacon. The fact is that beating off to cartoon is something that some people want to do, whats better?

Exploiting/Raping/Beating off to pictures of real children 
or
Reading a dirty comic?


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## DrOctapu (Jun 16, 2012)

Zerosuit connor said:


> DrOctapu said:
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That was actually my point, he's using a really shitty argument. I don't really have an issue with lolicons although I don't partake.


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## Zerosuit connor (Jun 16, 2012)

DrOctapu said:


> Zerosuit connor said:
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 Each one to his or her own.


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## Deleted-188346 (Jun 16, 2012)

Mazor said:


> This is not some random dude we're talking about, it's the sole Swedish translator of numerous manga works (One Piece, Detective Conan and Neon Genesis Evangelion to name a few) and has a collection of over 4000 comics.


So, his career and works somehow elevate him above a "random dude"?
His status should not have any bearing on whether judgement should or shouldn't be passed on him.

Whether he has a collection of other images or comics also shouldn't have a bearing on anything.



Zerosuit connor said:


> Exploiting/Raping/Beating off to pictures of real children
> or
> Reading a dirty comic?


It's one or the other is it? Based on what?
Infact, if people really were like that, and if they would sexually assault a child simply because they can't read a dirty comic, then they need serious help.

I hate this argument, where people create a false "well it's one or the other!" choice.


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## PyroSpark (Jun 16, 2012)

Lostbhoy said:


> Will you all still be supporting this guy if it leads to actual child porn? Pics of kids in any pornographic nature is fucked up in my opinion....drawing or not,
> he's still fantasising about a child......fucking weirdo imho.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future he's up on actual indecent child images.



This is exactly how I feel about loli and shota lovers.


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## Thesolcity (Jun 16, 2012)

I was just having the same conversation with some friends a couple days back. We (ultimately?) decided after debating the issue and taking into accounts other examples that it is victimless and a form of free expression. That's it, plain and simple. Those that said "Well hurr gateway to cp" were found to have no evidence to prove this and were immediately lumped into the "Hurr marijuana gateway", "hurr alcohol gateway", and "hurr violence in video games gateway" category. An individual's opinion (such as mine or yours) doesn't immediately subvert the free expression of another simply because you don't like it. Don't want to see it? Close the window like I do. Its not being shoved in your face, so continue with your rage-induced lifestyle comforted in the fact that you do *NOT *have to look at this. Carry on.




Spoiler



Spoiler'd because nobody cares. I have not seen an instance of loli worth advocating. Which means...I've found none of it appealing. Therefore, my stance is to just leave the loli lovers alone and accept that I will never "get" it. As long as no _real_ children are hurt, I see nothing worth fighting.


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## KingVamp (Jun 16, 2012)

His whole argument is, if you this then you will do that. Which isn't fair at all.

It really like saying, if I play violent videos games, I'm absolutely going to do violence.

Also a point about that loli thing (which isn't even CP), you saying they support this thing, so they support this too, or even you support it so there for you do it yourself is a bad unfair,argument.

He trying marge two separate things together with what if's?.


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## Midna (Jun 16, 2012)

Oh wow, everyone in this thread arguing against this guy is just saying it's "sick" and using the slippery slope fallacy
Answer me this. Who does one hurt by beating off to drawings?
Victimless crimes don't exist. If it's not hurting anyone than there's no problem.


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## Issac (Jun 16, 2012)

and also, who say he's even beating off to it? The point is that he has a huge collection of manga on his hard drive due to his work as a manga translator. a very small collection of those happened to have girls with too small breasts. There is no info if it was nudity, panties, "oops i fell on you", sexy poses? Only that it is too small breasts and something that can lead to sexy thoughts.

Yet again, like some say: If you like movies, and have a huge collection of movies... what if you have one movie with a [censored] scene? (big hit "girl with the dragon tattoo" comes to mind)... Does that make you a perverted sick fuck who needs to be locked up, because you ARE going to [censored] someone? Or, like some of you say... are you a sick fuck for masturbating to that [censored] scene?? how can you do that?! You DO have a movie with a [censored] scene, of course you are beating off to it!


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## Rydian (Jun 16, 2012)

Zerosuit connor said:


> The fact is that beating off to cartoon is something that some people want to do


So that's what was happening here?

'Cause I haven't read the course documents, but I've seen no mention of that, and I assume that if something like that was going on (the pictures were obviously for masturbation purposes) then it'd be important enough to be mentioned in the case.

Or that more than a single image would have been determined to be bad.


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## pasc (Jun 17, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> How is it even child porn?
> It's just possible to look up a little girls skirt, you can do that in real life you know.



Dunno man, but your signature and this post... WeIrD


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 17, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> How is it even child porn?
> It's just possible to look up a little girls skirt, you can do that in real life you know.



And you'll probably get punched in the fucking face if you do and, if you're lucky, get a nice ass beating. You're also making the worst possible argument. It's possible to murder someone in real life but it doesn't mean I fucking should.

It's hard to pass judgment on this guy without actually seeing the images (but from the looks of I don't think I want to) but generally I find this "child pornography" cases sickening. If they're depicting people of a younger age, whether realistic looking or fantasy looking, doing sexual acts, then it's child pornography. Doesn't matter if it's real or fake, anything that promotes a sexual fantasy with children is utterly disgusting and should be burned at the stake.


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## Rydian (Jun 17, 2012)

@[member='Guild McCommunist']



Rydian said:


> If you've watched an episode of Shin Chan (such as when it aired on cartoon network) where he does the "Mr. Elephant Dance", *then you've viewed anime drawings of an underage boy's genitals.*


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## Luigi2012SM64DS (Jun 17, 2012)

im guessing everyone who psted here is a perv


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## yuyuyup (Jun 17, 2012)

It's fun how people think they can solve the problems of the universe by calling for the censorship of drawings and the prosecutions of thought crimes.


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## wrettcaughn (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm still waiting for the "If we do everything we can to prevent the sexual assault of children...then who will grow up to be strippers???" argument.  There is no slippery slope here.  Child porn is black and white, regardless of whether it's photographs or "fantasy cartoons"...


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 17, 2012)

Rydian said:


> @[member='Guild McCommunist']
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I haven't seen that show.


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## ComeTurismO (Jun 17, 2012)

what does DoA mean? Although, this is pretty weird in my opinion.


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## Warrior522 (Jun 17, 2012)

xAC3L3G3NDx said:


> what does DoA mean? Although, this is pretty weird in my opinion.



Dead or Alive, a fighting game that makes money solely because "lol hawt gurlz"


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## Jamstruth (Jun 17, 2012)

xAC3L3G3NDx said:


> what does DoA mean? Although, this is pretty weird in my opinion.


"DoA" stands for "Dead or Alive" a series of video games involving several bikini clad girls. A 3DS game was released in Japan but not here, apparently because of fears over child pornography brought on by this case. With some of the girls in DoA they look really young, that and America hates on anything to do with sex in the under 18 market (seriously here in Europe its 16 because by that age you're fully sexually mature. Admittedly its still 18 to work in porn though, I think, also you need to be 18 to buy it)

As for this court case: Its nice to see that the guy wasn't jailed for anything even though Loli Hentai etc. is more than a little bit questionable in my opinion. None of the characters are real children so child porn laws don't really apply.


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## DSGamer64 (Jun 18, 2012)

Midna said:


> Issac said:
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> 
> > I'm glad he was freed! I remember back when he was first accused, the lawyer people thought that the girls had too small breasts to be adult enough. there was no other age indication stated on those pictures, but that the breasts were too small..... yeah.
> ...



Sounds fine to me, small tits are funny looking anyway.


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## servant (Jun 19, 2012)

Has anyone here ever seen an anime called Beelzebub?  Pretty sure it has a pretty low rating in Japan and if it ever was localized it would likely never get a higher rating than PG-13.  Funny series, too bad the studio went broke.

@ anyone who chances upon the series
[sarcasm] Anyone who watches this is a sick f#ck and should burn at a stake for this is the devils work.  You should be beaten to death for looking at this, as it is child pornography and you are obviously commiting a perverse act as you gaze upon it. [sarcasm/]

I don't know how provocative the said images are but can they be worse than 26 straight episodes of a kid w/ his genitals hanging out?
If this were a case of CP then it would be an open-shut-you're-guilty kind of thing but I'm not entirely convinced the guy needs to go to jail because he makes money translating smut.


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