# Pandemic Amnesty? No, people will not forgive and forget what was done to them.



## Marc_LFD (Nov 3, 2022)

​

Now that it's "over," the media is asking for forgiveness and to forget how the unvaxxed were so disrespected, harassed, mocked, coerced, and threatened if they didn't take the shot.

No, they (and those who have those same views) don't get to attack people (even if it's just emotionally) and we all just forgive and forget, nope, that ain't happening. People need to be held accountable for their actions so that they don't have an inflated ego and try to belittle others for having different views and concerns about their own health in regards to taking an injection.

I know a lot of you here are in favor of the Covid Vaccine and that's fine, but don't try to push it on to others. Let each and everyone make their own decision respectfully.


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## mrdude (Nov 3, 2022)

Let's never forget what these mask nazis were acting like.

https://www.facebook.com/DailyMail/...cing-students-to-wear-masks/1898435050330993/


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 3, 2022)

you have my support here, ill take reparation's, arrests for the mandates, and a public apology. I would also take new found interest from the ladies since im miocarditis free


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## emigre (Nov 3, 2022)

Saw Dan Wootton and laughed. The guy's a twat.


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## RAHelllord (Nov 3, 2022)

I like how you couldn't even be bothered to read the actual article that was referenced, because you'll probably find you're going to agree with the points it makes:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/10/covid-response-forgiveness/671879/

It doesn't even mention anti-vaxxers at all but people have to sell outrage at all costs.


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## yuyuyup (Nov 3, 2022)

What are you gonna do about it


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## Xzi (Nov 3, 2022)

yuyuyup said:


> What are you gonna do about it


This.  I'm gonna keep on mocking every grown "man" who's afraid of a little poke in the shoulder for the sake of preventative care.  Following the trend, I'm surprised y'all can even handle brushing your teeth regularly, though I'm sure plenty of you don't do that either.

Being flat-out stupid does not make you a rebel.


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## The Catboy (Nov 4, 2022)

Nah, anti-vaxxors were and are wrong, they don't deserve forgiveness for spreading misinformation and costing the lives of countless people.


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## Minox (Nov 4, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Nah, anti-vaxxors were and are wrong, they don't deserve forgiveness for spreading misinformation and costing the lives of countless people.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not the people who didn't take the vaccine who are asking for amnesty is it?


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## Viri (Nov 4, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This.  I'm gonna keep on mocking every grown "man" who's afraid of a little poke in the shoulder for the sake of preventative care.  Following the trend, I'm surprised y'all can even handle brushing your teeth regularly, though I'm sure plenty of you don't do that either.
> 
> Being flat-out stupid does not make you a rebel.


I'm not scared of a needle, but seeing the side effects my parent and siblings went through after getting the poke scared me into not getting it. I'm not an anti-vaxer for all vaxes, but I won't get a covid vax. And even after the side effects they went through, we all ended up getting Covid at the same time anyway, and it was mild. Just stuff tasting weird for 2 weeks, and a fever.


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## The Catboy (Nov 4, 2022)

Minox said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not the people who didn't take the vaccine who are asking for amnesty is it?


I legit don’t know who’s asking, I am not going to lie. But regardless, anti-vax crowd doesn’t deserve to be forgiven for their actions. Unless they finally realized that they were wrong, then they should be forgiven


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## GBAer (Nov 4, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I legit don’t know who’s asking, I am not going to lie. But regardless, anti-vax crowd doesn’t deserve to be forgiven for their actions. Unless they finally realized that they were wrong, then they should be forgiven


Forgiveness for what exactly? Explain how one person not being vaccinated threatens the life of another?


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## The Catboy (Nov 4, 2022)

GBAer said:


> Forgiveness for what exactly? Explain how one person not being vaccinated threatens the life of another?


One person not being vaccinated increases the risk of spreading the virus to those around them. The issue isn't just one person though, it's an entire movement of misinformation that had contributed to covid spreading faster and with greater effectiveness. Going deeper into the fact that anti-vaxxors have caused the spread and increase the rise of preventable diseases like mumps, measles, and so on. It's not just one person or one person, it's a movement that cost the health and lives of countless people.


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## Taleweaver (Nov 4, 2022)

Excuse me... The media is asking forgiveness for the UNVACCINATED people? Fucking serious? Those crybabies who claim their "personal freedom" is more important than the wellbeing of our species? They fucking power the rest of the world an apology for their irresponsible mad behavior. 

Have i told you that a year ago we were forced to ban unvaccinated people from our restaurants but could do nothing about the fact that my colleague(who might still not have gotten his first shot for all we know) could still go in and do his job because it involved going to these stores? The guy had the nerve to be disgruntled that the rest of us got half a day off to get to the vaccination center. 
Out how about the fact that republican states who downplayed the importance had higher covid death counts than less moronic states? 

Also... Just how 'over' is it really, though? My mother had her fourth shot a couple months back. She had gotten covid(again) about a week ago and is still having symptoms today (well... Yesterday afternoon).


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## Jayinem (Nov 4, 2022)

Ah, feels so good to be a pure blood and not have to worry about blood clots, myocarditis or heart attacks. No apologies necessary I feel great.



Taleweaver said:


> Also... Just how 'over' is it really, though? My mother had her fourth shot a couple months back. She had gotten covid(again) about a week ago and is still having symptoms today (well... Yesterday afternoon).



At some point maybe you should go "hrmm, maybe this vaccine doesn't do anything" but nah just keep doing what your Government tells you to do keep getting more and more clot shots (because more are coming) and think they have your best interest at heart. You should get on your knees and pray to your Government for protection and it'll really help you in the future.

You can't make a vaccine in the time period covid hit and the time it came out, in fact it was reviewed already December 2019 before covid was even a big deal anywhere but China. There's supposed to be 3-5 years of clinical trials for any vaccine. Covid and the vaccine are a scam I hope one day the world wakes up to that.


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## Korozin (Nov 4, 2022)

Jayinem said:


> At some point maybe you should go "hrmm, maybe this vaccine doesn't do anything"



If I recall weren't most of the Covid vaccines mRNA sequenced injections, tasked with the purpose of decreasing hospitalization - not necessarily keeping you from getting sick?

I'm not trying to state a fact, as I will fully accept the fact that I might be wrong. Not as well versed in this topic anymore so my memory is fuzzy lol.


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## NZ_reg (Nov 4, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> One person not being vaccinated increases the risk of spreading the virus to those around them.


If those around them are vaccinated, what are they afraid of?


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## titan_tim (Nov 4, 2022)

The people who were whining about their personal freedoms are trying to be the victims here?! LOL! GTFO!

Those same people who didn't want to mask up, or take the vaccine actively helped spread the virus more than the people who did got the jab and wore masks. This whole slog has been over three years, but could have been contained earlier if it weren't for the weakest links of our society.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 4, 2022



Korozin said:


> If I recall weren't most of the Covid vaccines mRNA sequenced injections, tasked with the purpose of decreasing hospitalization - not necessarily keeping you from getting sick?


All vaccines are there for training your body on how to deal with an external virus. You introduce a dying version of that virus, and your body easily kills it and learns from that experience. The next time the virus infects your system, the immune system response is faster at identifying it, and removing it. 

In the case of covid, it has statistically caused hospitalizations for vaccinated people to drop immensely, because their immune system can easily take care of the virus. The vast majority of people there are unvaccinated, especially for those on ventilators. 

People out there seem to think that vaccines are a shield that will prevent infections. That's never been the case in the history of vaccines.


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## tabzer (Nov 4, 2022)

There was never any chance to "contain" this, and it hasn't been contained.  It never will be "contained".  The vaccines was a capitalistic venture that "politicians" (aka inside traders of law and stock) and pharmaceutical companies (aka politicians) were on like white on rice.  It was never, ever, humanitarian.  Overpromise, underdeliver, then shift the blame.


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## Taleweaver (Nov 4, 2022)

Jayinem said:


> Ah, feels so good to be a pure blood and not have to worry about blood clots, myocarditis or heart attacks. No apologies necessary I feel great.


This implies you believe it's an issue. They're all edge cases. But ey... At least you're not peddling the more insane theories. 


Jayinem said:


> At some point maybe you should go "hrmm, maybe this vaccine doesn't do anything" but nah just keep doing what your Government tells you to do keep getting more and more clot shots (because more are coming) and think they have your best interest at heart. You should get on your knees and pray to your Government for protection and it'll really help you in the future.


It's no different from a flu shot: it protects against the worse effects. Not against the disease itself. 
As to the effect: I'm not looking at individual cases but hospital occupations. And in that case, it's pretty much standard fare again rather than the near overwhelming of the last years. 

Also: i believe in virologists and medical staff. Our government was slow and inadequate. Still better than some countries, but i take offense at your assumption that i do more than condone my government. Please don't make these assumptions, as i never said or implied I'm a sucker for them. 



Jayinem said:


> You can't make a vaccine in the time period covid hit and the time it came out, in fact it was reviewed already December 2019 before covid was even a big deal anywhere but China. There's supposed to be 3-5 years of clinical trials for any vaccine. Covid and the vaccine are a scam I hope one day the world wakes up to that.


We could, we did. Worldwide cooperation and the fact it's a branch of an already familiar branch of virii (corona is the brand, covid 19 just the most potent member of the family). This isn't a secret either, so why mention this piece of information?


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## titan_tim (Nov 4, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> We could, we did. Worldwide cooperation and the fact it's a branch of an already familiar branch of virii (corona is the brand, covid 19 just the most potent member of the family). This isn't a secret either, so why mention this piece of information?


In order to expedite the testing, they were able to do many tests in parallel instead of sequentially, which saved a LOT of time.


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## NeSchn (Nov 4, 2022)

I got vaccinated immediately and never batted an eye at anyone who didn't want it. I thought it was pretty shitty to put people down who didn't want it, unless they're going all mass conspiracy and shit, then absolutely. But probably about 95% of the people I had conversations with were mainly along the lines of "it's so new and I don't know what it might do to me" and I think that's fine. I'm absolutely down with being a lab rat though. Both of my parents got it right after my first shot in December of 2020 and I was there caring for them unmasked the entire time as an experiment to myself and didn't get it, so I mean that was proof enough for me that it worked. (They recovered just fine as well.)

Do I think we should forgive the unvaxxed? Sure. Emotions were extremely high at the beginning and I'll even admit that I lost a few friends and got into many arguments about staying socially distant to stop the spread, but over time I look back and realize how high emotions were and I get it. I've recently made amends with two of the people who I got into arguments with over it back in early 2020.

Should we forgive the conspiracy ridden antivaxxers? Hell nahh. They're fucking awful. They don't deserve any apology.


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## Osakasan (Nov 4, 2022)

I'm not forgiving people who were willingly a potential danger for people around them.

My parents are old and inmunodepressed, had they catch it before thei got vaccinated they would be toast already. These... Absolute idiots, scum of the earth, egoists... Have made it harder for everyone.

And to add insult to injury, they also harassed the people around them, they acted like pro-life (more like anti-choice, but let's use the official buzzword here) yellers, but adding sheer violence to the mix.

I still wear my mask, it's a great help in the flu season, and yesterday morning i had to fend off a couple of these walking jokes.

Fuck antivaxxers, fuck antimaskers, and honestly OP, if you have any sympathy for them, fuck you too.


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## Acid_Snake (Nov 4, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> One person not being vaccinated increases the risk of spreading the virus to those around them.


Every scientific paper disagrees with you. Vaccines does NOT reduce any viral load in your body, you're just as infectious with or without one. Natural inmunity is the only known way to drop down your viral load.

Please refrain yourself from saying anything that isn't backed up by any scientific study, this is why anti-vaxxers are constantly on your toes, cause you spread as much misinformation and unchecked "facts" as they do.


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## Osakasan (Nov 4, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Every scientific paper disagrees with you. Vaccines does NOT reduce any viral load in your body, you're just as infectious with or without one. Natural inmunity is the only known way to drop down your viral load.
> 
> Please refrain yourself from saying anything that isn't backed up by any scientific study, this is why anti-vaxxers are constantly on your toes, cause you spread as much misinformation and unchecked "facts" as they do.


Oh man

You're right

You even had receipts



Spoiler



An idiot that speaks about the deaths of Cuba WITHOUT taking in account USA's role in the matter doesn't have the right to speak as if they're spitting facts, moreso when they're not even providing receipts.


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## ZeroT21 (Nov 4, 2022)

Science can save lives, but stupidity is probably genetic, so there's no cure sadly


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## Youkai (Nov 4, 2022)

Osakasan said:


> I'm not forgiving people who were willingly a potential danger for people around them.
> 
> My parents are old and inmunodepressed, had they catch it before thei got vaccinated they would be toast already. These... Absolute idiots, scum of the earth, egoists... Have made it harder for everyone.
> 
> ...



Sorry but this is such a bullshit comment 

since when is anyone obligated to protect others of getting sick ? most people even go to work while beeing ill and it was allways "normal" and now people like you think they are morally better then anyone else because they get new kind of vaccinations that were hardly tested at al and did have side effects that even resulted into death for (luckily) a very small number of people.

Of course it sucks if you or your family and friends have some illness causing bad immune system or whatever but even before corona people like that were always in danger and had to wear masks or worst case stay in clean rooms so yeah that doesn't change with or withouth Corona.

and even if a vaccination redces the ammount of visues slightly you might have noticed that now as most people are vaccinated almost everyone in the hospitals that has Corona is vacinated and probably got it from vacinated people ?

I have almost all vaccinations that are recommended for me but I didn't get the Corona Vaccination and compared to many friends who are vacinated I might have been lucky but unlike them for me the infection took about 3 days and I was fine afterwards while all of them had 2-4 weeks problems including long covid ! and ~1-2 weeks of trouble after each time they got their vaccination shot


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 4, 2022)

Hmm, yeah. So long as people who chose not to get the vaccine keep calling themselves 'purebloods' I think I'll reserve judgement.


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## Osakasan (Nov 4, 2022)

You're calling my comment bullshit while vomiting shit like this



Youkai said:


> since when is anyone obligated to protect others of getting sick ? most people even go to work while beeing ill and it was allways "normal" and now people like you think they are morally better then anyone else because they get new kind of vaccinations that were hardly tested at al and did have side effects that even resulted into death for (luckily) a very small number of people.


It's called social responsability, and it happens when there's a deadly illness roaming around. That's why quarantine exists, it's a protocol that has been applied since doctors used to wear bird masks.

If people doesn't make sure to protect the others, the illness spread further and more people die, that's what happened with the black death and the flu before a vaccine was found.



Youkai said:


> Of course it sucks if you or your family and friends have some illness causing bad immune system or whatever but even before corona people like that were always in danger and had to wear masks or worst case stay in clean rooms so yeah that doesn't change with or withouth Corona.


Before Corona there were barely any mortal illnesses around because we made sure to get rid of them, and have certain protocols so ingrained in our society (like blocking our mouth when we cough or sneeze) that we limit the spread of the ones that are still around to the minimum



Youkai said:


> and even if a vaccination redces the ammount of visues slightly you might have noticed that now as most people are vaccinated almost everyone in the hospitals that has Corona is vacinated and probably got it from vacinated people ?


Jesus fuck

First, a vaccinated person can and will be infected by the virus, but the risk of spreading it will be greatly reduced precisely because the vaccine will accelerate the healing proccess, that's what has happened with the Flu, and what's being worked torwards with Covid.

Second, a vaccinated person wont spread the virus if they didn't catch it themselves. Vaccine puts an inactive virus in your body to train the antibodies agaisnt the real deal.

Third, a vaccinated person can catch a variant of the virus and fall ill because of it. That's why there has been so many reinforcements, because Covid has been mutating at a very fast rate. That's also why you have to take the flu shot yearly, because the flu virus mutates.



Youkai said:


> I have almost all vaccinations that are recommended for me but I didn't get the Corona Vaccination and compared to many friends who are vacinated I might have been lucky but unlike them for me the infection took about 3 days and I was fine afterwards while all of them had 2-4 weeks problems including long covid ! and ~1-2 weeks of trouble after each time they got their vaccination shot


Every body is different, vaccine works differently on each person, some will be able to go through their life without issues, some will feel the aftereffects for a few days, some for a week or two. Welcome to the human body, dude.



Maximumbeans said:


> Hmm, yeah. So long as people who chose not to get the vaccine keep calling themselves 'purebloods' I think I'll reserve judgement.


Using nazi-style wording really don't help their case. But given that the antivaxx movement was created by borderline closet neonazis, i'm not surprised at all.


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 4, 2022)

Osakasan said:


> Using nazi-style wording really don't help their case. But given that the antivaxx movement was created by borderline closet neonazis, i'm not surprised at all.


Yeah, fair point. What a time we live in.


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## KingVamp (Nov 4, 2022)

Jayinem said:


> At some point maybe you should go "hrmm, maybe this vaccine doesn't do anything" but nah just keep doing what your Government tells you to do keep getting more and more clot shots (because more are coming) and think they have your best interest at heart. You should get on your knees and pray to your Government for protection and it'll really help you in the future.
> 
> You can't make a vaccine in the time period covid hit and the time it came out, in fact it was reviewed already December 2019 before covid was even a big deal anywhere but China. There's supposed to be 3-5 years of clinical trials for any vaccine. Covid and the vaccine are a scam I hope one day the world wakes up to that.


Meanwhile so many took dewormers instead.


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## Korozin (Nov 4, 2022)

Once again let me disclaim, I am NOT claiming that I'm correct, as I genuinely haven't touched up on this topic in a _while_. This is genuine confusion and the asking of a question.

Pardon my confusion on the vaccine. But wasn't the technical process of the (majority) of Covid vaccines to introduce an mRNA sequence that would allow your cells to create a Spike Protein similar to that of Covid's to allow the body further information to fight the disease if / when you get it? (this process would prevent severe symptoms or hospitalization, not the prevention of infection)

I see a lot of people saying that they're just introducing a dead (or nearly dead) sample of Covid into your body (which is how most vaccines work, but I digress) if I recall the Covid vaccine was done differently, so that the actual virus never enters your body upon vaccination.

This method of vaccination was used for several other projects such as an experimental Flu Vaccine and the very similar family of viruses under SARS.

Not saying it's the right way to go, but this is a genuine question. Why do we refer to the Covid vaccine as another vaccine which introduces real samples of the virus into your immune system, when what it actually does is instruct your cells to create a similar spike protein that Covid contains. This allows (or supposedly allows) your body to recognize and fight the virus without having it introduced into your body beforehand.


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 4, 2022)

Jayinem said:


> Covid and the vaccine are a scam I hope one day the world wakes up to that.


You're right, it was all part of a grand conspiracy and I've had it figured out from day one:

Step 1: Pay millions of actors to pretend to die. Start in China, because they love to help the West carry out shadowy operations against the globe, and they don't mind taking the blame and racist abuse for an embarrassing cover story.
Step 2: Make everyone stay indoors so that the economy gets nice and damaged.
Step 3: Introduce a vaccine that the average citizen is not forced to receive and leaves the vast majority of people with no adverse side effects.
Step 4: Let people go back outside and resume their lives.

And now we sit back and wait.


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## Youkai (Nov 5, 2022)

Korozin said:


> Once again let me disclaim, I am NOT claiming that I'm correct, as I genuinely haven't touched up on this topic in a _while_. This is genuine confusion and the asking of a question.
> 
> Pardon my confusion on the vaccine. But wasn't the technical process of the (majority) of Covid vaccines to introduce an mRNA sequence that would allow your cells to create a Spike Protein similar to that of Covid's to allow the body further information to fight the disease if / when you get it? (this process would prevent severe symptoms or hospitalization, not the prevention of infection)
> 
> ...



well there are different vaccinations but for the major ones you are right


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## ZeroFX (Nov 5, 2022)

follow the science! but not biology!
ps: i got vaxxed but you do what you want.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This.  I'm gonna keep on mocking every grown "man" who's afraid of a little poke in the shoulder for the sake of preventative care.  Following the trend, I'm surprised y'all can even handle brushing your teeth regularly, though I'm sure plenty of you don't do that either.
> 
> Being flat-out stupid does not make you a rebel.



do you have a source on the preventative element of it? as far as i know people are still getting covid.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



Youkai said:


> well there are different vaccinations but for the major ones you are right



well thats the difference, some are actually vaccinations, and some abuse emergency powers

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



Maximumbeans said:


> Hmm, yeah. So long as people who chose not to get the vaccine keep calling themselves 'purebloods' I think I'll reserve judgement.



someone sounds a bit, salty.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



KingVamp said:


> Meanwhile so many took dewormers instead.



ahh an anti science racist, the cdc confirms ivermectin is a preventative, try to avoid using conspiracies in the future, thanks.


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## Korozin (Nov 5, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> do you have a source on the preventative element of it? as far as i know people are still getting covid.



That's because technically it isn't preventative of infection. Like most vaccines the purpose is to reduce hospitalization, or severe symptoms. Not to knock out infection rates.

However that being said, if someone is able to recover faster, that itself can technically be a preventative element as you have less time to spread it around. But that's stretching it at best.

Also, you know, it's a virus. Look at the Flu for an example, the Flu vaccine isn't infallible either since there's multiple strains. The vaccine may help, but it's not like you're suddenly immune to the flu - it just helps a bit if you happen to get infected.


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 5, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> ​I know a lot of you here are in favor of the Covid Vaccine and that's fine, but don't try to push it on to others. Let each and everyone make their own decision respectfully.​


I haven't even watched the video, so I have no opinion on that, but I completely agree with this statement.

I chose to trust the vaccine. I'm fine with that.  But I'm not fine with the posing, virtue signaling, harassing and persecution of others. One thing is to try to convince somebody, a different thing is trying to force somebody. And one thing that just the putrid society we live in could do is to actively cast people away and diminish them in a time of need. Humanity.


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## bazamuffin (Nov 5, 2022)

I chose not to trust it and I'm fine with my choice, I'm also fine with people choosing to take the vax.  I'm not ramming my opinions why I chose not to down peoples throats.  Just want people to respect my choice as I respect theirs.  Everyone has their right to choose


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 5, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> someone sounds a bit, salty.


Bless your heart, I bet you tried so hard to come up with something more scathing than that but it was just too difficult. I respect your best effort. You did good, champ.


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## Korozin (Nov 5, 2022)

At this point is it even possible to have a thread like this without it devolving into a shit-show?

Kinda seems like some people just want to cause arguments.


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## mightymuffy (Nov 5, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> I haven't even watched the video, so I have no opinion on that, but I completely agree with this statement.
> 
> I chose to trust the vaccine. I'm fine with that.  But I'm not fine with the posing, virtue signaling, harassing and persecution of others. One thing is to try to convince somebody, a different thing is trying to force somebody. And one thing that just the putrid society we live in could do is to actively cast people away and diminish them in a time of need. Humanity.


This!


bazamuffin said:


> I chose not to trust it and I'm fine with my choice, I'm also fine with people choosing to take the vax.  I'm not ramming my opinions why I chose not to down peoples throats.  Just want people to respect my choice as I respect theirs.  Everyone has their right to choose


...and this! We all have, as far as we know, one shot on this planet... we should all do what WE think is best for us and ours while we're at it! I took the double vax due to work, more specifically the wife's work, but my God if someone didn't want the vax then that's their decision and I'm completely fine with that! All this 'oooh I hate anti-vaxxers' 'ooh I hate pro-vaxxers' - get a fukkin grip..


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

Korozin said:


> That's because technically it isn't preventative of infection. Like most vaccines the purpose is to reduce hospitalization, or severe symptoms. Not to knock out infection rates.
> 
> However that being said, if someone is able to recover faster, that itself can technically be a preventative element as you have less time to spread it around. But that's stretching it at best.
> 
> Also, you know, it's a virus. Look at the Flu for an example, the Flu vaccine isn't infallible either since there's multiple strains. The vaccine may help, but it's not like you're suddenly immune to the flu - it just helps a bit if you happen to get infected.



as a fun fact,  your first sentence is objectively, factually incorrect, i know this because i researched because some kid on here tried to think they were smarter than me. Yes, the goal is to prevent infection and yes, it does do that. Here's an easy one, tetanus, if you get the vaccine, you will NOT get tetanus, its almost impossible, in fact i did a little digging... ALLEGELDLY there may have been 1 or 2 cases where this happened, but it wasn't even conclusive.   Fun fact, same holds true for MMR( Mumps measles rubella)  We did have a few cases of measles a few years back, but weirdly enough, they were from illegal immigrants ( no i dea how thats possible).

The problem with covid, as with the flu ( ill probably get pulled for saying that) is that it mutates, fine so be it, i understand that , but then, it isnt a vaccine, there was a time pre-censorship where the definition of a vaccine was too...immunize, now, its whatever you wanna label something to get around emergency use rules.  If you wanna get an injection, thats on you, and your right, but you demonizing or vilifying someone for not getting something that probably wont help for something that will only really harm a VERY small portion of the population, is wrong, iirc there was a guy around the 1930's who demonized people for not subscribing to his belief system, it was pretty bad too, i hear.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



Maximumbeans said:


> Bless your heart, I bet you tried so hard to come up with something more scathing than that but it was just too difficult. I respect your best effort. You did good, champ.



thanks, i appreciate it.


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## TraderPatTX (Nov 5, 2022)

The left showed their fascistic tendencies during Covid. No, we will never forget. Yes, people will be held accountable for the lies, the lives lost in nursing homes, children's development negatively affected. I will never forget how I was treated when I didn't wear a mask because I wasn't sick.

The left believed every single lie from the government and the media and many still do. The audacity for them to call us anti-vaxxers when we all went to public school, which means, we've received other vaccinations.

The Branch Covidians are a cult. And cults need to be held accountable for brainwashing and gaslighting the world for 3 years now. People lost their jobs. People died alone because family wasn't allowed to be there in their final moments. Deaf people could not communicate. People lost body autonomy. We were harassed, beaten, scolded and the left attempted to excommunicate people out of society. People were banned from social media and even banks shut down people's accounts because of wrongthink. Fascism is the marriage of government and corporations against the people and the left sure did enjoy their little run over the past few years.

That run of fascism will be over in January 2023 when the new Congress and state houses are seated.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

omgcat said:


> -snip-



do you have a source on this? all the data im seeing says that vaccinated people are dying in way higher numbers.


----------



## Osakasan (Nov 5, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> do you have a source on the preventative element of it? as far as i know people are still getting covid.


I've been wondering for the last two years if there's a hidden virus that makes people ignorant or something because holy shit.

Vaccines are, indeed, preventive care. They fortify your inmune system agaisnt the virus, meaning, you may catch it, but instead of being deadly, you will have very reduced symptoms.



TraderPatTX said:


> The left showed their fascistic tendencies during Covid. No, we will never forget. Yes, people will be held accountable for the lies, the lives lost in nursing homes, children's development negatively affected. I will never forget how I was treated when I didn't wear a mask because I wasn't sick.
> 
> The left believed every single lie from the government and the media and many still do. The audacity for them to call us anti-vaxxers when we all went to public school, which means, we've received other vaccinations.
> 
> ...


You guys are experts at projection, huh?

There's a limit to how much idiocy you can put in a single post, you know?

EDIT: Of course it had to be a Florida man. Of fucking course.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The left showed their fascistic tendencies during Covid. No, we will never forget. Yes, people will be held accountable for the lies, the lives lost in nursing homes, children's development negatively affected. I will never forget how I was treated when I didn't wear a mask because I wasn't sick.
> 
> The left believed every single lie from the government and the media and many still do. The audacity for them to call us anti-vaxxers when we all went to public school, which means, we've received other vaccinations.
> 
> ...



hey trader pat do you remember this saying? it was something like, my body my.... compliance? something like that.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



Osakasan said:


> I've been wondering for the last two years if there's a hidden virus that makes people ignorant or something because holy shit.
> 
> Vaccines are, indeed, preventive care. They fortify your inmune system agaisnt the virus, meaning, you may catch it, but instead of being deadly, you will have very reduced symptoms.



so you basically said something right, lied, and then said something right again.


Vaccines are *preventative* care, accurate, which btw the definition ( since you need to do this as a conservative) is  "to keep from happening or existing" which the vaccine does not, in any capacity, do. you were also right in that it does prep your *IMMUNE SYSTEM * against a virus so you are in fact immune. Now where you lied, because MFP tells you to, is where you said, you will have reduced symptoms no no, thats not how it works, You dont get reduced MMR, you dont get reduced tetanus, you dont reduced polio, you DO get reduced covid though, because it is a treatment to mitigate something, rather than prevent it, much like an anti inflammatory.


edit: because holy shit

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



Osakasan said:


> I've been wondering for the last two years if there's a hidden virus that makes people ignorant or something because holy shit.
> 
> Vaccines are, indeed, preventive care. They fortify your inmune system agaisnt the virus, meaning, you may catch it, but instead of being deadly, you will have very reduced symptoms.
> 
> ...



can you elaborate on the florida comment? from what i understand they are doing quite well, leading in education right now iirc


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 5, 2022)

omgcat said:


> meh, at this point i'm just enjoying all the unvaxxed and unprepared dying. i'm burnt out feeling bad for them, they can get fucked.


This statement is the perfect example of the left's true beliefs towards those who dare to actually do their own research and resist the biggest psyop this world has ever known. 

You're just mad that we didn't give in as easily as you did. We are not the ones getting myocarditis diagnoses or having increased miscarriages.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> This statement is the perfect example of the left's true beliefs towards those who dare to actually do their own research and resist the biggest psyop this world has ever known.
> 
> You're just mad that we didn't give in as easily as you did. We are not the ones getting myocarditis diagnoses or having increased miscarriages.



it also doesnt even make sense in the simplest sense, omircon and its subs arent nearly as deadly, sounds like that person has a bad case of the anti sciences


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## TraderPatTX (Nov 5, 2022)

Osakasan said:


> -snip-


Imagine thinking that fascism is when the government leaves you alone.


Osakasan said:


> -snip-


Reading peer reviewed studies is research. How many did you read over the past couple of years? My guess would be zero.

I've been asking since this whole thing started to show me a peer reviewed study showing that masks stop the spread of Covid. After asking hundreds of times on multiple platforms, nobody has been able to prove that they work. Instead, people share links to corporate media parroting government talking points. I hate to burst your bubble, but Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon are not scientists, young lady.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> -snip-



-snip-



	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



TraderPatTX said:


> Imagine thinking that fascism is when the government leaves you alone.
> 
> Reading peer reviewed studies is research. How many did you read over the past couple of years? My guess would be zero.
> 
> I've been asking since this whole thing started to show me a peer reviewed study showing that masks stop the spread of Covid. After asking hundreds of times on multiple platforms, nobody has been able to prove that they work. Instead, people share links to corporate media parroting government talking points. I hate to burst your bubble, but Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon are not scientists, young lady.


yea im gonna need receipts on them claiming unvaccinated are leading in deaths.


----------



## mightymuffy (Nov 5, 2022)

DillyDilly said:


> If they let us control what we wanna see in the latest post area that would be a big help


...maybe...try to...ignore it then?? Get your Switch related content by ignoring the rest, clicking on the Switch section, then get on with your life - is that so difficult? I see US politics posts in the same area all the time, which I obviously don't give a flying piss about, but you don't see me running into one screaming 'ARGHH ME FUCKIN EYES, GET IT OFF!!' - if it doesn't appeal to you, don't click on it!


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## RAHelllord (Nov 5, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> -snip-


It should be a red flag that the news page the ranking is from doesn't mention what the metrics are for the ranking but how would you people realize that?

Meanwhile every other actual study that discloses their metrics places Florida at place 14 or lower.

https://scholaroo.com/report/state-education-rankings/


lolcatzuru said:


> yea im gonna need receipts on them claiming unvaccinated are leading in deaths.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

Normalized for per-capita the vaccinated are dying less than the unvaccinated, the fact that absolute numbers has more vaccinated dying than unvaccinated is due to the 78% vaccination rate of adults.

And for the uneducated in the thread, per-capita means it's given as a X amount out of a thousand people. Comparing a group of 1000 vaccinated individuals to a group of 1000 unvaccinated individuals the unvaccinatedg group will end up with more dead people than the vaccinated group.


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## AlexMCS (Nov 5, 2022)

@DillyDilly I'm kinda bored right now, so I can cook up a simple GreaseMonkey/TamperMonkey script to block posts from this section (World News, Current Events & Politics) in the Recent Content for you. Interested?

On topic, let those who want to take the vaxx get theirs, and those of us who don't, not take it.
The prejudice, from both sides, is silly.

I'd assume anyone who took it made an informed decision about being made a guinea pig for a new tech (mRNA).
I'd rather wait and see, especially since I got CoViD-19 (Delta) and almost died prior to vaccines being available, so having "further protection" was meaningless in my case, specially with new variants popping left and right at the time.

Ivermectin definitely works though, there are tons of evidence for it, so to see the "horse dewormers" fake news up to now is really... well, never mind.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 5, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> It should be a red flag that the news page the ranking is from doesn't mention what the metrics are for the ranking but how would you people realize that?
> 
> Meanwhile every other actual study that discloses their metrics places Florida at place 14 or lower.
> 
> ...


can i get more trustworthy receipts?


----------



## RAHelllord (Nov 5, 2022)

AlexMCS said:


> @DillyDilly I'm kinda bored right now, so I can cook up a simple GreaseMonkey/TamperMonkey script to block posts from this section (World News, Current Events & Politics) in the Recent Content for you. Interested?
> 
> On topic, let those who want to take the vaxx get theirs, and those of us who don't, not take it.
> The prejudice, from both sides, is silly.
> ...


mRNA vaccines have been in development since 1997, and have been successfully used on people for cancer related things since 2008, and in 2013 the first mRNA vaccine against an infectious disease got greenlit, specifically for rabies. So no, they haven't been experimental for quite some time now.
Also if you got a very early strain of covid an updated vaccine against newer strains may be beneficial for you, if you want some extra protection. Though it'd be best if you consult your doctor about that, they will be better suited to advise you.



AlexMCS said:


> Ivermectin definitely works though, there are tons of evidence for it, so to see the "horse dewormers" fake news up to now is really... well, never mind.


Not a single study has found evidence that there is a benefit to ivermectin against covid-19, literally none of them. The only evidence ever presented was from doctors who had stakes in companies selling the stuff.

It's also just logical that it won't help against covid much at all because ivermectin works by incapacitating the muscles of parasites in the gut, which allows the immune system to kill them. The active ingredient of the medicine does not leave the gut, and the gut is not the main place the virus infects as it targets respiratory organs mainly.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2022



lolcatzuru said:


> can i get more trustworthy receipts?


What do you define as trustworthy?


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 5, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Though it'd be best if you consult your doctor about that, they will be better suited to advise you.



I also got asymptomatic Omicron earlier this year as well. I think I'm good.
The doctor actually gave me a recommendation (the one that treated me for delta. Needing oxygen to breathe is not a fun experience...) not to get vaccinated due to very high IgE on my blood or something like that.



RAHelllord said:


> It's also just logical that it won't help against covid much at all because ivermectin works by incapacitating the muscles of parasites in the gut, which allows the immune system to kill them. The active ingredient of the medicine does not leave the gut, and the gut is not the main place the virus infects as it targets respiratory organs mainly.


Makes sense, but I've found many studies that say it's effective. Gotta research the researchers then.


----------



## Mythrandir (Nov 5, 2022)

The interesting thing regarding the COVID-19 fiasco is that citing multiple sources speckled throughout the period between 1970 and 2019 from the NIH's PubMed database supporting the claim that antibody prevalence, in the case of coronaviruses, had, at best, a weak correlation to disease severity constituted as misinformation. I still hold to the fact that SARS-CoV-2 is a naturally occurring virus that was exaggerated and sensationalized. To be honest, we have never tracked any disease as aggressively as we did with COVID-19. Because of this, it is possible that other common cold viruses may have similar mortality if they were traced and tracked as aggressively as this coronavirus. Other such cold viruses include rhinovirus, adenovirus, enterovirus, influenza, and parainfluenza. All of these cold viruses may also cause flu or flu-like illness ranging from mild to lethal severity. Even looking at the symptoms of the common cold, influenza, SARS, MERS, and COVID-19, there's little to no difference. Disease progression also does not differ. Interestingly, there was very little talk of hypercytokinemia (cytokine storm), the primary cause of death for the 1918 Flu, SARS, and MERS; and I suspect COVID-19 due SARS-CoV-2 being related to SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV as it is a SARS-like coronavirus. This would explain the anecdotal evidence supporting the efficacy of  hydroxychloroquine treatment. Hydroxychloroquine is used to treat autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. Hypercytokinemia is an autoimmune condition that will lead to sepsis. You know, no one talked about that and no one really cares because these facts were not put forth by neither those supporting the claim nor those opposing the claim.

Another contributing factor was the overuse of ventilators. This likely led to poor sanitary maintenance of the machines and equipment, allowing pathogenic bacterial growth such as _Streptococcus pneumoniae_. Such poor sanitary maintenance would allow opportunistic lung infection leading to an increase in pneumonia occurrences. This pneumonia would need to be treated with antibiotics due to the presence of a bacterial infection. If left untreated, the likelihood of hypercytokinemia increases. Again, I never heard anyone speak of this as a potential contributing factor to the mortality observed during 2020-2021. Again, I assume most do not care regardless of their partisanized opinion on the matter. The last couple years made me painfully aware that people are generally opposed to reality outside of their precious pocket computer screens, those "black mirrors." The majority's preoccupation with the "hyper reality" of the digital metaverse makes them vulnerable to stupefaction.

The problem is that all of these well known facts were forgotten in the hysteria of 2020. I also observed search engine results change over the course of 2020, most aggressively in the latter half of March through the first half of April, to bury certain studies to the point that search queries would not yield them unless you already knew they existed or were already familiar with querying the NIH's PubMed database. Some studies were even removed from public access, prompting me to start archiving them while they were still accessible. To my knowledge, I was among a microminority that was doing this relative to the other, less technical and less reliable, sources being archived. For the third time, I assume this is due to the majority not having much interest in the truth, opting to agree with whatever nonsense is spouted by their preferred political pundits and social commentators. At this time, I'm not sure I will ever vote for any federal offices. My trust in our political leaders was utterly destroyed in 2020.

I still seethe over the Forbes opinion article titled, "You Must Not ‘Do Your Own Research’ When It Comes To Science." This is because science is not some esoteric knowledge reserved for lofty technocratic initiates in which the profane plebeians are incapable of comprehension. The venerated expert does not hold a monopoly on what they consider to be "gnostic" truth. In this respect, I tend to agree with G.K. Chesterton's sentiment in _Heretics _(1905), in which I agreed with in 2019 and I was strongly affirmed in 2020:



> The truth is that the scientific civilization in which Mr. McCabe believes has one rather particular defect; it is perpetually tending to destroy that democracy or power of the ordinary man in which Mr. McCabe also believes.  Science means specialism, and specialism means oligarchy.  If you once establish the habit of trusting particular men to produce particular results in physics or astronomy, you leave the door open for the equally natural demand that you should trust particular men to do particular things in government and the coercing of men.  If, you feel it to be reasonable that one beetle should be the only study of one man, and that one man the only student of that one beetle, it is surely a very harmless consequence to go on to say that politics should be the only study of one man, and that one man the only student of politics. As I have pointed out elsewhere in this book, the expert is more aristocratic than the aristocrat, because the aristocrat is only the man who lives well, while the expert is the man who knows better. But if we look at the progress of our scientific civilization we see a gradual increase everywhere of the specialist over the popular function. Once men sang together round a table in chorus; now one man sings alone, for the absurd reason that he can sing better. If scientific civilization goes on (which is most improbable) only one man will laugh, because he can laugh better than the rest.



It is a heck of a rude awakening when people promote lies regarding a familiar subject from either partisan "side."


----------



## Korozin (Nov 5, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> as a fun fact, your first sentence is objectively, factually incorrect.




 Sorry for the late response, but I also never claimed to be correct - as I said in multiple of my other posts; I haven't touched up on this topic in quite a while. So thank you for the correction. I realize my wording was a bit - garbage, let's be honest. But like I said I'm not claiming to be correct.



lolcatzuru said:


> i know this because i researched because some kid on here tried to think they were smarter than me.



Not sure if you're referring to me on this one, but as a safeguard let me state it again. I never claimed to be correct, I never claimed to be smarter. I quite literally said in my other posts that I will fully accept it if I am wrong, and welcome anyone who proves me wrong - because that's called learning, and why would I deny that?



lolcatzuru said:


> Yes, the goal is to prevent infection and yes, it does do that. Here's an easy one, tetanus, if you get the vaccine, you will NOT get tetanus, its almost impossible, in fact i did a little digging... ALLEGELDLY there may have been 1 or 2 cases where this happened, but it wasn't even conclusive. Fun fact, same holds true for MMR(



Yes... I know this. However this isn't what I was referring to. I was talking specifically about the Covid vaccines which don't seem to have the same purpose as others - also like I said before : they work differently than other vaccines on a fundamental level. So much so that I disagree with them being called an actual "vaccine". They're mRNA sequenced injections that don't aim to stop infection. To put it simply Covid is a virus with too many variables, and too fast of a strain mutation cycle that we quite literally cannot make a vaccine that provides immunity; only alleviation after the fact of infection. It's just too unpredictable as of right now to have any solid measures against it.

Once again, I know my wording was horrible, but I genuinely was not trying to misinform, or claim superiority on a subject. Yes the purpose for vaccines originally was immunization, but that simply isn't possible for every type of Virus. Going to use the Flu as an example.. yet again. It mutates at such an absurd rate that an effective vaccine is nearly impossible. So the best-case solution we can provide is reinforcement for the infection after the fact, or try to predict which strain will come around infection season, which simply isn't always possible. The same can be said with Covid, except that Covid is even more unpredictable.



lolcatzuru said:


> If you wanna get an injection, that's on you, and your right, but you demonizing or vilifying someone for not getting something that probably wont help for something that will only really harm a VERY small portion of the population, is wrong



And I completely agree with you on this. The way vaccines were mandated, was absolutely ridiculous. I get the fear of having a virus spreading, but to force something upon the mass population which does in fact, not stop infection - is just wrong.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 6, 2022)

Korozin said:


> Sorry for the late response, but I also never claimed to be correct - as I said in multiple of my other posts; I haven't touched up on this topic in quite a while. So thank you for the correction. I realize my wording was a bit - garbage, let's be honest. But like I said I'm not claiming to be correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i apoligize if i came off rudely at all. and i agree with you on most points, but the problem is, you mention Mrna injections dont aim to stop infection, but, they are marketed as vaccines, do you know why?  to bypass emergency use

fun fact, mandates were also illegal


----------



## omgcat (Nov 6, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> do you have a source on this? all the data im seeing says that vaccinated people are dying in way higher numbers.



the stats have been showing a disparity between vaxxed and unvaxxed dying for months after the first vaccines rolled out globally. can i get a link to your data showing long term trends of vaxxed dying more?

here you go: https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

and

https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/...98-to-99-of-americans-dying-are-unvaccinated/

and

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/news/releases/2021/20211108.aspx

and

if you want to trawl the data yourself and maybe run some stats analysis for yourself here is a data set:
https://data.chhs.ca.gov/dataset/covid-19-post-vaccination-infection-data

the newest variants seem to have fully evaded the immunity gained from previous infections from alpha to omicron, and is even evading hospital risk reduction for everyone. the next population to eat it real bad are probably going to be kids who get any combination of RSV/covid/flu.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 6, 2022)

omgcat said:


> the stats have been showing a disparity between vaxxed and unvaxxed dying for months after the first vaccines rolled out globally. can i get a link to your data showing long term trends of vaxxed dying more?
> 
> here you go: https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf
> 
> ...



none of those are reliable

edit: can you find me one that does not advocate lupron


----------



## omgcat (Nov 6, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> none of those are reliable
> 
> edit: can you find me one that does not advocate lupron



can you explain why they are not reliable? also while you're at it can you post your sources as well? i'm not in the mood for sealioning:


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 6, 2022)

omgcat said:


> can you explain why they are not reliable? also while you're at it can you post your sources as well? i'm not in the mood for sealioning: View attachment 335997



i agree, why are you doing that, all i  did was ask for accurate sources from institutions that havent lied to the public for years.


----------



## RAHelllord (Nov 6, 2022)

Mythrandir said:


> The interesting thing regarding the COVID-19 fiasco is that citing multiple sources speckled throughout the period between 1970 and 2019 from the NIH's PubMed database supporting the claim that antibody prevalence, in the case of coronaviruses, had, at best, a weak correlation to disease severity constituted as misinformation. I still hold to the fact that SARS-CoV-2 is a naturally occurring virus that was exaggerated and sensationalized. To be honest, we have never tracked any disease as aggressively as we did with COVID-19. Because of this, it is possible that other common cold viruses may have similar mortality if they were traced and tracked as aggressively as this coronavirus. Other such cold viruses include rhinovirus, adenovirus, enterovirus, influenza, and parainfluenza. All of these cold viruses may also cause flu or flu-like illness ranging from mild to lethal severity. Even looking at the symptoms of the common cold, influenza, SARS, MERS, and COVID-19, there's little to no difference. Disease progression also does not differ. Interestingly, there was very little talk of hypercytokinemia (cytokine storm), the primary cause of death for the 1918 Flu, SARS, and MERS; and I suspect COVID-19 due SARS-CoV-2 being related to SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV as it is a SARS-like coronavirus. This would explain the anecdotal evidence supporting the efficacy of  hydroxychloroquine treatment. Hydroxychloroquine is used to treat autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. Hypercytokinemia is an autoimmune condition that will lead to sepsis. You know, no one talked about that and no one really cares because these facts were not put forth by neither those supporting the claim nor those opposing the claim.


Literally every publication has found that cykotine storms are what ultimately kills people ill from COVID-19, and basically any other infectious disease due to it being a normal escalation step of the immune system getting overrun by viruses or bacteria.

A cykotine storm, that is caused by a heavy infection and not due to an autoimmune disorder, is a last ditch effort by the immune system to just mobilize every single memory cell, helper cell, and anything else it has access to whether they're relevant to the disease or not. The reason for this is that the body is already in the process of dying and it's a last ditch effort to kill the infection before it kills the host.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work as a treatment against covid-19 because it affects a different mechanism that may cause an incorrect activation of a cykotine storm, and is not relevant when the activation is "proper".


Mythrandir said:


> Another contributing factor was the overuse of ventilators. This likely led to poor sanitary maintenance of the machines and equipment, allowing pathogenic bacterial growth such as _Streptococcus pneumoniae_. Such poor sanitary maintenance would allow opportunistic lung infection leading to an increase in pneumonia occurrences. This pneumonia would need to be treated with antibiotics due to the presence of a bacterial infection. If left untreated, the likelihood of hypercytokinemia increases. Again, I never heard anyone speak of this as a potential contributing factor to the mortality observed during 2020-2021. Again, I assume most do not care regardless of their partisanized opinion on the matter. The last couple years made me painfully aware that people are generally opposed to reality outside of their precious pocket computer screens, those "black mirrors." The majority's preoccupation with the "hyper reality" of the digital metaverse makes them vulnerable to stupefaction.


Vast swathes of COVID-19 victims have been obducted and their tissues analyzed, no bacerial infections have been found at higher rates than expected, which means very low. However victims that already had a compromised immune system are more likely to get hit with a double whammy as the covid-19 gets worse and causes damage to the lungs, making a secondary infection more likely to take root.


Mythrandir said:


> I still seethe over the Forbes opinion article titled, "You Must Not ‘Do Your Own Research’ When It Comes To Science." This is because science is not some esoteric knowledge reserved for lofty technocratic initiates in which the profane plebeians are incapable of comprehension. The venerated expert does not hold a monopoly on what they consider to be "gnostic" truth. In this respect, I tend to agree with G.K. Chesterton's sentiment in _Heretics _(1905), in which I agreed with in 2019 and I was strongly affirmed in 2020:


You aren't doing research when you read a research paper and don't understand the intricacies of the subject matter, you're basically hoping the language is simple enough you can understand the words and then hope you have the knowledge to properly contextualize what you just read. And in things as complex as the immune system that is very unlikely to be the case unless you actually studied the subject.
There's an entire workfield dedicated to taking research papers and scientific studies jargon to translate it back into everyday English while also giving an abstract of the relevant context to help put it into perspective and communicate what it's actually trying to say to the masses.
Science communication is that field, and one great example that's relevant in this context is Philipp Dettmer and his book "Immune! A journey into the mysterious system that keeps you alive", which basically got written for the express purpose of taking one of the most complex systems known to mankind and actually attempt to help make it understandable to everyone and not just people who have studied the immune system for a decade or longer. And even then the book constantly reminds people that it is an oversimplification and that the actual deal is far more complex than can be condensed into 400 pages


lolcatzuru said:


> i agree, why are you doing that, all i  did was ask for accurate sources from institutions that havent lied to the public for years.


The CDC hasn't lied to anyone, it's an agency that has to collect and interpret data and as a result may have to readjust their position later as more data is collected.
The data they have collected has always been correct, the recommendations they have made based on the data they had at any given time, was always made with our best understanding of the science behind it and a big heaping of caution for safety.
Unless you presume that the CDC should be clairvoyant to only make true the statements at any given time the reality is going to be they're going to have to make educated guesses at some points, and those may end up wrong once the facts actually become known after it has happened and has been analyzed proper.
For example masks have been recommended because they inhibit how quickly and how far the breath of a person carries, which in turn means aerosol that may contain a viral load will also subsequently travel a short distance and fall to the ground earlier. And when we didn't know how big exactly the viruses were the recommendation was to try and wear any mask one may get their hands on just in case.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 6, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Literally every publication has found that cykotine storms are what ultimately kills people ill from COVID-19, and basically any other infectious disease due to it being a normal escalation step of the immune system getting overrun by viruses or bacteria.
> 
> A cykotine storm, that is caused by a heavy infection and not due to an autoimmune disorder, is a last ditch effort by the immune system to just mobilize every single memory cell, helper cell, and anything else it has access to whether they're relevant to the disease or not. The reason for this is that the body is already in the process of dying and it's a last ditch effort to kill the infection before it kills the host.
> 
> ...



so everything you said in relation to me, is completely false. They absolutely lied when they said they tested it, they did not. The said you couldnt pass on the infection once you got the vaccine, that was also a lie, they said masks are effective, the god of science fauci, said they werent then lied and said they were i assume kickbacks were involved, now they are saying they arent again, and for the record, there are a few studies around saying at BEST masks are inconclusive


oh and that " grifter" malone says masks only filter about 12% you have to do better.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 6, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> I know a lot of you here are in favor of the Covid Vaccine and that's fine, but don't try to push it on to others. Let each and everyone make their own decision respectfully.





sarkwalvein said:


> I haven't even watched the video, so I have no opinion on that, but I completely agree with this statement.
> 
> I chose to trust the vaccine. I'm fine with that.  But I'm not fine with the posing, virtue signaling, harassing and persecution of others. One thing is to try to convince somebody, a different thing is trying to force somebody. And one thing that just the putrid society we live in could do is to actively cast people away and diminish them in a time of need. Humanity.


We should force the vaccine on people ala X-Men 3: The Last Stand style.


----------



## RAHelllord (Nov 6, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> so everything you said in relation to me, is completely false. They absolutely lied when they said they tested it, they did not. The said you couldnt pass on the infection once you got the vaccine, that was also a lie, they said masks are effective, the god of science fauci, said they werent then lied and said they were i assume kickbacks were involved, now they are saying they arent again, and for the record, there are a few studies around saying at BEST masks are inconclusive
> 
> 
> oh and that " grifter" malone says masks only filter about 12% you have to do better.


Go and find me sources from the CDC where any of those things you claimed were written. The copies are up on the waybackmachine and other such internet archival sites.

You will find they said none of that, or the statements are taken wildly out of context and are meaningless without said context.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 6, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Go and find me sources from the CDC where any of those things you claimed were written. The copies are up on the waybackmachine and other such internet archival sites.
> 
> You will find they said none of that, or the statements are taken wildly out of context and are meaningless without said context.



well malone doesnt work for the CDC so you can find that on JRC,  i can send you a video link of joe brandon, birx and fauci saying you cant spread it, i can also send you a video of a director as pfizer saying they didnt test it, would that suffice?


for the record, i have these videos ( with links) and yes, they did say all these things, and the surrounding context for them.


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## Mythrandir (Nov 6, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Literally every publication has found that cykotine storms are what ultimately kills people ill from COVID-19, and basically any other infectious disease due to it being a normal escalation step of the immune system getting overrun by viruses or bacteria.
> 
> A cykotine storm, that is caused by a heavy infection and not due to an autoimmune disorder, is a last ditch effort by the immune system to just mobilize every single memory cell, helper cell, and anything else it has access to whether they're relevant to the disease or not. The reason for this is that the body is already in the process of dying and it's a last ditch effort to kill the infection before it kills the host.
> 
> Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work as a treatment against covid-19 because it affects a different mechanism that may cause an incorrect activation of a cykotine storm, and is not relevant when the activation is "proper".



It is not necessarily true that the body is already in the dying process when hypercytokinemia occurs. The most famous example being the 1918 Spanish Flu. Documentation, as well as discussions during my undergrad, indicated that mortality was higher among those with vigorous immune systems while mortality was lower in populations with less vigorous immune systems contrary to previous flu strains, hence the 2009 H1N1 scare. From my understanding, the trigger for hypercytokinemia is not well understood.

Whether or not hydroxychloroquine will not treat COVID-19 is, in my understanding, undetermined. It was a controversial treatment for SARS and, if my memory is correct, MERS as well, though the claims are only supported by anecdotal observation.



RAHelllord said:


> Vast swathes of COVID-19 victims have been obducted and their tissues analyzed, no bacerial infections have been found at higher rates than expected, which means very low. However victims that already had a compromised immune system are more likely to get hit with a double whammy as the covid-19 gets worse and causes damage to the lungs, making a secondary infection more likely to take root.



From what was discussed during my undergrad and what I've later read, most colds, flus, and flu-like illnesses are complexes of multiple pathogenic infections, especially those of severe illness, which often includes complexes of viral and bacterial pathogens. During my undergrad, it was discussed that ventilators are infamously difficult for proper sanitary maintenance, a known contributing factor of SARS mortality. Due to the COVID-19 hysteria, it is not unreasonable to assume that proper sanitary protocol was not followed when healthcare providers already had difficulty following these protocols before 2020. It is surprising to me that bacterial lung infections would be low considering increased ventilator use. This factor alone should have increased the occurrence of bacterial lung infection, especially considering healthcare service providers were beyond capacity and under staffed, which should have also increased occurrences as this would have made it more difficult to follow proper sanitary maintenance protocol.



RAHelllord said:


> You aren't doing research when you read a research paper and don't understand the intricacies of the subject matter, you're basically hoping the language is simple enough you can understand the words and then hope you have the knowledge to properly contextualize what you just read. And in things as complex as the immune system that is very unlikely to be the case unless you actually studied the subject.
> There's an entire workfield dedicated to taking research papers and scientific studies jargon to translate it back into everyday English while also giving an abstract of the relevant context to help put it into perspective and communicate what it's actually trying to say to the masses.
> Science communication is that field, and one great example that's relevant in this context is Philipp Dettmer and his book "Immune! A journey into the mysterious system that keeps you alive", which basically got written for the express purpose of taking one of the most complex systems known to mankind and actually attempt to help make it understandable to everyone and not just people who have studied the immune system for a decade or longer. And even then the book constantly reminds people that it is an oversimplification and that the actual deal is far more complex than can be condensed into 400 pages



Such a discipline is also more generally referred to as hermeneutics. Although the term is more popularly applied to biblical interpretation, the concept is applied by everyone everyday to any communication medium. The language of the original text does not need to already be simplified for the audience if they are willing to put forth the effort to learn any unfamiliar terminology or concept required to understand and interpret, in context, the text of concern. No initiation into secret knowledge is necessary, contrary to the claims of gnostic technocrats.

I do recognize the complexity of immunology, hence my skepticism of mRNA "vaccines." Biomolecular processes are complex and not nearly as well understood as the venerated experts claim they are. Some things we know pretty well, while others we only think we know. 

Claiming that mRNA based treatments are not a class of gene therapy has misinformed the majority of people regarding the subject of genetic expression. Genetic expression is protein expression, in which mRNA is a necessary component. Also, the promotion of COVID-19 antiviral drugs is, at best, reckless. The toxicity of nucleotide/nucleoside analogs (Merck's mulnupiravir) as well as protease inhibitors (Pfizer's Paxlovid) are not well communicated by the FDA, CDC, WHO, pharmaceutical manufacturers, nor popular media. Communicating such concerns regarding toxicity, citing reputable sources through the NIH's PubMed database, is deemed the malicious spread of misinformation because so-called fact checkers have determined that all raised concerns are the lunatic ravings of anti-science plebeians lacking any comprehension or formal education of molecular biology for the absurd fantasy that anonymous democratic consensus is reality.


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 7, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> none of those are reliable
> 
> edit: can you find me one that does not advocate lupron


This is the exact problem with people like you claiming to want an earnest debate. You ask for sources and then when you're given them, you dismiss them as untrustworthy based on some invisible and hitherto undeclared criteria that I suspect you're making up on the spot.

What's your reasoning that these sources don't work as evidence? Quick reminder that choosing to go for an ad hominem attack is basically saying 'I don't have one I'm just making it up as I go along', so please do actually answer the question in good faith.


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## Youkai (Nov 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> This is the exact problem with people like you claiming to want an earnest debate. You ask for sources and then when you're given them, you dismiss them as untrustworthy based on some invisible and hitherto undeclared criteria that I suspect you're making up on the spot.
> 
> What's your reasoning that these sources don't work as evidence? Quick reminder that choosing to go for an ad hominem attack is basically saying 'I don't have one I'm just making it up as I go along', so please do actually answer the question in good faith.



True but you can't change that the government and even some of those health organisations did lie A LOT! over the last 3 years so its hard to believe those kind of sources.

I know in Germany we do have some "famours" virologists who openly told us for almost 2 years now that Corona will be endemic and that vaccination against it only makes sense for old people and that masks hardly help especially when you aren't old and or ill but those guys often where badmouthed by others who thought otherwise so everything they said was supposedly bullshit.

Now we should trust those organisations that weren't able to properly discuss something with actuall scientists (and there were more then just one or two even though it became less and less as they were all scared to talk openly) and just take everything they say for granted ?

Like I for one always watched statista.de thay provide statistics about almost everything and are even paid (at least partially) by our government and most of their statistics were never mentioned in the media at all.
Best example is they were daily preaching about 200-300 people that died again "today" but look at the statistics, normaly in Germany its ~3500 so yeah 200-300 is hardly anything if you know that but they used it to cause panic.
Also within 3 years less then 1000 people below the age of 30 died "with" corona, thats absolutely nothing so why bother with a vaccination that could possibly also cause harm like some severe side effects and even long covid.
Right now almost all corona infections they find are side findings on people that had to go to the hospital for something else.


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 7, 2022)

Youkai said:


> True but you can't change that the government and even some of those health organisations did lie A LOT! over the last 3 years so its hard to believe those kind of sources.
> 
> I know in Germany we do have some "famours" virologists who openly told us for almost 2 years now that Corona will be endemic and that vaccination against it only makes sense for old people and that masks hardly help especially when you aren't old and or ill but those guys often where badmouthed by others who thought otherwise so everything they said was supposedly bullshit.
> 
> ...


That's true, I don't have an issue with distrusting certain sources because of what they are (UK tabloids being a strong example) or who they're tied to. What I do have an issue with is somebody asking for scientific evidence and dismissing a handful of disinterested sources which provide that evidence — especially when they then go on to parrot the same things that conspiracy theorists are saying with no evidence of their own.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> This is the exact problem with people like you claiming to want an earnest debate. You ask for sources and then when you're given them, you dismiss them as untrustworthy based on some invisible and hitherto undeclared criteria that I suspect you're making up on the spot.
> 
> What's your reasoning that these sources don't work as evidence? Quick reminder that choosing to go for an ad hominem attack is basically saying 'I don't have one I'm just making it up as I go along', so please do actually answer the question in good faith.



look idk what ed elrics dad has anything to do with anything but its like i said, whene the sources lie constantly, that makes them unreliable, sorry.


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## Delerious (Nov 7, 2022)

I kind of find the notion of "Pandemic Amnesty" stupid to begin with. Most people aren't going to be thinking about this in their daily lives anyway, especially after a few years.


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 7, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> look idk what ed elrics dad has anything to do with anything but its like i said, whene the sources lie constantly, that makes them unreliable, sorry.


Had to Google that name. Of all the things I thought you might respond with, an anime reference was not one of them. Oh brother.

I think that’s all the answer I need. I can tell you’re a good person but yeah, something tells me it would be morally wrong to keep pressing you. Let’s leave it here.


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## sith (Nov 7, 2022)

i cant believe catboy, zxi and other like them (Osakasan) still show up to these threads and try to maintain the straight up government propaganda bullshit that everyone with a brain knew a year ago was outright false and even the dumbest among us now have come to grips with and realized the reality, covid shots are harmful experiments against a lab leak virus, without any efficacy, not producing secretory immunoglobulins while programing our immune cells to make ace2 cleaving, disease causing spike protein..in spite of all that we have the wilfully ignorant trolls of gbatemp to come and suggest nonsense like we've beaten the coof and the flu with vaccines hahaha


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## omgcat (Nov 7, 2022)

sith said:


> i cant believe catboy, zxi and other like them (Osakasan) still show up to these threads and try to maintain the straight up government propaganda bullshit that everyone with a brain knew a year ago was outright false and even the dumbest among us now have come to grips with and realized the reality, covid shots are harmful experiments against a lab leak virus, without any efficacy, not producing secretory immunoglobulins while programing our immune cells to make ace2 cleaving, disease causing spike protein..in spite of all that we have the wilfully ignorant trolls of gbatemp to come and suggest nonsense like we've beaten the coof and the flu with vaccines hahaha



except we haven't beaten the flu, most vaccines do not impart perfect immunity (hence the need for boosters), and that isn't how spike proteins work. i'm really wondering if GBAtemp just attracts people with TBIs or something.


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## Youkai (Nov 8, 2022)

sith said:


> i cant believe catboy, zxi and other like them (Osakasan) still show up to these threads and try to maintain the straight up government propaganda bullshit that everyone with a brain knew a year ago was outright false and even the dumbest among us now have come to grips with and realized the reality, covid shots are harmful experiments against a lab leak virus, without any efficacy, not producing secretory immunoglobulins while programing our immune cells to make ace2 cleaving, disease causing spike protein..in spite of all that we have the wilfully ignorant trolls of gbatemp to come and suggest nonsense like we've beaten the coof and the flu with vaccines hahaha



Well as you can see in my former posts I am also kinda against what most governments told us about Corona but then again not everything the Government says is per se wrong or bad !

In this case I feel that they tend to hide the truth a lot of times like not actually lying a lot but just phrasing it so that it sounds much worse then it is trying to hide their own mistakes.

As I was kind of a fan of how Sweden went with the Pandemic, hardly no mask mandatory at all no vaccination mandatory but they also still asked at least old people to get the Vaccination which I think is okay, watching the statistics for old people the benefits of the Vaccination does make sense even compared to the risks while imho it doesn't make much sense for young people.
And the worst part ist that some of the officials in the Government as well as news agencies stir up the people to kinda hunt unvaccinated down and make them miserable even though there is no proper reason for it as well as there are reports (at least here in Germany) that also say wearing mask to much can cause your immune system to get weaker as well as that it doesn't do much if you are forced as most people use it wrong if they don't want to use it making it completely useless waste production.

People should just protect themselves however they want and as long as the vaccination doesn't make you 100% stop giving the virus to someone else there is no reason why anyone should be forced to get a vaccination like this. If it would make you 100% stop spreading I could somehow understand it even though then again its not my job to save others but then it would make sense and a lot of people might get it just because they actutally would want to "help"


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## Marc_LFD (Nov 8, 2022)

This video covers perfectly why we'll never forgive and never forget. It's absolutely disgusting to hear them say it themselves, but goes to show why freedom should never be taken for granted.



Our ancestors died to keep us free and these dictators wanted to get us under control under the pretense of "health."


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## tabzer (Nov 8, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> This video covers perfectly why we'll never forgive and never forget. It's absolutely disgusting to hear them say it themselves, but goes to show why freedom should never be taken for granted.
> 
> 
> 
> Our ancestors died to keep us free and these dictators wanted to get us under control under the pretense of "health."




This seems like a "soft 9/11".  There seems to be a higher power, wanting us to become smarter.  The government does not love you.  Wake up sheeple.


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## sith (Nov 9, 2022)

minox what the fuck ? i refuted the lies told by omgcat with solid facts and spelt out scientific evidence and you delete all of it, this is an off-topic political opinions chat why do you have a problem with people hearing the truth?? stop running defence for these obviously disingenuous villians, I'm trying to help people snap out of their brainwashed head in the sand perspectives and not only do i gotta deal with the dumb shits in question but also the mod staff??



	Post automatically merged: Nov 9, 2022



lolcatzuru said:


> Yes, the goal is to prevent infection and yes, it does do that.


you are going to with a straight face say covid vaccines prevent infection? what planet are you living on?
can't believe how many here will still spew this.. again IM injections won't make IGAs in nasal airways https://doctors4covidethics.org/immunology-101-why-intramuscular-covid-19-vaccination-must-fail/ 
and here where only intra-nasal vaccines were able to prevent infection
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9638159/


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## Minox (Nov 9, 2022)

sith said:


> minox what the fuck ? i refuted the lies told by omgcat with solid facts and spelt out scientific evidence and you delete all of it, this is an off-topic political opinions chat why do you have a problem with people hearing the truth?? stop running defence for these obviously disingenuous villians, I'm trying to help people snap out of their brainwashed head in the sand perspectives and not only do i gotta deal with the dumb shits in question but also the mod staff??


You're defeating no points by being rude and personally attacking people. Please lay that off and your refutations surely hold more weight.


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## sith (Nov 9, 2022)

Its hardly rude to tell someone exactly how they are wrong after they say you have brain damage. They couldn't even read what was very clearly said without taking it to mean the exact opposite of its intention.



Minox said:


> You're defeating no points by being rude and personally attacking people. Please lay that off and your refutations surely hold more weight.



the honest truth as it directly relates to the OP is - If you still think forced experimental ineffective vaccines and unethical mandates against the charter of rights was the right thing to do or that others who resisted/denied the abuse are anything other than free individuals expressing their inalienable charter rights of opinion and expression then you do DESERVE TO BE ATTACKED PERSONALLY (verbally of course) as thats exactly what those people have done to others these last years.

 Its high time to become the monster and fight a fair fight. Being nice is the reason we got our rights trampled on and the truckers freedom convoy was dispersed so easily by an illegal invocation of the emergencies act, the altruistic people there fighting for every individuals rights, including those whom they disagree with, are the principled and critical minded that wouldn't stoop so low, so someone has to.. i guess its me. If they are gonna try an slam me with inaccurate derogatory "anti-vaxxer" labels then i should call them what they are, stupid motherless neo-fascists authoritarians.


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## LainaGabranth (Nov 9, 2022)

Dudes will post a clip from some UK group no one gives a fuck about (even in the UK!) and then go "SEE?? SEE?? THE ENTIRE AMERICAN MEDIA IS APOLOGIZING NOW!"

The mind of the anti-vaxxer is truly...an enigma.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 9, 2022



sith said:


> Its hardly rude to tell someone exactly how they are wrong after they say you have brain damage. They couldn't even read what was very clearly said without taking it to mean the exact opposite of its intention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're not oppressed and never will be.


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## Korozin (Nov 9, 2022)

sith said:


> you are going to with a straight face say covid vaccines prevent infection? what planet are you living on?



Not what they said at all. If you looked at the post history between me and them you'll see that I pointed out several times that Covid Vaccines don't aim to prevent infection - which they agreed with.


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## sith (Nov 9, 2022)

Korozin said:


> Not what they said at all. If you looked at the post history between me and them you'll see that I pointed out several times that Covid Vaccines don't aim to prevent infection - which they agreed with.


are you joking? trolling? if not then you are all completely WRONG then. Clearly the aim of ALL vaccines is to program the body against infection and spread, fauci said the "Gold Standard" of vaccines was to be equal to the naturally acquired IMMUNITY. i just posted the article (before it was censored by minox) exploring nasal aspiration delivery to enable secretory IGA and overcome the the obvious limitations of current vaxs.... that they don't do what they were engineered to do, prevent spread.

its hilarious that after years of it being sold on "stop the spread" and "do it for your grandma and neighbour" and everyone fired from hospitals, you are gonna try and do a sort of "no true scotsman" fallacy and reframe it as if it was always to just lower the mortality and symptoms of a nonleathal (now) virus. my inclination is to again to conclude with a "fuck off with that disingenous garbage" but minox would get mad.

https://googlethatforyou.com?q=what is the aim of vaccines


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## Cylent1 (Nov 9, 2022)

The unvaxxed are the new "Pure Blood"!
And I don't have any apathy to the ones that did get the tyrannicall jab that never worked and isnt ever going to work!
Call me what you will but in the future I know for a damn fact I will not be one of those covid jab statistics!
What ever happen to being better safe than sorry?


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## Korozin (Nov 9, 2022)

sith said:


> Clearly the aim of ALL vaccines is to program the body against infection and spread, fauci said the "Gold Standard" of vaccines was to be equal to the naturally acquired IMMUNITY. i just posted the article (before it was censored by minox) exploring nasal aspiration delivery to enable secretory IGA and overcome the the obvious limitations of current vaxs.... that they don't do what they were engineered to do, prevent spread.



Not refuting this. The aim of a Vaccine is indeed stopping infection and spread. However I never said anything against that.

What I was saying is that the Covid vaccine as it is currently - does not do that. Like I said in my other post (that you no doubt neglected to read, so once again, missing context) Covid is just too unpredictable to have any actual measures against it. It mutates too much, and put quite simply - it's different from most other viruses. This means that fighting it the same way as other viruses wont always work. The only thing we can really do is reinforce our bodies to minimize symptoms or prevent hospitalization since we quite literally cannot easily create any immunity against it as of right now.

Take another look at the Flu _(for the third time in my posts, which once again I doubt you even looked at) _It's another virus that has an absurdly fast and unpredictable mutation cycle, and we can't always predict which strain might blow around Flu Season, and guess what? Not every Flu Vaccine works for every Flu strain, therefore not every Flu Vaccine prevents infection. It's the same with Covid except on a much larger and even more unpredictable scale - so much so that the Covid Vaccines, don't provide any actual immunity to Covid.

But of course you'd rather assume what I'm talking about rather than reading what I actually said. Because if you bothered to read my posts, you would see that I was agreeing with you on some of your points.

Let me summarize again. The current Covid Vaccines don't prevent infection, nor stop the spread of it. I'm not trolling, joking, or being an idiot. I was agreeing with you, but maybe you just didn't see that because once again, you didn't bother to read my posts, now did you?

@lolcatzuru  Was stating that _normal_ Vaccines, aim to provide immunity, and stop spread / infection. They in no way stated that the Covid vaccine does the same thing. I went on to say this as well, and guess what? They also agreed.

Which once again, shows that you didn't. read. the. damn. posts.

By the way, why are you assuming that I'm re-framing the vaccine? I always thought of it this way, and I was also against the mandates. The Covid vaccine never prevented infection, and it works in such a way that I actually disagree with even calling it a "vaccine". Which guess what? That's another thing I said in my posts! Oh wow! Looks like getting context about a situation before you comment on it makes a difference after all!


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## Rena_to84 (Nov 9, 2022)

IN JANUARY OF 2020, THE "WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION" TWEETED THAT THE CCP FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF TRANSMISSION BETWEEN HUMANS FOR THE NEW CHINESE VIRUS.
YOU ARE SLAVES. YOU ARE F*CKING SLAVES, YOU IGNORANT FOOLS.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 9, 2022)

Korozin said:


> Not refuting this. The aim of a Vaccine is indeed stopping infection and spread. However I never said anything against that.
> 
> What I was saying is that the Covid vaccine as it is currently - does not do that. Like I said in my other post (that you no doubt neglected to read, so once again, missing context) Covid is just too unpredictable to have any actual measures against it. It mutates too much, and put quite simply - it's different from most other viruses. This means that fighting it the same way as other viruses wont always work. The only thing we can really do is reinforce our bodies to minimize symptoms or prevent hospitalization since we quite literally cannot easily create any immunity against it as of right now.
> 
> ...



hes the problem you lied because they did say EXACTLY that. i have proof if youd love to see it.


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## titan_tim (Nov 9, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> ahh an anti science racist, the cdc confirms ivermectin is a preventative, try to avoid using conspiracies in the future, thanks.


Not sure if anyone later on in the posts pointed this out to you, but it's already been pretty conclusive that it does nothing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninash...us-placebo-to-treat-covid-19/?sh=273171433bcd

This study came out late last month, and shows that even a placebo can have more positive effects than ivermectin. So if you want to follow the science, it's been pretty conclusive.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 9, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Not sure if anyone later on in the posts pointed this out to you, but it's already been pretty conclusive that it does nothing.
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninash...us-placebo-to-treat-covid-19/?sh=273171433bcd
> 
> This study came out late last month, and shows that even a placebo can have more positive effects than ivermectin. So if you want to follow the science, it's been pretty conclusive.



ahh more racists, trust your institutions, the cdc wouldnt haven it on their site if it didnt work, you maga extremist.


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## titan_tim (Nov 10, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> ahh more racists, trust your institutions, the cdc wouldnt haven it on their site if it didnt work, you maga extremist.


First: Racist? Whatever.....

Second: You talked about following the scientific method, and then you switch to "trust your intuition"? Intuition needs to be followed by testing your theories. Those theories were tested, and now we have an answer. It's as useful as a placebo.

Third: MAGA extremist? You DO know who was pushing ivermectin in the first place, right?

Fourth: This must just be a troll trying to get attention or extreme sarcasm. Nobody can be THAT obtuse.


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## Korozin (Nov 10, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> hes the problem you lied because they did say EXACTLY that. i have proof if youd love to see it.



Hold on can you re-word this? As I'm not sure if this is directed to be an insult towards me. Genuine confusion here.

Because this dude (sith) took something you said out of context and basically called you an idiot for it - I was trying to defend what you said, and by extension what I had said as well.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 10, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> First: Racist? Whatever.....
> 
> Second: You talked about following the scientific method, and then you switch to "trust your intuition"? Intuition needs to be followed by testing your theories. Those theories were tested, and now we have an answer. It's as useful as a placebo.
> 
> ...



institution* and nope ive never trolled ever, im just saying, im telling you something that you can argue with, as it is from science themselves, and you are trying to say its wrong, i didnt get that option before, you dont get it now.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2022



Korozin said:


> Hold on can you re-word this? As I'm not sure if this is directed to be an insult towards me. Genuine confusion here.
> 
> Because this dude (sith) took something you said out of context and basically called you an idiot for it - I was trying to defend what you said, and by extension what I had said as well.



i think we are getting wires crossed as i generally dont rea WoTS


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## stanna (Nov 10, 2022)

https://openvaers.com/      of course all these are just coincidence.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2022

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality    scary stuff.


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## LainaGabranth (Nov 10, 2022)

Vaccines are based and mandates are more based.


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## sith (Nov 10, 2022)

Korozin said:


> If you looked at the post history between me and them you'll see that I pointed out several times that Covid Vaccines don't aim to prevent infection - which they agreed with.





Korozin said:


> The aim of a Vaccine is indeed stopping infection and spread. However I never said anything against that.



-snip-


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## Korozin (Nov 10, 2022)

@sith  Yes, my wording is bad. I get where I went wrong. But that doesn't change what I meant, and the fact that I agreed with the main idea of your posts.

Plus you took what the other person said out of context.

I own up to my shit wording, you at least own up to insulting someone because you didn't read their post.



sith said:


> -snip-



Little harsh there don't you think? Once again, yes my wording was bad, and yes I admit that. Do you want me to fix it or not? Because my point was that the Covid Vaccines dont stop infection, regardless of whether or not they aim to do so. I never _meant_ to say that they never aimed to, but like I said. my shit wording is at fault here. _Which I own up to._

The fact of the matter here is that I'm not the only one who did anything wrong here. You took what the other person said, out of context, and took the exact opposite point from what they said.

Lets look at it again, shall we?



lolcatzuru said:


> Yes, the goal is to prevent infection and yes, it does do that.



This is what lolcat said, saying what NORMAL Vaccines do. AKA _*not*_ the COVID Vaccines? And you went on to say this



sith said:


> you are going to with a straight face say covid vaccines prevent infection? what planet are you living on?



which is the exact _OPPOSITE_ of what they were conveying.

Like I said, I own up to my shit wording. Own up to taking shit out of context because you can't bother to read.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2022

@sith   Are you just going to be an asshole because I made a wording mistake, one that I owned up to.

But not even amend the fact that you blatantly didn't even read the person's post before getting the exact opposite point from them, then proceeding to call them out for a point they never even made?

I guess we know your priorities then.


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## sith (Nov 10, 2022)

Korozin said:


> I own up to my shit wording, you at least own up to insulting someone because you didn't read their post.


ok, I am not beyond being rude unjustly, misreading/comprehending incorrectly etc, but i did read through this whole thread and I don't understand where I would have misinterpreted. i quoted when i addressed someone and at the end of the day its not a competition of who is the most correct all the time, I am speaking to defend my opinion universally against general rebuttal based on its merits alone with facts data and observation, because i say "this does this", doesn't mean someone said it didn't. Take the personal shit away and don't appeal to someones credentials/authority just make a logical argument from scratch with good premises and you can change my mind/understanding if done well, give it a try.

my simple argument:

Intramuscular inoculations have been shown to not produce the immunoglobulins required to reduce viral load and prevent infection in the nasalmucosa. Covid and the flu are respiratory illnesses that enter and shed from the nasalmucosa therefor the
current IM "vaccines" will fail to prevent infection or spread.


----------



## Korozin (Nov 10, 2022)

@sith  I apologize if I was being rude as well, but what I was trying to point out was that in a post of lolcat's they stated that normal vaccines, do in fact stop infection - but that Covid Vaccines did not.

You went on to call them out saying that they believed Covid Vaccines DID stop infection. When they clearly stated the opposite of that.

I tried pointing that out, but obviously that's where my wording mistake came in - which once again I apologize for that.

Then I tried clearing it up further only to be called a "bald faced liar" so you can imagine my frustration here.



sith said:


> Intramuscular inoculations have been shown to not produce the immunoglobulins required to reduce viral load and prevent infection in the nasalmucosa. Covid and the flu are respiratory illnesses that enter and shed from the nasalmucosa therefor the
> current IM "vaccines" will fail to prevent infection or spread.



And like I said before, I agree with this. I wasn't opposing it.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2022

@sith  Let me just put it again to be extra, _extra _clear.

This is what they said



lolcatzuru said:


> Yes, the goal is to prevent infection and yes, it does do that.



They were stating that normal vaccines do in fact prevent infection. But that Covid Vaccines did not.


You responded to them with this.



sith said:


> you are going to with a straight face say covid vaccines prevent infection? what planet are you living on?



which is in fact, the opposite of what they said.

hence where you misunderstood. Get where I'm coming from?

I apologize for rudeness, but you did genuinely miss the context from the post.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2022)

Rena_to84 said:


> IN JANUARY OF 2020, THE "WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION" TWEETED THAT THE CCP FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF TRANSMISSION BETWEEN HUMANS FOR THE NEW CHINESE VIRUS.
> YOU ARE SLAVES. YOU ARE F*CKING SLAVES, YOU IGNORANT FOOLS.



Covid was a hoax. All the people that "died" are all paid actors. They still live among us. But relocated to Africa where 2pac is living right now. 

They were tired of all the pronouns and politically correct libtards so they faked their death in a giant hoax so they can live in a different country peacefully. Stop exposing them and let them live peacefully.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 11, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> institution* and nope ive never trolled ever, im just saying, im telling you something that you can argue with, as it is from science themselves, and you are trying to say its wrong, i didnt get that option before, you dont get it now.


I posted an in-depth study link to where it is fairly conclusive that it does nothing, therefore I can also fairly confidently say that it is ineffective. 

Could you post the link to where the CDC says that Ivermectin is effective against COVID? Can't seem to find it anywhere.


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 11, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> I posted an in-depth study link to where it is fairly conclusive that it does nothing, therefore I can also fairly confidently say that it is ineffective.
> 
> Could you post the link to where the CDC says that Ivermectin is effective against COVID? Can't seem to find it anywhere.



https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/

man denial is an ugly look


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## titan_tim (Nov 11, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/
> 
> man denial is an ugly look


LOL! So you looked for a site that mentions the word Ivermectin and COVID, and you DON'T read what it says?! Here's a little snippit for you:

"The Panel *recommends against* the use of *ivermectin* for the treatment of COVID-19, except in clinical trials"

Also:
"The FDA first issued a warning in April 2020 that ivermectin intended for use in animals *should not be used* to treat COVID-19 in humans. This warning was updated and reiterated in 2021"

I could leave it to you in order to go through and read their rationale through the multiple studies, but the fact that you didn't even go as far as doing a 10 second scan of the information means that you probably won't bother.

I wouldn't say that denial is ugly, more pitiful. LOL!


----------



## BeniBel (Nov 11, 2022)

The hate is still strong it seems. People seem to forget some important facts:

- The vaccine is most countries was voluntarely. You can't hate or discriminate if something is voluntarely.

- If you have confidence your vaccin works, why hate others for not taking it? If they infect you, your vaccine should have protected you.

I did not get the vaccin, and was extremely limited in my actions. I could not travel, or enter restaurants, so I didn't contribute much to spreading the virus it would seem. However, I did get corona twice from people who were vaccinated. Not too bad, especially the last one.

I also hate the term "anti-vaxxer". I've had all my vaccinations prior, but didn't feel confident taking an expiremental shot for something that wasn't so bad for me. My mother got guilty tripped into taking it by her doctor, and passed away a few days after due to unknown cause (her medical file for the last week was locked, and her doctor refused to see me).

At the peak of corona, there was so much hate against those not taking the shot, an apalogy is indeed in place. Remember Macron from France telling he would make "the unvaccinated suffer"? How people were talking about putting those who weren't vaccinated in camps? Or how the unvaccinated kept the pandemic going, even if they weren't allowed to go anywhere. In the end, the vaccin was flawed at best, and the real issue were politicians screwing up and shifting the blame.

It did give one good insight: it showed how easily people are manipulated into hating others. We often wonder why so many people followed Hitler, and now we see why. Everyone still hating and blaming unvaccinated people for everything, would have supported the nazi's back in the day, I have no doubt about that.


----------



## mrdude (Nov 11, 2022)

BeniBel said:


> The hate is still strong it seems. People seem to forget some important facts:
> 
> - The vaccine is most countries was voluntarely. You can't hate or discriminate if something is voluntarely.


Apart from the vaccine not being tested properly and the people trying to coerce people into getting it by stopping them from going to places without a vaccine certificate etc, and the mask Nazi's stopping people from visiting loved ones..etc

My step dad had cancer and died during the lockdown and nobody could visit him. We had his funeral and only a few people were able to go to that and we were forced to wear masks and socially distance. Then my little sister had a brain tumour/operation and cancer at the same time and spent the last few months of her life being locked down with no visitors. My nephews wedding was also cancelled. So yeah, I won't forget all the crap that went on or the attitude of some people that tried to discriminate against others that didn't want to take an experimental vaccine.


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## Maximumbeans (Nov 11, 2022)

BeniBel said:


> It did give one good insight: it showed how easily people are manipulated into hating others. We often wonder why so many people followed Hitler, and now we see why. Everyone still hating and blaming unvaccinated people for everything, would have supported the nazi's back in the day, I have no doubt about that.


I don't condone making people suffer because they choose not to get the vaccine, but I don't think it's that simple either.

There is still a lot that remains unverified about COVID and how to treat it, prevent it, combat it, etc. This was even more true at its height, and people were understandably scared of something that was killing hundreds of thousands of people, hospitalising healthy individuals, and particularly preying on the most vulnerable. Given how easily COVID spreads, this was justified.

There were people electing not to get the vaccine for legitimate reasons such as how quickly it was released, or the fact that they'd already had COVID and it didn't really do much to them, which is fine.

Then you had people who didn't want to get the vaccine because:
"It contains mercury."
"It's going to give me or my offspring autism."
"It's going to let Bill Gates track my movements."
"It's going to disrupt my energy field."
"It's all part of a push by the WEF to shove society into a cashless society where they control my every move and—"

What people understandably saw were others who were shunning a vaccine that would help somewhat protect society for reasons that were unscientific, hearsay, or otherwise absolutely insane nonsense that they'd read on Facebook (or, god forbid, here).

Again, I don't condone hatred for those people, but it's not hard to understand the anger generated by people making selfish choices based on ignorance. Which, if you absolutely must invoke good old Godwin's Law, is a little Nazi-ish itself, no?


----------



## City (Nov 11, 2022)

I’m pro-vaccine but I found the various celebrations for no-vaxxers dying to be tasteless. Especially considering how these people, who wanted maskless people to die, seem to all support the 2020 riots where the pandemic was conveniently put on hold.


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## sombrerosonic (Nov 11, 2022)

City said:


> I’m pro-vaccine but I found the various celebrations for no-vaxxers dying to be tasteless. Especially considering how these people, who wanted maskless people to die, seem to all support the 2020 riots where the pandemic was conveniently put on hold.


People who do that are just asses


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 11, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> LOL! So you looked for a site that mentions the word Ivermectin and COVID, and you DON'T read what it says?! Here's a little snippit for you:
> 
> "The Panel *recommends against* the use of *ivermectin* for the treatment of COVID-19, except in clinical trials"
> 
> ...



it doesn't matter,  thats a governmental website, they listed it, obviously they have to say not to use it to convince you to get your miocarditis shots, but at least im not an anti government maga like you, respect the institution, oh and do yourself a favor, dont listen to some grifter doctor next time ok.


----------



## stanna (Nov 11, 2022)

All the vaxxed are fucked end of, leave them with it, drop the mic.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 11, 2022)

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but people do realize that this amnesty is not coming from the right. It's the left who have regrets about how they acted, treated others and their horrid policy decisions based on nothing but feelings.

I look forward to many more pleas for amnesty from the left over the next couple of years. Will it work? Doubtful. 

LOLGF, lefties. We tried to warn ya.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 12, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> it doesn't matter,  thats a governmental website, they listed it, obviously they have to say not to use it to convince you to get your miocarditis shots, but at least im not an anti government maga like you, respect the institution, oh and do yourself a favor, dont listen to some grifter doctor next time ok.


In one comment, you said to respect the institution, and then you go on to ignore the government website that said that it was unsafe to use. The same site that YOU POSTED YOURSELF! You say that I'm anti government, when once again, you go on to ignore the government website that YOU POSTED YOURSELF!

I asked for the CDC website that says that ivermectin is a legitimate treatment for COVID, and you failed miserably. It would be one thing to give me a site that was lying, but instead you gave a government site that outright refuted your claim. You can't fail much more than that.

Once again, denial is horribly pitiful. Seek help.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2022



TraderPatTX said:


> I don't know if it's been mentioned, but people do realize that this amnesty is not coming from the right. It's the left who have regrets about how they acted, treated others and their horrid policy decisions based on nothing but feelings.
> 
> I look forward to many more pleas for amnesty from the left over the next couple of years. Will it work? Doubtful.
> 
> LOLGF, lefties. We tried to warn ya.


Oh Pat, you think we have regrets for treating you like the morons that you were/are? No. Not in the slightest. 

There were no feelings, just statistics. People 65 and over were 4.5 times more likely to be hospitalized if they hadn't gotten the vaccine. So you see what happened? Your side killed off your own population of deniers, and helped multiple extremely close midterm elections go to the left! 

Thanks!


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> In one comment, you said to respect the institution, and then you go on to ignore the government website that said that it was unsafe to use. The same site that YOU POSTED YOURSELF! You say that I'm anti government, when once again, you go on to ignore the government website that YOU POSTED YOURSELF!
> 
> I asked for the CDC website that says that ivermectin is a legitimate treatment for COVID, and you failed miserably. It would be one thing to give me a site that was lying, but instead you gave a government site that outright refuted your claim. You can't fail much more than that.
> 
> ...



look its ok to be mad that you were wrong, you dont need to take it out on people.


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## titan_tim (Nov 12, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> look its ok to be mad that you were wrong, you dont need to take it out on people.


Ok, I guess I'll continue to watch the poor worm on the hook squirm. 

Please tell me, where was I wrong?


----------



## Dooz (Nov 12, 2022)

I wish that I didn't read this thread. I just get so depressed.

The irony of many of the COVID deniers is that so many of them are claiming to defend free democratic society and yet they support fascist politicians.

There's no point in arguing with the willfully ignorant, though. In fact, arguing with them will likely just strengthen their resolve, since those ideas usually revolve around a self-percieved victim mentality. You just gotta never concede that the deniers are wrong, don't be mean to them (COVID deniers are the biggest snowflakes), and offer evidence. They will ignore everything that you have to say because they are the only ones that will decide to stop being full of shit, so you just have to wait for them to decide to stop being assholes.

Edit: I wrote, "You just gotta never concede that the deniers are wrong," and I meant, "You just gotta never concede that the deniers are right."


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Ok, I guess I'll continue to watch the poor worm on the hook squirm.
> 
> Please tell me, where was I wrong?



you used some grifter science when i quoted from the gods themselves, that where you were wrong.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2022



Dooz said:


> I wish that I didn't read this thread. I just get so depressed.
> 
> The irony of many of the COVID deniers is that so many of them are claiming to defend free democratic society and yet they support fascist politicians.
> 
> There's no point in arguing with the willfully ignorant, though. In fact, arguing with them will likely just strengthen their resolve, since those ideas usually revolve around a self-percieved victim mentality. You just gotta never concede that the deniers are wrong, don't be mean to them (COVID deniers are the biggest snowflakes), and offer evidence. They will ignore everything that you have to say because they are the only ones that will decide to stop being full of shit, so you just have to wait for them to decide to stop being assholes.



i dont support a democractic society, i support a republic just for the record, and also who's the fascist? i dont remember that happening.


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## LainaGabranth (Nov 12, 2022)

SG854 said:


> among us




	Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2022



City said:


> I’m pro-vaccine but I found the various celebrations for no-vaxxers dying to be tasteless. Especially considering how these people, who wanted maskless people to die, seem to all support the 2020 riots where the pandemic was conveniently put on hold.


I supported the riots because they were actually for something more important than "WAAAH ME NO LIKE NEEDLE"


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## TraderPatTX (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Oh Pat, you think we have regrets for treating you like the morons that you were/are? No. Not in the slightest.
> 
> There were no feelings, just statistics. People 65 and over were 4.5 times more likely to be hospitalized if they hadn't gotten the vaccine. So you see what happened? Your side killed off your own population of deniers, and helped multiple extremely close midterm elections go to the left!
> 
> Thanks!


Statistics are just tortured numbers. You should have been following the peer reviewed science. And you should have regrets. You denied people from visiting their loved ones in the hospital. People weren't even allowed to have funerals for their elderly family members. Deaf people couldn't communicate because the left wanted everyone to wear masks, sick or not. Children now are doing horribly in school and are years behind where they should be. The left should be groveling for forgiveness, but you loved being a fascist so much, you just can't let go.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2022



Dooz said:


> I wish that I didn't read this thread. I just get so depressed.
> 
> The irony of many of the COVID deniers is that so many of them are claiming to defend free democratic society and yet they support fascist politicians.


The fascist politicians who kept their states open so the people could live in a free society as opposed to the free democratic politicians who got people fired, denied funerals (except for George Floyd), tried to force vaccine passports on us, forced us to wear ineffective masks and tried to put us in perpetual lockdown for years.


Dooz said:


> There's no point in arguing with the willfully ignorant, though. In fact, arguing with them will likely just strengthen their resolve, since those ideas usually revolve around a self-percieved victim mentality. You just gotta never concede that the deniers are wrong, don't be mean to them (COVID deniers are the biggest snowflakes), and offer evidence. They will ignore everything that you have to say because they are the only ones that will decide to stop being full of shit, so you just have to wait for them to decide to stop being assholes.


The only assholes here are people like you who think you can control other people.


Dooz said:


> Edit: I wrote, "You just gotta never concede that the deniers are wrong," and I meant, "You just gotta never concede that the deniers are right."


The Branch Covidians failed in implementing their religion of constant "vaccinations", mask wearing and social distancing. None of which is supported by science to be effective against any respiratory virus, much less Covid.


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## titan_tim (Nov 12, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> you used some grifter science when i quoted from the gods themselves, that where you were wrong.


Alright, we're going deeper into the hole that you're digging for yourself. 

So you quoted from the gods. Which gods? And what did they say about Ivermectin and it's effectiveness? 

At this point, I feel a little guilty. I'm more than likely arguing with a schizophrenic....


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## lolcatzuru (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Alright, we're going deeper into the hole that you're digging for yourself.
> 
> So you quoted from the gods. Which gods? And what did they say about Ivermectin and it's effectiveness?
> 
> At this point, I feel a little guilty. I'm more than likely arguing with a schizophrenic....



.... i already sent you the link. also wtf do you mean hole? also i see you are ablest, nice, add it to the list.


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## SG854 (Nov 12, 2022)

SG854 said:


> among us





LainaGabranth said:


> Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2022
> 
> 
> I supported the riots because they were actually for something more important than "WAAAH ME NO LIKE NEEDLE"


Vaccine is a bit sus


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## titan_tim (Nov 12, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> .... i already sent you the link. also wtf do you mean hole? also i see you are ablest, nice, add it to the list.


Your comment about quoting the gods made no sense, so I had to parse a meaning out of it.  You said "you used some grifter science when i quoted from the gods themselves", which I took to mean that I was using bad examples from science, whereas you were ordained by the gods to have holy knowledge unbeknownst to us mere mortals. Or were you being sarcastic about quoting from the gods (trying to say that the gods are the government)?

"Digging a hole for yourself" is a common English idiom where the person keeps saying/doing things which puts them into a worse situation. 

And if your idea of being an ableist is not wanting to help drive a schizophrenic person over the edge, then sure, I'll consider myself to be an ableist in that specific definition. That being said, if you ARE schizophrenic, then I would prefer to not contribute to the issues that you may already have.


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## RetroGen (Nov 12, 2022)

Pandemic amnesty might make sense for people who were unable to be vaccinated for valid medical reasons.  But for the misinformed, conspiracy theorists, science deniers, political activists, etc... who continue to put others at risk due to their selfishness and ignorance... unlikely.  This thread gives lessons on the power of right-wing propaganda and bad faith reasoning; the standard parroted talking points are like a caricature of Fox News and rife with scientific ignorance.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Statistics are just tortured numbers. You should have been following the peer reviewed science. And you should have regrets. You denied people from visiting their loved ones in the hospital. People weren't even allowed to have funerals for their elderly family members. Deaf people couldn't communicate because the left wanted everyone to wear masks, sick or not. Children now are doing horribly in school and are years behind where they should be. The left should be groveling for forgiveness, but you loved being a fascist so much, you just can't let go.


Sorry, no way to brush off common statistics in this case. All the numbers line up to a point where there is no wiggle room. People who didn't get the vaccine overwhelmingly had worse symptoms, and died at a much higher rate.

Oh, you want peer reviewed? How about these? 
https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...vaccinated-that-required-hospitalization.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9286242/
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0270485

Really not hard to notice all their conclusions are quite similar. Once again, vaccinated people, while still able to get infected, had much lower mortality or severe symptoms than the unvaccinated.

As for the horrible outcome to our daily lives, yes, it has suuuuuuuucked! Horribly! It's a pandemic! Welcome to the real world, where you need to rise to the occasion, and do whatever you can in order to do whatever you can, no matter how small. This whole thing was exacerbated and drawn-out unnecessarily by the weakest links of our society, yourself included of course.

Just a funny side question. When you sneeze or cough, do you put your hand over your mouth? With your logic, a hand really wouldn't make much of a difference. It's definitely less effective than a mask. So why bother? Shouldn't you just let that spit and phlegm fly? I'm sure the people sitting next to you will understand if you just sneeze openly across a table without doing the most basic thing your parents had hammered into your head as common politeness.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Sorry, no way to brush off common statistics in this case. All the numbers line up to a point where there is no wiggle room. People who didn't get the vaccine overwhelmingly had worse symptoms, and died at a much higher rate.
> 
> Oh, you want peer reviewed? How about these?
> https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...vaccinated-that-required-hospitalization.aspx
> ...


Weird that the flu numbers dropped to 1,700 deaths in 2021. That's never happened in human history. So all of your statistics are based on lies.

Everything we were told over the past few years has been a lie. Including this little gem that was just released. Covid does not cause myocarditis, which leaves only one thing that does cause myocarditis.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/


titan_tim said:


> As for the horrible outcome to our daily lives, yes, it has suuuuuuuucked! Horribly! It's a pandemic! Welcome to the real world, where you need to rise to the occasion, and do whatever you can in order to do whatever you can, no matter how small. This whole thing was exacerbated and drawn-out unnecessarily by the weakest links of our society, yourself included of course.


I'm the weakest link? The guy who didn't wear a mask, didn't really social distance, didn't get the jab and somehow never got sick this entire time? LOLGF


titan_tim said:


> Just a funny side question. When you sneeze or cough, do you put your hand over your mouth? With your logic, a hand really wouldn't make much of a difference. It's definitely less effective than a mask. So why bother? Shouldn't you just let that spit and phlegm fly? I'm sure the people sitting next to you will understand if you just sneeze openly across a table without doing the most basic thing your parents had hammered into your head as common politeness.


It's not polite to force people to wear face diapers. It's cult like.

I have an even funnier side question. Can you show me the peer reviewed research that shows that masks prevent viral spread? I've been asking this for years and nobody has been able to provide *peer reviewed* studies.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Weird that the flu numbers dropped to 1,700 deaths in 2021. That's never happened in human history. So all of your statistics are based on lies.


The death rate from the common flu can range between 10,000 - 40,000 per year, depending on how bad the strain is. 2021 saw only about 5,000 deaths (Not 1,700, but that's splitting hairs). Now, if you're attempting to claim that those flu deaths were rolled up into the COVID deaths, then go right ahead. It still doesn't account for a 1.1 million US deaths to date. 



TraderPatTX said:


> I'm the weakest link? The guy who didn't wear a mask, didn't really social distance, didn't get the jab and somehow never got sick this entire time?


You can walk around with a loaded gun with the safety off strapped to your side every day, and you may be able to go days or even years without shooting yourself in the leg. But make no mistake, doing so makes you an idiot and a social risk. 



TraderPatTX said:


> It's not polite to force people to wear face diapers. It's cult like.


You didn't answer the question. Why don't you tell your friends to not cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze? It does MUCH less than a mask. But you know the answer. It's the bare minimum of politeness. Just as a mask is. Absolute bare minimum, and you still whine like a bitch about it. History books will not be kind to people like you. 



TraderPatTX said:


> I have an even funnier side question. Can you show me the peer reviewed research that shows that masks prevent viral spread? I've been asking this for years and nobody has been able to provide *peer reviewed* studies


https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014564118
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg6296

And even ignoring both of these, it seems absolutely insane that people would ever question something so basic. The fact that people need to go through these tests in order to prove something that we've just known for years is insane. If it weren't the case, doctors would go into surgery without masks. They don't wear them for fashion reasons. They hate those things, but it's still necessary and effective.


----------



## stanna (Nov 12, 2022)

I've had covid 4 times now, the worst was one night with a fever, it ain't nothing, why would I need a vaccine for a bit of a sniffle ?.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Your comment about quoting the gods made no sense, so I had to parse a meaning out of it.  You said "you used some grifter science when i quoted from the gods themselves", which I took to mean that I was using bad examples from science, whereas you were ordained by the gods to have holy knowledge unbeknownst to us mere mortals. Or were you being sarcastic about quoting from the gods (trying to say that the gods are the government)?
> 
> "Digging a hole for yourself" is a common English idiom where the person keeps saying/doing things which puts them into a worse situation.
> 
> And if your idea of being an ableist is not wanting to help drive a schizophrenic person over the edge, then sure, I'll consider myself to be an ableist in that specific definition. That being said, if you ARE schizophrenic, then I would prefer to not contribute to the issues that you may already have.



how could be contributing to an issue i may or may not already have? that doesnt even make sense. I understand what the phrase means, but that implies that theres a social value to speech, and there isnt because i dont care what you think.  The government are absolutely gods, thats why you listen to them and CNN without ever questioning. they would never lie, rig elections or mandatorize a shot that they never tested for something that didnt really need one to begin with on your dime. Some grifter scientist trying to get rich of the idea of saying ivermectin doesnt work when obviously a goverment agency has it on their site tells me everything i need to know.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 12, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> The death rate from the common flu can range between 10,000 - 40,000 per year, depending on how bad the strain is. 2021 saw only about 5,000 deaths (Not 1,700, but that's splitting hairs). Now, if you're attempting to claim that those flu deaths were rolled up into the COVID deaths, then go right ahead. It still doesn't account for a 1.1 million US deaths to date.


Yes it does. The PCR test cannot tell the difference between Covid, the flu and the common cold.


titan_tim said:


> You can walk around with a loaded gun with the safety off strapped to your side every day, and you may be able to go days or even years without shooting yourself in the leg. But make no mistake, doing so makes you an idiot and a social risk.


You know nothing about respiratory viruses and guns. Why does that not surprise me?


titan_tim said:


> You didn't answer the question. Why don't you tell your friends to not cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze? It does MUCH less than a mask. But you know the answer. It's the bare minimum of politeness. Just as a mask is. Absolute bare minimum, and you still whine like a bitch about it. History books will not be kind to people like you.


The same reason why I don't want people spitting in my food. People do not cover their cough or sneeze to protect others from getting sick. The history books are going to compare the Branch Covidians to the people of Jonestown.


titan_tim said:


> https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014564118
> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg6296
> 
> And even ignoring both of these, it seems absolutely insane that people would ever question something so basic. The fact that people need to go through these tests in order to prove something that we've just known for years is insane. If it weren't the case, doctors would go into surgery without masks. They don't wear them for fashion reasons. They hate those things, but it's still necessary and effective.


Doctors and nurses wear masks in operation rooms to prevent spreading bacteria. I know this because my wife was a nurse. A respiratory virus could enter the body through an incision in the leg and the person would not get sick. It has to enter through the lungs, hence why they are called respiratory viruses. OMG man, do you know anything at all? Your smugness about everything you've said kills me though.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 13, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> how could be contributing to an issue i may or may not already have? that doesnt even make sense.


Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. You see, schizophrenia has things called episodes, which can be brought on through stress or heavy emotion. Those people would do well to not be on sites like this, which could bring on an episode. 



lolcatzuru said:


> I understand what the phrase means, but that implies that theres a social value to speech, and there isnt because i dont care what you think.


Your feelings on what other people think has no influence on the invalidity of all the BS you spew. 



lolcatzuru said:


> The government are absolutely gods, thats why you listen to them and CNN without ever questioning


So you're saying ALL governments, scientists, pharmaceutical companies, media companies, doctors, etc came together to make a giant lie about a virus while it kills off their population. All governments can't even agree on the most basic things, but THIS one? Sure! A conspiracy starts falling apart the more moving parts are required to keep it going. 



TraderPatTX said:


> Yes it does. The PCR test cannot tell the difference between Covid, the flu and the common cold.


I see you're now relying on baseless assertions now. Let's see if you can hold yourself to the same standards you ask for in others and show me the peer reviewed research that backs up such an insane claim. I doubt you can.



TraderPatTX said:


> You know nothing about respiratory viruses and guns. Why does that not surprise me?


Sorry, I (luckily) live in Japan, so my gun knowledge doesn't need to be as high as a Texan (Great job in Uvalde btw! What a sh--hole country....) But last I checked, not having the safety on is kind of a safety hazard. Unless you have a conspiracy theory against that as well?



TraderPatTX said:


> The history books are going to compare the Branch Covidians to the people of Jonestown.


That's quite the technicolor dream you have there! We already know that the Spanish flu of 1918 had mask deniers/whiners, and they were remembered in a poor light as well. History repeats itself.



TraderPatTX said:


> Doctors and nurses wear masks in operation rooms to prevent spreading bacteria. I know this because my wife was a nurse.


Oh? Is the study by PNAS not to your liking? Just going to ignore it like the annoyance it is to your feelings? Who would have thought that putting something over your mouth can help stop the spread of bacterial viruses AND respiratory viruses! We're in a wonderous age! 

Btw, I haven't ignored your previous comment on myocarditis. I'll get to that soon enough, but looking at the results, it doesn't look good for your point.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 13, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. You see, schizophrenia has things called episodes, which can be brought on through stress or heavy emotion. Those people would do well to not be on sites like this, which could bring on an episode.
> 
> 
> Your feelings on what other people think has no influence on the invalidity of all the BS you spew.
> ...



most of the responses to me were incoherent nonsense but onto the last point, yes to most of it except the deaths part, do you have death certificates for them? or any kind of receipts other than from the people who told you this happened?


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 13, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> most of the responses to me were incoherent nonsense but onto the last point, yes to most of it except the deaths part, do you have death certificates for them? or any kind of receipts other than from the people who told you this happened?


I know, I know, reading makes you tired. Go get some sleep.

As for the death certificates, I have them all here, alphabetized, and time stamped. Where should I send them to? Ugh....
Seriously, what type of a bad faith argument is that?! If I were to have a giant stack of death certificates in PDF form in a google drive, your eyes would just glaze over at the sheer number of them, and give up, while not changing your beliefs one single bit. 

But fear not! I have a solution to this. If you're TRULY interested in the truth of the matter, there's a simple thing you can do. Want to know?

-Go to your largest general hospital in your area
-Go to the ICU
-Talk to a secretary or a nurse and tell them sincerely that you wish to hear about all the COVID patients that they've been taking care of, because you don't believe they exist. 

I'm sure they'll take you on a nice tour of the area and show you the people who are unconscious in artificial respirators. They can show you the death certificates, and show you the people who probably won't be making it out alive that day. 

That being said, you're arguing in bad faith, so I'm 99.9999% sure that you'll never even bother. You can't even entertain the idea that your beliefs are based on lies/ignorance.


----------



## mrgone (Nov 13, 2022)

i am vaxxed + once boosted, as are my parents (both nearly 80)

i have two anti-vaxx-"groups" in my so called social group:
one friend (male) from school who i am witness to his marriage
he was an early critic to the law aspect of the pandemic in germany 
i guess both him, wife and 2 children are not vaxxed

second friend (female) is anti-vaxx because she works at the german tuev sued and argued: "i see what gets put into vaccinations - no thanks"
i was planned to be witness at her marriage, too 

contact dried down to once of twice per year, at best

no more marriage witness applications!


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 13, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> I see you're now relying on baseless assertions now. Let's see if you can hold yourself to the same standards you ask for in others and show me the peer reviewed research that backs up such an insane claim. I doubt you can.


I wouldn't necessarily call the inventor of the PCR test a baseless assertion.

https://fcpp.org/2021/02/27/pcr-test-is-flimsy-say-inventor-and-courts/


titan_tim said:


> Sorry, I (luckily) live in Japan, so my gun knowledge doesn't need to be as high as a Texan (Great job in Uvalde btw! What a sh--hole country....) But last I checked, not having the safety on is kind of a safety hazard. Unless you have a conspiracy theory against that as well?


Former PM Abe was shot dead in the street in Japan.

No serious gun owner walks around with the safety off. Even in the military, we were taught to always have the safety on unless the weapon is being used.


titan_tim said:


> That's quite the technicolor dream you have there! We already know that the Spanish flu of 1918 had mask deniers/whiners, and they were remembered in a poor light as well. History repeats itself.


Masks are ineffective because people are not trained on how to use them and people use the wrong types of material. Masks used in operating rooms are sterilized and they are worn in a sterilized environment. People's pockets and purses are not sterilized and neither is the public environment. Mask wearing was instituted so the left could feel good. The same with social distancing guidelines.

https://update.lib.berkeley.edu/202...mic-and-the-meaning-of-layered-interventions/


titan_tim said:


> Oh? Is the study by PNAS not to your liking? Just going to ignore it like the annoyance it is to your feelings? Who would have thought that putting something over your mouth can help stop the spread of bacterial viruses AND respiratory viruses! We're in a wonderous age!


WTF is a bacterial virus? LOL! You are just making up words now. Even surgical masks do not prevent viral spread. They help prevent bacterial spread because bacteria are many times larger than viruses. Hence why virologists wear those self contained suits while studying viruses.


titan_tim said:


> Btw, I haven't ignored your previous comment on myocarditis. I'll get to that soon enough, but looking at the results, it doesn't look good for your point.


https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...tion-may-be-higher-after-moderna-pfizer-covid


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 14, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I wouldn't necessarily call the inventor of the PCR test a baseless assertion.


The inventor never said the current PCR tests in the market are mistaking the flu or common colds as COVID. In that link, he said basically that the more cycles you put into the test, the more of a chance it'll find what it was meant to find, even if it's miniscule. The tests are looking for a specific signature, and don't make mistakes with other viruses. Please refrain from lying, as it it fairly easy to point out. On the flip-side, if you don't understand the articles you put out, please refrain from showing your ignorance.

Also, you know what could help your case for saying that a PCR could detect the flu or cold instead of COVID? A peer reviewed study.  The thing that you required from me for masks, and then ignored. Yet another bad faith actor.



TraderPatTX said:


> Former PM Abe was shot dead in the street in Japan.


Oh my god!!! Let's all run like lemming Americans to the gun stores so that we can protect ourselves from the bad guy with guns (That they had to put together with tubes). Thank you gun loving Texan! You've saved an entire country today by showing them the error in their ways! LOLGF!



TraderPatTX said:


> No serious gun owner walks around with the safety off. Even in the military, we were taught to always have the safety on unless the weapon is being used.


Wait.... so you're saying that people COULD go outside with the safety off, but they'd have to be a non-serious gun owner (an idiot). Great, I seems my comparison was fairly accurate! Glad I could get that across.



TraderPatTX said:


> Masks are ineffective because people are not trained on how to use them and people use the wrong types of material.


So your excuse now for not wanting to wear a mask is because OTHER people don't know how to use them? Are you counting yourself in that group of dinguses who can't do something so basic? If you want to claim ignorance, I won't try to refute you.



TraderPatTX said:


> WTF is a bacterial virus?


Meant to say bacterial infection, but came out wrong. If this dingus can get away with all these flubs, then I can get a pass this time  

For the myocarditis point, I looked over the link that you sent earlier, and it concludes that there isn't an increase in cases for people who had COVID vs people who have never had it. Great news! Then you inferred that an increase was due to the vaccine. Let's just go down to another study in that same site:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35749115/

Here's the main takeaway:
"Among 19 740 741 doses of mRNA vaccines administered, there were 297 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis meeting the inclusion criteria"

So, 0.000015%.  Those are some good odds! That being said, the first study was done in Israel and the 2nd was in Canada, so the rates can be different due to climate, food, etc.

Now, let's put a group of 19 million anti-vaxers through COVID and see what the odds of them surviving are. What's that? We already have the rate of death for vaccinated and not vaccinated!?
Unvaxed die at a rate of 1.7 per 100,000, whereas vaccinated die at a rate of 0.2 per 100,000 people. Boosted people die at an even lower rate of 0.1 per 100,000.

So if myocarditis is your main fear, then you have your priorities a little out of sync. Although you'll probably just claim those are tortured numbers instead of the reality of the situation.


----------



## Jayro (Nov 14, 2022)

Nah, I won't forget their COVID-denying shenanigans. Fuck 'em.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 14, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> The inventor never said the current PCR tests in the market are mistaking the flu or common colds as COVID. In that link, he said basically that the more cycles you put into the test, the more of a chance it'll find what it was meant to find, even if it's miniscule. The tests are looking for a specific signature, and don't make mistakes with other viruses. Please refrain from lying, as it it fairly easy to point out. On the flip-side, if you don't understand the articles you put out, please refrain from showing your ignorance.
> 
> Also, you know what could help your case for saying that a PCR could detect the flu or cold instead of COVID? A peer reviewed study.  The thing that you required from me for masks, and then ignored. Yet another bad faith actor.


So weird that they decided to lower the number of cycles once Resident Vegetable took office. Not to mention the new Covid test that can tell the difference between Covid and the flu.


titan_tim said:


> Oh my god!!! Let's all run like lemming Americans to the gun stores so that we can protect ourselves from the bad guy with guns (That they had to put together with tubes). Thank you gun loving Texan! You've saved an entire country today by showing them the error in their ways! LOLGF!


I'd rather have a firearm and not need it than to not have one and need it. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.


titan_tim said:


> Wait.... so you're saying that people COULD go outside with the safety off, but they'd have to be a non-serious gun owner (an idiot). Great, I seems my comparison was fairly accurate! Glad I could get that across.





titan_tim said:


> So your excuse now for not wanting to wear a mask is because OTHER people don't know how to use them? Are you counting yourself in that group of dinguses who can't do something so basic? If you want to claim ignorance, I won't try to refute you.


Average people are not trained on how to care or wear a mask. I chose not to wear one because I knew it was worthless. And since I never got Covid or the flu, I was right.


titan_tim said:


> Meant to say bacterial infection, but came out wrong. If this dingus can get away with all these flubs, then I can get a pass this time



Ok Fetterman.


titan_tim said:


> For the myocarditis point, I looked over the link that you sent earlier, and it concludes that there isn't an increase in cases for people who had COVID vs people who have never had it. Great news! Then you inferred that an increase was due to the vaccine. Let's just go down to another study in that same site:
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35749115/
> 
> Here's the main takeaway:
> ...


This isn't a peer reviewed study with a control group. It's data is based on what was reported instead of what was observed. Maybe if you spent less time trying to insult me and more time reading, you'd have a better understanding of the world around you.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 14, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> So weird that they decided to lower the number of cycles once Resident Vegetable took office. Not to mention the new Covid test that can tell the difference between Covid and the flu.


Once again, there was never a PCR test that can't tell the difference between COVID and the flu. Quit lying. 



TraderPatTX said:


> I'd rather have a firearm and not need it than to not have one and need it. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.


Let me check how many US gun homicides there were last year.... 20,000!??!!? WOW!  So screw those people, Pat here needs a false sense of security no matter what the toll on life may be. No wonder the US is going down the drain.



TraderPatTX said:


> Average people are not trained on how to care or wear a mask. I chose not to wear one because I knew it was worthless. And since I never got Covid or the flu, I was right.


Seems like you once again ignore the studies I posted. You say that masks are worthless, but at this point it just means  either:
1. You don't know how to put on a mask.
2. You're too cheap to buy a decent one.
3. All of the above.

BTW, you weren't right because you haven't gotten COVID yet, but for that you can refer back to my comparison to walking around with a gun and the safety off. Tick-tock Tick-tock.



TraderPatTX said:


> This isn't a peer reviewed study with a control group. It's data is based on what was reported instead of what was observed.


Technically, you only asked for a peer reviewed study for masks, so I'm in the clear for using an observational study this time. That being said, dealing with a population of 19 million doesn't really help your case even if cases are more elevated than 297 cases in reality. 

If we put those 19 million people through vaccines, and a tiny portion of them develop myocarditis, it's still a better mortality outcome than 19 million unvaccinated people getting COVID.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 14, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> I know, I know, reading makes you tired. Go get some sleep.
> 
> As for the death certificates, I have them all here, alphabetized, and time stamped. Where should I send them to? Ugh....
> Seriously, what type of a bad faith argument is that?! If I were to have a giant stack of death certificates in PDF form in a google drive, your eyes would just glaze over at the sheer number of them, and give up, while not changing your beliefs one single bit.
> ...



well even if i wanted to, i dont have the clearance for that. that being said yea if you can get me a PDF ill sign off.


----------



## smilodon (Nov 14, 2022)

At this point, I am sad that Covid wasn't more lethal. Then we would have been able to give respect to antivax by giving them a proper funeral.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 14, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well even if i wanted to


Like I said, you're a bad faith actor. You make assertions and lies, but when presented with an easy way to get confirmation, you make excuses to weasel out of it. 

You can get confirmation without "clearance". It's not fort Knox. I know someone who is a respiratory therapists that LOVES to help people like you see the truth. He's told me so many stories about people on their death bed clinging to the lie that they weren't dying of covid. Really pitiful stuff. For the people put into induced comas when they're in the artificial respirators, they usually don't live through it.  Even if they were to pull through, the recovery is very long and painful.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 14, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Like I said, you're a bad faith actor. You make assertions and lies, but when presented with an easy way to get confirmation, you make excuses to weasel out of it.
> 
> You can get confirmation without "clearance". It's not fort Knox. I know someone who is a respiratory therapists that LOVES to help people like you see the truth. He's told me so many stories about people on their death bed clinging to the lie that they weren't dying of covid. Really pitiful stuff. For the people put into induced comas when they're in the artificial respirators, they usually don't live through it.  Even if they were to pull through, the recovery is very long and painful.



have you ever heard of the term, bias?


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 15, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> have you ever heard of the term, bias?


Oh believe me, I know that word very well. It's staring me right in my face as I type. 

But luckily, a hospital doesn't have the convenience of bias. They have to deal with what they're given as it comes, regardless of how they feel. 

But as you said, "Even if I wanted to", meaning you don't want to see evidence. You prefer to not easily confirm that your assertions are wrong, therefore protecting your bias.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Once again, there was never a PCR test that can't tell the difference between COVID and the flu. Quit lying.


LOL


titan_tim said:


> Let me check how many US gun homicides there were last year.... 20,000!??!!? WOW!  So screw those people, Pat here needs a false sense of security no matter what the toll on life may be. No wonder the US is going down the drain.


Guns prevent 2.5 million violent crimes a year in the U.S. Guess those people should have just died instead.


titan_tim said:


> Seems like you once again ignore the studies I posted. You say that masks are worthless, but at this point it just means  either:
> 1. You don't know how to put on a mask.
> 2. You're too cheap to buy a decent one.
> 3. All of the above.


I'd love to know where you stored your mask and how did you keep it sterile all day out in public.


titan_tim said:


> BTW, you weren't right because you haven't gotten COVID yet, but for that you can refer back to my comparison to walking around with a gun and the safety off. Tick-tock Tick-tock.


You can shove that clock in a dark place. I protect myself with vitamins, sunshine and regular exercise. Everything the FDA and CDC did not recommend you do.


titan_tim said:


> Technically, you only asked for a peer reviewed study for masks, so I'm in the clear for using an observational study this time. That being said, dealing with a population of 19 million doesn't really help your case even if cases are more elevated than 297 cases in reality.
> 
> If we put those 19 million people through vaccines, and a tiny portion of them develop myocarditis, it's still a better mortality outcome than 19 million unvaccinated people getting COVID.


Strange that I only hear of the jabbed getting Covid over and over and over again. Including the Resident in the White House.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 15, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> LOL


The articles you posted yourself didn't say that. So Yes, "LOL". 



TraderPatTX said:


> Guns prevent 2.5 million violent crimes a year in the U.S. Guess those people should have just died instead.


Wasn't it you that was complaining about data from what is reported? There are more than enough peer reviewed studies that more guns equates to more gun violence. Crime prevention with guns is irrelevant to you. If crime was down to the lowest levels in US history, you'd still push for guns. 

Hell, I'll even go ahead and defend your need to have a gun. Your country is screwed, so stock up! Australia was able to ban all guns, and it's worked out amazingly for them. But the US? Not a chance in hell they're going to take 350 million guns away from you people. It's too ingrained in your fear of your neighbors.

I've been over here for about 16 years now, and have NEVER wished I had a gun to protect myself. I can walk down the most "dangerous" streets, and not feel even an iota of fear. You can blame it on culture, or a stronger middle class, or whatever. It still doesn't help defend a country that is in dire need of STRICT gun reform, but is too stubborn to do it.



TraderPatTX said:


> I'd love to know where you stored your mask and how did you keep it sterile all day out in public.


I'm sure you would. Just like putting your hand in front of your mouth before a sneeze, it's better than nothing. Minimum effort is better than denying basic truths.



TraderPatTX said:


> You can shove that clock in a dark place. I protect myself with vitamins, sunshine and regular exercise. Everything the FDA and CDC did not recommend you do.


Will do! It's now firmly lodged inside your colon. Now you'll be able to hear it wherever you go, like the alligator that chases Captain Hook.



TraderPatTX said:


> Strange that I only hear of the jabbed getting Covid over and over and over again. Including the Resident in the White House.


And yet, they're still alive. I guess the people who aren't vaccinated just seem to die off for some reason. The vast majority of people out there are vaccinated, therefore that's the majority of people that you'll hear getting it. It doesn't mean that they unvaccinated aren't getting it as well. 

I said this to the other dingus on here. If you REALLY want to challenge your bias, then go to the closest ICU in the general hospital. Talk to the nurses there and ask them the percentage of people who unvaccinated and are clinging to life from COVID. Ask about death rates of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. They'll gladly help you out, as long as you are sincere in furthering your knowledge.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> The articles you posted yourself didn't say that. So Yes, "LOL".
> 
> 
> Wasn't it you that was complaining about data from what is reported? There are more than enough peer reviewed studies that more guns equates to more gun violence. Crime prevention with guns is irrelevant to you. If crime was down to the lowest levels in US history, you'd still push for guns.
> ...


Australia doesn't have a 2nd Amendment, which is why their government was able to round them up and put them in Covid camps.


titan_tim said:


> I've been over here for about 16 years now, and have NEVER wished I had a gun to protect myself. I can walk down the most "dangerous" streets, and not feel even an iota of fear.


Good for you. You wanna cookie?


titan_tim said:


> You can blame it on culture, or a stronger middle class, or whatever. It still doesn't help defend a country that is in dire need of STRICT gun reform, but is too stubborn to do it.


Pass a constitutional amendment and you can get all the gun reform you want. Until then, STFU.


titan_tim said:


> I'm sure you would. Just like putting your hand in front of your mouth before a sneeze, it's better than nothing. Minimum effort is better than denying basic truths.


Just admit that you take your mask out of your dirty pocket and put it on your face and rebreathe your stank ass breath all day.


titan_tim said:


> Will do! It's now firmly lodged inside your colon. Now you'll be able to hear it wherever you go, like the alligator that chases Captain Hook.
> 
> 
> And yet, they're still alive. I guess the people who aren't vaccinated just seem to die off for some reason. The vast majority of people out there are vaccinated, therefore that's the majority of people that you'll hear getting it. It doesn't mean that they unvaccinated aren't getting it as well.


People are not getting boosted anymore.


titan_tim said:


> I said this to the other dingus on here. If you REALLY want to challenge your bias, then go to the closest ICU in the general hospital. Talk to the nurses there and ask them the percentage of people who unvaccinated and are clinging to life from COVID. Ask about death rates of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. They'll gladly help you out, as long as you are sincere in furthering your knowledge.


I just had a valve repair so I spent and entire week talking to nurses. They all admitted that masks outside of sterile operating rooms are worthless and they said there were more jabbed people than unjabbed in the hospital. And this was at Cleveland Clinic.


----------



## titan_tim (Nov 15, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Australia doesn't have a 2nd Amendment, which is why their government was able to round them up and put them in Covid camps.


Still clinging to an outdated amendment that couldn't see the future. Very forward thinking. I've had this conversation before about it being " a well regulated militia" and not 'every dingleberry in the street can and should have a gun', but that just seems to go in one ear and out the other with excuses. 



TraderPatTX said:


> Good for you. You wanna cookie?


Finally a good idea! I can go to the convenience store to get some, and not worry anyone is carrying. Although it's lunch, so I'll probably get some tsukemen noodles (yum). 



TraderPatTX said:


> Pass a constitutional amendment and you can get all the gun reform you want. Until then, STFU.


You're telling me to? Sorry, not my place. I can just point out the rot. Although if that day were to ever come, you'd be here whining without a doubt.



TraderPatTX said:


> I just had a valve repair so I spent and entire week talking to nurses. They all admitted that masks outside of sterile operating rooms are worthless and they said there were more jabbed people than unjabbed in the hospital. And this was at Cleveland Clinic.


Anecdotal evidence at best, but whatever.  Although statistically when the vast majority in the country are vaccinated, the total number actually in the hospital would be vaccinated. I care more about the ratio of people who are either in the ICU or have died due to the virus, and their vaccinated status. 

We can look at the death statistics in Japan compared to the US as well. The us is over 1.1 million deaths, and Japan is around 47,000. In Japan, EVERYONE wears a mask. Indoor, outdoor, it doesn't matter. Do you believe that their dirty unsanitized masks had anything to do with the lower death rate?  You can say that the US over reported deaths, and Japan under reported. But that's still a HUGE gap to account for.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Still clinging to an outdated amendment that couldn't see the future. Very forward thinking. I've had this conversation before about it being " a well regulated militia" and not 'every dingleberry in the street can and should have a gun', but that just seems to go in one ear and out the other with excuses.


So the 1st amendment is outdated. Interesting. You also don't understand commas. Also interesting.


titan_tim said:


> Finally a good idea! I can go to the convenience store to get some, and not worry anyone is carrying. Although it's lunch, so I'll probably get some tsukemen noodles (yum).
> 
> 
> You're telling me to? Sorry, not my place. I can just point out the rot. Although if that day were to ever come, you'd be here whining without a doubt.


Keep whining about it then. I don't care.


titan_tim said:


> Anecdotal evidence at best, but whatever.  Although statistically when the vast majority in the country are vaccinated, the total number actually in the hospital would be vaccinated. I care more about the ratio of people who are either in the ICU or have died due to the virus, and their vaccinated status.


I did exactly what you told me to do and now you call it anecdotal. Why did you want me to talk to nurses in the first place?


titan_tim said:


> We can look at the death statistics in Japan compared to the US as well. The us is over 1.1 million deaths, and Japan is around 47,000. In Japan, EVERYONE wears a mask. Indoor, outdoor, it doesn't matter. Do you believe that their dirty unsanitized masks had anything to do with the lower death rate?  You can say that the US over reported deaths, and Japan under reported. But that's still a HUGE gap to account for.


You'd have to prove that the masks in Japan actually work. What would the deaths be if the Japanese didn't wear masks? Do you know? I doubt it.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Oh believe me, I know that word very well. It's staring me right in my face as I type.
> 
> But luckily, a hospital doesn't have the convenience of bias. They have to deal with what they're given as it comes, regardless of how they feel.
> 
> But as you said, "Even if I wanted to", meaning you don't want to see evidence. You prefer to not easily confirm that your assertions are wrong, therefore protecting your bias.



hospitals.... dont have bias?

also i would appreciate if you didnt lie about me, thanks.


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## titan_tim (Nov 15, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> So the 1st amendment is outdated. Interesting. You also don't understand commas. Also interesting.


Well that's quite the non sequitur. Speech doesn't change over time, technology does. 



TraderPatTX said:


> Keep whining about it then. I don't care.


Fine, continue to live being willfully obtuse.



TraderPatTX said:


> I did exactly what you told me to do and now you call it anecdotal. Why did you want me to talk to nurses in the first place?


You didn't do what I asked. I asked you to talk to a nurse in order to find out about the ICU to see how many people in critical condition were unvaxed and compare to how many are vaxed in the same situation. People having the virus in a hospital are to be expected, and since the vast majority are vaccinated, then more so. If there are 30 people ventilators, and the majority of them are unvaxed, that's not a good sign.



TraderPatTX said:


> You'd have to prove that the masks in Japan actually work. What would the deaths be if the Japanese didn't wear masks? Do you know? I doubt it.


As I've already given you two studies in the past comments that masks work for COVID prevention, I believe the burden of proof that they don't work is more on you. 

As for what would the deaths be like if the Japanese didn't wear masks, that's impossible to say. But to use that as an argument to say something is true/false is using the "argument from ignorance" fallacy. All we can do is look at the data we have now, and infer what we can from that. 

There is also the fact that Americans have a MUCH higher obesity level that most countries, and dwarfs the number in Japan. Although the top three country deaths are US, Brazil, and India. India makes sense since their population is so huge. Brazil, could be because their president was so gung-ho about denying COVID entirely. 

Who knows, maybe sushi or ramen has anti-covid properties.


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## tabzer (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Who knows, maybe sushi or ramen has anti-covid properties.



Saying "gochisosamadeshita" after a meal does.  Ramen is from China.

Anyway, I remain skeptical of all things statistics, since cooking the books is a hallmark of capitalism, and science is deployed in the direction of desired outcomes of those who finance it.

I've heard stories of people dying from COVID.  But I don't know anyone.  It could be all smoke and mirrors afaik.  Even if I did, I would sooner question the hospitals method in administrating death.  They are the authority of that after all.


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## CommanderCool (Nov 15, 2022)

Is TraderPatTX shitting up another thread with Fox News/OAN talking points again?


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## TraderPatTX (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Well that's quite the non sequitur. Speech doesn't change over time, technology does.


Actually speech does change over time. We do not often say thou or thy in normal conversation. And the Founders knew technology changed. There were semi-automatic rifles during their time.


titan_tim said:


> Fine, continue to live being willfully obtuse.


Cry more.


titan_tim said:


> You didn't do what I asked. I asked you to talk to a nurse in order to find out about the ICU to see how many people in critical condition were unvaxed and compare to how many are vaxed in the same situation. People having the virus in a hospital are to be expected, and since the vast majority are vaccinated, then more so. If there are 30 people ventilators, and the majority of them are unvaxed, that's not a good sign.


I talked to many nurses while I was in the ICU. They all said the majority of people were jabbed. Sorry if that doesn't line up with your talking points. My advice, get new talking points.


titan_tim said:


> As I've already given you two studies in the past comments that masks work for COVID prevention, I believe the burden of proof that they don't work is more on you.


Neither one of them were peer reviewed. And it is not my responsibility to prove a negative. If you knew how to debate, you'd know that.


titan_tim said:


> As for what would the deaths be like if the Japanese didn't wear masks, that's impossible to say. But to use that as an argument to say something is true/false is using the "argument from ignorance" fallacy. All we can do is look at the data we have now, and infer what we can from that.


You telling me you can't prove a negative? I did Nazi that coming.


titan_tim said:


> There is also the fact that Americans have a MUCH higher obesity level that most countries, and dwarfs the number in Japan. Although the top three country deaths are US, Brazil, and India. India makes sense since their population is so huge. Brazil, could be because their president was so gung-ho about denying COVID entirely.


And now you are fat shaming.


titan_tim said:


> Who knows, maybe sushi or ramen has anti-covid properties.


Nope. Only the jabs work. Nothing else should be studied at all. You are anti-science for even suggesting something else could possibly work against Covid.


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## CommanderCool (Nov 15, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Actually speech does change over time. We do not often say thou or thy in normal conversation. And the Founders knew technology changed. There were semi-automatic rifles during their time.
> 
> Cry more.
> 
> ...



Hey bro since you won't answer in the other thread, can you answer me in this one?  Your talking points are really boring and I was just thinking that since everyone arguing with you is like arguing against a brick wall that gained sentience and has the mental capacity of a Fox News/OAN/Breitbart enthusiast that you can at least tell me one shitting habit of one Republican congressman.

It's not hard, bro.  Just answer the question.


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## AlexMCS (Nov 15, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> There is also the fact that Americans have a MUCH higher obesity level that most countries, and dwarfs the number in Japan. Although the top three country deaths are US, *Brazil*, and India. India makes sense since their population is so huge. *Brazil, could be because their president was so gung-ho about denying COVID entirely*



I can tell you what happened here:
- Unprepared health infrastructure -  doctors, beds etc. The mother of a friend died because she got her lungs pierced thrice during the intubation process by the oh-so-competent doctors, by their own admission. I got a very poor reception as well when I had to go to the hospital for oxygen.

- Assigning random death causes to CoViD-19. If you died in a hospital, the Cause of Death would be stated as CoViD-19 in the report, 60% of the time, no questions asked. "Motorcycle accident -> get admitted -> dies from the consequences of the accident. Oh, the dude had -SARS-CoV-2 in his bloodstream! (from the freaking hospital to boot: death from Covid)". More CoViD deaths = more funds given to the hospital to fight it (in theory. In practice it was stolen). I personally know of some cases.

- Finally, the denial of the most basic social distancing measures by some deniers, which helped the virus spread.

This whole disease, assuming the contagion conditions are as expected, is almost fully preventable with a 45 day total lockdown, which was never followed, nowhere in the world. Governments were terrible in their lockdown handling.


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## titan_tim (Nov 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Saying "gochisosamadeshita" after a meal does.  Ramen is from China.


I always felt like that was a magic incantation!  Correct, ramen is from China. Ra means to stretch, and men is noodles (My Chinese coworker loves to tell me that). But it's still a staple food in Japan, and eaten much more often than sushi.


tabzer said:


> Anyway, I remain skeptical of all things statistics, since cooking the books is a hallmark of capitalism, and science is deployed in the direction of desired outcomes of those who finance it.
> 
> I've heard stories of people dying from COVID. But I don't know anyone. It could be all smoke and mirrors afaik. Even if I did, I would sooner question the hospitals method in administrating death. They are the authority of that after all.


Yeah, in this day and age, it's hard to trust anything anymore. But I like to put my faith in people who get into the medical field to help others. 

And luckily, I haven't had anyone die from COVID, but I have a cousin who works as a respiratory therapist. The stories he's told me I have to trust. It's anecdotal for you, but first hand knowledge for me. Wish I could give more.



AlexMCS said:


> - Unprepared health infrastructure - doctors, beds etc. The mother of a friend died because she got her lungs pierced thrice during the intubation process by the oh-so-competent doctors, by their own admission. I got a very poor reception as well when I had to go to the hospital for oxygen.


That sucks, seriously. From what I've heard, the US is severely understaffed for nurses and people are stretched to the brink. That'll also cause people to be pushed through nursing/medical school to fill the gaps. 



AlexMCS said:


> - Finally, the denial of the most basic social distancing measures by some deniers, which helped the virus spread.
> 
> This whole disease, assuming the contagion conditions are as expected, is almost fully preventable with a 45 day total lockdown, which was never followed, nowhere in the world. Governments were terrible in their lockdown handling.


New Zealand did a pretty decent job, but in the end it'll be just like all the other countries. China too eventually, no matter how much they do zero tolerance. To get the entire world to understand the greater good is herding cats.



TraderPatTX said:


> Actually speech does change over time. We do not often say thou or thy in normal conversation. And the Founders knew technology changed. There were semi-automatic rifles during their time.


Well, yes. You got me there! Speech does change, but what you said was still a non sequitur. I'll rephrase my statement so that you can't try to squirm out of it. Free speech doesn't change in the way that technology does in regards to public safety. Better? 
Also for a gun nut, I would have thought you wouldn't think that semi automatic rifles were around in 1787. A simple google search says that it was first created in 1885, nearly an entire century later! 



TraderPatTX said:


> They all said the majority of people were jabbed.


Seems like you still don't understand ratios. Shame. 



TraderPatTX said:


> And it is not my responsibility to prove a negative. If you knew how to debate, you'd know that. You telling me you can't prove a negative? I did Nazi that coming.


You know you have the ability to proof-read what you type, right? I guess that means I know how to debate!



TraderPatTX said:


> And now you are fat shaming.


Is telling the truth shaming to you? Would you like to say that I'm wrong that the US obesity rate isn't high? It would go along with your other reality denying comments.



TraderPatTX said:


> You are anti-science for even suggesting something else could possibly work against Covid.


I know you're being sarcastic, but I let science run it's course on ivermectin and other theories. Once the findings were conclusive, then there's not much more to say. Although that being said, I wouldn't want to test injecting disinfectant into anyone's lungs.


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## tabzer (Nov 16, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Also for a gun nut, I would have thought you wouldn't think that semi automatic rifles were around in 1787. A simple google search says that it was first created in 1885, nearly an entire century later!



https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/03-05-02-0311

Relevant.


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## titan_tim (Nov 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/03-05-02-0311
> 
> Relevant.


That is one damn interesting letter! They had the idea to create a submarine at that time?!

The final part about the 8 bullet gun was also interesting also. Sounds like it would just fire every few seconds until all the bullets were out. But the project was scrapped as the inventor was asking too much to build them. I'm kind of surprised they had that idea, but didn't make an 'official' one until much later. Maybe it came down to the definition of what a semi-auto rifle is.

Very cool find!


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## TraderPatTX (Nov 16, 2022)

CommanderCool said:


> Hey bro since you won't answer in the other thread, can you answer me in this one?  Your talking points are really boring and I was just thinking that since everyone arguing with you is like arguing against a brick wall that gained sentience and has the mental capacity of a Fox News/OAN/Breitbart enthusiast that you can at least tell me one shitting habit of one Republican congressman.
> 
> It's not hard, bro.  Just answer the question.






LOLGF

	Post automatically merged: Nov 16, 2022



titan_tim said:


> Well, yes. You got me there! Speech does change, but what you said was still a non sequitur. I'll rephrase my statement so that you can't try to squirm out of it. Free speech doesn't change in the way that technology does in regards to public safety. Better?


The 1st Amendment only applies to quill and parchment.


titan_tim said:


> Also for a gun nut, I would have thought you wouldn't think that semi automatic rifles were around in 1787. A simple google search says that it was first created in 1885, nearly an entire century later!


I'm not going to say you are stupid, but I'm also not going to say you are not stupid. Gotta get that Google-fu up, son.

https://thethermidor.com/the-puckle-gun/


titan_tim said:


> You know you have the ability to proof-read what you type, right? I guess that means I know how to debate!


This coming from the guy who wrote the words bacterial virus is peak leftist projection.


titan_tim said:


> Is telling the truth shaming to you? Would you like to say that I'm wrong that the US obesity rate isn't high? It would go along with your other reality denying comments.


We don't fat shame anymore. Quit being a fat bigot.


titan_tim said:


> I know you're being sarcastic, but I let science run it's course on ivermectin and other theories. Once the findings were conclusive, then there's not much more to say. Although that being said, I wouldn't want to test injecting disinfectant into anyone's lungs.


Now look up the medical definition of disinfectant. I gotta say there are benefits to being married to a medical professional. It means she knows more than you about medical terminology.


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