# Crypto-Currency Ethereum Wallet Gets Hacked



## CallmeBerto (Jul 19, 2017)

Hope Ethereum tanks so I can get on it and make out like a king.


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## T-hug (Jul 19, 2017)

Seems like Ether was a very apt name.


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## migles (Jul 19, 2017)

finally good news to get my gpu!

@SonyUSA could you provide more info? how it was hacked, etc..
or it was stolen from that guy who got a whole warehouse with gpu mining rigs that holds the monopoly?


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## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2017)

I really hope so, i want a cheap rx 480 to replace my r9 290. Also glad i sold my €50 of ethereum 2 weeks ago . Wouldve mined more but i wouldnt make much so i turned it off (my mining went from 0.44 eth to 0.3 in a few days).

*i btw didnt buy gpus to mine with, i used the gpu i already have


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## SonyUSA (Jul 19, 2017)

migles said:


> finally good news to get my gpu!
> 
> @SonyUSA could you provide more info? how it was hacked, etc..
> or it was stolen from that guy who got a whole warehouse with gpu mining rigs that holds the monopoly?



Added a link to check out more info


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## RedoLane (Jul 19, 2017)

Sadly they couldn't avoid it *Ether* way.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 19, 2017)

Cheap high end GPU? O_O

I can buy a computer with GTX 1080I that cost less than a game console like Xbox one X?


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## Jayro (Jul 19, 2017)

Good, I'm tired of these cucks driving up GPU costs.


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## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Cheap high end GPU? O_O
> 
> I can buy a computer with GTX 1080I that cost less than a game console like Xbox one X?


I dont think you will find a gtx 1080ti for cheap xD


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## Armadillo (Jul 19, 2017)

migles said:


> finally good news to get my gpu!


1080ti wasn't effected by mining. Prices and availablity of them has been stable.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2017)

SonyUSA said:


> Following recent crypto-currency news, the popular currency known as Ethereum has been driving up GPU prices and demolishing availability, has been hacked. An estimated 153,000 "Ether" has been stolen, with estimates at a value of 32.6 million US dollars.
> 
> "The initWallet function should have been marked internal, but was instead not marked. Unmarked functions default to public in Solidity, so anyone can call that function and reinitialize the wallet to be under their control"
> 
> ...


Thread is a bit misleading.
According to the source, Ethereum wasn't the one that got hacked. The flaw is only in the Parity wallet, which Swarm City happened to be using.
You got me worried there for a bit since I invested a bit of money in Ethereum recently


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 19, 2017)

Riyaz said:


> I dont think you will find a gtx 1080ti for cheap xD


Oh... well still got my GTX 1050TI.

Hoping nvidia make a new android shield tv with GTX 1080TI Or tablet maybe


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## Armadillo (Jul 19, 2017)

Not sure if serious. 1080ti is a 250W card, you can't seriously expect it to end up in a tablet/android box.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 19, 2017)

Updated the title, since it was not accurate.


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## Joe88 (Jul 19, 2017)

So it was just one wallet site?
Sucks for them but this is the risk and what happens with crypto currencies, and its not the first time its happened and wont be the last...


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 19, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> So it was just one wallet site?


Correct, just one wallet site was hacked, Swarm City, not the entire currency as the previous title implied.

Sorry, it's not just one site but a specific wallet function. But regardless, not the cryptocurrency.


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## RedoLane (Jul 19, 2017)

Wallet Swarm sounds like a title for a Steam summer sale video game.


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## Mikemk (Jul 19, 2017)

SonyUSA said:


> Will we see a sudden surge of cheap, high end GPU's on the markets? One can only hope!



I certainly hope not.  I've been using my gaming computer to mine, so that would simultaneously cause me to lose money from eth AND tank the value of my computer.  Not that I was planning to sell it, but the first part's important.


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## SimplyFedorable (Jul 19, 2017)

christ, will this mean we can finally buy decent gpus?


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## Mikemk (Jul 19, 2017)

Though, if Bitcoin exchange hacks are anything to go buy, it'll drop prices slightly while the stolen eth is sold off, then go back up.  And maybe a few more people will learn to keep their money in their control.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank god. I was hoping for it to tank for a while now.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2017)

SimplyFedorable said:


> christ, will this mean we can finally buy decent gpus?





Mikemk said:


> I certainly hope not.  I've been using my gaming computer to mine, so that would simultaneously cause me to lose money from eth AND tank the value of my computer.  Not that I was planning to sell it, but the first part's important.





Riyaz said:


> I dont think you will find a gtx 1080ti for cheap xD


Probably not. The miners who are worried will just switch to another cryptocurrency, it's not like they aren't plentiful. At least on my GTX 970 (which I'm not mining on for the record, I just checked the numbers online), Sia and Ether are about equally profitable, with one being more profitable at some times and the other one at others, so for someone on a similar GPU switching to Sia instead wouldn't make much difference. Other coins might be more profitable on other GPUs though, I haven't looked too much into it. But mining looks like it's here to stay, so don't expect to be able to get cheap high-end GPUs until the miners eventually sell off their used GPUs when they are no longer profitable 
Buying used is not a bad option though, you can get slightly older GPUs for dirt cheap, ones that are still completely usable for running the latest AAA games.


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## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2017)

FUCK YES

Fuck those crypto horders


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## DinohScene (Jul 19, 2017)

And this is why crypto currencies are still a bad idea.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 19, 2017)

SonyUSA said:


> Will we see a sudden surge of cheap, high end GPU's on the markets? O


Yes. In fact, they are already all over ebay.


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## doughmay (Jul 20, 2017)

We can only hope the gpu market will stabilize.


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## linuxares (Jul 20, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> And this is why crypto currencies are still a bad idea.


Unless you wanna do illegal shit.


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## endoverend (Jul 20, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> And this is why crypto currencies are still a bad idea.


That's like hearing about someone robbing a bank and being like "This is why paper money was a terrible idea". You would have never been able to carry that money in silver bars or change!



TheDarkGreninja said:


> Thank god. I was hoping for it to tank for a while now.


It hasn't tanked. The price is still relatively the same. In fact, this hack will have absolutely nothing to do with the amount of GPUs there are on the market. In the grand scheme of Ethereum's market cap this is a drop in the bucket. If anything will cause more GPUs to be sold, it's the gradually increasing difficulty of generating blocks, not some hack.


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## Boured (Jul 20, 2017)

So I can finally not spend $800+ for a 1080 Ti?



Welp I guess that makes me happy


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## whateverg1012 (Jul 20, 2017)

Now those poor GPUs can be used for what they should be used for.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Boured said:


> So I can finally not spend $800+ for a 1080 Ti?
> 
> 
> 
> Welp I guess that makes me happy



Well 1080s weren't affected before, only the cheaper cards were.


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## Bubsy Bobcat (Jul 20, 2017)

I've never heard of this currency? What's so special about it? I'm not Googling it, you're not the boss of me.


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## DKB (Jul 20, 2017)

Bubsy Bobcat said:


> I've never heard of this currency? What's so special about it? I'm not Googling it, you're not the boss of me.



nothing it's just money lol


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## Windowlicker (Jul 20, 2017)

I may have already bought a 1080 MSI Gaming X 8GB on Ebay and it's probably the luckiest buy I've ever had, but this news is still music to my ears. It's almost done, guys. Go get a graphics card while you can.


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## Ericzander (Jul 20, 2017)

I never understood why people thought it was a good idea to invest in crypto currency...

If you have the money to burn on a GPU meant only to mine crypto currency, then that money is much better spent invested in the S&P 500 or some index fund that's very unlikely to completely tank.  Not saying that Ethereum will tank immediately as a result from this event, but it's only a matter of time before it goes the way of Bitcoin which will never get back to what it was (no matter how much faith the loud minority has in it).  

Unless you're laundering money or trying to buy illegal items, there's no reason to invest in something so fragile.  In America, the FDIC insures up to $250,000 so if your bank gets hacked, you're still guaranteed your money, up to that point.  Since there are little to no regulations on crypto currency you can't consider any of it secure.  Also, you can buy basically anything (legally) with cash or a debit card.  

So unless you're a criminal in some way, I don't see ANY advantage in investing in crypto currency.


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## RivenMain (Jul 20, 2017)

When your looking to buy a gpu and the guy tells you "they pay for themselves~"  If I wanted to mine I'd buy a pickaxe :'3


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## Boured (Jul 20, 2017)

whateverg1012 said:


> Now those poor GPUs can be used for what they should be used for.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Makes sense then, I mean a 1070 for the same price as a 1080 Ti


That's pretty tresh.


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## petethepug (Jul 20, 2017)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Probably not. The miners who are worried will just switch to another cryptocurrency, it's not like they aren't plentiful. At least on my GTX 970 (which I'm not mining on for the record, I just checked the numbers online), Sia and Ether are about equally profitable, with one being more profitable at some times and the other one at others, so for someone on a similar GPU switching to Sia instead wouldn't make much difference. Other coins might be more profitable on other GPUs though, I haven't looked too much into it. But mining looks like it's here to stay, so don't expect to be able to get cheap high-end GPUs until the miners eventually sell off their used GPUs when they are no longer profitable
> Buying used is not a bad option though, you can get slightly older GPUs for dirt cheap, ones that are still completely usable for running the latest AAA games.


Either that or the electronic items for video graphics the world mines up would become completely gone off the planet. Either making a huge rise in electronic equipment or a huge drop in value once people move off to other materials.


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## endoverend (Jul 20, 2017)

Ericzander said:


> I never understood why people thought it was a good idea to invest in crypto currency...
> 
> If you have the money to burn on a GPU meant only to mine crypto currency, then that money is much better spent invested in the S&P 500 or some index fund that's very unlikely to completely tank.  Not saying that Ethereum will tank immediately as a result from this event, but it's only a matter of time before it goes the way of Bitcoin which will never get back to what it was (no matter how much faith the loud minority has in it).
> 
> ...


Don't confuse investing in cryptocurrency with investing in mining hardware. You can invest in cryptocurrencies themselves without having to mine them. Investing in mining is generally pretty stupid, because most coins have difficulty bombs enabled such that mining becomes harder and harder and less and less profitable in order to maintain a finite supply. However, you can just invest in a cryptocurrency the same way you invest in stocks.

You're right that cryptocurrencies can tank, but they can also shoot up in ways that make more profits than any kind of index stock fund. Of course it's a risky venture, but it's mostly just people who have extra money to set aside for a risky investment. Are they "smart" investments? You could argue either way. There are tons of people who have made huge amounts of money off simply researching tons and finding out which coin would shoot up next, which in this case was Ethereum.

Also, I don't understand what you're saying about Bitcoin never getting back to where it was. It reached its all time high of $3,000 about a month ago, and it's at $2,300 right now, mostly due to concern over some protocol changes at the end of this month. It's not really that far from where it was, and tons of major market analysts are betting on it continuing to rise. In 2014, Bitcoin reached its then all-time high of about $1,000, but then continued to drop slowly for the next two years as some people lost interest. Many people said it would never again reach that high, but this year it almost tripled that value.

These are long-term investments, and we're talking years. The blockchain behind these currencies is an incredible technology, and really, when you're investing in cryptocurency you're investing in that. A lot of people legitimately believe that in countries without a strong fiat currency, coins like Bitcoin and other altcoins have a legitimate chance at seeing widespread adoption. We're not there yet-- so you're right, there really is no reason to invest for personal use right now. But for future gains, many people would say that these are some of the most solid investments around.

EDIT: Also, about the security bit, there are plenty of ways you can keep your cryptocurrency safe. There are hardware storage options such as flash drives, special hardware wallets, and even sets of private keys on paper that you can use to access your wallet. These can all be kept in cold storage and safe deposit boxes.


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## gudenau (Jul 20, 2017)

Wow, that is kind of crazy.

Security audits are important for things like this.


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## Nightwish (Jul 20, 2017)

What's the point of a high end GPU anyway, the gameplay's the same. I guess it's the only way not to get bored AAA these days... keep spending so it keeps going down, will you guys? Buy some Vives while you're at it, I might buy both 5 years from now if you do it.

How many people are mining, anyway? I'd think there'd be more usage for Deep Learning than cryptofads, but I really have no idea.

EDIT: typos


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## Reploid (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't think this is the best site for posting this kind of news.


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## Jarmenti (Jul 20, 2017)

The 1080 and Ti editions werent' affected as they are "crappier" at mining... less hashes per watt than the 1070 and amd cards... At one point you could sell your 1070, buy a 1080ti and a case of beer! I had just sold a 1070 to my friend for $500 CAD just prior to the GPU frenzy! lol


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## brickmii82 (Jul 20, 2017)

I'm willing to bet crypto is here for good. Basic economics dictates every bubble has a bust. The GPU market just had a bubble because of the Eth bubble. It'll bust as well. 

It's actually better if it lasts a bit longer, because retailers will increase stocks of mining cards. Then the bust happens so they liquidate at cheap prices for brand new cards, rather than miners liquidating used ones.


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## Windowlicker (Jul 20, 2017)

Jarmenti said:


> The 1080 and Ti editions werent' affected as they are "crappier" at mining... less hashes per watt than the 1070 and amd cards... At one point you could sell your 1070, buy a 1080ti and a case of beer! I had just sold a 1070 to my friend for $500 CAD just prior to the GPU frenzy! lol


In a way they were. Due to mining, there was, as we know, a lack of cheaper cards. The more expensive cards weren't affected directly, but when there was a lack of 1060s everyone bought 1080s despite them being pricier. In turn, that caused a similar lack of 1080s as well. I was truly lucky to find a generally speaking cheap 1080 two days ago on Ebay.


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## Todderbert (Jul 20, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Oh... well still got my GTX 1050TI.
> 
> Hoping nvidia make a new android shield tv with GTX 1080TI Or tablet maybe



I have a pair of 1050Tis running Eins[email protected], they are awesome cards.

As far as crypto crap and fake money, I'll hang onto the real stuff.


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

Finally miner get what they deserved.


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## Lucifer666 (Jul 20, 2017)

Everyone on this thread's acting like people investing time and money into setting up mining stations is inherently a bad thing lol

Surprise, graphics manufacturers can tailor to both miners and gamers it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. At least mining has encouraged the industry to move forward


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## leon315 (Jul 20, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Yes. In fact, they are already all over ebay.


Pls can u provide me the link?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

A quote I once saw pertaining to bitcoin exchanges was 
"There are two types of bitcoin exchange; those which have been hacked, and those which don't yet know they have been hacked"
Seems history gets to repeat itself.



Jayro said:


> Good, I'm tired of these cucks driving up GPU costs.


How is one a cuck, either in the traditional sense or the more recent weird alt right/internet sense, for buying a GPU to use?



DinohScene said:


> And this is why crypto currencies are still a bad idea.


Plenty of people have had their paypal account hacked, are we to dismiss more conventional currencies off the back of that?



whateverg1012 said:


> Now those poor GPUs can be used for what they should be used for.


Calculating lots of numbers at a time? Pretty sure that is what they were being used for.



Bubsy Bobcat said:


> I've never heard of this currency? What's so special about it? I'm not Googling it, you're not the boss of me.


Contrary to the other reply you go there is more to it. Yes it can function as another currency but it also does something called smart contracts

Ethereum is then the one to do this that has caught the mind of the public.



Reploid said:


> I don't think this is the best site for posting this kind of news.


As of writing this we seem to be on the third page of discussion which is staying on topic. The site clearly has a tech focus and this is a fairly major event within it all.



Yil said:


> Finally miner get what they deserved.


They appear to be participating in a legal activity that is not harming anybody other than those which "have" to have some of the shinier graphics cards right now. What might they deserve?


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> A quote I once saw pertaining to bitcoin exchanges was
> "There are two types of bitcoin exchange; those which have been hacked, and those which don't yet know they have been hacked"
> Seems history gets to repeat itself.
> 
> ...



Everything from rx 560 to gtx 1070 are gone or resold at over twice the price, and all of them are second handed with damaged chip. It's not just shinier ones, but every single gpu worth buying below originally priced at $450.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Everything from rx 560 to gtx 1070 are gone or resold at over twice the price, and all of them are second handed with damaged chip. It's not just shinier ones, but every single gpu worth buying below originally priced at $450.



Your point? Demand exceeded supply and a price rose because of it. Sucks if you had a gaming rig planned or something but beyond that I can not see a problem.


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## Jayro (Jul 20, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Your point? Demand exceeded supply and a price rose because of it. Sucks if you had a gaming rig planned or something but beyond that I can not see a problem.


That's _*precisely*_ the problem... I've been waiting patiently for the 1060 6GB to come down below $200, and just as it hit the $200 mark, they go up to over $400, thanks to miners... Now I have to wait for them to move on to 8GB cards, as well as wait for the used cards to trickle away and new cards to become restocked at regular  price again.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

Sucks to be you I guess. Still not seeing what the miners might have done wrong in any kind of legal, moral or ethical sense.


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## Jayro (Jul 20, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Sucks to be you I guess. Still not seeing what the miners might have done wrong in any kind of legal, moral or ethical sense.


Their GREED for mining is taking away the ability of others who want to upgrade at retail price... What's not to get?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

I was once in a used car stealership and the guy asked "how much do you want to pay today?"
The reply of course was nothing at all.

Equally it is usually called RRP which is recommended retail price, not hard enforced retail price. Going further said retail price is not some magical price derived by science and some kind of idea of fairness and is what they think they can gouge out of you for it.


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## DinohScene (Jul 20, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Plenty of people have had their paypal account hacked, are we to dismiss more conventional currencies off the back of that?



Paypal is better protected then crypto currency.
The money back be traced back, something that crypto currency can't.

I'm all for digital currencies, don't get me wrong on that.
But having a non-centralized currency with constantly inflating prices...



endoverend said:


> That's like hearing about someone robbing a bank and being like "This is why paper money was a terrible idea". You would have never been able to carry that money in silver bars or change!



It's highly unlikely that in this day and age, a robber would successfully pull off a heist.
Chances of being busted are a trillion to one.


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## Windowlicker (Jul 20, 2017)

Jayro said:


> Their GREED for mining is taking away the ability of others who want to upgrade at retail price... What's not to get?


Don't worry, they'll get it when Ethereum finally crashes and burns.


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## Viri (Jul 20, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Paypal is better protected then crypto currency


+1
I've had my Paypal hacked in 2011 or 2012, (forgot which year). I called them, and they returned all my money, banned the hacker, and changed my password. Paypal has really good customer service. They helped me out every time, when someone ripped me off on eBay, which is pretty rare.


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## air2004 (Jul 20, 2017)

What are the odds that this was an inside job?


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 20, 2017)

Viri said:


> Paypal has really good customer service.


except when someone buys something off you on ebay and they issue a claim they always get their fucking money back even if you have proof you sent it. fuck paypal


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Paypal is better protected then crypto currency.
> The money back be traced back, something that crypto currency can't.
> 
> I'm all for digital currencies, don't get me wrong on that.
> ...



It can't be traced back all the time, in fact for anybody competent can probably dodge that. It is more that paypal, credit cards and such will swallow the expense/have insurance against it. If you want to argue that exchanges and online wallets and whatnot should have more protection then so be it, however it is a far cry from that to blaming a protocol.

"But having a non-centralized currency with constantly inflating prices..."
But it is a known variable and a known concept. If I buy shares in a new company they will (hopefully) eventually issue more which devalues mine, however the price would have raised so much that should I sell I will be ahead on the deal and everybody thinks that is a smart investment. Beyond that there are negative lines in exchange rates for any exchange you care to look at. The general trend is up but so is the world.
Also what governments or central authorities can keep a currency in line? The US can't, China can't, Russia hahaha, how close did the Euro come when Greece lied their way in and the lies caught up with them?

Equally on bank robberies
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/violent-crime/bank-robbery/bank-crime-reports
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/241-260/tandi253.html
http://www.ebf-fbe.eu/wp-content/up..._Robberies_-_Exec_Summary-2008-01780-01-E.pdf (PDF link)
More than a statistical blip there.



Elysium420 said:


> Don't worry, they'll get it when Ethereum finally crashes and burns.


There is nothing to get. 
Spin it another way. I like old tools. I use old tools as they were designed for even, it is mainly a hobby of mine. Every few years some interior designer mistakenly thinks that their grandfather was not a lazy bastard and all the old tools on the shelf were there because they looked cool. All of a sudden the old tools I am buying for not a lot shoot up in price for a while until the fad passes and art deco or something is back in.
Do I complain? No, no need and no justification for it.

Also why is it likely to crash and burn? There are plenty of others that have stood the test of time, in internet terms anyway.


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## gamesquest1 (Jul 20, 2017)

Jayro said:


> Their GREED for mining is taking away the ability of others who want to upgrade at retail price... What's not to get?


Tbf maybe in their opinion stupid gamers are driving up the price of their mining rigs, while I understand where your coming from, they do have a legitimate use for buying and using the cards.....unlike traditional scalpers like with the Nintendo classic systems where people are buying up a finite resource for the sole reason of trying to inflate prices to resell at a profit.......maybe you should have more of an issue with the scalpers buying to resell than the guys who are buying the cards to use for whatever reason be it gaming or crypto currency mining, your all in the same boat, except their desire to buy the cards surpasses yours


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## gnmmarechal (Jul 20, 2017)

ouch. Of all things to fail.... this one... ouch.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



whateverg1012 said:


> Now those poor GPUs can be used for what they should be used for.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


like... no? People can do whatever they want with the hardware they buy.


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

Bladexdsl said:


> except when someone buys something off you on ebay and they issue a claim they always get their fucking money back even if you have proof you sent it. fuck paypal


Thankfully I have access to Taobao which has all the cheap made in China electronics, and managed better than ebay.


gnmmarechal said:


> ouch. Of all things to fail.... this one... ouch.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


The problem is in a month or two these damged cards are going to be sent to market rebranded at normal price.


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## gnmmarechal (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Thankfully I have access to Taobao which has all the cheap made in China electronics, and managed better than ebay.
> 
> The problem is in a month or two these damged cards are going to be sent to market rebranded at normal price.


They're not really "damaged", and will be sold as used

Sent from my cave of despair where I don't stalk Seriel


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

gnmmarechal said:


> They're not really "damaged", and will be sold as used
> 
> Sent from my cave of despair where I don't stalk Seriel


Not as in unusable, but it will not be able to hit the same clock. The damage is mostly on the board but you need at least three years of electrical engineering to know how to fit that together, and manufacturer aren't too keen to give you a new card.


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## gnmmarechal (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Not as in unusable, but it will not be able to hit the same clock. The damage is mostly on the board but you need at least three years of electrical engineering to know how to fit that together, and manufacturer aren't too keen to give you a new card.


Again, they're not sold as "new" or "almost new" unless the seller is a dishonest prick

Sent from my cave of despair where I don't stalk Seriel


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## Windowlicker (Jul 20, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> There is nothing to get.
> Spin it another way. I like old tools. I use old tools as they were designed for even, it is mainly a hobby of mine. Every few years some interior designer mistakenly thinks that their grandfather was not a lazy bastard and all the old tools on the shelf were there because they looked cool. All of a sudden the old tools I am buying for not a lot shoot up in price for a while until the fad passes and art deco or something is back in.
> Do I complain? No, no need and no justification for it.



Not a good example you gave there. Time passes. Whoever doesn't accept that is an idiot in my eyes. You shouldn't complain about things getting old and getting more expensive as time passes, true. However, you can certainly say something about people being greedy and harming the free market. They are, as I said, people. They choose to fuck over the other buyers for their personal profit. They know well that they are buying way too many cards for the shops to keep up with demand. They are parasites. You can have your opinion, but I can have mine as well.


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## Haider Raza (Jul 20, 2017)

I'm using Onelife.eu crypto currency. Bought long ago. They closed coin exchange. I contacted them they told. Coin exchange will be available once coins get priced up. They want to reach some goal. Right now I have 66coins there. Don't know what to do with them.


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

Before anyone said anything it's mostly small coorperation holding thousands of Rx 580 each station. Each unit runs on 8 PCIe * 1 with an i3, with little to no external cooling or even chasis.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

Elysium420 said:


> Not a good example you gave there. Time passes. Whoever doesn't accept that is an idiot in my eyes. You shouldn't complain about things getting old and getting more expensive as time passes, true. However, you can certainly say something about people being greedy and harming the free market. They are, as I said, people. They choose to fuck over the other buyers for their personal profit. They know well that they are buying way too many cards for the shops to keep up with demand. They are parasites. You can have your opinion, but I can have mine as well.


What? I said nothing about time passing. I said one of my luxury hobbies occasionally gets a bump in price. Here gaming is one of your luxury hobbies and it has a bump in price at present time.
How is anybody getting fucked over? As far as I can see someone says "I have these items for sale", another says "excellent, I will have some", funds get exchanged and the goods get delivered. Had you reserved a graphics card and then someone pulled it from you (though I presume most reservation methods have an agreement like for a full refund of deposit the seller reserves the right to cancel for any reason) we might have had a discussion. This however is basic supply and demand.

You can have your opinion, however if you are going to share it and possibly suggest others follow it then you may well get told it is wrong and why it is wrong. Loads of others told you this before you shut your blog on the same subject down. I like gaming, I like gamers, I am generally indifferent to virtual miners, however I am nowhere close to feeling any kind of ill will towards the miners, much less censuring them in any kind of way. However people started prattling on about rights (granted on your old blog more than this thread) and casting aspersions which is just silly. Once again had you said "I wanted to buy a card but the prices have shot up" I would have said "sucks, they will be back down before too long though" and that would have been that. This nonsense about damaging markets is nonsense and I have to treat it as such.


----------



## Pluupy (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't understand. How does this bitcoin copycat influence video card prices?


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 20, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> I don't understand. How does this bitcoin copycat influence video card prices?


GPUs are used to mine cryptocurrencies. Ether became popular to mine because it was fairly profitable for a time, so people and companies have been buying as many GPUs as they can get their hands on, causing a shortage. Now that this happened, some miners are likely to abandon mining and the demand for GPUs will lower, allowing the prices to fall back to normal MSRP.


----------



## migles (Jul 20, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> I don't understand. How does this bitcoin copycat influence video card prices?


like tom said, there is a very high demand for them now, retailers\sellers grab this opportunity to increase the prices to profit


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

migles said:


> like tom said, there is a very high demand for them now, retailers\sellers grab this opportunity to increase the prices to profit


The problem is the new generation of cards are coming right now, say Vega and gtx 20xx series.


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## migles (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> gtx 20xx series.


right now? when?
is that volta?


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

migles said:


> right now? when?
> is that volta?


Yeap. Nvidia will probably start shipping before Christmas to counter Vega. Hell, I think they should disable mining by driver.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Tom Bombadildo said:


> GPUs are used to mine cryptocurrencies. Ether became popular to mine because it was fairly profitable for a time, so people and companies have been buying as many GPUs as they can get their hands on, causing a shortage. Now that this happened, some miners are likely to abandon mining and the demand for GPUs will lower, allowing the prices to fall back to normal MSRP.


In some market the price completely collapse.


----------



## gnmmarechal (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Yeap. Nvidia will probably start shipping before Christmas to counter Vega. Hell, I think they should disable mining by driver.


Now that is just completely ridiculous.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Hell, I think they should disable mining by driver.


Leaving aside that such a move would probably have them under fire by various regulatory bodies how would you propose doing that?
Games, video encoders/filters and any number of other things have used the exposed calculation options of graphics cards for over a decade at this point, possibly even nearer to two decades in some cases. To that end they can't really get rid of those options and as such they can't exclude mining.

They might make a version that is less useful for games but can still do mining style calculations, and possibly some calculations others might want, but that is a different matter.


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## Armadillo (Jul 20, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Leaving aside that such a move would probably have them under fire by various regulatory bodies how would you propose doing that?



If it could be, I don't see why disabling a feature in drivers would cause any problems legally. It's not like locking off stuff via drivers hasn't been done before.

Nvidia locked you off from using a 2nd card as dedicated PhysX card if your primary card was AMD. Nothing stopping it working except artificial driver limitation (there was hacked drivers to go around it at one point).

Not sure why locking off mining would be different and cause them problems.



FAST6191 said:


> They might make a version that is less useful for games but can still do mining style calculations, and possibly some calculations others might want, but that is a different matter.



Sapphire already did it.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...sung-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-380-sp.html

470 with video out stripped off. Don't think it had the desired effect as there's no resale value on such a card when the bubble pops.


On gpu prices in general though, I wouldn't expect instant drops soon as mining is done anyway. Not just mining pushing them up, memory shortages are as well. Anything using memory has gone up as well. SSD prices and ram are also massivly inflated at the moment. Mining is not helping, but it's not the sole cause of high gpu prices.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2017)

You could possibly make a stability argument for the physx stuff, though I shall have to read more into that. The only driver related fun I had previously seen was for the CAD focused graphics cards and the regular ones where the former had special (usually slower and stability focused) drivers for essentially the same hardware.

It was more that it gets a bit tricky if you start restricting things for an otherwise open device. See also Sony getting a slap when they removed Linux from the PS3
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...tion-lawsuit-regarding-os-reached-settlement/
Now I agree that depending upon the timing of actions and how they set about selling it, possibly also the nature of drivers (I am a bit behind the times but I assume they went the same way as Intel microcode in their CPUs/almost FPGA programming style setups) that the PS3 thing above may be poor comparison but that would be where I come from for now.


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## gnmmarechal (Jul 20, 2017)

Armadillo said:


> If it could be, I don't see why disabling a feature in drivers would cause any problems legally. It's not like locking off stuff via drivers hasn't been done before.
> 
> Nvidia locked you off from using a 2nd card as dedicated PhysX card if your primary card was AMD. Nothing stopping it working except artificial driver limitation (there was hacked drivers to go around it at one point).
> 
> ...


I wouldn't buy any such card unless they were A LOT cheaper than their regular ones.


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## Yil (Jul 20, 2017)

gnmmarechal said:


> I wouldn't buy any such card unless they were A LOT cheaper than their regular ones.


Funny cause Nvidia said they are going to push both gtx 1060 and gtx 1080 (with GDDR5 which has lower latency) with mining optimized driver. They are hardly cheaper if not more expansive and a non-renewable warranty of 90 days.


----------



## gnmmarechal (Jul 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Funny cause Nvidia said they are going to push both gtx 1060 and gtx 1080 (with GDDR5 which has lower latency) with mining optimized driver. They are hardly cheaper if not more expansive and a non-renewable warranty of 90 days.


If they're more expensive, I doubt they'll have much success

Sent from my cave of despair where I don't stalk Seriel


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## gnmmarechal (Jul 21, 2017)

According to one I know, the only affected people were the stupid people who hadn't updated their client since January, and were still online.


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## Pacheko17 (Jul 21, 2017)

This sucks for a lot of people, some dudes are losing a shit ton of money, but all the kids care about is MUH GPUZ!!


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> This sucks for a lot of people, some dudes are losing a shit ton of money, but all the kids care about is MUH GPUZ!!


It's not a proper business practice and other people are stripped the chance to get a gpu.


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## Mikemk (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> It's not a proper business practice and other people are stripped the chance to get a gpu.


Making money is the only proper business practice, and supply/demand changes are logical effects.


----------



## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

Mikemk said:


> Making money is the only proper business practice, and supply/demand changes are logical effects.


Still, I can get pissed about it and wish them bad luck.
And how is something that fluctuate this fast without any other purpose a proper practice? Do they make stuff or offer service that other people can use? Bitcoins have jumped over 1 million times.


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## Futurdreamz (Jul 21, 2017)

Mikemk said:


> Making money is the only proper business practice, and supply/demand changes are logical effects.


Accumulating goodwill can be vital to making money in the long term. And supply/demand doesn't really work once configuration complacency sets in. Why do you think so many people still use Yahoo?


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2017)

So hopefully the 1060 6gb will go back down to 250$ on amazon?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Still, I can get pissed about it and wish them bad luck.
> And how is something that fluctuate this fast without any other purpose a proper practice? Do they make stuff or offer service that other people can use? Bitcoins have jumped over 1 million times.


You can do as you please but I can not see how wishing someone ill will for doing no real harm is cool.
If facilitating transactions was not enough then again this is a type of currency which does so called smart contracts and that is a service any way you slice it


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

Ominous66521 said:


> So hopefully the 1060 6gb will go back down to 250$ on amazon?


I should have grabbed Nitro+ rx 580 for 350 CAD (including tax) when I can.
Those will be the ones that underwent several month of mining abuse.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jul 21, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> You could possibly make a stability argument for the physx stuff, though I shall have to read more into that. The only driver related fun I had previously seen was for the CAD focused graphics cards and the regular ones where the former had special (usually slower and stability focused) drivers for essentially the same hardware.


If we want to get technical one could make the same argument for locking a card out of mining


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> If we want to get technical one could make the same argument for locking a card out of mining


So is it more likely to target established executable, codes (professional mining facilities should be running their own os, and Nvidia might not even have a driver for it so blocking is impossible), or protocals?


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Even if drivers were locked, they'd still be used for mining. People would just create their own. They did it with firmware. Why would drivers be different? We hack the shit out of electronics here for gaming. People will go further if it involves money.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jul 21, 2017)

Todderbert said:


> I have a pair of 1050Tis running [email protected], they are awesome cards.
> 
> As far as crypto crap and fake money, I'll hang onto the real stuff.




chocolate money?


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> Even if drivers were locked, they'd still be used for mining. People would just create their own. They did it with firmware. Why would drivers be different? We hack the shit out of electronics here for gaming. People will go further if it involves money.


Not every miner has that capacity, even installing a custom firmware can be hard let alone writing them.


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## Pacheko17 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> It's not a proper business practice and other people are stripped the chance to get a gpu.



It is a proper business practice.
Otherwise, a friend of mine wouldn't be where he is today. 
He started pretty early but he still profits from it.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> It is a proper business practice.
> Otherwise, a friend of mine wouldn't be where he is today.
> He started pretty early but he still profits from it.


I don't really see how a currency that jumps hundreds of times in less than a year suggest a stable economy.


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## Pacheko17 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> I don't really see how a currency that jumps hundreds of times in less than a year suggest a stable economy.



That's the cool part, people really like trading it.
Also, the brazillian real does that all the time, Brazil is still a thing though and our economy is pretty strong.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> If we want to get technical one could make the same argument for locking a card out of mining



It is not really the same though; it was just the main example I had of fun and games at the driver level in the past.
Driver lockout would be blacklisting a program.
You can still run a CAD program on a consumer card, might even run faster. The idea behind the CAD type cards was like all the fancy hard drives (right now it would be SAS type drives https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/hard-drives-internal/serial-attached-scsi-sas-25 ) they were there to do a task well. Or if you prefer "oh dear COD crashed" matters little for most in the grand scheme of things, "oh dear my day rates are $3000 and the firm I am working for bills me out at even more, CAD program I am designing the part in crashed" is something you can then sell a more stable approach, and possibly a more robust card for (a workstation for that sort of thing might have hard things like dual power supplies, power backup, ECC memory... basically a server with a fancy graphics card to run all the 3d and warranties that read "we will fly an engineer out if it breaks"), and the CAD companies would also play to it and say "we will guarantee it works and if it does not we are up until it is done".
However as you don't really need to design a whole new card (to say nothing of having thousands of gamers test it for you) you can make a card, test it more in the factory, give it a good warranty, maybe stick better capacitors in there or if there is such a thing as ECC GDDR memory then that... and sell that. Part of that was also the drivers, which by this point in time were more than just a way to interface with the card and did some calculations in their own right, did all the fun safe/secure coding practices ( https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/seccode/Top+10+Secure+Coding+Practices ) which slow things down and gamers don't care about.
Some people then figured out you could buy the gamer equivalent of the CAD focused card, hack the drivers a bit and get much of the fun of a CAD card on the cheap.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

Say a piece of bread is worth 1 buck today. In half a year you cannot even get a slice for the same money but the same time next year you can buy a room of them. How is that good?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



brickmii82 said:


> The programmer will sell it, and install it in TeamViewer. In my research I found many people selling the FW they created, or just giving it away as freeware. They'd have a donation address for Eth though.


If it's that profitable they would be doing it themselves.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Not every miner has that capacity, even installing a custom firmware can be hard let alone writing them.


The programmer will sell it, and install it in TeamViewer. In my research I found many people selling the FW they created, or just giving it away as freeware. They'd have a donation address for Eth though.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

The GPU market will approach a Nash Equilibrium regardless if Eth stays or dies off. Manufacturers will increase production to meet demand if demand continues to increase, or if it stays where it's at. AMD won't lose money by sending miners to Nvidia for "principles." Likewise for Nvidia.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Yil said:


> Say a piece of bread is worth 1 buck today. In half a year you cannot even get a slice for the same money but the same time next year you can buy a room of them. How is that good?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



They do. Usually they do it for extra money. Once the rig is set up, all you do is transfer currency to wallets or exchanges.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> The GPU market will approach a Nash Equilibrium regardless if Eth stays or dies off. Manufacturers will increase production to meet demand if demand continues to increase, or if it stays where it's at. AMD won't lose money by sending miners to Nvidia for "principles." Likewise for Nvidia.


But Nvidia understands the backlash while AMD don't have the resource for a separate line of cards.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



brickmii82 said:


> The GPU market will approach a Nash Equilibrium regardless if Eth stays or dies off. Manufacturers will increase production to meet demand if demand continues to increase, or if it stays where it's at. AMD won't lose money by sending miners to Nvidia for "principles." Likewise for Nvidia.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


No, I mean using that money to buy more hardware to increase your own chance than diverting it.


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## N64 (Jul 21, 2017)

glad to see crypto fans here. I'm a Gamecredits fan myself, not a huge fan of Ethereum (due to the DAO hardfork) but I like Ethereum Classic. Mining is out of reach imo so its better to just buy the crypto itself with the funds you would use for mining equipment, unless you're looking at very low cap coins


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> But Nvidia understands the backlash while AMD don't have the resource for a separate line of cards.


AMD has plenty of resources to accommodate both miners and PC enthusiasts. In the end, the onus of responsibility falls on the manufacturers. They have an opportunity to sell more, so they need to produce more.

It's a bit of a moot point though, on all of this thread. By Nov 1 the Ethereum network is to be converted to Proof of Stake rather than Proof of Work. The reason for this is a 51% attack (buying a shitton of Eth) can cripple the network. But, this blockchain formula doesn't utilize mining anymore. So no more miners.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> AMD has plenty of resources to accommodate both miners and PC enthusiasts. In the end, the onus of responsibility falls on the manufacturers. They have an opportunity to sell more, so they need to produce more.
> 
> It's a bit of a moot point though, on all of this thread. By Nov 1 the Ethereum network is to be converted to Proof of Stake rather than Proof of Work. The reason for this is a 51% attack (buying a shitton of Eth) can cripple the network. But, this blockchain formula doesn't utilize mining anymore. So no more miners.


Yes but since using the card does not violate the warrent, the manufacturer have to deal with customer support in the future when the board gets damaged.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> But Nvidia understands the backlash while AMD don't have the resource for a separate line of cards.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Even if you built 100 rigs, you're still not likely to be competitive against mining pools. You have 100 rigs, they have 20,000. Due to hashing difficulty increasing, and the shear amount of miners now, @N64 is right. Just buy and sell for profits.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Say a piece of bread is worth 1 buck today. In half a year you cannot even get a slice for the same money but the same time next year you can buy a room of them. How is that good?



If your aim is to facilitate a country style economy with day to day transactions of the common man, and a rate of inflation that all but guarantees your money will be about as useful this time next year and possibly even in 10, then yes it would fail miserably.
If your aim is something more immediate (with all the other benefits like being free, without any great oversight/regulation, somewhat anonymous, pretty quick as these things go) or something more long term then it appears to work just fine.

In just the same fashion I can buy any number of conventional financial instruments (bearer bonds, stocks/shares, land rights... more in this video) which fail if I need bread and milk from my local corner shop. Still valid things though.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> If your aim is to facilitate a country style economy with day to day transactions of the common man, and a rate of inflation that all but guarantees your money will be about as useful this time next year and possibly even in 10, then yes it would fail miserably.
> If your aim is something more immediate (with all the other benefits like being free, without any great oversight/regulation, somewhat anonymous, pretty quick as these things go) or something more long term then it appears to work just fine.
> 
> In just the same fashion I can buy any number of conventional financial instruments (bearer bonds, stocks/shares, land rights... more in this video) which fail if I need bread and milk from my local corner shop. Still valid things though.


First quick bucks are always shady, and second most oppotunist are not great at long term planning.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> First quick bucks are always shady, and second most oppotunist are not great at long term planning.


Give or take environmental concerns there are ways to quite legitimately make money fast. By the nature of the world they tend to be hard to spot and the gaps tend to rapidly close as people rush in and margins get reduced but perfectly legitimate ones do exist.
So opportunists are not great at long term planning, what is your point here?


----------



## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> First quick bucks are always shady, and second most oppotunist are not great at long term planning.


I wouldn't say "always" shady. The quick buck just has the highest risk for shadiness. You don't have to be great at long term planning either. Just have a plan. That's called investment strategy. Buy low, sell high. Set the profit margins to your liking, and execute your plan accordingly.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Give or take environmental concerns there are ways to quite legitimately make money fast. By the nature of the world they tend to be hard to spot and the gaps tend to rapidly close as people rush in and margins get reduced but perfectly legitimate ones do exist.
> So opportunists are not great at long term planning, what is your point here?


What I am saying is that at this point most government will have to illegitimize mining and crypto currency. Germany is already on it.


----------



## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> What I am saying is that at this point most government will have to illegitimize mining and crypto currency. Germany is already on it.


Then they might as well start burning books again. Crypto isn't a Ponzi Scheme. It's an experiment in currencies and economics.


----------



## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> I wouldn't say "always" shady. The quick buck just has the highest risk for shadiness. You don't have to be great at long term planning either. Just have a plan. That's called investment strategy. Buy low, sell high. Set the profit margins to your liking, and execute your plan accordingly.


But how many people has the foresight? Many miners pays more electric bills than their earning.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



brickmii82 said:


> Then they might as well start burning books again. Crypto isn't a Ponzi Scheme. It's an experiment in currencies and economics.


It's not intended to be but currently gets overrun by people who only joins after all the profits are gone.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> But how many people has the foresight? Many miners pays more electric bills than their earning.


It's still a personal liberty they're partaking in. They make those choices, and have a right to.


You can't say it's not profitable. It may not be for some, but for others it is. I've posted the entire lifetime currency to value charts earlier in this thread. For Bitcoin, Eth, and Litecoin. It appears highly profitable and potentially a groundbreaking idea.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> What I am saying is that at this point most government will have to illegitimize mining and crypto currency. Germany is already on it.


Bitcoin has been around, popular even, for how many years now? Most governments I have seen have ultimately said "we will treat it like various other types of investments and as long as you pay the relevant tax (capital gains or something) when you sell it or perform exchanges with it then it is all good". Any other illegal services/items you might purchase then fall under existing laws, possibly with the nature of payment being an aggravating factor in charges.

Likewise the grounds for making it illegal would conflict somewhat with the basic concepts of law in most "free" countries, that being something like you are free to live your life as you see fit as long as you are not harming others or society at large.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> It's still a personal liberty they're partaking in. They make those choices, and have a right to.


And f****d over themselves, then they either move on losing an portion or become broke and homeless.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> And f****d over themselves, then they either move on losing an portion or become broke and homeless.


So? Businesses and other ventures fail all the time. It seems to be a risk society is OK with, especially as the upside is you get nice businesses and ventures.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Bitcoin has been around, popular even, for how many years now? Most governments I have seen have ultimately said "we will treat it like various other types of investments and as long as you pay the relevant tax (capital gains or something) when you sell it or perform exchanges with it then it is all good". Any other illegal services/items you might purchase then fall under existing laws, possibly with the nature of payment being an aggravating factor in charges.
> 
> Likewise the grounds for making it illegal would conflict somewhat with the basic concepts of law in most "free" countries, that being something like you are free to live your life as you see fit as long as you are not harming others or society at large.


First gpu mining is now useless for bitcoin, and second it's stable.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Tell me how these charts show crypto as unprofitable?


----------



## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> So? Businesses and other ventures fail all the time. It seems to be a risk society is OK with, especially as the upside is you get nice businesses and ventures.


The problem is they start 'b*t**ing' after suffering the consequences. And the recent Eth drop?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



brickmii82 said:


> View attachment 93450 View attachment 93451 View attachment 93452
> 
> Tell me how these charts show crypto as unprofitable?


Trading, yes. Mining, hell no.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> The problem is they start 'b*t**ing' after suffering the consequences. And the recent Eth drop?


The mandatory bust after a bubble. It's why the Federal Reserve was created in America. Too much growth too quickly always has a backlash.


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> The mandatory bust after a bubble. It's why the Federal Reserve was created in America. Too much growth too quickly always has a backlash.


Maybe the government gets smart before things get out of hand.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> First gpu mining is now useless for bitcoin, and second it's stable.


How is GPU mining relevant to this aspect of the discussion? I can go just as broke by buying FPGAs or custom silicon.
Also
https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg730ztgTzm1g10zm2g25
Hardly stable compared to other financial instruments; start of the year around 1000 exchange rate for that exchange (for the sake of keeping the posts relatively link free can we agree it is going to be broadly similar for the other exchanges), topped 3000 a few months later, then saw a drop of 33% to 2000 or so which is still double what the thing started the year at and in the last few days has crept back up.



Yil said:


> The problem is they start 'b*t**ing' after suffering the consequences.


And? A business I do some stuff for had a partner completely drop the ball and tank it a while back. Some harsh words were said by people involved there. After that life carried on. Seems no different here.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Maybe the government gets smart before things get out of hand.


It's not a governments job to think for people. They need to do that for themselves.


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## N64 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Trading, yes. Mining, hell no.



Smart miners mine today and hold for the future. Those that mine today to sell immediately will always break even or lose


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## Yil (Jul 21, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> It's not a governments job to think for people.


No. It's to save themselves the trouble of cleanning up.


FAST6191 said:


> How is GPU mining relevant to this aspect of the discussion? I can go just as broke by buying FPGAs or custom silicon.
> Also
> https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg730ztgTzm1g10zm2g25
> Hardly stable compared to other financial instruments; start of the year around 1000 exchange rate for that exchange (for the sake of keeping the posts relatively link free can we agree it is going to be broadly similar for the other exchanges), topped 3000 a few months later, then saw a drop of 33% to 2000 or so which is still double what the thing started the year at and in the last few days has crept back up.
> ...


It's much better than years back but after it enters public eyes.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> No. It's to save themselves the trouble of cleanning up.


What great harms are befalling or about to befall society because of virtual currency mining, and the existence thereof?


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## brickmii82 (Jul 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> No. It's to save themselves the trouble of cleanning up.


Clean up what? Money lost
in poor investment strategy? That's not a governments job either.

I can understand regulations and oversight. Humanity has greedy tendencies. However, the intrusion into personal liberties for the sake of "protection" is always a bad idea.


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## Naridar (Jul 22, 2017)

HA!
Justice has been done. In case somebody forgot, many organized crime syndicates and even terrorist organizations relied on cryptocurrency to do their finances. Not to mention buying up GPUs en masse to the point where their prices skyrocket and using them for purposes other than their intended use is analogue to scalping. GPU manufacturers should have torpedoed mining with driver updates long ago.


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## darkangel5000 (Jul 22, 2017)

Naridar said:


> and using them for purposes other than their intended use is analogue to scalping


>researchers relying on raw GPU power in their campuses
>CAD designers that need a decent GPU
>people that do Blender renders as a hobby
>people that have 8GB of VRAM but'll never do anything but using MS Office and surfing on Facebook
Are those "intended uses" for a gaming GPU? If so - why not mining? How is it any different in comparison to projects like [email protected]? And why do you keep your head so far up your intestinal cavities?


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## Yil (Jul 22, 2017)

darkangel5000 said:


> >researchers relying on raw GPU power in their campuses
> >CAD designers that need a decent GPU
> >people that do Blender renders as a hobby
> >people that have 8GB of VRAM but'll never do anything but using MS Office and surfing on Facebook
> Are those "intended uses" for a gaming GPU? If so - why not mining? How is it any different in comparison to projects like [email protected]? And why do you keep your head so far up your intestinal cavities?


People can still be pissed with not very good reasons.


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## Todderbert (Jul 22, 2017)

Big companies like mining too.  There went your GPU.  Anyway, I do not support crypto-currency but I do support a silver/gold standard system.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 22, 2017)

Todderbert said:


> Anyway, I do not support crypto-currency but I do support a silver/gold standard system.



I can't eat gold, burn it to make heat and it makes for an awful building material. What good then is gold?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jul 22, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> I can't eat gold, burn it to make heat and it makes for an awful building material. What good then is gold?


It's pretty good at being conductive


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## FAST6191 (Jul 22, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's pretty good at being conductive


Not really. Copper is better and considerably less dense. Gold just does not corrode that easily so it is OK for coating connectors.

I will give that unlike diamonds and the purity fetish there it is not without practical uses, however they are not so many. It is harder to imagine what it might be used for were it as common as brick and steel but its mechanical properties are known and they are not great.


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## Todderbert (Jul 22, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Not really. Copper is better and considerably less dense. Gold just does not corrode that easily so it is OK for coating connectors.
> 
> I will give that unlike diamonds and the purity fetish there it is not without practical uses, however they are not so many. It is harder to imagine what it might be used for were it as common as brick and steel but its mechanical properties are known and they are not great.



I'm not sure but it sure looks good sitting there doing nothing.

The James Webb telescope utilized a few ounces of the stuff on its mirrors to help with IR sensitivty.  Science applications abound..but mainly its for show(ask my wife) and investment.   Oh and Gold is that "forever" metal.  I just love when they pull gold coins out of the ocean looking brand new after sitting in salt water for three hundred plus years.


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## Piluvr (Jul 22, 2017)

gtx 760 for 90 bucks. Should I buy?


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## Yil (Jul 23, 2017)

Todderbert said:


> Big companies like mining too.  There went your GPU.  Anyway, I do not support crypto-currency but I do support a silver/gold standard system.


This is the exact reason everyone is so pissed. Not only that, some company pair 8 cards with one i3 on PCIe * 1.


TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's pretty good at being conductive


And anti-corrosion. Those things can survive almost any non-synthetic acid. The best common material is silver for conductor.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Todderbert said:


> I'm not sure but it sure looks good sitting there doing nothing.
> 
> The James Webb telescope utilized a few ounces of the stuff on its mirrors to help with IR sensitivty.  Science applications abound..but mainly its for show(ask my wife) and investment.   Oh and Gold is that "forever" metal.  I just love when they pull gold coins out of the ocean looking brand new after sitting in salt water for three hundred plus years.



I wonder if they can survive a minute of low velocity proton beam.


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## mgrev (Jul 23, 2017)

Armadillo said:


> Not sure if serious. 1080ti is a 250W card, you can't seriously expect it to end up in a tablet/android box.


Portable 2000$ 5 second-toaster


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## Yil (Jul 23, 2017)

mgrev said:


> Portable 2000$ 5 second-toaster


But I can afford a laptop with 1080 for tha price.


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## atomsk (Jul 24, 2017)

SonyUSA said:


> Following recent crypto-currency news, the popular currency known as Ethereum has been driving up GPU prices and demolishing availability, has been hacked. An estimated 153,000 "Ether" has been stolen, with estimates at a value of 32.6 million US dollars.
> 
> "The initWallet function should have been marked internal, but was instead not marked. Unmarked functions default to public in Solidity, so anyone can call that function and reinitialize the wallet to be under their control"
> 
> ...



Wouldn't particularly call it that much of a hack. So many things wrong with the person who fell for a phishing scam and using a bad password. This is why you use a password manager either (offline/online).


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## FAST6191 (Jul 24, 2017)

atomsk said:


> Wouldn't particularly call it that much of a hack. So many things wrong with the person who fell for a phishing scam and using a bad password. This is why you use a password manager either (offline/online).


I read the report. Did not seem like a phishing (spear or otherwise) scam was involved.
This appeared to be a developers did not fully understand their compiler/framework and (hopefully) unintentionally introduced a bug which got found and exploited. You would struggle to get a more classic example of a hack than that.


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## Unia4L (Jul 24, 2017)

I was right, so were half of the Bitcoin community, we all knew it was exploitable, but we did not know how.


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## Slartibartfast42 (Jul 25, 2017)

Just because a wallet was hacked doesn't make the currency worthless. Even more importantly, even if the currency became worthless, it doesn't mean a dump of GPUs.That's ridiculous. The owners of the GPUs will just mine some other cryptocurrency. There's an unlimited amount of crypto currencies. All it takes for any one to become valuable is for people to agree on which one. That's it. Then they'd be back in business.


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## Yil (Jul 25, 2017)

@FAST6191 Actually Chinese govervment will punish it legally since it involves untrackable movement of currency, commonly related to corruption. And China is responsible for over 60% of mining and transfer.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 25, 2017)

Yil said:


> @FAST6191 Actually Chinese govervment will punish it legally since it involves untrackable movement of currency, commonly related to corruption. And China is responsible for over 60% of mining and transfer.


I am sure some third world totalitarian shithole banned it for similar reasons. I agree from a systems perspective that China doing whatever is an interesting concept, if for no other reason than as you say the volume of mining and transfer attributable to those within their borders. With that said though it is China, we can go two ways from here and 1) look at all the ridiculous things banned by them (more recently I suppose we have that Winnie the Pooh film, not because of any vaguely "it is pro Tibet" thing like many in the past but because some outside people posted some silly images) or 2) how free in general the country is (hint: it isn't).
Come back when there is a widespread or series of independent movements in Europe, the US, the (former) British commonwealth, South Korea and such.


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## Yil (Jul 25, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> I am sure some third world totalitarian shithole banned it for similar reasons. I agree from a systems perspective that China doing whatever is an interesting concept, if for no other reason than as you say the volume of mining and transfer attributable to those within their borders. With that said though it is China, we can go two ways from here and 1) look at all the ridiculous things banned by them (more recently I suppose we have that Winnie the Pooh film, not because of any vaguely "it is pro Tibet" thing like many in the past but because some outside people posted some silly images) or 2) how free in general the country is (hint: it isn't).
> Come back when there is a widespread or series of independent movements in Europe, the US, the (former) British commonwealth, South Korea and such.


True, but the government's capacity for genocide means we don't have to worry as much about safety.
And 1) China could actually be involved in this event, or even the one managing it. It could be for collecting evidence. And belueve it or not the end of a great chain of events could impact US economy in turn the rest of the world.
2) The transfer could be a major contributer to flucuation on cryptocurrency, and not by mining. An average mayor have access to between two million to 150 million dollars worth of corruption related wealth, approprited from taxes.


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