# Neimod has full kernel control from an unmodified 3DS



## heartgold (Dec 30, 2012)

I thought this is news worthy and trigger some interest and hype for who don't visit the 3DS hacking threads much. This is taken from a chatlog.


> [07:51:56] <@neimod> full control of the 3ds in kernel mode (arm9 & arm11) from an unmodified 3ds :]
> [07:53:03] <EdTheNerd> HHNNNNGGGGG
> [07:53:05] <@neimod> the sky is the limit!
> [07:53:17] <EdTheNerd> Gib romz plox
> ...


 
Before people scream for proof, SifJar has always given us reliable chatlog texts in the past.


SifJar said:


> If anyone values my word at all, I can vouch for the authenticity of the chat log.


 
So interesting, region lock can be removed easily and able to play roms according to neimod. But they won't release the latter. 

Update: Officially confirmed on the 3Dbrew main page -


> 29 December 12 Neimod has gained full kernel control from an unmodified 3DS


http://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Main_Page


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## Chary (Dec 30, 2012)

This is good news.
Actually, it's great news.


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## gamefan5 (Dec 30, 2012)

If it's that vulnerable and this exploit is easy to patch, then, by all means, do not release the hack.


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## dalc789 (Dec 30, 2012)

Awesome news.


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## shakirmoledina (Dec 30, 2012)

From Nintendo: We know


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## pokefloote (Dec 30, 2012)

Brb, currently pissing myself like an excited dog.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Full kernel control would mean that he may be able to blow the 3DS wide open if he wanted to.
But it seems like he wants to create a controlled 3DS homebrew scene that doesn't allow for piracy, and requires an exploit to keep damage down.

There's always the possibility though that whatever exploit neimod releases, someone may reverse engineer it in some way anyway. Who knows what will develop.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

Who really cares if they have kernel access if they're unwilling to share their research with others? Long story short, they have a lot of gear that's unavailable to the average mortal or even most hackers, and while I'll admit that they owe it all to hard work, their hard work is going straight to their drawers, and that's not necessarily beneficial.

Sharing such information is a double-edged sword, yes - allowing kernel access to anyone does lead to warez loaders, but at the same time, it also leads to homebrew superior in every way to usermode homebrew as well as custom firmwares greatly surpassing original firmware features-wise - we've experienced that first-hand on the PSP.

Not to look far for such "improved" functionality, the PSP's web browser was useless in OFW, but with HighMemoryMod, it was acceptable to say the least. Music player? Works at least two, three times longer with downclocked CPU. Bored with XMB? There's dozens of themes to choose from. File browsers with total access to all FLASH paritions (except the hardware-locked one, god knows what that's for...) and the memory stick? Not a problem. Damn, there's even a plugin allowing for stereoscopic 3D.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Who really cares if they have kernel access if they're unwilling to share their research with others? Long story short, they have a lot of gear that's unavailable to the average mortal or even most hackers, and while I'll admit that they owe it all to hard work, their hard work is going straight to their drawers, and that's not necessarily beneficial.
> 
> Sharing such information is a double-edged sword, yes - allowing kernel access to anyone does lead to warez loaders, but at the same time, it also leads to homebrew superior in every way to usermode homebrew as well as custom firmwares greatly surpassing original firmware features-wise - we've experienced that first-hand on the PSP.


 
I believe their take on it is that they don't want the 3DS to become a hotspot for piracy, at least not this early into the system's life cycle since it is not even 2 years old yet.
Maybe down the line we will see truly uninhibited 3DS exploitation, but for the time being that is very selfish of the hacking community to make it possible for developer's hard work to be easily pirated.


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## Snailface (Dec 30, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> If it's that vulnerable and this exploit is easy to patch, then, by all means, do not release the hack.


I don't see anything wrong with releasing it sooner rather than later. I'd be more than content and patient with just a spinning cube homebrew until proper dev tools can be written to take full advantage of an open system.

People say the exploits can't be patched while unreleased, but that simply isn't true. If Nintendo found a way to fortify and improve their savegame hash-checking, for instance, they could block the exploit without knowing exactly what game its on or exactly how it works.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> I believe their take on it is that they don't want the 3DS to become a hotspot for piracy, at least not this early into the system's life cycle since it is not even 2 years old yet.
> Maybe down the line we will see truly uninhibited 3DS exploitation, but for the time being that is very selfish of the hacking community to make it possible for developer's hard work to be easily pirated.


Piracy has always been around - piracy is older than computer science itself, and it's often a necessary evil that we must deal with in order to achieve greater heights. It's an unfortunate consequence, but it should not be treated as an inhibitor of progress.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Snailface said:


> I don't see anything wrong with releasing it sooner rather than later. I'd be more than content and patient with just spinning cube homebrew until proper dev tools can be written to take full advantage of an open system.
> 
> People say the exploits can't be patched while unreleased, but that simply isn't true. If Nintendo found a way to fortify and improve their savegame hash-checking, for instance, they could block the exploit without knowing exactly what game its on or exactly how it works.


On that basis alone, anybody who is interested in exploiting their 3DS systems now, need to be patient, and turn off the wireless switch altogether.
What they have may be of no use if Nintendo can sneak any silent updates onto the 3DS. Even something like a blacklist or hidden extra-data doesn't necessarily need a system reboot or installation process.


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## gamefan5 (Dec 30, 2012)

Snailface said:


> I don't see anything wrong with releasing it sooner rather than later. I'd be more than content and patient with just spinning cube homebrew until proper dev tools can be written to take full advantage of an open system.
> 
> People say the exploits can't be patched while unreleased, but that simply isn't true. If Nintendo found a way to fortify and improve their savegame hash-checking, for instance, they could block the exploit without knowing exactly what game its on or exactly how it works.


Well, The hackers doesn't want to take any risks and I agree with them.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> On that basis alone, anybody who is interested in exploiting their 3DS systems now, need to be patient, and turn off the wireless switch altogether.
> What they have may be of no use if Nintendo can sneak any silent updates onto the 3DS. Even something like a blacklist or hidden extra-data doesn't necessarily need a system reboot or installation process.


Nintendo cannot force an update on the user, it's just a notification box - a minor annoyance at best in comparison to all the benefits an exploit would give. I don't see an issue in clicking "No." every now and then as long as I can use "NextGen Homebrew".


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Piracy has always been around - piracy is older than computer science itself, and it's often a necessary evil that we must deal with in order to achieve greater heights. It's an unfortunate consequence, but it should not be treated as an inhibitor of progress.


This is entirely true, piracy is bound to happen.
But I imagine how neimod feels, in the pursuit of seeking to run unsigned code, is that he wants to take actions to prevent piracy from happening.
Maybe it's a moral viewpoint or some other personal reason, but the 3DS has a good life ahead of it right now and progress can always wait until a bit later in the 3DS's lifespan. For it to face serious piracy issues now would not be good for the system.

Where a few might pursue running some homebrew, where many developers may lose sales to piracy, it would be selfish of the homebrew scene, do you know what I mean?


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> This is entirely true, piracy is bound to happen.
> But I imagine how neimod feels, in the pursuit of seeking to run unsigned code, is that he wants to take actions to prevent piracy from happening.
> Maybe it's a moral viewpoint or some other personal reason, but the 3DS has a good life ahead of it right now and progress can always wait until a bit later in the 3DS's lifespan. For it to face serious piracy issues now would not be good for the system.
> 
> Where a few might pursue running some homebrew, where many developers may lose sales to piracy, it would be selfish of the homebrew scene, do you know what I mean?


With the recent quote it seems more like bragging rights to me. I won't question his skill, by no means, but his words were douchey at best. This reminds me about the first time the PSP Go was running 6.xx Custom Firmware - the message that was sent together with a screenshot proving that it was achieved said something along the lines of "We hacked the PSP Go, we're not releasing the hack, the Go won't ever be hacked" or something like that. What's the point of doing that - rubbing your success into someone's face? Not cool.


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## Snailface (Dec 30, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> Well, The hackers doesn't want to take any risks and I agree with them.


There are risks if they release tomorrow and risks if they release 6 months from now. In either event, the exploit will be patched within days. In the 6 month time frame however, there is the added risk of a preventative patch while waiting. This actually happened to the second wave of DSi savegame exploits yellows8 was primed to release in 2011. (they were still useful actually, but only in the unlikely event one already owned the game)

And yes people can protect themselves by waiting with their wifi kept off, but very few will do this, especially if they just have one system.


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## SifJar (Dec 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Long story short, they have a lot of gear that's unavailable to the average mortal or even most hackers.


This is true of neimod, but not yellows8. Yellows8 has no additional hardware, just a 3DS. He doesn't even use the commercial disassembler IDA Pro, he uses instead the free GNU tool objdump. As far as I can tell, there's nothing he's using that anyone with a 3DS couldn't use without additional cost. And he's managed plenty of impressive things.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

SifJar said:


> This is true of neimod, but not yellows8. Yellows8 has no additional hardware, just a 3DS. He doesn't even use the commercial disassembler IDA Pro, he uses instead the free GNU tool objdump. As far as I can tell, there's nothing he's using that anyone with a 3DS couldn't use without additional cost. And he's managed plenty of impressive things.


I was talking about neimod - that guy appears to have immense assets behind him compared to your average hacker. 

Also, just before someone accuses me of it, I'm not upset about their approach - it's their hacks so they can do whatever they like with them, I merely dislike it when people are "elitist" only for the sake of rubbing something in someone else's face. If you made a personal achievement that you're proud of, that's great. If you know that achievement is going to be a cocktease for a good portion of the globe though, you don't have to gloat about it.


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## Mirby (Dec 30, 2012)

I can see the viewpoint of holding onto it to prevent the 3DS from being killed by piracy.

After all, that's what happened with the PSP. It's also a huge part of the reason that Type-0 will most likely never be localized... most of SE's PSP titles were heavily pirated, causing a loss in sales. Why release something that will most likely suffer the same fate?

I admit to pirating many things in my time, but I also can see the damage it can do. Not to mention that, as was mentioned above, the 3DS is still young. There's still plenty of greatness ahead of it. It's not really rubbing work in one's face to hold onto this hack, not at all. Given the circumstances, it's more likely neimod is holding onto it to prevent the 3DS from suffering the same fate as the PSP.

Honestly, I don't know why one would instantly assume malice from withholding the hack when there's quite a few other, less selfish reasons for doing so.

That being said, I am happy to hear this.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

Mirby said:


> I can see the viewpoint of holding onto it to prevent the 3DS from being killed by piracy.
> 
> After all, that's what happened with the PSP. It's also a huge part of the reason that Type-0 will most likely never be localized... most of SE's PSP titles were heavily pirated, causing a loss in sales. Why release something that will most likely suffer the same fate?


PSP games never sold well, and if your analogy was correct, the DS wouldn't have been the best selling handheld console in the world. Saying that piracy makes or breaks a system is ludicrous - it's been proved time and time again that pirates are an incredibly small fraction of the overall userbase. Don't believe me? Check Downloads vs. Purchases statistics of Nintendo DS software - sales are expotentially larger than downloads despite the fact that piracy on the DS is idiot-proof. That, and people often download the same ROM several times, so the downloads are greatly overblown in comparison to purchases which are far more accurate.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> PSP games never sold well, and if your analogy was correct, the DS wouldn't have been the best selling handheld console in the world. Saying that piracy makes or breaks a system is ludicrous - it's been proved time and time again that pirates are an incredibly small fraction of the overall userbase. Don't believe me? Check Downloads vs. Purchases statistics of Nintendo DS software - sales are expotentially larger than downloads despite the fact that piracy on the DS is idiot-proof. That, and people often download the same ROM several times, so the downloads are greatly overblown in comparison to purchases which are far more accurate.


I think the real issue here is the perception of piracy. Consumers and business folk may share the same points of view and react the same ways.
That alone could result in titles never being developed for the 3DS, if it suddenly got designated as a high risk platform.


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## heartgold (Dec 30, 2012)

So we have advanced further than the DSi scene.  With kernel access, you have control of the whole system literally.

I bet they will release a homebrew only loader soon.


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## Coto (Dec 30, 2012)

3ds stay unhacked = moar good games

3ds hacked = psp wanabee (dead and almost no support or poor support)

So til 2015-2016 plz 3DS remain unhacked


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

Coto said:


> 3ds stay unhacked = moar good games
> 
> 3ds hacked = psp wanabee (dead and almost no support or poor support)
> 
> So til 2015-2016 plz 3DS remain unhacked


Since when did the PSP have poor support? It has a stellar library of games - if you claim it doesn't, you're merely unfamiliar with it.


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## rondoh70 (Dec 30, 2012)

What would be nice is if they did the same thing as they did with the wii-u. Make a homebrew channel but restrict the installment of cios.


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## Coto (Dec 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Since when did the PSP have poor support? It has a stellar library of games - if you claim it doesn't, you're merely unfamiliar with it.


 
Compared to PS2 it was close to dead. Let`s compare DS against Wii..


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## SickPuppy (Dec 30, 2012)

I just pissed myself. This is great. Wait, elitist bastards? wtf. I just want a homebrew because my cyclo DSi quit working with one of those updates.


edit-
on topic plz, this is not about psp or ps2, not about boosting post count.


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## Rockhoundhigh (Dec 30, 2012)

I actually laughed at the comment about the forums "pissing itself" XD. Anyways, good on him.


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## slingblade1170 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hopefully I'm wrong but I still don't see the 3DS hacked and running roms/homebrew/etc. for a long time or even at all. It's hard to believe someone when they say they hacked something with a high demand at all. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong and we get some 3DS roms running on something soon.


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## chyyran (Dec 30, 2012)

inb4 wellthatescalatedquickly.jpg

Now that they have kernel control, only a matter of time before someone finds a system menu exploit , I just hope neimod shares his work with other members of the scene.

And he's not holding this to prevent piracy. He's holding this because he's an "elitist bastard".

Sure, he says something about a warez loader, but he didn't say "We aren't sharing this because we don't want piracy on the 3DS" or something similar.
"warez loader" can be replaced by anything. He's saying that we won't get the warez loader, because he's kinda pulling a dick move.

[07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything, so kiss that [warez loader/custom firmware/awesome homebrew] goodbye

Eh, maybe I'm overanalyzing.

Also, a "piracy free" exploit is nigh impossible. Someone, somewhere, will find a way to enable piracy if homebrew is enabled. This is a given.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

Coto said:


> Compared to PS2 it was close to dead. Let`s compare DS against Wii..


The DS had hundreds of good games hidden somewhere under the stack of thousands of shovelware and the Wii had... uhm... 20 overall great titles? I'm not even kidding_. That said_, out of "the big three" it was the best "party" console available, and that's its main use for me.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Coto said:


> 3ds stay unhacked = moar good games
> 
> 3ds hacked = psp wanabee (dead and almost no support or poor support)
> 
> So til 2015-2016 plz 3DS remain unhacked


Although I feel 3DS being hacked this early on does have implications, I don't think they're nearly as severe as a black and white situation like that.

I'm really wondering how much of an impact it could have on the eShop download service, which has many exclusive (and really worthwhile) titles.


SickPuppy said:


> I just pissed myself. This is great. Wait, elitist bastards? wtf. I just want a homebrew because my cyclo DSi quit working with one of those updates.
> 
> 
> edit-
> on topic plz, this is not about psp or ps2, not about boosting post count.


It bears some merit talking about past examples of exploited consoles, and their fates.
The PS2 was hacked and was seriously successful, even with people modding PS2s or using swap-discs to get away with stuff.
The PSP was hacked but I think floundered for other reasons. Arguably the only reason the system continued to sell was because of the fact it was hacked. If the PS Vita was hacked the same way the PSP was, hardware sales might shoot up.


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## Coto (Dec 30, 2012)

Na, 3DS stay unhacked please. At least a few years


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## totalnoob617 (Dec 30, 2012)

can everyone please stfu with the "piwacy" bs , fact: wii was most exploited system ever ,you know how many wii's were exploited with hbc ,about 1%
even famicom dd allowed "piwacy"out of the box ,you  could go to stores and copy games from kiosk systems,guess what? nintendo survived


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## Fear Zoa (Dec 30, 2012)

totalnoob617 said:


> can everyone please stfu with the "piwacy" bs , fact: wii was most exploited system ever ,you know how many wii's were exploited with hbc ,about 1%
> even famicom dd allowed "piwacy"out of the box ,you could go to stores and copy games from kiosk systems,guess what? nintendo survived


I'd argue that the psp was the most exploited system ever, it sure as hell was hacked more. 

As for the 3ds progress, Its interesting to watch. Hopefully if/when it takes off it doesn't head the same direction as the ps3 scene (which has as of late been doing much better)


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## zanfire (Dec 30, 2012)

totalnoob617 said:


> can everyone please stfu with the "piwacy" bs , fact: wii was most exploited system ever ,you know how many wii's were exploited with hbc ,about 1%
> even famicom dd allowed "piwacy"out of the box ,you could go to stores and copy games from kiosk systems,guess what? nintendo survived


 
iirc the wii is either the second or highest selling console of all time? It made nintendo print their own money and thing was cake to hack...hell the DS which was supported with one of the best libraries that I know of and sold like crack, but was easier to "hack" and get games on than even psp.


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## Coto (Dec 30, 2012)

totalnoob617 said:


> can everyone please stfu with the "piwacy" bs , fact: wii was most exploited system ever ,you know how many wii's were exploited with hbc ,about 1%
> even famicom dd allowed "piwacy"out of the box ,you could go to stores and copy games from kiosk systems,guess what? nintendo survived


 
Nintendo is better than sony at advertisement


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## Zarcon (Dec 30, 2012)

Why does anyone ever say/show that they accomplished something?
Because that's just what people do.
And something said on IRC is far from bragging to everyone just to be a dick.

@Punyman: The elitist remark seems more like a sarcastic statement on what people accuse them of being.

Personally I'd rather there not be anything that can lead to piracy made public.
At the very least not yet.
Piracy =/= lost sales...but it does make publishers wary.
Doesn't matter how good a game is/will be if a publisher wimps out due to perceived piracy problems.
There are already so many things that can run homebrew or provide an open-ish platform to develop for, I'm really in no rush for more at the risk of publishers using piracy as an excuse.


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## Rydian (Dec 30, 2012)

I agree with Zarcon on the "there's other things you can run homebrew on" bit.  We just need some _supported_ high-spec android devices *with some goddamned controls*... that don't bog themselves down (and suck battery life) with cell parts/data.



Coto said:


> Compared to PS2 it was close to dead. Let`s compare DS against Wii..


Compared to the PS2, the Gamecube sucked.
Compared to the PS2, the Wii sucks.
Compared to the PS2, the Gameboy Color pisses itself in a nightmare of how it will never be that grand.

Fucking _duh_ the PSP looks bad if you compare it to the glory of the PS2.


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## chyyran (Dec 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I agree with Zarcon on the "there's other things you can run homebrew on" bit. We just need some _supported_ high-spec android devices *with some goddamned controls*... that don't bog themselves down (and suck battery life) with cell parts/data.
> 
> Compared to the PS2, the Gamecube sucked.
> Compared to the PS2, the Wii sucks.
> ...


 
VITA ANDROID GO!
This would single-handedly justify the VIta's current price.
/endofftopic


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I agree with Zarcon on the "there's other things you can run homebrew on" bit. We just need some _supported_ high-spec android devices *with some goddamned controls*... that don't bog themselves down (and suck battery life) with cell parts/data.


That's a lot of why the 3DS has so much damned appeal in getting exploited now.
It has two screens, full gyroscopic and accelerometer based motion controls, one inner and two outer cameras, an SD slot, a 3D parallax barrier display, a resistive touch screen, multiple buttons, a clamshell design, etc.

This is in contrast to the DS which did not have motion controls without an added accessory, no cameras or SD slot, less processing power as well.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Dec 30, 2012)

If the 3DS gets hacked... 

I would like to see some 3D homebrew, like a 2600 emulator where the graphics kind of pop up off the screen. It sounds weird but I bet it would be pretty cool.


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## Rydian (Dec 30, 2012)

Holy crap if Vita got a full official android install (with flashable ROMs and hardware acceleration, fuck the PS3's gimped Linux) I'd buy one in a heartbeat.  I would drive out to Walmart at 3 AM to get one the moment it happened.

EDIT: Today's late Rydian post is brought to you by the letter Q!


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## Nah3DS (Dec 30, 2012)

GBATEMP BLOWS!!!


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## RodrigoDavy (Dec 30, 2012)

Gbatemp and its double standard.

In a Vita thread: "Can we just stop comparing the Vita with the 3DS every freaking time?"
In a 3DS thread: "Ow, that's a perfect place to bring up the Vita!"


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## Coto (Dec 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I agree with Zarcon on the "there's other things you can run homebrew on" bit. We just need some _supported_ high-spec android devices *with some goddamned controls*... that don't bog themselves down (and suck battery life) with cell parts/data.
> 
> Compared to the PS2, the Gamecube sucked.
> Compared to the PS2, the Wii sucks.
> ...


 
Well PSP was supposed to be on par with PS2 because about the same thing with DS on par with Wii. That is every handheld/home consoles companies wanting their share on money / market.

I'm not talking about numbers on sales...

And then compare the support each company gave to them, and 3rd developers. How DS being hardware-wise weaker than PSP, outsold it? Advertisement, market strategies and lastly, price.

While PSP relied on exclusives. If you're smart enough, then see what joining exclusives with piracy on a relatively new/slow platform , means to you... you'll realize that PSP being a relatively new handheld released by Sony (being the same thing in the handheld gaming world), would rely on exclusives and little 3rd party support...

PSP being even better than DS at hardware levels, was worse advertised and relied on slow proyects what would emerge much less often than any DS proyects would do...

Slow proyects + piracy = 3rd party/main parties lose interest on the hardware platform = dead platform

my 2 cents

sry, english is not my main language


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## chavosaur (Dec 30, 2012)

Neimod may be the one figuring out how to do all these things, but that doesn't mean other hackers can't take what he's done and improve on it (if you consider Piracy an improvement anyway…)
At least that's what I think. Not entirely sure how the whole hacking process works anyway.


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## RodrigoDavy (Dec 30, 2012)

Coto said:


> Well PSP was supposed to be on par with PS2 because about the same thing with DS on par with Wii. That is every handheld/home consoles companies wanting their share on money / market.


 
The DS was never meant to be on pair with the Wii. The 3DS might be close to being on pair with the Wii, but the DS was just slightly superior then the N64.



> Slow proyects + piracy = 3rd party/main parties lose interest on the hardware platform = dead platform


 
I am not even going to argue about piracy. The PSP was never dead, it sold quite well actually. I don't know about its library, I personally prefer innovation over graphics and the DS is more of my taste, but even I must admit the PSP was a good competitor.


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## Luckkill4u (Dec 30, 2012)

Dual boot android anybody?


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## Zetta_x (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> Dual boot android anybody?


 
Dat Signature. It's like an unspoken rule that your posts cannot be a sixth of the size of your signature.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Dat Signature. It's like an unspoken rule that your posts cannot be a sixth of the size of your signature.


Not really on topic but I'm sure he spoilered that text to try and save space, just to have an opposite effect.

Dual booting android on the 3DS? I wouldn't count on it, android devices operate on the assumption of not developing optimally or to the same standards, so cross platform or open source is easier, or so that multi-tasking is a possibility.
The 3DS doesn't have nearly the processing power that an android device requires. When a 3DS runs a game, it runs as little else as possible.


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## Luckkill4u (Dec 30, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Dat Signature. It's like an unspoken rule that your posts cannot be a sixth of the size of your signature.


Shhhh don't speak of it!!!! But then again isnt staying on topic written in the rules?



RupeeClock said:


> Not really on topic but I'm sure he spoilered that text to try and save space, just to have an opposite effect.
> 
> Dual booting android on the 3DS? I wouldn't count on it, android devices operate on the assumption of not developing optimally or to the same standards, so cross platform or open source is easier, or so that multi-tasking is a possibility.
> The 3DS doesn't have nearly the processing power that an android device requires. When a 3DS runs a game, it runs as little else as possible.


Android was built for arm based cpu's though but if the SoC does get decapped the "possibilities could be endless.


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## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

Coto said:


> Well PSP was supposed to be on par with PS2 because about the same thing with DS on par with Wii. That is every handheld/home consoles companies wanting their share on money / market.
> 
> I'm not talking about numbers on sales...
> 
> ...


What the fuck is this fuckery you are spouting?

Piracy did kill the PSP in my opinion, I used to be a proud PSP pirate 2008-2012. That's beside th point.

To say the PSP was on par with PS2 and DS was with Wii is like saying apples are on par with shit and oranges are on par with tape worms.

Furthermore, I don't see many third party games for teh DS, and if there are, they aren't good. Still amazes me how the DS has so many sells, I have one and I can say that about 20-25 games on DS are good the rest are shit.

The only reasons why the DS and 3DS have been succeeding is because they're cheaper and new/was new at the time and someone wanted something new for less. Its sad actually to see the PSP and Vita get totalled...they're good systems. Perhaps being too good is what killed/is killing the sales.


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## Luckkill4u (Dec 30, 2012)

tysonrss said:


> What the fuck is this fuckery you are spouting?
> 
> Piracy did kill the PSP in my opinion, I used to be a proud PSP pirate 2008-2012. That's beside th point.
> 
> ...


 
IMO DS and 3DS had better sales due to smarter marketing. This is where the PSP failed. PSP/PS2/Ps3/DS/3DS/Wii all had pirating and homebrew. Why? Because the devices are popular. The more popular the device causes hackers to pay more attention to that specific device. One exploits are made homebrew/pirating/emulators/ect become "new" features for this device which are usually 100% free. Exploits make Consoles and handheld more popular. If that is so what else makes devices more popular? I know! Innovations (Example: 2 screens, touch screens, motion controls,  ect), good games (AAA games like Mass Effect, CoD, Halo, Uncharted, Little big plant and the list goes on.), and non aging hardware for example look at how the Xbox 360 Developed through the years from release date to today. In my opinion the PSP was supposed to die when it did and the Vita will die soon too until better games roll out or the damn device gets hacked and when it does im buying a Vita.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 30, 2012)

'Cause everybody knows that the games you like are the only good games, and it's not like people have differing opinions, right?


----------



## Zarcon (Dec 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> 'Cause everybody knows that the games you like are the only good games, and it's not like people have differing opinions, right?


Opinions?
Everything I like is factually good and everything I hate is factually bad.
(/everyarguementever)


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> 'Cause everybody knows that the games you like are the only good games, and it's not like people have differing opinions, right?


I think you would agree with me if I named the games, but I don't feel like it. The games used the hardware to its fullest extent and produces the best graphics possible for the system. So yeah, I'd reckon to say those games are the best DS games. No one plays Hello Kitty meets Barbie Paradise.


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Dec 30, 2012)

tysonrss said:


> Perhaps [the Vita] being too good is what killed/is killing the sales.


lol, makes sense.


----------



## DrOctapu (Dec 30, 2012)

Coto said:


> 3ds stay unhacked = moar good games
> 
> 3ds hacked = psp wanabee (dead and almost no support or poor support)
> 
> So til 2015-2016 plz 3DS remain unhacked


Yes, take the advice of the man who can't spell wannabe and delete all of your work this instant, neimod. This guy's clearly an expert on the ethics of console hacking.


----------



## Luckkill4u (Dec 30, 2012)

Also.....



heartgold said:


> [07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything,...


 
So why are we helping you fund the decapping of the 3DS SoC?


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> Also.....
> 
> 
> 
> So why are we helping you fund the decapping of the 3DS SoC?


What is this shit?


----------



## Rydian (Dec 30, 2012)

tysonrss said:


> I think you would agree with me if I named the games, but I don't feel like it. The games used the hardware to its fullest extent and produces the best graphics possible for the system. So yeah, I'd reckon to say those games are the best DS games. No one plays Hello Kitty meets Barbie Paradise.


Contact didn't push the hardware, and I happily beat it.

Tetris DS didn't push the hardware and was all sprite-based things, and I've put hours into the various modes.

etc.


----------



## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> Also.....
> 
> 
> 
> So why are we helping you fund the decapping of the 3DS SoC?


He's joking, I'm sure.


----------



## Snailface (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> Also.....
> 
> 
> 
> So why are we helping you fund the decapping of the 3DS SoC?


Way to take that statement out of context and not read the sarcasm.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 30, 2012)

Also it could be read as a hint of "I prefer not to share stuff", where on the other hand the decap info was specifically listed as being available to donators, and I don't think these guys are going to go back on their word (what little they say publicly is generally serious).


----------



## Snailface (Dec 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Also it could be read as a hint of "I prefer not to share stuff", where on the other hand the decap info was specifically listed as being available to donators, and I don't think these guys are going to go back on their word (what little they say publicly is generally serious).


Given the way Luckill4u posted that line all by itself I don't know how anybody could read it as anything else but "we're not going to share-- f off". But reading the full conversation it almost certainly looks like they plan on sharing the hack. Anyways, yellows8 is a part of team twizzers who have shared pretty much everything they discover, so that looks good for our chances as well.


----------



## SifJar (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> Also.....
> 
> 
> 
> So why are we helping you fund the decapping of the 3DS SoC?


neimod isn't behind the decapping fundraiser for a start.


----------



## Walker D (Dec 30, 2012)

<snip>


hehe ..maybe it gets public soon who knows ..would make this forums a wild place


----------



## JoostinOnline (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> So why are we helping you fund the decapping of the 3DS SoC?


That's a reference to the IRC channel topic.  It's "Home of the elitist bastards who never share anything."


----------



## spinal_cord (Dec 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Nintendo cannot force an update on the user, it's just a notification box - a minor annoyance at best in comparison to all the benefits an exploit would give. I don't see an issue in clicking "No." every now and then as long as I can use "NextGen Homebrew".


 
Really? The last few updates I had notified me AFTER the update was installed, along the lines of "please reset to complete update"...


----------



## Rydian (Dec 30, 2012)

spinal_cord said:


> Really? The last few updates I had notified me AFTER the update was installed, along the lines of "please reset to complete update"...


I don't have a 3DS myself, but I've never seen that unless automatically updating is on.

Kind of like how Windows can install updates automatically, but not by force, only if the setting is on.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 30, 2012)

I don't need a fucking warez loader, really. All I want is the stupid region lock to go away.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 30, 2012)

spinal_cord said:


> Really? The last few updates I had notified me AFTER the update was installed, along the lines of "please reset to complete update"...


well I get a box every time with "the download is complete do you want to install the update?".


----------



## aphirst (Dec 30, 2012)

Any company that cannot profit in a modern world, with piracy being as trivial as it is, does not deserve to still be doing business, and certainly doesn't deserve "protection" from self-styled ethical hackers.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 30, 2012)

When this hack get's out someone will find a way to play 3ds roms on it, so Neimod trying to prevent this is pointless. Hopefully a nice CFW that is region free and can play roms from the sd card will come from this, that way we won't get any rom cart company's trying to profit from us.


----------



## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Chaossaturn said:


> When this hack get's out someone will find a way to play 3ds roms on it, so Neimod trying to prevent this is pointless. Hopefully a nice CFW that is region free and can play roms from the sd card will come from this, that way we won't get any rom cart company's trying to profit from us.


I guarantee you, Datel/Codejunkies will still release something like a cheat device or save manager.
That's just what they do.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 30, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> I guarantee you, Datel/Codejunkies will still release something like a cheat device or save manager.
> That's just what they do.


 
Yep you're probably right and that's why I think it would be better for Neimod to release the full kernel hack uncensored; because if he releases it and it can only play homebrew the most likely people to reverse engineer it will be the people looking to make money (to begin with) so the rom cart companies, the cheat device guys, etc. However if he releases it uncensored, yes people will play 3ds roms but the rom cart companies won't be making money from it, so really it's a lesser evil just to let it out uncensored.


----------



## Vappy (Dec 30, 2012)

Chaossaturn said:


> so Neimod trying to prevent this is pointless.


 
I wouldn't say it's pointless. Just because it's inevitable that it'll be cracked doesn't mean he should embrace having a hand in enabling piracy.

If anything, I hope that they find a way to keep piracy at bay for a good while longer. I like buying games and paying the developers for their work, but when the option is there to get the games for free it's difficult to resist.


----------



## RupeeClock (Dec 30, 2012)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yep you're probably right and that's why I think it would be better for Neimod to release the full kernel hack uncensored; because if he releases it and it can only play homebrew the most likely people to reverse engineer it will be the people looking to make money (to begin with) so the rom cart companies, the cheat device guys, etc. However if he releases it uncensored, yes people will play 3ds roms but the rom cart companies won't be making money from it, so really it's a lesser evil just to let it out uncensored.


Well what will most likely happen, is whatever Neimod et all release will probably get reverse engineered by somebody.
Could be another hacker who DOES want to enable piracy.
Could be someone in Hong Kong who wants to make the first 3DS flashcart.
It ain't gonna be Datel though because god forbid they actually contribute some R&D to the homebrew scene rather than just use whatever other people figure out.

What I'm curious about now is if any potential homebrew launcher that 3dbrew.org release, will be stored on the 3DS SD card and signed to that system, or actually installed onto the 3DS NAND.


----------



## pasc (Dec 30, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> This is entirely true, piracy is bound to happen.
> But I imagine how neimod feels, in the pursuit of seeking to run unsigned code, is that he wants to take actions to prevent piracy from happening.
> Maybe it's a moral viewpoint or some other personal reason, but the 3DS has a good life ahead of it right now and progress can always wait until a bit later in the 3DS's lifespan. For it to face serious piracy issues now would not be good for the system.
> 
> Where a few might pursue running some homebrew, where many developers may lose sales to piracy, it would be selfish of the homebrew scene, do you know what I mean?


 
Yet I found it funny how the DS had FAR LESS cancelled games than the GBA even thought piracy was around...


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Dec 30, 2012)

How about somebody makes a thread called "Piracy: Yes or no?" and we can just funnel these arguments there.
Quite frankly, I would like to hear about Neimods actual progress.


----------



## jalaneme (Dec 30, 2012)

what a load of rubbish, so they find "someting" and say they will never release it which prooves that they have jack sheet hacked, what a bunch of attention seekers. watch this topic die quickly like always.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Dec 30, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> How about somebody makes a thread called "Piracy: Yes or no?" and we can just funnel these arguments there.
> Quite frankly, I would like to hear about Neimods actual progress.


 
doesn't matter what others think
neimod is in it for the homebrew, hes not doing it for piracy
so no matter if 1 millions noobs go "I'm a tightwad and want hacks"
its for the homebrew community so they have a system where they can make 3D homebrew games and that people can play around with developing little games
if people so badly want hacks get that 2000 donated so the chip can be decapped and then they can look into an emulator


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Dec 30, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> doesn't matter what others think
> neimod is in it for the homebrew, hes not doing it for piracy
> so no matter if 1 millions noobs go "I'm a tightwad and want hacks"
> its for the homebrew community so they have a system where they can make 3D homebrew games and that people can play around with developing little games
> if people so badly want hacks get that 2000 donated so the chip can be decapped and then they can look into an emulator


Of course Neimod won't care about what others think about piracy, and there is nothing wrong with that. He's in a position where he can make his own personal choice about how his work is used.

I just want to hear about the hack, and not inane arguments about piracy and its effects.

Oh, and the PSP. Why is the PSP being mentioned? How more off topic could this possibly get? Next thing we'll be talking about how toilet paper has remained the same throughout history.


----------



## pwsincd (Dec 30, 2012)

Not being knowledgeable enough to know but, if the kernel hack allows full access of the system, wouldn't the fact that the 3DS has a SD slot kinda negate the use of flashcards (eventually)?

I know that suggestion is in keeping with all other "people getting ahead of themselves posts" but it seems like the obvious route to take  for homebrew.


----------



## McHaggis (Dec 30, 2012)

Need to get my 3DS in for repair before the hack is released, or after the hack is released but before Nintendo have a chance to patch it and update my console to the latest firmware.


----------



## Rizsparky (Dec 30, 2012)

pwsincd said:


> Not being knowledgeable enough to know but, if the kernel hack allows full access of the system, wouldn't the fact that the 3DS has a SD slot kinda negate the use of flashcards (eventually)?
> 
> I know that suggestion is in keeping with all other "people getting ahead of themselves posts" but it seems like the obvious route to take  for homebrew.


 
Yeah, something similar to SD card usage on the Wii


----------



## Coto (Dec 30, 2012)

DrOctapu said:


> Yes, take the advice of the man who can't spell wannabe and delete all of your work this instant, neimod. This guy's clearly an expert on the ethics of console hacking.


 

I'm not giving any advice, just an opinion. If you feel emotional about it, go do something better than crying about my english, which is far for perfect.
-
I respect neimod, but the 3DS should stay unhacked for now.


----------



## ferofax (Dec 30, 2012)

Ron said:


> inb4 wellthatescalatedquickly.jpg
> Also, a "piracy free" exploit is nigh impossible. Someone, somewhere, will find a way to enable piracy if homebrew is enabled. This is a given.


DSi would like to say hi. Nobody found a way to pirate DSiware. At least, nobody cared to. Which is good in my book, 'cause I'm also an elitist bastard, lol.


----------



## FAST6191 (Dec 30, 2012)

The (unfounded) bitterness in this thread from all points in the spectrum is at once delicious and cringe inducing.

Still- Datel and similar such companies- those people are actually reasonably well liked among a lot of the "proper" hacker community as they employ a bunch of them in various capacities, do actual research (though occasionally they do owe more than a passing nod to various homebrew communities) and put out tools that most small groups of hackers both find useful and would be extremely hard pressed to replicate (they faked optical media on several occasions which is no trivial feat). Certainly some of their actions may cause eyebrows to be raised on occasion but you would be hard pressed to find anyone the would be hacker community is inclined to take note of that calls them a truly negative force.

SD card launching. Bus speeds aside any medium by which data can be transferred is certainly a viable proposition. Whether it is ultimately useful is an entirely different matter and I can well see homebrew working a treat from one but commercial games needing to be so very heavily patched as to make the effort not really worth it (though I agree similar things were said about the "hundreds of binary hash checks" DS AP method and we all know how that turned out).

Edit: re bog roll staying the same over the years. Ignoring parts of the world that do not use it I can certainly make a case of it changing somewhat without going into the scratchy/layered world by pointing at the stuff I can only describe as resembling greaseproof paper in paper hand towel form, in a similar box no less, that I was greeted with in my youth in trips to the houses of various elderly relatives.


----------



## Qtis (Dec 30, 2012)

Interesting development. I'd get it just for the fact that I wouldn't need another 3DS for possible imports. Oh well..


----------



## Qtis (Dec 30, 2012)

ferofax said:


> DSi would like to say hi. Nobody found a way to pirate DSiware. At least, nobody cared to. Which is good in my book, 'cause I'm also an elitist bastard, lol.


I think the fact that the DSi didn't have any real exclusives that didn't work in DS mode added more to the effort of not needing a DSi exploit. Also DSiware was pretty much a huge black hole with only a couple of close to decent titles.


----------



## pokefloote (Dec 30, 2012)

Neimod only says that "elitist bastard" stuff because a lot of people call him that for no reason, he's poking fun at himself. With every hack rumor, someone says "they don't want to release it, they're keeping it for themselves. how selfish." so he's joking about that now.

So shut up about it unless you guys enjoy self fulfilling prophecies.


----------



## frown (Dec 30, 2012)

Perhaps with kernel access available on the 3DS, an exploit for DSi mode could be found. 
I mean, if anyone still cares about having DSi access in the light of having 3DS access.


----------



## jalaneme (Dec 30, 2012)

McHaggis said:


> Need to get my 3DS in for repair before the hack is released, or after the hack is released but before Nintendo have a chance to patch it and update my console to the latest firmware.


 
that is IF anything gets released at all and it seems unlikely.


----------



## McHaggis (Dec 30, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> that is IF anything gets released at all and it seems unlikely.


With a kernel exploit a release is looking more likely. Yes, it will be fixed but you can't hold onto an exploit forever just because it's fixable.


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

pasc said:


> Yet I found it funny how the DS had FAR LESS cancelled games than the GBA even thought piracy was around...


3DS has plenty of cancelled titles. Which is sad.


----------



## Luckkill4u (Dec 30, 2012)

McHaggis said:


> With a kernel exploit a release is looking more likely. Yes, it will be fixed but you can't hold onto an exploit forever just because it's fixable.


A release would give the ability to other hackers to have a better understanding of the 3DS. It could cause more exploits in the future so a fixable exploit isn't the worst problem yet. Hell nobody knows if this exploit is possible without vast amounts of hardware. Well unless you have a custom ram dumping setup laying around.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Dec 30, 2012)

If they were able to just get region locking disabled and unsigned homebrew code working, then that would make my day. I'd prefer piracy to remain out of the loop for at least a couple more years.


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

Luckkill4u said:


> A release would give the ability to other hackers to have a better understanding of the 3DS. It could cause more exploits in the future so a fixable exploit isn't the worst problem yet. Hell nobody knows if this exploit is possible without vast amounts of hardware. Well unless you have a custom ram dumping setup laying around.


Who gives a damn in the first place, that's what you get when you hack a system, expect other things you don't like(piracy) to surface. That's part of the "system" if you ask me.

You can't have your cake and had it at once, meaning you can't get what YOU want and expect others not to get what they desire, hence the reason why the 3DS will be hacked to play pirated games. It's only a matter of when, pirates will gladly find a way to make it possible.


----------



## VashTS (Dec 30, 2012)

I'm tired of this guy, he reminds me of mathieulh from the ps3 scene.


----------



## virgildraco (Dec 30, 2012)

unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything
So, whats the point of all of this besides knowing that he has done it??


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Dec 30, 2012)

virgildraco said:


> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything
> So, whats the point of all of this besides knowing that he has done it??


 
So we can all hang onto his every word like a dingleberry clings to an unwashed anus.


----------



## EthanObi (Dec 30, 2012)

This thread in summary:
Group A : 3DSHAX?!GIMMENA0
Group B : 3DSHAX?!N0RELEASEPLZ
Group C : FREEPOSTCOUNTS?MEWANT
Group D : 3DS=PSPV2!


----------



## virgildraco (Dec 30, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> So we can all hang onto his every word like a dingleberry clings to an unwashed anus.


SO basically he may or may not have hacked it, still doing all of this for attention


----------



## EthanObi (Dec 30, 2012)

virgildraco said:


> SO basically he may or may not have hacked it, still doing all of this for attention


It's been confirmed hacked, But he's not releasing the exploit


----------



## Devin (Dec 30, 2012)

So has it already been noted that the exploitable game is one that is both in the eShop and on cartridge? Don't have my 3DS handy but what retail games are on the eShop?

Edit: http://www.ign.com/wikis/nintendo-3ds/Retail_Games


----------



## aalokishere (Dec 30, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> So we can all hang onto his every word like a dingleberry clings to an unwashed anus.


Right to the point


----------



## EthanObi (Dec 30, 2012)

Pretty sure SM3DL, MK7 KI:U,PL:MM,NSMB2,KH DDD, And FF:YCA are The games i remember last i got on my 3DS.


----------



## Devin (Dec 30, 2012)

A better analysis would be to figure out what unit he's using. (I believe it's a PAL unit?) See what games are released on that eShop that are also retail, and then cross check all games released before he started talking about his exploit.


----------



## dickfour (Dec 30, 2012)

If I were Neimod I'd sell the hack to Supercard for $20,000


----------



## TyBlood13 (Dec 30, 2012)

Kyouhei said:


> Pretty sure SM3DL, MK7 KI:U,PL:MM,NSMB2,KH DDD, And FF:YCA are The games i remember last i got on my 3DS.


Not KI:U and KHDD
Kid Icarus might never be one as it comes with the stand and I'm pretty Kingdom Hearts isn't, but it does have a demo
EDIT: Why is my "D" a smiling face?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

spinal_cord said:


> Really? The last few updates I had notified me AFTER the update was installed, along the lines of "please reset to complete update"...


Pretty sure that the automatic updates can be disabled - if you do that, it's going to download them regardless and prompt you to accept it rather than update your system automatically.

...While I'm at it, I'd like to say that the controller you have in your signature looks absolutely amazing - that's actually the main reason why I wrote this reply in the first place.


----------



## Devin (Dec 30, 2012)

Pokemon Rumble
PilotWings
Paper Mario: Sticker Star
Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask
Mario Tennis
New Super Mario Bros: 2
Style Boutique

My friend and I have be compiling a list, and these games were on there December 6ish. Anyone know when this whole thing started?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

dickfour said:


> If I were Neimod I'd sell the hack to Supercard for $20,000


That's... not a whole lot of money, all things considered. Add another zero, maybe scratch the "two" and put a bigger digit there - you'd have a better approximation of how much a kernel exploit is worth. Also, a quick summary of this "discovery":

*Neimod and others have kernel access - YAY!*​*




*​*They're not releasing it - Nothing to do here.*​


----------



## Zarcon (Dec 30, 2012)

It's a sad day when so many people take a non-public IRC comment dripping with sarcasm as a serious statement and say they're doing it for attention.

For now, nothing to see here other than the hope that things may start happening soon-ish.
In the mean time, try not to say things that give people more reasons to make fun of GBAtemp.


----------



## totalnoob617 (Dec 30, 2012)

id rather he does sell it to sc team,i dont mind buying a card ,especially one with a great support team behind it and people that are not self righteous dicks about "piwacy" like some were in ps3 scene ,


----------



## shakirmoledina (Dec 30, 2012)

this is the scene, whenever someone wants to release his methods he does so. If he doesn't then another person will do so.


----------



## Snailface (Dec 30, 2012)

People seem to forget that Yellows8 has the exploit too. It would take a decision for both Neimod _and_ Yellows8 to keep the exploit away from the community. This is very unlikely to happen.


----------



## dragonmaster (Dec 30, 2012)

pantience is a virtue i think in 3 months we will have our first release in public ,what i dream is emulators on main screen and also region remove even a custom firmware may be possible


----------



## digipokemaster (Dec 30, 2012)

so from what i understand we might have hacked the 3ds ?if this is true i hope a card will be made soon but im content for now and thank god i have both my 3ds and 3ds xl


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

digipokemaster said:


> so from what i understand we might have hacked the 3ds ?if this is true i hope a card will be made soon but im content for now and thank god i have both my 3ds and 3ds xl


I'm not too sure if God had any hand in this involvement.


----------



## digipokemaster (Dec 30, 2012)

tysonrss said:


> I'm not too sure if God had any hand in this involvement.


i know but i am just being thankful for still having both 3ds


----------



## virgildraco (Dec 30, 2012)

Yellows8 might release the exploit, from what i've been reading here and there he's a big name in the DS scene right?


----------



## heartgold (Dec 30, 2012)

Snailface said:


> People seem to forget that Yellows8 has the exploit too. It would take a decision for both Neimod _and_ Yellows8 to keep the exploit away from the community. This is very unlikely to happen.


 
Yes Yellows8 too. I wonder who found the exploit first. Yellows8 was the first to post the picture and provide details. But I thought that exploited game was initially locked into userland. So maybe neimod looked into it and found a way to access the kernel.


> [00:06:02] <@yellows8> got code running in arm11 userland/kernel-mode again, and arm9 user/kernel-mode too.(my previous method for arm11 code exec only worked with the gamecard version, this method works with the SD savehax version too)


 
As these devs have confirmed running it from an unmodified 3DS, this is indeed good news to us as we won't have to go to extreme measures to replicate this.


----------



## pasc (Dec 30, 2012)

tysonrss said:


> 3DS has plenty of cancelled titles. Which is sad.


so considering that fact... maybe the piracy had some positive effects anyhow ?

Two funny quotes coming from pirates I remember:
- Pirating is environment friendly: less packaging, paperwork, need to print disks, cartridges etc.
- PPL who pirate wouldn't have planned to buy the game either way...

Actually I disagree with the latter as I personally love to buy my games nowadays (actually I must be sick... I plan to buy all of the MMBN, Phoenix Wright games just so I own them lol)

Piracy isn't that interesting anymore as it was... I mostly use it for emulation of old systems.

There aren't to many new games I'm interested in currently anyways.

@tysonrss:

it depends on the point of view


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

pasc said:


> so considering that fact... maybe the piracy had some positive effects anyhow ?
> 
> Two funny quotes coming from pirates I remember:
> - Pirating is environment friendly: less packaging, paperwork, need to print disks, cartridges etc.
> ...


I don't see how piracy can have any positive effects whatsoever.

It's just fun being a pirate.

Arrr!


----------



## Gaiaknight (Dec 30, 2012)

and so it begins
http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=193583



> *If piracy gets bad on the 3DS, we will have no choice but to stop supporting the platform with new games. Some say that piracy leads to more game sales, claiming that it enables players to try before they buy. Bullshit. The percentage of people who will spend money on a game that they already got for free is surely very small – especially with so many “free” games already in the market. The line between what should/should not be free is getting very blurry.*


 
from developer Renegade kid

This is the type of stuff i dont want to see happen.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Dec 30, 2012)

Gaiaknight said:


> and so it begins
> http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=193583
> 
> 
> ...


 
well i can tell them, dementium 1 was somewhat hyped for having blood and monsters in it. but it wasnt a good game. so 2 didnt sell as many copies.

also, i'm totally fine with homebrew only, as long as it leads to enjoyable gba emulation


----------



## tysonrss (Dec 30, 2012)

Gaiaknight said:


> and so it begins
> http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=193583
> 
> 
> ...


That is such a ridiculous statement, it's laughable if you ask me. They get to cheery pick what it is they want but when it comes to others its a whole different stoey. They want emulators and homebrew and Nintendo made it impossible without hacking yet they want to hack it to do these things, yet when it comes to priracy they're all dead set against bustin their nuts on the platform. What irony. Such hypocrites.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 30, 2012)

Gaiaknight said:


> and so it begins
> http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=193583
> from developer Renegade kid
> This is the type of stuff i dont want to see happen.





> If someone pirates Minecraft instead of buying it, it means I’ve lost some “potential” revenue. *Not actual revenue*, as I can never go into debt by people pirating the game too much, but I might’ve made even more if that person had bought the game instead. *But what if that person likes that game, talks about it to his or her friends, and then I manage to convince three of them to buy the game? I’d make three actual sales instead of blocking out the potentially missed sale of the original person which never cost me any money in the first case*.
> 
> *Instead of just relying on guilt tripping pirates into buying, or wasting time and money trying to stop them, I can offer online-only services that actually add to the game experience*. Online level saving, centralized skins, friends lists and secure name verification for multiplayer. None of these features can be accessed by people with pirated versions of the game, and hopefully *they can be features that turn pirates from thieves into potential customers*.


http://notch.tumblr.com/post/1121596044/how-piracy-works
From Notch. I don't even like the guy but he talks sense.


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## gundalf (Dec 30, 2012)

Forget Notch, what he says only makes sense for an Indie, if you are an (even small) Publisher you have to apply an completely different logic.


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## Vappy (Dec 30, 2012)

I disagree with a lot of what Notch does and says, but what he says there is good stuff. He, like Valve, CD Projekt and others, understands that building a good repertoire with as many customers as possible goes much further than trying to control them.

Piracy with gaming is an inevitability, someone will eventually find a way. I understand the need to try to combat it, to protect sales, but developers need to be careful with how far they go, lest they risk alienating their legitimate, paying customers. Just look at GFWL and the issues that produces, and Ubisoft's always-on DRM.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 30, 2012)

The whole "piracy digs into nonexistent revenue" thing I find to be rather bunk.

There's plenty of games I would've bought if it wasn't for piracy. It's the same case for a lot of people. Also the whole "What if I like a pirated game and I convince my friends to buy it?" is pretty bullshit. If I like a pirated game I'll probably just tell my friends to pirate it too.

If you're curious enough to pirate a game you could easily have been curious enough to buy it. And if you played a pirated game and liked it, you still may not bother purchasing a copy of it since you're already done with it. The exception is multiplayer gaming but multiplayer itself can be seen as a form of antipiracy.


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## chyyran (Dec 30, 2012)

tysonrss said:


> I don't see how piracy can have any positive effects whatsoever.
> 
> It's just fun being a pirate.
> 
> Arrr!


 
It has positive effects for the pirate. For the developers... not so much.

Also, piracy only eats a minimal amount of sales. This is a proven fact.

Personally, I only pirate games because frankly, console games are EXPENSIVE, and inconvenient (I'd rather carry one flashcart around than a whole box of legit carts.) Probably the reason why I stopped pirating PC games a while ago. (Steam is awesome)

Music and TV Shows/Movies I have other reasons to pirate besides cost, but that doesn't really matter in this thread.


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## Vappy (Dec 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ...


 
It's case by case. Different people are going to do different things, have different attitudes, and yours neither proves nor disproves any argument or excuse made so far. People are arguing piracy as a matter of right or wrong, but it has effects more complicated than anyone could hope to even guess at with their vague assumptions about how the video game consumer market handles it. And moreover, as has been stated many times already, the entire discussion is completely irrelevant to the topic! Neimod has stated he doesn't intend to support piracy, and completely regardless of anyone else's opinion, at the end of the day it'll be his and yellows8's that decide what the hack is used for, when/if they release it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 30, 2012)

Vappy said:


> It's case by case. Different people are going to do different things, have different attitudes, and yours neither proves nor disproves any argument or excuse made so far. People are arguing piracy as a matter of right or wrong, but it has effects more complicated than anyone could hope to even guess at with their vague assumptions about how the video game consumer market handles it. And moreover, as has been stated many times already, the entire discussion is completely irrelevant to the topic! Neimod has stated he doesn't intend to support piracy, and completely regardless of anyone else's opinion, at the end of the day it'll be his and yellows8's that decide what the hack is used for, when/if they release it.


 
You're playing a paid commodity without paying for it. I think it's immoral no matter what way you look at it. Whether you care is really the issue.

I wasn't really talking in terms of Neimod or this hack, I just saw the topic of piracy came up and I thought I'd put in my two cents.


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## pwsincd (Dec 30, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong, a 3DS rom couldn't run without some form of flashcard (i.e. on board electronics to mimic the actual original card? If that statement is true, would it also then be true that running a 3ds rom from the internal SD slot wouldn't be possible.. If all this is true then it seem logical to block piracy by enabling homebrew via SD only ? or am I pissing in the wind here.. kinda thinking out loud I guess...


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## RupeeClock (Dec 31, 2012)

pwsincd said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, a 3DS rom couldn't run without some form of flashcard (i.e. on board electronics to mimic the actual original card? If that statement is true, would it also then be true that running a 3ds rom from the internal SD slot wouldn't be possible.. If all this is true then it seem logical to block piracy by enabling homebrew via SD only ? or am I pissing in the wind here.. kinda thinking out loud I guess...


I'm guessing you're unaware of the fact that retail 3DS games have digital download versions as well.
You can play New Super Mario Bros 2 on a game card, or a digital download from the SD card you know.

So hypothetically it may be entirely possible to get any 3DS rom to launch from the 3DS home menu, if it was properly hacked. A flashcard might be totally unnecessary.


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## pwsincd (Dec 31, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> I'm guessing you're unaware of the fact that retail 3DS games have digital download versions as well.
> You can play New Super Mario Bros 2 on a game card, or a digital download from the SD card you know.
> 
> So hypothetically it may be entirely possible to get any 3DS rom to launch from the 3DS home menu, if it was properly hacked. A flashcard might be totally unnecessary.


 
Ah yeah didn't think of that, ah well. Well If the game is dumped from a card wouldn't there be checks to verify the card, where as a eShop game maybe has modified code to alter its intricacies... I really am guessing lol..


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## SifJar (Dec 31, 2012)

Zarcon said:


> It's a sad day when so many people take a non-public IRC comment dripping with sarcasm as a serious statement and say they're doing it for attention.


It's completely public.


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## Zarcon (Dec 31, 2012)

SifJar said:


> It's completely public.


In the same way that saying things on #gbatemp.net is public and everyone is publicly informed.
As in not really until someone decides to take it outside of IRC.

In case there's any confusion, my comment is directed at the "We're elitists" bit, not the kernel control bit.
Believing the former to be serious is silly, believing the latter is up to the person.


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## ShonenJump (Dec 31, 2012)

No release date yet? Or how long Will it take?


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## gamefan5 (Dec 31, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> I'm guessing you're unaware of the fact that retail 3DS games have digital download versions as well.
> You can play New Super Mario Bros 2 on a game card, or a digital download from the SD card you know.
> 
> So hypothetically it may be entirely possible to get any 3DS rom to launch from the 3DS home menu, if it was properly hacked. A flashcard might be totally unnecessary.


Hence, CUSTOM FIRMWARES!!! XD


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## chyyran (Dec 31, 2012)

dsionr4 said:


> No release date yet? Or how long Will it take?


Why would they release it when they have yet to map out the 3DS fully? Nintendo would patch it so quickly that it'd be useless.

This exploit is not for public use, at least, not yet. This exploit is used for the haxx0rs to map out the 3DS, experiment with it, and see if they can find better exploits.

As for how long it will take for the scene to start kicking, a few months to a year is my guess.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 31, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> Hence, CUSTOM FIRMWARES!!! XD


Who knows? Maybe custom firmwares will not be necessary!


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## FAST6191 (Dec 31, 2012)

pwsincd said:


> Ah yeah didn't think of that, ah well. Well If the game is dumped from a card wouldn't there be checks to verify the card, where as a eShop game maybe has modified code to alter its intricacies... I really am guessing lol..



I had wanted to avoid going more or less baseless speculation mode but you seem to be trying to use actual logic and thought was is something we do try to encourage so what the hey.

The very short version is we do not know and it could either way and very easily.

What little has been glimpsed says there may be a separation of game data and the binary (certainly the partially decrypted ROM images I have seen do this and most of the public info on 3d brew points to something). Some have gone as far as to speculate on something resembling what is known as a modified Harvard architecture (data and running code kept apart) which is probably not the case.

On carts, SD slots and downloadable content.
For all the bluster once you have code running in memory* and the option to load extra data in should it be necessary at an equivalent (or faster) pace (bandwidth and latency) to the original you have piracy, assuming of course you have decrypted copies of the games you want to run. However this need not be trivial for various reasons- one of these you touch upon where the game itself will be hardcoded with protocols to load from the 3ds slot or something which may be quite different to the SD slot (homebrew being made from the ground up will lack this problem entirely); if the underlying system is a basic unix style affair it could be a matter of changing /mnt/3dsslot to /mnt/SDcard somewhere or it could involve hunting down every instance of read protocol within a game (usually there is just one there as the result of a compiler doing its job and kicking it all to a function but various libraries, which developers are inclined to use, can boast their own) and patching it to use the SD card instead. I doubt developers have gone true AP styley at this point but I would not be surprised to hear Nintendo left their "say the word and we will add a whole slew of automated binary checks for you" style AP from the later DS SDK versions either.

*that might be pushing it a bit- there are all sorts of little things that might cause trouble, assuming we are dealing with a kernel level exploit (or an escalation of privileges) and there is no crazy hardware hypervisor or higher level I am confident enough to ignore them for the time being.

The various groups that seek out homebrew do not have to sit idly by either and given they kind of have to understand how it all works to do various homebrew tasks they can do all sorts of things to prevent the most obvious method of having commercial games work from working.

For downloadable games- many consoles do use but minor tweaks between versions (the 360 versions of downloadable games aka GOD/games on demand differ only by a few bytes in the header to the resulting files of hard drive install as do some DLC and installable extras- see PIRS vs LIVE). However a few changes and a recompile (quite possible and see also the stuff covering the potential troubles with changing media above) could see this method dashed save for an awful lot of effort. Wiiware and disc games are actually quite similar (I recall playing with a chess game once as a test that appeared as wiiware only in one region and disc in another) but that is many years and Nintendo have supposedly got some people that might know about security to help out.


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## gamefan5 (Dec 31, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> Who knows? Maybe custom firmwares will not be necessary!


then... FIRMWARES!!! XD


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## qweasd123 (Dec 31, 2012)

Meanwhile DSi-mode still isn't hacked


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## RupeeClock (Dec 31, 2012)

On the subject of "Will retail titles run from the SD card", it seems as though Gamecard or eShop versions of the games are practically identical, save for one flag that differs if it is gamecard based or SD card based.

http://www.3dbrew.org/w/index.php?title=Title_list&curid=36&diff=4649&oldid=4514




> 00040000 - eShop Titles
> This titleID-High is also used for gamecard applications. The CXI for retail applications available via gamecard and eShop are exactly the same, except the exheader differs. The SD application flag is likely the only different field in the exheader. The eShop version of the CXI has additional padding.


 
So reading this, it seems as though if you hacked a dumped retail rom and changed or added that SD application flag, that makes it SD card compatible.
The 3DS itself probably has its own way to handle retail titles from the SD card, as launch window titles like Pilot Wings Resort and Ocarina of Time 3D may not have been built to be launched from an SD card.


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## dronesplitter (Dec 31, 2012)

Now I'm going to really hate updating beyond 4.5.0, wondering if I will miss out on this. But I will have to update at some point to play new games. Life was easier when consoles and handhelds didn't have firmware updates


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## Rydian (Dec 31, 2012)

Zarcon said:


> It's a sad day when so many people take a non-public IRC comment dripping with sarcasm as a serious statement and say they're doing it for attention.
> 
> For now, nothing to see here other than the hope that things may start happening soon-ish.
> In the mean time, try not to say things that give people more reasons to make fun of GBAtemp.


Unfortunately, last I checked telling people "Shut up you whiny little bitch" would just get your post removed and leave theirs, so... *they still get to post stupid shit because they're allowed to*, whereas the people telling them to shut up have to take their time and do it nicely, and then don't get read anyways while the threads get flooded with even more crap that will just stick around.



gundalf said:


> Forget Notch, what he says only makes sense for an Indie, if you are an (even small) Publisher you have to apply an completely different logic.


Yes, *entirely retarded logic* stating that piracy somehow steals money and jobs from them.  The whole "Piracy == negative money" line is total bullshit.  If piracy caused monetary or job loss, then copyright infringement cases would be in criminal court, not civil court.

But hell, if you want to see how "big name" devs that do it RIGHT think, read this.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/25/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/
Which, by the way, isn't much different.  It's focusing on the product and service to get sales, instead of actively fighting piracy.

Also, Minecraft has 17.5 million sales.  *I think it's earned the right to be an example of how to make a game that sells.*



SifJar said:


> It's completely public.


I think he's talking about the difference between a conversation and an announcement.

You know, how news sites would post about Notch's twitter responses to questions, and then everybody would bitch that Mojang is making too many announcements. 

(Since it was mentioned.)


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## spinal_cord (Dec 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ...While I'm at it, I'd like to say that the controller you have in your signature looks absolutely amazing - that's actually the main reason why I wrote this reply in the first place.


 
Follow the link, building it was very very easy


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## YoshiInAVoid (Dec 31, 2012)

Someone mentioned how it requires a game card or thing from the eShop. If we use this game, will we still be able to play it legitimately or will it turn into a hack card which cannot be played?


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## ground (Dec 31, 2012)

YoshiInAVoid said:


> Someone mentioned how it requires a game card or thing from the eShop. If we use this game, will we still be able to play it legitimately or will it turn into a hack card which cannot be played?


IF they are gonna release this hack, it will be a savegame hack which can be put on the gamecard. If you can do that you can also backup your original savegame and restore it if you don't want to use the hack.


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## Chaossaturn (Dec 31, 2012)

Looks like the big gaming news site are posting about this now:

http://kotaku.com/5972141/the-3ds-is-being-hacked-and-why-this-is-good-news

there must read this forum, lol.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 31, 2012)

Chaossaturn said:


> Looks like the big gaming news site are posting about this now:
> 
> http://kotaku.com/5972141/the-3ds-is-being-hacked-and-why-this-is-good-news
> 
> there must read this forum, lol.


Actually Kotaku noticed the Tiny Cartridge article first.

http://tinycartridge.com/post/39223984600/more-nintendo-3ds-hacking-progress-hackers-have

Also Tiny Cartridge only reported the facts as they are, they are making big progress in recent days, what Xcution has done, what Neimod has done.
What full kernal access means for region bypassing, how Neimod does not want to allow piracy to happen.

Kotaku's article decided to actually take a side and say "The 3DS being hacked is good news", I don't really hold Kotaku in very high esteem as it is.
Of course, the practical benefits are why all of us here are excited too. It's just I expect a gaming journalism site to not be so quick to disregard that piracy is bad.


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## Chaossaturn (Dec 31, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> Actually Kotaku noticed the Tiny Cartridge article first.
> 
> http://tinycartridge.com/post/39223984600/more-nintendo-3ds-hacking-progress-hackers-have
> 
> ...


 
I'm actually surprised I always thought that even if there think piracy is ok, there still had to say it was bad because there are a gaming journalism site, I thought it was a unwritten rule but perhaps there feel Nintendo deserve it because there put region lock on there systems, so there getting what there deserve.


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## Arras (Dec 31, 2012)

Chaossaturn said:


> I'm actually surprised I always thought that even if there think piracy is ok, there still had to say it was bad because there are a gaming journalism site, I thought it was a unwritten rule but perhaps there feel Nintendo deserve it because there put region lock on there systems, so there getting what there deserve.


They are against piracy, but there are other benefits from hacking a system that they do want.


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## jowan (Dec 31, 2012)

At first I wanted the 3DS to be hacked, but now that I think about it it would be good for the console to remain unhacked for at least 3 more years so it doesn't lose developers support


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## d.d.d. (Dec 31, 2012)

Just gonna echo...
All I really want is region-free for the system. Licensing between JP, US, n PAL is just ridiculous and we should have the freedom to game (one of the things about the PS3 I really like).
If it means opening up the system to piracy, I can wait a few years for this, especially if it means that it will be easier to do once it's been perfected.


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## karyuudo (Dec 31, 2012)

Piracy didn't kill the DS and it won't kill the 3DS.


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## gamefan5 (Dec 31, 2012)

d.d.d. said:


> Just gonna echo...
> All I really want is region-free for the system. Licensing between JP, US, n *PAL* is just ridiculous and we should have the freedom to game (one of the things about the PS3 I really like).
> If it means opening up the system to piracy, I can wait a few years for this, especially if it means that it will be easier to do once it's been perfected.


 
*Eur. (As in Europe)*
*PAL* is short for *P*hase *A*lternative *L*ine. It is a color encoding system for televisions broadcasting at 576i, IIRC. It's not used (or shouldn't be used) to define a region of a game or console in any way.

EDIT: @Foxi4, you can thank me now. XD


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## ATMB (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm pissing myself like a puppy dog, like about 90% of everyone who read this thread


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## Valwin (Dec 31, 2012)

hopefully if something happens with this  towards only homebrew and no piracy


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 31, 2012)

Hacked or not I really don't think the 3DS will lose much developer support. If piracy deterred developers then we wouldn't have games on a lot of consoles. Fact is that a vast majority of 3DS users won't pirate.

I know Renegade Kid said they wouldn't if piracy was deemed _that_ bad but I don't think you'll see many big ones dropping support.

Also depends on how it's hacked/how piracy is supported. If it requires buying external hardware (like the DS) then that'll turn some people off as opposed to a simple hack with the tools you have at home (like the PSP).

I probably won't be hacking any of my consoles, especially in a day and age where technology and updates are so necessary to electronics. That goes for my Vita, my phone, my future 3DS (yes I give it a lot of shit but I'll buy it eventually, it's just not a priority), and so on.


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## the_randomizer (Dec 31, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> *Eur. (As in Europe)*
> *PAL* is short for *P*hase *A*lternative *L*ine. It is a color encoding system for televisions broadcasting at 576i, IIRC. It's not used (or shouldn't be used) to define a region of a game or console in any way.
> 
> EDIT: @Foxi4, you can thank me now. XD


 
PAL is also typically 20% slower when to comes to framerates; 49.95 versus 59.95 fps.


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## James194zt (Dec 31, 2012)

All I want is region free gaming! I am happy to buy the games I want but I am NOT buying a 2nd console to play them on. This is what p****s me off with Nintendo as there are a few Japanese games I would love to get my hands on (Project Mirai for example).

I import for my PS3 and PS Vita but Nintendo screwed us over royally with this region locking!


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## Snailface (Dec 31, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Hacked or not I really don't think the 3DS will lose much developer support. If piracy deterred developers then we wouldn't have games on a lot of consoles. Fact is that a vast majority of 3DS users won't pirate.
> 
> I know Renegade Kid said they wouldn't if piracy was deemed _that_ bad but *I don't think you'll see many big ones dropping support.*
> 
> ...


Right, probably because they understand the fallacy over panicking about piracy.

As I posted on Jool's blog, if he drops 3ds due to rampant piracy, what platform will he move Renegade Kid to?. All the other _successful_ platforms have rampant piracy. His argument that a platform's viability is due to the absence of piracy is thus silly, as is his threat to ditch 3ds development because of it.


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## chrisrlink (Dec 31, 2012)

I agree with the hacking, hopefully yellow8 will find a game less exploit as I have none of the hardware to upload a save onto a cart.


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## Rizsparky (Dec 31, 2012)

Snailface said:


> Right, probably because they understand the fallacy over panicking about piracy.
> 
> As I posted on Jool's blog, if he drops 3ds due to rampant piracy, what platform will he move Renegade Kid to?. All the other successful platforms have rampant piracy. His argument that a platform's viability it due to the absence of piracy is thus silly, as is his threat to ditch 3ds because of it.


 
This, Mutant Mudds is on the AppStore for 0.99$ and iOS piracy is on the rise.... I really don't like R.K anymore, MM is extortionate on the eshop, I'd pirate it just because he's ripping 3DS owners off for the same damn game..


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## Nah3DS (Dec 31, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> PAL is also typically 20% slower when to comes to framerates; 49.95 versus 59.95 fps.


Yeap, I remember I had a switch in my Mega Drive to change modes betwen PAL and NTSC. Everything was sooooo damn slow on PAL mode, but the colors looked more vibrant and nicer.

I believe that happens only on consoles. With handhels (like GB, GBC, GBA, DS) there is no difference at all in framerate, the video mode is the same regardless the region. Correct me if am wrong.


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## gamefan5 (Dec 31, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> Yeap, I remember I had a switch in my Mega Drive to change modes betwen PAL and NTSC. Everything was sooooo damn slow on PAL mode, but the colors looked more vibrant and nicer.
> 
> I* believe that happens only on consoles. With handhels (like GB, GBC, GBA, DS) there is no difference at all in framerate, the video mode is the same regardless the region. Correct me if am wrong.*



The answer lies in the post I've made a bit above.


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## Nah3DS (Dec 31, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> The answer lies in the post I've made a bit above.


yeap... and NTSC is short for *N*ever *T*wice *T*he *S*ame *C*olor


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## Bitbyte (Dec 31, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> The answer lies in the post I've made a bit above.


 
You are wrong, PAL (along with NTSC-U and NTSC-J) is definitely used to indicate the region of a game or console. Have you never bought a game for a console of the generations before this one? All of them use PAL/NTSC to indicate the region. Handhelds don't have to bother with PAL/NTSC since they all use the same screen, so there's no reason to have different video output. That's why the region of handheld games is indicated with EUR/USA/JPN etc. and why the region of console games is indicated with PAL, NTSC (scene releases mostly use USA to tag this). Consoles with HD output don't have to adhere to NTSC/PAL either (since it's HD output, which is the same worldwide) but the games' region is still indicated that way.

You are right in that he should've used EUR in that sentence though, since he was just talking about regions in general.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 31, 2012)

Rizsparky said:


> This, Mutant Mudds is on the AppStore for 0.99$ and iOS piracy is on the rise.... I really don't like R.K anymore, MM is extortionate on the eshop, I'd pirate it just because he's ripping 3DS owners off for the same damn game..


 
You'd be hard stretched to find a game on the PSN, eShop, XBLA, etc that has a same priced or more expensive iOS counterpart.

I really don't see iOS piracy on the rise as an issue when people are still willing to pay $1 for a game and the install base is much much larger than the 3DS or any other handheld with comparable digital services.


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## karyuudo (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm sure piracy is killing the PS Vita right now too. 

I wish those fanboy's out there would realize the facts. Systems don't fail because of Piracy. There is always those out there who will be willing to buy the product. It's not like every PSP or DS owner out there has hacked their device or bought a hack card for it. There's lot of parents out there who aren't like us and just buy their little Jimmy their DS games cuz it's easy and they have the spare cash.

I've heard reports that DS piracy killed sales for Nintendo. Really? Show me the numbers. There aren't any. It's a known fact that Nintendo made plenty of cash off the DS and is still considered a success.

For those using the PSP cop out - piracy didn't kill that system. Lack of good development did. Let's put it this way, if you're going to put a portable system out there, you better have some damn good games for it. The PSP did have a few, but they were few and far between. Even in 2013 there's games scheduled to come on the system.

Then there's the Vita. Is there piracy on it? No. Did anyone buy this system? No. Why? Because no one cares about it. Sony themselves don't care about it. It's an overpriced $250 paperweight with no dev support because the devs know there's more money to be made elsewhere. Nintendo caught on very quickly with the 3DS that if you want to put it into households, you keep the price under $200. Sony being idiots are still with their thumbs up their asses thinking people will be suckered into this system.

What about the Wii? That system was hacked to kingdom come. Why was it a bomb? Not because of piracy, it's because Motion controls are still not there yet. Sure there was a bunch of good games for it (Pretty much all made by Nintendo) but when the devs can't even get a handle on the system, why do you think it was a shovelware system of continuous bad games. Not only that, but it didn't even have HD graphics or digital audio for that matter - which would have been the draw for hardcore gamers. The only people to profit off the Wii were Nintendo. Everyone else got screwed.

So if the 3DS does get hacked wide open, I would hardly worry about the piracy issue because at the end of the day, there's enough people out there buying games for it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 31, 2012)

karyuudo said:


> I've heard reports that DS piracy killed sales for Nintendo. Really? Show me the numbers. There aren't any. It's a known fact that Nintendo made plenty of cash off the DS and is still considered a success.


 
I've actually never heard that, especially when the system sold like 150+ million units and some games with over 10+ million sales. Like I'm pretty sure it's factually a slam dunk wrapped in a grand slam.


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## gamefan5 (Dec 31, 2012)

Bitbyte said:


> You are wrong, PAL (along with NTSC-U and NTSC-J) is definitely used to indicate the region of a game or console. Have you never bought a game for a console of the generations before this one? All of them use PAL/NTSC to indicate the region. Handhelds don't have to bother with PAL/NTSC since they all use the same screen, so there's no reason to have different video output. That's why the region of handheld games is indicated with EUR/USA/JPN etc. and why the region of console games is indicated with PAL, NTSC (scene releases mostly use USA to tag this). Consoles with HD output don't have to adhere to NTSC/PAL either (since it's HD output, which is the same worldwide) but the games' region is still indicated that way.
> 
> You are right in that he should've used EUR in that sentence though, since he was just talking about regions in general.


*Sigh I knew something like this would happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
The console's region is indicated the same as handheld, as in EUR, JAP, NA. *NOT* it's compatible video mode. You don't say it's a NTSC console and btw nowhere in my consoles say it's an NTSC console (considering it doesn't even make sense). You say it's an NTSC *compatible* console. However, gamers don't make this distinction and they say that these video formats are associated to video games when it is not. It's for TV's. NTSC and PAL are encoding systems used in selected regions. The reason it's used in video games is the fact that for example, a EUR and US wii have a different compatible video mode.


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## karyuudo (Dec 31, 2012)

http://www.maxconsole.com/news/DS/M...out-potential-3DS-piracy-RKLS00000018870.html

"Piracy on the Nintendo DS crippled the DS retail market, especially in Europe. We’ll never know how/if Dementium II landed in as many hands as the first game, Dementium: The Ward, due to the rampant piracy at the time. Dementium: The Ward sold more than 100,000 copies worldwide, which is a great success for an original mature-rated title on the DS. Recorded sales of Dementium II are less than half that. We’ll never truly know why that was so, but many seem to believe that piracy had a lot to do with it."

I call BS on this. Just because your game didn't sell well doesn't mean people pirated it. There's so many other factors to that. Was it marketed correctly? Did anyone know of this game? Heck I've never even heard of the first one.


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## the_randomizer (Dec 31, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> yeap... and NTSC is short for *N*ever *T*wice *T*he *S*ame *C*olor


NTTSC? At least our games are 20% faster. It's supposed to be "Never The Same Colour".


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## Nah3DS (Dec 31, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> NTTSC? At least our games are 20% faster. It's supposed to be "Never The Same Colour".


hahaha lol   .... the 2nd T doesn't count


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## the_randomizer (Dec 31, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> hahaha lol  .... the 2nd T doesn't count


I know for handhelds, NTSC/PAL makes no difference in speed.


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## J-Machine (Dec 31, 2012)

Removing the region lock and opening up the media capabilities is what's exciting me the most about hacking the 3ds. with the wii and ds I also used it to demo games but the 3ds is capable of giving one demos and releasing emulated games via the e-shop. Also last gen for nintendo was full of garbage games so that didn't help there.

I guess it would also be nice  to have my entire collection on an SD card but to be honest, I usually play one game exclusively so this won't bother me at all.


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## JPnintendo (Dec 31, 2012)

I have the feeling that the exploit is based on the mario kart patch, that could be a way to the 3ds mode without using some hardware to access to the data save on the game. I know that someone said that it is a save exploit, but... who knows?


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## the_randomizer (Dec 31, 2012)

I just want Snes9x on the 3DS (based off of version 1.52 would be good), but I can dream, can't I?


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## Sly 3 4 me (Dec 31, 2012)

This page is cited on Kitguru for the hack, pretty interesting.

Kitguru


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## heartgold (Dec 31, 2012)

Officially confirmed on the 3Dbrew main page under latest news and updated the OP.


> 29 December 12 Neimod has gained full kernel control from an unmodified 3DS


http://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Main_Page


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## omgpwn666 (Dec 31, 2012)

karyuudo said:


> http://www.maxconsole.com/news/DS/M...out-potential-3DS-piracy-RKLS00000018870.html
> 
> "Piracy on the Nintendo DS crippled the DS retail market, especially in Europe. We’ll never know how/if Dementium II landed in as many hands as the first game, Dementium: The Ward, due to the rampant piracy at the time. Dementium: The Ward sold more than 100,000 copies worldwide, which is a great success for an original mature-rated title on the DS. Recorded sales of Dementium II are less than half that. We’ll never truly know why that was so, but many seem to believe that piracy had a lot to do with it."
> 
> I call BS on this. Just because your game didn't sell well doesn't mean people pirated it. There's so many other factors to that. Was it marketed correctly? Did anyone know of this game? Heck I've never even heard of the first one.


 
I can say that I love Dementium and would have bought number 2 if I couldn't pirate it. Sadly I am greedy that way, I won't buy a game I pirate. I do believe the sales took an impact from piracy.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ..something along the lines of "We hacked the PSP Go, we're not releasing the hack, the Go won't ever be hacked" or something like that. What's the point of doing that - rubbing your success into someone's face? Not cool.



Those guys made me laugh. I remember those days.. Also, I'm not going to hold it against neimod if this is never released... I mean, I'm sure he has his reasons for doing this. It's surely not a matter of "Oh, look what I did! You can't have it!" I really doubt it's that.. Not to mention the scene itself takes a lot of what they have for granted, and there have been cases of leaks before in the past. So, what would be the point of him releasing an unfinished exploit, or hack, or whatever it is he has done now?


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Dec 31, 2012)

omgpwn666 said:


> I can say that I love Dementium and would have bought number 2 if I couldn't pirate it. Sadly I am greedy that way, I wont buy a game I pirate. And I do believe the sales took an impact from piracy.


Of course they took an impact.
The question is how much of an impact.
It's probably not nearly as much as the developers of the game would have you think.


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## Armadillo (Dec 31, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> NTTSC? At least our games are 20% faster. It's supposed to be "Never The Same Colour".


 

PAL60 says hi.

Pal colour, ntsc speed .


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## Gun Slinger Boy (Dec 31, 2012)

Gotta see what this can do. Maybe we can load ROMs and stuff like with the PSP.
I'd like to see what kind of emulation the 3DS can run.
I can see them holding it back until the 3DS has a larger base and library of games, but does Nintendo and the general public have to know?


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## the_randomizer (Dec 31, 2012)

Armadillo said:


> PAL60 says hi.
> 
> Pal colour, ntsc speed .


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## FAST6191 (Dec 31, 2012)

The 20% faster thing kind of got solved long before the need for PAL60 (though PAL intended displays have been able to handle NTSC for decades) and indeed was just the lazily ported games, which did sadly include enough the library and companies that should have done better to be more than notable, that suffered there.

Today it is mainly those with North American sets (not sure about Japan) that suffer as they tend not to support PAL, as covered though if we are all supposed to be on digital sets and the reasons for the 50/60Hz split are distant memories of darker times for electronics (to say nothing of programming techniques/underlying hardware removing the issue from the other side) it is all good really.


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## jimmyemunoz (Dec 31, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> NTTSC? It's supposed to be "Never The Same Colour".


I don't reallly care to argue, but the phrase NahuelDS used, is correct. Here is a quote from Al Fasoldt, a columnist for The Post-Standard newspaper in Syracuse, New York (who has written about computers and consumer technology since 1983) "Punsters quickly changed the name of the NTSC system to Never Twice the Same Color, and engineers fumed." #mce_temp_url# < -----Good (quick) read if you want some background information on why the NTSC is a crippled encoding system, and why it was chosen.


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## the_randomizer (Dec 31, 2012)

PAL50 sucks, PAL60 is where it's at.


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## Bitbyte (Jan 1, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> *Sigh I knew something like this would happen.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
> The console's region is indicated the same as handheld, as in EUR, JAP, NA. *NOT* it's compatible video mode. You don't say it's a NTSC console and btw nowhere in my consoles say it's an NTSC console (considering it doesn't even make sense). You say it's an NTSC *compatible* console. However, gamers don't make this distinction and they say that these video formats are associated to video games when it is not. It's for TV's. NTSC and PAL are encoding systems used in selected regions. The reason it's used in video games is the fact that for example, a EUR and US wii have a different compatible video mode.


 
I didn't say anywhere that they are called PAL games or NTSC games (or consoles for that matter), I said that PAL or NTSC is the region of the game. Of course they are video formats, I'm not sure why you think anyone doubts that or thinks that PAL and NTSC are strictly there for games. People use PAL and NTSC for the old consoles since that's the video format they use, do you really think they don't know it's just shorthand for being compatible with that format?  You do realize that a game outputs in either PAL or NTSC for the older consoles, right? These video formats are associated with video games, just not strictly, they are associated with all non-HD content. Also, lots of non-HD games have the NTSC or PAL tag, either on the front cover or the back cover. Here's an example of Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped for PSX: http://images.wikia.com/crashban/images/7/75/Crash_Bandicoot_Warped_Boxart.jpg .

So, just to be clear: I'm well aware that NTSC and PAL are a TV format and that they are only used on games to indicate what region's TVs the game will properly display on.


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## omgpwn666 (Jan 1, 2013)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:


> It's probably not nearly as much as the developers of the game would have you think.


 
No one can make the call of how much of an impact it had though, so we will never know. On topic though, I am looking forward to a 3DS hack, but at the same time I'm not.


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## gamefan5 (Jan 1, 2013)

Bitbyte said:


> I didn't say anywhere that they are called PAL games or NTSC games (or consoles for that matter),* I said that PAL or NTSC is the region of the game.* Of course they are video formats, I'm not sure why you think anyone doubts that or thinks that PAL and NTSC are strictly there for games. People use PAL and NTSC for the old consoles since that's the video format they use, do you really think they don't know it's just shorthand for being compatible with that format?  You do realize that a game outputs in either PAL or NTSC for the older consoles, right? These video formats are associated with video games, just not strictly, they are associated with all non-HD content. Also, lots of non-HD games have the NTSC or PAL tag, either on the front cover or the back cover. Here's an example of Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped for PSX: http://images.wikia.com/crashban/images/7/75/Crash_Bandicoot_Warped_Boxart.jpg .
> 
> So, just to be clear: I'm well aware that NTSC and PAL are a TV format and that they are only used on games to indicate what region's TVs the game will properly display on.


 
. Ok I get what you were saying. That's actually what I was trying to convey. It's just that sentence, the way you worded it that I'm having a hard time digesting. XD


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## pokefloote (Jan 1, 2013)

Aw man, I thought I clicked on the "3DS was hacked" thread. Looks like I went to the NTSC vs PAL discussion thread instead.

Oh wait the title must be wrong. Someone should change it so it reflects what everyone is talking about.


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## d.d.d. (Jan 1, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> *Eur. (As in Europe)*
> *PAL* is short for *P*hase *A*lternative *L*ine. It is a color encoding system for televisions broadcasting at 576i, IIRC. It's not used (or shouldn't be used) to define a region of a game or console in any way.


 
At any rate, I define PAL as a region because it is used in many regions, like Australia, Brazil, and many European countries (tons more places too). Many PAL areas are not in Europe so it seems like a poor choice to define a formats release by the region of which it may or may not be a part of.

So for me, it's very easy to define any non-Japan or Non-US release as PAL simply because it lumps everything into one and there are very few issues with doing so for me.  If I bought Terranigma from a seller in Australia, it's PAL. If I bought Disaster: Day of Crisis from a seller in the UK, it's PAL. It's just so much easier to go by: Japan, US, and PAL.

Back on track, if licensing on the e-shop wasn't so asinine, we would be able to buy and store multiple games from multiple regions on the same SD card on the 3DS and gaming would be so much more simple. And the whole flashcard=multiple games and region-free issue would diminish.


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## AdityaNese (Jan 1, 2013)

just saying, but on 3dbrew.com, they took of the neimod hacked the 3ds thing down.

edited.


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## Shubshub (Jan 1, 2013)

AdityaNese said:


> just saying, but on 3dbrew.com, they took of the neimod hacked the 3ds thing down. So, it might have been a hoax?


It wasn't a Hoax because I Logged onto the IRC earlier and talked to yellows8 and he Basically Confirmed it by saying he to has kernel access


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## the_randomizer (Jan 1, 2013)

shub13 said:


> It wasn't a Hoax because I Logged onto the IRC earlier and talked to yellows8 and he Basically Confirmed it by saying he to has kernel access


Did you find out WHY it was taken down? That's a pretty dick thing to do.


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## Shubshub (Jan 1, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Did you find out WHY it was taken down? That's a pretty dick thing to do.


No But I can try


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## RodrigoDavy (Jan 1, 2013)

d.d.d. said:


> At any rate, I define PAL as a region because it is used in many regions, like Australia, Brazil, and many European countries (tons more places too). Many PAL areas are not in Europe so it seems like a poor choice to define a formats release by the region of which it may or may not be a part of.
> 
> So for me, it's very easy to define any non-Japan or Non-US release as PAL simply because it lumps everything into one and there are very few issues with doing so for me. If I bought Terranigma from a seller in Australia, it's PAL. If I bought Disaster: Day of Crisis from a seller in the UK, it's PAL. It's just so much easier to go by: Japan, US, and PAL.
> 
> Back on track, if licensing on the e-shop wasn't so asinine, we would be able to buy and store multiple games from multiple regions on the same SD card on the 3DS and gaming would be so much more simple. And the whole flashcard=multiple games and region-free issue would diminish.



There is also SECAM used in France, Russia and other countries I don't remember. Describing a region by the color encoding system is really lame. My country for example is part of the USA region, but uses PAL-M (The PAL enconding system combined with the NTSC frequency and number of lines).


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## Shubshub (Jan 1, 2013)

I Believe the reason it was taken down is because it was a Discovery and probably not news worthy


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## the_randomizer (Jan 1, 2013)

shub13 said:


> I Believe the reason it was taken down is because it was a Discovery and probably not news worthy


Someone by the name of Josephvb10, he's responsible for it. But's it's been fixed apparently.  They should block his IP address.


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## Shubshub (Jan 1, 2013)

EFnet Web IRC said:
			
		

> [18:18] <shubshub> hi
> [18:26] <yellows8> sup?
> [18:26] <shubshub> So how come the news about the kernel access was removed from the main page?
> [18:27] <yellows8> uh, fwiw neimod reverted that edit not me.
> ...


^^^ There we go


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## Deleted User (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm going to keep everything in order and in one place in the following thread: http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo-3ds-hack-compilation.340296/
Let me know if I'm missing information, if information is inaccurate, or if any new information comes out as well as who has done what in a private message. Thanks.


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## d.d.d. (Jan 1, 2013)

RodrigoDavy said:


> There is also SECAM used in France, Russia and other countries I don't remember. Describing a region by the color encoding system is really lame. My country for example is part of the USA region, but uses PAL-M (The PAL enconding system combined with the NTSC frequency and number of lines).


I thought SECAM games would work on PAL systems as well... I can't recall... It's been a long time since I've lived in Europe and had to deal with that stuff back in the NES+SNES days.
I didn't know that about Brazil. I thought it was just regular PAL. Learn something new everyday.


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## boynl (Jan 1, 2013)

Does this mean that ppl can play import games on the 3ds or only roms ?


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## RupeeClock (Jan 1, 2013)

boynl said:


> Does this mean that ppl can play import games on the 3ds or only roms ?


Right now it doesn't mean anything.
Neimod has the freedom to start doing things but they have to learn how to do it, it will take a lot of work.

But arguably it does mean that they may be able to turn-off the region lock, or alternative switch the region of the 3DS so that playing other region titles (or even accessing other region eShops) becomes a possibility.


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## boynl (Jan 1, 2013)

Would be nice if that would be possible to remove the region lock from the 3DS


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## Luigi728 (Jan 2, 2013)

I am curious to the possibilities of Homebrew, but please, please no piracy. I don't want this awesome handheld to be ruined. Homebrew is fine and I would love that, like a DOS emulator (JAZZ JACKRABBIT ON THE GO HELL YEAH).


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## FAST6191 (Jan 2, 2013)

Luigi728 said:


> I am curious to the possibilities of Homebrew, but please, please no piracy. I don't want this awesome handheld to be ruined. Homebrew is fine and I would love that, like a DOS emulator (JAZZ JACKRABBIT ON THE GO HELL YEAH).



Psst- http://www.alister.eu/jazz/oj/download.php

Granted none of those appear so much on the DS (not sure of the state of things as far as Dingux goes) and I believe we are supposed to ignore the GBA game when in polite conversation. Hopefully the 3ds will be able to see a proper port of SDL made.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

I really hope that Homebrew developers will get access to the kernel someday  And I pray that we will get "peek and poke" access to the flash!
Then after that: region lock permanently blown away, Custom themes, installation of packages, and a way to block automatic updates without turning your wireless connection off! 
Maybe I wish for too much but hey it doesn't hurt now does it!


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## RupeeClock (Jan 2, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> I really hope that Homebrew developers will get access to the kernel someday  And I pray that we will get "peek and poke" access to the flash!
> Then after that: region lock permanently blown away, Custom themes, installation of packages, and a way to block automatic updates without turning your wireless connection off!
> Maybe I wish for too much but hey it doesn't hurt now does it!


Just say it, you want the 3DS blown wide open and everyone can get to do it. ^^
I don't blame ya, the 3DS homebrew scene would really flourish when even more people can do R&D.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

RupeeClock said:


> Just say it, you want the 3DS blown wide open and everyone can get to do it. ^^
> I don't blame ya, the 3DS homebrew scene would really flourish when even more people can do R&D.



I want the 3DS blown wide open  But not for piracy. Actually I don't really care since I value my collection of games and im going to keep expanding it.
But dont get me wrong, I dont really care for protecting the system from piracy either. I just want Homebrew and the ability to write my own code to run on my 3ds.

I love the theming possibilities of the PSP and jailbroken iOS devices and I love running emulators and to experiment with your own code on those devices.
And I don't think that neither iOS or the PSP had a bad life even thou there was piracy, Heck! not even the Nds had a bad lifetime. But that may be thanks to a lot of parents


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## kisamesama (Jan 2, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Holy crap if Vita got a full official android install (with flashable ROMs and hardware acceleration, fuck the PS3's gimped Linux) I'd buy one in a heartbeat. I would drive out to Walmart at 3 AM to get one the moment it happened.
> 
> EDIT: Today's late Rydian post is brought to you by the letter Q!


 
me too!!! it would be a dream come true..having android on vita lol... no need to buy a nexus 7 then haha



J-Machine said:


> Removing the region lock and opening up the media capabilities is what's exciting me the most about hacking the 3ds. with the wii and ds I also used it to demo games but the 3ds is capable of giving one demos and releasing emulated games via the e-shop. Also last gen for nintendo was full of garbage games so that didn't help there.
> 
> I guess it would also be nice to have my entire collection on an SD card but to be honest, I usually play one game exclusively so this won't bother me at all.


 
me too! being able to play the full 3d movies would be great


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## wangtang32000 (Jan 2, 2013)

personally, I'd just like to have the ability to play my own media on the 3ds without having to turn to netflix. but everything else would be even better lol.


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## dickfour (Jan 2, 2013)

A virtualboy emulator would be nice.


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## RupeeClock (Jan 2, 2013)

dickfour said:


> A virtualboy emulator would be nice.


By all means, it is the perfect system to do it too.
Hmm, what was the resolution of the Virtual Boy anyway? It's not like the virtual boy had a conventional screen.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Jan 2, 2013)

RupeeClock said:


> By all means, it is the perfect system to do it too.
> Hmm, what was the resolution of the Virtual Boy anyway? It's not like the virtual boy had a conventional screen.


 
384X224X2  (had 2 screens.) 

I too would like to see a VB emulator on the 3DS, maybe some one could even come up some sort of filters to add color to the games.

Kind of surprised Nintendo hasn't already done this, at least with Wario Land, put it on the Virtual Console.


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## RupeeClock (Jan 2, 2013)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> 384X224X2 (had 2 screens.)
> 
> I too would like to see a VB emulator on the 3DS, maybe some one could even come up some sort of filters to add color to the games.
> 
> Kind of surprised Nintendo hasn't already done this, at least with Wario Land, put it on the Virtual Console.


That's...quite curious actually.
Seeing as the 3DS top screen is 400x240x2, a VB emulator would display perfectly and only have an 8px border.
Yes I too am surprised as to why Nintendo hasn't jumped on this. VB Wario Land stands to be the best title for the system.
But on top of the VB library being quite small, a number of titles are not that remarkable.

Still, a VB emulator could even have colour configuration. Just simple options like Red or Monochrome, Standard palette or negative.
Seeing as how the VB frequently used red as a white substitute, so colours in a sense were illustrated in negative space. White on black rather than black on white for most Gameboy games.


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## gamefan5 (Jan 2, 2013)

RupeeClock said:


> That's...quite curious actually.
> Seeing as the 3DS top screen is 400x240x2, a VB emulator would display perfectly and only have an 8px border.
> Yes I too am surprised as to why Nintendo hasn't jumped on this. VB Wario Land stands to be the best title for the system.
> But on top of the VB library being quite small, a number of titles are not that remarkable.
> ...


Idk... perhaps it was more akin to the fact that it used t give massive headaches and dizziness after long hours of play. And the fact that you couldn't turn the 3D off unless just removing your eyes from the console.. 
It's funny though, because for me, it usually take long loads of time before it takes effect. (Yes, I have a friend who owns it.)
Still I must say, the virtual boy is an interesting piece of technology, even though it massively failed.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

I really wonder if it somehow would be possible to make an emulator that could output games like "super mario world" in 3d by stretching the layers in the game and create depth between them?
Like the closest layer would not be stretched at all and identical to both eyes while the background would be stretched and partly shown on each eye. That would be a really cool thing if it could work.
But it would probably need some smart game identification system and people creating fixes for each game in order for it to work. How else would the emulator know what order the layers are and how much each layer would be streched?

The reason why I think that this could be possible is by looking at the Snes emulator for NDS "SNEmulDS" and how it works with layers. This may or may not be possible at all, but I think its a pretty cool idea.


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## spinal_cord (Jan 2, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> I really wonder if it somehow would be possible to make an emulator that could output games like "super mario world" in 3d by stretching the layers in the game and create depth between them?
> Like the closest layer would not be stretched at all and identical to both eyes while the background would be stretched and partly shown on each eye. That would be a really cool thing if it could work.
> But it would probably need some smart game identification system and people creating fixes for each game in order for it to work. How else would the emulator know what order the layers are and how much each layer would be streched?
> 
> The reason why I think that this could be possible is by looking at the Snes emulator for NDS "SNEmulDS" and how it works with layers. This may or may not be possible at all, but I think its a pretty cool idea.


 
The emulator would have to know what order the layers are so they could be rendered correctly anyway, the 3D part would also be trivial, all it would need to do is move each layer further to the left (or right) in one of the views. transforming a layer based console emulator to 3D would be easier than cake. Also stretching would be a bad idea, just shifting left or right would be far better.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> The emulator would have to know what order the layers are so they could be rendered correctly anyway, the 3D part would also be trivial, all it would need to do is move each layer further to the left (or right) in one of the views. transforming a layer based console emulator to 3D would be easier than cake. Also stretching would be a bad idea, just shifting left or right would be far better.


 
As I said the emulator would need to know the order of the layers, but I believe that could be done by some kind of 3d configuration database-file that keeps 3d settings for each game. How is it that streching would be a bad idea? Would it not make for a more natural 3d effect with less eyestrain? If you look at the actual 3ds games they apear to have higher resolution and a larger field of view in 3D-mode right. Thats because thats exactly what it has. This cannot be replicated in a 2d game by just cloning each layer and separating them.
You have to stretch the background-layer so that you eyes can see defferent parts of it. Or am I wrong? Cloning a background-layer would probably be better if you want the Popout effect? But I dont think that popout would work in a 2d mario game. Im just guessing on this one.


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## spinal_cord (Jan 2, 2013)

All SNES (for example) emulators know what order the layers are in, if they didn't then the game would not render properly. I might not have worded that very well in my first reply, sorry. So that part of the task is already done by default. All stretching the image would do is, well, stretch the image, it would not add to or detract from the 3D effect, no difference at all.
3D mode does not _need_ higher resolution, that has nothing to do with anything. Cloning each layer and separating them would work just fine, that is exactly how Colors! works. There was even a yoshi's island 3d image posted on the gbatemp forum some time ago using this exact method.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> All SNES (for example) emulators know what order the layers are in, if they didn't then the game would not render properly. I might not have worded that very well in my first reply, sorry. So that part of the task is already done by default. All stretching the image would do is, well, stretch the image, it would not add to or detract from the 3D effect, no difference at all.
> 3D mode does not _need_ higher resolution, that has nothing to do with anything. Cloning each layer and separating them would work just fine, that is exactly how Colors! works. There was even a yoshi's island 3d image posted on the gbatemp forum some time ago using this exact method.


Yeah I get your point but you don't really get real 3d depth if you are just cloning and separating. You need to show your eyes different things in order to get the 3d effect, and my point is that this could be done by slightly stretching the background a few pixels in order to get that ske effect. Take a look at NSMB2 and you will notice that same thing in the background if you closing one eye at the time. And yeah, the order of the layers are already there in the game but for the emulator to understand the order and how to work out the 3d may not be just that easy. Sorry I'm not trying to sound rude or anything. I guess I'm just so psyched about the 3ds scene starting to take form


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## aphirst (Jan 2, 2013)

karyuudo said:


> http://www.maxconsole.com/news/DS/M...out-potential-3DS-piracy-RKLS00000018870.html
> 
> -quotesnip-
> 
> I call BS on this. Just because your game didn't sell well doesn't mean people pirated it. There's so many other factors to that. Was it marketed correctly? Did anyone know of this game? Heck I've never even heard of the first one.


 
On *Asahi* you can read that the sales of DS games dipped harshly during 2009, and the number of illegal downloads increased similarly.

*Could this possibly have anything to do with the recent global recession, hmm?* Games are luxury items, and people's wallets aren't limitless. What on Earth do you expect people to do? It's not like the companies in question have ever demonstrated the moral integrity they so casually expect from consumers.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

I made a lite small cross eyes proof of concept about my 3d theory. I dont really have the "know how" of how to extract snes layers and convert them into pictures so I found a few pictures on google and did some photoshoping http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa223/Dani_Northstream/Mario3didea_zps934f6110.jpg

It giver you an idea of how it would work with stretched backround layers and clones foreground layers. However I did not put much time into this it could probably be done much much better.


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## totalnoob617 (Jan 2, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> Yeah I get your point but you don't really get real 3d depth if you are just cloning and separating. You need to show your eyes different things in order to get the 3d effect, and my point is that this could be done by slightly stretching the background a few pixels in order to get that ske effect. Take a look at NSMB2 and you will notice that same thing in the background if you closing one eye at the time. And yeah, the order of the layers are already there in the game but for the emulator to understand the order and how to work out the 3d may not be just that easy. Sorry I'm not trying to sound rude or anything. I guess I'm just so psyched about the 3ds scene starting to take form


I'd like to see an emulator that can give original nes games a really dramatic pop out effect like the mpo pic generated of smb3 here
http://www.mediafire.com/?nyel73ib082arwg

I think spinal is right, shouldn't be too difficult


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## Devin (Jan 2, 2013)

Devin said:


> Pokemon Rumble
> PilotWings
> Paper Mario: Sticker Star
> Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask
> ...


 
AHEM.^^^ Does anyone know what unit they're using? These games were on the European eShop. If anyone has an exact date we could uh, single out the game possible.

EDIT: Not single out, but clean up some games that couldn't be them.


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## pokefloote (Jan 2, 2013)

Devin said:


> AHEM.^^^ Does anyone know what unit they're using? These games were on the European eShop. If anyone has an exact date we could uh, single out the game possible.
> 
> EDIT: Not single out, but clean up some games that couldn't be them.


Most of the released preview images are from Japanese systems, no?


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## Fishaman P (Jan 2, 2013)

Full kernel control is amazing! As long as he completes a 3DS HBC installer before he releases the hack, we can all install it before Ninty patches it.

On a side note, I have an R4i SaveDongle and not a lot of money, so people jump on that 

*EDIT: Looks like the 3DBrew wiki took down that news post; I can't see it from the link.*


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## DaniPoo (Jan 2, 2013)

totalnoob617 said:


> I'd like to see an emulator that can give original nes games a really dramatic pop out effect like the mpo pic generated of smb3 here
> http://www.mediafire.com/?nyel73ib082arwg
> 
> I think spinal is right, shouldn't be too difficult


 
Spinal could be right, but I don't see how his theory could work for a real 3d effect that doesn't put strain on your eyes.
I did just put out proof that my way of making 2d to 3d works. And its not that difficult to do. I believe it could be done on any emulator with a little power to spare and some custom instructions.

Taking 2 identical pictures, and separating them will not make 3d. SBS is built on 2 different pictures separated. They are different in terms of angle.


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## chyyran (Jan 2, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> Spinal could be right, but I dont see how his theory could work for a real 3d effect that doesnt put strain on your eyes.
> I did just put out proof that my way of making 2d to 3d works. And its not that difficult to do. I believe it could be done on any emulator with a little power to spare and some custom instructions.
> 
> Taking 2 identical pictures, and separating them will not make 3d. SBS is built on 2 different pictrures separated. They are different in terms of angle.


 

SNES doesn't have 2 identical pictures, they have layers of different sprites that fit together to make the full image. Creating "space" between these layers by shifting them a bit left or right, like spinal said, would be all that's needed to create a 3D effect.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 3, 2013)

Ron said:


> SNES doesn't have 2 identical pictures, they have layers of different sprites that fit together to make the full image. Creating "space" between these layers by shifting them a bit left or right, like spinal said, would be all that's needed to create a 3D effect.


 
You dont understand how 3d works


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## chyyran (Jan 3, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> You dont understand how 3d works


You dont understand how the 3ds works


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## RupeeClock (Jan 3, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> You dont understand how 3d works


I don't see much wrong with the proposed method.
With SNES layers, shift layers either further from the back, or the front, slightly left on one image and slightly right on the other. The further back/forward, the more slight the adjustment.
What might happen is that graphical glitches could occur, things like hitboxes or where the graphics appear on screen might behave oddly (think Mario's position on the ground), but it is worth seeing if it can be done properly.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 3, 2013)

I understand how 3d works, i have proven it..Whatever you whant to say...


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## RupeeClock (Jan 3, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> I understand how 3d works, i have proven it..Whatever you whant to say...


I do too, I have rendered out 3D images of my own that look correct on the 3DS, and even taken magic-eye images off of Google image search, and made them viewable in 3D on the 3DS.

It's cool, the 3DS can actually do magic eye pictures for the user.


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## spinal_cord (Jan 3, 2013)

1. - here is the post with the yoshis island pic, using seperations, not stretching. -- http://gbatemp.net/threads/snes-emu-mockup-with-3d-pic.300926/
2. - before you say that I don't know how 3D works, I assure you I do, very well.

By separating each layer a different amount, it gives each eye a different image. Like I said, not only does this work, but it works very well indeed. You do not NEED different angles to create a 3D effect, only different images. Also, like I said before, ANY SNES emulator would be able to do this with no effort at all. I have created MANY 3D pictures using this method. As I mentioned, Colors! 3D uses THIS EXACT METHOD. Are you telling me that Colors! 3D has no 3D effect?? How about SwapNote? That uses THIS EXACT METHOD also.

Please accept that What I am saying is true and that no stretching or 'other angle' is required.


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## Luigi728 (Jan 3, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Psst- http://www.alister.eu/jazz/oj/download.php
> 
> Granted none of those appear so much on the DS (not sure of the state of things as far as Dingux goes) and I believe we are supposed to ignore the GBA game when in polite conversation. Hopefully the 3ds will be able to see a proper port of SDL made.


 
Yeah, I know of OpenJazz. But sadly that was never available for the DS. I'd love to have Jazz Jackrabbit with me on the go. I still need to finish that game one day, but on my PC I have so much more games it easily gets lost. On the 3DS would be perfect.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 3, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> 1. - here is the post with the yoshis island pic, using seperations, not stretching. -- http://gbatemp.net/threads/snes-emu-mockup-with-3d-pic.300926/
> 2. - before you say that I don't know how 3D works, I assure you I do, very well.
> 
> By separating each layer a different amount, it gives each eye a different image. Like I said, not only does this work, but it works very well indeed. You do not NEED different angles to create a 3D effect, only different images. Also, like I said before, ANY SNES emulator would be able to do this with no effort at all. I have created MANY 3D pictures using this method. As I mentioned, Colors! 3D uses THIS EXACT METHOD. Are you telling me that Colors! 3D has no 3D effect?? How about SwapNote? That uses THIS EXACT METHOD also.
> ...



Dont tell me that you made that picture using your mothod cause I notice that that it kind of uses "my method" without stretching somehow. And how they managed to extract larger fields of layers I do not know. Yeah.. If you can do that then you dont need to tretch at all..
If you look at each layer with one eye at the time you will start to notice that the pictures are not clones. They are in fact parts of and whole picture just like I did with my picture. I know that its not just "separation" because each picture has the same resolution as the "whole" while still holding individual detail.
I still dont buy the whole clone and separate. 

BTW.. someone sent a zip folder with mario bros 3 MPO pictures with a popout effect.. They look like crap on the 3ds, I dont believe that someone spent time making those pictures. Its just as I said before, dont try popout on 2d mario games. The popout effect is very limited and works best if it doesnt meet the outer borders of the screen. There is a big difference between "making 3d" and "making good 3d"! please learn that.


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## spinal_cord (Jan 3, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> Dont tell me that you made that picture using your mothod cause I notice that that it kind of uses "my method" without stretching somehow. And how they managed to extract larger fields of layers I do not know. Yeah.. If you can do that then you dont need to tretch at all..
> If you look at each layer with one eye at the time you will start to notice that the pictures are not clones. They are in fact parts of and whole picture just like I did with my picture. I know that its not just "separation" because each picture has the same resolution as the "whole" while still holding individual detail.
> I still dont buy the whole clone and separate.
> 
> BTW.. someone sent a zip folder with mario bros 3 MPO pictures with a popout effect.. They look like crap on the 3ds, I dont believe that someone spent time making those pictures. Its just as I said before, dont try popout on 2d mario games. The popout effect is very limited and works best if it doesnt meet the outer borders of the screen. There is a big difference between "making 3d" and "making good 3d"! please learn that.


 
Here is a DKC image, cross-eyed because I don't have any software for saving .mpo in this computer, created by shifting layers left or right. NO STRETCHING. All current SNES emulators are capable of doing this right now, which was what your main question was about.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 3, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Here is a DKC image, cross-eyed because I don't have any software for saving .mpo in this computer, created by shifting layers left or right. NO STRETCHING. All current SNES emulators are capable of doing this right now, which was what your main question was about.


 
This picture is pretty cool but it's also flawed and needs some stretching lol. The layers do not have the same resolution as the screen by separating them like that. This makes the background layer visible on each side. 
if you stretch each picture just a litle to fill that gap it will solve that problem. There! Do you see my point now?

And if you dont believe me, here you go. I took your picture and made a .MPO out of it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?qihe6y57w14873y


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## DiscostewSM (Jan 3, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Here is a DKC image, cross-eyed because I don't have any software for saving .mpo in this computer, created by shifting layers left or right. NO STRETCHING. All current SNES emulators are capable of doing this right now, which was what your main question was about.


 
Wouldn't this be a problem for games that use heavy priority-by-tile backgrounds? It differs from the GBA hardware, because with the GBA, it does priority-by-layer backgrounds.


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## Rydian (Jan 3, 2013)

Which games use priority by tile?  All the SNES games where I've bothered disabling background layers used the layers in order, certain ones before and after the sprite layer.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 3, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Here is a DKC image, cross-eyed because I don't have any software for saving .mpo in this computer, created by shifting layers left or right. NO STRETCHING. All current SNES emulators are capable of doing this right now, which was what your main question was about.


And yeah. Take a look at what I did find! *SparroHawc *Official Android Porter:


> Unfortunately there's no really effective way to do this without specific emulator settings for each game or game engine. Different games will deal with parallax in different ways, and on top of that, you would need to shift the background each time a new screen loads AND make the background images slightly wider or restrict the traversable areas a bit l. It's a minor gain for a lot of work, and it would have to be repeated for every ROM.
> 
> Sorry. :/


 
Source: http://www.snes9x.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4815

Now maybe you can accept it when someone else sais the same thing...


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## DiscostewSM (Jan 3, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Which games use priority by tile? All the SNES games where I've bothered disabling background layers used the layers in order, certain ones before and after the sprite layer.


 
Sorry, my mistake. I didn't read enough into how the SNES handles background priority. I was thinking it was like how the GBA does it, except on the tile-level rather than the layer-level (priority 0-3 and such). Just checked here, and it is quite different from what I was thinking it was, as each "mode" has a set priority, with only 1 bit to discern if the tile is in front of behind a sprite at that same level.


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## Rydian (Jan 3, 2013)

Very nice link, thanks.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 3, 2013)

Here is a .MPO file I made some minutes ago. It uses different levels of stretching depending on how "far away" the layer is. And it also uses a separation method offcourse.
The game is Super Mario World 2 - Yoshi's Island
http://www.mediafire.com/?yixmrpx97mi7hyh

Here is the same picture with cross-eyes


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## Maxternal (Jan 4, 2013)

The nice thing about the SNES is that to make it easier on the developer the scrolling of the different layers was somewhat hardware controlled so in the case of an emulator, the emulator has to take care of that anyhow, no tricky interpretation needed.

Depending on what chip the cartridge was using, there were also other semi-3D effects that took place like having a sprite zoom from the the background into the foreground (Ridley escaping from the space station in Super Metroid as well as the ship in those cut scenes ... Boswer in Mario World ... and I also remember throwing people onto the foreground in a Ninja Turtles game.)

Since the Emulator has to take care of these anyhow, adding a little 3D effect from the REAL hardware doesn't sound that difficult.
(Some of the nicer ones would be things like Mario Kart or any FX chip games ... zooming in on the map in Zelda, Link to the Past, might look a little awkward, though, but I could be wrong.)


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## spinal_cord (Jan 4, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> This picture is pretty cool but it's also flawed and needs some stretching lol. The layers do not have the same resolution as the screen by separating them like that. This makes the background layer visible on each side.
> if you stretch each picture just a litle to fill that gap it will solve that problem. There! Do you see my point now?
> 
> And if you dont believe me, here you go. I took your picture and made a .MPO out of it.
> http://www.mediafire.com/?qihe6y57w14873y


 
As I said, there is no need to stretch at all. There is only a 4 pixel difference on either side, just clipping those 4 pixels off would prevent any leaking of the layers while at the same time preserving a 1:1 pixel ratio, keeping the image almost exactly as it would be on SNES hardware (ish). My point still stands.


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## AeroblitzR (Jan 4, 2013)

hate to be that guy...
but when is neimod gonna stop being a dweeb and release somthing...?


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## 431unknown (Jan 4, 2013)

AeroblitzR said:


> hate to be that guy...
> but when is neimod gonna stop being a dweeb and release somthing...?



When its ready.
Things take time and I'm sure he does other things also besides hacking.


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## AeroblitzR (Jan 4, 2013)

yeah, that's true...
I don't even want 3ds roms, I just want homebrew like emulators


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## RupeeClock (Jan 4, 2013)

AeroblitzR said:


> yeah, that's true...
> I don't even want 3ds roms, I just want homebrew like emulators


It'd be one thing just to release the exploit as it is, but making an emulator or anything takes time too.

Anyway there's the possibility that they haven't released anything yet, because they are waiting for Nintendo to issue another firmware update.
There we will see if it is safe to update or not, and take appropriate action.


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## Rydian (Jan 4, 2013)

AeroblitzR said:


> hate to be that guy...
> but when is neimod gonna stop being a dweeb and release somthing...?


When are YOU going to release something?


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## DaniPoo (Jan 4, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> As I said, there is no need to stretch at all. There is only a 4 pixel difference on either side, just clipping those 4 pixels off would prevent any leaking of the layers while at the same time preserving a 1:1 pixel ratio, keeping the image almost exactly as it would be on SNES hardware (ish). My point still stands.


 Are you against stretching or anything? you only stretches very litte to fill the gaps and its only on the background layers. 
Basicaly you will still have the 1:1 experience if you dont stretch the layer the sprites interact with and that layer and the sprites at 0 depth.


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## spinal_cord (Jan 4, 2013)

DaniPoo said:


> Are you against stretching or anything? you only stretches very litte to fill the gaps and its only on the background layers.
> Basicaly you will still have the 1:1 experience if you dont stretch the layer the sprites interact with and that layer and the sprites at 0 depth.


 
Stretch = blur, blur = ugly. Especially on a low resolution system like the SNES, even more so when there will be only a small amount of stretch. It also seems that I misunderstood your original statement, I assumed that you meant the stretching would be required for the 3D effect to work, not that it could be used to hide some of the edges.

As for what *SparroHawc *said about it being too much work, I can't see how. SNES9x already allows the user to enable/disable each bg layer, which proves a couple of things, 1. the layers are already rendered separately and 2. the emulator already knows the priority of each layer, or else it wouldn't be displayed correctly to start with.
Really all that needs to be done, even i it is on a per game basis, would be to render one display as-is, then a second with the layers shifted to the side (by different amounts of course). All of which can be don automatically as the emulator already knows which layer is in front, which is second etc. "It's a minor gain for a lot of work" is just a way of saying "I don't want to", which is fair enough.


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## Rydian (Jan 4, 2013)

I agree that clipping four pixels from the side would be much more preferable to stretching the layer.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 4, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Stretch = blur, blur = ugly. Especially on a low resolution system like the SNES, even more so when there will be only a small amount of stretch. It also seems that I misunderstood your original statement, I assumed that you meant the stretching would be required for the 3D effect to work, not that it could be used to hide some of the edges.
> 
> As for what *SparroHawc *said about it being too much work, I can't see how. SNES9x already allows the user to enable/disable each bg layer, which proves a couple of things, 1. the layers are already rendered seperatly and 2. the emulator already knows the priority of each layer, or else it wouldn't be displayed correctly to start with.
> Really all that needs to be done, even i it is on a per game basis, would be to render one display as-is, then a second with the layers shifted to the side (by different amounts of course). All of which can be don automatically as the emulator already knows which layer is in front, which is second etc. "It's a minor gain for a lot of work" is just a way of saying "I don't want to", which is fair enough.



Yeah but I used to play snes back in the days before HD on a fatty TV and boy was it blurred lol! but you dont have to "blur" in order to stretch. 

I understand what you are trying to explain but I dont think that the emulator itself knows what order the layers are placed as it may be a part of each game-engine, I could be wrong here.
But there is also one other problem, there is no way the emulator could automaticaly understand by itself how to set the optimal offset. This has to be done for each game by a human.
Like I said earlied, This could be done by having some kind of "3D config database file" that stores layer offset information for each rom title. 
The final problem I could think of is that 3D cant be applied for every game because layers can actually be too complex. 
EXAMPLE: TLOZ - A link to the Past. The background layer that shows the ground is actually the same layer the shows the trees and the treecrowns (you can run under those)
So if you elevated link to be higher up than the ground then you would automatically be higher up than the treecrowns aswell and that would look very ugly. 

But I guess it would be possible in a game like mario world if you turn the 3d off at the worldmap  Because the worldmap uses the same layers in a different way. 
And I dont think the emulator could change 3d settings based on game events. That would be cool thou!


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## McHaggis (Jan 4, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Stretch = blur, blur = ugly. Especially on a low resolution system like the SNES, even more so when there will be only a small amount of stretch. It also seems that I misunderstood your original statement, I assumed that you meant the stretching would be required for the 3D effect to work, not that it could be used to hide some of the edges.
> 
> As for what *SparroHawc *said about it being too much work, I can't see how. SNES9x already allows the user to enable/disable each bg layer, which proves a couple of things, 1. the layers are already rendered separately and 2. the emulator already knows the priority of each layer, or else it wouldn't be displayed correctly to start with.
> Really all that needs to be done, even i it is on a per game basis, would be to render one display as-is, then a second with the layers shifted to the side (by different amounts of course). All of which can be don automatically as the emulator already knows which layer is in front, which is second etc. "It's a minor gain for a lot of work" is just a way of saying "I don't want to", which is fair enough.


I was thinking about this a long time ago too, and I thought about the layers dilemma.  If someone could come up with a system so that it could be left up to the community to define how the 3D works, then it wouldn't be much work for the developers, they'd only have to implement the engine.  So, a basic system might be a config file that defines layer offsets for a particular mode or when a memory offset is at a particular value.  A more advanced system could use a scripting engine, like V8 or something (JavaScript is a very easy to learn language), using callbacks and host functions to change the display as and when necessary.



DaniPoo said:


> EXAMPLE: TLOZ - A link to the Past. The background layer that shows the ground is actually the same layer the shows the trees and the treecrowns (you can run under those)
> So if you elevated link to be higher up than the ground then you would automatically be higher up than the treecrowns aswell and that would look very ugly.


That makes little sense.  If the layer for the ground is the same as the layer for the trees, how would Link be able to run behind them?


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## DaniPoo (Jan 4, 2013)

McHaggis said:


> I was thinking about this a long time ago too, and I thought about the layers dilemma. If someone could come up with a system so that it could be left up to the community to define how the 3D works, then it wouldn't be much work for the developers, they'd only have to implement the engine. So, a basic system might be a config file that defines layer offsets for a particular mode or when a memory offset is at a particular value. A more advanced system could use a scripting engine, like V8 or something (JavaScript is a very easy to learn language), using callbacks and host functions to change the display as and when necessary.
> 
> 
> That makes little sense. If the layer for the ground is the same as the layer for the trees, how would Link be able to run behind them?



If you dont believe me you should check it out yourself by switching on and of layers within the Snes9x emulator for PC.
I have seen many interesting funktions in layers. You should also take a look at the layers at the first stage of Donkey Kong Country 3  
There is a layer there that both acts as the background and the foreground water which you can swim in. Interesting stuff is going on there and I dont know how it works.


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## spinal_cord (Jan 4, 2013)

McHaggis said:


> ... If the layer for the ground is the same as the layer for the trees, how would Link be able to run behind them?


 
Interrupts. The layers can change priority even during rendering the screen (I assume).
Similar to how Mode7 works. 'Mode7' was how games like Mariokart rendered perspective, the scale of the layer was changed on the hblank, so for every scan line, the background could be a different scale, the higher up the screen, the smaller the bg, the lower down the screen the larger the bg.
I would assume that the background in Zelda, would be set behind the sprites if the player is in front of the trees or infront if the player is behind. Although I didn't know that the same layer was used for trees and grass, seems a bit silly when you have 4 layers + sprites to play with.


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## DaniPoo (Jan 4, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Interrupts. The layers can change priority even during rendering the screen (I assume).
> Similar to how Mode7 works. 'Mode7' was how games like Mariokart rendered perspective, the scale of the layer was changed on the hblank, so for every scan line, the background could be a different scale, the higher up the screen, the smaller the bg, the lower down the screen the larger the bg.
> I would assume that the background in Zelda, would be set behind the sprites if the player is in front of the trees or infront if the player is behind. Although I didn't know that the same layer was used for trees and grass, seems a bit silly when you have 4 layers + sprites to play with.



Something like that sound about right. But the fun thing is that you could actually be halfway under the treewhile still be over the ground. 
Anyway, I think this discussion need its own thread. Anyone wanna have the honor of putting up a thread in the forum about "2D to Stereoscopic 3D"?


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## McHaggis (Jan 4, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> Interrupts. The layers can change priority even during rendering the screen (I assume).
> Similar to how Mode7 works. 'Mode7' was how games like Mariokart rendered perspective, the scale of the layer was changed on the hblank, so for every scan line, the background could be a different scale, the higher up the screen, the smaller the bg, the lower down the screen the larger the bg.
> I would assume that the background in Zelda, would be set behind the sprites if the player is in front of the trees or infront if the player is behind. Although I didn't know that the same layer was used for trees and grass, seems a bit silly when you have 4 layers + sprites to play with.


I knew how Mode7 worked, but to be honest I've never given SNES development much of a look.  Interrupts seem like they would be glitchy: what happens, for instance, when your player is half-in and half-out? 



DaniPoo said:


> If you dont believe me you should check it out yourself by switching on and of layers within the Snes9x emulator for PC.
> I have seen many interesting funktions in layers. You should also take a look at the layers at the first stage of Donkey Kong Country 3
> There is a layer there that both acts as the background and the foreground water which you can swim in. Interesting stuff is going on there and I dont know how it works.


I'll take your word for it.

Anyway, I started a thread for you guys.  I even put a special video in there for you... get your glasses on.


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## Anlex (Jan 7, 2013)

I do not care much for roms and the like. And homebrew may be interesting, but what I really want to get rid of is the STUPID REGIONLOCK. Let's hope there is a release soon.


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## Chase-san (Jan 8, 2013)

I honestly don't care if 'piracy' is doable or not. I would love to be able to get inside my 3ds and tinker around with some custom programs of my own without going through Nintendo.


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## Anlex (Jan 9, 2013)

I just hope there will be a release before Nintendo manages to fix this and even all the "good" guys are screwed.


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## pwsincd (Jan 9, 2013)

Even nintendo would struggle to fix something before anyone releases a hack, as they don't know what the hack is.


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## yuuna (Jan 9, 2013)

they might have known, iirc someone here said it is like twilight hack.


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## Maxternal (Jan 9, 2013)

yuuna said:


> they might have known, iirc someone here said it is like twilight hack.


The problem is there are LOTS of ways something can be like the Twilight Hack. It's knowing which game, where in the game and what kind of exploit it uses. There are lots and lots of combinations


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## yuuna (Jan 9, 2013)

true, I was referring to pwsincd's post. let's just wait and see when the upcoming update released if nintendo manage to patch it.


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## FireGrey (Jan 9, 2013)

After the release of Pokemon X and Y I really hope there will be no 3ds hacks this year.
Just think of all the rom begging...


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## yuuna (Jan 9, 2013)

FireGrey said:


> After the release of Pokemon X and Y I really hope there will be no 3ds hacks this year.
> Just think of all the rom begging...


i think it has become a tradition, there will still be threads like that around and there will be mods who close all those threads down.


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## Anlex (Jan 9, 2013)

I do not care about roms but I want to play some games that are probably not coming to Europe and importing is not an option as long as region lock is still working. I will not buy a second system just because Nintendo decided to patronize customers.

And I certainly would not want to wait another year for a solution just because there are people out there begging for roms. They will always be there. How would postponing a release change that fact?


----------



## SifJar (Jan 9, 2013)

Anlex said:


> And I certainly would not want to wait another year for a solution just because there are people out there begging for roms. They will always be there. How would postponing a release change that fact?


No one even suggested a possibility of the release of the exploit being postponed even a minute due to the entitled pirates wanting warez. It seems rather random for you to voice your opposition to such an idea when it was not suggested in the first place.


----------



## Anlex (Jan 9, 2013)

It was a response to FireGrey saying that he hoped for no 3ds hack releases this year.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 9, 2013)

pwsincd said:


> Even nintendo would struggle to fix something before anyone releases a hack, as they don't know what the hack is.



Ignoring the tradition of hackers sometimes having a quiet word beforehand I would not be so sure of a fix "only after the public release" and there are still things Nintendo could do; though presumably not much is known they could see some people look through the code, they could add a bunch of integrity checks to obvious hacking points, they could try for a multiregion/multifirmware approach, they could do some obfuscation (granted the previous example is possibly an applied version of that) and the list goes on for some time. Granted some of that is a delaying tactic or frustration tactic rather than a "true" protection but I would not discourage Nintendo from doing it should I be wearing my "security advisor" hat.


----------



## SifJar (Jan 10, 2013)

Anlex said:


> It was a response to FireGrey saying that he hoped for no 3ds hack releases this year.


Oops, didn't see his post. Apologies.


----------



## OldClassicGamer (Mar 17, 2013)

Anlex said:


> I do not care about roms but I want to play some games that are probably not coming to Europe and importing is not an option as long as region lock is still working. I will not buy a second system just because Nintendo decided to patronize customers.
> 
> And I certainly would not want to wait another year for a solution just because there are people out there begging for roms. They will always be there. How would postponing a release change that fact?



I agree with this post 100%


----------



## Smuff (Mar 17, 2013)

Bollocks to all the moralistic bullhickey - Give me a hack and flashcard and Nintendo gains another 3DS sale  - No ROMs, no 3DS sale.
It's better than nothing Nintendo, take it or leave it.


----------



## BORTZ (Mar 17, 2013)

Smuff said:


> Bollocks to all the moralistic bullhickey - Give me a hack and flashcard and Nintendo gains another 3DS sale  - No ROMs, no 3DS sale.
> It's better than nothing Nintendo, take it or leave it.


Congrats, you are what's wrong with gbatemp.


----------



## pasc (Mar 17, 2013)

If this ever gets real:

Homebrew emulators etc. b****es !

Dragonminded should recreate a 3DSOrganize (however I doubt he will ever return *sob*)

He sure was awesome.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Mar 17, 2013)

Anlex said:


> I do not care about roms but I want to play some games that are probably not coming to Europe and importing is not an option as long as region lock is still working. I will not buy a second system just because Nintendo decided to patronize customers.
> 
> And I certainly would not want to wait another year for a solution just because there are people out there begging for roms. They will always be there. How would postponing a release change that fact?


I'm fine without a ROM loader, but it would be nice to be able to store all my games on the SD card so I wouldn't have to carry them around.


----------



## Smuff (Mar 17, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> Congrats, you are what's wrong with gbatemp.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Do you get dizzy up there on the moral high ground ?



The Real Jdbye said:


> I'm fine without a ROM loader, but it would be nice to be able to store all my games on the SD card so I wouldn't have to carry them around.


Oh yes, _that_ old chestnut. _That's_ what I meant to say. That would be acceptable, of course, without question........


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## Arm73 (Mar 17, 2013)

Smuff said:


> Bollocks to all the moralistic bullhickey - Give me a hack and flashcard and Nintendo gains another 3DS sale  - No ROMs, no 3DS sale.
> It's better than nothing Nintendo, take it or leave it.


 


BortzANATOR said:


> Congrats, you are what's wrong with gbatemp.


 
I must say.....in all honesty.....if DS flashcarts weren't available at the time, I wouldn't have bought 1 DS phat, 2 DS lite and 1 DSiXL over the years....
Nintendo surely made a penny or two off me.......
Software sales......that's another matter.
But within the systems, cases, chargers, cables, SD cards, adapters and so on, I feel they made enough money off me.....
Just sayin'...


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## Dork (Mar 17, 2013)

Smuff said:


> Bollocks to all the moralistic bullhickey - Give me a hack and flashcard and Nintendo gains another 3DS sale  - No ROMs, no 3DS sale.
> It's better than nothing Nintendo, take it or leave it.


 
Boy, you sure showed them.


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## DiabloStorm (Mar 17, 2013)

[07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything, so kiss that warez loader goodbye

No wonder the decapping fundraiser is frozen at $1059.05... as long as they keep to themselves (by apparently monopolizing their finds) there will be no worthwhile brew or anything of the kind...

Also, on the topic of piracy damaging the 3ds or taking away game dev incentive or w/e: Pokemon B2/W2 released on DS in 2012. One of Nintendo's biggest franchises. I'll leave it at that.


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## porkiewpyne (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> [07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything, so kiss that warez loader goodbye
> 
> No wonder the decapping fundraiser is frozen at $1059.05... as long as they keep to themselves (by apparently monopolizing their finds) there will be no worthwhile brew or anything of the kind...


Except that fact that they said so right at the beginning. Not like they were trying to scam anyone of their money. And those who donated will get the pictures from the decapping. What people are going to do with the pictures is entirely up to them. Develop a way to run homebrew? Go ahead. Find a way to pirate 3DS games? Knock yourself out. Put it in your cat's litter box? I won't judge you. 

Think of it this way. You and a couple of friends pool some money to get some milk. You get your share. Your friends get theirs. All is good. But if one of your friends decides to convert his milk into say, cheese, he is not obligated in any way to share the recipe/method for making cheese. If you want cheese, you have to figure out how to do it yourself or get someone who does to do it for you, though that is a separate transaction altogether as cheese-making was never part of the original deal.


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## DiabloStorm (Mar 17, 2013)

porkiewpyne said:


> Except that fact that they said so right at the beginning. Not like they were trying to scam anyone of their money. And those who donated will get the pictures from the decapping. What people are going to do with the pictures is entirely up to them. Develop a way to run homebrew? Go ahead. Find a way to pirate 3DS games? Knock yourself out. Put it in your cat's litter box? I won't judge you.
> 
> Think of it this way. You and a couple of friends pool some money to get some milk. You get your share. Your friends get theirs. All is good. But if one of your friends decides to convert his milk into say, cheese, he is not obligated in any way to share the recipe/method for making cheese. If you want cheese, you have to figure out how to do it yourself or get someone who does to do it for you, though that is a separate transaction altogether as cheese-making was never part of the original deal.



They already know that most people won't know what they're doing with those images to begin with, anyway my points still stand.


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## porkiewpyne (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> They already know that most people won't know what they're doing with those images to begin with, anyway my points still stand.


Irrelevant. If anything, I'd rather have them claim to be "elitist bastards who never share anything" than to make empty promises.


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## FireGrey (Mar 17, 2013)

BrOtHeRs tHiS MaRkS A MoThErFuCkInG ExCiTiNg dAy!

EdIt: Oh, It's oLd nEwS, sIlLy mE.


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## Chaossaturn (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> [07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything, so kiss that warez loader goodbye
> 
> No wonder the decapping fundraiser is frozen at $1059.05... as long as they keep to themselves (by apparently monopolizing their finds) there will be no worthwhile brew or anything of the kind...



Yep and that's the reason I'm not going to donate,  if he was willing to share the information, I bet the fundraiser would of been complete day one. I look at the decapping as a kickstarter, he asking for money so that it can be decaped and by not shareing the information from the decapping it is just wrong & insulting, specially as he's asking the public for money to fund the decapping, it's one thing to fund the decapping yourself and be an "elitist bastards who never share anything" but it takes a total ass hole to ask people for money and not share a single thing. At the very least he should give the information of the decaping to the people who donanted.


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## ground (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yep and that's the reason I'm not going to donate, if he was willing to share the information, I bet the fundraiser would of been complete day one. I look at the decapping as a kickstarter, he asking for money so that it can be decaped and by not shareing the information from the decapping it is just wrong & insulting, specially as he's asking the public for money to fund the decapping, it's one thing to fund the decapping yourself and be an "elitist bastards who never share anything" but it takes a total ass hole to ask people for money and not share a single thing. At the very least he should give the information of the decaping to the people who donanted.


hmm they promised to send you the decapping information when you donate money. Also if they find anything usefull for the normal users they will sharing it, what else is the point of doing all this. But for know they just want to be sure nothing is gonna patched and be on the safe side.

the reason why i am not donating is that 1 I simply can't duo the payment methods 2: they always spitting fire on gbatemp and other (and it actually funny ) but when they need money they are gonna beg here


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## SuzieJoeBob (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yep and that's the reason I'm not going to donate, if he was willing to share the information, I bet the fundraiser would of been complete day one. I look at the decapping as a kickstarter, he asking for money so that it can be decaped and by not shareing the information from the decapping it is just wrong & insulting, specially as he's asking the public for money to fund the decapping, it's one thing to fund the decapping yourself and be an "elitist bastards who never share anything" but it takes a total ass hole to ask people for money and not share a single thing. At the very least he should give the information of the decaping to the people who donanted.


He was probably being sarcastic...and besides that, have you ever contributed anything to the community and/or dabbled a little bit in homebrew and coding??? Probably not, so stfu. Even if you _were_ given the decapping photos, what could _you_ possibly do with them???


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## porkiewpyne (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yep and that's the reason I'm not going to donate, if he was willing to share the information, I bet the fundraiser would of been complete day one. I look at the decapping as a kickstarter, he asking for money so that it can be decaped and by not shareing the information from the decapping it is just wrong & insulting, specially as he's asking the public for money to fund the decapping, it's one thing to fund the decapping yourself and be an "elitist bastards who never share anything" but it takes a total ass hole to ask people for money and not share a single thing. At the very least he should give the information of the decaping to the people who donanted.


As I mentioned a few posts above, they will give you the results of the decapping. It's like you go to KFC and expect them to give you their recipe just because you bought a bucket of chicken and 2 boxes of fries. O______o


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## SifJar (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> [07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything, so kiss that warez loader goodbye
> 
> No wonder the decapping fundraiser is frozen at $1059.05... as long as they keep to themselves (by apparently monopolizing their finds) there will be no worthwhile brew or anything of the kind...
> 
> Also, on the topic of piracy damaging the 3ds or taking away game dev incentive or w/e: Pokemon B2/W2 released on DS in 2012. One of Nintendo's biggest franchises. I'll leave it at that.


I find it quite shocking people still haven't realised that was sarcasm (despite it being explicitly stated numerous times). Basically, that's how people (e.g. users here) think of neimod et al, and so they began to call themselves that sarcastically; they do intend to (and indeed, already have; see the majority 3dbrew's contents) share their findings. They're not going to release any sort of warez loader; no surprise there. They're against piracy, why on earth would they release a piracy loader?

There is no point in them sharing the exploits they have etc., because there are probably about 3 other people who have both the skills & expertise and also the interest to do anything even vaguely useful (i.e. create a decent environment for running code, with access to all/most 3DS hardware functions etc.). Until that is done, it would be of no use to any "regular" person. People could maybe run a hello world, but that's useless. And then Nintendo would patch the exploit, and everyone is back to square one. It's not about them being elitist, it's about them being sensible.


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## WiiUBricker (Mar 17, 2013)

Don't worry about warez loaders. Once homebrew has been enabled, warez loaders are bound to happen by other people.
Rule of thumb: Homebrew → Warez. Truth.


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## ground (Mar 17, 2013)

the only way to prevent it is not release it


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## Chaossaturn (Mar 17, 2013)

porkiewpyne said:


> As I mentioned a few posts above, they will give you the results of the decapping. It's like you go to KFC and expect them to give you their recipe just because you bought a bucket of chicken and 2 boxes of fries. O______o


 
Well it good that there are giveing the results of the decapping (some of the things I said are irrelevant at this point, as I did not know that), I did not notice your post as I was replaying to the guy at the time and when I hit post, you had posted your post before mine.


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## DiabloStorm (Mar 17, 2013)

SifJar said:


> I find it quite shocking people still haven't realised that was sarcasm (despite it being explicitly stated numerous times).


 
Okay. If so, then my mistake, but then you go on to pretty much refute what you just stated...



SifJar said:


> There is no point in them sharing the exploits they have etc.


 
...



SifJar said:


> People could maybe run a hello world, but that's useless. And then Nintendo would patch the exploit, and everyone is back to square one.


 
I agree with that, as convenient as it is to say what you said... (when WOULD it be deemed useful for you guys to release specific info, anyway?) but confining the information to yourselves will always result in zero growth on the home brew front (and everything else.) 3dbrew is dedicated to home brew, and you really can't expect to have home brew worth anything without having more people involved eventually, and with that comes some inevitable "piracy." How exactly do you think you'll have one without the other, without gimping home brew as a whole? As you said, you only have a total of 4 people there.

I also have to agree with a post on here I saw earlier, all I pretty much care about is being able to carry my game DATA around while leaving the boxes and cartridges at home.


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## porkiewpyne (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Well it good that there are giveing the results of the decapping (some of the things I said are irrelevant at this point, as I did not know that), I did not notice your post as I was replaying to the guy at the time and when I hit post, you had posted your post before mine.


LOL it's kay


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## Geren (Mar 17, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yep and that's the reason I'm not going to donate, if he was willing to share the information, I bet the fundraiser would of been complete day one. I look at the decapping as a kickstarter, he asking for money so that it can be decaped and by not shareing the information from the decapping it is just wrong & insulting, specially as he's asking the public for money to fund the decapping, it's one thing to fund the decapping yourself and be an "elitist bastards who never share anything" but it takes a total ass hole to ask people for money and not share a single thing. At the very least he should give the information of the decaping to the people who donanted.


 
A single phrase can be taken out of context quite easily, don't you think?

As I understand, neomoid is talking stricly about "warez loaders", meaning that he doesn't support piracy. Most developers reasearch ways to get HOMEBREW loaders but when their methods gets released, they are transformed into piracy fests.  Calling someone who has made quite a lot of work in this early of the 3ds scene, an "asshole" just furtly validate his point of not wanting to give in into the whole "free pokeman romz pls!".


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## Smuff (Mar 17, 2013)

Where's my free Pokeman romz fuckers ????


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## SifJar (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Okay. If so, then my mistake, but then you go on to pretty much refute what you just stated...


I refuted nothing. I thought it was obvious that I meant there is no point in them releasing their exploit *now.* And also that they will release when it's ready and the time comes.


> I agree with that, as convenient as it is to say what you said... (when WOULD it be deemed useful for you guys to release specific info, anyway?) but confining the information to yourselves will always result in zero growth on the home brew front (and everything else.) 3dbrew is dedicated to home brew, and you really can't expect to have home brew worth anything without having more people involved eventually, and with that comes some inevitable "piracy." How exactly do you think you'll have one without the other, without gimping home brew as a whole? As you said, you only have a total of 4 people there.


And there is no "homebrew front", that's my point. At this point, it's not developers that are needed, it is hackers and reverse engineers. They need to explore the system, map out how everything works before people can even begin to think about creating homebrew. It's a completely different skill set.

And as I said before they *are *sharing pretty much everything besides the exploit itself.

I never said there were only 4 people who wanted purely homebrew. What I said (in an exaggerated fashion) was that besides neimod & yellows8, there are only about 3 people who would be capable of (and interested in) the reverse engineering necessary to create a homebrew SDK etc. for developers to use.[/quote][/quote]


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## DiabloStorm (Mar 17, 2013)

SifJar said:


> What I said (in an exaggerated fashion) was that besides neimod & yellows8, there are only about 3 people who would be capable of (and interested in) the reverse engineering necessary to create a homebrew SDK etc. for developers to use.


 
That's exactly what I meant, _eventually_ (key word here and in my other response) you'll have to open up and let the project expand...

I just really hope when you guys have established yourselves and Nintendo can't really do anything about it at that time, the entire thing isn't monopolized, that's all.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Mar 17, 2013)

I really wonder why I keep clicking on these topics whenever I see they were updated.
It's always just silly quarrels; at least talk about something interesting like, who's stronger, mr t, hulk hogan or your dad?


----------



## chyyran (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> That's exactly what I meant, _eventually_ (key word here and in my other response) you'll have to open up and let the project expand...
> 
> I just really hope when you guys have established yourselves and Nintendo can't really do anything about it at that time, the entire thing isn't monopolized, that's all.


 


Lets put it this way. Without an SDK, or at least a compiler, this:

```
#include <stdio.h>
int main(){
    printf("Hello World");
    return 0;
}
```
 
becomes (copy-pasta from here):

```
.syntax unified
.global main
 
 
main:
        push {ip, lr}
        ldr r0, =message
        bl printf
        mov r0, #0
        pop {ip, pc}
 
message:
        .asciz "Hello world!\n"
```


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## SifJar (Mar 17, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> That's exactly what I meant, _eventually_ (key word here and in my other response) *you'll* have to open up and let the project expand...
> 
> I just really hope when *you* guys have established* yourselves* and Nintendo can't really do anything about it at that time, the entire thing isn't monopolized, that's all.


This implies I have something to do with the hacking lol. I don't, I just understand vaguely what's going on.


----------



## DiabloStorm (Mar 17, 2013)

SifJar said:


> This implies I have something to do with the hacking lol. I don't, I just understand vaguely what's going on.


Jeez, by "you'll" and "yourselves" I generally meant the people at 3d brew behind all of this, if you're not, then obviously I don't mean you... -.-


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## the_randomizer (Mar 17, 2013)

If they don't release it publicly, they shouldn't bother telling us it's been hacked.

It's like someone who won a 10,000,000 dollar lottery and says to his friends, "Yeah, we're best friends, and now that I'm a millionaire, I'm not going to give you any money, but we're still friends!"


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## BORTZ (Mar 17, 2013)

I hope the 3DS doesn't see loaders for another few years.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 17, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> I hope the 3DS doesn't see loaders for another few years.


 
All I want is a port of Snes9x that isn't based off of 1.51 or 1.43. Surely, it's capable of handling something based off of 1.52 right?


----------



## Rydian (Mar 17, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> If they don't release it publicly, they shouldn't bother telling us it's been hacked.
> 
> It's like someone who won a 10,000,000 dollar lottery and says to his friends, "Yeah, we're best friends, and now that I'm a millionaire, I'm not going to give you any money, but we're still friends!"


The thing is that running unsigned code with kernel access on the 3DS is an accomplishment in the hacking community in general, not just an instance of personal gain.

What about sending a man to the moon?  They can brag about it without sending you there.


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 17, 2013)

Rydian said:


> The thing is that running unsigned code with kernel access on the 3DS is an accomplishment in the hacking community in general, not just an instance of personal gain.
> 
> What about sending a man to the moon? They can brag about it without sending you there.


 
I was making a point, I hope it will be public one day.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Mar 17, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> If they don't release it publicly, they shouldn't bother telling us it's been hacked.
> 
> It's like someone who won a 10,000,000 dollar lottery and says to his friends, "Yeah, we're best friends, and now that I'm a millionaire, I'm not going to give you any money, but we're still friends!"


wat


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 18, 2013)

WiiUBricker said:


> wat


 
Someone commented earlier that they probably won't release the hack to the public for fear of using it for a warez/ROM loader. If they (the hackers) are going to withhold the hack that allows homebrew on the 3DS, why bother making a public announcement at all?

Page 15 I believe.


----------



## Rydian (Mar 18, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> why bother making a public announcement at all?


Last I checked *they didn't*.  They posted some info to the sites they run (3DSbrew, etc.) and OTHER PEOPLE are going around re-reporting the progress.

I see this happen a lot with Minecraft, too. :\  One of the devs will say something on their blog or something and everybody's all "Wahhh why are they posting it on all these sites I don't like reading it wahhh" and I have to point out that they're not the ones doing it.


----------



## kirox777 (Mar 20, 2013)

Me personally, I would love to see the 3ds hacking scene finally take flight. I think there are so many things that can be updated or "fixed", like multitasking for instance.. it's currently oh so limited on the 3ds. As well as that other cool system menu mods that most likely will never come about relying on nintendo themselves; a simple music player hack to disable song pausing when returning to home menu would be greatly appreciated! 
It's the little tweaks like these that always makes jailbreaking anything so totally worth it! Emulators and Cool apps are like the bonus gifts you get imo. It would be a good idea when considering to release the exploit, to do so secretly first to trusted people for a reasonable amount of time so everyone has a chance to download. Like how wololo does with his 'ninja' releases. In fact i would love to have wololo ninja releasing the exploit just a week or so before it's publicly announced. That would be so awesome!! ^.^


----------



## Kouen Hasuki (Mar 20, 2013)

Will be interesting to see if this hack will ever see the light of day, then again if one person has done it another could too


----------



## chookz (Apr 23, 2013)

This chicken has full Colonel control...


----------



## Eerpow (Apr 23, 2013)

Kouen Hasuki said:


> Will be interesting to see if this hack will ever see the light of day, then again if one person has done it another could too


That's why I've decided to keep my old original 3DS and keep it on old firmware after getting my XL, maybe a year from now some hobbyist will find something. But if nothing pops up, which is the most likely thing to happen, then it would never really affect me since I primarily will use my XL instead during that time.


----------



## Rayder (Apr 23, 2013)

All I know is that I will NEVER buy a 3DS (or Vita, or any other future handheld) unless it's hacked to play ROMs.  It's just not worth the purchase otherwise.


----------



## Wizerzak (Apr 23, 2013)

Please stop bumping this thread. Every time I see it on 'What's New' my heart skips a beat as I think the 3DS has been hacked. Only to be crushed 2 seconds later with the realisation that it's this thread title again.


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 23, 2013)

Rayder said:


> All I know is that I will NEVER buy a 3DS (or Vita, or any other future handheld) unless it's hacked to play ROMs. It's just not worth the purchase otherwise.


 
This is your hometown, right?





And you must be related to Scrooge McDuck


----------



## Pong20302000 (Apr 23, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


>


 
i would of more posted something about someone being a massive tight wad because clearly they dont value the worth of others


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 23, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> i would of more posted something about someone being a massive tight wad because clearly they dont value the worth of others


 
Check above edited post


----------



## Pong20302000 (Apr 23, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Check above edited post


 
maybe there all related

http://gbatemp.net/threads/r4-sdhc-v2-10t-and-r4i-sdhc-1-4-1.346764/


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 23, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> maybe there all related
> 
> http://gbatemp.net/threads/r4-sdhc-v2-10t-and-r4i-sdhc-1-4-1.346764/


 
Of course, that still entitles him to be a pussy, amirite?


----------



## WiiUBricker (Apr 23, 2013)

Damn you guys bumping this thread. Every time I see this thread pop up in the sidebar my hopes get up, only to be crushed 5 seconds later.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Apr 23, 2013)

Wizerzak said:


> Please stop bumping this thread. Every time I see it on 'What's New' my heart skips a beat as I think the 3DS has been hacked. Only to be crushed 2 seconds later with the realisation that it's this thread title again.





WiiUBricker said:


> Damn you guys bumping this thread. Every time I see this thread pop up in the sidebar my hopes get up, only to be crushed 5 seconds later.


 
dejavue lol

maybe there twins


----------



## WiiUBricker (Apr 23, 2013)

Damn Wizerak, we have been exposed. Run for it!!


----------



## Wizerzak (Apr 23, 2013)

WiiUBricker said:


> Damn Wizerak, we have been exposed. Run for it!!


We? I assumed I was both of us.


----------



## RedCoreZero (Apr 23, 2013)

Why bump this, anyways with full kernel control it's like,GOD MODE.


----------



## chookz (Apr 23, 2013)

WooHoo I get my first 3DS today...!

Day off work tomorrow: Check
Game: Mariokart 7... I hope it's good!


----------



## Skelletonike (Apr 23, 2013)

chookz said:


> WooHoo i get my first 3DS today...!
> 
> Day off work tomorrow: Check
> Game: Mariokart 7... i hope its good!


I hope you bought it because you like the games and not because you're expecting for a hack to be released any-time soon. .-."


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## Dork (Apr 23, 2013)

What's with GBAtemp's obsession with bumping and creating new redundant "Hacking progress" threads?


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## chookz (Apr 24, 2013)

Skelletonike said:


> I hope you bought it because you like the games and not because you're expecting for a hack to be released any-time soon. .-."



Well I got a NES, 2x Snes, N64 on top of my CD64, Gamecube (admittedly with Hard Ninjamod) and a Wii... I had a NDS which I loved but gave it to the ex... So yea whilst hacks are fun I still love my Nintendo Shizzle.


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## Kippykip (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> PAL is also typically 20% slower when to comes to framerates; 49.95 versus 59.95 fps.


Yes but that has never happened to handhelds I believe


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2013)

Kippykip said:


> Yes but that has never happened to handhelds I believe


 
All hail the necrobump.

Right kids, I'll say this for the millionth time just for the sake of educating others. PAL and NTSC are _television_ standards. They _do no_t apply to handhelds of any kind unless the handheld has a TV-Out, and that's an extreme rarity. Moreover, we're moving away from that division and leaning towards standard HD plus most TV's these days support both PAL and NTSC so on home consoles the issue is practically non-existant.

Now, to prevent further Necrobumping, I'll report the thread for closing. I mean, c'mon - the last reply was from _april_. Unless someone has something extremely interesting and on-topic to say, there's no need to dig up dead threads.


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## ov3rkill (Jun 20, 2013)

MH4 here I come. hahaha

edit: aw, dang it!! I didn't look at the dates. hahaha


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