# Where Is the Innovation?



## CeeDee (Jan 28, 2017)

2016 was okay. Nothing amazing, games wise, but we got some nice stuff.
Star Fox Zero was nice...
As was Paper Mario...
Kirby Robobot...
Mario Party Star Rush...
Pokemon S/M...
Mario Maker on 3DS...

And heck, we got stuff like Pokemon GO and Mario Run as well!

It wasn't too horrible, at least to me.


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## ertaboy356b (Jan 28, 2017)

The innovation is there, in another console.


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## Ericzander (Jan 28, 2017)

Well @endoverend I figure I might as well copy+paste our Skype conversation since it applies to this thread.



			
				Us on Skype like an hour ago said:
			
		

> Ericzander: I see the value in the remasters as they usually use different developers than those that are making the bigger titles.  For example I really doubt that The Nathan Drake Collection was made at the expense of Uncharted 4.  And spending $60 or often times even less on a bundle of a series that I never played is awesome.  And more power too them if they have some people eating them up multiple times.  Seinfeld is still making money after all haha
> Endoverend: Yeah I see what you mean. What really gets me is games like Skyrim Special Edition
> Endoverend: Very little point to that even existing
> Endoverend: All those single game remasters of definitive games for the sake of having it exist on ps4
> ...


Edit: And now I realize how tough that is to read when both of our names start with an E.  Sorry for any eye strain this may cause people.



ertaboy356b said:


> The innovation is there, in another console.


Which one?


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## EmanueleBGN (Jan 28, 2017)

In cinematography too: a lot of remakes or sequels and very few new ideas


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 28, 2017)

agreed i'm so fucking sick of shooters and GTA clones and the wiiu was a disaster


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## Pokem (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm okay with remakes, but do a remake on games people haven't played (or at least most)
Like, Final Fantasy 6 for example (imo, this is the best game in the franchise.) 
Great game. I'm sure many FF fans will rise, build hype, and drag the modern gamers along with the hype and it will end with a colossal success. 
Some scenes in FF6 would look absolutely beautiful with FF15 quality graphics, along with the amazing story and one of the most epic, cruel, and mindtwisted villain I've ever seen.


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## Veho (Jan 28, 2017)

Extremely high production costs and the need to play it safe kinda curb the innovation. Nobody wants to risk that kind of money on a hit-or-miss idea that's not guaranteed to return the investment. Also in order to increase sales titles must be multiplatformers and have to conform to what all platforms can run. So we end up with a ton of action adventure games, GTA clones and slow FPS games, and HD remakes. Innovation is limited to small budget indie titles. 

Of course there are exceptions to all  of the above, but that's basically the state of things.


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## Santaros (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't think that it's so much a reliance on nostalgia or brand names, these days the games industry is big business and AAA titles can cost in the realm of hundreds of millions to produce. As a whole gamers are always reaching for the next level of graphical polish, the more realistic physics engine, the more advanced AI etc. Whether you like it or not as the production costs continually rise while gamers demand progress, this is an unfortunate and inevitable consequence, I would liken it to what is happening within the film industry. The sheer cost involved in producing big name titles forces the developers to play it safe, it's a lot of money to lose if the game does poorly, so they stick to the 'safe' options, the remake, the cut & paste sequel. Innovation is largely gone from the big names and you're likely going to have to look to the indie scene for unique ideas, while people continue to fork out money for these sorts of games I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

It's one of the reasons I tend to prefer the handheld systems these days [owning both a Vita & 3ds]. The much lower production costs give more room for ideas that are a little bit out of the ordinary. I would say overall that there is still plenty out there, you just have to look a little harder for it, and quite possibly outside the mainstream.


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## Chary (Jan 28, 2017)

A "few" big hits, "desolate" landscape of games. What? Unless you're a Nintendo fan, 2016 was full of some of the greatest titles we've seen in years. Tons of blockbusters, tons of returns to form, tons of solid indies. What more did you want?

On the remake side of things, I can understand porting last gen console exclusives that ran at 30fps/720p and upgrading them to 1080p/60fps, because that helps the games age better. Other remakes will add in features that should have been in the original game in the first place. Games that were not in HD in the first place also should get a free pass on the remake boat, as it's also modernizing those titles as well. 

Games like Borderlands or Sleeping Dogs or Tomb Raider getting "HD" ports though? I think they're completely unneeded and there only to drain consumer's pockets like you said.


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## daniel26150 (Jan 28, 2017)

People are stupid they buy the stuff, game developers and publishers keep doing it, just tell people not to buy remasters and remakes!! tell people the xbox one is for xbox one games!! not 360 games!!


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## Jack Daniels (Jan 28, 2017)

daniel26150 said:


> People are stupid they buy the stuff, game developers and publishers keep doing it, just tell people not to buy remasters and remakes!! tell people the xbox one is for xbox one games!! not 360 games!!


don't take my right away to play the only good games there ever been on a new console will you? i can't help dev's can't make any real products except copying those already made by another...


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## Subtle Demise (Jan 28, 2017)

Innovation!? What's wrong with you, boy? Gotta stick with what sells!


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## mightymuffy (Jan 28, 2017)

Veho said:


> Extremely high production costs and the need to play it safe kinda curb the innovation. Nobody wants to risk that kind of money on a hit-or-miss idea that's not guaranteed to return the investment. Also in order to increase sales titles must be multiplatformers and have to conform to what all platforms can run. So we end up with a ton of action adventure games, GTA clones and slow FPS games, and HD remakes. Innovation is limited to small budget indie titles.
> 
> Of course there are exceptions to all  of the above, but that's basically the state of things.


This, all day long. Or to be precise, all year long - not only in 2016, but the years before it, and 2017 too... The industry would really need to collapse into itself before we can see the kind of innovation we all want, and a collapse isn't something we'd want either. 
It's a shame of course, but there's always the indie market, or you can simply dip in to your retro collection, while plodding your way through some mildly brain destroying me-too AAA title. And there are exceptions too, titles like Last of Us and Bloodborne don't offer anything new but what they do offer is so expertly made that we don't care anyway.
I'm still here for the ride anyway!  Can't wait for the upcoming Mass Effect and Zelda myself, despite both games being done countless times before!


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## EthanAddict (Jan 28, 2017)

The innovation is hiding somewhere in the universe, find it...


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## yoyoyo69 (Jan 28, 2017)

The industries been moving in this direction for a decade or 2. They saw how the movie and music industry operate and clearly felt they should abuse their customers to the same extent (clearly more).

Everything has been moving to a subscription model. they haven't been happy just making extortionate amounts fir quite some time. the want us to pay monthly to THEIR services.

This falls apart when the market is divided by numerous service providers. In a decade or 2 more there may less as the popular providers lock down their control ,  it could go the other way of course, who knows.

On top of subscriptions the ip rehashes the expect you to buy is ridiculous. It is becomming very clear that backwards compatibility is intentionally withheld . Nintendo have always resold the same cut and paste, at least it still used to feel fresh.

Sony and Microsoft introduce backwards compatibility when desperate  (when the other has more of market, as witnessed with PS3 - there was more in play here with hardware differences though and of course Xbox One)


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## yoyoyo69 (Jan 28, 2017)

I've suspected it for a while, but don't post due to all the "you can't say 3" comments.

But Valve have not made a game for a while, infact, I'm sure they even outsource their developing mostly (CSGO).

They are like Rockstar with their ip and polish them to a high standard and most are held in high regard.

I feel they been waiting for something, pissibly something special, not just a higher resolution, slightly better physics. They want a game that goes down in history as the best of it's generation and maybe even a couple of generations after.

VR is very immersing and offers them something not only very different, but new. They can finally make a game that us not simply and update.

But chicken / egg. Valve are in a very unique position in that they can ( and often do) what ever they like, if they feel it worthwhile. They can afford for the game to not be a record breaker in sales, but I doubt they would go this route.

They are developing and when the uptake of vr is reasonable  (a long , long way to go still) + the price of hardware is acceptable for serious sales we will get news, maybe before.

Maybe they'll test vr publically with CSGO. They have Left for Dead (3?) also and alit if resources have been transfered to source 2. Likely a Portal 3 and rumours of a new ip recently, maybe this is the vr "test" game to also increase sales.

I sometimes think too much . A lot  of nonsense . .....


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## Cyan (Jan 28, 2017)

big companies are relying on their past success to keep their incomes. they started small, but can't go back small anymore so they keep their IP and make new episodes or remake and HD of it.
though, some sub-teams can make smaller games, like Setsuna. (please don't complain about snow, you never complain about rocks, forest or plains in other games!)
But they need to be able to afford making dedicated sub-teams.

On the other side, there are "indies", which are the type of games reflecting the 80's 90's spirit, developing different and innovative games, but I think a lot of their games are under the radar and too few people are taking interest in them. I don't buy or even feel interested in them, main reason being the graphics and look of their games. they look somehow unfinished and too much "80's". Some people like 8bit graphics remake (again, nostalgia !) but most indies are stuck in 8bit nostalgia for lack of resources and real talent. now everybody can make a game with 3 lines of code (flappy bird?) which sells millions of copy, why bother making something better?

what we might need is the idea of indie's developers with resources of big companies.
Something like sponsorship or traineeship, a big compagnie providing their resources for new comers. Anime industry is doing it once a year! the new school graduated animators are making a name in the industry thanks to that idea! 4 or 5 big animation studios are selecting a project from different schools to "make new animation project and IP", providing a new vision and something different that the old industry wouldn't have thought about. It could fail. that's the game.


That doesn't mean there's no good indie games or innovative from big companies. they are just longer to develop and release. like Veho said, they are risking their money if the project fails to sell well enough.

I enjoyed playing Oxenfree last year (little game from a sub-team of TellTall), and that's probably the only indie game I found myself interested in.
I'm waiting for the new IP Horizon zero dawn, even if it's a new IP it still a well known game genre (tomb raider, last of us), but it's a new approach in that game genre from the developers used to make Killzone FPS.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jan 28, 2017)

Cyan said:


> On the other side, there are "indies", which are the type of games reflecting the 80's 90's spirit, developing different and innovative games, but I think a lot of their games are under the radar and too few people are taking interest in them. I don't buy or even feel interested in them, main reason being the graphics and look of their games. they look somehow unfinished and too much "80's". Some people like 8bit graphics remake (again, nostalgia !) but most indies are stuck in 8bit nostalgia for lack of resources and real talent. now everybody can make a game with 3 lines of code (flappy bird?) which sells millions of copy, why bother making something better?



I like the stories and success of Gunvolt, Spelunky, Binding of Issac, that one sandbox game with blocks, but I really want to see some of the cancelled games (M$ WTF??) or yet-to-be-released (M$ WTF??) games like Cuphead/Jugface and games that end in '3' that weren't on a system with '2' before 2020.

I blame the state of gaming on people expecting too much and people trusting people who are paid for reviews.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 28, 2017)

Games, much like movies, have become multi-million dollar investments that take several years to complete, that's what happened. They take a considerable amount of effort and manpower to produce, to the point that failure is not an option as it could mean that the studio responsible might get shut down by the parent company if the returns are not satisfactory. Not only that, but even "breaking even" or making a "modest" profit is not enough, as investors want their slice of the cake, and if the slice is small or non-existant, they could've just as easily spent the last few years producing something better instead. The game has to be an absolute blockbuster, anything below that par is not enough. As such, companies will always push for the surefire ideas that are a guarantee for sales unless the climate seems particularly good for new ideas or the sales pitch that landed on the board's desks is excellent. We see it all across the board, from Activision's yearly installments of Call of Duty to Nintendo's Pokemon series. Games are firmly embedded in the entertainment business, and just like with movies, you have to slog through an endless sea of Marvel and DC movies every year to find the few diamonds hidden in the rough that somehow managed to slip through the corporate machine, and even those are likely to be bogged down and altered by it compared to the original vision of the creators. That doesn't make them bad games, of course - everyone and their dog liked Guardians of the Galaxy, but since you all liked it so much, you're getting 50 sequels and tie-ins that are already in production before the sequel's even out, creating a whole saga for one film that worked out. That's how your sausage gets made, and you're either okay with that and try to pick the good games out of the lot *or* you go Indie and play much more varied, but also smaller, low-budget, simpler games that are often experimental or innovative, for better or worse.


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## DinohScene (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm going to disagree on Halo.

Halo CE got remastered for 360 yes. however, Halo 2 hasn't gotten the anniversary treatment for 360.
Having Halo 3 with upgraded capabilities is also neat.

Those two games do make it worth it.
Luckily, the online maps of Halo 2 etc are also in MCC.

Granted, it's not worth the 50 or 60 quid pricetag but the complete Halo series (apart from Reach) on 1 disc isn't bad.
Especially considering they completely redid all the cinematics.


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## Steena (Jan 28, 2017)

There's room for both innovation and tradition. I think the most important factor is balancing genre/archetype saturation, which has always been a consistent problem with the industry every since the beginning.

I'll take a relatively lazy remake of a genre we don't see anymore but I wouldn't care all too much for giant open world #885 right now, for example.

In the end, the mass consumer spends money badly for everything, not just the bad HD remakes.


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## Tigran (Jan 28, 2017)

I have no problems with remakes for older, hard to get games or games that could be worked on. And I mean re-makes.. Not remasters. 

But another problem is that people want to much out of the games graphics, and thats where a LOT of the problems are starting to come from. It takes a lot of time and money to do HD, and even more for the eventual 4K (Sorry.. I seriously doubt the Scorpio is going to successfully do 4K and still be affordable). After all, a game that sold close to 10 million copies was deemed a failure. That's... not good. That's throwing away bad money. And even with FFXV I have to wonder if they truly made their money back on that. Or the last Guardian. 

Game companies are going to have to accept that they can't keep spending millions upon millions on graphics.. when games like Shovel Knight come out and kick about 90 percent of their butts.


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## Cyan (Jan 28, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Granted, it's not worth the 50 or 60 quid pricetag


ahhh, price is also something I don't understand on ports and HD remake.
if they make a new game, with new resources (going from 2D to 3D, like FF7) I understand they are spending a lot of money into the project and they have to sell it the full price.
but I don't understand ports being sold the same price than a new release, even more when the said game is already in low price on older system. (Skyrim, I'm looking at you).

they press a button to recompile for the new platform, and sell it full price. ....oh, wait, I know why : people are buying it anyway.


Though, I really like port for series which are spanned over multiple consoles, being able to play all the series on the same console is nice. kingdom hearts having all their games on PS4 is nice for someone new to the series (and milky for users who will buy them again and again even if they already played the old ones).
There are still some series which I wanted to see that started on old consoles, but they don't make ports for the first game (borderlands collection includes only 1.5 and 2, where is the first one???)


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## H1B1Esquire (Jan 28, 2017)

Tigran said:


> And even with FFXV I have to wonder if they truly made their money back on that.



Maybe Kingsglaive is the preparation for the future.
'Hey, you like that one franchise touted for it's amazing graphics? Come see the movie from the game we didn't include so we could get more in returns and we'll even give you 5% off DLC that's already on the disc, but locked to you.'

I was actually stunned by RE:7 and appalled at RE: whatever-the-fuck-that-shit-is movie. I would have paid $20.00 to see RE:7 in a Cinemax.


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## DinohScene (Jan 28, 2017)

Cyan said:


> ahhh, price is also something I don't understand on ports and HD remake.
> if they make a new game, with new resources (going from 2D to 3D, like FF7) I understand they are spending a lot of money into the project and they have to sell it the full price.
> but I don't understand ports being sold the same price than a new release, even more when the said game is already in low price on older system. (Skyrim, I'm looking at you).
> 
> ...



Well, In all honesty, I would get the entire KH series on PS4.
Controls would be better as well as every game is in its upgraded GFX mode.
Aesthetically more pleasing as well.
But yes, the pricetag is usually to steep ;/


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## Tigran (Jan 28, 2017)

Since money is tight and I wanted KH, I have not gotten RE:7 yet.

And I was waiting on some opinions on it from friends that have similar tastes to mine.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jan 28, 2017)

Tigran said:


> Since money is tight and I wanted KH, I have not gotten RE:7 yet.
> 
> And I was waiting on some opinions on it from friends that have similar tastes to mine.



I'd go for KH just because by the time you beat KH, RE:7 will be on sale. Plus, you know Capcom is going to get you with DLC.


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## dimmidice (Jan 28, 2017)

Innovation is overrated. If a game is fun that's all that matters.


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## Thesolcity (Jan 28, 2017)

I know it came out at the end of 2015, but Rainbow Six: Siege is pretty innovative, and still supported throughout the end of 2017. Innovation is there, just look where you normally don't.


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## happydance (Jan 28, 2017)

Well, nintendo been getting away with releasing the same games with minimal upgrades with graphics and such and little inovation, why not others can do it too?

I think the problem is they release some games annually which kindda gets boring. Nintend does not release a mario game every year so its not that much noticable even though its the same point a to point b saving the princess on different map/levels


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## Pluupy (Jan 28, 2017)

Pokem said:


> I'm okay with remakes, but do a remake on games people haven't played (or at least most)
> Like, Final Fantasy 6 for example (imo, this is the best game in the franchise.)
> Great game. I'm sure many FF fans will rise, build hype, and drag the modern gamers along with the hype and it will end with a colossal success.
> Some scenes in FF6 would look absolutely beautiful with FF15 quality graphics, along with the amazing story and one of the most epic, cruel, and mindtwisted villain I've ever seen.


Ugh I don't get why people call FF6 "the best". Yeah, people's preferences and all that, but FF6 was one of the worst Final Fantasy games in terms of pacing. I hated the inconsistent plot progression amongst the characters (seriously game, PICK SOMEONE TO STICK WITH). There was no solid party to level. I despise that in JRPGs. Give me a group of people I know I can stick with and form a solid strategy! (another reason why I hated Aeris' death in FF7...) Then they give you this false sense of security near the end of the game where everyone is altogether again but then the game pulls the same shit again and splits everyone up like an episode of Scooby Doo. Fuck that.

I like that each character had a moderate amount of development behind them, I suppose. I think the characters and the music is why people say FF6 is the best. In terms of plot, gameplay, environment, and...pretty much all else, the game was mediocre and awful.

FF6 Plot in a nutshell: Dull dull dull. Oh Edgar! Dull dull dull. Boo fucking hoo the empire...Oh Kefka! Baww.

I mean at least FF13 had gorgeous sceneries, music, AND character development. FF13 is better than FF6 in my book. FF13 had that bullshit inconsistent party jibbajabba, tho.

FF Tactics A2 takes the throne as the best Final Fantasy since it wins in all departments except plot where mah boi FF4 sits comfortably.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jan 28, 2017)

@Pluupy 
Sazh Katzroy < Tellah Sage, Barrett, Moogle, Chocobo, Cactus, any version of Cid, Squall, Riku, Wakka, Iggy Iggs, Quina, Red XIII (in no particular order)


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## netovsk (Jan 28, 2017)

What I disagree with:

Overwatch is not innovative at all, it's an improvement over Team Fortress 2 with a big price tag on it. Splatoon was innovative.

Final Fantasy games are not exactly sequels, they are entirely different stories characters and worlds that just happen to have Chocobos and Phoenix Down (but Bravely Default also does have Phoenix Down, doesn't it?)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

"Tales of" series don't carry high numbers with it, but revolves around the same concept.

Other than that, I think you're on point. Good post.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

But I don't have this need of change and innovation when it comes to 3DS. I think its games are perfect, I don't want it to change, just to improve. IMHO it's the best console ever made but that's just me.


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## endoverend (Jan 28, 2017)

Cyan said:


> ahhh, price is also something I don't understand on ports and HD remake.
> if they make a new game, with new resources (going from 2D to 3D, like FF7) I understand they are spending a lot of money into the project and they have to sell it the full price.
> but I don't understand ports being sold the same price than a new release, even more when the said game is already in low price on older system. (Skyrim, I'm looking at you).
> 
> ...


Yeah I almost wanted to make an addendum about price, which is a huge issue. Not only are they selling the same games but they're selling them at the same or higher price.


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 28, 2017)

there's simply not unlimited ways to make new games. thats a fact, overwatch may be fun, but come on, its not the first game of its genre with special characters and abilities and it wont be the last. but it has high production values and sexy character designs all around so it worked out good.


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## Harumyne (Jan 28, 2017)

In Japan Psilocybin was outlawed in 2004, arguably games went downhill after the DS, that's just Nintendo though! The next thing will be online superworlds, VR will play a big part and people will be able to buy land and materials to build things, there will be radicals who will try and destroy what you claim as yours and there will be users elected as 'presidents' who will have a sway in what is passed and what isn't. Arguably there will be a police force too, shops and products.


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 28, 2017)

endoverend said:


> Yeah I almost wanted to make an addendum about price, which is a huge issue. Not only are they selling the same games but they're selling them at the same or higher price.


creating these high definition graphics and textures, sadly, is among the most time consuming and expensive parts of making games. and the price, unfortunately, has to reflect that a little.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Elemi said:


> In Japan Psilocybin was outlawed in 2004, arguably games went downhill after the DS, that's just Nintendo though! The next thing will be online superworlds, VR will play a big part and people will be able to buy land and materials to build things, there will be radicals who will try and destroy what you claim as yours and there will be users elected as 'presidents' who will have a sway in what is passed and what isn't. Arguably there will be a police force too, shops and products.


cant you do that in second life for decades already?
pretty sure there's people who actually got rich selling land and homes in second life


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## AdamFX990 (Jan 28, 2017)

Playing remakes always just makes me want to play the original game. Lol


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## Tigran (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't know.. I'm sure the Crash Remake will be leagues above the original.


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## LittleFlame (Jan 28, 2017)

I very much love the fact that they finally remastered Dead Rising, it's been way too long and they should've done that a long time ago


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## Tigran (Jan 28, 2017)

It was a last Gen game.. Not really needing it yet. x.x;


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## Deleted User (Jan 28, 2017)

Bladexdsl said:


> GTA clones


I can only think your talking about Saints Row. That's a stretch but that's only 1. I wouldn't go as far to say something like Sleeping Dogs or Metro Redux is a GTA clone.


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## Harumyne (Jan 28, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> creating these high definition graphics and textures, sadly, is among the most time consuming and expensive parts of making games. and the price, unfortunately, has to reflect that a little.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I played second life and I think it was poorly executed honestly, given the tech of the day it wasn't too bad but we need something new that takes advantage of the VR GPUs we have today, and better shaders too, second life is like playing a game inside the Google Sketchup renderer and it's blah..


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## Deleted User (Jan 28, 2017)

Yeah, the whole game industry is starting bank off nostalgia.  Indies are doing this too, what with their "retro" graphics and music and stuff.  Very rarely, though, do I see retro graphics done right (i.e. Shovel Knight, Sonic Mania, etc.).  It pains me as a retro gamer to say rhis, but I'm getting sick of pixel art.

I think it was I Hate Everything who said something along the lines of this once, I forget, but why don't we remake the games that sucked the first time around and make them better?  It makes more sense than remaking games that were good the first time around (other than getting your game good publicity).


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't even care about innovation. I just want less open world stuff. I think open world is interesting when big titles are limited but with so many open world things I'm really losing interest in the concept.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 28, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I'm going to disagree on Halo.
> 
> Halo CE got remastered for 360 yes. however, Halo 2 hasn't gotten the anniversary treatment for 360.
> Having Halo 3 with upgraded capabilities is also neat.
> ...


MC Collection costs 14.99 new these days, it's a bargain considering you get Master Chief's full story bar Guardians and Halo: Nightfall.


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## DinohScene (Jan 28, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> MC Collection costs 14.99 new these days, it's a bargain considering you get Master Chief's full story bar Guardians and Halo: Nightfall.



15 quid?
Mate you get ripped off.
I got it for 8 quid.

In all seriousness, I was talking about launch price.
How the game drops in value over the years kinda is irrelevant to the subject at hand.


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## GamerzHell9137 (Jan 28, 2017)

CeeDee said:


> 2016 was okay. Nothing amazing, games wise, but we got some nice stuff.
> Star Fox Zero was nice...
> As was Paper Mario...
> Kirby Robobot...
> ...


Tbh. most of those look like mediocre games.
And you could include some non Nintendo games when discussing this 

And ditto endo, don't think any game in 2016 made me wow (or was there?) 
The last game that blew my socks off was Walking Dead S1 and now looking at games that released in 2016, even new releases like Dark Souls 3, they just feel like rehashes of the same thing.
I wish we could see more games like Catherine and La Mulana (Not puzzle games, i mean something that's different and not the same FPS, RPGs,AssCreed and stuff)


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## Foxi4 (Jan 28, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> 15 quid?
> Mate you get ripped off.
> I got it for 8 quid.
> 
> ...


I was just talking from the perspective of someone who might buy it today. For 15 quid it's an insane bargain, I happily replayed all the old Halos and I'm approaching the end of 4 now, in preparation for Guardians.


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## Deleted member 412900 (Jan 28, 2017)

.


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## CeeDee (Jan 28, 2017)

GamerzHell9137 said:


> Tbh. most of those look like mediocre games.
> And you could include some non Nintendo games when discussing this



Honestly, I don't play many non-Nintendo games. 
And they're definitely nothing amazing, but I still like them.


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## ItsKipz (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't know, as watered down as the shooter genre is, Overwatch was pretty innovative to me. I've played a lot of TF2, and overwatch feels VERY different to me.


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## endoverend (Jan 28, 2017)

To be honest, I'm not even an Overwatch fan myself. I mentioned it because I think it at the very least deserves recognition for not being a sequel or remaster.


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## DinohScene (Jan 28, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> I was just talking from the perspective of someone who might buy it today. For 15 quid it's an insane bargain, I happily replayed all the old Halos and I'm approaching the end of 4 now, in preparation for Guardians.



Compared for what I paid for it, it's a rip off.

But yeh, doesn't matter what game comes out, in the end, the prices will drop eventually and if you got no morale, you'll just pirate it (if possible)

I've got CE, 2, 3, ODST, Reach and 4 along with CE anniversary.
Already played them all but it's nice to play all of them in true 1080p, full HD GFX n all that bullshit.

*switches to classic mode all the time*


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## Deleted member 412900 (Jan 28, 2017)

.


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## netovsk (Jan 28, 2017)

HavengulZenith said:


> In what way is overwatch an improvement on TF2? It's tf2, but it's ugly, stripped of complex mechanics, and has less variety in gameplay. The only way overwatch is an improvement is that the menus look better. I totally agree about Splatoon tho.



In every way.

Same game modes, capture and payload. Same idea of classes, junkrat = demo ripoff, mercy = medic ripoff, torbjorn = engineer ripoff, widowmaker = sniper ripoff and so on. They just improved over it, getting ideas from mainly TF2 but other games concepts too.

TF2 is amazing, the critic reception on the game and its popularity make it clear. You say it's boring and put up a lot of stuff because you can't really show how different it is to TF2, and still many of you are quick to compare overwatch to Battleborn which is basically a first person MOBA, that's how much some overwatch fanboys live in denial. I call overwatch for what it is, a TF2 ripoff.


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## Deleted member 412900 (Jan 28, 2017)

.


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## chartube12 (Jan 28, 2017)

I think 2017 will be much better.

We get agents of mayhem. Takes place in the saints row universe after Gat & the boss get satan to restore earth in the Saints' image. Yes, thats the canon ending of the saints row series.

The wild cards known has the Nintendo Switch and LoZ BoTW.

For honor, takes the traditional play of the samurai warriors n turns it on it's head with new game play elements.

The mario game taking place in part of the mario bros' earth. I wouldn't be surprised to see sonic adventure costumes or hat transformations for mario. The game was a deciding factor of preordering the switch.


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## DarkCoffe64 (Jan 28, 2017)

This is the reason why most of my purchases went to the indie market. Most AAA games are the same boring slog. At least, sometimes, you can find some originality in indies.



endoverend said:


> Or, we can make the other choice: to demand innovation. We can choose to stop buying these shovels full of ports of remasters, to push indie games beyond their usual limits and lengths, and to urge the AAA industry to create something more original.


Nah, you know that the AAA industries only know to make sequels or "remasters"/ports. Even if we did not buy them, they would still shit out more. It's the only thing they know to do.
As for indie titles, that depends on who's making the game. If they wanna make something amazing *coughundertalecough*, they gotta work their ass hard.


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## flame1234 (Jan 28, 2017)

Games don't need to be innovative to be fun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokoban

I'm pretty sure there's various free versions of Sokoban out there. Knock yourselves out. It's not the best game ever, but it's pretty fun.


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## CathyRina (Jan 28, 2017)

Chary said:


> Games like Borderlands (...) is completely unneeded and there only to drain consumer's pockets like you said.


The rerelease had 4 player local coop splitscreen if you ask me it was great.


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## dimmidice (Jan 29, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> I mean at least FF13 had gorgeous sceneries, music, AND character development. FF13 is better than FF6 in my book. FF13 had that bullshit inconsistent party jibbajabba, tho.


Fuck FF13. Worst (1995+) FF ever. Linear, annoying chars, annoying combat system. did have an interesting world though.


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## Nightwish (Jan 29, 2017)

Innovation is out there in the indies, because they don't cater to whiners that want 4k/60fps get gud games. They can pick a niche and do a polished project of love and be happy with it and get enough to keep going. Recently we got Darkest Dungeon, Undertale, Stardew Valley, Steamworld Heist, Jackbox Party, The Witness, Necrodancer, Factorio, Gungeon, Invisible Ink, Owlboy, Firewatch, Hyper Light Drifter, Duskers, Astroneer, Superhot, Pit People, Age of Decadence, The Long Dark, Quadrilateral Cowboy, Stellar Monarch, Stellaris, Videoball, RimWorld, Kerbal, Inside, ... They're not for everyone (they're mostly not for me either) and they're not trying to be, which gives the freedom to do something different without caring about marketing the hell out of an soulless shell.

Because that is what actually sells, the games that are comfortably familiar and shiny. It sucks if you want, say, an innovative FPS (whatever that means at this point), but that doesn't mean people aren't doing new things. Mostly on Steam and Mobile (where I haven't really paid much attention lately).


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## Xzi (Jan 29, 2017)

B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> Yeah, the whole game industry is starting bank off nostalgia. Indies are doing this too, what with their "retro" graphics and music and stuff. Very rarely, though, do I see retro graphics done right (i.e. Shovel Knight, Sonic Mania, etc.). It pains me as a retro gamer to say rhis, but I'm getting sick of pixel art.


Owlboy would get you loving pixel art again pretty fast I think.  

OneShot is pretty fantastic as well.


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## Jacklack3 (Jan 29, 2017)

Screw #WTFU (Where's the fair use) let's do #WTIASDSROSTAGAA (Where's the innovation and stop dumb stupid remakes or sequels that aren't great at all.)

i think that'll trend right guys?


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## AdamFX990 (Jan 29, 2017)

Jacklack3 said:


> #WTIASDSROSTAGAA


in b4 twitter front page.


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## Tigran (Jan 29, 2017)

dimmidice said:


> Fuck FF13. Worst (1995+) FF ever. Linear, annoying chars, annoying combat system. did have an interesting world though.



I like 13 more than 7.  *Course 9 is still the best!*


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 29, 2017)

Chary said:


> Games like Borderlands or Sleeping Dogs or Tomb Raider getting "HD" ports though? I think they're completely unneeded and there only to drain consumer's pockets like you said.


they had to so ps4 owners would actually have something to play


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## AdamFX990 (Jan 29, 2017)

Bladexdsl said:


> they had to so ps4 owners would actually have something to play



Fucking savage. XD


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## Xuman (Jan 29, 2017)

Great article, I've been feeling the same about remakes and remasters for a while now. I personally believe that Remakes, Remasters, and Rereleases* should be at least 2 generations between each other. The reason I say this is because, typically, each generation is somewhere between 5-7 years apart. This is good because the kids who played the original are now adults and may want to have something of their childhood to play again. But more importantly, it gives a new generation of gamers a chance to play it. Kids that were 6 and 7 are now 16 and 17, so something that their parents woulda said no too, or something that they didn't know about can be enjoyed.

*In regards to Rereleases, I'd like to put Virtual Console, PSN, and whatever Xbox has (I still dont own and xbone) in the spotlight. The fact that it is Rereleasing classic games for cheaper than what they were when they came out, definitely can help those who no longer have the original hard/software to play it, and, once again, the younger generation gets a chance to see what their older siblings/parents played when they were young. The NES Classic edition is perfect for this, in the fact that it gives you 30 games for $60 (Thats $2 a game. Shame that it was limited quantity and scalpers ruined it. Amiibo Deja Vu)

A Remake and remaster needs to warrant a good reason to buy it again, OR at least be $20 cheaper than what it was. A graphical update isnt going to make me jump at a remake if I can find the exact same game on the previous gen for $6 at a used store. If it had DLC previously, then the remaster should have it all included. Thats a good reason to get it.

Give games 2 generations apart, then it aint so bad.


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## netovsk (Jan 29, 2017)

Elemi said:


> In Japan Psilocybin was outlawed in 2004, arguably games went downhill after the DS, that's just Nintendo though! The next thing will be online superworlds, VR will play a big part and people will be able to buy land and materials to build things, there will be radicals who will try and destroy what you claim as yours and there will be users elected as 'presidents' who will have a sway in what is passed and what isn't. Arguably there will be a police force too, shops and products.



Saying games went downhill after the DS implies the 3DS isn't great. Of course it's just my opinion but even smaller budget 3DS games are awesome to me, its library is pure greatness. It's hollowing how many people prefer cellphones over a Nintendo handheld.


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## Imacaredformy2ds (Jan 29, 2017)

*ahem*
*NINTENDO SWITCH *


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 29, 2017)

AdamFX990 said:


> Fucking savage. XD


couldn't resist


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## osaka35 (Jan 29, 2017)

mmm, it's been a while since a game really got me excited and wowed me. portal or journey or goat simulator (shush you. it's fun and weird, k.), ya know? im hoping zelda does. setsuna fizzled, elder scrolls online is fun but more distraction fun, and eroge visual novels distract from sleep. as i just got some nice 2k 144hz ips monitors, so maybe ill play through luigis mansion in hd.


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## RemixDeluxe (Jan 29, 2017)

We may shit on Nintendo for their weak hardware and ass to mouth decisions they make but at the end of the day they are the only ones left coming forth with any innovation to breath life into the industry.

I'd give VR more credit but it's been done before and it's crawling at a snails pace to even make any noticeable impact. I hope I'm wrong and it really becomes the next big step we've been waiting for.


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## Veho (Jan 29, 2017)

RemixDeluxe said:


> I'd give VR more credit but it's been done before and it's crawling at a snails pace to even make any noticeable impact. I hope I'm wrong and it really becomes the next big step we've been waiting for.


I'm looking at headsets as the next step (as an evolution of the display, not as a control scheme), but the full VR is too expensive and cumbersome and impractical and harrowing to be anything more than a showroom attraction at this time, not something you can have in your living room / hangar (because that's roughly the space you need in order to play without hitting into things).


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## Taleweaver (Jan 29, 2017)

I'm really getting sick of hearing this 'innovation' thing all the time. And why the fuck does this "article" deserves a front page mentioning? _EDIT: it's apparently common for threads made by staff, so I can't really blame endoverend for this. Sorry. _C'mon...it's a one sided rant about a buzzword that gamers don't care about in the first place. And as if that isn't enough: it's not even remotely true in the first place. 

Okay....now that I've probably pissed off everyone (especially @endoverend), I guess I'll better elaborate.

Let's start with the buzzword thing. "innovation" is one of those terms that gets thrown around on game presentations a lot and is a staple for bullshit bingo*. While literally, it means "new idea, device or method" (yeah, wikipedia source...I know), it is used in a context that has to convey the audience that they've tweaked and improved their formulae. And there's the rub: I said improved...and that implies that the old one wasn't good or even great. And with an audience that continues to request new entries to existing franchises (I'll get to that) that is pretty tough. Game developers are usually smart enough to tweak whatever made their game great into the best possibility after at most 3 games. After that, all they can really do is mocking about a bit for sake of the audience.

Then there's this whole remake flood. Yes, there are a lot of 'em, but why should we really care? From the OP:


> We can choose to stop buying these shovels full of ports of remasters, to push indie games beyond their usual limits and lengths, and to urge the AAA industry to create something more original.


To be fair, I only disagree with the first word: I'm not part of the "we" who keeps purchasing ports or remasters. I've played almost exclusively indies for at least 3 years now and my backlog is so huge I haven't even begun playing games from last year. And by no matter what standards, 2016 was an AWESOME year for indie games.

But hey...at this point, I don't even bother convincing people anymore. Games like nova-111, severed, the swapper, never alone and nihilumbra tick all the boxes to no matter how you define "innovation" (teslagrad probably as well, but I haven't played enough of it to know for sure), but it doesn't have Mario or Link's face on it so nobody is going to vote for it in the wiiu essential list. I guess people just love complaining about the lack of metroid on the wiiu too much to notice this little gem called axiom verge. But this thread really brings to attention that this isn't so much a matter of oversight or ignorance but a sort of blindness as well. I mean...that very picture of the vive in the article disproves the whole "there is no innovation" part.


> Virtual reality could easily be pointed to as a source of innovation in the industry, but in many ways, it was more like the laughing stock of the industry. Hardly anyone was rushing out to pay the price of another brand new console for a headset featuring a small handful of games that even work with it.


I hate to say it this blunt, but you are just plain wrong here: 
-laughing stock of the industry? Have you even checked reviews on virtual reality? Almost all reviewers praise both the vive and the occulus rift (sony's implementation as well, but more in terms of costs/efficiency).
-it's not somehow less innovative if it's not a market success. With those prices, developers knew in advance the average household wasn't going to rush out to get one. But they're busy succeeding well in many other areas: just a couple days ago I read an article on how a job at railroad maintenance used VR to train new staff.
-new technology mean that devs still have to figure out how things work (like...not giving the player motion sickness). 2016 mostly placed the mark for the hardware...I'm sure that if prices get lower and software gets more tuned to the idea, it'll be a great way to game

I already pointed to the blindness of gbatemp to recognize quality if it isn't a nintendo first party title, but it gets even weirder. The quality of mobile games gets better with each passing year, and in 2016 even nintendo FINALLY took some steps in that direction. The result was that these sorts of stampedes happened throughout the world. It wasn't the first game to use GPS to lure out players into the real world, but Niantic's implementation of pokémon innovated that formula so much that it made the world news. But on a forum like this, mobile games weren't considered games and as such it didn't even got a spot on the nominees for best game of the year. 


*sigh* Look...I really don't want to bash people with a different opinion, but when I call this article a rant I mean it. An article is supposed to make people think, reconsider different possibilities or angles on a situation. This one only reinforces an already popular stance on gaming by minimalizing or even leaving out clear examples of the exact opposite of what the subject is about.

There's this saying I once picked up: "you don't perceive the world as it is but rather in the way that you are". Those who mindedlessly agreed to the article or put a "love" on it would do well to take that into account.Truth is we're being bombarded with games that excel in new ways, brought into ways that are different or strange. This isn't always a good thing (I honestly don't care that nintendo increased their rumble function to a new height...but that also doesn't make it less innovative), but it is certainly there. And if you can't find it...erm...sorry, but I sort of pity you. I gotta admit: in the beginning of the '10ies (tenties? In any case: 2010, 2011, early 2012) I also perceived games as being all samey. Then I started following indie games (and to a lesser degree: mobile games) and never looked back.


PS: I guess this is off-topic, but board games are also sort of doing a renaissance thing. The old days of boring monopoly or trivial pursuit are long gone: nowaday's board game developers have a very good understanding of what makes games fun and have as such really increased the overall quality of what you find in a game store.


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## dimmidice (Jan 29, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> I'm really getting sick of hearing this 'innovation' thing all the time. And why the fuck does this "article" deserves a front page mentioning? C'mon...it's a one sided rant about a buzzword that gamers don't care about in the first place. And as if that isn't enough: it's not even remotely true in the first place.


It's because it's a post by a staff member. How this thread is news at all I don't understand either. I guess his opinions are just that important.


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## Veho (Jan 29, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> I'm really getting sick of hearing this 'innovation' thing all the time. [...] _a buzzword that gamers don't care about in the first place._


Speaking as a gamer, that's not true.


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## DaFixer (Jan 29, 2017)

I do like remakes, now i'm busy playing Resident Evil 4 on the PS4. I played this game first on the GameCube,PS2 and then again the GameCube version on the Wii.
I must say, i'm very happy with this PS4 port, the game runs very smooth and in 1080p and 60FPS and is cheap 15 euro.
Love to see more off those HD remakes, only if it done right. Not like those shitty HD remakes off Silent Hill 2 and Zone of Enders....
But also love to see more unique games, I get sick off all those COD clones and Fifa games.


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## foob (Jan 29, 2017)

The bigger the gaming budgets get, the more risk-averse the management. 
Lots of games are innovative, but the customer has become 'meh' to the innovations. Including those in the links. In the last 10 years alone, gaming has changed immensely. Now please buy the "complete" edition with all DLC integrated. 

In other news...
One day I hope to partake in this practice of buying a game within 2 years of its release. At my rate, I hope to catch up to 2016 sometime in 2021.


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## netovsk (Jan 29, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> mmm, it's been a while since a game really got me excited and wowed me. portal or journey or goat simulator (shush you. it's fun and weird, k.), ya know?



Wow to each its own, Journey was one of the worst video game console softwares I ever used (I refuse to call that a game). Goat simulator is a joke turned into a cash cow, it was fun(ny) for like 30 seconds then I never touched it again.


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## osaka35 (Jan 29, 2017)

netovsk said:


> Wow to each its own, Journey was one of the worst video game console softwares I ever used (I refuse to call that a game). Goat simulator is a joke turned into a cash cow, it was fun(ny) for like 30 seconds then I never touched it again.


journey was visually neat and new(and its storytelling was refreshingly cool),and goat simulator was a joke game that surprisingly rode that line to success. these are new. they're not just imaginitive ways to do yet another first person shooter in space with Marines, they are their own thing. clever outside the box or clever inside the box, yeah?

anyway, they surprised me and kept me playing because of the imaginiative differences. why i mention them. to each their own though, my taste is hardly universal :3


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## flame1234 (Jan 29, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> And why the fuck does this "article" deserves a front page mentioning?


It's called an editorial. In case you don't know what it means: https://www.google.com/search?q=editorial
That definition says "newspaper" but it could apply to any publication, even a website. It also says by or on behalf of an editor, but really it could be any of the publication's writing staff, and "guest editorial" is also a thing. A lot of editorials have disclaimers on them that says it is the opinion of the person who wrote it and not necessarily the publication.

A lot of publications have a special section for editorials. GBAtemp doesn't have enough of them for that. It would be good if they labeled them though.


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## Taleweaver (Jan 29, 2017)

Veho said:


> Speaking as a gamer, that's not true.


Granted, it's a generalization with more than a few exceptions (heck...I care for innovation as well. But I do seek out those games rather than assuming they don't exist). The point I was trying to make is that innovation is far less requested or obliged by the overall audience than said audience usually thinks.

Take a look at that wiiu essential list. Amongst the highest scoring list, the majority is just another rehash of a standardized formula or even a straight up port. The games I mentioned in my previous post (nova-111, severed, the swapper, never alone and nihilumbra) have, at best, a handful of votes combined. You can call them hidden gems, except that they're not exactly hidden. They just don't get any screen time or word of mouth, and as such fly under the radar. It in itself is pretty understandable (face it: we buy nintendo products for their software. We may care about 3rd party support, but it's not as if we're going to change our purchasing habits), but it gets annoying if those games are dismissed almost on purpose.

Perhaps a better analogy is if your friend complains about the lack of food variety in McDonalds. You point out that there are plenty of fastfood joints or even regular joi...erm...restaurants in the near vicinity, but he insists on going to McDonalds, and dismisses other food places as insignificant. The end result is that McD is filled with customers with an increasing grudge because they're sick of french fries but who still refuse to leave, while other restaurant owners scratch themselves over the head wondering why their restaurants aren't filled with people wanting something different.

Oh, I had another argument about this a couple months ago. Said roughly the same thing about games just being all samey. By pure coincidence, I had listed a full 100 great alternative games somewhere. So I copy-pasted that for him here. I could've predicted his answer. It was along the lines of "yeah, well...okay, it's a list. But it's not the sort of innovation_ I_ want...".


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## endoverend (Jan 29, 2017)

@Taleweaver I do agree that there are plenty of innovative indie games out there, I even mentioned a few notable ones in the article. However I don't think we should just play only indie games and dismiss the companies with the highest budgets. Why should small developers be the only ones to try something new? I mean I understand the economics behind it, but personally I would prefer if indie games, currently the only games that try anything new, were being made by devs that weren't, well, indie. Higher budgets can mean greater length and production value.


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## Taleweaver (Jan 29, 2017)

endoverend said:


> @Taleweaver I do agree that there are plenty of innovative indie games out there, I even mentioned a few notable ones in the article. However I don't think we should just play only indie games and dismiss the companies with the highest budgets. Why should small developers be the only ones to try something new?


I don't dismiss those companies either: I just played Ori and the blind forest (made by microsoft), and while I hear they're not great, ubisoft dabbles the AC-formula a bit with their chronicles-series. Granted, there's still quite a gap between indies and AAA-titles (the ones I mentioned are about the only exceptions I know). But sorry: I don't see a reason why we _shouldn't_ dismiss those large companies, at least when it comes to innovation. It's been said before, that huge budgets comes with huge responsibilities. Going all out on innovation (say...like splatoon) is a huge risk, and I really don't blame game developers in charge of those budgets to keep things safe: producers REALLY won't like you if your audience ends up not liking the result. Whole companies have gone bankrupt because of that.
But really: is it so bad if AAA-titles end up mimicking (or perhaps perfecting?) parts that originate from indies? I mean...I haven't played it, but surely fallout 4 didn't suffer because it had crafting in it?


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## netovsk (Jan 29, 2017)

I'm not ALL against remakes, I would love SEGA to proper remake and localize Shining Force III, Phantasy Star I-IV and some arcade-ish titles like Alienstorm and Golden Axe with online multiplayer where it's due and current gen graphics with 60fps.


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## specht (Jan 29, 2017)

I might be a bit biased since I was one of the relatively few who jumped at the chance to buy a commercial VR headset, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss VR as innovation in gaming because of the price of entry or the quality:quantity ratio of titles available.  I mean, you can increase resolutions ad nauseam and never have the same impact the jump from sprites to polygons had.  When I got a DK2 in 2015 and messed around with DolphinVR for the first time, playing my favorite Nintendo games from my childhood such as Mario Kart, Windwaker, Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime from _inside the game _was, well, pretty cool to say the least.

Now, after 7 months of owning a Vive I admit it doesn't get as much use as it did during the first couple months, but every so often there's something that'll pull me back in.  A new gun or mode in H3VR, or a Doom 3 mod making the game fully playable in roomscale. When you wade through the sea of early access waveshooters there are quite a few innovative gems to be found.  And 2 of the games I'm most looking forward to in 2017 are Fallout 4 VR and Doom VR.

At the end of the day it's all just baby steps to a world where traditional gaming and VR gaming will be done on the same AR devices through virtual monitors or environments that encompass your entire vision.


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## needhelp3ds (Jan 29, 2017)

I think you can tell what i liked best about horror games in 2016...


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## invaderyoyo (Jan 30, 2017)

netovsk said:


> Wow to each its own, Journey was one of the worst video game console softwares I ever used (I refuse to call that a game). Goat simulator is a joke turned into a cash cow, it was fun(ny) for like 30 seconds then I never touched it again.


I'm with you about Journey. Yeah, it was pretty, but it was so freaking boring. No idea how it got so popular.


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## anhminh (Jan 30, 2017)

"Innovation" and "gimmick" are just the same word but one mean "winner" and other mean "loser".

I had seen many game being deemed "gimmick" because of their innovation gameplay, and there are no place for loser in the race so they eventually get kick out for more sequel and remaster. I mean why sell something that may not work for something that already work?

Now look back at it, only Nintendo are the last one still try to bother with the innovation in their game, and people are ridiculous them for that and hope them fail so they can make more smartphone clone games with their ip.


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## flame1234 (Jan 30, 2017)

One-Two-Switch looks innovative. Breath of the Wild too.
There's also:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsTheSameNowItSucks
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase

I hope that makes sense without further explanation.


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## TVL (Jan 30, 2017)

This has been going on for a very long time now, kind of used to it after what 10+ years of never ending sequels. Making an AAA title is so expensive nowadays that if it tanks it can bankrupt a studio. But I think it evens out when selfpublishing has become so easy, there is more innovative games being made now than ever before. Just play the games you like, problem solved.


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## AdamFX990 (Jan 30, 2017)

[QUOTE="TVL, post: 7057186, member: 20662"Just play the games you like, problem solved.[/QUOTE] 
Also, don't buy games you don't want to play.


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## netovsk (Jan 30, 2017)

TVL said:


> Just play the games you like, problem solved.



There is this ecossystem feeling in game software nowdays which makes people hate towards a specific game because they feel it draws out manforce from a sequel or another game from the same studio they want. Let alone multiplayer games, where the need of a constant influx of players to keep them alive encourage trolls to come up online bashing what they think are competing games with "people still play this?", "don't buy this turd, play that other game instead" and "the game I play is better".

I know there are worthy indies but I believe the load of indie and cellphone games clutter the storefronts and they should revive something akin to Nintendo Seal of Quality because with the relatively low cost of developing an indie game plus the low risk of digital distribution we are back to 1982 Atari's E.T. era where they shove anything for a quick cash grab.


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## Flame (Jan 30, 2017)

flame1234 said:


> One-Two-Switch looks innovative. Breath of the Wild too.
> There's also:
> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsTheSameNowItSucks
> ...



if you really think 1 2 switch is innovative. you bring shame to the flame name.


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## flame1234 (Jan 30, 2017)

Why is it not?
The gameplay seems very strange compared to "normal" games (that use a screen).


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## Flame (Jan 30, 2017)

flame1234 said:


> Why is it not?
> The gameplay seems very strange compared to "normal" games (that use a screen).



its just one big gimmick. do you think it will have the gameplay of a Super Mario Galaxy?


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## Alkéryn (Jan 30, 2017)

Well if you are not happy with current games then do as i, code willingly shity games and force others to play it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Cyan (Jan 30, 2017)

if you are not happy with current games then do as i, play old ones from your huge backlog of games you never completed or even started yet 
I really enjoy old games (no need of remake), lot of hidden gems I wanted to play for a long time. I have just too many to choose from... one or two at a time, and I complete them at my own pace, I don't need to complete a game at its release date and throw it away if it's 6month old. I'll start mass effect 2 while Andromeda will be out in a month. I'll play andromeda in few years...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jan 30, 2017)

CeeDee said:


> 2016 was okay. Nothing amazing, games wise, but we got some nice stuff.
> *Star Fox Zero was nice...*
> As was Paper Mario...
> Kirby Robobot...
> ...



Star Fox Zero was... _nice_? Maybe you're using the old definition. If Nintendo re-releases the game for the Switch with traditional controls I'll get it for sure.


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## Deleted member 408979 (Jan 30, 2017)

CeeDee said:


> 2016 was okay. Nothing amazing, games wise, but we got some nice stuff.
> Star Fox Zero was nice...
> As was Paper Mario...
> Kirby Robobot...
> ...



Ywanna know the most recent kirby game ive played.

*KIRBY MOTHERFUCKING 64*

Mario Maker was just a port,and it was lacking.No online play even though the wii u has it? yeah no,gtfo.

Bravely second and severed tho.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

we got an acnl update,which made the game a trillion times better


Fates (wait was that in 2k16 or 15?)


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## Fronic (Jan 31, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Star Fox Zero was... _nice_? Maybe you're using the old definition. If Nintendo re-releases the game for the Switch with traditional controls I'll get it for sure.


You realize you can play it with traditional controls...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jan 31, 2017)

Fronic said:


> You realize you can play it with traditional controls...


Looking at two screens at once, resetting the camera and motion controls.. is any of this "traditional"? No.


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## Vipera (Feb 2, 2017)

Why do we need innovation, honestly?

This decade's best innovation is freemium: those stupid mobile games that make you pay hundreds of euros to play something that's boring as hell. They are the most profitable and with the biggest player base. Yet they suck.

I miss Angry Birds.


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## Fronic (Feb 2, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Looking at two screens at once, resetting the camera and motion controls.. is any of this "traditional"? No.


 Well you can shut off motion controls, dunno why you would do that. Two screens is standard from both PC and DS lines.


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## jupitersj (Feb 25, 2017)

The last game to blow me away was EverQuest's beta in 1998, and I played for 12 years; so I'm probably not the person to answer this thread... makes me feel old and crotchety.

p.s. Get off my lawn.


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