# Why Fairy Tail is bad



## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

This thread is why I believe that the fairy tail series is not very well done and how the creator Hiro Mashima has let the series down with his poor decisions.

The first issue is the lack of character development how can the main character not change in a emotional way for 400 chapters he has no sense of responsibility or moral maturity. All of the characters are like how they were in the first episode it's just that now they are all friends.

The second issue is that nothing bad happens to the fairy tail members they just happen to stay alive even the crappy side characters that nobody cares about or are even relevant or useful.

The third issue is that they have gone so off track about the plot natsu doesn't even look for igneel the whole reason why we meet him at the start. lucy had a chance to get all the celestial spirit keys and she hasn't even done it.

I think that this is enough ranting to start.


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## Ethevion (Jul 5, 2013)

Sounds like most animes with over 50 episodes.


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## emigre (Jul 5, 2013)

This choice in font size ans colour is completely legible.


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## Ethevion (Jul 5, 2013)

emigre said:


> This choice in font size ans colour is completely legible.


 
I had to use Ctrl+scroll just so I could read it, what a pain.


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## Warrior522 (Jul 5, 2013)

To be fair, Naruto, Luffy, and Goku all do undergo major changes: Naruto goes from a hyperactive pain in the ass to a bitchy, arrogant pain in the ass, Luffy gets his ass kicked a dozen times and realizes he's UP as fuck, so he faces reality and fucks off for two years to train,  and Goku becomes a soulless monster obsessed with fighting and getting stronger until he finally abandons his family to train the reincarnation of the very abomination that nearly slaughtered them all.

Character Development: It ain't all sunshine and roses.


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

Sagat said:


> Sounds like most animes with over 50 episodes.


 
Not really because luffy matured and gained a sense of responsibility and vegeta from dragon ball z went from villain to a anti hero yet in fairy tail none of the main characters change

----

I also forgot to mention how the writer uses fan service to distract readers from how poorly written the story is.


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## porkiewpyne (Jul 5, 2013)

Someone clearly missed the scene when Gildarts roflstomped Natsu.


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## Warrior522 (Jul 5, 2013)

Okay, now the fanservice thing is something EVERY Shonen anime is guilty of. Even well written anime like One Piece are DROWNING in it.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> Okay, now the fanservice thing is something EVERY Shonen anime is guilty of. Even well written anime like One Piece are DROWNING in it.


True, bit compared to Naruto and even OP, Fairy Tail is definetely over the top. Lots of episodes (especially OVAs)  and recently a whole chapter having fan service. And it's not a small amount of it, either. XD
One piece has fan service, but it's not that abusive though. 
Fairy tail, well when they invent stripping magic as an attack in a major plot, it screams fanservice. XD


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> Okay, now the fanservice thing is something EVERY Shonen anime is guilty of. Even well written anime like One Piece are DROWNING in it.


 

That's true but here it feels less subtle because none of the characters are perverts



porkiewpyne said:


> Someone clearly missed the scene when Gildarts roflstomped Natsu.


 

Than he goes into the next fight with the same attitude when other characters get demolished they train and become more serious


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Gourmet-Hunter-C said:


> Than he goes into the next fight with the same attitude when other characters get demolished they train and become more serious


The double post btw is a bit much. Just edit your post next time.


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## Warrior522 (Jul 5, 2013)

Lemme clear one thing up real fast: I've never seen Fairy Tail; I'm just offering comparison with the other big Shonen anime. Honestly, for the most part, I think long Shonen is crap. I loved DBZ as a kid, but looking back, it aged REALLY badly the longer it went on. Naruto is just whiny, horribly written shit, Bleach is a trainwreck of godawful pacing, wasted characters, and atrocious power balances, and One Piece is the one solid, if still flawed(hate the art style and it's slow as hell sometimes) series currently airing.


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> The double post btw is a bit much. Just edit your post next time.


 
sorry


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## weavile001 (Jul 5, 2013)

Gourmet-Hunter-C said:


> That's true but here it feels less subtle because none of the characters are perverts


 
You Forgot Sanji and Brooke in one piece.


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## Silverthorn (Jul 5, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> Okay, now the fanservice thing is something EVERY Shonen anime is guilty of. Even well written anime like One Piece are DROWNING in it.


 

Even if One Piece is drowning in fan service, Fairy Tail is far worse than that.
Also, the humor feels forced and the characters make me constantly want to slap them because of their stupidity.
I didn't really watch the anime (my younger brother did), but I read the manga till the tournament where they have stupid trials between guilds (an Assassin's Creed-like contest and worse...).
It really felt to me as if the writer had completely run out of ideas at this point.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

weavile001 said:


> You Forgot Sanji and Brooke in one piece.


Perhaps,but the humor isn't forced OR abusive, unlike Fairy Tail. XD


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> Lemme clear one thing up real fast: I've never seen Fairy Tail; I'm just offering comparison with the other big Shonen anime. Honestly, for the most part, I think long Shonen is crap. I loved DBZ as a kid, but looking back, it aged REALLY badly the longer it went on. Naruto is just whiny, horribly written shit, Bleach is a trainwreck of godawful pacing, wasted characters, and atrocious power balances, and One Piece is the one solid, if still flawed(hate the art style and it's slow as hell sometimes) series currently airing.


 

Well DBZ after the cell saga toriyama wrote to the fans favour with the over powering of goku and gohan becoming bad. 
One Pieces's slow pacing is due not wanting to go on filler and to keep some sort of distance to the manga. especially seen as the manga writer is in hospital and I like the art style. To be fair to bleach it did have the biggest plot twist ever


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Gourmet-Hunter-C said:


> Well DBZ after the cell saga toriyama wrote to the fans favour with the over powering of goku and gohan becoming bad.
> One Pieces's slow pacing is due not wanting to go on filler and to keep some sort of distance to the manga. especially seen as the manga writer is in hospital and I like the art style. To be fair to bleach it did have the biggest plot twist ever


It did. There's something that keeps Bleach interesting, despite some flaws...
Same for Naruto... I actually find the story imteresting. Not a masterpiece BUT, interesting nonetheless.
It all began when they introduced the character Pain... XD


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## MegaAce™ (Jul 5, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> Lemme clear one thing up real fast: I've never seen Fairy Tail; I'm just offering comparison with the other big Shonen anime. Honestly, for the most part, I think long Shonen is crap. I loved DBZ as a kid, but looking back, it aged REALLY badly the longer it went on. Naruto is just whiny, horribly written shit, Bleach is a trainwreck of godawful pacing, wasted characters, and atrocious power balances, and One Piece is the one solid, if still flawed(hate the art style and it's slow as hell sometimes) series currently airing.


 

I don't get the point with One Piece. It has no plot at all.


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

MegaAce™ said:


> I don't get the point with One Piece. It has no plot at all.


 

A boy who wants to follow his dream and become pirate king and sail across the world. he gets a crew and each member has their own dream except 2 of the 9


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 5, 2013)

i find fairy tail to be much more enjoyable than naruto or bleach atm.

why should the main characters even change? similar to one piece, they simply stand for a certain set of values and they wont let them be compromised.
they dont really have a reason too. its nice to see the bad guys and the morally challenged undergo change though.

and dont tell me you really see character development in one piece. its exactly the same. in fact, it seems kinda worse there. luffy is still as irresponsible with his life and actions as he was at the beginning. he just got more power allowing him to become even more irresponsible.
while aces death was 'tragic', it really didnt seem to have much effect on anyone, specially not luffy.
one piece characters really just get stronger like all other shonen characters. it probably seems like more changes due to constant costume and body updates.
in fact, the way i see it, character development in one piece is always just temporary. there was some development with robin in the water 7 ark. however, after that was over, she behaved just like she did before. only during the water 7 episodes did she act different, ridiculously ridden by guilt and stuff like that.
nami with arlong too. she didnt change much since then. apart from being slightly less afraid to fight.
lysop is still telling lies and being afraid, even though he should probably have changed the most in his two year plight. in reality, all he got was a few new 'bullets' to use. there never was more development than in the episodes where he left the crew to save the ship of his love interest and while he was posing as sogeking (though not so much anymore at that point). since then, its just the same, afraid but yet he somehow goes and fights as good as he can anyway. same old same old.
im really just waiting to see franky run out of fuel when it counts again.


if theres significant character development, its usually from the bad guys too, and most of the time, we only learn about it from the cover shots (like with the cp9, enel or karibou right now)
helmeppo and fullbody are probably examples here. both changed a lot, though they really just became different characters. snotty child turns almost talented man of the law. and huge ego marine captain (?) turned slave for better marine captain


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## porkiewpyne (Jul 5, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> It did. There's something that keeps Bleach interesting, despite some flaws...
> Same for Naruto... I actually find the story imteresting. Not a masterpiece BUT, interesting nonetheless.
> It all began when they introduced the character Pain... XD


I liked Naruto initially because the ninja-in-real-modern-life concept was interesting. But we all know how that went :\
Bleach..... yea nvm



MegaAce™ said:


> I don't get the point with One Piece. It has no plot at all.


Follow your dream. Never give up. Don't be a dick. Ever.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Goddamn. FT's author just cannot accept death as an option.


Spoiler



Ultear didn't even die. She became an old lady, faking her death to her friends.
However, Gray recognized her and knew she was alive.





> I liked Naruto initially because the ninja-in-real-modern-life concept was interesting. But we all know how that went :\
> Bleach..... yea nvm
> 
> 
> Follow your dream. Never give up. Don't be a dick. Ever.


What I find interesting in Naruto is the fact that it INTRODUCES a bit of morality (philosophy)XD


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## Warrior522 (Jul 5, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> It did. There's something that keeps Bleach interesting, despite some flaws...
> Same for Naruto... I actually find the story imteresting. Not a masterpiece BUT, interesting nonetheless.
> It all began when they introduced the character Pain... XD



Honestly, I liked Bleach, but the fucking Arrancar arc just MURDERED it. Slow as all fucking christ and BORING as hell(seriously, did any of us think even for a second Ichigo was going to lose?). By the time they actually got to the good twists and turns of the Decide arc, it was long dead. And the Xecution arc... How much more pointless could that arc have been? It was to solve a problem that was forced to create "drama(read: whiny bullshit designed to make fantards throw a fit)," and just wasted time that should have gone to the current arc, which keeps tripping over itself every other chapter despite having some of the best moments in the series due to focusing on the completely uninteresting protagonist and not the wide variety of interesting characters around him(the same thing that killed everything past the Soul Society arc).

Naruto is just a mess. The main characters are all unlikeable each in their own unique way(Naruto is arrogant and annoying as hell, Sakura is fucking useless because Kishimoto has no fucking idea how to write anything with breasts as anything other than fanservice or "teh dramas," and FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON SASUKE), and once again, most of the side characters go to waste in favor of these three irritants. I enjoy the Rock Lee spinoff more than the main story, as in I actually willingly watch and enjoy it weekly.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 5, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> Goddamn. FT's author just cannot accept death as an option.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 
shes about to die though. she litterally only has time left to say godbye and contemplate her chances of redemption. though yes, that one act of reversing time felt like a slap even for me... i mean, what were the chances of everyone dieing in exactly that one minute?


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## MegaAce™ (Jul 5, 2013)

porkiewpyne said:


> Follow your dream. Never give up. Don't be a dick. Ever.


 
That is no plot. How can every other manga be described as "progressing effin slow" when Luffy still hasn't reached his destination in 700 chapters?


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## Ethevion (Jul 5, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> It did. There's something that keeps Bleach interesting, despite some flaws...
> Same for Naruto... I actually find the story imteresting. Not a masterpiece BUT, interesting nonetheless.
> It all began when they introduced the character Pain... XD


 
The only reason I like Bleach is because of some characters. They come up with really badass characters, but the plot just gets lamer. As for Naruto, it was cool when stealth played a part, you know being ninjas and all.


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> i find fairy tail to be much more enjoyable than naruto or bleach atm.
> 
> why should the main characters even change? similar to one piece, they simply stand for a certain set of values and they wont let them be compromised.
> 
> Well actually luffy powered up to protect his crew after Ace's death also since the time skip he fights more maturely and now he now he even offered to give ace's devil fruit to someone else if he wins it


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## Warrior522 (Jul 5, 2013)

MegaAce™ said:


> I don't get the point with One Piece. It has no plot at all.


 
...have you even read the damn thing? Seriously. Every single character has a distinct motivation, backstory, personality, and goal. Luffy wants to become king of the pirates, and thus must reach the end of the world and take everyone else higher up than him out along the way. Zoro is a swordsman who wants to become the greatest swordsman of all time in honor of his friend who died in an accident when they were both kids. Usopp wants to find his father(his prior goal of becoming less of a coward is already met). Brook wants to meet up with Laboon, a whale he and his crew met and promised to return to and meet up with, but died before they could. And that's not even half of the main 10.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> shes about to die though. she litterally only has time left to say godbye and contemplate her chances of redemption. though yes, that one act of reversing time felt like a slap even for me... i mean, what were the chances of everyone dieing in exactly that one minute?


Yes, about to die as an old lady... She just sped up her aging process.
And they will not ever mention it as her dying ever again. Seriosuly in more than 300 chapters I find it hilarious that no one has died yet. XD


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## Gahars (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> why should the main characters even change?


 
>Anime fans

Bazooper.


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## porkiewpyne (Jul 5, 2013)

MegaAce™ said:


> That is no plot. How can every other manga be described as "progressing effin slow" when Luffy still hasn't reached his destination in 700 chapters?


That almost like saying "OMFG Y U NO FINISH EARLIER HARRY POTTER DAFAQ 7 BOOKS LOL"


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## Warrior522 (Jul 5, 2013)

Gahars said:


> >Anime fans
> 
> Bazooper.



See now, this is why I hate Shonen; the American base is, for the most part, Yaoi fangirls and idiot fanboys who only want to see a billion fights and never have to deal with things like, oh I don't know... creativity?


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 5, 2013)

everyone in those mangas always powers up to protect their shit. they do that in fairy tail as well, even though half the power ups are temporary in fairy tail or only show leftover effects 20 chapters later.
luffy does not fight more maturely though, he just doesnt. its the same as always, one attack after the other, now randomly enhanced with haki that apparently is a swiss army knife among abilities, similar to the sharingan in naruto (it makes your body stronger, enhances your muscles, has 200 jutsus you dont really need to train for etc etc).

or do you think it was reasonable to assume that sucking in all of ceasars poison gas would work out fine and dandy because he was already poisoned once in the past and he somehow is able to channel things from his lungs to his ears now?
or how there was a plan and he completely ignored it to fight in that tournament?
or how he still ignores pretty much anything just as he always did? like not making big mom angry and then even angrier.

hes just the same airhead as he was when the show started. granted, thats exactly what people want in those long shonen series. they just want it to go on the way it did.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> ...have you even read the damn thing? Seriously. Every single character has a distinct motivation, backstory, personality, and goal. Luffy wants to become king of the pirates, and thus must reach the end of the world and take everyone else higher up than him out along the way. Zoro is a swordsman who wants to become the greatest swordsman of all time in honor of his friend who died in an accident when they were both kids. Usopp wants to find his father(his prior goal of becoming less of a coward is already met). Brook wants to meet up with Laboon, a whale he and his crew met and promised to return to and meet up with, but died before they could. And that's not even half of the main 10.


As for Naruto, the main character becomes more mature throughout the story. Sure, he still has that same goal of savng Sasuke but that's not the only point now, (and it took A LOT of episodes to clear that out). With the character Pain, Naruto was forced to discuss the flaws of ninja society, (which functions a lot like outs.) How war is always a result of hatred, and it's a cycle that never ends because it always breed chaos and hate. It's a vicious cycle. It's actually at this moment that I found story interesting because, Naruto has been given a lot of maturity after his mentor died. As a keepsake from him, he decides to find a way to end that cycle of hatred that plagues the ninja world.
Becoming Hokage is no longer just for acknowledgement, it's also to change how the ninja society works. To prevent that events like the Uchiha clan's massacre no longer have to happen again, for one thing. XD That's just hiw I understand it though. Not sure if it makes sense to you. However, I do agree that there are MAJOR flaws, some that are imo unforgivable.
Some characters also have a good character backgrounds, but like you say, some are utterly stupid and just horrendous.


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## MegaAce™ (Jul 5, 2013)

For me, the difference between One Piece and Bleach/Naruto is that we already know where OP will end. Luffy's goal had beed declared from the start: reaching the One Piece and becoming the King of Pirates. So the goal is set and it seems for me that Oda is just making damn fillers into the story, just to make it last longer. The end of Bleach/Naruto is (not quite, but still) unclear, but it's probably a _happy end_ like most shounen, but at least the stories of Bleach and Naruto seem to come to an end soon.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 5, 2013)

Gahars said:


> >Anime fans
> 
> Bazooper.


 
no, thats a legitimate question. i mean, if the characters are inherently flawed in the context of the story, i get it. but thats not the case for this manga. the line of thought is like this: individuality is wonderful and everyone should be as they are, as long as they're not trying to hurt other people.

now that dumb as fuck future diary series on the other hand... that ones protagonist had all the reasons in the world to change. yet he ended up as a 10000 year old emo kid...



MegaAce™ said:


> For me, the difference between One Piece and Bleach/Naruto is that we already know where OP will end. Luffy's goal had beed declared from the start: reaching the One Piece and becoming the King of Pirates. So the goal is set and it seems for me that Oda is just making damn fillers into the story, just to make it last longer. The end of Bleach/Naruto is (not quite, but still) unclear, but it's probably a _happy end_ like most shounen, but at least the stories of Bleach and Naruto seem to come to an end soon.


 

you have to agree though, if becoming pirate king was so easy that you could do it in 3 years, you'd expect that someone else should have had that title already.

also, how is narutos ending not clear? he will be loved by everyone, sasuke will become friendly enough and save the leaf, he probably will either have a child with hinata or sakura (and i guess the artist is going for hinata now) and he will be a hokage just as he wished to be.

he'll also turn around the eternal hateful madara. by sheer force of good will.

bleach... just goes on as well. there will always be room for another dark evil of the past hidden in the shadows of absolute ignorance by everyone important.
but we can see how it will go on. ichigo, as the crossbreed of all the important races will probably end up uniting everyone, realizing that they all have a place in some kind of supernatural order of the universe. he will make the hollows turn into nobodies and eventually fullbodies again, he will quench the hatred in the hearts of the very much nazi like quincy (also fuck all japanese who try to make things cool by throwing in random german words that really make them sound like a bunch of fairies.) and probably return the shinigami to what they once were, guardians of the dead.

he will then have a freak baby that might or might not become the protagonist for a spinoff that will be filled with even bigger monochromatic panels so that you have even less dialog per chapter. god beware he repeats his mistake of not stretching the whole thing from the very first chapter.


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## Gahars (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> no, thats a legitimate question. i mean, if the characters are inherently flawed in the context of the story, i get it. but thats not the case for this manga. the line of thought is like this: individuality is wonderful and everyone should be as they are, as long as they're not trying to hurt other people.
> 
> now that dumb as fuck future diary series on the other hand... that ones protagonist had all the reasons in the world to change. yet he ended up as a 10000 year old emo kid...


 

Because static, unchanging characters are flat, shallow, and uninteresting. Characters should develop as the narrative develops. They should grow, or at the very least, evolve as actual human beings do. The journey a character undergoes is as much spiritual as it is physical. If the events the characters experience don't impact them in any meaningful way, then what's the point?

Character development doesn't somehow mean losing your individuality. The whole "Everyone's a special snowflake!" stance seems more like an excuse for hack writing than anything else.


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> no, thats a legitimate question. i mean, if the characters are inherently flawed in the context of the story, i get it. but thats not the case for this manga. the line of thought is like this: individuality is wonderful and everyone should be as they are, as long as they're not trying to hurt other people.
> 
> now that dumb as fuck future diary series on the other hand... that ones protagonist had all the reasons in the world to change. yet he ended up as a 10000 year old emo kid...
> 
> ...


 

Actually in future diary he isn't emo because he is a happy guy who is god of the third world with Yuno you clearly didn't see the happy ending


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## MegaAce™ (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> you have to agree though, if becoming pirate king was so easy that you could do it in 3 years, you'd expect that someone else should have had that title already.


 

It's pretty convenient isn't it? Luffy's crew aren't the only pirates in the OP universe, so why can't find anyone of the other pirates find the friggin treasure? I would have expected that Blackbeard and his bums would have found it already. But no, everyone's waiting for Luffy to take it. Friggin plot convenience.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> everyone in those mangas always powers up to protect their shit. they do that in fairy tail as well, even though half the power ups are temporary in fairy tail or only show leftover effects 20 chapters later.
> luffy does not fight more maturely though, he just doesnt. its the same as always, one attack after the other, now randomly enhanced with haki that apparently is a swiss army knife among abilities, similar to the sharingan in naruto (it makes your body stronger, enhances your muscles, has 200 jutsus you dont really need to train for etc etc).
> 
> or do you think it was reasonable to assume that sucking in all of ceasars poison gas would work out fine and dandy because he was already poisoned once in the past and he somehow is able to channel things from his lungs to his ears now?
> ...


I do agree on a lot of things you said. The fights are just the same, characters have barely changed in the psychological department. However I like the things they treat in OP.
The whole Pirate vs the World government is interesting at best. I like how they also introduced a few ruthless characters that are "upholders of Justice" and they will do pretty much anything to kill the most notorious pirates. (Akainu)
However, they aren't actually better than the pirates they are trying so much to kill, so there's irony in that. XD
The introduction of the fishmen also brought something I would never think they would show in anime.
*Racism*, pure outright discrimination that isn't founded on any purpose. Reflects a lot in our world too.
It also introduce a whole lot of concepts that makes OP rather interesting, however there are lots of weaknesses as well. 

All the characters have interesting goals and a lovable background, (Nami and Robin, being my most favorite due to it's seriousness)


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## Silverthorn (Jul 5, 2013)

I used to read alot of shonens, but the problem is, the authors always try to make each fight even longer and more epic than the previous one in order to keep the attention of the readers. It generally works for a bit, but then even the constant upscaling stops taking effect when you reach bullshit heights (OMG, it's going to destroy the universe! style). That's one of the reasons I started going for manga with more unconventional stories.
I find Korean manhwas much more inventive, and they don't have all those stereotypes mangas are generally riddled with.

Lol, I'm going to do a bit of propaganda here:


Spoiler



Read Tower of God!
Amazingly devilish plot! Epic battles! Complex and interesting characters!


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> everyone in those mangas always powers up to protect their shit. they do that in fairy tail as well, even though half the power ups are temporary in fairy tail or only show leftover effects 20 chapters later.
> luffy does not fight more maturely though, he just doesnt. its the same as always, one attack after the other, now randomly enhanced with haki that apparently is a swiss army knife among abilities, similar to the sharingan in naruto (it makes your body stronger, enhances your muscles, has 200 jutsus you dont really need to train for etc etc).
> 
> or do you think it was reasonable to assume that sucking in all of ceasars poison gas would work out fine and dandy because he was already poisoned once in the past and he somehow is able to channel things from his lungs to his ears now?
> ...


 

Actually he knows he is immune to most poisons so he redirected the poison away from everyone else. haki can be learned by everyone whereas sharingan can only be learned by members of the uchia clan.


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## porkiewpyne (Jul 5, 2013)

MegaAce™ said:


> It's pretty convenient isn't it? Luffy's crew aren't the only pirates in the OP universe, so why can't find anyone of the other pirates find the friggin treasure? I would have expected that Blackbeard and his bums would have found it already. But no, everyone's waiting for Luffy to take it. Friggin plot convenience.


Cos it's friggin well hidden? And pffft Blackbeard. If anyone would stand a chance it would have been Whitebeard or maybe Shanks. Or the other great Emperors. Hell, for all we know, One Piece may not exactly be what it seems, ie a huge mountain of gold and loot and hookers. I mean, this story is Luffy's story. Not that much point if someone else has already found it no? Complaining like this is like being pissed when Frieza lost just because Goku went Super Saiyan just in the nick of time.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Silverthorn said:


> I used to read alot of shonens, but the problem is, the authors always try to make each fight even longer and more epic than the previous one in order to keep the attention of the readers. It generally works for a bit, but then even the constant upscaling stops taking effect when you reach bullshit heights (OMG, it's going to destroy the universe! style). That's one of the reasons I started going for manga with more unconventional stories.
> I find Korean manhwas much more inventive, and they don't have all those stereotypes mangas are generally riddled with.
> 
> Lol, I'm going to do a bit of propaganda here:
> ...





Spoiler



Well yeah. Long fights are interesting. What I hate though, is the fact that there are people watching anime just fir the fights. The stories can be interesting too, in fact, that's what I love about anime.
Code Geass, Death Note, (obvious ones but they were good!). 
Guren Lagann is also a beautiful work of good always triumphing over evil. However, unlike Fairy Tail, it doesn't hesitate to make one of the most important characters die, in order to make it's point across.
I found SAO to be interesting as well. I
Recently, Shigeki no Kyojin caught my eye as well. It's a masterpiece.
Stein: Gate, Baccano, Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist are masterpieces in their own right too.
I may be rambling but checking these anime would do you no wrong. XD


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## MegaBassBX (Jul 5, 2013)

Finally,somebody who agrees with me FT is shit in all levels.


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## Silverthorn (Jul 5, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> Well yeah. Long fights are interesting. What I hate though, is the fact that there are people watching anime just fir the fights. The stories can be interesting too, in fact, that's what I love about anime.
> Code Geass, Death Note, (obvious ones but they were good!).
> Guren Lagann is also a beautiful work of good always triumphing over evil. However, unlike Fairy Tail, it doesn't hesitate to make one of the most important characters die, in order to make it's point across.
> I found SAO to be interesting as well. I
> ...


 

Most of them I've read or watched, but I'm an avid reader and I always keep looking for new things, and manhwas really have my attention now.
They're mostly 1-strip chapter webtoons, so the translated ones feel really nice to read on a computer, and the different culture makes for different stories as well.
I really recommend manhwas like Trace or The God of High School: they're still Shonen but feel really different and are really amazing.


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## mysticwaterfall (Jul 5, 2013)

My takes:

Fairy Tail: Gave up after the first episode. Read about 5 chapters of the manga, just couldnt get into it.

Bleach: Watched for about 150 eps, then read the manga until about ch 320, then gave up on it beacuse it seems nobody in Soul Society can freaking do anything without Ichigo. I mean seriously, how did survive this long?

Naruto: Watched the Anime until a little after the pain arc, still read the manga. The current arc has dragged on way too long and gets more baffling by the week though...



Spoiler



Let me get this straight. We have all 4 of the previous Hogake's - undead, more or less immortal, and with presumably infinite chakra. Yet what they do? Mostly stand around and make speeches. We also have a worldwide ninja army, and yet the only people fighting are Naruto, Sakura, Sauske, Killer Bee, and Kakashi, who are somehow better then everybody else combined, including all 5 current kage's.


 
One Piece: Never got into the anime, read the manga here and there. I'm about 50 chapters behind. Overall, the plot never seems to really move forward.

Edit: And of couse Dragonball, the epitome of a pointless anime, where you spend entire episodes talking about how awesome your super move is. Or as I usually put it: Goku/other good guy fights bad guy for seemingly no real reason, in a fight that lasts for around 20 episodes until he finally uses a super move and wins after boring the audience to death. I will admit the manga is better, but still, it's one of my least favorite anime.


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## Gourmet-Hunter-C (Jul 5, 2013)

mysticwaterfall said:


> My takes:
> 
> Fairy Tail: Gave up after the first episode. Read about 5 chapters of the manga, just couldnt get into it.
> 
> ...



Well in the case of DBZ kai is a more accurate presentation of how the anime was supposed to be it was just that they stalled the fights to avoid going on filler


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## gamefan5 (Jul 5, 2013)

Silverthorn said:


> Most of them I've read or watched, but I'm an avid reader and I always keep looking for new things, and manhwas really have my attention now.
> They're mostly 1-strip chapter webtoons, so the translated ones feel really nice to read on a computer, and the different culture makes for different stories as well.
> I really recommend manhwas like* Trace or The God of High School*: they're still Shonen but feel really different and are really amazing.


 
I will take your note for it. Any compelling stories is welcome in my book. XD


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## GameWinner (Jul 5, 2013)

I just flat out don't like Fairy Tail.
..or most Shounen series now.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 5, 2013)

Nakama Power > Super Saiyan 10


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 5, 2013)

actually, there are some anime i watched only in the form of x vs y amvs. like bleach. which is slower than dbz was. i mean heck, ichigos bankai is supposed to be a speed type, yet whenever he fights, it always looks like two people are practicing a choreography for a jackie chan movie. cant watch it unless someone speeds up the whole thing while its edited.


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## Skarigon (Jul 5, 2013)

I'll start by saying the following:
I used to watch/read most of the mainstream shonen series, and five years down the line, the only one I can actually keep liking is One Piece. I'll try and explain why.
Naruto: boring arcs, incredibly shallow character development for most characters, doesn't really have a terribly interesting over-arching plot. It has been a really long while since I gave up on it though, it might have gotten better.
Bleach: a clusterfuck of an series with terrible cliches, horrible pacing, horribly imbalanced power levels and powers, and all in all, really bad writing.
Fairy Tail: seems like a rehash of Rune Master(or whatever the author's previous series was called) with terrible plot, terrible characters and horrible amounts of pointless fanservice. It didn't take me long before I hated it.
One Piece: generally simple looking overarching plot that serves mostly as a setting for a character-driven story. I don't really like the fanservice, but it's one of the few things I don't like about OP. Something that might turn people off of it is the slow pacing, but I think it is really necessary for a well fleshed-out story. Most villains in OP are sort of pastiches of actual evils that happen(ed) in our world, and teaching kids through an anime is a pretty cool thing.

If you're looking for shonen to read beyond these, read One-punch man, and Assassination Classroom.

But anyhow, if you're looking for actually really good anime, you'd do well to avoid most shonen and instead go watch masterpieces like Legend of the Galactic Heroes and Cowboy Bebop, or something more modern like Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt, or heck, give something from this spring like Shingeki no Kyojin or Aku no Hana a watch.

Also, goddamn it, read Berserk, and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure(ALL OF IT)

tl;dr: One Piece is my favorite of the "big" shonen series currently running, however there are many much better shows that have finished their run.


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## Deleted User (Jul 5, 2013)

Silverthorn said:


> I used to read alot of shonens, but the problem is, the authors always try to make each fight even longer and more epic than the previous one in order to keep the attention of the readers. It generally works for a bit, but then even the constant upscaling stops taking effect when you reach bullshit heights (OMG, it's going to destroy the universe! style). That's one of the reasons I started going for manga with more unconventional stories.
> I find Korean manhwas much more inventive, and they don't have all those stereotypes mangas are generally riddled with.
> 
> Lol, I'm going to do a bit of propaganda here:
> ...


 
omg yes tower of god i second this! its an amazing manga


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## Black-Ice (Jul 5, 2013)

*Reads Thread*


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## Narayan (Jul 5, 2013)

I still read Fairytail, but I've given up hope after everyone came back alive from the island after 7 years.
I felt betrayed. that little kid standing with the fairytail's mark should've been the new main character.

About Naruto, I'm just waiting for it to end. LOL Sasuke cames out from nowhere(not in reader's POV but if you think about the other ninjas) and declares he wants to be Hokage, and almost everyone magically agrees.

One Piece plot really is slow, there's still very little known about the Will of D.(the only info is that some people has it in it's name and it's related to the lost century. that's it)
It's mostly the adventures of Luffy and his pirate crew as they discover more about the world. It has also been made clear that the crew prefer their adventures to continue rather than actually becoming a pirate king. In the Sabaody arc, Rayleigh offered to tell them about roger's treasure, but they refused because they wanted to discover it themselves. They're in it for the ride, not the glory. The Will of D, World Government, Dragon's Rebellion, it's just part of the path they are treading, not really their main objective.
Unlike the other Pirates in One Piece who actually wants to have power, they are just really more like adventurers who involves themselves in anything in front of them.
Their defeat from the Pacifistas and Bartolomew Kuma, and also the death of Portgas D. Ace slapped Luffy in the face that they are still too weak to actually tread the seas they wish to tread.

oh btw, i'm not sure if it's actually character development, but in the Ennie's Lobby arc, remember Usopp said he'll be leaving the crew because they will abandon Goin' Merry because it can no longer provide them safe travels. Luffy wanted to persuade Usopp since he is their friend, but Zorro and the others firmly said that if Luffy will be the one to beg, they will leave him since he's not fit to be captain. There even though it's painful Luffy had to stop himself because he has a position and order to maintain as a pirate crew.

In the end, I'm not sure if I worded everything properly but I hope you guys get what I mean.

p.s. i don't recall fairytail having much of a perverted character rivaling Sanji or Brook, maybe that's why it doesn't seem to fit much and feel forced.


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## Deleted User (Jul 5, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> I just flat out don't like Fairy Tail.
> ..or most Shounen series now.


 
I don't like fairy tail because it's flat


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## gokujr1000 (Jul 8, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> To be fair, Naruto, Luffy, and Goku all do undergo major changes: Naruto goes from a hyperactive pain in the ass to a bitchy, arrogant pain in the ass, Luffy gets his ass kicked a dozen times and realizes he's UP as fuck, so he faces reality and fucks off for two years to train, and Goku becomes a soulless monster obsessed with fighting and getting stronger until he finally abandons his family to train the reincarnation of the very abomination that nearly slaughtered them all.
> 
> Character Development: It ain't all sunshine and roses.


 
You nailed Luffy and Naruto right on the head.

Goku's character development got flushed down the drain during the entire Buu Saga as we saw him get even dumber than he has ever been, which in reality isn't possible at all.


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## narutofan777 (Jul 8, 2013)

the animation is awful..it looks like cheap filler naruto episodes. the main characters look dum.


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## Warrior522 (Jul 8, 2013)

gokujr1000 said:


> You nailed Luffy and Naruto right on the head.
> 
> Goku's character development got flushed down the drain during the entire Buu Saga as we saw him get even dumber than he has ever been, which in reality isn't possible at all.



I never made it that far; Dropped it after he fed Cell, a soulless monster intent on wiping them all out, a fucking SENZU BEAN and chucked an unwilling and underpowered Gohan at him, and murdered King Kai and his friends when he teleported the self-destructing Cell to his planet. Seriously, what the fuck, Goku. You are a horrible father and a complete fucking moron. That's not even counting the time he stood by and forced Gohan to watch as Videl was nearly killed because he wanted to keep watching the fight. THAT made him hop-skip-and jump over the Moral Event Horizon into a complete monster for me, and I've disregarded anything past the Freiza incident as canon.


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## Black-Ice (Jul 8, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> I never made it that far; Dropped it after he fed Cell, a soulless monster intent on wiping them all out, a fucking SENZU BEAN and chucked an unwilling and underpowered Gohan at him, and murdered King Kai and his friends when he teleported the self-destructing Cell to his planet. Seriously, what the fuck, Goku. You are a horrible father and a complete fucking moron. That's not even counting the time he stood by and forced Gohan to watch as Videl was nearly killed because he wanted to keep watching the fight. THAT made him hop-skip-and jump over the Moral Event Horizon into a complete monster for me, and I've disregarded anything past the Freiza incident as canon.


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## Warrior522 (Jul 8, 2013)

Black-Ice said:


>


 

Kindly elaborate, my good fellow.


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## gokujr1000 (Jul 9, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> I never made it that far; Dropped it after he fed Cell, a soulless monster intent on wiping them all out, a fucking SENZU BEAN and chucked an unwilling and underpowered Gohan at him, and murdered King Kai and his friends when he teleported the self-destructing Cell to his planet. Seriously, what the fuck, Goku. You are a horrible father and a complete fucking moron. That's not even counting the time he stood by and forced Gohan to watch as Videl was nearly killed because he wanted to keep watching the fight. THAT made him hop-skip-and jump over the Moral Event Horizon into a complete monster for me, and I've disregarded anything past the Freiza incident as canon.


 

There wasn't really anything bad about Goku buffing cell up for Gohan. By Goku's and Akira Toriyama's logic Gohan was supposed to replace Goku as the main character after Cell so it made sense to do it for that one incident alone because he knew Gohan had the potential to defeat Cell. But after that in the Buu Saga that became Goku's thing after he spared Majin Buu twice so others could have a go at fighting him which is just disgusting especially considering what happened to everyone because of it.


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## Zerousen (Jul 9, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> That's not even counting the time he stood by and forced Gohan to watch as Videl was nearly killed because he wanted to keep watching the fight.


 

I can't remember anything about the anime, I still haven't finished re-watching the original DB yet, but in the manga, Goku knew that Spopovich wouldn't kill her, and if anyone had interfered, it may have caused people to panic from what was going on.


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## LegendAssassinF (Jul 9, 2013)

MegaAce™ said:


> It's pretty convenient isn't it? Luffy's crew aren't the only pirates in the OP universe, so why can't find anyone of the other pirates find the friggin treasure? I would have expected that Blackbeard and his bums would have found it already. But no, everyone's waiting for Luffy to take it. Friggin plot convenience.


 

The only reason others pirates haven't gotten the treasure is because they liked where they stood as warlords or as top pirates. For the most part the marines really have a hold on what the pirates do after they cross the Red Line. Teach is the only person who could likely be able to get through if the Navy tried to stop him but by going by the battle between Akainu and Aokiji it would seem like Aokiji might easily be able to defeat Teach before Teach really learns how to control his new devil fruit abilities.

Whitebeard likely wasn't looking for One Piece. Remember Roger's Treasure started the new revolution for new pirates to venture out to find One Piece. This is why we have the Super Rookies and the birth of the Eleven Supernovas.

Teach seems like the only one that will be able to get to One Piece but during the whole two year skip they mentioned that Teach has been looking for Top Devil Fruit users to absorb their abilities. Chances are someone will get to it before Luffy and Luffy will have to fight for it (most likely will be Teach). One Piece is only 15-20 years old going by Ace's age so it actually hasn't been that long if you consider that Luffy took years to reach beyond the red line (going by Coby's age and how much older he has gotten since the first episode until now). Most of the other pirates aren't looking for One Piece. Once someone gets One Piece they will be the top target for every pirate in the world and not until Luffy or Teach is ready to take on every pirate they won't be able to claim One Piece.


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## Nathan Drake (Jul 9, 2013)

Well, this thread taught me that Fairy Tail should go on the avoid list. Good thing. I'm just about done catching up on One Piece, and was slightly considering putting that next on the list. With One Piece mentioned though, I guess I'll address some of the thread and fuck quoting blocks of words from the past three pages. I've been watching it from the start for the past couple of months now and am at the fight with Hody Jones on Fishman Island, so the show as a whole is still very fresh in my mind.

On the topic of character development, the characters in One Piece do develop. They just do it seemingly slowly. The amount of episodes/chapters may be deceiving, but do know that the majority of One Piece so far took place in the space of maybe three months prior to the two year time skip. If you were expecting some Earth shattering character development in that time frame, perhaps you haven't actually met real people. If everybody radically changed in the space of a few months, I feel concern would be justified simply because the show would become more unrealistic than a show with superhuman fighting ability and body transforming fruits already is. Some areas of note where noticeable character change happened:

- Nico Robin after the Enies Lobby arc. She went from treating the crew very impersonally, referring to them with names such as Captain, Long Nose, Cook, etc., to actually calling them by name and seeming to truly care about their well being.

- Usopp after the time skip. Prior, he lied all the time (rarely believably), felt the need to hide behind the mask and become Sogeking in order to summon his courage, and was simply lanky and undependable much of the time. Post-time skip, he has muscled up, is more confident, and although he would still rather avoid a fight, he doesn't walk in pants shittingly scared like he once did.

- Chopper had a similar change to Usopp in the two years simply in the respect that he became more competent and confident in a very noticeable way.

Really, the list goes on and on. Nobody changes drastically because nobody needs to change drastically. I feel like half of you expect some amazing, super, near character 180 when you say character development, which is just silly. If anybody core to the One Piece universe were to drastically change, the show would dive bomb pretty quickly. I mean, would you have wanted to see Luffy stay a shattered mess lacking confidence in all of his abilities after Ace's death, dwelling for 60 or 70 episodes? Yeah, that would have sucked a lot. One Piece isn't that kind of anime. You really should watch/read something else if you're expecting some deep psychological exploration of the effects of depression and shock when concerning humans. This is something that will thrive off very gradual change and general character consistency. I definitely don't expect some Breaking Bad, Walter White level changes.

With that in mind, it also has to be considered that each character has a deep back story that has let us know who these characters are and why they do what they do. Look at Nami and her time with the Arlong Pirates, the loss of her mother, her abduction due to her gift to draw sea charts, and the trickery that lead to Luffy making a stand for her against the strongest enemy they had fought up to that point. Look at Zoro and the loss of his childhood friend that has lead to him pursuing a promise that nearly kills him time and time again. Sanji and the dream of reaching the All Blue he has fostered since he was a child after nearly dying with Zeff and ultimately opening the sea restaurant Baratie. Hell, Robin's back story is depressing as all hell. To note, her "differences" during the Enies Lobby arc were due to her having a breakdown. Or did you expect emotionally unstable, breakdown Robin to be permanent? I personally feel cool, somewhat morbid Robin is a far better character.

On the topic of fights taking longer and longer, the fights really do vary, but for the most part, a main fight between Luffy and someone else lasts at most 10 to 15 episodes when excluding episodes that are flashbacks or general background fill in. Even then, those are maybe five episodes total. You may think "well that fight is too long!" For some people, yeah, maybe it is too long. For others, we watched DBZ and understand how long a fight can be made. The longest fights in One Piece seem short when compared to the ridiculously long fights in the likes of DBZ.

For the plot, the base of it is simple: Luffy wants to be the King of the Pirates. That is a nice, solid base to go off of. Building off of that, you have the individual dreams of each crew member, the involvement of Black Beard as the ultimate opponent, the "Will of the D", the role of the World Government and whether its justice is truly justice, whether the One Piece itself is really what people think it is, etc. Hell, we still don't know much about the revolutionary forces and the role of Monkey D. Dragon. One Piece still has a long way to go in this giant plot that has been weaved. What's well done is that each of these is slowly being revealed as the characters continue to simply move towards the main goal.

When it comes to why nobody has conquered the Grand Line in the now 20 years since the start of the Grand Pirate Era, that's hard to say. Little has been revealed about the New World yet, and why reaching the end of it seems to have been impossible for everybody so far. That will likely be explained at some point once the Straw Hat Pirates are close to the end of the Grand Line. If not, in the long run, it's a minor plot hole for the sake of plot convenience. Not the end of the world.

Oh, and while I'm thinking of it, I haven't hit the Punk Hazard arc yet, but where the poison is concerned: Magellan poisoned Luffy with just about every kind of poison there is. This was acknowledged when the doctors at Impel Down were unable to develop an antidote for Luffy due to the many types of poison within him. It's also why his chances of survival even after Ivankov's treatment were so low. After he managed to survive from it, as Ivankov mentioned could happen, and as was demonstrated at Fishman Island when the swordsman accidentally poisoned Luffy, Luffy developed antibodies against all of the poisons he was hit with. Essentially, Luffy is now impossible to poison except for perhaps by Magellan himself anymore. Any poison he absorbs is in no way a plot hole. Any new abilities he exhibits is potentially more he just learned to do over his two years. You can't ask for the origin of every move a character makes. Presumably, in the in between, they just figure out more while training. It's nothing that requires great explanation and more chapters or episodes.

In the end, if One Piece isn't your cup of tea, okay. That doesn't mean it's a bad anime though. It's significantly better than many other long running ones you might find out there, and it hasn't once felt stale except during lengthy flashback of a flashback portions (most notably during the Enies Lobby arc where we got everybody's back story abridged over several episodes). That's pretty impressive for something over 600 episodes with what could be another 600 before it's done.


As for Bleach, it murdered itself and was a constant victim of filler. Unfortunate. It also should have ended long before it did. The poor show just became ridiculous. When it comes to Naruto, I haven't watched it since Gaara was the main enemy. Needless to say, I lost interest long ago.


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## LegendAssassinF (Jul 9, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> When it comes to why nobody has conquered the Grand Line in the now 20 years since the start of the Grand Pirate Era, that's hard to say. Little has been revealed about the New World yet, and why reaching the end of it seems to have been impossible for everybody so far. That will likely be explained at some point once the Straw Hat Pirates are close to the end of the Grand Line. If not, in the long run, it's a minor plot hole for the sake of plot convenience. Not the end of the world.


 

I actually mentioned this in my last post. The treasure "One Piece" is only at most 20 years old since Ace was born before Roger's death. Whitebeard as far as we know never wanted to claim the treasure and not until after Roger's death that he was known to be the world's strongest pirate. In a flashback episode Roger does tell Whitebeard that he would tell him where is Raftel but Whitebeard declines so the only way to reach One Piece now is by following the path of Poneglyphs which as far as we know Robin is the only one that can read them. That is why no one has reached it yet since they apparently follow an order (the order Nami has been keeping track of for which islands to go to next). Without a good navigator + someone who can read the glyphs it might be impossible to reach "One Piece" at this point in time. If Whitebeard didn't want the treasure and he was known as the world's best pirate chances are to get to "One Piece" is harder than we know it yet.


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## kirbymaster101 (Aug 1, 2013)

Fairy tail last arc left a bad taste in my mouth. Natsu confidently destroyed the gate and all the dragons conviently disappeared.  Felt like the author just wanted the GMG arc to end as quick as possible. However I might as well read this series till the end. Fairy Tail also had an unnecessary time skip.


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