# Square Enix Threatens Legal Action Against Type-0 Fan Translation



## Densetsu (Jul 19, 2014)

*Friendly Reminder:* Now that Square Enix has made it clear that they don't want this patch circulating around, please *do not ask for the patch* in this discussion or anywhere on this forum. We're going to have to treat it the same as asking for a ROM. Thanks.​​


 
The long-anticipated translation patch to _Final Fantasy: Reishiki (Type-0)_ was released on June 9th by Sky and his team, much to the rejoice of its Nihongo-challenged fans. And then, the following day, Square Enix announced their own official localization of the game for the PS4 and Xbox One.

The timing of the SE-sanctioned localization announcement seemed almost too coincidental, and drew some raised eyebrows from the underground gaming community. Now, SE has taken a more direct approach:


> "Unfortunately I’m forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular _Final Fantasy Type-0_ fan translation project," says an announcement on SkyBladeCloud. "That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans."


 
This could have been handled differently on both sides, but unfortunately it has come to blows and litigation. It looks like this could be the Final Fan-translation.

 Source
 Sky's Blog Post
 UPDATE: New Info Regarding this Story

07/19/2014: Thanks to gamecaptor for the heads-up.
07/21/2014: Thanks to mkdms14 for the update.


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## GameWinner (Jul 19, 2014)

Just port the game to Vita and we're good, Square.


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## Gahars (Jul 19, 2014)

Once again proving it's not hip to be Square-Enix.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 19, 2014)

Should be featured on the front page. In any case, I guess this slims the chances of Blood of Bahamut ever getting completed.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 19, 2014)

I assume they're doing so because they would rather have people buy their own localization instead of people pirating the game and using the fan translation, which is understandable at least.


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## T-hug (Jul 19, 2014)

I'm not sure how true this is, but I heard they took donations for the project, this could be why this has happened.


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## gamefan5 (Jul 19, 2014)

Is it possible to find the patch until it is gone?? O.o


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## ken28 (Jul 19, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> Is it possible to find the patch until it is gone?? O.o


rule number one in the internet: the WWW never forgets.


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## Densetsu (Jul 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I assume they're doing so because they would rather have people buy their own localization instead of people pirating the game and using the fan translation, which is understandable at least.


I agree, can't exactly fault them for protecting their IP. But considering how successful the game was in Japan, I wonder why they waited until Sky's translation came out before they made any official announcement to localize it for the Western market. There was no solid indication of a Western localization until the day after the fan translation was released. I just feel like this legal BS could have been avoided had SE made it clear from the beginning that they were going to localize it, instead of waiting almost 3 years to make the announcement. If the translation patch had not been made available, it probably would've taken SE even longer to announce it.


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## ChaosBoi (Jul 19, 2014)

Though I am no longer a supporter of Square, they should have just localized it themselves when they had the chance instead of being so pissy about it. I understand that they want people to buy their HD port or w/e it is, but it's not like the fan translation is going to hurt them. For starters, it's on a system that most average gamers probably don't use anymore (usually the only ones I know that are still playing it are either pirates, or they just haven't gotten a Vita/3DS yet). In this day and age, a lot of people would rather get the newer version.


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## Nathan Drake (Jul 19, 2014)

Step 1: Don't localize the game.
Step 2: Wait until fans, fed up with waiting for a localization that will never come, translate the game themselves.
Step 3: Conveniently announce that you are actually localizing the game exactly one day later after the translation release, of all the convenient times.
Step 4: Punish those loyal fans who spent hundreds of hours just doing what you refused to do so that you can rip off their translation and call it your own.

Good going, SE. You have totally earned my respect for portraying yourselves as greedy thieves.


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## Randqalan (Jul 19, 2014)

Most likely not at all as I stated before I for one will not beleive it until I see it on PSN for PS4 or better yet a hard copy they have lied before who says they will not do it again
What I think is real BS people who bought PSN or hard copy of FF-0 they made money because of the patch and they still act like bullies

Like I stated before real long time FF person here but no more
I boycott them as of the notice until they straiten up or let Doom Train alone or both would be better 

I say without the old team members and even Sony selling stocks for SE soon might be the Final Final Fantasy


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## bobmcjr (Jul 19, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> Is it possible to find the patch until it is gone?? O.o


The WaybackMachine (July 2nd) is your friend. For the topic of merging, see July 4th. I just scraped all the archives myself for preservation's sake even though I have no intent on actually playing the game.



Keep Circulating the Tapes.


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## Hand (Jul 19, 2014)

If patches and fan translations are not illegal, what can Square do against Skyblade?


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## GamerzHell9137 (Jul 19, 2014)

Way to be dicks, first wait for fans to translate it then release the game with the translated script, change some things and then say " No, we didn't copy their translation! Can't you see that X line is different?? "

Ahhh...

But lets say that won't happen but still Square Enix is a dick about THREATENING sky and his team.
Hope SE didn't make you too much stress.


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## Silentsurvivor (Jul 19, 2014)

IMO they already knew this was coming, that's why they rushed to release the patch before the localization was announced. Now that the patch is out in the wild, removing it from their site is meaningless.


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## Qtis (Jul 19, 2014)

Hand said:


> If patches and fan translations are not illegal, what can Square do against Skyblade?


They own the original content and thus can send a cease and desist letter to Sky for using their IP. Is it fair? No. Can they do it based on the laws of many countries? Yes.

It's interesting to see the longer post regarding the matter


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## Dimensional (Jul 19, 2014)

I almost get the feeling Sony is going to do something like take the fan translation, and use it for their localization, and basically steal from the hard work of the fans. The fans should copyright the patch. They could do that at least. Right?


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## basf11214 (Jul 19, 2014)

Hand said:


> If patches and fan translations are not illegal, what can Square do against Skyblade?


 
In the U.S., aiding and abetting a violation of someone else's copyright is itself a violation. Of course, there are things a translator can do to assert his/her rights (because people who create translations also own the copyright to the translation).  For example, Skyblade could counter sue for an injunction against Square publishing the game in the United States (because it violates the translation teams' copyright).


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## Silentsurvivor (Jul 19, 2014)

Qtis said:


> They own the original content and thus can send a cease and desist letter to Sky for using their IP. Is it fair? No. Can they do it based on the laws of many countries? Yes.


I think it goes beyond a C&D because the patch is already released. The "damage" is done. I think the issue is that they took donations for translating the game and also had ads on their site. Sky stated:



> I hope you understand, and as always I appreciate your support (that I might need more than ever in the near future)


 
So I wonder if they're gonna take it to court or something. I hope not.


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## emigre (Jul 19, 2014)

Dimensional said:


> I almost get the feeling Sony is going to do something like take the fan translation, and use it for their localization, and basically steal from the hard work of the fans. The fans should copyright the patch. They could do that at least. Right?


 
Sony?

I wouldn't be surprised if SQUARE just asked politely to Sky to stop distributing sn supporting the translation, he would have done so. Than again it's not like Square live within their own little bubble.

Tis a shame this happens in the same world where companies like XSEED buy fan translations as a base for their work.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 19, 2014)

I bet people will forget everything if Square Enix announces a PS Vita version.


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## Hargrun (Jul 19, 2014)

Yeah. SE is right to defend their property, but I believe the way that happened was a bit... "unnecessary". I mean, if they were taken right attitude at the *beginning of the project* the situation would be *QUITE different*.

There is something called _fan service_ and companies like $ega and $quare Enix are definitely NOT GOOD at it. If they were we would have more of Shenmue or Streets of Rage and not a bunch of Sonic games like _Sonic in a car_,_ Sonic as a werething_,_ Sonic on a airboard_,_ Sonic with bandages, Sonic thinks he is a knight, Sonic naked again_ and many others...

Also, we would have several [Insert some $quare title here] International Version/Final Mix, *always* with text options in at least two languages​​. (Thus avoiding more translations made by fans who would have their asses bitten by the same b****.)

I am grateful for *Sky and his GREAT team*, I am grateful for all those who *imported an original copy to use the patch*, but definitely I am grateful for not having bought a Vita waiting for something that *WILL-NOT-HAPPEN.

And I apologize if my writing sounded like a ragequit, lol.*


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## Lumstar (Jul 19, 2014)

Hargrun said:


> Yeah. SE is right to defend their property, but I believe the way that happened was a bit... "unnecessary". I mean, if they were taken right attitude at the *beginning of the project* the situation would be *QUITE different*.
> 
> There is something called _fan service_ and companies like $ega and $quare Enix are definitely NOT GOOD at it. If they were we would have more of Shenmue or Streets of Rage and not a bunch of Sonic games like _Sonic in a car_,_ Sonic as a werething_,_ Sonic on a airboard_,_ Sonic with bandages, Sonic thinks he is a knight, Sonic naked again_ and many others...
> 
> ...


 
Besides people are too quick to demonize the side of the story we haven't even heard yet.
It very well could be the patch contains SE copyrighted material, which they wouldn't have known until they were able to obtain it.
That'd be a plausible explanation for the timing of this.


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## DrOctapu (Jul 19, 2014)

Squaresoft is terrible to their fans, I refuse to buy their shit out of principle. Want a sequel to TWGOK? What's that? 200 Ports of FFIII you say? Okay! Want an HD remake of Final Fantasy 7? Sounds good, we'll even do it on mobile! Just the bike minigame though, right? Kingdom Hearts 3? Sure, give it a decade or so and we'll confirm it, but first here are a dozen spinoff games that range from mediocre to alright. We'll deal with that whole "storyline" shit later, alright?


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 19, 2014)

I leave for a couple of weeks, and all hell breaks lose? Interesting developments... very interesting. I'm also reading over on Sky's blog in the comments section where people are saying the team took donations, and that's why this happened. Well, I don't know about that. I know for a fact that 99.9% of the team didn't make a penny from those donations.


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## drgnslayers (Jul 19, 2014)

emigre said:


> Sony?
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if SQUARE just asked politely to Sky to stop distributing sn supporting the translation, he would have done so. Than again it's not like Square live within their own little bubble.
> 
> Tis a shame this happens in the same world where companies like XSEED buy fan translations as a base for their work.


 
Some companies even go as to hire people doing fan translations to make their own retail translations. Here's a link about Andrew Hodgson who did the Steins;Gate fan translation and then was hired by JAST USA to work on the official Western translation: http://kotaku.com/going-from-fan-to-professional-game-translator-and-back-1570615666

Kudos to SkybladeCloud and its team for their dedication. Know that I don't have any plans to buy a Vita, a Xbox One or a PS4 in the near future because I'm actually happy with my PSP and my 3DS


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## FAST6191 (Jul 19, 2014)

This is new, ROM hacking wise I am going to be hard pushed to think of similar cases. The closest I have is tecmo and dead or alive ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/10/tecmo_sues_xbox_game_hackers/ ) some years back and that was considered a first, for something somewhat different and ultimately it was dropped a couple of months later ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/27/tecmo_drops_ninjahacker_suit/ ).

Obviously there are the fan remake C&Ds (of which we have seen many, from many companies and several times square (enix), usually done on trademark grounds and trademark law kind of forces that. Like others I am curious to see if there are any modifiers (ads, donations obtained....) in this case.

With the size it is I am also curious to see how hard it will be to get your hands on in a couple of years. For a tiny IPS/xdelta thing I could easily send as an email attachment then easy as you like, for the couple of hundred megs then it could be more tricky. We all live in a world where certain things have become hard to get so who knows.

Interesting times.


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## Mylink5 (Jul 19, 2014)

OK. I am a guy who usually just gets "turned off" when these things happen, but now I think I am fairly angry. Why would SE do this? It's like the company is trying to make the fans hate it. There are countless other translations and I am not aware of a company banning one. And like it has already been told, yes SE has the right to defend its property, but for crying out loud, it's a 2-3 year project (don't remember how long it's been) that started because SE didn't bring this game to the West, basicaly neglecting the fans it has in the West. Yes, it's true that an HD West version is coming, but what's the harm by being an English translation for PSP? It's not like the new version would fail cause of it. On the contrary, this move, I believe, is going to damage the company's image. Also, don't forget the ENORMOUS effort, time the translation team put into making this happen, in order to please the fans SE didn't care about. It's outrageous!


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## Naridar (Jul 19, 2014)

If anything, the patch should be featured on the front page! Square Enix (and other companies as well but SE's the crown prince in this one) keep pulling these d*ck moves on fans who sweat blood and tears for their fellow fans' enjoyment (Type-0, Chrono Trigger Resurrection, Crimson Echoes, etc.), and we keep assisting them by bending over to whatever crap they say?! We're the f*cking internet! If the temp, the ultimate grey zone for console gaming won't say "f*ck you" to these d*ckheads, who will?! Is there someone beside me on this site willing to spam every topic with the translation to get our point across? 

Had to get that out of my system.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2014)

Square-Enix at its finest - they won't release the original PSP game in English, but they want the translation to be shot down. Screw you, Square-Enix. Screw you.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 19, 2014)

Mylink5 said:


> but what's the harm by being an English translation for PSP? It's not like the new version would fail cause of it. On the contrary, this move, I believe, is going to damage the company's image.



I do not think there is such a thing as an unhacked PSP (certainly no such thing as an unhackable one thanks to the serious screw ups on Sony's part), as such people can easily get hold of it for the PSP. In some ways this then counts as pulling focus, or at least has the potential to pull focus, from the eventual release.

Legally speaking I am not quite sure how this plays out, on the other hand most were not sure how a let's play could be troubled and then we had that whole situation. All that said I also can not see this being a PR win.


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## Mylink5 (Jul 19, 2014)

Yeah, it would pull focus away from the release, but taking legal action again the translation is a far worse move on their behalf. And Naridar is right. Shouldn't we do something as a community?


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## soilxkirax (Jul 19, 2014)

That's fucked up, they could at least instead of asking them to remove any FFT0 related content, to help them with the translation(which most likely they are using)


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## uyjulian (Jul 19, 2014)

Woo Square C&D FTW
Remember Chrono Trigger fan sequel/other fan projects related to that game? C&D'd by $quare €nix.


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## Lumstar (Jul 19, 2014)

In any case we're long overdue for these things to actually reach the courtroom. Settling or C&D's don't establish quite a firm legal precedent.


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## BrightNeko (Jul 19, 2014)

How normal is this from square? I'm familiar with both chrono trigger deals, but have they ever tackled a fan translation like this before?


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## Ulieq (Jul 19, 2014)

I have an idea.  How about Square start releasing games on next gen systems and stfu.



Silentsurvivor said:


> I think it goes beyond a C&D because the patch is already released. The "damage" is done. I think the issue is that they took donations for translating the game and also had ads on their site. Sky stated:
> 
> 
> 
> So I wonder if they're gonna take it to court or something. I hope not.


 

Nubs.


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## dragonmaster (Jul 19, 2014)

bad square ,to be honest i am a fan of dragon quest monsters a dragon quest spinoff and all 3ds games of the series are not localized ,i am dissapointed if they dont want piracy just localize games i waited and waited for a eu version and nothing here ,and an email i ve send was never replied, in my opinion translation happens cause companies dont care for fans in other countries


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## GHANMI (Jul 19, 2014)

The patch in its current form only needs a single disk and not both disks.
After patching the game, it has the content from the second disk as well, not only the translation.
Something is wrong.

This means... something that's included in the patch (*in its current form*) IS problematic, since it's not only the translation data.
I say GBATemp mods shouldn't ban the translation outright.
A C&D wasn't issued.
The issue lingers with bits from the copyrighted material included in the patch itself.
I see zero day translations for many DS games still up so I presume it's not even a factor behind the ban of Type-0.

This patch should be reworked to become something that requires both ISOs and is a collection of ips/ppf patches rather than any of the binary data... you might have noticed already something with the size is off.
The patch reworked that way (much like the Fatal Frame 4 translation) shouldn't be problematic (no copyrighted material at all inside of it).
For preservation's sake, all of that effort shouldn't simply go to waste.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Jul 19, 2014)

The way to see if the translations are the same are by comparing when it's released.



WiiUBricker said:


> I bet people will forget everything if Square Enix announces a PS Vita version.


 
Would make absolutely no difference. Sure some Vita users would be happy but the majority couldn't care less. It's like releasing Call of Duty for the Wii U except the Wii U users themselves wouldn't pick the game up.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 19, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> The patch reworked that way (much like the Fatal Frame 4 translation) shouldn't be problematic (no copyrighted material at all inside of it).



Technically speaking the script being translated is very iffy and has seen things shut down before ( http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/03/02/fan-generated-movie-subtitle-sites-targeted-by-studios being an example, in my search just now I saw another case last year), some of the subtitle sites faced this issue a couple of years back.

+1 to what you said though (I assume this is not a FF7 style case of same game, different videos on all the different discs), whether that was a kind of end run or not remains to be debated but if it is that then it is legally quite sound.


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## Zero Dozer (Jul 19, 2014)

If it's gonna be like this, then you guys should ban EVERY FAN TRANSLATION PATCH POSTED HERE.

I won't ask for something I can find by myself, but I don't like those politics as well.

Edit: (Do not consider this as some idiocy on my part, but I think the same crap applies to everything that wasn't made by a publisher, according to ther goddamned jurassic visions. So, if a fan translation is now considered piracy and you guys DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH IT, then why not begone with ALL THOSE PATCHES RIGHT HERE ON THIS SITE? Would be a friggin' bad idea, wouldn't it? Just think about it.

Rules have a price, but there are some whose price people won't be willing to pay.)


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## Pedeadstrian (Jul 19, 2014)

Well, now I don't feel bad for having downloaded a pre-patched copy of Type-0 after Skyblade and the rest's extensive work. Then again, I wouldn't have felt bad anyway. Screw you, SE. You don't translate a bunch of awesome games, whether they be Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc., but threaten legal action when someone else does. That's like the corporation equivalent of ignoring your girlfriend and then see her hanging out with another dude and threatening to kill her because of it.


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## mario5555 (Jul 19, 2014)

I deleted my first response to this post until I read Lumstar's reply on page 2 and decided to re-write it again.

So here goes. Take 2.



WiiUBricker said:


> In any case, I guess this slims the chances of Blood of Bahamut ever getting completed.


 
I completely forgot about this game until you brought it up again. And seeing how it's 4 years old and no talk about it ever being translated and released, I don't think S-E cares too much about it at all.



Tom Bombadildo said:


> I assume they're doing so because they would rather have people buy their own localization instead of people pirating the game and using the fan translation, which is understandable at least.


 


T-hug said:


> I'm not sure how true this is, but I heard they took donations for the project, this could be why this has happened.


 
Other projects accept donations, S-E would have to prove that that those donations were given solely for the support of the translation and payment for said translation, flimsy ground at the very best.



Nathan Drake said:


> Step 1: Don't localize the game.
> Step 2: Wait until fans, fed up with waiting for a localization that will never come, translate the game themselves.
> Step 3: Conveniently announce that you are actually localizing the game exactly one day later after the translation release, of all the convenient times.
> *Step 4: Punish those loyal fans who spent hundreds of hours just doing what you refused to do so that you can rip off their translation and call it your own.*
> ...


 
I was on the same thing with my thinking until I remembered that S-E SUPPOSEDLY has a 100% completed translation for the game ready to go. But I'd rather see them work with the fans rather than attack fans wanting to do fan tribute projects to games they care so much about.



Hand said:


> If patches and fan translations are not illegal, what can Square do against Skyblade?


 
Hell even Nintendo turned a blind eye to Mother 3, they knew about it, but didn't kill it (same for Captain Rainbow and the Fatal Frame Wii sequel as well, they funded development)

I'm curious to know what they threatened him with more than a cease and desist (according to sources "in the know", see links in OP) as there has never been precedent for anything more severe before this and hope this doesn't lead to a brave new world of underground translation projects because of the ramifications from this project.



Silentsurvivor said:


> *IMO* they already knew this was coming, *that's why they rushed to release the patch before the localization was announced*. Now that the patch is out in the wild, removing it from their site is meaningless.


 
Again where's the proof of this allegation? I've read lots of conspiracy theory posts about this issue when it seems like Sky and his group were doing something shady on nothing more then fear mongering and unsupported supposition.

This is something which is not needed right now. Make an educated opinion when all of the facts are out there.



Dimensional said:


> I almost get the feeling Sony is going to do something like take the fan translation, and use it for their localization, and basically steal from the hard work of the fans. The fans should copyright the patch. They could do that at least. Right?


 
I know you meant S-E. It all depends on derivative works let's see....

Here's what the US govt. says on the issue.

source: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf


> "To be copyrightable, a derivative work must incorporate some or all of a
> preexisting “work” and add new original copyrightable authorship to that work.
> The derivative work right is often referred to as the adaptation right. The following
> are examples of the many different types of derivative works:
> • A translation of an novel written in English into another language"


 
Legal zoom's comments are a little more gloomy.
source: https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-are-derivative-works-under-copyright-law


> *Who Can Produce Derivative Works?*
> Only copyright owners have the exclusive right to produce derivative works based on their original, copyrighted works.


 
I'm not going to go into that any further, chillingeffects.org has a good article as well ( *https://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/*) that goes into why it might not be as cut as dry as S-E would like for it to be about their case, other than to bully a translator not fully versed in the law and hope they can get them to settle due to being scared and not having large coffers of money to defend themselves against said lawsuit or legal challenge brought against them by the copyright holder.



Lumstar said:


> In any case we're long overdue for these things to actually reach the courtroom. Settling or C&D's don't establish quite a firm legal precedent.


 
Are you planning on supporting Sky and giving unlimited ($$$) funds for his representation in court? I thought not, there is no way he could do anything but settle or get punished. He's 23 years old, and unless his parents are loaded, I don't see this going into court to battle it out against a multi-million dollar corporation.

I've been reading some ignorant posts on this issue (at the links provided in the OP) but seriously....think before posting a bit more. Because what you've been coming up with makes little to no sense, and could be construed as false allegations where there is none....speaking of which...



Lumstar said:


> Besides people are too quick to demonize the side of the story we haven't even heard yet.
> It very well could be the patch contains SE copyrighted material, which they wouldn't have known until they were able to obtain it.
> That'd be a plausible explanation for the timing of this.


 
And you have this solid proof from what source? That could be construed as a libelous statement accusing the team of using that material in their patch with no proof that it was done so.

Or is an outright speculation (which I believe it is) that you read on sky's blog page that someone (or you) made a comment of out of thin air with no proof to back up that statement.

S-E has a track record of killing fan projects, and this is another in a long line of bullying tactics from them. They are willing to punish fans for their dedication and loyalty rather than reach a hand of friendship out and work with them (see Xseed, Capcom, hell even Nintendo, etc.) on projects to enhance brand perception.

Edit: For the record, I've not read Sky's notes on the translation, nor have looked at the patch myself, I'm just commenting on the allegations being made and no proof other than hearsay, and I say thing only after reading Ghanmi's post, I'd have to look into it further and see how much merit is in those claims.


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## Hargrun (Jul 19, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> If it's gonna be like this, then you guys should ban EVERY FAN TRANSLATION PATCH POSTED HERE.
> 
> I won't ask for something I can find by myself, but I don't like those politics as well.
> 
> ...


It's a bad idea.

First you forgot the fact that there is much copyrighted material with the patch (that isn't a simple PPF or Xdelta file).

Second, donations. I agree with what was said above, all the money that was donated hardly will pay the team effort but... Again... *This is the world in which we live.*


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## Zero Dozer (Jul 19, 2014)

So is that it? Conform with the rules and be a helpless little lamb to anyone who wants to rape you?

Sorry, I don't play by this.

As I said, I won't break the rules here, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it.


Also, Mario5555 scored a big one here; even Nintendo with their hollywoodian tactics allowed the Mother 3 translation to exist.


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## CathyRina (Jul 19, 2014)

...SE, not cool...


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## Lumstar (Jul 19, 2014)

mario5555 said:


> I deleted my first response to this post until I read Lumstar's reply on page 2 and decided to re-write it again.
> 
> So here goes. Take 2.
> 
> ...


 
No, please drop the ad hominem. I didn't name any particular person or group to take to court.
I was making a general statement about establishing a legal precedent on the matter of game fan translations.

I didn't say I personally believed the patch has copyrighted work. I raised it as a legitimate relevant possibility to this situation, without any mention of past activity from S-E.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 20, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Would make absolutely no difference. Sure some Vita users would be happy but the majority couldn't care less. It's like releasing Call of Duty for the Wii U except the Wii U users themselves wouldn't pick the game up.


It seems you missed the outburst of hate towards Square Enix for not releasing it for the Vita.


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## bobmcjr (Jul 20, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> The patch in its current form only needs a single disk and not both disks.


I admit I did find it odd that the ROM merging tools also only required a single disc, and either disc was acceptable to produce the full game.
Looking further into how it was done, I found this on the deleted merging blog post:


> For the third version of the Merging Files, I decided to include untouched video files, to achieve the maximum quality.


The merging files therefore most certainly contain copyrighted content (additionally I think found some MDL headers in both it and the patch)

Speculation:


Spoiler



Also, given that the patch is almost the same size as yellow.pkg and bigger than each disc, it is highly likely that it too contains most of yellow.pkg.


I believe if this the patcher concatenated resources from both discs itself, and then delta patched everything, it may have been somewhat "less" illegal. The patch format and patcher appear to be custom, hence supporting either disc I guess.

Based on what I've found, this is how the patch operates:

User provides ISO Disc 1 or Disc 2
The embedded .NET DiscUtils open the ISO
PARAM.SFO, ICON0.png, yellow.fsd, and yellow.pkg are likely entirely replaced (the eboot.bin could be patched, but it too is probably just replaced)
ISO is rebuilt with these new files
In this case the only files left untouched would be PIC0.PNG, PIC1.PNG, SND0.AT3, some additional bin files, libccc.prx, and libmd5.prx.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (Jul 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> ...SE, not cool...


 
So close! Would've been funny if you added an extra e to the end making it "...SEe, not cool". 



WiiUBricker said:


> It seems you missed the outburst of hate towards Square Enix for not releasing it for the Vita.


 
Well, I'm not much of an SE gamer and never caught on their Final Fantasy hype train. Y'know I'm more of a platforming guy.


----------



## vayanui8 (Jul 20, 2014)

This is total BS. Square could have asked the translators for the work. There's no reason they had to go after the fans of their game. I will not be supporting Square with their official port if at all possible, and I think it's horrible that they would go after dedicated fans after they failed to deliver a proper translation themselves.


----------



## Steena (Jul 20, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> I agree, can't exactly fault them for protecting their IP. But considering how successful the game was in Japan, I wonder why they waited until Sky's translation came out before they made any official announcement to localize it for the Western market. There was no solid indication of a Western localization until the day after the fan translation was released. I just feel like this legal BS could have been avoided had SE made it clear from the beginning that they were going to localize it, instead of waiting almost 3 years to make the announcement. If the translation patch had not been made available, it probably would've taken SE even longer to announce it.


It's very logical to assume that SE used the interest/hype in the fan translation to gauge interest for a western release, given this timing coincidence. I for one saw a lot of discussion about the translation even outside of gbatemp; when a release date was given, it WAS a pretty big deal.
Which would mean that they purposefully waited until it was near-finished and ready to get released, and then sent a C&D.
Could it also be possible that they are using the patch itself to cut out the bulk of the job, and just put a bunch of english spellcheckers on the job to save some money?

Either way, there's no way this is a coincidence. There has been silence for 3 or so years, and then in a matter of days of the patch release (which was itself unexpected) the game get announced.


----------



## Sheimi (Jul 20, 2014)

Seems a bit odd that they send a C&D the following day after it was released.


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## chrisrlink (Jul 20, 2014)

ok SE/SS Has a rep of ruining translations/Fan remakes (Namely the 3D Chrono trigger reboot) through legal threats Do they ever go after The RPG Maker community? I'm sure glad gamefreak doesn't do the same with the Pokemon script engine Pokemon essentials fOR RPG Maker XP now if the patch could be only ran with a legal PSN Download/UMD would they stil mind? my guess is yes they would


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## mkdms14 (Jul 20, 2014)

My understanding based on some informations I read a while ago.  Don't remember where but SE was originally planing to release type-O in the west in fact according to some people who work closely with SE they had already finished english voice over and finished most of the in game text when for some reason probably because psp sales where down in the west decided to delay the games release until the psvita was released.  Since the psvita never really took off I imagine they just cancelled the game all together.  Since the next gen consoles are doing really well they saw this as an opportunity to just upres the graphic, finish the localization and make a quick buck.


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## Imparasite (Jul 20, 2014)

All my respect on SE are gone now that's bull$h!t threatening people just like that, SE are just bunch of lazzy bums they all want are money. Well your new FINAL FANTASY franchise are suck nowadays you deserve it big time!! hope this company will suck dust soonnnn.


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## anhminh (Jul 20, 2014)

Why SE need to threatening a fan-translation?
They won't even release on the same console, why they so piss about it?
Or did they think no one will buy their crappy translated game because fan-translator does it better than their translator does?


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## TheLostSabre (Jul 20, 2014)

With the way SE are nowadays, this doesn't surprised me in the least. Anywho, a C&D is useless at this point since the patch is already released online. So this doesn't benefit SE in anyway since those who wants the patch *will* find it regardless.


----------



## LoyalZero1 (Jul 20, 2014)

Silentsurvivor said:


> I think the issue is that they took donations....


 

I think it's funny that most people are always saying thanks to Sky, but they almost never thank the team. But then when the donations are mentioned, all of a sudden it's _*THEY*_ took donations. No.... _*THEY*_ didn't....... *HE* did. *Trust me when I tell you I know what i'm talking about.* I will always be greatful to Sky for starting the project, staying on the team's case for motivational purposes and going out of his way to do the rom hacking and patching, but it's the translators who put in many sleepless nights after coming home tired from work, just to do something nice for us fans. And they didn't get any donation money, and maybe 10% of the recognition from people who got the patch. They won't tell you that, but i'm saying it, only because i'm setting the record straight amongst those who say the whole team took money. It's simply not true.


----------



## Hells Malice (Jul 20, 2014)

Donations wouldn't be the problem as they were in no way required to obtain the patch. This patch has accrued 0 revenue, and therefore that has absolutely nothing to do with the patch being taken down.

Square Enix is just a bag of dicks is all.


----------



## The Catboy (Jul 20, 2014)

So instead of learning that people want this game and maybe translating it or buying the translation or attempting to do any other form of localization, you took the dick move Squire Enix. Thanks, as if you weren't have enough trouble keeping your fans happy, you do this.


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## DJPlace (Jul 20, 2014)

IMO this game should be PS Vita only.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jul 20, 2014)

they had this translation done for god knows how long and they deliberately waited for the fan translation to be finished just so they can punk them!


----------



## ryuga93 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm used to be square enix fans because of Kingdom Hearts, but this has changed my view to Square Enix, scew you Square, why don't you shot down the Chinese translation of the game which came out after a few months after the release too? What they just care is their money lol


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## gamecaptor (Jul 20, 2014)

We have all been at a point in our life where we continually make bad decisions. Square-Enix is there and has been there for MANY years now.

This recent incident aside, the fact they are only bringing Type-0 HD to the PS4 and XB1 ONLY seems like a blunder in my opinion. Missing the boat on last gen since they are still very much a factor in todays market, not to mention Steam (especially since it's going to be a download title).

Load up your emulators boys and girls and fire up good old Final Fantasy 4 for the SNES (or even Final Fantasy 7 for the PSX if you prefer). Relive the days when Square(Enix) really was a company we all believed in!


----------



## drgnslayers (Jul 20, 2014)

gamecaptor said:


> We have all been at a point in our life where we continually make bad decisions. Square-Enix is there and has been there for MANY years now.
> 
> This recent incident aside, the fact they are only bringing Type-0 HD to the PS4 and XB1 ONLY seems like a blunder in my opinion. Missing the boat on last gen since they are still very much a factor in todays market, not to mention Steam (especially since it's going to be a download title).
> 
> Load up your emulators boys and girls and fire up good old Final Fantasy 4 for the SNES (or even Final Fantasy 7 for the PSX if you prefer). Relive the days when Square(Enix) really was a company we all believed in!


 
The good old times where Square and Enix were two separate companies but did work together to produce a masterpiece of a Super NES game: Chrono Trigger. The good old times where there were no Internet, that we played countless hours on the same Super NES game to beat it. I remember that Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy II (FF IV Easy Type) and Final Fantasy III (FF VI) were conquered many times by best friend and myself. Even Super Mario RPG is still fun to play today.

I'm sure all of you have your own preferences towards games. Square Enix likes to squeeze the juice on their previous titles. I can't count how many times each of the first six Final Fantasies were remade and released


----------



## Taleweaver (Jul 20, 2014)

This is just a stupid move by SE. I normally try to see this from all angles, but in this case, it's retarded no matter how you look at it.

The fact these guys got a warning almost immediately after the release means they knew about it (and with a company the size of SE, the opposite would have been very strange). And if they knew about it, it wouldn't be that hard to at least send out a letter BEFORE it was finished. Something like "hi, we noticed you're doing a fan translation. While we thank you for loving the game to this degree, we're currently in the process of discussing to do a translation on ourselves. If this comes true, we will be forced to ask you to remove this, as it would be deemed illegal since you're not an official partner. We hope you understand. But for the moment, please don't spill this to the public yet.". It wouldn't have been hard, it would have saved some effort and I'm sure those translating guys would at least understand it. It wouldn't have cost anything but like fifteen minutes of e-mail. The way it looks now, however, it's as if SE is just stealing his work.


----------



## codezer0 (Jul 20, 2014)

Mylink5 said:


> OK. I am a guy who usually just gets "turned off" when these things happen, but now I think I am fairly angry. Why would SE do this? It's like the company is trying to make the fans hate it. There are countless other translations and I am not aware of a company banning one. And like it has already been told, yes SE has the right to defend its property, but for crying out loud, it's a 2-3 year project (don't remember how long it's been) that started because SE didn't bring this game to the West, basicaly neglecting the fans it has in the West. Yes, it's true that an HD West version is coming, but what's the harm by being an English translation for PSP? It's not like the new version would fail cause of it. On the contrary, this move, I believe, is going to damage the company's image. Also, don't forget the ENORMOUS effort, time the translation team put into making this happen, in order to please the fans SE didn't care about. It's outrageous!


Because SquareEnix is the logical extreme of a Japanese company who doesn't acknowledge that - oh, I dunno - maybe they _could_ have fans outside of _Nee Pawn_ and think we're all filthy gaijin undeserving of their glorious master race games. It doesn't help that an overwhelming majority of dev companies in the land seem to hold this firm belief that anything that happens outside the island's borders is either of (a) no consequence to them, or (b) a threat.

It's stuff like this that makes Keiji Inafune's forethought to see the proverbial writing on the wall make him look like a fucking hero, now that Comcept has their first real game fully funded, and Capcom is bleeding money so bad that it's literally having to sell its most valued IP's just to stay solvent. Seriously, the _cojones_ of this man to even look out for those chucklefucks takes the kind of intestinal fortitude not seen since the *expletive* Old Testament of the Bible.

Back on topic, this is heinously scummy, and just further seems to perpetuate the notion that japanese devs are so out of touch with the global market that they will soon be doing as Capcom is and having to sell the farm before they have anything capable of saving it again.


----------



## Zero Dozer (Jul 20, 2014)

The very same thing that saved Square back in the 80s is now ruining them due to the arrogance it generated.


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## Densetsu (Jul 20, 2014)

Taleweaver said:


> And if they knew about it, it wouldn't be that hard to at least send out a letter BEFORE it was finished.
> 
> It wouldn't have been hard, it would have saved some effort and I'm sure those translating guys would at least understand it. It wouldn't have cost anything but like fifteen minutes of e-mail.


A simple, courteous e-mail like that would've gone a long way in preventing a PR disaster.

However, SE would rather pay their IP attorneys lots of money to effect legal action against its fans, and damage their reputation as a company in the process.

No, writing up a quick e-mail would've made _*too*_ much sense.

Stay classy, SE


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## Kane49 (Jul 20, 2014)

You realize that the only way to play that fan translation is by pirating the original game ?



Densetsu said:


> No, writing up a quick e-mail would've made _*too*_ much sense.




They sent a C&D letter, which is little more than an email, after it was clear that it wasn't just talk.
Its not like there were any public betas that verified progress.


----------



## CathyRina (Jul 20, 2014)

Kane49 said:


> You realize that the only way to play that fan translation is by pirating the original game ?


 
Because patching UMD's is totally impossible.


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## Kane49 (Jul 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Because patching UMD's is totally impossible.


 

You can patch UMD's ? because i can't


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## CathyRina (Jul 20, 2014)

Kane49 said:


> You can patch UMD's ? because i can't


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## Lumstar (Jul 20, 2014)

Edit: pointless


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## Kane49 (Jul 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


>





thats a plugin for psp's with cfw only that redirects file access or something similar, the umd does not get patched
Its also pretty far from the patch that was released that required a merged iso

/E: Don't get me wrong, im glad it got translated but making squeenix out to be some evil corporation because they protect their intellectual property is not right.


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## anhminh (Jul 20, 2014)

What if Nintendo do something like this to Pokemon, what then?


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## Lumstar (Jul 20, 2014)

Kane49 said:


> thats a plugin for psp's with cfw only that redirects file access or something similar, the umd does not get patched
> Its also pretty far from the patch that was released that required a merged iso


 
Ah that makes more sense.



anhminh said:


> What if Nintendo do something like this to Pokemon, what then?


 
If it contains enough Nintendo data they'd have to act. I don't recall the BW or BW2 patches being shut down.


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## CathyRina (Jul 20, 2014)

Kane49 said:


> thats a plugin for psp's with cfw only that redirects file access or something similar, the umd does not get patched
> Its also pretty far from the patch that was released that required a merged iso
> 
> /E: Don't get me wrong, im glad it got translated but making squeenix out to be some evil corporation because they protect their intellectual property is not right.


Then the persons who made the patch are f*cking stupid. I guess Squenix has a point.
Who in the hell decides to merge Isos while translating?


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## Lumstar (Jul 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Then the persons who made the patch are f*cking stupid. I guess Squenix has a point.
> Who in the hell decides to merge Isos withe translating?


 
Yeah if the patch truly does require one iso, not both, by default that implies containing *everything* each iso is missing from the other.

Of course the company could still be making other false accusations we don't yet know about.


----------



## CompassNorth (Jul 20, 2014)

Taleweaver said:


> This is just a stupid move by SE. I normally try to see this from all angles, but in this case, it's retarded no matter how you look at it.


What in what way is defending your intellectual property "retarded"?



Taleweaver said:


> It wouldn't have been hard, it would have saved some effort and I'm sure those translating guys would at least understand it. It wouldn't have cost anything but like fifteen minutes of e-mail.


Or maybe the translator(s) should have asked Squeenix for permission to translate the game.
Yes, we all know what the answer would have been, but that does not make it right to go behind their backs knowing the possible consequences.



Taleweaver said:


> The way it looks now, however, it's as if SE is just stealing his work.


Lol what?


----------



## Jayro (Jul 20, 2014)

Don't worry everyone, I have the completed patch in my mediafire account, so we have a copy in safe storage, friends. :3


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 20, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> A simple, courteous e-mail like that would've gone a long way in preventing a PR disaster.
> 
> However, SE would rather pay their IP attorneys lots of money to effect legal action against its fans, and damage their reputation as a company in the process.
> 
> ...


 
All of you guys are misinformed about a few things. I know that's the way it looks, but it's actually the other way around. There's a reason the patch was released early and still is a little buggy. The only reason i'm saying this is because Sky says on his blog he'll explain things. So i'm taking his word as a man he'll do that now.


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## Randqalan (Jul 20, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> All of you guys are misinformed about a few things. I know that's the way it looks, but it's actually the other way around. There's a reason the patch was released early and still is a little buggy. The only reason i'm saying this is because Sky says on his blog he'll explain things. So i'm taking his word as a man he'll do that now.


Not to put to much on your words but remember he said he would not receive a C&D and well what is happening is not much different really looked into Spain laws they have change a lot about copy righted material this year


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## Jayro (Jul 20, 2014)

SquareEnix is in another country, they can't touch Sky.


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## Randqalan (Jul 20, 2014)

JayRo said:


> SquareEnix is in another country, they can't touch Sky.


Let's hope you are right


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 20, 2014)

Like I said, there are things you all think you know, but you really don't have a clue about what's really going on behind the curtain. I'm intentionally being sketchy about it because it's not for me to say. But because Sky says he'll explain, i'll leave that to him.


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## Randqalan (Jul 20, 2014)

So are we getting mind Frelled by both SE and Sky now ? 

Sorry for the Farscape reference 

Let me guess you was warned also noticed you have removed references to you FF-0 site


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm just saying you guys are making lots of assumptions about things... that's all.


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## Taleweaver (Jul 20, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> 1. What in what way is defending your intellectual property "retarded"?
> 
> 
> 2. Or maybe the translator(s) should have asked Squeenix for permission to translate the game.
> ...


 
1. I'm calling *the approach* retarded.
2. from what I've gathered, the game was left untranslated for years. And indeed: what's the chance of them giving permission to modify it on a system that isn't open to begin with?
3. I said "the way it looks". Of course it can be a coincidence that SE was going to announce the game just one day after he's done on his work. And I mean that as well: that could very well be. However, it doesn't look that way to me.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jul 20, 2014)

YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.

it's Chrono Trigger all over again..goddamnit.

At least the patch was released. Good luck fucking removing it from the internet. 

Thank you Sky for all your work. And Fuck SquareEnix. Don't buy any Square Enix games ever.


----------



## Lumstar (Jul 20, 2014)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.
> 
> it's Chrono Trigger all over again..goddamnit.
> 
> ...


 
Too soon for that. We don't have all the information.


----------



## koimayeul (Jul 20, 2014)

T-hug said:


> I'm not sure how true this is, but I heard they took donations for the project, this could be why this has happened.


 

This.. I assume without a donation feature, things would have been different in this event..

A very sad and divisive issue.. I can only pray and wish for Sky to not get any real problems beside taking down his team's patch from his website.


----------



## Chris_Highwind (Jul 20, 2014)

So, they want it to be impossible to play Type-0 without a PS4 or an Xbox One. Give it a Vita port, and I might consider letting this act of douchebaggery go and buy the Vita version.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jul 20, 2014)

The timing of Square Enix's announcement of an official translation was almost too perfect. Let me guess, they'll use the fan translation for the Xbox One and PS4 versions, right? Hate to break it ya SE, but the patch is still floating on the net, good luck going after those who leaked it to other sites  

Sorry, but this company was better back when they were Squaresoft.


----------



## LoyalZero1 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'll follow that up with a question. Then i'll let you all think what you want to about that situation.... Based on what you know as the original release date for the patch, the sudden early release out of nowhere, _*ONE DAY BEFORE E3*_....... the few incomplete videos that weren't edited, the few typos and that E3 was already planned for a long time, *WHO'S* timing was too targeted?

You've all got it backwards.....


----------



## Kane49 (Jul 20, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> I'll follow that up with a question. Then i'll let you all think what you want to about that situation.... Based on what you know as the original release date for the patch, the sudden early release out of nowhere, the few incomplete videos that weren't edited, the few typos and that E3 was already planned for a long time, *WHO'S* timing was too targeted?
> 
> You've all got it backwards.....


 

Both parties set their dates to disrupt what the other was doing, i was sure that was obvious to everyone.
Sq just thought they had time until august or whenever sky set a release originally

/E: And anyone that thinks sq is gonna steal a fantranslation is out of their minds ..


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jul 20, 2014)

Lumstar said:


> Too soon for that. We don't have all the information.



too soon for what? we know he got some sort of gag order because he's not allowed to talk about it


----------



## Lumstar (Jul 20, 2014)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> too soon for what? we know he got some sort of gag order because he's not allowed to talk about it


 
We don't know what the "false accusations" are. Justified copyright defense is one thing, improperly communicating it is another.


----------



## Zero Dozer (Jul 20, 2014)

Noting that Square didn't send a C&D. They went to outright sue him.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Jul 20, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> Noting that Square didn't send a C&D. They went to outright sue him.


 
How do you know? And if they got his real name and address and everything to do so, it's his own fault for allowing that sort of thing to be known in today's world of litigious assholes.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 20, 2014)

This is why you never use real personal information on the internet. First name, fine, last name, address, phone number, hell no. Though by this point, the hack is incontrovertibly leaked on various ROMs sites and can be found with search engines. Someone has done, people will do it, and Square Enix's sue-happy lawyers can't put a stop to this no matter how much they threaten. Hate to say it, but SE was better before their merge in 2002.


----------



## GHANMI (Jul 21, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> This is why you never use real personal information on the internet. First name, fine, last name, address, phone number, hell no.


 
But did he actually communicate any personal information online? Other than the voice on some videos, that is.
They could have tracked him down resorting to... other more direct, Big Brother-ish methods (Spanish authorities and domain owners certainly would cooperate for a copyright infringement case).


----------



## Kane49 (Jul 21, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> Noting that Square didn't send a C&D. They went to outright sue him.


 

Calling bullshit on that one


----------



## DSGamer64 (Jul 21, 2014)

Maybe they should do the 3DS Dragon Quest games next, maybe it will force them to get off their lazy fucking asses and translate them.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Jul 21, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> But did he actually communicate any personal information online? Other than the voice on some videos, that is.
> They could have tracked him down resorting to... other more direct, Big Brother-ish methods (Spanish authorities and domain owners certainly would cooperate for a copyright infringement case).


 
You don't need to use your real name to register a domain name and/or web host. You can use a disposable debit card to pay for the services. It's still so easy to be anonymous online as long as law enforcement isn't involved.


----------



## mkdms14 (Jul 21, 2014)

I find this a bit pointless I just did a quick google search a found dozen of other websites that are both hosting the patch and pre-patch versions of the rom.  If SE really wanted to do something about it they should of taken action before the patch was released not afterwords.  Clearly they have know about this project for a while but still chose to do nothing until now.  Its there own damn fault.


----------



## Lumstar (Jul 21, 2014)

mkdms14 said:


> I find this a bit pointless I just did a quick google search a found dozen of other websites that are both hosting the patch and pre-patch versions of the rom. If SE really wanted to do something about it they should of taken action before the patch was released not afterwords. Clearly they have know about this project for a while but still chose to do nothing until now. Its there own damn fault.


 
I don't think it's due to the game itself. SaGa 2 (less so 3) were translated when DS was still somewhat viable to release them.


----------



## TheDarkSeed (Jul 21, 2014)

Type-0 wasn't even on my radar. But because SquE did this, I'm gonna download the patch and enjoy the hell out of it...


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## mkdms14 (Jul 21, 2014)

Lumstar said:


> I don't think it's due to the game itself. SaGa 2 (less so 3) were translated when DS was still somewhat viable to release them.


But that game never received the same public attention that type-0 received. I didn't even know there was a fan translation for Saga.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 21, 2014)

That's a great way to treat your fanbase, SE. You can sit there and cry about how they were making money off of the donations.. but they weren't required to actually use the translation (that you so lazily put off). It wasn't a purchase for the product. More-so an optional show of gratitude. They did your work for you, free of charge. Then you do this.


----------



## Zero Dozer (Jul 21, 2014)

TheDarkSeed said:


> Type-0 wasn't even on my radar. But because SquE did this, I'm gonna download the patch and enjoy the hell out of it...


 
Same here. I already have the patched ISO, I got it on day one. When I finish Tactics Ogre, FFT-0 will be my next target.

As for the bugs the patch still has, I wonder if someone on the underground can fix them, as I see that Sky and his team won't be showing up soon.


----------



## Lumstar (Jul 21, 2014)

Mchief298 said:


> That's a great way to treat your fanbase, SE. You can sit there and cry about how they were making money off of the donations.. but they weren't required to actually use the translation (that you so lazily put off). It wasn't a purchase for the product. More-so an optional show of gratitude. They did your work for you, free of charge. Then you do this.


 
Those are secondary issues in these circumstances. More important is whether the patch does in fact include significant enough copyrighted material to warrant shutting down.


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## mkdms14 (Jul 21, 2014)

People interested in a better idea of what happen should read this article posted on Kotaku.  Although there are still many unanswered questions it does shed some light on some events that lead to this legal action to happen.
http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-fan-translation-has-become-a-fiasco-1608340061


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2014)

"People interested in a better idea of what happen should read this article posted on Kotaku."
I wonder how often that phrase has been said seriously. In this case it is probably one of the few times Kotaku does something resembling journalism.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 21, 2014)

mkdms14 said:


> People interested in a better idea of what happen should read this article posted on Kotaku. Although there are still many unanswered questions it does shed some light on some events that lead to this legal action to happen.
> http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-fan-translation-has-become-a-fiasco-1608340061


 

 Aw CRAP! I knew about all of this, but it surprises the hell out of me to see it all on a gaming news site! Sky & Team, I had nothing to do with this news story! Don't point any fingers at me!

EDIT: Hmmm....   You know..... upon further thinking about it, I know exactly who provided all the inside stuff on this. And... it's ok, man. I understand why you did it. You wanted everyone to know a certain someone's not the angel they all think he is. I would've posted it if you had asked me to. But you said you didn't want to bother people with it at the time. I wonder what changed?

It's ok, man. You guys are still cool in my book.


----------



## TheLostSabre (Jul 21, 2014)

Well, that shed new light to this whole situation.


----------



## kingaz (Jul 21, 2014)

basf11214 said:


> In the U.S., aiding and abetting a violation of someone else's copyright is itself a violation. Of course, there are things a translator can do to assert his/her rights (because people who create translations also own the copyright to the translation). For example, Skyblade could counter sue for an injunction against Square publishing the game in the United States (because it violates the translation teams' copyright).


 

Let's assume for that Skyblade actually had the funds to actually assert that defense in court (which is sadly what a lot of copyright law comes down to). 

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER.

I'm skeptical as to whether or not Skyblade would be eligible for copyright in the first place. Translators seem to have a clear claim to copyright, barring some agreement to transfer or forfeit those rights. However, as far as I understand the predominant copyright regimes, the holder of an intellectual property has the exclusive right to authorize derivative works of said property. Although translations are held to have enough original elements to be eligible for copyright protection, they are also most certainly a derivative work. 

Can someone claim copyright protections for their work when said work infringes copyright? This is not an easy question, and certainly not settled; however, precedent is not on the side of the first infringer. As such, since Skyblade and co's translation was A) unauthorized, and B) derivative of S-E's IP, it is not eligible for copyright protection by my estimation. 

If I'm wrong, please direct me to the relevant law and/or case.

Now, let's say that infringing works _do_ merit protection for their original elements. If the rumors are true, Squenix already had a translation in the works for the PSP version (not to mention the upcoming release). Since those easily predate the existence of the fan project, the copyright over said translation(s) trumps the translation cooked up by the team. Remember, it's not which one was published or registered first (although those save you the trouble of having to establish when an unpublished thing was created), but which was created first, as copyright is an automatic thing.

*tl;dr Fan translation is legally screwed on multiple counts.*


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 21, 2014)

Well, since everything's already out there because of that news story and you now know that Sky was talking to SE, I might as well get this out of the way too..... For those of you looking for Sky's team to make corrections to the patch, unless things have changed in the 2 weeks since I was told by a certain someone..... don't lose any sleep of it ever happening. There will be no edits to the patch by the team because most of the team refuses to work with Sky again. 

Those aren't my words, but they came from the same inside source who told me everything in that news story 2 weeks.... or even a month or two ago. So yeah. You're better off hoping another team picks it up and fixes the mistakes.


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## Kane49 (Jul 21, 2014)

If thats all true im very glad sky just released it despite the teams wishes


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2014)

Good to see drama in ROM hacking circles is alive and well.


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## TheLostSabre (Jul 22, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Good to see drama in ROM hacking circles is alive and well.


Drama never dies in grey area. 



LoyalZero1 said:


> There will be no edits to the patch by the team because most of the team refuses to work with Sky again.


Not much of a surprise in this case. I'd feel the same way if I was in their shoes.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Yeah, but it still makes me just a little sad it won't be polished. At the same time I understand why this news story was brought to light, I also understand why Sky did what he did. And i'm still greatful for it. I'm greatful to all of the team. Regardless or not if there's hate amongst the ranks.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 22, 2014)

The_Lost_Sabre said:


> Drama never dies in grey area.



Granted I tend to avoid pokemon, golden sun, Mario (and mario related games), fire emblem.... basically all the games with high level editors and communities to match as well as much of cheats but I have thus far been spared drama on the GBA and DS. I realise though my initial list does serve to exclude a lot so perhaps I am not the best person to ask here.



LoyalZero1 said:


> Yeah, but it still makes me just a little sad it won't be polished. At the same time I understand why this news story was brought to light, I also understand why Sky did what he did. And i'm still greatful for it. I'm greatful to all of the team. Regardless or not if there's hate amongst the ranks.



The hacking community seems to enjoy fixing each other's efforts almost as much as it enjoys fixing the screw ups of the original devs, as the patch was officially released (unlike say the Ash: Archaic Sealed Heat beta that eventually got leaked) and by most accounts could probably be sanitised to be safe to release (or released as an addendum patch which is even better) then I can see it happening. The timeframe in which such a thing does happen is up in the air though.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 22, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> Aw CRAP! I knew about all of this, but it surprises the hell out of me to see it all on a gaming news site! Sky & Team, I had nothing to do with this news story! Don't point any fingers at me!
> 
> EDIT: Hmmm....  You know..... upon further thinking about it, I know exactly who provided all the inside stuff on this. And... it's ok, man. I understand why you did it. You wanted everyone to know a certain someone's not the angel they all think he is. I would've posted it if you had asked me to. But you said you didn't want to bother people with it at the time. I wonder what changed?
> 
> It's ok, man. You guys are still cool in my book.


 

Also keep in mind that it's still on the internet, numerous sites have the patch already and whether or not SE truly intimidated you guys or not, the whole situation is asinine IMHO. I don't know what happened, but SE is just a company who went downhill after merging.


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## Densetsu (Jul 22, 2014)

mkdms14 said:


> People interested in a better idea of what happen should read this article posted on Kotaku. Although there are still many unanswered questions it does shed some light on some events that lead to this legal action to happen.
> http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-fan-translation-has-become-a-fiasco-1608340061


Well, this certainly changes my thoughts about the whole situation.

The article brings up three important pieces of information of which I wasn't aware:

that SE had been in regular correspondence with Sky in the months leading up to the release, even offering to resolve the situation to the satisfaction of _both_ parties,
that Sky was aware that SE was going to release the game outside of Japan and that SE made clear their intent to protect their IP, and
Sky released the translation not only against the wishes of SE, but also against the wishes of those who did the translating for him.
If indeed the above is true, then Sky is at fault, here.

What I've gleaned from this article (and please correct me if I'm wrong), is that Sky has shown a lack of respect, not just to the IP holders, but also to those who worked on the patch for him. Then he tried to twist the story around so that SE were the bad guys, and he was the martyr. Having worked on translations myself, I understand the position of the translators (Merkabah, et al) who wanted to protect the integrity of their work. So naturally my reaction to the initial news would be to side with the small guys.

While I haven't been a fan of the games put out by SE as of late, I wouldn't see that as a reason to "stick it to SE." If Sky was contacted by SE representatives who were nothing but congenial to him, he shouldn't have gone behind their backs. I know that the realm of ROM localization is a legal gray area, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a certain level of respect and honor among all parties involved. I guess that's too much to expect from underground ROM hacking projects, though.

With that, I admit I spoke prematurely about SE, so I retract everything I said about them prior to this post (unless the article linked above turns out to be false, which is probably unlikely).

All I can say is, if SE were to reach out to me regarding a certain IP of theirs, I would have handled the situation quite differently from how Sky did.

Just curious, what exactly was Sky's role in this project? The title of "project lead" doesn't really mean much to me--what did he actually _do_ for the project?

I'll add this article to the first post. Thanks for sharing, mkdms14!


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## TheLostSabre (Jul 22, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> With that, I admit I spoke prematurely about SE, so I retract everything I said about them prior to this post (unless the article linked above turns out to be false, which is probably unlikely).


I second this notion.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 22, 2014)

...............Sky did the iso hacking, made the patcher and stayed on top of the translators.


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## Xoa (Jul 22, 2014)

That Kotaku article has a lot of speculation and a not a lot of sources.

I doubt either party will shine more information on the subject, I'm not happy with the way either of them handled this ordeal.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Trust me.... it's all true. I knew everything that article said. And it was a team member who told me everything. I'm 95% sure it was the same person who provided the info for the article. It's the real deal.


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## caitsith2 (Jul 22, 2014)

The patch is not even really a patch, just a gzipped compressed final iso.  All the patcher does, is look for certain things in the real ISO of disc 1 or disc 2,  and if it finds these values, thereby confirming you have the game, it then does absolutely nothing with the original ISOs, and just simply decompresses the "patch".

Here is the relevant code in the "patcher" that totally proves it.  (You can easily determine this yourself.  Just decompile "Final Fantasy Type-0 Patcher.exe" using either Reflector or dot peek.


```
private void hiloParcheador_DoWork(object sender, DoWorkEventArgs e)
        {
            FileStream data = new FileStream(this.ISOPath, FileMode.Open, FileAccess.Read);
            CDReader reader = new CDReader(data, true);
            if (reader.FileExists(@"PSP_GAME\USRDIR\yellow.pkg"))
            {
                FileStream stream = new FileStream("FFT0.patch", FileMode.Open, FileAccess.Read);
                GZipStream stream3 = new GZipStream(stream, CompressionMode.Decompress);
                BinaryWriter writer = new BinaryWriter(new FileStream(this.trasPath, FileMode.Create, FileAccess.Write));
                byte[] buffer = new byte[0xa000];
                for (int i = stream3.Read(buffer, 0, buffer.Length); i != 0; i = stream3.Read(buffer, 0, buffer.Length))
                {
                    writer.BaseStream.Write(buffer, 0, i);
                }
                writer.Flush();
                writer.Close();
                data.Flush();
                data.Close();
                stream.Flush();
                stream.Close();
                MessageBox.Show("The game has been successfully patched.\nHave fun playing Final Fantasy Type-0 in English.", "Patching has been successful");
            }
            else
            {
                MessageBox.Show("Selected file is incorrect or has been damaged.", "Incorrect ISO");
            }
            base.Invoke(() => this.patching.Close());
        }
```
 
As you can see,  the only thing it does with the iso file, is simply check for the existence of "PSP_GAME\USRDIR\yellow.pkg".  If the file exists in the iso to be "patched", then all it does, is open the "patch", and decompress it to the "patched iso".

Now, you will obviously have to look for the patch yourself. Here however, is a very small fake type-0 iso, that will satisfy the patcher.  (It also satisfies leecherman's patcher, which simply checks a couple of locations in the iso for the existence of some binary bytes.)

Basically, the patch is absolutely 100% infringing on Square-Enix's rights, as it is literally the complete game pre-patched in english.

The ISO merging is slightly less infringing, in that you actually do need to have the iso, but in full reality, 99% of the game content is in fact contained within the replacement yellow.pkg/yellow.fsd files.

In all regards, SkyBladeCloud is royally screwed.


----------



## Zero Dozer (Jul 22, 2014)

As I did read everything here, plus the Kotaku article, I get to understand that Sky trumped on quite EVERYONE.

Still, the early release of this patch ended doing us a favor: We got access to an english translation of Final Fantasy Type-0. Unfortunately, he seems to have done this in such a shady manner, almost as he was claiming credits to himself for the work.

The only thing I want to know now is: Who will either start a new translation, or get his patch on the Internet and fix its bugs?

Also: Yeah, if this checks true, he was really distributing a complete ISO of the game. That sure goes beyond the gray area.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 22, 2014)

You guys should all know that Sky may have had his own motives for doing it, but he told me himself that he was doing what he thought was best for the fans when he released it early like that. Don't beat him up too much. He didn't have to bother with starting the project and sticking with it at all. We all have our faults in life.


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## goth2191 (Jul 22, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> You guys should all know that Sky may have had his own motives for doing it, but he told me himself that he was doing what he thought was best for the fans when he released it early like that. Don't beat him up too much. He didn't have to bother with starting the project and sticking with it at all. We all have our faults in life.


 
Actually, I think Sky did the best for the fans, maybe it wasn't fair with the rest of the team, but if he hadn't do what he did probably the patch would never been released, and nobody could enjoy Type-0 in their PSP... 
Also, let's be honest, the only thing we have seen of the HD port is not even a short scene of gameplay but just an image (that I'm afraid is the only thing we will see of the game on a long time)... and well, at this point and after all the years with the FFXV/KG3 thing (even when they said they where gonna be more transparent with the development of these two games, they have shown almost nothing new since their announcement the last year -.- ) I don't trust in SE (I'm gonna believe in the existence of the game when its released, not before).  
And if the game is really gonna be released, thats probably going to happen in a long year or two...


Anyways, we all owe the thanks to the whole team, so... thanks and let´s hope that everything ends in a good way for everyone in the team n.n


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## koimayeul (Jul 22, 2014)

Oh, the drama.. My gut was telling me already, with paypal donations option and money seemingly only going to Sky's pocket, it was clearly unfair for the whole team work..

Now with the Kotaku insider, it just confirm some more what I have assumed..

I am quite happy SE could now have a better public image, with their actual arranging, on-going talk with the translation team voiding away all these negative comments around this event as an "evil corporation", greedy fans and misleading blog post of Sky..

I can still respect Sky and his team the same, such dedication! Well.. Maybe a bit less than the same now, for the project lead ignoring said team will for the release, the shady aspect of his timing, private talking with SE and the donations feature remains for now and yet to get his side of the story.. I still just wish no serious legal actions will be taken against him and their team, and re-claim my grateful thanks to them all, fan translators and SE!


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## Plstic (Jul 22, 2014)

caitsith2 said:


> The patch is not even really a patch, just a gzipped compressed final iso. All the patcher does, is look for certain things in the real ISO of disc 1 or disc 2, and if it finds these values, thereby confirming you have the game, it then does absolutely nothing with the original ISOs, and just simply decompresses the "patch".
> 
> Here is the relevant code in the "patcher" that totally proves it. (You can easily determine this yourself. Just decompile "Final Fantasy Type-0 Patcher.exe" using either Reflector or dot peek.
> 
> ...


 
When the patch came out I knew something was fishy about the file size.


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## Zero Dozer (Jul 22, 2014)

Uh, they're still an ignorant, evil corporation. You forgot the stain they left with Chrono Ressurrection.

And I can still understand why Sky did release the patch the way it was, it was the only way to save it and even preserve it for future enhancement, even if he or his team isn't involved anymore.


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## bradzx (Jul 22, 2014)

I am sorry what I did just read.  Are you saying this romhacking patch remove after hard working for make English translation for nothing?   Well SE, it is your fault for not release in USA version for PSP.  And now you wasted their best effort to work.  Do not waste people's best effort to work.  Now you ruined your fans for PSP.  Now you are planning to release for PS4 and Xbone.   SE, you are wasting our time for 3 years for nothing.  I am really embarrassed of your business running.   Don't ruin it again or your SE business will turn down for good.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 22, 2014)

Well I knew it was strange that the patch was

a) ~ 2GB
b) convertable to the full game without any of the isos using a tool someone wrote

I will ditch this translation and wait for the HD remake, even if it's not for the Vita


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## Zero Dozer (Jul 22, 2014)

I surely won't.

I didn't like Square's approach of things from the start, and even now, with Kotaku's article, it still sounds like Square was up for dirty playing since the beginning.

Also, what does it matter for the patching method or whatever? His team did the job they were supposed to, that is, they translated the PSP version.

Ditching the translation isn't ditching Sky's work (Which it seems, was nothing); by ditching the translation, you're ditching the efforts done by Merkabah and all of the others.

So, I will still lift my middle finger to Square Enix, and I still will play the translated patch. And pray that someone takes up from where Merkabah and the others stopped and complete their work.


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## WiiUBricker (Jul 22, 2014)

No, by ditching the translation I respect the wishes of the other team members who didn't agree with Sky to release the patch too early (because it wasn't finished) and who wouldn't have released it after the SE announcement anyway. Also I don't like the camera controls.


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## ryuga93 (Jul 22, 2014)

After reading the kotaku article, it seems that Sky has some fault in it but still if SE sues him under copyright reason I think it is unfair,unless they also sued the chinese translation team too, because there are lots of pre-patched iso around the chinese websites,be it either a two disc iso or a combined one. Still I hope this could be solved in a better way...


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## caitsith2 (Jul 22, 2014)

I did some investigating into the entire processs, and determined that a properly made patch, should work around to ~400-500MB, if it had properly done the following things.


```
Extracted ISO 1
    Patched "PSP_GAME\SYSDIR\EBOOT.BIN"
    Patched "PSP_GAME\ICON0.PNG"
    Patched "PSP_GAME\PARAM.SF0"
    Extracted contents of "PSP_GAME\USRDIR\yellow.pkg" to a temp working space.
 
Extracted ISO 2
    Extracted contents of "PSP_GAME\USRDIR\yellow.pkg" to temp working space 2.
 
Merge contents of Temp working space 1, and Temp working space 2.
 
Apply a patch to the merged temp working space.
 
Repack temp working space into ISO 1 "PSP_GAME\USRDIR\yellow.pkg"  (which will also at the same time update "PSP_GAME\USRDIR\yellow.fsd"
 
Build final translated UMD iso.
```


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## C-Kronos (Jul 22, 2014)

caitsith2 said:


> I did some investigating into the entire processs, and determined that a properly made patch, should work around to ~400-500MB, if it had properly done the following things.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
Honestly, I don't think Sky put much thought into the "patcher" itself and just whipped together something that does a few checks to "confirm" you have the game.. How much work did he actually contribute to this project? A novice programmer would have been able to easily replicate that "patcher" fairly easily. 

He probably opted to rush something that "worked" together as the patcher for public release probably wasn't intended to be rushed out as fast; sky makes himself come off as an egomaniac attention whore. He also broke the widely accepted unspoken rule of scrapping a translation project of any type when a publisher decides to put out an official release; I feel that SE would have allowed a release after a certain allotted amount of time after the release of their localization, whether it be HD or not.

I just hope that if SE decides to take legal action, they'll go after sky for releasing it and not the whole team, as it seems the people actually translating it were against the release and essentially sided with SE.

I understand SE's position, and it'd be a completely different matter if they weren't going to release it themselves in some form, irregardless of the fact it'll be done for "next-gen" consoles.  Returning to my belief that they'd allow the release after they've made their money, which is understandable, it's probably because they'd also want it to be playable in English on the platform it was intended for, which makes sense since it'd help various demographics apart of that fanbase to stay happy, and make sense from a business perspective. 

Not to mention, it would have satisfied both parties, and allowed for the game to be accessible on various platforms. It'll still probably come out on "next-gen" platforms, but thanks to sky's reckless actions, he's essentially put the team in danger of legal action just because he more than likely wanted praise as someone who "stuck it to the man."

He handed the matter in an extremely unprofessional and immature manner and has burnt the bridges with everyone who may have possibly considered working with him on any future projects. Not to mention, this could also have negative effects, besides the probable lost sales, on people wanting to translate other games in the future as the possibility of legal repercussions wouldn't make a project like that worth it. I'm sure games and other various forms of media will still be translated in time, but this could put people off of doing something that they may have eventually done.

Thankfully the franchise in question is Final Fantasy, if it were from a franchise with a considerably smaller fanbase, it could be deemed as counter-intuitive from a business standpoint.


----------



## Randqalan (Jul 22, 2014)

> So are we getting mind Frelled by both SE and Sky now ?
> 
> Sorry for the Farscape reference


I hate to quote myself but here it is
SE trying to put us off for years and teasing us then finaly well we will put it on next get (I will believe this when I see it not before BTW)
Sky trying to shortcut for exact reason I honestly do not know and wrong doing to the Trans team


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## castfromhp (Jul 22, 2014)

While I do agree that these revelations showed that Sky made some pretty damn poor decisions regarding the patch, it's a bit much now to start attacking his contribution to the project. It just reeks of bandwagoning, honestly. Before this article was published, it was in line with the trend to hate on SE for shutting down the patch and being the big bad evil corporation out to squash our fun, and now it feels like the pendulum has swung the other way and people are searching for whatever kind of faults and flaws they can to make Sky look worse here even if it's totally unrelated to the actual mistakes he made.

Before I go on, I'm gonna be fully open with the fact I've mostly been a lurker on the GBAtemp forums, and I never bothered to make an account post much with this account until the FF Type 0 patch was released. But even just browsing through the PSP hacking subforum and looking through projects, I saw many instances where Sky stepped in to offer programming advice and other help to fellow fan translators. The patcher he put out for Type 0, which he fully admitted was a rush job before he even released it, may be shoddy, but think a bit before you go discrediting the work he's done since the beginning of the project, such as programming the tools used to actually edit the ROM (just look through the beginning of the Type 0 thread and you can see the progress as he creates and uploads the tools). Remember, this is a guy who has a long history with ROM hacking projects, many of which aren't well known here because they're Spanish language rather than English.

So, yes, what happened was shady, and Sky shouldn't have forced an early release of the patch against the wishes of his team and (presumably) against whatever arrangement was being made between him and SE. But saying his work on the patch "was nothing" or turning this into an excuse to make further attacks on his character or competence as a programmer seems petty and distracts from the actual issues at hand here.

Sadly, the NDA is going to keep us from knowing exactly what went on between SE and Sky, and chances are, if he's facing legal action, then he can't comment on that either (or his lawyer would advise him not to). I also wish I could see more of that Skype conversation for more context, but at the same time I also wish it hadn't been released, since we don't know if any of those team members wanted their private statements made public in such a way...

On a more positive note, I think the team did a fantastic job of supporting the patch on the day it dropped! Merkabah in particular went above and beyond in my opinion by setting up a stream to personally run people through the issues they were having with the patch, and if there was still a great deal of internal strife on the team at that time, he and the others certainly didn't show it, which is admirable.

I think the translators and programmers who put so much work into this patch would like for it to be remembered for more than this fiasco, so let's all keep in mind that despite showing such strong disagreement with Sky's decision to release the patch early, these folks put in their time during a last minute release to make sure everyone could enjoy this game without problems.

And if Sky manages to make it out of his legal troubles and decides to return to fan translation work, let's remember that everyone makes mistakes and that he's someone who has helped many in the community with their own projects. I think if he does choose to return despite knowing that he's burned bridges with so many people and made a dire mistake in the eyes of the community, then it would show he does care a lot about fan translation work and the community, and it would be a mistake to incessantly attack him or drive him out.


----------



## Randqalan (Jul 22, 2014)

Do not take what I said as a Sky bash far from it SE really did the most wrong in telling us mutiple time we will realease it we have 90% done and we are talking about a release and finally well next gen home console and shody tec demo FFVII had a better for PS3 and look were it is no were point proven

SkyBladeCloud do not take what I said wrong I know SE is the real problem they do not want the West to have anything really and it is not new either
No FFIII untill DS
No FFII untill PS
No FFV until PS
FFIII really FFVI
FFII really FFIV and so on KH1 KHFM KH2 KH2FM KHBBS KHBBSFM last I noticed Disney is USA but you all get my point
Also really wondering without going in the red if we would have got VII at all or any on the PS without this selling well here
This was the final straw for me enough of the leftover forget the west attitude

Enough of my rants changes nothing about the SE Shinra corp


----------



## FAST6191 (Jul 22, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> Uh, they're still an ignorant, evil corporation. You forgot the stain they left with Chrono Ressurrection.



The chrono series is still a money maker for them, if one has a trademark you are legally obligated to defend it (you can let copyright, patents and most other things slide, trademarks vanish when you cease to defend them).



Zero Dozer said:


> Also, what does it matter for the patching method or whatever? His team did the job they were supposed to, that is, they translated the PSP version.



Quite the opposite, equally this is part of the "job" of a translation crew. If your patch includes copyrighted data (beyond the quirks with translating a copyrighted work or doing things like putting mario in a sonic game) then you have probably failed at patching. There have been several cases (though not legal ones) in various hacking circles -- why do you think the Wii CIOS stuff comes as an installer rather than a plain IOS? It would be far easier to just use a WAD installer for it all.


----------



## Randqalan (Jul 22, 2014)

^and all this would be null if SE keeps word so
I agree to disagree yes it is their property but like stated we are nothing but dogs in their eyes now throw a scrap when they need us to fetch($find the $)
Maybe it is our fault for saving them by buying the first when they would have went BR


----------



## GHANMI (Jul 22, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> With that, I admit I spoke prematurely about SE, so I retract everything I said about them prior to this post (unless the article linked above turns out to be false, which is probably unlikely).
> 
> All I can say is, if SE were to reach out to me regarding a certain IP of theirs, I would have handled the situation quite differently from how Sky did.
> 
> ...


 

I agree with your post now that the entire picture of the drama is out there (angering the devs AND the translators, which are from what I saw one really cool bunch of people even from a human perspective, and of course their dedication for a high-quality work).

The one nitpick I have is the doubt you're casting on Sky's role. Regardless of anything else, his rom/iso editing and arm mips skills are indisputable, even for unrelated stuff (ToDestiny 2 PSP, God Eater 2, ...). It's a real shame the original team exploded (and that he's probably in troubled legal waters right now so this won't be his hobby for a potentially long while)... it's because of drama like this that the Saturn/Dreamcast fantranslation scene (TM4, Shenmue 2 Undub, etc) and X360>PC port projects (Tomb Raider Underworld) are dead areas. Let's hope it doesn't creep to the PSP, which still has a lot to offer that likely will never be translated.


----------



## Densetsu (Jul 22, 2014)

Just wanted to clarify something: I never "cast any doubt" on Sky's role, nor did I attack his contribution. I just asked a simple question: what did he do for the project? I was just curious because I wanted to know what made him think he had the right to release the patch against the wishes of the rest of the team. Did he do 51% of the work and felt he owned a majority of the patch? (I know it doesnt work that way, but you get the idea). I stand by my original assertion that he shouldn't have released the patch without consent from everyone else, because I'm assuming everyone who worked on it had some important contribution to make, and therefore should have all had an equal say in the decision to release the patch, "project lead" or not. Other than that, I never "attacked" him on anything else.

At any rate, neither side is innocent. I'm no more or less a fan of SE before this started, and I can't exactly advocate for Sky. But I do recognize the tremendous amount of work that went into the translation, so I just hope those who worked on it can be remembered for that. Most importantly, I just hope this incident doesn't deter the talented people who worked on this from translating games in the future, because from what little I played of it, I thought it was strong work.


----------



## Randqalan (Jul 22, 2014)

He did almost all the rom hacking


----------



## idiotstrike (Jul 22, 2014)

I'm trying to understand why do you people start attacking Sky for no contribution. Sky did MOST of the work on the translation and without him, this whole thing wouldn't ever exist to begin with. He was the one who started with this whole thing, translators have joined along the way. He started a project and he sticked with it to the very end, if you think that deserves no respect then I don't know what does.


			
				C-Kronos said:
			
		

> How much work did he actually contribute to this project? A novice programmer would have been able to easily replicate that "patcher" fairly easily.


I doubt a novice programmer would also be able to reverse engineer and decrypt the entire game, which many tried before him but just ditched it saying it's impossible.

None of you have seen the yellow.pkg structure and I also doubt any of you is a programmer, so please let's drop this "Sky did nothing, any programming beginner could do that" subject. I'm fairly sure he had his reasons as of why to copy the contents of the entire data package. Do you realize that there are also videos and pictures? Those would be illegal ANYWAY, no matter if the patch was 20MB or 2.3GB.

As someone who has been following this project from when the day 1 post, I can see some unexpectable behavior from Sky but I also understand his decision. You weren't in the charge of the project and you weren't getting 50 emails/spam on the blog daily asking for a link to the download. Square "announcing" a HD remake on E3 with no gameplay footage also seems like there really wasn't much point behind it other than "Well, we've had the translation the whole time but never really had a reason to release it, until now."

I think we can all agree that both parties were at fault to some extent without insulting the team members.


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## drgnslayers (Jul 22, 2014)

Randqalan said:


> Do not take what I said as a Sky bash far from it SE really did the most wrong in telling us mutiple time we will realease it we have 90% done and we are talking about a release and finally well next gen home console and shody tec demo FFVII had a better for PS3 and look were it is no were point proven
> 
> SkyBladeCloud do not take what I said wrong I know SE is the real problem they do not want the West to have anything really and it is not new either
> No FFIII untill DS
> ...


 
No FF IV Hard type until PS
No Dragon Quest V until DS
No Dragon Quest VI until DS

Differences are Enix closed their NA headquarters. That's why DQV and DQVI were never released in NA. FFV, however, was about to be released in NA for the SNES in 1994 but Squaresoft decided to release FF VI who was released in Japan sooner that year and forget the release of FFV


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## Randqalan (Jul 22, 2014)

You forgot NA did not get FF10 international
Final Fantasy 12 had international
NA did without without trans that is and yes I know that 10 international even had English dubs and menu but did they release it again here nop noda 

So in reality we are an after thought in SE eyes


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## Thirty3Three (Jul 22, 2014)

A friend of mine downloaded the English Patch off a site yesterday and got some "Illegal Activity" notification, from their service provider.

So, for anyone attempting to download the English patch, be careful. Squeenix is a bitch.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Randqalan said:


> You forgot NA did not get FF10 international
> Final Fantasy 12 had international
> NA did without without trans that is and yes I know that 10 international even had English dubs and menu but did they release it again here nop noda
> 
> So in reality we are an after thought in SE eyes


 
Actually.... 10 international was released in america on PS3 as FF 10 HD. but i know what you're saying.


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## Pedeadstrian (Jul 22, 2014)

Thirty3Three said:


> A friend of mine downloaded the English Patch off a site yesterday and got some "Illegal Activity" notification, from their service provider.
> 
> So, for anyone attempting to download the English patch, be careful. Squeenix is a bitch.


That can happen to anyone with any kind of download. I highly doubt Square Enix is going to every single ISP and saying "Hey, monitor this very specific activity."


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## Thirty3Three (Jul 22, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> That can happen to anyone with any kind of download. I highly doubt Square Enix is going to every single ISP and saying "Hey, monitor this very specific activity."


 

Yeah. It's apparently a "Luck of the draw" type deal. Just letting you all know to be careful. They're monitoring torrents.


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## GHANMI (Jul 23, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> Just wanted to clarify something: I never "cast any doubt" on Sky's role, nor did I attack his contribution. I just asked a simple question: what did he do for the project? I was just curious because I wanted to know what made him think he had the right to release the patch against the wishes of the rest of the team. Did he do 51% of the work and felt he owned a majority of the patch? (I know it doesnt work that way, but you get the idea). I stand by my original assertion that he shouldn't have released the patch without consent from everyone else, because I'm assuming everyone who worked on it had some important contribution to make, and therefore should have all had an equal say in the decision to release the patch, "project lead" or not. Other than that, I never "attacked" him on anything else.
> 
> At any rate, neither side is innocent. I'm no more or less a fan of SE before this started, and I can't exactly advocate for Sky. But I do recognize the tremendous amount of work that went into the translation, so I just hope those who worked on it can be remembered for that. Most importantly, I just hope this incident doesn't deter the talented people who worked on this from translating games in the future, because from what little I played of it, I thought it was strong work.


 

Please accept all of my apologies then. I was reading your reply in the same tone of another reply (as in "What did he actually do?" was "He did nothing" (which would be a lie) rather than "a question" followed by calling out self-centered individuality coming before the team spirit) in the above so my sarcasm detector went haywire.

As for the translators, Merkabah is searching for new stuff to translate. He's helping us with *shameless self-plug* the Ni no Kuni DS project (incidentally, it's the version that's specifically said by L-5/BN not to be ported/localized any time soon, in case anyone wondered about our team's self-awareness  ) and his writing is as brilliant as ever (hilarious item descriptions) and we really wish for him to stick around with us as long as possible. That said he's also seeking other translations, so if any romhacker is interested they can work up a deal with him and "steal" him from us (I wouldn't mind a Tengai Makyou translation to be honest  )
Other than that, I sure hope the other translators didn't have the whole incident sour up their appreciation of this hobby.


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## starving2death (Jul 23, 2014)

Let's not forget this is KOTAkU, from the writer behind this gem: http://kotaku.com/the-real-problem-with-that-controversial-sexy-video-ga-478120280 Not only that, we haven't even heard Sky's side of the story. And the article is full of speculation.


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## GHANMI (Jul 23, 2014)

starving2death said:


> Let's not forget this is KOTAkU, from the writer behind this gem: http://kotaku.com/the-real-problem-with-that-controversial-sexy-video-ga-478120280 Not only that, we haven't even heard Sky's side of the story. And the article is full of speculation.


 

Oh that. I find it appropriately ironic that the same writer attempting here to paint Sky here as "egoistic", "disrespectful when dealing with the game developers", is the one who tried to get poor Kamitani publicly lynched not only once (for his on-going SJW agenda shit harming both creative license and real-life activism alike) but TWICE (after he sent him a joke artwork, even after being called "like a sexually frustrated teenager").

Distributing the iso is definitely asking for trouble (seems like there's a few KB tool that converts the "patch" to a fully working PSP iso) and the team drama was really ugly, but the way they paint him ("selfish"? really?) as the sole party to blame in the whole story is over-the-top.

They didn't even have their facts straight.
Chrono Trigger-related fan projects which are called that despite being what a Chinese pirate dev would do with the IP (there's really not a difference: their work was sold for profit) are not fan-translations.
Engines with unauthorized use of existing IPs being C&D'ed is hardly a novelty: besides the more famous fan projects, Nintendo and everyone else does it routinely on the App Store/Google Play/FB to take down all of those clones.
As a bit of trivia, Square used to be C&D-happy even going back to 1998: Alexander O. Smith mentions he knows of a Russian translation that was made two weeks after the PAL release for Final Fantasy VIII and how Square sued the shop to oblivion (and shut them down) because it was being sold.

Those "journalists" also failed to mention this isn't the fist time this specific case happened (although here the patch is copyright-infringing as well). It happened before.
Someone was fan-translating 7th Dragon for the DS back in 2009, a year or two after its release.
He posted a patch, that certainly didn't have any copyrighted data. A menu patch.
Sega USA sent him a C&D to remove the patch and the whole blog, posts and all.
The current translation, published in 2014, was kept under wraps the whole way until its release.

BTW, Don't get your hopes up for an eventual patch restoration.



FAST6191 said:


> The hacking community seems to enjoy fixing each other's efforts almost as much as it enjoys fixing the screw ups of the original devs, as the patch was officially released (unlike say the Ash: Archaic Sealed Heat beta that eventually got leaked) and by most accounts could probably be sanitised to be safe to release (or released as an addendum patch which is even better) then I can see it happening. The timeframe in which such a thing does happen is up in the air though.


 
Is there any chance to get the blessing of the original translation team to continue working on this one? Psycoblaster pretty much vanished two years before the leak, and DarthNemesis (only one almost reachable) wasn't the lead hacker but merely a translator.
I really hope it can be rescued from limbo, finished and properly preserved, a happy end like with Arabian Nights SFC (core hacker teams from yonin translations disbanded and went mia, someone else who had the files handed them to other hackers to finish and release -a translator?) if possible.


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## Randqalan (Jul 23, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> Actually.... 10 international was released in america on PS3 as FF 10 HD. but i know what you're saying.


I just love how they can put something off now days wait bump the price change little to none of it and force feed it to some people yes that is way after the fact
the time line
PS2 FF10 international January 31, 2002
PS3 FF10 international March 18, 2014
Dude 12 years before NA got it and different platform to boot just help prove my point after thought again way after

Actually this can is the same for all the KH series recent to closer to go together but still the same thing


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## Idaho (Jul 23, 2014)

It's a good thing anyway, I wouldnt buy a PS4/xbone or vita for this and the game existed on PSP, it seems that it'd have been a waste for occidental gamers, not for Square Enix's money though, I can understand that, if they really had a translation ready, they should have released it for occidental market even if not on material supports, its just a matter of respect...


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## nexuspunk (Jul 23, 2014)

i can kind of understand why square would be upset, but considering this was made for the psp and square made no mention at any time of bringing it here and localizing it makes no sense. The patch was made under the assumption that square would never bring this game over seas, so they can't blame sky for making the patch in the first place. I honestly think they could have handled this differently, it kinda just made it feel like that unless square is making money off it, they want to sweep it under the rug. i've never been the biggest fan of square, so don't quote me on this. But it was just a fan translation done in sky's spare time, its not like he was trying to rip them off.


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## Zero Dozer (Jul 24, 2014)

Nexus, the word is that Sky did almost nothing on making the patch.


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## LoyalZero1 (Jul 24, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> Nexus, the word is that Sky did almost nothing on making the patch.


 

Guys...... let's not downplay Sky's contributions to the project. Sky did a hell of a good job on the things he was responsible for. The thing is, the translators put in the most time consuming work, and they just would like a little more recognition for their efforts, instead of people only thanking Sky. Especially since they could've quit with not only all of the drama going on at the time, but they were thinking of the fans the whole time they were staying up while translating like crazy. So yeah. The translators did do most of the work because that was what their particular skill set required. But if you take away just one thing Sky did - including the surprise release - the patch wouldn't be here and it probably could've been held for a few years longer with the SE E3 announcement that he jumped in front of. I know the team's pissed he did that without their input, but maybe.... just maybe he felt he was trapped between SE and the team, feeling that if it wasn't going to be released right then and there, it was going to go to waste. Sky didn't tell me that, but i'm just speculating in this particular post.


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## pokefloote (Jul 24, 2014)

Seriously, I remember people were trying to "crack" the game's files for a long time with no success before Sky came along and started figuring everything out. People were able to translate things, but not put the translations into the game before Sky started exploring the game's files.

Ignoring legal stuff for the moment, I'm grateful to Sky and the rest of the team's work on the patch.


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## samljer (Jul 24, 2014)

If Square sues and wins, I wont buy this game on principle.


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## Silentsurvivor (Jul 24, 2014)

I think the idea of "I'm not gonna buy it fuck you SE lol!" is pretty dumb and unnecessary. The game is good and it deserves to be bought and played - the developers who worked hard on making it don't have anything to do at all with this mess and they deserve the recognition for a job well done. Also in buying good games and rejecting terrible ones (like what happened with Lightning Returns) you're telling Square what kind of games you want them to make.

I frankly don't get all the rage some people have with SE lately. Sure they mostly went to crap with FFXIII but they're trying to fix it. Bravely Default was great, they're going to make Kingdom Hearts 3, Type-0 getting an HD release on Next Gen consoles, Final Fantasy XV looks to be pretty awesome, and Final Fantasy Explorers looks amazing as well as a love letter to traditional FF fans. They're coming up with pretty good games again. I don't see any "spitting on fans" here.


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## HHTurtle (Jul 24, 2014)

FF Type-0 is a great game and should be supported whether it is released on the PSP, PS4 or XB1.


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## Idaho (Jul 25, 2014)

Silentsurvivor said:


> I frankly don't get all the rage some people have with SE lately. Sure they mostly went to crap with FFXIII but they're trying to fix it. Bravely Default was great, they're going to make Kingdom Hearts 3, Type-0 getting an HD release on Next Gen consoles, Final Fantasy XV looks to be pretty awesome, and Final Fantasy Explorers looks amazing as well as a love letter to traditional FF fans. They're coming up with pretty good games again. I don't see any "spitting on fans" here.


 

Too bad Bravely Default wasnt made by Square Enix but by silicon studio even though it was edited by Square...


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## Type0Translator (Jul 27, 2014)

As a a person who worked hard translating this game, I decided to post in this thread mainly to call people out on their bullshit, as well as letting you know my personal opinion and experience: I joined the project in early November, just a few days after Adam did, and started working on the so called "translation sub-team". At that time I didn't understand why we had two teams, but it didn't took long until I, along with some other translators, had to directly talk to Sky about Adams attitude towards the sub-team, here I quote some of the complains we had to make: 





> [11/15/2013 8:58:37 PM] ***: Hey Sky, it's *** from Adam's translation team. I also go by *** in a lot of the forums and have done projects with ***, such as the ***. I have some concerns about Adam's attitude and organization with the team, if you don't mind discussing it with me.





> [11/16/2013 4:14:50 AM] ***: So, yeah. We're doing our best with our free time to translate the lines, and have been doing well for the most part. I'm not sure if this is how Adam is usually is, but his tone hasn't been professional in my opinion. [11/16/2013 4:18:33 AM] ***: I mean, don't get me wrong, the productivity is good and all, but Adam's attitude has been kinda unnerving on some of us





> [11/16/2013 4:18:49 AM] ***: his organization on guidelines has been unclear. I'm hoping I don't come off as a complaining idiot, or anything, just kinda worried cause of morale and all





> [11/18/2013 10:18:31 PM] ***: We got through a lot of progress, no doubt, but adam's attitude kinda urks me and some of the other translators. Condescending in a sort. I get that he's busy with his life, but so are we. We're amateur translators, some with no prior experience in the field. He's just not handling the group professionally in my opinion. He ranges from "your translations suck" to "wtf are you doing" when we're trying to do exactly what he wants us to do.





> [11/18/2013 10:19:27 PM] ***: If this was a paid position, I wouldn't mind it, since I've dealt with worst, but this is not the case. We're all equally giving our free time to translate just as well.


 More... 





> [11/18/2013 10:20:52 PM] ***: It may be just him, personality wise, I'm not sure. I don't know the guy [11/18/2013 10:21:01 PM] ***: but his tone is not professional [11/18/2013 10:21:12 PM] ***: Which could rub off on OTHER translators


 Another one... 





> [11/18/2013 10:26:11 PM] ***: Like I said, we're making a lot of progress [11/18/2013 10:26:16 PM] ***: but there has been complaints about Adam [11/18/2013 10:26:31 PM] ***: Adam just wants things done [11/18/2013 10:26:39 PM] ***: We understand [11/18/2013 10:27:34 PM] ***: Some are fine and whatever with it, but others are kinda off-putting with it. My friend who's helping with the translations quit.


 During the conversations, Sky expressed his disappointment and let us know he'd be having some words with not only Adam, but with the Spanish translation team as well, in order to avoid this kind of issues. 





> [11/18/2013 10:20:17 PM] Sky: wow... alright... I didn't know that... [11/18/2013 10:20:22 PM] Sky: I'll talk to him [11/18/2013 10:29:03 PM] Sky: alright... I gotta think what to do [11/18/2013 10:30:15 PM] Sky: Well, I'll have to tell some other people... They are trying to form a Spanish translation team based on all your work. [11/18/2013 10:30:26 PM] Sky: So I better do something to avoid this, just in case...


 I don't know If it had anything to do with Sky (although it seems so), but after that, Adam's attitude changed and we could continue working normally. Until the translation was finished, that is. We finished translated the game's text in mid-March, and then we noticed all our work was being replaced by Adam's own translations. Let me put it this way: The text was translated, proofread, AND THEN, replaced by Adam's very own version. Once again, I had to complain to Sky, this time personally (I don't know if anyone else complained about this too, but I wouldn't be surprised): 





> [3/18/2014 8:28:54 PM] ***: Hi there, how is everything [3/18/2014 8:29:06 PM] Sky: hey yo [3/18/2014 8:29:07 PM] Sky: what's up [3/18/2014 8:29:16 PM] ***: just about to give you some bad news [3/18/2014 8:29:28 PM] Sky: Aww sorry to hear that, but do tell me [3/18/2014 8:29:32 PM] Sky: hoefully everything can be solved


 [...] 





> [3/18/2014 8:57:21 PM] ***: Well, as you will most likely see on the SVN [3/18/2014 8:57:25 PM] ***: text translation is finished and only lacks some more proofreading. [3/18/2014 8:57:48 PM] Sky: Hum... I'm actually worried about how many people have access to the SVN, I didn't know you guys do in the sub-team [3/18/2014 8:58:25 PM] ***: I'm concerned about all our work being thrown away and replaced by Adam's own interpretation. [3/18/2014 8:58:34 PM] ***: I'm talking about text that has been proofread several times by beta testers; now they have to go through the entire game again with no good reason IMHO. [3/18/2014 8:58:50 PM] ***: Errors are being introduced, not to mention it makes for another lack of respect towards our hard work. [3/18/2014 8:58:58 PM] ***: I don't know how much work is left in the romhacking department, or how many images still need edition, but my work, that has been approved by editors and testers, is now disappearing from the project. [3/18/2014 8:59:07 PM] ***: I wouldn't have wasted all these months if I knew this would happen.


 [...] 





> [3/18/2014 9:00:14 PM] Sky: I don't think he wants the entire game being retranslated using his words, or anything like that.


 [...] 





> [3/18/2014 9:01:02 PM] Sky: Just give it a few more days, and tell me if your stuff keeps being replaced like that


 I didn't give it a few days, but A FEW MONTHS seeing how everything I had worked on was disappearing with no reason, and being replaced by different English, non-proofread sentences, even with mistakes in some cases. I replayed Sky in early June: 





> [6/5/2014 3:45:02 AM] ***: Hi! you got a minute to talk? [6/5/2014 3:46:05 AM] Sky: Hey yo! [6/5/2014 3:47:16 AM] Sky: Sure, tell me. [6/5/2014 3:47:51 AM] ***: This is going nowhere.


 [...] 





> [6/5/2014 3:48:31 AM] Sky: My goodness, what's this time? xD [6/5/2014 3:48:52 AM] ***: I'm sorry to bother you, but my work keeps being redone, some text is now worse than before. [6/5/2014 3:48:58 AM] ***: I don't know why the main scenario was split in the first place. [6/5/2014 3:49:36 AM] Sky: I actually agree with you, nothing has been done in the past months, even some videos still need edition. [6/5/2014 3:49:44 AM] Sky: I even had to ask for video edition help to the Spanish team cos at this rate, the patch's gonna be released with some dates in Japanese.


 [...] 





> [6/5/2014 3:50:14 AM] ***: If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you to revert SVN commits done after the last proofreading iteration. [6/5/2014 3:50:30 AM] Sky: I'd gladly do that, but there is no way to track those specific commits. [6/5/2014 3:50:37 AM] Sky: But be sure I'll talk to Adams about this, I still don't get what's preventing them from editing the last few videos, or even releasing the patch like this. [6/5/2014 3:50:46 AM] Sky: Japanese dates are by no means experience-breaking. You can even see them in English in the CC xD.


 The next day Sky tweeted that he would be releasing the patch immediately: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I got back to him once the patch was out: 





> [6/8/2014 3:45:02 AM] ***: Well I guess Adam was reasonable this time, for once. [6/8/2014 3:46:05 AM] Sky: yeah, kinda [6/8/2014 3:47:16 AM] ***: all the luck to you guys then [6/8/2014 3:47:51 AM] Sky: thanks, it's also thanks to you, eh? [6/8/2014 3:48:31 AM] ***: Lol [6/8/2014 3:48:52 AM] ***: I didn't do much. You guys are the ones doing the most work


 But I was wrong: after reading Kotaku's article... I see it clear: Adam simply couldn't stand the fact that he wasn't the project leader, so he created his own bullshit of "sub-team" to treat us all like shit. He wanted to take all the credit throwing away all our proofread translations and replacing them with his own text. To be fair, they weren't that bad, but after playing June's release of the patch, I noticed some mistakes (specially text going off-screen) that were perfectly correct back in March. No wonder why Adam didn't want Sky to release the patch, or Merkabah (As far as I understand, he agreed to have videos edited in a few hours and after 3 months they weren't ready). Regarding that "coredecepts", he didn't do anything on the project, but playing our translation. The rest of the team (dozens of people) supported Sky on the release and still support him nowadays. Sky hasn't confirmed this to me, but I'm sure Adam was everything but reasonable with him. As far as I'm concerned, that's what triggered the early release. However, Sky refused to tell me the details of their conversations, as expected from a man. On the other hand Adam has been talking to some Square Enix lapdogs on kotaku like a butt-hurt attention whore. AND YET, we still have to wait to Sky's version of the story. Don't forget that, without his implication on the project, all you'd have is a useless translation spreadsheet / PDF.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jul 27, 2014)

Maybe since SquareEnix had the upper hand they were going to offer him next to nothing IF the game was localized for Vita or (doubt it PSP?) There must have been something that happened in those meetings that SkyBladeCloud didn't agree with. I think the team wanted him to accept their offer and Sky wanted nothing to do with it because it wasn't enough for the 3 years that it took.



Thirty3Three said:


> Yeah. It's apparently a "Luck of the draw" type deal. Just letting you all know to be careful. They're monitoring torrents.


 
Some ISP's monitor ALL P2P activity(especially the really evil ones like Cox, Charter, Armstrong and Comcast and more) And are anal and paranoid about you downloading content which they can provide through their overpriced shitty media streaming service. 

My girlfriend wanted to test her P2P speeds (when she first got broadband internet) got a letter in the mail for torrenting "Big Buck Bunny" a couple of years ago, which is a highly open source movie and doesn't fall under any "infringing" sections.


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## Drink the Bleach (Jul 28, 2014)

Oh wow... I didn't even know or think a translation could exist. Thank you SE lawsuit threat for making this news and thus bringing existence of the translation to my attention -Immediately googles and downloads 2GB file-


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## Nightwish (Jul 28, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> The chrono series is still a money maker for them, if one has a trademark you are legally obligated to defend it (you can let copyright, patents and most other things slide, trademarks vanish when you cease to defend them).


 
And they also could, like many IP holders, say that they are aware of the project and allow it's continuation without losing anything.


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## CompassNorth (Jul 28, 2014)

Nightwish said:


> And they also could, like many IP holders, say that they are aware of the project and allow it's continuation without losing anything.


Lol it's Squeenix you're talking about, if someone does something with their IP without their permission they're going after it like they always have.
I really don't see how Square is the bad guy here.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jul 28, 2014)

Square Enix is also doing an English translation/port of the game and a fan translation would kinda diminish that. Why play the HD version when you can play the fan translation on a pirated game for free?

Not that the PSP-owning pirating Final Fantasy base is as huge as people make it out to be but still, they would rather want people to buy the HD version than play a pirated one, and sending a simple cease and desist order solves that problem.


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## AdanK85 (Jul 28, 2014)

Type0Translator


I am both a sub-team member and later, part of the main team member.

While there is that history in the sub-team (and Adam even admitted to that problem… lolz), we can't expect every translators to have the same sort of personality nor do we have the liberty to try and understand each other. I can complain a lot on many people if I wanted to. I'd agree there are times he went overboard at times, but everyone has their own personality and as a small community, we have to learn to accept each and other's defects. Still, you are entitled to your opinion.

However, everything from 3/18 onward are pretty much "guesses" based on what you have.

That kind of insult to Core is outrageous. I hope that you can at least apologize on that statement. While in the sub-team, I can understand your point of view since we pretty much did not interact with the main team, thus not knowing what happened. I can assure you that Core and many others really did their job.

I will be frank. How many BETA testers do you think actually BETA-TESted properly ? Some can't, even if they wanted to... e,g Sean, due to the complication with making a beta. While a few others (not all) who managed to make one, either disappear somewhere and not HELPING much with the beta-testing (worst case... leaking some pictures of the beta for their own ego and even pilfered one of my pictures from the team bug report). They should review themselves of this shameful business or at least ASK the team. Core is one who helped with text edition, worked with the bug reports, re-aligned all COMM messages, beta tested at least 2 play-through and communicated in the team chat in skype. So, the statement saying he's just playing the translation is downright insult to his work.

Merkabah agreed to help with the video edition in the last minute after Artistan is unable to contribute any further in the final moments due to busy personal life (a newborn especially). Unfortunately, Art is still the one with the better skill set for movie editing. Merkabah, on the other hand, helped a lot with the text edition and translation recheck especially the codex and cut scenes (which he streamed his work). There's even that toilet joke we had.

Since I did not get access to SVN and I do understand the need to limit its access, I can't comment on whatever happened over it. I do know that a lot of our translation needed to be adjusted to match the context of the game. Even though the translation is correct, there is problem with character personality/tone, the reference, the usage, context etc that are discovered during the beta.

Sky, on the other hand, did what he can do as the programmer for the project, seeing that he has his own life issues to tackle with. He's shown great perseverance to hold on to the project when most if not all the former translators went MIA last year before fresh bloods fill in and got the project running again.

I don't know what happened the month before the release with regard to the NDA thingy since I myself went MIA, exhausted with the beta-testing and report.

This is my only complain...
Seriously, the beta-testing phase is a joke...please please PLEASE don't offer to beta-test a team's effort with a wrong commitment (i.e. just to get early access to show off your ego). You will just be a liability to any potential project. This project almost ended prematurely on March/April! If that's what makes a qualified beta tester in the real gaming industry, I will be some kind of master beta-tester along with Core but honestly, that can't be true and truthfully, an insult to the professional beta-testers out there. I do understand that some however, simply do not have time and that's excusable. I'll take this opportunity to address to any future closed beta-testers for any translation project. Do bear in mind that you are beta testing a "TRANsLATIon" project instead of "game". So, your main focus is the translation instead of gameplay. Otherwise, you might as well play the "uNtrAnsLatEd" game. We could have no doubt cut the time frame by a lot if we did this properly!

While there are no doubts that some members of the team aren't present during certain period of time, We share the belief that "Personal life is still more important".

In short, to me, everyone contributed their own role. Whether you are the sub-team/main team/ex-team member, we managed to pull this mammoth down as a unit. That's all that matters. (read the forum from pages 1-225.. the history is something worthwhile to read if you are free... I did... so, I respect everyone who contributed to this project regardless of what happened in the end).

I'd hope square-enix (their decision makers) will cross check themselves in their decision making. This project has been known for at least a year now (even with kotaku contacted them) and they should've make a firm and fast decision instead of avoiding and giving false hope all the time. Regardless, money is the one that is doing the talking in business, so can't really blame them. But it hurts us a lot.

Blah, I forgot my point. So, yea... stop pointing fingers and let this rest already and hope for the best for everyone, which include sky for whatever SE is doing to him.

Fun fact: At least 1200++ reported bugs by what little active beta-testing team we have in the first bug report document, some didn't report but access the svn to do the changes. Out of these, at least 900 cross checked by Core. Sky and others also contributed with their remarks/solutions and fixes. Maybe one day, I might be able to share the ~800mb of pictures we bugged when the timing is right.


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## Pedeadstrian (Jul 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Square Enix is also doing an English translation/port of the game and a fan translation would kinda diminish that. Why play the HD version when you can play the fan translation on a pirated game for free?
> 
> *Not that the PSP-owning pirating Final Fantasy base is as huge as people make it out to be* but still, they would rather want people to buy the HD version than play a pirated one, and sending a simple cease and desist order solves that problem.


You mean the PSP/PC/smartphone/tablet-owning pirating Final Fantasy base. Heck, there's even a PPSSPP for Blackberry. The amount of potential sales loss due to piracy is huge. I've been upset with Square Enix for a while, but a cease and desist from them (especially if what that kotaku article said was true) doesn't make me more upset.


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## Gahars (Jul 29, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> You mean the PSP/PC/smartphone/tablet-owning pirating Final Fantasy base. Heck, there's even a PPSSPP for Blackberry.


 







Just because it's possible to access it on those platforms doesn't mean people are going to bother. The pirate ship for something like this is less a dreadnought and more a canoe.


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## sandytf (Jul 29, 2014)

I don't care about cost. If I'm going to put 100+ hours into a game, I want to play the best version available.


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## Pedeadstrian (Jul 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Just because it's possible to access it on those platforms doesn't mean people are going to bother. The pirate ship for something like this is less a dreadnought and more a canoe.


I know that. I was just trying to say that the potential sales loss in SE's eyes is bigger than the amount of people who own a hacked PSP. If PSP emulators _only_ worked on Blackberry, I'm sure SE wouldn't care less.


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## Madridi (Aug 21, 2014)

Why was my post marked as trolling? I merely asked what did I miss in regards to another post.

That's not nice..


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## Arras (Aug 21, 2014)

madridi4ever said:


> Why was my post marked as trolling? I merely asked what did I miss in regards to another post.
> 
> That's not nice..


Responses to a deleted post often get deleted as well (because they tend to be just as offtopic).


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## FailName (Aug 21, 2014)

Arras said:


> Responses to a deleted post often get deleted as well (because they tend to be just as offtopic).


I'm not sure how talking about the deletion of the "I’m forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation project" post and the restoring of those removed posts on Sky site is off-topic. This entire thread is about how the whole thing was shut down, and now everything's mysteriously reappeared (although without any downloads or screenshots).

I don't even know how talking about it would considered trolling.


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## Cyan (Aug 21, 2014)

Then it's my mistake.
I thought the pages had always been there, and telling "it's back" was like a user answered at "what did I miss?"


> You missed a troll asking for flaming and confusion.


Because the website has always been there, and the patch wasn't back, so it was confusing, I agreed it was trolling because the patch is not back.

What's available, is the merger (which still contains illegal files!).
Giving access to the patch is still considered illegal, and access to the merger is the same as it contains parts of the ISO.


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## BORTZ (Aug 21, 2014)

This sort of this astounds me. Why not do something like... Hire the translators responsible? Mmm? Or something I dont know. Put them to work brining over the other Japan only games we are missing


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## Madridi (Aug 22, 2014)

Cyan said:


> Then it's my mistake.
> I thought the pages had always been there, and telling "it's back" was like a user answered at "what did I miss?"
> 
> Because the website has always been there, and the patch wasn't back, so it was confusing, I agreed it was trolling because the patch is not back.
> ...


Yeah I am the one who asked what did I miss, but that's not the point. Even if the original post was trolling (which it isn't apparently) that doesn't make the geniune replies after that trolling by default.

Either way, no harm done. I was just wondering what was going on


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## Cyan (Aug 22, 2014)

I check all posts and provide a single reason.
I don't always remove the first one for a reason, and the other ones for "replying to the first one".
If it's part of a deleted lot, chance are the deletion reason is meant for the first deleted post.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 22, 2014)

madridi4ever said:


> Yeah I am the one who asked what did I miss, but that's not the point. Even if the original post was trolling (which it isn't apparently) that doesn't make the geniune replies after that trolling by default.
> 
> Either way, no harm done. I was just wondering what was going on


 
If the posts after it were quoting or generally replying to the trashed post, they will be removed as well as they will appear off topic. This has been done thousands of times on the forums.

'd By Cyan...>.>


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## BUSy67 (Aug 22, 2014)

I found this conversation on Facebook between a few team members. Maybe it gives some insight and clarifies some previous posts.


*Sean Mei* Damnit....to be fair, I saw this coming but honestly, after all the work we put into it, I didn't want to believe it.
July 19 at 5:46pm


​*Ad Ams* I'm just laughing at Sky for being such an idiot and releasing it even after SE contacted him and after the E3 announcement. We all advised against it, but he did it anyways.
July 20 at 1:50am


​*Sean Mei* Well it's not like he got into any serious trouble so at least that's good I guess...Personally, I think Sky did a good thing by releasing it but he should have seen this coming since he did get a warning. I stand by his decision to distribute the translation but he shouldn't have accused Square of crushing us or anything.
July 20 at 2:25am


​*Ian Darmetko* Well at least it's out there now. If it wasn't released it would have been a waste of time right?
July 20 at 4:22am


​*Ad Ams* the goal was to get the game released in English, so I wouldn't have viewed it as a waste of time. And I spent 1500+ hours on it.


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## Madridi (Aug 22, 2014)

Cyan said:


> I check all posts and provide a single reason.
> I don't always remove the first one for a reason, and the other ones for "replying to the first one".
> it's it's part of a deleted lot, chance are the deletion reason is meant for the first deleted post.





Tom Bombadildo said:


> If the posts after it were quoting or generally replying to the trashed post, they will be removed as well as they will appear off topic. This has been done thousands of times on the forums.
> 
> 'd By Cyan...>.>



Guys, you are missing the point. I am not saying that if the op was a troll the the replies shouldn't be deleted.
What I meant that the following posts should not be marked as troll. Even a "reply to troll" would suffice


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## LoyalZero1 (Aug 23, 2014)

BUSy67 said:


> I found this conversation on Facebook between a few team members. Maybe it gives some insight and clarifies some previous posts.
> 
> 
> *Sean Mei* Damnit....to be fair, I saw this coming but honestly, after all the work we put into it, I didn't want to believe it.
> ...


 

 lol.... That's a pretty suspicious looking post, coming from a mysterious first time poster... And how would you (being so new...) know where to find the team members on facebook, eh?


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## jonthedit (Aug 23, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> lol.... That's a pretty suspicious looking post, coming from a mysterious first time poster... And how would you (being so new...) know where to find the team members on facebook, eh?


 
He links it... I verified it too.


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## BUSy67 (Aug 23, 2014)

LoyalZero1 said:


> lol.... That's a pretty suspicious looking post, coming from a mysterious first time poster... And how would you (being so new...) know where to find the team members on facebook, eh?


 


I’ve been lurking in the forums as a guest for some time now. I only recently created an account because I was fed up with both Doomtrain and SkyBladeCloud’s secrecy and wanted to shed some light on a couple matters. I do feel Doomtrain has been more open on information regarding the incident, but it’s not enough to satisfy me.

I never contacted Doomtrain or SkyBladeCloud to get team member’s information. I’ve never contacted them period. That 200+ page Type-0 RomHacking thread contained enough information to use on Google to find the conversation I provided.

I seek to discover the “truth” behind the incident from both a legal aspect and a team cohesion aspect. My motivations are driven from the sentimental value I hold from the work they did. Eventually the “truth” will come out. And if it doesn’t, you will have a slew of conversations and links to talk about to come to a sort of consensus of what happened. I can supply some of those links, but I’ll need anyone who’s interested to help.


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## LoyalZero1 (Aug 23, 2014)

Makes sense.


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## DantesInferno13 (Aug 24, 2014)

BUSy67


> I was fed up with both Doomtrain and SkyBladeCloud’s secrecy and wanted to shed some light on a couple matters. I do feel Doomtrain has been more open on information regarding the incident, but it’s not enough to satisfy me.


 I don't know man, i talked to SkyBladeCloud just a couple of hours ago and he was completely open about everything. I didn't asked much though, my main concern was the invisible CC bug, which btw, was solved


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## Zero Dozer (Aug 24, 2014)

Would you show us proof that Sky showed his face somewhere in Earth?


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## DantesInferno13 (Aug 24, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> Would you show us proof that Sky showed his face somewhere in Earth?



I say the best proof is to directly talk to him. He hasn't been so active lately, probably because he is busy or in vacations, but he does answer Skype calls.


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## Zero Dozer (Aug 24, 2014)

I'm not a Skype user.

Man, why doesn't he just come here and tell his two cents? After all, it's his reputation the one which got stained by all of the confusion involving the "patch" (as he was pratically distributing a complete ISO).


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## DantesInferno13 (Aug 24, 2014)

I don't see how that "stinks" his reputation considering I'm playing the game directly thanks to him. Square Enix, on the other side, has lost me as the veteran Final Fantasy fan I used to be. it's not like Sky posted directions on how to pirate the game either; just the opposite, his patcher encouraged people to buy the game.

As a matter of fact, I'm only playing Type-0 because I naively bought the Japanese version years ago, thinking my support could help a western release. I won't be paying for any other Square Enix title: Years has passed and I truly get sad, and embarrassed when I read pages such as this one:

http://operation-suzaku.com/2013/08...ne-of-the-first-questions-im-going-to-tackle/ (Really? Well done, Mr. Rogers)

Also, gotta say I'm pretty surprised i found a person on the internet with no Skype account


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## Zero Dozer (Aug 28, 2014)

Still, why didn't HE show up himself to clarify the entire mess?

I know how you feel about it, because actually, Square Enix doesn't give a fuck to american fans ever since the 1990's. Front Mission, since its beginning, the entire Final Fantasy translation fiasco before the PSX era, geez, how did we get Bravely Default here?

The video game industry has become evil as of the late years. There are still game makes which still bother making good games, but for Square Enix's case, it seems that they're competing with Capcom for the position of worst company in Japan, just as EA nabbed two of those in America.


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## drgnslayers (Aug 28, 2014)

Zero Dozer said:


> Still, why didn't HE show up himself to clarify the entire mess?
> 
> I know how you feel about it, because actually, Square Enix doesn't give a fuck to american fans ever since the 1990's. Front Mission, since its beginning, the entire Final Fantasy translation fiasco before the PSX era, geez, how did we get Bravely Default here?
> 
> ...


 
Still, I'm not appealed by Square Enix's newest games like Final Fantasy XIII. TBH, I've grown bored after FFX. I prefer old school RPGs like Chrono Trigger. I haven't gotten tired of playing this fantasic game and it was originally released on the SNES. Enix and Square were better when they were rivals. Enix's first Dragon Quest game was well received and Square, at that time (it was 1986), was about to be folded so they had a final fantasy, the first Final Fantasy game. It sold well and the rest is history.

It's true, however, that Enix never released Dragon Quest V and VI in NA on the SNES (both were released on DS many years later) and Square never released Final Fantasy II and III on the NES (FFII was released on the PSX, PSP and GBA while FFIII was released on PSN and DS). Final Fantasy V was planned to be released in NA in 1994 but Squaresoft prefered to release FF VI, who was released in Japan sooner that year and so, FFV was finally released in NA on PSX in 1999.

I did hear about Capcom scrapping the Mega Man Legends 3 project altogether and cancelling Mega Man Anniversary Collection of their GB games on GBA


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## Black-Ice (Aug 28, 2014)

drgnslayers said:


> Still, I'm not appealed by Square Enix's newest games like Final Fantasy XIII. TBH, I've grown bored after FFX. I prefer old school RPGs like Chrono Trigger.


 
Said everyone on the internet everywhere


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## DantesInferno13 (Sep 4, 2014)

I did my own research over the past week on the matter, and I have to say that Square-Enix f*cked up big time:

Talked to Sky who, having no hard feelings against SE, refused to give further information saying that,  "it could cause a very damaging image to SE".
Then talked to the Spanish translation team. They seem to be well aware of the situation, and told me everything that happened, as well as their opinion.

Talked to Sky again, I quote:



> while I certainly wouldn't like to confirm that, I gotta say it reflects the truth and a valid point of view IMO



My two cents:
The low disrespectful, insulting ways SE treated Sky with is incredibly outrageous. I feel so disappointed I will be selling all my SE games right away.
Following the team's wishes, I won't be posting it all, but I'm sure the truth will eventually come out.

Stay classy Square Enix.


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## pokefloote (Sep 4, 2014)

DantesInferno13 said:


> I feel so disappointed I will be selling all my SE games right away.


 
Poor SE is going to feel that.

???


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## DantesInferno13 (Sep 4, 2014)

pokefloote said:


> Poor SE is going to feel that.
> 
> ???



What? No. I did it because I don't want games done by a sh*ty company on my collection. Likewise, I'm not buying SE games again, not because I want them to feel anything, but because i don't support them anymore.


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## Zero Dozer (Sep 5, 2014)

DantesInferno13 said:


> I did my own research over the past week on the matter, and I have to say that Square-Enix f*cked up big time:
> 
> Talked to Sky who, having no hard feelings against SE, refused to give further information saying that, "it could cause a very damaging image to SE".
> Then talked to the Spanish translation team. They seem to be well aware of the situation, and told me everything that happened, as well as their opinion.
> ...


 
Okay, so because Square Enix is going to be tarnished should the truth come out (Actually they ALREADY ARE tarnished, by some other episodes), Sky'll let himself get tarnished. Is that it?

I feel that there is way more to this than it meets the eye.


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## DantesInferno13 (Sep 6, 2014)

And you're right. This was posted on some forums by people from the Spanish translation team. It confirms the information I was told last week:

http://www.elotrolado.net/viewtopic.php?p=1736832737

It seems is the same guy who leaked Sky's tools. Assuming their work was leaked too, this could mean the end of the Spanish project; but could open a door to polish the English translation by the fan base themselves.


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## BUSy67 (Sep 7, 2014)

DantesInferno13 said:


> And you're right. This was posted on some forums by people from the Spanish translation team. It confirms the information I was told last week:
> 
> http://www.elotrolado.net/viewtopic.php?p=1736832737
> 
> It seems is the same guy who leaked Sky's tools. Assuming their work was leaked too, this could mean the end of the Spanish project; but could open a door to polish the English translation by the fan base themselves.


 


It appears someone other than myself has setup an account with the same exact username that I use on this site on the forum this person linked to. I did ask for help finding the "truth" behind the Type-0 Fan Translation mess out in a previous post, but this goes too far. I would never swear to a company regardless of my position or legal stance. Using obscene language isn’t something I do.


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## Lumstar (Sep 7, 2014)

DantesInferno13 said:


> I did my own research over the past week on the matter, and I have to say that Square-Enix f*cked up big time:
> 
> Talked to Sky who, having no hard feelings against SE, refused to give further information saying that, "it could cause a very damaging image to SE".
> Then talked to the Spanish translation team. They seem to be well aware of the situation, and told me everything that happened, as well as their opinion.
> ...


 
It's not like there was a "right" way. Failing to protect their IP would've had different consequences.


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## Zero Dozer (Nov 11, 2014)

Sorry for going golden shovel here, but now that Sky FINALLY showed his face here again, he could explain his side of the story, no?


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## LoyalZero1 (Nov 12, 2014)

I would just let it die, man. Poor guy. He's probably being scarce for a reason. I think about him and the team every time I see anything having to do with Type-0. Can't help it.


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## Zero Dozer (Nov 13, 2014)

Look, I'm not the kind of guy to let loose ends around.

I feel full sympathy for the team members of this translation. As for Sky, I just feel that he owes his version of the story.

I'm not trying to villanize him or the sorts, it's just that I don't like the way this story is half-told.


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## AdanK85 (Nov 13, 2014)

He's likely not allowed to reveal anything.

Even if you do get the story, doesn't make any difference now. Some team members decided to resign from translation scene for good. Some feel like taking a year rest after those work we did. 
We are affected mentally to a certain extent. It's been a good ride while it last.


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## cracker (Nov 13, 2014)

He probably sought legal council that told him to notdiscuss it at all online because Squenix could use it against him if they file a suit or try a criminal approach against him.


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## CathyRina (Nov 13, 2014)

Or maybe there just isn't any other side of the story. Maybe he really just fucked up.


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## Zero Dozer (Nov 13, 2014)

AdanK85 said:


> He's likely not allowed to reveal anything.
> 
> Even if you do get the story, doesn't make any difference now. Some team members decided to resign from translation scene for good. Some feel like taking a year rest after those work we did.
> We are affected mentally to a certain extent. It's been a good ride while it last.


 
It's not like I want work to be resumed by the team by this height of the championship. But I think I get what you mean. This last mid-year was a very strenuous and stressing one for everyone involved with the translation.

Maybe I should pipe down about that for the moment. Also, you're right on this: The translation was a good ride while it lasted.


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