# Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe assassinated



## chrisrlink (Jul 8, 2022)

during a televised speech today in Nara prefecture (south of Kyoto and West of Osaka) the former Prime minister of Japans Parlament, Shinzo Abe was assassinated despite strict gun laws in Japan the suspect a 41 yr old unemployed man built a hand made ghost gun and also was arrested shortly after the incident he sited Hatred for a group Abe supported (unconfirmed) Abe stepped down as PM a year ago he was 67

https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/shinzo-abe-japan-pm-collapses-nara-07-08-22-intl-hnk/index.html


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## Dark_Phoras (Jul 8, 2022)

"Despite strict gun laws"

Like it has anything to do with this case. Americans always spin to make it about themselves, or to specify an event according to their own circumstances, even if it happened on the opposite side of the world.

"Despite strict dietary regulations in schools"

"Despite strict car restrictions in metropolitan centers"


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## Glyptofane (Jul 8, 2022)

What a strange thing to come out of Japan of all places. I'm curious about more details regarding the motive.


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## lokomelo (Jul 8, 2022)

A Japanese citizen killed a very known Japanese politician motivated by Japanese matters, but I bet this thread will become an USA domestic discussion very very soon.


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## chrisrlink (Jul 8, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> What a strange thing to come out of Japan of all places. I'm curious about more details regarding the motive.


*he (the suspect) cited Hatred for a group Abe supported (unconfirmed) *I ALREADY SAID WHY IT'S IN THE ARTICLE ITSELF I LINKED


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## Xzi (Jul 8, 2022)

I'm sure I disagreed with any number of his political views, but this is just senseless and tragic nonetheless.  The hatred must have run deep to go after him even following retirement.  RIP.



Dark_Phoras said:


> "Despite strict gun laws"
> 
> Like it has anything to do with this case. Americans always spin to make it about themselves.


Uhh...it is pretty relevant given that he was shot with a gun, and specifically a homemade one.  I seriously doubt chris was trying to give the US a pass on our lax gun control with that statement.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> "Despite strict gun laws"
> 
> Like it has anything to do with this case.


Of course it has something to do with the case.

Despite strict gun laws, the number of gun deaths per capita in japan is lower than the USA.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime



Xzi said:


> I seriously doubt chris was trying to give the US a pass on our lax gun control with that statement.


I don't.


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## Dark_Phoras (Jul 8, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Uhh...it is pretty relevant given that he was shot with a gun, and specifically a homemade one.  I seriously doubt chris was trying to give the US a pass on our lax gun control with that statement.



The legislation on weapon access is irrelevant in a news context, particularly such a short news. Are we also discussing transport legislation, because he had to get there somehow.



smf said:


> Of course it has something to do with the case.
> 
> Despite strict gun laws, the number of gun deaths per capita in japan is lower than the USA.
> 
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/United-States/Crime



@lokomelo it took 24 minutes for someone to make it into a discussion about a US domestic issue.


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## chrisrlink (Jul 8, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> "Despite strict gun laws"
> 
> Like it has anything to do with this case. Americans always spin to make it about themselves, or to specify an event according to their own circumstances, even if it happened on the opposite side of the world.
> 
> ...


yes i showed the failure in strict gun laws (you can still own a gun in Japan still though regulations are tighter and the homicide rate by firearms is still a small fraction of what the US is, background checks are heavily detailed for gun ownership in Japan i'm sure any ties to the Yakuza or any other gang  even by other family members is a denial of gun ownership)


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## Dark_Phoras (Jul 8, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> yes i showed the failure in strict gun laws



Why?


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## chrisrlink (Jul 8, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm sure I disagreed with any number of his political views, but this is just senseless and tragic nonetheless.  The hatred must have run deep to go after him even following retirement.  RIP.
> 
> 
> Uhh...it is pretty relevant given that he was shot with a gun, and specifically a homemade one.  I seriously doubt chris was trying to give the US a pass on our lax gun control with that statement.


 curious on what political views you didn't like about him?

this also shows a failure in Japans security detail for former political figures it's no where near as good as the US's who invades privacy as a means of protection


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## Glyptofane (Jul 8, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> *he (the suspect) cited Hatred for a group Abe supported (unconfirmed) *I ALREADY SAID WHY IT'S IN THE ARTICLE ITSELF I LINKED


Yes, but it's an unidentified group which is also unconfirmed, so it basically means nothing.


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## Xzi (Jul 8, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> curious on what political views you didn't like about him?


AFAIK he was generally conservative, corporate friendly, pro-life and anti-weed.  I doubt the current PM's stances are much different though, and it's hard to judge an Eastern culture through a Western lens.  Unless they start going full fash like Russia, anyway.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> yes i showed the failure in strict gun laws (you can still own a gun in Japan still though regulations are tighter and the homicide rate by firearms is still a small fraction of what the US is, background checks are heavily detailed for gun ownership in Japan i'm sure any ties to the Yakuza or any other gang  even by other family members is a denial of gun ownership)


How is that a failure? It sounds like a success?

string guns laws = low homicide rate.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

I just dont UNDERSTAND, i've tried to wrap my brain around this and can't, they tv tells me if guns go away no one will get shot, japan took away all the guns, and someone really important got shot.


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## linuxares (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> I just dont UNDERSTAND, i've tried to wrap my brain around this and can't, they tv tells me if guns go away no one will get shot, japan took away all the guns, and someone really important got shot.


Check out his gun. It's like something out of Fallout


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## Xzi (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> I just dont UNDERSTAND, i've tried to wrap my brain around this and can't, they tv tells me if guns go away no one will get shot, japan took away all the guns, and someone really important got shot.


Almost like this will be one of (at most) ten shootings in Japan this year, while the US sees more than that in a weekend.  There's a tradeoff to be made between the safety of public figures and the safety of the general public, certainly.  Abe's security team clearly wasn't prepared to deal with a shooter.


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## LinkmstrYT (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> I just dont UNDERSTAND, i've tried to wrap my brain around this and can't, they tv tells me if guns go away no one will get shot, japan took away all the guns, and someone really important got shot.


I don't know what you're trying to imply here, but TV news networks aren't the smartest people in the bunch. Anyone with an actual brain knows that if you take away easy access to guns, the rate of shootings and deaths would massively go down, but not completely down to zero since there are folks that are "smart" enough to go around loopholes and get them illegally or make their own (but that's still not close to as often as people easily walking into a store and buy a gun in the US).

In Japan, people can still get "guns", but they have to go through a very heavy multi-step procedural certification to even own/use one. However, the shooter in this case used a homemade gun if you look at actual footage and screenshots and it's not simple to make a gun and the bullets needed, so, again, the rate of shootings and such are still a lot lower than the amount of shootings the US gets.

Plus, this doesn't happen as often as you may think compared to how much shootings happens in the US.


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## XDel (Jul 8, 2022)

Here is footage of the event.  

Video Footage


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## chrisrlink (Jul 8, 2022)

Xzi said:


> AFAIK he was generally conservative, corporate friendly, pro-life and anti-weed.  I doubt the current PM's stances are much different though, and it's hard to judge an Eastern culture through a Western lens.  Unless they start going full fash like Russia, anyway.


well sounds very like the USA right now minus the strict gun laws


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

LinkmstrYT said:


> I don't know what you're trying to imply here, but TV news networks aren't the smartest people in the bunch. Anyone with an actual brain knows that if you take away easy access to guns, the rate of shootings and deaths would massively go down, but not completely down to zero since there are folks that are "smart" enough to go around loopholes and get them illegally or make their own (but that's still not close to as often as people easily walking into a store and buy a gun in the US).
> 
> In Japan, people can still get "guns", but they have to go through a very heavy multi-step procedural certification to even own/use one. However, the shooter in this case used a homemade gun if you look at actual footage and screenshots and it's not simple to make a gun and the bullets needed, so, again, the rate of shootings and such are still a lot lower than the amount of shootings the US gets.
> 
> Plus, this doesn't happen as often as you may think compared to how much shootings happens in the US.



but.. those points dont make sense. the murder rate would actually skyrocket and in fact has in countries like, mexico or el Salvador ( which is number 1 in shootings btw) where citizens can't own guns. Also im pretty sure we are around 18th overall in the world for mass shootings.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Check out his gun. It's like something out of Fallout



still fired!



Xzi said:


> Almost like this will be one of (at most) ten shootings in Japan this year, while the US sees more than that in a weekend.  There's a tradeoff to be made between the safety of public figures and the safety of the general public, certainly.  Abe's security team clearly wasn't prepared to deal with a shooter.



well that trade off doesn't seem to be working.


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## ut2k4master (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well that trade off doesn't seem to be working.


so youd rather have thousands of people killed a year than <10? i dont understand you... seems like you just want to derail this thread


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

ut2k4master said:


> so youd rather have thousands of people killed a year than <10? i dont understand you... seems like you just want to derails this thread



no i don't appreciate anyone dying but its like the other person said, its about the trade off. on average about 18K people a year die of gun death, where as over 1 mil are saved in defensive shootings, unless, you'd rather they die?


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## Xzi (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well that trade off doesn't seem to be working.


In what sense is it "not working?"  There were over 45,000 gun deaths in the US last year, why is any one of their lives worth less than Shinzo Abe's?  Like I already said, including Abe, there will be at most 10 gun deaths in Japan this year.  The stats are what they are, don't make the man's death political.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

Xzi said:


> In what sense is it "not working?"  There were over 45,000 gun deaths in the US last year, why is any one of their lives worth less than Shinzo Abe's?  Like I already said, including Abe, there will be at most 10 gun deaths in Japan this year.  The stats are what they are, don't make the man's death political.



why not, your guy already did, i didnt say they are, you did, the point is, would you prefer the numbers even out, so the 45k more die because they can't defend themselves?


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## LinkmstrYT (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> but.. those points dont make sense. the murder rate would actually skyrocket and in fact has in countries like, mexico or el Salvador ( which is number 1 in shootings btw) where citizens can't own guns. Also im pretty sure we are around 18th overall in the world for mass shootings.


Many of the shootings in Mexico and El Salvador are usually from gang/cartel wars. That's completely different from public mass shootings. Actual public mass shootings in those places are still much lower and less often compared to in the US. You don't hear often about Mexico or El Salvador with mass shootings for a reason.

Sure, the crime rate in Mexico/El Savador is much higher, but the rate of public mass shootings, gun crimes/violence, and normal people's deaths caused by firearms are still much lower than what the US currently has.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> I just dont UNDERSTAND, i've tried to wrap my brain around this and can't, they tv tells me if guns go away no one will get shot, japan took away all the guns, and someone really important got shot.


No, the tv tells you if guns go away FEWER people will get shot.

Japan took away all the guns, fewer people got shot.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> No, the tv tells you if guns go away FEWER people will get shot.
> 
> Japan took away all the guns, fewer people got shot.



alot got stabbed though, and yes thats true, but they are lying to you.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> no i don't appreciate anyone dying but its like the other person said, its about the trade off. on average about 18K people a year die of gun death, where as over 1 mil are saved in defensive shootings, unless, you'd rather they die?


No, if nobody had guns then the "over 1 million" wouldn't even have seen a gun.
The death figures would drop considerably.


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## XDel (Jul 8, 2022)

The problem with taking away people's gun is that the government will be sure to keep some of their own. Also that does not prevent a person for killing someone via another means, nor does it prevent them from fashioning a gun them selves, such as a pop gun. And if it ain't that, then there is always a black market to get your guns from, like they do now, as criminals are not known to wait through the process of getting a gun legally, and having it tied to their name. 

Besides, absolute morons are allowed to drive, and with their cell phones in hand to boot. This has only increased the number of auto accidents and deaths, but we can still buy cars and phones. As a matter of fact the phones are bad for you too, just read the warning policy that comes with them! You are not really supposed to keep them anywhere near your body, let alone your head.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

XDel said:


> The problem with taking away people's gun is that the government will be sure to keep some of their own. Also that does not prevent a person for killing someone via another means, nor does it prevent them from fashioning a gun them selves, such as a pop gun. And if it ain't that, then there is always a black market to get your guns from, like they do now, as criminals are not known to wait through the process of getting a gun legally, and having it tied to their name.


The question is, do you want more death and have guns just in case your conspiracy theory about the government is true. Or less death?

How much is your conspiracy worth to you in lives?


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> No, if nobody had guns then the "over 1 million" wouldn't even have seen a gun.
> The death figures would drop considerably.



thats not true actually, the 1 million are defensive gun uses for law abiding citizens, if they take the guns away to appease your feelings, they can't defend themselves, but you'd prefer #criminallivesmatter.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> thats not true actually, the 1 million are defensive gun uses for law abiding citizens, if they take the guns away to appease your feelings, they can't defend themselves, but you'd prefer #criminallivesmatter.


The only time you need a gun to defend yourself, is if someone else has a gun.

Unless your idea of a good time is using some idiot as target practice (which I think is exactly what is going on).

Gun ownership increases crime.

Mexico is a disingenuous argument. The corruption there means gangs operate quite easily. Owning a gun wouldn't help defend yourself against a cartel.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> The only time you need a gun to defend yourself, is if someone else has a gun.
> 
> Unless your idea of a good time is using some idiot as target practice (which I think is exactly what is going on).
> 
> Gun ownership increases crime.



illegal* fixed it for you.


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## Glyptofane (Jul 8, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Check out his gun. It's like something out of Fallout


The resourcefulness is rather impressive setting aside how one may feel about the incident itself.


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## LinkmstrYT (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> alot got stabbed though, and yes thats true, but they are lying to you.


More folks have better chances to survive against a knife wielding maniac than a gun wielding maniac.

Anyone can cause a murder with any sort of item they want to use, but the subject of the matter is that actual shootings in Japan are very rare and don't happen as much. Stop trying to bring in other ways that causes murder when we're discussing about the lack of shootings in Japan in general. Stabbings =/= Shootings

It's already a proven point that with proper gun regulations and enforcing them actually heavily decreases the amount of mass shootings and such.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

LinkmstrYT said:


> More folks have better chances to survive against a knife wielding maniac than a gun wielding maniac.
> 
> Anyone can cause a murder with any sort of item they want to use, but the subject of the matter is that actual shootings in Japan are very rare and don't happen as much. Stop trying to bring in other ways that causes murder when we're discussing about the lack of shootings in Japan in general. Stabbings =/= Shootings
> 
> It's already a proven point that with proper gun regulations and enforcing them actually heavily decreases the amount of mass shootings and such.



really? because the most amount of mass shootings this year occurred in california and they are the most strict in the nation.

edit: are you willing to hereby officially confirm, endorse and support the notion that you would rather people get stabbed than defend themselves?


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## XDel (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> The question is, do you want more death and have guns just in case your conspiracy theory about the government is true. Or less death?
> 
> How much is your conspiracy worth to you in lives?


Given the George Floyd Riots, the recent 4th of July shootings, etc. I think that if we did implement new gun laws, that it should just be to keep them out of the hands of lefties, then I can assure you, gun related deaths will drop substantially.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> illegal* fixed it for you.


Fixed what for me?

You need to explain your delusional thinking.


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## smf (Jul 8, 2022)

XDel said:


> Given the George Floyd Riots, the recent 4th of July shootings, etc. I think that if we did implement new gun laws, that it should just be to keep them out of the hands of lefties, then I can assure you, gun related deaths will drop substantially.


I think everyone should be allowed to buy a gun, but anyone with a gun can shoot someone who owns a gun.

We could set up a locator app.

That will fix the problem.


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## lolcatzuru (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> Fixed what for me?
> 
> You need to explain your delusional thinking.



well illegal gun ownership increases crime, legal gun ownership really doesnt. do you have a source on me being delusional? everything ive said is backed up by fact. we arent even close to the top country in the world for shootings, and the top ones are areas where guns are banned for citizens, what leg are you trying to stand on here? look im sorry, brandon and koala harris lied to you, get over it.


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## XDel (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> I think everyone should be allowed to buy a gun, but anyone with a gun can shoot someone who owns a gun.
> 
> We could set up a locator app.
> 
> That will fix the problem.


Well digital tracking is already a thing and day by day they are making the technology smaller and safer so that it can reside within our bodies. So that would be good, personal privacy is just a threat anyhow! Also, they can also brain scan people before they buy a gun, to make sure they are not a lefty!


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## pustal (Jul 8, 2022)

If anyone cares for some geopolitical context:


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## LinkmstrYT (Jul 8, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> really? because the most amount of mass shootings this year occurred in california and they are the most strict in the nation.


You have to take into account how many people are living in California compared to many other states. The actual firearm death* rate* is still far fewer in California than most other states in the US.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm


lolcatzuru said:


> edit: are you willing to hereby officially confirm, endorse and support the notion that you would rather people get stabbed than defend themselves?


Since when did I ever say that I would rather let people get stabbed? I'd rather not have anyone get shot or stabbed at all. 

All I said that people have better chances of surviving against a knife wielding maniac. Since people can react better if they see someone holding a knife from a distance (because the knife wielder needs to get closer to stab, which takes time). There's a lot less time for someone to react properly against someone with a gun since a gun has far more range than a knife and less time to pull the trigger than to run up and stab.


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## XDel (Jul 8, 2022)

smf said:


> Great, so if it could also track whether you were holding a gun then other gun owners could have an AR headset and solve all your problems.


Totally, I'm all in for giving up my liberties. Control me through fear any day!


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## lokomelo (Jul 8, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> A Japanese citizen killed a very known Japanese politician motivated by Japanese matters, but I bet this thread will become an USA domestic discussion very very soon.


quoting myself now, because it totally already happened.

There is a question that remains untouched tho. The guy died on a metro station, so why the metro station door were not locked? It was a door problem, not a Japanese second amendment problem. Also, when Douglas MacArthur were ruling Japan we had exactly zero Shinzo Abe killings in or near Japanese stations, it is not an opinion, it is a fact!!! Come on guys, think on what the Japanese pioneers, the founders of that free nation that Japan always have been, would say about that today?


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## Kurt91 (Jul 8, 2022)




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## AsPika2219 (Jul 8, 2022)

RIP.... Shinzo Abe.... the best former PM ever....


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## Viri (Jul 8, 2022)

Fun fact, Japan has a huge culture on modelguns and BB guns. The guns look super real, to the point where it's hard to tell it's not a real gun. The fun fact is, that those "guns" would be illegal in the US.


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## sarkwalvein (Jul 8, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> A Japanese citizen killed a very known Japanese politician motivated by Japanese matters, but I bet this thread will become an USA domestic discussion very very soon.


Well you know, for Americans everything needs to revolve around America. Even when it doesn't.


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## Viri (Jul 9, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> Well you know, for Americans everything needs to revolve around America. Even when it doesn't.


If I was Japanese, that would probably annoy the hell out of me. But hey, this is a mostly American site. I'm sure there are tons of Japanese message boards that don't devolve into talking about America, when something has nothing to do with America.


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## sarkwalvein (Jul 9, 2022)

Viri said:


> If I was Japanese, that would probably annoy the hell out of me. But hey, this is a mostly American site. I'm sure there are tons of Japanese message boards that don't devolve into talking about America, when something has nothing to do with America.


Well, I would say it's mostly a western site, not just American. You know the site has Italian roots.

Anyway, I'm not American and at least to me the tendency to make everything about America is very tiring.


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## Dark_Phoras (Jul 9, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> Well, I would say it's mostly a western site, not just American. You know the site has Italian roots.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not American and at least to me the tendency to make everything about America is very tiring.



Discourse is so dominated by americans and their american affairs, that people in other countries protest for abortion and black people when it's not an issue in their countries, and there are more pressing local matters that get ignored.


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## Kurt91 (Jul 9, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> i spot a russian troll


Greek, actually. I've heard a bit more about it. The original news outlet was a Greek news channel called ANT1 (a pun, since 1 is pronounced "ena", so the channel is pronounced "antenna") They originally posted Kojima's pictures, saying "The shooter looked remarkably like this guy!"

Then other groups saw the pictures, a bad Google Translate interpretation, and took it as "Kojima did it!" and started spreading the rumor from there, until now some people genuinely think Kojima had something to do with it.


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## The Catboy (Jul 9, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> A Japanese citizen killed a very known Japanese politician motivated by Japanese matters, but I bet this thread will become an USA domestic discussion very very soon.


Americans aren't aware that there's more to the world than America.


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## lokomelo (Jul 9, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Americans aren't aware that there's more to the world than America.


This is true, at least for internet Americans. No surprises there as they aren't aware that there's Mexicans, vegans, gays, Asians, Africans or any other minorities either, they just remember when they see, usually they feel those moments unpleasant.

I've been to USA, long long ago, and in person they're awesome. I really mean it. I don't know if just internet people are the question, or if it is the gaming scene, or things changed a lot since I visited USA.


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## Creamu (Jul 9, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> This is true, at least for internet Americans. No surprises there as they aren't aware that there's Mexicans, vegans, gays, Asians, Africans or any other minorities either, they just remember when they see, usually they feel those moments unpleasant.
> 
> I've been to USA, long long ago, and in person they're awesome. I really mean it. I don't know if just internet people are the question, or if it is the gaming scene, or things changed a lot since I visited USA.


There is degeneration on a physical, spirital and cultural level all across the world. USA is taking the lead though. Decadence breeds stupidity.

The majority of americans have no clue what's going on in their country and are easily diverted to meaningless (in the grans scheme) issues.


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## ZeroFX (Jul 9, 2022)

Very sad, i hope he's resting in peace. His politics were really pro japan, and its culture.


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## BitMasterPlus (Jul 9, 2022)

Someone to explain my feelings and position better than I can.


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## tabzer (Jul 9, 2022)

Kurt91 said:


> Greek, actually. I've heard a bit more about it. The original news outlet was a Greek news channel called ANT1 (a pun, since 1 is pronounced "ena", so the channel is pronounced "antenna") They originally posted Kojima's pictures, saying "The shooter looked remarkably like this guy!"
> 
> Then other groups saw the pictures, a bad Google Translate interpretation, and took it as "Kojima did it!" and started spreading the rumor from there, until now some people genuinely think Kojima had something to do with it.



Everyone looks like Kojima.

It started as a 4chan prank, and ANT1 fell for it.

https://webtimes.uk/news-outlets-mistakenly-identify-abe-assassin-as-hideo-kojima/


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## Minox (Jul 16, 2022)

This is not the topic for discussing American gun laws.
Should you want to do so, please go discuss it in another topic.


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## Coto (Jul 20, 2022)

Minox said:


> This is not the topic for discussing American gun laws.
> Should you want to do so, please go discuss it in another topic.


It's definitely connected, and it's *not* offtopic, because The political party this ex PM was working with, WEF was pushing the topic related to posts you deleted


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