# Apple announces iPad Air



## T-hug (Oct 22, 2013)

*Apple have just announced the latest device in the iPad range, the fifth generation iPad Air:*



> All-new design
> iPad Air weighs just one pound, and it’s 20 percent thinner. But even though it’s extremely light, it has a refined aluminum unibody enclosure that feels solid and durable in your hand.


 


> 9.7-inch Retina display
> Photos and videos look incredibly detailed and text is razor sharp on the stunning Retina display, which features over 3.1 million pixels — a million more than an HDTV.


 


> A7 chip
> The powerful and power-efficient A7 chip with 64-bit architecture makes everything remarkably responsive — while still delivering up to 10 hours of battery life.


 
Source


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## frogboy (Oct 22, 2013)

Another excellent entry to the we-tailor-to-the-millionaires line of devices.


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## Sicklyboy (Oct 22, 2013)

It... looks like a big iPad Mini.


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## Langin (Oct 22, 2013)

Pretty interested in it, Apple doesn't show any interesting innovations though which is a deal breaker.


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## PityOnU (Oct 22, 2013)

frogboy said:


> Another excellent entry to the we-tailor-to-the-millionaires line of devices.


 
It's... $500?

I don't think you need to be a millionare to afford that.


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## loco365 (Oct 22, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> It's... $500?
> 
> I don't think you need to be a millionare to afford that.


 
What if you have 15 other Apple devices?

To me, it's just a slightly improved iPad 3. No big deal. Try innovation like Samsung did (AKA Flexible screens) then get back to me.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2013)

Langin said:


> Pretty interested in it, Apple doesn't show any interesting innovations though which is a deal breaker.


 
I'm not entirely sure how they're supposed to innovate when it comes to a flat slab of plastic with a screen attached to it. A tablet is a tablet, right now it's a specs and OS war more than anything.


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## filfat (Oct 22, 2013)

I see iPad everywhere but not about the Surface 2 Launch, good grief that is more exiting then some Apple product with underpowered hardware...


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 22, 2013)

OMG GUYS OMG ITS APPLE PRODUCT OMG I MUST HAVE OGMGOMOGMOGOMGMOGOMGMO

well what do you know, another apple device that will completely forgot about next october because the brand new iPad Air Pro will be released then. Way to go apple, so innovative. Releasing the exact same products year after year. how do you do it guys? how do you keep customers releasing awful overpriced products that were literally the same thing last edition. please im dying to know how do you do it apple?




PityOnU said:


> It's... $500?
> 
> 
> I don't think you need to be a millionare to afford that.


 
lets see... a $500 apple ipad (thats the same as last release, just a 'omg so amazing' new look) or a $400 Nexus 10. ipad or nexus ipad or nexus ipad or nexus hmmmmmm I wonder if I should go with the awful apple product? I sure made an awful decision last time I did that. Apple is a joke


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## loco365 (Oct 22, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> well what do you know, another apple device that will completely forgot about next october because the brand new iPad Air Pro will be released then. Way to go apple, so innovative. Releasing the exact same products year after year. how do you do it guys? how do you keep customers releasing awful overpriced products that were literally the same thing last edition. please im dying to know how do you do it apple?


 
My thoughts exactly. I should have the right to slap anyone that says Apple is better than anything. At least Microsoft still supports Vista, their worst OS yet.


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## DinohScene (Oct 22, 2013)

Yay, another barely improved ipad!


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## Langin (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not entirely sure how they're supposed to innovate when it comes to a flat slab of plastic with a screen attached to it. A tablet is a tablet, right now it's a specs and OS war more than anything.


 

Of course they can innovate, they can make NEW things. Like bending the screens for example that you get a book effect for real or a new kind of touch screen. 

There's a reason it's called innovation Foxi, you need to find brand new things(or steal them, whatever you prefer) and use them in your product. There are so many things people did love to see in their iPads. My mom'd love to see a build in stylus(A bit like the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 for example) because styluses can be really useful. It's no real innovation but at least they are trying. Thing is already light enough, old people can hold it, babies can so why make it even waaaay lighter then it was? Why not add that high quality stylus for all those people who want it?


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## DinohScene (Oct 22, 2013)

Team Fail said:


> At least Microsoft still supports Vista, their worst OS yet.


 
Win ME was worse then Vista tho.
Vista, if tweaked a lot, isn't all that bad.


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 22, 2013)

Team Fail said:


> My thoughts exactly. I should have the right to slap anyone that says Apple is better than anything. At least Microsoft still supports Vista, their worst OS yet.


 
I'm getting tired of this apple bullcrap. The iPod touch 4g was my last Apple product I'll ever buy. If for whatever reason I need to run osx (don't know why I ever would) theres always hackintosh, and hey its even cheaper to build a better machine and make it a hackintosh than buy an iMac

Can't wait for my nexus 5


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2013)

Langin said:


> Of course they can innovate, they can make NEW things. Like bending the screens for example that you get a book effect for real or a new kind of touch screen.
> 
> There's a reason it's called innovation Foxi, you need to find brand new things(or steal them, whatever you prefer) and use them in your product. There are so many things people did love to see in their iPads. My mom'd love to see a build in stylus(A bit like the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 for example) because styluses can be really useful. It's no real innovation but at least they are trying. Thing is already light enough, old people can hold it, babies can so why make it even waaaay lighter then it was? Why not add that high quality stylus for all those people who want it?


Uhm, yeah, that folding thing's been done already - Sony Xperia Tablet P? Mind you, that's not a foldable screen, but the end result is pretty much the same. As for the stylus, capacitive touchscreens aren't really friends with standard styluses, but I suppose they could bundle a capacitive screen compatible stylus with their device.

In any case, I suppose you're right, but I wouldn't call a _"folding tablet"_ a tablet anymore due to the differences in the form-factor and adding a stylus wouldn't really be _"innovation"_, rather just adding an additional accessory to the kit. I would also be careful with using the term _"innovation"_ with those two as both solutions already exist and have existed for a while.


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## pyromaniac123 (Oct 22, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> OMG GUYS OMG ITS APPLE PRODUCT OMG I MUST HAVE OGMGOMOGMOGOMGMOGOMGMO
> 
> well what do you know, another apple device that will completely forgot about next october because the brand new iPad Air Pro will be released then. Way to go apple, so innovative. Releasing the exact same products year after year. how do you do it guys? how do you keep customers releasing awful overpriced products that were literally the same thing last edition. *please im dying to know how do you do it apple?*
> 
> ...


 
Because people like shiny shiny things.


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 22, 2013)

pyromaniac123 said:


> Because people like shiny shiny things.


people who buy every apple product (like year after year) are one of two things: rich and ignorant or just ignorant


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## dragonblood9999 (Oct 22, 2013)

so if its $500 in America, then here in Portugal its about 500€.
just to let you guys know, where i live most people make between 500-600 euros a month.
so here you basically have to be a millionaire to buy one


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## Ryukouki (Oct 22, 2013)

Don't forget that OS X Mavericks is released today, along with new revisions on the original iPad (5th revision now?) and the Mac Pro (available December) and the Macbook Pros (which have all been moved to Retina lines starting at $1299 for a 13 inch).


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## Nightwish (Oct 22, 2013)

Isn't it the great advantage of choosing and developing for Apple products that there's few models? Yeah, 'bout that...
Isn't it the point of mobile development to be easy and inexpensive, which super-high resolutions work against?

Can I go knock some pundits heads now?


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## GameWinner (Oct 22, 2013)

Cancel your next gen preorders! There's a new iPad in town!


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## Gahars (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't care because tablets aren't really my thing, but I want to make a joke, so I'm going to say it's ass and call it the "iPad Derriere."

Wow, that looks like ass! More like the iPad Derriere, am I right?


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## Langin (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Uhm, yeah, that folding thing's been done already - Sony Xperia Tablet P? Mind you, that's not a foldable screen, but the end result is pretty much the same. As for the stylus, capacitive touchscreens aren't really friends with standard styluses, but I suppose they could bundle a capacitive screen compatible stylus with their device.
> 
> In any case, I suppose you're right, but I wouldn't call a _"folding tablet"_ a tablet anymore due to the differences in the form-factor and adding a stylus wouldn't really be _"innovation"_, rather just adding an additional accessory to the kit. I would also be careful with using the term _"innovation"_ with those two as both solutions already exist and have existed for a while.


 

It's true what you are saying, innovation is not the right word anymore. About the folding tablet, I didn't knew so forgive me please! But yeah apple should at least create something more 'creative' then a thinner tablet.


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## Lacius (Oct 22, 2013)

I already have a laptop.


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## Thanatos Telos (Oct 22, 2013)

Told my friends on the bus, and here is what they say:
N: They couldn't make it sound more gay?
T: Sounds stupid.
A: Is this some hipster thing?

Yeah, I find it easy to agree with them. Most apps haven't been optimized for the 64-bit CPU yet, so lots of crashes pop up.


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## pyromaniac123 (Oct 22, 2013)

Lacius said:


> I already have a laptop.


 
Good for you.


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## bowser (Oct 22, 2013)

It's called the iPad Air because only air heads will buy it


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## dragonblood9999 (Oct 22, 2013)

i would rather buy a laptop and turn it into a dual boot win7/mountain lion hackintosh for half the price of a mac pro (and probably with better specs)


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## mkdms14 (Oct 22, 2013)

You think they would at least double the ram.  It great that these devices are more powerful graphic wise but unless you increase the ram you are very limited on what you can do.


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## PityOnU (Oct 22, 2013)

Team Fail said:


> What if you have 15 other Apple devices?


 
$500x15 = $7500



3bbb7 said:


> lets see... a $500 apple ipad (thats the same as last release, just a 'omg so amazing' new look) or a $400 Nexus 10. ipad or nexus ipad or nexus ipad or nexus hmmmmmm I wonder if I should go with the awful apple product? I sure made an awful decision last time I did that. Apple is a joke


 
Well the Nexus 10 also has a plastic housing and weighs ~1.3 pounds.



I don't own any Apple products and never have, but the amount of cynicism here is too damn high.


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## raulpica (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh gawd people, seriously. Enough with the Apple hate. I understand that most of you in here can't afford one (I can't either, right now) so they love to hate on it... but it's just YET another iterative product.

Did anyone see the Galaxy Tab 3? Yes, it's pretty much the 2. Did anybody complain about it? Errr, no.

Has anyone seen the HTC One Max? Yes, it's an HTC One with a fingerprint sensor (STOLEN FROM APPLE!) slapped on it.

The Samsung Galaxy S4 was a piece of crap with no innovation at all in it (with even a borked little.BIG implementation in it) but I haven't seen ANYONE complain about that.

So, if you people are going to complain about Apple all the time, be coherent and make new threads for the competitors too. And don't forget to bash them, either.


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## Boy12 (Oct 22, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> It... looks like a big iPad Mini.


 
A stretched-out iPad Mini if you will.


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 22, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> $500x15 = $7500
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I'd much rather have a $400 heavier tablet that actually gets stuff done and lets me customize it how I want than a $500 tablet that is limited to everything, has an ugly UI


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 22, 2013)

raulpica said:


> Oh gawd people, seriously. Enough with the Apple hate. I understand that most of you in here can't afford one (I can't either, right now) so they love to hate on it... but it's just YET another iterative product.
> 
> Did anyone see the Galaxy Tab 3? Yes, it's pretty much the 2. Did anybody complain about it? Errr, no.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah but the galaxy tab 3 is $100-200 cheaper
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-tab/GT-P5210ZWYXAR


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## raulpica (Oct 22, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Yeah but the galaxy tab 3 is $100-200 cheaper
> http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-tab/GT-P5210ZWYXAR


But the iPad isn't made from crappy plastic.


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## Sicklyboy (Oct 22, 2013)

Boy12 said:


> A stretched-out iPad Mini if you will.


 
It's... the iPad Mini XL


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 22, 2013)

raulpica said:


> But the iPad isn't made from crappy plastic.


 
So a shiny backcover costs $100+? I'm sure it costs Apple ~$20 (or less) more to produce rather than choosing a crap backcover. apple is screwing everyone and they know it. Thats why they continue to release the exact same products and claim how new and improved they are.


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## Vipera (Oct 22, 2013)

I...I need to bend it.

I didn't feel this urge since the RAZR V3.


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## Boy12 (Oct 22, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> It's... the iPad Mini XL


 
Exactly!
You know, i'm not hatin' or something on Apple, but this is just... Trying to make money out of ANYTHING.


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## Phaanox (Oct 22, 2013)

I know that this is overused, but oh well...


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## Maxternal (Oct 22, 2013)

128GB w/3G ($1k) FTW


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## gamefan5 (Oct 22, 2013)

I own an Ipad Mini myself.
I also own Nexus 7. Both tablets are great imo.
Can't say I am interested in upgrading mine though.
The only reason I would upgrade it, is if it was a high RAM for a certain art application that I use.
But even then, I would only buy it if it was on sale or somethin.


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## snikerz (Oct 22, 2013)

APPLE IS BEST


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## Sakitoshi (Oct 22, 2013)

raulpica said:


> Has anyone seen the HTC One Max? Yes, it's an HTC One with a fingerprint sensor (*STOLEN FROM THE MOTOROLA ATRIX!*) slapped on it.


 
fixed that for you 

a new Apple device is that, a new Apple device, nothing to get excited about, doesn't have anything new or a groundbreaking feature, is like sports games, the only change is the number slapped at the end of the title.
it has better specs, yes, but the steps Apple do with their products are like baby crawls compared to other brands. that play in favor too, they can release much more mature software and the system in general is more responsive(iPhone 4S has 512MB RAM and runs very well IOS 7 while Android 4.0 require 1024MB RAM to run smoothly).


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## air2004 (Oct 22, 2013)

Last time I checked , the air in my pocket didn't way a pound


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## calmwaters (Oct 22, 2013)

Apple has become a money hungry company; anyone else think they're like Microsoft?


Foxi4 said:


> I'm not entirely sure how they're supposed to innovate when it comes to a flat slab of plastic with a screen attached to it. A tablet is a tablet, right now it's a specs and OS war more than anything.


 
Truer words were never spoken.


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## raulpica (Oct 22, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> So a shiny backcover costs $100+? I'm sure it costs Apple ~$20 (or less) more to produce rather than choosing a crap backcover. apple is screwing everyone and they know it. Thats why they continue to release the exact same products and claim how new and improved they are.


Did you know that the Apple iPad also has the HIGHEST SCREEN GRADE around? And that they have the best color accuracy, gamma, response and whateves?

Obviously not, since APPLE IS CRAP HURR DURR

Everyone should read Anandtech's tablets review. They compare Apple VS Android _ALL_ the time and trust me, Apple is almost always on the top of the charts in every SINGLE test.



Sakitoshi said:


> fixed that for you
> 
> a new Apple device is that, a new Apple device, nothing to get excited about, doesn't have anything new or a groundbreaking feature, is like sports games, the only change is the number slapped at the end of the title.
> it has better specs, yes, but the steps Apple do with their products are like baby crawls compared to other brands. that play in favor too, they can release much more mature software and the system in general is more responsive(iPhone 4S has 512MB RAM and runs very well IOS 7 while Android 4.0 require 1024MB RAM to run smoothly).


You mean just like people shouldn' t be excited about the Nexus 5, HTC One Max and whatever is coming around for the next 12 months from all the big players since NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has a groundbreaking feature?


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## Qtis (Oct 22, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> So a shiny backcover costs $100+? I'm sure it costs Apple ~$20 (or less) more to produce rather than choosing a crap backcover. apple is screwing everyone and they know it. Thats why they continue to release the exact same products and claim how new and improved they are.


 
Okay, stop the presses. I just heard that the PSX can play all of the PS4 games, since the PS4 is just basically an esthetic upgrade to the PSX! Just like the PS2 and PS3 have been so far!

While you may not see the value of an aluminum case, I for one can. My 2010 MacBook Pro is still up to pretty much everything I throw at it and it still feels better to hold compared to my Nexus 7 (2013), which is less than 2 months old. What does this prove? People have different preferences. Did I pay a lot for my MBP at the time? Sure as hell I did. I basically paid my year's salary at the time (had a summer job and studied for most of the year), but I haven't had any reason to upgrade since. At the same time, quite a few of my friends have needed to upgrade their laptops 2 or 3 times to be able to do the same things I can do with my laptop (most requirements are related to engineering/CAD software most people don't run on their own compures, but I digress). As a single investment it has been expensive, but I did manage to pay it off quite well.

As for the Android vs. iOS (vs. Windows Phones vs Blackberry 10, etc), comparing specs/hardware is pretty moot. RAM doesn't mean shizles unless your OS really needs a ton of it to operate. GHz of your processor doesn't mean jack if the rest of the hardware isn't compatible or take advantage of the specs. This is the reason why iOS devices match other devices in speed and other things (based on unbiased benchmark software).

ps. If someone wants to actually compare the new iOS devices to top Android devices, Ars Technica has a good review of them.


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## Deleted-236924 (Oct 22, 2013)

Weights only one pound?
Sounds pretty cool.


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## Sicklyboy (Oct 22, 2013)

Qtis - I can't say I like Apple products at all, but I will say that my girlfriend's '09 MBP _has_ stood up to quite a beating over time.  The battery is starting to go bad though, so I'll probably have to replace it for her soon.


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## Qtis (Oct 22, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> Qtis - I can't say I like Apple products at all, but I will say that my girlfriend's '09 MBP _has_ stood up to quite a beating over time. The battery is starting to go bad though, so I'll probably have to replace it for her soon.


 
Indeed. This is something I've come to notice for quite a few people at my university (of technology for someone interested). While most people don't prefer the price range, they do prefer the quality and stability of the OS X product range. Mobile phones and tablets are another matter (the older iPhones and iPad really miss out on quite a lot compared to the latest models), but the laptop range does quite well if you have even the slightest clue as to the reason you're buying a new laptop in the first place (I bought it purely as a powerhouse for CAD and of course OS X for everyday browsing on top of that. Nowadays I rarely even need Windows as I have a laptop for CAD from work..).

EDIT: As to the amount of beating my laptop suffers (i.e. work load), I'm at 791 cycles during 39 months. I've been working for 4 months every year and I've had a laptop from work for most of my needs during that time. So on average it's about 1 full charge per day for the last 3.5 years. And yes, I should change my battery


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 22, 2013)

ANOTHER slighty revised iPad? in other breaking and important news, I had spaghetti and meatballs for lunch

..so "Faster" means:....?


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## Fishaman P (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm calling bullshit.




> 9.7-inch Retina display
> Photos and videos look incredibly detailed and text is razor sharp on the stunning Retina display, which features over 3.1 million pixels — a million more than an HDTV.


That's 2048x1536. 4:3? I thought that went extinct 10 years ago.
Also, let's see some PPI measurements:

iPad Air ("Retina"): 264 ppi
iPhone 5S (Retina): 326 ppi
Samsung Galaxy S4: 441 ppi
Not remarkable at all.



> A7 chip
> The powerful and power-efficient A7 chip with *64-bit architecture* makes everything remarkably responsive — while still delivering up to 10 hours of battery life.


What. 64-bit is good for fast computing _when you need high precision_ - like biological simulations, video encoding, and emulating 64-bit+ systems at decent speed.
Otherwise, the 64-bit addressing really takes a bite out of the available RAM. The size of all pointers is doubled, unless the system is running in x32 mode¹, which should have been stated.

So, the cons involve using more RAM for nothing, and the pros are... emulating the Nintendo 64? Good luck finding an app for that without jailbreaking.

¹Yes, I mean x32, not x86. x32 is a "hybrid mode" that feeds the processor 64-bit words (native), but uses 32 bits for pointers. This has the effect of limiting RAM to 4GB, but that's not a problem on the iPad.


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## insidexdeath (Oct 22, 2013)

Lol so much Apple hate here.

Calm down people. It's simple if you don't like it don't buy it?


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## Deleted User (Oct 22, 2013)

well i still use my android tab and my moms ipad 2 is still alive and well xD only reason to buy it would be if my moms ipad broke


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## YayMii (Oct 23, 2013)

Fishaman P said:


> Also, let's see some PPI measurements:
> 
> iPad Air ("Retina"): 264 ppi
> iPhone 5S (Retina): 326 ppi
> ...


The definition for "retina desplay" (which is a marketing term BTW) is that you can't see the individual pixels from the recommended viewing distance. Not that it has to be a certain PPI.



Fishaman P said:


> What. 64-bit is good for fast computing _when you need high precision_ - like biological simulations, video encoding, and emulating 64-bit+ systems at decent speed.
> Otherwise, the 64-bit addressing really takes a bite out of the available RAM. The size of all pointers is doubled, unless the system is running in x32 mode¹, which should have been stated.
> 
> So, the cons involve using more RAM for nothing, and the pros are... emulating the Nintendo 64? Good luck finding an app for that without jailbreaking.
> ...


The iPad uses AArch64, not x86-64 nor x32 (not that it means anything). I still doubt that having 64-bit on mobile devices makes a difference at this point though (other than Apple being able to use it to draw in unsuspecting customers).


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## air2004 (Oct 23, 2013)

by increasing my stroke speed by one , I was able to go , 2 seconds quicker


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## 1ManClan (Oct 23, 2013)

F**king apple, I own the ipad 4 128gb but I just don't see any reason to upgrade, this thing cost me a fortune and no real benefit to upgrade.  I personally think apple needs to come out with a ps3 style controller for games like mc 3 & 4, nba 14, fifa 14, madden 14, etc.  This would be huge imoh.  They should also have the cod brand make a lighter version for the ipad.  Could u imagine if the wii u said they were going to be releasing the wii u air pro this year.  Its riduculous, and the ipad is more expensive then a wii u, ps4 & xbone!  Cmom apple do something new again like u use to!


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## Ryukouki (Oct 23, 2013)

Man, you guys are arguing like a bunch of children.  Why does it matter if someone chooses Apple?


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## calmwaters (Oct 23, 2013)

Ryukouki said:


> Man, you guys are arguing like a bunch of children.  Why does it matter if someone chooses Apple?


 
Welcome to the internet, where everyone fights about anything with everyone else. But it doesn't matter to me what you buy.


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## Ryukouki (Oct 23, 2013)

calmwaters said:


> Welcome to the internet, where everyone fights about anything with everyone else. But it doesn't matter to me what you buy.


 

I seriously don't care either. Hell, I'm the most unorthodox user. I have an Android phone, with a Macbook Pro and a Windows desktop. What the fuck.


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## Nujui (Oct 23, 2013)

Ryukouki said:


> I seriously don't care either. Hell, I'm the most unorthodox user. I have an Android phone, with a Macbook Pro and a Windows desktop. What the fuck.


Preferences clash and people argue, it's like any other discussion when someone is set in stone in whatever side they choose and just join the uninformed bandwagon of people who don't understand different views on other devices.

But anyway, I'm not a Apple fan myself, but I am curious about the A7 chip.


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## the_randomizer (Oct 23, 2013)

DinohScene said:


> Win ME was worse then Vista tho.
> Vista, if tweaked a lot, isn't all that bad.


 

Often called Windows Mistake Edition. Never used Vista and I'm glad I never did  Never used Apple products, never will, I have my opinions and I stand by it.


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## DinohScene (Oct 23, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Often called Windows Mistake Edition. Never used Vista and I'm glad I never did


 

ME, well I tried it, got a BSOD after installation and first boot.
Then reinstalled it again and got it working quite wel..

Neh, Win 2K all the way <3


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## the_randomizer (Oct 23, 2013)

DinohScene said:


> ME, well I tried it, got a BSOD after installation and first boot.
> Then reinstalled it again and got it working quite wel..
> 
> Neh, Win 2K all the way <3


 

98 SE was awesome, never used Win 2K, so far 7 is my fave, only two BSODs in the three years I used it


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## DinohScene (Oct 23, 2013)

98 SE was pretty sweet, 2K was a massive improvement over it and used it for a long time.
Win Xp was pretty okay after SP2
Win 7 is one of the better ones yes.


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## Sakitoshi (Oct 23, 2013)

raulpica said:


> You mean just like people shouldn' t be excited about the Nexus 5, HTC One Max and whatever is coming around for the next 12 months from all the big players since NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has a groundbreaking feature?


 
Exactly, they are excited because when something new comes out they see what they have and start seeing all the flaws only to make an excuse to buy the new one even if the only change is a different case color. but in one year the hardware is escalating rather quickly, so wait a year and see what new things are coming out doesn't sound like a bad plan, if you have the money of course.


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## Bladexdsl (Oct 23, 2013)

$500....appl$'s heads are in the clouds


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## PityOnU (Oct 23, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> I'd much rather have a $400 heavier tablet that actually gets stuff done and lets me customize it how I want than a $500 tablet that is limited to everything, has an ugly UI


 
You highlight a problem with tablets and phones: they are locked down with regards to what OS they are able to run.

If you were able to install Android on the iPad Air, would your opinion of the device change? WOuld it then be worth the extra $100?

To me, the hardware seems worth the extra cash.


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## UltraMew (Oct 23, 2013)

I like my iPad 2 better.


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## air2004 (Oct 23, 2013)

I just took a shower , so this is the new an improved me. I'm a little faster ( because of the lack of dirt ) and prettier looking ( because of the shower)


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## Sicklyboy (Oct 23, 2013)

air2004 said:


> I just took a shower , so this is the new an improved me. I'm a little faster ( because of the lack of dirt ) and prettier looking ( because of the shower)


 

Yeah, but you're ten years old.

Nobody wants the 2004, people want the Air 2014 

This is me trying to be funny.  I've lost it entirely, haven't I?


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## air2004 (Oct 23, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> Yeah, but you're ten years old.
> 
> Nobody wants the 2004, people want the Air 2014
> 
> This is me trying to be funny. I've lost it entirely, haven't I?


The shower is the update to the 04 model ... I'm a little faster now , and slimmer lmao


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## Sicklyboy (Oct 23, 2013)

air2004 said:


> The shower is the update to the 04 model ... I'm a little faster now , and slimmer lmao


 

You're the 2004S, or the 2004C?


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## air2004 (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm the 2004C , the S in the 2004S stands for sucker


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## tatripp (Oct 23, 2013)

I heard Leo Laporte say that 64 bit on tablets and phones is overkill and will drain the battery faster. It is unnecessary.


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## anthonyplep (Oct 23, 2013)

I have an iPad 4 and love it but have been using it less since I got an iPhone 5.  They both do the same things except my phone seems to do things faster, hence me using it less. I was looking forward to this to see if I'd want it eventually but eh, I'd rather wait for the next iPad release or even the next one after that.  Support for the 4 isn't going anywhere for a few more years.  I'd rather wait until the 64-bit architecture becomes more of a standard on the apps and has touch ID support and etc


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## The Milkman (Oct 23, 2013)

Wait... 64-Bit? Is this an ARM processor or some sort of lower tier x86 or what?

I mean, if were talking x86, no way it can be THAT thin right?


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## großerbaum (Oct 23, 2013)

not so big change, but also gut look.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 23, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not entirely sure how they're supposed to innovate when it comes to a flat slab of plastic with a screen attached to it. A tablet is a tablet, right now it's a specs and OS war more than anything.


 
Well, look at the Microsoft Surface line.  They show a lot of innovation.  The Surface has a built in kickstand and a really good keyboard cover, so you can prop it up in your lap, on the table, wherever. The surface pro 2 line is basically an ultrabook in tablet form that has an active digitizer, has battery life comprable to an iPad, and can run regular desktop applications.  You get a tablet with real PC guts for only a few hundred dollars more than an iPad.

Microsoft's partners have also had some really innovative tablet PC designs over the year. 

Apple basically refuses to do anything with its iPad line other than release the Jobs-approved giant iPod touch/iPhone tablet.  It is too bad too, because I bet a lot of Apple fanatics would buy a tablet version of the Macbook Air along similar lines to the Surface Pro.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 23, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Uhm, yeah, that folding thing's been done already - Sony Xperia Tablet P? Mind you, that's not a foldable screen, but the end result is pretty much the same. As for the stylus, capacitive touchscreens aren't really friends with standard styluses, but I suppose they could bundle a capacitive screen compatible stylus with their device.
> 
> In any case, I suppose you're right, but I wouldn't call a _"folding tablet"_ a tablet anymore due to the differences in the form-factor and adding a stylus wouldn't really be _"innovation"_, rather just adding an additional accessory to the kit. I would also be careful with using the term _"innovation"_ with those two as both solutions already exist and have existed for a while.


 
Windows Tablet PC's have shipped for a decade with "stylus's" and capacitive touchscreens. They use a WACOM active digitizer overlay. The Surface Pro  and Samsung Note tablets have one. Unlike a dummy stylus, you can put things like buttons and erasers on an active digitizer.


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## raulpica (Oct 23, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Wait... 64-Bit? Is this an ARM processor or some sort of lower tier x86 or what?
> 
> I mean, if were talking x86, no way it can be THAT thin right?


It's ARM. Anyway x86 is almost there, thanks to Intel's Bay Trail. Next year, or two years at most, x86 will pretty much have the same thermals (and more power) of ARM.


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## VMM (Oct 23, 2013)

I liked it. Thinner, lighter, better.
I see people talking about innovation but
I don't know what they were expecting,
Surely it could be better specs-wise, 
but is it really needed?
I see few apps that would have any benefit from 64 bit architecture and most only for jailbroken devices.

There is so much apple hate in this topic, If you don't like it, don't buy it.
If you preffer Android tablets, that's fine, but saying the product is shit means that
you either don't know what you're talking about or you're just a fanboy butthurt.


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## Fishaman P (Oct 23, 2013)

YayMii said:


> The definition for "retina desplay" (which is a marketing term BTW) is that you can't see the individual pixels from the recommended viewing distance. Not that it has to be a certain PPI.


Well, then the iPad Air is _definitely_ not Retina.



YayMii said:


> The iPad uses AArch64, not x86-64 nor x32 (not that it means anything). I still doubt that having 64-bit on mobile devices makes a difference at this point though (other than Apple being able to use it to draw in unsuspecting customers).


I'm aware; I was making an analogy.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> I liked it. Thinner, lighter, better.....
> _*but is it really needed?*_
> I see few apps that would have any benefit from 64 bit architecture and most only for jailbroken devices..


because Google just released a new revision of the Nexus 7 and Apple had to answer to it.
As we all know...Google in the past few months has definitely become a direct competitor to Apple's iPad, as Google taken quite a liking to Apple's marketing campaign (the few words spoken with douche coffeehouse music in the background)



1ManClan said:


> F**king apple, I own the ipad 4 128gb but I just don't see any reason to upgrade, this thing cost me a fortune and no real benefit to upgrade..../snip


 
my, my, my

Apple...getting involved with the video game industry huh? You obviously don't remember your history of video games.


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 23, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> You highlight a problem with tablets and phones: they are locked down with regards to what OS they are able to run.
> 
> If you were able to install Android on the iPad Air, would your opinion of the device change? WOuld it then be worth the extra $100?
> 
> To me, the hardware seems worth the extra cash.


 
Nah, and I mean the customization of the OS. iOS is locked to what Apple wants you to do. Android is locked to almost nothing. Stock provides limited customization but apps in the Play store can do almost whatever you want.



Qtis said:


> Okay, stop the presses. I just heard that the PSX can play all of the PS4 games, since the PS4 is just basically an esthetic upgrade to the PSX! Just like the PS2 and PS3 have been so far!
> 
> While you may not see the value of an aluminum case, I for one can. My 2010 MacBook Pro is still up to pretty much everything I throw at it and it still feels better to hold compared to my Nexus 7 (2013), which is less than 2 months old. What does this prove? People have different preferences. Did I pay a lot for my MBP at the time? Sure as hell I did. I basically paid my year's salary at the time (had a summer job and studied for most of the year), but I haven't had any reason to upgrade since. At the same time, quite a few of my friends have needed to upgrade their laptops 2 or 3 times to be able to do the same things I can do with my laptop (most requirements are related to engineering/CAD software most people don't run on their own compures, but I digress). As a single investment it has been expensive, but I did manage to pay it off quite well.
> 
> ...


 
I'm very sorry for you


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## YayMii (Oct 23, 2013)

Fishaman P said:


> Well, then the iPad Air is _definitely_ not Retina.


What I was trying to say is, Apple wants you to hold an iPad much further from your face, so by definition, the iPad retina display is still considered a "retina display".


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## PityOnU (Oct 23, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Nah, and I mean the customization of the OS. iOS is locked to what Apple wants you to do. Android is locked to almost nothing. Stock provides limited customization but apps in the Play store can do almost whatever you want.


 
That's what I mean though, if the iPad Air was an Android device, do you think it'd be worth the $100 premium over the Nexus 10?

That's my question for you.


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## 3bbb7 (Oct 23, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> That's what I mean though, if the iPad Air was an Android device, do you think it'd be worth the $100 premium over the Nexus 10?
> 
> That's my question for you.


 
I personally dont. I think that paying $100 for a glossy backcover is ridiculous. If you think that your nexus doesnt feel good to hold there are cases which are definitely not $100 that you can use.

Plus the nexus 10 has "Over 4-million pixels" (google.com/nexus/10) The new iPad Air has a whopping 3.1 million. It has 1GB ram (or am I wrong here?) when the Nexus has 2GB. The 16GB iPad air starts at $499. The Nexus 10 32gb is... $499 (16gb is $399)
Apple's devices are equivalent to Alienware in mobile technology. Paying for a glossy backcover and a logo really.


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## joelv6 (Oct 23, 2013)

all i say is that it has pros and cons, mostly cons but yeah it looks good


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## The Milkman (Oct 23, 2013)

raulpica said:


> It's ARM. Anyway x86 is almost there, thanks to Intel's Bay Trail. Next year, or two years at most, x86 will pretty much have the same thermals (and more power) of ARM.


 

Yeah, those new Baytrails look awesome. Hear they can work with Android x86 and Win 8, pretty damn good if you ask me.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 23, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Yeah, those new Baytrails look awesome. Hear they can work with Android x86 and Win 8, pretty damn good if you ask me.


 
Intel has core  chips that are pretty efficient as well.

These things are a lot more expensive than atoms or ARM processors, but they can run at pretty low power while doing routine tasks while still overclocking instantly when needed. They are powering the new Surface Pro 2 tablet from Microsoft, which has a theoretical battery life as long as the new iPad, although it will probably be less if you use it for processor-intense tasks.


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## nando (Oct 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> Well, look at the Microsoft Surface line. They show a lot of innovation. The Surface has a built in kickstand and a really good keyboard cover, so you can prop it up in your lap, on the table, wherever. The surface pro 2 line is basically an ultrabook in tablet form that has an active digitizer, has battery life comprable to an iPad, and can run regular desktop applications. You get a tablet with real PC guts for only a few hundred dollars more than an iPad.
> 
> Microsoft's partners have also had some really innovative tablet PC designs over the year.
> 
> Apple basically refuses to do anything with its iPad line other than release the Jobs-approved giant iPod touch/iPhone tablet. It is too bad too, because I bet a lot of Apple fanatics would buy a tablet version of the Macbook Air along similar lines to the Surface Pro.


 


how is turning a tablet into a half ass notebook innovation? 
do you realize that the goal of the ipad was to eliminate the use of keyboard or anything other than your hand as the input device?

steve: i want to make a computer with no stylus and no keyboard
microsoft: lets innovate the ipad by adding a stylus and a keyboard


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## gamefan5 (Oct 24, 2013)

nando said:


> how is turning a tablet into a half ass notebook innovation?
> do you realize that the goal of the ipad was to eliminate the use of keyboard or anything other than your hand as the input device?
> 
> steve: i want to make a computer with no stylus and no keyboard
> *microsoft: lets innovate the ipad by adding a stylus and a keyboard*


By putting it like this, I don't even know what's the different between a Microsoft surface and a laptop with a touchscreen. XD


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## Originality (Oct 24, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> By putting it like this, I don't even know what's the different between a Microsoft surface and a laptop with a touchscreen. XD


The option to take away the keyboard when you don't need it. Now considering that you can also get a Bluetooth keyboard case for the iPad, I say meh.

I've been considering the upgrade to an iPad 5 for a while now. From my iPad 2. But I'm going to wait a few more months before deciding if 64 bit is worth anything. I never cared for retina...


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 24, 2013)

nando said:


> how is turning a tablet into a half ass notebook innovation?
> do you realize that the goal of the ipad was to eliminate the use of keyboard or anything other than your hand as the input device?
> 
> steve: i want to make a computer with no stylus and no keyboard
> microsoft: lets innovate the ipad by adding a stylus and a keyboard


 
Innovation means doing something useful and new.  Microsoft beat Apple to the tablet format by many, many years.  What made Apple innovative with the iPad was that they realized that there was a consumer market for a cheap,  underpowered tablet device that could only perform bare-bones functions such as web browsing.

Part of Microsoft's problem was that they overestimated the average consumer whereas Apple understood that most people were willing to settle for significantly inferior hardware and software if it were easy to use and able to accomplish a few basic functions, like web browsing, that increasingly dominated PC usage.

What makes the surface and surface pro innovative is that they took something that basically is in the form and similar in size to an iPad, and gave it many new, useful features.  For instance, few tablet PC's before the Surface Pro 2 had such a slim size, weight, and long battery life.  Few tablets as small had an active digitizer.  Few tablets had a really good keyboard attachment or kickstand.

You mention some of the real problem with Apple in your post.  Apple just does not give you options.  If you want just a basic tablet, Microsoft gives you the Surface.  If you want something that is light enough to replace a tablet, but heavy duty enough to replace a laptop, Microsoft gives you the surface pro.  If you want to use your tablet to do word processing, Microsoft gives you Office, really high quality keyboard, and a built in kickstand. 

Apple does not give you those options because the all-and-mighty Steve Mobs says you don't need to be able to write a cover letter on your iPad.  If you want to do that, you should spend $1000 or more on a fancy new Macbook or struggle with the onscreen keyboard.  If you want a tablet that runs photoshop and allows touchscreen stylus input, well, you're not going to find it from Apple because Apple thinks you don't need it.  Instead, you should spend $10,000 on a Mac Pro and a Wacom digitizer input.



Originality said:


> The option to take away the keyboard when you don't need it. Now considering that you can also get a Bluetooth keyboard case for the iPad, I say meh.
> 
> I've been considering the upgrade to an iPad 5 for a while now. From my iPad 2. But I'm going to wait a few more months before deciding if 64 bit is worth anything. I never cared for retina...


 
Well, it is not just that.  I have owned several Microsoft Tablet PC's and, unlike the Surface Pro, they simply are too heavy to hold comfortably in one hand for an extended period.  By contrast, I have no problem holding something as heavy as a macbook air in my hand for extended periods and the Surface Pro 2 is lighter than a Macbook Air once you remove the keyboard cover.

The keyboard cases for the iPad add a lot of heft and bulk, and they still do not add the ability to use an accurate stylus or run an application like Office, Photoshop, Mathematica, or Matlab.


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## chris888222 (Oct 24, 2013)

Seeing that the new iPad mini uses the same chip,  same camera, higher ppi albeit smaller screen and at S$140 less expensive, I'd rather go for that than the Air.


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## Originality (Oct 24, 2013)

But the mini has a smaller screen.
But the mini has a smaller screen.

Pro and con.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 24, 2013)

Originality said:


> But the mini has a smaller screen.
> But the mini has a smaller screen.
> 
> Pro and con.


 
I really do not understand the usefullness of something between a phone and paper-sized tablet.  The iPad mini and its ilk are too small to read a normal document such as a word, PDF file, or textbook, but too big to be a phone (bigger than the oversized Note 3)

I have a Kindle and I never think, "man, this is the perfect size".  I always think, "man, I want something big enough to read a full PDF or textbook," or, "I wish this fit in my pocket". 

Maybe there is something I am missing?


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## Kouen Hasuki (Oct 24, 2013)

The amount of Anti Apple in this thread is disturbing...

I currently dont have any iOS devices (I'm on android atm) but damn O.o People need to calm down some of ya'll sound like its gonna affect ya all personally.

Why not just let Apple product users be and if they want to pay that much let them if your an Android user get your Android stuff... Why do some people get so aggressive or defensive over what is essentially just another brand.

Maybe It's my age talking but all this reminds me of is the School ground arguments over which is better Mega Drive (Genesis) or Super Nintendo. Pick which ever YOU prefer and roll with it let others use what they want its not gonna harm you or effect your own personal life in any way lol

(Rant off)

Could be a decent upgrade for people on early iPads I think but not sure its worth it as a generational update though really at the moment I dont have any tablet but my Galaxy S2 does what I would have wanted of a tablet any way


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## nando (Oct 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> Innovation means doing something useful and new. Microsoft beat Apple to the tablet format by many, many years. What made Apple innovative with the iPad was that they realized that there was a consumer market for a cheap, underpowered tablet device that could only perform bare-bones functions such as web browsing.
> 
> Part of Microsoft's problem was that they overestimated the average consumer whereas Apple understood that most people were willing to settle for significantly inferior hardware and software if it were easy to use and able to accomplish a few basic functions, like web browsing, that increasingly dominated PC usage.
> 
> ...


 


i wa gonna entertain your arguments but i won't, it's just too silly. plus neither product is for me. besides, the surface needs all the costumers it can get. so preach on.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 24, 2013)

Where the fuck is the touch sensor?


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## Chocolina (Oct 24, 2013)

Android or Apple... almost half a devices value is almost dependent on the screen itself.

So the iPad Air, you get one of the lightest 9+inch tablets around, its super thin, likely pretty durable, has a great display, and is probably powered by the same CPU/GPU in the iPhone 5S

Sounds like a pretty solid device to me. Though $500 for 16GB is pretty lame.

I still don't know why 32GB isn't the standard already.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 24, 2013)

Chocolina said:


> Android or Apple... almost half a devices value is almost dependent on the screen itself.
> 
> So the iPad Air, you get one of the lightest 9+inch tablets around, its super thin, likely pretty durable, has a great display, and is probably powered by the same CPU/GPU in the iPhone 5S
> 
> ...


 
iPads (at least the full sized ones) are typically powered by some of the fastest ARM, low power CPUs and GPUs on the market, unlike the iPhone.  If Apple included a microSD card like everyone else, the 16 GB model would be fine.


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## SickPuppy (Oct 24, 2013)

Just about any smartphone or tablet worth owning has one. Apple, where's the fvcking SD slot on your devices.


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## raulpica (Oct 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> iPads (at least the full sized ones) are typically powered by some of the fastest ARM, low power CPUs and GPUs on the market, unlike the iPhone. If Apple included a microSD card like everyone else, the 16 GB model would be fine.


I honestly don't get what people do with more than 16GB on board. My Android cellphone is loaded with emulators, and I still can't fill the 16GBs.


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## KingVamp (Oct 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> I really do not understand the usefullness of something between a phone and paper-sized tablet. The iPad mini and its ilk are too small to read a normal document such as a word, PDF file, or textbook, but too big to be a phone (bigger than the oversized Note 3)
> 
> I have a Kindle and I never think, "man, this is the perfect size". I always think, "man, I want something big enough to read a full PDF or textbook," or, "I wish this fit in my pocket".
> 
> Maybe there is something I am missing?


7.9in screen, 7in even, should be enough to read a document. ~6in with some sacrifice.   People can fit these ~6in - 7in devices in their pocket and overall they are easier to carry around than a big tablet.  If they are going to be that big, I rather just use a laptop.


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## Qtis (Oct 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> iPads (at least the full sized ones) are typically powered by some of the fastest ARM, low power CPUs and GPUs on the market, unlike the iPhone. If Apple included a microSD card like everyone else, the 16 GB model would be fine.


 
Adding a microSD card to the equation would fuggle up quite a few things in terms of the file system and OS. Using different file systems on mobile devices isn't optimal. Speeds can suffer greatly compared to integrated memory (pricing of which is purely something that can be blamed on Apple. If they hadn't done the $100 and double memory route, neither would have anyone else).

Apple isn't the only one with this idea. Google does the same thing with the Nexus devices. My Nexus 7 still has quite a big of space left even though I've got 5 or so humble bundles slapped on it.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 25, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Adding a microSD card to the equation would fuggle up quite a few things in terms of the file system and OS. Using different file systems on mobile devices isn't optimal. Speeds can suffer greatly compared to integrated memory (pricing of which is purely something that can be blamed on Apple. If they hadn't done the $100 and double memory route, neither would have anyone else).
> 
> Apple isn't the only one with this idea. Google does the same thing with the Nexus devices. My Nexus 7 still has quite a big of space left even though I've got 5 or so humble bundles slapped on it.


 
I think it is more of a design perspective.  They don't want a hole to mess up their pretty little masterpiece.  No well designed operating system has trouble with removable drives.  My Windows and android phones never did. 



KingVamp said:


> 7.9in screen, 7in even, should be enough to read a document. ~6in with some sacrifice. People can fit these ~6in - 7in devices in their pocket and overall they are easier to carry around than a big tablet. If they are going to be that big, I rather just use a laptop.


 
Based on my experience with the Kindle, it is large enough to struggle to read a regular sized document.  It is not comfortable.  Something larger, like a textbook, just doesn't work.





raulpica said:


> I honestly don't get what people do with more than 16GB on board. My Android cellphone is loaded with emulators, and I still can't fill the 16GBs.


 
Well, my old iPod is 60gb and only holds a fraction of my music, so just for music alone I need a 64gb chip.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 25, 2013)

raulpica said:


> I honestly don't get what people do with more than 16GB on board. My Android cellphone is loaded with emulators, and I still can't fill the 16GBs.


 

To be fair nowadays so much stuff is cloud-based. You don't need to download movies when you have Netflix and Hulu Plus and Amazon Instant Video. You don't need to download music with Google Play and I think iTunes does cloud streaming now. The only things left are some apps (most of which don't take up a lot of space), games will be taking up the majority but not a lot of people buy an iPad for gaming alone.


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## raulpica (Oct 25, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> Well, my old iPod is 60gb and only holds a fraction of my music, so just for music alone I need a 64gb chip.


I just fire up YT when I need to listen to some music.

Yeah, audio quality is crap, but I don't use (nor have) $600 hi-fi ear-buds


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## Chocolina (Oct 25, 2013)

raulpica said:


> I honestly don't get what people do with more than 16GB on board. My Android cellphone is loaded with emulators, and I still can't fill the 16GBs.


Most devices 16GB is really like 14.5-15.3 GB, and even a portion of that is reserved for system files. Stock roms on feature-rich devices with bloatware take up 800MB-1800MB.
There are a handful of games on Android that exceed 500-1500 MB. Games like Asphalt reach almost 2GB, and a game like Bards Tale I think is 1.7GB, but gives you the option to go HD at the cost of another GB.

That doesn't include the other things people use devices like these for. 1000 tracks of MP3 VRB V1 is about 4-5GB
And if you're someone like me who torrents videos using work's wifi, you need atleast 3GB free each day.

After formatting and OS, my phone has 24.8 usable GB left and I have all but 500MB filled. My device does not have an SD so I'm hoping Stickmount can support my device someday so I can attach temporarily expand my storage.


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## Wisenheimer (Oct 26, 2013)

raulpica said:


> I just fire up YT when I need to listen to some music.
> 
> Yeah, audio quality is crap, but I don't use (nor have) $600 hi-fi ear-buds


 
Unfortunately, a lot of newer portable devices don't have the best DACs.  The ones in the old iPod videos were actually pretty good.  They sound better on my $200 Klipsch earbuds than my Galaxy S4.


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## Ericthegreat (Oct 28, 2013)

Nightwish said:


> Isn't it the great advantage of choosing and developing for Apple products that there's few models? Yeah, 'bout that...
> Isn't it the point of mobile development to be easy and inexpensive, which super-high resolutions work against?
> 
> Can I go knock some pundits heads now?


Well, tho I dislike apple, if you program for ios it will most likely work on all the devices, and you normally get hi res materials for your game anyway, then you downgrade them for space/technical requirements (if needed). Same cannot be said for android, where there are bugs between phones, that pretty much kill your app. (but norm can be fixed).


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## Joe88 (Oct 28, 2013)

Ericthegreat said:


> if you program for ios it will most likely work on all the devices.


as long as said device is not more than 2 years old


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