# Is Windows 10 safe to use?



## Subzero100 (Nov 29, 2020)

One reason why i never installed this is because there really was no reason to, and when i found out that Microsoft installed spyware on it permanently changed my mind. I've seen alot of custom windows downloads everywhere, so does it mean it's safe to use?


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## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 29, 2020)

use windows 7

trust me


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## Alexander1970 (Nov 29, 2020)

Hello.
 




> *Is windows 10 sae to use?*



Yes,absolute.
Like

- Windows 3.11
- Windows 95
- Windows NT
- Windows 98
- Windows ME
- Windows 2000
- Windows XP
- Windows Vista
- Windows 7
- Windows 8

Every Windows Version deserves the Right to be described as absolutely trustworthy and,of course,sa(f)e to use.

Good Day.


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## GCS (Nov 29, 2020)

Windows 7 doesn't get security updates afaik.
I would recommend you to use Linux specifically:
- Linux Manjaro
- Linux Ubuntu, you can search others too.
It may seem Linux is nerd-ish and hard to use but it's not. There are pre-installed app stores that you can find most of the things that you are searching that are even better than App(le) Store and Microsoft Store


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## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 29, 2020)

GCS said:


> Windows 7 doesn't get security updates afaik.
> I would recommend you to use Linux specifically:
> - Linux Manjaro
> - Linux Ubuntu, you can search others too.


microsoft exaggerates how bad no security updates is, so if he had to, i would say he should use windows 7.

But if we're recommending linux distros then...
Pop OS
Manjaro
ArcoLinux
Linux Mint


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## Deleted User (Nov 29, 2020)

if you keep windows 7 and 8 up to date it has the same """spyware""" btw


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## tech3475 (Nov 29, 2020)

There are ways to disable telemetry, such as o&o shutup10, W7/8 had it added as well. 

The biggest issues I have with W10 is that sometimes it just breaks, like the other week, did a normal reboot and it just refused to login.

So I'd suggest having a scheduled backup of the system partition if possible, only reason I didn't restore was that I had intended on clean installing anyway.



CPG said:


> microsoft exaggerates how bad no security updates is, so if he had to, i would say he should use windows 7.
> 
> But if we're recommending linux distros then...
> Pop OS
> ...



It can be an issue though, to the point that MS has had to release patches for certain exploits because so many people were being affected.

Before considering switching to Linux, I'd suggest trying them in a VM first to see if it does what you want it to.

Even between distros there can be compatibility issues.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Nov 29, 2020)

Ignore anyone that tells you to "just use Windows 7" and other such garbage, because Windows 7 had most of the data collection systems backported years ago. If you're using any update Windows 7 version from like 2015 or so, congratulations, you have the same spyware and you're just a moron.

IMO, install Windows 10 LTSB. This removes most of the data collection services like Cortana, Edge, and most of the Metro apps, and is still able to receive security updates. 

Otherwise, just use Linux.


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## Deleted User (Nov 29, 2020)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Ignore anyone that tells you to "just use Windows 7" and other such garbage, because Windows 7 had most of the data collection systems backported years ago. If you're using any update Windows 7 version from like 2015 or so, congratulations, you have the same spyware and you're just a moron.
> 
> IMO, install Windows 10 LTSB. This removes most of the data collection services like Cortana, Edge, and most of the Metro apps, and is still able to receive security updates.
> 
> Otherwise, just use Linux.


man, finally someone with common sense realizing that 7 is no safer than windows 10


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## GCS (Nov 29, 2020)

tech3475 said:


> There are ways to disable telemetry, such as o&o shutup10, W7/8 had it added as well.
> 
> The biggest issues I have with W10 is that sometimes it just breaks, like the other week, did a normal reboot and it just refused to login.
> 
> ...


Yes, testing distros in VM is a great option.
Even if you disable some settings in Windows it will still get your data from another service (i.e. MS Office, Edge, etc...)
Since Linux is open-source exploits are patched fastly too.


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## flowlapache (Nov 30, 2020)

if you don't use Windows 10 LTSB, you can run "privatezilla" to disable a large part of the telemetry.
I f you don't really need windows (to play "only windows " game or use a specific software), sure you'll find safe happiness with a linux distribution ;-)


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## duwen (Nov 30, 2020)

Blackbird


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## smf (Nov 30, 2020)

In diagnostics & feedback you can just set to required diagnostic data. Then it will only send data necessary to get windows updates.

The whole telemetry thing has been way overblown. I would rather trust Microsoft than some randoms off the internet that provide a hacked version of windows or an exe that will make my copy of windows "safe".

LTSB is kinda pointless too. Although I would never use Home, as Pro has too many necessary features.


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## The Real Jdbye (Nov 30, 2020)

CPG said:


> use windows 7
> 
> trust me


No one should be using Windows 7 anymore.


Subzero100 said:


> One reason why i never installed this is because there really was no reason to, and when i found out that Microsoft installed spyware on it permanently changed my mind. I've seen alot of custom windows downloads everywhere, so does it mean it's safe to use?


If you are worried, use something like Spybot Anti-Beacon (what I use)
Microsoft has publicized exactly what data they collect from telemetry. It's a long list, but there's nothing there that should have you worried.
Even so, not being able to turn it off is just something I don't like, and that's why I use Spybot Anti-Beacon.


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## Subzero100 (Dec 1, 2020)

i see people cant even answer a simple question, and im not installing spyware on my pc just to play 1 game.


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## GCS (Dec 1, 2020)

Subzero100 said:


> i see people cant even answer a simple question, and im not installing spyware on my pc just to play 1 game.


In addition to that now you can play most of the single-player games with Steam on Linux and some multiplayer games with Windows 10 KVM. So, I really don't see a reason to stay in Windows except if you need Adobe or another program that isn't compatible with Linux and necessary for you or your job.


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## HollowGrams (Dec 1, 2020)

Still on windows 7 - It simply works.


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## Tomobobo (Dec 1, 2020)

I eventually caved and got windows 10 because of better app scaling for high dpi monitors, the microsoft store for one single game, and "better" hdr and 4k support.  If you want/need some of those things you might consider upgrading but if you're running a 1080p setup and don't play Bedrock Minecraft I would say stay on 7.  

The amount of times I've had to enter this shit called Group Policy Editor just to have something work is absolutely insane.  Features in the "security" section of Win10 mess up a lot of piracy shit for me also.  That's not even mentioning updates which are somewhat disableable, that is until they aren't and then all of your settings get reverted and it's quite a hassle as far as daily upkeep for just a simple desktop os.


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## smf (Dec 1, 2020)

Tomobobo said:


> That's not even mentioning updates which are somewhat disableable, that is until they aren't and then all of your settings get reverted and it's quite a hassle as far as daily upkeep for just a simple desktop os.



I've been running Windows 10 for five years, I have no idea what this "daily upkeep" is. I don't recall any settings getting reverted, let alone all of my settings.

If you leave your computer running processes overnight then I would suggest using Windows 10 Pro and disabling automatic updates https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10

The only other annoyance is if you have slow internet as Windows will download updates in the background and will happily attempt to max out your downstream, which is annoying if you are trying to watch netflix. You can set a maximum speed in Settings now.



GCS said:


> So, I really don't see a reason to stay in Windows except if you need Adobe or another program that isn't compatible with Linux and necessary for you or your job.



I've hated Linux (and all Unix) since the 90's. I don't see a reason to run Linux unless you have software that hasn't been ported to Windows, or you are forced to use Linux for your job.


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## GCS (Dec 1, 2020)

smf said:


> I've been running Windows 10 for five years, I have no idea what this "daily upkeep" is. I don't recall any settings getting reverted, let alone all of my settings.
> 
> If you leave your computer running processes overnight then I would suggest using Windows 10 Pro and disabling automatic updates https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10
> 
> ...


There is one big reason to run Linux: Open Source.
This makes so that the exploits get patched more quickly since there are multiple developers checking it and makes you sure that the apps and the OS doesn't spy on you.
- There are additional features like, Live and Proper Kernel/ System updates that let's you use your PC while updating and doesn't break your PC.
- There are more customizability options.
- After some time app installations can even become easier than Windows or Macintosh.
- Great compatibility for Windows apps/ games and option to run Bare Metal VM(KVM) so fi you really need an application or game that is only on Windows or Linux you can use that VM without having huge performance drops.
- It's free.


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## smf (Dec 1, 2020)

GCS said:


> This makes so that the exploits get patched more quickly since there are multiple developers checking it



You'd think, but in practice it doesn't seem to have helped that much. Wifi and Bluetooth stack exploits used by the NSA were hanging around in Linux for years, either because nobody cared to look at the code or they didn't understand it enough.

It's mostly PR.


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## GCS (Dec 2, 2020)

smf said:


> You'd think, but in practice it doesn't seem to have helped that much. Wifi and Bluetooth stack exploits used by the NSA were hanging around in Linux for years, either because nobody cared to look at the code or they didn't understand it enough.
> 
> It's mostly PR.


I didn't say it will patch *all* exploits as soon as they got out, I talked generally. Also, I wouldn't really compare Linux to Windows 10's exploit library really You can't just look at a newly found exploit on Linux and make Linux look worser without even checking Windows 10 exploits that have been newly found.


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## smf (Dec 2, 2020)

GCS said:


> You can't just look at a newly found exploit on Linux and make Linux look worser without even checking Windows 10 exploits that have been newly found.



People look for exploits in Windows more than they look for them in Linux and MacOS.

If Linux was more popular then it would be a clusterfuck.


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## GCS (Dec 2, 2020)

smf said:


> People look for exploits in Windows more than they look for them in Linux and MacOS.
> 
> If Linux was more popular then it would be a clusterfuck.


If you are more popular than you should have a bigger team that searches for exploits + if you are bigger then you should be more careful about your users.
This is Microsoft's responsibility. If Linux would get a larger user base both developers who patches exploits and hacker numbers would increase which equalize themselves. But this is not the same in Windows.


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## PityOnU (Dec 2, 2020)

windows 10 killed my father - would not recommend

live in a mud hut and eat rocks - it's the only way to be safe for sure... and even then I'd question the rocks

Seriously, though, wtf is wrong with you people. I guarantee you all have smartphones and/or use the internet. All of that collects way more data on you than Windows ****ing telemetry. 

Ofc, reliability/usability is a different question entirely. But in terms of "privacy"... Guys... C'mon.

You're also asking "Is Windows 10 safe to use?" while also talking about "customized" versions from third parties. Customized how? By who? Are you serious right now?

Fools. *shakes head and puts tinfoil hat back on to eat rocks*


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## smf (Dec 2, 2020)

GCS said:


> If you are more popular than you should have a bigger team that searches for exploits + if you are bigger then you should be more careful about your users.
> This is Microsoft's responsibility. If Linux would get a larger user base both developers who patches exploits and hacker numbers would increase which equalize themselves. But this is not the same in Windows.



I agree it's not equal, Microsoft have invested a huge amount in security. Linux wouldn't have done that.
You're lucky it's less popular.


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## ccfman2004 (Dec 2, 2020)

There is a script you can run on the ISO you get from Microsoft that removes almost every bit of MS spyware.  I don't remember where to get it but there is a Youtube video from Linus Tech that shows it.


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## Deleted User (Dec 3, 2020)

I am biased. I don't trust anything not running Linux.

Windows sends encrypted packets to Microsoft whenever connected to the internet. I don't know what data these packets contain. To find out you have two options. The first is research it online. The second is to dump the packets using Wireshark, make a RAM dump, find the keys in the RAM dump, decrypt them then analyse them manually.

So does Microsoft keep track of what you do on your computer and to what extent? I don't know. I only know that they can.

Microsoft is (probably) able to use these packets to determine your identity and check your IP address to see where you are physically. Smartphones do this to. If you have Facebook on your phone Facebook will record every Wi-Fi hotspot you have used. This means they know when you went to your friends' houses and when you were at the shopping centre. Public Wi-Fi hotspots themselves track you using MAC addresses.

Some Linux distributions also send encrypted packets when connected to the internet. This is necessary for automatic updates. Linux Mint does this. Kali Linux does not. If you use Kali Linux you will need to update manually every second day because an outdated operating system contains known security bugs which can compromise your privacy.

If you care about privacy, minimise your smartphone usage and use Linux and Tor as much as possible. Randomise your MAC address too. Encrypt files containing sensitive data using VeraCrypt. Keep in mind, using privacy focused software and Kali Linux looks suspicious which might bring you unwanted attention.

Use common sense too. Don't open files you've downloaded while connected to the internet, especially not FreePornDownloader. Don't click on links in suspicious emails. Careful who you trust. JellyPerson has over 1000 posts here and was banned for distributing a Switch trojan horse containing brick code. Don't connect stolen goods to the internet. There is a known case where a murder was solved with a stolen Nintendo Switch.

You will want to use a privacy focused email service like ProtonMail. Other online services may not have privacy focused options. Your only option is to minimise how much you use them. Signal is the best messaging app but you will need to convince your friends to use it and smartphones' OSs can still spy on you while using it. In Australia anti-encryption laws are used to coerce tech companies into providing plaintext copies of encrypted communications.

There are situations where Windows will be the superior or only choice. Some software will only run on Windows and most games run best on Windows. Keep a second hard drive with Windows on it. Use Linux by default and use Windows when there is a pragmatic reason to.

Source: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ctivity_leads_to_break_in_murder_case_mystery



PityOnU said:


> windows 10 killed my father - would not recommend
> 
> live in a mud hut and eat rocks - it's the only way to be safe for sure... and even then I'd question the rocks
> 
> ...


You're biased too. You work for Microsoft.


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## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Everything Microsoft has produced is a virus too control it's host. Windows is a virus for your PC, Xbox is a virus for your TV, Covid is a virus for you.  Use windows 10-LTSB if you find it necessary to use a Microsoft OS.


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## PayotCraft (Dec 3, 2020)

Well you can use Windows 10, just install an antivirus and you'll be fine.

Though currently I run on Windows 7.


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## ccfman2004 (Dec 3, 2020)

Isn't it LTSC now?


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## raging_chaos (Dec 3, 2020)

Subzero100 said:


> i see people cant even answer a simple question, and im not installing spyware on my pc just to play 1 game.



What you are calling 'spyware' is called Telemetry to every business with an online presence today. Want to not be tracked by any sort of telemetry? Your only solution is to not ever go online or use a cell phone. The level of stupid misinformation is astonishing, especially for something that has widely been known to have been backported to Win7 long ago. Switching to Linux isn't going to stop Amazon and Google collecting telemetry from when you browse online either, and yes even 'incognito' still sends some sort of telemetry.

There are plenty of tools available to disable all telemetry from all versions of Win10, but be prepared to also break updates, upgrades, and driver downloads as well. LTSB/C is not a solution for anyone that refreshes their setups every so often, such as a change of CPU. A lot of software will nag you are on an unsupported version of Windows or flat out won't install since LTSB/C is always behind. Newer hardware such as printers and mice are starting to come with Apps you have to install from the MS Store directly. If you are going to stay on a PC that will never have its hardware/software changed and only has one function, then have a go at LTSC.

You're worrying about Microsoft while ignoring the rest, there's more than one finger in your information pie. Want to disable telemetry completely from all sources? Unplug your modem and then toss out the window along with your cell phone.


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## GCS (Dec 3, 2020)

raging_chaos said:


> What you are calling 'spyware' is called Telemetry to every business with an online presence today. Want to not be tracked by any sort of telemetry? Your only solution is to not ever go online or use a cell phone. The level of stupid misinformation is astonishing, especially for something that has widely been known to have been backported to Win7 long ago. Switching to Linux isn't going to stop Amazon and Google collecting telemetry from when you browse online either, and yes even 'incognito' still sends some sort of telemetry.
> 
> There are plenty of tools available to disable all telemetry from all versions of Win10, but be prepared to also break updates, upgrades, and driver downloads as well. LTSB/C is not a solution for anyone that refreshes their setups every so often, such as a change of CPU. A lot of software will nag you are on an unsupported version of Windows or flat out won't install since LTSB/C is always behind. Newer hardware such as printers and mice are starting to come with Apps you have to install from the MS Store directly. If you are going to stay on a PC that will never have its hardware/software changed and only has one function, then have a go at LTSC.
> 
> You're worrying about Microsoft while ignoring the rest, there's more than one finger in your information pie. Want to disable telemetry completely from all sources? Unplug your modem and then toss out the window along with your cell phone.


First of all until you are a complete tech newbie or something you should now that Google's incognito is BS.
There are steps that you can take to not get tracked, it's not impossible. Some of the things that I am going to count right now are based on Snowden (search it if you even don't know him)(There are some security tips too):
*For PC:*
- No ad and encrypted mail service: Tutanota, Protonmail (Use aliases)
- Browser: Brave, Tor Browser or Firefox(you need to do some configuration and extensions)
- A new Cloud Storage: Nextcloud
- Password Manager: Bitwarden
- 2FA for all accounts possible
- Use Linux! (For Begginers: Manjaro, Ubuntu,...)

*Mobile (Android):*
- Download LineageOS or GrapheneOS If possible. Disable all personalization settings If you couldn't download them.
- Download and setup NetGuard.
- Use Signal instead of Whatsapp.
- Use DuckDuckGo or Brave as your Browser.
- Download an open source 2FA App.
- If you love social media then use web-app versions of them.

This is a real quick guide on how you can protect your privacy on Internet, this isn't perfect but it's better then just sticking a paper
on your head which says "please take all my private data and sell them to random companies."
Additionally,  I would suggest for you to read the title of this thread "Is Windows 10 Safe?" so we are only discussing Microsoft.


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## GCS (Dec 3, 2020)

smf said:


> I agree it's not equal, Microsoft have invested a huge amount in security. Linux wouldn't have done that.
> You're lucky it's less popular.


I don't think you understood what I said. If an open source OS or Software gets more popular devs and hackers number increase at the same time which equalizes them. On the other hand Microsoft's Windows is closed source so only Windows devs in Microsoft can see them which makes less people but more hackers compare to Linux.


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## raging_chaos (Dec 3, 2020)

You have completely misread what I have posted about incognito and have gone on a tangent. None of the information you provided was either asked for nor needed. At no point have I said anywhere incognito is an option to disable telemetry. Linux, Tor, and all the rest of the things to stay anonymous are well documented, but the second you sign into Google or any other service on any connection you are sending data, regardless of platform. Even Tor tells you not to sign into anything for that very reason. There's no such thing as staying anonymous while being signed in. You can encrypt the connection and hide it from your ISP and third parties but you are still sending data to whatever service you are connecting to.


GCS said:


> First of all until you are a complete tech newbie or something you should now that Google's incognito is BS.
> There are steps that you can take to not get tracked, it's not impossible. Some of the things that I am going to count right now are based on Snowden (search it if you even don't know him)(There are some security tips too):
> *For PC:*
> - No ad and encrypted mail service: Tutanota, Protonmail (Use aliases)
> ...


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## GCS (Dec 3, 2020)

raging_chaos said:


> You have completely misread what I have posted about incognito and have gone on a tangent. None of the information you provided was either asked for nor needed. At no point have I said anywhere incognito is an option to disable telemetry. Linux, Tor, and all the rest of the things to stay anonymous are well documented, but the second you sign into Google or any other service on any connection you are sending data. Even Tor tells you not to sign in to anything for that very reason. There's no such thing as staying anonymous while being signed into anything. You can encrypt the connection but you are still sending data to whatever service you are connecting to.


Well, I am sorry for the part that I misread, my 1st language isn't English.
The important thing is making sure that your accounts aren't connected together. Yes, when you sign in they can collect data but if you make them so that they cannot relate that data with your other accounts then you can find privacy and anonymity at least to some point.


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## raging_chaos (Dec 3, 2020)

Completely agree 100%, which is why I don't understand when someone posts about disabling Microsoft's telemetry. They are so concerned about what Microsoft is doing but meanwhile they are signed into all these services that are doing even more data collection. It's insane. 


GCS said:


> Well, I am sorry for the part that I misread, my 1st language isn't English.
> The important thing is making sure that your accounts aren't connected together. Yes, when you sign in they can collect data but if you make them so that they cannot relate that data with your other accounts then you can find privacy and anonymity at least to some point.


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## MohammedQ8 (Dec 3, 2020)

I use windows 10 since forever and only use windows defense. Never installed antivirus.

Didnt need to reinstall windows nor have blue screen of death because I dont watch porn on pc anymore and use new stable hardware.


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## GCS (Dec 3, 2020)

raging_chaos said:


> Completely agree 100%, which is why I don't understand when someone posts about disabling Microsoft's telemetry. They are so concerned about what Microsoft is doing but meanwhile they are signed into all these services that are doing even more data collection. It's insane.


Yes, it is useless as you said if you just disable telemetry in just 1 device that you don't even get another protection on. I am not even talking about other devices
If you are going for the route of privacy/ anonymity than you should do it in all your devices and get precautions on your internet browser and other stuff.


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## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

GCS said:


> I don't think you understood what I said. If an open source OS or Software gets more popular devs and hackers number increase at the same time which equalizes them.



I do understand, but Microsoft increases their developers based on the money coming in.
There is no money coming into Linux, so even if a billion people start using Linux tomorrow that doesn't mean people will volunteer to audit it in their spare time. I would assume that people who want to audit Linux are already doing so.

Having the source doesn't actually help too much either, most of the automated methods for finding exploits work off binaries.
In fact having the source can make it harder as comments can actually mean you misunderstand what the code is doing.

There are advantages to open source, but I think this one is a myth.


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## GCS (Dec 3, 2020)

smf said:


> I do understand, but Microsoft increases their developers based on the money coming in.
> There is no money coming into Linux, so even if a billion people start using Linux tomorrow that doesn't mean people will volunteer to audit it in their spare time. I would assume that people who want to audit Linux are already doing so.
> 
> Having the source doesn't actually help too much either, most of the automated methods for finding exploits work off binaries.
> ...


If Linux would get popular the donations would increase which can be used to hire more devs near the volunteer ones which would help closing exploits.
At least we won't be able to see such a thing in the near future.


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## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

GCS said:


> If Linux would get popular the donations would increase which can be used to hire more devs near the volunteer ones which would help closing exploits.



I don't think more devs finding them is much help. The future is automated tools.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/open-...-open-source-software-have-hit-a-record-high/

Of course the criminals can also accelerate their efforts using those methods and Linux ransomware is now on the loose.

I think it's going to be a rough ride for Linux, even without the desktop market they have the phone and server market & Microsoft have experience of this which Linux really hasn't (they were too busy ROFLing about Micro$oft)


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## xpoverzion (Dec 3, 2020)

Windows 10 is way better than 7 if you take the time to set it up correctly.  As others have said, you can disable most of the "spying" features.  You can also disable automatic updates with some third party software.  I would highly recommend installing "classic shell" too if you want Win 10 to feel more like a modern version of Win 7.  I loved Win 7 as well, and held off as long as possible to install win 10.  Now that i have 10 running exactly how I like it, I could never go back to 7.


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## GCS (Dec 3, 2020)

smf said:


> I don't think more devs finding them is much help. The future is automated tools.
> 
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/open-...-open-source-software-have-hit-a-record-high/
> 
> ...


I still don't think Linux is in danger, Windows is. Yes Open Source software's exploits can be found via automated software but this technique can be used by Linux devs too, so that they can patch the exploits.
Other than this, Windows has most of the market share, and Windows users if you compare them to Linux have less experience with PCs or don't have knowledge about them that much (I am not saying all of them or something, Windows is more known in public and most pre-build computers come with it and of course Windows is used by programmers too but just comparing it with the userbase.). So in the end hackers will find it easier to hack or write malicious software for Windows users.
*In the end, the biggest exploit of the system is its user.*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Hackers can get some money from Linux users which hold 0,9% of the share but they would find it easier to just get money or install malware on 5%(this number is just as a symbol, to show that it is greater than Linux) of the Windows users and get money from them.
These numbers can be changed by informing users about the situation but for now or for at least 5 years I don't think this will change.


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## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

GCS said:


> Windows has most of the market share, and Windows users if you compare them to Linux have less experience with PCs or don't have knowledge about them that much (I am not saying all of them or something, Windows is more known in public and most pre-build computers come with it and of course Windows is used by programmers too but just comparing it with the userbase.). So in the end hackers will find it easier to hack or write malicious software for Windows users.
> *In the end, the biggest exploit of the system is its user.*



Right, I think this has more of an effect than Microsoft being evil/closed source and Linux being saintly/open source.


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## raging_chaos (Dec 3, 2020)

The average user isn't the target of ransomware anymore, its big business and data centers. That 0.9% share is just the number of Steam users on Linux as of Summer 2020 and is a very inaccurate figure to use here, in enterprise it hovers around 10%. Linux isn't made up of all home PC Linux enthusiasts, Linux enterprise distributions and deployments are many such as in Linux datacenters. The incentive to target Linux is and has always been there, we just don't hear about it very often. Businesses don't jump on twitter to announce they have been hacked like the average PC user would, they just restore their backups and go on. Only government offices and hospitals have been having issues because of lack of proper backups.


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## PityOnU (Dec 3, 2020)

koohiiwonomimasu69 said:


> You're biased too. You work for Microsoft.



It's true - I do. I've seen how the sausage is made, and I'm of the opinion that it's nothing to worry about. You can take from that what you will. 

Windows 10 is definitely "safe" to use. There are multiple levels of overview/regulation that exist within the company, and the people who work here are very aware that what they are doing effects millions (billions?) of users. Even if you don't trust that, there are also fairly detailed regulations already in place by global governments to protect your rights that companies (such as Microsoft) have to adhere to if they want to continue to do business at a global scale. A non-trivial amount of work is invested into documentation/disclosure/user-facing opt-ins/outs for the above reasons.

It's also worth pointing out that the main reason to track user activity is for content suggestion/delivery. Companies such as Google and Facebook make the majority of their revenue from ads (in Google's case, 85%+). Conversely, Microsoft's main revenue streams are commercial licensing of Windows, Office(365), and cloud services. Microsoft has much less of an incentive to track your private/personal info, and much more to track the performance/reliability of their own software, which is exactly what the telemetry is doing.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to how paranoid you want to be about things, and how much trust you're willing to allow in exchange for convenience. E.g., even with open source, unless you are downloading and compiling literally everything on your system from the source repos, you still have no idea what is actually running. It's very easy to configure modern build tools to automatically insert/modify code during the build/package/release process. Beyond that, what about your hardware? Who wrote the firmware running on your WiFi chipset? Where does the chain of trust end? Do you really have the time to do everything yourself in order to be _completely_ sure, or would you rather, you know, go outside today?

That's not just tech, but society as a whole, which is what I was (mockingly) referring to in my original post. You want to keep a secret? Live by yourself completely off the grid. Anything beyond that and you are losing privacy. Two people can keep a secret, but only if one is dead, etc. But just imagine how stressful and shitty that life would be.

Anyway... grand scheme of things, Windows 10 is fine. It's been out long enough now that even if there was anything questionable going on, at least one person would have found it by now and raised a red flag. If you are actually concerned about privacy, there are other things you should be looking into wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy before this.


----------



## GCS (Dec 6, 2020)

PityOnU said:


> It's true - I do. I've seen how the sausage is made, and I'm of the opinion that it's nothing to worry about. You can take from that what you will.
> 
> Windows 10 is definitely "safe" to use. There are multiple levels of overview/regulation that exist within the company, and the people who work here are very aware that what they are doing effects millions (billions?) of users. Even if you don't trust that, there are also fairly detailed regulations already in place by global governments to protect your rights that companies (such as Microsoft) have to adhere to if they want to continue to do business at a global scale. A non-trivial amount of work is invested into documentation/disclosure/user-facing opt-ins/outs for the above reasons.
> 
> ...


You can't say something like "definite" unless you know/read the source code of Windows 10 which is impossible.

Yes, they are very aware that they give your precious data to governments and sell them to companies. Again you can't be sure that the settings that you make matters or there are other telemtries that you can't change until you see the source code. Btw even the Windows EULA states their is telemetry.

So, you should be OK that NSA, Google, Facebook, CIA, Microsoft, etc. knows where you went that day, your contacts, access to your webcam and microphone, your messages and mails (most of these can be learned by Windows 10.) and even more... And how can you be so sure that they just use it for ads?

More eyes on the code equals more privacy and security. Known open source distros and software are checked by lots of devs so that you can learn if they respect privacy or not. You are right, you can't know about the hardware that much but you can use open source drivers.

There aren't just two options. Yes, you can not be 100% private but you can make this amount so smaller that even if they get an information about you they can't connect it with something else so it becomes more useless.

Again Windows 10 isn't fine until you know the source code. There are seeable telemetry settings and EULA agreements that we can see but we can't see the source code. You are right in this part but you should start from somewhere such as changing your OS to Linux and then changing your other services like mail, cloud, etc...


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## PityOnU (Dec 7, 2020)

GCS said:


> You can't say something like "definite" unless you know/read the source code of Windows 10 which is impossible.
> 
> Yes, they are very aware that they give your precious data to governments and sell them to companies. Again you can't be sure that the settings that you make matters or there are other telemtries that you can't change until you see the source code. Btw even the Windows EULA states their is telemetry.
> 
> ...



You didn't really seem to actually read/understand anything I posted, but meh, you do you, man. It's your call at the end of the day.


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## Zoey79 (Dec 8, 2020)

You can’t run your device in Safe Mode indefinitely because certain functions, such as networking, won’t be operating, but it is a great way to troubleshoot your device. And if that doesn’t work, you can restore your system to a previously working version with the System Restore tool.


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## Joom (Dec 13, 2020)

PityOnU said:


> If you are actually concerned about privacy, there are other things you should be looking into wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy before this.


If one is this overly paranoid they shouldn't even be connected to the internet. Even Linux and other UNIX-likes aren't privacy safe havens, and it even takes further set up to get even a semblance of actual privacy. Rent your own VDS with a privacy advocate host to run your own VPN/SSH tunnel (never rent a commercial VPN). Setup stubby for round robin DoH (DNS over HTTPS) so all of your DNS requests are encrypted with SSL through multiple resolvers (and use a router that allows custom resolvers). Never use Google or any of their other sites like YouTube, because even with an ad blocker, all of the text you input is fingerprinted and sold to some advertiser. The rabbit hole gets deep if you truly concern yourself with privacy, and it really comes down to how much time you're willing to educate yourself and how much money you're willing to spend for resources.


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## Zoey79 (Dec 15, 2020)

Windows' Safe Mode is an essential tool. On computers infected with malware or crashing because of buggy drivers, Safe Mode may be the only way to start the computer.  Safe Mode starts your PC with a minimal set of drivers and services.


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## KimKong (Dec 15, 2020)

Wow.. So much ignorance....


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## burhansalih (Dec 15, 2020)

Use Window 10 Pro and Windows Debloater (https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater) never let me down.


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## raging_chaos (Dec 15, 2020)

Zoey79 said:


> Windows' Safe Mode is an essential tool. On computers infected with malware or crashing because of buggy drivers, Safe Mode may be the only way to start the computer. Safe Mode starts your PC with a minimal set of drivers and services.



No one is asking about Windows' Safe Mode at all. You have completely misunderstood the discussion.


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## The Real Jdbye (Dec 15, 2020)

Eh, it's safer than 7, that's for sure. If you're worried about spyware install something like Spybot Anti-Beacon. Microsoft publicized the entire list of the data they collect and it seems like there's nothing personal/important in there.


CPG said:


> use windows 7
> 
> trust me


No one should be using Windows 7 anymore. This is terrible advice.


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## nani17 (Dec 21, 2020)

Windows 10 is great imo


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## AsPika2219 (Jun 10, 2021)

I am using Windows 10 forever! Say bye-bye to oldies Windows!
Anyway, there are some new updates today! 

https://www.groovypost.com/news/microsoft-releases-june-patch-tuesday-updates-for-windows-10-3/

Including weathers, news, traffics, stocks etc


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## console (Jun 16, 2021)

It's fine. Make sure turn off all other extra features like data share that send your info to Microsoft. Same apply to Windows 11 just like 10. Windows 10 and 11 have full spywares in background running. It never go away. People need to turn off all setting and use 3rd party software to kill all know Microsoft spywares then safe to use. Never use Microsoft store because not important to us anymore, it require our Microsoft account to sign in for to use Microsoft store. I dislike Microsoft store.

I still using Windows 7. I saw new *Windows 11 now force everyone to use Microsoft account for to sign in!* *Windows 11 don't have local user on there for offline account system!* Windows 10 have local user or use Microsoft account to sign in it. I don't like Microsoft sign in system! I hate Microsoft!

I have Windows 10 Professional Pre-Activated from filecr website and Linux on my VMware Workstation Pro program. If any internet apps no longer support on my Windows 7 then I will forced to use Windows 10 and Linux to running inside VMware Workstation Pro program on my Windows 7 Professional without format my computer to save my headache. 

I will keep using Windows 7 until around year 2023 - 2025 then switch to Linux. I have old computers that come with Windows XP just for gaming only, not on internet. I'm big fans of Windows XP and 7 are just for gaming only. 

I will going head to Linux and drop Windows out in near future. Windows 7 will be my last Windows operating system then jump to Linux operating system soon when new Intel Alder or Raptor or Meteor release out in end of year 2021, 2022 and 2023. I just want Linux gaming to replace my Windows gaming.


Cheers








Proof that Windows 10 have tons of spywares in background that what I found there.


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## Deleted User (Jun 16, 2021)

console said:


> It's fine. Make sure turn off all other extra features like data share that send your info to Microsoft. Same apply to Windows 11 just like 10. Windows 10 and 11 have full spywares in background running. It never go away. People need to turn off all setting and use 3rd party software to kill all know Microsoft spywares then safe to use. Never use Microsoft store because not important to us anymore, it require our Microsoft account to sign in for to use Microsoft store. I dislike Microsoft store.
> 
> I still using Windows 7. I saw new *Windows 11 now force everyone to use Microsoft account for to sign in!* *Windows 11 don't have local user on there for offline account system!* Windows 10 have local user or use Microsoft account to sign in it. I don't like Microsoft sign in system! I hate Microsoft!
> 
> ...


windows 11 still lets you use an offline account lol


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## console (Jun 16, 2021)

Oh. That's why I saw news on internet and show off Windows 11 on YouTube. Someone said don't have user local on there. Maybe someone edit and cut video to short time to hide features.

I think easy to confuse a lot of people about Windows 11.  LOL


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## Undwiz (Jun 16, 2021)

Hologram said:


> Still on windows 7 - It simply works.



 Except for gaming ,  10 is great is you use AeroTweaker


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## raging_chaos (Jun 16, 2021)

console said:


> Never use Microsoft store because not important to us anymore, it require our Microsoft account to sign in for to use Microsoft store. I dislike Microsoft store.



Dislikes the Microsoft store, but then proceeds to download Google Chrome and give them even more metrics. You don't need to  sign into the MS Store to download anything, you're spreading the same misinformation about telemetry that has been given since Win10 first came out. You willingly give away tons more info to Google and you opt in the second you install it.

And FYI if you can download a pre-activated version of Windows Pro then you can download Enterprise which comes with most of what you have listed as off by default. Then there's also LTSC which is even more neutered.


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## Undwiz (Jun 16, 2021)

Latiodile said:


> windows 11 still lets you use an offline account lol



  Windows 10 can have a offline account , just pay attention when setting it up...


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## raging_chaos (Jun 16, 2021)

Undwiz said:


> Windows 10 can have a offline account , just pay attention when setting it up...



IDK why its so hard for people to look in the lower left corner of that screen where it says "setup with a local account".


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## Undwiz (Jun 16, 2021)

Downloading Win 11 now ,  Funny how I google search win 11 not long ago and it stated that microsuck said 10 was it .... going to make 11 my main OS because f-it -- I have 9 storage  drives


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## GCS (Jun 16, 2021)

Honeslty I see no reason for people to use Win10/11, except for people who need Adobe programs because of their job or people who play online games that have shtty anti-cheat. I see no reason to support a company that doesn't care about your personal rights.
Linux is highly customizable, respects you and your rights, lightweight, easy to use (even easier then windows in most cases) and free.
When microsoft releases an update that tweaked ui just a little bit I do not understand why people gets hyped up because in Linux I can just choose from hundereds of different themes that fit my preference without an external tool.
I am not posting this to argue but rather make people try so-called "hard to learn", "not user friendly OS" called Lie-nux.
Just give Kubuntu Linux a shot. If you don't like it you don't like it, it's your choice in the end. I just don't want people to get stuck in an ecosystem without even trying other alternatives


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## Flaire (Jun 16, 2021)

Subzero100 said:


> One reason why i never installed this is because there really was no reason to, and when i found out that Microsoft installed spyware on it permanently changed my mind. I've seen alot of custom windows downloads everywhere, so does it mean it's safe to use?


Yes there are things in windows 10 that class as spyware, but like other have said use windows seven, woth the added bonus its more stable.


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## raging_chaos (Jun 16, 2021)

Jayumi said:


> Yes there are things in windows 10 that class as spyware, but like other have said use windows seven, woth the added bonus its more stable.



And like many others have said all telemetry has been backported to Win7 a very long time ago. The amount of hate Win10 gets is pointless.


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## RednaxelaNnamtra (Jun 16, 2021)

GCS said:


> Honeslty I see no reason for people to use Win10/11, except for people who need Adobe programs because of their job or people who play online games that have shtty anti-cheat. I see no reason to support a company that doesn't care about your personal rights.
> Linux is highly customizable, respects you and your rights, lightweight, easy to use (even easier then windows in most cases) and free.
> When microsoft releases an update that tweaked ui just a little bit I do not understand why people gets hyped up because in Linux I can just choose from hundereds of different themes that fit my preference without an external tool.
> I am not posting this to argue but rather make people try so-called "hard to learn", "not user friendly OS" called Lie-nux.
> Just give Kubuntu Linux a shot. If you don't like it you don't like it, it's your choice in the end. I just don't want people to get stuck in an ecosystem without even trying other alternatives


For playing newer Games Windows can still be the easier choice. Yeah, Linux game support is much better now, but there are still to many title needing manuall tweaking to work, to recomend it to every gamer.


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## GCS (Jun 16, 2021)

RednaxelaNnamtra said:


> For playing newer Games Windows can still be the easier choice. Yeah, Linux game support is much better now, but there are still to many title needing manuall tweaking to work, to recomend it to every gamer.


Well, I don't play a lot of new games on my pc so I don't know a lot about that part. But most of the most popular games are playable on Linux. And tweaking in most cases takes about 10 minutes thanks to protondb.com


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## Deleted User (Jun 16, 2021)

I'm at that point in my life where I will separate my Work and Gaming Lives.

This year's new PC purchase will be for the newer GPU and CPU needed for Work and I'll definitely keep on checking for those to have Drivers on Linux.
Unfortunately, my AEC Design Software Packages don't run Linux just yet, but using Virtual Machines might answer that whilst waiting. 
Some do run on Apple MacOS, which is my second option.

All my Gaming will be done on Consoles; SONY PlayStation for in-home and Nintendo Switch on-the-go.
Smartphones to Apple's iOS.

That is my route for the upcoming years.


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## Flaire (Jun 16, 2021)

raging_chaos said:


> And like many others have said all telemetry has been backported to Win7 a very long time ago. The amount of hate Win10 gets is pointless.


Windows 7 is the best windows os in my opinion.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jun 16, 2021)

Jayumi said:


> Windows 7 is the best windows os in my opinion.


But it doesn't get updates anymore, so it should no longer be used, using Win7 now is like running without an AV, it might be fine until one day you visit a compromised website or run a malicious cracked software/game.


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## Flaire (Jun 16, 2021)

The Real Jdbye said:


> But it doesn't get updates anymore, so it should no longer be used, using Win7 now is like running without an AV, it might be fine until one day you visit a compromised website or run a malicious cracked software/game.


Thats why I use a vm


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## GCS (Jun 16, 2021)

The Real Jdbye said:


> But it doesn't get updates anymore, so it should no longer be used, using Win7 now is like running without an AV, it might be fine until one day you visit a compromised website or run a malicious cracked software/game.


Tbh running AV is just unnecessary imo, it slows down your pc, you pay for it yearly. You can just throw the suspicous file to virustotal and boom no need for AV. (But that's off topic lol)
Win7 lacks system level security updates and using it is just opening yourself into viruses.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Jayumi said:


> Thats why I use a vm


Still if you have important files or you do your daily browsing in there your data might get stolen.
Wait do you use vm in win7 or a win7 vm?


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## tabzer (Jun 16, 2021)

The OP is kind of dumb but the discussion is pretty interesting.



Subzero100 said:


> I've seen alot of custom windows downloads everywhere, so does it mean it's safe to use?



I question what this means.  Did he see some "custom editions" on some "warez" sites?


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## The Real Jdbye (Jun 16, 2021)

GCS said:


> Tbh running AV is just unnecessary imo, it slows down your pc, you pay for it yearly. You can just throw the suspicous file to virustotal and boom no need for AV. (But that's off topic lol)
> Win7 lacks system level security updates and using it is just opening yourself into viruses.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


Good AVs should have little effect on performance, and I've never paid for an AV in my life. Paid AVs don't give you better protection, they just give you extra features like firewall built in, which there are many free alternatives for anyway.


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## GCS (Jun 16, 2021)

What AVs do is scanning your files in case of a virus. Virustotal or it's alikes does the same thing.  Giving an auto-starting closed source AV, admin privilege access is a great risk for privacy and security imo. AV companies like using fancy words that's just marketing. You only need 4 things to not to get viruses in Windows: Common sense, Updating system/software, virustotal or it's alternatives, windows defender.

In Linux you only need Common Sense and Updating.


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## LostRabbit (Jul 4, 2021)

Hehe, hooray for common sense. Best antivirus program to have. 

Ive been sticking to win7 for a loooong time too. Win10 used to run in virtual box ;p Eventually i had to switch because of that new mainboard and missing drivers. 

Spend quite some time deactivating tons of those super smart features, killing telemetry stuff manually, using tools like SU10. 
So, everything unnecessary is removed. Im using VPN, block most of the stuff in firefox, use different browsers for different purposes and keep things separated. Clean up regularly and dont forget backups. Call me paranoid, but this makes me feel..like nearly safe, lol. 

Guess it depends on what kind of software you need to run. Linux would be an easier path; _security_-_wise, but its about compatibility too, sadly^^_


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## Seliph (Jul 4, 2021)

Windows 10 is better than 7 imo, I use O&O ShutUp10 and it's pretty good at dealing with all the spyware garbage.


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## GCS (Jul 4, 2021)

LostRabbit said:


> Hehe, hooray for common sense. Best antivirus program to have.
> 
> Ive been sticking to win7 for a loooong time too. Win10 used to run in virtual box ;p Eventually i had to switch because of that new mainboard and missing drivers.
> 
> ...


Yeah you are right, though no one can be sure if all telemetry is gone because of the fact that win10 is closed source. btw what kind of programs/games do you run that may not be compatible with linux?


----------



## LostRabbit (Jul 4, 2021)

GCS said:


> Yeah you are right, though no one can be sure if all telemetry is gone because of the fact that win10 is closed source. btw what kind of programs/games do you run that may not be compatible with linux?



Yea, thats absolutely true. There is no "100% safe" i guess, especially nowadays. Windows, Google, Facebook, Whatsapp, that brand new mobile phone.. 

While it may be technically possible to get along without all of those, that sounds like way too much of a hassle for me tbh. Guess theres also that "_convenience factor", or lets just call it.. pragmatic. 
_
Ive been a windows user for ages, got everything to work properly, have purchased a lot of software and everything..

My main desktop computer is used for a lot of different stuff, running not quite so common hardware, a quite expensive sound card that does quite some work in real time, an audio interface, video editing software, emulators and quite some old games that i barely got to work on windows 10. 

But in the end, it all comes down to priorities and efford, i guess. If achieving the highest possible level of security was my main goal, i should have probably buried windows long ago, hehe. I dont think thats really necessary tho. Im not the president and dont have alot of super secret stuff going on here. Its still possible to collect some data of me and analyse some of my activities, but im not making it all that easy. 

By the way, what kind of llinux distribution do you use yourself and why?


----------



## wolf-snake (Jul 4, 2021)

uhhmmm... Being this worry about security makes you look kinda suspicious... What is it that you're trying to keep away from anyone? do you have terabytes of... Cuestionable material?


----------



## LostRabbit (Jul 4, 2021)

wolf-snake said:


> uhhmmm... Being this worry about security makes you look kinda suspicious... What is it that you're trying to keep away from anyone? do you have terabytes of... Cuestionable material?



haha, yea, tons of evil stuff ;D

no, seriously its more the idea of someone spying on me, silently collecting my data without asking. that mentality, its more like.. a question of principle? 

I know all of this is irrelevant for most windows users. It doesnt really matter much, if they log activities and do.. what the fridge ever with it  This doesnt seem to be a problem in most countries, obviously. Im generally quite perfectionistic and i really dont like that behavior at all. When using my computer, i want it to do exactly what i tell it to do ^^


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## Barloomo (Jul 4, 2021)

Well I've been usin' it for years and I'm still alive. So yes? xd


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## GCS (Jul 4, 2021)

wolf-snake said:


> uhhmmm... Being this worry about security makes you look kinda suspicious... What is it that you're trying to keep away from anyone? do you have terabytes of... Cuestionable material?


First a fancy quote: "If you think privacy is unimportant for you because you have nothing to hide, you might as well say free speech is unimportant for you because you have nothing useful to say."
Now I can continue:
1) Let's say you are ok with giving your sensitive data to componies like FB, Google, Microsoft, etc because you think your data is in secure hands. But you are wrong, your data is not secure. Facebook, Google, Microsoft has been hacked many times and they are surely not secure (there is no such thing called unhackable actually every device is hackable.), so if one of these companies gets hacked then all your sensitive info will be out there in the wild for any stranger to look. Your home adress, contacts, name, id, credit cards, favorite restaurant, photos, chat logs do you want me to continue?
2) Quote from u/SkynetEnginner:


> The problem I keep seeing is people think that because you don't post it publicly, and assume that everything else is "private"
> I have tried to explain how important your medical information is to Google and Facebook, having a one-on-one conversation over Facebook chat/Gmail, or doing a Google search on a medical condition will tie those medical conditions to you online profile, and marketing companies are willing to pay for your medical conditions. And do you really want embarrassing medical conditions being shared with unknown 3rd parties or leaked publicly.
> Are we really that far from having our car insurance rates increased because Google monitors our speed and driving skills on Android devices and think your a shitty driver even if you have never had a ticket or an accident. Maybe our rates are increased because you have many Facebook friends who are bad drivers and now your insurance company assumes you are a bad driver like your friends.
> Are we really that far from having an insurance company deny you coverage because you did a search for a condition on Google and the insurance might use that to build a risk factor.
> ...


3) Principals.
I may have got a bit off-topic but security builds privacy in the end.


----------



## GCS (Jul 4, 2021)

LostRabbit said:


> Yea, thats absolutely true. There is no "100% safe" i guess, especially nowadays. Windows, Google, Facebook, Whatsapp, that brand new mobile phone..
> 
> While it may be technically possible to get along without all of those, that sounds like way too much of a hassle for me tbh. Guess theres also that "_convenience factor", or lets just call it.. pragmatic.
> _
> ...


Well, if you have programs that aren't supported on linux (such as adobe stuff ) you can fire up a Windows KVM which would take at most 2 hours to configure. Since you only need to do the configuration once it isn't that much of a deal. With a KVM you can get performance nearly as same as natively booting Win10 on your pc. 
About the convenience part you are mostly right but personally I used Windows 10 for ~4 years and my first switch to Linux Mint wasn't that easy as you can guess. But after a month I completely got used to it. Another thing that scares people in Linux is the terminal but you won't be using that a lot of the time and even if you need to do use it, only thing that you will be doing is just copying and pasting text.
btw 99% of the emulators are open-source and support Linux so that won't be an issue.

I use arch . Because it is lightweight and has AUR. AUR is basically a program pool that let's you install any program with just writing it's name, no next-next'ing the installers or accepting annoying ToS. Just write the program name and boom, it installs.


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## LostRabbit (Jul 4, 2021)

GCS said:


> Well, if you have programs that aren't supported on linux (such as adobe stuff ) you can fire up a Windows KVM which would take at most 2 hours to configure. Since you only need to do the configuration once it isn't that much of a deal. With a KVM you can get performance nearly as same as natively booting Win10 on your pc.
> About the convenience part you are mostly right but personally I used Windows 10 for ~4 years and my first switch to Linux Mint wasn't that easy as you can guess. But after a month I completely got used to it. Another thing that scares people in Linux is the terminal but you won't be using that a lot of the time and even if you need to do use it, only thing that you will be doing is just copying and pasting text.
> btw 99% of the emulators are open-source and support Linux so that won't be an issue.
> 
> I use arch . Because it is lightweight and has AUR. AUR is basically a program pool that let's you install any program with just writing it's name, no next-next'ing the installers or accepting annoying ToS. Just write the program name and boom, it installs.



Thanks for your feedback. Thats quite some useful tips there. 

Ive been experimenting with some linux distributions in the past, including ubuntu and mint, using virtual box. performance was not all that great really. Guess i gotta check out KVM and consider switching, next time i have to set up my system


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## weatMod (Jul 4, 2021)

It don't matter , none of this matters
nothing is safe anyways ,  spectre and meltdown say hello
also you probably have  IME or PSP too
the vulnerabilities are hardware embedded now , and that is just what we know about
but  I wouldn't worry too much


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## GCS (Jul 4, 2021)

weatMod said:


> It don't matter , none of this matters
> nothing is safe anyways ,  spectre and meltdown say hello
> also you probably have  IME or PSP too
> the vulnerabilities are hardware embedded now , and that is just what we know about
> but  I wouldn't worry too much



It does matter. If people who use these kind of services would decrease cooperations would need to adapt and become privacy and security friendly, pretty simple. 
If a hardware gets vulnerable, then you should buy a new hardware, again it's simple. (obv this loop will continue so you are kinda right but wrong at the same time)
Saying that it doesn't matter is just running away from the problem imo.


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## AsPika2219 (Jul 6, 2021)

I am using Windows 10 right now! Also updated with Windows Update!  Waiting for Windows 11 and will install it anytime soon.


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## LostRabbit (Jul 6, 2021)

AsPika2219 said:


> I am using Windows 10 right now! Also updated with Windows Update!  Waiting for Windows 11 and will install it anytime soon.



Hehe. Well, thats like.. really great for you  Im using windows 10 right now too. 

Have you ever had any security concerns? Maybe you used shutup10 or anything like that? 

Cheers


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## cearp (Jul 6, 2021)

GCS said:


> Yeah you are right, though no one can be sure if all telemetry is gone because of the fact that win10 is closed source.


People aren't expecting the telemetry to be gone/uninstalled, just turned off.
It's easy to check if you use a firewall!



weatMod said:


> It don't matter , none of this matters
> nothing is safe anyways ,  spectre and meltdown say hello
> also you probably have  IME or PSP too
> the vulnerabilities are hardware embedded now , and that is just what we know about
> but  I wouldn't worry too much


it's not super simple, but not rocket science - if you want to disable intel me you can.
I don't like that we can't do it from the bios, but at least it's possible to disable it via flashing.

If you're really worried, don't use a laptop, don't use windows or mac.


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## GCS (Jul 6, 2021)

cearp said:


> People aren't expecting the telemetry to be gone/uninstalled, just turned off.
> It's easy to check if you use a firewall!


Nah I am pretty sure a great number of win10 users think telemetry is off when you turn it off from settings lol.

Firewalls huh, I don't have that much exp with them since I haven't in need of one before but I know the basics of it (tell me if I make a mistake here). So what if Microsoft uses other domains/subdomains for telemetry too, will you be able to figure out that connection with a firewall too? If you would block all Microsoft related domains then you probably wouldn't get security updates which is even worse then giving your data to Microsoft.


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## cearp (Jul 6, 2021)

GCS said:


> Nah I am pretty sure a great number of win10 users think telemetry is off when you turn it off from settings lol.
> 
> Firewalls huh, I don't have that much exp with them since I haven't in need of one before but I know the basics of it (tell me if I make a mistake here). So what if Microsoft uses other domains/subdomains for telemetry too, will you be able to figure out that connection with a firewall too? If you would block all Microsoft related domains then you probably wouldn't get security updates which is even worse then giving your data to Microsoft.


Well you can have a 'software' level firewall in windows, windows 10 has one built in - and block what you want.
There are many different urls/ips that will get used, and so I'm sure it's possible to block telemetry but still receive updates.
If you are really paranoid, you can download the updates on a different computer and install them offline manually.

You can have an external firewall, then you wouldn't need to worry about windows having any backdoors, all network traffic would be routed through your firewall running on a separate machine, and you'd be in control of that.

(sounds extreme to some people, I don't do these things myself, I don't use windows too much, I just play around for fun)


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## GCS (Jul 6, 2021)

cearp said:


> Well you can have a 'software' level firewall in windows, windows 10 has one built in - and block what you want.
> There are many different urls/ips that will get used, and so I'm sure it's possible to block telemetry but still receive updates.
> If you are really paranoid, you can download the updates on a different computer and install them offline manually.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't trust built-in firewall to check telemetry tbh. There might be a way to get updates while blocking telemetry but even blocking telemetry has it's limits. 3rd party firewall software might not be able to detect if we are connecting to some specific  microsoft servers or not because of the fact that windows is a closed sourced OS, so who knows what is going inside it.


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## raging_chaos (Jul 6, 2021)

GCS said:


> Firewalls huh, I don't have that much exp with them since I haven't in need of one before but I know the basics of it (tell me if I make a mistake here). So what if Microsoft uses other domains/subdomains for telemetry too, will you be able to figure out that connection with a firewall too? If you would block all Microsoft related domains then you probably wouldn't get security updates which is even worse then giving your data to Microsoft.



No IT department anywhere is just going to sit on their thumbs and not lock down all outgoing connections. As had been said before in multiple different ways all telemetry domain servers have already been figured out and the exact data that is sent is well known. Microsoft has disclosed this and it has been independently verified several times over, you can't mess around when it comes to big businesses and their databases. Telemetry has also been backported to Win7 a very long ago, a quick Google search will confirm all points. Apple collects the same type of data they just don't share with outside sources or let the public know and everyone with an Android device has already told Google more than they will ever tell Apple or Microsoft combined.

Anyone stuck on Home edition should be figuring out how to enable gpedit instead of using a crap script that uses a shotgun approach and breaks security/driver updates. An informed user wouldn't be using a Home edition of Windows anyway nor would they be using scripts on Pro/Enterprise because of gpedit/powertools. Any third party free firewall will automatically block a connection the second something tries to go online and you turn off the appropriate services as needed, there's no need to block every individual IP address, this is very common sense stuff. For anyone that can't do any of that preconfigured images with these services turned off can be found online too.

As far as Linux vs Mac vs Windows, Linux is not meant to replace any OS it's meant to supplement. NAS file servers/web servers and the like are meant to be setup with Linux as a foundation, actual terminals, stations, laptops and anything else a layman human will interact is where Windows and Mac will excel at because (to borrow and Apple line) everything 'just works' and is designed to be plug and play with any new hardware that comes out. I can tell you this after having deployed 1200 PC's in a medical building the average user, even a young adult that has grown up with tech, is not as savvy as anyone browsing this website looking for hacks and the learning curve would be longer than just a few weeks/months. A Chromebook, which is just Gentoo Linux, is an easy example of just how dumbed down the OS has to be before it can be sold to and used by the average user.

If I'm flashing an EEPROM or dumping a chip, I'm certainly doing it in Linux, but for something like using CAD software I'm doing it in Windows because not everything can be virtualized and the software is usually a lot more mature and full featured. The Windows Subsystem for Linux has actually had me booting up Linux less lately when it comes to writing to RFID cards and with native Android support coming not having to setup a virtual machine or dealing with the CPU/RAM overhead is even more welcome. Linux has certainly come a long way but it's still not a 100% replacement OS in many cases that don't even involve gaming. I won't even get started on the software that runs on the medical equipment or is used by the billing dept.



GCS said:


> 3rd party firewall software might not be able to detect if we are connecting to some specific microsoft servers or not because of the fact that windows is a closed sourced OS



Firewalls monitor and block all ingoing/outgoing connections on all ports period you can't hide from one and a connection isn't allowed unless you explicitly set it to be allowed. Outside of Windows all connections are logged via routers (which are just hardware firewalls) and going beyond that there's always ISP logs. Routers themselves can be setup to block Microsoft domains but that's still overkill for the actual data people are sending. You don't block the domain, you disable the service that's calling Microsoft. The fearmongering is getting beyond childish and shouldn't be used as a strategy to grow a userbase. Windows is perfectly safe, in fact it's probably what's running the machine that is keeping one alive in the ER during the next visit.


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## Valwinz (Jul 6, 2021)

Windows Vista is where it is at


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## LostRabbit (Jul 6, 2021)

raging_chaos said:


> As far as Linux vs Mac vs Windows, Linux is not meant to replace any OS it's meant to supplement. NAS file servers/web servers and the like are meant to be setup with Linux as a foundation, actual terminals, stations, laptops and anything else a layman human will interact is where Windows and Mac will excel at because (to borrow and Apple line) everything 'just works' and is designed to be plug and play with any new hardware that comes out.



Thats a good point.

THE (best/perfect) OS does not exist. Its like "whats the best car?", "whats the best tool?"

Like i said before, it really depends on *what you need*.


long term stability, reliability, efficiency -> wouldn't really recommend windows

for most casual desktop users, compatibility, convenience -> windows is no bad choice


there will always be software that was designed for/runs best on X, which you can maybe get to run on Y aswell, if you really wanna do that. i use virtualization a lot too and/but generally like the idea of keeping things separated.


in general its always a good idea to have your home network configured properly, your modem, router, network switch, whatever. .

but also, keep your common sense and dont abandon security completely. keep important stuff backed up somewhere else
(Not only RAID!)

all in all, i think one can say windows is safe enough for most people. there are quite some things you can do, but there wont ever be a 100% but thats like.. life, isnt it?


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## cearp (Jul 6, 2021)

GCS said:


> I wouldn't trust built-in firewall to check telemetry tbh. There might be a way to get updates while blocking telemetry but even blocking telemetry has it's limits. 3rd party firewall software might not be able to detect if we are connecting to some specific  microsoft servers or not because of the fact that windows is a closed sourced OS, so who knows what is going inside it.


yeah - this is why I mentioned using an external firewall!

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raging_chaos said:


> I won't even get started on the software that runs on the medical equipment or is used by the billing dept.


Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the medical, business software would work fine in Wine if they were allowed to test!
But we all know that the software companies of these places would not officially support running it this way, and so the business simply wouldn't do it.


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## AsPika2219 (Jul 7, 2021)

LostRabbit said:


> Hehe. Well, thats like.. really great for you  Im using windows 10 right now too.
> 
> Have you ever had any security concerns? Maybe you used shutup10 or anything like that?
> 
> Cheers



Nice software ever!


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## raging_chaos (Jul 7, 2021)

cearp said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the medical, business software would work fine in Wine if they were allowed to test!
> But we all know that the software companies of these places would not officially support running it this way, and so the business simply wouldn't do it.



Putting licensing agreements aside, they certainly would work but as said it would be at the cost of support/liability etc. You also have to deal with some that decide to ship you hardware with preinstalled images therefore you don't get access to installers. Very many WYSE thin pc's worked that way many years ago and any update to the OS had to be supplied directly by them, during that time they would also update any preconfigured software.


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