# Poll: Apple throttling older phones - your opinion?



## _v3 (Dec 26, 2017)

Who cares if they throttle their phones, sheep will still buy them.


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## joepassive (Dec 26, 2017)

It's very wrong in my opinion. I spent a lot of money on my phone and I want to use it well until it starts to malfunction due to old age not because of software by the developer. that's some bull. It's only to sell us new "better" products. It doesn't happen with most androids and even if it does just root it


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## Meteor7 (Dec 26, 2017)

I might see it as both. It seems like something that _could_ be handy for phones with older batteries, but I also don't see any reason that this "feature" couldn't be something within the user's control to toggle on or off at their discretion. What I'd say is that, if this were done to my phone (or any device, really) without my consent, I'd be reasonably upset.


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## smilodon (Dec 26, 2017)

Give me the option to manually throttle the phone and I'll be fine with this. Silently slowing a device is silly imo.


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## Reploid (Dec 26, 2017)

Apple-sempai likes to stoop his slaves.


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## SG854 (Dec 26, 2017)

Ha, I just read this a couple of hours ago.

Can't they just add settings for a slower low power mode to extend battery life in the settings menu.
Even have it on by default if they were so concerned about this.
And give people the option to shut it off. No need to not give people a choice unless they want to sell more phones.


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## migles (Dec 26, 2017)

joepassive said:


> well until it starts to malfunction due to old age


Guess what, theese devices don't die of old age, unless user abuse is under old age.. 
Unless the manufacter uses tricks to make it die of old age
Except for the battery, which Apple makes it really hard to replace in purpose

All this is just a bullshit excuse thrown at ya faces, if the throttle is to protect the phone because a old battery, let me ask ya this, why Apple makes it so hard and doesn't want you to replace it? And if the phone gets a new battery, is the throttle removed? Apple probably by admiring the throttle just skipped a lawsuit or something like that


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## DarkenedMatter (Dec 26, 2017)

Should be illegal IMO. Glad they're getting sued. Same goes for any Android phone maker.
It makes sense to become technologically obsolete when newer hardware is released but not forcibly made obsolete in a firmware update so you will feel like you have to buy a new phone.


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## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

joepassive said:


> It's very wrong in my opinion. I spent a lot of money on my phone and I want to use it well until it starts to malfunction due to old age not because of software by the developer. that's some bull. It's only to sell us new "better" products. It doesn't happen with most androids and even if it does just root it


I heard reports from people irl with old-er apple phones who said their phones would just stop working sometimes. Black screen.  And had to boot them again. And that happend more often when they ran games or other software which needed performance. I would be against it if they would do that for their greed only, with no functional advantage to the consumer. It would of course be better if they put some way to disable it if you want but with the people who buy apple products- i see the incoming problem(s)


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## Dialexio (Dec 26, 2017)

While I think that the slight throttling is better than your phone randomly cutting out at say, 36% battery life, I think that this should have been communicated better, or perhaps implemented a little differently. (For example, the phone could ask to enter Low Power Mode— or do so automatically— when the system thinks the battery might not be able to handle the workload. The user can see that the phone's under throttling, and turn it off if they don't care.)



migles said:


> Guess what, theese devices don't die of old age, unless user abuse is under old age..
> Unless the manufacter uses tricks to make it die of old age
> Except for the battery, which Apple makes it really hard to replace in purpose
> 
> All this is just a bullshit excuse thrown at ya faces, if the throttle is to protect the phone because a old battery, let me ask ya this, why Apple makes it so hard and doesn't want you to replace it? And if the phone gets a new battery, is the throttle removed? Apple probably by admiring the throttle just skipped a lawsuit or something like that


As stated in the linked Guardian article: "The problem can be fixed by replacing the phone’s battery."

One thing to note: A third-party battery will address the throttling issue, but Apple has been known to flat-out refuse servicing iPhones with a third-party battery, regardless of what needs repairing. (This policy is not related to the throttling issue— I want to say it's to avoid issues with cheap third-party batteries that may be prone to exploding.)


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## FAST6191 (Dec 26, 2017)

I have been burned too many times by overzealous marketing types noting the charge cycles in a little eeprom and suddenly declaring it dead one day when all the cells still function enough to be usable. This feels like that, or would if I was foolish enough to use Apple hardware.

Hope someone twists the screws if indeed it is that.

Throttling to increase apparent battery life and maybe also cause an upgrade... uncool if it is not an option.

Throttling because the internal resistance is so high that it drops the voltage below critical, something akin to a modern car's "limp home mode", is not the worst thing to have as an option but again I want selection switches and messages on the display saying "change yer battery".

I shall add it to the diagnostics/repair/refresh flow chart though. Hopefully I can otherwise decent batteries for otherwise workable phones. Unsure if I need to start pulling devices apart, sticking them on the bench supply and playing with the frequency counter for reviews.


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## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

Definitely against. Particularly where no consent is given or even the decency to let the users know.
People think there phone has aged and will be looking to get a new one when their current one is fine except for being purposely slowed.
If Apple had at least told the users, they will probably get their battery replaced instead of buying a new phone.


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## _______ (Dec 26, 2017)

As someone who works in the mobile industry I’d say as manufacturer’s perspect, I’d do the same. It’s better have a slow working device than an unstable device. It’s not just about selling more newer devices, but lower down the customer service cost and maintaining reputation of a brand. You see lots of Android phones just give up on phone, but iPhones can last a lot longer due to lots of reason.

Some people just hate Apple, I didn’t say they are saint but they are not as evil as many Android companies than you think.


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## leon315 (Dec 26, 2017)

As a android user i'm fuking enjoying when bunch of sheep get butchered by apple when they want and how they want....


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## FAST6191 (Dec 26, 2017)

_______ said:


> As someone who works in the mobile industry I’d say as manufacturer’s perspect, I’d do the same.


There is a large difference between having a limp home mode or harsher battery conservation mode you can select as an option and display the results of prominently for those that want it, and having it as a hidden mode that can not be select and seemingly not as much as mentioning it in the manual.


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## fatsquirrel (Dec 26, 2017)

leon315 said:


> As a android user i'm fuking enjoying when bunch of sheep get butchered by apple when they want and how they want....


No, its just because you are too busy trying to delete viruses from your beloved Android.


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## tech3475 (Dec 26, 2017)

I had the shutdown problem with an iphone 6, the battery could be at 50% and it would shut down.

I knew Apple said they had done something, but I never knew they were gimping the phone.



WiiU said:


> Definitely against. Particularly where no consent is given or even the decency to let the users know.
> People think there phone has aged and will be looking to get a new one when their current one is fine except for being purposely slowed.
> If Apple had at least told the users, they will probably get their battery replaced instead of buying a new phone.



What annoyed me more was that Apple refused to acknowledge the problem with the batteries in store.

I travelled to get my iphone 6 battery replaced by Apple (not a fan of third party repairs), but was told that as it was above a certain threshold I wouldnt have the option of a battery replacement and would have to pay hundreds of times more to get it replaced (i didnt), even though this was after they knew about the problem.

I hope Apple do lose the case and have to offer battery replacement service as an option for affected devices.

I also hope Google fix some of the problems I have with Android such as introducing a better backup/restore system like iOS has (adb can be problematic), etc. If they do Im more than willing to switch back for my daily driver as theyre what preventing me from switching back on my next phone.



leon315 said:


> As a android user i'm fuking enjoying when bunch of sheep get butchered by apple when they want and how they want....





fatsquirrel said:


> No, its just because you are too busy trying to delete viruses from your beloved Android.



Can we please stop this kind of childish behaviour? I have used both platforms over a number of years and they both have their problems in terms of hardware, software and ‘corporate overlords’.


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## fatsquirrel (Dec 26, 2017)

tech3475 said:


> Can we please stop this kind of childish behaviour? I have used both platforms over a number of years and they both have their problems in terms of hardware, software and ‘corporate overlords’.



Im just stating the obvious. I couldnt give less shit about any of the platforms really. I have bigger problems in my life than fanboying a mobile platform (which disgust me really as a retro gamer).


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## Cylent1 (Dec 26, 2017)

You might as well start stealing what you want, because you are never gonna get what you pay for as long as these high tech silicon valley companies have these powers!
People need to start taking a list of their terms and conditions to retailers and make them sign it like a contract, and if they refuse, you know they are crooked and should not buy from them!
Us people need to start holding those accountable!
 Give me my atari back!!!!


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## tech3475 (Dec 26, 2017)

fatsquirrel said:


> Im just stating the obvious. I couldnt give less shit about any of the platforms really. I have bigger problems in my life than fanboying a mobile platform (which disgust me really as a retro gamer).



Still be vigilent even with ios, there have been problems in the past such as the modified version of xcode some devs used a while back which slipped through the net.


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## sj33 (Dec 26, 2017)

The fact that the throttling cannot be disabled is damning, to be honest.


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## leon315 (Dec 26, 2017)

fatsquirrel said:


> No, its just because you are too busy trying to delete viruses from your beloved Android.


viruses? my credit cards have never been stolen, so i'm pretty sure my MIGHTY ANDROID is safe. besides u apple sheeps can forget to get custom roms/FW on IOS and deal with apple's choke in the throat.


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## The Real Jdbye (Dec 26, 2017)

While it does make some sense to have this feature, not being upfront about it or letting people toggle it at will is unacceptable. It should be optional like Power Saving Mode on Android.


tech3475 said:


> Still be vigilent even with ios, there have been problems in the past such as the modified version of xcode some devs used a while back which slipped through the net.


Got a link to some info about that?


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## Costello (Dec 26, 2017)

_______ said:


> As someone who works in the mobile industry I’d say as manufacturer’s perspect, I’d do the same. It’s better have a slow working device than an unstable device. It’s not just about selling more newer devices, but lower down the customer service cost and maintaining reputation of a brand. You see lots of Android phones just give up on phone, but iPhones can last a lot longer due to lots of reason.
> 
> Some people just hate Apple, I didn’t say they are saint but they are not as evil as many Android companies than you think.


then they should put better batteries in their phones, not ones that degrade quickly... 
considering the manufacturing costs there is more than enough room for it


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## Vamosi (Dec 26, 2017)

A fine example of scum putting money before people.


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## mgrev (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm laughting at apple fanticonsumers who have denied this for so long now, only to be let down by the company they all love so much. I honestly don't care. I'll never buy an iphone again anyway.


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## KingVamp (Dec 26, 2017)

^Never going to buy one, in the first place. 

I agree that it should have been a choice. Also, just another reason for phones to have removable batteries.


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## Ryccardo (Dec 26, 2017)

migles said:


> Except for the battery, which Apple makes it really hard to replace in purpose


It's not intentional, or better said: something needs to be sacrificed to achieve the key marketing goal of making it 0,2 mm thinner


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## Pluupy (Dec 26, 2017)

Costello said:


> Unless you have been living under a rock during the past few weeks,


This is a rather stupid thing to say. As if Apple doing this is more concerning than most of the world's, and people's issues, during Christmas. Why would Android users even care, the majority of smartphone owners?


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## BlueFox gui (Dec 26, 2017)

after that, apple should be already dying
tell me, there are people going to sue them or something?


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## RustInPeace (Dec 26, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> This is a rather stupid thing to say. As if Apple doing this is more concerning than most of the world's, and people's issues, during Christmas. Why would Android users even care, the majority of smartphone owners?



Hard to be living under a rock when the poll is plastered on the front page too, as if it's the most important poll in GBATemp history, seeing as how I never saw any poll before in my 3 years as a member take up a space in the front page. See that gets me more activated, for lack of a better term, than the issue itself. I knew about this issue before, it's like anti-Net Neutrality, how in the world can one be reasonably for this shady practice by Apple?

Anyways this just reaffirms why I don't buy Apple at all.


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## Costello (Dec 26, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> This is a rather stupid thing to say. As if Apple doing this is more concerning than most of the world's, and people's issues, during Christmas. Why would Android users even care, the majority of smartphone owners?



wow calm your tits my friend, before you call someone stupid:

1) this has been all over the news for days, if not weeks... if you use the Internet at all there is a good chance you have heard of this

2) a lot of Android users are laughing at Apple users right now. So if you are part of this majority, you must be feeling good about yourself right?



mgrev said:


> I'm laughting at apple fanticonsumers who have denied this for so long now, only to be let down by the company they all love so much. I honestly don't care. I'll never buy an iphone again anyway.



calling @iAqua to the rescue... whaddya say?


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## Searinox (Dec 26, 2017)

Save for instances like keeping a consolidated software base that fits all devices, and adding features that older phones cannot handle as gracefully - and even then with limited scope of this - I cannot save their practice as "fair".


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## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

Yes and no to the poll, but I voted yes since I knew it'd be the option less people would vote for.
I think it should be toggle-able and not forced onto users.


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## kevin corms (Dec 26, 2017)

Well I don’t even know how much they throttle. Android phones also get much slower over time, but none of those guys would admit throttling.


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## Minox (Dec 26, 2017)

Personally I see a problem with not informing the customer about what's happening - the actual throttling itself makes sense from an engineering perspective.


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## RustInPeace (Dec 26, 2017)

Costello said:


> 2) a lot of Android users are laughing at Apple users right now. So if you are part of this majority, you must be feeling good about yourself right?



I was laughing last night at a dummy in Die Hard rag-dolling off a police car, this news, even for someone who hates Apple, isn't funny to me. And I'm not feeling good about myself either, the news is rather annoying, face palm causing. I still don't see why the poll is plastered on the front page, especially when the thread itself currently is on the front page. In the grand scheme of things too, it's not surprising, Apple being ballaches to their customers, I feel like they have a history of handicapping users, thinking that it won't backfire catastrophically.


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## Costello (Dec 26, 2017)

Tomato Hentai said:


> Yes and no to the poll, but I voted yes since I knew it'd be the option less people would vote for.
> I think it should be toggle-able and not forced onto users.


there is already a "low energy" mode that users can turn on and off at will.

the throttling we're talking about here is enforced, sneakily. You dont have a choice and you aren't even supposed to know.


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## tech3475 (Dec 26, 2017)

The Real Jdbye said:


> While it does make some sense to have this feature, not being upfront about it or letting people toggle it at will is unacceptable. It should be optional like Power Saving Mode on Android.
> 
> Got a link to some info about that?



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XcodeGhost


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## WiiUBricker (Dec 26, 2017)

Does Apple advertise clock speeds? If yes, I imagine it may be an illegal move to not inform their customers before purchase. I recall reading an article about class action lawsuits against apple because of this.


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## pedro702 (Dec 26, 2017)

this is how they make you buy a new one, after 2 years or so every phone start being very slow and you just waste another $$$ on a newer model and so on.


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## Harumyne (Dec 26, 2017)

I repair iPhones and often need to replace batteries -- I want to know whether this changes upon receiving a new and genuine replacement or whether they continue to throttle?


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## DinohScene (Dec 26, 2017)

Planned obsolescence to the next level!


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Dec 26, 2017)

This is wrong, its nothing more than a way to force consumers to upgrade. The only thing that could be potentially damaged by an abrupt shutdown is software and data. If the battery isn't supplying enough current to the components, it might act flaky, but it certainly wouldn't damage anything. Now if the battery was supplying too much current, it would certainly damage components in the phone, but this isn't the case here. Most consumers running an older phone should already be aware that the phone itself is prone to failure, so they should be backing up their data to the cloud or manually to their pc periodically anyways (even newer phone owners should be backing stuff up regularly, because you never know) so data loss shouldn't be that big of an issue. Apple is just throttling performance to make end users frustrated so they'll fork out more money for a new phone....


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## Baoulettes (Dec 26, 2017)

yes I think they do, yet as I never update my iphone and jailbreak them to get feature I want I never have issue with software that slowdown my phone overtime. 
(Iphone 5s IOS8 and Iphone 4 IOS6 as emergency in case my main phone die)
Both working perfectly fine never had issue and can stand a day without being pluged


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## 330 (Dec 26, 2017)

What a stupid thing to do. A popup telling the user that the battery needs to be replaced if they want to enjoy the full experience could have been a better option.

For those saying that Apple needs to make better batteries, let me remind you that the iPhone 6S came out 3 years ago. Any phone battery older than 2 years WILL give you problems, big or small. This isn't just Apple being greedy, we're very far behind when it comes to battery technology. We were only able to tweak the software to consume less over the last few years.


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## MadonnaProject (Dec 26, 2017)

I am actually STUNNED some people said its understandable. Apple sheep mind control is strong at play here.

Suppose you buy a car and over time the car runs slower (usually within a year) and the company says this is because your car has degraded over time so they've throttled its running speed. Are you actually mad?


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## gnmmarechal (Dec 26, 2017)

I find it ridiculous.


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## The Real Jdbye (Dec 26, 2017)

330 said:


> What a stupid thing to do. A popup telling the user that the battery needs to be replaced if they want to enjoy the full experience could have been a better option.
> 
> For those saying that Apple needs to make better batteries, let me remind you that the iPhone 6S came out 3 years ago. Any phone battery older than 2 years WILL give you problems, big or small. This isn't just Apple being greedy, we're very far behind when it comes to battery technology. We were only able to tweak the software to consume less over the last few years.


Not necessarily, my Note 3 was 3 years old when I upgraded, and the battery was still going strong, it easily lasted a couple of days.
Also, since Samsung's new battery QA process, their battery lifetime is supposedly much longer.


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Dec 26, 2017)

Elemi said:


> I repair iPhones and often need to replace batteries -- I want to know whether this changes upon receiving a new and genuine replacement or whether they continue to throttle?



I would like to know the answer to this as well, as I also do iphone repairs as part of my job.


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## Clydefrosch (Dec 26, 2017)

are people forced to update to newer firmwares not truly meant for their aging iphone?


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Dec 26, 2017)

No in fact, after a certain point, the phone will refuse to update to a version of IOS it can't handle. Ironically, apps will start to be disabled demanding that you need to update the OS to use them, which you can't without getting a new phone. Another way Apple pushes planned obsolescence . There's no reason somebody can't choose to run an outdated version of an app, as long as they understand the security risks involved and don't care about it.


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## sj33 (Dec 26, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> are people forced to update to newer firmwares not truly meant for their aging iphone?


Moot point. It’s perfectly reasonable for the average user to assume that a firmware officially supporting their phone should fully work. And the throttling introduced in later firmwares was never revealed until now.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Not to defend Apple, but it’s strange to accuse Apple of planned obsolescence with their firmware updates when so many Android phones can’t even be updated beyond the major revision they come with.


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## 330 (Dec 26, 2017)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Not necessarily, my Note 3 was 3 years old when I upgraded, and the battery was still going strong, it easily lasted a couple of days.
> Also, since Samsung's new battery QA process, their battery lifetime is supposedly much longer.


The Note 3 is huge. iPhones have to be small and thin.


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## sj33 (Dec 26, 2017)

TeamScriptKiddies said:


> No in fact, after a certain point, the phone will refuse to update to a version of IOS it can't handle. Ironically, apps will start to be disabled demanding that you need to update the OS to use them, which you can't without getting a new phone. Another way Apple pushes planned obsolescence . There's no reason somebody can't choose to run an outdated version of an app, as long as they understand the security risks involved and don't care about it.


Thing is, that’s not really true. Newer apps require newer iOS versions because they are built with the newer SDK. That’s the main reason.

It’s easy to prove this - install LowerInstall on a jailbroken phone (allows you to force-install apps intended for newer iOS versions) and see how many fail to load.


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## r1vver (Dec 26, 2017)

lol, it's coz you think wrong different.
you need to think different different, right different, you know =)


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 26, 2017)

Shouldn't even be up for debate. People buy these phones with their money, and Apple slows them down in the hopes that they'll buy the newest one... And it WORKS.


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## The Real Jdbye (Dec 26, 2017)

330 said:


> The Note 3 is huge. iPhones have to be small and thin.


There are big iPhones. Anyway, that's besides the point. A well made battery can last much longer than 2 years.


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## Axido (Dec 26, 2017)

Dear Apple,

if your batteries suck that much, then put some quality batteries into your overpriced phones.

You can't do that, since there aren't perfect batteries? Okay, that's reasonable.
So, you still want to maintain intact phones that don't shut down occasionally, even though it means throttling them... Well, might be reasonable to some extent.

Just give them the option to throttle the phones themselves if they need to.
So, you think that your customers are too stupid to be able to use such a function properly? Yeah, Apple, I can see your point here.

How about giving them the option to replace their batteries to get back full functionality?
You already do that? For about $80?
Wouldn't it be more consumer-friendly to make battery replacement like it was years ago when every consumer just had to open the back of the phone, take out the old battery and put in the new one?

Yes, but then you couldn't cash in on your customers?

Screw you, Apple.


And that's why I'm fine with any other phone that doesn't have a fruit on it that has been bitten into. Maybe that's an intended metaphor for customers not getting the full fruit or something.


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## codezer0 (Dec 26, 2017)

Simple solution? Force apple to design their iphone with a replaceable battery. Lithium ion should not be in a sealed form, ever. We've seen enough of them exploding to prove how ridiculous it is.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Throttling the hardware for the sake of battery life is an absolutely ridiculous excuse - any cheapy phone store can replace them perfectly fine. This is just a thinly veiled con to sell new iPhones, it's disgusting and I don't understand how anyone could possibly agree that it "makes sense" - it doesn't. The statement simply confirms what we already knew - many iOS updates exist exclusively to make devices virtually unusable.


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## elhobbs (Dec 26, 2017)

Costello said:


> then they should put better batteries in their phones, not ones that degrade quickly...
> considering the manufacturing costs there is more than enough room for it


given the volume and rate of manufacture of the devices that may not be an option.
I would not be surprised if Apple is conflating several issues - defective batteries, aging batteries, and possibly even unsafe conditions. The last point because the throttling is not optional and there is no notification either on the device or as a general policy.


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## SANIC (Dec 26, 2017)

It's completely wrong. Just make the battery removable.


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## wicksand420 (Dec 26, 2017)

That sounds like apple, why not when you offer an inferior product at ridiculous prices


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## dpad_5678 (Dec 26, 2017)

fatsquirrel said:


> No, its just because you are too busy trying to delete viruses from your beloved Android.


I have had Android devices for 6 years and never got a single virus. And I do some pretty weird shit.

Edit: meant since 2011


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## pustal (Dec 26, 2017)

Costello said:


> Do you think it is OK to throttle smartphone performance as the battery gets old?



It's debatably ok, but not OK as Apple is doing it:

a) On their first year, they are running the race for the fastest phone, allowing the CPU every boost it requires, and the batteries only degrade to a slow down point after all reviews of the phone are made;

b) Users have no control over it. Neither at the beginning nor when it slows down. The end user should have a say about what tradeoff foes he prefer;

c) Batteries aren't user replaceable, and Apple has kind of a monopoply on certified repairs. Most users will simply be compelled to buy a new phone.[/QUOTE]


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## RedBlueGreen (Dec 26, 2017)

Dialexio said:


> While I think that the slight throttling is better than your phone randomly cutting out at say, 36% battery life, I think that this should have been communicated better, or perhaps implemented a little differently. (For example, the phone could ask to enter Low Power Mode— or do so automatically— when the system thinks the battery might not be able to handle the workload. The user can see that the phone's under throttling, and turn it off if they don't care.)
> 
> 
> As stated in the linked Guardian article: "The problem can be fixed by replacing the phone’s battery."
> ...


It's so they can get out of repairing your devices. They want to be able to weasel out of it and force you to buy a new iPhone. I question whether a lot of third party batteries would even be worse than an Apple one (assuming you're not buying the cheapest and most generic Chinese battery you can find). I've had Android smartphones for yrars at a time and haven't had sort of problems even with years of gaming on them. I know even Android phones may have battery issues after a while but there's something to be said if Apple has to throttle phones to deal with "ageing batteries". Either their batteries are shit or they're just full of shit.


_______ said:


> As someone who works in the mobile industry I’d say as manufacturer’s perspect, I’d do the same. It’s better have a slow working device than an unstable device. It’s not just about selling more newer devices, but lower down the customer service cost and maintaining reputation of a brand. You see lots of Android phones just give up on phone, but iPhones can last a lot longer due to lots of reason.
> 
> Some people just hate Apple, I didn’t say they are saint but they are not as evil as many Android companies than you think.


The iPhone 6 was realeased in late 2014. 3 years in and they're throttling it. They're throttling the 7 too. I used an Xperia Play from 2011 to 2015 and experienced no noticeable drop in battery life in that time. Summer 2015 until the end of Summer 2017 I used an Xperia Z3 and gamed on it a lot. Watched a lot of online videos and streaming among other battery intensive stuff. No noticeable drop in battery life. Either Apple is using incredibly shitty batteries or they're just bullshitting.


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## GamerzHell9137 (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm pretty sure that iPhone users don't care.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Anyone who says that this is justifiable fails to see the big picture. I test phones for a living and I can guarantee you that they record the number of discharge cycles, they have been for many years. That's not the trigger for throttling though - the actual health of the battery is irrelevant, Apple throttles certain models of phones. This is done deliberately to force people to upgrade. There is no legitimate reason for hardware not to work exactly the same as it did day 1, regardless of battery life, and I sincerely hope Apple gets slapped with a tsunami of class action lawsuits for screwing over their customers.

Edit: I stand corrected, battery state is a part of the equation, read on to find out more.


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## _______ (Dec 26, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> There is a large difference between having a limp home mode or harsher battery conservation mode you can select as an option and display the results of prominently for those that want it, and having it as a hidden mode that can not be select and seemingly not as much as mentioning it in the manual.



If you let the user choose over anything, 10% of them might make the correct decision and use that feature when needed and turn it off to protect their devices for the rest, while 90% of them will just read some media and destroy their devices. And most of the time, non-pro users seem to think they are and knew better than those why have been trained years in EE/CS to have made those decisions.

If people were good at making right decisions, man, my work would be a LOT easier.


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## Ryccardo (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Throttling the hardware for the sake of battery life is an absolutely ridiculous excuse


It's not "battery life" as in squeezing more minutes out of 100 to 0%, though - when a battery is low and/or worn out, the voltage drops more under load, and it may spontaneously power off (showing a still usable charge when turned back on), it's allegedly done to prevent this issue

The Lumia 950 also was made with crappy batteries having this same problem (but no artificial throttling), indeed random reboots when turning on the screen (and also the face scanner if it was enabled) are the norm until you replace the battery with a good one

Of course the fact this feature is mandatory and not mentioned anywhere is questionable, but the "feature" itself - not much


----------



## guicrith (Dec 26, 2017)

If its a feature let the user disable it, simple enough.
Setting > General > Advanced > Underclock [ON/OFF]
Setting > General > Advanced > CPU Max Frequency [100mhz <-> Stock Speed]

It can even be on by default, just let people disable it.

That proves its fraud, its hidden, the user has no say, and its designed to make them more money.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Ryccardo said:


> It's not "battery life" as in squeezing more minutes out of 100 to 0%, though - when a battery is low and/or worn out, the voltage drops more under load, and it may spontaneously power off (showing a still usable charge when turned back on), it's allegedly done to prevent this issue
> 
> The Lumia 950 also was made with crappy batteries having this same problem (but no artificial throttling), indeed random reboots when turning on the screen (and also the face scanner if it was enabled) are the norm until you replace the battery with a good one
> 
> Of course the fact this feature is mandatory and not mentioned anywhere is questionable, but the "feature" itself - not much


Battery saving is already a feature of the iPhone - you can enable Low Battery mode that will gradually disable non-essential features as the battery drains. This isn't that - this is a deliberate attempt to make handsets seem outdated when they're perfectly fine. If you switch the battery in the phone, which you can do at any certified or non-certified store, you're still getting throttled - this has nothing to do with the battery and everything to do with crippling consumer hardware through malware integrated into the OS.

EDIT: I stand corrected, battery cycles are a part of the equation, follow the thread for more details.


----------



## rileysrjay (Dec 26, 2017)

TBH I really think that they're throttling phones so people will get frustrated with their old phones and buy new iPhones. They are just using this whole battery thing as a copout. Glad to see they're getting sued over this as well.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

_______ said:


> If you let the user choose over anything, 10% of them might make the correct decision and use that feature when needed and turn it off to protect their devices for the rest, while 90% of them will just read some media and destroy their devices. And most of the time, non-pro users seem to think they are and knew better than those why have been trained years in EE/CS to have made those decisions.
> 
> If people were good at making right decisions, man, my work would be a LOT easier.


Since when is Apple in charge of their customer's phones? They can flush their iPhones down a toilet if they want to. Apple doesn't know the customer's priorities - maybe the customer is okay with their phone powering down because they *need* the processing power right away, even if the phone will die in 5 minutes as a result. It's not Apple's business to protect customers from themselves.


----------



## Carnelian (Dec 26, 2017)

iPhone will die like Windows Phone...


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

I don't really care, my iPhone SE™ just works on 10.3.3.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

>when you thought the rumors were true years ago when it took your old iphone 6mins to turn on then see this thread
lol
iphones suck


----------



## Ryccardo (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> If you switch the battery in the phone, which you can do at any certified or non-certified store, you're still getting throttled


Hasn't the opposite been claimed?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

Carnelian said:


> iPhone will die like Windows Phone...


iPhones have been going strong for what, 10 years? Windows phone didn't last 5.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

VinLark said:


> iPhones have been going strong for what, 10 years? Windows phone didn't last 5.


only thing apple has going for them is teenage white girls in america
and great presentation of new products
but the iphone x is probably going to do more harm thand good
wireless charging only is not a good thing
bluetooth only for headphones
full glass for the front
iphone x is more of a cash grab in my opinion


----------



## SG854 (Dec 26, 2017)

APPLE

Always 
Protecting
Peoples
Legacy 
Electronics /s


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

Eix said:


> only thing apple has going for them is teenage white girls in america *Blatant
> Stereotype*
> and great presentation of new products *They do have good presentation*
> but the iphone x is probably going to do more harm thand good
> ...


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

lightning to aux
obvious attempt to make more money
also you cant listen to music and charge your phone at the same time


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

Eix said:


> lightning to aux
> obvious attempt to make more money
> also you cant listen to music and charge your phone at the same time


So you would rather them not provide a lightning to AUX? There are also splitters for lightning and AUX together.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support AUX being taken out but my current iPhone has a AUX port and I don't use it. I use bluetooth.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Ryccardo said:


> Hasn't the opposite been claimed?


I'm yet to see such a claim, unless I missed it. It's unjustifiable either way, battery health shouldn't cause a mandatory drop in performance, there's no legitimate reason for it.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 26, 2017)

As others have said, the throttling part does make sense to a certain degree. Components on phones die out much faster than most other devices, purely because of the continued use and type of use cell phones receive, and having an option to help prolong your device's life while sacrificing some performance is one of the "better" alternatives a manufacturer can offer. 

However, as mentioned, doing so without any consent from the user, let alone not even informing the user whatsoever until they were asked about it, is 100% scumbag bullshittery, and not offering the ability to toggle this mode even further so. And even further-er bullshittery, this throttling decision isn't even based off of actual battery health, it's just based on XYZ year old device. We've known Apple (and a fair few other manufacturers, if we're being honest) have always tried to implement some forms of forced obsolescence in their devices to help increase sales of newer devices, this however is going too far.


----------



## Pippin666 (Dec 26, 2017)

Make Apple Great Again .. NOT.

Pip'


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 26, 2017)

leon315 said:


> As a android user i'm fuking enjoying when bunch of sheep get butchered by apple when they want and how they want....


seems the billions samsung spent to make you think that way are working.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

apple probably should not have admitted anything, android makers never do despite android phones turning to shit after a years use.


----------



## tech3475 (Dec 26, 2017)

VinLark said:


> So you would rather them not provide a lightning to AUX? There are also splitters for lightning and AUX together.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I don't support AUX being taken out but my current iPhone has a AUX port and I don't use it. I use bluetooth.



Dongles are annoying though as it's added bulk and yet another thing to track.

BT has it's own problems e.g. it's another thing to charge, monitor, etc.

Either way it's less convenient for me than the integrated jack.



Eix said:


> lightning to aux
> obvious attempt to make more money
> also you cant listen to music and charge your phone at the same time



The worst part is that several Android OEMs are copying the move.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 26, 2017)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> As others have said, the throttling part does make sense to a certain degree. Components on phones die out much faster than most other devices, purely because of the continued use and type of use cell phones receive, and having an option to help prolong your device's life while sacrificing some performance is one of the "better" alternatives a manufacturer can offer.
> 
> However, as mentioned, doing so without any consent from the user, let alone not even informing the user whatsoever until they were asked about it, is 100% scumbag bullshittery, and not offering the ability to toggle this mode even further so. And even further-er bullshittery, this throttling decision isn't even based off of actual battery health, it's just based on XYZ year old device. We've known Apple (and a fair few other manufacturers, if we're being honest) have always tried to implement some forms of forced obsolescence in their devices to help increase sales of newer devices, this however is going too far.


You think? It really depends how much throttling they are doing imo, and kudos to apple for admitting they are doing it and explaining why. At the end of the day I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion by trolls and hyperbolic news articles.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

tech3475 said:


> Dongles are annoying though as it's added bulk and yet another thing to track.
> 
> BT has it's own problems e.g. it's another thing to charge, monitor, etc.
> 
> ...


BT is way more convenient. I charge my headphones over night and boom it lasts that week or 2. Always hated wires.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

tech3475 said:


> The worst part is that several Android OEMs are copying the move.


rip
android lets you listen to music
use external storage
and charge at the same time
i hope some stay useful and dont move on to be ike apple


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

Eix said:


> rip
> android lets you listen to music* Woah i didn't know i couldn't listen to music on my iphone*
> use external storage *Yeah i can do that also on iphone*
> and charge at the same time *yep*
> i hope some stay useful and dont move on to be ike apple


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

you know what i mean
with iphones you can only do 1 at atime
android lets you do all 3


----------



## chartube12 (Dec 26, 2017)

Samsung admitted they had the ability to do the same to thier phones. Infact they did this has one of the failed solutions to the notes exploding.


----------



## tech3475 (Dec 26, 2017)

VinLark said:


> BT is way more convenient. I charge my headphones over night and boom it lasts that week or 2. Always hated wires.



I have to use IEMs but the charge is allot less (up to 6 hours) and it also means I need additional cables for charging I wouldn't otherwise need.

I forgot to add it's also more annoying when switching devices as it now involves dealing with settings I otherwise didn't need to worry about.

I know BT does have it's advantages as well as it's disadvantages, but personally, if given the choice I prefer the integrated jack.



Eix said:


> rip
> android lets you listen to music
> use external storage
> and charge at the same time
> i hope some stay useful and dont move on to be ike apple



Unfortunately Google themselves have removed the socket, hopefully other OEMs keep it but it still a shame as Google's phones tend to be the best for updates from what I recall.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Who the hell are the 30 people that think it's ok?


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 26, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> You think? It really depends how much throttling they are doing imo, and kudos to apple for admitting they are doing it and explaining why. At the end of the day I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion by trolls and hyperbolic news articles.


No, it doesn't depend on anything. Forcing a device to under-perform it's as advertised speeds, irregardless of how little or how much, without so much as a notification that it's happening is bullshit no matter how you look at it. The fact that they didn't even come out and admit anything until a whole year after the feature was implemented because people on Reddit were conducting investigations of their own is even worse.


----------



## 330 (Dec 26, 2017)

Eix said:


> only thing apple has going for them is teenage white girls in america


Maybe try keeping both racism and sexism out of a thread about Apple throttling phones.

While I'm here, I should also point out that only 35% of teenagers want an iPhone in the US, yet iPhone sales are on a raise since 2007.


----------



## DRAGONBALLVINTAGE (Dec 26, 2017)




----------



## FAST6191 (Dec 26, 2017)

_______ said:


> If you let the user choose over anything, 10% of them might make the correct decision and use that feature when needed and turn it off to protect their devices for the rest, while 90% of them will just read some media and destroy their devices. And most of the time, non-pro users seem to think they are and knew better than those why have been trained years in EE/CS to have made those decisions.
> 
> If people were good at making right decisions, man, my work would be a LOT easier.



Doesn't seem to be so bad a choice for the end user to be able to make in this case. It is not like they are choosing between running the battery to a lower cutoff voltage/into deep discharge realms or not. Equally does not dismiss the concern over lack of notifications that it is running in said mode.

We might still have the "never to attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity" debate but the implementation here seems indefensible. As far as stupidity goes I have a hard time for this as I can't believe for a moment that a company's sole/flagship phone does not have its power management so aggressively managed and audited, never mind being at least cognisant of their company's already interesting position with regards to forced/planned obsolescence.

As for people making the right decisions would it also lead to even half as much repair and upgrade work?


----------



## J-Machine (Dec 26, 2017)

make it an option (perhaps a slider bar for customization) as a battery saving feature and i'd be fine with it.


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## Deleted-394630 (Dec 26, 2017)

I agree that if this was optional, there would be no debate, even a little more transparency could have helped to avoid this altogether. While it may be more favorable and convenient to say they did this to force users to a new model, the likely reason was to prevent damage and malfunctions. 

This is coming from an anti-Apple user so take it as you will.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

I feel like they should add an option - but for the majority, just automatically notify and/or enable it. I ok with it as long as they tell people/give the option, but I’m not ok if it’s just a push to the newer phones.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Dec 26, 2017)

SketchyPixel said:


> I agree that if this was optional, there would be no debate, even a little more transparency could have helped to avoid this altogether. While it may be more favorable and convenient to say they did this to force users to a new model, the likely reason was to prevent damage and malfunctions.


Oh come on, we both know they're doing it to increase the odds that customers upgrade to the latest model. If the average iPhone owner (read: non-power user) notices that their phone is slowing down, their first reaction would not be to try and reduce the number of running apps, let alone whether or not the device manufacturer is intentionally throttling CPU speeds to "increase the device lifespan." They'd just assume that "technology doesn't last very long anymore  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" and buy the newest thing by their favorite brand


----------



## Xzi (Dec 26, 2017)

Every day it's some corporation being a dick in a brand new way.  We crossed the line from capitalism into unbridled greed and corruption territory some time ago.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 26, 2017)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> No, it doesn't depend on anything. Forcing a device to under-perform it's as advertised speeds, irregardless of how little or how much, without so much as a notification that it's happening is bullshit no matter how you look at it. The fact that they didn't even come out and admit anything until a whole year after the feature was implemented because people on Reddit were conducting investigations of their own is even worse.


what advertised speeds?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



TotalInsanity4 said:


> Oh come on, we both know they're doing it to increase the odds that customers upgrade to the latest model. If the average iPhone owner (read: non-power user) notices that their phone is slowing down, their first reaction would not be to try and reduce the number of running apps, let alone whether or not the device manufacturer is intentionally throttling CPU speeds to "increase the device lifespan." They'd just assume that "technology doesn't last very long anymore  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" and buy the newest thing by their favorite brand


and what does the average android user do? Android phones lose their value within months for a reason. No matter how you look at it iPhones hold up over time better than the competition even with throttling.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

I'll be switching to android so fuck apple.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 26, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> and what does the average android user do? Android phones lose their value within months for a reason.


All phones lose most of their value quickly, but even quicker if they're being intentionally slowed.  You can get an Android phone at $50 that will probably run faster than any older iPhone model now.  And there's really the difference: if I was paying $800+ for an iPhone, I'd expect it to at least keep performing at a consistent speed.  Hell, for $800 I'd also expect a blowjob and an ounce of weed.  $800 will even build you a pretty damn good gaming PC these days.


----------



## Langin (Dec 26, 2017)

I voted 'no it is wrong', solely based on the fact because they did not inform the costumer and just did it without giving us a choice.


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## zacchi4k (Dec 26, 2017)

Can't we just go back to user replaceable batteries? I'd rather have a replaceable battery instead of waterproofing.


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## VinsCool (Dec 26, 2017)

This is a scummy move.

Silently slowing down devices with soldered batteries is only a bullshit excuse to make them complain about their old 2 years old iPhone so they buy the hot new yearly model.
If at least they warned users about it, or even had an optional feature to manually allow users to throttle their phones, I wouldn't mind.
But blatantly slowing down a device for the sake of it? No way this is okay. Planned obsolescence should be illegal.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

My personal thought is that everyone and their grandmother knows that batteries degrade over time. Apple could very easily have put a notice in during an update, to say battery degradation was occuring, that slowdowns would occur, and had it possible to toggle it off.

But no, they decided to hide it was happening, so I fully believe they're hiding behind the battery excuse.

Disgusting behaviour.


----------



## zacchi4k (Dec 26, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> This is a scummy move.
> 
> Silently slowing down devices with soldered batteries is only a bullshit excuse to make them complain about their old 2 years old iPhone so they buy the hot new yearly model.
> If at least they warned users about it, or even had an optional feature to manually allow users to throttle their phones, I wouldn't mind.
> But blatantly slowing down a device for the sake of it? No way this is okay. Planned obsolescence should be illegal.


Batteries aren't soldered on iPhones. They're just hard to replace


----------



## VinsCool (Dec 26, 2017)

Zacchi4k said:


> Batteries aren't soldered on iPhones. They're just hard to replace


You get my point still


----------



## pedro702 (Dec 26, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> what advertised speeds?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


when you buy a 2ghz octocore iphone you expect it to run at 2ghz octocore not at like half speed after afew years becuase of updates.


----------



## Flame (Dec 26, 2017)

i love how Apple fan boys are twisting this and making it sound like its the smartest move ever.

this news took a bite from the Apple's garden. your taste is delicious apple fan boys.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Dec 26, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> and what does the average android user do? Android phones lose their value within months for a reason. No matter how you look at it iPhones hold up over time better than the competition even with throttling.


The average Android user doesn't have to take out a mortgage to get a new phone. And on top of that, Android users are more likely to be power users that know how to root devices to run custom performance profiles, as well as the Android OS just in general being better at killing things that take up background resources, in my experience


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

The battery claim is just ridiculous, anyone who's ever touched an iPhone knows that it has extensive battery management settings and usage logs. In fact, the iPhone will happily tell the user when the battery needs to be replaced due to wear and tear. There is _no_ reason to throttle the user's device on the basis of battery health, _especially_ if the device explicitly tells the user when said battery is spent. Imagine if anything else worked like that - your 3DS used to run games at 30FPS just fine, but now it runs them at 10FPS because the _battery_ needs to be replaced? That'd be ridiculous, and the 3DS doesn't even warn users about battery failure, it just runs for a shorter period of time. It's one thing to conserve battery when capacity is critical, completely another when it's full, just _old_.


----------



## Tomobobo (Dec 26, 2017)

Why do people buy apple stuff?  

I've never understood it.  Why would you want a limited experience?  

Why would you want your device manufacturer to tell you how to use your device? 

What if I told them they could do anything they wanted, from simple stuff like just adding some music to your internal storage or sd card, to playing gamecube games with almost any bluetooth controller available?  And the device manufacturer is OK with this, you're not voiding any warranties and the world still spins.  

Get this, there's even a button on the phone that goes back 1 step.  No you didn't close your app.  You didn't spend forever wondering where any particular developer put that button. It's amazing.  Buttons!  Hey and when your battery is old, your phone still works. I know it's weird.  Just the thing doing what it said it would when you bought it.  Imagine such a world.

These people don't care.  They aren't buying these devices to actually use them.  It is an icon to help them feel that they are socially superior.  They are mindless.  Let them be consumed.


----------



## pedro702 (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> The battery claim is just ridiculous, anyone who's ever touched an iPhone knows that it has extensive battery management settings and usage logs. In fact, the iPhone will happily tell the user when the battery needs to be replaced due to wear and tear. There is _no_ reason to throttle the user's device on the basis of battery health, _especially_ if the device explicitly tells the user when said battery is spent. Imagine if anything else worked like that - your 3DS used to run games at 30FPS just fine, but now it runs them at 10FPS because the _battery_ needs to be replaced? That'd be ridiculous, and the 3DS doesn't even warn users about battery failure, it just runs for a shorter period of time. It's one thing to conserve battery when capacity is critical, completely another when it's full, just _old_.
> 
> View attachment 109352


they need to make some sort of excuse for what they do, that way they can even make uninformed people think they are doing it for you, and you can only benefict from it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Tomobobo said:


> Why do people buy apple stuff?
> 
> I've never understood it.  Why would you want a limited experience?
> 
> ...


Apple is genuinely great at designing phones and their SoC's are unmatched in the high-end spectrum. Moreover, iOS is just a better operating system than Android, it's much closer to hardware. Unfortunately, Apple is a terrible company that squanders the ingenuity of their engineers by completely locking the platform up.


----------



## RattletraPM (Dec 26, 2017)

Apple doing this is beyond unacceptable, throttling because of battery concerns is just a load of bollocks (and before any Apple fanboys start calling me names, this comes from someone who both used and owned Apple products in the past). I'd tolerate it if the user could choose to turn it on/off but as it is now, it's an incredibly repulsive anti-consumer move.



Foxi4 said:


> Apple is genuinely great at designing phones and their SoC's are unmatched in the high-end spectrum. Moreover, iOS is just a better operating system than Android, it's much closer to hardware. Unfortunately, Apple is a terrible company that squanders the ingenuity if their engineers by completely locking the platform up.



Couldn't agree more. I've never blamed Apple for designing bad or flawed hardware but their closeness and overly anti-consumer policies made me switch as soon as good Android phones started to appear on the market.


----------



## Nyteshade714 (Dec 26, 2017)

The main reason why this is not acceptable on any level is that, if you look closely at Apple's lame excuse, they essentially admit they're throttling phones because they're installing shitty batteries that don't last as long as they should. The fact that the throttling exists is, in itself, an admission of guilt on Apple's part for equipping phones with batteries that don't last as long as they should. And the kicker is that, instead of doing the halfway decent thing and making official replacement batteries available to all of their loyal customers at a reasonable price, they tried to hide their guilt by stealing performance back from customers who've paid for it.

That's not just shady, that's super illegal.


----------



## pedro702 (Dec 26, 2017)

https://twitter.com/sam_siruomu/sta...8/apple-iphone-slow-fix-battery-life-capacity

seriously the throtling is ridiculous so instead of warning you of a bad batery they take aways more than half of the cpu speed of the phone? god damn its rididulous thortling, and they dont tell you to replace the batery becuase apple itself doesnt want people replacing baterys...


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 26, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> seems the billions samsung spent to make you think that way are working.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> apple probably should not have admitted anything, android makers never do despite android phones turning to shit after a years use.


There's some people that think the iPhone X is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Blatantly disregarding the fact their innovation is on the level of Nintendo's. Taking other concepts and implementing them in their devices. Albeit in better ways, don't get me wrong. 

I've seen, read and heard people say they'll buy whatever Apple puts out. They can't justify throttling users phones. To no degree. Tom pretty much covered it, so I'll leave it there.

That last part... Want to talk about being spoofed ignorance? I know people rocking the Galaxy S4 and it's running smooth courtesy of the community. Can't say the same for Apple, obviously. One of my coworkers refuses to upgrade from his S5 because it still works pretty well.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

pedro702 said:


> https://twitter.com/sam_siruomu/status/943400254451335168/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/20/16800058/apple-iphone-slow-fix-battery-life-capacity
> 
> seriously the throtling is ridiculous so instead of warning you of a bad batery they take aways more than half of the cpu speed of the phone? god damn its rididulous thortling, and they dont tell you to replace the batery becuase apple itself doesnt want people replacing baterys...


iOS informs the user about battery failure in the battery section and gives extensive information on steps that need to be followed to replace it at a certified Apple store, what the menu doesn't tell you is that your phone is being throttled to give you the illusion of a functional device, it just slows down to make you think that it's time for a new iPhone because yours "can't keep up" with the modern apps, which as it turns out is in fact planned obsolescence.


----------



## Ryccardo (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm yet to see such a claim, unless I missed it. It's unjustifiable either way, battery health shouldn't cause a mandatory drop in performance, there's no legitimate reason for it.


Here https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11516113&cid=55791023 



Tomobobo said:


> Why would you want your device manufacturer to tell you how to use your device?


Freedom of choice, by definition, must include the option to have less freedom


----------



## pedro702 (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> iOS informs the user about battery failure in the battery section and gives extensive information on steps that need to be followed to replace it at a certified Apple store, what the menu doesn't tell you is that your phone is being throttled to give you the illusion of a functional device, it just slows down to make you think that it's time for a new iPhone because yours "can't keep up" with the modern apps, which as it turns out is in fact planned obsolescence.


i mean one thing is to take like 20 max 30% of cpu speed but taking more than 50% is ridiculous lol.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Nyteshade714 said:


> The main reason why this is not acceptable on any level is that, if you look closely at Apple's lame excuse, they essentially admit they're throttling phones because they're installing shitty batteries that don't last as long as they should. The fact that the throttling exists is, in itself, an admission of guilt on Apple's part for equipping phones with batteries that don't last as long as they should. And the kicker is that, instead of doing the halfway decent thing and making official replacement batteries available to all of their loyal customers at a reasonable price, they tried to hide their guilt by stealing performance back from customers who've paid for it.
> 
> That's not just shady, that's super illegal.


I very much doubt that the batteries are even damaged at all, the smart battery circuit simply counts a certain amount of discharge cycles and decides that the cell has began degrading. Li-ion battery degradation has to be measured via a full charge-discharge test, the circuit operates on an assumption based on whatever measurements it took throughout everyday use. With the right parameters a Li-ion battery can withstand over a decade of use, everything depends on the charge/discharge parameters.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Apple is genuinely great at designing phones and their SoC's are unmatched in the high-end spectrum. Moreover, iOS is just a better operating system than Android, it's much closer to hardware. Unfortunately, Apple is a terrible company that squanders the ingenuity of their engineers by completely locking the platform up.


Maybe if iPhones were used for anything other than Facebook it would matter.  Apple was straight up anti-gaming for the longest time, so all that power is mostly going unused.  Pretty much any game an $800 iPhone can play, a $150 Android phone can also play.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 26, 2017)

Ryccardo said:


> Here https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11516113&cid=55791023
> 
> 
> Freedom of choice, by definition, must include the option to have less freedom


Keyword, option.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Ryccardo said:


> Here https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11516113&cid=55791023


That's fair if true, however it is encumbent on Apple to inform the users about the throttling so that they have a reason to change batteries. This has been a secret until now, presumably as a planned obsolescence measure. Nowhere in iOS does it say that an old battery will throttle the SoC, it just says that the battery should be serviced, and only if you yourself look it up in the settings. Excusing this as anything other than trying to trick people into thinking that they need a new phone when they don't is a joke. If you think the the average Joe is going to look up Apple keynotes, you're grossly everestimating the end users. All of this would've been a secret if not for a series of independent tests, Apple was grossly deceptive regarding this issue and they should be punished. When low battery mode is turned off, that means the user wants it off. There's absolutely no reason for a second low battery mode that Apple conveniently forgot to mention besides purposeful deception.


----------



## Veho (Dec 26, 2017)

"You are mistaken. Your phone did not "become" slow after the update. Your phone has always been this slow. You just don't remember it being that slow because it was so much faster than the previous models when it came out. But in comparison to our newest model it is understandably slow. It is time to consider upgrading. We have always been at war with Eastasia." 

*gets found out* 

"We only did this to protect you."


----------



## grossaffe (Dec 26, 2017)

It's clearly a ploy by Apple to force people to buy a new phone.  If they were really worried about battery life, they'd let people change their own batteries.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Veho said:


> "You are mistaken. Your phone did not "become" slow after the update. Your phone has always been this slow. You just don't remember it being that slow because it was so much faster than the previous models when it came out. But in comparison to our newest model it is understandably slow. It is time to consider upgrading. We have always been at war with Eastasia."
> 
> *gets found out*
> 
> "We only did this to protect you."


Hits the nail on the head. Absolutely despicable.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 26, 2017)

Veho said:


> "You are mistaken. Your phone did not "become" slow after the update. Your phone has always been this slow. You just don't remember it being that slow because it was so much faster than the previous models when it came out. But in comparison to our newest model it is understandably slow. It is time to consider upgrading. We have always been at war with Eastasia."
> 
> *gets found out*
> 
> "We only did this to protect you."


As soon as Apple decided to become more about the brand and the logo rather than focusing on the tech, that's when anyone with half a brain should've noped the fuck out.  That's also about the time they stopped innovating and started *taking away basic features* such as the *headphone jack.*


----------



## grossaffe (Dec 26, 2017)

Xzi said:


> As soon as Apple decided to become more about the brand and the logo rather than focusing on the tech, that's when anyone with half a brain should've noped the fuck out.  That's also about the time they stopped innovating and started *taking away basic features* such as the *headphone jack.*


I've been told that lack of headphone jack is a feature because everybody should enter the future and use bluetooth headphones.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 26, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I've been told that lack of headphone jack is a feature because everybody should enter the future and use bluetooth headphones.


Every good pair of headphones I've ordered still come with a 3.5mm cable, even if they are Bluetooth.  So basically that's a line given to charge you more for the same product.  Apple even made available an "adapter" for 3.5mm which I believe is like $35.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 26, 2017)

This poll is pointless, most people have made up their minds long before this came to light. Samsung and others have spent billions every year to convince people that Apple and its customers are the dumbest and most evil people in the world.


----------



## TVL (Dec 26, 2017)

I really dislike it. It's possible to change the battery if you have to. And that's just utter bullshit, it's planned obsolescence.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I've been told that lack of headphone jack is a feature because everybody should enter the future and use bluetooth headphones.


We're getting rid of the Home button next, the X is the first of many.
 


Xzi said:


> Every good pair of headphones I've ordered still come with a 3.5mm cable, even if they are Bluetooth.  So basically that's a line given to charge you more for the same product.  Apple even made available an "adapter" for 3.5mm which I believe is like $35.


Tune up your sarcasm detector.


----------



## grossaffe (Dec 26, 2017)

Xzi said:


> Every good pair of headphones I've ordered still come with a 3.5mm cable, even if they are Bluetooth.  So basically that's a line given to charge you more for the same product.


Stop living in the cretaceous period, you pre-neanderthal.  Headphones that require devices that use bluetooth and that require batteries are the future and everything else is obsolete and has zero benefit.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Tune up your sarcasm detector.


I had a suspicion but impossible to know for sure without the /s.


----------



## grossaffe (Dec 26, 2017)

Xzi said:


> I had a suspicion but impossible to know for sure without the /s.


I prefer a dry delivery.


----------



## mbcrazed (Dec 26, 2017)

Might get some hate for this, but I understand why it is done. HOWEVER, it should have been talked up in the update notes of iOS releases to let the consumer know. Conservation/ Consumption of battery power should be an option not something forced on you. Hopefully they lose the case, and learn from their mistakes. Only thing that can be said about it


----------



## SirNapkin1334 (Dec 26, 2017)

I don't really care, I'm not updating-my friend has an iPhone 6 and updated to iOS 10, or whatever the newest one is, and noticed _major_ performance issues, so no way I'm updating my iPhone 4.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I prefer a dry delivery.


On a more on-topic note, I looked into what Apple had to say in more detail to see if they have a legitimate excuse. They kinda do, but it's a bad excuse. Essentially they claim that the feature was implemented as a hotfix for iPhones 6/6S and SE randomly shutting down due to the power consumption exceeding the maximum discharge rate of a degraded battery. This is all well and good, they're right - lithium ion batteries lose capacity over time, however they also lose the ability to deliver energy as their internal resistance rises over time. Thing is, that's shitty design. I'm working on a battery system based on Li-ion cells right now and it's specifically designed to discharge at a maximum rate of 2.5 times the maximum power consumption. Why? Because the device shouldn't shut down due to battery degradation, consumption should never exceed discharge rate - I know this and I'm not a professional engineer. By the time my battery system degrades to that extent, it won't have much capacity to speak of anyways, so there's no danger of a "random shutdown", only a controlled one. So yeah, this was a fix introduced to solve an issue that shouldn’t have popped up in the first place. Incompetence patched up with more incompetence.


----------



## froggestspirit (Dec 26, 2017)

For apple to have such great products, its a shame that their batteries cant handle it. 
^sarcasm^

Ive never heard of other companies doing this.
^I really haven't^


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 26, 2017)

The phones shutting down shouldn't be because the battery doesn't hold as much charge as it used to. The battery in every single rechargeable electronic device ever slightly degrades over time. You don't see, for example, Nintendo lowering clock speeds on the 3DS because "the battery is old". If phones shutting off really was an issue, I hadn't heard of this prior, lowering the clock speed really is just a lucky fix for Apple.

They've been slowing down devices since the beginning, its painfully obvious when I turn on my old Gen 1 iPad and iPhone 4 and things are painfully slow and even system apps crash a lot.

Don't buy Apple products, they're not even that good when they work as intended.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 26, 2017)

Robfozz said:


> The phones shutting down shouldn't be because the battery doesn't hold as much charge as it used to. The battery in every single rechargeable electronic device ever slightly degrades over time. You don't see, for example, Nintendo lowering clock speeds on the 3DS because "the battery is old". If phones shutting off really was an issue, I hadn't heard of this prior, lowering the clock speed really is just a lucky fix for Apple.
> 
> They've been slowing down devices since the beginning, its painfully obvious when I turn on my old Gen 1 iPad and iPhone 4 and things are painfully slow and even system apps crash a lot.
> 
> Don't buy Apple products, they're not even that good when they work as intended.


Faulty batteries and battery readings are an issue. My brother had a problem with his Note 4. It would shut off after allegedly reading ~50%.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Faulty batteries and battery readings are an issue. My brother had a problem with his Note 4. It would shut off after allegedly reading ~50%.


It's rarely a faulty reading, the phone just demanded more power than the battery was able to deliver, so it shut down. It's a standard safety measure to prevent overdischarge which can cause permanent damage to the cell. Faulty readings only really occur on damaged batteries that survived overdischarge already and their chemistry is no longer stable.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> It's rarely a faulty reading, the phone just demanded more power than the battery was able to deliver, so it shut down. It's a standard safety measure to prevent overdischarge which can cause permanent damage to the cell. Faulty readings only really occur on damaged batteries that survived overdischarge already and their chemistry is no longer stable.


Yup. I completely misunderstood the context oh my. My bad!


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Yup. I completely misunderstood the context oh my. My bad!


It's a bit of a catch-22 situation. If you connect a battery like that to a meter, it will show nominal parameters... *until* you connect a load to it. Normally Li-ion cells have a very predictable discharge pattern - they charge to peak, usually around 4.2V, quickly discharge to nominal voltage, around 3.6V, and continue to discharge linearly until they release most of the stored energy, at which point they rapidly drop to 2.6V, the safety cut-off. Once a battery reaches that state, the battery protection kicks in and disconnects the load to protect the cell. If the cell shows nominal voltage and drops to that level randomly due to damage, the system has no idea what to do because it's unexpected behaviour.

This is a safety note to all Tempers, since no manual mentions this explicitly - never leave your Li-ion devices discharged for an extended period of time. Li-ion batteries can last for a really long time if you take good care of them, and while the self-discharge rate is very low, a discharged Li-ion cell will get damaged irreversibly if it's stored in a discharged state.


----------



## VinsCool (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> It's a bit of a catch-22 situation. If you connect a battery like that to a meter, it will show nominal parameters... *until* you connect a load to it. Normally Li-ion cells have a very predictable discharge pattern - they charge to peak, usually around 4.2V, quickly discharge to nominal voltage, around 3.6V, and continue to discharge linearly until they release most of the stored energy, at which point they rapidly drop to 2.6V, the safety cut-off. Once a battery reaches that state, the battery protection kicks in and disconnects the load to protect the cell. If the cell shows nominal voltage and drops to that level randomly due to damage, the system has no idea what to do because it's unexpected behaviour.
> 
> This is a safety note to all Tempers, since no manual mentions this explicitly - never leave your Li-ion devices discharged for an extended period of time. Li-ion batteries can last for a really long time if you take good care of them, and while the self-discharge rate is very low, a discharged Li-ion cell will get damaged irreversibly if it's stored in a discharged state.
> 
> View attachment 109363


Well crap. Now I have multiple devices stored with completely discharged battery.
Too late to come back.


----------



## SG854 (Dec 26, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Well crap. Now I have multiple devices stored with completely discharged battery.
> Too late to come back.


They mention it in instruction manuals on handheld consoles and other devices to not store it discharged.


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## VinsCool (Dec 26, 2017)

SG854 said:


> They mention it in instruction manuals on handheld consoles and other devices to not store it discharged.


Let's be honest, who ever reads instruction manuals? 

Actually I have read them, but I could swear on my sister's head I didn't remember seeing any battery warning.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Well crap. Now I have multiple devices stored with completely discharged battery. Too late to come back.


If the battery hasn't dropped below 2.6V much, it can be recovered if it's charged "gently", modern smart devices call this a "pre-charge", "pre-conditioning", or in the cases of deep (over)discharge, "reconditioning". This process minimises the risk of permanent capacity loss by limiting charge current in the initial charging stage. Charge them without actually turning the device on, there's hope, battery circuits are pretty smart these days.


SG854 said:


> They mention it in instruction manuals on handheld consoles and other devices to not store it discharged.


Normally they just say to charge the device as soon as possible, they never explain why. The battery chemistry is a mystery to most users even though it's technically an explosive device that you keep in your pocket. I'm yet to see a device that has a storage mode too, since batteries feel most comfortable when stored at nominal voltage, not peak which they normally charge to. A storage mode would be pretty great, but at the end of the day, storing at peak is still better than storing flat.


----------



## swabbo (Dec 26, 2017)

The secret is to stay on a firmware and cross your fingers and wait for a jailbreak, I've got a 64GB iPhone SE on 9.3.2, happily jailbroken with no slowdowns because I'm on a relatively stable firmware


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## SG854 (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> If the battery hasn't dropped below 2.6V much, it can be recovered if it's charged "gently", modern smart devices call this a "pre-charge", "pre-conditioning", or in the cases of deep discharge "reconditioning". This process minimises the risk of permanent capacity loss by limiting charge current in the initial charging stage. Charge them without actually turning the device on, there's hope, battery circuits are pretty smart these days.
> Normally they just say to charge the device as soon as possible, they never explain why. The battery chemistry is a mystery to most users even though it's technically an explosive device that you keep in your pocket. I'm yet to see a device that has a storage mode too, since batteries feel most comfortable when stored at nominal voltage, not peak which they normally charge to. A storage mode would be pretty great, but at the end of the day, storing at peak is still better than storing flat.


Well I read some that says charge it every few months to prevent battery damage.

I think they purposely don't give an explanation because people bitch and complain if the words becomes to complicate to them. 
They want laymen's terms text. Charge or Damage.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 26, 2017)

SG854 said:


> Well I read some that says charge it every few months to prevent battery damage.
> 
> I think they purposely don't give an explanation because people bitch and complain if the words becomes to complicate to them.
> They want laymen's terms text. Charge or Damage.


At that point you're wasting cycles, Li-ion batteries have extremely low self-discharge rates and shouldn't require "topping up" very often. According to Battery University, your average Li-ion battery will self-discharge 5% in the first 24 hours (peak down to nominal), followed by 1-2% per month, plus whatever the consumption of the protection circuit is, which they suggest is 3% for an average cell. If we take these parameters, a fully charged cell will fully discharge after 19-23 months of storage, and that's a pretty conservative value in my opinion. That's nearly two years of no servicing at all. You are right though, certain details can be omitted since anything science-y tends to scare/bore people, but the bare minimum should be there. The technology is pretty fragile and requires care for optimal performance.


----------



## grossaffe (Dec 26, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Let's be honest, who ever reads instruction manuals?


I miss the days when games would come with instruction manuals.  The smell of a freshly opened manual... reading it in the car on the way home from the store... such sad times we live in now.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 26, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> At that point you're wasting cycles, Li-ion batteries have extremely low self-discharge rates and shouldn't require "topping up" very often.


Self discharge is one thing, quiescent current is another and that can lead to timeframes of a few months, especially if "power off" is in reality more "slightly more hardcore sleep mode" and you chuck in some low temperatures (box in the shed/garage/attic sort of thing). Obviously this can vary dramatically by device though.


----------



## VinsCool (Dec 26, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I miss the days when games would come with instruction manuals.  The smell of a freshly opened manual... reading it in the car on the way home from the store... such sad times we live in now.


I know that feel so well.
I miss those.


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## DSAndi (Dec 26, 2017)

Well deserved to people that still buy this overpriced junk. The sad thing is, they still buy it.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 27, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Self discharge is one thing, quiescent current is another and that can lead to timeframes of a few months, especially if "power off" is in reality more "slightly more hardcore sleep mode" and you chuck in some low temperatures (box in the shed/garage/attic sort of thing). Obviously this can vary dramatically by device though.


That's where the 3% comes from - the battery protection circuit. With no protection circuit at all there's no quiescent current and you're left with 1-2% self-discharge. Whatever the device draws in standby is minimal, but yeah, it obviously further decreases shelf life. I don't think it's by much though - 3% is pretty generous.


----------



## gamefan5 (Dec 27, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> It's a bit of a catch-22 situation. If you connect a battery like that to a meter, it will show nominal parameters... *until* you connect a load to it. Normally Li-ion cells have a very predictable discharge pattern - they charge to peak, usually around 4.2V, quickly discharge to nominal voltage, around 3.6V, and continue to discharge linearly until they release most of the stored energy, at which point they rapidly drop to 2.6V, the safety cut-off. Once a battery reaches that state, the battery protection kicks in and disconnects the load to protect the cell. If the cell shows nominal voltage and drops to that level randomly due to damage, the system has no idea what to do because it's unexpected behaviour.
> 
> This is a safety note to all Tempers, since no manual mentions this explicitly - never leave your Li-ion devices discharged for an extended period of time. Li-ion batteries can last for a really long time if you take good care of them, and while the self-discharge rate is very low, a discharged Li-ion cell will get damaged irreversibly if it's stored in a discharged state.
> 
> View attachment 109363


Is taking out the battery safer? In xase it has a removable battery?


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## FAST6191 (Dec 27, 2017)

That's fine for my drill, phones do like their SRAM settings, onboard clocks, some kind of remote wipe/security protocol and while it is more user problem if they continue to stick proper turn it off modes behind a more complex UI and the basic "turn it off" does something short of that then it ends up at threshold before too long.

Edit. On taking out the battery. If you are sure you won't lose it then it is not a bad plan, and if it does go all puffy then hopefully it will have some space to do it into rather than deforming its housing.
Depending upon the model Apple batteries are not always so bad to remove, or at least unplug which is effectively the same thing, either. Something like an iphone4 which is the backplate screws and an internal screwed connector right there, rather than some of the laptops which are potentially... a bit more fun.
At the same time if someone said it was overkill I don't know how strong an argument I could make for against it for most people under normal circumstances.
If it is a tool with simple to remove batteries then absolutely.


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 27, 2017)

It is still wrong and it is not my opinion. It is an ABSOLUTELY 100 PERCENT FACT! ITS WRONG!


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## Foxi4 (Dec 27, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> Is taking out the battery safer? In xase it has a removable battery?


Not a whole lot of difference in my opinion as long as the battery is at room temperature. Fast is right, phones do run basic hardware from the battery, however the current is really minimal and simply checking the device every now and then should be sufficient. We're talking about mere miliamps here, it's really no big deal. A battery won't "puff up" unless it rapidly discharges due to an internal short (unlikely to occur during storage unless it goes into extremely deep discharge and the copper ions start forming large dendrites which pierce separators, it's very rare), gets overcharged (beyond peak) or charged too quickly (high current). The first situation is extreme and, fortunately, at that stage the battery doesn't store much energy anyways, so it's unlikely to become volatile unless you charge it, the latter two situations should be prevented by the protection circuit and are only applicable to charging. Not only that, a battery is required to keep all data saved on volatile memory, removing it is counterproductive. In fact, I would suggest not to remove any pouch-style batteries at all as they're normally affixed with adhesives and it's very easy to bend or puncture them - you don't want to do that, it's just not safe. If it's easy to remove and designed to be removable, go nuts as long as you can guarantee that the battery terminals won't be shorted in storage, although smart batteries do have short-circuit protection measures.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 27, 2017)

To be honest, i think the poll intends well but imho misses the root cause of the problem. If the phone really preserves an old battery, then it in itself makes rational sense*. It's the action in combination with the lack of simple battery replacement (shouldn't there be a standard for these things? Hundreds of devices use standard batteries but none go flakey if i use an AA battery i already recharged since the nineties.). The fact that this option was hidden also makes the total outcome unethical.


*But... Does it really? Slowing down the phone doesn't make much sense to preserve the battery in the long run if the _tasks_ remain the same. Meaning: if it runs 10% slower on any given task, isn't that them counteracted by that task taking longer to finish? 



froggestspirit said:


> Ive never heard of other companies doing this.
> ^I really haven't^


Not exactly alike, but try getting a 5+ year old hp printer to work.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Dec 27, 2017)

You are all so entitled! How else is poor old Apple supposed to move their next annual phone with marginally better specs? Did you expect to be able to use the hardware you paid $500-$1000 for the way you wanted to? You should be grateful Apple even granted you the opportunity to rent the phone from them! 

Using the same model iPhone for more than a year? Might as well be piracy!


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## FAST6191 (Dec 27, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> It's the action in combination with the lack of simple battery replacement (shouldn't there be a standard for these things?
> ...
> Slowing down the phone doesn't make much sense to preserve the battery in the long run if the tasks remain the same. Meaning: if it runs 10% slower on any given task, isn't that them counteracted by that task taking longer to finish?


Ignoring https://xkcd.com/927/ then batteries right now are moving at a fast enough pace* that you would either over constrain them or make it weak enough to be useless. You might also risk the USB problem -- you can buy in a FTDI chip for basic USB comms and similar such things but to actually make a legit USB device takes quite a bit of effort. Going further I can have a nice cell monitor in my charger and charge regulators in my devices and the cells themselves can be dumb as a rock, though at the same time having said regulation on the cell is also good. I am happy for regulation such that they avoid their best Arthur Brown impression but this sort of thing gets tricky at this point in time.

*a laughable notion if you go by energy density, energy volume and cost, go for the problems it considerably lessens (charging is faster, chance of puffiness is less, lifetime can be better if handled properly, conditions they can handle are greater, max output current is greater and so on) and that is a different matter. Also as mentioned the ecosystem is also better -- I can buy a wonderful charge controller to handle all aspects of charging and recovery for next to nothing today, something that even half the functionality of would have either had to be hand built 10 years ago or cost the earth.

As for the other thing there are two concepts at play

When batteries get old their internal resistance, something people can be a bit hazy on but basically discharged cells often end up so full of reacted chemical that the electrons still have to navigate that the cell itself provides significant resistance in the circuit (electrons full of energy don't magically appear the metal pads after all) and as V=IR and R in series is R1+R2+R3... you can then lack the necessary current to do anything (if R1 is your battery's resistance which is high and V is reasonably fixed** then basic algebra tells you that you aren't going to have much I). Current draw is not always proportional to clock speed either and lower clocks can lower the power requirements considerably for what appears a more modest clock drop. On the other hand many devices already operate within that curve and the drop may have to be something more significant to achieve still notable gains.

**Foxi4 already started on loaded vs unloaded voltage and voltage as things discharge on a previous page. It goes a bit further as the current you try to draw may also change the voltage it can kick out, more draw, lower voltage being the model. For a battery on the way out this is even more significant. As your batteries already operate not so far about the necessary voltage (seen many chips that run on much less than 3V lately?) this becomes even more troubling.

As you and many others said though this is not that it is there but that it was not so much as mentioned that is the problem.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 27, 2017)

I feel that throttling down your phone to save performance makes sense, but Apple should have been more transparent about it. At least give users an option to throttle down performance or disable it if they so wish. 

This whole fiasco all stems down to Apple's signature lack of transparency with its consumers. People have a right to know what's going on with their devices, and why it's happening. We should be the ones making decisions about our tech, not the company.


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Dec 27, 2017)

I still stand behind my stance that it's not okay. Maybe if users could choose it, it would be fine but of course they won't be able to because it's was easier for them to let people think they needed to buy a new iPhone (because most people aren't going to think it's being slowed because of a battery).

Let's also remember that the iPhone 7 is about a year old. I really doubt that within a one year time frame people's batteries are going to shit unless Apple is using incredibly low quality batteries. Yeah, batteries deteriorate and the more you charge it the less life it has left, but I've had Android phones for years at a time without seeing decreased battery performance.


----------



## ov3rkill (Dec 27, 2017)

Deep inside we already know they're doing this. Now that they're transparent about it, it totally sucks without giving an option and crippling the capabilities of older phones. Batteries my ass, it's cheap to replace them. It's a hundred time expensive to buy a new smartphone especially if you jumped on the bandwagon of flagships. They should've been transparent in the first place.


----------



## xdarkx (Dec 27, 2017)

Apple (or any companies for that matter) should be giving their customers the self throttle option or at least let them know a head of time the new update will throttle the phone.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 27, 2017)

xdarkx said:


> Apple (or any companies for that matter) should be giving their customers the self throttle option or at least let them know a head of time the new update will throttle the phone.


I'm totally fine with self-throttling as long as it's transparent, optional and well-explained. We already have that, it's called a "balanced power plan".


----------



## Taleweaver (Dec 27, 2017)

Veho said:


> "You are mistaken. Your phone did not "become" slow after the update. Your phone has always been this slow. You just don't remember it being that slow because it was so much faster than the previous models when it came out. But in comparison to our newest model it is understandably slow. It is time to consider upgrading. We have always been at war with Eastasia."
> 
> *gets found out*
> 
> "We only did this to protect you."


Yeah...as much as the switch away from fossil fuels is needed, I fear that this is the sort of shenanigans we'll encounter in the future:

*Tech:* apple iCar support, how may I help you? 
*User:* hi...I'm calling because for some reason my iCar won't go as fast as it used to.
*Tech:* and which revision of the iCar are we talking about? 
*User:* the "alot" model, first generation. And yes, I've updated its firmware and restarted it, so that's not the issue.
*Tech:* ah, I see. That's a common misconception. Sir: your car is just as fast as it used to. But with all the newer models coming out, it only seems slower in comparison. 
*User:* erm...no? I used to be able to run 80 miles per hour easily, but now I only manage to get 75-77 at the most.
*Tech:* but it still drives correctly, doesn't it? It's all fine. 
*User: *you as well? What is it with you techs? look...I'm calling to get this speed limitation fixed. It's an issue. It wasn't prevalent earlier. It is now. It shouldn't be doing that. Can you make sure that this doesn't happen again?
*Tech: *sure thing. I've got it noted. Just send it in to our unknown location, and you'll get it back after an unknown period of time. 
*User: *o...what? okay. Thanks. This is already more service than I anticipated after four hours.  

<insert some time inbetween>

*Tech: *apple iCar support, how may I help you? 
*User: *erm, yeah...this is a weird problem. I got back my car after a long and costly repair, but the problem is still there. In fact, it's worse.

<insert looking up tech details>

*Tech: *I don't see what's wrong, sir. We applied the fix you requested. Doesn't it show you driving at 80 miles per hour? 
*User: *well...yes and no. Now when I'm driving at top speed, the iCar claims I'm doing 80, but my gps (as well as tests with other cars) show that I'm actually doing between 72 and 74.
*Tech: *okay. 
*User: *...
*Tech: *...
*User: *...what do you mean "okay"? I wanted my iCar to go faster, not commit fraud with the speed display!
*Tech: *I'm afraid that won't be possible, sir. The problem is with the battery deteriorating. As it's used more, it can charge less power and becomes less stable. In order to maintain system stability and the safety of our users, we slowly drop the actual top speed of our models until it reaches about 5 miles per hour.
*User: *What??!!!
*Tech: *I understand that's not very fast, but your safety is very important to us.
*User: *can't you just replace the battery?
*Tech: *we can, but between you and me, it's cheaper to just get a new iCar.
*User: *what? but...how does that even make sense?
*Tech: *we're phasing out our first generation alot models, sir. The newer models have their battery safety stickers angled differently, making the battery required for your car extremely hard to come by.
*User: *but I barely used that car! How did it even deteriorate in the first place?
*Tech: *perhaps you didn't use your car to _drive_, sir, but all the firmware upgrades added enough tracking features to take full use of the battery, even if it was just standing parked motionless for the night.


----------



## xdarkx (Dec 27, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm totally fine with self-throttling as long as it's transparent, optional and well-explained. We already have that, it's called a "balanced power plan".



About your second point, I know that option is available.  Not sure if you read or heard about a few years ago, iirc, how some companies throttle the performance of their high end smartphones in some benchmark apps in order to make their smartphone look like they have better performance than other smartphones.  I haven't been keeping up with smartphone news lately, so I am not sure if companies still do this.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 27, 2017)

xdarkx said:


> About your second point, I know that option is available.  Not sure if you read or heard about a few years ago, iirc, how some companies throttle the performance of their high end smartphones in some benchmark apps in order to make their smartphone look like they have better performance than other smartphones.  I haven't been keeping up with smartphone news lately, so I am not sure if companies still do this.


Samsung used to have a hidden overclocking routine that kicked in when it detected a benchmark running, and it got them into a world of trouble. It's deceptive marketing because in a real-life situation the chip can't reach the performance it's "advertised" at. Synthetic benchmarks can't be trusted, they're not representative anyways.


----------



## Patxinco (Dec 27, 2017)

HTC has for example this:



"Extreme battery saver" for when your battery is about to die, you use it and is like having an old nokia, you can do calls, sms, calculator, and it's pretty much it.


----------



## comput3rus3r (Dec 27, 2017)

Iphone 6 with "old" battery? I'm stiil using a samsung galaxy s4 and the battery still great. not to mention that i can just buy a new battery for it for cheap if it ever goes bad. I'd like to see a poll of how many people are still using iphone 4. probably 0 since IOS purposely renders older devices useless. I have an Ipad2 (that my wife had bought before we married since i would never buy apple) that worked pretty good until i updated IOS.


----------



## whateverg1012 (Dec 27, 2017)

The real question is, how many other companies are doing this? I wouldn't be surprised if this is a common practice.


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Dec 27, 2017)

whateverg1012 said:


> The real question is, how many other companies are doing this? I wouldn't be surprised if this is a common practice.


I don't think it is. I doubt Sony does it since I've had Sony phones for a while and the batteries lasted a long time (not currently though because they took too long to release an octa-core phone, let alone a phone with 4+ GB of RAM). I doubt Samsung does it either. It's not like the Android phone manufacturers own Android either. It's owned by Google so it's a lot less likely they're trying to pull stuff like this. You can easily root Android phones anyway so you wouldn't be truly limited or forced to buy another expensive battery, because you could just root and overclock.


comput3rus3r said:


> Iphone 6 with "old" battery? I'm stiil using a samsung galaxy s4 and the battery still great. not to mention that i can just buy a new battery for it for cheap if it ever goes bad. I'd like to see a poll of how many people are still using iphone 4. probably 0 since IOS purposely renders older devices useless. I have an Ipad2 (that my wife had bought before we married since i would never buy apple) that worked pretty good until i updated IOS.


My Xperia Plays had batteries that worked well for years as well. They'd probably still work if the phones still did. Xperia Z3 worked well for the couple years I had it as well.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 27, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I miss the days when games would come with instruction manuals.  The smell of a freshly opened manual... reading it in the car on the way home from the store... such sad times we live in now.


Yeah. It was nice when going to the store to buy a game was just an excuse to get out. Buy the game, then maybe afterwards have lunch or dinner. I kinda miss those days.


----------



## froggestspirit (Dec 27, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> Not exactly alike, but try getting a 5+ year old hp printer to work.


 That's not altering the printer to make it harder/slower to run. It might be harder to have it work on newer operating systems, but if you're running it on the same OS as 5 years ago, there wont be much difference.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 27, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> Iphone 6 with "old" battery? I'm stiil using a samsung galaxy s4 and the battery still great. not to mention that i can just buy a new battery for it for cheap if it ever goes bad. I'd like to see a poll of how many people are still using iphone 4. probably 0 since IOS purposely renders older devices useless. I have an Ipad2 (that my wife had bought before we married since i would never buy apple) that worked pretty good until i updated IOS.


I dont believe you since the s4 was junk the day it came out. also the year the s4 came out is the year the 5s came out, people are still using those but im not seeing many galaxy s4s that actually are still usable. Its not all Samsung fault, qualcomm is just multiple years behind apple.


----------



## grossaffe (Dec 28, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm totally fine with self-throttling as long as it's transparent, optional and well-explained. We already have that, it's called a "balanced power plan".


I remember some years ago my brother used to underclock his old android for powersaving.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



kevin corms said:


> I dont believe you since the s4 was junk the day it came out. also the year the s4 came out is the year the 5s came out, people are still using those but im not seeing many galaxy s4s that actually are still usable. Its not all Samsung fault, qualcomm is just multiple years behind apple.


My S4 has been fine since I performed a factory reset.


----------



## Social_Outlaw (Dec 28, 2017)

Wait doesn't Android do the same when it comes to this in a sense? Upgrade the OS although there isn't enough ram and the phone CPU probably can't handle it?  Isn't that the same as throttling?


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 28, 2017)

Logan97 said:


> Wait doesn't Android do the same when it comes to this in a sense? Upgrade the OS although there isn't enough ram and the phone CPU probably can't handle it?  Isn't that the same as throttling?


Nope. That's just bad optimization.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



kevin corms said:


> I dont believe you since the s4 was junk the day it came out. also the year the s4 came out is the year the 5s came out, people are still using those but im not seeing many galaxy s4s that actually are still usable. Its not all Samsung fault, qualcomm is just multiple years behind apple.


The S4 was a solid phone. I actually miss mine.


----------



## ludex99 (Dec 28, 2017)

the main goal of Apple update, the more you update your Iphone , the performance will be poor, in that case you going to end up buying their new model (8 and X) thats whats behind their update.


----------



## Taleweaver (Dec 28, 2017)

froggestspirit said:


> That's not altering the printer to make it harder/slower to run. It might be harder to have it work on newer operating systems, but if you're running it on the same OS as 5 years ago, there wont be much difference.


Unfortunately, drivers being obnoxiously hard to find* is only half the problem. But let's suppose you've got your printer hooked up to that same OS as five years ago. Trying to print something will result in a mention that the print cartridge is empty. You might find it weird because there never was a mentioning of the cartridges being even near-empty before, but you replace them anyway (at least the stupid ID-ing of the cartridges makes some relative sense...and these cartridges are far easier to obtain than the 5+ year old printer).

...and throw away perfectly good cartridges. You see, the problem never was the cartridge ink but the chip that's on each of HP's cartridges. That doesn't just track how much ink it still has** but also its age. And that's the trap HP makes for people: they think they get a cheap printer (which they do), but HP's real profit is in the cartridges***. They're both small and costly, but that isn't as visible to people who think they'll get by with just a few prints a month. And they would...but then notice that after a half year the cartridge is empty.

TL;DR: HP treats (or treated) their cartridges in the way that apple treats their batteries: made for obsolescence. 




*the drivers aren't hosted on HP's servers anymore, but the entire infrastructure around it still is, meaning that most google searches redirect you to that page, and you'll have to go to shady sites in the hopes they don't redirect you as well
**assuming it does that in the first place...there have been mentions of technicians refilling the cartridge with the exact same ink, after which the cartridge still claims it's empty
***I've seen comparisons where the printer was literally cheaper than its cartridge


----------



## Taleweaver (Dec 28, 2017)

Memoir said:


> The S4 was a solid phone. I actually miss mine.


We have those at my job (okay, the mini version). I still have mine (2.5 years and counting). My colleagues upgraded to S5 when it became available... And within a few months there came an update after which their batteries drained a lot faster than mine (admitted: mine was about a year less old at that point).


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Dec 28, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> I dont believe you since the s4 was junk the day it came out. also the year the s4 came out is the year the 5s came out, people are still using those but im not seeing many galaxy s4s that actually are still usable. Its not all Samsung fault, qualcomm is just multiple years behind apple.


Yeah I doubt the older iPhones will be usable either. I've seen a lot better performance out of high end Android phones than iOS devices as well. iOS will probably be a bit more optimized since it only covers iPhones apps made for iOS only have to worry about a few types of hardware. But the iPhones performance isn't in another league like people seem to think. People said the same thing about Macs but a lot of resource intensive things need the same or better specs than Windows.


----------



## comput3rus3r (Dec 28, 2017)

kevin corms said:


> I dont believe you since the s4 was junk the day it came out. also the year the s4 came out is the year the 5s came out, people are still using those but im not seeing many galaxy s4s that actually are still usable. Its not all Samsung fault, qualcomm is just multiple years behind apple.


I don't care what you believe. Have a good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY SIR.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 28, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> We're getting rid of the Home button next, the X is the first of many.
> View attachment 109357


Android has been doing it for years. Software home buttons (iPhone X has an option to enable it)


----------



## comput3rus3r (Dec 28, 2017)

VinLark said:


> Android has been doing it for years. Software home buttons (iPhone X has an option to enable it)







ROFL!


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 28, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> ROFL!


Wow you really showed me


----------



## comput3rus3r (Dec 28, 2017)

VinLark said:


> Wow you really showed me


That wasn't meant to be a reply to you but saltiness tells me you own an Iphone.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 28, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> That wasn't meant to be a reply to you but saltiness tells me you own an Iphone.


I do own an iPhone, as I've stated in this thread multiple times.


----------



## AbyssalMonkey (Dec 28, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> View attachment 109462
> I don't care what you believe. Have a good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY SIR.


I'm curious why you don't update to CM/LOS for android 7.  My mako is running 5 years later, and I get to laugh at people who upgrade their phones every year because they break them.

Back on topic, I don't think it's a problem of Apple throttling it, it should definitely be an option to toggle, but Apple is a gated community, and they want to keep their appearance.  If android had a similar toggle (it might, haven't dug too deep), I might toggle it, who knows, it might solve my issue of battery being misread and shutting off when it claims it's 34% charged.

I think the larger issue is that they are just now saying that they are doing it, when they could have been silently doing it for who knows how long.  This also raises the issue about why they need to do it.  It implies that Apple is pushing their products so hard that they are literally causing them to destroy themselves.  So much for their "top tier" quality, when the phones don't display their advertised performance after a single year.


----------



## themyst (Dec 28, 2017)

Apple needed to be more transparent as to how they resolved the sudden shutdowns (I used to have an iPhone 6 Plus).  

But on the flip side, battery replacement on an iPhone isn't rocket science and inexpensive (two pentalobe screws, suction cup, pull tabs).  I did one for a friend's old iPhone 5S and it was quite simple.


----------



## Dr.Hacknik (Dec 28, 2017)

Android does similar things, but at least they give you the option to disable those features; and not hide them behind your back. 

Most people have known that Apple has done this, for years. But them admitting to it has just caused more back lash.


----------



## Ulieq (Dec 28, 2017)

They should be sued.  If they want to add a manual THROTTLE BUTTON let them, but to do it without someone's permission is disturbing.


----------



## aykay55 (Dec 28, 2017)

I have a differing opinion here. I think it is okay to throttle the performance of older devices as long as you’re open about the practice, which Apple was not. Also, being a person who has a first-batch iPhone 6s Plus on the latest iOS, the battery *sucks, SUCKS!* My phone still performs *pretty* well, I don’t see the performance throttle on my iPhone but I do see the battery life problem, and it is *really bad*. Now to be fair, I had jailbroken my device back when the Pangu semi-tethered 9.3.2 Jailbreak was released, using the app where you’d press the button, turn off the phone and wait for the notification. I updated my phone but my phone still has a ‘scar’ and I can’t open apps like Super MARIO Run or Miitomo since they have some way of figuring out my phone was tampered with. Strangely, I can open other Nintendo apps like AC: Pocket Camp and Nintendo Switch Online easily. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with throttling older phones as long as you don’t attempt to hide it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 28, 2017)

VinLark said:


> Android has been doing it for years. Software home buttons (iPhone X has an option to enable it)


Android hasn't been doing anything because Android is an operating system. Google gives a lot of freedom to hardware manufacturers, which is why some handsets implement capacitive panels, other implement onscreen buttons and then some implement hardware buttons. The difference is that you have a choice based on preference. Moreover, the death of buttons is specifically Apple's fault - it solidified a stupid standard and others followed suit. I blame the industry collectively and Apple individually for destroying productivity on the phone.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Dec 28, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> ROFL!


You're SHITTING me


----------



## comput3rus3r (Dec 28, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> You're SHITTING me


I think it's a joke but it's not far from the truth since i know somebody that has the adapter to be able to use headphones. so still ROFL


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 28, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> I think it's a joke but it's not far from the truth since i know somebody that has the adapter to be able to use headphones. so still ROFL


The phone comes with an adapter. As for the picture, it's obviously a joke.


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Dec 28, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Android hasn't been doing anything because Android is an operating system. Google gives a lot of freedom to hardware manufacturers, which is why some handsets implement capacitive panels, other implement onscreen buttons and then some implement hardware buttons. The difference is that you have a choice based on preference. Moreover, the death of buttons is specifically Apple's fault - it solidified a stupid standard and others followed suit. I blame the industry collectively and Apple individually for destroying productivity on the phone.


Software buttons are ass either way. Makes closing out of some ads near impossible.


----------



## comput3rus3r (Dec 28, 2017)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Software buttons are ass either way. Makes closing out of some ads near impossible.


I think that was their intention. Everything they change they do it in favor of profits not in favor of consumers.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 28, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> I think that was their intention. Everything they change they do it in favor of profits not in favor of consumers.


How do software buttons drive up profit?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 29, 2017)




----------



## RedBlueGreen (Dec 29, 2017)

VinLark said:


> How do software buttons drive up profit?


Well if you use ad supported apps that have those full screen timed video ads that try to go to the Google Play page or a website if anywhere on the screen is touched you can't really get out of those. You have to wait for the little x to appear, which is still questionable itself because pop ups and malware ads have had fake x buttons for years.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 29, 2017)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Well if you use ad supported apps that have those full screen timed video ads that try to go to the Google Play page or a website if anywhere on the screen is touched you can't really get out of those. You have to wait for the little x to appear, which is still questionable itself because pop ups and malware ads have had fake x buttons for years.


Yeah, but I think @comput3rus3r was talking about iPhones.


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Dec 30, 2017)

Costello said:


> View attachment 109295
> 
> Unless you have been living under a rock during the past few weeks, you probably know by now that Apple have admitted throttling overall performance for phones that have an "old" battery.
> 
> ...


i think it's ok if they are slowing it down if the battery is dying becuase if they didn't it could get unstable but the thing i don't like is you can replaces the battery yourself even theough they could put a door on it like the gba sp and im a bit of a fandroid

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Costello said:


> View attachment 109295
> 
> Unless you have been living under a rock during the past few weeks, you probably know by now that Apple have admitted throttling overall performance for phones that have an "old" battery.
> 
> ...



most iphones are hand me downs or need replacing any way becuase they break


----------



## TankedThomas (Dec 30, 2017)

It's a double-edged sword but I don't think it's inherently "bad". Apple has the choice of the default being less battery life with the same performance vs. approximately the same battery life with less performance. 
They've decided to optimise their devices for better battery life. You can always get your battery replaced, if it's that big of an issue. 
Even Android devices become rather outdated in just a few years. Most technology does these days. 
I can see why people would think of it as planned obsolescence but I think it's stupid to jump to the conclusion that it is only malicious on their part.

As for the whole Apple vs. whatever debates, I don't care. Use what you want and what suits you. Don't buy something just because of a brand name but don't be afraid to buy something because of that brand name being popular, either.
And for all the people in this thread who really seem to care about defending their platform of choice: shut up; nobody cares about your stupid opinion.


----------



## FAST6191 (Dec 30, 2017)

TCJJ said:


> It's a double-edged sword but I don't think it's inherently "bad". Apple has the choice of the default being less battery life with the same performance vs. approximately the same battery life with less performance.
> They've decided to optimise their devices for better battery life. You can always get your battery replaced, if it's that big of an issue.
> Even Android devices become rather outdated in just a few years. Most technology does these days.
> I can see why people would think of it as planned obsolescence but I think it's stupid to jump to the conclusion that it is only malicious on their part.



Had they been transparent about it then yeah we might be having a debate on engineering choices and tolerances, this however had to be dragged out of them and had no mention of it on the OS or any health/debug screens, nothing in the manuals... I would prefer a nice message on startup and an option to enable or disable it but a simple note in the user accessible options menu somewhere and a paragraph in the manual would have sufficed here.

I can't quite get to malice by way of forced obsolescence but as I said earlier the power performance of these devices is so incredibly scrutinised (the fact they even can do this is surely testament to that) that it amounts to serious incompetence if not. Some weird bug happens where due to a variety of odd settings the CPU 100%s and drains the battery faster and we point and have a little giggle, this is not that though.


----------



## TankedThomas (Dec 30, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Had they been transparent about it then yeah we might be having a debate on engineering choices and tolerances, this however had to be dragged out of them and had no mention of it on the OS or any health/debug screens, nothing in the manuals... I would prefer a nice message on startup and an option to enable or disable it but a simple note in the user accessible options menu somewhere and a paragraph in the manual would have sufficed here.
> 
> I can't quite get to malice by way of forced obsolescence but as I said earlier the power performance of these devices is so incredibly scrutinised (the fact they even can do this is surely testament to that) that it amounts to serious incompetence if not. Some weird bug happens where due to a variety of odd settings the CPU 100%s and drains the battery faster and we point and have a little giggle, this is not that though.



I don't disagree that the option would be nice and that the lack of transparency is not good but I guess that's ultimately their choice to disclose that. But maybe now that it _has_ been dragged out of them, they'll finally give us the option. I just hope this doesn't cause them to do the extreme and just make things worse for everyone in some way.

But yeah, the fact that it comes up a lot makes you question why there was never the option or at least the transparency to begin with. Maybe they just feared it would hurt their brand, with people calling it planned obsolescence when it's arguably not?


----------



## FAST6191 (Dec 30, 2017)

On their choice or not... I don't know. Offhand I am not sure what kind of regs might be have been broken here, the samsung thing from a few years back was mentioned earlier ( https://www.geek.com/apps/samsung-caught-rigging-phones-to-boost-benchmark-results-1563857/ ) and this might fall under a similar remit. This is also in a post VW world, and also all the fun going on with diesel right now ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/10573720/DPF-removal-the-facts.html just came back around). The environmental stuff seemed a bit strong at first but thinking about their "ewaste" directives (it is part of the reason for phone unlocks, and certain things with broadband routers and what have you, and most modern devices have to be able to be sent to the manufacturer for recycling) that might play here.
At the same time I am not sure of any rules that would give them a free pass here and could well find there are ones that disallow such things.

I am not sure how they could make it worse short of seeing that it entered such a mode and then permanently underclocking even if a battery is replaced that falls within tolerances.

Reasoning for it if incompetence or malice are taken off the table... people are used to batteries dying (I have had windows xp laptops saying time to replace)... I guess around that time there were some articles on batteries lasting if not forever then the useful life of the device and this plays into that.
Actually on incompetence I might be able to be believe that the furryteeth in the low level battery/performance cave did not communicate properly to the UX people and the warranty and marketing department deemed it neither flashy enough nor cool enough to mention or otherwise had it fall under "don't go looking for trouble".


----------



## MewAndKirby (Dec 31, 2017)

thats bs, if it can run fast and has an old battery, let it! dont make it so they are forced to buy a new god damn battery/ phone. good thing im and samsung user because thats ridiculous


----------



## KoalaBoy (Jan 1, 2018)

Meteor7 said:


> I might see it as both. It seems like something that _could_ be handy for phones with older batteries, but I also don't see any reason that this "feature" couldn't be something within the user's control to toggle on or off at their discretion. What I'd say is that, if this were done to my phone (or any device, really) without my consent, I'd be reasonably upset.



i second this

it makes sense from a technical standpoint but it also helps with the commercial side of things, since it forces the user to buy a new phone every year or so

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



emiicfilms said:


> *if it can run fast and has an old battery*, let it!



as far as i know, it cant


----------



## MewAndKirby (Jan 1, 2018)

AlmostBadKoala said:


> i second this
> 
> it makes sense from a technical standpoint but it also helps with the commercial side of things, since it forces the user to buy a new phone every year or so
> 
> ...


well again im a samsung user so i dont know shit


----------



## KoalaBoy (Jan 2, 2018)

emiicfilms said:


> well again im a samsung user so i dont know shit



they said something about the phone malfuctioning due to the battery being insufficient, but i can't confirm it either


----------



## Yepi69 (Jan 2, 2018)

I just replaced my iPhone 6 Plus battery and performance returned back to normal.
Seriously, its not like they're not updating the devices.

People who really have a problem about it are pratically spoiled, YOU TRY living with a smartphone whose manufacturer won't update its software anymore then come talk to me.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 3, 2018)

Yepi69 said:


> I just replaced my iPhone 6 Plus battery and performance returned back to normal.
> Seriously, its not like they're not updating the devices.
> 
> People who really have a problem about it are pratically spoiled, YOU TRY living with a smartphone whose manufacturer won't update its software anymore then come talk to me.



Someone else being lazy, malicious or incompetent does not excuse you doing the same.


----------



## Yepi69 (Jan 3, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Someone else being lazy, malicious or incompetent does not excuse you doing the same.


I fail to see the lazyness in the commited act.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 3, 2018)

Yepi69 said:


> I fail to see the lazyness in the commited act.


The or part of that means you can select one; had it been lazy, malicious _and_ incompetent then that would play. Also if we are operating under the assumption they either did it deliberately to... lightly press people into upgrades, failed to follow fairly fundamental design criteria or dropped the ball somewhere then the latter of those might fall under laziness.


----------



## KoalaBoy (Jan 3, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> *lightly* press people into upgrades



i like sarcasm


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Jan 6, 2018)

emiicfilms said:


> thats bs, if it can run fast and has an old battery, let it! dont make it so they are forced to buy a new god damn battery/ phone. good thing im and samsung user because thats ridiculous


i am a sony user


----------



## FAST6191 (Feb 1, 2019)

Update of sorts.

It seems apple is facing a variety of lawsuits from this, and their responses to most of them (several of which they have failed to get thrown out) have been creative even by American lawyer standards.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/28/apple_iphone_batteries/ for more detailed stuff.

Quoting their lawyers
"Plaintiffs are like homeowners who have let a building contractor into their homes to upgrade their kitchens, thus giving permission for the contractor to demolish and change parts of the houses."
Yes we are still talking about updates to phones that failed to disclose their nature vis a vis throttling.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Update of sorts.
> 
> It seems apple is facing a variety of lawsuits from this, and their responses to most of them (several of which they have failed to get thrown out) have been creative even by American lawyer standards.
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/28/apple_iphone_batteries/ for more detailed stuff.
> ...


To be fair, a deteriorating battery is a good reason to throttle *if* its capacity to deliver current is now insufficient to run the device at peak performance, it's better than an emergency shutdown, but they should've been transparent about it. Better yet, they should've had a margin of redundancy to account for this decrease in current capacity. A battery I designed for my current project is required to deliver 8 amps of current continuously, but the pack I built delivers a maximum of 30 because, surprise, surprise, it will deteriorate over time. This is pretty basic, they cut some corners and now have to pay for it.


----------



## codezer0 (Feb 1, 2019)

Or, y'know, make the battery able to be removed by the user without doing the electronic equivalent of open heart surgery. How 'bout that?

If Samsung made the battery in the Note 7 removable from the start, they wouldn't have had the fiasco, and the subsequent reputation, of making exploding  phones. But they continue to choose not to, to appease dumbasses with far too much money for their own good. and rather than do the ethical thing and cancel the line, they instead just repack them and sell them to India.

As long as Apple is the _fashionable_ choice, it's going to take little less than a full on ban of their products as they are, before they'll actually change the design to be more beneficial to its end users.


----------



## duwen (Feb 1, 2019)

Never. Buy. Apple. ...unless you've got more money than sense, and prefer style (objective opinion, but not my opinion of style) over substance.

They haven't been a serious contender in the tech field for almost 20 years now.


----------



## DRAGONBALLVINTAGE (Feb 1, 2019)

duwen said:


> Never. Buy. Apple. ...unless you've got more money than sense, and prefer style (objective opinion, but not my opinion of style) over substance.
> 
> They haven't been a serious contender in the tech field for almost 20 years now.


This is true justice 

r/androidmasterrace


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 1, 2019)

yet another reason to not use CRAPple

"were going to make you buy our overpriced shitty new iphones by fucking your older phones!"

absolutely pathetic and yet the sheepple still obey


----------



## pedro702 (Feb 1, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Update of sorts.
> 
> It seems apple is facing a variety of lawsuits from this, and their responses to most of them (several of which they have failed to get thrown out) have been creative even by American lawyer standards.
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/28/apple_iphone_batteries/ for more detailed stuff.
> ...


well the contract owners always ask what is okay to do and what they are allowed to o, they just dont go in the houses and bash a wall before having the land owner know about it lol.


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## kevin corms (Feb 3, 2019)

duwen said:


> Never. Buy. Apple. ...unless you've got more money than sense, and prefer style (objective opinion, but not my opinion of style) over substance.
> 
> They haven't been a serious contender in the tech field for almost 20 years now.


Yet nobody makes a phone that can compete spec wise lol. Apples socs are years ahead of anything android offers. Here are some facts https://www.androidauthority.com/why-are-apples-chips-faster-than-qualcomms-gary-explains-802738/

If you still prefer android despite the facts that’s up to you, but I think it’s time people stop lying.


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## Xzi (Feb 3, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> Yet nobody makes a phone that can compete spec wise lol. Apples socs are years ahead of anything android offers. Here are some facts https://www.androidauthority.com/why-are-apples-chips-faster-than-qualcomms-gary-explains-802738/
> 
> If you still prefer android despite the facts that’s up to you, but I think it’s time people stop lying.


The thing is that past a certain point, I don't think performance on smartphones really matters.  There's no "killer app" that requires a high-end smartphone.  Essentially anything a $1000 iPhone can do, a $150 Android phone can do.  Of course Apple is going to keep pushing high-end hardware, that's the only way they can keep overpricing their products, but at the end of the day the people who are buying iPhones are just doing it for the status symbol anyway.  I don't think their core customer base cares much about the performance, ease of use is probably the biggest draw.


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## codezer0 (Feb 3, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The thing is that past a certain point, I don't think performance on smartphones really matters.  There's no "killer app" that requires a high-end smartphone.  Essentially anything a $1000 iPhone can do, a $150 Android phone can do.  Of course Apple is going to keep pushing high-end hardware, that's the only way they can keep overpricing their products, but at the end of the day the people who are buying iPhones are just doing it for the status symbol anyway.  I don't think their core customer base cares much about the performance, ease of use is probably the biggest draw.


Not sure I would go that far back for an Android.

I've had some mainstream and basic Android phones that were horrendous for usability, and were missing features that would otherwise be expected to be there, in a second-hand one that would sell for the same price.

Case in point: Every Moto e/g phone that I've had flat out didn't even have the hardware to support Pokemon Go as an example, and had so little storage and RAM, coupled with Google's "war on the SD card" policy of refusing to allow app installs to an SD, that you'd be lucky to get even 5 apps installed before you'd be running out of space. And in the case of said Moto E/G phones, seeing them choke and force close on the game I happen to be playing on them isn't exactly what I would call _a good time_. That gap just seems to only get worse instead of better. More still, is this design philosophy of phone makers to make their phones intentionally disposable.

I just recenlty managed to build a retro level Socket A pc since I managed to scavenge a top-end Barton cpu for it for free. Conversely, the Moto X Pure Edition phone I tried to settle with at the time for compatibility and freedom to switch carriers at will didn't even survive one year before being completely unusable, entirely thanks to the miserable battery that it came supplied with. At the same time, my international Note 3 is still good as a glorified mini-tablet thanks to being able to replace the battery and flash custom ROMs to keep it on a modern enough Android build. At this point I wouldn't even touch a Samsung newer than an S6 or Note 7 thanks to their desire to make exploding phones, and the staunch refusal to eliminate the risk at the source.


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## Xzi (Feb 3, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> I've had some mainstream and basic Android phones that were horrendous for usability, and were missing features that would otherwise be expected to be there, in a second-hand one that would sell for the same price.


Yeah it just kinda depends on a number of factors.  My LG Stylo 2 was right around that $150 mark, and it does absolutely everything I need it to (including playing Pokemon Go).  Galaxy S7 you can get for about $150-$200 now too.  The market is flooded with so many options, you just have to wait a couple years after release for the price to drop drastically.  The same can't be said of iPhones, of course, which cost around the same price as a high-end custom PC.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2019)

Apple has completely abandoned their desktop and laptop users in favour of the mobile sector, which is to be expected as their iPhone business is going gangbusters. They *do* make the best SoC's while the rest of the industry only has access to what Qualcomm and NVidia design and license. There is an exception from this rule, Samsung, who design their own Exynos line, but all three major players are greatly limited by ARM's own stock designs which they mostly just license and repurpose. All three are constrained for licensing, design and monetary reasons - Apple has no such constraints because they market to people who are not bothered by the final product being overpriced. Apple will happily burn money if it means that they get to brag about a few percentage points of performance in their advantage for a few months - by that time a more mainstream chip usually beats the custom Apple model. I'm not particularly excited by any of those because I'm not a huge fan of ARM, or the current dynamics in the mobile industry.


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## duwen (Feb 4, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> Yet nobody makes a phone that can compete spec wise lol. Apples socs are years ahead of anything android offers. Here are some facts https://www.androidauthority.com/why-are-apples-chips-faster-than-qualcomms-gary-explains-802738/
> 
> If you still prefer android despite the facts that’s up to you, but I think it’s time people stop lying.



Same thing could be said of the current consoles, with the Xbox1X being the 'best' in terms of spec... would I recommend one over a PS4Pro - no chance.

I have android devices, but not my phone - I don't require anything more than a device that can make/receive phone calls and send/receive text messages... so, I have an 8yr old Nokia - which outperforms ALL android and iOS devices in terms of battery life, it will never be 'stealth-bricked' by the manufacturer, it will never be a target for thieves, and it doesn't upload any personal data or location data.


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