# Iwata: Future of dedicated gaming handhelds



## Deleted_171835 (Aug 21, 2012)

"I think that if we are able to provide experiences on handheld devices that consumers cannot get on another device, then we will continue creating software and hardware going forward, and if it comes to a point when we're not able to do that, I think, yeah, you will see portable handheld gaming devices go the way of the Dodo, I guess."



"I think a lot of this discussion is based on the premise that the *handheld gaming device market is shrinking or vanishing and I don't think that is true* and I'd like to address that,"

"As of last week, 3DS sales in Japan reached *seven million, and that's the 77th week post-launch*. If we look at DS and DS Lite which people were saying, ‘oh my gosh this thing is selling like hotcakes, it's crazy!' it reached the seven million mark at week 72. And *for the Nintendo DS that was two Christmases. For the 3DS it's only been one Christmas.* And we also had a large earthquake in Japan. And of course now there's a smartphone boom in Japan, we're right in the middle of it. [Note from Stephen: The Nintendo 3DS has sold 19 million units worldwide since launch, as of late June.

"I don't think there's not a bright future for handheld devices but I understand that the competition, again with the rise of smart devices is different, and I do recognize that.


*"I think within games you have two needs that people fill. One is the time-filler need. The other is that it's a very important time for me and I want to have a rich experience. Those are two separate needs, I think." His implication was that Nintendo handheld gaming satisfied the latter need in a way that smartphone gaming typically did not.*


I agree with Iwata. Dedicated handhelds won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Smartphones and dedicated handhelds represent two different niches with more rich experiences on the latter and quicker pick-up-and-play games on the former.

http://kotaku.com/5936557/unintimidated-by-apple-nintendos-boss-says-the-world-still-needs-dedicated-gaming-handhelds


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## Wizerzak (Aug 21, 2012)

He has a good point about time-wasting. I mean, who sits down and dedicates themselves an hour to playing doodle jump etc.?



Spoiler



inb4 someone says that they do


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## Clarky (Aug 21, 2012)

read this earlier, I do agree with what he is saying, you do wonder though how long will it be before some bright spark tries making another n-gage


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## EyeZ (Aug 21, 2012)

The first line of the first paragraph sums it up perfectly, well as i see it anyway.


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## BORTZ (Aug 21, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> He has a good point about time-wasting. I mean, who sits down and dedicates themselves an hour to playing doodle jump etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now if its one of the harder/more involved games than maybe. Like Infinity Blade or ME:Infiltrator. 
But Doodle jump? no.


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## Hadrian (Aug 21, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> Now if its one of the harder/more involved games than maybe. Like Infinity Blade or ME:Infiltrator.


Those games are just novelties that are "gee whiz look they can do that now!" but they're hardly what they are meant to be. Personally I played maybe a level or two of each for a couple of days and then abandoned them for Wheres the Water?..which I have spent hours on in one sitting because it's pretty awesome.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (Aug 21, 2012)

clarky said:


> read this earlier, I do agree with what he is saying, you do wonder though how long will it be before some bright spark tries making another n-gage


I don't think another N-Gage will come into play with the rise of smart phones, not to mention things like the N-Gage never get any 1st party support and very limited and sparse 3rd party support.


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## Clarky (Aug 21, 2012)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> clarky said:
> 
> 
> > read this earlier, I do agree with what he is saying, you do wonder though how long will it be before some bright spark tries making another n-gage
> ...



smart phone + proper controls + good games = n gage 2?

forget the name and go with that idea there. Now there is a choice between android, ios and even windows mobile the foundations to make a good mobile/handheld game device are there, i just doubt any phone manufactorer right now is interested in making "deep" games on mobiles right now


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## KingVamp (Aug 21, 2012)

The best and most balanced handheld-phone hybrids will be made by Nintendo and/or Sony.


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## GreatZimkogway (Aug 21, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> The best and most balanced handheld-phone hybrids will be made by Nintendo and/or Sony.



>Balance >Sony >No

You might want to think about just how much a true Sony handheld-phone would cost...


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## Issac (Aug 21, 2012)

clarky said:


> smart phone + proper controls + good games = n gage 2?
> 
> forget the name and go with that idea there.





KingVamp said:


> The best and most balanced handheld-phone hybrids will be made by Nintendo and/or* Sony*.



Xperia Play says Hi! (proper controls, smartphone, psx games)


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## Clarky (Aug 21, 2012)

Issac said:


> clarky said:
> 
> 
> > smart phone + proper controls + good games = n gage 2?
> ...




hardly been marketed with its own games has it? like the reason people buy into vitas or 3ds'.


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 21, 2012)

Not sure how the consumer could confuse the two different markets. Both Sony and Nintendo realize that most handheld gaming is done on the couch. Most smartphone use is done while on the go.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 21, 2012)

Dedicated handheld consoles will share the fate of dedicated PNA's, PDA's and Media Players. PDA's have been replaced by smartphones and palmphones ages ago, PNA's are becoming less and less popular and other than "mini mp3 players" such as the iPod Shuffle, Media Players have been made redundant - handheld consoles eventually will as well.

It's not that difficult to make a proper "gaming" handset - Noka attempted it with the N-Gage and would've succeeded if not for the portrait screen and the "click" buttons rather than standard handheld console buttons, the Xperia Play took it up a notch by introducing a wide screen, shoulder buttons and pseudo-analog touchpads - progress has been made design-wise.

People want their handheld devices to do "everything" - it's not hard to imagine a smarphone with full handheld console capabilities, really. There is a market for it, especially now when Multiplayer features have become so important in gaming. A smartphone offers non-stop connectivity - a handheld console? Not always.

The only limitation here is the battery life - a phone has to be turned on at all times, a console? Not necessarily. Once that boundry is out of the way... the future is bright.


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## BORTZ (Aug 21, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> BortzANATOR said:
> 
> 
> > Now if its one of the harder/more involved games than maybe. Like Infinity Blade or ME:Infiltrator.
> ...


Really? I felt like they were like playing a console game or something. I really enjoyed my time with IB and ME.


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## Rasas (Aug 21, 2012)

clarky said:


> Issac said:
> 
> 
> > clarky said:
> ...


It has some exclusives but honestly a lot of the games are just crappy ports using buttons. Just look at a GTA3 video and see the problems.


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## shakirmoledina (Aug 21, 2012)

again comes the concept of hardcore v casual v time waster. i am maybe the first but unlikely the 2nd or 3rd.  casual and time waster i think there is a difference. the former is to play and have a good time (limbo or its likes) while the latter is just to pass time when waiting for something or when u just pick up the device.


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## KingVamp (Aug 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> it's not hard to imagine a handheld console with full smartphone capabilities, really.
> 
> The only limitation here is the battery life - a phone has to be turned on at all times, a console? Not necessarily. Once that boundry is out of the way... the future is bright.


They're people working on it, I just wish they get here faster. 





BortzANATOR said:


> Really? I felt like they were like playing a console game or something. I really enjoyed my time with IB and ME.


This felt like a console game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoWmeM11FR4
VS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irz40MFYrR0

?


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## AceWarhead (Aug 21, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > it's not hard to imagine a handheld console with full smartphone capabilities, really.
> ...


What the hell, the ME game basically plays itself...


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## chavosaur (Aug 21, 2012)

I personally enjoyed the deadspace game on ios and android. It was a really great game. Felt almost like a console game.


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## BORTZ (Aug 22, 2012)

@[member='KingVamp']
I did to me. What about it?


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## LightyKD (Aug 22, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJNbMCvDbEI&feature=related

Need I say more...


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## BORTZ (Aug 22, 2012)

And how well did the Xperia do? Terrible. Sony canned the updated version and it will not be getting a 4.0 Android release.


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## LightyKD (Aug 22, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> And how well did the Xperia do? Terrible. Sony canned the updated version and it will not be getting a 4.0 Android release.



Sad that it did not do well but, considering it came after multiple PSP revisions and RIGHT before the Vita I think that most consumers just didn't want to feel like they got screwed by buying the wrong product. With that said, the Xperia Play is a perfect example of a smart gaming device done right.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> [media]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/media]
> 
> Need I say more...


Tied to an internet connection on a handheld device?



Foxi4 said:


> Dedicated handheld consoles will share the fate of dedicated PNA's, PDA's and Media Players. PDA's have been replaced by smartphones and palmphones ages ago, PNA's are becoming less and less popular and other than "mini mp3 players" such as the iPod Shuffle, Media Players have been made redundant - handheld consoles eventually will as well.
> 
> It's not that difficult to make a proper "gaming" handset - Noka attempted it with the N-Gage and would've succeeded if not for the portrait screen and the "click" buttons rather than standard handheld console buttons, the Xperia Play took it up a notch by introducing a wide screen, shoulder buttons and pseudo-analog touchpads - progress has been made design-wise.
> 
> ...


You keep saying this Foxi but handhelds and smartphones will never converge. They're simply too different for that to happen. A smartphone's design and size is too cramped for comfortable gaming (Xperia Play for instance), you can't have super large screens (like the 3DS XL and Vita), battery life is an issue and more. General consumers will be turned off by the addition of all those buttons on a phone as well.

Smartphones will always be relegated to pick-up and play games (with the exception of _some_ games like Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP) thanks to its design (with a touchscreen being the only viable input method) and meagre battery life. Dedicated handhelds are still superior for gaming and aren't showing any signs of dying anytime soon.


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## KingVamp (Aug 22, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Need I say more...


What about that lag? Online reliant? Onlive troubles/problems? Digital/Retail games? 3rd/1st party exclusives?


BortzANATOR said:


> @[member='KingVamp']
> I did to me. What about it?


That in reality it doesn't compare to a console game specially in gameplay.


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## Yumi (Aug 22, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Yes.*

It looks like it hurts playing. Why not go all out and use those 2 little empty circles and add analog or touch-analog? Unless they get sued or something.
I'm aware mentioning this could be silly but oh well.

As for death of handhelds...i doubt it. Silly predictions...although possible.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> handhelds and smartphones will never converge. They're simply too different for that to happen. A smartphone's design and size is too cramped for comfortable gaming (Xperia Play for instance), you can't have super large screens (like the 3DS XL and Vita), battery life is an issue and more. General consumers will be turned off by the addition of all those buttons on a phone as well.


I don't see why not. When you take a look at phones like the Samsung Galaxy Note (a whopping 5 inch touchscreen) or even the each subsequent Samsung Galaxy S, phones are moving to be bigger and bigger. And while poorly executed, I think the Xperia Play had the right idea with the slide-out pad.I don't see why we couldn't see nintendo and Sony partner with a known smartphone manufacturer and make an Android handset or something. The only real design issue would be the dual screens on the Nintendo DS/3DS (since, of course, removing one of the screens would absolutely kill compatibility with DS/3DS games), and this could easily be fixed in a similar method to the Kyocera Echo. Just imagine a much better (read: less cheap) build, narrower bottom screen to make room for the buttons and analog sliders, and you're good to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyocera_Echo

Also, the phone function could be optional. Consider the iPod Touch vs the iPhone for a second. I see no reason why Nintendo or Sony couldn't release 2 versions of their system: One as a full-featured smartphone gaming system, and another just as a gaming system.

That said, knowing Nintendo and their "we only make GAME systems" attitude, I doubt they'd be likely to adopt this anyway. Sony might, though.

As for the general consumers being turned off bit... well, I'm pretty sure that if Nintendo and Sony handheld fans saw a Nintendo/Sony branded FULLY FLEDGED HANDHELD GAMING smartphone, then they would jump on it. I know I would.


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## KingVamp (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> You keep saying this Foxi but handhelds and smartphones will never converge. They're simply too different for that to happen. A smartphone's design and size is too cramped for comfortable gaming (Xperia Play for instance), you can't have super large screens (like the 3DS XL and Vita), battery life is an issue and more. General consumers will be turned off by the addition of all those buttons on a phone as well.
> 
> Smartphones will always be relegated to pick-up and play games (with the exception of _some_ games like Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP) thanks to its design (with a touchscreen being the only viable input method) and meagre battery life. Dedicated handhelds are still superior for gaming and aren't showing any signs of dying anytime soon.


Why not? They chose to make it small. There are phones with big screens too.



If they market what exactly it is and do it well, then general consumers  may buy into it, along with the non-general
consumers who aren't intimidated by buttons. 

Also, the batteries are going to greatly improve at some point.

 'd

At the point of converging, it would be cheap to put them together, if not... errr they are always contracts. :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0avBTRzFmzU


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I don't see why not. When you take a look at phones like the Samsung Galaxy Note (a whopping 5 inch touchscreen) or even the each subsequent Samsung Galaxy S, phones are moving to be bigger and bigger. And while poorly executed, I think the Xperia Play had the right idea with the slide-out pad.I don't see why we couldn't see nintendo and Sony partner with a known smartphone manufacturer and make an Android handset or something. The only real design issue would be the dual screens on the Nintendo DS/3DS (since, of course, removing one of the screens would absolutely kill compatibility with DS/3DS games), and this could easily be fixed in a similar method to the Kyocera Echo. Just imagine a much better (read: less cheap) build, narrower bottom screen to make room for the buttons and analog sliders, and you're good to go.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kyocera_Echo
> 
> ...


The Galaxy Note is an exception to the rule. We aren't going to see huge 5.3" screens on every phone. Even then, have fun trying to fit a 5" screen with buttons and have it be a sleek handheld design.

Slide-out designs are horribly uncomfortable compared to layouts like the DS's and Vita's. I certainly wouldn't want to play on that for a long time.

Two models would not work as smartphones and dedicated systems serve different purposes and thus have different designs. A smartphone design wouldn't work well as a dedicated gaming system just like a dedicated system wouldn't work well as a smartphone.


And if people would _supposedly_ jump on a Nintendo/Sony branded handheld, why did the Xperia Play flop? The demographic for high-end sleek smartphones and the demographic for dedicated game systems are quite different. No 30-something with an iPhone is going to be caught dead with a Nintendo-Phone.

Not to mention you'll be abandoning the giant market of kids that buy handheld gaming systems by releasing a gaming phone.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> Slide-out designs are horribly uncomfortable compared to layouts like the DS's and Vita's. I certainly wouldn't want to play on that for a long time.


I guess I wouldn't know, since I've never really used one (except a few minutes with an Xperia Play in an AT&T store). But what about the PSP Go? I don't know many people who complained about that, and it's basically the same setup as the XPeria Play.


soulx said:


> Two models would not work as smartphones and dedicated systems serve different purposes and thus have different designs. A smartphone design wouldn't work well as a dedicated gaming system just like a dedicated system wouldn't work well as a smartphone.


Dude, the iPod Touch was quite literally an iPhone without a phone signal, data signal, and GPS antenna. There's no other real difference between the two. I don't see why the same couldn't apply to a hypothetical gaming phone (id est, "phone model" and "wi-fi model," or something like that). It's just a matter of fleshing out the OS and making powerful enough hardware, that's all.


soulx said:


> And if people would _supposedly_ jump on a Nintendo/Sony branded handheld, why did the Xperia Play flop?


You might as well be comparing the 3DS to a Diingoo. The Xperia Play was NOT a full handheld gaming device like the PSP. It was a watered down system with, as some people mentioned before, lazily ported games with button controls added, official PSX emulation, and unofficial run of the mill Android emulators for other old systems. In short, the XPeria Play was half-assed, both as a gaming system, and as a smartphone.


soulx said:


> The demographic for high-end sleek smartphones and the demographic for dedicated game systems are quite different. No 30-something with an iPhone is going to be caught dead with a Nintendo-Phone.


No offense, but I laugh whenever I hear that. I'm 22 and I have no shame about playing my 3DS in public, in the cafe, library, etc. Same applies to other friends as well. We've (mostly) past the era where it's not considered "socially acceptable" for adults to play video games.


soulx said:


> Not to mention you'll be abandoning the giant market of kids that buy handheld gaming systems by releasing a gaming phone.


As I mentioned, there could be phone and non-phone models.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The iPod Touch was also not a dedicated gaming device. It didn't matter if it was a stripped down iPhone because the design still served its purpose well (whatever the hell that _purpose_ was, music playing?).


The Xperia Play is as close as it gets to a convergence between phones and dedicated handhelds and fits your description of a "Sony branded phone". Lazy ports are the fault of the dev (and who can blame them for not putting effort into a device that's selling like crap and does everything that other Android phones can already do?).

Regardless of what you consider to be socially acceptable, most will not carry a device designed for gaming and use it as a phone. Unless it has a shitty slider design, generally it will be large, clunky and simply unappealing (like the NGage). If you have the choice between a slick iPhone 5 and a Nintendo/Sony phone with tons of buttons, most will choose the former.


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## CrimzonEyed (Aug 22, 2012)

You simply don't mix wine and beer.


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## chris888222 (Aug 22, 2012)

No matter what, there will be differences between mobile phones and handhelds. The handheld dimension will stay for awhile.


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## Rasas (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> snip


Aren't they just going after a niche market anyway. Some people don't need long games at any rate so they rather go for a smartphone and I don't think the technology is quite there yet with battery life.The Xperia Play had excellent standby battery life but everything else wasn't to great then Vita on the other hand has terrible battery life with Skype.


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## Gahars (Aug 22, 2012)

> "_I don't think there's not a bright future for handheld devices_ but I understand that the competition, again with the rise of smart devices is different, and I do recognize that."



Ah, Iwata, why do you have to be so double negative?


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

Gahars said:


> > "_I don't think there's not a bright future for handheld devices_ but I understand that the competition, again with the rise of smart devices is different, and I do recognize that."
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, Iwata, why do you have to be so double negative?


Translation error, I guess.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> The iPod Touch was also not a dedicated gaming device. It didn't matter if it was a stripped down iPhone because the design still served its purpose well (whatever the hell that _purpose_ was, music playing?).


The iPod Touch did everything the iPhone did, except calling, texting, and GPS navigation. It just required wi-fi for online capabilities, that's all. I know the iTouch/iPhone isn't a dedicated gaming device, but that's besides the point. I was just using it as an example of a smart device that can function just as well both with and without phone capabilities, the same way a potential "smart gaming device" could work both with and without phone capabilities as well.


soulx said:


> The Xperia Play is as close as it gets to a convergence between phones and dedicated handhelds and fits your description of a "Sony branded phone". Lazy ports are the fault of the dev (and who can blame them for not putting effort into a device that's selling like crap and does everything that other Android phones can already do?).


In my previous post, I specifically said "fully fledged handheld gaming smartphone." The XPeria Play was NOT a fully fledged gaming device in any way. If it was a PSP with smartphone capabilities released earlier during the PSP's era, then that would be different. But no, it was a watered down gaming device that Sony gave no attention to (this promised supposed "playstation suite" deal STILL hasn't come out even though the XPlay has been out for a year and a half).

And you can make the same argument about bad games being "the devs' fault" regarding consoles and dedicated gaming handhelds. Hell, wasn't the video game crash in the 80s CAUSED by an oversaturated market and no quality control? Sony and Nintendo could make just as much quality control on a smartphone gaming device as with any other gaming platform. Adding the ability to make calls and text messages and advanced smart device capabilities does NOT magically mean that it can't have the same quality control and gaming capabilities of a modern dedicated gaming handheld. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous, in my opinion.



soulx said:


> Regardless of what you consider to be socially acceptable, most will not carry a device designed for gaming and use it as a phone. Unless it has a shitty slider design, generally it will be large, clunky and simply unappealing (like the NGage). If you have the choice between a slick iPhone 5 and a Nintendo/Sony phone with tons of buttons, most will choose the former.


Considering how there have only been 2 half-assed gaming smartphones that have been released mainstream (the N-Gage and the XPeria Play), I think it's a stretch to factually claim that "most" will choose an iPhone 5 over a gaming handheld with "tons of buttons." That said, I don't have any real disagreements with your last bit. I'm not saying that a dedicated gaming smartphone would be for-sure successful, just that there's really no room to claim the opposite, either.


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## KingVamp (Aug 22, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> As I mentioned, there could be phone and non-phone models.


That what the vita 3g should have been.


soulx said:


> Regardless of what you consider to be socially acceptable, most will not carry a device designed for gaming and use it as a phone. Unless it has a shitty slider design, generally it will be large, clunky and simply unappealing (like the NGage). If you have the choice between a slick iPhone 5 and a Nintendo/Sony phone with tons of buttons, most will choose the former.


So, we should let insecure people keep us from going forward? I pretty sure a lot of new things would be hold back with such an ideal. You acting like people who have phones automatically don't carry handhelds. How is the slider design less comfortable than the clam design? (I'm seriously asking.) So, you are saying if the iPhone had a pull out buttons, people would suddenly stop buying them? So a "slick" Nintendo/Sony handheld with full phone functions just isn't going to work,not even a chance in the somewhat far future?




Ahhh!!! Buttons!!! Head for the hills.


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## Walker D (Aug 22, 2012)

The first phone+game handheld that manage to have full shoulder buttons (L1_L2 , R1_R2) without getting extremely bulky and uncomfortable, will win me forever.

Even the wiiU gamepad can be considered a early form of this design


Well, I can dream


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## Psionic Roshambo (Aug 22, 2012)

People have been predicting the end of PC gaming for years... I don't really see portable game systems dying out any time soon. 

I honestly don't even think the market will shrink any for Nintendo, judging by how the 3DS is out selling the DS early on, it looks like the market is actually growing.


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## relminator (Aug 22, 2012)

Issac said:


> clarky said:
> 
> 
> > smart phone + proper controls + good games = n gage 2?
> ...



Yet, no one seems to buy it.  In fact the only xperia play I've seen was from a friend whom I told to buy the xperia instead of the Galaxy.  So that number doesn't even count since he wanted to buy a galaxy.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> The Galaxy Note is an exception to the rule. We aren't going to see huge 5.3" screens on every phone. Even then, have fun trying to fit a 5" screen with buttons and have it be a sleek handheld design.


Y'see, now you're grabbing straws. I'm talking about adding proper gaming functionality to *1* phone, for example from Sony, and in Nintendo's case, adding phone functionality to the console. You're talking about a full switch - that's not going to happen indeed as not everyone wants a gaming phone, but it doesn't automatically mean that there will be *no* dedicated gaming phones.


> Slide-out designs are horribly uncomfortable compared to layouts like the DS's and Vita's. I certainly wouldn't want to play on that for a long time.


What's wrong with using clamshell designs then?


> Two models would not work as smartphones and dedicated systems serve different purposes and thus have different designs. A smartphone design wouldn't work well as a dedicated gaming system just like a dedicated system wouldn't work well as a smartphone.


What's so difficult in adding a D-Pad and analog stick on one side and function buttons plus additional stick if needs be on the other while keeping the numeric and qwerty keyboards screen-based?


> And if people would _supposedly_ jump on a Nintendo/Sony branded handheld, why did the Xperia Play flop? The demographic for high-end sleek smartphones and the demographic for dedicated game systems are quite different. No 30-something with an iPhone is going to be caught dead with a Nintendo-Phone.


It just didn't have enough third-party support to go really big - it was still a phone, not a "gaming phone". It was never a flagship product like the Vita or the 3DS are. That could and most likely will change in the future.


> Not to mention you'll be abandoning the giant market of kids that buy handheld gaming systems by releasing a gaming phone.


Because kids don't use phones, right?


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

The iPhone->iPod Touch comparison doesn't work. Dedicated gaming devices and phones are quite different with the former necessitiating a comfortable design to hold and lots of buttons and the latter needing a good battery life. The iPod Touch didn't need a change design-wise from the iPhone to serve its purpose.

To go over why phones and dedicated handhelds will never converge, at least not anytime soon.
- *Battery life*, gaming on your smartphone will kill the battery very quickly.
- *Design*, smartphones generally have a very slick slim design with touchscreens being the only visible element. Adding all those buttons and triggers will ruin that.
- *Comfort*, enjoy cramped controls unless you want a device larger than the 3DS XL.

And the video game crash of 1983 isn't exactly relevant in this discussion.

I can say that an iPhone 5 would be more popular by looking at how the N-Gage and Xperia Play sold as well as their shortcomings. Part of the reason the iPhone is so popular is because of its sleek minimalistic design (and you know how the Apple crowd cares about their _image_). Adding tons of buttons will ruin that.



Rasas said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...


That's true. I doubt many would even buy a _proper_ gaming phone if one was released.



KingVamp said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...It's not about insecure people.

If the iPhone had a slider design, then people _would_ stop buying them, what is this, the 90s? The current trend for phones are sleek minimalist designs with the screen being the only visible part.

Have you ever used a slider phone? Use one and you'll realize how uncomfortable one can be for longterm gaming.

Vita 3G would be a horrid phone. Shit battery life and the design doesn't work too well as a phone (try putting that to your head).



Foxi4 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Clamshell phones are generally pretty slim so they fit well with your head. The DS design on the other hand wouldn't fit so well.

Try putting a Vita or PSP to your head to see how well that design will work. Buttons to the side aren't a good idea.


Not all parents will be happy to get their kid a Nintendo/Sony phone tied to a 3 year contract having to pay a fee each month.


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## chavosaur (Aug 22, 2012)

Does a gaming phone HAVE to have buttons? Whose to say that a dedicated gaming phone HAS to have a slider? Dont get me wrong, i understand that gamers like to have buttons and such on a gaming device, but what if sony/nintendo created a phone, completely slim, touchscreen only with maybe volume and shoulder buttons only (or maybe the shoulder buttons are also volume buttons,) and it packs enough power and battery to be both a phone and a gaming handheld?


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## Chaosruler (Aug 22, 2012)

chavosaur said:


> Does a gaming phone HAVE to have buttons? Whose to say that a dedicated gaming phone HAS to have a slider? Dont get me wrong, i understand that gamers like to have buttons and such on a gaming device, but what if sony/nintendo created a phone, completely slim, touchscreen only with maybe volume and shoulder buttons only (or maybe the shoulder buttons are also volume buttons,) and it packs enough power and battery to be both a phone and a gaming handheld?


It would fail...

Now imagine a nintendo interview releasing a software part allowing 3DS to voice\video communicate like cellphones(smartphone) does? imagine there's a battery lifetime solution for a long-term standby and gaming for a whole day... and actually there is but it's too expansive... the 3DS already base itself in the idea of standby-closed but still active device being in your pocket gathering streespass and spotpass data, adding the capabilities of a smartphone to the Nintendo handlehands is up to technology, it WILL happen, maybe even a ported part to run .apk files, such as PlayStation Suite, will it replace the iPhone 5\6\7? no, but it WILL coexist, because us idiots will support Nintendo and buy that product and see it comfortable ringing out of our pocket and simply opening the device and talk to it's screen as we audio-chat on games, it won't stop the appletards to support apple by buying more iProducts, you can say it will not have much of a difference except of evolving, the smartphones gaining more "video gaming" part to them while handlehand video gaming will gain more "smartphone" part to them... such as it is today...

BTW: Smartphone CPU is designed to take small voltage for a long while and to be "jumped" into required frequency to save battery lifetime ("Governor" on some android terms) while handlehand video gaming's CPU even if it is still ARM, similar to Smartphone's CPU, while handing the same governor lets Nintendo to obtain "modes", GBA mode on NDS, NDS mode on NDS, NDSL mode on 3DS, GBC mode on GBA, GB mode on GBC... it's a different hardware but this issue can be resolved with the next advance of battery lifetime, which should be here because of the request, and if it isn't here yet we will evolve next generation to smart gaming device


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## Foxi4 (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> Clamshell phones are generally pretty slim so they fit well with your head. The DS design on the other hand wouldn't fit so well.
> 
> Try putting a Vita or PSP to your head to see how well that design will work. Buttons to the side aren't a good idea.
> 
> ...


You don't need any extra buttons on the already existing handheld console designs - you can use the touchscreen to the same effect. As for monthly payments, I see that you haven't heard of pre-paid SIM cards yet. 

If handheld consoles are practical enough to be, you know, _handheld_,I don't see how adding phone functionality to the existing design would change anything.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Clamshell phones are generally pretty slim so they fit well with your head. The DS design on the other hand wouldn't fit so well.
> ...


Pre-paid SIM cards are still an extra cost and are more cumbersome than simply buying a portable. And then you have the whole hassle of finding an unlocked one which is likely more expensive because it isn't subsidized with the contract.


You don't put handheld consoles up to your head, that's the difference.

You really don't see how impractical holding this near your head would be?


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## Rasas (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> snip


You could just use a headset and some companies don't offer a very bad program like 1000 minutes for $100 that last a year. So you could have a basic phone model(for people that just want to make calls and children for emergencies), smartphone model(for people who want to play online anywhere and want greater app support) and the hardcore gaming device(for people who just want a dedicated gaming device). Can we just agree the technology isn't there yet to make a compact and long lasting device of this nature?


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 22, 2012)

Rasas said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...


De-facto mandatory headset? Not very practical.


The technology most definitely isn't there (battery life). Design-wise, I don't think we'll ever see a comfortable good dedicated gaming phone. The slider design is the only feasible one and that's horribly uncomfortable.

Everyone keeps claiming it's the natural evolution of handhelds but haven't given any reasons why. The handheld market seems fine even with the advent of smartphones.


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## KingVamp (Aug 22, 2012)

soulx said:


> It's not about insecure people.
> 
> If the iPhone had a slider design, then people _would_ stop buying them, what is this, the 90s? The current trend for phones are sleek minimalist designs with the screen being the only visible part.
> 
> Have you ever used a slider phone? Use one and you'll realize how uncomfortable one can be for longterm gaming.


Except not everyone follow trends. Why should trends decide what technology can come out anyway? It's more the other way around. This hybrid can become the trend.  Plus people still use pull out keyboards.

After I think about it, yes. I use to play emulators on my BlackBerry I had in the very past. I don't remember having a problem.



soulx said:


> De-facto mandatory headset? Not very practical.
> 
> 
> The technology most definitely isn't there (battery life). Design-wise, I don't think we'll ever see a comfortable good dedicated gaming phone. The slider design is the only feasible one and that's horribly uncomfortable.
> ...





Doesn't that phone slide into a Pseudo-clam design ie "PC mode"?

Because tech getting cheaper and greater and people like to merge technology ie smart phone?


I believe someone is going make a success smart handheld someday.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 23, 2012)

I guess in the end we're going to have to agree to disagree, but my problem with your stance Soulx is that, from my perspective, you're basing EVERYTHING only on the modern situation of things, and not on the future (which is what I'm talking about, I'm not saying a dedicated triple A gaming smartphone is going to come out in the next year or anything). Id est, "battery life is terrible," but of course it will inevitably get better as time goes on and technology improves. remember, before the smartphone era, it was considered "decent" battery life if your phone lasted multiple days without charging. But in the era of smartphones, getting 12 hours is considered "good" battery life.

That said, I don't see why it would be far-fetched to have a gaming smartphone with typical smartphone battery life, except when in "gaming mode." But regardless, point is, technology will get to a point where battery life will be much stronger.

As for your comments about sliders on phones... to each their own. After my first flip phone, every single one of my phones has had a slideout keyboard, and I know many who feel the same way about them. I'm going to miss keyboards when my upgrade comes though, since manufacturers are quickly moving away from sliders.

Anyway, yeah. Long story short, I think you're viewing ONLY the current situation, and taking it to mean "it'll never happen," when I think it's quite obvious that most of the problems you list will easily be addressed as time goes on and tech improves. But that's just my opinion.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

I think the term "dedicated gaming handheld" is a bit silly. It's really just how you market your device.

I mean, both the 3DS and the Vita (not being biased, but the Vita more in particular) do a lot that isn't gaming. I mean they browse the web, play music, watch videos (Nintendo has their Nintendo Video, Sony has videos on the PSN Store, both have Netflix), and a multitude of other stuff. I mean neither are really "dedicated gaming handhelds", nothing is these days.

The 3DS and Vita are seen as "gaming devices" still over "portable multimedia devices" because both the names attached to them and the way they're marketed. I mean if Nintendo is attached to something it's gonna be seen as a gaming device and its the same case with Playstation. Plus they're always marketed with gaming being the main features and others shown on the side.

I mean iPhones, iPads, Android devices, etc all can play games and have some fine games. Maybe they're not all the super high budget things we're used to but they do spawn plenty of really quality indie games or just fun little games to play. Yes, there's TONS of shit but welcome to the modern age of gaming. Every console is gonna have great games but tons of shit too. The amount of horrible DS releases compared to great ones is a terrifying ratio but we (me included) still consider the DS great. It's happening across the board these days.

But my point is that when you see an ad for these iPhones and such, it usually shows all these features (music, video, web browsing, gaming, etc) all on equal footing while gaming handhelds, with a certain stigma attached to their names as well, promote games above all us and show everything else as a side feature.

Also I think a lot of people just hate on the iPhone and mobile games so much because of a lot of shit which doesn't affect the quality of other games. Just because a bunch of games are shit on the App Store doesn't mean everything is. You'd be surprised by the number of quality games across devices, enough to safely say that buying an iPhone or such for gaming isn't outrageous. Hell its taking a lot of steps forward that other devices aren't. Pioneering multimedia to a larger extent and being completely digitally distributed is something that is becoming huge across all devices these days but so-called "dedicated gaming handhelds" are still stuck in the past on these issues.


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## KingVamp (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> You'd be surprised by the number of quality games across devices, enough to safely say that buying an iPhone or such for gaming isn't outrageous. Hell its taking a lot of steps forward that other devices aren't. Pioneering multimedia to a larger extent and being completely digitally distributed is something that is becoming huge across all devices these days but so-called "dedicated gaming handhelds" are still stuck in the past on these issues.


This is one thing I can't agree on or even see your side. If that the case, you wouldn't being needing that vita of yours. 
Yeah, we say dedicated gaming handhelds, but mean gaming focus handhelds. Point is , is it possible to have
a device that looks and is consider as both. The ability to play physical copy is part of gaming focus handhelds. It isn't a issue.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> This is one thing I can't agree on or even see your side. If that the case, you wouldn't being needing that vita of yours.
> Yeah, we say dedicated gaming handhelds, but mean gaming focus handhelds. Point is , is it possible to have
> a device that looks and is consider as both. The ability to play physical copy is part of gaming focus handhelds. It isn't a issue.



In all honesty physical games on handhelds is probably the dumbest thing that is still lingering for unknown reasons. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a crusade against physical games, I like them just as much as digital ones, but handhelds could use a heavy digital distribution focus more than anything else. Here's an all-too-common scenario: I bring HANDHELD X to some random location that isn't my house and I get bored of the game popped in. Well my handheld says "FUCK YOU I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE ASSHOLE" and I'm stuck with whatever is there. With iPhones at least if you get bored with Angry Birds you can go play... Angry Birds Rio instantly. You don't need to juggle around ten different cartridges. In all honesty if it wasn't for the price of memory cards and the fact that Sony and Nintendo are too braindead to actually learn how to digitally distribute then I'd be going digital on every Vita purchase (and 3DS when I get one in the near future).

It's actually just odd that the PC switched over (mostly) to digital distribution before handhelds. The two go together like peanut butter and bananas.

Also my whole point in my quoted post was that "dedicated gaming handheld" is nothing but marketing. Things like how the games are distributed one don't define it. Is the PSP Go not a "dedicated gaming handheld" because it was entirely digitally distributed?

EDIT: And DS flashcart owners can attest to this. I've heard plenty of cases where people will buy a physical copy of a DS game but still pirate it for the convenience of keeping it on their cart. I mean I was able to juggle like 20 games on my DS at the same time. So if I'm on the go and feel like a puzzle game, I have that. Platformers, I have that. RPGs, I have that. I was able to do the same on the PSP (more so with the Go's larger storage space) but the Vita, being that I don't have a large memory card and not much in terms of digitally distributed games on it, I feel this setting in.


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## KingVamp (Aug 23, 2012)

> With iPhones at least if you get bored with Angry Birds you can go play... Angry Birds Rio instantly.





Guild McCommunist said:


> In all honesty physical games on handhelds is probably the dumbest thing that is still lingering for unknown reasons.
> 
> 
> EDIT: And DS flashcart owners can attest to this. I've heard plenty of cases where people will buy a physical copy of a DS game but still pirate it for the convenience of keeping it on their cart. I mean I was able to juggle like 20 games on my DS at the same time. So if I'm on the go and feel like a puzzle game, I have that. Platformers, I have that. RPGs, I have that. I was able to do the same on the PSP (more so with the Go's larger storage space) but the Vita, being that I don't have a large memory card and not much in terms of digitally distributed games on it, I feel this setting in.


While digitally distributed is just coming along for handhelds, I didn't mean physical only. At least you get options there.
I know it convenient,but it nice to now that my games aren't reliant to one thing, if something was to go wrong.
Also, nice to actually touch the games you bought and also long as you don't lost them they aren't going anywhere.

I couldn't go entirely digital, at least not yet. I mean the only thing I got digitally are small games and demos.
I rather digital than cloud tho.


Guild McCommunist said:


> It's actually just odd that the PC switched over (mostly) to digital distribution before handhelds. The two go together like peanut butter and bananas.


Say what?



Guild McCommunist said:


> Also my whole point in my quoted post was that "dedicated gaming handheld" is nothing but marketing. Things like how the games are distributed one don't define it. Is the PSP Go not a "dedicated gaming handheld" because it was entirely digitally distributed?


Let me put this way. A device with all the functions/features of a handheld (including physical) and phone marketed to both. 

While I get your point, the PSP Go didn't exactly go well. I believe even if it was like that at first, tho it may have fair better.


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## KingVamp (Aug 23, 2012)

*Connection lag at the worse possible moment.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 23, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Except not everyone follow trends. Why should trends decide what technology can come out anyway? It's more the other way around. This hybrid can become the trend.  Plus people still use pull out keyboards.
> 
> After I think about it, yes. I use to play emulators on my BlackBerry I had in the very past. I don't remember having a problem.
> 
> ...


...Trends matter because that's what sells.

As far as I know, there aren't any Blackberry slider phones. Even then playing on an emulator with those ridiculously small buttons doesn't really tell me anything.


Try fitting some buttons and triggers on that phone and we'll see how well that works. Even then, that phone switches perspectives so it still works well as a _phone_.

Merging phones and dedicated handhelds don't make much sense. Like I said, a good dedicated handheld is a bad phone and vice versa.



xwatchmanx said:


> I guess in the end we're going to have to agree to disagree, but my problem with your stance Soulx is that, from my perspective, you're basing EVERYTHING only on the modern situation of things, and not on the future (which is what I'm talking about, I'm not saying a dedicated triple A gaming smartphone is going to come out in the next year or anything). Id est, "battery life is terrible," but of course it will inevitably get better as time goes on and technology improves. remember, before the smartphone era, it was considered "decent" battery life if your phone lasted multiple days without charging. But in the era of smartphones, getting 12 hours is considered "good" battery life.
> 
> That said, I don't see why it would be far-fetched to have a gaming smartphone with typical smartphone battery life, except when in "gaming mode." But regardless, point is, technology will get to a point where battery life will be much stronger.
> 
> ...


I don't go off hypotheticals, xwatchmanx.

As tech improves and power consumption increases, battery life with existing batteries will get worse and worse, that's a fact. Your reasoning is that "one day battery life will be much stronger". There is no basis for that statement.

I'm pretty sure you never used your slide-out keyboard for several hours at a time. That's the difference.

*@[member='Guild McCommunist']:* The main difference is that they have buttons (analog stick, face buttons, triggers, etc.) and are designed for optimally playing videogames.

And digital distribution being the only option wouldn't work well. Not everyone has access to a good wireless connection. And then there is the issue of not being able to sell your games, use them on another system (without deactivating or transferring ownership) as well as a general fixed price (PSN and the eShop isn't Steam, that's for sure).


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

soulx said:


> *@[member='Guild McCommunist']:* The main difference is that they have buttons (analog stick, face buttons, triggers, etc.) and are designed for optimally playing videogames.
> 
> And digital distribution being the only option wouldn't work well. Not everyone has access to a good wireless connection. And then there is the issue of not being able to sell your games, use them on another system (without deactivating or transferring ownership) as well as a general fixed price (PSN and the eShop isn't Steam, that's for sure).



I completely get your points. Admittedly touchscreens are better for some things but awful for others. Like I do enjoy the CoD: Zombies iPhone game but it'd be a lot better with proper buttons and such.

As for digital distribution, I don't really see it at as an issue in this day and age. The downloads are often small and almost everyone has a WiFi connection or can find one. I mean handheld games aren't the massive sizes that console games are. 3DS games max out at what, 4GB? Same with the Vita I think. Even then most retail/digital titles are rarely 4GB (I think the largest I saw on the PSN Store was like 3GB). As for the selling of used games, personally I never cared about it since I don't sell my games or trade them in, but, if the digital distribution is done right, why would you really care on trading in a game you got for a few bucks? It's why people rarely care about the lack of used games on Steam or iOS and such because they get the games for so cheap. If I pay $1 for a game and it's kinda mediocre or I'm done with it, you're only missing a dollar. But as I mentioned, the big three console guys need to step it up for digital distribution. Not being biased but Sony has taken the largest step with at least offering some small discount on digital vs. retail and they do offer some sales, Nintendo comes in second since their prices aren't that bad and I'll cut them some slack since they're only just getting into the dual digital/retail market, and Microsoft is lagging behind with their awful Games on Demand prices and service and when your basically mandatory paid network is completely crappy compared to PSN+ (hell I'd even think Nintendo Network would beat it), then there's some issues.

EDIT: In the future I could see the prices of handhelds actually rising and game prices declining. I mean people scoff at a $250 3DS (when it was that) and a $250 Vita but rarely complain about a more expensive iPod Touch or iPhone. I'd say it's because, in part, that everything is cheaper. If you have, say, $400 and you buy a Vita, you'll probably get the console, a memory card, and 2-3 games. With a 3DS, probably the system and I'd guess 4-5 games. With an iPhone, say it costs $300, you can get easily 10-20 games and other apps with it. I mean when an expensive game for the system is $15, there's a lot of allure to a console with cheap games.

But I get your points and agree to an extent.


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## Haloman800 (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't agree. Once I got a smartphone I stopped playing my DS and eventually sold it. Maybe if I had more free time I would of kept it, but a smartphone is (partially) able to be a handheld gaming system and many other things (music player, web browser, camera/camcorder, note taking, phone). And its game market grows every day with more and more excellent titles (NOVA 3, Dungeon Hunter, Max Payne, Temple Run, Jeypack Joyride, Ninjatown, Galcon are some of my favorites on Android).

In the end it's better for the consumer not to have to buy and carry around several different devices, having one device that can do everything is extremely nice and convenient, and (like capitalism) makes hardware better while driving prices down.

I think Nintendo's eventually going to regret making the comments about producing a smartphone.

Now.. back to work.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Haloman800 said:


> I don't agree. Once I got a smartphone I stopped playing my DS and eventually sold it. Maybe if I had more free time I would of kept it, but a smartphone is (partially) able to be a handheld gaming system and many other things (music player, web browser, camera/camcorder, note taking, phone). And its game market grows every day with more and more excellent titles (NOVA 3, Dungeon Hunter, Max Payne, Temple Run, Jeypack Joyride, Ninjatown, Galcon are some of my favorites on Android).
> 
> I think Nintendo's eventually going to regret making the comments about producing a smartphone.



I don't think Nintendo will ever really bother with the smartphone market nor will they eventually get their ass kicked my smartphones. I just think, if anything, they need to adapt a bit more to how smartphones work. Put a bit more emphasis on making a well rounded device that's more than just gaming and also make their digital distribution a bit cheaper. I mean digital downloads on PSN/NN (Nintendo Network, just gonna use this abbreviation from now on even if it's not exactly correct)/XBLA are still anywhere from $5-$20. The App Store ranges from like $1-$15. I'm not saying they should let down their quality standards to allow more $1 but there's a few instances of iOS games going to handhelds and the price difference is just funny.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I don't think Nintendo will ever really bother with the smartphone market (...)


They used to be interested in it quite a lot. Nintendo's R&D Department and Nokia developers were working on a Nintendo Phone in early 2000's and the works were advanced enough that a prototype was showcased to Nintendo's Board of Directors. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the project was ultimately rejected and canned - Nintendo was already working on the DS at the time and they had to channel all their brightest minds to that project. One of the reasons why Nintendo hasn't jumped on the cellular bandwagon yet is Satoru Iwata's stance on the subject - he made it clear that he's againts _"monthly subscriptions"_ in numerous interviews. He believes that Nintendo products are tailored to attract younger audiences and monthly payments do not fit that scheme. That said, ideas about embedding cellular technology into Nintendo products surely do bounce back and forth the HQ and perhaps one day we will see a Nintendo system that does accept SIM cards. After all, Pre-Paid is always an option and it only broadens connectivity oportunities if executed right.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Nintendo will ever really bother with the smartphone market (...)
> ...



I just don't see it happening today. It's easier for Sony and Microsoft because they're a bit more diversified. Nintendo entering the smartphone market is kinda like Sony entering the handheld market. It's basically already controlled by popular parties as it is and while they may not flop completely, they won't be used to the overwhelming ass whooping of the competition that they're accustomed to. I mean competing with Apple is tough on their turf and I don't know if they'd get a sign off for an Android-based Nintendo device. Windows Phone isn't exactly busting through walls here and I don't see another operating system being able to make a dent as it is for phones.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I just don't see it happening today. It's easier for Sony and Microsoft because they're a bit more diversified. Nintendo entering the smartphone market is kinda like Sony entering the handheld market. It's basically already controlled by popular parties as it is and while they may not flop completely, they won't be used to the overwhelming ass whooping of the competition that they're accustomed to. I mean competing with Apple is tough on their turf and I don't know if they'd get a sign off for an Android-based Nintendo device. Windows Phone isn't exactly busting through walls here and I don't see another operating system being able to make a dent as it is for phones.


I agree, however I also look at the situation from a different perspective. Nintendo's entirely capable of stealing some very specific customers from existing brands. They have a huge fanbase, and you yourself know how devoted it is. Given a choice between a Nintendo handheld console plus an iPhone or Android handset or a Nintendo console that's also a phone, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo fans would gladly wave around their new i3DS'es around.

As for Windows Phone, I honestly think that Windows handsets are simply past their prime. Windows Mobile was king, but then came Android and iOS which are both simply... better. Microsoft will have to try really hard to match them, and the bar is set pretty high. Symbian suffered the same fate and is now a thing of the past, even though just a few years ago it was the most commonly operating system for smartphones.

OS preference on mobiles fluctuates often so everything's subject to change, but judging from the direction Microsoft chose - a direction I call "being different at all cost", I sincerely doubt that Windows Phone will ever hold up in a fight againts the mighty Android and iOS - not as it is now. The interface works on the XBox 360, but I'm not so sure if it will on the PC and on mobiles and while I see the logic behind making all the interfaces look the same, I still think that different devices should have an interface tailored specifically for them because... well... they're different.

But I digress, what I wanted to say is that I can see a Nintendo handset working among the "gaming community" and I can see how their "gaming phone" could succeed, but at the same time I don't see them dominating the "general smartphone market".


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 23, 2012)

soulx said:


> I don't go off hypotheticals, xwatchmanx.


This entire DISCUSSION is based on hypotheticals... "What if" there's a dedicated gaming smartphone, "what if" handhelds as we know it die out, "what if" handhelds as we know it last. You can't have a discussion based ENTIRELY around hypotheticals and then say "I don't go off hypotheticals." The very nature of this discussion contradicts that, if you ask me.


soulx said:


> As tech improves and power consumption increases, battery life with existing batteries will get worse and worse, that's a fact. Your reasoning is that "one day battery life will be much stronger". There is no basis for that statement.


Idk how much of a personal history you have with smartphones, but here's mine... I got my first smartphone (Samsung Moment) in 2010. The battery was crap, and I was lucky to get it last 6-8 hours on stock. a year later, I got a Samsung Galaxy S Epic. I get anywhere between 8-12 hours of battery life on that. Less than a year after that, I got a Samsung Stratosphere (which is basically just a rebranded Samsung Galaxy S Epic with some minor design and OS tweaks), and it lasts pretty much all day (14-18 hours). I can't speak for you or anyone else, but my 3 years of smartphone experience right there shows that battery life is greatly improving, whether it be from larger batteries or OS tweaks or both (all 3 phones are roughly the same size, so if they can make the battery larger while improving the phone's specs AND keeping the same size, I think that counts as "battery improvement").

Either way, it definitely sounds like a double-standard for you to say you don't use hypotheticals, claim that I have no basis for thinking battery life will improve (when I indeed do), and then claiming that battery life getting worse is a "fact". And what basis do you have for THAT claim? Why did your standards change the moment it came to your opinion on future battery life, which has no more (arguably less) base than mine?


soulx said:


> I'm pretty sure you never used your slide-out keyboard for several hours at a time. That's the difference.


Actually, I have. My Samsung Moment had a wonderful keyboard (easily the best I've ever had on a phone). Not only was the Moment my only real computer or internet access (I had no computer or internet access of my own, at the time), but I spent the entire year I had it playing emulators. The way the keyboard was designed made it better suited for the task than most, granted, but still, I definitely HAVE used my keyboard for extensive periods of time, and quite comfortably. For my Samsung Epic and Stratosphere, I moved to using the likes of the iControlPad and Game Gripper for gaming on my phone.



Guild McCommunist said:


> In the future I could see the prices of handhelds actually rising and game prices declining. I mean people scoff at a $250 3DS (when it was that) and a $250 Vita but rarely complain about a more expensive iPod Touch or iPhone. I'd say it's because, in part, that everything is cheaper. If you have, say, $400 and you buy a Vita, you'll probably get the console, a memory card, and 2-3 games. With a 3DS, probably the system and I'd guess 4-5 games. With an iPhone, say it costs $300, you can get easily 10-20 games and other apps with it. I mean when an expensive game for the system is $15, there's a lot of allure to a console with cheap games.


I never really thought of this at all... but it makes a lot of sense.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I agree, however I also look at the situation from a different perspective. Nintendo's entirely capable of stealing customers from existing brands. They have a huge fanbase, and you yourself know how devoted it is. Given a choice between a Nintendo handheld console plus an iPhone or Android handset or a Nintendo console that's also a phone, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo fans would gladly wave around their new i3DS'es around.
> 
> As for Windows Phone, I honestly think that Windows handsets are simply past their prime. Windows Mobile was king, but then came Android and iOS which are both simply... better. Microsoft will have to try really hard to match them, and the bar is set pretty high. Symbian suffered the same fate and is now a thing of the past, even though just a few years ago it was the most commonly operating system for smartphones.
> 
> ...



I don't think Nintendo would be able to steal customers from a mobile phone base. I mean sure, there's some people that would want a Nintendo handheld and a phone in one but that base isn't exactly that large. They've got a huge uphill battle when it comes to what Android and iOS offer. iOS offers a lot of exclusivity behind it and, for Apple users at least, the products flow together. Plus there's a lot of content that Apple gets exclusively that others don't. Android is backed by Google and runs with that. It's connected to your range of Google services and it also has some exclusivity to it. Plus it's open source so it's ideal for hackers or people who like to tinker.

There's also a lot of services Nintendo just can't offer. Apple has a whole music and video service (iTunes) to back their phones. It's a lot of music and video you can buy on the fly. Nintendo can never offer anything like that. They can't get the deals that Apple does with iTunes. I guess you can add your own music but again, it doesn't flow like Apple does. Plus we've seen how app support goes down the line. I'll admit that Apple does have the best selection when it comes to app. Then comes Android but in general I feel its more limited. Then there's Windows Phone and that's even more limited. It goes on and on. Kinda like a Human Centipede situation. Stitching Nintendo on the back of it just means it gets the (pun intended) shit end of it.

I think Windows Phone will always have an uphill battle but they're trying to change that with Windows 8. Making products streamlined is a big part of what makes them successful. Windows is the most popular operating system out there so having a phone that flows with it seamlessly? Put that together with their gaming consoles (the Xbox 360 currently is very popular and the Nextbox will probably do well too) and their tablets and you've got an Apple situation going on but on a larger, broader scale.

But in general this just isn't something Nintendo can provide. I mean a Nintendo Phone might flow well with their home consoles but that's about it. Not computers like Apple and Microsoft, not a large web service like Google, not your tablets like all three. They'd kinda be stuck in the "Xbox 360 and Zune" situation.

I mean maybe in a distant future (I'm talking decades here) when a lot of our electronics start melding together we'll see Nintendo here but not anything in the next couple of gaming generations. I'm guessing in the next couple of decades that gaming consoles, phones, tablets, and computers will just start to turn into one discernible blob. If any of these big companies are around then, odds are their devices will be all-in-one. Computing solution, mobile phone solution, gaming solution.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Kinda like a Human Centipede situation. Stitching Nintendo on the back of it just means it gets the (pun intended) shit end of it.


You hear that? That's the sound of me DYING inside.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I mean maybe in a distant future (I'm talking decades here) when a lot of our electronics start melding together we'll see Nintendo here but not anything in the next couple of gaming generations. I'm guessing in the next couple of decades that gaming consoles, phones, tablets, and computers will just start to turn into one discernible blob. If any of these big companies are around then, odds are their devices will be all-in-one. Computing solution, mobile phone solution, gaming solution.


Oh, definitely. I agree with you, it will take some time indeed. Nintendo would have to pour incredible amounts of resources into creating a whole infrastructure for their mobile OS if they were to create a smartphone of their own and that would indeed take a few generations before perfected. I was thinking more of a console with GSM functionality rather than Nintendo's response to the iPhone, but then again, they simply wouldn't want to develop that (and haven't back in 2000 when it was Nokia, not Apple that was on the top of the ladder).

Portable electronics do meld together, just like you said and eventually we may see a product like this coming from Nintendo. I don't expect it to pop up anytime soon, but I'd love to see one eventually - I sincerely think they could take the "gaming smartphone" market by storm.


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## KingVamp (Aug 23, 2012)

soulx said:


> ...Trends matter because that's what sells.
> *Like I said, such a merge can become the new trend for at least the gaming section.*
> As far as I know, there aren't any Blackberry slider phones. Even then playing on an emulator with those ridiculously small buttons doesn't really tell me anything.
> Link
> ...


Assuming "as tech improves and power consumption increase "  isn't hypothetical?
People are working on batteries as much as they are working on other technology, I didn't
see why can't assume they are going to improve as well. Even then, a part of improving tech
is making them more efficient.

Edit: Should have read and not scanned. Most of what I said was covered.


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## Haloman800 (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Haloman800 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't agree. Once I got a smartphone I stopped playing my DS and eventually sold it. Maybe if I had more free time I would of kept it, but a smartphone is (partially) able to be a handheld gaming system and many other things (music player, web browser, camera/camcorder, note taking, phone). And its game market grows every day with more and more excellent titles (NOVA 3, Dungeon Hunter, Max Payne, Temple Run, Jeypack Joyride, Ninjatown, Galcon are some of my favorites on Android).
> ...


I agree about the price difference. much cheaper and more convenient to buy a game on an iPod Touch or Android phone in comparison to buying one for a handheld.



Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Nintendo will ever really bother with the smartphone market (...)
> ...



If they were really worried about monthly subscriptions turning people off, they should go the same route Apple did and offer a Nintendo phone, and then a "Nintendo phone - the phone", without cellular radios and without monthly fees. Apple has been doing this with the iPhone/iPod Touch and it's working excellent for them.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 23, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> ~snip


The conversation was originally about whether smartphones are eating into the dedicated handheld market.

Those phones you mentioned _do _seem to have larger batteries. Just because the phone size didn't seem to get much bigger doesn't mean the battery is the same size. I'm not a battery expert by any means but it should be obvious that larger batteries have a greater capacity. It's not any advancement in battery tech.

Don't know how you managed to use a slide-out keyboard for hours on end but for serious gaming, I wouldn't bother with one. Too flimsy and small.



KingVamp said:


> Assuming "as tech improves and power consumption increase "  isn't hypothetical?
> People are working on batteries as much as they are working on other technology, I didn't
> see why can't assume they are going to improve as well. Even then, a part of improving tech
> is making them more efficient.
> ...


No, it isn't hypothetical.


With *existing batteries*, battery life _will_ get worse with newer tech that has *higher power consumption*.

Give me a good reason why dedicated handhelds should merge with smartphones? The only advantage is convenience. But to get that, you're sacrificing good battery life, comfort, certain handheld-specific innovations (dual-screens on the DS, and to an extent, backtouch on the Vita), essentially tying yourself to a contract (unless you feel like paying a bunch for an "unlocked" device). There isn't much advantage to Nintendo or Sony either as they will be abandoning the large market of children. And I dread seeing a Sony or Nintendo phone OS (because they definitely can't use iOS or Android).


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

Except, as my example shows (and you admitted), current batteries aren't going to stay. newer batteries are going to replace older ones with better capacity, whether it's because of size or another reason. The Samsung Galaxy SII Epic Touch (according to people I know) uses the same battery size as the Samsung Galaxy S Epic, and yet those batteries work WAY BETTER than the original Epic batteries. Even in the same size, battery tech is improving.

Anyway, I think I mentioned this in my previous comment, but I understand that larger battery =/= better battery tech. But personally, I think being able to fit a larger battery in a phone the same size while still maintaining/improving it's specs is a form of improvement. Obviously, in this case, it's not the battery TECH that's improved, but workarounds were reached to acquire better battery life, which is still the same end goal, right?

Anyway, regarding your point about gaming on a phone's keyboard for a year: To be fair, it's not something I would do regularly again. I have gotten tired of gaming on my phone, and even attachments like the iControlPad just don't feel comfortable anymore for anything requiring the shoulder buttons (which are uncomfortably placed). I still find the game gripper (a rubber control set that slides over the keyboard) to be extremely comfortable, but it doesn't have shoulder buttons, so go figure. When I was gaming on my phone, it was basically a necessity as it was the only electronic device I had access to (long story short, my parents were hyper control freaks who wouldn't let me use their computer or internet, even at 20 years old).

But in the end, the more and more I discuss this with you, the more convinced I am that a gaming smartphone is in the FAR FAR off future (so, congrats ), and you bring up some valid points and issues that would be had with a Nintendo or Sony smartphone (plus I think of a few others I mentioned). That said, I still think this is something that could very possibly happen, just not anytime soon.


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## KingVamp (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming "as tech improves and power consumption increase "  isn't hypothetical?
> ...


Pretty much the convenience, really.
Like I said in my last post in bold that dual screen phone is a good base design (as in not like that  exactly since one the problems of it is being too small for a handheld) for such a device that can change into 3 different modes, but somehow you keep letting that go over your head. Going back to the same defense, as if you aren't even trying to put that into consideration. In the case with the vita, if we had the battery, all it takes is to add the phone feature to it. As foxi4 point out, it not like kids don't have phones.

Why can't they use Android or some kind of variation? Vita already got a Android like OS. I'm pretty sure Nintendo wouldn't be working alone with such a device anyway. Dual OS is probably what we will be looking at. Game OS and Phone OS.

Not saying it will absolutely work, going to happen or I want the thing. Just saying it is possible one day with the proper tech, R & D,motivation, and time it could happen.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Dual OS is probably what we will be looking at. Game OS and Phone OS.


Personally, I doubt that bit. What if you get a phone call or text message while playing games? You would have no way of being notified if the "gaming" and "smartphone" portions were different OSes. It would have to be one integrated OS.


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## emigre (Aug 24, 2012)

Personally I do see the days of the dedicated handheld dying out. I've just sold my 3DS and games to buy an iPad for my portable needs. It does everything I want from media, games and general functionality. I'm much much more satisfied using my tablet for my gaming needs than I ever was for my 3DS.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

emigre said:


> I've just sold my 3DS and games to buy an iPad for my portable needs.


I should've known you weren't a true convert.  Didn't you have that 3DS for, what, like a month?


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## emigre (Aug 24, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > I've just sold my 3DS and games to buy an iPad for my portable needs.
> ...



Around a month, ultimately the lack of functionality of the 3DS (bar games) was crap if you're out for a few hours a day. Hence the iPad is just a lot better for me.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

emigre said:


> Around a month, ultimately the lack of functionality of the 3DS (bar games) was crap if you're out for a few hours a day. Hence the iPad is just a lot better for me.


I can understand that.


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## KingVamp (Aug 24, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > Dual OS is probably what we will be looking at. Game OS and Phone OS.
> ...



Yeah, I didn't know what I was thinking of when I said that. Tho if there was two OSes certain functions
could cross over.





emigre said:


> Personally I do see the days of the dedicated handheld dying out. I've just sold my 3DS and games to buy an iPad for my portable needs. It does everything I want from media, games and general functionality. I'm much much more satisfied using my tablet for my gaming needs than I ever was for my 3DS.





emigre said:


> Around a month, ultimately the lack of functionality of the 3DS (bar games) was crap if you're out for a few hours a day. Hence the iPad is just a lot better for me.


Bar games? You mean small/indie games? That I a due time thing. If that your reason for handhelds dieing out then I can't see it that way.

Small games alone couldn't hold me over.


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## Veho (Aug 24, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Bar games? You mean small/indie games?


I think he means functionality outside of games. The games were fine, but they weren't enough.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

Admittedly if I had a choice of a 3DS, Vita, or iPad (if I didn't have my Vita currently) I'd probably choose the iPad. Price aside it has much better functionality than the other two devices and there are some good games for it. Like people try to inflate the 3DS and Vita games to be instantly prime compared to iOS games when they release but both game libraries are still shit compared to iOS currently. YEAH I WENT THERE.


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## raulpica (Aug 24, 2012)

I love going to work and sticking my iPad in my pocket  It's perfect to play games on a crowded subway train!



...It's not like it doesn't fit in my pocket in the first place and that I need two hands and perfect stability to play with it.


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## DS1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Admittedly if I had a choice of a 3DS, Vita, or iPad (if I didn't have my Vita currently) I'd probably choose the iPad. Price aside it has much better functionality than the other two devices and there are some good games for it. Like people try to inflate the 3DS and Vita games to be instantly prime compared to iOS games when they release but both game libraries are still shit compared to iOS currently. YEAH I WENT THERE.



Plus AFAIK iOS games aren't usually region locked.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

raulpica said:


> I love going to work and sticking my iPad in my pocket  It's perfect to play games on a crowded subway train!
> 
> 
> 
> ...It's not like it doesn't fit in my pocket in the first place and that I need two hands and perfect stability to play with it.


Is that an iPad in your pocket, or are you just grossly deformed and happy to see me?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

raulpica said:


> I love going to work and sticking my iPad in my pocket  It's perfect to play games on a crowded subway train!
> 
> 
> 
> ...It's not like it doesn't fit in my pocket in the first place and that I need two hands and perfect stability to play with it.



Bring case
Fuck step #2
????
Profit!
I'm not exactly a city dweller but from the few times I've been on the NYC subway system I've seen a fair share of people bringing iPads and various tablets with them for their daily commute.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm not exactly a city dweller but from the few times I've been on the NYC subway system I've seen a fair share of people bringing iPads and various tablets with them for their daily commute.


Maybe this is just me, but personally, I'll choose my cell phone or gaming device that can fit in my pocket over a device I have to carry in a case any day for two reasons. A smartphone or 3DS that can fit in my pocket is with me at all times. Either it's in my pocket, or it's in my hand, provided I don't stupidly put it down on the seat next to me or something. An iPad or e-reader, etc on the other hand, needs a separate case that I actually have to carry. Either I have to carry the case, or I have to keep my backpack on me. And a backpack isn't always going to be something I can comfortably wear while sitting down on a subway, so I'll have to take it off. So there's a greater chance of me forgetting it and leaving it. And either way, it's MUCH easier for someone dishonest to snatch my iPad out of my backpack when I'm not looking than it is for them to snatch my cell phone or 3DS out of my front pockets.


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## raulpica (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > I love going to work and sticking my iPad in my pocket  It's perfect to play games on a crowded subway train!
> ...


Ah, NYC. How I miss thee.

Here the subways are so stuffed that I can barely check the clock on my phone. In the rare case that you can snipe someone to one of the few seats, then you can play. But there isn't enough space to use an iPad anyway.

Same goes for the buses.



xwatchmanx said:


> And a backpack isn't always going to be something I can comfortably wear while sitting down on a subway, so I'll have to take it off. So there's a greater chance of me forgetting it and leaving it. And either way, it's MUCH easier for someone dishonest to snatch my iPad out of my backpack when I'm not looking than it is for them to snatch my cell phone or 3DS out of my front pockets.


This and this.


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## lokomelo (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > I love going to work and sticking my iPad in my pocket  It's perfect to play games on a crowded subway train!
> ...


play on subway?

nah... I dont think I'll do that one day

station:


Spoiler












train:


Spoiler











Now on the subject. I dont know if size does really matter. I really believe that cloud-system in future will put simple and smaller devices on our hands (game device or not). I'm not telling I like that or not, but I do believe that in future we will have screen size as only limiter to the size of handheld devices.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

@[member='raulpica']

If you can't even manage to whip out your phone on a subway, then how can you even manage to play a 3DS or Vita or any handheld for that matter?

If your subways are so crowded that you can't do anything then don't bring any handheld with you.


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## raulpica (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> @[member='raulpica']
> 
> If you can't even manage to whip out your phone on a subway, then how can you even manage to play a 3DS or Vita or any handheld for that matter?
> 
> If your subways are so crowded that you can't do anything then don't bring any handheld with you.


Well, I usually go into a corner or something and play  I feel a lot more secure holding it firmly with two hands, than using one hand to hold the thing and play with the other. Also an iPad is terribly big compared to one of those two. I admit that I haven't played with my 3DS on a subway (actually I haven't fired it on since months because I've been too lazy to buy any games for it), but I remember playing fine with my DS.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> If your subways are so crowded that you can't do anything then don't bring any handheld with you.


No offense, but I think it goes without saying that maybe one would want to use their handheld later when they're not on the subway? Just because you can't use my handheld on the subway because it's too crowded doesn't mean you can't use it later when I've reached whatever destination you rode the subway too. Maybe you just want to enjoy the fresh air in the park, and kill some time with Mario on the bench, or something like that.

And as I mentioned in my previous comment, a device you can fit in your pocket provides a reasonable amount of security from both theft and loss while on that crowded subway where you can't use the device. the iPad however is going to be a the mercy of you having to physically carry it either bare, in a case, or in a backpack, which is MUCH more prone to loss or theft.


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## KingVamp (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Admittedly if I had a choice of a 3DS, Vita, or iPad (if I didn't have my Vita currently) I'd probably choose the iPad.


Well then, just email me your vita right now since you are so ready to put it out the door.




lokomelo said:


> *snip


Not trying put anyone down, but I'm glad I didn't have to go through that.



Guild McCommunist said:


> @[member='raulpica']
> 
> If you can't even manage to whip out your phone on a subway, then how can you even manage to play a 3DS or Vita or any handheld for that matter?
> 
> If your subways are so crowded that you can't do anything then don't bring any handheld with you.


I think he was just emphasizing the fact that it would be easier to use a small device instead of the
huge device that is the IPad.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> I think he was just emphasizing the fact that it would be easier to use a small device instead of the
> huge device that is the IPad.



The iPad isn't like the size of a surfboard. If you have enough room to play a handheld device then odds are you have enough room to use your iPad.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 24, 2012)

emigre said:


> Personally I do see the days of the dedicated handheld dying out. I've just sold my 3DS and games to buy an iPad for my portable needs. It does everything I want from media, games and general functionality. I'm much much more satisfied using my tablet for my gaming needs than I ever was for my 3DS.


lmfao

If you expected functionality outside of games, why even buy a 3DS (or any handheld) in the first place?



KingVamp said:


> Spoiler: snip
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Buttons wouldn't work with that phone's design. The only reason the swivel design works is because each layer is so thin.

Android wouldn't work because apps for it are coded in Java. Which to be honest is pretty shit for making games with. And how would you prevent piracy? On a platform running Android or a modified version, your shit will get hacked very quickly.

As for the Vita running an "Android-like OS" (modified?), I've never heard that. Any proof?

Not all kids can get a phone which is one reason the DS is popular among that demographic.



xwatchmanx said:


> ~snip


It's not the battery that's being improved. It's probably the result of a die shrink. Components get smaller and there is more space available.


But fair enough.


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## emigre (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I do see the days of the dedicated handheld dying out. I've just sold my 3DS and games to buy an iPad for my portable needs. It does everything I want from media, games and general functionality. I'm much much more satisfied using my tablet for my gaming needs than I ever was for my 3DS.
> ...



I never said anything about expecting functionality. The tone of my posts illustrated the want for greater functionality was a realisation.

Or are you just being a pompous sod again?


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 24, 2012)

emigre said:


> I never said anything about expecting functionality. The tone of my posts illustrated the want for greater functionality was a realisation.
> 
> Or are you just being a pompous sod again?


Your post didn't say/imply that but I digress.

Considering you _just_ posted in the 3DS Collection thread, it seemed that you were trolling.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 25, 2012)

soulx said:


> It's not the battery that's being improved. It's probably the result of a dies shrink. Components get smaller and there is more space available.
> 
> 
> But fair enough.


Precisely. Even if the battery technology itself isn't being improved, it has the same end-goal of better battery life. 



soulx said:


> As for the Vita running an "Android-like OS" (modified?), I've never heard that. Any proof?


I could be mistaken, but I think he was just talking about the look, feel, and functionality, not the actual technical similarity. I don't own a Vita and haven't really played one much at all except for demo models in the likes of Gamestop and Wal-Mart, but from what I've seen, it does have the high-performance and sleek feel of a smartphone. Who knows, maybe it's just cuz of the resolution and type of touch screen, but when I use the non-gaming functions of my 3DS, it feels like I'm using a "legacy" watered-down smartphone, like Palm or Blackberry. But when I play around with the menus and features on the Vita, it just feels INCREDIBLY more powerful, like an Android or iOS device. I think that's what he was getting at.



soulx said:


> Considering you _just_ posted in the 3DS Collection thread, it seemed that you were trolling.


I was a bit confused by that myself


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## KingVamp (Aug 25, 2012)

soulx said:


> Buttons wouldn't work with that phone's design. The only reason the swivel design works is because each layer is so thin.


My answer to that is to indent a enough of the bottom of the main screen (The screen you see even when closed).This thing would have to use something like the circle pad of course.

I feel like we are the ones R & D on it. 



soulx said:


> Android wouldn't work because apps for it are coded in Java. Which to be honest is pretty shit for making games with. And how would you prevent piracy? On a platform running Android or a modified version, your shit will get hacked very quickly.


You think a modified version by Nintendo or Sony would be hack quick and easy?
Tho is would just be easier to have their own OS read android apps and games.


soulx said:


> As for the Vita running an "Android-like OS" (modified?), I've never heard that. Any proof?





xwatchmanx said:


> I think he was just talking about the look, feel, and functionality,



Yep!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VJ9DxPrcP0


soulx said:


> Not all kids can get a phone which is one reason the DS is popular among that demographic.


Except the fact that smart phones wasn't this wide spread vs the past.




As much fun as this is (no really), I think I'll end this here.


----------

