# Game Freak claims it is not reusing Pokemon models in Sword/Shield



## rensenware (Jul 15, 2019)

What do they mean that they were barely able to import all pokemon into SuMo? Weren't those the same models from X and Y?


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## DJPlace (Jul 15, 2019)

first less pokemon now this... i hope 8th gen fails for after all this.


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## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

So... how many people believe this is bullshit? Because I do.


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## RedoLane (Jul 15, 2019)

Well, it's pretty obvious, considering it jumped from the 3DS to the Switch.
Porting the models would make them look very awkward.
EDIT: i just dug my own grave ._.


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## Dartz150 (Jul 15, 2019)

Complete bullshit, even the character animations are the same, there are many videos on youtube demonstrating that these are indeed reused, will find them and post those here later.


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## Darkitz (Jul 15, 2019)

i guess 'Project Town' is/was Let's Go ?


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## GalladeGuy (Jul 15, 2019)

So either it's bullshit and they were caught lying, or it's true and they admitted that they're too incompetent to transfer perfectly good models from one system to another.


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## eyeliner (Jul 15, 2019)

Dartz150 said:


> Complete bullshit, even the character animations are the same, there are many videos on youtube demonstrating that these are indeed reused, will find them and post those here later.


Fight the good fight, son!


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## Lacius (Jul 15, 2019)

Based on the footage we've seen, there's good reason to believe Game Freak is lying (or embellishing their minor edits).
They intentionally created the 3DS models to be largely futureproof, so it would be incredibly stupid of them to remake everything.


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## GalladeGuy (Jul 15, 2019)

Darkitz said:


> i guess 'Project Town' is/was Let's Go ?


Project Town is a non-Pokemon RPG that they've been working on for a while now.


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## chartube12 (Jul 15, 2019)

Darkitz said:


> i guess 'Project Town' is/was Let's Go ?



No! It’s a new game from Game Freak. They are trying to start a new franchise unconnected to Pokémon. It’s very possible they are trying to move on from Pokémon.


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## grey72 (Jul 15, 2019)

Now that they're (most probably) lying, I can only imagine the shitshow this gen is gonna be


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## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Jul 15, 2019)

Fuck.You.GameFreak


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 15, 2019)

Didn't people already say this is just the result of a mistranslation of the interview and the 3DS models are actually being used? I could've sworn this was already covered ages ago, people have done various "comparisons" of the models shown in in-game trailers and such that basically all but prove they're the exact same.


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## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Didn't people already say this is just the result of a mistranslation of the interview and the 3DS models are actually being used? I could've sworn this was already covered ages ago, people have done various "comparisons" of the models shown in in-game trailers and such that basically all but prove they're the exact same.


That would make their case even worse then because if they are already using the models from the 3ds, it means they can port them. And the work was already there.


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## raxadian (Jul 15, 2019)

Chary said:


> the Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing features require additional 3D models from each Pokemon, and are not simply resized versions of their existing assets.​


Then just import the Pokemon without those. Is not like every  Pokemon in Sun and Moon could do Mega evolution.


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## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

i dont get it


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## DKB (Jul 15, 2019)

Such bullshit artists.


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## Megadriver94 (Jul 15, 2019)

GIF related, Masuda!


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## raxadian (Jul 15, 2019)

Missingphy said:


> i dont get it



It would have taken too long to port all the Pokemon so they didn't as to not delay the game even more.


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## 8BitWonder (Jul 15, 2019)

jupitteer said:


> What do they mean that they were barely able to import all pokemon into SuMo? Weren't those the same models from X and Y?


My first guess was that they're talking about the 3DS size constraint of 4GB, but the larger variants US/UM still had around .4GB of wiggle room.
But even if that were their reason, the switch doesn't share that constraint since it splits games over 4GB into parts.


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## scionae (Jul 15, 2019)

Damn they're terrible fucking liars.


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## Konathedemo (Jul 15, 2019)

The article got mistranslated by someone using Google Translator
Using the Yandex translater it reveal that they were talking about making some choices from scratch due to the new hardware which make sense since the team didn't have a problem porting the original 150 Pokémon

Here's the translation with Yandex: "Omori: we had a lot of discussions with Masuda about this.Even at the time of the Pokémon San moon, it was quite a tough situation (to be able to bring all the Pokémon together), but the hard turns into a Nintendo Switch, and we had to make some choices from scratch.However, I think that if you can play"Pocket Monster Sword Shield" (even if there is a limit to the Pokemon that can be brought) wild area and story, such as the content of the play becomes a considerable volume."

Quick edit: Obviously the translation is not perfect but it make more sense than the bad translation about remaking the Pokémon models from scratch when they look the same and use the same animations


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## KapuDaKoopa (Jul 15, 2019)

This complete misinformation has already been corrected multiple times by different people.
The sourcing of "having to redo every model because of differing framerates/couldn't port the 3DS model data" and "they had to split their team up" don't even come from a mistranslation of the article, they come from a _random reddit post_ that blew up, the OP of said post completely misinterpreting the article, likely due to using an automatic translator and just plain not caring to properly read.
https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1150046237804154881


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## osaka35 (Jul 15, 2019)

Do we have any native speakers in the forum that'd like to take a crack at translating the original interview?


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## Rioluwott (Jul 15, 2019)

Well we will know if they reused the models(we know they do) when the game release and we get all the files.
Even if this was mistranslated it will give GF a bad look since people may believe it and think GF is even a more incompetent company than we thought.
Also, i think CREATURES made the models for the Pokemon not GF.
Anyway i hope these games be real bad so we can get 2 things
A lot of fans finally acknowledge GF lazyness and stop buying the games or GF sees people are not buying bad games and try to improve(not happening)


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## ItsMetaKnight (Jul 15, 2019)

Rioluwott said:


> Also, i think CREATURES made the models for the Pokemon not GF.


 You are absolutely right about this.


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## Windaga (Jul 15, 2019)

raxadian said:


> Then just import the Pokemon without those. Is not like every  Pokemon in Sun and Moon could do Mega evolution.



I'm pretty sure every Pokemon can be Dynamaxed. Isn't that what they said?


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## Enryx25 (Jul 15, 2019)

Rioluwott said:


> Well we will know if they reused the models(we know they do) when the game release and we get all the files.
> *Even if this was mistranslated it will give GF a bad look since people may believe it and think GF is even a more incompetent company than we thought.*
> Also, i think CREATURES made the models for the Pokemon not GF.
> Anyway i hope these games be real bad so we can get 2 things
> A lot of fans finally acknowledge GF lazyness and stop buying the games or GF sees people are not buying bad games and try to improve(not happening)


And that's a good thing


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## smf (Jul 15, 2019)

Rioluwott said:


> Well we will know if they reused the models(we know they do) when the game release and we get all the files.



The 3d models is a lazy strawman, they are adding features and they have to model those features for all the pokemon. Plus a lot of the pokemon in previous games are just crap.

The x, y, z coordinates is not the only model there is.... There are data models for the capabilities, there is also textures.


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## nikeymikey (Jul 15, 2019)

Who actually cares if they did or didn’t use the same models? At the end of the day it’s yet another Pokemon game that kids will go nuts for, not to the extent of the early noughties but still. 

Does the reuse or non reuse of models really affect anybody’s life that much that they have to come on here screaming “[email protected]$K YOU GAMEFREAK”


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## smf (Jul 15, 2019)

nikeymikey said:


> Does the reuse or non reuse of models really affect anybody’s life that much that they have to come on here screaming “[email protected]$K YOU GAMEFREAK”



It affects peoples entitlement.


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## GalladeGuy (Jul 15, 2019)

nikeymikey said:


> Who actually cares if they did or didn’t use the same models? At the end of the day it’s yet another Pokemon game that kids will go nuts for, not to the extent of the early noughties but still.
> 
> Does the reuse or non reuse of models really affect anybody’s life that much that they have to come on here screaming “[email protected]$K YOU GAMEFREAK”


I don't think anyone really cares that they're reusing models. The problem is that they're using it as an excuse for cutting Pokemon.


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## Jiehfeng (Jul 15, 2019)

"Confirmed", right...


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## DuoForce (Jul 15, 2019)

Fake. Fucking. News. 

The models are the exact same as the 3DS models. This was a translation error. The fact that this made front page is embarrassing. You can do better than this GBATemp staff. 

Also, fuck GameFreak and #BringBackNationalDex


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 15, 2019)

More excuses and I'm not buying it, they're banking on people not being able to check or something.
And there's really no reason why dynamaxed pokemon except for the likely 7 that have an extra sprite, don't just upsize the existing base model.
Also, if this causes so many issues, maybe they shouldn't have used that dumb gimmick.

For real, people would've been fine with 20 more mega pokemon.

Finally, it's painful to watch Masuda being put to the frontlines to deal with this too. Clearly this is not really his decision, the higher ups put him in a situation where he can't do anything but throw out pokemon because his team lacks the talent to fix this technically and manpower to solve this just with more work.


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## Megadriver94 (Jul 15, 2019)

smf said:


> It affects peoples entitlement.


>SCURP A DERP fans that express any reaction that isn't joy or happiness towards Gen 8 are automatically entitled!
RIIIIIIIIIGHT...


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## xskibbles (Jul 15, 2019)

Can’t wait for this game to get data mined once out so we really see what was so hard lol


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Few content creator / influencers of the mass who don't actually have the game nor have played it are calling out something
The devs say no, backed up by different translations.

The followers: "No this must be bullshit"

Because of course, it comes from a company, so it is obviously lies and evil doing.

Seriously. Some people give way too much credit to some influencers to even realize they are ALSO full of shit sometimes and are just surfing on the next general outrage. Hive-minded fanbase 101.


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## smile72 (Jul 15, 2019)

Jesus, Gamefreak just shut the fuck up. Stop digging your grave deeper.


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## Megadriver94 (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> Few content creator / influencers of the mass who don't actually have the game nor have played it are calling out something
> The devs say no, backed up by different translations.
> 
> The followers: "No this must be bullshit"
> ...


Even if there is no mis-translation, the interviewees(in this case Masuda and Omori) are best not to be taken by their word alone. The same goes for the dummies that believe the words of EA execs and Epic Games spokespeople on the things they are being accused of.


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## Bedel (Jul 15, 2019)

It seems to be a misstranslation:


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Megadriver94 said:


> Even if there is no mis-translation, the interviewees(in this case Masuda and Omori) are best not to be taken by their word alone. The same goes for the dummies that believe the words of EA execs and Epic Games spokespeople on the things they are being accused of.



What's dumb is to turn "EA" into a fallacious argument whenever a company doesn't do exactly what "the fans" want. Not every company act like EA.
And I keep putting "the fans" in quote because the amount of sales will show how many "fans" care about this outrage, and how many will care about the numerous new features.



Bedel said:


> It seems to be a misstranslation:



This would be better to take a source from neutral people, so clearly not this guy.
Here's another translation: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...that_pokemon_sword_and_shield_interview_quote


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## Dan-the-Rebirth (Jul 15, 2019)

Well according to a YouTube video that whole depate is based on a wrong translation. And every gaming site is coping the news without fact checking the original Japanese interview


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## Enryx25 (Jul 15, 2019)

I'm not the kind of person to say this but please pirate this game Gbatemp.
I want a BOTW/SMO/Xenoblade level Pokemon game and the only way is to make Nintendo develop the games not GameFreak.


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## AkitoUF (Jul 15, 2019)

Suspiciously specific denial.


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## Megadriver94 (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> What's dumb is to turn "EA" into a fallacious argument whenever a company doesn't do exactly what "the fans" want. Not every company act like EA.
> And I keep putting "the fans" in quote because the amount of sales will show how many "fans" care about this outrage, and how many will care about the numerous new features.
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, here's the thing: I know EA is not affiliated with Game Freak in any way. A company does not have to be either post-2007 EA or modern-day ActivisionBlizzard to be capable of doing things and making decisions that are not all that good. Look at post-2007 Bethesda Studios as well as, more recently Epic games with their constant denial of the Epic games store's spyware stuff about Tencen (company from mainland China) People are different and indeed, emotion does play a part in drama and/or outrage. However, new features, as good as they may be, aren't a valid reason to remove not only the Megastones but also nearly all, if not exactly all, of the non-Galar region Pokemon! If they couldn't delay it further to touch things up further, then at least make Pokemon Sword/Shield a dual cart game (by this, I mean have the game take up two game cards. its been done on optical disc games many times on certain times for the Sega CD, PS1, PS2, 3DO, Sega Saturn, and Gamecube).


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Enryx25 said:


> I'm not the kind of person to say this but please pirate this game Gbatemp.
> I want a BOTW/SMO/Xenoblade level Pokemon game and the only way is to make Nintendo develop the games not GameFreak.



Or to convince them to only make mobile games 



Dan-the-Rebirth said:


> Well according to a YouTube video that whole depate is based on a wrong translation. And every gaming site is coping the news without fact checking the original Japanese interview


Aren't their followers copying everything the youtubers say without fact checking either?


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## KyleHyde (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> What's dumb is to turn "EA" into a fallacious argument whenever a company doesn't do exactly what "the fans" want. Not every company act like EA.
> And I keep putting "the fans" in quote because the amount of sales will show how many "fans" care about this outrage, and how many will care about the numerous new features.


Sales numbers aren't a good indicator about how much people actually care about the situation or not; there's obviously people who are still going to buy it just to rip the models, check out the performance, and dissect the whole thing. Just look at Paper Mario: Sticker Star; it sold a lot of copies, yet most of those people either returned or sold the game right away.



deinonychus71 said:


> This would be better to take a source from neutral people, so clearly not this guy.
> Here's another translation: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...that_pokemon_sword_and_shield_interview_quote


He admitted on his twitter that, like everyone else, he was also misinformed and is currently working on a new video addressing the new translations that have been showing up now.
The video that was shared in this thread was made *before* the proper re-translation of the interview quote was made.
The video is too misinformed so I have it unlisted.  Lots of great new translations have been released recently so I will be addressing those instead : 3— JDK (@DistantKingdom) July 15, 2019


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 15, 2019)

AkitoUF said:


> Suspiciously specific denial.


No, the userbase is just not happy with the answer. So, they act like they know better, even though 95% of the people here don't know the first thing about game development. Love it.


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## AkikoKumagara (Jul 15, 2019)

Dartz150 said:


> Complete bullshit, even the character animations are the same, there are many videos on youtube demonstrating that these are indeed reused, will find them and post those here later.


All that implies is that they used the same skeletal structure so they could recycle some animations. It implies nothing about the models/mesh itself.
Source: I work with 3d models and animation. I know how porting animations works.


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## Megadriver94 (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> Or to convince them to only make mobile games
> 
> 
> Aren't their followers copying everything the youtubers say without fact checking either?





Memoir said:


> No, the userbase is just not happy with the answer. So, they act like they know better, even though 95% of the people here don't know the first thing about game development. Love it.


Being a game developer doesn't mean you should expect the fans to universally praise the decisions you made in making the game. Receiving criticism that isn't positive=/=harassment or bullying.


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## smf (Jul 15, 2019)

Megadriver94 said:


> >SCURP A DERP fans that express any reaction that isn't joy or happiness towards Gen 8 are automatically entitled!
> RIIIIIIIIIGHT...
> View attachment 173191



No, not automatically. But in this case it's true.

You can be a fan of something and disagree without coming over as arrogant and pompous.

People who won't leave you alone telling everyone that you're lying about what you're doing, when you're not lying, are pretty terrible people.


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Megadriver94 said:


> Okay, here's the thing: I know EA is not affiliated with Game Freak in any way. A company does not have to be either post-2007 EA or modern-day ActivisionBlizzard to be capable of doing things and making decisions that are not all that good. Look at post-2007 Bethesda Studios as well as, more recently Epic games with their constant denial of the Epic games store's spyware stuff about Tencen (company from mainland China) People are different and indeed, emotion does play a part in drama and/or outrage. However, new features, as good as they may be, aren't a valid reason to remove not only the Megastones but also nearly all, if not exactly all, of the non-Galar region Pokemon! If they couldn't delay it further to touch things up further, then at least make Pokemon Sword/Shield a dual cart game (by this, I mean have the game take up two game cards. its been done on optical disc games many times on certain times for the Sega CD, PS1, PS2, 3DO, Sega Saturn, and Gamecube).



Yes, they can fuck up, they can make mistake. I'm not denying that. But I have a problem with the lot of people here who are simply assuming they don't care or have bad intentions. That's a typical "EA" prejudice being applied to every company as soon as they don't do everything that "the fans" want.

Pretty much all you're saying except for the dex is stuff that they've always been doing. They've always added new stuff and removed old stuff.
It was only a matter of time till they started removing some Pokemon. I might even say, it's potentially a GOOD thing, less monster is more manageable and can (potentially) be beneficial to other aspects of the game.
Not saying they will make it better, but we can't know until it's there 

Also, why do people seem to think cartridge size is a problem? I fail to understand this argument. 



KyleHyde said:


> Sales numbers aren't a good indicator about how much people actually care about the situation or not; there's obviously people who are still going to buy it just to rip the models, check out the performance, and dissect the whole thing. Just look at Paper Mario: Sticker Star; it sold a lot of copies, yet most of those people either returned or sold the game right away.


This goes both ways though. If "the core fanbase" think Gamefreak is out of touch, they also need to look at the numbers of other Pokemon games recently and maybe acknowledge that they too could be out of touch and there's another fanbase building out of more recent games (thinking Go here) that might not care all too much about stuff being removed from games they never played.


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## SpiffyJUNIOR (Jul 15, 2019)

one of the biggest earning franchises folks


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## A Generic User (Jul 15, 2019)

Siliconera translated this interview properly just days after it was reported, and the ones by gengo and Pokejungle support that. Sadly, I guess people are infected with confirmation bias and listened to the mistranslated reddit post instead because it told them what they wanted to hear.

I think the real issue is not mistranslation, but a lack _of _a translation. Perhaps the reason people are having trouble interpreting this is that it really _can't_ be interpreted at all? It seems as though the original line is causing discord among translators because it doesn't actually mean anything: it's worded so ambiguously that it's impossible to tell what they're actually saying. Stuff like this has happened before, what with the whole issue of interpreting that one line in Kingdom Hearts X about who Lauriam's sister was. That's definitely the impression I get from the people who are trying to interpret it for the western audience.


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## Chary -- Correction/Information Update (Jul 15, 2019)

After pouring through dozens of comments sections on multiple sites, trawling through Twitter, and looking at every other reporting site, it seems that the “models from scratch” part is definitively what they said? What comes into question is the why of it, as the team being split/overworked might not have been correctly stated. 

Siliconera translated it themselves, with the important parts of their translation showing. 

A) GF was pressured during development of Su/Mo to fit all the Pokémon. 
B) Dynamaxing requires more production effort to be put into modeling work. 
C) There was a “need to redo models”

https://www.siliconera.com/2019/06/...ear-even-in-games-after-pokemon-sword-shield/

PokeJungle did their own translation as well. Their take is that the line of “redoing models from scratch” could be taken as not being able to directly port the character models, and instead having to rework each model individually, while still using them as a base. 

https://pokejungle.net/2019/07/12/game-freak-shares-why-galar-wont-have-all-the-pokemon/

NintendoLife via Gengo of course investigated as well, suppositing that it’s:

“Now that we are moving to the Nintendo Switch and remaking the models from scratch, we had to make some kind of choice.“

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...that_pokemon_sword_and_shield_interview_quote

Finally, Joe Merrick (Serebii) got absolutely dogpiled for saying that while the “split dev team” part is incorrect, but that they did say “they had to redo the models from scratch”

https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1150046237804154881?s=20

The issue absolutely seems to be one big vague cluster of crap, but that’s why this is news. For people to discuss their thoughts and add comments and try to find out what the truth appears to be. Seeing as I’ve done the news for this site for 4 years, I don’t try to post half baked stories, and I am always very vocal against rumors. So any snark is laughable. This seemed important enough to cover, however, as Pokemon discussions are at an all time fever pitch lately. 

It’s clear to see that people are incredibly furious about Pokémon S/S, but anger and disappointment by no means gives anyone rights to believe they know exactly what GameFreak is doing. Have they shown lazy tendencies in the past? Yes. Could they be trying to cover their butts by trying to offload a little bit of the ire towards them? Certainly, though this interview existed prior to the outcry of recycled animations. Just don’t let fury cloud your judgement on the possibilities and finer details.


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Megadriver94 said:


> Being a game developer doesn't mean you should expect the fans to universally praise the decisions you made in making the game. Receiving criticism that isn't positive=/=harassment or bullying.



When criticism turns into conspiracies it becomes a problem. And this is sadly the era we live in, where people call journalists for lack of "fact checking" while not spending a second to fact check themselves.
And these days, youtubers words are almost gospel, they barely need to prove anything, while journalists won't be trusted no matter what.

I've got that video from that freelancer animator youtuber sent to me multiple times as a "fact" that Gamefreak was being lazy. What's really lazy is people not giving a damn about using their brain and think by themselves. It's not cause you've done a few animations in freelancer that you can grasp all the intricacies of managing a large scale project. It's not because 1 JRPG on switch have better animations that it's on the same scale as a game that would need to have 800+ monster properly animated. Some comparisons just never made sense, but people are unable to being critical over what some influencers are saying.
It's sad, truly sad.

There needs to be a status quo somewhere, some neutrality. I'll be the last one to say game journalists don't have an agenda, but that doesn't mean youtubers don't have one either.


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## DeoNaught (Jul 15, 2019)

Chary said:


> After pouring through dozens of comments sections on multiple sites, trawling through Twitter, and looking at every other reporting site, it seems that the “models from scratch” part is definitively what they said? What comes into question is the why of it, as the team being split/overworked might not have been correctly stated.
> 
> Siliconera translated it themselves, with the important parts of their translation showing.
> 
> ...


Time for a featured post : D


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## Megadriver94 (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> Yes, they can fuck up, they can make mistake. I'm not denying that. But I have a problem with the lot of people here who are simply assuming they don't care or have bad intentions. That's a typical "EA" prejudice being applied to every company as soon as they don't do everything that "the fans" want.
> 
> Pretty much all you're saying except for the dex is stuff that they've always been doing. They've always added new stuff and removed old stuff.
> It was only a matter of time till they started removing some Pokemon. I might even say, it's potentially a GOOD thing, less monster is more manageable and can (potentially) be beneficial to other aspects of the game.
> ...


What do GF gain in the long run from removing the National Dex? Pokemon you gotta "catch them all", not just the ones in the Region you start in. They should have just removed the Megastones and not the bulk of the non-Galar Pokemon. Oh, and card size can be an issue for sure, because sometimes with all the data made and debugged, you either have to go with bank-switching, removing some areas and items from the final build, or as I said has been with some optical disc games on systems like the PS1, Sega Saturn, Sega CD, and Gamecube, make the game be made up of two physical discs or more.


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Megadriver94 said:


> What do GF gain in the long run from removing the National Dex? Pokemon you gotta "catch them all", not just the ones in the Region you start in. They should have just removed the Megastones and not the bulk of the non-Galar Pokemon. Oh, and card size can be an issue for sure, because sometimes with all the data made and debugged, you either have to go with bank-switching, removing some areas and items from the final build, or as I said has been with some optical disc games on systems like the PS1, Sega Saturn, Sega CD, and Gamecube, make the game be made up of two physical discs or more.



You can quote me on this if I end up being wrong, but I can assure you cartridge size has nothing to do with whether the game can have 800 monsters or not.
If anything, the games you're referring are game that had long videos, which typically take a lot of space.

Pokemon HD (barely) textures barely take any space compared to videos, and animations is basically code, it takes nothing.


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## dAVID_ (Jul 15, 2019)

They can say whatever the want, but facts are facts.
They game is very rushed, and we will likely see a similar situation as we did with Sonic '06: a buggy and incomplete mess that could've been better if it was given the proper time.
Bonus: Guess which game the background of the image belongs to.


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## Chary (Jul 15, 2019)

Megadriver94 said:


> What do GF gain in the long run from removing the National Dex


The quick and easy answer is that they don’t have to bother with new learnsets, new level up moves, potentially adding methods for evolutions or transformations for certain location or event based Pokémon, modeling, attack and battle animations, etc. In turn, any text related doesn’t have to be translated into a multitude of worldwide languages either. All that takes development time.

Development time that could take away from Pokémon S/S launching in the very coveted and marketable holiday pre-Christmas season for the west, which is not only going to drive game sales, but also new Switch sales, especially the Switch Lite. 

But that’s just my random thoughts. It could just be that GF is tired of dealing with a massive, bloated, over saturated PokeDex full of 1000 different little creatures and having to keep track of it all.


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## altorn (Jul 15, 2019)

Ok so at least they're "thinking" about subsequent updates adding new Pokemon in post-launch.


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## xskibbles (Jul 15, 2019)

Chary said:


> The quick and easy answer is that they don’t have to bother with new learnsets, new level up moves, potentially adding methods for evolutions or transformations for certain location or event based Pokémon, modeling, attack and battle animations, etc. In turn, any text related doesn’t have to be translated into a multitude of worldwide languages either. All that takes development time.
> 
> Development time that could take away from Pokémon S/S launching in the very coveted and marketable holiday pre-Christmas season for the west, which is not only going to drive game sales, but also new Switch sales, especially the Switch Lite.
> 
> But that’s just my random thoughts. It could just be that GF is tired of dealing with a massive, bloated, over saturated PokeDex full of 1000 different little creatures and having to keep track of it all.


I think the last part myself. I think GameFreak themselves are kind of just tired of Pokemon and focused more on Town.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> Yes, they can fuck up, they can make mistake. I'm not denying that. But I have a problem with the lot of people here who are simply assuming they don't care or have bad intentions. That's a typical "EA" prejudice being applied to every company as soon as they don't do everything that "the fans" want.
> 
> Pretty much all you're saying except for the dex is stuff that they've always been doing. They've always added new stuff and removed old stuff.
> It was only a matter of time till they started removing some Pokemon. I might even say, it's potentially a GOOD thing, less monster is more manageable and can (potentially) be beneficial to other aspects of the game.
> ...


Fans issue: Pokemon being removed.
gamefreaks reason for pokemon being removed: better models and better animations
fans notice that models are identical
fans notice that animations have only been slightly tweaked
data miners notice that the 3ds models have a higher tricount than what the 3ds can display.

*Fans realize gamefreak makes a billion dollars from franchise
Fans Begins to believe there is something wrong*


----------



## Justinde75 (Jul 15, 2019)

Havent purchased a pokemon game legally since black and white 2, the last games that deserved money

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I honestly dont understand why gamefreak is doing this. They are not a small indie studio. They are developing a game that is part of one of the biggest video game series of all time.


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## DeoNaught (Jul 15, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Fans issue: Pokemon being removed.
> gamefreaks reason for pokemon being removed: better models and better animations
> fans notice that models are identical
> fans notice that animations have only been slightly tweaked
> ...


Modles aren't the only thing you have to implement...
You have which moves to learn and not learn, you have Pokedex Description which changes pretty much every generation, you have stats even though they are mostly rng there are thresholds to implement. You have the pokemon cries, you have events, and so on and so forth. 

I'd rather have them freak out over the trees, and get really nice graphics, then freak out over the national dex, and get pokemon only completionists will care about, and 3ds era graphics


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## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

DeoNaught said:


> Modles aren't the only thing you have to implement...
> You have which moves to learn and not learn, you have Pokedex Description which changes pretty much every generation, you have stats even though they are mostly rng there are thresholds to implement. You have the pokemon cries, you have events, and so on and so forth.
> 
> I'd rather have them freak out over the trees, and get really nice graphics, then freak out over the national dex, and get pokemon only completionists will care about, and 3ds era graphics


Except they aren't doing anything about that. And further more, switch and 3ds are on the similar architecture. we aren't going from some strange architecture to ARM.


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Fans issue: Pokemon being removed.
> gamefreaks reason for pokemon being removed: better models and better animations
> fans notice that models are identical
> fans notice that animations have only been slightly tweaked
> ...



Now with critical thinking:
- You cannot prove that models are identicals because nobody has the game yet.
- You don't know the full scope of the same and any potential new animation.
- Yes factually it can be proven that 3ds models were made to be future proof.

- A billion dollars franchise does not make a budget automatically bigger, nor can you simply delay a game without consequences (again, Pokemon is not just a video game, it will impacts all surrounding marketing), nor can you always change the scope or budget through development. As someone said earlier, anyone saying that has no idea how it is to work in the industry.
- What's "wrong" is that they decided not take an incremental approach in their migration to HD console instead of creating the new BotW, which is totally fine to criticize, but is actually a pretty understandable business choice.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 15, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Except they aren't doing anything about that. And further more, switch and 3ds are on the similar architecture. we aren't going from some strange architecture to ARM.


It's not a hardware limitation... Unless you're accounting for how underpowered the 3ds is... Just bringing the models over may not be so copy/paste like most of you believe. "It looks the same" is an awful counter argument as well... As if they weren't aiming for that or something..


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## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> Now with critical thinking:
> - You cannot prove that models are identicals because nobody has the game yet.
> - You don't know the full scope of the same and any potential new animation.
> - Yes factually it can be proven that 3ds models were made to be future proof.
> ...


Yes I can actually. There's a difference between a texture and model, with a good eye you can see if they made any changes. Example e3 Machop from the tree house. Pay attention to those rip cage lines, the devs could of easily made it as part of the model, but they are not, still 2d textures,


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## antiNT (Jul 15, 2019)

Please, watch this video, as it explains why this statement is absolutely false. It's actually a wrong translation, Game Freak never claimed to redo the models.


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## impeio92 (Jul 15, 2019)

I dont think so


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## KingBlank (Jul 15, 2019)

I doubt that 95% of pokemon's fanbase cares about the exclusion of national dex. Me included.
I just hope they are serious about this quality over quantity thing.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

Memoir said:


> It's not a hardware limitation... Unless you're accounting for how underpowered the 3ds is... Just bringing the models over may not be so copy/paste like most of you believe. "It looks the same" is an awful counter argument as well... As if they weren't aiming for that or something..


there's a difference between style and improvement. With those models I can play spot the difference and lose every time. Because I notice that exactly everything is exactly the same. I already stated this. But let's say they did make new models or had to tweak them. Wouldn't they made machop's rib cage lines part of the actual model instead of textures?


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## deinonychus71 (Jul 15, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Yes I can actually. There's a difference between a texture and model, with a good eye you can see if they made any changes. Example e3 Machop from the tree house. Pay attention to those rip cage lines, the devs could of easily made it as part of the model, but they are not, still 2d textures,



It only shows that it seems that some textures and models for that one Pokemon are being reused. It does not make a rule.



antiNT said:


> Please, watch this video, as it explains why this statement is absolutely false. It's actually a wrong translation, Game Freak never claimed to redo the models.



Read the previous posts please.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> It only shows that it seems that some textures and models for that one Pokemon are being reused. It does not make a rule.
> 
> 
> Read the previous posts please.


Not some all returning pokemon. But at this point I'm done arguing since you clearly want to shill for the game.
But because this is a switch game, and a large release one.
I'll say that sword and shield will get leaked 5 days before it's released.
And data miners will likely have a field day.


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## froggestspirit (Jul 15, 2019)

If they are suposidly new models from scratch, that actually concerns me more, as it would be more efficient to convert them to the necessary format than to scrap and start over.

What also concerns me, is that these models were also used in let's go.

Yeah, they may need to touch up on textures, but that's not remodelling from scratch.

Also, sun and moons NPC animations were so canned, I got tired of them in Sun and Moon. seeing Hop jump for joy like Hau did haunts me...


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## orangy57 (Jul 15, 2019)

they probably just clicked the tessellation button to make the models """new"""


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## raxadian (Jul 15, 2019)

Windaga said:


> I'm pretty sure every Pokemon can be Dynamaxed. Isn't that what they said?



Every Pokemon in the game so far. 

But I don't care about that if it got me back my old Pokemon.


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## KingVamp (Jul 15, 2019)

I'm not one of those people that are disregarding all the work they did, starting from scratch or not, but if they simply planned and said that they adding all the other Pokemon in later games and updates, I'm sure a lot more people would have been fine with that.


----------



## MiiJack (Jul 15, 2019)

At the end of the day, the numbers of poly can't be known yet. It's just like the passage to hd of some games.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 15, 2019)

Every shot we've see of previous gen Mons in S&S says otherwise.  Tell us you needed to make new models and animations for Dynamax/Gigantamax, sure, but don't bullshit us.  We'll have side-by-side videos of the models/animations from gen8 and gen7 within a week of release that will make GameFreak look like fools for this statement.


----------



## PrincessLillie (Jul 15, 2019)

Game Freak also said they were working on higher-quality animations.

In other words, they're fucking liars.


----------



## DarkCoffe64 (Jul 15, 2019)

Gamefreak you lazy fucks, if you were at least honest this shitshow would've been a less more shitty, but no.
Just go play Digimon Story Cyber Sleuht instead, it's what Pokemon dreams it could be.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jul 15, 2019)

Man, if I cared about Pokemon, I'd be upset too


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 15, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Man, if I cared about Pokemon, I'd be upset too


This generation of gamers.. Always pissing and moaning about something stupid.


----------



## GolfDude (Jul 15, 2019)

i think i figured this out..

game freak KNEW of the Switch Mini, and this game was DESIGNED FOR THE MINI's 720p screen, and not the 1080p TV Output, thus the graphics overhaul only had to be 720p worthy...


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## the_randomizer (Jul 15, 2019)

Memoir said:


> This generation of gamers.. Always pissing and moaning about something stupid.



And here I am not giving two shits about these games lol.


----------



## Paranoid V (Jul 15, 2019)

They are obviously lying. When the games hit the market and the hombrew community gets access to the games files we will have irrefutable proof. Guaranteed.


----------



## eyeliner (Jul 15, 2019)

I don't know what the problem is. A rom hacker will import the 3ds models easily, doing what GameFreak wasn't willing to.

People, 800 models is a ginormous amont of virtual pets to manage. The day would have to come that some animals would get the axe.

Wait for the game to arrive and then protest with your wallet and don't pirate it. Because I'm sure all you ragers buy all poko gamu, yes?

It's just a multimedia entertainment application, guys. It's silly of you to have that kind of a boner for something yet to be released.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 15, 2019)

Gonna say this as loudly as possible for those at the back.

BULLSHIT! The models and animations are exactly the god damn same as SMUSUM.

And they say they can't do it? Watch hackers do it in a fucking week after release.


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## Xzi (Jul 15, 2019)

Memoir said:


> This generation of gamers.. Always pissing and moaning about something stupid.


I don't even care that all Pokemon won't be included or that they're obviously re-using most models and animations.  It does irk me when developers lie just to try and calm a PR shitstorm, though.


----------



## Lumstar (Jul 16, 2019)

It's fake news. The original interview was vague about what was redone, and people spun it out of proportion to hate on the game.

Anyway, we're focusing too much on a single thing. Putting a Pokemon in the game, means also having to implement any species-exclusive items, moves, abilities, etc. Not to mention the exhausting feat of bug testing EVERYTHING. With moves like Metronome, a Pokemon needs to behave and animate correctly with almost every move.


----------



## Sonansune (Jul 16, 2019)

we shall see when the game released.
get those model and scripts, sha comparsion


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## andeers (Jul 16, 2019)

Yes, models. But animations?


----------



## XDel (Jul 16, 2019)

Yaaawwwnnn


----------



## Hells Malice (Jul 16, 2019)

Game Freak states something blatantly obvious to literally anyone with two braincells to spark together

Rabid retards: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MUH BANDWAGON THO


Stupid people coming out in full force to cry about Pokemon SS


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Every shot we've see of previous gen Mons in S&S says otherwise.  Tell us you needed to make new models and animations for Dynamax/Gigantamax, sure, but don't bullshit us.  We'll have side-by-side videos of the models/animations from gen8 and gen7 within a week of release that will make GameFreak look like fools for this statement.


I'd hope for side by side model rips rather than vids that won't prove anything. You're implying that they can't have started from scratch if the models and animations are remotely the same. Which just adds to my point. At best we can wait until someone with actual experience in the area can give us an in depth analysis. At this point the pedantic nitpicking is nothing short of hollow screaming from ill tempered children.


----------



## chaoskagami (Jul 16, 2019)

Hells Malice said:


> Game Freak states something blatantly obvious to literally anyone with two braincells to spark together
> 
> Rabid retards: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MUH BANDWAGON THO
> 
> Stupid people coming out in full force to cry about Pokemon SS



Yeah, no. It's blatantly obvious from initial footage that models and animations are reused and they're being lazy. If every pokemon can Gigantimax and has a unique model, then the excuse of modelling and texturing becomes somewhat more believable, but still. They have probably the largest budget of any video game company in existence. There's no excuse here.



StarGazerTom said:


> Watch hackers do it in a fucking week after release.



Hell, the man SciresM himself will probably do it given how annoyed he was on twitter when that news broke.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> Yeah, no. It's blatantly obvious from initial footage that models and animations are reused and they're being lazy. If every pokemon can Gigantimax and has a unique model, then the excuse of modelling and texturing becomes somewhat more believable, but still. They have probably the largest budget of any video game company in existence. There's no excuse here.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, the man SciresM himself will probably do it given how annoyed he was on twitter when that news broke.


You're going off of videos of gameplay to make a baseless claim? Why can't they share similar animations and designs? Are they not the same Pokémon from before? What about that concept so hard for you people in denial here? Some of you are easily into your 30s. It's a kids game and you act like it's a government conspiracy or some shit.


----------



## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Jul 16, 2019)

Memoir said:


> You're going off of videos of gameplay to make a baseless claim? Why can't they share similar animations and designs? Are they not the same Pokémon from before? What about that concept so hard for you people in denial here? Some of you are easily into your 30s. It's a kids game and you act like it's a government conspiracy or some shit.


Kids game?
I love pokemon and i'm in my 20's
So don't claim its a kids game


----------



## Xzi (Jul 16, 2019)

Memoir said:


> You're implying that they can't have started from scratch if the models and animations are remotely the same.


So far what we've seen isn't 'remotely' the same, though, it's exactly the same.  If they had started from scratch, it'd be nearly impossible to match the old stuff that closely, and I don't know why they'd waste so much time trying to replicate the work that was already done.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

Xzi said:


> So far what we've seen isn't 'remotely' the same, though, it's exactly the same.  If they had started from scratch, it'd be nearly impossible to match the old stuff that closely, and I don't know why they'd waste so much time trying to replicate the work that was already done.


Not necessarily. Who is to say they didn't have some material to work off of to give us what we see. So, I should explain my stance here. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the models are the same. It's just that I'm trying to see their side. I also don't find it impossible to give us the same designs, animations, movesets when recreating the models from scratch. Especially if they have certain source material to base it off of. No, I'm not implying rips.


----------



## chaoskagami (Jul 16, 2019)

Xzi said:


> So far what we've seen isn't 'remotely' the same, though, it's exactly the same.  If they had started from scratch, it'd be nearly impossible to match the old stuff that closely, and I don't know why they'd waste so much time trying to replicate the work that was already done.



This is the counterpoint; if they aren't reusing models, why aren't they reusing models? It produces output that looks 99.9% identical and saves heaps of effort and employee work hours that could otherwise be spent refining gameplay or other elements of the game. It's inefficient to NOT reuse models. They also have done so in the past with Let's Go, so what exactly is stopping them here? I'm inclined to believe nothing. They're just making excuses to avoid a PR crisis.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> This is the counterpoint; if they aren't reusing models, why aren't they reusing models? It produces output that looks 99.9% identical and saves heaps of effort and employee work hours that could otherwise be spent refining gameplay or other elements of the game. It's inefficient to NOT reuse models. They also have done so in the past with Let's Go, so what exactly is stopping them here? I'm inclined to believe nothing. They're just making excuses to avoid a PR crisis.


So, Let's Go has been proven to use older models then?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Idontknowwhattoputhere said:


> Kids game?
> I love pokemon and i'm in my 20's
> So don't claim its a kids game


It's a kids game. The demographic is definitely those into their teens and younger. Just because you like MLP doesn't make it not a kids show.


----------



## chaoskagami (Jul 16, 2019)

Memoir said:


> So, Let's Go has been proven to use older models then?



Aside from the partner Pikachu and Eevee, yes. The partners have slightly more detail than generic Pikachu and Eevee. Textures have also been redone on everything, but that's it.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> Aside from the partner Pikachu and Eevee, yes. The partners have slightly more detail than generic Pikachu and Eevee. Textures have also been redone on everything, but that's it.


Really then..


----------



## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

StarGazerTom said:


> Gonna say this as loudly as possible for those at the back.
> 
> BULLSHIT! The models and animations are exactly the god damn same as SMUSUM.
> 
> And they say they can't do it? Watch hackers do it in a fucking week after release.



Does talking like that turn you on or something?



chaoskagami said:


> Yeah, no. It's blatantly obvious from initial footage that models and animations are reused and they're being lazy. If every pokemon can Gigantimax and has a unique model, then the excuse of modelling and texturing becomes somewhat more believable, but still. They have probably the largest budget of any video game company in existence. There's no excuse here.



Why are you minimizing what they are saying and then using guess work as your proof?

It's interesting watching people persecute a company that can't win. Copy the previous game, you're lazy. Don't copy the previous game, you're lazy.

I reckon they'll put out a shit game to spite you all and it will be your fault.


----------



## SapphireExile (Jul 16, 2019)

People find a reason to bitch about everything it seems.


----------



## chaoskagami (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Why are you minimizing what they are saying and then using guess work as your proof?



Perhaps it's because I'm not making a proper argument there and simply stating my thoughts on the matter. Would you like to start a proper logical argument? I'd personally say it's impossible to judge correctly until we actually have SwSh in our hands, since all evidence at this point is circumstantial and video-based at best (although it's definitely not in Game Freak's favor.)



> It's interesting watching people persecute a company that can't win. Copy the previous game, you're lazy. Don't copy the previous game, you're lazy.



When you have one of the largest player bases in existence, that's to be expected. Different people like different things, and at the numbers they pull, opinions on what they should do will often conflict.

To be clear, I'm buying SwSh either way and I'm sure it'll be a good game. I'm just not happy about the overall lack of every Pokemon, and that they seem to be attempting to deflect from this at every turn rather than just coming out and saying that it wasn't part of the plan from the beginning. I mean, if they were to just admit that, I'd be cool with it. The problem is that they aren't, and I'm doubtful that it's actually technical reasons given their budget, employee numbers and track history.

It's far more likely that Game Freak is attempting to detach from Nintendo given the increasing focus on their own original games and that they didn't reassign the original projects team to the Pokemon one this time around. If that's the case, I'm going to assume it's not a technical problem, but one of management, workpower and lower design specs than past entries, not animations, models or textures as they want us to believe.


----------



## Dominator211 (Jul 16, 2019)

grey72 said:


> Now that they're (most probably) lying, I can only imagine the shitshow this gen is gonna be


Mindless fucking people are still gonna buy it, its still gonna be a success, not matter how much it sucks. it will still sell like hotcakes


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

Dominator211 said:


> Mindless fucking people are still gonna buy it, its still gonna be a success, not matter how much it sucks. it will still sell like hotcakes


"Mindless"... Or maybe people that want a Pokémon experience on the Switch and can't be damned to care about minor details like this? If anything, the Mindless ones are going off attacking GameFreak over something that has no bearing on their daily lives.


----------



## Lumstar (Jul 16, 2019)

Superficial appearance doesn't actually prove the models are the same. Even if they are the same for all practical purposes.
Unlikely as it is, they might have minuscule changes or were re-created.


----------



## codezer0 (Jul 16, 2019)

God damn it, man.

I was actually hype when they first showed off Dynamax, because the first thought that came to mind was taking my Incineroar, performing Dynamax and then unleashing Malicious Moonsault. Even commented as much in the official unveil video.

Now, not only did they insist on regressing by removing mega's and z moves, but there's now as much of a chance I can't have my wrestle cat in the game.

Programmatically, there is _zero_ excuse for the next mainline game coming to a more powerful console (the Switch) to actually be _worse_ than both the last 3DS games to come out, _and_ the side game that showed up before in Let's go.

Masuda is lying, and so is everyone that's come forward. If they had the time to do as they claim, they also have the time to implement better randomization algorithms, too. And we know they *won't* do that.

As much as I openly give the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Activision and the like shit for creating horrible working conditions and basically having the _Sword of Damocles_ over their entire staff and ready to chuck anyone at a moment's notice when stockholders deem fit, the entire staff at game freak, including that egotistical trash boy Satoshi Tajiri need to get their head slapped up and down downtown tokyo with a 2-by-4. There is no goddamn excuse for any of these regressions. For as ridiculously good as they have it by being a second party dev for Nintendo, and for basically being second only to Nintendo to have access to their hardware SDK's, _and_ for the embarrassing amounts of money Game Freak makes selling out like they do, GF could afford to subject the modeling and render job to effing *Disney* and still turn a profit within a week. Animations and rigging need not change for the critters. they are able to scale up with their rendering models. If their rendering software demands re-making skeletons and animation for changing or up-rating the models, then their software environment is at fault. But they need to stop being coy and acting like this isn't just them trying to blow smoke up someone's ass.


----------



## medoli900 (Jul 16, 2019)

I love how people doesn't read at least the two first pages before replying. I'll just bump these posts, hopefully people will see them before replying.


Konathedemo said:


> The article got mistranslated by someone using Google Translator
> Using the Yandex translater it reveal that they were talking about making some choices from scratch due to the new hardware which make sense since the team didn't have a problem porting the original 150 Pokémon
> 
> Here's the translation with Yandex: "Omori: we had a lot of discussions with Masuda about this.Even at the time of the Pokémon San moon, it was quite a tough situation (to be able to bring all the Pokémon together), but the hard turns into a Nintendo Switch, and we had to make some choices from scratch.However, I think that if you can play"Pocket Monster Sword Shield" (even if there is a limit to the Pokemon that can be brought) wild area and story, such as the content of the play becomes a considerable volume."
> ...





KapuDaKoopa said:


> This complete misinformation has already been corrected multiple times by different people.
> The sourcing of "having to redo every model because of differing framerates/couldn't port the 3DS model data" and "they had to split their team up" don't even come from a mistranslation of the article, they come from a _random reddit post_ that blew up, the OP of said post completely misinterpreting the article, likely due to using an automatic translator and just plain not caring to properly read.
> https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1150046237804154881


----------



## rob4 (Jul 16, 2019)

The more power the console has, the worse the result of game freak games


----------



## Jayro (Jul 16, 2019)

Well that explains why the other Pokemon got cut...


----------



## DeoNaught (Jul 16, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> And here I am not giving two shits about these games lol.


Idk man, I kinda care about Pokemon, but I don't really care that they are cutting out pokemon, it's their call ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's just a game
Unova (and the gen after)has some really weird pokemon they could cut out... I'd be glad if we all forgot about the GARBAGE POKEMON.

I skipped over the Sun and moon games, and I'm actually thinking of getting back into pokemon with this one.


----------



## Reploid (Jul 16, 2019)

Well, why not?


----------



## GbaNober (Jul 16, 2019)

Lacking Pokemon from the main series behind a mobile app..that's disappointing


----------



## chaoskagami (Jul 16, 2019)

So, I was thinking about what sort of issue would cause the models to be redone.

I've thought up another possibility here - and mind, this is just a possibility - perhaps Game Freak evaluated the retexturing process done for Let's GO and decided against redoing textures. I mean, let's be honest. Remaking 800+ textures is a lot of work. Perhaps instead they're using vertex colors and shaders to render the colors? It would explain the need to redo the models (clean lines for the coloring to look right), as well as why textures haven't been mentioned at all by Game Freak themselves. Nvidia processors handle this sort of shading really well compared to previous generations where all they had access to was a shitty embedded GPU. Supposing they're using vertex coloring, the dynamax Pokemon could actually be using a separate model with more loop cuts to make for smoother lines. It still doesn't explain the whole "animations" bit, but it's a distinct possibility.

I still don't think it's defensible to exclude more than half of existing Pokemon, and I think the criticism they're getting is rightly deserved to a certain extent.



DeoNaught said:


> Idk man, I kinda care about Pokemon, but I don't really care that they are cutting out pokemon, it's their call ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's just a game
> Unova (and the gen after)has some really weird pokemon they could cut out... I'd be glad if we all forgot about the GARBAGE POKEMON.
> 
> I skipped over the Sun and moon games, and I'm actually thinking of getting back into pokemon with this one.



Yeeeeeaaah, I do kinda get that sentiment. Some of BW's mons were really out there for Pokemon, such that I think half would be better Digimon than Pokemon. I disagree on X/Y, though.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 16, 2019)

https://nintendoeverything.com/full...sident-on-the-lets-go-games-and-2019-entries/
– “The game will be released for the Switch, but we have kept in mind the ‘hands on’ approach that we’ve had so far. We have also *polished *the graphics.”
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So I guess our job as hackers this time is to fix this shit. Probably similar data structures to Let's go, guess we've got five months to start trying to figure out how to add old Pokémon back in....— Michael (@SciresM) June 11, 2019

Yeah... you don't really want to piss off him... Looks like those with cfw are going to get a more complete experience.


----------



## Agusto101 (Jul 16, 2019)

Can you stop already? , the game looks decent and fun , maybe it's not the best maybe it doesnt have the DeX and reuse all blablabla, but at the end is only a game , it's not the end of the world of something we are in the homebrew side we are not even to buy it maybe a few will  ,so what's the point , When it comes out we will see if the game is really that bad or it only was the people crying like always when obviously they are going to buy it sooner or later.


----------



## Paulsar99 (Jul 16, 2019)

Gamefreak can be lazy and incompetent as much as they want because they know at the end of the day their pokemon games will sell like hotcakes.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 16, 2019)

Chary said:


> View attachment 173183​
> In recent days, Game Freak has come under fire for various grievances fans have with the upcoming Pokemon titles, Sword and Shield. Following the controversy of only a select amount of Pokemon being in the game at all, Game Freak was then criticized for reusing animations and character models from previous Pokemon games. However, these claims appear to be untrue, as a previous interview with Junichi Masuda and Shigeru Ohmori confirms that Game Freak has had to create every Pokemon model in Sword and Shield "from scratch". The June 2019 interview, which went largely unnoticed due to its lack of English translation, was also not referenced in the "official response" from Game Freak two weeks ago, regarding the Pokedex issue.
> 
> Due to the nature of the Nintendo Switch's better hardware and smoother framerates, the 3DS-era Pokemon models and animations were unable to be directly transferred over to engine that Sword and Shield are running on, so the team over at Game Freak had to remake every Pokemon model. This was apparently especially difficult for the team, who has had their normal amount of developers split between two major projects: Sword/Shield and Town. During the development of Sun and Moon, Game Freak was "barely able to" import all 809 Pokemon into that game with a full dedicated team as it was. This, coupled with the daunting task of balancing each and every Pokemon was what led to Junichi Masuda deciding to "choose quality over quantity", when it came to choosing which Pokemon would make it into the Galar Dex. In the interview he says, "The decision is sad. Of course I wanted to bring all the Pokemon in if I could do it, but this was a decision I had to make eventually".
> ...


Pretty sure this game was meant for 3ds and is somewhat of a lie, though they very well could have remade all the models.


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## Darth Meteos (Jul 16, 2019)

DeoNaught said:


> ... I don't really care that they are cutting out pokemon...



And here it is, the bottom of the barrel take, ladies and gentlemen. "I don't care, so you shouldn't either."
Cue the response of "oh, i didn't mean it like that"
Bullshit. If that's the case, then your argument isn't even an argument.

This game is a step back. When fans complain, the useful suckers who'll eat anything jump on the people fighting the good fight and throw shit like this at them. "oh but think of gamefreak, it's not that big of a deal, stop the harrassment"
It's insulting. A core feature of the mainline series is being removed, and it's bad. If it doesn't bother you, congratulations, hope you enjoy Sword and Shield. But attacking _us_ because we won't eat shit and like it? Give me a break.



Agusto101 said:


> ... at the end is only a game...


I've seen this dumb response, too. _It's just a game, why are you so mad?_ What does "just a game" even mean? Games are a form of media. We critique all other kinds of media, bad movies, bad art, bad music... And there's still the absolute dropkicks there when people are discussing how to get better media by speaking up about it, who say _"but guys, it's just [BLANK]. why do you even care?"
_
I don't know, maybe I just expect more from the media I consume. I'm investing time and money in it, why wouldn't I actively try and make it the best it can be?


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## Sheimi (Jul 16, 2019)

Watch, they will sell the pokemon that do not come in a game at several packs of dlc for 24.99USD (It's not true. But if it is, I'd eat a squid).


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> I'd personally say it's impossible to judge correctly until we actually have SwSh in our hands, since all evidence at this point is circumstantial and video-based at best (although it's definitely not in Game Freak's favor.)



So even though it's impossible to judge on circumstantial evidence, you are making a judgement.



chaoskagami said:


> I'm just not happy about the overall lack of every Pokemon, and that they seem to be attempting to deflect from this at every turn rather than just coming out and saying that it wasn't part of the plan from the beginning. I mean, if they were to just admit that, I'd be cool with it. The problem is that they aren't, and I'm doubtful that it's actually technical reasons given their budget, employee numbers and track history.



So you definitely won't be happy until they admit something that you've assumed, but have no evidence of. Where are you getting budget and employee figures and how they are being utilized from? Can you post them here so we can come to the same reasoned judgement as you?



Darth Meteos said:


> It's insulting. A core feature of the mainline series is being removed, and it's bad.



They aren't insulting you & if that is how you feel then it's more about you than them. A lot of pokemon are banned in live tournaments because they are unbalanced, they are just bringing that to the game. People have been complaining, they can't fix it all in one cycle & so they will have to put up with trolls for a while.


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## Enryx25 (Jul 16, 2019)




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## rob4 (Jul 16, 2019)

Agusto101 said:


> Can you stop already?



No



Agusto101 said:


> the game looks decent and fun



for you and your low quality standard maybe



Agusto101 said:


> but at the end is only a game



a simple game that's going to cost the same as Zelda BOTW, Mario Oddysey, The Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn, etc.



Agusto101 said:


> we are in the homebrew side we are not even to buy it



speak for yourself, buying a game is not a requirement to give an opinion, especially for a beloved franchise like pokemon



Agusto101 said:


> When it comes out we will see if the game is really that bad or it only was the people crying like always



if people weren't complaining, we would be stuck with the model of sonic presented in the trailer, without online multiplayer with friends in mario maker 2, and with mediocre media in general. This is called feedback, and modern companies need it to make better products.



Agusto101 said:


> when obviously they are going to buy it sooner or later.



I hope not, my last game bought was pokemon X, and i was really dissapointed of the result, poor quality graphics and performance (the game sucks with 3d), but i kind of lost any hope, if any future entry is developed by game freak.
If this game were developed by any other studio like Level-5, CDPR, Rockstar or Nintendo, we won't be talking about this, and probably we would have a gigantic game with lots of new features, and maybe a decent online interaction.
This franchise is so perfect for a MMO, but come on, gamefreak can't give us that, because they are a terrible studio.


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## Youkai (Jul 16, 2019)

Nah people will still buy it no matter what ... 
I actually didn't buy lots of games like Let's Go because I wasn't happy with what they did but still these games sold way to good to show them anything at all.

This Time I actually preodered Sword because I for one don't care if there are not all the mons included especially as for me it is completely ridiculous how many freaking pokemons there are already.
Ash pretty much traveled most of the world in the Original Pokemon then they added some new places where I already was like "why the hell did noone ever think about bringing Pokemon from one place to another" but adding more and more and more withouth making any sense at all anymore was stupid.

Adding ~10-20 each season would have been enough but they added more then 100 every freakin time, totaly crazy.
I am actually happy about the move not adding all the Mons.

Maybe they can add new regions trough DLC including X ammount of missing Pokemons with each new Region.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Enryx25 said:


>



What point are you trying to make. They look different to me. Superficially they look the same, but then what would you expect? You have to be able to recognize it.


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## Darth Meteos (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> They aren't insulting you


I was saying the line of argument is insulting, not the actions of the developers. I didn't get notified for this one, for some reason, so sorry about the late response.

EDIT:
Also, Pokemon being banned in tournaments? You can bring everything that isn't a legendary to official Pokemon tournaments, and those being unbalanced is the point of them, they're gods.

EDIT 2: Just looked up the current VGC ruleset. Apparently everything except Mythicals are allowed in, now. Jesus christ, I don't even want to see those battles, they'll all have Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza as staples.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Darth Meteos said:


> I was saying the line of argument is insulting, not the actions of the developers. I didn't get notified for this one, for some reason, so sorry about the late response.



The argument is the action of the developers. What you appear to be saying is that you're insulted because you've decided that they are lying, but maybe you're just wrong?


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## Darth Meteos (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> The argument is the action of the developers. What you appear to be saying is that you're insulted because you've decided that they are lying, but maybe you're just wrong?





Darth Meteos said:


> ... When fans complain, the useful suckers who'll eat anything jump on the people fighting the good fight and throw shit like this at them. "oh but think of gamefreak, it's not that big of a deal, stop the harrassment"
> It's insulting.


Here is clarification. I was saying the line of argument by people who hit back against people who are bringing their dissatisfaction to the attention of the developers by using non-arguments is insulting. I am indifferent to the original story, because it has been thoroughly proven to be false and a case of mistranslation.


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## lordelan (Jul 16, 2019)

Chary said:


> coupled with the daunting task of balancing each and every Pokemon


Balancing? Balancing only relies on data, in other words: A few integers and scripts.
Since Su/Mo had all (to that date) existent Pokémon in it, they _only_ had to add the new Pokémon data according to the old one.


Chary said:


> He also further explained that the Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing features require additional 3D models from each Pokemon, and are not simply resized versions of their existing assets.


Then why did they start with this Dynamaxing nonsense to begin with?
That time could have been spent to bring the other Pokémon.
As a sidenode: Why would they have to create 3D models for *all* dynamaxed Pokémon? A few as kind of raid bosses and for main story events would have been enough and those are already done I guess.


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## Pipistrele (Jul 16, 2019)

Darth Meteos said:


> This game is a step back. When fans complain, the useful suckers who'll eat anything jump on the people fighting the good fight and throw shit like this at them. "oh but think of gamefreak, it's not that big of a deal, stop the harrassment"
> It's insulting. A core feature of the mainline series is being removed, and it's bad. If it doesn't bother you, congratulations, hope you enjoy Sword and Shield. But attacking _us_ because we won't eat shit and like it? Give me a break.


I mean, what kind of reaction did you really expect over the whole situation? At least some subset of fans took things too far by starting flamewars, spamming hastags in all the related and unrelated places, and in couple cases actual death threats were thrown. Whether national dex removal was a good decision or not is still up to debate (maybe it's laziness, maybe it's a genuine rebalancing attempt - we'll see when the game is done), but Pokemon fandom put itself in a very moronic position with the whole thing, so naturally people are going to criticize their opinions .з.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 16, 2019)

The elitist toxicity going on here. Oof.


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## ZoNtendo (Jul 16, 2019)

i am not going to buy this game bacuse of this

but ik they are going to make a shitload of money anyway..


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## Darth Meteos (Jul 16, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> I mean, what kind of reaction did you really expect over the whole situation? At least some subset of fans took things too far by starting flamewars, spamming hastags in all the related and unrelated places, and in couple cases actual death threats were thrown. Whether national dex removal was a good decision or not is still up to debate (maybe it's laziness, maybe it's a genuine rebalancing attempt - we'll see when the game is done), but Pokemon fandom put itself in a very moronic position with the whole thing, so naturally people are going to criticize their opinions .з.


I love the way that you eased the reader into your viewpoint, too, classic trick. First you started by assuming that- as a given- _some_ people caused a big problem. Sure, the reader can allow that. Then you made a light concession about how the subject is still up for debate, ah, you're appearing to agree on some things~! but then you hit us with the whammy of "the Pokemon fandom" without qualifiers. Now the whole fandom is bad! And because the well was poisoned earlier, the opponent can't argue, because they already accepted that there was a problem! Ben Shapiro debates like this all the time.

Anyway, I agree.


Pipistrele said:


> Whether national dex removal was a good decision or not is still up to debate


Well said, I'll keep debating it.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

lordelan said:


> Balancing? Balancing only relies on data, in other words: A few integers and scripts.
> Since Su/Mo had all (to that date) existent Pokémon in it, they _only_ had to add the new Pokémon data according to the old one.



That is fine all the time you just make the same pokemon game over and over. Their new models (I don't just mean 3d models) might require all new data. That is how I am reading what they are saying.



lordelan said:


> Then why did they start with this Dynamaxing nonsense to begin with?



Because they want to bring something new?


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## lordelan (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> That is fine all the time you just make the same pokemon game over and over. Their new models (I don't just mean 3d models) might require all new data. That is how I am reading what they are saying.


No, it's still round based and not real time. A *thunder* attack still deals the same amount of damage according to sending and receiving Pokémon stats no matter *how their models look like*. 


smf said:


> Because they want to bring something new?


Valid point but if that leads to a national dex only I guess most people would have passed.
The first ever real HD Pokémon RPG with a new map and new Pokémon is enough _new stuff_.


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## Glitchk0ud1001 (Jul 16, 2019)

but all see is:


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## Borjitasstoi (Jul 16, 2019)

During lets go:
me: oh c mon why game freak ¿kanto again what about all mons you pretend in future use the same graphics from sun and moon and cut all playable pokémon?
During Sword shield trailers before E3 and three houses
me: OH YES finally a new game from core series 
During E3 Afterwards
me:oh god its happening i hate myself and i hate the idea i said this thing as a joke

i dont want tell anything from future but all i can say is diamond pearl remakes after this backlash its more posible its only playable the pokemon from first generation until the fourth no unova kalos alola or galar


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## DeoNaught (Jul 16, 2019)

Darth Meteos said:


> And here it is, the bottom of the barrel take, ladies and gentlemen. "I don't care, so you shouldn't either."
> Cue the response of "oh, i didn't mean it like that"
> Bullshit. If that's the case, then your argument isn't even an argument.


Nice, Trying to push me into a corner like that. 
I was just stating my opinion, It's cool that you care, but, I don't think it's worth crying over, yes it is MEDIA. That's why you shouldn't get your Panties in a bunch. 
Don't like it? Don't play it, Simple as that. 



Darth Meteos said:


> I love the way that you eased the reader into your viewpoint, too, classic trick. First you started by assuming that- as a given- _some_ people caused a big problem. Sure, the reader can allow that. Then you made a light concession about how the subject is still up for debate, ah, you're appearing to agree on some things~! but then you hit us with the whammy of "the Pokemon fandom" without qualifiers. Now the whole fandom is bad! And because the well was poisoned earlier, the opponent can't argue, because they already accepted that there was a problem! Ben Shapiro debates like this all the time.


I don't think that's even what he was saying, he was saying that there are some morons in the fan base, who are giving it a bad name, for example; You.



lordelan said:


> No, it's still round based and not real time. A *thunder* attack still deals the same amount of damage according to sending and receiving Pokémon stats no matter *how their models look like*.


true, but as I've said before, you still need new descriptions, Dynamax models, Where to put those pokemon. Places to put pokemon is slightly one of my concerns, because if you have too many then it's going to go get crowded.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

DeoNaught said:


> Nice, Trying to push me into a corner like that.
> I was just stating my opinion, It's cool that you care, but, I don't think it's worth crying over, yes it is MEDIA. That's why you shouldn't get your Panties in a bunch.
> Don't like it? Don't play it, Simple as that.


Are there bigger problems in the world? Of course. However, people have every right to be upset. They were looking forward to a good Pokemon game on the Switch. People have a right to their emotions.

Also, saying "I was just stating my opinion" before saying that other people "stating their opinion" are "getting their panties in a bunch" is hypocrisy.


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## Borjitasstoi (Jul 16, 2019)

Agusto101 said:


> Can you stop already? , the game looks decent and fun , maybe it's not the best maybe it doesnt have the DeX and reuse all blablabla, but at the end is only a game , it's not the end of the world of something we are in the homebrew side we are not even to buy it maybe a few will  ,so what's the point , When it comes out we will see if the game is really that bad or it only was the people crying like always when obviously they are going to buy it sooner or later.



First of all i dont want stop it i dont have low standard and i want a decent product now this fangame created this fan from pokémon using sun and moon engine and graphics

second ¿you have more rights than others making opinions than other because you buy the game and others dont? so logical apologist detected ¿how many pokemon games you played? ¿are you from 2016 then?

third people doesnt crying even in japan are pissed for this backlash EVEN in japan its the first time in story in pokémon watch how in overseas EVEN are annoyed but no crying maybe the only person are crying are you trying justify and make valuable game when its product of lazyness and pile of lyes dig his grave more deeper


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## Agusto101 (Jul 16, 2019)

Borjitasstoi said:


> First of all i dont want stop it i dont have low standard and i want a decent product now this fangame created this fan from pokémon using sun and moon engine and graphics
> 
> second ¿you have more rights than others making opinions than other because you buy the game and others dont? so logical apologist detected ¿how many pokemon games you played? ¿are you from 2016 then?
> 
> third people doesnt crying even in japan are pissed for this backlash EVEN in japan its the first time in story in pokémon watch how in overseas EVEN are annoyed but no crying maybe the only person are crying are you trying justify and make valuable game when its product of lazyness and pile of lyes dig his grave more deeper


 I played all the pokemon games you dumb ass, if you dont know me stop saying invented things  , dont say meaningless stuff please and my point here is that , "the game is decent it's no low standard by any means it's just normal you all people complaining here are so toxic and sad you cant really accept that you beloved pokemon game is not perfect " , too bad for you haha , I know perfectly that the game will sell a lot , so I really dont have to say so much...its juat obvious and it doeant matter how much you cry the game is going to be like it is.


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## pedro702 (Jul 16, 2019)

deinonychus71 said:


> Few content creator / influencers of the mass who don't actually have the game nor have played it are calling out something
> The devs say no, backed up by different translations.
> 
> The followers: "No this must be bullshit"
> ...


lets be honest people have been liead alote by most companys, and if their models are new they they did a very poor job where they look very very similar lol, why remake anything if in the end the client looks and sees no diference?


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## Deleted User (Jul 16, 2019)

lordelan said:


> No, it's still round based and not real time. A *thunder* attack still deals the same amount of damage according to sending and receiving Pokémon stats no matter *how their models look like*.
> 
> Valid point but if that leads to a national dex only I guess most people would have passed.
> The first ever real HD Pokémon RPG with a new map and new Pokémon is enough _new stuff_.


One teeny tiny problem. Think everyone is forgetting this
https://nintendoeverything.com/full...sident-on-the-lets-go-games-and-2019-entries/
letmme just post this here
– “The release in the second half of 2019 is a completely different game. This will not be an entry point into the series, but rather something that we want people who have been enjoying Pokemon games for a long time to look forward to.”
– “The game will be released for the Switch, but we have kept in mind the ‘hands on’ approach that we’ve had so far. We have also polished the graphics.”


If it's not a entry point. Why remove the pokemon? Oh wait. Because it's a entry point and gamefreak went back on their word hard. Also "POLISHED GRAPHICS"


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Lacius said:


> Are there bigger problems in the world? Of course. However, people have every right to be upset. They were looking forward to a good Pokemon game on the Switch. People have a right to their emotions.



I have a right to my emotions too, but emotions are silent.



monkeyman4412 said:


> One teeny tiny problem. Think everyone is forgetting this
> https://nintendoeverything.com/full...sident-on-the-lets-go-games-and-2019-entries/
> letmme just post this here
> – “The release in the second half of 2019 is a completely different game. This will not be an entry point into the series, but rather something that we want people who have been enjoying Pokemon games for a long time to look forward to.”
> ...



Can you explain your argument and how you came to it?


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> I have a right to my emotions too, but emotions are silent.


There's also nothing wrong with communicating one's feelings.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Lacius said:


> There's also nothing wrong with communicating one's feelings.



Sure, but people aren't talking about how they feel. They are talking about how their emotions are telling them Game Freak are evil and must be stopped at all costs.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Sure, but people aren't talking about how they feel. They are talking about how their emotions are telling them Game Freak are evil and must be stopped at all costs.


Bad decisions (and potentially lies) are subject to criticism.


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## nero99 (Jul 16, 2019)

My God all of you complaining can just shut the fuck up! It's a game, it has no effect on your life! Are you all really that uptight and entitled? First you bitch that pokemon games are all the same, now you all bitch when given something new and different.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

nero99 said:


> My God all of you complaining can just shut the fuck up! It's a game, it has no effect on your life! Are you all really that uptight and entitled? First you bitch that pokemon games are all the same, now you all bitch when given something new and different.


It's perfectly fine to complain about a game people were originally very excited about. It's disappointing.

You're the only one who is complaining about something that has no effect on your life. That's called _hypocrisy_.


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## Deleted User (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Can you explain your argument and how you came to it?


Did you even read the article?



nero99 said:


> My God all of you complaining can just shut the fuck up! It's a game, it has no effect on your life! Are you all really that uptight and entitled? First you bitch that pokemon games are all the same, now you all bitch when given something new and different.


You know... You would be right. If the company didn't lie. Masuda stated better animation, better models. That was his reason for removing pokemon. SO HE GAVE us that feeling of needing to expect more. And what happened? He didn't follow through. We aren't being entitled, we are calling out bullshit.


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## samcambolt270 (Jul 16, 2019)

nero99 said:


> My God all of you complaining can just shut the fuck up! It's a game, it has no effect on your life! Are you all really that uptight and entitled? First you bitch that pokemon games are all the same, now you all bitch when given something new and different.


Says the person who is literally, at this moment, complaining about something with no effect on their life. Its so interesting how people complain about other people complaining, and they themselves become the thing they're complaining about.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 16, 2019)

Lol complaining about a game never changed anything a company does.


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## Deleted User (Jul 16, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Lol complaining about a game never changed anything a company does.


Well it can change what people do. And companies  like money.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 16, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Well it can change what people do. And companies  like money.



Perhaps, but don't you think people are obsessing over this a bit too much, like, reaching unhealthy levels of obsession? Surely, people can use that energy towards being more productive? People are really
hung up over this, to the point of where they can't even live their lives outside of video games.


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## templeofhylia (Jul 16, 2019)

nero99 said:


> My God all of you complaining can just shut the fuck up! It's a game, it has no effect on your life! Are you all really that uptight and entitled? First you bitch that pokemon games are all the same, now you all bitch when given something new and different.



you're really embarrassing lmfao.


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## Deleted User (Jul 16, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Perhaps, but don't you think people are obsessing over this a bit too much, like, reaching unhealthy levels of obsession? Surely, people can use that energy towards being more productive? People are really
> hung up over this, to the point of where they can't even live their lives outside of video games.


Umm. source?


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## Arithmatics (Jul 16, 2019)

I like how this entire thread has turned  into a giant “he said she said”.

To be honest though the red flag for me was definitely when it was mentioned that the team is split in half. This is a core pokemon title. Why in god’s name would they not even allocate 110% of their resources?!


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## rob4 (Jul 16, 2019)

Arithmatics said:


> To be honest though the red flag for me was definitely when it was mentioned that the team is split in half. This is a core pokemon title. Why in god’s name would they not even allocate 110% of their resources?!



Or hire more people, it's Pokémon, i don't think they have money problems


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Lacius said:


> Bad decisions (and potentially lies) are subject to criticism.



Grown ups have to make difficult choices sometimes, it doesn't make them bad as it sometimes you have to balance lots of different things.

Show me some credible evidence that they are lying, all I've seen requires you to have bought into the conspiracy theory to believe it.



rob4 said:


> Or hire more people, it's Pokémon, i don't think they have money problems



Have you ever worked in software development? Often throwing more people at the problem makes things take longer. Without knowing the very fine details of the situation then it's impossible to say whether it would help or not. They are in a more qualified position to make that decision.


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## AkikoKumagara (Jul 16, 2019)

I feel like this has to be posted every few pages so it doesn't get buried...


Arithmatics said:


> I like how this entire thread has turned  into a giant “he said she said”.
> 
> To be honest though the red flag for me was definitely when it was mentioned that the team is split in half. This is a core pokemon title. Why in god’s name would they not even allocate 110% of their resources?!





rob4 said:


> Or hire more people, it's Pokémon, i don't think they have money problems



-GAME FREAK has not split their staff in half for Town. -Despite having 143 full time employees work at Game Freak, there are more who work on the games including freelancers and those at other companies like Creatures Inc who aid in development. For example SM had over 500— Joe Merrick (@JoeMerrick) July 13, 2019


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## rob4 (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Have you ever worked in software development? Often throwing more people at the problem makes things take longer. Without knowing the very fine details of the situation then it's impossible to say whether it would help or not. They are in a more qualified position to make that decision.



Yes but as a hobbyist, and more people allowed us to finish things faster, you give them task that they know to do, and explain how to do it, but obviously we were not recruiting amateurs editors.

Also, industries need to have leaderships that can delegate tasks, and a solid database of standards and procedures, so new people (new hired, but no 0 experience) can pickup tasks easily.
This doesn't apply only for manufacturing industries but also for entertainment.

So, if you have to deliver the long-awaited entry on the main series, i think you should be prepared, or simply delay the project like many companies do it to ensure quality products.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Grown ups have to make difficult choices sometimes, it doesn't make them bad as it sometimes you have to balance lots of different things.


If you're going to imply that people who voice legitimate complaints about the quality (or lack thereof) coming to these games, you should know I'm usually not interested in responding to catty remarks. Grown ups usually don't resort to petty insults.



smf said:


> Show me some credible evidence that they are lying, all I've seen requires you to have bought into the conspiracy theory to believe it.


I didn't say they lied, given the possible translation issues and/or the fact that Game Freak might be exaggerating work they did. But, we know from the Sword/Shield footage that the models were not rebuilt from scratch.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

rob4 said:


> So, if you have to deliver the long-awaited entry on the main series, you have to be prepared, or simply delay the project like many companies do it to ensure quality products



Please explain how that is not an entitled view?

They don't have to do anything, you aren't entitled to anything.



Lacius said:


> I didn't say they lied, given the possible translation issues and/or the fact that Game Freak might be exaggerating work they did. But, we know from the Sword/Shield footage that the models were not rebuilt from scratch.



The proof I saw looked like different models, so I'm not entirely sure what you know.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Please explain how that is not an entitled view?
> 
> They don't have to do anything, you aren't entitled to anything.


It's perfectly reasonable to say Game Freak can't cut corners without facing backlash.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Lacius said:


> It's perfectly reasonable to say Game Freak can't cut corners without facing backlash.



Without proof they are cutting corners and despite them saying they aren't.

It's a backlash against a perceived issue.




Lacius said:


> Grown ups usually don't resort to petty insults.



If only that were true, Game Freak would be having a much quieter time


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## rob4 (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Please explain how that is not an entitled view?
> 
> They don't have to do anything, you aren't entitled to anything.



No, they don't have to do anything, it's just my opinion.
Sorry my bad wording, i'm not a native speaker.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

rob4 said:


> No, they don't have to do anything, it's just my opinion.



Why do you hold opinions that people must do what you think and if you don't then you'll try to disrupt their business?

If the game is good then buy it, if not then don't. It's a little too early to say whether it is or not.

It could still be a great game without the entire pokedex.

If Game Freak start doing experiments on animals or dumping pollution into the sea then you can bring on your worst.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> Without proof they are cutting corners and despite them saying they aren't.
> 
> It's a backlash against a perceived issue.


Here are the facts:

The footage shows models that are largely the same as the 3DS models. At best, they've had some minor edits. At worst, they are the exact same models.
Pokemon is not Game Freak's top priority, admitted in a recent interview.
Game Freak isn't going to say, "We are cutting corners."
The 3DS models suffice on a Switch game, as seen with Let's Go.
The omission of a National Dex is not a "perceived issue."



smf said:


> Why do you hold opinions that people must do what you think and if you don't then you'll try to disrupt their business?


That's how capitalism works. If you don't like something a business is doing, you are free to complain about it and withhold your money. It's up to the business to decide if negative PR and money are reasons to change their behavior.


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## smf (Jul 16, 2019)

Lacius said:


> The footage shows models that are largely the same as the 3DS models. At best, they've had some minor edits.



What would a new model or non minor edit look like? How are you calculating how much time it would take to do a minor edit, or even just reviewing each model?



Lacius said:


> That's how capitalism works. If you don't like something a business is doing, you are free to complain about it and withhold your money.



Well the entire pokedex isn't coming back before the game launches and you won't be able to prove whether they lied until then either, so you appear to be jumping the gun somewhat.


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## rob4 (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> If the game is good then buy it, if not then don't. It's a little too early to say whether it is or not.


Of course, they showed us the game, nobody forced them, and we can have opinions of what we saw. 
The game is not finished or released, can be updated and become a different product, even post release. 
Finally you can buy it, or not, wait for reviews, buy used copies, trade, or simply decide it doesn't worth your time.



smf said:


> It could still be a great game without the entire pokedex.


I hope so



smf said:


> If Game Freak start doing experiments on animals or dumping pollution into the sea then you can bring on your worst.


I don´t think that posting my opinion in a forum is relevant or is going to affect any industry, even if the worst in the planet.


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## Lacius (Jul 16, 2019)

smf said:


> What would a new model or non minor edit look like?


What would an old model or a minor edit look like? The footage we have. What would a new model or major edit look like? Something other than the footage we have.'

Edit: It is also their fault if they were stupid enough to make new models from scratch (but they didn't), so the complaints are reasonable either way.



smf said:


> Well the entire pokedex isn't coming back before the game launches


I'm well aware we aren't getting the National Dex before launch. That's highly unlikely, unless important 3DS models is a quicker process than I thought. I'm saying there needs to be a Sword/Shield patch released around the time Pokemon Home in released.



smf said:


> and you won't be able to prove whether they lied until then either, so you appear to be jumping the gun somewhat.



I never claimed they lied. There are issues related to translation errors and how they might be classifying (embellishing) minor edits.
The Sword/Shield models are the 3DS models, with or without minor edits.


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## anhminh (Jul 17, 2019)

So... Do we still want to bring National Dex back or we just want to sink Sword and Shield along with Game Freak so no one can ever enjoy Pokemon anymore?


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## Deleted User (Jul 17, 2019)

Gamefreak isn't being entirely specific about the situation.

Will there be less Pokemon due to the game not having transfer support,which would limit you to the Pokemon you can catch and breed in the region?

Or are they saying that sword and shield will have missing Pokemon in the game files? The only way we will know that for sure is when someone data mines the game.

What I'm going to assume is that the diamond and pearl remakes will add in more missing Pokemon later on,then allow you to transfer what you have from sword and shield.Either they are doing what they did in gen 3,you would still be able to gen the missing Pokemon but then they wouldn't be legal to use online,or they are actually cutting Pokemon in the data files.


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## chaoskagami (Jul 17, 2019)

smf said:


> So even though it's impossible to judge on circumstantial evidence, you are making a judgement.



It's a fact that we aren't getting all the Pokemon, technical reasons notwithstanding. I can in fact have the opinion that it's disappointing that we're not getting every Pokemon, because that is disappointing to most Pokemon fans.



smf said:


> The argument is the action of the developers. What you appear to be saying is that you're insulted because you've decided that they are lying, but maybe you're just wrong?



Corporations are known to lie, especially when there's a PR shitstorm brewing. No offense, but taking anything a corporation says as truth is foolish.



anhminh said:


> So... Do we still want to bring National Dex back or we just want to sink Sword and Shield along with Game Freak so no one can ever enjoy Pokemon anymore?



The National Dex, obviously. Regardless of this model shitshow being used as an excuse, the lack of all Pokemon is the issue on the hotseat here, not the models.



Ominous66521 said:


> diamond and pearl remakes



You keep wishing there, buddy. That's not happening anytime soon.



the_randomizer said:


> Perhaps, but don't you think people are obsessing over this a bit too much, like, reaching unhealthy levels of obsession? Surely, people can use that energy towards being more productive? People are really
> hung up over this, to the point of where they can't even live their lives outside of video games.



If someone is that hung up on it, I'd say they have worse problems than just Pokemon and should probably seek out a psychiatrist. They might have a psychological disorder and need some medication for it.

The internet is however, a very good place to bitch and moan about literally everything, so I doubt there are very many people that are that deep into despair from this.


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## Agusto101 (Jul 17, 2019)

And this thread with no  sense are going to keep days and days,  and in what are going to reach ? Exactly nothing , so stupid keep going and dont forget to buy sword and shield when it's out hahaha.


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## Deleted User (Jul 17, 2019)

Agusto101 said:


> And this thread with no  sense are going to keep days and days,  and in what are going to reach ? Exactly nothing , so stupid keep going and dont forget to buy sword and shield when it's out hahaha.


So why contribute to nothing? Seems to me you have a issue. And I think a lot of us who are pissed are going to either pirate the game or not buy it at all.


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## Lacius (Jul 17, 2019)

Ominous66521 said:


> Gamefreak isn't being entirely specific about the situation.
> 
> Will there be less Pokemon due to the game not having transfer support,which would limit you to the Pokemon you can catch and breed in the region?
> 
> ...


Sword and Shield won't include models for the Pokemon not found in the Galar region, so getting them is impossible without a game update that adds them. So far, we have no idea if that's going to happen.



monkeyman4412 said:


> So why contribute to nothing? Seems to me you have a issue. And I think a lot of us who are pissed are going to either pirate the game or not buy it at all.


I was going to buy this game, but now I'm probably going to pirate it. The last Pokemon game I paid for was Y. Nothing else seemed worth the money.


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## Agusto101 (Jul 17, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So why contribute to nothing? Seems to me you have a issue. And I think a lot of us who are pissed are going to either pirate the game or not buy it at all.


The issue here it that this is so annoying and it dont goes to nothing , do you understand or not?.


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## Deleted User (Jul 17, 2019)

Agusto101 said:


> The issue here it that this is so annoying and it dont goes to nothing , do you understand or not?.


I don't find it annoying. Annoying is subjective, not objective. And so this is your problem. If you find it annoying why don't you go respond to something else? I don't go watch youtube video's I don't like and then say I find them annoying in the comments.


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## Agusto101 (Jul 17, 2019)

Pfff...yeah yeah keep replying 1000 times.


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## Searinox (Jul 17, 2019)

*Bullshit() method usage*

Calling Bullshit():

```
this.article.Bullshit()
```


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## osaka35 (Jul 17, 2019)

My mind has already accepted this as a "reboot" of sorts. As long as I can bring my old pokemon over eventually, this one game isn't a deal breaker for me. I mean, imagine if the original pokemon game had 800+ monsters to try and catch. 

...No wait, that'd have been pretty awesome. Nevermind, gamefreak is crazy. Just add the national dex as DLC or something, or release it in the third game.


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## Deleted User (Jul 17, 2019)

Agusto101 said:


> Pfff...yeah yeah keep replying 1000 times.


So why are you here again? I mean you know there are other threads right?


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## rob4 (Jul 17, 2019)

Agusto101 said:


> The issue here it that this is so annoying and it dont goes to nothing , do you understand or not?.



So if you think that people opinions are annoying why are you in forums and social spaces?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 17, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> My mind has already accepted this as a "reboot" of sorts. As long as I can bring my old pokemon over eventually, this one game isn't a deal breaker for me. I mean, imagine if the original pokemon game had 800+ monsters to try and catch.
> 
> ...No wait, that'd have been pretty awesome. Nevermind, gamefreak is crazy. Just add the national dex as DLC or something, or release it in the third game.


I'd hope that the national dex is coming at some point. I can see why it's an issue for people. I just can't see the reasoning for the tantrums, though.


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## Agusto101 (Jul 18, 2019)

rob4 said:


> So if you think that people opinions are annoying why are you in forums and social spaces?


Trying to change their minds but I see that's impossible haha .


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## IncredulousP (Jul 20, 2019)

I wish I cared as much as this thread about something as innocuous as a videogame.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jul 21, 2019)

RedoLane said:


> Well, it's pretty obvious, considering it jumped from the 3DS to the Switch.
> Porting the models would make them look very awkward.
> EDIT: i just dug my own grave ._.


Not at all. The models in Let's Go were all from X and Y.


osaka35 said:


> My mind has already accepted this as a "reboot" of sorts. As long as I can bring my old pokemon over eventually, this one game isn't a deal breaker for me. I mean, imagine if the original pokemon game had 800+ monsters to try and catch.
> 
> ...No wait, that'd have been pretty awesome. Nevermind, gamefreak is crazy. Just add the national dex as DLC or something, or release it in the third game.


They could easily add them through updates. I don't think they will though because that's extra work.


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