# Rumor: Wii 2 codenamed Project Café



## Terminator02 (Apr 15, 2011)

The towering pile of rumors regarding Nintendo's next generation console, supposedly to be announced at E3, continues to grow today with a report from French news site 01net (which divined the hardware specs of the NGP before its official unveiling). Citing unnamed sources, the site claims the system is currently codenamed "Project Café," and adds that it does feature hardware resembling that of the Xbox 360, such as a three-core IBM PowerPC CPU.

The real meat of the report isn't in the specs of the console, but rather, its controller. According to 01net, the peripheral will feature a six-inch single-input touchscreen -- which corroborates a similar report published by CVG yesterday. The French site also says the controller features a standard set of buttons, a front-mounted camera (what?) and can even function as a Wii sensor bar, should the player choose to indulge in the console's built-in backwards compatibility. That's actually pretty believable -- after all, the same effect can be achieved using a pair of candles.

We'll keep an ear to the ground for any additional reports of a touchscreen-infused remote for the heavily rumored console. At the very least, we can be certain that over the course of the next few nights, visions of Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles and Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures will be dancing through our heads.[/p]



Source (Joystiq)


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## machomuu (Apr 15, 2011)

Um...Project *Cafe*? Built-in Touch Screens?
...Cool.


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## Yuan (Apr 15, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Um...Project *Cafe*? Built-in Touch Screens?
> ...Cool.



Café.

Café means Coffee in portuguese.


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## Blaze163 (Apr 15, 2011)

I don't really care about the controllers right now, I'll consider things like that closer to the release of whatever the next console ends up being. Frankly the only way Nintendo can get me to care is to announce this new console at E3 with trailers for all new Starfox, Zelda, Mario, Metroid and F-Zero games, along with a proper Pokemon RPG which breaks the traditional formula and goes for something all new.


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## Sterling (Apr 15, 2011)

Yuan said:
			
		

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I guess the first hack is going to be a hot Café mod.


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## spinal_cord (Apr 15, 2011)

I think either someone is having a laugh, or Nintendo has gone a little wibbly wobbly in the head. Unless these controllers can function independently like an ipod touch or something, I can't think of any good reason for them to have a touch screen or camera.


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## Blaze163 (Apr 15, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> I think either someone is having a laugh, or Nintendo has gone a little wibbly wobbly in the head. Unless these controllers can function independently like an ipod touch or something, I can't think of any good reason for them to have a touch screen or camera.



Reason for having a touch screen and camera? Because people these days are afraid of anything new or original, therefore Nintendo has to make their new console as close to an Iphone as they can so they don't scare off the moron crowd.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 15, 2011)

Man, I'm definitely looking forward to the E3.


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## Yuan (Apr 15, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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Cafébrew Channel


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## Zarxrax (Apr 15, 2011)

I can't really envision a 6 inch touch screen on a controller. The DSi XL only had a 4.2 inch screen!!!
If that is true, the controller would have to be huge. Honestly this sounds totally outlandish, and I don't believe one bit of this is true.


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## Zarcon (Apr 15, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> I think either someone is having a laugh, or Nintendo has gone a little wibbly wobbly in the head. Unless these controllers can function independently like an ipod touch or something, I can't think of any good reason for them to have a touch screen or camera.


Think of games like Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or Zelda Four Swords Adventure.
We could see more games like that if the controller had a built in screen.
Each player could manage their own inventory without hogging up the TV.


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## nico445 (Apr 15, 2011)

if it had a touch screen and camera imagine the controller prices...


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## Terminator02 (Apr 15, 2011)

nico445 said:
			
		

> if it had a touch screen and camera imagine the controller prices...


o crap.... u just made this a lot less appealing


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## Zarxrax (Apr 15, 2011)

Zarcon said:
			
		

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The same could be done with 3ds connectivity. That would make a lot more sense, as it would encourage people to buy the handheld system as well.


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## The Milkman (Apr 15, 2011)

As long as it comes with some kind of Wii-3DS connection and comes with a traditional controller I dont give a crap if its got some type of 360 processor and a touch screen.


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## Snailface (Apr 15, 2011)

Terminator02 said:
			
		

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I wonder if the era of $100 controllers will soon be upon us? >.


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## shakirmoledina (Apr 15, 2011)

Soo if u didnt get the 3ds then a wii 2 controller will do...

And get ready for Café emulator
now this is what i wanted from nintendo, truly innovative *and puzzling*


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## machomuu (Apr 15, 2011)

Yuan said:
			
		

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I know what Cafe means, I just found it odd that they were using that name (codename rather) for a Nintendo system.


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## BloodyFlame (Apr 15, 2011)

Touch screens for controllers? Sounds a little stupid.


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## Hero-Link (Apr 15, 2011)

that whole ideia makes no sense....

a controller that is a touchscreen? Sorry i just can't believe that nonesense, i'll wait for e3.

There is gonna be tons of rumors, saying this and that... and honestly? Nintendo was always pretty good at keeping a secret (except the 3DS.... but even so they came out and talked about it before it was announced by the source that had the info on it)


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## Jax (Apr 15, 2011)

Hero-Link said:
			
		

> that whole ideia makes no sense....
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> a controller that is a touchscreen? Sorry i just can't believe that nonesense, i'll wait for e3.
> 
> There is gonna be tons of rumors, saying this and that... and honestly? Nintendo was always pretty good at keeping a secret (except the 3DS.... but even so they came out and talked about it before it was announced by the source that had the info on it)



The controller *has* a touchscreen. I doesn't mean that it lacks buttons or sticks.

I imagine it to be like the Dreamcast controller, where the VMU would be the touchscreen.


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## Warrior522 (Apr 15, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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The GameCube was codenamed the Dolphin.


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## Thoob (Apr 15, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

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It already is.


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## Nikolay (Apr 16, 2011)

Unfortunately, the Wii 2 is just going to be completely demolished tech-wise by Microsoft & Sony unless they show us a powerhouse.


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## Brannon (Apr 16, 2011)

Well a later coming console would be more powerful than this one. It's not all about the power. It is giving something that a PC can't as you cannot fight with them in terms of processing power and graphics. Too many rumours flying around to really speculate what is coming, but fingers crossed it will be something new and supported by other companies. Now as Sony and MS is copying the motion controls, Nintendo has to come up with something new. If it was all about the power (I admit it has a big meaning) than everybody would just play with a PC. If all the new console was giving me were better graphics and normal controller, I would have to just wait PS4/720 as I am not a PC gamer.


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## Ikki (Apr 16, 2011)

I don't think a touch screen in a home console controller would be convenient


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## Fishaman P (Apr 16, 2011)

Sounds expensive to me.

Frankly, this is gonna flop if that is indeed the controller.


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## Snailface (Apr 16, 2011)

Thoob said:
			
		

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Hmm. I would think that the Kinect was more of a hardware expansion than a controller, but I guess you're right. At least you only have to buy one, though, unlike the rumored Wii2 controller.


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## Nollog (Apr 16, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> I think either someone is having a laugh, or Nintendo has gone a little wibbly wobbly in the head. Unless these controllers can function independently like an ipod touch or something, I can't think of any good reason for them to have a touch screen or camera.


Face Tracking.
Also, it's Vitality Sensor 2.0 it can tell if you're tired by your facial expression!


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## KingVamp (Apr 16, 2011)

Jax said:
			
		

> The controller *has* a touchscreen. I doesn't mean that it lacks buttons or sticks.
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> I imagine it to be like the Dreamcast controller, where the VMU would be the touchscreen.


The camera wouldn't make sense, but the touch screen would.


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## rad140 (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm not going to believe anything until I see it, but I could think of crazier (more awesome?) things without even trying, like:

-the controller IS the system, with a wireless station that hooks up to your tv for big-screen gaming.
OR
the controller is portable and allows you to play games on the go, either with full capabilities or downsized ala the dreamcast VMU.

But cool rumour.


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## Snailface (Apr 16, 2011)

Wouldn't it be weird if Nintendo suddenly had the most powerful console on the market? That's almost as weird as Nintendo choosing Cafe for a project codename, lol.


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## fgghjjkll (Apr 16, 2011)

Nintendo has always impressed me with their innovative gameplay at a cheap price.
Hopefully they won't fuck this console up.


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## Ikki (Apr 16, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> Wouldn't it be weird if Nintendo suddenly had the most powerful console on the market?


Not really. Have in mind it'd be a next gen console. So, as always, they get ahead to then be overshadowed by the other companies' consoles, and then still win because of software and broad target audience.


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## coolness (Apr 16, 2011)

if this is real it gonne make skype easyer and the procerssor while help by overclocking at n64 games if it can be hacked
time to get a psp emulator 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



just out of my bed shitty typing


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## machomuu (Apr 16, 2011)

rad140 said:
			
		

> I'm not going to believe anything until I see it, but I could think of crazier (more awesome?) things without even trying, like:
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> -the controller IS the system, with a wireless station that hooks up to your tv for big-screen gaming.
> OR
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Those would both be handhelds.  I understand what you're saying, but they'd both be handhelds.


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## Slyakin (Apr 16, 2011)

What's gonna happen:

Nintendo releases information about a new type of console with innovations that are almost completely unheard of (like the touchscreen controller) and is totally underpowered.
People rage.
Nintendo tells about their upcoming release of games that includes Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc.
People cheer.
Nintendo releases.
It sells like hot cakes and soon Microsoft and Sony will release their powerhouses.
People shift.
Nintendo dies.

It's unfortunate how the last 2 steps didn't exist four years ago. But people have changed.


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## Snailface (Apr 16, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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That would be awesome. It'd be like getting two systems for the price of one. I could go for that.


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## Nollog (Apr 16, 2011)

Slyakin said:
			
		

> What's gonna happen:
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> Nintendo releases information about a new type of console with innovations that are almost completely unheard of (like the touchscreen controller) and is totally underpowered.
> People rage.
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You sure are commenting negatively in a thread about who you're commenting negatively about.
I wonder why you're commenting...

6 inch screen = too big for controller.
It's about 2 index fingers bigger than a 3DS, y'know!


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## awssk8er (Apr 16, 2011)

As much as I love Nintendo, if this is true, it looks like I won't be getting any next generation consoles.

I don't plan to buy another Sony product ever again, Microsoft would have to blow me away for me ever to support them, and maybe Sega will join in? Lol.

It's obviously way too early to tell, because none have them have been announced, but this is based off what I'm speculating.


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## nintendoom (Apr 16, 2011)

awssk8er said:
			
		

> As much as I love Nintendo, if this is true, it looks like I won't be getting any next generation consoles.
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> I don't plan to buy another Sony product ever again, Microsoft would have to blow me away for me ever to support them, and maybe Sega will join in? Lol.
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> It's obviously way too early to tell, because none have them have been announced, but this is based off what I'm speculating.


I would love Sega to join the Console Market(?) again!


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## Nah3DS (Apr 16, 2011)

*FINISH SKYWARD SWORD FIRST GODAMMIT!!!!!!!!!
*
sorry guys


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## FireGrey (Apr 16, 2011)

So who wants to go on reliable sites and make up stuff about the Wii Hd and get sites to post it?
haha jks


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## nintendoom (Apr 16, 2011)

NahuelDS said:
			
		

> *FINISH SKYWARD SWORD FIRST GODAMMIT!!!!!!!!!
> *


And The Grinder!


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## Hielkenator (Apr 16, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> Wouldn't it be weird if Nintendo suddenly had the most powerful console on the market? That's almost as weird as Nintendo choosing Cafe for a project codename, lol.
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> ? that's been the case for years, except for the Wii's life span.
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? when I bought my  NES, SNES, N64 back in the day, they were the most expensive consoles ( except for NEOGEO ).
With the innovation I agree.


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## Zorua (Apr 16, 2011)

I cant see them making a touch screen controller. Imagine how expensive it'll be. I call bull.


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## Presto99 (Apr 16, 2011)

seems expensive...I'm honestly fine with the Wii right now, and can't wait for the new Rhythm HEAVEN!!! I really don't think I'd get one right when they came out, but maybe eventually.... I won't think too hard on this though; if I want to learn about it I'll just wait till some real info's out.


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## dinofan01 (Apr 16, 2011)

I have to admit I havent had this fun watching the industry in a looooong while. But Im not taking most of these rumors seriously. Im still skeptical that Nintendo will even announce a console at E3. But I stopped trusting IGN in terms of insider information after Craig left. The people left working the Nintendo coverage are too new to have made any contacts. Nobody really knows who they are unlike the days of Casamassina. They're probably just getting people worked up or too naive to see the information they're being feed is false.


Though I must admit the idea of this console sounds really cool and I would love for most of it to be true. Everything except bluray and an hd touch screen. An sd screen would suffice and im not even sure if the touch screen would be necessary.


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## Zarxrax (Apr 16, 2011)

Not to mention that its probably not unlikely that nintendo HAS made some sort of prototype like this, because they are always working on new tech, trying to find the next big thing. Just because they are playing around with something like this doesn't mean that its going to be part of their next system.


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## CarbonX13 (Apr 16, 2011)

A touchscreen controller wouldn't be my idea for something in console gaming. Honestly, I'd hope they go back to the traditional gamepad instead.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 16, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> I think either someone is having a laugh, or Nintendo has gone a little wibbly wobbly in the head. Unless these controllers can function independently like an ipod touch or something, I can't think of any good reason for them to have a touch screen or camera.


That's actually a good idea. Infact, if such a rumor were true, I think it would be logical to  assume that the 3DS could be used as a controller for this new console. If so, that would be amazing.


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## DrOctapu (Apr 16, 2011)

Obviously we all feel like paying for a fucking DSi every time we went to let more people play Smash Bros.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 16, 2011)

project butterfly project cafe i don't believe any of them!


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## phantastic91 (Apr 16, 2011)

i hope it's at least as powerful as the ps3. But even so....if the ps4 and 360 is significantly more powerful, then the wii 2 will have crappy third party support again (for games that are multiplatform and can't be ported over to wii)  and all the sudden the wii 2 is less appealing.....(although nintendo games in hd will be badass, i bet guys would cry when zelda is in hd ps3 graphics quality).


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## ManFranceGermany (Apr 16, 2011)

Zorua said:
			
		

> I cant see them making a touch screen controller. Imagine how expensive it'll be. I call bull.




The DS touchscreen has maybe a worth of 1 dollar, its not like touchscreens are high/end stuff.
u can be sure it won|t be a HD screen, we all know Nintendo said Goodbye to high-end over 6 years ago.


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)




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## Zorua (Apr 16, 2011)

MakiManPR said:
			
		

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It looks frickin' awesome. Hope the real one looks somewhat like this mockup.


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## nintendoom (Apr 16, 2011)

MakiManPR said:
			
		

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The controller looks NGP-ish


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)

TechnoWorm said:
			
		

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Is just a mockup 
but is best one i've seen so far
6-inch screen on a controller? I can'i imagine it even bigger than the NGP(5-inch screen)


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 16, 2011)

nintendo won't put a screen on the controller cos it's already been done in the dreamcast and they don't copy


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

> nintendo won't put a screen on the controller cos it's already been done in the dreamcast and they don't copy




Have been reading?? The sources has confirmed it -_-

Here you'll find all the info that has been leaked
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427412


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## raulpica (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm sure that the controller WILL BE the screen you'll play on. The main console probably streams via Bluetooth the screen for the player directly to the controller.

You'll still rely on the main unit for the Graphics and the CPU, so it won't be an handheld.

The camera on the controller will let you use Kinect-like functionalities, while you just use traditional controls + touchscreen for playing.

Maybe the screen will even be a 3D parallax-barrier screen like the one the 3DS has? That way Nintendo could take glasses-free 3D gaming in every house, without the need for a new TV.

Remember: raulpica called it first


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)

raulpica said:
			
		

> I'm sure that the controller WILL BE the screen you'll play on. The main console probably streams via Bluetooth the screen for the player directly to the controller.
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Thats exactly what I was thinking but the 6-inch screen is killing me it will be a huge controller


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 16, 2011)

raulpica said:
			
		

> I'm sure that the controller WILL BE the screen you'll play on. The main console probably streams via Bluetooth the screen for the player directly to the controller.



If this is the case I will probably stop buying Nintendo products altogether.

EDIT: However, just a controller with a screen is a pretty nifty idea. It helps keep menus to the controller. Like for example, Fallout's Pip Boy would work well on a controller screen. Or even just keeping a map on it for Castlevania.


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)

MakiManPR said:
			
		

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And if its a HD screen how much will cost a controller $100???


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## raulpica (Apr 16, 2011)

MakiManPR said:
			
		

> And if its a HD screen how much will cost a controller $100???
> No need to be THAT much HD. After all it's just 6", it won't be that noticeable.
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EDIT2: Lol, seems this info is from yesterday, funny no one noticed that yet. I myself found about it just a few minutes ago.


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)

So many rumors and so many confusion out there I think its time for Nintendo to talk about it,to calm the masses, then in the E3 the reveal it to the world like they did with the 3DS when every website had a different rumor about it

EDIT

@raulpica
I bet almost everyone knew that already just that are just rumors and you get my point


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## trans am (Apr 16, 2011)

2 d-pads? Everything I hear about the new system seems so random.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 16, 2011)

trans am said:
			
		

> 2 d-pads? Everything I hear about the new system seems so random.



It's not really that outlandish if you think of the second D-Pad as your standard set of A/B/X/Y buttons. Although I don't really see why they wouldn't just but, you know, A/B/X/Y buttons...


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## Y05h1 (Apr 16, 2011)

Seems like the 2 d-pads was a mistake.

But what I want to know is how are they incorporating everything into one controller? Including motion controls?

Unless we need to purchase a million different controllers. That would NOT be cool.


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## KingVamp (Apr 16, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

> nintendo won't put a screen on the controller cos it's already been done in the dreamcast and they don't copy
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I doubt it. As long as the keep a button on the back, it can be use like the wii remote maybe even with nunchucks support.


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## MakiManPR (Apr 16, 2011)

The Wii 2 will be powered by AMD Trinity...wow

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510


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## Necron (Apr 16, 2011)

This is like everything we have in the market in one controller.

Better idea even: create a control that is controlled through mind, that would end all the problems of size


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## mysticwaterfall (Apr 16, 2011)

raulpica said:
			
		

> Will probably be $60-$80 per controller.



The Wii Remote Plus+nunchuck is already 50$, and yet this supposed controller with (to combine all the rumors)  a 6" hd video screen you can stream video and games to, motion controls, dual analog, a camera, and a rechargeable battery is only going to be 60-80$? In your dreams. A controller that really had all of that would be at least 100$ easy, and most  probably more.


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## machomuu (Apr 16, 2011)

mysticwaterfall said:
			
		

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I'm thinking it'll be $50.


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## awssk8er (Apr 16, 2011)

Assuming this is true, the controller better work without the console like a handheld. That would be sweet.

Edit: 

Also, I'm calling it now. The controller has a stylus slot.

Thank would make FPSs playable on consoles.


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## machomuu (Apr 16, 2011)

awssk8er said:
			
		

> Assuming this is true, the controller better work without the console like a handheld. That would be sweet.
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Do we really need FPS' on the Cafe?  Can't they just stay on the Xbox 720 and the PS4?


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## awssk8er (Apr 16, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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Not everyone is going to have more than one console.

I was saying, using the touch screen to aim is a million times better than using a controller.


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## potato3334 (Apr 17, 2011)

sounds like a stretched out ps2 controller with touch screen in middle, camera could be used for webcam or taking pictures for use in game on the spot, like the warioware dsiware game


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## mysticwaterfall (Apr 17, 2011)

I have no doubt there will be a "Wii 2" in 2012, but I certainly don't think it will be announced at E3. And I would like to remind people to take rumors with a grain of salt.

Rumors about the Wii that weren't true, reported by the gaming media:

-That it would have a touch screen controller
-That it would not have a d-pad or other traditional buttons
-That it would have a "projector" that projected the action in midair
-That it would have a "pressure sensitive" controller (similar to the back touch screen on the NGP, actually)
-That it would use HD-DVD
-That it would launch in March 2006
-That it would have a form of head tracking where you could view the action from different perspectives by moving around the room

I didn't make any of these up, and in fact you can still even find them online, for instance here at Gamepro  from June 2005.


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## FireGrey (Apr 17, 2011)

mysticwaterfall said:
			
		

> I have no doubt there will be a "Wii 2" in 2012, but I certainly don't think it will be announced at E3. And I would like to remind people to take rumors with a grain of salt.
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You can't say the whole thing is fake because of some fake rumours...


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## Sterling (Apr 17, 2011)

FireGrey said:
			
		

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He's just saying that rumors can and will be outlandish.


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## KingVamp (Apr 17, 2011)

Yea,but a regularly touch screen not 6'', but maybe like 3''-3.5''(?) would make sense.


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## VashTS (Apr 17, 2011)

i hope they make the controller have some type of mouse function, that would be sweeet for fps.  

heres looking to e3, lets see what nintendo lets us in on. cafe is an ugly code name for a system.


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## cwstjdenobs (Apr 17, 2011)

potato3334 said:
			
		

> sounds like a stretched out ps2 controller with touch screen in middle



Well the PS and 360 pads are just SNES pads with analogue...


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## jerome27 (Apr 18, 2011)

The best part is the damn thing doesn't use blew ray.

Blew ray is a still born format.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 18, 2011)

jerome27 said:
			
		

> The best part is the damn thing doesn't use blew ray.
> 
> Blew ray is a still born format.



I'm pretty sure that's HD DVD. Bluray seems to be the norm for movies nowadays, transitioning from DVD to Bluray.


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## tommzy2 (Apr 19, 2011)

PS4 = 5 ghz processor, 6 fans, 2gb graphics, 1tb hdd, support 2160p resolution (if that exists)
media = 500 gb bluray dual layer discs, online store

shits all over everything. 

(my speculation


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## muckers (Apr 19, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

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Ding.

HD-DVD has been a dead format for years, which is why Microsoft only supported it with an external drive rather than built into the Xbox 360 - they were playing it safe.


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## BlueStar (Apr 19, 2011)

muckers said:
			
		

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I don't think he meant 'dead compared to HD-DVD'.  Blu-ray is not going to have a lifespan that's even a fraction of that of VHS or DVD, I doubt it'll become even half as ubiquitous as the DVD format before it's forced out of the market by digital distribution and Bluray films go in the bargain bin with HD-DVD, UMDs and laserdiscs.  The transition will be half-complete at best, with most people skipping it.  I still don't know a single person with a Bluray player that isn't a PS3.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 19, 2011)

Just responding to some points made in this thread:
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Touch Screen? Camera? LOL SO RIDICULOUS! It will never work.*
The same was said about the features for the Wii. Now it's the best selling current-gen console as of right now.


*Touch screens work a hell of a lot better than a controller for FPS!*
Every tried to play an FPS on the DS? I'd rather have my standard controller, thanks.


Now, I'm wondering if the camera will be used for anything else. It would be kind of neat to see Augmented Reality games come to a home console.


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## Law (Apr 19, 2011)

touch screens are great for people who can't actually aim, because all they need to do is tap the guy on the screen to kill him.


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## Eerpow (Apr 20, 2011)

What if the screen is 6 cm?
Seems like a heck of a lot more plausible than the 6'' beast that's being rumored, I mean how would you hold that thing?


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## Juanmatron (Apr 20, 2011)

Project Café = Project Fake


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## Y05h1 (Apr 23, 2011)

For all those skeptics thinking 6 inches is too large... it really isn't.

There's no reason a controller couldn't be significantly wider, whilst still being comfortable. The only argument against it would be price... but Nintendo can probably get pretty cheap LCDs. The thing doesn't even need to crunch too many numbers, it is just streaming from the console...

So it might still be at a 60-80 dollar range, not over 100. 70 would seem plausible, and I would be willing to pay as much.


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## KingVamp (Apr 23, 2011)

Specially when the psp, psp2 and I'm sure the XL is around that size. 

So conformable the XL.


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