# Nintendo goes after Game & Watch hacking videos with copyright claims



## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 15, 2021)

That's just... Wow...


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## Rabbid4240 (Jan 15, 2021)

just dont hack it


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## FAST6191 (Jan 15, 2021)

Not the first time (they once pinged a Wii mod chip review around here) but they do seem to have stepped it up in recent years, even for things that are more general how it was done rather than step by step.

Not particularly sure what basis they have for this, and don't like it even being an option.

Move on over to hardened sites lads.


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## hippy dave (Jan 15, 2021)

SexySpai said:


> just dont hack it


That's exactly what a Spai from Nintendo would say


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## MrCokeacola (Jan 15, 2021)

Daily reminder that if you buy and/or support Nintendo you are low-key ok with this.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 15, 2021)

i'm amazed they haven't DMCA'd my wii hacking videos yet


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## FAST6191 (Jan 15, 2021)

hippy dave said:


> That's exactly what a Spai from Nintendo would say



Is down with hacks, is cool guy.
Says down with hacks, is Nintendo spy.


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## Hanafuda (Jan 15, 2021)

MrCokeacola said:


> Daily reminder that if you buy and/or support Nintendo you are low-key ok with this.




You can apply that to almost every product sold, with the possible exception of your local farmers' market. If you buy and/or support Apple, or Amazon, or Coca-Cola, or Microsoft, or Nike, or watch NBA games, or purchase/subscribe from any other company with significant investment in China, you are low-key ok with Uygher slave labor. A lot of big corporations (Nike, Coca-Cola, etc) have even engaged in big $$ lobbying against legislation that would require disclosure of whether a product was produced from forced Uygher labor.

It's hard being a virtuous consumer.


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## godreborn (Jan 15, 2021)

I got one of those game and watch with a slightly scalped price of $54.  it's new in box as I haven't opened it.  I haven't opened my fire emblem 30th anniversary either (bought the game on the eshop too).


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## Deleted User (Jan 15, 2021)

Excellent nintendo. Continue acting like that so I would have more and more reason not to pay for your games and just download them for free.
Don't be surprised if nintendo gonna close the switch hacking section on this website as well.


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## Hells Malice (Jan 15, 2021)

Lucky bastard is gonna get a fuckton of free subs/viewers for this.


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## Milenko (Jan 15, 2021)

I had a preview video of emuMMC before it released and a year after release it was taken down for circumvention of technological measures, I appealed and won, then was taken down the next day, and because you can't appeal twice I lost. The strike didn't say who instigated it but I can guess...

So yeah even if it's open source and just a preview video they'll still win


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## Goku1992A (Jan 15, 2021)

The better question is why do Nintendo care it's only like $50. They already put a muzzle on SXOS this seems like a waste of resources


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## Deleted User (Jan 15, 2021)

godreborn said:


> I got one of those game and watch with a slightly scalped price of $54.  it's new in box as I haven't opened it.  I haven't opened my fire emblem 30th anniversary either (bought the game on the eshop too).


it actually retails for like $50-$60 so that's not even scalped, you just paid retail price plus a tiny bit less considering taxes lol


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## godreborn (Jan 15, 2021)

I thought it was $50 at most.


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## Xzi (Jan 15, 2021)

LMAO at least the guy is taking in stride.  This and the music takedowns are way beyond the pale.  Nintendo's legal team needs to pull the sticks out of their asses.



Latiodile said:


> it actually retails for like $50-$60 so that's not even scalped, you just paid retail price plus a tiny bit less considering taxes lol


Yeah, I'm not sure it's worth the price even with all the features you can unlock by hacking it.  I mean, you can get a Wii for less than that.


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## DJPlace (Jan 15, 2021)

jeeez nintendo piss off with this copy right bull shit all ready.... just let people do what that want..... they let us slide with the NES and SNES classic but now this..... ugh.


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## godreborn (Jan 15, 2021)

DJPlace said:


> jeeez nintendo piss off with this copy right bull shit all ready.... just let people do what that want..... they let us slide with the NES and SNES classic but now this..... ugh.



actually, they sued ebay auctioneers for selling nes or snes minis loaded with games.  last time I checked, there were still a lot of those auctions though.


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## bobmcjr (Jan 15, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> You can apply that to almost every product sold, with the possible exception of your local farmers' market. If you buy and/or support Apple, or Amazon, or Coca-Cola, or Microsoft, or Nike, or watch NBA games, or purchase/subscribe from any other company with significant investment in China, you are low-key ok with Uygher slave labor. A lot of big corporations (Nike, Coca-Cola, etc) have even engaged in big $$ lobbying against legislation that would require disclosure of whether a product was produced from forced Uygher labor.
> 
> It's hard being a virtuous consumer.


Yeah normally there's a lot to consider regarding avoiding corporate shit, and people are often a few degrees removed from scummy practices, but in the case of GBATemp specifically, I'd argue there's far more a direct connection with Nintendo attacking the interests of this particular community.

I certainly have no intentions of getting a switch myself any time soon.


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## ShadowOne333 (Jan 15, 2021)

Good old asshole, Nintendo.
I was expecting it, though.

Nonetheless, hope this shades the light to more people out there to realize just the pieces of fucking shit Nintendo really is and more stop supporting their bullshit


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## VashTS (Jan 15, 2021)

well i guess other companies now have rights, based on these precedents. 

you play guitar on a Gibson? Gibson owns that music now
you make food with kitchen aid products? they now own your video where you made food with their products
used a snap-on wrench in that car fix video? you just put money in snap-ons pocket, they own it
oh you edited that video on windows? Bill Gates owns it now. 


seriously where does the line end here? he made a one time, $50 purchase with no legal or financial ramifications for future purchases. legally, they own the hardware now, they are "free" to do what they want with it. 

welcome to fascism


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## HelveticaToast (Jan 15, 2021)

I will never understand why companies don't like you modifying their product that YOU bought.


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## XDel (Jan 15, 2021)

Hey Nintendo, these people PAID for their hardware, it is their PROPERTY now. If they want to let their dog poop on it, while recording, that is their soverign right.

Why the hell is everyone acting all authoritarian lately anyhow?!?


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 15, 2021)

VashTS said:


> well i guess other companies now have rights, based on these precedents.
> 
> you play guitar on a Gibson? Gibson owns that music now
> you make food with kitchen aid products? they now own your video where you made food with their products
> ...



that is not the argument here.
the music, characters, scenarios etc of nintendo games are their property.
based on that, their aggressive us lawyers file claim after claim.
'nintendo' likely doesn't know what exactly they're doing here and they don't care much either. 'protect the copyrights and combat piracy' os probably the only directive they've ever sent across the pond.
the lawyers appear effective enough, so they keep getting paid and keep doing what they do.


like jesus, what's with all the 12 year old logic under each and every news post like this? ultimately, what they're enabling there isn't allowed. they could turn these things into nightlamps and no one would care. you enable roms on them which 99.9% are not self-dumped,you're not gonna keep your video when the lawyers get wind of it.


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## wiindsurf (Jan 15, 2021)

If I had one I'd heavily modify it with a hammer, just to make a point...


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## Crazynoob458 (Jan 15, 2021)

this is scum


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## chrisrlink (Jan 15, 2021)

just don't show you playing illegal games just showcase homebrew then you (may) have some ground to dispute crs's

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

dmca is utter bullshit they NEED to overhaul it to make hacking/homebrew (legal) allowed as it stands now they can even sue you for legit repair service (might be different soon)


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## HinaNaru Cutie (Jan 15, 2021)

Chary said:


> ​
> 
> After hacking Nintendo's Super Mario Bros. edition Game & Watch, showing how to do so, and even getting other games to run on it--DOOM among them, YouTuber stacksmashing has found some of their tutorials removed from the site. Two of the user's videos involving hacking the system were taken down from YouTube via copyright claims from Nintendo. Stacksmashing decided to fire back at Nintendo, by disputing the claims, and in the meantime, uploading highly edited video where he pokes fun at the company for going after his content. He plans to re-upload the removed videos in the future by blurring out any official gameplay footage, which according to the copyright claim, is the "reason" they were taken down.
> 
> Source




Wow you are discussing this topic - lol late but youtube has become a major dictating hitler at this point, - they will call anything they deem "bad" - and remove it off of youtube, it has happened to a homebrew youtuber i subscribed to, and others as well.

shites gone wack


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## NinStar (Jan 15, 2021)

HelveticaToast said:


> I will never understand why companies don't like you modifying their product that YOU bought.



It’s quite simple, they want to have full control of what you do with their products, that’s why things are going all digital nowadays.


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## ilikewaffles (Jan 16, 2021)

SexySpai said:


> just dont hack it


Pretty sure this guy is a Nintendo spy


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## HarveyHouston (Jan 16, 2021)

Use someplace else. Gab. Dailymotion. Vimeo. Discord. GitHub. Wordpress. Wikipedia. ANY place but YouTube is better for hacking videos!


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## scoobydude51 (Jan 16, 2021)

It’s been known for a long time that circumvention of systems have always been against Nintendo’s rules on content that is uploaded to YouTube/Twitch.

Before, during and after the Nintendo Partner Program started/ended as well.


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## osaka35 (Jan 16, 2021)

godreborn said:


> actually, they sued ebay auctioneers for selling nes or snes minis loaded with games.  last time I checked, there were still a lot of those auctions though.


yeah, that's super illegal. moddingis fine, but preloading? can't sell roms.


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## limpbiz411 (Jan 16, 2021)

just Nintendo being non consumer friendly again.


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## weatMod (Jan 16, 2021)

MrCokeacola said:


> Daily reminder that if you buy and/or support Nintendo you are low-key ok with this.


yeah that is why i  no longer buy any software, i only but hardware from them , but  will never pay for their software again


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## osaka35 (Jan 16, 2021)

weatMod said:


> yeah that is why i  no longer buy any software, i only but hardware from them , but  will never pay for their software again


buying used works too. they don't see/count those numbers.


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## chrisrlink (Jan 16, 2021)

osaka35 said:


> yeah, that's super illegal. moddingis fine, but preloading? can't sell roms.


so in general you cant resell cause it contains -gasp- roms stock


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## the_randomizer (Jan 16, 2021)

Ah yes, Nintendo, being the overly-litigious IP defending pantywaists as always. Shocking.

Could buy used games so they don't get the profits


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## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 16, 2021)

Nintendo is a shit company who makes good games/consoles (most of the time).


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## leon315 (Jan 16, 2021)

And I though China is the Master of censorship.
Nintondo: *Hold my Game&watch.*


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## MarkDarkness (Jan 16, 2021)

Nintendo corporate management has become complete scum since Iwata passed away. It was never that friendly, but they keep digging further down.


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## osaka35 (Jan 16, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> so in general you cant resell cause it contains -gasp- roms stock


lol technically true, but nintendo sanctioned. license for those roms are bound to the hardware and advertised as such, which makes it hard to argue you're distributing software without the license to do so. copyright is weird.


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## driverdis (Jan 16, 2021)

What is interesting about them taking these videos down is that this is an involved hack that requires someone to open up and solder connections to their system. The average joe is not going to do this at all, whereas some non techie people did the SNES Classic mods since it was just a usb cable and some software that made it easy.


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## orangy57 (Jan 16, 2021)

it's funny that the US has made all of this tech modification legal yet Nintendo's still trying and succeeding to take stuff like this down. The Game & Watch handheld literally can't even connect to the internet, so what does Nintendo have to lose by letting people using the device that they've bought. This is so anti-consumer that Nintendo taking the video _down _is probably hurting them since nobody wants to buy the 50 dollar handheld that can only run 1 video game from 35 years ago.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 16, 2021)

You know what I did? So Nintendo is having an eShop sale, so I bought two third party games for a total of 17 bucks. Why? Because I refuse to buy first party games. Screw em.


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## IceyyColdSnipez (Jan 16, 2021)

Sigh ninty Bever learns


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## Cylent1 (Jan 16, 2021)

NINTENDO ARE SORRY ASS MOTHERR FUCKERS!
Who still uses communist youtube anyways?


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## Xzi (Jan 16, 2021)

the_randomizer said:


> You know what I did? So Nintendo is having an eShop sale, so I bought two third party games for a total of 17 bucks. Why? Because I refuse to buy first party games. Screw em.


Sorry to have to break it to you, but Nintendo takes a 30% cut of anything sold on the eShop.


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## Randy Steele (Jan 16, 2021)

Assholes should've made a competent product and people wouldn't have had to hack it. Like maybe adding a bunch of Game and watch games rather than another copy of the same old boring SMB. This is exactly why I unashamedly pirate nintendo games.


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## DerpDingus (Jan 16, 2021)

Here I am with my 8 various portable emulating handhelds having a great time tinkering with the software and playing 1000's of pirated NES and other various games and laughing at the sorry excuse of a game library on the Nintendo Switch online service. Dont get me wrong I still have it, but its useless to me.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jan 16, 2021)

I still don't even know what the outstanding qualities that this device was supposed to exhibit, to venture off topic for a second. It has only two buttons, is riding on an important, but otherwise kind of obscure to your casual consumer brand name, and I could name plenty of other handhelds that could play more games than this that also only have two buttons.

It's still a cool display piece on a shelf, I guess.


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## Xzi (Jan 16, 2021)

Silent_Gunner said:


> I still don't even know what the outstanding qualities that this device was supposed to exhibit, to venture off topic for a second. It has only two buttons, is riding on an important, but otherwise kind of obscure to your casual consumer brand name, and I could name plenty of other handhelds that could play more games than this that also only have two buttons.


Nostalgia and/or collector's value, that's it.  $15 of the price is for the device itself, and the other $40ish is just for name recognition.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jan 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nostalgia and/or collector's value, that's it.  $15 of the price is for the device itself, and the other $40ish is just for name recognition.



I find this obsession with nostalgia to be a train whose tracks are coming to an end. I used to work at a Walmart, and they had, like, an entire section dedicated to various flashback devices like they saw what the NES/SNES mini were doing and decided to recreate that.

The problem with ALL of these flashback/mini console products is that they're all for devices for which you could play on any device nowadays that isn't a RPi1 or Zero. All of those 16-bit systems can be emulated just fine or close to full speed on systems going as far back as the PSP. Sure, the SNES emulation is shakier than a lot of other devices, but it's still close enough to full speed to be relatively comparable.

I know, there's a ton of arguments for these systems and their existence, be it their ease of use, the fact that it comes with games built-in, nostalgia, and people not wanting to resort to piracy to play some games that are "SEALED MINT CONDITION RARE!!!!!" bait on eBay, or games that are just priced really high due to people not wanting to part with them. (ALttP and Super Metroid cartridge can still go for a lot on eBay)


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jan 16, 2021)

Chary said:


> ​
> 
> After hacking Nintendo's Super Mario Bros. edition Game & Watch, showing how to do so, and even getting other games to run on it--DOOM among them, YouTuber stacksmashing has found some of their tutorials removed from the site. Two of the user's videos involving hacking the system were taken down from YouTube via copyright claims from Nintendo. Stacksmashing decided to fire back at Nintendo, by disputing the claims, and in the meantime, uploading highly edited video where he pokes fun at the company for going after his content. He plans to re-upload the removed videos in the future by blurring out any official gameplay footage, which according to the copyright claim, is the "reason" they were taken down.
> 
> Source





Im not surprised anymore


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## the_randomizer (Jan 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Sorry to have to break it to you, but Nintendo takes a 30% cut of anything sold on the eShop.



Still not gonna get first party games. Overpriced and never on sale. Over litigious pricks.


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## ELY_M (Jan 16, 2021)

Fuck Nintendo for censorship!!!!!!     censorship SUCKS!!!!


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> LMAO at least the guy is taking in stride.  This and the music takedowns are way beyond the pale.  Nintendo's legal team needs to pull the sticks out of their asses.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm not sure it's worth the price even with all the features you can unlock by hacking it.  I mean, you can get a Wii for less than that.


It's only worth it if you got it as a collectors item like I did. I plan to just put the Nintendo IP NES and GB(C) games on it, then everything else will go on my Bittboy S30. At the very least their cheap asses could've put on the USA Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Bros 3 for the price.


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## LightBeam (Jan 16, 2021)

*pretends to be shocked*


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## chrisrlink (Jan 16, 2021)

osaka35 said:


> lol technically true, but nintendo sanctioned. license for those roms are bound to the hardware and advertised as such, which makes it hard to argue you're distributing software without the license to do so. copyright is weird.


well its illegal to resell/rent in japan and they tried to push the ban here in the 90's so maybe that was their intent to use roms in the first place


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## TheZander (Jan 16, 2021)

Nintendo just doesn't like people hacking their stuff regardless. It's the way they are i doubt they pay that much to report these to YouTube. Id be weirded out if they ever condoned it or ignored it. Not to say i wasn't disappointed by this because i was kinda hoping those videos would be there for future reference. But the dude was all over the place on news sites and stuff nintendo not about to look like a bitch letting that happen so they put a stop to it.


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## raxadian (Jan 16, 2021)

In case I fid not mention this already, not buying the new Game & Watch, too much of a pain to hack and I already have a hacked 3DS.

If it had been as easy to hack as the SNES mini then yes I would have got it.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 16, 2021)

As always, Nintendo really doesn't like people playing their games or using their hardware in ways not intended. Anything that lets people "break" the game by playing in ways not intended Nintendo considers a bug. It doesn't matter what it is, could be as simple as changing/removing mechanics in Mario Maker people relied on as part of the core behavior and breaking a lot of things that were possible to do in Mario Maker 1 (with no downsides simply extending the base functionality with extra features that were only possible because those quirks existed) in the sequel. Making the removal of the online services in Mario Maker 1 a lot more significant than it would otherwise be. You have no way to transfer the stages because they just don't work in 2, and any of those unique stages are forever lost to the times now that the online services are removed, you can't share them anymore...

Something like the Backwards Long Jump in SM64 would just not happen nowadays because they would never let a bug like that slip that would allow you to skip parts of the game nowadays. That's unintended and therefore bad. They even took the trouble to patch it out of the Switch Super Mario 3D All-Stars release. Something that nobody would ever know or care is there unless they were actively using it so it's not like you can argue that leaving the bug in was leading to a lesser experience for legitimate players.

Like it or not, the BLJ has become such an integral part of SM64 history, removing it now is like releasing a port/re-release of a game but purposely changing the game in basic ways to make it different from how the original plays. Nobody wants that, they want the same old game they know and love.


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## Randy Steele (Jan 16, 2021)

Silent_Gunner said:


> on


I can actually see a lot of potential for a device like this. They could've easily filled it with every game and watch game, they could've remastered the g&w gb/gba collections for the device or basically made it into a gb mini type device. But you're right, either way it's still never going to be worth the 50 dollars US when there are so many devices these days that can do so much more for a fraction of the price. Nintendo are greedy assholes and know they can sell a mediocre device like this on name recognition alone.


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## Lv44ES_Burner (Jan 16, 2021)

I'll admit, I'm amused by the way StackSmashing chose to handle this. That video got a good solid laugh out of me this morning.


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## Deleted member 546892 (Jan 17, 2021)

Too bad nintendo, you coulda made people like you! (I love nintendo for their games, this sucks though.)


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## The Catboy (Jan 17, 2021)

SexySpai said:


> just dont hack it


Spai seems kind of sus

Big shock, the Big N getting mad at a hacker and abusing the copyright system again.


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## Pipistrele (Jan 17, 2021)

MrCokeacola said:


> Daily reminder that if you buy and/or support Nintendo you are low-key ok with this.


Or you can just, dunno, enjoy Nintendo products while not liking their business practices.


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## Pipistrele (Jan 17, 2021)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Something like the Backwards Long Jump in SM64 would just not happen nowadays because they would never let a bug like that slip that would allow you to skip parts of the game nowadays. That's unintended and therefore bad. They even took the trouble to patch it out of the Switch Super Mario 3D All-Stars release. Something that nobody would ever know or care is there unless they were actively using it so it's not like you can argue that leaving the bug in was leading to a lesser experience for legitimate players.


It's kinda more trivial than that - bug was patched out way back in 1997 in JP-exclusive Rumble Pack version, and All-Stars simply happened to use that revision of the game as a basis.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 17, 2021)

Pipistrele said:


> It's kinda more trivial than that - bug was patched out way back in 1997 in JP-exclusive Rumble Pack version, and All-Stars simply happened to include that revision of the game.


I don't think that was an accident. Especially considering they would have had to patch in English language back into the game.


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## Pipistrele (Jan 17, 2021)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I don't think that was an accident. Especially considering they would have had to patch in English language back into the game.


Well, it's not an accident, but for other reasons - Rumble version also happens to fix some minor bugs and remove mildly infamous "_So long, Gay Bowser_", so it made more sense to use it as a basis and insert the localization, rather than taking older revision and patching it all over again. In other words, Nintendo probably cared so little about BLJ that they removed it by accident and haven't noticed.


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## MrCokeacola (Jan 17, 2021)

Pipistrele said:


> Or you can just, dunno, enjoy Nintendo products while not liking their business practices.


No, that's having your cake and eating it too.


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## Pipistrele (Jan 17, 2021)

MrCokeacola said:


> No, that's having your cake and eating it too.


If making up weird-ass dilemmas, then maybe. In reality, nothing stops me from, say, enjoying and buying Nintendo hardware/games because they're legit well-made, but also participating in homebrew scene and berating Nintendo's attempts to thwart it because that's restrictive - two opinions that can co-exist perfectly.


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## ccfman2004 (Jan 17, 2021)

If Nintendo's hardware is so good then why do the Joy-Cons have that drift issue that hasn't been fixed. Nintendo's lawyers are trying to make it seem that it isn't a widespread issue.  Then those "should be illegal" arbitration clauses make it impossible to get a company to acknowledge a problem and get the courts to force them to fix it.


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## cearp (Jan 17, 2021)

> Stacksmashing decided to fire back at Nintendo, by disputing the claims, and in the meantime, uploading highly edited video where he pokes fun at the company for going after his content.


Very glad to hear, most people would never do this and be too scared - but it's the right thing to do, If Nintendo don't want their logo/game play shown, then censor in the most minimal way possible in order for them to be able to take no legal action lol.
Although I guess he lives somewhere Nintendo can't really get him (guess that from the guy's accent).


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## Don Killah (Jan 17, 2021)

Spread the word, big N is acting foolish again.


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## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

It's their property so they have the right to. I support it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Latiodile said:


> it actually retails for like $50-$60 so that's not even scalped, you just paid retail price plus a tiny bit less considering taxes lol


That's the MSRP.

We'll see for how much it goes after March.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Goku1992A said:


> The better question is why do Nintendo care it's only like $50. They already put a muzzle on SXOS this seems like a waste of resources


Would it bother you if people pirated a show/movie/song/game that you made than purchase it?


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## brunocar (Jan 17, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> Is down with hacks, is cool guy.
> Says down with hacks, is Nintendo spy.


yes


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## samcambolt270 (Jan 17, 2021)

This is something I do not understand. It's not a game console. You can't even buy games on it. Being able to hack it does not somehow take money from their pocket. If I buy it with the intent of smashing it, hacking it, or stuffing it in a drawer, I still have to buy it to do so, and therefore give them money. Why in the world do they even care!? Me or anyone else telling people how to put doom on it isn't going causing damage, nor is it illegal.


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## HideoKojima (Jan 17, 2021)

Year 2040: 

Breaking: Nintendo shuts down Youtube


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## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

samcambolt270 said:


> This is something I do not understand. It's not a game console. You can't even buy games on it. Being able to hack it does not somehow take money from their pocket. If I buy it with the intent of smashing it, hacking it, or stuffing it in a drawer, I still have to buy it to do so, and therefore give them money. Why in the world do they even care!? Me or anyone else telling people how to put doom on it isn't going causing damage, nor is it illegal.


It's like game discs: By buying it you don't own it, you're buying a license to play it.


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## samcambolt270 (Jan 17, 2021)

Boesy said:


> It's like game discs: By buying it you don't own it, you're buying a license to play it.


That's not how any of this works. First sale is very clear. When I buy an object, I have every right to do whatever I want with it. I am not buying a license to have the mario game and watch. I am buying a physical object, and nintendo has no legal right to dictate what I do with it. Besides, this isn't even the point of my post. My question is why the hell they even give a fuck. The mario game and watch is a fixed hardware device with no interchangeability, monetization or even the possibility of those things being added due to the fixed nature of the chips and software used. Me being able to hack it to add my own software to it does literally nothing to nintendo because you literally have to buy the device and therefore pay them to do it in the first place.
If I buy it to smash it with a hammer, they lose nothing. I paid them the money to do that. If I buy it to hack it and add doom to it, they still, yet again, lose nothing. It's not even the same as hacking a 3ds or a switch, where people can use it pirate software and avoid paying nintendo, which would obviously make sense for them to want to put the kibosh on videos about it. You can't buy new games for it, and they can't even update it to _allow_ them to sell you games for it. Videos about hacking it, at absolute worst, incentivize people to buy it even more.


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## godreborn (Jan 17, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> well its illegal to resell/rent in japan and they tried to push the ban here in the 90's so maybe that was their intent to use roms in the first place



actually, I think reselling is legal, at least now, in Japan.  my ds was bought used in Akihabara.  there's even a 5 story building there that's a game store where you can buy old games.  they have game commercials on tvs in there too.  I didn't buy any games, only the system at a neighboring store, and a pouch at a department store.   I think I might still have the bag somewhere.  the ds was in perfect condition too.


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## Henx (Jan 17, 2021)

I've created a rant post about this and connected issues here
https://gbatemp.net/threads/monopolies-and-games-preservation-featuring-nintendo-and-youtube.581078/


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## ccfman2004 (Jan 17, 2021)

Actually in the US, even with physical copies you don't actually own the software, only a license to use it.  You the media it's on but not the actual software.  Some people are missing the point.  Nintendo lawyers didn't file a copywrite infringement notice because of the hack. They filed it because it showed Nintendo copywrited software according to the person who uploaded the video if you read the OP.  For some unknown reason they do not like people posting videos showing off their software in action.  Many Let's Plays have been taken down due to similar complaints.  Also they do not allow you to profit from showcasing their games.  The DMCA really needs an overhaul to make provisions for fair use of this stuff as it was created way before the digital age we are currently in like YouTube.  Also in the US you can legally make a backup of something you own as long as you don't break any encryption/copy protections to due so making pretty much everything illegal to backup.


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## Henx (Jan 17, 2021)

ccfman2004 said:


> Actually in the US, even with physical copies you don't actually own the software, only a license to use it.  You the media it's on but not the actual software.  Some people are missing the point.  Nintendo lawyers didn't file a copywrite infringement notice because of the hack. They filed it because it showed Nintendo copywrited software according to the person who uploaded the video if you read the OP.  For some unknown reason they do not like people posting videos showing off their software in action.  Many Let's Plays have been taken down due to similar complaints.  Also they do not allow you to profit from showcasing their games.  The DMCA really needs an overhaul to make provisions for fair use of this stuff as it was created way before the digital age we are currently in like YouTube.  Also in the US you can legally make a backup of something you own as long as you don't break any encryption/copy protections to due so making pretty much everything illegal to backup.



I get that Nintendo is trying to protect their copyright, although they are alienating all their users and hurting them if they didn't. What I tried to convey is to tell a different story that allows them to impede content created.
Apart from what I said, changing DMCA law does nothing to protect game preservation, neither does help making backups. If you don't have the complete _iso_, there is no chance to back it up. Streaming services are destructive.

With that said, I agree the law should change to relax some fair use cases in the interest of the consumers and the community. I'm sure there is a lot of legitimate cases with passion to create and spread the love.


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## samcambolt270 (Jan 17, 2021)

ccfman2004 said:


> Actually in the US, even with physical copies you don't actually own the software, only a license to use it.


This is not accurate. You do own the software you purchase if there is not a very specific limited use license that you very specifically have to blatantly agree to. Software and digital products are in fact listed among those protected under the first sale doctrine. This includes all video games on physical media, and the majority of digitally purchased games that do not specifically have online components. Companies are not allowed to revoke use of any software legally purchased on physical media or purchased online as a wholecloth product, only revoke services. Anything you do to video games or media directly purchased, (only excluding blatantly licensed ones or ones requiring continuous purchasing upkeep) is legal as case law has directly stated numerous times. An online game can ban you for hacking, but you can do nothing to me for hacking an offline one. Even transfer of ownership of a digital product is legal as long the same number of copies exist at the end as the beginning. I can legally give you a "copy" of my ebook as long as I delete and remove my ability to access it in the process. This is what allows libraries to "loan" ebooks.


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## ccfman2004 (Jan 17, 2021)

Henx said:


> I get that Nintendo is trying to protect their copyright, although they are alienating all their users and hurting them if they didn't. What I tried to convey is to tell a different story that allows them to impede content created.
> Apart from what I said, changing DMCA law does nothing to protect game preservation, neither does help making backups. If you don't have the complete _iso_, there is no chance to back it up. Streaming services are destructive.
> 
> With that said, I agree the law should change to relax some fair use cases in the interest of the consumers and the community. I'm sure there is a lot of legitimate cases with passion to create and spread the love.


I wan't responding to you actually since I didn't quote your post.

The DMCA needs to be updated to allow game preservation by not making it illegal to backup one's game cartridge/optical media.  Although I do believe that, at least for Nintendo owned games, they keep everything as revealed by recent hacks where prototype and beta software from decades ago was found along with mountains of source code with all version control changes.  Piracy is one thing but preservation should not be illegal.


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## Henx (Jan 17, 2021)

ccfman2004 said:


> I wan't responding to you actually since I didn't quote your post.
> 
> The DMCA needs to be updated to allow game preservation by not making it illegal to backup one's game cartridge/optical media.  Although I do believe that, at least for Nintendo owned games, they keep everything as revealed by recent hacks where prototype and beta software from decades ago was found along with mountains of source code with all version control changes.  Piracy is one thing but preservation should not be illegal.



Sorry about that! I've got it the wrong.


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## samcambolt270 (Jan 17, 2021)

ccfman2004 said:


> The DMCA needs to be updated to allow game preservation by not making it illegal to backup one's game cartridge/optical media.


Fun fact, it's effectively legal already. It's a grey area as far as case law goes for keeping both the digital and physical version at the same time, but there is precedent already in case law for the allowing of digital duplication of physical media assuming you destroy the original physical media, or if the media requires an external form of drm that can physically prevent a game from ever being played again if it breaks.
For example, you are in your legal right to photocopy your book, then burn the original, or vise versa (printing a digital file, then deleting it). I doesn't actually matter how many changes in form your property takes as long as the same number exists by the end.


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## Goku1992A (Jan 17, 2021)

Boesy said:


> Would it bother you if people pirated a show/movie/song/game that you made than purchase it?



Lets all be honest with ourselves piracy in general is dying. In this situation no harm will come Nintendo's way by people trying to play Pokémon blue on a game and watch gallery system for $50. If anything it would INCREASE the sales for the device.


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## ccfman2004 (Jan 17, 2021)

samcambolt270 said:


> Fun fact, it's effectively legal already. It's a grey area as far as case law goes for keeping both the digital and physical version at the same time, but there is precedent already in case law for the allowing of digital duplication of physical media assuming you destroy the original physical media, or if the media requires an external form of drm that can physically prevent a game from ever being played again if it breaks.
> For example, you are in your legal right to photocopy your book, then burn the original, or vise versa (printing a digital file, then deleting it). I doesn't actually matter how many changes in form your property takes as long as the same number exists by the end.


Except that it doesn't really help with game preservation if you have to destroy the original once a copy has been made.  You should be able to make a backup of physical media for archival purposes where the original media can be protected from damage while the backup is use so if the backup fails you can just make another backup from the original media.  The problem is that in its current form the DCMA makes it illegal to backup physical media if it requires the user to break any kind of encryption or copy protection systems. Apps like DVD Decrypter and Requiem were both sent Cease and Desist notices and both have subsequently been discontinued to prevent any legal repercussions.


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## samcambolt270 (Jan 17, 2021)

ccfman2004 said:


> The problem is that in its current form the DCMA makes it illegal to backup physical media if it requires the user to break any kind of encryption or copy protection systems


This is not necessarily accurate, but mostly true. As I said, it's a grey area of case law. It has gone both ways. You can legally archive and preserve certain kinds of games and bypass certain forms of drm. There is actually a written exemption for the internet archive to archive games that used dongle based drms. You yourself are legally allowed to break any drm you see fit as long as you don't do it for the purposes of providing pirated content (and even then, its the providing of the content thats against the law, not the drm breaking part), but breaking it for others is something that alot of courts disagree on, unfortunately.


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## ccfman2004 (Jan 17, 2021)

samcambolt270 said:


> This is not necessarily accurate, but mostly true. As I said, it's a grey area of case law. It has gone both ways. You can legally archive and preserve certain kinds of games and bypass certain forms of drm. There is actually a written exemption for the internet archive to archive games that used dongle based drms. You yourself are legally allowed to break any drm you see fit as long as you don't do it for the purposes of providing pirated content (and even then, its the providing of the content thats against the law, not the drm breaking part), but breaking it for others is something that alot of courts disagree on, unfortunately.


This is why the DCMA need to updated to include specific cases for content preservation.  I remember that after Audio CDs came out and people had the ability to rip the music, music studios were up in arms about people ripping the music to play on their computer.

I remember this little scandal from 2005: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal


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## samcambolt270 (Jan 18, 2021)

ccfman2004 said:


> This is why the DCMA need to updated to include specific cases for content preservation.


I agree. Companies shouldn't be able to dictate the mediums on which we use the things they sell us, and they similarly shouldn't be allowed to force media into obscurity or non-existance simply because they don't feel like selling it again.


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## mive (Jan 18, 2021)

godreborn said:


> actually, they sued ebay auctioneers for selling nes or snes minis loaded with games.  last time I checked, there were still a lot of those auctions though.



On amazon (germany, probably the same in at least every european country) you can still buy a ton of these chinese retro console devices with xxxx preinstalled games (also lots of nintendo ones). But amazon isn't that easy to bully like small ebay sellers


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## ccfman2004 (Jan 18, 2021)

I had an eBay listing removed because the listing said the Switch came with a licensed copy of SX OS. I was selling the Switch as it was banned from online services. The listing never said anything about including pirated games and the like as I reformatted the device and the only thing on the SD card was the boot.dat and a backup copy of the Nand before anything was installed. It was removed because of the SX OS in the listing. This is another reason the DMCA needs to updated as SX OS has legitimate uses and not just used to play pirated games. I never pirated Switch games. All .xci files are from backups I personally made with the carts I have bought. The only reason I even bought the SX OS license was simply because I could play the .xci games without having to install them so it made it easy to add new games and delete ones I wasn’t going to play without having to wait to install them first. When it comes to installing .nsp files I’ve have nothing but issues with games larger than 4gb as the as card is FAT32 as I always had issues getting SX OS to boot if the card was exFAT.


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## CorteX_ (Jan 18, 2021)

Ahhh good old Nintendo, with behavior like this for ancient devices and many other hacking projects, them cancelling melee tournaments because it has better fanmade netcode that they are too incompetent to write, and cancelling a splatoon tournament because people were using FreeMelee in their names aka full-blown censorship, joy con drift, their horrible twitch and youtube rules and takedown notices, and them dmca'ing fullscreenmario.com and am2r and then announcing mario maker and metroid samus returns mere months later. You people that claim to want to want to boycott nintendo need to stick to their fucking word, because I'm sure a large majority will buy SM3DW + BF and probably have the game on WiiU already.


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## Jayro (Jan 18, 2021)

Maybe if they showed off the hacking without the use of NES roms in the videos, they wouldn't be struck down.


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## comput3rus3r (Jan 18, 2021)

maybe they should focus on fixing the joycons


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## Jogarr (Jan 19, 2021)

I'm glad I don't support Nintendo. I haven't bought a Nintendo product since 2013 with the 3DS.


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## ital (Jan 20, 2021)

Like I said a while back when the G&W dropped:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/gameboy-classic-mini.577276/

This hardware is a test run for their GB Mini that will be coming soon as its obvious from the overly specced screen and limited on board space as they want to sell multiple iterations of the handhelds in different colours with different games and prevent hacks/loading taking away from potential Virtual Console sales as the whole point of it will be to hype the Nintendo brand and capture lapsed gamers. 

Coming from the guy who told you DualSense = Joycon Drift for Sony before they released:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/dualsense-triggers-are-going-to-be-sonys-version-of-joycon-drift.577299/

Wait and see.


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## Retinal_FAILURE (Jan 21, 2021)

The Big N is practicing censorship of media content; I doubt that their claims of Copyright are valid, but they just have so much money, people mistake that for power and truth. They are practicing intimidation or scare tactics, and I bet if someone went up against them in a court of law N would lose.


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## CTR640 (Jan 21, 2021)

The fuck is wrong with Nintendo? Sony is not really like this, Microsoft neither but Nintendo? Holy fucking shit, they have gone wild with DMCA, Cease and Desist, sueing, hunting and much more other crap. I'm so glad I haven't bought their Switch but bummed as I like it solely to play Donkey Kong with my cousin. Fuck Nintendo!

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1f5eb923ac536bb00546aa0a3b5548a7/tenor.gif


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## ciaomao (Jan 21, 2021)

good news:


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