# "PS4" announced at Playstation Meeting 2013



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 20, 2013)

​

Sony just unveiled their latest home console, named (unsurprisingly) the Playstation 4.

There's a wealth of info, including technical specs, upcoming games (some new, some already announced, some from old franchises you'll see anew), some explanation of features, and how it will interact with developers.

You can read all the raw details in the rest of this post.

[prebreak]Continue reading[/prebreak]

*Technical Details:*



Spoiler











 
- Features 8GB of GDDR5 ram, 8-core x86 CPU
- GPU can be used as a GPGPU
- Supports Unreal Engine 4

- Features a secondary custom chip for background downloading and uploading even while gaming
- Dedicated video compression hardware so that you can upload recordings of gameplay using the Share button on the controller

*Controller (DualShock 4):*



Spoiler: Images of the Controller














Additional camera utility to sense depth







 
- Additional camera utility to sense depth
*- Touch-pad*
*- Share button* (for social interaction, can broadcast the game with a press of a button (support for UStream as well), friends can post comments, developers can insert command buttons where friends can drop certain items for you
*- Light-bar* (to identify players)

*User Interface:*



Spoiler: User interface



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The user-interface is said to feature "personalization" with tailored content as the PS4 gets to know your tastes. There is support for various video services such as Netflix, Hulu, Video and Music Unlimited, Amazon Instant Video, Cinema Now. There is also Facebook integration with the PS4 although we do not yet know the extent of that.

*Gaikai/Cloud:*

PS3 titles are not natively supported on PS4 but they are exploring the possibility of accessing PS3 games with the cloud on different Playstation devices. Thanks to Gaikai, Sony says that games can be accessed instantaneously. They also expanded this concept to Playstation and Playstation 2 games, as well as across multiple platforms.

Users can also spectate their friends' games, help them through levels, and even be given control of the game and play it themselves.

*Remote Play:*

Support with the PS Vita. Every PS4 title to be playable on the Vita. Transmission times reduced from Remote play on the PS3 so there won't be as much lag with help from Gaikai.

*Games:*

*- Developer list for the Playstation 4*
*- Killzone: Shadow Fall (Gameplay video) [1] [2] [3]*
*- Knack (Video)*
*- Drive Club (Video: WARNING: Contains erotic car porn)*
*- inFAMOUS: Second Son (Video)*
*- The Witness (Braid dev) (Gameplay video) (Timed exclusive)*
*- Deep Down (working title, new IP from Capcom) (Gameplay video)*
*- Watch_Dogs (multiplatform, Ubisoft) (Gameplay video)*
*- Diablo 3 (PS3 and PS4)*
*- Destiny (multiplatform, Activision) (Gameplay video)*: Exclusive playable content for "Playstation community". Will launch with PS3 version.

*Release Date:*

Holiday 2013.

*Price:*

*UNCONFIRMED* $429.99 retail?


A huge thanks to soulx from Guild McCommunist and the rest of the staff for the write-up!


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## Latiken (Feb 20, 2013)

Holy shit already? Just kidding.


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## nukeboy95 (Feb 20, 2013)

soulx said:


> *Controller features:*
> 
> Touch-pad
> Share button (for social interaction)
> Light-bar (to identify players)


soo its a wii u tablet


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## chris888222 (Feb 20, 2013)

So the touch pad controller is real? Damn.



nukeboy95 said:


> soo its a wii u tablet


Touch screen =/= touch pad


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## Deleted_171835 (Feb 20, 2013)

nukeboy95 said:


> soo its a wii u tablet


More like a Vita back-touch. Not touch screen.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 20, 2013)

If you don't mind keeping this updated soulx, I'll do some formatting and move it to frontpage when you're done.


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 20, 2013)

The new controller actually doesn't look that bad.




nukeboy95 said:


> soo its a wii u tablet


Read the words in front of you. It's a pad, not a screen.


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## FireEmblemGuy (Feb 20, 2013)

Apparently they learned nothing from the 3DS and Vita, because there's no way this'll be reasonably priced at those specs.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 20, 2013)

Some interesting choices (I do not know if I would have gone with 8 gigs of RAM), I eagerly await the eventual media player/DVR versions.

Also as I am too bone idle to look it up do we have proper triggers?

With this seemingly being a PC in all but name I am now actually very interested to see Microsoft's counter.


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## Latiken (Feb 20, 2013)

I think touch pads are a lot more unique then touch screens


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2013)

Latiken said:


> I think touch pads are a lot more unique then touch screens


What is your reasoning behind that?


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## chris888222 (Feb 20, 2013)

Personally, I think the console is just an overall OK. It does have pretty decent improvements, but the gap doesn't feel as big as PS2->3, Wii-> Wii U.

The only thing is the controller. The analogs look neat, but the touch pad position seems horribly awkward and chances are you need to stretch your fingers to reach it. The controller in the camera utility photo looks like a freaking dildo.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 20, 2013)

I got bored of the presentation. The controller looks horrendous. 

Also with all of that stuff they're putting into it, I can see it being a fairly expensive machine. My guess is $450.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm sorry, where's the end of the PS4 queue?


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 20, 2013)

The ability to play a game whilst it's being downloaded is rather an intriguing one, I must admit.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 20, 2013)

ProtoKun7 said:


> The ability to play a game whilst it's being downloaded is rather an intriguing one, I must admit.


 
Um.. doesn't Steam already do it though?


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 20, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Um.. doesn't Steam already do it though?


If it does I've not noticed. It's still a good feature either way though.


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## Fishaman P (Feb 20, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I got bored of the presentation. The controller looks horrendous.
> 
> Also with all of that stuff they're putting into it, I can see it being a fairly expensive machine. My guess is $450.


8GB of GDDR5 VRAM (at least I think it's on the GPU...?) and a decent x86 CPU?
We're looking at a $600+ launch price.

As for the dedicated video compression hardware, I highly doubt it uses the HEVC codec, so I'm guessing the GPU is an AMD 7000/8000 series with the dedicated H.264 encoder, which conveniently has access to the card's framebuffer.


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## McHaggis (Feb 20, 2013)

Supercharged PC architecture... awesome! x86 processor? Cool... Enhanced GPU capable of 2 teraflops... WOW! 8GB memory? Fuck me, I'm sold.  Wait... HOW MUCH!?

I realise they haven't announced a price yet but I see them making the same mistake they made with the PS3 and the Vita all over again.  I have absolutely no doubt that this is going to be a great console, but it worries me that history repeating seems all but inevitable at the moment.  I can't see it launching for less than £400 and I think that would probably be at a loss, and I won't touch it until it drops to below £300.  Another thing to think about is, even if they do launch it at less than £400, how much do you want to bet that Nintendo will announce an enticing price drop on the Wii U to coincide with that date?

All that's left now is to see what the "Durango" is like.  I usually buy Sony and Nintendo each generation, but I'm leaving my options completely open at this point.


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## weavile001 (Feb 20, 2013)

looks cool,but the price might be high as hell(or heaven).....


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## Arm73 (Feb 20, 2013)

What did I tell you a few weeks ago.........PS Vita remote play........stream PS4 games on the Vita.....I knew it !


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## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 20, 2013)

Do want.


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2013)

The price isn't going to be what you think it is. They are going to take a big lost for each system.

Just a positive guess.


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## GameWinner (Feb 20, 2013)

Still waiting for the price.
One thing that excites me is all PS4 games are going to work via Remote Play.
FINALLY!


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## chrisrlink (Feb 20, 2013)

god I hope I get a lot of $$ from gambling next week


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## Hero-Link (Feb 20, 2013)

rubbish so far.... what their showing is basically a facebook console...

can't play ps3 games, can't play ps2 games, ps1 games? I'll doubt it as well...


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2013)

New console, still more fp shooters.


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## geoflcl (Feb 20, 2013)

Interesting! Ol' Sony's really packing heat this generation, aren't they? There's a lot of different cogs working in tandem, certainly!

(As a side note, why's everyone knocking the Vita for its price? While the 3DS may cost chump change now and make the Vita seem overpriced, let's not forget that initially, _both _systems costed $250 (assuming we're talking about the Vita's Wifi-only variant). To be honest, it was Sony's best stab at competitive pricing in years! To compare the PS3 launch to the Vita's launch and act as if they made the same mistake is sort of silly! )


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## Mindzpeed (Feb 21, 2013)

So I guess that Sony decided to retire the iconic start/select button, I'll miss them


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## spiritofcat (Feb 21, 2013)

Wait, if the Vita can play PS4 games via remote play, does that make it the PS4's equivalent of the Wii-U Touchscreen Controller?


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## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2013)

I must admit no backwards compatibility sucks but the graphics are kick ass


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## Chary (Feb 21, 2013)

Uhm...I can't see how they can have a good launch price for this. I can't help but think that all those "cool" features, wont be cheap.


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

A new game by Sucker Punch?
Sold.


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## Maxternal (Feb 21, 2013)

spiritofcat said:


> Wait, if the Vita can play PS4 games via remote play, does that make it the PS4's equivalent of the Wii-U Touchscreen Controller?


Yes, sold separately for an additional $250.


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

I knew it was going to be over 400$!Have fun buying the dualshock for for over 100$. Have fun with its failure as it's going to be pissing hardcores off badly now. Wait, I'm sure that I'm going to be getting it and using it, shit.


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## spiritofcat (Feb 21, 2013)

Maxternal said:


> Yes, sold separately for an additional $250.


That's not all that much more than the Wii-U's controller is it?


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## Chary (Feb 21, 2013)

I won't be judging the system, (Besides how exorbitant the price will probably be) until I see some game footage.


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## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

spiritofcat said:


> Wait, if the Vita can play PS4 games via remote play, does that make it the PS4's equivalent of the Wii-U Touchscreen Controller?


I believe it's a bit different. The Wii U controller can stream + asymmetric gaming.

I seriously hope Sony doesn't use PS3 game streaming via Gaikai. Not everyone's Internet can handle the PS3 game capacities.


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## pokefloote (Feb 21, 2013)

Time to finally get me a PS3. Was waiting for BC so I could get two gens at once but nope.


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## LightyKD (Feb 21, 2013)

Like I said for almost two years... everything in next gen is fairly MEH. Yes, these consoles have more power but seriously, It's more of the same.


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## Maxternal (Feb 21, 2013)

spiritofcat said:


> That's not all that much more than the Wii-U's controller is it?


Actually you can get a whole Wii U WITH controller for that price.

We don't know many exact numbers yet, of course, but PS4 seems to have Wii U nailed on specs. (other than lag for remote play ... which is yet to be seen but the Wii U is usually lower latency than even the TV the console's connected to.)

It'll all come down to the price in the end ... more waiting


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## WiiUBricker (Feb 21, 2013)

> PS3 titles not natively supported on PS4 but exploring possibility of accessing PS3 games with the cloud on different Playstation devices.


Well, that does it.


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## Flame (Feb 21, 2013)

It's nice having all these specs, but damn the price is going to the same as a new house.... I will buy if it's at a reasonable price.


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## Chary (Feb 21, 2013)

No backwards compatibility as of yet. WELL GREAT.


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

Sony again copies Nintendo.

Sony is basically a Nintendo 

http://ccnerdfactory.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/brand-reversioning-sony-nintendo-logo-590x327.jpg


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## loco365 (Feb 21, 2013)

I miiiight get this. Knack looks like a ton of fun.

And I'm not really a Playstation person.


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## heartgold (Feb 21, 2013)

Catch up to current PC gaming I suppose.

Looks more of the same to me, not a big jump I was expecting. Slightly better looking games meh...still some of those footage's were 30FPS.... o_o


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## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

Chary said:


> No backwards compatibility as of yet. WELL GREAT.





> PS3 titles not natively supported on PS4 but exploring possibility of accessing PS3 games with the cloud on different Playstation devices.


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## Flame (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> Are the games supposed to look the same as current gen?


 
Are you going to be able to afford it if it's $600+?


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

This is just the beginning guys. They can push more, just on the fact that it isn't a PC.


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## BrunoAlvesMontei (Feb 21, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> What did I tell you a few weeks ago.........PS Vita remote play........stream PS4 games on the Vita.....I knew it !


 
I don't believe that every game will have compatibility with remote play, just like it happened with the PS3, the only way to play any game through RP on Vita is with a CFW on PS3 and i don't think it will be any different :\

Hope i'm wrong :\


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## Chary (Feb 21, 2013)

Someone said it was displaying at 30fps, which worries me. Was it seriously outputting that?


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## Ray Lewis (Feb 21, 2013)

How much of hardware will actually be used?  See anything after ps2.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2013)

any news about the price yet?


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

They make noise for that (move/game app), but not everything else? 
lol on the comments on move in the stream.

They have to basically start over with the move because there is no bc.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2013)

I wonder how the xbox 720 will be like


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## LightyKD (Feb 21, 2013)

Would be sooooo funny if Ono said that Monster Hunter would Neeeever come back to PlayStation


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## mysticwaterfall (Feb 21, 2013)

Price wise, Sony can't really go above 500 if they want to avoid another ps3 debacle. I would expect around 450. But then I was wrong on Vita's price.


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## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

Honestly, I doubt the price will soar above $450.

Is bluray still the PS4 medium? Just curious.


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

ARE THOSE GRAPHICS!!!!! http://www.gameinformer.com/p/201302sonylivestream.aspx
Pressed the fastfoward, life sped up.


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## LightyKD (Feb 21, 2013)

Ono San looks like the elevator guy in Gangnam Style!


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

Deep Down looks great.
Now it's Square Enix's turn.


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## Ray Lewis (Feb 21, 2013)

How much does Sony or Microsoft actually use?  They build the "Biggest" and "Baddest" but do not get into just how much the systems can do UNTIL the next one is launched, lmfao.  Seriously, look at Halo 4 and earlier 360 games (plus recent releases).  Those are NOT bad looking/playing games.  Sony, and even Microsoft to an extent, can likely take a hit on price.  "Costs cheapter than the Wii U" or "Costs as much, but look at the comparison...."  Honestly, this will drop Wii U price significantly, UNLESS Sony/Microsoft offer their beasts up at like $500 or more.  Even $400 or more in this economy world wide?  People are struggling to buy food, in the US taxes are up, "Expendable" cash is down, and the days of $150 Nintendo/Nintendo 64/Gamecube are over.  Now we need big monsters and more expensive games...and devs who don't wish to unlock those.  So lets anticipate game prices here.  $70/game?  $70+ a game; rememeber 720 is going to be "New game only" system;-)  PLUS, we have devs who want linux on systems with no access to Nand or disc drives or anything that could be used to LEVEL the playing field.  Make good games, DECENT prices, people buy them.  Or you can TRY THEM USED at a smaller risk. 

Interesting as there are a lot of "What if" situations in the future.  For all systems.  Economy could doom ALL of these systems.  DO NOT be surprised, and mark my words; the world is fighting to eat, and while entertainment matters the $500, or even $400 or more is just not going to work (translate into other currencies, not being partial to the US here).  How many rich people are there versus poor people NOW?  If PS4 numbers are WORSE than Wii U, and even 720 worse (once people realize no used games, IF this holds true and is not merely a rumor), I would bet those companies may want to reconsider their approach.


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## NiGHtS (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> wait did square just replay something from last years E3 ?


 
Because they're a bunch of lazy tarts too afraid to show anything about the games people even want a little. -_-

EDIT: FF Director on stage...hopeful...

EDIT AGAIN: FUUUUUUUUU- E3...


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

Watch this:
FINAL FANTASY VERSUS 13 PS4!


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## LightyKD (Feb 21, 2013)

Watch Dogs?


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

We've seen Watch Dogs.
I prefer a new game.


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## Mr.Kattykat (Feb 21, 2013)

Bluegh, I must say, the analog sticks and the touchpad placement are horrific. Still, even looking past the aesthetics, I doubt it will be a purchase from me (at least not for a good year or two). 8 GB of RAM is a tad unnecessary, and seems to just be overcompensating for the PS3's piddly 256MB.

Sony seem to be trying their best to shout, 'Look at us, we endorse power above all else!' Just look at the spec sheet, for God's sake. The repetition of 'PC' seems to be there solely to win back the PC crowd.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Watch Dogs looks pretty good.


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

I already saw that some hardcore pc only types want this game/system.


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## Deleted User (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> They make noise for that (move/game app), but not everything else?
> lol on the comments on move in the stream.
> 
> They have to basically start over with the move because there is no bc.


 I thought that move thing was pretty cool. Especially the presentation.


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## heartgold (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> how does one play diablo 3 on a console ?


Wii U.


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

> how does one play diablo 3 on a console ?


Simple, GAMEPAD, Wii, 360, and PS3 support keyboard and mouse!


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## Lanlan (Feb 21, 2013)

599 US dollars?


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

@LiveStream LOL 360 COMPLIMATE FAIL!


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## Hells Malice (Feb 21, 2013)

chris888222 said:


> Personally, I think the console is just an overall OK. It does have pretty decent improvements, but the gap doesn't feel as big as PS2->3, Wii-> Wii U.
> 
> The only thing is the controller. The analogs look neat, but the touch pad position seems horribly awkward and chances are you need to stretch your fingers to reach it. The controller in the camera utility photo looks like a freaking dildo.


 
Wii-> Wii U?... that's a horrendous  example.
All it did was take the wii, add an HDMI cable slot for current gen graphics, and gave you a tablet with the system.
Where's the jump?... Not knocking it, but it's a joke to say the jump was any greater than PS3 > PS4.
At least the PS4 is going to actually be a next-gen console. There's not much of a jump consoles can REALLY do anymore until they make the change over to virtual reality. Sword Art Online yesplz.


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## Mindzpeed (Feb 21, 2013)

They didn't show the console


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## NightsOwl (Feb 21, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Wii-> Wii U?... that's a horrendous example.
> All it did was take the wii, add an HDMI cable slot for current gen graphics, and gave you a tablet with the system.
> Where's the jump?... Not knocking it, but it's a joke to say the jump was any greater than PS3 > PS4.
> At least the PS4 is going to actually be a next-gen console. There's not much of a jump consoles can REALLY do anymore until they make the change over to virtual reality. Sword Art Online yesplz.


Did you seriously just imply the Wii U is as strong as the Wii? And it just added a HDMI port?

Brb, gonna laugh till I die.


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## Densetsu (Feb 21, 2013)

Just finished watching it.  Did anyone catch any mention of the price?  I had it playing in the background while doing other things and I don't remember hearing anything about it.


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

Did they even show the console off at all?


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## NightsOwl (Feb 21, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> Just finished watching it. Did anyone catch any mention of the price? I had it playing in the background while doing other things and I don't remember hearing anything about it.


I don't think so. I don't even think they SHOWED the console itself.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 21, 2013)

Boy you could drown the world with the tears in this thread ;O;


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> Just finished watching it. Did anyone catch any mention of the price? I had it playing in the background while doing other things and I don't remember hearing anything about it.


 
There was none but the guy who (correctly) leaked the PS4 controller also said it was $430.


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## 431unknown (Feb 21, 2013)

I shall have one!


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

H Malice-For the wii -> wii u comment. Oh please.

Anyway, of course no price.

( diablo 3 on a console)
Just make it for the controller and pause menu?


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## Ryupower (Feb 21, 2013)

the main console most likely not 100% done

it most likely was a dev unit used  for the show

but
we WILL see a lot more at E3


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## NightsOwl (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> so
> 
> no PS3 backwards compatibility
> totally amazing tech demos look like PS3 games


As much as I really don't like SONY, Some of those games looked nothing like PS3 graphics.


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## geoflcl (Feb 21, 2013)

NightsOwl said:


> Did you seriously just imply the Wii U is as strong as the Wii? And it just added a HDMI port?
> 
> Brb, gonna laugh till I die.


 
I guess he was saying that the Wii U is only on par with current-gen consoles. Still, Hells Malice, that's not to say that going from Wii to Wii U isn't a jump! Heck, even Nintendo Land's Hub world couldn't be done on the plain ol' Wii. 

Ontopic: That was a nifty presentation! All that third party support is really going to give the PS4 a leg-up.


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## Terenigma (Feb 21, 2013)

So things that interested me about this:

Killzone looked insanely good, transferring between vita and the PS4 was definitely something I would use. Controller looked ok although I want more details about the "touchpad" element of it, Diablo 3 local co-op split screen hinted at which is awesome.

Didn't show the actual console tho which sucks


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Oh god the crying in this thread. "THEY'RE COPYING NINTENDO", "THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD". Christ this site...

Hell I was chilling with soulx in the Shoutbox and he's leagues better than the shitlords in this thread.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 21, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Wii-> Wii U?... that's a horrendous example.
> All it did was take the wii, add an HDMI cable slot for current gen graphics, and gave you a tablet with the system.
> Where's the jump?... Not knocking it, but it's a joke to say the jump was any greater than PS3 > PS4.
> At least the PS4 is going to actually be a next-gen console. There's not much of a jump consoles can REALLY do anymore until they make the change over to virtual reality. Sword Art Online yesplz.






Spoiler



The Wii U isn't on par or doesn't exceed current gen?

Xbox 360







Wii U





"Teh Wii U doesn't haz gud gaemz


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## heartgold (Feb 21, 2013)

geoflcl said:


> I guess he was saying that the Wii U is only on par with current-gen consoles. Still, Hells Malice, that's not to say that going from Wii to Wii U isn't a jump1 Heck, even Nintendo Land's Hub world couldn't be done on the plain ol' Wii.
> 
> Ontopic: That was a nifty presentation! All that third party support is really going to give the PS4 a leg-up.


It's not on par, it's beyond. lol

Wii U is in the middle, more capable than current gen with a good GPU, PS4 is somewhere in the high end.


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

So, who else is excited for the inFamous Second Son game?
If the price is right, I think I'll get one this holiday.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Oh god the crying in this thread. "THEY'RE COPYING NINTENDO", "THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD". Christ this site...


Didn't see much of that, at least not that directly negative.  Should have see  twitch.tv stream comments tho.


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## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> so
> 
> no PS3 backwards compatibility
> totally amazing tech demos look like PS3 games


 




The day you find a PS3 game with Watch Dogs graphic something is definetly wrong


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## NightsOwl (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Oh god the crying in this thread. "THEY'RE COPYING NINTENDO", "THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD". Christ this site...
> 
> Hell I was chilling with soulx in the Shoutbox and he's leagues better than the shitlords in this thread.


I know right? I may be a Nintendo fan, but the graphics are obviously a crap ton better and they're not copying a damn thing from Nintendo. 

Some people just like to try to downplay things to make themselves less worrisome of the competition, methinks.


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Holy shit, 106 comments in 2 hours? How am I supposed to browse through this back catalog of exultation and tears?


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## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

Fucking sick of the generic trailers games have nowadays, no gameplay, forgettable "epic" music and just total mindless action with lots of explosions.
Ignoring that the system itself seems pretty promising and up to my expectations, opting for GPGPU should make next gen multiplats an interesting development, can't wait to see what happens.



Hells Malice said:


> Not knocking it, but it's a joke to say the jump was any greater than PS3 > PS4.


 I don't think anyone here would take you seriously on that haha, don't be silly.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> The day you find a PS3 game with Watch Dogs graphic something is definetly wrong


 
I found one.



Eerpow said:


> Fucking sick of the generic trailers games have nowadays, no gameplay, forgettable "epic" music and just total mindless action with lots of explosions.
> Ignoring that the system itself seems pretty promising and up to my expectations, opting for GPGPU should make next gen multiplats an interesting development, can't wait to see what happens.
> 
> I don't think anyone here would take you seriously on that haha, don't be silly.


 
Despite like... the gameplay for like... Killzone and shit like that.


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## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> you mean watch dogs a game PS3 is getting a game the Piiu is getting ?





Guild McCommunist said:


> I found one.


 
Are you guys really comparing PS3 version with PS4 version?


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> Are you guys really comparing PS3 version with PS4 version?


 
Well you said "I dare you to find a PS3 game that looks as good as Watch Dogs" when it has Watch Dogs as a game.

If you said "Killzone Shadowfall" or something it wouldn't be all that comical and an actual, hard to debate claim.


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## weavile001 (Feb 21, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> Just finished watching it. Did anyone catch any mention of the price? I had it playing in the background while doing other things and I don't remember hearing anything about it.


no, nothing.


----------



## geoflcl (Feb 21, 2013)

I know everyone holds their nose every time PlayStation Move is mentioned, But MediaMolecule's application was pretty nifty! Never mind the creepy, lifeless dancing and jamming, the actual sculpting aspect was splendid! 

(Of course, that's assuming it's really as intuitive as they were making it seem!)


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Wii-> Wii U?... that's a horrendous  example.
> All it did was take the wii, add an HDMI cable slot for current gen graphics, and gave you a tablet with the system.
> Where's the jump?... Not knocking it, but it's a joke to say the jump was any greater than PS3 > PS4.
> At least the PS4 is going to actually be a next-gen console. There's not much of a jump consoles can REALLY do anymore until they make the change over to virtual reality. Sword Art Online yesplz.


Why is Wii -> Wii U jump a horrible example? I am not being brand specific, I am talking about a jump in generation. Wii U redesigned the main controller (tab) used it for an extra form of gameplay, enhanced processing + massive jump in RAM/GPU over the predecessor and HD/3D output. Wii U also had a totally revamped online system which is leagues better than the Wii (even if the old one sucks, it is STILL a jump in generation)

As for PS3 -> PS4, perhaps I'm too demanding. Sony could have added 4k resolution support but that is just going to make the console a thousand bucks. The only thing I find intriguing is how Sony can make use of Gaikai in PS4.


----------



## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

Sony copied Nintendo by putting a controller that can fit up in my ass nicely.They also copied Nintendo by making a console,and pointless gimmicks for a standard controller that should be used only for Vibrator Remotes.


----------



## [M]artin (Feb 21, 2013)




----------



## Gabbynaruto (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, seeing that the PS4 is so "mega powerful" and so easy to work with, I truly hope devs will finally stop all the FPS madness that's been going on lately and start developing actual games that make you feel like you're the character, not some crappy Quake clones with higher textures and a different color scheme. Shooters were never innovative, why call them so. I need games, the PS3 didn't have any I liked, so, I didn't get one. Hope PS4 changes that, because it sounded pretty neat so far (and the controller looks great... minus the share button). Just... I really hope they don't plan on scraping physical copies of games just because of the cloud features. I mean, as great as "get a fraction of the game, play it whole" sounds, I still believe that fraction is at least 1 gigabyte, and with the current net I have, I'd rather play Mario Kart than wait 1 hour until my first step or first action is understood.

But, it was a pretty good presentation, preparing us all for the E3.

What I liked:
- Controller
- Specs
- Watch_Dogs
- Knack
- ATLUS' name in the list of devs - Hopefully that means at least one real Shin Megami Tensei game, not a fighter.
- Deep Down
- Moar Destiny footage

What I dislike:
- Social features (I will always say they are useless unless proven wrong, which didn't happen)
- The console learning my preferences (WTF, I don't want a... GLaDoS Facebook thingy)
- Shooters (Killzone, Destiny)
- I've seen the Luminous Engine video months ago, why reuse it for a PS4 presentation when all you prove are PC capabilities? (Or they could have at least made a new video, this one's old)
- PSV was ignored. Remote play doesn't mean sh*t when the Vita is on verge of dying.
- I kind of dislike the idea of cloud gaming.
- I also dislike the fact that people can take over my game. How the hell am I supposed to enjoy the game when little Johnny from who knows where gets me through every difficult passage?

Anyway, up next is E3. My body is Ready! And please, for your sake, show at least one tiny picture of the console itself.


----------



## Terenigma (Feb 21, 2013)

I remember watching the Wii-u announcement and stating numerous times that it will flop, after seeing this presentation blow the wii-u out the water. I can't help but think that Nintendo should just stick to handhelds, they do them well. Home consoles though, leave that to Sony and maybe Microsoft if they can deliver but atm I am totally on board with Sony. Everything about that presentation was great, even the quick "final fantasy game coming, check E3" from square enix.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

Hey, guys... Ruby_Eye_Shabran is from North Korea... Wouldn't mess with him if I were you


----------



## geoflcl (Feb 21, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> Sony copied Nintendo by putting a controller that can fit up in my ass nicely.*They also copied Nintendo by making a console*,and pointless gimmicks for a standard controller that should be used only for Vibrator Remotes.


 
I... I'm sorry, but _whaaa?_


----------



## Densetsu (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Oh god the crying in this thread. "THEY'RE COPYING NINTENDO", "THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD". Christ this site...
> 
> Hell I was chilling with soulx in the Shoutbox and he's leagues better than the shitlords in this thread.


I don't understand all the hating myself. That's like saying "OMG the Wii copied the PlayStation by putting their games on optical media!" With the direction technology is going, everyone expects some kind of touch control from every piece of consumer electronic device nowadays. Nobody is "copying" anyone, they're just going with the trend of the times.

And the graphics aren't bad at all. When people bitch about things not being up to their standards, they _*think*_ they have discriminating taste. Knock it off, people. You're hard to please not because your standards are so high; it's because you're an asshole. You're the techie equivalent of those indifferent emo bastards Squall, Cloud and Neku. Nobody is impressed by people who yawn at everything.

*EDIT*

On Topic:
PS4. Do want.


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Oh god the crying in this thread. "THEY'RE COPYING NINTENDO", "THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD". Christ this site...
> 
> Hell I was chilling with soulx in the Shoutbox and he's leagues better than the shitlords in this thread.


Did those comments get deleted?
I could only find one comment that made the connection between the new dualshock and the WiiU gamepad, and not a single negative comment concerning graphics was made in this thread. False promises man, false promises, I expected some really stupid.

Then again it's 2:30 am here so I might just have missed it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Before I head to bed...

_inb4"Graphics don't matter!" or are we at this point already? _




Guild McCommunist said:


> Oh god the crying in this thread. "THEY'RE COPYING NINTENDO", "THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD". Christ this site...
> 
> Hell I was chilling with soulx in the Shoutbox and he's leagues better than the shitlords in this thread.


Same, _we had a blast_ watching the presentation together.


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

geoflcl said:


> I... I'm sorry, but _whaaa?_


Going with his logic, I don't think even Nintendo will survive in the industry.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't understand the hate for all the social features. I doubt I'd take advantage of a lot of them, but at least they're there for those who are interested. I highly doubt that they're going to be "forced" onto players, so relax.

Is that so hard?


----------



## Sterling (Feb 21, 2013)

Wow, if the price is as the guy who leaked the controller says then we're getting a good deal for sure. TBH, I'm not sure if I like the shown features much or not. Certainly they're useful and awesome, but they're obviously bandwidth intensive and honestly I'm not sure if I could afford it. :< Anyway, the games displayed look fairly interesting, but I didn't see anything that particularly "wowed" me (Destiny aside). I'll be keeping my eye on this.


----------



## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

Graphics matter,but not as much.


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

The one thing I liked about the Share button is the ability to record gameplay. 
Not sure how to feel about someone else taking over your game but still a neat idea.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> The one thing I liked about the Share button is the ability to record gameplay.
> Not sure how to feel about someone else taking over your game but still a neat idea.


 
Don't worry about it too much; they made it clear that you would have to grant the person permission before they could take over.

Though I kind of wish they don't. We'd see a whole new dimension of griefing.


----------



## yuyuyup (Feb 21, 2013)

I think a touchpad is a great idea but DAMN that controller is ugly as shit


----------



## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

Just for everyone 

http://www.otakufreaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nintendo-cycle.png


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> Just for everyone
> 
> http://www.otakufreaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nintendo-cycle.png


What does this have to do with the PS4?


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Densetsu said:


> I don't understand all the hating myself. That's like saying "OMG the Wii copied the PlayStation by putting their games on optical media!" With the direction technology is going, everyone expects some kind of touch control from every piece of consumer electronic device nowadays. Nobody is "copying" anyone, they're just going with the trend of the times.
> 
> And the graphics aren't bad at all. When people bitch about things not being up to their standards, they _*think*_ they have discriminating taste. Knock it off, people. You're hard to please not because your standards are so high; it's because you're an asshole. You're the techie equivalent of those indifferent emo bastards Squall, Cloud and Neku. Nobody is impressed by people who yawn at everything.
> 
> ...


 





"That's all you got? I'm out of here."



GameWinner said:


> Not sure how to feel about someone else taking over your game but still a neat idea.


I actually miss that. X_X

Not something I would use, but sounds good. Doing that by online right?


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Feb 21, 2013)

The only real issue I had with the presentation was the lack of a retail price.


----------



## Joe88 (Feb 21, 2013)

I wouldn't mind that sculpture app, is that supposed to come out for ps3?
and quantic dreams' engine, *fap fap fap*



GameWinner said:


> What does this have to do with the PS4?


no idea, but all his posts in this topic are troll/pure fanboy crap
ie: its Valwin 2.0
even his sig is a troll


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Despite like... the gameplay for like... Killzone and shit like that.


I'm obviously not talking about the gameplay they did show in Killzone and Watch dogs. I'm just more irritated by the fact that the games that did peak my interest aside from Watch Dogs didn't have it, yeah I don't really give a shit about killzone.


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Not something I would use, but sounds good. Doing that by online right?


Yup, it's only by online.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> Yup, it's only by online.


 
Well, yeah. Offline, it's called "passing the controller".


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

I formatted this and bumped it to the front page but let's all give thanks to soulx for a really stellar write-up and job on accumulating this info. Really saved me a lot of time.

(note: I added the praises to the Playstation video).


----------



## geoflcl (Feb 21, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> I think a touchpad is a great idea but DAMN that controller is ugly as shit


 
We can only hope it's not a final design! The analog sticks in particular look very cheapy-cheapy. 

But at least it doesn't resemble a tribal weapon!


----------



## NightsOwl (Feb 21, 2013)

Now that I think of it, why were most of the games shown realistic. The Witness and that weird Sculpting game weren't.... but they didn't really have an art style that kicked my face in with how pretty it looked.

I really don't like realistic looking games. I hope some colorful shit comes out on the PS4.

Granted, if it costs anything over 500 dollars, I'll be waiting a long, LONG time to get one.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

Terenigma said:


> I remember watching the Wii-u announcement and stating numerous times that it will flop, after seing this presentation blow the wii-u out the water. i cant help but think that nintendo should just stick to handhelds, they do them well. Home consoles tho, leave that to sony and maybe microsoft if they can deliver but atm i am totally on board with Sony. Everything about that presentation was great, even the quick "final fantasy game coming, check E3" from square enix.


 
I found the presentation quite tedious... The are some things I liked like the fact that you can stream your game to the internet. But the presentation showed me games that I don't like to play, that don't have the visual I tend to like. Believe it or not, the number of polygons and shaders isn't what make me impressed about a game's visual. I actually prefered games like Knack and The Witness in terms of visuals btw

And what's wrong with Nintendo producing home consoles? It surely one of the most traditional companies in hardware manufacturing. No one is forcing you to buy a Wii U, my friend bought it and I enjoy playing an ocasional Zombiu or Nintendo Land game with him. So, as long as Nintendo have satisfied costumers what is the deal?


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't think it is final. We didn't even see the console itself.
I think the controller is a prototype.


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

Putting all the crap aside, I feel really okay with the PS4. 

I like the analog design. FINALLY. Thumb rests. My thumbs always slip off the PS2/3 controller analogs. The console itself: 8-core CPU with 8GB of RAM. Although it will be underused in the early age, that power and RAM will certainly be in good use as the years progress. The price is likely to be cheaper than the PS3 launch, which is wonderful.

My view on Sony is that they are a company able to push out the best of the best in the generation. PS3 was the first to push Bluray in the 7th Gen, PS Vita brought ultimate processing power in a handheld. I was a bit disappointed Sony didn't add in 4k support for the PS4, especially when Sony themselves are one of the few pushing their 4K TVs. However I do understand that adding 4k support will drive the price of the console to a high (plus who owns a 4k TV anyway? At least not now), so I'm neutral.

The games are looking good, and I'm particularly stunned by the capcom IP. PS4 is looking to become a really cool console, but I'm a bit disappointed that PS4 doesn't support true BC. It's running on a different architecture I guess. The social improvements IMO are unnecessary and the controller design is overall, poor. Nonetheless, I can still accept it.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

they made a super powerful console but the games look exactly the same as pc and wiiu (and will be the same on the 720 too) which is exactly what I predicted would happen with this next gen.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

NightsOwl said:


> Now that I think of it, why were most of the games shown realistic. The Witness and that weird Sculpting game weren't.... but they didn't really have an art style that kicked my face in with how pretty it looked.
> 
> I really don't like realistic looking games. I hope some colorful shit comes out on the PS4.
> 
> Granted, if it costs anything over 500 dollars, I'll be waiting a long, LONG time to get one.


 
There was also Knack. And yeah, the games look "realistic" but that's just the way they are. Most of the PS3 games were that way but they're not exactly "realistic". Like MGS4 or inFamous.

Speaking of inFamous, I thought inFamous 2 was a fantastic game and Second Son looks interesting. Although that's literally just Nix's powers.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> they made a super powerful console but* the games look exactly the same as they are now which is exactly what I predicted would happen with this next gen.*


You need to go to an optician _cause you freakin' blind, bro._ It's either that or denial.


----------



## Joe88 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm guessing they would have to include ps3 hardware in it to play ps3 games thus bumping up the price
it would be nice to have 2 different versions though, one w/ bc and one without (though probably at a much higher price)


----------



## NightsOwl (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> There was also Knack. And yeah, the games look "realistic" but that's just the way they are. Most of the PS3 games were that way but they're not exactly "realistic". Like MGS4 or inFamous.
> 
> Speaking of inFamous, I thought inFamous 2 was a fantastic game and Second Son looks interesting. Although that's literally just Nix's powers.


I can't say I even remember what Knack was. 

Also, I applaud Sucker Punch, actually. Their presentation of Second Son actually made me interested in the series, whereas I was completely ignorant towards it before.


----------



## DSGamer64 (Feb 21, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I got bored of the presentation. The controller looks horrendous.
> 
> Also with all of that stuff they're putting into it, I can see it being a fairly expensive machine. My guess is $450.


 
Tack on an extra couple hundred bucks to that. Remember how much the PS3 cost at launch? 699 was the price iirc, expect it to cost AT LEAST that much.


----------



## Dork (Feb 21, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> The only real issue I had with the presentation was the lack of a retail price.


 
It's way too early for retail pricing. We haven't even seen the actual console yet.

The real problem was that no giant enemy crabs were shown. I can't play the PS4 without real battles that took place in ancient Japan.


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Speaking of inFamous, I thought inFamous 2 was a fantastic game and Second Son looks interesting. Although that's literally just Nix's powers.


Wait, that's Nix's power?
I thought it was something like red sand. Didn't really get a good look at it.


----------



## wolfmanz51 (Feb 21, 2013)

Honestly I'm glad sony very glad sony is going in this direction, it's looking much better at providing the online experience it wanted to create with ps3, or any previous sony effort.
Yet I'm left jarred too, this has very few "new" ways to add to the way we play games, at least ones that can't be done on other platforms, other than sharing video replays, and remote playing someone else's game.
In place the focus was on expanding the graphics* "*potential" of games, and offset the struggle of developers who are trying to achieve those graphics.
of the few gameplay focused trailers Kill Zone looked fantastic, it looked like a native 1080P version of previous kill zone 2&3 games, with smother graphics, and more detailed distances.
Yet it's something that could run last gen, this focus on power and expanded online capability is a great start but, i think the costs are going to be high initially.

Its exactly what i expected from sony a big phony presentation about expanding the way we play, an illusion if you will, using lots of tech demo realtime CG magic, to make us feel the magic, honestly this felt like the ps3 reveal to me, sony saying the ps4 is everything we imagined with the ps3, but now we have RAM and a faster network.
I know I will eventually get one anyways, i always buy sony consoles about 2 years after release, as third party devs figure out how to make real new experiences on it(there will be awesome gameplay+graphics). Also I'm sure Kojima's Ground Zeros just got pushed into the next gen.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> Wait, that's Nix's power?
> I thought it was something like red sand. Didn't really get a good look at it.


 
It was very striking of her powers. The teleporting and such.

I think her powers were slightly different though, they were more about sludge and stuff. This is more ash.



DSGamer64 said:


> Tack on an extra couple hundred bucks to that. Remember how much the PS3 cost at launch? 699 was the price iirc, expect it to cost AT LEAST that much.


 
If you're going to make ridiculous claims please use a source that isn't your own ass.

Thanks.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

There is going be a lot of disappointment on that 4k thing, tho I didn't think it would.

That puzzle game, was it myst?


----------



## Densetsu (Feb 21, 2013)

RodrigoDavy said:


> Hey, guys... Ruby_Eye_Shabran is from North Korea... Wouldn't mess with him if I were you


Psshh...as if North Korea has the Internet access to even get onto GBAtemp.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Look at it this way - at least we know the future now. Please, head over to the Cool-down Zone before posting hateful comments, c'mon guys...


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

There are still two unanswered questions that I'd like Sony to answer.
- Will used games be playable?
- Is PSN still free?


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Feb 21, 2013)

Does anyone have a link to a replay of the whole thing?

Also: Thank you soulx for your unbiased coverage of this event. I appreciate it.


----------



## Janthran (Feb 21, 2013)

Hey, maybe they'll finally change the controller nope


----------



## ferofax (Feb 21, 2013)

ProtoKun7 said:


> The ability to play a game whilst it's being downloaded is rather an intriguing one, I must admit.


Why do I get the feeling that it'll be like downloading a demo, then you playing the demo while the actual game is being downloaded in the background? Plus there's the fact that very few people will probably be using it much... unless the downloads take THAT long.

Also, maybe because it's I'm biased to Nintendo, but... I don't really see much here except the requisite bump-up in hardware. Of course, that's probably all they need, seeing as their core fanbase are mostly FPS graphic whores.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> There is going be a lot of disappointment on that 4k thing, tho I didn't think it would.


Don't know how things are in the first world, but here we are not even near of having 4k TVs. It's not like you can find them on sale or anything. Heck, even 3D TVs are not that common as far as I know

By the way, I found quite interesting that Sony decided to use a PC-like architecture, maybe it's trying to playing it safe by using a more well stablished architecture (over the non-developer friendly ps2 and ps3 architectures) which should make ports easy.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Feb 21, 2013)

Janthran said:


> Hey, maybe they'll finally change the controller nope


 
The only complaint that I have heard is the convex analog sticks, rather than concave. The new controller seems to fix that. 

What else is there? Are you saying they should change the controller for the sake of changing the controller? Would you rather have this?


----------



## Janthran (Feb 21, 2013)

TwinRetro said:


> The only complaint that I have heard is the convex analog sticks, rather than concave. The new controller seems to fix that.
> 
> What else is there? Are you saying they should change the controller for the sake of changing the controller? Would you rather have this?


BOOTYFAAALL

No but seriously PS2 controllers at least are uncomfortable to hold


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Janthran said:


> Hey, maybe they'll finally change the controller nope


 
TBH I kinda think having the same controller is good.

Like I don't want to rail on Nintendo but I have found a huge issue with their recent platforms is that their crazy ideas are forced onto you. Like with the Wii, you HAD to use their Wiimote. It supported Gamecube controllers and the Classic Controller but most games required the Wiimote. And that required useless motion tacked on to most games. You could say the same with the Wii U.

When you have the standard controller being a rather classic set up, it means your main games won't be interrupted by unwanted "features" like motion controls or touchscreen segments. Kinda like with the Move (on the PS3) and the Kinect, these games were segregated. So you could still enjoy them, but their features wouldn't bother your regular games.

Yes, the new controller has a touchpad, but I see it's a small feature that won't be a centerpoint, say compared to the Wii U tablet or the Wii's motion controls.

I don't want to sound like I'm railing on Nintendo, they've made fine games with those controls and some innovative ones with those controls, but there's a ton of games that suffer from it.


----------



## Janthran (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah, the Wii remote was a bit of a flop, but the change from NES to SNES was good, and the change from N64 to GC was also good.
And of course, Wii remote to Wii Pro.

Sony's only made one significant change to their controllers.. Ever. With the PS2, adding dual sticks


----------



## Prime_Zero (Feb 21, 2013)

I loved the PSX, and PS2, the PS3 was a complete failure to me and I have to say.. this one looks like it will to. It just might be best if sony gives up and lets the playstation rest in peace as one of those great consuls of the past....

But hey, here's to hoping it has some great games! ..... ... ... I hope.....


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> borderline railing


 
If devs didn't want to use it or can't use it well, the least they could do is put all the menus and Ui on the controller.



Prime_Zero said:


> the PS3 was a complete failure to me and I have to say.. this one looks like it will to.


Are you serious? Why is it a failure to you?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

nothing will change 95% of the games will by multiplat just like it is now


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Feb 21, 2013)

Janthran said:


> Yeah, the Wii remote was a bit of a flop, but the change from NES to SNES was good, and the change from N64 to GC was also good.
> And of course, Wii remote to Wii Pro.
> 
> Sony's only made one significant change to their controllers.. Ever. With the PS2, adding dual sticks


 
Actually that was added with the PS1 with the original Dual Shock. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> nothing will change 95% of the games will by multiplat just like it is now


 


Spoiler











 
No tears now, only dreams.


----------



## Devin (Feb 21, 2013)

So anyone in for a pool bet.  Everyone guesses the price of the PS4, sends me the money. Closest person to the actual price gets the pool.

Only catch is that we have to get enough money for  me I mean the winner to get a PS4. 

On a more serious note, I enjoyed the presentation. And commenting about it with people in the shoutbox.


----------



## Janthran (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't use those for tears


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

Janthran said:


> Yeah, the Wii remote was a bit of a flop, but the change from NES to SNES was good, and the change from N64 to GC was also good.
> And of course, Wii remote to Wii Pro.
> 
> Sony's only made one significant change to their controllers.. Ever. With the PS2, adding dual sticks


Actually the change was when they released the DualShock for the orginal Playstation. (Few games supported it, but it's the same desing as the one used in PS2)


----------



## Janthran (Feb 21, 2013)

RodrigoDavy said:


> Actually the change was when they released the DualShock for the orginal Playstation. (Few games supported it, but it's the same desing as the one used in PS2)


Stop correcting me my point still stands :|


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Devin said:


> So anyone in for a pool bet.  Everyone guesses the price of the PS4, sends me the money. Closest person to the actual price gets the pool.
> 
> Only catch is that we have to get enough money for me I mean the winner to get a PS4.
> 
> On a more serious note, I enjoyed the presentation. And commenting about it with people in the shoutbox.


 
Like it's probably $430 USD. That's the current rumor and it has quite a lot of credit now that it's source also leaked the PS4 controller.


----------



## geoflcl (Feb 21, 2013)

Prime_Zero said:


> ...PS3 was a complete failure to me and I have to say.. this one looks like it will to. It just might be best if sony gives up and lets the playstation rest in peace as one of those great consuls of the past....


 
You'd do well to explain!


----------



## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Official Gif of the Conference:


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

RodrigoDavy said:


> Don't know how things are in the first world, but here we are not even near of having 4k TVs. It's not like you can find them on sale or anything. Heck, even 3D TVs are not that common as far as I know
> 
> By the way, I found quite interesting that Sony decided to use a PC-like architecture, maybe it's trying to playing it safe by using a more well stablished architecture (over the non-developer friendly ps2 and ps3 architectures) which should make ports easy.


3D TVs are ubiquitous in Singapore. Since Sony is all about "future" and they DO have a 4k TV on display (I think for sale as well) over here at Orchard, they could certainly consider adding 4k into the PS4. 

But it's just too early. 

Yes, the PC architecture kinda surprised me there. I remember the PS3 structure to be really weird and unique. I guess devs now have an easier time on the PS4.


----------



## Janthran (Feb 21, 2013)

Actually a touchpad is a pretty significant change.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

I'd also like to just make a few notes on the developer list (image from the front page):







Falcom: prowler boner alert.
Yager: I'd love a good Spec Ops: The Line type game.
No Kojima Productions. Konami is on there though, dunno if that covers Kojima Productions too. EDIT: Just surprised there's no Kojima Productions due to the mysterious Phantom Pain, MGS: Ground Zeroes, and they have a VERY distinct logo.
Platinum Games.
Grasshopper Manufacture aka Suda51. No More Heroes, stuff like that.
LucasArts: Star Wars 1313?
I'm really surprised they got Sony on board.
More:


Paradox Interactive: really surprising as they've basically been a PC publisher.
Level-5. Never found their games too interesting but they did the recent Ni no Kuni which got exclusively localized for the PS3.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 21, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Official Gif of the Conference:


You could repopulate the earth with the amount of semen I produced during the conference.


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

I really think the PS4 will not be more than $500. Sony said that they didn't want to repeat the mistake they had with the PS3.
Remember the Vita's launch when everyone thought it would be $300-$400? (3G is $300 but still)


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> I really think the PS4 will not be more than $500. Sony said that they didn't want to repeat the mistake they had with the PS3.
> Remember the Vita's launch when everyone thought it would be $300-$400? (3G is $300 but still)


My guess would be $429 for the base model (maybe 350GB or so?) and $499 for the higher-end.


----------



## Devin (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Like it's probably $430 USD. That's the current rumor and it has quite a lot of credit now that it's source also leaked the PS4 controller.


 
$430 is my bet. Not to  shabby a price either.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> so the same people that always makes games for them but not only that for every other console ?


 
Well there's some interesting ones (like Paradox) but it's a strong indicator of games to come. Like Falcom, you can expect a Legend of Heroes or Ys possibly. Platinum Games is always anticipated, stuff like that.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, I might as well empty out my bank account now and preorder this bitch. I will be getting this at launch. 

Sorry, Microsoft, I have different needs now, and you don't even come close to fulfilling them.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> Paradox seem strange to be there their games aren't really Console friendly


 
Exactly my point.

Also still putting spaces before question marks Stevetry?


----------



## Gh0sti (Feb 21, 2013)

They pulled a Nintendo and only showed the controller like Nintendo did with the Wii U im impressed with specs but it must be super expensive plus Piracy might be a thing of the past since games are going to be download only


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Ruby_Eye_Shabran said:


> Paradox seem strange to be there their games aren't really Console friendly


 
A console unfriendly developer developing for consoles? It's almost a Paradox.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Wow, the level of jaded views around here... not jaded, made entirely of jade.

The show was great, what's the issue? Don't like what you saw? Play with your own toys then or head to the Cool-Down Zone.

And just to be clear, the EoF Thread is not fanboyish - it's anti-fanboyish. If you come to a thread with the sole intention to make it unpleasant, you deserve to be ridiculed.


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

TwinRetro said:


> Well, I might as well empty out my bank account now and preorder this bitch. I will be getting this at launch.
> 
> Sorry, Microsoft, I have different needs now, and you don't even come close to fulfilling them.


One thing which pisses me most: paid online. I do not want to pay for a NEED in gaming. It's like paying for air.

They are likely going to integrate some Windows 8 elements into the console as well. Screw that.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Gh0sti said:


> They pulled a Nintendo and only showed the controller like Nintendo did with the Wii U im impressed with specs but it must be super expensive plus Piracy might be a thing of the past since games are going to be* download only*


I didn't get that from the presentation. Even so, the downloads will be too big. That will end it for most people.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> I didn't get that from the presentation. Even so, the downloads will be too big. That will end it for most people.


Being able to download as you play might remedy this a little... But for people who don't have a fast and stable internet connection this is bad news


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Did it actually say all games are download-only or are we just bullshitting?

I did miss part of the conference (the beginning of the Gaikai part) when I was feeding my dogs and eating pizza.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Did it actually say all games are download-only or are we just bullshitting?
> 
> I did miss part of the conference (the beginning of the Gaikai part) when I was feeding my dogs and eating pizza.


There was no mention of physical media, however there was also no mention of digital-distribution only. So yeah, bullshit.


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## wolfmanz51 (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> There was no mention of physical media, however there was also no mention of digital-distribution only. So yeah, bullshit.


there was mention of Optical Discs(bluray?or something like Wii U with the same storage capacity as BR but 3x read speed), and digital


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 21, 2013)

A lot of information out there in the wild is still just pure speculation. The price? Speculation. Game media delivery, physical or digital? Speculation. Whether or not it will have a system put in place to combat used games? Speculation. Whether online will be pay-to-play like Xbox Live? Whole heaping truckfulls of speculation.


----------



## Issac (Feb 21, 2013)

soulx said:


> A huge thanks to soulx from Guild McCommunist and the rest of the staff for the write-up!


 
I thought I'd never see this sentence ever in my life O_O 

Nice write-up! So Watch_Dogs for PS4 eh? Or both PS3 and 4? (I missed that part of the stream)


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Issac said:


> Nice write-up! So Watch_Dogs for PS4 eh? Or both PS3 and 4? (I missed that part of the stream)


 
Both, as well as Xbox 360 (previously announced) and also announced for Wii U and PC.


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## Jan1tor (Feb 21, 2013)

spiritofcat said:


> Wait, if the Vita can play PS4 games via remote play, does that make it the PS4's equivalent of the Wii-U Touchscreen Controller?


Sort of the only difference would be Wii U comes with the controller and the ps4 you still have to buy the vita unless you already have it, that is one hell of an extra cost. And will there be much if any lag time cause it is being used as a client.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Issac said:


> Nice write-up! So Watch_Dogs for PS4 eh? Or both PS3 and 4? (I missed that part of the stream)


 
PS3, PS4, 360, PC, and Wii U (I can't find the link, but one of the developers outright confirmed the Wii U version after the conference, so there's the end of that non-mystery).


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## BORTZ (Feb 21, 2013)

I am relatively underwhelmed. To be completely honest, the biggest draw here for me is being able to play every PS4 game on a Vita. I know, I am a total weirdo and can't see the forest for the trees.


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## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm still wondering how the R2, L2, R3, and L3 buttons will be used on the Vita. The rear touchpad can't do everything. Touch screen maybe?


----------



## BORTZ (Feb 21, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> I'm still wondering how the R2, L2, R3, and L3 buttons will be used on the Vita. The rear touchpad can't do everything. Touch screen maybe?


you couldn't map the R3 buttons to the back of the Vita?


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## Jan1tor (Feb 21, 2013)

I was watching and waiting for something to really WOW me but it just didn't happen. The new menu looks more like my Xbox now.  Playing while downloading seems kind of neat but I'd hate to have a slow internet connection. No mention of any 3D either, thought that might pop up. Would make use of the sensor bar for depth a lot better. All in all it was just kind of ehhh to me. I'm glad I have all 3 current systems so I probably won't invest in it.


----------



## kristianity77 (Feb 21, 2013)

Not massively impressed by that.  Killzone has been said to have been running on an actual PC and not on any PS4 dev hardware.  Square Enix presentation rehashed last years E3 demo, no difference whatsoever.  Watch Dogs as someone else above mentioned was also admitted in the aftershow to be running on a PC that was "scaled" to simulate a PS4.  doesn't seem like there was hardly anything running in real time on legit hardware to me that actually showed anything of value.  Capcom's engine looked very nice I thought (although again, could be pre render and nothing like what the engine will run like)

I don't feel like I really know anything about the PS4 than I did before i watched it, it was all smoke and mirrors


----------



## GameWinner (Feb 21, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> you couldn't map the R3 buttons to the back of the Vita?


I don't remember, some buttons could be mapped but I forgot. Remote Play right now is useless without a hacked PS3 sadly.


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## triassic911 (Feb 21, 2013)

Loving the new PS4 but I wish it had hardware-based backwards compatibility. The controller looks cool but I am wondering how it will feel when it is actually in use...? Either way, this will be a day-one purchase for me.


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## ferofax (Feb 21, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Wii-> Wii U?... that's a horrendous example.
> All it did was take the wii, add an HDMI cable slot for current gen graphics, and gave you a tablet with the system.
> Where's the jump?... Not knocking it, but it's a joke to say the jump was any greater than PS3 > PS4.
> At least the PS4 is going to actually be a next-gen console. There's not much of a jump consoles can REALLY do anymore until they make the change over to virtual reality. Sword Art Online yesplz.


I LOL'd. I really did. So just because the Wii U is still underpowered, does that mean it's not next-gen? Well, we'll all see in the end what happens, won't we?


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 21, 2013)

ferofax said:


> I LOL'd. I really did. So just because the Wii U is still underpowered, does that mean it's not next-gen? Well, we'll all see in the end what happens, won't we?


 
It'd be wise for you to ignore Hells Malice. If it isn't anime, nothing makes him happy.


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## Forstride (Feb 21, 2013)

No start button.

LOL


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## lordrand11 (Feb 21, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I got bored of the presentation. The controller looks horrendous.
> 
> Also with all of that stuff they're putting into it, I can see it being a fairly expensive machine. My guess is $450.


 
I'm taking a little more of a high-sided approach and moving more towards a 699 to 799 price point. Especially with it either having a dual gpu or a really high end gpu.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

with the price this thing is gonna end up being just use the $ to build yourself a REAL gaming pc instead


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## AceWarhead (Feb 21, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> with the price this thing is gonna end up being just use the $ to build yourself a REAL gaming pc instead


Maybe that'll be it...

CUSTOM MADE PS4'S: CHOOSE FROM HARDWARE CHOICES PROVIDED!


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## chavosaur (Feb 21, 2013)

Stoked.
Out of my mind.
Cannot wait to experience this bad boy.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 21, 2013)

It will be expensive as shit...
As I expected... the games they shown today don't look 3214251 gazillion teraflops times better. So, right now, it's not worth the price... but it will be in the future.

This is the kind of console you get 2-3 years after release when the price drops and the games get better.

btw... the controller looks as shit as always


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

In other news, 



> Just after announcement, Sony sent out a press release (via Engadget) announcing a PlayStation App for iOS, which will serve as a second-screen experience app, much like Microsoft's Xbox SmartGlass.



It's for android too btw.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/20...nd-screen-experience-playstation-app-for-ios/

inb4COPYWIIU


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## chyyran (Feb 21, 2013)

I am appalled at the lack of GIANT ENEMY CRABS in this evening's meeting.

Sony, where are my crabs?

Anyways, gonna wait out on this one, probably going to get a WiiU or a PS3 first, if I'm even going to pick this up in the future.


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## BAHIM Z 360 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm pretty sure they will include only A/V cables with it too 

Lol that aside,I like the d-pad on the controller although not a big fan of the rubberized grips (It might get sticky from dust)

Meh I can imagine that they're gonna sell it for 450~500$ when it gets launched


----------



## chavosaur (Feb 21, 2013)




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## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm quite excited for the PS4 really. Nintendo consoles have really poor pricing and support in Singapore (Wii U basic is $450++). At least Sony has adequate repair and service centers here and their prices make more sense.


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## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Not sure if it's a Day 1 purchase for me (depends a lot on my financial situation at the time), but I do see myself buying this. I'm about to get a 360 just have the last few games I want to play playable (and get a few good PC controllers), so the next phase is pretty much next gen or perhaps a SNES too.

As for the console and games, please let it be region free! That way we could enjoy games that never make it to Europe fro the States and vice versa. Totally digging the PS3/PSVita region free.

Move integration looks interesting. I wonder how that'll work and if old Move accessories work (camera, controllers).

EDIT: Why the hate for the specs? The last few years we've heard of people complaining "The console specs and architecture are old as dinosaurs, 720p lol I HAEV 1080p". Now that the console generation is taking a huge leap from most console makers (waiting for that new 720), you people complain that it'll just be the same old. I guess you guys have a PC from the 90's then if specs don't matter to you since they don't bring anything new..


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## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Confirmed to have BluRay 6X (8X for DVD)

That's one mystery less, innit? Also contains some basic AMD "Jaguar" chip specs.


----------



## gokujr1000 (Feb 21, 2013)

Who called it!? Oh wait, everyone...


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## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Confirmed to have BluRay 6X (8X for DVD)
> 
> That's one mystery less, innit? Also contains some basic AMD "Jaguar" chip specs.


Surprised it didn't go the Bluetooth 4.0 way. That'd have saved a bunch in battery usage (though probably due to the standard not being 100% done yet).

EDIT:[environmental hippie] While the console has AV out, I hope they include a HDMI cable versus an AV cable. The AV cables are probably the same ones since the PS generation and there are a ton of those circulating already [/environmental hippie].

Deserves a separate mention: The PS4 will not block used games. (Via ArsTechnica)
Additional info on the Controller


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

gokujr1000 said:


> Who called it!? Oh wait, everyone...


how much do you reckon it will be here on launch remember the ps3 was $900


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## beta4attack (Feb 21, 2013)

Looks great so far... Until the price, that is ;_; But with all those specs there's a big chance it won't be that cheap. In any case, none of the games they showed really interested me, so I guess I might wait for some more games to be announced  Although, in my opinion, I think the PS3 -> PS4 leap isn't as big as PS2 -> PS3, only time will tell, plus the fact that it's still the beginning of its life.
What worries me as a Nintendo fan is that this might mean the end of the third-party support, once again... >.<


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## YayMii (Feb 21, 2013)

lordrand11 said:


> I'm taking a little more of a high-sided approach and moving more towards a 699 to 799 price point. Especially with it either having a dual gpu or a really high end gpu.


It's not actually that high end... they already stated that the GPU is 1.84TFLOPS (which, by my estimations, is around the power of a $180 PC GPU). The 8-core AMD CPUs are around $200, and since the CPU and GPU are going to be on the same chip, I'd assume that it would be cheaper to produce. A $400-500 price range seems about right, and I doubt Sony's going to make the same mistake they did with the PS3 launch ($599 USD).


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 21, 2013)

YayMii said:


> It's not actually that high end... they already stated that the GPU is 1.84TFLOPS (which, by my estimations, is around the power of a $180 PC GPU). The 8-core AMD CPUs are around $200, and since the CPU and GPU are going to be on the same chip, I'd assume that it would be cheaper to produce. A $400-500 price range seems about right, and I doubt Sony's going to make the same mistake they did with the PS3 launch ($599 USD).


 

But you gotta remember, Sony's gotta make up for it when it comes to advertising, production, shipping etc.


----------



## spinal_cord (Feb 21, 2013)

ProtoKun7 said:


> The ability to play a game whilst it's being downloaded is rather an intriguing one, I must admit.


My Commodore 64 could do that in the 1980s.


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## bowlofspiders (Feb 21, 2013)

http://www.issonydoomed.com/
I believe they are.


----------



## FireGrey (Feb 21, 2013)

This might be good once it gets games.
The PS3 though doesn't have an amazing library and I can imagine this having a smaller library due to sony going downhill in terms of games.


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## DiscostewSM (Feb 21, 2013)

YayMii said:


> It's not actually that high end... they already stated that the GPU is 1.84TFLOPS (which, by my estimations, is around the power of a $180 PC GPU). The 8-core AMD CPUs are around $200, and since the CPU and GPU are going to be on the same chip, I'd assume that it would be cheaper to produce. A $400-500 price range seems about right, and I doubt Sony's going to make the same mistake they did with the PS3 launch ($599 USD).


 
Also got to take into account the software it'll be running alongside the games, like everything involving social interaction.

I wasn't entirely impressed by the conference, but I'm sure we'll hear more when E3 comes around.


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## Pong20302000 (Feb 21, 2013)

it's OK guys, Sony knows how to cure the worldwide recession when pockets are tight
release the most expensive console


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## Osha (Feb 21, 2013)

Watch it bomb like the Vita because developers don't want to make games for a console nobody wants to buy for such a high price (which it's going to have, sure the hardware doesn't go over 500 bucks, which is already a lot to me, but they need to make profit out of it).


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

spinal_cord said:


> My Commodore 64 could do that in the 1980s.


invader load!


----------



## Hadrian (Feb 21, 2013)

Huh, so my 5 year old PC already blows this out of the water. Interesting, I always thought the "next gen" wouldn't be that much of an improvement.  Also Blast Processor>Supercharged

Let's see what Microsoft has in store, I really doubt they would go with higher specs especially with people shying away from high console prices...and yet they'll pay so much for a tablet.


----------



## 431unknown (Feb 21, 2013)

chris888222 said:


> In other news,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't watch the whole presentation but I did see the part when the were talking about streaming and I remember the guy saying about getting streaming Playstation content on more than just the Vita. This could possibly lead to streaming games to iOS and android devices.


----------



## shoyrumaster11 (Feb 21, 2013)

Hadrian said:


> Let's see what Microsoft has in store, I really doubt they would go with higher specs especially with people shying away from high console prices...and yet they'll pay so much for a tablet.


 
At least now, Microsoft won't make the mistake of coming first! (Dreamcast, Xbox 360, Wii U) While I sure do hope to buy a PS4 and whatever good games that there could be for it (Elder Scrolls Online, Portal 3, etc...) I also hope the Xbox 720 can beat the PS4 in processing speeds, hard disk capacity, etc... And a HUGE thumbs up to Nintendo for their efforts to make the Wii U a great console!


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## Pong20302000 (Feb 21, 2013)

shoyrumaster11 said:


> At least now, Microsoft won't make the mistake of coming first! (Dreamcast, Xbox 360, Wii U) While I sure do hope to buy a PS4 and whatever good games that there could be for it (Elder Scrolls Online, Portal 3, etc...) I also hope the Xbox 720 can beat the PS4 in processing speeds, hard disk capacity, etc... And a HUGE thumbs up to Nintendo for their efforts to make the Wii U a great console!


 
there the problem will be any Good games they have won't be PS4 Exclusive
I didn't buy a ps3 for this reason
I can't believe they're only using 32bit Processor even if at 8 cores
why they hell did they not go for 64bit Architecture

least they thought more about RAM this time LOL


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> least they thought more about RAM this time LOL


 
ps4>a faster ps3 with moar ram


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Feb 21, 2013)

-


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## Fun_Zephyr (Feb 21, 2013)

As for price... Let's hope this is truly is a place holders price for Australian buyers... https://www.ebgames.com.au/featured...ium=banner&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=home - AU $899... Glad I am not in the market for one....

Though they were not too far off for the WiiU "place holders" price if I remember correctly....


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

The price just keeps getting bigger
Ugh, *cries*


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Confirmed to have BluRay 6X (8X for DVD)
> 
> That's one mystery less, innit? Also contains some basic AMD "Jaguar" chip specs.


Same as WiiU then, looks like they're very similarly structured systems with the GPGPU, CPU/GPU on the same chip and all, let's see how much more beef the PS4 will have, this presentation had games running on PC so we'll have to wait for a more accurate representation of the system's capabilities. I believe Watch Dogs will be the first game that show off the differences between the next gen systems, I'm expecting it to be like with the Xbox and the PS2.

Depending on the exclusives I might go PS4 coupled with Nintendo instead of PC/Nin. Yeah, I'm not expecting much 3rd party support for WiiU even if we don't know how that will be like.
I always preferred console gaming, it's just that PC is more stable, this time I'm not expecting a jump in graphics for the next 5 years or so, the PS4 versions should be satisfiable for whatever gets released the coming years.


----------



## Deleted member 473940 (Feb 21, 2013)

Wow, the specs!!!
Now let's see what MS came up with .

I am no fanboy of any shit, but the WiiU has been pissing me off. Thought they would fix the load times by now, but it's still so horrible -.- every loading screen... let's not even get there.

Although.. hopefully I won't have to sell an arm and a leg to afford this mofo lol.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

Fun_Zephyr said:


> Let's hope this is truly is a place holders price for Australian buyers... https://www.ebgames.com.au/featured...ium=banner&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=home - AU $899...


LMAO I knew it was gonna be overpriced here we go again $ony!


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Hadrian said:


> Huh, so my 5 year old PC already blows this out of the water.


Your 5-year old PC is hexacore and has GDDR5 memory? Colour me impressed.

As for the price point, it's surely a placeholder.


----------



## emigre (Feb 21, 2013)

This thread has proved GBAtemp has too many retards.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

emigre said:


> This thread has proved GBAtemp has too many retards.


I see two types of crying so-far:

Graphics don't matter, Wii U is still a NextGen _(and of course nobody knows why it was brought up in an unrelated thread)_ and this is _"nothing new"_, plus it will cost a fortune _(although it probably won't)_.
The specs are super-underpowered, I expected twin-i7, Quad-SLI, 32GB GDDR5 shared RAM and a blowjob dispenser, my PC can do all of this ten thousand times better. Plus, why not 64-bit? _(no, it can't - it has to bother with all the usual Windows bullcrap, bloated libraries etc. and never really utilizes the hardware to its full potential. A console will always use its resources more efficiently because it's made for a specific purpose unlike a PC which is multi-purpose by definition. To match the computing performance of this thing, you'd need an actual High-End PC so that you could afford some resource-wasting and that kind of a rig would cost much more than the PS4 will at this point, and it will remain so for the next year or two. As for x86, hardly any games are designed with utilizing 64-bit architectures - most are still 32-bit. That, and do note the 8GB's of memory. Unless it's some magical setup with custom memory pointers, the CPU will be x86__*-64*__ - technically x86 encompasses 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit) _


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 21, 2013)

Sony haters vs Nintendo haters again.

Fuck it, if you like buy it, if you don't like or cant pay for it, just don't buy it. It is so simple.

Sony did everything right until this point, It is a good hardware, with cloud support, what else did you expected?

It has no PS3 direct support, and I see this as a cost reduction measure (or money raise measure).
I don't like the controller, the PS2/PS3 scheme was already too complex, and they put some more stuff on it. AS Vita owner I say that I don't like the Vita's touchpad, it is a big and useless piece of plastic. Few games need it. If I were Sony, I would go with a controller with same number of axes and less buttons, but it is just my opinion.



Foxi4 said:


> I expected [...] a blowjob dispenser


 
You are a genius! Hurry, put a patent on it


----------



## heartgold (Feb 21, 2013)

Jaguar cores are not the most powerful CPU's around. But due to low power consumption I see why they used them. It's more lower end. Still blows Wii U away due to it's based on even older tech years ago.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> and a blowjob dispenser,


if it had that....


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

heartgold said:


> Jaguar cores are not the most powerful CPU's around. But due to low power consumption I see why they used them. It's more lower end. Still blows Wii U away due to it's based on even older tech years ago.


Let's face it - in gaming, the CPU does _fu*k all_ these days - most of the _"intense"_ calculations revolving around physics and such are performed by the GPU. I wouldn't particularily worry about the CPU being _"low on power consumption and thus surely crap" _either as we already know it's been customized - there are no standard 8-Core AMD Jaguars.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Feb 21, 2013)

-


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

lokomelo said:


> Sony haters vs Nintendo haters again.
> 
> Fuck it, if you like buy it, if you dont like or cant pay for it, just dont buy it. It is so simple.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you in pretty much everything except the last part. The original PS3 controller that was present in the reveal in the previous PS meeting was completely different to the final model. As for the touch pad, I'd imagine it's a touch pad vs physical controller since it gives a larger possibility for different functions. The start and select are kinda useless for most games except for pausing the game (or inventory like features). With a touch pad, you could map different keys on different parts, but instead of just 2 functions, you'll have 6 for example. The controller does have an Options and Share button as well (share being the last thing I'd want to do.. Telling people on facebook that I just played 12 hours of a game in a row is just.. wrong ).

The PSVita actually gives pretty good PSX support due to the touch pad. Sure it's not the most practical solution, but compared to dumping 2 shoulder buttons (R2/L2) and 2 other buttons (R3/L3 from the analogs) would make the device quite a bit larger than the current design. :I




Bladexdsl said:


> LMAO I knew it was gonna be overpriced here we go again $ony!


Way to go in seeing the "placeholder price". I've seen pre orders for a basic Nexus 7 model being at 999€ and then being lowered once the company got the real price.


----------



## Lucifer666 (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm trying so hard not to say they are unoriginal twats, but they're not making it easy.
Unoriginal twats.

I was absent-mindedly scrolling through this thread thinking the UI pics were of the Xbox dashboard. Jesus fucking Christ, the menu is an OBVIOUS copy from A-Z, even the fonts and all.

And the stream to Vita thing seems like a Wii U-esque approach.

The touch pad is interesting. I wonder how it'll prove to be useful in more 'hardcore' games without a display to split different regions of the screen into different functions.

The share button is ridiculous. I mean, a single button has the potential to improve so many gamers' performance, and the thing they choose to spend it on is... for some social network shit? (Wii U approach again)


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Way to go in seeing the "placeholder price". I've seen pre orders for a basic Nexus 7 model being at 999€ and then being lowered once the company got the real price.


 
trust me it will be that price that was the placeholder for the ps3 before it came out and it was right on the $$$. your also forgetting with our godly dollar were all rich here and so they can make the price higher 



Lucifer666 said:


> I'm trying so hard not to say they are unoriginal twats, but they're not making it easy.
> Unoriginal twats.
> I was absent-mindedly scrolling through this thread thinking the UI pics were of the Xbox dashboard. Jesus fucking Christ, the menu is an OBVIOUS copy from A-Z, even the fonts and all.
> And the stream to Vita thing seems like a Wii U-esque approach.
> ...


yep that's $ony


----------



## Satangel (Feb 21, 2013)

Didn't expect it so soon, cool stuff. Really cool stuff.


----------



## Flame (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm going to buy one, if it's ever the right time.


but I do hope the price isn't going to be ridiculous. Why? better sales means more games and that means more range of games.


who am i kidding..... im going to BUY FIFA!


----------



## FAST6191 (Feb 21, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Holy shit, 106 comments in 2 hours? How am I supposed to browse through this back catalog of exultation and tears?



Now I can certainly appreciate the plight of the gentleman troll but it is the neighbourhood grammar fairy that I feel more for.


Also re: thread as trainwreck in the making/happening I do not see it.

Re: "didn't show the console".... http://labs.autodesk.com/technologies/fusion (free for a month or so at least), http://www.sketchup.com/ , http://brlcad.org/ , http://www.blender.org/ - knock yourselves out. Short version- is it really that relevant what the console itself looks like?


----------



## Flame (Feb 21, 2013)

this thread is 75% people bitching about other people bitching.


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

Look at sleeping dogs, damn
http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/Games


----------



## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> Look at sleeping dogs, damn
> http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/Games


 
You mean Watch Dogs, don't you?


----------



## McHaggis (Feb 21, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Now I can certainly appreciate the plight of the gentleman troll but it is the neighbourhood grammar fairy that I feel more for.
> 
> 
> Also re: thread as trainwreck in the making/happening I do not see it.
> ...


Aesthetics is important to some people.  Sure, it's not relevant to the experience, but if Sony stuck with the dev kit box for the end product, almost nobody would buy one.  Of course, I doubt there's anything to worry about in that department, Sony's product designs are usually on par with competing technology in terms of aesthetics.  Yes, the original PS3 was a bit of a beast but it wasn't hideous.  I think what people might be more concerned about is the number of USB ports and other connectivity.

As for the people crying about 4K resolution, I have one question... WHY!? 4K resolution is currently only available in 84-inch consumer displays, that are priced in the range of $20k-$30k.  Eventually, the technology will creep into smaller displays and the price will come down but it's almost pointless and virtually nobody will have one during the PS4's life cycle.  The distance most people sit from the TV means that you'll barely notice the difference.  Passive 3D and very large screens stand to gain the most from 4K resolution.  So, you're basically asking that developers sacrifice other graphical aspects so that they can increase the rendering resolution.  I'd much rather see something like integrated WHDI (Amimon recently began licensing out the technology), so that I could have a receiver downstairs and upstairs and just carry the Dual Shock 4 up to continue playing in my bedroom.


----------



## porkiewpyne (Feb 21, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> trust me it will be that price that was the placeholder for the ps3 before it came out and it was right on the $$$. your also forgetting with our godly dollar were all rich here and so they can make the price higher


That's Aus for you. The land where you pay a hell of a lot more simply because...... because.... er... because......Yea dammit why the hell are we paying so much more? O__o

Okay fine, so we don't pay as much as say, Brazil but w/e.


----------



## Rizsparky (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> Look at sleeping dogs, damn
> http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/Games


Watch_dogs*
And yeah it looked pretty good, although it was PC footage... Killzone 4 looked pretty good too


----------



## FAST6191 (Feb 21, 2013)

McHaggis said:


> As for the people crying about 4K resolution, I have one question... WHY!? 4K resolution is currently only available in 84-inch consumer displays, that are priced in the range of $20k-$30k.  Eventually, the technology will creep into smaller displays and the price will come down but it's almost pointless and virtually nobody will have one during the PS4's life cycle.  The distance most people sit from the TV means that you'll barely notice the difference.  Passive 3D and very large screens stand to gain the most from 4K resolution.  So, you're basically asking that developers sacrifice other graphical aspects so that they can increase the rendering resolution.  I'd much rather see something like integrated WHDI (Amimon recently began licensing out the technology), so that I could have a receiver downstairs and upstairs and just carry the Dual Shock 4 up to continue playing in my bedroom.



There are some 4K projectors as well though they are even pricier. I am kind of hoping they go the 360 VGA route and allow some different resolutions to happen, including some above 1080p; 4K may be a stretch but we are finally getting back to increasing resolutions of screens after the embarrassment of the last few years.

Speaking of outputs though- dual screens. You know you want to Sony.


----------



## raystriker (Feb 21, 2013)

Man, Sony never ceases to surprise me!!


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

First off, this looks significant better than the PS3 in terms of graphics. I know the Square Enix demo is old but we now know that THAT'S the in-game graphics we'll have. Or the latest Capcom game looked AMAZING. These are some of the best looking games I've seen.

Second off, the whole "graphics don't matter". David Cage had a whole section of the showing saying exactly why graphics matter. That with graphics at the power they're at on the PS4, developers have no constraints and their visions can be fully realized or that they're so powerful that you can now make characters where the slightest subtleties from their facial expressions can be noticed. Like LA Noire but not with that uncanny valley feeling.

Third off, who the fuck cares. Even if you don't care about graphics, the games looked good and there was a wealth of features, a lot of which are really damn new.

It's just so ironic that the PS4 has made Foxi, soulx, and I actually kinda like each other while everyone else is having a hissyfit. The "so-called" Nintendo diehards on this forum aren't even this stupid.


----------



## McHaggis (Feb 21, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> There are some 4K projectors as well though they are even pricier. I am kind of hoping they go the 360 VGA route and allow some different resolutions to happen, including some above 1080p; 4K may be a stretch but we are finally getting back to increasing resolutions of screens after the embarrassment of the last few years.
> 
> Speaking of outputs though- dual screens. You know you want to Sony.


You never know. The PS2 was capable of HD resolutions via Component, so who's to say they haven't thought ahead with higher resolutions for the PS4? I just think that the GPU power required for 4K resolution rendering could be put to better use on improving more noticeable features.

And about the dual screens, I deleted a line from my last post just before I clicked submit, regarding local multi-player on two TVs with one console. WHDI could do that ;-).



Guild McCommunist said:


> It's just so ironic that the PS4 has made Foxi, soulx, and I actually kinda like each other while everyone else is having a hissyfit. The "so-called" Nintendo diehards on this forum aren't even this stupid.


Man, you really need to lighten up.  The only person I see having a hissyfit is you, if that's even possible while you have your tongue up someone else's arse and finger up another.  You really just need to stop getting so frustrated by everything you read here, or perhaps take a break for a while.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

FireGrey said:


> This might be good once it gets games.
> The PS3 though doesn't have an amazing library and I can imagine this having a smaller library due to sony going downhill in terms of games.


 
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

It has a pretty amazing library.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It's just so ironic that the PS4 has made Foxi, soulx, and I actually kinda like each other while everyone else is having a hissyfit. The "so-called" Nintendo diehards on this forum aren't even this stupid.


Indeed. Soulx completely redeemed himself in my eyes - he did a terrific job preparing the article, he was objective during our conversation and it was actually nice to exchange points of view without any unnecessary animosity for once. I just hope that my cliffnotes helped him a little bit when preparing the thread, but to be honest, he encompassed the subject professionally by himself. 

As for the 4K resolution tears, don't forget that the PS4 has an entire generation ahead of itself, and this one is likely to be even longer than the reign of the 360/PS3/Wii - within 3-4 years time 4K will become more popular than it is now and the PS4 will be ready - this is a _good_ thing.


----------



## PizzaPino (Feb 21, 2013)

disappointing somehow. ps3 is enough for me for now.


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It's just so ironic that the PS4 has made Foxi, soulx, and I actually kinda like each other while everyone else is having a hissyfit. The "so-called" Nintendo diehards on this forum aren't even this stupid.


Aside from the obvious trolls and noob members we dgaf about I'm not seeing it, there's more complaints about troll posts than actual troll posts, regular members are either meh we need to see more or wowed by it. Concerning hardware speculation there has only been guesses and praising but not straight out trashtalk. The so called Nintendo diehards seem to have liked what they've seen so far too. Really where are the tears I keep hearing about? You act as if Valwin was still around.


----------



## FireGrey (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
> 
> It has a pretty amazing library.


Ratchet and Clank (Which has lost it's touch a bit) and inFamous (There are only 2 inFamous + that DLC).
Everything else either I don't like or is on everything else, better on everything else due to the fact that the games are made for 360, which i highly assume will happen this generation.
I think that I'm going to be sticking with the Wii U, for the awesome exclusives + PC for the awesome exclusives + the mainstream games.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> *I can't believe they're only using 32bit Processor even if at 8 cores*
> *why they hell did they not go for 64bit Architecture*


I just re-checked this since x86 actually encompasses 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit processors. The processor in the PS4 is confirmed to be 64-bit by Sony via a press release.



			
				Engadget said:
			
		

> A press release reveals that the PS4's PC-like configuration will include an 8-core 64-bit x86 "Jaguar" CPU built by AMD, with a Radeon GPU comprised of 18 "compute units" capable of cranking out 1.84 TFLOPS to process graphics and more.
> 
> Source


 
*Fun Fact* - I read that article earlier and somehow missed this tidbit. Then again, I didn't exactly sleep much last night.



FireGrey said:


> Ratchet and Clank (Which has lost it's touch a bit) and inFamous (There are only 2 inFamous + that DLC).
> Everything else either I don't like or is on everything else, better on everything else due to the fact that the games are made for 360 (...)


*> Library not good because I don't like it.*

_Good, good._

As for _"programming mainly for the 360"_, not only that's a thing of the past, it actually doesn't apply to the PS4 in any way since the 360 is going to be repressed by the _"NextBox"_. If the rumours are anything to go by, the _"NextBox"_ will have a very similar structure so porting back and forth will not be that much of an issue.


----------



## zanfire (Feb 21, 2013)

PizzaPino said:


> disappointing somehow. ps3 is enough for me for now.


 
agreed, not much there that impressed me, in fact plenty of it was stuff we knew about or just another number of a franchise the we all expected. Aside from "deep down" nothing seemed like it was much of a leap. I'm surprised they are still trying to push the "move"...why they cant let it die is beyond me.

The system itself seems like a pretty powerful piece of tech, but its nothing innovative or really fresh that makes me want to buy it right away. Unless you're really into their "let's push the hell out of social media" thing, this was a very meh~ showing.


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> You mean Watch Dogs, don't you?





Rizsparky said:


> Watch_dogs*
> And yeah it looked pretty good, although it was PC footage... Killzone 4 looked pretty good too


 
Lol yeah, got mixed up
*Watch Dogs


----------



## Its_just_Lou (Feb 21, 2013)

Wait, so the PS4 is the successor to the PS3?? ...They aren't going to skip directly to PS9?!? Astounding, truly, and VERY unexpected!

Next, you'll be telling me that Nintendo will soon be announcing new games in their Mario/Zelda/Poke franchises! Nostradamus-like!


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Indeed. Soulx completely redeemed himself in my eyes - he did a terrific job preparing the article, he was objective during our conversation and it was actually nice to exchange points of view without any unnecessary animosity for once. I just hope that my cliffnotes helped him a little bit when preparing the thread, but to be honest, he encompassed the subject professionally by himself.


 
I never doubted soulx, despite the fact that he likes to anger Vita lovers, he is usually objective in his arguments (use facts in his arguments rather than opinions) and I rarely find him being rude with anyone. Also his threads are usually well detailed and organized, so when I saw the thread was made by him, I was sure it would contain a lot of information.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

I just realized that nobody seems to be talking about the new PlayStation Eye here - I can understand why as it was overlooked on the presentation itself, however the press release does have its specs as well as functionality:


Twin [email protected] cameras _([email protected], [email protected]) _capable of depth and body motion detection
Four microphones array with the capacity of searching for the sound source
85-degrees Field of View
Enhanced PSMove support _(d'uh)_
Facial recognition, including Face Login
Voice control, much like with the Kinect
Player recognition _(hence the lights on each Dual Shock 4)_
More about the controller as well as the Eye here:

 Source


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I just realized that nobody seems to be talking about the new PlayStation Eye here - I can understand why as it was overlooked on the presentation itself, however the press release does have its specs as well as functionality:
> 
> 
> Twin [email protected] cameras _([email protected], [email protected]) _capable of depth and body motion detection
> ...


 
Kinect copycats


----------



## porkiewpyne (Feb 21, 2013)

Speaking of PS9, anyone remember seeing this trailer many years back?


----------



## porkiewpyne (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> Kinect copycats


Except the PS Eye concept came earlier iirc


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> Kinect copycats


Well, the Kinect sold better than the PSMove, so naturally that's the direction they want to go now. Plus, EyeToy came first - this is its evolution.


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I just realized that nobody seems to be talking about the new PlayStation Eye here - I can understand why as it was overlooked on the presentation itself, however the press release does have its specs as well as functionality:
> 
> 
> Twin [email protected] cameras _([email protected], [email protected]) _capable of depth and body motion detection
> ...


Also the original PSMove controllers work on the new setup! Source


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Also the original PSMove controllers work on the new setup!


Well d'uh, the core part of PSMove is just a coloured light.


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

porkiewpyne said:


> Except the PS Eye concept came earlier iirc





Foxi4 said:


> Well, the Kinect sold better than the PSMove, so naturally that's the direction they want to go now. Plus, EyeToy came first - this is its evolution.


 
Still doesn't change the fact they copy kinect
Look at the design, they tried to make it slightly different though
But I'm not against PS4! Just sayin 
720, let's see...


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Well d'uh, the core part of PSMove is just a coloured light.


True, but considering the integration with the new controller, it could just as well not work. On another note, I'd rather wave a wand instead of a controller if the movement is plain Move :3


----------



## emigre (Feb 21, 2013)

Is it just me whose disappointed by Sony's copying of handheld-console connectivity from NEC's Turbographix-Turoboexpress?

Why do Sony need to steal ideas from over twenty years ago?


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> Look at the design, they tried to make it slightly different though


Pretty sure that a _"bar"_ like this is the only way of putting two cameras _in a horizontal line._ 







This shape is chosen for the sake of the Field of View and the dual cameras.


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Pretty sure that a _"bar"_ like this is the only way of putting two cameras _in a horizontal line._
> 
> This shape is chosen for the sake of the Field of View and the dual cameras.


 
Lolol, never thought of that... I look like an idiot 
Nintendo's sensor bar is the best! Lol no
But maybe they wanted to copy some of the kinect's features?


----------



## McHaggis (Feb 21, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Pretty sure that a _"bar"_ like this is the only way of putting two cameras _in a horizontal line._
> 
> This shape is chosen for the sake of the Field of View and the dual cameras.


Not taking sides or anything but https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=3D+webcam&hl=en&tbm=shop.  They could have taken two original eye toys and glued them together to have two cameras '_in a horizontal line'_ with the same field of view as a long, thin, bar.  But seriously, who cares?  In business, it's very common jump on bandwagons that other companies have success with.  I actually wish it would happen more often in some cases.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Feb 21, 2013)

I prefer motion controllers like Wiimote or Move over ones like Kinect.

In my experience with Kinect, you need to be in a specific spot. There is a maximum of 2 players. If someone passes in front or behind of you, you have to wave like an idiot until the kinect recognizes you again. There is a noticeable delay between when you move and when the action is recognized by the sensor. It's not as accurate as it is claimed.

I wonder if this PS Eye will show improvements over kinect, but I'm sure not all of those problems can be solved

At least the Wiimote (and the Move I supose) are much more reliable.


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> But maybe they wanted to copy some of the kinect's features?


Or perhaps make it possible to record 3D video while gaming! I can imagine all the "Wii have a problem"-type sites after the events are (automatically if the user wishes so?) recorded and can be uploaded to services like Youtube. The below video is from the Wii Fit, but imagine the thing without the necessary pad, just a person with the mote


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I prefer motion controllers like Wiimote or Move over ones like Kinect.


 
Yeah, cause it's like you're imagining you're holding a sword in kinect but in ps move or wii, you atleast hold something.
Kinect sux in my opionion


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

lokomelo said:


> Sony haters vs Nintendo haters again.
> 
> It has no PS3 direct support, and I see this as a cost reduction measure (or money raise measure).
> I don't like the controller, the PS2/PS3 scheme was already too complex, and they put some more stuff on it. AS Vita owner I say that I don't like the Vita's touchpad, it is a big and useless piece of plastic. Few games need it. If I were Sony, I would go with a controller with same number of axes and less buttons, but it is just my opinion.


Too complex? Nonsense! 

(less buttons) And limit how too play a game? Why would you do that?


Eerpow said:


> Yeah, I'm not expecting much 3rd party support for WiiU even if we don't know how that will be like.


I beg to differ.



Peps said:


> Firstly, the controller just feels like a bunch of things were just forcefully shoved in, and it just doesn't know what it wants to be in the least. But the touchpad? That just looks aesthetically horrible, looks uncomfortable (though I could be wrong), and it looks very unfriendly for the user. Sure the OUYA took a similar approach for the touchpad, but it's to ensure backwards compatibility, and isn't meant to be there for primary controls.
> 
> 
> 
> Also seriously, "Playstation 4"? Wasted opportunity to try a new name.


I kind of worry about that to since they didn't show any gameplay around the touchpad,but we will see.

Would you prefer "PlayStation U"?


Hadrian said:


> Huh, so my 5 year old PC already blows this out of the water. Interesting, I always thought the "next gen" wouldn't be that much of an improvement. Also Blast Processor>Supercharged


Well, consoles didn't have worry about as much unnecessary things for gaming like the PC.

How much did your PC cost?


shoyrumaster11 said:


> At least now, Microsoft won't make the mistake of coming first! (Dreamcast, Xbox 360, Wii U) While I sure do hope to buy a PS4 and whatever good games that there could be for it (Elder Scrolls Online, Portal 3, etc...) I also hope the Xbox 720 can beat the PS4 in processing speeds, hard disk capacity, etc... And a HUGE thumbs up to Nintendo for their efforts to make the Wii U a great console!


Xbox 360 was leading in second for a while, in sells of course. I don't think Dreamcast going first
was it's only issue. Xbox 720 price would be even higher than $400-500.

They still need to make it better software wise.


Pong20302000 said:


> least they thought more about RAM this time LOL


How much ram is going to the os vs game?


Foxi4 said:


> Pretty sure that a _"bar"_ like this is the only way of putting two cameras _in a horizontal line._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's looking down on me.



Foxi4 said:


> Facial recognition, including Face Login


Only the ones that are registered can play on this console.

Some guys hopes/expectations are way too high. Also this isn't a wii vs twin gen again.
Hopefully, it's more like gen 6, with more dev support of course.


----------



## McHaggis (Feb 21, 2013)

I prefer the classic style of gaming altogether.  Motion controls limit how comfortable you can be when you're gaming, like having to sit up to play Skyward Sword because you need to make sure the rotation of the Wii remote is perfect for unlocking the boss doors or whatever.  Or having to stand up to play golf games.  However, what I love about the Wii remote/Nunchuk is not having your hands virtually handcuffed by the controller.  You can relax, holding the Nunchuk in the left hand and the Wii remote in the right and just let your arms fall wherever you want.  I wish somebody would make a dual analog controller like that.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Aside from the obvious trolls and noob members we dgaf about I'm not seeing it, there's more complaints about troll posts than actual troll posts, regular members are either meh we need to see more or wowed by it. Concerning hardware speculation there has only been guesses and praising but not straight out trashtalk. The so called Nintendo diehards seem to have liked what they've seen so far too. Really where are the tears I keep hearing about? You act as if Valwin was still around.


 
Unfortunately most of GBAtemp is "trolls" and "noob members".

Also Valwin _was_ back a few pages ago on an alt account.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't know if it's been posted here yet, so sorry if this is redundant...

Sony to Eurogamer: PS4 Will NOT Block Used Games

And because the news just keeps coming...

The Witcher 3 Confirmed for 2014 PS4 Release

Don't thank me, I'm just paying it PS4-ward.


----------



## chartube12 (Feb 21, 2013)

It was confirmed by game informer interview the witcher 3 would launch as a next gen title, almost 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Gahars said:


> The Witcher 3 Confirmed for 2014 PS4 Release


Damn you open world RPGS! How will I find time to play all these huge RPGs.. Still waiting to play quite a few RPGs due to this :<


----------



## spotanjo3 (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you noticed Watch Dog Wii U ? Not much different from PS4 version. All I can tell is Wii's lighting is a little bit better than PS4 version. Not bad!


----------



## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

If you took my posts seriously,DAFUQ!!!They didn't show anything that current gen consoles do.And for people who think WiiU is current gen,they obviously don't know how we separate generations.You are probably going to get it anyways,I mean,like you have a job,buy all the consoles.


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

bearmon2010 said:


> Did you noticed Watch Dog Wii U ? Not much different from PS4 version. All I can tell is Wii's lighting is a little bit better than PS4 version. Not bad!


WTF you on about? We've only seen the PC build of the game, there are no PS4/WiiU versions yet.


----------



## Issac (Feb 21, 2013)

Holy shit... Just saw the Swedish pre-order price... Fortunately it's just preliminary, but it feels like it won't be far off: $1090!!!! :o


----------



## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

I see people complaining about graphics but honestly,
what did you guys expect?

The first X360 titles weren't much better than Xbox ones,
but with time developers become more used to its hardware and made huge graphical improvements on the same hardware.

I expect PS4 life cycle to be even bigger than PS3 and X360,
and I also expect this graphical difference from early to late PS4 titles to be even bigger compared to PS3 and X360 ones.


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> I see people complaining about graphics but honestly,
> what did you guys expect?
> 
> The first X360 titles weren't much better than Xbox ones,
> ...


 
720 yo


----------



## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> 720 yo


What?


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> What?


 
It's a forum.


----------



## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> It's a forum.


720 yo is a forum?
It's still unclear for me what you're saying


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> 720 yo is a forum?
> It's still unclear for me what you're saying


 
XBox720
I think you heard me now in the forum.
Sorry if I was quiet lol


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

Issac said:


> Holy shit... Just saw the Swedish pre-order price... Fortunately it's just preliminary, but it feels like it won't be far off: $1090!!!! :o


Finnish pre-order (place holder) is @999€ = ~$1300+. Gotta love place holder prices when companies are keeping it profitable regardless of the final price


----------



## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

I see people complaining about PS4 graphics, and it's similarity to PS3 graphics, so I decided to do this.
Let's compare early X360 titles with late ones:

Fifa 06:











Fifa 13:












Halo 3:






Halo 4:












Gears of War:










Gears of War 3:












Conclusion: If there was such a big gap, within the same hardware, we can expect a lot from PS4.
Developers will need some time to get used to new hardware and learn how optimize and use the resources given to it's full potential.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Still hope for 4k?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...w-fall-point-to-ps4-running-at-4k-resolution/


----------



## spotanjo3 (Feb 21, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> WTF you on about? We've only seen the PC build of the game, there are no PS4/WiiU versions yet.


 
http://www.officialnintendomagazine...h-the-trailer-for-one-of-2013s-biggest-games/


----------



## Ryupower (Feb 21, 2013)

PSN purchases will not carry over to PlayStation 4

Sony: PSN purchases don't carry over to PS4

so it look like you need to keep your ps3 to play your ps3 games


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Still hope for 4k?
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...w-fall-point-to-ps4-running-at-4k-resolution/


Isn't it conformed that killzone was not running on actual PS4 hardware to begin with?
4k simply isn't going to happen, you guys don't realize this but 4k is more than 4x1080p! What kind of difference does that make on a screen unless you're sitting 2 feet from the damn thing? Developers will always opt for better textures and graphical effects rather than a higher image resolution. 4k is ridiculous and the PS4 couldn't handle it even if it was current gen high end PC specs. Jeeez how blind are people not to see that 4k wouldn't make any sense on a standard sized TV screen?


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Isn't it conformed that killzone was not running on actual PS4 hardware to begin with?
> 4k simply isn't going to happen, you guys don't realize this but 4k is more than 4x1080p! What kind of difference does that make on a screen unless you're sitting 2 feet from the damn thing? Developers will always opt for better textures and graphical effects rather than a higher image resolution. 4k is ridiculous and the PS4 couldn't handle it even if it was current gen high end PC specs. Jeeez how blind are people not to see that 4k wouldn't make any sense on a standard sized TV screen?


Was that directed to me as well? If so, I already said I didn't expect it to. I should have said some people are still hoping for it.

Yes, it would be better to do that then make it 4k.


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Was that directed to me as well? If so, I already said I didn't expect it to. I should have said some people are still hoping for it.


No I didn't think you expected that, don't worry kv, it's just that the people wanting it doesn't realize what it is and how exponentially much more processing it takes.



bearmon2010 said:


> http://www.officialnintendomagazine...h-the-trailer-for-one-of-2013s-biggest-games/


That article is wrong there is no PS4 version, all the W_D footage shown up to now is PC footage.
The game is coming to both of those systems, but we can't compare graphics between game footage which doesn't yet exist.


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## Ryupower (Feb 21, 2013)

the ps3 or ps4  version of watch dogs was shown at the PS4 event


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## weavile001 (Feb 21, 2013)

Ryupower said:


> PSN purchases will not carry over to PlayStation 4
> 
> Sony: PSN purchases don't carry over to PS4
> 
> so it look like you need to keep your ps3 to play your ps3 games


no......
this means that I'm not going to buy the ps4 early......


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## YayMii (Feb 21, 2013)

Wait, someone complained about this not being 64-bit? Really?
The PS4's specs clearly state x86-64 (FYI: x64, x86-64, and AMD64 is pretty much the same thing).


Ryupower said:


> the ps3 or ps4 version of watch dogs was shown at the PS4 event


That was the PS4 version.


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## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

Ryupower said:


> the ps3 or ps4 version of watch dogs was show at the PS4 event





YayMii said:


> That was the PS4 version.


No, the footage shown was confirmed to be running on PC, we don't know how the game runs on anything other than PC. Most if not all the footage at the event was PC, not PS4, they aren't that far into development. We most likely don't have any footage at all of what the Ps4 actually can output.

Get your shit together people.


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## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

weavile001 said:


> no......
> this means that I'm not going to buy the ps4 early......


 
Unless you want to pay R$8000.
Do you remember PS3 release in Brazil?

It's better to wait one year after it's released.
Buying later you will decrease the chance of getting a defected piece of hardware and will have more games to choose.


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## Yepi69 (Feb 21, 2013)

I still prefer Nintendo.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2013)

PS3 barely had BC. I guess it's just time to move on, even if it quite annoying. It makes it cheaper.
We have the computer to play most of the past stuff. I'm sure they try to have BC with the new set up.
Prepare for collections remakes from the ps3.


PS5 better have it tho.


----------



## Qtis (Feb 21, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> PS3 barely had BC. I guess it's just time to move on, even if it quite annoying.


 
Funny thing is that pretty much the PS2 was the first console to have a working BC system. All other consoles use different kinds of storage. After the PS2, the current gen consoles have (limited) BC and some have had it ripped out completely (PS3, Wii). The 360 could emulate better as proven by modders, but MS isn't that interested.

Oh well, now that I have all the current gen consoles (got myself a smexy Halo 4 360!), I can stop worrying about BC. If and when my consoles start having a fit, I'll hopefully be able to play the games on a PC (and if the previous gens are a way of looking at it, I'm good to go for the next 20-30 years since all my consoles still work )


----------



## emigre (Feb 21, 2013)

Yepi69 said:


> I still prefer Nintendo.


 
Insightful perspective.


----------



## Flame (Feb 21, 2013)




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## Veho (Feb 21, 2013)

Flame said:


> *exorbitant prices*


Preorder placeholders until the actual price is established.


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Someone's going to take these prices seriously in 3, 2, 1...


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## Flame (Feb 21, 2013)

is they an other OS on the PS4?


----------



## weavile001 (Feb 21, 2013)

Flame said:


>


not funny :/


----------



## Veho (Feb 21, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Someone's going to take these prices seriously in 3, 2, 1...


LOL WUT $899 WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING, I WANT WHAT THEY'RE HAVING HOLY SHIT ARE THEY INSANE 

AND PEOPLE LAUGHED AT "599 AMERICAN DOLLARS", HOLY SHIT NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY IT AT THIS PRICE 

SO LONG SONY, R.I.P. 

LOL EPIC FAIL. 



Too much?


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Veho said:


> Too much?


 
Knowing some people on this site... too subtle.


----------



## emigre (Feb 21, 2013)

Veho said:


> LOL WUT $899 WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING, I WANT WHAT THEY'RE HAVING HOLY SHIT ARE THEY INSANE
> 
> AND PEOPLE LAUGHED AT "599 AMERICAN DOLLARS", HOLY SHIT NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY IT AT THIS PRICE
> 
> ...


 
HI BLADEXDSL!


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## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Isn't it conformed that killzone was not running on actual PS4 hardware to begin with?
> 4k simply isn't going to happen, you guys don't realize this but 4k is more than 4x1080p! What kind of difference does that make on a screen unless you're sitting 2 feet from the damn thing? Developers will always opt for better textures and graphical effects rather than a higher image resolution. 4k is ridiculous and the PS4 couldn't handle it even if it was current gen high end PC specs. Jeeez how blind are people not to see that 4k wouldn't make any sense on a standard sized TV screen?


 
With Blu-Ray been used on next-gen consoles, textures can become better than ever.
If it's true that PS3 will use 100GB Blu-Ray, PS4 would probably be able to use 4K nicely.

I don't see much need for 4K now, the same way I still don't see much need for 3D,
yet Sony started using 3D on Playstation 3.

Who knows what Sony is up to?


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## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2013)

wtf $900 are they on cocaine, weed and meth? they are dumbasses, the ps3 was half that at launch


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## Eerpow (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> With Blu-Ray been used on next-gen consoles, textures can become better than ever.


Textures doesn't have anything to do with 4k, it's just the resolution the machine renders a scene at, storage and textures doesn't have anything to with it. If it was possible we could display Wii games in 4k with dolphin.
There's a huge gap in power required between rendering at 1080p and doing 4k, the resolution difference won't be noticeable unless you own a 100 inch TV or something.
People are mistaking 4k as something else.

The red area represents 4k, see that olive green one? That's 1080p, 4k is just resolution (4,096 × 2,304 pixels_)_, a fancy name people keep pissing in their pants about as if it's the next new thing after HD.






See what a ridiculous amount of processing waste it would be when that power could go to better lightning, effects, physics and textures instead?


----------



## Ryupower (Feb 21, 2013)

ps4 can do 4k *video, not 4k games*
PS4 will output video in 4K, but not games


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 21, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> Sony again copies Nintendo.
> 
> Sony is basically a Nintendo
> 
> http://ccnerdfactory.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/brand-reversioning-sony-nintendo-logo-590x327.jpg


I'm sorry, what?


----------



## mightymuffy (Feb 21, 2013)

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/ps4-will-output-video-in-4k-but-not-games/  - Ack, beaten to it! Still, it's good news, so let's leave it on twice ehh...

8GB GDDR5 is the shocker here, that's a massive amount - Nvidia's new Titan range ($1000) only has 6GB... previously only thought to be 4GB, this should give a good 25% extra oomph over the next xbox (on top of the ~50% extra as previously thought)

Consider me unimpressed by the Kinect & Smartglass showing though (oops have I made a mistake there??) - screams a bit copycat to me, hell the new Eye camera even vertically tilts LOL...
Also as it's been confirmed today that PS3 saves and purchases are not transferable this could be a bit of a feather in MS's cap if they add the feature....

Still, these launch thingies are always a little bit underwhelming.... e3 should give us a far better look! And as one who always says he prefers his 360 to his PS3, I'm STILL far more looking forward to the PS4! 
Holiday '13 in the US ehh... please Sony don't shaft us Euro's again.....


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## kingcolex (Feb 21, 2013)

chrisrlink said:


> wtf $900 are the on cocaine, weed and meth? they are dumbasses, the ps3 was half that at launch


No it was 600$ at launch that's 2/3 not 1/2.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2013)

kingcolex said:


> No it was 600$ at launch that's 2/3 not 1/2.


 
oh ok much better


----------



## Elrinth (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm looking forwards to see more Deep Down ingame-footage. If what was shown was indeed the game engine. Then I'm a VERY happy man, a mysterious pile of secrets.
Actually the only game which looked like a cool experience was Deep Down. To me, this was the most beautiful game shown. It's not THAT far behind Dragon's Dogma. But still, it was just SO much more detailed. Holy shit if it was ingame 

But DAMN Killzone did look gorgeous, tho plagued with texture pop-in.

The DriveClub game looked absolutely fantastic aswell, hoping it is ingame footage  but it looked prerendered.

But enough talk, have at you.

*tosses his whine


----------



## ProtoKun7 (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Like it's probably $430 USD. That's the current rumor and it has quite a lot of credit now that *its* source also leaked the PS4 controller.


My money's on $429.99.



TwinRetro said:


> Well, I might as well empty out my bank account now and preorder this bitch. I will be getting this at launch.
> 
> Sorry, Microsoft, I have different needs now, and you don't even come close to fulfilling them.


Sounds like a breakup if ever I heard one.



BortzANATOR said:


> you couldn't map the R3 buttons to the back of the Vita?


You'd still need L2/R2 buttons as well; it could work if the rear pad was split into quadrants or if the touch screen incorporated a set of them too.


Peps said:


> Also seriously, "Playstation 4"? Wasted opportunity to try a new name.


Keeping the current naming system makes perfect sense to me. At least it's consistent. Not like Xbox and Xbox 360. I don't want one day to hear about the new "PlayStation Emotion" where your love fuels your health, or a "MagicStation Wonderment" where you have to BELIEVE you can win.



emigre said:


> Is it just me whose disappointed by Sony's copying of handheld-console connectivity from NEC's Turbographix-Turoboexpress?
> 
> Why do Sony need to steal ideas from over twenty years ago?


"Who's"*


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## Deleted-185407 (Feb 21, 2013)

-


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## Foxi4 (Feb 21, 2013)

If anyone's interested, here's an article I wrote encompassing just about everything we currently know about the PlayStation 4 - I hope you'll enjoy the read!


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Will people not buy a console because of a "boring" name? Plus, they might be trying to avoid some of the brand confusion Nintendo suffered with the DS/3DS and Wii/Wii U - even now I hear stories of people completely incapable of understanding that the Wii U is not just a tablet addon. Numbers may be safe, sure, but at least the general public "get" them.

Anyway, figured I'd share this with you guys:


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## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

Peps said:


> Why do people assume that changing the name of your product means you're going to end up with silly names? While I'm no expert with product names, lack of consistency is never a problem. Creative and aesthetically looking/sounding names are just far more professional to have that incrementing a measly number. It's also nicer to change names because it gives more meaning to the product and what it's trying to achieve. Let's take an example of where name change did not confuse people at all:
> 
> Windows 3.1
> Windows 95/98/2000
> ...


 
I really liked the name Playstation Orbis.
I understand that calling it Playstation 4 is market strategy,
playing safe by giving people a product with a well known brand.

But I guess that soon or later, they will need to change that.
Having a Playstation with 2 digits just doesn't seem right.


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## Deleted-185407 (Feb 21, 2013)

-


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## The Riolu (Feb 21, 2013)

Honestly looking at the unconfirmed release price, I have to say that is reasonable for the system, considering the 8GB of GDDR5 memory o_o


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## Catastrophic (Feb 21, 2013)

I can imagine the PS4s launch being similar to the PS3s, Like how the PS2 was still considered the main PS console despite the PS3 being released. The PS3 took quite some time to gain support and now it's probably the most supported console at the moment.


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## McHaggis (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> I really liked the name Playstation Orbis.
> I understand that calling it Playstation 4 is market strategy,
> playing safe by giving people a product with a well known brand.
> 
> ...


Playstation Orbis sounds like some kind of cheap knock-off chewing gum given away by Sony reps at a gaming convention. :-p


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## joelv6 (Feb 21, 2013)

this looks awesome even though the controller looks funky lol
hopefully this doesn't get hack
reason: because I want Japanese companies to bring more jrpgs to the west


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## VMM (Feb 21, 2013)

McHaggis said:


> Playstation Orbis sounds like some kind of cheap knock-off chewing gum given away by Sony reps at a gaming convention. :-p


 
That's the first time I've heard something like this about Orbis.
But let's be frank, it's something original, fresh, and it's still better than adding a U to your console name.



joelv6 said:


> this looks awesome even though the controller looks funky lol
> hopefully this doesn't get hack
> reason: because I want Japanese companies to bring more jrpgs to the west


 
There is still a lot of time for changes,
remember PS3 boomerang controller?

About JRPGs, I'm having a lot of fun with Ni No Kuni for PS3.
It's the best JRPG I've ever played.


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## joelv6 (Feb 21, 2013)

VMM said:


> That's the first time I've heard something like this about Orbis.
> But let's be frank, it's something original, fresh, and it's still better than adding a U to your console name.
> 
> 
> ...


 
I agree about the name, it's fresh and when you hear name it sounds pretty cool. It's true about time and changes lol

regarding about jrpgs, I haven't opened Ni No Kuni yet. I'm trying to finish  tales of graces f 100% plus trophies. I'm at 90%, so close yet so far haha


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Feb 21, 2013)

joelv6 said:


> I agree about the name, it's fresh and when you hear name it sounds pretty cool. It's true about time and changes lol
> 
> regarding about jrpgs, I haven't opened Ni No Kuni yet. I'm trying to finish  tales of graces f 100% plus trophies. I'm at 90%, so close yet so far haha


 
I started Tales of Graces F a while back, got bored at one point and shut it off. I've been meaning to pick it up, but Ni No Kuni was just too tempting. So now I'm switching between that and L.A Noire.


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

Peps said:


> I would probably argue that more creative names actually make the product more attractive to consumers. Professionalism sells and is something that consumers respect whether they realise it or not. And this brand confusion with Nintendo products is a result of *poor marketing*, not a result of poor name choice, as I said in my post. The naming is perfectly fine. They're aesthetically pleasing, sound more professional, and actually describe what's unique about the product. Not to mention, considering Nintendo's market is larger and geared towards non-gamers, obviously they're going to have problems educating people about games consoles.
> 
> As I said, Microsoft clearly had zero problems with Windows naming schema, mostly because they marketed the software correctly. Heck, I'm sure there would have been plenty of people who tried to play PS2 games on a PS1, or even wondered why their PS3 isn't playing older PS2 or PS1 software by disc. You're going to have idiots who don't pay attention to these things.


 
I don't think an added name is necessarily any more attractive or professional - it varies from product to product, and name to name. There's simplicity in a straight numbering system, sure, but sometimes that's what you want, and consumers can respond to that just as well. Marketing can overcome possible confusion, sure, but marketing doesn't come cheap - a number stuck at the end gets the job done pretty much automatically.

Anyway, here's another, equally-official gif of the conference:


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## emigre (Feb 21, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I don't think an added name is necessarily any more attractive or professional - it varies from product to product, and name to name. There's simplicity in a straight numbering system, sure, but sometimes that's what you want, and consumers can respond to that just as well. Marketing can overcome possible confusion, sure, but marketing doesn't come cheap - a number stuck at the end gets the job done pretty much automatically.
> 
> Anyway, here's another, equally-official gif of the conference:


 
As someone who has worked in retail, I don't think I can ever articulate how I felt at the number of times, I've had clueless parents believing the Wii U to be a controller or the 3DS being like the DS but just in 3D.

Whilst numbering if unexciting and unoriginal, it does making fucking clear there is some sort of progression and that the system with a higher number is new system altogether.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

Here's just some general news roundup:


Current PSN games won't transfer to the PS4: Really a huge bummer, I could see no backwards compatibility but this neuters the chance of transferring your digital PS3 purchases to streamable games. It's a fair complaint if you wanted something to ride.
PS4 WILL NOT block used games: This was never even a rumor with the PS4, it came up with the Nextbox aka Durango. This was NEVER Sony-associated. Pull yer heads out of yer anal cavities. EDIT: You can also say this defeats the retarded rumor made here that it will be download-only.
PS4 comes bundled with headset and DualShock 4: The PS3 didn't come with a headset so woohoo.
PS4 DOES NOT require an internet connection: I don't think this was ever proposed here but it was another Durango rumor. Not applicable to the PS4.
PS4 will cost $429.99, "Elite" model at $529.99: I brought this up multiple times earlier but since GBAtemp is clearly retarded, here's the actual source. I know you may go "lolkotaku", but this same source had all his other details confirmed in the presentation, such as the new Playstation Eye and DualShock 4. So this does have a fair amount of credit to it.
EDIT: All PS4 games playable on the Vita will support remote play: This means games that require like the Move or Eye won't play on the Vita but everything else will be, or that's their wish. They also hint that remote play will work from any internet connection, meaning your PS4 could be miles away on a different connection but it'll still be playable via remote play (unlike how it is current on the PS3-Vita and the Wii U). Of course the experience will be better at home.
Keep on rollin'.


----------



## gokujr1000 (Feb 21, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> how much do you reckon it will be here on launch remember the ps3 was $900


 
Yeah that was nuts. I still remember as a boy walking into EB Games on the PS3 launch being mind blown at how expensive all their deals were and at how much people were still willing to buy one. 

It wasn't until the PS3 Slim came out until I actually got one though.


----------



## Master Mo (Feb 21, 2013)

I`m very late to the party but I was really busy so here I go:

This was exactly what I imagined the PS4 to be.

Only the controller has me worried: The WiiU showed that good Speaker (it was on Wii already a good idea but the speakers are rather bad) and a headphone-jack are blessings on a controller. But I don`t get why they haven`t changed the form factor a bit. I think the DS-controllers are horrible. Even Nintendo admits that the 360 has the best controller by copying its design... That`s why I always play my P360-games on 360! I was expecting more from their new controller... Also they should have left motion-controls out of the normal controller, since they do have a dedicated controller for that. The Gamepad is different in this aspect, because it gives you direct feed-back of your motion through the screen you are holding in your hands and moves with your motion but if you look at the TV I don`t think it makes much sense to use a two-handed controller rather then the very good wand-controller they have.

Also they should have not talked sooooo long about all that technical stuff only a handful of people understand (instead show a video or something to show of the difference between PS3 and PS4 graphically)...

And they seriously should have had a prototype of the console itself. We all know Sony can make some very sexy hardware (PSPgo, PSone or PS3slim - super slim is pretty ugly too but it`s cheap ) but they shouldn`t make their first rendition of the hardware deliberately ugly. I mean look at the PS2 or PS3.... Those are the ugliest consoles ever. But I guess we`ll see it at e3.

All in all a good presention but at least half an hour too long for the amount of information they gave over all!


----------



## Bladexdsl (Feb 21, 2013)

gokujr1000 said:


> Yeah that was nuts. I still remember as a boy walking into EB Games on the PS3 launch being mind blown at how expensive all their deals were and at how much people were still willing to buy one.
> 
> It wasn't until the PS3 Slim came out until I actually got one though.


looks like it will be the same  They say placeholder price but we both know that price won't change


----------



## gokujr1000 (Feb 21, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> looks like it will be the same


 
Yeah I'll probably do the smart thing and just import it like I did with my 3DS, or I'll go to JB Hifi considering they usually sell things cheaper.


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm guessing the price will be 500$, with those specs it blows WiiU away. The controller might be about a good 90$.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

maniax300 said:


> I'm guessing the price will be 500$,with those specs it blows WiiU away.The controller might be about a good 90$.


 
If you actually read my post a few posts up it says $430 is the rumored price. And it's a decently credible source since they've been correct about every other prediction they made with the PS4.


----------



## RedCoreZero (Feb 21, 2013)

I probably skipped a few posts, it happens...


----------



## mightymuffy (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Here's just some general news roundup:
> 
> PS4 WILL NOT block used games: This was never even a rumor with the PS4, it came up with the Nextbox aka Durango. This was NEVER Sony-associated. Pull yer heads out of yer anal cavities. EDIT: You can also say this defeats the retarded rumor made here that it will be download-only.




*cough* http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-03-sony-patents-tech-to-block-use-of-second-hand-games *cough* Might want to change your sarky comment to 'This was NEVER PS4-associated [after all]'


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2013)

mightymuffy said:


> *cough* http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-03-sony-patents-tech-to-block-use-of-second-hand-games *cough* Might want to change your sarky comment to 'This was NEVER PS4-associated [after all]'


 
A miscellaneous patent doesn't equal "PS4 BLOCKS USED GAMES" considering there was nothing that said the PS4 would. It was a random patent.


----------



## ForteGospel (Feb 21, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> PS4 will cost $429.99, "Elite" model at $529.99: I brought this up multiple times earlier but since GBAtemp is clearly retarded, here's the actual source. I know you may go "lolkotaku", but this same source had all his other details confirmed in the presentation, such as the new Playstation Eye and DualShock 4. So this does have a fair amount of credit to it.


 
according to the source every ps4 will come with the playstation kinect eye, which does makes sense as the dualshock 4 has the backlight for it...

I am finding it hard to believe that the console will cost less than 500$ with all that hardware... killzone did look impressive and this is only the beginning...

I can see them pull a crap like "specially made hard disk" where they invent a different port and then they sell the ps4 for 430$ with a 4 gb hard drive while the elite model having 320 gb

according to the source most of the online features will require online subscription like xbox live... so maybe the elite has a 3 months free on the playstation miiverse world or pulling a crap like the standard model cannot connect to it

and please, don't lecture me about sony learning from past mistakes... they said they learned from the psp and that they will support the home and handheld console evenly...

also, playing uncompleted games while still downloading them is nothing new... diablo 3 already did that at least


----------



## EJames2100 (Feb 21, 2013)

I find this picture quite relevant here...


Spoiler


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## Gahars (Feb 21, 2013)

EJames2100 said:


> Spoiler


 
9Gag's regurgitating Buckley now? It's like some horrific human centipede of life.


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 21, 2013)

Got this from redmondpie:



> The announcement of the PlayStation 4 may have passed, but plenty of questions pertaining to the upcoming console remain unanswered. New details are emerging by the hour, and Joystiq has learned that while the *PS4 will offer 4K output for video, the same cannot be said for games.* This has its pros and cons, of course, notably that while you’re not going to be forced to spend big bucks on a gleaming new 4K TV, it also means you’re not going to be seeing games run at that incredibly high resolution, at least not yet.



I believe 4k TVs will be mass produced during the PS5 launch so... Yeah.


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## trumpet-205 (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm a bit shocked to see they named it PS4, since the number "4" closely sounds like death in Asian language (read Tetraphobia). Similar to here in US we tend to avoid the number "13" (Triskaidekaphobia).

Anyway I'm impressed by the specification of PS3. 8GB GDDR5 in unified configuration (shared by both CPU and GPU)? This clearly beats a mid-range PC gaming setup where data does not need to travel from DDR3 to PCIe to GDDR5. I can see PS4 can hold out for quite sometime assuming PS4 is successful.

I'm a bit curious on the controller though. Seems like Sony decided to integrate Move and Dualshock controller together, wonder how well it will work with motion control.


----------



## Slowking (Feb 22, 2013)

One important thing that the 1st post doesn't state is that CPU and GPU are on the same die (I hope that's how it's spelled).
That enables the RAM to be shared without latency problems and reduces latency between CPU and GPU by a lot.
Also probably doesn't hurt that such a design brings down production costs.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 22, 2013)

trumpet-205 said:


> I'm a bit shocked to see they named it PS4, since the number "4" closely sounds like death in Asian language (read Tetraphobia). Similar to here in US we tend to avoid the number "13" (Triskaidekaphobia).
> 
> Anyway I'm impressed by the specification of PS3. 8GB GDDR5 in unified configuration (shared by both CPU and GPU)? This clearly beats a mid-range PC gaming setup where data does not need to travel from DDR3 to PCIe to GDDR5. I can see PS4 can hold out for quite sometime assuming PS4 is successful.
> 
> I'm a bit curious on the controller though. Seems like Sony decided to integrate Move and Dualshock controller together, wonder how well it will work with motion control.


 
If anything, they'd pronounce it phonetically (PS4 or ピー・エス・フォアー  "pii esu foa") to avoid saying 四 yon or shi, which means four. Being an English acronym, they'd say it without using the real number for 4.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm sure people do have a fear of the number four but no more so than thirteen in the US. And they still had Resident Evil 4, Street Fighter IV, hell even the upcoming Monster Hunter 4. I seriously doubt the number four impacts sales.


----------



## tbgtbg (Feb 22, 2013)

chris888222 said:


> Got this from redmondpie:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe 4k TVs will be mass produced during the PS5 launch so... Yeah.



It's basically just like how most PS3 games only output at 720p even though the system does 1080p for video.


----------



## narutofan777 (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't get some of these people.. why do ya'll wanna see how the console looks like so bad??

it might be ugly as heck or *good lookin*'  but why does it matter?


----------



## trumpet-205 (Feb 22, 2013)

tbgtbg said:


> It's basically just like how most PS3 games only output at 720p even though the system does 1080p for video.


 
Yeah, I can't see gaming will be rendered at 4K. Right now PS3 renders game at 720p then upscale it to 1808p before sending it to the TV. I imagine this will be how PS4 handles 4K resolution as well.


----------



## Last Symphony (Feb 22, 2013)

The thing about other players controlling your character reminds me of invading in Dark Souls. Could be an interesting element that can be used for PvP.


----------



## SuzieJoeBob (Feb 22, 2013)

ProtoKun7 said:


> The new controller actually doesn't look that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Read the words in front of you. It's a pad, not a screen.


It is almost a complete 1:1 from the Ouya controller, aside from the PS button and the D-pad/analog stick location swap.


----------



## Wombo Combo (Feb 22, 2013)




----------



## koimayeul (Feb 22, 2013)

Too bad for backward compatibility.. That UI looks a lot like Steam big Picture. Besides, looks like a high tech product again, now the price and exclusives.. Need some FF7 remake to dig some business, Sony!!


----------



## mightymuffy (Feb 22, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> A miscellaneous patent doesn't equal "PS4 BLOCKS USED GAMES" considering there was nothing that said the PS4 would. It was a random patent.


But the fact remains that Sony are still dabbling around with the whole idea. I'm not trying to defend my wonderful MS here, my guess is they're sorta both in this together: gone are the days of the 2 companies 'hating' each other: last years e3 was proof MS have Google & Apple in the radar, whilst Sony are just thankful they're still here....

Anyway, this is all very vague, but here's another link: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-says-ps4-won-39-t-block-used-game-sales.aspx. A couple of [possible eejits] from my forum are thinking this probably translates to an activation code needing purchasing if you buy the game used.... probably giving you an hours trial until you buy or similar. This was actually mooted last year for upcoming Sony machines, whereas MS idea is to stop the discs from even playing.
Speculation I know, but you don't hear loads of news about it, with 3rd parties welcoming the idea, then suddenly they turn round and kick the whole thing into touch (especially after filing a patent). I hope people are looking too much into it of course, but then again I wouldn't write the idea off....


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 22, 2013)

$900?
I hear Nintendo laughing


----------



## leic7 (Feb 22, 2013)

Whoever did the intro video should be overseeing the entire presentation as well... if they did, they would've noticed all presenters on this 2-hour show were guys. All of them. Except the voice announcer at the beginning that said "Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Andrew House."


----------



## Gahars (Feb 22, 2013)

leic7 said:


> Whoever did the intro video should be overseeing the entire presentation as well... if they did, they would've noticed all presenters on this 2-hour show were guys. All of them. Except the voice announcer at the beginning that said "Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Andrew House."


 
To be fair, all the speakers were developers or heads of game companies, and the video game industry is pretty male-dominated. Unfortunately, female developers aren't all that common. It's not a Sony thing - it's pretty much an industry thing.

It sucks that the lineup wasn't more diversified, sure, but at least they didn't put someone unqualified or irrelevant up on the stage for the sake of having one token woman.


----------



## VMM (Feb 22, 2013)

trumpet-205 said:


> I'm a bit shocked to see they named it PS4, since the number "4" closely sounds like death in *Asian language* (read Tetraphobia). Similar to here in US we tend to avoid the number "13" (Triskaidekaphobia).


 
There is no asian language, asia is a continent.
There are different languages and cultures,
and although some share the superstition about the number 4,
the rumour about Sony not using PS4 name was stricktly because of japanese superstition to number 4, 
and not related with any other asian cultures and beliefs


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 22, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> $900?
> I hear Nintendo laughing


Which part of $429.99 for Basic and $529.99 for Elite was not clear?


----------



## VMM (Feb 22, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> $900?
> I hear Nintendo laughing


 
Do you really think the final price will be $900.
It probably will be just as Foxi already said.
For now, they have to fear Sony and Microsoft consoles, since WiiU is going from bad to worse in terms of sales.


----------



## Jiehfeng (Feb 22, 2013)

VMM said:


> Do you really think the final price will be $900.
> It probably will be just as Foxi already said.
> For now, they have to fear Sony and Microsoft consoles, since WiiU is going from bad to worse in terms of sales.


 


Spoiler










Oh sorry, I don't know that much about gaming and I didn't know that the pre order price is like this.
So the original price $430. Thankyou for explaining


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 22, 2013)

Jiehfeng said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which part of _"Placeholder Price"_ was unclear in this picture?


----------



## LockeCole_101629 (Feb 22, 2013)

http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2013/02/21/amd/

finally...


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 22, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Which part of $429.99 for Basic and $529.99 for Elite was not clear?


Does anywhere say what the difference between the two? What do each one contain?


Maybe they should have did a bc model.


----------



## FAST6191 (Feb 22, 2013)

"semi custom"
Nice.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 22, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Does anywhere say what the difference between the two? What do each one contain?


We'll have to wait until E3 to learn more about the console unless Sony will issue a statement regarding the price. For now it's all speculation, however it sounds legit considering the hardware used.


FAST6191 said:


> "semi custom"
> Nice.


The phrasing used is silly - the build is custom because it's _"not like the stock models"_, a chip can be custom, meaning adjusted to the needs of your final customer or not custom, meaning what you normally release. There's no gradation here.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 22, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Does anywhere say what the difference between the two? What do each one contain?
> 
> 
> Maybe they should have did a bc model.


 
No, it only says a $429.99 and $529.99 model.

Probably something like $429.99 "basic" model and $529.99 model with a larger hard drive and maybe some pack ins (a couple months of subscription, a game, something like that).

I think a BC model would cost more that $529.99.


----------



## McHaggis (Feb 22, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> No, it only says a $429.99 and $529.99 model.
> 
> Probably something like $429.99 "basic" model and $529.99 model with a larger hard drive and maybe some pack ins (a couple months of subscription, a game, something like that).
> 
> I think a BC model would cost more that $529.99.


 
If the price is $429.99 then that's not too bad, but I'd expect an unfavourable conversion to pounds, and then there's always the subject of VAT. The basic Wii U launched at $299 and £250 (on average), so I'd probably guess at £350 if that figure is accurate.

Earlier, you quoted Kotaku as your source, but later they clarified that the price was converted from the expected price in Yen. Also, they said that the translation sounds more like speculation than a rumour due to differing translations:


> The origina; _Asahi_ story goes on to say that the PS4 will launch for the end of year sales war in Japan and the US, and that it looks to be priced over ¥40,000. (That's US$427, but assume it would translate to US$400.) There was no specific US pricing in the original article. The original Japanese text in the _Asahi_ piece (???4???????????) is rather vague, as "to mirareru" (?????) can mean "is believed", "is expected" or even "is considered to be". In short, this seems like speculation. Yet, this is the bit of news everyone is latching on to.


----------



## Yepi69 (Feb 22, 2013)

emigre said:


> Insightful perspective.


----------



## joelv6 (Feb 22, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I started Tales of Graces F a while back, got bored at one point and shut it off. I've been meaning to pick it up, but Ni No Kuni was just too tempting. So now I'm switching between that and L.A Noire.


 
I agree about getting bored at one point but the thing that kept me going was the skits, lol those skits are hecka funny. I'll be opening Ni No Kuni real soon



Guild McCommunist said:


> Here's just some general news roundup:
> 
> 
> Current PSN games won't transfer to the PS4: Really a huge bummer, I could see no backwards compatibility but this neuters the chance of transferring your digital PS3 purchases to streamable games. It's a fair complaint if you wanted something to ride.
> ...


 
Boo for not transferring psn stuff
YEEE for Vita but I'm not getting it until they release Tales of in the states

And people please don't worry about the price, people will still buy it lol so yeah


----------



## Gahars (Feb 22, 2013)

Flame said:


> *snip*


 

Just a quick update - PS4 games will be priced between $0.99 and $60.

So, people, if you needed any confirmation that these preorder numbers are bogus, well, there you go.


----------



## Flame (Feb 22, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Just a quick update - PS4 games will be priced between $0.99 and $60.
> 
> So, people, if you needed any confirmation that these preorder numbers are bogus, well, there you go.


 
damn you Gahars, your ways of puns and truths.


----------



## urbanman2004 (Feb 22, 2013)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-22-ps4-pc-like-architecture-8gb-ram-delight-developers
After seen the visual of KillZone, I have now become a believer


----------



## joelv6 (Feb 22, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Just a quick update - PS4 games will be priced between $0.99 and $60.
> 
> So, people, if you needed any confirmation that these preorder numbers are bogus, well, there you go.


 
Thanks of the update, I don't have to worry about having to work more hours to buy video games lol


----------



## Chary (Feb 22, 2013)

Will it allow used games?


----------



## urbanman2004 (Feb 22, 2013)

Chary said:


> Will it allow used games?


 Yes it will. There is no lock on it


----------



## VMM (Feb 22, 2013)

urbanman2004 said:


> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-22-ps4-pc-like-architecture-8gb-ram-delight-developers
> After seen the visual of KillZone, I have now become a believer


 
If I'm not mistaken, Killzone was using only 4GB of RAM.
Its performance can increase.


----------



## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Feb 22, 2013)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> It is almost a complete 1:1 from the Ouya controller, aside from the PS button and the D-pad/analog stick location swap.


Really that's funny because I think it looks just like the Dualshock 3




Wow Sony sure do like to copy oh wait...


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 22, 2013)

VMM said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Killzone was using only 4GB of RAM.
> Its performance can increase and they can use more *Anti-Aliasing and** Aniostropic Filter*


Yeah...more RAM won't help with that. They were already using 4GB of GDDR5.


----------



## joelv6 (Feb 22, 2013)

soo no region lock??? unless I missed it or I'm blind haha


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 22, 2013)

emigre said:


> As someone who has worked in retail, I don't think I can ever articulate how I felt at the number of times, I've had clueless parents believing the Wii U to be a controller or the 3DS being like the DS but just in 3D.
> 
> Whilst numbering if unexciting and unoriginal, it does making fucking clear there is some sort of progression and that the system with a higher number is new system altogether.



I don't think it makes much of a difference. I remember in the 90s my brother bought a GI Joe game for the NES, even though we only had a Super NES at the time, and the cartidges clearly look different. He reckoned it was all Nintendo so it should just play.

To prove this isn't just a Nintendo problem, googling "can you play ps3 games on a ps2" gets quite a few results.


----------



## mightymuffy (Feb 22, 2013)

McHaggis said:


> If the price is $429.99 then that's not too bad, but I'd expect an unfavourable conversion to pounds, and then there's always the subject of VAT. The basic Wii U launched at $299 and £250 (on average), so I'd probably guess at £350 if that figure is accurate.


 
Might be better than you think! Yeah we're usually shafted here in the UK but this is promising news, and if it's true, may lead to ~£380 for the deluxe model..... £380 is still pushing $580, but it could be a lot worse! Personally I'm hoping we also get a Holiday 2013 release, but there's no news there...


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 22, 2013)

VMM said:


> It's not asian language, there are many asian languages.
> In *Japanese, *four is shi, which is related to death.
> Japanese avoid using shi, and many times, they use Yon instead.
> The same happens to number seven which is called shichi, and many times they use nana instead.


Actually, It's the same for Chinese and some indochinese languages (I believe Korean as well).
So yeah, Asian term is more precise than just Japanese. You're not wrong though.
The number 4 is simply a taboo in East Asia.

But since it's for an international audience, using a number is definitely easier to remember than using another term.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 22, 2013)

Would they change the specs?
http://gameolosophy.com/consoles/playstation/ps4-specs-not-finalized-goodbye-to-eight-gig-ddr5-ram/


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 23, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Would they change the specs?
> http://gameolosophy.com/consoles/playstation/ps4-specs-not-finalized-goodbye-to-eight-gig-ddr5-ram/


No. Unlike what some people think, changing the specs of a console in development isn't as easy as changing a number in a chart.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 23, 2013)

To be more specific, changing from 8GB to, say, 4GB of GDDR5 _(although that's unlikely to happen)_ would cause no issues whatsoever wheras changing from GDDR5 to DDR5 leads to many complications. That, and do note that _the memory will be shared between the system and the GPU_ so if they don't want the slowest VRAM in the universe, they need to stay with GDDR5 at this point.


----------



## SuzieJoeBob (Feb 23, 2013)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:


> Really that's funny because I think it looks just like the Dualshock 3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see what you did there.......but you should have at least shown an image of the XBOX 360's controller, as it has the transposed analog stick and D-pad. Silly nublet, Trix are for kids!!!!



Foxi4 said:


> To be more specific, changing from 8GB to, say, 4GB of GDDR5 _(although that's unlikely to happen)_ would cause no issues whatsoever wheras changing from GDDR5 to DDR5 leads to many complications. That, and do note that _the memory will be shared between the system and the GPU_ so if they don't want the slowest VRAM in the universe, they need to stay with GDDR5 at this point.


tl;dr for non tech-savvy: The "G" in GDDR5 stands for "good"/"gooder"


----------



## leic7 (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> To be fair, all the speakers were developers or heads of game companies, and the video game industry is pretty male-dominated. Unfortunately, female developers aren't all that common. It's not a Sony thing - it's pretty much an industry thing.
> 
> It sucks that the lineup wasn't more diversified, sure, but at least they didn't put someone unqualified or irrelevant up on the stage for the sake of having one token woman.


A lot more positions can be appropriate for the presentation of a video game than for a console. Sony could at least make an effort with the other companies who came to their event to present games. I mean, doesn't any of those big dev teams have at least one qualified woman as designer, writer, producer, coordinator, or marketing manager? This seemed more like an oversight of Sony's PR department, than a failed attempt at a more diversified roster... it's like nobody in their PR even *noticed* they had an all-male team, everyone just sent their 'default' media people and they all ended up there by default. Or maybe I have just severely underestimated the difficulty in finding even one female employee from all these companies who is qualified enough to present a video game. Anyway, "token" or not, if a competitor has any female team members to present their projects, but Sony had none, it doesn't look good for Sony.


----------



## Mantis41 (Feb 23, 2013)

I watched the Killzone and watchdog videos. I'm impressed and want one. 

Not wishing to start a flame war this is personal opinion only but, Nintendo have really disappointed me with their latest offering. Once again they are going to be 6 years behind with a console that is once again mainly targeted at young kids. I guess they know their market but, I was really hoping they were making a proper gaming console this time. In a few years time when all the gaming engines are updated there is now way in hell the Nintendo console will be able to run the A1 titles. It can barely run the current engines.


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 23, 2013)

Nothing that really interests me so far. A lot of stuff that isn't games, which is fine as long as there's decent games as well. They need a system seller and I can't see one yet.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

leic7 said:


> A lot more positions can be appropriate for the presentation of a video game than for a console. Sony could at least make an effort with the other companies who came to their event to present games. I mean, doesn't any of those big dev teams have at least one qualified woman as designer, writer, producer, coordinator, or marketing manager? This seemed more like an oversight of Sony's PR department, than a failed attempt at a more diversified roster... it's like nobody in their PR even *noticed* they had an all-male team, everyone just sent their 'default' media people and they all ended up there by default. Or maybe I have just severely underestimated the difficulty in finding even one female employee from all these companies who is qualified enough to present a video game. Anyway, "token" or not, if a competitor has any female team members to present their projects, but Sony had none, it doesn't look good for Sony.


 

That's extremely unfair to whoever's chosen - essentially, they're being shoved onstage not because of their particular talent, drive, or accomplishments; instead, they're just defined by their genitalia because of some arbitrary quota. The intention may be nice, sure, but the message such it sends is a huge slap in the face.

Plus, putting writers/marketers/etc. onstage for tech demos? Yeah, that's going to be pretty obvious. Even with producers/designers/etc., you're putting people without serious training or experience in public speaking in front of millions. That doesn't sound like a great plan. Hell, even the presenters with experience were often awkward and shifting. You can't quite just throw someone on stage and expect magic to happen.

As I said before, the games industry is heavily weighted towards males. According to Forbes, at least 88% of its employers are male - and I guarantee you that ratio only gets more and more skewed as you go up the corporate ladder. Sony probably wanted to use big, respectable names (or, at least, higher-ups from big, respectable developers) to lend credibility to the product they were selling. The sad fact is, you're more likely to find Waldo in a random crowd than a woman who fits that categorization.

I'm glad people are noticing this, but to lay the blame at Sony's feet (especially when they've been using scholarships to encourage women to enter the industry for years now) is to miss the bigger picture. It's not a Sony problem, it's an industry problem, and it's not a problem that will be remedied until we begin addressing it as such.


----------



## mightymuffy (Feb 23, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> To be more specific, changing from 8GB to, say, 4GB of GDDR5 _(although that's unlikely to happen)_ would cause no issues whatsoever wheras changing from GDDR5 to DDR5 leads to many complications. That, and do note that _the memory will be shared between the system and the GPU_ so if they don't want the slowest VRAM in the universe, they need to stay with GDDR5 at this point.


AFAIK, GDDR5 only comes in modules of 512Mb, meaning there's 16 of those babies in a PS4.... heh, the console may indeed end up being the size of a wooden plinth! (but who cares! ) Changing down to 4Gb would therefore mean changing the number of slots down to 8 as there's no point keeping a board with 16 in: basically if they've announced 8Gb (and devs across the world have all heard - and are most impressed, natch - by the news), dropping back down to 4Gb would be neither issue free, or would it go down very well in the first place.... we can all surely see there's a couple of 'catches' coming before release, thankfully the RAM change in my opinion won't be one of them! .....The rumour's probably been started by the MS fanbois anyway....

The games will come at e3 BlueStar, what we had there, bar possibly Killzone, were glorified tech demos like we always get at this time in a pre-release build up. Save your final judgement on the games until we've seen them being played at e3, and perhaps more importantly, don't forget the first wave syndrome - I think you could've coloured most of us unimpressed by the first wave of PS3 & 360 games too.... nowadays those consoles are churning out Uncharted 3 and Forza Horizon - visually worlds away from the launch titles!


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 23, 2013)

leic7 said:


> A lot more positions can be appropriate for the presentation of a video game than for a console. Sony could at least make an effort with the other companies who came to their event to present games. I mean, doesn't any of those big dev teams have at least one qualified woman as designer, writer, producer, coordinator, or marketing manager? This seemed more like an oversight of Sony's PR department, than a failed attempt at a more diversified roster... it's like nobody in their PR even *noticed* they had an all-male team, everyone just sent their 'default' media people and they all ended up there by default. Or maybe I have just severely underestimated the difficulty in finding even one female employee from all these companies who is qualified enough to present a video game. Anyway, "token" or not, if a competitor has any female team members to present their projects, but Sony had none, it doesn't look good for Sony.


 
Yeah Microsoft, Nintendo, or anyone else who has a conference has almost never had a female game developer.

EDIT: And they're not gonna pull out the secretary at Sony HQ just for token female diversity. Why weren't there any black people at the show? Where were the Native Americans? Sony is now racist too!


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 23, 2013)

Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention to whether women, lesbians, gays, transgenders, transsexuals, furries, blacks, indians, asians, jews, slavs, martians and/or others were on the stage because I was too busy staring at games.

...I love it when people completely lose the touch with what's important on a presentation and instead focus on one completely coincidental detail.


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

chris888222 said:


> Actually, It's the same for Chinese and some indochinese languages (I believe Korean as well).
> So yeah, Asian term is more precise than just Japanese. You're not wrong though.
> The number 4 is simply a taboo in East Asia.
> 
> But since it's for an international audience, using a number is definitely easier to remember than using another term.


 
Asia is a continent, and there are huge differences between it's countries,
let's compare Russia, India and Japan, it's totally different.
Aside there is no "asian language", as the OP said.
The main reason of Sony avoiding number 4 was japan only,
probably they don't give a fuck about chinese and indonesian.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> Asia consists on many countries, and there are huge differences between them,
> let's compare Russia, India and Japan, it's totally different.
> Aside there is no "asian language", as the OP said.


Sounds almost as is _Asia was a continent... Hmm..._


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 23, 2013)

Is the number 4 really as feared as Godzilla in Japan or are we just all assuming things because of some fun fact we read online somewhere?

Like I wanna know seriously because it's not like popular Japanese games avoid the number 4 altogether. Resident Evil 4, Street Fighter IV, Monster Hunter 4, Persona 4, Final Fantasy IV.

EDIT: Metal Gear Solid 4, Dragon Warrior IV.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 23, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Is the number 4 really as feared as Godzilla in Japan or are we just all assuming things because of some fun fact we read online somewhere.


<---- Foxi*4*

WEEBOO DESTROYERS NATION REPRESENT!


----------



## Scuba156 (Feb 23, 2013)

This just in! PS4 set to fail as they had no females on stage at their presentation! The world over is waiting to see if Microsoft can pull off an all female line up and win the next generation war! Also, could the 4 in the name be a hint by Sony at the death of the PlayStation? Only time will tell!

Or not...


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 23, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Is the number 4 really as feared as Godzilla in Japan or are we just all assuming things because of some fun fact we read online somewhere?
> 
> Like I wanna know seriously because it's not like popular Japanese games avoid the number 4 altogether. Resident Evil 4, Street Fighter IV, Monster Hunter 4, Persona 4, Final Fantasy IV.
> 
> EDIT: Metal Gear Solid 4, Dragon Warrior IV.



The number 4 over there is similar to 13 over here. Some people care, some don't.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 23, 2013)

mysticwaterfall said:


> The number 4 over there is similar to 13 over here. Some people care, some don't.


 
Well most people here don't care enough where the number thirteen affects their actual life so yeah, why are we making a deal about it being called the PS4?


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 23, 2013)

Scuba156 said:


> This just in! PS4 set to fail as they had no females on stage at their presentation! The world over is waiting to see if Microsoft can pull off an all female line up and win the next generation war!


Oh well...


----------



## Scuba156 (Feb 23, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh well...


I seen that just after I posted the breaking news myself. Thanks for the source backup and verification.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 23, 2013)

What MS really needs is a bunch of vertically challenged lesbian jewish native americans. They couldn't possibly lose then.


----------



## Scuba156 (Feb 23, 2013)

mysticwaterfall said:


> What MS really needs is a bunch of vertically challenged lesbian jewish native americans. They couldn't possibly lose then.


No Asian vertically challenged lesbian Jewish native american transexuals? Surely there setting themselves up for an epic disaster of their new console.


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> Asia consists on many countries, and there are huge differences between them,
> let's compare Russia, India and Japan, it's totally different.
> Aside there is no "asian language", as the OP said.
> *The main reason of Sony avoiding number 4 *was japan only,
> probably they don't give a fuck about chinese and indonesian.


They didn't avoid 4 anyway.

It's really obvious Sony doesn't give a fuck to other culture taboos. What I'm trying to say in the end is that the number 4, internationally, is just viewed as a number. They are not going to bother renaming it just for the sake of one continent.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 23, 2013)

Come to think of it, they should all be in wheel chairs too. That's a whole demographic not currently represented. Sony clearly hates the handicapped.

They should be orphans and war veterans too.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 23, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> I watched the Killzone and watchdog videos. I'm impressed and want one.
> Not wishing to start a flame war this is personal opinion only but, Nintendo have really disappointed me with their latest offering. Once again they are going to be 6 years behind with a console that is once again mainly targeted at young kids. I guess they know their market but, I was really hoping they were making a proper gaming console this time. In a few years time when all the gaming engines are updated there is now way in hell the Nintendo console will be able to run the A1 titles. It can barely run the current engines.


I'm not going do a whole explanation of why this whole thing is just wrong because even tho you spiting out this doom and gloom nonsense mentality, you should at least already partially know why. How can you judge the console when ,one ,nothing seriously has been built from the groud up for it and ,two, when hater comments that sounds similar to yours is always wrong?


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 23, 2013)

Personally I think the difference in power isn't going to amount to as much of a practical difference. It's been happening in computers for years.  But we shall see in the future, as it is still early.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 23, 2013)

chris888222 said:


> They didn't avoid 4 anyway.
> 
> It's really obvious Sony doesn't give a fuck to other culture taboos. What I'm trying to say in the end is that the number 4, internationally, is just viewed as a number. They are not going to bother renaming it just for the sake of one continent.


 
The number four is not as big of a deal as you're making it out to me. It's not named "Playstation Hiroshima".


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 23, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The number four is not as big of a deal as you're making it out to me. It's not named "Playstation Hiroshima".


I'm trying to say that 4 isn't a big deal. The person who started this said that he/she was surprised that Sony named it PS4 even though 4 is a Japanese taboo. I simply added on to what he said (yes it was off topic), but I did say on an international scale, this taboo is simply bull or insignificant. I never emphasized about anything "PSHiroshima or PSNagasaki".


----------



## porkiewpyne (Feb 23, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...I love it when people completely lose the *touch* with what's important on a presentation and instead focus on one completely coincidental detail.


And to think one of the key features of the presentation was the controller which now has a touchpad. ;o;


----------



## RyanHwang (Feb 23, 2013)

I saw that release date is End of 2013...


----------



## weavile001 (Feb 23, 2013)

RyanHwang said:


> i saw that release date is End of 2013...


you don´t say?


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

chris888222 said:


> They didn't avoid 4 anyway.
> 
> It's really obvious Sony doesn't give a fuck to other culture taboos. What I'm trying to say in the end is that the number 4, internationally, is just viewed as a number. They are not going to bother renaming it just for the sake of one continent.


 
PS4 was called Playstation Orbis for a long time,
and rumors said it wouldn't be called PS4 because *of japanese culture *in relation to number 4.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> PS4 was called Playstation Orbis for a long time,
> and rumors said it wouldn't be called PS4 because *of japanese culture *in relation to number 4.


 
Orbis was just a code name used during development. Companies give their products code names all the time as a way of maintaining secrecy. They have no bearing on the final name of the product.


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

My mistake, forget that.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> It's not that obvious, personally, I believe it will be released early 2014.


 
I don't know, I thought the giant display screen that said "Coming Holiday 2013" was pretty obvious.


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I don't know, I thought the giant display screen that said "Coming Holiday 2013" was pretty obvious.


 
Sorry, I didn't watch the conference, my mistake.



Gahars said:


> Orbis was just a code name used during development. Companies give their products code names all the time as a way of maintaining secrecy. They have no bearing on the final name of the product.


 
There was a rumour that it would not be called PS4 because of japanese culture.
This rumor also said it would be named Orbis, same as developers kit.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> There was a rumour that it would not be called PS4 because of japanese culture.
> This rumor also said it would be named Orbis, same as developers kit.


 
The rumor made little sense to begin with and has obviously been confirmed to have been completely, utterly wrong. So... your point is?


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> Sorry, I didn't watch the conference, my mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
A lot of things about death and everything related to Japanese beliefs have been released though.


----------



## Mantis41 (Feb 23, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> I'm not going do a whole explanation of why this whole thing is just wrong because even tho you spiting out this doom and gloom nonsense mentality, you should at least already partially know why. How can you judge the console when ,one ,nothing seriously has been built from the groud up for it and ,two, when hater comments that sounds similar to yours is always wrong?


 
Seriously guys why do you defend Nintendo so? Nintendo promised a gamers console and instead have produced another fun orientated family and kids machine and an expensive one at that. I'm disappointed as hell.


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> The rumor made little sense to begin with and has obviously been confirmed to have been completely, utterly wrong. So... your point is?


 
If you saw my previous posts you would know.
I was only correcting a dude that said 4 is death in asian language.



Mantis41 said:


> Seriously guys why do you defend Nintendo so? Nintendo promised a gamers console and instead have produced another fun orientated family and kids machine and an expensive one at that. I'm disappointed as hell.


 
I hope WiiU fail so hard that Nintendo stops this casual gamer's console shit.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> If you saw my previous posts you would know.
> I was only correcting a dude that said 4 is death in asian language.


 
If that's what you were arguing, you went off the rails quite a few posts ago.

Not to mention that you're wrong, anyway - it's not just Japan that is superstitious about the number 4. It's shared across several different Asian cultures. Take, for example, China.


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> If that's what you were arguing, you went off the rails quite a few posts ago.
> 
> Not to mention that you're wrong, anyway - it's not just Japan that is superstitious about the number 4. It's shared across several different Asian cultures. Take, for example, China.


 
Slowpoke is slow.
Chris already said that.
You didn't read my posts at all.


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

VMM said:


> Slowpoke is slow.
> Chris already said that.
> You didn't read my posts at all.


 
You said he was wrong (saying that its a continent and all of its nations are different), then started arguing for rumors that have been known to be false for quite awhile now.

Maybe I'm something, sure, but if you're trying to get something else across, you're not being very clear.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Feb 23, 2013)

-


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> You said he was wrong (saying that its a continent and all of its nations are different), then started arguing for rumors that have been known to be false for quite awhile now.
> 
> Maybe I'm something, sure, but if you're trying to get something else across, you're not being very clear.


 
Let's makes this clear, what I was saying is:
There is no asian language, asia is a continent.
There are different languages and cultures,
and although some share the superstition about the number 4,
the rumour about Sony not using PS4 name was stricktly because of japanese superstition to number 4, 
and not related with any other asian cultures and beliefs

Is it clear enough now?


----------



## Gahars (Feb 23, 2013)

Peps said:


> Maintaining secrecy from what I've seen isn't normally the reason. In the software company I work for, a lot of us are working on a pretty big project, and it has an internal name. However, that's just because no final name has been decided yet by the higher ups, not because of secrecy. Secrets are maintained through your contracts as they always are.


 
That makes a lot of sense, though I think it's fair to say secrecy can play a large role for companies on the tier of Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, etc. If there are any leaks, they can still maintain some deniability, and it throws people off the scent.

I know movie studios do similar things (like naming Return of the Jedi "Blue Harvest" for the duration of production), but I'm probably just talking out of my ass at this point, though.



VMM said:


> Let's makes this clear, what I was saying is:
> There is no asian language, asia is a continent.
> There are different languages and cultures,
> and although some share the superstition about the number 4,
> ...


 
So you're trying to argue the specifics of a rumor that stunk of bullshit from the get-go? Alrighty then...


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> So you're trying to argue the specifics of a rumor that stunk of bullshit from the get-go? Alrighty then...


 
No, that's basically a resume of what I already said in these many posts.

trumpet-205 said that he was shocked that they named it PS4, since in "asian language" it's closely to death.
I said that asia is a continent and, and there is no "asian language", since there are many asian languages,
this is the only thing I was trying to show trumpet-205.


Then Chris888222, said that many asian languages have this same superstition about number 4.
Which had nothing to do with what I originaly said.

Then I was trying to make things clear, but it turned even more confusing.

Chris888222 misunderstood what I was saying again and said that sony never avoided the name PS4

Then I said that the rumour, which was brought trough the table by trumpet-205,
said Sony would not name it's next-gen console PS4, strickly because of japanese supestition. 

Some misundertanding here and there and when thinks were starting to become more clear,
you came with more misunderstanding.
The rest you know.
That's basically what happened.
I think I need to be more clear on my posts


----------



## Scuba156 (Feb 23, 2013)

Gahars said:


> That makes a lot of sense, though I think it's fair to say secrecy can play a large role for companies on the tier of Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, etc. If there are any leaks, they can still maintain some deniability, and it throws people off the scent.
> 
> I know movie studios do similar things (like naming Return of the Jedi "Blue Harvest" for the duration of production), but I'm probably just talking out of my ass at this point, though.


Secrecy is part of the reason, but orbis and Durango would be the internal names for the chipsets used inside the consoles, not the actual console itself. Much like xenon was the internal name for the Xbox 360's chipset, which went on into later revisions (even after the console had released and had an actual public name) such as jasper and trinity.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 23, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> Seriously guys why do you defend Nintendo so? Nintendo promised a gamers console and instead have produced another fun orientated family and kids machine and an expensive one at that. I'm disappointed as hell.


Maybe because you have this never satisfied, superiority complex, and heavy hypocritical biased, maybe even dumb, mindset?





VMM said:


> I hope WiiU fail so hard that Nintendo stops this casual gamer's console shit.


One, not going to happen and two are you serious or trolling?Casual?


Because of games? Most of the games have been mutiplates you cried about.


Power? You already seen a some of it. Just have to wait for the games that will use it to come out.


Waiting time? Because other companies don't have them?


Price? Because it's never too high for most people,right?

Innovation/adding new things?
Do you see what the other companies are doing?
Color?

Really, you only seen a little a bit about the ps4 and you already about to make it your next girl/boyfriend.


Seriously tho, you want it to "fail so hard" for basically no reason, other then they aren't Sony.


----------



## VMM (Feb 23, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Maybe because you have this never satisfied and heavy hypocritical biased, maybe even dumb, mindset?
> One, not going to happen and two are you serious or trolling?
> Casual?


What do you think is the purpose of WiiU gamepad?
New gameplay method? No, it's main objective is attract casual gamers



KingVamp said:


> Maybe because you have this never satisfied and heavy hypocritical biased, maybe even dumb, mindset?
> Because of games? Most of the games have been mutiplates you cry about.
> Power? You already seen a some of it. Just have to wait for the games that will use it to come out.


 
Multiplats of last generation. 
WiiU hardly will be able to keep having the same multiplats PS4 and next-gen Xbox will have.








KingVamp said:


> Maybe because you have this never satisfied and heavy hypocritical biased, maybe even dumb, mindset?
> Waiting time? Because other companies don't have them?
> 
> Innovation/adding new things?Do you see what the other companies are doing?
> Color?


 
What are you talking about?



KingVamp said:


> Maybe because you have this never satisfied and heavy hypocritical biased, maybe even dumb, mindset?
> Price? Because it's never to high for most people,right?


 
Price will drop with time, do you remember PS3 launch?
Just be patient, and eventuly you'll be able to buy it.



KingVamp said:


> Maybe because you have this never satisfied and heavy hypocritical biased, maybe even dumb, mindset?
> Really, you only seen a little a bit about the ps4 and you already about to make it your next girl/boyfriend.
> Seriously tho, you want it to "fail so hard" for basically no reason, other then they aren't Sony.


 
WTF dude, did I say anything about Sony?
I didn't offend you, why are you taking this so personaly?
By the way, I will choose the most powerful console, Sony, MS or even Steambox, I don't know, just time will tell.

I want to have a decent quantity of third party games, and Wii was so underpowered that it almost didn't have third party games.
WiiU seems to be like Wii. It probably will have amazing first party games(just imagine SMG3 in HD), but it will lack third party support for being underpowered.

Selling underpowered console with gimmicks for casual gamers is working for Nintendo,
and until it fails, Nintendo will keep with this strategy,
that's why I hope it fails


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 24, 2013)

VMM said:


> What do you think is the purpose of WiiU gamepad?New gameplay method? No, it's main objective is attract casual gamers
> 
> 
> *Just like the ps4 and Vita other controls, right?*
> ...


Based on what you are saying, not only is Sony doing the same thing, they should fail with their console too.


-fix'd


----------



## leic7 (Feb 24, 2013)

Gahars said:


> That's extremely unfair to whoever's chosen - essentially, they're being shoved onstage not because of their particular talent, drive, or accomplishments; instead, they're just defined by their genitalia because of some arbitrary quota. The intention may be nice, sure, but the message such it sends is a huge slap in the face.
> 
> Plus, putting writers/marketers/etc. onstage for tech demos? Yeah, that's going to be pretty obvious. Even with producers/designers/etc., you're putting people without serious training or experience in public speaking in front of millions. That doesn't sound like a great plan. Hell, even the presenters with experience were often awkward and shifting. You can't quite just throw someone on stage and expect magic to happen.
> 
> ...


Please don't strawman. I wasn't saying they should put a woman there just because of her gender, I was saying they should have a woman there because of her talent, drive, accomplishments, etc. AND her gender. I don't know whether you're trying to tell me that it's *impossible* to find one such person from all those companies...or? My assumption is that it was possible to find at least one, but Sony didn't make the effort to do it for this particular event they're hosting. If Microsoft host a similar event for their xbox, and they can have at least one female team member for the presentation because they're willing to go the extra mile in order to find one, I'd lay the blame squarely at Sony's feet.

I don't blame Sony for the 'industry problem', like I said, everyone just sort of ended up there 'by default'. The point I think you're missing is this is a PR issue. Judging from their intro, Sony did want to attract a wider audience. It's a PR oversight to not go the extra mile at this PR event; if they had, they would've done a better job. But I'm optimistic that they'll learn something from this and be more mindful about their image for future events.



Guild McCommunist said:


> Yeah Microsoft, Nintendo, or anyone else who has a conference has almost never had a female game developer.
> 
> EDIT: And they're not gonna pull out the secretary at Sony HQ just for token female diversity. Why weren't there any black people at the show? Where were the Native Americans? Sony is now racist too!


...are you responding to what I said?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 24, 2013)

leic7 said:


> Please don't strawman. I wasn't saying they should put a woman there just because of her gender, I was saying they should have a woman there because of her talent, drive, accomplishments, etc. AND her gender. I don't know whether you're trying to tell me that it's *impossible* to find one such person from all those companies...or? My assumption is that it was possible to find at least one, but Sony didn't make the effort to do it for this particular event they're hosting. If Microsoft host a similar event for their xbox, and they can have at least one female team member for the presentation because they're willing to go the extra mile in order to find one, I'd lay the blame squarely at Sony's feet.
> 
> I don't blame Sony for the 'industry problem', like I said, everyone just sort of ended up there 'by default'. The point I think you're missing is this is a PR issue. Judging from their intro, Sony did want to attract a wider audience. It's a PR oversight to not go the extra mile at this PR event; if they had, they would've done a better job. But I'm optimistic that they'll learn something from this and be more mindful about their image for future events.


 
It's pretty fucking impossible.

Also why are you bringing up this criticism now compared to thousands of conferences from all developers where they have no women?

This feels like some TumblrInAction shit.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 24, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It's pretty fucking impossible.
> 
> Also why are you bringing up this criticism now compared to thousands of conferences from all developers where they have no women?
> 
> This feels like some TumblrInAction shit.


Why did Nintendo call their brawler games "Super Smash Bros." when there are women in them? Sexism. Amma gonna sue.


----------



## leic7 (Feb 24, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It's pretty fucking impossible.
> 
> Also why are you bringing up this criticism now compared to thousands of conferences from all developers where they have no women?
> 
> This feels like some TumblrInAction shit.


It's really that bad, eh? lol and the reason I am only bringing this up now as opposed to before is because I've only recently become conscious about this whole gender representation issue. I couldn't have brought it up earlier simply because I wasn't aware there were no women at most other events, until now! You've gotta start somewhere, don't you? As the video game industry begins to mature, so have I, I guess.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 24, 2013)

VMM said:


> Multiplats of last generation.
> WiiU hardly will be able to keep having the same multiplats PS4 and next-gen Xbox will have.


Eh, no. The Wii U features a GPU with DirectX 11 features that's about twice as powerful than the 360's GPU. Unlike the Wii, it's completely feasible to port over a game on traditional "next-gen" consoles to the Wii U. It doesn't have radically different architectures (like the Wii) nor is the power-gap as huge. Yes, there will be downgrades in geometry, textures and what not but it'll still be essentially the same game (think PC low vs. high).

The difference is that this time, it has more to do with whether third-parties will bother bringing their game to the Wii U and if they feel they can recoup the costs of porting. It's not a matter of _can't_ anymore.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 24, 2013)

leic7 said:


> It's really that bad, eh? lol and the reason I am only bringing this up now as opposed to before is because I've only recently become conscious about this whole gender representation issue. I couldn't have brought it up earlier simply because I wasn't aware there were no women at most other events, until now! You've gotta start somewhere, don't you? As the video game industry begins to mature, so have I, I guess.


 
Well it's kinda like complaining about almost all prominent Magic the Gathering players being male. Not much you can do about that.

And, well, Sony is starting somewhere by funding that aforementioned scholarship for women interested in game design.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 24, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Why did Nintendo call their brawler games "Super Smash Bros." when there are women in them? Sexism. Amma gonna sue.






Lady Palutena has already beaten you to the petition.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 24, 2013)

VMM said:


> Multiplats of last generation.
> WiiU hardly will be able to keep having the same multiplats PS4 and next-gen Xbox will have.


 
Agree with Soulx, but also should mention that the Wii U has at least one PS4 game confirmed coming to it in watch dogs. Which Ubisoft said would be "the same experience".


----------



## Gahars (Feb 24, 2013)

leic7 said:


> Please don't strawman. I wasn't saying they should put a woman there just because of her gender, I was saying they should have a woman there because of her talent, drive, accomplishments, etc. AND her gender.


 
Yeah, you say that, but at the end of the day, it's still a distinction made on the basis of that developers gender. I'm not strawmanning, I'm responding to exactly what you are proposing.



> I don't know whether you're trying to tell me that it's *impossible* to find one such person from all those companies...or?


 
I don't know whether you're telling me you didn't read my post all the way through...or?



> My assumption is that it was possible to find at least one, but Sony didn't make the effort to do it for this particular event they're hosting.


 
That's a pretty fucking huge leap to make with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, especially when (as we've already established), Sony has a history of being mindful on the subject.



> If Microsoft host a similar event for their xbox, and they can have at least one female team member for the presentation because they're willing to go the extra mile in order to find one, I'd lay the blame squarely at Sony's feet.


 
Or maybe Microsoft could be shoving someone onstage to take advantage of the easy publicity. Maybe, you know, there's more to this than baseless assumptions can address? I know, I know, crazy thought there, but chew on it for a bit.



> I don't blame Sony for the 'industry problem', like I said, everyone just sort of ended up there 'by default'. The point I think you're missing is this is a PR issue. Judging from their intro, Sony did want to attract a wider audience. It's a PR oversight to not go the extra mile at this PR event; if they had, they would've done a better job. But I'm optimistic that they'll learn something from this and be more mindful about their image for future events.


 
It's a "PR Issue" because people are nitpicking over nothing, or rather, looking for a way to be offended/slighted/etc. without taking the time to address the root problem. It's making a mountain out of a molehill while Mt. Everest looms over you.

I don't know, I just wonder where these armchair crusaders were when, let's say, Nintendo had their last Direct... or the one before that... or for most of the conferences at E3... at any E3, for that matter. Any takers?


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 24, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Why did Nintendo call their brawler games "Super Smash Bros." when there are women in them? Sexism. Amma gonna sue.


That's nothing. Nintendo has shown rampant sexism since the 80s with the Game *Boy* brand. What, girls don't play games too?


----------



## Gahars (Feb 24, 2013)

soulx said:


> That's nothing. Nintendo has shown rampant sexism since the 80s with the Game *Boy* brand. What, girls don't play games too?


 
And Nintendo, what if you don't fit into society's binary gender construct?

Check your CIS-privilege, shitnerds!


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 24, 2013)

soulx said:


> That's nothing. Nintendo has shown rampant sexism since the 80s with the Game *Boy* brand. What, girls don't play games too?


 
In fairness I would call it genius Nintendo marketing to avoid getting it confused with Gamer Chicks.

Warning: Worst shit on the net. Not NSFW, just you may die inside.


----------



## Mantis41 (Feb 24, 2013)

mysticwaterfall said:


> Agree with Soulx, but also should mention that the Wii U has at least one PS4 game confirmed coming to it in watch dogs. Which Ubisoft said would be "the same experience".


I think you're mistaking this. Ubisoft nearly didn't release the WiiU version. They are now saying it will be the same experience as the 360 and PS3 releases. This has nothing to do with next gen consoles and whether the WiiU will be able to keep up in a few years time.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 24, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> I think you're mistaking this. Ubisoft nearly didn't release the WiiU version. They are now saying it will be the same experience as the 360 and PS3 releases. This has nothing to do with next gen consoles and whether the WiiU will be able to keep up in a few years time.



And they say the PS3 experience will be the same as the PS4 (presumably, with slightly less graphics, no share, etc)
"So the same experience is there on the PS3 and other consoles. Players will have the same enjoyment; they will not feel any letdown."

http://m.kotaku.com/5986057/hey-wat...-first-instance-of-ps4-multiplayer-last-night

So yeah, it doesn't prove anything about the future in years to come. But as I said before, I don't think all this power amounts to much of a practical difference, so it won't be a matter of having to totally redo something like on the Wii. Now will, publishers want to? That's a different story, like soulx said.


----------



## Mantis41 (Feb 24, 2013)

mysticwaterfall said:


> And they say the PS3 experience will be the same as the PS4 (presumably, with slightly less graphics, no share, etc)
> "So the same experience is there on the PS3 and other consoles. Players will have the same enjoyment; they will not feel any letdown."
> 
> http://m.kotaku.com/5986057/hey-wat...-first-instance-of-ps4-multiplayer-last-night
> ...


 
It's kind of like saying the MW3 experience was the same on the Wii as other platforms. Most of the content was probably there but compared to others it was ugly as hell. Unfortunately this is where I see WiiU comparisons in 2 or 3 years time.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 24, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> It's kind of like saying the MW3 experience was the same on the Wii as other platforms. Most of the content was probably there but compared to others it was ugly as hell. Unfortunately this is where I see WiiU comparisons in 2 or 3 years time.


 
Technically it had less people for multiplayer, no voice chat, no map packs, and I'm not even sure if they kept the survival mode.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 24, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> It's kind of like saying the MW3 experience was the same on the Wii as other platforms. Most of the content was probably there but compared to others it was ugly as hell. Unfortunately this is where I see WiiU comparisons in 2 or 3 years time.


 
I don't think Activision ever said it would be the same though, and nobody was expecting it to be. Granted, Ubisoft has lied to us lately about other stuff *cough*Rayman*cough*


----------



## leic7 (Feb 24, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Yeah, you say that, but at the end of the day, it's still a distinction made on the basis of that developers gender. I'm not strawmanning, I'm responding to exactly what you are proposing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah, ok, I do make a distinction for gender against a backdrop of the severe under-representation of one gender and over-representation of another gender at this event. If a woman is qualified for the role, and all other equally qualified candidates are men, I would choose the woman to do the presentation. Is that what you have an issue with?

The gaming community is going through a transition, more and more people are starting to question things about this culture that they've taken for granted before, and I guess that's part of the reason why so many people seem to suddenly converge at the realization that there is a problem with looking like an exclusive boys club. Yes, the problem has been there forever, but they didn't see it before, and now they finally see it. This is actually a very positive thing. Sony has inadvertently played an instrumental role in kickstarting an awareness campaign/movement for change in the community. It's beautiful.

I did read your entire post, but I couldn't figure out if you meant finding a woman from those teams who is qualified enough to present a video game is a (near) impossibility, therefore no one could have possibly done it. My reasoning goes something like this: If you meant it's possible, not "easy", but possible if they make an effort, then the fact that there's no woman on stage would mean they didn't really make an effort, right? But if you meant it's simply impossible or near impossible, then how come the Microsoft folk thinks they can find a few members for their products, despite being in the same male-dominated industry as Sony?

It might be "easy publicity" for Microsoft if they showcase more diversity at their event (we'll see about that) than Sony did, but I wouldn't call the people asking for the same level of PR performance from Sony "looking for a way to be offended". People just have higher expectations now.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 24, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Technically it had less people for multiplayer, no voice chat, no map packs, and I'm not even sure if they kept the survival mode.


No, no, no - it did have Voice Chat. It's just that nobody on the planet owns a Wii Speak add-on.



leic7 said:


> ah, ok, *I do make a distinction for gender* against a backdrop of the severe under-representation of one gender and over-representation of another gender at this event. *If a woman is qualified for the role, and all other equally qualified candidates are men, I would choose the woman to do the presentation.* Is that what you have an issue with?


I don't think you know what sexism is. If you categorize the candidates on the basis of their gender and choose a female candidate not because of her higher qualifications but because she's a woman, _that's sexism._ Similarily, chosing a black presenter just because he's black to appease the coloured audiences is racism.

If you want to be fair, you don't choose a presenter because of his/her gender, colour of skin or any other characteristic features outside of their qualifications for the job.

Problems like these are usually solved by this fun thing called _"Job Interview"_ - it's a late 20th century invention - you round up people with similar qualifications and ask questions, you might've heard about it at some point.


----------



## VMM (Feb 24, 2013)

soulx said:


> Eh, no. The Wii U features a GPU with DirectX 11 features that's about twice as powerful than the 360's GPU. Unlike the Wii, it's completely feasible to port over a game on traditional "next-gen" consoles to the Wii U. It doesn't have radically different architectures (like the Wii) nor is the power-gap as huge. Yes, there will be downgrades in geometry, textures and what not but it'll still be essentially the same game (think PC low vs. high).
> 
> The difference is that this time, it has more to do with whether third-parties will bother bringing their game to the Wii U and if they feel they can recoup the costs of porting. It's not a matter of _can't_ anymore.


 
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
WiiU will feature the same CPU architecture as Wii, a IBM PPC,
while PS4 uses a Jaguar x86_64, they're completely different.

Porting to WiiU will be just as painful for developers as porting to Wii.

It's not just a matter of possibility only,
it has much more to do with it's been financially feasible.
Is it worth to spend time and money porting a game to WiiU?
Let the developers answer this.
My bet is it will be a second Wii in third party support,
with few ports from Capcom, Activision and Ubisoft.


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## Mantis41 (Feb 25, 2013)

VMM said:


> Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
> WiiU will feature the same CPU architecture as Wii, a IBM PPC,
> while PS4 uses a Jaguar x86_64, they're completely different.
> 
> ...


Doesn't the 360 have a 3 (6) core IBM PPC?


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## FAST6191 (Feb 25, 2013)

Had we still been in the days where assembly skills and in depth hardware knowledge were the order of the day I might have agreed for home consoles.
There I would be poring over instruction sets, architectures and similar such things, however modern compilers/languages as well as the desire for multiplatform have made assembly as more than a learning tool largely obsolete (and security potentially troubling things a lot there as well), ignoring shader languages (which tend not to be touched that much- see why every game is gunmetal grey and dogshit brown) most people on consoles do not have to fight too hard with getting hardware focused coding done (optimisation still happens but it is more code level than hardware and back up through it all), PPC and X86 (which is hardly the greatest instruction set) both being high end CISC processors means a bit and multicore beyond 2 cores largely being a pipe dream I would then look to graphics memory setups (dedicated vs shared), capabilities for onboard storage/install (not sure what goes here- I would have thought it would have been a certainty but the 360 slim seems to have moved back a bit from that so I have no idea), disc read speeds and the actual SDK (as far as what is provided for as far as network and what is required of you to as far as interfacing with the vendor online stuff). The only thing that might see me raise an eyebrow is the speed and precision of the floating point engine; the PS3/early Cell caught some flak for not having terribly high precision floating point engine.

Will I be able to use the term WiiPS720u similar to how I use PS360 today- not unless someone in an investment side of a game company gets broken in the head, calls someone that channels http://catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html and they port a lazily made PS720 title to the Wii U. Can I see a slight graphical downgrade* but still essentially the same game vs the current "they share a similar name" model- absolutely.

*asterisk as it could be the case that not everybody wants to employ seven kinds of texture artist and will instead just kick their 3d modeller the job as it was back in the day and the WiiPS720u becomes a valid term after all. Indeed several companies seem to have already gone in for this and made several games I actually quite like (alpha protocol and Deadly Premonition to name but two), not to mention the increased look at things like cel shading.


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## KingVamp (Feb 25, 2013)

VMM said:


> My bet is it will be a second Wii in third party support,
> with few ports from Capcom, Activision and Ubisoft.


More like you hope it will be. Why are you so pessimistic fix on that most multiplat games wouldn't
be on the Wii u when the gap isn't nearly as big as wii to ps3?  (I know why, you just won't admit it.)


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 25, 2013)

trumpet-205 said:


> I'm a bit shocked to see they named it PS4, since the number "4" closely sounds like death in Asian language (read Tetraphobia). Similar to here in US we tend to avoid the number "13" (Triskaidekaphobia).


Whereas here where I am we don't care about superstition because it means nothing whatsoever.


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## VMM (Feb 25, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> Doesn't the 360 have a 3 (6) core IBM PPC?


 
No, X360 uses a Xenon IBM CPU.
Its cores are sightly modified versions of the PPE in the Cell processors used on PS3.



KingVamp said:


> More like you hope it will be. Why are you so pessimistic fix on that most multiplat games wouldn't
> be on the Wii u when the gap isn't nearly as big as wii to ps3? (I know why, you just won't admit it.)


 
It's architecture is very different from PS4 and PC ones,
it is underpowered, and the situation of WiiU doesn't seen to be much different from Wii situation.

I criticized once WiiU and suddenly you got butthurt and started assuming shit.
Do you really think I'm the blindly biased one?
Stop kissing Nintendo's ass.


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## leic7 (Feb 26, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> No, no, no - it did have Voice Chat. It's just that nobody on the planet owns a Wii Speak add-on.
> 
> I don't think you know what sexism is. If you categorize the candidates on the basis of their gender and choose a female candidate not because of her higher qualifications but because she's a woman, _that's sexism._ Similarily, chosing a black presenter just because he's black to appease the coloured audiences is racism.
> 
> ...


sexism usually implies 'prejudice' based on sex. There's definitely a 'preference' based on gender -- again, the assumption is all candidates are already equally qualified -- but is that preference really 'prejudice' in the normal meaning of the word? What would be a prejudice-free way to choose a presenter from 15 equally qualified candidates? By lottery? From an organizer's perspective, those speakers were there to project and maintain a certain image for Sony. This conference is about PR. The image you want to project to the public is a deliberately and purposely crafted image, you don't leave things to chance in PR.

I think the introductory video and speech did a good job at projecting the kind of image Sony actually wanted to see projected for the company and its products: "Sony products are for everyone". I just think they could've done a better job at maintaining that image for the remainder of the show if they had a more diverse presenter lineup. Now, is it 'prejudice' to deliberately choose a different gender candidate from a pool of qualified candidates because you want a more consistent message to be delivered to the audience? I don't know. I think it's justified.

but thanks for the reminder that there are always "job interviews" to solve problems like those. No wonder gender representation in employment and career advancement has never been an issue ever since the invention of job interviews!


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## Gahars (Feb 26, 2013)

You're holding the other candidate's gender against them in the selection process; yes, that is prejudice. A more subtle form perhaps, but prejudiced nonetheless. In the end, you're discriminating based on gender, and that's wrong, mmkay?

(Pro-tip in race/gender/etc.: If it would be wrong to flip it around ("Among all equal candidates, I would only give the job to the man."), it's probably just wrong in the first place.)


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## Extremist (Feb 27, 2013)

Sorry if it's already been mentioned - I'm at work and can't read through 25 pages of comments. I just noticed in the last weekly newsletter from play-asia.com this was listed:

*PlayStation 4*

PlayStation4 Console System EUR US$ 599.90
PlayStation4 Console System US US$ 599.90
PlayStation4 Console System JPN US$ 599.90

*Dual Shock 4 Controllers*

Dual Shock 4 (Black) JPN US$ 69.90
Dual Shock 4 (Black) US US$ 69.90
Dual Shock 4 (Black) EUR US$ 69.90

It was linked to their site, but the price there was changed to "N/A". So this might not say anything, just wanted to mention it...


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## KingVamp (Feb 27, 2013)

VMM said:


> It's architecture is very different from PS4 and PC ones,
> it is underpowered, and the situation of WiiU doesn't seen to be much different from Wii situation.
> 
> I criticized once WiiU and suddenly you got butthurt and started assuming shit.
> Do you really think I'm the blindly biased one?


The ps2 was "underpowered" to the gamecube and same for all consoles vs PC. Ps3 architecture was difficult to developed for and it still got games. The wii u power gap isn't nearly the same as wii to ps3 and the architecture is easier to use then the ps3. The games are still being work up for us to see and and play sometime after e3. So I don't see what the problem is.

Yes, because you are a hypocrite towards Nintendo in general.

To state that the controller isn't meant to add to gameplay, but solely to get casuals.
Which isn't even true. It's crazy that it is taboo to add anything to gaming.

Possibly looking at the ps4? What do you call the facebook (etc.) connectivity? The share button and other addition to the controller like the touchpad? The Move with the 3d camera? Playing someone else game over a connection. Are you just looking at power and didn't see they are adding things like Nintendo is doing?

720 seem like they are doing the same by upgrading kinect plus, if even partially true, with all the stuff from that leak document.

Only care about the most power and got the money for it? Get a PC.

Whatever, let's wait until e3.


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## VMM (Feb 28, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> The ps2 was "underpowered" to the gamecube and same for all consoles vs PC. Ps3 architecture was difficult to developed for and it still got games.
> 
> The wii u power gap isn't nearly the same as wii to ps3 and the architecture is easier to use then the ps3. The games are still being work up for us to see and and play sometime after e3. So I don't see what the problem is.


 
Yes it was, but the PS2-GC power gap is small compared to WiiU-PS4 one.



KingVamp said:


> Yes, because you are a hypocrite towards Nintendo in general.
> To state that the controller isn't meant to add to gameplay, but solely to get casuals.
> 
> Which isn't even true. It's crazy that it is taboo to add anything to gaming.
> ...


 
I would not mind if they invested on this gamepad controller if they made a console as powerful as the PS4 and X720.
In fact, I'd pay even $700 if there was a Nintendo console as powerful as PS4.

I don't mind these features PS4 added, the same way I didn't mind Kinect,
because they are not the focus of the console, they're just unnecessary features that do no harm.
Nintendo focused on creating a new unique controller but didn't invest in power to compete with Sony and MS, why?
Because they have the same old bet: casual gamers.



KingVamp said:


> Only care about the most power and got the money for it? Get a PC.


 
I rather play on my 50' tv, and I'm not willing to put a PC on my living room



KingVamp said:


> Whatever, let's wait until e3.


 
I'm really anxious to it.
Probably there will be a lot more info about PS4 been released there.
I also believe many 3DS games will be released there, and that would be nice,
especially if they announce a NA version of DQM:TW


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## leic7 (Feb 28, 2013)

Gahars said:


> You're holding the other candidate's gender against them in the selection process; yes, that is prejudice. A more subtle form perhaps, but prejudiced nonetheless. In the end, you're discriminating based on gender, and that's wrong, mmkay?
> 
> (Pro-tip in race/gender/etc.: If it would be wrong to flip it around ("Among all equal candidates, I would only give the job to the man."), it's probably just wrong in the first place.)


I totally get that not being chosen for 'something' while I seem just as qualified to me as the one being chosen except for gender, would seem unfair at the individual level. But in this particular context, I think it's justified, because the gender ratio was so extreme and non-representative that gender itself has actually become one of the relevant factors in the delivery of a message, almost in a sense that gender has become a part of the message. Even though gender shouldn't be relevant on a local level (e.g. when picking a single candidate), it is relevant on a larger community level (e.g. when choosing a candidate lineup).

A general observation I have from these types of discussions is that a lot of people seem to think that if they just switched the 'haves' and the 'have nots' in their sentences, they could make the same case for inequality. For example, rich vs poor, black vs white, men vs women, gay vs straight, christian vs muslim, etc. etc. But equality is a concept that's based on a power (im)balance across both time and space. Suggesting we should behave _as if_ there were no power imbalance, when there clearly is one, might give the appearance of equality within a limited context in both time and space; but it won't help us to achievement the long-term overall equality, it will perpetuate the inequality.

Besides, I kinda take issue with the blanket statements about 'prejudice' and the automatic assignment of value judgement to it, I think context does matter. In a way, some sexual orientations are inherently 'prejudices' under the blanket definition, as they discriminate on the basis on sex. Does that necessarily imply that sexual orientations are wrong?


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