# Xbox 720 document leak - $299 console with Kinect 2 for 2013



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 16, 2012)

*Xbox 720*







Support for Blu-ray
Native 3D output and glasses
Concurrent apps, and additional sensor and peripheral support.
6x performance increase,
True 1080p output with full 3D support and an "always on" state for the console.
A slide on core hardware indicates that the next Xbox will be designed to be scalable in the number of CPU cores and their frequencies. Microsoft appears to have been debating whether to use six or eight ARM or x86 cores clocked at 2GHz each with 4GB of DDR4 memory alongside three PPC cores clocked at 3.2GHz each for backwards compatibility with existing Xbox 360 titles.

On a side note, that 4GB of RAM has now apparently been upgraded to *8GB*. Yes, you read that right!

Microsoft positions its Xbox 720 as the _only _box needed for living room entertainment in the document, providing background recording functionality for TV content and a unified Windows 8 foundation to make it easier for application developers to build apps that target Xbox, PC, and Windows Phone. Microsoft rounds off the document with a promised price point of $299 with its Kinect 2 hardware and a prediction of a 10 year lifecycle with more than 100 million units sold.

*Kinect 2*






Incremental improvement over the current hardware.
Higher accuracy
Stereo imaging
Improved voice recognition
Support for four player tracking
Improved RGB camera
Dedicated hardware processing.
"In Kinect v2 we can continue to go beyond controllers and offer peripherals and accessories that heighten game immersion," The Kinect accessories idea appears to be one that is not designed to replace controllers, but will allow devices to interact with the sensor. 

*Kinect Glasses (project Fortaleza)*






Roadmap for its "Fortaleza" Kinect Glasses — which appears to be a research project the company is working on. Glasses appear to be Wi-Fi- or 4G-enabled and incorporate augmented reality. Described as a "breakthrough heads up and hands-free device," Kinect Glasses is marked as a 2014 product that won't launch alongside the Xbox 720 console.






http://www.theverge....-doc-leak-rumor
http://www.scribd.co...ckpoint-Draft-1

Note that there may have been some changes to the roadmap after the document was released. Although most of what's mentioned here should be correct.


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## AlanJohn (Jun 16, 2012)

Holy fucking shit Microsoft what are you doing?
Why are you calling it the 720? Are you walking in circles or something?


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 16, 2012)

Wow. That's kind of a big leap. AR, 6x more power. Shit.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 16, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> Wow. That's kind of a big leap. AR, 6x more power. Shit.


It's not as big of a leap as people expected (10x). It's significant but smaller than PS2->PS3.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> Suprgamr232 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. That's kind of a big leap. AR, 6x more power. Shit.
> ...


Yeah that was sarcasm lol. I expected Microsoft to go all "WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS THING AMAZINGLY AMAZING GRAPHICS GAMES CALL OF DUTY HALO!"


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## Hells Malice (Jun 16, 2012)

Interesting.
Well hopefully they make a version without the PoS kinect so I don't have to pay for something i'll never use once ever.

The whole "it does everything!" is actually turning me off the console though. I want a device to play videogames, and I don't care if it does anything else...I already have devices in place set up to do everything it's going to want to try to do.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 16, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> The whole "it does everything!" is actually turning me off the console though. I want a device to play videogames, and I don't care if it does anything else...I already have devices in place set up to do everything it's going to want to try to do.


That was Microsoft's goal from the very beginning with the Xbox. They didn't want to just make a videogame console. They wanted to _own _the living-room and have the Xbox be the main and only console there.


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## Eerpow (Jun 16, 2012)

If the power rumors are true it's in about the same league as the Wii U which is said to be around 4x the 360 when it comes to raw calculations, I'm expecting next gen to be very similar to the PS2/GC/Xbox era.
Wii U being the weakest but not out of the question for multiplats.

WiiU = PS2
Xbox720 = GC
PS4 = Xbox

I'm very interested to see what Sony does next, seeing how Nintendo pushes the second screen and Microsoft continues to develop the Kinect they must have something up their sleeve in order to stand out.
Move 2.0?


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## Hells Malice (Jun 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > The whole "it does everything!" is actually turning me off the console though. I want a device to play videogames, and I don't care if it does anything else...I already have devices in place set up to do everything it's going to want to try to do.
> ...



Well until it can play WiiU/wii/gamecube/PS1-2-3-4 games, ain't gonna happen.


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## Gahars (Jun 16, 2012)

Putting this right into the IFT file.

The ball's in your court now, Microsoft.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 16, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Putting this right into the IFT file.
> 
> The ball's in your court now, Microsoft.


It is true as a matter of fact. It was asked to be taken down.


Some details may have changed since this is a doc from 2010 but it should be mostly relevant.


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## DinohScene (Jun 16, 2012)

I felt my pants move a bit~

The technology pretty much is there.
However since this is MS.....

I'm a bit skeptical yet psyched at the same time


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## KingVamp (Jun 16, 2012)

This is seriously real? All for $299? 

Well, anyway, I can't wait to see how Sony console turns out if this is true.


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 16, 2012)

In 20 years M$ won't sell video game consoles anymore, but whole M$ branded living rooms with a built-in Xbox 2880, Kinect 5 sensors all over the place, M$ furniture and one 100 inch 3D TV set. All for $299 of course.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm going to list myself as skeptical. Being asked to take something down doesn't automatically verify it as true. You may add suspicion, but jumping the gun and screaming "THEN IT MUST BE TRUE" is a little ridiculous. And yes, I saw who requested it to be taken down. Still proves absolutely nothing. You still have to _want_ it to be true.

Grain of salt, guys. Maybe an entire shaker.

Plus, $299? It sounds like they're going the bleeding edge technology route. This thing is probably going to cost around $500. 
This just feels like something slapped together by a hopeful, being preached as truth. More elaborate lies have been told.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 16, 2012)

Nathan Drake said:


> I'm going to list myself as skeptical. Being asked to take something down doesn't automatically verify it as true. You may add suspicion, but jumping the gun and screaming "THEN IT MUST BE TRUE" is a little ridiculous. And yes, I saw who requested it to be taken down. Still proves absolutely nothing. You still have to _want_ it to be true.
> 
> Grain of salt, guys. Maybe an entire shaker.
> 
> ...



1. This document is awfully long to be fake. It would have had to be one dedicated guy.
2. It was taken down by a law firm, not just any random guy.
3. It resembles other Microsoft power-points in design.
4. Username in some parts of the doc was "*nkachroo*/Documents/...". Nkachroo = Naveen Kachroo who is the director of product planning at Microsoft.

And $299 could always be changed, might just be a placeholder price. Nothing really screams bleeding-edge anyways.

The document is real.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to list myself as skeptical. Being asked to take something down doesn't automatically verify it as true. You may add suspicion, but jumping the gun and screaming "THEN IT MUST BE TRUE" is a little ridiculous. And yes, I saw who requested it to be taken down. Still proves absolutely nothing. You still have to _want_ it to be true.
> ...



1. There are many people out there who have nothing better to do. You argue it was long, I argue that there are a number of dedicated trolls.
2. Like I said, I know who took it down. There can be many, many reasons for a law firm taking it down. Saying "HERPA DERPA IT'S REAL THEN," isn't nearly enough for me.
3. Oh, and absolutely nobody could put something like that together themselves?
4. That can be faked, easily.

You can argue suspicious, but you can't argue that it's beyond a shadow of a doubt real. You absolutely can not.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 16, 2012)

Nathan Drake said:


> 1. There are many people out there who have nothing better to do. You argue it was long, I argue that there are a number of dedicated trolls.
> 2. Like I said, I know who took it down. There can be many, many reasons for a law firm taking it down. Saying "HERPA DERPA IT'S REAL THEN," isn't nearly enough for me.
> 3. Oh, and absolutely nobody could put something like that together themselves?
> 4. That can be faked, easily.
> ...



Please do tell me what other reason a law firm would have to take down a document that's not real? Especially a firm under contract with Microsoft?

Yes, some of the other things can be faked but it would take a lot of effort. The fact that most of the info here are in line with things that we already know and that there are many internal company references add to the point that it's probably real.

This is the path for some of the images in the document?


```
\nkachroo/Documents/Work/Project 10/Finished Frames for Monday/Finished Frames for Monday/Frame 07.jpg
```
Are you telling me that a troll changed his username to a relatively unknown Microsoft product director just for the sake of making a fake? That's pretty unlikely.

I say the fact that a law firm took it down means that it's real. The other things can be faked but you can't exactly convince a firm to take down a document.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > 1. There are many people out there who have nothing better to do. You argue it was long, I argue that there are a number of dedicated trolls.
> ...


How about an inaccurate representation of future plans that may prove detrimental to future sales? How about they don't want people thinking that it's real when it isn't, and simply asking a site to take it down yourself wouldn't work? I doubt Microsoft even gave the law firm much of a reason. Just "we don't want this online, make them take it down." You act like the law firm would need the documents to be real to justify their removal. The document might be real, and sure, that's one _potential_ reason. It isn't the only reason, though. You've simply convinced yourself that it is. Of course, you could just be spouting the opinion of the last couple of pages of the Neogaf thread.

Like you said, it's stuff that we know, and how would we know they were internal company references, if they were, you know, internal company references? That's either more assumptions, or those references aren't as private as you may be trying to get across.

That would be easy to fake. Them knowing a name means nothing. I know lots of names. They could have heard it any place at any time. All because *you* might not be able to easily dredge up the name with six seconds of Googling doesn't mean that it isn't out there to be found.

By the way, welcome to justice in these fine United States.


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## Rasas (Jun 17, 2012)

Well I'm hoping it is has the $299 price since I'm not looking to buy a 500+ console with so many flaws in the design. I know the above information can easily be fake and your not denying it isn't possibly true so lets just leave it at that. That it is possible true or false I mean.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 17, 2012)

i dont believe it.
the price alone makes it unreasonable.

everything else does sound interesting, but somehow not like the microsoft i know


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## Pleng (Jun 17, 2012)

$299 price point could be reached with subsadizing. Maybe $299 if you sign up to xyz broadband unlimited for 18 months. It would make sense if they really are going for the home entertainment system setup.


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## Midna (Jun 17, 2012)

It's over. Xbox is finished.


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## FireGrey (Jun 17, 2012)

Hmm, I don't really like kinect plus I'm more interested in the PS exclusives.
Plus Free online with the option to get a subscription to free games is better than a payed online service which is slightly better (Though i don't know which is going to be better so i'm just going with PS on this one).
So right now XBOX720 is out of the option for me, it looks like it's just a contest between PS4 and Wii U.
If the PS4 is significantly more powerful with a lot more to offer then I shall go with that.


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## Taleweaver (Jun 17, 2012)

soulx said:


> Some details may have changed since this is a doc from 2010 but it should be mostly relevant.


Even if this is true (which I doubt), then at least the price is pretty irrelevant. The second financial crisis surely must've caused SOME price differentiations (I can understand how they want to sell it under the manufacturing cost* but they're not going to bankrupt themselves over it).



*in the countries where this is legal, obvious


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 17, 2012)

Issue with a Kinect being part of the console means, odds are, you're gonna be stuck with plenty of games with necessary Kinect functionality. I'm hoping it's mostly optional for your stick-and-buttons games like Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim were on the Xbox 360 but that seems doubtful.

Really I'd just bite on a $300 Xbox 720 with a $400 Kinect 2 bundle that's optional.


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## wrettcaughn (Jun 17, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Issue with a Kinect being part of the console means, odds are, you're gonna be stuck with plenty of games with necessary Kinect functionality. I'm hoping it's mostly optional for your stick-and-buttons games like Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim were on the Xbox 360 but that seems doubtful.
> 
> Really I'd just bite on a $300 Xbox 720 with a $400 Kinect 2 bundle that's optional.



Curious as to why that would be "doubtful"
Sure, there will be (and are) games that require Kinect...  But it's kind of silly to assume that your "stick-and-buttons" games will require use of Kinect at any point, ever.  I'm sure MS is aware of the fact that most, if not all, "stick-and-buttons" gamers would fail to appreciate being forced to yell at their televisions or air-judo-chop every Phantom and Raider they come across.

I'd have no problem with a bundled Kinect 2, even thinking about picking up a Kinect 1.  Then again, I have a 13 month old and would rather have him karate-chopping fruit than watch another episode of Yo-Gabba-Gabba...


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## Hells Malice (Jun 17, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Issue with a Kinect being part of the console means, odds are, you're gonna be stuck with plenty of games with necessary Kinect functionality. I'm hoping it's mostly optional for your stick-and-buttons games like Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim were on the Xbox 360 but that seems doubtful.
> ...



I guess you've never used a wii before.
Damn did that thing love forcing motion controls into everything.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 17, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> I guess you've never used a wii before.
> Damn did that thing love forcing motion controls into everything.



Couldn't have said it better myself.

With the current Kinect, motion controlled games are basically "segregated". If you want to play them, you can, but it doesn't interfere with your stick-and-buttons games. You have a few crossovers like Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim but neither of them are forced or even that necessary. I've played both games without them. But the peripheral is now part of the controller, developers will just be throwing crap there. One would hope it's for basic things like voice command and navigating menus, but it never is that basic.


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## Veho (Jun 17, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But the peripheral is now part of the controller, developers will just be throwing crap there.


But they'll settle down after a while. The PS3 controller has a motion sensor, but not all games use it or force motion controls.


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## wrettcaughn (Jun 17, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Old8oy said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...



Kinect =/= Wiimote & Nunchuk

_One_ of Nintendo's mistakes that really hurt the longevity (and appeal to so-called "hardcore gamers") of the Wii was bundling the Wiimote&Nunchuk rather than an actual controller with dual analogs.  That *forced* devs to incorporate cheesy motion controls to account for the lack of functional controller design.  There are only so many different ways you can wave/shake a remote.  Sure, they released the "classic controller" but that meant players would have to go out and buy and "special" controller to utilize a more traditional control scheme and no dev could expect every gamer to do that.  Regardless, the wiimote and nunchuk were innovative.  But they should have been sold alongside the system rather than been the sole focus of it.

Kinect is hands-free.  Unless every "stick-and-buttons" game moves to rails, I doubt you have much to worry about.  There'd be no way to traverse a world unless they have you walking in place.  There'd be no way to fire a gun unless they have you point at the screen and say "BOOM" when you want to fire.  The only use for Kinect in games like ME3 or Skyrim would be what they already have it doing.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 17, 2012)

Nathan Drake said:


> How about an inaccurate representation of future plans that may prove detrimental to future sales? How about they don't want people thinking that it's real when it isn't, and simply asking a site to take it down yourself wouldn't work? I doubt Microsoft even gave the law firm much of a reason. Just "we don't want this online, make them take it down." You act like the law firm would need the documents to be real to justify their removal. The document might be real, and sure, that's one _potential_ reason. It isn't the only reason, though. You've simply convinced yourself that it is. Of course, you could just be spouting the opinion of the last couple of pages of the Neogaf thread.
> 
> Like you said, it's stuff that we know, and how would we know they were internal company references, if they were, you know, internal company references? That's either more assumptions, or those references aren't as private as you may be trying to get across.
> 
> ...


If that was the case, Microsoft could have simply issued a statement stating that the document is fake. Having a law firm hired by them to remove it will just arouse more suspicion considering this has already spread across numerous sites.

And here's what leads me to believe the document,

Hey guys.

Tom Warren here (Senior Editor at The Verge). I posted this story at The Verge yesterday. I just wanted to clear up a few things and address some points I've seen posted elsewhere etc. The Xbox 720 leak was covered by The Verge at The Verge, not Polygon at The Verge. I know the temporary home can be confusing at times, but thought it was important to point that out.

As for how we check these types of stories. I have been reporting on Microsoft for around 12 years now. That's not to say I know everything about Microsoft and its processes, but I have a fairly good idea of what is and isn't an internal doc usually after the first few pages. This document in question is from August 2010, prior to iOS 4.2 (mentioned in the PPT notes) and when certain team members (mentioned in doc notes) were still at the company in engineering roles. The document references several employees by name and uses one of Microsoft's internal "CSG_Pres" PowerPoint templates (an early example of their Metro style PowerPoint templates that are used regularly internally now).

Couple this with the fact it aligns with other information I've seen about Nextbox over the past year, it aligned perfectly. The document also references Microsoft's SmartGlass technology (announced at E3). I went through a number of other ways to verify the information was as accurate as other stories we would report on - I'm not going to outline the exact processes because I like to keep those secret 

We make every attempt to ensure this type of data is accurate. I ran a number of stories ahead of this year's E3, and they were all accurate:

Microsoft to bring full Internet Explorer browsing to Xbox 360 with Kinect controls
Exclusive: Kinect Play Fit to offer universal exercise tracking with 'Joule' heart rate monitor
Exclusive: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription
Exclusive: Microsoft to preview 'Woodstock' Xbox music service at E3

Hopefully this clears up any questions over how we vet this type of information. I don't typically report on Xbox or gaming news (its not my core knowledge) but I do enjoy reading Neogaf threads from time to time. You guys have an amazing community here so keep it up 

Thanks,
Tom
This is a post by the resident Microsoft expert over at The Verge in which he said that he did verify whether the information is accurate. I don't know about you but I'm inclined to believe him.

The name just adds to the proof that the document is from Microsoft. Sure that could be easy to fake but given what I posted above, the details that match up in the document, the name just further proves that the document is real.


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## supermario5029 (Jun 29, 2012)

Would anyone stop? The console isn't even announced and there isn't a real picture of the real thing! The PS4 too!


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 29, 2012)

supermario5029 said:


> Would anyone stop? The console isn't even announced and there isn't a real picture of the real thing! The PS4 too!


What?


This is a leaked document...


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## Rydian (Jun 29, 2012)

This is a leaked document _of their plans_.  These are guidelines mainly involving _concept art_.

This is nice info and it's interesting to see their goals and how they intend to go about using them, but this is not information about the next xbox itself, just some of the plans that have come up.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 29, 2012)

Rydian said:


> This is a leaked document _of their plans_.  These are guidelines mainly involving _concept art_.
> 
> This is nice info and it's interesting to see their goals and how they intend to go about using them, but this is not information about the next xbox itself, just some of the plans that have come up.


There is information regarding the Next Xbox itself.



soulx said:


> *Xbox 720*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously, some of that could have changed but it's still interesting info.

http://filetrip.net/...-10-f29428.html


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## Rydian (Jun 29, 2012)

Again, that's plans, not information on a concrete device.  Check the wording, it's future tense.


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