# Trump's latest speech about Antifa taking down/vandalizing statues



## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 15, 2017)

I try to steer clear from politics on GBATemp but I would just like to say this.

Trump's speech to me was far too perfect, too obvious, too fitting and scripted so with that, it's necessary to take with a grain of salt.

The Left hates Trump for saying it, the Right loves for saying it. In the end, he is a politician and everyone needs to remember that (politicians can backpedal at any moment). I'll admit that I liked what I heard Trump saying but you can't fall for it.

Take this however you will.


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## tetrabrik (Aug 15, 2017)

agreed on the "too perfect", it seems he intentionally want to inflame the Left, in order to "mobilize" his base, while at the same time telling them "I got your back". it seems calculated and 100% political move, basically saying two things at once to two different audiences. he knows the far right put him in office, so he's got to keep a good relationship. in the long run it might be too politically costly since mainstream republicans are relatively moderate on the political correctness. Or, he might get away with it, just like he's been doing so far. My bet is on the second option.


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## Viri (Aug 15, 2017)

Well, someone has to call them out, I am happy both groups are being called out.


Spoiler: heh


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 15, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I try to steer clear from politics on GBATemp but I would just like to say this.


Do you now


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## tetrabrik (Aug 15, 2017)

Viri said:


> heh



lol that headline just made my day, thank you for that. it looks straight out of The Onion. how dumb do you have to be to take the bait this easily cnn..


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Do you now



Politics and GBA Temp are a lethal combination.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 15, 2017)

tetrabrik said:


> lol that headline just made my day, thank you for that. it looks straight out of The Onion. how dumb do you have to be to take the bait this easily cnn..


What bait was being taken?...


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> What bait was being taken?...



*Clearly*, the one that's been set up, remember?


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## tetrabrik (Aug 15, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> What bait was being taken?...



I think Trump was being purposefully inflammatory towards the left in order to generate outcry. That outcry in turn turns into fuel for his base. CNN being this outraged is exactly what he wanted, IMO. No Trump supporter will read that headline and support Trump less - they will instead trust CNN less.

obv this is all conjecture on my part but he does seem to be playing both sides against each other.

(I'm no Trump nor Dem supporter btw, but I do like some political banter)


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## Viri (Aug 16, 2017)

tetrabrik said:


> lol that headline just made my day, thank you for that. it looks straight out of The Onion. how dumb do you have to be to take the bait this easily cnn..


I was thinking more like the Huffington Post. I mean last year we had shit like this every week.


Spoiler


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## the_randomizer (Aug 16, 2017)

tetrabrik said:


> I think Trump was being purposefully inflammatory towards the left in order to generate outcry. That outcry in turn turns into fuel for his base. CNN being this outraged is exactly what he wanted, IMO. no Trump supported will read that and support Trump less - they will instead trust CNN less.
> 
> obv this is all conjecture on my part but he does seem to be playing both sides against each other.
> 
> (I'm no Trump nor Dem supporter btw, but I do like some political banter)



CNN is not a source of news people should be focusing on, the same goes for any of the mainstream media, it's all about numbers, polls, what's popular, who has the loudest voice, and so on. CNN is just...so bleh. Mainstream just freaking sucks balls no matter what side of the spectrum they are.


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## Viri (Aug 16, 2017)

The 2016 election should have been the death of MSM, they weren't even trying to hide their bias anymore, it was pretty damn surreal.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2017)

Viri said:


> The 2016 election should have been the death of MSM, they weren't even trying to hide their bias anymore, it was pretty damn surreal.


Actually I'd say Trump has the Mainstream Media to thank for his election


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## DinohScene (Aug 16, 2017)

America, the only country in the world that says one thing and does the exact opposite.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2017)

tetrabrik said:


> I think Trump was being purposefully inflammatory towards the left in order to generate outcry. That outcry in turn turns into fuel for his base. CNN being this outraged is exactly what he wanted, IMO. No Trump supporter will read that headline and support Trump less - they will instead trust CNN less.
> 
> obv this is all conjecture on my part but he does seem to be playing both sides against each other.
> 
> (I'm no Trump nor Dem supporter btw, but I do like some political banter)


Fair enough, that's actually a pretty good analysis. That wouldn't put it up with the Onion, though

Along those lines, though, I'm irritated that we have a President that's essentially trolling over half the population just to keep a firm grip on his target supporters


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## the_randomizer (Aug 16, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> America, the only country in the world that says one thing and does the exact opposite.



Sometimes, it's times like these that make me want to end up defecting to Japan and live with friends over there for a while. Or foxes, I'll live with the foxes in the Fox Village.


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## DinohScene (Aug 16, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Sometimes, it's times like these that make me want to end up defecting to Japan and live with friends over there for a while. Or foxes, I'll live with the foxes in the Fox Village.



I wouldn't go to Japan.
Xenophobic arseholes.

But yeh, it's understandable, I meself also wouldn't want to live in such a country.


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## tetrabrik (Aug 16, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> CNN is not a source of news people should be focusing on, the same goes for any of the mainstream media, it's all about numbers, polls, what's popular, who has the loudest voice, and so on. CNN is just...so bleh. Mainstream just freaking sucks balls no matter what side of the spectrum they are.



100% agreed, and this latest headlines confirm that it's not a news site I'd be willing to trust for fact-reporting, they're just as biased as fox news.

on that note, it's interesting to note that their outcry is a reflection of their audience's outcry, and that probably translates into more clicks.

so yeah we have a Troll-in-chief and a clickbait-driven MSM. welcome to the 21st century lol


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## the_randomizer (Aug 16, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I wouldn't go to Japan.
> Xenophobic arseholes.
> 
> But yeh, it's understandable, I meself also wouldn't want to live in such a country.


 
I actually lived there for a while back in 2007, some of my best friends live there; it's mostly the WWII generation/old farts who are bitter


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## lordkaos (Aug 16, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I try to steer clear from politics on GBATemp but I would just like to say this.
> 
> Trump's speech to me was far too perfect, too obvious, too fitting and scripted so with that, it's necessary to take with a grain of salt.
> 
> ...


too perfect?, you think that sounded scripted?, that press conference went off the rails pretty fast.


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## Joe88 (Aug 16, 2017)

Lets burn all the history books too since someone might find it offensive







Seriously though all these groups need to be classified as domestic terrorist organizations, which includes the KKK, Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and various other offshoots of these main groups.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> Lets burn all the history books too since someone might find it offensive


And then run over anyone who would support that with a steamroller, amiright?


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## Stephano (Aug 16, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> And then run over anyone who would support that with a steamroller, amiright?


And still claim to be the victims, amiright?


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## the_randomizer (Aug 16, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> Lets burn all the history books too since someone might find it offensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I blame that George Soros bastard for BLM and AntiFA or whatever it is, may his shriveled up corpse of a body burn in hell. People like him are utterly evil and way too powerful for their own good. I'm sorry, but anyone who funds these groups are just...evil >.>


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## ShonenJump (Aug 16, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> I actually lived there for a while back in 2007, some of my best friends live there; it's mostly the WWII generation/old farts who are bitter


yep back in 2011 i went there on summer vacation. Met a old friend who lived in my country for a while. The elders always complain there. Even in cafe's talking about how coffees actually should be made :/


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## the_randomizer (Aug 16, 2017)

dsionr4 said:


> yep back in 2011 i went there on summer vacation. Met a old friend who lived in my country for a while. The elders always complain there. Even in cafe's talking about how coffees actually should be made :/



Never had much of a problem, short of two people, one in the Hiroshima Holocaust museum (don't go there), a photographer from New Zealand started bashing us, and another old fart bashing us, aside from that, never had a problem. Most of the people there are nice.


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## ShonenJump (Aug 16, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Never had much of a problem, short of two people, one in the Hiroshima Holocaust museum (don't go there), a photographer from New Zealand started bashing us, and another old fart bashing us, aside from that, never had a problem. Most of the people there are nice.


yeah it was mainly in the cafe where is was going since it was close from my apartment. But yeah decent people.

on topic: I remember a interview with trump where he said something like : I can shoot someone and people are still are gonna stand by my side or something like that. quite a weird comment


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## lordkaos (Aug 16, 2017)

There's a place for controversial historical figures, and that's in school books and museums, not in public parks, you can visit Germany and you will not see a statue of Hitler.


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## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2017)

lordkaos said:


> there's a space for historical figures, and that's in school books and museums, not in public parks.


refine your statement. That is like saying a statue of George  Washington doesn't deserve to be anywhere in America except for museums and textbooks, unless that statement is for all historical figures, then carry on.


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## kuwanger (Aug 16, 2017)

Yea.  It's just like how in Germany where they have all those Hitler statues.  Because, you know, statues are all about history and not all about praising a person and their actions.  As even keeled as I can be, Robert E Lee, if he cared about his state, should have worked towards the ending of slavery so all the people in his state could experience have freedom.  Fighting in the name of your state with the end result of victory being to enshrine slavery is horribly immoral.  As the say goes, "I was just following orders" is no defense and certainly those at the highest ranks are least capable of such a claim.

PS - I tend to believe there's too much aggrandizing of the military in general in the US.  And to arguments about "remembering history", perhaps they should put up a statue of a slave driver whipping to death a black slave with the caption "Southern Civility".  There's certainly a lot of things we do not put into statue form.  This self-selection inherently is not being done to accurately represent history.  It's about trying to put a footprint into the future of a certain mindset of what the past was, no matter how far off from the truth it is.


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## lordkaos (Aug 16, 2017)

blujay said:


> refine your statement. That is like saying a statue of George  Washington doesn't deserve to be anywhere in America except for museums and textbooks, unless that statement is for all historical figures, then carry on.


what I'm trying to say is that you act like removing a statue from a public place is the same as erasing that figure from history, there's no need to make a big fuzz about removing a statue.


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## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2017)

kuwanger said:


> horribly immoral


I'm sorry, but (even though I agree with you) you can't say this. This is *your* opinion, and people who lived in the times of slavery might have different opinions. They might actually believe in white supremacy, because it was taught to be right.

We are all born as blank slates. If we were given nothing when we were born, up until the day we were eighteen, and then released to the world, we would be confused. We wouldn't know right from wrong aside from that instinct we feel. That instinct was taught to be ignored back then.

Sorry, TL;DR: you can't say that because beliefs were different then.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



lordkaos said:


> what I'm trying to say is that you act like removing a statue from a public place is the same as erasing that figure from history, there's no need to make a big fuzz about removing a statue.


Oh ok. I wasn't trying to be offensive if you took it that way, just trying to point out where a counter argument would stem from.


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## kuwanger (Aug 16, 2017)

blujay said:


> Sorry, TL;DR: you can't say that because beliefs were different then.



Sure I can.  People are wrong about their morality from ignorance?  Yea, well, it sucks for everyone else the were horrible to because of that.  You see, that's the core point of it:  it's not merely that it's my opinion but that in fact horrible things were done to other human beings and directly or indirectly Robert E Lee supported it.  Does this mean I have an absolute knowledge of morality?  No.  Does that mean that there's one true morality?  Probably not.  Do I care that in 100 years, presuming anyone even knows who I am, they think I was an immoral monster?  Nope, I'll be dead.

Hell, most the US claimed to be Christian, and it's not a new idea that one should love thy neighbor as thyself.  No, there was a convenient economic and social reason to view one group as inferior and to twist whatever language out of one's holy text to make it fit.  This is not a thing limited to religion of course, and I honestly don't think morality stems from religion per se.  In the end, I don't think it's an opinion that the morality of others in the past are somehow sacrosanct or one cannot speak ill of the dead.  The point, after all, is not to belittle Robert E Lee but to learn why such a moral code is unacceptable and not to repeat history.


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## lordkaos (Aug 16, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> Lets burn all the history books too since someone might find it offensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you forgot this one:

also this one:

liberuls, amirite?


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## Taleweaver (Aug 16, 2017)

Anyone has a link to the original speech? I've seen the riots and criticism to Trump's late/lame reaction to that, but not the actual speech. 

Also: while I understand this matters to US citizens... Shouldn't the Korean situation be considered more important? 


TotalInsanity4 said:


> Along those lines, though, I'm irritated that we have a President that's essentially trolling over half the population just to keep a firm grip on his target supporters


Don't forget the trolling of pretty much the entire rest of the world.


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## lordkaos (Aug 16, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> Anyone has a link to the original speech? I've seen the riots and criticism to Trump's late/lame reaction to that, but not the actual speech.
> 
> Also: while I understand this matters to US citizens... Shouldn't the Korean situation be considered more important?
> 
> Don't forget the trolling of pretty much the entire rest of the world.


the vague one from Saturday:



the script from the teleprompter, monday morning:



what he really meant to say, Tuesday afternoon:


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## bobbytomorow (Aug 16, 2017)

lordkaos said:


> what he really meant to say, Tuesday afternoon:




Best president ever, still needs to hurry up on that wall though


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## hobbledehoy899 (Aug 16, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I wouldn't go to Japan.
> Xenophobic arseholes.


It is because of their xenophobia that they're not a fucking shit hole like Germany or Sweden currently are.





the_randomizer said:


> I blame that George Soros bastard for BLM and AntiFA or whatever it is, may his shriveled up corpse of a body burn in hell. People like him are utterly evil and way too powerful for their own good. I'm sorry, but anyone who funds these groups are just...evil >.>


Don't forget the Arab Spring!


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2017)

bobbytomorow said:


> Best president ever, still needs to hurry up on that wall though


How can you listen to him talk and still say "boy, this is the best leader this country has ever had!"?...


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## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2017)

Confederate material belongs in the same place NAZI materials, in museums. They should be protected as reminders of this country's past mistakes and the war we had to fight to right the wrongs of our past. There really shouldn't be Confederate material in public areas, we need to move past that stain on our history.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Aug 16, 2017)

Lilith Valentine said:


> There really shouldn't be Confederate material in public areas, we need to move past that stain on our history.


I say the same thing about QWERTY, but here we are.


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## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2017)

hobbledehoy899 said:


> I say the same thing about QWERTY, but here we are.


I'mma gonna cut ya.

I cut myself short there and forgot to add my note on Trump's speech. As per the norm, his speech was a staggering mess where he spent a good amount of time attacking the media and riding the fence so hard that I am pretty his legs are chafing.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Aug 16, 2017)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I'mma gonna cut ya.


On my political edge?





> I cut myself


Don't do it!


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## Veho (Aug 16, 2017)

hobbledehoy899 said:


> I say the same thing about QWERTY, but here we are.


QWERTY is the worst keyboard layout, except for all the others.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Aug 16, 2017)

Veho said:


> QWERTY is the worst keyboard layout, except for all the others.


Nice QWERTY supremacist we've got here!


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## Viri (Aug 17, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Actually I'd say Trump has the Mainstream Media to thank for his election


Yuh, I agree. He manipulated the media pretty damn well, and got billions in free advertisement for his campaign.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/donald-trump-birther-obama-press-conference
My personal favorite time he fucked with the media, that was some funny shit.


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## CallmeBerto (Aug 17, 2017)

I just love the fact that he pretended not to know who the "alt-right" is.

While I agreed with most of he said that part really got to me.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Aug 17, 2017)

Well, my stance on this is pretty simple. Move it to a museum, but don't vandalize it, it's history now. If you would've done this immediately after the Civil War like people did with Nazi imagery in Germany, I wouldn't have considered it vandalism, but symbolism. But the Civil War happened over 150 years ago. I think we're beyond the point of symbolism or "retribution by the victors." It's just vandalism now. Preserve it, then put it in a museum where it belongs.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 17, 2017)

Both groups are wrong, and both supremacists and Nazi groups are dead wrong. Violence begets violence, throwing incendiary devices, and running people over, destroying properties labels you as a troglodytic douche.  There, I said it, I said how I feel about these people rioting. Come on, you neanderthals, I don't care if people voice their anger, etc, but by being violent, you're part of the problem. Grow a pair and demonstrate by not being violent idiots. 

/End unpopular opinion


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## Joe88 (Aug 17, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> I just love the fact that he pretended not to know who the "alt-right" is.



Considering it was something the liberal msm made up and pushed relentlessly during the 2016 election cycle.
The first huge spike happened right after trump won the rnc nomination


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> Considering it was something the liberal msm made up and pushed relentlessly during the 2016 election cycle.
> The first huge spike happened right after trump won the rnc nomination


Yeah, I seem to recall a lot of vandalism and violence from the then-unmonikered alt-right around that time, too

But it would make too much sense if that caused the trend spike


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## CallmeBerto (Aug 17, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> Considering it was something the liberal msm made up and pushed relentlessly during the 2016 election cycle.
> The first huge spike happened right after trump won the rnc nomination




Interesting I also blame Milo for giving them legitimately .

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



HaloEliteLegend said:


> Well, my stance on this is pretty simple. Move it to a museum, but don't vandalize it, it's history now. If you would've done this immediately after the Civil War like people did with Nazi imagery in Germany, I wouldn't have considered it vandalism, but symbolism. But the Civil War happened over 150 years ago. I think we're beyond the point of symbolism or "retribution by the victors." It's just vandalism now. Preserve it, then put it in a museum where it belongs.




I can agree with this.

However I feel this may be a bit of a slippy slope.

G Washington was a  slave owner. Should his statues be moved? Some on the left want to rename Washington State for this same reason.

Also should blacks pay for this via their tax dollars considering he was a slave owner? What about Lincoln?

I'm just not sure where to draw the line.


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## Viri (Aug 17, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> Considering it was something the liberal msm made up


I thought Hillary first made the term popular in a speech? The same speech the guy yelled "Pepe" in.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Aug 17, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> I can agree with this.
> 
> However I feel this may be a bit of a slippy slope.
> 
> ...


My thinking on Confederate statues is that the confederacy actively fought to undermine the US. They were an enemy of the United States, therefore it's fine if the statues are moved to a museum. Meanwhile, George Washington was one of the founders of our nation, and a national hero who fought for us in the Revolutionary War. I draw the line at, "Is this an enemy of the US?" not "Did this person hold slaves?". When you celebrate George Washington, you're celebrating him as the founder of America, or the first president, not as a slaveholder. When you celebrate Robert E. Lee, you celebrate him as someone who fought against the US government to secede and divide our nation. The litmus test, I suppose, is this: "When this person is celebrated, _what_ are they celebrated for?" No one associates George Washington with slavery, and nobody celebrates him for being a slaveowner, so his statues and namesakes should not be removed.

As for the tax thing, we're all one American body, and I think it would be absolutely absurd to divide the allocation of tax dollars based on race. If we're going to see past race, we can't keep seeing race. You get what I mean?


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## bobbytomorow (Aug 17, 2017)

Viri said:


> I thought Hillary first made the term popular in a speech? The same speech the guy yelled "Pepe" in.



Yes that Hillary speech is definitely what popularized "alt-right" _in the mainstream_ I remember that was all the news was talking about right after that speech, like an explosion of interest


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## Joe88 (Aug 17, 2017)

Viri said:


> I thought Hillary first made the term popular in a speech? The same speech the guy yelled "Pepe" in.


The pepe thing happened a few weeks later in late aug, and then hillary made a whole anti pepe alt right page on her site around the 2nd week of sept


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## Abcdfv (Aug 17, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> I just love the fact that he pretended not to know who the "alt-right" is.
> 
> While I agreed with most of he said that part really got to me.


They used to be called the tea party movement or something like that, alt-right is new.


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Aug 17, 2017)

I think it's worth mentioning that most of Trump's CEO buddies had a call and agreed to leave his advisory councils after his remarks.


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## Joe88 (Aug 17, 2017)

A bust of abraham lincoln was just vandalized by setting it on fire
http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/

The lincoln memorial was also vandalized a few days ago with someone spray painting "fuck law" on one of the columns
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40942428


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## the_randomizer (Aug 17, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> A bust of abraham lincoln was just vandalized by setting it on fire
> http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/
> 
> The lincoln memorial was also vandalized a few days ago with someone spray painting "fuck law" on one of the columns
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40942428



That's what happens when knuckle dragging dickweeds get butthurt and offended at something they don't agree with.


Fucking douchebags, these groups are, I don't care what party they belong to, I only care that they have to try to shove their extremist views down anyone's throats; extremism in any spectrum is always bad.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> A bust of abraham lincoln was just vandalized by setting it on fire
> http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/





> A West Englewood resident interviewed Thursday speculated that the burn damage to the Lincoln bust may have been caused by fireworks set off on July 4th.
> 
> “People were out partying on the 4th of July and lighting fireworks off of it,” said Christopher Jackson, 22, who lives two blocks from the statue and saw the revelers also light newspapers on fire on top of the statue.





> The lincoln memorial was also vandalized a few days ago with someone spray painting "fuck law" on one of the columns
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40942428


That one's definitely frustrating, I don't see what would even motivate someone to deface the Lincoln Memorial like that (although, fortunately it was just the columns and not the sculpture itself)


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## Viri (Aug 17, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> G Washington was a slave owner. Should his statues be moved? Some on the left want to





Joe88 said:


> A bust of abraham lincoln was just vandalized by setting it on fire
> http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/674297/
> 
> The lincoln memorial was also vandalized a few days ago with someone spray painting "fuck law" on one of the columns
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40942428


Wow, fuck that guy! Honest Abe doesn't deserve that :/


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## Joe88 (Aug 17, 2017)

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kkkby/lets-blow-up-mount-rushmore

I wish this was just a parody article...


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## bobbytomorow (Aug 17, 2017)

The left has basically turned into isis


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Aug 17, 2017)

I'm left leaning and I don't agree with guys like these. I know that most of this nation's right leaning people are good folks, and I would never associate them with people like the Charlottesville neo Nazis. I'd prefer no one associate me with the idiots who defaced the Lincoln memorial. Let's all recognize the good in each other


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## Dr.Hacknik (Aug 17, 2017)

Not to burst anyones bubble, but I really hate that Politics has made it's way into Temp. This is a Video Game Community for gods sake. But, do as you please. 

But, my opinions are simple. I support Trump; but if you don't like that opinion, then please respect it, and I will respect yours. If you want to be a bitch, and outright lie, and go argue because my opinion(s) don't match up to your Quota; then please take some time to rethink your goals in life; and keep your opinions to yourself~ That is all. 

On the other hand though, if you want to have a civial and honest arguement about Trump or any other side, please, I am more than willing. But, please don't be a crying bitch baby about it.


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## Joe88 (Aug 17, 2017)

Seems there is a statue war now
Baltimore removed confederate statues overnight
sjw/blm/antifa decided to make a topless black pregnant woman (which seems to made of paper mache and concrete?)
they put the statue up where a general robert e lee statue stood
it was then toppled over hours later (weather this was do to the shoddy construction or was intentional or even a "false flag" is unknown)
the bottom of the statue was spray painted with the words "white power" and "ni**er"

edit: found another picture when they were putting up the statue, the same hate words above are present in the picture, so the whole thing was staged to drum up more hatred

pics in spoiler V


Spoiler




















and in other vandalized statue news, a joan of arc statue in new oreleans was vandalized today with the words "tear it down"
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/08/17/new-orleans-joan-arc-statue-vandalized-take/


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## rileysrjay (Aug 19, 2017)

So I guess we should remove George Washington and Thomas Jefferson's monuments now too since they owned slaves and rename Washington d.c.? Leave the monuments up as a reminder of the good and bad in the past, at the very least preserve them. Removing them still isn't going to change what they did, plus they serve a reminder of what is morally right and wrong.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2017)

SJWs and ANTIFA, etc and all others who are doing this are all pussies, there I said it.


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## Jonna (Aug 19, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> Also: while I understand this matters to US citizens... Shouldn't the Korean situation be considered more important?


They probably held back and cut it out when they noticed this situation and thought "eh, he's burning the country from the inside anyways."


----------



## Carnelian (Aug 19, 2017)

Leftists are evil.


----------



## Taleweaver (Aug 19, 2017)

Jonna said:


> They probably held back and cut it out when they noticed this situation and thought "eh, he's burning the country from the inside anyways."


I was thinking in the same line. Earlier US presidents didn't press with North Korea because it wasn't worth wasting rockets on.

Nowadays, Kim Jong-un might just as well be wondering if bombing the us isn't a waste of HIS rockets. 


More serious: cut it out with the conflict, guys. This is the consequence of the recent police hate incidents against black guys, and if you keep dodging a PROPER solution, you'll sow the seeds of future incidents. Assuming you don't want a second civil war, you better start solving shit.
Oh, and i would suggest not leaving it up to the president. Your country's to important for that.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 19, 2017)

I'm always happy to know that the orange cunt and all of his supporters are so triggered! Love it!



Carnelian said:


> Leftists are evil.


I'm sorry that you get triggered by the mighty left taking down your participation trophies lmao.

It's actually funny how you think the left is evil.


----------



## evandixon (Aug 19, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> It's actually funny how you think the left is evil.


While the left didn't ram a car into a crowd, they're not exactly blameless. From the moment the protesters on the right arrived, the counter protesters were there spreading hate towards the right, escalating tensions as high as they could.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> While the left didn't ram a car into a crowd, they're not exactly blameless. From the moment the protesters on the right arrived, the counter protesters were there spreading hate towards the right, escalating tensions as high as they could.


Except the filthy alt right started the violent KKK and Nazi rallies, so they get whatever coming to them. I'm a bottom leftist, but I'll beat the shit out of anyone who I see performing a Nazi salute or using racial slurs.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Aug 19, 2017)

I think people like to put everything in the same bag, put a tag on it, and forget that they were not the same to begin with.
I mean, sure there exist both "left" and "right" that is not full of extremist assholes.
But there also existed extreme right that were just a bunch of irrational assassins (think Nazi Germany), and extreme left that again were a bunch of assassins too (think Stalin).

I think right now in the USA you have the full spectrum, and if the right or the left don't want to be mixed up with the others, they should call them out.

To be honest, I think your President, being himself clearly from the right, made a terrible political mistake on not calling out the extreme right on time, failing on making it clear that the right is not the same... Or perhaps he didn't, and he actually supports the extreme right for real.

Of course the left should also call out the idiots from the extreme-left, or else it loses credibility. IMHO.

PS: But considering their positions, goals, support and chantings, I would be more afraid of what the extreme-right could lead into right now. Of course, IMHO.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 19, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I think people like to put everything in the same bag, put a tag on it, and forget that they were not the same to begin with.
> I mean, sure there exist both "left" and "right" that is not full of extremist assholes.
> But there also existed extreme right that were just a bunch of irrational assassins (think Nazi Germany), and extreme left that again were a bunch of assassins too (think Stalin).
> 
> ...


Meh, the US kinda sucks. I guess this garbage country would rather brag about a strong military than have a peaceful message for the rest of the world. 

Take the national anthem into consideration. The USA anthem is about war and violence, and the Canadian anthem is about living in piece and learning acceptance.


----------



## Carnelian (Aug 19, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> I'm always happy to know that the orange cunt and all of his supporters are so triggered! Love it!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry that you get triggered by the mighty left taking down your participation trophies lmao.
> ...



Are you sad because Killary lost?


----------



## evandixon (Aug 19, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> I'm a bottom leftist, but I'll beat the shit out of anyone who I see performing a Nazi salute or using racial slurs.


This is exactly the problem, escalating the situation until things get out of control.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was adamant about protests remaining peaceful, no matter how much hate counter protesters spread, This is precisely why his movement succeeded.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 19, 2017)

Carnelian said:


> Are you sad because Killary lost?


I'm not a *H*illary supporter you righty simpleton.

Are YOU mad you lost the civil war and your participation trophies are being taken down? Lololol



evandixon said:


> This is exactly the problem, escalating the situation until things get out of control.
> 
> Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was adamant about protests remaining peaceful, no matter how much hate counter protesters spread, This is precisely why his movement succeeded.



I'm all for peace. I hate violence. Guess that makes me a snowflake that I don't like to see people get hurt or DIE, but whatever.

If everyone remembers correctly, some white dude punched MLK Jr. in the face while he was approaching his podium. All Dr said to him was "you shall be forgiven" or something of the sorts. I'd beat the fuck outta him. I'll give him a nice Richard Spencer across the face, kek!


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 19, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> So I guess we should remove George Washington and Thomas Jefferson's monuments now too since they owned slaves and rename Washington d.c.? Leave the monuments up as a reminder of the good and bad in the past, at the very least preserve them. Removing them still isn't going to change what they did, plus they serve a reminder of what is morally right and wrong.


Holy SHIT I hate this false equivalence. It needs to stop being circulated, Because I'm tired of mindless drones parroting the exact. same. thing.

YES, the founding fathers owned slaves. This is something that is often overlooked. However, they also drafted and finalized the very foundation that our country stands on now.

The Confederate leaders, on the other hand, rebelled against our country to specifically fight alongside an establishment built on the idea that whites are superior to blacks. They are traitors to our country, and the only place they have in our history is in museums and textbooks, not monuments and memorials


----------



## Carnelian (Aug 19, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> I'm not a *H*illary supporealrter you righty simpleton.
> 
> Are YOU mad you lost the civil war and your participation trophies are being taken down? Lololol
> 
> ...



Are you offended because i'm saying what i think about leftist like you?


----------



## Chary (Aug 19, 2017)

Robert E. Lee was a general in the Civil War, yeah, and though his participation in that conflict was his most remembered achievement in life, he was also _integral_ to the Mexican-American war. Where, yknow, he worked together with Ulysses S Grant to win near impossible battles to defend our country? And after surrendering to the Union, and telling his soldiers to accept defeat peacibly, though I'm sure with much resentment, he ended up being working for a southern college, where he helped implement engineering and journalism, which had heavy impact to schooling in that area?

I'm not saying that the guy was perfect, he wanted slaves. He was on the wrong side of history. But the civil war was not the only thing he took part in, and it's not the only thing that most Southerners/Texans remember him for. Many of the other important soldiers that fought in the civil war also had many other achievements to their name. Should we have had straight-up statues to confederate-only soldiers? Maybe not. Should leftists be putting all their focus to screaming at these statues? Probably not.  There's bigger fish to fry. Like getting the heck rid of Soros/Stopping Antifa/Focusing on literally anything else.

Edit: To further add, southern pride is a big thing. My ancestors fought for the Union, and housed slaves. I have no familial blood that goes back to the south. But being born in Texas, I have a huge sense of pride to this state. Tearing down statues of anything related to Texas' freedom is a big no-no around here.


----------



## Deleted member 377734 (Aug 19, 2017)

*sigh* I don't trust politicians for a reason, and Trump is one the best examples of that. everything he says, every move he makes, is carefully planned to enhance his "tough love" and "I didn't want to be president, but someone has to" image. and your average Joe six pack, who doesn't know a thing from behind his TV or Facebook screen laps it up. hell I saw this completely ridiculous article on social media a few days ago, where a preacher claimed a man he knew made a prophecy 40 years ago that "Trump will lead America back to God" complete bullshit of course. all there was to it was a youtube video about a guy talking about it, no proof whatsoever....and the idiots in the comment section were lapping it up.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 19, 2017)

I'd also like to remind everyone that the local government of Charlottesville decided they would take this statue down ages ago


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'd also like to remind everyone that the local government of Charlottesville decided they would take this statue down ages ago



And yet, those who are opposed to the removal of Confederate statues/monuments are nothing but ass clowns about the entire thing. as usual.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Aug 19, 2017)

if anything, those statues belonged into a national hall of shame


----------



## InquisitionImplied (Aug 19, 2017)

Come on, this is a video game board. You just want some ebin upboats


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (Aug 19, 2017)

Trump is stupid.
/thread


----------



## GhostLatte (Aug 19, 2017)

Chary said:


> Robert E. Lee was a general in the Civil War, yeah, and though his participation in that conflict was his most remembered achievement in life, he was also _integral_ to the Mexican-American war. Where, yknow, he worked together with Ulysses S Grant to win near impossible battles to defend our country? And after surrendering to the Union, and telling his soldiers to accept defeat peacibly, though I'm sure with much resentment, he ended up being working for a southern college, where he helped implement engineering and journalism, which had heavy impact to schooling in that area?
> 
> I'm not saying that the guy was perfect, he wanted slaves. He was on the wrong side of history. But the civil war was not the only thing he took part in, and it's not the only thing that most Southerners/Texans remember him for. Many of the other important soldiers that fought in the civil war also had many other achievements to their name. Should we have had straight-up statues to confederate-only soldiers? Maybe not. Should leftists be putting all their focus to screaming at these statues? Probably not.  There's bigger fish to fry. Like getting the heck rid of Soros/Stopping Antifa/Focusing on literally anything else.
> 
> Edit: To further add, southern pride is a big thing. My ancestors fought for the Union, and housed slaves. I have no familial blood that goes back to the south. But being born in Texas, I have a huge sense of pride to this state. Tearing down statues of anything related to Texas' freedom is a big no-no around here.


Lee and Grant were also in the same class at West Point!


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Trump is stupid.
> /thread



Politics are all bullshit and only cause debates to never get resolved

/thread


----------



## DarthDub (Aug 19, 2017)

Democrats just want people to forget history.


----------



## Pacheko17 (Aug 19, 2017)

I dunno, Trump 2020...


wait...

AM I MEDDLING IN FOREIGN DEMOCRACIES? OH NOEZ


----------



## GhostLatte (Aug 19, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Politics are all bullshit and only cause debates to never get resolved
> 
> /thread


That's why I don't affiliate myself with any political party.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2017)

GhostLatte said:


> That's why I don't affiliate myself with any political party.



That's not a bad way to do it, that way your opinions can never be accused as being too left or right.


----------



## DarthDub (Aug 19, 2017)

GhostLatte said:


> That's why I don't affiliate myself with any political party.


You can't even vote yet!


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 19, 2017)

DarthDub said:


> Democrats just want people to forget history.


I'd argue we're the ones who actually pay attention to history the most. We just don't want the worst parts of our history being worshipped and immortalized in a grandiose fashion in the current era


----------



## Deleted member 377734 (Aug 19, 2017)

DarthDub said:


> Democrats just want people to forget history.


never trust a politician. period.


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (Aug 19, 2017)

DarthDub said:


> Democrats just want people to forget history.


Why "Democrats"?


----------



## Deleted member 377734 (Aug 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'd argue we're the ones who actually pay attention to history the most. We just don't want the worst parts of our history being worshipped and immortalized in a grandiose fashion in the current era


the winners write history, not the losers. they use the crimes and atrocities of their opponents to justify their own.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> never trust a politician. period.



"Honest politician" is an oxymoron, like "military intelligence".


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Holy SHIT I hate this false equivalence. It needs to stop being circulated, Because I'm tired of mindless drones parroting the exact. same. thing.
> 
> YES, the founding fathers owned slaves. This is something that is often overlooked. However, they also drafted and finalized the very foundation that our country stands on now.
> 
> The Confederate leaders, on the other hand, rebelled against our country to specifically fight alongside an establishment built on the idea that whites are superior to blacks. They are traitors to our country, and the only place they have in our history is in museums and textbooks, not monuments and memorials


Not going to get in a debate as @Chary pretty much summed up how I feel, but I will say this: there are much more important things we should be worried about right now like NK, immigration, healthcare, etc. Than a bunch of statues. I hope you and others on this forum can agree with that.


----------



## DarthDub (Aug 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'd argue we're the ones who actually pay attention to history the most. We just don't want the worst parts of our history being worshipped and immortalized in a grandiose fashion in the current era


Don't become a sheep. Democrats founded the KKK. George Soros is paying people to inflict chaos and confusion via Antifa and Black Lives Matter.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 19, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Not going to get in a debate as @Chary pretty much summed up how I feel, but I will say this: there are much more important things we should be worried about right now like NK, immigration, healthcare, etc. Than a bunch of statues. I hope you and others on this forum can agree with that.


I absolutely agree. Which is why I think it's stupid that "Unite the Right" protesters came from as far as Ohio to whine about how "oppressed" they are


DarthDub said:


> Don't become a sheep. Democrats founded the KKK.


http://factmyth.com/factoids/democrats-and-republicans-switched-platforms/
And even if the above WEREN'T the case, what matters TODAY is what party they support NOW


> George Soros is paying people to inflict chaos and confusion via Antifa and Black Lives Matter.


Mmmmm delicious propaganda. Do you have an unbiased source to back that one up?...


----------



## Chary (Aug 19, 2017)

I definitely don't align myself with a political party, either, though my ideals definitely lean right. I see no reason to assign myself a label of republican or democrat, when most of the candidates are corrupt anyways. Vote for the person, not the party.


----------



## GhostLatte (Aug 19, 2017)

DarthDub said:


> You can't even vote yet!


In April, I'll be able to


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 19, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I absolutely agree. Which is why I think it's stupid that "Unite the Right" protesters came from as far as Ohio to whine about how "oppressed" they are


Its not just the right that's causing issues, there's plenty of left groups also that are causing shit like this. All the "alt left" and "alt right" (I'm just gonna call them that since it's easier than making a list of twenty organizations) groups imo need to just stop this back and forth crap with the statues and the other bs about them being mistreated. I'm also tired of seeing people labeling the entire left as alt left and the entire right as alt right.


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (Aug 19, 2017)

DarthDub said:


> Don't become a sheep. Democrats founded the KKK. George Soros is paying people to inflict chaos and confusion via Antifa and Black Lives Matter.


Solution 1) This is ironic, and I'm stupid
Solution 2) You're serious, and this is the classical speech of alt-right, which consists in saying facts are bullshit, that if you're not alt-right you're a sheep believing in fake news, and then spreading crapo conspiration theories without of course any real proof, and calling everyone fake news.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Solution 1) This is ironic, and I'm stupid
> Solution 2) You're serious, and this is the classical speech of alt-right, which consists in saying facts are bullshit, that if you're not alt-right you're a sheep believing in fake news, and then spreading crapo conspiration theories without of course any real proof, and calling everyone fake news.



There's no denying George Soros is a dumbass, powerful and evil. He needs to be tried as a war criminal.


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (Aug 19, 2017)

I actually don't even know this George Soros guy


----------



## Xexyz (Aug 19, 2017)

Where's my check from George Soros?


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (Aug 19, 2017)

Ok, just looked at Wikipédia, how is the guy a war criminal? He seems to be an embezzler (like evry single millionaire in this world), but I don't see anything else...


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 19, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> I actually don't even know this George Soros guy


If you don't know who he is than no offense, but you probably shouldn't be commenting about him to other people. Go read a quick history from somewhere reliable (and not Wikipedia or somewhere where someone can change the article without scholarly sources).


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 19, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Its not just the right that's causing issues, there's plenty of left groups also that are causing shit like this. All the "alt left" and "alt right" (I'm just gonna call them that since it's easier than making a list of twenty organizations) groups imo need to just stop this back and forth crap with the statues and the other bs about them being mistreated. I'm also tired of seeing people labeling the entire left as alt left and the entire right as alt right.


Eh, the big issue on the far left is Antifa, which I agree with in principle but they absolutely need to calm down in terms of physicality

I am also aware that the entire right is not the alt-right; that's why the "alt" is there. But there's no denying that the group that met in Charlottesville was entirely comprised of members of the alt-right


----------



## Dr.Hacknik (Aug 20, 2017)

I find it that both the left and right sides are fucked up in their own ways. You just have to pick the side that is less shitty, and makes logical sense.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 20, 2017)

Xexyz said:


> Where's my check from George Soros?



Where's his check? George Soros likely shoved it up his tailpipe as a contraceptive, because that's all he's good for.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 20, 2017)

The Civil War was not about slavery! The confederate States felt that the federal government had too much power and tried to secede from the rest of the union. Well, it didn't work, and now every aspect of our lives is regulated in some way. We've lost more freedom since then, which is ironic for a war that was supposedly about freedom.

Abraham Lincoln also isn't the savior everyone makes him out to be. The original plan was to send the slaves back to Africa, but I think they only didn't because it just wouldn't have been feasible. Not to mention suspension of habeus corpus and other slights against the constitution.


----------



## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> The Civil War was not about slavery! The confederate States felt that the federal government had too much power and tried to secede from the rest of the union. Well, it didn't work, and now every aspect of our lives is regulated in some way. We've lost more freedom since then, which is ironic for a war that was supposedly about freedom.
> 
> Abraham Lincoln also isn't the savior everyone makes him out to be. The original plan was to send the slaves back to Africa, but I think they only didn't because it just wouldn't have been feasible. Not to mention suspension of habeus corpus and other slights against the constitution.


Uh well....I won't deny the founding fathers and most of the early presidents were asshole-ish but hey they were smart! And to be honest the Civil War was pretty much about slavery however many poor whites (whom did not and could not afford to own slaves)did die for the Confederacy.And if you wanna blame someone for the Civil War...don't blame Lincoln.....blame that asshole Roger B Taney. They finally removed that douche's statue from the Annapolis court ground. His opinion made the civil war inevitable.
Edit: And honestly I never understood all the hate for George Soros he's like the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson. I don't see much of a difference. Just he donates to the Democrats.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 20, 2017)

Both sides, backbiting, bickering back and forth, it makes me want to cry for this country


----------



## lordkaos (Aug 20, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> The Civil War was not about slavery! The confederate States felt that the federal government had too much power and tried to secede from the rest of the union. Well, it didn't work, and now every aspect of our lives is regulated in some way. We've lost more freedom since then, which is ironic for a war that was supposedly about freedom.
> 
> Abraham Lincoln also isn't the savior everyone makes him out to be. The original plan was to send the slaves back to Africa, but I think they only didn't because it just wouldn't have been feasible. Not to mention suspension of habeus corpus and other slights against the constitution.


read this:

https://web.archive.org/web/19980128034930/http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 20, 2017)

DarthDub said:


> Don't become a sheep. Democrats founded the KKK. George Soros is paying people to inflict chaos and confusion via Antifa and Black Lives Matter.


You're a fucking moron if you think the Democrats and Republicans today are the same as they were in the 20's and before. Do you really think Lincoln or FDR would be a Republican today?


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 20, 2017)

Let's all agree that no matter the party, there are morons on either side.

/thread


----------



## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

lordkaos said:


> read this:
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/19980128034930/http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html


Thank you so much!


> The prohibition of slavery in the Territories is the cardinal principle of this organization.


 From Georgia
Well, in all seriousness I have read this stuff before....but the biggest reason for the Civil War was due to the possible prohibition of slavery in the Southern States.... I won't deny States rights played a part in the secession however it was mostly due to the difference in opinions between the North and the South on slavery.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 20, 2017)

*grabs popcorn*
I look forward to the debate of what started the civil war: states rights or slavery? 
(Hint: it was a mix of the two)


----------



## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> You're a fucking moron if you think the Democrats and Republicans today are the same as they were in the 20's and before. Do you really think Lincoln or FDR would be a Republican today?



You mean Eisenhower right? But I totally get what you mean!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



rileysrjay said:


> *grabs popcorn*
> I look forward to the debate of what started the civil war: states rights or slavery?
> (Hint: it was a mix of the two)


We all know that! But thank you. Your comment was funny. I laughed. It's not sarcasm! Just to make sure.


----------



## lostboysteve (Aug 20, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> You're a fucking moron if you think the Democrats and Republicans today are the same as they were in the 20's and before. Do you really think Lincoln or FDR would be a Republican today?



Yes, and I'll tell you why. Back in the days of Lincoln or FDR liberalism wasn't crying about equal rights for your penis-clit. End of story. Lincoln or FDR wouldn't even know wtf was happening. It would be absolute culture shock to the severity of instant death from brain melting. 


Also, FDR was a democrat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

dpad_5678 said:


> Meh, the US kinda sucks. I guess this garbage country would rather brag about a strong military than have a peaceful message for the rest of the world.
> 
> Take the national anthem into consideration. The USA anthem is about war and violence, and the Canadian anthem is about living in piece and learning acceptance.




Then leave. Go to Canada, go wherever. Leave.





dpad_5678 said:


> I'm all for peace. I hate violence.





dpad_5678 said:


> I'll beat the shit out of anyone who I see performing a Nazi salute or using racial slurs.



Few movements in the US since WWII have been as repugnant as neo-Nazi's, but as long as they're standing in a space where they've petitioned for the right to express their right to free speech, they should be allowed to do so. They should also be filmed, and their identities as racist morons publicized far and wide. But your hypocritical willingness to use violence against that expression of speech says it all.


----------



## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

lostboysteve said:


> Yes, and I'll tell you why. Back in the days of Lincoln or FDR liberalism wasn't crying about equal rights for your penis-clit. End of story. Lincoln or FDR wouldn't even know wtf was happening. It would be absolute culture shock to the severity of instant death from brain melting.
> 
> 
> Also, FDR was a democrat.
> ...


Ummm well it seems you might not like transgender people....to be fair black people and white people mingling together would have been an extreme culture shock for most of the presidents. the miscegenation alone would have probably made most of them vomit. So lets not really use our past presidents as leaders of morality.


----------



## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

_(Lobs opinion into heavy discussion)_
Both sides were at fault here. You had triggered antifas on one side and you had violent racists on the other side. Both were toxic in this event.
With that being said.... Antifas, piss off and move to California. Racists, piss off altogether. 
Being from the south, I would like the statue to remain up. Robert E Lee was not a bad man. His biggest fault was that he fought for the wrong side. He never owned slaves and he was one of the biggest helpers when it came to reuniting the country after the war. Now while it does not excuse him fighting for the wrong side, what that statue means to me is a man seeking to reunite the two factions after a horrible war. The racists don't understand that, and the antifas don't understand that either.
The world is becoming more and more polirized, which is why we see these two groups often now. But not everyone is like them. I just hope that from these events, people will be more willing to listen to the other side instead of shutting it out. Now while i may be a
conservative, i think it is crucially important to listen to the other side and form your own opinion. I love discussion and friendly debates if some of you have may have heard from me before. Discussion is key. But for this situation..... You can't change people. People have to change themselves. You can't change a racist and you can't change an antifa... The most you can do, is use your freedom of speech and talk to them and share how you feel in a respectful way.

If they get violent though, gouge their eyes out.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> So lets not really use our past presidents as leaders of morality.



Agreed, it's pointless. I mean, if Kennedy were alive today, he'd probably choose to be a Republican. And it wouldn't have anything to do with race, civil rights movement, etc. Kennedy was as hardcore anti-Commie as any American in those days, and the Democratic party's platform of today is waaaaay heavy on the socialism. LBJ's welfare state has turned into a monster, with 52% of the country on some kind of federal benefits. JFK would probably have a stroke just hearing that. And Antifa, since that's more relevant to this discussion, is blatantly communist.


----------



## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> Agreed, it's pointless. I mean, if Kennedy were alive today, he'd probably choose to be a Republican. And it wouldn't have anything to do with race, civil rights movement, etc. Kennedy was as hardcore anti-Commie as any American in those days, and the Democratic party's platform of today is waaaaay heavy on the socialism. LBJ's welfare state has turned into a monster, with 52% of the country on some kind of federal benefits. JFK would probably have a stroke just hearing that. And Antifa, since that's more relevant to this discussion, is blatantly communist.


Is a problem though Antifa being pro-communism? I mean I might not like or even agree with something but if Neo Nazis can voice their opinions why not communists? Lets be honest though ALMOST everyone loves some form of socialism.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 20, 2017)

Who would win?

Some weird court dude







OR

The Leader of The Free World



Spoiler


----------



## lostboysteve (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Ummm well it seems you might not like transgender people....to be fair black people and white people mingling together would have been an extreme culture shock for most of the presidents. the miscegenation alone would have probably made most of them vomit. So lets not really use our past presidents as leaders of morality.



I have zero problems with transgender. I have every problem with crybabies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lostboysteve (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> _(Lobs opinion into heavy discussion)_
> Both sides were at fault here. You had triggered antifas on one side and you had violent racists on the other side. Both were toxic in this event.
> With that being said.... Antifas, piss off and move to California. Racists, piss off altogether.
> Being from the south, I would like the statue to remain up. Robert E Lee was not a bad man. His biggest fault was that he fought for the wrong side. He never owned slaves and he was one of the biggest helpers when it came to reuniting the country after the war. Now while it does not excuse him fighting for the wrong side, what that statue means to me is a man seeking to reunite the two factions after a horrible war. The racists don't understand that, and the antifas don't understand that either.
> ...





Both sides?  racist.


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

lostboysteve said:


> Both sides?  racist.



How did i miss that....................
Yes, you are right. Both sides are racist. It just escaped my mind while writing that rant. haha


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## lostboysteve (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> How did i miss that....................
> Yes, you are right. Both sides are racist. It just escaped my mind while writing that rant. haha



lol it's unreal how if you think that anyone other than the white nationalists are at fault you're a racist. 

What amazes me most is that they are painting everyone at that rally to be a hateful white nationalist. They refuse to believe that no one there was only there to try to stop the removal of a historical monument.


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

lostboysteve said:


> lol it's unreal how if you think that anyone other than the white nationalists are at fault you're a racist.
> 
> What amazes me most is that they are painting everyone at that rally to be a hateful white nationalist. They refuse to believe that no one there was only there to try to stop the removal of a historical monument.



I have gathered quite a bit of information from that incident, and i got to say, i was bamboozled.
From what i've seen, a good portion of people at that ralley were racists/kkk/ect. The flyers and signs and what not were distributed by white nationalist groups.
But that raises a question, how did your average Joe come to the idea that it was a just a friendly _southern pride _protest and how many of the people were just normal people.
If i were to take a guess. I would say about 50/50.
Then there is the antifa side...... mostly just cancer.


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## lostboysteve (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> I have gathered quite a bit of information from that incident, and i got to say, i was bamboozled.
> From what i've seen, a good portion of people at that ralley were racists/kkk/ect. The flyers and signs and what not were distributed by white nationalist groups.
> But that raises a question, how did your average Joe come to the idea that it was a just a friendly _southern pride _protest and how many of the people were just normal people.
> If i were to take a guess. I would say about 50/50.
> Then there is the antifa side...... mostly just cancer.



I have no doubt it was mostly white nationalists. Knowing people, I have no doubt that it ended up exactly how both sides wanted it to, violence.

Fox News is as guilty as the rest. Someone sent me a video of the car being struck by an object before he hit  people, trying to justify the attack. No thanks I'm not buying what they're selling on either side.


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

lostboysteve said:


> I have no doubt it was mostly white nationalists. Knowing people, I have no doubt that it ended up exactly how both sides wanted it to, violence.
> 
> Fox News is as guilty as the rest. Someone sent me a video of the car being struck by an object before he hit  people, trying to justify the attack. No thanks I'm not buying what they're selling on either side.
> 
> ...


Ya, its all a mess. The sad thing is, that this incident just polarizes people more. I honestly don't know what to do. The most i can do is talk to people and be civil and hope they are civil too.
But if they are not, then it will get messy. Part of me hopes it does as to teach a lesson. But i'm from the south, there are not to many crazy people where i live.


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## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

lostboysteve said:


> I have zero problems with transgender. I have every problem with crybabies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Curious how do you define crybabies?


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## Joe88 (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Is a problem though Antifa being pro-communism? I mean I might not like or even agree with something but if Neo Nazis can voice their opinions why not communists? Lets be honest though ALMOST everyone loves some form of socialism.


They are not looking to voice their opinions


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Curious how do you define crybabies?


People who think they are special and get offended by everything someone else says.
People don't seem to have a backbone like they used to. I get called names all the time for being "x" or liking "y"
The best thing i can do is take it like a man and move on. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life or causes bad legislation. Whats the harm? (except someones precious _feewings)
_
Or at least, thats how i think


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 20, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Both sides, backbiting, bickering back and forth, it makes me want to cry for this country


If everybody voted libertarian, it wouldn't be like this.


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## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> People who think they are special and get offended by everything someone else says.
> People don't seem to have a backbone like they used to. I get called names all the time for being "x" or liking "y"
> The best thing i can do is take it like a man and move on. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life or causes bad legislation. Whats the harm? (except someones precious _feewings)
> _
> Or at least, thats how i think


Ah, I feel the same.


Joe88 said:


> They are not looking to voice their opinions


That wasn't my point though....He was attacking them for being pro-communist.... and actually that's unfair as white nationalists also can be violent...until this event I had never even heard of antfa however I have met white nationalists.(good ol' southern Illinois)...so I can say....while I agree with neither...antifa is the better (but still dreadful)of the neither option. But I have to say I am a nonviolent person...mostly. Again i agree with neither.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Subtle Demise said:


> If everybody voted libertarian, it wouldn't be like this.


Ummm but for those of us who aren't libertarian that's not helpful advice. In fact I disagree with most libertarians on the role of the government.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> *Is a problem though Antifa being pro-communism?* I mean I might not like or even agree with something but if Neo Nazis can voice their opinions why not communists? Lets be honest though ALMOST everyone loves some form of socialism.




Well the Communist regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot killed many times over the death toll of the Third Reich. So yeah, it's a problem. I'm opposed to Fascist AND Communist influence on politics in my country. Of course, Antifa is also free and has the right to _peacefully_ protest whatever they want. They just don't. From what I've seen of the facts re: Charlottesville, the 'white-supremacist' rally, while full of people I have no use for, was not engaged in anything but peaceful demonstration against the removal of the Robt. E. Lee statue until the Antifa bunch, whose permit to assemble was for a location about a mile away(?), stormed them. The ensuing riot resulted from Antifa's interference.


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## lostboysteve (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Curious how do you define crybabies?



Depends on the mood that I'm in.

An lgbtq pride rally that includes children and is more suited for a porn set, that bothers me. Those are cry babies.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Thank you so much!
> From Georgia
> Well, in all seriousness I have read this stuff before....but the biggest reason for the Civil War was due to the possible prohibition of slavery in the Southern States.... I won't deny States rights played a part in the secession however it was mostly due to the difference in opinions between the North and the South on slavery.


I read through those articles. I don't think there should have been a war at all. The North retaliated for the secession, it was not out of some humanitarian desire to end slavery. The necessity and demand for slavery would have eventually declined as technology and agricultural science improved, it would have been eradicated by the time of the industrial revolution probably.

After that, I'm sure the confederacy would have rejoined the union or at least become a valuable ally and trading partner.


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

lostboysteve said:


> Depends on the mood that I'm in.
> 
> An lgbtq pride rally that includes children and is more suited for a porn set, that bothers me. Those are cry babies.
> 
> ...


Now, if someone is gay, i do not hate them. While i may not agree with their life decisions, i don't love that person any less.
What i hate is all this "Pride" stuff? These gay people, they are not special. I am not special. They shouldn't get a day, no one should. If someone did something FANTASTIC for the better of all mankind, then they should. But coming out? No, thats not hard. "But people will criticize me!!!" .......Its 2017.  If someone doesn't come out as gay, then they are evil cis white scum.

In short. No one is special. So they need to grow a pair (lel) and keep to themselves as many people already do.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Ummm but for those of us who aren't libertarian that's not helpful advice. In fact I disagree with most libertarians on the role of the government.


What do you think the role of government should be? Put simply, for me their role is to protect people from each other (definitely not from themselves). There's more to it than that obviously, but I think  other libertarians would disagree with me that regulation of big business is good.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Ah, I feel the same.
> 
> That wasn't my point though....He was attacking them for being pro-communist.... and actually that's unfair



No it's not, but I already explained why.




> as white nationalists also can be violent...



OK, so people can be violent. But was it accurate for the media to report that the violence in Charlottesville was, "white nationalist violence?" 

example: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thom...ce-spills-onto-the-streets-in-charlottesville

It's a one-way street according to this reporter. Antifa can prod, incite, club, thrown urine & shit bombs, use homemade flame throwers against the "Nazis", but apparently that's just good clean protesting.




> until this event I had never even heard of antfa



Then you're underinformed. Antifa goes back to 1932. As for in the US, they played a major role in the Inauguration Day riot in D.C. back in January, so you should know at least that much.


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## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> Well the Communist regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot killed many times over the death toll of the Third Reich. So yeah, it's a problem. I'm opposed to Fascist AND Communist influence on politics in my country. Of course, Antifa is also free and has the right to _peacefully_ protest whatever they want. They just don't. From what I've seen of the facts re: Charlottesville, the 'white-supremacist' rally, while full of people I have no use for, was not engaged in anything but peaceful demonstration against the removal of the Robt. E. Lee statue until the Antifa bunch, whose permit to assemble was for a location about a mile away(?), stormed them. The ensuing riot resulted from Antifa's interference.


ugh...I deleted my response...while trying to fix this mess of a post...well you are just mainly talking about how communism devolves into totalitarian dictatorship and while I'm not nor do I believe in Communism. I still think they hvae the right to whatever they believe in.


Subtle Demise said:


> I read through those articles. I don't think there should have been a war at all. The North retaliated for the secession, it was not out of some humanitarian desire to end slavery. The necessity and demand for slavery would have eventually declined as technology and agricultural science improved, it would have been eradicated by the time of the industrial revolution probably.
> 
> After that, I'm sure the confederacy would have rejoined the union or at least become a valuable ally and trading partner.



Gonna be honest I totally disagree with those opinions. There was a need for a war. Obviously it was not out of desire to end slavery! Even the Emancipation Proclamation was designed as a war tactic as it didn't impact states like Maryland as they sided with the Union.Nobody thinks so.
Yes slavery would have ended  BUT far later. And honestly I just can't imagine the South becoming drastically better like ending slavery and blacks getting equal rights at the same time. So honestly I think that's nonsense. My opinion. I'm glad Lincoln led the Union to victory.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Stephano said:


> Now, if someone is gay, i do not hate them. While i may not agree with their life decisions, i don't love that person any less.
> What i hate is all this "Pride" stuff? These gay people, they are not special. I am not special. They shouldn't get a day, no one should. If someone did something FANTASTIC for the better of all mankind, then they should. But coming out? No, thats not hard. "But people will criticize me!!!" .......Its 2017.  If someone doesn't come out as gay, then they are evil cis white scum.
> 
> In short. No one is special. So they need to grow a pair (lel) and keep to themselves as many people already do.



This totally bothers me....you don't understand at all...coming out is FUCKING hard and  especially when you grow up somewhere where they tell you everything about you is wrong. That's why we need pride to tell people you should be glad to be gay because there are still MANY people telling us our life is valueless. Well, I won't deny your opinions as I grew up with an Aunt who said the same about Protestants.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Subtle Demise said:


> What do you think the role of government should be? Put simply, for me their role is to protect people from each other (definitely not from themselves). There's more to it than that obviously, but I think  other libertarians would disagree with me that regulation of big business is good.


I do believe in regulating big business but as you see I live in Japan. I believe the government here does far too little for our economy and should be regulating it more....so that should hint I'm quite leftist.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Hanafuda said:


> No it's not, but I already explained why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First it is unfair...you should understand the difference between "Communism" as performed by countries and actual communism. Which you should know has never actually existed in this world. Unlike Capitalism Communism is not flexible...what you are referencing is a form of socialism which failed because the countries were NOT the types of countries where communism was expected to exist in... next no it wasn't fair but when did i agree to defend their actions moving on....and wow I did not know about that but I also don't care about FDR so....but when I have time I will google that later.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> ugh...I deleted my response...while trying to fix this mess of a post...well you are just mainly talking about how communism devolves into totalitarian dictatorship and while I'm not nor do I believe in Communism.* I still think they hvae the right to whatever they believe in.*



I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).


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## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).


And umm who cares. I'm not defending them. Nor do I care about Trump.


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## GhostLatte (Aug 20, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> The Civil War was not about slavery! The confederate States felt that the federal government had too much power and tried to secede from the rest of the union. Well, it didn't work, and now every aspect of our lives is regulated in some way. We've lost more freedom since then, which is ironic for a war that was supposedly about freedom.
> 
> Abraham Lincoln also isn't the savior everyone makes him out to be. The original plan was to send the slaves back to Africa, but I think they only didn't because it just wouldn't have been feasible. Not to mention suspension of habeus corpus and other slights against the constitution.


Don't forgot sectionalism!


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## CallmeBerto (Aug 20, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).



This!!

Antifa started it and this was planned. The major ordered the police to stand down when Antifa came as he wanted to break it up once the violance started.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> And umm who cares. I'm not defending them.* Nor do I care about Trump.*




His speech about this is the thread topic.


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## smile72 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> His speech about this is the thread topic.


Yes,I know that...but I'll be honest...I came here mostly to see what everyone's opinion were. That's it. When I find something interesting I reply.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> Yes slavery would have ended BUT far later. And honestly I just can't imagine the South becoming drastically better like ending slavery and blacks getting equal rights at the same time. So honestly I think that's nonsense. My opinion. I'm glad Lincoln led the Union to victory.


It took over 100 years after the Civil War for blacks to finally have civil rights. I think things would have been better without the war, as the emancipation would have been voluntary as opposed  forced, and racial tensions probably would not be as bad as they are now.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Anyway those antifa guys  look like fascists themselves


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

smile72 said:


> First it is unfair...you should understand the difference between "Communism" as performed by countries and actual communism. Which you should know has never actually existed in this world. ...




Hahaha. I almost missed this tired argument. Ok, so the Communism that has been practiced by Communist nations has not been _real _Communism. So what????  You could probably say the same about "real Nazism." .... Darn that Hitler, he fucked it all up. That wasn't _real_ Nazism. LOL what difference does it make? Hitler was a Nazi, and look at what he did. Stalin and Mao were Communists, and look at what they did.

Whatever pure theoretical form of an ideology you've got, it's NEVER going to happen in the real world. Maybe in a microcosm social experiment, but not at nation-scale. Human nature (greed, corruption, politics, lust for power) and the realities of the physical world (food, water, infrastructure needs, wars/defense, natural disasters) will always force an ideology to compromise. We don't practice pure capitalism, neither Hitler or Mussolini presided over pure fascism, and there's never been a country that follows 'real' Communism. But the track record for the countries that _adhered to_ Communism throughout the 20th century is tragically clear. Hitler and the Nazis killed millions, but Communist governments have killed tens of millions.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> I have gathered quite a bit of information from that incident, and i got to say, i was bamboozled.
> From what i've seen, a good portion of people at that ralley were racists/kkk/ect. The flyers and signs and what not were distributed by white nationalist groups.
> But that raises a question, how did your average Joe come to the idea that it was a just a friendly _southern pride _protest and how many of the people were just normal people.
> If i were to take a guess. I would say about 50/50.
> Then there is the antifa side...... mostly just cancer.


I'm sorry, but normal people protesting a statue being removed don't carry torches and chant "blood and soil" and "Jews will not replace us!"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Hanafuda said:


> I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).


The thing that's objectionable is a) the Nazis very clearly stated they were doing what they were because they feel they are backed by President Trump, who has backpedaled out of his incredibly half-assed statement of rejection into a position of what could really only be described as support, and b) he refuses to uncouple the violent Antifa members from the entirety of the counterprotesters, the majority of whom were entirely peaceful (some even offering lifesaving treatment after the car attack), or only violent as a protective measure as the situation escalated. The same could absolutely not be said about the Nazis, many of whom arrived in full makeshift riot gear


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The same could absolutely not be said about the Nazis, many of whom arrived in full makeshift riot gear




I also heard they were are armed to the teeth with AR-15's, Glock handguns, grenades and shit. Gov. McCauliffe said the State Police were outgunned.

Did anyone get shot? Was there even any gunfire? (I dunno about gunfire, but I didn't see any reports and think it would've been front page if there was.)


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> I also heard they were are armed to the teeth with AR-15's, Glock handguns, grenades and shit. Gov. McCauliffe said the State Police were outgunned.
> 
> Did anyone get shot? Was there even any gunfire? (I dunno about gunfire, but I didn't see any reports and think it would've been front page if there was.)


I have heard absolutely nothing about weaponry other than makeshift batons, but obviously if they had anything projectile-based then they thankfully weren't stupid enough to use it


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## rileysrjay (Aug 20, 2017)

I saw a Twitter post earlier today from a pastor and although I don't have the link, I remember him basically saying: "dear white nationalists: who you are following was a dark skinned Jewish man who spoke Aramaic and whose mother was Jewish too."


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm sorry, but normal people protesting a statue being removed don't carry torches and chant "blood and soil" and "Jews will not replace us!"
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I know. What did you think I meant. I'm saying not every one there was doing that. My question was about how many were not and how many thought that the event was originally a statue protest.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> I know. What did you think I meant. I'm saying not every one there was doing that. My question was about how many were not and how many thought that the event was originally a statue protest.


I'm saying that as far as I'm aware the entire "Unite the Right" crowd knew damn well who they were going in with. This event has been planned for months


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## Stephano (Aug 20, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm saying that as far as I'm aware the entire "Unite the Right" crowd knew damn well who they were going in with. This event has been planned for months


And that may be true and I'm not denying that. Take me for an example. When I first heard about this protest, I simply thought that it was exclusively about the statue. However, the more I dug, I was proven very very wrong. So, I was saying, it could have been very easy for another (who wanted to go) to get confused over what was going on.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> I know. What did you think I meant. I'm saying not every one there was doing that. My question was about how many were not and how many thought that the event was originally a statue protest.



There's even some controversy now that the guy who organized the whole event on the 'alt-right' side was a plant who's only been working as an alt-right activist since Trump got elected, but someone uncovered that a few years ago he was with Occupy Wall Street, i.e. the whole thing was a setup. My opinion on that is if you get set up and fooled on that scale, you deserve it.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2017)

Stephano said:


> And that may be true and I'm not denying that. Take me for an example. When I first heard about this protest, I simply thought that it was exclusively about the statue. However, the more I dug, I was proven very very wrong. So, I was saying, it could have been very easy for another (who wanted to go) to get confused over what was going on.


At which point a reasonable person would leave. I'm sorry, but there really aren't anyone who have the luxury of saying "I didn't understand what was going on!" on the Nazi side


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## smile72 (Aug 21, 2017)

Hanafuda said:


> Hahaha. I almost missed this tired argument. Ok, so the Communism that has been practiced by Communist nations has not been _real _Communism. So what????  You could probably say the same about "real Nazism." .... Darn that Hitler, he fucked it all up. That wasn't _real_ Nazism. LOL what difference does it make? Hitler was a Nazi, and look at what he did. Stalin and Mao were Communists, and look at what they did.
> 
> Whatever pure theoretical form of an ideology you've got, it's NEVER going to happen in the real world. Maybe in a microcosm social experiment, but not at nation-scale. Human nature (greed, corruption, politics, lust for power) and the realities of the physical world (food, water, infrastructure needs, wars/defense, natural disasters) will always force an ideology to compromise. We don't practice pure capitalism, neither Hitler or Mussolini presided over pure fascism, and there's never been a country that follows 'real' Communism. But the track record for the countries that _adhered to_ Communism throughout the 20th century is tragically clear. Hitler and the Nazis killed millions, but Communist governments have killed tens of millions.


But again you should know....there is quite a big difference between communism and capitalism as I explained...so um why are you bringing up pure capitalism? Capitalism is quite flexible so you can practice it even while implementing socialist ideas (i.e. Europe, the United States, and so on) Communism is actually NOT flexible...it's not that it wasn't real communism. Using the USSR as an example never achieved communism or even socialism. It was state CAPITALISM. So it's ok if you don't believe in communism....but please at least understand the flexibility of Capitalism and Socialism and the inflexibility of Communism.


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## smile72 (Aug 21, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> It took over 100 years after the Civil War for blacks to finally have civil rights. I think things would have been better without the war, as the emancipation would have been voluntary as opposed  forced, and racial tensions probably would not be as bad as they are now.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Anyway those antifa guys  look like fascists themselves


I honestly don't think it would have been any better as the South heavily relied on agriculture which at the time heavily relied on slavery and thanks to the Civil  War  it at least made it possible for blacks to legally migrate to the north. And i don't think much would have changed because slavery ended in 1865 it definitely wouldn't have ended anytime soon if the Confederacy was an independent country for OBVIOUS reasons. They were mostly rural...so slavery would have been a necessity to even keep their economy functioning. Also don't forget that slaves were 40% of more of the population in more than half of the Confederacy. And honestly I don't think things would have been that different especially if you look at how the North functioned during the time of slavery. There would still be discrimination hell perhaps Jim Crow like laws would have been made after slavery regardless. I think anyone who think the Confederacy was better than the Union is living in the fantasy of Gone with the Wind.


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## Joe88 (Aug 22, 2017)

A 225 year old monument dedicated christopher columbus was vandalized with a sledge hammer, seems to be antifa members who did it


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## The Catboy (Aug 22, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> A 225 year old monument dedicated christopher columbus was vandalized with a sledge hammer, seems to be antifa members who did it



To be fair, Columbus shouldn't have had a monument to begin with. He didn't discover anything, he never set foot in the States, and he was murderous psychopath that killed countless people. Quite honestly he's the one figure in "American" history that we shouldn't be upset about loosing because he didn't accomplish anything.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 22, 2017)

Lilith Valentine said:


> To be fair, Columbus shouldn't have had a monument to begin with. He didn't discover anything, he never set foot in the States, and he was murderous psychopath that killed countless people. Quite honestly he's the one figure in "American" history that we shouldn't be upset about loosing because he didn't accomplish anything.


I agree in sentiment, but there are certainly better ways to deal with that than taking a sledgehammer to it :Y


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## Viri (Aug 22, 2017)

That shit is almost as old as our country, it belonged in a museum, not smashed by a vandal.


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## Xexyz (Aug 22, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I agree in sentiment, but there are certainly better ways to deal with that than taking a sledgehammer to it :Y


I agree, it should be dealt with a bulldozer.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 22, 2017)

if they were really anti-fascist, they'd be marching on the capitol building in DC and doing the world a favor. All I see is a bunch of hipster sjw white apologists smashing statues for the fuck of it.


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## The Catboy (Aug 22, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I agree in sentiment, but there are certainly better ways to deal with that than taking a sledgehammer to it :Y


You're right, explosives are a better method.


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