# "Xbox Live's such a train wreck,"



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2010)

Source

Valve - XBOX Live is such a train wreck









			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Speaking to our colleagues at PC Gamer in its recently-published interview, Newell said one of Valve's failures over the years was to assume that Microsoft would improve Xbox Live so it could update its games regularly for free.
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> When asked if its mistake on Xbox Live was to assume Microsoft would let Valve update its games more often, Newell said:
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## Maikel Steneker (Sep 9, 2010)

It's like Newell can never say anything without exaggerating a lot. Yes, the PS3 is hard to program for, but that doesn't mean it's a disaster and Sony should just start over. Yes, Sony has a better policy when it comes to free DLC and overall "openness" (Epic can confirm that as well), but that doesn't mean Xbox Live is anything near bad.


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## Hadrian (Sep 9, 2010)

Instead of bitching about stuff just get to work on Episode 3.

Fuck sake even Duke Nukem Forever is coming out this year, get your arses in gear.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2010)

I still don't understand that 'one demo free' rule. Just another reason to get a Wii, Hii?


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## prowler (Sep 9, 2010)

what the fuck are you centering all the text for.

anyway, steam > psn > live

edit: gabe is a hypocrite and a bro.


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## DarkWay (Sep 9, 2010)

Maikel Steneker said:
			
		

> It's like Newell can never say anything without exaggerating a lot. Yes, the PS3 is hard to program for, but that doesn't mean it's a disaster and Sony should just start over. Yes, Sony has a better policy when it comes to free DLC and overall "openness" (Epic can confirm that as well), *but that doesn't mean Xbox Live is anything near bad.*



Xbox Live is crap end of discussion.
Microsoft = greedy bastards they give extremely little for free.

If the Game Developers want to release game content for free for the fans that have already bought there game(s) then they should be able to do whatever the hell they want with it, afterall it's THEIR content THEY made it not Microsoft.

The only reason Microsoft is so popular (and yet seemingly unpopular) is because they have enough money to throw around to decorate things that are utter crap with a coating of prettiness.


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## iGotTheSmores (Sep 9, 2010)

Xbox Live isn't all that bad, just Microsoft being greedy.
Whats sad is that with no updates on TF2 and the like, people still enjoy playing it on XBL.
Steam < XBL in my opinion.


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## Maikel Steneker (Sep 9, 2010)

DarkWay said:
			
		

> If the Game Developers want to release game content for free for the fans that have already bought there game(s) then they should be able to do whatever the hell they want with it, afterall it's THEIR content THEY made it not Microsoft.
> If Microsoft wants to charge anyone for using their network, they should be able to charge anyone; it's THEIR network.
> QUOTE(DarkWay @ Sep 9 2010, 06:55 PM) The only reason Microsoft is so popular (and yet seemingly unpopular) is because they have enough money to throw around to decorate things that are utter crap with a coating of prettiness.


Sounds like Apple to me


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2010)

Riighhtt..... NO Microsoft hating here, please.

Steamroll right on.


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## Reviews (Sep 9, 2010)

Obviously Xbox live is trash psn is so much damn better.


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## Forstride (Sep 9, 2010)

While I use Xbox Live more than Steam (I would use Steam more, but my computer overheats quickly when playing games), I know Microsoft does just want money (Even though companies are made to bring in money, Microsoft is just way over the top with it), no matter what it's for.

IIRC, Infinity Ward had problems patching MW2 because it was taking a long time to go through with Microsoft.  That, and IW just plain sucks.  From what I see here, developers have to pay to get patches through to anyone that has the game.  It kind of sucks, because games like MW2, which had a shitload of bugs, glitches, exploits, etc. needed updated constantly because IW had to keep putting out so many patches.  I'm sure they were struck hard cost-wise.

Also, I know there's DLC that's free on other platforms, like the L4D1 & 2 stuff being free on Steam (Kind of ironic, seeing as Valve made L4D1 & 2, and they also created Steam...You figure they would charge a lot), and it should be free on Xbox as well.  I know there's other DLC items as that cost money on Xbox Live, and are free on other platforms, but those came to my mind because this news articles revolves around Valve.


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## iGotTheSmores (Sep 9, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> While I use Xbox Live more than Steam (I would use Steam more, but my computer overheats quickly when playing games), I know Microsoft does just want money (Even though companies are made to bring in money, Microsoft is just way over the top with it), no matter what it's for.
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> IIRC, Infinity Ward had problems patching MW2 because it was taking a long time to go through with Microsoft.  That, and IW just plain sucks.  From what I see here, developers have to pay to get patches through to anyone that has the game.  It kind of sucks, because games like MW2, which had a shitload of bugs, glitches, exploits, etc. needed updated constantly because IW had to keep putting out so many patches.  I'm sure they were struck hard cost-wise.
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> Also, I know there's DLC that's free on other platforms, like the L4D1 & 2 stuff being free on Steam (Kind of ironic, seeing as Valve made L4D1 & 2, and they also created Steam...You figure they would charge a lot), and it should be free on Xbox as well.  I know there's other DLC items as that cost money on Xbox Live, and are free on other platforms, but those came to my mind because this news articles revolves around Valve.


I think if IW was able to push out patches constantly that MW2 wouldn't have been so bad.

Anyways, Valve has always been great at supporting their games. Look at CS and TF2, they are constantly patching and updating them. For free that is. I would rather play most my games on Steam because you get those updates/patches quicker, Like TF2. Its practically unplayable on the 360 because of the bugs. I also prefer PC because dedicated servers, but thats another topic.


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## MadClaw (Sep 9, 2010)

How much do you pay for a decent gaming computer, and How much do you pay for an Xbox 360. eoc. >_>

Edit: aslo no one wants Kinect, its a fucking stupid idea.


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## RupeeClock (Sep 9, 2010)

The Xbox 360 in general is a real train wreck at the moment.
They release a redesigned system that doesn't really address much, and are going to release the Kinect, a not so effective eye-toy imitation with motion sensing. Almost none of the software looks to be innovative at all, it's just one wii imitation after another mostly. Even the PS3 move is more daring and creative.
They have bad policies that restrict developers on Xbox live whilst they increase the subscription fee, and then charge out the ass for all of the necessary peripherals to maximise the live experience.
Once you've paid for all that, you end up paying for much than you would with the playstation.
Finally, the 360 is lacking in exclusives now, they're mostly fratboy FPS games now, Halo Reach and Call of Duty Black ops with earlier DLC.

I have a 360, which I enjoy now and then, but I only have it because I drank an assload of coke and cashed in the points at cokezone.co.uk. In the end, if given the choice between 360 and PS3...PS3 pretty much comes out up top now.

Edit: www.yaybuttons.com gets my point.


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## iGotTheSmores (Sep 9, 2010)

RupeeClock said:
			
		

> The Xbox 360 in general is a real train wreck at the moment.
> They release a redesigned system that doesn't really address much, and are going to release the Kinect, a not so effective eye-toy imitation with motion sensing. Almost none of the software looks to be innovative at all, it's just one wii imitation after another mostly. Even the PS3 move is more daring and creative.
> They have bad policies that restrict developers on Xbox live whilst they increase the subscription fee, and then charge out the ass for all of the necessary peripherals to maximise the live experience.
> Once you've paid for all that, you end up paying for much than you would with the playstation.
> ...


I would have to agree with you that the 360 itself is a train wreck.
Only problem I have with XBL is the updating/patching games and that they are gonna keep bumping up the price for BS features I am not going to use like Facebook, Last.fm, ans ESPN.


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## Fudge (Sep 9, 2010)

I kinda agree. I'm pissed there's no good TF2 updates.


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## Advi (Sep 9, 2010)

The PC is Valve's territory....that they don't like consoles is not even remotely surprising, lol. I certainly agree that Microsoft is going downhill with their gaming console though.
I'm pretty tempted to get a PS3 in the future, though _only_ because I'm not seeing any silver linings so far with the 360's future and am tired of paying for useless shit that I don't want. (And since Steam is coming to PS3, it might actually have some games that I want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## mehrab2603 (Sep 9, 2010)

RupeeClock said:
			
		

> The Xbox 360 in general is a real train wreck at the moment.
> They release a redesigned system that doesn't really address much, and are going to release the Kinect, a not so effective eye-toy imitation with motion sensing. Almost none of the software looks to be innovative at all, it's just one wii imitation after another mostly. Even the PS3 move is more daring and creative.
> They have bad policies that restrict developers on Xbox live whilst they increase the subscription fee, and then charge out the ass for all of the necessary peripherals to maximise the live experience.
> Once you've paid for all that, you end up paying for much than you would with the playstation.
> ...


agreed


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## Terminator02 (Sep 9, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> Also, I know there's DLC that's free on other platforms, like the L4D1 & 2 stuff being free on Steam (Kind of ironic, seeing as Valve made L4D1 & 2, and they also created Steam...You figure they would charge a lot), and it should be free on Xbox as well.  I know there's other DLC items as that cost money on Xbox Live, and are free on other platforms, but those came to my mind because this news articles revolves around Valve.It's not ironic at all, Valve has always updated their products for $0, every single bit that they add to it is free, and they can make any updates at any time they want because they own steam, and no one can interfere with their great support. As pointed out, microsoft =
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go burn in a fire
I kid


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## Sterling (Sep 9, 2010)

The only thing I am really looking forward to for the 360 is Gears 3, and if 2 Worlds II is an exclusive, then that too.


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## Joe88 (Sep 9, 2010)

Sterl500 said:
			
		

> 2 Worlds II is an exclusive, then that too.


2 worlds was the poor man's oblivion


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## Splych (Sep 9, 2010)

MadClaw said:
			
		

> How much do you pay for a decent gaming computer, and How much do you pay for an Xbox 360. eoc. >_>


depends on what your standards are for the computer . 
but umm... the Xbox 360 is priced at $300 . 

you could probably get some used P4 computer then throw in an old gfx card for $50. overall, you'd be paying slightly more than a Xbox 360 but have a more versatile system ;P 

at times i regret getting an Xbox , 
but i got it to communicate with friends .
it's a way to have fun and talk to people at the same time . 
i chose not to get PS3 cause the people i knew who had it were pretty ...
try hard .


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## Terminator02 (Sep 9, 2010)

my post was flamey?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





i was just saying how valve gave free updates and microsoft wants money, just like every other post... w/e i'll just leave this thread now

oh, but before I do:


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## Advi (Sep 9, 2010)

Terminator02 said:
			
		

> my post was flamey?
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You told me to go die in a fire because I said the PS3 doesn't have any games I want. Not that I'm mad or anything, because I'm told that at least twice on every forum.
Nah. But no hard feelings, lol


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## Cablephish (Sep 9, 2010)

Maybe they'll port a gigantic update for TF2 for PS3 when Steamworks for PS3 comes out?

That's just wishful thinking though. Oh well.

It'll be better for future Steam games on PS3. Can't wait.


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## Guild McCommunist (Sep 9, 2010)

Cablephish said:
			
		

> Maybe they'll port a gigantic update for TF2 for PS3 when Steamworks for PS3 comes out?
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> That's just wishful thinking though. Oh well.
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> It'll be better for future Steam games on PS3. Can't wait.



Lolno. Valve doesn't give a shit about TF2 on consoles. It's a PC game at it's heart. Nothing wrong with that but it's just obvious.

Ugh, Valve likes doubling back on their statements. One minute they're all "Go Microsoft! Go Xbox!" and next thing they're like "Boo Microsoft! Boo Xbox! I LOVE SONY!"

Valve, just stick to making good games and not from dumb comments.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 10, 2010)

DarkWay said:
			
		

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finally someone who i can agree with in here


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## Shakraka (Sep 10, 2010)

.


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## iGotTheSmores (Sep 10, 2010)

Valve will probably keep TF2 updated for the PC, I think they have given up on patching the console versions. It would take much work to increment those patches now. I am hoping some good to come out of Steamworks, but you never know. PS3 is nice with its free online service (Even though its PS+ business model is BS), I'm hoping that Sony beefs up its online services, like party chat type stuff when they release the avatar dealy later on. I am just fed up on pay for live, and not playing it as much as I would play TF2 or CS:S on Steam. I can definitely tell you, I've poured 150 bucks or more into XBL, and got maybe 60-70 dollars of time/enjoyment out of it. I rather just play it offline for the exclusives and leave my online play with Steam, PSN, and my Wii.


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## Cablephish (Sep 10, 2010)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

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No, they're just stating that Xbox Live isn't as open as the PSN, they aren't taking sides for or against any consoles. 

It's just a damn shame that Xbox Live isn't as accommodating is all.


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## Forstride (Sep 10, 2010)

I love how video game company topics get more flaming done in them than religion-related topics.

If you like Steam so much, go play some of those awesome, radical indie games on it, or maybe TF2 that's so great!

If you like Xbox Live so much, go play an FPS game with your friends, or maybe go on Facebook from your Xbox, which is obviously so cool!.

If you like PSN so much, go play LittleBigPlanet or whatever it is you PS3 owners play (I don't have one, so I can't really judge), and watch some Blu-Ray movies or whatever.

I'm not a fanboy, as I have a 360 and a lot of games, including all the FPS games everyone plays, like Halo 3, MW2, etc..  I also have a few Steam games, like Portal, L4D1 and 2, so I'm not hating there either.  I can't judge PSN, because like I said, I don't have a PS3.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 10, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> maybe go on Facebook from your Xbox, which is obviously so cool!.
> hey guess what you can do that on the pc and SHOCK it's FREE!
> QUOTE(TDWP FTW @ Sep 10 2010, 04:25 PM) as I have a 360 and a lot of games, including all the FPS games everyone plays


you mean the ONLY type of game that's on the 360 to play? plus you have pay to play the multiplayer mode on a disc you you already bought and that's if the fucking useless thing doesn't rrod on you while your playing. And as valve have said there's little or no updates or FREE DLC.


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## Forstride (Sep 10, 2010)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

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I was being sarcastic about the Facebook thing.  I know it's stupid, which is why I don't use it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




It seems that even though I wasn't being fanboyish about anything, someone like you, who obviously is a fanboy, has to put in their 2 cents about why XBL just blows.  I agree that having to pay for online is stupid, but when you have stuff like cross-game voice chat (HURR DURR PS3 IS GETTING IT SOON!  Yeah, wasn't that supposed to happen at launch?), indie games (There are a lot of great ones out there), and great XBLA games as well (Castle Crashers, Monday Night Combat, etc.), it's worth it.


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## Sterling (Sep 10, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> I was being sarcastic about the Facebook thing.  I know it's stupid, which is why I don't use it.
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The only thing I hate is the price hike coming soon. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying. After all, this money eventually improves the console... right?


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 10, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> I agree that having to pay for online is stupid, but when you have stuff like cross-game voice chat


Games for Windows – Live has that and it's FREE


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## Sterling (Sep 10, 2010)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

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Can you hook your Computer up to a 50 inch flat screen (with out of the box hook ups) and still play with the same precision of a keyboard and mouse set up. There are some things that computers just can't imitate properly. For everything else, there are consoles.


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## Forstride (Sep 10, 2010)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

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No, that's private chat.  You can do private chat on XBL for free too.

Sure, it's technically cross-game, but party chat is, oh, I don't know, a lot better.  Why is that you may ask?  Because you can talk to more than ONE PERSON.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 10, 2010)

Sterl500 said:
			
		

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yes i can vid card has a hdmi input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and i hope your not trying to say a shitty analog stick is more responsive than a mouse and KB??! ZOMG LMFAO!!!!

i've tried to explain/educate you on how stupid it is to pay to use all the crap on XBL when it really is FREE on the pc but thread is full of idiots have fun wasting $60 paying for 2 internet connections 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## Forstride (Sep 10, 2010)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

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Have fun wasting $200+ 500+ upgrading your computer every so often! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Clearly you'd rather spend $500 on a video card than just buying a damn console for less than $200 and playing on there.  I also love how anti-Microsoft gamers like you just say it's $60.  1) You can pay either monthly, for 3 months, or of course, a whole year + 1 free month.  I've never bought a year subscription, and I probably never will.  I just renew for 3 months when my subscription is up.


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## Sterling (Sep 10, 2010)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

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For the record $60 a year does not equal a an equivalently priced internet connection... which is always re billed per month. In the long run $60 a year is cheaper than the 3 month plan. Unless of course you get rid of consoles easily, then temporary plans are the way to go.


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## Sterling (Sep 10, 2010)

Fuck, thought I was editing previous post... :/


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## Phoenix Goddess (Sep 10, 2010)

Sterl500 said:
			
		

> How far do you end up from said flat screen? I highly doubt you can connect your tv to the computer and be at a comfortable distance to play with a mouse and keyboard. Even if they are wireless, you have to have a hard surface to place and play efficiently. If you are forced to use a controller, I think you would be better off buying a console that is a dedicated platform with everything installed and ready to go out of the box.




Actually, you don't need a hard surface. I'm on my bed with my keyboard and mouse right now.
As long as the bed doesn't cave in, it's fine.

A PS3 comes with wi-fi, I can play my ps3 from the other side of the room with the internet connection elsewhere.
But with my 360, I have to have my internet connection or my laptop close and handy for the damn ethernet cable.
Thankfully, I plan on getting a slim to fix that issue v_v

One of the most annoying things about Live is paying for it. I don't mind spending money, but I agree with TDWP, I only pay for every three months(And that's when I buy a good game) or so, because I don't need a year, I don't play my 360 that much. So why should I pay to play online when I can play for free?


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Sep 10, 2010)

I hate how profit driven MS is. They could probably generate a hell lot more sales and thus, more profit if they release more free DLC


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## Sterling (Sep 10, 2010)

phoenixgoddess27 said:
			
		

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My point was: can you still play an efficient game of CS or another precision game on anything other than a stable hard surface. My mouse would always get stuck or unresponsive on my bed. The fact that it is an optical mouse makes not difference.

Quick EDIT: There are adapters for wireless. They are even sold on DX for a lot cheaper than in stores. There is one that is quite a bit more expensive, but for the average gamer who uses the console to play games online, then it is more than sufficient.


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## iGotTheSmores (Sep 10, 2010)

@ Sterl500 - Most newer graphics cards come with an HDMI out, or an mini-HDMI to HDMI out. Most your newer LCD also have a VGA/DVI input. So there for you can hook it up to what ever the hell you wanted to. Say an DLP/LCD Projector. (Which you'll find a great deal of PC gamers do.)

You can sit as far as an Wirless/BT M/K will let you, and the distance is what ever is comfortable to the player. I have sat 5 feet from the screen and playing TF2 with no problems (that is with on a 52'' bravia). You can simple have a stand to sit with that will hold the M/K.

I've played many games of CS on a none stable surface. Such as a bed, even shag carpet. No unresponsive-ness/Sticky reticule.

@ TDWP FTW - Thumbstick press act as a button huh? Well so can a single keystroke on a key board.
PC Gamers have mocked Console gamers for years. The M/K will always be superior of the standard controller.
Paying 500$ for a new video card? Pshh, if you are a smart shopper not. I paid around 300$ for my GTX 470, which is plenty of power. You don't have to replace your graphics card ever 6-8months anymore. Cards are able to be OC'd almost 2:1 the card is factory clocked. Even then they will SLI or Crossfire to cheaper cards.
You may pay 200$ for your xbox, for inferior hardware and no dedicated servers. No modding even close to PC Games. I think I go with the PC.

@ ZAFDeltaForce - MS is nothing but profit driven. All in all, even with flashing drives (Jtags excluded) They are still making a hugh profit. When a ban wave hits, what do a good bit of that percentage do, go out and buy another console. I wouldn't say at all that hey aren't still making a large profit with that amount of Piracy going on.


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## Guild McCommunist (Sep 10, 2010)

PCs cost a fair chunk, Xbox's are decent substitutes to one if you don't want to spend the money on a good gaming computer. They also have other pros like XBLA games and some decent enough non-PC games.

Xbox Live is a rip-off and I realize that Microsoft are essentially stealing my cash, but I pay for it since I like to hang with my friends online (and they all have Xbox's) and as a service it's actually pretty good, just not worth the $60 you pay per year (it's $60 per year soon). I just have disposable income (it's not like I have a house or car or have to pay any bills, all my money is open range) so I decide to waste a bit of it on Xbox Live. That's my decision.

The only reason Valve is saying it's a "train wreck" is because they've probably gotten some deal with Sony to show favoritism to Sony. That's all it is.

tl;dr: Stop trolling, if you have a gaming computer good for you, for those of us who don't then a Xbox is good. My friend even has a gaming computer and a Xbox and likes 'em both. And he's quite the PC gamer.


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## mehrab2603 (Sep 10, 2010)

you think sony would make a deal with the company that called PS3 a waste?


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## iGotTheSmores (Sep 10, 2010)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> PCs cost a fair chunk, Xbox's are decent substitutes to one if you don't want to spend the money on a good gaming computer. They also have other pros like XBLA games and some decent enough non-PC games.
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I'm not trying to "troll" in anyway, was stating my opinion and correct statements made. 
I agree that XBL is a great service, but it isn't worth 60$ a year, specially for the "Features" they added are BS things I can access from a PC for free. Reason I stopped paying for live, as when you have bills its not wonderful to shell out more of what small amount of disposable income you have for the same old same old with a little sparkly icing on top. I just prefer the online gaming on a PC, I do enjoy my Wii, PS3, and 360 equally.

I rather believe they are showing favoritism of Sony, because its openness as a platform to distribute their software and patches/updates.
** On a side note I am cranky that Ep. 3 has been on the back burner forever.


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## MeritsAlone (Sep 10, 2010)

mehrab2603 said:
			
		

> you think sony would make a deal with the company that called PS3 a waste?



They just did... Besides what would you pick for your gamers to enjoy, a 60 dollars per year subscription or a totally free non costing (better graphics...) network?


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## Sterling (Sep 10, 2010)

iGotTheSmores said:
			
		

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Only a few exclusives on the PS3 go online, and they aren't enough to warrant a PS3 purchase for me. The ones that do go online are usually the cross platform games that you would expect to be better on the PS3, but still look better on the 360.


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## PrinceNOOB (Sep 10, 2010)

MeritsAlone said:
			
		

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I can't agree more I barely play xbl compared to my ps3.


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## Deleted User (Sep 10, 2010)

This would be great in my debates - is Live a train wreck.


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## DSGamer64 (Sep 10, 2010)

DarkWay said:
			
		

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Yup, Live sucks balls for a lot of reasons. Good service but there is no way in hell I am paying 60 dollars a year to talk and play games with my friends who live 10 minutes down the road, I got Skype, AIM and MSN if I want to communicate with someone for free, it's like paying to use a dating site but you can do everything but message people for free. That plus they need to get rid of the points system, it's a fucking joke and insulting to customers.


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## SPH73 (Sep 10, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> *In particular It's a huge turnaround for Newell, a man who once called PS3 "a waste of everybody's time" *- something for which he later apologised for to owners of the console.



Pro-Tip: He still feels that way, as do most developers working on PS3 this gen.  Sony systems have always been difficult to program, and now with the bluray format PS3 dev costs are much higher than they are on every other console and PC. So Gabe, hasn't changed his opinion, he's just not sharing that opinion with the general public. (Putting on his best PR face.) But trust me, most devs, and especially Gabe, still share a major disdain for the PS3.

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## antwill (Sep 11, 2010)

Gabe should stop complaining about shit and get off his fat ass and get to work on ep 3 already.


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## FireGrey (Sep 11, 2010)




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## kirby145 (Sep 11, 2010)

The statement is simply not true. DICE/EA have pushed several game content updates for free (I believe they are on multiplayer update 3 now). These updates are mandatory to play online and are each about 100-300 mb.

They have no idea what's going on.


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## antwill (Sep 11, 2010)

kirby145 said:
			
		

> The statement is simply not true. DICE/EA have pushed several game content updates for free (I believe they are on multiplayer update 3 now). These updates are mandatory to play online and are each about 100-300 mb.
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> They have no idea what's going on.


Shhh you're ruining valve's trolling and their mindless fanboys agreeing with whatever they say.


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## FireGrey (Sep 11, 2010)

Well anyway, that crosses XBOX off my list.
My list:

3DS
PC
TV
PS3


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## Rydian (Sep 11, 2010)

kirby145 said:
			
		

> The statement is simply not true. DICE/EA have pushed several game content updates for free (I believe they are on multiplayer update 3 now). These updates are mandatory to play online and are each about 100-300 mb.
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> They have no idea what's going on.GO GO GADGET FIRST POST READING SKILLS!
> 
> QUOTEwith developers allowed *as little as* one free title update *(though there are exceptions)* and *limitations* on the amount of free game content they can release.


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## Blue-K (Sep 11, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> XBOX Live Microsoft is such a train wreck.


Fixed  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

I also blame XBox Live for never getting any of the custom maps from L4D/L4D2 for the box, like Valve promised us (though, Valve is probably also a reason).


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## Maz7006 (Sep 11, 2010)

XBL has always been issues with since i had it 

for the Gold membership, i could only benfit from the online play, and it was the only thing i was interested in; that to me was the first issue i had

Second i could never get my head around the MS point issue, i dnt see why we can't just use real money and see the exact price from the marketplace. 

The market place again in itself is an issue, i really just dnt like the way how it maintained/grouped everything etc. 

the PS3 has its fair share of "issues" with me, but many of which that XBL had have gone with PSN (for me that is). Free, simple, game sharing, easy to see price and it just really does the job.


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## Deleted User (Sep 11, 2010)

Where can I get a Wii for Free?


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## antwill (Sep 11, 2010)

jet™ said:
			
		

> Where can I get a Wii for Free?


From the garbage dump.


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## Guild McCommunist (Sep 11, 2010)

Maz7006 said:
			
		

> XBL has always been issues with since i had it
> 
> for the Gold membership, i could only benfit from the online play, and it was the only thing i was interested in; that to me was the first issue i had
> 
> ...



So you say basically that it's Valve's fault in the end but you want to blame Microsoft? Wow, real smart. Since when has any console that's NOT the PC got custom maps or mods that wasn't an inbuilt feature? If you want mods you play the PC. I bought the Orange Box for my Xbox more so for single player games, TF2 is a throw away on it.


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## Terminator02 (Sep 11, 2010)

antwill said:
			
		

> jet™ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PSN does straight up cash, there are no taxes when you buy anything online.
with psn, a $10 gift card = you get $10 money in your "wallet"

I've read somewhere that Microsoft does their stupid points thing to keep the points consistent across different currencies, but it's just stupid that you have to convert your real money into some made up point system


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## Advi (Sep 11, 2010)

Blue-K said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're not a train wreck.....just sickeningly greedy, lol. A train wreck implies that this is in any way ruining them.
But I do agree on the custom maps, that's some bullsh*t right there. If Valve wants to release their content for free then there is absolutely no logical reason to give people a reason to use a different console by making them charge for it....problem is that people are idiots who will pay for it.
I've heard comments from a lot of people who say that they _only_ bought a PS3 because it was free online.


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