# Ngmoco: NGP "dead on arrival"; 3DS "gimmicky"



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 2, 2011)

Mobile game publisher ngmoco has slammed Sony's Next Generation Portable and Nintendo's 3DS.

The NGP – Sony's PlayStation Portable successor – is "dead on arrival", and the Nintendo 3DS's 3D visuals are "gimmicky", said outspoken CEO Neil Young.

"I think they are hurt; I think they're clearly hurt," Young told IndustryGamers.

"I think PSP is done and the new [NGP] is dead on arrival. It's really difficult to compete with an app store that has hundreds of thousands of applications and a wide range of options where the average price paid is around $1.20 and there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of free applications that are really high quality.

"So I just don't think Sony's going to be able to compete with that."

Experts believe the NGP may struggle in the face of the mobile phone gaming phenomenon.

Sony has pointed towards the NGP's beefy horsepower and PlayStation 3-like visuals as its most eye-catching qualities.

"It's not a PS3 quality experience," Young insisted. "And in terms of getting broad adoption, having great processing power is not necessarily a prerequisite for great adoption in the marketplace.

"You need a range of things and what I think the iPod touch and iPhone have been able to do is offer people Swiss army knife-type functionality for a device that plays games really well.

"It's not like it's crap at playing games – it's pretty good at playing games and it can do a whole bunch of other things as well."

The Rolando publisher was kinder to the Nintendo 3DS, however.

"I think Nintendo will likely be competitive," Young said. "My personal opinion is that the 3D piece of the puzzle is kind of gimmicky. But Nintendo has great franchises and there are tens of millions of people who want to participate in those franchises, so that always helps.

"But the real question is the degree to which there's a third-party community." 
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Source

Harsh words from the publisher of such famous titles as "Touch Pets: Dogs/Cats" or "We City/Doodle/Farm/Rule".


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## GameWinner (Mar 2, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Harsh words from the publisher of such famous titles as "Touch Pets: Dogs/Cats" or "We City/Doodle/Farm/Rule".


I lol'd


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## Stevetry (Mar 2, 2011)

i understand the NGp been crap but the 3ds cmon Ngmoco


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 2, 2011)

This thread is trollbait.


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## Discord (Mar 2, 2011)

Gamers do, and all will, appreciated buttons and depth when it comes to games. The cheap flash-level games we get on smartphones will take a very long time to reach the same level of maturity that Sony/Nintendo handhelds currently have.

Even if the gaming every does reach a significant point, the hardware, and the lack of buttons, will always be something that holds it back. The lack of tactile feel to playing something on a touch screen, and touch screen alone isn't as comfortable.

My opinion, at least.

The PSP is still extremely popular in Japan, and even outsells the 360 on occasion in Japan, I wouldn't count the NGP out just yet.


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## Tonitonichopchop (Mar 2, 2011)

Anyone who thinks that the future of handheld video games is with $2.00 cell phone games deserves to be offed.

This guy is a moron.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 2, 2011)

Stevetry said:
			
		

> i understand the NGp been crap but the 3ds cmon Ngmoco
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> "been" being used in your feelings on a device that hasn't been released yet. Okay.
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And I actually just realized that both of those examples are essentially rip offs of Nintendo titles like Nintendogs and anything with "Wii" in it. Ever since Wii Sports companies have been ripping the name idea with "We" instead of "Wii".

So the guy's criticizing the company that he rips his game ideas from. Kudos!


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## machomuu (Mar 2, 2011)

Cut the sarcasm Guild, I love Touch Pets to death.


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## Wintrale (Mar 2, 2011)

Someone is clearly butthurt that they aren't allowed to apply for dev kits because they can't get past quality control.


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## justin05 (Mar 2, 2011)

Hater. Clearly he likes cheap cellphone games. Snake, perhaps?


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## KingAsix (Mar 2, 2011)

Tonitonichopchop said:
			
		

> Anyone who thinks that the future of handheld video games is with $2.00 cell phone games deserves to be offed.
> 
> This guy is a moron.



Took the words right outta my mouth.....Im not going write all of what I want to say cause I kinda said it yesterday in another thread.


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## Ikki (Mar 2, 2011)

That was one nice piece of entertainment.


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## giratina16 (Mar 2, 2011)

What a vagina.

EDIT: Touch Pets: Dogs/Cats? That's a disgusting name for a game.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't like to be troll'd, but come on, this guy clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

First of all, the DS sold over 100 million units, and he says there are only tens of millions of people who want to play the 3DS games? And then the dead on arrival for the NGP? Last I checked, PSP sold around 65 million units, that's a great number.

This guy's a moron.


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## Wintrale (Mar 2, 2011)

justin05 said:
			
		

> Hater. Clearly he likes cheap cellphone games. Snake, perhaps?



Snake has more playability than the rubbish that company releases...


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## Deleted User (Mar 2, 2011)

What does the iPod touch have in terms of functionality for gaming that the NGP doesn't?


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## 1234turtles (Mar 3, 2011)

no one listen to this crap its just trying  to up cellphone sales by trolling on nintendo and sony


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## Issac (Mar 3, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

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To me it's obvious he's meaning "being"... Even though I don't aggree with his oppinion (since I haven't tested it myself).
But I am a bit tired of you very often bashing on non-English speaking people's "poor" English.
You're American, You speak fluent English, good for you. We got that now, please comment in a different tone if you have to point out linguistic errors.

On topic: Ngmoco sure has a point with the NGP and Smartphone app references... I mean, many of the coming apps to NGP will surely be priced fairly high just as the PSN games today (With exeption of the minis)... while iDevice apps of the same quality often are prices a lot lower. 
Space invaders infinity gene, for example. iDevice: $4.99, PS3: $9.99

However, that's about the only thing I agree with... that the prices probably will be a bit meh. (What I believe, I'd love to be proven wrong).


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## dinofan01 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hey if I was working on a platform, I would want to claim its "superiority" too. Hes just making himself feel better by telling himself he made a good choice going mobile only. Who cares.


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## JoyConG (Mar 3, 2011)

Big words from such shitty games. iOS is certainly a growing platform- but over these years one thing has become clear: Quality releases are pretty scarce. Then you get your endless wave of mediocrity. ..I have and love my iPhone 4, but I'm very aware of all the crap on the market

He is right about the 3rd party on ninty, but they seem to be correcting that


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 3, 2011)

Issac said:
			
		

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Just pointing out Stevetry's mistake because he's been typing with his forehead ever since he joined here and his lack of common sense can be... irritating.

For same priced apps I can see your point, but I'd rather pay $10 for a good NGP app than a fifth as much for a shitty iPhone app. Quality over quantity, honestly. Plus for Space Invaders, would you rather have a full set of buttons or a touch screen? Buttons are usually better. I'd pay the extra $5 for it myself.


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

3DS and NGP can do everything that a iphone(expect make calls/ipod) can do and better...


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## Issac (Mar 3, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Just pointing out Stevetry's mistake because he's been typing with his forehead ever since he joined here and his lack of common sense can be... irritating.
> 
> For same priced apps I can see your point, but I'd rather pay $10 for a good NGP app than a fifth as much for a shitty iPhone app. Quality over quantity, honestly. Plus for Space Invaders, would you rather have a full set of buttons or a touch screen? Buttons are usually better. I'd pay the extra $5 for it myself.



Oh yeah, I too think Quality over quantity of course... But sometimes pricing can be ridicolous. And I also prefer buttons most of the time, except this Space Invaders game actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the touch control you can dodge incoming bullets more easily than with the set speed of the controller version. (As in, you have way better speed!) Though your fingers / hand block the screen a lot as well.. 

Oh well!


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## CarbonX13 (Mar 3, 2011)

The last sentence killed off any relevance of his rant.


			
				flameiguana said:
			
		

> What does the iPod touch have in terms of functionality for gaming that the NGP doesn't?


In terms of functionality for gaming... nothing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only reason I see the iPod Touch as useful is because it is a platform that can help make life easier in ways that a gaming platform cannot, such as with convenient applications for socialization and education, on top of the multimedia platform it is based upon.


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## Slyakin (Mar 3, 2011)

I haven't even heard of ngmoco. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I wonder what they would say if they started to develop for the 3DS eShop or the PSP2's/PS3's PSN? "Oh, the 3DS eShop / PSN is the best digital marketplace ever! Who wants to spend 300~ bucks for a dinky MP3 player?"


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## Joe88 (Mar 3, 2011)

and yet they felt the need to sort of rip off loco roco


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

He's right, though.


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## _Chaz_ (Mar 3, 2011)

I hate it when people make phones out to be game systems.
I hate it more when people think that the game apps can compete and beat games on devices made for gaming from companies specializing in gaming.

When both the NGP and 3DS fail to fail, he will be eating his words and wondering why a rip-off of Tetris didn't do as well as Super Mario 3DS.


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## Slyakin (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> He's right, though.


Do you mind elaborating? I'm not trying to be rude, but some insight would be nice.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 3, 2011)

Sorry mister, what you've said is stupid.  Furthermore, I've never even heard of you.  Oh?  Shitty day-in-the-making-of iPhone apps and games?  Of course.  Come back when you can make games on your own.  That "casuals" won't lap up because of their idiocy.


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## Windaga (Mar 3, 2011)

Erm....who...cares? We've heard both positives and negatives about both systems from developers, and the positive comments far out weigh the negative ones. Even if they didn't, though, it's still something that we should be judging for ourselves.


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## Nah3DS (Mar 3, 2011)

what a shitload of fuck


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

Slyakin said:
			
		

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Nah, not rude at all, thanks for the politeness actually!


Well, regarding the 3DS, as awesome as the 3D might be, it really is gimmicky on a fundamental level; it is known to cause eye strain, it drains the batteries, and it can be turned off, meaning every game will have to be playable without it. The system itself will be great, sell a lot, and have a lot of great games, and he acknowledges that - it's just that the 3D aspect of it isn't really going to amount to much apart from developers putting a lot of effort into the 3D aspects of the intro sequence and first level of their game. 


With the PSP2, of course it'll have some great games, but if the price is as high as it seems it will be, it's going to have a really tough time in the market. He's completely right about smartphones and the $1-2 games available for them, and any industry analyst will say the same thing about them taking a HUGE share of the handheld market. This will only grow as smartphones become more and more of a standard.

Apart from that, the PSP2 won't even really have a niche like the original PSP did; smartphones can play media and browse the internet probably just as well as this can, the 3DS's graphics processing power are good enough that the PSP2 isn't going to stand out on this like it did with the original PSP/DS comparison, and anybody who's going to want a better graphical experience than the 3DS isn't going to want or need it in a handheld; they'll play it at home on their PS3 or Xbox. 

This will also be noticeable regarding the games as well; the two main reasons why the PSP sold as well as it did in Japan is because the price went down to that of a DS eventually, and it had a number of "must-have" titles - these titles couldn't have been made on the DS due to its hardware capabilities, and they weren't put on consoles because of the slow market penetration of the PS3 (and no market penetration of the Xbox360). Now we have a scenario where the prices will probably be around $100 different in Japan (maybe more), a home console that's in a lot of houses now (PS3), cheap and fun handheld games available at a super low price (smartphones), and a handheld system that will have WAY more users in the market as well as the ability to play pretty much any game you throw at it (3DS). 


I think the PSP2's only thing going for it is that it won't become outdated anytime soon...so it might see a surge in market share towards the end of its life (much like the PSP).


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## Tux' (Mar 3, 2011)

No matter what minor company will say, nothing is honestly going to stop how much they sell, and besides, this is fucking *ngmoco* and their games are... Adequate at the most. Honestly I downloaded  We Rule, played for all of five minutes and deleted it. Besides even though they are cheap games, a majority of the time for people who game on consoles, it's cheap quality. I don't think a company that makes games just to pass time has any right to say that the 3DS or NGP will be bad sellers. I can't wait to see them trying to ignore this comment when they are proved wrong.


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

Tux' said:
			
		

> I don't think a company that makes games just to pass time has any right to say that the 3DS or NGP will be bad sellers.




Why? The two are completely unrelated. Even so, the companies that make games "just to pass time" seem to have a pretty great understanding of the market (Nintendo would be the easiest example to use here).


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## Tux' (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

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Yes true that they have understanding of the market, but when a company like ngmoco says the 3DS and NGP will fail, it doesn't really make sense to me because mobile phone games are aimed at a different group of people most of the time. For example, the NGP in my opinion is more or less aimed towards hardcore gamers, while ngmoco sells games that are more or less for people who are casual gamers.

I should maybe rephrase what I said previously. They have the right to say that, just they shouldn't go flaunting it around saying the 3DS and NGP are going to fail just solely on the reason of their price(Well that's what I get out of the section for the NGP, at least). 

Of course, this is just my opinion, so it doesn't really matter towards some people, and people will think otherwise.

And lastly, sorry my thoughts are all over the place, I am just a bit tired right now


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## SPH73 (Mar 3, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> NGP dead on arrival.



This is basically the general consensus for most industry people. Especially behind closed doors. Even the retail buyers are wary. Extremely wary.

And 3D visuals are gimmicky. But they've been making 3D movies since the 50s. 3D is a gimmick that continually goes in and out of style. 

tl:dr = don't buy any sony stock, gimmicks will move units.


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## Oveneise (Mar 3, 2011)

Ahh... feel the wisdom!


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> Well, regarding the 3DS, as awesome as the 3D might be, it really is gimmicky on a fundamental level* With Nintendo it not*.; it is known to cause eye strain *everything cause eye strain then it only to certain people .*, it drains the batteries *batteries aren't infinite, 3D top 5 hours it not the best,but it doable.*and it can be turned off, meaning every game will have to be playable without it.* Why do some people said this? IT THERE TO BE FAIR TO EVERYONE. If it wasn't there people who can not see 3D can't used it at all, Nintendo can have that. They was being respectful for those small set of people.  *  The system itself will be great, sell a lot, and have a lot of great games, and he acknowledges that - it's just that the 3D aspect of it isn't really going to amount to much apart from developers putting a lot of effort into the 3D aspects of the intro sequence and first level of their game.
> *Oh you are a expert dev now?  You do not now what they going to do with the 3D and most likely it isn't that. *
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> With the PSP2, of course it'll have some great games, but if the price is as high as it seems it will be, it's going to have a really tough time in the market. He's completely right about smartphones and the $1-2 games available for them, and any industry analyst will say the same thing about them taking a HUGE share of the handheld market. This will only grow as smartphones become more and more of a standard.
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I hope you not trying to say all their games are "just to pass time".


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

Tux' said:
			
		

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I'm not so sure they are different markets though...before the DS/PSP, there was no "hardcore market" for handhelds, and I would say that even with the PSP, a lot of people who own it aren't "hardcore gamers." A lot of people who bought handhelds can find everything they need with smartphone games; the handheld market was ALWAYS more casual than the home console market, and a huge number of people who bought handheld games are going to go in the direction of smartphones when faced with the choice of $1-10 a game vs. $60 and a $400 system. Of course there will be a niche for the PSP2, but it's going to be a lot smaller than before, and very possibly not big enough to be a sustainable market, ESPECIALLY with the 3DS in there.


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> I'm not so sure they are different markets though...before the DS/PSP, there was no "hardcore market" for handhelds, and I would say that even with the PSP, a lot of people who own it aren't "hardcore gamers." A lot of people who bought handhelds can find everything they need with smartphone games; the handheld market was ALWAYS more casual than the home console market, and a huge number of people who bought handheld games are going to go in the direction of smartphones when faced with the choice of $1-10 a game vs. $60 and a $400 system. Of course there will be a niche for the PSP2, but it's going to be a lot smaller than before, and very possibly not big enough to be a sustainable market, ESPECIALLY with the 3DS in there.


"Hardcore market" came because of tech. They stuff on handhelds you will never find on a smartphone like real game support and better design meant for gaming.
Smartphone phones like to imitate real/better games through tech with mostly graphics which now doesn't come close to 3DS or NGP. Those games (iphone) are just games to put out there to be play just boredom and convenient for 5mins or less. When I pick up a portable I play it to have fun when I'm alone or have a good times with friend for very long game sections. I wouldn't take out a phone and say "Hey guys let's have a less quality Mario kart clone race." Plus some people tend to want their devices separate. 

Iphone games will always lack something, that charm as a true gaming devices.


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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That's all true, but my point was that a large amount of the handheld market are people who play it for a few minutes on the train or whatever, much more so than the console market. Of course these things aren't going to sell zero units, but the market out there is much smaller for them now; a lot of the handheld market CAN be satisfied by smartphone games. As sweet as it looks, the PSP2 in particular doesn't have much of an edge over the other devices, but it'll be interesting to see if Sony can deliver something unique with it (or at the very least ensure a quality library) and make it stand out this way.


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> That's all true, but my point was that a large amount of the handheld market are people who play it for a few minutes on the train or whatever, much more so than the console market. Of course these things aren't going to sell zero units, but the market out there is much smaller for them now; a lot of the handheld market CAN be satisfied by smartphone games. As sweet as it looks, the PSP2 in particular doesn't have much of an edge over the other devices, but it'll be interesting to see if Sony can deliver something unique with it (or at the very least ensure a quality library) and make it stand out this way.


OK, but what make you think that the majority of the handheld market is towards 5mins, low quality games vs long, quality play games? 

It seem you are just assuming.

Plus I like to be fully satisfied with my gaming.


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## Narayan (Mar 3, 2011)

are iphone games really that good...for hardcore gamers? angry birds? you just simply throw a bird? i'd like to push a lot of buttons. i'm really a PC gamer so i like my hands moving so fast. which makes my blood run fast and my heart beat faster.


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## Maedhros (Mar 3, 2011)

Ngwho? A company that published a copy/paste of Locoroco?

Useless oppinions article.


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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Well the numbers that iPhone/Droid games are pushing are more than assumptions, as are the sales figures for casual handheld games. I never said they were low-quality though. But the number of people who bought a DS and mostly played casual games is staggering - and even if these people would go on to buy a "hardcore" game somewhere down the line, chances are they won't buy a PSP2 if they're mostly satisfied with their smartphone. 

The other answer to your question would be that the majority of the handheld market has always focused on shorter games meant for portable gaming.

It's also worth noting that you can have long, quality games on a smartphone as well, in particular RPGs (I would say the vast majority of "long" games on the DS were RPGs).


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 3, 2011)

I may be a Nintendo fan, but even I know that the NGP won't be "dead on arrival", nor near it.


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## Elvarg (Mar 3, 2011)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> I may be a Nintendo fan, but even I know that the NGP won't be "dead on arrival", nor near it.



that seems obvious.


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## DrOctapu (Mar 3, 2011)

GameWinner said:
			
		

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They also made Eliminate, which was pretty much the best FPS on iOS until they fucking ruined it with all their freemium bullshit. I was a god at that game until all the paying players started beefing the shit out of their weapons for cash. Yeah, the 3D's going to be a total gimmick, but I'm hoping Sony comes through with the NGP and doesn't fuck it up like the PSP, which I believe had a whole year without any games being released for it.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 3, 2011)

3ds is gimmicky huh and this coming from a dev who makes sw for apple fuck off back to sucking up jobs ass!


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> Well the numbers that iPhone/Droid games are pushing are more than assumptions, as are the sales figures for casual handheld games. I never said they were low-quality though. But the number of people who bought a DS and mostly played casual games is staggering - and even if these people would go on to buy a "hardcore" game somewhere down the line, chances are they won't buy a PSP2 if they're mostly satisfied with their smartphone.
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Same here...


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> What are you talking about




You should probably re-read my post


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## Vigilante (Mar 3, 2011)

Outch, kinda feeling bad for sony after what NGmoco said


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

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You said here

"I would say the vast majority of "long" games on the DS were RPGs"

Which I'm saying isn't true, there is a lot of different type of games that are long. 

Tell me what I read wrong. Did you read my post?


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## Evo.lve (Mar 3, 2011)

NahuelDS said:
			
		

> what a shitload of fuck


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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Because exceptions do not prove the rule; naming a few games that are not RPGs doesn't change the fact that the majority of "long-players" on the DS are RPGs. The fact that you named a bunch of adventure games (which could EASILY be done on a smartphone) and some games that were designed to be played in short bursts hinted that you missed my point completely.


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> Because exceptions do not prove the rule; naming a few games that are not RPGs doesn't change the fact that the majority of "long-players" on the DS are RPGs. The fact that you named a bunch of adventure games (which could EASILY be done on a smartphone) and some games that were designed to be played in short bursts hinted that you missed my point completely.


I stated some games, never said that was all the games. The statement isn't true whether I stated some games or not. 
I didn't list any short bursts. There are puzzle,fighting,action and adventure. 

Yes maybe some can easily be rehash for a cheap buck,but it wouldn't be as good as what it was
regularly made for, a true game device.

Other words even if high-profile game was taken exactly from game device and put on a phone it wouldn't hold
the same feel/value as on a true game device.


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## nintendoom (Mar 3, 2011)

)
Gimmicky!!
like what they called the DS..
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## iMasaru (Mar 3, 2011)

Since when has a "gimmick" been a bad thing? Gimmicks (in the gaming world) are anything new brought to the console (which might not really be needed, but helps boost the gaming experience and taking gaming or the console to a new level). Back when Dual Analogs were introduced, they were gimmicks, so was the twin screen for the DS, the Touchscreen, listening to music and taking photos, GPS... ect. The list can keep on going, even when the T.Vs went from black and white to coloured, THAT was a gimmick. For some reason people now a days, think having a gimmick is a bad thing. Just like all those other things, the 3D in gaming is also a gimmick and a good one at it.

As for the NGP, sure there will be abit of a problem with the prices and all, but there's still millions of people (term of figure of speech) who love the idea of being able to play the graphics of a home gaming console on a handheld. While it's true that most of the games announced so far are just direct ports, there's still quite some time before the NGP is released, so we really can't count it out yet.


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## FireGrey (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm guessing that he's angry because he doesn't get enough money from his stupid games to produce a title for these 2 systems.


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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I still stand by it, and like I said, naming some games that aren't in the majority doesn't prove anything; if we're talking about long-playing games, there aren't more puzzle, fighting, action, or racing games than RPGs. But again, you missed my point. 


So you don't think Mario Kart, Layton, Super Mario Bros, Grand Theft Auto, can be played in short bursts? Really? 

You think Phoenix Wright, Layton, 999, would be radically different on a smartphone than on a DS? You really think this? How would they be different?


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## DSGamer64 (Mar 3, 2011)

CarbonX13 said:
			
		

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Yet the 3DS will probably have applications like Facebook just like the DSi did. It is irrelevant to discount other portable devices that are hardly on the market. Odds are you will see Twitter and Facebook on the 3DS and NGP at some point, however with those applications you constantly need a wireless connection to stay updated.


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## iMasaru (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

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HAVE you played Call of Duty (zombie mode),  on the iTouch/iPhone? if you had, you wouldn't be saying its the same as playing games on the handhelds and on a smartphone...


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

iMasaru said:
			
		

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Can you point out to me where I said playing Call of Duty (zombie mode) on a smartphone is the same as playing it on handhelds? 


Take your time and let me know when you find it.


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## Maedhros (Mar 3, 2011)

TechnoWorm said:
			
		

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The 3D aspect seems to be more gimmicky than the touch controls because they affect the gameplay directly, different from 3D which just enhance the visuals.

But this guy is stupid. Nobody should give credit for someone like him.


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## iMasaru (Mar 3, 2011)

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my bad, i phrased it wrong. I meant that if you play that game you will see that playing games on the handheld and playing it on a smart phone just isn't the same. You asked if "Mario Kart", "Super Mario Bros" and "GTA" can be played in short bursts, sure they can... BUT the main question to be asked is, will the games be as smooth and easier to handle on a smartphone as it is on the actual gaming console. The answer is "no". Sure, certain games like "Professor Layton" and "Phoenix Wright" can be made to work out, however the other type of games just won't be the same.


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## concealed identi (Mar 3, 2011)

iMasaru said:
			
		

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Right, but the points you're making aren't any different from the things I said before. I never said those other games would be the same.


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> So you don't think Mario Kart, Layton, Super Mario Bros, Grand Theft Auto, can be played in short bursts? Really?
> 
> You think Phoenix Wright, Layton, 999, would be radically different on a smartphone than on a DS? You really think this? How would they be different?


It can, but it not what it made for. Games mostly on iphone are made in for short bursts. 

And maybe those games won't be different ( Phoenix Wright, Layton, 999 ) in terms of looks. 

But if I had to pick between a quick or/and rehash made version on a iphone vs a well made version (which btw I can hold physically in my hand)
made for/ to fit the gaming devices I want. I whether pick the well made one.


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## concealed identi (Mar 4, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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That's fine, my point was that you are in the minority; if people can get the exact same game that plays identically to the original for under $10 instead of buying a $250-300 system and then spending another $40-60 on the game, a huge number of them will choose the former.


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## machomuu (Mar 4, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

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Actually he's not in the minority.  Most people would rather play games on the original system(s) they were meant for as aesthetically this amost always look worse on iHardware and controls feel cramped as they are on the screen with the game itself, making it difficult to control many games and just uncomfortable.  Also, you are omitting the cost of iHardware itself.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 4, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Actually he's not in the minority.  Most people would rather play games on the original system(s) they were meant for as aesthetically this amost always look worse on iHardware and controls feel cramped as they are on the screen with the game itself, making it difficult to control many games and just uncomfortable.  Also, you are omitting the cost of iHardware itself.



Megaman is a prime example. It controls like shit on the iOS.


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## blackdragonbaham (Mar 4, 2011)

comes to question what will come to life first, handhelds you can make calls with or smartphones which offer the features to make playing on em comfortable. at one point one of those two cases will become true. but we aren't at that point yet, to put smartphones on the same level as handhelds isn't right. also you can get a lot of software, apps and games to your smartphone they are nothing in comparison to real portable games which don't only entertain you for a short time but offer real gaming experience 'to go'. those prognoses are annoying and nothing more.


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## concealed identi (Mar 4, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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I'm not omitting anything, because my point is that people aren't buying smartphones for gaming but already have them and USE them for gaming. That's what I've been saying. 

And he's definitely in the minority; loads of people aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars to play a game they can get for less than 10 bucks on their phone. What they'd rather have wasn't my point, it's what they actually do. I'd rather have a TV than a TV tuner for my computer, but I bought the TV tuner because it was loads cheaper. 


Honestly, this is getting tiring, every post I'm making now is just in response to people extrapolating stuff from my posts I've never said.


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## KingVamp (Mar 4, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> I'm not omitting anything, because my point is that people aren't buying smartphones for gaming but already have them and USE them for gaming. That's what I've been saying.
> 
> And he's definitely in the minority; loads of people aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars to play a game they can get for less than 10 bucks on their phone. What they'd rather have wasn't my point, it's what they actually do. I'd rather have a TV than a TV tuner for my computer, but I bought the TV tuner because it was loads cheaper.
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Just 'cause you do not want to believe doesn't make you right.  

All your points have been countered.

You seem to be the minority 'cause I weather have a TV vs a TV tuner because a
TV is in better quality.


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## Maedhros (Mar 4, 2011)

Gaming on iPod Touch sucks. I know, because I have one. Besides the touch games (and genres like RPG), everything that uses the virtual gamepad SUCKS HARD. Period.


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## concealed identi (Mar 4, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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Wow. All I can really say is that I recommend you read my posts carefully before you reply to them. I'm guessing English isn't your first language, so I don't mean to sound rude, but I can't argue with someone who makes the same points as I do and counts that as a counterargument. And I'm right because, in this case, I happen to be right. Of course I'm open to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen an effective argument that relates to what I actually said yet.


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## KingVamp (Mar 4, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> Wow. All I can really say is that I recommend you read my posts carefully before you reply to them. I'm guessing English isn't your first language, so I don't mean to sound rude, but I can't argue with someone who makes the same points as I do and counts that as a counterargument. And I'm right because, in this case, I happen to be right. Of course I'm open to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen an effective argument that relates to what I actually said yet.



Agree on that fact that most games on games device are always going to be better than on the iphone, but for the most point; what you are saying
is that the majority of people will buy cheaper, less quality games (stuff) vs people who will play for well-made original games (stuff).

Which in fact isn't true. 

You do not need to insult people for your misunderstanding of the conversation.


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## concealed identi (Mar 4, 2011)

1. I didn't say that.

2. I didn't misunderstand anything, YOU misunderstood. YOU replied to my argument (incorrectly). You are STILL misunderstanding my argument, even after I have to keep repeating myself, so it's laughable that you even suggest I am the one misunderstanding anything. Point out to me what I misunderstood. Go ahead.

3. I didn't insult anybody, not sure what you're talking about there.


I can't help but feel like the people replying to my posts aren't even reading them properly. Surely that's a requirement if you want to discuss something?


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## KingVamp (Mar 4, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

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Go ahead and make a summary of your point.


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## concealed identi (Mar 4, 2011)

That wasn't an insult, I honestly wasn't sure if English was your first language. That's why I wrote that. You seem to have problems with the subtlety of the language (based on you extrapolating all of these arguments I never said), and you've used some really strange grammar from the beginning. Sorry if that offended you, I honestly thought maybe it wasn't your first language and didn't want you to feel bad about it.


As for the point I made that you highlighted, yes, you definitely misunderstood. Read it again, and read the reply you wrote about it. Notice how your summary of my point is completely different from the one you highlighted.



Here's a summary of my point:



Well, regarding the 3DS, as awesome as the 3D might be, it really is gimmicky on a fundamental level; it is known to cause eye strain, it drains the batteries, and it can be turned off, meaning every game will have to be playable without it. The system itself will be great, sell a lot, and have a lot of great games, and he acknowledges that - it's just that the 3D aspect of it isn't really going to amount to much apart from developers putting a lot of effort into the 3D aspects of the intro sequence and first level of their game. 


With the PSP2, of course it'll have some great games, but if the price is as high as it seems it will be, it's going to have a really tough time in the market. He's completely right about smartphones and the $1-2 games available for them, and any industry analyst will say the same thing about them taking a HUGE share of the handheld market. This will only grow as smartphones become more and more of a standard.

Apart from that, the PSP2 won't even really have a niche like the original PSP did; smartphones can play media and browse the internet probably just as well as this can, the 3DS's graphics processing power are good enough that the PSP2 isn't going to stand out on this like it did with the original PSP/DS comparison, and anybody who's going to want a better graphical experience than the 3DS isn't going to want or need it in a handheld; they'll play it at home on their PS3 or Xbox. 

This will also be noticeable regarding the games as well; the two main reasons why the PSP sold as well as it did in Japan is because the price went down to that of a DS eventually, and it had a number of "must-have" titles - these titles couldn't have been made on the DS due to its hardware capabilities, and they weren't put on consoles because of the slow market penetration of the PS3 (and no market penetration of the Xbox360). Now we have a scenario where the prices will probably be around $100 different in Japan (maybe more), a home console that's in a lot of houses now (PS3), cheap and fun handheld games available at a super low price (smartphones), and a handheld system that will have WAY more users in the market as well as the ability to play pretty much any game you throw at it (3DS). 


I think the PSP2's only thing going for it is that it won't become outdated anytime soon...so it might see a surge in market share towards the end of its life (much like the PSP).


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## Sterling (Mar 4, 2011)

iPhone, iPod, iPad. The only reason these guys are even remotely in the gaming market is because many people have them. Not everyone will use the iPhone for games, however the possibility is there. Many people I know get the iPod not just for music, but for games. The iPad I've known people to get for a good tablet, and good reading. Many people get the i Line of products for different reasons. The iPhone without a contract is  a lot of money. Like double the cost of the 3DS here. The iPod touch is 100 dollars more expensive than the 3DS for the top quality touches. Which will probably become obsolete within 2 years, while the 3DS will perhaps have a revision with some worthwhile features while maintaining all compatibility with every 3DS game.

the 3DS, NGP, and iProducts all have their target audiences. iProducts are a Jack of All Trades, and a Master of None. NGP is a portable powerhouse designed for HD gaming on the go. 3DS is a portable console that looks great, plays great, and has many great games in its future.

Addressing the downloadable nature of iProducts is another story. The app store is based purely on impulse buying. The items are designed as such with the busy, and on the go in mind. There is little to no thought on, "Should I get this game?" Because they are so cheap. The iProducts will never play the same as a dedicated gaming platform.


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## Arithmatics (Mar 4, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> Addressing the downloadable nature of iProducts is another story. The app store is based purely on impulse buying. The items are designed as such with the busy, and on the go in mind. There is little to no thought on, "Should I get this game?" Because they are so cheap. *The iProducts will never play the same as a dedicated gaming platform*.



This.

Say what you want about Sony and Nintendo, But bear in mind that the little piece of limited chicken sh1t you call an iProduct will *NEVER* beat dedicated handhelds.

GAMERZ FTW!!!


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## KingVamp (Mar 4, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

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This isn't a summary, this is a re-post that I already addressed. 

If my English isn't to par for you, which doesn't matter because this is forum, you understand what I was saying.

I and including others have made your points disproved.


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## concealed identi (Mar 5, 2011)

How did I not realize until now that I was being trolled. I've got to get better at spotting those!


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## KingVamp (Mar 5, 2011)

concealed identity said:
			
		

> How did I not realize until now that I was being trolled. I've got to get better at spotting those!


Funny because I figure a while back that you was doing the trolling. 

Done with you 'cause at this point we are just derailing. 

Go on with your false points and have fun playing those cheap/rehash games you like so much.


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## concealed identi (Mar 6, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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quoted for proof


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