# We got another one.



## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2019)

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/worl...gn-against-herself/ar-BBXnHBl?ocid=anaheimntp
Chicago should pay attention.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 26, 2019)

"She was refused bail"
Bit hardcore down there. Cuffed on the 15th and if she is somehow acquitted* on the 27th that is a fair stint inside for a non violent essentially victimless crime (though I am more than happy to see someone slapped for wasting police time and false reporting/evidence giving in the end).

*doubtful that such things will happen. The state/crown usually tries to make a good case and here I imagine even more than usual lest they suffer a serious bout of whining sent their way.

More curious is she was a real scientist of the hard science disciplines as well (granted environmental science is on the washier end of the spectrum), and presumably fairly senior at that to make dean of faculty rather than a reader or something. I don't normally expect that.


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## notimp (Nov 27, 2019)

Look at this women.






Why are you now interested in her life - to the point that it makes you angry, or weary.

I see a way out of this...

And if you are trying to manufacture your reality into generalizing this for all women. Congratulation, your are on your way to becoming a misogynist and a misanthropist. Please don't.

Problem solved.


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## cots (Nov 28, 2019)

She's the same type of person that would accuse someone of sexually assaulting them 20 years ago and expect everyone to overlook due process with the sole purpose of ruining someones life. At least in this instance she got caught. A lot of times these attention seekers get away with it.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 28, 2019)

I did a quick scan earlier but as nothing of great note happened in it I was going to leave it.

Anyway she was in court. Pled not guilty to all three charges. Next back in court in February (forensics apparently need time to go over electronic devices, bit long if you ask me but maybe there is a backlog or something), presumably released back to the world (apparently the police mispoke at one point at she was released on the 25th, though that is still some time inside for something like this). School has closed ranks but has said she is suspended with full pay (some 180K AUD a year, other reports noting the school dropped some 150K in handling it).

Some of the news reports mention that this "harassment" campaign started when the school opted not to continue with their traditional Chinese* medicine course (quite what a chemistry department has to do with such things I don't know but hey) but generally failed to substantiate anything here.

*for those not aware Australian schools, and the economy in general, make an absolute fucking fortune from Chinese students.
For the basics here of Australia's relationship with China


https://www.9news.com.au/national/u...y-150000/9e11ca05-6980-4309-91c4-49e25a4b936b
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/wor...estrating-harassment-campaign-against-herself
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...campaign-against-herself-20191127-p53efv.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...150-000-Dean-Science-threat-allegedly-UP.html


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## leon315 (Nov 28, 2019)

i read she's a *toxicologist*, guess she's *too T O X I C *lul


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Guys, please.

Why the heck is that fascinating you so much that you have to follow it with morbid curiosity.

Wasted time. If you only want to trigger 'I always feared this, and look it came true!" emotional payoffs, again - look at what subsection of society you are moving around in to fulfill your urges.

Could it be, that nothing about this is important on any level?

Could it be that this is just the far right again manufacturing thought patterns that make you better hate filled misogynists?

Do you really have issues identifying this as an entirely unimportant useless bubble you train your extremist worldviews in?

*knock**knock* Anybody home?

Get out of those emotional reward loops. Please. The world has so much more to it that than one middle aged persons flawed scheme to matter more socially. (The catlady archetype comes to mind even. What, now those are your targets to feel better, more intelligent?

There is a concept called - dont kick people that already are on the ground. Even if you do it passive aggressively like you all at the moment.

Aim higher.)


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## cots (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> Guys, please.
> 
> Why the heck is that fascinating you so much that you have to follow it with morbid curiosity.
> 
> ...



#metoo stopped being sexist and now includes (or those who identify as) men. I was clearly addressing hate filled vengeance seeking attention whores that could care less about the actual law process (those exist in either biological sexes). "Oh I'm a victim". Yeah you are - of your own self diluted fantasy (that you happened to drag other people into).


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Language, please.

Also - thats really not the point here. I can create 'random deperate person on twitter did something stupid' all day. You can have 'told you so' reward loops for ages, without any of this ever mattering at all.

Get out of those thought processes.

Creating self fullfilling payoff routines in your own microcosms, wont help you in life.

This is low level emotional payoff hunting. Same populism scale as racism. The far right elite doesnt even believe in this mattering. Never did. Its emotional outrage pr0n.

Then you come up with - we all need Donald to save us from this, and thats your entire  concept of politics right? Thats populism.

Don't bite.

And leave that poor women alone for gods sake.


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## cots (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> Language, please.
> 
> Also - thats really not the point here. I can create 'random deperate person on twitter did something stupid' all day. You can have 'told you so' reward loops for ages, without any of this ever mattering at all.
> 
> ...



Outraged? No, more like spasming from laughter. When I read stories about how people faked being victims of hate crimes or how they ripped off thousands of people for hundreds of thousands of dollars by faking cancer on a blog I have to start using my critical thinking skills and imagine the people involved in all aspects of the situation. So, this leads me to spasm from laughter. I mean, who thought it would be a good idea not to verify these peoples claims before being duped? The irony is just too much to handle so I have to laugh out loud.


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Ok. Same.

You dont kick people that are on the floor.
You dont laugh about them publicly either.

Point being, dont go for those emotional payoffs. Please.


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## cots (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> Ok. Same.
> 
> You dont kick people that are on the floor.
> You dont laugh about them publicly either.
> ...



My shrink told me it's healthy to smile and bad to become consumed with rage. If the reason you're on the floor is because you tripped and fell into your own shit I'm not going to feel sorry for you. And unlike most people I'll still offer you my hand to help you stand back up (though I just might have to sanitize my hand afterwards).


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Also @cots: Same defense as with the Pepe the frog memes right?

I don't do it to distribute hate, I do it to distribute lolz, right?

Think about it. Emotionially this is still kindling to get people to become more open to extremist views.


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## Deleted User (Nov 29, 2019)

IDK what all this arguing is about, but I posted this because I thought people might be interested in Jussie Smollet's distant Australian cousin.


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## cots (Nov 29, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> IDK what all this arguing is about, but I posted this because I thought people might be interested in Jussie Smollet's distant Australian cousin.



... and like his fake came crime comes with it drama.  Thanks for posting. This sort of stuff cracks me up.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> Guys, please.
> 
> Why the heck is that fascinating you so much that you have to follow it with morbid curiosity.
> 
> ...



Various things to look at here, even more so with the possible China vs Australia angle.

One of the things is one of the narratives is people, or indeed women, don't lie about this sort of thing. Given there are sociopaths in the world that seems a stretch but this does go against that.

Another narrative is that people doing this sort of thing don't get slapped for it. This rather goes against that.

In my case the misbehaviours of scientists and academics, much less those doing stuff in hard science and in charge of departments in leading light research institutions, concerns me.

If all you want to see is some kind of ideology at work then maybe you have become what you fear. If this counts as kicking someone when they are down then do they even know we exist?


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Probably not.  And this isnt a zero sum game. You will not only do better if they 'cant get away with it' anymore. Life doesnt work that way in this regard.

(Also there are strange analogies to racism (pitch the lower economic classes against each other) here as well.)



> Another narrative is that people doing this sort of thing don't get slapped for it. This rather goes against that.


Thank you for pointing that out. Hope it helps.


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> IDK what all this arguing is about, but I posted this because I thought people might be interested in Jussie Smollet's distant Australian cousin.


Arguing is about, that you left out intent or purpose for why you are manufacturing outrage here.

Idk how others see it, but to me manufacturing a fake harassment campaign against oneself, to simply broker attention, is as close to a public display of self harm, as we get in this modern age.

Now why are you building a "we" identity around gotcha catching, and publicly ridiculing those kinds of people? What does it give you internally.

Yes, this is more problematic, as it was attempted to be used as a strategy to get a leg up in her professional life - but this still doesnt mean that this is a widespread issue - with people, in droves, outright destroying their careers preemtively - for a chance to get more social recognition, if no one finds out.


So in short - yes, you need the public pillory of "this is a thing now". People go to jail for, and ruining their professional careers, and probably private lives with - if they ever get caught.

But you don't need the 'quickly, get together, its spreading - join in our ecstasy kicking a mentally deranged person' angle to it, that you promoted.

Also no - there is no analogy to be had in how this is handled in the US as to compared with Australia - because for all that matters those are single cases (and comparisons between those two legal system arent very interesting either).

Also - I dont see anyone posting - dude or gal got job because of mobbying hi/her direct rival, and misrepresenting their work either. So you are not interested in the "structural issue" here. (People do whatever they perceive as giving them advantages in their professional life.) You are only interested in playing an angle where - a oh so liberal society - gets abused for its standard to want to help out suppressed minorities, HAHA - told you so, right?

Now again - whats your purpose.

- Do you want to inform others that this is the case (then why go with "we caught another one!")
- Do you want to ridicule the mentally deranged (hint, not as big of a societal issue as you may want to make out of it)
- Do you want to give people food to ridicule others on the basis, of haha - even dudebro is more moral than this lady
- Do you want to change societaly morals, so we dont protect the weak anymore
- Do you want to misrepresent this as a structural issue - so anyone can play misogynist attribution games - whats the deal here.


Those stories are in the media to produce somewhat of a chilling effect, so that people understand, that if they try it - and are caught, their lives will be ruined, professionally and socially. They are not there for you to drum up laughter cycle and hate against social practices.

Yes, we know - that "safe space" or public outrage culture can be abused. (As can every other culture) We are well aware.

Now dont get the mob together to publicaly demean or shame those people any further, if you are not personally affected. Awareness yes, ridiculing or even mobilizing against grave injustice here - no. You usually shouldnt get that many people in leading positions - who are that mentally unstable, that this gets to be a widespread issue you could reasonably (politically) campaign for this being a huge issue that we have to do something about.

Also the 'but all I wanted was to inform' angle is naive at most. Don't act as if you didn't realize, that this story couldt be used to unite gamers behind mysoginist or even just ultra right wing "how wrong is that!" anti social status quo protest. Again.

Simply recognize that those stories exist to demote that behavior and go on with your life.

Its the same level of outrage baiting you saw in the yellow press in my country for decades. "Minority robber robbed rights abiding majority race citizen. Very worrysome." Not really. In this case especially, those are very odd statistical outliers. So now try getting through your day without worrying all day long about the deeper implication of that.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> They are not there for you to drum up laughter cycle and hate against social practices.


Says you. Personally even if the person telling the story does not roll the same way as me I will dig down a little bit deeper to see if there is something interesting there. My bigger issue with the title is that it is not terribly informative.





notimp said:


> Now dont get the mob together to publicaly demean or shame those people any further, if you are not personally affected. Awareness yes, ridiculing or even mobilizing against grave injustice here - no. You usually shouldnt get that many people in leading positions - who are that mentally unstable, that this gets to be a widespread issue you could reasonably (politically) campaign for this being a huge issue that we have to do something about.
> 
> Also the 'but all I wanted was to inform' angle is naive at most. Don't act as if you didn't realize, that this story couldt be used to unite gamers behind mysoginist or even just ultra right wing "how wrong is that!" anti social status quo protest. Again.



So what if it could? Do we ban random books that people have used as justifications for various unpleasant acts?

Also is it mental instability? There is still the malicious option.


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Yes you are correct.

Please look into it.

I believe - in this case this article serves as public shaming, and equally as informing people that stuff like this is happening.

But also, that if you are really emotionally moved by it, but were not personally affected - something went wrong, somewhere along the line. Simply because 'Betty in accounting badmouthed her new colleague' is similar in terms of motive, happens everyday arround the world - and doesnt nearly promote the "America versus Australia - what can we deduct from Bettys behaviour" analysis afterwards.

And also - mitigating fact - to actually self harm your reputation, you have to be a little on the edge, so this becoming a widespread issue should be protected by the 'you'd have to be bonkers' factor first and foremost.

Which is also where my 'protective impulse' comes from.

If there is more to the story I dont want to cover it up. Please go fact hunting. I just have something against the emotional 'bait to badmouth' thats inherent here. As long as that person is 'suficiently' reputation ruined already - dont add insult to injury - especially when what she did was kind of psychologically 'out there'.

Other people might not agree. (Reaction to Jussie Smollet on 'Black Twitter' was quite a bit different, I remember.)
-

I'll make myself open for attacks even more.
When I was younger, I read Charles Bukowski and found one quote attributed to him (although he probably never said it, source could not be pinpointed) rather 'intelligent/amusing' in an odd way. "Feminism exists only because ugly women want to integrate in society".

Now, yes its chauvinistic. Yes its wrong. Yes it portraits certain power phantasies. Yes the glass ceiling is an issue. But also - there is some strange hint at the 'importance' of some social activism, that still  kind of rings true, and gives me pleasure in a trolly kind of way.

But at no point - even, when maybe finding more enjoyment in that line, than I should have - did I ever cross the line to 'thats a grave issue, we have to do something about it, lets mobilize'. So whenever I see that 'herd' mentality against an utter outlier of an issue, I react unfavorably.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> But also, that if you are really emotionally moved by it, but were not personally affected - something went wrong, somewhere along the line.



That seems to be along the same lines/schools of thought as the "if you don't like it then move" or "you don't live here" when talking to Septics about guns.



notimp said:


> When I was younger, I read Charles Bukowski and found one quote attributed to him (although he probably never said it, source could not be pinpointed) rather 'intelligent/amusing' in an odd way. "Feminism exists only because ugly women want to integrate in society".
> 
> Now, yes its chauvinistic. Yes its wrong. Yes it portraits certain power phantasies. Yes the glass ceiling is an issue. But also - there is some strange hint at the 'importance' of some social activism, that still  kind of rings true, and gives me pleasure in a trolly kind of way.
> 
> But at no point - even, when maybe finding more enjoyment in that line, than I should have - did I ever cross the line to 'thats a grave issue, we have to do something about it, lets mobilize'.


Sounds like you encountered a joke. They often take a kernel of truth and exaggerate it a bit for laughs. It is a fairly standard comedic form. Glad you recognised that at some level.


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

Damn, I knew there was something. So that was what it was... 

(Bukowski has an 'interesting' life story. And 'writing style'. Its moreso something that he could have said without a grain of irony.  But then he probably didn't say it at all..  So yes, trolly joke - most likely.)


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## notimp (Nov 29, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> That seems to be along the same lines/schools of thought as the "if you don't like it then move" or "you don't live here" when talking to Septics about guns.


Too much emotion for no apparent reason seems along the lines of if you dont like it get out of town?

Here is a more fun explanation of why I might be wrong.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> Too much emotion for no apparent reason seems along the lines of if you dont like it get out of town?



More the "you don't live here"
Yet I have friends there, do business there, want to move there, it is a key part of the world that if it fails then it is notable, the field itself is one I am concerned with...

To restrict it to some kind of direct impact to you else fuck off discussing it seems to be rather missing the mark.


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## Deleted User (Nov 30, 2019)

notimp said:


> Arguing is about, that you left out intent or purpose for why you are manufacturing outrage here.
> 
> Idk how others see it, but to me manufacturing a fake harassment campaign against oneself, to simply broker attention, is as close to a public display of self harm, as we get in this modern age.
> 
> ...


We: the people of this world
got: have the following clause among the previous clause.
another: following clause is not the first
one: singular of a noun which implied by the context: in this case a Jussie Smollet.


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## notimp (Dec 2, 2019)

If ingroup = everyone > no possible issue with statement.


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