# World War III discussion



## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Hello,

I have been reflecting on the idea of a possible world war three scenario since russia made their move on ukraine and the response of 'the west'. A possible world war three scenario would be devistating to almost all, so it merits a closer look when so many factors start to vaguely point in this directon.

Now with the extreme right Azov mercs in the Ukraine surrendering to the russian forces, China might feel moralized enough to make their move on Taiwan in the future.



> If a US President keeps vowing to do something, and his aides keep insisting he won't, no one is sure what to believe -- a potential dangerous state of affairs on fraught international issues.



https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/23/politics/biden-china-taiwan-explainer/index.html

This is becoming increasingly the subject of open debate and discussion. It goes so far that Biden affirms that he will military intervene if China is going to make a move. His aides seem to disagree, but he is the President and he is supposed to be the one to make such decisions. So this is no joke at all.



Meanwhile weird nerd Chuck Todd is playing out the war scenario in great detail on the longest-running program on American television 'Meet the Press'. A program that gets global attention including elite players on the world stage.



Why is a creepy freak like Chuck Todd in a position to do such provocations?







Please share your perspective on this trajectory?


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

If I may give my humble opinion, I don't think there will be a third world war. Europe will do (and is doing) everything to prevent it. It is striking a difficult balance between abstaining from conflict by protecting its national interests, and some punitive intervention in the economic field: nothing else it can do, because it does not want to.

As everyone has now realized, this conflict is not wanted by the Russians, but by a handful of men, an oligarchy of the corrupt and corrupting, who fear that Western democratic and liberal ideas may take hold and drive their people to revolt, and overturn a pyramidal bureaucratic system based on corruption, nepotism, embezzlement, authorized theft and expropriation. Their system based on systematic lies, alteration of facts and threats is not likely to last long: already we see the first defections among the military, politicians, businessmen, etc. 

And then there is that suspicion of the leader's mental illness which, if it proves to be true, the direct subordinates will certainly not be able to turn a blind eye to, pandering to him and leading their country to ruin.

Regarding China, it has shown all these years that the only war it cares about (and is winning) is economic and commercial (and procreative ).
The Chinese people are by nature much more rational, logical, educated and morally upright than the Western people: they have not explicitly condemned the Russian action but neither have they supported it, keeping a diplomatic and mediating attitude so as not to upset their so-called allies. Ultimately, they have no interest in bringing death and distribution to the planet, in the name of abstract and illusory ideas: while Russia has a never outdated tradition of lies, ideological absurdities and denials dating back to the Soviet period and Stalinism, which prove to be die-hard.

Just some trivial considerations, and I sincerely hope I am not wrong, for everyone's sake.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

The only way that WW3 will be avoided is if Putin and his corrupt cabal are deposed. By force OR stealth, despite the fact that it's gonna be an absolute clusterfuck, since Russia has never dealt well with power vacuums. It is not very likely, however, since the bastard replaced his entire cabinet in february out of fear of being poisoned, a very popular way to kick the bucket in Russia.


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Nikokaro said:


> If I may give my humble opinion,


Of course.


Nikokaro said:


> I don't think there will be a third world war.


That is good to hear.


Nikokaro said:


> Europe will do (and is doing) everything to prevent it. It is striking a difficult balance between abstaining from conflict by protecting its national interests, and some punitive intervention in the economic field: nothing else it can do, because it does not want to.


Interesting. Would you say that europe is a indipendent power from the USA? It seems like the both are ruled by the same entities, don't you think? Am I wrong? Is there a break off happening? What are the implications?


Nikokaro said:


> As everyone has now realized, this conflict is not wanted by the Russians,


Yes that was pretty obvious, alot of russians live in the Ukraine, and the Ukrainians are their brothers.


Nikokaro said:


> but by a handful of men, an oligarchy of the corrupt and corrupting, who fear that Western democratic and liberal ideas may take hold and drive their people to revolt, and overturn a pyramidal bureaucratic system based on corruption, nepotism, embezzlement, authorized theft and expropriation. Their system based on systematic lies, alteration of facts and threats is not likely to last long: already we see the first defections among the military, politicians, businessmen, etc.


That is good to hear. If you are correct these decivers are pretty deeply invested in their scemes and won't give up without a fight. If they were to be found out on a world stage that would be a devistating blow to them. How do you see this play out?


Nikokaro said:


> And then there is that suspicion of the leader's mental illness which, if it proves to be true, the direct subordinates will certainly not be able to turn a blind eye to, pandering to him and leading their country to ruin.


But what if the leader has surrounded himself with people who are equally mentally ill, complicit or have blackmail on them?


Nikokaro said:


> Regarding China, it has shown all these years that the only war it cares about (and is winning) is economic and commercial (and procreative ).
> The Chinese people are by nature much more rational, logical, educated and morally upright than the Western people: they have not explicitly condemned the Russian action but neither have they supported it, keeping a diplomatic and mediating attitude so as not to upset their so-called allies. Ultimately, they have no interest in bringing death and distribution to the planet, in the name of abstract and illusory ideas: while Russia has a never outdated tradition of lies, ideological absurdities and denials dating back to the Soviet period and Stalinism, which prove to be die-hard.


I think if China comes to the conclusion that Taiwan is up for graps they will take it. For russia it is important to understand that the governemnt behind Stalin (the bolshewiks)  were completly different people then those who rule russia now.


Nikokaro said:


> Just some trivial considerations, and I sincerely hope I am not wrong, for everyone's sake.


I agree.


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> The only way that WW3 will be avoided is if Putin and his corrupt cabal are deposed. By force, despite the fact that it's gonna be an absolute clusterfuck, since Russia has never dealt well with power vacuums. It is not very likely, however, since the bastard replaced his entire cabinet in february out of fear of being poisoned, a very popular way to kick the bucket in Russia.


So you think that russia will further escalate the Situation beyond Ukraine?


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> The only way that WW3 will be avoided is if Putin and his corrupt cabal are deposed.


Easier said than done. Deposed by whom? By the people? Impossible! At the first hint of revolt there would be a massacre. The Russian people are too afraid: they were born and raised in an environment steeped in fear, and for this even free thinking fills them with fear.
Deposed perhaps by a foreign task force? Very difficult... Assuming they can get close to him, as soon as Putin sees himself in danger, he would take the whole world to hell with him, pressing those famous and feared buttons hidden under his desk...


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> So you think that russia will further escalate the Situation beyond Ukraine?


Putin will, if he feels pressured or desperate enough. Part of me wonders why he isn't squeezing ukraine more.
There's also the fact that with his blockades he's already causing starvation throughout the world, which frankly for me would be enough reason to sink his ships.


Nikokaro said:


> Easier said than done. Deposed by whom? By the people? Impossible! At the first hint of revolt there would be a massacre. The Russian people are too afraid: they were born and raised in an environment steeped in fear, and for this even free thinking fills them with fear.
> Deposed perhaps by a foreign task force? Very difficult... Assuming they can get close to him, as soon as Putin sees himself in danger, he would take the whole world to hell with him, pressing those famous and feared buttons hidden under his desk...


It would be REALLY good now for the CIA, for once, to do what they usually do. But the KGB is no joke.


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Putin will, if he feels pressured or desperate enough. Part of me wonders why he isn't squeezing ukraine more.
> There's also the fact that with his blockades he's already causing starvation, which frankly for me would be enough reason to sink his ships.


I see. What could a escalation on Putins side look like? Is he going to invade Poland?


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> I see. What could a escalation on Putins side look like? Is he going to invade Poland?


If he does, it's WW3. I think he's gonna expand more towards nations that aren't associated with NATO or the EU, to ensure his delusions of Soviet Union reborn are satisfied.

Frankly, the proble is that Putin, like Trump or other dictators, believes his own propaganda nonsense and surrounded himself with hordes of complacement yesmen and yeswomen who cannot give him a reality check because their lives depend on him being in lalaland. Of course, for Putin it took around 20 years of nonstop propaganda and of ruling Russia.

And TBH, a situation like this shows why EVERY political position needs a number of maximum terms that isn't high. One cannot be head of a nation as vast as Russia for the better part of half a century and not go drunk on their own power. And then the whole idea of having to give it up, clearly, it can make one break his mind.


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> What could a escalation on Putins side look like? Is he going to invade Poland?


Nope. Very unlikely. As for me, he is interested in Ukraine because it was getting too close to Western culture and politics. Putin is obsessed with the idea of having neutral states around Russia, because of the aforementioned fear of European liberal ideas; ultimately fear of losing his personal possessions (stolen from his people) and his despotic power.


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> If he does, it's WW3. I think he's gonna expand more towards nations that aren't associated with NATO or the EU, to ensure his delusions of Soviet Union reborn are satisfied.


That makes sense, non NATO countries would be less of an escalation.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Frankly, the proble is that Putin, like Trump or other dictators, believes his own propaganda nonsense and surrounded himself with hordes of complacement yesmen and yeswomen who cannot give him a reality check because their lives depend on him being in lalaland. Of course, for Putin it took around 20 years of nonstop propaganda and of ruling Russia.


But how did Trump step down as a dictator?


Dark_Ansem said:


> And TBH, a situation like this shows why EVERY political position needs a number of maximum terms that isn't high. One cannot be head of a nation as vast as Russia for the better part of half a century and not go drunk on their own power. And then the whole idea of having to give it up, clearly, it can make one break his mind.


I think that is a solid point. Too much power for to long can make a ruling class lose touch with reality.

You seem to have invested quite a bit of time into these subjects. How do you view the China situation?


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Nikokaro said:


> Nope. Very unlikely. As for me, he is interested in Ukraine because it was getting too close to Western culture and politics. Putin is obsessed with the idea of having neutral states around Russia, because of the aforementioned fear of European liberal ideas; ultimately fear of losing his personal possessions (stolen from his people) and his despotic power.


Not just your opinion TBH. There's also the fact that Ukraine used to be the cultural capital of the soviet union or smth.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> I think that is a solid point. Too much power for to long can make a ruling class lose touch with reality.


Oh it totally can. Look at the UK too.


Creamu said:


> But how did Trump step down as a dictator?


Kicking and screaming and trying to overturn the process at every turn.


Creamu said:


> You seem to have invested quite a bit of time into these subjects. How do you view the China situation?


Thank you for your kind words. What do you mean, china situation?


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Nikokaro said:


> Nope. Very unlikely. As for me, he is interested in Ukraine because it was getting too close to Western culture and politics.


That makes sense. If I'm not mistaken Ukraine means borderland.


Nikokaro said:


> Putin is obsessed with the idea of having neutral states around Russia, because of the aforementioned fear of European liberal ideas; ultimately fear of losing his personal possessions (stolen from his people) and his despotic power.


Don't you feel that european liberal idealism is having a identy crisis at the moment?


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Don't you feel that european liberal idealism is having a identy crisis at the moment?


Not at all. In fact, I'd say the crisis has galvanised it.


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Oh it totally can. Look at the UK too.


Could you elaborate, I would really liek to learn more about the situation there.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Kicking and screaming and trying to overturn the process at every turn.


He seems to be a rather incompetent dictator in contrast to Putin.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Thank you for your kind words. What do you mean, china situation?


In my opening post I worte about the attention that Taiwan gets, and how the USA and China have contrasting views.


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Not at all. In fact, I'd say the crisis has galvanised it.


I have the impression, that the corona crisis, with the resulting consequences of the lockdown, as well as the rising crime rate, the rising food and gas prices due to the ukraine conflict, the rising houseprices, mass immigration put pressure on the liberal system that is making bold steps in terms of fighting against white supremacy, for LGBATQ+ and forgein interests. There seems to be a disconnect between what the liberal ruling class does and what the overall population is concerned with.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> In my opening post I worte about the attention that Taiwan gets, and how the USA and China have contrasting views.


Ah well, it's complicated. Let me make it as brief as I can, as I'm also working.

The truth is, China right now does NOT have the military strength to invade Taiwan without burning it to the ground and massive losses, which would completely defeat the point of the invasion, since they want to annex Taiwan and incorporate their technological discoveries - plus there is the fact that Taiwanese and Chinese are not hostile to each other, so a massacre of taiwanese people and chinese army would NOT go well with the populace, and there's a billion of them, and they can easily overpower any domestic police force;
Therefore, about Taiwan right now there is a lot of posturing and gestures like giving pandas to taiwanese zoos, but I think it's unlikely an invasion will happen, therefore the USA 

Concerning the relationship between China and Russia, this is my belief:
If China could, they'd leave Putin to the Americans as fast as the speed of light and refuse to touch them with a bargepole;
Unfortunately, they cannot because the Chinese gov has spent FAR too much time and soft power being Putin's chums, therefore if they did so this would be another creak in the Party's reputation of peerlessness, which is the only reason they are still in power, so I think they'll taper down support to a minimum to ensure they don't upset USA or Russia, but without any meaningfulness either.





Creamu said:


> Could you elaborate, I would really liek to learn more about the situation there.


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

The conservative party of the UK is the perfect representation of an Elite completely detached from reality, The article says that while the UK was in COVID lockdown the Prime Minister and his entourage were having wild parties, with rivers of booze to the point people were vomiting.
10 years ago, this would have led to mass resignations, a GE and the Tories never in power for two decades. But in Post-Brexit UK, after the brainwash carried out by Rupert Murdoch and Putin, this behaviour is almost justified, which is nuts.
Of course, the fault of this lies with the English, rather than the British, because they have a secret obsession for being ruled by rich white men with posh accents.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> There seems to be a disconnect between what the liberal ruling class does and what the overall population is concerned with.


I can't speak for everyone, but this isn't necessarily true. This is what the right-wing press would have you believe, however, as part of culture wars.


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Don't you feel that european liberal idealism is having a identy crisis at the moment?


I don't think so. I would say the opposite, as our buddy here has already pointed out. In exchange for what ideas? Neo-communist? Neo-Nazi? Absurd. There is no alternative. Freedom is in the DNA of Europeans, and they would not give it up for anything in the world. Other ideologies will never appeal to the masses. The rest is talk.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

I would also like to add one thing about Russia: Putin has been murdering dissenting high profile oligarch. But this will backfire for two reasons.

First, those people are not replaceable. They're capable, educated, experienced and competent, his yesmen are largely imbeciles put there because of loyalty, not competence, with no real experience.

Secondly, those people are rich AND powerful, and I sincerely doubt they will stand-by waiting to be murdered.


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> ... and I sincerely doubt they will stand-by waiting to be murdered.


Sure. But the Russian government is a den of spies, traitors, liars, sneaky, etc. and the only way to escape is to flee hiding abroad or pretend to be dead, simulate your own funeral and then change identity ...


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## Creamu (May 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Ah well, it's complicated. Let me make it as brief as I can, as I'm also working.
> 
> The truth is, China right now does NOT have the military strength to invade Taiwan without burning it to the ground and massive losses, which would completely defeat the point of the invasion, since they want to annex Taiwan and incorporate their technological discoveries - plus there is the fact that Taiwanese and Chinese are not hostile to each other, so a massacre of taiwanese people and chinese army would NOT go well with the populace, and there's a billion of them, and they can easily overpower any domestic police force;


Good point.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Therefore, about Taiwan right now there is a lot of posturing and gestures like giving pandas to taiwanese zoos, but I think it's unlikely an invasion will happen, therefore the USA


I hope you are right!


Dark_Ansem said:


> Concerning the relationship between China and Russia, this is my belief:
> If China could, they'd leave Putin to the Americans as fast as the speed of light and refuse to touch them with a bargepole;
> Unfortunately, they cannot because the Chinese gov has spent FAR too much time and soft power being Putin's chums, therefore if they did so this would be another creak in the Party's reputation of peerlessness, which is the only reason they are still in power, so I think they'll taper down support to a minimum to ensure they don't upset USA or Russia, but without any meaningfulness either.


Okay, that sounds good.



Dark_Ansem said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking
> 
> The conservative party of the UK is the perfect representation of an Elite completely detached from reality, The article says that while the UK was in COVID lockdown the Prime Minister and his entourage were having wild parties, with rivers of booze to the point people were vomiting.


That makes them look like they tell their populus things they themselves don't believe in, and force them to comply to rules they themselves don't think they are worth following.


Dark_Ansem said:


> 10 years ago, this would have led to mass resignations, a GE and the Tories never in power for two decades. But in Post-Brexit UK, after the brainwash carried out by Rupert Murdoch and Putin, this behaviour is almost justified, which is nuts.


Rupert Murdoch and Putin are brainwashing the UK population?


Dark_Ansem said:


> Of course, the fault of this lies with the English, rather than the British, because they have a secret obsession for being ruled by rich white men with posh accents.


Yes, the bankers.


Dark_Ansem said:


> I can't speak for everyone, but this isn't necessarily true. This is what the right-wing press would have you believe, however, as part of culture wars.


I see, I only look at it from an outside perspective.


Nikokaro said:


> I don't think so. I would say the opposite, as our buddy here has already pointed out. In exchange for what ideas? Neo-communist? Neo-Nazi? Absurd. There is no alternative. Freedom is in the DNA of Europeans, and they would not give it up for anything in the world. Other ideologies will never appeal to the masses. The rest is talk.


But why did they vote for explicitly totalitarian regimes in the last century then?


Dark_Ansem said:


> I would also like to add one thing about Russia: Putin has been murdering dissenting high profile oligarch. But this will backfire for two reasons.
> 
> First, those people are not replaceable. They're capable, educated and competent, his yesmen are largely imbeciles put there because of loyalty, not competence.
> 
> Secondly, those people are rich AND powerful, and I sincerely doubt they will stand-by waiting to be murdered.


I personally believe that when oligarchs get so powerful that they could contra a dictator, they themselves have been to powerful to begin with.

I will now do some work, and may not respond. I will come to your post evenutally. Thank you for your contribution!


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## Dark_Ansem (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> That makes them look like they tell their populus things they themselves don't believe in, and force them to comply to rules they themselves don't think they are worth following.


AKA "One Rule for Us, One Rule for Them".


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> But why did they vote for explicitly totalitarian regimes in the last century then?


If you are referring to Fascism and Nazism, in both cases a handful of men took power with violence, explicit or threatened, and relying on the fear and selfishness of the masses. Like Communism, it was an experiment that man had to do himself, to realize its intrinsic madness and its counterproductive results for everyone. I am optimistic, today I don't think it will be possible to fall into the same mistakes.


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## Nikokaro (May 25, 2022)

If I may add a few words about the title of the thread, Europe will do everything to avoid a direct war with Russia: it has too much to lose. Bringing the rawness, violence and ruthlessness of the conflict into our home, losing our loved ones, our property, and then the rape, the humiliation, the torture, the corpes, the limbs and the vivid blood on the walls: see our precious and artistic Berlin , Paris, Madrid, Rome bombed and razed to the ground: even the simple idea makes our rulers shake the legs, and they are more likely to bow down to the enemy than to witness this terrible sight.

While russian leaders have no conscientious scruples in sacrificing even their own citizens, mere numbers, in the name of the superior Russian patriotic ideology, western rulers are imbued with a widespread moral, humanitarian and empathic sensitivity that rejects the suffering and sacrifice of even an innocent person in the name of past traditions and abstract notions, but also, more selfishly, do not tolerate the idea of losing the well-being, comforts and quiet to which them are addicted, and which them cannot do without.

PS. Forgive my poor english. By now you will have understood that I am not a native english speaker (writer).


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Nikokaro said:


> If you are referring to Fascism and Nazism, in both cases a handful of men took power with violence, explicit or threatened, and relying on the fear and selfishness of the masses.


That is actually not true.


Nikokaro said:


> Like Communism, it was an experiment that man had to do himself, to realize its intrinsic madness and its counterproductive results for everyone. I am optimistic, today I don't think it will be possible to fall into the same mistakes.


I think we might be in for a suprsie the books they were burning were to a large extend about transgender operations. There are alot of parallels accumilating. Lets hope for the best.


Nikokaro said:


> If I may add a few words about the title of the thread, Europe will do everything to avoid a direct war with Russia: it has too much to lose. Bringing the rawness, violence and ruthlessness of the conflict into our home, losing our loved ones, our property, and then the rape, the humiliation, the torture, the corpes, the limbs and the vivid blood on the walls: see our precious and artistic Berlin , Paris, Madrid, Rome bombed and razed to the ground: even the simple idea makes our rulers shake the legs, and they are more likely to bow down to the enemy than to witness this terrible sight.


I agree. I don't quite know what a world war in this day in age looks like in detail at all. If China grabs Tainwan, the USA as the world police will be so humiliated, that it might strike against its own population.


Nikokaro said:


> While russian leaders have no conscientious scruples in sacrificing even their own citizens, mere numbers, in the name of the superior Russian patriotic ideology, western rulers are imbued with a widespread moral, humanitarian and empathic sensitivity that rejects the suffering and sacrifice of even an innocent person in the name of past traditions and abstract notions, but also, more selfishly, do not tolerate the idea of losing the well-being, comforts and quiet to which them are addicted, and which them cannot do without.


What about the massacre and allaround pointless wars in the middle-east?


Nikokaro said:


> PS. Forgive my poor english. By now you will have understood that I am not a native english speaker (writer).


No problem at all


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## Nikokaro (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> ...That is actually not true.


I explained myself wrongly. What I meant was this: while Hitler's party initially amassed support by appealing to the national interests of the working class and fears (toward Bolshevism and Marxism, strangers, outsiders, those who are different...), once in power it changed its face and twisted its initial program, establishing a dictatorship and stifling all freedom, sowing terror among the people, eliminating political opponents, Jews, homosexuals, the mentally ill, etc.
All this far beyond the interests and intentions of the majority of the German people.

Sorry if I went off topic. This is to reiterate that supporting the ideas of the "extreme right" (neo-Nazis, neo-fascism or the like) would mean preparing to give up one's freedom (of thought and action) and well-being sacrificed in favor of discipline, order and the national interest, and no sane people want that, especially in this day and age.


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## Viri (May 26, 2022)

Does anyone else remember when some people believed WW3 would be triggered, because the US drone striked a general in Iran? Things seemed so much more calm back then.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Viri said:


> Does anyone else remember when some people believed WW3 would be triggered, because the US drone striked a general in Iran? Things seemed so much more calm back then.


I don't recall that ever being a cause for WW3? And he really was a nasty POS


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Nikokaro said:


> I explained myself wrongly. What I meant was this: while Hitler's party initially amassed support by appealing to the national interests of the working class and fears (toward Bolshevism and Marxism, strangers, outsiders, those who are different...), once in power it changed its face and twisted its initial program, establishing a dictatorship and stifling all freedom, sowing terror among the people, eliminating political opponents, Jews, homosexuals, the mentally ill, etc.
> All this far beyond the interests and intentions of the majority of the German people.
> 
> Sorry if I went off topic. This is to reiterate that supporting the ideas of the "extreme right" (neo-Nazis, neo-fascism or the like) would mean preparing to give up one's freedom (of thought and action) and well-being sacrificed in favor of discipline, order and the national interest, and no sane people want that, especially in this day and age.


I see your point. To be fair though, there are people who would prefer to have the option to say whatever they want about jews, homosexuals, transgender people, people of color etc. Yet there is a climate, that people fear to share their opinion and if people feel restricted to even share their thoughts, how much freedom is there really.


Viri said:


> Does anyone else remember when some people believed WW3 would be triggered, because the US drone striked a general in Iran? Things seemed so much more calm back then.


yes things are getting increasingly unhinged. Iran is another important piece on the stage of world conflict.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> I see your point. To be fair though, there are people who would prefer to have the option to say whatever they want about jews, homosexuals, transgender people, people of color etc. Yet there is a climate, that people fear to share their opinion and if people feel restricted to even share their thoughts, how much freedom is there really.


You're mixing up freedom of speech with freedom from consequences. The former always exist. The latter does NOT need to exist, because being a bitch and spreading hate are not behaviours that should be tolerated, since we have seen the consequences of that, in the not so distant past.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> You're mixing up freedom of speech with freedom from consequences. The former always exist. The latter does NOT need to exist, because being a bitch and spreading hate are not behaviours that should be tolerated, since we have seen the consequences of that, in the not so distant past.


It is not the american conception of freedom of speech, I dont believe that americans for example feel as passionate for those issues than the issue of freedom of speech. Look at it from the persepctive of people that dont share your sensibilities, they might see you as the mirror image of what you oppose.


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## Viri (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I don't recall that ever being a cause for WW3? And he really was a nasty POS


He indeed was, and he deserved the death that he got. But after he got droned, people online were freaking out like WW3 was about to happen. Iran attacked a US embassy, and shot down a Ukrainian flight, that had 0 US citizens, that took off from their own air port, and denied it at first. That was such an odd time.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> It is not the american conception of freedom of speech, I dont believe that americans for example feel as passionate for those issues than the issue of freedom of speech. Look at it from the persepctive of people that dont share your sensibilities, they might see you as the mirror image of what you oppose.


It's not about "sharing my sensibilities", it's about whether one is right or wrong. Relativism can only go so far.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> It's not about "sharing my sensibilities", it's about whether one is right or wrong. Relativism can only go so far.


Doesnt sound very tolerant, why dont you consider the perspective of others?


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Doesnt sound very tolerant, why dont you consider the perspective of others?


Because their perspective is wrong. Hating gay people because they're gay is fucked up, and doesn't belong in society. Last time someone went on claiming to hate jews because they're "god-killers", World War 2 happened.

While everyone is entitled to their perspective, perspectives themselves are NOT equal.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Because their perspective is wrong. Hating gay people because they're gay is fucked up, and doesn't belong in society. Last time someone went on claiming to hate jews because they're "god-killers", World War 2 happened.
> 
> While everyone is entitled to their perspective, perspectives themselves are NOT equal.


Okay, so what is your suggestion is to be done to people that simply dont see things your way.

To get back on topic the afgahns for example did fight a long and hard war to oppose things like those values and the end of it was an ambaressment to the USA on the world stage that might have contributed to Putin feeling morilized enough to go for Ukraine.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> To get back on topic the afgahns for example did fight a long and hard war to oppose things like those values and the end of it was an ambaressment to the USA on the world stage that might have contributed to Putin feeling morilized enough to go for Ukraine.


Not a really relevant example is it? Afghans were militarily invaded, which is nowhere close to "disagreeing about gay people".


Creamu said:


> Okay, so what is your suggestion is to be done to people that simply dont see things your way.


My way? I'm a nobody with no political responsibilities whatsoever. Which gives me both powerlessness and freedom.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Not a really relevant example is it? Afghans were militarily invaded, which is nowhere close to "disagreeing about gay people".


Well they were taking down the rainbow flag as america left and change the law around sexuality quite drastically.


Dark_Ansem said:


> My way? I'm a nobody with no political responsibilities whatsoever. Which gives me both powerlessness and freedom.


I mean what should be done to people who simply see freedom of speech as a higher value as the subjects discussed above, in you view.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Well they were taking down the rainbow flag as america left and change the law around sexuality quite drastically.


They chose the taliban regime, and it's already biting them in their ass. They made their bed, they'd suffer. And they will. It's a failure of the western rightwing powers, so let them own it.


Creamu said:


> I mean what should be done to people who simply see freedom of speech as a higher value as the subjects discussed above, in you view.


but you see, their freedom of speech is not in peril. No one is gagging them, cutting their tongue or preventing them from sharing their opinion. But their freedom ENDS where the freedom of others BEGINS. Or are you saying that the right of people to vomit hate is more important than the right of people to NOT have hate vomited on them?


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> They chose the taliban regime, and it's already biting them in their ass. They made their bed, they'd suffer. And they will. It's a failure of the western rightwing powers, so let them own it.


I agree. Weirdly the republican party starts to go for LGBTQ+ positions leaving a huge vacuum on the right of them.


Dark_Ansem said:


> but you see, their freedom of speech is not in peril. No one is gagging them, cutting their tongue or preventing them from sharing their opinion.


Yes they have learned that this is ineffective in the long run from what happen 100 years ago in russia, fortunatly.


Dark_Ansem said:


> But their freedom ENDS where the freedom of others BEGINS.


That is true, not everyone will have a place in any order. Thats were I see instability and conflict rising, if it should turn out to be that masses of people have other concerns than those discussed.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Or are you saying that the right of people to vomit hate is more important than the right of people to NOT have hate vomited on them?


I do think thats the spirit of the american people and one reason why they left europe.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> I do think thats the spirit of the american people and one reason why they left europe.


The "Americans" who left Europe were in fact the bigots of the British empire, sent there because they were seditious and too radical even for one of the most brutal empires of history.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> The "Americans" who left Europe were in fact the bigots of the British empire, sent there because they were seditious and too radical even for one of the most brutal empires of history.


I'm not sure I get what you are saying here.

In general the insistance of these historically and globally noval positions as right reminds me of the protestant spirit that led the biritsh empire to go into Africa. Everywhere the american emipre sets its foot, the rainbow flag rises. That is great for a nieche of the world population, good for them. Is it great for the local populations, the Afghans seem to think not. The rainbow flag gets a character of global domination of the world population. The moral impitus of right and wrong worldviews is a colonial one. The inability to reconsider positions might be the essence of the world confilct to come.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Everywhere the american emipre sets its foot, the rainbow flag rises.


What are you talking about?


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> What are you talking about?


If the global banking system is established in a region it comes with that flag.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> If the global banking system is established in a region it comes with that flag.


Are you feeling all right? Because you keep saying things that are unrelated with each other.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Are you feeling all right? Because you keep saying things that are unrelated with each other.


I'm fine. To understand world confilct and world war it is important to understand the nature of territorial disputes and domination. Look at the appearance of the global banking system and the occurance of the rainbow flag.


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## Xzi (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> If the global banking system is established in a region it comes with that flag.


Chill with the homophobia.  The rainbow flag should not be the first that comes to mind for you when you think "evil flag."  Start with the swastika and confederate flag, to name a couple.  And the American empire does still stand for those same things in some subtle and some not-so-subtle ways, so you could very much include the stars and stripes on that list as well.

World war 3?  Probably not gonna happen with a global economy.  What will happen, likely by the 2050s, are resource wars over drinking water and farmable land.  They just won't likely be fought between major world powers until later down the line when things get real desperate.  2070s maybe.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Chill with the homophobia.


Where have I said anything that could be construde in this direction?


Xzi said:


> The rainbow flag should not be the first that comes to mind for you when you think "evil flag."


You are putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is this:


Creamu said:


> To understand world confilct and world war it is important to understand the nature of territorial disputes and domination. Look at the appearance of the global banking system and the occurance of the rainbow flag.





Xzi said:


> Start with the swastika and confederate flag, to name a couple.


There has been plenty of that, and I don't want to beat on flags.


Xzi said:


> And the American empire does still stand for those same things in some subtle and some not-so-subtle ways, so you could very much include the stars and stripes on that list as well.


I see how the american attribution can be confusing. What I am talking about is wall street colonialism.


Xzi said:


> World war 3?  Probably not gonna happen with a global economy.  What will happen, likely by the 2050s, are resource wars over drinking water and farmable land.  They just won't likely be fought between major world powers until later down the line when things get real desperate.  2070s maybe.


If you can see it coming it might be closer than your estimation, but you might be right, I have no reason to doubt your position.


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## Xzi (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> You are putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is this:


What you're saying is beyond ridiculous.  The gays don't control the global banking system and neither do the Jews.  It's corporations and billionaires that exert more control over it than anybody, plain and simple.  So if you want someone to blame for the shitty state of things, blame Rupert Murdoch, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk.  You don't have to go searching for some nameless, faceless shadow figure who's puppeteering it all, because these dickweeds will spit straight in your face if given the chance.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Where have I said anything that could be construde in this direction?


There's a certain trend of you to talk about "gay flags" and something as if it were a very important topic.


Xzi said:


> What you're saying is beyond ridiculous.  The gays don't control the global banking system and neither do the Jews.  It's corporations and billionaires that exert more control over it than anybody, plain and simple.  So if you want someone to blame for the shitty state of things, blame Rupert Murdoch, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk.  You don't have to go searching for some nameless, faceless shadow figure who's puppeteering it all, because these dickweeds will spit straight in your face if given the chance.


Rupert Murdoch is an enemy of humanity. I don't know if you're following australian press after the election, but the murdoch media did NOT take it well.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> What you're saying is beyond ridiculous.  The gays don't control the global banking system and neither do the Jews.


What a weird suggestion.


Xzi said:


> It's corporations and billionaires that exert more control over it than anybody, plain and simple.


True, plutocrats.


Xzi said:


> So if you want someone to blame for the shitty state of things, blame Rupert Murdoch, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk.


I do.


Xzi said:


> You don't have to go searching for some nameless, faceless shadow figure who's puppeteering it all, because these dickweeds will spit straight in your face if given the chance.


Where is this coming from? Can you point me to anything that I have said, that claims anything like that?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Where is this coming from? Can you point me to anything that I have said, that claims anything like that?


Your posts about the "global banking system raising gay flags".


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> There's a certain trend of you to talk about "gay flags" and something as if it were a very important topic.


I do believe the occrance of the rainbow flag is signifcant and to call it a "gay flag" is not understanding the meaning of the flag, which is in fact far more complex than that.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Rupert Murdoch is an enemy of humanity. I don't know if you're following australian press after the election, but the murdoch media did NOT take it well.


I don't. But I have no reason to doubt what you are saying.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You don't have to go searching for some nameless, faceless shadow figure who's puppeteering it all, because these dickweeds will spit straight in your face if given the chance.





> Where is this coming from? Can you point me to anything that I have said, that claims anything like that?





Dark_Ansem said:


> Your posts about the "global banking system raising gay flags".


They are not faceless at all. Please dont quote me saying "gay flag" thats not my understanding of it.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Everywhere the american emipre sets its foot, the rainbow flag rises.


But you DID say it.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> But you DID say it.


The rainbow flag is not a "gay flag" as you call it. It is far more complex than that.


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## Xzi (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> They are not faceless at all. Please dont quote me saying "gay flag" thats not my understanding of it.


Perhaps you should say what you mean then, and not fall back on symbology unless you're going to use the universally accepted meanings behind those symbols.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

> Perhaps you should say what you mean then, and not fall back on symbology unless you're going to use the universally accepted meanings behind those symbols.



The rainbow flag is a useful symbol that by mainstream defintion does not mean "gay flag".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> The rainbow flag is a useful symbol that by mainstream defintion does not mean "gay flag".
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag


Its usage by the gay community is the most recognised one. The only other one is it as a peace flag.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Its usage by the gay community is the most recognised one. The only other one is it as a peace flag.


One popular usage of the flag was "gay pride". I would argue that the recent association is more with the LGBTQ+ community. There are conflicts in the lesbian community between lesbians and transgender people, so it's not really a flag of the homosexual community as a whole either. Indicated by the addition of Q and + it also might have a meaning of progression. If you look at the wikipedia article there are other flags that look very similar.











Why is this relevant for the subject at hand?

I would argue that the people who design flags for such successful movements are highly intelligent and educated, and understand that symbols need to have deeper meanings rooted in culture, history or even religion.

So why is the rainbow flag appearing alongside with the appearance of global banking? I have no clue. All I am sure is, that the meaning is more complex than what you have suggested. Is there a concious connection the actors of the global banking system see there? I don't know.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> So why is the rainbow flag appearing alongside with the appearance of global banking? I have no clue


Would you mind providing 4 examples od)f this?


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Would you mind providing 4 examples od)f this?


https://www.westernjournal.com/us-embassies-fly-lgbt-flag-biden-admins-blessing-including-vatican/



> *United States* itself in total counts near 163 *Embassies* and 93 Consulates spread all over the world.


https://findanyanswer.com/how-many-us-embassies-are-there


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 26, 2022)

The claim that European countries are doing everything to avoid escalation is ridiculous. They are doing everything but the final step of active war participation.

Does anyone remember when Russia sent tanks, equipment and volunteers into the Donbass? Almost every European media outlet called it an invasion and a war.
European countries are doing the same with Ukraine, times a hundred. 
According to legal experts even training Ukrainian soldiers could be regarded as war participation. In the end, it does not matter what legal experts say. The Russian government could see it as such.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The claim that European countries are doing everything to avoid escalation is ridiculous. They are doing everything but the final step of active war participation.
> 
> Does anyone remember when Russia sent tanks, equipment and volunteers into the Donbass? Almost every European media outlet called it an invasion and a war.
> European countries are doing the same with Ukraine, times a hundred.
> According to legal experts even training Ukrainian soldiers could be regarded as war participation. In the end, it does not matter what legal experts say. The Russian government could see it as such.


I agree completely. Its a very dangerous game played on very thin legalese assumptions.


Creamu said:


> https://www.westernjournal.com/us-embassies-fly-lgbt-flag-biden-admins-blessing-including-vatican/
> 
> 
> https://findanyanswer.com/how-many-us-embassies-are-there


These are not "instances of the global banking system". These are US embassies. Diplomatic missions. And I agree completely with the gesture. Even if it's laughable coming from the US.


----------



## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> These are not "instances of the global banking system". These are US embassies. Diplomatic missions. And I agree completely with the gesture. Even if it's laughable coming from the US.


Well you get them as a package or not at all, and with not at all you might very well face serious hostile moves.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The claim that European countries are doing everything to avoid escalation is ridiculous. They are doing everything but the final step of active war participation.


Yes. In addition it is part of modern warfare to orchestrate a scenario where your opposing side is forcing you to take military action, in order to claim moral superiority. In the end, the victor gets to set the narrative.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Does anyone remember when Russia sent tanks, equipment and volunteers into the Donbass? Almost every European media outlet called it an invasion and a war.
> European countries are doing the same with Ukraine, times a hundred.
> According to legal experts even training Ukrainian soldiers could be regarded as war participation. In the end, it does not matter what legal experts say. The Russian government could see it as such.


Blame your enemy of what you are doing.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Well you get them as a package or not at all, and with not at all you might very well face serious hostile moves.


Such as?


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Such as?


War


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> War



An example, rather than a song, would be preferable.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> An example, rather than a song, would be preferable.


https://www.pambazuka.org/pan-africanism/let’s-never-forget-why-muammar-gaddafi-was-killed


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> https://www.pambazuka.org/pan-africanism/let’s-never-forget-why-muammar-gaddafi-was-killed


Sorry, this looks a bit crackpot. But I agree that gaddafi should have been left alone.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Sorry, this looks a bit crackpot. But I agree that gaddafi should have been left alone.


If you dont like the article I have found you are free to research it yourself. Gaddafi was literally killed because he wanted to build his own bank.


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## Dark_Ansem (May 26, 2022)

Creamu said:


> If you dont like the article I have found you are free to research it yourself. Gaddafi was literally killed because he wanted to build his own bank.


Gaddafi was overthrown because he was quite close to providing energy to the wrong People, ending their reliance on French and Russian supply.


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## Creamu (May 26, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Gaddafi was overthrown because he was quite close to providing energy to the wrong People, ending their reliance on French and Russian supply.


And he wanted to build his own banking system.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jun 1, 2022)

Zelensky stating the painfully obvious. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ax-russia-b2091796.html?utm_source=reddit.com


----------



## Creamu (Jun 1, 2022)




----------



## Creamu (Jun 25, 2022)

Creamu said:


> One popular usage of the flag was "gay pride". I would argue that the recent association is more with the LGBTQ+ community. There are conflicts in the lesbian community between lesbians and transgender people, so it's not really a flag of the homosexual community as a whole either. Indicated by the addition of Q and + it also might have a meaning of progression. If you look at the wikipedia article there are other flags that look very similar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had to think of this thread:


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 27, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Had to think of this thread:



More nonsense, obviously.


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## Creamu (Jun 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> More nonsense, obviously.


That is obviously entertainment. What the creator intentions are, I have no idea. But I share his believe that the flag will undergo further transformation. What will it become? We will see, if the american system is healthy enough to function long enough.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 27, 2022)

Creamu said:


> That is obviously entertainment.


No, it's dog-whistling and hate-mongering.


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## Creamu (Jun 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> No, it's dog-whistling and hate-mongering.


What is it dog-whistling and who are the dogs?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 27, 2022)

Creamu said:


> What is it dog-whistling and who are the dogs?


I refuse to believe you are that dense.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I refuse to believe you are that dense.


Okay, then I refuse to believe dog-whistle-theory.


----------



## Maximumbeans (Jun 27, 2022)

Creamu said:


> What is it dog-whistling and who are the dogs?


Dog whistling is using language that will land on the people you're aiming for (the 'dogs') without registering with anybody else. Think about how you can blow an ultrasonic whistle and dogs will hear and respond to it but people won't. Same sort of concept.
I could make a post loaded with language that, say, 4chan regulars would understand but your average Facebook user wouldn't. I could encourage all sorts of behaviour under the noses of people who don't get what I'm saying and that would effectively be dog whistling.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

We are already in WWIII, except it is an information war, not a kinetic war. There will be local skirmishes like Ukraine currently and Taiwan in the near future, but nothing like what we've seen in the past.


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## Creamu (Jun 27, 2022)

Thank you for your clarification. It is quite useful for me.


Maximumbeans said:


> Dog whistling is using language that will land on the people you're aiming for (the 'dogs') without registering with anybody else. Think about how you can blow an ultrasonic whistle and dogs will hear and respond to it but people won't. Same sort of concept.
> I could make a post loaded with language that, say, 4chan regulars would understand but your average Facebook user wouldn't. I could encourage all sorts of behaviour under the noses of people who don't get what I'm saying and that would effectively be dog whistling.


Very interesting. I have come up with this concept in the context of art. What makes a piece camp, kitsch and what makes a piece of true art? It is the multilayered messanging of a piece, that can even signal one thing to one set of the audiance and the abosulte contrary to another set.

How is this achieved? When you look at this music video of Leonard Cohen for example, you'll see that he is extremely static in his performance. The movement of him is reduced to the bare minimum. Except for one part, where he covers on of his eyes.



This is a clear deviation from the rest of the performance, and therefore quite clearly deliberate.

My research has shown that this is quite a common practice in the entertainment industry, and I come across it on a daily basis:










Or a different example is Vulcan/Hephaestus/Fire(light) (amoung other motives that cluster in the god Vulcan like the architect but also motives of Saturn)








You see the glowing chest?

Now, is there a connection? And if yes, is it made consciously? I'd say no if you can't clearly demonstrate it.

So called 'Dog-Whistling' can be pointed out everywhere. The important question is: *Who is signaling what to whom? *And even more improtantly:

*Is there proof?*


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jun 27, 2022)

There might be a WWIII in the future and maybe a Second America Civil War, or just a complete collapse of America. Future is unpredictable so it's best to take it a day at a time sometimes.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> We are already in WWIII, except it is an information war, not a kinetic war. There will be local skirmishes like Ukraine currently and Taiwan in the near future, but nothing like what we've seen in the past.


If you count like this, then we would already be in WWIV.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 28, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Okay, then I refuse to believe dog-whistle-theory.


That's because you're a tinfoil hat crackpot who believes EHS is real.


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## SRKTiberious (Jun 30, 2022)

If only you can hear dog-whistles everywhere... maybe you're the dog.


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## Maximumbeans (Jun 30, 2022)

SRKTiberious said:


> If only you can hear dog-whistles everywhere... maybe you're the dog.


Mmyeah, which sort of sounds clever enough, but then you can speak French without being French. I can see what somebody is trying to hide without being the target audience. I like the turn of phrase though.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 30, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> Mmyeah, which sort of sounds clever enough, but then you can speak French without being French. I can see what somebody is trying to hide without being the target audience. I like the turn of phrase though.


Every piece of art is a dog-whistle. The question is can you demonstrate your case and does it reveal anything real/interesting.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Every piece of art is a dog-whistle


No it's not. Andy Warhol or Van Gogh, for example, aren't dog-whistling.


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## Maximumbeans (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Every piece of art is a dog-whistle. The question is can you demonstrate your case and does it reveal anything real/interesting.


The term doesn't apply to any hidden meaning, it's meant in a specifically political context.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> No it's not. Andy Warhol or Van Gogh, for example, aren't dog-whistling.


They are. Andy Warhol is a much deeper actor than his tomato soup prints might leave you to believe.


Maximumbeans said:


> The term doesn't apply to any hidden meaning, it's meant in a specifically political context.


I would challange this. The term does reference a natural phenomenon, and there for should not be coopted only by political thinkers. Dog whistling you have in religion, art, culture. It is all around us. To criticize only political actors like this is dishonest.


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## Maximumbeans (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> I would challange this. The term does reference a natural phenomenon, and there for should not be coopted only by political thinkers. Dog whistling you have in religion, art, culture. It is all around us. To criticize only political actors like this is dishonest.


I don't know what you're trying to say, the term specifically applies to political contexts. Don't forget that you didn't even know what it meant until I explained it to you. I get that you're trying to expand the meaning in a philosophical sense but it doesn't reference a natural phenomenon, it just means using political rhetoric in a way that's deliberately obfuscated from the layperson. I'm not saying hidden meaning doesn't exist in other contexts but the term dog-whistling, if we're keeping it semantic, is purely for political rhetoric.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> They are. Andy Warhol is a much deeper actor than his tomato soup prints might leave you to believe.
> 
> I would challange this. The term does reference a natural phenomenon, and there for should not be coopted only by political thinkers. Dog whistling you have in religion, art, culture. It is all around us. To criticize only political actors like this is dishonest.


You're talking nonsense. Dog-whistling has a very specific meaning, the hidden meanings of art predate that by several centuries.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 30, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> I don't know what you're trying to say, the term specifically applies to political contexts.


Specifically it applies to blowing a whistle to get a reaction from a dog. This phenomenon can and should be applied to religion as well.


Maximumbeans said:


> Don't forget that you didn't even know what it meant until I explained it to you.


I did, I asked:


Creamu said:


> What is it dog-whistling and who are the dogs?





Maximumbeans said:


> I get that you're trying to expand the meaning in a philosophical sense but it doesn't reference a natural phenomenon,


The whistle and the dog are natural phenomenons.


Maximumbeans said:


> it just means using political rhetoric in a way that's deliberately obfuscated from the layperson.


What about rhetoric that hides itself behind religion but in reality is political, wouldn't that be even more of a dog whistle?


Maximumbeans said:


> I'm not saying hidden meaning doesn't exist in other contexts but the term dog-whistling, if we're keeping it semantic, is purely for political rhetoric.


This might be the current agreement, but I want to challange it, because it blinds people even more, by not seeing the bigger picture. This might very well be the result of deliberate discoursive manoveuring as well.


Dark_Ansem said:


> You're talking nonsense. Dog-whistling has a very specific meaning, the hidden meanings of art predate that by several centuries.


So does political 'dog-whistling'. It's way older than the term.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> So does political 'dog-whistling'. It's way older than the term.


Except that there was no way to do it until mass media came into existence, so yeah.


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## Creamu (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Except that there was no way to do it until mass media came into existence, so yeah.


The ancient greeks had the oracles. There was major dog-whistling going on there. There were open speeches (the forum) and theater with political content. Statues, paintings etc.


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## Maximumbeans (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Specifically it applies to blowing a whistle to get a reaction from a dog. This phenomenon can and should be applied to religion as well.


Yes in the _literal_ sense. The term we are talking about in this thread is a political term. We are obviously not talking about the act of blowing a whistle for a pet dog.


Creamu said:


> The whistle and the dog are natural phenomenons.


A manmade object is a natural phenomenon?


Creamu said:


> What about rhetoric that hides itself behind religion but in reality is political, wouldn't that be even more of a dog whistle?


Yes I suppose it could be, but then that's just leading back to politics so the term applies as-is anyway.

I think I understand what you're getting at, which is that the term shouldn't just be kept to politics because it can apply to so many other contexts, which is true. You could use it as such and nobody can tell you you're wrong for trying, because words change meanings all the time and find their way into wider applications, that much is true. However, that shift hasn't happened on a wider semantic scale yet. Maybe you could be the one to start it, who knows


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 30, 2022)

WWIII will never happen, because Russia and USA are not brave enough. They are super brave only against the small, poor and weak, like Ukraine, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Georgia, Cuba, and so on.

When the enemy is big and powerful, they crap in their pants, and their shit smells like propaganda.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 30, 2022)

Smaller countries could drag bigger ones into a World War (see WW1), esp. if they have nuclear weapons. If North Korea even tried to send a nuke to the US, the US would nuke North Korea, resulting in China and Russia joining in.


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## Creamu (Jun 30, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> A manmade object is a natural phenomenon?


Yes


Maximumbeans said:


> Yes I suppose it could be, but then that's just leading back to politics so the term applies as-is anyway.


In that case the point still stands that isolating a term like this to politics is misleading.


Maximumbeans said:


> I think I understand what you're getting at, which is that the term shouldn't just be kept to politics because it can apply to so many other contexts, which is true. You could use it as such and nobody can tell you you're wrong for trying, because words change meanings all the time and find their way into wider applications, that much is true. However, that shift hasn't happened on a wider semantic scale yet. Maybe you could be the one to start it, who knows


The people that have popularised this term are aware of what I am saying, and use it with their particular framing, because it steers attention away from deeper questions to hegelian back and forth, that is easily controlled. To solve issues means taking power at least to an extend, taking power means taking control of ones own discourse/narrative. If you stay in line you playing the game of someone else, not your own.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Smaller countries could drag bigger ones into a World War (see WW1), esp. if they have nuclear weapons. If North Korea even tried to send a nuke to the US, the US would nuke North Korea, resulting in China and Russia joining in.


USA and Russia from WW1 era were way different than today. Today neither Russia nor USA has the guts to face a big power. All they do are nuke tests. If a minor do something very stupid, the big power will invade, bomb or whatever, the minor's allies will warn for the last time, a dozen of times, and things will move on.

Russia will never ever conquer Poland, Lithuania or Hungary again, not because don't want it, but just don't have the guts. Same goes with USA on Cuba or Korea, and places not yet marked, like was Ukraine, are the ones subject to war and destruction.

In the end, and I hope I'm wrong, the next nuke to be used on a real attack will be from a superpower against itself (I mean civil war, extremists arising to power and other shit like that).


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## Maximumbeans (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Yes


No.


Creamu said:


> The people that have popularised this term are aware of what I am saying, and use it with their particular framing, because it steers attention away from deeper questions to hegelian back and forth, that is easily controlled. To solve issues means taking power at least to an extend, taking power means taking control of ones own discourse/narrative. If you stay in line you playing the game of someone else, not your own.


Creamu, dude, I really don't think it's that deep. It's just a term used as a shorthand to describe something people do. That's kind of it really.


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## Creamu (Jun 30, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> No.
> 
> Creamu, dude, I really don't think it's that deep. It's just a term used as a shorthand to describe something people do. That's kind of it really.








(Unfortunately there is no fitting like/reatcion emoji.)


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## Maximumbeans (Jun 30, 2022)

Creamu said:


> (Unfortunately there is no fitting like/reatcion emoji.)


I think you nailed it!


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 15, 2022)

We are already in World War III, except instead of missiles and tanks, we are in an informational war, which is also called irregular warfare. Militaries around the world have units dedicated to this very scenario.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 15, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> We are already in World War III, except instead of missiles and tanks, we are in an informational war, which is also called irregular warfare. Militaries around the world have units dedicated to this very scenario.


As long as the major powers attack each other through proxies, it is not a World War. The Vietnam war was much bloodier than the Ukraine war is today, but it was called Cold War.


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## Nothereed (Jul 16, 2022)

Simply put unlikely. It won't be on that scale, since the entire point of NATO is if you attack NATO, your going to deal with *all* of NATO. Every member working together Unilaterally. It's the reason why Russia can't start a armed conflict, not even a nuclear one. Ontop of the MAD principle, NATO countries would notice them arming for an attack, and one of many united states missiles bases would just launch.


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## Creamu (Jul 28, 2022)

'US Carrier Group Heads Towards Taiwan Ahead Of Potential Pelosi Trip After China Warns Of 'Forceful Response'

If House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) follows through on her planned trip to Taiwan, the US military will beef up security in case a 'mishap, misstep or misunderstanding' endangers her safety, AP reports.

While the trip is still an uncertainty, officials say that the military would 'increase its movement of forces and assets in the Indo-Pacific region,' though they declined to go into further detail - aside from noting that fighter jets, ships, surveillance assets and other military systems would be used 'to provide overlapping rings of protection' for her flight, and any time she spent on the ground.

[...]

Pelosi's trip comes at a time when China and the West have been engaging in risky "one-on-one" confrontations, as China has been trying to assert sweeping territorial claims over the region. "The incidents have included dangerously close fly-bys that force other pilots to swerve to avoid collisions, or harassment or obstruction of air and ship crews, including with blinding lasers or water cannon," according to the report, which adds that 'dozens' of such maneuvers have occurred in 2022 alone.

China, meanwhile, has long considered self-ruling Taiwan part of its territory, and has repeatedly raised the prospect of taking it by force. The US has maintained informal relations and defense ties with Taiwan.

The beefed up military cover comes after President Joe Biden said last week that Pelosi's trip is "not a good idea right now," and after China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian warned: "If the U.S. insists on going its own way and challenging China’s bottom line, it will surely be met with forceful responses," adding "All ensuing consequences shall be borne by the U.S."

[...]'

-ZeroHedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-warns-forceful-response-over-taiwan?EdNo=250


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 28, 2022)

Why can´t she fucking retire or die and then go.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jul 28, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Why can´t she fucking retire or die and then go.


Right after Donny and McConnell


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Right after Donny and McConnell


You think I care about them? Every reduction of WW3 saber-rattling is a good thing. The world came close to it several times (e.g. in 1962 after the Cuba missiles crisis had been resolved and at the end of the Cold War). One of those times might be one too many.
If there is a 1% chance provocational manuevers could lead to WW3, then constantly repeating them equates to playing with fire. It is not China sending warships and jets close to the US.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jul 28, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You think I care about them? Every reduction of WW3 saber-rattling is a good thing. The world came close to it several times (e.g. in 1962 after the Cuba missiles crisis had been resolved and at the end of the Cold War). One of those times might be one too many.
> If there is a 1% chance provocational manuevers could lead to WW3, then constantly repeating them equates to playing with fire. It is not China sending warships and jets close to the US.


Yeah, I still think the best course of action is the death of Putin, the war criminal.


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## Creamu (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Yeah, I still think the best course of action is the death of Putin, the war criminal.


They are just teasing him in hopes he will pull troops from Syria.


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Right after Donny and McConnell


Last I checked, the bad orange man averted World War III with China and North Korea for 4 years. Now they are both talking shit while Resident Sponge-Brain Shits-Pants eats ice cream and falls off his bike.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 28, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Last I checked, the bad orange man averted World War III with China and North Korea for 4 years. Now they are both talking shit while Resident Sponge-Brain Shits-Pants eats ice cream and falls off his bike.


Drumpfs administration wasn´t any better. Bolten recently proudly spoke of regime change he had been planning (of course CNN did not ask any more question about it; it´s not like they are journalists) and Pompeo lauded Pelosi for wanting to go Taiwan (they should meet there, he wrote).


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Drumpfs administration wasn´t any better. Bolten recently proudly spoke of regime change he had been planning (of course CNN did not ask any more question about it; it´s not like they are journalists) and Pompeo lauded Pelosi for wanting to to go Taiwan (they should meet there, he wrote).


No wars in Ukraine and no threats to Taiwan by China for four years. Abraham Accords in the middle east. Peace with North Korea. Yeah, that guy totally sucked, unless your goal is World War III, which it looks like is the goal of leftists nowadays based on the things the cult have been saying over the past 5 or 6 years.

There were no regime changes while Trump was president so Bolton obviously was not talking about that time period. More than likely, he was talking about his time in the Bush admin where there were regime changes around the world.

Pompeo is showing us the difference between how the Chinese treat former administration officials and the deep state that Nancy is a part of. Now ask yourself who is really in charge of the US. It doesn't look like the Big Guy is in charge of much at all.


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## CMDreamer (Jul 29, 2022)

Looks like all that "Cold War" US propaganda has payed its profits.

A Third World War is way too far from becoming a reality, even if there are so many interests involved and there's many people willing for that to happen; most actual world economies would not support such event and the higher benefit would be for those that already are on a very privileged position (a very few).

A global war is not just weapons, destruction and people being killed; there are huge economical and political interests involved, all of them do not obey justice or freedom.


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## sl0ps (Jul 29, 2022)

No. I know I pissed around GBA Temp, I played devils advocate and loved to be a contrarian, but we gotta just put this shit on ice in any and all ways possible.

 Very relevant. "Lets last to next Spring."


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## DCarnage (Jul 29, 2022)

I don't see WW3 in our future, I can see a civil war in the US way before that.


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## sl0ps (Jul 29, 2022)

DCarnage said:


> I don't see WW3 in our future, I can see a civil war in the US way before that.


NO, NO DAMMIT. Pleasseeee don't jinx us!


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## sombrerosonic (Jul 29, 2022)

EVERYONE GET INTO THE BUNKER ITS WORLD WAR 3!!!!!



But for real, Thats not going to happen, its most likely under 1% and will not happen, maybe it will be like Fallout and it will be caused by Oil/Water/Food Shortage causing tensions beween conterys. Most likely a Cival War in the US is your best bet.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 29, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> No wars in Ukraine and no threats to Taiwan by China for four years. Abraham Accords in the middle east. Peace with North Korea. Yeah, that guy totally sucked, unless your goal is World War III, which it looks like is the goal of leftists nowadays based on the things the cult have been saying over the past 5 or 6 years.
> 
> There were no regime changes while Trump was president so Bolton obviously was not talking about that time period. More than likely, he was talking about his time in the Bush admin where there were regime changes around the world.
> 
> Pompeo is showing us the difference between how the Chinese treat former administration officials and the deep state that Nancy is a part of. Now ask yourself who is really in charge of the US. It doesn't look like the Big Guy is in charge of much at all.


What do you mean by peace with North Korea? Trump met Kim a couple of times. North Korea was given nothing. There has never been a peace treaty. The temporary easing of tensions was probably thanks to the South Korean administration.

You are right about Bolton, but it was Trump´s fault to apoint maniacs like Bolton and Pompeo.

The Abraham Accords were signed against the backdrop of growing Iranian influence in the region. Israel has worked with Arabic countries before as long as it was about containing Iran. It has made the world no more safer than NATO. It´s like saying Russia and Japan signing a peace treaty one day in the presence of Chinese dominance and US isolationism is making the world safer. It does not.

Trump has been more of the same.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jul 29, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Last I checked, the bad orange man averted World War III with China and North Korea for 4 years. Now they are both talking shit while Resident Sponge-Brain Shits-Pants eats ice cream and falls off his bike.


EAsy to avert something that wasn't happening. Also, falling off his bike? That's because Trumpo is too fat to ride one.


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What do you mean by peace with North Korea? Trump met Kim a couple of times. North Korea was given nothing. There has never been a peace treaty. The temporary easing of tensions was probably thanks to the South Korean administration.
> 
> You are right about Bolton, but it was Trump´s fault to apoint maniacs like Bolton and Pompeo.
> 
> ...


Go back and read news stories from that time period and earlier. North Korea was testing nukes and firing long range missiles. That stopped. Do you have proof that South Korea eased tensions, because when you use the word probably, it means you have no proof. If they did ease tensions, why did North Korea just threaten us?

Bolton exposed himself. Show proof that Pompeo is a "maniac". You won't be able to.

You can keep believing that about the Abraham Accords, but what you believe is not true because you refuse to leave your echo chamber and read other sources of news.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 30, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Go back and read news stories from that time period and earlier. North Korea was testing nukes and firing long range missiles. That stopped. Do you have proof that South Korea eased tensions, because when you use the word probably, it means you have no proof. If they did ease tensions, why did North Korea just threaten us?


Missiles tests stopped during negotations but continued when they were fruitless, if I remember correctly. Anyway, Trump has achieved nothing but good optics when it came to North Korea. It speaks volume about the US that a president needs to be praised for not starting a new war in four years. It is well-known that president Moon was well-meaning regarding North Korea, e.g. they included North Korean players during the Winter Olympics for optics reasons alone (it was a disadvantage for the team). However, even president Moon presented its country as America´s bitch, which is why there cannot be substantial progress. I give you one thing: Trump really made a funny advertisement video for North Korea. A true salesman.


TraderPatTX said:


> Bolton exposed himself. Show proof that Pompeo is a "maniac". You won't be able to.


For instance, he encourages Pelosi to go to Taiwan and plans to do the same. I´d call that insane. The Taiwan issue (i.e. that the US recognizes there is only one China and Taiwan is part of China) is the foundation for their relationship. Plunging the world economy into chaos and potentially risking WW3 is pretty insane in my view. The US is free to recognize Taiwan independence, just as Russia is free to recognize Lugansk/Donetsk independence, but it severes the ties between China and the US.


TraderPatTX said:


> You can keep believing that about the Abraham Accords, but what you believe is not true because you refuse to leave your echo chamber and read other sources of news.


What part is not true? That it exists to contain Iran? It´s been widely discussed in Western mainstream media.
I read and watch American, German, Russian, and Chinese news (sometimes in their native language), to a lesser extend Arabic and English/Australian news. Some of it is mainstream, some of it is not. How about you? And how is it relevant other than an attempted ad hominem?


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Missiles tests stopped during negotations but continued when they were fruitless, if I remember correctly. Anyway, Trump has achieved nothing but good optics when it came to North Korea. It speaks volume about the US that a president needs to be praised for not starting a new war in four years. It is well-known that president Moon was well-meaning regarding North Korea, e.g. they included North Korean players during the Winter Olympics for optics reasons alone (it was a disadvantage for the team). However, even president Moon presented its country as America´s bitch, which is why there cannot be substantial progress. I give you one thing: Trump really made a funny advertisement video for North Korea. A true salesman.
> 
> For instance, he encourages Pelosi to go to Taiwan and plans to do the same. I´d call that insane. The Taiwan issue (i.e. that the US recognizes there is only one China and Taiwan is part of China) is the foundation for their relationship. Plunging the world economy into chaos and potentially risking WW3 is pretty insane in my view. The US is free to recognize Taiwan independence, just as Russia is free to recognize Lugansk/Donetsk independence, but it severes the ties between China and the US.
> 
> ...


The long range missile tests stopped until after Biden took office. What you remember were short range missile tests which are allowed. Name another modern president that didn't start a war. You won't be able to do that either.

Pompeo just went to Taiwan a couple of months ago and no threats were made. This is the second time China made threats because Pelosi is supposed to go there. Maybe she'll come down with Covid again to get out of going like she did last time.

It's just weird that as soon as the Accords were signed, Arabic nations started trading and forming official relationships with Israel and Saudi Arabia began allowing Israeli planes to cross their airspace. None of that was happening before. And now the Arab nations are doing their part to keep the peace in the region, as they should. It's their responsibility, not ours.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 30, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The long range missile tests stopped until after Biden took office. What you remember were short range missile tests which are allowed. Name another modern president that didn't start a war. You won't be able to do that either.


My argument is not that other US presidents were better but that they all suck. Trump was nothing special, nor will he be if he is re-elected. Despite the boo-hoo by the elites, he is no different than e.g. Biden.



TraderPatTX said:


> Pompeo just went to Taiwan a couple of months ago and no threats were made. This is the second time China made threats because Pelosi is supposed to go there. Maybe she'll come down with Covid again to get out of going like she did last time.


You asked me to justify my claim that he is insane. Xi told Biden "If you play with fire, you get burned". A stronger threat cannot be uttered by a Chinese president. Pompeo encourages Pelosi anyway. That is insane. If he goes there as a private citizen, it is a different matter.



TraderPatTX said:


> It's just weird that as soon as the Accords were signed, Arabic nations started trading and forming official relationships with Israel and Saudi Arabia began allowing Israeli planes to cross their airspace. None of that was happening before. And now the Arab nations are doing their part to keep the peace in the region, as they should. It's their responsibility, not ours.


I am not convinced but I concede this point: perhaps it was special. For me, it was not because I have seen them work together in Syria.


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## imgtr (Jul 30, 2022)




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## The Catboy (Jul 30, 2022)

I can't join any of the military forces, so good luck everyone else dying so rich people can make money or something stupid.


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## sombrerosonic (Jul 30, 2022)

Fuck getting drafted, Ima gonna break my legs so no drafting for this mf.


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## Creamu (Jul 30, 2022)

'China's Army Posts "Get Ready For War!" Message On Social Media, State Mouthpiece Says PLA Has "Right" To Intercept Pelosi's Plane

Update(1408ET): The Chinese government's English language mouthpiece Global Times has grown particularly loud and bellicose in response to Nancy Pelosi's potential trip to the self-ruled island of Taiwan:

"Get ready for war!" read a message posted by China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) 80th Group over the US visit to Taiwan, as reported on Friday, July 29. China’s Army’s war message over the potential US visit to Taiwan reportedly generated over 300,000 thumbs-up in just 12 hours, creating "high morale among Chinese soldiers" according to Global Times.

Below: reportedly the message in question appearing on a PLA channel Friday on the popular Chinese social media app Weibo:

“Preparing for War(备战）！”
The official #Weibo account of the 80th Army Group of the #CCP' People's Liberation Army #PLA posted this two-Chinese-word post 15 hours ago and has gained 650K likes, 32K comments, and 28K shares so far. pic.twitter.com/voEJ3BHFn6

— Jennifer Zeng 曾錚 (@jenniferatntd) July 29, 2022
I'd rather translate it as preparing for war. 备means prepare, get ready for, 战 means war. Of course, it can also mean action. But this is an account of PLA.

[...]'

-Zerohedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pelosi-leading-delegation-asia-taiwan-stop-not-clear

'China Is Issuing The Same "Red Line" Warnings About Taiwan That Russia Issued About Ukraine

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has continued to pour gasoline on the foreign policy dumpster fire that is her planned visit to Taiwan next month, now reportedly encouraging other members of congress to come along for the ride.

“Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has invited a small group of lawmakers on her official trip to Taiwan, including the top Democrat and Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee,” NBC News reports.

This trip, which Beijing perceives as an egregious transgression of Washington’s longstanding one-China policy, is already so incendiary that the Pentagon is now planning to send in fighter jets and other war machinery to protect Pelosi’s plane in case of attacks by the Chinese military.

[...]'

-Caitlin Johnstone

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/c...ings-about-taiwan-russia-issued-about-ukraine

'China Launches Live-Fire Drills Off Taiwan With US Carrier Group Nearby, As Pelosi's Plane En Route To Asia

According to prior comments from President Biden, the Pentagon wants House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to cancel her visit to Taiwan - but now pending her possible arrival in Taipei the US military has moved a Navy strike group into the South China Sea led by the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier.

The USS Reagan left a port call in Singapore and is now patrolling waters near China, with Beijing flexing its own military muscle by launching fresh naval exercises near the self-ruled island - and more worrisomely issuing threats that the PLA military is on stand-by to respond with "forceful measures" if needed.  Turkey's EHA media outlet on Saturday is circulating (unverified) video purporting to show large US warplane formation flyovers of the South China sea, with destroyers below...

[...]'

-ZeroHedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...s-carrier-group-nearby-pelosis-plane-en-route


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 31, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> My argument is not that other US presidents were better but that they all suck. Trump was nothing special, nor will he be if he is re-elected. Despite the boo-hoo by the elites, he is no different than e.g. Biden.
> 
> 
> You asked me to justify my claim that he is insane. Xi told Biden "If you play with fire, you get burned". A stronger threat cannot be uttered by a Chinese president. Pompeo encourages Pelosi anyway. That is insane. If he goes there as a private citizen, it is a different matter.
> ...


Trump is different because the uniparty and the administrative state attacked him constantly. That does not happen with Biden and it didn't happen with Obama, Bush, Clinton or Daddy Bush. They made up the boldest of lies and have never proven anything, but people accept the lies and move on. We were told there was a pee pee tape. Where is it? Where is all the evidence Adam Schiff swore he had on Trump/Russia that could put him away for good? How come not a single person has been indicted for insurrection, sedition or treason relating to J6? Certainly the CNN and MSNBC super fans have to be asking why nothing is being produced that have been promised.

So you think Pelosi is gonna go to Taiwan because Pompeo encouraged her?  

Have you ever asked yourself why she is going to Asia? She's not a diplomat or the president. She should be spending more time in her district instead.

I'm not here to convince you or anybody else here. Just ask questions that the corporate media refuses to ask. Don't take what you read and hear at face value. Do your own research. There is a reason why trust in the media has dropped to 11%, but their narratives stay alive because of social media. Nobody even notices that numerous ex-CIA and ex-FBI personnel work for these news conglomerates.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 31, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Do your own research. There is a reason why trust in the media has dropped to 11%, but their narratives stay alive because of social media. Nobody even notices that numerous ex-CIA and ex-FBI personnel work for these news conglomerates.


You are barking at the wrong tree. There is mainstream, there is you and other Drumpf fans and than there are extremists like me. I´m so extreme I could be on a cover of a 90s video game.
Trump in only different in style, not substance. But it is already enough to be attacked by the mainstream.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 2, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You are barking at the wrong tree. There is mainstream, there is you and other Drumpf fans and than there are extremists like me. I´m so extreme I could be on a cover of a 90s video game.
> Trump in only different in style, not substance. But it is already enough to be attacked by the mainstream.


I'm not even sure what you trying to say here, but ok.


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## Creamu (Aug 3, 2022)

*'Wake up! We are at war with china right now, we just don't realise it.'

'We are getting ready to be humiliated in a way we haven't been humiliated ever and this is going to be worse than pearl habor, if we choose to escalate.'

'This is the dumbest thing we have done in a long long long time. (Sending Pelosi)'

'My biggest fear was nuclear war before this year ended. This is playing out right now.'*
-Scott Ritter


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## Creamu (Aug 3, 2022)

Creamu said:


> 'Wake up! We are at war with china right now, we just don't realise it.'
> 'We are getting ready to be humiliated in a way we haven't been humiliated ever and this is going to be worse than pearl habor, if we choose to escalate.'
> 'This is the dumbest thing we have done in a long long long time. (Sending Pelosi)'
> 'My biggest fear was nuclear war before this year ended. This is playing out right now.'
> ...





Glyptofane said:


> I guess this and the fake al-Zawahiri assassination are supposed to distract from the humiliating and definitive loss in Ukraine?
> 
> I for one am pro-Chinese and look forward to them controlling the world. They'll do a better job than the current group.


Doesn't make sense, why if you are loosing a conflict start another with a bigger enemy to cover up the loss? They will look even worse down the road by alot.

Unfortunatly it seems like many other candidates would be better than the current group.


Glyptofane said:


> It didn't make sense to go from small time Middle East conflicts they could never finish to taking on Russia either. Looking at the end result, maybe the goal is self sabotage and impoverishment of the Western world. That or they're just stupid.


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 3, 2022)

i swear to god if nancy palocy causes Fallout 5 im going to be pissed.... very pissed


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## Creamu (Aug 3, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> i swear to god if nancy palocy causes Fallout 5 im going to be pissed.... very pissed


Will you vote for the opposing party?


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 3, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Will you vote for the opposing party?


Cant say.... nor do i care for pol


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 4, 2022)

Creamu said:


> *'Wake up! We are at war with china right now, we just don't realise it.'
> 
> 'We are getting ready to be humiliated in a way we haven't been humiliated ever and this is going to be worse than pearl habor, if we choose to escalate.'
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure we were warned that the CCP were going to invade Taiwan, but apparently 81 million people didn't listen. But no more mean tweets and the adults are back in charge restoring our precious norms.


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## Alexander1970 (Aug 4, 2022)

According to the Chinese "movements" on Taiwan - Chances are not bad for another World War....


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## lokomelo (Aug 4, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> According to the Chinese "movements" on Taiwan - Chances are not bad for another World War....


man, is so much dumbness, ego and irresponsibility every fucking where on every fucking side...

Why the hell you taunt a nuclear power and why the hell the taunted nuclear power do taunt back. What do they want? Be the the number one on a wasted world?


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## Creamu (Aug 4, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> man, is so much dumbness, ego and irresponsibility every fucking where on every fucking side...
> 
> Why the hell you taunt a nuclear power and why the hell the taunted nuclear power do taunt back. What do they want? Be the the number one on a wasted world?


They prefer to rule in hell rather than to be a regular in heaven.


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## Acid_Snake (Aug 4, 2022)

The most glaring issue with WWIII is that, unlike WWII, this time the fascists (Russia) and the communists (China) are gonna be allies, as they were initially in WWII until Hitler fucked up and attacked Russia, and thank God he did, we would have had a huge problem if we had to take on the nazis and the commies at the same time.

Seems like we're not gonna be so lucky this time around. Hopefully we get to bury these nasty ideologies once and for all.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 4, 2022)

Mainland China could give tens of millions of men a handgun and let them swim to Taiwan on canoes. It would barely affect their demographics if most of them died capturing Taiwan (because of the excess of men due to the one-child policy and abortion of females).
An insane idea (they would rather bomb it into submission) but I just want to point out that women are the bottleneck in demographics.


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## Creamu (Aug 4, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Seems like we're not gonna be so lucky this time around. Hopefully we get to bury these nasty ideologies once and for all.


I just hope the psychopathic merchant class will stop preying on the peoples of this world.


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## Acid_Snake (Aug 4, 2022)

Creamu said:


> I just hope the psychopathic merchant class will stop preying on the peoples of this world.


I guess you mean mercantilism? In which case, that's the basic economic principles of fascism, so yeah like I said, hopefully we get to bury these ideologies for good this time.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 4, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> The most glaring issue with WWIII is that, unlike WWII, this time the fascists (Russia) and the communists (China) are gonna be allies, as they were initially in WWII until Hitler fucked up and attacked Russia, and thank God he did, we would have had a huge problem if we had to take on the nazis and the commies at the same time.
> 
> Seems like we're not gonna be so lucky this time around. Hopefully we get to bury these nasty ideologies once and for all.


Russians and Chinese bled the most by far in WW2. They will make sure it does not happen again. Compared to the West, Russia and China don´t even have ideologies today. What an insane idea to be alligned with other nations because they have a the method of choosing leaders. What if China and Russia copied the exact political system of the US? Would they become less of a threat to US dominance in the world? That´s the actual issue. They are the enemy because they don´t want to be vassels of the US. When Western media speaks of Ukraine defending Western values, they actually mean the enmity against Russia. Politically, Russia and Ukraine are almost the same. Imagine if Alaska decided to call itself communist. Would China feel the need to send arms and politicians there to defend their "freedom"? No. Only the West thinks like this. China does feel the need to be friendly with Pakistan in order to contain India. But it has nothing to do with ideology. It´s astonishing how millions of Westerners still think like elementary children.


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## Creamu (Aug 4, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> I guess you mean mercantilism? In which case, that's the basic economic principles of fascism, so yeah like I said, hopefully we get to bury these ideologies for good this time.


No, I mean the world banking system of the Rothschilds and co.


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## Creamu (Aug 10, 2022)

'Will Biden Stumble into a New World War?

The behavior of policy-makers in D.C. today is eerily similar to that of British leaders at the onset of the First World War.

[...]

When it comes to defense and foreign policy, there are very few stone-cold realists in Washington’s policy-making circles. Since 1945, with a few notable exceptions, most American presidents have tended to put short-term political celebrity or ephemeral liberal causes ahead of tangible, concrete national interests in America’s relations with other nation-states. Biden is no exception to the rule.

Guided more by impulse and emotion than reason or knowledge of the facts, President Biden, like most of Washington’s ruling political class, may be privately pleased with Speaker Pelosi’s visit to Taipei. When Speaker Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan is viewed in the context of Biden's self-evidently thoughtless remark, however, it is clear that the combination is having a negative impact across Asia.

Japan's top government spokesman, Hiroakazu Matsono, expressed a view that is widely shared across Asia when he said, “Peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait is important not only for the security of Japan but also the world.”

[...]

Beijing expects that the immediate threat to China will come from the U.S. Navy’s Pacific Fleet and America’s Air Force. Consequently, Beijing invested heavily over the last two decades in the combination of layered air defenses and a vast arsenal of ground-based tactical and intermediate range surface-to-surface precision-guided missiles, rockets, and loitering munitions linked to persistent space and terrestrial-based intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR-Strike) platforms. 

In a confrontation over Taiwan, the U.S. Navy’s surface fleet would have to operate far from China’s coastline to avoid the PLA’s missile strikes, severely limiting the surface fleet’s ability to influence events ashore inside China. Washington could still blockade China’s Pacific Coast, but to do so, it would have to rely primarily on its nuclear-powered attack submarines in deep water. 

But a blockade would not nullify China’s principal strategic advantage. The depth of its continental position with a friendly, resource-rich Russia to the north suggests that a blockade is unlikely to succeed. Based on the expenditure rates oft munitions and precision-guided weapon systems of all kinds in Ukraine, current U.S. inventories of precision-guided missiles and munitions would be exhausted quickly. Unrealistic thinking about the demands of modern warfare combined with a false sense of moral superiority irreparably harmed the British Empire, and eventually reduced Great Britain to the status of a second-rate power. The question for Americans is whether the leadership in Washington, D.C. is not unlike a brontosaurus with a body that’s 50 yards long and a brain the size of a pin. With each passing day, it becomes more critical for Americans with common sense to replace the pin-brains running the show inside the beltway before they march Americans down the ruinous path the British took in 1914.'

-Douglas Macgregor 

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/will-biden-stumble-into-a-new-world-war/


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## lokomelo (Aug 10, 2022)

Creamu said:


> 'Will Biden Stumble into a New World War?
> 
> The behavior of policy-makers in D.C. today is eerily similar to that of British leaders at the onset of the First World War.
> 
> ...


This text assumes that USA will honor their alliance with Taiwan. Looking on what happened in Afghanistan, USA kinda don't care about their allies when their wars are not profitable.


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## Flame (Aug 12, 2022)

i dont care about world war 3. 

its all about what type of sticks and stones we going to fight world war 4 with.


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## Creamu (Aug 12, 2022)

Flame said:


> i dont care about world war 3.
> 
> its all about what type of sticks and stones we going to fight world war 4 with.


Sticks and stones?! Don't you know the riddle of steel?!


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## Flame (Aug 12, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Sticks and stones?! Don't you know the riddle of steel?!



oh yes Jet fuel can't melt s_teel beams_


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## Creamu (Aug 12, 2022)

Flame said:


> oh yes Jet fuel can't melt s_teel beams_


WRONG!!!


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## Alexander1970 (Aug 13, 2022)

It looks like we may have "Ukraine II" soon......or more... 
China is "playing" the landing off Taiwan's coast.... 

Some people (politicians??) in the US are "publicly" talking about "China should be maybe nuclear wiped out...." (Wolfowitz Doctrine...). 
On the other hand, China will soon "destroy" the West economically....or has that already happened ? 
China may have already overtaken the USA economically....or is about to do so in the near future.. 
The best time would be now (the USA is divided internally and the EU is on the ground...) 

Wow, this is more exciting than any Partie if "Game of "Risk" at the moment.....


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## Creamu (Aug 13, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> It looks like we may have "Ukraine II" soon......or more...
> China is "playing" the landing off Taiwan's coast....
> 
> Some people (politicians??) in the US are "publicly" talking about "China should be maybe nuclear wiped out...." (Wolfowitz Doctrine...).
> ...


You think this is a mother f'n game?!


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## Alexander1970 (Aug 13, 2022)

Creamu said:


> You think this is a mother f'n game?!


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 13, 2022)

Creamu said:


> You think this is a mother f'n game?!


Well, Real life Fallout would be fun, but we all know that this will never happen for the most part.


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## Creamu (Aug 13, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> View attachment 322415


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 14, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> It looks like we may have "Ukraine II" soon......or more...
> China is "playing" the landing off Taiwan's coast....
> 
> Some people (politicians??) in the US are "publicly" talking about "China should be maybe nuclear wiped out...." (Wolfowitz Doctrine...).
> ...


I'm enjoying watching people on here react to the news because they have idea what is going on.


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## Creamu (Aug 14, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'm enjoying watching people on here react to the news because they have idea what is going on.


Thanks, I think about alot of things happening to prepare for what is to come.


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## Creamu (Aug 15, 2022)

'The PLA started live drills around Taiwan on Monday, the SCMP reported, as the island’s president received the first US congress delegation since a visit by US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi drew unprecedented military pressure from Beijing two weeks ago.

“This is a resolute counterstrike and solemn deterrence to the consecutive provocations by the US and Taiwan that undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait,” Wu Qian, a spokesman for China’s defence ministry, said. He added that the visit led by Democratic Senator Ed Markey sent the wrong signals to pro-independence forces in Taiwan. Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense said Monday that it detected 30 Chinese military planes and five warships around Taiwan’s surrounding region.

According to Bloomberg, unlike earlier this month when China conducted live-fire exercises and likely fired ballistic missiles over Taiwan’s main island, Beijing didn’t immediately specify exclusion areas for commercial planes or ships to avoid. Chinese naval vessels and warplanes have regularly breached the US-drawn median line that divides the Taiwan Strait since Pelosi’s arrival on Aug. 2.

In Beijing, foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said Beijing had repeatedly warned against the trip, which breached the one-China principle and the three joint communiques signed by Washington.  Wang also said the visit “blatantly violates” the country’s “One China” understanding with the US, was a “violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of China” and cross-strait reunification was a historic trend that could not be changed.

“China will take resolute and strong measures to defend its national sovereignty and territorial integrity,” Wang said. “The handful of US politicians who have been colluding with Taiwan independent separatist forces and attempting to challenge the One China principle, they are overestimating themselves and are doomed to fail.”

He urged Washington to stop interfering in the internal affairs of the mainland and warned that any attempt to challenge the one-China principle and split the island from the mainland would be crushed by Beijing.

Taiwan Affairs Office spokesman Ma Xiaoguang also accused the island’s ruling Democratic Progressive Party of repeatedly using “external force” to counter Beijing and of seeking independence for the island through support from the US. He warned the DPP against the attempts, saying they were the path to self-destruction.

[...]'

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...und-taiwan-protest-democratic-senator-markeys


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## AncientBoi (Aug 15, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'm enjoying watching people on here react to the news because they have idea what is going on.



[walks in] ???


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## Creamu (Aug 16, 2022)

'China Starts More Military Drills in Response to Latest Congressional Delegation to Taiwan
The delegation asked Taiwanese lawmakers if they want the US to change its 'strategic ambiguity' policy

China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) started fresh drills around Taiwan on Monday in response to a congressional delegation that visited the island.

Wu Qian, a spokesman for China’s Defense Ministry, said the military exercises were a “resolute counterstrike and solemn deterrence to the consecutive provocations by the US and Taiwan that undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.”

Taiwan’s Defense Ministry said it detected five PLA vessels in the area and 30 PLA aircraft, including 15 that crossed the median line that separates the two sides of the Taiwan Strait. China used to avoid crossing the median line, but since Pelosi visited Taiwan on August 2, PLA aircraft have regularly breached the unofficial barrier.

[...]

The policy of strategic ambiguity means that the US won’t say one way or the other if it would intervene in the event of a Chinese attack on Taiwan. But some hawks in Washington want that policy changed to guarantee a US response, known as strategic clarity, which would significantly raise tensions with Beijing. It’s not clear how the Taiwanese lawmakers responded to the congressional delegation’s questions about the issue.

[...]'

-Dave DeCamp

https://news.antiwar.com/2022/08/15...to-latest-congressional-delegation-to-taiwan/

'[...]

In a statement Tuesday the command said it "launched an unarmed Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile equipped with a test re-entry vehicle from Vandenberg Space Force Base, California, Aug. 16 at 12:49 a.m. Pacific Time to demonstrate the readiness of U.S. nuclear forces and provide confidence in the lethality and effectiveness of the nation’s nuclear deterrent."

At a moment tensions over Taiwan are still boiling, and after six months of the Russian war in Ukraine, the command stressed that "Such tests have occurred more than 300 times before, and *this test is not the result of current world events*."

"The ICBM's reentry vehicle *traveled approximately 4,200 miles to the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands*," according to details from the Air Force. "These test launches verify the accuracy and reliability of the ICBM weapon system, providing valuable data to ensure a continued safe, secure and effective nuclear deterrent."

Emphasizing further that American rivals should not see this as a provocation in need of escalation, the command's Task Force commander Maj. Armand Wong said, "Our test launches are scheduled well in advance and are not reactionary to world events." He added: "A meticulous planning process for each launch begins six-months to a year prior to launch."

[...]'

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/...ke-capable-ballistic-missile-after-delay-over


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 16, 2022)

Creamu said:


> 'China Starts More Military Drills in Response to Latest Congressional Delegation to Taiwan
> The delegation asked Taiwanese lawmakers if they want the US to change its 'strategic ambiguity' policy
> 
> China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) started fresh drills around Taiwan on Monday in response to a congressional delegation that visited the island.
> ...


Let's send more congressional delegations to Taiwan. That will surely stave off World War III.

Can anybody explain why Biden is not calling for a meeting with President Xi or can his Delaware vacation not be interrupted? We do have an ambassador to the UN don't we? What's Michele Taylor up to these days? Antony Blinken? Where's he at?

I guess Biden is busy raiding Mar-a-Lago to care what his CCP friends are doing.


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## Creamu (Aug 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Let's send more congressional delegations to Taiwan. That will surely stave off World War III.
> 
> Can anybody explain why Biden is not calling for a meeting with President Xi or can his Delaware vacation not be interrupted? We do have an ambassador to the UN don't we? What's Michele Taylor up to these days? Antony Blinken? Where's he at?
> 
> I guess Biden is busy raiding Mar-a-Lago to care what his CCP friends are doing.


It seems they want the escalation. But why?


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 16, 2022)

Creamu said:


> It seems they want the escalation. But why?


I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's to make us lose a war so the Constitution can be thrown away.


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## Creamu (Aug 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's to make us lose a war so the Constitution can be thrown away.


How would that work?


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 16, 2022)

Creamu said:


> How would that work?


Generally, the losers of wars are not allowed to keep their countries intact.


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## Creamu (Aug 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Generally, the losers of wars are not allowed to keep their countries intact.


Yes, but you don't get to reform it however you want either. Loosing to China would mean exhausting fighting capability, since the chinese military is specialised in defending against the USA. It is acutally not easy to take over the USA by military forces for russia or china because of the geographical position.

If somehow China takes over the USA they would not play by the rules by are mercantile elite.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 16, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Yes, but you don't get to reform it however you want either. Loosing to China would mean exhausting fighting capability, since the chinese military is specialised in defending against the USA. It is acutally not easy to take over the USA by military forces for russia or china because of the geographical position.
> 
> If somehow China takes over the USA they would not play by the rules by are mercantile elite.


I'm not sure how it will theoretically play out, but I am sure it will never happen.

You are right though, that there is not a military force in the world who could take us over.


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## Creamu (Aug 17, 2022)

'US-Russia Nuclear War Would Kill 5 Billion From Famine Alone: Study

[...]

The biggest US-Russian exchange would positively devastate global food production -- shrinking it 90% within three to four years after the explosions cease, the researchers say. Seventy-five percent of human beings would be dead in two years. 

In addition to lower crop yields, the Rutgers model attempted to account for export restrictions, as well as mitigation efforts such as giving humans livestock feed to eat. 

[...]

Last summer, hundreds of new missile silos began appearing in the Chinese desert. The Pentagon declared that Beijing, which had long said it needed only a “minimum deterrent,” was moving to build an arsenal of “at least” 1,000 nuclear arms by 2030.

[...]'

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-russia-nuclear-war-would-kill-5-billion-famine-alone-study


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Oh no China is building nukes oh no Made in China nukes lmaoooo they'll explode as soon as someone lifts them up LMAOOOOO


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Creamu said:


> 'US-Russia Nuclear War Would Kill 5 Billion From Famine Alone: Study
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


Too bad both parties have been bought off by China and told us to focus on Russia while China quietly built a nuclear arsenal.


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## Creamu (Aug 18, 2022)

'In the fresh remarks, Putin continued his prior theme of a turn from unipolar to multi-polar world order, based on the decline of the United States and West. He said as translated in state media: 

"Western globalist elites are provoking chaos by rekindling old and inciting new conflicts, implementing a policy of so-called containment, while undermining any alternative, sovereign paths of development. Thus, they are desperately trying to preserve the hegemony and power that are slipping out of their grasp, trying to keep countries and peoples in the grip of a neo-colonial order."

He blasted this Western "hegemony" as what in the end will result in global stagnation. Further he said:

"NATO's war machine is moving, approaching Russia's borders closely... Russia has been trying for 30 years to negotiate NATO non-expansion to the east..."

[...]

"The so-called collective West is deliberately destroying the European security system, putting together new military alliances. The NATO bloc is expanding East, building up its military infrastructure, deploying missile defense systems and increasing the strike capabilities of its offensive forces."

[...]

"The American reckless gamble in relation to Taiwan is not just a visit by an individual irresponsible politician, but part of a purposeful, conscious US strategy to destabilize… the situation in the region and the world, a brazen demonstration of disrespect for the sovereignty of other countries and for its international obligations. We see this as a carefully planned provocation," Putin said.'

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...refully-planned-provocation-destabilize-putin


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## Luke94 (Nov 5, 2022)

That's why I started practising shooting with Air Gun Remington. Lens and laser aim might be adequate modern arsenal weapon add-ons/modifications like in Ratchet & Clank videogame series since Ratchet & Clank 2/Going Commando for Sony PlayStation 2. So my shooting distance might be better and more accurate,correct,clear,proper. I heeard allegedly my own great-grandfather was serving in Werhmacht to Nazi Germans during World War 2. In case of World War 3(it's the only thing that should never really happen besides Half-Life 3,Jazz Jackrabbit 3D,Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 3,Sonic Adventure 3-modern entertainment in nutshell in videogame history).


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