# Microsoft Bring the Start Menu Back to Windows 8



## Tom Bombadildo (Apr 3, 2014)

After all the collective bitching and crying from the internet, Microsoft has decided to finally bring back the Start Menu to Windows 8.



> As if you haven't already replaced the Start menu on your own, Microsoft says they'll be bringing back the Start menu in a future update. It looks similar to the old one, but with a small tiled interface tacked on the side, which is actually pretty cool. Microsoft will also let tiled "Modern" apps run in a window on the desktop (which you can currently do with ModernMix).


 
Source


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## duffmmann (Apr 3, 2014)

I never understood why people bitch about this to begin with.  I have Windows 8.1, and its great, you can tap an icon that says desktop (or simply push the window key on your keyboard) and it will bring you to an alternate Windows 7ish desktop with a start menu.


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## FireGrey (Apr 3, 2014)

This is almost 24 hours late


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## the_randomizer (Apr 3, 2014)

I'll stick with Windows 7, no one has given me any reason to update or any real major/groundbreaking feature as to why I should. I'm comfortable with what I have.


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## migles (Apr 3, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> I never understood why people bitch about this to begin with. I have Windows 8.1, and its great, you can tap an icon that says desktop (or simply push the window key on your keyboard) and it will bring you to an alternate Windows 7ish desktop with a start menu.


 
how do you will get to metro after this update?


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## FireGrey (Apr 3, 2014)

migles said:


> how do you will get to metro after this update?


 
Metro apps run in windows instead of full screen in the update


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## loco365 (Apr 3, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> I never understood why people bitch about this to begin with. I have Windows 8.1, and its great, you can tap an icon that says desktop (or simply push the window key on your keyboard) and it will bring you to an alternate Windows 7ish desktop with a start menu.


 
Do you even realize what the start menu even is? Windows 8 was the first modern version of Windows to not have it, rather, the Modern UI, which made it harder for desktop users. I'm on a touchscreen myself, but I find the modern ui a PITA myself. Especially after installing a new program. I'd rather have a start menu than that UI.


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## trumpet-205 (Apr 3, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> I'll stick with Windows 7, no one has given me any reason to update or any real major/groundbreaking feature as to why I should. I'm comfortable with what I have.


For me I'm thinking about moving to Windows 8. At this point I doubt there will be SP2 for Windows 7, or that DirectX 12 will make an appearance on Windows 7.


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## the_randomizer (Apr 3, 2014)

trumpet-205 said:


> For me I'm thinking about moving to Windows 8. At this point I doubt there will be SP2 for Windows 7, or that DirectX 12 will make an appearance on Windows 7.


 

I don't like the Metro UI, at all, sure, I can get it for free via MSDN, but, I'd have to reinstall all my games and backup everything on my HDD, which is a PITA.


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## Hells Malice (Apr 3, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> I never understood why people bitch about this to begin with. I have Windows 8.1, and its great, you can tap an icon that says desktop (or simply push the window key on your keyboard) and it will bring you to an alternate Windows 7ish desktop with a start menu.


 
Because it's entirely unnecessary for it to even exist? It's an ugly clunky tablet interface on a PC. There was never any point to Metro on a PC. Win8 users shouldn't have had to dance around metro when it should just plain have never existed.


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## DinohScene (Apr 3, 2014)

Nice move Microsoft.
Still not upgrading to Win8 tho.


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## the_randomizer (Apr 3, 2014)

No legit reason to update, sorry, Microsoft, but Windows 7 has only given me one BSOD and has been perfectly stable for emulators, PC games and other programs


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## Arras (Apr 3, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> I don't like the Metro UI, at all, sure, I can get it for free via MSDN, but, I'd have to reinstall all my games and backup everything on my HDD, which is a PITA.


...there is no need to do any of that? Insert a Win8 disk and click Upgrade and it'll keep all your programs and files.


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## duffmmann (Apr 3, 2014)

Team Fail said:


> Do you even realize what the start menu even is? Windows 8 was the first modern version of Windows to not have it, rather, the Modern UI, which made it harder for desktop users. I'm on a touchscreen myself, but I find the modern ui a PITA myself. Especially after installing a new program. I'd rather have a start menu than that UI.


 

Yes I do know what the start menu is.  I know initially it didn't have a start menu.  But if you go to the alternate Windows 7 desktop which you can bring up with a tap of a button on your keyboard, the alternate desktop has a start menu.  I don't know if every Windows 8 PC has this, but mine did right out of the box.


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## the_randomizer (Apr 3, 2014)

Arras said:


> ...there is no need to do any of that? Insert a Win8 disk and click Upgrade and it'll keep all your programs and files.


 

Meh, I still don't like the Metro UI, but that's just me.


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## migles (Apr 3, 2014)

trumpet-205 said:


> For me I'm thinking about moving to Windows 8. At this point I doubt there will be SP2 for Windows 7, or that DirectX 12 will make an appearance on Windows 7.


 
i had skipped vista, and i will skip win8 too, will update when win 9 comes out lulz


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## Bobbybangin (Apr 3, 2014)

I dual boot Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 on my gaming PC. I have Windows 8 on my laptop. Windows 7 is what I used the least, now that I'm used to Windows 8/8.1. Just right click the little icon in Windows 8.1 and you have a pseudo working start button. I'm keeping both versions of 8 and 8.1, because I hardly doubt Windows 7 will support DirectX 12.


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## loco365 (Apr 3, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> Yes I do know what the start menu is. I know initially it didn't have a start menu. But if you go to the alternate Windows 7 desktop which you can bring up with a tap of a button on your keyboard, the alternate desktop has a start menu. I don't know if every Windows 8 PC has this, but mine did right out of the box.


 
But... It doesn't. The Start button introduced in 8.1's desktop just returns you to the Modern UI. If Windows 8 desktop has any form of a Start menu, it's third party.


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## PityOnU (Apr 3, 2014)

It's a shame that Microsoft is slowly backpeddling on all of the strong decisions they've made over the past couple of years.

They've added the start menu back in to appease the people who haven't bought Windows 8 yet and keep saying "I want the start menu noooo  it's so stupid it's not there wtf M$ u dumb," but the fact of the matter is that those people aren't going to buy it anyway, the start menu was just a scapegoat (YUGIOH!!!).

Frankly, anyone who says they need the start button and menu because they are a "power user" is talking out of their ass. You know who actually uses a mouse and the start menu to open programs? My mum. Real power users use the Windows key on the keyboard and then start typing the program name. It's far more efficient.

The start menu is 20 years old time to move on people.


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## MushGuy (Apr 3, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> It's a shame that Microsoft is slowly backpeddling on all of the strong decisions they've made over the past couple of years.
> 
> They've added the start menu back in to appease the people who haven't bought Windows 8 yet and keep saying "I want the start menu noooo  it's so stupid it's not there wtf M$ u dumb," but the fact of the matter is that those people aren't going to buy it anyway, the start menu was just a scapegoat (YUGIOH!!!).
> 
> ...


Sorry, but unlike you, we are not mindless drones that are willing to be fed every questionable decision that Micro$oft makes, even if in your eyes they are considered "strong". That and your "analogy" that you pulled out of your ass only proves you to be the type of people that Microsoft should not be listening to. Read this article.

And seriously, why complain about something that they're bring back if they're not forcing you to use it anyway? We complained because we were forced to use the new interface. There's a difference.


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## Jayro (Apr 3, 2014)

I'm on Windows 8.1, and where can I find this update?


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## calmwaters (Apr 3, 2014)

I thought this was a petition, but... it's not. I didn't understand why computers with Win8 have touchscreen monitors. Seriously? And now I find out there wasn't a start menu button? Never know what you have until it's taken away.


PityOnU said:


> Frankly, anyone who says they need the start button and menu because they are a "power user" is talking out of their ass. You know who actually uses a mouse and the start menu to open programs? My mum. Real power users use the Windows key on the keyboard and then start typing the program name. It's far more efficient.
> 
> The start menu is 20 years old time to move on people.


Um; I also find it efficient to create desktop shortcuts and pin shortcuts to the task bar, a new feature added and one I really like. I really don't use the start button anymore because of this new feature.

While I appreciate your eagerness to abolish an industry standard, I realize that not everyone is a power user and needs that button. Don't assume that everyone who uses a computer is as advanced as you. In fact, computers have only fully implemented touchscreen capabilities because people can't type and (argh!) are not good at using the mouse.


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## loco365 (Apr 3, 2014)

JayRo said:


> I'm on Windows 8.1, and where can I find this update?


 
It's not released yet. I don't think it'll be included on the April 7 update either.


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## Jayro (Apr 3, 2014)

Oh well, sticking with ClassicShell until then I guess.


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## Deleted-236924 (Apr 3, 2014)

JayRo said:


> Oh well, sticking with ClassicShell until then I guess.


 
Sticking with ClassicShell even _after_ that tbh.


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## Nobunaga (Apr 3, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> It's a shame that Microsoft is slowly backpeddling on all of the strong decisions they've made over the past couple of years.
> 
> They've added the start menu back in to appease the people who haven't bought Windows 8 yet and keep saying "I want the start menu noooo  it's so stupid it's not there wtf M$ u dumb," but the fact of the matter is that those people aren't going to buy it anyway, the start menu was just a scapegoat (YUGIOH!!!).
> 
> ...


Some things are not meant to be changed :|
Start menu is better than Metro.


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## Apache Thunder (Apr 3, 2014)

I tried Windows 8 once. (had a disk image backup of my SSD prior to updating so I could switch back quickly). I was willing to deal with the god awe-full interface, but the fact I still had to run certain programs as administrator EVEN WITH UAC TURNED OFF is what made me go back. I won't deal with that s****. If Win 8 doesn't fix that, then I will never upgrade. 

I can't imagine how much a pain in the ass getting non signed drivers to work in Win8 might be. Didn't have it long enough to find out. There's a few USB devices I have that never got signed drivers. I doubt they would work again if I went to Win8.


It's starting to look like I will move away from Microsoft entirely long term. Hell I had XP right up until 2 years ago roughly.


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## Gahars (Apr 3, 2014)

So I guess we're back... to start.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 4, 2014)

Gahars said:


> So I guess we're back... to start.



A least starting is doing, faffing around and prompting is worse.


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## 2ndApex (Apr 4, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> The start menu is 20 years old time to move on people.


 

Onto what? How is Metro a more efficient UI than the start menu? I like to actually see what's on my screen when I'm searching for files/programs. Change for the sake of change (sidegrades) are downgrades when they don't offer anything superior to the table.

guize microsoft made a new keyboard qwerty's been around for 120 years time to move on people


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## loco365 (Apr 4, 2014)

Apache Thunder said:


> I tried Windows 8 once. (had a disk image backup of my SSD prior to updating so I could switch back quickly). I was willing to deal with the god awe-full interface, but the fact I still had to run certain programs as administrator EVEN WITH UAC TURNED OFF is what made me go back. I won't deal with that s****. If Win 8 doesn't fix that, then I will never upgrade.
> 
> I can't imagine how much a pain in the ass getting non signed drivers to work in Win8 might be. Didn't have it long enough to find out. There's a few USB devices I have that never got signed drivers. I doubt they would work again if I went to Win8.
> 
> ...


 
It is possible to disable driver signature enforcement. I needed to do that to install my Android Gingerbread drivers.


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## DinohScene (Apr 4, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> The start menu is 20 years old time to move on people.


 
If it ain't broke, dun fix it.

Lightbulbs are also well over 100 years old.
Do you abandon those?
Internet is also ~40 years old.
Do you abandon that?


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## FAST6191 (Apr 4, 2014)

DinohScene said:


> If it ain't broke, dun fix it.
> 
> Lightbulbs are also well over 100 years old.
> Do you abandon those?
> ...



If it ain't broke you haven't fiddled enough yet. On a slightly less fatalistic approach if it ain't broke then you probably have room for improvement.

In my lightbulb sockets right now are various combinations of LED and CFL lights, in essence then yes I abandoned lightbulbs as they were traditionally defined. Also in my cave room right now most light is being provided by a couple of screens; OLED and LED in general means I might also abandon the concept of the lightbulb itself before too long (similar to how we no longer have separate butchers for pigs and cattle).
40 years might be a stretch.
Also yeah I abandoned lots of things on the internet. Damned if I am writing in XHTML these days.


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## DinohScene (Apr 4, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> If it ain't broke you haven't fiddled enough yet. On a slightly less fatalistic approach if it ain't broke then you probably have room for improvement.
> 
> In my lightbulb sockets right now are various combinations of LED and CFL lights, in essence then yes I abandoned lightbulbs as they were traditionally defined. Also in my cave room right now most light is being provided by a couple of screens; OLED and LED in general means I might also abandon the concept of the lightbulb itself before too long (similar to how we no longer have separate butchers for pigs and cattle).
> 40 years might be a stretch.
> Also yeah I abandoned lots of things on the internet. Damned if I am writing in XHTML these days.


 
It's the basic concept of the Startmenu.
Much like lightbulbs.
Be it LED or CFL, their still lightbulbs ;]


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## PityOnU (Apr 4, 2014)

I posted this a while ago, but here is my desktop, as well as what I see when I press the start button in Windows 8.1:






Spoiler: Desktop










 


Spoiler: Start Button














And compare it to this:






Spoiler: Start Button














1) I'm not seeing how this "horrible metro interface" is really SO different that it renders your PC unusable

2) Seems like shortcuts and icons would be way easier to see and browse if they fill the screen instead of in a tiny little box?

3) The Windows key is a standard on PC keyboards now, and a physical button is mandated on all Windows tablets. Why should there be yet another button taking up space on the taskbar? It would be like having an Android phone that has capacitive buttons and displays the onscreen ones.


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## VampireLordAlucard (Apr 4, 2014)

> If it ain't broke, dun fix it.
> Lightbulbs are also well over 100 years old.
> Do you abandon those?
> Internet is also ~40 years old.
> Do you abandon that?


 
I never really understood that phrase. Why not make things better than what you have? I'm sure horse drawn carriages were fine transportation, but I'm glad we have cars now.

Candle light and postal mail has been around longer than either of those, and yes, they were mostly abandoned when something better came along.

Anyway, about Windows 8. I think it's great they removed the start menu. What's so wonderful about that little drop-down menu with your programs anyway? My problem with Windows 8 was how radically they changed the OS, coupled with how unintuitive it was. Being unable to find the shut down button, being stuck in desktop mode without any visual indicator to get back to the start screen, etc. Windows 8.1 plus spending some time with the OS really ironed out most of my problems. Give it a try for a week or two - you might be surprised.


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## slingblade1170 (Apr 4, 2014)

I've used Windows 8 for like 90 seconds and I've always heard bad things about it. Is it really that bad or just a ridiculous reputation it got?


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## FireGrey (Apr 4, 2014)

slingblade1170 said:


> I've used Windows 8 for like 90 seconds and I've always heard bad things about it. Is it really that bad or just a ridiculous reputation it got?


 
It's not quite as extreme as everyone acts like it is, but it is a step backwards for desktop users, which defeats the purpose of upgrading your desktop operating system.


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## techboy (Apr 4, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> 2) Seems like shortcuts and icons would be way easier to see and browse if they fill the screen instead of in a tiny little box?


Those of us who do things like development often need to launch programs, sometimes while watching other things run. Hiding everything you're doing just to launch something is absurd. The full-screen aspect is the primary reason I hate modern UI.



PityOnU said:


> 3) The Windows key is a standard on PC keyboards now, and a physical button is mandated on all Windows tablets. Why should there be yet another button taking up space on the taskbar?


Because otherwise there's no way to open it with the mouse. It's not essential, but seeing that everyone is used to it being there when they go looking for it (after all, it's been there since 1995), it's best off left there, especially since there's little reason to remove it. The space freed up by its removal is outweighed by the utility of the button.

Besides, once they put the menu back, it'd look odd if there's no button for it.


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## Ericthegreat (Apr 4, 2014)

I may now switch to windows 8 (eventually).


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## Sheimi (Apr 4, 2014)

I won't switch to windows 8. Hell, the beta of Windows 8 worked very well than the retail version.


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## chartube12 (Apr 4, 2014)

Microsoft why did you cave in? After having windows 8 pro since launch (now windows 8.1 pro), I have realized how useless the start menu is. The start screen is equally useless too unless you have a touch screen and no mouse. 99% of the time I don't use either. Desktop plus search and/or shortcut keys for the win.


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## shattacrew (Apr 4, 2014)

When will microsoft realize Metro & tiles looks retarded, it looks like accessibility options for the half-blind. Why stuck that in the start menu. I use windows 8 for its fast startup. And go straight to desktop.  Oh and its easy to hide porn with a touch of the windows key


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## Ulieq (Apr 4, 2014)

Too late bro, already switched back to windows 7.


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## PityOnU (Apr 4, 2014)

techboy said:


> Those of us who do things like development often need to launch programs, sometimes while watching other things run. Hiding everything you're doing just to launch something is absurd. The full-screen aspect is the primary reason I hate modern UI.


 
How long does it take you to launch an application? Like, really?



techboy said:


> Because otherwise there's no way to open it with the mouse. It's not essential, but seeing that everyone is used to it being there when they go looking for it (after all, it's been there since 1995).


 
I do agree that what they should have done was have an overlay pop up (like when you first use an Android device) that highlights where the start button used to be and says "We've moved the start button to your keyboard now."

They really did drop the ball on adding little tiny things like that which would have cleared up so much confusion and hate from the general public.


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## MarkDarkness (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm so tired of uninstalling Windows 8 from the machines of friends/family/coworkers... maybe this will give me a break. Seriously, virtually NOBODY likes this interface. A few people like the ones who manifested themselves in this thread do exist, but I seriously think they must be doing it for the lulz, because nobody can seriously like the idea of having the limitations of a tablet interface in your desktop computer. It can't be possible that people like the idea of running a single non-game piece of software fullscreen and find that remotely productive.

Or the abosutle pinnacle to me: if you use a touchpad and make sideway swipes it cojures that useless fucking menu on the right and steals focus away from what you are supposed to be doing, like, you know, working, chatting with yout buddies... instead of closing that monstrosity for the 50th time. Even better: absolutely no way to disable it without external hacks.

But great system otherwise, guys. Keep doing it for the lulz.


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## Adeka (Apr 4, 2014)

I still don't own a windows 8 computer


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## weatMod (Apr 4, 2014)

DinohScene said:


> If it ain't broke, dun fix it.
> 
> Lightbulbs are also well over 100 years old.
> Do you abandon those?
> ...


 

yeah MS and these other companies just like to change shit for no reason, change for the sake of change,

i think the problem comes because most programmer and other people  running these companies  are  socially retarded sperglords with no real human communication skills  , this can be the only reason why every single  OS sucks and they always make the worst decisions

 here is a tiny  example of what i mean,   before windows 7 ,or maybe vista(i don't know cause who the fuck would use vista)  the  " add/ remove programs "  option in  the control panel was called "add or remove programs" because it is a perfectly self fucking explanatory name for what it does,it adds or removes programs,  but  then some shit for brains retard sperglords come  and decide, hey i got an idea lets change the name of this most basic option which has been perfectly named since the beginning of windows  to something  totally arbitrary  and non descript, like , hey i know how about "programs and features" which tells me absolutely fucking nothing about what it does (and  also because of the alphabetic order puts this most used of  options that was listed at the top previously because "add remove programs" begins with "A" ,down the list  about 3/4 to the bottom) , i swear none of these people have any basic communication skills or common sense  what so ever, no reason to change something , but hey lets just do it to fuck with people , 
just a tiny example representative of the overall problem ,  i haven't really looked at  win 8 yet but i am sure there are plenty of retarded decisions such as this ,   and basic shit that has either been removed or moved arround  to piss users off,  they do it every time , since xp


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## the_randomizer (Apr 4, 2014)

Adeka said:


> I still don't own a windows 8 computer


 

You're not missing much lol


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## Skelletonike (Apr 4, 2014)

I've been using Windows 8 since the day it was released. The first few days were awkward on many ways, there were a lot of differences that kind of confused me, someone who had been using Windows PC's for over 16 years. Right now though, I find Windows 7 dull in comparison, I hated the metro at first, and now I find it rather covenient. Be it on my working laptop, my gaming laptop or on my gaming desktop. 

Unlike one of the post above me states, I do not like it for the lulz, I seriously like it because I do find it pratical. As for the 'single piece of sotfware fullscreen', Windows 8 allows you to resize and even have several stuff open up at the same time. But then again, that is only with the programs from the windows store, which are for the most part, for all windows 8 machines, not only desktops of laptops but tablets too, they're pretty much like an extra.


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## CathyRina (Apr 4, 2014)

When I tried W8 I remembered that Fraps wouldn't work on that thing well so after the 3 months trial ended up switching back to W7.
The metro was a nice idea but a unnecessary too. Like the screenshot shows now, adding touch friendly design without breaking old formula is easy enough.


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## Seratonin (Apr 4, 2014)

Skelletonike said:


> I've been using Windows 8 since the day it was released. The first few days were awkward on many ways, there were a lot of differences that kind of confused me, someone who had been using Windows PC's for over 16 years. Right now though, I find Windows 7 dull in comparison, I hated the metro at first, and now I find it rather covenient. Be it on my working laptop, my gaming laptop or on my gaming desktop.
> 
> Unlike one of the post above me states, I do not like it for the lulz, I seriously like it because I do find it pratical. As for the 'single piece of sotfware fullscreen', Windows 8 allows you to resize and even have several stuff open up at the same time. But then again, that is only with the programs from the windows store, which are for the most part, for all windows 8 machines, not only desktops of laptops but tablets too, they're pretty much like an extra.


 
I've been using Windows PC's for 17 years so I get what you're saying for the most part. Microsoft made a wrong move with Windows 8. The UI for the start menu wasn't ideal for the desktop side because it was only good for people who had a touchscreen. Windows 8 was a good operating system for tablets and any touchscreen device without a doubt. However, the start menu that the audience wanted was the start menu from Windows 7. Why? The average consumers want something simple and easy to open files. The Windows store was a great idea. The changes they are making for Windows 8 is to optionally either use full-screen for touchscreen devices or use the old fashion desktop windowed mode (Metro UI) for people who had a desktop/laptop. In my opinion, Windows 8 could have been successful if they included what I described and give users the option to install unsigned drivers without a hassle.


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## ieatpixels (Apr 4, 2014)

it only took them 3 years.

I just might upgrade after this is released. (tried it 3 years ago and none of my hardware had compatible drivers, I assume that would be fixed now but who knows.)


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## 2ndApex (Apr 4, 2014)

slingblade1170 said:


> I've used Windows 8 for like 90 seconds and I've always heard bad things about it. Is it really that bad or just a ridiculous reputation it got?


 

It's not "bad", there's just little reason to get it because Windows 7 is cheaper, better, and probably what you're already using.


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## Skelletonike (Apr 4, 2014)

Seratonin said:


> I've been using Windows PC's for 17 years so I get what you're saying for the most part. Microsoft made a wrong move with Windows 8. The UI for the start menu wasn't ideal for the desktop side because it was only good for people who had a touchscreen. Windows 8 was a good operating system for tablets and any touchscreen device without a doubt. However, the start menu that the audience wanted was the start menu from Windows 7. Why? The average consumers want something simple and easy to open files. The Windows store was a great idea. The changes they are making for Windows 8 is to optionally either use full-screen for touchscreen devices or use the old fashion desktop windowed mode (Metro UI) for people who had a desktop/laptop. In my opinion, Windows 8 could have been successful if they included what I described and give users the option to install unsigned drivers without a hassle.


 
The average user can get used to the new windows just fine though. I taught all my aunts how to use it and they learned it pretty fast, some were experienced with Windows and others were just starting, however they learned it and now they use it fairly easily.
Operating systems are bound to change over time, I seriously doubt that something like the start menu will exist for much longer. Be it microsoft or some other operating system in the future.


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## Pleng (Apr 4, 2014)

techboy said:


> Those of us who do things like development often need to launch programs, sometimes while watching other things run. Hiding everything you're doing just to launch something is absurd. The full-screen aspect is the primary reason I hate modern UI.


 
I have still yet to hear a genuine use case where it is vital to see what's going on in the 5 seconds it takes you to find and launch an application. I'm a developer and I can't see a single situation where this may occur.


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## vbkun (Apr 4, 2014)

Also to add up to above's comment, start menu was already back on the 8.1 update, but in full screen and not a tiny box in the corner.

The way I see it:

Old start menu:
2 levels

first level - Highlights" (pinned stuff)

second level - all apps

clicks to get to all apps : 2


Win 8. Start Menu:

2 levels

first default level - Highlights (pinned tiles)

second default level - all apps

Clicks to get to all apps: 2

Advantages for 8.1 :
- Full screen to browse ur apps, not a single chunck in corner.
- Possibility to change settings and go straight to All apps, eliminating 1 click and making start menu faster than it ever was before 8.1.

Disvantages for 8.1:

- Yeah u don't get to see that nothing happens in the 3/5 seconds u take to launch an application.


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## filfat (Apr 4, 2014)

Why bring back that old thing, its outdated and unproductive, I have been using Windows 8 since the Developer Preview edition.
I hope there is a off switch for it...

Btw, funny how some people are on the internet, remember what happened when they first show off the Start button? Everybody thought it was unproductive, we where proven wrong as it was way better then what we had before. then 3 years ago they show off the Metro UI, which many hated, and said it was unproductive, we where proven wrong its way more productive. Why do people always hate on better things? Nostalgia?


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## Qtis (Apr 4, 2014)

Windows 8.1 and classic shell. Basically the same thing, but not that I really use windows 8 that much 

As a serious point though, I have to say that windows 8.1 does more than most people even understand. Quite a few of those things are better than on windows 7.

I'm not the most power heavy user since my main OS is OS X 10.9, but I digress..


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## KoopaHax35000vr (Apr 4, 2014)

Hm, I might actually switch to this if I like it on VMWare.


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## Vipera (Apr 4, 2014)

I don't really feel like I need to upgrade from Windows 7 just yet, This is not like the switch I did from Vista to 7, or Vista to Ubuntu, or Vista to Austrumi, or Vista to Vista Premium.

Nah. But really, 7 is too much of a good OS to upgrade it already. Maybe when 9 arrives, or if we get a new hardware standard not compatible with 7.


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## chartube12 (Apr 4, 2014)

^^^^^^

Windows 9 comes out between Oct. and March.

I do not defend windows 8 for the lulz. I genuinely like Windows 8. Nearly every single person who hates on it acts like the desktop isn't there (IRL people, not just the temp). They don't even call the START SCREEN by the right name and call it by it's UI style instead, METRO. Then around half of the same people hate give the windows version of the metro style give it love on the 360 and xbone.

My father in law is in the computer tech business and it seems microsoft needs to educate these downers more. Why?, because until they upgraded the windows partition on their dual boot PC's even he didn't know the desktop was still there. The START SCREEN was for all intended purpose a replacement for the START MENU on windows 8. Now I guess it is been set back by haters and people afraid of change as an alternative to the start menu. RT is the version w/o the dam desktop not 8, btw.

Has I said in my original post in this thread, I realized with windows 8 how useless the start menu and start screen are. Combo of shortcut keys, desktop shortcuts and name typing are more efficient. Plus both Windows 8 and windows 8.1 introduced new native features such as mounting virtual drives. CPU usage by it has been cut down anywhere from 15%-20% compared to windows 7. That alone has reduced heat in my gaming laptop by 10 degrees F. Not mention the slimer universal drivers that are now starting to get back ported to windows 7.


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## Arras (Apr 4, 2014)

2ndApex said:


> Onto what? How is Metro a more efficient UI than the start menu? I like to actually see what's on my screen when I'm searching for files/programs. Change for the sake of change (sidegrades) are downgrades when they don't offer anything superior to the table.
> 
> guize microsoft made a new keyboard qwerty's been around for 120 years time to move on people


To be fair something like Dvorak is much better than Qwerty... I mean, seriously, one of your fingers is on the semicolon by default. That's literally only a good thing if you're a programmer. But trying to move people away from Qwerty will be pretty much fucking impossible. It'll be like the Windows 8 thing but a million times worse.


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## techboy (Apr 4, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> How long does it take you to launch an application? Like, really?


I use the menu 54 times a day based on average (based on a crude program I wrote that counts the number of times it's opened on my Win7 box)...so a lot, and it'd be even more if I didn't use a command prompt for a lot of stuff.

Also, the new screen doesn't even support a hierarchy. You can make groups, but there was no way to put groups inside groups the last time I tried it, and in the "all apps" view, you can't collapse them, instead being forced to scroll past them.

That's a massive step backwards, IMO.



PityOnU said:


> How long does it take you to launch an application? Like, really?


I do agree that what they should have done was have an overlay pop up (like when you first use an Android device) that highlights where the start button used to be and says "We've moved the start button to your keyboard now."
[/quote]
I'll agree this would help with confusion, but I still want the option to use it with my mouse. There was no real reason to remove the ability to use it with a mouse other than "because we can".


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## omega59 (Apr 4, 2014)

They should give people an option to want the metro or classic win7 interface/start menu. Yes they brought it back, but I still don't care for the tile crap. M$ give us better options not force us to use any part of metro including that startmenu metro crap!


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## Arras (Apr 4, 2014)

techboy said:


> I use the menu 54 times a day based on average (based on a crude program I wrote that counts the number of times it's opened on my Win7 box)...so a lot, and it'd be even more if I didn't use a command prompt for a lot of stuff.
> 
> Also, the new screen doesn't even support a hierarchy. You can make groups, but there was no way to put groups inside groups the last time I tried it, and in the "all apps" view, you can't collapse them, instead being forced to scroll past them.
> 
> ...


You could still use it with the mouse by moving to the bottom left corner and clicking, there just wasn't a visual Windows button anymore. Clicking that corner in Windows 8 does the exact same thing as clicking the button in 8.1.


MarkDarkness said:


> I'm so tired of uninstalling Windows 8 from the machines of friends/family/coworkers... maybe this will give me a break. Seriously, virtually NOBODY likes this interface. A few people like the ones who manifested themselves in this thread do exist, but I seriously think they must be doing it for the lulz, because nobody can seriously like the idea of having the limitations of a tablet interface in your desktop computer. It can't be possible that people like the idea of running a single non-game piece of software fullscreen and find that remotely productive.
> 
> Or the abosutle pinnacle to me: if you use a touchpad and make sideway swipes it cojures that useless fucking menu on the right and steals focus away from what you are supposed to be doing, like, you know, working, chatting with yout buddies... instead of closing that monstrosity for the 50th time. Even better: absolutely no way to disable it without external hacks.
> 
> But great system otherwise, guys. Keep doing it for the lulz.


False. In your touchpad settings, disable "Enable Edge Swipes".




If the setting is not there, try installing the generic Synaptic drivers instead of your OEM's drivers. Also, no one is forcing you to use the fullscreen apps, you can just ignore those.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 4, 2014)

Regarding the start screen/interface formerly known as metro... most new machines I deal with are still windows 7 but for the 8 crowd (granted only about 20 at this point) there were murmurs of discontent, translated that means "I hate it, I really do, get this shit off my machine right now". Classic Start (I would have tried the others but this is stable enough, free and available on ninite) installed and the only one I have heard a peep from was the tablet one I installed it on, which meant I stuck a shortcut back to it in the taskbar and left it to default to classic start enhanced screen by default. Ever since the start screen is mainly there as a glorified news RSS feed and an email notification/subject reader.

Now for some of those I took the executive decision and installed it from the get go (they turned it on, entered names and later called me to transfer all their old files), others muddled through it for a month or two as their primary use machine (or primary use laptop). At some level it might have happened if I had given it longer but whether it would have made a positive difference to the users would be a different matter (I own a hammer and a screwdriver, why would I ever learn to live with something?).
Many of those otherwise get along well enough with OSX and various flavours of linux as well (more than a few now have linux mint, mainly mate though XFCE is not unheard of), made the jump to ribbon or the jump to libre office (and open office before that died) without too much hassle and otherwise do OK.

That said someone took a machine back to the shop (it was an insurance recommendation and the wireless was abysmal on it) with classic start installed and it got one of the better PC shop incompetent stories I have heard in a while of "the machine has half of windows 7 installed".

My bigger problems with windows 8 seems to be that the security model is built tablet style and in favour of the start screen, this gave me issues with some of the camera stuff and older style programs. In some ways it brings me back to the early days of Vista's UAC before they toned it down a bit and program developers upped their game a bit. Now that was ultimately a boon, and I could see the light at the end of the tunnel, but it was a slog.

I would got into a desktop vs tiles thing but that would probably err dangerously close to a tabs in IE6 being provided by stacked things on the taskbar type affair.


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## Mario92 (Apr 4, 2014)

Qtis said:


> Windows 8.1 and classic shell. Basically the same thing, but not that I really use windows 8 that much
> 
> As a serious point though, I have to say that windows 8.1 does more than most people even understand. Quite a few of those things are better than on windows 7.
> 
> I'm not the most power heavy user since my main OS is OS X 10.9, but I digress..


One major problem with 8.1 was that they decided naming it 8.1. That update already made computer to be as usable as 7 like you said and has pretty nifty power user tools added. Even I despise 8 but with 8.1 I have no problems aside from metro apps but I already removed all of them and installed regular versions. Metro apps are installed via Store anyway so nobody uses them.




the_randomizer said:


> I'll stick with Windows 7, no one has given me any reason to update or any real major/groundbreaking feature as to why I should. I'm comfortable with what I have.


There's actually basic problem with Windows: like you and many in this thread said there's no reason to upgrade, XP was already pretty much perfect so that's why still many use it and if they change too much they are alienating basically everyone who has used computer in any form. With either case people aren't going to pay for license unless it's forced with new computer. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Can they even make anything new groundbreaking other than upgrading IE and DirectX and forcing it for newest Windows so everyone will have to buy it eventually?




MushGuy said:


> And seriously, why complain about something that they're bring back if they're not forcing you to use it anyway? We complained because we were forced to use the new interface. There's a difference.


What I have noticed with electronic devices usually is that less there's options to cutomize it more popular it is. iOS is good example and last time I tried Ubuntu they made customizing Unity really hard. Even on Nexus with vanilla android there's suprisingly low customization options overall so I had to install Cyanogenmod! If I look someones Windows 7 computer it's almost always same way: default pinned programs still pinned, nothing cusomized other than background. 

Options and customization are great things and I love to have more power to customize my stuff. Thing is if they wanted to make Windows experience same way on all devices they had to make that change and other thing is that they basically customized everyones computer at that point.


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## The Real Jdbye (Apr 4, 2014)

Microsoft can't seem to do anything right lately...
This abomination is just as messy as the start screen


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## smf (Apr 4, 2014)

MushGuy said:


> Sorry, but unlike you, we are not mindless drones that are willing to be fed every questionable decision that Micro$oft makes


 
Adding the start menu was a questionable decision and you ate that up like a mindless drone.



Mario92 said:


> There's actually basic problem with Windows: like you and many in this thread said there's no reason to upgrade, XP was already pretty much perfect so that's why still many use it and if they change too much they are alienating basically everyone who has used computer in any form.


 
XP isn't perfect by a long shot. Windows 8.1 has many nice features that are missing from XP. However if you're happy with XP then that is fine, just don't hate on Windows 8. I wouldn't run anything older than Windows 7 & just recently a Linux fan boy I know who had followed the "LOL let's hate Microsoft for Windows 8" line has actually started using it and says he quite likes it.


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## MushGuy (Apr 4, 2014)

smf said:


> Adding the start menu was a questionable decision and you ate that up like a mindless drone.


Translation:




Try harder.


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## osirisjem (Apr 4, 2014)

Microsoft fails at everything.
Windows 8 with no start menu was absolute classic Microsoft screwing up.

Windows 7 is more reliable ... no reason to move to Windows 8.

I use Windows 8 + Start 8 on one PC.    It's my most unreliable PC.  Even a few Vista boxes work better.  Windows 7 was very reliable.


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## the-green (Apr 4, 2014)

a good news even if I love windows 8 & 8.1 like it's now !!
getting back the start menu is a good decision


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## SparkFenix (Apr 4, 2014)

So will the stuff in the menu be the same as the start screen? I got annoyed when I installed something and then was missing the .exe in the all apps screen.

Not to mention the disabling system restore feature that came with 8.1.


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## lukands (Apr 4, 2014)

Maybe now I will actually kind of like using windows 8


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## JPhantom (Apr 4, 2014)

Arras said:


> To be fair something like Dvorak is much better than Qwerty... I mean, seriously, one of your fingers is on the semicolon by default. That's literally only a good thing if you're a programmer. But trying to move people away from Qwerty will be pretty much fucking impossible. It'll be like the Windows 8 thing but a million times worse.


too be absolutely fair to qwerty most people using a keyboard when keyboards first it came out did do programming so it was logical to have the semicolon a default key

and to the people saying microsoft like's to change for the sake of change you are wrong.  They like change for the sake of license fees.  If they kept up the updates on xp it would still be perfectly useable but they want to make money so they arbitrarily limit software to not run on that os  and introduce another os with just enough visible changes to claim it is a new os.  metro is pretty much the only visible change from 7.  going back on it by adding a start menu really sends the message that upgrading to win 8 is not necessary which is a horrible message to send from the perspective of the bottom line.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Apr 4, 2014)

yeah, classic shell user here...i like my Epic Smiley Face start button...but since my laptop I bought recently has a legit copy of windows 8.1 (usually I pirate activate all my OS's) i'll take advantage of this..no reason not to. This is better than when they trolled us with 8.1 saying that they would bring back the start menu with no screenies and found it it was a damned shortcut to metro


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## TVL (Apr 4, 2014)

JPhantom said:


> too be absolutely fair to qwerty most people using a keyboard when keyboards first it came out did do programming so it was logical to have the semicolon a default key


 
That's not the reason. It's done the way it is because typewriters were supposed to get jammed as little as possible. Not many people knew C, C++ and Java back in the late 1800s.

I don't think I will have anything to complain about with Win 8.1 once they add functionality just like ModernMix.


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## DaVince (Apr 4, 2014)

> Microsoft Bring the Start Menu Back to Windows 8


And it makes no difference whatsoever because Windows 8 already had a Start menu known as Metro.


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## vbkun (Apr 4, 2014)

techboy said:


> I'll agree this would help with confusion, but I still want the option to use it with my mouse. There was no real reason to remove the ability to use it with a mouse other than "because we can".




The main idea was not "because we can", it may look like that but it was a matter of integration of devices. The whole 'start button' was moved to a button no matter where, no matter which interface you would be....

metro on pc? start on button bellow screen
desktop on pc? start on button bellow screen
your phone? start on button bellow screen
tablet? start on button bellow screen
some future win8 tv ? start on remote control button
etc...

Resuming, the idea was removing it from screen cause any device should always have the start button somewhere, but not all devices/interface would have a start button on screen.


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## techboy (Apr 4, 2014)

vbkun said:


> The main idea was not "because we can", it may look like that but it was a matter of integration of devices. The whole 'start button' was moved to a button no matter where, no matter which interface you would be....
> 
> metro on pc? start on button bellow screen
> desktop on pc? start on button bellow screen
> ...


That would be fine for tablets, but if you consider that most people with Win8 have a PC, which has no button below the screen, then this is a terrible idea (I don't count the keyboard, since that's not the same).

In addition, everyone else in the PC and mobile market already knew what MS is now learning...that one interface is not suitable for all devices. Think about why Apple didn't put OS X on iPads or iOS on a Mac. Ditto for Google with Chrome OS (if you can count it...small user base) and Android.


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## Arras (Apr 4, 2014)

JPhantom said:


> too be absolutely fair to qwerty most people using a keyboard when keyboards first it came out did do programming so it was logical to have the semicolon a default key
> 
> and to the people saying microsoft like's to change for the sake of change you are wrong. They like change for the sake of license fees. If they kept up the updates on xp it would still be perfectly useable but they want to make money so they arbitrarily limit software to not run on that os and introduce another os with just enough visible changes to claim it is a new os. metro is pretty much the only visible change from 7. going back on it by adding a start menu really sends the message that upgrading to win 8 is not necessary which is a horrible message to send from the perspective of the bottom line.


Programming on a typewriter?


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## FAST6191 (Apr 4, 2014)

Barring MS basically taking the XBMC idea and running with it, something that seems unlikely given they have had the chance for years and years at this point, if you ever catch me with a windows8 TV then tell me I have failed. Obvious exception if it happens to be a better screen but I am not betting on that happening.


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## vbkun (Apr 4, 2014)

techboy said:


> That would be fine for tablets, but if you consider that most people with Win8 have a PC, which has no button below the screen, then this is a terrible idea (I don't count the keyboard, since that's not the same).
> 
> In addition, everyone else in the PC and mobile market already knew what MS is now learning...that one interface is not suitable for all devices. Think about why Apple didn't put OS X on iPads or iOS on a Mac. Ditto for Google with Chrome OS (if you can count it...small user base) and Android.


 

Agree with you, one interface doesn't fit all, was just saying to why I think they done it (and had just realized it).  

In a certain way the whole metro was a "peak into future interface for desktops" they failed miserable thou because "ow wait... that future isn't here yet o.O", for example, start buttons bellow all screens.

As I noticed from day 1 with windows 8 they missed interface "conditions", such as:

"ok this is windows pro, there is a start button bellow screen = hide start button | else 'show f**** start button'"

"ok user is using a mouse and right clicked.... pop up menu 'not' stupid ribbon at bottom of screen"


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## Garro (Apr 4, 2014)

I guess I'll be the only one skipping this update.


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## Ulieq (Apr 4, 2014)

They should of just called the damn thing Windows 9, and ditched 8 as the worst OS ever created.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 4, 2014)

Ulieq said:


> They should of just called the damn thing Windows 9, and ditched 8 as the worst OS ever created.



It was easy enough to make something more than functional out of contemporary hardware and windows 8. Now it was a few years back and I had a few less skills but I even today I think I would struggle to do a good windows ME or good vista install on what would then have been contemporary hardware (give or take the windows server version that went along with vista, that is not bad), in ME's case I would probably struggle to get it working well on whatever the best hardware had drivers for ME ever was.


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## Lestworth (Apr 5, 2014)

You mean windows realized that touchscreen tower computers are not a majority in everyones houses

WHO KNEW!!! =O!!!


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## 2ndApex (Apr 5, 2014)

Arras said:


> To be fair something like Dvorak is much better than Qwerty... I mean, seriously, one of your fingers is on the semicolon by default. That's literally only a good thing if you're a programmer. But trying to move people away from Qwerty will be pretty much fucking impossible. It'll be like the Windows 8 thing but a million times worse.


 

Funny that you should mention it because I started practicing Dvorak last week lol, it's still a bit awkward but I can see why this is considered a much better system because the vowel and punctuation placement just makes so much more sense.


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## JPhantom (Apr 5, 2014)

2nd apex well most studies i've seen show little to no difference in typing speed based on layout including with completely random layouts

and to arras and twilinx yes qwerty was developed on typewriters but the layout of many of the keys outside the letters and numbers was in relative flux from 1898 till the computer age. in fact for sometime there was no semicolon you printed a colon and a comma in the same spot and no 0 or 1 keys. the rest of the qwerty layout we see commonly including most of the punctuation was pretty much up to the keyboard producers as there was not anything that could be argued as a standard really as it varied from typewriter to typewriter. so yes when we got the layout we see today was because the first computer keyboard users were frequently programming in languages that ended statements with semicolons


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## KingBlank (Apr 5, 2014)

I think windows 8 is the most disgusting abomination of an OS.
I cringe when i hear people saying they won't be "upgrading" to windows 8 as if it could even be considered an upgrade from windows XP.
That was just me venting some pent up emotions.

Its sad that Microsoft have created an desktop OS worse than the ones they made 10 years ago and at this rate it will take 10 years for them to make it better than windows 7.

EDIT: Yeah, i went a bit overboard here, windows 8 gets me all emotional


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## RiPPn (Apr 5, 2014)

It's not the crying on the internet getting the changes, it's the lack of sales.  Just like the Xbox One, Microsoft likes to make people think they are listening to their customers, but what they are listening to is the money, or lack thereof.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 5, 2014)

Are the two really mutually exclusive RiPPn?


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## osirisjem (Apr 5, 2014)

omega59 said:


> They should give people an option to want the metro or classic win7 interface/start menu. Yes they brought it back, but I still don't care for the tile crap. M$ give us better options not force us to use any part of metro including that startmenu metro crap!


 
This.

Anyone with two brain cells could have predicted that getting rid of the start menu was going to be a failure.
And to force it on people ?
It's like Microsoft isn't even trying.
/facepalm


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## DTGS (Apr 5, 2014)

Microsoft should've just been like.. "Don't like our changes? Well suck it up."


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## codezer0 (Apr 5, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> I never understood why people bitch about this to begin with. I have Windows 8.1, and its great, you can tap an icon that says desktop (or simply push the window key on your keyboard) and it will bring you to an alternate Windows 7ish desktop with a start menu.


 
Microsoft only brought back the start button, not start menu. There is a fundamental difference. Also, the start menu is friendlier to power users and computing veterans... The umpteen billion Linux distros would not have been doing their best to ape this system if it wasn't effective and seen as valuable. The only company who has abstained from anything resembling what we know as the Start Menu, is Apple.


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## Zeliga (Apr 5, 2014)

Finally! I have been waiting for this for like.. 4-5 weeks ago.


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## VashTS (Apr 5, 2014)

im going to upgrade my laptop to windows 7. i really wanted to give 8 a fair chance this 2nd time. i couldn't do it. even with a start menu it sucks balls.


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## Ulieq (Apr 6, 2014)

No start menu still?!  Shit, microsoft better forget the OS business.


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## Sterling (Apr 6, 2014)

PityOnU said:


> It's a shame that Microsoft is slowly backpeddling on all of the strong decisions they've made over the past couple of years.
> 
> They've added the start menu back in to appease the people who haven't bought Windows 8 yet and keep saying "I want the start menu noooo  it's so stupid it's not there wtf M$ u dumb," but the fact of the matter is that those people aren't going to buy it anyway, the start menu was just a scapegoat (YUGIOH!!!).
> 
> ...


 
I became a "power user" because Windows 8 sucked so much... On my own machines. When it comes to actually working on these machines, finding what programs the customer does and doesn't have becomes a nightmare. In fact, Windows 8 in its entirety is a gigantic tech nightmare. I can't even get an 8.1 ISO to used the integrated refresh in an upgraded windows 8 machine. That, and actually getting to the boot order or BIOS consistently now requires getting to Start Up Repair and waiting (shut down 3 times and wait, or have intimate knowledge on every machine's manufacturer hotkey).


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## Mario92 (Apr 6, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> I never understood why people bitch about this to begin with. I have Windows 8.1, and its great, you can tap an icon that says desktop (or simply push the window key on your keyboard) and it will bring you to an alternate Windows 7ish desktop with a start menu.


 
It's really simple to make computer to boot up straight to desktop. http://imgur.com/Ar3nKGS
If that weren't there I would be insane by now. Because of that option metro acts just like regular start menu that it'll show up only when needed and closes immidiately when things are done. 

EDIT: Oh sweet! I just noticed that top option disables that stupid quick menu from right which I literally never use! <3


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## Pleng (Apr 6, 2014)

I think the biggest issue with Metro was that people felt that it was forced upon them, and Microsoft are kind of caught in a 'what is it we actually want to do' situation. They are both trying to drum up software support for their mobile OS, and continue profit on their desktop OS.

Now to drum up support on their mobile OS the best strategy would have clearly been to release the Metro environment for free as an update to Windows 7. However, if Metro was seen as a "must-have" then by releasing it for free to users of an existing OS would have obviously slowed take-up of Windows 8. It wasn't seen as a must-have (because, well, it isn't) and therefore Microsoft made a big strategy mistake.

Had Metro been released for Win7, and had also been completely optional at the beginning of the Win8 lifecycle, then both Metro and Win8 would have had faster take-up rates (as Win8 has enough features to sell on it's own merits, regardless of Metro)

Case in point: I was working on a project to rewrite a piece of software that was nearing obsolescence - the code base was too buggy to maintain and it needed redoing from the ground up. The software in question was a desktop WinForms application - but moving forward we wanted to have the software available to run on tablet computers, and perhaps smartphones, too. This left us with realistic options; A Metro application or an Android application. It probably doesn't take too much work to figure which way that one went... but if the Metro application would also have worked on any existing Windows 7 install, then the decision would have been a *lot* more difficult.


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## depat (Apr 6, 2014)

yesssssss finally the new ceo is looking a microsoft and saying, ballmer you are so full of shit i have so much to fix and the new windows update is just the proof the ballmer was a old fashioned ceo


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## SickPuppy (Apr 7, 2014)

Microsoft must be trying to boost sales of Win8, why else the change? Look at the advertised features of the XBOX One before it's release, needs to always be online, they shit canned that idea because of all the collective bitching and crying from the internet.


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## Zerousen (Apr 7, 2014)

Honestly, I don't mind Windows 8, all it needs is a bit of modification and it's pretty much the same as Windows 7. Gonna be using it as my main OS when the rest of my computer parts are delivered.


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## Kwartel (Apr 7, 2014)

Great for the manners, but no way in hell I'm going back to that shit. Modern UI is great and as user of both a normal pc as a Surface RT, I can say that W8.1 is great on touch and keyboard/mice devices. And without those classic shell shit and alternatives. Start using it, make icons small and if you don't want to have to overlap a running program to start something for monitoring purposes: winkey+S


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## kirbymaster101 (Apr 7, 2014)

start8 ftw


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## nl255 (Apr 8, 2014)

Kwartel said:


> Great for the manners, but no way in hell I'm going back to that shit. Modern UI is great and as user of both a normal pc as a Surface RT, I can say that W8.1 is great on touch and keyboard/mice devices. And without those classic shell shit and alternatives. Start using it, make icons small and if you don't want to have to overlap a running program to start something for monitoring purposes: winkey+S


 
Oh really, then why to just run Solitaire do you have to go into the Games store and search for it and then finally you can click play.  The old start menu or even a "my apps/my games" function like the Xbox 360 has would be much better but no, you have to do everything from the store.  Imagine if in order to run any Xbox game whether from disc or downloaded you had to go into the Xbox Live store and run it from there, no more "run disc" icon.


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## Yepi69 (Apr 8, 2014)

With or without start menu, I don't give a shit, still not gonna upgrade to Windows 8 nor 8.1.
My laptop came with Windows 8 and it had terrible compatibility with games I would install (yes I'm aware of compatibility mode, that didn't work either) even bought games from Steam and still didn't work, upgraded to 8.1 and it got even worse in terms of compatibility.
The system is fast, beautiful but doesn't please me in some aspects, I rather use my old Windows 7 and its almost-perfect compatibility and beautiful UI.


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## nl255 (Apr 8, 2014)

Yepi69 said:


> With or without start menu, I don't give a shit, still not gonna upgrade to Windows 8 nor 8.1.
> My laptop came with Windows 8 and it had terrible compatibility with games I would install (yes I'm aware of compatibility mode, that didn't work either) even bought games from Steam and still didn't work, upgraded to 8.1 and it got even worse in terms of compatibility.
> The system is fast, beautiful but doesn't please me in some aspects, I rather use my old Windows 7 and its almost-perfect compatibility and beautiful UI.


 
Well I just grabbed the 90 day evaluation version of Windows 8.1 from Microsoft and installed it in Virtualbox to test it out. I am currently using Windows 7 Ultimate and plan on keeping it that way.  The only good thing about Windows 8.1 that I have found is that you don't need to install the guest additions to make mouse integration work as apparently Windows 8.1 has support for Virtualbox built in.


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## Arras (Apr 8, 2014)

nl255 said:


> Oh really, then why to just run Solitaire do you have to go into the Games store and search for it and then finally you can click play. The old start menu or even a "my apps/my games" function like the Xbox 360 has would be much better but no, you have to do everything from the store. Imagine if in order to run any Xbox game whether from disc or downloaded you had to go into the Xbox Live store and run it from there, no more "run disc" icon.


You're doing it wrong. As long as Solitaire is installed (which you do need to do from the Windows Store first, true) you can start it like any other app - by looking for it in all programs, typing part of the name or pinning it to your start screen.


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## nl255 (Apr 8, 2014)

Arras said:


> You're doing it wrong. As long as Solitaire is installed (which you do need to do from the Windows Store first, true) you can start it like any other app - by looking for it in all programs, typing part of the name or pinning it to your start screen.


 
Finally found it.  Of course, Stardock still hasn't sent the emails for the start8/modernmix trial versions yet for some reason.


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## Tomobobo (Apr 8, 2014)

The windows 8 ui is terrible. 

There's no excuse for mucking up everything as badly as they have.  

I want to know who thought it was a good idea to have to fucking hover your fucking mouse over a certain fucking part of the screen to bring up key functionality of your operating system.


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## Mario92 (Apr 9, 2014)

Tomobobo said:


> The windows 8 ui is terrible.
> 
> There's no excuse for mucking up everything as badly as they have.
> 
> I want to know who thought it was a good idea to have to fucking hover your fucking mouse over a certain fucking part of the screen to bring up key functionality of your operating system.


 
That sounds like guy who just tested regular 8 in virtualbox. Do you even know what you are talking about? Windows 8.1 UI is pretty much same from 7 outside metro as stated doesn't even need to be used. Hovering mouse a certain part? If you mean that right side panel it's coming either by going right-up or right-down corner, no need to hover and it's possible to disable it completely. Only thing actually even in there is shut down button.

Which brings me to say that update just came. Shut down button is now right there visible instead of hidden under that right side panel under settings. 
Microsoft Store was pinned to my task bar. Metro apps now have minimize and close buttons but can't be runned in window however. Not big deal as Microsoft Store is one of the only few metro app I have installed.


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## nl255 (Apr 9, 2014)

Mario92 said:


> That sounds like guy who just tested regular 8 in virtualbox. Do you even know what you are talking about? Windows 8.1 UI is pretty much same from 7 outside metro as stated doesn't even need to be used. Hovering mouse a certain part? If you mean that right side panel it's coming either by going right-up or right-down corner, no need to hover and it's possible to disable it completely. Only thing actually even in there is shut down button.
> 
> Which brings me to say that update just came. Shut down button is now right there visible instead of hidden under that right side panel under settings.
> Microsoft Store was pinned to my task bar. Metro apps now have minimize and close buttons but can't be runned in window however. Not big deal as Microsoft Store is one of the only few metro app I have installed.


 
No updates yet and no hacks like start8 or classic shell and not using the desktop at all yet.  At least Asphalt 8 works well with WineD3D (which is what Vbox uses for Direct3D support) and mouse integration is built in.


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## osirisjem (Apr 9, 2014)

Mario92 said:


> *Metro apps now have minimize and close buttons* but can't be runned in window however.


 

After using Windows 8 for 10 seconds, I said leaving out a close / minimize button was a Royal fuck up.
Microsoft really sucks.
Their slow death is inevitable.


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## Tattorack (Apr 9, 2014)

Yay... I suppose? I've been using Classic Shell as my Startmenu, works fine for me.


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## GameWinner (Apr 10, 2014)

Nevermind, I thought this was the EoF.


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## Tattorack (Apr 11, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> After using Windows 8 for 10 seconds, I said leaving out a close / minimize button was a Royal fuck up.
> Microsoft really sucks.
> Their slow death is inevitable.


Not if Bill Gates still owns it.
He got enough money to pay for the most expensive life-support systems.


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## Nyancat (May 11, 2014)

YES!! Start menu is back! Big help BOOM.


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## filfat (May 12, 2014)

Well, i must be the only one who don't mind that the start button is gone. I would have been mad if it was replaced with something worse, but Metro is much better search is faster, you don't need to play hide n seek to find the application you want to execute. Plus we also got a whole new platform to develop applications for, and on top of that the UI matches Windows Phone, Xbox, and Zune(That expensive mp4 player).


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## nl255 (May 12, 2014)

filfat said:


> Well, i must be the only one who don't mind that the start button is gone. I would have been mad if it was replaced with something worse, but Metro is much better search is faster, you don't need to play hide n seek to find the application you want to execute. Plus we also got a whole new platform to develop applications for, and on top of that the UI matches Windows Phone, Xbox, and Zune(That expensive mp4 player).


 
However you do have to skip past a page of irrelevant crap such as stocks, news, and weather every time you want to access your apps.  Not to mention the other limits of Metro that are a pain to work around.  For example, no browser addons allowed (and you are limited to MSIE only) so you have to install CFW on your router and set up dnsmasq based ad blocking.  Had to set up a pop3 to imap proxy on my Linux based server because the mail app doesn't support pop3.  Oh, and no Libreoffice/Openoffice so you have to choose between paying lots of $$$ for MS Office or being limited to Google Docs.  Oh, and typing on a touchscreen monitor gets quite painful after a while.  Shall I go on?


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## FAST6191 (May 12, 2014)

Many a time I have to figure out some way to get exchange* onto something more civilised and many a time have I moaned about a lack of IMAP on a given server. Never really been nostalgic for POP3 though.

*if your searches have led you here then I highly suggest http://davmail.sourceforge.net/

Also I dare say you are confusing the ARM product with the X86 family product.


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## Arras (May 12, 2014)

nl255 said:


> However you do have to skip past a page of irrelevant crap such as stocks, news, and weather every time you want to access your apps. Not to mention the other limits of Metro that are a pain to work around. For example, no browser addons allowed (and you are limited to MSIE only) so you have to install CFW on your router and set up dnsmasq based ad blocking. Had to set up a pop3 to imap proxy on my Linux based server because the mail app doesn't support pop3. Oh, and no Libreoffice/Openoffice so you have to choose between paying lots of $$$ for MS Office or being limited to Google Docs. Oh, and typing on a touchscreen monitor gets quite painful after a while. Shall I go on?


...seriously, there's a desktop button you can use and install whatever the hell you want to. Just use the metro thing as only a menu and there's no issues. And you can uninstall the stocks, weather, news etc. You can uninstall everything except Camera, Settings, Photos and the Store itself.


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## nl255 (May 17, 2014)

Arras said:


> ...seriously, there's a desktop button you can use and install whatever the hell you want to. Just use the metro thing as only a menu and there's no issues. And you can uninstall the stocks, weather, news etc. You can uninstall everything except Camera, Settings, Photos and the Store itself.


 
The whole point of it was to use it the way it was intended, pure stock (but with updates) and not using that backwards compatibility "desktop" mode which will most likely be removed in Windows 9 in favor of a Virtual Windows 7 mode or possibly a limited API translation layer similar to Crossover.


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## Arras (May 17, 2014)

nl255 said:


> The whole point of it was to use it the way it was intended, pure stock (but with updates) and not using that backwards compatibility "desktop" mode which will most likely be removed in Windows 9 in favor of a Virtual Windows 7 mode or possibly a limited API translation layer similar to Crossover.


There is no fucking way they'll remove the desktop in W9 after what happened with 8, seriously. That would be equivalent to suicide.


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