# January 6th hearings



## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

I'm surprised that this hasn't been created a threat yet for it.
Hearings and Trials are different. Hearings are used before courts or higher body (In this case, before referring to to the Department Of Justice)

Since this is a ongoing thing, I'll be updating this thread with edits with later hearings. With timestamps for when the hearing starts. (since a lot of news stations like talking before the actual hearings start.)
1st hearing

timestamp is 1:06:41 for those where the link isn't working correctly
2nd hearing

timestamp 31:08
3rd

timestamp 52:17
4th

5th day

time stamp 37:27
Surprise hearing (6th hearing)

7th hearing

8th

9th (timestamp:1:30:10)


final hearing


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## Creamu (Jun 21, 2022)

It's just a scripted reality TV spectacle. Nothing will come of it.


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## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

Creamu said:


> It's just a reality TV spectacle. Nothing will come of it.


DOJ is asking for transcripts
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...-request-for-jan-6-panel-transcripts-00040267
so no, not spectacle. If the department of justice is asking for it, without even being referred, it means they have a ongoing investigation already ongoing most likely.
Edit: here's npr https://www.npr.org/2022/06/16/1105...wants-to-see-the-jan-6-committees-transcripts


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## Creamu (Jun 21, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> DOJ is asking for transcripts
> https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...-request-for-jan-6-panel-transcripts-00040267
> so no, not spectacle. If the department of justice is asking for it, without even being referred, it means they have a ongoing investigation already ongoing most likely.
> Edit: here's npr https://www.npr.org/2022/06/16/1105...wants-to-see-the-jan-6-committees-transcripts


All of this is designed to occupy your mind with stuff that will lead to literally nothing. I have heard the first season of true detective should be good. Just a suggestion.


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## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

Creamu said:


> All of this is designed to occupy your mind with stuff that will lead to literally nothing. I have heard the first season of true detective should be good. Just a suggestion.


Have you watched the hearings yourself? If not, why? Was it because someone told you to not watch it? If so, why did they tell you to not watch it?


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## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

Creamu said:


> All of this is designed to occupy your mind with stuff that will lead to literally nothing. I have heard the first season of true detective should be good. Just a suggestion.


Because I'm under the impression someone or more so a political ideology told you to not watch the trial for yourself, because it's "nothing"
If someone tells you something is nothing or not worth your time, you should always check at least once, using your ears and head to decide if it really is nothing.
And in my case I took what time I had to watch it, and it's definitely not nothing. There's a fuck ton of new evidence that I hadn't even heard or seen.


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## Creamu (Jun 21, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Have you watched the hearings yourself? If not, why? Was it because someone told you to not watch it? If so, why did they tell you to not watch it?










> In Philadelphia, liberals gather to experience the first Jan. 6 hearing together
> 
> About an hour before the first prime time hearing of the House committee investigating the attack on the U.S. Capitol, people began to trickle into the courtyard of a northwest Philadelphia church.
> 
> ...



https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1104...o-experience-the-first-jan-6-hearing-together

This is a media spectacle and is not meant to put your attention on to anything of consequence, to the contrary.


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## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

Creamu said:


> This is a media spectacle and is not meant to put your attention on to anything of consequence, to contrary.


It appears to me you didn't bother reading your own article
"They were there for a community watch event, one of roughly 90 organized by liberal activists, urging people to gather to watch the rare, televised evening hearing together."
Keywords "activists"
Of course people are going to group up, that's what people, you know, do??? social species? we coordinate? Unless your telling me you don't interact with anyone at all.
That doesn't make it a "media spectacle" because people decided to group, and urge people to watch hearings. That's like saying if activists go request people to do a sit in, and they do it, that it's "spectacle" it's not.
it's to get a point across.
Or it's like saying that when pearl harbor happened and everyone listened in, or got together to hear it that it's a "media spectacle" for the speech.
Edit:
I'll ask it again, have you seen it yourself? At least produce your thoughts after watching. Since if it's so bs, you should be able to point to when or how it's bs/media spectacle with timestamps for each time.


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## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

snipped for double


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## Creamu (Jun 21, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Or it's like saying that when peral harbor happened and everyone listened in, or got together to hear it that it's a "media spectacle" for the speech.


Pearl habor was used to convince the american populus to engage in warfare with japan. The american leaders had foreknowledge of the attack but did not intervene.

You are convinced that this obvious media specticale is meant to infrom you. Maybe after the dust has settled you can reevaluate.


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## Nothereed (Jun 21, 2022)

Creamu said:


> You are convinced that this obvious meda specticale is meant to infrom you. Maybe after the dust has settles you can reevaluate.


Let me repeat my question, since you've dodge it. Have you watched it yourself?
If your party tells you it's nothing, and you listen to it, and do nothing to double check it. then well... this applies to you

"In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy." --George Orwell

You are refusing to read, look, or watch material necessary to make your own judgement. You are deciding to listen to that party, and believe that 2+2=5, or that this hearing is nothing. You are not looking to challenge it. That is in itself, genuinely Orwellian.
I actively avoided listening to any media figure heads talking about the trial. I didn't want them to make my decision or hear snippets or clips of it. The whole thing. Why? So if those same figure heads says something bs, or out of context I can challenge it, I can also decide if it really is bs by how much filler there is. And there isn't a whole lot of filler in this hearings from a critical standpoint.


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## Creamu (Jun 21, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Let me repeat my question, since you've dodge it. Have you watched it yourself?


No.


Nothereed said:


> If your party tells you it's nothing, and you listen to it, and do nothing to double check it. then well... this applies to you


I have no party. Parties are there to occupy your mind with a fake conflict. The romans and greeks understood this as the caduceus, it is an ancient trick.
Also check:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/left-vs-right-the-hidden-tribes-study.613949/
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-u-s...-way-back-from-the-brink-yascha-mounk.613693/


Nothereed said:


> "In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy." --George Orwell


The american left and right are the same. The left is moving foreward and the right is following with a little bit of latency.


Nothereed said:


> You are refusing to read, look, or watch material necessary to make your own judgement. And instead, you are listening to a ideology, with nothing to challenge it.  That is in itself, genuinely Orwellian.


I know this bullshit too well, that is all.


Nothereed said:


> I actively avoided listening to any media figure heads talking about the trial. I didn't want them to make my decision or hear snippets or clips of it. The whole thing. Why? So if those same figure heads says something bs, or out of context I can challenge it, because it doesn't hurt to double check if you were wrong.


The TV will not educate you.


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## Creamu (Jun 21, 2022)

Hey,

look at this media event as long as you enjoy it. If you don't like it I strongly recommend you being extra critical about whether the whole thing is a sham. If you come to the conculsion that it is a sham, you can move on.


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

The Orwell version was cooler if you ask me.


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> The TV will not educate you.


No TV generally won't. But if we have literately 6 days of hearings, the DOJ asking for call transcripts from said hearings. AND new evidence live? That's no longer "just TV" that is a historical event happening.


Creamu said:


> have no party. Parties are there to occupy your mind with a fake conflict.


Bullshit on your claim that you have no party. You can push yourself away from one as much as you want. But I'm pretty sure you politically align with one. why?



Creamu said:


> No



and this is why. Right wingers commonly state they do not have a party. Even myself, someone who does not like democrats or republicans. I have a party. Which is green party. That is the party I most closely align with on a ideological level.
Within your ideology, fox news, their go to source, did not air it. Stating it was a sham. This is the reason why I could tell before you even said no, that you did not watch it.


Creamu said:


> If you don't like it I strongly recommend you being extra critical about whether the whole thing is a sham. If you come to the conculsion that it is a sham, you can move on.


"if you come to my conclusion, then we can move on" that's a gross strongman argument from someone who has not even looked at the material. 

If this is as much of a sham as you think it is, then go watch it. Seriously, prove it to me that's it's a sham. Go point by point on how the hearing is wrong. If you cannot do that, then your not using your brain. You are turning it off, and differing to listening to whoever is in your circle without question. And that's extremely dangerous.


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## MariArch (Jun 22, 2022)

Lmao. If you're still talking about 500 people going into the capital and dancing on Nancy Pelosi's desk more than a year later you're a schizo. While Americans are paying double on gas than last year and inflation is going through the roof, democrats can't help but talk about Trump. Being this out of touch with the people whilst we're on the brink of recession is going to cost them big at the ballot box  in 2022 and 2024.


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> No TV generally won't. But if we have literately 6 days of hearings, the DOJ asking for call transcripts from said hearings. AND new evidence live? That's no longer "just TV" that is a historical event happening.


It's a sham, but you will see for yourself. You are intelligent and strongwilled, I hope you will put it to good use.


Nothereed said:


> Bullshit on your claim that you have no party. You can push yourself away from one as much as you want. But I'm pretty sure you politically align with one. why?


This is how they look to me:







Nothereed said:


> and this is why. Right wingers commonly state they do not have a party. Even myself, someone who does not like democrats or republicans. I have a party. Which is green party. That is the party I most closely align with on a ideological level.
> Within your ideology, fox news, their go to source, did not air it. Stating it was a sham. This is the reason why I could tell before you even said no, that you did not watch it.
> 
> "if you come to my conclusion, then we can move on" that's a gross strongman argument from someone who has not even looked at the material.


It's not an argument it's more of a bet. See for yourself. You will see.


Nothereed said:


> If this is as much of a sham as you think it is, then go watch it. Seriously, prove it to me that's it's a sham.


I believe you will come to that conclusion without me holding your hand. Hey, maybe I'm wrong, you'll be the judge.


Nothereed said:


> Go point by point on how the hearing is wrong. If you cannot do that, then your not using your brain. You are turning it off, and differing to listening to whoever is in your circle without question. And that's extremely dangerous.


We need to focus on things that matter.


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> The Orwell version was cooler if you ask me.


Think you missed a image



Body armor, guns.




Tell me, do leftists come with body amor and riot shields when "peacefully protesting?"

Do leftists shout to hang current officials?

Does leftists shout about how they are going to go "hunting" of their other peers with a fucking shot gun?
How about the conflation of terms?
"Has no tagging and bagging limit"
In that specific phrasing
means people. Not animals. Hunting people. Actual hunters will say bag limit. Not bagging limit.
All of these people are part of the same ideology. It's consistently consistent with each other,and consistently inconsistent on policy.


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Think you missed a image
> View attachment 314789
> Body armor, guns.
> View attachment 314790
> ...





> FBI arrests Antifa/BLM activist for participation in Capitol riot, seen on video inciting people to “get this s—t burned.”


https://notthebee.com/article/fbi-a...n-video-inciting-people-to-get-this-st-burned


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## alt_Human (Jun 22, 2022)

Tip. Just let this entire thread just die. It's pointless. People aren't going to see eye to eye. Youi'd think the right would start to question why while the rest of the world is watching the hearings, Fox continues to air re-runs of Biden falling on his bicycle. But nope. Convincing the Always Trumpers will NEVER happen. Anyone trying is wasting their time.


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> https://notthebee.com/article/fbi-a...n-video-inciting-people-to-get-this-st-burned


Really? why do you trust this source? What makes it credible, since now you just gave me and everyone a random source no one has heard of. Oh and this doesn't help your case either




Big tech, woke twitter mobs, all in the same sentences screams immediate bias. This is what the far right screams.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...icted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-an-0
If this was true that it was antifa. Why would white supremisist groups were charged
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/02/972564176/antifa-didnt-storm-the-capitol-just-ask-the-rioters

And why would the very rioters say that Antifa wasn't present?
If you want me to believe that, your going to have to explain these inconsistencies.


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Really? why do you trust this source? What makes it credible, since now you just gave me and everyone a random source no one has heard of. Oh and this doesn't help your case either
> View attachment 314795
> Big tech, woke twitter mobs, all in the same sentences screams immediate bias.
> https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...icted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-an-0
> ...


Choose any source you like:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=januray+6+FBI+agents&t=h_&ia=web


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## MariArch (Jun 22, 2022)

alt_Human said:


> Tip. Just let this entire thread just die. It's pointless. People aren't going to see eye to eye. Youi'd think the right would start to question why while the rest of the world is watching the hearings, Fox continues to air re-runs of Biden falling on his bicycle. But nope. Convincing the Always Trumpers will NEVER happen. Anyone trying is wasting their time.


Convincing Trumpers of what? What are they trying to convince people of? That people going into the capital is bad? I don't think people need convincing of that.

My question to you is, if this isn't all showmanship, why haven't they charged Trump with anything? Because they have nothing. You are so gullible if you don't think this is just some backfiring attempt to tell people "vote for me!". Spoiler alert. all polling shows Democrats are about to lose hard in the house and senate, so they're not convincing anyone despite their best efforts.


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Choose any source you like:
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=januray+6+FBI+agents&t=h_&ia=web


Your literately giving a bias search. your looking up for a conspiracy.
here let me give you a better search request instead
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=januray+6+FBI+agents+true+or+false?&t=h_&ia=web


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

MariArch said:


> My question to you is, if this isn't all showmanship, why haven't they charged Trump with anything? Because they have nothing.


False, they haven't done it primarily because for political tactical reasons. See let's be honest. If they decided to refer DOJ right off the bat, you would immediately argue that this is a witch hunt. So they've decided to let DOJ do their own thing, and wait for them to respond. Which clearly, that worked. However given how suddenly they responded, DOJ likely was already doing it's own thing before the hearings relating to this. They don't communicate with each other at all unless it's a specific request.


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Your literately giving a bias search. your looking up for a conspiracy.
> here let me give you a better search request instead
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=januray+6+FBI+agents+true+or+false?&t=h_&ia=web


Fortunalty we have the media that informs us about the dealings of the FBI.


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## MariArch (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> False, they haven't done it primarily because for political tactical reasons. See let's be honest. If they decided to refer DOJ right off the bat, you would immediately argue that this is a witch hunt. So they've decided to let DOJ do their own thing, and wait for them to respond. Which clearly, that worked.


Uh huh. Sure thing buddy. DOJ will definitelyyy do something. 

they probably have their hands full investigating all the soccer moms at school board meetings


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

MariArch said:


> Uh huh. Sure thing buddy. DOJ will definitelyyy do something.


https://www.npr.org/2022/06/16/1105...wants-to-see-the-jan-6-committees-transcripts
Again, DOJ doesn't just _casually_ announce that it wants transcripts from a hearing. When said hearing is about the former president. That doesn't_ just happen_


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## MariArch (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> https://www.npr.org/2022/06/16/1105...wants-to-see-the-jan-6-committees-transcripts
> Again, DOJ doesn't just _casually_ announce that it wants transcripts from a hearing. When said hearing is about the former president. That doesn't_ just happen_


I'm glad to see you're getting your hopes up junior. Will just make it funnier when drumpf ends up back where he was for another 4 year term lol.


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Choose any source you like:


you still have to answer about inconsistencies.


Nothereed said:


> https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...icted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-an-0
> If this was true that it was antifa. Why would white supremisist groups were charged
> https://www.npr.org/2021/03/02/972564176/antifa-didnt-storm-the-capitol-just-ask-the-rioters
> 
> ...


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> you still have to answer about inconsistencies.


This guy is a FBI agent.


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> This guy is a FBI agent.


according to the biased source found from a biased search question. Golly, I can't imagine why it gave you a biased answer all related to your conspiratorial question.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/11/ray...robe-dismisses-claims-of-fbi-involvement.html
“The select committee has interviewed Mr. Epps. Mr. Epps informed us that he was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency,” the spokesperson said.


https://web.archive.org/web/2022061...ame-entangled-trump-touted-conspiracy-theory/


"In 2011, Epps was listed as president of the Arizona chapter of the Oath Keepers. The Oath Keepers, founded in 2009, is described by the Anti-Defamation League as “a large but loosely organized collection of anti-government extremists who are part of the broader anti-government ‘Patriot’ movement.” Epps was the primary media contact for the group, granting interviews at the time."


"Ryman noted that an image of Epps appeared to be listed on an FBI website seeking the public’s help in identifying people who may have entered the Capitol but that Epps declined to comment on whether he was the man in the photo."

He was being hunted down by the FBI at that time. How can you be "part of the FBI" if the FBI is actively looking for you. That doesn't make any sense


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> according to the biased source found from a biased search question. Golly, I can't imagine why it gave you a biased answer all related to your conspiratorial question.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/11/ray...robe-dismisses-claims-of-fbi-involvement.html
> “The select committee has interviewed Mr. Epps. Mr. Epps informed us that he was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency,” the spokesperson said.
> ...


Okay. You watch the TV, hegemonic media oulets, the government and when you have uncovered the truth at the end of the spectacle let me know.


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## lokomelo (Jun 22, 2022)

I did not read the first page, but when did the jan 6th invasion became a antifa invasion? If you are not trolling and really believe in that, then you are drinking a real good mushroom tea.



(can I have some?)


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> I did not read the first page, but when did the jan 6th invasion became a antifa invasion? If you are not trolling and really believe in that, then you are drinking a real good mushroom tea.
> 
> 
> 
> (can I have some?)


There are videos of this guy in the building. He is a known and prolific BLM and Antfia activist. I agree that this sounds very odd. How can that be? : D


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## lokomelo (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> There are videos of this guy in the building. He is a known and prolific BLM and Antfia activist.


there are videos of a vegan shaman guy, so that makes the invasion a vegan invasion?


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> there are videos of a vegan shaman guy, so that makes the invasion a vegan invasion?


Yes, it seems that vegans are within the cluster of people that were at this event.


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## alt_Human (Jun 22, 2022)

Where's the "You're dumber than rock and your only sources are conspiracy theory sites and memes." emoji?


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

@lokomelo form this perspective it wouldn't be accurate to call the invasion carnivore, right?


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## lokomelo (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> @lokomelo form this perspective it wouldn't be accurate to call the invasion carnivore, right?


there was no tiger or bears on the video, there was only far right domestically based terrorists.


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Big gangsta shit







He refused to release his footage


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## Nothereed (Jun 22, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Big gangsta shit
> 
> 
> 
> ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Earle_Sullivan#cite_note-marantz-4
"
John Earle Sullivan (born July 18, 1994),[1] also known as Jayden X,[2][unreliable source?] or Activist John,[3] is a political activist and self-identified photojournalist who participated in the 2021 United States Capitol attack.

Before the January 6 attack, Sullivan organized and participated in protests relating to the Black Lives Matter movement, though BLM organizers explicitly disavowed him, even expelling Sullivan from rallies and warning fellow activists to avoid associating with Sullivan.[4][5]

On January 6, Sullivan entered the Capitol and broke a window. He repeatedly shouted encouragement to fellow rioters. Sullivan captured footage of the attack, his own interactions with law enforcement, and the shooting of Ashli Babbitt.[6]"



BLM organizers and protesters disavowed him. Perhaps double check on people your talking about before saying their affiliated and trying to throw the entire thing under the bus wrongfully?


https://www.newyorker.com/news/us-journal/when-reporting-becomes-a-defense-for-rioting
"He has tried to associate himself with the Black Lives Matter movement, but many organizers have disavowed him; others have gone further, accusing him of being an “agent provocateur,” a “con artist,” or a “thrill-seeking instigator.”


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## Creamu (Jun 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> "He has tried to associate himself with the Black Lives Matter movement, but many organizers have disavowed him; others have gone further, accusing him of being an “agent provocateur,” a “con artist,” or a “thrill-seeking instigator.”


Might or might not be a secret agent.


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## Hanafuda (Jun 22, 2022)

I found it quite interesting that the committee has apparently moved on from the actual events of January 6, and instead moved the goalposts to concentrate on alleged efforts by Trump and company to influence electors or have state governors certify their own 'faithful' electors who could be depended on to vote for Trump. This was the big headline on all the news sites today, i.e. focus shifts.

Interesting because 1) what the hell does this have to do with January 6 events, really?, and 2) the Clinton campaign and DNC, Media Matters, MoveOn, and other sources of "Progressive" power engaged vociferously in a similar campaign in 2016 to get electors to vote for Clinton despite the vote tally in their respective states. This was a big story at the time, liberal pundits on the TV and internet bent over backwards to defend those advocating for it, and rationalize the validity of the attempt as something the law would totally permit if the electors decide to vote their consciences, yada yada. It didn't pan out in the end, but neither did Trump's attempt.


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## Lacius (Jun 22, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> 1) what the hell does this have to do with January 6 events, really?


Everything. It was all part of the same concerted effort by Trump to overturn the election by any means necessary.



Hanafuda said:


> 2) the Clinton campaign and DNC, Media Matters, MoveOn, and other sources of "Progressive" power engaged vociferously in a similar campaign in 2016 to get electors to vote for Clinton despite the vote tally in their respective states. This was a big story at the time, liberal pundits on the TV and internet bent over backwards to defend those advocating for it, and rationalize the validity of the attempt as something the law would totally permit if the electors decide to vote their consciences, yada yada. It didn't pan out in the end, but neither did Trump's attempt.


The Clinton campaign conceded the election pretty much immediately. As for talk by others about faithless electors in 2016, that was a conversation about the undemocratic nature of the Electoral College, since Clinton won the popular vote.

Your comments, aside from being whataboutism, are false.


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## lokomelo (Jun 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The Clinton campaign conceded the election pretty much immediately.


Clinton did it, as well as McCain, Bush...

Just by this phrase of yours we can pinpoint the hole from where US democracy is bleeding.

On the long run I believe that US democracy will be fine tho, but US citizens needs to keep their eyes open.


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## Valwinz (Jun 22, 2022)

The clown show hearings

People care more about inflation than this


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## Lacius (Jun 22, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> The clown show hearings.


If you want to call the former president and his supporters clowns, I'd agree with you.



Valwinz said:


> People care more about inflation than this


People can care about more than one thing. It's pretty telling that the only rebuttal to the January 6 hearings appears to be pointing at something else and saying, "Hey, look over there!"


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## Hanafuda (Jun 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Everything. It was all part of the same concerted effort by Trump to overturn the election by any means necessary.
> 
> 
> The Clinton campaign conceded the election pretty much immediately. As for talk by others about faithless electors in 2016, that was a conversation about the undemocratic nature of the Electoral College, since Clinton won the popular vote.
> ...



The faithless elector effort in 2016 was specifically about preventing Trump from becoming President despite the outcome of the election. That's why they called themselves "Hamilton Electors." Federalist 68. It wasn't about the Electoral College being unfair or undemocratic. That was just a pretext in the media. Hamilton _defended_ the Electoral College as  superior because it gave the electors a final chance to defy the voters if they elected an unfit person. Again, that's why the 10 electors who ultimately voted against their state's result called themselves Hamilton Electors.

The Clinton campaign wouldn't comment or denounce the effort and just waited to see whether the Hamilton Electors could really pull it off and force the election into the House. They maintained plausible deniability, and the media gave cover. Of course we all know the Clinton campaign was entirely on the up-and-up, entirely trustworthy. 

I'm not defending Trump's actions after the 2020 election. But the Democrats' feigned outrage that their opponent tried to wrangle the rules and coerce a technical win out of a loss is laughable.

And the use of "whataboutism" as a defense of hypocrisy is akin the Wizard of Oz warning Dorothy not to look behind the curtain.


----------



## Lacius (Jun 22, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> It wasn't about the Electoral College being unfair or undemocratic.


Yeah it was.



Hanafuda said:


> The Clinton campaign wouldn't comment or denounce the effort and just waited to see whether the Hamilton Electors could really pull it off and force the election into the House.


Clinton conceded the election almost immediately, and nobody serious thought she had any chance of winning once the race was called for Trump. There was no real effort to change the results of the election, and there was definitely no effort by the Democratic Party or Clinton campaign. Hell, the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party didn't even attempt recounts; that was Jill Stein.

You're acting like a fool if you think this is anything other than a false equivalent.



Hanafuda said:


> But the Democrats' feigned outrage that their opponent tried to wrangle the rules and coerce a technical win out of a loss is laughable.


The Democratic Party has never tried to steal an election. The Trump campaign has, and the Republican Party has largely endorsed it.



Hanafuda said:


> And the use of "whataboutism" as a defense of hypocrisy is akin the Wizard of Oz warning Dorothy not to look behind the curtain.


There is no hypocrisy, and you're pretty much yelling, "What about...?" Lol.

Edit: Whether or not someone is acting hypocritically (they aren't) would also be irrelevant to whether or not it's whataboutism.


----------



## Hanafuda (Jun 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The Democratic Party has never tried to steal an election.



sure.


----------



## Lacius (Jun 22, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> sure.


Please provide one example in modern history of the Democratic Party trying to steal an election. I've already explained how 2016 certainly doesn't work as an example.

You may not think you're defending Trump's actions in 2020, but that's what you're doing when you're arguing a false equivalency.


----------



## Hanafuda (Jun 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Please provide one example in modern history of the Democratic Party trying to steal an election. I've already explained how 2016 certainly doesn't work as an example.
> 
> You may not think you're defending Trump's actions in 2020, but that's what you're doing when you're arguing a false equivalency.



Nope, I'm out. Sorry, you're too ideologically entrenched for actual discussion. Enjoy the circle jerk.


----------



## Lacius (Jun 22, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Nope, I'm out. Sorry, you're too ideologically entrenched for actual discussion. Enjoy the circle jerk.


It's a sad day when acknowledging the timeline of the 2016 election is characterized as "too ideologically entrenched."

Next time, you might just want to not respond. It'd be less embarrassing for you. Congratulations on getting us to talk about anything other than January 6 though. Mission accomplished.


----------



## mrdude (Jun 23, 2022)

Jan 6 hearings, are nothing but a political stunt from the Dems. Every sane person can see this and it won't make any difference come november when people vote in the mid term elections. The dems are uterlay crap at running a country and it's not just people in the USA that are suffering due to their crazy policies. There's a red wave comming and the sooner the better.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Jan 6 hearings, are nothing but a political stunt from the Dems. Every sane person can see this and it won't make any difference come november when people vote in the mid term elections. The dems are uterlay crap at running a country and it's not just people in the USA that are suffering due to their crazy policies. There's a red wave comming and the sooner the better.


okay so please explain to me why Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Luie Gohmert, Scotty Perry, Majorie Taylor Green ALL where looking for pardons ONTOP OF Mo brooks, sending an email on jan 11, 2021, asking for "all purpose" pardons for _every_ lawmaker who objected to electoral votes from Arizona and Pennsylvania.
Why the fuck would you randomly ask for a pardon _if you did nothing wrong_
That's the kind of shit you do when you know you did something illegal, and your looking for a way out before it becomes a problem.


----------



## mrdude (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> okay so please explain to me why Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Luie Gohmert, Scotty Perry, Majorie Taylor Green ALL where looking for pardons ONTOP OF Mo brooks, sending an email on jan 11, 2021, asking for "all purpose" pardons for _every_ lawmaker who objected to electoral votes from Arizona and Pennsylvania.
> Why the fuck would you randomly ask for a pardon _if you did nothing wrong_
> That's the kind of shit you do when you know you did something illegal, and your looking for a way out before it becomes a problem.


It seems you have already been brainwashed by the left so no matter what anyone tells you it will make no difference to what you already believe. I won't waste my time explaining anything to you about anyone else or their actions as it's not my place to do that. I will tell you that throughtout the world - Biden is seen as a senile old twat with dementia, he has no grip on reality, can barely string a sentence together without messing up and is despised throughout the world and is seen as corrupt as is his crackhead son. As for the other dems - these are some of the most corrupt American politicians I have seen in my lifetime (Clinton should be in prison for treason).
I'll repeat again - these hearings are nothing more than a clown circus to try and detract from the poor way that USA is currently being run. They are fooling nobody with a functioning brain and the dems will find this out in November.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It seems you have already been brainwashed by the left so no matter what anyone tells you it will make no difference to what you already believe. I won't waste my time explaining anything to you about anyone else or their actions as it's not my place to do that. I will tell you that throughtout the world - Biden is seen as a senile old twat with dementia, he has no grip on reality, can barely string a sentence together without messing up and is despised throughout the world and is seen as corrupt as is his crackhead son. As for the other dems - these are some of the most corrupt American politicians I have seen in my lifetime (Clinton should be in prison for treason).
> I'll repeat again - these hearings are nothing more than a clown circus to try and detract from the poor way that USA is currently being run. They are fooling nobody with a functioning brain and the dems will find this out in November.


I'm going to ask you again, because IDC what democrats think. Why the fuck was those individuals looking for a presidential pardon. You don't look for a pardon unless you did something illegal. You can call me branwashed, but that's not going to change the facts here, that those individuals looked for a pardon after January 6th. If you can't answer it, then don't bother responding. Because I'm not taking a response that is the equivalent of "LOOK OVER HERE"


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## mrdude (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I'm going to ask you again, because IDC what democrats think. Why the fuck was those individuals looking for a presidential pardon. You don't look for a pardon unless you did something illegal. You can call me branwashed, but that's not going to change the facts here, that those individuals looked for a pardon after January 6th. If you can't answer it, then don't bother responding. Because I'm not taking a response that is the equivalent of "LOOK OVER HERE"


I already said this:

I won't waste my time explaining anything to you about anyone else or their actions as *it's not my place to do that*.

I am sure thye have their reasons though.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I already said this:
> 
> I won't waste my time explaining anything to you about anyone else or their actions as *it's not my place to do that*.
> 
> I am sure thye have their reasons though.


Their reasons was for january 6th according to a interview with Mo brooks.

here's when it starts.
2:51:23

Crazy that someone would look for a pardon after instigating a false claim about an election and participating in Janaury 6th. Maybe, just a crazy thought, they did something illegal or that could be prosecuted from January 6th. Just a thought.


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## cracker (Jun 24, 2022)

Asking for a pardon or accepting one means that you are agreeing to your guilt. There sure are a lot of people on one side that believe they broke the law. I believe them.


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## mrdude (Jun 24, 2022)

cracker said:


> Asking for a pardon or accepting one means that you are agreeing to your guilt.


No it doesn't, there are many reasons but you'd need to ask each individual person for their reason. In the USA you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. What crime do you think these people have actually commited? and I am sure if they had commited one the witch hunters would already have them banged up in jail with some trumped up charges. As they haven't been charged with anything and are not in prison means there's no laws that they broke and are therefore innocent in the eyes of the law. Just because you have been easily led by biased media and a clown circus doesn't mean anyone is guilty of anything, however I see you are easily manipulated - do you want to buy a bridge?


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## KitChan (Jun 24, 2022)

Creamu said:


> https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1104...o-experience-the-first-jan-6-hearing-together
> 
> This is a media spectacle and is not meant to put your attention on to anything of consequence, to the contrary.


Why aren't they social distancing? Are they trying to spread Covid?


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## lolcatzuru (Jun 24, 2022)

KitChan said:


> Why aren't they social distancing? Are they trying to spread Covid?



if they are democrat they are immune.


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## cracker (Jun 24, 2022)

mrdude said:


> No it doesn't, there are many reasons but you'd need to ask each individual person for their reason. In the USA you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. What crime do you think these people have actually commited? and I am sure if they had commited one the witch hunters would already have them banged up in jail with some trumped up charges. As they haven't been charged with anything and are not in prison means there's no laws that they broke and are therefore innocent in the eyes of the law. Just because you have been easily led by biased media and a clown circus doesn't mean anyone is guilty of anything, however I see you are easily manipulated - do you want to buy a bridge?



I agree that it's a circus and he's the head clown.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 24, 2022)

I don't think the hearings will turn up anything we don't already know.

What we know is that a couple hundred people broke off from hundreds of thousands of mostly peaceful protesters and decided to ransack the Capitol building. There was no plan from Trump for this to take place. It was a spur of the moment thing. Of course rioting is bad and shouldn't be excused and I'm not doing so. The people who trespassed and damaged property are being dealt with. However, it was not some planned insurrection or whatever the leftist media is trying to convince you of this week. Even after the violence started Trump told the rioters and the rest of the peaceful protesters to go home.

Personally, I just have a hard time trying to take 1 riot from the right wing seriously when the media was promoting and glorifying *tens of thousands* of *riots *from the left with their BLM bullshit. Surely if the left overlooks ten of thousands of violent circumstances it would be fair to allow the right to overlook a single one, you'd imagine? However, the left are hypocrites.

You see, I'm an independent so I have an unique view and the ability to criticize both sides and if I'm supposed to overlook tens of thousands of riots from the left, which is what the left is saying to do then why wouldn't I also simply overlook a single one from the other side? Sure, there were different circumstances, but the left clearly sent a message that trespassing, looting, arson, destruction of property and murder would be tolerated if done in the name of BLM. The leftist media glorified the riots from the left and then damned the single riot from the right.

Now after all is said and done we see the leftist media trying to claim that the riots they were praising were all done by the right wing. Where the left finds all of the shit that comes out of their mouths I'll never know. At least the republicans and conservatives own up to the single riot they perpetrated. The left is just full of shit and the voters aren't as dumb as the left claims they are. Hopefully the predictions are correct for the upcoming elections and we'll see less leftists in power after everything is all said and done.


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## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I don't think the hearings will turn up anything we don't already know.
> 
> What we know is that a couple hundred people broke off from hundreds of thousands of mostly peaceful protesters and decided to ransack the Capitol building. There was no plan from Trump for this to take place. It was a spur of the moment thing. Of course rioting is bad and shouldn't be excused and I'm not doing so. The people who trespassed and damaged property are being dealt with. However, it was not some planned insurrection or whatever the leftist media is trying to convince you of this week. Even after the violence started Trump told the rioters and the rest of the peaceful protesters to go home.
> 
> ...


https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/one-year-jan-6-attack-capitol

What you just said? Completely bullshit.
140 officers were injuried in a single day. More than 45 of those rioters had leathal weapons. 275 people were aresseted for the charge of impeding a official process.
5 officers died that day. Minimum of 2,000 people breached the capital building.
Let's now take a look at BLM shall we?



https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...cers-assaulted-and-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

59 officers died. Sounds like a lot. And it is and sucks. But then you have to realize that it's over several months. SEVERAL.(272 days/365)
If you had 5 officers die per day by Jan 6 rioters. You wouldn't even get a full two weeks in before reaching and exceeding that body count. And that's JUST officers.
60,105 officers were assaulted by BLM but only about 2,000 of them were injuried. However not only is that across the fucking country. So local and state police are involved which means even more officcers are in the pool.
 Now if we were to assume that out of those 272 days that BLM was protesting non stop and that was the number
What happens when we multiply 272 days with the amount of officers injuried in a single day by Jan 6th. That's 38,080 injuried.
So straight up no. BLM isn't more leathal or dangerous. The people at January 6 are much more leathal.
Edit: if January 6th rioters "protested" daily. For 272 days. 1,360 officers would of been killed. Or about 23 times more leathal than BLM.


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## mrdude (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> 59 officers died. Sounds like a lot. And it is and sucks. But then you have to realize that it's over several months. SEVERAL.(272 days/365)
> If you had 5 officers die per day by Jan 6 rioters. You wouldn't even get a full two weeks in before reaching and exceeding that body count. And that's JUST officers.
> 60,105 officers were assaulted by BLM but only about 2,000 of them were injuried. However not only is that across the fucking country. So local and state police are involved which means even more officcers are in the pool.
> Now if we were to assume that out of those 272 days that BLM was protesting non stop and that was the number
> ...


Quite a lot of speculation is going on there - non of which is true of course and is nothing at all to do with the clown circus (Jan 6 hearings).

BLM is nothing but an organisation that has basically stolen money from people, the people that run it are con merchants that have bought mansions/property from the funds donated to it - these people should be in prison. Clinton should be in prison for her treason with her fake russian colusion crap (and her dodgy memory when she ran her illegal mail servers). The dems are the party of division and hate and have done a lot to drive a wedge through people - divide and conquer and all that! (not to mention the damage they have caused to the USA economy and are responsible to the high prices being paid just now, and all the bare shelves) They never take responsibility for their actions and always try to blame others for their failings.

During the riots in the USA while Trump was president you didn't hear a peep from the Dems, and infact there were times when parts of the country was going up in flames and people were being murdred - this was referred to as "mostly peacefull" protests.

The 1 policeman (Brian Sicknick) that died after Jan 6 died from a double stroke. An Air force vet was shot by the police (Ashli Babbitt), and the other 3 people that died were Trump supporters - Kevin Greeson died from a heart attack, Rosanne Boyland was killed in a crush, Benjamin Philips died from a stroke.

Your post is disingenuous and is full of speculation and misleading information, try harder, because you are not dealing with idiots on this forum and you will be called out for any more lies to try to pass off as facts.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

KitChan said:


> Why aren't they social distancing? Are they trying to spread Covid?


No, check the notes of the latest firmware update.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Quite a lot of speculation is going on there - non of which is true of course and is nothing at all to do with the clown circus (Jan 6 hearings).
> 
> BLM is nothing but an organisation that has basically stolen money from people, the people that run it are con merchants that have bought mansions/property from the funds donated to it - these people should be in prison. Clinton should be in prison for her treason with her fake russian colusion crap (and her dodgy memory when she ran her illegal mail servers). The dems are the party of division and hate and have done a lot to drive a wedge through people - divide and conquer and all that! (not to mention the damage they have caused to the USA economy and are responsible to the high prices being paid just now, and all the bare shelves) They never take responsibility for their actions and always try to blame others for their failings.
> 
> ...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/03/09/capitol-riot-suicide-police-pension/
"_that Officer Smith sustained a personal injury on January 6, 2021, while performing his duties and that his injury was the sole and direct cause of his death." _District of Columbia's police and firr fighter board ' retirement board concluded that decision.
And you didn't catch that I was only talking police officers. 4 others killed themselves after January 6th, with their mental health heavily declined after being involved. Brainswedick had a stroke after a head injury from "protestors" with the head injury playing a role in his death. But claimed as natural cause. So I'll be nice and not include it. But that still makes the body count 5.
It still also doesn't, change another issue. If you wanna still claim that number is bs, that doesn't change that.  Th_ose people at the capital directly meddled with the certification of an election. That is a coup attempt. And BLM doesn't have that in their track record

_


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## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

Oh and if you listened to hearings, trump suggested that Mike pence should be hanged for not doing what he wanted. What a sound person for a democracy and in no way a wannabe dictator


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## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

Creamu said:


> No, check the notes of the latest firmware update.


Ah right, we get out firmware updates from a needle injected into our arm called a "vaccine"

Crazy technology.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Ah right, we get out firmware updates from a needle injected into our arm called a "vaccine"


TV is sufficiant.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

Creamu said:


> TV is sufficient





Nothereed said:


> Ah right, we get out firmware updates from a needle injected into our arm called a "vaccine"
> 
> Crazy technology.


Ah very sufficient, much subsistence, it gives me food, water, a home, a couch, a wife. It can do anything.

But what does sufficent TV watching have to do with vaccines again? Maybe the glass can be used to be injected into the blood stream


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Ah very sufficient, much subsistence, it gives me food, water, a home, a couch, a wife. It can do anything.
> 
> But what does sufficent TV watching have to do with vaccines again?


It is a vaccine for your brain, it shields you from critical wrong think.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

Creamu said:


> It is a vaccine for your brain, it shields you from critical wrong think.


Ah yes, like how my websites link to far right websites that nobody has heard of. It gives me the strength to avoid critical wrong think and what is right think.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 24, 2022)

Just like how I talk about double agents and what people would call conspiracy theories, I was told right think there. Anything else must be wrong think and is nothing


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Ah yes, like how my websites link to far right websites that nobody has heard of. It gives me the strength to avoid critical wrong think and what is right think.





Nothereed said:


> Just like how I talk about double agents and what people would call conspiracy theories, I was told right think there. Anything else must be wrong think and is nothing


¯\_ (ツ)_/¯


----------



## Jayro (Jun 24, 2022)

Creamu said:


> We need to focus on things that matter.


Holding those accountable for dangerous actions matter to me, quite a lot. And it matters to many other people as well. This isn't a circus for television, it's a hearing to get down to the truth, and eventually punish the guilty criminally.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Holding those accountable for dangerous actions matter to me, quite a lot. And it matters to many other people as well. This isn't a circus for television, it's a hearing to get down to the truth, and eventually punish the guilty criminally.


Okay, will you agree with me when the dust settles and nothing happened?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Just like how I talk about double agents and what people would call conspiracy theories, I was told right think there. Anything else must be wrong think and is nothing


Yeah you shouldn't take his ramblings too seriously, he thinks EHS is real. You know, like Chuck McGill but without the genius intellect.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Yeah you shouldn't take his ramblings too seriously, he thinks EHS is real. You know, like Chuck McGill but without the genius intellect.


Don't know what that is. Do you still deny the palestian genocide?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 24, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Do you still deny the palestian genocide?


I can't deny something that doesn't exist. Unless you think you know better than Amnesty International, or the Red Cross. I don't think you do so yeah, gonna stick with the big guns and leave you in the dust.


Creamu said:


> Don't know what that is


Yes you do, liar. Even set up a group to talk about that nonsense, unless you took it down. More talk about your conspiracy nonsense as well?


----------



## Creamu (Jun 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Creamu said:
> 
> 
> > Do you still deny the palestian genocide?
> ...


¯\_ (ツ)_/¯


----------



## Xzi (Jun 24, 2022)

If Merrick Garland doesn't want to be responsible for the end of democracy in the US, he must prosecute.  Bad enough Democrats didn't prosecute GWB and Cheney for war crimes, which is what resulted in the Trump presidency, but now it's do or die.  Republicans have been setting the stage for a second, successful coup ever since the moment the first one failed.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Have you watched the hearings yourself? If not, why? Was it because someone told you to not watch it? If so, why did they tell you to not watch it?


Not many people are watching. It's an illegitimate committee based on the House's own rules. The American people are more concerned with inflation and food and gas prices.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If Merrick Garland doesn't want to be responsible for the end of democracy in the US, he must prosecute.  Bad enough Democrats didn't prosecute GWB and Cheney for war crimes, which is what resulted in the Trump presidency, but now it's do or die.  Republicans have been setting the stage for a second, successful coup ever since the moment the first one failed.


We live in a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Please go learn the difference.


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## Nothereed (Jun 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Not many people are watching. It's an illegitimate committee based on the House's own rules. The American people are more concerned with inflation and food and gas prices.


Source?
Because here's mine
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/business/media/jan-6-hearing-ratings.html
20 million people. that's football levels.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Source?
> Because here's mine
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/business/media/jan-6-hearing-ratings.html
> 20 million people. that's football levels.


Football games are broadcast on one channel. The J6 hearings are being broadcast on all networks, CNN and MSNBC. One would think that hearings concerning the attempted "coup" and "end of democracy" would generate greater interest in a country of 256+ million adults. Less than 10% of adults even care about these hearings.


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## Nothereed (Jun 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Football games are broadcast on one channel. The J6 hearings are being broadcast on all networks, CNN and MSNBC. One would think that hearings concerning the attempted "coup" and "end of democracy" would generate greater interest in a country of 256+ million adults. Less than 10% of adults even care about these hearings.


Then less than 9% care about football. Which sounds really stupid. and this is where statistical scope can come in.
 Since they're likely measuring only cable viewers, not people who say, watch on youtube. Which means that it's only representing cable viewers. And it's more than 20 million, by the way. That's a low ball estimate.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Then less than 9% care about football. Which sounds really stupid. and this is where statistical scope can come in.
> Since they're likely measuring only cable viewers, not people who say, watch on youtube. Which means that it's only representing cable viewers. And it's more than 20 million, by the way. That's a low ball estimate.


They aired it on all the broadcast networks in prime time, not just cable news stations. These numbers are what these networks pull on any given night. By comparison, presidential debates pull in between 63 million to 73 million viewers.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> We live in a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Please go learn the difference.


Fuck off with that shit.  We live in a democratic republic, the constitution does not elect our leaders.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Fuck off with that shit.  We live in a democratic republic, the constitution does not elect our leaders.


Earlier you said we live in a democracy. Now you say we live in a democratic republic. Did some learning just take place here?


----------



## Xzi (Jun 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Earlier you said we live in a democracy. Now you say we live in a democratic republic. Did some learning just take place here?


Apparently so, if you were somehow unaware that "democratic" and "democracy" are two forms of the same word.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Apparently so, if you were somehow unaware that "democratic" and "democracy" are two forms of the same word.


The key word is republic. That's the part that you are not understanding. Go do some googling and read up on the topic.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 25, 2022)

I'll just snip for now


----------



## Xzi (Jun 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The key word is republic. That's the part that you are not understanding. Go do some googling and read up on the topic.


Let's be honest: it's not a democracy or a republic at this point.  It's an oligarchy and/or a kleptocracy.  The anti-abortion zealots give the oligarchs exactly what they want.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jun 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Let's be honest: it's not a democracy or a republic at this point.  It's an oligarchy and/or a kleptocracy.  The anti-abortion zealots give the oligarchs exactly what they want.


What got taken away is a money stream that Democrat politicians were receiving thru Planned Parenthood killing babies to the tune of $20 million a year in contributions. I can see why you are so pissed at this ruling.


----------



## Dakitten (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> What got taken away is a money stream that Democrat politicians were receiving thru Planned Parenthood killing babies to the tune of $20 million a year in contributions. I can see why you are so pissed at this ruling.


Oh... oh snap, they found us out! Big money in baby murder! Our nest egg is going to dry up! No wonder Musk overtook Bezos as the richest man in the world, without fresh baby blood the Amazon empire cannot compete!

Wait, no, I forgot how that is absolutely insane. I forgot that people like this are complete loony toons who are disconnected from reality at best and sad brainwashed NPCs more often than not. Corrupt corporations bankrolls both sides, to be fair, but the right always seems to be caught taking the majority of it, and the right is also the defender of policies that ensure the rich stay rich.


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 26, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> Oh... oh snap, they found us out! Big money in baby murder! Our nest egg is going to dry up! No wonder Musk overtook Bezos as the richest man in the world, without fresh baby blood the Amazon empire cannot compete!
> 
> Wait, no, I forgot how that is absolutely insane. I forgot that people like this are complete loony toons who are disconnected from reality at best and sad brainwashed NPCs more often than not. Corrupt corporations bankrolls both sides, to be fair, but the right always seems to be caught taking the majority of it, and the right is also the defender of policies that ensure the rich stay rich.


Meanwhile they support the increase of mass shootings of actual people, including kids.


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## Dakitten (Jun 26, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Meanwhile they support the increase of mass shootings of actual people, including kids.


That, good sir, is because they are either dogma-driven foot soldiers out for blood because something is keeping them poor and unsafe and their leaders are telling them it is evil death deserving leftists, or they're status quo loving individuals who operate on the principal of "F U got mine" while spreading misinformation to the prior mentioned folk.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> Oh... oh snap, they found us out! Big money in baby murder! Our nest egg is going to dry up! No wonder Musk overtook Bezos as the richest man in the world, without fresh baby blood the Amazon empire cannot compete!
> 
> Wait, no, I forgot how that is absolutely insane. I forgot that people like this are complete loony toons who are disconnected from reality at best and sad brainwashed NPCs more often than not. Corrupt corporations bankrolls both sides, to be fair, but the right always seems to be caught taking the majority of it, and the right is also the defender of policies that ensure the rich stay rich.


There are so many strawmen in this statement, I hope you don't start a fire. It is a known fact that Planned Parenthood's main source of income is through abortions. It is also a known fact that Planned Parenthood gave over $40 million in 2020 alone. 100% went to Democrats. That's a lot of money that those politicians won't be getting in 2022 and 2024. Cry moar.


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## Dakitten (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> There are so many strawmen in this statement, I hope you don't start a fire. It is a known fact that Planned Parenthood's main source of income is through abortions. It is also a known fact that Planned Parenthood gave over $40 million in 2020 alone. 100% went to Democrats. That's a lot of money that those politicians won't be getting in 2022 and 2024. Cry moar.


You say this while acting like $40m is some kind of game changing figure for a women's health organization... in a country that doesn't provide free health care nor aide for single or even married working mothers with children via child care or even food. That money is a pittance compared to most campaign contributors, and it was to try and help ensure that women's rights continued to be represented. But go ahead, preach from your perch of privilege about how the majority of the country is wrong and you know what is best as rights are taken away. That never ends badly~


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## XDel (Jun 26, 2022)

Our White Supremacist Plans to take the Country back and bring back the plantation are nearly complete, muwah ha ha ha ha ha!


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> You say this while acting like $40m is some kind of game changing figure for a women's health organization... in a country that doesn't provide free health care nor aide for single or even married working mothers with children via child care or even food. That money is a pittance compared to most campaign contributors, and it was to try and help ensure that women's rights continued to be represented. But go ahead, preach from your perch of privilege about how the majority of the country is wrong and you know what is best as rights are taken away. That never ends badly~


Abortion was never a right. That's why it was taken away. The right to life supersedes all other rights. It's sad that a baby's life makes you so angry. Seek help.


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## Dakitten (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Abortion was never a right. That's why it was taken away. The right to life supersedes all other rights. It's sad that a baby's life makes you so angry. Seek help.


The past 50ish years would speak to the contrary. But hey, tell ya what, if you're so concerned about kids and want to ignore the plight of women and the serious health conditions pregnancy and birth in a country with no health care, go adopt a couple kids and raise them solo, then come back to tell your tale. I'll wait.

I've got two kids, and would have had four if circumstances hadn't prevented it. A miscarriage occurred, and the following pregnancy soon after had painful complications that could have gotten exponentially more dangerous. My two children now still have two parents who work very hard to afford them a better life and I have no regrets about the decisions that had to be made. Stupid decisions like this might have lead to a single parent household with MAYBE three kids and gods only know what kinds of complications if the third did make it, so you'd better believe I'm damn angry, and so are the majority of the citizens of the country that just betrayed their trust.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> The past 50ish years would speak to the contrary. But hey, tell ya what, if you're so concerned about kids and want to ignore the plight of women and the serious health conditions pregnancy and birth in a country with no health care, go adopt a couple kids and raise them solo, then come back to tell your tale. I'll wait.
> 
> I've got two kids, and would have had four if circumstances hadn't prevented it. A miscarriage occurred, and the following pregnancy soon after had painful complications that could have gotten exponentially more dangerous. My two children now still have two parents who work very hard to afford them a better life and I have no regrets about the decisions that had to be made. Stupid decisions like this might have lead to a single parent household with MAYBE three kids and gods only know what kinds of complications if the third did make it, so you'd better believe I'm damn angry, and so are the majority of the citizens of the country that just betrayed their trust.


Sorry to hear about your troubled pregnancies. I'm sure your decision was not an easy one to make.

However, this is what happens when activist courts start making up rights out of thin air. Courts cannot create rights. We are born with them. They are protected by the Constitution from the government. That's how it works here. If you want abortion to be protected, pass a Constitutional amendment. It's that easy if you are truly in the majority.


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## Dakitten (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubled pregnancies. I'm sure your decision was not an easy one to make.
> 
> However, this is what happens when activist courts start making up rights out of thin air. Courts cannot create rights. We are born with them. They are protected by the Constitution from the government. That's how it works here. If you want abortion to be protected, pass a Constitutional amendment. It's that easy if you are truly in the majority.


The PEOPLE are in a majority with their wishes, but political power is being centralized and limited more and more to the rich and elite individuals at the top of society. Courts interpret law by the rulings of mortal men with their own biases and objectives, which can grant or restrict rights as we've seen with these wild rapid fire rulings. As a vet who has worked with the Registrar of Voters for several elections, I can assure you that the politicians who push the people who rammed in these rulings in the supreme court were not elected solely by popular want, but bankrolled campaigns in gerrymandered districts to limit the power of democracy.

Most amendments, by the way, only get added after either a war, mass protest, or outright riots. It isn't a simple process, but it may be required in order to serve the public will. I wouldn't wish for it to be necessary, but so it goes.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> The PEOPLE are in a majority with their wishes, but political power is being centralized and limited more and more to the rich and elite individuals at the top of society. Courts interpret law by the rulings of mortal men with their own biases and objectives, which can grant or restrict rights as we've seen with these wild rapid fire rulings. As a vet who has worked with the Registrar of Voters for several elections, I can assure you that the politicians who push the people who rammed in these rulings in the supreme court were not elected solely by popular want, but bankrolled campaigns in gerrymandered districts to limit the power of democracy.
> 
> Most amendments, by the way, only get added after either a war, mass protest, or outright riots. It isn't a simple process, but it may be required in order to serve the public will. I wouldn't wish for it to be necessary, but so it goes.


Supreme Court justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Gerrymandered districts have zero bearing on the election of none of those people. Study up on civics.

You know a good way to stop the centralization of power? Us taking it away from the federal government and giving it back to the states where it belongs, but the left is diametrically opposed to federalism. Centralized totalitarianism is what you strive for. It's what leftists always strive for, whether it's the Soviet Union, Red China or 1930's Germany. The end result of leftism always ends up in starvation and death.


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## Dakitten (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Supreme Court justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Gerrymandered districts have zero bearing on the election of none of those people. Study up on civics.
> 
> You know a good way to stop the centralization of power? Us taking it away from the federal government and giving it back to the states where it belongs, but the left is diametrically opposed to federalism. Centralized totalitarianism is what you strive for. It's what leftists always strive for, whether it's the Soviet Union, Red China or 1930's Germany. The end result of leftism always ends up in starvation and death.


Comrade, the supreme court made it to this point in an effort by the right to consolidate power. Unless you're talking about dissolving the union in order to turn states into independent countries like Texas just did, this has been a transparent display of the system being gamed and centralized by the REPUBLICAN party. Gerrymandered districts leads to state officials being elected without the popular vote of the states they represent, which yields powers and benefits to their parties in those states in even presidential elections let alone seats in the Senate and Congress. Study up on civics. 

You're also completely a disingenuous dick if you think that LEFTISTS are trying to strive for the totalitarianism of the communist boogeymen of the past. Those three governments leaned more towards right wing nationalist policies, and do not apply AT ALL to progressive measures like universal healthcare and gun control laws akin to those hosted in other countries. Leftists are for dismantling systems for stifling democracy and improving the functionality of government, and they are the majority of the population in the United States. You may not like it, but the will of the people is not with you, and I encourage you to consider self reflection on why that is.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> Comrade, the supreme court made it to this point in an effort by the right to consolidate power. Unless you're talking about dissolving the union in order to turn states into independent countries like Texas just did, this has been a transparent display of the system being gamed and centralized by the REPUBLICAN party. Gerrymandered districts leads to state officials being elected without the popular vote of the states they represent, which yields powers and benefits to their parties in those states in even presidential elections let alone seats in the Senate and Congress. Study up on civics.
> 
> You're also completely a disingenuous dick if you think that LEFTISTS are trying to strive for the totalitarianism of the communist boogeymen of the past. Those three governments leaned more towards right wing nationalist policies, and do not apply AT ALL to progressive measures like universal healthcare and gun control laws akin to those hosted in other countries. Leftists are for dismantling systems for stifling democracy and improving the functionality of government, and they are the majority of the population in the United States. You may not like it, but the will of the people is not with you, and I encourage you to consider self reflection on why that is.


Look up federalism. You'll learn that it was the states who created the federal government, not the other way around. One bit of good news for ya though. New York's gerrymandered map got shot down by their state courts and were redrawn. I'd like to see how that's the fault of a gamed and centralized system by the Republican party.

Don't be ashamed of your history. Being a nationalist or globalist has zero bearing on totalitarians, but it is fun watching the left try to dismiss Chairman Mao and Stalin as right wing nationalists. This is one reason why people do not believe you anymore. The left's lies have become so blatant that I've seen people call the Chinese Communist Party capitalists.

So no, I'm not being a dick. I'm just a guy calling out leftist lies on a message board.


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## Marc_LFD (Jun 26, 2022)

MSM has been trying hard to hype this up, but.. meh.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

Trump lied, people died. Simple as. Give him the [REDACTED].


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## SyphenFreht (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Abortion was never a right. That's why it was taken away. The right to life supersedes all other rights. It's sad that a baby's life makes you so angry. Seek help.



The right to life is not in the constitution either.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> The right to life is not in the constitution either.


Furthermore, the constitution is just a piece of paper. We can amend it to say anything and everything we want it to with sufficient power.


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## SyphenFreht (Jun 26, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Furthermore, the constitution is just a piece of paper. We can amend it to say anything and everything we want it to with sufficient power.



We've seen before that popular votes don't matter. I assume lobbying would be the only viable way?


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> The right to life is not in the constitution either.


Is this your real argument or are you just trolling.


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## SyphenFreht (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Is this your real argument or are you just trolling.



What would a real argument be to you?


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> We've seen before that popular votes don't matter. I assume lobbying would be the only viable way?


I'm not looking to get V& for posting what I think our oligarchical slavemasters deserve.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Furthermore, the constitution is just a piece of paper. We can amend it to say anything and everything we want it to with sufficient power.


Then amend it. Since the left are in the majority, it should be easy, right? Instead, the left changes the meaning of words, because you are not in the majority like you believe. The only options the left have now are insurrections in state capitols and burning down pregnancy centers and churches.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Then amend it. Since the left are in the majority, it should be easy, right? Instead, the left changes the meaning of words, because you are not in the majority like you believe. The only options the left have now are insurrections in state capitols and burning down pregnancy centers and churches.


I'm not sure I particularly care for such baseless rhetoric. Quit virtue signalling and actually say what you think.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I'm not looking to get V& for posting what I think our oligarchical slavemasters deserve.


Do you even know who our oligarchical slave masters are?


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Do you even know who our oligarchical slave masters are?


I'm going to laugh really hard if you think the answer is anything other than "both parties."


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I'm not sure I particularly care for such baseless rhetoric. Quit virtue signalling and actually say what you think.


What part or parts are you having problems with, sweetie?


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I'm going to laugh really hard if you think the answer is anything other than "both parties."


The uniparty is just middle managers. They run the day to day operations. Think bigger. Who do they answer to, because we can agree, it isn't We the People.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The uniparty is just middle managers. They run the day to day operations. Think bigger. Who do they answer to, because we can agree, it isn't We the People.


You won't find vaguely gesturing to be effective on a socialist I'm afraid.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 26, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You won't find vaguely gesturing to be effective on a socialist I'm afraid.


And that is why you all get angry all the time. You refuse to ask questions, dive deeper or think logically. I refuse to believe that you are a dumb person, even if you are a socialist. I used to have some leftwing views in my younger days too. So, here's a little truth to get you started.

The Federal Reserve owns the US through debt slavery. Every country that has a central banking system is in the same boat as we are.

They control us because we are divided and have been bickering amongst ourselves for decades, while they are united laughing at us at their DC cocktail parties getting richer and richer from their corrupt foreign deals.

All we need is common ground. Us united is their biggest fear. The only question that remains is, are we ready to become united against a common foe?


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 26, 2022)

Lol, let me guess. You think the removal of the gold standard was a bad thing (it wasn't) and your solution to the "fed slavery" (not a thing btw) is crypto?

Champ, you either become anti-capitalist to solve the inherent flaws and oppression of capitalism, or you let it fester. You cannot use capitalism to fix capitalism.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Lol, let me guess. You think the removal of the gold standard was a bad thing (it wasn't) and your solution to the "fed slavery" (not a thing btw) is crypto?
> 
> Champ, you either become anti-capitalist to solve the inherent flaws and oppression of capitalism, or you let it fester. You cannot use capitalism to fix capitalism.



Just look at the value of the dollar since the Federal Reserve Act was passed and look how it really devalued after we got off the gold standard. The evidence is there. All you have to do is go find it.

Socialism never fixed anything in the world ever throughout all of humankind and you can't point to a single instance where it did. And don't give me that "it's never been tried before" crap, unless you want everybody here to laugh at you.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Just look at the value of the dollar since the Federal Reserve Act was passed and look how it really devalued after we got off the gold standard. The evidence is there. All you have to do is go find it.
> 
> Socialism never fixed anything in the world ever throughout all of humankind and you can't point to a single instance where it did. And don't give me that "it's never been tried before" crap, unless you want everybody here to laugh at you.


Sure, I can look at the security and how we haven't had a depression since. It's not that the Federal Reserve is some problemless saint, it's that the alternatives are genuinely so fucking bad in comparison (gold standard, crypto standard, etc) that we straight up enter the Twilight Zone in terms of possibility.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Sure, I can look at the security and how we haven't had a depression since. It's not that the Federal Reserve is some problemless saint, it's that the alternatives are genuinely so fucking bad in comparison (gold standard, crypto standard, etc) that we straight up enter the Twilight Zone in terms of possibility.


The Federal Reserve was created in 1913. The Great Depression happened within 20 years. Then all the recessions since. They were created to prevent those from happening.

The gold standard has worked for thousands of years. 100 years of fiat currency failed a long time ago.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The Federal Reserve was created in 1913. The Great Depression happened within 20 years. Then all the recessions since. They were created to prevent those from happening.
> 
> The gold standard has worked for thousands of years. 100 years of fiat currency failed a long time ago.


You mean the recessions that happened, not because of fiat, but because of active exploitation of the working class by predatory banks?

You sound awfully anti-capitalist. Careful that you don't cross that line, or your puppetmasters might get angry that you aren't repeating the intended propaganda.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You mean the recessions that happened, not because of fiat, but because of active exploitation of the working class by predatory banks?
> 
> You sound awfully anti-capitalist. Careful that you don't cross that line, or your puppetmasters might get angry that you aren't repeating the intended propaganda.


Imagine simping for a federal banking system that puts us further and further in debt and devalues our currency by design and thinking you are in the right. I hoped you stretched those hammies before twisting yourself in a pretzel with that kind of logic.

Are we gonna continue being snarky or would you be interested in trying to find common ground? If it's snark that you are after, then you are just wasting my time at this point, because all that you are doing is playing into the oligarchs' hands at this point.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Imagine simping for a federal banking system that puts us further and further in debt and devalues our currency by design and thinking you are in the right. I hoped you stretched those hammies before twisting yourself in a pretzel with that kind of logic.
> 
> Are we gonna continue being snarky or would you be interested in trying to find common ground? If it's snark that you are after, then you are just wasting my time at this point, because all that you are doing is playing into the oligarchs' hands at this point.


Libertarians are insane people who want to tank the economy and let corporations run everything. We do not have common ground.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Libertarians are insane people who want to tank the economy and let corporations run everything. We do not have common ground.


There you go assuming again. I'm not a libertarian. I'm also not a conservative. I do enjoy watching you try to label me and guessing my views. It makes you look childish and foolish because you think you have the power to define me, and you do not.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> There you go assuming again. I'm not a libertarian. I'm also not a conservative. I do enjoy watching you try to label me and guessing my views. It makes you look childish and foolish because you think you have the power to define me, and you do not.


I don't care enough to address your special snowflake ideology that holds the same positions as libertarians do with whatever special snowflake term you created on the spot for it. A turd by any other name is still a turd.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I don't care enough to address your special snowflake ideology that holds the same positions as libertarians do with whatever special snowflake term you created on the spot for it. A turd by any other name is still a turd.


Because you cannot defend your failed ideology in a debate. So you resort to get getting mad and stomping your feet around. You gonna take your ball and go home now little girl? It's all you have left. Maybe go burn some churches or pregnancy centers down with your KLANtifa friends tonight? I hear you guys have the addresses of all 6 Supreme Court justices too. You guys gonna try and make an attempt on another one's life?


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Because you cannot defend your failed ideology in a debate. So you resort to get getting mad and stomping your feet around. You gonna take your ball and go home now little girl? It's all you have left. Maybe go burn some churches or pregnancy centers down with your KLANtifa friends tonight? I hear you guys have the addresses of all 6 Supreme Court justices too. You guys gonna try and make an attempt on another one's life?


Every single word of that was entirely irrelevant, so I'm just going to say "take your meds, schizo."
To add to this, there is no "debate," you just gish gallop to something else to larp about. You don't stand for or believe anything, so I don't care what you think. I will continue to support socialism and convince others with functioning frontal lobes to do so.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Every single word of that was entirely irrelevant, so I'm just going to say "take your meds, schizo."


I'm not the one blasting angry comments to random people on message boards. You really have nothing productive to say at this point and are reduced to saying dumb and stupid things. You can't even defend your ideology. That's how dumb it is. 

I thought you people were supposed to be winning over the last 18 months? What ever happened to all the Hope and Change? You people are even more miserable when you when win


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'm not the one blasting angry comments to random people on message boards. You really have nothing productive to say at this point and are reduced to saying dumb and stupid things. You can't even defend your ideology. That's how dumb it is.
> 
> I thought you people were supposed to be winning over the last 18 months? What ever happened to all the Hope and Change? You people are even more miserable when you when win


I don't know who this Liberal Laina™ that lives in your head is, but if you're not gonna introduce me to her I'd prefer if you actually argue against what I'm saying, and not the strawman of me in your head is saying. Because I didn't say a single part of anything you're crying about.

Oh wait, I realize what this is, you want to virtue signal about how anti-left you want to be, and I'm just the catalyst for your random (and frankly useless) soapboxing. Now I see.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I don't know who this Liberal Laina™ that lives in your head is, but if you're not gonna introduce me to her I'd prefer if you actually argue against what I'm saying, and not the strawman of me in your head is saying. Because I didn't say a single part of anything you're crying about.
> 
> Oh wait, I realize what this is, you want to virtue signal about how anti-left you want to be, and I'm just the catalyst for your random (and frankly useless) soapboxing. Now I see.


Real life is anti-left. It's why none of your ideas ever work outside of the college classroom.


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## LainaGabranth (Jun 27, 2022)

Surely if your ideas mattered, you'd have more than useless rhetoric.


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## mrdude (Jun 27, 2022)

Democrats - yep they are as scummy as you all think they are, check this black chick that was recorded trying to get drug money from prisoners to fund her campaign.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Democrats - yep they are as scummy as you all think they are, check this black chick that was recorded trying to get drug money from prisoners to fund her campaign.



The ends justify the means. There will be no leftist outrage over this at all. When you think you are righteous and truly believe you are fighting Nazis, no strategy is off the table. That's how cults work.


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## mrdude (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The ends justify the means. There will be no leftist outrage over this at all. When you think you are righteous and truly believe you are fighting Nazis, no strategy is off the table. That's how cults work.


Yep they are hypocrites - but don't worry, voters have seen right through them. I am looking forward to November.


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## TraderPatTX (Jun 27, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Yep they are hypocrites - but don't worry, voters have seen right through them. I am looking forward to November.


I'm enjoying the journey. I relish every single one of their outrages. It's quite simply *chef's kiss*, magnifique.


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## mrdude (Jun 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'm enjoying the journey. I relish every single one of their outrages. It's quite simply *chef's kiss*, magnifique.


I love mining the salt from them. Just imagine if the same sex marriage law got cancelled.....the salt mining would be epic.

Whoever made this did a good job of portaying these nutters:


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## AlexMCS (Jun 27, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I love mining the salt from them. Just imagine if the same sex marriage law got cancelled.....the salt mining would be epic.
> 
> Whoever made this did a good job of portaying these nutters:




OMG dude that video.
The guys who created it were freaking prophets.


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## Nothereed (Jun 28, 2022)

From the latest hearing I need to quote this
"Take the fucking mags away, they are not here to hurt me, let them in, let my people in, they can march to the capital, after the rallies are over" -- Trump"
Trump knew his people were armed. almost all of them were. And was demanding the secret service to remove the magnetometers so they wouldn't know if they had weapons.
This was a planned armed insurrection. And he knew it was, that is insane.
She went back to her office, and talked with mark meadows. And mark meadows said things were going to get really really bad on the 6th. Mark Meadows is the white house chief of staff. In other words, Trump's own appointie was saying things was going to get bad on the 6th.


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## mrdude (Jun 28, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> From the latest hearing I need to quote this
> "Take the fucking mags away, they are not here to hurt me, let them in, let my people in, they can march to the capital, after the rallies are over" -- Trump"
> Trump knew his people were armed. almost all of them were. And was demanding the secret service to remove the magnetometers so they wouldn't know if they had weapons.
> This was a planned armed insurrection. And he knew it was, that is insane.


I wish there was a boring button so I could press it. Nobody is interested in this clown circus as I am sure you will find out in November, at that point your dem party will be stuck in limbo for the next 2 years. That might give them time to try and sort the country out.


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## Nothereed (Jun 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I wish there was a boring button so I could press it. Nobody is interested in this clown circus as I am sure you will find out in November, at that point your dem party will be stuck in limbo for the next 2 years. That might give them time to try and sort the country out.


So in other words you are complicit with armed insurrection. I don't care if you say "Oh boring. nobody cares" Because the evidence right here right now is pointing to a planned armed insurrection on January 6th. That is the facts on the matter. Either you denounce it, because you and your likes have claimed it was a peaceful protest, when the secret service would tell you otherwise. Or I'm going to take as your support this entire thing, and if so, you can fuck off tyrant.


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## mrdude (Jun 28, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> So in other words you are complicit with armed insurrection. I don't care if you say "Oh boring. nobody cares" Because the evidence right here right now is pointing to a planned armed insurrection on January 6th. That is the facts on the matter. Either you denounce it, because you and your likes have claimed it was a peaceful protest, when the secret service would tell you otherwise. Or I'm going to take as your support this entire thing, and if so, you can fuck off tyrant.


It was a "mostly peacefull" protest. There was no insurrection - that's just a made up thing from the left (That nobody cares about).


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## Nothereed (Jun 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It was a "mostly peacefull" protest. There was no insurrection - that's just a made up thing from the left.


"Take the fucking mags away, they are not here to hurt me, let them in, let my people in, they can march to the capital, after the rallies are over" -- Trump"
then explain why Trump was demanding the secret service to remove metal detectors, why would he say "they are not here to hurt me"
They had guns, body armor and weapons. That is not a made up thing. That is you trying to change the conversation into your favor as a insurrectionist (since at this point denial is being complicit). Trump was angry that his rally wasn't completely filled up because many of them realized their weapons was going to need to be put away to the side.
 Police officers reported AK 47's on people's bodies. They had people call them and tell them that, and we literately have the radio records for what the officers were saying.

You don't just go as a person rallying others that you WILL MARCH to the captial, and also say it's fine to have guns. There is no "mostly peaceful" it wasn't. This was not planned to peaceful, this was planned to be armed insurrection.  There is no plausaible deniability anymore on this. Either you denounce it, or you are complicit with a coup attempt.


----------



## mrdude (Jun 28, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> "Take the fucking mags away, they are not here to hurt me, let them in, let my people in, they can march to the capital, after the rallies are over" -- Trump"
> then explain why Trump was demanding the secret service to remove metal detectors, why would he say "they are not here to hurt me"
> They had guns, body armor and weapons. That is not a made up thing. That is you trying to change the conversation into your favor as a insurrectionist (since at this point denial is being complicit). Trump was angry that his rally wasn't completely filled up because many of them realized their weapons was going to need to be put away to the side.
> Police officers reported AK 47's on people's bodies. They had people call them and tell them that, and we literately have the radio records for what the officers were saying.


As I said already, Jan 6 hearings are nothing but a political clown circus - full of lies, nobody cares about them and eveyone can see right through the rhetoric. This clown circus will do nothing to change anyones votes come election day - the red wave is coming.


----------



## Nothereed (Jun 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> As I said already, Jan 6 hearings are nothing but a political clown circus - full of lies, nobody cares about them and eveyone can see right through the rhetoric


No, this is you deflecting, refusing to look at the evidence, because you are so brainwashed that you cannot see that it was armed insurrection, or complicit with it.. Refusing to listen to witnesses that were WITH THE PRESIDENT at the fucking time.
People do care, you can keep trying to say that people don't, but people do.  This isn't them circle jerking and just talking, they littearly have fucking witnesses, call and radio. 

You are complicit with a coup. And everyone will know and remember you as a blatant fascist, who is in support of armed insurrection.


----------



## mrdude (Jun 28, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> No, this is you deflecting, refusing to look at the evidence, because you are so brainwashed that you cannot see that it was armed insurrection, or complicit with it.. Refusing to listen to witnesses that were WITH THE PRESIDENT at the fucking time.
> People do care, you can keep trying to say that people don't, but people do.  This isn't them circle jerking and just talking, they littearly have fucking witnesses, audio and so on.


Yep, well we will find out in November how much people care - I don't think anyone gives a hoot though, I can see through the political crap, so can everyone else with a functioning brain.


----------



## Hanafuda (Jun 28, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> From the latest hearing I need to quote this
> "Take the fucking mags away, they are not here to hurt me, let them in, let my people in, they can march to the capital, after the rallies are over" -- Trump"
> Trump knew his people were armed. almost all of them were. And was demanding the secret service to remove the magnetometers so they wouldn't know if they had weapons.
> This was a planned armed insurrection. And he knew it was, that is insane.
> She went back to her office, and talked with mark meadows. And mark meadows said things were going to get really really bad on the 6th. Mark Meadows is the white house chief of staff. In other words, Trump's own appointie was saying things was going to get bad on the 6th.



She was subjected to cross-examination and rebuttal witnesses were allowed, yes?

... No?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Jun 28, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> From the latest hearing I need to quote this
> "Take the fucking mags away, they are not here to hurt me, let them in, let my people in, they can march to the capital, after the rallies are over" -- Trump"
> Trump knew his people were armed. almost all of them were. And was demanding the secret service to remove the magnetometers so they wouldn't know if they had weapons.
> This was a planned armed insurrection. And he knew it was, that is insane.
> She went back to her office, and talked with mark meadows. And mark meadows said things were going to get really really bad on the 6th. Mark Meadows is the white house chief of staff. In other words, Trump's own appointie was saying things was going to get bad on the 6th.


This is why I don't think that the right has anything of value to ever say, because if your response to a president saying that they want their rioters to be let inside is "Meh, boring!" then you're basically just intellectually dead in my book.


----------



## mrdude (Jun 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> This is why I don't think that the right has anything of value to ever say, because if your response to a president saying that they want their rioters to be let inside is "Meh, boring!" then you're basically just intellectually dead in my book.


When the left start talking about the Biden corruption family and his crack addict son's dodgy dealings, when Hillary Clinton ends up in prison for her crimes, when Pelosi is getting rich from insider trading and nothing is said, when the other corrupt Dem politicians are held to account, I might take some notice. However we have seen double standards time and time again from the left, so nobody on the right is taking any notice of the clown circus - the left made some new rules up so we started playing by the same rules for now. Wait until the right take over again - heads will roll, it's just a matter of time until the left get their comeuppance. Biden will probably be impeached soon enough - revenge is sweet!

I don't hear you whinging about this:


----------



## LainaGabranth (Jun 29, 2022)

mrdude said:


> When the left start talking about the Biden corruption family and his crack addict son's dodgy dealings, when Hillary Clinton ends up in prison for her crimes, when Pelosi is getting rich from insider trading and nothing is said, when the other corrupt Dem politicians are held to account, I might take some notice. However we have seen double standards time and time again from the left, so nobody on the right is taking any notice of the clown circus - the left made some new rules up so we started playing by the same rules for now. Wait until the right take over again - heads will roll, it's just a matter of time until the left get their comeuppance. Biden will probably be impeached soon enough - revenge is sweet!
> 
> I don't hear you whinging about this:



The difference between you and I is that I actually want the system to be changed, you just want something to be mad at.


----------



## mrdude (Jun 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> The difference between you and I is that I actually want the system to be changed, you just want something to be mad at.


Haha, I'm not mad at anything - I don't live in the USA so don't care too much about what goes on in that country. I just like pointing out the hypocrisy of the left.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Jun 29, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Haha, I'm not mad at anything - I don't live in the USA so don't care too much about what goes on in that country. I just like pointing out the hypocrisy of the left.


If you were actually laughing about all this, you wouldn't need to invent strawmen to whine about.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jun 29, 2022)

mrdude said:


> When the left start talking about the Biden corruption family and his crack addict son's dodgy dealings, when Hillary Clinton ends up in prison for her crimes, when Pelosi is getting rich from insider trading and nothing is said, when the other corrupt Dem politicians are held to account, I might take some notice. However we have seen double standards time and time again from the left, so nobody on the right is taking any notice of the clown circus - the left made some new rules up so we started playing by the same rules for now. Wait until the right take over again - heads will roll, it's just a matter of time until the left get their comeuppance. Biden will probably be impeached soon enough - revenge is sweet!



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...litics/biden-2024-election-democrats.amp.html

Seems like a lot of Democrats don't care for Biden due to, among other things, the amount of corruption that surrounds his family and decisions. 

Wasn't Trump supposed to imprison Hilary? What ever happened to that?

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074387320/pelosi-opens-the-door-to-stock-trading-ban

I'm curious to know where this inside trading is on her behalf. Care to post something?

You whine a lot about corruption through the Democrats like it's not human nature, regardless of political party. 



mrdude said:


> the left made some new rules up so we started playing by the same rules for now. Wait until the right take over again - heads will roll, it's just a matter of time until the left get their comeuppance





mrdude said:


> What's irrelevant it the views of every single person on this forum and everyone that doesn't make the state laws.
> 
> The law is the only thing that's relevant and the law has spoken.



*crickets chirping*



mrdude said:


> Biden will probably be impeached soon enough - revenge is sweet!



Fair enough. Trump's still got two on him for the moment. But if the law is the only thing that's relevant, then it stands to be said that the president is the only thing that's relevant. What did Republicans say for years? "Suck it up buttercup, he won"?

You'd be more relevant if you actually had an opinion that wasn't regurgitated Facebook memes from a conservative Republican Christian echo chamber. Didn't you mention earlier you don't even live in America but you like pointing out the hypocrisy of the left? At what point are you anything other than a puppet?


----------



## AncientBoi (Jun 29, 2022)

My whole take on it, Is that they are ALL Guilty of TREASON.


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## Nothereed (Jul 12, 2022)

so with the latest hearing, it went over the election fraud claims, and seizing machines. with pointing out 60/61 cases, trump lost


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## KingVamp (Jul 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> so with the latest hearing, it went over the election fraud claims, and seizing machines. with pointing out 60/61 cases, trump lost)


What was that 1 case?


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## Nothereed (Jul 12, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> What was that 1 case?


wasn't really a full win, mostly if I remember correctly, one of the states did a part of the process wrong. I'll try to pull it up.
(from wikipedia. which covers it)

"Only one ruling was initially in Trump's favor: the timing within which first-time Pennsylvania voters must provide proper identification if they wanted to “cure” their ballots. This ruling affected very few votes,[9] and it was later overturned by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.[10]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-..._the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

So technically speaking, he lost even that case since it was overturned.


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## Nothereed (Jul 12, 2022)

Speaking of the hearings (still watching it)
Trump was going to install a "special counsel" with one of the members being Sidney Powell. If you remember who she is. You'd remember her as the person who claimed the election was stolen, and that some dead person in a foreign country did it. Which afterwords, with that special counsel, the "correct" results would be occur.

How many more times do I have to state this was a coup attempt? This is literately how a dictator overthrows (what remains) of a democracy. False information. Attempting to grab power through misinformation. Facists are at their strongest, when they can bleed fact and fiction together.


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## LainaGabranth (Jul 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Speaking of the hearings (still watching it)
> Trump was going to install a "special counsel" with one of the members being Sidney Powell. If you remember who she is. You'd remember her as the person who claimed the election was stolen, and that some dead person in a foreign country did it. Which afterwords, with that special counsel, the "correct" results would be occur.
> 
> How many more times do I have to state this was a coup attempt? This is literately how a dictator overthrows (what remains) of a democracy. False information. Attempting to grab power through misinformation. Facists are at their strongest, when they can bleed fact and fiction together.


Predicting the righty cope posts: BUH BUH BUH ANTIFA, BUH BUH BUH BLM, ELECTION FRAUD WAS REAL CAUSE I SAW BOXES IN A TRUCK, BIDEN LAPTOP etc etc

Daily reminder that Antifa has no organization, BLM is decentralized, and neither had ever at any point tried to overthrow the government, they were protesting racial inequality and injustice in the criminal justice system, but you won't see anyone on the right ever acknowledge that because otherwise their arguments fall apart. No one on the right will condemn January 6th if they believe in election fraud myths, because they believe the attempted coup was necessary to instill their loser of a leader.


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## Dark_Phoras (Jul 12, 2022)

@LainaGabranth they'll ignore the logical progression of the discussion, spam memes and share unrelated or unarticulated opinions. And the mods will only shut the thread down due to excessive off-topic, instead of deleting off-topic posts.


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## Nothereed (Jul 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Predicting the righty cope posts: BUH BUH BUH ANTIFA, BUH BUH BUH BLM, ELECTION FRAUD WAS REAL CAUSE I SAW BOXES IN A TRUCK, BIDEN LAPTOP etc etc


"MUH whatabout hunter! You heard about failed son hunter right?! right?!"
Speaking of hunter. LMAO. I swear if I hear this exact statement, I'm going to ask "So... what happened to hunter's laptop? Like don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's some dirt on him. But, who's worse? a crackhead who is related to a President. Or a facist former President who has and will continue to try, to overthrow a election"
From there we'll likely end up getting Incel level logic roe v wade 5.0 style (I'm not really counting) and more fascist rhetoric. (or at least, fascist adjacent rhetoric.)


----------



## budDRY (Jul 12, 2022)

this theater is to gather the morons to become a mob

so gather up morons


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## budDRY (Jul 12, 2022)

4 others killed themselves after January 6th, blah blah......

mmmmkay
roseanne boyland died from police beating. video evidence showed she was beaten even after she fell to the ground. also video of them trying to save her and was pronounced dead before reaching the hospital. the officer walked away free.


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## Nothereed (Jul 12, 2022)

This was a draft Tweet approved by Trump...
Right wingers:"Not a coup attempt, it's not!"


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## budDRY (Jul 12, 2022)

ahh i love msm 

please tell me how i should think......... i mean please entertainm me more


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## KingVamp (Jul 12, 2022)

Well, it was obviously a coup attempt, even without more evidence.


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## budDRY (Jul 12, 2022)

.


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## budDRY (Jul 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The ends justify the means. There will be no leftist outrage over this at all. When you think you are righteous and truly believe you are fighting Nazis, no strategy is off the table. That's how cults work.


or anything that theyve done wrong.


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## Nothereed (Jul 12, 2022)

budDRY said:


> or anything that theyve done wrong.


All of us lefties (not democrats) Acknowledge and know the Democrats are shit. But They are far less shit, than the literal fascist party that is the Republican party. Your literately quote replying to someone talking about drug money.
What's worse?
Someone using drug money from a prisoners fund?
Or armed planned insurrection attempt, directly attacking the election process.
 combined with overwriting the public regarding the supreme court and preparing to do another coup.

One of these takes far higher priority. people who vote Democrat (moderate right) and the actual leftists (which your group seems to fail heavily realize that most democrats aren't full blown leftists) support having a democratic system.  That is our through line. We've always been against gerrymandering, we've always been against lobbying, we've always supported a better democracy.
The Republican party/Fascist party, would rather install an authoritarian with the state having absolute control.

If you cannot get your priorities straight, I'm not going to bother arguing with you. None of us got the time for it.

We have about a year, before the Partisan Supreme Court rules on
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/30/us-supreme-court-state-elections-legislatures
Once that happens, we aren't living any shred of democracy.
Biden likely isn't going to fix that.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Jul 12, 2022)

budDRY said:


> or anything that theyve done wrong.


@ five leftists in this thread who have said the Democrats aren't bad.


----------



## The Catboy (Jul 14, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Nope, I'm out. Sorry, you're too ideologically entrenched for actual discussion. Enjoy the circle jerk.


So you don’t have evidence because there is none and it never happened. I am not a Democrat and I didn’t vote Democrat either


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## LainaGabranth (Jul 14, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> So you don’t have evidence because there is none and it never happened. I am not a Democrat and I didn’t vote Democrat either


I think I remember arguing with that person on my previous account, I very specifically remember them being incredibly stupid and bad faith. Amazed you have the patience to give them the time of day.


----------



## The Catboy (Jul 14, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I think I remember arguing with that person on my previous account, I very specifically remember them being incredibly stupid and bad faith. Amazed you have the patience to give them the time of day.


Oh, I am just going to call out any idiot claiming there was election fraud. Considering there’s no evidence and there never will be any, it’s just become fun pissing them off because they’re idiots


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## budDRY (Jul 18, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> (which your group seems to fail heavily realize that most democrats aren't full blown leftists)


"your group"?
and what group is that?. both groups are 1 in the same. ive realized this at the age of 19.


Nothereed said:


> If you cannot get your priorities straight, I'm not going to bother arguing with you. None of us got the time for it.


im sure youre arguing. its more of a conversation to me. meh whatever.


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## TraderPatTX (Jul 19, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Oh, I am just going to call out any idiot claiming there was election fraud. Considering there’s no evidence and there never will be any, it’s just become fun pissing them off because they’re idiots


Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that ballot drop boxes are illegal now and they were illegal in 2020. It'll be interesting how this plays out. Does it invalidate all of the ballots dropped in those boxes? Maybe.


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## SonowRaevius (Jul 19, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that ballot drop boxes are illegal now and they were illegal in 2020. It'll be interesting how this plays out. Does it invalidate all of the ballots dropped in those boxes? Maybe.


Rather funny considering drop boxes  were used in previous elections without an issue, and there was 0 mention of them being illegal beforehand (which is something your public/voters should definitely know about) in the 2020 election, but here we are 2 years later and NOW there is a problem with them  and rather suddenly now that  republicans hold the majority of the Supreme Court in Wisconsin.

Surely there is no bias or corruption there or with that ruling whatsoever.....

Edit: Also looking over it there has been no news stories about it whatsoever in years and the law that forbade it to begin with cannot be found....how very, very odd, you really would think that would have been a bigger issue before now.....


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 19, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> Rather funny considering drop boxes  were used in previous elections without an issue, and there was 0 mention of them being illegal beforehand (which is something your public/voters should definitely know about) in the 2020 election, but here we are 2 years later and NOW there is a problem with them  and rather suddenly now that  republicans hold the majority of the Supreme Court in Wisconsin.
> 
> Surely there is no bias or corruption there or with that ruling whatsoever.....
> 
> Edit: Also looking over it there has been no news stories about it whatsoever in years and the law that forbade it to begin with cannot be found....how very, very odd, you really would think that would have been a bigger issue before now.....


The courts can't make rulings until a case is brought to them. That's how our system works. You can continue to call courts you disagree with illegitimate all you want. It doesn't change rulings. Justice is known to take time. So besides the amount of time, the lack of stories and a "corrupt" court, you got nothing. Duly noted.


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## SonowRaevius (Jul 19, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The courts can't make rulings until a case is brought to them. That's how our system works. You can continue to call courts you disagree with illegitimate all you want. It doesn't change rulings. Justice is known to take time. So besides the amount of time, the lack of stories and a "corrupt" court, you got nothing. Duly noted.


Well considering it was fine when Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump were elected while the same ballot boxes were present it seems rather strange that no one brought it up or that it wasn't an issue until now. Surely someone in nearly 30 years would have said something, brought the case forward, or actually done something about the illegal boxes, that is, if such a law existed.

Not a fan of Biden by a long shot, but it does seem Republicans as of late are doing everything they can to make the election seem like it was false, rigged, or "illegal" especially when there has never been issues or problems before with the way people voted.

So either:

A) They knew that it was illegal, but treated it as if that law wasn't a big deal for 30+ years, not even warning their citizens not to use said drop boxes.

or

B) They are just now claiming that they are/were illegal after 30+ years for seemingly no reason other than to make some spectacle or point. That point again trying to make the election seem illegitimate in anyway possible, especially in a time of extreme political polarization in the US.

Even if they do find that the drop boxes were illegal for whichever reason, they wouldn't and shouldn't throw out votes just because people did something they weren't even aware was illegal especially when no one said anything in those 30+ officially or unofficially until now.


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## budDRY (Jul 19, 2022)

the real red light for me is that biden is supposed to be the MOST popular potus of ALL time. his  campaign was horse shit, his debates was a circus show.
"youre not black if you dont vote for me"
you got my vote there mr. racist.


----------



## Nothereed (Jul 19, 2022)

budDRY said:


> the real red light for me is that biden is supposed to be the MOST popular potus of ALL time. his campaign was horse shit, his debates was a circus show.


he's not the most popular. People only voted him because he wasn't Trump. If you check my posts, or any of the people who have argued, none of us view biden as a saint. He is the shit with sprinkles, and Trump is just shit.


----------



## budDRY (Jul 19, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> he's not the most popular.


did you see the vote count? it showed he is the MOST popular potus
more than obama?

im replying to this:
Well considering it was fine when Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump were elected while the same ballot boxes were present it seems rather strange that no one brought it up or that it wasn't an issue until now. Surely someone in nearly 30 years would have said something, brought the case forward, or actually done something about the illegal boxes, that is, if such a law existed."


----------



## Nothereed (Jul 19, 2022)

budDRY said:


> did you see the vote count?
> more than obama


And?
1.
you do realize there's more human beings on the planet than there was back during Obama. and invetibly the people who were 12 back then. Are now 18-22.  Unless your telling me not a single person became the age of 18 or older from Obama to now.
2. You seem to not grasp that "he's not the most popular. People only voted him because he wasn't Trump."
If people are given two unpopular choices, and one of them is extremely worse. People are going to damage mitigation and choose the lesser of the two.
People viewed, that Trump was the worse of the two choices, and as a result, Biden won by essentially being "I'm not Trump"
Biden won the popular vote. But he was not popular with the people who casted it for him. The popular vote only really speaks about the factuality about who voted for who. Not how they feel towards it.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 19, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> Well considering it was fine when Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump were elected while the same ballot boxes were present it seems rather strange that no one brought it up or that it wasn't an issue until now. Surely someone in nearly 30 years would have said something, brought the case forward, or actually done something about the illegal boxes, that is, if such a law existed.
> 
> Not a fan of Biden by a long shot, but it does seem Republicans as of late are doing everything they can to make the election seem like it was false, rigged, or "illegal" especially when there has never been issues or problems before with the way people voted.
> 
> ...


Before 2020, ballot drop boxes were only found in election clerk offices so they can retain a chain of custody of the ballots. That was impossible with the more than 500 unstaffed drop boxes that were used in 2020. The state legislature did not authorize the expanded use of drop boxes around the state. Contrary to popular belief, the executive branches of states and the federal governments do not make law. They have to abide by the laws voted on by the state legislatures and Congress, respectively. Hope this helps.


----------



## budDRY (Jul 19, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> 2. You seem to not grasp that "he's not the most popular.


i guess i had no idea


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 19, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> And?
> 1.
> you do realize there's more human beings on the planet than there was back during Obama. and invetibly the people who were 12 back then. Are now 18-22.  Unless your telling me not a single person became the age of 18 or older from Obama to now.
> 2. You seem to not grasp that "he's not the most popular. People only voted him because he wasn't Trump."
> ...


Sure is a lot of buyer's remorse. Biden's poll numbers just hit 30%. I guess he was right when he said he was gonna unite the country... against him.


----------



## budDRY (Jul 19, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Sure is a lot of buyer's remorse. Biden's poll numbers just hit 30%. I guess he was right when he said he was gonna unite the country... against him.


agree

just wait til they get their "socialist" life.


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## LainaGabranth (Jul 19, 2022)

Strange how the right constantly complains about Biden and yet they won't ever do anything to upend the two party system that necessitated him. Big thinky!


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jul 19, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Before 2020, ballot drop boxes were only found in election clerk offices


See I know that is a lie because there ballot drop boxes in Georgia in by at least 2004-2005, I even used one in 2008 to cast my vote. Either you are not old enough to know that, got some bad information, or are just downright lying right now.


TraderPatTX said:


> that was impossible with the more than 500 unstaffed drop boxes that were used in 2020.


How so? Once a Ballot was cast it couldn't be cast multiple times, even when being mailed in or dropped of fand a double vote would be pretty damn obvious. Also, who else do you think had access to them? You need something very specific to open them and the slots are too small for anyone to fit their hands in them. Don't really know what you are implying unless you believe the whole "Ballots were thrown out" spiel that got disproven multiple times. 



TraderPatTX said:


> the state legislature did not authorize the expanded use of drop boxes around the state.



Again if it was a problem before the election why was it not addressed sooner? And before you say "They didn't authorize them" might want to google all the ballot boxes that have pictures in Wisconsin because almost all of them say they are official and from whatever county/city they are located in and there are some that have pictures at least from 2016 so you can't say they didn't exist yet again.



TraderPatTX said:


> Contrary to popular belief, the executive branches of states and the federal governments do not make law.


Executive  will give you that  one , but uh, federal laws are passed all the time and apply to everyone in the US and even override state laws. For a good example, if they REALLY wanted to they could bust everyone in Colorado for possession if they so wished as it is still illegal on a federal level. 



TraderPatTX said:


> They have to abide by the laws voted on by the state legislatures and Congress, respectively. Hope this helps.


Again only half right, as laws passed by Congress are written into Federal Law and can easily be enforced if they so chose to enforce them. Not that I think that is 100% a good thing, but it is what it is. Article VI Paragraph 2 AKA the Supremecy clause even states:  *the federal constitution, and federal law generally, take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions*.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jul 19, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Strange how the right constantly complains about Biden and yet they won't ever do anything to upend the two party system that necessitated him. Big thinky!


I find it even more strange that as of late we are starting to see more and more accounts less than a year old that only post in political topics on here and are generally right wing on this site for some reason.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Jul 19, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> I find it even more strange that as of late we are starting to see more and more accounts less than a year old that only post in political topics on here and are generally right wing on this site for some reason.


I don't. I used to run an 8chan board, I can absolutely tell you from experience that it's two kinds of people. The majority are weirdos looking for fellow weirdos who like them were raised in environments of insincerity and irony poisoning looking to "trigger" the "sjws" and other dumb shit.

There are others however who were *extremely* insidious and like to come to communities like this that are full of politically-uninvested people to try to radicalize them on the most inane shit possible. My board had a guy who would come in on VPNs almost every day just to try to convince people that gravity was a spook and that (his misunderstanding of) Tesla's theory of electromagnetic shit was gravity.

Like I said, most just want to share their opinion and fling shit. A few however are genuinely insidious in nature. You can tell which ones based on how hard they're pushing insane shit, such as anyone who came in just to push EMF, Soylent, and "globohomo" theories.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 19, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> See I know that is a lie because there ballot drop boxes in Georgia in by at least 2004-2005, I even used one in 2008 to cast my vote. Either you are not old enough to know that, got some bad information, or are just downright lying right now.
> 
> How so? Once a Ballot was cast it couldn't be cast multiple times, even when being mailed in or dropped of fand a double vote would be pretty damn obvious. Also, who else do you think had access to them? You need something very specific to open them and the slots are too small for anyone to fit their hands in them. Don't really know what you are implying unless you believe the whole "Ballots were thrown out" spiel that got disproven multiple times.
> 
> ...


Damn dude. Do you know the difference between Georgia and Wisconsin? I didn't even read the rest of your comment because you don't even know what state I am talking about.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jul 19, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Damn dude. Do you know the difference between Georgia and Wisconsin? I didn't even read the rest of your comment because you don't even know what state I am talking about.


Damn Dude, if you had you would have seen that there have been ballot drop off boxes backed officially by the counties and cities in Wisconsin that have existed since at least 2016 or even before meaning you are still a liar and/or don't know what you are talking about. 

Even then, you still said that they didn't exists anywhere before 2020, you didn't specify Wisconsin anyway so good job on being wrong again. 

Though, it is what I should expect from someone who argues constantly in bad faith, avoids facts they don't like, and dodges questions that make them look hypocritical.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 20, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> Damn Dude, if you had you would have seen that there have been ballot drop off boxes backed officially by the counties and cities in Wisconsin that have existed since at least 2016 or even before meaning you are still a liar and/or don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> Even then, you still said that they didn't exists anywhere before 2020, you didn't specify Wisconsin anyway so good job on being wrong again.
> 
> Though, it is what I should expect from someone who argues constantly in bad faith, avoids facts they don't like, and dodges questions that make them look hypocritical.


My comment started with "Wisconsin Supreme Court..."

Do you even read, bro? Stop making a fool of yourself and take the L.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jul 20, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Before 2020, ballot drop boxes were only found in election clerk offices so they can retain a chain of custody of the ballots.


Now I want you to re-read your own quote. 

I don't see you saying "In Wisconsin they were only found in clerk offices.", you said that they weren't found at all. Now maybe you meant to say only Wisconsin, but that is not what you said here, 

Given that you are prone to lying, I am not going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this.

You could argue that I should have known what you meant as well, but given as you like to twist your words and information when it suits you, there is no way I would have known if you meant JUST Wisconsin or not. 

Even then I still had Wisconsin included in my statement, which I even told I did, so who's the one that can't read or comprehend thing here?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 20, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> Now I want you to re-read your own quote.
> 
> I don't see you saying "In Wisconsin they were only found in clerk offices.", you said that they weren't found at all. Now maybe you meant to say only Wisconsin, but that is not what you said here,
> 
> ...


Since the first word of my comment was Wisconsin, that was the first clue that I was talking about Wisconsin. I can't put it any plainer that I was talking about Wisconsin for you to understand. Did you notice that I'm talking about Wisconsin here?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jul 20, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Since the first word of my comment was Wisconsin, that was the first clue that I was talking about Wisconsin. I can't put it any plainer that I was talking about Wisconsin for you to understand. Did you notice that I'm talking about Wisconsin here?


I also talked about Wisconsin. 

You would have noticed if you had read what I said about Wisconsin. 

Which referred to the fact that officially government back ballot boxes were in Wisconsin at 2016 at the very least. 

Maybe if you weren't so focused on that fact that I didn't bring up Wisconsin initially you would have in fact noticed that what you said about Wisconsin is still false. 

So take 3 L's here. One for losing the argument that I wasn't also talking about Wisconsin. Another for being wrong about ballot boxes in Wisconsin. Finally, your third for being a straight up capital "L" Liar til the very end.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 20, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> I also talked about Wisconsin.
> 
> You would have noticed if you had read what I said about Wisconsin.
> 
> ...


First of all, you were talking about Georgia and I called you out.

Second, you do understand that somebody has to bring a lawsuit for the courts to rule on it, right? Courts don't just rule on things they see in the world. Since nobody brought a lawsuit until recently, the court never ruled on it in 2016. Why am I having to explain simple concepts to you?


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 20, 2022)

So if we're having hearings over riots when are the tens of thousands of hearings going to happen for the BLM riots that took place?


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 20, 2022)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/22/who-caused-violence-protests-its-not-antifa/

https://thehill.com/changing-americ...-of-the-black-lives-matter-protests-where-do/

https://apnews.com/article/american...ota-burglary-bb2404f9b13c8b53b94c73f818f6a0b7

Imagine being so white supremacist you ignore the thousands of arrests made during the BLM riots cuz you're jealous no one in the Jan 6 bullshit is getting off scot free.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Jul 20, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/22/who-caused-violence-protests-its-not-antifa/
> 
> https://thehill.com/changing-americ...-of-the-black-lives-matter-protests-where-do/
> 
> ...


I eagerly await the inevitable cope from the right of "W-W-WELL EVERYONE WHO PROTESTED SHOULD BE ARRESTED, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING"

I swear these goobers get offended by ANYTHING these days.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 20, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I eagerly await the inevitable cope from the right of "W-W-WELL EVERYONE WHO PROTESTED SHOULD BE ARRESTED, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING"
> 
> I swear these goobers get offended by ANYTHING these days.



It's been a full 8 hours and nothing. I'm surprised I haven't been quoted multiple times with shots about believing corporate media or that my sites are biased fakery or just being called a "leftie" for posting pertinent facts they can't ignore or manipulate. 

Anyway, I just glanced an article that says Trump is allegedly making a September announcement for his 2024 candidacy. Holy hell here we go again.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 21, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/22/who-caused-violence-protests-its-not-antifa/
> 
> https://thehill.com/changing-americ...-of-the-black-lives-matter-protests-where-do/
> 
> ...


Making arrests is one thing. Convictions are another.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Making arrests is one thing. Convictions are another.



https://theprosecutionproject.org/

This site tracks arrest and prosecution data for socio-political violence, both at the Jan 6th insurrection and the George Floyd riots in particular, which tally around 950~ and 1600~ respectively. Now, I've previewed the data and it seems there's an overwhelmingly high rate of conviction, but you would have to do the extra legwork if you want a more scrutinized comparison. 

Next?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 21, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> https://theprosecutionproject.org/
> 
> This site tracks arrest and prosecution data for socio-political violence, both at the Jan 6th insurrection and the George Floyd riots in particular, which tally around 950~ and 1600~ respectively. Now, I've previewed the data and it seems there's an overwhelmingly high rate of conviction, but you would have to do the extra legwork if you want a more scrutinized comparison.
> 
> Next?


It would be interesting to compare how many BLM rioters spent over a year in prison with no trial only to plead guilty to simple trespassing.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> It would be interesting to compare how many BLM rioters spent over a year in prison with no trial only to plead guilty to simple trespassing.



Compare it to what?

Careful how you answer; you're getting dangerously close to implying that you empathize with BLM rioters.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> Compare it to what?
> 
> Careful how you answer; you're getting dangerously close to implying that you empathize with BLM rioters.


What group of people have been in jail for over a year with no trial now? The ones who finally have received a trial mostly plead guilty to simple trespassing. Can you figure this out from the context clues given or do I have to spell it out for you?


----------



## Lacius (Jul 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> mostly plead guilty to simple trespassing


Conservatives really do live in a different universe.
https://time.com/6133336/jan-6-capitol-riot-arrests-sentences/


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Conservatives really do live in a different universe.
> https://time.com/6133336/jan-6-capitol-riot-arrests-sentences/



I'm pretty convinced by this point that conservatives are a political cult. There's no amount of facts or statistics or common sense or even basic reasoning that will un-brainwash these people.


----------



## Nothereed (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> I'm pretty convinced by this point that conservatives are a political cult. There's no amount of facts or statistics or common sense or even basic reasoning that will un-brainwash these people.


there isn't any way to convince them. Unless something personal happens to them that makes them seriously reconsider, there is nothing. Only they can choose to walk out. It is a cult. Talking from personal experience.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Conservatives really do live in a different universe.
> https://time.com/6133336/jan-6-capitol-riot-arrests-sentences/


Not sure what you are trying to prove, but one thing I noticed is that not a single person has been convicted of treason, sedition or insurrection. There is also only one person with gun charges. Imagine trying to take over the government and only one person brought any firearms. However, I did notice this excerpt in the second paragraph.

An additional 57 rioters have been sentenced to periods of home detention, *while most sentences have included fines, community service and probation for low-level offenses like illegally parading or demonstrating in the Capitol, which is a misdemeanor.*

In the end, the narrative of J6 is falling apart. Nobody really cares about it as an issue and people are noticing that they are being treated differently than the BLM rioters that caused billions in damage, mostly in black neighborhoods, and dozens murdered. On J6, only two people were killed and they were killed by Capitol Police. One shot and one beaten to death. Both were women.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> In the end, the narrative of J6 is falling apart. Nobody really cares about it as an issue


Like I said, different universes.


----------



## Nothereed (Jul 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Not sure what you are trying to prove, but one thing I noticed is that not a single person has been convicted of treason, *sedition* or insurrection.


https://www.npr.org/2022/04/29/1095...lty-to-seditious-conspiracy-in-the-jan-6-riot
Wouldn't it suck to suck? Further more treason is the hardest claim to substantiate, since it's defined as levying war on the united states. However... Trump has a higher than normal possibility of actually getting that charge to stick on him. Since he brought a armed insurrection to the capital, and had gone on to state that mike pence deserves to be hanged. Essentially attempting to kill the election certification process. Which pretty sure that would count as a form of levying war. Granted i'm not keeping my hopes up for that.


----------



## KingVamp (Jul 22, 2022)

Well, if Republicans themselves can't even convince them how messed up this all is, nothing will.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Like I said, different universes.


Like HE says "people live in the matrix".
The irony of the zero self-awarness is tragically hilarious.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 22, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Well, if Republicans themselves can't even convince them how messed up this all is, nothing will.



Don't be mistaken. most of them know EXACTLY what they did.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Like I said, different universes.


Check any national poll of most important issues to Americans. The least important, if it even polls are J6, climate change, abortion, gun control. I don't care if you don't believe me. I'm loving that those are the issues that the left are campaigning on instead of the real issues Americans care about. 

Stay in your echo chamber with the other kids, sport.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Check any national poll of most important issues to Americans. The least important, if it even polls are J6, climate change, abortion, gun control. I don't care if you don't believe me. I'm loving that those are the issues that the left are campaigning on instead of the real issues Americans care about.
> 
> Stay in your echo chamber with the other kids, sport.



What.
According to....

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-as-the-top-problem-facing-the-country-today/

... Gun control and climate change are in the top six concerns for all Americans, regardless of political position. Abortion is toward the bottom of this list, yes, which makes it even more odd that Roe v Wade got randomly overturned halfway during Biden's presidency, and right before the Jan 6 hearings. Lumping in the J6 hearings with things like inflation and climate change is just bad manners; it's a court case about a one time incident that isn't consistently prevalent like what's been mentioned so far. 

Are you making stuff up again because I have yet to see anything realistic in your claims thus far.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> Are you making stuff up again because I have yet to see anything realistic in your claims thus far.


Shhhh, he'll claim that you didn't point out his nonsense and that "you look silly".


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> What.
> According to....
> 
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-as-the-top-problem-facing-the-country-today/
> ...


People don't vote for the top 6 concerns. They vote for the most important issue.

The Dobbs decision is only odd because you are accustomed to courts legislating from the bench, so the few times that they actually hand out constitutional rulings, you and your buddies around here are dumbfounded.

It's bad manners pointing out the obvious?


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> People don't vote for the top 6 concerns. They vote for the most important issue.
> 
> The Dobbs decision is only odd because you are accustomed to courts legislating from the bench, so the few times that they actually hand out constitutional rulings, you and your buddies around here are dumbfounded.
> 
> It's bad manners pointing out the obvious?



*sighs* What.

You said, check the poll. Polls are where people vote. People used the polls, voted, to recognize gun control and climate change as the top 6 concerns for all Americans everywhere. This is not a point you can argue; it's literally there in plain sight. 

No, the Dobbs  decision is important because, alongside the dehumanization of women, it's being used as a distraction to detract from what else is going on, and to give you a hint, it's more than just gas prices and incompetency. For example, in many of the polls you'll find education low at the list of growing concerns... I wonder why 

You can copy/paste that rhetoric when you actually point out something obvious. As of yet it's all been misdirection and blatant fact bending.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> *sighs* What.
> 
> You said, check the poll. Polls are where people vote. People used the polls, voted, to recognize gun control and climate change as the top 6 concerns for all Americans everywhere. This is not a point you can argue; it's literally there in plain sight.
> 
> ...


My God, I envy your patience and attitude so much. No impulse to tell that imbecile to F OFF.


----------



## omgcat (Jul 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> My God, I envy your patience and attitude so much. No impulse to tell that imbecile to F OFF.


i gotta say, dealing with half the people on this forum is fucked. like you can link multiple peer-reviewed studies and pictures you took yourself and they'll still be like "BUT IT'S ALL A JEWISH CONSPIRACY! LOOK AT THIS PIECE OF BREAD WITH THE FACE OF MAYER AMSCHEL ROTHSCHILD". constantly spewing the stupidest most easily fact checked nonsense ever. if you post the most basic and easy to understand stats they just reel back and scream "don't entrance me with those black magic numbers!".


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> My God, I envy your patience and attitude so much. No impulse to tell that imbecile to F OFF.



Oh trust me I get close sometimes lol. Luckily having narrative based therapy every week helps me keep focus. That and meditation lmao


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jul 22, 2022)

It's the same folks that say "Fact don't care about your feelings" and "Facts and Logic" and then quote the bible and claim that any science past a certain date or that supports the opposite of their view is "Libtard science that should be ignored".


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> What.
> According to....
> 
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-as-the-top-problem-facing-the-country-today/
> ...


You act like the Supreme Court purposely filed the Dobbs case in the lower courts, forced them to rule on it a certain way to ensure it gets up to them, just so they could strike it down halfway during Biden's residency. If the right can plan this, then the left has no chance.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 22, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> *sighs* What.
> 
> You said, check the poll. Polls are where people vote. People used the polls, voted, to recognize gun control and climate change as the top 6 concerns for all Americans everywhere. This is not a point you can argue; it's literally there in plain sight.
> 
> ...


If you think education is not an important concern, you didn't pay attention to the Virginia election. Youngkin won by running on education. Education is a big concern for parents, especially since 181 educators have been charged with child sex crimes this year alone. Teachers are making Catholic priests blush with jealousy.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You act like the Supreme Court purposely filed the Dobbs case in the lower courts, forced them to rule on it a certain way to ensure it gets up to them, just so they could strike it down halfway during Biden's residency. If the right can plan this, then the left has no chance.



No, I act like the overturn was a distraction because it happened halfway during a democratic presidency, when Trump had four years to push for it and did nothing. It's not because of pro life, it's control and distraction. 



TraderPatTX said:


> If you think education is not an important concern, you didn't pay attention to the Virginia election. Youngkin won by running on education. Education is a big concern for parents, especially since 181 educators have been charged with child sex crimes this year alone. Teachers are making Catholic priests blush with jealousy.



Where did I say that "I" didn't think education wasn't important? Better check your polls, cuz it seems you're a little behind in your information.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 23, 2022)

SonowRaevius said:


> It's the same folks that say "Fact don't care about your feelings" and "Facts and Logic" and then quote the bible and claim that any science past a certain date or that supports the opposite of their view is "Libtard science that should be ignored".


Imagine unironically talking about "facts from the bible".


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 25, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> No, I act like the overturn was a distraction because it happened halfway during a democratic presidency, when Trump had four years to push for it and did nothing. It's not because of pro life, it's control and distraction.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say that "I" didn't think education wasn't important? Better check your polls, cuz it seems you're a little behind in your information.


So you feel that the bad orange man planned all of this years in advance to make Biden look bad, but at the same time the left believes that he's an idiot? I hope you stretched those hammies before undertaking all of that mental gymnastics.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> So you feel that the bad orange man planned all of this years in advance to make Biden look bad, but at the same time the left believes that he's an idiot? I hope you stretched those hammies before undertaking all of that mental gymnastics.



How cute of you to put words in my mouth. 

If at any point I thought Trump had the power, or even the mental prowess, to plan all of this like some even villain, I'd have a lot more respect for him. The fact is in that sense, and many others, he's a whiny child who throws tantrums when things don't go his way.

No, Trump was garbage overall, and Biden isn't far behind, but presidents are nothing more then figureheads and corporate martyrs these days. For someone to plan this ahead of time, you're going to need someone who can analyze strategically and accurately predict a lot of things, which neither president is good at.

I'm also curious why you think this is something that's been "planned" for such a long time. I feel like it's all in response to some power move being done behind the scenes. We've suddenly started putting in the motions to become isolationist again, and that could turn out to be quite scary.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 26, 2022)

Is this you?

*No, I act like the overturn was a distraction because it happened halfway during a democratic presidency, when Trump had four years to push for it and did nothing. It's not because of pro life, it's control and distraction.*

If it's a distraction, somebody had to plan and execute it halfway thru a democrat residency. Who was this person or people who created this distraction?

Another option is that you don't know what certain words mean, like distraction and control or you are just a BlueAnon conspiracy wackadoodle. Next you're gonna tell me that there is a pee tape of the bad orange man in a hotel with Russian prostitutes.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Is this you?
> 
> *No, I act like the overturn was a distraction because it happened halfway during a democratic presidency, when Trump had four years to push for it and did nothing. It's not because of pro life, it's control and distraction.*
> 
> ...



Yeah, it sure is me. Should I quote it too cuz it still seems like you're struggling a bit to understand. 

So your argument is that because I'm not implying that Trump made the plan, my argument of said distraction is false? And that I don't understand words because my conspiracy theory is different from yours?

It doesn't take almost six years to overturn something supposedly based off shoddy principle; they could have done that at any time, not during the presidency of someone who's party isn't against it primarily and definitely not when we start suddenly have corporate leaders start making comments about underpopulation and needing more people bred to inhabit Mars. No, it's more than that, and unfortunately your president-god-king doesn't have the mental acuity to pull that off. His strings are getting pulled just as much as Biden's.

 For someone who routinely likes to point out that bipartisan blame is nonsense and all we lefties bootlick corporate overlords, it seems like between you and I, I'm the only one who actually preaches the rhetoric you claim to uphold. 

Try harder, sweet thing.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 26, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> Yeah, it sure is me. Should I quote it too cuz it still seems like you're struggling a bit to understand.
> 
> So your argument is that because I'm not implying that Trump made the plan, my argument of said distraction is false? And that I don't understand words because my conspiracy theory is different from yours?
> 
> ...


All I did was ask who do you think orchestrated it. You didn't have to start crying about it. 

What is it with the leftists tonight? You all are super sensitive.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 26, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> Yeah, it sure is me. Should I quote it too cuz it still seems like you're struggling a bit to understand.


"A bit". How generous of you.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 26, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> All I did was ask who do you think orchestrated it. You didn't have to start crying about it.
> 
> What is it with the leftists tonight? You all are super sensitive.



Who's crying? 

Who do I think orchestrated it? Whoever's got big movement behind the scenes. My money's on corporate overlords.



Dark_Ansem said:


> "A bit". How generous of you.




Seeing the way this person argues more often than not, they need a little generosity every now and then. You can tell they struggle.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 27, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> Who's crying?
> 
> Who do I think orchestrated it? Whoever's got big movement behind the scenes. My money's on corporate overlords.
> 
> ...


If you don't know, just say you don't know. I freely admit when I don't know something. I just find it interesting seeing you dip into conspiracy theory territory about some cabal planning court cases years in advance with perfect timing, unless of course, you have proof, then I would love to see it.

You got any guesses? Jeff Bezos looks like Lex Luthor. My money is on him. Maybe Elon or even the Walton family?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> you don't know, just say you don't know. I freely admit when I don't know something



If this were true, all your messages should say so but instead you keep vomiting conspiracies and nonsense every other message.


----------



## Acid_Snake (Jul 27, 2022)

So when are the hearings for Biden's laptop?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 27, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> So when are the hearings for Biden's laptop?


When actual evidence of corruption is found, not something you lot imagine it exists.


----------



## KingVamp (Jul 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> When actual evidence of corruption is found, not something you lot imagine it exists.


How about when it has anything to do with the people that tried to overturn an election.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 27, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> How about when it has anything to do with the people that tried to overturn an election.



Oh so never then


----------



## Nothereed (Jul 27, 2022)

"Biden son did bad thing!"
Is he in a position of power? The sitting president? Senator? House rep? White house staff? No? Okay then I don't give many fucks about it. Also I really love how ya'll keep saying "leftists never say anything bad about democrat president x"
Which if idk. You read what I said. At all. You would of realized I don't like biden, not a huge fan of Obama primarily because just like bush, and trump, should be considered war criminals for the amount of civillan lives lost due to drone strikes. Or that I believe much much earlier on, I brought up how biden made a oil deal with gas giants instead of focusing on climate change. But of course no, I just must really like kissing the boots of parties I supposedly like, even when I don't.
Though it seems you can't seem to understand that while we absolutely are not a huge fan of the Democratic party. The republican party is so much worse that if we HAD to pick between the two choices, it likely would be democrat. Presuming a independent like Bernie was not an option


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jul 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I brought up how biden made a oil deal with gas giants instead of focusing on climate change.



Are you sure about this? Biden's focus on climate change is blocked by Congress, and if you're referring to his meeting in Saudi Arabia, nothing came of it.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> If this were true, all your messages should say so but instead you keep vomiting conspiracies and nonsense every other message.


Do you ever get tired of attacking me? Every single reply from you is an attack. It's like you wanna date me or something.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> "Biden son did bad thing!"
> Is he in a position of power? The sitting president? Senator? House rep? White house staff? No? Okay then I don't give many fucks about it. Also I really love how ya'll keep saying "leftists never say anything bad about democrat president x"
> Which if idk. You read what I said. At all. You would of realized I don't like biden, not a huge fan of Obama primarily because just like bush, and trump, should be considered war criminals for the amount of civillan lives lost due to drone strikes. Or that I believe much much earlier on, I brought up how biden made a oil deal with gas giants instead of focusing on climate change. But of course no, I just must really like kissing the boots of parties I supposedly like, even when I don't.
> Though it seems you can't seem to understand that while we absolutely are not a huge fan of the Democratic party. The republican party is so much worse that if we HAD to pick between the two choices, it likely would be democrat. Presuming a independent like Bernie was not an option


You people were demanding Don Jr be thrown in jail for the previous four years and he was not in the White House or any position of power. I swear leftists have the memory of a hamster.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Do you ever get tired of attacking me? Every single reply from you is an attack. It's like you wanna date me or something.



Stop saying lies and imbecilic things then. Even better, stop making assumptions about what I say. And don't attribute me stuff I never said, you don't have the cranial capacity.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> If you don't know, just say you don't know. I freely admit when I don't know something. I just find it interesting seeing you dip into conspiracy theory territory about some cabal planning court cases years in advance with perfect timing, unless of course, you have proof, then I would love to see it.
> 
> You got any guesses? Jeff Bezos looks like Lex Luthor. My money is on him. Maybe Elon or even the Walton family?





TraderPatTX said:


> Do you ever get tired of attacking me? Every single reply from you is an attack. It's like you wanna date me or something.



Look at the pot calling the kettle black. 

If you really wanna talk conspiracy theory, let's start with the Federal Reserve back, a private entity that owns so much money they let entire countries, like the US, borrow freely. You think there's no political buy offs or lobbying going on there? You really think Trump and Biden are at the top of this American shitshow? You also have people like the Koch brothers, meddling in political affairs and such while also being corporate deities; money is what controls today's politics, and no amount of Biden's laptops or Hilary's emails for that matter is going to prove otherwise.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 27, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> You also have people like the Koch brothers, meddling in political affairs and such while also being corporate deitie



Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Musk... all these people are A-OK!


----------



## SyphenFreht (Jul 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Musk... all these people are A-OK!



Musk lives in his own world ATM... I mean I can get behind the technological advancements and all his societal contributions, but this "underpopulation crisis" is laughable at best, and the rest of his rantings and terrible worker oriented mindset make him almost as ridiculous as Trump.

Now we've got conservative Republican figures like Carlson telling kids to skip college and have more kids than they can afford, which is going to put a direct pain on the already shoddy American economy, forcing people to go out and get government assistance so the same Republican hypocrites can demonize them for not getting better jobs and living outside their means: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ucker-carlson-fox-news-children-b2130930.html

What a dumpster fire this party turned out to be. And after all that reform the party went through after their Democratic origins...


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 27, 2022)

SyphenFreht said:


> Now we've got conservative Republican figures like Carlson telling kids to skip college and have more kids than they can afford, which is going to put a direct pain on the already shoddy American economy, forcing people to go out and get government assistance so the same Republican hypocrites can demonize them for not getting better jobs and living outside their means:


Plenty of idiots who will listen to him. After all, pro-birth is all they are. Not pro-life.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Stop saying lies and imbecilic things then. Even better, stop making assumptions about what I say. And don't attribute me stuff I never said, you don't have the cranial capacity.


You have yet to prove anything I said was a lie. You calling what say lies does not a lie make. Try harder.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 28, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You have yet to prove anything I said was a lie. You calling what say lies does not a lie make. Try harder.


You literally lied when you attributed me your own fantasy statements.


----------



## Acid_Snake (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> When actual evidence of corruption is found, not something you lot imagine it exists.


Hunter's laptop doesn't exist.
We never went to the moon.
The earth is flat (like your mom).
Reptilians run the world.
There's a lost civilization in Mars.
The earth is 6000 years old.
Eipstein killed himself.

Got any other important information to share with the world Mr. Smiley Face?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 28, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Hunter's laptop doesn't exist.
> We never went to the moon.
> The earth is flat (like your mom).
> Reptilians run the world.
> ...


I dare you to show I said even one of these things.

Also, my mom may be flat, but at least I know who she is, unlike you  did they ever discover if Harambe was your dad BTW?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> You literally lied when you attributed me your own fantasy statements.


That literally tells me nothing. Point to something specific or stop crying and leave me alone.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 28, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> That literally tells me nothing


Because you're a minus habens, duh.


TraderPatTX said:


> Point to something specific


I did.


TraderPatTX said:


> stop crying and leave me alone


You're the one here spouting nonsense and never leaving.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Because you're a minus habens, duh.
> 
> I did.
> 
> You're the one here spouting nonsense and never leaving.


Since you cannot point out anything specific, I'll assume that you are a troll and ignore you from here on out.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 28, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Since you cannot point out anything specific, I'll assume that you are a troll and ignore you from here on out.


And now you proved everyone you're actually illiterate. Thanks!


----------



## Nothereed (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> And now you proved everyone you're actually illiterate. Thanks!


That was pretty funny to watch, thanks for the free show lol.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> That was pretty funny to watch, thanks for the free show lol.


yer welcome!


----------



## Nothereed (Oct 13, 2022)

I figured I should bump this since it's still ongoing. It's been updated with the 9th day.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 13, 2022)

Are the walls closing in around dRumpf or is this the beginning of the end? Hard to tell these days, but I do enjoy watching the left get disappointed at every turn.


----------



## MariArch (Oct 13, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Are the walls closing in around dRumpf or is this the beginning of the end? Hard to tell these days, but I do enjoy watching the left get disappointed at every turn.


Right around election month too! Guess the news needed more garbo to shovel so they can distract from how shitty and or radical people like John Fetterman are. Lolol


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 13, 2022)

MariArch said:


> Right around election month too! Guess the news needed more garbo to shovel so they can distract from how shitty and or radical people like John Fetterman are. Lolol


I LOL'd when I saw Saudi Arabia tell Biden to take his quid pro quo and go pound sand.


----------



## mrdude (Oct 13, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I LOL'd when I saw Saudi Arabia tell Biden to take his quid pro quo and go pound sand.


I bet the Saudi's were also laughing when the Dems shelved the keystone pipeline and stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases and also at this:

America in single word as "ASUFUTIMAEHAEHFUTBW" - Joe Biden
‘Let Me Start Off With Two Words, Made In America’ - Joe Biden


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 14, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I bet the Saudi's were also laughing when the Dems shelved the keystone pipeline and stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases and also at this:
> 
> America in single word as "ASUFUTIMAEHAEHFUTBW" - Joe Biden
> ‘Let Me Start Off With Two Words, Made In America’ - Joe Biden



hE hAs A sTuTtErInG pRoBlEm!!


----------



## mrdude (Oct 14, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> hE hAs A sTuTtErInG pRoBlEm!!


He is a retard, firstly he goes begging to Saudi for oil, a country (backed up by USA) waging genocide in Yemen for the last 7 years and who's leader personally ordered a US resident to get hacksawed up into small parts then shoved into bags to be disposed off. Then he goes begging to Venezuela, another country on the USA's naughty step. All this begging when he and his party destroyed the USA's energy production and markets.......then tried to blame it on Russia.


----------



## Jayro (Oct 14, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Are the walls closing in around dRumpf or is this the beginning of the end? Hard to tell these days, but I do enjoy watching the left get disappointed at every turn.


Teflon Don is squirming, and I'm enjoying every second of his torture. Even Teflon eventually flakes off and crumbles away.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 14, 2022)

Imagine being so doubtful and he got subpoenad right after that haha


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 14, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Teflon Don is squirming, and I'm enjoying every second of his torture. Even Teflon eventually flakes off and crumbles away.


I love when new precedents are set.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 14, 2022



Dark_Ansem said:


> Imagine being so doubtful and he got subpoenad right after that haha


Personally, I hope they move to arrest Trump right before the midterms. That would be epic.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 15, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I bet the Saudi's were also laughing when the Dems shelved the keystone pipeline and stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases and also at this:
> 
> America in single word as "ASUFUTIMAEHAEHFUTBW" - Joe Biden
> ‘Let Me Start Off With Two Words, Made In America’ - Joe Biden




Your entire "stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases" is complete misinformation. And as far as your videos, there are plenty on YouTube showing Trump unable to speak properly, stumbling over words, and saying the dumbest things I've ever heard a person say. In fact, there are FAR more of Trump doing these things than there are of Biden. FAR, FAR more. I will ask, why did you not post any of those for comparison sake? They didn't fit your agenda, or?


----------



## mrdude (Oct 15, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Your entire "stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases" is complete misinformation. And as far as your videos, there are plenty on YouTube showing Trump unable to speak properly, stumbling over words, and saying the dumbest things I've ever heard a person say. In fact, there are FAR more of Trump doing these things than there are of Biden. FAR, FAR more. I will ask, why did you not post any of those for comparison sake? They didn't fit your agenda, or?


Why are you mentioning Trump, this is nothing to do with him at all - this is to do with Biden being a totally incompetent idiot. You have TDS and can't get him out of your head...as soon as someone mentions Biden, you automatically think about Trump.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 16, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Why are you mentioning Trump, this is nothing to do with him at all - this is to do with Biden being a totally incompetent idiot. You have TDS and can't get him out of your head...as soon as someone mentions Biden, you automatically think about Trump.



Hmmmm. Have you noticed the name of the thread? I'm pretty certain Trump is the topic here. And why are you answering questions with a question? Can you simply answer mine? Or no? And while you're at it, plese provide your proofs of "stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases". Or are you going to side step that one too, by presenting another question of your own?


----------



## smf (Oct 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Are the walls closing in around dRumpf or is this the beginning of the end? Hard to tell these days, but I do enjoy watching the left get disappointed at every turn.


I think you might be having some issues with reality, the left think everything is hilarious right now.

Trump, Alex Jones, Mike Lindell, all the trolls are being pwnd.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 16, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Hmmmm. Have you noticed the name of the thread? I'm pretty certain Trump is the topic here. And why are you answering questions with a question? Can you simply answer mine? Or no? And while you're at it, plese provide your proofs of "stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases". Or are you going to side step that one too, by presenting another question of your own?



I'm not gonna claim to be "up" the subject, but I was curious and 2 seconds on google produced some pretty clear results.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 16, 2022)

smf said:


> I think you might be having some issues with reality, the left think everything is hilarious right now.
> 
> Trump, Alex Jones, Mike Lindell, all the trolls are being pwnd.


Cool. Internet lingo from 2002. Don't let the classics die.

You know who is being pwnd right now? The FBI. Durham is getting them to admit a lot of lies on the witness stand in sworn testimony. Also, the CEO of Konnech was arrested for illegally housing data on American poll workers on servers in China.

Trump, Jones and Lindell stories are distractions to keep people like you occupied on shiny objects and propaganda.


----------



## mrdude (Oct 16, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> And while you're at it, plese provide your proofs of "stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases". Or are you going to side step that one too, by presenting another question of your own?


TBH, it's pointless providing any proof for anything to a lefty as their brains can't process the information. If you are too lazy to find out this information for yourself you are going to continue to be ignorant because I am not one for spoon feeding the uneducated. If you can't keep up with the news, perhaps you need to get out of your bubble for a while.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 16, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> I'm not gonna claim to be "up" the subject, but I was curious and 2 seconds on google produced some pretty clear results.
> 
> View attachment 332252


Joe Biden paused new oil and gas leases in 2021 via EO, it was (literally) the first thing he did after assuming office, he signed the order on his first day. He was sued in federal court for doing so and initially lost, but the appeals court ruled in favour of the administration. The freeze was reinstated in August this year. As far as lease cancellations are concerned, he reneged on several sites in Alaska’s Cook Inlet (May 2022) and the Gulf of Mexico (February 2021, May 2022), not to mention that he revoked the border permit for Keystone XL, effectively cancelling the extension (June 2021). I don’t know why people argue about this at all, all of these things made international news and are easily Googleable.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 16, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Hmmmm. Have you noticed the name of the thread? I'm pretty certain Trump is the topic here. And why are you answering questions with a question? Can you simply answer mine? Or no? And while you're at it, plese provide your proofs of "stopped oil companies from drilling and cancelled leases". Or are you going to side step that one too, by presenting another question of your own?


Trump is not the topic for the Jan 6 committee. The initial claim was that he inspired violence that morning during his speech. Now the Oathkeepers are pleading guilty for planning the violence well in advance. Trump has been exonerated. Anything having to do with Trump now is complete panic and desperation about the midterms.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/lead...s-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-and-obstruction


----------



## Nothereed (Oct 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Trump is not the topic for the Jan 6 committee. The initial claim was that he inspired violence that morning during his speech. Now the Oathkeepers are pleading guilty for planning the violence well in advance. Trump has been exonerated. Anything having to do with Trump now is complete panic and desperation about the midterms.
> 
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/lead...s-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-and-obstruction


Had you watch the hearings at all.
You would of learned that Trump planned on this. His speech was drafted with "we won this election. Stop the counts"  in *August*
you don't draft a speech that early on. Especially proclaiming victory .
He KNEW by all his advisors that the election was not stolen.
He took advantage that left leaning people voted through mail in ballots. Since democrats and left leaning people used those services more than Republicans and right wingers because he stigmatized mail in voting.
He is the topic of jan6th. Because jan6th could of only have happened because of him. He was the one who setup the date. He was the one to say "proudboys standback and standby"
 He was the one who broke out roger stone. Who had connections to oath keepers.
He was the one who intentionally ignored keeping national gaurd nearby. Since even they had warned him that something was going to happen. And he told them to go home and loosen security despite the information they collected pointing otherwise.
But the most damming piece of information. Was last hearing.
The former communications director popped into the oval office, while trump watching TV about a week after the 2020 election. And trump said this
"Can you believe I lost to this f---ing guy?"
TRUMP KNEW he had lost. But LIED.
Everything he did after that point. The election challanges, his claims, all of it was to rile up his base. He wanted a coup.
That's as direct from the horses mouth as your going to get. Which fits with all the other witnesses testimony. The vast majority who have testified are not democrats. It's republicans. If you honestly cannot see that. Then well.
Sucks to be you then


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 16, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Had you watch the hearings at all.
> You would of learned that Trump planned on this. His speech was drafted with "we won this election. Stop the counts"  in *August*
> you don't draft a speech that early on. Especially proclaiming victory .
> He KNEW by all his advisors that the election was not stolen.


Trump is inside your head, not the other way around. You have no idea what he knows.


Nothereed said:


> He took advantage that left leaning people voted through mail in ballots. Since democrats and left leaning people used those services more than Republicans and right wingers because he stigmatized mail in voting.


He told the truth. Look at 2,000 Mules and Eugene Yu's arrest.


Nothereed said:


> He is the topic of jan6th. Because jan6th could of only have happened because of him. He was the one who setup the date.


He didn't set the date to count the Electoral College votes you dolt.


Nothereed said:


> He was the one to say "proudboys standback and standby"
> He was the one who broke out roger stone. Who had connections to oath keepers.


You lack proof.


Nothereed said:


> He was the one who intentionally ignored keeping national gaurd nearby. Since even they had warned him that something was going to happen. And he told them to go home and loosen security despite the information they collected pointing otherwise.


He offered the National Guard. Nancy turned them down and had a film crew follow her around that day. She knew there would be trouble and was hoping to catch it on film.

The president lacks the authority to send the National Guard wherever he pleases without authorization from a governor, but in this case the mayor of DC and Nancy Pelosi, unless you are a fascist authoritarian.


----------



## Nothereed (Oct 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You lack proof


https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000008441331/roger-stone-oath-keepers-chat.html
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/23/949820820/trump-pardons-roger-stone-paul-manafort-and-charles-kushner
Trump pardoned him.
I don't lack evidence. You choose to look away at every turn. Do you not remember Trump pardoning stone?
Do you not remember seeing the messages from him earlier in this thread.


TraderPatTX said:


> Trump is inside your head, not the other way around. You have no idea what he knows.


We know what he knows from everyone around him. We know from the actions they took, the testimony they provided. Either you look at the evidence, or you don't.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 17, 2022)

mrdude said:


> TBH, it's pointless providing any proof for anything to a lefty as their brains can't process the information. If you are too lazy to find out this information for yourself you are going to continue to be ignorant because I am not one for spoon feeding the uneducated. If you can't keep up with the news, perhaps you need to get out of your bubble for a while.



Exactly the type of answer I expected, and the one usually given when a person has absolutely nothing to back up their statements.



Hanafuda said:


> I'm not gonna claim to be "up" the subject, but I was curious and 2 seconds on google produced some pretty clear results.



You can't just look at Google result headlines. How about reading the actual articles?



Foxi4 said:


> Joe Biden paused new oil and gas leases in 2021 via EO, it was (literally) the first thing he did after assuming office, he signed the order on his first day. He was sued in federal court for doing so and initially lost, but the appeals court ruled in favour of the administration. The freeze was reinstated in August this year. As far as lease cancellations are concerned, he reneged on several sites in Alaska’s Cook Inlet (May 2022) and the Gulf of Mexico (February 2021, May 2022), not to mention that he revoked the border permit for Keystone XL, effectively cancelling the extension (June 2021). I don’t know why people argue about this at all, all of these things made international news and are easily Googleable.



Biden did not try to block all drilling and did not block any drilling. He doesn't even have the authority to block domestic drilling. He tried to pause NEW leases on federal land. The oil companies are the ones refusing to drill, Biden stopped nothing except the completion of the pipeline. Do you realize how many existing leases there are that are not even being used? Any idea at all?



TraderPatTX said:


> Trump is not the topic for the Jan 6 committee. The initial claim was that he inspired violence that morning during his speech. Now the Oathkeepers are pleading guilty for planning the violence well in advance. Trump has been exonerated. Anything having to do with Trump now is complete panic and desperation about the midterms.
> 
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/lead...s-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-and-obstruction



Wait. But Joe Biden's stuttering is? Did you even read the full conversation prior to replying to it?


----------



## smf (Oct 17, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Trump, Jones and Lindell stories are distractions to keep people like you occupied on shiny objects and propaganda.


You sound like Putin, the russian army being killed are just distractions too.

No, it's your best people being dealt with. So sad for you.



TraderPatTX said:


> Trump is inside your head, not the other way around. You have no idea what he knows.


He knows you idiots will keep suckling his cock forever.

If Trump is innocent of anything to do with January 6th, he's spending a lot of time and money to make himself look guilty. If he allows himself to be found guilty of contempt of congress, then he's even dumber than I gave him credit for.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Biden did not try to block all drilling and did not block any drilling. He doesn't even have the authority to block domestic drilling. He tried to pause NEW leases on federal land. The oil companies are the ones refusing to drill, Biden stopped nothing except the completion of the pipeline. Do you realize how many existing leases there are that are not even being used? Any idea at all?


Nothing I said was incorrect. If I were a CEO of a multibillion dollar oil and gas behemoth, I would think twice about spending millions of dollars (in the case of XL 9 billion) on extraction/transport infrastructure if the possibility of my projects being frozen or outright cancelled was very real. Government can burn money all day every day, private business does not have that luxury. If the administration wants to see more drilling, it needs to provide better assurance that the investments won’t be interfered with.

For the record, the administration absolutely does have the authority to block domestic drilling via the weaponised EPA, just like they had the authority to shut down business in the country via the weaponised CDC. You’re talking about this as if government overreach was a foreign concept. The U.S. Executive branch has been overstepping its bounds for decades, this isn’t some kind of new development.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...basin-widening-bidens-war-on-oil-and-gas/amp/


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Nothing I said was incorrect.


Nothing was correct either however, as we know you have this tendency to mispresent and not disclose your sources, like all that nonsense about "Switzerland has the best healthcare ever, look, this thinktank says so!" and failing to specify it's a LIBERTARIAN thinktank AKA one of your comrades.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Nothing was correct either however, as we know you have this tendency to mispresent and not disclose your sources, like all that nonsense about "Switzerland has the best healthcare ever, look, this thinktank says so!" and failing to specify it's a LIBERTARIAN thinktank AKA one of your comrades.


If you don’t have a rebuttal to any of the points, don’t respond. I’m not going to humour you since you’re incapable of having a conversation.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 17, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000008441331/roger-stone-oath-keepers-chat.html
> https://www.npr.org/2020/12/23/949820820/trump-pardons-roger-stone-paul-manafort-and-charles-kushner
> Trump pardoned him.
> I don't lack evidence. You choose to look away at every turn. Do you not remember Trump pardoning stone?
> ...


All I can say is keep going after him. It's obvious to everyone that this is the most important thing to the left right now. Not inflation. Not the open border. Not possible nuclear war. It's just get Trump day in and day out. I am loving every single second.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2022



RedColoredStars said:


> Wait. But Joe Biden's stuttering is? Did you even read the full conversation prior to replying to it?


Except President Vegetable has never had a stutter before. Go back and watch archival footage of him. The new "stuttering" problem is media created to protect him. The guy doesn't even know how many words are in "Made In America".

	Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2022



smf said:


> You sound like Putin, the russian army being killed are just distractions too.


The Russian army is not being killed. That too is propaganda.


smf said:


> No, it's your best people being dealt with. So sad for you.


What are you talking about? I'm loving this. I hope the left goes after Trump even harder.


smf said:


> He knows you idiots will keep suckling his cock forever.


Can you talk like an adult? How old are you?


smf said:


> If Trump is innocent of anything to do with January 6th, he's spending a lot of time and money to make himself look guilty. If he allows himself to be found guilty of contempt of congress, then he's even dumber than I gave him credit for.


We are always innocent until proven guilty, you fascist. The left really hates that part of the justice system.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 18, 2022)

@Foxi4 @TraderPatTX @mrdude

The only thing I can do is laugh at you people. I have nothing else. The things you people come up with are so far out there that all I can do anymore is laugh. That's it. Laugh at you. Not with you. AT you. There are no words to describe your nonsense. Only laughter. Toodles.


----------



## mrdude (Oct 18, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> @Foxi4 @TraderPatTX @mrdude
> 
> The only thing I can do is laugh at you people. I have nothing else. The things you people come up with are so far out there that all I can do anymore is laugh. That's it. Laugh at you. Not with you. AT you. There are no words to describe your nonsense. Only laughter. Toodles.


I can imagine you'd jump up and down, clap and laugh if you saw a wheel going round.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 18, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I can imagine you jump up and down, clap and laugh if you saw a wheel going round.



I'm not surprised. You imagine all sorts of weird shit all the time. You probably imagine me naked too.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 18, 2022)

The 





Foxi4 said:


> If you don’t have a rebuttal to any of the points, don’t respond. I’m not going to humour you since you’re incapable of having a conversation.



The best rebuttal is that not only a "libertarian think tank" is an oxymoron, but they've also been out of such "reports" for almost a decade, making your points moot, outdated and biased.

Lol at "incapable of having a conversation" at the guy slinging insults then hiding behind mod status


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 19, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> slinging insults then hiding behind mod status



This is something I have very much noticed. Educated guess says no one higher up will ever do anything about it, regardless of how many people would report a quite large amount of their comments.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> @Foxi4 @TraderPatTX @mrdude
> 
> The only thing I can do is laugh at you people. I have nothing else. The things you people come up with are so far out there that all I can do anymore is laugh. That's it. Laugh at you. Not with you. AT you. There are no words to describe your nonsense. Only laughter. Toodles.


That’s fine. The EPA declaring a region non-attainable is equivalent to a ban on extraction in said region, and they answer directly to the chief executive. It’s just one story out of many, there are pages upon pages on the administration’s war on fossil fuels. Oil tycoons have no interest in dropping billions of dollars into quicksand. They’re not naive enough to engage in any sort of ban evasion… right? That’d be silly.




Dark_Ansem said:


> The
> 
> The best rebuttal is that not only a "libertarian think tank" is an oxymoron, but they've also been out of such "reports" for almost a decade, making your points moot, outdated and biased.
> 
> Lol at "incapable of having a conversation" at the guy slinging insults then hiding behind mod status


You’re changing the subject to healthcare because you have no rebuttal in regards to fossil fuels. For the record, Switzerland consistently ranks at the top of the list of countries with the best healthcare in the world, it’s not a _“libertarian think tank”_ idea, it’s a fact. It’s one of the best systems in the world, if not the best period - depends on who you ask. Here’s a report from 2021 - so much for _“outdated sources”_.

https://freopp.org/key-findings-from-the-freopp-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-cda78938c047

The reason why I won’t engage with you in a serious debate is specifically because you’re only capable of whataboutism - you had absolutely nothing to say about fossil fuels, so you switched to a different subject that’s in no way related - _“well sure, you said this, but what about this”_ - it’s textbook.


> whataboutism
> _noun_
> 
> The technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.


You do it consistently, it’s very transparent and predictable. The funny part is that you’re equally poorly-equipped to discuss healthcare, but it was your choice, not mine. If you want to write a long sermon about how you think healthcare should work, you’re welcome to do so, but I’m not required to listen to your bloviating.

Once again, if you have no to-the-point rebuttal, you have no business responding. Since you are responding regardless, I have to interpret that as a (poorly-executed) attempt at attacking my character, or an (equally poorly-executed) attempt at trolling. I’m not interested in either, I’m only interested in the administration’s poor handling of the fuel crisis, at least at this time.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The reason why I won’t engage with you in a serious debate is specifically because you’re only capable of whataboutism - you had absolutely nothing to say about fossil fuels, so you switched to a different subject that’s in no way related - _“well sure, you said this, but what about this”_ - it’s textbook.


I had actually something very relevant to say about your disingenous claim that you don't say "incorrect stuff". Your fault for claiming it as some sort of fact in the thread as if your name can equate to an "appeal to authority". If you didn't want to make it relevant, then you should have refrained from this embarassingly wrong self-praise.


Foxi4 said:


> You’re changing the subject to healthcare because you have no rebuttal in regards to fossil fuels. For the record, Switzerland consistently ranks at the top of the list of countries with the best healthcare in the world, it’s not a _“libertarian think tank”_ idea, it’s a fact. It’s one of the best systems in the world, if not the best period - depends on who you ask. Here’s a report from 2021 - so much for _“outdated sources”_.
> 
> https://freopp.org/key-findings-from-the-freopp-world-index-of-healthcare-innovation-cda78938c047


Oh, look, it's another RIGHTWING think tank from the US which claims to be non-partisan whose main legal objective is the repeal of ACA in the USA LMAO It's really in your DNA to be disingenous!

Seriously, no one said that Switzerland has bad healthcare. But your infatuation with the hellscape that is insurance system is borderline ridiculous.

And no, I didn't make any comment about fossil fuels because I already made my position known ages ago: drop them. I even changed my mind about nuclear, but there's no doubt we'd all be powered up by solar-wind, heck even geothermal. A well-placed Solar plant in Italy could provide energy for the whole european continent, just like Nobel Prize Carlo Rubbia claimed about Solar power in the sahara. Desertec is still a thing.

And note: Nobel Prize, name AND Surname, NOT vague think-tanks dropped there with no bias check.


Foxi4 said:


> Once again, if you have no to-the-point rebuttal, you have no business responding. Since you are responding regardless, I have to interpret that as a (poorly-executed) attempt at attacking my character, or an (equally poorly-executed) attempt at trolling. I’m not interested in either, I’m only interested in the administration’s poor handling of the fuel crisis, at least at this time.


It's a precisation about stuff you do for people who just joined the thread to thread lightly around you. I noticed you couldn't help yourself from attacking me with your baseless claims.


Foxi4 said:


> The reason why I won’t engage with you in a serious debate is specifically because you’re only capable of whataboutism - you had absolutely nothing to say about fossil fuels, so you switched to a different subject that’s in no way related - _“well sure, you said this, but what about this”_ - it’s textbook.


Hate to break it to you, but this thread is about Jan 6th hearings. Go take your complaints about "plot derailment" to someone who cares.


----------



## tabzer (Oct 19, 2022)

Forcing people to buy "healthcare" policy is immoral.  Slave away for your good health--as pharmaceutical giants dictate how much it is worth.

If you were interested in being non-partisan, you would would refrain from treating the sources as left vs right and stick to the facts.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I had actually something very relevant to say about your disingenous claim that you don't say "incorrect stuff". Your fault for claiming it as some sort of fact in the thread as if your name can equate to an "appeal to authority". If you didn't want to make it relevant, then you should have refrained from this embarassingly wrong self-praise.
> 
> Oh, look, it's another RIGHTWING think tank from the US which claims to be non-partisan whose main legal objective is the repeal of ACA in the USA LMAO It's really in your DNA to be disingenous!
> 
> ...


You will note that this reply to my original post about the administration’s record on oil leases has nothing to do with oil leases and is another attempt at pivoting away from the problem that was being discussed.

For the record, FREOPP is considered non-partisan. Y’know who isn’t? SourceWatch, ran by the Center for Media and Democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Media_and_Democracy

You can tell by how their website looks like it was made by a child, or a loon. When I see “EXPOOOOSED!” right in the URL’s, I know this is a source I can trust.  All jokes aside, at least they have some credits to their name, but if you’re going to accuse someone of bias, pick your own sources better. Not that it matters since you seem disinterested in discussing what you originally replied to anyway.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

By who? Themselves? They self-identify as non-partisan? And here I thought you were opposed to the many genders!


Foxi4 said:


> For the record, FREOPP is considered non-partisan. Y’know who isn’t? SourceWatch, ran by the Center for Media and Democracy.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Media_and_Democracy



Doesn't say anywhere that it's partisan or unfairly biased tho.



Foxi4 said:


> You can tell by how their website looks like it was made by a child, or a loon. When I see “EXPOOOOSED!” right in the URL’s, I know this is a source I can trust.  All jokes aside, at least they have some credits to their name, but if you’re going to accuse someone of bias, pick your own sources better. Not that it matters since you seem disinterested in discussing what you originally replied to anyway



I am still discussing what I replied to. What I replied to you, of course. 

And frankly, for being a Wikipedia copy-paste, their website looks better than 90% of rightwing websites that you regularly visit!

Stop hiding behind "you're interested in discussing" nonsense as if there's someone here who has been acting in mala fide consistently, it's you.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> By who? Themselves? They self-identify as non-partisan? And here I thought you were opposed to the many genders!
> 
> 
> Doesn't say anywhere that it's partisan or unfairly biased tho.
> ...





I gave you three chances to actually respond in good faith to the original post about oil leases. Instead, you gave me another dose of whataboutism _(“yes, their page is a Wikipedia copy-paste, but the right-wing sites yada yada”, “yeah, I’m posting off-topic, but what about you yada yada”)_. Since you are so keen on proving my initial assessment correct, I’ll be ignoring your future attempts until you post something relevant (which is unlikely).


----------



## DJPlace (Oct 19, 2022)

is this a good thing or a bad thing?


----------



## mrdude (Oct 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I’ll be ignoring your future attempts until you post something relevant (which is unlikely).


TBH you're wasting your time to even bother reading what these nutjobs come up with, they don't live in reality and would argue that black is white if it would paint them as some kind of victim. You'd be better putting these menal lefty types on your ignore list and not replying to them any further as they are unable to grasp even the most basic concepts. It just lucky for them that they were born in the century they were because if they had been born 100 years ago, they wouldn't have faired well at all. If they were to go and live in a "normal" country where there's none of this woke crap - they would probably be dead within a month or so. I think they should be forced to live in North Korea for 3 months, to check out how commies really live - then see if they come back with the same mentality.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I gave you three chances to actually respond in good faith to the original post about oil leases. Instead, you gave me another dose of whataboutism _(“yes, their page is a Wikipedia copy-paste, but the right-wing sites yada yada”, “yeah, I’m posting off-topic, but what about you yada yada”)_. Since you are so keen on proving my initial assessment correct, I’ll be ignoring your future attempts until you post something relevant (which is unlikely).



I wasn't aware the "Milwaukee alternartive weekly" had such sway! I was talking about free ops brw.

You gave me "chances"? You're a nobody with too much delusional power on your hands, you said nothing about oil leases and instead of vague "chances" which you're in no authority to give anyway you'd have asked a direct question. Go back to writing classes.



mrdude said:


> *random insane ImBrexile copium*



There, there. 
3 months in North Korea would be a breeze for me. You'd die after 3 days. The regimen there values capable people, not brainless sycophants like you.


----------



## tabzer (Oct 19, 2022)

If you don't care about the people you are talking to, then why do you bother to talk to begin with?


----------



## RedColoredStars (Oct 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you don't care about the people you are talking to, then why do you bother to talk to begin with?



Explain why you haven't asked yourself the same question. Are you going to tell me you actually care about all of the people you reply to on here? My God. You people are just so incredibly bizarre and say the most strange things I've ever heard.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Explain why you haven't asked yourself the same question. Are you going to tell me you actually care about all of the people you reply to on here? My God. You people are just so incredibly bizarre and say the most strange things I've ever heard.



Expecting coherent answers from that one? Don't bother. Watching rainfall is a more productive use of your time.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I wasn't aware the "Milwaukee alternartive weekly" had such sway! I was talking about free ops brw.


Notice how you neglect to mention all the other sources listed.


> You gave me "chances"? You're a nobody with too much delusional power on your hands, you said nothing about oil leases and instead of vague "chances" which you're in no authority to give anyway you'd have asked a direct question. Go back to writing classes.


This is the post you initially responded to. We were talking about oil leases under the Biden administration. Of course you forgot, considering the fact you’re obviously not here to add to the discussion, you’re here to (fail) at sniping and cause arguments. That’s precisely why I told you I’m not interested in a serious discussion with you, and nothing has changed in that regard. Thank you for telling everyone in the thread that you’ve injected yourself into a discussion without even knowing what it’s about.

I have the best super fans, clearly.


----------



## tabzer (Oct 19, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Explain why you haven't asked yourself the same question. Are you going to tell me you actually care about all of the people you reply to on here?  My God. You people are just so incredibly bizarre and say the most strange things I've ever heard.



Yes.  I sincerely do.  As much as I want to rile people up, it is because I care about them that I even bother.  If I have offended you, please direct me to the where and the how.  I'm more than obliged to address all of your concerns.  That's not sarcasm, btw.

Also, "You people"?  I don't personally identify with a single person here.  Maybe the world is too big for you, that someone like me would seem "bizarre".  Who are my kin?  Why am I bizarre?  I could be angry and say "fuck you" but I am pretty certain that is the feeling you get by having me respond to you, despite my honest intention.



Dark_Ansem said:


> Expecting coherent answers from that one? Don't bother. Watching rainfall is a more productive use of your time.



Considering that watching rainfall is therapeutic, and therapy is what you need, then yes.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> This is the post you initially responded to. We were talking about oil leases under the Biden administration. Of course you forgot, considering the fact you’re obviously not here to add to the discussion, you’re here to (fail) at sniping and cause arguments. That’s precisely why I told you I’m not interested in a serious discussion with you, and nothing has changed in that regard. Thank you for telling everyone in the thread that you’ve injected yourself into a discussion without even knowing what it’s about.
> 
> I have the best super fans, clearly.



Actually I didn't reply to the post. I replied to a very single specific point made in that post, which I quoted. Do you know what quoting implies? I didn't care at all about the oil point, otherwise I would have quoted that. Like I basically do at every message. And it's not exactly new behaviour.

So yeah, the one incapable of having an honest conversation, in the end, is you, because you clearly cannot help yourself from engaging in bad faith.

And obviously my (unintentional) sniping touched a nerve since all your delusions of grandeur and finesse have dissolved. Not that sniping was my purpose, as I said I just wanted to emphasise a tendency of yours to engage in clear bad faith.



Foxi4 said:


> Notice how you neglect to mention all the other sources listed.



Yeah, because all your other sources are ultra right wing or libertarian-based so, once again, intellectual dishonesty at your finest. The only one that is acceptable, the NYT since its both public-owned and it won more Pulitzers than any other paper, curiously does not share your claims of it being biased. The WP, which is billionaire-owned and for that implicitly less trustworthy, only claims it is "liberal", but not left-wing, and emphasises its watchdog purposes. 

I had never heard of the LaCrosse local until today but frankly, considering it's owned by that shady Freeman who makes a living out of buying local newspapers and gutting them, I'm having a hard time taking them seriously.

Lastly, all these evaluations are moot when one looks at what your think-tank wants to achieve, and since their main objective is the repeal of ACA, it's obvious where they stand. Then again I didn't need a 3rd party to tell me, once that became known the rest became obvious.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> _*Full bowl of spaghetti*_


This is tiresome. You responded to me saying “nothing I said was incorrect”, that’s the part you quoted and apparently had a problem with. Your response was “it wasn’t correct either”. Based on that, one would assume you had a rebuttal, something that indicates which part wasn’t correct. You don’t, you just wanted to talk about me a little bit, so the conversation is over - you have nothing to add to the exchange you interrupted. I’m not interested in chit-chatting with you. I told you as much in my first reply - if you have nothing to add to the discussion, don’t bother responding, we’re not going to have tea and cookies together. If you _”don’t care”_ to talk about what we were discussing, there’s an easy fix for that - don’t.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> we’re not going to have tea and cookies together


Thank goodness for that, it's well-known you're inept at frying eggs, let alone something more complicated like boiling water!


Foxi4 said:


> This is tiresome.


Correcting your mistakes and tolerating your ill-placed smugness is indeed tiresome.


Foxi4 said:


> Based on that, one would assume you had a rebuttal, something that indicates which part wasn’t correct. You don’t, you just wanted to talk about me a little bit


I already said what I wanted to do, eat more fish as it's good for brain and memory.


Foxi4 said:


> if you have nothing to add to the discussion, don’t bother responding, we’re not going to have tea and cookies together. If you _”don’t care”_ to talk about what we were discussing, there’s an easy fix for that - don’t.


So, have I got news for you: you don't make the rules for this thread, you don't make rules in general and you most certainly don't dictate where discussion goes. You seem a tad high on imaginary power trips,


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Thank goodness for that, it's well-known you're inept at frying eggs, let alone something more complicated like boiling water!
> 
> Correcting your mistakes and tolerating your ill-placed smugness is indeed tiresome.
> 
> ...


Right. I feel like I’m having a conversation with an extraterrestrial. I’m just going to ignore you now, good luck doing whatever it is you’re doing here.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Oct 24, 2022)

mrdude said:


> this is nothing to do with him at all


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> View attachment 333593



Could you please explain?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Oct 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Could you please explain?


Nope, was way too high when I wrote it and not even I know what I meant anymore.


----------



## SScorpio (Oct 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Nope, was way too high when I wrote it and not even I know what I meant anymore.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Oct 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Could you please explain?


I think what I misread was that he was saying this topic was unrelated to Trump, so I posted the title of it. But now I realize having actually soberly *read* what I was replying to, that was unrelated so LMAO jokes on me I guess!


----------



## tabzer (Oct 25, 2022)

The joke is still on everyone else.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Oct 27, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> @Foxi4 @TraderPatTX @mrdude
> 
> The only thing I can do is laugh at you people. I have nothing else. The things you people come up with are so far out there that all I can do anymore is laugh. That's it. Laugh at you. Not with you. AT you. There are no words to describe your nonsense. Only laughter. Toodles.


I've been laughing at Canadians for years. Your PM wears blackface and you accept that as normal.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Oct 27, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I've been laughing at Canadians for years. Your PM wears blackface and you accept that as normal.


Uh, can you find anyone who does?


----------



## RedColoredStars (Nov 1, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I've been laughing at Canadians for years. Your PM wears blackface and you accept that as normal.



I do? Just more deflection and projection from you. As expected.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Nov 1, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> I do? Just more deflection and projection from you. As expected.


I don't think you understand what projection means. I don't support your blackface wearing prime minister either. I'm not sure what I could be deflecting from either, but I'm sure you have all the right answers.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Nov 2, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I don't think you understand what projection means. I don't support your blackface wearing prime minister either. I'm not sure what I could be deflecting from either, but I'm sure you have all the right answers.



Why am I not in the slighest bit surprised at your confusion? And all the right answers to what? What are you even going on about now? Your posts are a prime example of things I have previously stated. You're just so damn weird.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Nov 2, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Why am I not in the slighest bit surprised at your confusion? And all the right answers to what? What are you even going on about now? Your posts are a prime example of things I have previously stated. You're just so damn weird.


Yeah he kinda just...does that. Gishgallops in text walls and then when you call him out on talking out of his ass, he just invents more random shit. I don't think he actually even thinks, he could just be a GPT bot.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 2, 2022)

Great minds discuss ideas.  Average minds discuss events.  Small minds discuss people.

The best minds DECODE (LainaGabranth, 'function')

Larping as grandma leaves one wanting.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Nov 2, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> You're just so damn weird.


The correct word is "imbecilic", and deliberately, I'd like to say.

	Post automatically merged: Nov 2, 2022



LainaGabranth said:


> I don't think he actually even thinks, he could just be a GPT bot.


That's NPC thinking for you, worse than a bot, the guy parrots points he hears without even understanding them.


----------



## Nothereed (Dec 20, 2022)

updated with final hearing


----------



## Xzi (Dec 20, 2022)

Finally we at least get criminal referrals, doesn't mean DoJ will do anything about them though.  Garland was spineless enough to punt on the stolen classified documents, so he may well be spineless enough to punt on this as well.  Let's hope otherwise.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 20, 2022)

there are still a thing?

	Post automatically merged: Dec 20, 2022



Xzi said:


> Finally we at least get criminal referrals, doesn't mean DoJ will do anything about them though.  Garland was spineless enough to punt on the stolen classified documents, so he may well be spineless enough to punt on this as well.  Let's hope otherwise.



oh like the nuclear secrets he didnt have


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2022)

People taking this seriously have nothing invested in their own lives.  Do you like cartoons?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 20, 2022)

I forgot did he say whether he wants to run for president or not


----------



## Jayro (Dec 20, 2022)

I'm glad Merrick Garland let Jack smith loose to finally get subpoenas sent out. Jack ain't wasting time, he's out getting shit done.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 20, 2022)

Jayro said:


> I'm glad Merrick Garland let Jack smith loose to finally get subpoenas sent out. Jack ain't wasting time, he's out getting shit done.



like what wasnt trump already in jail for the last 90 things he didnt do?


----------



## Jayro (Dec 20, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> like what wasnt trump already in jail for the last 90 things he didnt do?


His walls are closing it, and he can feel it. No ketchup bottle at Mar-a-Lardo is safe.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 20, 2022)

Jayro said:


> His walls are closing it, and he can feel it. No ketchup bottle at Mar-a-Lardo is safe.



well wait just a second now, you blue hairs dont take kindly to fat shaming, whats all this about now?  similarly, werent they closing in before?


----------



## Jayro (Dec 20, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well wait just a second now, you blue hairs dont take kindly to fat shaming, whats all this about now?  similarly, werent they closing in before?


even more so now.


----------



## Smoker1 (Dec 20, 2022)

Here's the thing:
The US Declaration of Independence, the Preamble, allows for the People to take back the Government for the People in the event the Government no longer represents the People, becomes Authoritarian, Abuses it's Authority, goes against the People, stuff like that, with the 2nd Amendment being a means for the People to do so.

This does not mean that People can do this, just because someone Lost an Election, especially if that Person claims it was Stolen, without any Proof, just because that Person wants to stay in, and be a Dictator.

However, with how our Country is, I have no doubt this will have to be done, eventually. With Companies pouring Money into Elections, with Officials staying in Office for far longer than they should, just to benefit them, and make sure they stay in Office somehow, even though they go against what the People want (example: The People, most of the People, want to expand Social Security, and Medicare, but Republicans want to scrap it, along with VA Benefits, against what the People want, and are willing to hold the Country hostage, apparently to do it). Along with Churches trying to push Religious Views/Beliefs, which is against the 1st Amendment (*Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion - *which also means no forcing Religious Views or Beliefs, such as being against Abortion, or against P*** (yeah, they want to Ban it), and even the far Right wanting to ditch the Seperation of Church and State, claiming Gov should not tell Religion what to do, but rather Religion should tell Gov what to do). Also, again, the Preamble of the DoI, the 2nd Amendment being a means for the People to do this when/if needed, and yet there are those who want to Ban Weapons, Gun Control like crazy, and even those wanting to get rid of the 2A. Basically a means of trying to limit the People's ability to fight back if the Gov ever decides to say the hell with the People, and start stripping People of our Rights even more, and try to force more control over the People.
But most importantly, if you were the Government, how would you want to make sure the People would want to get rid of Weapons???? You would make sure incidents happen, especially in certain areas. Then, when People no longer have means of Defending themselves, or the Country or being able to take it back, then you can do whatever you want to them. Or, by my other Theory, with how it has been established for Trump, if he started siding with Foreign Countries that are Hostile to our ways, then the People would not be able to fight back against them.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2022)

People wholly unbothered by Trump policies hoping he goes to jail for the 4th time.  Don't you want to be like them?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 20, 2022)

So are the walls closing in around dRumpf or is this the beginning of the end? So hard to tell these days. Hopefully, Jack Smith will be more successful than MuellerTime and the p0rn lawyer Avenatti.

I will however, enjoy watching the KLANtifa leftists cry again when things don't go the way they thought they would, again.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 20, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> Here's the thing:
> The US Declaration of Independence, the Preamble, allows for the People to take back the Government for the People in the event the Government no longer represents the People, becomes Authoritarian, Abuses it's Authority, goes against the People, stuff like that, with the 2nd Amendment being a means for the People to do so.


the declaration isn't the constitution. the declaration is not a binding contract, it's political theory. the constitution says you can't overthrow the US gov.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 20, 2022)

tabzer said:


> People wholly unbothered by Trump policies hoping he goes to jail for the 4th time.  Don't you want to be like them?



People wholly unbothered by anything Trump does are not the same ones that want him to go to jail for the 4th time, so which of the two are you asking if one wants to be like? Those unbothered by Trump policies, or the ones wanting him to go to jail?


----------



## Smoker1 (Dec 20, 2022)

omgcat said:


> the declaration isn't the constitution. the declaration is not a binding contract, it's political theory. the constitution says you can't overthrow the US gov.





> *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.*


----------



## omgcat (Dec 20, 2022)

still not a legally binding contract. go read the bill of rights and all of the articles of the constitution and show me where it is legal to foment an insurrection or commit sedition. remember, we have a LEGAL system, not a JUSTICE system.

the declaration of independence was basically "fuck you Britain we are making our own country", and the constitution is "here is our new countries government and base laws".


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> People wholly unbothered by anything Trump does are not the same ones that want him to go to jail for the 4th time, so which of the two are you asking if one wants to be like? Those unbothered by Trump policies, or the ones wanting him to go to jail?



Show us where Trump hurt you?


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Show us where Trump hurt you?



So you can't even answer your own question that made no sense in the first place. Just some stupid deflection that makes even less sense. Seems like I hurt you.


----------



## Smoker1 (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Show us where Trump hurt you?


Not sure why you support Trump so much. Bet you believe that Trump had every "Right" to grab the Classified Documents, right? Saying he could Declassify whatever he wanted, even without a Process to do so? Another Country's Defensive abilities, Classified Information on another Country's Citizen? This is not a Dictatorship. 
By the way, I could care less about Trump or Biden, so dont start on that crap. This Country is supposed to be our "Leaders" representing The People, not themselves and their own Interests.

Speaking of which, @omgcat - So you are saying the Idiots in Office, and our own Government can just strip our Rights when they want, and say to hell with the People, and we should just bend over and take it? I dont think so. The Declaration lays the foundation, so that, not only for us, but if ANYONE in another Country, not just our own, comes to the realization that the Government is Abusive, overreaching their Authority, going against the People, then The People have the Right, and should have the means to take back their Government, so they can be better Represented, and make the Country work for them, as it should.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 21, 2022)

Jayro said:


> even more so now.



so they are advanced closing in? is this where they will actually have something that the Clintons didnt make up?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> So you can't even answer your own question that made no sense in the first place. Just some stupid deflection that makes even less sense. Seems like I hurt you.



It was rhetorical and makes sense.



Smoker1 said:


> Not sure why you support Trump so much.



It's not in support of Trump that I am so irreverent of the same chorus that has occupied the news space for nearly a decade, without any positive movement.

It leaves me curious how individuals, here, have been personally affected by Trump.*


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 21, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> Not sure why you support Trump so much. Bet you believe that Trump had every "Right" to grab the Classified Documents, right? Saying he could Declassify whatever he wanted, even without a Process to do so? Another Country's Defensive abilities, Classified Information on another Country's Citizen? This is not a Dictatorship.


Every other president was allowed to take classified documents. Why is Trump different? Can you show where in the law it says that the president is not the ultimate declass authority.

Keeping documents classified creates a dictatorship. The less we know about our government, the more dictatorial it becomes. Trump was declassing documents during his entire term and the DOJ fought him every inch of the way. How does any government agency have authority over the president if all executive branch employees serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired by him for any reason?


Smoker1 said:


> By the way, I could care less about Trump or Biden, so dont start on that crap. This Country is supposed to be our "Leaders" representing The People, not themselves and their own Interests.
> 
> Speaking of which, @omgcat - So you are saying the Idiots in Office, and our own Government can just strip our Rights when they want, and say to hell with the People, and we should just bend over and take it? I dont think so. The Declaration lays the foundation, so that, not only for us, but if ANYONE in another Country, not just our own, comes to the realization that the Government is Abusive, overreaching their Authority, going against the People, then The People have the Right, and should have the means to take back their Government, so they can be better Represented, and make the Country work for them, as it should.


The left don't even understand the oath that every government employee, military and law enforcement take. To defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Last I checked, the government qualifies as a domestic entity that is constantly attacking the Constitution. Just look at the DHS/FBI actually paying Twitter to censor people's voices and attacking their 1st Amendment rights.

Leftists, please pay attention to the following: 

*The oath does not say to defend the US government or a state government. It states to defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. If private companies can not infringe on our Constitutional rights, guess who that leaves? Federal and state governments. With many quotes from multiple Founders who wrote the Constitution say that it is our civic duty to keep our governments in check, it is obviously clear what is expected of the citizenry.*


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It was rhetorical and makes sense.



Not even a good attempt at lying.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The oath does not say to defend the US government or a state government. It states to defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic


Newsflash: Trumpo and his capitol 6 followers are domestic enemies.


TraderPatTX said:


> Keeping documents classified creates a dictatorship.


Hot WOKE take!


TraderPatTX said:


> Every other president was allowed to take classified documents. Why is Trump different? Can you show where in the law it says that the president is not the ultimate declass authority


Can you show in the law where it says the president IS the ultimate declass authority?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Every other president was allowed to take classified documents. Why is Trump different? Can you show where in the law it says that the president is not the ultimate declass authority.


sure

In 1978, Congress passed the *Presidential Records Act (PRA)*, which states that *any records **created or received by the Presiden*t as part of his constitutional, statutory, or ceremonial duties *are the property of the United States government and will be managed by NARA at the end of the administration.*

so OBAMA  can have 20,000,00 documents..a Truck load heck STADIUM full. as longs as
1. NARA reviewed/categorize/approve the Docs
2. NARA MANAGES the DOC.

and Im pretty sure OBAMA didn't  have spy/Nuclear secrets stashed in the Pool closet on a 2 bit resort.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Not even a good attempt at lying.


I know that the rhetoric makes you uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean I am lying.  If you could answer the question, that'd be progressive.





djpannda said:


> sure
> 
> In 1978, Congress passed the *Presidential Records Act (PRA)*, which states that *any records **created or received by the Presiden*t as part of his constitutional, statutory, or ceremonial duties *are the property of the United States government and will be managed by NARA at the end of the administration.*
> 
> ...


More fucking colors doesn't make you more validated.  It makes you look desperate.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Newsflash: Trumpo and his capitol 6 followers are domestic enemies.


Show where Trumpo and his capitol 6 followers infringed on anybody's constitutional rights.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Hot WOKE take!


It ain't wrong though. Communist and fascist governments are required to be secretive to hide their crimes against humanity. You're just mad that it's Trumpo who was declassing documents to expose our governments crimes against humanity.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Can you show in the law where it says the president IS the ultimate declass authority?


Department of the Navy v Egan. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this. It has been discussed on this site before. I'm not gonna rehash what we've already talked about exhaustively, especially to a known troll.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I know that the rhetoric makes you uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean I am lying.  If you could answer the question, that'd be progressive.



You're just too incredibly unintelligent for my own liking. You don't even try and I don't think you even actually believe the things you say. Ignored, so I don't have to see such blatant and purposeful stupidity any longer.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I know that the rhetoric makes you uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean I am lying.  If you could answer the question, that'd be progressive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



... oh my apologies. its just most of you tend not to READ laws... so having it Color Coded might   force poeple to read it.. ..well I mean for the ones that actually CAN read.
  but hey Orangey/yellow doesn't nullifies your embarrassing pivot


----------



## Jayro (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It was rhetorical and makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He purposely made lives harder for Americans, just because he likes to be a dick. What's not to get? Do you want us to provide you with an itemized grocery list, or are you adept with using Google on your own?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> sure
> 
> In 1978, Congress passed the *Presidential Records Act (PRA)*, which states that *any records **created or received by the Presiden*t as part of his constitutional, statutory, or ceremonial duties *are the property of the United States government and will be managed by NARA at the end of the administration.*
> 
> ...


Where have you been? You been off in a corner crying that Lauren Boebert won her re-election after you bragged that she had lost?

Show where Trump had spy/nuclear secrets stashed in the pool closet.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ... oh my apologies. its just most of you tend not to READ laws... so having it Color Coded might   force poeple to read it.. ..well I mean for the ones that actually CAN read.
> but hey Orangey/yellow doesn't nullifies your embarrassing pivot



If you would only put that energy into speaking English.



Jayro said:


> He purposely made lives harder for Americans, just because he likes to be a dick. What's not to get? Do you want us to provide you with an itemized grocery list, or are you adept with using Google on your own?


My experience with Trump being president was better than Obama.  Traveling between the US and Japan was very smooth.  Obama made you pay for hypochondriacs.

Yes, I am asking for an example of how your life became more difficult under Trump.  Google can't do that for me.  It's no better than Twitter; funded by the FBI (and you) apparently.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Every other president was allowed to take classified documents. Why is Trump different? Can you show where in the law it says that the president is not the ultimate declass authority.





TraderPatTX said:


> Where have you been? You been off in a corner crying that Lauren Boebert won her re-election after you bragged that she had lost?
> 
> Show where Trump had spy/nuclear secrets stashed in the pool closet


way to pivot..the fact I just answered your embarrassing question 
1978 Presidential Records Act (PRA)


----------



## omgcat (Dec 21, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> Speaking of which, @omgcat - So you are saying the Idiots in Office, and our own Government can just strip our Rights when they want, and say to hell with the People, and we should just bend over and take it?


i mean, they already are with the attacks on abortion rights and gay marriage/LGBT people. would you be ok if we stripped down the government and replaced it so women have equal medical rights (what medical procedure are men legally not allowed to get?),  and we establish freedom OF AND FROM religion?

i'm totally sure your ideal align with everyone and your thoughts of ripping appart the current government will give people back the right to abortion and bodily autonomy and freedom from religious crazies right?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you would only put that energy into speaking English.


lol cool Xenopbobic joke..
seeing how you imply your not Originally American. I can see your urge to fit in with the Cool NAZIs


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> You're just too incredibly unintelligent for my own liking. You don't even try and I don't think you even actually believe the things you say. Ignored, so I don't have to see such blatant and purposeful stupidity any longer.



Have fun pounding sand (with your face) and pretending your opinion is the only one that exists. 



djpannda said:


> lol cool Xenopbobic joke..
> seeing how you imply your not Originally American. I can see your urge to fit in with the Cool NAZIs


It's not xenophobic to acknowledge that you are horrible at using English.  Doesn't take a Nazi to say so, idiot.

Not American, must be a Nazi.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not xenophobic to acknowledge that you are horrible at using English.  Doesn't take a Nazi to say so, idiot.
> 
> Not American, must be a Nazi.


lol yet it was less then two years ago, that YOU SO defensive about not understanding American colloquialisms, as the Thread took its time to explain and not chastise you.
but sure.. ME ENGLISH BAD.= ME POINT INVALID
 ...please go on==



=


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> way to pivot..the fact I just answered your embarrassing question
> 1978 Presidential Records Act (PRA)


And you do know the Supreme Court decision came in 1988, which is 10 years after 1978. They literally based their decision partly on the Presidential Records Act.

I bet you can't even point to the place in the PRA that says the president can't declass.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> And you do know the Supreme Court decision came in 1988, which is 10 years after 1978. They literally based their decision partly on the Presidential Records Act.
> 
> I bet you can't even point to the place in the PRA that says the president can't declass.


He can "declassify" anything he wants.... the law he broke is not "declassify" mostly because  he didn'....t as he did not go thru the Correct channels 

Heck he was even laughed in court when they hinted he declassified 
"“Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents,” a three-judge panel that included two Trump appointees ruled for the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals."


its  the Ownership and Mantaining statues 

as per 44 USC ( last revised 2016)​§2202. Ownership of Presidential records​The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§2203. Management and custody of Presidential records​ec. 4. _Claim of Executive Privilege by Former President_. (t shall consult with the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel), the Counsel to the President, and such other executive agencies as the Archivist deems appropriate concerning the Archivist's determination as to whether to honor the former President's claim of privilege or instead to disclose the Presidential records notwithstanding the claim of privilege
Transfer control of custody of presidential records from the president to the archivist, who must deposit the records in an archive​and ​§2204.FOIA​


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> He can "declassify" anything he wants.... the law he broke is not "declassify" mostly because  he didn'....t as he did not go thru the Correct channels
> 
> Heck he was even laughed in court when they hinted he declassified
> "“Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents,” a three-judge panel that included two Trump appointees ruled for the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals."
> ...


Well thank goodness you haven't spent all this time arguing that a president can't declass. I'm glad that's all cleared up now.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Well thank goodness you haven't spent all this time arguing that a president can't declass. I'm glad that's all cleared up now.


again.
1. he does not have a magic wand to declassify for Spy/nuclear secrets it needs to go thru the proper dept. and even if it was mundane stuff there is a always paper trail..
2. Mishandling/ stealing documents (declassified or not) is illegal. They are not his property but the property of the USofA

lol can't wait for you guys to start claiming "Trump has Complete PARDON power to pardon himself and that he did not have to write it down, he just  did the sign of the Cross and stated YOU ARE FORGIVEN in a mirror " in 6 months


----------



## Smoker1 (Dec 21, 2022)

omgcat said:


> i mean, they already are with the attacks on abortion rights and gay marriage/LGBT people. would you be ok if we stripped down the government and replaced it so women have equal medical rights (what medical procedure are men legally not allowed to get?),  and we establish freedom OF AND FROM religion?
> 
> i'm totally sure your ideal align with everyone and your thoughts of ripping appart the current government will give people back the right to abortion and bodily autonomy and freedom from religious crazies right?


Well, that Anti-Abortion crap Violates the 1st Amendment. Pretty sure....


> *Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise*


....means that you can not Establish a Nationwide Religion, nor can you make any Laws based on Religious Views or Beliefs. Not to mention, that whole thing of, "Life begins at Conception", would go against the Jewish Faith, as they see Life starting once you are Born. So yeah, seems like Republicans want to force one specific Religion on People, just like certain others claiming, "This is a Christian Nation!!!" Yeah??? Please show where it says that, and what about the 1st Amendment??????


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Show where Trumpo and his capitol 6 followers infringed on anybody's constitutional rights.


Denying the election results is an attack on democracy and thus, an attack on everybody's constitutional rights.

Plenty of others have just embarrassed you with your ridiculous "der president can do what he wants to docs" claims, so as a reminder..

https://www.americanbar.org/news/ab...es/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/

Key concept; formal procedure required and completed.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 21, 2022)

Jayro said:


> He purposely made lives harder for Americans, just because he likes to be a dick. What's not to get? Do you want us to provide you with an itemized grocery list, or are you adept with using Google on your own?



yes, actually? can you name a single thing that trump did that objectively made your life worse? i know one of your guys attacked the speakers husband with a hammer, not exactly a shining moment, but we dont talk about that anymore.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 21, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> yes, actually? can you name a single thing that trump did that objectively made your life worse? i know one of your guys attacked the speakers husband with a hammer, not exactly a shining moment, but we dont talk about that anymore.


Not our guy, your guy. We have no need to attack our own.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Can you show in the law where it says the president IS the ultimate declass authority?


A sitting president has a constitutional grant to classify and declassify any documents, particularly ones concerning national security. Those powers are vested upon the president by the virtue of being commander-in-chief. This power exists outside of any congressional grant and the only exceptions from the rule are those imposed by separation of powers, as per Navy v. Egan.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...resident-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/

There is an on-going EO which formalises the procedure and offers guidance, but as chief executive the sitting president can override any prior executive order, or amend existing ones. As it stands, unless the document happens to fulfil the requirements of an exception, the president can in fact declassify anything without any process and without guidance or approval. If a president says a document is declassified, 99 times out of a 100 it is the moment they said so.

That’s not in question here - the big caveat is whether Trump did declassify them or not - his claim is that he had a “standing order”, which is the part that’s being questioned. He can’t just say that a document is “declassified” because he got caught with it, that’s not how it works. While he can “declassify” documents with, quite literally, a thought, he’d have to do it *while he was a sitting president*. Since there’s no paper trail here, there’s no evidence to suggest that the documents were declassified. On the flip side, that doesn’t invalidate Trump’s claim either since, again, he is not required to consult anyone - it’s simply prudent to do so in the event that you end up with a couple of boxes of documents that, until that moment, nobody expected you to have.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 21, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> A sitting president has a constitutional grant to classify and declassify any documents, particularly ones concerning national security. Those powers are vested upon the president by the virtue of being commander-in-chief. This power exists outside of any congressional grant and the only exceptions from the rule are those imposed by separation of powers, as per Navy v. Egan.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...resident-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/
> 
> ...


As thr other source I posted says, this power needs to be exercised through a formal and complete process, which didn't happen. If it did, the lawyers would have said so.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 21, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Not our guy, your guy. We have no need to attack our own.



how is he our guy? his wife confirmed he's a liberal much like her.

 See this is the problem with delusion, even when its easily disproven, you still cling to it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> As thr other source I posted says, this power needs to be exercised through a formal and complete process, which didn't happen. If it did, the lawyers would have said so.


It really doesn’t. That’s a suggested route, not a prerequisite. We’re talking about the chief executive here. You are welcome to follow the link provided, and the myriad of sources within.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It really doesn’t. That’s a suggested route, not a prerequisite. We’re talking about the chief executive here.



ahh well there you have it, nothing to be done.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> ahh well there you have it, nothing to be done.


There’s plenty to investigate here, but precious little material to build an indictment around because, again, Trump was chief executive at the time he obtained the documents, so there’s reasonable doubt in regards to whether he intended to declassify the documents or just said that he did. If I recall correctly, some of the documents were concerning nuclear secrets in which case they might fall under an exemption, however I doubt anyone would use that as a “hook”. If anything, the Presidential Records Act is better grounds since he retained paperwork from his office when it was supposed to be archived, but even that is a minor infraction.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> in the event that you end up with a couple of boxes of documents that, until that moment, nobody expected you to have.



Except that's not at all what took place. They didn't just decide out of the blue one day that he might have documents that don't belong to him, then go raid his place later that afternoon.. You're presenting a very much manipulated narrative.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> There’s plenty to investigate here, but precious little material to build an indictment around because, again, Trump was chief executive at the time he obtained the documents, so there’s reasonable doubt in regards to whether he intended to declassify the documents or just said that he did. If I recall correctly, some of the documents were concerning nuclear secrets in which case they might fall under an exemption, however I doubt anyone would use that as a “hook”. If anything, the Presidential Records Act is better grounds since he retained paperwork from his office when it was supposed to be archived, but even that is a minor infraction.



oh you mean those documents that they then revealed never existed? but you didnt hear! someone had a cocktail near one! guilty!


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Except that's not at all what took place. They didn't just decide out of the blue one day that he might have documents that don't belong to him, then go raid his place later that afternoon.. You're presenting a very much manipulated narrative.


What’s manipulated about it? The documents were confiscated because they were part of the Presidential record, they were supposed to be transported to the national archive as per the act. What’s your issue, exactly? They knew he had the documents, if that’s what you’re on about - he probably signed off a release. The point that flew over your head is that nobody expected him to retain them.


lolcatzuru said:


> oh you mean those documents that they then revealed never existed? but you didnt hear! someone had a cocktail near one! guilty!


I don’t know what point you’re making either - he did retain some documents, and those documents were removed. As far as classification authority is concerned, I quote:


> *The President*, after all, is the "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States." U.S. Const., Art. II, 2. *His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security* and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information *flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President* and *exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant*. See Cafeteria Workers v. McElroy, 367 U.S. 886, 890 (1961). This Court has recognized the Government's *"compelling interest"* in withholding national security information from unauthorized persons in the course of executive business. Snepp v. United States, 444 U.S. 507, 509 , n. 3 (1980). See also United States v. Robel, 389 U.S. 258, 267 (1967); United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1, 10 (1953); Totten v. United States, 92 U.S. 105, 106 (1876). *The authority to protect such information falls on the President as head of the Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief*.


Tl;dr this is well-within the President’s competence, and while Congress has a vested interest, ultimately they can only inquire, rather than limit the power vested in the President unless other limiting circumstances already exist.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> What’s manipulated about it? The documents were confiscated because they were part of the Presidential record, they were supposed to be transported to the national archive as per the act. What’s your issue, exactly? They knew he had the documents, if that’s what you’re on about - he probably signed off a release. The point that flew over your head is that nobody expected him to retain them.
> 
> I don’t know what point you’re making either - he did retain some documents, and those documents were removed. As far as classification authority is concerned, I quote:
> 
> Tl;dr this is well-within the President’s competence, and while Congress has a vested interest, ultimately they can only inquire, rather than limit the power vested in the President unless other limiting circumstances already exist.



i mean the nuclear docs that were gonna do him in, that it turned out he didnt have


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i mean the nuclear docs that were gonna do him in, that it turned out he didnt have


I don’t really follow this story that closely because there’s nothing to follow - we’ve known from day 1 that the president had effectively absolute classification authority. There was no point (and there isn’t any point) in keeping tabs on it as it’s a non-story. If the nuclear documents *weren’t* among the ones found then that’s news to me and it makes the whole matter even more irrelevant, turning it into a minor infraction that was quickly corrected.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Denying the election results is an attack on democracy and thus, an attack on everybody's constitutional rights.


Democrats been denying election results for decades. So what?


Dark_Ansem said:


> Plenty of others have just embarrassed you with your ridiculous "der president can do what he wants to docs" claims, so as a reminder..
> 
> https://www.americanbar.org/news/ab...es/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/
> 
> Key concept; formal procedure required and completed.


Guess they should go after all the ex-presidents too. They didn't then. That's called setting precedent. But the left is scared of Trumpo and are trying to do anything to keep him out of office. It won't work, but it's fun watching them try and fail every step of the way.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Guess they should go after all the ex-presidents too. They didn't then. That's called setting precedent. But the left is scared of Trumpo and are trying to do anything to keep him out of office. It won't work, but it's fun watching them try and fail every step of the way.





> As the new ABA Legal Fact Check notes, the extent of a president’s legal authority to unilaterally declassify materials — without following formal procedures — has yet to be challenged in court.


Literally from the article linked. The chief executive stands above the process so long as there is no ruling that says otherwise. No legal authority in the land sits higher than the SCOTUS, and the SCOTUS maintains that the office of the presidency holds near-absolute and unilateral power to declassify.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2022)

djpannda said:


> lol yet it was less then two years ago, that YOU SO defensive about not understanding American colloquialisms, as the Thread took its time to explain and not chastise you.
> but sure.. ME ENGLISH BAD.= ME POINT INVALID
> ...please go on==



What are you saying?  Please take a similar amount of effort that you make in color-coding and bolding your posts into proof-reading what you post.  It reads like gibberish.  You might have a point that you want to make, but the failure is in the delivery.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What are you saying?  Please take a similar amount of effort that you make in color-coding and bolding your posts into proof-reading what you post.  It reads like gibberish.  You might have a point that you want to make, but the failure is in the delivery.


Cool Story.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 22, 2022)

djpannda said:


> lol cool Xenopbobic joke..


How the hell is it Xenophobic? please explain.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> How the hell is it Xenophobic? please explain.


"the xenophobic undertones to downplay or dismiss an argument"


----------



## mrdude (Dec 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> How the hell is it Xenophobic? please explain.


It's not, lefties call everyone Nazi's and Xenophobic that they disagree with, it's the only words they know and they don't even know the proper meaning of those. It's pointless to argue with them as well as their tiny brains can't comprehend what you're saying if you use more than 3 words in a sentence.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2022)

djpannda said:


> "the xenophobic undertones to downplay or dismiss an argument"


example


mrdude said:


> It's not, lefties call everyone Nazi's and Xenophobic that they disagree with, it's the only words they know and they don't even know the proper meaning of those. It's pointless to argue with them as well as their tiny brains can't comprehend what you're saying if you use more than 3 words in a sentence.


----------



## titan_tim (Dec 22, 2022)

While it's very interesting to keep up to date with the ongoing and constant barrage of information about this whole cluster f---, in the end all we can do is sit back, and enjoy the ride until the conclusion. The Jan 6th committee has passed on their evidence and thousands of testimonies to the DOJ, and now all we can do is see if the DOJ and the special council follows through with where the evidence points.

Everyone's online opinions on the matter are of zero weight, as we're not constitutional lawyers, and are more than likely horribly biased. 

I personally hope that there's a huge arrest before Christmas, to make my family gathering all the more joyous. But I'm one of those aforementioned biased people who want people held accountable for crimes. If you want to come out and say "But but but Hunter!!!", then I'll agree with that too. If there's a smoking gun, then prosecute. But the worst thing they currently have after YEARS of going through that laptop is Hunter dong pics.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 22, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> While it's very interesting to keep up to date with the ongoing and constant barrage of information about this whole cluster f---, in the end all we can do is sit back, and enjoy the ride until the conclusion. The Jan 6th committee has passed on their evidence and thousands of testimonies to the DOJ, and now all we can do is see if the DOJ and the special council follows through with where the evidence points.
> 
> Everyone's online opinions on the matter are of zero weight, as we're not constitutional lawyers, and are more than likely horribly biased.
> 
> I personally hope that there's a huge arrest before Christmas, to make my family gathering all the more joyous. But I'm one of those aforementioned biased people who want people held accountable for crimes. If you want to come out and say "But but but Hunter!!!", then I'll agree with that too. If there's a smoking gun, then prosecute. But the worst thing they currently have after YEARS of going through that laptop is Hunter dong pics.


If you think the worst to come from the laptop are dick pics, then you are not paying attention. There are emails and text messages which have been released that paint a dire picture of pay to play schemes while Biden was Vice President. Tony Bobulinski verified that he is the recipient of many of those emails.


----------



## titan_tim (Dec 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> If you think the worst to come from the laptop are dick pics, then you are not paying attention. There are emails and text messages which have been released that paint a dire picture of pay to play schemes while Biden was Vice President. Tony Bobulinski verified that he is the recipient of many of those emails.


I'll be the first to admit, a lot of smoke, but no smoking gun.  Find the gun, and I'll be with ya. 

Same thing happened with the emails between Trump Jr. Remember that one? 
“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump.” 
- Goldstone
“If it’s what you say, I love it, especially later in the summer.” - Trump Jr

Once again, LOTS of smoke, but no final resolution.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Dec 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I don’t really follow this story that closely because there’s nothing to follow - we’ve known from day 1 that the president had effectively absolute classification authority. There was no point (and there isn’t any point) in keeping tabs on it as it’s a non-story. If the nuclear documents *weren’t* among the ones found then that’s news to me and it makes the whole matter even more irrelevant, turning it into a minor infraction that was quickly corrected.



that's surprisingly reasonable, and i appreciate that opinion.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 22, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Except that's not at all what took place. They didn't just decide out of the blue one day that he might have documents that don't belong to him, then go raid his place later that afternoon.. You're presenting a very much manipulated narrative.


As usual lol

	Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022



TraderPatTX said:


> Democrats been denying election results for decades. So what?


In your own little world perhaps

	Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022



Foxi4 said:


> It really doesn’t. That’s a suggested route, not a prerequisite. We’re talking about the chief executive here. You are welcome to follow the link provided, and the myriad of sources within.


I provided my own, just as authoritative if not more than yours.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I provided my own, just as authoritative if not more than yours.


More than… the SCOTUS? Uhm… alright - nothing to discuss here then.


Dark_Ansem said:


> In your own little world perhaps


Stacey Abrams denied losing her Georgia election and dodged questions regarding her lack of concession for years.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 22, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> I'll be the first to admit, a lot of smoke, but no smoking gun.  Find the gun, and I'll be with ya.
> 
> Same thing happened with the emails between Trump Jr. Remember that one?
> “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump.”
> ...


Normally I would say that the FBI would handle this, but they seem to be preoccupied going after grandma and her memes on social media instead of actual illegal activity. It's not like they don't have a history of hiding laptops. We still haven't seen Anthony Wiener's laptop and they are actively trying to hide Seth Rich's laptop even after a judge told them to hand it over. Not to mention all of the video evidence they gathered from Jeffrey Epstein's estates in NYC, New Mexico and Pedo Island and the little black book that still have not seen the light of day.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022



Dark_Ansem said:


> As usual lol
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 22, 2022
> 
> ...


You really don't know how to use the internet do you? I found this in under 5 seconds.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You really don't know how to use the internet do you? I found this in under 5 seconds.




LOL! Twelve whopping minutes compared to a countless number of hours of stolen election bullshit from the Republicunts. Half of the shit is completely out of context and they also didn't start an insurrection at the Capitol over some brief comments. They also simply didn't go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on on and on for two years with the same "Stolen!!!!" bullshit involving a single candidate. I've never heard a single Democrat ever say that Trump wasn't actually the President when he won either. Maybe on tv or the internet. But in the real world I never came across anyone who denied he was President. Here we are, 2 years, people will still 100% insist that Biden is not actually the President even though there is zero amount of credible evidence to show there was enough voter fraud to overturn. Yeah, there were over 7 million fraudulent votes, which just so happened to ALL be in favor of Trump. There's a difference between making passing claims/opinions after an election & running with one single lie for 2 years straight. Had Republicans said Trump really won and then just moved on and accepted the facts, a lot of this shit wouldn't even be happening. It's glaringly obvious that your video and what the Trumplicans are doing have significant differences.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 22, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> LOL! Twelve whopping minutes compared to a countless number of hours of stolen election bullshit from the Republicunts. Half of the shit is completely out of context and they also didn't start an insurrection at the Capitol over some brief comments. They also simply didn't go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on on and on for two years with the same "Stolen!!!!" bullshit involving a single candidate. I've never heard a single Democrat ever say that Trump wasn't actually the President when he won either. Maybe on tv or the internet. But in the real world I never came across anyone who denied he was President. Here we are, 2 years, people will still 100% insist that Biden is not actually the President even though there is zero amount of credible evidence to show there was enough voter fraud to overturn. Yeah, there were over 7 million fraudulent votes, which just so happened to ALL be in favor of Trump. There's a difference between making passing claims/opinions after an election & running with one single lie for 2 years straight. Had Republicans said Trump really won and then just moved on and accepted the facts, a lot of this shit wouldn't even be happening. It's glaringly obvious that your video and what the Trumplicans are doing have significant differences.


The argument wasn't the number of minutes, but that Democrats have never denied election results. The video proves that Democrats have indeed threatened our democracy and denied election results. You moving the goalposts does not change that.

I can say that nobody on the right has ever bombed the Capitol. 

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-black-lives-matter-leader-bomb-us-capitol-1983-1568372


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The argument wasn't the number of minutes, but that Democrats have never denied election results. The video proves that Democrats have indeed threatened our democracy and denied election results. You moving the goalposts does not change that.
> 
> I can say that nobody on the right has ever bombed the Capitol.
> 
> https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-black-lives-matter-leader-bomb-us-capitol-1983-1568372



I never said it was about the minutes and I never moved the goalposts. Wtf are you on? You're just making shit up out of thin air now. If you want to talk about moving goals perhaps you shouldn't have posted the bombing story, as I never debated anything of the sort. I mean, what a stupid fucking comparison anyway. It's about as brilliant as "I didn't punch you, I hit you." I mean, ya''ll wanted to murder Pelosi and Pence. Others actually did die as a result of the events on Jan 6th. But hey, all's well. All of that doesn't matter, cuz, you know, at least ya didn't bomb it. Right? I mean. What in the fuck goes through your head to post such flat on stupidity?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 22, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> I never said it was about the minutes and I never moved the goalposts. Wtf are you on? You're just making shit up out of thin air now. If you want to talk about moving goals perhaps you shouldn't have posted the bombing story, as I never debated anything of the sort. I mean, what a retard fucking comparison anyway. It's about as brilliant as "I didn't punch you, I hit you." I mean, ya''ll wanted to murder Pelosi and Pence. Others actually did die as a result of the events on Jan 6th. But hey, all's well. All of that doesn't matter, cuz, you know, at least ya didn't bomb it. Right? I mean. What in the fuck goes through your head to post such flat on retard?


*LOL! Twelve whopping minutes compared to a countless number of hours of stolen election bullshit from the Republicunts.*

Maybe if you would read what you write instead of trying to insult people like it's 2016, you wouldn't be so mad and dumb.

The only people who died on Jan 6 were Ashli Babbit and Rosanne Boyland. One was shot inside and one was mercilessly beaten outside.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Stacey Abrams denied losing her Georgia election and dodged questions regarding her lack of concession for years.


Didn't incite an insurrection about it tho yeah? Conceding isn't a duty in any way.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Didn't incite an insurrection about it tho yeah? Conceding isn't a duty in any way.


There were the Summer of Love riots that killed over 50 people, including police officers. They weren't caused by her, but she definitely supported all of the death and destruction.


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## Dark_Ansem (Dec 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> There were the Summer of Love riots that killed over 50 people, including police officers. They weren't caused by her, but she definitely supported all of the death and destruction.


Lol if you have some evidence that would be nice.

Oh and FYI: your terrorist pals who assaulted the capitol are definitely your right wing Republican pals. And the police behaved like a total coward. So if you expect me to cry for the terrorist Babbit, think again.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2022)

People pushing the Trump caused a riot narrative are allergic to self-responsibility.  Certainly, they live with their parents--because it's their fault they were born.  They want to believe that people are mindless tools, that do whatever the tv says, because it makes them feel better in not having control in their own lives.  Maybe addicts and junkies based on how that other thread went.


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## Xzi (Dec 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> They want to believe that people are mindless tools, that do whatever the tv says


People, no.  MAGAts, yes.  Trump told them to eat horse paste to prevent COVID, and some of the morons actually fucking did.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> People, no.  MAGAts, yes.  Trump told them to eat horse paste to prevent COVID, and some of the morons actually fucking did.



Zero self-awareness.  Thanks for the demonstration.


----------



## titan_tim (Dec 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Normally I would say that the FBI would handle this, but they seem to be preoccupied going after grandma and her memes on social media instead of actual illegal activity. It's not like they don't have a history of hiding laptops. We still haven't seen Anthony Wiener's laptop and they are actively trying to hide Seth Rich's laptop even after a judge told them to hand it over. Not to mention all of the video evidence they gathered from Jeffrey Epstein's estates in NYC, New Mexico and Pedo Island and the little black book that still have not seen the light of day.


Grandma's posting memes? Are you referring to that garbage article on fox talking about the FBI twitter account publicly telling Twitter that some people were violating twitter TOS?  Clutch your pearls everyone!
Joahnathan1wade, fromMA, madandpissedoff, mault_thomas? Those "grandmas"? Out of those four it seems that fromMA is still active on twitter, and is quite liberal. Guess the FBI is bipartisan for who they report.

For Weiner, I'm guessing you're talking about the *HILLARY EMAILS* and not him getting fired for those idiot pics. God that was creepy, but at least he lost his job and wife. The *HILLARY EMAILS* I could give two rats asses about. The last two secretary of states before her had their personal emails (Powell and Rice). The right has just decided to blow THIS one out of proportion. 

Seth Rich, no clue as to what they've found if they've found anything. Could be a mugging gone wrong, could be something more insidious. 

For Epstein, I hope they're building up cases against anyone involved, since rich people are that much harder to pin down. But I'm as pessimistic as you on this one, in that I don't expect much any time soon. Just like the Pandora papers. Remember those? That was so huge for a week!

I will NOT be a tribalist and make excuses for people who obviously break the law. When it comes to Trump, it's open and shut. The evidence is overwhelming. If the right wants to nail the Clintons to the wall, they'll need to do a better job at laying out the facts. Instead, they had her being questioned for hours and she never plead the 5th.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol if you have some evidence that would be nice.
> 
> Oh and FYI: your terrorist pals who assaulted the capitol are definitely your right wing Republican pals. And the police behaved like a total coward. So if you expect me to cry for the terrorist Babbit, think again.


You must be a glutton for punishment. I prove you wrong every time you open your mouth and you are still dumb enough to HaHa all of my posts. It's almost like humiliation is part of the kink, right?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

	Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2022



titan_tim said:


> Grandma's posting memes? Are you referring to that garbage article on fox talking about the FBI twitter account publicly telling Twitter that some people were violating twitter TOS?  Clutch your pearls everyone!
> Joahnathan1wade, fromMA, madandpissedoff, mault_thomas? Those "grandmas"? Out of those four it seems that fromMA is still active on twitter, and is quite liberal. Guess the FBI is bipartisan for who they report.


Actually, there are emails between the FBI and Twitter where the FBI was telling Twitter who to ban and censor. Then they paid Twitter millions of dollars. I mean, if you support fascism, then just say so.


titan_tim said:


> For Weiner, I'm guessing you're talking about the *HILLARY EMAILS* and not him getting fired for those idiot pics. God that was creepy, but at least he lost his job and wife. The *HILLARY EMAILS* I could give two rats asses about. The last two secretary of states before her had their personal emails (Powell and Rice). The right has just decided to blow THIS one out of proportion.


Well, since other people did wrong, everybody afterward can do the same. Good kindergarten logic you got there.


titan_tim said:


> Seth Rich, no clue as to what they've found if they've found anything. Could be a mugging gone wrong, could be something more insidious.


A mugging where nothing was stolen off of him. He still had all of his money and jewelry. Explain why the FBI is fighting tooth and nail to keep his laptops hidden.


titan_tim said:


> For Epstein, I hope they're building up cases against anyone involved, since rich people are that much harder to pin down. But I'm as pessimistic as you on this one, in that I don't expect much any time soon. Just like the Pandora papers. Remember those? That was so huge for a week!
> 
> I will NOT be a tribalist and make excuses for people who obviously break the law. When it comes to Trump, it's open and shut. The evidence is overwhelming. If the right wants to nail the Clintons to the wall, they'll need to do a better job at laying out the facts. Instead, they had her being questioned for hours and she never plead the 5th.


So for Trump, it's an open and shut case even though he's still playing golf any time he pleases, but when it comes to the Cllintons, it better be an airtight case. Yeah, you're not a tribalist at all, lol.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Didn't incite an insurrection about it tho yeah? Conceding isn't a duty in any way.


We weren’t talking about inciting insurrections, you’re changing the subject. You made a claim that Democrats don’t deny election results. I gave you a specific example of a Democrat denying election results, for years on end. In Abrams’ case her party colleagues were supporting her claims along the way, too. It led to a protracted 4-year legal battle. Abrams  started a “non-profit” called Fair Fight, aiming to change the election laws in her state since losing to Kemp hurt her fee-fees. I’m not even joking, she spent nearly half of a decade denying that she lost.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna50287

I’m using inverted commas for “non-profit” since the objective here is to change the law so that she (and her ilk) would have a better chance of winning, so it’s entirely for her personal, and more broadly, the party’s benefit.

So, without moving goal posts this time, Democrats do deny election results when it suits them - this is just one example.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You must be a glutton for punishment. I prove you wrong every time you open your mouth and you are still dumb enough to HaHa all of my posts. It's almost like humiliation is part of the kink, right?


You proved nothing except further embarassment of yourself, and this link is no exception  If anything, it digs your hole even deeper. I assume your kink is further humiliation and ridicule, but no surprise there.


Foxi4 said:


> e weren’t talking about inciting insurrections, you’re changing the subject.


No, I'm being quite direct with the subject, but thank you for providing a stray case which if anything proves the point: 

"The lawsuit was filed in November 2018, just weeks after Abrams narrowly lost the governor’s race to Republican Brian Kemp. Throughout that contest, Abrams had accused Kemp, then secretary of state, of using his position as the state’s top elections official to promote voter suppression"

So rather than denying election results, she claimed something different, namely, the legality of election rules. It's a subtle, if substantial, difference. The end result may be the same, but she didn't go the Trump way about it, and more importantly, her claim wasn't baseless

https://apnews.com/article/race-and...ghts-atlanta-fb011f39af3b40518b572c8cce6e906c

unlike the claims made by Trump and his cabal.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> You proved nothing except further embarassment of yourself, and this link is no exception  If anything, it digs your hole even deeper. I assume your kink is further humiliation and ridicule, but no surprise there.
> 
> No, I'm being quite direct with the subject, but thank you for providing a stray case which if anything proves the point:
> 
> ...


Abrams explicitly claimed that the election was “stolen from her” and refused to concede for 4 years, take the L instead of doubling down on a lost cause, it’s a bad look. She literally made the exact same claim Trump made, since you’re so hellbent on bringing him up for no reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ss-rhetorical-twist-being-an-election-denier/

She straight up said that “[she] won” and she’s “comfortable saying that” during a NYT interview *in 2019*, many months after the fact, she said the same thing during the National Action Network Convention the same year, so there’s no ambiguity here - she repeatedly claimed to be the winner.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/28/magazine/stacey-abrams-election-georgia.html

If you want to argue about what Stacey Abrams said with Stacey Abrams then knock yourself out, I’ll pass.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> You proved nothing except further embarassment of yourself, and this link is no exception  If anything, it digs your hole even deeper. I assume your kink is further humiliation and ridicule, but no surprise there.


You claimed the Dems have never denied election results. I provided video evidence to the contrary.

You requested evidence that 50 people were murdered during the BLM riots. I provided evidence proving my statement.

You are smoking crack if you believe I have not proved anything. In fact, you can't even provide any evidence refuting me at all. You just hurl insults and claim that you won some kind of moral victory. It's no wonder the left is panicking so much lately. You make your lies so easily dismissible with a 5 second internet search, that they don't have time for people to even start believing in them. Hell, I have doubts you believe the Russian disinformation you spew on this site on a daily basis.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You requested evidence that 50 people were murdered during the BLM riots. I provided evidence proving my statement.


I don't recall ever mentioning BLM so again you're making stuff up.



Foxi4 said:


> Abrams explicitly claimed that the election was “stolen from her” and refused to concede for 4 years, take the L instead of doubling down on a lost cause, it’s a bad look. She literally made the exact same claim Trump made, since you’re so hellbent on bringing him up for no reason.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ss-rhetorical-twist-being-an-election-denier/
> 
> ...


Your usual lack of acumen is unsurprisingly and not at all relevant to what I said or posted or even to what you posted, since the judgment obviously went on for years.




TraderPatTX said:


> You are smoking crack if you believe I have not proved anything. In fact, you can't even provide any evidence refuting me at all. You just hurl insults and claim that you won some kind of moral victory. It's no wonder the left is panicking so much lately. You make your lies so easily dismissible with a 5 second internet search, that they don't have time for people to even start believing in them. Hell, I have doubts you believe the Russian disinformation you spew on this site on a daily basis.


Russian disinformation? Lmao you're the one on drugs, the only ones sharing Russian propaganda and usual nonsense it's you lot far-right cucks. And as I said you proved nothing except your penchant for public embarrassment and displaying functional illiteracy.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2022



Foxi4 said:


> Abrams explicitly claimed that the election was “stolen from her” and refused to concede for 4 years, take the L instead of doubling down on a lost cause, it’s a bad look. She literally made the exact same claim Trump made, since you’re so hellbent on bringing him up for no reason.


And as I already said conceding means nothing so...

Literally the same? Did she ask her supporters to Revolt because of a "stolen election"? And she is actively being investigated for it? My my the meaning of "same" is quite extensive.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I don't recall ever mentioning BLM so again you're making stuff up.


I brought up the BLM riots because you supported them and their death tolls.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Russian disinformation? Lmao you're the one on drugs, the only ones sharing Russian propaganda and usual nonsense it's you lot far-right cucks. And as I said you proved nothing except your penchant for public embarrassment and displaying functional illiteracy.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2022


Sharing a video of Democrats denying election results in their own words is now Russian propaganda. You have really gone off the deep end. How much is Putin paying you to spout such obvious lies? Maybe you are an FBI agent trying to censor me. Who knows.


Dark_Ansem said:


> And as I already said conceding means nothing so...
> 
> Literally the same? Did she ask her supporters to Revolt because of a "stolen election"? And she is actively being investigated for it? My my the meaning of "same" is quite extensive.


If you knew how to use the internet, you'd know that not only is Stacy Abrams under investigation, but also Senator Raphael Warnock. I'm sure you'll call this Russian propaganda too, amirite comrade.

https://news.yahoo.com/warnock-under-investigation-role-stacey-164135365.html


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Your usual lack of acumen is unsurprisingly and not at all relevant to what I said or posted or even to what you posted, since the judgment obviously went on for years.


Okay, cool. This is well-documented, so I don’t really care about your opinion on the matter, the interview is *right there* for anyone to see. She claimed that the election was stolen from her and that she actually won. So did Trump. That’s an identical claim. That’s what we were talking about, I’m not interested in anything else.


TraderPatTX said:


> If you knew how to use the internet, you'd know that not only is Stacy Abrams under investigation, but also Senator Raphael Warnock.
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/warnock-under-investigation-role-stacey-164135365.html


Hilarious. It’s almost as if this was international news. For 4 years straight. I’d understand healthy skepticism if the story was memory holed or something, but it isn’t - there’s articles on top of articles about Abrams being a dum-dum and blaming everyone but herself for losing the Georgia elections (twice).


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Russian disinformation? Lmao you're the one on drugs, the only ones sharing Russian propaganda and usual nonsense it's you lot far-right cucks. And as I said you proved nothing except your penchant for public embarrassment and displaying functional illiteracy.



he's in his late 40s to 50s apparently.  use that information to your benefit.  i want to see where you go with this.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 23, 2022)

CommanderCool said:


> he's in his late 40s to 50s apparently.  use that information to your benefit.  i want to see where you go with this.


Oh look who got released out of time out. 

Are you allowed to come out and play again, Skeeter?

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022



Foxi4 said:


> Hilarious. It’s almost as if this was international news. For 4 years straight. I’d understand healthy skepticism if the story was memory holed or something, but it isn’t - there’s articles on top of articles about Abrams being a dum-dum and blaming everyone but herself for losing the Georgia elections (twice).


I used to think it was ignorance or outright stupidity, but that's not what it is. The only thing that can explain what we are seeing here is simple trolling. There was a time when leftists could troll effortlessly. This current crop of trolls wouldn't even qualify as third string. That's how bad they are.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 24, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Okay, cool. This is well-documented, so I don’t really care about your opinion on the matter, the interview is *right there* for anyone to see. She claimed that the election was stolen from her and that she actually won. So did Trump. That’s an identical claim. That’s what we were talking about, I’m not interested in anything else.


Ansem never should've said a Democrat has never cried foul over election results, that's obviously a false claim.  At the same time, you're dancing around some important details and nuance here in order to avoid admitting that there are big differences between the two scenarios: namely that Abrams actually had evidence where Trump had none.  Brian Kemp cancelled 1.3 million voter registrations, and suspended 53,000 of them the same month as the election.  An election that Abrams _just happened _to lose by right around 50k votes.  There's no denying that voter suppression played a big role there, and the fact that what he did was legal almost makes things even worse, not better.

More important than the claim of election/voter fraud itself is the candidate's willingness to let investigations and recounts play out rather than "taking things into their own hands," as Trump tried to accomplish vicariously through his violent mob.  There's no legitimate whataboutism to be drawn on when it comes to January 6th, unless perhaps we harken all the way back to the confederacy, in which case we're talking about more of a 1:1 comparison than any sort of contrast.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 24, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I used to think it was ignorance or outright stupidity, but that's not what it is. The only thing that can explain what we are seeing here is simple trolling. There was a time when leftists could troll effortlessly. This current crop of trolls wouldn't even qualify as third string. That's how bad they are.



you're back-sassing a mod and calling them a leftist troll with little in the way of evidence to prove that, with no evidence as well of them identifying with the left.  you do that a lot, and you should know that a lot of people have zero stake in the culture war that is going on.  did the left rape your family or something?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 24, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ansem never should've said a Democrat has never cried foul over election results, that's obviously a false claim.  At the same time, you're dancing around some important details and nuance here in order to avoid admitting that there are big differences between the two scenarios: namely that Abrams actually had evidence where Trump had none.  Brian Kemp cancelled 1.3 million voter registrations, and suspended 53,000 of them the same month as the election.  An election that Abrams _just happened _to lose by right around 50k votes.  There's no denying that voter suppression played a big role there, and the fact that what he did was legal almost makes things even worse, not better.
> 
> More important than the claim of election/voter fraud itself is the candidate's willingness to let investigations and recounts play out rather than "taking things into their own hands," as Trump tried to accomplish vicariously through his violent mob.  There's no legitimate whataboutism to be drawn on when it comes to January 6th, unless perhaps we harken all the way back to the confederacy, in which case we're talking about more of a 1:1 comparison than any sort of contrast.



But wait, there's more;



Trump wants to fly closer to the sun than the rest.  As far as I am aware, we didn't riot on Jan 6th, so there must be something wrong with the people who did.  

I didn't find Trump's speech to be committed to charging the capitol.  It was spoken, intentionally, to have multiple layers of interpretation, letting people hear what they want to hear.  Of course the media likes to gut out context, and supplement their own, so that doesn't help objectivity.



CommanderCool said:


> you're back-sassing a mod and calling them a leftist troll



Haha, no he isn't.

He's agreeing with him, up to a point.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Haha, no he isn't.
> 
> He's agreeing with him, up to a point.


oh.

still kinda boogeymanning and the like and it's kinda funny to watch especially when you're this up on the clouds

excuse my ass

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022

i love you tabzer promise


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 24, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ansem never should've said a Democrat has never cried foul over election results, that's obviously a false claim.


That’s all this was about. I’m not interested in the rest because Ansem has a terrible tendency to meander through the weeds instead of addressing the actual issue that’s being discussed - he’s like a slippery eel that refuses to be nailed to a point, and I have no interest in chasing him from one bush to the next. The two situations are *obviously* not identical, one was a presidential election and one was a gubernatorial race, they’re wildly different. Our protagonists do have certain things in common though - they claimed their election was stolen, they refused to concede for a long time, they claimed that they actually won regardless of the final tally *and* they both lost their court battles. That was the argument, that’s it.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 24, 2022)

CommanderCool said:


> you're back-sassing a mod and calling them a leftist troll with little in the way of evidence to prove that, with no evidence as well of them identifying with the left.  you do that a lot, and you should know that a lot of people have zero stake in the culture war that is going on.  did the left rape your family or something?


If back-sassing means to show video proof proving him wrong, then yes, I am guilty of back-sassing. If calling him out when he moves the goalposts when I prove him wrong is back-sassing, then yes, I am guilty of the 2nd charge of back-sassing.

I guess since you were put in a corner by a mod, I became quite a prolific back-sasser. It's a good thing you are back from time-out to keep me in check, Skeeter.

If all of you leftists here have zero stake in the culture war, then why do you keep defending the culture war?

And what is wrong with the Shift keys on your keyboard? Are they broken? You type like a child... oh yeah, that's right.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 24, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> If back-sassing means to show video proof proving him wrong, then yes, I am guilty of back-sassing. If calling him out when he moves the goalposts when I prove him wrong is back-sassing, then yes, I am guilty of the 2nd charge of back-sassing.
> 
> I guess since you were put in a corner by a mod, I became quite a prolific back-sasser. It's a good thing you are back from time-out to keep me in check, Skeeter.
> 
> ...



what if i told you...i was never a leftist all along?  and the shift key is a mythological thing made up by the pizza hut that hillary clinton used to sex traffick all of those children?

we got them dead now traderpattx.  we're onto their global conspiracy to feed our kids pronouns in cereal boxes.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 24, 2022)

CommanderCool said:


> what if i told you...i was never a leftist all along?  and the shift key is a mythological thing made up by the pizza hut that hillary clinton used to sex traffick all of those children?
> 
> we got them dead now traderpattx.  we're onto their global conspiracy to feed our kids pronouns in cereal boxes.


It wouldn't matter if you are left or right or center. People can tell by your words that you ain't firing on all cylinders and that you are a mediocre troll.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 24, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> It wouldn't matter if you are left or right or center. People can tell by your words that you ain't firing on all cylinders and that you are a mediocre troll.


i see.  everyone is behind you now, rallied with their tiki torches high in air.  i have to remind myself that i won't replace you ever, traderpattx.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 24, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> he’s like a slippery eel that refuses to be nailed to a point, and I have no interest in chasing him from one bush to the next


This from the guy without enough intellectual honesty to fill a teacup, who largely relies on biased sources to make ludicrous points 


Foxi4 said:


> they claimed their election was stolen, they refused to concede for a long time, they claimed that they actually won regardless of the final tally *and* they both lost their court battles. That was the argument, that’s it.


Again, your (deliberate) lack of acumen is astounding.

One party got his MANY legal challenges thrown out at the very beginning or dismissed after a brief process, considering they were completely baseless.

The other one had her single claim go for 4 years or so after acknowledgement of some merits existing, and ultimately the judge ruled against her only because of a strict interpretation of existing law, while agreeing that "georgian electors do face some challenges".

So no, your false equivalency is still wrong.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022



Foxi4 said:


> That’s what we were talking about, I’m not interested in anything else


No, that's what YOU were talking about, I as always made a more nuanced and extended point, which as always you decided to ignore because it didn't play in your biased narrative.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022



Foxi4 said:


> That’s all this was about.


No, that's you being illiterate and obviously being unable to read, because I never made that claim. All I did was express disbelief at the ridiculous assertion made by Trader the boomer that "Democrats have been denying elections for decades".


Dark_Ansem said:


> In your own little world perhaps


Y'all somehow decided to read that as if I somehow said "Democrats never denied an election result ever" and jumped about Stacey abrams, which happenened what, in 2019? As if somehow that proved your point against an imaginary assertion which I never stated. Again, the illiteracy of you both is not a concern of mine.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022



Xzi said:


> Ansem never should've said a Democrat has never cried foul over election results, that's obviously a false claim.


And in fact, I didn't say that. But those two far right trolls decided to act as if I said that. They're illiterate, so I'm sure they're not entirely in bad faith but even so. And Foxy Troxy, as usual, like the disingenuous lying troll he is, decided to take an entirely personal interpretation on something I didn't say and roll with it.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022



TraderPatTX said:


> The only thing that can explain what we are seeing here is simple trolling


It's actually you and Foxy being illiterate


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> This from the guy without enough intellectual honesty to fill a teacup, who largely relies on biased sources to make ludicrous points
> 
> Again, your (deliberate) lack of acumen is astounding.
> 
> ...


Have a blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year Dark, the section wouldn’t be the same without you.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 24, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Have a blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year Dark, the section wouldn’t be the same without you.


your "bless your little heart" response is really not a good way to try and hold a higher ground above someone; it comes off as unwarranted arrogance from someone who has never earned it.


----------



## chrisrlink (Dec 24, 2022)

in an ideal world i would want to see the insurection act reformed however we still have a split congress before 2024 so realisticly the chances of that happening are 1% at best


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 24, 2022)

CommanderCool said:


> your "bless your little heart" response is really not a good way to try and hold a higher ground above someone; it comes off as unwarranted arrogance from someone who has never earned it.


I hope you have a happy holiday also, I see nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 24, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Have a blessed Christmas and a Happy New Year Dark, the section wouldn’t be the same without you.


I accept your apology for having gone off the rails on completely imaginary grounds.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022



chrisrlink said:


> in an ideal world i would want to see the insurection act reformed however we still have a split congress before 2024 so realisticly the chances of that happening are 1% at best


Interesting, reformed how?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I accept your apology for having gone off the rails on completely imaginary grounds.


I haven’t made any apologies. I’ve stuck to the point quite strictly, I simply wasn’t (and still am not) interested in anything that immediately followed your premise since the premise was demonstrated to be incorrect (conclusively so).


----------



## chrisrlink (Dec 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I accept your apology for having gone off the rails on completely imaginary grounds.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2022
> 
> ...


making an isurection charged similar to treason (barred from running for potus and indirect support would do the same) heck why not go further most states bar anyone convicted from holding state office w need no criminals of any sort (on either side of the aisle) running our government


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 25, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I haven’t made any apologies. I’ve stuck to the point quite strictly, I simply wasn’t (and still am not) interested in anything that immediately followed your premise since the premise was demonstrated to be incorrect (conclusively so).


The premise I "made" exists only in your head because you're your usual lying gaslighting self, as I conclusively demonstrated, since I said nothing at all and you went completely off the rails with your own interpretation. And failed even at that, since you stopped at 2018 and couldn't go around showing "decades" of nothing. And lastly, since I wasn't talking to you and you just had to butt in, you are incorrect in principle since what I wrote to TraderBoomer doesn't necessarily apply to you. Unless you finally revealed your multiple accounts?

And I'm being generous since I have a massive temperature  Courtesy of your malignant "wishes" I'm sure; you jinx.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2022



chrisrlink said:


> making an isurection charged similar to treason (barred from running for potus and indirect support would do the same) heck why not go further most states bar anyone convicted from holding state office w need no criminals of any sort (on either side of the aisle) running our government


Inciting insurrection is already an offence which allows ban from running from public office, yes?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> (…) since you stopped at 2018 and couldn't go around showing "decades" of nothing.


I gave one example. What, you want more examples? In the 2000 election scores of Democrats claimed that Gore “would’ve won” if “all votes in Florida were counted”, and later they blamed the SCOTUS for “stealing the election” from them. In 2004 they challenged Ohio’s electoral college, claiming “irregularities” were to blame for Kerry’s loss, and wanted to throw those votes away. Between 2016 and 2020 all you could hear was that Trump was an “illegitimate president” who was “installed by Russia” - that didn’t turn out to hold much water either. All of this is common knowledge for anyone who’s followed American politics for longer than the last 5 minutes. How many examples do you want before it’s “decades”? 


> And I'm being generous since I have a massive temperature  Courtesy of your malignant "wishes" I'm sure; you jinx.


Get well soon.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Inciting insurrection is already an offence which allows ban from running from public office, yes?


Insurrection carries a fine, up to 10 years imprisonment or both and a lifetime ban on running for office.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

By contrast, treason is punishable by death or imprisonment for no less than 5 years and a fine.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381

My general understanding is that treason is considered more severe - it’s a crime against the United States (as an entire country), whereas an insurrection is an act against the government (currently in office).


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 25, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I gave one example. What, you want more examples? In the 2000 election scores of Democrats claimed that Gore “would’ve won” if “all votes in Florida were counted”, and later they blamed the SCOTUS for “stealing the election” from them. In 2004 they challenged Ohio’s electoral college, claiming “irregularities” were to blame for Kerry’s loss, and wanted to throw those votes away. Between 2016 and 2020 all you could hear was that Trump was an “illegitimate president” who was “installed by Russia” - that didn’t turn out to hold much water either. All of this is common knowledge for anyone who’s followed American politics for longer than the last 5 minutes. How many examples do you want before it’s “decades”?


What does "decades" mean? Just to comply with that basic requirement. A "decade" is an interval of 10 years so saying "decades" implies at least two of said 10-year intervals where election denial happens more than once for a prolonged period of time, usually lasting until the present.

I mean, Russia swinging the vote online towards Trump is an ascertained fact, confirmed by the Russian themselves earlier this year. As is the Troll factory. Unless you're saying Russia is lying about itself just to stir chaos? And it didn't depend on Russia alone either, since Cambridge Analytica and Facebook case is real. Not that this is election-denying in any way, but sure, let's count it like that.

More importantly I said nothing, that was Trader Boomer and you going off the rails to feed your own little fantasies and failing to score points.

The original sentence is not even syntax-wise correct but sure, I suppose that "2 instances", which also had grounds of truth, rather than being completely baseless, in twenty-two years counts for your two misleading heads as "been denying for decades" about something. Usually to say that you'd require something that still keeps going on, which there isn't, but sure, you say they did the same thing Trump did 



Foxi4 said:


> Get well soon


----------



## titan_tim (Dec 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Actually, there are emails between the FBI and Twitter where the FBI was telling Twitter who to ban and censor. Then they paid Twitter millions of dollars. I mean, if you support fascism, then just say so.


Oh please, copy and paste one of those emails which directly shows that the FBI wanted someone banned for their political beliefs and not for election disinformation. They had occasionally sent out messages publicly saying the accounts “may potentially constitute violations of Twitter’s Terms of Service”. Yeah, great order there. And as I mentioned, one of those accounts is still up and running. Also, as I mentioned earlier, but you ignored, is that when the FBI is legally requesting information for an investigation, the companies receiving those requests can be reimbursed for fulfilling them. Sorry, but it's common knowledge that has been going on forever.



TraderPatTX said:


> Well, since other people did wrong, everybody afterward can do the same. Good kindergarten logic you got there.


Just looking for consistency for what you believe is a giant issue. You have none, though. I never said it was an issue in the first place.



TraderPatTX said:


> A mugging where nothing was stolen off of him. He still had all of his money and jewelry. Explain why the FBI is fighting tooth and nail to keep his laptops hidden.


Then go and get to the bottom of it. Your talents are needed in the world! While you're at it, go solve every other cold case while you're at it. I'll be cheering you on. Godspeed! 



TraderPatTX said:


> So for Trump, it's an open and shut case even though he's still playing golf any time he pleases, but when it comes to the Cllintons, it better be an airtight case. Yeah, you're not a tribalist at all, lol.


It's only an open and shut case NOW. It wasn't just after the events of Jan 6th. They worked hard, did the investigation, and now have 814 pages of extremely damning evidence. That isn't even including what the DOJ already has collected by themselves. It was a long process, but ultimately it should bear fruit. They've already come at Trump with what MOST would believe were air tight cases, and his witness tampering caused them to not be able to make a final verdict of guilt. The Mueller report was clear on the point that it was not an exoneration.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 25, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> Oh please, copy and paste one of those emails which directly states which account they want banned. They had occasionally sent out messages publicly saying the accounts “may potentially constitute violations of Twitter’s Terms of Service”. Yeah, great order there. And as I mentioned, one of those accounts is still up and running. Also, as I mentioned earlier, but you ignored, is that when the FBI is legally requesting information for an investigation, the companies receiving those requests can be reimbursed for fulfilling them. Sorry, but it's common knowledge that has been going on forever.


save your breath.  you're making an attempt to interact with traderpattx.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> What does "decades" mean? Just to comply with that basic requirement. A "decade" is an interval of 10 years so saying "decades" implies at least two of said 10-year intervals where election denial happens more than once for a prolonged period of time, usually lasting until the present.
> 
> I mean, Russia swinging the vote online towards Trump is an ascertained fact, confirmed by the Russian themselves earlier this year. As is the Troll factory. Unless you're saying Russia is lying about itself just to stir chaos? And it didn't depend on Russia alone either, since Cambridge Analytica and Facebook case is real. Not that this is election-denying in any way, but sure, let's count it like that.
> 
> ...


I hate to do this to you on Christmas morning, but Democrats objected election results in 2001, 2004 and 2016. You are free to check my math, but 2001 was 21 years ago and that constitutes more than one decade, hence why I used the plural decades.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...democrats-have-objected-presidential-electio/

The Internet. Learn how to use it.

Merry Christmas to you and PrivatePyle.


----------



## titan_tim (Dec 25, 2022)

CommanderCool said:


> save your breath.  you're making an attempt to interact with traderpattx.


I don't mind. For me, Christmas is over. But for him to be here on Christmas morning spewing his garbage, he must be REALLY lonely. I'll give him the company he so desperately desires before I head to bed


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 25, 2022)

titan_tim said:


> I don't mind. For me, Christmas is over. But for him to be here on Christmas morning spewing his garbage, he must be REALLY lonely. I'll give him the company he so desperately desires before I head to bed


someone has to take care of our senior population.  and for free no less.  you're truly spreading the christmas spirit.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Dec 25, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I hate to do this to you on Christmas morning, but Democrats objected election results in 2001, 2004 and 2016. You are free to check my math, but 2001 was 21 years ago and that constitutes more than one decade, hence why I used the plural decades.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...democrats-have-objected-presidential-electio/
> 
> ...


Must be a party because you're late, in more ways than one.


----------



## CommanderCool (Dec 25, 2022)

back on the topic of jan 6th though man these fuckers and organizers of these fuckers need to be in jail with no parole that's some serious treason shit judges are too lenient on this shit


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 25, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> What does "decades" mean? Just to comply with that basic requirement. A "decade" is an interval of 10 years so saying "decades" implies at least two of said 10-year intervals where election denial happens more than once for a prolonged period of time, usually lasting until the present.


Requirement fulfilled then, since the cited examples span from 2000 to 2020, which is two decades, and multiple races. Not sure why you’d limit it to presidents, but even that requirement is also fulfilled.


----------



## Nothereed (Jan 2, 2023)

So apparently libs of tiktok was at january6th. This didn't come from the hearings for clarity sake. But rather related to january 6th.
Apparently she was in the restricted zone after she exposed her face on tucker Carlson. This doesn't mean she breeched the capital/entered the building.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 2, 2023)

Nothereed said:


> So apparently libs of tiktok was at january6th. This didn't come from the hearings for clarity sake. But rather related to january 6th.
> Apparently she was in the restricted zone after she exposed her face on tucker Carlson. This doesn't mean she breeched the capital/entered the building.


Why is this important? Why does this woman scare the left so much?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

Nothereed said:


> So apparently libs of tiktok was at january6th. This didn't come from the hearings for clarity sake. But rather related to january 6th.
> Apparently she was in the restricted zone after she exposed her face on tucker Carlson. This doesn't mean she breeched the capital/entered the building.


What a surprise, a terrorist doing terrorist things


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> What a surprise, a terrorist doing terrorist things


Why are you so scared of this woman?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Why are you so scared of this woman?


I didn't even know who she was until it was pointed out, and I'm not scared of a pathetic meme page collector, not even author, so, are you all right?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I didn't even know who she was until it was pointed out, and I'm not scared of a pathetic meme page collector, not even author, so, are you all right?


The fact that you called her a terrorist shows how scared you are of her. She didn't even do anything except protest. She didn't commit any violence and didn't even enter the building.

All she does is show how crazy and unhinged the left is and it makes all of you lose your collective minds.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> The fact that you called her a terrorist shows how scared you are of her. She didn't even do anything except protest. She didn't commit any violence and didn't even enter the building.


She literally went together with the other terrorists so...



TraderPatTX said:


> All she does is show how crazy and unhinged the left is and it makes all of you lose your collective minds.


Lol it takes a special kind of stupid to call others crazy and unhinged when you lot were frothing at your mouths like the rabid dogs you are at the (obviously false) "news" of "litterboxes in schools for students who identify as cats". Lies that this "woman" peddled knowingly, and she definitely needs to be punished for it.


----------



## Nothereed (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol it takes a special kind of stupid to call others crazy and unhinged when you lot were frothing at your mouths like the rabid dogs you are at the (obviously false) "news" of "litterboxes in schools for students who identify as cats". Lies that this "woman" peddled knowingly, and she definitely needs to be punished for it.


your going to get the "free speeeech" argument, or that trans people don't exist argument. Or he's going to call you unhinged for wanting a unhinged person with a platform de-platformed.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

Nothereed said:


> your going to get the "free speeeech" argument, or that trans people don't exist argument. Or he's going to call you unhinged for wanting a unhinged person with a platform de-platformed.


BoomerTX is a sad repetitive excuse for a human being then.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> She literally went together with the other terrorists so...


So all of the airline passengers on 9/11 are terrorists too? Weird flex.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol it takes a special kind of stupid to call others crazy and unhinged when you lot were frothing at your mouths like the rabid dogs you are at the (obviously false) "news" of "litterboxes in schools for students who identify as cats".


You people still believe that Trump had hookers pee on him in Russia, and that his company was talking to Alfa Bank, and that there were Russian bounties on our soldiers. lol


Dark_Ansem said:


> Lies that this "woman" peddled knowingly, and she definitely needs to be punished for it.


And how should she be punished for sharing videos others willingly post to TikTok?

	Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2023



Dark_Ansem said:


> BoomerTX is a sad repetitive excuse for a human being then.


I'm Gen X you moron. If you are going to try and insult me, at least base it in fact. lol

	Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2023



Nothereed said:


> your going to get the "free speeeech" argument, or that trans people don't exist argument. Or he's going to call you unhinged for wanting a unhinged person with a platform de-platformed.


Thanks for clarifying that you are against the 1st Amendment. Just like a fascist.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> So all of the airline passengers on 9/11 are terrorists too? Weird flex


Not weird at all that you display your complete lack of brainpower. Your stupid point would exist if she had been forced to participate to the Capitol terror attack. But nice way to pour shit on 9/11 victims. As I said, it takes a special kind of stupid to be you.



TraderPatTX said:


> You people still believe that Trump had hookers pee on him in Russia, and that his company was talking to Alfa Bank, and that there were Russian bounties on our soldiers. lol


Not even a veiled attempt at deflection so my point stands.



TraderPatTX said:


> And how should she be punished for sharing videos others willingly post to TikTok?


I'm not sure, after all the things I singled her out for are things she did first-hand. 



TraderPatTX said:


> I'm Gen X


More like Gen C all right, the Hound would know exactly how to qualify you


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Not weird at all that you display your complete lack of brainpower. Your stupid point would exist if she had been forced to participate to the Capitol terror attack. But nice way to pour shit on 9/11 victims. As I said, it takes a special kind of stupid to be you.


Your personal attacks are getting boring. 

A better comparison would be the BLM riots during the "Summer of Love", where 50 people were murdered, but I'm sure you have a lame excuse how they were mostly peaceful, except for the 50 murders.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Not even a veiled attempt at deflection so my point stands.


It's not deflection when it is true. BlueAnon conspiracy theories have been proven wrong over and over, including the one where dRumpf cheated on his taxes.


Dark_Ansem said:


> I'm not sure, after all the things I singled her out for are things she did first-hand.


You know what you want to happen to her. You can tell me. We're friends after all. She's already been doxxed so where do you go from there?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> You know what you want to happen to her. You can tell me. We're friends after all. She's already been doxxed so where do you go from there?


If there's one certainty in life, is that you and I will never be friends. In fact, stop touching me, you gross MAGA QAnonite.

Also, I don't think doxxed is the right word when she voluntarily went to speak to Fox News?




TraderPatTX said:


> Your personal attacks are getting boring.
> 
> A better comparison would be the BLM riots during the "Summer of Love", where 50 people were murdered, but I'm sure you have a lame excuse how they were mostly peaceful, except for the 50 murders.


Not me the one who had to go to defile 9/11 to defend a terrorist, you creep.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> If there's one certainty in life, is that you and I will never be friends. In fact, stop touching me, you gross MAGA QAnonite.


That pains me, bro.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Also, I don't think doxxed is the right word when she voluntarily went to speak to Fox News?


She was doxxed before she went on Fox News. And of course, you agree with the corporate media.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/doxxing-libs-tiktok-creator-justified-rcna25280


Dark_Ansem said:


> Not me the one who had to go to defile 9/11 to defend a terrorist, you creep.


This from the guy who supports defiling children.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> This from the guy who supports defiling children.


I dare you to find any evidence of me saying that. Big claims behind a keyboard. If you had made the same claim IRL I'd have brought your sorry arse behind bars.



TraderPatTX said:


> She was doxxed before she went on Fox News. And of course, you agree with the corporate media.


No, I agree with common sense.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I dare you to find any evidence of me saying that. Big claims behind a keyboard. If you had made the same claim IRL I'd have brought your sorry arse behind bars.


Then why are you so mad that LibsofTikTok is exposing the groomers. One would have to agree with them to have such an emotional reaction.


Dark_Ansem said:


> No, I agree with common sense.


So being against corporations was also a lie from the left. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Then why are you so mad that LibsofTikTok is exposing the groomers. One would have to agree with them to have such an emotional reaction.


Lol the majority of pedos is rightwing hypocrites. She'd sort her own house. What she does is lie and hate monger against innocent people and make up outrageous hate stirring like the litterbox nonsense.



TraderPatTX said:


> So being against corporations was also a lie from the left. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.


Not all corporations are equal. Trump Corp I'm definitely against. Infowars, Fox News, I'm against. You know, hate-stirring untouchables.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol the majority of pedos is rightwing hypocrites. She'd sort her own house. What she does is lie and hate monger against innocent people and make up outrageous hate stirring like the litterbox nonsense.


I guarantee you have zero data to back up this first claim.

She lies and hate mongers by showing videos that leftists make and post to TikTok themselves.   



Dark_Ansem said:


> Not all corporations are equal. Trump Corp I'm definitely against. Infowars, Fox News, I'm against. You know, hate-stirring untouchables.


Corporations the left does love: Big Pharma, corporations who use Chinese slave labor, green corporations who use African child slave labor, legacy media, social media (except for Truth and Twitter since last year), banks who de-bank people like Kanye West, but doing business with people like Jeffrey Epstein is good.


----------



## Bghope (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> I guarantee you have zero data to back up this first claim.
> 
> She lies and hate mongers by showing videos that leftists make and post to TikTok themselves.
> 
> ...


Wow I didn’t actually think this much cognitive dissonance could actually exist. It’s really sad what maga and the qanon nuts have done to a democracy. We are at the end of right wing cringe over here with the Tories basically robbing from everyone and screwing workers and trying to blame it all on Asylum seekers and remainers. Truth is we can now see that the ones in charge need to be honest accountable and nonmedia affiliates. Hope you guys sort it out your country needs both of you to succeed.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Bghope said:


> Wow I didn’t actually think this much cognitive dissonance could actually exist. It’s really sad what maga and the qanon nuts have done to a democracy. We are at the end of right wing cringe over here with the Tories basically robbing from everyone and screwing workers and trying to blame it all on Asylum seekers and remainers. Truth is we can now see that the ones in charge need to be honest accountable and nonmedia affiliates. Hope you guys sort it out your country needs both of you to succeed.


First of all, the United States is not a democracy, so you can just stop there. We are a constitutional republic. Big difference.

Second, I'm not even sure why you replied to my comment. Nothing that you said addresses anything that I said.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> I guarantee you have zero data to back up this first claim.
> 
> She lies and hate mongers by showing videos that leftists make and post to TikTok themselves


I guarantee you have zero data on claiming I'm a pedo and yet you did it all the same...




TraderPatTX said:


> Corporations the left does love: Big Pharma, corporations who use Chinese slave labor, green corporations who use African child slave labor, legacy media, social media (except for Truth and Twitter since last year), banks who de-bank people like Kanye West, but doing business with people like Jeffrey Epstein is good.


I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about corpos liked by the left, not Trump Inc and the murdoch empire.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2023



TraderPatTX said:


> First of all, the United States is not a democracy, so you can just stop there. We are a constitutional republic. Big difference.


Lol are you out of your mind?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I guarantee you have zero data on claiming I'm a pedo and yet you did it all the same...


For being British, your English is horrible. Go reread what I wrote. I never called you a pedo. I merely suggested that you may support them since that is who LibsofTikTok highlights.


Dark_Ansem said:


> I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about corpos liked by the left, not Trump Inc and the murdoch empire.


I remember a time when the left hated Big Pharma, but I just watched you all get down on your knees for them over the past 2 years.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol are you out of your mind?


I can see how you would think I'm out of my mind when speaking facts. You are probably not used to seeing facts in your day to day life.


----------



## Bghope (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> For being British, your English is horrible. Go reread what I wrote. I never called you a pedo. I merely suggested that you may support them since that is who LibsofTikTok highlights.
> 
> I remember a time when the left hated Big Pharma, but I just watched you all get down on your knees for them over the past 2 years.
> 
> I can see how you would think I'm out of my mind when speaking facts. You are probably not used to seeing facts in your day to day life.


Surely by the token of electing representatives you are in fact a democracy we in the uk are a state/monarchy granted democracy so think you need to take your foot off the c*nt pedal


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

Bghope said:


> Surely by the token of electing representatives you are in fact a democracy we in the uk are a state/monarchy granted democracy so think you need to take your foot off the c*nt pedal


The UK is a parliamentary monarchy. You elect your representatives in the House of Commons, you don’t elect your lords or the monarch. In contrast, citizens of the United States elect representatives of each of their own states, and come big election time, they take part in the popular vote in regards to the President, however ultimately the leader is elected by state electors, not the people. Both have elements of democracy, but neither is “a democracy” in the pure Greek (direct democracy) fashion, those effectively don’t exist anymore. Most countries we colloquially call democratic are representative democracies. The argument itself is an exercise in splitting hairs.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Bghope said:


> Surely by the token of electing representatives you are in fact a democracy we in the uk are a state/monarchy granted democracy so think you need to take your foot off the c*nt pedal


The individual states are considered a democracy. However, the presidential election is not. And before the awful 17th Amendment, senators were appointed by state legislators. Don't blame me because you believe whatever the propaganda media feeds you and you refuse to look things up on your own.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> The individual states are considered a democracy. However, the presidential election is not. And before the awful 17th Amendment, senators were appointed by state legislators. Don't blame me because you believe whatever the propaganda media feeds you and you refuse to look things up on your own.


You could just as easily argue that the U.S. is a representative democracy (and you’d be right, it is). Your argument is based on specificity and comes across as a little pedantic, no offense.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Foxi4 said:


> You could just as easily argue that the U.S. is a representative democracy (and you’d be right, it is). Your argument is based on specificity and comes across as a little pedantic, no offense.


Considering that the Founders specifically called it a republic, I can't think of a higher authority about the type of government that I live under.


----------



## smf (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Considering that the Founders specifically called it a republic, I can't think of a higher authority about the type of government that I live under.


What you call it, has nothing to do with what it is...

hence "Democratic People's _Republic_ of Korea (DPRK)"


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Considering that the Founders specifically called it a republic, I can't think of a higher authority about the type of government that I live under.


It’s a federal constitutional republic. It’s also a democracy. Squares are also rectangles. The element that makes it a democracy is open elections. Once again, your argument is that the word “democracy” isn’t specific enough. Do you entertain the idea that it can in fact be both? Because it is.


----------



## smf (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> And before the awful 17th Amendment,


What is awful about it?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

smf said:


> What is awful about it?


You could argue that people voting in their senators removes a designed stopgap. The people were supposed to elect the house while the state legislatures were supposed to elect the senators, so that one would be a control on the other. The majority of the U.S. framework was designed in a “people versus the state” fashion so as to curb the predations of both. If the people elect both the house and the senate then you effectively end up with two houses. The setup prior to the 17th was more closely related to the British framework - the House of Commons representing the interests of the people and the House of Lords representing the interests of the state (in a roundabout way, considering the aristocracy has lost much of its “teeth” in regards to influence over the last few centuries). There’s a nuanced argument to be had whether that’s a good or a bad thing.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s a federal constitutional republic. It’s also a democracy. Squares are also rectangles. The element that makes it a democracy is open elections. Once again, your argument is that the word “democracy” isn’t specific enough. Do you entertain the idea that it can in fact be both? Because it is.


The individual states are democracies. The United States is republic. The people who created it called it a republic. Who am I to argue with them?

	Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2023



smf said:


> What is awful about it?


The purpose of checks and balances is that all parties are represented in the government. The 17th Amendment diminished the power of the individual states. The same states that created the federal government in the first place became subjugated to their creation.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2023



smf said:


> What you call it, has nothing to do with what it is...
> 
> hence "Democratic People's _Republic_ of Korea (DPRK)"


It will continue to be a republic unless the uniparty destroys it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> The individual states are democracies. The United States is republic. The people who created it called it a republic. Who am I to argue with them?


We’re talking about the United States as a complete entity. If it has a (sizeable) element of democratically held elections then it is a democracy by the virtue of that element. What kind of democracy is another question entirely. I can see your point, I just disagree with the way you state it. Those terms are not mutually exclusive, they’re complimentary. In the same way, the UK is a democracy, because we choose (a part) of our Parliament, but it is also a monarchy, because it has a monarch as the head of state. Heck, it’s even further sub-divided - Wales has its own government, and each county under said government has *another* government, and so on and so forth all the way down to individual cities and their city councils.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Foxi4 said:


> We’re talking about the United States as a complete entity. If it has a (sizeable) element of democratically held elections then it is a democracy by the virtue of that element. What kind of democracy is another question entirely. I can see your point, I just disagree with the way you state it. Those terms are not mutually exclusive, they’re complimentary. In the same way, the UK is a democracy, because we choose (a part) of our Parliament, but it is also a monarchy, because it has a monarch as the head of state. Heck, it’s even further sub-divided - Wales has its own government, and each county under said government has *another* government, and so on and so forth all the way down to individual cities and their city councils.


It's been called a republic from the beginning. It's even in our Pledge of Allegiance. 

Since the republic has safeguards for the minority whereas democracies are just mob rule, one can't say that the United States is a democracy in all honesty.

It would be like calling a billionaire a millionaire. Even though it's true, it's not descriptive of reality.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> It's been called a republic from the beginning. It's even in our Pledge of Allegiance.
> 
> Since the republic has safeguards for the minority whereas democracies are just mob rule, one can't say that the United States is a democracy in all honesty.
> 
> It would be like calling a billionaire a millionaire. Even though it's true, it's not descriptive of reality.


It is a republic. It’s also a democracy. It’s literally both. The reason why the founders generally didn’t refer to it as one is because at the time the term was synonymous with direct democracy (Madison elaborates on this in Federalist no.14). We’re not talking about direct democracy, we’re talking about representative democracy. Hamilton actually made the case for it at the time, and called it by that name in a letter to Governor Morris (1777). I quote:



> ”When the deliberative or judicial powers are vested wholly or partly in the collective body of the people, you must expect error, confusion and instability. But a representative democracy, where the right of election is well secured and regulated & the exercise of the legislative, executive and judiciary authorities, is *vested in select persons*, chosen really and not nominally by the people, will in my opinion be most likely to be happy, regular and durable.”



That sure sounds like the system you’re in right now. Like I said, all of this is hair splitting - potato potato.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

Foxi4 said:


> It is a republic. It’s also a democracy. It’s literally both. The reason why the founders generally didn’t refer to it as one is because at the time the term was synonymous with direct democracy (Madison elaborates on this in Federalist no.14). We’re not talking about direct democracy, we’re talking about representative democracy. Hamilton actually made the case for it at the time, and called it by that name in a letter to Governor Morris (1777). I quote:


When asked what kind of government did they form, Benjamin Franklin answered, "A republic, if we can keep it."

"Democracy is the most vile form of government."
- James Madison


Foxi4 said:


> That sure sounds like the system you’re in right now. Like I said, all of this is hair splitting - potato potato.


It's always confusing to me why people have such a problem calling the United States a republic. There have been numerous arguments about it on GBATemp alone. Why are people so intent on changing language?


----------



## crueI (Jan 3, 2023)

https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> When asked what kind of government did they form, Benjamin Franklin answered, "A republic, if we can keep it."
> 
> "Democracy is the most vile form of government."
> - James Madison
> ...


Madison is specifically talking about direct democracy. The U.S. is, indeed, a republic. The method by which you choose your representatives is democratic, which makes the system a democracy. I don’t have an issue with you calling the U.S. what it is - it’s a federal republic. I have an issue with you not acknowledging that it’s a democracy when it demonstrably is one. That being said, we’re getting so circular here that we might get the spins, so I’ll leave it at that. Discussions about subsets and supersets are always delightfully boring.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 3, 2023)

crueI said:


> https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/


They need to update their story to include the text Ray Epps sent to his nephew admitting he orchestrated the Capitol break in.

https://thepostmillennial.com/i-orchestrated-it-ray-epps-texted-his-nephew-on-jan-6-report


----------



## CommanderCool (Jan 4, 2023)

i forgot to unmark this thread but it sure was a nice exercise in watching traderpattx continue to be an advocate for why his mom should have swallowed.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 4, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> For being British, your English is horrible. Go reread what I wrote. I never called you a pedo. I merely suggested that you may support them since that is who LibsofTikTok highlights.


More double standards from you; quite in line with your mo.



TraderPatTX said:


> I remember a time when the left hated Big Pharma, but I just watched you all get down on your knees for them over the past 2 years.


Careful, showing your age and senility.



TraderPatTX said:


> I can see how you would think I'm out of my mind when speaking facts


No, you're speaking your alternative facts.



Foxi4 said:


> The argument itself is an exercise in splitting hairs.


Hear that BoomerTX? You're lying. Again.


----------



## Bghope (Jan 4, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> They need to ...


Sorry just seen your from Florida as you were, good luck with Ron and Trump. It’s a good sign your now so proud of being in a republic as I believe it was your state that was most adamant that you shouldn’t join. Just a couple of hundred years and look your arguing for it well done, imagine your great grandchild will probably be where we are now some people just evolve at a slower rate, god speed moon beam ....


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## TraderPatTX (Jan 4, 2023)

CommanderCool said:


> i forgot to unmark this thread but it sure was a nice exercise in watching traderpattx continue to be an advocate for why his mom should have swallowed.


Oh no, what will I do now? PrivatePyle came back and tried to insult me. I guess I'm done for now.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2023



Dark_Ansem said:


> More double standards from you; quite in line with your mo.


It's not double standards if you can't prove your point.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Careful, showing your age and senility.


Less than 10 years ago is not showing my age. Unless you are 12, which I doubt it, even though you write like you are.


Dark_Ansem said:


> No, you're speaking your alternative facts.


There's no such thing as alternative facts. That's just a word the groomer media told you to say.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Hear that BoomerTX? You're lying. Again.


State the lie. You never back up any of your accusations against me because you are weak minded and have the emotional maturity of a toddler.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2023



Bghope said:


> Sorry just seen your from Florida as you were, good luck with Ron and Trump. It’s a good sign your now so proud of being in a republic as I believe it was your state that was most adamant that you shouldn’t join. Just a couple of hundred years and look your arguing for it well done, imagine your great grandchild will probably be where we are now some people just evolve at a slower rate, god speed moon beam ....


English isn't your first language, is it, Scooter?


----------



## Bghope (Jan 4, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Oh no, what will I do now? PrivatePyle came back and tried to insult me. I guess I'm done for now.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2023
> 
> ...


The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot.

That republic your so fond of quoting turns out it’s kind of a....democracy 
I mean don’t take my word for it maybe read the constitution


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## TraderPatTX (Jan 4, 2023)

Bghope said:


> The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot.
> 
> That republic your so fond of quoting turns out it’s kind of a....democracy
> I mean don’t take my word for it maybe read the constitution


If you scroll up, you'll see that I quoted a couple of Founders who were actually there. Benjamin Franklin called it a republic and James Madison, the author of the Constitution, is quoted as saying he despised democracies.

I'll take the word of the guys who wrote the Constitution.

I have moved on from this conversation as one, it is off topic and two, I've said all I have to say on the subject. I even wrote it all down for your reading pleasure.


----------



## smf (Jan 4, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> James Madison, the author of the Constitution, is quoted as saying he despised democracies.



He sounds like an asshole.

https://mises.org/wire/why-james-madison-hated-democracy

The founding fathers aren't god, you don't need to worship them.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 5, 2023)

smf said:


> He sounds like an asshole.
> 
> https://mises.org/wire/why-james-madison-hated-democracy
> 
> The founding fathers aren't god, you don't need to worship them.


They were smarter, wiser and braver than you are though.
-snip-


----------



## Bghope (Jan 5, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> They were smarter, wiser and braver than you a





TraderPatTX said:


> They were smarter, wiser and braver than you are though.
> -snip-


Seems smart gets to talk smack about something and then goes ahead and signs up for something completely different sounds like an ass.

Your defence is I quoted a guy who said it’s not a duck and then signed a document saying I love ducks and this is definitely a duck.


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> They were smarter, wiser and braver than you are though.
> -snip-


At this point, it's clear you are just a cult member. I have 234 more years of experience than those douchebags, while you want to ignore what happened in the mean time and dream of living in the past.

Yeah they did one thing you like, which was arguably good on balance, but there is no need to go all "kim jong un" on them.



Bghope said:


> Your defence is I quoted a guy who said it’s not a duck and then signed a document saying I love ducks and this is definitely a duck.


It's worse, the argument is "it can't be a duck, because the person who made the duck said they didn't like ducks". We have no idea whether he was deranged, or whether he was playing to two audiences. A bit like how Trump handled the Covid 19 pandemic and January 6th riots.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 5, 2023)

Bghope said:


> Seems smart gets to talk smack about something and then goes ahead and signs up for something completely different sounds like an ass.
> 
> Your defence is I quoted a guy who said it’s not a duck and then signed a document saying I love ducks and this is definitely a duck.


Just because you perceive it to be a duck doesn't mean it is actually a duck. Once again, I will trust the guy who actually wrote the Constitution over some nobody on a tech forum.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2023



smf said:


> At this point, it's clear you are just a cult member. I have 234 more years of experience than those douchebags, while you want to ignore what happened in the mean time and dream of living in the past.
> 
> Yeah they did one thing you like, which was arguably good on balance, but there is no need to go all "kim jong un" on them.


That's a lot of projection there for a Branch Covidian who spent the last couple of years worshipping Fauci, saying he is smarter than peer reviewed cardiologists and Harvard Medical doctors.


----------



## Bghope (Jan 5, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Just because you perceive it to be a duck doesn't mean it is actually a duck. Once again, I will trust the guy who actually wrote the Constitution over some nobody on a tech forum.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Jan 5, 2023
> 
> ...


What is it with you right wing southerners oh I know it’s cause you all worship men like madison.

I quote
One of the few insights Feldman provides into Madison's personal life was his failed attempt to court Catherine "Kitty" Floyd, the daughter of one his fellow delegates to the Continental Congress. Kitty was 15 at the time; Madison was 32.

Yeah nice guy that madison


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 5, 2023)

Bghope said:


> What is it with you right wing southerners oh I know it’s cause you all worship men like madison.


First of all, I'm not a southerner. I'm a Texan. Huge difference. What is it with leftists and accusing others of worshipping people? No wonder you all are called NPC's, you say the same things to the same people. Try having an original thought.


Bghope said:


> I quote
> One of the few insights Feldman provides into Madison's personal life was his failed attempt to court Catherine "Kitty" Floyd, the daughter of one his fellow delegates to the Continental Congress. Kitty was 15 at the time; Madison was 32.
> 
> Yeah nice guy that madison


It was common in the 1700's for early marriages. People had to have big families to work on the family farm and you can't have big families if women didn't start having babies until they were 30.

Maybe now would be a good time to bring up Biden showering with his daughter. Nice guy that you support.

Learn some history, Scooter, before running your mouth.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 6, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> There's no such thing as alternative facts. That's just a word the groomer media told you to say.


Actually it was your hero Trump and his cabal who had the idea... senility once again.




TraderPatTX said:


> State the lie


You said "america isn't a democracy", which may be true under RepubliKKKan administration but we aren't there yet.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2023



Bghope said:


> men like madison


Half-men FTFY

	Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2023



TraderPatTX said:


> First of all, I'm not a southerner. I'm a Texan. Huge difference


Lol Texas is in the South of the US, more of your embarrassing hair-splitting distinctions without meaningful differences. No wonder you're a small-time NPC with no original thoughts except your cultist parrot-like vomiting.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 6, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Actually it was your hero Trump and his cabal who had the idea... senility once again.


The term used is fake news. And considering their TV ratings are down and WaPo lost 500 thousand subscribers last year, I'm not the only one who thinks that's true.


Dark_Ansem said:


> You said "america isn't a democracy", which may be true under RepubliKKKan administration but we aren't there yet.


Rep Adam Schiff was getting people censored and banned for wrongthink, just like a fascist.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Half-men FTFY


Still twice the man you are. They also kicked your British ass, lol.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol Texas is in the South of the US, more of your embarrassing hair-splitting distinctions without meaningful differences. No wonder you're a small-time NPC with no original thoughts except your cultist parrot-like vomiting.


Go talk to a New Yorker and a Bostonian and try to tell them they are the same and see what kind of reaction you get. Better yet, go tell somebody from London and somebody from Belfast they are the same. They are both from the UK after all.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 6, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Go talk to a New Yorker and a Bostonian and try to tell them they are the same and see what kind of reaction you get. Better yet, go tell somebody from London and somebody from Belfast they are the same. They are both from the UK after all.


I accept your surrender 



TraderPatTX said:


> Still twice the man you are. They also kicked your British ass, lol.


Which means 10 times the "man" you are?



TraderPatTX said:


> Rep Adam Schiff was getting people censored and banned for wrongthink, just like a fascist.


Ah yes the "censorship" which somehow is always decried but never happens.



TraderPatTX said:


> The term used is fake news. And considering their TV ratings are down and WaPo lost 500 thousand subscribers last year, I'm not the only one who thinks that's true.


It's alternative facts as well. You know who else is dropping? Newsmax, fox and the rest of your crap.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Jan 6, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I accept your surrender


Sure. Whatever you say. Don't call us when Russia's on your doorstep.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Which means 10 times the "man" you are?


Recycling what I say is not a good look.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Ah yes the "censorship" which somehow is always decried but never happens.


Except it's proven in emails now. Looks like somebody watches CNN and doesn't know what is going on.






Dark_Ansem said:


> It's alternative facts as well. You know who else is dropping? Newsmax, fox and the rest of your crap.


Good. Fox News and Newsmax have been exposing who they really are for a few years now. I hope they suffer more than CNN and WaPo.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jan 7, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Sure. Whatever you say. Don't call us when Russia's on your doorstep


So when your master is on our doorstep? 



TraderPatTX said:


> Recycling what I say is not a good look.


I improved it because you were being a bit silly and your statements are just sad.



TraderPatTX said:


> Except it's proven in emails now. Looks like somebody watches CNN and doesn't know what is going on.


Nothing in that email talks about censorship, how interesting that someone who'd go out of his way to embarass himself by saying the US isn't a democracy but a "Republic" by splitting hairs would now go for such a broad and vastly inaccurate interpretation. Almost as if you're being your usual NPC indoctrinated self.



TraderPatTX said:


> Good. Fox News and Newsmax have been exposing who they really are for a few years now. I hope they suffer more than CNN and WaPo.


You know, I'd almost be inclined to believe this statement if you didn't regurgitate constantly their talking points, like a good NPC.


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## tabzer (Jan 7, 2023)

Man, @Dark_Ansem is fucking boring.  When are you going to develop a character?  We all know what @TraderPatTX is, but what are you?  Maybe avoiding paying child support was interesting, for somebody.


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## TraderPatTX (Jan 7, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> So when your master is on our doorstep?


Sure, but still, don't call us. Call NATO.


Dark_Ansem said:


> I improved it because you were being a bit silly and your statements are just sad.


You improving anything is impossible.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Nothing in that email talks about censorship, how interesting that someone who'd go out of his way to embarass himself by saying the US isn't a democracy but a "Republic" by splitting hairs would now go for such a broad and vastly inaccurate interpretation. Almost as if you're being your usual NPC indoctrinated self.


English really isn't your primary language. Paul Sperry ended up getting his account banned.


Dark_Ansem said:


> You know, I'd almost be inclined to believe this statement if you didn't regurgitate constantly their talking points, like a good NPC.


I have never had nice things to say about Fox News and I dare you to point to where I did.

	Post automatically merged: Jan 7, 2023



tabzer said:


> Man, @Dark_Ansem is fucking boring.  When are you going to develop a character?  We all know what @TraderPatTX is, but what are you?  Maybe avoiding paying child support was interesting, for somebody.


Dark_Assem is just a troll and flamer. He flames every single thread he comments on. I have yet to see him add anything constructive to any conversation on GBATemp. I gotta say though, it is getting boring proving this guy wrong every single day.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jan 7, 2023)

TraderPatTX said:


> Dark_Assem is just a troll and flamer. He flames every single thread he comments on. I have yet to see him add anything constructive to any conversation on GBATemp. I gotta say though, it is getting boring proving this guy wrong every single day.


Luckily you never did so...



TraderPatTX said:


> I have never had nice things to say about Fox News and I dare you to point to where I did.


You are obviously illiterate, because that's not what I said.



TraderPatTX said:


> English really isn't your primary language. Paul Sperry ended up getting his account banned.


The USA is a democracy, no matter how flawed it is, and for the little time it remains. So for all your harping about "English not being primary language" you're amazingly illiterate.




TraderPatTX said:


> You improving anything is impossible.


I improve the threads you infest with your nonsense so... you're wrong.


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## TraderPatTX (Jan 7, 2023)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Luckily you never did so...


Sure buddy.


Dark_Ansem said:


> You are obviously illiterate, because that's not what I said.


LOL


Dark_Ansem said:


> The USA is a democracy, no matter how flawed it is, and for the little time it remains. So for all your harping about "English not being primary language" you're amazingly illiterate.


It's a republic.


Dark_Ansem said:


> I improve the threads you infest with your nonsense so... you're wrong.


LOL


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## Dark_Ansem (Tuesday at 5:54 PM)

TraderPatTX said:


> Sure buddy.
> 
> LOL
> 
> ...


Are you upset your buddies in Brazil lost?


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## TraderPatTX (Tuesday at 6:51 PM)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Are you upset your buddies in Brazil lost?


Are you happy that an ex-con is now the president of Brazil? Of course you are. You're part of the "by any means necessary" commie crowd who killed over 100 million people last century.


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## tabzer (Tuesday at 7:05 PM)

How does one become an ex-con?  Did they find Jesus?


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## TraderPatTX (Tuesday at 11:32 PM)

tabzer said:


> How does one become an ex-con?  Did they find Jesus?


Getting released from prison makes one an ex-con. They are not a convict anymore. Ex-con. Ex-convict.


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## tabzer (Wednesday at 1:58 AM)

TraderPatTX said:


> Getting released from prison makes one an ex-con. They are not a convict anymore. Ex-con. Ex-convict.



For some reason I was thinking con-artist.


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## TraderPatTX (Wednesday at 1:12 PM)

tabzer said:


> For some reason I was thinking con-artist.


In this case, either can be used and it looks like Brazilians don't want any part in it. On the upside, we finally found a refugee the left is willing to deport, so there's that.


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## Dark_Ansem (Thursday at 2:16 PM)

TraderPatTX said:


> Are you happy that an ex-con is now the president of Brazil?


He was innocent and wrongly convicted by a corrupt judge so yes, I'm always happy to see an innocent win.


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## TraderPatTX (Yesterday at 12:39 AM)

Dark_Ansem said:


> He was innocent and wrongly convicted by a corrupt judge so yes, I'm always happy to see an innocent win.


You'd vote for Jimmy Savile for president, so this is not surprising.


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## Dark_Ansem (12 minutes ago)

TraderPatTX said:


> You'd vote for Jimmy Savile for president, so this is not surprising.


lol I accept your surrender of completely discarding a fact in favour of a baseless personal attack.


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