# [RUMOR] Several Wii U dev kits returned to Nintendo



## Devin (May 14, 2013)

Rumor has it 10 or so developers have returned their Wii U dev kits. As posted a few days ago Avalanche Studios (Just Cause series, and one of the devs returning the hardware.) said their dev kits were gathering dust. This was apparently due to no idea on how to use the hardware, no ideas, and little to no contact from Nintendo. Avalanche Studios believes the Wii U is a "cool" idea but not a step in the right direction for their company. However this seems to be the main issue with a lot of 3rd party devs, and could be the reason for the. Excuse me. 



Spoiler



Hazing no gamez








 
The other devs that returned their kits (If there are any.) have yet to come forth.

 Source


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## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

Ha, joke's on them, Nintendo has a strict "No backsies" policy!


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## nukeboy95 (May 14, 2013)

No don't send it to Nintendo, send them to me.


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## Walker D (May 14, 2013)

So many WiiU news that come to the same conclusion..






Hope this tone changes a bit after E3 ...


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## Eerpow (May 14, 2013)

Probably not true, it's not a logical chioce to return it when you can just have it sitting there in case it becomes useful in the future. A rumor about 10 unknown devs from an unknown source? Yeah right.
And we already covered Avalanche's decision in the previous thread, not being able to contact them is a straight up lie as proven by other devs, even indies. The reason they won't develop Wii U games is that it doesn't make sense financially.
Why invent excuses? Well, if they were to say the truth people would see them as the bad guy instead of Nintendo. Truth is that Avalanche is right in not developing Wii U software, sales won't pick up thanks to third party ports. This is pretty much BS, devs are most likely sitting there waiting and letting the kits gather dust in case things turn around.

Getting rid of the devkits would be a nice move though, Nintendo would certainly see the whole "3rd party support" scenario as something a lot more serious if that was the case.


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## the_randomizer (May 14, 2013)

Yay for more Nintendo Negativity threads!


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## Devin (May 14, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Probably not true, it's not a logical chioce to return it when you can just have it sitting there in case it becomes useful in the future. A rumor about 10 unknown devs from an unknown source? Yeah right.
> And we already covered Avalanche's decision in the previous thread, not being able to contact them is a straight up lie as proven by other devs, even indies. The reason they won't develop Wii U games is that it doesn't make sense financially.
> Why invent excuses? Well, if they were to say the truth people would see them as the bad guy instead of Nintendo. Truth is that Avalanche is right in not developing Wii U software, sales won't pick up thanks to third party ports.
> This is pretty much BS, devs are most likely sitting there waiting letting the kits gather dust in case things turn around.
> ...


 
I agree with you on a few points. My thing to chime is that we don't know the nature of the dev kits. Nintendo could say "Hey, we'll give these dev kits out to you but we expect at least [insert content here] within a time frame of blank." While the 10 devs seems a bit off, as a rumor that's really a milestone.

Don't know why people would get antsy about Wii U threads in the USN. If there was good news about the Wii U it'd be posted. In other words don't shoot the messenger.


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## Snailface (May 14, 2013)

Well, its only a few more months till the "Its the End of the World for System X" stories shift to PS4-720.
Take solace in that, Team N. Let's just get through the summer.


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## Eerpow (May 14, 2013)

Devin said:


> I agree with you on a few points. My thing to chime is that we don't know the nature of the dev kits. Nintendo could say "Hey, we'll give these dev kits out to you but we expect at least [insert content here] within a time frame of blank." While the 10 devs seems a bit off, as a rumor that's really a milestone.
> 
> Don't know why people would get antsy about Wii U threads in the USN. If there was good news about the Wii U it'd be posted. In other words don't shoot the messenger.


We can't see the whole picture true, but it doesn't make sense for Nintendo to implement such a rule. Nintendo don't win anything by taking the devkits back, they probably have a pretty good view on the situation and are going to do what it takes to sell the system sooner or later. As a developer, if the audience grows then porting your game will be worth it. I don't buy the whole "sending them back" story, it's too convenient to come out right after a big wave of negative news.


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## chavosaur (May 14, 2013)

I just had a mental image of Iwata opening a package and seeing all the wii u's with a sticky note on it,"No thanks."


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## KingVamp (May 14, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> I just had a mental image of Iwata opening a package and seeing all the wii u's with a sticky note on it,"No thanks."


And then looking at the games they are about to release then he, "laughs."


Seriously, Nintendo about to bring their big guns out, it doesn't really seem like a good time to return. If they are returning that is.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 14, 2013)

If it were me, I'd sell the kit to make a few bucks.


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## Eerpow (May 14, 2013)

Nintendo haven't even tried yet, we've only had excuses from them for not releasing their games. We should at least let them give it a shot before we start screaming ninntendoooomed.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 14, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Nintendo haven't even tried yet, we've only had excuses from them for not releasing their games. We should at least let them give it a shot before we start screaming ninntendoooomed.


 
Nobody actually believes the Wii U is doomed. Nobody in their right mind anyway. It hasn't even been out for a full year yet.


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## the_randomizer (May 14, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Nintendo haven't even tried yet, we've only had excuses from them for not releasing their games. We should at least let them give it a shot before we start screaming ninntendoooomed.


 
A little late for that, aren't we? People have been bitching and moaning about Nintendo falling into oblivion since day one, without any substantial evidence.


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## Qtis (May 14, 2013)

Not that unheard of, I'd imagine everyone has a return policy in one way or another. Just like you can return products you don't want. Not that they're bad, they just may not be for you.


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## Foxi4 (May 14, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> If it were me, I'd sell the kit to make a few bucks.


Selling somewhat entails that you need a buyer...


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## FAST6191 (May 14, 2013)

Do Nintendo actually charge ongoing license fees? Initial costs/extra units sure*, percentages of a game/straight publishing fee but of course but ongoing seems a bit strong.

*here and on various flash cart forums we have had various devs looking to purchase flash carts for their devs/testers on several occasions over the years.

Re Selling them on. I know most were in jest but to get them they probably have to sign rather large contracts to say they will not and despite the resounding meh given to Nintendo's recent efforts I would still actively avoid being blacklisted by them.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 14, 2013)

The source of this is some random website, Dashhacks that conveniently specializes in Wii U news and doesn't seem to be very popular. This is probably BS.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 14, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Nobody actually believes the Wii U is doomed. *Nobody in their right mind anyway*. It hasn't even been out for a full year yet.


 
You'd be surprised. Hell people have said that Nintendo is in serious trouble (keep in mind, they said the exact same things about the 3DS and that it won't be able to compete with the Vita [which said the same thing about the DS not being able to compete with the PSP], and lo and behold, the vita is a piece of a garbage right now sitting on shelves). Saying that Nintendo has to go out of the hardware business, has to go third party support only, make games for Sony and Microsoft's consoles and all this other shit. And Adam Sessler said it best "If that happens to Nintendo, then the game industry is in serious trouble".


Anyways, I'm looking forward to the coming months when the WiiU starts selling left right and center and they become impossible to find. And then everybody starts praising the WiiU (like they are with the 3DS) and games come out so fast that they can't sell right away because people have no money left because they bought the other games. And then everybody on this site and every other site will start saying "Nobody expected the WiiU to fail", "Everybody knew it was going to succeed" , "It was obvious that it was going to sell" and all this other stuff while completely forgetting that everybody bashed it and Nintendo.


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## Rydian (May 14, 2013)

soulx said:


> The source of this is some random website, Dashhacks that conveniently specializes in Wii U news and doesn't seem to be very popular. This is probably BS.


Dashhacks was PSP-hack-focused back when the PSP actually had homebrew development.


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## Ergo (May 14, 2013)

Seriously people, if you're going to make **** up, at least make it semi-plausible.


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## Mantis41 (May 14, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Yay for more Nintendo Negativity threads!


Everyone is just a tad butt hurt. Nintendo promised something and didn't really deliver.


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## WiiUBricker (May 14, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> If it were me, I'd sell the kit to make a few bucks.


I'm sure they are contracted to return dev kits to them.


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## BORTZ (May 14, 2013)

If this is true, this is incredibly sad. Now, granted, Nintendo has always had a rough time with 3RD party support. 

While I can't really claim to be a Ninty Fanboy, as I don't own a WiiU (yet hopefully), this makes me sad on a few levels. Not that I "only play nintendo games" but they make the games I want to play. My friend literally bought me a 360 and I can't even be assed to go downstairs and play Halo 4 with all of my friends on monday nights. I'd rather sit in my bed and play wii on my standard def TV or Mario 3D land on my 3DS. Even though I own some flagship titles for the 360 (burnout revenge which is old and I beat on PS2, FF13 where you learn that graphics don't sell games alone, Skyrim which is a big overhyped game, fun but not as everyone says, Halo 4 and Battlefield, where I have to be playing with friends to enjoy it, I get so friggin bored looking down the sights of a gun...) I'd rather play childish games that nintendo makes. I like over saturated colors and silly childish translations.
I'm going to be very very sad if the WiiU proves to be too big a blunder for them to handle.


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## Mantis41 (May 14, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> If this is true, this is incredibly sad. Now, granted, Nintendo has always had a rough time with 3RD party support.
> 
> While i cant really claim to be a Ninty Fanboy, as i dont own a WiiU (yet hopefully), this makes me sad on a few levels. Not that I "only play nintendo games" but they make the games i want to play. My friend literally bought me a 360 and i cant even be assed to go downstairs and play Halo 4 with all of my friends on monday nights. Id rather sit in my bed and play wii on my standard def TV or Mario 3D land on my 3DS. Even though i own some flagship titles for the 360 (burnout revenge which is old and i beat on PS2, FF13 Where you learn that graphics dont sell games alone, Skyrim, which is a big overhyped game, fun but not as everyone says, Halo 4 and Battlefield, where i have to be playing with friends to enjoy it, i get so friggin bored looking down the sights of a gun...) id rather play childish games that nintendo makes. I like over saturated colors and silly childish translations. Im going to be very very sad if the WiiU proves to be too big a blunder for them to handle.


You can always try and drive a car that has had its physics modelled off an elephant on roller skates or even better try and fly a plane that has all the feeling and poise of a tossed house brick.


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## BORTZ (May 14, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> You can always try and drive a car that has had its physics modelled off an elephant on roller skates or even better try and fly a plane that has all the feeling and poise of a tossed house brick.


I'm sorry what


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## Deleted member 473940 (May 14, 2013)

Nintendo 64U


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## Chary (May 14, 2013)

Doesn't everyone remember the "3DS is doomed" bandwagon everyone and their brother was riding on last year? I mean, _really. _Yeah, Nintendo is at fault for being so slow to release gaems, but really, the Nintendoomed-sayers are getting annoying.


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## Mantis41 (May 14, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> I'm sorry what


I was thinking of other games that are not shooters and then added some sarcasm regarding how bad most offerings from those two genres are.


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## Coto (May 14, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> Nintendo 64U


The N64 was unique, the Wii U can barely break up today standards. leaving the x console sold y while z did more shit out


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## BORTZ (May 14, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> I was thinking of other games that are not shooters and then added some sarcasm regarding how bad most offerings from those two genres are.


Ah, I appreciate it.


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## chavosaur (May 14, 2013)

Chary said:


> Doesn't everyone remember the "3DS is doomed" bandwagon everyone and their brother was riding on last year? I mean, _really. _Yeah, Nintendo is at fault for being so slow to release gaems, but really, the Nintendoomed-sayers are getting annoying.


While true, it wasn't just games that helped the 3DS sell. They also sliced the price, released the XL, and got some more 3rd party support.


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## Eerpow (May 14, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> If this is true, this is incredibly sad. Now, granted, Nintendo has always had a rough time with 3RD party support.
> 
> While i cant really claim to be a Ninty Fanboy, as i dont own a WiiU (yet hopefully), this makes me sad on a few levels. Not that I "only play nintendo games" but they make the games i want to play. My friend literally bought me a 360 and i cant even be assed to go downstairs and play Halo 4 with all of my friends on monday nights. Id rather sit in my bed and play wii on my standard def TV or Mario 3D land on my 3DS. Even though i own some flagship titles for the 360 (burnout revenge which is old and i beat on PS2, FF13 Where you learn that graphics dont sell games alone, Skyrim, which is a big overhyped game, fun but not as everyone says, Halo 4 and Battlefield, where i have to be playing with friends to enjoy it, i get so friggin bored looking down the sights of a gun...) id rather play childish games that nintendo makes. I like over saturated colors and silly childish translations. Im going to be very very sad if the WiiU proves to be too big a blunder for them to handle.


You know the saying, you play what your friends play, well I don't think that hold muchs truth, otherwise I would be a WoW, CS and Starcraft player. Many big releases like Skyrim I tried to give a shot but just can't enjoy, like I played Minecraft a day or two but got quickly bored with it, endlessly breaking blocks for materials felt like a chore imo, not a game I'd play for fun.
I don't think it has to do with, oh it's Nintendo, I grew up with them! Playstation used to have loads of games that weren't afraid to look a little childish, it's just that things have changed. And people will jump and call you a fanboy...
Nowadays it's either indies or Japanese devs that does these "outside of the box" kind of games, few exceptions.


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## BORTZ (May 14, 2013)

Yeah, I mean big name games don't really do it for me, it's not that I don't like them, sure the idea and watching someone play Bioshock infinite is cool, but if I owned the game, chances are I'd never play it. I just don't care.


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## Eerpow (May 14, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> Yeah, I mean big name games don't really do it for me, it's not that I don't like them, sure the idea and watching someone play Bioshock infinite is cool, but if I owned the game, chances are I'd never play it. I just don't care.


There's a difference between saying, "this game sucks!, how unimaginative!" and genuinely not having interest. It's only bad if you never played the games in the first place before you say something.
There are so many complaining about FPS's for all the wrong reasons.


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## yuyuyup (May 14, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Yay for more Nintendo Negativity threads!


I think it's a Nintendo Positivity thread.  The faster the Wii U crashes and burns, the faster Nintendo can (hopefully) pull their heads out of their asses and go back to GOOD, CREATIVE ideas. Bringing the DS model to the TV screen is NOT creative, it's a rehash. A poorly executed rehash at that; if you want to use touch controls on a TV game, you need to either hold the Wii U up to eye level, or take your eyes off the damn TV. Why would I want that?


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## Sterling (May 14, 2013)

yuyuyup said:


> I think it's a Nintendo Positivity thread.  The faster the Wii U crashes and burns, the faster Nintendo can (hopefully) pull their heads out of their asses and go back to GOOD, CREATIVE ideas. Bringing the DS model to the TV screen is NOT creative, it's a rehash. A poorly executed rehash at that; if you want to use touch controls on a TV game, you need to either hold the Wii U up to eye level, or take your eyes off the damn TV. Why would I want that?


Lol. You don't even have a Wii U do you?


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## wolf-snake (May 14, 2013)

question. who the hell is avalanche studio and why should we care about them?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

wolf-snake said:


> question. who the hell is avalanche studio and why should we care about them?


 
They made Just Cause and Just Cause 2. You should care because Just Cause 2 was fun as shit.


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## RedCoreZero (May 14, 2013)

Devin said:


> Rumor has it 10 or so developers have returned their Wii U dev kits. As posted a few days ago Avalanche Studios (Just Cause series, and one of the devs returning the hardware.) said their dev kits were gathering dust. This was apparently due to no idea on how to use the hardware, no ideas, and little to no contact from Nintendo. Avalanche Studios believes the Wii U is a "cool" idea but not a step in the right direction for their company. However this seems to be the main issue with a lot of 3rd party devs, and could be the reason for the. Excuse me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



....I like your Ed icon.


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## Joe88 (May 14, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Dashhacks was PSP-hack-focused back when the PSP actually had homebrew development.


this, I was a mod on that site back in the day (2005)
granted popularity on that site has gone down, I dont think they would make up random news
though it might be more exaggerated then it really is


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## wolf-snake (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> They made Just Cause and Just Cause 2. You should care because Just Cause 2 was fun as shit.



Never heard of it. Still it doesn't seem good so I don't care about those devs


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## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

wolf-snake said:


> Never heard of it. Still it doesn't seem good so I don't care about those devs


 
"well i dont play it so it doesnt matter if the wii u gets it or not"

Ignorance = bliss.


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## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> Everyone is just a tad butt hurt. Nintendo promised something and didn't really deliver.


That's funny. People get all bitchy that Nintendo somehow will fail and their consoles are doomed to oblivion.



yuyuyup said:


> I think it's a Nintendo Positivity thread. The faster the Wii U crashes and burns, the faster Nintendo can (hopefully) pull their heads out of their asses and go back to GOOD, CREATIVE ideas. Bringing the DS model to the TV screen is NOT creative, it's a rehash. A poorly executed rehash at that; if you want to use touch controls on a TV game, you need to either hold the Wii U up to eye level, or take your eyes off the damn TV. Why would I want that?


 
Oy gevalt. Don't hate it till you've tried it. You don't even have a Wii U.

Well, I'm off to play my Wii U with its nonexistent games and enjoy them.


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## Ericthegreat (May 15, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Probably not true, it's not a logical chioce to return it when you can just have it sitting there in case it becomes useful in the future. A rumor about 10 unknown devs from an unknown source? Yeah right.
> And we already covered Avalanche's decision in the previous thread, not being able to contact them is a straight up lie as proven by other devs, even indies. The reason they won't develop Wii U games is that it doesn't make sense financially.
> Why invent excuses? Well, if they were to say the truth people would see them as the bad guy instead of Nintendo. Truth is that Avalanche is right in not developing Wii U software, sales won't pick up thanks to third party ports. This is pretty much BS, devs are most likely sitting there waiting and letting the kits gather dust in case things turn around.
> 
> Getting rid of the devkits would be a nice move though, Nintendo would certainly see the whole "3rd party support" scenario as something a lot more serious if that was the case.


Perhaps you get part of your money back. (which is prob alot)


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## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

My feelings on this thread

tl:dr


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## Devin (May 15, 2013)

...That's not a lot to read.

imo:imo


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## weavile001 (May 15, 2013)

take a look at this:






its very funny


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## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Oy gevalt. Don't hate it till you've tried it. You don't even have a Wii U.
> 
> Well, I'm off to play my Wii U with its nonexistent games and enjoy them.


 
"Don't hate it until you've tried it" is a pretty dumb thing to say when "trying it" equates to either a small tech demo at a kiosk which you'd throw out the window anyway or a $300 investment.

Like if you think the concept is shitty then you don't need it to tell you otherwise.


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## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "Don't hate it until you've tried it" is a pretty dumb thing to say when "trying it" equates to either a small tech demo at a kiosk which you'd throw out the window anyway or a $300 investment.
> 
> Like if you think the concept is shitty then you don't need it to tell you otherwise.


 
Yeah, you're right, I should have at least asked if they've played the Virtual Boy back in 1995.


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## Bobbybangin (May 15, 2013)

Old news...or rumor I should say. Sounds like another crap story. How do we know there were 8 others returned? Maybe the two devs who returned just said that so they don't look that bad or whoever started this rumor isn't doing the same thing?

Besides, anybody paying attention would notice that Dashhacks has written no less than 5 negative articles on the Wii U in the last week alone.


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## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

RUMOR: Microsoft to make console that has a hexa-core CPU 32 GB or DDR3 SDRAM and a 2 GB GPU 

See, anyone can pull rumors from their arse. 

Rumors != factual information


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## shakirmoledina (May 15, 2013)

eh its the 3ds all over again.
price drop or more games... instant winner


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## Foxi4 (May 15, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> Nintendo 64U


Funny stuff! 



wolf-snake said:


> Never heard of it. Still it doesn't seem good so I don't care about those devs


http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/just-cause
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/just-cause-2


The fun part about only following Nintendo-related developments throughout the last generation is that you miss out on a whole lot of content.


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## regnad (May 15, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Probably not true, it's not a logical chioce to return it when you can just have it sitting there in case it becomes useful in the future. A rumor about 10 unknown devs from an unknown source? Yeah right.
> And we already covered Avalanche's decision in the previous thread, not being able to contact them is a straight up lie as proven by other devs, even indies. The reason they won't develop Wii U games is that it doesn't make sense financially.
> Why invent excuses? Well, if they were to say the truth people would see them as the bad guy instead of Nintendo. Truth is that Avalanche is right in not developing Wii U software, sales won't pick up thanks to third party ports. This is pretty much BS, devs are most likely sitting there waiting and letting the kits gather dust in case things turn around.
> 
> Getting rid of the devkits would be a nice move though, Nintendo would certainly see the whole "3rd party support" scenario as something a lot more serious if that was the case.


 
And they all returned them simultaneously in a secret, anonymous mass protest that got leaked accidentally.


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## war2thegrave (May 15, 2013)

All the crying can now cease!
Once the booklets nintendo are distributing "activate" their customers,
developers will be scrambling for new dev kits.


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## izzydeank (May 15, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> All the crying can now cease!
> Once the booklets nintendo are distributing "activate" their customers,
> developers will be scrambling for new dev kits.View attachment 2638


Everybody knows that AAA games don't sell consoles, booklets do.


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## war2thegrave (May 15, 2013)

"Customers, activate!"


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## Devin (May 15, 2013)

I was activated by Nintendo once. Let's just say I still cringe at the sight of Wii remotes.


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## pwsincd (May 15, 2013)

I don't ever recall reading the review though Devin !!


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## Kouen Hasuki (May 15, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> *Nintendo haven't even tried yet*, we've only had excuses from them for not releasing their games. We should at least let them give it a shot before we start screaming ninntendoooomed.


 
maybe that's part of the problem right there, You could argue its early days but come on "go big or go home", not to mention Vita is in a similar boat and many was happy to call it doomed so to be fair given the similarity I don't think its totally uncalled for 

That said do I think the Wii U is doomed, No not yet, Do I think it will be? If Nintendo doesn't pull the finger lodged in there ass and really push the console yes I think it is.


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## T3GZdev (May 15, 2013)

give us the dev kits. 
people who actually want to dev on the console. 
not developers that will just let dev kits collect dust & down talk them.


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## grossaffe (May 15, 2013)

Well that settles it, Nintendo must be going under.  Only a matter of days until they quit the hardware game and put Mario on XBOX, Playstation, and IOS.


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## Kouen Hasuki (May 15, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> Well that settles it, Nintendo must be going under. Only a matter of days until they quit the hardware game and put Mario on XBOX, Playstation, and IOS.


The Horror....

Think of the names of the games xD iMario Kart, Super Mario PS4, New Super Mario Bros 360 cuz you know Nintendo and naming 



pwsincd said:


> I don't ever recall reading the review though Devin !!




I don't even wanna know what you was searching for on YouTube


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## Veho (May 15, 2013)

Do the rumors say if the supposed devs demanded their money back?


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## pwsincd (May 15, 2013)

Kouen Hasuki said:


> I don't even wanna know what you was searching for on YouTube


 

Well erm content for my post ... yeah that


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## Kouen Hasuki (May 15, 2013)

pwsincd said:


> Well erm content for my post ... yeah that


 
Lets.... go with that... yea


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## Eerpow (May 15, 2013)

Kouen Hasuki said:


> maybe that's part of the problem right there, You could argue its early days but come on "go big or go home", not to mention Vita is in a similar boat and many was happy to call it doomed so to be fair given the similarity I don't think its totally uncalled for
> 
> That said do I think the Wii U is doomed, No not yet, Do I think it will be? If Nintendo doesn't pull the finger lodged in there ass and really push the console yes I think it is.


They've said that they pull back on advertising, and that the system isn't ready yet. They rushed it so it could be released before Christmas, no new software after launch is the whole reason why they haven't really talked much about the Wii U.
The Vita's problem is is lack of advertisement and games that cater to the "portable gaming" audience, most gamers don't want to play inferior "versions" of their favorite console franchises when they can play it on home consoles. Vita needs more exclusives that separates it from it's big brother, Gravity Rush is a good example of such a game. What people want from Vita is a continuation of what the PSP was. That said, it's been a while and the Vita has gathered some interesting titles, so the main problem right now is the practically nonexistent advertisement for it.


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## Tigran (May 15, 2013)

Can someone tell me some of the interesting Vita titles?


Not triyng to be sarcastic.. I'm actually curious as mine is mainly used for Disgaea..Mostly PSP versions of the game.. and Persona 4


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## Clydefrosch (May 15, 2013)

Let's just wait and see how many people will really pick up the competition.
at least nintendo is known to do good enough on their own. Pitty for wii u sales though, but I expect numbers to pick up with a zelda, mario and metroid game. And is there already a kart title? Oh and smash bros...as long as they tighten the controls again.


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## Gnargle (May 15, 2013)

>No source whatsoever
>Not even from avalanche
>Avalanche's apparent claims that Nintendo didn't contact them at all contradicted by devs actually working on WiiU games
Nah, get fucked.
I like Avalanche, Just Cause 2 is a great game, but let's be honest here: a developer who have never produced a game for a Nintendo console were hardly going to start now.


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## Nah3DS (May 15, 2013)

mmmm this rumor sounds BS too

_"it's cool, but we don't know what to do with it"_
apparently... devs are too dumb for nintendo's new console


----------



## Kalidor (May 15, 2013)

No games, but Bayonetta 2 is for the Wii U (xbox and PS fan boy haters, you can cry).

If the Wii U is doomed, what is the situation for the PS Vita?


----------



## Prior22 (May 15, 2013)

People people people. This is Nintendo we're talking about here. They'll survive just fine without massive amounts of third party support. Thankfully Nintendo isn't in the same realm as Microsoft or Sony, in terms of relying on games like COD or GTA to sell systems. Once a few big name first party WiiU games are released system sales will see a big increase (just like the 3ds a while back with Mario Kart and 3d Land).


----------



## GameWinner (May 15, 2013)

Kalidor said:


> No games, but Bayonetta 2 is for the Wii U (xbox and PS fan boy haters, you can cry).
> 
> If the Wii U is doomed, what is the situation for the PS Vita?


"lolol the Wii U is doomed but let's compare it to this handheld that is also doomed lolol!!1"


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

lol I think it's hysterical when people go "BUT LOOK AT THE VITA". Is your argument so weak that you need to say "WELL THIS IS DOING BADLY TOO" and think it'll make the situation of the Wii U any less shit?


----------



## chavosaur (May 15, 2013)

Prior22 said:


> People people people. This is Nintendo we're talking about here. They'll survive just fine without massive amounts of third party support. Thankfully Nintendo isn't in the same realm as Microsoft or Sony, in terms of relying on games like COD or GTA to sell systems. Once a few big name first party WiiU games are released system sales will see a big increase (just like the 3ds a while back with Mario Kart and 3d Land).


So your argument is that Xbox and Playstation don't have to rely on certain titles but Nintendo just needs to rely on its certain titles? Wut? ._.

You realize Sony and Microsoft do well because they have their Exclusives and Their first party titles working in harmony yes?
Even if the wii u picks up with first party... 
What happens if there's still no third party support?
I don't want a Wii U to ONLY play Mario and Zelda. It's a next gen system, that I wanted to be able to play Mario, Zelda, Mass effect, Crysis, And the multitude of other games that aren't Nintendo related for me to enjoy.


----------



## GameWinner (May 15, 2013)

Prior22 said:


> People people people. This is Nintendo we're talking about here. They'll survive just fine without massive amounts of third party support. Thankfully Nintendo isn't in the same realm as Microsoft or Sony, in terms of relying on games like COD or GTA to sell systems. Once a few big name first party WiiU games are released system sales will see a big increase (just like the 3ds a while back with Mario Kart and 3d Land).


That's cute but Sony and Microsoft don't rely on third party. It's a big help sure, but relying on it? It's up to them to make their system appealing and that's what they have done.


----------



## jomaper (May 15, 2013)

The amount of "Vita is doing worst" "Ninty just needs yet another Zelda/Mario/Kirby" comments are making me sad.
You guys expect the Wii U to do good yet you don't understand that the exact problem is that Nintendo's relying way too much on their own games while ignoring 3rd party devs. 
The worst part of this is that the same guys that say "We just need Z/M/K" are the same that will cry because of the lack of ideas for those same games


----------



## chavosaur (May 15, 2013)

I may be stretching here, but it's like a lot of people have been saying. 
EVERY CONSOLE RELIES ON HEALTHY FIRST AND THIRD PARTY. 
Believe me, Sony And Microsoft both couldn't rely solely on their own IP's and neither could Nintendo, no matter how much anyone wants to think so. 
Let me introduce another argument here just to counter everyone saying 3DS PICKED UP AFTER NINTY IP'S, WII U WILL TOO!
Well here the thing about that. 
The 3DS and the Vita are the two sole competitors in the handheld market (unless you wanna count smartphones)
The Wii U however, is going up STILL against the 360, Ps3, and the soon to be Nextbox and Ps4. 
Devs had a choice with Vita and 3DS. A 50/50 shot for payout, and an obvious sign of who will pay out. 
However NOW, It's split up into 5 different paths you can take. The wii U is outnumbered by 2 Consoles ATM, and another 2 On the way! 
So devs can see there's about 80% chance of payout on all the other platforms, or a 20% shot with a console that's struggling to even compete. It's obvious who they're going to roll with ATM. 
I mean, think about it. If you're a gambler, your going to go with the better odds right? 
Well right now the wiiU is a BAD gamble.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

"It's Nintendo, they don't need third parties to sell!"

oh man the n64 and gamecube were AAA++++++ selling consoles guiz.

EDIT: I just find the overestimation of Nintendo as the most prevailing force in gaming is such an absolute joke. You cannot shove coal up their ass and have them shit diamonds.


----------



## Osha (May 15, 2013)

And then Nintendo reveals Smash Bros Kerfuffle and Super Mario Universe during E3, making the sales skyrocket, like always.



Guild McCommunist said:


> "It's Nintendo, they don't need third parties to sell!"
> 
> oh man the n64 and gamecube were AAA++++++ selling consoles guiz.


They made a good profit, which is more than enough.


----------



## ov3rkill (May 15, 2013)

Just waiting for a any first party games from Nintendo especially the SSB game.  It would really make me insta-buy the console.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

Osha said:


> And then Nintendo reveals Smash Bros Kerfuffle and Super Mario Universe during E3, making the sales skyrocket, like always.
> 
> 
> They made a good profit, which is more than enough.


 
"A good profit" is not 100 million Playstation sales and 150 million Playstation 2 sales.

Plus if downscaling from a 100 million+ selling Wii to a N64 or Gamecube level "success" is "okay" in the books of gamers then you really don't understand how business works.


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

This thread is a hilarious read from the view of a level minded person. Type butthurt into google, this has to be the first thread up. Seriously, I don't like hearing this news just like any other VIDEO GAME fan, but if all this is true... then yes Nintendo do have to get their shit together. It's a rumor, like any other rumor it can be true or false. But you do have to take into account the amount of devs just this week who have turned the other cheek to the console. Insomniac, Take Two... which consists of 2Kgames, 2KSports, WWE Games and Rockstar.. thats a total of 6 devs, just this week. I would LOVE to have played all these games on my brand spankin' new Wii U, the fact is these devs are being lazy and dont want to develop for this... which I will never get. But hey, we'll see how we go, Nintendo have been oddly quiet on it's leadup to E3, usually that's a really good thing. I always say E3 is Nintendo's event, big stage or not. And hey, FIVE Events? HELL YES PLEASE BITCH!


----------



## MrDowner (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "It's Nintendo, they don't need third parties to sell!"
> 
> oh man the n64 and gamecube were AAA++++++ selling consoles guiz.


 
Although you are correct on N64 and GC selling horribly compared to the others in its gen, the Wii destroyed the other two in its gen and it had as much third party as the previous two.

Not saying that it's acceptable to have little to no third party support however.


----------



## Rydian (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> and it had as much third party as the previous two.


wut
The Wii had far more games from third-party devs.  Look at Wiiware in general, for one.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> Although you are correct on N64 and GC selling horribly compared to the others in its gen, the Wii destroyed the other two in its gen and it had as much third party as the previous two.
> 
> Not saying that it's acceptable to have little to no third party support however.


 
I'm pretty sure I've taken shits with more third party support than the N64 in all fairness.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (May 15, 2013)

I don't believe that such a shitty rumour got front-paged... ¬¬


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm pretty sure I've taken shits with more third party support than the N64 in all fairness.


 
I bet it has GTA V coming out on it too.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

rizzod said:


> I bet it has GTA V coming out on it too.


 
Grand Theft Asshole V: Shit Andreas.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm pretty sure I've taken shits with more third party support than the N64 in all fairness.


 
Do you try to talk as much shit as you do or are you just a natural?


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I don't believe that such a shitty rumour got front-paged... ¬¬


 
It's a rumor.. it's not fact. Get over it.


----------



## DDTarZan (May 15, 2013)

So, developers don't want to *make* games for a system that allegedly *has no games*, which means the system will *continue to have no games*. That hardly makes sense to me.

It seems either the developer is too modest or is not too confident in their ability to make games, and that's not how you make it in life.


----------



## MrDowner (May 15, 2013)

Rydian said:


> wut
> The Wii had far more games from third-party devs. Look at Wiiware in general, for one.


 
Yes it does, but it had the least third party in its gen as the previous two and it did fine.


----------



## Gahars (May 15, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Do you try to talk as much shit as you do or are you just a natural?


 
10/10 pro argument would rebuttle again


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Do you try to talk as much shit as you do or are you just a natural?


 
Nah I'm just not daft.




MrDowner said:


> Yes it does, but it had the least third party in its gen as the previous two and it did fine.


 

Because of an immense casual appeal paired with a successful marketing campaign.

The Wii U is simply not the Wii so why people expecting the Wii to be a valid historical comparison when in fact the two consoles are rather different (both in terms of design, audience, and a slew of other things) is beyond me.


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> Yes it does, but it had the least third party in its gen as the previous two and it did fine.


 
LMFAO WUT!? OMFG I think we all here can name a store that has a $2 Bin full of nice Shovelware for Wii, guess where most of it comes from? 3rd Party Developers. The Wii was the leader in shovelware, due to it's "Mommy"/Casual appeal. Anybody who did not have an inkling of what they were picking up would have a copy of Game Party or Water Sports in their Wii Library, and those are just two titles. Please stop the madness in this thread, it's giving me a headache, somebody LOCK IT ALREADY!


----------



## The Catboy (May 15, 2013)

rizzod said:


> It's a rumor.. it's not fact. Get over it.


Yes, but a rumor really shouldn't be placed on the front page. 

Honestly I am just going to wait and see how this all plays out because at this point the system can go in any direction in the near future.


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> Yes, but a rumor really shouldn't be placed on the front page.
> 
> Honestly I am just going to wait and see how this all plays out because at this point the system can go in any direction in the near future.


 
I totally agree, I hope it's a success. The end.


----------



## GameWinner (May 15, 2013)

DDTarZan said:


> So, developers don't want to *make* games for a system that allegedly *has no games*, which means the system will *continue to have no games*. That hardly makes sense to me.
> 
> It seems either the developer is too modest or is not too confident in their ability to make games, and that's not how you make it in life.


It's up to Nintendo to drum up interest for their console and get developers interested in it.


----------



## MrDowner (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Because of an immense casual appeal paired with a successful marketing campaign.
> 
> The Wii U is simply not the Wii so why people expecting the Wii to be a valid historical comparison when in fact the two consoles are rather different (both in terms of design, audience, and a slew of other things) is beyond me.


 
Everyone knows the casuals is what sold the Wii, thus proving third party did not sell the Wii, only marketing as you said.

And I don't see how the Wii U is more designed to be like N64/GC than Wii in terms of design, unless you mean as a power console.


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> Everyone knows the casuals is what sold the Wii, thus proving third party did not sell the Wii, only marketing as you said.
> 
> And I don't see how the Wii U is more designed to be like N64/GC than Wii in terms of design, unless you mean as a power console.


 
Okay so here's a question then.. if the Wii did not have the casual appeal, No Wii Sport, only was able to play New Super Mario Bros Wii, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Galaxy... and the Zelda's and so on (first party)... with only limited motion controlling (I say that mainly because that's what appealed the casuals, not having to press buttons but wave a stick) and no shovelware/3rd party support ... Do you honestly think it would have sold as well as it did?


----------



## MrDowner (May 15, 2013)

rizzod said:


> Okay so here's a question then.. if the Wii did not have the casual appeal, No Wii Sport, only was able to play New Super Mario Bros Wii, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Galaxy... and the Zelda's and so on (first party)... with only limited motion controlling (I say that mainly because that's what appealed the casuals, not having to press buttons but wave a stick) and no shovelware/3rd party support ... Do you honestly think it would have sold as well as it did?


 
No, it would have been two Gamecubes taped together.

I mean look at the SNES, that was THE console to go to for third party games and first.
These last four consoles have been mostly for first party games.

Speaking of which, why is Nintendo so hostile with third parties?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> Everyone knows the casuals is what sold the Wii, thus proving third party did not sell the Wii, only marketing as you said.
> 
> And I don't see how the Wii U is more designed to be like N64/GC than Wii in terms of design, unless you mean as a power console.


 
because there were no third party casual games guys


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> No, it would have been two Gamecubes taped together.


 
So then, Why do people immediately assume that with the release of all these first party games, that the Wii U will somehow be an immediate success?


----------



## MrDowner (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> because there were no third party casual games guys


wii did good because casuals bought the wii just for casual third party games and not for the motion controls everyone hyped about guise



rizzod said:


> So then, Why do people immediately assume that with the release of all these first party games, that the Wii U will somehow be an immediate success?


Because of fanboys.
They blindly love Nintendo so much that they think they can do no wrong and save themselves with only first parties.


----------



## Joe88 (May 15, 2013)

rizzod said:


> So then, Why do people immediately assume that with the release of all these first party games, that the Wii U will somehow be an immediate success?


 
it gives them hope, but owners are in denial
first party won't save it


----------



## chavosaur (May 15, 2013)

Joe88 said:


> it gives them hope, but owners are in denial
> first party wont save it


I literally am starting to believe I'm the only wii u owner that isn't trying to justify or blind myself as to how bad the system is doing...


----------



## MrDowner (May 15, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> I literally am starting to believe I'm the only wii u owner that isn't trying to justify or blind myself as to how bad the system is doing...


I'm here, friend.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 15, 2013)

Love this denial horse shit. Rather than slate a console that's been available for a very small amount of time, come back after 2 years and and slate it then when there are no games. It would be 100% justified if that was the case. Until then, slow down that bandwagon you've hopped onto and be patient.


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Love this denial horse shit. Rather than slate a console that's been available for a very small amount of time, come back after 2 years and and slate it then when there are no games. It would be 100% justified if that was the case. Until then, slow down that bandwagon you've hopped onto and be patient.


 
I hardly call 6 Months (Half a year) a small amount of time.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 15, 2013)

rizzod said:


> I hardly call 6 Months (Half a year) a small amount of time.



Considering a console generally lasts around 6 years before the next gen are announced, yeah. I'd say it's a very small amount of time.


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Considering a console generally lasts around 6 years before the next gen are announced, yeah. I'd say it's a very small amount of time.


 
Well, you sir are living life in fast forward. But I'm not willing to give up on it... just yet... E3 is just around the corner, let's hope all these rumors of awesome first party content is coming. It will help Nintendo a little, but I totally and honestly doubt it will ever touch the Wii. I think Nintendo fans are having a hard time dealing with that.


----------



## chavosaur (May 15, 2013)

Here's the funniest thing. 
People continually say, NINTENDO DOESN'T EVEN NEED THIRD PARTIES, THEY CAN SURVIVE OFF FORST PARTY ALONE. 
Those people don't seem to realize that at this very moment, if the wii u only had its first party games available...
IT WOULD HAVE
TWO
GAMES. 
New Super Mario Bros U
And Nintendo Land. 
Would any wii u owner seriously be satisfied at this moment with only those two games to play?
Hell, most people that I know that have a wii U, AREN'T EVEN PLAYING THOSE GAMES!
They're playing Monster Hunter or Black Ops or other games which, last I checked, Are THIRD PARTY.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 15, 2013)

rizzod said:


> Well, you sir are living life in fast forward. But i'm not willing to give up on it... just yet... E3 is just around the corner, let's hope all these rumors of awesome first party content is coming. It will help Nintendo a little, but I totally and honestly doubt it will ever touch the Wii. I think Nintendo fans are having a hard time dealing with that.



Why does it need to touch the Wii? And haven't Nintendo stated that they aren't bothering with E3 this year?


----------



## rizzod (May 15, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Why does it need to touch the Wii? And haven't Nintendo stated that they aren't bothering with E3 this year?


 
Forget it. I knew I was talking to the wrong person here.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Why does it need to touch the Wii? And haven't Nintendo stated that they aren't bothering with E3 this year?


 
They will still be there, they're not doing a traditional show.

*Goes and plays the Wii U and the six games I bought*


----------



## hey_suburbia (May 15, 2013)

I've been a life long Nintendo fan (Got an NES in 1986 and every system since) and I'm a little disappointed with the Wii U at the moment, but the Wind Waker remake and the promise of a new Zelda game have me excited.  Not to mention I'll be able to convert my iOS game to be playable on the Wii U, that is truly awesome!


----------



## Rayder (May 15, 2013)

.  See that dot?  That's the smallest violin in the world playing, "My heart bleeds for Nintendo".


----------



## war2thegrave (May 15, 2013)

MrDowner said:


> Speaking of which, why is Nintendo so hostile with third parties?


 
It's not so much hostility as it is apathy.
Nintendo used to sell all of their hardware at a profit, so they really didn't care about 3rd party support.
They made money on their own shit without having to waste time and money maintaining relationships with those 3rd parties.

They may have believed that the 3rd parties would be flocking to nintendo, begging to develop games for the wiiu,
However it's probable that nintendo did not understand how badly a lot of developers got burned making games for the wii and ds.
Most people would call it shovelware, however most of it would pass as nintendo produced software if it had the licensed characters.

Not to mention that nintendo has been known to constrict the distribution of 3rd party software if it would conflict with releases of their own software.


----------



## Haloman800 (May 15, 2013)

Google continues to gain power while Nintendo dies ;-;


----------



## Wolvenreign (May 15, 2013)

As I've said for a while, Nintendo really needs to develop for PC. The extra accessories they're creating and basically selling entire systems on could easily be sold as a PC accessory item at half the cost, and they could develop for Steam, which has advertising every bit as effective as their normal ads.

People get too attached to Nintendo as a console maker, but really, if all it's really worth is first-party software, then just forget it and develop elsewhere. Pride and attachment are stupid things that only get in the way of real technological progress.


----------



## Jan1tor (May 15, 2013)

Oh boy! another doom & gloom thread! At least they put [Rumor] in the title.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 16, 2013)

Wolvenreign said:


> People get too attached to Nintendo as a console maker, but really, if all it's really worth is first-party software, then just forget it and develop elsewhere. Pride and attachment are stupid things that only get in the way of real technological progress.



Not once have I had a Nintendo console break down on me, no matter how much usage they've gotten over the years. I can't say the same for many others. SEGA were pretty close in terms of durability. They make great games and reliable hardware. They don't deserve to just be a software developer. Also, there's more to the amount of polygons on screen or this "technological progress" as you call it. If you were part of the true breed of gamers, you would know this.


----------



## grossaffe (May 16, 2013)

Wolvenreign said:


> As I've said for a while, Nintendo really needs to develop for PC. The extra accessories they're creating and basically selling entire systems on could easily be sold as a PC accessory item at half the cost, and they could develop for Steam, which has advertising every bit as effective as their normal ads.
> 
> People get too attached to Nintendo as a console maker, but really, if all it's really worth is first-party software, then just forget it and develop elsewhere. Pride and attachment are stupid things that only get in the way of real technological progress.


Nope.  Nintendo innovates with their consoles.  Anybody can make an expensive powerful console, but Nintendo disrupts the market with their innovations.  They did it with the NES and their controller that set the standard for what a video game controller should be.  They did it again with the SNES with the basic d-pad + 4 face buttons layout that sony still uses, not to mention the shoulder buttons.  Brought analog joysticks in with the N64.  Gamecube<->GBA connectivity brought new ideas to the table which have been massively improved upon with the Wii U.  And of course the motion control on the Wii that Sony quickly tried to copy with it's Six-axis and then later the Move.

The gaming industry would suffer stagnation if Nintendo were forced out of the hardware business and only developed software.



jacksprat1990 said:


> Not once have I had a Nintendo console break down on me, no matter how much usage they've gotten over the years. I can't say the same for many others. SEGA were pretty close in terms of durability. They make great games and reliable hardware. They don't deserve to just be a software developer. Also, there's more to the amount of polygons on screen or this "technological progress" as you call it. If you were part of the true breed of gamers, you would know this.


That's a good point.  I have an NES, 3 SNESes, an N64, a Gamecube, a Wii, 2 DMGs, a GBC, and a GBA.  Out of all of those, the only trouble I ever had was with the DMG.  I'll give them a pass on that one since it was pretty much uncharted territory back then.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> Nope. Nintendo innovates with their consoles. Anybody can make an expensive powerful console, but Nintendo disrupts the market with their innovations. They did it with the NES and their controller that set the standard for what a video game controller should be. They did it again with the SNES with the basic d-pad + 4 face buttons layout that sony still uses, not to mention the shoulder buttons. Brought analog joysticks in with the N64. Gamecube<->GBA connectivity brought new ideas to the table which have been massively improved upon with the Wii U. And of course the motion control on the Wii that Sony quickly tried to copy with it's Six-axis and then later the Move.
> 
> The gaming industry would suffer stagnation if Nintendo were forced out of the hardware business and only developed software.


 
because nintendo would only come up with those ideas and not anyone else

and because the evolution of games themselves not hardware doesn't matter

kay


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> because nintendo would only come up with those ideas and not anyone else
> 
> and because the evolution of games themselves not hardware doesn't matter
> 
> kay



We're replying to an earlier comment about Nintendo as a console maker...

'Kay.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> We're replying to an earlier comment about Nintendo as a console maker...
> 
> 'Kay.


 
Well it's just the assumption that Nintendo are so genius and so smart that without their Christ-like guidance the games industry would be running around like a dog chasing its tail.

Nintendo are not the Moses of gaming.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well it's just the assumption that Nintendo are so genius and so smart that without their Christ-like guidance the games industry would be running around like a dog chasing its tail.
> 
> Nintendo are not the Moses of gaming.



Without them, the gaming scene may not be so powerful like it is today. We all know the story, they saved gaming. They are better than this fictional 'Moses' character you speak of.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Without them, the gaming scene may not be so powerful like it is today. We all know the story, they saved gaming. They are better than this fictional 'Moses' character you speak of.


 
I almost dropped my Mountain Dew and Doritos that was so funny. The fedora fell off my head.


----------



## Gahars (May 16, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Without them, the gaming scene may not be so powerful like it is today. We all know the story, they saved gaming.


 
Nintendo definitely helped revive the gaming scene, sure, but as the saying goes, "What have you done for me lately?" Just because a person/company/etc. did something great in the past does not make them exempt from criticism later on.



jacksprat1990 said:


> They are better than this fictional 'Moses' character you speak of.


 
This post is so edgy I get cuts just reading it.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

Just because Nintendo helped revitalize the gaming industry like 30 years ago doesn't mean we should praise them. 

I am euphoric not because of some phony console manufacturer's product, but because I am enlightened by my own intelligence.


----------



## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Probably not true, it's not a logical chioce to return it when you can just have it sitting there in case it becomes useful in the future. A rumor about 10 unknown devs from an unknown source? Yeah right.
> And we already covered Avalanche's decision in the previous thread, not being able to contact them is a straight up lie as proven by other devs, even indies. The reason they won't develop Wii U games is that it doesn't make sense financially.
> Why invent excuses? Well, if they were to say the truth people would see them as the bad guy instead of Nintendo. Truth is that Avalanche is right in not developing Wii U software, sales won't pick up thanks to third party ports. This is pretty much BS, devs are most likely sitting there waiting and letting the kits gather dust in case things turn around.
> 
> Getting rid of the devkits would be a nice move though, Nintendo would certainly see the whole "3rd party support" scenario as something a lot more serious if that was the case.


 
Which amuses me. If it's not financially viable to make a game for the Wii U which has been on the market for a while, how does it make sense to devote resources to making games for systems that aren't out yet and therefore the sales of any individual game are going to be lower if it is made for either console. Many people won't be buying a next gen system in the first year that have one now, what makes these folks think that the Wii U is a worse investment? The attach rate of the Wii U is going to spike when Nintendo starts rolling out their first party titles, while Microsoft and Sony fanboys will both be waiting for the same thing that the other system has. No point in making exclusives anymore because the attachment rate of consoles is a lot lower then it used to be in contrast to the costs of making a game. If it's easier to make a game for the Wii U from a hardware aspect, why not do it and port the damn game to other systems later if money is that big of a deal? Oh wait, Microsoft won't allow games on their systems if they have been out on other platforms first, it's in their developer agreement.


----------



## totalnoob617 (May 16, 2013)

extra , exta , NINTENDO COMMITS HARI KARI


----------



## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well it's just the assumption that Nintendo are so genius and so smart that without their Christ-like guidance the games industry would be running around like a dog chasing its tail.
> 
> Nintendo are not the Moses of gaming.


 
Considering Sony and Microsoft have yet to come up with some new form of technology that isn't a attempt to rip off what Nintendo has already done, they deserve the recognition for being innovators. When you push the limits of technology in a home console in terms of it's capability, you are doing something right. Adding more power to a system can only get you so far and the quick popularity of the Wii and DS can attest to that.


----------



## SirAileron (May 16, 2013)

It's rather difficult to get excited for Microsoft/Sony console releases, personally. Though I'd attribute this to having a PC, which has negated about 95% of any reason to get those systems. Hell, as much as I enjoyed playing Halo, I can't degrade myself by playing a FPS title on a controller anymore, seeing as this isn't the 90s anymore. A whole bunch of these AAA game series aren't exactly awe-inspiring, either. Sure, Assassin's Creed, Halo, CoD, and half the other shit out there sells systems, effectively, though even with those titles, I can't rightly feel excited.

Out of the big money titles I do enjoy, it's practically Nintendo exclusive, which is lame. I've got a shit-ton of indie titles on Steam, and more and more I'm seeing so much more enjoyment out of their work than anything else. Who knows, maybe it's because they're not entirely focused on making money that they'll try and release the best work they can on whatever platform they have available to them. As much as I want to see what interesting things get done with Wii U's gamepad, I haven't seen a single big name out there that's got ideas for it, and any indie groups that may have clues as to how to make something awesome simply don't have the money for it.

So I'm personally stuck with a handful of titles for the Wii U that I'm assuredly going to play to death over and over, and pretty much everything else will sit on the PC. The PS4 is going to be a PC, that much was made clear, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Microsoft console is also basically a PC. They won't be as powerful as my machine, but that's alright. Maybe with "relatively current-gen" technology, the PC industry will finally pull ahead after 6 goddamn years of stagnation where my ancient machine still beats the shit out of every game that comes across it.

The only good thing to come out of the PS3/360 generation has been its controllers, all of which I hook up to my PC. Because Fez actually works without deleting your goddamn save files on PC (as opposed to the 360 version), and I can play Street Fighter with any controller I damn well please to use. I've met weird alien creatures that like the 360 controller for Street Fighter over the PS3 controller or arcade stick, so there's fun for everyone. Shit, I'm happy as hell that Skullgirls is getting a PC release, for that matter.

tl;dr: PS3/360 being PC-like makes having a PC render them practically undesirable, AAA games get more credit than people should give them, Wii U does things I can't do on a PC. Hope it succeeds. If not, I'll be one of the 5 Wii U owners on the planet that actually enjoys the system because Nintendo exclusives still make me warm 'n fuzzy on the inside.


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## the_randomizer (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I almost dropped my Mountain Dew and Doritos that was so funny. The fedora fell off my head.


 
You have a fedora, and no one told me!? I must have it!


----------



## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> Considering Sony and Microsoft have yet to come up with some new form of technology that isn't a attempt to rip off what Nintendo has already done, they deserve the recognition for being innovators. When you push the limits of technology in a home console in terms of it's capability, you are doing something right. Adding more power to a system can only get you so far and the quick popularity of the Wii and DS can attest to that.


Please Explain to me how the HELL Sony and Microsoft rip off Nintendo Consoles. 



If anything, Nintendo has learned a thing or two from Microsoft and Sony here, as they have had to innovate to compete against those consoles, and most of their innovations take a page from the Microsoft/Sony ideas.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> Considering Sony and Microsoft have yet to come up with some new form of technology that isn't a attempt to rip off what Nintendo has already done, they deserve the recognition for being innovators. When you push the limits of technology in a home console in terms of it's capability, you are doing something right. Adding more power to a system can only get you so far and the quick popularity of the Wii and DS can attest to that.


 
Microsoft came up with fucking Windows. Top that.

EDIT: OH YEAH THE FUCKING KINECT SAYS HELLO.


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## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Microsoft came up with fucking Windows. Top that.
> 
> EDIT: OH YEAH THE FUCKING KINECT SAYS HELLO.


 
Motion controls are motion controls. M$ saw the hype and tried to cash in on what Nintendo did, too bad all the Kinect games are garbage mini game collections and shovelware while Nintendo at least tried to make some quality games using the motion controls. Nothing dumber then jumping around in front of your TV like tool as well.



chavosaur said:


> Please Explain to me how the HELL Sony and Microsoft rip off Nintendo Consoles.
> 
> 
> 
> If anything, Nintendo has learned a thing or two from Microsoft and Sony here, as they have had to innovate to compete against those consoles, and most of their innovations take a page from the Microsoft/Sony ideas.


 
Oh please, don't even fucking try to act like Sony and Microsoft have tried to innovate anything when it comes to control technology and if Nintendo made consoles with power and nothing else, they would be out of business, and you have to be fucking stupid to believe that they would still be around if they didn't innovate. Nintendo would have pulled a Sega after the Gamecube for crying out loud, if all they did was go for performance over advancing the gaming experience rather then just the graphics. Sony and M$ have used every idea Nintendo has ever come up with in terms of developing controllers.


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## Gahars (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> Motion controls are motion controls. M$ saw the hype and tried to cash in on what Nintendo did, too bad all the Kinect games are garbage mini game collections and shovelware while Nintendo at least tried to make some quality games using the motion controls. Nothing dumber then jumping around in front of your TV like tool as well.


 






If we were at the Olympics, you'd be taking home the gold for mental gymnastics.


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## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> Motion controls are motion controls. M$ saw the hype and tried to cash in on what Nintendo did, too bad all the Kinect games are garbage mini game collections and shovelware while Nintendo at least tried to make some quality games using the motion controls. Nothing dumber then jumping around in front of your TV like tool as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, don't even fucking try to act like Sony and Microsoft have tried to innovate anything when it comes to control technology and if Nintendo made consoles with power and nothing else, they would be out of business, and you have to be fucking stupid to believe that they would still be around if they didn't innovate. Nintendo would have pulled a Sega after the Gamecube for crying out loud, if all they did was go for performance over advancing the gaming experience rather then just the graphics. Sony and M$ have used every idea Nintendo has ever come up with in terms of developing controllers.


Because... The Sony DualShock controller didn't introduce dual analogue which s the standard for nearly all controllers today. 
Or they certainly didn't introduce rumble. 
And Oh My, Microsoft just HAD to rip off Motion control. Oh wait... motion control without controllers?! Why that sounds very NEW TO ME! 
I get that you're reaching here, but try just a tad harder to support your claims rather the. Playing the blame/steal game.


----------



## rizzod (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I almost dropped my Mountain Dew and Doritos that was so funny. The fedora fell off my head.


 
May I join you?


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## grossaffe (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> Mind actually trying to argue instead of going for the meme copout? Or is it that hard to justify a false claim?


 I think I'll stick with the meme, since facts tend to be ignored.


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## joelv6 (May 16, 2013)

they are just haters, plain and simple


----------



## codezer0 (May 16, 2013)

Well, considering *none* of the first-party games from Nintendo out for the WiiU are of any relevance or appeal to me, and that the only third-party game that I would consider picking up a WiiU for is ZombiU, that's not nearly enough for me to consider a WiiU even if I had the finances to go buy one. Almost every other third party game that would be good is something I played to death on another platform, and with no justifiable reasons to replay on the new hardware.

Nintendo choosing not to even show up for E3 this year _will_ be perceived as a sign of weakness. And Nintendo has had a reputation of treating third party developers and publishers equally poorly. Lest we forget the fiasco of where Nintendo flat out refused Free Radical access to the netcode for the GameCube version of TimeSplitters to enable Online or even LAN multiplayer till like a week before it was getting pressed to discs for retail.

Simple matter is I don't have a big enough reason to point to and go "THAT'S WHY I WANT A WIIU!" like I did with the Wii and GameCube. Even less until the system itself is hacked.

That said, I _want_ Nintendo to succeed. Given the always-online requirements that are/were touted for the PS4 and Xbox, and the fact that Nintendo chose not to attempt actively blocking used games, will be solid positives in their regard compared to Microsoft and Sony. There are good things about the console, and I will admit that readily. I'm just still waiting on some games worthy of me going *I WANT THAT!*


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## hhs (May 16, 2013)

Nintendo isn't doomed, I would use such inflammatory language. But they aren't going to be making off with their usual successes even with their first party launches. It's bad that the system is likely to be less powerful than the others and it's worse that it didn't take advantage of it's launch lead. Waiting for the other systems to launch before getting Smash and Zelda out is like waiting until your party loses the house majority before putting forward any bills. Forget about momentum at that point. The best you can hope for is a long hard slog through mediocrity.


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## Eerpow (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> Because... The Sony DualShock controller didn't introduce dual analogue which s the standard for nearly all controllers today.
> Or they certainly didn't introduce rumble.
> And Oh My, Microsoft just HAD to rip off Motion control. Oh wait... motion control without controllers?! Why that sounds very NEW TO ME!
> I get that you're reaching here, but try just a tad harder to support your claims rather the. Playing the blame/steal game.
> ...


It's not ripping off, it's a adapting to things that are new standards in the industry. Both Sony and Nintendo had brought new things to the industry in terms of setting new standards, donno about xbox though, but that's easily explained with how little time MS has been in the console gaming industry compared to Sony and Nintendo. That said, they do have a excellent controller design.

Wii was based on eyetoy
Rumble+analog 360 movement first appeared on the N64
Dual analog -> PSX
clickable sticks-> PSX
Dpad -> Game & Watch
Shoulder buttons on a controller -> SNES
Diamond shaped 4 button layout-> SNES

Most things that are standard today came from either Nintendo or Sega, Sony only started when Nintendo didn't want to have an optical media addon for the SNES anymore.
There's nothing wrong implementing this stuff, how else would the industry move forwards? Nintendo put analog shoulder buttons after the Dreamcast, and clickable sticks after Sony and MS.
The problem with people is that when Nintendo does it, it's okay, but when Sony does it it's ripping off apparently. wtf?!


----------



## Bobbybangin (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> Please Explain to me how the HELL Sony and Microsoft rip off Nintendo Consoles.
> 
> 
> 
> If anything, Nintendo has learned a thing or two from Microsoft and Sony here, as they have had to innovate to compete against those consoles, and most of their innovations take a page from the Microsoft/Sony ideas.


 
Lol...WOW! Did you really just say that? How old are you and how long have you been gaming? Do you even know how $ony got their start? Nintendo hired them to develop a CD-ROM console for them. Instead, $ony fled with the know how they learned in their time at Nintendo and released the Playstation. Nintendo was forced to release the Super Nintendo. Now, $ony fanboys and $ony's "wiki" try to paint a brighter picture of what happened, but if you were keeping up with it back then everybody knew what happened. Not this $ony and $ony fanboys, who weren't even born yet, revisionist history that they've since made up. Just look at the Playstation remote all the way to the current PS4 remote, it's still the same simple layout of the Super Nintendo controller...with an extra bumper added. Nintendo came out with the camera for the Game Boy before $ony had their "eye toy". Then there's the motion controller, navi remote, and camera for the PS3. That obviously was stolen from the Wii's motion control ideas. $ony and tried to incorporate Super Smash Brothers into their repertoir with their failure titled "Playstation All-Stars". That was also a blatant rip-off. Where do you think $ony got their PSN idea from? Couldn't have been the Dreamcast or Xbox Live could it? Speaking of the Mi¢rosoft, it's obvious they got their idea of LIVE from the Dreamcast and you should compare the Xbox controller to the Dreamcast's coontroller. Just add a joystick and take away the VMU and Viola! you've now got an Xbox remote. 

You take away all those from those systems and what innovations are you left with? All $ony and Mi¢rosoft has ever done is taken other companies innovations and packaged them with high end specs. For some reason everybody looks over those facts and is wooed like woman by them.


----------



## war2thegrave (May 16, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> Nope. Nintendo innovates with their consoles. Anybody can make an expensive powerful console, but Nintendo disrupts the market with their innovations. They did it with the NES and their controller that set the standard for what a video game controller should be. They did it again with the SNES with the basic d-pad + 4 face buttons layout that sony still uses, not to mention the shoulder buttons. Brought analog joysticks in with the N64. Gamecube<->GBA connectivity brought new ideas to the table which have been massively improved upon with the Wii U. And of course the motion control on the Wii that Sony quickly tried to copy with it's Six-axis and then later the Move.
> 
> The gaming industry would suffer stagnation if Nintendo were forced out of the hardware business and only developed software.
> 
> ...


 
Sure, let's bring up some of those "innovations".



grossaffe said:


> Nope. Nintendo innovates with their consoles. Brought analog joysticks in with the N64.


 

Analog joysticks were used on both the vectrex and atari 5200 way back in 1982.



grossaffe said:


> Nope. Nintendo innovates with their consoles. Gamecube<->GBA connectivity brought new ideas to the table which have been massively improved upon with the Wii U


1999
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=BE&v=A9iuxv3skO0






grossaffe said:


> Nope. Nintendo innovates with their consoles. And of course the motion control on the Wii that Sony quickly tried to copy with it's Six-axis and then later the Move.


 
In addition to the numerous third party peripherals released from the early 90's on for consoles and pc's that had the same basic idea, there was this thing that came out in 2004.













Hey look. It's wii sports!


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## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> Because... The Sony DualShock controller didn't introduce dual analogue which s the standard for nearly all controllers today.
> Or they certainly didn't introduce rumble.
> And Oh My, Microsoft just HAD to rip off Motion control. Oh wait... motion control without controllers?! Why that sounds very NEW TO ME!
> I get that you're reaching here, but try just a tad harder to support your claims rather the. Playing the blame/steal game.


 
The N64 had rumble and an analog control stick first, and arcades were using multiple joysticks back in the 80's, don't act like Sony came up with that idea so easily. Oh and yes, a gesture based camera is really innovative, wasn't that the whole purpose of the camera for the PS2 originally?


----------



## JoostinOnline (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> Oh wait... motion control without controllers?! Why that sounds very NEW TO ME!


Then you need to get out more, as that was like 7 year old technology.

Nothing is completely original these days, people need to accept that.  I could point at the lights in my Wii U Gamepad and say "Dude, Nintendo totally ripped that off of Thomas Edison!"


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> The N64 had rumble and an analog control stick first, and arcades were using multiple joysticks back in the 80's, don't act like Sony came up with that idea so easily. Oh and yes, a gesture based camera is really innovative, wasn't that the whole purpose of the camera for the PS2 originally?


 
So Sony innovated with cameras in gaming then?

Either way to say the Kinect is "not innovative" because it's "a motion control peripheral" (despite the fact how it works and how the Wii works are miles apart) and "has bad games" (because the Wii didn't have bad motion controlled games right guys?) is an absolute joke.

I'm still going to hold up my point that Microsoft is a pretty innovative company because they most likely made the fucking operating system you're currently using.


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## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

Bobbybangin said:


> snippy~


Oh my, where to begin here... 
"Development of the format started in 1988, when Nintendo signed a deal with Sony to produce a CD-ROM add-on for the SNES. After several years of development, Sony introduced a standalone console at 1991's summer Consumer Electronics Show called the "Play Station." The system was to be compatible with existing SNES titles as well as titles released for the SNES-CD format. However, due to licensing disagreements with Sony, Nintendo announced that it had formed an alliance with Sony's rival Philips to produce the SNES-CD add-on.

The partnership with Philips did not produce a CD add-on for the SNES. Eventually Sony dropped its partnership with Nintendo and developed its own console independently, which resulted in the release of the original PlayStation, a chief competitor of the SNES's cartridge-based successor, the Nintendo 64."


That's from a Nintendo wiki, although the info will almost always be the same. Sony didn't "FLEE AND STEAL NINTENDOS GLORIOUS IDEAS DOSE BASTARDS!"
They were the ones developing the freaking idea in the first place to HELP Nintendo, and when Nintendo didn't like everything about it, they packed up and ran off to Philips to finish the job. 
And we all know how that turned out, As Foxi has been so kind to prove to us. 
Everything else you say has been discussed over and over agin throughout the thread, a simple look back will show your not really thinking straight here. 

And for the love of GOD let's not get started with the freaking SONY ALL STARTS IS RIP OFF OF SMASH BROS Debacle again. 
Because no Franchise has certainly included their characters in a free for all fighting game right?
Ever heard of Cartoon Network Punchtime Explosion?
Watch a video of it, and let me know how much it's like smash bros compared to PASBR. You'll see the enormous differences.



DSGamer64 said:


> The N64 had rumble and an analog control stick first, and arcades were using multiple joysticks back in the 80's, don't act like Sony came up with that idea so easily. Oh and yes, a gesture based camera is really innovative, wasn't that the whole purpose of the camera for the PS2 originally?



So... You're telling me that Sony may have based its ideas of of Arcade machines just like nearly all video game companies did at the start of consoles lifetimes?!
And yet, Nintendo must have based every idea off the first random thing that popped into their head without any influence from arcade machines, or Atari... All innovation and ideas spread from learning from other people. Taking tech, an improving upon it.
There's a huge difference between blatantly copying, and massively improving. Nintendo is as much an innovator as Sony and MS are whether you believe so or not. 
To say that Nintendo has Created every single game idea and then Sony and Ms have just been blatantly ripping off is a total Joke. Even Nintendo has INNOVATED or RIPPED OFF. Just not with as much success as you'd like them to have. 

Here's the funniest part. You continue to say that MS AND SONY have done nothing but copy Nintendo. 
Take a look at this. 




Now peek at this




Must be a blatant ripoff in your eyes Amirite????


----------



## rizzod (May 16, 2013)

Totally ripped off Dreamcast. Oh Wait no, that's the Wii U's sales LOL!


----------



## the_randomizer (May 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Microsoft came up with fucking Windows. Top that.
> 
> EDIT: OH YEAH THE FUCKING KINECT SAYS HELLO.


 
People cared about and used the KINECT?



Spoiler



Windows 7 is better than Windows Vista and 8 combined TROLOLOLO


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## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> People cared about and used the KINECT?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


People cared so much that it became one of the fastest selling electronic devices/peripherals ever ._.
It holds a Guinness World Record for Christs sake, it sold 8 MILLION units in its first 60 days on the market.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinect


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## the_randomizer (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> People cared so much that it became one of the fastest selling electronic devices/peripherals ever ._.
> It holds a Guinness World Record for Christs sake, it sold 8 MILLION units in its first 60 days on the market.


 
*Edit: Deleted*


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## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Can I take a look at your sarcasm detector? I think it's broken.
> 
> No sh*t Sherlock. Just because people bought it doesn't mean they still use it.



People could say the exact same thing about every console they bought, what the HELL kind of logic is that?
This forum cares so much about its Nintendo sales, but when it comes to other peripherals and consoles sales, "OH WELL DAT DON'T MEAN DEY STILL USE IT" ,"OH LOOK HOW LOW DAT IS COMPARED TO NINTY HUEHUEHUE"


----------



## the_randomizer (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> People could say the exact same thing about every console they bought, what the HELL kind of logic is that?
> This forum cares so much about its Nintendo sales, but when it comes to other peripherals and consoles sales, "OH WELL DAT DON'T MEAN DEY STILL USE IT" ,"OH LOOK HOW LOW DAT IS COMPARED TO NINTY HUEHUEHUE"


 
*Edit: Removed*


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## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Wow, someone had a bad day. You need to grab a Snickers bar, it makes the world a better place.


And instead of accepting the bad argument , we go back to the classic "WELP, HE'S MAD BETTER TELL HIM HE'S MAD SO HE WON'T CALL ME OUT ON MY BS ANYMORE"
There's a huge difference between Being "MAD BRO" and just calling people out on stuff that they say, and watching them defend themselves with classic Memes and Accusations.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> And instead of accepting the bad argument , we go back to the classic "WELP, HE'S MAD BETTER TELL HIM HE'S MAD SO HE WON'T CALL ME OUT ON MY BS ANYMORE"
> There's a huge difference between Being "MAD BRO" and just calling people out on stuff that they say, and watching them defend themselves with classic Memes and Accusations.


 
*Edit: Removed*


----------



## Gahars (May 16, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Wow, and I can just feel the abundance of love emanating from this thread! It's so profound that I'm just going to do something productive like *gasp* going outside. I just LOVE logical fallacies.
> 
> 
> *Arugmentum ad hominem*


 
Dude, you really don't know what you're talking about it here, and it's obvious.

It's time to stop posting.


----------



## emigre (May 16, 2013)

I love how irrationally aggressive the_randomizer and DSgamer64 get when it comes to these threads. The amount of seeth is quite amazing.


----------



## rizzod (May 16, 2013)

Do us a favor, stop posting in this thread with your blind fanboyism and just walk away slowly... or do I have to pull this one out of the bin again?


----------



## jacksprat1990 (May 16, 2013)

Nothing up with it. It shows he's passionate about what he believes in. You all stick together and bash Ninty as much as you want anyway, the WiiU is going to be fine. I'll see you in a few years time. Ba ba for now.


----------



## RchUncleSkeleton (May 16, 2013)

I get the feeling that these Devs are confused as how to use the hardware and are therefore claiming it's underpowered. Yeah the processor may not be 3.2ghz 8 core monster but it doesn't have to be, it's a gaming console which needs to have games made for it, not made for other beasts and then ported. I kinda get the feeling this is the same thing that happened to the Saturn as no one knew how to program for it.


----------



## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> People could say the exact same thing about every console they bought, what the HELL kind of logic is that?
> This forum cares so much about its Nintendo sales, but when it comes to other peripherals and consoles sales, "OH WELL DAT DON'T MEAN DEY STILL USE IT" ,"OH LOOK HOW LOW DAT IS COMPARED TO NINTY HUEHUEHUE"


 
I think the point is that the Kinect, unlike the Wii motion controller, or even Playstation Move, while having a rather strong sales yield, it hasn't been truly successful as a controller peripheral. Why? Because it's an optional buy, sure it may have sold well, but look at how many Wii controllers Nintendo sold, both with the system and individually, and was still adopted by the developers because they had no choice. And really, that is what it boils down to, since the Kinect is optional, most games don't use it.



RchUncleSkeleton said:


> I get the feeling that these Devs are confused as how to use the hardware and are therefore claiming it's underpowered. Yeah the processor may not be 3.2ghz 8 core monster but it doesn't have to be, it's a gaming console which needs to have games made for it, not made for other beasts and then ported. I kinda get the feeling this is the same thing that happened to the Saturn as no one knew how to program for it.


AMD has already proven that more cores =/= better performance. Hell, you could have a 4.5 Ghz clocked dual core that would outperform a 3.2 Ghz quad core in gaming, because games are still generally single threaded applications. IF the rumored specs are true, the Wii U's processor is more then enough, if you program the game to support multithreading. Even PC games are only using dual core, quad core is almost a wasted technology right now unless you are doing video editing and other advanced computing.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 16, 2013)

[RUMOR] PS4 to feature head-tracking and tools to measure the alcohol in users' blood! Local authorities to use as a means of dealing with DUIs!


----------



## chavosaur (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> I think the point is that the Kinect, unlike the Wii motion controller, or even Playstation Move, while having a rather strong sales yield, it hasn't been truly successful as a controller peripheral. Why? Because it's an optional buy, sure it may have sold well, but look at how many Wii controllers Nintendo sold, both with the system and individually, and was still adopted by the developers because they had no choice. And really, that is what it boils down to, since the Kinect is optional, most games don't use it.


But that doesn't really make a good analogy, since you literally had to have a wii remote to play your wii. You don't need a kinect to play an Xbox, but it still sold like hotcakes. 
The wii remote was required to even function the wii, The kinect was solely an entertainment peripheral~ And it really does get used a lot more then people may think. Many dance studios and gyms actually use kinects for just dance or Zumba fitness. It's a fun party peripheral.


----------



## emigre (May 16, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Nothing up with it. It shows he's passionate about what he believes in. You all stick together and bash Ninty as much as you want anyway, the WiiU is going to be fine. I'll see you in a few years time. Ba ba for now.


 
Passionate? Passion isn't becoming aggressive and hurling personal insults at other people. He admitted it himself that he's far from a good person to debate with after his breakdown when the US presidential elections were announced. He has an issue when people hold a contrary opinion to him. Unlike others he crosses a line into insulting or throwing around shit memes because he's unable to debate in a civil manner (or at least angry civil manner in the case of Guild McVitaist). I don't mean for this to be personal attack but he does it constantly and to label it as passion is wrong. If anything its more blind loyalty than anything.


----------



## grossaffe (May 16, 2013)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> I get the feeling that these Devs are confused as how to use the hardware and are therefore claiming it's underpowered. Yeah the processor may not be 3.2ghz 8 core monster but it doesn't have to be, it's a gaming console which needs to have games made for it, not made for other beasts and then ported. I kinda get the feeling this is the same thing that happened to the Saturn as no one knew how to program for it.


I would not be surprised at all if that were the case.   Developers need to learn to harness the power of GPGPU.  Gone are the days of loading up all your processing needs on the CPU.


----------



## codezer0 (May 16, 2013)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> I get the feeling that these Devs are confused as how to use the hardware and are therefore claiming it's underpowered. Yeah the processor may not be 3.2ghz 8 core monster but it doesn't have to be, it's a gaming console which needs to have games made for it, not made for other beasts and then ported. I kinda get the feeling this is the same thing that happened to the Saturn as no one knew how to program for it.


More like it is at least powerful enough to handle the expected level of detail from _this_ generation's class of high-end console gaming. But that's just it... is it enough to hold up when compared to its competitors for the _next gen console gaming_? That's the question that comes up.

The Wii was barely more powerful than the original Xbox 1 compared to the prior gen, but because it had such mass market appeal, there was enough incentive for devs to pick up a Wii kit and at least _try_ to adapt their games to work on the platform. But as we have seen with marquee titles, most simply stopped bothering to make it for Nintendo when it was clear that it would have to be stripped or underpowered to do so, and look like ass. If anything, I'm surprised that I find myself even able to tolerate playing MW3 on the Wii, but t hat's more because the Wii has a one-button solution to mute everyone, so I don't have to hear all the stupid brats and children that have no business playing a Mature-rated game online.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 16, 2013)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> I get the feeling that these Devs are confused as how to use the hardware and are therefore claiming it's underpowered. Yeah the processor may not be 3.2ghz 8 core monster but it doesn't have to be, it's a gaming console which needs to have games made for it, not made for other beasts and then ported. I kinda get the feeling this is the same thing that happened to the Saturn as no one knew how to program for it.



I am not sure a Saturn analogy is all that suitable -- the Saturn was still ASM and really know the hardware country where here I reckon you should be able to kick an awful lot to standard libs or basic maths afforded by high level programming languages.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (May 16, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> I am not sure a Saturn analogy is all that suitable -- the Saturn was still ASM and really know the hardware country where here I reckon you should be able to kick an awful lot to standard libs or basic maths afforded by high level programming languages.


The Saturn analogy was meant in general...The Saturn had two processors, which most devs didn't know what to do with. The Wii U pushes most processes to the GPGPU instead of the CPU which I'm guessing most devs don't know what to do with.


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## jacksprat1990 (May 16, 2013)

emigre said:


> Passionate? Passion isn't becoming aggressive and hurling personal insults at other people. He admitted it himself that he's far from a good person to debate with after his breakdown when the US presidential elections were announced. He has an issue when people hold a contrary opinion to him. Unlike others he crosses a line into insulting or throwing around shit memes because he's unable to debate in a civil manner (or at least angry civil manner in the case of Guild McVitaist). I don't mean for this to be personal attack but he does it constantly and to label it as passion is wrong. If anything its more blind loyalty than anything.



Holding something in such high regard as to defend it when someone else holds an opposite opinion. I'm not saying he/she right or wrong but it is most definitely a sign of passion.


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## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> The Saturn analogy was meant in general...The Saturn had two processors, which most devs didn't know what to do with. The Wii U pushes most processes to the GPGPU instead of the CPU which I'm guessing most devs don't know what to do with.


 
That has to do with the fact that they have become comfortable designing their games for the 360 and PS3. See, for those consoles, their graphics cards stopped being capable of playing new games on their own without modified resolutions in order to stay acceptable at 1920x1080 on your TV, a few years ago and if you look at things like the Crysis 3 dev log, the 360 has hit it's maximum capability on both the CPU and GPU side. While the Wii U is running at a lower clock speed then the competition, the graphics card more then makes up for it's slower CPU speed. The thing is that developers have yet to shift their developing style away from the mindset that they absolutely HAVE to overload the CPU to run a game on the Wii U, despite the fact that it's already been proven that the Wii U has a graphics card capable of modern graphics features and has higher clock speeds and more memory to boot.



emigre said:


> I love how irrationally aggressive the_randomizer and DSgamer64 get when it comes to these threads. The amount of seeth is quite amazing.


 
And I love how people like you come on here and act like Microsoft and Sony are actually capable of innovating in the gaming business and then bash people who want to have a discussion, just because of the way they choose to speak.


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## emigre (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> And I love how people like you come on here and act like Microsoft and Sony are actually capable of innovating in the gaming business and then bash people who want to have a discussion, just because of the way they choose to speak.


 
See what I mean?


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## jacksprat1990 (May 17, 2013)

A little bit. They don't really know how to innovate but I wouldn't say they are incapable of innovating.


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## chavosaur (May 17, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> And I love how people like you come on here and act like Microsoft and Sony are actually capable of innovating in the gaming business and then bash people who want to have a discussion, just because of the way they choose to speak.


But you don't discuss. Most of the people that have been doing the Nintendo fighting haven't even been bringing up valid arguments. They blindly come in, announce what they believe, and refuse to accept any other answers or arguments. 
That's not a discussion. 
It's just really stupid.


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## the_randomizer (May 17, 2013)

Debating? In a civil manner? ON THE INTERNET? Wow, that's a novel idea. Let me know when that happens when it comes to discussing various videogame companies.

Could someone give an example on how I'm supposed to properly *ahem* debate?


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## DSGamer64 (May 17, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> A little bit. They don't really know how to innovate but I wouldn't say they are incapable of innovating.


 
Maybe not completely, but most of the ideas either company has ever come up with were spun from already existing pieces of technology. People who say dual shock was innovative, is it hard to put 1+1 together? Kinect advanced gesture interfacing by removing the buttons, which is a big step towards ultimately having hands free gaming, however creatively no developer has laid the framework for advance control patterns and input types to make a full blown game with environmental interaction and an overall authentic gaming experience. Kinect might be innovative, but Sony hasn't exactly been clever over the years.


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## XDel (May 17, 2013)

I don't mind. I only buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo's games anyhow. Should a third party create something fun as well, then great, more for me!
 Just give me a new Mario, Metroid, Zelda and I'm happy.


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## rizzod (May 17, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Debating? In a civil manner? ON THE INTERNET? Wow, that's a novel idea. Let me know when that happens when it comes to discussing various videogame companies.
> 
> Could someone give an example on how I'm supposed to properly *ahem* debate?


 
No. This is a discussion forum, not a debate topic. Stop being stubborn and immature and people will do the same to you.


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## Foxi4 (May 17, 2013)

I was looking for a good place to share this:







Mission Complete.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 17, 2013)

I may have said this before so pardon me being a broken record but innovation is not asspulling new ideas and then saying they're innovative. Innovation starts with shotgunning ideas, finding one that sticks, then it is elaborated on. I think that's the issue with Nintendo's "innovation". They were on to something with motion controls, enough so that their competition scrambled to make a competitor motion control product, but they almost immediately ditched it with the Wii U. Their motion control wasn't perfect either, even with the WM+, and I feel a second generation could bring vast improvements and help lessen (if not eliminate) the gap between technical issues of motion controls and application of motion controls.

On the other hand Sony took the idea and improved up on with the Move. It appears the Move will play some part in the future (as evidenced in their PS4 reveal) so who knows.

Microsoft went a completely different way with motion controls but it paid off, it's a success now and I expect to see Microsoft improve on it in the future, if not their competition.

The most innovative technologies in our world weren't made from one company pulling the idea out randomly and it staying that way. No, an idea is brought forth and then it is improved upon, both by the creator and the competition. Welcome to capitalism folks. It's one of the perks to it, having competition breed a better product. So if Sony copies Nintendo and does a better job than Nintendo, you should praise them. They one upped Nintendo, now Nintendo has to breed a better product to compete. The Nintendo camp gets a better product and the Sony camp gets a better product. Everyone wins.

The bicycle was not made in its current form today. It was the product of one basic ideas, self powered motion on two wheels, going through a thousand different minds and being changed a bit on the way of each. It was not one man's idea who made it perfect the first time. Same goes with the car, the computer, every piece of technology that has changed the world significantly.

So boohoo if your "pride" is hurt because Sony makes a competitor device similar to Nintendo, you really should think it's for the better because both camps get a good product and they compete to make better products for both camps. If you're so snooty and isolationist to not want this for the reason of "m-muh nintendo" then you're a terrible, selfish person with a poor understanding of innovation and economics.


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## war2thegrave (May 17, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Nothing up with it. It shows he's passionate about what he believes in. You all stick together and bash Ninty as much as you want anyway, the WiiU is going to be fine. I'll see you in a few years time. Ba ba for now.


 
There is a big difference between being passionate and towing the corporate line.
If someone is truly passionate about what they believe, then it would be acceptable to think
that they would do some research... any research into the thing that they hold to such high regard.
Instead, what is happening is that people are sucking the corporate propaganda teat and sticking
their fingers in their ears while loudly singing la-la-la-la repeatedly when facts are presented which
contradict the delusion that they have built for themselves.

It is a corporation, not a spouse or a god.
Nintendo is not going to suck you off, or grant you eternal bliss in the afterlife
if you defend them enough.


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## jacksprat1990 (May 17, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> It is a corporation, not a spouse or a god.
> Nintendo is not going to suck you off, or grant you eternal bliss in the afterlife
> if you defend them enough.



I wish they would. I've praised their name enough.


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## the_randomizer (May 17, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> There is a big difference between being passionate and towing the corporate line.
> If someone is truly passionate about what they believe, then it would be acceptable to think
> that they would do some research... any research into the thing that they hold to such high regard.
> Instead, what is happening is that people are sucking the corporate propaganda teat and sticking
> ...


 
The same could be said of Sony and Microsoft; they're not gods either.


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## war2thegrave (May 17, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> The same could be said of Sony and Microsoft; they're not gods either.


True, however this is a nintendo thread. there is no reason to bring up either sony, or microsoft.

Trying to deflect discussion of nintendo's shortcomings by exclaiming that "sony/microsoft are way worse because (insert argument)!" will not change the discussion from the subject that you are insecure about.
It will instead make the well deserved backlash that nintendo has comming to them that much worse.


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## the_randomizer (May 17, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> True, however this is a nintendo thread. there is no reason to bring up either sony, or microsoft.
> 
> Trying to deflect discussion of nintendo's shortcomings by exclaiming that "sony/microsoft are way worse because (insert argument)!" will not change the discussion from the subject that you are insecure about.
> It will instead make the well deserved backlash that nintendo has comming to them that much worse.


 
I won't deny that I've acted like a dick and it's something I struggle with. Despite Nintendo's shortcomings, that shouldn't mean they will suddenly die ignominiously, nor will the Wii U. I wish people would at least wait till E3 before making five million doomsayer threads based on groundless rumors. Maybe, just maybe, we (myself included) would be more civil about it. My guess is that by that time, we'll know if more third parties will back the system up, the sales will increase, then we can start creating rumor threads. Rumors are just that, rumors. Nothing more, nothing less. At least the comments haven't reached IGN levels yet. I'll curl up in a fetal position if it ever does.


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## Devin (May 17, 2013)

Dodododododododo.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-u-dev-kit-for-sale-ebay.348042/


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## kai445 (May 17, 2013)

"EA stops making games for the Wii U"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22565945

Wii U is a fail, Nintendo needs to rethink their strategy for the future.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 17, 2013)

Devin said:


> Dodododododododo.
> 
> http://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-u-dev-kit-for-sale-ebay.348042/


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ent-kit-sells-for-thousands-of-pounds-on-ebay
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170674509885

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Devin (May 17, 2013)

soulx said:


> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ent-kit-sells-for-thousands-of-pounds-on-ebay
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170674509885
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


 
Confirmed;

Sega's lost interest in the Durango.
Level 5 returning 3DS dev units.

¯\_($-$)_/¯


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## the_randomizer (May 17, 2013)

Eurogamer as a source 

I don't know why I was getting so pissed earlier. This is quite entertaining.


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## war2thegrave (May 17, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> I won't deny that I've acted like a dick and it's something I struggle with. Despite Nintendo's shortcomings, that shouldn't mean they will suddenly die ignominiously, nor will the Wii U. I wish people would at least wait till E3 before making five million doomsayer threads based on groundless rumors. Maybe, just maybe, we (myself included) would be more civil about it. My guess is that by that time, we'll know if more third parties will back the system up, the sales will increase, then we can start creating rumor threads. Rumors are just that, rumors. Nothing more, nothing less. At least the comments haven't reached IGN levels yet. I'll curl up in a fetal position if it ever does.


 
Well, Even if the events which were prophesied do in fact transpire. nintendo is not likely to just kill it.
They will support it  at least as much as they had the gamecube.
Or possibly as much as sega supported the saturn,


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## the_randomizer (May 17, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> Well, Even if the events which were prophesied do in fact transpire. nintendo is not likely to just kill it.
> They will support it at least as much as they had the gamecube.
> Or possibly as much as sega supported the saturn,


 
Only time will tell. We should at least wait a bit before we pass judgment on it, that's how I feel anyway.


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## Videomanman87 (May 18, 2013)

Something I don't think has been mentioned in this entire thread: It is probably in the contract they sign.  Even if the kit was free, I am certain they sign a non-disclosure agreement.  And I suspect if they don't use the kit, they have to give it back.  Nintendo is not about to let the kits float around, not at this point in the game.  I saw the one offered on ebay, I am sure that 1. it will be pulled before the auction completes and 2. Nintendo will be tracing its serial numbers.  Remember Nintendo knows where EACH of those kits go and have a legal recourse if they so choose.  And for a console that is not even a year old, you can bet they are going to choose to protect it any way they can.

Also keep in mind after singing a non-disclosure agreement, I certainly wouldn't want to take the risk of this tech falling into someone else's hands and have Nintendo come after me, if I wasn't using it anyway.  Much easier just to say "here take this back, I don't want to take responsibility for having this".  And even if it is not in the agreement, again it is simply not worth keeping and possibly loosing track of it.  Then have the kit show up on ebay and Nintendo's lawyers on your doorstep.


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## Bobbybangin (May 18, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> you'd like them to have.
> 
> Here's the funniest part. You continue to say that MS AND SONY have done nothing but copy Nintendo.
> Take a look at this.
> ...



That post is worse than your first. The newest Wii U pro controller is still the same layout as the Super Nintendo's with just the joysticks on top. Since Nintendo incorporated the modern joystick on the controller with the N64 and has had one ever since, I would say your latest example only further proves my point. Just look at the Wii U pro classic controller if you need any more proof.


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## JoostinOnline (May 18, 2013)

Layout is the same as it has always been for Nintendo, but the shape is similar to the 360 controller.  Besides, as I said before, they totally ripped those lights off of Thomas Edison.


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## grossaffe (May 18, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Layout is the same as it has always been for Nintendo, but the shape is similar to the 360 controller. Besides, as I said before, they totally ripped those lights off of Thomas Edison.


Actually, Thomas Edison stole the light bulb which had been around 50 years before he patented it.


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## chavosaur (May 18, 2013)

Bobbybangin said:


> That post is worse than your first. The newest Wii U pro controller is still the same layout as the Super Nintendo's with just the joysticks on top. Since Nintendo incorporated the modern joystick on the controller with the N64 and has had one ever since, I would say your latest example only further proves my point. Just look at the Wii U pro classic controller if you need any more proof.


Further proves your point? You didn't have a point in the first place. We've been over the innovation thing a thousand times now, I think the only one unclear about it by now is you. 
You could literally say any controller is a rip off/ Improvement of the first. My whole point of MY post was to give the example that HEY, IF IT LOOKS SIMILAR. IT MUST BE A RIPOFF TO YOU RIGHT?!?!?!
And the funniest thing, Look at the wii U classic controller? Because looking at a classic controller surely doesn't mean it's going to be based off the CLASSIC thing it's meant to play like right?

EDIT: I just realized you didn't even quote the main part of my post, which had you done so, explains why I posted it in the first place. Let me re-quote it for you. 
"And yet, Nintendo must have based every idea off the first random thing that popped into their head without any influence from arcade machines, or Atari... All innovation and ideas spread from learning from other people. Taking tech, an improving upon it.
There's a huge difference between blatantly copying, and massively improving. Nintendo is as much an innovator as Sony and MS are whether you believe so or not. 
To say that Nintendo has Created every single game idea and then Sony and Ms have just been blatantly ripping off is a total Joke. Even Nintendo has INNOVATED or RIPPED OFF. Just not with as much success as you'd like them to have."


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## the_randomizer (May 18, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Layout is the same as it has always been for Nintendo, but the shape is similar to the 360 controller. Besides, as I said before, they totally ripped those lights off of Thomas Edison.


 
We all know that when lights are copied like that, Edison rises from his grave and torments the people who do it.



Spoiler



I actually like the Xbox 360 design for controllers, it reduces hand cramps when I use it


 


chavosaur said:


> Further proves your point? You didn't have a point in the first place. We've been over the innovation thing a thousand times now, I think the only one unclear about it by now is you.
> You could literally say any controller is a rip off/ Improvement of the first. My whole point of MY post was to give the example that HEY, IF IT LOOKS SIMILAR. IT MUST BE A RIPOFF TO YOU RIGHT?!?!?!
> And the funniest thing, Look at the wii U classic controller? Because looking at a classic controller surely doesn't mean it's going to be based off the CLASSIC thing it's meant to play like right?
> 
> ...


People are always quoting other people out of context...that's one of my biggest pet peeves to be perfectly honest. And you're absolutely right in innovation and what other companies do in the industry; there as similarities in different innovations and technologies (like controllers, etc), but nothing was blatantly copied, even I know that 
There would be chaos if one company copied something from another company exactly, I personally have never seen it happen, so I'm not worried.


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