# An Xbox Live ban will mean losing access to (at least some of) your games on Xbox One



## Delta517 (Jun 15, 2013)

> ​The ongoing ambiguity and dubious DRM practices of Microsoft at the moment are in some ways reaching long awaited conclusions. On Twitter, the official Xbox support account told one user that if you are banned from Xbox Live, you “will forfeit the licenses to any games that have licenses tied to it.” It’s okay though, because it’s “listed in the ToU (terms of use).”
> 
> You’d be right in pointing out that this isn’t far from Valve’s model – however, Steam accounts are never banned for etiquette or conduct reasons relating to player interaction. It is common for YouTuber’s to have Xbox Live accounts banned for ‘griefing’ videos, popular on the net.
> 
> ...


 

Wow...Can they do this? Isn't this illegal? Its basically like they take away the games you have bought!  

Twitter Status
Source


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 15, 2013)

Fix: Avoid the Xbox One.


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## Clarky (Jun 15, 2013)

Delta517 said:


> *Wow...Can they do this?* Isn't this illegal? Its basically like they take away the games you have bought!


 

If people are daft enough to agree to the Terms of Use/Service, then yes, they can do this


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## Devin (Jun 15, 2013)

Well uh,

Duh?

I lose access to my PSN games if my account gets banned, lose access to my Xbox Live games if banned from Xbox Live, and I lose all my Steam games when my Steam account is banned.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

I don't see how the _"Terms of Use"_ of the _hardware_ in any way influence the licenses of _the software_. If you own the software and the license for it, you just own in and you following the ToU/ToS in no way influences your ownership of said licenses. Microsoft, you are drunk, go home.



Devin said:


> Well uh, Duh? I lose access to my PSN games if my account gets banned, lose access to my Xbox Live games if banned from Xbox Live, and I lose all my Steam games when my Steam account is banned.


The problem here is that once your XBox One game is registered and installed, it makes the disc unusable. Unless the banning of the account also returns the discs to their original state server-side, you're also stripped of the ownership of the physical discs since they're rendered useless.

The games you have installed on your PS3 won't magically stop working if your PSN account gets banned - your only loss is that you can no longer log on PSN _(since you didn't follow its Terms of service)_, so you may not be able to recover the games that you didn't have installed on the system _(since that would require using the service that you're banned from using, Sony has no obligation to provide you with bandwidth if you're not a user of their service)_. You're denied access _to the service_, the software still works fine.


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## kingsora831 (Jun 15, 2013)

I have actually been thinking about this predicament lately, and I think I may have come up with a solution.
just make an account that will never access xbox live other than to register games on.
since your games can be shared by all users on one system, just have one account which you register games on and your real xbox live account.
so if your xbox live account gets banned (for any reason), all your games are registered on another account on the system and can still be used.
just never go on xbox live multiplayer with that account so their should be no reason for a ban.

but that's of course if gold isn't needed just to register disc games, but this is Microsoft so we will have to see.


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## pokefloote (Jun 15, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see how the _"Terms of Use"_ of the _hardware_ in any way influence the licenses of _the software_. If you own the software and the license for it, you just own in and you following the ToU/ToS in no way influences your ownership of said licenses. Microsoft, you are drunk, go home.
> 
> 
> The problem here is that once your XBox One game is registered and installed, it makes the disc unusable. Unless the banning of the account also returns the discs to their original state server-side, you're also stripped of the ownership of the physical discs since they're rendered useless.
> ...


 
That is very similar to Steam though, if I buy Borderlands 2 from Gamestop as a physical disc, it has a code to activate it on Steam, and the disc is useless once it's activated. If I'm banned from Steam the disc is still useless. (its basically to save download times but still)


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

pokefloote said:


> That is very similar to Steam though, if I buy Borderlands 2 from Gamestop as a physical disc, it has a code to activate it on Steam, and the disc is useless once it's activated. If I'm banned from Steam the disc is still useless. (its basically to save download times but still)


You can always use a NoSteam patch - you still own _the game_ and you can re-install it as many times as you deem fit. You _own_ the software, it's the service that you're banned from.


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## pokefloote (Jun 15, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> You can always use a NoSteam patch - you still own _the game_ and you can re-install it as many times as you deem fit. You _own_ the software, it's the service that you're banned from.


 
Fair enough, I'd definitely do the same.


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## chartube12 (Jun 15, 2013)

This is equal to a bar taking away your ID/licences getting banned from their place.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

chartube12 said:


> This is equal to a bar taking away your ID/licences getting banned from their place.


 
Actually, this is the equivalent of the bouncer punching you in the stomach so hard that you _"return"_ the drinks you drank in the bar and _then_ escorting you to the door, giving you the empty bottles to play with since they're useless at this point anyways.


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## Rydian (Jun 15, 2013)

If your Steam account is banned activations no longer work, but play offline should still, right?
You lose updates and such, but that goes without saying.

I ask because I've never heard of anybody's Steam account itself being banned from Steam.  Only from Steam's online multiplayer game servers.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

Rydian said:


> If your Steam account is banned activations no longer work, but play offline should still, right?
> You lose updates and such, but that goes without saying.
> 
> I ask because I've never heard of anybody's Steam account itself being banned from Steam. Only from Steam's online multiplayer game servers.


 
I would risk saying that the games still work perfectly fine unless they're online-only since, again, you get banned from the service, not the games.

Microsoft seems to be confusing goods and services as of late.


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 15, 2013)

The good thing about the Xbox One is that it arguably will be a big target for hackers.


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## Rydian (Jun 15, 2013)

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869
Only mentions bans from VAC-enabled Steam multiplayer servers.

There is account suspension, but that seems to be temporary and in regards to legal/payment issues.





Has anybody here ever heard of a Steam account itself being banned?  Seeing as Steam (unlike XBOX) sells games that most often do their own multiplayer server stuff without Valve involved (Terraria, etc.) I figured Valve takes a "That's your problem to manage bans, not ours" approach.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

Let me explain my point of view with a wonderful analogy since I'm pretty hungry. Let's say that the console is a fridge, all the games I store on it are food that I legally purchased and the online service is electricity. If I don't pay the electric bill, electricity is cut _(I get banned)_. Now, I can still open the fridge and eat the food, right? I mean, it's in my fridge, right?

_NOPE!_ The fridge has a special lock that closes all my food inside because _"herp derp, you didn't pay your electric bill!"_.

As you can probably see, this makes very little sense, defending a policy like this would be pretty futile because nobody's going to convince me that the electric company is in any way connected to my food purchases - they're a different matter altogether.


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## Minox (Jun 15, 2013)

The thing about a Steam ban is that there are several kinds of bans. None of the used ones lock you out of playing any of the games you own. 

The most common one is the VAC ban. This limits your multiplayer capabilities in VAC-enabled multiplayer games where you've been caught cheating. Some VAC-enabled games still allow you to connect to servers which has VAC-mode disabled if you're VAC-banned while some other games disables multiplayer completely.

The second kind is a Steam Trade ban. If you're found committing fraudulent actions through the Steam trading system then your trading capabilities may be limited by Valve.

Other than that there are various bans related to payment charge-backs which results in restrictions on your account (none of these prevents playing games you've legitimately purchased mind you).



Rydian said:


> There is account suspension, but that seems to be temporary and in regards to legal/payment issues.


Previously these kind of suspensions prevented you from logging in, but to my knowledge they don't intentionally lock anyone out of their account anymore, they just restrict it in various ways.


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## Rydian (Jun 15, 2013)

Didn't even know about the trade ban, never done any real trading on Steam.  I don't play any of the games that have Steam-linked inventories and crap.


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## VashTS (Jun 15, 2013)

not positive but I think you lose your psn activation if not on for an extended period of time, hence the reason for reactpsn for us cfw users. we had to stay away from online for quite a while on 3.55 cfw, people lost their games access and someone created reactpsn as a result.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

VashTS said:


> not positive but I think you lose your psn activation if not on for an extended period of time, hence the reason for reactpsn for us cfw users. we had to stay away from online for quite a while on 3.55 cfw, people lost their games access and someone created reactpsn as a result.


 
False. All your PSN-bought games work perfectly fine regardless of whether or not you even use PSN anymore or whether or not you're banned - the only _"activation"_ that may become void would be a PSPlus one which is valid as long as you're a PSPlus subscriber.

Getting _"banned on PSN"_ doesn't make your games unusable - you're banned from PSN only, you can't access the store or use Sony's online service in any way, but the games _you have installed_ don't stop working.


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## Nah3DS (Jun 15, 2013)

it's like they don't want people tu buy their console


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## SSVAV (Jun 15, 2013)

> It is common for YouTuber’s to have Xbox Live accounts banned for ‘griefing’ videos, popular on the net.


 
Someone explain this to me? What it is, videos _about_ geting banned because of griefing, or getting banned _because_ of Youtube video trolling?

Either way Foxi4 is right, Microsoft_ isn't the one providing you_ the games usage license, *it's the publisher of said games*, and in no way getting banned from Xbox Live because of Microsoft ToS breach should block you from using these licenses on hardware* you own *(cause as far as I know game consoles are NOT rented for life).

Another way to stomp on consumer rights. gg Microsoft

Then again this is a problem they themselves created with their always online policy


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

SSVAV said:


> Someone explain this to me? What it is, videos _about_ geting banned because of griefing, or getting banned _because_ of Youtube video trolling?
> 
> Either way Foxi4 is right, Microsoft_ isn't the one providing you_ the games usage license, *it's the publisher*, and in no way getting banned from Xbox Live because of Microsoft ToS breach should block you from using these licenses on hardware* you own *(cause as far as I know game consoles are NOT rented for life).
> 
> ...


 
Think MinessotaBurns. His videos are treated as _"evidence"_ of his trolling and as such are used againts him in disputes with Microsoft. I do believe he's gone through 6+ XBox 360'ties at this point, but it's not like I'm keeping count.

I could understand that his account would get banned, but why the console as well is anyone's guess.

As for the license issues, thank you for putting my explaination into a more digestable format, that's exactly what I had in mind. Microsoft shouldn't be overseeing your licenses, that's asinine.


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## Smuff (Jun 15, 2013)

It's like Microsoft took a shit on my bed while I was sleeping, then pissed on it to put it out while smiling at me and saying "Hail to the King baby".

Actually, to be serious for a minute, I'm sick of this whole modern day shit where you don't appear to actually own the things you purchase. Fuck off M$, Apple etc.


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## SSVAV (Jun 15, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Think MinessotaBurns. His videos are treated as _"evidence"_ of his trolling and as such are used againts him in disputes with Microsoft. I do believe he's gone through 6+ XBox 360'ties at this point, but it's not like I'm keeping count.
> 
> I could understand that his account would get banned, but why the console as well is anyone's guess.
> 
> As for the license issues, thank you for putting my explaination into a more digestable format, that's exactly what I had in mind. Microsoft shouldn't be overseeing your licenses, that's asinine.


 

Then again videos on Youtube can't be used as evidence if they don't have a record of said interactions on their servers, as far as I know the videos could be edited to look like they were played on Xbox Live.

That's why the US legal system doesn't accept Youtube videos as evidence btw


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## Rydian (Jun 15, 2013)

SSVAV said:


> Someone explain this to me? What it is, videos _about_ geting banned because of griefing, or getting banned _because_ of Youtube video trolling?


People will go and act like total assholes in online games (abusing glitches to harm accounts, racial slurs, etc.), video record it, and put it up on youtube for laughs/fame/ad-money.

Microsoft spots these videos, knows who it is, and bans them.

Said person uses ad money to buy a new 360 and/or online passes, continues.


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## BIFFTAZ (Jun 15, 2013)

```
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lMhjM9BK7M#t=48s
```

Major Nelson


> You DO NOT lose acsess to games you purchased if you get banned


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## skarthebloodchild (Jun 15, 2013)

BIFFTAZ said:


> ```
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lMhjM9BK7M#t=48s
> ```


never say that again.


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## SSVAV (Jun 15, 2013)

BIFFTAZ said:


> ```
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lMhjM9BK7M#t=48s
> ```
> 
> Major Nelson


 

Another major PR blunder, it's distressing Microsoft PR employees don't know what's written in the ToS of their new product

It's like they put the most stupid people to promote their console, like Don Mattrick saying no internet stick to X360, like the competition didn't exist


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## GameWinner (Jun 15, 2013)

BIFFTAZ said:


> ```
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lMhjM9BK7M#t=48s
> ```
> 
> Major Nelson


 
But you're still banned, you can't get online anymore and thus you can't play your games...


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## BIFFTAZ (Jun 15, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> But you're still banned, you can't get online anymore and thus you can't play your games...


 

He said you wont be able to play multiplayer, Maybe they just ban you from MP & marketplace & so on, But allow you to connect every 24 hours????

Just to add to the first post with an update to the tweet that has been posted.







https://twitter.com/XboxSupport1/status/345775684045660160

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/...count-ban-comment-clarified-by-microsoft.html


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## SSVAV (Jun 15, 2013)

BIFFTAZ said:


> He said you wont be able to play multiplayer, Maybe they just ban you from MP & marketplace & so on, But allow you to connect every 24 hours????
> 
> Just to add to the first post with an update to the tweet that has been posted.
> 
> ...


 
Oh great so M$ has been pulling this BS on our backs for the past 6 years and no one noticed. Seems legit


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

I think it's safe to assume that at this point _"nobody f*cking knows"_ how this system works, including Microsoft's employees. It's convoluted, unnecessarily complicated and nobody's ever asked for it.


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## BIFFTAZ (Jun 15, 2013)

SSVAV said:


> Oh great so M$ has been pulling this BS on our backs for the past 6 years and no one noticed. Seems legit


 

Thought that was pretty obvious... If you had bought DLC, XBLA, 360 Games from XBL on the 360 & your profile gets banned, You cant log in to XBL at all, So your SOL (Unless you already have it backed up on your HDD). Like you say, Its been that way for 6 years, But now its a problem? Seems legit

Just want to put this out there. If you get banned from PSN (They have recently started banning from PSN too), Anything you have bought with the profile that gets banned is gone (Unless you already have it backed up on your HDD). So there's no difference between the two.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 15, 2013)

BIFFTAZ said:


> Thought that was pretty obvious... If you had bought DLC, XBLA, 360 Games from XBL on the 360 & your profile gets banned, You cant log in to XBL at all, So your SOL *(Unless you already have it backed up on your HDD)*. Like you say, Its been that way for 6 years, But now its a problem? Seems legit
> 
> FYI, If you get banned from PSN (They have recently started banning from PSN too), Anything you have bought with the profile that gets banned is gone *(Unless you already have it backed up on your HDD)*. So there's no difference between the 2.


 
...which is the crucial difference here. I really don't know why people can't see the difference between _getting banned from a service_ and _getting banned from using stuff you own._ If you get banned on XBL or PSN _today_, you can't access the download lists as they're _part of the service_, you can't re-download _because you're banned_ and you can't use the service's bandwidth. That being said, the content you _do own and have saved on your drive_ works perfectly fine. _Not in XBox One's case, apparently_ which makes the _huge difference_.

As a responsible owner, you should back up your digital content _anyways_, if you're banned from PSN/XBL, the respective companies have _no legal obligation to waste their bandwidth on your sorry banned ass_ much like _it's not their responsibility to take care of your discs if they break because you didn't take care of them properly_ - you should've backed up your content, it's your responsibility.


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## Ryupower (Jun 15, 2013)

what will happen if your xbox one is banned from live (not account,  but the system)

will you have a very nice $500 paperweight


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## SSVAV (Jun 15, 2013)

BIFFTAZ said:


> Thought that was pretty obvious... If you had bought DLC, XBLA, 360 Games from XBL on the 360 & your profile gets banned, You cant log in to XBL at all, So your SOL (Unless you already have it backed up on your HDD). Like you say, Its been that way for 6 years, But now its a problem? Seems legit
> 
> FYI, If you get banned from PSN (They have recently started banning from PSN too), Anything you have bought with the profile that gets banned is gone (Unless you already have it backed up on your HDD). So there's no difference between the 2.


 

Yeah well when you see it like that it does make sense, kinda, still not happy to see they have the rights to revoke your license to a game, not like you are going to harm them if you continue to play games you already bought. Oh wait it is an opportunity to make you pay twice

Anyway the twitter post clearly stated Xbox One games and they responded with the Xbox 360 ToS, clearly not the brightest thing to do, and they keep saying how they don't have any more information. If M$ is really planning to sell you a service this time it would be smart to at least reveal what kind of service they will be offering, right now we have nothing and they cancelled all roundtables so yeah

I mean when I opened my bank account they were pretty clear about what I can and cannot do, not sure the whole XBox Live ToS will be available on the XBox 1 package. And yes this is a valid concern cause Xbox Live is now required to use the machine as opposed to use online services, and online services don't make you pay upfront without first presenting you the ToS


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 15, 2013)

Wait.. so we have an online only console, and employees saying if you're banned from Live, your games become 60 dollar paper weights.

But then we have another guy who's saying that's not true and that you'll still be able to access your games. But you won't be able to go online to do the 24 hour check in because you're banned.

Then we have another guy saying if you can't get internet, buy an Xbox 360.

Then we have another person saying TV TV TV TV TV TV Experience TV TV TV TV TV Sports TV Call of Duty

Then we have another person saying $499.

Then we have another person saying only 21 countries will be supported at launch and the likes of Japan will get it late 2014.

Then we have a rainbow colored duck quacking in your face while you're trying to say "Xbox, Go Home"



Microsoft, what are you doing?


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## BIFFTAZ (Jun 15, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...which is the crucial difference here. I really don't know why people can't see the difference between _getting banned from a service_ and _getting banned from using stuff you own._ If you get banned on XBL or PSN _today_, you can't access the download lists as they're _part of the service_, you can't re-download _because you're banned_ and you can't use the service's bandwidth. That being said, the content you _do own and have saved on your drive_ works perfectly fine. _Not in XBox One's case, apparently_ which makes the _huge difference_.
> 
> As a responsible owner, you should back up your digital content _anyways_, if you're banned from PSN/XBL, the respective companies have _no legal obligation to waste their bandwidth on your sorry banned ass_ much like _it's not their responsibility to take care of your discs if they break because you didn't take care of them properly_ - you should've backed up your content, it's your responsibility.


 
How Xbox one deals with the issue of checking in on you 24 hours after they ban you from XBL is still unclear. I'm sure they wouldn't just "Brick" your console... Isn't that illegal?


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## The Catboy (Jun 15, 2013)

Boy the XFlopONE is looking better  every day!


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 15, 2013)

Just don't get banned from xbox live. It's not rocket science


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## GameWinner (Jun 15, 2013)

Clydefrosch said:


> Just don't get banned from xbox live. It's not rocket science


 
But that's so hard!!


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## DinohScene (Jun 15, 2013)

GameWinner said:


> But that's so hard!!


 
Have been online with a flashed DVD for years and years.
Never been caught as of today.
And prolly also tomorrow, and next week and next year...


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## the_randomizer (Jun 15, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Wait.. so we have an online only console, and employees saying if you're banned from Live, your games become 60 dollar paper weights.
> 
> But then we have another guy who's saying that's not true and that you'll still be able to access your games. But you won't be able to go online to do the 24 hour check in because you're banned.
> 
> ...


 

They're trying to confuse the hell outta potential customers and loyal fans alike.  As for Japan not getting the Xbox till next year, I doubt they'll even care to acknowledge its existence. I can see it now, two Japanese college students.

A: Hey, did you hear about the Xbox One?
B: Wasn't that released back in 2001? 
A: No, this is the next Xbox console! 
B: They announced a new Xbox?

They don't even care about it; they're primarily a handheld console nation, consoles aren't as big anymore. 3DS, DS, PSP, etc have all sold or are still selling like crazy over there. Microsoft has committed seppuku over there.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 15, 2013)

As MS does not really seem to know what goes, we have other threads discussing the xbone and we are running around in circles within this thread a little lock is in order.


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