# Geoff Keighley: Sources say Sony will include PS4 used game DRM



## Deleted_171835 (May 26, 2013)

> On the latest Bonus Round episode over at Gametrailers, Geoff Keighley said that his sources were indicating that Sony would be implementing some form of used game DRM, just as Microsoft has done with the Xbox One.


http://www.gametrailers.com/full-ep...und-dissecting-the-microsoft-press-conference (@17:50)


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## nukeboy95 (May 26, 2013)

well wiiu is now the best (if true)


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## xist (May 26, 2013)

E3 is not literally 10 minutes away so jumping on every rumour is getting really tiresome. Although given what I've read about the used market in Japan this seems unlikely to be true at any more than an individual publisher level.


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## weavile001 (May 26, 2013)

Well, fuck.
I can't believe this.


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2013)

_"A little bird told me"_ style of news without any real evidence? Yay! That's our favourite kind! 

My sources say this thread will go well! 



weavile001 said:


> Well, fuck.
> 
> I can't believe this.


I can't either, for an array of completely different reasons.

Sony's stock went up after XBox One's presentation partially due to the way Microsoft wants to approach used games - Sony would _not_ be doing themselves a favour by preparing an equivalent system. It's safe to assume that the company is _not_ managed by a hundred monkeys locked in cubicles, so I don't see this happening. They spoke of the used games situation on the PS4 ages ago - DRM is in the hands of the publishers and developers, just like it was with the PS3.


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## BasedKiliK (May 26, 2013)

Like xist said, learning about a new rumor every other day at this point is getting ridiculous. E3's right around the corner so I'd rather hear about official confirmations then. Though I consider this unlikely given how many gamers care about used and second-hand games, and how bad MS has it right now. (I also remember in an interview someone from Sony stating that they will not be blocking used games)


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## Dork (May 26, 2013)

> Geoff Keighley said that his sources were indicating


 
So, it hasn't been confirmed yet.


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## notmeanymore (May 26, 2013)

_If this is true_, then I'm 100% converting to PC Master Race. I was going to go PS4 and PC, but no more.


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## Wombo Combo (May 27, 2013)

TehSkull said:


> _If this is true_, then I'm 100% converting to PC Master Race. I was going to go PS4 and PC, but no more.


Same only going to be gaming on my PC from now on. I only bought used games on all the consoles I had.


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## xist (May 27, 2013)

Taken from Neogaf -



			
				famousmortimer;59464713 said:
			
		

> > Originally Posted by *Zombie James*:
> >
> >
> > _It would be an amazingly good sign if community reaction changed plans like this. It would be stupid for Sony to have agreed to such a thing in the first place, but listening to what people are saying and reacting accordingly is nice._
> ...


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## Thomas83Lin (May 27, 2013)

I'm not believing this until Sony confirms.


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## narutofan777 (May 27, 2013)

What would be the problem with this turn of events? Personally I shall wait until the PS4 is hacked.

----

o well who carezz...imma wait 4 the ps4 to be hacked..lmfao


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## Ergo (May 27, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> _"A little bird told me"_ style of news without any real evidence? Yay! That's our favourite kind!
> 
> My sources say this thread will go well!
> 
> ...


 
You have been paying attention to SONY Corp. for the last decade, right? I think it's fair to say that SONY *is* run by a hundred monkeys--a hundred monkeys that have brought a once-phenomenal company to the brink of dissolution, surviving, barely, on credit and having their bond rating at or near junk.

Furthermore, they punted on the used game question by giving us a cagey response that it's in pubs' hands, but that's just like region-locking was in pubs' hands on 360--how many companies actually abstained from that little bit of DRM? Effectively none, which is *exactly* how it will be on PS4 *IF* SONY offers the option.

(They are punting to the pubs because (they think*) it helps them sidestep the PR nightmare that MS is currently embroiled in by waving their hands and saying "it's not us!", even though they built back-end infrastructure to support it.)

This entire used games debacle is really bad business on many levels and the only rationale MS (and probably SONY) must have is people will just get used to it after the initial furor. (And they may be right, but they may also be chucking a huge chunk of the market away on a foolish gamble that only, in the end, benefits them...at least initially.)

_(I'm also getting an intense feeling of deja vu, re: DRM, from another thread, not too long ago...)_

*They're stupid: the average consumer is going to blame SONY for this even if it's only EA or only S-E or only 'x' company using it (it won't be 'only' anyone, and MS has made that even easier by allowing people to lump them both together.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

Ergo said:


> _*Snip!*_


...you do know that Sony does more than just video game systems, right? They mostly suffer due to their other ventures, the gaming division actually began turning in profits quite some time ago.


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## Ergo (May 27, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...you do know that Sony does more than just video game systems, right? They mostly suffer due to their other ventures, the gaming division actually began turning in profits quite some time ago.


 
This is so far disconnected from reality that I'm only going to say: a couple of years of profits on PS3 *do not* make up for billions upon billions of losses incurred due to years of running their game division so far into the red* it ate away *all* the profits from the PS1 and 2 _combine_d. If that's your 'proof' that Sony's game biz isn't run by (badly) trained monkeys (the head of which for most of those years is now the president of Sony as a whole), you need to try a lot harder.

(Psst: Sony was able to float the company on profits from PS2 for a number of years when other divisions were bombing, but with the collapse of the gaming division circa PS3, that is exactly what brought Sony to its knees once their only useful division ate it due to overwhelming arrogance and stupidity.)

(Also: going from absolute market dominance, to clawing for a third place finish is a failure in anyones book, even if they had made a ton of money on it...which they didn't.

*And then the 'geniuses' in the exec suite at SCE gave us the...Vita. Which is an epic bomb, regardless of how you feel about its games, and another bullet in your 'b-b-but game division' 'argument'.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

Ergo said:


> This is so far disconnected from reality that I'm only going to say: a couple of years of profits on PS3 *do not* make up for billions upon billions of losses incurred due to years of running their game division so far into the red it ate away *all* the profits from the PS1 and 2 _combine_d. If that's your 'proof' that Sony's game biz isn't run by (badly) trained monkeys (the head of which for most of those years is now the president of Sony as a whole), you need to try a lot harder.
> 
> (Psst: Sony was able to float the company on profits from PS2 for a number of years when other divisions were bombing, but with the collapse of the gaming division circa PS3, that is exactly what brought Sony to its knees once their only useful division ate it due to overwhelming arrogance and stupidity.)
> 
> (Also: going from absolute market dominance, to clawing for a third place finish is a failure in anyones book, even if they had made a ton of money on it...which they didn't.


 
I'm not saying that they managed the PS3 situation very well - I'm saying that they're managing it well now, to such an extent that their last generation system _still_ sells better than Nintendo's next generation one.

They're not idiots and they're not repeating the mistakes of the past - the PS3's launch price was a huge hurdle for early adopters so they made sure to announce the system as _low-cost_, the CELL was hard to develop for so they chose _the easiest_ architecture to program for - the x86. They actually went door-to-door to consult game developers about what they'd want to see in their system.

The PS4 _will_ undoubtedly be a successful system and Sony does take note of a sudden spike in their stock price - money speaks more than a thousand words and if _not_ introducing such DRM as a standard gives them exactly that, they won't introduce it.


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## XDel (May 27, 2013)

Great, hope they both go down. More hope that PC gaming will thrive once again as it should.


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## IBNobody (May 27, 2013)

It wouldn't surprise me if Sony went and did this now that Microsoft did it. It may not be the right choice for the consumers, but it is the right choice for the publishers.

If the PS4 and XB1 are evenly matched for sales for the first few months and you were a publisher, would you publish your game on the console without used game DRM, or would you publish it on the console more lucrative used game DRM scheme?

I know that it isn't as black-and-white as this, but Sony IS leaving money on the table if they don't follow in Microsoft's footsteps.


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## Gahars (May 27, 2013)

Spoiler: Geoff Keighley










 


XDel said:


> More hope that PC gaming will thrive once again as it should.


 

Because it's not thriving right now? Are we looking at the same PC gaming scene?

I'm more than skeptical of this news myself. It may well be true, but without anything to substantiate the claim, we'd probably be best holding out judgement until we hear from Sony itself on the subject.


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## XDel (May 27, 2013)

I've no idea man, I don't really follow the market place. Seems to me the market place is rarely ruled by logic anyhow. 




Gahars said:


> Spoiler: Geoff Keighley
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TheCasketMan (May 27, 2013)

This is just a rumor and probably a scheme by Mr. Dewritos to lower the hype of the PS4.  PC games also have annoying DRM, and used games barely exists in PC in stores, and if they do, they will 99.99% chance will also have DRM to prevent someone from letting a friend borrow a game.


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 27, 2013)

this is Microsoft and Sony we're talking about here...are we really acting THAT surprised?

..kinda was expecting Sony to be a dick as well when it came to used games.,


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## Ergo (May 27, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not saying that they managed the PS3 situation very well - I'm saying that they're managing it well now, to such an extent that their last generation system _still_ sells better than Nintendo's next generation one.
> 
> They're not idiots and they're not repeating the mistakes of the past - the PS3's launch price was a huge hurdle for early adopters so they made sure to announce the system as _low-cost_, the CELL was hard to develop for so they chose _the easiest_ architecture to program for - the x86. They actually went door-to-door to consult game developers about what they'd want to see in their system.
> 
> The PS4 _will_ undoubtedly be a successful system and Sony does take note of a sudden spike in their stock price - money speaks more than a thousand words and if _not_ introducing such DRM as a standard gives them exactly that, they won't introduce it.



Do you grasp the irony of your statements? The *same* could be--and was--said of the PS3. It was also said about Vita. And yet...they dropped the ball. Hard. And given that you skipped my PS Vita comment, which was greenlit, as a project, under the current prez of Sony and is a product of the improved SCE you claim now exists, I am a lot less sanguine.

(And really, how good could your management be if you were counting on a *third party* product to carry you to victory (see: Monster Hunter)? Banking on the transient nature of third party 'exclusives' is foolish in the extreme, and I don't even need an MBA to tell you that.)

(And you're going to have define your terms: what counts as "successful"? 4-years of bleeding before making money? First place? Third but making money? "Success" is a very elastic term...)

(And of course the PS3 is selling better than the U--it's cheaper and has a much better library of games. The PS2 out-sold the XBOX360, too, initially, but that doesn't mean what you think it means especially since the 360 went on to decimate the PS3 in the USA and the UK and Sony, is just now, as the generation ends, about to pass MS on the continent.)

Anyway, I'm done--you can have the last word, but I think you have far too much faith in a company that has not earned it, purely from a business standpoint, never mind the vagaries of consumer demand and the current state of the economy.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

Ergo said:


> Do you grasp the irony of your statements? The *same* could be--and was--said of the PS3. It was also said about Vita. And yet...they dropped the ball. Hard. And given that you skipped my PS Vita comment, which was greenlit, as a project, under the current prez of Sony and is a product of the improved SCE you claim now exists, I am a lot less sanguine.


...this might be due to the simple reason that I like my PSVita and see nothing wrong with it as a product...? It has a slow start just like any Sony platform in the history of ever, which doesn't make it a bad product - it's merely sold at a high price point.

The 3DS was initialy sold for $250 as well and it didn't sell either, except guess what - the PSVita actually packs a punch and its price is entirely justified, which was not the case with the 3DS.

Sure, it could use a price cut. Sure, it needs more games to get it going, but we have an E3 ahead of us - an ideal time to present new titles.



> (And really, how good could your management be if you were counting on a *third party* product to carry you to victory (see: Monster Hunter)? Banking on the transient nature of third party 'exclusives' is foolish in the extreme, and I don't even need an MBA to tell you that.)


I think you probably should work on your logic there, because that's exactly what pulled the PS1 and the PS2 to the top...?



> (And you're going to have define your terms: what counts as "successful"? 4-years of bleeding before making money? First place? Third but making money? "Success" is a very elastic term...)


Except it's not going off the market. Like, at all. The PS4 is not backwards-compatible, which enables Sony to continue selling PS3's well into the life cycle of the PS3. They did the exact same thing with the PS1 and the PS2 in the past - the PS3 isn't going to vanish of the radar.



> (And of course the PS3 is selling better than the U--it's cheaper and has a much better library of games. The PS2 out-sold the XBOX360, too, initially, but that doesn't mean what you think it means especially since the 360 went on to decimate the PS3 in the USA and the UK and Sony, is just now, as the generation ends, about to pass MS on the continent.)


Uh-huh - so it is passing, is it not? Additionally I'd like to add that UK =/= the entire Europe and all that. 



> Anyway, I'm done--you can have the last word, but I think you have far too much faith in a company that has not earned it, purely from a business standpoint, never mind the vagaries of consumer demand and the current state of the economy.


 
I think you're over-interpreting what I actually said, which was _"Sony saw the increase in their stock price after the XBox One presentation and is able to draw conclusions from that"_ which is something they indeed can do.

The Anti-Sony. It is oozing out of you.


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## Hop2089 (May 27, 2013)

Sony don't do this and if you do make it a serial code on the back of the box or in the box for physical versions of games.

This is dangerous because if both have the online activation requirement, consoles will die and mobile will takeover, trust me mobile is the nightmare of nightmares, controls suck, true region locking that can't be bypassed or rectified by any means, and mobile games overall suck, good games are few and far between.  Now PC would not satisfy me, there's very little I want to play on PC, Japanese exclusives are often MMOs (no thanks) and Visual Novels (I want more variety than just VNs, I like them but I don't want to be reduced to just playing them).


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## ShadowSoldier (May 27, 2013)

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird, that Geoff Keighley who works with GameTrailers (Who's hugely supported by Microsoft mind you), randomly came out with this, right around the time people are bitching about Microsoft doing it?

Like... why not say it around the Sony conference. Instead "Oh, the internet is all butthurt about used games on my precious and glorious Xbox One? I'm tired of this, time for a new rumor..."


It just seems weird to me.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 27, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...this might be due to the simple reason that I like my PSVita and see nothing wrong with it as a product...? It has a slow start just like any Sony platform in the history of ever, which doesn't make it a bad product - it's merely sold at a high price point.
> 
> The 3DS was initialy sold for $250 as well and it didn't sell either, except guess what - the PSVita actually packs a punch and its price is entirely justified, which was not the case with the 3DS.
> 
> Sure, it could use a price cut. Sure, it needs more games to get it going, but we have an E3 ahead of us - an ideal time to present new titles.


Do I have to bring up the fact that the 3DS pre-price drop didn't sell anywhere as close to how the Vita is doing?
Or that we already had TGS, E3, and two holiday seasons pass by with no significant news regarding the Vita's future?
Or that "perceived value" matters more when people say the Vita is overpriced.

To say that the Vita has been anything but a failure so far is straight up delusional. It's long past the point where we can say it's simply struggling. Sure it's fine if you like the platform but there's no denying the situation it's in.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

soulx said:


> Do I have to bring up the fact that the 3DS pre-price drop didn't sell anywhere as close to how the Vita is doing?


It's sort of hard to tell how the PSVita's doing due to consolidating sales of both the PSVita and the PS3 on every quarterly report I've read lately, but yeah, I suppose you're right.


> Or that we already had TGS, E3, and two holiday seasons pass by with no significant news regarding the Vita's future?


Except of several upcoming games and the promise of 100 new titles coming up within the year?


> Or that "perceived value" matters more when people say the Vita is overpriced.


Perhaps Sony's marketing should focus more on how the PSVita is factually a better system then rather than printing posters of women with two sets of breasts then... 



> To say that the Vita has been anything but a failure so far is straight up delusional. It's long past the point where we can say it's simply struggling. Sure it's fine if you like the platform but there's no denying the situation it's in.


 
It highly depends on the area you speak of. Where I live, the 3DS practically doesn't exist.  I wouldn't go as far as to call it a failure, but it definitely could do better. There's some room for improvement - quite a lot of room, but I expect the system to have a long lifespan, so they have time to make up for the slow start. We'll see how the situation will look like post-E3 and after the PS4 is released, having all the cross-connectivity in mind.

Also, appropriate:


Spoiler


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

WELP! Gaming just went to the shitter if this is true. Everyone should just go ahead and buy a Wii U or Ouya right now.


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## Hop2089 (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> WELP! Gaming just went to the shitter if this is true. Everyone should just go ahead and buy a Wii U or Ouya right now.


 
And to think everyone in the industry are criticizing Nintendo for being behind the times, no they aren't behind the times and they have some respect towards gamers and don't want to alienate them.


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## Walker D (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> WELP! Gaming just went to the shitter if this is true. Everyone should just go ahead and buy a Wii U or Ouya right now.


Meh ... Ouya is overhyped in my opinion..


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

Walker D said:


> Meh ... Ouya is overhyped in my opinion..


 
Not the issue here. Nintendo and Ouya are NOT sticking a HD camera in your living room, tracking your movements, forcing you to pay extra for used games and telling you how to use your content. -OK well Ouya is more open than Wii U but you get my point. "Microshit" and if true, "Fony" are pushing the boundaries of home privacy in nasty ways that I just don't like



Watch the above video. While I don't agree with this guy's statement on Project glass, he "gets it"! He understands the bullshit the industry is putting gamers through and all for some quick cash. Gamers need to vote with their wallets this fall and they need to vote this kind of DRM out of existence!


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## Walker D (May 27, 2013)

Yeah, I got it ...I'm not complacent to the Sony/Microsoft's recent crap decisions.
About the Ouya, not copying the Sony/Microsoft bad decisions only avoid a insta death ...but doesn't make it more appealing to me than it ever were in the past. It's still the meh android player of always..

(as a joke exemple, potatoes "are NOT sticking a HD camera in your living room, tracking your movements, forcing you to pay extra for used games and telling you how to use your content." ...but I see no need to include them in the list of things to buy right now, together with the Wii U and the Ouya  ..they keep being as relevant as they ever were)


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## lovewiibrew (May 27, 2013)

Oooo yes, cry Sony fanbois, your tears taste so good.


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

Walker D said:


> Yeah, I got it ...I'm not complacent to the Sony/Microsoft recent crap decisions.
> About the Ouya, not copying the Sony/Microsoft bad decisions only avoid a insta death ...but doesn't make it more appealing to me than it ever were in the past. It's still the meh android player of always..
> 
> (as a joke exemple, potatoes "are NOT sticking a HD camera in your living room, tracking your movements, forcing you to pay extra for used games and telling you how to use your content." ...but I see no need to include them in the list of things to buy right now, together with the Wii U and the Ouya  ..they keep being as relevant as they ever were)


 

I feel where you are coming from. I'm sure we can both agree that gaming right now is in a sorry state. It's really sad to wake up and be more excited about the already released and past games and consoles I have yet to play with more than the stuff that's on its way. That alone says a lot about where gaming is heading.


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## Gahars (May 27, 2013)

lovewiibrew said:


> Oooo yes, cry Sony fanbois, your tears taste so good.


 

...Are you so desperate for good news that you gloat over unsubstantiated rumors? Seriously?

As I said, this may well be true, but there's absolutely nothing to support it - except that some people really, really, really want it to be true. Maybe we should hold off on the vindictive snipes until we know what's actually going on?

I feel like that's a good policy in general, really.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 27, 2013)

Hey guys remember that the PC has a GREAT used games market.

I know the reasoning is "Well PC games are always so cheap" but that's not always the case while used games are reliably cheaper.

Also if you're going to bring piracy into the equation you should probably stop typing.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> Not the issue here. Nintendo and Ouya are NOT sticking a HD camera in your living room, tracking your movements, forcing you to pay extra for used games and telling you how to use your content. -OK well Ouya is more open than Wii U but you get my point. "Microshit" and if true, "Fony" are pushing the boundaries of home privacy in nasty ways that I just don't like
> 
> 
> 
> Watch the above video. While I don't agree with this guy's statement on Project glass, he "gets it"! He understands the bullshit the industry is putting gamers through and all for some quick cash. Gamers need to vote with their wallets this fall and they need to vote this kind of DRM out of existence!




Protip: If you want to be taken serious in a conversation, don't stoop low and say "Microshit" or "Fony" like a babbling retard.

Also you can spout "Gamers need to vote with their wallets" all you want. If you had a petition of 100k people saying they were going to do that, you'd be lucky if you got 10k to actually follow through.


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## Walker D (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> I feel where you are coming from. I'm sure we can both agree that gaming right now is in a sorry state. It's really sad to wake up and be more excited about the already released and past games and consoles I have yet to play with more than the stuff that's on its way. That alone says a lot about where gaming is heading.


 
Indeed. Maybe there's some light at the end of the E3's tunnel ...but I'm not THAT optimistic ..hope things get a better picture by then though


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## Gahars (May 27, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Protip: If you want to be taken serious in a conversation, don't stoop low and say "Microshit" or "Fony" like a babbling retard.


 

Also, if you are going to stoop to that level, maybe spell "Phony" correctly.


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## FireGrey (May 27, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Spoiler: Geoff Keighley
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
This post is suspiciously serious...
Anyway remember when that little birdy told all the big sources that the Xbox One will be online only?
Yeah I don't either.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 27, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Also, if you are going to stoop to that level, maybe spell "Phony" correctly.


 
I think it's him trying to be clever by using the name South Park uses for Sony.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 27, 2013)

Can we please stop trying to group the Ouya in with the Wii U, PS4, and X1? Like the joke is kinda old guys, its been worn out.

Also I think before we all jump to conclusions we should take this with a helping of salt and wait for actual announcements by the console makers. It's fun to speculate but not on issues like this.


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## lovewiibrew (May 27, 2013)

Gahars said:


> ...Are you so desperate for good news that you gloat over unsubstantiated rumors? Seriously?
> 
> As I said, this may well be true, but there's absolutely nothing to support it - except that some people really, really, really want it to be true. Maybe we should hold off on the vindictive snipes until we know what's actually going on?
> 
> I feel like that's a good policy in general, really.


 
No, I just get tired of the fanboys here on the temp. I like Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and have the PS3, 360, and Wii/Wii U. My point is all the Sony Fanbois are bashing the Wii U and now the Xbox One for its use of fees for used games. Now that someone's caught wind of the same thing coming to PS4, the fanbois cry that it's either a rumor or somehow justify it. The same way they bash the Wii U for its low sales and not having many games but if it's the Psvita (low sales/no games) they defend it to death. It's getting old.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> Not the issue here. Nintendo and Ouya are NOT sticking a HD camera in your living room, tracking your movements, forcing you to pay extra for used games and telling you how to use your content.


 
Crossing out the OUYA since that's not an actual competitor in the arms race - that console is the equivalent of a marathon hobbyist running around the stadium where three of the world's best runners are duking it out during the Olympics. It's running around, sure... but it's just not in the actual games.

As for Nintendo NOT sticking an HD camera into your living room, that's kinda true - they stick an SD camera _right into your face_ with the DSi, 3DS and the Wii U

Speaking of _"telling you how to use your content"_, I'd like to remind you that they're the ones who first allowed developers to use game cartridges with no option to remove the save files _(in a desperate effort to quell the second-hand market, no less)_ without the use of a save dumper or corrupting the save file on purpose _(Resident Evil: Mercenaries comes to mind)._

They're also the only ones out of the three that don't tie the digital purchases _to your online account_, rather _to the machine you purchased them on_ _(with the possibility to transfer from one machine to another, but cue disappointment...)_ effectively leading to a _"you lose your system/the system breaks/you lose your data inadvertently for whatever reason and it's just... gone"_ situation which is unacceptable by today's standards.

It's also worth to mention how Virtual Console titles transfered to the Wii U run in vWii and have to be _"upgraded"_ to the Wii U version for an additional fee to take advantage of the gamepad which is _ridiculous_ as you already paid for the title.

...so they kinda _are_ telling you how to use your content - _"in the most awkward way possible"_.

But I digress, they're by no means worse than the Mafia - that's just Sony and Microsoft.

Just sayin'.


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## Gahars (May 27, 2013)

lovewiibrew said:


> No, I just get tired of the fanboys here on the temp. I like Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and have the PS3, 360, and Wii/Wii U. My point is all the Sony Fanbois are bashing the Wii U and now the Xbox One for its use of fees for used games. Now that someone's caught wind of the same thing coming to PS4, the fanbois cry that it's either a rumor or somehow justify it. The same way they bash the Wii U for its low sales and not having many games but if it's the Psvita (low sales/no games) they defend it to death. It's getting old.


 

Yeah, because GBAtemp (of all forums) is just swarming with Sony fanboys. Totally, dude. Dude Nukem. David Dudovny. Book of Duderonomy. Buddy.

I think your imagination is getting a little active here. It's best to check your surroundings every now and then - otherwise, you might find yourself charging windmills.


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## lovewiibrew (May 27, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Yeah, because GBAtemp (of all forums) is just swarming with Sony fanboys. Totally, dude. Dude Nukem. David Dudovny. Book of Duderonomy. Buddy.
> 
> I think your imagination is getting a little active here. It's best to check your surroundings every now and then - otherwise, you might find yourself charging windmills.


 
It's not just Sony fanbois. We have Nintendosoft fanbois too. Its just that we had Wii U bashed, then Xbox One bashed, now it's Sony's turn. Bend over and take it.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

lovewiibrew said:


> No, I just get tired of the fanboys here on the temp. I like Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and have the PS3, 360, and Wii/Wii U. My point is all the Sony Fanbois are bashing the Wii U and now the Xbox One for its use of fees for used games. Now that someone's caught wind of the same thing coming to PS4, the fanbois cry that it's either a rumor or somehow justify it. The same way they bash the Wii U for its low sales and not having many games but if it's the Psvita (low sales/no games) they defend it to death. It's getting old.


 
But... _it is_ an unjustified rumour. In fact, Sony made a statement back in February concerning DRM that goes _completely_ against this rumour - inclusion of any form of DRM was to be left to the publishers and developers and Sony has no plans of introducing a uniform system of DRM of any kind as with every previous generation of Sony hardware. As for the PSVita having no gaems, it's an old joke mainly because it has gaems, just not a lot of them. As for the sales, sure, they're low - we're all hoping they'll kick off soon.


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## Gahars (May 27, 2013)

lovewiibrew said:


> Bend over and take it.


 

A colon crunching for a colon crunching leaves the whole world seriously clogged up.


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## lovewiibrew (May 27, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> But... _it is_ an unjustified rumour. In fact, Sony made a statement back in February concerning DRM that goes _completely_ against this rumour - inclusion of any form of DRM was to be left to the publishers and developers and Sony has no plans of introducing a uniform system of DRM of any kind as with every previous generation of Sony hardware. As for the PSVita having no gaems, it's an old joke mainly because it has gaems, just not a lot of them. As for the sales, sure, they're low - we're all hoping they'll kick off soon.


 
Well I certainly hope that is the case, foxi. I want to see all 3 consoles do good. All 3 current systems offer something different. I guess I just don't understand how people get so religious over a certain console. I love having them all.



Gahars said:


> A colon crunching for a colon crunching leaves the whole world seriously clogged up.


I'm not trying to be mean or offensive, Gahars. I just don't understand how some people can be such a zealot about a console.


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## Foxi4 (May 27, 2013)

lovewiibrew said:


> Well I certainly hope that is the case, foxi. I want to see all 3 consoles do good. All 3 current systems offer something different. I guess I just don't understand how people get so religious over a certain console. I love having them all.


 
Perhaps getting religious is the wrong term. I'm known for being a doom preacher around here, but I only comment negatively on features and strategies that I find to be detrimental to gaming overall. For example, I'm excited to see how the Kinect 2.0 will be used _in conjunction_ with the standard XBox controller _(which is how the Kinect should've been used from the start rather than as an independent controller)_ but I'm not so thrilled about Microsoft's patent to count the viewers in a given room when renting movies online _(and I hope they will not implement it because my house is not a cinema and my guests should not be expected to pay for a movie rental)_. I'm excited for the possibilities the Wii U's gamepad brings to the gaming scene, much less excited by the fact that the Wii U is going to lag behind its competition in terms of specs.

There are definitely things that the core competitors could learn from each other - they shouldn't try to be different in areas where _"good"_ ways of handling things have been found. Sony's strategy of _"paid Online that gives benefits in form of games and special offers"_ should be implemented by Microsoft which still believes that a subscription-based Online that merely gives you the priviledge to play Multiplayer games _you already own_ is a good idea. Similarily Nintendo should stop focusing on the tip of their own nose and should start making consoles and games rather than consoles that play _their_ games, which is what Mr.Iwata once stated himself. They need to embrace third-party developers and their needs and cater to them because the Wii U clearly doesn't have the push the Wii did and so far, it's on the same course the Gamecube took, and that was a disaster. As for Sony, all I really ask for is a console that doesn't commit suicide after a week of usage - the hardware is already great, now cool it in a sensible fashion, not like the early PS3 systems.


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

lovewiibrew said:


> I'm not trying to be mean or offensive, Gahars. I just don't understand how some people can be such a zealot about a console.


 


That's easy! Each console represents a different philosophy on gaming. Some see that and some don't. Normally I subscribe to the Nintendo philosophy but their recent actions with Wii U has pushed me into waiting to next year at the earliest, to even consider buying a Wii U. when it comes to Ouya I love the openness of the system and the fact that any and everyone can make a game for it.

As a developer I can honestly say that the industry has a shitty way of building up new talent, especially when that talent comes from less than ideal life circumstances. It's worse than the WWE and that company has been having a hard time turning new wrestlers into legitimate stars. There's too much of this frat boy mentality and if you're not in the clique, you don't get in. I love that the Indy scene is growing and SHAME on Microsoft for trying to fuck over Indy developers. Sony surprised me a few months ago when they mentioned that they would be open to Indy developers and I remember reading about Nintendo trying to do the same.


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## air2004 (May 27, 2013)

So let me get this straight . Person 1 buys a game new and the producer of said game will offer forever online play to person 1 ?
But before that can happen , person 1 realizes that his purchase wasn't such a smart choice ( lack of a demo , demo only let you play the good parts of the game ... kind of like a movie preview )
So person 1 decides to sell his/her game at a loss .
Person 2 buys it , because he/she was sucked into the same trap as person 1 .
Why should the publisher , or MS make any profit off this transaction again ? ???


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## ShadowSoldier (May 27, 2013)

air2004 said:


> So let me get this straight . Person 1 buys a game new and the producer of said game will offer forever online play to person 1 ?
> But before that can happen , person 1 realizes that his purchase wasn't such a smart choice ( lack of a demo , demo only let you play the good parts of the game ... kind of like a movie preview )
> So person 1 decides to sell his/her game at a loss .
> Person 2 buys it , because he/she was sucked into the same trap as person 1 .
> Why should the publisher , or MS make any profit off this transaction again ? ???


 
Because liek, the used game market is liek, hurting the games industry man!


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## Veho (May 27, 2013)

air2004 said:


> So let me get this straight . Person 1 buys a game new and the producer of said game will offer forever online play to person 1 ?
> But before that can happen , person 1 realizes that his purchase wasn't such a smart choice ( lack of a demo , demo only let you play the good parts of the game ... kind of like a movie preview )
> So person 1 decides to sell his/her game at a loss .
> Person 2 buys it , because he/she was sucked into the same trap as person 1 .
> Why should the publisher , or MS make any profit off this transaction again ? ???


Because online support is a service and the service provider can charge for it any way they want, even if the business model they choose may cost them profit in the long run.


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Because liek, the used game market is liek, hurting the games industry man!


 

Bullshit!

Nothing against you ShadowSoldier but everything against that sentiment, developers have about used games. We have had used games for a looooong time and NOW, all of a sudden they say that used games are hurting them. Sounds like a bunch of money grubbing mutha*uckas if you ask me.


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## FAST6191 (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> Bullshit!
> 
> Nothing against you ShadowSoldier but everything against that sentiment, developers have about used games. We have had used games for a looooong time and NOW, all of a sudden they say that used games are hurting them. Sounds like a bunch of money grubbing mutha*uckas if you ask me.



Your sarcasm detector must be on the fritz LightyKD.


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Your sarcasm detector must be on the fritz LightyKD.


 

Yup! I'm malfunctioning. "bzzt bzzt"


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## ShadowSoldier (May 27, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> Bullshit!
> 
> Nothing against you ShadowSoldier but everything against that sentiment, developers have about used games. We have had used games for a looooong time and NOW, all of a sudden they say that used games are hurting them. Sounds like a bunch of money grubbing mutha*uckas if you ask me.


 
Am I supposed to reply to that?


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## Elrinth (May 27, 2013)

Well the ugly thing about PS3 is, you can install your downloaded PSNetwork 4 times and on different consoles.... So say you have got 3 friends... You can share your four accounts between each other, that way, only one of you have to buy the game in order to install and play it... You can even play the installed game via your own account even if it's bought and installed via your friends account.

As a consumer, this is great, but for developers and Sony it was probably not a great idea. Losing a couple of sales thanks to this.


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## EZ-Megaman (May 27, 2013)

Elrinth said:


> Well the ugly thing about PS3 is, you can install your downloaded PSNetwork 4 times and on different consoles.... So say you have got 3 friends... You can share your four accounts between each other, that way, only one of you have to buy the game in order to install and play it... You can even play the installed game via your own account even if it's bought and installed via your friends account.
> 
> As a consumer, this is great, but for developers and Sony it was probably not a great idea. Losing a couple of sales thanks to this.


Didn't Sony impose a limit of one purchased game only being downloadable on two consoles? I guess people could still share it with their friends, but only once.


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## xist (May 27, 2013)

EZ-Megaman said:


> Didn't Sony impose a limit of one purchased game only being downloadable on two consoles? I guess people could still share it with their friends, but only once.



You can activate and deactivate accounts as required. It's a concurrent limit not an all time one.


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## SnAQ (May 27, 2013)

I've been thinking the exact same thing actually.
I decided to NOT buy the Xbone since you know, I already have a htpc which allows me to play ANYTHING (media-wise) and the used game fee made me 100% certain, so I said to myself (what a wonderful woooorld...) that IF I'll buy another console this gen (already got a WiiU) it´ll be the PS4, but if the PS4 has the same bullshit I won´t buy that either.


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## Bobbybangin (May 27, 2013)

With $ony having already filed a patent to prevent used games ( http://www.ibtimes.com/sony-files-patent-curb-access-used-video-games-1005876 ), I don't find this surprising at all. In fact, that only gives me reason to believe this is closer to the truth than rumor. I also find it funny to see how many people have been jumping all over the other consoles rumor trains but want off of this one. $ony had done gone drm mad a long time ago. Don't see what's so hard to believe about this. Mi¢rosoft news and temporary stock market results aren't going to deter what has probably amounted to several years worth of planning and development by $ony for this next gen. $ony also knows they have the strongest fanboy market out there. They will do fine in sales regardless of what drm features they implement due to the fact that they have so many loyal observers who will blindly purchase any console that has that logo stamped on it. They are being shrewd and playing it safe by releasing so little info on the PS4, which would have served M$ well to do the same. It might be a new console but I think we can expect the same old $ony.


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## Ryupower (May 27, 2013)

Gamers make it clear to Sony they want a DRM-free PS4

Sony has to see gamers do not like DRM, if they want the system to sell well
it still will sell with DRM but it will sell better without DRM


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## McHaggis (May 27, 2013)

The only people I see losing out on this are the sellers, anyway.  Think about it; if a nominal charge is added by Microsoft/Sony once you buy a used game, that charge would logically cause the used value of the game to drop, resulting in a lower over-the-counter price for the consumer, with the difference made up by the re-activation fee (or whatever).  Otherwise, the sale of used games within a couple of months after release would completely stall because it would work out just as well to buy the game new.  The seller has to cut this price out of their margin if they want to sell and, well that's something I'm OK with if I'm honest.

Not that I'm going to buy an Xbox One (because I'm unlikely to).  I might buy a PS4, though, but I doubt there's much truth to this rumour.


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## Qtis (May 27, 2013)

Bobbybangin said:


> With $ony having already filed a patent to prevent used games ( http://www.ibtimes.com/sony-files-patent-curb-access-used-video-games-1005876 ), I don't find this surprising at all. In fact, that only gives me reason to believe this is closer to the truth than rumor. I also find it funny to see how many people have been jumping all over the other consoles rumor trains but want off of this one. $ony had done gone drm mad a long time ago. Don't see what's so hard to believe about this. Mi¢rosoft news and temporary stock market results aren't going to deter what has probably amounted to several years worth of planning and development by $ony for this next gen. $ony also knows they have the strongest fanboy market out there. They will do fine in sales regardless of what drm features they implement due to the fact that they have so many loyal observers who will blindly purchase any console that has that logo stamped on it. They are being shrewd and playing it safe by releasing so little info on the PS4, which would have served M$ well to do the same. It might be a new console but I think we can expect the same old $ony.


I know, NFC is like the most secure tech available! That'll teach the customers for trying to pirate share games on offline consoles! $ony is almost as bad as M$, who are purely as bad as the MAFIAA and APPL€! pff..


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## Gahars (May 27, 2013)

And now the rumors are stating that Sony will not be using such a system.

Remember, kids - you can always find rumors that conform to your biases. Don't consider anything open-and-shut until it's actually opened and shut.


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## McHaggis (May 27, 2013)

Qtis said:


> I know, NFC is like the most secure tech available! That'll teach the customers for trying to pirate share games on offline consoles! $ony is almost as bad as M$, who are purely as bad as the MAFIAA and APPL€! pff..


 
Don't forget Nint¥do!


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## Rayder (May 27, 2013)

Ok, so say Sony does pull the same DRM thing as MS on used games, it doesn't matter.  Some game will come along with purty graphics that everyone will go gaga for and it will sell anyway.  The systems will be bought anyway.  The fees will be payed anyway.  Brainwashed gamers will not be able to help themselves.  It doesn't matter if these companies are bending them over and giving them the big mamba jamba, all they'll see with their bulging eyes, as they are being pounded,  is the latest "must have" graphics show and the gamers will continue to bend over and take it.  Grump, complain and bitch, sure, but continue to let these companies dry hump them for every penny they can.  Reach down your throat, out your ass, grab your wallet and rip the works back through.  

It's easy for people to complain and SAY they aren't going to buy a PS4 or XBone, but they will.  Nobody actually speaks with their wallet like they SAY they will.  They open it up because they believe that purty game is a MUST HAVE.  That they cannot live without some silly game that means NOTHING to the real world.  The industry has brainwashed gamers very thoroughly.  They will not be able to resist that purty game, which is just exactly what they are counting on.  Gamers will buy that half game and then pay extra for all the DLC to get the rest of the game just like they've been trained to do this generation. 

I, on the other hand, HAVE been speaking with my wallet. I woke up many years ago from the attempted brainwashing the industry was trying to impose on me. I haven't bought a console since the PS1 and I never plan to buy another ever again.  I refuse to buy digitally distributed games.  I have never bought any DLC for any game.  I will not tolerate draconian restrictions being put on the games I play. That is what speaking with your wallet means.

I have a 40 year backlog of games I can play for free, with no DRM, no phoning in my statuses, no one telling me I can't play the games, no nickel-and-diming me for DLC to complete some half game,  and no foreign objects penetrating the nether regions.  I will just play that 40 year backlog and to hell with modern games and systems.


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## FAST6191 (May 27, 2013)

Rayder said:


> I have a 40 year backlog of games I can play for free, with no DRM, no phoning in my statuses, no one telling me I can't play the games, no nickel-and-diming me for DLC to complete some half game,  and no foreign objects penetrating the nether regions.  I will just play that 40 year backlog and to hell with modern games and systems.



Though I can certainly get behind the sentiment I have been left rushing off to the find manuals, fiddle with cardboard wheels like I might get in cereal packets and "expansion packs" for quite some time at this point.


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## Skelletonike (May 27, 2013)

Well, it won't really affect me since I don't buy that many used games, only used games I've bought were because I couldn't find them new anywhere else. It's always better to have a shiny new game. xP

When it's not for those reasons I only buy DS used games since they're cartridges, used CD's or DVD's are a big no normally... x.x


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## LightyKD (May 27, 2013)

Rayder said:


> -SNIP-
> 
> I have a 40 year backlog of games I can play for free, with no DRM, no phoning in my statuses, no one telling me I can't play the games, no nickel-and-diming me for DLC to complete some half game, and no foreign objects penetrating the nether regions. I will just play that 40 year backlog and to hell with modern games and systems.


 

I like your mindset! This is the reason why I'm happy with my Wii, will be getting a Ouya and MIGHT consider a Wii U next year, in hopes that it will be properly hacked by then. I don't mind digital games as they allow me to not have to deal with moving media (disc) anymore. lately I have been very fond of the pricing of Android games and I loved the occasional 5 USD game OnLive would release. When it comes to OnLive I see it as paying them to "use their computer" Sure, I can install the same games on my Wife's PC but it's HER computer and I feel weird doing such. As long as they continue the way they are in regards to game contracts (as long as you pay for said game you don't lose it, if it get removed from service) I will be happy.

I REFUSE to pay 50-70 dollars for a game. I refuse to have console manufacturers tell me what to do. I refuse to be spied on by ANY company (minus Google, I actually like have ads catered to me. I like to shop!). The industry, minus the Indy scene, is going down the shitter and the whole situation is depressing.


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## VMM (May 27, 2013)

Ergo said:


> This is so far disconnected from reality that I'm only going to say: a couple of years of profits on PS3 *do not* make up for billions upon billions of losses incurred due to years of running their game division so far into the red** it ate away *all* the profits from the PS1 and 2 combined (source?) *. If that's your 'proof' that Sony's game biz isn't run by (badly) trained monkeys (the head of which for most of those years is now the president of Sony as a whole), you need to try a lot harder.
> 
> (Psst: Sony was able to float the company on profits from PS2 for a number of years when other divisions were bombing, but with the collapse of the gaming division circa PS3, that is exactly what brought Sony to its knees once their only useful division ate it due to overwhelming arrogance and stupidity.) *source?*
> 
> ...


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## Walker D (May 27, 2013)

Did the Twitter waves initiated by NeoGaf got any response from someone at Sony?


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 27, 2013)

Sony already said that blocking used games would be completely up to the publisher as an optional thing....

Let's think about that one for a moment, EA? Yeah lol gonna be mandatory you know it. Other publishers may or may not use the system but I am going to say it's pretty much going to be universal in it's appeal to a publisher. Three parties gain something from used game sales. The seller (the original owner of the game.) The store who buys the used game, marks it up a bit and sells it. Last but not least the person who buys the used game gains something.

Publishers will see no reason not to make the attempt to force you to buy only new games. Being optional is just a sneaky way of saying "It's not our fault, yell at the publisher!"

So yeah it's optional! figuratively speaking of course.

Edit: Almost forgot to add, the reason EA has stopped with the whole online pass thing, they don't see a need for it anymore. Why make some one buy an online pass for a used game when you can just make them buy a whole new game instead!

Edit 2: 

All this talk about blocking used games reminds me of the Matrix lol 



Just replace the battery with a dollar bill.


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## Hop2089 (May 27, 2013)

If it's up to the publisher I may not be affected, almost all of the hate towards used games isn't in Japan but in the West, and used games are big in Japan so I doubt they'll infuriate their fanatical fanbase by blocking used games, however it shouldn't be implemented anywhere, it will kill rentals as well so no Gamefly.


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## FAST6191 (May 27, 2013)

Hop2089 said:


> it will kill rentals as well so no Gamefly.



Though I do not doubt they will probably try something on to work around gamefly and co there is nothing stopping gamefly from sending out discs and them generating one time passwords. The rental industry is already quite well regulated.


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## xist (May 28, 2013)

Rayder said:


> I, on the other hand, HAVE been speaking with my wallet. I woke up many years ago from the attempted brainwashing the industry was trying to impose on me. I haven't bought a console since the PS1 and I never plan to buy another ever again. I refuse to buy digitally distributed games. I have never bought any DLC for any game. I will not tolerate draconian restrictions being put on the games I play. That is what speaking with your wallet means.
> 
> I have a 40 year backlog of games I can play for free, with no DRM, no phoning in my statuses, no one telling me I can't play the games, no nickel-and-diming me for DLC to complete some half game, and no foreign objects penetrating the nether regions. I will just play that 40 year backlog and to hell with modern games and systems.


 
It's a shame you stopped there...the PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube generation had none of the gubbins you dislike and hosted some cast iron quality gaming. You could almost retire on that generation alone....toss in the DS and PSP and you're golden. That's where i'm at (original Xbox, PS2, PSP(+emulation) and DS.....pretty much set for life console wise.

Also for the sake of making the topic immense -


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## ShadowSoldier (May 28, 2013)

I'm surprised nobody's brought up that Xbox One is region locked.... considering this thread has gone everywhere else.


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## LightyKD (May 28, 2013)

xist said:


> It's a shame you stopped there...the PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Gamecube generation had none of the gubbins you dislike and hosted some cast iron quality gaming. You could almost retire on that generation alone....toss in the DS and PSP and you're golden. That's where i'm at (original Xbox, PS2, PSP(+emulation) and DS.....pretty much set for life console wise.
> 
> Also for the sake of making the topic immense -


 


Stick the Wii into that mix. Not many games used DLC and there were some damn good treasures on that system. If I end up saying "I'm DONE" My wii and Ouya will be the last two systems I will own.


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## ggyo (May 28, 2013)

Ryupower said:


> Gamers make it clear to Sony they want a DRM-free PS4
> 
> Sony has to see gamers do not like DRM, if they want the system to sell well
> it still will sell with DRM but it will sell better without DRM


Unfortunately, if they're selling their consoles (especially the PS4) at a subsidized price in which they only profit from software, then DRM is a wise business choice, even if not consumer friendly.

Let's do the scenario calculations. Keep in mind that Sony (Microsoft AND Nintendo) only profit from NEW game sales. This is assuming that DRM costs will be equal to retail price.

DRM ON:
People who buy NEW games will
-continue to buy NEW games

People who buy USED games
-Will be forced to buy NEW games
-Will buy no games

If console manufacturers don't profit from hardware, and their only prospective profitable demographics are those who buy NEW games, then those who buy USED games are worthless to them, and won't be missed (besides on Xbox with Live subscriptions).

DRM could only be positive for NEW game sales, unless I'm missing something (which I probably am).


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## xist (May 28, 2013)

ggyo said:


> DRM could only be positive for NEW game sales, unless I'm missing something (which I probably am).


 
The option of buying used allows people to get a taster of an older entry of a series and then if they like it they may often buy into the later releases. It's perfect for more casual gamers who see new games as unknown risks and the return of new game sales that may have been spurred by used game tasters is unquantifiable. For that matter as is the turnaround of cash obtained from trading in games being put back into new games. Used games come from somewhere, and if those people are using their returns to buy more new games then it still amounts to more sales of new games.

Furthermore chuck in the idea of console legacy or archival and opposing the used game market really makes the lasting impact of a new system look decidedly shaky.


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## PsyBlade (May 28, 2013)

ggyo said:


> DRM could only be positive for NEW game sales, unless I'm missing something (which I probably am).


Yes, you forgot that the used games must come from somewhere
(And that peoples games budget will not grow just because you want it to)

Someone who is used to buying at 70$ and later selling at 30$ is effectively paying 40$.
If selling is no longer an option he might very well wait till the price drops to that 40$.

Same goes even more for the ones who used to buy the used games.
They are already used to wait till the price drops.

Even if they decide to buy earlier at a higher price the money they have available will not magically multiply.
If their effective cost of the games doubles I expect most to buy about only half as much games.

Assuming they now sell them half as much games for the same total money they save half the production cost of the game disks.
Which is nothing when compared to things like development or marketing costs.


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## Foxi4 (May 28, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I'm surprised nobody's brought up that Xbox One is region locked.... considering this thread has gone everywhere else.


 
The fact that region locks are still in effect when literally every TV nowadays is 16:9 and compatible with both PAL and NTSC is really beyond me.


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