# Would you call Francois Legault a "racist"?



## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

Hello
So yea, Francois Legault, the new Prime Minister of Province of Quebec since October 2018,
has been called a "racist" by many external medias, such as from other provinces, but also other countries
Why would you ask?
Because he do his job, he do want he said he would do...
He said he would ban all religious sign from states employees such as teachers and policemen
The project of laws has been voted this morning, only few hours before this post

He also wants to vote a proejct of laws about immigration, focing immigrants to learn French (primary language of Quebec)

So... just because he wants to protect our values, values of all Quebecois, he is called a racist by many
And you, would you call him a racist for such actions as prime minister?


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## AmandaRose (Mar 28, 2019)

I can see his point but trying to force a language onto people is a little bit racist even if he doesn't intend it to be.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

AmandaRose said:


> I can see his point but trying to force a language onto people is a little bit racist even if he doesn't intend it to be.


yea well, right now, all the laws says is that if you don't speak french, you can't have a job in contact with customers

With this law, immigrants will have 3 years to learn basics french
My cousin in law is from Australia and he learned a very good french, not just basic, in about 18 months
So, with a bit of effort, I'm pretty sure anyone can do it too


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## linuxares (Mar 28, 2019)

Of course you should be FORCED to learn the language of the country you live in. It's just backwards thinking not to adapt to the society you live in.


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## CallmeBerto (Mar 28, 2019)

I don't think so.

If you plan to live in a country it makes sense to learn its primary language for easier integration. I'm ok with the banning of all religious sign from states employees such as teachers and policemen due to the fact that they are public servants and should be neutral.


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## Viri (Mar 28, 2019)

If I wanted to immigrate to Germany, I'd try to learn a bit of basic German before moving there. If you wanna move to another country, learn the damn language. If you don't learn the language of a country you're moving to, you're just making things harder for yourself, and will most likely become a burden on society there.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

Viri said:


> If I wanted to immigrate to Germany, I'd try to learn a bit of basic German before moving there. If you wanna move to another country, learn the damn language. If you don't learn the language of a country you're moving to, you're just making things harder for yourself, and will most likely become a burden on society there.


I don't know if that'S what you meant
but what Legault wants to do is allowing immigrant in Quebec
even if they don'T speak french
However, they'll have 3 years to learn french, here in Quebec

Plus, if I got it right, there will be a system of "points" for immigrants
For exemple, if you already speak french, you get more points
As I said in another thread, if here in Quebec we need people who do tiny-soldering
and if an immigrant is qualified to do that, he'll get more point as well

The more points your family owns, the quicker your case will be treated
and the sooner you'll immigrate


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## DinohScene (Mar 28, 2019)

Whilst I'm convinced that the whole world would be better of speaking English, forcing a language upon someone isn't a bad thing.

Say you're moving to Qatar or Kazakhstan and the only language they speak is Arabic or Kazakh, you've got to adapt to the language over there to be able to do groceries or even survive.
What if you've got a deadly peanut allergy?, knowing the language enough to know what packet contains peanuts would be a life saver.

No, calling someone racist for trying to create a better local society by making immigrants speak the local language is nonsense.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 28, 2019)

If I only have what has been said here to go on.

It is not racist to exclude a religion -- religion is not a race. It might be religiously intolerant but at the same time there are plenty of places that force the government, and agents thereof when conducting their official business, to be secular and if this falls under that.

Language. I find Quebec endlessly amusing here, and most of its laws on language to be bad -- Quebec almost seems to fetishise its language, and in doing so constantly fear that it will go away if it is not compelled at sorts of levels, and that crosses over into all sorts of bad laws. This would be one of them. While it is good to learn the majority language of where you are at I am not wanting to see such a thing be compelled legally*, and definitely not if you are already a citizen of the country.

*some more in depth thoughts here https://gbatemp.net/threads/should-...untry-learn-its-language.533055/#post-8541944 . Depending upon what Quebec has as far as autonomy to control immigration then I would also say it should be of limited interest at best for a big boy working visa.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> If I only have what has been said here to go on.
> 
> It is not racist to exclude a religion -- religion is not a race. It might be religiously intolerant but at the same time there are plenty of places that force the government, and agents thereof when conducting their official business, to be secular and if this falls under that.
> 
> ...


it's not excluding "A" religion, but rather exclude ALL religions, including christianism
As for "religion isn't a race", how would you call intolerance toward religion?
Whatever you say, be aware that everyone say it's racism anyway

I don't know why you find Quebec amusing, we try to protect our patrimony like all country
that's nothing amusing, it's just normal...


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## Alexander1970 (Mar 28, 2019)

> *Would you call Francois Legault a "racist"?*



No.He is trying that to what our leaders in the EU are to dumb:

PROTECT the country´s VALUES.
PROTECT the soul,the spirit,the heart of an culture.
PROTECT the country that not the same happend like to most countries in Europe.

YES,he is the man.

If a leader do this in Europe he would be stoned to death.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> it's not excluding "A" religion, but rather exclude ALL religions, including christianism
> As for "religion isn't a race", how would you call intolerance toward religion?
> Whatever you say, be aware that everyone say it's racism anyway
> 
> ...



Hence the part about enforcing a secular government and saying it falls under that.

Religious intolerance. I said it in the original post.
So people don't know the meaning of words and try to use the wrong one, possibly diminishing the potency of the word in the process. Oh well.

No. I think most of Quebec's language laws and enforcements of language go above and beyond what most other places on earth, certainly places where most would care to live. There are endless examples of them prosecuting for absolutely minor nonsense here (what was that thing with the straws in a small restaurant a while back?). Similarly the frequent agitation for it in higher levels in Canadian government, effectively making it such that any would be politicos have to speak the language... never mind what that political party you were so excited about had in their manifesto.
If they want to encourage their population to learn French then so be it. Do it with soft means -- give extra funds to teach it, pay for radio/TV/whatever to use it, ensure everything that is reasonable to translate be translated, stock libraries with French books, fund/heavily incentivise newspapers to have a French language edition... things that most other places do when they want to try to help nurture a language.


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## Viri (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> I don't know if that'S what you meant
> but what Legault wants to do is allowing immigrant in Quebec
> even if they don'T speak french
> However, they'll have 3 years to learn french, here in Quebec


That seems fair. You should learn the language of the land, if you wanna stay there. 3 years is a generous amount of time.


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## Dust2dust (Mar 28, 2019)

DinohScene said:


> Whilst I'm convinced that the whole world would be better of speaking English, forcing a language upon someone isn't a bad thing.


I've always had the same opinion.  If everyone on earth was speaking only one language (be it english or esperanto, or whatever) it would certainly help world peace. According to the bible, it used to be like that, then people started to build the Babel tower to reach heaven, and God, in his wisdom, decided to f**k it all up by having people speak hundreds of different tongues so they couldn't understand each other.  What a jerk!  That's why we need to eliminate religions too, for world peace.


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## DinohScene (Mar 28, 2019)

Dust2dust said:


> I've always had the same opinion.  If everyone on earth was speaking only one language (be it english or esperanto, or whatever) it would certainly help world peace. According to the bible, it used to be like that, then people started to build the Babel tower to reach heaven, and God, in his wisdom, decided to f**k it all up by having people speak hundreds of different tongues so they couldn't understand each other.  What a jerk!  That's why we need to eliminate religions too, for world peace.



Not religious but I've heard of that story!


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## leon315 (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> yea well, right now, all the laws says is that if you don't speak french, you can't have a job in contact with customers
> 
> With this law, immigrants will have 3 years to learn basics french
> My cousin in law is from Australia and he learned a very good french, not just basic, in about 18 months
> So, with a bit of effort, I'm pretty sure anyone can do it too


Yet another incentive way to have people to improve. WOW, this guy is awesome!

I really envy that you have a such politician: you shouldn't really work at shops or waiter in restaurants since you don't understand the local languages and THUS can't take any requests.


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## The Real Jdbye (Mar 28, 2019)

I don't think religion should be forced onto people in their daily lives so I'm fine with this. Feel free to believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn't bother anyone.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Yet another incentive way to have people to improve. WOW, this guy is awesome!
> 
> I really envy that you have a such politician: you shouldn't really work at shops or waiter in restaurants since you don't understand the local languages and i can't take any requests.


I remember an humorist telling this in a talk show
He said he went to groceries store
It was a small one that just opened
He took his stuff, went to the cashier
And the woman told him the price in english
He said ''Quoi?'' What in french
She repeated in english
He left the food there and said 
Désolé je ne paye pas en anglaid
Sorry i dont pay in english

I guess the store closed shortly after
He named it and said where it was, hahaha


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## Viri (Mar 28, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I don't think religion should be forced onto people in their daily lives so I'm fine with this. Feel free to believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn't bother anyone.


Pretty much my thought. Religion and state should be separate, and people should be free to believe in w/e they want, as long as it doesn't harm anyone. Nobody should have religion forced onto them, and anyone should be free to tell any religious person to "fuck off" if they want to.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

I remember years ago, there was a comission about religious stuff

There was that family called Pineault-Carron
They traveled in a muslim country and they were shocked
They were like
We entered a mosque and they told us to take away our shoes....
What the hell was that
Then, they separated womem and men...
What the hell was that
Then they started praying by touching the floor with their forehead
Again, what the hell was that

They kept on like that for dozens of minutes
They were ignorant family who became some kind of symbol here in quebec
A bad symbol of ignorance

Hell, they even talked about ''Musulmanie''
Like if muslim were inhabitant of a country
They were just dumb...


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## Nerdtendo (Mar 28, 2019)

Well if it was America I would say forcing religion out of States is oppressive because of how America was founded.

I say that to say, from an American perspective, it is incredibly oppressive but I can't speak for other countries.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

Nerdtendo said:


> Well if it was America I would say forcing religion out of States is oppressive because of how America was founded.
> 
> I say that to say, from an American perspective, it is incredibly oppressive but I can't speak for other countries.


Yea well, with that new project of law
Theyll take away the cross at the assembly

Personally, im against that because the cross at assembly isnt really a religious sign
To my eyes, it rather is an history sign
A sign about how the quebec was founded


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## leon315 (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> I remember an humorist telling this in a talk show
> He said he went to groceries store
> It was a small one that just opened
> He took his stuff, went to the cashier
> ...


Funny, I heard similar story too, people in baguette land usually do that, but I never expected that in Canada: they must know they are Canadian and they are not French.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Funny, I heard similar story too, people in baguette land usually do that, but I never expected that in Canada: they must know they are Canadian and they are not French.


Not sure to get what you mean here
You know primary language in canada are both french and english?


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## leon315 (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> Not sure to get what you mean here
> You know primary language in canada are both french and english?


Baguette was create by french, so baguette land is France;
so...
SpaghettiNutellapizza land=?
Hamburger land=?
Taco land=?
Springs roll land=?
Whale Sushi land=?


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Baguette was create by french, so baguette land is France;
> so...
> SpaghettiNutellapizza land=?
> Hamburger land=?
> ...


Yea i got that
Its the part about canada i dont get


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

wow, Trudeau said that this project of law was discrimination
But... no... it will apply to ALL religions, I don't see discrimination here


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## Viri (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> wow, Trudeau said that this project of law was discrimination
> But... no... it will apply to ALL religions, I don't see discrimination here


Isn't his approval rating in the toilet, and will probably be voted out soon?


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## Noctosphere (Mar 28, 2019)

Viri said:


> Isn't his approval rating in the toilet, and will probably be voted out soon?


Well, I'm not sure, but I think Sheer is leading the polls
But I'm not sure
I wouldn't be surprised though...
As for Quebec federal votes, I don't know now
Yesterday, Trudeau mocked a native woman who disturbed a meeting for manifestation
Trudeau mocked her, so i don't know, I guess he dropped in polls

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

BTW, I saw a poll  very recently (2 or 3 days ago)
Legault is the most appreciated Prime Minister inside his province in the whole Canada
He's got 60% of approbation from quebecois 
I think Ford was among the latest 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Wow, just saw that at news
Polls say that the only province where Trudeau still leads
it's in Quebec, and even there, he is almost tied to Sheer


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## FAST6191 (Mar 28, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> Yea well, with that new project of law
> Theyll take away the cross at the assembly
> 
> Personally, im against that because the cross at assembly isnt really a religious sign
> ...


That gets to be a fun one actually.

In the UK there was a discussion some years back concerning the police. The various badges ( https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e7/d8/1e/e7d81e49ef319d7ae82e9f1782273c73.jpg for just a handful) they have feature a bunch of stuff from the royal family on it (because a lot of things have that in the UK) and one of those is a cross which is part of the crown. Some police of a non Christian religious persuasion then had questions and a debate of what it represented was had. At the same time at this point most of the UK is not religious ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-no-religion-british-social-attitudes-survey ) and Anglicanism (the religion the Royal Family heads and is technically the state religion) is even less than that. I don't know if the police are particularly different here (though most people that spend time doing a nasty job like policing tend to lean very much into religion, or have it kill stone dead any vestiges they may or may not have had).

Courts around the world have wrestled with the question of history vs religious iconography. They tend to come down on the "what does it mean to most people" side of things, and for that then for most the cross is still overwhelmingly a religious symbol, presumably then having to go if the government is to be secular. If history is to be recognised is there an old seal 
or something that could stand in?


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## dAVID_ (Mar 29, 2019)

Let's say there exists a country where all the inhabitants speak Esperanto.
As you may know Esperanto isn't a very popular language.
An Esperantian citizen travels to the U.S, and gets a job.
He calls his boss his racist because all the other workers won't adapt to him speaking Esperanto.
Therefore, they are racist.

Conclusion: Having a large amount of people not wanting to adapt to a small minority is racist!


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## CORE (Mar 29, 2019)

I wish I could speak Binary since most of us here are always on their Electronic Devices With things every changing and needing VPNs etc or Hacking Modding Consoles and Developing Homebrew


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## omgcat (Mar 29, 2019)

i get forcing a language, but why french? if it is for economic reasons, they should be speaking English (1.121 billion total speakers), Chinese (1.107 billion total speakers), or even Hindi. hell even Spanish (534.2 million total speakers) has almost twice as many speakers than french (284.9 million total speakers). This really doesn't seem to be a very good law when a majority of medium to large scale companies have cross border customer interaction which will predominantly be spoken in English or Chinese.


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## CORE (Mar 29, 2019)

@omgcat You are being Racist against French claiming that the language is less relevant than others I dont speak it myself other than


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## Viri (Mar 29, 2019)

omgcat said:


> i get forcing a language, but why french? if it is for economic reasons, they should be speaking English (1.121 billion total speakers), Chinese (1.107 billion total speakers), or even Hindi. hell even Spanish (534.2 million total speakers) has almost twice as many speakers than french (284.9 million total speakers). This really doesn't seem to be a very good law when a majority of medium to large scale companies have cross border customer interaction which will predominantly be spoken in English or Chinese.


Because Quebec is a French speaking province. If you don't want to learn it, don't try to immigrate there, immigrate elsewhere. There are plenty of options in Canada. Just because their language isn't relevant to you, or business side of things, doesn't mean it isn't relevant to their culture.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 30, 2019)

According to a poll, over 7 quebecois over 10 think Legault doesn't go far enough with that law project


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## Glyptofane (Mar 30, 2019)

I used to think France was just a bunch of pussies. The yellow vest movement and this guy prove they are woke as fuck. Italy and France are my hero nations currently.

Oh... French Canada. Nah, fuck that.


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## Subtle Demise (Mar 30, 2019)

Nerdtendo said:


> Well if it was America I would say forcing religion out of States is oppressive because of how America was founded.
> 
> I say that to say, from an American perspective, it is incredibly oppressive but I can't speak for other countries.


And how was it founded exactly? Is not the first line in the Bill of Rights "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"?


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Mar 31, 2019)

He's being called a "racist" because he said people need to learn French (the language used in Quebec)? If that's so, those calling him a "racist" are a bunch of retards. If you move to a new country then it's absolutely necessary to learn the local language so that you can actually talk, write and socialize with people there.

2019... Smh.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 31, 2019)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> He's being called a "racist" because he said people need to learn French (the language used in Quebec)? If that's so, those calling him a "racist" are a bunch of retards. If you move to a new country then it's absolutely necessary to learn the local language so that you can actually talk, write and socialize with people there.
> 
> 2019... Smh.


I think him being called racist is mostly related to the project of law banning religious sign from public employee in authority position...
Such as cops, teachers, prison guard, etc..


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## Subtle Demise (Mar 31, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> I think him being called racist is mostly related to the project of law banning religious sign from public employee in authority position...
> Such as cops, teachers, prison guard, etc..


But religion isn't a race. If it's about Islam, that's not a race either.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 31, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> But religion isn't a race. If it's about Islam, that's not a race either.


as said before, it's not about islam, it's about ALL religions


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## Subtle Demise (Mar 31, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> as said before, it's not about islam, it's about ALL religions


I still don't understand what the problem is. Does Canada's constitution have anything about religion? Here in the US, it's pretty clear that there can be no official religion, so maybe separation of church and state isn't that shocking to me.


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## Noctosphere (Mar 31, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> I still don't understand what the problem is. Does Canada's constitution have anything about religion? Here in the US, it's pretty clear that there can be no official religion, so maybe separation of church and state isn't that shocking to me.


well, thats rpetty much my point
Legault wants to separate religion and state even more
And people call him a racist


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## Subtle Demise (Mar 31, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> well, thats rpetty much my point
> Legault wants to separate religion and state even more
> And people call him a racist


Those people are dumb for 2 reasons: 1: religion isn't a race, and 2: nothing good has ever come from a government based in religion.


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## Noctosphere (Apr 4, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> Those people are dumb for 2 reasons: 1: religion isn't a race, and 2: nothing good has ever come from a government based in religion.


just look at middle-east countries...


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