# thaddius' Console Classic 2012 Edition: Round 9



## thaddius (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, well, well. Nintendo takes the cake once again. For more information look here.

Have you guys noticed that Nintendo has one EVERY poll since the third one? Interesting. Probably won't last, but it's interesting.

We should probably get to the poll. But first, as always, let's recap the rules!




Spoiler



Each week, video game history will be put to the test to see which console or handheld is the greatest. There can only be one!





Spoiler



Vote for your favourite and follow it through to the end as we try to determine GBATemp's favourite console/handheld!

Consoles and handhelds will face off in brackets comprised of their generation. Because there can only be one, in the event of a tie I will cast a tie-breaking vote. Once a winner has been declared for each generation, the console winners and the handheld winners will face off in individual brackets. Once an ultimate console and ultimate handheld have been chosen, they will face off against each other to see who is the greatest!

For a concrete example of the brackets, see the image at the bottom of this post.




So what's next? Chronologically, you guys can probably guess what we're dealing with this week. The sixth generation of consoles. This generation we'll see the fall of a once great company, the struggle of another great company, and an oddball entry into this generation's race. This generation needs no introduction. Most of you were alive for this generation.

Let's get to it, shall we?

*This Week's Challengers Are:*

*The Sega Dreamcast*





After pissing everyone off during the launch of the Saturn, Sega had some catching up to do. In 1998, Sega launched the Dreamcast to the Japanese public. Because of a graphics chip debacle that led to a shortage, Sega was unable to meet demand initially. Sega took a bit of a PR hit for that, but soon bounced back when the chip shortage stopped. North America's infamous 9/9/99 launch went spectacularly well. So well that most analysts at the time touted that Sega would probably be on top this time around due to their head start (let that be a note to all of you that video game market prognosticators are full of shit).

Soon though, sales began to drop. In response, Sega launched a number of incentive programs to get people to buy the system. By the end of 2000 they were practically giving them away as long as you signed up for a year of their online service, SegaNet.

While Sega had opted to go with the larger-than-CDs format called GD-ROMS, it was quickly discovered that if the games were backed up, they could be burned onto regular CDs and played on the console without modification. Sega soon launched versions of the system that had an added copy protection, but it may have been too late.

Dreamcast sales continued to drop, especially in 2000 as people were hotly anticipating the PlayStation 2. By early 2001, due to anticipation of the Nintendo's Gamecube and Microsoft's Xbox, sales dropped even more, and on January 31st, 2001, Sega announced that it would be stopping production of the Sega Dreamcast. While the system had a minor continued success in Europe, the console faded to cult status.

For a while the Dreamcast was a favourite for homebrew programmers, but since interest has waned. Interestingly enough, games are still being made for the system. One was released just last year.

The Dreamcast had some fantastic games on it. _Shenmue, Jet Grind Radio, Sonic Adventure, Skies of Arcadia, House of the Dead 2_ (and by extension, my favourite game, _Typing of the Dead_), ... I could go on. Their online gameplay, while not wholly original, was robust and revolutionary. All in all, if you own(ed) a Dreamcast like I do, you'd be stunned as to why the thing wasn't a success. The controller sucked though. True story.

The Dreamcast sold an estimated 10.6 million units, and it's best-selling game was, of course, Sonic Adventure.

*The Sony PlayStation 2*
*



*
The original PlayStation was hugely successful. Hell, it even managed to outsell the Nintendo 64 worldwide. But how do you top that?

With the PlayStation 2, Sony decided to focus on the new medium for movies and turn it into a 'multimedia system', and to that end made it so that your PS2 could double as a DVD player. This proved to be a boon to the console, and even led to people initially claiming that the best selling piece of software for the PS2 was The Matrix DVD. I would verify this rumour, but I can't find confirmation of it. Google searches just turn up info on _Enter the Matrix_.

The PlayStation 2 was released in 2000 to most territories for $299US. Due to manufacturer delays PS2s were initially very difficult to come by. Consoles started springing up on eBay for 3X their worth. Around this time the trend of duplicitously selling "NEW PLAYSTATION 2 box" on eBay for hundreds of dollars began; something that to this day is still a problem.

The PS2 had a cakewalk for most of it's life-cycle. With the Dreamcast effectively out of the way, the PS2 managed to outsell the Xbox and Gamecube during their shared lifespans, and went on to be the best selling console of all time. After the launch of the Wii, the PS2 was rebranded as a cheap Wii competitor, and focussed on selling games in the Guitar Hero series, quiz show games like Buzz, and the like.

The PlayStation 2 sold an estimated 154 million units worldwide and it's best-selling game was Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

*The Nintendo Gamecube*
*



*
The Nintendo Gamecube was released in 2001 and for the first time was not accompanied by their mascot, Mario. Instead_ Luigi's Mansion_ made it's debut as a rather poorly received tech demo of what the Gamecube was capable of.

One of the major complaints about the Nintendo 64 cost Nintendo the Final Fantasy series and, arguably, the lead in the fifth generation. To fix that error, Nintendo opted to abandon their cartridge based medium (for consoles anyway) and instead chose the mini-DVD for their newest console. While Nintendo chose the mini-DVD to combat piracy (as at the time blank mini-DVDs were hard to find until Sony released a camcorder that used them) their choice in medium once again shot them in the foot. The maximum amount of data the DVDs could hold was 1.8GB, compared to the 4+GB that regular DVDs could store. Because third parties thrived on the ability to port their games to different consoles, this led to some rather poor quality ports to the system that had lower resolution textures, or poorer quality audio than the Xbox or PS2 versions of the same game.

The Gamecube featured a handle for no detectable reason (I remember someone in high school saying it made it easier to smash one against the ground), and it had a controller that was once described by EGM as what it would look like if a robot threw up on a boomerang.

The Gamecube is noted for trying to shove connectivity down our throats, but was deemed unruly due to the total cost (a Gamecube, x number of GBAs, x number of cables). Despite that, there are an inordinate number of games that support that feature.

It didn't sell as well as the Xbox or the PS2, but the Gamcube still managed to sell an estimated 22 milliion units worldwide, and it's best-selling game was Super Smash Bros. Melee.


*The Microsoft Xbox*




Initially named the 'Direct X Box', for obvious reasons, Microsoft surprised a few people with the announcement of their beefy console. The development of the console was in hopes to create competition for the newly announced PS2 that was allegedly stealing a number of Windows developers away from them.

After a few delays, the system was launched first in North America in 2001, and later in Japan and Europe in 2002. In a surprising move, Microsoft roped the previously Mac-only developer, Bungie, into making a launch title for the system. Initially panned for it's repetitive levels and lacklustre gameplay, _Halo: Combat Evolved_ eventually became a system seller for the Xbox.

Building on the relative success of Sega's online infrastructure, SegaNet, Microsoft eventually launched Xbox LIVE, a subscription-based online service that would allow for online multiplayer. The most notable game to use this feature was, of course, _Halo 2_.

Due to the system's similarity to PCs at the time, the Xbox was very easily modified, and after doing so would play backups, as well as a myrid of homebrew applications and emulators. The Xbox could be used as a very versatile all-in-one media centre, whose only drawback was it's inability to display video in higher HD resolutions (as it pre-dated the so-called 'HD boom').

The Xbox enjoyed steady sales throughout it's lifespan amid slander about the size of it's first controller, and the quality of it's games. Despite all this it managed to round out the generation by selling more than the Gamecube. The Xbox sold an estimated 24 million units, and it's best selling game was, no surprises here, _Halo: Combat Evolved_.

*Housekeeping!!!*

So there you have it! Possibly one of the greatest generations of consoles. It was definitely the last one to have developers working on games for all three systems at the same time.

Don't forget to share an anecdote or two about your favourite console before you vote. And yeah, don'r forget to vote! I'll be reminding you to do so for the rest of the week. 

Here's how the brackets currently stand:




Who will win? It could be you!*

*note: it can't be you.

The poll will be closed on March 20th, so vote while you can!

EDIT: The poll is now closed! I'll be posting the results soon.


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## Smuff (Mar 13, 2012)

Dreamcast _in every way_, except commercial success due to the Sony sheep and their shovelware 

Online gaming, Broadband capability, Interactive controllers (via VMU), AAA arcade titles GALORE, Shenmue 1 (&2) - Ground breaking cinematic adventure RPGs as never before seen, fishing rods, maracas - you name it, the DC had it* first*.

More to the point, no SPYRO or BANDICOOT SHITE!

If only they had gone for DVD instead of that GD-R shit..........
Never mind.

Before all the Fony Fanboys get involved, how many DC games have been or are being re-released on xboxlive for example, compared to PS2 games ? Quality always shows it's pedigree eventually, even if it was unappreciated at the time.


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## DinohScene (Mar 13, 2012)

Xbox 1 is capable of displaying 720i and 1080i iirc.

Anyway my vote goes for the Xbox 1.
Simply because I still use it for a lot of stuff on this very day.
Besides it makes a great mediaplayer.


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## thaddius (Mar 13, 2012)

DinohScene said:


> Xbox 1 is capable of displaying 720i and 1080i iirc.


Wikipedia says it can do 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, and 1080i, but my Xbox has a bitch of a time running at 1080i; it just chugs. 720p still has some slowdown too. Basically, it's not much of an HD experience if that is what you're going for.


			
				[b said:
			
		

> SmuffTheMagicDragon][/b]Shenmue 1 *(&2)*



I smell a pirate!

EDIT: By the way, this is my FAVOURITE generation of consoles. All four systems are just fantastic. It's too bad that their games look like shite on a newer TV. Great games though. All around. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a 4-way tie.


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## Elrinth (Mar 13, 2012)

PS2 or Gamecube. As I never owned a PS2 I selected Gamecube. Super Smash Brothers Mayleeeee was awesome and me and a friend played it like crazies.
Dreamcast was doomed the day it was released here in europe, so it basically shot itself in the foot.


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## BoxmanWTF (Mar 13, 2012)

Dreamcast was freaking awesome, every game it had was amazing. Even the NAME is soothing, I miss Sega's creative names, they always had me proud to say whenever I went to a pawnshop to buy a game.
PS2 was even more amazing, with awesome hits and brand new series.
Never had a gamecube, or xbox.

DC got my vote though, with reliable online, awesome 4-way multiplayer games, and the greatest start up theme ever (that was totally stolen by nintendo) it was a system that should have thrived for decades >:C
PS2 would be my second choice, I loved all the games it had but since I never got to play them much (older brother hogging the PS2) Dreamcast was always my escape.


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## DinohScene (Mar 13, 2012)

thaddius said:


> DinohScene said:
> 
> 
> > Xbox 1 is capable of displaying 720i and 1080i iirc.
> ...



You could always opt for a 1.0-1.5 xbox and install a 64 MB RAM upgrade and a 1.4 Ghz Tualatin CPU.

The 64 MB of RAM is pretty simple but the CPU is a whole different story.

The Xbox 1 isn't perfect for HD playback indeed but it can be done at least (with some modifications)


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## thaddius (Mar 13, 2012)

DinohScene said:


> thaddius said:
> 
> 
> > DinohScene said:
> ...


While I'm not willing to amend my post, I will concede to you on the matter. I only know of what my stock-plus-modchip Xbox can do.


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## emigre (Mar 13, 2012)

PS2. MegaTen and MGS says hi.


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## Nah3DS (Mar 13, 2012)

this was the time were I was like "gaming it's too expensive for me" (my country was in a really shitty place at the moment), so I never owned any of those consoles

I guess I will go with the ps2 for the library of games (really good), but it has the same problems as the first one (bad controller, and slow as hell read speeds)
the gamecube is the worst home console nintendo has ever made... poor library of games and the controll sucks.
the xbox controller sucks for the same reason as the gamecube one (go figure)

LOL at 2011


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2012)

As much as I'd _like _to say Dreamcast, I really gotta vote PS2 - it's a no-brainer to me. _Most popular, longest live cycle, best sales, biggest library of titles, USB ports, HDD port add-on, modem add-on, full DVD support..._ what's _not _to like?



thaddius said:


> It's too bad that their games look like shite on a newer TV.


This is why every gamer should have at least one CRT TV at home.


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## Gahars (Mar 13, 2012)

The Playstation 2, obviously.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 13, 2012)

emigre said:


> PS2. MegaTen and MGS says hi.



Correction: Almost every goddamn game says hi.




SmuffTheMagicDragon said:


> Before all the Fony Fanboys get involved, how many DC games have been or are being re-released on xboxlive for example, compared to PS2 games ? Quality always shows it's pedigree eventually, even if it was unappreciated at the time.



God of War Collection (2 games)
Jak and Daxter Collection (3 games)
Metal Gear Solid HD Collection (2 games)
God Hand (pretty sure it got a PSN re-release) (1 game)
Team Ico Collection (2 games)
Resident Evil 4 (the Wii version is basically the PS2 version with Wii stuff on it and I'm pretty sure the HD version is too) (1 game)
Devil May Cry Collection (3 games)
Silent Hill Collection (2 games)
Tomb Raider Collection (right?) (3 games)
Final Fantasy X HD (1 game)
Total: 20 re-releases
Crazy Taxi
Space Channel 5 Pt 2
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Jet Set Radio
Skies of Arcadia
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Total: 8

There are a fuckload more PS2 games re-released than Dreamcast games.

Also, BECAUSE SONY FANS ARE TOTALLY BIASED AND YOU'RE TOTALLY NOT.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > PS2. MegaTen and MGS says hi.
> ...


Pretty much. All my friends at the time owned a PS2 while I waited patiently for the Cube. Finally I bought it and I was like "whoa" playing Sonic Adventure 2: Battle and some other rad titles... and then it died and I was like "whaaa? I want my gaemz!". Since then all the good games were out for PS2 and the Box only. I was really disappointed with its short life-cycle.


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## xist (Mar 13, 2012)

Just wondering how many people today use a GC as their main console compared to a PS2. I'd almost bet on the fact that there are far more PS2's being actively used as a primary machine than GC's.


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## Necron (Mar 13, 2012)

I didn't read. Ps2.



DinohScene said:


> Xbox 1 is capable of displaying 720i and 1080i iirc.


PS2 can do that too


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2012)

xist said:


> Just wondering how many people today use a GC as their main console compared to a PS2. I'd almost bet on the fact that there are far more PS2's being actively used as a primary machine than GC's.


Well, d'uh. DVD support, USB support, HDD support.

To properly use a Gamecube as a primary gaming machine you either need an IDE connector, an expensive miniDVD-to-DVD mod, have a Panasonic Q rather then a normal Cube or buy a Gecko.


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## prowler (Mar 13, 2012)

I pick PS2, it has a wide range of games to play from and just the best of the generation and it's still not been dropped by Sony.

also i love the dreamcast and all but it had like what 10 good titles, stop kidding yourselves





DinohScene said:


> Xbox 1 is capable of displaying 720i and 1080i iirc.


PS2 could also do 1080i. Gran Turismo 4, Tourist Trophy, Valkyria Profile 2 and Jackass say hi. Even though it's only four, it could be done.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 13, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Pretty much. All my friends at the time owned a PS2 while I waited patiently for the Cube. Finally I bought it and I was like "whoa" playing Sonic Adventure 2: Battle and some other rad titles... and then it died and I was like "whaaa? I want my gaemz!". Since then all the good games were out for PS2 and the Box only. I was really disappointed with its short life-cycle.



I only bought a PS2 after I got a Xbox 360 but it was still one of the best investments ever. The console was $60. The games are all under $10. Almost every game is amazing. I had a Gamecube as my last gen console pretty much and I still would never take it over a PS2. Only thing it had over the PS2 were exclusives that were no where near as good as the PS2's exclusives.

Also, "rad titles" is the greatest summary of Sega since... forever.


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## xist (Mar 13, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Well, d'uh. DVD support, USB support, HDD support.



You know that. I know that. Most sensible people know that. In fact the PS2 is still my main console (i'm yet to go current Gen)

I just want to get valid points made for future readers when the vote (inevitably?) goes South for the PS2, and people wonder whether we were all nuts.


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## prowler (Mar 13, 2012)

oh and also: When The Xbox Nearly Failed


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## raulpica (Mar 13, 2012)

PS2 as an all-round awesome console with great games, XBOX for homebrew possibilities.

The GC had some REALLY nice games, but most of them were Nintendo ones  

Third parties mostly deserted it, and that was a real shame. Still a really great console, who many Wii owners got to experience.



prowler said:


> oh and also: When The Xbox Nearly Failed


Sigh, how would I love a world where there is still a Sega console and no Microsoft one...


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2012)

xist said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, d'uh. DVD support, USB support, HDD support.
> ...


Ine*VITA*bly is a good word to describe it. For a while the Gamecube was already ahead of the PS2 until you, me, Gahars and Guild came along to rectify the situation.

You know how this is going to end. 

Also,

@[member='SmuffTheMagicDragon']

I am willing to admit that the Dreamcast was one of _the most interesting technological endeavours in Video Game history._ I'm even willing to say that it was_ the best equipped console of all time when it came to stock equipment, sporting a modem already in the box._ I'm willing to add that _using a PocketPC-Compatible CPU and making the console WindowsCE-Compatible was one of the riskiest and most interesting moves in Video Game history._ As a Dreamcast owner I'll even add that _it's a truckload of fun with loads of interesting titles._ As a Sega lover I'll say _it provided Sega with the best possible opportunity to transform the Sonic franchise and create an entirely new one - Sonic Adventure, in full breathtaking 3D._ Unfortunatelly I have to say with the same breath that _it failed_. Sega killed the console themselves by using GD-ROM's which were almost identical to CD-Rom's and too easy to pirate. In fact, the console had worse anti-piracy protection then the Saturn. Not only that, they basically withdrew from the fight themselves, choosing to be a software company. *I love the Dreamcast* but my vote goes to the PS2. It mopped the floor with the Dreamcast and didn't even break a sweat - sad but true.


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## EyeZ (Mar 13, 2012)

It has to be the PS2 for me due to the vast difference in time i spent playing on each console.


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## Smuff (Mar 13, 2012)

thaddius said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMFAO 

Quite true - I won't deny it, but I do genuinely own a large collection of Saturn and Dreamcast originals (Hardware and Software), and both my copies of Shenmue are _*GENUINE ORIGINALS*_. No2 cost me a pretty penny from eBay, I can tell you!

Once I get up in the loft I can provide photographic evidence if required


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## thaddius (Mar 14, 2012)

xist said:


> Just wondering how many people today use a GC as their main console compared to a PS2. I'd almost bet on the fact that there are far more PS2's being actively used as a primary machine than GC's.


I imagine the main reason for that is that Nintendo didn't bork their GC backwards compatibility on the Wii (until recently), whereas Sony did bork their PS2 bc on the PS3 very early on. I'd happily play my PS2 games on the PS3 if I could, but alas...

I recently played through Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem, LoZ: Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine. I also regularly play Super Smash Bros. with friends when they come over. My cube definitely gets a lot more play than my PS2. Were I to vote, the Cube would definitely get my vote.



SmuffTheMagicDragon said:


> both my copies of Shenmue are _*GENUINE ORIGINALS*_. No2 cost me a pretty penny from eBay, I can tell you!


Yeesh. Well I have a geuine copy of Shenmue for DC and my brother bought #2 for Xbox when it was $3 in a grocery store bin. I was not aware there were legit copies of it for DC.


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## xist (Mar 14, 2012)

thaddius said:


> I'd happily play my PS2 games on the PS3 if I could, but alas...



On an LCD? The only TV i have is one of those ancient 14" Portable LCD's (woe is me) which is great for my PS2 gaming but i can't imagine that anyone who is actually up to date with gaming, and uses an HD set with their PS3, is going to be happy playing most PS2 games as they'd look awful. Yes removing BC was a blow, but realistically i think it would take a level of dedication to get over the degradation in image quality.


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## thaddius (Mar 14, 2012)

xist said:


> thaddius said:
> 
> 
> > I'd happily play my PS2 games on the PS3 if I could, but alas...
> ...


My brother-in-law has a BC PS3 and he uses it with his LCD TV. I've never heard him complain about it. I use component cables on my PS2 and most games look like shite but I play them. Same with my Xbox (making my way through Morrowind GOTY at the moment). Granted, you're conversing with someone who regularly plays NES, SNES and Genesis games on his LCD TV.


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## xist (Mar 14, 2012)

thaddius said:


> Granted, you're conversing with someone who regularly plays NES, SNES and Genesis games on his LCD TV.



I think that qualifies as dedicated...

As for the vote, i'd actually put the Gamecube in last place (although it's the only one of the four i don't own, i did follow it during it's lifespan). The Xbox once unlocked was a great experience, and although it's library was lacking in comparison to the PS2's (i'm not a fan of KoTOR, but Ninja Gaiden Black is one of my favourite games of all time), the emulation experience it provided was unparalleled for that period. Chuck in XBMC as you mention and it was more than simply a games console and far closer to what Sony wanted to achieve with the PS3.

I love my Dreamcast too, but going back to it's pad is difficult for me these days after so much time spent with the PS2's Dualshock and the D-Pad's on the PSP, and it's library is even more limited than the Xbox's. (and i really do own real life copies of Shenmue 1 and 2! Although the first is a bit tatty) I even remember fighting with the internet connection to get the two special weapons in Skies of Arcadia and hours spent on Toy Commander. The DC was ahead of it's time no doubt, but even without the Behemoth of the PS2 it would have struggled thanks to what seemed like a lack of interest by games companies.

The PS2 is, and i expect always will be, my favourite gaming platform simply due to the wealth of treasures it contains in it's catalogue.


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## Scott-105 (Mar 14, 2012)

I loved all 3 systems. I'm gonna have to vote for Gamecube though, so many memories playing Melee with friends, ha ha  The PS2 is gonna win undoubtedly though. It was a great system as well.


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## Qtis (Mar 14, 2012)

PS2 because of the game library available. At that time, playing PS1 and PS2 games on the same console. Previous and this gen. COOOOOL! Only problem with the PS2 is the load times that hurt quite a few games here and there (yes I'm looking at you FFXII). Graphics aren't that bad, even on a 32" FullHD. If you play very close to the TV, then possibly yes. Considering for example my average 5 meter distance from the TV (I blame my living room architecture), the graphics work nicely.


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## thaddius (Mar 15, 2012)

I do like how people keep saying that they liked the PS2 because of the large® game library. Most of the third party games released for the PS2 were released simultaneously for the GC and Xbox (when they were out). And once the GC and Xbox died out, all the PS2 really got was ports of Wii games (mostly focussing on Guitar Hero) as well as a crap tonne of SingStar games.

The PS2 does have a huge library, yes, and there are a large amount of exclusives for it, yes, (both because it was around for a year before and some time after it's contemporaries) but the Xbox and Cube seem a lot more compelling to me. [/opinion]

Also, 4 DAYS REMAIN! Vote now!


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## emigre (Mar 15, 2012)

Randomly today I bought a NGC controller for my Wii. Freaky innit.


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## Gahars (Mar 15, 2012)

thaddius said:


> I do like how people keep saying that they liked the PS2 because of the large® game library. Most of the third party games released for the PS2 were released simultaneously for the GC and Xbox (when they were out). And once the GC and Xbox died out, all the PS2 really got was ports of Wii games (mostly focussing on Guitar Hero) as well as a crap tonne of SingStar games.
> 
> The PS2 does have a huge library, yes, and there are a large amount of exclusives for it, yes, (both because it was around for a year before and some time after it's contemporaries) but the Xbox and Cube seem a lot more compelling to me. [/opinion]
> 
> Also, 4 DAYS REMAIN! Vote now!



Here's a list of all the PS2 only games, many of which were from third parties. (Not to mention all the upgraded PS2 ports, like Viewtiful Joe, Resident Evil 4, etc.)

While (obviously) not every one of those games is a winner, that's still a pretty extensive list. When it came to games released for all three systems, the PS2 still had the advantage; you would be able to play those games and have access to the longest list of exclusives (assuming you have only one console, of course).


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 16, 2012)

thaddius said:


> I do like how people keep saying that they liked the PS2 because of the large® game library. Most of the third party games released for the PS2 were released simultaneously for the GC and Xbox (when they were out). And once the GC and Xbox died out, all the PS2 really got was ports of Wii games (mostly focussing on Guitar Hero) as well as a crap tonne of SingStar games.



Because the PS2 didn't have any exclusives? Practically every other modern system pales in comparison when it comes to good exclusives compared to the PS2. People like the PS2 because it not only had the multiplats, but it had the exclusives, and lots of them.


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## thaddius (Mar 16, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> thaddius said:
> 
> 
> > I do like how people keep saying that they liked the PS2 because of the large® game library. Most of the third party games released for the PS2 were released simultaneously for the GC and Xbox (when they were out). And once the GC and Xbox died out, all the PS2 really got was ports of Wii games (mostly focussing on Guitar Hero) as well as a crap tonne of SingStar games.
> ...


I guess you missed the rest of my post:


			
				thaddius said:
			
		

> The PS2 does have a huge library, yes, *and there are a large amount of exclusives for it, yes,* (both because it was around for a year before and some time after it's contemporaries) but the Xbox and Cube seem a lot more compelling to me. [/opinion]


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

thaddius said:
			
		

> The PS2 does have a huge library, yes, *and there are a large amount of exclusives for it, yes,* (both because it was around for a year before and some time after it's contemporaries) but the Xbox and Cube seem a lot more compelling to me. [/opinion]


No wonder he disregarded this part - it's sort of silly. From what I gathered, you believe that the PS2 has alot of exclusives and that it has the same multiplats the cube and the box have, and we already established that it has a gajizzilion more games available for it other then the two forementioned types. The only possible reasons to like either the box or the cube more is "because Mario" or "because Halo" which are both subjective arguments, really. But yeah, it was an [opinion].

That said, I find it mind-boggling that people choose the cube over the xbox when in fact the cube failed miserably and the box lived on to spawn a successor to its name and was one of the most successful "online" consoles to date.


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## xist (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> That said, I find it mind-boggling that people choose the cube over the xbox when in fact the cube failed miserably and the box lived on to spawn a successor to its name and was one of the most successful "online" consoles to date.



Plus the 'box was a doddle to softmod (compared to the methods for PS2 modding at that time) and once it was modded it was the bees knees. The PS2 had the games, but modding the Xbox opened up a world of possibility. The PS2 is a passion, the Xbox a guilty pleasure!


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

xist said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > That said, I find it mind-boggling that people choose the cube over the xbox when in fact the cube failed miserably and the box lived on to spawn a successor to its name and was one of the most successful "online" consoles to date.
> ...


Where I live you have stores that'll install modchips for you plus conventions are held twice each week so I never had a problem with modding when I couldn't do something myself...


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## thaddius (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> That said, I find it mind-boggling that people choose the cube over the xbox when in fact the cube failed miserably and the box lived on to spawn a successor to its name and was one of the most successful "online" consoles to date.


2 million units less than the Xbox constitutes a failure? I was always under the impression that a failure was selling a lot less than 22 million, but you're apparently the expert on systems you hated being a failure so I'll concede to you on that.


			
				Foxi4 said:
			
		

> The only possible reasons to like either the box or the cube more is "because Mario" or "because Halo" which are both subjective arguments, really.



Not necessarily. I really liked the Resident Evil games for the Cube, that's what stood out for me, personally. (It would have been great if Capcom had stuck to it's promise of GC exclusives, but what's done is done) And there were plenty of non-Nintendo exclusives for the system that had my attention. Just as there were for the Xbox and PS2.

To be quite honest though, I own all four of these systems and like them all. The PS2 had an inordinate amount of JRPGs, which I'm not a huge fan of, so my PS2 game collection is decidedly smaller than my Gamecube, Xbox and Dreamcast collections. After the GC and Xbox were done, if I wanted to buy any Guitar Hero/SingStar/Wii port/PSP port, I'd rather get them for the current gen (as I have a launch PSP, 360 and Wii, as well as a non-BC PS3).

I just can't imagine too many people paid attention to the PS2s post-PS3-launch library. If you did, you probably either had a BC PS3 or didn't own a PS3 at all.


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 16, 2012)

It's funny to see you guys touting your opinions like they're facts. There is no _right _answer.

*The Gamecube had:*
Metroid Prime games and F-Zero GX
Wind Waker and Twilight Princess
Smash Bros Melee, Mario Sunshine, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and Luigi's Mansion
REmake, Baten Kaitos and Twin Snakes.
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Pikmin 1/2
Eternal Darkness and Geist

*The PS2 had*
MGS2 (also on Xbox) and Snake Eater as well as God of War 1/2
Final Fantasy 12 and Tales of the Abyss
Silent Hill 2, Tekken 5, Soul Calibur V and Gran Turismo 4
GTA 3, Katamari Damacy and Zone of the Enders
Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry

*The XBOX had:*
Forza Motorsport, Halo 1/2, Half Life 2
Project Gotham Racing 1/2 and Jet Set Radio Future
and...err not much other exclusives (I'm probably forgeting a couple).

It all depends on what games you prefer. The PS2 may have had the _most_ games but that doesn't necessarily make it the best. The Gamecube may not have had the largest game library but it did have a number of great games and arguably the best controller. The Xbox had Halo, Forza and Xbox Live.


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## xist (Mar 16, 2012)

Your PS2 list seems woefully under-represented. If you're comparing the number of exclusive titles then the PS2 list could go on and on and on in comparison to the other two - you've just highlighted a small selection, but in doing so it misrepresents the differences.


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## thaddius (Mar 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> It's funny to see you guys touting your opinions like they're facts. There is no _right _answer.


Shh! Do you want people to stop posting in my polls?


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## NeoSupaMario (Mar 16, 2012)

xist said:


> Just wondering how many people today use a GC as their main console compared to a PS2. I'd almost bet on the fact that there are far more PS2's being actively used as a primary machine than GC's.


Fact: the GC is NeoSupaMario's primary machine.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

thaddius said:


> 2 million units less than the Xbox constitutes a failure? I was always under the impression that a failure was selling a lot less than 22 million, but you're apparently the expert on systems you hated being a failure so I'll concede to you on that.


Here it's not a matter of sales but support - Nintendo dropped out of the race on their own accord while the XBox continued to recieve games. Not only that - XBox Live is a big factor too. All in all, XBox > Gamecube.

When I say "failure" I mean "failure all-around" - small library of titles, wrongly designed, basically no multimedia functionality, Online features limited to only a few titles and so on and so forth - the Gamecube turns out pale in comparison to the box.



> Not necessarily. I really liked the Resident Evil games for the Cube, that's what stood out for me, personally. (It would have been great if Capcom had stuck to it's promise of GC exclusives, but what's done is done) And there were plenty of non-Nintendo exclusives for the system that had my attention. Just as there were for the Xbox and PS2.


"Because Mario" and "Because Halo" are two of my arbitrary arguments in any kind of a discussion about hardware - I wasn't refering to particular titles, what I was saying was that you can't look on a given console through a pair of pink glasses, you musn't think of any particular title but about the whole library and the ratio between good and bad games in it.



> To be quite honest though, I own all four of these systems and like them all. The PS2 had an inordinate amount of JRPGs, which I'm not a huge fan of, so my PS2 game collection is decidedly smaller than my Gamecube, Xbox and Dreamcast collections. After the GC and Xbox were done, if I wanted to buy any Guitar Hero/SingStar/Wii port/PSP port, I'd rather get them for the current gen (as I have a launch PSP, 360 and Wii, as well as a non-BC PS3).


Missing the XBox, still. Planning to buy one next week, already got the gil for it. 



> I just can't imagine too many people paid attention to the PS2s post-PS3-launch library. If you did, you probably either had a BC PS3 or didn't own a PS3 at all.


Not a matter of attention - a matter of support.


xist said:


> Your PS2 list seems woefully under-represented. If you're comparing the number of exclusive titles then the PS2 list could go on and on and on in comparison to the other two - you've just highlighted a small selection, but in doing so it misrepresents the differences.


Precisely. It's not a matter of which console has the "best" exclusive/good games - it's a matter of sheer numbers. All three consoles offered a relatively similar gaming experience and the PS2 simply had the biggest library, best support and longest livespan.


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## Valwin (Mar 16, 2012)

Well my vote goes for the GameCube it have lots of great games it was my main console   and I have ton of fun with it .

But I also have a ps2  witch I really enjoy a lot it have lots of great games and I like that the PS2 showed that you dint need great graphics to be good system  seem how it was the weakest of the main 3 in graphics and power it did have what was important great software.


Nintendo was the most profitable company in the industry  during the GC generation witch was hard to do with such a strong rival like the ps2


i wish i could vote for the 2 ;.;


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## Brian117 (Mar 16, 2012)

Microsoft Xbox all the way.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Nintendo was the most profitable company in the industry  during the GC generation witch was hard to do with such a strong rival like the ps2


According to the data from Valwin's magic hat! Always reliable! 

_To elaborate:_ no thanks to the Gamecube. It was the GBA that was selling.


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## Valwin (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo was the most profitable company in the industry  during the GC generation witch was hard to do with such a strong rival like the ps2
> ...



no just the data from financial statements you should go look for them sometimes


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## emigre (Mar 16, 2012)

Lads, I'm looking to buy a NGC memory card. Can someone recommend a what size I should get. I'm thinking 8mb should be enough.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > According to the data from Valwin's magic hat! Always reliable!
> ...


I think I might've been vague or unclear, let me fix that for you.

_



			To elaborate:
		
Click to expand...

_


> no thanks to the Gamecube. It was the GBA that was selling


Also, Microsoft was more profitable at the time, in fact, I'm pretty sure it'd be more profitable even if it didn't release the XBox at all.



emigre said:


> Lads, I'm looking to buy a NGC memory card. Can someone recommend a what size I should get. I'm thinking 8mb should be enough.


Size of "SD Gecko".


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## xist (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo was the most profitable company in the industry  during the GC generation witch was hard to do with such a strong rival like the ps2
> ...



Wall of text alert...


> *	Nintendo's Profit Falls 38% on GameCube Sales (Update3)*
> 
> 
> Kyoto, Japan, April 7 (Bloomberg) -- Nintendo Co. said full- year profit fell by about 38 percent and sales of its GameCube console lagged forecasts by about half, handing Microsoft Corp. the title of the world's No. 2 maker of video-game machines.
> ...


http://www.bloomberg...ING0&refer=asia


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

xist said:


> > *Nintendo's Profit Falls 38% on Ga...*


LIES AND SLANDER!NOT TRUEZ! NINTENDO OWNZ ALL!


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## Valwin (Mar 16, 2012)

xist said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Valwin said:
> ...



they dint make what the wanted but still it was the most profitable company


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

> *Nintendo's Profit Falls 38% on GameCube Sales (Update3)*
> Kyoto, Japan, April 7 (Bloomberg) -- Nintendo Co. said full- year profit *fell by about 38 percent* and sales of its GameCube console lagged forecasts by about half, handing Microsoft Corp. the title of the world's No. 2 maker of video-game machines.
> Kyoto-based Nintendo*, until this year second only to Sony Corp. in console sales*, said it sold about 5.6 million GameCubes in the fiscal year ended March 31, 44 percent short of its 10 million unit goal. Microsoft expects to sell 9 million of its Xbox game machines in the fiscal year ending June 30.





Valwin said:


> they dint make what the wanted but still it was the most profitable company


Second only to Sony, then sales fall by 38 percent. That means they not only were second, they were losing in the race. Reading isn't hard.


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## Valwin (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> > *Nintendo's Profit Falls 38% on GameCube Sales (Update3)*
> > Kyoto, Japan, April 7 (Bloomberg) -- Nintendo Co. said full- year profit *fell by about 38 percent* and sales of its GameCube console lagged forecasts by about half, handing Microsoft Corp. the title of the world's No. 2 maker of video-game machines.
> > Kyoto-based Nintendo*, until this year second only to Sony Corp. in console sales*, said it sold about 5.6 million GameCubes in the fiscal year ended March 31, 44 percent short of its 10 million unit goal. Microsoft expects to sell 9 million of its Xbox game machines in the fiscal year ending June 30.
> 
> ...




My point still stands


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

Valwin said:


> My point still stands


On what planet do you live lol? Please, post some sources to refute xist's post.

The fact that you "said something" doesn't mean that you have a point.


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> xist said:
> 
> 
> > Your PS2 list seems woefully under-represented. If you're comparing the number of exclusive titles then the PS2 list could go on and on and on in comparison to the other two - you've just highlighted a small selection, but in doing so it misrepresents the differences.
> ...


Now how does the sales of a console or game library size dictate one's enjoyment of it? All these numbers and data don't mean a single thing when gauging one's favourite console.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > xist said:
> ...


Because if the console "sold" then clearly people "bought it" - it was popular. If it had games released for it then there was a market for them. Ergo, a console with large sales and a large library of "good" (aka: non-shovelware) titles was the most appealing for people in a given period.


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Now how does the sales of a console or game library size dictate one's enjoyment of it? All these numbers and data don't mean a single thing when gauging one's favourite console.
> ...


And that means what exactly? Just because a console was popular in a given time period doesn't mean one has to like it. That's subjective to a person's tastes. The DS sold significantly more than the PSP but does that mean everyone that doesn't like the system is _wrong_? You're all trying to get your opinions across as facts.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...


The DS is the more successful console, it has twice as big of a library and twice as many people bought it, if not more. It's only inferior from a hardware stand-point, it's not an opinion, it's a fact. If I were to give you my *opinion* then I would chose the XBox due to the fact that it had the best internet connectivity features, the best multimedia support and a library of good titles, albeit smaller then the PS2, however I had to be objective and I picked the console which was beloved for more users, simple as that.


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The DS is the more successful console, it has twice as big of a library and twice as many people bought it, if not more. It's only inferior from a hardware stand-point, it's not an opinion, it's a fact. If I were to give you my *opinion* then I would chose the XBox due to the fact that it had the best internet connectivity features, the best multimedia support and a library of good titles, albeit smaller then the PS2, however I had to be objective and I picked the console which was beloved for more users, simple as that.


This isn't a thread about which console is the most successful but rather about which console is your favourite. No amount of sales data can tell you a person's preferred console.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

soulx said:


> This isn't a thread about which console is the most successful but rather about which console is your favourite. No amount of sales data can tell you a person's preferred console.


>Popularity of a system
>Doesn't count in a console popularity contest

Mind blown yet?  

_*leaves thread*_


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## thaddius (Mar 16, 2012)

Foxi4's "PS1 shoulda won!" butthurt is getting out of hand.


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## Gahars (Mar 16, 2012)

Because calling someone's reality based arguments (whether or not you agree with the conclusion) as a sign of being "butthurt" is a mature, reasoned response.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2012)

thaddius said:


> Foxi4's "PS1 shoulda won!" butthurt is getting out of hand.


I'm not "butthurt", I'm just discussing things with people, I thought that was the point of this thread?

@[member='Gahars']
Why thank you! Your support is most welcome.


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## thaddius (Mar 17, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Because calling someone's reality based arguments (whether or not you agree with the conclusion) as a sign of being "butthurt" is a mature, reasoned response.


I forgot that the internet is serious business where people can't make jokes. Thanks for reminding me of that.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2012)

thaddius said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Because calling someone's reality based arguments (whether or not you agree with the conclusion) as a sign of being "butthurt" is a mature, reasoned response.
> ...


I think "butthurt" is sort of hard to interpret as a joke, if that was your intention then sorry for misinterpreting you.


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## thaddius (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm not usually one for ad hominem. We're best buds, remember?


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## Gahars (Mar 17, 2012)

thaddius said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Because calling someone's reality based arguments (whether or not you agree with the conclusion) as a sign of being "butthurt" is a mature, reasoned response.
> ...



Of course not. But when you're debating with someone, resorting to that doesn't come across well; if anything, it only weakens the point you're trying to make.


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## thaddius (Mar 17, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Of course not. But when you're debating with someone, resorting to that doesn't come across well; if anything, it only weakens the point you're trying to make.


The fact that you didn't say anything about Foxi4's posts makes your stance a lot less chivalrous. A double standard weakens the point you're trying to make.

People here are just stating their opinions. Foxi4 wants to jump down the throats of anyone who doesn't give the PS2 the praise he feels it deserves. That's not a debate, that's a circular argument. If he wants to do that, I have no problem with it. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with me (or even Foxi4, for that matter) throwing an innocent joke in there somewhere. Foxi4 isn't crying or losing sleep over my comment, so you shouldn't either.


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## Gahars (Mar 17, 2012)

So I offer criticism on your argumentative style (and how what you claim was meant as a joke did not come across well), and I'm somehow trying to be "chivalrous" and/or  overreacting. Oh, of course.


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## xist (Mar 17, 2012)

thaddius said:


> People here are just stating their opinions. Foxi4 wants to jump down the throats of anyone who doesn't give the PS2 the praise he feels it deserves.



A small part of me wants the GameCube to suddenly receive a huge amount of votes, putting it into first place and thereby winning the round. Why? Just because i'd love to hear the sound of Foxi's jaw hitting his desk....i'm pretty sure it'd be quite loud and accompanied by an exasperated sigh and an exaggerated eye roll.


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## thaddius (Mar 18, 2012)

I think some people are just taking a poll on luxury electronics a little too seriously.

Speaking of which: 2½ days remain!


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 18, 2012)

xist said:


> A small part of me wants the GameCube to suddenly receive a huge amount of votes, putting it into first place and thereby winning the round. Why? Just because i'd love to hear the sound of Foxi's jaw hitting his desk....i'm pretty sure it'd be quite loud and accompanied by an exasperated sigh and an exaggerated eye roll.



I don't this his (or my) jaw would be hitting the desk, we'd just finally confirm what we've been thinking for a long time: every here has a bad taste in video games and they should feel bad for having it.

I mean you have to be either a SERIOUSLY JADED Nintendo fanboy or a SERIOUSLY JADED Sony hater to think the PS2 takes anything but top place. It's perhaps the greatest game console ever.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2012)

thaddius said:


> People here are just stating their opinions. Foxi4 wants to jump down the throats of anyone who doesn't give the PS2 the praise he feels it deserves. (...) I think some people are just taking a poll on luxury electronics a little too seriously.


Wow, wow, wow - slow down right there. I am not jumping down at anyone's throat - I am describing my personal view on the situation and I'm stating why a given console is more deserving then another. I'm reminding you that this is a poll about which console is the best in each generation, and finally the best one overall. We're not voting for "Mario", "Halo" and "Tekken", we're choosing between hardware. As such, we should focus on what that hardware could do and how well it was supported by developers via game releases. At the end of the day, I don't give two flips about who chooses what - I've got my own reasons as to why one console could be better then another.



			
				xist said:
			
		

> A small part of me wants the GameCube to suddenly receive a huge amount of votes, putting it into first place and thereby winning the round. Why? Just because i'd love to hear the sound of Foxi's jaw hitting his desk....i'm pretty sure it'd be quite loud and accompanied by an exasperated sigh and an exaggerated eye roll.


All that would leave my noise hole would be a long sigh of utter diappointment.


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## thaddius (Mar 18, 2012)

thaddius said:


> I think some people are just taking a poll on luxury electronics a little too seriously.


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## prowler (Mar 18, 2012)

thaddius said:


> thaddius said:
> 
> 
> > I think some people are just taking a poll on luxury electronics a little too seriously.


ironic, since you made this thread.


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## emigre (Mar 18, 2012)

About time these threads became a verbal slapping match.


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## xist (Mar 18, 2012)

How about next time we do one of these we fight it out to the death rather than just cast anonymous votes?


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## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2012)

We need a Thunderdome...


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## emigre (Mar 18, 2012)

Let's just have a big orgy to release the tension!


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## Nah3DS (Mar 18, 2012)

enters thread
see kids fighting
hears emigre's sexual proposals
exits thread


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## Smuff (Mar 18, 2012)

An oldie, but a goodie.

[yt]XxLLhwCx4cM[/yt]

What a disappointment!


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## thaddius (Mar 18, 2012)

Vote while you can, folks! Poll ends Tuesday!

EDIT: Wow. Didn't think the DC would do so well in the poll.


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## YayMii (Mar 19, 2012)

Voted for the original Xbox. I grew up with it, loved its games (JSRF, Halo, Munch's Oddysee, KOTOR, Unreal Championship, and Morrowind, just to name a few). Not to mention I haven't even played a PS2 before.

The Xbox needs moar love.


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## thaddius (Mar 19, 2012)

YayMii said:


> The Xbox needs moar love.


Indeed. It is pretty impressive that a system can come out of nowhere like the Xbox did and do so well. Reminiscent of the PS1, really.


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## thaddius (Mar 20, 2012)

What a week! I don't think we broke any records, but may have broken a few hearts. 




As you can see, the PS2 slammed into first place, and for the first time since the NES, displaced Nintendo from the polls.

So how do that brackets stand?

Here's how:




Remember, folks, that once we're done the first set of brackets, we're moving on to find out which one in the best console, then handheld. After that, it's which one is better out of the two!

In the meantime, join me soon in another thread as we explore the next round in thaddius' Console Classic!


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## YayMii (Mar 20, 2012)

Nuuuuuuuuuu~
Well, it can only get more fanboyish from now on.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> We need a Thunderdome...



Don't be so foolish, by now we've already gone Beyond Thunderdome.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > We need a Thunderdome...
> ...


Props for "getting" the reference.


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