# [UNCONFIRMED/DISPUTED]PayPal won't refund $50,000 to Twitch troll



## Veho (Jun 9, 2016)

EDIT: Upon further digging, it turns out most of the $50,000 were legitimate donations that were never disputed or cancelled; the guy did cancel a few donations and some of those claims were refused by PayPal, but most of his donations were undisputed and he really is in the habit of giving people money. Turns out all the sources I listed were just a circle jerk quoting each other and not doing any research, me included. So it looks like the real asshole in this case was me all along. [IRONY!]

Anyway, thread closed while the parties involved are done with the he-said-she-said and the truth comes out. 

 Donation trolling is the time-honored bait and switch prank usually performed by assholes. It's simple: dangle the shiny bait in front of someone, watch them dance for it, and then yank it away at the last moment, while yanking your dong with the other hand for maximum pleasure. Fun when you do it to cats, dick move when you do it to human beings. 

 The dick in question this time was a Twitch viewer usernamed iNexus_Ninja, the shiny toy was a total of _50,000 dollars_ in donations to various Twitch streamers (largest individual donation being $11,000), and the toy would be yanked away by means of PayPal's buyer protection and cancellation at the last minute. 

 So iNexus_Ninja donated the money, recorded the live reactions of the respective streamers to laugh at later on, and then attempted to cancel the payments... which PayPal promptly refused, citing that buyer's protection covers only payments made in good faith, and that donating with the intent of cancelling later on is not covered. Apparently there was enough evidence that the kid (The kid, yes. iNexus_Ninja is 18-year-old Anthony Archer from Australia.) had no intention of paying for PayPal to tell him to fuck off, deny the refund claim and charge him the full amount. 

 Now, PayPal isn't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, or a particular moral high ground, because they can be scum at times, and by "at times" I mean "by default"; they are doing this because their transaction fee is larger than a cancellation fee. Still, it's something. 

 Little Anthony has since tweeted that he used his parents' credit card for the transaction, so there's no telling how and where this will end. If he had permission to use the card for his expenses, PayPal's claim can't be disputed. If he used it _without_ permission, the bank can and should sue him for credit card fraud. And that's just the start; I will delve no deeper because legalese gets fractal real fast and it's too easy to get caught in the strings and the loopholes. It remains to be seen whether the Twitch streamers will get the donations in the end (most likely not, or at least not to the full amount), but one way or another it's unlikely the little ass tick will get away scot-free. Meanwhile I'm gonna sit back, watch how this unfolds, and yank   


Sources: 
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/06/paypal-denies-50k-twitch-troll/
http://gamerant.com/twitch-troll-denied-refund-116/
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/06/09/paypal-wont-refund-twitch-trolls-50000-in-donations/
http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/twitch-troll-donates-50000-to-streamers-paypal-refuses-refund


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## RemixDeluxe (Jun 9, 2016)

I understood everything from the article except the first part. Could you explain in detail or possibly give an example of this heinous act of donation trolling. I'm imagining in my mind what it possibly is but it's probably not what I think.


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## DinohScene (Jun 9, 2016)

Hah, HAH! HAHAHHAHAHAHA!

Serves him right.


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## xXDungeon_CrawlerXx (Jun 9, 2016)

This kid is a fucktard, hahahaha


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## GamerzHell9137 (Jun 9, 2016)

What a sad sod


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## mashers (Jun 9, 2016)

Serves him right. I hope his parents make him pay back every last cent.


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## Greymane (Jun 9, 2016)

Thats gonne take long time, and i dont think i have enough popcorn for that. Time to go to the store for more it seems.


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## xXDungeon_CrawlerXx (Jun 9, 2016)

Greymane said:


> Thats gonne take long time, and i dont think i have enough popcorn for that. Time to go to the store for more it seems.


Don't buy it with the credit card of your parents, please.


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## Greymane (Jun 9, 2016)

xXDungeon_CrawlerXx said:


> Don't buy it with the credit card of your parents, please.


Dont worry i have my own money to buy stuff with.


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## mashers (Jun 9, 2016)

xXDungeon_CrawlerXx said:


> Don't buy it with the credit card of your parents, please.


Don't worry, he can do that and then just request a charge back


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## FAST6191 (Jun 9, 2016)

"If he used it without permission, the bank can and should sue him for credit card fraud."
I do not know what it is like in Aus but when it happens in the US they tend to first try to get the parents to sue their kid, if not then they tend to want to call the transaction legit (far more likely to end with the bank getting their cut rather than having to pay lawyers rates for going into court).

Anyway I have seen things like this used to far better effect in bigger boy finance (some of the best in dodging immigration requirements and other times fabricating liquidity). Anyway good to see paypal's cuntiness has some benefits to the world occasionally, even if it means I now have to watch for them borrowing more concepts from insurance world (in this case we fight for our best advantage).


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## dimmidice (Jun 9, 2016)

RemixDeluxe said:


> I understood everything from the article except the first part. Could you explain in detail or possibly give an example of this heinous act of donation trolling. I'm imagining in my mind what it possibly is but it's probably not what I think.


he donates money, then asks for his money back from paypal. that's all there is to it. this guy was waiting til the last possible minute to do the chargebacks too. no idea how this is even be possible tbh.


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## Deleted User (Jun 9, 2016)

Feel sorry for the parents. 
Moral: Don't let anyone know your credit card details.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 9, 2016)

This kid's an asshole so I get the sour sentiments here, but also $50,000 is too big a punishment. That shit could haunt him for the rest of his life.

However since I am at the comfort of my desk an entire continent away and 100% detached from the story I can't help but laugh.


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## mashers (Jun 9, 2016)

Lucifer666 said:


> This kid's an asshole so I get the sour sentiments here, but also $50,000 is too big a punishment. That shit could haunt him for the rest of his life.


He should have thought about that before he decided to behave so appallingly. This isn't an 8-year-old child who didn't understand the ramifications of what he was doing. He was an adult - an 18-year-old man. He should take full responsibility for his actions, and I have absolutely no sympathy for the enormous debt he has incurred for himself.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 9, 2016)

mashers said:


> He should have thought about that before he decided to behave so appallingly. This isn't an 8-year-old child who didn't understand the ramifications of what he was doing. He was an adult - an 18-year-old man. He should take full responsibility for his actions, and I have absolutely no sympathy for the enormous debt he has incurred for himself.


I'm not defending him in any way, what I meant to say is that while what he did is deplorable, a debt of $50,000 is worse. His victims would have been, at best, deeply disappointed if he got his way, but otherwise unharmed. I wouldn't care if it was $3,000 or so, in that case I'd say he shouldn't be able to take it back, but $50,000 is more than an Ivy League tuition fee.


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## dimmidice (Jun 9, 2016)

Lucifer666 said:


> I'm not defending him in any way, what I meant to say is that while what he did is deplorable, a debt of $50,000 is worse. His victims would have been, at best, deeply disappointed if he got his way, but otherwise unharmed. I wouldn't care if it was $3,000 or so, in that case I'd say he shouldn't be able to take it back, but $50,000 is more than an Ivy League tuition fee.


simple fact of the matter is he donated 50.000 dollars out of his own free will. paypal has every right to not allow a chargeback. especially given the circumstances.
does it suck for him? totally. but people make stupid decisions all the time. you gotta deal with them.


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## migles (Jun 9, 2016)

xXDungeon_CrawlerXx said:


> Don't buy it with the credit card of your parents, please.


i am totally not going to use my parents credit card cuz i seen a random guy posting a comment in a forum telling me to not do it...



Lucifer666 said:


> I'm not defending him in any way, what I meant to say is that while what he did is deplorable, a debt of $50,000 is worse. His victims would have been, at best, deeply disappointed if he got his way, but otherwise unharmed. I wouldn't care if it was $3,000 or so, in that case I'd say he shouldn't be able to take it back, but $50,000 is more than an Ivy League tuition fee.


but this will give him an unvaluable lesson for life... or not, depends how is parents educated him.. maybe they will get mad and in a week later his mom is still doing his breakfast like nothing happened.. or maybe they have a big house with a big pool, dad will not blink a single eye and the next day the dude is giving a party to his stonned friends (i watched too many movies)

In my opinion it's the parents fault, the dude is an adult and shall be responsible for it. but this is a case of bad parenting...
even if he would get the money back with no problem. what does he think? that the parents would not notice the weird credit card bill with huge values getting subtracted and added again? if i looked at my credit card bill and noticed something weird i would call the next second to the bank to know what the fuck is happening..
i mean, there had been several transactions of 50k total moving around back and fourth.. i would hunt for what the fuck happened even if all money was there...

anyway... "trusting" is not an excuse to leave your stuff without protection...
any parent person that leave the credit card or other sensitive stuff to "trusting" is just asking for it...
sure, everyday i trust companies my information, (for example microsoft and google) but that's another talk..


> "daddy there is this steam game very cheap, can i buy it with your credit card?" here you have it son, go ahead
> *kid puts credit card on fake steam website\fake promo site*


there had been times that i refused to help someone because they trust me..
i had a friend with poor vision ask me to withdraw money from an atm in a very sunny day, cuz he couldn't see anything.. he said that he trust me and etc, there is no problem..
but i simply refused to, why? shit always happens and he will remember that time he asked me to withdraw money, and i will be a suspect...


> "hey dude, you understand lots of stuff about consoles, it's all dirty inside and making loads of noise, can you open it up and clean it for me?
> *opens up, cleans console, everything is good, console is working fine*
> >several months later
> "hey dude, my console broke, it's all your fault, since that day you cleaned it's super quiet and now it broke, you have to get me a new one"


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## RemixDeluxe (Jun 9, 2016)

dimmidice said:


> he donates money, then asks for his money back from paypal. that's all there is to it. this guy was waiting til the last possible minute to do the chargebacks too. no idea how this is even be possible tbh.


I already understand that much, I just don't get the trolling part. I've seen some Twitch streams for some games that just released, whenever you donate you get to say something towards the host live for everyone to read so maybe he spammed the host with hate messages then asked for a refund afterwards. Am I right?


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## mgrev (Jun 9, 2016)

Donations are supposed to be actual donations, not just numbers on a screen which is taken back shortly after


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## Depravo (Jun 9, 2016)

RemixDeluxe said:


> I already understand that much, I just don't get the trolling part. I've seen some Twitch streams for some games that just released, whenever you donate you get to say something towards the host live for everyone to read so maybe he spammed the host with hate messages then asked for a refund afterwards. Am I right?


Maybe he did it just for the excited look on their faces?


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## RemixDeluxe (Jun 9, 2016)

Depravo said:


> Maybe he did it just for the excited look on their faces?


You can donate as little as $1 (sometimes it's $5) for an automatic message to be posted live. If it's a popular streamer I could imagine a few grand being spent just so it pisses off the other viewers and takes the attention away from the host to ban the spammer.

Same way the temp has been dealing with spamming trolls recently.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 9, 2016)

RemixDeluxe said:


> I already understand that much, I just don't get the trolling part. I've seen some Twitch streams for some games that just released, whenever you donate you get to say something towards the host live for everyone to read so maybe he spammed the host with hate messages then asked for a refund afterwards. Am I right?


Not really. 

If I came to your house, and gave you $11,000, you'd be ecstatic right? You'd freak out, talk about what you'd do with the money, be generally excited yeah? You have $11,000! That's fucking awesome! Then imagine I came back a week or two later, and took that money back with a hearty "Fuck you, you actually thought I'd do that?". How would you feel then? That's where donation trolls get their thrill, where they yank their dong as Veho put it, from that immense disappointment that you'd feel, because some people are just assholes.

Spamming wouldn't work regardless, since those messages can be turned off with a single click, unlike a forum where you have to delete the posts and the users every single time.


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## Veho (Jun 9, 2016)

RemixDeluxe said:


> I already understand that much, I just don't get the trolling part. I've seen some Twitch streams for some games that just released, whenever you donate you get to say something towards the host live for everyone to read so maybe he spammed the host with hate messages then asked for a refund afterwards. Am I right?


No, it's much simpler. He donated large sums with the intent to cancel the payment later on and laugh at the naive fools who thought they were getting money. That was the plan. Like the coin on a string gag, "_here's money_" "gee, thanks!" "_yoink! Loser!_"  That's the trolling. 
The "string" here being the option of cancelling a transaction for a refund. He thought PayPal purchase protection was a risk-free money back guarantee with which to get the money back that he already pledged, but PayPal told him to go fuck himself.


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## dpad_5678 (Jun 9, 2016)

Veho said:


> while yanking your dong with the other hand for maximum pleasure


"Mods never shitpost"


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 9, 2016)

His parents credit card, huh? I'd belt that little fucks ass if he were my kid. Stupid little shit.


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## Joe88 (Jun 9, 2016)

from what I hear he can just go through the credit card company and file for credit card fraud


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## Veho (Jun 9, 2016)

Joe88 said:


> from what I hear he can just go through the credit card company and file for credit card fraud


But he's the one who committed it. What's he going to do, report himself?


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## DarkFlare69 (Jun 9, 2016)

he's a dumbass


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## Maq47 (Jun 9, 2016)

DarkFlare69 said:


> he's retarded a dumbass


I don't like that word. People misuse it all the time, and I have Autism (Asperger's Syndrome, to be exact). I had to deal with that word a ton in High School, and other people saying it brings back bad memories. Please edit your post; I know a lot of people who would feel the same way, too.


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## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2016)

I am actually ok with this happening to the little brat. Honestly, paypal should start cracking down on people who do horrible things like fake donations, it's a dick move and should come with an actual punishment. Maybe people will stop doing it.


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 9, 2016)

There is a lot of swearing in the OP.


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## petethepug (Jun 9, 2016)

Damn. Well this should be intresting, I had somehow heard this name "Nexus" before, to bad idk if it will be the same guy I previously known, but I don't really give a crap.

I doubt he did a Credit Card Fraud. If someone were that stupid to check Pay Pal, and see they have $11k USD in their account, and say "Oh I clearly have this much money." Then I highly doubt this guy would even credit card fraud but that's my opinion. But in the case he does have those types of parents, maybe.

Well it's time for Pay Pal to get their shit together once they start dealing with this Twitch User.


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## XavyrrVaati (Jun 9, 2016)

Okay, I would sorta feel bad if he was like 15 or something. But he's 18. That's old enough to smoke and die for your country (in the US). tl;dr he's and adult, so as an adult, he's responsible for his actions. I don't see how anyone would jokingly throw around that kind of money even it was guaranteed refundable. Unless they were like, Donald Trump or something.


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## DarkFlare69 (Jun 9, 2016)

MarcusCarter said:


> I don't like that word. People misuse it all the time, and I have Autism (Asperger's Syndrome, to be exact). I had to deal with that word a ton in High School, and other people saying it brings back bad memories. Please edit your post; I know a lot of people who would feel the same way, too.


the definition, according to google, is "very foolish or stupid" which is completely true in this guys situation. it has nothing to do with autism in this case.


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## XavyrrVaati (Jun 9, 2016)

Although, upon looking into it more, I can't find any reputable sources or facts that this story is true.


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## DarkFlare69 (Jun 9, 2016)

XavyrrVaati said:


> Although, upon looking into it more, I can't find any reputable sources or facts that this story is true.


https://www.google.com/search?q=iNexus_Ninja


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## XavyrrVaati (Jun 9, 2016)

DarkFlare69 said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=iNexus_Ninja


Okay... It's a google search, with a bunch of links to articles... with no sources..... Lol.
https://twitter.com/MissMomoPlays/status/740642893623234560


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## DarkFlare69 (Jun 9, 2016)

XavyrrVaati said:


> Okay... It's a google search, with a bunch of links to articles... with no sources..... Lol.
> https://twitter.com/MissMomoPlays/status/740642893623234560


i doubt anyone was recording the stream to "prove" it besides the kid himself who likely deleted it to prevent himself from looking like a fool. The only sources are the people watching the stream, and they're the ones who told people and got all of these articles written.


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## XavyrrVaati (Jun 9, 2016)

DarkFlare69 said:


> i doubt anyone was recording the stream to "prove" it besides the kid himself who likely deleted it to prevent himself from looking like a fool. The only sources are the people watching the stream, and they're the ones who told people and got all of these articles written.


People watching the stream wouldn't know if he attempted to chargeback several months later....


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## Ev1l0rd (Jun 9, 2016)

So... keeping it with the cat analogy you opened the post with, this is kinda like when the cat gets the toy, you attempt to pull it out again and fail, and then get punished by your parents for harassing your cat. Still, good drama.


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## DarkFlare69 (Jun 9, 2016)

XavyrrVaati said:


> People watching the stream wouldn't know if he attempted to chargeback several months later....


I thought he attempted it immediately..?


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## XavyrrVaati (Jun 9, 2016)

quoted from: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/06/09/paypal-wont-refund-twitch-trolls-50000-in-donations/

I linked earlier a twitter discussion between one of the streamers he allegedly attacked:
https://twitter.com/MissMomoPlays/status/740642893623234560
In it she stating that he never tried to chargeback.

And another: https://twitter.com/hadesWFX/status/740590335999541248


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## spotanjo3 (Jun 9, 2016)

Donation sucks!


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## Deleted-355425 (Jun 9, 2016)

sounds fake to me.


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## dimmidice (Jun 9, 2016)

Veho said:


> No, it's much simpler. He donated large sums with the intent to cancel the payment later on and laugh at the naive fools who thought they were getting money. That was the plan. Like the coin on a string gag, "_here's money_" "gee, thanks!" "_yoink! Loser!_"  That's the trolling.
> The "string" here being the option of cancelling a transaction for a refund. He thought PayPal purchase protection was a risk-free money back guarantee with which to get the money back that he already pledged, but PayPal told him to go fuck himself.


completely agreed. except that he didn't pledge it, he paid it. so its far worse than bailing on a pledge. (being a bit pedantic here i admit)


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## XavyrrVaati (Jun 9, 2016)

Another discussion on twitter: https://twitter.com/GarciaVictor_/status/740869593422569473
So I guess the internet as a whole just likes jumping to conclusions? Wheee~ Burn the witch!


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## RemixDeluxe (Jun 9, 2016)

azoreseuropa said:


> Donation sucks!


How do you expect non-profit organizations to function?


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## loco365 (Jun 9, 2016)

WiiU said:


> Feel sorry for the parents.
> Moral: Don't let anyone know your credit card details.


Not necessarily, if he takes photos of the front and back of the card, he literally has all the information he needs.

But yeah, I don't feel sorry for him. He did something incredibly irresponsible and now he has to live up to the decision that he made. Who I do feel sorry for is the people that he sent the money to, because they all thought they were getting money in good faith only to find that it was a prank, although it may not end out too bad for them anyway, thanks to Paypal's policies.


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## dimmidice (Jun 9, 2016)

XavyrrVaati said:


> Another discussion on twitter: https://twitter.com/GarciaVictor_/status/740869593422569473
> So I guess the internet as a whole just likes jumping to conclusions? Wheee~ Burn the witch!


i've been doing some digging as well. sounds to me like this guy did a chargeback on one streamer, sodapoppin because he found out sodapoppin was rich after he donated, bullshit reason to do a chargeback of course. and somehow news sites started making articles saying he did a lot of chargebacks. but i can't really find any evidence of those.
its amazing to me how so many articles get made based on nothing but some tweets and claims by just random people basically.


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## SonicCloud (Jun 9, 2016)

Im here just wondering how he's gonna be beaten by his parents and how long they will beat his ass


Karma bitch~


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## Ev1l0rd (Jun 9, 2016)

SonicCloud said:


> Im here just wondering how he's gonna be beaten by his parents and how long they will beat his ass
> 
> 
> Karma bitch~


Probably not at all. Parents can be very forgiving. Also, he's 18, so he's legally an adult, so the parents will likely go to court. (note that I said legally, not mentally.)


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## SonicCloud (Jun 9, 2016)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Probably not at all. Parents can be very forgiving. Also, he's 18, so he's legally an adult, so the parents will likely go to court. (note that I said legally, not mentally.)


Good point
Still, i don't think someone could forgive a 50,000 charge in his credit card


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## RemixDeluxe (Jun 9, 2016)

If he truly comes from a wealthy family who buys their way out of problems then it doesnt sound like it will be such a happy ending for the victims.

The best course of action would be for him to work off the debt that he foolishly wasted so he understands the value of money including court fees lawyers, etc.


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## migles (Jun 9, 2016)

Veho said:


> No, it's much simpler. He donated large sums with the intent to cancel the payment later on and laugh at the naive fools who thought they were getting money. That was the plan. Like the coin on a string gag, "_here's money_" "gee, thanks!" "_yoink! Loser!_"  That's the trolling.
> The "string" here being the option of cancelling a transaction for a refund. He thought PayPal purchase protection was a risk-free money back guarantee with which to get the money back that he already pledged, but PayPal told him to go fuck himself.


when i was a kid (i think about 13), i remember i did this!!!
i had a wallet attached with a fishing string, i putted it close to the street while watching from the window inside my house, i tricked 3 or 4 people xDD
but i wouldn't never do it with 50k, if i ever seen 50k i would just freeze and freak out with such money...
but one thing is the old lost wallet trick..it is harmless..
another thing is pretend to give something... and playing with such big money...
you have to respect the money!


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## driverdis (Jun 10, 2016)

migles said:


> when i was a kid (i think about 13), i remember i did this!!!
> i had a wallet attached with a fishing string, i putted it close to the street while watching from the window inside my house, i tricked 3 or 4 people xDD
> but i wouldn't never do it with 50k, if i ever seen 50k i would just freeze and freak out with such money...
> but one thing is the old lost wallet trick..it is harmless..
> ...



well, this took it one step forward. Imagine actually getting to keep the dollar (with an invisible string attached) and months later after you spent a different dollar, that dollar is pulled out of your wallet out of nowhere.

now you are down a dollar and did not even consider that you would somehow have it taken months later.

When I donate to people, I make it a point that even If it hurts me (like overdrafting because of an unplanned event after donating), I will never ever charge-back/refund, or demand money back.


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## Veho (Jun 10, 2016)

Upon further digging, it turns out most of the $50,000 were legitimate donations that were never disputed or cancelled; the guy did cancel a few donations and some of those claims were refused by PayPal, but most of his donations were undisputed and he really is in the habit of giving people money. Please put down the pitchforks and torches. Turns out all the sources I listed were just a circle jerk quoting each other and not doing any research, me included. So it looks like the real asshole in this case was me all along. [IRONY!]

Anyway, thread closed while the parties involved are done with the he-said-she-said and the truth comes out.


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