# Why I hate Biden's tax plan on the rich



## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Now before I start let me say that I do not endorse Biden nor Trump, I don't give a damn about either candidate. What I do notice about one of these candidates is that they have a destructive tax plan that will destroy America. What is the plan, to tax the rich. Now that may not seem very bad but let me explain. You see, Mr.Biden acts like the rich owes the government something for being successful in life. Even if they do, how much is the question? 37 to 39 percent tax increases will come to those making over $400K a year. Now Mr.Biden suggests this will help America but it won't. People who work in industries that pay * no more than $400k a year *will no longer want to work in that industry because they will be treated like they work $20k a year so they will quit that job, if everyone does so then no one will work in that industry. Also, high-paid CEOs will no longer want to be rich since their taxed so much, and those who want to be rich one day will forget it. Thanks to Biden since many will leave those jobs no one will do it meaning the economic system is fucked if this tax plan happens


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Also, high-paid CEOs will no longer want to be rich


Lmao, not sure how to respond to that one.  Let me put it to you this way: after their second house and yacht, a lot of rich people would no longer know how to live if they weren't rich.

$400K+ a year, you're living the good life in America, even in most coastal states.  Trump cut their taxes in half, so they can afford to pay "regular" rates again.  In our most prosperous decades as a country, the top tax bracket was between 70% and 90%.  Nobody needs as much money as Bezos, he couldn't spend it in a million lifetimes.  Maybe he's hoping to digitize himself or become immortal some other way, IDK.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Lmao, not sure how to respond to that one.  Let me put it to you this way: after their second house and yacht, a lot of rich people would no longer know how to live if they weren't rich.
> 
> $400K+ a year, you're living the good life in America, even in most coastal states.  Trump cut their taxes in half, so they can afford to pay "regular" rates again.  In our most prosperous decades as a country, the top tax bracket was between 70% and 90%.  Nobody needs as much money as Bezos, he couldn't spend it in a million lifetimes.  Maybe he's hoping to digitize himself or become immortal some other way, IDK.


However, will there be a rich anymore. With these taxes, it would be impossible to have that lifestyle. If your Bezos that's fair but for millionaires, not billionaires.


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## SG854 (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch what are you doing in the politics section causing trouble. 

Get back to the EOF this instant! Now! 
You got yourself into big trouble young man.


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## Deleted User (Mar 30, 2021)

Didn't expect to find you here, like, at all


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> However, will there be a rich anymore. With these taxes, it would be impossible to have that lifestyle. If your Bezos that's fair but for millionaires, not billionaires.


Nonsense, the rich will keep getting rich and the poor will keep getting poorer, that's the way the system's designed.  Even if/when Biden raises their taxes, they can afford expensive tax lawyers to reduce their rate to a fraction of what's advertised.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> WiiMiiSwitch what are you doing in the politics section causing trouble.
> 
> Get back to the EOF this instant! Now!
> You got yourself into big trouble young man.


Oh no! I talked about politics. I hate politics what am I doing here? I have to go back to using the caps lock key and yelling about my polls. What have I done! I've made a huge mistake!

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Lang_Kasempo said:


> Didn't expect to find you here, like, at all


I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ME


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## osaka35 (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> However, will there be a rich anymore. With these taxes, it would be impossible to have that lifestyle. If your Bezos that's fair but for millionaires, not billionaires.


Not how US taxes work.

It is NOT: once you make 400k, all of your income is suddenly taxed at 37-39%.
It IS: once you make 400k, all income made BEYOND 400k gets taxed at 37-39%.

But really, if they aren't going to bother closing the loopholes that allow them to pay less than what they should, somehow I doubt the higher tax bracket for incomes over a certain amount is going to do much.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nonsense, the rich will keep getting rich and the poor will keep getting poorer, that's the way the system's designed.  Even if/when Biden raises their taxes, they can afford expensive tax lawyers to reduce their rate to a fraction of what's advertised.


I don't mind 5 to 10 percent tax increases for the rich, however, Biden is discriminating against them for their success. It's honestly sad. Instead of the rich who spent years of dreaming getting richer, they get poorer. I've always disagreed with that saying because the poor can be rich with hard work, but this makes me feel bad. I grew up in a poor family, but this still makes me sad how they treat the rich

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osaka35 said:


> Not how how US taxes work.
> 
> It is NOT: once you make 400k, all of your income is suddenly taxed at 37-39%.
> It IS: once you make 400k, all income made BEYOND 400k gets taxed at 37-39%.
> ...


Well, fake news for me, but still, my sayings can still work because it could be a slight difference like $400,100 for example


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Well, fake news for me, but still, my sayings can still work because it could be a slight difference like $400,100 for example


Then only that $100 will have 39% taken out of it.  That's how progressive tax brackets work.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Then only that $100 will have 39% taken out of it.  That's how progressive tax brackets work.


I can't argue with that, however, I still believe the rich shouldn't be discriminated


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I can't argue with that, however, I still believe the rich shouldn't be discriminated


My friend, the rich are the closest thing we have to royalty in capitalist America.  Donald Trump was elected _solely_ because he was rich (or perceived to be).  They're the ones who get the lower classes to discriminate against each other in order to avoid a proletariat unified against them.  Simply put: feeling bad for the top 10-15% of "earners" is a waste of your time.  They took the vast majority of their wealth from the excess value generated by workers lower down on the chain.  Or they were born into it and never did an honest day's work in their lives.


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## SG854 (Mar 30, 2021)

The Rich also gets all the Women


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Xzi said:


> My friend, the rich are the closest thing we have to royalty in capitalist America.  Donald Trump was elected _solely_ because he was rich (or perceived to be).  They're the ones who get the lower classes to discriminate against each other in order to avoid a proletariat unified against them.  Simply put: feeling bad for the top 10-15% of "earners" is a waste of your time.  They took the vast majority of their wealth from the excess value generated by workers lower down on the chain.  Or they were born into it and never did an honest day's work in their lives.


Well, imagine you worked hard your entire life then the government gives you the middle finger. Also, it's deadly for economics as less may take the job


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> The Rich also gets pays for all the Women


FTFY.



WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Well, imagine you worked hard your entire life then the government gives you the middle finger. Also, it's deadly for economics as less may take the job


If you actually worked hard to earn your wealth, you should want to give others the opportunity to do the same.  We can't even afford to repair our crumbling roads and infrastructure without the rich paying their fair share in taxes.  If all our bridges start collapsing around the same time, _that_ would be deadly for economics.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> The Rich also gets all the Women


OH YEAH, ANOTHER REASON NOT TO TAX THEM. THE WOMAN


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## SG854 (Mar 30, 2021)

IDK about CEO'S not wanting to be rich. They still wanna be rich. Taxing them higher won't stop that. And they do it through tax loopholes and putting their money in secret off shore bank accounts lol.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> IDK about CEO'S not wanting to be rich. They still wanna be rich. Taxing them higher won't stop that. And they do it through tax loopholes and putting their money in secret off shore bank accounts lol.



I'm going back to the edge. I hate politics


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## SAIYAN48 (Mar 30, 2021)

Do you know why taxing the rich is a good thing? It's so scum like Moscow Mitch don't get to make $53/min.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

XAIXER said:


> Do you know why taxing the rich is a good thing? It's so scum like Moscow Mitch don't get to make $53/min.





XAIXER said:


> Do you know why taxing the rich is a good thing? It's so scum like Moscow Mitch don't get to make $5/min.


I agree with taxing the rich just not overdoing it


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I agree with taxing the rich just not overdoing it


Believe me, we aren't overdoing it relative to almost any other first-world nation on Earth.  Everything in America still looks like it was built in the 80s at the most recent.  Pictures of certain other places look like the Jetsons by comparison.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Believe me, we aren't overdoing it relative to almost any other first-world nation on Earth.  Everything in America still looks like it was built in the 80s at the most recent.  Pictures of certain other places look like the Jetsons by comparison.


America does have lots of problems


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## Benja81 (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Well, imagine you worked hard your entire life then the government gives you the middle finger. Also, it's deadly for economics as less may take the job



Rich people="imagine you worked hard your entire life then the government gives you the middle finger"...then you go blow off some steam in your yacht with your partner(s) of choice drinking champagne and even with those extra taxes, still have plenty of money to burn and leave your kids and grandkids.

Poor people without any assistance=imagine you worked hard your entire life for rich people while they give you the middle finger. You can never retire, and still living in poverty struggling to get some food on the table, very likely to die homeless and young.

Its pretty easy to see which ones worse and I'll let the experts figure out how much is good, vs thinking I have any clue.


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> America does have lots of problems


And a number of them in the healthcare, education, and infrastructure sectors can be solved with more public spending.  But for that you need more revenue, aka taxes.  Well, unless you're gonna cut the military's budget even a little bit, but nobody seems to want to do that.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> Rich people="imagine you worked hard your entire life then the government gives you the middle finger"...then you go blow off some steam in your yacht with your partner(s) of choice drinking champagne and even with those extra taxes, still have plenty of money to burn and leave your kids and grandkids.
> 
> Poor people without any assistance=imagine you worked hard your entire life for rich people while they give you the middle finger. You can never retire, and still living in poverty struggling to get some food on the table, very likely to die homeless and young.
> 
> Its pretty easy to see which ones worse and I'll let the experts figure out how much is good, vs thinking I have any clue.


I totally understand your point. I grew up in a poor family. However, I just believe with hard work anything can be achieved

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Xzi said:


> And a number of them in the healthcare, education, and infrastructure sectors can be solved with more public spending.  But for that you need more revenue, aka taxes.  Well, unless you're gonna cut the military's budget even a little bit, but nobody seems to want to do that.


The military is overpayed. However a lot if what you said is also funded by the states


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## Xzi (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> The military is overlayed. However a lot if what you said is also funded by the states


Some, not a lot.  Most states take far less of your income in taxes than the federal government, unless you do a very specific type of work I suppose.  The federal government then grants money to individual states for various projects, improvements, etc.


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## Benja81 (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I totally understand your point. I grew up in a poor family. However, I just believe with hard work anything can be achieved


Its true sometimes, but I'd say don't forget that a person who finds that when they try hard enough anything becomes possible to them, is a fortunate and blessed person. No matter whether they were born rich or poor. For the fortunate being born poor can be a motivation to work towards something much better. To a less fortunate person being poor could be a life sentence with no way out.


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## Jayro (Mar 30, 2021)

Unless you make over 70,000+ a year, you don't have to worry about it. The rich can afford it. I'm not going to lose an ounce of sleep over a billionaire paying a few million in taxes.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Now before I start let me say that I do not endorse Biden nor Trump, I don't give a damn about either candidate.


...
Let me just say "you're five months late". I'm not sure what article you read or watched, but I'm fairly sure it's outdated. Not the best strategy if you want to convince anyone.



WiiMiiSwitch said:


> What I do notice about one of these candidates is that they have a destructive tax plan that will destroy America. What is the plan, to tax the rich. Now that may not seem very bad but let me explain. You see, Mr.Biden acts like the rich owes the government something for being successful in life. Even if they do, how much is the question? 37 to 39 percent tax increases will come to those making over $400K a year. Now Mr.Biden suggests this will help America but it won't. People who work in industries that pay * no more than $400k a year *will no longer want to work in that industry because they will be treated like they work $20k a year so they will quit that job, if everyone does so then no one will work in that industry. Also, high-paid CEOs will no longer want to be rich since their taxed so much, and those who want to be rich one day will forget it. Thanks to Biden since many will leave those jobs no one will do it meaning the economic system is fucked if this tax plan happens


Oh, boy...You probably don't intend to, but you manage to summarize all misinformation regarding taxes in this part of the post.

Here's the thing: before you want to tell others about your opinion, you should know what your opinion is based on. You basically assume a flat tax rate, but the US, like most countries in the world, use a form of progressive brackets (here's a world map). Sure, it's often averaged out to make countries more easily comparable, but it's not the same. @osaka35 told you this, but his fake news is really REAL news. If you want flat tax, you better move to Greenland or Khazakstan.
Notice anything in those listed countries? None of them has an economy that's even remotely up to par with the US. They don't attract millionaires or billionaires either (at best as headquarters, but that's a different situation).

I see your arguments, and know exactly where they're coming from: news outlets. Just about every news channel in the US pushes the agenda that taxing the rich doesn't work, based on emotional arguments ("discrimination!!!" "socialism!!!" "communism!!!") or shady economic theories ("trickle down economics", "unhindered free market is awesome"), while ignoring evidence. Why? Because the news channels, no matter what political spectrum, are owned by billionaires. Why the fuck would they allow their news anchors to say things against their own selfish interest? You think they'll let renowned economics come to explain just why redistribution of the wealth is a good idea? You think they'll tell people that most other countries in the world have far better social structures, in large part because their high end tax tiers are much higher? You think they'll remind people that the rich have always payed the most taxes and NEVER ONCE did it stop anyone? Fuck...US tax rates were far more progressive before Reagan became president (and not just in the US, to be honest). Ever since, they got tax cut after tax cut. The aforementioned renowned economists have always linked this (or rather: the growing inequality between the poor and rich, which is roughly the same thing) to the worsening state of the economy.

...and now you come to the aid of billionaires with...what? Discrimination? Fucking *Discrimination*?  Gimme a fucking break! When was the last time a rich person got forced to the ground to suffocate by the police for being rich? When was the last time a rich person got shot on sight because he was acting "suspicious"?

I mean...okay. Perhaps your personal motivation to get rich gets lowered. Could be. But most people would gladly have to deal with the "problem" of having their eleventh million dollar being taxed (much) more than their previous ten million ("NOOOOOOO!!!!!! ") than having to deal with the daily absense of money poor people handle on a daily basis.


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## Flame (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch thinks his going to become rich by making polls some how. thats why he doesnt like rich getting taxed 1c per a million.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Jayro said:


> Unless you make over 70,000+ a year, you don't have to worry about it. The rich can afford it. I'm not going to lose an ounce of sleep over a billionaire paying a few million in taxes.


Eh, the billionaires I'm fine with being taxed, as for millionaires, the reason I'm so censored is because it can hurt the economy

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Flame said:


> WiiMiiSwitch thinks his going to become rich by making polls some how. thats why he doesnt like rich getting taxed 1c per a million.


I'm gonna be rich with polls


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## seany1990 (Mar 30, 2021)

It's strange that you care so much about the wellbeing of the elite when they have shown absolutely no concern for yours


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> ...
> Let me just say "you're five months late". I'm not sure what article you read or watched, but I'm fairly sure it's outdated. Not the best strategy if you want to convince anyone.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm very much censored about the economy, many economists disagree with Biden, of course I am very late but still, it hasn't happened yet so that's why I made this thread

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seany1990 said:


> It's strange that you care so much about the wellbeing of the elite when they have shown absolutely no concern for yours


Well, most don't care about the people, however, I'm just censorned that hard work is just going to get you somewhere else then your supposed to be


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## Taleweaver (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I'm very much censored about the economy, many economists disagree with Biden, of course I am very late but still, it hasn't happened yet so that's why I made this thread


Of course economists are divided. Conservatives and republicans have always floated the idea that rich people tend to generate more jobs, and that any attempt to tax them more would cause them to create less jobs.
The problem is that this trickle down economic theory can't really be mathematically disproven. It hasn't proven itself in action (rather the opposite...very much the opposite, in fact), but it's more a matter of opinion than anything you can scientifically prove or disprove. But meanwhile, countries with smaller economic inequality prove themselves better for its inhabitants on most if not all fields than their counterparts. That could be seen as proof that Biden's tax plans (of which I really don't know anything more than "it taxes the rich more", because ey...if you don't research anything, I won't be doing your homework either) just might make the US a better place overall.

Also...don't you mean "concerned" instead of "censored"? Because if not, I have no idea what your first part of your reply's about.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 30, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> Of course economists are divided. Conservatives and republicans have always floated the idea that rich people tend to generate more jobs, and that any attempt to tax them more would cause them to create less jobs.
> The problem is that this trickle down economic theory can't really be mathematically disproven. It hasn't proven itself in action (rather the opposite...very much the opposite, in fact), but it's more a matter of opinion than anything you can scientifically prove or disprove. But meanwhile, countries with smaller economic inequality prove themselves better for its inhabitants on most if not all fields than their counterparts. That could be seen as proof that Biden's tax plans (of which I really don't know anything more than "it taxes the rich more", because ey...if you don't research anything, I won't be doing your homework either) just might make the US a better place overall.
> 
> Also...don't you mean "concerned" instead of "censored"? Because if not, I have no idea what your first part of your reply's about.


Did I say censored? My apologies. I am a little under the weather today. Anyways, your right. People focus more on politics then math which is why our country is broken


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## Nerdtendo (Mar 30, 2021)

I take most issue with the idealology of the whole thing. We live in a capitalist country. The amount of money that someone should theoretically be able to make should be boundless. A good friend of mine grew up dirt poor, but after years of blood, sweat, and tears, he has made himself and his family quite a nest egg. I don't see why his hard work should be bottlenecked because someone who hasn't accomplished as much is sad. He may have more money then he needs, but he earned every cent. In a capitalist country, that's kinda the whole point. Everyone always yells "taxation is theft" until they're in a position where they benefit from doing no extra work.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 30, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Did I say censored? My apologies. I am a little under the weather today. Anyways, your right. People focus more on politics then math which is why our country is broken


Well...if it's any relief: the US isn't the only country where that's a problem. Belgium's among the most taxed countries in the world, but while we've got a "fine" government, we should be getting much better quality than what we're paying for.
Also: hope you'll get better. 



Nerdtendo said:


> I take most issue with the idealology of the whole thing. We live in a capitalist country. The amount of money that someone should theoretically be able to make should be boundless. A good friend of mine grew up dirt poor, but after years of blood, sweat, and tears, he has made himself and his family quite a nest egg. I don't see why his hard work should be bottlenecked because someone who hasn't accomplished as much is sad. He may have more money then he needs, but he earned every cent. In a capitalist country, that's kinda the whole point. Everyone always yells "taxation is theft" until they're in a position where they benefit from doing no extra work.


...but it IS boundless. You're acting as if there are brackets where the taxation rate is over 100% somehow, which simply isn't true. No matter what country you're in, there's always an upper bracket.

I don't yell taxation is theft, and frankly...anyone with some sense doesn't yell that either. Would your friend have been able to make something from himself if he couldn't get education? Or even simpler: if there wasn't a road next to his house? If he had to dispose of his own garbage instead of having garbage collection facility? These are but a few examples, but there are many, many examples where the state provides services of life that basically allows its citizens to flourish.

The ideology "capitalism" doesn't really say much in terms of how big or small the role of the government really is. And as such, it can't be used to say how much tax is really fair. I mean...I already said Belgium has an incredibly high tax rate...but I also live in a capitalist country. Because the money I earn (minus taxes) is mine, I can work harder or push for promotion and get more. It's not a model the average US citizens want because I won't lie: about half my bruto loan goes to all sorts of taxes. But on the flipside: I can get ill and see a doctor on a whim's notice (unlike what some moron claims in an adjacent thread). Last time I payed less than 5 euros for a full checkup of our daughter. Covid has made me partially unemployed, but the state compensates so much that I literally have the same net income as otherwise. Public transport's cheap and available. And I can go on.

Should I fall without a job, I'll be compensated. Heck...I've had it happen. Was unemployed for over a year. While I could technically survive, I had no reason to do so. Why? Because we humans aren't made to slack around. We simply aren't. Experiments with basic income have proven that time and time again, but despite this, guys like you claim that they won't move an inch when they were put in a position when they're given "free money" somehow.
(or to put it different: that "free money" I got simply cost me too much morally to remain unemployed for even a day longer than I wanted).


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## Viri (Mar 30, 2021)

Your daily reminder that this tax haven exist in Biden's state that he was a rep of. Will he go after this? Over 285,000 companies are registered there. Including mega companies like Google, Coca-Cola, GM, Walmart, and even both 2016 Presidential candidates.



Spoiler



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_Trust_Center_(CT_Corporation)





Spoiler


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## Nerdtendo (Mar 30, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> Well...if it's any relief: the US isn't the only country where that's a problem. Belgium's among the most taxed countries in the world, but while we've got a "fine" government, we should be getting much better quality than what we're paying for.
> Also: hope you'll get better.
> 
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying, but I still can't get behind the idea that as you make more money, you keep less of it. However, I will be the first to admit my beliefs come from a mostly anecdotal position


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## Seliph (Mar 30, 2021)

Most tax plans targeting the rich don't work anyway since rich people find easy ways around it. Amazon has weaseled their way out of paying taxes for years. No matter what, rich people will find some way to hoard their money away otherwise they wouldn't be rich. Rich people will always evade taxes and they will always build their wealth on the backs of exploited workers, otherwise they wouldn't be rich. Rich people have just become a modern aristocracy as social mobility has drastically declined and the only people who make it big in this system tend to be people like Elon Musk who only got as far as he did because his family made millions off of Apartheid emerald mines in South Africa, literal slavery. 

In lieu of this, I have developed a solution:


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## Reiten (Mar 30, 2021)

Nerdtendo said:


> I see what you're saying, but I still can't get behind the idea that as you make more money, you keep less of it. However, I will be the first to admit my beliefs come from a mostly anecdotal position


The thing is, unless we're talking about a fixed tax, then as your earnings rise you still have more money after taxes. Unless one of the tax brackets starts to charge above 100% tax, there won't be a situation where you get a pay raise and end up with less money, then before the raise.
I recommend you either look up the local tax laws, or make up some of your own, and try to calculate what's left after taxes to get a feel for how progressive tax brackets work.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 30, 2021)

Nerdtendo said:


> I see what you're saying, but I still can't get behind the idea that as you make more money, you keep less of it. However, I will be the first to admit my beliefs come from a mostly anecdotal position


It's understandable. What can I say?
The way I see it, I'm doing my part to keep society afloat. The civil clerics ensuring everyone's legal documents are in order? Partially mine. Local library? I helped pay for it. Schools? All mine.
And yes... I've been unemployed. Before I got my first job, I got through paying the rent by tax payers' money. As such, now that I'm working (well... Full time before corona), I'm also glad to help out those who are now in the position that I was. 
Perhaps it's also a bit psychological. For our day jobs, our 'full' loan is but dead letter. On the monthly letter, it starts with my full loan (about 3'000 euros) and then subtracts all taxes to end slightly below 2000 euro, which is what I consider my REAL loan, and what goes into my bank account without to much fuss(1). I mean... If I got that 3000 on my account to hold on for some months and if news outlets banged on how worthless government really was(2), I would rather have lower taxes as well. Right now, it's just organized without too much fuss. 



(1): this isn't everything, mind you. There are more taxes added later. And even the reverse. Because of my family situation, I now get back a couple hundred euros every year.
(2): I haven't been to the US, but I can't help having the impression of piss poor return on your tax investment on anything that's not the army


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## Taleweaver (Mar 30, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Most tax plans targeting the rich don't work anyway since rich people find easy ways around it. Amazon has weaseled their way out of paying taxes for years. No matter what, rich people will find some way to hoard their money away otherwise they wouldn't be rich. Rich people will always evade taxes and they will always build their wealth on the backs of exploited workers, otherwise they wouldn't be rich. Rich people have just become a modern aristocracy as social mobility has drastically declined and the only people who make it big in this system tend to be people like Elon Musk who only got as far as he did because his family made millions off of Apartheid emerald mines in South Africa, literal slavery.
> 
> In lieu of this, I have developed a solution:


*sigh*

Why is it always either people think everything the rich do is okay, or absolutely nothing?

I'm well aware of the tricks many rich people use to pay as little taxes as possible. It disgusts me as well, and if you think what those evaded taxes could've achieved when they were payed, the death penalty often isn't even that light of a sentence (otherwise said: if hospitals operate sub-par because of low funding, more medical mistakes get made and more people die. As such, evading taxes for the operating cost of a hospital equals at least endangering multiple lives). At the very least, it would signal the 1% that there are things their money couldn't buy them, so it'd get them in line.

The problem: you can't generalize like that. 1% of the population still consists of many millions of people. I simply refuse to believe that all those must've gotten their wealth through shady practices, walking ethical lines or exploitation of others. There has, is and always will be proper, decent and ecological ways to get rich. Perhaps not filthy rich (that 1% isn't exactly homogenous in their wealth distribution either), but enough to prosper. Dangling pitchforks, axes and (in this case) guillotines in front of people isn't...

...erm...

Okay, I was going to say "...isn't helping", but that'd be wrong. It would most certainly help. But it's not ethical. If we're just going to kill them and steal their wealth (let's not kid ourselves: NOT doing the latter means we pretty much have to kill all the heirs of the fortunes as well, and that's even messier :-\ ), we're only temporarily switching places.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Mar 30, 2021)

Seliph said:


> In lieu of this, I have developed a solution:


Based


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## LumInvader (Mar 31, 2021)




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## WiiMiiSwitch (Mar 31, 2021)

This is one reason I hate politics, actually many reasons, fake news, arguing, two sides. Some stuff I said in this thread was due to fake news. Some of it was true, some wasn't. Here we are seeing many choosing sides arguing. Why did I even make a thread on politics?


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## ZeroFX (Mar 31, 2021)

Yikes on taxing the rich, anyone with 1 or 2 brain cells know this won't work. Not with some really thought out plan.

And that's it.


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## Xzi (Mar 31, 2021)

ZeroFX said:


> Yikes on taxing the rich, anyone with 1 or 2 brain cells know this won't work.
> 
> And that's it.


It demonstrably has worked throughout most of American history.  The "trickle down economics is the only way" propaganda didn't kick into high gear until the 1980s.


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## ZeroFX (Mar 31, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It demonstrably has worked throughout most of American history.  The "trickle down economics is the only way" propaganda didn't kick into high gear until the 1980s.


i hope it passes then, i mean it's not my country, if it works, it worked, if not then just another example on history...


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## Xzi (Mar 31, 2021)

ZeroFX said:


> i hope it passes then, i mean it's not my country, if it works, it worked, if not then just another example on history...


Yeah I was curious so I looked it up...Japan's top tax bracket is 40%, so even with Biden's tax increase ours would still be lower.  Trump had previously cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations almost in half, so our debt and deficit were ballooning.


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## LumInvader (Mar 31, 2021)

*A huge study of 50 years of tax cuts for the wealthy suggests 'trickle-down' economics makes inequality worse*
https://www.businessinsider.com/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down-income-inequality-study-2020-12


> - Large tax cuts for the rich lead to higher income inequality and don't fuel economic growth or cut unemployment, a new paper by academics from the London School of Economics and King's College London says.
> -Their analysis of 50 years' worth of tax cuts for the wealthy in 18 countries counters arguments that such cuts "trickle down" to the rest of the economy.
> - "Cutting taxes on the rich increases top income shares, but has little effect on economic performance," the researchers concluded.


 
Also of note, Trump's supply side tax cut was also executed out of his own self-interest.  Not so much for himself, but for his family and allies.  After admitting in 2016 that he hadn't paid Federal taxes in years, he was quoted as saying, "That makes me smart."  A tax cut for someone who doesn't pay taxes doesn't really count as a personal tax cut does it?  This coming from the same person who also promoted election fraud conspiracy theories as an additional means to enrich himself.  

Also under Trump's watch:

*Top 1% Of U.S. Households Hold 15 Times More Wealth Than Bottom 50% Combined*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...15-times-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-combined/


> According to the latest Fed data, the top 1% of Americans have a combined net worth of $34.2 trillion (or 30.4% of all household wealth in the U.S.), while the bottom 50% of the population holds just $2.1 trillion combined (or 1.9% of all wealth).


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## notimp (Apr 1, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> A huge study of 50 years of tax cuts for the wealthy suggests 'trickle-down' economics makes inequality worse


Yup:


Primary source:
https://money.cnn.com/2015/06/15/news/economy/trickle-down-theory-wrong-imf/index.html?iid=SF_LN


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## The Catboy (Apr 3, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> People who work in industries that pay * no more than $400k a year *will no longer want to work in that industry because they will be treated like they work $20k a year so they will quit that job, if everyone does so then no one will work in that industry. Also, high-paid CEOs will no longer want to be rich since their taxed so much, and those who want to be rich one day will forget it. Thanks to Biden since many will leave those jobs no one will do it meaning the economic system is fucked if this tax plan happens


This is literally not how any of this works nor is this even backed up by recent history. The 1950s had some of the highest taxes on the rich, yet the economy was booming during that time. It's also worth noting that times, when the rich were taxed the least, is when the economy started to tank. Economists have even found that lower taxes on the rich does not encourage growth and has actually been contributed to economic stagnation and recessions. The only ones claiming that lowering taxes "works" are the super-rich and corporations, all of whom often don't even pay taxes or use loopholes to pay the least possible on their taxes. Even under Biden's tax plans they still aren't being taxed enough to make a difference on their bank accounts.


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## Lacius (Apr 3, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> This is literally not how any of this works nor is this even backed up by recent history. The 1950s had some of the highest taxes on the rich, yet the economy was booming during that time. It's also worth noting that times, when the rich were taxed the least, is when the economy started to tank. Economists have even found that lower taxes on the rich does not encourage romantic growth and has actually been contributed to economic stagnation and recessions. The only ones claiming that lowering taxes "works" are the super-rich and corporations, all of whom often don't even pay taxes or use loopholes to pay the least possible on their taxes. Even under Biden's tax plans they still aren't being taxed enough to make a difference on their bank accounts.


There's ample data showing taxing the rich at higher rates and using that money on social programs boosts the economy and jobs numbers, since it puts more money in the pockets of people in lower income brackets who have to spend that money, which in turn increases demand for thise products and services, creates more jobs, and causes a positive feedback loop of this.

Lowering taxes on the rich has been shown to stifle the economy, since the rich sit on that money, and giving the rich more money does nothing to increase demand for their products and services, and therefore doesn't change how much they invest in jobs to sell those products and services.


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## Seliph (Apr 3, 2021)




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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 3, 2021)

Seliph said:


>


whenever i see this image i think of the time someone captioned it "jesus punishes a sinner by making her French"


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