# Hideki Kamiya: "PlayStation All-Stars is just a ripoff"



## Deleted_171835 (Aug 5, 2012)

http://twitter.com/PG_kamiya

my man kamiya


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## raulpica (Aug 5, 2012)

I've had to clean the entire thread. Nobody freaking cares about who likes which console or what.

soulx has posted something Hideki Kamiya has said on Twitter - you can either deal with it and post a constructive comment - or just stay away from the thread entirely if you're just going to say the usual "lolsoulxhaetssony / lolguildhaetsnintendo". It's getting stale.

This is not USN, so this thread is not a mortal sin or something. Just food for thought and topic for discussion, which is PERFECTLY allowed.

Thanks.


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## wrettcaughn (Aug 5, 2012)

One of those "if you don't like it, don't play it" type deals this is...
Voicing your disapproval that a company is developing a game that you believe to be a "rip-off" of another game is just silly in the age of CoD/Gears of War/Diablo/etc...


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## Hells Malice (Aug 5, 2012)

No idea who the guy is. Had to google him, and I still don't know who the hell he is.
He's worked on like 3 games worth mentioning...

Anyway, the whole outcry of this being a Smash Bros ripoff is so fucking annoying. Yeah, it's mashing Playstation allstars together to fight. Big freakin' whoop, mash ups like this happen all the time.
Just because it has a similar concept as Smash Bros doesn't mean it's identical. The game looks to play quite a bit different. The way you get kills, and just the way characters respond to dealing and taking damage in general is entirely different.
Also the stages all look really, really boring. (the stage themselves, the backgrounds are nice enough).
I doubt i'll get it, doesn't look that fun. But at the same time, I don't see the point in bitching and crying about the game for "copying" Smash Bros.

People should stop crying about it, they just look like a retarded Nintendo fanboy.


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## KingVamp (Aug 5, 2012)

Tbh, as a dev, there are some things I'll keep my mouth close for. I wouldn't want it to bite me in the butt.



soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > No idea who the guy is. Had to google him, and I still don't know who the hell he is.
> ...


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 5, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> No idea who the guy is. Had to google him, and I still don't know who the hell he is.
> He's worked on like 3 games worth mentioning...


He's directed Viewtiful Joe, Bayonetta, Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry, Okami, Bayonetta.

ಠ_ಠ


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 5, 2012)

I hope it'll be competition for Nintendo. The Super Smash Bros series has hardly had a worthy opponent ever since its release on the N64 and I hope this game will give Nintendo something to think about.

Will it do that? Probably not. Smash Bros has built up a huge fan base and there will always be those die hard fans who will bash the game and any one who plays it (or even mentions it)


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## BrightNeko (Aug 5, 2012)

everyone out the gate is calling it that >_> everyone already "knows" with out playing, but everyone who says it is still going to get it. An most likely enjoy it =/


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## Hells Malice (Aug 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > No idea who the guy is. Had to google him, and I still don't know who the hell he is.
> ...



Oh.
Well.
Maybe he should get his name out there for it.


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## emigre (Aug 5, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Tbh, as a dev, there are some things I'll keep my mouth close for. I wouldn't want it to bite me in the butt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bayonetta is so good, it has to be mentioned twice.


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## wrettcaughn (Aug 5, 2012)

...and he worked on both games?  What exactly is he saying here?

not that I really care...

at all...


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## Hop2089 (Aug 5, 2012)

SSB will still be better, PS All-Stars seems too Western for it's own good and an ok by not very appealing experimental gameplay showcase while SSB is perfect, not too Western and not too Japanese, the gameplay is fun and enjoyable despite inferior graphics to Sony systems, plus since it's Nintendo you have a much wider audience.  While it doesn't suck, it doesn't appeal to me as anything special.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 5, 2012)

Here's the thing. Bayonetta is kinda a Devil May Cry rip off. Not that that's bad, but literally every reviewer showered it with praise for being Devil May Cry.

So what's the difference here? Yeah, it plays like SSB but it's not exactly the same. Combat is different, scoring is different, it just shares the concept of being a mash-up and a similar level layout. If anything they've been respectful to being acknowledged as SSB like. Here's one of their statements:

"I can’t blame people for using it. I totally understand where the comparisons come from. We’re fans of the brawler genre and fighting games at large. We understand that we’re taking some of the best things that have come before us and also adding something new to it. Our new core gameplay mechanic and the super system we feel are pretty original and offer something new to sort of the great tradition to brawlers and fighting games at large.

Show me the original game at E3 this year that borrows no elements from no game that has come before it."

It's a nice statement. They like the genre, they know they're similar, but it's also their own creation. He's not Gameloft. He's not Zynga. He's taking an idea and making it his own. It's called "inspiration".

The same thing is with Bayonetta. It's definitely inspired by DMC and everyone says it's almost a DMC in its own right. But since we've got a Sony brand name on this, it's instantly a shameless rip off made by scumbags who should burn in the deepest depths of hell.

I can see not taking interest in the game if maybe the characters don't appeal to you or you don't like the genre, but actively going out of your way to hate on it? That's shallow.

I don't think it'll be better than SSB, not at all, but I think it'll be a fun game and its about time we saw a crossover game for Sony franchises, and we got one that looks both appropriate and fun. But of course everyone needs to rain piss on the parade because they have nothing better to do.


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## Black-Ice (Aug 5, 2012)

Nobody has to right to complain about copying until copyrights get infringed.
Thats what they and their lawyers are there for.

The game has potential, it depends on how they pull off the important things: the fighting system, the character diversity and the one different thing that makes people remember the game.
This and LBPK will make party time with a PS3 that much more fun. And although im an xbox user, I look forward to playing both. And slyly wish Xbox would do their own,


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Here's the thing. Bayonetta is kinda a Devil May Cry rip off. Not that that's bad, but literally every reviewer showered it with praise for being Devil May Cry
> 
> The same thing is with Bayonetta. It's definitely inspired by DMC and everyone says it's almost a DMC in its own right. But since we've got a Sony brand name on this, it's instantly a shameless rip off made by scumbags who should burn in the deepest depths of hell.


How the hell do you rip off your own game?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the thing. Bayonetta is kinda a Devil May Cry rip off. Not that that's bad, but literally every reviewer showered it with praise for being Devil May Cry
> ...



It doesn't matter if he made it or not, it's basically Devil May Cry.

Also it's not like he was involved with the good Devil May Cry. DMC3 beats the shit out of the rest. He only did the first one, which is kinda average nowadays.


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## wrettcaughn (Aug 5, 2012)

well, technically...

The King of Fighters and Marvel vs. Capcom came before Super Smash Bros...

So really SSB wasn't the first to the mash-up party


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 5, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> well, technically...
> 
> The King of Fighters and Marvel vs. Capcom came before Super Smash Bros...
> 
> So really SSB wasn't the first to the mash-up party



Lol wat?


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## Black-Ice (Aug 5, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> well, technically...
> 
> The King of Fighters and Marvel vs. Capcom came before Super Smash Bros...
> 
> So really SSB wasn't the first to the mash-up party


The reason people are complaining is that its a 4-character-on-screen mash up.
MVC and KOF are 1 on 1's  and quite different so complaining about similarities between them and SSB would be retarded.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It doesn't matter if he made it or not, it's basically Devil May Cry.
> 
> Also it's not like he was involved with the good Devil May Cry. DMC3 beats the shit out of the rest. He only did the first one, which is kinda average nowadays.


If it's your own creation, it's not the same at all.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't matter if he made it or not, it's basically Devil May Cry.
> ...



Odds are it plays more like Devil May Cry 3 than the first game. Even then, my point is that he's calling it a "rip off' when he did basically the same idea. Doesn't matter if it's his game or not.

Either way, why are you so intent on being such a sourpuss and actively going out of your way to bitch about Sony? I make a few dick comments poking fun at Nintendo now and then but I don't make fucking threads actively trying to piss everywhere.


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## emigre (Aug 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't matter if he made it or not, it's basically Devil May Cry.
> ...



Self plagiarism if you want to push it.

/Guess who won't wrote a dissertation a few months ago?


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 5, 2012)

You guys can argue this all day. You'll never reach a conclusion.   

What I want to know is when did Game Devs begin thinking that they're badasses?


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## Black-Ice (Aug 5, 2012)

> *rip-off*(r
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Source


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Odds are it plays more like Devil May Cry 3 than the first game. Even then, my point is that he's calling it a "rip off' when he did basically the same idea. Doesn't matter if it's his game or not.
> 
> Either way, why are you so intent on being such a sourpuss and actively going out of your way to bitch about Sony? I make a few dick comments poking fun at Nintendo now and then but I don't make fucking threads actively trying to piss everywhere.


Bayonetta is inspired based off _his own ideas. _There's a big difference.

Guild, stop getting your panties in a bunch. A thread on Kamiya's comments isn't pissing on Sony. 



Old8oy said:


> ...and he worked on both games?  What exactly is he saying here?
> 
> not that I really care...
> 
> at all...


That's someone else's tweet (hence RT).

He responded with "Use your brain".


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 5, 2012)




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## emigre (Aug 5, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


>



Why are you ripping me off?


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## mad_gamer_jad (Aug 5, 2012)

I hate to be "That guy" who repeats the popular opinion, but I agree that it's not really much of a problem to take inspiration from smash bros. I mean, I remember many people being happy about Jump ultimate stars and that cartoon network game because thy bought smash bros to handhelds, or mixed up manga/cartoon characters, so why is it so bad if sony want to satisfy their fans? It's not like the game is a direct copy of Smash, it just uses a similar art style and lay out. Honestly, I'm glad sony decided to take their inspiration from smash for a crossover fighter, instead of opting for a more serious approach.
I'm pretty sure the game won't be as good as Smash bros, Sakurai puts everything into making those games and they undergo a long development cycle leading to pretty lengthy games with a ton of things to do, but PS All Stars sounds pretty fun too and should tide many over till the next smash bros is done in 2086. It also gets bonus points for being the first portable 3D party brawler that actually has potential(PS vita version)
Also >Kamiya
I fucking love how blunt he is


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## Master Mo (Aug 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


Personally I actually think it does matter... Even if Capcom owns the IP everyone who is working on DMC after the first one builds upon what he and his buddies came up with in the first game. So if he choose to built upon his own creation in an own game and has to use a new IP it is totally legitimate to do so imo. I think it is preposterous to say that!

I don`t think it is bad that PSBR is a rip-off because it is not like Sony is hiding it or something. I thought if they do something like Smash Sony would have gone the Power Stone-way, because they force strange ideas onto the SSB-formula to differentiate BR from it but that might not work in its favor... A fighting game like Power Stone would have givin them the chance to do something completely different then what Nintendo does with SSB!


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## Gahars (Aug 5, 2012)

Is there obvious inspiration from the Smash Bros. series? Of course, no one is trying to deny that. Is that necessarily bad? Of course not; if the developers can bring enough new stuff to the table and build upon what's come before it, everyone wins.

Throwing a hissy fit like this over an unreleased game on Twitter is a pretty immature move for a veteran developer... or anyone past the age of 13.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 6, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Is there obvious inspiration from the Smash Bros. series? Of course, no one is trying to deny that. Is that necessarily bad? Of course not; if the developers can bring enough new stuff to the table and build upon what's come before it, everyone wins.
> 
> Throwing a hissy fit like this over an unreleased game on Twitter is a pretty immature move for a veteran developer... or anyone past the age of 13.


Giving his opinion on the game is certainly not _"throwing a hissy fit"_.

I don't disagree with Kamiya, the game is a ripoff. There's not much integrity when your game derives the vast majority of its ideas from Smash Bros.


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## Gahars (Aug 6, 2012)

soulx said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Is there obvious inspiration from the Smash Bros. series? Of course, no one is trying to deny that. Is that necessarily bad? Of course not; if the developers can bring enough new stuff to the table and build upon what's come before it, everyone wins.
> ...




His posts read like a pouty, indignant child than a mature, reasoned developer. Also, declaring he already doesn't like a game that (a) isn't finished and (b) he hasn't played doesn't give one the best impression.

And "vast majority" of concepts? Both are crossover fighters that feature up to 4 players. However, the actual mechanics (the heart of a fighting game) seem pretty different between both games. We don't even know everything about PASBR (what modes will there be? how is single player handled? etc.) anyway; it's a bit premature to write it off.


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## Issac (Aug 6, 2012)

Marvel vs Capcom and King of Fighters. Look at those games, then look at SSB. Those (MvC and KoF) are normal fighting games with health bars, much like Street Fighter, with a bunch of different characters from different places (Mash-up if you will). SSB is more of a party based, ring-out fighting game (or brawler). Going to a shallow point, LOOK at the games! SSB has the 3D models and scenes in a 2D plane, childish cuteness all over the place, stages based on games with a certain feel to them (oh, and one character that is 2 dimensional Mr Game and Watch). KoF and MvC are spritebased, is 2D all the way through, has a more raw feel to the stages (set to correspond with the characters).
Yeah, enough about KoF and MvC versus SSB.
Now look at SSB and PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale. Going the shallow route once again, and hey, looks are the first impressions: 3D models and scenes in a 2D plane, the same cuteness (in lack of a better word of phrase to describe it) mixed with character models looking more like their original characters (nathan drake), but still fitted to match the rest of the graphics in some cases (fat princess for example). Also, there's one 2D character: Parappa. Themed stages (like it should be) that has the same feel to them as the ones in SSB, with the exeption that they mix two games for each stage (I like that idea a lot!). However, the looks of the stages and the feel of the stages graphically is the same as SSB.
For this point, I want you to see these two images, one from SSB Melee, and the other one from PSASBR:


Spoiler














Yes there are clear differences and all, but the feel of it all, the "cuteness" that I can't describe better...

Another point is the "final smash" attack? Was it called that? I'm not that good with names. When you've filled your gauge, you get this super power killing everything in a wink of an eye. Very much like the "smash"-orb thingy in SSB Brawl, not how you get it but how it works when you use it. Also, visually it has many similarities.

Like many have pointed out before me, many of the moves (again, visually at least) looks very similar to SSB, fall saves and whatever it's called. I must say though, that there's only so many moves to choose from, and I won't blame them for it.

Bottom line of this though: There are MANY similarities, much more similar than KoF and MvC are to SSB. Technical and visual similarities.
I DON'T BLAME THEM! This is a party brawler fighter thingy. mashing up awesome looking 3D models, so you have to make some changes and make them fit together. Just like SSB does, and I think it's fine!
I want this game! I think it looks AWESOME! The not-health-bar in PSASBR works differently than the not-health-bar in SSB, for better or for worse, I'll have to play it to decide. Hopefully that can be changed, just like in SSB (different modes).

Is it a rip-off? well.. kinda, a little bit in my eyes. They've said it themselves that they've "inspired" by SSB. Fair enough, they wouldn't say anything other than that. I accept it! Still looks awesome.
However, it's the "There are no similarities other than there are different characters from different IPs brawling"-comments that I don't accept. All those that scream at the top of their lungs that there are no similarities. Yes there are! Oh well, I'm getting tired.

Ultra TL;DR:
It IS an awesome rip-off (couldn't probably be done better at all). And I don't hate Sony for it (I'm looking forward to it!), I hate those who denies it.


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## AceWarhead (Aug 6, 2012)

YEs, it's a rip-off,  but consider this:
Everything we've seen has been done before. CoD, Battlefield, SSB, etc, Essentially everything's been done already. It's hard to create something new if so much of what you're trying to do has been done before.


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## Black-Ice (Aug 6, 2012)

AceWarhead said:


> Everything we've seen has been done before. CoD, Battlefield, SSB, etc, Essentially everything's been done already. It's hard to create something new if so much of what you're trying to do has been done before.


Exactly this.
Who and what is 100% original these days?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

Okay, another parallel: is BlazBlue a rip off of Street Fighter?

Both are 2D fighters with the same perspective. Each has original casts of characters.

By the definition here, why isn't BlazBlue a ripoff? Because the fighting is different? Well it is here as well. But we consider BlazBlue a quality, original fighter and Street Fighter as the same.

Odds are the BlazBlue people were inspired by Street Fighter as well. I mean it was an originator, who wasn't?


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 6, 2012)

Black-Ice said:


> Exactly this.
> 
> Who and what is 100% original these days?


There's a difference between creating an original game that has some gameplay concepts derived from other genres and pretty much copying the vast majority of a game.



Gahars said:


> His posts read like a pouty, indignant child than a mature, reasoned developer. Also, declaring he already doesn't like a game that (a) isn't finished and (b) he hasn't played doesn't give one the best impression.
> 
> And "vast majority" of concepts? Both are crossover fighters that feature up to 4 players. However, the actual mechanics (the heart of a fighting game) seem pretty different between both games. We don't even know everything about PASBR (what modes will there be? how is single player handled? etc.) anyway; it's a bit premature to write it off.


Kamiya is a game developer who has made several stellar original games and values artistic integrity.  The fact that he doesn't approve of Playstation All Stars (a game that essentially copies Smash Bros) is entirely understandable. Nothing he has tweeted reads like a "pouty child" like you claim.

Both games are 4 player brawlers. They both have similar art styles. All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash. The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more). To deny that is daft.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

soulx said:


> Kayima is a game developer who has made several stellar original IPs and values artistic integrity.  The fact that he doesn't approve of Playstation All Stars (a game that essentially copies Smash Bros) is entirely understandable. Nothing he has tweeted reads like a "pouty child" like you claim.
> 
> Both games are 4 player brawlers. They both have similar art styles. All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash. The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more). To deny that is daft.



It doesn't matter if you're the father of video games or the queen of England, his demeanor of posting was pouty. It wasn't just "I think PASBR looks not too good honestly", it was "IT'S A RIPOFF WAH".

Similar art styles? Are you not the one who cried about the games M-rated characters clashing with the art of the cuter, softer characters? Is that not different art in and of itself.

As for the rest, see my BlazBlue metaphor.


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## Scott-105 (Aug 6, 2012)

The game is quite obviously a "rip off", but I agree with Issac. I do look forward to the game, but you can't deny the fact that it has MANY similarities to Smash Bros.


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## Issac (Aug 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Okay, another parallel: is BlazBlue a rip off of Street Fighter?
> 
> Both are 2D fighters with the same perspective. Each has original casts of characters.
> 
> ...



Just a comment, the fighting is very similar in SSB and PSASBR, it's the not-health-bar that's different. (But still isn't a bad thing in my eyes).

And to the comparison between BlazBlue and Street Fighter, the style and theme is vastly different. But then also I'd like to put this into perspective. Both are very basic forms of fighting games, just as Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters and Marvel vs Capcom are. Just like the old Mario games and the billions of old (2D) platformers are alike, why WW2 themed FPS games are alike... why rally games are alike, etc. etc. etc. Because they are very basic, and there isn't that much to do about them. There are many of those kinds of games from long ago, and it's just accepted nowadays that those games have become genre-defining. a 2D fighter IS a 2D fighter, like BlazBlue, Street Fighter, GuiltyGear, whatever.
How many (cutiefied, to use my own vague term) party brawlers can you name? I can name Powerstone, but it differs some from both SSB and PSASBR...
my view on it.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Kayima is a game developer who has made several stellar original IPs and values artistic integrity.  The fact that he doesn't approve of Playstation All Stars (a game that essentially copies Smash Bros) is entirely understandable. Nothing he has tweeted reads like a "pouty child" like you claim.
> ...


That isn't pouty at all. He is simply stating facts, that it is a ripoff and he doesn't like the game because of that. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't make it a childish statement.

And complaining about the character choices is different from commenting on the art style.


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## Black-Ice (Aug 6, 2012)

I see all of your points.
I just don't understand *why it matters.*
I can guarantee we're making more fuss about this than the people Nintendo hire to do so. Which makes not much sense coz both probably wouldn't get anything from complaining anyway.


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## Gahars (Aug 6, 2012)

soulx said:


> Both games are 4 player brawlers . They both have similar art styles *(...Are you looking at the right games here?)*. All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash *(Super moves are in no way an invention of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the way they are handled is significantly different)*. The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more) *(I hate to break this to you, but the concept of a ring out on a stage is nothing new. It's crazy, I know.)*. To deny that is daft. *(So is crusading against this windmill Don Quixote-style.)*



Since Guild already addressed the first part pretty well, I want to get to this.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

Gahars said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Both games are 4 player brawlers . They both have similar art styles *(...Are you looking at the right games here?)*. All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash *(Super moves are in no way an invention of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the way they are handled is significantly different)*. The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more) *(I hate to break this to you, but the concept of a ring out on a stage is nothing new. It's crazy, I know.)*. To deny that is daft. *(So is crusading against this windmill Don Quixote-style.)*
> ...



Side note, you don't even ring out in this game. You get a super meter, fill it up, and use super attacks to gain points. It's not ringing out.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 6, 2012)

Gahars said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Both games are 4 player brawlers . They both have similar art styles (...Are you looking at the right games here?). All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash (Super moves are in no way an invention of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the way they are handled is significantly different). The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more) (I hate to break this to you, but the concept of a ring out on a stage is nothing new. It's crazy, I know.). To deny that is daft. (So is crusading against this windmill Don Quixote-style.)
> ...


Smash Bros and All Stars both have a cartoon-like aesthetic (even if it doesn't fit well with some All Stars characters). It's evident in how the stage design is and how some characters are stylized.

Supers are obviously inspired by Final Smash. This is immediately apparently when comparing the two in that the animation when starting is even the same and that they both serve similar functions.

Look at the two games, the gameplay is so similar that if you were to add Nintendo characters and tell me that All Stars was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you.


Isaac has already elaborated more in his post before so I'm not going to continue further.

I don't understand why you guys are acting like Sony Defense Force members and arguing that it isn't a ripoff when one glance makes it clear that it is. Being a ripoff doesn't necessarily make it bad.

And to elaborate on what I was saying before, there is _nothing_ wrong with Kamiya's comments. Like I already said, Kamiya dislikes the game because it's a ripoff and he values original games (understandable considering the games he made). Just because you guys don't agree with he says doesn't make it childish or "pouty"


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## Taleweaver (Aug 6, 2012)

@OP:
Of course it's a rip off. So? Using someone else's idea is still the best form of flattery.


What I'm saying is...if someone came up with a brawler where GladOS and Leisure Suit Larry beat the crap out of Jim Raynor and Gordon Freeman in a background of The witcher...I bet everyone would cry bloody murder as well...and then place a pre-order.


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## Gahars (Aug 6, 2012)

@*soulx*

1) Again, are you sure you're looking at the right games here? I mean, if you want just one example, look at your video; the God of War inspired stages look as far removed from cartoony as you can get with bloodthirsty mythological creatures. Smash Bros. creates a more consistent style for the characters (compare Brawl Mario and Galaxy Mario) while PASBR preserves each character's unique style. This isn't hard to see, right? Because I know some great professionals in the field who would be thrilled to help if it is.

2) Again, the supers in both games work like... supers in anything, so of course they are going to serve the same function. Characters power up and then unleash a powerful attack/take on a new form/etc. which boosts their effectiveness in combat in some way, shape or form. That's any super move in a nutshell, not something Brawl invented. (Now, if the exact methods of obtaining the super moves were the same in both games, this argument might hold a little more weight. They aren't, though, so it doesn't.)

3) Well, there's that vision problem again. Like I said, man, medical professionals are the way to go. (On another note,I don't like this sort of argument in general. It's just kind of vague and insubstantial; you could weakly apply it to anything. If you squint really hard, every game will eventually look alike. I don't know It just bugs me, is all.)



> Isaac has already elaborated more in his post before so I'm not going to continue further.



4) I'm pretty sure 5 sentences counts as continuing further. You know, technically.

5) Because maybe it isn't? When it comes to your proof that PASBR has shamelessly stolen from the Smash Bros. series, you seem to be grasping at straws (and not the fun, bendy kind). (In all sincerity, a good chunk of this conflict seems to be based around conflicting views on what constitutes a rip-off, what sort of stigma is attached, etc. For my part, a rip-off is something that shamelessly and desperately takes from others without offering anything new in return. It's a harsh accusation, and one I think should save until, bar certain exceptions, the item in question is completed and released. What did you have in mind?)

6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.


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## ouch123 (Aug 6, 2012)

Gahars said:


> 6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.


Funnily enough, Kamiya even criticized someone else for that very thing. Actually, there are enough inconsistencies with Kamiya's tweets that it almost seems as if he's trolling, but I dunno...
It seems like he also managed to not notice that Cartoon Network already made a SSB clone, and it was probably a lot more of a rip-off than this new game is going to be.



Guild McCommunist said:


> It's a nice statement. They like the genre, they know they're similar, but it's also their own creation. He's not Gameloft. He's not Zynga. He's taking an idea and making it his own. It's called "inspiration".


Van Gogh once said "Good artists copy, great artists steal." What he meant by this was that those that achieve greatness don't merely imitate others - they take what others have made and make it their own, thereby creating something unique and new from what currently exists. I don't see a problem with this new game myself; I think few people can say that they don't stand upon the shoulders of giants.


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## DiscostewSM (Aug 6, 2012)

My only concern is if this turns successful, will they attempt to do it again?


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## Evilengine (Aug 6, 2012)

The world needs Smash Brothers Versus Playstation All-Stars(Versus Capcom Versus Marvel Versus DC Versus Mugen)! Multiplatform, Nintend oFighters only available on WiiU and Sony Fighter only on PS3/Vita/PS4 or so.


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## Qtis (Aug 6, 2012)

This is almost as smart as fighting over wether Apple owns a certain design type in general (not just the design of the iPhone, but all phones with touch screens and similar setup). As many have said, PASBR is inspired heavily by SSB. There is no denying it, why even bother? It's a genre we are talking about here. Just like FPS games are very heavily affected by each other and "all fighting games are the same" (which is not true of course).

SSB may have been original in the beginning, but nowadays it can be "defined" as a new genre in gaming just like FPS, RPG, etc. It's a 4 player fighting game. If you don't like the idea that someone else is making a similar type of game and maybe even making it in a new, possibly better way, don't buy it. That'll show developers that it's not worth investing in the games and it'll die out.


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## Black-Ice (Aug 6, 2012)

This argument in a nutshell:
OMG BATTLEFIELD USES GUNS!!! ;O; ITS A COD RIP OFF ;O;
NO BATTLEFIELD USES DIFFERENT GUNS!!
OMG NOOOO COD USED GUNS FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE SUX ;O;
NO BATTLEFIELD USE DIFFERENT MAPS
OMG COD MADE MAPS WHERE YOU HAVE BUSHES FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS COPYING ;O;O;O.;O;


look at yourselves.


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## Hadrian (Aug 6, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> My only concern is if this turns successful, will they attempt to do it again?


Of course but being Sony the sequels might be more frequent or they might do some kinda of "Vs" release which is how they should be, these kind of games are best when there is only one for each gen. One of the reasons to why I hope the Wii U & 3DS Smash Bros titles are totally different to each other.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > My only concern is if this turns successful, will they attempt to do it again?
> ...



Provided this is successful, a sequel will probably be PS4/Vita and you'll see some DLC support for the current game for some time (costumes, stages, characters, etc).


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

ouch123 said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > 6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.
> ...



There was also a TMNT SSB "clone" and I thought the Wii-exclusive multiplayer for Force Unleashed 2 was a bit like SSB (correct me if I'm wrong).

I actually remember people not hating on the Cartoon Network one when it was coming out because they were like "Hey, it might be SSB on the 3DS!" People didn't even hate on Jump! Super/Ultimate Stars. So we'll pass those up for hate but if Sony does one? They're fucking monsters!

EDIT: Actually, can someone explain to me why they fucking love Jump! Ultimate Stars enough to the point where it got a rather complete fan translation but get so goddamn pissed over this game? And don't try to tell me JUS was all that different from SSB.


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## The Catboy (Aug 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ouch123 said:
> 
> 
> > Gahars said:
> ...


Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
You do know you are on a Nintendo based website right? Why are you so shocked and horrified to find out there are Nintendo fans here? Why are you so persistent about making everyone see things your way?
To answer your question, yes there is bias towards Nintendo products on this site, no it will not change, why? Because this is Nintendo based site.
Please Guild, not every thread needs to go down like this.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
> You do know you are on a Nintendo based website right? Why are you so shocked and horrified to find out there are Nintendo fans here? Why are you so persistent about making everyone see things your way?
> To answer your question, yes there is bias towards Nintendo products on this site, no it will not change, why? Because this is Nintendo based site.
> Please Guild, not every thread needs to go down like this.



I'm not even complaining, I'm pointing out clear logic holes here.


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## Paarish (Aug 6, 2012)

I think JUS did enough changes to make it not a 100% clone of SSB

And I'm sure PAS will do the same as well.

I'd rather play the game myself and see the similarities/differences with my own two eyes.

No point ripping on it because it LOOKS the same.


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## The Catboy (Aug 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
> ...


No Guild you are complaining, same goes to everyone at this point.
There is no need for every single one of these threads to end up a dick wagging contest.
To be fair, even I have said stupid things on these thread, which I would like to apologize for some of the things I said. A lot of them were wrong and I didn't mean for them to come out as bad as they did. Also I would like to apologize to you as well Guild, I didn't mean to target it you on this. It just happened to end up like that.
But my point being these threads are going going in circles at this point of the same argument over and over again. So please enough of the same shit. How about we just talk about the game already without comparing it to this game or that game.


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## Hells Malice (Aug 6, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > The Catboy said:
> ...



This entire thread is centered around whether this game is a SSB clone or not. (and similar branching topics such as, why were other more blatant clones not whined about).
Clearly pointed out by the OP containing quotes from some rando dude bashing Playstation all-stars pointlessly.

If you don't want to argue about the game being similar to this, or that, or it not being similar, or anything like that...you're in the wrong thread bro.

Guild complains a lot but he's perfectly in the green as far as this thread is concerned. All hes done so far is be right.


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## The Catboy (Aug 6, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> This entire thread is centered around whether this game is a SSB clone or not. (and similar branching topics such as, why were other more blatant clones not whined about).
> Clearly pointed out by the OP containing quotes from some rando dude bashing Playstation all-stars pointlessly.
> 
> If you don't want to argue about the game being similar to this, or that, or it not being similar, or anything like that...you're in the wrong thread bro.
> ...


I always miss the ball on these threads.
I'm going to go over there.


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## Issac (Aug 6, 2012)

Yeah! I mean, I can hardly see the difference between Super Smash Bros. and Jump Ultimate Stars... They look exactly the same and really use similar techniques and features. You know, leveling up characters to stronger types by collecting comic strips, just like in SSB! And also, how it's made for that rivalling console to nintendo.. that DS console..

On a side note: It's fun to see how the first smash bros. game is called "_Nintendo All Star! Dairantō Smash Brothers" _In Japan. And again, no critique in this. It is a nintedo all-star game, and PSASBR is a sony all-star game (even though it doesn't only use sony exclusive characters, but whatever, the more the merrier)


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## BORTZ (Aug 6, 2012)

'i hope it does well. Im actually really surprised that there havent been any other SSB "rip offs".
And whats so bad about rip offs? We got Crash Team Racing out of a Rip off.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 6, 2012)

The thing I don't get is everyone is trying to judge this game as a rip off and scream and cry because they don't like it, but they've _never even played it_. Oh sure, they've got those videos. They've got those screenshots. But it's like...trying to judge the flavor of a new ice cream by looking at it and seeing others eat it. Man, that ice cream looks kinda like chocolate so I bet it tastes just like that. Everyone else is trying it and they're like "hey man, this shit ain't chocolate even though it kinda looks like it" and you still scream and cry "NO NO BUT IT IS CUZ THEY LOOK SO MUCH A LIKE!!" Then you try it and it tastes like fucking strawberry. The thing is we can't try the game because it's _not even released._

I'm starving.


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## mad_gamer_jad (Aug 6, 2012)

On a slightly unrelated note, I wonder what Sakurai has to say about PS All stars.
If I remember correctly he likes the uncharted series so I'm guessing he'd like seeing Nathan Drake in a smash like game.


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## DrOctapu (Aug 6, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> 'i hope it does well. Im actually really surprised that there havent been any other SSB "rip offs".
> And whats so bad about rip offs? We got Crash Team Racing out of a Rip off.


There was that cartoon network one that ended up sucking ass.

I'm actually kind of excited though. If it's done well it could be really fun.


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## Issac (Aug 6, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> The thing I don't get is everyone is trying to judge this game as a rip off and scream and cry because they don't like it, but they've _never even played it_. Oh sure, they've got those videos. They've got those screenshots. But it's like...trying to judge the flavor of a new ice cream by looking at it and seeing others eat it. Man, that ice cream looks kinda like chocolate so I bet it tastes just like that. Everyone else is trying it and they're like "hey man, this shit ain't chocolate even though it kinda looks like it" and you still scream and cry "NO NO BUT IT IS CUZ THEY LOOK SO MUCH A LIKE!!" Then you try it and it tastes like fucking strawberry. The thing is we can't try the game because it's _not even released._
> 
> I'm starving.



I for one think that it looks awesome, but still looks like a ripoff. I haven't said it's bad or that it will be bad. I'd rather use your analogy like this:
(now there may be factual errors, but I hope you get the point i'm trying to make) Ben and Jerrys makes cookie dough ice cream, and it has become really popular. Now other ice cream makers also has that flavour which is "kind of unique" yet popular. No, Ben and Jerrys didn't invent ice cream, (nintendo didn't invent fighting games), but they did invent (or atleast make it popular) the cooke dough flavour (like ninty (hal) did the smash bros-y brawler). And now another company makse the same flavour. It's not a complete copy, but it's more or less the same.

How I see this whole debate on the other hand, using your analogy again, is:
"Fuck yeah this brown strawberry ice cream doesn't look at ALL like chocolate!!!!"
"both are brown and look the same"
"Pff! What?!?!? Dirt is also brown!?!? So why not cry that earth is brown??!? does it taste like chocolate too??!?!? chocolate ice cream is a rip off of earth, because earth is brown!!!"

yeah.


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## DiscostewSM (Aug 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ouch123 said:
> 
> 
> > Gahars said:
> ...



If an Uncharted clone in this same nature with having different characters and slightly different mechanics were made on a Nintendo or Microsoft system, wouldn't the fans of that original game be even a little upset? It's one of those scenarios where something unique to a specific territory (in this case, Nintendo territory) is now being plagiarized into territory outside of its origin. The Wii and 3DS "clones" were still within Nintendo territory, which is why I think people weren't upset about those. This is a direct competitor within the game industry making a clone of their rival's game, whether with good intentions or not. I don't think the hate is directed at the game itself, but at Sony because of their "tactics" involving their competitors in the past.


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## VampireLordAlucard (Aug 6, 2012)

Oh come on, _everybody_ wanted a Playstation branded Smash Bros game.

I think everybody's secretly upset by how strange it looks. What do you guys think about the stages representing two games each? Like the God of War / Patapon level? Or how you win the match?


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## Issac (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm highly positive to the two game representing each stage thing! Not too sure what I feel about the "how to win" mechanics. I'd have to try it out first, but reading the details doesn't turn me on. Hopefully there will be different modes, like SSB, where there can be HP based fights as well, etc. When I think of it, a "most damage dealt, no matter which character"-mode would be fun! That's like how it is now, but without the super move gauge...


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## Black-Ice (Aug 6, 2012)

VampireLordAlucard said:


> Oh come on, _everybody_ wanted a Playstation branded Smash Bros game.


Clearly not everybody.
Too much butthurt in this thread for that statement to be valid.


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## broitsak (Aug 6, 2012)

Black-Ice said:


> VampireLordAlucard said:
> 
> 
> > Oh come on, _everybody_ wanted a Playstation branded Smash Bros game.
> ...


I wouldnt have minded a  super smash bros for playstation..


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## 10_0ARMY (Aug 7, 2012)

It all depends on execution. Smash Bros is so successful because it was executed well by Nintendo. Even though this game is clearly a "rip-off", if Sony builds it right, then it'll be successful. Otherwise, it will flop like poorly made games do.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 7, 2012)

Gahars said:


> @soulx1) Again, are you sure you're looking at the right games here? I mean, if you want just one example, look at your video; the God of War inspired stages look as far removed from cartoony as you can get with bloodthirsty mythological creatures. Smash Bros. creates a more consistent style for the characters (compare Brawl Mario and Galaxy Mario) while PASBR preserves each character's unique style. This isn't hard to see, right? Because I know some great professionals in the field who would be thrilled to help if it is.


Playstation All Stars has a relatively colourful aesthetic. While the characters have remained rather unchanged, the stages do have this water-colour-esque look to them similar to stages in Smash Bros Brawl. Once again, this isn't really a point to be argued considering one look at the stages will tell you this.



Gahars said:


> 2) Again, the supers in both games work like... supers in anything, so of course they are going to serve the same function. Characters power up and then unleash a powerful attack/take on a new form/etc. which boosts their effectiveness in combat in some way, shape or form. That's any super move in a nutshell, not something Brawl invented. (Now, if the exact methods of obtaining the super moves were the same in both games, this argument might hold a little more weight. They aren't, though, so it doesn't.)


Supers are the most powerful individual move you can get that will almost guarantee an opponent knockout. Just like the Final Smash in Smash Brothers. They simply changed the method of obtaining one but it's essentially the same thing.



Gahars said:


> 3) Well, there's that vision problem again. Like I said, man, medical professionals are the way to go. (On another note,I don't like this sort of argument in general. It's just kind of vague and insubstantial; you could weakly apply it to anything. If you squint really hard, every game will eventually look alike. I don't know It just bugs me, is all.)





Spoiler



[titlelaystation All Stars]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









Spoiler: Smash Bros Brawl










Looks pretty similar to me. I don't know, I guess not everyone has perfect vision.  



Gahars said:


> I'm pretty sure 5 sentences counts as continuing further. You know, technically.


.
Elaborating on the point that it's a ripoff. Thought I  made that pretty clear.



Gahars said:


> 5) Because maybe it isn't? When it comes to your proof that PASBR has shamelessly stolen from the Smash Bros. series, you seem to be grasping at straws (and not the fun, bendy kind). (In all sincerity, a good chunk of this conflict seems to be based around conflicting views on what constitutes a rip-off, what sort of stigma is attached, etc. For my part, a rip-off is something that shamelessly and desperately takes from others without offering anything new in return. It's a harsh accusation, and one I think should save until, bar certain exceptions, the item in question is completed and released. What did you have in mind?)


From a conceptual standpoint, the game is a ripoff. It's a four-player 3D mascot party brawler. The few changes they have made don't change that fact and it seems you don't realize that.

When I say it is a ripoff, I don't mean that with negative connotations. Being a rip-off doesn't mean that the game is bad, it simply means that they clearly copied Smash Bros.



Gahars said:


> 6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.


Kamiya dislikes the game because of the fact that it's a ripoff. He values creative integrity and originality so it is no surprise that he isn't fond of the game.

When the game goes against his core values, there is no need to play the game to make judgment. Once again, there is nothing wrong with his comments.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> *snip*



Super Smash Bros. invented supers? It's not like Street Fighter did that concept first. The idea of having a "super attack" in fighting games has been around for a long time. However in here it's a lot different. Unlike Smash Bros., whereas a super attack as seen as an all-powerful attack, here it's more integrated into the gameplay. You need to use supers to score while in SSB you'll be using your standard selection of attacks for the majority of your KOs. Smash Attacks are uncommon at most and most people even exclude them.

Also, having a similar UI constitutes a rip off? Someone call every fighting game in existence, they need to change their user interfaces or they'll be bashed to shit!

Why do we consider this a rip off from SSB but not BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear, and any other array of 2D fighters from Street Fighter? I mean they have a similar perspective and similar UI's, by the definitions here that's clearly a rip off.


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## Smuff (Aug 7, 2012)

Lest we forget, both games are a clear rip off of the awesome "Fighters Megamix" on Sega Saturn.

/Fossil gamers ftw

All joking aside, orirginality has gone out the window in this generation of gaming - for shame!


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## gamefan5 (Aug 7, 2012)

*eats Popcorn

I mostly agree with everything Gahars said from my POV. I think he made the judgement too early. It may have been based from the concept of SBB but who knows, it may be different enough from the game when we'll get a chance to play it. I, for one, am willing to take a shot at it.

From all we know so far, there is no ring out. The method of KOing is completely different.
You must keep raking combos to build your power meter up and then use one of 3 levels of supers to KO an opponent. 

Hmm, sounds interesting. I wouldn't label it as a rip-off just yet.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 7, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> From all we know so far, there is no ring out. The method of KOing is completely different.
> You must keep raking combos to build your power meter up and then use one of 3 levels of supers to KO an opponent.



It also has combos, something that's a pretty drastic difference from SSB.

Plus so far I haven't seen any items in the game, unlike SSB which has had them since the beginning.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Super Smash Bros. invented supers? It's not like Street Fighter did that concept first. The idea of having a &quot;super attack&quot; in fighting games has been around for a long time. However in here it's a lot different. Unlike Smash Bros., whereas a super attack as seen as an all-powerful attack, here it's more integrated into the gameplay. You need to use supers to score while in SSB you'll be using your standard selection of attacks for the majority of your KOs. Smash Attacks are uncommon at most and most people even exclude them.
> 
> Also, having a similar UI constitutes a rip off? Someone call every fighting game in existence, they need to change their user interfaces or they'll be bashed to shit!
> 
> Why do we consider this a rip off from SSB but not BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear, and any other array of 2D fighters from Street Fighter? I mean they have a similar perspective and similar UI's, by the definitions here that's clearly a rip off.


Considering you fill up your meter for the sole purpose of unlocking an super with it being the only way to kill someone, it clearly is the _all-powerful_ attack. I've played Brawl extensively and Smash Attacks are not "uncommon at most". They come quite often and are used to help easily kill opponents.

Street Fighter-style games are a genre. Smash Bros is not. That's the difference.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Super Smash Bros. invented supers? It's not like Street Fighter did that concept first. The idea of having a &quot;super attack&quot; in fighting games has been around for a long time. However in here it's a lot different. Unlike Smash Bros., whereas a super attack as seen as an all-powerful attack, here it's more integrated into the gameplay. You need to use supers to score while in SSB you'll be using your standard selection of attacks for the majority of your KOs. Smash Attacks are uncommon at most and most people even exclude them.
> ...



I've played Brawl extensively as well and they're not nearly as common as what is being presented here. They come up now and then but it's not even a core mechanic of the game. Most people actually complain that Final Smashes are too overpowered and turn them off.

Also, genre doesn't matter, you're calling it a rip off when plenty of other games that do the same thing as PASBR get a pass.

The game does have significant differences from SSB, face it.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I've played Brawl extensively as well and they're not nearly as common as what is being presented here. They come up now and then but it's not even a core mechanic of the game. Most people actually complain that Final Smashes are too overpowered and turn them off.
> 
> Also, genre doesn't matter, you're calling it a rip off when plenty of other games that do the same thing as PASBR get a pass.
> 
> The game does have significant differences from SSB, face it.


They are pretty common and the majority of the knock-outs in a match were done while someone has the Final Smash. And the only people who actually disable the Final Smash because it's _"overpowered"_ are competitive players. Still doesn't disprove my point, anyways.


Genre clearly fucking matters. Is Rayman Origins a copy of New Super Mario Bros? Is Final Fantasy X a copy of Tales of the Abyss? No? But they're both platformers and RPGs, right?

Smash Bros is a unique style of game that isn't a genre. From a conceptual standpoint, Playstation All Stars is clearly copying the 4-player mascot brawler idea. Yes, it has differences but that doesn't change the fact that it's a rip-off.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I've played Brawl extensively as well and they're not nearly as common as what is being presented here. They come up now and then but it's not even a core mechanic of the game. Most people actually complain that Final Smashes are too overpowered and turn them off.
> ...



You must be playing with a really high item spawn rate or with some really bad people if the majority of KOs are from Smash Balls. Even then, it's different in PASBR. Power attacks are the only way to score points here. There's multiple ways to score in SSB.

These games are in the same genre. Don't try to say that SSB is not a genre-classifiable game. It's a fighter or a brawler, choose your pick. God forbid anything tries to take some pointers from it it's a "rip off".

How come you aren't so pissy over Jump! Ultimate Stars by the way?

4 player fighters aren't new. Franchise crossover fighting isn't new.


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## KingVamp (Aug 7, 2012)

At this point, you guys are just going in circles. An agreement isn't going to happen.




I think Guild is being too giving and Soulx is being too harsh.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> You must be playing with a really high item spawn rate or with some really bad people if the majority of KOs are from Smash Balls. Even then, it's different in PASBR. Power attacks are the only way to score points here. There's multiple ways to score in SSB.
> 
> These games are in the same genre. Don't try to say that SSB is not a genre-classifiable game. It's a fighter or a brawler, choose your pick. God forbid anything tries to take some pointers from it it's a &quot;rip off&quot;.
> 
> ...


Yes? I already said that supers are the only way to score in All Stars making it the _all-powerful_ attack.

Smash Bros can't exactly be classified as a genre. 4-players mascot-fighting game with items and stages based on various game series. I would say that it's pretty unique.

Jump! Ultimate Stars is unique enough that it can't be classified solely as a Smash clone. For one, the visual style is different considering it's 2D and uses sprites with anime-licensed characters. 

Not to mention that the gameplay is different. Considering you keep bringing up the game, I would think that you should know that the gameplay is based off a panel system with you adding different 'komas' with different types (Battle, Support, Help). There also is the addition of a 'nature' aspect in which certain battle komas beat others. The gameplay is more unlike Smash Bros than All Stars gameplay.

4-player mascot fighters with items like Smash Bros are unique and are rarely done. That's what makes All Stars a ripoff. I don't even know why you're arguing something so obvious. _Rip-off_ doesn't mean the game is bad, it just means that it copies Smash Bros goddamnit.


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## Gahars (Aug 7, 2012)

@*soulx*

1) PSBAR doesn't have one consistent aesthetic when it comes to the stages. They all look strikingly different based on the games they're inspired from (You're telling me that God of War has a "water-colour-esque" look to them? Seriously?). A game with a colorful aesthetic is represented by a stage with a colorful aesthetic, while a game with a darker, grimmer aesthetic is represented by (surprise, surprise!) a stage with a darker, grimmer aesthetic. What are you missing here?

I was kidding before, but I seriously have to wonder if you're looking at the right game here. I'm kind of starting to doubt you watched the video you posted before (let alone any videos of the game at all).

2) Because that's how super moves work! Come on, this is not a new mechanic. Brawl in no way, shape, or form invented them (unless you're somehow trying to argue that the Street Fighter franchise stole the idea retroactively). And as Guild mentions, both games handle them very differently. Come on, man, this isn't difficult.

3) Guild pretty much hit the nail on the head on this part. Beyond that, it's not even a straight up copy. Sure, there's a timer on screen, but it's not like Nintendo pioneered the concept of showing players how much time is left in a match. The character icons are on the bottom, but that's a sensible spot to place them; having the little markers is also just common sense (Unless you'd rather players not know which character they're controlling at all). The Smash Bros. icons show players how much damage they've taken while PSBAR's (if I'm remembering this correctly) only acts as a super meter.

Taking inspiration from a successful UI and developing it down a different path to deliver something different? Total thievery, obviously.

4) No, _really_?

5) The problem is (I'd argue), the term rip-off comes loaded with negative connotations no matter what the intention is of the speaker. Anyway, there's a huge difference between copying and taking inspiration.

Is this game influenced by the Smash Bros. series? Obviously, and no one here has denied that. From everything we've been shown, though, the game seems to be diverging enough that it isn't a complete copy. The developers have made it clear that they're trying to bring something new to the formula.

Will it work out? The game isn't in our hands yet, so we can't really say. Maybe the final product will be radically different from the Smash Bros. franchise; maybe the previews and interviews we've seen so far have just been misleading and this doesn't set itself apart in any meaningful way. We don't know, and we won't know for at least several months. I'm sorry, Soulx, but your attempts at precognition leave a lot to be desired; we're all just going to have to be patient and wait before we can judge it for sure.

6) Ah yes, because harshly judging an unreleased game he has yet to play, deriding it as a complete rip-off, and flippantly whining about it over Twitter is a clear display of his dedication to integrity.



> When the game goes against his core values, there is no need to play the game to make judgment. Once again, there is nothing wrong with his comments.



I kind of miss Prowler's habit of saving choice quotes, because this one is golden. I'll write it down somewhere just so I don't forget it!


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## DS1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Apparently I forgot to mention this, but the Super Move = Win Game mechanic was started with an old-school DBZ game that I never played (though my friend was always talking about), and then repeated with the Groove Adventure Rave games for GBA (and surprise, nobody said, OMG CLONE OF DBZ GAME!!!), probably because people were too busy trying to call Rave a clone of One Piece, hahaha.

Smash Brother's system _is _unique in that damage taken = heavier physics, and the object is to smack people off the stage so that they can't float back. This is dissimilar to ringouts and pretty much any pre-Smash game I've ever played. Being that Sony is not using this system (to the best of my knowledge), I see no reason to use it in an argument.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> *For one, the visual style is different considering it's 2D and uses sprites with anime-licensed characters.*


I've read the rest of your thread. But the visual of a game doesn't make a game a rip-off or not. It's the gameplay mechanics.

SSB doesn't make a genre imo, it belongs to one. No matter how different it is in terms of gameplay mechanics, it still stays true to the fighting genre.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 7, 2012)

Gahars said:


> @*soulx*
> 
> 1) PSBAR doesn't have one consistent aesthetic when it comes to the stages. They all look strikingly different based on the games they're inspired from (You're telling me that God of War has a &quot;water-colour-esque&quot; look to them? Seriously?). A game with a colorful aesthetic is represented by a stage with a colorful aesthetic, while a game with a darker, grimmer aesthetic is represented by (surprise, surprise!) a stage with a darker, grimmer aesthetic. What are you missing here?
> 
> I was kidding before, but I seriously have to wonder if you're looking at the right game here. I'm kind of starting to doubt you watched the video you posted before (let alone any videos of the game at all).



Look at the God of War stage.






I see purple trees in the back, a glow effect on the characters and cute little creatures in the background (don't know the game series so I can't name them). While this is all subjective, I feel that this gives it a more cheerful aesthetic. It's certainly not gritty or dark.



Gahars said:


> 3) Guild pretty much hit the nail on the head on this part. Beyond that, it's not even a straight up copy. Sure, there's a timer on screen, but it's not like Nintendo pioneered the concept of showing players how much time is left in a match. The character icons are on the bottom, but that's a sensible spot to place them; having the little markers is also just common sense (Unless you'd rather players not know which character they're controlling at all). The Smash Bros. icons show players how much damage they've taken while PSBAR's (if I'm remembering this correctly) only acts as a super meter.
> 
> Taking inspiration from a successful UI and developing it down a different path to deliver something different? Total thievery, obviously.


The UI elements being similar are just to build on my point of the games having a similar look which you argued against. I'm not criticizing them for that. 



Gahars said:


> 5) The problem is (I'd argue), the term rip-off comes loaded with negative connotations no matter what the intention is of the speaker. Anyway, there's a huge difference between copying and taking inspiration.
> 
> Is this game influenced by the Smash Bros. series? Obviously, and no one here has denied that. From everything we've been shown, though, the game seems to be diverging enough that it isn't a complete copy. The developers have made it clear that they're trying to bring something new to the formula.
> 
> Will it work out? The game isn't in our hands yet, so we can't really say. Maybe the final product will be radically different from the Smash Bros. franchise; maybe the previews and interviews we've seen so far have just been misleading and this doesn't set itself apart in any meaningful way. We don't know, and we won't know for at least several months. I'm sorry, Soulx, but your attempts at precognition leave a lot to be desired; we're all just going to have to be patient and wait before we can judge it for sure.


Copying and taking inspiration? Two different ways of saying the same damn thing except that one seems nicer.

The product is nearing the beta stages. At that point, there will be no drastic changes but rather bug fixes and other minor improvements since they are nearing release. It isn't going to be radically different from what we have already seen.

The game at its core copies Smash Bros with the 4-player mascot brawler idea. The other things I'm mentioning (visual style, UI elements, etc.) are just the icing on the cake.



Gahars said:


> 6) Ah yes, because harshly judging an unreleased game he has yet to play, deriding it as a complete rip-off, and flippantly whining about it over Twitter is a clear display of his dedication to integrity.


Stating "it's a ripoff" on Twitter is _harshly judging_, "_whining_", and _deriding it_. God, talk about an exaggeration. All he said was that he didn't like the game because he thinks it's a rip-off. For the thousandth time, there is nothing wrong with that.


----


gamefan5 said:


> I've read the rest of your thread. But the visual of a game doesn't make a game a rip-off or not. It's the gameplay mechanics.
> 
> SSB doesn't make a genre imo, it belongs to one. No matter how different it is in terms of gameplay mechanics, it still stays true to the fighting genre.


Visuals are one aspect in whether a game is a ripoff or not but no, it isn't the only thing.

It's different enough that it can't be lumped into the general fighting game genre (Street Fighter-style).


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## gamefan5 (Aug 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> It's different enough that it can't be lumped into the *general fighting game genre* (Street Fighter-style).


I know that but it's certainly a Fighting game.
As for visuals, lots of games can be classified as the same visuals for JUMP. So I wouldn't put it as a proof for that. No matter how similar it is.
A rip-off can have a different kind of visuals but it can be labeled as a copy of the game if it has the same gameplay mechanics.

Hell, Zenonia has a very similar graphic style to the Super Nintendo 2D games such as Final fantasy and Zelda. And yet it isn't a rip-off due to it's gameplay mechanics, even if there are some similarities.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 7, 2012)

@soulx please use spoilers on the images.

Also, do realize that stages transition in the game. It's transitioning from the God of War to Patapon stage. From someone "grim", as Gahars described it, to something "watercolor-esque", as you described it. That alone is a different art style than SSB. Hell the whole stage transitioning mechanic sets apart the art pretty well. When a game's stage can go from something dark like God of War to something picturesque like Patapon, that's a different aesthetic. It clashes multiple styles of art to make something new.

The UI is just a fucking retarded point, I'm sorry. If we criticized games for having similar UIs then every UI would look absolutely retarded. If it ain't broke, don't change it. What would you do with the UI? Put it at the top for no reason at all? Put it above our characters to have this obnoxious, hard to follow meter? It shows the character you're playing with and their super bar. That's what it needs. It doesn't even have an icon for the franchise they're from behind them, something that's been notable in the SSB UI since its inception.

Um, his demeanor is really complaining, bitching, and whining. There's stating something as a professional opinion and being whiny about it. He was being whiny. Image we were having a normal conversation in real life using these words. Would I be saying his statement in a professional tone of voice or just shouting about it?

If we're harshly judging games without playing them...

Kid Icarus: Uprising looks like an obnoxious game with an annoying protagonist and bland art.

Pikmin 3 looks just as boring as the other Pikmin games.

Resident Evil: Revelations still looks like a bland portable Resident Evil with bad controls and inferior graphics to the VITA MASTER RACE.

Now you'll probably want to defend all these but these games go against my core values so I don't need to play the game to judge it.

Also if your core values are fucking video games then I suggest you shoot yourself directly in the face with a hand cannon.


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## Gahars (Aug 7, 2012)

@*soulx*

1) Okay

That's Patapon blending into background, so of course that looks exactly like Patapon. The core of the stage, taken from/inspired by God of War(the giant, the area the characters are fighting on), remains aesthetically consistent. Troll baiting or not, that's some desperate straw grasping.

2) 





> Look at the two games, the gameplay is so similar that if you were to add Nintendo characters and tell me that All Stars was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you.



Gameplay does not equal UI.

3) And no, no they definitely are not. Copying is, well, just copying. Taking inspiration is using something as a starting point and moving on from there.  It's a pretty big difference; to use just one example, it's the difference between a good remake, and a boring retread.

And arguing that we can judge unreleased, unfinished games (without so much as a public demo yet)? Are you kidding me?

4) We've been over this; continuing to defend his immature outbursts isn't going to retroactively them any better.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 7, 2012)

Gahars said:


> snip


Sometimes I wish I could argue as well as you do. XD


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> @soulx please use spoilers on the images.
> 
> Also, do realize that stages transition in the game. It's transitioning from the God of War to Patapon stage. From someone "grim", as Gahars described it, to something "watercolor-esque", as you described it. That alone is a different art style than SSB. Hell the whole stage transitioning mechanic sets apart the art pretty well. When a game's stage can go from something dark like God of War to something picturesque like Patapon, that's a different aesthetic. It clashes multiple styles of art to make something new.
> 
> ...


I'm looking at this stage right here (one of the supposed _gritty_ ones) and guess what, that doesn't look very dark to me.






Where you see a grim stage, I see colourful lighting and a soft blur effect (don't know how else to explain it) on the characters. I looked at a number of other stages in the game and what do you know, they all have a relatively _cheerful_ visual aesthetic to them.

The UI is simply another aspect on how the games _look_ similar. I argued that if you replaced the characters with Nintendo characters and showed me All Stars footage claiming it was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you. I'm not saying they should change it, it's just another reason as to why the games look similar.


Kamiya's demeanour isn't any of the things you've mentioned. I don't know how you get _"bitching, whining and complaining"_ from "It's a rip-off". And guess what, it's Twitter. He can only elaborate so much without breaking the word limit. I said it a bunch of times and I'll say it again, there isn't anything wrong with what he said.



Guild McCommunist said:


> If we're harshly judging games without playing them...
> 
> Kid Icarus: Uprising looks like an obnoxious game with an annoying protagonist and bland art.
> 
> ...


Guild, this tells me nothing except that you're a fucking idiot (assuming that you actually hold these opinions).

When I say core values, I'm referring to his video-game development philosophy, not his view on life and shit. You're just referring to some of your dumb opinions.



Gahars said:


> @*soulx*
> 
> 1) Okay
> 
> ...


The stage does not look grim or dark but I went over that in my response to Guild.


And I was referring to the game in general, not gameplay (error on my part). My point still stands.


In this case, they seem to be the same. Yes, the creators were clearly inspired enough by Smash Bros. to make a game similar enough featuring Sony characters. They also copied the general idea of the game (4 player mascot brawler with items like I said) and various other aspects while adding _some_ new things.

You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons. Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an _immature_ comment.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

soulx said:


> You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons.* Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an immature comment.*


But the fact that he said it *without even trying the game *IS!!! That's what Gahars is trying to SAY! 
Looking at it without even get the feel out of said game is not enough.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 8, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons.* Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an immature comment.*
> ...


Why don't you look through my previous posts? I already went over that.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

soulx said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...


I did dude. If you're talking about graphics and the UI and everything like that, than no it's still not enough.
Similarity is there. But it's no copying whatsoever. It's taking a few elements from another game and use it to make something different out of it.
Plenty of games have done that.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 8, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> I did dude. If you're talking about graphics and the UI and everything like that, than no it's still not enough.
> Similarity is there. But it's no copying whatsoever. It's taking a few elements from another game and use it to make something different out of it.
> Plenty of games have done that.


gamefan5, I'm arguing with enough people as it is. I have no desire to argue with you too. Why don't you sit down and let the big boys talk?



I already went over how it was copying (given that Smash Bros is a four-player mascot brawler with items) and I'm not going to elaborate further to you.


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## Alex221 (Aug 8, 2012)

Fucking asians think they own the place... Hey hideki kamiya aren't you a fucking ripoff of other asians??? because you all look the fucking same to me
Back on topic:

If playstation all stars is a ripoff of brawl then call of duty is a ripoff of battlefield...


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

soulx said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > I did dude. If you're talking about graphics and the UI and everything like that, than no it's still not enough.
> ...


Excuse me? Disrespectful are we?
I remember having a say in this forum too. What I say still stands.
If you don't like it, then just plain leave. Because so far, you're not doing a very good job at convincing others.

There isn't any amount of *similarities *that we'll make me say that it's a rip-off unless from experience or many reviews. Not because someone doesn't like like it by saying it and just by looking at some info of the game.

That's pretty much why I, myself, think that it was immature from writing that post. He even admitted that he thinks it's not very good when he didn't even play it. Clearly he said that from his tastes.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 8, 2012)

Alex221 said:


> Fucking asians think they own the place... Hey hideki kamiya aren't you a fucking ripoff of other asians??? because you all look the fucking same to me








You've branched out into a new level of stupidity.


@[member='gamefan5']: Like I said, I have no desire to argue with you now. Read my previous posts if you want a response to your arguments.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

soulx said:


> Alex221 said:
> 
> 
> > Fucking asians think they own the place... Hey hideki kamiya aren't you a fucking ripoff of other asians??? because you all look the fucking same to me
> ...


And I did a response to it, if you don't get it, that's your problem.
Because so far, the disscussion isn't going forward. You're all walking in circles.


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## Gahars (Aug 8, 2012)

@*soulx*

There's an eye doctor option right there. I know the text can be a bit hard to read, but zooming in should help you make what you're seeing.

You seem to be reaching the point in an argument where the losing side sticks their fingers in their ears, ignores inconvenient points and facts, and shouts "nuh-uh!" until everyone else shuts up.

2) Though we've already went over the first part, this excuse about the 140 word limit bugs. A) Rephrasing his comments into something acceptable and respectable would have been easily doable within that limit, and B) Even if it wasn't, it's not like he couldn't just extend the message into another tweet.

3) *Whoosh*

4) Just repeating your points doesn't make them suddenly valid. See the "sticking fingers into ears" comment above.




soulx said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...



Extremely, extremely poorly.




soulx said:


> gamefan5, I'm arguing with enough people as it is. I have no desire to argue with you too. Why don't you sit down and let the big boys talk?



Geez, that post went from 0 to asshole in seconds. Bravo?


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

Gahars said:


> @*soulx*
> 
> There's an eye doctor option right there. I know the text can be a bit hard to read, but zooming in should help you make what you're seeing.
> 
> ...


Thank you for defending me.


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## AceWarhead (Aug 8, 2012)

Not cool how you're acting soulx. Don't belittle people like that.
And about the whole rip-off thing... nothing is truly original these days. Something always has to build off of something else. Just look at CoD and Battlefield. Prime example. They both borrow some elements from each other and some other titles.
So, yes, it copies some stuff, but PS's Battle Royale is something in it's own right.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 8, 2012)

soulx is getting mighty assblasted from multiple angles.

MISSION SUCCESSFUL GENTS, BACK TO CAMP FOR FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS.

But yeah at this point trying to argue with soulx is like arguing with a brick wall, but I think the brick wall's viewpoints on this issue are a little more credible.

EDIT: Oh and I miss the days when we had soulsnatcher. What ever happened to that guy?


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 8, 2012)

Gahars said:


> @*soulx*
> 
> There's an eye doctor option right there. I know the text can be a bit hard to read, but zooming in should help you make what you're seeing.
> 
> ...


Continuing with the personal attacks, Gahars?

It wasn't 140 characters since it was a retweet, more like 21 characters. Even in that case, you haven't debunked any of my points. All he has done was state the game is a rip-off (that's his opinion). Is there anything wrong with that? No.

You have yet to provide any acceptable points as to why his comments are immature. You say that he is judging the game without trying it first but I say that he doesn't need to try it as it already goes against what he values as a developer (creative integrity and all that). He dislikes the game because it copies Smash Bros and trying it out isn't going to change that.

I've already elaborated as to why the game is a rip-off of Smash Brothers and you haven't said anything in response to that. To re-iterate, Smash Bros is one of a kind. A 4-player mascot brawler with items. All Stars has copied that. That can't be argued.



Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx is getting mighty assblasted from multiple angles.
> 
> MISSION SUCCESSFUL GENTS, BACK TO CAMP FOR FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS.
> 
> ...


Hooray for personal attacks and not arguing against any of the points I made. Oh wait, it's Guild.


"Oh and I miss the days when we had 2009/10 Guild McCommunist. You know, the Wii game reviewing guy."


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## emigre (Aug 8, 2012)

I like at how I can be personally offensive to other users, yet my behavior is almost universally condoned or even encouraged.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

emigre said:


> I like at how I can be personally offensive to other users, yet my behavior is almost universally condoned or even encouraged.


Because you do it in a rather sarcastic manner. It's hard to tell if you're serious or not.


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## Alex221 (Aug 8, 2012)

soulx said:


> Alex221 said:
> 
> 
> > Fucking asians think they own the place... Hey hideki kamiya aren't you a fucking ripoff of other asians??? because you all look the fucking same to me
> ...


I was joking, i just wanted to see people's responses and see if it stirred them up.


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## emigre (Aug 8, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > I like at how I can be personally offensive to other users, yet my behavior is almost universally condoned or even encouraged.
> ...



There was me thinking I got off by being aable to incorporate my sister's failed marriage with Dragon Quest X's online service.




Alex221 said:


> I was joking, i just wanted to see people's responses and see if it stirred them up.



Your joke was soulsnatcher-esque. A.K.A shit, unfunny and stupid.


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## Alex221 (Aug 8, 2012)

emigre said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > emigre said:
> ...


thanks for the feedback bro, i didn't know your job was to go on forums and judge people's comments/actions


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## emigre (Aug 8, 2012)

I was joking, I just wanted to see people's responses and see if it stirred them up.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 8, 2012)

emigre said:


> I was joking, I just wanted to see people's responses and see if it stirred them up.


Oh you stirred me up alright.


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## emigre (Aug 8, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > I was joking, I just wanted to see people's responses and see if it stirred them up.
> ...



I love stirring porridge. 

And by porridge, I mean sperm.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 8, 2012)

emigre said:


> I was joking, I just wanted to see people's responses and see if it stirred them up.


Offensive but it's hard not to laugh. XD


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 8, 2012)

Alex221 said:


> thanks for the feedback bro, i didn't know your job was to go on forums and judge people's comments/actions



Well, now you know.

Also I concur that your joke was unfunny and do actually endorse soulx's response to it.


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## Alex221 (Aug 8, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Alex221 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for the feedback bro, i didn't know your job was to go on forums and judge people's comments/actions
> ...


I know it wasn't funny. Like i said before i just wanted to stir people up and screw with them


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## Issac (Aug 8, 2012)

Well, somethings can be said the other way around. Especially the part about sticking your fingers in your ears and decide to not look / reply to inconvenient arguments. As I had zero response for any of my arguments as of why I see it as a rip-off. With pictures, ice cream analogies, seeing positive points in it all, but still consider it a rip-off.

And then I must ask if you know how twitter works? 
In the first post a user asks if he would like to see some of his characters in PSASBR. That question took up 110 characters out of 140. In those 30 characters he's giving a reply to that tweet. He says: "No. I don't like that game."
In the second post, another user say that he'd love to see some character in PSASBR, but agrees with Kamiya that "It doesn't look good". His reply to that is "it's just a rip-off"
In the third post, a third user critisisies Kamiya for making that previos statement, since Kamiya hasn't tried it. First off, I'd like to ask if anyone knows for sure that Kamiya hasn't been able to try it? I mean, there has been E3 demos, right? Sometimes, some devs are able to try other devs works? I don't know if he has or hasn't, but does anyone know anything about it for sure? Anyway, His reply to that is that he thinks, in his oppinion that "it's just a rip-off, that is all"
In the fourth post, same user as in the third post say that Fans has been wanting a PlayStation Smash Bros game, and that listening to those fans and following a successful series is good. (You can argue that that is "copying a successful series" or not: in my oppinion, the fact that the devs openly said that they have been inspired by the game is a way of saying they have copied ideas. MY OPPINION!). Here Kamya replies that whilst they "follow a successful series" and give fans what they want, they at the same time throw their morals away. Kamiya thinking that original and fresh ideas are better than borrowing "too much" (in his and a few other's oppinion).
The fifth and last tweet, a fourth user tells Kamiya that his game "bayonetta" is a rip-off of "devil may cry", in which he replies "use your brain", since Kamiya made both those games.

Now what was the whiny, bitching, crying, immature statements in his short replies to other user's questions and comments?


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## MelodieOctavia (Aug 8, 2012)

Can't say I didn't see this happening...


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