# Anyone here believe a ghost?



## Sathya (Oct 18, 2017)

I believe a ghost. any1 here have a experince about ghost?


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## Deleted User (Oct 18, 2017)

I only believe in the holy spirit.


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## rileysrjay (Oct 18, 2017)

I dunno, maybe ask @Yil ? He seems to know this kind of stuff...


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

I've seen questionable things.
But I highly doubt paranormal things like that exist.


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## SuperDan (Oct 18, 2017)

*Patrick Swayze  wasn't really dead it was just a film  ...........but he is dead now ... but has never came back and made pottery with me the lazy ghost summabitch !!*


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## Beerus (Oct 18, 2017)

there isnt a  ghost but a psyco who breaks into peoples homes just to stare at them (currently happening in my area )


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## sup3rgh0st (Oct 18, 2017)

I know a gh0st, he's a pretty sup3r dude.


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## jimmyj (Oct 18, 2017)

sup3rgh0st said:


> I know a gh0st, he's a pretty sup3r dude.


nice!


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## GreatCrippler (Oct 18, 2017)

No, I am not 12, nor do I do drugs. I do not believe in ghosts.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

I do believe in ghost as in passed-on mortals. Ancestral worship is actually very common until Christianity ruined everything, and Biology then get sweet revenge on Christianity, causing atheism to raise. Ghosts typically are not entirely pleasant but remember they were mortal once so you can trust them more than say other spirits.
Personally I believe you get claimed by a deity you go to their afterlife (remember in Christianity all other gods are demons when they say you go to hell for not believing in god, which is just Christianity demonizing other religions), otherwise your current existence gets torn down and recycled.

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Beerus said:


> there isnt a  ghost but a psyco who breaks into peoples homes just to stare at them (currently happening in my area )


Real people are definitely more threatening than an average spirit. There are many ways to resist a spirit but the only to deal with a psycho is kill them.


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## zoogie (Oct 18, 2017)

Would I believe a ghost?

Depends on what area of expertise they .. possess.

I'd be all ears if they wanted to discuss things like the afterlife, the paranormal, or 80's B-horror cinema.


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## Abu_Senpai (Oct 18, 2017)

Nope i dont believe in ghosts. But i do believe that beings aside from humans exist out there.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

GreatCrippler said:


> No, I am not 12, nor do I do drugs. I do not believe in ghosts.


do you believe in a consciousness ?. . . because that cant be explained . . . do you believe that even in the dark you are surrounded by light ?. . . because you are . . . things dont need to be tangible to exist


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## GreatCrippler (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> do you believe in a consciousness ?. . . because that cant be explained . . . do you believe that even in the dark you are surrounded by light ?. . . because you are . . . things dont need to be tangible to exist



How very... ummm, deep? My consciousness is something I am very aware of at all waking hours. Light, and darkness are a matter of fact, and can even be measured. Ghosts are primitive stories meant to scare children.


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## Super.Nova (Oct 18, 2017)

I do believe in ghosts but not in the form often perceived.
I think that, yes, they exist in some form/realm/dimension or whatever you'd call it but it's not as easy to contact as some may imply.

I've heard many stories from people I'd describe as trusted to me dealing with nasty shit like ghosts a d real magic.
Most of these stories are 40~60 years old but the amount of consistent info is somewhat scary though questionable.
I mainly believe in them for religious reasons (satans) but I'm yet to encounter anything I could assume as a solid proof.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Oct 18, 2017)

It depends on what the ghost is saying, and how trustworthy they seem


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

GreatCrippler said:


> My consciousness is something I am very aware of at all waking hours.


wrong you are not aware of consciousness but rather due to consciousness you are aware . . .


GreatCrippler said:


> Light, and darkness are a matter of fact, and can even be measured.


there is a reason its called the "visible light spectrum" (how silly of humans to decide that tools that they developed to see light can see light in all its variations) . . . and how does one "measure" light exactly?





GreatCrippler said:


> Light, and darkness are a matter of fact, and can even be measured


dark is the absence of light . . . how do you measure that? 


GreatCrippler said:


> Ghosts are primitive stories meant to scare children.


prove it (in other words thats an opinion not a proven fact)


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## ploggy (Oct 18, 2017)

If there's such things as ghosts where's all the ghost Dinosaurs huh?


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## GreatCrippler (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> wrong you are not aware of consciousness but rather due to consciousness you are aware . . .
> there is a reason its called the "visible light spectrum" (how silly of humans to decide that tools that they developed to see light can see light in all its variations) . . . and how does one "measure" light exactly?
> prove it (in other words thats an opinion not a proven fact)



I'm keeping some other opinions to myself too.


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## Beerus (Oct 18, 2017)

5 spooky 3 me


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## Invision (Oct 18, 2017)

I'm not sure if I do or not.


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## gnmmarechal (Oct 18, 2017)

I don't. At all.


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## zeldaism (Oct 18, 2017)

ploggy said:


> If there's such things as ghosts where's all the ghost Dinosaurs huh?


The question everyone wants answers to lol.


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## ploggy (Oct 18, 2017)

zeldaism said:


> The question everyone wants answers to lol.


IT would be fukin' awesome to see a T-Rex ghost or something stomping around the local town centre lol


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> wrong you are not aware of consciousness but rather due to consciousness you are aware . . .
> there is a reason its called the "visible light spectrum" (how silly of humans to decide that tools that they developed to see light can see light in all its variations) . . . and how does one "measure" light exactly?dark is the absence of light . . . how do you measure that?
> prove it (in other words thats an opinion not a proven fact)


True darkness means nullification of photon, which causes Both Electrostatic and magnetism to fail, which all electronic will fail for obvious reasons, and gravity will collapse everything until it either gets repelled by weak interaction or generate a singularity. But you can measure the intensity of various light, which if it goes too low for the eyes to see, you can call that darkness.


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## zoogie (Oct 18, 2017)

Kinda dumb thread, but since we're close to Halloween, it's actually a great thread


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

zeldaism said:


> The question everyone wants answers to lol.


Ghost can only presist for so long that all of ancient ones would perish.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> But you can measure the intensity of various light, which if it goes too low for the eyes to see, you can call that darkness.


weak yes but light visible (to us) or not still exist was/is my point


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## GreatCrippler (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> weak yes but light visible (to us) or not still exist was/is my point



So, your argument is based on the amount of light that can be measured?


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

GreatCrippler said:


> So, your argument is based on the amount of light that can be measured?


I think it's that just because you cannot observe them does not proof their non-existence.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

GreatCrippler said:


> So, your argument is based on the amount of light that can be measured?


no its based on the fact that even if you can not see/hear/feel/smell/taste (measure) something does not mean that it does not exist it only means you cant measure it properly . . . light was simply an example of something we can all agree exist and can potentially be undetectable


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## Sliter (Oct 18, 2017)

I don't believe because they lie too much!

/runs
Actually, I'm into spiritism, even not seeing anything yet


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## GreatCrippler (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> I think it's that just because you cannot observe them does not proof their non-existence.



Given we can prove light exists, the argument is not really relevant. You'd be a lot better off explaining god as something you can't see but know in your heart exists. (For the record I don't believe in God either) Even then, stories, and nothing more.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

Sliter said:


> I don't believe because they lie too much!
> 
> /runs
> Actually, I'm into spiritism, even not seeing anything yet


I think it's actually some other sense that we interpret as vision, as it is most used sense for many, and the best metaphor to be construct upon.


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## WiiUBricker (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> I believe in ghost as in passed-on mortals.


Do you think bacteria, insects and other small, mortal organisms turn to ghosts when they're dead?


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## GreatCrippler (Oct 18, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Do you think bacteria, insects and other small, mortal organisms turn to ghosts when they're dead?



And that's how you get zombies.


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## Meteor7 (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> wrong you are not aware of consciousness but rather due to consciousness you are aware . . .


These two things are not mutually exclusive. I don't think I've ever known a person to not be aware of their own consciousness.


> there is a reason its called the "visible light spectrum" (how silly of humans to decide that tools that they developed to see light can see light in all its variations) . . . and how does one "measure" light exactly?


In Lumens, typically, or number/area density of photons per second permeating a space. Geiger counters, for example, measure the intensity of electromagnetic rasiation using a phenomenon known as the photoelectric effect, wherein surface-level atoms of certain metals ionize when exposed to light of a certain frequency. Measuring light is not rocket science, and neither is it mystical or metaphysical. It's very easily quantified.


> dark is the absence of light . . . how do you measure that?


Haha, I mean, in how many photons there aren't? 
Like I said, there's nothing mystical about light, it's just any form of electromagnetic radiation, which is just an electric and magnetic field, orthogonal to each other, oscillating in a pattern through space. You can also think of it as little packets of quantized energy, or "photons". You talk as if light is some mystical thing, immeasurable and undefinable, but it is very very much neither of those things.


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## Sliter (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> I think it's actually some other sense that we interpret as vision, as it is most used sense for many, and the best a metaphor to be construct upon.


yes, that was what I meant by "seeing"


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

GreatCrippler said:


> Given we can prove light exists, the argument is not really relevant. You'd be a lot better off explaining god as something you can't see but know in your heart exists. (For the record I don't believe in God either) Even then, stories, and nothing more.


i would have chosen god if i wanted to prove you right . . . god (or religion in general) is a creation of man to explain our otherwise meaningless existence (if science was always as developed as it is now we would have never experienced religion) 

why when trying to prove somethings true would i compare it to something widely believed to be false


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I've seen questionable things.
> But I highly doubt paranormal things like that exist.



The reason you doubt because you never saw one. If you saw one then you would believe paranormal things like that exist. That's normal not to believe or doubt about it due that you never seen anything like that. Do I believe ghosts ? No.. Do I believe spirit ? Ghost and spirit are two difference things. Yes, however I never saw one and I rather not so I still believe spirit exists.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Do you think bacteria, insects and other small, mortal organisms turn to ghosts when they're dead?


Yes, and specifically in some culture even none organic matter can possess this propety, for example in some culture crystal is believed to be alive, and the growth of minerals is comparable to cellar structure. However human is the most ahead since we actually have a brain while they need to develop them in some other structure (non-cellar, likely non atomic). For common animals though it is pretty common to have spirit, as it is found in shamanism and some large branch of Pagan.


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## YTElias (Oct 18, 2017)

I only believe in god
https://www.google.de/search?q=god&...ih=694&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=sqTnWY-IO4fcaL6JgXA


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> The reason you doubt because you never saw one. If you saw one then you would believe paranormal things like that exist. That's normal not to believe or doubt about it due that you never seen anything like that. Do I believe ghosts ? No.. Do I believe spirit ? Ghost and spirit are two difference things. Yes, however I never saw one and I rather not so I still believe spirit exists.



*chair moves on its own*

OMG THAT WAS A SPIRIT FROM ANOTHER WORLDD!!!!!
OHHH LORD JESUS HELP ME.

Sorry but I'm not that pathetic.

Bring me some concrete evidence that paranormal things exist.
Backed up by multiple scientists.


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## WiiUBricker (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> Yes, and specifically in some culture even none organic matter can possess this propety, for example in some culture crystal is believed to be alive, and the growth of minerals is comparable to cellar structure. However human is the most ahead since we actually have a brain while they need to develop them in some other structure (non-cellar, likely non atomic). For common animals though it is pretty common to have spirit, as it is found in shamanism and some large branch of Pagan.


What do you think is the molecular composition of ghosts?


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## Reyn_the_Insane (Oct 18, 2017)

Personally, I do not believe they exist. I work at a theatre that many people have said they've seen the ghost that haunts it, but in the 7 years I've been there, not once have I seen it. However, I do believe invisible spirits exist, as in angels and demons.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> What do you think is the molecular composition of ghosts?


Non-molecular. First theory I've seen is a cluster of low velocity wide-spaced neutrino that is bind by gravity, but then this defies the fact that gravity is warp of space-time. The other one is that it occupies imaginary space/ real time or real space/ imaginary time, which my money is on the latter.


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## WiiUBricker (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> None molecular. First theory I've seen is a cluster of low velocity wide-spaced neutrino that is bind by gravity, but then this defies the fact that gravity is warp of space-time. The other one is that it occupies imaginary space/ real time or real space/ imaginary time, which my money is on the latter.


Hm.. I never heard of imaginary time and space. Can you explain this a bit?


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## gnmmarechal (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> wrong you are not aware of consciousness but rather due to consciousness you are aware . . .
> there is a reason its called the "visible light spectrum" (how silly of humans to decide that tools that they developed to see light can see light in all its variations) . . . and how does one "measure" light exactly?dark is the absence of light . . . how do you measure that?
> prove it (in other words thats an opinion not a proven fact)


bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

Measure light? the number of photons? The brightness? Wavelength? We have ways of measuring all of that, you know. Measuring darkness? lmfao.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Hm.. I never heard of imaginary time and space. Can you explain this a bit?


Space-time in complex form, which are regularly R4 but could be C4. Imaginary time is actually a good solution to many quantum property.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

Meteor7 said:


> These two things are not mutually exclusive. I don't think I've ever known a person to not be aware of their own consciousness.


never watched a baby nor worked with mentally disabled people before huh

so you observe measure light through a "phenomenon" (i already knew how to measure light but asked to make a point) . . . please define "phenomenon" . . . thought so if you need something not explainable to take place in order to measure then can it truly be called measured and whats more an phenomenon is what a spirit (or ghost) would be considered


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## Meteor7 (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> never watched a baby nor worked with mentally disabled people before huh
> 
> so you observe measure light through a "phenomenon" (i already knew how to measure light but asked to make a point) . . . please define "phenomenon" . . . thought so if you need something not explainable to take place in order to measure then can it truly be called measured and whats more an phenomenon is what a spirit (or ghost) would be considered


The phenomenon was exactly what I described, the photoelectric effect. It was just as a means to give an example of one way in which the intensity of light is measured.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

Meteor7 said:


> Haha, I mean, in how many photons there aren't?





gnmmarechal said:


> Measuring darkness? lmfao.


i know this . . . perhaps you missed the post i quoted there





GreatCrippler said:


> Light, *and darkness* are a matter of fact, *and can even be measured*.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> never watched a baby nor worked with mentally disabled people before huh
> 
> so you observe measure light through a "phenomenon" (i already knew how to measure light but asked to make a point) . . . please define "phenomenon" . . . thought so if you need something not explainable to take place in order to measure then can it truly be called measured and whats more an phenomenon is what a spirit (or ghost) would be considered


Photon collide with eye, induced electricity, brain receive signal and we see things. Good point, not very good argument. If we can observe something in its entirety, then we can know it. But then is there truly a limit.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> *chair moves on its own*
> 
> OMG THAT WAS A SPIRIT FROM ANOTHER WORLDD!!!!!
> OHHH LORD JESUS HELP ME.
> ...



Evidence, how ? Impossible.. Its your decision to believe it or not. You want to believe it with your own eyes ? Not necessary. Believing things doesnt mean you have to see it as a proof. 

Spirit from another world ? Never thought of that. Silly idea. Where does the came from ? Yeah, from those people made up in their own imagine and their own idea. LOL!


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Evidence, how ? Impossible.. Its your decision to believe it or not. You want to believe it with your own eyes ? Not necessary. Believing things doesnt mean you have to see it as a proof.
> 
> Spirit from another world ? Never thought of that. Silly idea. Where does the came from ? Yeah, from those people made up in their own imagine and their own idea. LOL!



We're living in the 21st century, with a wealth of knowledge and so much technology.
Seriously, believing in ghosts/evil spirits/ other paranormal things is a thing of the past.
Much like religion.

But somehow, people like to live backwards it seems...


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Evidence, how ? Impossible.. Its your decision to believe it or not with your own eyes or not. Believing things doesnt mean you have to see it as a proof.
> 
> Spirit from another world ? Never thought of that. Silly idea. Where does the came from ? Yeah, from those people made up in their own imagine and their own idea. LOL!


If physics advance far enough we might be able to see them and will start to understand them better. Sadly curiosity typically tend to take away mystery, and when we see it all (or perish trying to achieve that) what will we do then?

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DinohScene said:


> We're living in the 21st century, with a wealth of knowledge and so much technology.
> Seriously, believing in ghosts/evil spirits/ other paranormal things is a thing of the past.
> Much like religion.
> 
> But somehow, people like to live backwards it seems...


Cause we missed lots of things when Christianity ruined Europe, and the revival of science among many other things are, to me, misdirected. Aggression to Christianity, which is in our right, should not turn into denial of its entirety, and certainly not other things more ancient than Christianity.


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## WiiUBricker (Oct 18, 2017)

Yil said:


> Space-time in complex form, which are regularly R4 but could be C4. Imaginary time is actually a good solution to many quantum property.



Do you think the Undertaker can summon demons?


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Do you think the Undertaker can summon demons?


Yes. Always make sure all terms are on table, and that should be true with anyome. Make sure you have ways to threaten back so thngs don't get one sided.
Edit: Nevermind, I miss interprete the message. But it's possible. In fact the one thing I am afraid of is our world gets overrun by those things.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Do you think the Undertaker can summon demons?





Yil said:


> Yes. Always make sure all terms are on table, and that should be true with anyome. Make sure you have ways to threaten back so thngs don't get one sided.


wait wait did you really answer? i thought that was a joke involving this guy



Spoiler











edit: stupid gbatemp not letting me attach the pic the first time . . . gbatemp your fucking up comedic timing


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> We're living in the 21st century, with a wealth of knowledge and so much technology.
> Seriously, believing in ghosts/evil spirits/ other paranormal things is a thing of the past.
> Much like religion.
> 
> But somehow, people like to live backwards it seems...



Nothing to do with 21st century. And still your opinion.


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Nothing to do with 21st century. And still your opinion.



It's not an opinion, it's just common sense.


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## plasturion (Oct 18, 2017)

Sure I do in Holy Spirit, but not only, however I think most popular paranormal phenomena can be simulated by evil spirits.
I don't have to worry about this, but if someone don't feel safe one thing I can suggest is try to pray for the souls in Purgatory you let them close to God and they need that. Purgatory is not a place but state. You are doing angelic stuff trying this. You can intentional offer your time, work, abandon halloween. It's good pray to God through Virgin Mary. Rosary is best.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> It's not an opinion, it's just common sense.


at one point "common sense" said the world was flat
or 
was any historical "genius" considered common


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> at one point "common sense" said the world was flat
> or
> was any historical "genius" considered common



500 years from now on, people would have a rather primitive opinion about us.
Using phones to make conversations, using screens to watch things, believing we're alone in the universe.

It's progression which makes changes.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> at one point "common sense" said the world was flat
> or
> was any historical "genius" considered common


I think that's just some religions. Greeks were well aware that earth is round and rotates around the sun (with relatively accurate numbers, say within 10% using very outdated equipments), and they never rejected mysticism.

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DinohScene said:


> 500 years from now on, people would have a rather primitive opinion about us.
> Using phones to make conversations, using screens to watch things, believing we're alone in the universe.
> 
> It's progression which makes changes.


And who is it that denies the existence of other things out there? Aetheist.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> 500 years from now on, people would have a rather primitive opinion about us.
> Using phones to make conversations, using screens to watch things, believing we're alone in the universe.
> 
> It's progression which makes changes.


and there is no progression without discontent so if we all consent to common sense progression will stop and in 500 years they will be doing the same thing we do today


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> and there is no progression without discontent so if we all consent to common sense progression will stop and in 500 years they will be doing the same thing we do today



Progression is moving forward.
Away from the past, where idiots believe in supernatural nonsense.


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## Yil (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Progression is moving forward.
> Away from the past, where idiots believe in supernatural nonsense.


That does not mean the past is absolutely false and we have no foundation.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 18, 2017)

plasturion said:


> Sure I do in Holy Spirit, but not only, however I think most popular paranormal phenomena can be simulated by evil spirits.
> I don't have to worry about this, but if someone don't feel safe one thing I can suggest is try to pray for the souls in Purgatory you let them close to God and they need that. Purgatory is not a place but state. You are doing angelic stuff trying this. You can intentional offer your time, work, abandon halloween. It's good pray to God through Virgin Mary. Rosary is best.



Really ? You shouldn't according to this:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, ..

And

Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. You shouldnt used the Rosary for it is an idols. And you should pray to God through his son Jesus Christ. Not Virgin Mary.


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## wormdood (Oct 18, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Progression is moving forward.
> Away from the past, where idiots believe in supernatural nonsense.


i have no problem with progression . . . its "common sense" that bothers me . . . we as a species should strive to be extraordinary not common . . .


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## DinohScene (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> i have no problem with progression . . . its "common sense" that bothers me . . . we as a species should strive to be extraordinary not common . . .



Idk lad, common sense is what keeps the society from exterminating itself.


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## plasturion (Oct 18, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Really ? You shouldn't according to this:
> 
> Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, ..
> 
> ...


Agree I should say to God, trough Jesus Christ, thanks to Virgin Mary? Maybe I messed something, but If Jesus is Way, Truth and Life, Virgin Mary cannot be as a person His part?


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## FAST6191 (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> prove it (in other words thats an opinion not a proven fact)


Generally to get anywhere in debate we have to enact a "the one making the extraordinary claims is the one to prove it" principle. The claim of ghosts is one of the extraordinary claims and the onus is then on the one making it to qualify it.

Going further such a claim would also have to satisfy 
What culture's ghosts? The ghosts of Thailand function rather differently to the ghosts of Christian lands, though they in turn tend to borrow from prior beliefs (and Christianity was great at gobbling up prior beliefs and twisting them to view through its own lens -- rag trees in Ireland vs whatever went with trees in Scandinavia) and that is just two of many. Am I then to believe that the universe cares about country/cultural borders?
Psychology has a lot to say on the matter and I can induce such feelings fairly easily (certain frequencies of audio and EM radiation do well), even better if I condition someone over decades to be receptive to such things. If the culture thing does not cover sociology too then it and group psychology says more.
Physics has even more. Information is a concept within physics and if a ghost can manifest it is then a conveyor of information, if we also have ones with the ability to take physical action then that is energy and possibly mass too (the probably light energy to create a human noticeable action under earth conditions, even if you assume it is a black body at the perfect angle, is insane).

You mentioned consciousness. Some time back what is now (and actually then as well) known as organic chemistry was deemed outside the realms of man and only nature could do it, a laughable notion today (and actually at the time it was also done but they did not think it). OK so I can synthesise organic compounds but life needs a spark, oh wait we have a man made virus. Virus is not life, that is OK as we have bacteria now too. Computing is not quite there to simulate one but brain nodes are sort of there and I am not going to rule out an independent AI happening either. To the best of my knowledge an artificially created consciousness has not happened, however I can see it happening.


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 18, 2017)

i personally believe, but i won't explain how and why i belive, i don't want to make other people believe as i don't want to make other people stop believe on it, everybody should respect people's beliefs/opinions, if you don't believe fine i don't have any problem, but if someone else believe, don't be an idiot and talk bad about it, but RESPECT IT, even if you have never seen such things like that, respect is something that everybody deserve and if you want to be respected, respect others too
i'm not saying this to someone, i didn't even read the comments but i'm sure there are people who believe and who doesn't, and i'm sure some of those who doesn't won't respect


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## froggestspirit (Oct 18, 2017)

A ghost tried to approach me, it got leary


----------



## G0R3Z (Oct 18, 2017)

wormdood said:


> at one point "common sense" said the world was flat
> or
> was any historical "genius" considered common



Myth, no Scientist or Geographer ever believed the world was flat. Even the Vikings knew it was round, everybody knew it was a sphere, or oblate spheroid. Christopher Columbus, the failure worshipped by america, believed it was pear shaped and much smaller than it actually is however.

As for Ghosts? I have no reason to believe anything without evidence. There is no evidence to believe that ghosts or any other paranormal phenomena actually exist. It is perfectly acceptable to change your opinion if new evidence is presented, I would willingly accept the existence of ghosts if there was any proof that couldn't be debunked as either mental instability, camera tricks on film or any other trickery. Anyone with an extraordinary claim must be the one to prove their claim, not the skeptical to disprove it.


----------



## spotanjo3 (Oct 18, 2017)

plasturion said:


> Agree I should say to God, trough Jesus Christ, thanks to Virgin Mary? Maybe I messed something, but If Jesus is Way, Truth and Life, Virgin Mary cannot be as a person His part?



That is okay. We can make mistake understanding the bible.

No, many churches keep Virgin Mary in present time and bible mention that Virgin Mary is no more for she had 4 sons after first son Jesus was born total of five sons and the bible mention that she had several daughters but didnt say how many, thought. She was just Jesus's mother that God choose her to give a birth baby Jesus. Jesus himself said that we shall worship his God father through Jesus's name and no idols including Rosary are allowed according to God's law of Ten Commandments. Many churches ignored God's law and have many idols as well as Jesus idolatry in the churches including worship "Virgin Mary" idolatry also. That's incorrect.


----------



## aykay55 (Oct 18, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> That is okay. We can make mistake understanding the bible.
> 
> No, many churches keep Virgin Mary in present time and bible mention that Virgin Mary is no more for she had 4 sons after first son Jesus was born total of five sons and the bible mention that she had several daughters but didnt say how many, thought. She was just Jesus's mother that God choose her to give a birth baby Jesus. Jesus himself said that we shall worship his God father through Jesus's name and no idols including Rosary are allowed according to God's law of Ten Commandments. Many churches ignored God's law and have many idols as well as Jesus idolatry in the churches including worship "Virgin Mary" idolatry also. That's incorrect.


Just curious, how many forms of life do Christians believe God created? Humans, Animals, Angels, ?


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## G0R3Z (Oct 18, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> Just curious, how many forms of life do Christians believe God created? Humans, Animals, Angels, ?



As far as I know, Christians believe their 'God' Created literally everything. 

Their Religion is one giant Deus ex Machina; every explanation is 'god did/allowed/forced/coerced/killed'


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## falconcrest (Oct 18, 2017)

love and hate...
light and dark...
life and death...
they are all opposite sides of the same coin...
they are together yet destined to forever remain apart...


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## aykay55 (Oct 18, 2017)

I meant how many life forms God created. I know they believe God created everything, same as me. How many different 'things' did God give life to, like Humans, Angels, and Animals. What else?


G0R3Z said:


> As far as I know, Christians believe their 'God' Created literally everything.
> 
> Their Religion is one giant Deus ex Machina; every explanation is 'god did/allowed/forced/coerced/killed'


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## grossaffe (Oct 18, 2017)

I've never met a trustworthy ghost.  I won't believe anything they say.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Oct 18, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> I meant how many life forms God created. I know they believe God created everything, same as me. How many different 'things' did God give life to, like Humans, Angels, and Animals. What else?


Humans and animals definitely, according to traditional text. I don't think there's anything that directly states one way or another if angels were created by God or not, though


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## G0R3Z (Oct 18, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Humans and animals definitely, according to traditional text. I don't think there's anything that directly states one way or another if angels were created by God or not, though



Is everyone on this forum a Theist? Crap. 

I've not read the bible in a long time as I'm not actually religious, although it is great fiction. But genesis states that in the beginning God, created the heavens and the earth. I'd assume Heavens apply to angels too.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Oct 18, 2017)

G0R3Z said:


> Is everyone on this forum a Theist? Crap.
> 
> I've not read the bible in a long time as I'm not actually religious, although it is great fiction. But genesis states that in the beginning God, created the heavens and the earth. I'd assume Heavens apply to angels too.


I consider myself agnostic, but I had an incredibly religious upbringing.


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 18, 2017)

i'm not too much religious too, i don't even look so much at these things
but as i said guys, just have respect by eachother please, if you don't believe in good its fine i respect so everybody should respect too, and those who don't believe need to have respect too >: (


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## G0R3Z (Oct 18, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I consider myself agnostic, but I had an incredibly religious upbringing.



As did I, but I consider myself an Anti-Theist. I have no problem with spirituality and the belief in god itself, but I think that Religion is inherently damaging to the development of our civilisation, as well as stunting our advancement. 



BlueFox gui said:


> i'm not too much religious too, i don't even look so much at these things
> but as i said guys, just have respect by eachother please, if you don't believe in good its fine i respect so everybody should respect too, and those who don't believe need to have respect too >: (



No problem. I have no problem with people that believe in god, it's when people get super preachy with it, as though it's a fact.


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 18, 2017)

G0R3Z said:


> As did I, but I consider myself an Anti-Theist. I have no problem with spirituality and the belief in god itself, but I think that Religion is inherently damaging to the development of our civilisation, as well as stunting our advancement.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem. I have no problem with people that believe in god, it's when people get super preachy with it, as though it's a fact.


you know what fucks with EVERY i saw EVERY religion? the humanity, if most part of them are shit like they are today it's because the humanity did like that, i never read the whole bible cuz i don't have interest but i'm almost sure that there isn't any part saying to hate different people and things


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## osaka35 (Oct 18, 2017)

ghost are not real. gods are not real. the supernatural does not exist. Our brains just like filling in things it doesn't know with nonsense and abstract desires. A large chunk of all our memories are either fake or assumptions. Psychology is fun.


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 18, 2017)

lol


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## G0R3Z (Oct 18, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> you know what fucks with EVERY i saw EVERY religion? the humanity, if most part of them are shit like they are today it's because the humanity did like that, i never read the whole bible cuz i don't have interest but i'm almost sure that there isn't any part saying to hate different people and things



There's plenty of passages implying that they should hate and kill. Deuteronomy 17 commands christians to kill non-believers by stoning them to death.


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## aykay55 (Oct 18, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I consider myself agnostic, but I had an incredibly religious upbringing.


I hate how some people call themselves religious but don't know anything beyond Church. I don't mean you, you are very educated in the area/subject of religion

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



osaka35 said:


> ghost are not real. gods are not real. the supernatural does not exist. Our brains just like filling in things it doesn't know with nonsense and abstract desires. A large chunk of all our memories are either fake or assumptions. Psychology is fun.


So where did *we* come from? Did we just appear with a poof?


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## APartOfMe (Oct 18, 2017)

apparently one of them is following me


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## aykay55 (Oct 18, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> you know what fucks with EVERY i saw EVERY religion? the humanity, if most part of them are shit like they are today it's because the humanity did like that, i never read the whole bible cuz i don't have interest but i'm almost sure that there isn't any part saying to hate different people and things


I hate how people like you, who got way too confused with Christianity, don't look beyond Christianity. There is much more to religion than the Bible. The Torah, The Qur'an, the [fill in Hindu's holy book], etc. Please look more, actually look. Research it, don't GSearch it!


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## swabbo (Oct 18, 2017)

A ghost once told me he was a millionaire when he was alive but I didn't believe him


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## The Catboy (Oct 18, 2017)

I have experienced things that I have a hard time explaining, but I do believe there is a rational reason behind them. Most likely that reason is a detail that I failed to notice at the time and thus made the experience appear to be paranormal.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> Just curious, how many forms of life do Christians believe God created? Humans, Animals, Angels, ?



God created Heavens and Earth and everything in it.


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## Megadriver94 (Oct 19, 2017)

If you weren't born very late at night, seeing ghosts and related beings is harder(especially if you were born in daylight hours). they usually are seen when they want to be seen. The reason why many ghosts haven't moved on to the Other Side AKA the "otherworld" varies by entity.


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## aykay55 (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> God created Heavens and Earth and everything in it.


But how many life forms has God created according to Christianity?


----------



## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> But how many life forms has God created according to Christianity?


if it's alive, God created it.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> i personally believe, but i won't explain how and why i belive, i don't want to make other people believe as i don't want to make other people stop believe on it, everybody should respect people's beliefs/opinions, if you don't believe fine i don't have any problem, but if someone else believe, don't be an idiot and talk bad about it, but RESPECT IT, even if you have never seen such things like that, respect is something that everybody deserve and if you want to be respected, respect others too
> i'm not saying this to someone, i didn't even read the comments but i'm sure there are people who believe and who doesn't, and i'm sure some of those who doesn't won't respect



There is a phrase along the lines of you may believe your wife is the most beautiful in the world and some treat beliefs the same way. Others still would argue such a thing can not be extended to beliefs for while the former is a statement of your internal mind the latter is a statement on how the universe works. I do however live in the universe and a statement on how it works directly impacts me. To that end bring evidence and be prepared to be grilled on it. Bring no evidence and be prepared to be laughed at and dismissed.



epickid37 said:


> if it's alive, God created it.


Even those life forms that humans created?


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## Megadriver94 (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> God created Heavens and Earth and everything in it.


This isn't just true for Christianity, but also Judaism, Islam, Egyptian Amon Ra Mohothiesm(promoted by heretical treasonous pharaoh Akenaton) and Zoroastrianism, the latter of which is older than all save for maybe Judaism(though some historians think Zoroaster's birth happened at an older date than 650 BCE).


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> There is a phrase along the lines of you may believe your wife is the most beautiful in the world and some treat beliefs the same way. Others still would argue such a thing can not be extended to beliefs for while the former is a statement of your internal mind the latter is a statement on how the universe works. I do however live in the universe and a statement on how it works directly impacts me. To that end bring evidence and be prepared to be grilled on it. Bring no evidence and be prepared to be laughed at and dismissed.
> 
> 
> Even those life forms that humans created?


*Jeremiah 1:5*
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

im the "OP" in here i mean :
I believe god holy spirit and anything. and my question is only are you believe a ghost or not.


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> im the "OP" in here i mean :
> I believe god holy spirit and anything. and my question is only are you believe a ghost or not.


no


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## osaka35 (Oct 19, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> I hate how some people call themselves religious but don't know anything beyond Church. I don't mean you, you are very educated in the area/subject of religion
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Well, we're still figuring out what happened pre-big bang, but we have a few solid concepts. Several competing hypothesis, some of which involve multiple dimensions or understanding the universe as a temporary state. It's all pretty interesting stuff. Really, it's just a matter of finding ways of testing them.

Everything post-big bang we've got a good handle on. Cosmology, astrophysics, physics, chemistry, bio-chemistry, and a few others bring us up to when sexual reproduction became a thing. At that point, evolutionary biology becomes a thing, and we've got more evidence for evolution than we do for gravity.

The answers to your questions are there, if you've a mind to go and learn about them. I'd be happy to answer all I know, but my degree isn't in evolutionary biology or astrophysics.


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## Abu_Senpai (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> *I am the OP of this thread.
> I personally believe in the holy spirit and my question was if you believe in Ghosts or not?*



I took the liberty of correcting your post since i really dont want people ridiculing your English anymore. 

Peace out


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> I took the liberty of correcting your post since i really dont want people ridiculing your English anymore.
> 
> Peace out


greate job buddy... Im not an english man, so i cant do it better like you


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> I took the liberty of correcting your post since i really dont want people ridiculing your English anymore.
> 
> Peace out


i think he was trying to say "I believe in God and the Holy Spirit and my question was whether you believe in ghosts or not?"


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## Abu_Senpai (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> greate job buddy... Im not an english man, so i cant do it better like you



Just try to get better at the language is all i will say, or else people will just ridicule you to no end and if you arent willing to learn then we cant really blame em. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



epickid37 said:


> i think he was trying to say "I believe in God and the *Holy Spirit and my question was whether you believe in ghosts or not?"*



Yeah i did include the bold bits from your post into my amendment above. 

But i couldn't make heads or tails of the God and Holy Spirit bit, so i just chose one of them.


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## rileysrjay (Oct 19, 2017)

@Sathya if you want people just talking about ghosts/spirits than it might be a good idea to update your original post. Otherwise people are going to continue talking about Christianity and whatnot.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2017)

epickid37 said:


> *Jeremiah 1:5*
> “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”



Assuming we are trying to use some translation of a the Christian bible to establish some truths for those that might want to use it as a guide to the universe, a backwards way of setting about things if you ask me but an established one and a game we can play, then that says nothing about printing DNA and creating a life form from that, which has been done ( https://www.nature.com/news/2010/100526/full/465406a.html ). It also says nothing about evolution or human directed alteration of life forms.
Unless that is some "ninja king begat humanity which begat said printed microbe therefore" type thing you are going for, in which case that would seem to go against free will and if I have not got that (and if I am supposed to choose my actions to be righteous that would imply I do have that) then this is all pointless.


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## wormdood (Oct 19, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Generally to get anywhere in debate we have to enact a "the one making the extraordinary claims is the one to prove it" principle. The claim of ghosts is one of the extraordinary claims and the onus is then on the one making it to qualify it.





G0R3Z said:


> Anyone with an extraordinary claim must be the one to prove their claim, not the skeptical to disprove it.


my claim is that his opinion that he says is fact is just that (an opinion) . . . never once did i express that i personally believe in ghosts or say that they were real i simply expressed and still do that its ridiculous to clam to be too old/sane/educated to believe that that something is false because you never saw/smelled/tasted/felt one/it personally . . . and went to back that up by declaring that everyone is surrounded by light even in the dark


Sathya said:


> im the "OP" in here i mean :
> I believe god holy spirit and anything. and my question is only are you believe a ghost or not.


sorry i somehow think i started the threads spiral . . . my bad


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 19, 2017)

guys let me just say, i don't care, i don't give a Puck, i just believe and respect what i think i should, and i live my life as the way i think its right so it's enough, i don't do shit i respect so its good, i don't read the bible, i don't have knowledge YES but i know how humanity is a shit and if religion says to hate and kill, *FUCK RELIGION *because i won't do anything bad to others


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## 8BitWonder (Oct 19, 2017)

Spoiler: So this doesn't eat up the page












I don't believe in ghosts, if they existed then we would have seen billions and billions of deceased people and animals by now.


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## wormdood (Oct 19, 2017)

8BitWonder said:


> Spoiler: So this doesn't eat up the page
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i will probably get more heat for saying this but not everything in life is visible . . . do you believe in molecules (but there are billions and billions of them and you cant see them easly)


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## aykay55 (Oct 19, 2017)

8BitWonder said:


> Spoiler: So this doesn't eat up the page
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you explain when people become 'possessed' then?


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 19, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> How do you explain when people become 'possessed' then?


my friend, possession is something really REALLY *REALLY *rare to happen


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## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2017)

wormdood said:


> my claim is that his opinion that he says is fact is just that (an opinion) . . . never once did i express that i personally believe in ghosts or say that they were real i simply expressed and still do that its ridiculous to clam to be too old/sane/educated to believe that that something is false because you never saw/smelled/tasted/felt one/it personally . . . and went to back that up by declaring that everyone is surrounded by light even in the dark


So that is either "proof of absence of not absence of proof, therefore", others have also taken you up on the "personally felt/..." thing as there are still plenty of ways to demonstrate the existence of such things or indeed show scope for the existence or predict the existence. Likewise it could also be demonstrated that claims usually find themselves readily explained by demonstrable effects of biology and psychology -- give me a human and I will train it to believe in ghosts sort of thing, show me a human that does and I will likely be able to replicate the effects in a controlled environment.
It is indeed true that any one experiment can disprove something held previously to be true, however it goes on a sliding scale and ghosts, as various cultures of the world have defined them (again often radically differently to each other), would fly in the face of very well established and experimented upon science and logic (I listed a bunch of effects claimed and how they would be incredibly improbable).

I shall read it however as you trying to promote better debate technique. I would then advise trying to be more direct in that sort of thing in the future.


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## 8BitWonder (Oct 19, 2017)

wormdood said:


> i will probably get more heat for saying this but not everything in life is visible . . . do you believe in molecules (but there are billions and billions of them and you cant see them easly)


We can see molecules just fine, it's just a pain to look at them individually. (Which can be done with electron microscopes, pretty cool stuff!)
We believe in molecules and atomic theory because there's ludicrous amounts of evidence that support it.
Meanwhile there is very little (likely none) concrete evidence of ghosts and paranormal entities.


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## aykay55 (Oct 19, 2017)

But


BlueFox gui said:


> my friend, possession is something really REALLY *REALLY *rare to happen


It happens. Diamond is rare but it exists. Nintendo Switches are rare but they exist. Exactly.


----------



## BlueFox gui (Oct 19, 2017)

aykay55 said:


> But
> 
> It happens. Diamond is rare but it exists. Nintendo Switches are rare but they exist. Exactly.


nintendo switches are expensive shit


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## aykay55 (Oct 19, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> nintendo switches are expensive shit


That's not the point.


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## Pleng (Oct 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> 500 years from now on, people would have a rather primitive opinion about us.
> Using phones to make conversations, using screens to watch things, *believing we're alone in the universe*.



So... You spend a good amount of your time, here and in other threads, criticizing people for believing in ghosts and religion based, very reasonably, on the premise that there's no proof of their existence. Then you suddenly slip in an insinuating that you're absolutely sure of the existence of extra terrestrials?

Huh


----------



## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Assuming we are trying to use some translation of a the Christian bible to establish some truths for those that might want to use it as a guide to the universe, a backwards way of setting about things if you ask me but an established one and a game we can play, then that says nothing about printing DNA and creating a life form from that, which has been done ( https://www.nature.com/news/2010/100526/full/465406a.html ). It also says nothing about evolution or human directed alteration of life forms.
> Unless that is some "ninja king begat humanity which begat said printed microbe therefore" type thing you are going for, in which case that would seem to go against free will and if I have not got that (and if I am supposed to choose my actions to be righteous that would imply I do have that) then this is all pointless.


They've spliced genes. No one has "created life." The amount of data in one DNA strand can contain the entire library of Congress, all the movies, and more. Man can't create this. They can modify it but man cannot create life


----------



## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 19, 2017)

Ghosts ? no.
The Holy Spirt ? Yes.


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## Yil (Oct 19, 2017)

The treacherous and deceiving god Yahweh is no creator, for Jews have suffered since the birth of Jesus, and their old pantheons cast out, forgotten, replaced with the venomous bible.
Asherah and El would like to have a word, false god.


----------



## lidolinn (Oct 19, 2017)

I don't believe in what we can't see. So many people that I know claimed that they saw ghost, why am I the only one who's missing out? The brain is a powerful thing, so I think the brain just processed what we believed or what we think that we are seeing, then relay that image to us.


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## Yil (Oct 19, 2017)

lidolinn said:


> I don't believe in what we can't see. So many people that I know claimed that they saw ghost, why am I the only one who's missing out? The brain is a powerful thing, so I think the brain just processed what we believed or what we think that we are seeing, then relay that image to us.


I am not too keen on that part either, especially considering ghost don't seem to demonstrate property of charge (easily proven with the argument of tangibility, which at large scale can be mostly attributed to chemical bounds), which means they should never collide with a photon in the first place. So what is it that we see? Of course if some what to mess with us creating a hologram or directly injecting information to eyes or a camera is not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## JavaScribe (Oct 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> I do believe in ghost as in passed-on mortals. Ancestral worship is actually very common until Christianity ruined everything, and Biology then get sweet revenge on Christianity, causing atheism to raise. Ghosts typically are not entirely pleasant but remember they were mortal once so you can trust them more than say other spirits.
> Personally I believe you get claimed by a deity you go to their afterlife (remember in Christianity all other gods are demons when they say you go to hell for not believing in god, which is just Christianity demonizing other religions), otherwise your current existence gets torn down and recycled.


Ok, I think you're thinking of Catholicism...


Yil said:


> Real people are definitely more threatening than an average spirit. There are many ways to resist a spirit but the only to deal with a psycho is kill them.


That's quite true.


plasturion said:


> Sure I do in Holy Spirit, but not only, however I think most popular paranormal phenomena can be simulated by evil spirits.
> I don't have to worry about this, but if someone don't feel safe one thing I can suggest is try to pray for the souls in Purgatory you let them close to God and they need that. Purgatory is not a place but state. You are doing angelic stuff trying this. You can intentional offer your time, work, abandon halloween. It's good pray to God through Virgin Mary. Rosary is best.


You're talking about Catholicism. I'll be honest here, most non-catholic denominations really don't know what to think about half of what you believe, aside from knowing that some beliefs in the Roman Catholic church were created as side effects of a power grab in the Middle Ages. I find some of the theology here... dubious.


Yil said:


> I think that's just some religions. Greeks were well aware that earth is round and rotates around the sun (with relatively accurate numbers, say within 10% using _very_ outdated equipments), and they never rejected mysticism.
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> And who is it that denies the existence of other things out there? Aetheist.
> --
> That does not mean the past is absolutely false and we have no foundation.


I'd like to second that.


azoreseuropa said:


> That is okay. We can make mistake understanding the bible.


One word. Exegesis. Try it.


azoreseuropa said:


> No, many churches keep Virgin Mary...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's Catholicism. Again.


G0R3Z said:


> There's plenty of passages implying that they should hate and kill. Deuteronomy 17 commands christians to kill non-believers by stoning them to death.


_Context._ It's important. Christians weren't around yet. Deuteronomy was part of the Torah, written to the Jews. Deuteronomy 17 was specifically telling the Israelites to kill those _among their own_ that were hateful towards the judge or priest in the court case. It never spoke of the Gentiles.

As for the original question; I believe there are things outside of the physical realm. I don't know if you'd call what I believe in "ghosts" per se, but I'm sure demonic interactions/encounters are often thought to be "ghost encounters" by the individuals involved.
They tend not to appear in first-world countries. If they were appearing right and left in the streets of D.C., people would be freaking out. Most people have forgotten about the possibility of a God. If you were the devil, why would you want to remind these people that there could be a God when most of them think they're perfectly fine without one?
I have heard stories of these things happening in third-world countries. Very few of them (could count them on my fingers), but the ones I can remember hearing about were eyewitness accounts from otherwise quite mentally stable individuals.
Now, I do think there are _plenty_ of incidences of people using "ghosts" or "demons" to explain away simple ignorance. I wouldn't be surprised if almost all recorded "ghost/demon encounters" were just ignorance-induced. But using this as proof against the existence of spiritual beings is an example of "the fallacy fallacy."


----------



## Yil (Oct 19, 2017)

JavaScribe said:


> Ok, I think you're thinking of Catholicism...
> 
> That's quite true.
> 
> ...


In ancient times, long before the old testament and before they ever reach Egypt, Jews used to be Polytheist. Then someone (presumably Moses, who was in line with Yahweh) wrote the old testament and Abrahamic religions devolve into today's hyper masculine state. Asherah, the wife of Yahweh, are shown to possess all traits of Jesus and a powerful Goddess, over 1500 BCE, and the skyfather of Jewish Pantheon El was the one associated with Genesis, and Asherah/ Yahweh are more inline with Adam and Eve. This ancient religion is called Canaanite, once common in Israel.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2017)

epickid37 said:


> They've spliced genes. No one has "created life." The amount of data in one DNA strand can contain the entire library of Congress, all the movies, and more. Man can't create this. They can modify it but man cannot create life


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-synthesize-bacteria-with-smallest-genome-yet/
Says "531,000-base, 473-gene"
A lot but plenty doable from what are essentially basic chemicals, ones which don't meet any definition of life commonly accepted, or certainly have no greater claim than plain old carbon, nitrogen and oxygen in the air.

A living creature, one which never knowingly evolved naturally (don't know if it ever likely would either but I have not read the full analysis of this one) was then assembled and seen to do life type things. Seems like man created a life form from whole cloth as it were.
If you want to try arguing that it followed a blueprint then you can try, don't know if I can accept that though.

Equally the "a lot of work" principle falls flat on its face time and time again, perhaps not as much as the related god of the gaps principle (we don't know how this works with current science therefore some god did it) but often enough -- merely sequencing a genome was once considered if not impossible than horrendously expensive, now it is cheap enough that you or I could probably have it done for money we could afford as individuals. Science is replete with similar examples across measurement, tolerances, computing power and more besides too. Earlier I gave an example of how mere organic chemistry was considered impossible outside of having life forms do it (a concept called essential vital force, also vitalism, see someone called Berzelius in the early/mid 1800s) and while in some ways it is still cheaper or more effective (my nanobots don't appear to be beating crispr) and this seems like a cousin to it.


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## DinohScene (Oct 19, 2017)

Pleng said:


> So... You spend a good amount of your time, here and in other threads, criticizing people for believing in ghosts and religion based, very reasonably, on the premise that there's no proof of their existence. Then you suddenly slip in an insinuating that you're absolutely sure of the existence of extra terrestrials?
> 
> Huh



Even microbial life is extra terrestrial life.
Besides, judging by the number of stars in the universe that have planets that are just right to support life, it would be hard to think that we're alone in the universe.

We just haven't found it yet.


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## EthanAddict (Oct 19, 2017)

No


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## Pleng (Oct 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Even microbial life is extra terrestrial life.



That's just splitting hairs for the sake of it..



> Besides, judging by the number of stars in the universe that have planets that are just right to support life, *it would be hard to think that we're alone in the universe.*



Just in the same way for it would be hard for some people to reason that there isn't a god or ghosts don't exist.



> We just haven't found it yet.



If just seems extremely odd to see somebody who persistently knocks religion, based on the premise that there's a lack of evidence to support them, being able to just as blindly state "well there must be alien life out there... there just _must_ be."


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## DinohScene (Oct 19, 2017)

Pleng said:


> That's just splitting hairs for the sake of it..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Multiple scientists back it up that it's unimaginable for earth to be the only planet to support life.
The vast majority of the human population immediately thinks that it must be intelligent and highly advanced in order for it to count as extra terrestrial life.
Plant life, grass, microbes.
Basic forms of life on other planets already is extra terrestrial life.

The probability of us being alone judging by the number of stars is low.

As for ghosts and gods.
I'm sorry but believing in higher powers is something out dated.
I've repeatedly said "If god exists, he may strike me down right now", I'm still alive and not struck down.
It's just something made up by people.


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## Pleng (Oct 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Multiple scientists back it up that it's unimaginable for earth to be the only planet to support life.
> The vast majority of the human population immediately thinks that it must be intelligent and highly advanced in order for it to count as extra terrestrial life.
> Plant life, grass, microbes.
> Basic forms of life on other planets already is extra terrestrial life.



Yes but when you said "we are not alone in the universe" you weren't referring to plant life. Has any plant life even been found outside of earth, anyway? Plus I'm sure that multiple scientists back up the opposite theory...



> The probability of us being alone judging by the number of stars is low.



The probability of winning the lottery is also very low; but people still win.
And you can play with stats all you like. You say that the number of starts out there make the probability of us being alone is very low. Somebody could easily counter that based on the number of stars we've encountered already that _haven't_ featured any real form of life, the probability of us being alone is in fact actually very high.



> As for ghosts and gods.
> I'm sorry but believing in higher powers is something out dated.
> I've repeatedly said "If god exists, he may strike me down right now", I'm still alive and not struck down.
> It's just something made up by people.



As are all current examples of alien existence. Fiction.


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## leon315 (Oct 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> I only believe in the holy spirit.


what is HOLY SPIRIT?


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## DinohScene (Oct 19, 2017)

Pleng said:


> Yes but when you said "we are not alone in the universe" you weren't referring to plant life. Has any plant life even been found outside of earth, anyway? Plus I'm sure that multiple scientists back up the opposite theory...



Humans forget that simple life is life.
It doesn't have to be complex.



> The probability of winning the lottery is also very low; but people still win.
> And you can play with stats all you like. You say that the number of starts out there make the probability of us being alone is very low. Somebody could easily counter that based on the number of stars we've encountered already that _haven't_ featured any real form of life, the probability of us being alone is in fact actually very high.



We only searched a tiny part of the universe.
All we do now is simple scans on planets.



> As are all current examples of alien existence. Fiction.


As are all examples of gods and ghosts, fiction.


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## dimmidice (Oct 19, 2017)

This entire thread is making my head hurt. Do people seriously believe in ghosts? Please say you're under 18.


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## Jayro (Oct 19, 2017)

I believe in ghosts, and hunt them in my free time. I grew up in a house that was haunted. My dog haunted us too for a while.


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## Pleng (Oct 19, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> > > It's just something made up by people.
> >
> >
> > As are all current examples of alien existence. Fiction.
> ...



Uhhh... yes. I just think it's a bit rich to consistently criticize others for believing their particular works of fiction when you also appear to have blind faith yourself


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## linuxares (Oct 19, 2017)

Nah, however I do believe in somekind of afterlife since something doesn't add up to why I have a conscious and at death it just disappears.


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## DinohScene (Oct 19, 2017)

Pleng said:


> Uhhh... yes. I just think it's a bit rich to consistently criticize others for believing their particular works of fiction when you also appear to have blind faith yourself



It's not blind faith, it's accepting the inevitable.


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## leonmagnus99 (Oct 19, 2017)

i kind of do, but i believe more in angels !
angelic ghosts?

anyways i feel like i was saved a couple of time from being overrun by a car..
i felt some slight surge of push as i was trying to cross the street just before i would step in , i was sort of pushed back.

it happened twice.

i am a klutz, now i always wait until there are no cars to be seen before i cross the street haha.

and well there was another thing that my auntie/her husband saw when they were driving from the village back to town, they drove night time and they had to stop suddenly because they saw alot of (ghost) people crossing the street somewhere in an outskirt area and they believe there was a cemetery nearby and those were their .. ghostly bodies (they were appearing all in white according to them).


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## linuxares (Oct 19, 2017)

Do ginger people produce and ghosts?


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## dimmidice (Oct 19, 2017)

Pleng said:


> Uhhh... yes. I just think it's a bit rich to consistently criticize others for believing their particular works of fiction when you also appear to have blind faith yourself


Not at all the same. Given how big the universe is and how life came to exist on this planet it would be virtually impossible for there to NOT be life somewhere out there. Am i saying we'll come across this life soon? Not at all. It's possible we'll never even find it. After all that's another effect of the size of the universe. But statistically there has to be life out there.

Now believing in ghosts and all that which has no basis in reality at all is nuts. Seriously the amount of people that seem to believe in it based on this thread has me worried. But i'm pretty sure most people are just joking around.


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## Deleted User (Oct 19, 2017)

leon315 said:


> what is HOLY SPIRIT?


The *Holy Spirit* (or*Holy* Ghost, from Old English gast, "*spirit*") is a member of The Trinity: The "Triune God" manifested as Father, Son, and *Holy Spirit*; each aspect itself being God.


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## TheGreek Boy (Oct 19, 2017)

of course i believe in ghosts


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## leon315 (Oct 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> The *Holy Spirit* (or*Holy* Ghost, from Old English gast, "*spirit*") is a member of The Trinity: The "Triune God" manifested as Father, Son, and *Holy Spirit*; each aspect itself being God.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> i expected that could be a meme, never thought that is as same as the one of the all catholic churches here


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## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2017)

leon315 said:


> what is HOLY SPIRIT?


It is when you fortify the communion wine to make communion port.


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-synthesize-bacteria-with-smallest-genome-yet/
> Says "531,000-base, 473-gene"
> A lot but plenty doable from what are essentially basic chemicals, ones which don't meet any definition of life commonly accepted, or certainly have no greater claim than plain old carbon, nitrogen and oxygen in the air.
> 
> ...





			
				scientific American said:
			
		

> an explosion in powerful ‘gene-editing’ techniques, which enable relatively easy and selective tinkering with genomes, raises a niggling question: why go to the trouble of making new life when you can simply tweak what already exists?


They didn't create life, they modified existing life to form something new. It's like building with legos, you can create whatever you want with the blocks, but you have to get the actual plastic bricks from somewhere else


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## Deleted member 408979 (Oct 19, 2017)

personally, I do believe in ghosts. Please, feel free to call me ignorant. I've just seen...and done...things.


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## LukeHasAWii (Oct 19, 2017)

Woah, an 8 page discussion about ghosts on gbatemp. Somehow controversial! Some people make good points about the existence of ghosts (or just the existence of the holy spirit) and there are also good counter-arguments. I never knew tempers cared this much about ghosts. Have a sp00ky Halloween by the way, everyone. And stay safe out there if you're still trick-or-treating.


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

i hope all people here read my reply:
in fact the existence of the ghost of the human spirit that had been living in the human body. then, when their die is not fair, their soul will be haunted, for example: there was murder in a house and one family died all. then when there are people who buy the house and the new inhabitants feel they are disturbed by the spirit of one family. there is also a second example: there was a man killed on a street. then after he died sometimes his spirits often disturb the car drivers even to the accident and died. and that is the example taken from the true story, and here I want to reveal that the ghost is actually there and we should not be afraid because of their presence, then we must believe in god so they can not bother us.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> The *Holy Spirit* (or*Holy* Ghost, from Old English gast, "*spirit*") is a member of The Trinity: The "Triune God" manifested as Father, Son, and *Holy Spirit*; each aspect itself being God.



Actually. there is no trinity in the bible. And God is not Jesus. Jesus is God's son. If Jesus was God, why did He say "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28? Jesus himself said: The Father is greater than I. Jesus says repeatedly that He is doing the Father’s will. 

Mark 13:32 Jesus said: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." So Jesus didnt know when and onl his Father know. So Jesus is not GOD!


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## animex2k9 (Oct 19, 2017)

I 100% do believe in Ghost since I've experienced seeing one. 

It was back then at my late grandma's house. I usually go there for a vacation for about a week or two when summer comes. I usually sleep with my cousin because his room is big. There are lots of antique items in his room, which I don't know if he collects it. There was this large whole body mirror on the side of his bed which gives me a chill whenever I see it. It's old and has that wood finish. One time, we had a blackout and sadly, I was the only one in the room at that time. I look for a light because it was pitch black back there. I've grabbed a flash light in the drawer and when I open it, BOOM! I was in front of the mirror and I saw a gruesome figure there. It was tall, maybe same height as mine, a male, and it looks bloody ugly. I was in a state of shock and can't even move an inch on my position. Luckily, the lights came on and there I still see the figure on the mirror.... and it was me..


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## TotalInsanity4 (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Actually. there is no trinity in the bible. And God is not Jesus. Jesus is God's son. If Jesus was God, why did He say "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28? Jesus himself said: The Father is greater than I. Jesus says repeatedly that He is doing the Father’s will.
> 
> Mark 13:32 Jesus said: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." So Jesus didnt know when and onl his Father know. So Jesus is not GOD!


There are a lot of typically accepted aspects of Christianity that have absolutely no basis in the Bible. Another good example is the story of Lucifer, the fallen Angel, and him becoming Satan. That story shows up nowhere in the Bible but is typically taught as though it were part of Genesis


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Actually. there is no trinity in the bible. And God is not Jesus. Jesus is God's son. If Jesus was God, why did He say "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28? Jesus himself said: The Father is greater than I. Jesus says repeatedly that He is doing the Father’s will.
> 
> Mark 13:32 Jesus said: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." So Jesus didnt know when and onl his Father know. So Jesus is not GOD!


yes! jesus is not a god. he only the son of god, like us. but i dont understand why alot of people saying: jesus is a god! lol.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> i hope all people here read my reply:
> in fact the existence of the ghost of the human spirit that had been living in the human body. then, when their die is not fair, their soul will be haunted, for example: there was murder in a house and one family died all. then when there are people who buy the house and the new inhabitants feel they are disturbed by the spirit of one family. there is also a second example: there was a man killed on a street. then after he died sometimes his spirits often disturb the car drivers even to the accident and died. and that is the example taken from the true story, and here I want to reveal that the ghost is actually there and we should not be afraid because of their presence, then we must believe in god so they can not bother us.



That's not what bible say. You are very confused. What you know about Ghost is related to Satan the Devil and his demons caused those spirit haunted. Nothing to do with God and his son Jesus. The bible didnt say anything about soul as ghosts or spirit. The bible mention Soul as Life. Look:


TotalInsanity4 said:


> There are a lot of typically accepted aspects of Christianity that have absolutely no basis in the Bible. Another good example is the story of Lucifer, the fallen Angel, and him becoming Satan. That story shows up nowhere in the Bible but is typically taught as though it were part of Genesis



No.. Without bible, then how do christianity understands about God and his son Jesus ? There is the story of the fallen Angel and he has a name but God wont reveal his name in the bible for he is not worth because he called him Satan the Devil which means Satan - Enemy, Adversary, Accuser and Devil means : Slanderer.



Sathya said:


> i hope all people here read my reply:
> in fact the existence of the ghost of the human spirit that had been living in the human body. then, when their die is not fair, their soul will be haunted, for example: there was murder in a house and one family died all. then when there are people who buy the house and the new inhabitants feel they are disturbed by the spirit of one family. there is also a second example: there was a man killed on a street. then after he died sometimes his spirits often disturb the car drivers even to the accident and died. and that is the example taken from the true story, and here I want to reveal that the ghost is actually there and we should not be afraid because of their presence, then we must believe in god so they can not bother us.



That's not what bible say. You are very confused. What you know about Ghost is related to Satan the Devil and his demons caused those spirit haunted. Nothing to do with God and his son Jesus. The bible didnt say anything about soul as ghosts or spirit. The bible mention Soul as Life. Look: the Bible says that “man became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7, King James). So clear that Soul means life.



Sathya said:


> yes! jesus is not a god. he only the son of god, like us. but i dont understand why alot of people saying: jesus is a god! lol.



Because they didnt read the bible but listen to the false priest in the church.. Jesus’ specific warning: “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many” (Matthew 24:4-5, King James Version).


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## Nah3DS (Oct 19, 2017)

I like MF Ghost


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> That's not what bible say. You are very confused. What you know about Ghost is related to Satan the Devil and his demons caused those spirit haunted. Nothing to do with God and his son Jesus. The bible didnt say anything about soul as ghosts or spirit. The bible mention Soul as Life. Look:
> 
> 
> No.. Without bible, then how do christianity understands about God and his son Jesus ? There is the story of the fallen Angel and he has a name but God wont reveal his name in the bible for he is not worth because he called him Satan the Devil which means Satan - Enemy, Adversary, Accuser and Devil means : Slanderer.
> ...


I mean the ghost of man who has not reincarnated, can still haunt wherever he died. if during his life he lives in faith in god, then his soul will not haunt, back again to god in heaven.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2017)

epickid37 said:


> They didn't create life, they modified existing life to form something new. It's like building with legos, you can create whatever you want with the blocks, but you have to get the actual plastic bricks from somewhere else



That is a very weak semantic argument from where I sit. Based on existing blueprint, sure (as opposed to maybe something with different chirality or even a fundamentally different base chemistry like https://www.coursera.org/learn/astrobiology/lecture/ekFbV/origins-of-life-alternative-chemistries ). It seems akin to arguing people did not create computers, merely arranged and doped some semiconductors such that it makes one. Or that humans did not make nuclear reactors because https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...ral-fission-reactors-in-gabon-western-africa/ exists.

Had they either force evolved or sprinkled a few genes in there and done something it is still very cool but you might have a leg to stand on there (for most other areas of science iterations on an existing item is commonly held to generate new things but biologically speaking it is more tricky). From where I see there they took some definitely non living chemicals (DNA* is fun and all but is not alive, http://www.atdbio.com/content/2/Molecular-weight-and-mass -- I have plastics more complicated than that, anybody in pharmacology certainly plays with more complex and I don't have living plastic or aspirin), assembled them and the resulting thing conformed to definitions of life.
Had they merely replicated an existing creature, either wholesale or some functional equivalent, then that might also be a lesser event but looking at the article they tried a few different things before they hit on a winning formula.

*If you are going to want to argue that as they did not use all base pairs and maybe the occasional premade sequence to get there then please help me to draw a line at when they stops counting.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> I mean the ghost of man who has not reincarnated, can still haunt wherever he died. if during his life he lives in faith in god, then his soul will not haunt, back again to god in heaven.



Really ? The bible didnt taught about not reincarnated and still haunt wherever he/she died. No.


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> That is a very weak semantic argument from where I sit. Based on existing blueprint, sure (as opposed to maybe something with different chirality or even a fundamentally different base chemistry like https://www.coursera.org/learn/astrobiology/lecture/ekFbV/origins-of-life-alternative-chemistries ). It seems akin to arguing people did not create computers, merely arranged and doped some semiconductors such that it makes one. Or that humans did not make nuclear reactors because https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...ral-fission-reactors-in-gabon-western-africa/ exists.
> 
> Had they either force evolved or sprinkled a few genes in there and done something it is still very cool but you might have a leg to stand on there (for most other areas of science iterations on an existing item is commonly held to generate new things but biologically speaking it is more tricky). From where I see there they took some definitely non living chemicals (DNA* is fun and all but is not alive, http://www.atdbio.com/content/2/Molecular-weight-and-mass -- I have plastics more complicated than that, anybody in pharmacology certainly plays with more complex and I don't have living plastic or aspirin), assembled them and the resulting thing conformed to definitions of life.
> Had they merely replicated an existing creature, either wholesale or some functional equivalent, then that might also be a lesser event but looking at the article they tried a few different things before they hit on a winning formula.
> ...


I don't know. I'm 14 and don't have all the answers


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Really ? The bible didnt taught about not reincarnated and still haunt wherever he/she died. No.


i dont understand what you mean. pls rply again.


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## fatsquirrel (Oct 19, 2017)

I saw a ghost and he told me 4.0.0 will be hacked. I believed


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

fatsquirrel said:


> I saw a ghost and he told me 4.0.0 will be hacked. I believed


pretty sure...................     LoL...................................


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> i dont understand what you mean. pls rply again.



Think about it. For example, at Genesis 3:19, we find God’s words to Adam after Adam and Eve disobeyed him. God said: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Adam was created from the dust. At death, he returned to the dust. That was God’s clear statement on the matter. So at death a person is not reborn as someone else but ceases to exist. Just as heat and cold, dry and wet, light and dark are opposites, death is the opposite of life. The dead are really dead! Isn’t that simple and logical?

The Bible contains eight eyewitness accounts of people being raised from the dead back to life on earth. These were cases of resurrection, not reincarnation. The ones brought back from the dead were immediately recognized by family and friends. In no case did the relatives need to search among newborns near and far to try and ascertain if one of the infants was the reincarnated soul of their dead loved one.—John 11:43-45.


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Think about it. For example, at Genesis 3:19, we find God’s words to Adam after Adam and Eve disobeyed him. God said: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Adam was created from the dust. At death, he returned to the dust. That was God’s clear statement on the matter. So at death a person is not reborn as someone else but ceases to exist. Just as heat and cold, dry and wet, light and dark are opposites, death is the opposite of life. The dead are really dead! Isn’t that simple and logical?
> 
> The Bible contains eight eyewitness accounts of people being raised from the dead back to life on earth. These were cases of resurrection, not reincarnation. The ones brought back from the dead were immediately recognized by family and friends. In no case did the relatives need to search among newborns near and far to try and ascertain if one of the infants was the reincarnated soul of their dead loved one.—John 11:43-45.



so whether a man whose life is not true, will be in hell forever after he died? if he can not go back to heaven anymore?


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> so whether a man whose life is not true, will be in hell forever after he died? if he can not go back to heaven anymore?



Good question.. Here:

Eternal torment would violate God’s justice.

 (Deuteronomy 32:4) When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Remember, God told him that he would simply be to pass out of existence -- Dust you are made of and to dust you will return. God would have been lying if he were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell. Bible itself didnt say anything about Hell. False church is lying to you. Surprise ? 

Remember.. God is love. He wouldn't do that to people!!! God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is really opposite to the Bible’s teaching that *“God is love.”*— 1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.

Hell/Sheoul/Hade meaning in hebrew and greek (Hellfire is wrong translate) and correct translation: Grave/Burial and it is match in the bible.. Nothing mentioned about hellfire and torment or God will be cruel. Make sense ? Bible itself said that God is love so he dont do that to us!

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, . . . for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Revised Standard Version.


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## wormdood (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Eternal torment would violate God’s justice.


so what happens then all the rapist and killers, do they as well get punished _on earth_ only, die and still go to heaven . . . so not only did he rape and kill little johnny doe, but john will still see them again (once they both die) because hey god "loves us all" no matter how far we stray


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## anhminh (Oct 19, 2017)

I would believe if I actually see one that aren't picture or video.


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Good question.. Here:
> 
> Eternal torment would violate God’s justice.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with it. although I am an Islamic person but I also like anything about the science of kindness. because from whichever source it is: jesus, muhamad or whatever, they follow the guidance of conscience so that whatever they reveal, to the true truth, that is the righteousness of god. because in the conscience is only god who lead us.sebenarnya not only those who can but we can also like them by following the guidance of conscience. so God can lead our lives.
so that we can get the guidance of God through conscience, then we must behave accordingly or in line with the truth of god. and through the guidance of the god will guide our life's behavior of holy peace and love, in line with God character.
and everything I expressed was based on my father's spiritual experience, through guidance of conscience. so we can all get that guidance or the guidance of god. because in the conscience there is no difference of religion anymore, all that mununtun us only one that is: God!


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Good question.. Here:
> 
> Eternal torment would violate God’s justice.
> 
> ...



the operative word here is JUST. God has destroyed entire cities because they were evil. he's a kind God, but he is also just, and can condemn people to hell


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sathya said:


> I totally agree with it. although I am an Islamic person but I also like anything about the science of kindness. because from whichever source it is: jesus, muhamad or whatever, they follow the guidance of conscience so that whatever they reveal, to the true truth, that is the righteousness of god. because in the conscience is only god who lead us.sebenarnya not only those who can but we can also like them by following the guidance of conscience. so God can lead our lives.
> so that we can get the guidance of God through conscience, then we must behave accordingly or in line with the truth of god. and through the guidance of the god will guide our life's behavior of holy peace and love, in line with God character.
> and everything I expressed was based on my father's spiritual experience, through guidance of conscience. so we can all get that guidance or the guidance of god. because in the conscience there is no difference of religion anymore, all that mununtun us only one that is: God!



I understand that you are an Islamic person and God love you. You are my brother too no matter what.


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## Sathya (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> I understand that you are an Islamic person and God love you. You are my brother too no matter what.


all right


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

epickid37 said:


> the operative word here is JUST. God has destroyed entire cities because they were evil. he's a kind God, but he is also just, and can condemn people to hell




No.. He has destroyed entire cities because they turned against God and God punished them for that. He is a kind and love God and helped them through the bible and some people still turn against him. That's why he removed them but condemn people to hell ? No. Read above what verse is telling you is why God is loved and he wont torment evil people to hell.. For what ? Evil people return to dust from where they are made of so they wont deserve to live forever.


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## APartOfMe (Oct 19, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> No.. He has destroyed entire cities because they turned against God and God punished them for that. He is a kind and love God and helped them through the bible and some people still turn against him. That's why he removed them but condemn people to hell ? No. Read above what verse is telling you is why God is loved and he wont torment evil people to hell.. For what ? Evil people return to dust from where they are made of so they wont deserve to live forever.


exactly, God sends people to hell because they turned against him.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 19, 2017)

epickid37 said:


> exactly, God sends people to hell because they turned against him.



You didnt read above did you ? GOd said in the bible.. NO.. NO HELL. Return to the dust where they came from so they will not have an everlasting life at all.


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## Deleted User (Oct 19, 2017)




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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> The treacherous and deceiving god Yahweh is no creator, for Jews have suffered since the birth of Jesus, and their old pantheons cast out, forgotten, replaced with the venomous bible.
> Asherah and El would like to have a word, false god.


And which part did you miss in the Bible that say's the Jews have suffered because they were responsible for the death of Jesus ? that they brought it upon themselves ? get your stuff right.
The Jews religion had fallen apart by then.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



azoreseuropa said:


> You didnt read above did you ? GOd said in the bible.. NO.. NO HELL. Return to the dust where they came from so they will not have an everlasting life at all.


Exactly. the Bible says the devil lures people to Hell, not that God sends them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



azoreseuropa said:


> Good question.. Here:
> 
> Eternal torment would violate God’s justice.
> 
> ...



Just to clarify this.....but when he said that, he meant the body would return to dust, which it does. not the soul. the soul will go to heaven or hell depending on how it lived.
According to the bible, the body and soul are two different entities. the body is controlled by the soul.


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## Axido (Oct 19, 2017)

What the heck is wrong with you? This is a thread about ghosts. Can't you take your conversation about the earliest science fiction book of mankind somewhere else?


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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 19, 2017)

Not even gonna bother arguing with you on that.


----------



## JavaScribe (Oct 20, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I'm sorry but believing in higher powers is something out dated.


It's been known for pretty much ever that the earth is round. Is believing the earth is round outdated?


DinohScene said:


> I've repeatedly said "If god exists, he may strike me down right now", I'm still alive and not struck down.
> It's just something made up by people.


If I say to my friend, "If you exist, kill me," and he doesn't kill me, does that mean he's just a figment of my imagination? He could be imaginary, but it doesn't mean he is.


azoreseuropa said:


> Eternal torment would violate God’s justice.


Of all things, you chose _justice_?


azoreseuropa said:


> Remember.. God is love. He wouldn't do that to people!!! God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is really opposite to the Bible’s teaching that *“God is love.”*— 1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.





azoreseuropa said:


> No.. He has destroyed entire cities because they turned against God and God punished them for that. He is a kind and love God and helped them through the bible and some people still turn against him. That's why he removed them but condemn people to hell ? No. Read above what verse is telling you is why God is loved and he wont torment evil people to hell.. For what ? Evil people return to dust from where they are made of so they wont deserve to live forever.


About that...


lcie nimbus said:


> Exactly. the Bible says the devil lures people to Hell, not that God sends them.


Yeah, that.


lcie nimbus said:


> Just to clarify this.....but when he said that, he meant the body would return to dust, which it does. not the soul. The soul will go to heaven or hell depending on how it lived.
> According to the Bible, the body and soul are two different entities. The body is controlled by the soul.


^^^


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> And which part did you miss in the Bible that say's the Jews have suffered because they were responsible for the death of Jesus ? that they brought it upon themselves ? get your stuff right.
> The Jews religion had fallen apart by then.



Before Moses Lead Jews out of Eygpt, before Jews even went to Eygpt and still live in Israel, they were Polytheist. Yahweh was not the head pantheon, merely serving under the supreme deity El, while he is married to Asherah, who is no less powerful. Back then Jews were so focused on Masculinity. Yahweh was a jealous murderer who rose to power by betraying both his wife and his lord, plaguing the Egyptian, and with the birth of Jesus failed his role as God of Jews.
Yahweh plagued Egypt, cause Jews to suffer when he stripped them away of their proper pantheon, and at last betray his own believer. Why would anyone believe in this demon who still plagues the world over any other Gods?



lcie nimbus said:


> Exactly. the Bible says the devil lures people to Hell, not that God sends them.



Also remember any other deity's realm is part of Hell by Christian standard.



lcie nimbus said:


> Just to clarify this.....but when he said that, he meant the body would return to dust, which it does. not the soul. the soul will go to heaven or hell depending on how it lived.
> According to the bible, the body and soul are two different entities. the body is controlled by the soul.



As is many other religions.


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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Before Moses Lead Jews out of Eygpt, before Jews even went to Eygpt and still live in Israel, they were Polytheist. Yahweh was not the head pantheon, merely serving under the supreme deity El, while he is married to Asherah, who is no less powerful. Back then Jews were so focused on Masculinity. Yahweh was a jealous murderer who rose to power by betraying both his wife and his lord, plaguing the Egyptian, and with the birth of Jesus failed his role as God of Jews.
> Yahweh plagued Egypt, cause Jews to suffer when he stripped them away of their proper pantheon, and at last betray his own believer. Why would anyone believe in this demon who still plagues the world over any other Gods?


i'm gonna go ahead and ask which work of fiction you got this shit from ? The Da Vinci Code maybe ?


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## RustInPeace (Oct 20, 2017)

I believe in this guy more.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> i'm gonna go ahead and ask which work of fiction you got this shit from ? The Da Vinci Code maybe ?


No. Just spend a little time searching Asherah. Yahweh's later doings are recorded in the Bible and our own history. Jews are miserable among Christians and Yahweh has one job to keep Jews living a good life and failed that to gain new followers.


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## jDSX (Oct 20, 2017)

Yes I have the proof actually seriously


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

RustInPeace said:


> I believe in this guy more.


Intelligence cannot replace sensibility.


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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> No. Just spend a little time searching Asherah.


And read what someone decided to post on the Internet ? god you are an idiot. if you actually read the Bible, you'd know that this Yahweh you're going off about is one of the false gods the Jews worshipped when they strayed from their faith in Canaan. Not GOD.


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## RustInPeace (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Intelligence cannot replace sensibility.



Well I can see this thread is too serious for me.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> And read what someone decided to post on the Internet ? god you are an idiot. if you actually read the Bible, you'd know that this Yahweh you're going off about is one of the false gods the Jews worshipped when they strayed from their faith in Canaan. Not GOD.


So you are implying Jesus is the son of El?


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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> So you are implying Jesus is the son of El?


No Jesus is the son of GOD, the other deities you've been bringing up are false idols, created and worshipped by the Canaanites. and far as I know, the Hebrews called GOD Jenova, not Yahweh. Jenova literally means "God" in Hebrew.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> No Jesus is the son of GOD, the other deities you've been bringing up are false idols, created and worshipped by the Canaanites. and far as I know, the Hebrews called GOD Jenova, not Yahweh. Jenova literally means "God" in Hebrew.


These false idols have been around much longer than Christianity. Also how is water walking, resurrection and healing supposed to prove divinity? Not impressive enough to be worshiped.
How the devil's image is close to that of Poseidon to demonize the Greek pantheon?


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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> These false idols have been around much longer than Christianity. Also how is water walking, resurrection and healing supposed to prove divinity? Not impressive enough to be worshiped.


listen, we can sit here and argue about this all day...but here's my opinion.
Take it and shove it up your arse.
not impressive enough to warrant divinity ? what do you and I even know about that, besides what we've read in books or comics ? nothing. you go ahead and set your standards by reading fiction, and i'll stick to real life. meaning i'll worship the guy that'll get me into heaven, not whatever I think is the most powerful or the coolest one on the Wikipedia pages.
Have a good life.


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## DarthDub (Oct 20, 2017)

A ghost shakes my bed every night.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> listen, we can sit here and argue about this all day...but here's my opinion.
> Take it and shove it up your arse.
> not impressive enough to warrant divinity ? what do you and I even know about that, besides what we've read in books or comics ? nothing. you go ahead and set your standards by reading fiction, and i'll stick to real life. meaning i'll worship the guy that'll get me into heaven, not whatever I think is the most powerful or the coolest one on the Wikipedia pages.
> Have a good life.


If you Christians stop belittling ancestral worship and Paganism I will definitely stop. Also you start posting bible verses on a relatively irrelevant topic about ghosts.
Also in my home contury's lore any human with sufficient training can pull off much better than Jesus. And I will always trust a ghost than an angel cause I know I have less chance of being fucked over by a former mortal than a spirit.


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## Chary (Oct 20, 2017)

lcie nimbus said:


> the soul will go to heaven or hell depending on how it lived.


I can't believe I'm posting on this thread, let alone in an off tracks religion debate, but just cuz it's driving me crazy, Christianity, at least, dictates it's not how you lived or what you did in life; it's your faith in Jesus that'll get you to heaven, so says the Bible.


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## VinsCool (Oct 20, 2017)

I do not believe in ghosts.


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## DarthDub (Oct 20, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> I do not believe in ghosts.


You better believe. :eyes:


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## Hells Malice (Oct 20, 2017)

*walks into a thread about ghosts*
"Oh this'll be intere-"
*gbatemp starting another fucking religion debate like morons*
*walks out*


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> I do not believe in ghosts.


But furry spirits are all over the place in Asian lore. Japan revere them as naughty gods, and China have a more negative light on them cause Chinese focus more on ancestor worship and like to demonize other spirits.


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## Sathya (Oct 20, 2017)

Hells Malice said:


> *walks into a thread about ghosts*
> "Oh this'll be intere-"
> *gbatemp starting another fucking religion debate like morons*
> *walks out*


if you dont believe ghost, if you die you will be a ghost


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## Deleted User (Oct 20, 2017)

wormdood said:


> dark is the absence of light . . . how do you measure that?)


are you aware that dark is just a form of light average ppl cant see? also are you aware that dark is the only thing able to visibly move faster than light?


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 20, 2017)

I feel that ghosts/spirits/etc do exist. I don't have proof, nor do I claim it to be a fact, but I do know that there a bunch of crazy shit that happens in the universe, much that we never knew could be possible, so....


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

DiscostewSM said:


> I feel that ghosts/spirits/etc do exist. I don't have proof, nor do I claim it to be a fact, but I do know that there a bunch of crazy shit that happens in the universe, much that we never knew could be possible, so....


I feel like I had more peace knowing that everything associated with humans, religion, spirituality and all that is in the end insignificant, and I can divert more time to more important stuff like family and work cause whatever I do does not matter.


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## DKB (Oct 20, 2017)

Sleep paralysis feels like I'm seeing ghosts in real life. But, I do.


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## LongDongSilver (Oct 20, 2017)

wormdood said:


> wrong you are not aware of consciousness but rather due to consciousness you are aware . . .
> there is a reason its called the "visible light spectrum" (how silly of humans to decide that tools that they developed to see light can see light in all its variations) . . . and how does one "measure" light exactly?dark is the absence of light . . . how do you measure that?
> prove it (in other words thats an opinion not a proven fact)


Damn bro you must understand rick and morty


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## Deleted User (Oct 20, 2017)

I don't think I really believe in ghosts.

On the topic of religion since this thread has become another argument about religion, I believe there might be something that could be seen as being _like_ a god out there, but I can't say for sure. Maybe like, aliens that somehow influenced evolution of life here on Earth in some way.
Also, I _kinda_ believe in reincarnation as a possibility. I believe that maybe our conscience travels to an alternate universe when we die, but we don't retain any memories from any past lives or anything. At most I'd say that past lives could possibly leave an imprint on our conscience that can determine our personality and stuff like that. For the most part it's like you're a brand new person.
I wouldn't say I _for sure, 100%_ believe in any of those things though.


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## Sathya (Oct 20, 2017)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I don't think I really believe in ghosts.
> 
> On the topic of religion since this thread has become another argument about religion, I believe there might be something that could be seen as being _like_ a god out there, but I can't say for sure. Maybe like, aliens that somehow influenced evolution of life here on Earth in some way.
> Also, I _kinda_ believe in reincarnation as a possibility. I believe that maybe our conscience travels to an alternate universe when we die, but we don't retain any memories from any past lives or anything. At most I'd say that past lives could possibly leave an imprint on our conscience that can determine our personality and stuff like that. For the most part it's like you're a brand new person.
> I wouldn't say I _for sure, 100%_ believe in any of those things though.


ok. the reincarnation does exist. when we are born again, we have brought our previous bad karma in the past. well in our present life we will finish our bad karma from previous life. that is reincarnation. when our souls are not yet pure then we will be reborn until our souls are holy and return with god.


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## linuxares (Oct 20, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> I do not believe in ghosts.


That's what a ghost would say! I'm on to you!


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## console (Oct 20, 2017)

I believe in ghosts.  Both holy spirits and paranormal spirits.

It not going away. still forever on our home planets.

When I was kid like around age 2 - 7 can see real ghost. Also when I was in my bed with my parents during night. I saw two glow red eyes in windows it scare me and cover bed sheet over my head. Also I saw bright woman stand in hall stare at me in my bed, then I cover my head with bed sheets.

It can happen to anyone who experience ghosts everywhere.

My sister told me about on Amazon channel from Roku, Amityville Horror. I never saw that before. It's based on true story. No fake story. Answers are already there on YouTube (search: Amityville Horror).

I know what my friend told me. Evil spell can anywhere in dolls, antiques, potteries, boxes, Ouija board, necklaces, etc to open backdoor to let spirit go in and out without our permission.

Lucky, it don't hurt us so bad. Be careful and check to see which things are moved or something on wrong place try to scare us and people.

I know they are try to scare babies and kids at night time.

It not going away, still in our home planet, still happen everywhere and no stop. 

That is why we must have holy cross to hang up on wall to prevent bad spirits. Also Bible on tables or around near bed should be more safe to ward bad spirit off from us.

My sister message:

Yes mom had a lot of bad spirits in that house. They shake the bed come into my dolls. They even touch me as a child. Time bless that house with sage and prayer. I feel ghost all the time they can turn off lights, tv and try hard to scare you. God is more powerful .The bad spirits can move things as well. Me and my kids had some bad experience with bad spirits. We blessed our home with prayer and sage all over the house. Yes spirits are real they can try to scare you but God stronger protect us. Even things from other people have spirits attached to them. So its so easy bring spirits in a home. So be careful buying old things mirrors and etc.


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## Pleng (Oct 20, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> It's not blind faith, it's accepting the inevitable.



Exactly what I'd expect to hear for somebody being pulled up on religious beliefs...



dimmidice said:


> Not at all the same. Given how big the universe is and how life came to exist on this planet it would be virtually impossible for there to NOT be life somewhere out there. Am i saying we'll come across this life soon? Not at all. It's possible we'll never even find it. After all that's another effect of the size of the universe. But statistically there has to be life out there.



No, statistically there does NOT have to be life out there. We can only statistically "prove" the non-existance of life out there, as we've searched an not found. There are no statistics that can prove the inevitability of life existing elsewhere; because there's been none found in all the searching we've done. You can make all the assumptions you like and preach all you want; but based on what we've found so far there's nothing that backs up alien life being an inevitability.


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## dimmidice (Oct 20, 2017)

Pleng said:


> No, statistically there does NOT have to be life out there. We can only statistically "prove" the non-existance of life out there, as we've searched an not found. There are no statistics that can prove the inevitability of life existing elsewhere; because there's been none found in all the searching we've done. You can make all the assumptions you like and preach all you want; but based on what we've found so far there's nothing that backs up alien life being an inevitability.


That's not how statistics work at all.


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## Youkai (Oct 20, 2017)

When I was a Kid I was a little bit scared after I thought that I saw a ghose of some old military dude on his horse in my room ... it looked like these french guys from the french revolution ...

Not much before or after (not sure anymore) I was 100% sure that I was able to fly, I went up inside the room until I bumped my ass on the ceiling.

Now I am pretty sure both of it were just dreams, but when I was young and told my dad I was really really sure that it happened and that it was no dream at all.


Still sometimes when everything is dark I have the feeling that there is something or someone and I am a tiny little bit scared which is why I usually do not open my rooms door (makes me feel save when the door is closed even if its not locked) but than again I don't really belive in Ghosts ... stupid to be scared of something you don't believe exists but yeah its not really beeing scared but having a feeling that is not good sometimes.


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## Pleng (Oct 20, 2017)

dimmidice said:


> That's not how statistics work at all.



Uh yes... yes it is.
Out of all the planets we've visited, 0% of them have had life forms on them. That is a statistic that you cannot argue with; otherwise known as a fact.
If you want to count the probability of alien life, that's the only statistic you have.

Saying "but space is huge, there are so many planets out there so statistically there must be one with life on it" is ridiculous. There are thousands and millions of transistors on the planet. That fact alone doesn't make the possibility of me ordering a transistor from ebay and receiving a chicken instead particularly high.


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## rensenware (Oct 20, 2017)

I don't believe in anything supernatural. There's no convincing evidence for it.


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## Sathya (Oct 20, 2017)

why alot western people not believe a ghost? ghost is real!


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

Pleng said:


> Uh yes... yes it is.
> Out of all the planets we've visited, 0% of them have had life forms on them. That is a statistic that you cannot argue with; otherwise known as a fact.
> If you want to count the probability of alien life, that's the only statistic you have.
> 
> Saying "but space is huge, there are so many planets out there so statistically there must be one with life on it" is ridiculous. There are thousands and millions of transistors on the planet. That fact alone doesn't make the possibility of me ordering a transistor from ebay and receiving a chicken instead particularly high.


Stats merely suggest no opposing sample is present. You will need proper arguement and use logic to prove an arguement. However, one sample that suggest otherwise immediately disprove an arguement. Never substitute Stats for logic or mathematics.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sathya said:


> why alot western people not believe a ghost? ghost is real!


White people loses all spirituality after the corruption caused by Christianity and the following revenge from Science lead by Biology, which cauae them to disbelieve in anything associated with mysticism. By the time the church is roved from power many thing are lost.


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## Sathya (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Stats merely suggest no opposing sample is present. You will need proper arguement and use logic to prove an arguement. However, one sample that suggest otherwise immediately disprove an arguement. Never substitute Stats for logic or mathematics.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


because they often rely on their mind to think anything. even god they think, they translate only with their minds.
but god must we feel through conscience, not we think.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

Sathya said:


> because they often rely on their mind to think anything. even god they think, they translate only with their minds.
> but god must we feel through conscience, not we think.


Then how can you be certain the deity reflected by the bible is truly GOD? I do believe in a creator, but the Christian god is both lacking in power and in wisdom.
But yes, intelligence cannot justify sensibility.


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## Sathya (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Then how can you be certain the deity reflected by the bible is truly GOD? I do believe in a creator, but the Christian god is both lacking in power and in wisdom.
> But yes, intelligence cannot justify sensibility.


can you post again? I dont understand.


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## Pacheko17 (Oct 20, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> Nope i dont believe in ghosts. But i do believe that beings aside from humans exist out there.


Yes, like dogs and cats.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

Sathya said:


> can you post again? I dont understand.


How can you be sure the practices Christian use today can lead to GOD? Most other creation myth greatly surpass those of Christianity but at the same time treat human as just the current leading species.


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## gameboy (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> White people loses all spirituality after the corruption caused by Christianity
> .



EXACTLY

the earth is no longer in balance because people have lost all spirituality. each race was to have a purpose in keeping balance amonst all living and non living things.

white-settle demons
asian-calm human spirits
native americans- spirituality with the land
blacks- something with voodoo and hudoo

just part of a theory mine


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## Sathya (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> How can you be sure the practices Christian use today can lead to GOD? Most other creation myth greatly surpass those of Christianity but at the same time treat human as just the current leading species.


I believe that all the expression of God's goodness and truth is the source of one, the god. so in fact we do not need to follow any religion, but we just follow the guidance of conscience. because in guidance of conscience, God will guide us. so indeed in his many translations the Bible only makes us confused and contradict each other.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gameboy said:


> EXACTLY
> 
> the earth is no longer in balance because people have lost all spirituality. each race was to have a purpose in keeping balance amonst all living and non living things.
> 
> ...



because many people who only attach importance to their world they violate the law of righteousness of god with various egos in their world. they are not aware that they are all originally souls not bodies. but they often attach importance to the body. but life is only temporary and the world they reach is not beneficial for their souls.


----------



## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

Sathya said:


> I believe that all the expression of God's goodness and truth is the source of one, the god. so in fact we do not need to follow any religion, but we just follow the guidance of conscience. because in guidance of conscience, God will guide us. so indeed in his many translations the Bible only makes us confused and contradict each other.


I fear Christianity will soon take that possibility away from us, through both deception and more lethal methods.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sathya said:


> I believe that all the expression of God's goodness and truth is the source of one, the god. so in fact we do not need to follow any religion, but we just follow the guidance of conscience. because in guidance of conscience, God will guide us. so indeed in his many translations the Bible only makes us confused and contradict each other.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


In one oddest religions, good means balance, and evil means imbalance, and distinction and violence, even about light and dark, are seen as evil.
Do you believe righteousness can be separated from sensibility?


----------



## plasturion (Oct 20, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> That is okay. We can make mistake understanding the bible.
> 
> No, many churches keep Virgin Mary in present time and bible mention that Virgin Mary is no more for she had 4 sons after first son Jesus was born total of five sons and the bible mention that she had several daughters but didnt say how many, thought. She was just Jesus's mother that God choose her to give a birth baby Jesus. Jesus himself said that we shall worship his God father through Jesus's name and no idols including Rosary are allowed according to God's law of Ten Commandments. Many churches ignored God's law and have many idols as well as Jesus idolatry in the churches including worship "Virgin Mary" idolatry also. That's incorrect.



May I ask your opinion about people who survived atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in miracle way?
They were asked by an angel to pray on rosary and we don't know nothing about any other people who survived saved by promise of God with different angels requests. There's many open questions here I know, not best example anyway I don't see much idolatry in common rosary prayer, imo it's very usable for contemplate difference between human nature and God's role in his life. If I remember rosary was the thing that repleced idolatry of nature some time ago (that's why roses were choosen). However I don't see anything bad in limited idolatry. It's natural to like something and looks for hints and guides.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

plasturion said:


> May I ask your opinion about people who survived atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in miracle way?
> They were asked by an angel to pray on rosary and we don't know nothing about any other people who survived saved by promise of God with different angels requests. There's many open questions here I know, not best example anyway I don't see much idolatry in common rosary prayer, imo it's very usable for contemplate difference between human nature and God's role in his life. If I remember rosary was the thing that repleced idolatry of nature some time ago (that's why roses were choosen). However I don't see anything bad in limited idolatry. It's natural to like something and looks for hints and guides.


Japan is easily the most anti Christian country being very pagan and less than 1 percent Christian (which they despise).
Abomb is necessary to stop ww2, and Japan is reported to be using Bacterial weapon and toxin in addition to being ruthless killer (let's just say Nazi is very honorable compared to Japanese). Also their royalty is said to be descendant of their own god so definitely nothing to do with Christianity here.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 20, 2017)

plasturion said:


> May I ask your opinion about people who survived atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in miracle way?
> They were asked by an angel to pray on rosary and we don't know nothing about any other people who survived saved by promise of God with different angels requests. There's many open questions here I know, not best example anyway I don't see much idolatry in common rosary prayer, imo it's very usable for contemplate difference between human nature and God's role in his life. If I remember rosary was the thing that repleced idolatry of nature some time ago (that's why roses were choosen). However I don't see anything bad in limited idolatry. It's natural to like something and looks for hints and guides.



Can't discuss here for this thread is all about ghosts and not about the religious.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> Can't discuss here for this thread is all about ghosts and not about the religious.


Would you trust a ghost more than other spirits?


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## GBAer (Oct 20, 2017)

I was once haunted by 2 gay ghosts.


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

GBAer said:


> I was once haunted by 2 gay ghosts.


Did they try to rape you? Damn Gay men who steal boy's virginity.


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## spotanjo3 (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> Would you trust a ghost more than other spirits?



Good question.


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## digipimp75 (Oct 20, 2017)

Always believe a ghost.  They cannot tell a lie.


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## EthanAddict (Oct 20, 2017)

There is no evidence that ghosts/gods/whatever exists. If I don't directly/indirectly see it, I won't believe in it, thus the word "believe"


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 20, 2017)

i believe that a 3DS made this world, and the devil is Switch


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> i believe that a 3DS made this world, and the devil is Switch


But what is the wii u then?


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> But what is the wii u then?


wii u is the failed angel


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## Yil (Oct 20, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> wii u is the failed angel


But the Wii and DS? Did the world reset?


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## Abu_Senpai (Oct 20, 2017)

Yil said:


> But what is the wii u then?



Dont forget the N64,GC,GBA,WII,and the NES + SNES. 

And the other consoles and handhelds that Ninty has made:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_video_game_consoles


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 20, 2017)

well.... i just had a 3DS so i can understand 3DS
XD


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## Sathya (Oct 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Japan is easily the most anti Christian country being very pagan and less than 1 percent Christian (which they despise).
> Abomb is necessary to stop ww2, and Japan is reported to be using Bacterial weapon and toxin in addition to being ruthless killer (let's just say Nazi is very honorable compared to Japanese). Also their royalty is said to be descendant of their own god so definitely nothing to do with Christianity here.


we should not consider Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism to be wrong. or the best way to god only follow the religion of christian or islam only. they can feel god not only from religion but from conscience. so any religion does not matter, even people living without religion can also return to god.


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## Yil (Oct 21, 2017)

Sathya said:


> we should not consider Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism to be wrong. or the best way to god only follow the religion of christian or islam only. they can feel god not only from religion but from conscience. so any religion does not matter, even people living without religion can also return to god.


Aye, but perhaps when you truly meet GOD the truth might not be as you imagined. As laws themselves becomes simpler, the quantity they include becomes greater until nothing describes everything. In that sense righteousness may no longer hold the same value as we do now.
In fact, I do believe in a supreme being up there. But so many things getting in the way of sensibility.


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## Sathya (Oct 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Aye, but perhaps when you truly meet GOD the truth might not be as you imagined. As laws themselves becomes simpler, the quantity they include becomes greater until nothing describes everything. In that sense righteousness may no longer hold the same value as we do now.
> In fact, I do believe in a supreme being up there. But so many things getting in the way of sensibility.


because often humans are only concerned with his ego, with reason human is imperfect. then people often ignore the truth of god. but that does not mean we keep ignoring it but we have to start from now to follow the truth instead of our ego


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## Gnarmagon (Oct 21, 2017)

Hmm I am pretty sure I saw some Years ago when I was like 5 a Ghost or smth. like that:

My Dad told us (me and my brother who shared a room) a "GoodNight" Story and when I remember it correctly we sat in my Bed and the Bed of my Brother (above mine) (in Germany it's called "high Bed") was empty. Suddenly there came a black blanket behind me and I ran away.... (my Brother and Dad didn't see anything)
Also when I saw it it already disappeared XD

You can believe me or not but I don't even trust myself in this story  (I dunno why I remember something that happend 10 Years ago lol)


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## Pacheko17 (Oct 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> But the Wii and DS? Did the world reset?


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## GBAer (Oct 21, 2017)

Yil said:


> Did they try to rape you? Damn Gay men who steal boy's virginity.





Yil said:


> Did they try to rape you? Damn Gay men who steal boy's virginity.


Yes the did rape me. They put the willies up me.


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## RedBlueGreen (Oct 23, 2017)

I believed a ghost once. It told me it gave me the power to walk through walls. It lied.


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## Sathya (Oct 25, 2017)

Chary said:


> I can't believe I'm posting on this thread, let alone in an off tracks religion debate, but just cuz it's driving me crazy, Christianity, at least, dictates it's not how you lived or what you did in life; it's your faith in Jesus that'll get you to heaven, so says the Bible.


anyone have a faith. but christiani people must believe, Jesus is not a god!


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## TVL (Oct 25, 2017)

Nah, they are always lying. Don't trust them!


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## Sathya (Oct 25, 2017)

TVL said:


> Nah, they are always lying. Don't trust them!


what you mean?


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## Thirty3Three (Oct 25, 2017)

Believe in a ghost? Yeah. His name is George and I believe in him! He can do anything he sets his ghost-mind to!


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## Yil (Oct 25, 2017)

Sathya said:


> anyone have a faith. but christiani people must believe, Jesus is not a god!


That said, he has demonstrated feat beyond average human. Then again people are easily impressed.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Thirty3Three said:


> Believe in a ghost? Yeah. His name is George and I believe in him! He can do anything he sets his ghost-mind to!


Including reconstructing his body?


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## Thirty3Three (Oct 25, 2017)

Yil said:


> That said, he has demonstrated feat beyond average human. Then again people are easily impressed.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


NO! NOT THAT! >


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## blockman765 (Oct 26, 2017)

Sathya said:


> I believe a ghost. any1 here have a experince about ghost?


No, I don't personally believe in ghost. Sadly I have not an experience about ghost either.


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## Sathya (Feb 18, 2020)




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## DinohScene (Feb 18, 2020)

Please don't necrobump.


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