# George Floyd bodycam footage leaks



## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

What do you make of the new footage?



The link bellow lists reasons on how charges against the cops may be dropped.

https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911


George Floyd was experiencing cardiopulmonary and psychological distress _minutes before_ he was placed on the ground, let alone had a knee to his neck.


The Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) allows the use of neck restraint on suspects who actively resist arrest, and George Floyd actively resisted arrest on two occasions, including immediately prior to neck restraint being used.


The officers were recorded on their body cams assessing George Floyd as suffering from “excited delirium syndrome” (ExDS), a condition which the MPD considers an extreme threat to both the officers and the suspect. A white paper used by the MPD acknowledges that ExDS suspects may die _irrespective _of force involved. The officers’ response to this situation was in line with MPD guidelines for ExDS.


Restraining the suspect on his or her abdomen (prone restraint) is a common tactic in ExDS situations, and the white paper used by the MPD instructs the officers to control the suspect until paramedics arrive.


Floyd’s autopsy revealed a potentially lethal concoction of drugs — not just a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl, but also methamphetamine. Together with his history of drug abuse and two serious heart conditions, Floyd’s condition was exceptionally and unusually fragile.


Chauvin’s neck restraint is unlikely to have exerted a dangerous amount of force to Floyd’s neck. Floyd is shown on video able to lift his head and neck, and a robust study on double-knee restraints showed a median force exertion of approximately approximately 105lbs.

What do you make of all this? Do you think the officers will get charged? Or will the charges be dropped?


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

My opinion is I don't know.

I think the officers actions were wrong. But the were apparantly following the guidelines of the MPD rules.  And the rules I think are bad as officers aren't medically trained to properly judge a ExDS situation. 

If they can prove that they were intentionally trying to kill geroge floyd then the officers will get charged.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

he knelt on floyd's neck for 8 minutes
even if he came at them with a fucking knife, once he was restrained, chauvin continued to kneel on his neck, despite floyd's assertions that he couldn't breathe

this is not relevant


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Sounds like a cover up attempt to me. The footage is enough proof alone I don't care what the documents or any piece of paper says.
The man was already restrained under a life threatening situation. There was no need to be on his neck if he was handcuffed.


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> he knelt on floyd's neck for 8 minutes
> even if he came at them with a fucking knife, once he was restrained, chauvin continued to kneel on his neck, despite floyd's assertions that he couldn't breathe
> 
> this is not relevant


Probably a cover up by the police. But it might be enough to exonerate them in court.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Probably a cover up by the police. But it might be enough to exonerate them in court.


cops were exonerated in that case where the officer gunned down an unarmed crying dude on the ground
that cop got temporarily rehired secretly so he could get a disability pension
they don't need a cover up to be exonerated, my guy
the fix was in before you were born



MasterJ360 said:


> Sounds like a cover up attempt to me. The footage is enough proof alone I don't care what the documents or any piece of paper says.
> The man was already restrained under a life threatening situation. There was no need to be on his neck if he was handcuffed.


who to believe, the murderers or your lying eyes


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> he knelt on floyd's neck for 8 minutes
> even if he came at them with a fucking knife, once he was restrained, chauvin continued to kneel on his neck, despite floyd's assertions that he couldn't breathe
> 
> this is not relevant


8 min was too long. But if they can prove that they weren't putting too much force on his neck and that the cause of death was from the dangerous amount of drugs in Floyd's system. Then they may get exonerated.

It seems to me that too much force was applied. There may have been a moment floyd was able to lift his neck which indicates not too much force was used, but more force may have been put on his neck afterwards which caused his death.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> cops were exonerated in that case where the officer gunned down an unarmed crying dude on the ground
> that cop got temporarily rehired secretly so he could get a disability pension
> they don't need a cover up to be exonerated, my guy
> the fix was in before you were born
> ...


We can debate corrupted justice all day, but if takes more than 2 cops to handle 1 handcuffed person resulting death I think your eyes and common sense need checking. He pleaded he couldn't breath and look what happen to him.... If these cops don't get charged we are looking at State of Emergency riots.


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## Deleted User (Aug 5, 2020)

George Floyd is arrested and hes singing like a bird.  Its game over.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

MasterJ360 said:


> We can debate corrupted justice all day but if takes more than 2 cops to handle 1 handcuffed person resulting death I think your eyes and common sense need checking. He pleased he couldn't breath and look what happen to him.... If these cops don't get charged we are looking at State of Emergency riots.


i guess i need to be more obvious


Darth Meteos said:


> who to believe, the people who murdered george floyd saying "b-but it didn't happen" or the literal footage that shows the murder taking place


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> cops were exonerated in that case where the officer gunned down an unarmed crying dude on the ground
> that cop got temporarily rehired secretly so he could get a disability pension
> they don't need a cover up to be exonerated, my guy
> the fix was in before you were born
> ...


I don't think that will happen with this floyd case because alot of people want to see Chauvin convicted and charged with murder.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

SG854 said:


> I don't think that will happen with this floyd case because alot of people want to see Chauvin convicted and charged with murder.


oh my sweet summer child
you think protests matter to these people?
you really think this is a representative democracy?
they'll charge him with first-degree murder, then his lawyers will argue he didn't meant to, swear on your life, guv!
then he'll get a not guilty to the first degree murder charge, and he'll get a slap on the wrist.
the cops and the media will say "look, he's been fired, and his wrist is awful red from that slap! another win for the police and justice!"

_And nothing will change._
Sure, there'll be placations, and some places might even defund the police! But wide-reaching, systemic change? When it's between Fascist Don and Republican Joe? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Cute.


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

In the video Floyd was also saying that he couldn't breath even before they placed his knee on his neck, when he was in the cop car. And his shortness of breath seems to be caused by the drugs he took.

They can use in court that the cops may have thought his complaints of not being able to breath was from the drugs he took and not because of the pressure they put on his neck.

I'm not saying this is what I agree with, but I'm just throwing out there what they could use in court to defend the cops.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> oh my sweet summer child
> you think protests matter to these people?
> you really think this is a representative democracy?
> they'll charge him with first-degree murder, then his lawyers will argue he didn't meant to, swear on your life, guv!
> ...


No need to be an asshole. And don't be so sure of yourself. And if what you said is what will happen doesn't prove anything. Cops do get charged. There may be corruption in the system where cops get away. But you never know if this will be a corrupted case or not. I'm not going to pretend that I can judge future events or know how everything will go.


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## Xzi (Aug 5, 2020)

Fuck around and find out, that's all I got to say.  If you think the protests and riots as a result of this murder have been bad up until now, try letting this pig walk away scot-free.  Motherfucker will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his (presumably short) life.  No justice, no peace.


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

For this one I'm going to step in the side lines, and not give much input besides what I've already said and see what people will say about this and what information they find.

And please don't talk about how Floyd was a criminal or trump or socialism. Keep it to the topic and keep it to evidence you can find if the cops did intentionally try to kill floyd, or how they will manipulating the system and evidence to get away free of charge, or if you believe they are innocent.


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Fuck around and find out, that's all I got to say.  If you think the protests and riots as a result of this murder have been bad up until now, try letting this pig walk away scot-free.  Motherfucker will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his (presumably short) life.  No justice, no peace.


Ya his life is screwed. It will never be the same even if they drop charges. I have a feeling that someone will try to assassinate him. And riots will be much more worse if charges are dropped.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Narmy said:


> He's clearly on drugs. He resists getting in the police car. He complains about not being able to breathe before he is ever on the ground. He asks to lay on the ground. Most likely had a heart attack like the original coroner said.


But also be aware that coroner could be lying too. Police manipulate the system many times. Its really trying to figure out who's lying and whose telling the truth.


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## Xzi (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> He asks to lay on the ground. Most likely had a heart attack like the original coroner said.


Oh *fuck off*.  Did he ask for Chauvin to kneel on his neck for eight minutes too?  Can you even hold your breath for more than one minute?  Coroners will write whatever the fuck the police tell them to.  Floyd died of asphyxiation or a broken neck, nobody needs an expert to tell them that with video evidence this complete.


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## anhminh (Aug 5, 2020)

Okay, we need someone to kneel on other neck for 8 minutes to see if it could actually kill a person or not. Maybe we misunderstand the cops and George Floyd actually kill himself with his action.


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## SG854 (Aug 5, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Oh *fuck off*.  Did he ask for Chauvin to kneel on his neck for eight minutes too?  Can you even hold your breath for more than one minute?  Coroners will write whatever the fuck the police tell them to.  Floyd died of asphyxiation or a broken neck, nobody needs an expert to tell them that with video evidence this complete.


According to this it was asphyxiation by compression to the neck

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-autopsy-michael-baden.amp.html

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Narmy said:


> I wonder if that pregnant woman he robbed, cried and begged "please don't shoot me" as pathetically as this fucking sobbing loser did, fuck off.


This isn't about his criminal history. His criminal history isn't the the focus of this thread. This is about if the cops did wrong. His criminal history doesn't excuse cops that may be abusing their power.


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## cracker (Aug 5, 2020)

I've seen this video and it makes the cops look even worse. He isn't fighting back like they made it sound like. He is in an anxious state because he knew what could happen. The cops proved his point. In such a state, your muscles can lock just like his appear to have been. He gave them NO GOOD reason for them to murder him.

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Set them all free. After they face their 8:46.


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## Joe88 (Aug 5, 2020)

SG854 said:


> According to this it was asphyxiation by compression to the neck
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-autopsy-michael-baden.amp.html


Your argument about the coroner saying what what the police want can just be applied here too. The problem was his death became politicized. 
Regardless though his death should have never happened, they should have cuffed him, threw him in the back of the cruiser and called an emt. 
The bodycam footage does somewhat hurt the prosecutors case, and trying to find a unbiased jury is another thing.


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## nero99 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> he knelt on floyd's neck for 8 minutes
> even if he came at them with a fucking knife, once he was restrained, chauvin continued to kneel on his neck, despite floyd's assertions that he couldn't breathe
> 
> this is not relevant


play a stupid game, win a stupid prise.


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## KingVamp (Aug 5, 2020)

Just glancing at this thread, if he did have problems before going down, all that does is make this all worse. No?


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## Xzi (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> I wonder if that pregnant woman he robbed, cried and begged "please don't shoot me" as pathetically as this fucking sobbing loser did, fuck off.


40% of police self-report as domestic abusers, should they all be sentenced to death by neck-kneeling?  Besides, what you're talking about here had nothing to do with Floyd's murder, he was killed over an allegedly fake twenty dollar bill.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> I wonder if that pregnant woman he robbed, cried and begged "please don't shoot me" as pathetically as this fucking sobbing loser did, fuck off.


So ppl are on drugs if they resist arrest? Have you ever been fearful of your life to resist something? Its no wonder why blacks get killed by itchy trigger finger cops yearly. That still doesn't warrant a death sentence. Ppl don't like to bring up BLM, but its statements like that can provoke its purpose.


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## Xzi (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> saint George cryin' like a retarded baby and resisting the entire time


Let's see how composed you remain when you know you're facing down the final minutes of your life at the hands of a deranged pig willing to kill over $20.  You piece of human garbage.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> Video shows him saying he couldn't breath before the knee, and autopsy shows no evidence of trauma to neck or throat but a bad heart and a drug overdose. Smoke the rock. Punch the clock.View attachment 220242


And yet they had him face flat on the ground dying and never bothered to call for help.


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## Xzi (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> You’ve watched too many movies if you think choking someone out means that they necessarily die right there on the spot.


And you're mentally challenged if you think you can hold your breath for eight minutes without dying or having severe brain damage as a result.  I'm right around the size of Chauvin, maybe slightly larger, so let me put my full body weight on your neck for eight minutes and let's see what happens, shall we?  Since you're such an "alpha," I'm sure you'll have no problem signing a waiver that relinquishes me of any responsibility for the results.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> Get a load of that beta "male". Projections now? Its evident that you're the pile of subhuman garbage here, defending a criminal thug on drugs. You’ve watched too many movies if you think choking someone out means that they necessarily die right there on the spot.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


None of that matters if hes dead. He couldn't breathe they ignored him he died in suffocation. This isn't the 1st time these cops have practiced this incorrectly. He was handcuffed, there was no way he could have harmed 4 fking cops let alone pose a threat in custody... like what are you trying to convince us here?


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> I’m claustrophobic - I CANT BREATH WHERE IS MUH MAMA!?
> The cops are innocent. _*Fuck BLM*_.


Yeah Im done with this racist scrub have fun with him yall


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## Xzi (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> Look how you ignore the evidence about the knee on the neck


Your bootlicking is not the same thing as evidence, sorry maggot.  All the evidence anybody needs is on video.  Chauvin is gonna get what's coming to him one way or another, and karma will always catch up with racist fucktards like you eventually too.


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## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

Funny how the video has now changed the perspective of this for many.  I had a feeling it would when they released the body cam footage  transcripts a few weeks ago.  The cops seemed to handle themselves as professionally as I would expect given the situation.  Guy was obviously on something and the cops just tried to work with what they had.  I saw nothing indicating any type of racism or a violent angle to it from the police.  

The cops did not approach the vehicle with guns drawn, one cop drew his weapon when it looked like Floyd was doing something with his right hand and ignoring the officers request.  Floyd literally went against EVERY SINGLE request they made.

At some point people have to acknowledge we all hold a level of responsibility to the outcome of a situation based on our actions.  I mean seriously, if we saw all this body cam footage and it ended with Floyd getting in the back of the car peacefully would there be any problems?  Sure the cop kneeling on him should be penalized, do I believe he intended harm (murder) on Floyd? Not based on all the other camera footage.  Didn't floyd even request to be held down when he again would not comply and he laid down on the ground himself?

Do I believe the DA knew they were in the process of stirring a hornets nest by waiting who knows how long to share the transcripts to the body cams? Yes.  They overcharged the guy, even after they saw the videos.  Yes the cop messed up, but it was likely a mistake.  Not on purpose in my opinion.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> BLM is a racist group you mindless degenerate. You've been done & BTFO ever since I've posted facts.


Dont reply to me your not even worth my notification alerts


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## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> The cops are innocent. Fuck BLM.








This you?


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## Esjay131 (Aug 5, 2020)

The amount of racism in this thread. Jesus. Regardless of his history, Floyd deserved to have due process applied. Every new interaction cops have with a person while on the job should be as if the person has a clean slate. Floyd didn't have a weapon, and it was all over a supposed counterfeit 20. It's not been proven it was counterfeit either.


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## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> This you?
> View attachment 220245







yes.


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## CommissarDinxy (Aug 5, 2020)

So many ad-hom attacks, holy shit. Calm your tits people. You're making your respective opinions look bad.


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## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> Peepee poopoo


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## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> I am so sorry for being racist and dumb, @Seliph. You are a very attractive person and I'm sorry for my useless garbage opinions. I will now go to sleep in my baby boy crib and dream about committing war crimes against civilians and kissing cops passionately on the lips.



Thank you for admitting that you're wrong. I appreciate your honesty.


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## Esjay131 (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> ^ Are you having a seizure golem?
> 
> The only racism here or in the US, is directed towards white people. Can you soyboys admit saint George would be alive today if he had just complied?


Cops in the US grossly overstep their power and it's proven time and time again. Ever been threatened to be arrested for having a cop come out to file a report against a neighbor taking pictures of your kids while they're swimming?


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## wiewiec (Aug 5, 2020)

Call on there. Any of this things was no good for your country - dead of Floyd or this stupid rioters and shitty festivals of love - there also was dead people and huge abuse of power. When I saw first video of this Chaz/Chop I noticed that white or black are able to do same shit for each other. Yes fuck the police but when some group knock to you're door - who should you ask for help? Normal police or police made by some unknown raper how gives rifle to teenager from his tesla.


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## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

Narmy said:


> I enjoy cock AND ball torture.


Weird, but okay I guess if you're into that.


Also, your chanspeak is totally incomprehensible 


Narmy said:


> delta basement furniture.


Like what does this even mean lmao is this some racist dog whistle or something?


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## Ibcap (Aug 5, 2020)

This thread is wild, this might be the absolute worst ive ever seen on gbatemp. The amount of straight hate and racism without even an attempt to cover it up is incredible.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Fuck around and find out, that's all I got to say.  If you think the protests and riots as a result of this murder have been bad up until now, try letting this pig walk away scot-free.  Motherfucker will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his (presumably short) life.  No justice, no peace.


Let us hope that they fuck around, then. It's about time a white man got lynched.

To be clear: If you're justifying this, you're saying that cops should be able to murder people if they act uppity. That's your position. Look what partisan politics has done to you, you absolute freak.



nero99 said:


> play a stupid game, win a stupid prise.


That's right everybody, Nero says that it's GOOD that cops are empowered to murder people for being uncooperative to their standards! Not cooperating with police is a capital offense in Nero's world!


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## Coathanger08 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Let us hope that they fuck around, then. It's about time a white man got lynched.
> 
> To be clear: If you're justifying this, you're saying that cops should be able to murder people if they act uppity. That's your position. Look what partisan politics has done to you, you absolute freak.
> 
> ...



have you guys watched the video? he was resisting arrest while high...

Darth you need mental help dude, saying its about time a white man got lynched...and everything you say is straight fcuked , get help man.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

Coathanger08 said:


> Darth you need mental help dude, saying its about time a white man got lynched...and everything you say is straight fcuked , get help man.


Oh, you don't like mob justice? You don't like people being killed for the color of their skin? How convenient, now that it's one of your people. What a lark!

And I would get help, but the 'help' is the mob of scumfucks who murdered a guy calling out for his mother.


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## ShadowOne333 (Aug 5, 2020)

Interesting how people that simply don't support the BLM movement are quick to being labelled a flat out racist. Have you given the thought that maybe there's people that find the reasoning of the demands by said movement and their overall behaviour as unreasonable or illogical?

Just because a person doesn't share your ideology doesn't make said person automatically racist.
It's a very close minded thing, and people should really stop calling everyone who doesn't agree with you nor share your same ideology a racist or facist, and if you do, then perhaps the person making said statement is the very own thing they so much love to hate.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

ShadowOne333 said:


> b-but not all authoritarians are fascist and racist


Okay, so let's do a li'l looksee at your ideology, then, if you're gonna fingerwag.

1) Do you think police should be able to murder civilians without a threat to their life?
2) Do you think police should be able to ignore the cries for mercy from people who are restrained?
3) Do you think police should be armed when responding to non-violent crimes, or even regular calls for mental health?
4) Do you think there should be a widespread defunding of the police in tandem with a restructuring of how we respond to non-violent calls?
5) Do you think police should be subject to an independent investigation when they discharge a potentially lethal weapon?
6) Do you think that oversight and regulation should be applied to police training, and independent reviews should be undertaken to ensure accountability?
7) Do you think that the current police should be phased out, and a new crop of individuals with better training should be built up to replace them?
8) Do you think that off-duty police officers discovered to be engaging in hateful rhetoric towards any part of the citizenry should result in an independent investigation and retraining of the police officer?
9) Do you think that police should be subject to regular training on non-violent resolutions of conflict, and be held to that standard outside of direct threats to their life?
10) Do you think that a retroactive review of police violence should be undertaken by an independent body to determine if previous verdicts were unjust?

Let's see what you're like without the mask of tone policing the conversation.

EDIT: This applies to everyone here, take the quiz! Let's all have a chat about how we're going to solve the situation that led to this man being murdered.


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## Drak0rex (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Oh, you don't like mob justice? You don't like people being killed for the color of their skin? How convenient, now that it's one of your people. What a lark!


Did you just assume his ethnicity? You Bigot!


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

Drak0rex said:


> Did you just assume his ethnicity? You Bigot!


If they're black I'll amend it to something less baity, but the thrust of the point remains the same. It's a good bet that a Canadian is white, less than 3% of them are black. I'll take the gamble.


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## ShadowOne333 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Okay, so let's do a li'l looksee at your ideology, then, if you're gonna fingerwag.


First off, stop putting words I didn't say.
That's as kindergarden of a move as the next 5 year old in the thread. We are adult enough to tackle a discussion without resorting to that sort of childish "shaming".

1) Do you think police should be able to murder civilians without a threat to their life?
Of course not. Not at a single point I said the killing was justified in this particular case, much less when the aggravant is already handcuffed.

2) Do you think police should be able to ignore the cries for mercy from people who are restrained?
So just because someone cries for mercy it should be left off the hook? A person can cry all they want, but if the person is suspect to a crime, cries are of no help nor change the situation, even if a person calls for their mother.

3) Do you think police should be armed when responding to non-violent crimes, or even regular calls for mental health?
Yes. Officers need to be armed 24/7 to all kinds of calls. Seems you don't know or haven't got a clue of how the real world goes, and how a "non-violent" call can turn into a massacre. Domestic calls are a clear example of this. Oh, and mental health calls are the most dangerous of them all, of the worst kind to deal with if unarmed or with low numbers of officers on the call.

4) Do you think there should be a widespread defunding of the police in tandem with a restructuring of how we respond to non-violent calls?
What would defunding and restructuring do, exactly? Do you think the force just has those rules in place to deal the most damage to citizenship? If you do, then again you have no clue of how the world works. In order for a rule to be followed as proceedure in the force, it's because there has already been a precedent to put it in place. Restructuring the police force with an unarmed "non-violent" task force will end you up with hundreds of officers killed by the month. Good luck keeping order and crime at bay that way.

5) Do you think police should be subject to an independent investigation when they discharge a potentially lethal weapon?
This already happens btw. An officer that discharges their weapon is always subject to an investigation. Where do you get the idea that they aren't?

6) Do you think that oversight and regulation should be applied to police training, and independent reviews should be undertaken to ensure accountability?
Regulation and oversight to what, precisely? A discharged weapon? See above response if so.

7) Do you think that the current police should be phased out, and a new crop of individuals with better training should be built up to replace them?
What kind of utopian "better training" are you speaking of?
Do you even know how the current basic task force train routine goes to even make such a claim of having better trained individuals?

8) Do you think that off-duty police officers discovered to be engaging in hateful rhetoric towards any part of the citizenry should result in an independent investigation and retraining of the police officer?
Hateful rhetoric from whom? The officer or the citizen? If an off-duty officer sees a crime, they can engage either way. Or do you suggest that if a crime ensues they should just pass a blind eye on the situation? Also, I highly doubt the amount of officers doing hateful rhetorics outside of duty, while a possibility, is anything but at the amount of levels the media and movements make it out to be. Officers are under high radars for such behaviour at all times.

9) Do you think that police should be subject to regular training on non-violent resolutions of conflict, and be held to that standard outside of direct threats to their life?
I already answered something similar.
They are trained for all kinds of calls and resolutions. You seem to think a non-violent call will stay that way and everyone will comply happily without hesitance nor resistance. It sounds like a nice sci-fi story but it's not reality. And the "direct threats for their life" thing is just non-existent. The criminal won't shot out that they are going to kill the officer for them to respond back. When a suspect feels threatened, everything goes,

10) Do you think that a retroactive review of police violence should be subject to an independent investigation to determine if the previous verdicts were unjust?
Didn't I answer this already like for the 3rd time now?
All officers undergo an investigation if a case goes south. I really don't understand why some people think this isn't even a thing on the force.

Outside of that, everyone knows that resisting cooperation or arrest from the authority can end up badly. This is a given. Complying with calm and holding your ground is all that's needed for a 5 min interchange to be dismissed and continue (in cooperation cases). For arrests, it's better to be kept calm at all times and comply as well, if you have nothing to hide, you will be freed up with no charges and no problems.

Still, I do want to reiterate that the killing in this case was unjustified, and that the officer(s) should be prosecuted, as they are since months now.
But putting the blame on the entire police force of the whole country for the mistake of one is also unjustified.

It's just like saying tbat because of a negligence of a doctor killing a patient, the entire medical and health care should be defunded and restructured.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 5, 2020)

ShadowOne333 said:


> 1) No.
> 2) Yes.
> 3) Yes. Also, my answer contains a falsehood.
> 4) No. Also, my answer contains a falsehood.
> ...


Mm that's a fail grade, sir. 1/10 is pretty awful. Quite a bit of misinformation in your answers, too.

See, when I say an independent body, I mean separate from the police system. I'm talking a body that exclusively deals with police infractions that is not police affiliated. You made a lot of answers that seem to misunderstand that point, so I'm gonna give you the chance to reply again to those parts.

As for the parts about training of police, in America, there's a thing called Warrior training that causes police to be more violent. There's been studies done on the negative effects of this style of training law enforcement, and attempts have been made to curb it. It's time to get it done.

Otherwise, have a nice day, thank you for completing the survey.


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> See, when I say an independent body, I mean separate from the police system. I'm talking a body that exclusively deals with police infractions that is not police affiliated.


How am I misinformed, exactly? I have yet to see information on the contrary, and if so, then inform me with factual statements, not ideologies, sentiments nor claims made out of suppositions.

Also, if you are calling for an independent body outside the police force itself, then why are you calling to make changes to the police in the whole country, when you just stated you want a separate body from them?



Darth Meteos said:


> As for the parts about training of police, in America, there's a thing called Warrior training that causes police to be more violent. There's been studies done on the negative effects of this style of training law enforcement, and attempts have been made to curb it. It's time to get it done.


Well, it's not like the police is going to be sent out to deal with kindergarden misunderstandings neither. That's why they are trained a certain way, and I dare disagree that the training is what makes certain officers, that way, but their actual field work.
The "Warrior" training you mention is applied more to special task forces and the military.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 5, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> *he knelt on floyd's neck for 8 minutes*
> even if he came at them with a fucking knife, once he was restrained, chauvin continued to kneel on his neck, despite floyd's assertions that he couldn't breathe
> 
> this is not relevant



If you all remember, Chauvin was originally charged with 3rd degree murder, and it was enhanced to 2nd degree by Antifa Keith Ellison. Why? To increase the chance that a jury would not convict Chauvin as-charged, which in turn increases the chance of more riots. Y'all in the hate whitey club are being played.

This will bother some of you to hear it, but the reality is that pressure on the _back_ of the neck does not restrict breathing. Cops have used this restraint technique for decades. It's ugly, i.e. bad optics, so it has been discontinued in some jurisdictions because the city council doesn't want the headache of ignorant citizen complaints. But Minneapolis wasn't one of those places before this occurred.

George Floyd had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. He probably used often enough that he had a tolerance to those levels. So why did he die? 1) He had also used meth, a stimulant. This excited his bodies systems during the encounter with the police, causing the heart to race, which means the body needs more oxygen, but 2) fentanyl, an opiate more powerful than heroin, causes depression of the involuntary breath response. This is why he was already saying he couldn't breathe before ever being laid on the ground -- because of the fentanyl he literally couldn't breathe, with nobody and nothing coming anywhere near his neck. Floyd needed to breathe more and more, but his brain couldn't turn on the signal to the lungs and diaphragm to make it happen. Asphyxiation is how all heroin and fentanyl OD's die.

A healthy, unintoxicated person would have survived this. More importantly a healthy, unintoxicated person would've avoided this, by cooperating with the instructions and submitting to the arrest instead of wigging out and going snap-crackle-pop.

So especially since watching the video, I don't see murder holding up. Maybe it will, simply because the jury will choose to condemn Chauvin regardless of actual culpability, rather than go through more riots. That's a very real possibility. Also likely is that they convict for a lesser charge than "murder" (maybe manslaughter), which will still also probably cause more riots. I'm sure Antifa Keith Ellison had this in mind when he raised the charge against Chauvin to 2nd degree murder. He wants more riots. But murder is not supported by the facts. I think manslaughter is something a reasonable person could agree to. I also think an acquittal is something a reasonable person could agree to, based on Floyd's drugs and freakout being almost entirely responsible for the fact he died. Like I said, a healthy, unintoxicated person would have tolerated this restraint.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 5, 2020)

So the meth addict was whining about not being able to breathe before any of this even started. There goes the entire narrative.


----------



## notimp (Aug 5, 2020)

The Floyd basically killed himself?

Problem zolved?

Who are you trying to convince with this, yourselves, or... 

Add a Pepe the frog type meme to it for good measure.

Feel good reestablished. See - it wasnt police who killed a guy that caused riots. It was the drugs and those unlucky circumstances, and that video, and not the fact that this was the n'th video of a black person being killed in a police chokehold. And the fact that you never sustain a chokehold for 8 minutes...?


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## KingVamp (Aug 5, 2020)

Saying he can't breathe and yet still getting kneed on for about 8mins, doesn't sound better. In fact, that just sounds worse.

Maybe he would have survived, if he was never kneed down for that long (or not at all), but now we never know.


----------



## Taleweaver (Aug 5, 2020)

Heh...i originally thought this thread was necrobumped, because I saw the footage weeks ago. I don't see much reason to see the whole thing again (I'm not a sadist). 

If I'm honest : anything in the op just strengthens my idea that the protesters are absolutely right in their demands to reform. 
I don't get the reasoning of white people either : it's like they're okay with the police acting as criminals, as long as blacks have more chances of being targeted. Is it so hard to see a benefit of a cop NOT legally allowed to tackle you to the ground for the tiniest possible offence? 



Osirus said:


> So the meth addict was whining about not being able to breathe before any of this even started. There goes the entire narrative.


Okay, you haven't watched the footage. How about you go do that before attempting you're smarter than millions of protesters?


----------



## KingVamp (Aug 5, 2020)

I couldn't barely watch the video either, still, I seen nothing that justifies that knee down. At "best" it is negligence.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Heh...i originally thought this thread was necrobumped, because I saw the footage weeks ago. I don't see much reason to see the whole thing again (I'm not a sadist).
> 
> If I'm honest : anything in the op just strengthens my idea that the protesters are absolutely right in their demands to reform.
> I don't get the reasoning of white people either : it's like they're okay with the police acting as criminals, as long as blacks have more chances of being targeted. Is it so hard to see a benefit of a cop NOT legally allowed to tackle you to the ground for the tiniest possible offence?



Maybe you did not actually watch the body cam footage then.  It only gets bad in my opinion when you get to the end which is ONLY what the media shared for so long.  There is much more context set by seeing the whole body cam footage.

That is why everyone is abuzz about it.  It does not change the outcome, but it changes things never the less.  Even if a few don't believe so, there have been many more that now are changing their tune and it is clear for many now that we see everything there was no racism involved and Floyd ultimately put himself in the situation that he was in.  They were just trying to get him in the back of the car for awhile, in a manner that I don't believe many would consider cruel or harsh.  They offered many times to even put down the windows for him in the back of the car.

And it also establishes the fact that whatever drugs he was on were already impacting his ability to breath long before he was on the ground.

So correlating this  to cops acting like criminals is kind of ignorant.


----------



## GoldenBullet (Aug 5, 2020)

As a person of color that supports black lives matter, George Floyd was clearly resisting arrest in the the video and could have avoided the whole situation. He had a criminal history which can give the officers a reason to be cautious. He was also actively high apparently that probably induced some of that paranoia and claustrophobia that he was feeling in the video. 

I don't really support or understand putting pressure on someone's neck when their already on the ground. I still don't see the full story to judge if the cops should be arrested but clearly everyone has been over exaggerating the whole situation. There were good that came from this like the peaceful protests and support but the violent protests led to people hurt and killed.


----------



## notimp (Aug 5, 2020)

GoldenBullet said:


> As a person of color that supports black lives matter, George Floyd was clearly resisting arrest in the the video and could have avoided the whole situation. He had a criminal history which can give the officers a reason to be cautious. He was also actively high apparently that probably induced some of that paranoia and claustrophobia that he was feeling in the video.
> 
> I don't really support or understand putting pressure on someone's neck when their already on the ground. I still don't see the full story to judge if the cops should be arrested but clearly everyone has been over exaggerating the whole situation. There were good that came from this like the peaceful protests and support but the violent protests led to people hurt and killed.


Violent black man on drugs, who could have not been killed with some luck, lead to good things and violent protests and people killed?

Police is missing from that statement. How do you manage that?

Is it racist wednesday followed by Carl with the weather?
The ease with which some pepes want to lay blame and hide the most important part of the story (police misconduct) is astonishing.

Keep trying.

So by now we have:

- He basically killed himself
- He could have easily avoided being killed
- He caused others being killed, and I guess some good things even
- Dying criminal man was responsible for riots, and riots are bad

All disregarding reality in favor of racial/behavioral whitewashing.

If you kneel on a guys neck for eight minutes, while he screams that he cant breath repeatedly, and then starts calling for his mom, and then dies, you are not a victim of circumstance - you are a sociopath, the police willingly and mistakingly embraced in their ranks. And your onlooking collegues, .. you fill out the blanks.


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## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

notimp said:


> All disregarding reality in favor of racial/behavioral whitewashing.



So what exactly makes this situation racial?  I don't see anything at all making it racial.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

Hating/disliking BLM doesn't solve anything your only making its point more stronger than it ever was.
You talk about violent protest and looting, but too ashamed to mention what caused these things to happen. If Hypocrites and Contradiction had a baby its this thread.
@crimpshrine
Unless you been living under a rock there have been numerous cases of white cops killing unarmed blacks over the past months and years


----------



## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> So what exactly makes this situation racial?  I don't see anything at all making it racial.



A black man was killed by police officers who are known for disproportionately killing, harassing and brutalizing black men.
Police were called on him for an *allegedly* fake 20 dollar bill. I guarantee you if a white person used a genuinely fake bill, not only would the cops not be called on them but they also definitely wouldn't have been murdered. 
  Dylann Roof murdered 9 people in a church and he was calmy arrested, he was even given burger king by cops. George Floyd used a possibly fake 20 dollar bill and he was murdered. Why?
To say there is no racial component to George Floyd's death is simply wrong and ignores the history of racially motivated police violence against black people spanning decades and decades of US history.  

Literally, if the police never showed up, there never would have been a problem. George Floyd would have used his 20 dollars and simply left. But the police did show up, and they're the reason he died.


----------



## notimp (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> So what exactly makes this situation racial?  I don't see anything at all making it racial.


Because the most likely circumstance for why you would try to paint the police out of the picture imho is, that you are acting out of barely covered racist motives.

Its currently as if a couple of you would portrait 'Marry Sue - knows nothing about racism' while screaming the most hateful racial epitaphs imaginable.

Blaming the entire incident on the guy that was killed (black, probably aggressive, dumb, and on drugs, and a criminal, and behaving 'incorrectly' (while laying pinned down face down on the concrete?), and having caused deaths in several cities, as a result fo his death, ...), is max. extreme already.

Forgetting to mention the part the police played, shouldnt be an accident either.

In case you were not (wtf?), I added /behavioral.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

MasterJ360 said:


> Hating/disliking BLM doesn't solve anything your only making its point more stronger than it ever was.
> You talk about violent protest and looting, but too ashamed to mention what caused these things to happen. If Hypocrites and Contradiction had a baby its this thread.
> @crimpshrine
> Unless you been living under a rock there have been numerous cases of white cops killing unarmed blacks over the past months and years



I specifically asked:
So what exactly makes this situation racial? I don't see anything at all making it racial.

Because the context of his post I responded to is tied to this event.

Doctors are accused of sexual abuse patients, do we get rid of doctors or decrease the # of them.  Would that help? Or claim there is a greater problem with doctors?

There are bad people everywhere in the world.  I believe people are generally more good then bad.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Seliph said:


> A black man was killed by police officers who are known for disproportionately killing, harassing and brutalizing black men.
> Police were called on him for an *allegedly* fake 20 dollar bill. I guarantee you if a white person used a genuinely fake bill, not only would the cops not be called on them but they also definitely wouldn't have been murdered.
> Dylann Roof murdered 9 people in a church and he was calmy arrested, he was even given burger king by cops. George Floyd used a possibly fake 20 dollar bill and he was murdered. Why?
> To say there is no racial component to George Floyd's death is simply wrong and ignores the history of racially motivated police violence against black people spanning decades and decades of US history.
> ...



So it is your gut feeling.  As far as George Floyd goes.

For someone like you the video does not matter then I take it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> Because the most likely circumstance for why you would try to paint the police out of the picture imho is, that you are acting out of barely covered racist motives.
> 
> Its currently as if a couple of you would portrait 'Marry Sue - knows nothing about racism' while screaming the most hateful racial epitaphs imaginable.
> 
> ...




Now that we have the full body cam video we can see what transpired.  I don't see anything that would suggest a "racist motive"  What exactly in the bodycam footage suggests that to you?

If I replace George Floyd with a white dude who is messed up also on drugs, it changes nothing for me in how I view the interaction.  Would I still feel the same way about the oficer that put his knee on the white guy?  Yeah, would I have thought, white guy screwed up, damn. Yep.  People have to start learning how to take personal responsibility for their actions.

If floyd would have not taken all those drugs or cooperated and followed instructions, he would still be alive. That came before the cop made a mistake.  Everything leading up to the cops mistake did not seem to be racial or anything unreasonable.  And I can replace Floyd with someone of any race and still feel the same.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> I specifically asked:
> So what exactly makes this situation racial? I don't see anything at all making it racial.
> 
> Because the context of his post I responded to is tied to this event.
> ...


Google search "I can't Breathe" you'll find that slogan strikingly similar to another black death years ago.
*"If floyd would have not taken all those drugs or cooperated and followed instructions, he would still be alive."*
And if black ppl were white they might not get shot at b/c of sterotype or if the runway unarmed....
Its ppl like you that we have BLM exist today. Your too busy trying to reason his death b/c you heard he had drugs they haven't stated what that drug was.... Hell he could be on medication for all we know.


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## PityOnU (Aug 5, 2020)

This is a difficult issue, and I think a lot of people are weighing in on it without really having enough qualifications/understanding to do so. I think it was Plato who said (paraphrased) "pure democracy doesn't work," as it just boils down to mob rule.

Difficult questions to be answered (specific to the United States):


What is the appropriate level of equipment which should be supplied to officers to allow them to safely do their job on a day-to-day basis? Please keep in mind, there are more guns than there are people in the United States, with many of those being what are labelled as "assault weapons."
Is the training given to/expected of police officers currently adequate given their expected responsibilities? Would significantly reducing funding improve or worsen this situation?
How do we go about effectively reducing recreational drug use? The past 30 or 40 years in the USA have proven that enforcement through incarceration doesn't really work and creates its own set of problems. However, especially in cities on the west coast, the past decade or so has proven that decriminalization and social programs also come with their own set of (perhaps more noticeable) problems. What is the happy midpoint, and what are the unique aspects of American culture that make it so that policies that work so well in other parts of the world absolutely fail here?
Does it make sense to mandate a country-wide set of hiring/training/operational standards for police? The United States is a very large place, and the situations encountered by township police in the middle of nowhere in West Virginia would be very different from that of the LAPD.
How do you quantify "necessary force"? Split-second decisions need to be made that can (given the above) vastly impact the safety of officers/suspects/bystanders involved. It's always easy and fun to play "Monday morning quarterback," but in the heat of the moment, with adrenaline pumping and lives at risk, what is the likelihood of an individual always making the correct decision? This doesn't just apply to the police officers, but to the suspects and bystanders as well. Can someone truly be held accountable for their actions if they are under the influence of hard drugs or mental health crisis? At what point can you claim that someone is a "danger to themselves and others"?

There's a lot going on here. Many difficult questions and deeply rooted issues. It's not as simple as "racist cop bad" and "abolish police."


----------



## Seliph (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> So it is your gut feeling. As far as George Floyd goes.
> 
> For someone like you the video does not matter then I take it.



Why would anything he did in the video warrant his death or the force officers used? Why was a gun pulled on Floyd over a non-violent crime he didn't even commit? Why couldn't officers simply just let Floyd sit on the ground and collect himself before putting him in the police car? Why was he arrested even if there was no evidence of a crime? 

This isn't just a gut feeling. I've seen this exact interaction or similar interactions play out over and over again in videos I see online and it's disgusting. 

So I'm gonna copy and paste what I said earlier because you literally ignored it lmao:


A black man was killed by police officers who are known for disproportionately killing, harassing and brutalizing black men.
Police were called on him for an *allegedly* fake 20 dollar bill. I guarantee you if a white person used a genuinely fake bill, not only would the cops not be called on them but they also definitely wouldn't have been murdered.
Dylann Roof murdered 9 people in a church and he was calmy arrested, he was even given burger king by cops. George Floyd used a possibly fake 20 dollar bill and he was murdered. Why?
To say there is no racial component to George Floyd's death is simply wrong and ignores the history of racially motivated police violence against black people spanning decades and decades of US history.

Literally, if the police never showed up, there never would have been a problem. George Floyd would have used his 20 dollars and simply left. But the police did show up, and they're the reason he died.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

MasterJ360 said:


> Google search "I can't Breathe" you'll find that slogan strikingly similar to another black death years ago.



Can you be a little more specific?  What are you suggesting, was there another death from someone that had a knee applied in a similar manner and that you are suggesting they should stop using that tactic?  I could get on board with that, but not really following.


----------



## leon315 (Aug 5, 2020)

If the charge will drops, I believe it will be the break point for next american Race civil war.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Can you be a little more specific?  What are you suggesting, was there another death from someone that had a knee applied in a similar manner and that you are suggesting they should stop using that tactic?  I could get on board with that, but not really following.


"Eric Garner"


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Why would anything he did in the video warrant his death or the force officers used? Why was a gun pulled on Floyd over a non-violent crime he didn't even commit? Why couldn't officers simply just let Floyd sit on the ground and collect himself before putting him in the police car? Why was he arrested even if there was no evidence of a crime?
> 
> This isn't just a gut feeling. I've seen this exact interaction or similar interactions play out over and over again in videos I see online and it's disgusting.
> 
> ...





You must not believe in personal responsibility.

Where I live when counterfeit money is passed police are called.  They often want to talk to who passed it if the person is available.  The police attempted to do that with Floyd, and Floyd is who escalated things from that point, does not seem out of the ordinary or suspect to me.   

Sounds to me you assume the worst.

And you keep saying he was murdered for that.  No he wasn't, I don't understand your logic.

If he would have complied with their requests he would still be alive.  If he would have not been under the influence of what likely contributed to his death he would likely still be alive. 

You saying he was murdered for using a 20 dollar bill is totally dishonest.  To make that true they would have had to murder him the moment they showed up.  The body cam footage indicates a progression that lead to the mistake the cop made out of a series of choices that floyd put into motion.

Like the cop drawing the gun initially.  He even told floyd if he would have just put both hands on the steering wheel instead of doing something with his right hand and not complying, he would not have drawn his gun.  Seems reasonable to me.  Cops should not be expected to gamble with their lives when someone in a vehicle is not listening and doing the opposite of what is being asked of them.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> You must not believe in personal responsibility.
> 
> Where I live when counterfeit money is passed police are called.  They often want to talk to who passed it if the person is available.  The police attempted to do that with Floyd, and Floyd is who escalated things from that point, does not seem out of the ordinary or suspect to me.
> 
> ...


But that was b4 he was handcuffed. There should be no reason for him to die in custody especially with 4 cops around him. But if you did your research this isn't the 1st time we seen something like this. Not a single cop bothered to call emergency when he pleaded for his life short of breath which can come from anxiety and body stress from resisting. Ofc you'll just pull out the drug card despite the fact he was face flat on concrete with a knee on his neck.. Ya know, resisting can come from fear, but you kinda have to be black to understand his situation.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 5, 2020)

MasterJ360 said:


> But that was b4 he was handcuffed. There should be no reason for him to die in custody especially with 4 cops around him. But if you did your research this isn't the 1st time we seen something like this. Not a single cop bothered to call emergency when he pleaded for his life short of breath which can come from anxiety and body stress from resisting. Ofc you'll just pull out the drug card despite the fact he was face flat on concrete with a knee on his neck.



LOL, you know how many cops there are in the USA?  There are people that make mistakes and people that do harm on purpose in EVERY SINGLE profession on earth.

There are gynecologists that molest and sexualy abuse their patients
There are doctors that make mistakes and their patients die or doctors that do wrong on purpose.
There are nurses that give the wrong medication that leads to someones death

It goes on and on and on.  Do all of these professions require drastic change now?

The body cam footage shows clearly, there was no racial motivation, it also shows clearly that Floyd was on something that might have even caused his death.  Floyd was who decided to get down on the ground, the cops wanted him in the back seat safely.  He would not comply   Did the cop make a mistake with putting his knee on him?  Yes, did he plan on murdering Floyd.  I don't believe so.  

Actually I should say, did he plan on contributing to his death POSSIBLE, because we still don't know 100% if he murdered him or it was the lethal level of drugs in his system.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> LOL, you know how many cops there are in the USA?  There are people that make mistakes and people that do harm on purpose in EVERY SINGLE profession on earth.
> 
> There are gynecologists that molest and sexualy abuse their patients
> There are doctors that make mistakes and their patients die or doctors that do wrong on purpose.
> ...


Exactly my point you nailed it:
*"The body cam footage shows clearly, there was no racial motivation" *
This is bigger than the video its about why we keep getting reports of white cops killing blacks in an unprofessional manner. Open your eyes and research whats going on in the world. Clicking 1 video case from Twitter isn't going to give you all the answers crimp.


----------



## PityOnU (Aug 5, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Why would anything he did in the video warrant his death or the force officers used? Why was a gun pulled on Floyd over a non-violent crime he didn't even commit? Why couldn't officers simply just let Floyd sit on the ground and collect himself before putting him in the police car? Why was he arrested even if there was no evidence of a crime?
> 
> This isn't just a gut feeling. I've seen this exact interaction or similar interactions play out over and over again in videos I see online and it's disgusting.
> 
> ...





MasterJ360 said:


> But that was b4 he was handcuffed. There should be no reason for him to die in custody especially with 4 cops around him. But if you did your research this isn't the 1st time we seen something like this. Not a single cop bothered to call emergency when he pleaded for his life short of breath which can come from anxiety and body stress from resisting. Ofc you'll just pull out the drug card despite the fact he was face flat on concrete with a knee on his neck.. Ya know, resisting can come from fear, but you kinda have to be black to understand his situation.



Not claiming that this is or isn't true, but I am curious about your opinions, so let us consider the following purely for discussion (again, the humble reader can have their own opinions, one way or the other):

There is institutional racism present within the police force across the United States. For this to have happened, this particular career path needs to have originally been attractive to a specific kind of person who is prone to this type of thinking. Again, for the sake of argument, let's assume this type of person is a more "blue collar," "hometown" kind of person with (probably) limited education and more emphasis on traditional values. Once there was a high enough density of like-minded people enrolled in/controlling the police force(s), they could protect their own and "overlook" issues involving racism, which leads us to where we are today.

Given the above:


How do we go about changing society's perception of policing such that it attracts a different kind of person? Assuming you are that type of person, would you become a police officer? Why or why not?
There are many studies that indicate that everyone is implicitly biased in one way or another. It is a natural phenomena in human beings. How would you go about identifying if someone's biases have crossed the line into racism? What would you consider appropriate methods for removing people's existing biases?
What would be an appropriate method for removing existing bad actors in policing roles? How would you go about doing this without impacting law enforcement in the areas affected departments serve? Would you be able to accomplish this while also decreasing costs?
Tangentially related, what would you suggest would be a good metric for determining patrol routes? There have been multiple examples that even when patrol routes are calculated using AI/machine learning algorithms, they disproportionately target minority neighborhoods. In that case, do you think the underlying problem is still racism, or is it more economically/historically/statistically based?


----------



## morvoran (Aug 5, 2020)

The leaked video just proves every thing I knew from the beginning.  
People were only shown one side of the story after George Kirby laid on the ground that fit the agenda of the Lame stream communist propaganda media.  
The cops were only doing their jobs according to their training.  
George Kirby was high as a kite and died from a drug overdose.  
The cops did not go "hunting for a blacky" that day.  
He resisted arrest the entire time.
Democrats/leftist couldn't care less about George or the countless lives lost due to him overdosing.
Did he deserve to die?  No, but he brought it upon himself.  
Did the other 26+ black people/children killed due to the BLM riots (or peaceful protests as the media would lead you to believe) deserve to die over a worthless drug fiend?  No, they didn't.

Also, reading the first couple of pages of this thread shows that a lot of people commenting didn't bother watching the video and decided to just to type their unfounded opinions based on what their leaders told them happened in the video.  
The police arrested George, they tried to put him in a vehicle, he cried like a baby that he was claustrophobic (even though he had no problem sitting in his own vehicle), he pushed himself out the other side of the police vehicle and asked to be put on the ground and held.  That's when the video ends.  Nothing about race, no police brutality, no reason to burn down countless black neighborhoods/businesses, and no reason to kill more black people over the death of a criminal.

I hope the police get off as this video shows they did nothing wrong which is what I always knew from the beginning.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Aug 5, 2020)

PityOnU said:


> Not claiming that this is or isn't true, but I am curious about your opinions, so let us consider the following purely for discussion (again, the humble reader can have their own opinions, one way or the other):
> 
> There is institutional racism present within the police force across the United States. For this to have happened, this particular career path needs to have originally been attractive to a specific kind of person who is prone to this type of thinking. Again, for the sake of argument, let's assume this type of person is a more "blue collar," "hometown" kind of person with (probably) limited education and more emphasis on traditional values. Once there was a high enough density of like-minded people enrolled in/controlling the police force(s), they could protect their own and "overlook" issues involving racism, which leads us to where we are today.
> 
> ...


Its coming to a point where blacks are actually fearful of their lives when they are around officers so we have incidents like this. Yes they do crimes to cause this attention, but alot of these incidents are petty stuff like a speeding ticket or selling cigarettes/weed on the streets thats should be an easy handcuff jail lock up protocol.
When a suspect runs away you or they are suppose to call for backup not kill them on the scene they are no threat unarmed. Ahmaud Arbery and Rayshard Brooks both killed in Georgia recently unarmed resisting out of fear. Rayshard was shot in the back for running away in a parking lot the surveillance cam recorded everything. Personally taser guns would be more effective in these situations, but there are cases where ppl die from abusive use of it which is also something cops should be professionalized trained for.


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## Chains (Aug 5, 2020)

George was saying "I can't breath" while sitting in the police unit, before he was on the ground.
He was on an opioid (fentanyl) & also on methamphetamine. One is a downer, one is an upper.
When you take an opioid it slows your heart rate & depresses your nervous system. When you take an upper you're going to up your heart rate. When you mix the two its "speedballing".
Your body & nervous system is simultaneously being sped up & slowed down, causing incredible stress on the heart.
If you read the reports George died when his heart stopped beating.
He had a heart attack, his heart was under a lot of stress.
You can hear officers say he was already foaming at the mouth, couple that with him freaking out, heart problems & covid, sickle cell.

These are facts alright, nothing to debate. I also don't care to convince any of you of anything.


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## Xzi (Aug 6, 2020)

Chains said:


> George was saying "I can't breath" while sitting in the police unit, before he was on the ground.


You realize this makes what the cops did _worse_, right?  "Oh, guy says he can't breathe, let me put my knee and body weight on his neck.  That'll surely clear up his airway."  This shows there was undoubtedly malicious intent, or even the intent to kill in their actions.  Whether he was or wasn't on drugs is completely irrelevant, there's not a single state in this country that hands out the death penalty for simple possession/being high at the time of arrest.

As for the argument of, "well cops kill white people too!"  ...Yeah, they do.  The majority of people they kill annually are white, but on top of that, they still manage to kill black people and Latinos at a rate disproportionate with their populations.  If anything, this just reinforces the reasons why _everybody_ should be in favor of police reform and/or redistributing some of their funding.  We can do better than trigger-happy high school dropouts when it comes to responding to non-violent scenarios.


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## crimpshrine (Aug 6, 2020)

USA:

2017 - white people killed by police 457
2018 -  white people killed by police 399
2019 -  white people killed by police 370
2020 -  white people killed by police 215

2017 - black people killed by police 223
2018 - black people killed by police 209
2019 - black people killed by police 235
2020 - black people killed by police 111

2017 - Hispanic people killed by police 179
2018 - Hispanic people killed by police 148
2019 - Hispanic people killed by police 158
2020 - Hispanic people killed by police 71

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to improve those #'s.  At least they are not going up in any great way.

Medical malpractice kills anywhere from 250,000 people per year to 440,000 in the USA from what I could find.

Your odds of being killed by a cop are very low if you do not participate in crime.   

Your odds of dying due to a medical error are significantly higher which impacts EVERYONE.  Seems like attention should be spent on other areas if you want to prioritize unjust deaths in our country.


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