# The National Walkout - Your Thoughts?



## Dominator211 (Mar 14, 2018)

There is no denying the events that have happened are horrible. It is extremely sad and i express my deepest condolences to the victims and their families. I, being a High School student, find myself surrounded by my peers, teachers and the media. With less than 5 minutes until the "national" walkout for the eastern seaboard. I find myself sitting in study hall hanging on a weak WiFi connection typing to see what you guys think of this walkout. I am really interested in knowing.


As for what i think... I dont think walking out is going to do anything to change anything. half of these people that are walking out arent doing it because they know the true meaning of it. they are doing it because everyone else is doing it. I think we need to feel bad for what happened and fix what needs to be fixed.


----------



## DinohScene (Mar 14, 2018)

HURR DURR lets do a walk out durr hurr.

Fucking nonsense, that's what I think about it.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 14, 2018)

Waste of money and time.


...also... We don't need to feel bad.. We need to grow the fuck up and realize there's an issue that needs fixed. Shame that will never happen due to the lovely agendas being pushed.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2018)

'NRA Tweets Photo Of AR-15 On Day Of National School Walkout For No Particular Reason'

Say what you want about the teens, but the NRA likes to always take things one step further.  How else would one interpret that but as a threat?


----------



## ThisIsDaAccount (Mar 15, 2018)

I think it's great that some people are walking out to make themselves heard, it's not like it's gonna cause any harm. School shootings have gotten to a point where we have to solve them ASAP. 

That said, no one should feel pressured to walk out.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2018)

ThisIsDaAccount said:


> I think it's great that some people are walking out to make themselves heard, it's not like it's gonna cause any harm. School shootings have gotten to a point where we have to solve them ASAP.
> 
> That said, no one should feel pressured to walk out.


I'm sure they don't, they can stay inside and watch some "safety" video, aka put in earphones or play 3DS under your desk (I had GBA SP).


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 15, 2018)

Yes. Let's gather all of the students together to feel bad about a school shooting / mass shootings. Brilliant idea, literally every student on campus in one location remembering an event with a gun. What a genius idea! /s

(if you didn't get it (which some of you won't) by grouping everybody together, you create a bigger risk of deaths).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> I'm sure they don't, they can stay inside and watch some "safety" video, aka put in earphones or play 3DS under your desk (I had GBA SP).


The highschool near me said if you weren't walking out you were doing a shit load of packets.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2018)

blujay said:


> Yes. Let's gather all of the students together to feel bad about a school shooting / mass shootings. Brilliant idea, literally every student on campus in one location remembering an event with a gun. What a genius idea! /s
> 
> (if you didn't get it (which some of you won't) by grouping everybody together, you create a bigger risk of deaths).
> 
> The highschool near me said if you weren't walking out you were doing a shit load of packets.


The remembering is not in a positive light for the shooter, you're meant to be remembering because now is the time to get something done if you don't want to see it in more schools.  Of course, it's a bad idea to expect teenagers to infer this on their own.

As for required walkouts, to be fair, most were only required to walk out for 17 minutes, which is symbolic of something about the shooting that even I've already forgot.  If a school required you to go home, it's just because that school wanted to save money rofl.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> The remembering is not in a positive light for the shooter, you're meant to be remembering because now is the time to get something done if you don't want to see it in more schools.  Of course, it's a bad idea to expect teenagers to infer this on their own.
> 
> As for required walkouts, to be fair, most were only required to walk out for 17 minutes, which is symbolic of something about the shooting that even I've already forgot.  If a school required you to go home, it's just because that school wanted to save money rofl.


But if somebody wanted to make a point? You always have counter protests for everything. Btw 17 was for the victims of parkland.

If students are old enough to make up their mind about laws such as gun control, they are old enough to reject the protest. The school had them walkout for 17 mins but if they didn't then they had a lot of work for not standing out.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2018)

blujay said:


> But if somebody wanted to make a point? You always have counter protests for everything. Btw 17 was for the victims of parkland.
> 
> If students are old enough to make up their mind about laws such as gun control, they are old enough to reject the protest. The school had them walkout for 17 mins but if they didn't then they had a lot of work for not standing out.


Thanks for jogging my memory.

That's going to be a decision on the individual schools.  What I heard on a wider scale was the safety video, probably what to do in a shooting scenario.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 15, 2018)

Personally, I see it as acceptable and fine. The teachers and staff (most of them) know it's because that gun laws are in definite need of being updated. (before any of you guys get your panties in a bunch. I DO NOT SUPPORT BANNING FIREARMS. It solves the problem in a unfair way. Fair way is giving it a tweak that kind of makes it so there is some sort of sanity check. OR EVEN BETTER, GET PEOPLE THE MENTAL HELP THEY NEED. Putting them in prison for the mentally insane, does absolutely nothing. Unless, they are a sane person.) And I see the school walk out as a ok protest, because I don't think most schools can just use their money and protest at Washington as a group with every single student


----------



## CallmeBerto (Mar 15, 2018)

While I don't agree with them, they are allowed to do what they think is right.
As to why the NRA posted an AR-15. Yeah not their best move today.


----------



## Viri (Mar 16, 2018)

If I was a student in grade school or high school, I would walk out for the sake of no school for the day. I'm pretty sure 95% of the students who walked out felt the same way. Anything to get out of doing school work!


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 16, 2018)

Protests are all well and good, but what good do they do if nothing gets done?


----------



## CallmeBerto (Mar 16, 2018)

@the_randomizer - What do you think should be done?


----------



## the_randomizer (Mar 16, 2018)

CallmeBerto said:


> @the_randomizer - What do you think should be done?



Protests, but actual action on Congress' part, stricter gun control, mental health background checks, make it harder to get guns while banning AR-15s to be used for personal use. WTF needs an AR-15 when a normal handgun will be sufficient
for self defense?

Protests solve nothing if no action is taken.


----------



## Viri (Mar 16, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Protests, but actual action on Congress' part, stricter gun control, mental health background checks, make it harder to get guns while banning AR-15s to be used for personal use. WTF needs an AR-15 when a normal handgun will be sufficient
> for self defense?
> 
> Protests solve nothing if no action is taken.


I'm probably going to buy an AR-15 in the next few years, because I can. Plus, it looks sexy, and if someone breaks into my house, if I fire that off a few times down the stairs, they'll run.


----------



## JellyPerson (Mar 16, 2018)

The walkout was done to politicize a horrible incident. It was gutless tbh


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> 'NRA Tweets Photo Of AR-15 On Day Of National School Walkout For No Particular Reason'
> 
> Say what you want about the teens, but the NRA likes to always take things one step further.  How else would one interpret that but as a threat?



You'd have to be grasping at straws to claim that as a threat.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You'd have to be grasping at straws to claim that as a threat.


Yeah, it's only the exact weapon used in the Parkland shooting and all.  Totally nothing implied there.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Mar 16, 2018)

I live _5 miles away from the MSD shooting_. The kids are walking out for a reason and the walkouts won't stop until the NRA decides to back off. I'm 16 years old and homeschooled and I plan on joining the protests. 

Sorry, conservatives. We won this one.


----------



## Lacius (Mar 16, 2018)

dpad_5678 said:


> Sorry, conservatives. *We won this one.*


Don't get complacent.


----------



## Xiphiidae (Mar 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Yeah, it's only the exact weapon used in the Parkland shooting and all.  Totally nothing implied there.


Hint: it might have something to do with it being the firearm that progressives want to ban the most, even though it's not significantly functionally different from most semi-automatic rifles.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Personally, I see it as acceptable and fine. The teachers and staff (most of them) know it's because that gun laws are in definite need of being updated. (before any of you guys get your panties in a bunch. I DO NOT SUPPORT BANNING FIREARMS. It solves the problem in a unfair way. Fair way is giving it a tweak that kind of makes it so there is some sort of sanity check. OR EVEN BETTER, GET PEOPLE THE MENTAL HELP THEY NEED. Putting them in prison for the mentally insane, does absolutely nothing. Unless, they are a sane person.) And I see the school walk out as a ok protest, because I don't think most schools can just use their money and protest at Washington as a group with every single student



If teachers, or faculty want to walk out? That's their deal. They're old enough and (hopefully) educated enough to form a fair and just opinion. However, FORCING a certain a viewpoint on impressionable minds is what the educational system was made to PREVENT. It's ironic and rather hypocritical to tell students to walk out over an issue they actually can't fully comprehend. Yes, even high school students. It's raising about as much awareness as the college students who literally cried because Trump became president. It's doing nothing productive, and makes America look worse. Which oddly enough is really easy these days... again, waste of time and tax payers' money.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Yeah, it's only the exact weapon used in the Parkland shooting and all.  Totally nothing implied there.





Xiphiidae said:


> Hint: it might have something to do with it being the firearm that progressives want to ban the most, even though it's not significantly functionally different from most semi-automatic rifles.



Xiphi gets it. Open your damn mind Xzi. I'm not saying to drop your beliefs, but to act like they're _*threatening*_ anybody is shallow.


----------



## dAVID_ (Mar 16, 2018)

Oh man, I can't wait for a student to come out with an AR-15 and mow us down with bullets!


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Protests, but actual action on Congress' part, stricter gun control, mental health background checks, make it harder to get guns while banning AR-15s to be used for personal use. WTF needs an AR-15 when a normal handgun will be sufficient
> for self defense?
> 
> Protests solve nothing if no action is taken.


Correct, but these early protests are a proof of concept to show that students and teachers are willing to participate. If no meaningful federal legislation is passed by April 20th, students walk out and don't come back to school until Congress does something

Personally, I think it's brilliant, and absolutely has potential to work. At least SOMETHING is being done, and the fact that the age group of kids typically affected by lax gun laws is getting a chance to participate in the legislative process is a HUGE plus


----------



## kuwanger (Mar 16, 2018)

JellyPerson said:


> The walkout was done to politicize a horrible incident.



"politics - the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power"

So, a horrible incident happens and people are engaging in activities to try to persuade those who govern the country to change the laws to try to prevent further incidents of such horrible incidents?  Yes, I guess "politicize" is a dirty word now.  How dare the people want the government to actually work.  Of course, the Republicans are right:  government does nothing good.  They're making sure of it.  At least with the Democrats they try to do something right as they try to gain some advantage for themselves.

Back to the actual question, like the_randomizer, I agree that the real issue is that it's very unlikely these Walkouts will do anything.  I'd tend to argue that an ultimatum needs to be stated:  we give you x many days to make these changes, or we're not returning to school but having sit-ins at every legislative body in the country until these changes are made.  The only way protests do tend to work is if they inconvenience the people with power and push them to make the difficult choice of arresting everyone repeatedly.  The counter to this is that such a circumstance would undoubtedly break the protest into at least two factions, of which those willing to comply would be small, and the actual abuse of students would almost certainly occur with little real consequence even with all the cell phones recording every incident.

That's the pessimist in me talking, I guess.  Or maybe the realist of all the protests in the 60s and 70s and how very little of it actually reached their goals.

You want to have real change?  Start a political party now.  As another person suggested, every year millions graduate from high school.  Within ten years, you'd trivially overturn the current political system entirely based on the horrible low turnout of adults.  The best part is, you can almost certainly shame most adults precisely because they haven't voted.  They've passively accepted the current situation as an acceptable status quo.  Even if in shaming them you motivated them to vote, it'd be a win.  We might actually get the democracy we deserve, even if the pessimist in me says it might be worse than the one we already have.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Xiphi gets it. Open your damn mind Xzi. I'm not saying to drop your beliefs, but to act like they're _*threatening*_ anybody is shallow.


Seriously?  Watch any of the NRA's Youtube videos and tell me they don't threaten anybody.  That's literally all they fucking do when they feel their "way of life" is threatened.  AKA anything that might lower gun sales a bit.

The NRA are dickweeds, and they don't even represent the majority of gun owners who do agree on common sense legislation to address gun issues.  Something along the lines of 1 in every 20 gun owners is an NRA member.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

dAVID_ said:


> Oh man, I can't wait for a student to come out with an AR-15 and mow us down with bullets!


They'd be an idiot to do that, since national attention is on these protests specifically asking for tighter gun restrictions. Someone shooting protestors protesting shootings are only helping THEIR cause, as morbid as that might sound


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> They'd be an idiot to do that, since national attention is on these protests specifically asking for tighter gun restrictions. Someone shooting protestors protesting shootings are only helping THEIR cause, as morbid as that might sound


It's true, though. Of course there have been various threats throughout the day. Some even where I live. It's pathetic.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

JellyPerson said:


> The walkout was done to politicize a horrible incident. It was gutless tbh


Not so gentle reminder that the victims of said "horrible incident" a) want this to be politicized so change can take place, and b) litERALLY HELPED ORGANIZE THE WALKOUT


----------



## DeslotlCL (Mar 16, 2018)

Reading some of the opinions on this thread... oh fucking lord, that's why your country is wrong and your congress and politics does what they do: NOTHING.

People are in their right to march and getting heard, it's one of the best resource people have to reach the government or the politics to take action on something. WE have had those, our students have done them and continue doing them because here are unfair treatment from our politics in our education, and not even that, on a few other of stuff too, such as jobs and medical treatments. People march, raise their voices and stuff gets done. THAT'S part of the democracy, the people, the citizens are in their right to demand what is better for them, to protest about what is wrong, all of this is done not just for our generation, but for the next ones so they never have to see, feel or be part of what is wrong today.

Come on people, at least they are trying to get heard, they ARE doing something, unlike some of you that are ok with doing absolutely nothing.

shaking my fucking head


----------



## dpad_5678 (Mar 16, 2018)

Lacius said:


> Don't get complacent.


The second that the NRA/Cuntservatives _aren't _able to stop us from voicing out, is the second they lose.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> Reading some of the opinions on this thread... oh fucking lord, that's your country and your congress is and does what they do: NOTHING.
> 
> People are in their right to march and getting heard, it's one of the best resource people have to reach the government or the politics to take action on something. WE have had those, our students have done them and continue doing them because here are unfair treatment from our politics in our education, and not even that, on a few other of stuff too, such as jobs and medical treatments. People march, raise their voices and stuff gets done. THAT'S part of the democracy, the people, the citizens are in their right to demand what is better for them, to protest about what is wrong, all of this is done not just for our generation, but for the next ones so they never have to see, feel or be part of what is wrong today.
> 
> ...



When my "government" is torn down and rebuilt, maybe I'll have some sympathy for this country. The division is way too great. I can't pick a side as they're all quite retarded.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



dpad_5678 said:


> The second that the NRA/Cuntservatives _aren't _able to stop us from voicing out, is the second they lose.



The NRA isn't trying to silence anybody. Kill that noise already.

"Cuntservatives"... classy.... You're 16. Do your damn homework.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Then what would you propose to do oh great wise one? What ARE YOU GOING TO DO.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Then what would you propose to do oh great wise one? What ARE YOU



Oh, that's cute. Did I offend you? I hope so. This country is a shit hole, and is only getting worse.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> When my "government" is torn down and rebuilt, maybe I'll have some sympathy for this country. The division is way too great. I can't pick a side as they're all quite retarded.


But saying that people will accomplish nothing? That they are wasting time and money? Come on, with that attitude, that's exactly why usa is targeted as a crazy and violent country, or one of them, pretty much because people like to opine or criticize but do nothing at all to try fix their own fucking country image.

NOTHING.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Oh, that's cute. Did I offend you? I hope so. This country is a shit hole, and is only getting worse.


Then what are you going to do about it.


----------



## Dominator211 (Mar 16, 2018)

guns don't kill people, people kill people! we need to protect the students but we also need to stand up for the people who use their guns responsibly and would never hurt a person.
Enough of this fluff I don't give a damn on which side you are on this is debating that this happened and instead of waltzing out of buildings we need to trust that the elected officials that we the American people put in office. In other words, we need to stop beating around the bush and fix what needs to be fixed. I regret making this thread altogether because I should have known people would bring the left and the right into this. I am sick of all the politics invading every aspect of my life! I want to be a teenager without worrying about all the shit news.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

Dominator211 said:


> guns don't kill people, people kill people! we need to protect the students but we also need to stand up for the people who use their guns responsibly and would never hurt a person.
> Enough of this fluff I don't give a damn on which side you are on this is debating that this happened and instead of waltzing out of buildings we need to trust that the elected officials that we the American people put in office. In other words, we need to stop beating around the bush and fix what needs to be fixed. I regret making this thread altogether because I should have known people would bring the left and the right into this. I am sick of all the politics invading every aspect of my life! I want to be a teenager without worrying about all the shit news.



You created a political thread. Of politics are going to be brought into it... What else were you expecting?


----------



## Dominator211 (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You created a political thread. Of politics are going to be brought into it... What else were you expecting?


i regret making the thread all together


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

My stance, is that gun laws need to a bit tighter. That is what I would say. Because right now. It's because of that but most importantly, the fact that people that need mental help aren't getting it.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> When my "government" is torn down and rebuilt, maybe I'll have some sympathy for this country. The division is way too great. I can't pick a side as they're all quite retarded.


They really aren't.  This administration cannot be compared with Obama's.  They aren't even in the same ballpark in terms of competency.  Trump thinks we have a fucking trade deficit with Canada, but we have a surplus of around 25 million.  Like, wtf.  This is what happens when you start buying into your own bullshit.  Doesn't help that he's sundowning hard, and a third of Americans are willing to follow him down the dementia spiral.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

Dominator211 said:


> i regret making the thread all together



Why? The sad reality is what you see is what you get. It's what you're going to get, no matter where you go. Politics are terrible, and it's why I'd prefer to hide this section altogether as there's a very distinct difference of opinion.


----------



## Dominator211 (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Why? The sad reality is what you see is what you get. It's what you're going to get, no matter where you go. Politics are terrible, and it's why I'd prefer to hide this section altogether as there's a very distinct difference of opinion.


I want to write a letter saying that I want to live my life as a student and stop having politics invade my life,because some people have more stress than they deserve


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> They really aren't.  This administration cannot be compared with Obama's.  They aren't even in the same ballpark in terms of competency.  Trump thinks we have a fucking trade deficit with Canada, but we have a surplus of around 25 million.  Like, wtf.  This is what happens when you start buying into your own bullshit.  Doesn't help that he's sundowning hard, anda third of Americans are willing to follow him down the dementia spiral.



Who said anything about Obama? The hell? Okay, first off, even during his reign of terror, there were a ton of issues. Between ACA, third world affairs and just a whole slew of random bullshit from his mouth. Of course that's not the issue. I couldn't care less about Trump and his presidency. Even if Clinton would have won, we'd have been screwed. So, yes, all sides are quite retarded. Wake me when the real shit begins, please.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> The NRA isn't trying to silence anybody. Kill that noise already.


You don't actually believe that, do you?... I mean, they actively lobby against any kind of gun reform, and they've been known to use threats of violence to stifle protests


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Why? The sad reality is what you see is what you get. It's what you're going to get, no matter where you go. Politics are terrible, and it's why I'd prefer to hide this section altogether as there's a very distinct difference of opinion.


No, that is what is getting us here in the first place. Ignoring problems. This does need to be discussed or nothing gets done


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

Dominator211 said:


> I want to write a letter saying that I want to live my life as a student and stop having politics invade my life,because some people have more stress than they deserve



That's very, very true. I'd like to live a normal life. I'd like my daughter to grow up in a country I can be proud of. We need to be looking at a true, red blooded American (not gun-toting burger eating dough boy in office now) that can and will look out for us as a collective whole.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



TotalInsanity4 said:


> You don't actually believe that, do you?... I mean, they actively lobby against any kind of gun reform, and they've been known to use threats of violence to stifle protests



"They" being a select minority that can be found anywhere you go. The left, the right, the middle. I'm sorry, ALL SIDES have used threats of violence to feed their agenda.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> No, that is what is getting us here in the first place. Ignoring problems. This does need to be discussed or nothing gets done


That's exactly what im trying to state. Most of the US citizens ignore the problems, but when it comes to criticize the others who arent ignoring them and are trying to raice their voice, oh god, they do it in a heartbang!


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> That's very, very true. I'd like to live a normal life. I'd like my daughter to grow up in a country I can be proud of. We need to be looking at a true, red blooded American (not gun-toting burger eating dough boy in office now) that can and will look out for us as a collective whole.


Well sadly the reason this is in our lives is because the true source of the problem has been ignored for so long that the younger generation is already concerned about politics sooner than normal


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Well sadly the reason this is in our lives is because the true source of the problem has been ignored for so long that the younger generation is already concerned about politics sooner than normal


It's because 'the source' has decided to shove political opinion down the throats of the school aged children.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Who said anything about Obama? The hell? Okay, first off, even during his reign of terror, there were a ton of issues. Between ACA, third world affairs and just a whole slew of random bullshit from his mouth. Of course that's not the issue. I couldn't care less about Trump and his presidency. Even if Clinton would have won, we'd have been screwed. So, yes, all sides are quite retarded. Wake me when the real shit begins, please.


Yeah no...if Clinton had won we'd be coasting on the economy Obama built, it'd be status quo for four years.  Trump is not like any politician before him, he's a reality TV "star" that had no business running for president.  The real shit has already begun, we take the power back or go down in flames as a country with a dumb look on our faces.  Idiocracy is here, and Democrats aren't the side buying the idea that Gatorade should be used to water our crops.  There's no equating the two.  Republicans gobble down ten gallons of fake news every morning.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> It's because 'the source' has decided to shove political opinion down the throats of the school aged children.


NO, it's the fact that littearly these school shootings are getting worse AND WORSE. Congress is sitting on their ass and doing nothing. Students are fucking concerned they are going to be shot. These school aren't shoving down their throat if it is something that can relate to and already agree with


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> No, that is what is getting us here in the first place. Ignoring problems. This does need to be discussed or nothing gets done



A discussion is one thing. A clear sign of non-mutual understanding is where we find ourselves in every one of these threads.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> A discussion is one thing. A clear sign of non-mutual understanding is where we find ourselves in every one of these threads.


Nice job on tackling a different post, just to avoid what I said just now


----------



## Lacius (Mar 16, 2018)

dpad_5678 said:


> The second that the NRA/Cuntservatives _aren't _able to stop us from voicing out, is the second they lose.


That's not what it means to win. Like I said, don't get complacent. There's a lot of work to be done.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> NO, it's the fact that littearly these school shootings are getting worse AND WORSE. Congress is sitting on their ass and doing nothing. Students are fucking concerned they are going to be shot. These school aren't shoving down their throat if it is something that can relate to and already agree with



You'd rather not discuss the fact that the last school shooting could have been avoided had the guilty party gotten the help he clearly needed? Congress is doing exactly what they intended, it's not a secret. They're worthless, we all know this.

More rules and stricter controls won't stop the issue. It may prolong it, but there's an underlying problem that will never get fixed if we keep pointing fingers at the tools. Just saying.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> Nice job on tackling a different post, just to avoid what I said just now


Not avoiding anything, but okay.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Dominator211 said:


> guns don't kill people, people kill people! we need to protect the students but we also need to stand up for the people who use their guns responsibly and would never hurt a person.


Accidents happen even to responsible people. If you have an accident while handling or cleaning a firearm, it's not unlikely that you'll injure or kill yourself or someone near you. If you have an accident with, say, a knife or a tazer, the worst that would likely happen is minor harm to yourself or potentially causing temporary pain to someone else


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You'd rather not discuss the fact that the last school shooting could have been avoided had the guilty party gotten the help he clearly needed? Congress is doing exactly what they intended, it's not a secret. They're worthless, we all know this.
> 
> More rules and stricter controls won't stop the issue. It may prolong it, but there's an underlying problem that will never get fixed if we keep pointing fingers at the tools. Just saying.
> 
> ...


I also brought up mental heath a while back. I hope you realize that


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> More rules and stricter controls won't stop the issue. It may prolong it, but there's an underlying problem that will never get fixed if we keep pointing fingers at the tools. Just saying.


Nobody's expecting gun deaths to stop altogether in America, but that doesn't mean people should give up on trying to lower the numbers.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I also brought up mental heath a while back. I hope you realize that



I know, but the general idea, or argument being brought up is gun control. We can argue semantics all day, it'll get us nowhere. Tightening a grip on an already regulated source is just fuel. You'll realize this one day.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Yeah no...if Clinton had won we'd be coasting on the economy Obama built, it'd be status quo for four years.  Trump is not like any politician before him, he's a reality TV "star" that had no business running for president.  The real shit has already begun, we take the power back or go down in flames as a country with a dumb look on our faces.  Idiocracy is here, and Democrats aren't the side buying the idea that Gatorade should be used to water our crops.  There's no equating the two.  Republicans gobble down ten gallons of fake news every morning.


That's not true, we've had ONE president that was a TV star before now

He singlehandedly dismantled the middle class, BUT Trump's situation isn't unprecedented


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That's not true, we've had ONE president that was a TV star before now
> 
> He singlehandedly dismantled the middle class, BUT Trump's situation isn't unprecedented



Oof, the actor. Please no.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I know, but the general idea, or argument being brought up is gun control. We can argue semantics all day, it'll get us nowhere.


So... just give up. great fucking idea. Lets not try to make it harder for people to kill others. That's perfectly fine. Lets not concern our selves with death

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

To make it clear. stronger gun control laws first, and immediately work on mental heath


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That's not true, we've had ONE president that was a TV star before now
> 
> He singlehandedly dismantled the middle class, BUT Trump's situation isn't unprecedented


Not a reality TV star though, which is a whole new level of dumb.  Another big difference is that Reagan at least had some prior political experience before running for president.  Oh, and Reagan had Alzheimer's at the tail end of his presidency, Trump had it at the beginning.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So... just give up. great fucking idea. Lets not try to make it harder for people to kill others. That's perfectly fine. Lets not concern our selves with death



You're sounding like a certain rando here. There is a solution, just not what everyone is recommending. Prohibition, or telling someone they can't have something never works. Forcing people to jump through more hoops than they go through doesn't work. History will only repeat itself.

Of course, if you want to talk about killing people.. Europe seems to have an abundance of freight vehicles for people to run down crowds in.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

And to make myself extra clear. I do not want guns banned


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You're sounding like a certain rando here. There is a solution, just not what everyone is recommending. Prohibition, or telling someone they can't have something never works. Forcing people to jump through more hoops than they go through doesn't work. History will only repeat itself.


Seems to work just fine with cars


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You're sounding like a certain rando here. There is a solution, just not what everyone is recommending. Prohibition, or telling someone they can't have something never works. Forcing people to jump through more hoops than they go through doesn't work. History will only repeat itself.


Then what do you propose? How are you going to get a government body to listen. Because apparently walking out is not a good idea. Even though the school I go to. Actually asked the students, ASKED if they wanted to do the walk out


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Seems to work just fine with cars


Read edit, please and thank you. Buying a car is also a straight forward process. Just need to be 18... and pass a driving test. No background checks or mental health checks required.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> Then what do you propose? How are you going to get a government body to listen. Because apparently walking out is not a good idea. Even though the school I go to. Actually asked the students, ASKED if they wanted to do the walk out



Revolution... Just a partial suggestion, anyways. The government forgets it was made for the people, and by the people.

Not all schools asked. Actually had an elementary school here send out letters dictating the walkouts. Which were cancelled due to an uproar... and the childish threats.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Read edit, please and thank you. Buying a car is also a straight forward process. Just need to be 18... and pass a driving test. No background checks or mental health checks required.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


So, you want solve a school shooting. With shooting.


----------



## dpad_5678 (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> The NRA isn't trying to silence anybody. Kill that noise already.
> 
> "Cuntservatives"... classy.... You're 16. Do your damn homework.


The ole' "kids don't know nothin' about politics and should shut up" excuse is old. When the entire current GOP is 6 feet under, WE will be the ones up there, so remember that.

The NRA doesn't directly try to silence anyone (they're not powerful enough), but they do indirectly with their propaganda on YouTube (with that stupid bitch spokeswoman) attempting to brainwash everyone into hating liberals or anyone who has negative views on Trump.

Clearly the NRA is triggered by the protesters. As I always say, the conservatives are the real snowflakes.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You're sounding like a certain rando here. There is a solution, just not what everyone is recommending. Prohibition, or telling someone they can't have something never works. Forcing people to jump through more hoops than they go through doesn't work. History will only repeat itself.


Uhmm, there is plenty of evidence for both of these solutions working elsewhere in the world.  I think we have to at least attempt to do something before declaring that nothing works.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So, you want solve a school shooting. With shooting.



Oof, you are young. Oh so young, and naive. Now where did I say shooting? Revolution doesn't necessarily incite violence or bloodshed. I guess if you look at history, yes. However, you can change the world without unnecessary tactics.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

To solve violence with violence. To solve hate with more hate. It doesn't fucking work


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> To solve violence with violence. To solve hate with more hate. It doesn't fucking work


Read "partial suggestion". I guess you could send letters all day, every day until your hands bleed from typing or writing. Find out how ineffective that is real quick. The goverment system needs reworked. Or abolished. The two party system is a massive thorn in our sides. Oh well, you all can throw your shit fits. If ever you achieve a hollow victory, it'll be too late. I digress. The world is screwed.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Oof, you are young. Oh so young, and naive. Now where did I say shooting? Revolution doesn't necessarily incite violence or bloodshed. I guess if you look at history, yes. However, you can change the world without unnecessary tactics.


Well I'm sorry, but most people when they think revolution, they think of warfare between two political bodies. So again, what do you propose. What kind revolution would you propose


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Read "partial suggestion". I guess you could send letters all day, every day until your hands bleed from typing or writing. Find out how ineffective that is real quick. The goverment system needs reworked. Or abolished. The two party system is a massive thorn in our sides.


How is this even an issue with the two party system?  One party actually wants to do something about gun issues, the other bows to the NRA.

Yeah, we should have more than two parties, but that's not really the issue at hand.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Read edit, please and thank you. Buying a car is also a straight forward process. Just need to be 18... and pass a driving test. No background checks or mental health checks required.


No background checks, no, but vision tests and licenses that need to be renewed regularly, as well as the rest that you mentioned ON TOP of a lengthy class you're required to sit through with regular testing and a minimum number of driving hours requires. That's not including the fact that there are restrictions and traffic laws, that if you are found violating is grounds for having your license revoked. And if you're found driving drunk or without a license? Jail and/or hefty fines


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

And I personally believe that the political party problem is more of a result of the growing divide between people. I'm going to ask everyone this. When you think of the Opposition during politics, do you think of the person or do you think of what they stand for. Do you think them as a human being, yes, or no. Consider what I said carefully.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Plus the corruption going on


----------



## DeslotlCL (Mar 16, 2018)

I really dont want to blame the guns, and im getting pretty tired of bringing this up again and again, but as i said in a profile comment:


> But in our country civilians dont need guns and no tragedy related to guns such as mass shootings neither on schools or any other part of our cities have happened thus far. So, who of the two countries is the one with problems? The one who praise guns as their gods, or the one who really dont need them?


It really makes you think.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Also, regarding the two party system: it's bullshit. Don't vote "against" a candidate in 2020, vote for the 3rd party you align with the most if the major parties don't satisfy you. There's no such thing as a wasted vote, unless you DON'T vote or you vote intentionally against your interests


----------



## dAVID_ (Mar 16, 2018)

To begin with, what is a civilian going to do with a high caliber assault rifle meant to fire a great ammount of bullets per second, with the specific purpose of killing? That should be reserved for military only, and you really can't bring up the argument "it's self defense" when a handgun would serve that purpose well.
How would you regulate the usage of guns? Are you *really *going to make a national campaign where you take away every single assault rifle from the population? It's not impossible, that is if there's a register of bought guns and the respective adress of the buyer. You see, a gun is not bad by itself. What you really need is mental health. And now we're going down the "videogames cause violence" road once more, leaving aside any psychology or actual research.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Also, regarding the two party system: it's bullshit. Don't vote "against" a candidate in 2020, vote for the 3rd party you align with the most if the major parties don't satisfy you. There's no such thing as a wasted vote, unless you DON'T vote or you vote intentionally against your interests


We don't even know the candidates yet, hopefully someone runs against Trump on the Republican side if he's still in office.  November 2018 may end up being more important than 2020, so do your research on candidates for your state.


----------



## kuwanger (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> There's no such thing as a wasted vote, unless you DON'T vote or you vote intentionally against your interests



This a million times.  Republicans and Democrats alike--especially their supporters--spend an inordinate amount of time shitting in the political pool--they used to just piss in it--precisely to make discussions about politics something where, when done, you feel dirtier than when you started.  It drives everyone else who dares have an opinion other than the limited ones they support to want to avoid the whole mess.  The only solution to a pool like that--short of some sort of horrific genocidal civil war--is to keep flushing in more clean water--ie, more fresh voters--willing to vote out of their own careful considerations and conscience.

There's something very disgusting for so many in politics today who are so quick to argue that the one thing you should never vote for is the person or party that represents you but instead should focus on backing the horse that's "less evil".  That's not a call on democracy.  That's a call for a shit show.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> There's something very disgusting for so many in politics today who are so quick to argue that the one thing you should never vote for is the person or party that represents you but instead should focus on backing the horse that's "less evil".  That's not a call on democracy.  That's a call for a shit show.


Not even the last election was truly about the "lesser of two evils," though.  It was only convenient for some people to frame it that way in order to relieve their guilt from not voting or helping to vote in the current shitshow.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

dAVID_ said:


> To begin with, what is a civilian going to do with a high caliber assault rifle meant to fire a great ammount of bullets per second, with the specific purpose of killing? That should be reserved for military only, and you really can't bring up the argument "it's self defense" when a handgun would serve that purpose well.
> How would you regulate the usage of guns? Are you *really *going to make a national campaign where you take away every single assault rifle from the population? It's not impossible, that is if there's a register of bought guns and the respective adress of the buyer. You see, a gun is not bad by itself. What you really need is mental health. And now we're going down the "videogames cause violence" road once more, leaving aside any psychology or actual research.


The reality is that we DON'T need to take away every assault rifle/modern sports rifle (*shudder* that felt gross to type) in one go. We just need to enforce a national buyback at previous retail price while also banning future sales. Rational people will eventually turn in their own weapons for the decent amount of money they'd get in return, as evidenced by the Australian gun buyback and the British knife dropoff program, while the Second Amendment Only Amendment group would probably hang on to theirs like a lifeline, which, realistically, is fine, as long as two things happen; a) when a weapon is used in a crime, it is scanned thoroughly so all evidence remains intact, then decommissioned and melted down for scrap so it doesn't go back into the wild after leaving evidence storage, and b) private sales are regulated by some dmv-like agency that keeps track of who owns firearms and what serial number they own. The idea is not necessarily to completely eliminate all guns in our country, the end goal is simply to reduce our gun/citizen ratio to something manageable while preventing another ride in gun ownership and enacting more reasonable restrictions


----------



## Coolsonickirby (Mar 16, 2018)

I find the walkout to be stupid. It feels to me as though most students just wanted an excuse to ditch class. If they were serious about this and school, they'd do it after school. If I still went to High School and had a walkout like this, I'd probably grab my bag and go home.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The reality is that we DON'T need to take away every assault rifle/modern sports rifle (*shudder* that felt gross to type) in one go. We just need to enforce a national buyback at previous retail price while also banning future sales. Rational people will eventually turn in their own weapons for the decent amount of money they'd get in return, as evidenced by the Australian gun buyback and the British knife dropoff program, while the Second Amendment Only Amendment group would probably hang on to theirs like a lifeline, which, realistically, is fine, as long as two things happen; a) when a weapon is used in a crime, it is scanned thoroughly so all evidence remains intact, then decommissioned and melted down for scrap so it doesn't go back into the wild after leaving evidence storage, and b) private sales are regulated by some dmv-like agency that keeps track of who owns firearms and what serial number they own. The idea is not necessarily to completely eliminate all guns in our country, the end goal is simply to reduce our gun/citizen ratio to something manageable while preventing another ride in gun ownership and enacting more reasonable restrictions









As Biden said, you want a good home defense weapon you buy a shotgun.  

IMO you want a good target weapon you buy some type of pistol.  Hunting rifles only need to be single shot, or you're taking most of the sportsmanship out of it.


----------



## SickPuppy (Mar 16, 2018)

Why don't all school students treat all other school students with respect. It shouldn't have to come down to school shootings and walkouts. There should be zero tolerance for hate and discontent in schools.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Coolsonickirby said:


> I find the walkout to be stupid. It feels to me as though most students just wanted an excuse to ditch class. If they were serious about this and school, they'd do it after school. If I still went to High School and had a walkout like this, I'd probably grab my bag and go home.


It was 17 minutes long

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SickPuppy said:


> Why don't all school students treat all other school students with respect. It shouldn't have to come down to school shootings and walkouts. There should be zero tolerance for hate and discontent in schools.


Children reflect the attitudes of those they look up to the most


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 16, 2018)

If it's been covered and I missed it, just fill in the blanks. But I've wondered ever since the Parkland shooting occurred - he wasn't a student at the school, but he got inside the school, with a long gun. How did that happen? Why hasn't anyone been asking how that happened? When I go to my daughter's school to sign her out for a doctor's appointment or something, I have to press a button to get buzzed in. A minor exercise of simple entry security could have prevented this. Yes? That's not to say he couldn't have inflicted harm elsewhere, but the discussion is specifically re: schools. Even putting aside the ineffective law enforcement response after the shooting began, why not more focus on preventing people who don't belong in the school from getting in there in the first place?


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> If it's been covered and I missed it, just fill in the blanks. But I've wondered ever since the Parkland shooting occurred - he wasn't a student at the school, but he got inside the school, with a long gun. How did that happen? Why hasn't anyone been asking how that happened? When I go to my daughter's school to sign her out for a doctor's appointment or something, I have to press a button to get buzzed in. A minor exercise of simple entry security could have prevented this. Yes? That's not to say he couldn't have inflicted harm elsewhere, but the discussion is specifically re: schools. Even putting aside the ineffective law enforcement response after the shooting began, why not more focus on preventing people who don't belong in the school from getting in there in the first place?


I dunno about Parkland or your school, but in my high school literally anyone can walk in and out during school hours. It's obviously preferred that people go through the office doors, but even then someone with a gun could likely get through if it was in an over-the-shoulder bag or something


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)




----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


>


"Cops are in a position of power imbalance that tends to produce bad cops that are racist and evil, which is why Philandro Castile, a black teacher who legally owned a handgun, was murdered in cold blood for reaching for his ID. If cops were held more accountable and common sense gun laws were enacted, this would be significantly less of an issue."

But hey, that's not nearly as catchy or memeable

Edit: "rascist" I just made the most unholy snorting noise


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "Cops are in a position of power imbalance that tends to produce bad cops that are racist and evil, which is why Philandro Castile, a black teacher who legally owned a handgun, was murdered in cold blood for reaching for his ID. If cops were held more accountable and common sense gun laws were enacted, this would be significantly less of an issue."
> 
> But hey, that's not nearly as catchy or memeable
> 
> Edit: "rascist" I just made the most unholy snorting noise


neither side wants "common sense gun laws" BOTH sides want to give the state a total monopoly on violence


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I dunno about Parkland or your school, but in my high school literally anyone can walk in and out during school hours. It's obviously preferred that people go through the office doors, but even then someone with a gun could likely get through if it was in an over-the-shoulder bag or something



Yeah I guess I'm suggesting maybe we could do something about that.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> neither side wants "common sense gun laws" BOTH sides want to give the state a total monopoly on violence


Uh... What?...

What do YOU think "common sense gun laws" means?...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Hanafuda said:


> Yeah I guess I'm suggesting maybe we could do something about that.


I kind of agree, but we shouldn't HAVE to. Plus, that hinders senior release, which would be a drag


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Uh... What?...
> 
> What do YOU think "common sense gun laws" means?...


it means nothing because there is no such thing
 it's a trick
 criminals do not follow laws ,
all gun control is just to criminalize people
and a step toward total disarmament
a step closer to giving the state a total monopoly on violence


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> it means nothing because there is no such thing
> it's a trick
> criminals do not follow laws ,
> all gun control is just to criminalize people
> ...


Ah... Hm... "Common sense gun laws" apply to the people who SELL the guns, not the people who wish to receive them... It would involve a serial number registry and banning people with histories of domestic abuse from gun ownership, for instance, as well as closing the gun show loophole


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I kind of agree, but we shouldn't HAVE to. Plus, that hinders senior release, which would be a drag




I'm not concerned about whether some sensible security would be a drag. But I agree 100% that we shouldn't have to make our schools that secure, just that it seems kinda foolish that nobody talks much about it (or they go to the stupid extreme of wanting to arm teachers, instead of just locking the damn doors). An ounce of prevention and all that. This school shooting thing is a created phenomenon though, from media hype and other factors. I went to high school in the 80's, and it was common for guys to have rifles hanging in the back windows of their trucks at school, especially during hunting season. Nobody shot up the schools or even thought of it. And it wasn't for lack of weapon availability (the 'scares' we had back then were the occasional bomb threat, which usually coincided with a big test about to happen). Gun violence in the US peaked in the early 90's, but the school shooting thing has become a thing since the 90's. Thank CNN for the sensationalism. And maybe SSRI's.




TotalInsanity4 said:


> banning people with histories of domestic abuse from gun ownership



We already have that.


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Ah... Hm... "Common sense gun laws" apply to the people who SELL the guns, not the people who wish to receive them... It would involve a serial number registry and banning people with histories of domestic abuse from gun ownership, for instance, as well as closing the gun show loophole


LOL yeah ok
  you do know we have a little thing ehere called the black market right?
gun control is a scam  for the same reason drug prohibition is a scam
registration leads to confiscation

ALL of it is just meant to  bring society one step closer to giving links related a total monopoly


----------



## DeslotlCL (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> LOL yeah ok
> you do know we have a little thing ehere called the black market right?
> gun control is a scam  for the same reason drug prohibition is a scam
> registration leads to confiscation
> ...



Gun control a scam??? sure dude, sure...


> But in our country civilians dont need guns and no tragedy related to guns such as mass shootings neither on schools or any other part of our cities have happened thus far. So, who of the two countries is the one with problems? The one who praise guns as their gods, or the one who really dont need them?


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)




----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> We already have that.


Correct, to a fault. There are two loopholes that excuse that though; a) the infamous "gun show loophole" (private sellers don't have to do background checks or keep papers on ownership change), and b) the "boyfriend loophole" (law defines "domestic abuse" as abuse that happens between two people who are married, live together, and/or have a child together. It has virtually nothing on sadistic behavior towards animals, siblings, parents, friends, or significant others that they don't live with)


weatMod said:


> LOL yeah ok
> you do know we have a little thing ehere called the black market right?
> gun control is a scam  for the same reason drug prohibition is a scam
> registration leads to confiscation
> ...



Ok... look at it this way... gun regulation keeps the average layperson away from weapons, and someone who is actively seeking out an illegal weapon is a pretty easy target for law enforcement. Guns, in the context of what would be available on whatever black market might spring up, are EXCLUSIVELY a tool used for killing, and the effort that would go into tracking a dealer down and arranging a sale would be enough to deter _most_ of the population.

I'm also amused by your line "registration leads to confiscation." You don't see driver's licenses revoked on a large scale on a whim by police officers (except in the case of police abusing their power, which is currently a HUGE issue in America; incidentally, completely separate from issue of restricting gun ownership)

Also, if that black market argument held ANY water, I'd like to ask you this; why is it that we don't see more violet/mass crime committed with fully automatic weaponry and rocket propelled grenade launchers, for instance? Virtually every mass shooting that has occurred within the last few years have been committed by people who either obtained their weapon legally, or stole them directly from someone who did.

As for the media you linked, it's unreasonable for you to expect anyone here to watch "Hood Life Volume 3". It's over 90 minutes long, for fuck's sake. In regards to the other one, though, that goes back to lack of accountability on police officers' part and a power imbalance that is currently unregulated

My friend tells me to ask if you're Christian, guess he has a line of thought he'd like to add
He also said (_incredibly _sarcastically) "OooOOOoooh what's so bad about a government monopoly? What're they gonna do, give ya better health care? Know what blood type you are? It's almost like they're gonna know it was _you _if you commit a crime!"



weatMod said:


>


"Ban all guns" is an oversimplification of the issue and completely out of the scope of what was initially argued. You're reaching too hard, don't use memes to try to argue your point


----------



## kuwanger (Mar 16, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> This school shooting thing is a created phenomenon though, from media hype and other factors. I went to high school in the 80's, and it was common for guys to have rifles hanging in the back windows of their trucks at school, especially during hunting season. Nobody shot up the schools or even thought of it.



List of school shottings in the US  So, not really true that nobody shot up schools or even thought of it.  What' happened in the late 90s was (1) there was a school shooting where several people died at once, (2) it was a clearly coordinated attack with multiple people, and (3) there was a 24 hour news cycle that kept tried to cover every possible angle for every bit of sensationalism.  Like you say, this then created the phenomenon of mass school shootings even though they were a thing of the past.

Also, I very much doubt that list is at all inclusive, especially when you get further back than the 60s.  Why?  Because before then you didn't have news reporters that could beam a video broadcast of a story to the whole nation within a day or two of an event.  So, most stories were in the local/state news and that's it.

Fast forward to today, and everything can get amplified.  Crime rates going down?  People don't believe it because we have instant access to the worst events in the country.  Mayberry wasn't a carefree little hamlet.  In Mayberry there were rapes and murders.  On a per capita basis, it's probably around the same rate as any city.  Of course, rural towns don't want to advertise those things, especially if a local official was involved, and it's a lot easier to hush up about it--especially in the past.

So, while I don't entirely disagree about the sentiment at some level that mass school shootings are a new thing, in a lot of ways they aren't.  We're just a lot more aware of them.  Maybe that awareness makes some would-be killers more apt to engage in something they only fantasized about.  Certainly if they know they can get the means to do it because laws are lax, they're inclined to do it even if they never go through with it.

@weatMod - So, yea, that's a stupid argument.  The reason to legalize drugs is that, at least directly, drugs only harm the user.  Indirectly it can harm people in the same way guns can--which is an argument to ban harder drugs.  Then again, this was the main argument to banning alcohol--people blamed the drink instead of the drinker who chose to keep drinking and beating his wife.

The other point is that people will keep buying drugs even if they're banned because they consume them on a regular basis and it makes them happy/less-sad.  The same really can't be said for banned guns except in very isolated cases--die hard collectors and the like.  Practically, though, drugs and guns alike can be accidentally used and harm others, which is why most drugs require prescriptions.  One could argue that this recognition of the danger of drugs and their misuse would be good reason to have similar rules on guns as well as potential standards on banning some because they're too dangerous.

In the end, it's not about the notion that criminals won't get access to drugs/guns even if they're banned but to make them sufficiently hard to get and sufficiently taboo that people won't want to get them.  It obviously works to various degrees with it working pretty horribly with marijuana.  It's why if they banned all guns, then people would have the same reaction to the war on drugs:  lots of effective resistance to the law and a general lack of respect for it.

Of course, there's always people extreme enough that they want all of both or all of one and the other banned.  So, *shrug*.


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Correct, to a fault. There are two loopholes that excuse that though; a) the infamous "gun show loophole" (private sellers don't have to do background checks or keep papers on ownership change), and b) the "boyfriend loophole" (law defines "domestic abuse" as abuse that happens between two people who are married, live together, and/or have a child together. It has virtually nothing on sadistic behavior towards animals, siblings, parents, friends, or significant others that they don't live with)
> 
> Ok... look at it this way... gun regulation keeps the average layperson away from weapons, and someone who is actively seeking out an illegal weapon is a pretty easy target for law enforcement. Guns, in the context of what would be available on whatever black market might spring up, are EXCLUSIVELY a tool used for killing, and the effort that would go into tracking a dealer down and arranging a sale would be enough to deter _most_ of the population.
> 
> ...


 "Virtually every mass shooting that has occurred within the last few years have been committed by people who either obtained their weapon legally, or stole them directly from someone who did."

who cares about "mass shootings" they are  an incredibly trivial number
in the scheme of gun related crime statistics

"I'm also amused by your line "registration leads to confiscation." You don't see driver's licenses revoked on a large scale on a whim by police officers"

because their road piracy depends on you driving , it's a revenue stream  guns are not

"As for the media you linked, it's unreasonable for you to expect anyone here to watch "Hood Life Volume 3". It's over 90 minutes long, for fuck's sake."

i was just going to post the trailer, but you really only need to watch the 1st   minute or 2 to get the jist of it

"also, if that black market argument held ANY water, I'd like to ask you this; why is it that we don't see more violet/mass crime committed with fully automatic weaponry and rocket propelled grenade launchers, for instance? "


if prohibition  works then how come i could get  a bag of anything delivered to my door in  20 minutes

also proportionality  , not all criminals are muppets


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Correct, to a fault. There are two loopholes that excuse that though; a) the infamous "gun show loophole" (private sellers don't have to do background checks or keep papers on ownership change), and b) the "boyfriend loophole" (law defines "domestic abuse" as abuse that happens between two people who are married, live together, and/or have a child together. It has virtually nothing on sadistic behavior towards animals, siblings, parents, friends, or significant others that they don't live with)




That's entirely dependent on how state law defines it. In my state, domestic violence means against a "family or household member," which is defined as:

persons who:

(1) Are or were married to each other;

(2) Are or were living together as spouses;

(3) Are or were sexual or intimate partners;

(4) Are or were dating: Provided, That a casual acquaintance or ordinary fraternization between persons in a business or social context does not establish a dating relationship;

(5) Are or were residing together in the same household;

(6) Have a child in common regardless of whether they have ever married or lived together;

(7) Have the following relationships to another person:

(A) Parent;

(B) Stepparent;

(C) Brother or sister;

(D) Half-brother or half-sister;

(E) Stepbrother or stepsister;

(F) Father-in-law or mother-in-law;

(G) Stepfather-in-law or stepmother-in-law;

(H) Child or stepchild;

(I) Daughter-in-law or son-in-law;

(J) Stepdaughter-in-law or stepson-in-law;

(K) Grandparent;

(L) Step grandparent;

(M) Aunt, aunt-in-law or step aunt;

(N) Uncle, uncle-in-law or step uncle;

(O) Niece or nephew;

(P) First or second cousin


Which is obviously quite broad. Any conviction for domestic assault or battery (assault = create apprehension of immediate harm, battery = actual contact) will result in triggering the Lautenberg amendment Federal prohibition. If your state doesn't define domestic violence this broadly, then that's your local issue but I suggest you check before assuming. The Federal law does have this covered though - conviction for domestic violence means banned.


----------



## invaderyoyo (Mar 16, 2018)

Even if the students were just doing it to skip school, it is bringing attention to the issue so it's fine.

They really should make gun licenses like car licenses. The problem is a lot of people are just unreasonable. They're paranoid that their guns will be taken away.

One argument I see repeatedly is that criminals don't follow laws so it doesn't matter, but that's basically arguing that there should be no laws, which is ridiculous.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> Even if the students were just doing it to skip school, it is bringing attention to the issue so it's fine.
> 
> They really should make gun licenses like car licenses. The problem is a lot of people are just unreasonable. They're paranoid that their guns will be taken away.
> 
> One argument I see repeatedly is that criminals don't follow laws so it doesn't matter, but that's basically arguing that there should be no laws, which is ridiculous.


oh hey another person with some common sense. Glad to know I'm not alone


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> "Virtually every mass shooting that has occurred within the last few years have been committed by people who either obtained their weapon legally, or stole them directly from someone who did."
> 
> who cares about "mass shootings" they are  an incredibly trivial number
> in the scheme of gun related crime statistics


I just crunched the numbers, and there have been 231 casualties related to a mass shooting this year alone. While, yes, this is a very low percentage compared to the ~8,000 casualties so far, it's also not a number to balk at. Plus, I included that piece of information because it's what I could relay off of my head. In addendum, illegal weaponry used in large urban areas (i.e. Chicago) are 100% of the time taken from neighboring states where they were sold legally. A federal level regulatory body would eliminate that.



> "I'm also amused by your line "registration leads to confiscation." You don't see driver's licenses revoked on a large scale on a whim by police officers"
> 
> because their road piracy depends on you driving , it's a revenue stream  guns are not


No it's not. That's not at all how it works. There is no "quota" that police have to meet in regards to people driving, and even if you do get pulled over you can usually get out of a ticket by acting confident. YES, SOME cops are corrupt and will try to pocket money on the side from raids; these typically occur in areas where drug usage or homelessness is high, and they use that as an excuse to say they had "reasonable suspicion" to search and confiscate anything on a person

But again, this is only tangentially related to the matter at hand...



> "also, if that black market argument held ANY water, I'd like to ask you this; why is it that we don't see more violet/mass crime committed with fully automatic weaponry and rocket propelled grenade launchers, for instance? "
> 
> if prohibition  works then how come i could get  a bag of anything delivered to my door in  20 minutes


Drugs are easy to grow and refine relatively discretely in someone's home or garage. I DARE you to start a smelting operation that allows for the pinpoint tolerances required for a firearm to operate correctly, LET ALONE at a rapid rate of fire. Drugs can be imported from anywhere. Realistically, guns can only be taken from locations where it is legally to manufacture them.


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I just crunched the numbers, and there have been 231 casualties related to a mass shooting this year alone. While, yes, this is a very low percentage compared to the ~8,000 casualties so far, it's also not a number to balk at. Plus, I included that piece of information because it's what I could relay off of my head. In addendum, illegal weaponry used in large urban areas (i.e. Chicago) are 100% of the time taken from neighboring states where they were sold legally. A federal level regulatory body would eliminate that.
> 
> 
> No it's not. That's not at all how it works. There is no "quota" that police have to meet in regards to people driving, and even if you do get pulled over you can usually get out of a ticket by acting confident. YES, SOME cops are corrupt and will try to pocket money on the side from raids; these typically occur in areas where drug usage or homelessness is high, and they use that as an excuse to say they had "reasonable suspicion" to search and confiscate anything on a person
> ...



"Drugs are easy to grow and refine relatively discretely in someone's home or garage. I DARE you to start a smelting operation that allows for the pinpoint tolerances required for a firearm to operate correctly, LET ALONE at a rapid rate of fire. Drugs can be imported from anywhere. Realistically, guns can only be taken from locations where it is legally to manufacture them"
what LOL
no not true at all , yes MJ and  psilocybin  is easy to grow at home 
 other drugs not so much
 you would need a shit ton  of land to  grow coca  or poppies and  watched chemicals to refine them .solvent ,acetic anhydride, etc. not to mention a lab and equipment,  totally cost prohibitive that is why  drug come from certain regions ,  oh and not to mention climate
you could never grow enough poppy or coca indoors to make it feasible or even outdoors , unless you are in colombia or  afghanistan

on the  other hand guns can be very easily made at home  thanks to  3D printing and CNC machines


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> "Drugs are easy to grow and refine relatively discretely in someone's home or garage. I DARE you to start a smelting operation that allows for the pinpoint tolerances required for a firearm to operate correctly, LET ALONE at a rapid rate of fire. Drugs can be imported from anywhere. Realistically, guns can only be taken from locations where it is legally to manufacture them"
> what LOL
> no not true at all , yes MJ and  psilocybin  is easy to grow at home
> other drugs not so much
> ...



But not everyone can easily afford the equipment to have a 3d printer. With drugs, the dependencies are less demanding... usually meaning gun creation is harder to do than lets say getting some sort of drug crop grown


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

monkeyman4412 said:


> But not everyone can easily afford the equipment to have a 3d printer. With drugs, the dependencies are less demanding... usually meaning gun creation is harder to do than lets say getting some sort of drug crop grown


no it is really cheap to  get a CNC machine
or even a 3d printer it is astronomically cost prohibitive to  make hard drugs in any significant  quantity
why do you think  they are imported and not produced domestically  , the cartel would make them here if they could


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

You're still failing to recognize that you need equipment that takes space and time to complete a job, and the materials to churn these things out. There are lots of things that would put authorities on your trail much sooner than a drug operation

Plus I wouldn't trust a 3D printed gun to NOT jam up and/or blow up in my face. CNC machined I suppose would have the required tolerance capabilities for the required materials, I hadn't thought about that. I still hold fast that it is much harder to transport illegal weaponry than it is to transport illegal drugs, though

Edit: Wait, how the hell did the guy thread the inside of the barrel? That's crucial to accuracy and I'm 512% certain that a CNC machine alone isn't capable of drilling inside the barrel like that, and humans can't be trusted to reliably reproduce prefect threading


----------



## weatMod (Mar 16, 2018)

i don't know i am no expert but i do know that is possible and that it is far easier to produce than drugs
  and  less risky to transport as well ,  dogs can't differentiate between the smell of metal or plastic because it  is in the shape of a a gun

but  all of this  doe snot matter because prohibition does not work period
even  there were no 3D printers or CNC machines they would still be easy to get
just like drugs ,
and if someone want to do a mass killing they can just get behind the wheel of and SUV and mow down  17 people with no problem
 maybe  put some sharpened wood or metal stakes or tines sticking out of the grill to impale pepople
 or they could just make a bomb out of thousands of  easily obtainable  household materials ,solodiox , propane tanks ,  peroxide the list goes on and on


----------



## SG854 (Mar 16, 2018)

Basically ban guns because there are nut cases out there who have to ruin it for everyone.
We are all punished because idiots irresponsible use them. Nice going assholes. For the people that use it responsibly as self defense well too bad.

Pretty soon driving cars will be banned too because idiots drive drunk. With self learning AI and self driving cars that perform much better than a human can, pretty soon people will protest banning driving, since car crashes are the number 4 top killer, and have cars drive themselves instead without human input. I can imagine people protesting in front of the white house to ban drivers license. And people in retaliation responding, "cars don't kill people, people kill people." Way to go to take the fun out of driving.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> i don't know i am no expert but i do know that is possible and that it is far easier to produce than drugs
> and  less risky to transport as well ,  dogs can't differentiate between the smell of metal or plastic because it  is in the shape of a a gun


There's very rarely such a thing as a "random search," in terms of finding a gun, a human officer is going to be better at locating one than a sniffer dog would be. In either situation, though, you would have had to have fucked up bad enough for said officer to be alerted to the potential that you're doing something potentially illegal



> but  all of this  doe snot matter because prohibition does not work period
> even  there were no 3D printers or CNC machines they would still be easy to get


Tell that to quite literally every other developed nation on earth. Prohibition DOES work, but before it can be enacted the thing you're prohibiting has to be so culturally unacceptable that even the contrarians wouldn't want to get on the "bandwagon" before you prohibit it. But again, we're looping back to the whole "restrictions =/= total ban." Good lord I need to stop letting you pull me into that one



> and if someone want to do a mass killing they can just get behind the wheel of and SUV and mow down  17 people with no problem
> maybe  put some sharpened wood or metal stakes or tines sticking out of the grill to impale pepople
> or they could just make a bomb out of thousands of  easily obtainable  household materials , solodiox , propane tanks ,  peroxide the list goes on and on


The "household bomb" thing is pretty non-sequitur... you can kill people with quite literally anything, including a shard of glass if you're creative and determined enough. What it really comes down to is what the intended purpose of the product actually is, and whether that outweighs potential harm. Plus there's a reasonable amount of effort has to go into crafting any kind of explosive without blowing your hands off. The same can be said about the car thing, with the addition of the fact that given ideal circumstances you could dodge a car with relative ease, whereas unless you're Thomas Anderson I doubt you could dodge a bullet.

On top of that, that's, again, not what the purpose of the discussion is. Are there other ways to harm people? Yeah. Are guns a uniquely suitable method of harming people? Yeah. Are guns sorely under-regulated in the US, especially compared to other countries? Yeah. _That's_ what the current discussion is.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> Basically ban guns because there are nut cases out there who have to ruin it for everyone.
> We are all punished because idiots irresponsible use them. Nice going assholes. For the people that use it responsibly as self defense well too bad.
> 
> Pretty soon driving cars will be banned too because idiots drive drunk. With self learning AI and self driving cars that perform much better than a human can, pretty soon people will protest banning driving, since car crashes are the number 4 top killer, and have cars drive themselves instead without human input. I can imagine people protesting in front of the white house to ban drivers license. And people in retaliation responding, "cars don't kill people, people kill people." Way to go to take the fun out of driving.


Think to yourself: Do other people have the right to kill you? If they do, your ideas of the use of self-defense and the use of firearms might be justified. But if they don't, you might want to consider how fair it is that a) you're directly overstepping that right for others by threatening lethal self-defense measures, and b) you're directly feeding into the fear that there's need for potentially lethal self-defense by carrying a lethal object yourself (i.e. mini arms race)


----------



## matthi321 (Mar 16, 2018)

i hate anything that involves walking


----------



## kuwanger (Mar 16, 2018)

weatMod said:


> but all of this doe snot matter because prohibition does not work period
> even there were no 3D printers or CNC machines they would still be easy to get
> just like drugs ,



(1) How many people today actually make their own guns?  How many people make their own drugs?  I'm pretty sure that ratio has a lot to do with the relative difficulty of making a gun vs buying it and the difficulty of growing several different drugs vs buying it.  Yet people still buy drugs.  Alcohol is one of the easiest things to make, and people still bought it; that probably has a lot to do with their consumption level and generally the social aspect of it.  Maybe if there were more gun clubs and we were talking about bullets...

(2) Which leads to, we could just heavily tax bullets.  I'm sure people would be just as upset with that, but we do heavily tax alcohol.  I guess it's okay to consider it a vice to make yourself sick with alcohol but not to fire bullets that may injure yourself or someone else.

(3) There's an argument that all the effort to make a gun with a CNC machine would be enough to motivate people to not go around killing people precisely because part of the basis for mass shootings is not merely a hot blooded desire to kill--which is generally the argument for removing easy access to guns reducing murder by guns--but a more long-term feeling of worthlessness.  If you can make a gun. or really all sorts of things. with a CNC machines, suddenly you realize you have value in life, and you're probably less inclined to throw it all away on some path of self-destruction.  One could even argue, funny enough, that drug addicts could be trained on CNC machines which will give them the skills to make guns.

In any case, the thing about CNC machines and 3D printers isn't if they can fire a bullet or two.  It's whether they can fire dozens before the gun jams or worse.  Realistically, it's a non-trivial thing to build a sub-machine gun or machine gun, even if building a simple gun is within the realm of doable.

PS - If you would like to guess why drug addicts who grow drugs don't in their act of gardening (or chemistry) potentially overcome their addiction by a realization of their own self-worth, I'd note that growing/making certain drugs is so trivially easy that it's really hard to convince someone they've done anything special.  Also, drug addicts are taking drugs.  They almost all have a profound psychological effect on the person taking them.  I guess one could say the same thing about people buying a gun, but that person is on the opposite end--they derive their self-worth because they bought a gun.  I'd say that's more pathetic than being a drug addict.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 16, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> I'd say that's more pathetic than being a drug addict.


And, more important, not addictive


----------



## Xiphiidae (Mar 17, 2018)

Just a few things for people to keep in mind when the elites use events like this to try to take people's guns away:

In the US in 2014, there were 42,773 suicides (21,386 of which were with firearms), 11,008 firearm homicides, and 461 unintentional/accidental firearm deaths. In that year, 614,348 people died from heart disease, and 591,699 people died from cancer. In 2013, mass shootings accounted for less than 1.5% of all gun deaths (including suicides and accidents) in the US. From 1999 to 2013, 10.6 percent of public mass shootings happened in schools or universities. In addition, handguns have consistently been used in homicides at far higher rates than all other types of firearms conbined.

It's also worth noting that, nationally, overall violent crime in the US remains near the bottom of a 30-year downward trend.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 17, 2018)

Xiphiidae said:


> Just a few things for people to keep in mind when the elites use events like this to try to take people's guns away:
> 
> In the US in 2014, there were 42,773 suicides (21,386 of which were with firearms), 11,008 firearm homicides, and 461 unintentional/accidental firearm deaths. In that year, 614,348 people died from heart disease, and 591,699 people died from cancer. In 2013, mass shootings accounted for less than 1.5% of all gun deaths (including suicides and accidents) in the US. From 1999 to 2013, 10.6 percent of public mass shootings happened in schools or universities. In addition, handguns have consistently been used in homicides at far higher rates than all other types of firearms conbined.
> 
> It's also worth noting that, nationally, overall violent crime in the US remains near the bottom of a 30-year downward trend.


Ah yes. Please keep telling victims of a preventable occurance that they don't matter, because they only make up 1.5% of the total death toll, and more people die of heart disease


----------



## Old (Mar 17, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Ah yes. Please keep telling victims of a preventable occurance that they don't matter, because they only make up 1.5% of the total death toll, and more people die of heart disease



"The Elites", lol.  Antisemitic dog whistle.  SOMEone's been being spoon-fed Shammity & Jones toxic diarrhea, tsk tsk tsk....


----------



## Subtle Demise (Mar 17, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> They really should make gun licenses like car licenses. The problem is a lot of people are just unreasonable. They're paranoid that their guns will be taken away.


But...that already is a thing. Several graduated licenses depending on the type of firearm you want to use and/or own.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 17, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> But...that already is a thing. Several graduated licenses depending on the type of firearm you want to use and/or own.


There are concealed carry licenses, yes, but open carry is something else entirely, as well as home use being completely unrestricted as far as I'm aware. Plus you're not required to take a big long education seminar, you just have to file for one and show basic competency in handling a firearm


----------



## Subtle Demise (Mar 17, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> There are concealed carry licenses, yes, but open carry is something else entirely, as well as home use being completely unrestricted as far as I'm aware. Plus you're not required to take a big long education seminar, you just have to file for one and show basic competency in handling a firearm


It depends on the weapon amd it's intended use. Hunting rifles and shotguns are generally unregulated. Handguns require a permit afaik, even if not concealed or ooen carry. You can even legally obtain full-auto weapons under special conditions: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-extremely-difficult-and-especially-expensive

I was just informing the other guy that such a system does exist.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'm also going to leave this here for anyone interested:


----------



## Xiphiidae (Mar 17, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Ah yes. Please keep telling victims of a preventable occurance that they don't matter, because they only make up 1.5% of the total death toll, and more people die of heart disease


Please tell me where I said that "they don't matter". 



Old said:


> "The Elites", lol.  Antisemitic dog whistle.  SOMEone's been being spoon-fed Shammity & Jones toxic diarrhea, tsk tsk tsk....


Nice job avoiding everything I said and electing to just attack me.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Mar 17, 2018)

Xiphiidae said:


> Please tell me where I said that "they don't matter".


Your statement carried the implication that the Parkland kids' request for better gun restrictions was invalid, which is like. Literally the entire reason this thread exists


----------

