# Nintendo wins legal case over ROM site, site owner ordered to pay $12 million in damages



## antiNT (Nov 12, 2018)

Is it even possible to have 12 million dollars without being Bill Gates ???


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## ShadowOne333 (Nov 12, 2018)

How the fuck is a family man supposed to pay that amount?
And what damages is Nintendo claiming?
Sorry but that's bullshit, Nintendo loses nothing out from ROMs being shared online (outside of current gen consoles) and there is no way someone like Mathias will ever be able to pay such an absurd amount.

Fuck you, Nintendo.


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## Xandrid (Nov 12, 2018)

Why Nintendo, just why


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## SkittleDash (Nov 12, 2018)

That's a lotta doe... I think that's a little too much, Nintendo. I think you went a little too far there.


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## antiNT (Nov 12, 2018)

He has debt that he will never be able to pay for the rest of his life this is too cruel.


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## NoNAND (Nov 12, 2018)

Tch noobs
This is what happens when you're unexperienced


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## Chary (Nov 12, 2018)

It could very well be a scare tactic, and they could end up paying a lesser amount outside of court, but still. This is excessive.


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 12, 2018)

Fuck Nintendo.
As a matter effect I’ll always buy their console illegally so they loose money and never buy a game from them.

I wish Sega was still here and killed this Stupid Company that went downhill.

As you can see.. in life only the evil wins and the good people loose...


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## Soraiko (Nov 12, 2018)

fck ninty


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## spotanjo3 (Nov 12, 2018)

It doesn't matter. There are many private torrents somewhere. By the way, 12 million dollars damage ? Just for roms illegally ? Nintendo must be very CRUEL and greedy. SAD! REALLY SAD!


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 12, 2018)

In the other side: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstec...ding-with-new-genesis-pc-emulation-hub/?amp=1

http://sonicretro.org/2016/04/sega-let-people-share-rom-hacks-steam-workshop/


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

This is what happens when companies are run by over litigious, greedy bastards.



NeoSlyde said:


> In the other side: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/sega-embraces-legal-console-game-modding-with-new-genesis-pc-emulation-hub/?amp=1
> 
> http://sonicretro.org/2016/04/sega-let-people-share-rom-hacks-steam-workshop/



Wow, Sega really _*DOES *_what Nintendont. Who knew?


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## Scarlet (Nov 12, 2018)

> and ownership of LoveROMs.com and LoveRETRO.co has been signed over to Nintendo of Japan.


lol imagine nintendo hosting their own shit on these sites now

(also should loveretro be .com @Chary? i was wrong)


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## CrashMidnick (Nov 12, 2018)

I think the Switch will be the last console I buy from them. Nintendo you lost a customer. Thanks for not playing your games in the future.


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.

Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your *OLD FOCKING GAMES???*


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## mustafag32g (Nov 12, 2018)

fuk nintendo! Everybody pirate the hell out of their shitss


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## Chary (Nov 12, 2018)

Scarlet said:


> lol imagine nintendo hosting their own shit on these sites now
> 
> (also should loveretro be .com @Chary?)


http://www.loveretro.co/



> *Apology to Nintendo*
> Our website, LoveROMS.com/LoveRetro.co, previously offered and performed unauthorized copies of Nintendo games, in violation of Nintendo’s copyrights and trademarks. LoveROMS.com/LoveRetro.co acknowledges that it caused harm to Nintendo, its partners, and customers by offering infringing copies of Nintendo games and has agreed to cease all such activities. To access legitimate Nintendo games online, please visit www.nintendo.com for information about the Nintendo Game Store.


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## omegasoul6 (Nov 12, 2018)

Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
Unforgivable!!! /s

Seriously though, this guy chose to make money with his site by uploading ROMs, so I really can't be bothered to feel sorry for him. He should've known Nintendo would come for him.


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
> Unforgivable!!!


Fuck you Adachi. >:C


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
> Unforgivable!!!


Most people wouldn't mind it, if ninty still sold the games so that you can actually get them.


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## ThoD (Nov 12, 2018)

How did they even come up with the 12 million? I mean, put together all of the AVAILABLE titles by Nintendo currently on WiiU/3DS/Switch and I HIGHLY doubt the sales are anywhere close to that. You can't sue for damages when you aren't even losing money from it, at least you shouldn't be able to... Either sell the darn games yourself already properly instead of only selling like 100 of the THOUSANDS you got or let people be!

And what do they even gain by ruining someone's life by getting them so deep in debt even their grandchildren won't be able to pay it off? They think they are gonna "scare" the million other ROM sites somehow?


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## proffk (Nov 12, 2018)

This news may lead to more rom sites closing down and making it harder for end user to find retro games. I believe its the boom of mini consoles & retro gaming that has lead to this. Like emuparadise was online for over 12 years before suddenly shutting down. But still these roms are nintendos or contents owners ip and they have all the rite in the eyes of the law.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

This kind of bullshit makes me glad I download ROMs all the time. Boo hoo, get over it, Nintendo.


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 12, 2018)

proffk said:


> This news may lead to more rom sites closing down and making it harder for end user to find retro games. I believe its the boom of mini consoles & retro gaming that has lead to this. Like emuparadise was online for over 12 years before suddenly shutting down. But still these roms are nintendos or contents owners ip and they have all the rite in the eyes of the law.


Torrents


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

Seriously tho. Ninty, close any site you want, but give us a fucking way of getting the games then!!!


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## tiamat999 (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
> Unforgivable!!!



Really how about selling those old games again in a good easy way for me to buy em.
Id love to buy super mario collection but hey


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## proffk (Nov 12, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> Torrents


Torrents die if not seeded for a long time. NZB is the way to go no matter how old the file is you can always grab it depending of your retention. On the subject of buying older games. They are now classed as antiques and prices have gone up. how can average gamer play these older games when they are no longer made, expensive in physical form. Did the judge think about that. Take little samson on nes or snatcher on sega cd they are expensive in physical form.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
> Unforgivable!!!



It's not so much that as it is their stupid-ass refusal to put more games on a digital storefront, locking games or simply never allowing people to buy them.  No wonder people pirate. I can't
stand it when people act like Nintendo is a victim, when they have lost very little, if any revenue from old games being pirated.


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## DarkCoffe64 (Nov 12, 2018)

I think with a debt like that, don't even effing bother.
Unless you're a super ultra billionare, there's no way you'll ever be able to pay it.
Sooo... *shrug*
Fuck ya Nintendo, I hope ya go under soon


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## xs4all (Nov 12, 2018)

Not sure what the law is over there, but can't they file for bankruptcy and not pay a cent? But $12mil, that is a fare amount of spare change, funny how Nintendo lawyers who think a simple family couple can afford to cough up that much of $$$.


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## ThoD (Nov 12, 2018)

Why can't Ninty just do what Sony did with PSx games on PSP? Basically have almost every single game available for you to just buy! The 3DS for example already has the software to run VC games regardless of what they are (proven by how you can literally inject any game you want into it), so why couldn't they just offer it on the eshop normally instead of HEAVILY limiting what games one can get? And if they did this along with simply making the pricing decent instead of 5€ for a 30 year old game, they'd actually make a TON more money compared to just going after ROM sites...


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

Nintendo: "But muh intellectual properties! "

To hell with them for only giving Switch users boring AF NES games and nothing else. I'm glad to have an SD2SNES.


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## omegasoul6 (Nov 12, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> It's not so much that as it is their stupid-ass refusal to put more games on a digital storefront, locking games or simply never allowing people to buy them.  No wonder people pirate. I can't
> stand it when people act like Nintendo is a victim, when they have lost very little, if any revenue from old games being pirated.



I get that and all, Nintendo definitely needs to figure out a better way of distributing their retro games. But regardless it's still not Jacob Mathias & LoveROMS/LoveRETRO's property to distribute, he should've known Nintendo would've came after him from the very beginning.
A company has an obligation to protect their copyrighted/trademarked content, it sucks for the guy, but I can't be bothered to feel bad for him when he should've already known the consequences.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> I get that and all, Nintendo definitely needs to figure out a better way of distributing their retro games. But regardless it's still not Jacob Mathias & LoveROMS/LoveRETRO's property to distribute, he should've known Nintendo would've came after him from the very beginning.
> A company has an obligation to protect their copyrighted/trademarked content, it sucks for the guy, but I can't be bothered to feel bad for him when he should've already known the consequences.



And how the actual hell do they expect him to pay the lawsuit? No one has twelve million dollars, and ruining someone's life financially over old games Nintendo won't distribute isn't going to fix a damn thing. I'm sorry, but I don't feel bad for Nintendo at all.


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> I get that and all, Nintendo definitely needs to figure out a better way of distributing their retro games. But regardless it's still not Jacob Mathias & LoveROMS/LoveRETRO's property to distribute, he should've known Nintendo would've came after him from the very beginning.
> A company has an obligation to protect their copyrighted/trademarked content, it sucks for the guy, but I can't be bothered to feel bad for him when he should've already known the consequences.


"_Being on Ninty side._"
I can't take you seriously then.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Nov 12, 2018)

Permission to give obligatory "Feels Bad man" please?


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## omegasoul6 (Nov 12, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> And how the actual hell do they expect him to pay the lawsuit? No one has twelve million dollars, and ruining someone's life financially over old games Nintendo won't distribute isn't going to fix a damn thing. I'm sorry, but I don't feel bad for Nintendo at all.



Again, he should've thought about that before he distributed another company's property, it's common sense.
I don't feel bad for either party to be honest.


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## Lazyboss (Nov 12, 2018)

CrashMidnick said:


> I think the Switch will be the last console I buy from them. Nintendo you lost a customer. Thanks for not playing your games in the future.


Becareful my friend, they may put a case on you for not buying their shit and damage their business. 
People get sued for anything those days.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Again, he should've thought about that before he distributed another company's property, it's common sense.
> I don't feel bad for either party to be honest.



Even so, he could have at least used a fake ID or gave more anonymity using a VPN, proxy, etc, if he's gonna do it at all. ROMs could be argued as a means of preserving games otherwise unavailable.

They can take that 12 million and stuff it up where the sun don't shine.


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

Lazyboss said:


> Becareful my friend, they may put a case on you for not buying their shit and damage their business.
> People get sued for anything those days.


Ninty wouldn't go this far. Apple on the other hand...


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

Man, am I glad I found the ROM sets to GBA, GB/C, NES, Snes and N64. Worth the 20+ GB of downloads.


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## Exavold (Nov 12, 2018)

Nintendo just gave me another reason to pirate their games.


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## TehCupcakes (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.


There is. Video games are no different than music in that respect. It's just that the industry is too new and nothing is old enough to enter public domain yet.


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## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2018)

That's kind of excessive.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

Copyrights last too long, 70 years should be half that for games, music, etc. It's not like they were going to do anything with them anyway, they're just like that bratty kid in Preschool who hoards all the toys so the others can't have them.

I feel like making some videos showcasing the games I downloaded and posting them all over just to piss them off.


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## cvskid (Nov 12, 2018)

proffk said:


> Torrents die if not seeded for a long time. NZB is the way to go no matter how old the file is you can always grab it depending of your retention. On the subject of buying older games. They are now classed as antiques and prices have gone up. how can average gamer play these older games when they are no longer made, expensive in physical form. Did the judge think about that. Take little samson on nes or snatcher on sega cd they are expensive in physical form.


Prices really do suck for retrogames in general these days. Takes the fun out of collecting. Makes you just want to buy the original hardware, buy flashcarts or burn games for them and call it a day.


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

TehCupcakes said:


> There is. Video games are no different than music in that respect. It's just that the industry is too new and nothing is old enough to enter public domain yet.


How many years is it?


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## Lazyboss (Nov 12, 2018)

We can alway sues ninty for damaging our health and wasting our time with their ports.


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## linuxares (Nov 12, 2018)

He might even earn more than that on ads. Who knows?
Nintendo have full rights to do this, I'm even surprised it haven't happened before.


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## nando (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> Ninty wouldn't go this far. Apple on the other hand...




apple is less likely to sue their costumers than nintendo. apple offered free legit upgrades to pirated software.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

linuxares said:


> He might even earn more than that on ads. Who knows?
> Nintendo have full rights to do this, I'm even surprised it haven't happened before.



Good luck paying the lawsuit, no one has that much money.  Makes me glad I've downloaded ROMs and to stop paying for Switch Online.


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 12, 2018)

nando said:


> apple is less likely to sue their costumers than nintendo. apple offered free legit upgrades to pirated software.


Please, don't try to make apple look better than they are. That's impossible. /s+-

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



linuxares said:


> He might even earn more than that on ads. Who knows?
> Nintendo have full rights to do this, I'm even surprised it haven't happened before.


You are joking right?


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## Plstic (Nov 12, 2018)

proffk said:


> Torrents die if not seeded for a long time. NZB is the way to go no matter how old the file is you can always grab it depending of your retention. On the subject of buying older games. They are now classed as antiques and prices have gone up. how can average gamer play these older games when they are no longer made, expensive in physical form. Did the judge think about that. Take little samson on nes or snatcher on sega cd they are expensive in physical form.


dude, usenet gets copyright take downs everyday. with torrents you can't really do that.


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## []KAOS[]Casey (Nov 12, 2018)

The text in the injunction is incredible.

https://torrentfreak.com/images/romsinjunc.pdf



> g. Unfairly competing with Nintendo.



more than 99% of what nintendo took down is simply not attainable legally. It's not unfair if nintendo is simply not "competing".

And they wonder why people pirate their games...


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

Right, "unfairly competing", look at all those lost sales from the games that they aren't selling on the eShop! What a revelation!

F*cking pantywaists.


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## DarkOrb (Nov 12, 2018)

Then better release every single GB/GBC/GBA/N64 game in the eshop, or I will continue to pirate the s**t out of you, for the sake of game preservation! If Nintendo succeeds, then there will be irreversibly lost games in a few decades. Huge parts of our childhood memories will be destroyed for good. Gems like "Hugo", "Alfred Chicken", "Chip 'n Dale" will be no more! F* U Nintendo! Sorry, but I'm angry!


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## nando (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> Please, don't try to make apple look better than they are. That's impossible. /s+-
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...




it's a fact. apples stand on piracy is to never treat their costumers like a criminal. they treat their employees like criminals, but not their customers.


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## smf (Nov 12, 2018)

ThoD said:


> How did they even come up with the 12 million?



It was decided between them, so I imagine he looked at his bank balance and told them what he could afford to pay based on how much money he'd been making off all of you by selling pirated roms.

He probably still walked away with a large chunk of cash.

Meanwhile Nintendo haven't gone after every rom site, just the ones making obsene amounts of money from it.

What I can't work out is why the SJW are defending people making millions of dollars out of this, when there are ways of getting them for free. I guess it makes their balls feel bigger or something.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

DarkOrb said:


> Then better release every single GB/GBC/GBA/N64 game in the eshop, or I will continue to pirate the s**t out of you, for the sake of game preservation! If Nintendo succeeds, then there will be irreversibly lost games in a few decades. Huge parts of our childhood memories will be destroyed for good. Gems like "Hugo", "Alfred Chicken", "Chip 'n Dale" will be no more! F* U Nintendo! Sorry, but I'm angry!



Not gonna happen, I've already done just that and have zero regrets.


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## xxNathanxx (Nov 12, 2018)

USA! USA! USA! Good old freedom prevails again thanks to the American legal system. On a less ironic note, I have no idea what exactly loveroms had on offer, but considering the name of the website didn't include 'nintendo', I suppose they had more than just thirty-five-year-old first-party Nintendo games. With that in mind, it's fascinating that Nintendo managed to proclaim and obtain actual ownership over the loveroms websites, suggesting that Nintendo is, in fact, the owner of all video games in history.



nando said:


> it's a fact. apples stand on piracy is to never treat their costumers like a criminal. they treat their employees like criminals, but not their customers.


The fact that they're part of all spying programs (that consider everyone to be a criminal) suggests otherwise.


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## Xzi (Nov 12, 2018)

The law is always going to favor copyright holders, that's not at all surprising.  The only surprising things about this case are that the guy didn't do more to keep his identity hidden, and that he didn't get taken down for this a lot sooner.  These ROM sites have been around almost as long as I've been gaming.


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## godreborn (Nov 12, 2018)

I've always been a Nintendo fan, but not so much after a recent phone conversation.  I called to complain that three games wouldn't let me redeem coins (giving different errors), this is seventy cents of coins minds you, but it was the principle of the thing that was important.  anyway, Nintendo seemed reluctant to give me those coins as if I was lying for a measly seventy cents.  their fuck up, and I'm the one to pay for it.  Nintendo has become, or perhaps always was, a greedy, very greedy company.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

Xzi said:


> The law is always going to favor copyright holders, that's not at all surprising.  The only surprising things about this case are that the guy didn't do more to keep his identity hidden, and that he didn't get taken down for this a lot sooner.  These ROM sites have been around almost as long as I've been gaming.



Then maybe something needs to be done to make copyrights less dickish.


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## Kayot (Nov 12, 2018)

I'm missing DS Games (5700 to 6000 and > 6400) as well as most of newer consoles such as Wii/PS2/PS3. I don't bother with Xbox anything. My DC collection is pretty complete.


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## Xzi (Nov 12, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Then maybe something needs to be done to make copyrights less dickish.


You might as well be asking to switch systems and reject capitalism as a whole.  I'm right there with ya, but I still don't see it happening in my lifetime.


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## Rabbid4240 (Nov 12, 2018)

And so Nintendo gangrapes the shit out of another innocent rom site and didn't get anything from it. Fuck you, nintendicks.


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## G0R3Z (Nov 12, 2018)

It's pretty ridiculous really. A big one is people going "well, they're protecting their property". Just because a rom is on the SNES, it doesn't make it nintendo's property - It'd belong to the original developer, it was only licenced for the SNES by nintendo. A good 90% of these roms will never be seen again on any nintendo console again. I have complete romsets of All NES, SNES and N64, who the hell knows if I'll be able to find them online in 5 or 10 years time. I want to help to preserve that history, even slightly. 

Rom sites can be pretty shady, but they are preserving a history that we as gamers care about.


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## smf (Nov 12, 2018)

Xzi said:


> The only surprising things about this case are that the guy didn't do more to keep his identity hidden, and that he didn't get taken down for this a lot sooner.



Nintendo have to learn about it first, it may be coincidence but he was about to introduce a new paid for subscription that meant you avoided adverts.



Xzi said:


> These ROM sites have been around almost as long as I've been gaming.



I think you should differentiate from rom sites run for no profit, or at a loss, with ones set up to maximise profits. He negotiated to pay twelve million dollars, which means he had twelve million dollars from this.



the_randomizer said:


> Then maybe something needs to be done to make copyrights less dickish.



It's currently pretty fair, any changes are likely to go the other way.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 12, 2018)

*Proceeds to download even more ROMs just to piss off Nintendo* 

They're too damn cowardly to release more first party games on their eShop, so why should I even support it?


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## McWhiters9511 (Nov 12, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Then maybe something needs to be done to make copyrights less dickish.


maybe you should instead go read up and understand on just how important copyright is. good luck having a functioning free market without it.


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## Rabbid4240 (Nov 12, 2018)

These guys are like Italian cops 
Except they beat up innocent rom sites without a reason.


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## Xzi (Nov 12, 2018)

smf said:


> Nintendo have to learn about it first, it may be coincidence but he was about to introduce a new paid for subscription that meant you avoided adverts.
> 
> I think you should differentiate from rom sites run for no profit, or at a loss, with ones set up to maximise profits. He negotiated to pay twelve million dollars, which means he had twelve million dollars from this.


I doubt he made twelve million in profit, that's just what Nintendo is claiming in damages, and that number may have come down from what it was initially.  It was very stupid of him to attempt to profit off of Nintendo ROMs on top of everything else, though.  Like I said, it was a miracle they didn't bring a suit earlier, and that move was obviously going to tempt fate a step too far.


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## chartube12 (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.



I can’t speak for other countries, but in the US...After a 100 years like books, video game software titles IP rights expire without the ability to renew them. Of course most of us will be long dead by then. I know both sega and Atari talked about in 2007 rereleasing the sources code under the gpn 2.0 of their games after the 50 year mark. More then a decade ago. While sega pretty much remains the same company, Atari has changed ownership several times since then.


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## Dominator211 (Nov 12, 2018)

this is why i hacked my console for bullshit like this. i believe we should all do it because Nintendo is just being insane at this point


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## Cubuss (Nov 12, 2018)

Nintendo is fucking gangster,


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## DarkIrata (Nov 12, 2018)

Ok, let me get this straight. Around 90% of the people which posted to this thread are butthurt over a sued by nintendo rom page, which most of them doesn't even knew before? From where i get the information? Read the thread that was made when the lawsuit started.
What makes it even better how all of you prise rom downloads and hating on Nintendo for DOING THERE JOB SO THEY DOEN'T GET SUED FOR TRIPPEL THE AMOUNT. How the fk people forget that gbatemp also once hosted roms and stoped it to become a place to talk / share about stuff like homebrews, news and so on.

Now let me explain how basic copyright in most use cases work.
Bob developes something. Bob has full rights on what he developed. He publishs it by himself on a way how he makes profit out of it. 50 Years passes. Bob never selled the main rights to what he created, but never updated trademarks or similar things. Other people can make somethign similiar and share it for free, BUT THEY CAN NOT SHARE THEY EXACT THING, A COPY, of what Bob made. They don't have the rights on it.
If Bob shared the rights with Alice who published it for him and get a part of the earnings, good for Bob. But when the contract ends, Alice has not anymore the rights to sell Bobs creation, even if Bob would still make profit out of it. Since Alice doesn't have any legal rights to share it anymore, they can't republish it anymore and need to make a new deal with bob.

Ffs, there are reasons why Nintendo doesn't throw around with Roms and Emulators. They still have to protect the rights from the original creators.

Tldr;
People made shit for money, if you have a problem they make use of there rights, go beat someone up and look how it will workout for you.


Goood sometimes this page....


EDIT: Oh and the high amount to pay. Probably calculated by downloads per rom * rom price and some other things. His own fault. He knew what he was doing. So don't say it is Nintendos fault.


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## ThoD (Nov 12, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Then maybe something needs to be done to make copyrights less dickish.


I agree, copyrights last FAR too long for nowadays' standards! If I remember correctly it's life of creator plus 45 years with minimum having to be 70 total or something like that even though with the sped up world we live in it should never be more than 30... 20 is actually the most reasonable, if you haven't done anything in 20 years, it's your fault and if you have, you had plenty of time to make money off of it! It's really annoying wanting to make commercial fan-made games based on certain series but not being able to just because the assholes at Disney bribed the entire US government to raise the limit:/


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## nando (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> Please, don't try to make apple look better than they are. That's impossible. /s+-
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...




it's a fact. apples stand on piracy was to never treat their costumers like a criminal.


xxNathanxx said:


> USA! USA! USA! Good old freedom prevails again thanks to the American legal system. On a less ironic note, I have no idea what exactly loveroms had on offer, but considering the name of the website didn't include 'nintendo', I suppose they had more than just thirty-five-year-old first-party Nintendo games. With that in mind, it's fascinating that Nintendo managed to proclaim and obtain actual ownership over the loveroms websites, suggesting that Nintendo is, in fact, the owner of all video games in history.
> 
> 
> The fact that they're part of all spying programs (that consider everyone to be a criminal) suggests otherwise.




right. like unlocking iphones for the fbi. come up with actual examples are shut up. you can hate apple but they are far better than petty ass nintendo.


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## brickmii82 (Nov 12, 2018)

He'll just end up filing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy to discharge the judgment.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-bankruptcy-get-rid-lawsuit-judgments.html

I think @kongsnutz had to do the same thing.


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## smf (Nov 12, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I doubt he made twelve million in profit, that's just what Nintendo is claiming in damages,



They wanted $100 million, he himself came up with the offer of $12 million. It was his idea to settle before the case was heard.

It wouldn't make sense for him to agree to pay more than he'd made.


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## Xzi (Nov 12, 2018)

smf said:


> They wanted $100 million, he himself came up with the offer of $12 million. It wouldn't make sense for him to agree to pay more than he'd made.


I doubt they would've taken less than ten mil regardless of how much he had actually made.  His lawyer isn't going to match up to their team of lawyers.  This was a statement suit more than anything.  Nintendo knows there are still millions (if not billions) of complete ROM set copies floating around out there, but they _will_ come after you if you host them without anonymity and/or try to profit off them.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.
> 
> Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your *OLD FOCKING GAMES???*


By buying rereleases or the original cart.


----------



## []KAOS[]Casey (Nov 12, 2018)

DarkIrata said:


> stuff



The _original_ developers deserve the cash. A lot of these developers/companies are long defunct, or even their staff could be dead.

I can't buy a copy of oh.. I don't know.. Miracle Warriors for the Master System because i loved the game as a kid _and_ have money go to the original devs. I'd have to buy it used. But what If I do want to give the original devs money? I just can't. I would be ok with paying a small license fee.. maybe 5 bucks or something to allow me to legally download a ROM for use in emulators

but that's never happening. If I can give the original devs (or people who did a real port job -- not just wrap a ROM in an emulator) money for one reason or another... I think it's okay to claim money in this lawsuit for it. Do you think downloading a copy of "Mario Teaches Typing" for free on a website is "unfairly competing" with nintendo despite it not being for sale for probably literally 20 years?


----------



## supermist (Nov 12, 2018)

I'm just curious. Were they making a lot of money via ads and paid premium memberships?


----------



## Redhorse (Nov 12, 2018)

I know a guy making a living off of selling books ( of a specific field of interest) which are far past copyright, and he is creating an archive at the same time. By doing this, he is making a gold mine for himself and a hub for those of us in that field. He is doing (very)well, sorry I didn't think of this idea first.

more on topic,

 I feel N is nothing more than a Big dog barking... P.T. Barnum said "it doesn't matter what they're saying about me as long as they're still talking about me and haven't forgotten [me].." (loosely translated) sending a message to those hacking and cracking our junk. A messege that they don't want us using Roms or messing with their kit. If a few other sites shut down in the process, so much that better.. I don't believe they expect ma and pa barker to fess up with the cashola, when they can probably just go chapter 13/or bankruptcy... and no I don't think he was making millions, if he was there were far better things to parley/funnel that much money to than more roms sites rentals/sales... assuming he had any brains at all.


----------



## Hells Malice (Nov 12, 2018)

That's the price you pay for doing something illegal. They'll likely have to file for bankruptcy. Pretty unlikely he could ever pay the 12mill.

This was just used to set an example to all sites that illegally distribute copyrighted property.

People mad at Nintendo have no clue how real life works.


----------



## osaka35 (Nov 12, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.
> 
> Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your *OLD FOCKING GAMES???*


as a rule of thumb, anything made before mickey mouse is usually okay and is a part of public domain (what you're talking about, becoming "free"). anytime mickey mouse comes close to losing copyright, bribes are made and the amount of time a copyright on a product can be held is extended.

copyright holders have no requirement to allow others to purchase their work. they retain complete control over how their work is distributed and sold. so, it sucks, but copyright isn't evil. just a bit broken at the moment 

is there a special thing for music that exist outside copyright?


----------



## smf (Nov 12, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I doubt they would've taken less than ten mil regardless of how much he had actually made.



He was getting 17 million visits a month and the site was going for a few years while he ran it as a business. I find it hard to feel sorry for him.


----------



## ov3rkill (Nov 12, 2018)

Yikes! How does this work if you can't pay that amount?


----------



## Thulinma (Nov 12, 2018)

Wow. So much hate for Nintendo, when it was a judge that decided all this. Nintendo didn't *ask* for 12 million, they were *awarded* 12 million, by an impartial judge.
There is probably a good reason for that amount, since it is required that you show damages in court. Most likely, that number is approximately how much the owner of the website earned by offering the downloads. That makes sense, and yes, that is a measurable amount of money Nintendo lost because of them.
Ironically, if they hadn't made any money doing it, they most likely wouldn't have been made to pay much or anything at all. Doing stuff like this without any commercial intent is generally considered fair use when it makes it to court. It's when you do it for profit that it becomes an issue.


----------



## yacepi15 (Nov 12, 2018)

I think they'll make more money with this case than they would ever make with the Switch Online NES emulator.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 12, 2018)

[]KAOS[]Casey said:


> The _original_ developers deserve the cash. A lot of these developers/companies are long defunct, or even their staff could be dead.
> 
> I can't buy a copy of oh.. I don't know.. Miracle Warriors for the Master System because i loved the game as a kid _and_ have money go to the original devs. I'd have to buy it used. But what If I do want to give the original devs money? I just can't. I would be ok with paying a small license fee.. maybe 5 bucks or something to allow me to legally download a ROM for use in emulators


That's a brilliant idea actually, and I think it might be feasible to negotiate with developers still in existence as long as it only applied to games/software which has gone 20+ years without updates, for example.  Of course, stuff like N64 and GCN (quickly coming up on 20 years old) could have a slightly higher price tag per download ($15 - $30), with some portion of that ($5 - $10) still going to the original developers so that third-party ROMs are possible too.

Then again, Nintendo would have more N64/GCN profits on lock down if they'd just release VC for both on Switch.


----------



## Zeldaplayer67 (Nov 12, 2018)

I hope someone makes a gofundme to help them pay off their debt because there is no way in hell they could pay off 12 million by themselves.


----------



## Paulsar99 (Nov 12, 2018)

Fuck nintendo for trying to kill the retro scene. Hacking my switch is my way to give my big middle finger to them.


----------



## Ty_ (Nov 13, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.
> 
> Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your *OLD FOCKING GAMES???*



Suggested exactly this to my GF earlier. I'd say if the copyright owner doesn't re-release a specific game/make it available after 20 years, it should become public domain. This way Sega are covered if they want to re-release Sonic for the 80th time and make money from it, and gamers who want to experience a certain game that is no longer available to them would also be covered.

it's ridiculous that a company that clearly has no interest in a game can still pull this nonsense.


----------



## DejaSentj (Nov 13, 2018)

No one question how much he and his wife earn. you know women if your job like have nothing they will not go with you...


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Thulinma said:


> Wow. So much hate for Nintendo, when it was a judge that decided all this. Nintendo didn't *ask* for 12 million, they were *awarded* 12 million, by an impartial judge.



Not quite. He settled before the case was heard. He offered $12 million. The court then ordered him to pay it, so that he can't just turn round and claim he never offered it, forcing nintendo to sue him again. Instead non payment would be contempt of court. Settlements in civil and criminal cases are always ordered by the court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_(litigation)


----------



## eriol33 (Nov 13, 2018)

If they do a fundraising, I probably would donate. That's too harsh.


----------



## Ty_ (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Copyrights last too long, 70 years should be half that for games, music, etc. It's not like they were going to do anything with them anyway, they're just like that bratty kid in Preschool who hoards all the toys so the others can't have them.
> 
> I feel like making some videos showcasing the games I downloaded and posting them all over just to piss them off.



You can thank Disney for that, I'm sure originally it was 20 years. They're massive hypocrites BTW, benefiting of public domain works while extending copyright themselves.


----------



## Phenj (Nov 13, 2018)

that's why piracy is good, kids


----------



## Thulinma (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Not quite. He settled before the case was heard. He offered $12 million. The court then ordered him to pay it, so that he can't just turn round and claim he never offered it, forcing nintendo to sue him again. Settlements in civil and criminal cases are always ordered by the court.


Well, then even better: they discussed it and both agreed to this amount. The judge didn't even have to decide. What is the problem here? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Ty_ (Nov 13, 2018)

Phenj said:


> that's why piracy is good, kids



Depends, it's not black and white. You have the example of the Cuphead Developers, who put out a decent game at a reasonable price, and mortgaged their house to pay for development. Feels unfair to pirate Cuphead unless it's for demo purposes.

Nintendo on the other hand I have zero sympathy for, same with Disney.


----------



## Phenj (Nov 13, 2018)

Ty_ said:


> Depends, it's not black and white. You have the example of the Cuphead Developers, who put out a decent game at a reasonable price, and mortgaged their house to pay for development. Feels unfair to pirate Cuphead unless it's for demo purposes.
> 
> Nintendo on the other hand I have zero sympathy for, same with Disney.


I'm talking about AAA companies, of course


----------



## whateverg1012 (Nov 13, 2018)

Now to wait for Nintendo to reupload these same roms and charge us for them.


----------



## bi388 (Nov 13, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> Most people wouldn't mind it, if ninty still sold the games so that you can actually get them.


To be fair they are still selling most of them. Not on switch for some stupid reason, but most retro games people actually care about are on 3ds and wii u for sale. 

That being said, obviously this is excessive.


----------



## ChaosEternal (Nov 13, 2018)

Ty_ said:


> You can thank Disney for that, I'm sure originally it was 20 years. They're massive hypocrites BTW, benefiting of public domain works while extending copyright themselves.


Regardless of how sure you are, you'd be (mostly) wrong. The Copyright Act of 1790 established a term of 14 years, but that could be extended another 14 if the author was still alive after the first term ended. The Copyright Act of 1831 changes this to 28 years for the first term. Hence, the only situation you are correct in is pre-1831 and only if the author didn't renew the copyright. Disney, obviously, had nothing to do with this as they weren't founded until 1923. If we're talking about more modern Copyright standards then perhaps Disney had a large role in things (I'd need to properly research it), but you seem to be implying that Disney had a hand in events that occurred nearly a century before it was founded.


----------



## deinonychus71 (Nov 13, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> Fuck Nintendo.
> As a matter effect I’ll always buy their console illegally so they loose money and never buy a game from them.
> 
> I wish Sega was still here and killed this Stupid Company that went downhill.
> ...



You do realize that the people you're trying to "hurt" have nothing to do with the corporate idiots who do that kind of thing... right?
Or is that yet another way to try and justify piracy?


----------



## Windaga (Nov 13, 2018)

I get that some people feel they wouldn't need to pirate if Nintendo had all of their games in a massive catalogue that was up to date and fairly priced. And sure enough, I believe there are people that would love to use such a service.

But no one is believing everyone, or even a significant amount of people would just stop pirating if this was a real thing. There would always be an excuse.

"It's too expensive for what it is" - regardless of price.

"I shouldn't have to buy a Switch to play a 20 year old game."

"I owned it before, so I shouldn't have to pay for it again."

These guys got destroyed and its highlighting the downsides of the community. Not everyone who pirates is bad, and I genuinely believe if a readily available , fairly priced service existed, some of you would stop pirating.

Just not many. There will always be an excuse. This is just the world we live in, with the customers we live with. I love you guys, but this is crazy. There's no justification for this reaction. These guys got caught doing something illegal and got reamed for it. That's it.


----------



## Ty_ (Nov 13, 2018)

ChaosEternal said:


> but you seem to be implying that Disney had a hand in events that occurred nearly a century before it was founded.



*Obviously* that's not what I meant


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Ty_ said:


> You can thank Disney for that



Disney gets the blame, but that is fake news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act


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## XDel (Nov 13, 2018)

How do they figure this is a loss in sales...
...how can they prove that the downloaders ever had any intention to purchase each and every one of those video games anyhow? Further more, the majority of the games on such sights are not even available in any form except used or unofficial repo, so when it all comes down to it, this is a bit extreme. 

On that note, is it not a terrible fucking irony that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all had issues apparently with suicide attempts at their factories. So as a resolve, they merely put jump nets around the building to catch them. 
Mind you, I do not know for sure, I was not there, I do not know the work conditions, pay, and so on first hand, but if what I have heard is true, then this it is pathetic to see the video game giants come down so hard on individuals, but do not come down hard upon their own lack of humanity. 

Further more, even if these allegations were false, it is a fact that many of the scarce resources required to run our electronic devices such as the iPhone, are located smack down in the middle of war zones in Africa among other places, and in the business world, it is not in the least uncommon to pay off, or hire soldiers to protect business interest while warfare and blood shed is coming down hard upon those who live in the surrounding regions. 

Meanwhile, we go to Wal-Mart and pick up the games, systems, and gadgets upon release, and when checking out at the cash register, we are asked if we would like to contribute to this humanitarian charity or that. 

If anyone civilization has made itself worthy of fire and brimstone, that would be this technological, global, bull shit that we're in the middle of now.


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## brickmii82 (Nov 13, 2018)

XDel said:


> How do they figure this is a loss in sales...
> ...how can they prove that the downloaders ever had any intention to purchase each and every one of those video games anyhow? Further more, the majority of the games on such sights are not even available in any form except used or unofficial repo, so when it all comes down to it, this is a bit extreme.
> 
> On that note, is it not a terrible fucking irony that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all had issues apparently with suicide attempts at their factories. So as a resolve, they merely put jump nets around the building to catch them.
> ...


Join me in Team Joker, where we just wanna see the world burn!


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## H1B1Esquire (Nov 13, 2018)

Geez....imagine what SEGA would do to char-char if they knew she "borrowed" "Ow The Edge" for Gamecube.

Good times.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

I honestly don't understand the butthurt going on around here... They screwed up.. of their own apparition.. Got caught.. and are now facing the consequences of their actions. "Burrr Nintendo being assholes!" It never ceases to amaze me how bad the entitlement is around here.. Not to mention the fact that some of you are using this as an excuse to pirate. Oi vey.


----------



## brollikk (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I honestly don't understand the butthurt going on around here... They screwed up.. of their own apparition.. Got caught.. and are now facing the consequences of their actions. "Burrr Nintendo being assholes!" It never ceases to amaze me how bad the entitlement is around here.. Not to mention the fact that some of you are using this as an excuse to pirate. Oi vey.


yep I agree. the guy took a huge risk running a site like that.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I honestly don't understand the butthurt going on around here... They screwed up.. of their own apparition.. Got caught.. and are now facing the consequences of their actions. "Burrr Nintendo being assholes!" It never ceases to amaze me how bad the entitlement is around here.. Not to mention the fact that some of you are using this as an excuse to pirate. Oi vey.



What pisses me off the most, is that they defend the IP, but don't provide any legal avenue for most of their library. They're sitting on a goldmine, and won't do anything, but give us a piss poor selection on Switch. If only they would have  more robust eShop.


----------



## DinohScene (Nov 13, 2018)

LOL @ everybody crying "fuck you nintendo"
It's their IP, they got the right to take action against those that infringe it.

Piracy is bad n what not.
Site owner knew this.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Piracy is bad, sure, but I still don't care about older games being pirated  

*Plays the 100+ ROMs on the Super NT*

Maybe he should've been more anonymous and made a fake name.


----------



## Euphonique (Nov 13, 2018)

12 Million Dollars?! Are you serious?!
I loved Nintendo because they were not such dumbass, greedy bastards like Sony.. But now..? I think this will be the last console from them.
You can‘t even buy most of their old nostalgic games.. You have to pirate, if you want to play them.
And yes.. It was illegal to distribute them. But I can‘t help.. 12 million is really cruel and I feel sorry for him and his wife. They destroyed their life.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> LOL @ everybody crying "fuck you nintendo"
> It's their IP, they got the right to take action against those that infringe it.
> 
> Piracy is bad n what not.
> Site owner knew this.


Exactly! It doesn't matter that some of you disagree with this. They were well within their rights to do this, and the site owners knew *or SHOULD have known* the repercussions this was going to bring.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

XDel said:


> How do they figure this is a loss in sales...
> ...how can they prove that the downloaders ever had any intention to purchase each and every one of those video games anyhow?



They obviously can't prove every single case. They therefore have to take a view.

It would certainly not achieve justice if the court said "because you can't prove every case, we'll assume none of these are lost sales."

You also can't prove in a murder case that the person wouldn't have died spontaneously at the exact same moment if you hadn't shot them.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

Euphonique said:


> 12 Million Dollars?! Are you serious?!
> I loved Nintendo because they were not such dumbass, greedy bastards like Sony.. But now..? I think this will be the last console from them.
> You can‘t even buy most of their old nostalgic games.. You have to pirate, if you want to play them.
> And yes.. It was illegal to distribute them. But I can‘t help.. 12 million is really cruel and I feel sorry for him and his wife. They destroyed their life.


Kind of their fault. You play with fire, you're going to get burned.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 13, 2018)

Something which doesn't make sense for me is why he had to hand over the domains? Or did he do it on his own? The domains themself infringe no copyright laws. Forcing him to shut down the sites is enough.


----------



## Euphonique (Nov 13, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> LOL @ everybody crying "fuck you nintendo"
> It's their IP, they got the right to take action against those that infringe it.
> 
> Piracy is bad n what not.
> Site owner knew this.



Yeah, maybe the law is right, but the judgement is out of bounds here.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Euphonique said:


> Yeah, maybe the law is right, but the judgement is out of bounds here.



The court didn't calculate damages, it was decided between Jacob and Nintendo. If he can't afford to pay it then he may as well have not bothered offering it.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

ghjfdtg said:


> Something which doesn't make sense for me is why he had to hand over the domains? Or did he do it on his own? The domains themself infringe no copyright laws. Forcing him to shut down the sites is enough.


The association the domains brought.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Kind of their fault. You play with fire, you're going to get burned.


A very valid point, yes, it was very much illegal to distribute pirated goods, however, the way Nintendo is sitting on a potential goldmine, and not providing more digital goods is damning at best. They could
be more than trickle three damn games per month, more than NES games, but of course they decide to hoard the IP, which I remind people, most of the games they're not even profiting from. ROMs can be seen as a way to preserve, but this is just bullshit.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> The association the domains brought.



Right, even if the sites were turned into something legal then the returning 17 million people a month would have made it valuable.

The damages are to nullify any gains he made, if he's still got something valuable at the end of it then it hasn't achieved justice.

As you get older you change from the "it's not fair, everything should be available to everyone" to "it's not fair that I sold my golden nintendo cartridge twenty years ago for $10, I could buy a car with the proceeds now".


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> A very valid point, yes, it was very much illegal to distribute pirated goods, however, the way Nintendo is sitting on a potential goldmine, and not providing more digital goods is damning at best. They could
> be more than trickle three damn games per month, more than NES games, but of course they decide to hoard the IP, which I remind people, most of the games they're not even profiting from. ROMs can be seen as a way to preserve, but this is just bullshit.


Which is fine. However, there's a very distinct difference between preserving them and illegally distributing them.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Which is fine. However, there's a very distinct difference between preserving them and illegally distributing them.



And an even bigger difference between illegally distributing them for cost or at a loss and running a business that makes a profit from illegally distributing them.

I'm surprised that CEmu has survived for so long with it's patreon.


----------



## blawar (Nov 13, 2018)

I don't know if this has been stated yet, but don't feel too bad for the rom site owners.  They will promptly file for bankruptcy, and deal with bad credit for 7-10 years.


----------



## yanhaot (Nov 13, 2018)

Wow this thread is so... idk what to say. When a person infringes on copyright and illegally distribute roms, of course he's gonna get hit hard.

It doesn't matter whether the old games get forgotten or not, it's nintendo's property and they get to decide what to do with it, not some 'public preservation of art for the education of future generation'.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> And an even bigger difference between illegally distributing them for cost or at a loss and running a business that makes a profit from illegally distributing them.
> 
> I'm surprised that CEmu has survived for so long with it's patreon.


That's because CEMU asks for donations for the devs to continue working, they don't profit from or host the ROMs/WiiU system files.


----------



## Jayro (Nov 13, 2018)

I sure am glad "no-inrto ROM sets" exist, because damn... It's hard downloading ROMs anymore these days.


----------



## Rabbid4240 (Nov 13, 2018)

Where do we go now?


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## Owenge (Nov 13, 2018)

This is sickening.... I think they should pay a fee but not this much


----------



## Illuminaticy (Nov 13, 2018)

SexySpai said:


> Where do we go now?


Can't tell if you're serious or not


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 13, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That's because CEMU asks for donations for the devs to continue working, they don't profit from or host the ROMs/WiiU system files.



If they were to take action against anyone I am sure they will now be directing their attention to the Yuzu developers as it can now play a handful of retail games from start to finish (albeit buggy and slow). Since these emulators have been built from scratch they are (currently) legally fair game but considering how scummy Nintendo has become lately, who knows they might try and do?


----------



## XDel (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> They obviously can't prove every single case. They therefore have to take a view.
> 
> It would certainly not achieve justice if the court said "because you can't prove every case, we'll assume none of these are lost sales."
> 
> You also can't prove in a murder case that the person wouldn't have died spontaneously at the exact same moment if you hadn't shot them.



What sort of argument are you trying to make here and to what end exactly?


----------



## Jimbo_Slim (Nov 13, 2018)

Pirating *old* games wouldn't be a problem if Nintendo would just sell all of 'em for like $0.05 or somewhere around that range. Who the hell these days pays $8 for a game on the SNES that came out on launch. Ninty Online only offers the NES stuff, a console that's very dated due to the fact that there's no saving and most of the games are short and simple. We need stuff like Gamecube and N64 to be sold (Yes, I know N64 was on Wii U but still limited). If they won't do that, make a mega collection like SEGA or start making old consoles again (Minis feel too digital).


----------



## CoolStarDood (Nov 13, 2018)

I understand Nintendo wants to set a standard, (even though roms of older games hardly (if at all) effect a company like Nintendo) but this was just a dick move, a (slightly) more reasonable approach would have been to take a % of his earnings, as this guy is probably gonna have to take out a loan that he will never be able to pay back.

Or maybe he could go to gofundme or something.


----------



## deinonychus71 (Nov 13, 2018)

Fusion Luigi said:


> Pirating *old* games wouldn't be a problem if Nintendo would just sell all of 'em for like $0.05 or somewhere around that range. Who the hell these days pays $8 for a game on the SNES that came out on launch. Ninty Online only offers the NES stuff, a console that's very dated due to the fact that there's no saving and most of the games are short and simple. We need stuff like Gamecube and N64 to be sold (Yes, I know N64 was on Wii U but still limited). If they won't do that, make a mega collection like SEGA or start making old consoles again (Minis feel too digital).



ROMs are digital, too 
I'm not saying Nintendo is doing everything they can to provide a proper legal offer, but it's not easy to provide said offer. A lot of old games would be a nightmare to license today. That's just how it is.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 13, 2018)

Another day, another ROM site. Been like that for as long as I can remember. Will likely be the same in the future as well. Nothing I can see feeling especially aggrieved over, indeed I find it quite bizarre that anybody would be more than "damn, quite liked them for downloading from". There are a million more sites, other methods and a million more waiting in the wings to upload and otherwise make available. Nintendo even acted well within the intent and spirit of the law in this case.



Kubas_inko said:


> How many years is it?



Choice video


----------



## Necron (Nov 13, 2018)

Sevarg said:


> If they were to take action against anyone I am sure they will now be directing their attention to the Yuzu developers as it can now play a handful of retail games from start to finish (albeit buggy and slow). Since these emulators have been built from scratch they are (currently) legally fair game but considering how scummy Nintendo has become lately, who knows they might try and do?



The fight with emulators is a lost cause. Many have tried, but none have succeded. While it doesn't include any of Nintendo's code, then they're very legal.


----------



## Song of storms (Nov 13, 2018)

I hoped there'd be a decent discussion about this, but it turned into a circlejerk pretty quickly. Sad. It's almost like, as a multi-billion dollar company, you're supposed to protect your assets. And when some random person think to be so untouchable that they hosts your copyrighted material in US servers, everyone bitches that someone who tried to turn thousands of monthly "quick bucks" in the easiest way possible should be freed instead.

Anyway, Nintendo is literally Hitler if he was a gamer and EA is bad too. Let that sink in.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

deinonychus71 said:


> ROMs are digital, too
> I'm not saying Nintendo is doing everything they can to provide a proper legal offer, but it's not easy to provide said offer. A lot of old games would be a nightmare to license today. That's just how it is.



What about first party games? Nintendo owns the rights to them, there is literally no excuse not to allow those to be digitally purchased.

Third party games are one thing, but their own IP, they have no excuse at all. There are no licensing issues with first party games. They're just being stingy.


----------



## Rabbid4240 (Nov 13, 2018)

Illuminaticy said:


> Can't tell if you're serious or not


I'm serious, where do we get our roms now?


----------



## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

Game companies don't care about preservation.


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## Captain_N (Nov 13, 2018)

Damn Nintendo did not even have to use a master ball to capture them sites. I dont think those sites made anything close to 12 mil..

If anyone here is truly mad at nintendo for taking down these sites then why are you still giving nintendo your time and money? Sell all your nintendo stuff and be done with it. Anyone actually have the will?

Im not mad at nintendo. They have the right to protect their property.
That said, having a site like that up is playing russian roulette. eventually your gonna loose. True pirates dont use those rom sites anyways. Even DC++ is a better place to get goodies from....
That eye site is amazing for roms.... I wonder why they are still kicking....


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

Exaltys said:


> Game companies don't care about preservation.


There's a half assed excuse for these sites if I've seen one.


----------



## brickmii82 (Nov 13, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> Damn Nintendo did not even have to use a master ball to capture them sites. I dont think those sites made anything close to 12 mil..
> 
> If anyone here is truly mad at nintendo for taking down these sites then why are you still giving nintendo your time and money? Sell all your nintendo stuff and be done with it. Anyone actually have the will?
> 
> ...


True pirates use blunderbuss’ and scimitars


----------



## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> There's a half assed excuse for these sites if I've seen one.



I never did weigh in on the morality of hosting roms. I just stated that companies don't care about preservation. Ideally, I'd say I'd want to see the hosting site just try to recoup hosting costs. The upkeep to provide the doorway for gamers to play older games.

For old games that have no rerelease, it isn't as if the original company can even get through the licensing to rerelease them or would they make money from someone buying a used copy.


----------



## Carnelian (Nov 13, 2018)

Glad i destroyed my Wii U.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 13, 2018)

Carnelian said:


> Glad i destroyed my Wii U.


Lol you already paid for it, the only person that hurts is you.


----------



## Garro (Nov 13, 2018)

I can only think the amount was calculated as "$X for every download count" for the debt to skyrocket like that. I hope that it's just a scare tactics though, a debt like that destroys life.

On an unrelated note, this thread did become a huge bait for entitled gamers.


----------



## grossaffe (Nov 13, 2018)

I can't believe the amount of vitriol over Nintendo defending its IP from a very clear infringement committed for profit.


----------



## Captain_N (Nov 13, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Lol you already paid for it, the only person that hurts is you.


Yeah you could have sold it.....


----------



## th3joker (Nov 13, 2018)

i wonder how much the site owner actually made off the site from ads in its lifetime?


----------



## kuwanger (Nov 13, 2018)

Exaltys said:


> I just stated that companies don't care about preservation.



Yea, this is already known.  It's why there's an archivist exception in copyright which is routinely extended in various ways (like the recent DMCA exemption for archivists).  The calls for preservation is no reasonably basis to argue that people should be able to host copyrighted material they don't own/have rights to.  If you care about copyright being too long, lobby to change the law in that area.  If you care about preservation, push your local archivists (also known as a library) to do more to preserve games.  Have "video game night" at the local library and share what games you have with like minded people.  Violate copyright, and you suffer the legal consequences.



Exaltys said:


> For old games that have no rerelease, it isn't as if the original company can even get through the licensing to rerelease them or would they make money from someone buying a used copy.



Like it or not, this is part of why copyright exists:  to allow copyright holders to choose when and if they rerelease content to avoid too much competition in the market that may result in prices to drop.  Since I'd readily argue that (1) games 14+ years old aren't much in the way of direct competition for most gamers and (2) for where they are competition, it's mostly in the "nostalgia" factor and companies rereleasing games with little effort or consideration--*cough*Sony*cough*--, we definitely should have much shorter copyright terms.  As it stands, though, people don't have some right to just ignore copyright law because it's inconvenient.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

grossaffe said:


> I can't believe the amount of vitriol over Nintendo defending its IP from a very clear infringement committed for profit.



Not so much that as it is their refusal to offer a more affordable, legal way, ie.  the eShop. So much wasted potential. I'm even more shocked at the sycophancy at Nintendo and how they seem to accept the selection of NES games to be even remotely good. The selection sucks and you all know it.

Those poor old games, look at all the money they didn't make off of the ones that weren't digitally available. Shame.



Exaltys said:


> I never did weigh in on the morality of hosting roms. I just stated that companies don't care about preservation. Ideally, I'd say I'd want to see the hosting site just try to recoup hosting costs. The upkeep to provide the doorway for gamers to play older games.
> 
> For old games that have no rerelease, it isn't as if the original company can even get through the licensing to rerelease them or would they make money from someone buying a used copy.



I am so sick of people saying this, licensing issues aren't an issue for first party games that Nintendo themselves own. There is no reason for them to NOT release them.


----------



## Ericthegreat (Nov 13, 2018)

antiNT said:


> Is it even possible to have 12 million dollars without being Bill Gates ???


12 million, is a lot, but more people then you think have 1 million (not me  )


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Just to set the record straight:

Piracy = illicit duplication of something copyrighted
Theft = the physical/forcible removal of an object, i. e taken by force

See the difference? Yes, still illegal, but it's not the same as physically taking something.

Example: I rent a movie from Redbox, I put it in my DVD burner, rip the ISO from it, then return the disc the next day. 
I returned the disc, right? So I didn't steal the disc, I merely made an illegal copy. This is piracy. 

So please, stop the "piracy is stealing" bullshit, it's not the same, it's no less illegal, but they're not the same thing. Thanks.


----------



## Raylight (Nov 13, 2018)

I hope he doesn't have kids cause Christmas is officially dead


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 13, 2018)

damn no wonder nobody's dumping let's go (well i shouldn't say that 100%) whats next ban on vpn's and cryptography in the USA if thatt comes to be I'm rallying a war against my own country this shit will not stand with me ANY LONGER


----------



## magico29 (Nov 13, 2018)

antiNT said:


> Is it even possible to have 12 million dollars without being Bill Gates ???


Ask to chapo guzman, lord of cartels from mexico city baby!! He made billions, and his last name is not gates!!


----------



## Gunz4Hire (Nov 13, 2018)

makes me not feel bad that i literally only pirate nintendo games


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## Raylight (Nov 13, 2018)

Gunz4Hire said:


> makes me not feel bad that i literally only pirate nintendo games


don't feel bad they asking for it. so is EA and Activision


----------



## Jackson Ferrell (Nov 13, 2018)

You guys really don't get the point. He made money off of those ROMs, and it's Nintendo's Intellectual Property, they can charge what they like. You being angry at Nintendo has no justification. That's exactly what you get when you get caught pirating stuff. Don't expect it to be a walk in the park. And on top of that, both parties settled on that amount, meaning there's a reason for that being charged enough. Don't be so shallow and go off immediately without looking at everything.


----------



## urherenow (Nov 13, 2018)

Wow. The ignorance is strong in this thread. Where could Ninty claim such an amount? Where can you buy those games? Let's just take 5 seconds to google 1 headline... 

"The NES Classic is so popular it outsold the PS4, Xbox One, and Switch in June"

Each and every one of you idiots crying on this thread know it's illegal. The site owner knew it was illegal. Probably had the same "It won't happen to me" attitude that each and every one of you has. But go you... be a rebel...


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

urherenow said:


> Wow. The ignorance is strong in this thread. Where could Ninty claim such an amount? Where can you buy those games? Let's just take 5 seconds to google 1 headline... got it.
> 
> "The NES Classic is so popular it outsold the PS4, Xbox One, and Switch in June"
> 
> Each and every one of you idiots crying on this thread know it's illegal. The site owner knew it was illegal. Probably had the same "It won't happen to me" attitude that each and every one of you has. But go you... be a rebel...



Wow, the NES classic, huh? That has, what 30 games, out of about 670 ever released in NA alone? What a selection!  Sorry, but collecting and paying inflated prices to collect games is just BS, would be better to get more first party games legally through the eShop, but oh no, Nintendo had to be pantywaists about that too.  There's so much potential, they could make so much  money from this, but again, they're gonna just sit on asses doing nothing but trickle three games per month. Whoop dee doo.

30 games out of 670 is only about 4% out of the entire library. Please.


----------



## KingBlank (Nov 13, 2018)

And this is why I pirate most of my Nintendo games


----------



## Raylight (Nov 13, 2018)

urherenow said:


> Wow. The ignorance is strong in this thread. Where could Ninty claim such an amount? Where can you buy those games? Let's just take 5 seconds to google 1 headline...
> 
> "The NES Classic is so popular it outsold the PS4, Xbox One, and Switch in June"
> 
> Each and every one of you idiots crying on this thread know it's illegal. The site owner knew it was illegal. Probably had the same "It won't happen to me" attitude that each and every one of you has. But go you... be a rebel...


no one is necessarily being ignorant here and while yes it was illegal it does make one question the hardship of what that family has to pay if that rev they got was miniscule to what they gonna pay to Ninty even if it is their own fault. Also not having a way to legally buy these old games from the actual devs to support them is an argument of its own


----------



## gamesquest1 (Nov 13, 2018)

tbh this guy had that kinda money I doubt he would still be running a rom site, nintendo and this guy know they are never going to get anywhere near 12 million, they will just drain any savings and properties he might happen to have and he will file bankruptcy and start over, which sure will still be absolutely devistating to the site owner but hopefully they can move on with their life and not be too badly hurt in the process

these huge settlements are just for the press to buzz around because the reality of "guy looses his $7000 in savings" doesn't exactly draw in the crowds, nintendo probably spent 10 times that on lawyers and litigation


----------



## Reploid (Nov 13, 2018)

well fuck. But if he gonna oper crowdfund to save his ass, I'll back him up


----------



## Trash_Bandatcoot (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo just owns everything they see now.


----------



## Song of storms (Nov 13, 2018)

Exaltys said:


> I never did weigh in on the morality of hosting roms. I just stated that companies don't care about preservation. Ideally, I'd say I'd want to see the hosting site just try to recoup hosting costs. The upkeep to provide the doorway for gamers to play older games.
> 
> For old games that have no rerelease, it isn't as if the original company can even get through the licensing to rerelease them or would they make money from someone buying a used copy.


Piracy websites don't give a fuck about game preservation and surely they don't care about you either. It's maximum profit with minimum effort. Profit for what, anyway? Hosting a bunch of roms? Torrents exist.

Had these sites ever cared about "preservation", they would have an adfree website with a link for donations, or maybe just a tiny shady banner ad. You can make several thousand dollars a month with this kind of websites even if you're the billionth one on the black market. But I advise against it, for the only reason that other piracy website owners will DDoS the shit out of your little website or even try figure out who you are and harm you.


----------



## wurstpistole (Nov 13, 2018)

ThoD said:


> How did they even come up with the 12 million? I mean, put together all of the AVAILABLE titles by Nintendo currently on WiiU/3DS/Switch and I HIGHLY doubt the sales are anywhere close to that.


Yeah, I also doubt they are anywhere close to that. They're probably much, much higher


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Piracy websites don't give a fuck about game preservation and surely they don't care about you either. It's maximum profit with minimum effort. Profit for what, anyway? Hosting a bunch of roms? Torrents exist.
> 
> Had these sites ever cared about "preservation", they would have an adfree website with a link for donations, or maybe just a tiny shady banner ad. You can make several thousand dollars a month with this kind of websites even if you're the billionth one on the black market. But I advise against it, for the only reason that other piracy website owners will DDoS the shit out of your little website or even try figure out who you are and harm you.



 Do you think Nintendo cares about preservation then? They sure as hell don't, just look at how much the NES Online and VC selection suck ass. If they did, they'd actually put forth effort, but they won't. To me, it sounds like it's better for ROM sites to die off than to count on Nintendo doing the same.


----------



## Song of storms (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Do you think Nintendo cares about preservation then? They sure as hell don't, just look at how much the NES Online and VC selection suck ass. If they did, they'd actually put forth effort, but they won't. To me, it sounds like it's better for ROM sites to die off than to count on Nintendo doing the same.


If you care so much about game preservation you can torrent out your romsets. Just remember that's illegal.


----------



## leonmagnus99 (Nov 13, 2018)

damn.. screw nintendo.
i loved emuparadise :C


----------



## ieatpixels (Nov 13, 2018)

Complete bogus. 
Practically ruin the guy's life because he allowed some 10 year olds to play unobtainable games from 20 years ago on their computer.
It's not like Nintendo would be 12 million dollars richer if it weren't for the site. 

When this happens it makes me want to refrain from purchasing any Classic Mini consoles, Virtual Console titles, or retro compilation games because it's these re-releases that are causing these take downs to happen.


----------



## Frankbel (Nov 13, 2018)

I used to be a Nintendo strong supporter, but bs like this in years has made changing my mind. Now I don't care about them too much. They don't even produce the great games as they did in the past. There are a few exceptions, just not enough.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Arrrrgggg I got a lawsuit coming me way.



Memoir said:


> Which is fine. However, there's a very distinct difference between preserving them and illegally distributing them.


Preserving them to illegally distribute them.


----------



## xxNathanxx (Nov 13, 2018)

nando said:


> right. like unlocking iphones for the fbi. come up with actual examples are shut up. you can hate apple but they are far better than petty ass nintendo.


Did you miss the part where the very day before the FBI was supposedly going to take Apple to court, the FBI suddenly dropped all charges and simply used one of the backdoors? Did you also miss *all* of the NSA documents where Apple is shown very clearly to be a part of all of the same spying programs as all of the other companies? Do you think they're only in there for fun?

And where did I even compare Apple and Nintendo?


----------



## Localhorst86 (Nov 13, 2018)

it's scare tactics. Nintendo knows full well he can't pay 12 Million dollars nor will they ever see any substantial ammount of money from this. Mathias will have to declare bankruptcy and be free of the $12 Million debt in a few years.

Not saying it's nice or that it's not annoying, but he will be able to live a normal life 5 years from now.

Nintendo's goal never was to get any (substantial ammount of) money from him though, it's goal was to make an example off him for others to look at. And that worked out just fine for them. With ROM sites taking down ROMs left and right and even some private retro-trackers taking down the no-intro torrents because of the nintendo roms contained within.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Nov 13, 2018)

reality is a good middle ground would be for companies to just sell the damn roms for a buck or 2 each without drm. didnt sega do something similar on steam a few years back?
of course nintendo is a dinosaur of a company with a fetish of clinging to old ways so doubt it will change any time soon.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Cubuss said:


> Nintendo is fucking gangster,


Nintendo was always gangsta. They stopped VG rental service in Japan. They use their power to get their way like a G.
Guy not able to pay 12 million? No Fucks were given on this lawsuit.


----------



## Kigiru (Nov 13, 2018)

12 millions for roms of games that Nintendo did not care to rerelease besides like 20 of them or so?
What kind of loss Nintendo claim to get? Most people that download roms are uninterested in purchasing their consoles and will not care to purchase their consoles even if your purge all the fucking roms. These 12 millions are made-up, and if Nintendo want to play the "made-up money" game then they have more to made-up because i'll not pay for their shit, simple.


----------



## dimmidice (Nov 13, 2018)

12 million? What math did they use? Every rom downloaded = full price of game when it came out?


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Nov 13, 2018)

they obviously counter the downloads for stadium events and figured they multiply it times 10 just for good measure.


----------



## samedifference (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo can eat shit; They've demonstrated quite enough over the years that they're not willing to preserve their old games properly and make them easily accessible to everybody. This is absolutely excessive, and I can only assume that they're pretty much just doing this shit as some kind of twisted stunt to make an example. ROM hosting sites do what Nintendo will never do, period. Hearing news like this just makes me unreasonable irritated.


----------



## Justinde75 (Nov 13, 2018)

I can understand Nintendo not wanting people to get the roms, but man 12 million?

This honestly really sucks for Nintendo. Alot of people play older versions of games and then become a fan of them. Alot of people that I know started with roms of games like smash bros, pokemon and other nintendo games. They now buy all of the games that come out on the switch. They dont sell most of the retro games the site offered on ton the switch, so I dont see the harm on letting rom sites host. I'd only tell them to take away ads.
Its also pretty funny that he is forced to pay the "damages" as if that caused so much damage.


----------



## Delerious (Nov 13, 2018)

I can't help but wonder if these lawsuits would ever have happened if Iwata were still around. It seems like Nintendo became more dickish since he died. Granted though, I don't know a whole lot of their history when it comes to past legal shit, apart from patent lawsuits against them. Rationally, the guy should have known better than to cross Nintendo, as I imagine they gave him a cease and desist letter. Such is usually the case with these things. But still, why now? Why, at this moment, does Nintendo suddenly "care" about their old properties enough that they want to push for lawsuits against people, and essentially start a war on emulation? It seems like they're just out to make a little extra cash on the side from these petty lawsuits.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Delerious said:


> I can't help but wonder if these lawsuits would ever have happened if Iwata were still around. It seems like Nintendo became more dickish since he died. Granted though, I don't know a whole lot of their history when it comes to past legal shit, apart from patent lawsuits against them. Rationally, the guy should have known better than to cross Nintendo, as I imagine they gave him a cease and desist letter. Such is usually the case with these things. But still, why now? Why, at this moment, does Nintendo suddenly "care" about their old properties enough that they want to push for lawsuits against people, and essentially start a war on emulation? It seems like they're just out to make a little extra cash on the side from these petty lawsuits.


Nintendo was pretty bad with lawsuits in the past. They made video game rentals illegal in Japan to stop piracy.
The only way to offer rentals is to get permission from publishers. They were always uptight on piracy and cracked down hard.


----------



## marazzmatika (Nov 13, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> There should be a law (just like with music), that after xx years, it should be free to use and share.
> 
> Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your *OLD FOCKING GAMES???*


Nerntendo Smeech still hasn't normal VC. They are pretty greedy...


----------



## Delerious (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Nintendo was pretty bad with lawsuits in the past. They made video game rentals illegal in Japan to stop piracy.
> The only way to offer rentals is to get permission from publishers. They were always uptight on piracy and cracked down hard.



Yeesh, I think they have a pretty unhealthy fetish going on here. I mean, they can only fuck so many people until they get an STD.


----------



## lordelan (Nov 13, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> How the fuck is a family man supposed to pay that amount?


You don't seem to know how much money a well visited website earns you.


----------



## depaul (Nov 13, 2018)

Poor man and his wife, and his kids...
If the man had 12 Millions do you think he would be making living from hosting rom site? At the best he could make 2000$ a month. So how could the law charge him over 12M$ as damage? Do you think this law is fair? Nintendo could simply have sued all of his hardware


----------



## DaveLister (Nov 13, 2018)

Queue DR evil meme with pinky held to mouth .


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Delerious said:


> Yeesh, I think they have a pretty unhealthy fetish going on here. I mean, they can only fuck so many people until they get an STD.


STD=Suing To Destroy

They tried to make VG rentals illegal in the United States but nothing happened luckily. That's one STD they didn't spread.


----------



## Condemned87 (Nov 13, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> How the fuck is a family man supposed to pay that amount?
> And what damages is Nintendo claiming?
> Sorry but that's bullshit, Nintendo loses nothing out from ROMs being shared online (outside of current gen consoles) and there is no way someone like Mathias will ever be able to pay such an absurd amount.
> 
> Fuck you, Nintendo.



Because of Nintendos Mini Classic Series?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



CrashMidnick said:


> I think the Switch will be the last console I buy from them. Nintendo you lost a customer. Thanks for not playing your games in the future.



That is so stupid. You are pissed because Nintendo are protecting their own old games against piracy? Seriously?


----------



## Lucifer666 (Nov 13, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
> Unforgivable!!! /s
> 
> Seriously though, this guy chose to make money with his site by uploading ROMs, so I really can't be bothered to feel sorry for him. He should've known Nintendo would come for him.


It's not like there's a legal way to pay Nintendo to play N64 games besides the limited selection of virtual console stuff. Pretty much all the retros are simply not profitable for them anymore because they don't even sell them (again, besides VC & stuff like that), so it honestly makes no sense for them to be bothered enough to ruin a man's life with debt he will most likely never pay off.

EDIT: Now I'm real curious, is there truly no way to anonymously register a domain and host a site?


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

XDel said:


> What sort of argument are you trying to make here and to what end exactly?



Debunking your statement.

"how can they prove that the downloaders ever had any intention to purchase each and every one of those video games anyhow?"

They don't have to prove it, in the same way they don't have to prove the victim in a murder trial would have lived anyway.

It's enough that you had the intention to violate nintendos rights in the course of operating a business.


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

Condemned87 said:


> That is so stupid. You are pissed because Nintendo are protecting their own old games against piracy? Seriously?



No, because there were not only Nintendo roms on those sites... Other companies are not doing that, only Nintendo does. Shame on them. I am pretty sure that they downloaded roms from this site to build their nes and SNES classic mini lol.
On top of that, emulation is not all about piracy. It is also keeping alive old games to be able to show them to our kids.

Nintendo is stupid, your comment too.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Fusion Luigi said:


> Pirating *old* games wouldn't be a problem if Nintendo would just sell all of 'em for like $0.05 or somewhere around that range.



If Lambourghini sold their cars for $50 then nobody would steal them.

Nintendo have higher costs than some guy setting up a rom site.



CoolStarDood said:


> a (slightly) more reasonable approach would have been to take a % of his earnings



What would you consider the right %? From the point of justice it surely has to be 100%.

Until we have access to his accounts, I'm going to assume that he made enough money to be able to afford to pay the $12 million.

Nobody is going to lend him $12 million (go on, see how hard it is to borrow that much money). So if he doesn't have it then he'll be going bankrupt pretty soon & not paying it anyway.



the_randomizer said:


> Just to set the record straight:
> 
> Piracy = illicit duplication of something copyrighted
> Theft = the physical/forcible removal of an object, i. e taken by force



No, Piracy is "the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea."

You can't just use the dictionary definition of Theft but then use a different definition of Piracy as a basis for your argument about how they aren't the same thing.

You are depriving the copyright holder of their exclusive right to control copies, that is what you are stealing. The whole "you can't download a car" is just a stupid argument made by people who want to break the law.



CrashMidnick said:


> Other companies are not doing that, only Nintendo does. Shame on them.



Not all women report being raped either, does that mean the ones that do should be ignored?



CrashMidnick said:


> I am pretty sure that they downloaded roms from this site to build their nes and SNES classic mini lol.



So? It's legally ok for them to do it as they have the ability to authorise the copies that are downloaded.



CrashMidnick said:


> On top of that, emulation is not all about piracy. It is also keeping alive old games to be able to show them to our kids.



You are perfectly within your rights to buy old consoles and games to show to your kids.

Or do you mean "Look kids, this is how we used to violate copyright law in the old days".


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Until we have access to his accounts, I'm going to assume that he made enough money to be able to afford to pay the $12 million.


of course he can these ROM SITES make a fucking fortune from advertising, affiliates and donations and/or subsctiptions. you think they just do this for a hobby? don't think so they're in it for one reason $


----------



## eyeliner (Nov 13, 2018)

If they settled, it's because he can pay, maybe?
I'm glad i'm pirating on the Switch. This is uncalled for.
At a time the videogame market is the greatest economy worldwide, this is an act of greed.


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Not all women report being raped either, does that mean the ones that do should be ignored?



Strange comparison...



smf said:


> So? It's legally ok for them to do it as they have the ability to authorise the copies that are downloaded.



If they close all rom sites, where can I download roms of games that I own ?




smf said:


> You are perfectly within your rights to buy old consoles and games to show to your kids.
> 
> Or do you mean "Look kids, this is how we used to violate copyright law in the old days".



Lol, and when we will not be able to connect those consoles to modern devices, what would you do ? Look at them on shelves ?

I am pretty sure that I can find in your house plenty of examples to say the thing to your kids.


----------



## Reecey (Nov 13, 2018)

antiNT said:


> Is it even possible to have 12 million dollars without being Bill Gates ???


Cause it is, if you own a successful business then turning over 4 million “3 mill per annum in pound sterling” it’s quite possible. He might have the collateral tied in buildings houses development etc.. he might have to sell of assets to pay for the damages. I doubt very much they will pay it, they will probably file for bankruptcy go into liquidation.


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## geodeath (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo, the only company in the world that prefers making money from settlements, than actually making games for a huge back catalog of IPs they own. If you count their releases and lawsuits, there are more busy in the legal side than the hardware or software side.


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## Phenj (Nov 13, 2018)

"hurr durr, Nintendo is doing a good thing!!"
ok libtard, you are free to pay 60$ for 30yo old games, and I'm free to use coolcool sites and play those games for free


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## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

CrashMidnick said:


> Strange comparison...



Pick any crime which generally goes unreported. They all make your argument look weird.



CrashMidnick said:


> If they close all rom sites, where can I download roms of games that I own ?



You don't have the legal right to do that. You can back the cartridges up that you own.



CrashMidnick said:


> Lol, and when we will not be able to connect those consoles to modern devices, what would you do ? Look at them on shelves ?



Buy a converter.



Phenj said:


> "hurr durr, Nintendo is doing a good thing!!"
> ok libtard, you are free to pay 60$ for 30yo old games, and I'm free to use coolcool sites and play those games for free



And people are free to kill you. Free will is great huh? No need for any laws at all ever.


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## ItsMetaKnight (Nov 13, 2018)

Does that mean the roms that were downloaded there have now been legally paid for?


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## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

ItsMetaKnight said:


> Does that mean the roms that were downloaded there have now been legally paid for?



Ask @smf 
He has got an answer to everything


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

ItsMetaKnight said:


> Does that mean the roms that were downloaded there have now been legally paid for?



No, but do you care?



CrashMidnick said:


> Ask @smf
> He has got an answer to everything



Are you always this passive aggressive when you're wrong?


----------



## VitaType (Nov 13, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> Fuck Nintendo.
> As a matter effect I’ll always buy their console illegally so they loose money and never buy a game from them.


And because you saw exactly this comeing you already begun with this practice of "buying there console illegal and never buy a game from them" many many years ago? Sure 
What should that even mean that you "buy their console illegally"?


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Are you always this passive aggressive when you're wrong?


Sorry mate, was just a bad joke.


----------



## XDel (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Debunking your statement.
> 
> "how can they prove that the downloaders ever had any intention to purchase each and every one of those video games anyhow?"
> 
> ...



Well no, everyone dies some time so eventually they would have died anyhow, via nature or what have you, rather than as a result of suicide, or being caught in the middle of a war.

And again, the freaking war zones man. These rare minerals and what have you don't just spring out of utopias. There are always two reasons behind conquest and warefare. Trade routes, and lucrative resources. So what ever humanitarian movies these companies and the countries that support them may be spewing, they are knee deep in blood money and have not right to ruin a couple of guy's lives over some stupid cartoon characters and games that aren't even being sold any more anyhow, and in regards to those roms that are...
...well you certainly can't tell me that Nintendo has been relying upon Super Mario Bros. 3 sales, to bring in the millions.


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> You are perfectly within your rights to buy old consoles and games to show to your kids.



You're also perfectly within your rights to dump a cart and run it in an emulator. This is really a seperate issue.

Of course nintendo is well within it's rights to stop the distribution of their copyrighted material.
On the other hand, it doesn't change anything. You won't be able to censor the internet or make roms inaccessible.

Let's face it, the reason people pirate retro games is that for a lot of them it's just a superior experience compared to the original or even commercial emulators. Loading different games is easy, it won't take up space, you get save states, you get visual improvements with shaders, you can play the games online. People have also shown a willingness to put money towards emulator development on Patreon for example.

If you have a legit interest in combating piracy then maybe start by giving the consumers of your content a non sub-par experience if they purchase games through official channels. Nintendo had every opportunity to put a wifi module into the NES or SNES classic and sell a Netflix like subscription with it, that would've been a good start.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> On the other hand, it doesn't change anything. You won't be able to censor the internet or make roms inaccessible.



Right, so I'm not sure why the SJW are so anti Nintendo because of it. They just took down someone who was making money out of it.



supersonicwaffle said:


> ...well you certainly can't tell me that Nintendo has been relying upon Super Mario Bros. 3 sales, to bring in the millions.



How is that relevant? Maybe next year they would make money out of it? As the copyright owner they legally have the choice to do it.

You might not like that, but a world without copyright law would be much worse.



XDel said:


> Well no, everyone dies some time so eventually they would have died anyhow, via nature or what have you, rather than as a result of suicide, or being caught in the middle of a war.



Or the example I gave, which was murder. So everyone is going to die anyway, so murder should be fine? Is that what you're saying?


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Right, so I'm not sure why the SJW are so anti Nintendo because of it. They just took down someone who was making money out of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok we understood your point of view, no need to answer billion times the same things. You are becoming the SJW.

Everybody knows that they try to protect their copyrights, and of course I would do the same. But to me, what they are doing is bad. They should have sold an emulator for the price (70€) of a standard game that allow people to add Roms. 

I bought F-zero x on my N64, then on the wii eshop, then on the Wii U eshop. How many Time I will pay for that game ?


----------



## mattytrog (Nov 13, 2018)

NoNAND said:


> Tch noobs
> This is what happens when you're unexperienced


Its "inexperienced" you fucking idiot.


----------



## Localhorst86 (Nov 13, 2018)

CrashMidnick said:


> I bought F-zero x on my N64, then on the wii eshop, then on the Wii U eshop. How many Time I will pay for that game ?



As often as you fall for such a scheme.


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Right, so I'm not sure why the SJW are so anti Nintendo because of it. They just took down someone who was making money out of it.



Not sure why you bring politics into it but let my try to explain how I see the issue because I don't think it's being argued rationally.

Let's assume these points as fact:

There's demand for retro games
There's demand for an enhanced retro gaming experience
Nintendo refuses to accommodate the demand for both retro games and an enhanced experience
Nintendo actively fights to make both inaccesible
In the past, Nintendo has sold a number of retro games but refused to provide a way to transfer bought retro games to newer platforms
On the switch specifically, Nintendo only offers a tiny fraction of retro games
If you take these things into account it's not too hard to see where people are coming from. Consumers want these things. I'm willing to bet that a large portion would pay money for it. I wouldn't say it's greed because if it was they would offer what people want themselves. But it shouldn't surprise anyone that their actions are viewed negatively.


----------



## DarthDub (Nov 13, 2018)

Man, imagine if Sony and Microsoft did what Nintendo does.


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

Localhorst86 said:


> As often as you fall for such a scheme.



That is why I prefer my Xbox for such things... we are not considered as a milking cow.


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

CrashMidnick said:


> That is why I prefer my Xbox for such things... we are not considered as a milking cow.



You mean the platform that initially wanted you to not be able to sell used games is not considering you as a cow to milk?

Seriously, stop behaving like a brainwashed person. EVERY business' goal is to make money, to some degree you will be considered a cow to every single one of them! Microsoft has already tested their boundaries and failed but they will try again for sure.


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> You mean the platform that initially wanted you to not be able to sell used games is not considering you as a cow to milk?
> 
> Seriously, stop behaving like a brainwashed person. EVERY business' goal is to make money, to some degree you will be considered a cow to every single one of them! Microsoft has already tested their boundaries and failed but they will try again for sure.



No, I only mean that I can play my original xbox titles on new hardware, without buying them Again and again. 

The second part of your comment is a non sense here. And do not be rude.


----------



## Localhorst86 (Nov 13, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> You mean the platform that initially wanted you to not be able to sell used games is not considering you as a cow to milk?
> 
> Seriously, stop behaving like a brainwashed person. EVERY business' goal is to make money, to some degree you will be considered a cow to every single one of them! Microsoft has already tested their boundaries and failed but they will try again for sure.


I think he was refering to the fact that the xbox one is backwards compatible with xbox 360 and OG Xbox titles.

But I guess they only did that to incentivize sales of the Xbox one because it pretty much got annihilated by the PS4. It's the only way XBox hardware sells at this point.


----------



## murdersbane (Nov 13, 2018)

Lotta people in here need their diapers changed...

Like seriously your throwing a pissy little fit over a company protecting it's assets.... You guys are trash omfg xD


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

CrashMidnick said:


> No, I only mean that I can play my original xbox titles on new hardware, without buying them Again and again.
> 
> The second part of your comment is a non sense here. And do not be rude.



And you were able to play GB on GBC, GB and GBC on GBA, GBA on NDS, GCN on Wii, Wii on Wii U.
Backwards compatibility is very different from providing commercial emulators and usually only covers very recent generations due to its similarity to current gen hardware. Nintendo has provided backwards compatibility where applicable, going from PowerPC to ARM architecture makes it kinda impossible for the switch though which is why they're porting games instead of providing backwards compatibility.

I wasn't trying to be rude but it's a valuable life lesson. Businesses are there to make money, their strategy may or may not involve customer satisfaction. Microsoft has shown that it's willing to compromise customer satisfaction in order to make more money.


----------



## murdersbane (Nov 13, 2018)

Edit ~ can't find delete button plz remove


----------



## NoNAND (Nov 13, 2018)

mattytrog said:


> Its "inexperienced" you fucking idiot.


Ow the edge


----------



## Taffy (Nov 13, 2018)

"We are the Nintendo Legal Team! No fun allowed."

Booo! Hiss!


----------



## WonderBoom (Nov 13, 2018)

Scarlet said:


> lol imagine nintendo hosting their own shit on these sites now
> 
> (also should loveretro be .com @Chary? i was wrong)


And charge $100 per title for 1mb ancient games )


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

CrashMidnick said:


> But to me, what they are doing is bad. They should have sold an emulator for the price (70€) of a standard game that allow people to add Roms.



If they write their own emulator then it's unlikely they'll be able to make one that works with all games for that price, free emulators are heavily subsidised by peoples day jobs.



CrashMidnick said:


> I bought F-zero x on my N64, then on the wii eshop, then on the Wii U eshop. How many Time I will pay for that game ?



Similar arguments are made about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_(album) & movies like Star Wars.

From your point of view you may have an old VHS copy of Star Wars so it'll be fine to download the 4k version of it. From Disneys point of view, it's not fine. The law has to tread a fine line between the two points of view. What tends to happen is if you download it, then you are generally ok. If you sell it then you're not.


----------



## Jackson Ferrell (Nov 13, 2018)

Hey @Chary could you put something on the OG post to clarify that there are different reasons for this and it's not all what it seems? A lot of people aren't understanding and going ballistic for no reason.


----------



## Maz7006 (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo has a track record of being harsh with this stuff. We had a GBAtemp member get it quite bad back in the day over a Mario Wii game that was leaked - just a random guy not a website and that was legal action enough for them.

I wouldn't say I'm surprised by this outcome but at the same time, I don't know how I feel about the harshness in this case. It's easy to claim no harm was done but to some corporate level, there must have been. Whether or not this 12 million number is even reasonable is the reasonable question to ask here - seems like something that can be appealed but damn, Nintendo wanting all that money; I guess .


----------



## El_Vallo (Nov 13, 2018)

This just shows the future of sites which share nintendo roms.

Torrents are the future. The future is now.


----------



## |<roni&g (Nov 13, 2018)

As many have said, Fuck Nintendo.

-porting old ass games to the switch like they’re new
-charging for online play on their inferior system with a small library of multiplayer games (many only care for mario kart) 
-now this, fuck Nintendo, I hope they go out of business and mario games can be released on Xbox, mario is about the only thing we’d lose with Nintendo going bust


----------



## wiewiec (Nov 13, 2018)

Now the fuck everyone for sure buy online for playing their NES shit....


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Similar arguments are made about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_(album) & movies like Star Wars.



It's a good argument, although personally I believe there's a big difference

Some were not only rereleases but remasters
The rereleases (i.e. same content on same medium) did add stuff that's interesting to collectors like artwork or bonus content (unreleased songs or commentary)
There's something to be said for the technical aspects of rereleasing on a different medium (VHS, Laserdisc, DVD)
Virtual Console games are literally copy and paste except for the emulator which you port / develope once for an entire catalog AND are distributed digitally.


----------



## Phenj (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Pick any crime which generally goes unreported. They all make your argument look weird.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol get mad, piracy =\= homicide


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> If they write their own emulator then it's unlikely they'll be able to make one that works with all games for that price, free emulators are heavily subsidised by peoples day jobs.



This is what they did with NES and SNES classic mini...



smf said:


> If they write their own emulator then it's unlikely they'll be able to make one that works with all games for that price, free emulators are heavily subsidised by peoples day jobs.
> 
> Similar arguments are made about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_(album) & movies like Star Wars.
> 
> From your point of view you may have an old VHS copy of Star Wars so it'll be fine to download the 4k version of it. From Disneys point of view, it's not fine. The law has to tread a fine line between the two points of view. What tends to happen is if you download it, then you are generally ok. If you sell it then you're not.



A 4K movie is an improvement from the VHS, SMB3 on the 3DS, NES mini or Switch is not.


----------



## Illuminaticy (Nov 13, 2018)

Now they'll get the guy who dumped Lets Go this morning. Was so easy to find the guys Facebook and Twitter, hes gonna die lol


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Maz7006 said:


> Whether or not this 12 million number is even reasonable is the reasonable question to ask here - seems like something that can be appealed but damn, Nintendo wanting all that money; I guess .



I'm not sure what grounds there are for appeal. He appears to have willingly made the offer of $12 million, down from the $100 million that Nintendo wanted.



supersonicwaffle said:


> Virtual Console games are literally copy and paste except for the emulator which you port / develope once for an entire catalog



You've obviously never developed an emulator. Making one that works with every game is quite hard.

Even the PS2 isn't backward compatible with all PS1 games.



Phenj said:


> lol get mad, piracy =\= homicide



The analogy was about proof in law, not about the seriousness of the crime.



CrashMidnick said:


> A 4K movie is an improvement from the VHS, SMB3 on the 3DS, NES mini or Switch is not.



That is subjective. If running it on a switch is not an improvement, then why bother? Just make do with the NES version you already own.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

wiewiec said:


> Now the fuck everyone for sure buy online for playing their NES shit....



Lol NES games, we haven't played those before. That's cute, Nintendo, give us old school games that are actually fun.


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> You've obviously never developed an emulator. Making one that works with every game is quite hard.
> 
> Even the PS2 isn't backward compatible with all PS1 games.



That's a fair point, although not all the work goes to waste between console generations as work that's already been done can be ported. Also Virtual Console has a controlled amount of ROMs so there's that.

I'd be very interested in hearing about things in PS2 backward compatibility that had to be emulated. To my knowledge there was legacy hardware built into the PS2 for backward compatability. How much would you say has this lessened the amount of work that was put into emulation?

You also mentioned that Nintendo couldn't sell an emulator for $70 because it wouldn't be enough for emulator development. I'm surprised to hear that. Even if it sells "only" 1 million copies it'd generate a revenue of 70 million dollars. I wouldn't have thought that any emulator had that much money put into it. I also believe that a potential revenue of 70 million dollars is a VERY conservative assumption.

Edit: To put things into perspective. The NES Classic has sold 2.3 million units by April 2017


----------



## wiewiec (Nov 13, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> That's a fair point, although not all the work goes to waste between console generations as work that's already been done can be ported. Also Virtual Console has a controlled amount of ROMs so there's that.
> 
> I'd be very interested in hearing about things in PS2 backward compatibility that had to be emulated. To my knowledge there was legacy hardware built into the PS2 for backward compatability. How much would you say has this lessened the amount of work that was put into emulation?
> 
> ...



Sony in PS3 60GB model installed PS2 chip to handle games... but only in this model


----------



## CrashMidnick (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> That is subjective. If running it on a switch is not an improvement, then why bother? Just make do with the NES version you already own.



No clue, really ?? Maybe because I have not enough room in my house to connect all my retro consoles at the same time... and to be honest a bit lazy to reconnect it to my LCD TV...


----------



## Langley911 (Nov 13, 2018)

aha *searching Google for good games available on Switch cause im gonna buy one next year* fuck i only see bull shit remakes and first party games from them which are not even fun (ok may be Zelda BOTF is somewhat good) and lmao even RE7 is not running on its own hardware,and almost the other third party games i have already played them on my PC so yeah,3ds will be the last thing i buy from them,i dont need a "handheld" that has so fucking short battery life and needs a power bank for longer playtime outdoor with the games that i can play on my PC


----------



## DuoForce (Nov 13, 2018)

Thanks Nintendo for ruining a Man's life. Seriously fuck Nintendo for doing this


----------



## MrMcTiller (Nov 13, 2018)

So I guess good ol' Nintendy is cracking down. Or maybe they tried taking out a $12 million loan, but got declined for not making good games.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

MrMcTiller said:


> So I guess good ol' Nintendy is cracking down. Or maybe they tried taking out a $12 million loan, but got declined for not making good games.


Troll game is weak...


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo are the victims in this story.

Evil man distributing their creation for free and for profit. Justice prevailed to punish these crooks.

I like stories where the hero wins.


----------



## MrMcTiller (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Nintendo are the victims in this story.
> 
> Evil man distributing their creation for free and for profit. Justice prevailed to punish these crooks.
> 
> I like stories where the hero wins.


The ROMs were like 25 years old. Why would Nintendo care about people playing their old games? It's not like Nintendo would have gained a profit anyway. They don't make these games anymore, therefore they aren't selling them... which means they get no profit.


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Nov 13, 2018)

lordelan said:


> You don't seem to know how much money a well visited website earns you.


I bet you the money the guy made out of it doesn't even come close to 10k per year.


Condemned87 said:


> Because of Nintendos Mini Classic Series?


Really?
Suing for 12 million just because of 40 or so games that they have re-released with both NES/SNES classics combined?
What about 90+% of the library to which they don't own the full rights to? They can't claim rights about those, not even close. if at all less than 5% of the library is done specifically by them alone.
And what about N64, GB/C/A, DS titles which they haven't rereleased at all in current gen?
The same applies for them not owning the copyrights to 90% of the library of said consoles.

It's complete bullshit.
They can protect their property but at least give the fanbase and clients a way to purchase them legally in a digital format.
The ONLY way to get the so called "retro" games from Nintendo is by a *rental* service today.
You don't even own shit anymore because it's all a rental service, how fucked up is that?

Yet people continue to blindingly pay their bullshit services (which offer nothing new at all compared to what emulators have been doing for decades now), and even more bullshit is the fact that people stupidly keep paying for the same fucking games over and over again with each generation of consoles.

And then Nintendo goes and sues ROM sites left and right?
If they weren't such draconian and greedy assholes, and offered the people what they want for once and a way to get their games/ROMs legit, this wouldn't happen.

Good luck trying to get a copy of EarthBound for less than 150 bucks, because that's the only way you'll get the game now since you don't own a thing with this new rental service of shit.


----------



## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

What do people who support the removal of these sites say about games that have not been released again? Castlevania Bloodlines is just about the only classic Castlevania game that has never had a rerelease. Not even on the Wii VC was it released, when we saw a large number of older games ported.

Yeah, sure, I can go on Amazon and buy the cart for like 20 bucks but that doesn't put any money in Konami's or Sega's pockets.



Langley911 said:


> aha *searching Google for good games available on Switch cause im gonna buy one next year* fuck i only see bull shit remakes and first party games from them which are not even fun (ok may be Zelda BOTF is somewhat good) and lmao even RE7 is not running on its own hardware,and almost the other third party games i have already played them on my PC so yeah,3ds will be the last thing i buy from them,i dont need a "handheld" that has so fucking short battery life and needs a power bank for longer playtime outdoor with the games that i can play on my PC



Yeah, as it stands right now, the Switch is mostly a port machine.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

MrMcTiller said:


> The ROMs were like 25 years old. Why would Nintendo care about people playing their old games? It's not like Nintendo would have gained a profit anyway. They don't make these games anymore, therefore they aren't selling them... which means they get no profit.


Seems like too much legal trouble, time and money to do so. No one goes through that trouble if there is loses and no gain.

Justice never sleeps and always prevails.


----------



## phreaksho (Nov 13, 2018)

Wow.. Just wow.


----------



## PlushBun (Nov 13, 2018)

Yeah they can do that, and i understand that they want to protect their property... but come on nintendo its fhacking NES or SNES roms usually.      ooooohhhh wait then people will find out that you can play these games with out getting a NS online or buying it under the virtual console...


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

For the people that say there is no benefit on old games, why then does Nintendo go through all this legal trouble fighting it?

Why waste time to create Nes and SNES classic if there is no profit, that’ll be wasted production money to not have them sell. Which is what businesses would avoid.

Does anyone actually know how much profit old games bring? How much overall profit Nintendo makes. How much expenses cost. How much development costs are. And all the other  financial earnings and costs.

Or are people just assuming old games are not profitable without any evidence to support what they say. No facts or statistics, just assume. Assume like they assume everything about a business, and complain about something they don’t know about.


----------



## Langley911 (Nov 13, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> I bet you the money the guy made out of it doesn't even come close to 10k per year.
> 
> Really?
> Suing for 12 million just because of 40 or so games that they have re-released with both NES/SNES classics combined?
> ...


wise words have been spoken


----------



## lordelan (Nov 13, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> I bet you the money the guy made out of it doesn't even come close to 10k per year.


You might be true, who knows ...
The site was poisoned with ads over and over. It even installed extensions to your browser if you were not smart enough.


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Nov 13, 2018)

lordelan said:


> You might be true, who knows ...
> The site was poisoned with ads over and over. It even installed extensions to your browser if you were not smart enough.


Oh yeah I remember that haha.
He did went a little overboard with ads at one point, but I get it.
Fortunately, I use Linux, so I run no risks of getting viruses at all


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> And then Nintendo goes and sues ROM sites left and right?
> If they weren't such draconian and greedy assholes, and offered the people what they want for once and a way to get their games/ROMs legit, this wouldn't happen.



It's capitalism for you. If you want communism then there are countries you can go to which offers you that.


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> It's capitalism for you. If you want communism then there are countries you can go to which offers you that.


Time to host romsites in China and Russia then :^}
Let's see how Nintendo tries to take action on those lol


----------



## leon315 (Nov 13, 2018)

godreborn said:


> I've always been a Nintendo fan, but not so much after a recent phone conversation.  I called to complain that three games wouldn't let me redeem coins (giving different errors), this is seventy cents of coins minds you, but it was the principle of the thing that was important.  anyway, Nintendo seemed reluctant to give me those coins as if I was lying for a measly seventy cents.  their fuck up, and I'm the one to pay for it.  Nintendo has become, or perhaps always was, a greedy, very greedy company.


DUDE, MAYBE u bought those preowned switch games and coins are already claimed.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Time to host romsites in China and Russia then :^}



What do you mean time to? Only an idiot would host a romsite in america, running payment processing and advertising through america as well (or any european country as well).

The crap he installed on your pc was another nail in his coffin for me.

China may not be a good target though, they have introduced IP laws to maintain trade deals with the west.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 13, 2018)

DarkIrata said:


> Ok, let me get this straight. Around 90% of the people which posted to this thread are butthurt over a sued by nintendo rom page, which most of them doesn't even knew before? From where i get the information? Read the thread that was made when the lawsuit started.
> What makes it even better how all of you prise rom downloads and hating on Nintendo for DOING THERE JOB SO THEY DOEN'T GET SUED FOR TRIPPEL THE AMOUNT. How the fk people forget that gbatemp also once hosted roms and stoped it to become a place to talk / share about stuff like homebrews, news and so on.
> 
> Now let me explain how basic copyright in most use cases work.
> ...



Nah fuck nintendo


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> What do you mean time to? Only an idiot would host a romsite in america, running payment processing and advertising through america as well (or any european country as well).
> 
> The crap he installed on your pc was another nail in his coffin for me.
> 
> China may not be a good target though, they have introduced IP laws to maintain trade deals with the west.


Yeah with that I agree.
He was pretty naive to host everything in the US, he should have hosted it somewhere else in Asia and behind proper security for the web.


----------



## MarkPrime24 (Nov 13, 2018)

What will happen if he didn't able to pay the amount??


----------



## MrMcTiller (Nov 13, 2018)

MarkPrime24 said:


> What will happen if he didn't able to pay the amount??


Possible jail time?


----------



## MarkPrime24 (Nov 13, 2018)

MrMcTiller said:


> Possible jail time?


Nintendo Owns many grossing franchises like Pokemon,Zelda or Mario..and has a net worth of near 65 billion.They shouldn't do that to him


----------



## Fates-Blade-900 (Nov 13, 2018)

So... time to watch walkthroughs instead of playing the games? (Stupid).


----------



## SonicRings (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo, if you aren't gonna let people pirate your games, at least let us fucking buy them from the Virtual Console! Why is this still not a thing?
I guess they just don't want us playing their games ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Fates-Blade-900 (Nov 13, 2018)

Well many games is impractical to play now, like FE6 (since it's japan only) if you don't already have the rom.


----------



## dmace81 (Nov 13, 2018)

Jesus christ!  I can just see it now they will start paying Internet providers to  search out people who download roms and fine them!


----------



## Fates-Blade-900 (Nov 13, 2018)

dmace81 said:


> Jesus christ!  I can just see it now they will start paying Internet providers to  search out people who download roms and fine them!


I think some internet providers are already doing that, like AT&T, but then again I'm not sure.


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> For the people that say there is no benefit on old games, why then does Nintendo go through all this legal trouble fighting it?



There's a problem where if Nintendo were to tolerate the redistribution of its games while it can be assumed they know about it, that they may lose an argument in court because a certain amount of trust has been establish that Nintendo tolerates these practices.

They basically have to at least symbolically show that they're fighting against it.


----------



## AdenTheThird (Nov 13, 2018)

Good grief. So shutting the site down wasn't enough?


----------



## invaderyoyo (Nov 13, 2018)

Just goes to show that just because it's the law, it doesn't mean it's necessarily right or fair.

Nintendo was absolutely within their legal right to do this. $12 million is ridiculous, though.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> It's capitalism for you. If you want communism then there are countries you can go to which offers you that.


Everyone will get a rom equally.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Everyone will get a rom equally.


We must seize the means of ROM production!


----------



## Fates-Blade-900 (Nov 13, 2018)

Xzi said:


> We must seize the means of ROM production!


I suppose we'd have to acquire, and dump almost all GBA carts, then.


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 13, 2018)

I find it hard to believe that the $12 million covers only Nintendo-published games or games that they acquired the rights to. Just because the roms may have been on their platforms at one point 20-30 years ago does not mean that they own distirbution rights on those roms. I'd venture that many of those old ones are in licensing hell, meaning it's either difficult or impossible to track down who actually owns the copyright on them, due to things like closures and buyouts and name changes and shit. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the NES and SNES library is third-party, is it not? No way they are making $12 million on just first party games. Something is wrong with the math here. How are the values being calculated anyway? Second-hand collector's market? Because those prices are artificially inflated and really shouldn't be used in any court.


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## wiewiec (Nov 13, 2018)

Maybe nintenda wanna collect roms for their crappy online service


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Xzi said:


> We must seize the means of ROM production!


We’ll use government to do it. Tryin stop us now Nintendo, ha ha ha ha.


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## Augsss (Nov 13, 2018)

bad move by nintendo :/


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## Fates-Blade-900 (Nov 13, 2018)

HEY! I forgot to mention I found a site long ago (like 6-7 years ago?). That will allow you to stream games tons of retro games, and has a friendly environment.


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## loveShmups (Nov 13, 2018)

well... this action is cruel ... but it's the law on copyrights, I'm afraid !
I'm guessing that the "wild time" of internet is over.... well maybe not in Russia, China, or any Asian country for the moment. 
But in a next future, it will the end of the "free to grab" era. 
I can understand Nintendo, because I work in a service provision company. 
We all pay for drinking water, electricity, telephone.... And i suppose cheating and stealing those resources would be very difficult. 
And we all need to get paid in order to put some food on the table, no ? 
I guess it's the same idea for Nintendo. 
This guy is really unlucky... 
i guess he can start a crowdfunding page, in order to pay these 12 millions dollars. 
good luck !


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## k3rizz3k (Nov 13, 2018)

While I personally think the amount is excessive, nintenduh has a right to protect their properties.  It's bad business not to.  Just because a game isn't available through official channels does not mean that you are entitled to it.  As crappy as that sounds, it's true.  This amount is strictly a deterrent for others, to make them think twice.


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## MrMcTiller (Nov 13, 2018)

HEY! LET'S START A FUNDRAISER TO HELP PAY THE $12 MILLIONS TO BITCHTENDO! Oh wait.... 12,000,000.... that's a lot of zeros.


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## Glyptofane (Nov 13, 2018)

Geez, what the hell?


----------



## MarkPrime24 (Nov 13, 2018)

AdenTheThird said:


> Good grief. So shutting the site down wasn't enough?


It was a chance for them to suck some money


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## Xzi (Nov 13, 2018)

A lot of the younger folks here probably don't realize that massive lawsuits like this one were common back in the 90s for hosting/distributing MP3s.  It's not like copyright suits have ever stopped, but cases this big had become a lot less common.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Nov 13, 2018)

12 mil? As if a rom website owner has that amount. Better to give him a different punishment, like cleaning the streets of what have you for 12 months.


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## MarkPrime24 (Nov 13, 2018)

loveShmups said:


> well... this action is cruel ... but it's the law on copyrights, I'm afraid !
> I'm guessing that the "wild time" of internet is over.... well maybe not in Russia, China, or any Asian country for the moment.
> But in a next future, it will the end of the "free to grab" era.
> I can understand Nintendo, because I work in a service provision company.
> ...


Piracy will never end or it is more like it can't be ended because it creates a balance


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## PiracyForTheMasses (Nov 13, 2018)

wiewiec said:


> Maybe nintenda wanna collect roms for their crappy online service


I suspect that its not a matter of collecting roms, its a matter of making it to where you cant get these games unless you buy them from nintendo on current gen.


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## Xzi (Nov 13, 2018)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> 12 mil? As if a rom website owner has that amount. Better to give him a different punishment, like cleaning the streets of what have you for 12 months.


They know they're not gonna get all of it, he'll have to declare bankruptcy sooner rather than later.  Again, the point was only to send a message.


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## AdenTheThird (Nov 13, 2018)

MarkPrime24 said:


> It was a chance for them to suck some money


They sure are good at that lol


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## Fates-Blade-900 (Nov 13, 2018)

For anyone interested I used this site to game, and it's good, supposedly the founder "Rents" games to people on the site, so he should be legal https://www.vizzed.com/
also the reason for the attack on LoveROMS may be because the NES and SNES classic edition is making sales, who knows, GBA may be next and they didn't want any site hosting the games. (If helpful please like ).


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## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

I doubt it affected it much but how popular would Smash Bros. Still be without Project M?


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## depaul (Nov 13, 2018)

I hate that law pattern when "one has to pay for all others' sin"...
12 M$ is more than what a doctor/engineer/pilot would make during his entire life.
That's clearly unfair, I always wondered how those big companies calculate that "damage" amount... and how would a judge approve that


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## SonicRings (Nov 13, 2018)

depaul said:


> I hate that law pattern when "one has to pay for all others' sin"...
> 12 M$ is more than what a doctor/engineer/pilot would make during his entire life.
> That's clearly unfair, I always wondered how those big companies calculate that "damage" amount...


Dude, like, do you even know how many Soccer on NES sales they lost because people could download that for free?! $12 is, like, nowhere close, man. /s


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## Vinceherman (Nov 13, 2018)

I wonder if any of that $12 million will go to the people who actually made the games?  Or if Nintendo will just keep it all for themselves?


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## Shadowfied (Nov 13, 2018)

Fucking ridiculousness. How about you take some of your lawyer money and put it towards maning your games and systems the best it could be instead. I can't even begin to fathom how any calculation can be presented seriously and imply that a ROM download is a lost sale. Especially when the vast majority are games you can't even pay for. These witch hunts for normal people need to stop.


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## Mizat (Nov 13, 2018)

OK, these owners of the site's were not very smart. I never went to the site that lost, however if they would have put disclaimers and warning and such all over the place and on every page with a rom in big bold letters, or even an agreement the user has to make to use the site, he wouldn't be F****'ed the rest of his life financially. ROMs technically are not illegal in themselves, court cases have proved this. The owner of the site should have worded thongs better and let people know on everypage with a download that, they are not legally able to download a rom to play, and what not all symats really. Unless he site was in a format that was kind of mega uploadish and was obviously for free stuff, Emuparidise took stuff down I feel bad in a way for them, however If i'm thinking of the correct site, and they had a lawyer that wasn't somecouple $100 hack job, they would be fine, As I think they warned and had disclaimers ect. However better safe thanm sorry, even if you don't get sued going to court would be a hassel. His site would get publicity if he won though, ya know?


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Shadowfied said:


> Fucking ridiculousness. How about you take some of your lawyer money and put it towards maning your games and systems the best it could be instead. I can't even begin to fathom how any calculation can be presented seriously and imply that a ROM download is a lost sale. Especially when the vast majority are games you can't even pay for. These witch hunts for normal people need to stop.


I’ve seen some sites that has NES, SNES downloads but no roms that are Nintendo made. I guess that gives them protection from Nintendo since they ae the biggest threat for this anti piracy thing. And Nintendo can’t sue them for games made by other companies I guess. I don’t know.

Nintendo might have sued them just for their games. Then they guy decided to take down the whole site, because after 12 million and Bankruptcy I would guess he said no more of this. This is all just speculation though. I didn’t bother to read the legalities.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

Something to consider, didn't loveroms offer a subscription service? Hmmm.... Yes, I would know as that's the site I used to "acquire" certain files. If some of you honestly think they aren't in a financial position to pay this sum, you're in no position to argue here.


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## Mizat (Nov 13, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> Most people wouldn't mind it, if ninty still sold the games so that you can actually get them.


Yea, if they sold these things, or had download for everything people would buy them. I'm not gonna use an emulater on a New 2ds when I can get old pokemon in the eshop for a good fair price. I think 5 maybe 10 depending. I'll pay 5 for any Pokemon related game. However they don't sell all games or even close, or offer them free or 50 cents. IDK why they don't take part of that 12 million, and use it to make every game possible downloadable for free, cheap as hell, and fair for the big titles. If someone has bought a GBA game in 3ds should be avaible on their wii, Wii U ect. Maybe not the Wii it;s little old. Seriously only times I ever played a Rom was when I couldn't get it anywhere else. Like Shantae before the eshop (the first one that was impossible to find in the first place and if was released at a better time would have been a much larger success).

Edit-I know licensing issues is a huge problem with many games being re-released, however it wont take much to get into contact with asid company have two lawyers go over and create a contract saying it can be in the shop and they can make X amount off of every download. Or the game can be free but you Studio or developers will have their brand advertised largley when booting the free game, even ninendo could offer them 1 payment, of not much money at all. The games arn't doing anything, nothing to loose, just hand the rights over to Nintendo for 10 Grand shit (mostly washed old companies who need it). Nintendo could offer help and resourses for developing a game they maybe working on. Offer free marketng to a current franchise if they can have them in the eshop, say free themes with a game they are making, and they can have the NOT the right to the game, but ab agreement for it to be in the eshop for free or for whatever price is fair and decided, then Nintendo needs money for hosting that game on their servers ect, it will cost them money to offer them to us, thats when you charge a small fee for game make some 50 cents fuck. It'll add up, in some cases developers should love have even a small portion of the money made, and they still own the game ad can do anything they want, it;s just in the eshop. Maybe they could all sell a modified ROM (lol) to nintendo of the game to post, and they can make it however they want, make it full of ads somehow for new games go ahead, people will just not want to play it who are not hard core fans, but they could be altered in a waqy that makes the version not even close to as valuable to consumers as original, have to a creative way, but this would be a way for developers to get past current contracts with other compasies like Microsoft and Sony or partner type companies, also nintendo would have some alterned not exact original, ig they wanted to do that, incase they planned a relaunch soon of the original on some other platform or new game including t or a redesign/graphics.


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## BORTZ (Nov 13, 2018)

Man, I used to use LoveROMs lol 
Oh well, rom sites are like Hydras, luckily.


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## Deleted User (Nov 13, 2018)

omegasoul6 said:


> Why is Nintendo protecting their properties?!?1?!
> Unforgivable!!! /s
> 
> Seriously though, this guy chose to make money with his site by uploading ROMs, so I really can't be bothered to feel sorry for him. He should've known Nintendo would come for him.


I do agree with you, but certain games are extremely tough to play without getting them on an emulator. Nintendo isn't making it easy for newcomers and fans to play retro games on the Switch (I mean, it's pretty tough to play Gamecube games without playing a remake, getting the original console, or playing them on a Wii or emulator). Either way, I'm pretty neutral on the situation.


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## Shadowfied (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> I’ve seen some sites that has NES, SNES downloads but no roms that are Nintendo made. I guess that gives them protection from Nintendo since they ae the biggest threat for this anti piracy thing. And Nintendo can’t sue them for games made by other companies I guess. I don’t know.
> 
> Nintendo might have sued them just for their games. Then they guy decided to take down the whole site, because after 12 million and Bankruptcy I would guess he said no more of this. This is all just speculation though. I didn’t bother to read the legalities.


I feel like if I was actually in a 12 million dollar debt, I would just dedicate my life to provide ROMs for everyone. I'd already be as fucked as I could be.


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## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Just because the roms may have been on their platforms at one point 20-30 years ago does not mean that they own distirbution rights on those roms.



They can prove they own the copyright to the ones listed in exhibit a

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.1112177/gov.uscourts.azd.1112177.1.1_1.pdf

And the trademarks in exhibit b

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.1112177/gov.uscourts.azd.1112177.1.2.pdf



Shadowfied said:


> I feel like if I was actually in a 12 million dollar debt, I would just dedicate my life to provide ROMs for everyone. I'd already be as fucked as I could be.



You really wouldn't. You'd end up in jail until you stopped being in contempt of court. You're just swinging your dick, which might help you in jail.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

I am sick and tired of people saying that licensing issues are what prevents them from releasing their games. Does this include their own first party games? No, because why the hell would Nintendo's own IP have licensing issues when they are the ones that made them? There is literally no excuse for first party games not being available on Switch.

But you know what? I don't even feel a minutia of regret or remorse for downloading countless old ROMs. Why? Because many of them are not available on digital storefronts, so I either have to pay some lowlife scalper on eBay, or not buy them at all. Yeah, screw that.


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> They can prove they own the copyright to the ones listed in exhibit a
> 
> https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.1112177/gov.uscourts.azd.1112177.1.1_1.pdf
> 
> ...


Is there a document detailing how they determined the value of out of print games?


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Is there a document detailing how they determined the value of out of print games?


10*games sold in total (pretty much).


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Yeah like they really lost money from most of those games.


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## godreborn (Nov 13, 2018)

leon315 said:


> DUDE, MAYBE u bought those preowned switch games and coins are already claimed.



no, these were bought new from best buy.  the exact error was: "it is too early to claim coins for this software."  I had been getting the same message for months.  if the coins had been claimed, it would've said as such.


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## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Is there a document detailing how they determined the value of out of print games?



Why should they? That isn't how the law works (and has to work).

They don't need to prove the number of times it was downloaded either, that would put too much of a burden on the plaintiff.

It's enough to know that significant numbers of visitors accessed the site where copyright infringing files were available.

There is a cap on damages, so it can work both ways.


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Shadowfied said:


> I feel like if I was actually in a 12 million dollar debt, I would just dedicate my life to provide ROMs for everyone. I'd already be as fucked as I could be.


Different people react differently I guess.


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 13, 2018)

smf said:


> Why should they? That isn't how the law works (and has to work).
> 
> They don't need to prove the number of times it was downloaded either, that would put too much of a burden on the plaintiff.
> 
> ...


Wow, so the plaintiff doesn't even have the burden of proof in civil cases. No wonder there are so many frivolous lawsuits these days. In my opinion, you should only be able to sue for provable monetary damages. The legal team should have to do some actual work. They shouldn't be able to just say "Look, they put this shit up here, and their website seems to be relatively popular, so we are entitled to maximum restitution." To me, that's bullshit. I imagine  the courts also require more proof from the plaintiff when the defendant is a corporate entity, so it's a double standard.


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Wow, so the plaintiff doesn't even have the burden of proof in civil cases. No wonder there are so many frivolous lawsuits these days. In my opinion, you should only be able to sue for provable monetary damages. The legal team should have to do some actual work. They shouldn't be able to just say "Look, they put this shit up here, and their website seems to be relatively popular, so we are entitled to maximum restitution." To me, that's bullshit. I imagine  the courts also require more proof from the plaintiff when the defendant is a corporate entity, so it's a double standard.


Doesn’t sites have a download counter. The top 10 downloads and it will tell you how many times a game has been downloaded. That’s what i’ve seen on a few rom sites.


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## LingFox (Nov 13, 2018)

Nintendo is worse than Apple.
Hopefully this will bite them back hard, because it's a pretty dangerous example they set up.
and hopefully some donkey servers are still up with their roms dumps.


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## KnifeCat (Nov 13, 2018)

ouhf… 12 million dollars!


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Doesn’t sites have a download counter. The top 10 downloads and it will tell you how many times a game has been downloaded. That’s what i’ve seen on a few rom sites.


Even if not, according to smf, they don't even have to prove that a single person downloaded any of the files, they are allowed to assume it was millions.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Man, look at all those lost sales from those games that were never on the eShop. Poor Nintendo must be hurting bad, huh?


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## godreborn (Nov 13, 2018)

maybe if the switch had vc...  I bought mega man x3 and 7 on the eshop for the wii u, since those games cost like $100 apiece for the snes.  I have the rest of the collection in cartridge form.  if only my pos retron 5 worked correctly...


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Even if not, according to smf, they don't even have to prove that a single person downloaded any of the files, they are allowed to assume it was millions.


I remember seeing a few Nintendo games downloaded up in the millions on a few sites.

So 5 dollars for VC price, times for example 1,000,000 downloads that’s 15 million for one game. Snes were 8 dollars and Super Mario World is a really popular game.

If you include all games then the guy got off easier. It could have been worse then what was settled.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

godreborn said:


> maybe if the switch had vc...  I bought mega man x3 and 7 on the eshop for the wii u, since those games cost like $100 apiece for the snes.  I have the rest of the collection in cartridge form.  if only my pos retron 5 worked correctly...



Should've got a Super NT, those actually last long  That, with a flashcart and you're golden.


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## godreborn (Nov 13, 2018)

I like to keep the experience as genuine as possible aside from the system itself, so I want to buy cartridges if possible.  the most expensive one I have was $25.


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## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Should've got a Super NT, those actually last long  That, with a flashcart and you're golden.



Ideal situation is a SNES with an upscale. Flashcart that has the whole library on it and you have you real collection stored nicely or displayed.


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## codezer0 (Nov 13, 2018)

What a load of hot garbage.
At this point, the only nintendo systems that make sense to buy, are only those that can be modified to run more games and homebrew. A stock Nintendo system is unbelievably limited by comparison.


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## djnate27 (Nov 13, 2018)

Could've saved himself a lot of grief, just by heeding my avatar's caption!


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 13, 2018)

They also offered a premium service as well for direct downloads. I seriously don't understand why you're acting like they're not in the wrong. They're making money off of piracy. This isn't some half assed forum post using 3rd party links to some shitty host. Oi vey. I feel like some of you never actually visited the site and just assume.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Exaltys said:


> Ideal situation is a SNES with an upscale. Flashcart that has the whole library on it and you have you real collection stored nicely or displayed.


Or... The SuperNT.. Which works just as well as a frame meister..


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## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Or... The SuperNT.. Which works just as well as a frame meister..



For convenience and usability, sure. I'm talking in strictly collectors sense. If we aren't talking collecting actual games I'll just stick to higan and be done with it.


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> I remember seeing a few Nintendo games downloaded up in the millions on a few sites.
> 
> So 5 dollars for VC price, times for example 1,000,000 downloads that’s 15 million for one game. Snes were 8 dollars and Super Mario World is a really popular game.
> 
> If you include all games then the guy got off easier. It could have been worse then what was settled.


That's only because apparently there are limits to how much you can legally sue someone for. They basically asked for the maximum and got it.


Memoir said:


> They also offered a premium service as well for direct downloads. I seriously don't understand why you're acting like they're not in the wrong. They're making money off of piracy. This isn't some half assed forum post using 3rd party links to some shitty host. Oi vey. I feel like some of you never actually visited the site and just assume.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Yeah, profiting off of piracy is immoral and stupid, and they do deserve to get sued for that, but did they even break $1 million in subscriptions, let alone 12 million? Was any of it actual profit, or did it just offset hosting costs? There are a lot of unanswered questions about that one. I still disagree with the 12 million judgment, not that it matters.


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## godreborn (Nov 13, 2018)

Memoir said:


> They also offered a premium service as well for direct downloads. I seriously don't understand why you're acting like they're not in the wrong. They're making money off of piracy. This isn't some half assed forum post using 3rd party links to some shitty host. Oi vey. I feel like some of you never actually visited the site and just assume.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



the price of the framemeister is just insane.  I guess that's due to it being discontinued.  I'd use an snes if the price of that thing wasn't so high.  I don't want to use a flash cart either.  if I did that, I might as well just use an emulator and one of those usb game pads in the shape of the original controller.


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## wiewiec (Nov 13, 2018)

I have little hope that this 12 million $ is for online servers, because Nintendo is very sad about dislikes under their videos


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## Exaltys (Nov 13, 2018)

godreborn said:


> the price of the framemeister is just insane.  I guess that's due to it being discontinued.  I'd use an snes if the price of that thing wasn't so high.  I don't want to use a flash cart either.  if I did that, I might as well just use an emulator and one of those usb game pads in the shape of the original controller.



For new platformers that are similar to older SNES era games I use a USB adaptor on one of my old SNES controllers connected to my PC.


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## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Wow, so the plaintiff doesn't even have the burden of proof in civil cases.



civil cases don't have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. This isn't a frivolous case.



Subtle Demise said:


> Even if not, according to smf, they don't even have to prove that a single person downloaded any of the files, they are allowed to assume it was millions.



It was his intent to provide the copyright violating files to his 17 million visitors a month. It's not up to Nintendo to prove how many actually downloaded it.

If he kept logs that the court would accept then he could offer that as mitigation.

Each page has a view counter, so they can determine how many times the box copyright & trademark were violated. For SMB3 it was over 1.8 million views.

You could probably argue fair use for the box and trademark, if he wasn't also providing the roms.



Subtle Demise said:


> That's only because apparently there are limits to how much you can legally sue someone for. They basically asked for the maximum and got it.



They didn't get the maximum. I believe the maximum was $100 million.



Subtle Demise said:


> I still disagree with the 12 million judgment, not that it matters.



The $12 million was a settlement agreed between Jacob and Nintendo, the court just formalised it so that if he breaks any of the conditions then he is in contempt of court rather than Nintendo having to start suing him again.


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## wiewiec (Nov 13, 2018)

I think Nintendo is very angry that switch was hacked so quickly they ban vave, fight rom sites (why now? not before?), flags yt videos (showing sx cfw, game hacks, tutorials etc).


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Exaltys said:


> Ideal situation is a SNES with an upscale. Flashcart that has the whole library on it and you have you real collection stored nicely or displayed.



Which is what the Super NT does...it scales pixels perfectly to 720 or 1080, the former looking the best. FPGA emulation for the win.


----------



## smf (Nov 13, 2018)

wiewiec said:


> (why now? not before?)



They have done it before.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...own_against_Kickstarter_for_NES_photobook.php
https://torrentfreak.com/nintendo-shuts-down-donkey-kong-remake-for-roku-170630/
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/09/nintendos-dmca-backed-quest-against-online-fangames/
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news...n-games-hit-with-dmca-takedown-notice-1455068

Years ago they went after arcade rom sites, some sites decided not to carry anything by nintendo.


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## Deleted User (Nov 13, 2018)

The thing here is, Nintendo is probably claiming damages considering all the games, and while you can buy a lot of games on their digital stores at the moment, how the hell am I supposed to get legit copies of games they don't provide?


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Sharinflan said:


> The thing here is, Nintendo is probably claiming damages considering all the games, and while you can buy a lot of games on their digital stores at the moment, how the hell am I supposed to get legit copies of games they don't provide?



Inb4 "buy them from some dumbass scalper on eBay"

Hate to break to Nintendo, but uh, too bad for them I have the entire Snes ROM set, so...they can suck it.


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## Silent_Gunner (Nov 13, 2018)

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/ne...-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

'Nuff said.


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## Deleted User (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Inb4 "buy them from some dumbass scalper on eBay"
> 
> Hate to break to Nintendo, but uh, too bad for them I have the entire Snes ROM set, so...they can suck it.


Thing is, that doesn't give money to Nintendo, does it?


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## Silent_Gunner (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Which is what the Super NT does...it scales pixels perfectly to 720 or 1080, the former looking the best. FPGA emulation for the win.



It also emulates electrons running through reality!/s


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Silent_Gunner said:


> It also emulates electrons running through reality!/s



Excuse me? Did I stutter? It's hardware emulation, I don't see what the issue is, no need to be cute. At the end of the day, FPGA, for as good as it is, is still hardware emulation.
People claim "it's not emulation", which isn't true.



Sharinflan said:


> Thing is, that doesn't give money to Nintendo, does it?



Nope, just to those eBay rabble. idiots claim that used games are worse than piracy, not sure how, but let the babies have their way I guess.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> It's hardware emulation, I don't see what the issue is, no need to be cute.





What I'm referring to.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

Silent_Gunner said:


> What I'm referring to.




And? Ask Byuu, he himself talked about the Super NT, it's  hardware emulation, I don't see what the problem with me saying it.

https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic/

TLDR - it's not more accurate than Higan


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

Some people blame Nintendo for not releasing roms quick enough but the majority of games are not Nintendo made. It’s not up to them to release the games. It’s up to the original publishers.

And the majority of popular Nintendo made games have been released on multiply consoles. It’s an unfair criticism to say that Nintendo is the reason some of the games aren’t available.



Subtle Demise said:


> That's only because apparently there are limits to how much you can legally sue someone for. They basically asked for the maximum and got it.
> 
> Yeah, profiting off of piracy is immoral and stupid, and they do deserve to get sued for that, but did they even break $1 million in subscriptions, let alone 12 million? Was any of it actual profit, or did it just offset hosting costs? There are a lot of unanswered questions about that one. I still disagree with the 12 million judgment, not that it matters.


Not only subscription fees, revenue made through ads.

Nintendo seeked to get $150,000 for each copyright infringed work. And $2,000,000 for each infringed Trademark.

The agreed 12 million is a small fraction of what they could get. And probably a deterrent that scared off many rom sites with an even lower amount agreed behind closed doors.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Some people blame Nintendo for not releasing roms quick enough but the majority of games are not Nintendo made. It’s not up to them to release the games. It’s up to the original publishers.
> 
> And the majority of popular Nintendo made games have been released on multiply consoles. It’s an unfair criticism to say that Nintendo is the reason some of the games aren’t available.
> 
> ...



How is it up to the original publisher if Nintendo published their own games? They have 100% control over their own IP, I don't think they need to get a license agreement over their own games. And what right do they have to take down games that aren't even their IP?

Most of their first party library isn't even on VC or eShop. That's hardly a majority. N64 games? Only 21 released on Wii U and the same on Wii, that's hardly a majority of the 300 or so N64 games in its entirety, so it's very much a valid criticism when they have control over their own IPs, they very much have the rights to make their own digitally available.

Why the hell go after ROMs that aren't even Nintendo ROMs?


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> How is it up to the original publisher if Nintendo published their own games? They have 100% control over their own IP, I don't think they need to get a license agreement over their own games. And what right do they have to take down games that aren't even their IP?
> 
> Most of their first party library isn't even on VC or eShop. That's hardly a majority. N64 games? Only 21 released on Wii U and the same on Wii, that's hardly a majority of the 300 or so N64 games in its entirety, so it's very much a valid criticism when they have control over their own IPs, they very much have the rights to make their own digitally available.


I’m talking about games not made by Nintendo. Majority of games released on NES, SNES and N64 are not Nintendo made. It’s up to them to want to release these games not Nintendo.

How many of those 300 N64 games are Nintendo made?


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## SG854 (Nov 13, 2018)

I counted 28 N64 games published  by Nintendo. 2 you can take off the list since Banjo Kazooie are not controlled by Nintendo anymore. So 26.

The N64 Wii VC list has majority published by Nintendo except for 2 games. So that’s 19. Which is the Majority of their popular games. Except for Pokémon Stadiums and I think Hal has control of those games.

And about the same amount of N64 on the Wii U VC 21 games total.


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## medoli900 (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> I’m talking about games not made by Nintendo. Majority of games released on NES, SNES and N64 are not Nintendo made. It’s up to them to want to release these games not Nintendo.
> 
> How many of those 300 N64 games are Nintendo made?


Out of the 388 licensed game, 15 were made by Nintendo, and 4 by HAL Laboratory. What I'd like to know is what ROM exactly were they sued for. If a ROM sharing site would only share third party games (so the 369 N64 game left, for example) would Nintendo still have grounds to sue them? Of course, other company still can sue them, but is the publisher of a legacy console still had that kind of legal ground in that case?


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## the_randomizer (Nov 13, 2018)

SG854 said:


> I’m talking about games not made by Nintendo. Majority of games released on NES, SNES and N64 are not Nintendo made. It’s up to them to want to release these games not Nintendo.
> 
> How many of those 300 N64 games are Nintendo made?



And we both know it'll be a cold day in hell before it does. So I say, screw it, and download a crap load of ROMs because companies are too lazy to work out licensing issues and we're forced to be stuck with boring NES games on Switch.


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## medoli900 (Nov 14, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> And we both know it'll be a cold day in hell before it does. So I say, screw it, and download a crap load of ROMs because companies are too lazy to work out licensing issues and we're forced to be stuck with boring NES games on Switch.


Licensing issue is way more complex than you think it is. For example, Rare is now owned by Microsoft. Why would Microsoft let one of their direct competitor release some of their game. Also, some company does not exist anymore, so licensing is literally impossible.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 14, 2018)

medoli900 said:


> Licensing issue is way more complex than you think it is. For example, Rare is now owned by Microsoft. Why would Microsoft let one of their direct competitor release some of their game. Also, some company does not exist anymore, so licensing is literally impossible.



This is why emulation/ROMs is such a nice solution, even if it is illegal. There's no other easier, legal alternative for those licensing issues, and well, I don't see that changing ever. Thanks a lot, stupid licenses.  The way Nintendo is flagging even third party games they don't own, is a dick move. Just flag the first party games and be done with it.

Oh and copyright laws? They're convoluted bullshit too.


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## CORE (Nov 14, 2018)

All these old Games key word OLD GAMES including those abandoned and Expired Licenses had their f***ing day and not all are owned by Nintendo and are somewhat extinct when it comes to buying them Nintendo made their money , instead of suing to Bully and Intimidate Money outta People how about make some F***ing Games they F***ed over the best Nintendo Console ever and instead of improving SPECS and Features they take away Second Screen and port over from previous Gen not just from WiiU and fill their vast majority of Indie Titles most of which are on PC and other Platforms with Superior Gameplay Graphics Online Features not to mention in most cases Cheaper.
An (optional) Tablet Controller like the Wii U and PS4 type Specs would have been nice only thing I like about Switch is it basically a Handheld while Microsoft and Sony Battle Home Console Market it like Android Market and Windows Market Mobile Devices and PCs. WiiU was the last true Console.

People just like myself have spent Hundreds and Thousands into Gaming we are entitled to Protect our F***ing Investment and Play whatever over last couple decades including old ROMs If you dont OWN what you BUY then you should not be Selling now F**k OFF! 

Nintendo The Entertainment Company Moto = Need more money Sue for quick fix.

NOW YOUR PLAYING WITH POWER! CORPORATE LEGAL POWER!!!


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## SG854 (Nov 14, 2018)

medoli900 said:


> Out of the 388 licensed game, 15 were made by Nintendo, and 4 by HAL Laboratory. What I'd like to know is what ROM exactly were they sued for. If a ROM sharing site would only share third party games (so the 369 N64 game left, for example) would Nintendo still have grounds to sue them? Of course, other company still can sue them, but is the publisher of a legacy console still had that kind of legal ground in that case?


I don’t think they would’ve been able to if they didn’t have Nintendo roms. A few sites didn’t have Nintendo roms for protection.

You would also have to count NES, SNES, GBC, GBA, NDS and Arcade games with N64 roms. That’s a lot to get sued on.


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## CORE (Nov 14, 2018)

@SG854 Dont Forget GC and Wii.


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## SG854 (Nov 14, 2018)

CORE said:


> @SG854 Dont Forget GC and Wii.


I don’t know if that site had them.


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## CORE (Nov 14, 2018)

oh it did lol.


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## leyon533 (Nov 14, 2018)

I think people are missing the fact that $12M damage isnt just for Nintendo...
The thing is majority of these games are from 3rd party companies and developers, meaning Nintendo will also be sharing that $12M to the related 3rd parties... the violator isnt only paying Ninty, he's paying every single active party thats related to the library he uploaded


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## Song of storms (Nov 14, 2018)

DAE Nintendo bad. Like this post.


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## Demix (Nov 14, 2018)

That guy can move to cananda or else where, the u.s court not gonna extract or force him to pay then


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## the_randomizer (Nov 14, 2018)

Demix said:


> That guy can move to cananda or else where, the u.s court not gonna extract or force him to pay then



Or Belize, there's no extradition treaty.


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## Kippykip (Nov 14, 2018)

Lucifer666 said:


> It's not like there's a legal way to pay Nintendo to play N64 games besides the limited selection of virtual console stuff. Pretty much all the retros are simply not profitable for them anymore because they don't even sell them (again, besides VC & stuff like that), so it honestly makes no sense for them to be bothered enough to ruin a man's life with debt he will most likely never pay off.
> 
> EDIT: Now I'm real curious, is there truly no way to anonymously register a domain and host a site?


I just did a few months ago, it's called offshore/anonymous hosting and is often paid in cryptocurrency.


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## supersonicwaffle (Nov 14, 2018)

Silent_Gunner said:


> https://www.escapistmagazine.com/ne...-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem
> 
> 'Nuff said.



Thank you for sharing this. Service is exactly what piracy is about. I remember reading studies on piracy that I can't recall 100% but they came to very interesting conclusions.

people have an unconscious limit of money they're willing to spend on entertainment, they're not spending less even when pirating
because people who pirate will spend about the same as they would if they wouldn't pirate they end up investing more into things like hardware, going to movie theaters, going to concerts, etc.
From a content producer's point of view, a better service is exactly the right response to mitigate this as has been demonstrated by Netflix or Spotify. No one ever talks about how Kodi / XBMC + pirated content has been THE definitive solution for a home entertainment a few years ago. Or how iTunes + pirated MP3s was really good.
Asking people to use a worse experience with more effort involved like keeping a library of physical media, having to search through it by hand, inserting the media into a "player device", having to seek through a DVD to pick up where you left off watching on a different device and such for the sole reason of it being the proper and legal way is just unreasonable. I know plenty of people who downloaded pirated copies of content they already had just because they didn't want to go through the hassle of seeking out a DVD and putting it into a drive or even going through transcoding a DVD.

The gaming industry will sooner or later arrive at the same conclusion as there's no way to stop piracy of retro games. If Nintendo isn't willing to do that then that's their loss.


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## crookedcarsalesman (Nov 14, 2018)

I can understand why Nintendo did what they did, but $12m?! Out of one dudes pocket?


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## EridiumMiner (Nov 14, 2018)

I know Nintendo is "just" trying to protect their properties, but this is too much


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## TheDragonscion (Nov 14, 2018)

It's probably a scare tactic to prevent others from doing the same thing. It is an insane amount though.


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## DJPlace (Nov 14, 2018)

first nintendo boycotting rom sites and now sony acting like nintendo... and nintendo acting like sony.... WTF is going one here!?!


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## Slim45 (Nov 14, 2018)

mustafag32g said:


> fuk nintendo! Everybody pirate the hell out of their shitss


I may or may not pirate all of nintendos games from now on


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## TheTurkGamer (Nov 14, 2018)

actually nintendo is probably cashgrabbing out of the lawsuits, also you can hate on nintendo but you cant hate on our god shigeru miyamoto (ok its not our god im just making a joke pls dont start hating)


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## Deleted member 377734 (Nov 14, 2018)

Wow, i've neevr liked LOVEroms ( they gave me a virus when i tried to download Pokemon Silver 8 years ago ) 

But 12 Mil? That's insane. Thats more money than they prolly made with those actual games. Money greedy fugs want to milk them dry. 

They'll be going after Pokecommunity next, or GBAhacks.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Wow, i've never liked LOVEroms ( they gave me a virus when i tried to download Pokemon Silver 8 years ago ) 

But 12 Mil? That's insane. Thats more money than they prolly made with those actual games. Money greedy fugs want to milk them dry. 

They'll be going after Pokecommunity next, or GBAhacks.


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## RPG_FAN128 (Nov 14, 2018)

Moral of the story:  Don't be illegal.  Life is so simple really.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 14, 2018)

Kippykip said:


> View attachment 149338
> 
> I just did a few months ago, it's called offshore/anonymous hosting and is often paid in cryptocurrency.



Who the hell is that in the Twitter pic? And I suppose that's one way to make things harder to trace.



RPG_FAN128 said:


> Moral of the story:  Don't be illegal.  Life is so simple really.



Moral of the story is, don't be a brand loyalty shill, don't act like Nintendo is completely infallible and innocent, they've failed to deliver on adequate digital services.


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## tiamat999 (Nov 14, 2018)

Fates-Blade-900 said:


> For anyone interested I used this site to game, and it's good, supposedly the founder "Rents" games to people on the site, so he should be legal https://www.vizzed.com/
> also the reason for the attack on LoveROMS may be because the NES and SNES classic edition is making sales, who knows, GBA may be next and they didn't want any site hosting the games. (If helpful please like ).




Eeeewwwww streaming singleplayer games get that shit outta here


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## Grand-Master (Nov 14, 2018)

Nintendo is the worst shit! Of damn company that I will ever buy something from them... they fuck every good deed from them... Hail the fallen ones, we will remember you as heroes and not cowards as ninth... fuck them all!, from now own I am going to take everything free and not paid. Fucking damn losers!


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## coppertj (Nov 14, 2018)

Keep as anonymous as possible if your not dumping your friends carts for homebrew. PIA VPN and I'd suggest not evening downloading them on your wifi maybe a library's or schools. They ain't playing around anymore... I'm never downloading a switch rom again will use wain cart dumper for now on. I respect nintendos property not to be distributing it on a open network.


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## Grand-Master (Nov 14, 2018)

Nintendo services are nothing compared to that of Sony and Microsoft, they will never reach them out!


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## CORE (Nov 14, 2018)

Just because Nintendo has decided to try their hand at Emulation everyone that has being doing it for a decades before now has to stop it same as Streaming Services Netflix etc.  Peeps been doing it for decades look at XBOX and Samba Share for one example the amount of money they loose from piracy is nothing compared to what they made same goes for Movies and Music and because people have made them rich they can tell you how to live take a look at Hollywood etc so called celebrities.


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## coppertj (Nov 14, 2018)

CORE said:


> Just because Nintendo has decided to try their hand at Emulation everyone that has being doing it for a decades before now has to stop it same as Streaming Services Netflix etc.  Peeps been doing it for decades look at XBOX and Samba Share for one example the amount of money they loose from piracy is nothing compared to what they made same goes for Movies and Music and because people have made them rich they can tell you how to live take a look at Hollywood etc so called celebrities.


Sony after vampiricly draining bleem ps1 emulator through lawsuits gave the creator a job as head of PlayStation emulation. Don't ever see Nintendo doing that to a developer tbh.


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## SG854 (Nov 14, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Thank you for sharing this. Service is exactly what piracy is about. I remember reading studies on piracy that I can't recall 100% but they came to very interesting conclusions.
> 
> people have an unconscious limit of money they're willing to spend on entertainment, they're not spending less even when pirating
> because people who pirate will spend about the same as they would if they wouldn't pirate they end up investing more into things like hardware, going to movie theaters, going to concerts, etc.
> ...


Streaming pirated videos on Kodi is so low quality. Even ones that claim to be HD has artifiacts in the picture and bluriness to it.

Bluerays and official downloads and legit streams always had higher quality videos. And finding a good quality pirated copy is a hassle. I’ve been getting a worse experience with this, not the definitive solution at all.


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## Silent_Gunner (Nov 14, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Thank you for sharing this. Service is exactly what piracy is about. I remember reading studies on piracy that I can't recall 100% but they came to very interesting conclusions.
> 
> people have an unconscious limit of money they're willing to spend on entertainment, they're not spending less even when pirating
> because people who pirate will spend about the same as they would if they wouldn't pirate they end up investing more into things like hardware, going to movie theaters, going to concerts, etc.
> ...



What's worse is when said player device's disc drive fails and stops reading the disc. *gives the three different silver slim PS2s and my (admittedly) 10+ year old GameCube the evil glare* Or when your parents toss out a fully functional NES when you go to move out because your school district was going to put you into a school notorious for its incidents and gang activity, because we weren't playing it anymore. Which was true to a certain extent, but it wasn't because the item wasn't worth something. (If anything, that's when retro stuff like that had value still, assuming we're not talking about Persona 2 Eternal Punishment on PS1 or something like that!) Shit like this is why people just buy a clone console, rip the games themselves if they want to be legit, or just find a ROM site and voila, the games are on their hard drive, free to be copied, backed up, and shared forever and ever practically. (I know there's decay of digital data, but c'mon)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of having multiple pieces of optical discs as much just because of how easy it is for something to go wrong that requires more work than just ordering a new PC part and emulating the same game on the PC, or just getting the PC port assuming said games' PC port isn't titled GTA4 or Saints Row 2!


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## AntDX316 (Nov 15, 2018)

They had 17 million users monthly..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's like downloading pirated software, if only a dozen people do it they won't crack down.  The problem is they could be phishing for Cryptocurrencies not credit card information.

When it becomes wide spread like Napster companies sue.  The thing is, when the person is alive and they have assets they can garnish wages.  What do they do if the person died?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

We don't even know Jacob Mathias's net worth.  Could have made Millions off BTC.  Could have won the big lotteries.  $12M could be equivalent to a couple thousand in comparison to "average" people.  I mean, when Michael Jordan sued some grocery store for $10M for a steak ad that only sold 2 or 3 coupons it caused the grocery store to shut down costing jobs.  Things like this makes an impact for media coverage but the people who get "wrecked" by it are the same yesterday's news to many as the people who have issues from the Mexico Beach, FL Michael Hurricane and the CA Wildfires who come back to no house and not much other assets.  There are people who are still renting w/ no homes so they would pretty much be on the same level..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I mean.. they probably sued for $12M but partnered with them secretly as NDA to actually make the games and then somehow make a profit through advertising or licensing with iOS, Windows, Google Play Android, etc.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 15, 2018)

Again, I reiterate that piracy is not the same as theft. It's like I rent a book from the library or CD, I copy the contents and return the material like normal. Have I physically stolen it? Nope, as far as the library knows, it's good as new, but at my PC, I have a ripped copy of the CD.  That's what the modern day definition of piracy is, sadly, Nintendo thinks it's outright theft, but it is a lost potential sale I guess. Funny coming from the people who use publicly available ROMs in the VC, I once compared Kirby's Dream Land 3 in an RPX rip, and matched its code 1:1 to a ROM file I found *shrug*.


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## CORE (Nov 15, 2018)

Aslong as im not selling copies burned to disc or cracked executables it aint stealing. 
At the same time a purchase was made to distribute in the first place give it some time during initial release before sharing so relevant sales can be accumulated and there you go money made those less fortunate with a pirate copy also credit the software popularity and in turn gets more sales and more freebies yes but most importantly POPULARITY.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 15, 2018)

CORE said:


> Aslong as im not selling copies burned to disc or cracked executables it aint stealing.
> At the same time a purchase was made to distribute in the first place give it some time during initial release before sharing so relevant sales can be accumulated and there you go money made those less fortunate with a pirate copy also credit the software popularity and in turn gets more sales and more freebies yes but most importantly POPULARITY.



Agreed, and I think piracy issues are more a result of insufficient services provided than anything else, IMO. Nintendo is sitting on a goldmine, there is so much potential, and heck, having more old school games on the eShop could potentially sell more systems by that alone. Oh, but oh no, they had to squander this chance by being the over litigious  morons they are.

I still find it very cathartic to see them shutting these sites down frantically in vain, all the while I get to enjoy thousands of Nintendo ROMs backed up on a undisclosed HDD.


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## boombox (Nov 15, 2018)

That's far too much, and as people have said - it's mainly older generation ROMs which are difficult and sometimes near impossible to get hold of now with 3rd parties selling and not Nintendo - these are barely part of their profit margin. I understand they need to seek action, but this is an impossibly high price for 1 person.


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## defectiveshadow (Nov 15, 2018)

What's with all the Nintendo hate? They didn't sue these guys for giving away roms for free. They sued them for running a business and profiting heavily. 

That said, $12 million is excessive! I would have thought it would have been like $50K or something and a slap on the wrist. Especially if they made nowhere near that! This is like the LimeWire/Napster shit.


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## CORE (Nov 15, 2018)

Nintendo Hate are you kidding soon you wont be able to sell tents because peeps are outside trying to catch pokemon and Nintendo now sells poketents anyone caught distributing well here we are.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 15, 2018)

CORE said:


> Nintendo Hate are you kidding soon you wont be able to sell tents because peeps are outside trying to catch pokemon and Nintendo now sells poketents anyone caught distributing well here we are.



I mean, granted, I get why they do it, to protect IP. What I don't get, is why they're trying to protect games that aren't even their IP, like say third party games. Many companies of those games are either merged or defunct, in fact, most of those games don't even generate revenue for Nintendo at all. They're like that bratty preschool kid who hoards all the cool toys, not because he wants them, but only because he doesn't want anyone else to have them.  They do it out of spite and nothing more.


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## jpmcruiser (Nov 15, 2018)

Dude fuck that holy shit, like I get cracking down on piracy but you don't need to have them pay 12 million goddamn dollars over something like this


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## PalomPorom (Nov 15, 2018)

The only people who profit from retro games are those high balling eBay bastards
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sent from my toaster running Rebug


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## TheMajesticMrL (Nov 15, 2018)

I like how no one actually looked this up

https://torrentfreak.com/nintendo-wins-12-million-from-pirate-rom-site-operators-181112/
"We can only speculate but it’s possible that Nintendo negotiated such a high number, on paper, to act as a deterrent for other site operators. In practice, the defendants could end up paying much less."

It is highly doubtful Nintendo would actually demand this much money from these people. They don't need it, nor would any common person be able to pay it.
Chill the fuck out and don't blindly hate Nintendo for something that is very likely not going to actually happen.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 15, 2018)

TheMajesticMrL said:


> I like how no one actually looked this up
> 
> https://torrentfreak.com/nintendo-wins-12-million-from-pirate-rom-site-operators-181112/
> "We can only speculate but it’s possible that Nintendo negotiated such a high number, on paper, to act as a deterrent for other site operators. In practice, the defendants could end up paying much less."
> ...



Yeah, well, the same to those who blindly defend Nintendo's shitty handling of eShop and three NES games per month.


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## Alex4nder001 (Nov 16, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> Fuck Nintendo.
> As a matter effect I’ll always buy their console illegally so they loose money and never buy a game from them.
> 
> I wish Sega was still here and killed this Stupid Company that went downhill.
> ...


How on earth are you gonna buy a console ILLEGALLY? I don’t think it’s possible unless you steal one from the factory or buy a clone or counterfeit. I’m a huge digital pirate myself, but hardware piracy? Is that even possible?


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## TheMajesticMrL (Nov 16, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Yeah, well, the same to those who blindly defend Nintendo's shitty handling of eShop and three NES games per month.


can't tell if this is supposed to be a jab at me or not but if it is I never mentioned that in my post so
I don't see a problem with eShop as it as though, could use games with more quality imo I guess, but I agree the replacement for Virtual Console sucks but at this point I've accepted it because it's not worth getting annoyed about. I've also never seen anyone blatantly want the NES games per month though so Idk where that came from.

Point is people need to not be like "omg I hate you Nintendo!!!!!!!!!! never buying ur stuff again!!!!!!!" when this lawsuit, again, is almost certainly not going to force these people to pay fucking $12 million in recompense. Like that article said, it's probably just a scare tactic for other ROM sites. This has happened with lawsuits in the past before, not necessarily Nintendo ones, but it has. But it's obvious Nintendo is sick and tired of people pirating their games and want it to stop, I get that. They are a company and need to protect their property. The question there that people will have is, if they want pirating to stop, why don't they release the games again? Well most of the games already are on consoles like the Wii U and 3DS which still have working eShops. But conversely, the PSP has had some of its games commonly pirated and emulated for years and sales of those games on both the platform itself and Steam haven't been hurt nearly as much as most people would think. So then, why does Nintendo care so much about protecting their games from being pirated and emulated? I dunno, I'm not an expert, I never claimed to be, I don't have all the answers.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 16, 2018)

TheMajesticMrL said:


> can't tell if this is supposed to be a jab at me or not but if it is I never mentioned that in my post so
> I don't see a problem with eShop as it as though, could use games with more quality imo I guess, but I agree the replacement for Virtual Console sucks but at this point I've accepted it because it's not worth getting annoyed about. I've also never seen anyone blatantly want the NES games per month though so Idk where that came from.
> 
> Point is people need to not be like "omg I hate you Nintendo!!!!!!!!!! never buying ur stuff again!!!!!!!" when this lawsuit, again, is almost certainly not going to force these people to pay fucking $12 million in recompense. Like that article said, it's probably just a scare tactic for other ROM sites. They're sick and tired of people pirating their games and want it to stop, I get that. They are a company and need to protect their property. The question there that people will have is, if they want pirating to stop, why don't they release the games again? Well most of the games already are on consoles like the Wii U and 3DS which still have working eShops. But conversely, the PSP has had some of its games commonly pirated and emulated for years and sales of those games on both the platform itself and Steam haven't been hurt nearly as much as most people would think. So then, why does Nintendo care so much about protecting their games from being pirated and emulated? I dunno, I'm not an expert, I never claimed to be, I don't have all the answers.



But most of those ROMs were third party games, they sure as shit don't own the IP to third party ROMs on Nintendo systems.


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## TheMajesticMrL (Nov 16, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> But most of those ROMs were third party games, they sure as shit don't own the IP to third party ROMs on Nintendo systems.


I mean, regardless of who owns the IP it's still stealing and illegal.
There's the argument of having a ROM of a game you own is fine but let's be honest most people download ROMs because they don't have the game

EDIT: I'd like to add to this that there is a lot of debate about what is illegal or legal about ROMs, but sharing and distributing ROMs, as well as hosting them on websites like this couple had done, is illegal. Nintendo had every right to do what they did. However, I'm only defending Nintendo here in that them taking down ROMs of their stuff is 100% within their jurisdiction. But if they want people to stop pirating their games, they need to stop putting them out at full price or on a monthly basis that prevents people from playing them whenever they want.


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## Ritsuki (Nov 16, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Again, I reiterate that piracy is not the same as theft. It's like I rent a book from the library or CD, I copy the contents and return the material like normal. Have I physically stolen it? Nope, as far as the library knows, it's good as new, but at my PC, I have a ripped copy of the CD.  That's what the modern day definition of piracy is, sadly, Nintendo thinks it's outright theft, but it is a lost potential sale I guess. Funny coming from the people who use publicly available ROMs in the VC, I once compared Kirby's Dream Land 3 in an RPX rip, and matched its code 1:1 to a ROM file I found *shrug*.


Well, not defending Nintendo because I would love to see a library of retro games, even if it means paying for it, and Ninty is far from that, but I don't know where you live but in my country (Switzerland) it's actually illegal to make a copy of a book like that (it's a violation of copyright laws since it's an unauthorized reproduction) and IIRC it's the case in some other countries. We even have an extra fee in schools so they can give us partial copies of copyrighted material. Now, of course, nobody is going to check that because it is physically impossible. So okay, it's really a shame to declare war on those sites without giving a true satisfying alternative, and you're right, comparing it to theft isn't right (actually I never understood that analogy, legally it ISN'T theft, and just like for knowledge or culture, if someone "steals" it from you, you don't lose it, it's just sharing, willingly or not), but it's still illegal, they knew it and now they're facing the consequences.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 16, 2018)

Ritsuki said:


> Well, not defending Nintendo because I would love to see a library of retro games, even if it means paying for it, and Ninty is far from that, but I don't know where you live but in my country (Switzerland) it's actually illegal to make a copy of a book like that (it's a violation of copyright laws since it's an unauthorized reproduction) and IIRC it's the case in some other countries. We even have an extra fee in schools so they can give us partial copies of copyrighted material. Now, of course, nobody is going to check that because it is physically impossible. So okay, it's really a shame to declare war on those sites without giving a true satisfying alternative, and you're right, comparing it to theft isn't right (actually I never understood that analogy, legally it ISN'T theft, and just like for knowledge or culture, if someone "steals" it from you, you don't lose it, it's just sharing, willingly or not), but it's still illegal, they knew it and now they're facing the consequences.



Exactly, at its core, piracy is the illegal duplication of copyrighted works, and more often than not, is punishable in a civil court and not criminal court. That said, Nintendo isn't changing their stance, nor offering more on the Switch, so as such, I'll continue to use said old ROMs until such a time I can get them legally on said console.


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## RedBlueGreen (Nov 16, 2018)

smf said:


> It was decided between them, so I imagine he looked at his bank balance and told them what he could afford to pay based on how much money he'd been making off all of you by selling pirated roms.
> 
> He probably still walked away with a large chunk of cash.
> 
> ...


I guarantee the defendant didn't decide he wanted to pay them that much. Either Nintendo's lawyers picked some even more ridiculously high amount and they negotiated down, or they just arbitrarily picked $12,000,000.


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## smf (Nov 17, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> I guarantee the defendant didn't decide he wanted to pay them that much. Either Nintendo's lawyers picked some even more ridiculously high amount and they negotiated down, or they just arbitrarily picked $12,000,000.



I can guarantee he did choose to pay them.

1. Nobody forced him to settle.

2. If he can't afford 12 million then he will not pay it. As it's a civil case then I believe bankruptcy will wipe out his debt to nintendo.

3. If he's not going to pay it back then he may as well have gone to court and tried his luck.

Of course he would have wanted to pay $0, but he did chose to offer more.


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## Obveron (Nov 17, 2018)

xs4all said:


> Not sure what the law is over there, but can't they file for bankruptcy and not pay a cent? But $12mil, that is a fare amount of spare change, funny how Nintendo lawyers who think a simple family couple can afford to cough up that much of $$$.


Bankruptcy doesn't work that way.  You have to pay every cent you have before you can claim bankruptcy.  Nintendo likely doesn't expect the entire amount.  but it's a high enough amount that it warns any individual they will lose all their wealth if sued by Nintendo.


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## smf (Nov 17, 2018)

Obveron said:


> Bankruptcy doesn't work that way.  You have to pay every cent you have before you can claim bankruptcy.



Right, you walk away from bankruptcy with nothing (that is traceable). They let you keep things if you can prove they are necessary to your work, you give any money you make that you don't need to live on for the next few years.

If you live in a rented house and have a rented car, then you pretty much can go bankrupt without paying anything. It helps if you planned to do that all along & have managed to hide investments.



Obveron said:


> Nintendo likely doesn't expect the entire amount.  but it's a high enough amount that it warns any individual they will lose all their wealth if sued by Nintendo.



If they sued 99% of people for a million then it would be enough to take all their wealth.


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## PkmnMstr10 (Nov 18, 2018)

I love how people think they understand how to run a business, let alone a multibillion dollar corporation.

And reading through this, only one person seems to have noticed that Nintendo was initially asking an amount that totaled into the billions, so $12 million was being let off easy in comparison.

Hate on Nintendo all you want, but they are within their legal right to enforce their IP, and they have to do it. If they don't they will be in a weak position for if someone comes along and does something especially damaging with their IP.


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## t.schultz (Nov 18, 2018)

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.


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## Song of storms (Nov 18, 2018)

I was so sick and tired of the whole retarded "you can't download games anywhere else" that I actually took the effort of looking up the most downloaded rom files on famous pirate websites. Title on the left, number of downloads on the right.

Super Mario World - ~6,900,000+ virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Pokemon Yellow Version - ~3,000,000 virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Mario Kart 64 - ~2,700,000 virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Donkey Kong Country - 2,500,000+ virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Pokemon Gold Version ~2,500,000 virtual console: available. Rarity: common

There are a ton other ROMs that have been downloaded millions of times that are all either available on virtual console or you can buy cheap from the original console, or they even received a well-acclaimed remake, available to purchase. The only game I've seen breaking the million downloads that isn't available on virtual console is Dragonball Z: Buu's fury, a third party game where Nintendo has no rights to add on a virtual console on their own.

(I can't provide the name of the rom website, sorry. It's my mania to follow the rules)

Can we drop the retarded argument that these websites are "needed" to "preserve" games when all they're doing are letting millions of people download games they didn't buy? Of course a company like Nintendo has to step in. Do you want to "preserve" games? Make an illegal website that hosts torrents that lead to games that are no longer available anywhere. But no one does that. Why? Because these websites don't give a shit about your "preservation" morale and just want an easy profit.


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## tiamat999 (Nov 18, 2018)

But what about like phantasy star portable 2 infinity my favorite game ever can only be played on psp emu.doesnt help that sega themselves removed it from store so yeah we need these sites to exist


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 18, 2018)

tiamat999 said:


> But what about like phantasy star portable 2 infinity my favorite game ever can only be played on psp emu.doesnt help that sega themselves removed it from store so yeah we need these sites to exist


Allow me to explain something to you. This is an easy concept to grasp, and there are two parts to it, yeah?

1. No, we don't NEED these sites to "exist". You can't keep throwing the argument around that you're looking to preserve the games or that you can't legally acquire them. I don't care that you pirate, but don't make half assed excuses for it.

2. These sites and resources will never cease to exist. This specific case was they were making money off of it. I know some of the people here don't understand they offered a premium service and actually turned a profit on ad revenue due to the excessive clicks they got daily. They weren't exactly "small" by any means. It's one of an infinite number of sites.


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## tiamat999 (Nov 18, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Allow me to explain something to you. This is an easy concept to grasp, and there are two parts to it, yeah?
> 
> 1. No, we don't NEED these sites to "exist". You can't keep throwing the argument around that you're looking to preserve the games or that you can't legally acquire them. I don't care that you pirate, but don't make half assed excuses for it.
> 
> 2. These sites and resources will never cease to exist. This specific case was they were making money off of it. I know some of the people here don't understand they offered a premium service and actually turned a profit on ad revenue due to the excessive clicks they got daily. They weren't exactly "small" by any means. It's one of an infinite number of sites.



Well if sega wants to re release it i will be more than happy to buy it but until than arrrrggggghhhhh


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## Zidapi (Nov 19, 2018)

Kubas_inko said:


> Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your *OLD FOCKING GAMES???*


eBay? Retro game stores? Virtual Console/eShop?

aka the same places the rest of us get them.

Both the law _and _Nintendo’s stance on ROMs is clear, there’s no pleading ignorance on this topic.

Nintendo have a long history of aggressively defending their IP, anyone baiting them does so at their own risk.


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## Kubas_inko (Nov 19, 2018)

Zidapi said:


> eBay? Retro game stores? Virtual Console/eShop?
> 
> aka the same places the rest of us get them.
> 
> ...


From which only 1 generates profit towards nintendo and not every game is on vc


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## Sundree (Nov 20, 2018)

Look, I understand if you're sueing them, if they're giving out Wii, Wii U, or Switch roms. But if it's anything below the 7th generation of console's, I think it's ok to let them go. You're not going to lose any money over a game that's no longer being sold at retail. What? Are you going to re-sell NES games that can barely hold someone's attention for a month, for $10 dollars on virtual console?

I'm sorry, I think $10 is a little steep for Ice Climbers and Urban Champ.


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## goodha2 (Nov 20, 2018)

Nintendo is a big shame.


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## Freqman (Dec 1, 2018)

think they would sell more games on their web service or on the eshop if they effectively got rid of every single roms site and sharing methods tomorrow?  nope.


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## Tomy66 (Dec 11, 2018)

Anyone can recommend a similar site like emuparadise? It was my fav.


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## pasc (Dec 14, 2018)

Kind of sucks to be hit in a scapegoat-esque manner like this...



Freqman said:


> think they would sell more games on their web service or on the eshop if they effectively got rid of every single roms site and sharing methods tomorrow?  nope.


For that to happen they'd have to deliver quality content...
Something that - since the DS ceased to be - hasn't been the case IMO.


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## Sternosaur (Dec 22, 2018)

Feel like this was 100% a power move to scare others.


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## QuazaRayy (May 5, 2019)

my favourite rom site shutdown. now i have to use [removed] that tries to give me viruses reee.


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## ThoD (May 5, 2019)

QuazaRayy said:


> my favourite rom site shutdown. now i have to use [removed].


Edit your post, it's against the rules to mention ROM/Warez sites...


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## QuazaRayy (May 5, 2019)

ThoD said:


> Edit your post, it's against the rules to mention ROM/Warez sites...



done


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## mezz0 (Oct 23, 2019)

Dumpsites are way too public these days. I can't imagine why someone would run a 'semi' public setup like that. I remember about 25 years ago, you had 1 chance to upload a zero day release to a BBS, failing to do so would get your phone number blacklisted forever and ruin any chance you would get a leech account on that BBS.

Piracy is illegal; you're not supposed to be able to do it in plain sight and get away with it.
If you think otherwise, you're doing it wrong


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## veenx0704 (Jun 3, 2020)

12 millions...that is like a walking prison 24/7....


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## Plasmaster09 (Jun 11, 2020)

both sides are wrong.
nintendo has every right to uphold their copyright, even for their older games. this is so that said copyright never gets contested and they can sell said older games if they ever bring back Virtual Console and the like.
however, _this is too damn much._


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## kublai (Jun 11, 2020)

Let's protest Nintendo. Retrogamer's lives  matter too!!!!


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## Phenj (Jun 11, 2020)

"How dare you bro it's their property it's called copyright i can't wait to buy retrogames for 60$ at my 34th birthday!!"


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## LingFox (Apr 20, 2022)

Phenj said:


> "How dare you bro it's their property it's called copyright i can't wait to buy retrogames for 60$ at my 34th birthday!!"


You forgot to add drift issue and their proprietary emulators not working half the time

oh damn, I can't remove my own posts. Sorry for necroing, I didn't check the date.


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## Phenj (Jul 18, 2022)

LingFox said:


> You forgot to add drift issue and their proprietary emulators not working half the time
> 
> oh damn, I can't remove my own posts. Sorry for necroing, I didn't check the date.


don't worry bud


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## moronic (Jul 18, 2022)

wtfffff


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## spoggi (Jul 18, 2022)

Happy that im pirating on my switch


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