# Reggie Fils-Aimé explains how Nintendo will not repeat Wii U mistakes for the NX



## MisterPantsEyes (Aug 26, 2016)

WHOA HAPPENING! REGGIE = GOD

NINTENDO IS SAVED GUYS


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## mashers (Aug 26, 2016)

Voxel said:


> helping people understand the "uniqueness" of the system and what it means for "the game-playing experience".


This does not fill me with confidence.


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## The Catboy (Aug 26, 2016)

Remember when they said they won't make the same mistake with the Wii U as they did the Wii and would focus on 
"hardcore" gamers and 3rd party support? 
Yeah, that was cute.


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## zoogie (Aug 26, 2016)

Reggie's entire job is marketing and PR so it's no surprise that "let's communicate better" is his way of contributing.

We all know that the real barometer of the NX's success will be the cleverness/quality/price of the system and the software that supports it.


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## ScarletDreamz (Aug 26, 2016)

mashers said:


> This does not fill me with confidence.


Exactly that i was thinking... that phrase...


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## bowser (Aug 26, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Remember when they said they won't make the same mistake with the Wii U as they did the Wii and would focus on
> "hardcore" gamers and 3rd party support?
> Yeah, that was cute.


And also when they said they learned from their mistakes about the 3DS launch with no games. Then they went ahead and launched the Wii U with even fewer games


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## the_randomizer (Aug 26, 2016)

mashers said:


> This does not fill me with confidence.



Which they didn't explain with the Wii U.


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## mashers (Aug 26, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> Which they didn't explain with the Wii U.


But the Wii U wasn't unique. Well, it was, but tablet controls weren't unprecedented at the time. They just mashed it up into a console. It worked well IMO. I just have a horrible feeling NX is going to be something really tacky.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 26, 2016)

mashers said:


> But the Wii U wasn't unique. Well, it was, but tablet controls weren't unprecedented at the time. They just mashed it up into a console. It worked well IMO. I just have a horrible feeling NX is going to be something really tacky.



Not gonna jump the gun until more is revealed, so until I see more info, pics, etc, I'm gonna remain neutral. The Wii U was very badly marketed.


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## cooroxd (Aug 26, 2016)

Well for one, if the NX can be hacked on launch day; I'm sold ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )


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## codezer0 (Aug 26, 2016)

Whoa, Reggie finally got to be the CEO proper? I guess the board at Nintendo of Japan had to concede that the _filthy gaijin_ knew how to sell their stuff. 

Much as I should be happier, I'm more concerned they'll just kick him out as soon as another Japanese intern asks for the position.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

mashers said:


> This does not fill me with confidence.


uniqueness could literally mean detachable controllers (as disgusting an idea it is)

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Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Remember when they said they won't make the same mistake with the Wii U as they did the Wii and would focus on
> "hardcore" gamers and 3rd party support?
> Yeah, that was cute.


sucks really, Nintendo had the makings of a great console imo. Even with its weak architecture it couldve sold well if not for the shitty marketing that is Nintendo of Japan.


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## KiiWii (Aug 26, 2016)

I hope it's called the NX after all this time...


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

KiiWii said:


> I hope it's called the NX after all this time...


Probably not knowing nintendo.


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## Luckkill4u (Aug 26, 2016)

Am I the only one who hates Reggie? I honestly don't believe a thing he says. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7


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## Joe88 (Aug 26, 2016)

> how they need to do a better job helping people understand the "uniqueness" of the system and what it means for "the game-playing experience


aka: gimmicks


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## endoverend (Aug 26, 2016)

Wow it's almost like Nintendo makes generic statements like this all the time and they never mean anything ;o;


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## VinsCool (Aug 26, 2016)

cooroxd said:


> Well for one, if the NX can be hacked on launch day; I'm sold ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )


If we manage to pull a PSP 1.5 on this, I expect a very big success, hehehe.


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## emigre (Aug 26, 2016)

Let's not fuck around. The Wii U was a mess from conception to release. There was no idea on what to do with it alongside with no support.


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## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 26, 2016)

I don't believe them not even for a second. This is the same BS that Nintendo told us BEFORE the WiiU came out and look how that did.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

mashers said:


> But the Wii U wasn't unique. Well, it was, but tablet controls weren't unprecedented at the time. They just mashed it up into a console. It worked well IMO. I just have a horrible feeling NX is going to be something really tacky.


Personally I don't think it did work that well.  I don't need a second screen for a console that just sits in front of my much bigger screen.  The NX at least has a reason for that second screen to exist if it's a hybrid portable console.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 26, 2016)

tl;dr "I am PR, buy our things" 

Good news


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## spotanjo3 (Aug 26, 2016)

Nintendo of America don't created Console.. Japan did.


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## mgrev (Aug 26, 2016)

So he is admitting that the Wii U was a flop.


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## codezer0 (Aug 26, 2016)

mgrev said:


> So he is admitting that the Wii U was a flop.


It would be insane to suggest otherwise, really.

At this point they pretty much have to brace to make the nx launch as strong as possible. But I doubt anything will ever top the Dreamcast launch in the US.


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## loco365 (Aug 26, 2016)

mashers said:


> This does not fill me with confidence.


To be honest, when the Wii U was presented in commercials, it wasn't really shown to be a different console. I think that's what he's trying to say is that they need to actually convey that this is something completely different.


codezer0 said:


> But I doubt anything will ever top the Dreamcast launch in the US.


What about the Sega Saturn launch? I'm pretty sure it has everything else beat by a long shot.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 26, 2016)

All I see is talk of "experience" and "uniqueness" - it's a piece of plastic, a means to play the games on it. Unless they stop treating their consoles as toys in and out of themselves, things won't work out - it's not the 80'ies anymore.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 26, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Remember when they said they won't make the same mistake with the Wii U as they did the Wii and would focus on
> "hardcore" gamers and 3rd party support?
> Yeah, that was cute.


Well, the thing is, they _did_. The problem with the Wii U was that, as Reggie is admitting, marketing was an absolute flop. Nintendo was relying on brand recognition of the Wii name alone to carry the Wii U to success, but the problem with that was that the original Wii fanbase was largely populated by people who bought it as a recreational device as opposed to a gaming device and thought the Wii U was simply an add-on because they didn't follow Nintendo at all closely.

The fact that Nintendo is both acknowledging this mistake and saying they will fix it is absolutely mind-blowing to me, because it means they're finally _listening_. They're finally _paying attention_. I HOPE that this time around we get the old Nintendo back, because it would be awesome to me to see a new era of GOOD Nintendo games being published, even if the hardware is slightly underpowered compared to the competition


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## Jay Clay (Aug 26, 2016)

_"we have to do a better job communicating the positioning for the product."_

I don't see any difference in this subject, Nintendo always keep hermetic about how their consoles works, if they don't want to make same mistake why make same ones?, at this point microsoft or sony would not be able to replicate some of the tech from NX, so why don't spread the NX project around the world, talk about what NX can do, let the masses knows about it so  they can talk about positioning.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 26, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Well, the thing is, they _did_. The problem with the Wii U was that, as Reggie is admitting, marketing was an absolute flop. Nintendo was relying on brand recognition of the Wii name alone to carry the Wii U to success, but the problem with that was that the original Wii fanbase was largely populated by people who bought it as a recreational device as opposed to a gaming device and thought the Wii U was simply an add-on because they didn't follow Nintendo at all closely.
> 
> The fact that Nintendo is both acknowledging this mistake and saying they will fix it is absolutely mind-blowing to me, because it means they're finally _listening_. They're finally _paying attention_. I HOPE that this time around we get the old Nintendo back, because it would be awesome to me to see a new era of GOOD Nintendo games being published, even if the hardware is slightly underpowered compared to the competition


Marketing was only half the reason the Wii U was such a massive flop, and probably the lesser half if we're being honest. The other half involves the extreme lack of titles released for the system, by both first _and_ third parties. Instead of having a console with a steady release of various games across it's lifespan, the Wii U had maybe 1 or 2 worthwhile titles released _every few months, _resulting in extreme periods of game drought when it comes to any meaningful software whatsoever. Their absolute disregard for, y'know, games to play is Nintendo's biggest problem with the Wii U, not their shitty attempts at marketing it. 

This statement means jack beyond the fact that Nintendo still isn't aware that _games _sell the console, not marketing and asking everyone to "pls understand" their gimmicks.


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## Leo121 (Aug 26, 2016)

Just get better third party support from developers. It's very hard to convince someone to buy Nintendo's console just for Mario, Zelda and a few other games. I only own like five Gamecube games.


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## Deleted member 370671 (Aug 26, 2016)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> This statement means jack beyond the fact that Nintendo still isn't aware that _games _sell the console, not marketing and asking everyone to "pls understand" their gimmicks.


Well, actually, they were aware of that at some point. Remember the GameCube was sold for $99, saying that a console is only bought to play games and not for the console itself?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 26, 2016)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Marketing was only half the reason the Wii U was such a massive flop, and probably the lesser half if we're being honest. The other half involves the extreme lack of titles released for the system, by both first _and_ third parties. Instead of having a console with a steady release of various games across it's lifespan, the Wii U had maybe 1 or 2 worthwhile titles released _every few months, _resulting in extreme periods of game drought when it comes to any meaningful software whatsoever. Their absolute disregard for, y'know, games to play is Nintendo's biggest problem with the Wii U, not their shitty attempts at marketing it.
> 
> This statement means jack beyond the fact that Nintendo still isn't aware that _games _sell the console, not marketing and asking everyone to "pls understand" their gimmicks.


I'd argue that the reason it wasn't getting games is because of the marketing issues; developers don't want to risk money on a console that isn't selling. Case in point, look at the third party lineup at the beginning of the Wii U's lifespan vs. now. Heck, we even got Assassin's Creed: Black Flag!

And aside from that, there's the part of the interview where Reggie says 


> And we have to do a better job from a software planning standpoint to have that continuous beat of great new games that are motivating more and more people to pick up the hardware and more and more people to pick up the software. Those are the critical lessons. [...] You have to make sure people understand the concept, you have to make sure you’ve got a great library of games, and when you do that, you tend to do well.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Marketing was only half the reason the Wii U was such a massive flop, and probably the lesser half if we're being honest. The other half involves the extreme lack of titles released for the system, by both first _and_ third parties. Instead of having a console with a steady release of various games across it's lifespan, the Wii U had maybe 1 or 2 worthwhile titles released _every few months, _resulting in extreme periods of game drought when it comes to any meaningful software whatsoever. Their absolute disregard for, y'know, games to play is Nintendo's biggest problem with the Wii U, not their shitty attempts at marketing it.
> 
> This statement means jack beyond the fact that Nintendo still isn't aware that _games _sell the console, not marketing and asking everyone to "pls understand" their gimmicks.


The wii u didnt lack first party games.

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emigre said:


> Let's not fuck around. The Wii U was a mess from conception to release. There was no idea on what to do with it alongside with no support.


It really wasnt in terms of its idea.


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## chartube12 (Aug 26, 2016)

I am just gonna repeat what i told ign....Nintendo hasn't fired Reggie. That shows they have not learned jack!


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

chartube12 said:


> I am just gonna repeat what i told ign....Nintendo hasn't fired Reggie. That shows they have not learned jack!


What did reggie ever do wrong? He's a meme, if anything thats the only thing that keeps nintendo in the news.


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## Deleted User (Aug 26, 2016)

Woah. Guys the NX will be the new breakout console and won't try to be """""UNIQUE""""" for the sake of being """"""UNIQUE""""" because that's totally not what Nintendo does.


I will judge when t comes out and not now.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 26, 2016)

Leo121 said:


> Just get better third party support from developers.



Unless you are going to fund it, and I doubt Nintendo has the juice for that, then these days I reckon that is middleware, ease/familiarity of programming and presumably online infrastructure.
The wii u was pretty much kicked in the head about the time unreal said nah -- http://gbatemp.net/threads/unreal-engine-4-to-not-support-wii-u.327758/ . I am not sure what position unreal is in today (I think my new console I would sooner lack unreal than unity but would definitely plump for both) but Nintendo don't seem to be rolling out the carpet.
Ease of programming... it is an ancient architecture overclocked and with three of them glued together badly, and the OS side of things is not much better.
Online, as much as I don't care for online it does seem to be a factor these days. About the only positives I have to say about Nintendo's offerings are it is free and we do not seem to have had any major security incidents. The regions (or at least the handling of Europe), the content, the functionality, the effectiveness of it, the friends/matchmaking... everything else that makes a service. Amateur hour at best there.

So like the others I going with extreme cynicism until proven otherwise. It seems I was beaten to quoting the same things being said for the wii u, however I will instead take the opportunity to piss on the 3ds a bit more. I loved and continue to love the GBA and DS (and GB/GBC for that matter) but they blew it hard with the 3ds, the mass exodus of devs from the thing being my metric. To that end I will go back to calling for Nintendo to become a peripheral (not sure why, their last amazing offering was either the DS touch screen which was less innovative and more inevitable and their last functional offering was the GC controller which was hardly world beating) and third party software dev; I see not benefit in them continuing to develop consoles, not even as a foil for some of the silliness of MS and Sony.


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## chartube12 (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> What did reggie ever do wrong? He's a meme, if anything thats the only thing that keeps nintendo in the news.



I have find him to be a political mouth piece of Nintendo. He more often then not sounds like he's talking down to gamers. He also misrepresents what gamers in the NA want from Nintendo. He's like the token white guy in 90s black shows..you know the annoying and idiotic character whom is only a around to meet fcc guide lines n is used mostly for cheap and sad attemps at laughs.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Unless you are going to fund it, and I doubt Nintendo has the juice for that, then these days I reckon that is middleware, ease/familiarity of programming and presumably online infrastructure.
> The wii u was pretty much kicked in the head about the time unreal said nah -- http://gbatemp.net/threads/unreal-engine-4-to-not-support-wii-u.327758/ . I am not sure what position unreal is in today (I think my new console I would sooner lack unreal than unity but would definitely plump for both) but Nintendo don't seem to be rolling out the carpet.
> Ease of programming... it is an ancient architecture overclocked and with three of them glued together badly, and the OS side of things is not much better.
> Online, as much as I don't care for online it does seem to be a factor these days. About the only positives I have to say about Nintendo's offerings are it is free and we do not seem to have had any major security incidents. The regions (or at least the handling of Europe), the content, the functionality, the effectiveness of it, the friends/matchmaking... everything else that makes a service. Amateur hour at best there.
> ...


I'd much rather have them make consoles, they really add something to the table imo. Also its sales that matter and the 3ds is selling well (even if not near its  predecessors.) NX being a hybrid and running ARM would make it a much better console than both the PS4 and XBONE, you could play console games on the go and play games at high resolutions at home, a shared library is the way to go. I for one am optimistic.

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chartube12 said:


> I have find him to be a political mouth piece of Nintendo. He more often then not sounds like he's talking down to gamers. He also misrepresents what gamers in the NA want from Nintendo. He's like the token white guy in 90s black shows..you know the annoying and idiotic character whom is only a around to meet fcc guide lines n is used mostly for cheap and sad attemps at laughs.


Maybe for you americans but hes great PR. I've never heard him talk down to gamers. And how can he misrepresent?


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## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 26, 2016)

Ah, I have the highest hopes for Nintendo, IMO, it's the last real console developer, MicroSuck and Sony basically make cheaper pre-built PCs.

The moment Nintendo goes third party I'm quitting gaming altogether tbh, Nintendo makes their games fine tuned to their consoles and vice versa, they don't need $600 consoles to make some of the best games ever unlike Sony, they don't make awful rehashes every single year to suck out cash like Actishitsion either.


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## codezer0 (Aug 26, 2016)

Team Fail said:


> What about the Sega Saturn launch? I'm pretty sure it has everything else beat by a long shot.


You mean the one that pissed off everyone simultaneously because nobody was properly prepared for it?


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

FrozenDragon150 said:


> Ah, I have the highest hopes for Nintendo, IMO, it's the last real console developer, MicroSuck and Sony basically make cheaper pre-built PCs.
> 
> The moment Nintendo goes third party I'm quitting gaming altogether tbh, Nintendo makes their games fine tuned to their consoles and vice versa, they don't need $600 consoles to make some of the best games ever unlike Sony, they don't make awful rehashes every single year to suck out cash like Actishitsion either.


Sony isnt THAT bad.


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## codezer0 (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Sony isnt THAT bad.


Yes, they are. And rather than take constructive criticism and appreciate fan efforts to improve their systems, they feud and ban the makers of these efforts or worse, try to have them arrested like George hotz.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 26, 2016)

What do they add for being a console maker?

Quality control at a level worth speaking of? Maybe in the NES and SNES days but nobody wants to go back to the stranglehold there. Today the Nintendo seal is a running joke.
Controllers? Sure I guess they have the nice dpad still, though I hear the final patents will expire soon and most have already. That said I can't imagine there are many for the glory that is proper push button switched controls and nobody seems to make those right now.
Hardware like the dominant platform (nowadays the PC)? Again back in the NES and SNES days it offered something over the PCs and minicomputers of the day (actual scrolling, whoo)
Being a joy to work with? Hardly.
A reference grade service in anything? I already dissed their online offerings, their OS abstraction stuff (MS and sony handling chat and the like far better, Nintendo then giving rise to the whole splatoon thing)
A chance to work with some great IPs? I guess they have loosened up a tiny bit but we are not going to see them unstable any of the big guns any time soon.
A chance to get a mega game funded? A console exclusive for Nintendo is not really a draw these days, and less than that of Sony or MS. You probably won't even get some marketing on the cheap for being on Nintendo gear.
A chance to get in on a potential big audience mega cheaply? What with Android in the world?

The only thing I can think of is they still have a thing in the minds of some to be "family friendly", whatever that means. Such a thing could matter but if you were a greasy teenager in the US when the NES hit we are not far off many of those possibly having grandchildren ( Mother's mean age at first birth: 25.6 (2011 est.) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html ) so games are hardly an unknown. I will give that though Sony and MS could possibly have cleaned up here they seem not to have, no idea why.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 26, 2016)

Usually the time to make decisions and judgement is when one is able to experience things. They said what they wanted to and we heard the statements. Acording to the phrase of "mouth writing the check that bodies can't cash"  Reggie and his team of NX marketing has their bodies ready fo any back lash, and i still have not prepared mine cause for one thing. I don't know the price. Second, don't know launch titles, third, Don't know how the heck  i am supposed to play this CONTRAPTION and then no assurance of what to expect. 

It reminds me of 2013 feburary when playatstion announced the PS4 later the year, but had no console design, we never got to saw it during that conference. But they talked a lot about what they hope to bring and expect us to see coming for it. Most of it was a test demo of graphics than anything. 

I want to believe in nintendo like i did whan i had to decide what to buy first. I am already disappointed i payed over $350 for launch day deluxe system only to get price drop less than a year and no compesation. (Unlike nintendo ambassador program) I spent less on a model 3 PS3 and got a better deal for it. Shame how that worked better.

One thing i do not hope to see is a price tag over $500, less than 12 games as launch titles (Not including digitial only indie games) Or a poor internal storage for data under 250 GB or bad controller support. We all know how much the gamepad lacked in funtion with touch screen games or actually being useful in majority of titles. A certain boundary has been established already and i don't want to see things like that in 2017.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> What do they add for being a console maker?
> 
> Quality control at a level worth speaking of? Maybe in the NES and SNES days but nobody wants to go back to the stranglehold there. Today the Nintendo seal is a running joke.
> Controllers? Sure I guess they have the nice dpad still, though I hear the final patents will expire soon and most have already. That said I can't imagine there are many for the glory that is proper push button switched controls and nobody seems to make those right now.
> ...


1. What issue is there with the quality? The wiiu and 3ds seem prefectly fine to me.
2.The wii u gamepad feels nice, maybe for small hands.
3.thats a simple fix you act like nintendo will never hear.
4. Your last two points are useless, they dont add much whether nintendo becomes a third party or not.
5. Yes, it is possible, there are gamers out there who want a good, simple gaming experience on the go and then continue at home, nothing really offers that with great success, Nintendo IP's sell consoles, maybe not as much as one would hope but they still sell consoles just look at how many wii u's sold after the release of sm4sh.


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 26, 2016)

Sometimes it's better to get back to the roots. A cool looking console and traditional controllers that can compete with PS5 and Xbox Scorpio in terms of power would do the job. Heck, why not re-launch the SNES with better specs and game modules and call it Super NES God Super NES.


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## XDel (Aug 26, 2016)

Cool, the 2nd screen is go!


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## FAST6191 (Aug 26, 2016)

Not hardware, though being laser based I am not expecting to pull one out of the attic in 20 years and not have any worries beyond having to track down some video cables.
It was more that game wise the NES and SNES saw Nintendo exercise some measure of control (even going to court a few times in some landmark cases when people variously worked around it), something that was viewed in stark contrast to the likes of the Atari before it where "anything goes" was the order of the day.
2. Nice but hardly anything earth shattering. Unless "second screen" amounted to something when I wasn't paying attention.
3. It is not impossible but given what they did for the wii u I do not hold their hardware devs in high esteem. Equally it has been years and their online services are still shockingly poor -- granted most things I have worked on would do well to see 10000 simultaneous users but I have had offerings better than Nintendo have had years to do specced, designed, built and deployed in months either by myself or with a few mates.
4. I would not have made the points if I thought they held no relevance to the conversation, in this case it is not them being better for being a third party but things that have meant them doing well for being a console maker in the current/US+Japan thinking of the matter. MS, Sony, EA, Ubisoft, Square-Enix and more work with big and little devs and open up their portfolios all the time, Nintendo have what Bayonetta 2 and I guess they did work with Capcom a few times. If I am J random software dev with a few things to my name then Nintendo do not seem to be giving them a shot at anything where the others seem happy to give it a go.
5. The cost to become an android dev is a PC, an android device (maybe, VMs do well) and a token sum less than I spent on pizza this evening along with the desire to do it. Nintendo is not even close to that. Some games can shift a console, that is some desire. I have to wonder if it would not have been better for them to be a third party.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Not hardware, though being laser based I am not expecting to pull one out of the attack in 20 years and not have any worries beyond having to track down some video cables.
> It was more that game wise the NES and SNES saw Nintendo exercise some measure of control (even going to court a few times in some landmark cases when people variously worked around it), something that was viewed in stark contrast to the likes of the Atari before it where "anything goes" was the order of the day.
> 2. Nice but hardly anything earth shattering. Unless "second screen" amounted to something when I wasn't paying attention.
> 3. It is not impossible but given what they did for the wii u I do not hold their hardware devs in high esteem. Equally it has been years and their online services are still shockingly poor -- granted most things I have worked on would do well to see 10000 simultaneous users but I have had offerings better than Nintendo have had years to do specced, designed, built and deployed in months either by myself or with a few mates.
> ...


2. Does it need to be earth shattering?
3.They havent upgraded their servers since basically no one plays the wiiu and the few that do arent worth the money.
4.Nintendo have worked with indie developers a lot lately, funding them.
5.could you elaborate?
Edit: nintendo dont need android just ARM


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## GoldenSun3DS (Aug 26, 2016)

cooroxd said:


> Well for one, if the NX can be hacked on launch day; I'm sold ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )



Console hacking is just a poor man's PC. I know, because that's what I used to use my Wii as. Now I have my own PC with power that beats the "modern" consoles by a large amount.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

GoldenSun3DS said:


> Console hacking is just a poor man's PC. I know, because that's what I used to use my Wii as. Now I have my own PC with power that beats the "modern" consoles by a large amount.


the modern consoles have chips from 2011 lol not too massive an achievement.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> the modern consoles have chips from 2011 lol not too massive an achievement.


Well, gaming in 4K is massively awesome.  Meanwhile modern consoles can barely do [email protected]  So more than a slight difference in performance.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Well, gaming in 4K is massively awesome.  Meanwhile modern consoles can barely do [email protected]


You completely ignored my point.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> You completely ignored my point.


Because it's kinda moot.  They could've put newer hardware in there if they wanted, and there are plenty of PC components from 2011 which will outperform modern consoles as well.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Because it's kinda moot.  They could've put newer hardware in there if they wanted, and there are plenty of PC components from 2011 which will outperform modern consoles as well.


They could've but they didnt, thats the issue, next gen will most likely close this gap.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> They could've but they didnt, thats the issue, next gen will most likely close this gap.


Nah man, they've been saying this for the last several generations.  Consoles as we know them will begin fading out soon, it'll all be PC-type hardware powering various devices.  As long as Nintendo and Sony and Microsoft can make/publish good games, they'll be fine.  Actually, that being the case, Microsoft might be fucked.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 26, 2016)

2. I suppose not, however it is hardly the same and thus you have to put effort into porting from PC or PSbone/PS360 which is never good when you are the underdog.
3. Damned if you do, damned if you don't huh. As much as I would like online to go away then should I be in Nintendo's position I would be damned if I won't. Also I was not kidding when I said I have made and deployed stuff better than Nintendo has there, I don't know what a team of me (or someone better than me as this web lark is not my idea of a good time) costs but it is probably in the realm of rounding error for a company like Nintendo. I know you will have the legacy and embedded nonsense to deal with and the lack of flexibility that comes with being a big company but we have seen ideas that I would have dismissed as conception go live so eh.
4. Indy is nice. However when we have the likes of Square working with Tri-Ace, EA and Ubisoft doing what they do, Sony and MS playing it how they play it. Equally several of those offer nice things like mocap, servers worth speaking of, orchestras and all that where Nintendo seem to be funding, a basic toolkit (if what is said and the leaked things are anything to go by) and the notion of it being an honour to work with them.
5. Probably best to unpack things then.
I started with a chance to get in on a potential big audience mega cheaply? What with Android in the world?
To be a dev for Sony or MS you need some serious backing, funds or maybe a really good demo. Nintendo do still have an admirable install base but reckon they can either charge like they did back in the day/these last few generations. In times past it has been shown that if you have a built in audience then that is a selling point (see also all those people making facebook games which did well for a while despite not being great games). As Android has the install base, a bigger one even, and the cost of getting on the platform is tiny and maybe even nothing for an awful lot of people (you can use your own phone/tablet and a PC which you already have, once you want to release it is a $25 USD registration fee ( https://developer.android.com/distribute/googleplay/start.html ).
Beyond that you mentioned Nintendo IP still selling consoles. We could debate how many of those might have been fence sitters or just waiting but I won't, instead I had to wonder if they sold larger numbers as a third party on the other consoles if that would be better still for them. I don't know what the margins are on the Wii U and what relative to that they might lose for being a third party but it is probably not amazing and a full price game for a console you already have (or maybe even the PC) is a far more palatable thing than a whole new one or two game console for a lot of people.

I would agree that Nintendo could do without Android, would like to see it though.

Edit. On the hacking discussion that happened in the meantime. Time was the xbox was a genuinely lovely media player and emulation machine (the wii slightly less so but it was cheap so hey), the GBA and DS were genuinely some of the best handheld devices on the market. To a raspberry pi blows the first lot out of the water and every TV for years has had VGA and/or HDMI just like my graphics card, back when getting stuff onto your TV was really hard. Not to mention the status of TV and film these days for the masses -- I have not watched TV properly for about 13 years at this point and nowadays with the streaming services there are many less technically inclined than I which do not do over the air/be here at this time to watch TV.
I like hacking things for the sake of hacking things but the incentive that you will end


----------



## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 26, 2016)

Consoles don't have to compete against PCs in terms of power, as consoles are meant to have an expected lifetime, on which their hardware remains static thus making developers try to push that hardware to it's limits instead of asking consumers to buy a new graphics card.

I don't see gaming consoles, neither home nor handheld, going out anytime soon, and I hope it stays that way

And ugh, no. No Android. Do we seriously want the company wasting more money than it's worth optimizing games for a bunch of phones? No thanks. Keep smartphones playing games made for smartphones


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> 2. I suppose not, however it is hardly the same and thus you have to put effort into porting from PC or PSbone/PS360 which is never good when you are the underdog.
> 3. Damned if you do, damned if you don't huh. As much as I would like online to go away then should I be in Nintendo's position I would be damned if I won't. Also I was not kidding when I said I have made and deployed stuff better than Nintendo has there, I don't know what a team of me (or someone better than me as this web lark is not my idea of a good time) costs but it is probably in the realm of rounding error for a company like Nintendo. I know you will have the legacy and embedded nonsense to deal with and the lack of flexibility that comes with being a big company but we have seen ideas that I would have dismissed as conception go live so eh.
> 4. Indy is nice. However when we have the likes of Square working with Tri-Ace, EA and Ubisoft doing what they do, Sony and MS playing it how they play it. Equally several of those offer nice things like mocap, servers worth speaking of, orchestras and all that where Nintendo seem to be funding, a basic toolkit (if what is said and the leaked things are anything to go by) and the notion of it being an honour to work with them.
> 5. Probably best to unpack things then.
> ...


I would like to point out that most games published by nintendo arent actually developed by Nintendo EAD (intelligent systems, game freak and retro just to name a few.) So that point doesnt really stand. I can understand why Nintendo doesnt publish all that many games from outside devs seeing as how it shoots many publishers in the foot (devild third anyone? or JC3?) I think nintendo are pushing into a new direction since them beginning work with DeNA, time will tell.
Edit: I should point out ARM is supported by nearly every graphics engine on the market.  ARM is Nintendo's saviour imo.
Edit2: As to why, you can read it up here, https://gbatemp.net/entry/nx-amd-vs-nvidia-why-nvidia-makes-sense-some-other-speculation-pt-1.11506/
Im planning on making a second part sooner or later going into why I think its modular.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

FrozenDragon150 said:


> Consoles don't have to compete against PCs in terms of power, as consoles are meant to have an expected lifetime, on which their hardware remains static thus making developers try to push that hardware to it's limits instead of asking consumers to buy a new graphics card.
> 
> I don't see gaming consoles, neither home nor handheld, going out anytime soon, and I hope it stays that way
> 
> And ugh, no. No Android. Do we seriously want the company wasting more money than it's worth optimizing games for a bunch of phones? No thanks. Keep smartphones playing games made for smartphones


Lifespans of consoles now are 5-7 years, which is about the same as a PC, only difference is power and form factor.  Now that Nvidia is getting full-powered GPUs into laptops, shit's getting real.  Not to mention other advancements in mobile GPUs.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Lifespans of consoles now are 5-7 years, which is about the same as a PC, only difference is power and form factor.  Now that Nvidia is getting full-powered GPUs into laptops, shit's getting real.  Not to mention other advancements in mobile GPUs.


Exactly why nintendo working with nvidia makes so much sense.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Exactly why nintendo working with nvidia makes so much sense.


It does make perfect business sense to go with Nvidia/Android.  With the UI work Nintendo does, nobody will recognize it as anything other than a Nintendo console anyway.  The online components will be far better than any Nintendo has had before, and it'll be slightly stronger than a WiiU, which is all Nintendo needs to work their magic.  Hopefully it will attract far more indie devs familiar with working on Android/Unity.

Whether the shift pays off or not, only time will tell.  I do think there is a wider audience for Nintendo opening up to other platforms than there is against, however.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 26, 2016)

I am not sure what goes with intelligent systems (some say partnership), Nintendo own a good chunk of gamefreak and the trademarks to pokemon and Retro studios are a first party dev and have been for over a decade. It is too late to go digging through their mergers and acquisitions and tax dodges right now but if those are going to be your examples, and it does cover an awful lot of things associated with Nintendo, then I am going with the point is mine there.
Equally I was not going for them as publisher as much as them letting people play with their toys. It is a risky thing to try but in the cool reasons to work with Nintendo based on things other devs/publishers/IP owners do it is not there.
Maybe times are changing, maybe it is not too little, too late, and maybe it is still more viable for them to go third party.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 26, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> I would like to point out that most games published by nintendo arent actually developed by Nintendo EAD (intelligent systems, game freak and retro just to name a few.) So that point doesnt really stand. I can understand why Nintendo doesnt publish all that many games from outside devs seeing as how it shoots many publishers in the foot (devild third anyone? or JC3?) I think nintendo are pushing into a new direction since them beginning work with DeNA, time will tell.
> Edit: I should point out ARM is supported by nearly every graphics engine on the market.  ARM is Nintendo's saviour imo.
> Edit2: As to why, you can read it up here, https://gbatemp.net/entry/nx-amd-vs-nvidia-why-nvidia-makes-sense-some-other-speculation-pt-1.11506/
> Im planning on making a second part sooner or later going into why I think its modular.


ARM should die out or be relegated to microwaves, washing machines and calculators. It's a low-power architecture that's only useful in mobile computing, and with 1-5 Watt TDP x86 CPU's around it has no reason to be around anymore. Frankly, I'm confused as to why we still use it as the power consumption and thermal design advantages went out the window at this point.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 26, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> ARM should die out or be relegated to microwaves, washing machines and calculators. It's a low-power architecture that's only useful in mobile computing, and with 1 Watt TDP x86 CPU's around it has no reason to be around anymore. Frankly, I'm confused as to why we still use it as the power consumption and thermal design advantages went out the window at this point.


Exactly how? It seems ARM is a much better solution for all machines, even super computers.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FAST6191 said:


> I am not sure what goes with intelligent systems (some say partnership), Nintendo own a good chunk of gamefreak and the trademarks to pokemon and Retro studios are a first party dev and have been for over a decade. It is too late to go digging through their mergers and acquisitions and tax dodges right now but if those are going to be your examples, and it does cover an awful lot of things associated with Nintendo, then I am going with the point is mine there.
> Equally I was not going for them as publisher as much as them letting people play with their toys. It is a risky thing to try but in the cool reasons to work with Nintendo based on things other devs/publishers/IP owners do it is not there.
> Maybe times are changing, maybe it is not too little, too late, and maybe it is still more viable for them to go third party.


Time will tell.


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## Xzi (Aug 26, 2016)

My assumption is the NX would be using a next-gen Tegra processor/GPU.  More than capable of [email protected], and I don't believe that's an ARM architecture but correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: Per Wikipedia, I'm wrong.  It is ARM.  Still performs well on Shield TV.


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## Deleted-379826 (Aug 27, 2016)

All I wanna say is please no android. PLEASE do not force devs to make mobile games!


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> All I wanna say is please no android. PLEASE do not force devs to make mobile games!


Theres zero chance for android, ARM and android are two different things.


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## Xzi (Aug 27, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> All I wanna say is please no android. PLEASE do not force devs to make mobile games!


Well that's the thing, 1080p Nintendo-quality games are way better than mobile-quality BS.  Even if you're on a typically-mobile architecture, you can make a space for any kind of games.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Well that's the thing, 1080p Nintendo-quality games are better than mobile-quality BS.  Even if you're on a typically-mobile architecture, you can make a space for any kind of games.


exactly.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Exactly how? It seems ARM is a much better solution for all machines, even super computers.


ARM uses a reduced instruction set while x86 uses a complex instruction set, ARM loads/saves data via registers while x86 can operate directly on memory, there are many advantages to discuss. I've never heard the notion of ARM being superior for supercomputers, it sounds ridiculous to me, most supercomputers use customised architectures designed for a specific purpose to begin with.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> ARM uses a reduced instruction set while x86 uses a complex instruction set, ARM loads/saves data via registers while x86 can operate directly on memory, there are many advantages to discuss. I've never heard the notion of ARM being superior for supercomputers, it sounds ridiculous to me, most supercomputers use customised architectures designed for a specific purpose to begin with.


ridiculous? I think not, http://www.nextplatform.com/2016/06/23/inside-japans-future-exaflops-arm-supercomputer/


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> ridiculous? I think not, http://www.nextplatform.com/2016/06/23/inside-japans-future-exaflops-arm-supercomputer/


I think so. Plans are all nice and dandy, implementation is a whole other matter. Again, we're talking RISC versus CISC. An x86 CPU is, to put it plainly, capable of executing complex tasks in one instruction that would take several instructions for an ARM CPU to complete. You're looking at a jerk-off metric.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I think so. Plans are all nice and dandy, implementation is a whole other matter. Again, we're talking RISC versus CISC. An x86 CPU is, to put it plainly, capable of executing complex tasks in one instruction that would take several instructions for an ARM CPU to complete. You're looking at a jerk-off metric.


But whats cheaper?


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## GunzOfNavarone (Aug 27, 2016)

Reggie has been full of shit for a long time, I'm surprised that anyone can take anything he says seriously anymore.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> But whats cheaper?


Cheaper doesn't always equate to better.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Cheaper doesn't always equate to better.


well it does when nintendo is making a hybrid.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> All I wanna say is please no android. PLEASE do not force devs to make mobile games!


Why would they be forced to make things like current mobile games? The systems in question can emulate "normal" games which definitely means they can have them coded from the ground up.
The kind of sales we see for DS games, which were presumably profitable else we would not have several thousand of the things, are readily seen in android and co and if they are the new market then presumably people would move to them, if they were not already.

If things were still like j2me compared to the DS then yeah it would be tricky, Android though is a fully fledged platform capable of having complex things coded for it (give or take things which needed the stylus rather than the sausages protruding from my hands I can think of nothing on the 3ds, DS or GBA which could not be made for a phone or tablet), including with all the fancy 3d graphics you might want for many, with a massive install base.

Or if you prefer they said you needed multiplayer to have a best selling game, and then we got Skyrim.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> well it does when nintendo is making a hybrid.


No, it does not. What matters is the performance to dollar ratio. If price was the sole deciding factor, the Wii U would've trumped the PS4 and the Xbox One.

If Nintendo had any sense, they would equip the handheld element with an x5-x7 class customised Intel Atom SoC or an AMD Ax Micro SoC which are both more than sufficient to run PS3/360-like (or better, in fact) games in terms of complexity (unheard of in the portable gaming space) and equip the main console with a robust GPU that the handheld would communicate with over PCIe upon docking (which is plug & play and hot swappable, not that anyone uses that feature anymore. With modern bandwidths and with compression in place, see Nvidia Optimus, all you need is x4 lanes to maintain 100%-90% performance) to run titles at "modern" levels of complexity. Since they're not that smart, we'll just see more bullshit.


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## Xzi (Aug 27, 2016)

Bets on NX using Tegra X2?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Tegra_X2

Not the most powerful option, but certainly capable of [email protected] depending on level of detail.  Do they really need any more than that?  PS4/Xbone just crank up the detail and run at 30FPS.


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## Deleted-379826 (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Why would they be forced to make things like current mobile games? The systems in question can emulate "normal" games which definitely means they can have them coded from the ground up.
> The kind of sales we see for DS games, which were presumably profitable else we would not have several thousand of the things, are readily seen in android and co and if they are the new market then presumably people would move to them, if they were not already.
> 
> If things were still like j2me compared to the DS then yeah it would be tricky, Android though is a fully fledged platform capable of having complex things coded for it (give or take things which needed the stylus rather than the sausages protruding from my hands I can think of nothing on the 3ds, DS or GBA which could not be made for a phone or tablet), including with all the fancy 3d graphics you might want for many, with a massive install base.
> ...


Yeah that is true!


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## Captain_N (Aug 27, 2016)

hey uh how come no one mentioned last week's rumor that was on maxconsole? the name of the console.


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## wuboy (Aug 27, 2016)

Captain_N said:


> hey uh how come no one mentioned last week's rumor that was on maxconsole? the name of the console.


I wouldn't trust a rumor from a website that cites 4Chan as a source.


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## loco365 (Aug 27, 2016)

codezer0 said:


> You mean the one that pissed off everyone simultaneously because nobody was properly prepared for it?


Yup, that one. Pushing back a launch date without telling anyone would screw everyone over that was involved with it.


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## codezer0 (Aug 27, 2016)

Team Fail said:


> Yup, that one. Pushing back a launch date without telling anyone would screw everyone over that was involved with it.


... What?

The Saturn was expected to release in the holiday season that year. That E3 was meant to just announce it. SoJ then had the dumb idea to release it at the same day it was announced. So third parties that were working on games for it were pissed off because they weren't ready. Retailers that weren't in on it were pissed off to the point they refused to carry anything for it. What you _mean_ is that they pushed it forward. Pushing it _back_ implies releasing it later.


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## puss2puss (Aug 27, 2016)

What Fils-Aimé said is absurd.. we all knew what the wiiU was able to do, but did they forget themself? They didnt make enough games that uses all the features of the gamepad and wiimotes..
All they have to do, is more first party game, and more games that uses the console's features, then people wont bitch at all about the console.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> No, it does not. What matters is the performance to dollar ratio. If price was the sole deciding factor, the Wii U would've trumped the PS4 and the Xbox One.
> 
> If Nintendo had any sense, they would equip the handheld element with an x5-x7 class customised Intel Atom SoC or an AMD Ax Micro SoC which are both more than sufficient to run PS3/360-like (or better, in fact) games in terms of complexity (unheard of in the portable gaming space) and equip the main console with a robust GPU that the handheld would communicate with over PCIe upon docking (which is plug & play and hot swappable, not that anyone uses that feature anymore. With modern bandwidths and with compression in place, see Nvidia Optimus, all you need is x4 lanes to maintain 100%-90% performance) to run titles at "modern" levels of complexity. Since they're not that smart, we'll just see more bullshit.



Even though both those chips arent going to ever be used in portables? (mostly intel.) Price vs power, pascal has polaris beat. An X2 ARM chip running pascal architecture beats the x86 Ps4 and XBONE.
Also dont atom and AX need cooling in some way?


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## Viri (Aug 27, 2016)

I must be really tired, but I read the ending source as Reggie having an interview with Reggie him self. Which confused me for a moment, and then made me laugh at the thought of Reggie interviewing him self.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Even though both those chips arent going to ever be used in portables? (mostly intel.) Price vs power, pascal has polaris beat. An X2 ARM chip running pascal architecture beats the x86 Ps4 and XBONE.
> Also dont atom and AX need cooling in some way?


Intel and AMD chips are used in portables all the time. There's dozens of Atom-powered tablets, there are even fully functional micro-PC's the size of USB sticks - look up Compute Sticks. As for AMD, the Micro line exists exclusively for use in tablets. You seem to be a couple years behind on tech, you're perpetuating myths from the 90'ies.

Beats in what? At what clock? With what power consumption? More jerk-off stats with no concrete information about the application.

The Tegra X1 has a TDP of 15W, it's on the verge of necessitating active cooling when going full blast and X2 is unlikely to be any different as the X line is not made for portable applications, it's made for automotive and marine applications, not phones or tablets. Debating its use in a handheld is pointless because you can't feasibly use it in a handheld anyways.

Pascal is a GPU microarchitecture, not a CPU microarchitecture. This has nothing to do with our ARM vs. x86 debate. Naturally a new GPU microarchitecture beats an old one, nobody is surprised.

Intel Atoms and AMD Micros don't need active cooling solutions, no CPU under 15W TDP does. They usually peak at 5W, so little that many models can operate heatsink-less.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Intel and AMD chips are used in portables all the time. There's dozens of Atom-powered tablets, there are even fully functional micro-PC's the size of USB sticks - look up compute sticks. As for AMD, the Micro line exists exclusively for use in tablets. You seem to be a couple years behind on tech, you're perpetuating myths from the 90'ies.
> 
> Beats in what? At what clock? With what power consumption? The Tegra X1 has a TDP of 15W, it's on the verge of necessitating active cooling when going full blast and X2 is unlikely to be any different as the X line is not made for portable applications, it's made for on-board car computers and marine computers, not phones or tablets.
> 
> ...



When i say portables i mean gaming portables. With the latest nvidia tegra news, (22nd august) they had said that there would be some gaming aspect with the next tegra chips.
A real world bench mark test: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Nvidia-Tegra-4-vs-Intel-Atom-Z3740


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> When i say portables i mean gaming portables. With the latest nvidia tegra news, (22nd august) they had said that there would be some gaming aspect with the next tegra chips.


See my edit, you're several years out of date with x86 design and unfamiliar with thermal or power design.

The architecture wasn't used previously because it wasn't feasible - now it is. The X1, or the X2 for that matter, physically cannot be used in a portable, not at their present specs. The power consumption would kill the system and the heat would make it unpleasant to use.

Here's some boring math:

Heat aside, let's pretend that holding a +/- 40C portable is fine and focus on power alone. At 10W (assuming the SoC isn't running at full blast all the time), the CPU consumes around 9A. _I_(A)=_P_(W)/_V_(V), so:

9.09A=10W (average power consumption)/1.1V (operating voltage)

That'd make a 3.3V 2000mAh battery flat in under an hour, provided voltage regulation was 100% efficient, which is physically impossible. It's a 3.3V battery, so we need a voltage regulator to drop it to 1.1V:

3.3V/1.1V=3

So we increase the theoretical capacity by a factor of 3, thus:

(2Ah*3)/9.09A=0.66h

...and that's just the CPU, no screen or anything. It's not feasible unless you want the handheld to either cook or drop dead after 30 minutes of use.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> See my edit, you're several years out of date with x86 design and unfamiliar with thermal or power design.
> 
> The architecture wasn't used previously because it wasn't feasible - now it is. The X1, or the X2 for that matter, physically cannot be used in a portable, not at their present specs. The power consumption would kill the system and the heat would make it unpleasant to use.
> 
> ...


Did you literally forget the google pixel c?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Did you literally forget the google pixel c?


The Pixel C is not a portable console, it's a huge 10-inch tablet with plenty of space for a big battery and heat dissipation, stop moving goalposts. Either we're talking portable consoles or tablets, either it's supposed to fit in your pocket (hybrid) or it's the size of a small laptop.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> The Pixel C is not a portable console, it's a huge 10-inch tablet with plenty of space for a big battery and heat dissipation, stop moving goalposts. Either we're talking portable consoles or tablets, either it's supposed to fit in your pocket (hybrid) or it's the size of a small laptop.


The circuitry (for the x1 chip, cooling etc.) for the google pixel C could easily fit in a handheld (only taking up about 25% of the space)


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> The circuitry (for the x1 chip, cooling etc.) for the google pixel C could easily fit in a handheld (only taking up about 25% of the space)


The battery required to keep it alive won't, that's what I've been explaining to you. The Pixel C uses a 9243 mAh battery, you're not going to find that in a portable - think 1200-2000 mAh.


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## Luckkill4u (Aug 27, 2016)

NX = new Pixel C? Tablets usually run from 7"-12" so it may be on the big side but it's still considered portable. Personally I don't think Nintendo could do the Tablet industry.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> The battery required to keep it alive won't, that's what I've been explaining to you. The Pixel C uses a 9243 mAh battery, you're not going to find that in a portable - think 1200-2000 mAh.


Whats your definition of portable? Im not saying a console the size of a 3ds but slightly larger than a 3ds xl. Im pretty sure a console slightly larger than a 3ds xl can store a 4000/5000 mah battery


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Whats your definition of portable? Im not saying a console the size of a 3ds but slightly larger than a 3ds xl. Im pretty sure a console slightly larger than a 3ds xl can store a 4000/5000 mah battery


My definition of "portable/handheld gaming system" is a console I can put in my pocket. Anything short of that is "mobile", fair enough, but rather cumbersome in terms of "portability". If I need a bag to make the system portable, it's not very portable.

Have you ever seen a 5000 mAh battery? The one in the Pixel C is about as big as the whole bloody tablet, see Step 13:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Google+Pixel+C+Teardown/62277

...so think about half that size, meaning one out of the two Li-ion cells in the picture. Nah.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that it's not feasible. You don't use a CPU that needs 10-15W to operate in a device that's supposed to fit in your pocket and preferably work for around 3 hours.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> My definition of "portable/handheld gaming system" is a console I can put in my pocket. Anything short of that is "mobile", fair enough, but rather cumbersome in terms of "portability". If I need a bag to make the system portable, it's not very portable.
> 
> Have you ever seen a 5000 mAh battery? The one in the Pixel C is about as big as the whole bloody tablet, see Step 13:
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure 5000 mah batteries can be smaller than that.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> I'm pretty sure 5000 mah batteries can be smaller than that.


You seem to be sure of many things, but you're not showing any. You could make it "smaller" length-wise and width-wise if it was thicker, sure, but the volume would be ultimately the same. There's a reason why there are no X1 phones and why it was only used in a home console, a TV and a tablet.

15W maximum TDP is not something to shoot for when you're making a device that, by design, is supposed to run at full blast at all times. The Pixel C reaches average battery life times because it's idling half the time - a console isn't. Gaming pushes the hardware to the limit at all times, browsing the web or looking at pictures does not.


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## loco365 (Aug 27, 2016)

codezer0 said:


> ... What?
> 
> The Saturn was expected to release in the holiday season that year. That E3 was meant to just announce it. SoJ then had the dumb idea to release it at the same day it was announced. So third parties that were working on games for it were pissed off because they weren't ready. Retailers that weren't in on it were pissed off to the point they refused to carry anything for it. What you _mean_ is that they pushed it forward. Pushing it _back_ implies releasing it later.


Yeah, I used the wrong word. But yeah, in pushing it forward they basically screwed themselves. Hopefully Nintendo won't do the same kind of thing in their promotion of the product.


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## Selver (Aug 27, 2016)

codezer0 said:


> But I doubt anything will ever top the Dreamcast launch in the US.



There was the Microsoft Kin Phone...  Less than two months on sale at Verizon, downgraded to feature phone in less than a year, and totally dead in 18 months.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 27, 2016)

Selver said:


> There was the Microsoft Kin Phone...  Less than two months on sale at Verizon, downgraded to feature phone in less than a year, and totally dead in 18 months.


I just looked it up, and the KIN One looks like a fucked up BlackBerry phone when it has the keyboard out.


----------



## Selver (Aug 27, 2016)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I just looked it up....


The commercials for the KIN... a guy literally seems to take a photo up his shirt:


At least, I hope it was a guy.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 27, 2016)

how about you actually reveal the fucking thing reggie?!


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 27, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Remember when they said they won't make the same mistake with the Wii U as they did the Wii and would focus on
> "hardcore" gamers and 3rd party support?
> Yeah, that was cute.


Well before EA blackballed them, they were trying to do that.  Of course not all the blame lies with EA (Nintendo's shit advertising is a prime example), but they were planning a lot of hardcore games.  They put all their chips on EA, and lost.  EA even refused to release a *nearly completed* version of Crysis 3 on the Wii U.  Can you say "vindictive"?



KiiWii said:


> I hope it's called the NX after all this time...


My money is on the "Wii U They"


----------



## DarkAce0 (Aug 27, 2016)

Need to see it to believe it.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 27, 2016)

NINTENDO FINALLY LISTENED TO US!!!!!!!!!1111122


----------



## Chris313 (Aug 27, 2016)

I hope the nx is better than the wii u sure the wii u had good games I would buy it but i didnt like the controler (the gamepad)at all I hope the nx is much better than the wii u in every way since Reggie said it would I hope it will


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 27, 2016)

Chris313 said:


> I hope the nx is better than the wii u sure the wii u had good games I would buy it but i didnt like the controler (the gamepad)at all I hope the nx is much better than the wii u in every way since Reggie said it would I hope it will


I couldn't decide on a meme, so I'm posting both of them:


----------



## Chris313 (Aug 27, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> I couldn't decide between a meme, so I'm posting both of them:


Ok lol nice meme btw


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> You seem to be sure of many things, but you're not showing any. You could make it "smaller" length-wise and width-wise if it was thicker, sure, but the volume would be ultimately the same. There's a reason why there are no X1 phones and why it was only used in a home console, a TV and a tablet.
> 
> 15W maximum TDP is not something to shoot for when you're making a device that, by design, is supposed to run at full blast at all times. The Pixel C reaches average battery life times because it's idling half the time - a console isn't. Gaming pushes the hardware to the limit at all times, browsing the web or looking at pictures does not.


Thats the thing though, the portable wont be aiming for HD but half that (540p) and around 30-60fps. So no it wont be going at max unless docked.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Thats the thing though, the portable wont be aiming for HD but half that (540p) and around 30-60fps. So no it wont be going at max unless docked.


It's possible, but not really feasible if they want to compete with the PS4/Xbox One in specs. It's just an opinion of mine, but a switch to x86 would really help and with today's tech in mind, it's entirely doable. Just the sheer amount of legacy apps and all the infrastructure available on PC would open its doors to Nintendo. Take in mind that both consoles of their competition are using x86 processors this generation - conforming to their standard would cut down on optimisation times significantly, even if the system was weaker in portable mode. AMD's also working on an x86 and ARM hybrid which would be perfect here, and they've previously stated that they're working on a custom APU "for a gaming console". The NX, if it will truly be a hybrid, introduces a brand-new and exciting form factor for a console, one that I personally had on my mind for a while now, so I hope they squeeze out all the power they possibly can from both docked and undocked modes. To be fair, I'm biased when it comes to x86, it's my preferred platform, and I can absolutely see your point when it comes to ARM, but at the end of the day it's the GPU that matters most in gaming and here we agree - Nvidia would be a great choice as their mobile GPU's are top of the line. Either way, I'll be happy as long as it's not another PPC 7xx that's outdated by a decade at this point.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 27, 2016)

HamodeBu50 said:


> NINTENDO FINALLY LISTENED TO US!!!!!!!!!1111122


by making a handheld with detachable controllers? they didn't listen to fuck all.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> It's possible, but not really feasible if they want to compete with the PS4/Xbox One in specs. It's just an opinion of mine, but a switch to x86 would really help and with today's tech in mind, it's entirely doable. Just the sheer amount of legacy apps and all the infrastructure available on PC would open its doors to Nintendo. Take in mind that both consoles of their competition are using x86 processors this generation - conforming to their standard would cut down on optimisation times significantly, even if the system was weaker in portable mode. AMD's also working on an x86 and ARM hybrid which would be perfect here, and they've previously stated that they're working on a custom APU "for a gaming console". The NX, if it will truly be a hybrid, introduces a brand-new and exciting form factor for a console, one that I personally had on my mind for a while now, so I hope they squeeze out all the power they possibly can from both docked and undocked modes. To be fair, I'm biased when it comes to x86, it's my preferred platform, and I can absolutely see your point when it comes to ARM, but at the end of the day it's the GPU that matters most in gaming and here we agree - Nvidia would be a great choice as their mobile GPU's are top of the line. Either way, I'll be happy as long as it's not another PPC 7xx that's outdated by a decade at this point.


I absolutely agree. I was thinking that they'd also introduce a home console down the line for additional power (working like an egpu.) IMO that makes most sense to me.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Bladexdsl said:


> by making a handheld with detachable controllers? they didn't listen to fuck all.


The detachable controllers make it more portable.


----------



## Windowlicker (Aug 27, 2016)

I have a good feeling about the NX besides being a totally pessimistic person(too apparent, really). I think it will do much better than the Wii U, but it would never reach Wii numbers. I can't explain that optimistic feeling, to be honest. However, I am still worried that it will be way too underpowered knowing post-gamecube era Nintendo too well. Something must be done about that.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Elysium420 said:


> I have a good feeling about the NX besides being a totally pessimistic person(too apparent, really). I think it will do much better than the Wii U, but it would never reach Wii numbers. I can't explain that optimistic feeling, to be honest. However, I am still worried that it will be way too underpowered knowing post-gamecube era Nintendo too well. Something must be done about that.


IDK the concept makes power a lot less of an issue.


----------



## Windowlicker (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> IDK the concept makes power a lot less of an issue.


Look, I may not be a sucker for graphics but knowing the insatiable gaming community, specs that amaze are always needed for good sales. The Wii however, somehow beat that ''rule'' to the ground. Maybe Nintendo needs to bring its old demographic back. Maybe.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Elysium420 said:


> Look, I may nt be a sucker for graphics but knowing the unsatiable gaming community, specs that amaze are always needed for good sales. The Wii however, somehow beat that ''rule'' to the ground. Maybe Nintendo needs to bring its old demographic back. Maybe.


time will tell.


----------



## Jacklack3 (Aug 27, 2016)

I think it's better to have the console different.

You guys would complain if it was like a normal console.

"Oh! Everything is so boring! Nintendo isn't like this!"

This isn't 1985 where consoles are the same, this is 2016 where consoles should be unique.

It's like WarioWare, every game brings something new to the table.

I think the design is great and seems amazing, you can basically play anywhere and when you get home you will have a even more fun experience.

Also am I the only one who thought the Wii and Wii U were awesome?

No just me? Okay.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Jacklack3 said:


> I think it's better to have the console different.
> 
> You guys would complain if it was like a normal console.
> 
> ...


yep.... The wii u was nice, not the wii.


----------



## Deleted member 370671 (Aug 27, 2016)

Jacklack3 said:


> I think it's better to have the console different.
> 
> You guys would complain if it was like a normal console.
> 
> ...


I agree with that. The XBOne / PS4 are basically underpowered PCs, and there's practically no reason to buy them if you have a computer.



Jacklack3 said:


> I think the design is great and seems amazing, you can basically play anywhere and when you get home you will have a even more fun experience.


Yes, I also think the design looks great, but I don't think the console should be more fun when you're at home. The experience should be different, yes, but not more or less fun. If one "mode" is better than the other, then there's not any point in making a hybrid device.



Jacklack3 said:


> Also am I the only one who thought the Wii and Wii U were awesome?


tbh I really like the Wii U, but not really the Wii. Probably because of the controller though (I don't like the Wiimote  )


----------



## Jacklack3 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> Yes, I also think the design looks great, but I don't think the console should be more fun when you're at home. The experience should be different, yes, but not more or less fun. If one "mode" is better than the other, then there's not any point in making a hybrid device.


I guess that's true. I guess i meant that the experience would be different. It would be a bad choice to create something that's more fun than something that is the same thing.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> I agree with that. The XBOne / PS4 are basically underpowered PCs, and there's practically no reason to buy them if you have a computer.


I hate when people say that, neither is anything like a PC. It's just like saying that an Xbox 360 is basically a Mac since it runs on a PPC CPU. Both the PS4 and the Xbox One use custom chips, they're no different than any other console. Consoles exist in the same pool of technology as other computers, everything is derivative of something else.


----------



## omgpwn666 (Aug 27, 2016)

Watch the name be New Wii U.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> I agree with that. The XBOne / PS4 are basically underpowered PCs, and there's practically no reason to buy them if you have a computer.
> 
> 
> Yes, I also think the design looks great, but I don't think the console should be more fun when you're at home. The experience should be different, yes, but not more or less fun. If one "mode" is better than the other, then there's not any point in making a hybrid device.
> ...


Im definite that there will be a home console.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgpwn666 said:


> Watch the name be New Wii U.


even though they said its not a syccesor?


----------



## Deleted member 370671 (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I hate when people say that, neither is anything like a PC. It's just like saying that an Xbox 360 is basically a Mac since it runs on a PPC CPU. Both the PS4 and the Xbox One use custom chips, they're no different than any other console. Consoles exist in the same pool of technology as other computers, everything is derivative of something else.


I wasn't talking about the internals, but about the experience. Yes, of course they use custom chips and are different from PCs in many ways, but in terms of games, most of them (well, I admit there are a few good exclusives on PS4) are available on PC. I don't think anyone bought the XBOne simply because it uses an AMD CPU, but rather to play games that are interesting, the same way people buy (or don't buy) a Wii U because of its games, and in particular exclusives.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> I wasn't talking about the internals, but about the experience. Yes, of course they use custom chips and are different from PCs in many ways, but in terms of games, most of them (well, I admit there are a few good exclusives on PS4) are available on PC. I don't think anyone bought the XBOne simply because it uses an AMD CPU, but rather to play games that are interesting, the same way people buy (or don't buy) a Wii U because of its games, and in particular exclusives.


Thanks for the elaboration.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> I wasn't talking about the internals, but about the experience. Yes, of course they use custom chips and are different from PCs in many ways, but in terms of games, most of them (well, I admit there are a few good exclusives on PS4) are available on PC. I don't think anyone bought the XBOne simply because it uses an AMD CPU, but rather to play games that are interesting, the same way people buy (or don't buy) a Wii U because of its games, and in particular exclusives.


I certainly didn't buy my PS4 to play Sony exclusives - I bought it to play games, period. We're in a gaming community, we're all fanatics of gaming, so it's often hard for us to disassociate, but the fact is that the average customer isn't like us in any way - the average customer owns one gaming platform. There's this prevalent idea that people own multiple systems or that they own consoles in addition to gaming PC's - they don't. Most people own shitty laptops that are mostly used for browsing Facebook and can support League and Runescape at best, they're not going to run multiplats at 1080p, 60FPS like everyone seems to think. What good is a Wii U if I can't get my GTA's on it? Exclusives are nice additional benefits, they can sway you one way or the other, but the primary concern is overwhelming support of the industry, which the Wii U doesn't have while the PS4 and the Xbox One do. You can have a million Smashes or Mario Karts, but without the bread and butter of multiplats you are nothing. The fact that the PS4's and the Xbox One's libraries are mostly multiplats is not a detriment, it's one of their biggest strengths - they provide a comprehensive gaming experience throughout the generation and the Wii U does not, which is why it failed miserably, so let's take a step back, forget the exclusives for one second and just have a competently made piece of hardware for God's sake. Going all exotic with the hardware is stupid - you're killing industry support and that's a guarantee that your customers will miss out on all the popular blockbuster titles, which creates resentment towards your brand.


----------



## Gaming796 (Aug 27, 2016)

MisterPantsEyes said:


> WHOA HAPPENING! REGGIE = GOD
> 
> NINTENDO IS SAVED GUYS


Yeah.


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 27, 2016)

I actually really liked the Wii. Still do, but I lost my games for it


----------



## Viri (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> I agree with that. The XBOne / PS4 are basically underpowered PCs, and there's practically no reason to buy them if you have a computer.


NOT UH! the Xbone has kinect, you can talk to your Xbone to tell it to turn on, and you can watch tv with it!

TV!

Oh, and you can fap while the NSA watches you, isn't that the hottest thing ever? You'll never feel alone!


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

Jacklack3 said:


> This isn't 1985 where consoles are the same, this is 2016 where consoles should be unique.



Why do I want unique consoles rather than a DVD player what also does games.

Equally I fear you might benefit from reading up on the hardware specs of the consoles from the times mentioned. There were real differences for all consoles up until around the PS360 (one was a powerpc with directX9 grade graphics and the other was a slightly different but broadly similar powerpc with directX9 grade graphics), and definitely back in the 80s -- SNES, Amiga and megadrive was pretty radically different in CPU, graphics, cart design, sound chips and more besides, NES and master system/commodore64/TG16.... and it only gets worse.


----------



## EstPC13 (Aug 27, 2016)

I believe Nintendo should repeat and improve the GC Strategy:

1. Make a console with amazing graphics power, or one that can be compared to the rest (I don't really care abotut the graphics but 3rd parties do, and Nintendo is literally swimming in cash).
2. Give it a nice design, and a great controller (Lay off the gimmicks for at least this gen, then come back next gen with one, beacuse it's The Big N).
3. Market the hell out of it and it's games.
4. DON'T give the fanbase exactly what they want, that never works out, give it something different, which you're already doing, because Nintendo)


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 27, 2016)

1-3 they won't


----------



## Youkai (Aug 27, 2016)

Lol so funny that they think they need to tell us how great their console is and that they think the Wii U only sucked because they didn't tell us about its awesomeness and all of us were just to stupid to see it on our own.
Man I really hate that guy XD

But than again now after all those "bad" speculations about the NX it can only be better than what I imagine IF they actually manage to make it even worse than my imagination after some of the bad speculations than I guess Nintendo should stop making consoles ... but maybe it will be good ^^V


----------



## EstPC13 (Aug 27, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> 1-3 they won't


I know, I just want them to succeed so badly...


----------



## Jacklack3 (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Why do I want unique consoles rather than a DVD player what also does games.
> 
> Equally I fear you might benefit from reading up on the hardware specs of the consoles from the times mentioned. There were real differences for all consoles up until around the PS360 (one was a powerpc with directX9 grade graphics and the other was a slightly different but broadly similar powerpc with directX9 grade graphics), and definitely back in the 80s -- SNES, Amiga and megadrive was pretty radically different in CPU, graphics, cart design, sound chips and more besides, NES and master system/commodore64/TG16.... and it only gets worse.


When I meant they are the same, i mean't the same mechanic.

Now Nintendo is trying to bring new mechanics to the table, like have a touch screen on a controller which makes it so the Video Game industry isn't repetitive.


----------



## Master Mo (Aug 27, 2016)

Voxel said:


> ..., and we continue to believe that the innovation of the second screen was a worthwhile concept...



Are you sure Reggie?! Because Zelda BotW says otherwise!

I still cannot believe that game doesn`t have gamepad-features! The fact that they don`t have a gamepad integration in the new Zelda is probably the thing I am most disappointed off with Nintendo in a very long time... 

He is right though but I think tha`t was not hard to figure out considering I was also very confused with the WiiU when it was first unveiled and I always have followed games media extensively!


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

Jacklack3 said:


> When I meant they are the same, i mean't the same mechanic.
> 
> Now Nintendo is trying to bring new mechanics to the table, like have a touch screen on a controller which makes it so the Video Game industry isn't repetitive.



I am not convinced unique is a substitute for good; people seem to cling to the word for reasons I am never sure of. That said even if it is the case then why do they need their own console? Controllers have had reasonably high bandwidth USB or common enough protocol wireless for years now.

Equally I am not sure I want to put the burden of innovation at Nintendo's feet, or diss the others and say they don't try.

On second screens. As a gameplay concept it had loads of potential -- hidden/incomplete information is a fundamental concept in game theory and thus game design, LAN and online play banks on it, even the humble link cable plays to it, how many board games/card games use it... it just seemed to woefully under used/explored. On the DS it, though less as hidden information, had loads of use but on high resolution screens I am less convinced, though the touch aspect is nice for a bunch of things.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> I am not convinced unique is a substitute for good; people seem to cling to the word for reasons I am never sure of. That said even if it is the case then why do they need their own console? Controllers have had reasonably high bandwidth USB or common enough protocol wireless for years now.
> 
> Equally I am not sure I want to put the burden of innovation at Nintendo's feet, or diss the others and say they don't try.
> 
> On second screens. As a gameplay concept it had loads of potential -- hidden/incomplete information is a fundamental concept in game theory and thus game design, LAN and online play banks on it, even the humble link cable plays to it, how many board games/card games use it... it just seemed to woefully under used/explored. On the DS it, though less as hidden information, had loads of use but on high resolution screens I am less convinced, though the touch aspect is nice for a bunch of things.


I think the NX will really make use of that hidden potential.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Master Mo said:


> Are you sure Reggie?! Because Zelda BotW says otherwise!
> 
> I still cannot believe that game doesn`t have gamepad-features! The fact that they don`t have a gamepad integration in the new Zelda is probably the thing I am most disappointed off with Nintendo in a very long time...
> 
> He is right though but I think tha`t was not hard to figure out considering I was also very confused with the WiiU when it was first unveiled and I always have followed games media extensively!



The gampad features probably didnt show up as they hadnt completed them yet, seeing as how they had massive issues with the physics engine, im not surprised that what we got in the demo was an empty world with nothing in it (i bet they'd let us explore if they actually completed anything)


----------



## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 27, 2016)

Just saying, thks article is but a skimmed down version of this one.

http://nintendoeverything.com/reggi...-nx-mobile-merchandise-universal-partnership/

I'm pretty sure everyone has read the first one, but read this one too as it contains more info on the whole review.


----------



## mechagouki (Aug 27, 2016)

TheKawaiiDesu said:


> I wasn't talking about the internals, but about the experience. Yes, of course they use custom chips and are different from PCs in many ways, but in terms of games, most of them (well, I admit there are a few good exclusives on PS4) are available on PC. I don't think anyone bought the XBOne simply because it uses an AMD CPU, but rather to play games that are interesting, the same way people buy (or don't buy) a Wii U because of its games, and in particular exclusives.



See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles. 

Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive IPs, Nintendo certainly isn't unique on that front, in fact I suspect part of Nintendo's problem is that it continues to regurgitate the same old games it's been making since the mid 1980s and using quirky hardware to try and refresh the experience. Sometimes they pull it off, but the whole Nintendo universe is still starting to feel a little tired. 

I feel they might do better with a comparably powered current-gen console and some investment in finding a Halo/Uncharted quality killer app. There's actually tons of console exclusive games on the Wii U, it's just most of them aren't very good. Nostalgia will only carry you so far.

As for Reggie, clock's ticking I fear.


----------



## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 27, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.
> 
> Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive IPs, *Nintendo certainly isn't unique on that front, in fact I suspect part of Nintendo's problem is that it continues to regurgitate the same old games it's been making since the mid 1980s and using quirky hardware to try and refresh the experience. Sometimes they pull it off, but the whole Nintendo universe is still starting to feel a little tired. *
> 
> ...


Wrong in all accounts.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.
> 
> Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive IPs, Nintendo certainly isn't unique on that front, in fact I suspect part of Nintendo's problem is that it continues to regurgitate the same old games it's been making since the mid 1980s and using quirky hardware to try and refresh the experience. Sometimes they pull it off, but the whole Nintendo universe is still starting to feel a little tired.
> 
> ...


They havent been regurgitating games most of their exclusives have been new in some way, name me one thats literally the same game (even nsmbu has some interesting new features)


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.



I remember speccing a roughly equivalent to the PS4 system back just before its release. Was just about doable as an alternative to the console (definitely if you went for two controllers and stuck a year's online subscription on there). You consider that if you need a PC then the 200 you spend on that plus another 400 instead of the console and it was easy. That was however many years ago too, right now it is not even close. 

Time was the whole loss leader or radically different specs thing made a difference but these days it is not so bad.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

IDK why people are saying NX will be weak because it runs ARM and has a mobile chip, did everyone forget the supplementary computing drive patent? This console is modular, it's not what consoles are like now, it'll get continuos hardware revisions that wont encroach on older hardware since the hardware revisions are just upgraded pieces of the older hardware which itself can be upgraded by adding an additional piece of hardware.


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 27, 2016)

Lets just hope the NX will be hackable...
no, lets hope it wont get DELAYED LIKE ZELDA U/NX


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Why do I want unique consoles rather than a DVD player what also does games.
> 
> Equally I fear you might benefit from reading up on the hardware specs of the consoles from the times mentioned. There were real differences for all consoles up until around the PS360 (one was a powerpc with directX9 grade graphics and the other was a slightly different but broadly similar powerpc with directX9 grade graphics), and definitely back in the 80s -- SNES, Amiga and megadrive was pretty radically different in CPU, graphics, cart design, sound chips and more besides, NES and master system/commodore64/TG16.... and it only gets worse.


FAST, what you're saying is demonstrably false. The NES uses a modified MOS 6502 (Ricoh 2A03), it's in the same family of hardware as the Commodore 64 (MOS 6510) or Atari 8-bit computers (MOS 6502B/C "Sally"). Similarly the SNES uses a Ricoh 5A22, which is a modified WDC 65C816, the CPU used in the Apple IIGS line of computers, which in itself is a modified MOS 6502. Things are even more straightforward with the Master System which uses a Zilog Z80 used in the ZX Spectrum or the Game Boy and the Mega Drive which uses a Motorola 68000 as the primary CPU, which can also be found in the Commodore Amiga, the Apple Mac, the Neo Geo or the Atari ST, and the previously mentioned Zilog Z80 as a secondary CPU, both of which are used across a variety of electronic devices. If your argument here is that they were used somewhat creatively to squeeze every ounce of processing power then that's true today as well, if what you're saying is that they were heavily customised systems then again, this is also still the case. The only thing you could say is than none really followed any particular standard of what a gaming machine should do, but only by the virtue of the fact that no such standards existed. The PC was still a long way ahead of us and various different computers were available on the market instead - consoles used the same hardware as those computers. Regarding "DirectX 9", again, no such standards existed, really - "libraries", "engines" or "hardware acceleration" were distant dreams as most code was written as platform-specific. All of the systems you mention are derivative of pre-existing computers and processors, they're just redesigned to be fit for purpose, as are modern consoles, the difference being that today we're not walking blind in the darkness nearly as often.


----------



## mechagouki (Aug 27, 2016)

FrozenDragon150 said:


> Wrong in all accounts.


Well that's a considered and well argued rebuttal. (hint: sarcasm)




TheDarkGreninja said:


> They havent been regurgitating games most of their exclusives have been new in some way, name me one thats literally the same game (even nsmbu has some interesting new features)



"Regurgitating" does not imply the same product re-released (though Nintendo have definitely been doing that going all the way back to Super Mario All-Stars), when you regurgitate food, it doesn't quite look the same does it? But it is essentially the same with just a little new material added (gag).

Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D World are two that immediately spring to mind. I'm not some anti-Nintendo person, I bought NES, Gameboy, SNES, GBC, N64 at launch, I bought SMB 2 and 3 day of release. Yoshi's island, Link to the Past, Super Metroid and ocarina are all comfortably in my top 10 ever. Gamecube had some great games, but though I own a Wii, it's never really been my go to console. Never bought a Wii U, and you know what, that doesn't put me in a minority, there's various reasons behind Wii U's poor sales, and a lacklustre games library is a big one.

I'd take a good look at the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_U_video_games

i see one new IP in that list (Splatoon - or "the bastard child of Team Fortress and Super Mario Sunshine" as I like to think of it), everything else is derivative or sequel.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Well that's a considered and well argued rebuttal. (hint: sarcasm)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What are you meant to expect? Name me another company that makes multiple new ip's. Somewhat ignorant imo. Now, if a game makes money company will make a sequel is that too hard to understand? Nintendo and basically every dev on earth makes a few unique ip's and sticks with them.


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## EmulateLife (Aug 27, 2016)

Wii believe it or not was Nintendo's most successful home console ever in both console sales and game sales while Wii U had the lowest sales in both. So from best to worst I have a feeling though if NX is a hybrid home console/handheld it will do well because of how successful their handhelds are, and companies like Take Two are already coming out voicing their support for it. Only time will tell.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

Yeah probably should have paused before adding the non sega-nintendo stuff. I am not sure I would make the NES to Apple IIGS to SNES leap either, or at least not any more than an i7 resembles a 386 (well maybe p4 to 386). Similarly while I can't disagree on the ST thing that is reaching a bit -- you say Atari platform (as opposed to dev/publisher) and nobody thinks ST; that was their throwing stuff at the wall stage. It might be possible to say we are both a bit CPU centric as well, whenever I learn one of these older consoles then even if it is a new CPU it is more the architecture and sound chips and such that gets the real time spent on it -- when it comes to in hardware sprite bothering the 6502 stuff is often not even close to each other. CPU wise in some ways it is a bit like saying one thing is derivative of the other because they both use an atmel microcontroller today, especially if you want to compare the amiga architecture to other things.

On standards then yeah, though I might argue arcades provided a standard of sorts for gaming, though perhaps considerably more aspirational than a derivation like today. That or I do not notice PC ports being superior as much as I did back when.

Hardware used creatively. For as much as I like to diss game devs from me there is no argument that there are some seriously talented people playing in that world, however everything I have seen is more twisting towards something (oh this has fast GPU bandwidth so, while this has crazy shader performance so in optimisation) than hardware and backwards from there to get the game (you don't get mode7 on a megadrive sort of thing).

On directX9 then the common was more for the PS36- stuff and the chips involved were those seen in some of the last DX9 graphics cards so while I agree it is not much of a standard in the strictest sense it did provide a useful enough baseline and explains some of the things we saw on PC -- I am not inclined to put the failure to catch on of directx 10 solely at the feet of Vista.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Yeah probably should have paused before adding the non sega-nintendo stuff. I am not sure I would make the NES to Apple IIGS to SNES leap either, or at least not any more than an i7 resembles a 386 (well maybe p4 to 386). Similarly while I can't disagree on the ST thing that is reaching a bit -- you say Atari platform (as opposed to dev/publisher) and nobody thinks ST; that was their throwing stuff at the wall stage. It might be possible to say we are both a bit CPU centric as well, whenever I learn one of these older consoles then even if it is a new CPU it is more the architecture and sound chips and such that gets the real time spent on it -- when it comes to in hardware sprite bothering the 6502 stuff is often not even close to each other. CPU wise in some ways it is a bit like saying one thing is derivative of the other because they both use an atmel microcontroller today, especially if you want to compare the amiga architecture to other things.
> 
> On standards then yeah, though I might argue arcades provided a standard of sorts for gaming, though perhaps considerably more aspirational than a derivation like today. That or I do not notice PC ports being superior as much as I did back when.
> 
> ...


Who are you replying to? this seems quite out of the blue.


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## Deleted member 370671 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Who are you replying to? this seems quite out of the blue.


Probably to Foxi4:


Foxi4 said:


> FAST, what you're saying is demonstrably false. The NES uses a modified MOS 6502 (Ricoh 2A03), it's in the same family of hardware as the Commodore 64 (MOS 6510) or Atari 8-bit computers (MOS 6502B/C "Sally"). Similarly the SNES uses a Ricoh 5A22, which is a modified WDC 65C816, the CPU used in the Apple IIGS line of computers, which in itself is a modified MOS 6502. Things are even more straightforward with the Master System which uses a Zilog Z80 used in the ZX Spectrum or the Game Boy and the Mega Drive which uses a Motorola 68000 as the primary CPU, which can also be found in the Commodore Amiga, the Apple Mac, the Neo Geo or the Atari ST, and the previously mentioned Zilog Z80 as a secondary CPU, both of which are used across a variety of electronic devices. If your argument here is that they were used somewhat creatively to squeeze every ounce of processing power then that's true today as well, if what you're saying is that they were heavily customised systems then again, this is also still the case. The only thing you could say is than none really followed any particular standard of what a gaming machine should do, but only by the virtue of the fact that no such standards existed. The PC was still a long way ahead of us and various different computers were available on the market instead - consoles used the same hardware as those computers. Regarding "DirectX 9", again, no such standards existed, really - "libraries", "engines" or "hardware acceleration" were distant dreams as most code was written as platform-specific. All of the systems you mention are derivative of pre-existing computers and processors, they're just redesigned to be fit for purpose, as are modern consoles, the difference being that today we're not walking blind in the darkness nearly as often.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4, it is only three posts up when I posted that and was the last post as I got back here to start typing.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Foxi4, it is only three posts up when I posted that and was the last post as I got back here to start typing.


Ah i didnt see his post.


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## mechagouki (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> What are you meant to expect? Name me another company that makes multiple new ip's. Somewhat ignorant imo. Now, if a game makes money company will make a sequel is that too hard to understand? Nintendo and basically every dev on earth makes a few unique ip's and sticks with them.



Well I could ignore your mild ad hominem accusation of ignorance, but as your subtitle suggests you're the latest in a long line of contrary 'Temp trolls, I'll bite. 

I currently own every moderately successful console made in the last 25 years, excluding Wii U and PS4, with extensive game libraries for each, I've been fascinated with video games since I first played a Space Invaders arcade machine in 1978. I played Mario Bros, before they were Super. I've payed attention, before there was an Internet I read C&VG (which I remember as a BASIC listings magazine)EDGE and EGM for the latest information about games on all platforms. I owned one of the first 25 DMG-001 GameBoys in the UK, grey-imported from Japan. I could go on, but my point is, your call of ignorance, based on 2 forum posts, is at best, uninformed.

And Nintendo's biggest problem is that they are one dev with "a few unique ip's" whereas all the other dev's are making their much larger combined collection of IP available on the two consoles that Nintendo don't make. That 3rd party element is vital to a hardware manufacturer's success, but don't take my word for it, do some reading, history will back me up.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

NoSoul81 said:


> Wii believe it or not was Nintendo's most successful home console ever in both console sales and game sales while Wii U had the lowest sales in both. So from best to worst I have a feeling though if NX is a hybrid home console/handheld it will do well because of how successful their handhelds are, and companies like Take Two are already coming out voicing their support for it. Only time will tell.


You have to adjust for the circumstances. The Wii came in a time when everyone was interested in motion controls - it was a brand-new thing in gaming and the Wii was a cheap way to experience it. The same can be said about the DS - it had a touchscreen like a fancy smartphone, but it didn't cost an arm and a leg. When the Wii U came out, the excitement for both technologies weaned - people had tablets, why would they need another tablet that only works within 20 feet of the main unit? The Wii and the DS were happy accidents, their success won't be replicated just by planning, they'd have to pinpoint a new technology that everyone's excited about and provide it at an affordable price. As far as that's concerned, the only thing that comes to mind is VR, but the market is already saturated with VR products, so it'd be a fruitless endeavour. Nintendo shines when they pinpoint something exciting and provide it cheaply - Microsoft spent millions on developing a super-duper camera array coupled with a microphone array and an IR grid, called it a Kinect and failed miserably as by the time they finished developing it, nobody cared since Nintendo just strapped a few gyros onto a remote and fulfilled the customer's curiosity. The inverse applies to the Wii U gamepad - Nintendo created an efficient streaming technology for their gaming "tablet", except everybody and their dog already had one, so nobody cared.


mechagouki said:


> Well I could ignore your mild ad hominem accusation of ignorance, but as your subtitle suggests you're the latest in a long line of contrary 'Temp trolls, I'll bite.
> 
> I currently own every moderately successful console made in the last 25 years, excluding Wii U and PS4, with extensive game libraries for each, I've been fascinated with video games since I first played a Space Invaders arcade machine in 1978. I played Mario Bros, before they were Super. I've payed attention, before there was an Internet I read C&VG (which I remember as a BASIC listings magazine)EDGE and EGM for the latest information about games on all platforms. I owned one of the first 25 DMG-001 GameBoys in the UK, grey-imported from Japan. I could go on, but my point is, your call of ignorance, based on 2 forum posts, is at best, uninformed.
> 
> And Nintendo's biggest problem is that they are one dev with "a few unique ip's" whereas all the other dev's are making their much larger combined collection of IP available on the two consoles that Nintendo don't make. That 3rd party element is vital to a hardware manufacturer's success, but don't take my word for it, do some reading, history will back me up.


Absolutely true, I'm the same kind of collector and this trend does apply to every generation of gaming.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Well I could ignore your mild ad hominem accusation of ignorance, but as your subtitle suggests you're the latest in a long line of contrary 'Temp trolls, I'll bite.
> 
> I currently own every moderately successful console made in the last 25 years, excluding Wii U and PS4, with extensive game libraries for each, I've been fascinated with video games since I first played a Space Invaders arcade machine in 1978. I played Mario Bros, before they were Super. I've payed attention, before there was an Internet I read C&VG (which I remember as a BASIC listings magazine)EDGE and EGM for the latest information about games on all platforms. I owned one of the first 25 DMG-001 GameBoys in the UK, grey-imported from Japan. I could go on, but my point is, your call of ignorance, based on 2 forum posts, is at best, uninformed.
> 
> And Nintendo's biggest problem is that they are one dev with "a few unique ip's" whereas all the other dev's are making their much larger combined collection of IP available on the two consoles that Nintendo don't make. That 3rd party element is vital to a hardware manufacturer's success, but don't take my word for it, do some reading, history will back me up.


Where did i talk about third party for a console?  My call of ignorance was based on the idea that you said that devs always make new ip's except they dont and very few do (naughty dog is the only one that comes to mind.) Im not a troll, my title is based of the fact that my posts are usually different to everyone elses.
Nintendo arent one dev, did you forget game freak, intelligent systems, monolith, retro etc?
Edit: If a troll means someone with a different viewpoint to you, then sure i am one.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Yeah probably should have paused before adding the non sega-nintendo stuff. I am not sure I would make the NES to Apple IIGS to SNES leap either, or at least not any more than an i7 resembles a 386 (well maybe p4 to 386). Similarly while I can't disagree on the ST thing that is reaching a bit -- you say Atari platform (as opposed to dev/publisher) and nobody thinks ST; that was their throwing stuff at the wall stage. It might be possible to say we are both a bit CPU centric as well, whenever I learn one of these older consoles then even if it is a new CPU it is more the architecture and sound chips and such that gets the real time spent on it -- when it comes to in hardware sprite bothering the 6502 stuff is often not even close to each other. CPU wise in some ways it is a bit like saying one thing is derivative of the other because they both use an atmel microcontroller today, especially if you want to compare the amiga architecture to other things.
> 
> On standards then yeah, though I might argue arcades provided a standard of sorts for gaming, though perhaps considerably more aspirational than a derivation like today. That or I do not notice PC ports being superior as much as I did back when.
> 
> ...


I agree that the chips often times are nothing alike beyond the baseline ALU's, but one custom MOS 65xx is definitely closer to another 65xx than a 386 is to an i7 - you'd have a point if you compared different CPU's within the same microarchitecture that use different ALU's, which does happen today. Take the PS4 and the XBO CPU's - same CPU cores, same NGC cores, but beyond that the whole layout is different. For instance, the Xbox One sacrifices some of the space for GPU cores to shove a 32MB of embedded ESRAM onto the die to accelerate transfer rates to the DDR3 shared RAM - that's not something you expect to see on a "normal" AMD APU, and definitely not something used in the PC space - it's made for purpose. The customisations aren't as robust as they used to be in the 80'ies or 90'ies, but again, it's because we have certain standards now and we stick to them for the sake of efficiency.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

@Foxi4 What are your thoughts on nvidias latest Tegra announcement? (parker etc.)


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> @Foxi4 What are your thoughts on nvidias latest Tegra announcement? (parker etc.)


I don't really follow Tegra announcements since Nvidia are the biggest f*ckups in the mobile space - they make some of the best chips in the industry that *nobody uses*, it has to be a licensing issue or they're just hard to do business with. Get me up to speed.


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## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 27, 2016)

@mechagouki I bet stuff like Halo and CoD are super innovative and groundbreaking on every single installment lol.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't really follow Tegra announcements since Nvidia are the biggest f*ckups in the mobile space - they make some of the best chips in the industry that *nobody uses*, it has to be a licensing issue or they're just hard to do business with. Get me up to speed.


Found a site covering all the info, http://wccftech.com/nvidia-tegra-parker-soc-hot-chips/
With the info of parker i think NX using this SoC would make it a force to be reckoned with.
Theyve talked about how there are enough threads for both automotive and gaming (so gaming will be of some importance with their next chip)


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Found a site covering all the info, http://wccftech.com/nvidia-tegra-parker-soc-hot-chips/
> With the info of parker i think NX using this SoC would make it a force to be reckoned with.
> Theyve talked about how there are enough threads for both automotive and gaming (so gaming will be of some importance with their next chip)


The information is a little obfuscated from what I'm reading. They put a whole lot of attention on the Pascal cores, but don't talk much about the Denver2 cores or the advantages of using them over a standard big.LITTLE configuration of A53+A57. It's also a bit deceptive to compare the chip to the Huawei like they have in the comparison chart since the Huawei uses two A57 cores (the big muscle in the equation) while this new Parker chip uses 4 - of course it comes on top, it has twice the cores. Having looked at the Drive PX briefly, its TDP passes the 20W point, so it's impossible to implement it without a heatsink and active cooling to go full blast - that's not an option for the NX. Assuming that Nvidia was capable of making a stronger chip at a better manufacturing process, I'd optimistically assume that the new chip will maintain that thermal design point. If it were to be implemented and had to maintain consistent support for the same games in both modes, you'd have to slap a fan on the portable, and I don't see Nintendo doing that. I also don't see them using the latest tech - that's not what they do. The GPU prowess is unquestionable, but I don't know if the CPU would be good enough to compete with an octocore x86 - I'd have to make some calculations, but my guess is no. It's an exciting chip... For automotive purposes and an Android-based microconsole. It'd have to be "castrated" a bit to fit in a portable. Now, to be fair, I only skim-read the brief to find the juicy parts and I'm not an expert, so this isn't an educated opinion, just a quick assessment on my part.


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## Steena (Aug 27, 2016)

"we totally understood the WiiU's issues guys"
"you just didn't understand our product, also more unique gimmick technology so we can turn off some more devs while making our system cost double what it should cost for a quick eyecandy feature that gets boring after 5 minutes and will more often than not be a forced inclusion that disrupts gameplay"
Reggie. You also said that the original Wiimote was as accurate as traditional controls it's just people needed to not be bad with it. It's time to stop.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> The information is a little obfuscated from what I'm reading. They put a whole lot of attention on the Pascal cores, but don't talk much about the Denver2 cores or the advantages of using them over a standard big.LITTLE configuration of A53+A57. It's also a bit deceptive to compare the chip to the Huawei like they have in the comparison chart since the Huawei uses two A57 cores (the big muscle in the equation) while this new Parker chip uses 4 - of course it comes on top, it has twice the cores. Having looked at the Drive PX briefly, its TDP passes the 20W point, so it's impossible to implement it without a heatsink and active cooling to go full blast - that's not an option for the NX. Assuming that Nvidia was capable of making a stronger chip at a better manufacturing process, I'd optimistically assume that the new chip will maintain that thermal design point. If it were to be implemented and had to maintain consistent support for the same games in both modes, you'd have to slap a fan on the portable, and I don't see Nintendo doing that. I also don't see them using the latest tech - that's not what they do. The GPU prowess is unquestionable, but I don't know if the CPU would be good enough to compete with an octocore x86 - I'd have to make some calculations, but my guess is no. It's an exciting chip... For automotive purposes and an Android-based microconsole. It'd have to be "castrated" a bit to fit in a portable. Now, to be fair, I only skim-read the brief to find the juicy parts and I'm not an expert, so this isn't an educated opinion, just a quick assessment on my part.


I agree.


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## grossaffe (Aug 27, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> ARM uses a reduced instruction set while x86 uses a complex instruction set, ARM loads/saves data via registers while x86 can operate directly on memory, there are many advantages to discuss. I've never heard the notion of ARM being superior for supercomputers, it sounds ridiculous to me, most supercomputers use customised architectures designed for a specific purpose to begin with.



You say this as if CISC is a good thing.  It's not.  Accessing memory is orders of magnitude slower than accessing registers which is why a sane processor is loaded with registers so it doesn't have to go out to memory all the time.  What X86 has going for it is market penetration which leads to more money being dumped into making it work.  Kinda like how Adult Stem Cells are more useful for treatments than Embryonic Stem Cells because more research has been put into them than the controversial Embryonic Stem Cells that have a greater potential.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 27, 2016)

There is a difference between CISC and X86 with legacy baggage. Equally get a decent DMA controller, wind up the cache and a lot of that vanishes. Get fancy with some GPU driven computing and it gets even better.


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## grossaffe (Aug 27, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> There is a difference between CISC and X86 with legacy baggage. Equally get a decent DMA controller, wind up the cache and a lot of that vanishes. Get fancy with some GPU driven computing and it gets even better.


I was primarily responding to the point that CISC was an advantage.  Cache is nice and everything, but even that is a lot slower than registers.  But yes, a lot of money and research has been put into working around x86's flaws so we don't have to give up legacy support and move to a better architecture.  Consoles and such are not bound by x86 legacy support like PC, however, which is why none of the consoles used x86 until now (and the original XBOX, but seeing as Microsoft was a PC company trying their hat at console gaming, that's not too unsurprising).


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## mechagouki (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Where did i talk about third party for a console?  My call of ignorance was based on the idea that you said that devs always make new ip's except they dont and very few do (naughty dog is the only one that comes to mind.) Im not a troll, my title is based of the fact that my posts are usually different to everyone elses.
> Nintendo arent one dev, did you forget game freak, intelligent systems, monolith, retro etc?
> Edit: If a troll means someone with a different viewpoint to you, then sure i am one.




Well you're misquoting me now, I don't remember saying devs are always making new IPs, what I said was that the lack of independent 3rd party developers has harmed Nintendo going on 4 generations now. 

In case you're not aware, all the software houses you listed are affiliates or wholly owned subsidaries of Nintendo. That doesn't count as 3rd party.



TheDarkGreninja said:


> Im not a troll, my title is based of the fact that my posts are usually different to everyone elses.



So, what you're saying is, you're usually right, and everyone else is usually wrong?


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Well you're misquoting me now, I don't remember saying devs are always making new IPs, what I said was that the lack of independent 3rd party developers has harmed Nintendo going on 4 generations now.
> 
> In case you're not aware, all the software houses you listed are affiliates or wholly owned subsidaries of Nintendo. That doesn't count as 3rd party.
> 
> ...


No, i have an opinion and i want to voice it. What do you mean by third parties? Why would they give their IP's to third parties? Nintendo getting thrid party support is different to them making new ip's stop moving from the point.


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## Master Mo (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> The gampad features probably didnt show up as they hadnt completed them yet, seeing as how they had massive issues with the physics engine, im not surprised that what we got in the demo was an empty world with nothing in it (i bet they'd let us explore if they actually completed anything)



Aonuma: “We realised that having something on the GamePad and looking back and forth between the TV screen and the GamePad actually disrupts the gameplay, and the concentration that the game player may be experiencing,” Aonuma explained. “You have your car’s GPS system on your dash. If you had it down in your lap, you’re going to get into an accident!”

It seems to be a concious decision to not utilize the Gamepad. As I said I`m very disappointed in that and I don`t agree with him!

I definitely could see why they didn`t use the gamepad in Donkey Kong CTF but in Zelda... That`s just ridiculous!


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## omgpwn666 (Aug 27, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> even though they said its not a syccesor?



That would be very Nintendo of them.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 27, 2016)

Master Mo said:


> Aonuma: “We realised that having something on the GamePad and looking back and forth between the TV screen and the GamePad actually disrupts the gameplay, and the concentration that the game player may be experiencing,” Aonuma explained. “You have your car’s GPS system on your dash. If you had it down in your lap, you’re going to get into an accident!”
> 
> It seems to be a concious decision to not utilize the Gamepad. As I said I`m very disappointed in that and I don`t agree with him!
> 
> I definitely could see why they didn`t use the gamepad in Donkey Kong CTF but in Zelda... That`s just ridiculous!


If they showed of the gamepad controls on at he game awards event it means it was being developed and seeing as how it would work as inventory management and a map it wouldnt be an issue.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgpwn666 said:


> That would be very Nintendo of them.


Theyve changed god damnit


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## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> You say this as if CISC is a good thing.  It's not.  Accessing memory is orders of magnitude slower than accessing registers which is why a sane processor is loaded with registers so it doesn't have to go out to memory all the time.  What X86 has going for it is market penetration which leads to more money being dumped into making it work.  Kinda like how Adult Stem Cells are more useful for treatments than Embryonic Stem Cells because more research has been put into them than the controversial Embryonic Stem Cells that have a greater potential.


A more accurate comparison would be a standard petrol-fueled car versus a hydrogen-fueled one. I'm sure that there are many ecological advantages to using hydrogen, but there is no existing infrastructure for driving one feasibly and the horsepower-to-dollar ratio doesn't quite check out. Having the ability to perform operations directly on memory is important with heterogeneous memory setups around where the same addressing is shared by the CPU and GPU. It's an additional feature that ARM CPU's lack, nobody forces you to use it - as you've mentioned yourself, you can use registers as well, so it's a non-issue. The RISC vs. CISC argument is also stale since modern x86 CPU's have RISC cores on-board, they can even convert CISC instructions into RISC-like instructions with converters embedded into their microcode if they need to, so for all intents and purposes they can do both and choose whichever is more efficient for the task. Consoles are becoming more and more like PC's because their features are becoming more and more PC-like - they're more than just gaming machines, they're also media centers, so the progression towards x86 seems natural to me.


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## mechagouki (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> No, i have an opinion and i want to voice it. What do you mean by third parties? Why would they give their IP's to third parties? Nintendo getting thrid party support is different to them making new ip's stop moving from the point.



OK, for clarity.

My initial argument was that Nintendo's lack of new IP has harmed their hardware sales this generation, this cannot be argued, the numbers bear it out. The Wii was a success in many regions likely due to its popularity amongst casual gamers and anyone who had been previously intimidated by "all those buttons" on 6th gen. consoles. Unfortunately those same folks who loved Wii Sports resort and Wii fit are quite unlikely to see the benefit in buying a slightly more powerful but essentially very similar console. 

Because of its domination of the video game industry in the NES era, Nintendo adopted, and has stuck to, a quite rigid licensing policy, this combined with its penchant for making significantly different hardware to its closest competitors has alienated 3rd party development, starting with the N64. This has meant that many AAA titles just don't make it to Nintendo systems. 

Street Fighter is  good example, the 4th best selling game on the Super Nintendo, but Capcom has not made another Street Fighter game for a Nintendo home console since. Business is business, if they thought they would see significant sales of a title on a console, it would be made or ported. When was there last a true Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo home system? No GTA? Half-Life? The Wii U was the very last home console to see Minecraft, the second best selling video game in history!

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. That's what a forum is all about. But have you ever asked yourself why your is "usually" different to everyone else's?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 28, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> I was primarily responding to the point that CISC was an advantage.  Cache is nice and everything, but even that is a lot slower than registers.  But yes, a lot of money and research has been put into working around x86's flaws so we don't have to give up legacy support and move to a better architecture.  Consoles and such are not bound by x86 legacy support like PC, however, which is why none of the consoles used x86 until now (and the original XBOX, but seeing as Microsoft was a PC company trying their hat at console gaming, that's not too unsurprising).


...and here we have the crux of the issue - in the past they weren't bound by those constraints, but today they very much are, at least in my opinion. As for "working around the flaws" of x86, most legacy stuff is either virtualized or emulated these days, modern x86 CPU's aren't carrying around three decades of computing history on-die.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Theyve changed god damnit



Though I am not likely to forget Nintendo's three pillars nonsense any time soon, primarily as it was funny at the time and has only improved with age, I would have to agree that was however many years ago, however in the years since they have repeatedly denied things until the last moment (probably even with vendors having stock in shops) and I also can not believe for a moment that had the DSi worked that they would not have pulled a GBC on us.
Amusingly I am more likely to believe such things from Sony or MS, though at the same time had things been a runaway success (as opposed to the string of failures MS has seen and general apathy that has greeted much of what Sony has done in recent years).


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## mechagouki (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> What do you mean by third parties? Why would they give their IP's to third parties?



Oh yes, forgot to address this. all i'm going to say is:


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 28, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Though I am not likely to forget Nintendo's three pillars nonsense any time soon, primarily as it was funny at the time and has only improved with age, I would have to agree that was however many years ago, however in the years since they have repeatedly denied things until the last moment (probably even with vendors having stock in shops) and I also can not believe for a moment that had the DSi worked that they would not have pulled a GBC on us.
> Amusingly I am more likely to believe such things from Sony or MS, though at the same time had things been a runaway success (as opposed to the string of failures MS has seen and general apathy that has greeted much of what Sony has done in recent years).


I was being satirical.


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## Pluupy (Aug 28, 2016)

I want to be wow'd by Nintendo home consoles again.



mechagouki said:


> Oh yes, forgot to address this. all i'm going to say is:


In case someone does not understand, these two games as well as "Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap" were developed by Capcom, a third-party developer.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 28, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> OK, for clarity.
> 
> My initial argument was that Nintendo's lack of new IP has harmed their hardware sales this generation, this cannot be argued, the numbers bear it out. The Wii was a success in many regions likely due to its popularity amongst casual gamers and anyone who had been previously intimidated by "all those buttons" on 6th gen. consoles. Unfortunately those same folks who loved Wii Sports resort and Wii fit are quite unlikely to see the benefit in buying a slightly more powerful but essentially very similar console.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have, usually its because in the minority in terms of my way of thinking. I agree with your points but most of this is down to shoddy marketing and weak architecture. The NX, however, is a very different ball game, if they play their cards right this console can be a success, we've seen Nintendo become more flexible with their funding of indie titles as well as their move into the mobile market.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mechagouki said:


> Oh yes, forgot to address this. all i'm going to say is:


Capcom and nintendo have a long history. I forgot the story as to why they moved development to Capcom however ill look into it before i start and argument.

Edit: seems a guy who worked at capcoms subsidiary Flagship proposed the idea to miyamoto who liked the idea and went to the higher ups to get this deal done. So, it wasnt really just out of the blue.




Pluupy said:


> I want to be wow'd by Nintendo home consoles again.
> 
> 
> In case someone does not understand, these two games as well as "Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap" were developed by Capcom, a third-party developer.


NX is reported to be a hybrid so the traditional home console is out the window.


----------



## DSAndi (Aug 28, 2016)

Actually i only wait for Nintendo beeing out of buissness. They always do the same type of games or remakes over and over and get almost no 3rd party titles.
If they dint rule the handheld sector they where already out of buissness.

Really i dont care about Nintendo or there games anymore. 
The best time they had was with the Super Famicon/SNES, after that they made mistakes after mistakes leading to less and less support from 3rd party for home consoles. 

Really Nintendo go die.


----------



## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 28, 2016)

DSAndi said:


> Actually i only wait for Nintendo beeing out of buissness. They always do the same type of games or remakes over and over and get almost no 3rd party titles.
> If they dint rule the handheld sector they where already out of buissness.
> 
> Really i dont care about Nintendo or there games anymore.
> ...


Someone needs to die and it's definitely not Nintendo


----------



## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

DSAndi said:


> Actually i only wait for Nintendo beeing out of buissness. They always do the same type of games or remakes over and over and get almost no 3rd party titles.
> If they dint rule the handheld sector they where already out of buissness.
> 
> Really i dont care about Nintendo or there games anymore.
> ...



Nintendo has a lot of money and aren't dying anytime soon. In fact they've been around over 100 years as a company. Why do they need to go out of business for you to feel better about yourself? Why can't you just not buy their games or consoles? It's beyond not caring about Nintendo you are a Nintendo hater.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 28, 2016)

DSAndi said:


> Actually i only wait for Nintendo beeing out of buissness. They always do the same type of games or remakes over and over and get almost no 3rd party titles.
> If they dint rule the handheld sector they where already out of buissness.
> 
> Really i dont care about Nintendo or there games anymore.
> ...


And this @mechagouki is a troll.


----------



## GuyInDogSuit (Aug 28, 2016)

Uhhh, let's see.... Don't fuck around with bullshit gimmicks like motion control and two separate gamepads. Oh, and MORE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. Fucking morons.


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## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

GuyInDogSuit said:


> Uhhh, let's see.... Don't fuck around with bullshit gimmicks like motion control and two separate gamepads. Oh, and MORE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. Fucking morons.



Yeah they should just go out and get MORE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT THOSE MORONS. Because it's up to Nintendo if third party companies want to support them, they were just being lazy.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 28, 2016)

100 years as a company means very little, especially in this games and technology lark.

There may be merit to a case for them to die if you think they are holding things back. I don't think they have the clout any more to hold things back like they once might have but I am prepared to hear otherwise.

Edit. Yes it is up to Nintendo to attract third parties. They have to provide the environment for it to happen (good hardware, good tools, good terms, good infrastructure... all the sorts of things we were discussing in earlier pages), post SNES (and arguably towards the end of the SNES if only by quasi monopoly in places) they have not provided a great place in home consoles, and the end of the ds and 3ds has saw their handheld reign if not end then get seriously damaged.


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## grossaffe (Aug 28, 2016)

DSAndi said:


> Really i dont care about Nintendo or there games anymore.
> The best time they had was with the Super Famicon/SNES, after that they made mistakes after mistakes leading to less and less support from 3rd party for home consoles.
> 
> Really Nintendo go die.


So in other words, you don't care for their products, so fuck everyone else who does.  One more name for my ignore list.


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## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

It seems like Nintendo either has fans or people who wish for their demise and there's no in between. Seems like the ones who really hate Nintendo could just ignore them but nope they have to chime in with their opinions. Newsflash if you hate Nintendo then they have no need to cater to you. Like I dislike Activision but I'm not going to go out of my way to make a thread about it or sign up for their forum just to announce this.

The 100 years+ is relevent because they still have a ton of money in the bank so you may think they're close to dying but they're no where near it, they know how to adapt and survive. They could make 3 or 4 more failed consoles and not go out of business, much to the tears of some of you.

"Edit. Yes it is up to Nintendo to attract third parties. They have to provide the environment for it to happen (good hardware, good tools, good terms, good infrastructure... all the sorts of things we were discussing in earlier pages), post SNES (and arguably towards the end of the SNES if only by quasi monopoly in places) they have not provided a great place in home consoles, and the end of the ds and 3ds has saw their handheld reign if not end then get seriously damaged."

They don't have to do any of that why cause you say so? and they've killed with the ds AND 3ds so you're wrong there. 3ds has sold over 100 million, the mark of a true success and they've more or less made Sony decide to give up on handhelds the Vita is still alive but Sony doesn't put Triple A titles on it and they've said recently they won't make another handheld so I'd say Nintendo is alright in the handheld market.


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## DarthDub (Aug 28, 2016)

Pluupy said:


> I want to be wow'd by Nintendo home consoles again.
> 
> 
> In case someone does not understand, these two games as well as "Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap" were developed by Capcom, a third-party developer.


And Four Swords.


----------



## codezer0 (Aug 28, 2016)

Not sure about others, but I do recall how the Dreamcast US launch weas probably the best console launch in gaming history. Most retailers had decent stock of the system, and an excellent variety of games that pushed the hardware from the word 'go', including the primary franchises like Sonic.

Then new titles like Soul Calibur, Jet Grind Radio, and Marvel vs Capcom (which might have not been at launch, but was pretty much there almost right after), it's hard to say anything negative about the launch of the Sega Dreamcast. Conversely, the PS2 had one of the worst launch lineups in history. Actually, pretty much since the PS2, Sony had NO GAEMZ for any of its launches, flat out. Yet people seem obsessed with buying their consoles, leaving me scratching my head... until I realize that pretty much you have to buy the launch version of any sony console before they forcibly gimp it in revisions.


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## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

It's not how you start it's how you finish. Unfortunately for Wii U it didn't start or finish well.


----------



## codezer0 (Aug 28, 2016)

But if they want people to even think about the NX after what they asked for from the WiiU, they need a launch lineup of legendary proportions.

I know some will be circle jerking for the next five years just for the next Zelda game being a launch title for the system. That much is a given. We all know someone that will absolutely buy any entry from a specific Nintendo franchise, even when they aren't that good.

I for one am... at best, immune to the apparent charms of the Zelda franchise. I for one have moved on from trying it out anymore because I know they're not for me. But I'm just as sick and tired of these nitwits that want to get hostile and act like they're something wrong with *me* because I like Nintendo, but _don't like Zelda_ games.  And they're going to need more variety than just a Zelda game for a launch if they want to earn my dollars on their NX console.

And yes, even if that means that Nintendo will have to shed some of that "family friendly" image to get the games that draw in people to the system. _No More Heroes_ and _MadWorld_ were amazing for the Wii, and _Killer7_ was phenomenal on the GameCube; but there's literally nothing like it on the WiiU, and that saddens me terribly. And while the PS3 and 360 got some great stuff from Suda51, literally nothing on the WiiU. And lately, rather than take a page from Capcom or Sega and support high-quality fan games released that respect their franchises, Nintendo would rather C&D and sue fan game makers, and try to seize assets like the whole content ID stuff they are doing on YouTube videos _still to this day_, even though their own corporate page claims they do sign off and authorize the use of their characters for fan projects. It waxes of inconsistency.

As for the WiiU for me, I wouldn't buy one _new_. While of the current generation of consoles, it's still the one with the most games _for it I'd want_, their corporate behavior, and especially taht EULA update that effectively bricked a WiiU console, are a huge turn-off for me and I won't abide by that behavior. Now, if someone gifted a system to me, or I was able to find a killer deal on one second-hand, I could maybe swing it. But new? Nope.avi.


----------



## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

codezer0 said:


> But if they want people to even think about the NX after what they asked for from the WiiU, they need a launch lineup of legendary proportions.
> 
> I know some will be circle jerking for the next five years just for the next Zelda game being a launch title for the system. That much is a given. We all know someone that will absolutely buy any entry from a specific Nintendo franchise, even when they aren't that good.
> 
> I for one am... at best, immune to the apparent charms of the Zelda franchise. I for one have moved on from trying it out anymore because I know they're not for me. But I'm just as sick and tired of these nitwits that want to get hostile and act like they're something wrong with *me* because I like Nintendo, but _don't like Zelda_ games.  And they're going to need more variety than just a Zelda game for a launch if they want to earn my dollars on their NX console.



They said Zelda Mario and Pokemon in the first 6 months. I'm not a Pokemon fan but it's a big seller. Mario, I hope it's not a New Super Mario Bros otherwise I'm in. Buyers have short memories I don't think Wii U will effect NX much. I think the Wii U would have been a little more successful if mothers didn't think it was an accessory for the Wii. As long as they don't call NX Wii Us I think it'll be ok.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 28, 2016)

NoSoul81 said:


> They said Zelda Mario and Pokemon in the first 6 months. I'm not a Pokemon fan but it's a big seller. Mario, I hope it's not a New Super Mario Bros otherwise I'm in. Buyers have short memories I don't think Wii U will effect NX much. I think the Wii U would have been a little more successful if mothers didn't think it was an accessory for the Wii. As long as they don't call NX Wii Us I think it'll be ok.


Wii U Deluxe


----------



## codezer0 (Aug 28, 2016)

NoSoul81 said:


> They said Zelda Mario and Pokemon in the first 6 months. I'm not a Pokemon fan but it's a big seller. Mario, I hope it's not a New Super Mario Bros otherwise I'm in. Buyers have short memories I don't think Wii U will effect NX much. I think the Wii U would have been a little more successful if mothers didn't think it was an accessory for the Wii. As long as they don't call NX Wii Us I think it'll be ok.


See, that depresses me.

I remember very distinctly how Sony refused to admit the overheating problems with the PS1, that they themselves caused. So imagine how aghast I was when the PSOne redesign came out with even less ventilation and ability to manage the heat from the internal components. I also remember how Sony was sued twice for the constant defects of the PS2, but then everyone seems to act like these problems never happened while crucifying Microsoft on the 360. I knew that RRoD's happened, but my launch 360 only RRoD'd because the hard drive it came with failed. And the Elite unit I have received as a replacement has been trucking for six plus years now.  Of course people also magically forgot about the YLoD on the PS3's, of which I have one system suffering from, and no avenue to get it reballed. I refuse to send it in to Sony both becfause it's a full-BC unit (not my 60gig, thank god), but they'll also update the firmware which screws me out of any CFW avenues - in part because all the downgrader hardware out there only works on the neutered Slims, and nobody wants to ever make one that works on a BC unit like mine.

Nintendo's not exactly out of the woods, either. They started the NES here with composite A/V and RF out, but then removed the RF for the revised model. There was also how the revised SNES systems couldn't even output S-Video. Or the GameCube that lost the digital out for Component video in its mid-refresh. Or did you forget the Wii mini too, that went full Bono and removed USB ports and its internet capability from the firmware?

Just thinking of all these colossal screw-ups... I find myself pining for a better word for summarizing this kind of behavior. Yet many image boards and meme sites would default to calling them "autism in action". Any suggestions?


----------



## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

By the way for those hoping for Nintendo to die by all means hold your breath. This is from 2014

Buried in reams of financial data is the revelation that Nintendo have 812.8 billion Yen (£6.7/$10.5 billion) in the bank – enough for it to take a 20 billion Yen loss (£163/$257 million) every year until 2052. Then there’s almost 469 billion Yen (£3.8/$6.0 billion) held in premises, equipment and investments. When that runs out – we’re in the year 2075 by this point – they’ve got some of the most valuable intellectual property in gaming to sell off before the company goes out of business.

http://wiiudaily.com/2014/03/nintendo-not-doomed/

To top it off they just sold all but 10% of their stakes in the Seattle Mariners worth over 600 million. Nintendo's not going anywhere.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 28, 2016)

codezer0 said:


> See, that depresses me.
> 
> I remember very distinctly how Sony refused to admit the overheating problems with the PS1, that they themselves caused. So imagine how aghast I was when the PSOne redesign came out with even less ventilation and ability to manage the heat from the internal components. I also remember how Sony was sued twice for the constant defects of the PS2, but then everyone seems to act like these problems never happened while crucifying Microsoft on the 360. I knew that RRoD's happened, but my launch 360 only RRoD'd because the hard drive it came with failed. And the Elite unit I have received as a replacement has been trucking for six plus years now.  Of course people also magically forgot about the YLoD on the PS3's, of which I have one system suffering from, and no avenue to get it reballed. I refuse to send it in to Sony both becfause it's a full-BC unit (not my 60gig, thank god), but they'll also update the firmware which screws me out of any CFW avenues - in part because all the downgrader hardware out there only works on the neutered Slims, and nobody wants to ever make one that works on a BC unit like mine.
> 
> ...


I actually didn't know about the cooling-related and other issues that the PS1 and PS2 had. I was well aware of the PS3's YLoD shit though.


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## codezer0 (Aug 28, 2016)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I actually didn't know about the cooling-related and other issues that the PS1 and PS2 had. I was well aware of the PS3's YLoD shit though.


The early PS1 systems had the CD-ROM motor sitting literally on top of the CPU chip of the system board. Later versions of the big boxy one had moved it over, but there were also third party coolers for the thing, ranging from $30~50 laptop-style passive coolers that tried blowing in from underneath (not very effective for anything but prevention) to a very expensive $100 ducting unit I'd seen that plugs into the side, uses its own AC cord, but basically was like forced induction of airflow into the system.

The PS2 was primarily shipped with a knowingly shitty and weak set of optics for several revisions. The problems didn't stop with the slim either, because the original slims (v10) had game breaking incompatibility issues with high-profile PS1 and PS2 games, such as FF 7 and GTA San Andreas. It also suffered from what became known in the modchip community as random laser fry syndrome, because Sony cheaped on some VRM's for the laser that were rated for 3x the power the diode needed... and thus one good burst of current would immediately render the laser system useless.


----------



## GuyInDogSuit (Aug 28, 2016)

NoSoul81 said:


> Yeah they should just go out and get MORE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT THOSE MORONS. Because it's up to Nintendo if third party companies want to support them, they were just being lazy.


Nice smart ass response. No need to be a jerk. You know that ever since the days of the original Nintendo, they controlled whose games made it to their system, right? Hell, they even had a gold seal on every game. Of course, there were Korean and Chinese games made for it that weren't approved. Nowadays they oversee things like censorship in those third party games, and many third party developers don't want to develop for that hardware. We miss out on so many games because of it.


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## Deleted User (Aug 28, 2016)

codezer0 said:


> The early PS1 systems had the CD-ROM motor sitting literally on top of the CPU chip of the system board. Later versions of the big boxy one had moved it over, but there were also third party coolers for the thing, ranging from $30~50 laptop-style passive coolers that tried blowing in from underneath (not very effective for anything but prevention) to a very expensive $100 ducting unit I'd seen that plugs into the side, uses its own AC cord, but basically was like forced induction of airflow into the system.
> 
> The PS2 was primarily shipped with a knowingly shitty and weak set of optics for several revisions. The problems didn't stop with the slim either, because the original slims (v10) had game breaking incompatibility issues with high-profile PS1 and PS2 games, such as FF 7 and GTA San Andreas. It also suffered from what became known in the modchip community as random laser fry syndrome, because Sony cheaped on some VRM's for the laser that were rated for 3x the power the diode needed... and thus one good burst of current would immediately render the laser system useless.


Now that you mention random laser fry syndrome, I think I have heard of that once or twice in the past.


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## EmulateLife (Aug 28, 2016)

GuyInDogSuit said:


> Nice smart ass response. No need to be a jerk. You know that ever since the days of the original Nintendo, they controlled whose games made it to their system, right? Hell, they even had a gold seal on every game. Of course, there were Korean and Chinese games made for it that weren't approved. Nowadays they oversee things like censorship in those third party games, and many third party developers don't want to develop for that hardware. We miss out on so many games because of it.



You made a dumb ass post so I thought it was fitting to give you a dumb ass response. I appreciate the compliment calling it a smart ass response I thought it was a dumb ass response.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> The detachable controllers make it more portable.


it's still a handheld POSING as a console


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## osirisjem (Aug 28, 2016)

Voxel said:


> Reggie Fils-Aimé, the CEO of Nintendo of America, explained that Nintendo *needs to improve their communication* of "the positioning" of the NX during its launch, going on to say how they need to do a better job helping people understand the "uniqueness" of the system and what it means for "the game-playing experience".



Total crap.
The Wii U failed because it was a failed idea.  It had nothing to do with communication.  Hopefully, Nintendo internally realizes that the Wii U failed because it was a bad idea.  

What sucked ? 
- The Tablet controller was a bad idea.   
- underpowered
- wasn't ready on launch. (the menus barely worked on launch). 

Mix in the usual Nintendo issues. 
- unable to attract 3rd party support 
- slow release schedule for games.


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## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 28, 2016)

The GamePad was not, in fact, a bad idea. It's an excellent idea that was badly implemented and promoted.


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## codezer0 (Aug 28, 2016)

The tablet controller basically siphoned power away from the WiiU that it could have been using to making the games run better on the main TV. The off-TV functionality is admittedly nice, but it would have been better handled if the tablet itself had some kind of dedicated processing to not need the host system to render for it, too. The WiiU also wasn't enough of an upgrade from the standard Wii to really be able to push _both displays fluidly_. Especially not at anything that we were already expecting and used to on the other consoles. It should have been stronger to remain viable. As it is now, it's about as anemic as the 3DO was compared to the PlayStation and Saturn.


----------



## mechagouki (Aug 28, 2016)

Just so you all know I'm not a Nintendo hater, talking about the Oracle games reminded me how much I loved them, and i remembered that I had this little project sitting in a drawer somewhere.
My battered but functional GBC, a broken SP that is going to donate its frontlight, and both Oracle games, which I'm going to play all the way through again once the mod is done.


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## EmanueleBGN (Aug 28, 2016)

I hope that "Better communication" in Italy will not means "More ads on tv channels for children" like they are doing for 2DS/3DS...


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 28, 2016)

I know the thing i hope NX has, a way to back up save files and better web browser and flash! I know is probably something minor people may not care about, which brings me to my next point. Better wifi and support for on demand streaming app, maybe something reason i won't need to buy a smart tv or chromecast over, like a TWITCH APP (probably should have been one for wii u) 60 FPS youtube, and some of the others with better support. I will be upset if they don't even have 5GHZ connection for AC dual band routers.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 28, 2016)

If they make it backwards compatible with Wii U games out of box, I'm not buying it. That means they're still using the same processor family as the GameCube. 



osirisjem said:


> Total crap.
> The Wii U failed because it was a failed idea.  It had nothing to do with communication.  Hopefully, Nintendo internally realizes that the Wii U failed because it was a bad idea.
> 
> What sucked ?
> ...


I disagree.  See this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## the assaf (Aug 28, 2016)

Third screen confirmed .


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## FAST6191 (Aug 28, 2016)

First @DSAndi master wind up there mate, *high five*



NoSoul81 said:


> It seems like Nintendo either has fans or people who wish for their demise and there's no in between. Seems like the ones who really hate Nintendo could just ignore them but nope they have to chime in with their opinions. Newsflash if you hate Nintendo then they have no need to cater to you. Like I dislike Activision but I'm not going to go out of my way to make a thread about it or sign up for their forum just to announce this.
> 
> The 100 years+ is relevent because they still have a ton of money in the bank so you may think they're close to dying but they're no where near it, they know how to adapt and survive. They could make 3 or 4 more failed consoles and not go out of business, much to the tears of some of you.
> 
> ...



Shit or get off the pot is a valid position to hold, if a thing is past its prime and doing silly things then calls for both barrels and get something new happens often enough.

Company for 100 years and money in the bank are different concepts. Equally "next quarter" is what a lot of shareholders care about, and if not next quarter then annual returns. You lose too much (or drop share price too much), too many times in a row and you start seeing shareholder revolts and board revolts and credit score changes and then calls to streamline the company and then various people not wanting to work with you/give you the benefit of the doubt. Equally 20 million is not an awful lot of money in international company world.

The NES and SNES were not successes because Nintendo's in house dev teams put out endless top product. Much of the love for it is from third party games, much of the love for any platform is for third party software (Microsoft Office, internet explorer and age of empires doubtless count exclusive for some of why some people pay for and use Windows for instance). Equally it is not a hard notion that attracting third party devs is something a platform maker has to do themselves these days -- there is plenty of competition with low or no barriers to entry where nintendo seems to still operate like it is something of a privilege. I think got on a bit of defensive, for a big company that does not need your defending too, and are missing the point. They should not do it because my hairy arse says so, they should do it because that is how the world works these days.

The 3ds saw a fairly large exodus of devs that made the GBA and DS what it was for a lot of people, there are far fewer games in general. Also are we not counting Android in this?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Even though both those chips arent going to ever be used in portables? (mostly intel.) Price vs power, pascal has polaris beat. An X2 ARM chip running pascal architecture beats the x86 Ps4 and XBONE.
> Also dont atom and AX need cooling in some way?


Something I forgot to mention initially which dawned upon me just now - I'll chalk it up to lack of sleep. The X2 most certainly does not "beat the PS4 and the Xbox One", even with the Pascal architecture in place. They announced the chip to be rated at 1.5 TFLOPS, but that's an FP16 (16-bit Floating Point) figure, the Xbox One's GPU is rated at 1.31 TFLOPS and the PS4 is rated at 1.84 TFLOPS, but those are both FP32 figures. If the X2 works anything like the X1, two FP16 ops equal one FP32 op, so the actual performance is half of the one declared, meaning 750GFLOPS, which is a little over a half of Xbox One's GPU and less than half of the PS4. I thought I should point that out since if you're expecting the same level of performance from an X2-powered machine, it's not going to happen. Just a little extra obfuscation on nvidia's part, they tend to do this sort of thing, which is why I don't trust any of their press releases until I see real-life benchmarks, not some score they came up with in a lab.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driving-cars/

Check Note [1], the cheeky buggers. If you're wondering why the whole Drive PX2 module reaches 8 TFLOPS, it's because it has four Pascal GPU's, two in the Tegra X2 chips and two separate GPU's in MXM packages on the back of the board. Gotta love the fine print.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 28, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> The Tegra X1 has a TDP of 15W, it's on the verge of necessitating active cooling when going full blast and X2 is unlikely to be any different as the X line is not made for portable applications, it's made for automotive and marine applications, not phones or tablets. Debating its use in a handheld is pointless because you can't feasibly use it in a handheld anyways.


I don't think it'd be a big deal to throw an active fan on some corner of the console, just have to design around it.  The X1 is what powers Shield TV, a full-powered console the size of a portable.  Also outputs video at 4K.  Wouldn't be too shabby at all even if the NX uses X1 instead of X2.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 28, 2016)

Xzi said:


> I don't think it'd be a big deal to throw an active fan on some corner of the console, just have to design around it.  The X1 is what powers Shield TV, a full-powered console the size of a portable.  Also outputs video at 4K.  Wouldn't be too shabby at all even if the NX uses X1 instead of X2.


The Shield TV, predictably, consumes 20W of power when gaming, that's not sustainable for a portable, which is why it's not a portable.

EDIT: As for the fan, you absolutely can add one, but a fan assembly adds a significant amount of thickness to the system. The Shield portable uses a fan, for instance. It's the power consumption that's a bigger worry here as the system needs to work for a significant amount of time when undocked to be truly considered portable.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 28, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Something I forgot to mention initially which dawned upon me just now - I'll chalk it up to lack of sleep. The X2 most certainly does not "beat the PS4 and the Xbox One", even with the Pascal architecture in place. They announced the chip to be rated at 1.5 TFLOPS, but that's an FP16 (16-bit Floating Point) figure, the Xbox One's GPU is rated at 1.31 TFLOPS and the PS4 is rated at 1.84 TFLOPS, but those are both FP32 figures. If the X2 works anything like the X1, two FP16 ops equal one FP32 op, so the actual performance is half of the one declared, meaning 750GFLOPS, which is a little over a half of Xbox One's GPU and less than half of the PS4. I thought I should point that out since if you're expecting the same level of performance from an X2-powered machine, it's not going to happen. Just a little extra obfuscation on nvidia's part, they tend to do this sort of thing, which is why I don't trust any of their press releases until I see real-life benchmarks, not some score they came up with in a lab.
> 
> https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driving-cars/
> 
> Check Note [1], the cheeky buggers. If you're wondering why the whole Drive PX2 module reaches 8 TFLOPS, it's because it has four Pascal GPU's, two in the Tegra X2 chips and two separate GPU's in MXM packages on the back of the board. Gotta love the fine print.


Yeah i noticed that last night when fiance pointed it out to me. Also the PX is meant for automotive i believe so we wont ever see it anything else.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Bladexdsl said:


> it's still a handheld POSING as a console


Is that not a good thing?


----------



## GuyInDogSuit (Aug 28, 2016)

NoSoul81 said:


> You made a dumb ass post so I thought it was fitting to give you a dumb ass response. I appreciate the compliment calling it a smart ass response I thought it was a dumb ass response.


There was nothing dumbass about it, dumbass.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Is that not a good thing?


oh trust me it won't be


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 28, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> oh trust me it won't be


Why do you say that?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 28, 2016)

cos handhelds are a dying breed all the casuals have mobiles now


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## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 28, 2016)

It's not like home consoles are selling any better than handhelds.


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## codezer0 (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Is that not a good thing?


No, and I need only point in one direction why it won't be.

Look at all the Android/Linux microconsoles out there now. What do they all have? Tons of freemium and budget level schlock. Most people that ever buy one at most play angry birds or try to use YouTube and netflix on it, unaware that netflix arbitrarily blocks higher definition capability on "mobile devices" (even when they aren't), even when they have the ability to pull down a higher quality feed.

Do you really want your NX to have a library like that? Are you really prepared to having to pay for a full fledged console only to be swamped in 999 Candy Crush and whatever flavor of the month trending android/iOS game gets copied ad nauseum? There's like 10,000 variants on flappy bird, for fuck's sake.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 28, 2016)

People who are giving the idea sh*t for being "a portable masquerading as a console" are silly. The future is in portables, not stationary systems - people want their media to follow them around, and the only evidence you need is the exodus of smartphones we've seen in the last couple of years. There *are* ways to make this happen without sacrificing horsepower when docked, ports like Thunderbolt offer enough throughput to allow for external GPU's with little to no loss of performance. You could conceivably design a system that runs the same software at low res and low detail when undocked and high res, high detail when docked. If anything, my only worry is the controller which seems like crap to me. They should ditch the idea of a detachable controller, create a low-key docking station and a separate set of wireless controllers for said station.


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## Haider Raza (Aug 28, 2016)

I want NX to be like 3ds but graphics like ps4! Man it will be awesome if this happens!!


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## Foxi4 (Aug 28, 2016)

Haider Raza said:


> I want NX to be like 3ds but graphics like ps4! Man it will be awesome if this happens!!


Unfortunately that's impossible in portable mode, but if they used the absolute latest tech (which they won't for reasons discussed earlier), they can get about half-way there, which is good enough on a small screen.


----------



## pivix (Aug 28, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Unfortunately that's impossible in portable mode, but if they used the absolute latest tech (which they won't for reasons discussed earlier), they can get about half-way there, which is good enough on a small screen.


Also battery time will drop with good specs.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 28, 2016)

pivix said:


> Also battery time will drop with good specs.


That's what I meant - we spent the last couple of pages discussing the boring issues of thermal design, power consumption and battery sizes.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 28, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> People who are giving the idea sh*t for being "a portable masquerading as a console" are silly. The future is in portables, not stationary systems - people want their media to follow them around, and the only evidence you need is the exodus of smartphones we've seen in the last couple of years. There *are* ways to make this happen without sacrificing horsepower when docked, ports like Thunderbolt offer enough throughput to allow for external GPU's with little to no loss of performance. You could conceivably design a system that runs the same software at low res and low detail when undocked and high res, high detail when docked. If anything, my only worry is the controller which seems like crap to me. They should ditch the idea of a detachable controller, create a low-key docking station and a separate set of wireless controllers for said station.


I think there will be a home console aspect kinda like an Nvidia shield tv with a dock for the portable.
Edit: Might as well explain what i mean, so the home console will use exactly the same chip or 1 up vs the portable. It'll run exactly the same games and will be cheaper than the portable or the same price as it, the portable will have a dummy dock which is basically an output and charge, and when connecting to the home console acts as an egpu. This could mean 4k gaming at a much cheaper price (adding in the suplementary computing device as well as the fact the NX can help other NX's by the way of a reward service.)


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## vayanui8 (Aug 29, 2016)

A system that offers power at home, and portability so I can take it on the go is pretty much the ideal system. I can see this being very successful in japan as well because they are very focused on portable technology. If rumors about the NX are true Nintendo  has really outdone themselves, as long as they don't do that detachable controller idea. That said, I still have my doubts that they will advertise it well in the US. NoA have been very out of touch with alot of customers lately. Hopefully they advertise it better than the Wii U because its advertising was very poor.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 29, 2016)

vayanui8 said:


> A system that offers power at home, and portability so I can take it on the go is pretty much the ideal system. I can see this being very successful in japan as well because they are very focused on portable technology. If rumors about the NX are true Nintendo  has really outdone themselves, as long as they don't do that detachable controller idea. That said, I still have my doubts that they will advertise it well in the US. NoA have been very out of touch with alot of customers lately. Hopefully they advertise it better than the Wii U because its advertising was very poor.


The detachable controller is probably to make sure you dont destroy the thumbsticks when put in your pocket theyre probably not actually wireless.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> The detachable controller is probably to make sure you dont destroy the thumbsticks when put in your pocket theyre probably not actually wireless.


I know this mightily be a novel idea, but they could just make it a clamshell. Worrying about analog sticks when there's a huge 4-5 inch screen ready for the scratching is silly. Not that it matters, since the Vita and the PSP both had an exposed screen and sticks and they're perfectly fine, the whole detaching idea is stupid as the controller will not be as comfortable as a dedicated one. We also realize that it wouldn't be wired, we're aware of the concept of ports.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I know this mightily be a novel idea, but they could just make it a clamshell. Worrying about analog sticks when there's a huge 4-5 inch screen ready for the scratching is silly. Not that it matters, since the Vita and the PSP both had an exposed screen and sticks and they're perfectly fine, the whole detaching idea is stupid as the controller will not be as comfortable as a dedicated one. We also realize that it wouldn't be wired, we're aware of the concept of ports.


A clamshell would be nice but the latest patent doesnt suggest it (also agrees with me on that theyre not wireless just modules.)  Modular is really interesting as it means the portable can have different control schemes and set ups. Hopefully nintendo make something similar to a shield tv to go with this.
source


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## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> A clamshell would be nice but the latest patent doesnt suggest it (also agrees with me on that theyre not wireless just modules.)  Modular is really interesting as it means the portable can have different control schemes and set ups. Hopefully nintendo make something similar to a shield tv to go with this.


Patents drawings are not representative of the final product, a few of Nintendo's controller patents just show an oval with buttons IIRC, so don't you worry about those. As for this whole discussion, it kinda reminds me of the rumour that the 3DS was supposed to be powered by a Tegra chip that was spread around immediately before the system's release. We're speculating like crazy and deep down we all want Nintendo to do something competently, but realistically chances are that they won't. I can't wait for all of this to be proven false when the Big N releases another piece of sh*t system... that we're all gonna rush out for and buy. The cycle continues...


----------



## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Patents drawings are not representative of the final product, a few of Nintendo's controller patents just show an oval with buttons IIRC, so don't you worry about those. As for this whole discussion, it kinda reminds me of the rumour that the 3DS was supposed to be powered by a Tegra chip that was spread around immediately before the system's release. We're speculating like crazy and deep down we all want Nintendo to do something competently, but realistically chances are that they won't. I can't wait for all of this to be proven false when the Big N releases another piece of sh*t system... that we're all gonna rush out for and buy. The cycle continues...


Actually, early 3DS devkits or dev units had a Tegra CPU/GPU in mind iirc. So it might be based off the Tegra anyway.

I'm actually hoping it will succeed, but the modular controllers look really cumbersome and trash. It would be just simpler to pack in a standard gaming controller and a pair of Wiimote-like motion controllers. That way It'd be far simpler to engage with any controller setup without making easily breakable parts.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

FrozenDragon150 said:


> Actually, early 3DS devkits or dev units had a Tegra CPU/GPU in mind iirc. So it might be based off the Tegra anyway.


Ah yes, the pie in the sky, never spotted in the wild devkits. Those devkits? Okay.  And even if they did exist, which I question (on the grounds of them never being photographed or otherwise reported), it's such a Nintendo thing to do to take something good and turn it into their proprietary nonsense that doesn't work properly. Besides, the whole Nvidia debacle is pretty questionable anyways concerning the fact that the NX chip was supposed to be made by AMD. This would make sense as they have a long history with them, Nintendo switching to Nvidia all of a sudden would be unprecedented.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 29, 2016)

FrozenDragon150 said:


> It's not like *NINTENDO *consoles are selling any better than handhelds.



Fix'd


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 29, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> Fix'd


No, he's honestly right. The 3DS has so far outsold the PS4, which is the highest-grossing home console of this generation


----------



## Meteor7 (Aug 29, 2016)

I agree, but the way to make people see its potential is to create games that let them learn the new hardware slowly while directly incentivizing its use. The DS took things slowly in teaching gamers how to make use of a touch screen and it eventually hosted the cult classic The World Ends With You, a hardcore game relying entirely upon the dual screen/touch mechanics. When a difficult game making full use of the hardware's uniqueness came for the WiiU in the form of Starfox, people recoiled at the challenge because the growing pains for the mechanics outweighed the possible fun of using them. I think if the WiiU had the support that the DS had, slowly teaching gamers of a new and uncomfortable mechanic, it would have done much better. As it is, no developers save for Nintendo really saw the potential to evolve gameplay in the WiiU, and when Nintendo pulled out the big guns in a hail Mary, it backfired hard.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> It's the power consumption that's a bigger worry here as the system needs to work for a significant amount of time when undocked to be truly considered portable.


Ahh gotcha.  Recessed area on the back of the console to dock a power bank perhaps?  That's a good 20000+ mAh.  Mad uptime.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 29, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The 3DS has so far outsold the PS4, which is the highest-grossing home console of this generation


well what do you expect when the console only has 3 types of games on it: shooters, racing and sports


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## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> No, he's honestly right. The 3DS has so far outsold the PS4, which is the highest-grossing home console of this generation


It was also released in March 2011 while the PS4 was released in November 2014, so a full 3 years and 8 months prior. It's definitely selling worse compared to the DS, there's no doubt about it - it's around 30 million units short of what the DS sold within the same time frame. To be fair though, the DS was a market anomaly, so I'm not sure how representative that is.


Bladexdsl said:


> well what do you expect when the console only has 3 types of games on it: shooters, racing and sports


At present there isn't a single genre that's not represented on the PS4, I'm not sure what you're talking about.


----------



## Youkai (Aug 29, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> well what do you expect when the console only has 3 types of games on it: shooters, racing and sports



well there ARE awesome RPGs but sadly most of them are Japanese only ^^V



Foxi4 said:


> At present there isn't a single genre that's not represented on the PS4, I'm not sure what you're talking about.



Still he is right that most games for Playstation (and XBOX) are one of these three ... 
and all "good" games that would interesting ppl like me are Japanese only ;(


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Patents drawings are not representative of the final product, a few of Nintendo's controller patents just show an oval with buttons IIRC, so don't you worry about those. As for this whole discussion, it kinda reminds me of the rumour that the 3DS was supposed to be powered by a Tegra chip that was spread around immediately before the system's release. We're speculating like crazy and deep down we all want Nintendo to do something competently, but realistically chances are that they won't. I can't wait for all of this to be proven false when the Big N releases another piece of sh*t system... that we're all gonna rush out for and buy. The cycle continues...


Early dev kits did have tegra chips btw. I think this console has real chances of being amazing with it being modular and all. I look for a picture but it wrote TEG2 on the main chip, this lead people to think it had a tegra.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Early dev kits did have tegra chips btw. I think this console has real chances of being amazing with it being modular and all. I look for a picture but it wrote TEG2 on the main chip, this lead people to think it had a tegra.


So we are told/so it was reported, but there's no actual evidence of that, just some "insider" telling us that was the case. Since I've yet to see one, I'm not going to treat hearsay as evidence. Even if they were based on Tegras, it was probably the bog-standard dev boards since the chip was relatively similar to the custom one they actually intended to use.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 29, 2016)

#


Foxi4 said:


> So we are told/so it was reported, but there's no actual evidence of that, just some "insider" telling us that was the case. Since I've yet to see one, I'm not going to treat hearsay as evidence. Even if they were based on Tegras, it was probably the bog-standard dev boards since the chip was relatively similar to the custom one they actually intended to use.


Yeah they used it as a basis i believe.
Edit: Just noticed something, Nintendo could so something like psnow with all the nvidia tech they could license for streaming. Heres hoping that happens.


----------



## TeamScriptKiddies (Aug 29, 2016)

Team Fail said:


> To be honest, when the Wii U was presented in commercials, it wasn't really shown to be a different console. I think that's what he's trying to say is that they need to actually convey that this is something completely different.
> 
> What about the Sega Saturn launch? I'm pretty sure it has everything else beat by a long shot.



Ya, I'm with you on that one. Even today, most people who don't own a Wii U, misunderstand what it really is. A lot of people still believe its just the original wii with a tablet controller. Nintendo really botched the marketing on the U and that's a big part of the problem. If Nintendo fails to market the NX properly like they did the U, its bound to suffer the same fate. Don't get me wrong, I personally love the Wii U, but numbers don't lie, commercially its a failure. It didn't really penetrate the market. I also have a soft spot for the underdogs as well though, see my sega saturn fan site for proof: www.segasaturnshrine.tk lmao. But seriously, there are some great games for both the U and Saturn alike, but poor business decisions led to both of their early demises...


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 29, 2016)

TeamScriptKiddies said:


> Ya, I'm with you on that one. Even today, most people who don't own a Wii U, misunderstand what it really is. A lot of people still believe its just the original wii with a tablet controller. Nintendo really botched the marketing on the U and that's a big part of the problem. If Nintendo fails to market the NX properly like they did the U, its bound to suffer the same fate. Don't get me wrong, I personally love the Wii U, but numbers don't lie, commercially its a failure. It didn't really penetrate the market. I also have a soft spot for the underdogs as well though, see my sega saturn fan site for proof: www.segasaturnshrine.tk lmao. But seriously, there are some great games for both the U and Saturn alike, but poor business decisions led to both of their early demises...


I wouldnt say the wii u reached an early demise tbh it did get 5 years. give or take a few months.


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Aug 29, 2016)

Yes, but it didn't do so hot within those 5 years... But I think you get what I'm getting at


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## FAST6191 (Aug 29, 2016)

On marketing failures then I am hardly going to laud the efforts of the marketing wonks, especially if the goal was to return a sizeable fraction of the wii crowd* and maybe convince some parents that might want to upgrade their crotch fruit's sega playstation. The wii u console or addon stuff seemed somewhat non existent from the people that followed games and according to people in threads like this constitute a big enough market to matter/sustain a console. The marketing does not excuse the shit specs, dev environments and services available.

*I also feel compelled to mention the drier than a dry thing nature of wii releases for the last few years of its lifetime.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 29, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> On marketing failures then I am hardly going to laud the efforts of the marketing wonks, especially if the goal was to return a sizeable fraction of the wii crowd* and maybe convince some parents that might want to upgrade their crotch fruit's sega playstation. The wii u console or addon stuff seemed somewhat non existent from the people that followed games and according to people in threads like this constitute a big enough market to matter/sustain a console. The marketing does not excuse the shit specs, dev environments and services available.
> 
> *I also feel compelled to mention the drier than a dry thing nature of wii releases for the last few years of its lifetime.


Yeah the wii u was a sad failure but i feel like we'll remember it like the dreamcast, a great crap console.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 29, 2016)

Wii U remembered like the Dreamcast? Not a chance from me. Equally I am not remotely sad about the Wii U's failure and quite happily put it on Nintendo's stupidity or perhaps arrogance rather than some unfortunate timing or a few decisions not going their way, though at the same time the DC maybe only ever stood a ghost of a chance.

The DC had a bunch of titles going for it at the time, did some interesting things for the world of games (and the VMU second screen was probably about as useful as the wii u second screen when all is said and done) and at the time if you were in the position, did something well for multiplatformers. The Wii U is a few first party titles, bayonetta 2 (hardly a standout or entry in an undersaturated gameplay style), and maybe some noticeable but hardly leap forward improvements (compare say Dreamcast Tony Hawk to PS1 Tony Hawk) from the PS360 in the multiplat front, all pretty much obviated by the PSBone having actual leap forward improvements in a lot of cases. If you had somehow missed the PS360 and PC during that time and gone right to the wii u you might have done OK but that is a rather small group.

Time has done well in bringing much of the DC library to more accessible devices, and even improving things along the way, and probably to the point where I would question how useful it might be to some (after Shenmue you have what some fighting games, some decent shmups and maybe a few things of passing interest if you can speak Japanese).


----------



## osirisjem (Aug 29, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> Well before EA blackballed them, they were trying to do that.  Of course not all the blame lies with EA (Nintendo's shit advertising is a prime example), but they were planning a lot of hardcore games.  They put all their chips on EA, and lost.  EA even refused to release a *nearly completed* version of Crysis 3 on the Wii U.  Can you say "vindictive"?
> 
> 
> My money is on the "Wii U They"


EA was smart to not bother with the WiiU.
They wouldn't make enough money with the small installed user base. 

It isn't EA's fault ... It was Nintendo's.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Yeah they used it as a basis i believe.
> Edit: Just noticed something, Nintendo could so something like psnow with all the nvidia tech they could license for streaming. Heres hoping that happens.


Nintendo wouldn't even buy a license for the DVD and BluRay standards when they were all the rage and reinvented the wheel instead for no reason, do you really think they'd pay for a streaming license?


FAST6191 said:


> Wii U remembered like the Dreamcast? Not a chance from me. Equally I am not remotely sad about the Wii U's failure and quite happily put it on Nintendo's stupidity or perhaps arrogance rather than some unfortunate timing or a few decisions not going their way, though at the same time the DC maybe only ever stood a ghost of a chance.
> 
> The DC had a bunch of titles going for it at the time, did some interesting things for the world of games (and the VMU second screen was probably about as useful as the wii u second screen when all is said and done) and at the time if you were in the position, did something well for multiplatformers. The Wii U is a few first party titles, bayonetta 2 (hardly a standout or entry in an undersaturated gameplay style), and maybe some noticeable but hardly leap forward improvements (compare say Dreamcast Tony Hawk to PS1 Tony Hawk) from the PS360 in the multiplat front, all pretty much obviated by the PSBone having actual leap forward improvements in a lot of cases. If you had somehow missed the PS360 and PC during that time and gone right to the wii u you might have done OK but that is a rather small group.
> 
> Time has done well in bringing much of the DC library to more accessible devices, and even improving things along the way, and probably to the point where I would question how useful it might be to some (after Shenmue you have what some fighting games, some decent shmups and maybe a few things of passing interest if you can speak Japanese).


The DC also had a successful launch, so it has that going for it, beyond the obvious "having some third-party support".


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 29, 2016)

osirisjem said:


> EA was smart to not bother with the WiiU.
> They wouldn't make enough money with the small installed user base.
> 
> It isn't EA's fault ... It was Nintendo's.


It was small because EA went back on their word, allegedly because Nintendo wouldn't merge their network with Origin.  Nintendo put all their chips on the "unprecedented partnership", and EA stabbed them in the back.  Refusing to release a game that is almost completed shows that they didn't give a damn about making money.  They lost money because of it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> It was small because EA went back on their word, allegedly because Nintendo wouldn't merge their network with Origin.  Nintendo put all their chips on the "unprecedented partnership", and EA stabbed them in the back.  Refusing to release a game that is almost completed shows that they didn't give a damn about making money.  They lost money because of it.


Integrating cross-network functionality is standard affair these days, Origin is no exception, UPlay works in the same vein. We don't know all the details, but it would seem to me that Nintendo was stonewalling and got their comeuppance - EA games seem to work perfectly fine on the PS4 and the Xbox One. It was EA who was doing Nintendo a favour by offering a partnership, not the other way around. Not that it matters since current gen EA games wouldn't even work on the Wii U anyways, it's falls far too short in terms of specs to support anything beyond the odd FIFA or NBA Live. EA was lucky to bail, otherwise they would've ended up with tremendous losses, just like Ubisoft that stuck around on the sinking ship for as long as they could.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 29, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> and EA stabbed them in the back.  Refusing to release a game that is almost completed shows that they didn't give a damn about making money.  They lost money because of it.



Had the advertising started in earnest? We often see that as a massive component of game production these days, in several cases even exceeding the production budget by a considerable amount. To that end and as much as I would enjoy purely vindictive behaviour being the motive (would spice up the world a bit if companies acted more towards those sorts of things than pure profit) I can also see the cost of port and expected return (for a small market*, especially if they lack side avenues like origin) be worth less than having the cash in hand to use somewhere else, and at the same time pressure someone into a more favourable deal next time and possibly avoid setting a precedent when your online service is not in the strongest position.

*I don't know what we can say about the demographics of Wii U buyers that had Crysis 3 as a major point in its favour, however I am sooner likely to stop laughing as the Watchdogs whiners and take them seriously than I am to consider that a truly viable revenue stream.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Integrating cross-network functionality is standard affair these days, Origin is no exception, UPlay works in the same vein. We don't know all the details, but it would seem to me that Nintendo was stonewalling and got their comeuppance - EA games seem to work perfectly fine on the PS4 and the Xbox One. It was EA who was doing Nintendo a favour by offering a partnership, not the other way around. Not that it matters since current gen EA games wouldn't even work on the Wii U anyways, it's falls far too short in terms of specs to support anything beyond the odd FIFA or NBA Live. EA was lucky to bail, otherwise they would've ended up with tremendous losses, just like Ubisoft that stuck around on the sinking ship for as long as they could.


Once again, it wouldn't have been a sinking ship if EA hadn't blackballed them.

I'm not talking about cross-network functionality.  That exists already.  Origin still works with Nintendo Network, as does does UPlay.  According to the reports, they wanted to completely replace NN with Origin.  That would be a horrible move for Nintendo.

The Wii U could run Crysis 3, so I don't see why it couldn't run other games.  And since we're talking about scaling, let's remember that they made FIFA 14 for the *PS2*, but not the Wii U.  Do you think more people were likely to buy the PS2 copy than a Wii U copy?


FAST6191 said:


> Had the advertising started in earnest? We often see that as a massive component of game production these days, in several cases even exceeding the production budget by a considerable amount. To that end and as much as I would enjoy purely vindictive behaviour being the motive (would spice up the world a bit if companies acted more towards those sorts of things than pure profit) I can also see the cost of port and expected return (for a small market*, especially if they lack side avenues like origin) be worth less than having the cash in hand to use somewhere else, and at the same time pressure someone into a more favourable deal next time and possibly avoid setting a precedent when your online service is not in the strongest position.
> 
> *I don't know what we can say about the demographics of Wii U buyers that had Crysis 3 as a major point in its favour, however I am sooner likely to stop laughing as the Watchdogs whiners and take them seriously than I am to consider that a truly viable revenue stream.


Advertising costs would be zero.  All they had to do was add the Wii U logo to the current trailers.  Crysis 3 came out just a few months after the Wii U.  They had obviously been developing it since before the Wii U was even released.  I understand the Watch Dogs delay (or even a cancellation).  At that point, the Wii U was considered a flop.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

Let's not forget that Nintendo Network exists partly due to EA's input - their experts worked with Nintendo, showing them how to code netcode and build a network that doesn't completely suck. The Wii U's online ecosystem would've been a very different place if not for their contribution since the Big N has almost zero experience in networking - they were the last to jump onto the online train, and no, I'm not going to count the exotic SNES and N64 networks as actual account-based online systems.


----------



## osirisjem (Aug 29, 2016)

So the WiiU sucks because of EA.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Let's not forget that Nintendo Network exists partly due to EA's input - their experts worked with Nintendo, showing them how to code netcode and build a network that doesn't completely suck. The Wii U's online ecosystem would've been a very different place if not for their contribution since the Big N has almost zero experience in networking - they were the last to jump onto the online train, and no, I'm not going to count the exotic SNES and N64 networks as actual account-based online systems.


Source?



osirisjem said:


> So the WiiU sucks because of EA.


I didn't say that.  I said the Wii U failed mostly because of EA.  The secondary reason was they had terrible advertising.  Tons of people thought it was just a new controller for the Wii.  And I would disagree that it sucks.  How you feel about the hardware itself is strictly personal.  I think it could have been a great budget console if not for third party companies bailing after EA blackballed them.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> Once again, it wouldn't have been a sinking ship if EA hadn't blackballed them.
> 
> I'm not talking about cross-network functionality.  That exists already.  Origin still works with Nintendo Network, as does does UPlay.  According to the reports, they wanted to completely replace NN with Origin.  That would be a horrible move for Nintendo.
> 
> The Wii U could run Crysis 3, so I don't see why it couldn't run other games.  And since we're talking about scaling, let's remember that they made FIFA 14 for the *PS2*, but not the Wii U.  Do you think more people were likely to buy the PS2 copy than a Wii U copy?


PS2, on account of Brazil and other developing countries in which the PS2 is still top dog to this day. It would've sank either way because the titles EA makes did not appeal to the Wii U's core demographic - all of EA's blockbusters, including Batman, Mass Effect 3 and Need for Speed: Most Wanted flopped despite being, for all intents and purposes, the definitive console versions of the games at the time. The same can be said about Ubisoft's and Activision's games, EA was just smart to pull out when they did. As far as scaling is concerned, the FIFA you play on the PS2 is most certainly not the FIFA you play on the PS4, I'll tell you that much. There is absolutely no way the Wii U could pull off some of the modern releases from the PS4 or the Xbox One, those platforms are orders of magnitude beefier and they have problems maintaining 1080p @ 60 FPS, or 30 FPS for that matter. If you think the Wii U could do any better with its puny 2GB RAM, a PPC7xx that's outdated by a decade and its weak Radeon HD look-alike, you're living in Kirby's Dream Land. Not everything is as easily scalable as Call of Duty, and even the latest CoD had to release without a single player campaign on last gens since they had too little juice to support the maps and the AI.


JoostinOnline said:


> Source?


The source is the exact same rumour you're referencing in regards to Nintendo Network becoming a part of the Origin ecosystem, which initially started on Reddit as far as I know.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-/63629803

Naturally none of this is confirmed and it's all hearsay from a friend of a friend, but I've heard numerous sources claiming that EA was heavily involved in the creation of Nintendo Network as Nintendo themselves didn't know what the hell they were doing and they were impressed with EA's netcode on the Wii, so they went straight to them for council. The result of that relationship was an "unprecedented partnership" they announced at E3, but that eventually fell through as EA was too greedy and Nintendo was grandstanding instead of coming up with some sort of compromise. To be fair though, had they continued to make games for the Wii U, it would lower the bar for every other system as the games would have to be compatible with the lowest common denominator.

Of course this could all be bullshit, we'll never know what really happened. Chances are it was much simpler than that and ultimately it probably came down to money - EA games didn't sell well on the platform and there were no signs of the situation ever improving, so they just pulled the plug on any future endeavours, as they have with the PSVita - welcome to business.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 29, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> PS2, on account of Brazil and other developing countries in which the PS2 is still top dog to this day. It would've sank either way because the titles EA makes did not appeal to the Wii U's core demographic - all of EA's blockbusters, including Batman, Mass Effect 3 and Need for Speed: Most Wanted flopped despite being, for all intents and purposes, the definitive console versions of the games at the time. The same can be said about Ubisoft's and Activision's games, EA was just smart to pull out when they did. As far as scaling is concerned, the FIFA you play on the PS2 is most certainly not the FIFA you play on the PS4, I'll tell you that much. There is absolutely no way the Wii U could pull off some of the modern releases from the PS4 or the Xbox One, those platforms are orders of magnitude beefier and they have problems maintaining 1080p @ 60 FPS, or 30 FPS for that matter. If you think the Wii U could do any better with its puny 2GB RAM, a PPC7xx that's outdated by a decade and its weak Radeon HD look-alike, you're living in Kirby's Dream Land. Not everything is as easily scalable as Call of Duty, and even the latest CoD had to release without a single player campaign on last gens since they had too little juice to support the maps and the AI.



You're continuing to mix up how the Wii U turned out, and what it could have been.  I'm talking strictly about the latter.
I never said that it could be as good as the PS4 or X1 versions.  It did come out on the Wii IIRC.  Porting to a console that uses the same processor is incredibly easy.

The games you listed were just ports of old games.  Expecting them to be popular on any console is just ridiculous.
I point you back to Crysis 3.  There was nowhere to go but up on that.  They lost every penny spent on making the Wii U version, just because they wouldn't let Nintendo release it.
If you really think that EA's quick change from overwhelming praise of the console to disgust was because they wanted to make money, I think you're naive.  In my opinion, if you go out of your way to prevent a console's success at millions of dollars to your own expense, you're not focusing on the money.  But let's just agree to disagree.

Edit: I don't have the link anymore, but the original source wasn't from Reddit.  It was an anonymous interview.  That's why I pointed out it was alleged.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 29, 2016)

I don't know if I could argue for a zero or negligible advertising and (I will tack on) production costs, assuming the thing was ready to go gold. I guess some games have gone out with little to no advertising at all in the past and some incidental could have worked (they then ignoring any Nintendo/Wii U specific advertising channels) but whether it would have made sense here I do not know. Equally I would say you are maybe undervaluing having a boot to Nintendo's throat, and being able to say you stood tall when it came to your somewhat struggling online service. I might also want to see their internal projections, the wii u was an obvious failure very soon after launch but it might have been predicted at some level.

EA are certainly bastards if what I care about is games but I can not fault them for anything here.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 29, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> You're continuing to mix up how the Wii U turned out, and what it could have been.  I'm talking strictly about the latter.
> I never said that it could be as good as the PS4 or X1 versions.  It did come out on the Wii IIRC.  Porting to a console that uses the same processor is incredibly easy.
> 
> The games you listed were just ports of old games.  Expecting them to be popular on any console is just ridiculous.
> ...


Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree, because you're the naive one, not me. Re-releases or not, those were quality titles that were both well-worth buying and still relatively popular. Crisis 3 ran on the PS3, I don't know why you're using it as some gold standard of engineering - it's not. It was when it was new, maybe, but most definitely not now. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be able to run games as well as the PS4 and the XBO, I'm saying that it wouldn't run them, period, not unless sub-HD @ sub-30 FPS is considered acceptable now.

Let me repeat what I actually stated instead of what you inferred - the PS4 and the XBO are sweating bullets running modern games at the bare minimum settings, so much so that both companies are releasing mid-stream upgrades for their systems, and they're several times more powerful than the Wii U. Thinking the Wii U would have any chance at competing is just silly, it'd need severely bogged down, castrated versions of the games, if it'd support them at all, just like the Wii did. When the PS3/360 got Far Cry 1-4, the Wii got Far Cry: Vengeance - you go ahead and play that, then tell me if specs gaps like this are healthy for game development.

By the way, it's not just EA who refused to support developers - according to Alex Ward, a former boss of Criterion, Nintendo didn't "give a sh*t" about NFS:MW either, despite him coming in to their HQ to demo the game personally, which is why he's not interested in Wii U development or cooperating with Nintendo.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...issues_with_releasing_need_for_speed_on_wii_u

A sensible platform owner would probably approach EA and say "you have a good game going on, let's make this happen" - not Nintendo, even though they were in dire need of AAA content. Now he has his own studio and he's never coming back - you burn third-party devs, you don't get third-party support.


FAST6191 said:


> I don't know if I could argue for a zero or negligible advertising and (I will tack on) production costs, assuming the thing was ready to go gold. I guess some games have gone out with little to no advertising at all in the past and some incidental could have worked (they then ignoring any Nintendo/Wii U specific advertising channels) but whether it would have made sense here I do not know. Equally I would say you are maybe undervaluing having a boot to Nintendo's throat, and being able to say you stood tall when it came to your somewhat struggling online service. I might also want to see their internal projections, the wii u was an obvious failure very soon after launch but it might have been predicted at some level.
> 
> EA are certainly bastards if what I care about is games but I can not fault them for anything here.


Can we also stop pretending that logistics are free? Getting the games pressed, getting the artwork done, having the game reevaluated by ESRB and PEGI for a new platform, getting the packaging and then sending it all across the globe, along with some POS material for stores, is  not free. Even if the game was just distributed digitally, there are server costs involved, as well as advertising. It wasn't a matter of "hey, we're done, here it is", it doesn’t work that way. And what about the outstanding costs of keeping the game online? Who's going to pay for the multiplayer servers for a game nobody's going to buy? There's a lot to think about here.


Youkai said:


> Still he is right that most games for Playstation (and XBOX) are one of these three ...
> and all "good" games that would interesting ppl like me are Japanese only ;(


Sony offers the most Japanese garbage RPG's out of all of the big three, the stuff you can find on PSN ranges from incompetent to cringeworthy, it's perfect for weebs!


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## osirisjem (Aug 29, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> I said the Wii U failed mostly because of EA.


EA had little to no impact on the Wii U as a failure.

The Wii U failed because it was a failed premise.


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## FrozenDragon150 (Aug 29, 2016)

osirisjem said:


> EA had little to no impact on the Wii U as a failure.
> 
> The Wii U failed because it was badly marketed and received few quality games on too spread time periods.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 29, 2016)

Bad marketing seems to be a crutch or a cop-out but I don't want to go there again.

"few games too far apart"
So unless Nintendo was going to make them themselves (not impossible with the funds they apparently have in the bank if they went on a buying spree for game devs but a very risky business plan) they get to provide the platform, just like basically every successful platform in history (certainly all of Nintendo's truly successful ones) and certainly in multi person/high expense/long form entertainment. They failed to provide a platform as attractive as the competition, now it is not impossible for a failed platform from a big vendor to be providing a ground for someone (I once heard a story of I think it was a nook* developer that was basically the only one playing -- Christmas rolls around and it has failed, them being basically the only game in town and pumping out boring educational games made them a tidy sum from those parents which picked wrongly and that wanted to get a tiny bit of value from the device) but this is not that.

*an ereader from a popular book seller before the kindle grabbed the market, and then tablets rendered that pointless for most.

Or if you prefer too few games is a symptom and not the disease.


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Aug 30, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> On marketing failures then I am hardly going to laud the efforts of the marketing wonks, especially if the goal was to return a sizeable fraction of the wii crowd* and maybe convince some parents that might want to upgrade their crotch fruit's sega playstation. The wii u console or addon stuff seemed somewhat non existent from the people that followed games and according to people in threads like this constitute a big enough market to matter/sustain a console. The marketing does not excuse the shit specs, dev environments and services available.
> 
> *I also feel compelled to mention the drier than a dry thing nature of wii releases for the last few years of its lifetime.


The dev stuff is actually really good if you're doing it officially. They're even noob friendly. For anyone doing homebrew on a closed platform of course dev is hard, but Nintendo is very supportive of third party and independent developers alike. They've even made it super simple for just about anyone to become licensed (of course that's super recent, but still).


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## FAST6191 (Aug 30, 2016)

It might be a nice compiler and IDE (ones I saw in the past looked functional enough for the time and the continued to buy in good things for it so I can well believe that), possibly even some reference libraries (I have pulled apart my share of games and seen the results of said formats so again I can well believe it). I was thinking more like the unreal peeps saying meh, several of the other middleware people saying meh, the online/system offerings not being up to much (though I am not inclined to let the splatoon devs off for the drivel they spoke about voice chat it should have also been an OS level service really) and looking at what Ubisoft said when ZombiU was done and dusted.
Also though I agree it is easier now it is still with a nice NDA and such like. So perhaps easier than MS and Sony, at least since MS' XDA stuff was shuttered/fell apart and whatever happened for the Vita spluttered and died, but if the competition is going to be PC, android, apple's offerings and the like then it is not even close.
Or if you prefer MS once famously said "developers, developers, developers" and won many things because of it, Nintendo said "ner ner ner ner ner I'm the king of the castle" and might well have still had a nice castle, however while they were not looking everybody else had invented and was playing with guns and jet planes...

All that said environment might have been the wrong word, what with IDE being a popular term, perhaps ecosystem would have been a better choice.


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## EmulateLife (Aug 30, 2016)

Wii U is a failure regardless of how it happened it happened I don't think anyone could argue against it being a failure. From the name Wii U to the sales and the marketing all terrible.

But I think NX will be very different. It's supposed to be the power of Xbox One and if you could take Xbox One quality graphics with you as a handheld I think a lot of people will have interest in that. Take two a huge software publisher who has never really paid much attention to Nintendo systems overall is praising it. I think a console/handheld hybrid is the only place for Nintendo to go because they can't out power PS4 or Scorpio but they will offer something those systems can't. I think there will be no shortage of 3rd party support because Nintendo has dominated the handheld market since Game Boy. I believe this will be a huge success.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 30, 2016)

That's the same guy who said the Wii U was going to be great and with third party support, now look at it. It's a dog's turd.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 31, 2016)

your repeating the same mistakes already reg by not revealing the fucking thing!


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## the_randomizer (Aug 31, 2016)

The Wii U was a mess, yes, it has good games, the console was badly marketed, third parties alienated, it's one helluva mess.


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## vbkun (Aug 31, 2016)

"Reggie Fils-Aimé explains how Nintendo will not repeat Wii U mistakes for the NX"...
and I'm happy because either Santa or the Easter bunny will get me an NX > D


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## FAST6191 (Aug 31, 2016)

I have no problem with father christmas, we do OK but now I hear this easter bunny bastard has been cheaping out on me all these years and just bringing some hollow chocolate eggs.

There is going to be rabbit stew going on now.


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## flame1234 (Aug 31, 2016)

I understood the Wii U was unique. I wasn't sure it would offer a good gameplay experience.
Wii U was a system with a weird quirk.
The NX looks more like a system with a cool feature - it's both a portable and a home console in one. No idea if that's really the case, but at least it sounds cool.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 31, 2016)

flame1234 said:


> The NX looks more like a system with a cool feature - it's both a portable and a home console in one. No idea if that's really the case, but at least it sounds cool.


We (the public) have not even seen how the system looks like or if it's like the media's saying it's going to be.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 1, 2016)

reggie...


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## Youkai (Sep 1, 2016)

Funny how everyone is either "Wii U was shit" or "Wii U was only bad marketed" which one is it now ?
If it was only because of the marketing I guess it would be some kind of hidden gem even though I don't think it is XD
For me it has nothing to do with marketing but more about forcing their weird "inventions" on us without ever asking if someone wants that.

They didn't care for Gamers and tried to win over all those Casuals (which makes kind of sense but didn't seem to work out as much as they wanted) now many Gamers are pissed at Nintendo and the Casual players don't care ... enough of them still buy a Playstation for their Fifa, Madden, NBA, Icehokey and whatever there is ...


They should do something "normal" and than make those gimmicks as extras that you can buy if you want ... like giving the option to buy some weird motion control stuff if you feel the need to but do not force it on people, it is like if they would force you to use the 3d on the 3ds (I hardly ever use it)


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 1, 2016)

Youkai said:


> Funny how everyone is either "Wii U was shit" or "Wii U was only bad marketed" which one is it now


hahahahahahah


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Sep 1, 2016)

Youkai said:


> Funny how everyone is either "Wii U was shit" or "Wii U was only bad marketed" which one is it now ?


It's both. As the years passed by, less and less games started being released to the point of now, in 2016, there being barely any worth buying and playing. 2017? Only Zelda and that's it apparently.

Wii U is good for collectors but I'm a gamer not a hoarder of crap.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 1, 2016)

I was going to question whether you can sell a bad product, or at least a seriously underperforming product, with good marketing and then I remembered those Beats headphones and music players exist.

I would have loved to have seen that for the Wii U actually, though I suppose we kind of did with the N64... and actually that was and continues to be hilarious.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 1, 2016)

Youkai said:


> Funny how everyone is either "Wii U was shit" or "Wii U was only bad marketed" which one is it now ?
> If it was only because of the marketing I guess it would be some kind of hidden gem even though I don't think it is XD
> For me it has nothing to do with marketing but more about forcing their weird "inventions" on us without ever asking if someone wants that.
> 
> ...


Actually I'd say it _is _a hidden gem, but that's just my opinion


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Sep 1, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Can we also stop pretending that logistics are free? Getting the games pressed, getting the artwork done, having the game reevaluated by ESRB and PEGI for a new platform, getting the packaging and then sending it all across the globe, along with some POS material for stores, is  not free. Even if the game was just distributed digitally, there are server costs involved, as well as advertising. It wasn't a matter of "hey, we're done, here it is", it doesn’t work that way. And what about the outstanding costs of keeping the game online? Who's going to pay for the multiplayer servers for a game nobody's going to buy? There's a lot to think about here.



This right here /\. A lot of people don't realize that there are a lot of sunk costs put into game development, Even for indie devs (of course AAA developers have much higher ones but they also have a lot more money to throw around help cover the costs). From a business prospective you simply don't make something just for the sake of making it, especially when you invest a lot of money into it. You're hoping to make a return on said investment, this includes not just monetary costs, but also loads of time. EA walked away from the the Wii U, because they were worried they wouldn't make a return on their investment, plain and simple. We can sit here and speculate the exact details of why they were worried and why they "jumped ship" all day long, but at the end of the day, ultimately it boils down to money. They're in business to make money, not lose it.

Believe me, I would love to see new EA titles on the Wii U, even though the hardware isn't as good as ps4/xbone and they have to dumb stuff down, but if its not worth it to EA, they aren't going to do it.


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## grossaffe (Sep 1, 2016)

TeamScriptKiddies said:


> This right here /\. A lot of people don't realize that there are a lot of sunk costs put into game development, Even for indie devs (of course AAA developers have much higher ones but they also have a lot more money to throw around help cover the costs). From a business prospective you simply don't make something just for the sake of making it, especially when you invest a lot of money into it. You're hoping to make a return on said investment, this includes not just monetary costs, but also loads of time. EA walked away from the the Wii U, because they were worried they wouldn't make a return on their investment, plain and simple. We can sit here and speculate the exact details of why they were worried and why they "jumped ship" all day long, but at the end of the day, ultimately it boils down to money. They're in business to make money, not lose it.
> 
> Believe me, I would love to see new EA titles on the Wii U, even though the hardware isn't as good as ps4/xbone and they have to dumb stuff down, but if its not worth it to EA, they aren't going to do it.


EA seemed rather vindictive, though.  They went from "unprecedented relationship" and praising the Wii U to calling the console shit before it had a chance to sink or float.


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## Jayro (Sep 2, 2016)

I just want to play games without bullshit gimmicks and free online play. Sadly, only the PC and 3DS offer that.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 2, 2016)

Jayro said:


> I just want to play games without bullshit gimmicks and free online play. Sadly, only the PC and 3DS offer that.


The 3DS was built around a gimmick though.


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## marmalade (Sep 2, 2016)

the wii U was sort of an awkward system that never fully defined itself from the wii, or on its own

NX will hopefully do better with this


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Sep 2, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> EA seemed rather vindictive, though.  They went from "unprecedented relationship" and praising the Wii U to calling the console shit before it had a chance to sink or float.


Sales on the Wii U was terrible for EA and other third party publishers so it was wise of them to ditch it altogether. For all the flak everyone gives Ubisoft, they were the ones who most supported the Wii U in terms of third party games that were also being released on other platforms. I supported them but one person isn't going to make a difference for a company to keep producing.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 2, 2016)

speaking of EA there was an article on ign about ea praising the neo/scorpio and how it's going to revolutionize the industry. funny they never mentioned the NX ONCE


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## grossaffe (Sep 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Sales on the Wii U was terrible for EA and other third party publishers so it was wise of them to ditch it altogether. For all the flak everyone gives Ubisoft, they were the ones who most supported the Wii U in terms of third party games that were also being released on other platforms. I supported them but one person isn't going to make a difference for a company to keep producing.


My post was referring to the time before the Wii U's fate was settled, and referring to not just the lack of games from EA, but public statements made from them.  They publicly shat all over Nintendo, and that is not 'just business'; that is pure spite.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Sep 2, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> speaking of EA there was an article on ign about ea praising the neo/scorpio and how it's going to revolutionize the industry. funny they never mentioned the NX ONCE


Recently became aware that EA's Bioware team has a racist scumbag so it's not much of a loss they've distanced from Nintendo. In fact, the best games published by EA are all in the past anyway.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Recently became aware that EA's Bioware team has a racist scumbag so it's not much of a loss they've distanced from Nintendo. In fact, the best games published by EA are all in the past anyway.


Curious. I have obviously seen people not care for an artist after a distasteful act but I have not seen this for a game developer, much less just a team member.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 2, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Nintendo wouldn't even buy a license for the DVD and BluRay standards when they were all the rage and reinvented the wheel instead for no reason, do you really think they'd pay for a streaming license?
> The DC also had a successful launch, so it has that going for it, beyond the obvious "having some third-party support".


Tegra comes with streaming capabilities so yeah.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Sep 2, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Curious. I have obviously seen people not care for an artist after a distasteful act but I have not seen this for a game developer, much less just a team member.


If it affects the game's story and etc then that's something to consider.


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