# [UPDATE] Amazon is restricting sales of used first-party Nintendo games and products



## NoNAND (Nov 1, 2019)

*knock* *knock* hello there pirated/modded copies and first gen vulnerable switches.


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## b17bomber (Nov 1, 2019)

Be careful what you wish for when Gamestop and your local used bookstores go out of business.


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## x65943 (Nov 1, 2019)

The used market hurts Nintendo and Amazon's bottom line

Of course they will want to restrict it

This is the problem with online monopolies


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## ChaosEternal (Nov 1, 2019)

x65943 said:


> The used market hurts Nintendo and Amazon's bottom line
> 
> Of course they will want to restrict it
> 
> This is the problem with online monopolies


Banning the used market helps Nintendo's bottom line, but the move only helps Amazon's bottom line if enough people switch to buying new games. They might lose money instead if those people just continue buying used games somewhere else.


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## 8BitWonder (Nov 1, 2019)

Hello again, EBay my old friend...


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## x65943 (Nov 1, 2019)

ChaosEternal said:


> It hurts Nintendo's bottom line, but it only helps Amazon's if they make more money from people buying new games instead of used. They might lose money if those people just buy used games somewhere else.


I made two assumptions
1. Amazon earns a fixed percent from sale of items 
2. Majority of people who shop for games on Amazon will not look elsewhere

I suppose an alternative could be pressure from Nintendo - but I doubt Nintendo has that much negotiating power


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## ChaosEternal (Nov 1, 2019)

x65943 said:


> I made two assumptions
> 1. Amazon earns a fixed percent from sale of items
> 2. Majority of people who shop for games on Amazon will not look elsewhere
> 
> I suppose an alternative could be pressure from Nintendo - but I doubt Nintendo has that much negotiating power


If those assumptions are true, then you're definitely right. I wonder if any surveys have been done to find out what price difference will trigger people to switch stores.


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## wurstpistole (Nov 1, 2019)

Switch bootleg games?
Did I miss something completely or since when can any Switch run some kind of physical copy of a gamecart?


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## raxadian (Nov 1, 2019)

People will just use a different online selling stuff service.


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## James_ (Nov 1, 2019)

_stares at eBay_


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## Arras (Nov 1, 2019)

wurstpistole said:


> Switch bootleg games?
> Did I miss something completely or since when can any Switch run some kind of physical copy of a gamecart?


Amazon doesn't just sell switch games. For a highly bootlegged example, https://www.amazon.com/slp/pokemon-gba-games/c7st2qogcm8zcbj.


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## Chary (Nov 1, 2019)

wurstpistole said:


> Switch bootleg games?
> Did I miss something completely or since when can any Switch run some kind of physical copy of a gamecart?


Here's a bootleg Switch Pro controller.

Bootleg GBA 1000-in-1.

There's many more like it


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## HRudyPlayZ (Nov 1, 2019)

I still see the used switch offers though... and i took a look at amazon.com.
If they do ban used sales, it will be illegal in some countries, including France and i have no doubt someone will take an action.


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## bobmcjr (Nov 1, 2019)

Makes sense. Used games are almost as much competition as ROMs to Nintendo's current titles. Didn't they fight used game sales/rentals back in the 90's? Legally they failed, but now they found a company that's enough of a corporate bitch to do their bidding. Woohoo. Large corporations.

If Nintendo actually wanted to fight bootlegs they should meet the demand people have for older games instead of basically banning people from buying them. Bootlegs aren't going anywhere, this will just harm legitimate resales.


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## kevin corms (Nov 1, 2019)

Calm down nintendo, this sort of stuff does more harm then good.


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## DJPlace (Nov 1, 2019)

wow that's dumb this hurts people a lot.


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## GhostLatte (Nov 1, 2019)

*laughs in eBay*


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## pedro702 (Nov 1, 2019)

tbh amazon so far unless you get a good deal new its usualy cheaper on ebay to buy used, but that is for me because my country doesnt have an amazon store so shipping on amazon is always more expensive than shipping on ebay for me.


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## phillyrider807 (Nov 1, 2019)

Welp back to ebay or more importantly, Dhgate.

I have 2 "knockoff" switch pro controllers and 1 knockoff wii u pro controller and compared to the official ones they are every bit as good besides lacking the ability to use amiibos(which i never use anyway)

Saving over 40$ for the exact controller is amazing. Sure i'll miss amazon 2 day shipping but to think this will suddenly make me buy official products is laughable.

But yea im assuming this is because of how popular the "knockoff" controllers became. I don't know of any "bootleg games" how would those even run on patched consoles?


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## pedro702 (Nov 1, 2019)

phillyrider807 said:


> Welp back to ebay or more importantly, Dhgate.
> 
> I have 2 "knockoff" switch pro controllers and 1 knockoff wii u pro controller and compared to the official ones they are every bit as good besides lacking the ability to use amiibos(which i never use anyway)
> 
> ...


bootleg gbc,ds,gba,n64,snes,nes games run fine but yeah no more bootlegs on any console besides those 6. for  wii,switch and such is the bootleg controllers listed as nintendo ones, that is full of them, same on ebay.


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## phillyrider807 (Nov 1, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> bootleg gbc,ds,gba,n64,snes,nes games run fine but yeah no more bootlegs on any console besides those 6. for  wii,switch and such is the bootleg controllers listed as nintendo ones, that is full of them, same on ebay.



Ahh ok that makes sense! I do recall bootleg ds pokemon games being sold on amazon. Like the rom hacks being inserted into actual carts


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## b17bomber (Nov 1, 2019)

I wonder if this has anything to do with Team-Xecuter's new exploit and them making yet another switch revision.


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## wurstpistole (Nov 1, 2019)

Arras said:


> Amazon doesn't just sell switch games. For a highly bootlegged example, https://www.amazon.com/slp/pokemon-gba-games/c7st2qogcm8zcbj.





Chary said:


> Here's a bootleg Switch Pro controller.
> 
> Bootleg GBA 1000-in-1.
> 
> There's many more like it


Ah.
I automatically thought of Switch only, not the older titles.


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## Teletron1 (Nov 1, 2019)

I thought this was going to be about the price gouging on Nintendo products like Switch games and current Amiibos .. damn amazon and its knock offs


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## chartube12 (Nov 1, 2019)

Amazon still lacks a general license to officially sale Nintendo stuff officially. So maybe Nintendo got their lawyers involved to stretch it to 3rd party sellers?


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## xbmcuser (Nov 1, 2019)

Looks like a deal has been done, Amazon Prime members get upto a year of 
*Nintendo Switch Online through Twitch Prime*

request amazon to ban selling pre owned games. Hope nintendo get it in the neck

The courts should look at this, it looks illegal.


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## Chainhunter (Nov 1, 2019)

xbmcuser said:


> Looks like a deal has been done, Amazon Prime members get upto a year of
> *Nintendo Switch Online through Twitch Prime*
> 
> request amazon to ban selling pre owned games. Hope nintendo get it in the neck
> ...



Yep, same thoughts here.


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## Jayro (Nov 1, 2019)

Wow, eBay just gained a shitload of used game sales. Nice job shooting yourselves in the foot, Amazon.


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## ShadowOne333 (Nov 1, 2019)

Keep it going, Nintendo.
Keep showing how you don't give a fuck about your consumers.

I can understand the bootleg thing, but I don't see Nintendo offering long gone GBA or SNES carts anymore, what do they expect? There's no way any bootleg game is hurting Nintendo in the current gen, there's no Switch flashcard or reproduction Switch cartridges, so that's bullshit. If they don't offer a solution to physical gaming, then of course others will. And the idiotic Switch Online Service doesn't count here, I'm not gonna pay for 20 or so games from the hundreds of games each console has in its library which have not been available officially in decades.

They only thing they are hurting here is the consumer with it, and I'm surprised Amazon went through with this. The consumer has the right to do whatever the fuck the consumer wants with the product they purchased, it's law and a protection to the consumer as well against bullshit policies like the ones Nintendo likes to strike again and again. 
And now they are restricting the consumer from re-selling what they purchase? What the fuck?

I get it's not the only option to purchase online (and thank the fucking gods for that), but really Nintendo is doing really shady shit that only benefits them, and only them, while not caring at all for their fans and consumers.

Really, Nintendo is just claiming for their asses to get fucked in a big way, and I do hope I get to live to see that day. Will serve them right for how they are treating their fanbase and consumers.


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## raxadian (Nov 1, 2019)

One wonders the hypocrisy since they are still selling bootleg Nintendo stuff.


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## DarthDub (Nov 1, 2019)

It's a good thing that Amazon isn't the only online site to buy stuff from.


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## ChaosEternal (Nov 1, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> The consumer has the right to do whatever the fuck the consumer wants with the product they purchased, it's law and a protection to the consumer as well against bullshit policies like the ones Nintendo likes to strike again and again.
> And now they are restricting the consumer from re-selling what they purchase? What the fuck?


Do you have a right to force Amazon to allow you to sell whatever you own? Can I sue them for not allowing me to sell prescriptions drugs or guns on Amazon? I'm disappointed to see them removing used Nintendo games, but I don't think my rights are being infringed by them doing so.


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## tech3475 (Nov 1, 2019)

Are they enacting this kind of policy elsewhere? Because Amazon has been criticised for selling bootleg products before.

A while back I found out through the BBC about some dodgy CO detectors which I had to contact Amazon about before being told about the recall. 

If not, it sounds like Nintendo pulling the strings.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 1, 2019)

I shall echo the dick move thing, though it is far from the first time Amazon has dabbled in a bit of market manipulation (was watching a video a while back where they blocked people from selling a fancy version of monopoly that was popular that year). In some ways a bit of a pity as I did quite often like amazon as a quick price lookup for second hand things.

Re: Ebay that is still one of the shit tier online second hand tat merchants, though I suppose that is the sentiment.


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## Madridi (Nov 1, 2019)

8BitWonder said:


> Hello again, EBay my old friend...


eBay now also adds mandatory tax to most states. How stupid is that?


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 1, 2019)

Madridi said:


> eBay now also adds mandatory tax to most states. How stupid is that?


Europe sounds unaffected as that always was the case same as Amazon. 

Hello again, EBay my old friend in Europe?


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## godreborn (Nov 1, 2019)

I think I have one of those bootlegs.  the poi game I bought from ebay though.  it says USA on it, and the guy claimed to have bought it in the US.  however, I couldn't redeem coins for it as it said it was the wrong region. also, I bought the game digitally from the US store, and the digital game and the retail one are shown separately on the home menu.  my digital save doesn't work with the retail version.  I started off buying retail, then went digital due to my health (afraid of dropping the system while changing carts).  anyway, all digital and retail games from the same region share the same tile.


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## Xzi (Nov 1, 2019)

Interesting.  I had no idea this was going on since I only buy new games from Amazon, used from eBay.  I think people should be able to sell stuff like reproduction SNES carts on Amazon, but only if they're clearly labeled as such.  A lot of times originals are in very short supply and very expensive, after all.


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## HideoKojima (Nov 1, 2019)

I never buy used from Amazon I use ebay, am I the only one?


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 1, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I think people should be able to sell stuff like reproduction SNES carts on Amazon.


Wouldn't that be straight out piracy?


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## godreborn (Nov 1, 2019)

@Xzi , I had no idea either, but now that cart makes sense for me.  I even called Nintendo about it, because I was trying to redeem coins.  they gave me the coins anyway.  though, it had already been past the 1 year mark, but I guess incorrect region supersedes the coin deadline.  it actually said that the account wasn't the right region to redeem the coins.  I'm going to start selling my 17-20 retail games soon, and I hope that that game doesn't cause me problems when going to resell it.  iirc, the poi I got was shrink wrapped too like it was new.


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## Xzi (Nov 1, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> Wouldn't that be straight out piracy?


It's a grey area, unclear whether sellers are profiting from the ROM itself or from the hardware which houses it.  Nintendo doesn't seem to go after any of the people selling reproductions on eBay, though, and there are a number of businesses/individuals who specialize in that.


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## vice350z (Nov 1, 2019)

Apparently it was a mistake. I'm new so i can't posts links but The Verge has a story on it. An email sent "by mistake"


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## OrGoN3 -- UPDATE (Nov 1, 2019)

Here ya go! https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...-sales-of-nintendo-products-without-approval/


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## FAST6191 (Nov 1, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's a grey area, unclear whether sellers are profiting from the ROM itself or from the hardware which houses it.  Nintendo doesn't seem to go after any of the people selling reproductions on eBay, though, and there are a number of businesses/individuals who specialize in that.


I don't see it.

The closest you would get to things like that are those "sale of weed is illegal in this state, but this club you can join for free has $8 cans of fizzy pop" but those are not really analogous to anything here.

This however... out and out paid for piracy. You tend not to be able to erase the carts or do much of anything with them save for play the game so there is not even the tissue thin (in this case) like additional debugging, general homebrew or "substantial non infringing uses" that emulators, flash carts and mod chips can often go with.


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## osaka35 (Nov 1, 2019)

Weird, @Chary , they changed course. 24 hours after, they just went "oops, our bad" and reinstated all the listings. thanks for the heads up OrGoN3.


what tomfoolery is this, amazon?


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## godreborn (Nov 1, 2019)

I'm definitely happy, 'cause I've gotta sell my games at some point.  it would be horrible to have wasted that much money on retail games when I have their digital counterparts.


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## Xzi (Nov 1, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> This however... out and out paid for piracy. You tend not to be able to erase the carts or do much of anything with them save for play the game so there is not even the tissue thin (in this case) like additional debugging, general homebrew or "substantial non infringing uses" that emulators, flash carts and mod chips can often go with.


I figure it doesn't really matter to Nintendo because they see the same $0 whether people buy original carts used, play ROMs on an emulator, or buy reproduction carts.  It'd be a very different scenario if they were still manufacturing old games in a physical format themselves, but again, it's often the case that original carts can be hard/impossible to find.  Especially at a reasonable price.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 1, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I figure it doesn't really matter to Nintendo because they see the same $0 whether people buy original carts used, play ROMs on an emulator, or buy reproduction carts.  It'd be a very different scenario if they were still manufacturing old games in a physical format themselves, but again, it's often the case that some original carts can be hard/impossible to find.  Especially at a reasonable price.


Conflating second hand reselling with piracy is bad form. Don't encourage people to more readily make the comparison. Not to mention they themselves have suggested people go on the second hand market at times.

Similarly they are often still selling those titles in essentially the same form on virtual consoles and emulator packs, not that copyright cares much.


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## Xzi (Nov 1, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Conflating second hand reselling with piracy is bad form. Don't encourage people to more readily make the comparison. Not to mention they themselves have suggested people go on the second hand market at times.


I'm not conflating them myself, just saying that it's all the same from Nintendo's perspective.  It certainly doesn't HAVE to be that way, they could make massive profits from limited re-releases of physical games every 15-20 years, but I digress.



FAST6191 said:


> Similarly they are often still selling those titles in essentially the same form on virtual consoles and emulator packs, not that copyright cares much.


Sure, and there's always stuff like SNES Classic, but it's just not the same as having original hardware/physical cartridges.  All but one or two of my carts are originals, but expecting me to spend upward of $100 on certain individual SNES games is rather unreasonable.


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## Sheimi (Nov 1, 2019)

OrGoN3 said:


> Here ya go! https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...-sales-of-nintendo-products-without-approval/


Yeah, still gonna go on Ebay for used games.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 1, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I'm not conflating them myself, just saying that it's all the same from Nintendo's perspective.  It certainly doesn't HAVE to be that way, they could make massive profits from re-releases of physical games every 15-20 years, but I digress.
> 
> 
> Sure, and there's always stuff like SNES Classic, but it's just not the same as having original hardware/physical cartridges.  All but one or two of my carts are originals


I don't know how hard spinning up such things would be, and I don't know if we have seen any other devs that still own their copyrights do this sort of thing (and we have seen some release emulator hardware of sorts) or if they have then it seems to have failed to set the world on fire. Similarly I am sure Nintendo would argue that scarcity is a selling factor for their new offerings and direct competition to it. You stand in front of a judge and say "it does not feel the same" and you would be laughed at.


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## DarthDub (Nov 1, 2019)

I wonder why Amazon goofed like that?


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## Xzi (Nov 1, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Similarly I am sure Nintendo would argue that scarcity is a selling factor for their new offerings and direct competition to it. You stand in front of a judge and say "it does not feel the same" and you would be laughed at.


That's the thing: Nintendo isn't arguing this case, and nobody is front of a judge.  If anything, they'd go after the people selling reproduction cartridges, not the people buying them, and they haven't done that.  It's not as if this is even remotely a new practice, either.  I remember seeing reproductions on eBay as far back as 10 or 15 years ago.

For whatever reason, it just doesn't draw Ninty's ire like digital ROM distribution does.  If I had to guess, it's because they know the people buying repros have already bought the hardware, so it builds/reinforces brand loyalty all the same.  Just speculation though.


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## ChaosEternal (Nov 1, 2019)

Xzi said:


> That's the thing: Nintendo isn't arguing this case, and nobody is front of a judge.  If anything, they'd go after the people selling reproduction cartridges, not the people buying them, and they haven't done that.  It's not as if this even remotely a new practice, either.  I remember seeing reproductions on eBay as far back as 10 or 15 years ago.
> 
> For whatever reason, it just doesn't draw Ninty's ire like digital ROM distribution does.  If I had to guess, it's because they know the people buying repros have already bought the hardware, so it builds/reinforces brand loyalty all the same.  Just speculation though.


It could also be a matter of scale. I suspect that the number of people downloading ROMs is several orders of magnitude higher than the number of people buying high-quality reproduction cartridges.


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## Plstic (Nov 1, 2019)

How do you send out an email like that and claim its a mistake?


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## Deleted User (Nov 1, 2019)

“accidentally” sends out an email prohibiting the sale of Nintendo games. Coincidentally Nintendo listings were “mistakenly” removed.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 2, 2019)

ChaosEternal said:


> It could also be a matter of scale. I suspect that the number of people downloading ROMs is several orders of magnitude higher than the number of people buying high-quality reproduction cartridges.


It's entirely a matter of scale, legally there's no grey area - it's resale of illegally produced pirate copies of software, in every sense of the word. Selling a reproduction cartridge is no different than selling a bootleg CD - they're both illegal. Unless the cartridge is sold blank and the user flashes the information onto it themselves in their own time, it's most certainly making profit off of illegal software. Thing is, Nintendo has bigger fish to fry as far as piracy is concerned - reproductions pale in comparison to flashcarts or other assorted mods.


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## bobmcjr (Nov 2, 2019)

Even if this was actually a mistake, the fact that it was so plausible says a lot about the current state of Nintendo's attitude towards anything that vaguely resembles real competition.


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## Techjunky90 (Nov 2, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's a grey area, unclear whether sellers are profiting from the ROM itself or from the hardware which houses it.  Nintendo doesn't seem to go after any of the people selling reproductions on eBay, though, and there are a number of businesses/individuals who specialize in that.


"It's a grey area" WRONG. It is not a grey area, it's 100% illegal


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## KingVamp (Nov 2, 2019)

Agree. Selling used games isn't the same as selling pirated software.


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## Xzi (Nov 2, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Thing is, Nintendo has bigger fish to fry as far as piracy is concerned - reproductions pale in comparison to flashcarts or other assorted mods.


Indeed.  Not only do they ignore people selling reproduction cartridges, they also ignore people selling "100-in-1" cartridges and the like.  These can easily be found on Amazon as well as eBay.

https://www.amazon.com/FidgetFidget-Cartridge-Nintendo-Multicart-Version/dp/B07K7BKCF1/



Techjunky90 said:


> "It's a grey area" WRONG. It is not a grey area, it's 100% illegal





KingVamp said:


> Agree. Selling used games isn't the same as selling pirated software.


I won't contest that it's illegal on the seller's side of the transaction, but then it simply comes down to how motivated Nintendo is to pursue legal action against them.

There are any number of scenarios you'd have to consider on the buyer's side of things, and that's where things get a lot more grey.  For instance, did they know it was a reproduction at the time of purchase?  Do they already own the game in one format or another?  Etc.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 2, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Indeed.  Not only do they ignore people selling reproduction cartridges, they also ignore people selling "100-in-1" cartridges and the like.  These can be found on Amazon as well as eBay.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/FidgetFidget-Cartridge-Nintendo-Multicart-Version/dp/B07K7BKCF1/
> 
> ...


It's the act of distribution that's more commonly hunted, not so much the act of obtaining or owning pirated software (although those cases do exist as well). This is why Nintendo happily goes after ROM sites, but doesn't normally pursue individual users *unless* they distribute the software - we had one such case right here on the Temp. Things get pretty sticky when Torrents are put in the mix as the process of participating in a P2P file exchange usually means you are simultaneously receiving *and* distributing the copyrighted material, which is indeed problematic. The moral of the story is... use a trusted VPN? Or, preferably, buy your software legally - that one never fails.


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## Xzi (Nov 2, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Or, preferably, buy your software legally - that one never fails.


This is always my preference even with retro games, but there are occasions where original carts simply aren't available or are prohibitively rare/expensive.  Like I said previously in this thread, Nintendo would make a killing simply by doing limited re-releases of physical games for their 15th or 20th anniversaries, even people without the consoles would buy them for the packaging alone.  Not sure why that hasn't happened.

OTOH, Sony seems to keep a nearly unlimited supply of "greatest hits" games in circulation, so even PSX games can be found in new condition for very reasonable prices ($20 - $30).  Much smarter way to go about things IMO, especially since they still get a cut.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 2, 2019)

Xzi said:


> This is always my preference even with retro games, but there are occasions where original carts simply aren't available or are prohibitively rare/expensive.  Like I said previously in this thread, Nintendo would make a killing simply by doing limited re-releases of physical games for their 15th or 20th anniversaries, even people without the consoles would buy them for the packaging alone.  Not sure why that hasn't happened.
> 
> OTOH, Sony seems to keep a nearly unlimited supply of "greatest hits" games in circulation, so even PSX games can be found in new condition for very reasonable prices ($20 - $30).  Much smarter way to go about things IMO, especially since they still get a cut.


The problem here is that scarcity is a big reason why Nintendo games are always in demand - there's only so many of them. Nintendo seems to be fairly experienced with producing just enough goods to meet demand, or slightly less - rarely an excess. They've taken that methodology to the extreme with Amiibos which were limited deliberately. Now, naturally the fact that people don't tend to part with their Nintendo games also drives the price up, but you're right - it would be a good idea to allow non-collectors to just download the titles instead, that doesn't affect the collector market as those customers want physical retro cartridges specifically. I believe that's what they've been doing with Nintendo Online, but there are licensing issues to contend with whenever you re-release old software. With that said, I can't see why they couldn't re-release the entirety of their old catalogue on a whim - it is their own, so that shouldn't be a problem.


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## Captain_N (Nov 2, 2019)

While i truly dislike them jack ass resellers that get the good $1 games at thrift stores and resell them, amazon your stupid.You cant even get a burned wii U disc to boot. the drive wont even read it and no hacks will help the drive read it. so wtf. You cant get the switch to read a pirated switch cart either. so again your fucking stupid.


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## eriol33 (Nov 2, 2019)

I remember there is a "no resale" label  for japanese games published on PSX, I found it weird, but it seems going to be the norms. Not that it affects me much, nowadays I prefer to buy digital games even for the newest releases.


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## Madridi (Nov 2, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> Europe sounds unaffected as that always was the case same as Amazon.
> 
> Hello again, EBay my old friend in Europe?


Europe doesn’t have tax though. It has VAT, which is already part of the given price.
But yeah, its an American thing


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## James_ (Nov 2, 2019)

Chary said:


> UPDATE:
> Following the initial report of Amazon seller restrictions on used Nintendo products, Amazon has responded to the claims in a very brief official statement. Amazon claims that the email that was distributed to sellers was sent in error, and any removed listings have now been reinstated. Further details are vague, but it appears that sellers will NOT be impacted when selling used first-party Nintendo hardware or games.


_still staring at eBay_


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## goldensun87 (Nov 2, 2019)

Gee Nintendo, thanks for giving me more reasons to despise you.


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## raxadian (Nov 2, 2019)

Techjunky90 said:


> "It's a grey area" WRONG. It is not a grey area, it's 100% illegal




Since the hardware patents for both the Super Nintendo and the Sega genesis expired, is actually legal ro sell unofficial controllers for those two old consoles. The same for any older one like the Nes, since those consoles hardware  patents are also expired. That does not apply to the bios, if they have it, since that holds a separate patent.


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## Ericzander (Nov 2, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's a grey area, unclear whether sellers are profiting from the ROM itself or from the hardware which houses it.





Xzi said:


> I won't contest that it's illegal on the seller's side of the transaction, but then it simply comes down to how motivated Nintendo is to pursue legal action against them.


These seem like different arguments to me. But the second argument seems to concede that the first is wrong (that it's a legal grey area; if I'm reading it right). Because, as others have said, regardless of whether they're profiting from the ROM or the hardware it doesn't matter in court because it's illegal. Summary judgement in favor of plaintiff, case closed. But you're arguing that Nintendo wouldn't bring it to court anyway. Which I suppose is fair. But that's like saying that it's okay to upload and seed pirated torrents because you'll almost certainly never be brought to court for it.

Also @Captain_N and @goldensun87 the article has been updated. Amazon is not restricting sales of the games/products.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 2, 2019)

raxadian said:


> Since the hardware patents for both the Super Nintendo and the Sega genesis expired, is actually legal ro sell unofficial controllers for those two old consoles. The same for any older one like the Nes, since those consoles hardware  patents are also expired. That does not apply to the bios, if they have it, since that holds a separate patent.


The BIOS is more likely to be protected by copyright, and if they somehow did swing a software patent (not sure of timelines involved right now) then that would not apply outside of those few places that lack the self respect to not kick people that suggest the notion out of whatever law making setup they have.

Moreover it was legal to have an unofficial controller working from day -1 if you wanted as long as the patents on whatever aspects have been patented by them (or others) and trademarks + whatever other design type rights a given play might have were respected. Been a while since I looked at all the various patents Nintendo had on NES controllers so I don't know how easy or not it would have been to provide a functional controller and respect patents (though I guess you could have done a joystick) or have a workaround for them but it seems within reason. It might get trickier by the time you get to the 360 and Microsoft et al started embedding DRM in the controllers themselves.


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## raxadian (Nov 2, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> The BIOS is more likely to be protected by copyright, and if they somehow did swing a software patent (not sure of timelines involved right now) then that would not apply outside of those few places that lack the self respect to not kick people that suggest the notion out of whatever law making setup they have.
> 
> Moreover it was legal to have an unofficial controller working from day -1 if you wanted as long as the patents on whatever aspects have been patented by them (or others) and trademarks + whatever other design type rights a given play might have were respected. Been a while since I looked at all the various patents Nintendo had on NES controllers so I don't know how easy or not it would have been to provide a functional controller and respect patents (though I guess you could have done a joystick) or have a workaround for them but it seems within reason. It might get trickier by the time you get to the 360 and Microsoft et al started embedding DRM in the controllers themselves.



I remember PS2 fake controllers looking almost the same as real ones, and you only noticed a month or two later became the plastic was much flimsier and the controller broke down quite easily. Heck even the plastic warping had the correct logos and that. 

Anyway, does Amazon has his own gaming service or something like that? Is amazing how much they have grown from that website that scammed you with book prices.


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## Xzi (Nov 2, 2019)

Ericzander said:


> But you're arguing that Nintendo wouldn't bring it to court anyway. Which I suppose is fair. But that's like saying that it's okay to upload and seed pirated torrents because you'll almost certainly never be brought to court for it.


It's more just an observation than an argument, Nintendo hasn't taken action against sellers of reproduction carts despite the practice having been ongoing for the better part of two decades.  In that same time frame we HAVE seen plenty of legal action taken against people who seed/host torrents of copyrighted materials, though if we're talking Nintendo specifically, they seem to target HTTP/FTP hosts almost exclusively.


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## xile6 (Nov 2, 2019)

was only a matter of time.
I believe some places in the word do no sell used games.


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## diggeloid (Nov 2, 2019)

It's scary to me how many people are actually wondering whether selling used games should be legal. The future is going to be a terrible place to be a consumer.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2019)

Wow, someone at Amazon is a dick.

Edit: Never mind, long day x3


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## Pippin666 (Nov 3, 2019)

x65943 said:


> I made two assumptions
> 1. Amazon earns a fixed percent from sale of items
> 2. Majority of people who shop for games on Amazon will not look elsewhere
> 
> I suppose an alternative could be pressure from Nintendo - but I doubt Nintendo has that much negotiating power


I think Nintendo does have negotiating power. Remember, last year most sold game on Amazon was Super Smash for Switch, it achieved that whiting a single month, during december.

Pip'


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## x65943 (Nov 3, 2019)

Pippin666 said:


> I think Nintendo does have negotiating power. Remember, last year most sold game on Amazon was Super Smash for Switch, it achieved that whiting a single month, during december.
> 
> Pip'


Right, but now consider if Amazon wasn't selling it that may have also meant less sales for Nintendo as well - it is not necessarily a one way relationship


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## MrCokeacola (Nov 3, 2019)

Amazon would never do this cause money. Unless Nintendo paid them heavily.


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## Obveron (Nov 3, 2019)

Obviously Nintendo would love Amazon to stop selling used games.  but I have no idea what Amazon would have to gain.   Sure it's possible Nintendo pays Amazon for the arrangement.  but honestly I wouldn't think Nintendo have pockets deep enough to have Amazon abandon their mandate and piss off their sellers and consumers.


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## Ericzander (Nov 3, 2019)

xile6 said:


> was only a matter of time.
> I believe some places in the word do no sell used games.


The article has been updated. Amazon is not restricting sales of the games/products.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Nov 3, 2019)

Ericzander said:


> The article has been updated. Amazon is not restricting sales of the games/products.



*oopsdidntmeanto*

They're only doing this because of the potential backlash.
--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 3, 2019)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> *oopsdidntmeanto*
> 
> They're only doing this because of the potential backlash.
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


And the sun is hot.


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## Proto-Propski (Nov 4, 2019)

Meanwhile, Ebay is flooded with a mass quantity of used Nintendo Games for sale at very reasonable pricing.


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## Der_Blockbuster (Nov 4, 2019)

Who buys used Nintendo games on Amazon anyway am I right?


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## MrCokeacola (Nov 4, 2019)

Der_Blockbuster said:


> Who buys used Nintendo games on Amazon anyway am I right?


true


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## Elwyndas (Nov 5, 2019)

I've been selling on Amazon professionally for almost 10 years, and getting this email from Amazon on a Sunday was a big stinker. It gave a lot of good merchants a sleepless night and ruined tons of dinners. I don't have much Nintendo inventory right now, so to me it was not such a big deal, but still it would have meant a substantial amount of lost income down the road. I really wish someone could get to the bottom of this "error". I smell a rotten fish TBH.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 5, 2019)

Elwyndas said:


> I've been selling on Amazon professionally for almost 10 years, and getting this email from Amazon on a Sunday was a big stinker. It gave a lot of good merchants a sleepless night and ruined tons of dinners. I don't have much Nintendo inventory right now, so to me it was not such a big deal,_ but still it would have meant a substantial amount of lost income down the road_. I really wish someone could get to the bottom of this "error". I smell a rotten fish TBH.


Is this not why people are told to diversify sales platforms/income streams? Sometimes you get pigeon holed or have to specialise but for something like games and amazon that I can't see going.

As far as "error" then my experiences with Amazon inner workings are minimal and now about a decade out but the impression I got from speaking to people back then was there were a fair few checks and balances along the way (though words like bureaucracy were thrown around during said conversation). I too find it hard to believe someone sneezed and set it to that, much less late in the week, and if they did then maybe if seller = one of top ?? then require big boy authorisation probably wants to be added to code.


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## Deleted User (Nov 5, 2019)

"I am feeling very conflicting feelings right now"


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## SonicRings (Nov 8, 2019)

It's nice to see Nintendo making the decision to pirate their games all the more easier by completely banning used games on Amazon. "Oh well, I can't buy that used game I wanted, guess I don't have a choice but to pirate it with a clear conscience!"


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## Ericzander (Nov 8, 2019)

sonicrings said:


> It's nice to see Nintendo making the decision to pirate their games all the more easier by completely banning used games on Amazon. "Oh well, I can't buy that used game I wanted, guess I don't have a choice but to pirate it with a clear conscience!"





			
				Me said:
			
		

> The article has been updated. Amazon is not restricting sales of the games/products.


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