# Online Gaming Limited to 3 Hours a Week for Minors in China



## SG854 (Aug 30, 2021)

For under 18 online gaming is banned from Monday to Thursday and is limited to only Friday, Saturday, Sunday from 8pm to 9pm


https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/video-...play-times-chinas-young-video-gamers-rcna1816

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...videogames-during-the-school-week-11630325781

https://www.reuters.com/world/china...rules-minors-online-gaming-xinhua-2021-08-30/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/chi...games-for-more-than-three-hours-per-week.html


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## subcon959 (Aug 30, 2021)

"Spiritual Opium" is a great band name, I call it!


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## bonkmaykr (Aug 31, 2021)

SG854 said:


> For under 18 online gaming is banned from Monday to Thursday and is limited to only Friday, Saturday, Sunday from 8pm to 9pm
> 
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/video-...play-times-chinas-young-video-gamers-rcna1816
> ...


i can understand, like, 3 to 5 hours a day.

But this is fucking overkill


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## antiNT (Aug 31, 2021)

This is not something that the government should control


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 31, 2021)

This law won't last long
Big tech will bribe China in 2 - 3 months

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



antiNT said:


> This is not something that the government should control


luckily we live in freedom land


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## bonkmaykr (Aug 31, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> This law won't last long
> Big tech will bribe China in 2 - 3 months
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


i agree and disagree


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 31, 2021)

bonkmaykr said:


> i agree and disagree


With freedom land or the bribe?


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## DinohScene (Aug 31, 2021)

To many children in online games.
They'll never succeed tho...


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## lokomelo (Aug 31, 2021)

My kids are allowed to play online for a maximum of 0 minutes. So obviously I agree that is healthy to limit online play for kids, what I don't agree at all is the government choosing that instead of the families.


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## bonkmaykr (Aug 31, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> With freedom land or the bribe?


Obvs the latter


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 31, 2021)

bonkmaykr said:


> Obvs the latter


the what?


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## bonkmaykr (Aug 31, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> the what?


latter = last of something
obvs = obviously

"obviously the bribe"


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## Xzi (Aug 31, 2021)

DinohScene said:


> To many children in online games.
> They'll never succeed tho...


It's easier by far to manage something like this in China, what with the insane amount of surveillance cameras there and a social credit system already in place.  Also, gaming/cyber cafes are a lot more popular there, so they will have no problem tracking kids' gaming time.

Not that this is right, of course.  Parents should be the only ones to choose what limits they set on their kids' gaming time.  In a police state like China, I can't begin to imagine how much depression and anger taking away an outlet like gaming might lead to.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 31, 2021)

bonkmaykr said:


> latter = last of something
> obvs = obviously
> 
> "obviously the bribe"


No I bet that the bribe will happen
They just won't publicly say that the bribe happended


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## subcon959 (Sep 3, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> No I bet that the bribe will happen
> They just won't publicly say that the bribe happended


You're thinking about it in terms of the west where corporations can seemingly control the culture. In China it's the other way around, the government sees the tech boom as a threat and is trying to slap them back into line.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 3, 2021)

Eh.. I'm not going to make friends here, but I partially agree with the Chinese government. Admitted, due to something that I heard lately.
Namely : my five year old cousin has discovered Nintendo gaming since a few months. His parents (my brother) go about it sensibly, but he's developing an addiction I don't even recall by myself (and video gaming has been my world since I was his age).
My mother takes care of her grandchildren a day per week. Today she was looking after my child, and because I was working from home I overheard something I consider horrible.
Earlier this week she looked after her other grandchildren (along which my nephew). And because he's five, there need to be correctings by a parent (my mother).
Nephew's reaction : 'I hope you don't come over anymore. Then I can play video games more often'.

No, my brother and sister - in - law didn't take kindly to him saying that, and of course : he's five. But my mother spends entire days with her grandchildren since they were born. That console (a wii) is only in his life for a few months. And that reaction? It's horrible.

*sigh *
Okay... I hoe you can see I'm speaking from just hearing this experience, not from a philosophical point of view (sorry... No 1984 comparisons today from me).

My point is now : video games can be just as addicting and destructive as drugs. And western governments just don't give a damn about that. They care about it just enough to keep soccer moms voting from them, that's all.

Is the Chinese government going too far? Yes. I don't dispute that these sorts of measurements should be a last measurement, after many other attempts to put sense in parents. But on the other hand... Parents are stupid (I speak from experience here). You think sensibility programs are going to do much? Dream on. Every parent is going to declare himself the exception to the rule, and there won't change anything.

Now? Gaming addiction is going to take a nosedive in China. So... There's that.


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## Viri (Sep 3, 2021)

Parents should be the only one to police a kids video game playing time. Unless he or she is at school, then it should be the teacher.

Having the gov police your video game time is just creepy.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 4, 2021)

well screw china i doubt this shit would occur anywhere else


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## Xzi (Sep 4, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> You're thinking about it in terms of the west where corporations can seemingly control the culture. In China it's the other way around, the government sees the tech boom as a threat and is trying to slap them back into line.


Yes and no.  China's government is an oligarchy, so they do operate somewhat similar to a corporation, with a select few on top of the profit pyramid.  Conceivably, a large enough bribe could work, and it might even be their end goal for this move.  I could see Epic paying them off to keep Fortnite numbers high.


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## RAHelllord (Sep 4, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> Eh.. I'm not going to make friends here, but I partially agree with the Chinese government. Admitted, due to something that I heard lately.
> Namely : my five year old cousin has discovered Nintendo gaming since a few months. His parents (my brother) go about it sensibly, but he's developing an addiction I don't even recall by myself (and video gaming has been my world since I was his age).
> My mother takes care of her grandchildren a day per week. Today she was looking after my child, and because I was working from home I overheard something I consider horrible.
> Earlier this week she looked after her other grandchildren (along which my nephew). And because he's five, there need to be correctings by a parent (my mother).
> ...



The ban is only on extensive online gaming, not all gaming. Just because a kid can't access the online portion doesn't mean they can't throw away dozens of hours every week into some offline campaign or another.

However, online gaming can be more addictive due to the nature of the beast that is both the mmo grind and just hanging out with friends. I wonder if, instead of trying to help gaming addicts, this is more meant to try and further curb exposure of kids to non-CCP approved schools of thought. Things like the animal crossing protests for Hong Kong or similar.


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## Deleted member 532471 (Sep 4, 2021)

Hell yeah, this is awesome


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## CloudStrife1901 (Sep 4, 2021)

It may do the children some good considering majority of the population are brain dead zombies


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 4, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> In a police state like China, I can't begin to imagine how much depression and anger taking away an outlet like gaming might lead to.


I would rather live in a safe police state than in a country in which gangs are paid money not to commit crime and "mostly peaceful protests" look like civil war in the Middle East, i.e. USA.

Chinese society is ultra competitive (esp. since the one child is supposed to look after older relatives). There seems to be a growing number of rich competitive kids who are "blessed" with extra tutoring on weekends (see recent ban) and those who quit the system and give up on studying (comparable to incels in America or the Japanese phenomenon). Both aspects have been created by a growing middle class. This partial online gaming ban could actually decrease depression.
BTW I would dispute that gaming lowers any depression or anger. It is a form of escapism.

Parents still can decide to let them play on one of their phones, by the way. So in the end parents gain more control through this ban!


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## lokomelo (Sep 4, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I would rather live in a safe police state than in a country in which gangs are paid money not to commit crime and "mostly peaceful protests" look like civil war in the Middle East, i.e. USA.
> 
> Chinese society is ultra competitive (esp. since the one child is supposed to look after older relatives). There seems to be a growing number of rich competitive kids who are "blessed" with extra tutoring on weekends (see recent ban) and those who quit the system and give up on studying (comparable to incels in America or the Japanese phenomenon). Both aspects have been created by a growing middle class. This partial online gaming ban could actually decrease depression.
> BTW I would dispute that gaming lowers any depression or anger. It is a form of escapism.
> ...


I don't know where you got that quote from me.

Anyway, I don't like governments having word on behaviors that not hurt others, like gaming, fucking, drinking, dressing and so on.

Now if you ask me where I would like to live, I would not be either China or USA, but I already visited both, and in the USA I had two bitter problems, in China none. 15 days is not illustrative of a lifetime but there we go.


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## Xzi (Sep 4, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I would rather live in a safe police state than in a country in which gangs are paid money not to commit crime and "mostly peaceful protests" look like civil war in the Middle East, i.e. USA.


Oh don't get me wrong (though you did attribute that quote to the wrong person), the US has plenty of problems with its police too.  For now though, at least we have the right to protest murders/brutality committed by police without getting permanently disappeared and/or executed, which is a big leg up on China's current level of authoritarianism.

That said: your description of America is not reality lmao, the only places that frame it that way are far-right media outlets with the intention of being perpetual boomer outrage machines.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> This partial online gaming ban could be actually decrease depression.


I admit I jumped the gun a bit and glossed over the "applies to online gaming only" part.  Not the worst possible thing in that context, though I maintain it shouldn't be the government's place to set such restrictions.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> BTW I would dispute that gaming lowers any depression or anger. It is a form of escapism.


Different people game for different reasons, but yes, escapism is one of them.  The real world is often stressful, so finding a way to "escape" it can be a de-stressor.  Alcohol and drugs would be other alternatives, but not necessarily good ones for obvious reasons.


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## subcon959 (Sep 4, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yes and no.  China's government is an oligarchy, so they do operate somewhat similar to a corporation, with a select few on top of the profit pyramid.  Conceivably, a large enough bribe could work, and it might even be their end goal for this move.  I could see Epic paying them off to keep Fortnite numbers high.


I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Tencent was one of the companies the government was being particularly hard on.


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## Xzi (Sep 4, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Tencent was one of the companies the government was being particularly hard on.


Yeah it is a limit on online gaming only, so I'm pretty sure that would include all mobile games and nearly all other IPs/studios owned wholly or partially by Tencent.  The thing is: the government takes a decent chunk of Tencent's profits, so this could be seen as shooting themselves in the foot, but again, they might just be looking for a lump sum payout from an industry they know is currently doing well.


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## subcon959 (Sep 4, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yeah it is a limit on online gaming only, so I'm pretty sure that would include all mobile games and nearly all other IPs/studios owned wholly or partially by Tencent.  The thing is: the government takes a decent chunk of Tencent's profits, so this could be seen as shooting themselves in the foot, but again, they might just be looking for a lump sum payout from an industry they know is currently doing well.


I think shooting themselves in the foot is something they do very well. Look at the fines against sites like Alibaba, they are definitely smacking down tech companies and showing them who's in charge. It doesn't even feel like it's for extortion, it seems they just want everyone to bow down to them.


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## tomberyx (Sep 4, 2021)

One thing must not be forgotten, China had a one child policy for years, these children mainly men are not able to do any work except on the keyboard. Back then, parents did everything for the children, now the children are grown up and lazy.
Many children are used to not working, which is also a very big problem for the economy and also for reproduction.
In my opinion, it's too late to take the keyboard off.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> That said: your description of America is not reality lmao, the only places that frame it that way are far-right media outlets with the intention of being perpetual boomer outrage machines.


I think I heard about it on ABC or RT, not necessarily far-right media outlets (though I dispute their reporting is any worse than e.g. CNN or FOX). What is wrong about my description? I have seen the summer of 2020 through live footage and it looked like civil war. Again, I am glad China does not allow this. I would feel unsafe. I am sure you feel the same way regarding right-wing protests (see January 6th). And gang members in San Francisco are going to be paid 300$ per month if they stop their criminal behavior. And if they seek life coaching and apply for jobs, that amount even goes up to 500$. Please correct my framing.


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## Unia4L (Sep 5, 2021)

China just wants more control over their people.


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What is wrong about my description? I have seen the summer of 2020 through live footage and it looked like civil war.


Not even footage of riots looked like civil war, they looked like riots.  I'm not gonna cry over a few Wal-Marts or McDonalds getting torched as collateral damage, especially if it sends the message that there are consequences for employing/protecting murderous police.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Again, I am glad China does not allow this. I would feel unsafe.


I already feel unsafe around power-tripping police in the US, Chinese police have even more power and even less accountability.  Your feeling of "safety" is nothing but an illusion which will only last as long as you're willing to goose-step in line with the government's draconian demands for your personal life.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am sure you feel the same way regarding right-wing protests (see January 6th).


That was not a protest, it was an attempted insurrection/coup by a mob of fascists.  The only reason you don't need to worry about that happening in China is because like-minded (right-wing) oligarchs already have total control of the government, and they profit massively from its corruption.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Not even footage of riots looked like civil war, they looked like riots.  I'm not gonna cry over a few Wal-Marts or McDonalds getting torched as collateral damage, especially if it sends the message that there are consequences for employing/protecting murderous police.


Scary. I am glad you are not interested in living in China.



Xzi said:


> I already feel unsafe around power-tripping police in the US, Chinese police have even more power and even less accountability.  Your feeling of "safety" is nothing but an illusion which will only last as long as you're willing to goose-step in line with the government's draconian demands for your personal life.


I do not intend to break laws in a foreign country, so I do not regard them as draconian. 



Xzi said:


> That was not a protest, it was an attempted insurrection/coup by a mob of fascists.  The only reason you don't need to worry about that happening in China is because like-minded (right-wing) oligarchs already have total control of the government, and they profit massively from its corruption.


I mean if right-wing riots similar to BLM riots in 2020 had been going on, you would have been for strict use of force (like calling in the national guard; cf. after Jan 6th). We both know it is true. Unlike you, I am consistent and would be for "police brutality" in both cases.


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Scary. I am glad you are not interested in living in China.


What's scary is valuing corporate profits over human lives.  That mentality also makes it incredibly easy for authoritarians to maintain absolute control over your country.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I do not intend to break laws in a foreign country, so I do not regard them as draconian.


You don't think of them as draconian because you have to live with them every day regardless, and so with nobody pushing back, the laws/restrictions slowly just get worse and worse.  Boiling the frog, as it were.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I mean if right-wing riots similar to BLM riots in 2020 had been going on, you would have been for strict use of force (like calling in the national guard; cf. after Jan 6th).


If the right-wing started protesting and rioting over police brutality, they'd no longer be right-wing.  Other than white supremacy, worship of authority figures is probably the biggest part of their identity.

So no, I would not be against anyone calling for more police accountability.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Unlike you, I am consistent and would be for "police brutality" in both cases.


Consistency doesn't count for much when you're talking about being consistently lawful evil.  Yikes.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 5, 2021)

it's no use @Xzi even though @UltraDolphin IS doing something illegal by even being at temp (according to chinese law) he has no choice but to conform or face the CCP's wrath


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> What's scary is valuing corporate profits over human lives.


I want riots to be put down because I value human lives. People get hurt and killed in riots, their property damaged, their lives ruined.


Xzi said:


> If the right-wing started protesting and rioting over police brutality, they'd no longer be right-wing.  Other than white supremacy, worship of authority figures is probably the biggest part of their identity.


It does not matter what they are rioting for (think of any example like rising gas prices), you would be for using state force against them. So you are hypocrite. Mainstream media demonized police during the summer but hailed them as protectors of democracy on Jan 6th. You cannot both abolish or defund the police and yet call on them to beat up your political opponents.



chrisrlink said:


> it's no use @Xzi even though @UltraDolphin IS doing something illegal by even being at temp (according to chinese law) he has no choice but to conform or face the CCP's wrath


It is not against the law. But if it were, I would stop using this website. You are just assuming things.


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I want riots to be put down because I value human lives. People get hurt and killed in riots, their property damaged, their lives ruined.


Rioting is already illegal, as is damaging property and assault/battery.  What you don't seem to understand is that these laws are useless if they don't apply to _everybody_, and that includes the police.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It does not matter what they are rioting for (think of any example like rising gas prices), you would be for using state force against them.


Of course it matters.  Rioting would do nothing to slow inflation or rising gas prices, but protesting for a higher minimum wage can be effective.  Alternatively, unionize.  

I do not support police acting like an occupying force in any context.  Only violent crimes call for a violent response, and even then the first and primary goal should be non-lethal takedown.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Mainstream media demonized police during the summer but hailed them as protectors of democracy on Jan 6th.


During the summer they were on a murdering spree over every little misdemeanor, and on January 6th the Capitol police were the only thing preventing members of Congress from being murdered.  Context matters.  That said, there were also off-duty police from all over the country who participated as part of the insurrectionist mob, so things aren't so black and white in this particular case.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You cannot both abolish or defund the police and yet call on them to beat up your political opponents.


You realize Trump was still in office January 6th, yes?  Nobody "called up" the Capitol police to beat up random right-wingers on the streets, they were on the defensive that day.  If all police acted solely to "protect and serve" in that same manner, they wouldn't have to worry about the public turning against them.  The problem is cops acting as aggressors, which makes them no better than a well-armed street gang.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Rioting is already illegal, as is damaging property and assault/battery.  What you don't seem to understand is that these laws are useless if they don't apply to _everybody_, and that includes the police.


It does apply to everybody. That´s why there are body cameras for police officers. Sometimes bad police officers get away with crime themselves, but it is a tiny amount compared to the unpunished gun crime which never gets resolved because the African community covers their "own", including gun criminals. There was a birthday party this year in which 9 children got shot but...
"_St. John the Baptist Parish sheriffs said over 60 people were at the party, but there were_* no witnesses." *(https://news.yahoo.com/9-children-shot-birthday-party-160525011.html)
If you want police brutality to stop, you actually need much more police enforcement. Cameras everywhere, strict punishment. Then criminals will have less leeway. The fact that scantly clothed drunk women can walk home without fear of being attacked in Chinese mega cities can only have two explanations: a "police state" (as you call it) or people in China are simply being less violent than people in e.g. Chicago or Detroit. I know you cannot mentally accept either. Please give me another explanation. It is not poverty as China was extremely poor until recently.



Xzi said:


> During the summer they were on a murdering spree over every little misdemeanor


If somebody escapes arrest by suddenly running away and getting in a car, he becomes a danger to the police officers and civilians. He was not shot "while driving" (lol) as the media put it. Context matters indeed. I could go on. Weird how the "killing spree" almost always occurs after resistance to arrest.



Xzi said:


> January 6th


This was just an example. If there were right-wing riots (e.g. against media censorship) which included whole streets being burnt and looted, you would be FOR police violence because you are a hypocrite. I would be for the use of force in both cases.


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It does apply to everybody. That´s why there are body cameras for police officers.


A very recent addition for most departments across the US, and now we have to deal with plenty of cops turning off their body cameras before committing a crime.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Sometimes bad police officers get away with crime themselves


Understatement of the century.  The phrase is "a few bad apples...*spoil the bunch*."  Officers who report ethical/criminal violations by other officers usually get fired as a favor, whereas officers who commit any crime up to and including murder get paid leave or a transfer.  They're rotten right up through the police unions, in America at least.  In China I'm sure that stuff doesn't even get a spot on the news due to the population size, officers are just above the law there.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you want police brutality to stop, you actually need much more police enforcement.


LMAO, "the beatings will continue until morale improves."  Nah we need more civilian oversight on police, we don't need a worse version of what we already have.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Cameras everywhere, strict punishment.


_FUUUCK_ that.  Our criminal punishments were way too strict for way too long already thanks to the 13th amendment and prison industrial complex.  And cameras/mics on everybody's cell phones are bad enough for privacy's sake.  The answer in 2021 is not to jump the gun on techno-dystopia.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The fact that scantly clothed drunk women can walk home without fear of being attacked in Chinese mega cities can only have two explanations: a "police state" (as you call it)


Yes, that.  In addition to the ridiculous surveillance you just alluded to, you've also got the whole social credit system.  I can't imagine having to walk around like I had a stick up my ass all day just to impress the billionaire oligarchs (bosses).  Those who don't conform...what?  Get disappeared forever or just made slaves like the American system?  Also on that note: pour one out for the Uyghurs in China, or however many of them there are left.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is not poverty as China was extremely poor until recently.


Most crime is driven by desperation rather than pure malice, and nothing builds desperation quite like poverty.  You only hear the good stuff because that's all the government wants you to hear.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If somebody escapes arrest by suddenly running away and getting in a car, he becomes a danger to the police officers and civilians. He was not shot "while driving" (lol) as the media put it. Context matters indeed. I could go on. Weird how the "killing spree" almost always occurs after resistance to arrest.


I don't even know what story you're talking about here.  I'll just say that in general, US police are too trigger happy.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If there were right-wing riots (e.g. against media censorship) which included whole streets being burnt and looted, you would be FOR police violence because you are a hypocrite. I would be for the use of force in both cases.


See the problem here is that you're never gonna find a right-wing position I agree with.  And of course I'd love to see some "Proud Boy" assholes get taken down a peg, that'd be hilarious.  However, I'd never advocate for letting cops kill people over a protest that got out of control, no matter how stupid the reason for that initial protest.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> See the problem here is that you're never gonna find a right-wing position I agree with.


Because you have no sense of morality or justice. It will be difficult for me to agree with you on anything, but I would not support violence against you. Nor would I tolerate riots from the "right side".


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Because you have no sense of morality or justice.


No, because I'm unwilling to accept a bunch of corrupt oligarchs' idea of morality and justice.  China is exactly what America will become if we continue to let corporations dictate the rules of our justice system.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Nor would I tolerate riots from the "right side".


No individual or group is on the right side of every issue, all the time.  The only reason I was willing to overlook some riots on behalf of George Floyd is because cops had gotten away with so many murders prior without facing justice for their crimes, and nobody believed Chauvin would face justice either.  When the people enforcing our laws themselves don't adhere to those laws, it should be a wholly expected outcome that people will lose faith in and stop respecting the system.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> No, because I'm unwilling to accept a bunch of corrupt oligarchs' idea of morality and justice.  China is exactly what America will become if we continue to let corporations dictate the rules of our justice system.


As it has been pointed out in this thread, it works differently in China. The party is above the corporations.



Xzi said:


> When the people enforcing our laws themselves don't adhere to those laws, it should be a wholly expected outcome that people will lose faith in and stop respecting the system.


I have not seen police officers taking part in the looting and destruction. You are acting as if they are eager to beat up people when they put on their uniform. Every cop loves a quiet day. But when you come into a situation which involves resistance to arrest, you fear for your life. It only takes a second to shoot a cop and America is armed to the teeth. Police in China have much more tolerance to disputes with offenders (I assume because they are not assuming civilians are armed; I have seen it many times).
You better respect the system. If enough people do not, you get South Africa. People there were looting as well and then stood in never-ending lines to get food from supermarkets, even arming themselves to stop the looting! (I do not mean store owners but normal citizens) Only spoiled children can bite the hand that feeds them (i.e. the "system" in the US).


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As it has been pointed out in this thread, it works differently in China. The party is above the corporations.


The party operates exactly like a corporation.  Soulless and corrupt.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I have not seen police officers taking part in the looting and destruction.


Assuming your flag is correct, you haven't seen US police officers do anything.  With stuff like civil forfeiture, they steal more cash from citizens most years than petty thieves.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> But when you come into a situation which involves resistance to arrest, you fear for your life.


A pathetic excuse, retail and fast food workers de-escalate way more conflict daily, and do it unarmed.  Cops who "fear for their lives" during every single routine traffic stop aren't cut out to be cops.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Only spoiled children can bite the hand that feeds them (i.e. the "system" in the US).


Only a fool sacrifices all his freedom for an intangible feeling of "absolute security."  Authoritarians always take advantage of such irrational fear, we've seen it too many times to count throughout history.  I'm sure the Chinese would also exercise their right to protest regularly, _if_ they had such a right.  Instead you just got all the worst parts of capitalism without any of the good stuff being grandfathered in.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> A pathetic excuse, retail and fast food workers de-escalate way more conflict daily, and do it unarmed.  Cops who "fear for their lives" during every single routine traffic stop aren't cut out to be cops.


Boy oh boy. Quixotic to the core. As a cop you are not only dealing with armed civilians but also with cop assassinations where people make fake 911 calls and then kill the arriving officer. How can you compare this to fast food workers who have no damn power to put anyone in prison? Of course they are not threatening to criminals.


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## Xzi (Sep 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As a cop you are not only dealing with armed civilians but also with cop assassinations where people make fake 911 calls and then kill the arriving officer.


Police kill more than one thousand unarmed citizens annually and a lot more dogs.  Your anecdote happens once every five years, if that?  I'll say it again: if a cop fears every single person within a community they're meant to be protecting and serving, they're not cut out to be a cop.  That or the community they've been assigned to may as well be Mexico for their lack of familiarity/connection with it.  If you treat everyone as hostile to the badge, it shouldn't come as any surprise when they treat police as an unwelcome occupying force.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How can you compare this to fast food workers who have no damn power to put anyone in prison?


Because, again, I was referring specifically to de-escalating conflict with unarmed citizens, which is something police are meant to be good at.  If they just wanna act like thugs 24/7, then apparently they're only cut out for responding to violent crime, and we need to establish a different public service for responding to non-violent crime.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 5, 2021)

let's get this damn train back on the rails shall we? point is China has a very toxic government  and by micromanaging youth lives is very bad for the mental health of the youth (think of how some parents are militeristic and the youth rebels and runs away sometimes their are strict parents who are bad at parenting it depends on multiple factors but the goverment shouldn't micromanage playtime that should be up to the parents


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Police kill more than one thousand unarmed citizens annually and a lot more dogs. Your anecdote happens once every five years, if that?


I cannot operate search engines in China as well as in Europe, but I have found the claim that 14 unarmed black and 25 white men have been fatally shot in 2019 in the US.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...icide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/

Please provide your source. Hopefully I can read it, otherwise you need to copy the text.
I wonder how many of these unarmed men resisted arrest or made unwise moves (like reaching for their pockets or the below their car seat) by the way (!)

51 police officers were killed that year. 
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/us/2020-law-enforcement-line-of-duty-deaths-trnd/index.html

I do not know how many due to fake 911 calls but it seems to be a growing number. There is a name for this that I cannot recall.



Xzi said:


> If you treat everyone as hostile to the badge, it shouldn't come as any surprise when they treat police as an unwelcome occupying force.


Just as a prostitute assumes the worst of her clients it is best to assume the worst as a police officer. Police officers are not invited to Kindergarten partys. The do not deal with the average citizen. Their clients are usually male, young and aggressive. Otherwise they would not be called.



Xzi said:


> ...and we need to establish a different public service for responding to non-violent crime.


Like what exactly? How do you know the drug user or dealer is not going to have a gun as well? He is more likely to have it than grandma.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

EDIT: Sorry for double posting!


chrisrlink said:


> point is China has a very toxic government  and by micromanaging youth lives is very bad for the mental health of the youth


How is it toxis? If you are American, your government has spent trillions into a worthless war. It operates an extremely large and costly military without benefit to you. How are you going to profit from having World War 3 over Taiwan, for example?
In contrast, the Chinese government has brought tens of millions out of extreme poverty recently, has built the best infrastructure in the world and seems to at least have the interest of its people in mind. America does not even have a "people". America is a "creed/conviction state", i.e. the next Taliban arriving in a plane is just as American as you are if he believes the right things. And as we both know he does not even have to think them, pretending is enough. Even your so-called toxic Chinese government does not deny that e.g. drug dealers are not "real Chinese". They just hang them.



chrisrlink said:


> the goverment shouldn't micromanage playtime that should be up to the parents


As I have stated, this move actually gives parents more oversight. Children are going to ask their parents for permission to use their first or second phone to play games. Even for a child it is unrealistic not to have a smart phone in China (unless he or she is too young to buy stuff or go out by him- or herself).


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Please provide your source.


My source is official DoJ reports on shootings/murders by police.  The rate has remained fairly steady since 2015, right around 1000 people shot and killed by police annually.  These two sites take a deeper dive into the numbers and show that over half of these killings are preventable, while a good chunk of these officers are also repeat offenders:

https://policeviolencereport.org/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

Departments don't report statistics on the number of pet dogs killed annually, but estimates are as high as 25 to 30 *daily*, 10,000 annually.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> 51 police officers were killed that year.


It's a dangerous job, there's no denying that, but it's also entirely too easy for police to become the biggest danger to their communities themselves.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Police officers are not invited to Kindergarten partys. The do not deal with the average citizen.


They do deal with average citizens, all the time.  A sizeable portion of their job is just fundraising for their town/city via traffic ticket quotas.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Their clients are usually male, young and aggressive. Otherwise they would not be called.


They also get called for noise complaints, drug use, and mental health issues/welfare checks.  Their first instinct should not be to keep one hand on their gun at all times in any of these scenarios.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How do you know the drug user or dealer is not going to have a gun as well?


A good argument for decriminalizing most, if not all recreational drugs.  If users know the focus is entirely on rehabilitation and not criminal penalties, they're much more likely to accept the help they need, and much less likely to be aggressive toward anyone approaching them from the outset.  Regulation also greatly cuts into gang and drug cartel profits, so violent dealers become less prevalent.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> The rate has remained fairly steady since 2015, right around 1000 people shot and killed by police annually.


You spoke of "more than a thousand unarmed citizens". Can you quote the link where it says unarmed, please?
[sidenote: of these unarmed: how many resisted arrest or made unwise hand movements; there is no data on it]


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You spoke of "more than a thousand unarmed citizens". Can you quote the link where it says unarmed, please?
> [sidenote: of these unarmed: how many resisted arrest or made unwise hand movements; there is no data on it]


I was mistaken with that addendum, on average about 40% of those shot and killed by police annually are unarmed, and roughly another 20% are only carrying a knife.  That said, carrying a firearm is a constitutionally-protected right in America, so it's still not justifiable for police to kill someone for that reason alone.  Given the statistics, skin color obviously plays a big part in cops' calculus when analyzing an armed person as a potential threat.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I was mistaken with that addendum, on average about 40% of those shot and killed by police annually are unarmed,


That would be hundreds, i.e. much more than the number I provided. Can you quote the text, please?


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> That would be hundreds, i.e. much more than the number I provided. Can you quote the text, please?


Of the 1,126 people killed by police in 2020, 667 had a gun on their person or in their vehicle.  The rest were either unarmed, had only a knife, or had their vehicle classified as a "weapon."  Additionally, a majority of these killings began with police responding to non-violent offenses, only 309 of them occurred during a response to violent crimes.

All info provided by https://policeviolencereport.org/


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Of the 1,126 people killed by police in 2020, 667 had a gun on their person or in their vehicle.  The rest were either unarmed, had only a knife, or had their vehicle classified as a "weapon."  Additionally, a majority of these killings began with police responding to non-violent offenses, only 309 of them occurred during a response to violent crimes.
> 
> All info provided by https://policeviolencereport.org/


Your case does not look good. You were pretending there were more than a thousand unarmed citizens killed (per year) int he US. Then you correct your number down to 40% of a thousand (which is around 400 hundred). *But the website you provided roughly agrees with the numbers I provided: 81 of all races in 2020, 27 of which were black.*
Now please look up crime numbers committed by blacks in the US. If you do not care about non-black lives, only concentrate on black vs black violence. Wouldn´t you want to do something about this horrendous situation rather than about 100 or so killings of unarmed people (of all races) by police? (of which most are probably not done in malice by the way)
What is your agenda here? I hope you at least admit that your numbers were completely wrong.


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Your case does not look good. You were pretending there were more than a thousand unarmed citizens killed (per year) int he US. Then you correct your number down to 40% of a thousand (which is around 400 hundred).


Even among cases with armed citizens, only about 30% of shootings committed by police can be considered justifiable at most.  Carrying a registered weapon does not give anybody carte blanche to murder you, least of all officers who are meant to understand the laws they're enforcing.  So you're right: the numbers don't look good.  They show we need far more oversight and accountability for law enforcement officers.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Now please look up crime numbers committed by blacks in the US.


Completely irrelevant.  Police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner.  Least of all when responding to minor misdemeanors or non-violent crimes.  America is a melting pot, we aren't about to genocide African-Americans like China is doing with Uyghurs just for some ass-backward fascist concept of "justice."

The arrest numbers only further the point that police specifically target blacks and Latinos at a higher rate for common (petty) crimes, while the statistics show that all racial groups use and sell drugs at about the same rate.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What is your agenda here? I hope you at least admit that your numbers were completely wrong.


I was only wrong about the unarmed part.  Again, 1,126 people were shot and killed by police in 2020, and we're already above 700 for 2021.  My only "agenda" is to keep power-tripping cops in line by whatever means necessary.  I seriously doubt Derek Chauvin would've faced any charges whatsoever if not for the nationwide response following George Floyd's murder.  One bad cop jailed, thousands more to go.

Basically: I don't want to see America becoming China where police brutality doesn't even get reported any more, and they have unlimited authority with zero accountability.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 6, 2021)

stop derailing or do I have to call a moderator?


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> stop derailing or do I have to call a moderator?


That's fair, this conversation has gone on long enough.  Me and UltraDolphinRevolution obviously aren't going to agree on much, especially where the topic of authoritarianism and its enforcement mechanisms are concerned.  But to tie it all back together: I've already conceded that a limit specifically on online gaming isn't the worst thing in the world, it's just that oligarchs shouldn't be the ones setting such limits.  It's insane to imagine police knocking on a parent's door to arrest their 12-year-old for going an hour over his play time in Final Fantasy XIV.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Completely irrelevant.  Police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner.  Least of all when responding to minor misdemeanors or non-violent crimes.  America is a melting pot, we aren't about to genocide African-Americans like China is doing with Uyghurs just for some ass-backward fascist concept of "justice."


It is an odd genocide when the number of Uyghurs keeps growing. If the Chinese government wanted to genocide the Uyghurs, wouldn´t they want to limit their numbers? In fact, they were allowed to have more children than people of the ethnic majority.
The Uyghurs got violent when more and more Han people settled in their region. Since you like melting pots, you should actually call opposing Uyghurs "Uyghur supremacists" or "Nazis". But I do not expect consistency from you.



Xzi said:


> while the statistics show that all racial groups use and sell drugs at about the same rate.


I doubt that very much. Especially for Asians. They are also the least likely to be shot by police, do best in school and later in life. What a coincidence.



Xzi said:


> Basically: I don't want to see America becoming China where police brutality doesn't even get reported any more, and they have unlimited authority with zero accountability.


Chinese police is not brutal. They are usually less armed than American police (since civilians usually do not have guns) and do not have unlimited authority. You can see how little force they used in Hong Kong. I believe not one protester died (but non-protesters have been killed by rioters).



Xzi said:


> It's insane to imagine police knocking on a parent's door to arrest their 12-year-old for going an hour over his play time in Final Fantasy XIV.


It is indeed insane to imagine. You have the imagination of an insane person. The 12-year-old would just be kicked from online gaming after 9pm (and could not enter before 8pm).


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is an odd genocide when the number of Uyghurs keeps growing.


Sounds like some CCP propaganda to me, the reports are very different from outside of China.  The US State Department officially classified China's actions as genocide in January of this year, and several international organizations had already done so prior.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I doubt that very much. Especially for Asians. They are also the least likely to be shot by police, do best in school and later in life. What a coincidence.


It's not coincidence, Asian-Americans are simply stereotyped in a different manner from other minority groups.  Generally they're seen as diminutive and non-threating by us tall, obese white Americans, citizens and police alike.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Chinese police is not brutal. They are usually less armed than American police (since civilians usually do not have guns) and do not have unlimited authority. You can see how little force they used in Hong Kong. I believe not one protester died (but non-protesters have been killed by rioters).


There's certainly been a concerted effort to make the violence less public since certain other violent events drew international criticism of the CCP, but torture and slavery behind closed doors is not somehow better from a moral or ethical standpoint.  A lot of those protestors were never seen again after their arrests.

Now we should probably stick with the topic at hand assuming this conversation is going to continue at all, lest the majority of the thread become subject to deletion.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is indeed insane to imagine. You have the imagination of an insane person. The 12-year-old would just be kicked from online gaming after 9pm (and could not enter before 8pm).


I was referring to a kid gaming at home, but I suppose even there the government has a watchful eye on them 24/7 and is capable of cutting off internet access.  Or perhaps they'd just take points off the kid's social credit score?


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Maybe u have not seen this part because it was edited to avoid double posting:


Xzi said:


> It's insane to imagine police knocking on a parent's door to arrest their 12-year-old for going an hour over his play time in Final Fantasy XIV.


It is indeed insane to imagine. You have the imagination of an insane person. The 12-year-old would just be kicked from online gaming after 9pm (and could not enter before 8pm).

BTW propaganda says nothing about the truth of a statement. You can propagate COVID19 vaccines. That does not make them not useful. It is simply a fact that their number has grown (and they are not restricted to the same birth restrictions). My propagating does not change it.

If you think you can "stereotype" a group of people into success in school, then the action of restricting online gaming surely helps. lol


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Maybe u have not seen this part because it was edited to avoid double posting:


Already replied to it, see above.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> BTW propaganda says nothing about the truth of a statement.


Propaganda is either the truth spun so hard that it becomes unrecognizable as such, or just straight-up bullshit.  In this case, it's the latter.  The government can claim whatever outrageous population numbers they want, and you're clearly willing to swallow and regurgitate them regardless.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you think you can "stereotype" a group of people into success in school, then the action of restricting online gaming surely helps. lol


I was talking about stereotyping in relation to police suspicion and arrests, not performance in school.  That's not within the purview of the police.  And since this is a ban on online gaming only, I don't suspect it will have any impact on the average student one way or another, many will just turn to offline gaming primarily instead.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Propaganda is either the truth spun so hard that it becomes unrecognizable as such, or just straight-up bullshit.  In this case, it's the latter.  The government can claim whatever outrageous population numbers they want, and you're clearly willing to swallow and regurgitate them regardless.


You believe anything the US state department says. So you find it incredible that Muslims reproduce above reproduction rate? This data was collected before the alleged genocide (though there was a new census recently as well). I think you should consume less Alex Jones. Did you get the arrest claim (regarding online gaming) from him?


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You believe anything the US state department says.


That's a big negatory, Ghost Rider.  I was calling China's actions against the Uyghurs genocide for well over a year prior to the State Department making that their official stance.  I don't wait for the government to call out human rights abuses for me.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> This data was collected before the alleged genocide


Well there you go.  Ultimately you can make statistics say whatever you want them to, but the pictures of ghost towns and Uyghurs being sent off to camps for "re-education" don't lie.  It's basically the same type of cultural genocide America and Canada inflicted on our indigenous populations some hundred years ago.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Did you get the arrest claim (regarding online gaming) from him?


Nah I just assumed that a person's social credit score dropping below a certain critical threshold automatically leads to arrest.  Is that not the case?


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## notimp (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nah I just assumed that a person's social credit score dropping below a certain critical threshold automatically leads to arrest. Is that not the case?


As far as I know it isnt, if your social credit score drops too low, you cant travel out of state anymore, you cant find good jobs, landlords wont like you, ...

Far better oppression method, because it makes you self censor behavior (if you still care), once it starts dropping kinda low.

edit: Actually that (banned from interstate travel) seems to happen once you are blacklisted: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

notimp said:


> As far as I know it isnt, if your social credit score drops too low, you cant travel out of state anymore, you cant find good jobs, landlords wont like you, ...
> 
> Far better oppression method, because it makes you self censor behavior (if you still care), once it starts dropping kinda low.
> 
> edit: Actually that seems to happen once you are blacklisted: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained


Oof yeah, being forced into poverty/homelessness first is actually worse in a number of ways, especially if you're then arrested after that.


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## FFTW (Sep 6, 2021)

I think the law is too strict length wise, but I do agree with imposing a limit on online gaming for minors, especially considering that offline gaming is (of course) unaffected.

Also, While I loath dictatorships, I agree with Ultra on the majority of what he said. Not all, but the majority.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

FFTW said:


> I think the law is too strict length wise, but I do agree with imposing a limit on online gaming for minors, especially considering that offline gaming is (of course) unaffected.



I also agree that it is too strict. One hour per day on weekends is nothing. It is equates to barely 5 or 6 average multiplayer matches. Chinese media already reported on server problems due to the spike of players at 8pm. How predictable.

Speaking of the social credit system: Nick Fuentes is on a no-fly list despite not having committed a crime. Ironically, I can only watch his show in China because he has been banned on all the American social media sites. So America has a social credit system as well. In America, corporations do most of the job though (except for the no-fly list).


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I also agree that it is too strict. One hour per day on weekends is nothing. It is equates to barely 5 or 6 average multiplayer matches.


_That's_ the line you choose to draw in the sand, eh?  Oh well, it's good to know there's at least some point where you're willing to push back against governmental overreach/abuse.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Speaking of the social credit system: Nick Fuentes is on a no-fly list despite not having committed a crime. Ironically, I can watch his show because he has been banned on all the American social media sites. So America has a social credit system as well. In America, corporations do most of the job though (except for the no-fly list).


Nick Fuentes is a neo-nazi who has made multiple threats of violence against multiple people.  It takes _a lot_ of effort to get yourself on the no-fly list (even with a criminal record) and turn yourself into social pariah that way.  That said, plenty of far-right sites still play host to his toxic bile and he still makes plenty of money off them, thus his situation is in no way similar to what the CCP inflicts on someone with a low social credit score.  

Blind nationalism clearly plays well in China, but thankfully it only resonates with about 40% of voters in the US.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nick Fuentes is a neo-nazi


How? Does he want to revive operation Barbarossa to conquer Russian territories? I think Neocons are more likely to do so than Virgin Nick. I do not agree with Nick with regards to immigration from Mexico, but his show can be entertaining if youtube is not available...

BTW do you regard alcohol restrictions for minors as governmental overreach? Why not?


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How?


Lol, have you read his Wikipedia page or any of its myriad citations?  The dude is practically full mask-off fascist.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> BTW do you regard alcohol restrictions for minors as governmental overreach? Why not?


Of course not.  We have decades of studies showing underage consumption of alcohol is really bad for brain development, and that's simply a restriction on business (within the public sphere).  It doesn't encroach on the parents' autonomy to make decisions for their children.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It doesn't encroach on the parents' autonomy to make decisions for their children.



Neither does the online gaming restriction.


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Neither does the online gaming restriction.


That's some top-level denial right there bud.  What if the parents wanted to set a 6-10 hour restriction instead?  Doesn't matter, Xinnie the Pooh already dictated the limit.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 6, 2021)

If they want their children to have a 6-10 hour restriction, they are gonna buy a new phone, register it under their name and give it to their children.


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## Xzi (Sep 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If they want their children to have a 6-10 hour restriction, they are gonna buy a new phone, register it under their name and give it to their children.


But then that would be committing *gasp* _a crime!_


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