# Theflow0



## acesmokemall (Apr 5, 2022)




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## chrisrlink (Apr 5, 2022)

look at it this way unlike nintendo who would put yyou under a perm NDA  (reason why ScireM disclosed fusee-geelee to nvidia themselves and not nintendo  on top of the security flaw affected more than the switch) Sony allows hackers to disclose after an embargo period of a few months after it is patched (at least) so don't fret on sony's half but seeing how the flow was treated in the past i would be skeptical of a release directly from him at least


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## godreborn (Apr 8, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> look at it this way unlike nintendo who would put yyou under a perm NDA  (reason why ScireM disclosed fusee-geelee to nvidia themselves and not nintendo  on top of the security flaw affected more than the switch) Sony allows hackers to disclose after an embargo period of a few months after it is patched (at least) so don't fret on sony's half but seeing how the flow was treated in the past i would be skeptical of a release directly from him at least


I agree.  if I were him, I'd release nothing after the way I was treated.  you can beat most people who had his skills would be wanting to cash in on it too rather than just releasing stuff to a public full of ungrateful people.


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## chrisrlink (Apr 9, 2022)

godreborn said:


> I agree.  if I were him, I'd release nothing after the way I was treated.  you can beat most people who had his skills would be wanting to cash in on it too rather than just releasing stuff to a public full of ungrateful people.


still doesn't mean someone else has the kexploit or found it themselves and are willing to share but i always wondered if he did share it in the tight group of devs and that dev goes rouge and relases it a head of time does the flow get in trouble (especially if the other dev is under no such conditions?) classic example the rouge dev was in a disagreement or wanted revenge


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## godreborn (Apr 9, 2022)

dunno, but I hope no exploit is released for the current firmware at the time, whatever that may be.  it's unfair to legit users, including myself, there needs to be a reason not to exploit your console, otherwise it's meaningless either way.


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## Tomato123 (Apr 9, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> still doesn't mean someone else has the kexploit or found it themselves and are willing to share but i always wondered if he did share it in the tight group of devs and that dev goes rouge and relases it a head of time does the flow get in trouble (especially if the other dev is under no such conditions?) classic example the rouge dev was in a disagreement or wanted revenge


Yes he would. I think you have to go under a non-disclosure agreement to actually submit things on Hackerone. The only way he could legally share what he submits to it would be through requesting disclosure on Hackerone. It doesn't matter if the exploit is not publicly shared by whoever he shares it with, he can't share it with anyone without breaking the NDA, which Sony would likely sue him for, unless some other terms are said within the NDA as to what happens if it is broken.

All you can do is wait and hope he wishes to help out the community one last time (And Sony allows it), but considering how he has been treated in the past I doubt he will.


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## godreborn (Apr 9, 2022)

certain people in the ps3 scene are the ones who made me want to quit, including the person who pissed off the fl0w, but I'm not going to.   I'm legit now though, so I don't know how helpful I'll be after the ps4.


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## cvskid (Apr 9, 2022)

acesmokemall said:


>



So this is what i've been hearing lately about people saying theflow0 is screwing over the community holding it back. Interesting.


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## subcon959 (Apr 10, 2022)

cvskid said:


> So this is what i've been hearing lately about people saying theflow0 is screwing over the community holding it back. Interesting.


I wonder how many people in the community would turn down 20 grand. He is gonna get hate either way so may as well make a living. Maybe the community should start treating devs better instead of being ungrateful haters.


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## ital (Apr 10, 2022)

Can you hear it? 

Thats the whine of the entitled. A species that multiples at an immense rate, are even louder than their numbers suggest and are for the most part entirely useless when it comes to anything of worth...


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## G33ksquad (Apr 10, 2022)

It’s not just 20k, I think it’s recognition of his skills, has anyone else found this? I’d say not if Sony was willing to give such a big payout. Also I’d imagine for any white hat this is a fantastic resume building item. I don’t know the individual myself but when you need to fund your passion or provide for your family, this seems like an obvious choice. What is the scene I am curious, a few people working hard and others donating $5 demanding piracy now.  Honestly as more and more games move to an online required connection, piracy will become pointless anyway.


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## rantex92 (Apr 10, 2022)

G33ksquad said:


> Honestly as more and more games move to an online required connection, piracy will become pointless anyway.


nope piracy is like drugs  it will never go away  + piracy  is the only "true" way for gaming preservation


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## Milenko (Apr 10, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I wonder how many people in the community would turn down 20 grand. He is gonna get hate either way so may as well make a living. Maybe the community should start treating devs better instead of being ungrateful haters.


If someone says they'd turn down $20,000 for credibility they're either a liar or a dirty liar


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## CanIHazWarez (Apr 12, 2022)

I'm okay with him rage-quitting.  What I'm not okay with is working for the "enemy".  Every exploit that he reports is one that gets patched and the opportunity is removed for someone else to discover it.  It might be understandable if he was getting paid big money, but he's not.



Milenko said:


> If someone says they'd turn down $20,000 for credibility they're either a liar or a dirty liar


To someone of that skill level, 20 grand is nothing.  And if it is something, then he's severely underpaid at his day job.  Sony pays a multitude of engineers, each one of them making six figures, to find stuff like this.  They didn't find it though, he did.  And all they paid him was 20k?  Even that is a lot compared to what he normally gets.  That's an embarrassingly low amount.


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## godreborn (Apr 12, 2022)

well, as they say "time is money."  I think what a lot of people forget about is how much time it takes to find these exploits or to develope homebrew to make processes super easy.  I can say I've donated dev-level time to the scenes, and on other sites, I was treated like shit, so I can empathize with the fl0w.  I mean you don't even have time to enjoy the fruits of your labor so to speak, because you're so involved with helping everyone else.  I'm friends with lightning mods, and he told me he rarely games anymore, all he's thinking about is the store, what can be added, how to make it easier.  you get a lot for free.


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## G33ksquad (Apr 13, 2022)

CanIHazWarez said:


> I'm okay with him rage-quitting.  What I'm not okay with is working for the "enemy".  Every exploit that he reports is one that gets patched and the opportunity is removed for someone else to discover it.  It might be understandable if he was getting paid big money, but he's not.
> 
> 
> To someone of that skill level, 20 grand is nothing.  And if it is something, then he's severely underpaid at his day job.  Sony pays a multitude of engineers, each one of them making six figures, to find stuff like this.  They didn't find it though, he did.  And all they paid him was 20k?  Even that is a lot compared to what he normally gets.  That's an embarrassingly low amount.


Is it though? I agree if this is all you do is bounty hunt, yea that could be low, I imagine many researchers have day jobs in policy and compliance, or are maybe pen testers. Maybe this is a hobby the thrill of finding it first. And 20k for a hobby is pretty cool, I imagine if this were to be released vs turned in you might be spending more than 20k after Sony comes after you, they might not be jailing the Bowser like Nintendo but I’d rather be on the good side.


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## RivenMain (Apr 14, 2022)

CanIHazWarez said:


> I'm okay with him rage-quitting.  What I'm not okay with is working for the "enemy".  Every exploit that he reports is one that gets patched and the opportunity is removed for someone else to discover it.  It might be understandable if he was getting paid big money, but he's not.


Only a sith deals in absolutes.  Maybe he does it because he.. Loves the company? It's just a puzzle, he found an answer and the game resets. Piracy isn't his focus, making money isn't his focus, and giving spoiled brats games isn't his either. He's dealt with enough and never will be credited for every hacked game sale out in india or china etc.  I can't think of a better f you than giving away his exploits to sony to piss people like you off hahaha


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## schatzi24 (Apr 15, 2022)

Yeah theflow0 did it again 10k for PS5 PS4
Hope the 4.03 JB for PS5 is near to disclose


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## Milenko (Apr 15, 2022)

CanIHazWarez said:


> To someone of that skill level, 20 grand is nothing.  And if it is something, then he's severely underpaid at his day job.  Sony pays a multitude of engineers, each one of them making six figures, to find stuff like this.  They didn't find it though, he did.  And all they paid him was 20k?  Even that is a lot compared to what he normally gets.  That's an embarrassingly low amount.


Even if I was making 6 figures I'd still be pretty stoked to get 20k... maybe you're rich or something but it's still a lot of money


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## subcon959 (Apr 15, 2022)

Milenko said:


> If someone says they'd turn down $20,000 for credibility they're either a liar or a dirty liar


The funny thing is, if you choose the 20K you get credibility in the real world where it actually matters.


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## smf (Apr 16, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> The funny thing is, if you choose the 20K you get credibility in the real world where it actually matters.


20k doesn't get you much in the way of credibility. It might get you some temporary attention from gold diggers.

It will however let you buy groceries and pay your bills.


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## smf (Apr 16, 2022)

Milenko said:


> Even if I was making 6 figures I'd still be pretty stoked to get 20k... maybe you're rich or something but it's still a lot of money


I reckon someone on a 6 figure salary is more obsessed with money than someone on a 5 figure salary.

If I were in that game then I'd probably do nothing other than bounties.


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## subcon959 (Apr 16, 2022)

smf said:


> 20k doesn't get you much in the way of credibility. It might get you some temporary attention from gold diggers.
> 
> It will however let you buy groceries and pay your bills.


I mean professionally.


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## smf (Apr 16, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I mean professionally.


You're going to have to explain that.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 16, 2022)

smf said:


> You're going to have to explain that.


It's something you can put in a portfolio to pad your resume.


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## MasterJ360 (Apr 16, 2022)

Regardless if you think 20k is low for a dev, this only embraces the possibility of a new exploit, damn I sure hope it was a PS5 bug


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## evertonstz (Apr 16, 2022)

smf said:


> 20k doesn't get you much in the way of credibility. It might get you some temporary attention from gold diggers.
> 
> It will however let you buy groceries and pay your bills.



You're missing the point, the credibility comes because it's another plus for his professional portfolio. It's not all about money, but it is a way to get more money, stability and career progression by proving seniority.
I would kill to have something like this in my software engineering curriculum, couldn't care less about a bunch of smelling children and burguer flippers that want to play games for free talking shit online.

IMO the only real error Flow and other good developers out there did was to ever associate with the homebrewing community.


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## smf (Apr 16, 2022)

evertonstz said:


> You're missing the point, the credibility comes because it's another plus for his professional portfolio. It's not all about money, but it is a way to get more money, stability and career progression by proving seniority.





Memoir said:


> It's something you can put in a portfolio to pad your resume.


You can put in on your CV whether you do it for money or as a hobby.

No recruiter is going to say "Sorry, no, because you didn't do that for money we aren't going to hire you even though it makes you perfect for this role". I know loads of people who got careers out of doing emulation stuff for free. My highest hourly wage came about from something I learned on my own time.

It really is just about the money, which is of course up to him.



evertonstz said:


> IMO the only real error Flow and other good developers out there did was to ever associate with the homebrewing community.


What bought you to gbatemp with that attitude?

I'm hoping for an exploit soon as I finally managed to snag a ps5 at retail price, no idea what firmware it's on yet (it's still sealed) but I figure if it's sitting in a box waiting then it will eventually happen.. Or not....


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## godreborn (Apr 16, 2022)

The biggest problem with these scenes is most people don't give a shit.  Most developers not only spend thousands of hours making stuff super easy, which let's be candid for a moment, you need to go legit if you still can't exploit your console, but developers have to pay for server costs.  Most of the people who actually donate are other developers.  With that being said, I'm not sure why some people are getting so angry when they've already proven they don't care about anyone but themselves.  A scene is supposed to be a community, not the same 50-100 people doing everything for thousands or even tens of thousands of people.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 16, 2022)

smf said:


> You can put in on your CV whether you do it for money or as a hobby.
> 
> No recruiter is going to say "Sorry, no, because you didn't do that for money we aren't going to hire you even though it makes you perfect for this role". I know loads of people who got careers out of doing emulation stuff for free. My highest hourly wage came about from something I learned on my own time.
> 
> ...


The money could purely be a bonus. TheFlow0 and other devs of their Caliber clearly have the expertise to make a substantial income off their knowledge. I sincerely doubt they're celebrating 20k. Being able to put down that you're plugging more than a few security holes for major corporations goes A LOT further than you think.


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## bbqtool (Apr 16, 2022)

Good on him. Early on during the infancy of Vita hacking, I couldn't walk for about a month. I spent whole days tinkering with my Vita. That's something I'm very grateful for because it kept me occupied and mentally active. It makes using my Vita extra special because of remembering that time. All the best. Enjoy the Sonybux.


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## bazamuffin (Apr 16, 2022)

The hate is mostly jealousy from the entitled.  The kid has put serious time into his exploits while people expect him to release (without them paying for it).  While the entitled sit there and wait for him to do the hard work and they reap the benefits,  I say crack on and I'm happy he's made a tidy sum from his work.  Why shouldn't he make cash from the hard work he puts in?


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## smf (Apr 16, 2022)

Memoir said:


> Being able to put down that you're plugging more than a few security holes for major corporations goes A LOT further than you think.


What are you talking about? He has a job at google as a security engineer and does this in his spare time.

Nobody would care whether he is getting paid or not, Sony would fix the vulnerabilities either way. It would still go on his CV.

He could disclose them to Sony for free and release them publicly if he wanted. He doesn't, because he wants the money.


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## Blasingame (Apr 16, 2022)

smf said:


> 20k doesn't get you much in the way of credibility. It might get you some temporary attention from gold diggers.
> 
> It will however let you buy groceries and pay your bills.



and that's 20k probably before taxes.


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## CompSciOrBust (Apr 16, 2022)

For the people saying this will get patched, that only increases your chances of getting access to it. Other developers will diff the old fw with the new one (comparing the files to see which bytes have changed) and then use the changes to figure out what changed and why. It's basically Sony putting up a big sign saying "LOOK HERE FOR HACKS!", the only downside is it can't be used on the latest firmware. This assumes that other developers already have that level of access but I'm sure they do. This is how the filesystem vulnerability was found on PS4.


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## godreborn (Apr 16, 2022)

I personally hope that the latest firmware is never publicly exploitable.  I'm thinking of legit users, who on the 360 and the ps3 have to put up with cheaters, syncing trophies with no repercussions.  as a legit user on the switch, ps5, and series x, it would make me very upset that I've spend thousands of dollars on games only to have a bunch of useless people get what I paid for for free.  and, by useless, I'm talking about the people who just swoop in and take what they want without actually contributing anything themselves.  it's kinda upsetting that a lot of uploaders are treated more respectfully than actual developers, and they're in it for efame and money, requiring likes or only uploading to hosts that pay you for uploads, when in reality, these people downloaded these games from top tier usenet and torrent sites, then plaster their sites or their own name all over them and upload them to some other site just to make money.  there are a lot of unscrupulous people in these scenes, believe me, as someone who's been very involved for over a decade.


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## seany1990 (Apr 16, 2022)

godreborn said:


> I personally hope that the latest firmware is never publicly exploitable.


The hackerone program pretty much means this will always be the case


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## MasterJ360 (Apr 17, 2022)

I dont think cheating online is much of a problem nowadays compared to the X360 era. Hell back then you could play burned copies of games online aslong you had flashed DVD drive (I still have mine) RIP that ISO site. But yeah anti cheat system is pretty strong now, Sony was detecting cfw on ps3's and Nintendo is atleast game banning ppl with edited save files in multiplayer games. So as for new FW exploits we might be getting 9.0.3 for ps4 and probably the 4th update FW on Ps5 hence mine is still on the 2nd update just b/c I wanted to play Genshin on it to get Aloy lol

@bazamuffin: The Flow isnt that type of guy that just show & tell his work. Honestly if it weren't for him the ps4 exploit wouldn't have made it pass 5.05. We made it this far b/c hes always finding new bugs, which hes well known for during the Vita scene. There will always be entitled ppl in every community it just depends on how certain devs respond to them. Im pretty sure its more of a dev vs dev type drama where other devs are jealous of his findings or try to price them for themselves to keep it in private. Probably the reason we have debates of ppl worrying about how 20k isn't that much to them, like who cares? Its his money lol


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## smf (Apr 17, 2022)

CompSciOrBust said:


> For the people saying this will get patched, that only increases your chances of getting access to it.


Yeah, now I actually have a PS5 that is going to sit in it's box (after I checked it's not DOA) then I don't care if it gets patched.

However I would prefer him to hold off finding too many more exploits, because it would be a shame if Sony patches everything so soon.


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## susi91 (Apr 17, 2022)

We got Kernel Exploits for PS4 6.72 / 7.50-7.52 and 9.00, because he's able to find bugs and report them to H1.
Awesome guy. 
Not to mention all the PS Vita stuff, legendary.


smf said:


> Yeah, now I actually have a PS5 that is going to sit in it's box


Me too 


smf said:


> (after I checked it's not DOA)


Wait, does this happen often? Do they ship broken PS5s?
I've kept one bundle sealed... 


smf said:


> However I would prefer him to hold off finding too many more exploits, because it would be a shame if Sony patches everything so soon.


I guess he can't wait too long, someone else may find bugs too.

I'm curious if we need a full or partial disclose from him or if developers can diff the changes from the update again, like for 9.00.


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## godreborn (Apr 17, 2022)

it's up to the dev/hacker whether or not they disclose the information.  also, I read over sony's stipulations on hacker one.  if you were to release something without their consent, you can be banned from their program.  and, if you release something that hurts their customers or themselves, you could be sued.  though, the hacker one program is a win-win for the most part.


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## smf (Apr 17, 2022)

susi91 said:


> Wait, does this happen often? Do they ship broken PS5s?
> I've kept one bundle sealed...


I have no idea, I guess it's possible. 

The shop said that they have a short returns policy but they wouldn't be able to offer a replacement.
Otherwise it will be up to the manufacturers warranty.


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## godreborn (Apr 17, 2022)

tbh, I'd probably check it too if I was going to store it for a while or maybe periodically check it.


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## Nakamichi (Apr 18, 2022)

theflow0 really blows my mind. all the awesome things he has managed to achieve.

i find it extremely aspirational, too

i would also like to have 10.000 dollars in cash someday.


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## G33ksquad (Apr 18, 2022)

Nakamichi said:


> theflow0 really blows my mind. all the awesome things he has managed to achieve.
> 
> i find it extremely aspirational, too
> 
> i would also like to have 10.000 dollars in cash someday.


Same, it’s pretty cool, my expertise is policy and compliance, I don’t even know where to begin other than looking at CVEs, how to actually implement some of these against the PS5 OS, totally beyond me. As far as having 10K, take your knowledge and learn more, browse these forums, keep learning, you’d be surprised where you’ll end up in 10-20 years. I once wanted to mod a PS2, and now I’m a cyber analyst, you can get there!


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