# Are you a right-wing or a left-wing?



## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

I don't want to create any discussions here, I'm just curious.

Actually, discussions are nice as long as there are no death threats or some stupid shit like that, be civil.

EDIT: Just realized this is my 666th post.


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## proflayton123 (Jan 9, 2017)

Personally, I am neutral wing


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

proflayton123 said:


> Personally, I am neutral wing


 
Just wish there were more people like that. Kind of rare these days.


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## AlanJohn (Jan 9, 2017)

Dividing the political situation into black and white views is stupid. This is the main reason why America underwhelms in the sense of a democracy - you have a choice only between 2 political views relative to their party, and any third is laughed upon.


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## Piluvr (Jan 9, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Just wish there were more people like that. Kind of rare these days.


to be honest, it is best to not go too far into either side, as there tend to be more extremists. I am neutral as well.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

I'm socialist, but I have some views that would be considered "conservative" as well. So, kind of a mixed basket


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

Piluvr said:


> to be honest, it is best to not go too far into either side, as there tend to be more extremists. I am neutral as well.



I am aware of that. I'm a right wing, not extreme, just a right wing.


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## Issac (Jan 9, 2017)

For me it's different depending on which country we're looking at.


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm socialist, but I have some views that would be considered "conservative" as well. So, kind of a mixed basket



That's odd lol  In Brazil we have communists that are going to vote for the right-wing christian candidate in 2018. Very weird.


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## x65943 (Jan 9, 2017)

I think that there are a lot of ways to solve issues, and that* BOTH* a regulated form of capitalism *AND* a form of moderate socialism that encourages private enterprise are capable of producing a happy and productive society.

I feel strongly about personal freedom, and I believe that human rights are essential to any functional/productive society.

I like the Libertarian party in the US for their social ideas about freedom, but I don't like the laissez faire capitalist approach.
I like some of what the Republicans say about fiscal conservatism, but that party is marred by its social proselytizing.
The democrats aren't progressives, and I feel like they are honestly more centrists than anything at this point.


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

But seriously I consider myself a bit of a Market Anarchist border-lining Nozickian Minarchism


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## grossaffe (Jan 9, 2017)

No.


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## Jao Chu (Jan 9, 2017)

My political compass test has me right in the middle, in the graphical representation, i was only a few pixels inside the right-wing libertarian box. 

Myself and my family are all highly skilled blue collar workers and our types tend to lean to the right a little bit, i guess.

I dislike political correctness and PC culture with a passion though. If you try to tell me what i can and can't do/say, i'm going to tell you to fuck off in a very unpleasant way


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## Aerocool (Jan 9, 2017)

Well, Im against all sorts of discrimmination but I think we should not let everyone in our country. There are coming a lot of idiots who abuse our system and refuse to intigrate. We should help those who need our help, those who are escaping from war and are willing to intigrate. I dont care if someone who comes to us is muslim, jew or whatever, but I start to worry when they do not respect our culture and system, when they are unwilling to intigrate. I would consider myself neutral, but many People here (in Germany) would put me in the right wing , some would call me a Nazi for this opinion.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Jao Chu said:


> I dislike political correctness and PC culture with a passion though. If you try to tell me what i can and can't do/say, i'm going to tell you to fuck off in a very unpleasant way


I've noticed lol

I guess what I don't understand is how "being polite" turned into "being Politically Correct"


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## Minox (Jan 9, 2017)

I'm neither. I would like to be a decent human being with my own thoughts and ideas. These ideas sometimes align with one side or the other and I'd like to keep them that way.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

Center right.
But the Argentinian POV of center right would probably be considered left in the rest of the world.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Center right.
> But the Argentinian POV of center right would probably be considered left in the rest of the world.


Definitely America, dunno about Europe though. Center for the EU is significantly further left than America's, anyway


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Definitely America, dunno about Europe though. Center for the EU is significantly further left than America's, anyway


But also it is hard to compare American and other political parties since also in addition to the way that political issues are viewed, some issues are solely regional which makes it hard to compare.


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## Bubsy Bobcat (Jan 9, 2017)

I dunno, politics are dumb and we're all fucked no matter what happens.


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## osaka35 (Jan 9, 2017)

social liberal, fiscally conservative. Basically, let's make sure all the poor are fed and housed well, but let's make sure we do it as economically as possible so as to not ruin our budget doing it.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> social liberal, fiscally conservative. Basically, let's make sure all the poor are fed and housed well, but let's make sure we do it as economically as possible so as to not ruin our budget doing it.


(Fun fact we have enough housing in America to shelter the current estimated homeless population comfortably and if we put solar farms in the uninhabitable parts of the Painted Desert we could sustainably and cleanly power the nation. The only thing holding us back from inexpensively taking care of social issues is corporate tradition/greed)


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

'Don said:


> Well, Im against all sorts of discrimmination but I think we should not let everyone in our country. There are coming a lot of idiots who abuse our system and refuse to intigrate. We should help those who need our help, those who are escaping from war and are willing to intigrate. I dont care if someone who comes to us is muslim, jew or whatever, but I start to worry when they do not respect our culture and system, when they are unwilling to intigrate. I would consider myself neutral, but many People here (in Germany) would put me in the right wing , some would call me a Nazi for this opinion.



Germany is cucked and Europe is falling, ignore their opinions and never give up on the fight.
I think the same way. Bringing in immigrants that do not want to follow the rules of your society and kill every "infidel" should not be allowed.
If you want to immigrate somewhere, you HAVE to follow that country's values and respect the people who let you in.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> I think the same way. Bringing in immigrants that do not want to follow the rules of your society and kill every "infidel" should not be allowed.


See here's the thing that I don't get. The refugee population is by definition the population that is trying to escape from conflict. If there were extremists, would they not be joining in with ISIS and the other extremist groups in their own country?

I get the point you're trying to make, but don't paint this into a picture of "refugees=doom and destruction," it's more of an issue of "a small percentage of a religion being radicalized and militarized=doom, destruction and mass hysteria"


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jan 9, 2017)

Here in France I consider my self as a centrist. But in USA I'd certainly be left-wing considering the fact that American Democrats are considered here as right-wing


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## DinohScene (Jan 9, 2017)

I don't care about society nor do I care about politics.
It's corrupt anyway.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jan 9, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I don't care about society nor do I care about politics.
> It's corrupt anyway.


In France the far-right party is getting more and more votes because of abstentionnists who say they don't care (mostly young people).


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> See here's the thing that I don't get. The refugee population is by definition the population that is trying to escape from conflict. If there were extremists, would they not be joining in with ISIS and the other extremist groups in their own country?
> 
> I get the point you're trying to make, but don't paint this into a picture of "refugees=doom and destruction," it's more of an issue of "a small percentage of a religion being radicalized and militarized=doom, destruction and mass hysteria"


In addition I would argue that for the state to place ANY restrictions on this migration would be harmful as individuals have a prima facie right to immigrate such as they should have to arms ownership as restrictions are harmful and coercive by nature.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 9, 2017)

My dominant claw for the most part is the right one so I guess if it was a wing it would be that too.

One of those questions and make a graph quizzes had a radar chart at the end with left and right opposing and conservative and liberal on the opposing on the other. Like most such quizzes it was probably only a window into the quiz maker's mind but such a thing intrigued me as more than a binary thing.

That said we would probably have to qualify it as there are a variety of talking points that what nominally left and right wing in one place would be non issues in another. For instance American conservatives seem to like abortion as a distraction topic, everywhere else I go other than Ireland and to a lesser extent some places in Eastern Europe it is a sorted thing that nobody really complains about. It is a thing that exists, end of, if you don't like it then don't get one and even the thing some places in the US have going on of increasing nonsense laws to do death by a thousand cuts would be almost unheard of.
Likewise what people view as big government and small government varies dramatically as "states rights" is far far far less of a thing, you get a few internal regions kicking off from time to time (Belgium for a small case, maybe Scotland but and maybe the whole Catalan independence thing) and the current directionless fun and games of the UK exit from Europe in Europe but it is not close to what the US has going on there. Similarly government services and welfare seem far more accepted -- if the current conservative UK government declared a desire to change the NHS to maybe head vaguely in the direction of current US healthcare tomorrow it would be political suicide.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> In France the far-right party is getting more and more votes because of abstentionnists who say they don't care (mostly young people).


The world kind of seems to be tending more right-wing right now, mostly because a lot of people don't like globalism (I think?...)

Which I personally don't understand. Would someone care to explain to me why someone WOULDN'T favor globalism over nationalism?


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## DinohScene (Jan 9, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> In France the far-right party is getting more and more votes because of abstentionnists who say they don't care (mostly young people).



I really do no care.
I don't vote cause I got better things to do.


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Which I personally don't understand. Would someone care to explain to me why someone WOULDN'T favor globalism over nationalism?


Because globalism in some sense is seen as a threat to the tribal mentality that we as human beings have and naturally seek to attack the opposing clans.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

TBH I live in the beautiful bad-weather-cursed land of Germany, and there are refugees right and left, but I've never had any kind of problem with them.
I've had many of them as colleagues and coworkers during my time on college, and they were not as closed minded or problematic as the media tries to make you believe. And TBH, the media sure made me racist and fearful before having a direct day to day contact.
That said I've mostly had contact with refugees that have higher education and are professionals.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

RevPokemon said:


> Because globalism in some sense is seen as a threat to the tribal mentality that we as human beings have and naturally seek to attack the opposing clans.


That can't be the ONLY reason... I mean, I know that the "us vs them" mentality is pretty heavily ingrained in most people's minds but there has to be an actual benefit other than isolation and fear... right?...

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sarkwalvein said:


> TBH I live in the beautiful bad-weather-cursed land of Germany, and there are refugees right and left, but I've never had any kind of problem with them.
> I've had many of them as colleagues and coworkers during my time on college, and they were not as closed minded or problematic as the media tries to make you believe. And TBH, the media sure made me racist and fearful before having a direct day to day contact.
> That said I've mostly had contact with refugees that have higher education and are professionals.


THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

Right wing and glad it's making a comeback in 'Merica. People are finally tired of the liberal lies and biased agenda.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jan 9, 2017)

Here in France, basically people are just jerks who want to work less and earn more money. So whenever a government tries to change the smallest thing in how things work Inside companies, those freaking communists start to go down in Streets and demonstrate. (And then the govt. is criticized by the same people for not changing anything). I'm basically a liberal, which is very rare in my country. Socialists just follow communists, both communists and far-right people are just populists who could sink the economy in lest than two days, and finally Republicans are mainly conservatives who don't change anything. For ex. I consider that the State shouldn't be spending billions of dollars to 'help' unemployed people/workers and that the more you work, the more you earn. But French people want higher wages, an universal revenue for 'poor' people and unemployed people, and they even want to cut big CEOs' salaries x)


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Right wing and glad it's making a comeback in 'Merica. People are finally tired of the liberal lies and biased agenda.


May I ask for a few examples, just to satisfy a curiosity?


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## romanaOne (Jan 9, 2017)

I wish I hadn't been born in the US and wasted most of my youth in a country that has always been half-mad, hopped up on bad beer, guns, and religion.  Should have escaped when I had the chance.... No matter how much money you make, it will all go into medical and dental bills. It becomes much harder to emigrate when you get older.  

Fuck you, Donald J. Trump.


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## darkangel5000 (Jan 9, 2017)

I don't give a shit about left or right-wingism.
Let's say I welcome every refugee that's coming to europe because that's their fucking right to do.
Wouldn't you love to not die when there's war in front of your door?
But I also say that there must be stricter controls about who we REALLY let in.
"Yeah, you 'lost' your passport. How unfortunate. Come in." ... _Come in?_ Fuck off.

So in the eyes of most right-wing assholes in this country I'd by a socialist-marxist fuckboy because I wouldn't shoot ships full of refugees in the mediterreanan sea, so they can't come here.
In the eyes of most left-wing assholes in this country I'd be a dumb nationalist that only cares for his country, because I don't unconditionally love everyone that comes here.


So mostly I shut my yap about this in this whole shitty situation we're currently in.
Regarding my mental health and blood pressure It's for the best.


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That can't be the ONLY reason... I mean, I know that the "us vs them" mentality is pretty heavily ingrained in most people's minds but there has to be an actual benefit other than isolation and fear... right?...


Well in historical context movements like these were largely in that mold of us vs them and I would argue to the point you made that fear is indeed a large part but if one looks at it than you can obviously see how fear is perhaps the biggest motivator in politics regardless of the topic.


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## Zorua (Jan 9, 2017)

I'm not a wing, I'm a person.


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## grossaffe (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The world kind of seems to be tending more right-wing right now, mostly because a lot of people don't like globalism (I think?...)
> 
> Which I personally don't understand. Would someone care to explain to me why someone WOULDN'T favor globalism over nationalism?


Because one size does not fit all.  Granularity better encompasses the people.  It's why America is the United States Of America and not the Homogenous Entity Of America.  Different people of different regions have different wants, needs, and desires.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> May I ask for a few examples, just to satisfy a curiosity?



1) The lack of coverage on all the Hillary/Podesta emails, Sanders supporting Hillary after the Podesta emails (LOL), controversy with the Clinton Foundation all overlooked by CNN/NBC.
2) Van Jones from CNN calling this election a "Whitelash" and no outrage from the liberals.
3) What NAFTA has done to the mid-west.
4) Obamacare (I'm ready for TrumpCare!).
etc...

You had states that finally started to understand Washington has not had their backs.



romanaOne said:


> I wish I hadn't been born in the US and wasted most of my youth in a country that has always been half-mad, hopped up on bad beer, guns, and religion.  Should have escaped when I had the chance.... No matter how much money you make, it will all go into medical and dental bills. It becomes much harder to emigrate when you get older.
> 
> Fuck you, Donald J. Trump.



Good, get out of the country then. Take all your "money" and move to a socialist country. Meanwhile those of us who haven't given up on our country (despite the last 8 years), we will try to stop that Obamacare fiasco so that premiums don't go up by 20%.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Here in France, basically people are just jerks who *want to work less and earn more money*. So whenever a government tries to change the smallest thing in how things work Inside companies, those freaking communists start to go down in Streets and demonstrate. (And then the govt. is criticized by the same people for not changing anything). I'm basically a liberal, which is very rare in my country. Socialists just follow communists, both communists and far-right people are just populists who could sink the economy in lest than two days, and finally Republicans are mainly conservatives who don't change anything. For ex. *I consider that the State shouldn't be spending billions of dollars to 'help' unemployed people/workers and that the more you work, the more you earn. But French people want higher wages, an universal revenue for 'poor' people and unemployed people, and they even want to cut big CEOs' salaries x)*


You know, that is the exact thing of "socialism" I am against.
On the one side, let the government make a good health system attainable by every working person, I am in. Let the government invest in improving and making accessible higher good quality education for all the population, I am in, a better educated population leads to better life standards and better economy after all. And this thinking would put me in "left" according to Americans.
Buuut, when the government goes the extra demagogic step of giving you free ride, giving you free-for-all social help making your life easy so you don't even have to work or care, no, that is an insult to every hard working person, that is the "left" as we know it in Argentina at least, and that is the left I'm completely against.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The world kind of seems to be tending more right-wing right now, mostly because a lot of people don't like globalism (I think?...)
> 
> Which I personally don't understand. Would someone care to explain to me why someone WOULDN'T favor globalism over nationalism?


I guess I will be the guy to talk about a ted talk in a thread.

I watched a fascinating presentation on the government of China that I can not seem to find right now. The takeaway was though that China is huge and as basic human brains consider 5m around them pretty much always, unless you are looking down binoculars/a scope in which case said awareness is shifted, you might be peripherally aware of 200m around you, could probably navigate well to around halfway to the horizon and get where you needed to anywhere to the horizon. To that end the regions of China have a fair amount of autonomy when all is said and done to get local stuff sorted -- some town 200km away is without water and that is unfortunate news, closer and I might be there with a spade. To that end even with the best of intentions and even with modern tech then having a central authority provision a world is a hard task.
I would personally go with try anyway but some favour a less optimistic route, and as that kind of works OK at this point (there is no shit above ground, people are fed and watered, pot and dead bodies are an uncommon site in the streets) there is a strong argument for that.

On the rise of the right wing then there were some great studies done in the US. Turned out a lot of Republican senators (technically not a job for life but functionally so for most -- https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/reelect.php , even in the absolute nadir in living/recent memory it was 55%) found their support base eroded somewhat when an even more hardline person appeared and depending upon the system in place either had spoiler effect in the general or their nomination snatched out from under them, seeing this some adopted positions to try to sway some of those hardline people back and you end up with feature creep of a sort).
You see it on the other side of the political spectrum, if indeed there can be said to be one, where some try to take a holier than thou position and end up in an arms race the other way and you end up with fun speech and action laws being proposed.


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The world kind of seems to be tending more right-wing right now, mostly because a lot of people don't like globalism (I think?...)
> 
> Which I personally don't understand. Would someone care to explain to me why someone WOULDN'T favor globalism over nationalism?



Because globalism doesn't work, everyone has different views and different cultures exist. You can't throw everyone together and tell "Be nice to each other". Look at Europe.



Also, I'm kinda worried by the fact that left has more votes than right here :S I'm feeling out of place a bit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



romanaOne said:


> I wish I hadn't been born in the US and wasted most of my youth in a country that has always been half-mad, hopped up on bad beer, guns, and religion.  Should have escaped when I had the chance.... No matter how much money you make, it will all go into medical and dental bills. It becomes much harder to emigrate when you get older.
> 
> Fuck you, Donald J. Trump.



That's the dumbest shit I've read today.
Get a time machine and come to the socialist liberal "wonderland" that Brazil was before we impeached our president. I wish I had been born in the USA so I didn't have to go through fucking that.
You sound like a wannabe hipster kid who's 12 and thinks that capitalism doesn't work because your dad didn't buy you chocolate.


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## x65943 (Jan 9, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Because globalism doesn't work, everyone has different views and different cultures exist. You can't throw everyone together and tell "Be nice to each other". Look at Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The left and right votes are pretty even in this thread. Honestly, left and right are set up in each country to try to get the most votes. What happens is that you usually end up in a situation where half of the people are on the left and half of the people are on the right - because if one side ever dips below about 50% it will change to address just enough issues to gain back parity with the other side or advantage. 

It's actually a testament to how conservative this site is that its mostly youth members are even close to half/half - since statistically youth are much more likely to vote left.


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

x65943 said:


> The left and right votes are pretty even in this thread. Honestly, left and right are set up in each country to try to get the most votes. What happens is that you usually end up in a situation where half of the people are on the left and half of the people are on the right - because if one side ever dips below about 50% it will change to address just enough issues to gain back parity with the other side or advantage.
> 
> It's actually a testament to how conservative this site is that its mostly youth members are even close to half/half - since statistically youth are much more likely to vote left.



Just to show that young people are dumb 
Jk, I'm 15 and I'm a conservative, but so are all my friends here. I just live in a predominantly right-wing province, I'm not used to ideology mixing irl.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> That's the dumbest shit I've read today.
> Get a time machine and come to the socialist liberal "wonderland" that Brazil was before we impeached our president. I wish I had been born in the USA so I didn't have to go through fucking that.
> You sound like a wannabe hipster kid who's 12 and thinks that capitalism doesn't work because your dad didn't buy you chocolate.


What does college cost down there?


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> What does college cost down there?



Decent one? About $400 per month. ( USD )

EDIT: You can probably find them for cheaper, and some less important smaller courses are cheaper too. But $400 is what my dad payed for civil engineering, took 4 years and a half.


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## x65943 (Jan 9, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Decent one? About $400 per month. ( USD )


So about 12,800 USD For undergrad. That's pretty cheap. Just classes right? Room and board are separate?


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 9, 2017)

x65943 said:


> So about 12,800 USD For undergrad. That's pretty cheap. Just classes right? Room and board are separate?



I don't actually know about that. Dad just told me how much he payed. I don't really understand a lot about college seeing as how I'm in high school :s


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## Deleted-384698 (Jan 9, 2017)

i am slavoj zizek himself


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Decent one? About $400 per month. ( USD )









And you wonder why young people favor socialism


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## Deleted-384698 (Jan 9, 2017)

socialism is the natural evolution of capitalism and we needn't do anything but prevent people from preventing progress > : )


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

I really love the Argentinean and German higher education systems. Specially every time I read those prices that just put many people dedicated to studying out of the system making them stay eternally on a given "class" because they were born on it. 

(Actually I prefer the German system. The absolute 0 cost Argentinian one leads to eternal free riding "students")


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> And you wonder why young people favor socialism



The only problem is... who's gonna cover the cuts to the cost? Also a lot of that is due to the big universities need to fund their sports programs.

There is so many variables that go into those stats.

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sarkwalvein said:


> I really love the Argentinean and German higher education systems. Specially every time I read those prices that just put many people dedicated to studying out of the system making them stay eternally on a given "class" because they were born on it.
> 
> (Actually I prefer the German system. The absolute 0 cost Argentinian one leads to eternal free riding "students")



LOL, you are generalizing. I was not born in a class to cover those costs but had to work and study part time to make it. It's not impossible or even that difficult to go to college here.

Although I do prefer the wages I make in the US, I make 4x what my European counterparts do!


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## Deleted-384698 (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> The only problem is... who's gonna cover the cuts to the cost? Also a lot of that is due to the big universities need to fund their sports programs.
> 
> There is so many variables that go into those stats.


those who have allotted more wealth than needed
the common argument is they worked for it
but the capitalist ideology is arbitrary
it can be equally believed that it would be honorable to give for the lower class
a favorable ideology can't be falsified by the nature of the people currently within another since they grew up in it
in this way the natural evolution toward a favorable ideology is inevitable because of the conditions surrounding new generations
but just because they conflict with the old doesn't make them invalid


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> And you wonder why young people favor socialism


As for 4 yr public universities you need to consider that the smaller non flagships cost alot less and due to the location of most you can commute reasonably which also means that with okish grades and what not it really is not that expensive


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## Katsumi San (Jan 9, 2017)

Hmm... how to know this.. certain test in saito?


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

sunnaryt said:


> those who have allotted more wealth than needed
> the common argument is they worked for it
> but the capitalist ideology is arbitrary
> it can be equally believed that it would be honorable to give for the lower class
> ...



I think the problem is who's choice it should be to manage the excess wealth a person one has accumulated: the individual? the state? the federal government?

There are so many more points to this argument.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

Really? I am completely fine with what I do in Germany, even after almost 50% of my salary is directly deducted as taxes and social security.
The levels of peacefulness and well being that come together with an educated society totally justifies the price we pay IMHO, it is a bargain actually.


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## elBenyo (Jan 9, 2017)

I am a technological Marxist. Technology alone could free man from modern economic slavery.


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## Deleted-384698 (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> I think the problem is who's choice it should be to manage the excess wealth a person one has accumulated: the individual? the state? the federal government?
> 
> There are so many more points to this argument.


depends on your personal leftist view
the state or the people or the syndicate or the community
there are many subsets of this ideology
likely the answer for now is "whatever is easiest to implement from where we are"
but that is a whole discussion within itself and for a further date when the evolution is farther
marx himself did not believe such ideas could be implemented overnight (i'm looking at you ussr)


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## Yil (Jan 9, 2017)

For me government should remain secretive of its entire existence and any attempt of tangible leadership must be ridden should the situation allows.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Really? I am completely fine with what I do in Germany, even after almost 50% of my salary is directly deducted as taxes and social security.
> The levels of peacefulness and well being that come together with an educated society totally justifies the price we pay IMHO, it is a bargain actually.



There is many societies that meet various levels of peacefulness, education, income, etc... Germany is not the last wonder of the world.


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## Deleted-355425 (Jan 9, 2017)

Right wing and proud.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> There is many societies that meet various levels of peacefulness, education, income, etc... Germany is not the last wonder of the world.


Sure, but you are just dodging the bullet.
I mean, compared to America I think it is quite a better place to live in, and I am attributing it to higher education levels, that come with better access to higher education for the common people.

PS: and if I didn't make it clear I consider myself center right, I am one of those who voted right up there.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Sure, but you are just dodging the bullet.
> I mean, compared with America I think it is quite a better place to live in, and I am attributing it to higher education levels.



No I'm not dodging the bullet, and no it is not a better place to live in. There is no statistical significance in education between developed countries such as the US, UK, Germany, etc..:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

If anything the US stacks up better than some of these so called "socialist utopias"

So yes I will take living here where education is higher, companies pay more, and tax me 25% less.....


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> No I'm not dodging the bullet, and not it is not a better place to live in. There is no statistical significance in education between developed countries such as the US, UK, Germany:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment
> 
> ...


Well, I don't, because I find this a better place to live, as in reduced criminality, way less racial related abuse and crime, a police system that actually works for the citizen and is useful/helpful for the citizen, etc.

And we could keep it going like idiots.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Well, I don't, because I find this a better place to live, as in reduced criminality, way less racial related abuse and crime, a police system that actually works for the citizen and is useful/helpful for the citizen, etc.
> 
> And we could keep it going like idiots.



We could and you can keep trying to tell yourself Germany is better than America....


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> We could and you can keep trying to tell yourself Germany is better than America....


I don't try, I succeed. But what do you do? Still don't realize we are in the realm of personal preferences? Of course we can keep it going, but it is fruitless, an exercise of stubbornness.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I don't try, I succeed. But what do you do? Still don't realize we are in the realm of personal preferences? Of course we can keep it going, but it is fruitless, an exercise of stubbornness.



LOL ok Che.


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## The Catboy (Jan 9, 2017)

I tend to lean towards logic. Logical ideas to me, everyone is human and thus they deserve the same rights, other people's lives are none of my business, guns are a right, but need some regulations, human health should never be capitalized upon, and things like that.
Most people consider these to be "Left-Wing" ideas, I just think of them as logical.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> No I'm not dodging the bullet, and no it is not a better place to live in. There is no statistical significance in education between developed countries such as the US, UK, Germany, etc..:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment
> 
> ...


The data changes a bit when you look at the "6 year education or equivalent" tab


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> The data changes a bit when you look at the "6 year education or equivalent" tab



It does, but my point is there really is no statistically significant difference between these countries.
If we ran stats models on the data for these summaries we will find that the two populations such as the US and Germany overlap greatly.


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## Deleted User (Jan 9, 2017)

I'm a extreme social anarchist feminist trying to rid the world of white male cis-scum you shitlord

Nah, I tend to lean more right then anything.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> It does, but my point is there really is no statistically significant difference between these countries.
> If we ran stats models on the data for these summaries we will find that the two populations such as the US and Germany overlap greatly.


I'd be interested in seeing the percentage of amount of debt over $2k between all the countries before I make conclusions. While FAFSA and scholarships exist, student loans are still a very prominent and accepted part of American culture


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> While FAFSA and scholarships exist, student loans are still a very prominent and accepted part of American culture


It depends though as alot of student debt is arguably partially on choices such as which college one attends (more expensive privates vs non flagship publics for example) and also the fact that most students just do not know sht about finaid. I mean college is pretty cheap if you know what you are doing


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'd be interested in seeing the percentage of amount of debt over $2k between all the countries before I make conclusions. While FAFSA and scholarships exist, student loans are still a very prominent and accepted part of American culture



That's definitely a point of discussion, but from personal experience student loans do not make it impossible to go to school.
I think this is what I disagree the most about with my libby friends, they exaggerate the impact of student loans on people attending schools. 

Fact is, young people are going to college just as much as any other region of the world.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

RevPokemon said:


> It depends though as alot of student debt is arguably partially on choices such as which college one attends (more expensive privates vs non flagship publics for example) and also the fact that most students just do not know sht about finaid. I mean college is pretty cheap if you know what you are doing


Agreed, but some people don't and/or wouldn't be getting the quality education they would be elsewhere

For instance, I'm going to a private college but going for free since my parents work there (part of the employee benefits). However, fine print states that I must stay on campus for at least my first year, and room/board is in itself a pretty penny


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Ideologically I come off as someone who's about as right as can be without crossing into weird Nazi territory, but I like to think of myself as a common sense, middle-ground guy. I strongly believe in individual liberties and the right to determine your own fate. I oppose the nanny state - the government stepping in and telling grown adults what they can and can't do with their own lives, what they can and can't ingest, what they can and can't buy or sell or who they can or can't sleep with. I reject the idea that the government "knows what's good for me" better than I do, nor do I want it to protect me from myself. I don't buy the whole shtick about "social contracts" and other assorted nonsense - we're all just a bunch of individuals working towards our own personal benefit, occasionally ending up working together towards some mutually beneficial result. Market mechanisms such as supply and demand organise society far more efficiently than a bunch of old men and women in fancy jackets who get paid far too much for doing far too little. The government exists for one purpose, and one purpose only - to provide and maintain an environment in which citizens may live safely and conduct business with each other by trading goods and services - that's it. The moment they try to legislate morality, they're stepping over a line they should never cross. The shortest way to describe myself would be "libertarian", as you've probably gathered by the description above.


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## RevPokemon (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Agreed, but some people don't and/or wouldn't be getting the quality education they would be elsewhere


Well the quality part can be subjective as it greatly depends on what you are going for but I still argue that in that case you would still be able to determine on which is better of the two of lower cost vs better schooling which in many cases in an interesting case.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Ideologically I come off as someone who's about as right as can be without crossing into weird Nazi territory, but I like to think of myself as a common sense, middle-ground guy. I strongly believe in individual liberties and the right to determine your own fate. I oppose the nanny state - the government stepping in and telling grown adults what they can and can't do with their own lives, what they can and can't ingest, what they can and can't buy or sell or who they can or can't sleep with. I reject the idea that the government "knows what's good for me" better than I do, nor do I want it to protect me from myself. I don't buy the whole shtick about "social contracts" and other assorted nonsense - we're all just a bunch of individuals working towards our own personal benefit, occasionally ending up working together towards some mutually beneficial result. Market mechanisms such as supply and demand organise society far more efficiently than a bunch of old men and women in fancy jackets who get paid far too much for doing far too little. The government exists for one purpose, and one purpose only - to provide and maintain an environment in which citizens may live safely and conduct business with each other by trading goods and services - that's it. The moment they try to legislate morality, they're stepping over a line they should never cross. The shortest way to describe myself would be "libertarian", as you've probably gathered by the description above.


So... an anarchist?


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Jan 9, 2017)

I dislike right/left wing labels, because they tend to group people in a way that makes it easy to develop a hatred for those sides. In my experience, debating specific policies or issues is much more productive than the left/right wing debate.


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## Ericthegreat (Jan 9, 2017)

It is kind of sad for people to go hard one way or the other, both party's have their faults, so always make decisions on your own choices.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> So... an anarchist?


I'm not an anarchist - anarchy is lack of order, and I like order. Someone needs to uphold the law. I'm a proponent of a minimal state - very few public officials and only the absolute bare minimum services, meaning the police, for instance. A law's no good if nobody enforces it, which is the case with anarchy. If anything, I'm more of a minarchist.


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## grossaffe (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> So... an anarchist?


No, a libertarian.  There's a big difference.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> No, a libertarian.  There's a big difference.


I was going based off of


> I oppose the nanny state - the government stepping in and telling grown adults what they can and can't do with their own lives, what they can and can't ingest, what they can and can't buy or sell or who they can or can't sleep with. I reject the idea that the government "knows what's good for me" better than I do, nor do I want it to protect me from myself.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> No, a libertarian.  There's a big difference.


Pretty much. Anarchy basically leads to the strong eating the weak - that's the natural order. There's no point in having laws if the strong will break them either way with no repercussions. A minimal state is a wholely different idea - we don't need hundreds of politicians to do the job a few dozen could do, especially in our computerized era.


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## grossaffe (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I was going based off of


Right, which is libertarian philosophy.  He didn't say that he opposes all government, but rather the nanny state.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Right, which is libertarian philosophy.  He didn't say that he opposes all government, but rather the nanny state.


I'm an idiot. For some reason I thought (for instance) that "ingest" was referring to inedibles and poison and not recreational drugs


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## Xanthe (Jan 9, 2017)

Definitely right. I do not, and never will, support abortion laws. End of story. Period.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Adamant Lugia said:


> Definitely right. I do not, and never will, support abortion laws. End of story. Period.


That's my stance as well, which is one of my "conservative" aspects. There's no need to polarize your beliefs to fit a certain part of the political spectrum


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I was going based off of


I reject the idea that a bunch of old grandpas and grannies in suits who don't know me have the authority to tell me what I can and can't do with my life. As long as I'm not harming anyone, I should be at the helm of the ship that's my life at all times and I should be able to steer it wherever I want, including a cliff if I so deem appropriate, regardless of how others might judge my decisions. I have the right to make them, even if they're bad decisions - it's for me to decide if they're bad or not because it's my body and my fate we're talking about. It should be nobody's business but my own.


TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm an idiot. For some reason I thought (for instance) that "ingest" was referring to inedibles and poison and not recreational drugs


For all intents and purposes, if I feel like drinking some bleach then I should be allowed to do so - it has a warning on the bottle, that's enough to tell me that I probably shouldn't. If I still chose to do so, that's my business - I can be an idiot in my spare time if that's what I like to do on weekends.


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## Xanthe (Jan 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That's my stance as well, which is one of my "conservative" aspects. There's no need to polarize your beliefs to fit a certain part of the political spectrum


It's not just that, but that is what pisses me off the most. As a conservative, I believe that you have to work for what you want. The left side likes free things, and that is not how this life works (In America, at least). I am afraid of socialism and I never want to see America fall under it.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Jan 9, 2017)

Right because we already pay up to 50% taxes but for what exactly? I see nothing but foreigners at our Universities taking advantage of us. They come, get a good education for free (since there are no fees) and return to their home countries. It's similar with the refugees. Many of them are not from countries at war and they just want a good life for free over here without working so they just pour in since Angela Merkel liked to open the borders for anyone. We stupidly enough are gladly willing to pay for all of those people. Our politicians rather get refugees a smoking, cell phone and a nice apartment instead of helping poor Germans literally dying in the streets. Isn't multiculturalism great? Our leftist politicians are so disgusting, they even say it's a good thing that our German population is dying out and is replaced by immigrants. That is treason at best and no consequences. Why all that? Nazi guilt. Nobody actually likes the current situation but everybody knows they are not supposed to raise their voices so they won't. Thank God for Donald Trump's presidency, he's probably the only hope that was left to get things corrected again. First far right nazi now far left retard, please now get it right for once. It has taken long enough. There is a huge difference between murdering other cultures/immigrants and making them do their fair share.


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## Xanthe (Jan 9, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Right because we already pay up to 50% taxes but for what exactly? I see nothing but foreigners at our Universities taking advantage of us. They come, get a good education for free (since there are no fees) and return to their home countries. It's similar with the refugees. Many of them are not from countries at war and they just want a good life for free over here without working so they just pour in since Angela Merkel liked to open the borders for anyone. We stupidly enough are gladly willing to pay for all of those people. Our politicians rather get refugees a smoking, cell phone and a nice apartment instead of helping poor Germans literally dying in the streets. Isn't multiculturalism great? Our leftist politicians are so disgusting, they even say it's a good thing that our German population is dying out and is replaced by immigrants. That is treason at best and no consequences. Why all that? Nazi guilt. Nobody actually likes the current situation but everybody knows they are not supposed to raise their voices so they won't. Thank God for Donald Trump's presidency, he's probably the only hope that was left to get things corrected again. First far right nazi now far left retard, please now get it right for once. It has taken long enough.


I completely agree with everything you said. One of the things that really peeves me off is that my tax money goes towards paying for abortions. I cannot, with a moral conscience, support that. However, I do not have a choice. Well, I do, but I will suffer under major consequences for not paying taxes.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2017)

Adamant Lugia said:


> I completely agree with everything you said. One of the things that really peeves me off is that my tax money goes towards paying for abortions. I cannot, with a moral conscience, support that. However, I do not have a choice. Well, I do, but I will suffer under major consequences for not paying taxes.


That's not really a choice. The government has the guns, and they want to take away your time as a factor of your income, thus making you work a certain portion of the year for free, which is called slavery, under the threat of violence, which is called a robbery. If anyone thinks the government is not holding a gun against your heads, they should conduct a little experiment and try not paying taxes and see how fast an armed officer shows up at their door to penalise them. Not that you can avoid it entirely due to the sales tax, but that's a whole different can of worms - the government robs you twice, once when you earn the money and once when you try to spend whatever money you have left, when logically they should do only one or the other in order to function.


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## x65943 (Jan 9, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> That's not really a choice. The government has the guns, and they want to take away your time as a factor of your income, thus making you work a certain portion of the year for free, which is called slavery, under the threat of violence, which is called a robbery. If anyone thinks it's not holding a gun against your head, they should conduct a little experiment and try not paying taxes. Not that you can avoid it entirely due to the sales tax, but that's a whole different can of worms - the government robs you twice, once when you earn the money and once when you try to spend whatever money you have left, when logically they should do only one or the other in order to function.


They rob you three times. The use of soft currency which the fed and other governments manipulate causes inflation which slowly whittles away the worth of your money.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Right because we already pay up to 50% taxes but for what exactly? I see nothing but foreigners at our Universities taking advantage of us. They come, get a good education for free (since there are no fees) and return to their home countries. It's similar with the refugees. Many of them are not from countries at war and they just want a good life for free over here without working so they just pour in since Angela Merkel liked to open the borders for anyone. We stupidly enough are gladly willing to pay for all of those people. Our politicians rather get refugees a smoking, cell phone and a nice apartment instead of helping poor Germans literally dying in the streets. Isn't multiculturalism great? Our leftist politicians are so disgusting, they even say it's a good thing that our German population is dying out and is replaced by immigrants. That is treason at best and no consequences. Why all that? Nazi guilt. Nobody actually likes the current situation but everybody knows they are not supposed to raise their voices so they won't. Thank God for Donald Trump's presidency, he's probably the only hope that was left to get things corrected again. First far right nazi now far left retard, please now get it right for once. It has taken long enough. There is a huge difference between murdering other cultures/immigrants and making them do their fair share.



I wish I could like this multiple times. The PC bull **** finally ran it's course and people are finally tired of it. We are seeing a right trend all over the world (UK, USA, France) and I love it!

Trump will finally take care of the "forgotten" good Americans who deserve a government that stands with them and not just with the lib agenda.



Adamant Lugia said:


> I completely agree with everything you said. One of the things that really peeves me off is that my tax money goes towards paying for abortions. I cannot, with a moral conscience, support that. However, I do not have a choice. Well, I do, but I will suffer under major consequences for not paying taxes.



YES! Under Barack Hussein, federal government got to run amok, now with the Donald (thankfully!) some of that power got to return to the states and some of the areas who don't support that will finally no longer be forced into it.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2017)

x65943 said:


> They rob you three times. The use of soft currency which the fed and other governments manipulate causes inflation which slowly whittles away the worth of your money.


I was trying to avoid the nitty-gritty details, but yes, and then some. There are many ways in which the government takes things that don't belong to it away.


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## Supster131 (Jan 9, 2017)

I'll go with whatever side aligns with my ideals more at that time.
Generally speaking, I agree and disagree with ideals from both sides.

So I guess I'm pretty neutral, idk.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> That's not really a choice. The government has the guns, and they want to take away your time as a factor of your income, thus making you work a certain portion of the year for free, which is called slavery, under the threat of violence, which is called a robbery. If anyone thinks the government is not holding a gun against your heads, they should conduct a little experiment and try not paying taxes and see how fast an armed officer shows up at their door to penalise them. Not that you can avoid it entirely due to the sales tax, but that's a whole different can of worms - the government robs you twice, once when you earn the money and once when you try to spend whatever money you have left, when logically they should do only one or the other in order to function.



Governments do not force people to stay in their territory, so ultimately one living in such government is making a choice to abide by their laws in exchange for the benefits.


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## WiiUBricker (Jan 9, 2017)

I admit I had to google right/left wing as I didn't expect yet another politics thread. Seems like a trend nowadays.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 9, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> I admit I had to google right/left wing as I didn't expect yet another politics thread. Seems like a trend nowadays.



They seem to bring people "together". LOL


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## x65943 (Jan 9, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Governments do not force people to stay in their territory, so ultimately one living in such government is making a choice to abide by their laws in exchange for the benefits.


Where do you suggest that people go to escape the tyranny of the state? All habitable territory is claimed by a government.


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Where do you suggest that people go to escape the tyranny of the state? All habitable territory is claimed by a government.


Mars is looking for some colonists.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Where do you suggest that people go to escape the tyranny of the state? All habitable territory is claimed by a government.



a) Bir Tawil.

or 

b) Drink that nice big bottle of bleach you guys were discussing.


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## Xiphiidae (Jan 10, 2017)

I like to consider myself a centrist as I dislike both conservatism and progressivism, but I suppose socially I'm more to the right (I'm a nationalist and I care strongly about individual freedom over groups and collectives), and economically I'm perhaps more centre-left (I'm a protectionist/economic nationalist) with some centre-right elements. I oppose socialism, and I support classical liberal ideas when they apply to within my own country, but I believe the government should intervene when it comes to international trade. To me it's ultimately not about left and right as such, it's about localism over globalism, as well as individualism over collectivism.


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## Logan Pockrus (Jan 10, 2017)

Right wing.

And I like how I always get these ads when talking politics:


Spoiler: Ad


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## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Governments do not force people to stay in their territory, so ultimately one living in such government is making a choice to abide by their laws in exchange for the benefits.


Who gave them the territory, exactly? The government doesn't "own" the country, the citizens do. In fact, the government doesn't own anything - it is elected by the citizens and subsists on the funding provided by them - that's your money, not theirs. We just put a select few in positions of power for convenience, too many in my opinion. They're there to do a very specific job, and that job doesn't include infringing on the innate, natural rights of the citizens. The argument that if I don't like it I should just leave is ridiculous - the fact that I'm a citizen of a particular country is complete happenstance and I should not be expected to abandon my home just because some guy in a toupee tells me I should.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 10, 2017)

Not into a political party or system at all.


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 10, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> And you wonder why young people favor socialism



Except free education is always shit and always has propaganda. 
Look at Brazil's public school system. No one wants to study there.

Stop believing lies, please. Capitalism is the one and only way the world can survive. Socialism has failed so many damn times, but capitalism keeps on going strong.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Who gave them the territory, exactly? The government doesn't "own" the country, the citizens do. In fact, the government doesn't own anything - it is elected by the citizens and subsists on the funding provided by them - that's your money, not theirs. We just put a select few in positions of power for convenience, too many in my opinion. They're there to do a very specific job, and that job doesn't include infringing on the innate, natural rights of the citizens. The argument that if I don't like it I should just leave is ridiculous - the fact that I'm a citizen of a particular country is complete happenstance and I should not be expected to abandon my home just because some guy in a toupee tells me I should.



Governments do own the territory and they set the laws that one must abide when living in their jurisdiction. The argument that you should be allowed to choose which laws you do or do not follow is ridiculous in the context of living in a governed state. Look for one that has less infringement on what you perceive as your "right" or abide by the laws in your country of choice.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Governments do own the territory and they set the laws that one must abide when living in their jurisdiction. The argument that you should be allowed to choose which laws you do or do not follow is ridiculous in the context of living in a governed state. Look for one that has less infringement on what you perceive as your "right" or abide by the laws in your country of choice.


Once again, governments don't own anything, the citizens do. Our elected officials are in charge of things on our behalf. The government cannot exist without citizens, but citizens would be just fine without the government, albeit they'd live a chaotic, lawless life, which is undesirable. The power dynamic you believe in is completely skewed - the term "civil servants" has the word "servants" in it on purpose - they're performing their functions to serve you, not the other way around. I am not picking and choosing which laws to follow, I'm merely pointing out that some are unjust. They infringe upon my rights as a human, not just as a citizen.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Once again, governments don't own anything, the citizens do. Our elected officials are in charge of things on our behalf. The government cannot exist without citizens, but citizens would be just fine without the government, albeit they'd live a chaotic, lawless life, which is undesirable. The power dynamic you believe in is completely skewed - the term "civil servants" has the word "servants" in it on purpose - they're performing their functions to serve you, not the other way around. I am not picking and choosing which laws to follow, I'm merely pointing out that some are unjust. They infringe upon my rights as a human, not just as a citizen.



LOL like taxes or drinking bleach?

I see your point.


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## Futurdreamz (Jan 10, 2017)

I'd like to think I'm neutral, but I feel that it seems the right acknowledges it's insensitivity while the left is frothing at the bit advocating for issues that they don't even fully understand. I mean sure I'd probably classify as racist, but if I find someone I disagree with or am unfamiliar with I'll just leave them alone - though if they do ask for help I'll be happy to help (unless I suspect it's a trick or a scam but that's irregardless of race or culture)


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 10, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> they even say it's a good thing that our German population is dying out and is replaced by immigrants.


While I can understand your frustration after watching that with the way he worded it, you could not have picked a less biased source. Good Christmas, genocide of Germans? Are White People so entitled that their genocide doesn't even involve them being killed??

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Futurdreamz said:


> I'd like to think I'm neutral, but I feel that it seems the right acknowledges it's insensitivity while the left is frothing at the bit advocating for issues that they don't even fully understand


Listen to Rush Limbaugh for an evening and you'll change your mind (my car radio only gets one station and I hate driving in silence, plus I enjoy hearing other opinions, otherwise I wouldn't touch his show with a 10 foot pole)


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Jan 10, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> While I can understand your frustration after watching that with the way he worded it, you could not have picked a less biased source. Good Christmas, genocide of Germans? Are White People so entitled that their genocide doesn't even involve them being killed??


It's not really genocide but he appraises of the German people decreasing in numbers as German politician which is pretty insane and is an extreme example. They are up there because anyone going against them is deemed a nazi similar to the treatment of Donald Trump in the US but worse. It's basically illegal to say anything even remotely in the direction of the national socialism because people still fear this might repeat so they don't even give any opposition a chance. The left therefore dominates. So much for freedom of speech by the way. As long as you kiss their asses it's fine otherwise you're not allowed to speak up


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## Viri (Jan 10, 2017)

Center, leaning towards right. I used to be left, even voted for Obama.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 10, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> It's not really genocide but he appraises of the German people decreasing in numbers as German politician which is pretty insane and is an extreme example. They are up there because anyone going against them is deemed a nazi similar to the treatment of Donald Trump in the US but worse. It's basically illegal to say anything even remotely in the direction of the national socialism because people still fear this might repeat so they don't even give any opposition a chance. The left therefore dominates. So much for freedom of speech by the way. As long as you kiss their asses it's fine otherwise you're not allowed to speak up


I'm referring to the title of the video you used and the similar recommended ones on the side bar. Have you considered that your sources might not be entirely unbiased?...

And yes, I'm aware of the fact that the new German constitution doesn't allow for full freedom of speech, unfortunately. Neither does GB's, actually


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## RevPokemon (Jan 10, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> And yes, I'm aware of the fact that the new German constitution doesn't allow for full freedom of speech, unfortunately. Neither does GB's, actually


Same with alot of Eastern European countries and South Korea which have banned certain literature (largly far left or far right) in essence harming the freedom of speech. Personally I understand why they do it but for me I feel that said censorship is never worth it.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

Finally some common sense: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...rror-threats-to-wear-electronic-monitors.html

I'm sure libs are gonna whine and cry, but measures like this need to be used in these times! Stop and frisk was no different and was very effective!


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Finally some common sense: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...rror-threats-to-wear-electronic-monitors.html
> 
> I'm sure libs are gonna whine and cry, but measures like this need to be used in these times! Stop and frisk was no different and was very effective!


That is disgusting.  How pathetic people are to happily throw away essential civil liberties because they're scared the boogeyman will get them.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> That is disgusting.  How pathetic people are to happily throw away essential civil liberties because they're scared the boogeyman will get them.



Like I said.. I'm sure libs will cry.


On another note: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...nation-would-cripple-mexicos-auto-sector.html

Yes! AMERICA! We're getting MAGA'd. Go Trump!


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Like I said.. I'm sure libs will cry.


<- Not a liberal.  Also not a frightened little pussy who needs to trample on the rights of others to sleep at night.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> <- Not a liberal.  Also not a frightened little pussy who needs to trample on the rights of others to sleep at night.



LOL sure libby those tears are hitting the keyboard as you type, no need to get salty. 

There is obviously a problem with some of these "immigrants" entering the country.


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> LOL sure libby those tears are hitting the keyboard as you type, no need to get salty.
> 
> There is obviously a problem with some of these "immigrants" entering the country.


There is obviously a problem with some of these "natives" staying in the country.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> There is obviously a problem with some of these "natives" staying in the country.



LOL yeah that Justice Minister is a real menace to society. Fact is that terrorist could have been stopped if the system wasn't so PC.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Jan 10, 2017)

Get it done _right_ away.


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> LOL yeah that Justice Minister is a real menace to society. Fact is that terrorist could have been stopped if the system wasn't so PC.


Civil liberties are not an issue of political correctness.  To quote Patrick Henry, "Give me Liberty or give me death."
Because, you know, he wasn't a pussy.  Life without liberty is a life not worth living.

Or we can ask Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Don't cower away like a pussy and act like it makes you Mr. Manly Anti-PC.  Cowardice is cowardice, no matter how much of an ass you make of yourself in the process.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Jan 10, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Would someone care to explain to me why someone WOULDN'T favor globalism over nationalism?


It's because globalism is just an excuse to destabilize established and thriving nations and enable "anarchist" tyranny.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Civil liberties are not an issue of political correctness.  To quote Patrick Henry, "Give me Liberty or give me death."
> Because, you know, he wasn't a pussy.  Life without liberty is a life not worth living.
> 
> Or we can ask Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> ...



Would you like some cheese to go with that whine? 

Calling people "pussy" over the internet, LOL! Get your PC bull **** outta here!


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?
> 
> Calling people "pussy" over the internet, LOL! Get your PC bull **** outta here!


Calling you a pussy is PC?  I get the feeling you don't know what PC means.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Calling you a pussy is PC?  I get the feeling you don't know what PC means.



No, all this let's protect "civil liberties" BS to migrants who could be potential terrorist (as they are on the damn watch list!).

But please, keep quoting a slave owner in a discussion of civil liberties 

You libbies don't cease to amaze me!


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## osaka35 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Civil liberties are not an issue of political correctness.  To quote Patrick Henry, "Give me Liberty or give me death."
> Because, you know, he wasn't a pussy.  Life without liberty is a life not worth living.
> 
> Or we can ask Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> ...


Agreed. though I have known quite a few "pro-pc" folk who ignore ben franklin harder than they do a logic class. I think people have a tendency to see losing the ability to do something as losing a right to do something, as opposed to ensuring everyone has equal liberty ("why can't I punch them in the nose? This is a free county, I do what I WANT!"). It's difficult to explain to most people, even when they're saying the right things (but for all the wrong reasons)


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

el_gonz87 said:


> No all this let's protect "civil liberties" BS to migrants who could be potential terrorist (as they are on the damn watch list!).
> 
> But please, keep quoting a slave owner in a discussion of civil liberties
> 
> You libbies don't cease to amaze me!


I don't believe you addressed anything in the post you quoted.  I guess you concede that you're full of shit and don't know what you're talking about but just throw the term 'PC' because it's _so_ edgy to be anti-PC.  Just so you know, being an asshole and being anti-PC are not the same thing.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I don't believe you addressed anything in the post you quoted.  I guess you concede that you're full of shit and don't know what you're talking about but just throw the term 'PC' because it's _so_ edgy to be anti-PC.  Just so you know, being an asshole and being anti-PC are not the same thing.



LOL I answered your question as to what I interpret in your posts as PC, and it is the fact that you are outraged that migrants *who are on a terrorists watch list* will have their civil liberties "violated" in order to try to prevent some of the attacks that have been happening in Germany.

No concession here fella! I'm not gonna sit here and debate a Ben Franklin quote, because it's stupid to quote a slave owner in a discussion of civil liberties. I guess your libby mind is just on overload !


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## grossaffe (Jan 10, 2017)

I don't suffer fools gladly.  I do, however, gladly put people on ignore who are too stupid to have intelligible conversations with.


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## el_gonz87 (Jan 10, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I don't suffer fools gladly.  I do, however, gladly put people on ignore who are too stupid to have intelligible conversations with.



U mad bro?


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## Dr.Hacknik (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm a _*middle wing*_, if you know what I mean.


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## matthi321 (Jan 10, 2017)

politicic is stupid just keep playing video games


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## RevPokemon (Jan 10, 2017)

Dr.Hacknik said:


> I'm a _*middle wing*_, if you know what I mean.


I know, I showed your mom mine!


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## Dr.Hacknik (Jan 11, 2017)

RevPokemon said:


> I know, I showed your mom mine!


Well, um; this is an interesting conversation!


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 11, 2017)

*sigh* and we were having a polite and respectful conversation, too

I guess us/them really DOES explain a lot, politically at least


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## Dr.Hacknik (Jan 11, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> *sigh* and we were having a polite and respectful conversation, too
> 
> I guess us/them really DOES explain a lot, politically at least


And it suddenly got somewhat sexual and weird. 0//3//0


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## SickPuppy (Jan 11, 2017)

Dr.Hacknik said:


> And it suddenly got somewhat sexual and weird. 0//3//0



Really, and that sounds better than what the rest of the thread is about.


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## Dr.Hacknik (Jan 11, 2017)

SickPuppy said:


> Really, and that sounds better than what the rest of the thread is about.


Not gonna agree to that....x3 (Shit, I just did)


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## Logan Pockrus (Jan 11, 2017)

matthi321 said:


> politicic is stupid just keep playing video games


I think it's better for the populous of any given country to at least have an opinion on some political issues.  Imagine a world where the people were absolutely oblivious to what the government of their country was doing.  Sounds petrifying.  Especially when you live in a democratic country and have the ability to vote.  It frightens me to know that some people vote simply because they can, not because they have any strong opinions on politics.


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