# Bitcoin at all time high



## x65943 (Jan 2, 2021)

Bitcoin is at an all time high of upwards $32k USD per single coin.

The value of bitcoin has not been this high since late 2017 before a massive crash that only recovered in the past month.

But for now the price continues to rise in what will surely be another bubble, leading to massive loss and disappointment for new investors.

So what do you guys think? Does anyone still even have bitcoin around here? How long do you think before the bubble pops? How long til this is mainstream Sunday evening news like 3 years ago?


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## Chary (Jan 2, 2021)

Never had bitcoin, but maybe I’ll buy a tiny little shred of some once it eventually crashes this week lol


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## Flame (Jan 2, 2021)

ive never understood Bitcoin.

real money is backed by goverment and gold and other stuff. 

bitcoin boggles my mind.


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## x65943 (Jan 2, 2021)

Flame said:


> ive never understood Bitcoin.
> 
> real money is backed by goverment and gold and other stuff.
> 
> bitcoin boggles my mind.


Everything has value because we say it has value.

The value of bitcoin is precisely what people are willing to pay for bitcoin.

You could say its inherent value is its anonymous nature and potential for replacing traditional banking.

The other thing is it has some aspects of hard currency like gold. Look at how governments have been devaluing currency during the pandemic to battle sinking markets and unemployment - this will diminish everyone's savings in the long term.

Bitcoin on the other hand has no central regulation and can't be sold out to prop up an economy - making it attractive to store money there.

Or course the issue with crypto is its volatility (If you plan to save money) but that is also the big plus when it comes to gambling and trying to make a quick buck.


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## xbmcuser (Jan 2, 2021)

The problem with real money is that when any government needs money it prints more money. Whereas Gold and Bitcoins theres only a finite number on earth.


So money when printed it becomes more and more worthless and bitcoins more worth it


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## notimp (Jan 4, 2021)

x65943 said:


> You could say its inherent value is its anonymous nature and potential for replacing traditional banking.


Yeah, no, and no on that. But you keep finding someone that tells you the future of its market evaluation. 

On the first part, transaction flows are public, and accounts can be forced to be checked by governments at the point of exchange. Basically - the thing gets monitored, and once there is too much activity that -
a. isnt taxed or
b. arent mostly transaction flows from forreign countries into the US
you start to talk to exchanges.

On the second part Bitcoin is unfit to replace what you'd call 'traditional banking'. It simply cant handle the transaction volume needed by a factor. And it will never be able to. (You only have a certain amount of wiggle room you can change the protocol at a time, you need adoption from other miners, mostly in mindshare - if you do something that isnt perceived to benefit everyone, you get reputation damage, infighting, ... so its hard to say - we remove proof of work, for example. Its easier to pronounce bitcoin 'the new gold' which serves all its current properties. Limited transaction flows, manipulated by bigger entities, buying and selling quantities coordinatedly, the average guy that holds it, holds it for a long time. All of that is 'sticking to the scheme' (hodlhodlho), and finding new people to buy into it.) With every move to 'make it more legit in appearance' (now paypal is acting as an exchange! (An exchange makes money from exchange fees - in case you didnt know.)) you get more people interested. Thats about all.

There is a certain value in driving it, because its the market leader, so people actually make shortcuts like 'are cryptocurrencies the future?' how well is bitcoin doing? So if you are in the market of popularizing virtual currencies, or simply a company looking for new talent thats looking for opportunity and is motivated, it pays to invest in its exchange value, and the scene around it.

What we've seen previously is high volatility (thats pump and dump, thats price manipulation), and the new thing now is the promise of price stability because 'bigger entities are now entering the market' so everyone is more interested in structural stability (to sell it to more people) than in value spikes. Value spikes are 'speculation driven', a more stable value over time would lend itself to value storage. (Especially if its 'easy' for the small guy to engage in tax fraud that way. Or its perceived that way. To not say that outright, you show high amounts of empathy with people in countries with high exchange rate fluctuations - and tell everyone you are doing them a service. This works, as long as the US FED is interested in having it work.) Why should everyone buy BC to try to 'conserve value' in foreign economies? The answer given there is 'high opportunity', 'easy', and 'its reputation' (the thing you mentioned as it being, despite it being none of that).

All of that has value - very much the same way a ponzi scheme has value. As in - there are very obvious limitations, it is very hard to circumvent them, People are changing what the thing 'is' in your mind as we speak (no, no - its meant as value storage, dont yous see?), new entities are entering, because its big enough to make money with it - if you are an established exchange, or if you want to speculate.

More people entering means its value is rising.

The more its value rises, the more interesting it becomes to look at 'distribution of stake' and even that isnt ideal with BC (see the working pump and dump schemes in the past (people producing trends coordinatedly to buy low, and sell high)) - because lets say you are interested in the stability of that specific blockchain, because you love the idea of using its infrastructure of 'distributed verification' for something like smart contracts.

For that you'd also need it to be (somewhat) stable at a high evaluation.

BUT - there is almost no reason to. Everyone is just using centralized databases and doing fine (better even..  ).

There is part of it that might be necessary for future economies, basically think of an internet of things interacting with each other without having to resort to centralization, or a service economy, where every one is selling their micro services to the next person, some of that automated, some of that conditional (smart contracts for everyday people)... There something like a blockchain has value. (So 'more than conventional banking'.)

Bitcoin, for that is horrible as well, but it has legacy rights I guess. (Mindshare, people perceive it as the thing they've heard of).

And the new cool is everyone telling everyone, that tulip bulbs are so high value, they ought to look into that market - no one quite seems to have a reason, but hey - they are rising in value!
----

Part of the 'look what its worth now'! hype comes from the fact, that people still perceive it as something 'they could create out of thin air themselves' so should they do it? Should they ask a nerd friend, how to do it? Should they print money? And the answer to that is, if they dont have free excess electricity, that they cant get a higher price for - selling it as electricity, I guess, they could buy asics and graphics cards and bank on the trend. For everyone else - its a speculation object.

And hardly anything more.
--

edit: Lets ask nobel laureates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_bubble



xbmcuser said:


> The problem with real money is that when any government needs money it prints more money. Whereas Gold and Bitcoins theres only a finite number on earth.
> 
> 
> So money when printed it becomes more and more worthless and bitcoins more worth it


Could I interest you in some limited run toy figurines as an investment asset?


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## notimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Here is something more worthwhile of a post.

So everyone is brabbling along, that the recent spike is because of 'institutional investors' - so what institutions?





src: https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurr...y-and-they-want-all-your-bitcoin-202012011121

The institutional investor of
- an app based data analytics firm, that makes money if you install app
- a digital transaction platform
- another digital transaction platform
- Bill Miller


> A character based on Miller was featured in the 2015 movie _The Big Short_ about the financial crisis of 2007–2008. An arrogant fund manager named _Bruce_ Miller and played by actor Tony Bentley debates Steve Carell’s character at an investment conference,[10] "blustering on about the fundamental strength of Bear Stearns stock".[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Miller_(investor)
- Druckenmiller


> Druckenmiller is a top-down investor who adopts a similar trading style as George Soros by holding a group of stocks long, a group of stocks short, and uses leverage to trade futures and currency. In early 2019 he held large positions in Microsoft, Abbott Laboratories, Salesforce.com, Delta Airlines, and American Airlines.[10] In November 2020, he stated that he owned both gold and bitcoin.[11]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Druckenmiller
- And the people that recently acquired card cash:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guggenheim_Partners

Also some lonely Massachusetts Mutual fund (revenue 30 billion, investment in BC 100 million).

Wow.

Everyone better now?


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

Forget $32K.

The hash rate goes brrr.


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## zeroultima6 (Jan 7, 2021)

At that price, nope. I rather wait til the bubble pops, then buy it at a lower cost


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## Goku1992A (Jan 7, 2021)

zeroultima6 said:


> At that price, nope. I rather wait til the bubble pops, then buy it at a lower cost



It's going to come just like the Tesla stock. I wish I didn't sell my $500 worth of bitcoin it probably would have been $1500 now


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 7, 2021)

It has never even been close to this high, to my recollection the last ATH peaked at ~$22k. There's no telling how far it will go this time, it's already passed my conservative estimate of 30k and shows no signs of stopping. I didn't invest this time around, because I invested a couple years ago after about a year of checking prices every day and having the thought on my mind 24/7 even when i was doing other stuff, I sold my crypto for about a 2.5x profit (at $9k, where it stayed for a while until just recently). I was so sick of it by that point that I vowed not to invest again for a long time. I just can't relax for a single moment because I have to be ready so I can sell before a huge dip happens. It gets very tiring after a while, can't enjoy games or movies properly. It's just the unpredictable nature of cryptocurrency, it could suddenly start going down and lose half of its value over a few days if all the whales decide they are done whaling and start selling to reap the profits.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

The Real Jdbye said:


> It has never even been close to this high, to my recollection the last ATH peaked at ~$22k. There's no telling how far it will go this time, it's already passed my conservative estimate of 30k and shows no signs of stopping. I didn't invest this time around, because I invested a couple years ago after about a year of checking prices every day and having the thought on my mind 24/7 even when i was doing other stuff, I sold my crypto for about a 2.5x profit (at $9k, where it stayed for a while until just recently). I was so sick of it by that point that I vowed not to invest again for a long time. I just can't relax for a single moment because I have to be ready so I can sell before a huge dip happens. It gets very tiring after a while, can't enjoy games or movies properly. It's just the unpredictable nature of cryptocurrency, it could suddenly start going down and lose half of its value over a few days if all the whales decide they are done whaling and start selling to reap the profits.


There's a lot of uncertainty in the market now - we've had a year-long pandemic and a shit show of a US election, so confidence in the dollar is dropping. Hedging is the name of the game, and after yesterday I fully expected it to soar even higher - it will continue to soar until we return to some semblance of normalcy. Normally people hedged with physical metals like gold and silver which are not affected by inflation - now Bitcoin and other forms of crypto have created a worthwhile alternative that is actually fungible in the digital realm. It's not a weirdo currency for nerds anymore - large players are in the game too, and they're dropping fat stacks on it, further increasing its value. All I can say is that we should all feel like idiots for not running a miner when we were still at school - I should've been an even bigger nerd than I already was.


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## zeroultima6 (Jan 7, 2021)

For mining, do it only for the high price, if lower, just buy it if able


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## notimp (Jan 7, 2021)

So many gold bugs in here. 

We want to bet against the USD! We believe it will loose out in exchange rate fluctuations!

A lot of people are betting against it! Its time to hedge!

We believe Bitcoin will prevail against digital national bank currencies!

Only thing this people have left. And they are now instrumentalized, by the people driving a ponzi scheme.

None of their language makes any sense. None of their arguments make any sense. They are just simply and purely firing on a speculative bubble.

But they'll win - when society crashes.

edit:

Here is another angle, that takes the 'its compatible with green' argument to the bank: 
https://philippsandner.medium.com/t...umption-and-green-energy-related-b541b23424ab


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## Lacius (Jan 21, 2021)

*Janet Yellen suggests 'curtailing' cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, saying they are mainly used for illegal financing*

https://markets.businessinsider.com...d-terrorism-concerns-yellen-2021-1-1029985692


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## boasnake (Mar 3, 2021)

I truly expect that more and more people will start talking about this subject. Cryptocurrencies, especially bitcoin, are very important components of the economy today, and they will inevitably change the whole banking structure in the future. There are already companies like insiderlearningnetwork.com that exchange crypto rather than futures or stocks, as other financial firms do. You send them your bitcoins or other cryptocurrency, and they exchange it for a fee, taking a small percentage as a commission. That's fair enough, I suppose, except if you think about it a bit more, I assume it's almost robbery.


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## Jayro (Mar 3, 2021)

I regret not investing in bitcoin when it came out...  but I also didn't have a job back then.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Mar 10, 2021)

Flame said:


> ive never understood Bitcoin.
> 
> real money is backed by goverment and gold and other stuff.
> 
> bitcoin boggles my mind.



Think bitcoin the transfer of wealth, not physical money,

you create a transaction, a special hash, generated using your btc address, and the recipients, containing the amount of capial to be sent (bitcoin), and you can convert fiat currency to crypto

this is submitted to the blockchain, which is a peer to peer (think torrents) network of consisting of computers running mining software, they process and add each transaction to the blockchain (the "bank " ledger), each transaction requires some processing time, so you have to pay a processing fee (transaction fee) to the miner(s), which they get as a payment, to process and confirm your transactions to the blockchain

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Jayro said:


> I regret not investing in bitcoin when it came out...  but I also didn't have a job back then.



Xmr is promising

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Yessir


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## Shadowless (Mar 28, 2021)

Aaand it's almost double now. In just three months.


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## AncientBoi (Mar 31, 2021)

Bitcoins gets you high? Where do I get them? Cheap


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## bornn (Apr 2, 2021)

could you ever imagine that one day 1btc will be 60k$? It's insane, the future is here. Cryptocurrencies are going to replace all other forms of money, because it's better from any point of view. And the best part is that we already can use crypto for our payments, almost every site and service accepts bitcoin, and that's great. You can even play games of chance and pay with crypto, like on https://rocketpot.io/ for example. The future is closer than it seems, and this is great!


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## matthi321 (Apr 2, 2021)

is their a way i can buy bitcoin without needing  id?


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