# Not every Pokémon will be available in Pokémon Sword and Shield



## Daisy (Jun 13, 2019)

I can't see how anyone could defend this decision, honestly. Isn't the whole point of Pokémon to 'Catch 'Em All'?


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

'Tis a shame.  For every step forward, GameFreak seems to feel like they have to take another step back.


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## Crimsonflare (Jun 13, 2019)

Such disappointing news... Again. Pokémon isn't what It was years ago, sadly.


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## leon315 (Jun 13, 2019)

Nintendo seems also recycle HD models from pokemon go, never expect that Big N would made such lazy decision!!!


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## Daisy (Jun 13, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Nintendo seems also recycle HD models from pokemon go, never expect that Big N would made such lazy decision!!!



From X/Y actually, I believe. The models in the 3DS versions were made to be future-proof, which probably explains why battles run so poorly in the 3DS games.


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Nintendo seems also recycle HD models from pokemon go, never expect that Big N would made such lazy decision!!!


What makes you think that?  The old models came from the 3DS engine.


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## yusuo (Jun 13, 2019)

New tag line

Pokemon... Gotta catch some of em


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## Mythical (Jun 13, 2019)

This just makes me sad. I'd love to support more great Pokemon games, but I love playing competitive Pokemon. Not having access to them all is even more frustrating then having certain abilities be inaccessible due to transfer problems or lack of events
edit: I have no problem with them reusing materials either tbh.


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## Deleted User (Jun 13, 2019)

As long as all my pokemons are safe in Pokemon home, I'm good


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## Robika (Jun 13, 2019)

Daisy said:


> I can't see how anyone could defend this decision, honestly. Isn't the whole point of Pokémon to 'Catch 'Em All'?


I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


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## sup3rgh0st (Jun 13, 2019)

This is an outrage, Game Freak should just create 800+ unique sets of animations for every single Pokemon. As fans, we are entitled to a series of games that grows in size and scope after every single release. All they need to do is copy-paste the models over, it's really easy, trust me. /s


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## KirovAir (Jun 13, 2019)

It's kinda to be expected with so many pokemon. It's basically a cost/returns calculation. They will probably release the remaining models later on. I can't blame them for this.


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## Bedel (Jun 13, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


The thing is: they have the models and the animations. This is not an excuse. 
Stop defending an incomplete game.


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## Haymose (Jun 13, 2019)

Personally I’ve always thought Pokemon needed a heavy overhaul so this seems to be in line with my vision.

Upsetting your players isn’t a consequence that should be taken lightly though.


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

sup3rgh0st said:


> This is an outrage, Game Freak should just create 800+ unique sets of animations for every single Pokemon. As fans, we are entitled to a series of games that grows in size and scope after every single release. /s


They already created the animations, the problem is that they want all the animations to be different in Dynamax form.


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## Daisy (Jun 13, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


They're all already modelled and rigged, as well as animated, bar the new Pokémon. That, and Pokémon is one of the biggest media franchises of all time, they can damn well afford it.


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## jeffyTheHomebrewer (Jun 13, 2019)

KirovAir said:


> It's kinda to be expected with so many pokemon. It's basically a cost/returns calculation. They will probably release the remaining models later on. I can't blame them for this.


Yeah, and if it's as DLC, I think it should be free, like if it was an optional update.


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## DarthDub (Jun 13, 2019)

I'm not going to buy this game.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 13, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.



Is it really insane to expect them to put in the works for a franchise that generated over 90 billion dollars in it's time?

Not that this one will sell very well, it's going to lose a huge chunk of it's core buying base (nostalgia nerds and online players) This move will cost them so much more than paying a dozen animators for a few months ever could.


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## Deleted User (Jun 13, 2019)

People will still defend this even though the game looks far worse than the average switch game. Maybe if the animations were really good I would not care as much, but they are mostly the same lame recycled 3ds animations.


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

Oh man is it ever gonna be ironic if, after all the controversy, Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee ends up outselling Sword/Shield.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 13, 2019)

sup3rgh0st said:


> This is an outrage, Game Freak should just create 800+ unique sets of animations for every single Pokemon. As fans, we are entitled to a series of games that grows in size and scope after every single release. All they need to do is copy-paste the models over, it's really easy, trust me. /s



It actually is, the 3d models they've been using since X/Y were build specifically for this jump to 1080p. They were much, much too good for the 3ds games. All sword and shield does is throw on another layer of shading.

Also, as fans, we generated them billions of dollars, buying the same game twice every generation for pretty much all of our lives. They've always milked us for all we were worth and we let them because of the ever growing scope of monsters to collect. Now they'll raise prices by another 20 bucks, still release two games, trap our pokemon in a the cloud and cut half the pokemon from the games code?


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## smilodon (Jun 13, 2019)

You guys need to see this video before complaining about gamefreak lazyness :


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## DbGt (Jun 13, 2019)

Why you need 800+ pokemon to appear in the game??? I bet most people probably use 10 pokemon max 

I dont care, and realistically this was going to happen sooner or later, they keep adding new pokemon in every game, theres a point where its impossible to have them all in the same game


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## x65943 (Jun 13, 2019)

I think the biggest issue is even if they included all of the models and animations, the average player wouldn't run into more than 10% of the pokemon.

Should they really spend hundreds of hours modeling pokemon that you can't even run into in the game - or should they spend that time making it a fun game?

In another 10 years we might have close to 2000 pokemon - like they said at some point they have to stop, and they chose now.

Disappointing, yes. Necessary, yes.


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## Deleted User (Jun 13, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.





sup3rgh0st said:


> This is an outrage, Game Freak should just create 800+ unique sets of animations for every single Pokemon. As fans, we are entitled to a series of games that grows in size and scope after every single release. All they need to do is copy-paste the models over, it's really easy, trust me. /s



it's almost like all of these models and animations already exist in older games or something and could easily be reused, hmmmmm, odd


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

PugCruz said:


> People will still defend this even though the game looks far worse than the average switch game.


I wouldn't say that.  The open world aesthetics and view distance are very reminiscent of BotW.  It might even be on the same engine.


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## NoNAND (Jun 13, 2019)

Daisy said:


> I can't see how anyone could defend this decision, honestly. Isn't the whole point of Pokémon to 'Catch 'Em All'?


Well at least there's one who could defend their decision, me.
Here's why:
Whilst I've been a Pokemon fan for god knows how long, I've only been a casual player and never bothered with competitive play and all that.
And, I don't feel like capturing every Pokemon out there would be worth it.
that's just my opinion on this not saying what they did was good or bad


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## DCG (Jun 13, 2019)

Well, my hype (was planning on buying it in japan, since I'm there during release), died instantly...


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## ShadowOne333 (Jun 13, 2019)

Bitches please, you've been using the same fucking 3D models and animations since the 6th Gen in Pokemon X/Y, since then you've used them in the Pokedex app, Pokemon ORAS, Pokemon Sun/Moon, Pokemon US/UM, Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee and even fucking Pokemon GO uses them.

Don't come to me with this shit


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## KingVamp (Jun 13, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


That's understandable for the start of this generation, but they seem to be not even planning to do so eventually for future Pokemon games and that is a shame.


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## strayofthesun (Jun 13, 2019)

I'm fine with not being able to get all pokemon IF they make more available as time goes on. I've always felt Pokemon games came out too quickly, this is a good opportunity for them to slow down development and add more long term support to the series.


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## ElTacoDestroyer (Jun 13, 2019)

i will defiantly 'Buy' this.
but i do agree that if the catch line is 'Gotta Catch Them All' ?!?

still anticipating the next revision of the switch.


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## KingVamp (Jun 13, 2019)

Like even if this game still sells well, they are going feel a chunk missing. Doesn't matter how good the game is. I'll be surprise if they decide to stay with this decision.


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## Garro (Jun 13, 2019)

I'm okay with not every Pokemon being available if that means development is put somewhere else. But after BW2 Pokemon have had a record of terrible/subpar post-game content, plus I have no interest in the Dynamax feature (coming from somebody who loved megas/z-moves when they were first announced) so if Sword/Shield won't be any different this will probably be the first mainline Pokemon game I will skip.


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## xskibbles (Jun 13, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Nintendo seems also recycle HD models from pokemon go, never expect that Big N would made such lazy decision!!!


It’s not nintendo making the decision though . It’s GameFreak


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 13, 2019)

I am indifferent. This will be the first Pokémon game I'm buying (yes, buying) since Pokémon Black. Never cared for capturing every single Pokémon for the Nth time or going through the tedious process of trading or transferring. Sucks for the completionists, sure.. Maybe they'll change their mind and give us a National Dex later on? I don't know and can't say it bothers me on either side.

With that said, they're clearly pissing off their fanbase without an adequate reason... At least no more than "balance" excuses. Maybe they didn't want to make all Pokémon for one reason or the other. Who knows... Either way, bad move for the majority.

Edit: Looking into it, the development goes far deeper than the average user cares to notice. Taking the time to model, animate and incorporate 900+ Pokémon into this game would take a fair amount of work. Especially with QA.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



LiveLatios said:


> it's almost like all of these models and animations already exist in older games or something and could easily be reused, hmmmmm, odd



Could they, though? Is it as simple as importing models and animations and getting them to work "out of the box"?... Or would there be issues in doing so that would require more QA than just making them from a base? Game development is far from copy and pasting from prior games. Especially on a newer system.


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## Lacius (Jun 13, 2019)

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: Everyone is Here.
Pokémon Sword/Sheild: Not So Much


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

Memoir said:


> Could they, though? Is it as simple as importing models and animations and getting them to work "out of the box"?


I think it really is just that simple.  The engine takes care of the rest.


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## x65943 (Jun 13, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I think it really is just that simple.  The engine takes care of the rest.


Let's go was an obviously rushed game. I don't think this says much about SS. I am withholding judgement until we see just what they've done.


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## Xzi (Jun 13, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Let's go was an obviously rushed game. I don't think this says much about SS. I am withholding judgement until we see just what they've done.


That's the exact same model, though, it's just different shaders applied to gen8.


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## aofelix (Jun 13, 2019)

completely understandable. there are too many pokemon to make the transition in such a short time period to a completely new architecture and platform.


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## Zeldaplayer67 (Jun 13, 2019)

aofelix said:


> completely understandable. there are too many pokemon to make the transition in such a short time period to a completely new architecture and platform.


Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu / Eevee


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## KingBlank (Jun 13, 2019)

sup3rgh0st said:


> This is an outrage, Game Freak should just create 800+ unique sets of animations for every single Pokemon. As fans, we are entitled to a series of games that grows in size and scope after every single release. All they need to do is copy-paste the models over, it's really easy, trust me. /s


Yeah, I'm just happy to hear that they are focusing on quality over quantity, this is a good direction for the series.


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## Jayro (Jun 13, 2019)

Old news is old. I've been seeing this news on Facebook for a few days now.


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## kuwanger (Jun 13, 2019)

sup3rgh0st said:


> As fans, we are entitled to a series of games that grows in size and scope after every single release.



Literally that's the defining quality of Pokemon that created fans of the series.  Of course, the real solution is to acknowledge that Pokemon can "go extinct" after a while.  Maybe Pokemon: Apocalypse to reboot the series?  I mean, that worked for X-Men, right?

PS - Never been a Pokemon fan precisely because it was always rooted around gotta catch 'em all and the progressively expanding Pokemon base/abilities to drive more sales.  It's good to see it's finally biting them in the ass.  The only thing left is when they start offering Pokemon DLC.


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## VartioArtel (Jun 13, 2019)

I do  get the rage, but it's ignorant.

People saying "Gotta catch 'em all"? How many did you catch INSIDE THAT GAME? The ones that spawn *IN. THAT. GAME. You already caught those others - in the other games! YOU ALREADY CAUGHT THEM ALL!*

The national dexes have been optional content for a while now (since I think Gen 4 postgame?). They have no actual purpose other than keeping track if you own EVERY INDIVIDUAL POKEMON.

Beyond porting over pokemon for battle from older gens... what do you need them for? To complete your National Dex? The new PokeBank or whatever the hell it's called (too lazy to look, bad nuff memory not to remember) covers that fetish.

Look, I get it, you guys are mad. But hell, I remember Gen 5 first games being THE EXACT SAME.

Also you got to remember that every Pokemon added is file size. At some point, those Switch carts can't handle all that info. They have to cut the memory cap eventually, and the easiest way to do that? Superfluous pokemon. Cuts down on that many models worth of info and allows them to make more intricate maps, character models, etc.

So as I said, what's there to be angry about? That you can't port older pokemon to the new ones? So what? You can't port your Shiny Charizard (example)? Oh no.

You can't complex your National Dex in-game? Do it in Pokemon Brothel.

You can't get laid? Do it in Pokemon Ba- ...I think I mixed these last two lines up but you get my point!


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## Spider_Man (Jun 13, 2019)

His excuse is retarded almost as bad as when they admitted they cant make games anymore and ha ded matroid 3 to a different studio.

Then here commenses pokemon as fucking dlc.

Nevermind if it can be transferred its still within the game and like every other cash cow pokemon game, you only need the one version and experience how to hack it, and youll have every single pokemon at your disposal.


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## Deleted User (Jun 13, 2019)

Memoir said:


> Could they, though? Is it as simple as importing models and animations and getting them to work "out of the box"?... Or would there be issues in doing so that would require more QA than just making them from a base? Game development is far from copy and pasting from prior games. Especially on a newer system.


if they use a standard format for the models, and keep the files for the animations which they proven they have since they've reused them dozens of times since x/y, then yes, yes it is that easy. models and animations aren't platform specific


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## PrincessLillie (Jun 13, 2019)

Daisy said:


> That, and Pokémon is one of the biggest media franchises of all time, they can damn well afford it.


Correction: It is _*THE*_ biggest _and_ highest-grossing media franchise of all time, at least according to Wikipedia.

I said it in the other thread, I'll say it again: _There is no goddamn excuse for this._


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## graeme122 (Jun 13, 2019)

Daisy said:


> From X/Y actually, I believe. The models in the 3DS versions were made to be future-proof, which probably explains why battles run so poorly in the 3DS games.



Is it just pokemon models that are reused, Or is all games since XY made at super high quality buildings and all and then scaled down to the 3DS. So could Sword shield be scaled down to 3DS also.


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## altorn (Jun 13, 2019)

Bedel said:


> The thing is: they have the models and the animations. This is not an excuse.
> Stop defending an incomplete game.



The models? Yes. Animations and special effects? Probably still incomplete.


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## gman666 (Jun 13, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> I do  get the rage, but it's ignorant.
> 
> People saying "Gotta catch 'em all"? How many did you catch INSIDE THAT GAME? The ones that spawn *IN. THAT. GAME. You already caught those others - in the other games! YOU ALREADY CAUGHT THEM ALL!*
> 
> ...


Your entire post is pure ignorance... It's not about just catching them all or "Oh no my shiny". People want to be able to experience the entirety of the Pokemon universe. There are a lot of people who have transferred their Pokemon from gen 3 all the way up to Sun and Moon. You can't expect people to just accept a huge feature to be cut and nothing is used to compensate (Gen 3 had Leaf Green and Fire Red). Competitively, this changes a large portion of the meta-game and it will make a lot of Pokemon redundant or just plain unusable. And your argument about file sizes is flawed because these are the exact same Pokemon models from prior games just using different shaders. Also, have you even bothered to look at the "High quality animations" that Masuda is so proud of?.... They're absolute shit


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## Shubshub (Jun 13, 2019)

We have a Hashtag going on Twitter right now so voice your displeasure there
#BringBackNationalDex


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## VartioArtel (Jun 13, 2019)

gman666 said:


> Your entire post is pure ignorance... It's not about just catching them all or "Oh no my shiny". People want to be able to experience the entirety of the Pokemon universe. There are a lot of people who have transferred there Pokemon from gen 3 all the way up to Sun and Moon. You can't expect people to just accept a huge feature to be cut and nothing is used to compensate (Gen 3 had Leaf Green and Fire Red).  Competitively, this changes a large portion of the meta-game and it will make a lot of Pokemon redundant or just plain unusable. And your argument about file sizes is flawed because these are the exact same Pokemon models from prior games just using different shaders. Also, have you even bothered to look at the "High quality animations" that Masuda is so proud of?.... They're absolute shit


You couldn't experience the entire pokemon universe IN ANY POKEMON GAME THUS FAR. That argument is so easy to poke holes in. You can't go to Kanjo Sectors in Gen 3+ games sans FR/LG and LGTH P+E, for example. And transferring pokemon was somehow not a huge deal with LGP+E, which is still extremely popular (although not AS popular).

Each one has been limited to, bar transfers, the pokemon IN THEIR OWN GAME. They've been limited to the REGIONS in their own game. You can still transfer your old pokemon - if they exist INSIDE THAT REGION in Sw&Sh's case. This implies that they more or less will establish a lore-based reasoning (I hope).

To complain about the Pokemon, but not complaining about being unable to visit old regions, etc, is a form of subtle hypocrisy which doesn't even come up considering Gen 2 and HG/SS have proven *that they can include multiple regions in one game*, and yet nobody has complained about them removing THAT feature, subtle as it is. Nobody complaining about them removing Mega Evolutions AND Z-moves (they said flat out Megamax is *replacing* M.Evos and Z-Moves, the former being a feature for 2 gens). No, it's for some reason the Pokemon themselves? I don't buy it. It's selective rage over a complete unknown on WHAT pokemon aren't coming, and I wouldn't be shocked if the pokemon not coming are ones you don't care much, if at all, about.

You have your reasons, but in the end, all I see is deflection. You claim I'm ignorant? You are ignorant how many Pokemon AREN'T coming, *WHICH* aren't coming, and you're raising a hella stink.


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## guisadop (Jun 14, 2019)

Looks like another generation I'm skipping then. Wasn't THAT excited for it already though.


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## gman666 (Jun 14, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> You couldn't experience the entire pokemon universe IN ANY POKEMON GAME THUS FAR. That argument is so easy to poke holes in. You can't go to Kanjo Sectors in Gen 3+ games sans FR/LG and LGTH P+E, for example. And transferring pokemon was somehow not a huge deal with LGP+E, which is still extremely popular (although not AS popular).
> 
> Each one has been limited to, bar transfers, the pokemon IN THEIR OWN GAME. They've been limited to the REGIONS in their own game. You can still transfer your old pokemon - if they exist INSIDE THAT REGION in Sw&Sh's case. This implies that they more or less will establish a lore-based reasoning (I hope).
> 
> ...


Let's go was not a main line Pokemon game and including other regions has been a feature that people have been asking about FOR YEARS. And people have asked about refining Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves since they've been released (Yet Game Freak continues to deny fans). Everything that you just posted only adds to the fact that people have a legit reason to be pissed about the continuously disappointing performance from Game Freak. I didn't mention any of those other facts because that is not what this discussion was about.


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## TangentingTangerines (Jun 14, 2019)

Pokemon Lets Go:  Only has 151 Pokemon, still has worse animations than Pokemon Stadium from 2 decades ago.
Pokemon Sword and Shield:  "We needed to remove Pokemon in order to have better animations."
Bullshit.  Animations still look just as bad as Lets Go from the footage I've seen.  Every Pokemon already has standardized animations, one for idle, one for special attack, one for physical attacks, one for appearing from Pokeball, just like in Lets Go, just like in Sun and Moon, just like in ORAS, and just like in X&Y.  I wasn't complaining about it up until Lets Go because of just how many Pokemon and how many moves they'd need to animate, but either give us good animation and a limited Pokemon roster, or give us shit animation and the full roster like you've been doing up until Let's Go.


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## Fugelmir (Jun 14, 2019)

It's amazing given the popularity and hysteria that the production values are always so low.


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## FMCore (Jun 14, 2019)

Huh suddenly this song is now relevant


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## AutumnWolf (Jun 14, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> You couldn't experience the entire pokemon universe IN ANY POKEMON GAME THUS FAR. That argument is so easy to poke holes in. You can't go to Kanjo Sectors in Gen 3+ games sans FR/LG and LGTH P+E, for example. And transferring pokemon was somehow not a huge deal with LGP+E, which is still extremely popular (Although *not AS popular)*.
> 
> Each one has been limited to, bar transfers, the pokemon IN THEIR OWN GAME. They've been limited to the REGIONS in their own game. You can still transfer your old pokemon - if they exist INSIDE THAT REGION in Sw&Sh's case. This implies that they more or less will establish a lore-based reasoning (I hope).
> 
> ...


Just stop, the point is you could still have the mon you wanted in all previous entries via a simple transfer or obtain them via "other" means but either way the option has always been there, not doing so now is just really lazy of them especially when you consider the models are the same from X/Y, etc

New Animations? yeah sure

And the game doesn´t even look on par with other Switch titles

Gamefreak is like a mobile game dev trying to make a big game for console

Also people HAVE complained about Mega Evolutions and Z-moves getting removed

Also also, it wasn´t considered a big issue in Let´s Go cause a lot of people don´t consider it a mainline game and more of an experiment


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## DJPlace (Jun 14, 2019)

no Arceus no buy.


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## SS4 (Jun 14, 2019)

I remember when there was 150 Pokémon (well 151).
There's just too many now, they can just stop inventing more and balance what they got if balance is the real issue as they have hinted . . .


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## nitrostemp (Jun 14, 2019)

just for all you bitching about the "gotta catch em all" thing. 
THAT'S THE ENGLISH SLOGAN. 
it japan it was just "get pokemon".
they have to import/ re animate a ton for this new engine.


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## GoldenBullet (Jun 14, 2019)

It's disappointing that they couldn't put them all in but there was probably a bunch of factors like pressures to keep a low file size, model/animation updating, and man power. I know it's weird to say but I never seen game freak as an amazing game company like naughty dog or square enix. Let's be honest, were the Pokémon games ever really that good or were they always games tailored for children. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet. They should have stopped new Pokémon a while ago and worked with what they had and expanding upon it.

Now let's be realistic, unless you want to truly and legally collect all of the Pokémon in the game, you probably won't Be affected much by this change. I bet they have statistics of what's Pokémon people use and Pokémon people never ever use.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises
Not an excuse


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## Thedge (Jun 14, 2019)

I think this is an understandable change. Sure, right now they might now HAVE to do this, but in the future it will become far more necessary as more mons are introduced and the standard for model quality and whatever gets higher. I figure at some point we'll see a pokemon side series game that's focused 90% on battling and skips out on story and world stuff, like the stadium games. That way we can have the main-line series that puts emphasis on story and world, and omits pokemon that aren't necessary or aren't in a specific region, as well as the battle oriented spin-off games that can have the complete pokedex and is more focused on competitive play.
Look at how popular pokemon showdown is, that game is 100% battles. I dont see a problem with them skipping out on the entire pokedex personally, i just play the games for the world/story and the new mons.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

SS4 said:


> I remember when there was 150 Pokémon (well 151).
> There's just too many now, they can just stop inventing more and balance what they got if balance is the real issue as they have hinted . . .


So... we are just going to ignore that Pokemon is the highest grossing franchise and last year had a total revenue of 90 billion dollars?
No. I don't buy it.


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## Sheimi (Jun 14, 2019)

I hope they will add everything else as a DLC...


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

OK.... deep breath.....
So are we just going to ignore that pokemon is the highest grossing franchise and ignore the fact that they already have models for these pokemon?
And before anyone says _the models have to be incompatible from when they made it in x and y_
Which I call bullshit, since gamefreak already knew they were going to have issues which is why they CREATED ALL THOSE MODELS IN THE FIRST PLACE. and I highly doubt they are that stupid to create models that cannot be reused.
And if animation is a problem which I call bullshit again. They more than have the cash to do it.
And no, I don't expect them to make ever single Pokemon possible to to wildly encountered.
I do expect though that they at least let us transfer them. And if balance was such a big issue, then why didn't they delay the game?!


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## goldensun87 (Jun 14, 2019)

Let's be real here, the true reason Nintendo/Game Freak cut out so many mons, was to prevent PKHex users from genning anything and everything we want.  PKHex is also the reason they cut out the National Dex, to prevent us from completing the National Dex with just a few clicks.


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## Lacius (Jun 14, 2019)

goldensun87 said:


> Let's be real here, the true reason Nintendo/Game Freak cut out so many mons, was to prevent PKHex users from genning anything and everything we want.  PKHex is also the reason they cut out the National Dex, to prevent us from completing the National Dex with just a few clicks.


This has nothing to do with their decision. PKHex is an inevitability regardless of how many Pokemon are present in Sword/Shield, and their decision actually incentivizes modifications.


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## Chizko (Jun 14, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> OK.... deep breath.....
> So are we just going to ignore that pokemon is the highest grossing franchise and ignore the fact that they already have models for these pokemon?
> And before anyone says _the models have to be incompatible from when they made it in x and y_
> Which I call bullshit, since gamefreak already knew they were going to have issues which is why they CREATED ALL THOSE MODELS IN THE FIRST PLACE. and I highly doubt they are that stupid to create models that cannot be reused.
> ...



so you're demanding for a game to your taste....then you never buy a game....this is very childish


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## MoralHD (Jun 14, 2019)

If it’s all because of the Dynamax Mechanic, I’ve got one thing to say... STOP PUTTING STUPID SHIT IN YOUR GAMES! No one likes Megas or z moves, hence why they were removed. Why do they do dis ;-;


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## Lacius (Jun 14, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So... we are just going to ignore that Pokemon is the highest grossing franchise and last year had a total revenue of 90 billion dollars?
> No. I don't buy it.


I figuratively don't buy it, and I literally won't buy it.



MoralHD said:


> If it’s all because of the Dynamax Mechanic, I’ve got one thing to say... STOP PUTTING STUPID SHIT IN YOUR GAMES! No one likes Megas or z moves, hence why they were removed. Why do they do dis ;-;


The Dynamax Pokemon are so big, there's no more space left for other Pokemon.


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## Sakitoshi (Jun 14, 2019)

I knew this was gonna happen sooner than later, they should have known that they were shooting themselves in the foot  releasing so many pokemons every generation.
around gen 4 or 5 would have been a good time to stop releasing new pokemons, or at least not that many just a couple new ones outside of the obligatory legendaries (that are the main excuse to release new games really).

on the other hand, they have been selling pokemon games like there is no tomorrow and while I don't know their financial situation I think they could afford to hire more people to work on those animations (since they already have the models rigged and all) even if is just temporarily.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

Daisy said:


> From X/Y actually, I believe. The models in the 3DS versions were made to be future-proof, which probably explains why battles run so poorly in the 3DS games.


The models go as far back as Pokedex 3D Pro

Personally I like that they're cutting back and giving us a carefully curated experience.

The real crime is pushing smartphones and smart tech on children with the Rotom phone.


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## Deleted-236924 (Jun 14, 2019)

kuwanger said:


> Literally that's the defining quality of Pokemon that created fans of the series. Of course, the real solution is to acknowledge that Pokemon can "go extinct" after a while. Maybe Pokemon: Apocalypse to reboot the series? I mean, that worked for X-Men, right?



They had the perfect opportunity for a reboot with their Ultra Space and Ultra Beasts business. Make a completely new game set in an alternate dimension in Ultra Space, with a Pokédex comprised of 150-250 Ultra Beasts, with every other Pokémon not being available at all within the games. It's there, they could have done it, but they didn't, and instead they did this half-assed thing where certain Pokémon can be transferred and others can't, for no reason other than "we felt like including these but not these."

If they really think there are too many Pokémon and they wanted to cut back on it. Make a proper reboot. Then they could have used that opportunity to redo the game's balancing, or whatever their excuse was.



kuwanger said:


> PS - Never been a Pokemon fan precisely because it was always rooted around gotta catch 'em all and the progressively expanding Pokemon base/abilities to drive more sales.  It's good to see it's finally biting them in the ass.  *The only thing left is when they start offering Pokemon DLC.*



Too late, they already made Mew a $50 paid DLC in Let's Go. And people actually defended this.



VartioArtel said:


> Also you got to remember that every Pokemon added is file size. At some point, those Switch carts can't handle all that info. They have to cut the memory cap eventually, and the easiest way to do that? Superfluous pokemon. Cuts down on that many models worth of info and allows them to make more intricate maps, character models, etc.



Fact. Nintendo Switch cartridges can hold up to 32GB of data.
Fact. OR/AS were 1.8GB in size, despite containing the data for 721 Pokémon, and their alternate forms.
Fact. The models made for X/Y have been reused for OR/AS, S/M, US/UM, Let's Go, Pokémon GO, and are now being reused for S/S.
Fact. The rest of the Pokémon data is infinitely small in terms of data size, relative to the amount of space that the models themselves take up.

Do the math, dude. 1.8GB holds the data for 721 Pokémon, using the exact same models that are being used for Sword and Shield. Even if you assumed that the entirety of the game's 1.8GB of data was all Pokémon data, which it isn't, that still only makes 2.5MB per Pokémon, and that's an incredibly generous estimate. You could add 100 new Pokémon and it would only use up 100-150MB of data at best.

Fact. Sun and Moon left almost 800MB of free space on the 4GB of cartridge space that was available to them. Despite this, they were very lacking and a straight-up downgrade in terms of features, in comparison to its predecessors. Why didn't they use all of the space they had to make their games as good as possible? Oh right, I forgot, they needed to leave some free space, so they could add those extra features into Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon a year later (which are otherwise almost unchanged from Sun/Moon, I might add) and make people pay full price again for it. And even in US/UM they left almost 400MB of free space that could have been used to make the games better.

Turns out, "running out of space for good game content" is a myth, perpetuated by tech-illiterate people who have no idea how any of this stuff works. It has nothing to do with "including too many Pokémon", but everything to do with quantity over quality, which has been Game Freak's motto for a while now.

If higher capacity Switch cartridges are too expensive, which is a fair concern, they could simply fit the bare minimum on a smaller sized cartridge, and require a day-1 update to download the rest of the game. Other games do this, and yes, it would upset people, but nothing like the amount of backlash they would get from cutting so much out of the games for no reason.

In the end, it's all about business and profits. Pokémon being _the_ highest grossing franchise in media, they're at a point where the priority is to cash out and make as much money as they can on it for as little effort as possible, rather than focusing on actually making their games as good as they could be.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

Chizko said:


> so you're demanding for a game to your taste....then you never buy a game....this is very childish


Oh no. If they did that. I would buy it. And no it's not being childish it's knowing when a product is bad and not purchasing it because that is called voting with your dollar. It's not my tastes that is the problem, it's a staple that the pokemon franchise has had and until the entire fundamentals of it change, I will stand behind the fact it is a staple and a part of the franchise and should be part of this installment. And I find it unacceptable that they, a company with the highest grossing franchise cannot get all their pokemon they made into the game and come up with a excuse for it. I'm not asking for every single one to have a random encounter, I'm asking for them to be at least transferable.


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## Delerious (Jun 14, 2019)

Honestly, this is just another reason why they only should have been adding 70-100 pokemon per generation. The other is the lack of imagination with some of the pokemon they've created.


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## Hells Malice (Jun 14, 2019)

Not surprising given the effort required to model every single pokemon with all moves and other crap related to them. It gets worse every generation, but at least before being handheld games the graphics were pretty simple.

I have a feeling the rest will be added in time and just not for launch. Really pokemon could use a massive overhaul for balancing to make it actually viable to be a real competitive game and not just a joke one. Like 75% of pokemon are basically useless.


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## chartube12 (Jun 14, 2019)

Hells Malice said:


> Not surprising given the effort required to model every single pokemon with all moves and other things related to them.
> 
> I have a feeling the rest will be added in time and just not for launch.



No! As I said in another thread this isn’t gonna happen! Going forward only a selection of old will be available. The selection will be based on a combination of the regions theme and Japan popularity. Eventually this means many Pokémon will be left behind and forgotten about. I posted two of the links available to YouTube (in the old thread), There are many vids explaining. Each of them sharing the same source, the interview in very thread!


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## MalikTH (Jun 14, 2019)

Chizko said:


> so you're demanding for a game to your taste....then you never buy a game....this is very childish


It's not childish. Not purchasing a game is perhaps the best way to tell the developers that you don't like a product, or some part of a product. This is no exception. As stated before, "voting with your dollar."

I'm not getting these games until they announce plans to add support for old mons. _If_ they add support for old mons. Because at this point, if you transfer Pokemon that aren't in the Galar dex to Home... they just sit there, because transferring is one-way and they can only go to SwSh from there.


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## lone_wolf323 (Jun 14, 2019)

They really should of made a better way then pokehome. Honestly the games went to crap when they omitted national dex on s/m. Seems game freak is getting worse and worse


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## raxadian (Jun 14, 2019)

This barely count as news. Anyone remenbers Pokemon Third Gen? Also know as the money sucking generation. Even buying every game and having the Gamecube and GBA to Gamecube link cable you still were missing a few Pokemon you could only get as Nintendo events or by using a cheating device. 

Third Gen was the main reason I cheated like a bandit on the DS games to get any Pokemon I wanted.


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## Thedge (Jun 14, 2019)

raxadian said:


> This barely count as news. Anyone remenbers Pokemon Third Gen? Also know as the money sucking generation. Even buying every game and having the Gamecube and GBA to Gamecube link cable you still were missing a few Pokemon you could only get as Nintendo events or by using a cheating device.
> 
> Third Gen was the main reason I cheated like a bandit on the DS games to get any Pokemon I wanted.


you could still get the pokemon in gen 3 though. everyones issue here is that they are omitting certain pokemon entirely, like they wont be in the game at all, not just that they wont be catchable by normal means.


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## goldensun87 (Jun 14, 2019)

Lacius said:


> I figuratively don't buy it, and I literally won't buy it.
> 
> 
> The Dynamax Pokemon are so big, there's no more space left for other Pokemon.


Dynamax is a stupid and pointless mechanic, that is apparently taking up a significant amount of memory.  They should have upgraded Z-Moves to have a 5-turn cooldown.  That would have added an extra layer of tension and mind games to competitive play.


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## shadow1w2 (Jun 14, 2019)

Sixty bucks and we don't get to use all the pokemon we have, bit of a bummer.
I suppose Home will work as storage for everything else but I can see them selling the national dex as DLC.
Though I'd hope they'd offer a full expansion rather than just that but I bet you that's their plan.
Still if they make the most of it and really keep adding new places to explore and challenges etc, islands from older games like Kanto it would be well worth it. That or if the national dex would be cheap.
I mean it's strange they'd choose to remove it without thinking of a way to make money off it first.
Still better game balance is good too so I'm not all that torn by it.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

MalikTH said:


> . Because at this point, if you transfer Pokemon that aren't in the Galar dex to Home... they just sit there, because transferring is one-way and they can only go to SwSh from there.


Is that any different to just leaving your collection in Ultra Sun's PC box?

They're talking about adding features like trading to Pokémon Home, clearly they don't just want it to be a Bank successor, but a place for keeping and showing off your collection of Pokémon that you've gathered throughout the various games, hence the name Pokémon Home.

Think whenever Ash leaves on a new journey and only brings his Pikachu, leaving all his previous journey's Pokémon at home. At the end of the journey, he returns home and sees all of his Pokémon and brings all the Pokémon from his latest adventure with him.


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## MalikTH (Jun 14, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> Is that any different to just leaving your collection in Ultra Sun's PC box?
> 
> They're talking about adding features like trading to Pokémon Home, clearly they don't just want it to be a Bank successor, but a place for keeping and showing off your collection of Pokémon that you've gathered throughout the various games, hence the name Pokémon Home.


Okay, but you can actually _do_ stuff with the Pokemon in your PC boxes. Like Pelago, or maybe on the rare occasion that you do want to use them, you have the option. Here you literally can't do _anything _with them besides trade.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

MalikTH said:


> Okay, but you can actually _do_ stuff with the Pokemon in your PC boxes. Like Pelago, or maybe on the rare occasion that you do want to use them, you have the option. Here you literally can't do _anything _with them besides trade.


They haven't confirmed there won't be other features, and judging by the naming choice, I'm expecting it to be more than a Pokémon Bank 2 + trading.


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## MalikTH (Jun 14, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> They haven't confirmed there won't be other features, and judging by the naming choice, I'm expecting it to be more than a Pokémon Bank 2 + trading.


Well, as far as we know right now, that's what it is.


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## PK_FIRE (Jun 14, 2019)

Left Pikachu looks way better, looks like it came out the actually TV animated series which is great it has more details.



Xzi said:


> I think it really is just that simple.  The engine takes care of the rest.



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

PK_FIRE said:


> Left Pikachu looks way better, looks like it came out the actually TV animated series which is great it has more details.


I agree it looks better, but it's the engine and the shaders adding the effects which make it 'pop' more.  It's for sure the same model from 3DS/LGPE, just imported to UE4 or whatever gen8 is using.


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## raxadian (Jun 14, 2019)

Thedge said:


> you could still get the pokemon in gen 3 though.



Not if you didn't live near any place were Nintendo gave away the restricted Pokemon.

There also wasn't online trading in third gen.

Edit: Also, until Emerald, Fire Red and Leaf Green were released, there was a lot of common mon you couldn't get in third gen.


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## Thedge (Jun 14, 2019)

raxadian said:


> Not if you didn't live near any place were Nintendo gave away the restricted Pokemon.
> 
> There wasn't online trading in third gen.


get as in they were physically in the game. they technically were possible to get, even if you didnt have access to internet or whatever, their code exists in the games data, which cant be said for the pokemon omitted from SS from the looks of it.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

Be sure to buy Sword and Shield 2, where its the same game but you can actually use all the pokemon you've ever caught! All for another $60 usd


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## raxadian (Jun 14, 2019)

Thedge said:


> get as in they were physically in the game. they technically were possible to get, even if you didnt have access to internet or whatever, their code exists in the games data, which cant be said for the pokemon omitted from SS from the looks of it.



Considering the game is in 3D CGI, it was this or delaying the game for a year.

And they can't delay the game for a year cause money.



king_leo said:


> Be sure to buy Sword and Shield 2, where its the same game but you can actually use all the pokemon you've ever caught! All for another $60 usd



Or as DLC for the first game for just $30 usd.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

raxadian said:


> Or as DLC for the first game for just $30 usd.


This is Game Freak we are talking about. Its either going to be a third game with minor changes or a Sword 2/Shield 2 also with minor changes.


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## Beerus (Jun 14, 2019)

Yeesh im gonna pirate it but still i want my espeon and sceptile


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## Lacius (Jun 14, 2019)

goldensun87 said:


> Dynamax is a stupid and pointless mechanic, that is apparently taking up a significant amount of memory.  They should have upgraded Z-Moves to have a 5-turn cooldown.  That would have added an extra layer of tension and mind games to competitive play.


It's just another gimmick. I can take or leave mega evolution, Z moves, Dynamax, etc.

However, when it comes to my Pokemon from other games, that's another story. I said something like this earlier in another thread, but if I can't import all of my old Pokemon, then I'm going to view this game as more like Let's Go and less like a mainline game. And I'm definitely not going to play it in that case.


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## Enryx25 (Jun 14, 2019)

Beerus said:


> Yeesh im gonna pirate it but still i want my espeon and sceptile


lmao
Do you really expect GameFreak to keep all the starters when Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur are the most popular?


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## Beerus (Jun 14, 2019)

Enryx25 said:


> lmao
> Do you really expect GameFreak to keep all the starters when Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur are the most popular?


idk they be doing some whack shit rn


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## Cloud9Skywalker (Jun 14, 2019)

Pokémon Home is going to be a means to transfer my Pokémon strictly to SwSh?
Or will it work as a system to transfer between Let's Go, Go and SwSh?


Snugglevixen said:


> Is that any different to just leaving your collection in Ultra Sun's PC box?
> 
> They're talking about adding features like trading to Pokémon Home, clearly they don't just want it to be a Bank successor, but a place for keeping and showing off your collection of Pokémon that you've gathered throughout the various games, hence the name Pokémon Home.
> 
> Think whenever Ash leaves on a new journey and only brings his Pikachu, leaving all his previous journey's Pokémon at home. At the end of the journey, he returns home and sees all of his Pokémon and brings all the Pokémon from his latest adventure with him.


I have a hunch that Pokemon Home is going to be almost like a Pokemon Daycare app for you to visit, play and manage your Pokemon. Something tells me it will be interactive for the user and not just a 'bank'. Like @Snugglevixen mentioned. IMO It doesn't sound so bad. Correct me if I am wrong but if they are allowing us the opportunity to transfer even the Pokemon that will not be in the Galar region Pokedex to Pokemon Home there has to be a reason for that and not just to showcase as Trophy Pokemon. There has to be more to it in relation to the future of Pokemon.


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## seseiSeki (Jun 14, 2019)

I was already wondering when this would happen. Until now, they had to drag over everything from the older generations, like different evolution methods, form changing mechanics, etc. It would've been nice, if the "first big game" had all Pokémon, like some kind of final game for an era and then they start omitting stuff or start from scratch or something.
But if they're using "animation" as an excuse, I sure hope that we'll get better animations than those of the last few games. I saw a video on YouTube that compared the LGP/E and Stadium 2 animations. And the Stadium 2 animations were a lot better, because they didn't need to fit soo many Pokémon, like in S/M.

Edit:
Ok, just had a look at the list on Serebii. Never mind that argument about it being difficult to bring over all evolution methods. It seems like Gamefreak included maaany Pokémon that have evolution methods which are more complicated to implement. At this point, bringing over everything doesn't look like a problem anymore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Frexxos (Jun 14, 2019)

I am the only one who really is annoyed about having all Pokémon in the games? 
For me it is the best when you start a new game to only catch all of em in the new world. Different game, different Pokémon. I don't care at all....


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## goldensun87 (Jun 14, 2019)

Frexxos said:


> I am the only one who really is annoyed about having all Pokémon in the games?
> For me it is the best when you start a new game to only catch all of em in the new world. Different game, different Pokémon. I don't care at all....


You're missing the point then.  The problem here, is that many of the old pokemon will not even be in the programming of Sword And Shield.  It was bad enough that Gen 7 ditched the National Dex, but we could still hex in whatever we wanted or needed.  Without the necessary programming, these pokemon are absolutely cut from the game.

I, for one, haven't cared for catching as many pokemon as possible since Gen 6, because I can just use PKHex to complete the Pokedex, and spend time viewing all the Dex info, instead of spending time trying to complete it.


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## Bedel (Jun 14, 2019)

altorn said:


> The models? Yes. Animations and special effects? Probably still incomplete.


They are reusing models and animations. There is a discusion about this at thus same forum that may clarify that to you.


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## Taleweaver (Jun 14, 2019)

Wow...I've read all six pages, and quite some responses baffle me.

Personally, I've never played a pokemon game before (it just doesn't appeal to me). So I had no idea that every pokémon that was introduced at any time would remain in all future versions of the product as well. I had always assumed that "gotta catch 'em all" meant "gotta catch all the pokemon _in this game_". It would make sense, no? 

Other sequels rarely include all the characters of the previous versions, let alone do this every single time (heck...this is the very first franchise I've ever heard that did this). You don't expect barbie or playmobile to cram every single model they have in the box whenever you buy a new set, right? Fighting games often tend to minimize the characters, because they know that every character they add needs to be balanced against everyone else to prevent people from either ignoring it completely or (even worse) always picking it because it's plain better.

"but the catch phrase is gotta catch em all!"
If that's supposed to be convincing then I'm sorry, but it has a backwards effect: it lowers my expectations of your intelligence. In case you haven't noticed: catch phrases are meant to sell you something. They're invented by marketing in the hopes of selling the game. At best, they aren't straight lies. But they usually are the summary of the most optimistic version of the goal. In other words: straight lies. As such, I would reply to this with "grow up". It's one thing to nurture your inner child. But this is just being childish.

"but it's the highest grossing media franchise in the world"
So I've heard. And I won't lie: it's impressive (worth 10 billion more than the runner up, hello kitty? That DOES shape some expectations). And unlike some critics, I'm not of the conviction that they can't afford it. Or even make a loss on having to do extra work, for that matter. No...my criticism on this front is twofold:
1) like bitcoin, it is ultimately a model that cannot continue forever. No matter how you turn it, pokemon is still a game and not an encyclopedia or something. There is a point on which even the hardcore crowd is going to admit that actually catching them all has become an endless chore.
2) the 'less is more' principle. The more you add, the less individuality each single one has. There's already criticism that some pokemon look like a five year old fingerpaint drawing. Eliminating the worst improves the general likeness of what remains.


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## erikas (Jun 14, 2019)

I *might* be ok with it if they add competitive online battles to pokemon home with full 3d models, and the core games are just an adventure and a way to catch new pokemon. But i'm guessing thats not gonna happen.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Taleweaver said:


> Wow...I've read all six pages, and quite some responses baffle me.
> 
> Personally, I've never played a pokemon game before (it just doesn't appeal to me). So I had no idea that every pokémon that was introduced at any time would remain in all future versions of the product as well. I had always assumed that "gotta catch 'em all" meant "gotta catch all the pokemon _in this game_". It would make sense, no?
> 
> ...


If you never played a pokmon game before, then you probably don't realise that its exactly this feature that makes pokemon stand out from the rest of monster catcher games. That you can move your favourite compations from one game to another.


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## raxadian (Jun 14, 2019)

king_leo said:


> This is Game Freak we are talking about. Its either going to be a third game with minor changes or a Sword 2/Shield 2 also with minor changes.



The Switch does add the capacity to add a whole lot of stuff by DLC, but yes, programing all those extra pokemon would work better as a different game.



erikas said:


> If you never played a pokmon game before, then you probably don't realise that its exactly this feature that makes pokemon stand out from the rest of monster catcher games. That you can move your favourite compations from one game to another



You couldn't move Pokemon from  Second Gen to Third Gen, remember?


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## Taleweaver (Jun 14, 2019)

erikas said:


> If you never played a pokmon game before, then you probably don't realise that its exactly this feature that makes pokemon stand out from the rest of monster catcher games. That you can move your favourite compations from one game to another.


I admit: I didn't know that either. But still...isn't this just a problem for the group whose pokemon isn't available AND those not wishing to start over? 

It certainly makes sense to skip the game if you've 'raised' your pokemon over many games and won't be eligible to do it in this one, but wouldn't this outrage be only justified AFTER it becomes known which ones will be in the game and which ones don't? I mean...you say "your favorite companions" (at least I think that's what you meant to say). That isn't really true if people just want to export each and every pokemon they've ever collected. Which I can, to a degree, also understand. Just not as much.


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## EthanObi (Jun 14, 2019)

raxadian said:


> The Switch does add the capacity to add a whole lot of stuff by DLC, but yes, programing all those extra pokemon would work better as a different game.
> 
> 
> 
> You couldn't move Pokemon from  Second Gen to Third Gen, remember?



That's not comparable at ALL.

Gen III had Colosseum and XD:Gale of Darkness, which, when paired with Ruby/Sapphire covered all of the 249 Non-mythical Pokemon from Kanto and Johto, so there was a way to catch them all, as well as a way to consolidate them all into a single game version.
And even after that was done they made Fire Red/Leaf Green, which covered all of Kanto's 150 non-mythicals, as well as most (if not all) of Johto's 99, via the sevii isles.
Sword/Shield isn't the same because they're omitting ALL functionality of the Pokemon not in the Galar Pokedex.

Furthermore, their reasoning for this omission is a direct contradiction to their previous reasoning for why they made X/Y's Pokemon Sprites the way they did, as well as currently seen game footage of Sword/Shield.

on a Final note: With the game slated for November 15th, There's basically NO chance of Game Freak doing a 180 on this, even though it should've been obvious people don't want ANY Pokemon from generations past erased, after the Fiasco that was Black/White, Expect a Sword 2 and Shield 2 in 2021, which will have all of the past Pokemon, and a slightly altered story Ala Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon.


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## erikas (Jun 14, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> I admit: I didn't know that either. But still...isn't this just a problem for the group whose pokemon isn't available AND those not wishing to start over?
> 
> It certainly makes sense to skip the game if you've 'raised' your pokemon over many games and won't be eligible to do it in this one, but wouldn't this outrage be only justified AFTER it becomes known which ones will be in the game and which ones don't? I mean...you say "your favorite companions" (at least I think that's what you meant to say). That isn't really true if people just want to export each and every pokemon they've ever collected. Which I can, to a degree, also understand. Just not as much.


I am confident most of my favorites will make it, but here's the thing, i made a living dex of all the pokemon that currently exists. I did this back in X, i transferred it to omega ruby and then to moon to ultra moon, adding the newly added pokemon. And now part of it will forever be stuck in pokemon home. But here's a better example imagine if Wizards of the coast said "half of magic the gathering cards can no longer be used, you can't have them in your deck anymore". Do you think it would matter which ones they took out? The outrage would be massive.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jun 14, 2019)

As someone who's always been more of a SMT (mainly Persona, but the main series and its spin-offs are definitely interesting) fan, I understand why they don't have every monster in each and every game: because then we'd never get anymore spin-offs, and it seems like those are in limited supply in modern day ATLUS as is already outside of Persona which has had the SMT namesake dropped from it after the initial PS2 release of Persona 4!

But for Pokemon, which is the most popular I think it's ever been in these past few years, especially after the explosion in popularity it received via Pokemon GO, this looks pathetic. Not only is Nintendo doing so much better than they ever have before because of how far portable hardware has come, but you're telling me they don't have enough money to throw at one of their biggest franchises after Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong to help it reach a zenith in quality to coincide with this Wii-era resurgence of Nintendo hardware?

I'm calling it now: after the Switch, Nintendo is going to fuck up with their next console, if they make one at all and don't just release an improved Switch, as I don't see them doing anything but that from a logical point of view considering how easy of a sell the idea is compared to any other console outside of graphical horsepower which, if the Nintendo Switch can run _The Witcher 3 _of all of the games that have been ported to the Switch, fuck off out of here with excuses outside of games from 2018/2019 that push the anemic hardware of the base versions of both the PS4 and the XBone about it being "too much work to put in, animate, balance, and make unique every Pokemon ever made" I know there's some that are more iconic/popular/modernized Pokemon out there, but honestly, you can't not meet expectations at such a crucial time for the Switch as the launch of a new Pokemon game. The reason Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, Smash Ultimate, and a lot of other big Nintendo games are popular on the Switch is because they made such a strong impression that made people want the system that normally wouldn't buy a Nintendo console. Add onto that all of the third party support the console is getting (even if it's mostly ports of older games, having all of that on a device that's _truly _portable is a lot better than having something like Resident Evil 5/6 + the two Revelations games on something like the Wii U that was the Switch being tried too early and too fucking close to the introduction of the iPad of all devices), and there's honestly never been a better time to be a Nintendo fan.


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## raxadian (Jun 14, 2019)

Kyouhei.

When Ruby and Sapphire was released, yes the previous Pokemon were in the game but the only way to get them all was by using Gameshark. 

Ruby and Sapphire was released worldwide on 2003.

Pokemon Colosseum was released Worldwise on 2004.

Pokémon FireRed andLeafGreen was released Worldwide on 2004.

Pokemon Emerald was released worldwide on 2005. 

Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness was released Worldwide on 2005.

So that's two years... and even then you still needed offline Pokemon events to get a few Pokemon.


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## Taleweaver (Jun 14, 2019)

erikas said:


> I am confident most of my favorites will make it, but here's the thing, i made a living dex of all the pokemon that currently exists. I did this back in X, i transferred it to omega ruby and then to moon to ultra moon, adding the newly added pokemon. And now part of it will forever be stuck in pokemon home. But here's a better example imagine if Wizards of the coast said "half of magic the gathering cards can no longer be used, you can't have them in your deck anymore". Do you think it would matter which ones they took out? The outrage would be massive.


Hmm...I understand your position. I really do. But this is DESPITE your analogy, rather than because. 

Because I've played magic: the gathering for quite some time. From 1995 to 2010 or something. And I was thinking of mentioning that as well, because outphasing, banning, errata-ing and restricting cards is EXACTLY what they do. And for good reason. Yes, they create some cards somewhat better than others, and somewhat steer the meta-game. But what they actively try to avoid is that everyone ends up playing with the same deck because it beats out everything else.

Every new edition has some new cards as well as some older cards that are no longer allowed to be used. Of course they don't come to your house to lay it on you when you use cards from outphased editions in your deck, but that's akin to just keep playing your current pokemon game.

So...no. I'm sure there is some outrage whenever a card is deemed too powerful, but their restrictions are heralded rather than banned (whenever a new edition comes out, it is simply standard that cards from the old block can no longer be used).


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

erikas said:


> I am confident most of my favorites will make it, but here's the thing, i made a living dex of all the pokemon that currently exists. I did this back in X, i transferred it to omega ruby and then to moon to ultra moon, adding the newly added pokemon. And now part of it will forever be stuck in pokemon home. But here's a better example imagine if Wizards of the coast said "half of magic the gathering cards can no longer be used, you can't have them in your deck anymore". Do you think it would matter which ones they took out? The outrage would be massive.


TCGs have been doing that for a long time. Pokemon only lets you use cards from the past couple of years and Yu-Gi-Oh keeps banning popular cards due to Konami constantly breaking the game.


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## bjaxx87 (Jun 14, 2019)

Reminds me of the first and Japan-only Pocket Monsters Stadium game which didn't support all 151 Pokémon. I wouldn't be surprised about "Ultra Shield" and "Ultra Sword" supporting all of them like Pocket Monsters Stadium 2 (Pokémon Stadium in the west) back in the day.

I agree that they very well could afford animations for all the Pokémon considering the cash the series is generating on a regular basis. Just outsource the work if necessary. They could recycle them in future installments of the series so it's not like the effort is just for one title.


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## lordelan (Jun 14, 2019)

Although I can somehow understand his "reasons", this is a really really bad decision and in my mind they had enough time and man-power to include "em all".
At least Charmander and Mew are in there so I might give it a shot nevertheless.
But I think they will do something about this with all fans complaining.
I mean look how fast they reacted to the fact you can't play SMM2 online with friends. And yeah, Banjo is in Smash now too, so ...


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## MYFW (Jun 14, 2019)

Ok, and...?


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## erikas (Jun 14, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> TCGs have been doing that for a long time. Pokemon only lets you use cards from the past couple of years and Yu-Gi-Oh keeps banning popular cards due to Konami constantly breaking the game.





Taleweaver said:


> Hmm...I understand your position. I really do. But this is DESPITE your analogy, rather than because.
> 
> Because I've played magic: the gathering for quite some time. From 1995 to 2010 or something. And I was thinking of mentioning that as well, because out phasing, banning, errata-ing and restricting cards is EXACTLY what they do. And for good reason. Yes, they create some cards somewhat better than others, and somewhat steer the meta-game. But what they actively try to avoid is that everyone ends up playing with the same deck because it beats out everything else.
> 
> ...


I know pokemon has been doing that for competitive play, the problem is, at home you can still play with any cards. And playing the older game is not comparable here. You would still have all your cards in one place and be able to build a deck from all of them. But the older games do not support gen 8 pokemon and since gen 8 will not support some older pokemon, you essentially have a permanent split, and there are combinations of teams you can never make. The thing is, i'm not much of a competitive player nor do i spend that much time building teams, but this isn't as much about about what i do as what i'm limited to doing. I am biased here, as I work as a programmer and lack of backwards compatibility is annoying even outside of games and it upsets me to see anything doping it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



bjaxx87 said:


> Reminds me of the first and Japan-only Pocket Monsters Stadium game which didn't support all 151 Pokémon. I wouldn't be surprised about "Ultra Shield" and "Ultra Sword" supporting all of them like Pocket Monsters Stadium 2 (Pokémon Stadium in the west) back in the day.
> 
> I agree that they very well could afford animations for all the Pokémon considering the cash the series is generating on a regular basis. Just outsource the work if necessary. They could recycle them in future installments of the series so it's not like the effort is just for one title.


I think Masuda said there will never be a pokemon game that support all pokemon ever again. If the next game had them all this wouldn't be such a big deal.


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## pasc (Jun 14, 2019)

Hmm... I didn't know there was a superlative to "most disapponted"


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## warweeny (Jun 14, 2019)

Just wait for next year, when ultra sword en ultra shield come along with ALL pokemon, we all know it is coming seeing nintendo has bad practices.

I honestly still am surprised how nintendo fanboys can defend the company, hardware from 2011 sold for 10x the price, bad support of controllers and games (patches destroying compatibility with 3rd party controllers), bullshit "sales" on their e-shop (zelda, now 65 euro instead of 70! WHAT A STEAL!), refreshing the line-up of their handhelds (switch is a handheld, NOT a console, if that was the case, the PSP was also a console, you can hook that up to your TV as well) so your old device is obsolete, not to mention the aggresive handling of copyright on media and sites.

The company is truly sickening, and a shame not many see it.


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## Agahniim (Jun 14, 2019)

This thread is full of entitled gamurs demanding the game to fit their needs. Play with some new mons for once will ya?


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 14, 2019)

honestly im not too fussed, i know they will have all the major popular pokemon, over the years there has been a big amount of dupe pokemon and trash pokemon that clog up the pokedex, im sure everyone will know a few pokemon that make you go "urgh, that design is so dumb" thinks like garbodor, vanillish, Chandelure,klefki i know some people will probably like them or say they had some unique battle style or some shit, but it does start to feel like pokemon has turned into pokerandomthings we saw while looking around the office for new idea

i guess its time for some to go to the pokemon retirement home


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## Agahniim (Jun 14, 2019)

first gen pokemon: eggs, pokeballs, garbage (grimer/muk). is this not random to you? just take an ordinary rat and slap purple on it? raticate is really just a big rat. every gen has its stinkers, but we forgive the first couple of generations because of nostalgia. klefki is just one mon from gen vi. there's also greninja and delphox. very ironically you tell others are old, while it is most certainly you that is blinded by childhood nostalgia


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 14, 2019)

I personally dont see the problem it gives you a fresh start  so stop your bitching and just play the damn game or dont buy it and not ruin it for those that will enjoy the experience.


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## gamesquest1 (Jun 14, 2019)

Agahniim said:


> first gen pokemon: eggs, pokeballs, garbage (grimer/muk). is this not random to you? just take an ordinary rat and slap purple on it? raticate is really just a big rat. every gen has its stinkers, but we forgive the first couple of generations because of nostalgia. klefki is just one mon from gen vi. there's also greninja and delphox. very ironically you tell others are old, while it is most certainly you that is blinded by childhood nostalgia


yeah but there does become a difference when you just start lumping inanimate objects into the mix, chandeliers an ice cream and a set of keys , i would say grimer and muk go into that realm, but i guess its possible you could have some sludge covered sewer dweler, it also comes down to "dupe" like every generation has added a new bulbasaur squirtle and charmander starter set 

idk i guess what im getting at is that maybe a little cull could be good to clear up the roaster a little, i wouldn't mind a new pokemon with all new pokemon and zero original pokemon available, things get a little stale when everyone just gravitates to "ahhhh i will recreate my team from pokemon blue and swap out the legendary birds for whatever the new legendary pokemon are"


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## rensenware (Jun 14, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


Delay the game until they can do that. There isn't really an excuse for this except laziness and desire to rush out a game.


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## Lokaijz (Jun 14, 2019)

Although it seems important to spread the information (which unfortunately is true) I think it's ideal to demonstrate our disappointment to the main media (Pokemon Company twitter,etc).
https://twitter.com/hashtag/bringbacknationaldex?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^hashtag


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## Izual Urashima (Jun 14, 2019)

This is... I actually have no words to resume this.

For collectionners, this is a huge drawback. Not being able to carry their beloved mons they had since RSE. Not being able to bring back shinies they were lucky to catch in those versions. Giving up all the personal attachment they had to some pokes simply because Game Freak didn't deem them worthy of appearing in their newest game.

Their excuses hold no water. You can't cry that "we need to reduce the number to have better animations/quality" when the models and animations are outright imported from the previous games with a shader on them. You can't cry about balancing issues where there are already tools in place (in-game checks for pirated pokes, restriction to this gen's pokes and moves for tourmanent-useable pokes) to take care of that. You can't tell people "you will still be able to use them in the Bank-like utility we sell on the side" when they want to use them on the main game. That's avoiding the problem.

I approve the players' move to try and #BringBackNationalDex , but it won't be listened as Game Freak only cares about using the licence to make more money. The only exception would be if, like the complaints that actually brought a change, Game Freak or Nintendo's shareholders would be politely alerted that such a decision could impact their sales, which is easily done by adding the companies' stock market code (good thing they actually share the same one, NTDOY) like you would add a hashtag to your posts (except with a $ in place of the #).

The release is coming near, but this decision will hurt the sales unless they come back on it.


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## bixxewoscht (Jun 14, 2019)

I understand that this is dissapointing for Pokemon Veterans, but it might even be a breath of fresh air.
A new adventure with new Pokemon to discover and no way to use the same Pokemon again that you use for 20 years.

Personally I like the 1. and 2. gen Games way more than the newer ones, but I want to give these ones a try to kind of recreate the feeling that I had with gen 1. and 2. when I played them for the first time. 

I doubt that I will love the new games but I'll give them a chance.


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## Maq47 (Jun 14, 2019)

FMCore said:


> Huh suddenly this song is now relevant




Also somewhat relevant:


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## Burorī (Jun 14, 2019)

Robika said:


> I invite to model, rig and animate 900 unique freaking monsters. It is insane, even for Game freak.


They can recycle models and animations like they did for Pokémon GO


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## digipimp75 (Jun 14, 2019)

Cue nerd rage


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## zxr750j (Jun 14, 2019)

It's a bad decision but as long as mimikyu is available i'm good.


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## pasc (Jun 14, 2019)

PugCruz said:


> People will still defend this even though the game looks far worse than the average switch game. Maybe if the animations were really good I would not care as much, but they are mostly the same lame recycled 3ds animations.


Thats the problem with gaming/development these days:

Companies get away with that kind of Cr4#, so they keep doing it.

Even in the DS days, they had to deliver finished products.

Nowadays ? Wherrrr iz dat 45 gb day one patch ?




zxr750j said:


> It's a bad decision but as long as mimikyu is available i'm good.



Kind of selfish reasoning really. Then again, thats how people usually work.

If peole were smart, they'd boycott this game on release, until they'd reverse their "decision"


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## Enryx25 (Jun 14, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> I personally dont see the problem it gives you a fresh start  so stop your bitching and just play the damn game or dont buy it and not ruin it for those that will enjoy the experience.



I hope GameFreak will never make your favorite Pokemon playable again.


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## osaka35 (Jun 14, 2019)

Is this their answer to "how do we keep making pokemon after 1000?". Because that's a bad answer. You fraction the userbase and make a lot of people dissapointed.


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## JazzCat.CL (Jun 14, 2019)

I hope they fix this or at least include them via updates, that could be a "healthy" fix


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## Condarkness_XY (Jun 14, 2019)

It will be a great day when we get a complete game with all Pokémon, open world and all regions. That day is a dream very far off.


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## Lumstar (Jun 14, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> Is this their answer to "how do we keep making pokemon after 1000?". Because that's a bad answer. You fraction the userbase and make a lot of people dissapointed.



While this was inevitable, E3 was a horrible choice of time to announce it.

Eventually there's going to be 1000s of Pokemon and it'll no longer be feasible to include them all in the development cycle of one game.


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## raxadian (Jun 14, 2019)

bjaxx87 said:


> Reminds me of the first and Japan-only Pocket Monsters Stadium game which didn't support all 151 Pokémon. I wouldn't be surprised about "Ultra Shield" and "Ultra Sword" supporting all of them like Pocket Monsters Stadium 2 (Pokémon Stadium in the west) back in the day.
> 
> I agree that they very well could afford animations for all the Pokémon considering the cash the series is generating on a regular basis. Just outsource the work if necessary. They could recycle them in future installments of the series so it's not like the effort is just for one title.



It was a spin off game.

These are main series games. 

A lot of people will keep playing Sun and Moon and Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon because Sword and Shield won't have their favourite Pokemon.

If Gamefreak had said Sword and Shield will be able to get Pokemon Transfered from the Let's Go Games fans wouldn't have outraged so badly since at least Sword and Shield would get the classic Pokemon.


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## Bernhard (Jun 14, 2019)

If they had cut out that dynamax shit... sorry for my language,   they would be able to transfer all pokemon to the new game... 

I think that decision was stupid.. . but i try to be open about it and i am happy beeing able to fight wildlife again


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## Glitchk0ud1001 (Jun 14, 2019)

It makes me angry Game Freak's Incompetence.


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## Dartz150 (Jun 14, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> I personally dont see the problem it gives you a fresh start  so stop your bitching and just play the damn game or dont buy it and not ruin it for those that will enjoy the experience.



You're right I won't be buying this shit.


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

JazzCat.CL said:


> I hope they fix this or at least include them via updates, that could be a "healthy" fix


they said in an interview that they have no plans to add back the missing pokemon , mega evolution or z moves in latter patches at all.


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## BlastedGuy9905 (Jun 14, 2019)

inb4 they pull a mario maker on us and change it in the last second so they seem like good people


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## codezer0 (Jun 14, 2019)

Game freak could afford to sublet the job to _effing DISNEY_ to crank out, rig, model and animate all 900+ critters, complete with (anime) vocals for the kind of ridiculous money they make off the franchise.

This is just peak turbo lazy at this point. Bad enough that they decided to "remedy" the performance hit of X/Y by basically disabling 3D support on the 3DS altogether. that was already an effing cop-out on their part.

Not surprising, but fucking insulting. Of course this would be Tajiri pulling this ego dick move.


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## KasaiWolf (Jun 14, 2019)

Ugh this is just sad. Defos a not buying from me, between not being able to actually catch em all and no Megas. These games are gonna be piss.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Good, I hope more and more people do this. It will teach GameFreak a lesson about not bringing out such a shit product.


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## Lacius (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> they said in an interview that they have no plans to add back the missing pokemon , mega evolution or z moves in latter patches at all.


They haven't made a decision one way or the other, technically.


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

Lacius said:


> They haven't made a decision one way or the other, technically.


saying they have no plans is no plans lol which by all means they dont have any plans to start working on the missing stuff so they likely wont.


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## mightymuffy (Jun 14, 2019)

Hehe, this takes me back to the days of Ruby & Sapphire when they left some out of those... that didn't go down too well either! I would suspect a 'fix' in some shape or other will appear soon... Maybe a new variant of Stadium/Battle Revolution gets released next year including all omitted Pokemon or something? It's not quite as dev heavy as a new game - simply transfer all animation from Sword & Shield, leaving them to work on the others..
I can understand the arguments from both sides of this particular fence though!


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

mightymuffy said:


> Hehe, this takes me back to the days of Ruby & Sapphire when they left some out of those... that didn't go down too well either! I would suspect a 'fix' in some shape or other will appear soon... Maybe a new variant of Stadium/Battle Revolution gets released next year including all omitted Pokemon or something? It's not quite as dev heavy as a new game - simply transfer all animation from Sword & Shield, leaving them to work on the others..
> I can understand the arguments from both sides of this particular fence though!


they actualy made another company genious sonority or whatever make pokemon colosseum and XD which had most of the missing ones, and then on fire red and leaf gren you had that stupid card thing where you could slide it an find some johto pokemons too.


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## Lacius (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> saying they have no plans is no plans lol which by all means they dont have any plans to start working on the missing stuff so they likely wont.


I wasn't saying you were wrong, but it's important to note that if they had decided additional Pokémon won't come via future updates, they would have said so. Instead, they specifically said they haven't made a decision one way or another. There's no need to get catty.


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

Lacius said:


> I wasn't saying you were wrong, but it's important to note that if they had decided additional Pokémon won't come via future updates, they would have said so. Instead, they specifically said they haven't made a decision one way or another. There's no need to get catty.


No plans is a PR response to basicaly say no, if you ask any developer like will X agme have a switch release? they will always reply we hae no plans on releasing the x game on the switch.

No plans is a negation, its not being either way, its a NO that PR teams use really.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 14, 2019)

I can't believe people actually want to cancel their preorders over this, esp. what I've seen on social media


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## banjo2 (Jun 14, 2019)

Why's this a big deal? Legit question here, not trying to prove a point. As someone outside of the franchise, I'd like to understand.


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## MalikTH (Jun 14, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> I can't believe people actually want to cancel their preorders over this, esp. what I've seen on social media


Not buying a game is possibly the best way to give feedback. Don't like something? Don't buy it. The developers don't earn as much and they realize something is wrong.


banjo2 said:


> Why's this a big deal? Legit question here, not trying to prove a point. As someone outside of the franchise, I'd like to understand.


You can't catch all of the Pokemon because you can't transfer from past games, a staple since the Game Boy Advance/DS games almost/over a decade ago.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 14, 2019)

banjo2 said:


> Why's this a big deal? Legit question here, not trying to prove a point. As someone outside of the franchise, I'd like to understand.


It's a niche concept. "Gotta catch em all" has been a thing since the Red/Blue/Green/Yellow days. In some form you've always been able to acquire all Pokemon in any given game. My personal opinion is that after Gen 4? It became tedious and only applicable to those who prefer to 100% or are just avid collectors of digital items.. We're now up to roughly 1000 different Pokemon. Do people REALLY want to go through the trouble of finding a way (most of you here cheat, don't lie) to acquire every single one of them? This doesn't affect me as I'm just a casual player and legitimately see no issue here. I can see why some are offended.


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## ignare (Jun 14, 2019)

A lot of great upcoming games have been delayed recently. If Pokemon needs to join that boat in order to have every Pokemon, so be it!


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## SonicMC (Jun 14, 2019)

I just find it funny. 3ds 40$ game... hear nothing about not having all pokemon available in some form. They up the price to 60$ and you need a 300$ console/portable and now they say not all pokemon aquirable... funny, Funny


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## Gon Freecss (Jun 14, 2019)

Remove the Dynamax gimmick and add all the Pokémon back


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## FanmadeEndings (Jun 14, 2019)

I'll honestly admit I sometimes was a game freak apologist, but not anymore. This is it. This is the first main series pokemon game I'm getting used since Platinum.


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

Memoir said:


> It's a niche concept. "Gotta catch em all" has been a thing since the Red/Blue/Green/Yellow days. In some form you've always been able to acquire all Pokemon in any given game. My personal opinion is that after Gen 4? It became tedious and only applicable to those who prefer to 100% or are just avid collectors of digital items.. We're now up to roughly 1000 different Pokemon. Do people REALLY want to go through the trouble of finding a way (most of you here cheat, don't lie) to acquire every single one of them? This doesn't affect me as I'm just a casual player and legitimately see no issue here. I can see why some are offended.


if  you can transfer past pokemons you only need to catch under 100 per game lol because you fill the dex with previous gen pokemon duh.


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## osaka35 (Jun 14, 2019)

I'm going to make myself look at it as if they're rebooting the series. Making sun/moon the last of the original series. Maybe my brain will accept it in time...


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I'm going to make myself look at it as if they're rebooting the series. Making sun/moon the last of the original series. Maybe my brain will accept it in time...


maybe lol, i guess the third version or the next gen will have more returning pokemon, i mean they are cutting like 80% of them anyway so lol.


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## SG854 (Jun 14, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Wow...I've read all six pages, and quite some responses baffle me.
> 
> Personally, I've never played a pokemon game before (it just doesn't appeal to me). So I had no idea that every pokémon that was introduced at any time would remain in all future versions of the product as well. I had always assumed that "gotta catch 'em all" meant "gotta catch all the pokemon _in this game_". It would make sense, no?
> 
> ...


Gotta Catch Em All I think was abandoned by 4th gen? I don’t remember.



The competitive scene is a whole ‘nother thing. Usually for balancing issues the fan community broke Pokémon into tiers, only certain Pokémon allowed in certain tiers depending on what tier you want to play.


Usually the goal nowadays is to not catch em all, but get the ones you like and have a huge list to choose from. I don’t think Gamefreak will properly address balancing issues TBH, I think the Tiers will still exist. They will probably rebalance the mons, but the nature of the game being huge I think balancing issues will still exist.


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## Lacius (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> No plans is a PR response to basicaly say no, if you ask any developer like will X agme have a switch release? they will always reply we hae no plans on releasing the x game on the switch.
> 
> No plans is a negation, its not being either way, its a NO that PR teams use really.


"Undecided" is the word that was used to describe future updates bringing old Pokemon over. That doesn't mean there are plans, and it in fact means there are no plans right now, but that wasn't how they answered the question, and it wasn't the PR response you're describing.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 14, 2019)

MalikTH said:


> Not buying a game is possibly the best way to give feedback. Don't like something? Don't buy it. The developers don't earn as much and they realize something is wrong.
> 
> You can't catch all of the Pokemon because you can't transfer from past games, a staple since the Game Boy Advance/DS games almost/over a decade ago.



I'm sure it will. If people can program all 850+ pokemon into a game, have them all use dynamax, have them all perfectly balanced and all within the constraints of Switch hardware, please, by all means let me know.



SonicMC said:


> I just find it funny. 3ds 40$ game... hear nothing about not having all pokemon available in some form. They up the price to 60$ and you need a 300$ console/portable and now they say not all pokemon aquirable... funny, Funny



Don't you just love double standards?


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## |<roni&g (Jun 14, 2019)

This is just to get yall talking like Mario Maker not having the option to play friends levels, then they announce its going to have multiplayer with friends and “hooray Nintendo listens to its fans” **fan boys kiss Nintendo’s ass**

Same with this, the Pokemon will likely be added in soon for another news story on the subject just to keep everyone talking


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I'm going to make myself look at it as if they're rebooting the series. Making sun/moon the last of the original series. Maybe my brain will accept it in time...


It is kind of a reboot since this is the first game to ditch the franchise formula that's been around since gen1.  To some extent I can understand the focus on this one negative aspect since its a doozy, but there are some really awesome features being added to S&S too.  An open world with dynamic behaviors for wild Pokemon, dynamic weather which affects spawn rates, random encounters mixed in, raid battles, stronger Pokemon the further you explore, etc and so forth.  They've basically turned S&S into a single-player MMORPG, which is a concept that can be expanded upon later, and a concept that I am very much on board with.  So yeah, definitely a buy for me.


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## rensenware (Jun 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It is kind of a reboot since this is the first game to ditch the franchise formula that's been around since gen1.  To some extent I can understand the focus on this one negative aspect since its a doozy, but there are some really awesome features being added to S&S too.  An open world with dynamic behaviors for wild Pokemon, dynamic weather which affects spawn rates, random encounters mixed in, raid battles, stronger Pokemon the further you explore, etc and so forth.  They've basically turned S&S into a single-player MMORPG, which is a concept that can be expanded upon later, and a concept that I am very much on board with.  So yeah, definitely a buy for me.


The open world is a glorified route with uninteresting environments.


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm sure it will. If people can program all 850+ pokemon into a game, have them all use dynamax, have them all perfectly balanced and all within the constraints of Switch hardware, please, by all means let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you just love double standards?


oh cmon ofcouser they can lol if 3ds can have 809 pokemons the switch can have 1000 easily, its not as much work as you think, they have the models already from being on 3ds and pokemon go they can improve them but i doubt they will, they will just put afew more vertices and then hd textures and make them.

Most of the extra work they get is because of useless stuff like pokemon amie and such where you play with your pokemon and they have new animations and such when you pet them.

Battle animations are very standard and models are mostly done, they just need hd textures and they are good.


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## LunarQueen626 (Jun 14, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I'm going to make myself look at it as if they're rebooting the series. Making sun/moon the last of the original series. Maybe my brain will accept it in time...



That's a good way of seeing it, imo. It is a reboot of sorts, since it is trying a new way of playing Pokemon games.


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

LunarQueen626 said:


> That's a good way of seeing it, imo. It is a reboot of sorts, since it is trying a new way of playing Pokemon games.


i didnt see any new way lol dynamax is just a new battle mechanic, you still just collect badges do turn based battles and win badges to beat the pokemon league while destroying a random evil team i guess.


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

jupitteer said:


> The open world is a glorified route with uninteresting environments.


'Glorified routes' are what we had in X/Y, they didn't even try to give the illusion of an open-world.  As for 'uninteresting environments,' we have yet to see even 1/10th of the world, but to each their own I guess.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> oh cmon ofcouser they can lol if 3ds can have 809 pokemons the switch can have 1000 easily, its not as much work as you think, they have the models already from being on 3ds and pokemon go they can improve them but i doubt they will, they will just put afew more vertices and then hd textures and make them.
> 
> Most of the extra work they get is because of useless stuff like pokemon amie and such where you play with your pokemon and they have new animations and such when you pet them.
> 
> Battle animations are very standard and models are mostly done, they just need hd textures and they are good.



Can't help ya there, man, it is what it is, nothing we can do about it.


----------



## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> 'Glorified routes' are what we had in X/Y, they didn't even try to give the illusion of an open-world.  As for 'uninteresting environments,' we have yet to see even 1/10th of the world, but to each their own I guess.


x Y was 10 times better than Sun and moon imo, they just were amazingly boring, srs its the first pokemon game i had to force myself to finish and i have thousands of hours on most of them since gen 4, the enterely of sun and moon was boring and it was never exciting or anything, i loved x and y tough, felt great.Still dont understand why we didnt get Z or ZX/ZY but sun and moon got an even more boring 3rd version with nothing worthy to had really.


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## Fer2317 (Jun 14, 2019)

Played and buyed every pokemon since blue red, and like someone already stated the gimmick in pokemon its "catchem all" and  not "catch a few that we put" so its a big letdown but on the bright side may be the fact that you dont have to focus on catching 800+ pokemons its gonna work in favor for a more fluid game and a fastest pokedex completion for the new generation of gamers, because lets face it complete the pokedex in USUN its a pain in the derrier it feels like a boring work that you have to do (if you are a poke fanatic like me) instead may be a pokedex less bulky and "easy to complete" give the new young gamers that feeling of acomplishment when they fill the pokedex for first time.


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> x Y was 10 times better than Sun and moon imo, they just were amazingly boring, srs its the first pokemon game i had to force myself to finish and i have thousands of hours on most of them since gen 4, the enterely of sun and moon was boring and it was never exciting or anything, i loved x and y tough, felt great.Still dont understand why we didnt get Z or ZX/ZY but sun and moon got an even more boring 3rd version with nothing worthy to had really.


Oh definitely, Sun/Moon are the only Pokemon games I actually hate.  Way too much dialogue, it feels like you're stuck in a tutorial for more than half the game.


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## rensenware (Jun 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> 'Glorified routes' are what we had in X/Y, they didn't even try to give the illusion of an open-world.  As for 'uninteresting environments,' we have yet to see even 1/10th of the world, but to each their own I guess.


The game seems to have wide open fields with no interesting routes through them like we had in previous games before gen 6. It's like they took the horrible region they had with gen XY and made it worse.


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## LunarQueen626 (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> i didnt see any new way lol dynamax is just a new battle mechanic, you still just collect badges do turn based battles and win badges to beat the pokemon league while destroying a random evil team i guess.



I mean more along the lines of making the game more accessible (aka: less difficult than the OG games).


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## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

LunarQueen626 said:


> I mean more along the lines of making the game more accessible (aka: less difficult than the OG games).


there isnt a single hard pokemon game lol, sun and moon were probably the easiest ones ever where they basicaly explained every single step of the way to you, and then lets go was even easier, so yeah i doubt this game will be easier than sun/moon or pokemon lets go tbh.


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

jupitteer said:


> The game seems to have wide open fields with no interesting routes through them like we had in previous games before gen 6. It's like they took the horrible region they had with gen XY and made it worse.


You have no idea where those wide open fields lead to, I think it's a mistake to assume it's just more of the same grassland forever.  Imagine it more like BotW: we're likely to see caves, icy tundras, volcanoes, a little bit of everything.


----------



## pedro702 (Jun 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> You have no idea where those wide open fields lead to, I think it's a mistake to assume it's just more of the same grassland forever.  Imagine it more like BotW: we're likely to see caves, icy tundras, volcanoes, a little bit of everything.


based on england i dont think we will see vulcanoes 
there is always caves on every pokemon game sine well ever so that is to be expected.


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> based on england i dont think we will see vulcanoes
> there is always caves on every pokemon game sine well ever so that is to be expected.


Fair point, will be interesting to see how closely they stick to realistic landscapes.


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## AlexMCS (Jun 14, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> there isnt a single hard pokemon game lol, sun and moon were probably the easiest ones ever where they basicaly explained every single step of the way to you, and then lets go was even easier, so yeah i doubt this game will be easier than sun/moon or pokemon lets go tbh.



Uh... no. I just finished Pokémon X main story last week having finished Ultra Sun and Sun an year ago.
Gen 6 was BY FAR the easiest, dullest and the emptiest, with the lame enemy team and your cheerleading rivals. I was more than 10 levels higher than anything the Elite Four had, with literally 0 grinding, and was usually overleveled for the whole game, even after switching like 5 pokes off the team for new, underleved ones (compared to the rest of the team), like my team was level 58-59 when I got the level 50 Xerneas. I still like it though, but it was definitely a huge step down from B2/W2.

Sun/Moon were instantly better for getting rid of HMs, having more of an impact in story and presentation, and a better enemy presence.
I had to have a HM Slave (Pangoro) for pretty much the whole X run.

Let's Go was just a nostalgia cash grab. Still fun, other than no random poke fights and that stupid aim to catch mechanic.

As for the "not all pokemon are available" controversy, I've always played like this, with each title being standalone, so it does nothing for me.
However, it is a huge blow to collectors/breeders/fanatics of the series, and I feel sorry for them.

What I do want from Nintendo (zero hopes in GameFreak doing it) is a Pokémon World game, encompassing all regions/mechanics.
But I doubt they will ever do it.


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## orangy57 (Jun 14, 2019)

all this just for a dynamax gimmick that a grand total of 2 people actually care about


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 14, 2019)

I don't play Pokemon  I play dark souls, Fire emblem and age of empires  you know games  that are not pointless and repetetive catch and collect-a-thons.


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## Xzi (Jun 14, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> I don't play Pokemon  I play dark souls, Fire emblem and age of empires  you know games  that are not pointless and repetetive catch and collect-a-thons.


No need for the superiority complex, the strategy and tactics skills required in games like Fire Emblem very easily translate to Pokemon.  Also there's plenty of item collecting that goes on in Dark Souls.


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## Deleted User (Jun 14, 2019)

Seriously, who cares as long as the game is actually fun like the DS games.


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 14, 2019)

but unlike Pokemon which is aimed at "CHILRDEN" let me say that again CHILDREN aged from 6. I play games that actually  require more thinking not just a rinse and repeat that has been going on for the past 20 plus years . Oooo throw a metal ball and enslave a animal to do more or less legal cock fighting. and fire emblem and dark souls aswell as age of empires are liteyears beter than a game that  requires no skill to learn and is target for CHILDREN NOT ADULTS!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

last time i played was soul silver and then i gave up after realizing the game got stale. and stagnated only kept alive though the 30+ year old players that should be doing other things with there life and not waste it playing something their own kids could play. Oh who am I kidding those virgins would get laid  unless it was pity sex  and even then that would be pathetic. Even the Sims has  more plot development than Pokemon.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> No need for the superiority complex, the strategy and tactics skills required in games like Fire Emblem very easily translate to Pokemon.  Also there's plenty of item collecting that goes on in Dark Souls.


To be fair, none of that is required to enjoy how casual Pokémon can be.


----------



## astrodraco (Jun 14, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> but unlike Pokemon which is aimed at "CHILRDEN" let me say that again CHILDREN aged from 6. I play games that actually  require more thinking not just a rinse and repeat that has been going on for the past 20 plus years . Oooo throw a metal ball and enslave a animal to do more or less legal cock fighting. and fire emblem and dark souls aswell as age of empires are liteyears beter than a game that  requires no skill to learn and is target for CHILDREN NOT ADULTS!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> last time i played was soul silver and then i gave up after realizing the game got stale. and stagnated only kept alive though the 30+ year old players that should be doing other things with there life and not waste it playing something their own kids could play. Oh who am I kidding those virgins would get laid  unless it was pity sex  and even then that would be pathetic. Even the Sims has  more plot development than Pokemon.


Honestly, what is the point of this message? Did you see the thread and get upset that people on a website formed from an adoration of Nintendo consoles has a discussion about Pokemon? Then you decided to click on the thread just to say you play over 9000 IQ video games?


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 14, 2019)

nope , just think pokemon is a franchise that should of ended with gen 2 like it was supposed to with the help of the late genius that was iwata that made both kanto and jhoto in one game made it the ultimate game to end the series on plus it had everything to give it the perfect send off.


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## SG854 (Jun 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> No need for the superiority complex, the strategy and tactics skills required in games like Fire Emblem very easily translate to Pokemon.  Also there's plenty of item collecting that goes on in Dark Souls.


Pokémon Conquest


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 15, 2019)

That game felt more of a  pokemon ranger  spinoff without the batonage mechanic added


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## AkitoUF (Jun 15, 2019)

Lazy Freak never fails to disappoint.
And each Pokemon game will continue to be worse and have less content than the last one as long as you keep buying them.
And sadly Pokemon fans are the easiest to please and will swallo any shit with the Pokemon logo on it.


----------



## SG854 (Jun 15, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> but unlike Pokemon which is aimed at "CHILRDEN" let me say that again CHILDREN aged from 6. I play games that actually  require more thinking not just a rinse and repeat that has been going on for the past 20 plus years . Oooo throw a metal ball and enslave a animal to do more or less legal cock fighting. and fire emblem and dark souls aswell as age of empires are liteyears beter than a game that  requires no skill to learn and is target for CHILDREN NOT ADULTS!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> last time i played was soul silver and then i gave up after realizing the game got stale. and stagnated only kept alive though the 30+ year old players that should be doing other things with there life and not waste it playing something their own kids could play. Oh who am I kidding those virgins would get laid  unless it was pity sex  and even then that would be pathetic. Even the Sims has  more plot development than Pokemon.


IV’s, Ev’s, Nature, Item Holding, Physical Sweeper, Special Sweeper, Mixed Sweeper, Tank, Abilities, Type Coverage, Entry Hazards, Lead, Crippler, Physical Tank, Special Tank, Move Choice, Team Building to cover weaknesses......


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 15, 2019)

This is further proving my point on why this game is played by the wrong people. I couldn't care less about iv/evs or whatever i just play the game beat the then sell it. end of discussion.


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## 00technocolor00 (Jun 15, 2019)

'I- I dont feel so good...'

While I dont agree with this but I understand. I think a lot of pokemon esp from older games need some stat changes and givin good moves. Like Pelipper got. (Castform is one I think is particularly neat but isnt usable cus its so weak. Ive tried.)  Theres limits to how much can fit on a switch cart. Maybe they can be part of an update later on :/


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## SG854 (Jun 15, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> This is further proving my point on why this game is played by the wrong people. I couldn't care less about iv/evs or whatever i just play the game beat the then sell it. end of discussion.


Then don’t complain about the game battle system being too simplistic. And praise other games for having depth. Then when I give you reasons on how it can be more engaging you then back away and say I don’t care about any of that. So the Pokémon game is perfect for you right since it’s simplistic and you can play casually and never come back to it again.


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## codezer0 (Jun 15, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm sure it will. If people can program all 850+ pokemon into a game, have them all use dynamax, have them all perfectly balanced and all within the constraints of Switch hardware, please, by all means let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you just love double standards?


Game Freak is infamous for laziness. The core mechanics themselves haven't really changed since the original glitchy mess that was the Game Boy Gen 1 release. Never mind with Masuda as producer, pretty much means we're going to have some pretty esoteric requirements for some specific sub-quests. Forget Pokemon that only show up once a week, that dude would make the rumor mill that got people to try to glitch to the truck outside of the SS Anne's tile-set in Gen 1 look pedestrian. Or did everyone conveniently forget the asinine requirements listed to get to the Regi's in Or/As?

Dynamax can be done with a simple scaling operation on the models/etc, and then programming moves accordingly. Removing megas and z-moves for it? that is a load of horse. And I'm not referring to zebstrika here.

There is no need for them to "program" 800+ pokemon. The program just loads the model for the 'mon, lets you pick the attacks and keeps track of which moves it's able to learn naturally, via TM, tutor, egg move, so on.

Game Freak however, are infamous for taking lazy cop-outs. They get privy to the SDK's of new console and handheld hardware faster than anyone but Nintendo internally. Yet they can't be arsed to give full speed 3D mode on the 3DS, and cop out of it by simply disabling 3D support altogether in successive games. Sakurai of Smash had better looking models at a faster frame-rate and input lag even with 3D enabled. GF and everyone there have _*Minus Infinity excuses*_ to validate this _dick move_ on their part.


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## Something whatever (Jun 15, 2019)

Well Pokemon is dead to me now. I'm sick of Gamefreak culling out GOOD and FUN features and either not replacign them with anything or their replacements being worse.

Yes lets remove this feature that lets some Pokemon be USABLE and get a cool new look and replace it with "Magic wand make my monster grow!" with no meaningful visual change or anything really interesting about it besides "Big monsters!"

On top of them now selectively deciding which of our Pokemon we've collected and trained over the years we're allowed to even bring to new games.

Like I'll still collect the cards and play the side games but I'm not support Lamefreak anymore.


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## Kurt91 (Jun 15, 2019)

I really hope that they either overturn this decision and add everyone back in, or they have some way of letting us continue to use our collections.

I've been playing the series in order from the beginning, using emulation and some tools to import my team from one generation to the next, mainly so I could get around the Gen III disconnect. (Yeah, if you import a save file from Gen I and II into certain programs, they can convert the data into a working Gen III equivalent) I've just finished Emerald, and I have Colosseum, XD, and either Fire Red or Leaf Green as far as Gen III goes, to try and get as many of my missing spots filled in before starting Gen IV.

I know at this rate it's going to be quite a while before it affects me, but it's really going to suck when I eventually get to Sword/Shield and all of my collecting is for naught. I mean, yes, I can always just import my compatible ones only, but I'm still going to have several hundred Pokemon that I can't do anything with. I know that a lot of people were complaining about things like Sun/Moon making it too easy to over-level, but I was honestly figuring that it would be helpful in getting my low-level Pokemon caught up more easily.

If Pokemon Home ends up being a one-way trip and essentially a glorified trophy case, then I'm not really sure what the point is. If they were going to do this, they should have just gone with "full reboot" and just stuck with only the new ones. The only way that I can see them salvaging this without going back on what they've said would be if they actually go with the pseudo-MMO route and have some sort of central open-world game or something where the point is no longer transferring everything to each new game, but transferring the new teams from each new game into this central game, and having it updated accordingly each time.

I honestly wouldn't mind something like Pokemon Box/Bank/Home for free, and then a monthly subscription for an open-world expansion to give you something to do with the stored Pokemon. Hell, it doesn't even need to really be open-world. Make it something like an airport and let people travel to Let's Go-styled rebuilds of each Region. (Let's Go-styled meaning 3D versions, not catching/gameplay mechanics)


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## Xzi (Jun 15, 2019)

WiikeyHacker said:


> but unlike Pokemon which is aimed at "CHILRDEN" let me say that again CHILDREN aged from 6.


There are people who think _all_ video games are for children, and you'd be hard pressed to change their minds.  Besides, children are able to adapt to and overcome difficult games anyway.  Dark Souls has nothing on Battletoads and The Lion King, which are the type of games I was powering through as kid.  Hell, I probably had more patience for difficulty spikes back then than I do now.

Though I do agree that kids today are spoiled on creatively bankrupt garbage like Fortnite.



Memoir said:


> To be fair, none of that is required to enjoy how casual Pokémon can be.


True, Pokemon is one of those franchises that's only as deep as you make it.


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## AlexMCS (Jun 15, 2019)

High Level PvP Pokémon can be harder than any of the games WiikeyHacker mentioned, but for casual play, literally anyone can beat it.


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## Ericthegreat (Jun 15, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> there isnt a single hard pokemon game lol, sun and moon were probably the easiest ones ever where they basicaly explained every single step of the way to you, and then lets go was even easier, so yeah i doubt this game will be easier than sun/moon or pokemon lets go tbh.


Eh, I wouldn't say red/blue/yellow(green too I guess) are hard, but I would not say a kid could easily beat them, for casuals these days they would be too "hard".


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## Deleted User (Jun 15, 2019)

AkitoUF said:


> Lazy Freak never fails to disappoint.
> And each Pokemon game will continue to be worse and have less content than the last one as long as you keep buying them.
> And sadly Pokemon fans are the easiest to please and will swallo any shit with the Pokemon logo on it.


This is true, I sold some dead AA batteries for $20 once because they were Pikachu branded.


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## madmert9 (Jun 15, 2019)

They didn't have to waste their time with something called "Dynamax".It was enough to adapt all of the pokemons to Switch from 3DS.They also say there are lots of pokemons and that's why they don't add all of them.I would rather playing with Sun & Moon Pokedex instead of new Pokemons.


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## KingVamp (Jun 15, 2019)

They did all that work, only for a lot of people to prefer Megas and Z-moves anyway.


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## Xzi (Jun 15, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> They did all that work, only for a lot of people to prefer Megas and Z-moves anyway.


All they had to do was give a select number of new and old Pokemon armored evolutions, and import the rest as is.  People would've been perfectly happy with that, even if mega evolutions and Z-moves were excluded.  I have no idea where the hell the idea for Dynamax came from, it's like they spun a wheel or drew from a hat.  "You know what the words 'sword' and 'shield' bring to mind?  Godzilla!"


----------



## ertaboy356b (Jun 15, 2019)

I hope they revise the EV IV system.


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## pedro702 (Jun 15, 2019)

AlexMCS said:


> Uh... no. I just finished Pokémon X main story last week having finished Ultra Sun and Sun an year ago.
> Gen 6 was BY FAR the easiest, dullest and the emptiest, with the lame enemy team and your cheerleading rivals. I was more than 10 levels higher than anything the Elite Four had, with literally 0 grinding, and was usually overleveled for the whole game, even after switching like 5 pokes off the team for new, underleved ones (compared to the rest of the team), like my team was level 58-59 when I got the level 50 Xerneas. I still like it though, but it was definitely a huge step down from B2/W2.
> 
> Sun/Moon were instantly better for getting rid of HMs, having more of an impact in story and presentation, and a better enemy presence.
> ...


sun and moon are the worst pokemon games, just look online and you will find lots of people ha to force themselves to finish them, the evil team was so dumb lol and their base attack had zero wow factor i take gen 6 over any day.

for me its

gen2>gen1>gen4>gen5>gen6>gen3>gen7

yeah i wasnt a fan of 3 either, dont know why maybe because of the water routes and the backtracking? no idea even when i was a kid i was like meh gen 3.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jun 15, 2019)

Good job Game Freak. It's not like they already have my animations and models for 800 Pokémon they could just reuse. They need to atop trying to reinvent the series because all they're doing is messing it up. Even Black and White which had no non-Unova Pokémon natively let you transfer the older ones.


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## Minox (Jun 15, 2019)

The 2nd generation was when I last enjoyed Pkmn. Ever since it just feels like they're rehashing the same games with increasingly weird-looking pokefreaks.


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 15, 2019)

ok i agree with fortnite that game is casual cancer.


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## KingVamp (Jun 15, 2019)

All this talk about pay DLC. It is almost like you want them to be in more hot water. lol


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## WiikeyHacker (Jun 15, 2019)

Just call me Natsumi not Wikihacker in truth it was all i could think up until i put my name under the wikihacker name


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## pedro702 (Jun 15, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> All this talk about pay DLC. It is almost like you want them to be in more hot water. lol


yeah lol, people already will need to pay for pokemon bank and then pay for nintendo online subscription just to get pokemons into the home to transfer what they can to the base game, let alone pay for dlc for the abilty to transfer some more lol.


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## Robika (Jun 15, 2019)

Burorī said:


> They can recycle models and animations like they did for Pokémon GO


They are saying that they want to make the Pokémon better looking and more charismatic, also I feel like they want to shake the meta of the competitive scene up by not including some older Pokémon. I feel like a future Pokémon game for the switch will have all the pokemon in it as big selling point, "Finally, you can catch them all!"


----------



## Xzi (Jun 15, 2019)

Minox said:


> The 2nd generation was when I last enjoyed Pkmn. Ever since it just feels like they're rehashing the same games with increasingly weird-looking pokefreaks.


Well, it _has_ been the same formula ever since gen1.  Unless you count Pokemon XD as mainline, gen8 is the first time they're changing things up in any meaningful way.


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## pedro702 (Jun 15, 2019)

Robika said:


> They are saying that they want to make the Pokémon better looking and more charismatic, also I feel like they want to shake the meta of the competitive scene up by not including some older Pokémon. I feel like a future Pokémon game for the switch will have all the pokemon in it as big selling point, "Finally, you can catch them all!"


shacking up the metagame lol, they will probably cut pokemons that arent popular like ledian, beedril and sunflora and let the powerful ones wich are also popular be in still, im preety sure they will base their choices with online usage of pokemons in past gens to see who made the cut.


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## NancyDS (Jun 15, 2019)

Daisy said:


> View attachment 169804​
> Following up on the Pokémon Direct on June 5th, Nintendo has revealed more information on _Pokémon Sword_ and _Shield_ at the Nintendo Treehouse Live at E3 event.[prebreak][/prebreak] The showcase revealed a few things, such as the new Pokémon Yamper and Impidimp, as well as other general gameplay.
> 
> However, during discussions with Junichi Masuda, he revealed that not every Pokémon is going to be available in _Pokémon_ _Sword_ and _Shield_. "What that means for _Pokémon Sword_ and _Shield_ is that players will be able to transfer their Pokémon from Pokémon Home, only if they appear in the Galar Pokédex." This means that certain Pokémon will be completely omitted from the game, for the first time in the series' history. Naturally, people are upset about this, leading to a whopping 40,000 dislikes on Nintendo's official upload, compared to the video's 15,000 likes. Part of the frustration comes from the idea that all Pokémon can be transferred to the new Pokémon Home service, and have no way of leaving, leaving them in what is essentially a Pokémon Prison.
> ...


Why do not they just put the National Dex in Pokémon Sword and Shield?

Maybe we'll use Cheats to catch the missing Pokémon or a Save Editor for games.

or better yet, when we pass the Galar Pokémon League, we will get the National Dex and we can fight with the other Pokémon, hahaha


----------



## Minox (Jun 15, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Well, it _has_ been the same formula ever since gen1.  Unless you count Pokemon XD as mainline, gen8 is the first time they're changing things up in any meaningful way.


That is the problem I believe. They seem always seemed to focus on increasing the amount of pokemon rather than drastically changing any gameplay mechanics.


----------



## mightymuffy (Jun 15, 2019)

Initially I was like wtf.... having remembered a similar thing with Ruby & Sapphire as I mentioned yesterday, but mulling over it for a bit and I agree with the decision: Gen 4 was for me the last one I bothered to 'catch em all' on, having started to transfer  on Black & White but becoming quickly bored - it's just too much of a chore, and also you're transferring over half the Pokemon rather than catching them, THEN using those over the ones you caught since they were OP...
Like has been said this would at least give the new Pokemon more of a spotlight rather than just waiting, for the 3rd Gen in a row in my opinion, for the earliest time you can transfer your big boys over..

To combat this, a simple Pokedex 3D remake for your National Dex needs, which perhaps awards you bonus items to linked games after you reach a certain number, etc, might be a good idea for release next year - you could catch em all on that. Then maybe as I said before, once all animations/models are finished a new Stadium - just for battling, and maybe some IV training or summat, using your Pokemon from the National Dex app...


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## RedBlueGreen (Jun 15, 2019)

NancyDS said:


> Why do not they just put the National Dex in Pokémon Sword and Shield?
> 
> Maybe we'll use Cheats to catch the missing Pokémon or a Save Editor for games.
> 
> or better yet, when we pass the Galar Pokémon League, we will get the National Dex and we can fight with the other Pokémon, hahaha


I think they might not even be programming in the missing Pokémon. Let's Go didn't have any Pokémon in the games files besides Kanto ones and Meltan and Melmetal.

There's absolutely no reason to have Pokémon missing from the programming so they can push this stupid Dynamax gimmick nobody wants. Should've just left in Megas and Z-moves and come up with a more interesting gimmick.


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## NancyDS (Jun 15, 2019)

RedBlueGreen said:


> I think they might not even be programming in the missing Pokémon. Let's Go didn't have any Pokémon in the games files besides Kanto ones and Meltan and Melmetal.
> 
> There's absolutely no reason to have Pokémon missing from the programming so they can push this stupid Dynamax gimmick nobody wants. Should've just left in Megas and Z-moves and come up with a more interesting gimmick.


Well, the National Dex is the best that the Regional Dex, since they show all the Pokémon, not like the Regional Dex that only show some Pokémon of the region.

Maybe Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee, will have a free update where they will include all the Pokémon of the National Dex, it is not known when that update was released.

I think it will also have an update similar to that in Pokémon Sword and Shield.


----------



## Mamothstard (Jun 15, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I think it really is just that simple.  The engine takes care of the rest.


Hell no.

Yes, they must have a high polycount sculpt that they can reuse for every 3D game nowadays. But still, you have to go from retopology, to skin, to rig and to animate.
You can't just copy/paste that's just not how that works.
Even if you could you'd need to be sure all your engines are cross compatible in terms of how they handle 3D assets.
They're running on friggin Unity or Unreal as far as I know.


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## xxNathanxx (Jun 15, 2019)

Minox said:


> That is the problem I believe. They seem always seemed to focus on increasing the amount of pokemon rather than drastically changing any gameplay mechanics.


Why should they have to _drastically_ change the way the games work? That's what spinoffs are for, and Pokémon, like most other Nintendo franchises, has plenty of those, in virtually every genre. You might as well claim that Halo is becoming stale because it's always "shoot the bad guys in a 3D environment", so the next game in the series should be _drastically_ changed to become a 2D puzzle platformer, or that Mario is becoming stale because it's always "progress through the level and jump on the baddies' heads three times to beat them", so the next game should be _drastically_ changed to become a party game (hey, that did that - _in a spinoff_!). Pokémon's core formula - catch monsters, grow them into bigger monsters, in a team of six monsters where each one has four moves (with Z-moves in gen 7, they technically had access to five), battle other monsters and monster tamers along the way - is rock solid, works really well, and is one of the main reasons why the series is so popular (besides the sheer amount of options in how you're going to build your team, from monsters to moves to equipment).


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## AlexMCS (Jun 15, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> sun and moon are the worst pokemon games, *just look online* and you will find lots of people ha to force themselves to finish them, the evil team was so dumb lol and their base attack had zero wow factor i take gen 6 over any day.
> 
> for me its
> 
> ...



Team Skull was a lot more meaningful and had a lot more fights and presence than Team Flare. Also, Team Skull was just another front for the dark side of Aether, so you got TWO meaningful teams in Sun/Moon, compared to the PoS that was team Flare, in both design and objectives.

X/Y was extremely linear too, with a weak story, terrible "rivals" and the easiest progression ever. You get 2 starters, 2 choices of Megas handed to you (2nd starter + Lucario) and the Box Legendary just from normal progress. Toss in that random Gible -> Garchomp you can easily catch before the power plant and the game becomes so stupidly easy (far more than any entry in the series, before or after it) that it gets boring.
It's absolutely insane that you have to actually nuzlocke or heavily limit yourself, WITHOUT any grinding, for the game to even have a modicum of challenge.

Of course, that is all (mostly) subjective, but there is NO WAY IN HELL X/Y is overall better than Sun/Moon. And I believe that sentiment is shared by the vast majority of players.

I call BS on your claim that people find Sun/Moon the worst.
Gen 6. is CONSISTENTLY the worst of bottom 2. Other than that, it's often below gen 7.

So, I "just looked online", and the results are as expected:

All I searched for was "worst pokemon gen".

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/74604908 - Gen 6 vs. Gen 7

-Among all gens:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/74754006
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/210930-pokemon-ultra-sun/75521046

-Outside gamefaqs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/5m02o5/rank_the_pokemon_generations_from_best_to_worst/
http://whatculture.com/gaming/every-pokemon-generation-ranked-from-worst-to-best?page=3
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/best-pokemon-games-ranked/


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## Exaltys (Jun 15, 2019)

Black and White was when the game started going downhill. Too many helper friend NPCs, random healing spots from enemy trainers, friend NPCs come out of nowhere and give you a random item and leave with no significance to plot, and more.


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## KingVamp (Jun 15, 2019)

I mostly don't buy extra potions and such for any Pokemon games. I end up either using just or mostly the ones I collected during the game. lol


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## GreywormJohn (Jun 15, 2019)

Well, that's bad news


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## Jiehfeng (Jun 15, 2019)

I just realized, it won't be that bad in a way...

All Legendaries
All starters
All known competitive pokemon
All famous pokemon
All cool looking pokemon

They could put all of these kinds of pokemon for the Galar dex and then a good majority won't complain, and there still is not much to animate. This way they could add better in depth animations as well. Still a bummer, but this is a good alternative.


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## KingVamp (Jun 15, 2019)

Lacius said:


> "Undecided" is the word that was used to describe future updates bringing old Pokemon over. That doesn't mean there are plans, and it in fact means there are no plans right now, but that wasn't how they answered the question, and it wasn't the PR response you're describing.


If this is true, maybe they aren't so set in leaving behind old Pokemon. I've seen "no plans" become plans before from companies.

That said, the fact that they even have to think about is disappointing.


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## pedro702 (Jun 15, 2019)

AlexMCS said:


> Team Skull was a lot more meaningful and had a lot more fights and presence than Team Flare. Also, Team Skull was just another front for the dark side of Aether, so you got TWO meaningful teams in Sun/Moon, compared to the PoS that was team Flare, in both design and objectives.
> 
> X/Y was extremely linear too, with a weak story, terrible "rivals" and the easiest progression ever. You get 2 starters, 2 choices of Megas handed to you (2nd starter + Lucario) and the Box Legendary just from normal progress. Toss in that random Gible -> Garchomp you can easily catch before the power plant and the game becomes so stupidly easy (far more than any entry in the series, before or after it) that it gets boring.
> It's absolutely insane that you have to actually nuzlocke or heavily limit yourself, WITHOUT any grinding, for the game to even have a modicum of challenge.
> ...


gamefak pools are nothing to go by, x,Y sold better and if you compile all critical clains it has highers values than sun and moon, and also lol those pools saying 1 and 5 gen are worse than 6 or 7 is ridiculous.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Jiehfeng said:


> I just realized, it won't be that bad in a way...
> 
> All Legendaries
> All starters
> ...


with only 131 returning pokemons they cant fit those all in lol, remenber pre evolutions take a slot aswhell so adding grachomp counts to 3 already so 800 something to 131 its a big ass cut.


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## Spookimuchi (Jun 15, 2019)

I keep seeing the tag #bringbacknationaldex and it makes me sad, even as someone who's never traded between games, seeing a good majority of the fan base out them on this is a pain to watch. There's just no excuse for this, especially if the models are being ripped from gen 6.


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## Glyptofane (Jun 15, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I'm going to make myself look at it as if they're rebooting the series. Making sun/moon the last of the original series. Maybe my brain will accept it in time...


Reboot is how I took it as well. I feel for the hardcore Pokemon base, but also understand where Game Freak is coming from having accumulated a somewhat unsustainable number of Pokemon species. This is certainly going to cheese off a huge swath of lifelong fans, myself included somewhat, but it doesn't really affect the approach and limited commitment I personally usually put into a mainline Pokemon release, so still intent on buying it.


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## pedro702 (Jun 15, 2019)

Spookimuchi said:


> I keep seeing the tag #bringbacknationaldex and it makes me sad, even as someone who's never traded between games, seeing a good majority of the fan base out them on this is a pain to watch. There's just no excuse for this, especially if the models are being ripped from gen 6.


the saddest part is pokemon go will have more pokemons catchable than sword and shield lol.


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## NancyDS (Jun 15, 2019)

Spookimuchi said:


> I keep seeing the tag #bringbacknationaldex and it makes me sad, even as someone who's never traded between games, seeing a good majority of the fan base out them on this is a pain to watch. There's just no excuse for this, especially if the models are being ripped from gen 6.


No more 3D models and Gen 6/7 animations for these games! 

 Now, these games will have HD models of Pokémon GO and with better animations than in Gen 6/7!


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## pedro702 (Jun 15, 2019)

NancyDS said:


> No more 3D models and Gen 6/7 animations for these games!
> 
> Now, these games will have HD models of Pokémon GO and with better animations than in Gen 6/7!


the sad part is pokemon go has  all pokemons from gen 1 to 4 so its almost 500 pokemon models all done hd with textures and yet they are only bringing back under 131  old gen pokemons so yes pokemon Go will have more avalable pokemons than the next mainline games lol.


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## hug0-a7x (Jun 15, 2019)

Watch the trailer for Dragon Quest Monster Joker and understand why the next Pokémon does not have all the Pokémon available.


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## AlexMCS (Jun 16, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> gamefak pools are nothing to go by, x,Y sold better and if you compile all critical clains it has highers values than sun and moon, and also lol those pools saying 1 and 5 gen are worse than 6 or 7 is ridiculous.



Like I said, it's subjective, but I agree with the sentiment of the_ majority _that Gen 1 is one of the worst: almost as linear as Gen 6, with far less pokémon variety, crappy combat (pretty much no Dragons, Psychic > all), trash legendaries (Zapdos is at least OK)... in summary, it thrives on nostalgia and good pokemon art design, but it's overhyped as Fck. But Gen 6 is even worse.

You may be entitled to your opinion, but as for me and most of the world, we have quite a different one.
Either way, what matters is that we have fun.

Back on the main topic, although their excuse is valid, the execution is severely lacking. With the time they had and the """"future-proof"""" models from the previous games, they should have all pokes in OR top notch graphics on what didn't get cut, game textures and draw range included.

*We got NEITHER.*

And that's what pisses me off about this announcement.


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## CTR640 (Jun 16, 2019)

The biggest bullshit every in the existence of Pokémon. The ones who designed this idea suffers from brain damage.
Gotta catch _some_ of 'em.


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## MalikTH (Jun 16, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm sure it will. If people can program all 850+ pokemon into a game, have them all use dynamax, have them all perfectly balanced and all within the constraints of Switch hardware, please, by all means let me know.


I'm sure they can. After all, the Pokemon franchise has literally gained billions of dollars in profits over the past decade or so. I can't possibly see how they wouldn't be able to do this.


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## Conan-kun (Jun 16, 2019)

Yea, I would be pissed if I was big into pokemon still. I know it's upset my younger brother and sister, I guess we'll see what comes of all of this. :/


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## Lumian (Jun 16, 2019)

...Meanwhile, I am COMPLETELY okay with this turn of events. Having played every single Pokemon since Pokemon Red/Blue/Green I have already played the absolute crap out of every pokemon in existence. If scaling down the number of monsters makes the combat more fair, balanced, and fun and gives them more time to add more interesting features I welcome the experiment.


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## Kigiru (Jun 16, 2019)

Meh, i see from where people come being frustrated over it but personaly i'm not so moved. I mean, sure as fuck Nintendo failed with "futureproof" models and promises of next game after LGPE being directed to older fans but personaly i will not be affected by it at all because i'm not interested in online play... but even for online players, removing lesser valuable stuff like freaking Unown or Ledyba and some broken shit like most mythics is win situation lol. Ironicaly online play with smaller pool of Pokemon, but without all these broken staples can have way more variety.


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## SapphireExile (Jun 16, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> Is it really insane to expect them to put in the works for a franchise that generated over 90 billion dollars in it's time?
> 
> Not that this one will sell very well, it's going to lose a huge chunk of it's core buying base (nostalgia nerds and online players) This move will cost them so much more than paying a dozen animators for a few months ever could.



Yes. For one, not all animations are compatible with all engines. The animations from Sapphire and Ruby have 0 chance of working in X/Y for example. Different motion, different roots, different rigs, etc. 

Next, animations are not easy. Especially blended animations, which are virtually required in 3D games. At best, I can crank out 15 unique, high quality animations a day. Nintendo animators can most likely do more, but not a minimum of 1800 animations (900 Pokemon, idle and attack animations) in any short period of time. You also need to account for file size. Do you really want to download a 100gb+ Pokemon game? 

You also have the issues of model vs animation time. You can't really create high quality animations without the model being fleshed out first. So now the animation team is waiting for the modeling team, and the texture team is waiting on the modeling team as well. 

It's not as simple as "It worked in the past, just reuse it", it's "I need to retarget and remaster every model and rig, then I need to test the animation in engine, then I need to see what can go wrong with the animation (What if I take damage on the same frame an attack animation fires?). 

Even if they could reuse previous animations and models, you're back at file size. Almost immediately you would bypass the cartridge, and for digital download, you're fucked.


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## AlexMCS (Jun 16, 2019)

SapphireExile said:


> Yes. For one, not all animations are compatible with all engines. The animations from Sapphire and Ruby have 0 chance of working in X/Y for example. Different motion, different roots, different rigs, etc.
> 
> Next, animations are not easy. Especially blended animations, which are virtually required in 3D games. At best, I can crank out 15 unique, high quality animations a day. Nintendo animators can most likely do more, but not a minimum of 1800 animations (900 Pokemon, idle and attack animations) in any short period of time. You also need to account for file size. Do you really want to download a 100gb+ Pokemon game?
> 
> ...



How much data does an animation take? Aren't the models themselves the largest part of the data chunk?
Really curious here, since my only reference is Guilty Gear Xrd, that has an entire 3h animated movie inside, other than the in-game animations, and it isn't even 12GB large on my HDD. I really doubt this game would even exceed 40GB, not to mention 100GB.

Also, you're assuming it's a completely different new engine, but I don't really think it is.


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## SapphireExile (Jun 16, 2019)

AlexMCS said:


> How much data does an animation take? Aren't the models themselves the largest part of the data chunk?
> Really curious here, since my only reference is Guilty Gear Xrd, that has an entire 3h animated movie inside, other than the in-game animations, and it isn't even 12GB large on my HDD. I really doubt this game would even exceed 40GB, not to mention 100GB.
> 
> Also, you're assuming it's a completely different new engine, but I don't really think it is.



Each animation by itself is relatively small. I average 7mb a piece on mine. 

I haven't personally played guilty gear, but if it's a movie, meaning prerendere, that can take as little as 300mb. Videos are much easier to compress and store. 

For asset file size, it really depends. I have singular textures that are 85mb in size alone, but I also have textures that are mere kilobytes. 

My personal models, optimized, come in around 4mb a piece, with the more complex things at 15mb. Mind you this is desktop game development, so switch/ mobile will most likely be smaller. 

I can't link the source, as I don't remember it, but last I seen was that S&S come in around 22gb. 

Audio takes up a large chunk by itself, then usually textures. Models come after, then the actual code base. 

So if my source was correct, and that 22gb is just the base game + S&S Pokemon alone, then to maintain quality, the addition of other Pokemon would raise that linearly. 

My source could easily be wrong, so take that with a grain of salt. 

Once the games are actually out, I'll extract the data from it, and see exactly the size of everything, and let you know just how large the game would be if every Pokemon was included.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 16, 2019)

SapphireExile said:


> Yes. For one, not all animations are compatible with all engines. The animations from Sapphire and Ruby have 0 chance of working in X/Y for example. Different motion, different roots, different rigs, etc.
> 
> Next, animations are not easy. Especially blended animations, which are virtually required in 3D games. At best, I can crank out 15 unique, high quality animations a day. Nintendo animators can most likely do more, but not a minimum of 1800 animations (900 Pokemon, idle and attack animations) in any short period of time. You also need to account for file size. Do you really want to download a 100gb+ Pokemon game?
> 
> ...



but the models were literally the same. except for i think a cat pokemon that had it's ears fixed between two games and a couple of slight color corrections.
the engines also didn't change significantly, they kept on tweeking the one from x/y and I'd be very much surprised if sword or shield was any different.


100gb? are you're thinking of exported rendered movies or what?
like, you get they're not playing movies for those animations, right? what's saved to the cart is instructions on how to move the rigs of the models. infinitely smaller than an animation like a gif or whatever.

models and textures are already done. from what I remember, on the 3ds, they averaged ~300-400kb per pokemon. even if they upressed the textures and quadrupled the size and shinies and gender differences where completely separate models, we'd still only talk like 5-6gb for that data.

And that's a huge if. The models have been done for years. they were made from x/y on specifically to be used and reused later on a system with much better graphical capabilities. that's why we had 8!! games where the battles kept dropping frames and where doubles looked really terrible. granted, textures were likely worked on a bit for the new games, but from what we've seen, they mostly added non-dynamic shading and some bright highlighting.


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## Darth Meteos (Jun 16, 2019)

SapphireExile said:


> *snip*



I defer to ya boi Wonder Bread on Reddit, who explains the reason why this isn't the case.


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## Kigiru (Jun 16, 2019)

@SapphireExile - I think that you don't get it so lets make it short.
- There's a huge difference between Sprites and models so please don't mix them up like that.
- The models in 3DS games were ABSOLUTELY PURPOSEFULY made in way too high quality for that hardware, mostly to make them "futureproof" i.e. useable in later games on more powerful hardware.
- Most 3D graphic enviroments these days are pretty similiar and porting models from one to another is just matter of converting, copy-pasting and checking if everything runs fine, which makes it realy trivial job. Also Gamefreak has access to Pokemon data in raw, uncompressed state so it's not that they need to write it all again - They just need to take into consideration new tables for moves, abilities and shits and upgrade all with new stuff.
- They said outright that they were working on this project from when USUM was deep into advertisement campaign, which means that they had A FREAKING LOT of time to do it all. And with TWO full group of developers and multiple workers out of these group AND pretty much billions of dollars they have A FREAKING LOT of manpower and resources. And it's not that lack of all Pokemon is their biggest problem - Demo presented on E3 was in horrible state with multiple cases of lack of polish and poorly made graphics... and no "But it was demo!" is not an answer because this is the state that they wanted to show us the game, it's what they consider worth of showing us these times which is plain wrong.

Basicaly i'm questioning who actualy is working on Sw/Sh because neither the original team led by Masuda nor SM/USUM team led by Ohmori seems to be that incompetent. It's like they grabbed random programists from the street lel.


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## gundamu (Jun 17, 2019)

Lumian said:


> ...Meanwhile, I am COMPLETELY okay with this turn of events. Having played every single Pokemon since Pokemon Red/Blue/Green I have already played the absolute crap out of every pokemon in existence. If scaling down the number of monsters makes the combat more fair, balanced, and fun and gives them more time to add more interesting features I welcome the experiment.



it will not make any balance any better lmao you'll be foolish to think so and i also highly doubt you used all the pokemon in competitive battles
let's have a look at a balance scenario
if pokemon A is overpowered and the strongest, followed by pokemon B and pokemon C

removing A would not suddenly make the game balanced, since now B/C would dominate the meta
its like a hydra you cut of one head, another one pops


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## Pluupy (Jun 17, 2019)

Why didn't they just do what they did with Pokemon Black and White with the forest things? This is a step backwards.


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## gundamu (Jun 17, 2019)

Pluupy said:


> Why didn't they just do what they did with Pokemon Black and White with the forest things? This is a step backwards.



cuz they are ignorant retards


if they were smart they would have outsourced a company to make 3d model of all pokemon from gen 1-7 in 2016(the year work on sword/shield supposedly began) for HD and 4k resolution

they also have enough money to do this

this would have easily future-proofed the mons for 10-15yrs and saved them tons of time/money/work. but noo gotta do what cucks do
classic loserfreak


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## DuoForce (Jun 17, 2019)

GameFreak should stop making Pokémon games entirely and just give the rights to another studio like monolith soft. This is just too stupid. Fuck Masuda for ruining Pokémon

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DbGt said:


> Why you need 800+ pokemon to appear in the game??? I bet most people probably use 10 pokemon max



On top of being a shill you are also ignorant

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frexxos said:


> I am the only one who really is annoyed about having all Pokémon in the games?
> For me it is the best when you start a new game to only catch all of em in the new world. Different game, different Pokémon. I don't care at all....


Then don’t transfer your Pokémon. Problem solved.


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## Lumian (Jun 17, 2019)

@gundamu ...I never even said I played competitive battling, but I have - good guess, I guess? - and while what you said about nothing ever being perfectly balanced is TRUE... the fact is, when you reduce the sample size, it does in fact make it easier to try and balance the sample just by virtue of the limitations of the human mind and also time constraints. Don't even try to argue it doesn't, math, science, and common sense are against you.


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## Dartz150 (Jun 17, 2019)

For those still defending this stupid decision:


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## LightBeam (Jun 17, 2019)

The Pokemon games became worse and worse since X and Y (sadly), Black & White 2 were the last good Pokemon games imho but also the best ever released, with a huge amount of content that Gamefreak never wanted to match since


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## codezer0 (Jun 17, 2019)

Personally i grew to despise the ds era of pokemon games. The amount of lag they had over the gba entries was inexcusable to me, in addition to all the bullshit mechanics; and looking back, that game freak refused to embrace Wi-Fi distribution at all even with the tech for it, so nobody could legally complete the 'dex, ever.

That's not even getting into the frustration of how busted the gts system was, and how nintendo decided that, rather than fix the problem, to just close the network and ban everyone.


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## AlexFili (Jun 17, 2019)

That's bullshit, hopefully they fix it in a patch.


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## mightymuffy (Jun 17, 2019)

A poll on the topic would be interesting to see, rather than scrolling through this thread reading the remainers piss and moan at the Pokedexiters, and vice versa to almost the same extent...... hmmm.... deja vu.....

Anyway, opinion definitely seems split (and almost a matter of life and death to some, judging by some of these posts!)


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## codezer0 (Jun 17, 2019)

On the youtube video where nintendo showed off the footage of sword and shield, i had made a comment that got pretty high amount of likes. At the time, i had no idea of the limitations, so it went simply...

 "Incineroar + Dynamax + Malicious Moonsault == Chaos Dunk from Shut up and Jam Gaiden confirmed"

Now knowing that not only are they not importing the whole roster, but also axing off mega evolutions *and* Z Moves? That's a horrendous kick to the dick for me.

It honestly makes let's go eevee feel more like a complete game than the haphazard mess that Tajiri and Masuda are shaping sword and shield up to be. And that's saying a lot.


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## Xabring (Jun 18, 2019)

I, as a fellow developer, Understand the  temptation need to recycle animations.......that said.....Game Freak Has done better.


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## Deleted User (Jun 18, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> Personally i grew to despise the ds era of pokemon games. The amount of lag they had over the gba entries was inexcusable to me, in addition to all the bullshit mechanics; and looking back, that game freak refused to embrace Wi-Fi distribution at all even with the tech for it, so nobody could legally complete the 'dex, ever.
> 
> That's not even getting into the frustration of how busted the gts system was, and how nintendo decided that, rather than fix the problem, to just close the network and ban everyone.


uh... what lag? If we are going to talk about lag. Look at the 3ds x and y and after words. The game chugs at times in battles, dropping to 9fps at worst. So I'm extremely confused to what lag your talking. I've played the ds series. Black and white stand out to me as they felt extremely fast. And x y slowed down the combat. And I've done local battles and they are pretty swift. So I'm really confused.



codezer0 said:


> That's not even getting into the frustration of how busted the gts system was, and how nintendo decided that, rather than fix the problem, to just close the network and ban everyone.


you just added that. So let me respond to that. THEY DIDN'T JUST BAN EVERYONE AND CLOSE THE NETWORK.
The servers were on gamespy, and so when gamespy closed, they had to close. And the gts system worked. So I'm really confused on wtf you are talking about. What part of it was busted? And no You could obtain every single pokemon through generations. Each game had a machanic to transfer over, and the same applies to the ds line up. Owning a copy of heart gold or soul silver there is a specifc area in the game that can transfer over gen 3 pokemon directly to gen 4. Using the gba port on the ds. And in black, white. It had the transfer mechanic later on. Once you beat the game you unlocked the transporter. Which you use two ds's and follow instructions to get gen 4 to gen 5. AND gen 6 had a means to get gen 5 pokemon, which was poke transporter.
SO what do you mean you can't obtain everyone legitimately.
Also what bullshit mechanics? Are you talking 3ds or are you bashing on the ds? Because if your bashing on the ds I have no goddamn idea what your talking about.


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## codezer0 (Jun 19, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> uh... what lag? If we are going to talk about lag. Look at the 3ds x and y and after words. The game chugs at times in battles, dropping to 9fps at worst. So I'm extremely confused to what lag your talking. I've played the ds series. Black and white stand out to me as they felt extremely fast. And x y slowed down the combat. And I've done local battles and they are pretty swift. So I'm really confused.
> 
> 
> you just added that. So let me respond to that. THEY DIDN'T JUST BAN EVERYONE AND CLOSE THE NETWORK.
> ...


Lag between button response and action. lag with EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. random battles in the DS games took longer than ANY generation before, or since. And the GBA games were as fast at processing inputs as you could mash the button. With the DS games, especially diamond, I could count to four before it would acknowledge a response from my button presses. It was like extra, unnecessary seconds ticking away. And it was never fixed in any of the DS games until (mostly) Gen 6 arrived, and then Gen 7 finally got it close enough to the speed of Gen 3 to be tolerable.

The GTS system was busted. Stop defending it.
At first, you couldn't even _see or search_ for pokemon you saw, let alone those for entries you were missing. That in itself greatly reduced how useful it was able to be until Gen 6 remedied that, finally. So using it as a mechanic to try and fill out your 'dex was impossible.
Second, *all** the IMPOSSIBLE TRADES that flooded the thing*. Come on! "level 9 or under legendary, pls" and you'd get it ALL THE TIME. Were I a less scrupulous person, after finding out _why_ people were doing that (a safeguard to allow them to clone critters without an Action Replay), a big part of me wanted to just save edit some critters to flood those trades with and give them something that qualifies with deliberately 0 IV's across the board as a big "Fuck you" to all those deranged little assholes.

Pokemon that showed up only once a week (Drifloon).
Having to have specific party members, renaming critters forcefully and specific party order (OrAs for the regi's).
Having to find a specific spot with natural weather to favor an evolution (Goodra).
Having to flip the damn system upside down while levelling, so basically forced to battle with the system upside down to actually get it to trigger (that damned jellyfish).

As it is, I have no mechanic to get my legit darkrai out of my original Diamond and into a current gen game. Not any that I'm aware of, and certainly not any that wouldn't require buying successive games I've grown to resent along the way.


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## Deleted User (Jun 19, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> Lag between button response and action. lag with EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. random battles in the DS games took longer than ANY generation before, or since. And the GBA games were as fast at processing inputs as you could mash the button. With the DS games, especially diamond, I could count to four before it would acknowledge a response from my button presses. It was like extra, unnecessary seconds ticking away. And it was never fixed in any of the DS games until (mostly) Gen 6 arrived, and then Gen 7 finally got it close enough to the speed of Gen 3 to be tolerable.
> 
> The GTS system was busted. Stop defending it.
> At first, you couldn't even _see or search_ for pokemon you saw, let alone those for entries you were missing. That in itself greatly reduced how useful it was able to be until Gen 6 remedied that, finally. So using it as a mechanic to try and fill out your 'dex was impossible.
> ...


Your mixing generations of games and handhelds. Your last 4 criticisms are for the 3ds. (which I can agree)
As for your Darkri complaint, it's rendered invalid. Why? Because people have managed to make a custom server that uses the original event data. So... No still catch able through legitimate means.
And now let's talk about this "lag" your talking about. Is the game dropping frames, or is it text that is displaying first. IF IT'S TEXT displaying first and it's not the game dropping in frame rate, then your argument is invalid. Strictly talking the DS, it did text first and ignored input when text was still writing which is not lag for gen 5. For gen 4 there was a end delay of about 0.2 seconds per action. Which I will agree slowed down the pace. But was fixed mostly in gen5. Now talking 3ds, if the game is visibly slowing down in framerate (which the 3ds does) then yes, that is lag and that is a problem.
Now back to gemmics, which were ONLY INTRODUCED IN THE 3DS. The ds lacked any motion sensors. The only gemmic that I knew for the series on the ds was the need to trade specifically keroblast and shellment for their evolution and evee two evolution which were based on time. Now let's talk the GTS system. You called it busted without explain why. Now that you have. I can explain why it's not busted, but it's flawed. It did what it was meant to do. People ask for a Pokemon and they send a Pokemon someone else wanted. This on it's own on paper is fine, but gamefreak never did stop "those" kind of requests from happening. . Yes those requests happen, but people did also provide legitimate good trades as well. So no, it's not busted. Flawed? absolutely. However because I had a close group of friends, I was able get all of them with coordination.
Edit: as a side note gen5 also added gts trade negations, which got around of the gts issue. Such as not seeing a pokemon first and unable to get it because of that.


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## NancyDS (Jun 19, 2019)

Well, these are my Pokémon, I have 44 Pokémon and 4 megaevolutions so far (excluding Arcanine, Magnemite and Steelix not to put 47 Pokémon, and also Steelix-Mega not to put 5 megaevolutions).

But I'm worried about Pokémon Sword and Shield that does not have a National Pokédex, that sucks, because my Pokémon friends are separated from me for those games.

I hope that after the release Pokémon Sword and Shield, release an update of the game that includes the National Pokédex and all the missing Pokémon as my Pokémon friends that you are seeing in the image, among others.

Please, Nintendo I am frustrated by that, do not recycle the HD models of Pokémon GO for those missing Pokémon, when there are barely 500 Pokémon in Pokémon GO, well, Nintendo, create your own HD models from scratch to above for these missing Pokémon for Pokémon Sword and Shield.


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## codezer0 (Jun 19, 2019)

I'm talking processing lag. How long it takes to navigate and enter commands to how long it takes the game to respond. Also, how long it takes before it'll initially start letting me enter commands.

Gba series was as fast as i could enter it. If anything, I've demonstrated repeatedly how the gba game with animations ON was faster than gen 4 with animations OFF. In trying to implement touch controls, it completely screwed over button inputs; it didn't get satisfactorily fixed until gen 6. 

But gen 6 also had where the framerates were cut in half when the 3d function was enabled. But rather than actually fix it, or ask sakurai for help, game freak just disabled 3d support for everything after x/y, which is a load of garbage. If Smash on 3ds is able to run better models faster with 3d enabled, game freak has zero excuses.
I don't care about fanmade servers, because that doesn't help my situation at all. If you don't have a method that shows me how to get them off my official diamond game onto a current (say, 3ds) gale, nothing you say about it matters.

In gen 2, you couldn't even proceed in the plot until you did the bug hunting game, but that was only open to you two days a week, which also didn't help me since of course i was busy then. Then again, that generation ticked me off so much that, i was actualy relieved when my first gba sp was stolen with it in the cart slot. Nothing else of value (to me) was lost.

Gts was busted to shit. Trying to defend it invalidates your opinion. Having friends shouldn't be a requirement to actually progress and finish the dex. And back then, game freak refused to do Wi-Fi distribution for any of the ds era games, so all the mystery events only happened in some remote store that was an 8+ hour road trip away in the next state over. Yeah, like that was ever going to happen. And with diamond, black and black 2, it won't let you search for anything you didn't already have on hand. Even with the national dex unlocked. The gts only got somewhat useful as of gen 6 when you could actually start searching for pokemon you haven't already caught in your game. But even then, it was flooded with impossible requests that one couldn't complete. That was such a killjoy for me.


monkeyman4412 said:


> Your mixing generations of games and handhelds. Your last 4 criticisms are for the 3ds. (which I can agree)
> As for your Darkri complaint, it's rendered invalid. Why? Because people have managed to make a custom server that uses the original event data. So... No still catch able through legitimate means.
> And now let's talk about this "lag" your talking about. Is the game dropping frames, or is it text that is displaying first. IF IT'S TEXT displaying first and it's not the game dropping in frame rate, then your argument is invalid. Strictly talking the DS, it did text first and ignored input when text was still writing which is not lag for gen 5. For gen 4 there was a end delay of about 0.2 seconds per action. Which I will agree slowed down the pace. But was fixed mostly in gen5. Now talking 3ds, if the game is visibly slowing down in framerate (which the 3ds does) then yes, that is lag and that is a problem.
> Now back to gemmics, which were ONLY INTRODUCED IN THE 3DS. The ds lacked any motion sensors. The only gemmic that I knew for the series on the ds was the need to trade specifically keroblast and shellment for their evolution and evee two evolution which were based on time. Now let's talk the GTS system. You called it busted without explain why. Now that you have. I can explain why it's not busted, but it's flawed. It did what it was meant to do. People ask for a Pokemon and they send a Pokemon someone else wanted. This on it's own on paper is fine, but gamefreak never did stop "those" kind of requests from happening. . Yes those requests happen, but people did also provide legitimate good trades as well. So no, it's not busted. Flawed? absolutely. However because I had a close group of friends, I was able get all of them with coordination.
> Edit: as a side note gen5 also added gts trade negations, which got around of the gts issue. Such as not seeing a pokemon first and unable to get it because of that.


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## MalikTH (Jun 19, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> I'm talking processing lag. How long it takes to navigate and enter commands to how long it takes the game to respond. Also, how long it takes before it'll initially start letting me enter commands.


You must have been playing Diamond or Pearl. Platinum and HGSS, and for sure Black/White and Black/White 2, fix many of the issues with processing lag. But yes, overall, the GBA games were much faster in terms of processing.



codezer0 said:


> But gen 6 also had where the framerates were cut in half when the 3d function was enabled. But rather than actually fix it, or ask sakurai for help, game freak just disabled 3d support for everything after x/y, which is a load of garbage. If Smash on 3ds is able to run better models faster with 3d enabled, game freak has zero excuses.


I barely find myself using 3D anyway, so much so that I migrated from an old 3DSXL to a new 2DSXL, and considered it an upgrade. Also, as previously discussed, the models in the 3DS games were intentionally made such that they'd work in future games on more powerful consoles. That's why there are framerate drops at different times.



codezer0 said:


> I don't care about fanmade servers, because that doesn't help my situation at all. If you don't have a method that shows me how to get them off my official diamond game onto a current (say, 3ds) gale, nothing you say about it matters.


I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you talking about transferring Pokemon to future generations? Because that doesn't need an internet connection at all until transferring to Gen 6. Pal Park, Poke Transfer, and Pokemon Transporter/Bank.



codezer0 said:


> In gen 2, you couldn't even proceed in the plot until you did the bug hunting game, but that was only open to you two days a week, which also didn't help me since of course i was busy then. Then again, that generation ticked me off so much that, i was actualy relieved when my first gba sp was stolen with it in the cart slot. Nothing else of value (to me) was lost.


I didn't even touch the bug catching contest until postgame. It's not required.


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## pedro702 (Jun 19, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> I'm talking
> In gen 2, you couldn't even proceed in the plot until you did the bug hunting game, but that was only open to you two days a week, which also didn't help me since of course i was busy then. Then again, that generation ticked me off so much that, i was actualy relieved when my first gba sp was stolen with it in the cart slot. Nothing else of value (to me) was lost.


there is absolutely no requirement  to do the bug catching contesnt at all lol, you gain nothing from it there is  nothing forcing you to do it at all, you must be making stuff up, you only need the water thing to hit sudowodo which has nothing to do with the bug catching contest.


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## MushGuy (Jun 22, 2019)




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## Xabring (Jun 22, 2019)

MushGuy said:


>



SO they wheren't lazy, just unfocused. That's troubling either way.


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## Lumstar (Jul 6, 2019)

A smaller roster makes it easier to improve the game's focus and balance.
But few people trust the developer to follow through with that.


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## pedro702 (Jul 6, 2019)

Lumstar said:


> A smaller roster makes it easier to improve the game's focus and balance.
> But few people trust the developer to follow through with that.


yeah right becuase the new pokemons wont be unbalanced, srs with fewer pokemons means people will use the same 10 or 20 on all teams heck i bet this game wont have even 200 pokemons which means taking out pre evos and such your roughtly choosing between like 70 fully evolved ones, and then they make most of them have sucky stats so you get a choice of 10 or so.


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