# Leftist Media Brags about Lying about Trump Tax Cuts



## SG854 (Apr 11, 2019)

So a guy in the far left media brags about how he mislead people on Trump tax cuts making it seem like people are paying more in taxes because their tax refunds are down. Which effective tax rate rather then refund is a better measure at how much you pay in taxes. Vox admitting they lied.





> Nobody likes to give themselves credit for this kind of messaging success, but progressive groups did a really good job of convincing people that Trump raised their taxes when the facts say a clear majority got a tax cut.
> 
> — Matthew Yglesias



https://www.dailywire.com/news/45794/medias-terrible-power-summed-one-statistic-michael-j-knowles


He mislead people not because he cares about what may or may not  benefit people, so that they have more money in their pockets to spend on things. Which may depend on different situations. He mislead people because he just hates Trump and wants people to hate him.




The media lying is getting out of hand now. From Trump Russia Conspiracy Theory, to saying people are paying more in taxes. It’s getting ridiculous.


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## Xzi (Apr 11, 2019)

...

A lower tax refund means you are paying more in taxes throughout the year that aren't being returned to you.  You're not fooling anybody by saying, "your tax refund went DOWN, your taxes didn't go UP!"  For all intents and purposes, it's the same thing.  Less money in your pocket, more of it going to the massive tax cuts for the corporate sector.

The average refund is down 17% now that Trump's tax reform is active.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/22/irs-tax-refunds-2019-1207283

Furthermore, twice as many companies are now paying zero in taxes:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/ta...aying-zero-taxes-under-trump-tax-plan-n993046


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## Hanafuda (Apr 11, 2019)

All I know is, for the last 5-6 years I’ve owed the IRS a modest amount each year. Less than a thousand, more than five hundred, every year. This year, no changes in my withholding, no changes in income, no changes in # of dependents, etc. And this year, I got a $165 return. I’ll take it.


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## Subtle Demise (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> ...
> 
> A lower tax refund means you are paying more in taxes throughout the year that aren't being returned to you.  You're not fooling anybody by saying, "your tax refund went DOWN, your taxes didn't go UP!"  For all intents and purposes, it's the same thing.  Less money in your pocket, more of it going to the massive tax cuts for the corporate sector.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're only looking at one side of the equation. If less is being withheld, that means less returned right? Although yes, corporate tax shelters should be outlawed.


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## SG854 (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> ...
> 
> A lower tax refund means you are paying more in taxes throughout the year that aren't being returned to you.  You're not fooling anybody by saying, "your tax refund went DOWN, your taxes didn't go UP!"  For all intents and purposes, it's the same thing.  Less money in your pocket, more of it going to the massive tax cuts for the corporate sector.
> 
> ...


I know a lot of people saying they benefited from tax cuts. 80% of Americans benefited.




Tax refunds isn’t a good measure in if you are paying more in taxes. Because a refund is your own money you overpaid in taxes. And they are just returning it to you. Effective tax rate is a better measure. If your withholdings are less because of lower taxes, then your refund will be less because they are withholding less money you paid for taxes.

https://taxfoundation.org/tax-refunds-tax-cuts/
*Don’t Judge Your Taxes by Your Refund*

But a tax refund is adjustable, you can adjust your withholdings a for a bigger refund or a bigger pay check.


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## cots (Apr 12, 2019)

Yeah, it's basically the same thing as the so-called "manufactured crisis at the border" the Liberals said people were making up. Two months later look at the headlines on their bigoted news sites - they now admit it's a crisis and something needs to be done, but blame Trump for not doing anything. I wonder who has been the ones holding back Trumps hand every time he tries to do something? Liberal logic, I just can't grasp it.


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## Fugelmir (Apr 12, 2019)

I would love my government to give corporate tax cuts outside green initiatives.  Give an incentive to keep our industry local.  Lucky Americans.


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## SG854 (Apr 12, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> All I know is, for the last 5-6 years I’ve owed the IRS a modest amount each year. Less than a thousand, more than five hundred, every year. This year, no changes in my withholding, no changes in income, no changes in # of dependents, etc. And this year, I got a $165 return. I’ll take it.


See you benefitted from the tax cuts.


So if you combine the about $1,000-500 you usually owed, plus the $165 return, that’s about $1,165 (just using 1,000 for example) you got extra from tax cuts. Makes no sense that your paying more if your effective tax rate went down even if your refund went down. Some people’s refund might go up like in your case.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...sing-under-the-new-tax-law-heres-how-to-tell/


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

cots said:


> Yeah, it's basically the same thing as the so-called "manufactured crisis at the border" the Liberals said people were making up. Two months later look at the headlines on their bigoted news sites - they now admit it's a crisis and something needs to be done, but blame Trump for not doing anything. I wonder who has been the ones holding back Trumps hand every time he tries to do something? Liberal logic, I just can't grasp it.


Are you hearing yourself?  "They said Trump was manufacturing a crisis...two months later, there's suddenly a crisis!"  That's what tends to happen when you tear-gas asylum seekers and threaten to do massive damage to the economy by closing the border.



SG854 said:


> I know a lot of people saying they benefited from tax cuts. 80% of Americans benefited.


This is literally propaganda, the "tax foundation" is a conservative think tank, not an independent news organization.  When you see a statistic that unbalanced it should be a red flag to check your sourcing.  How are 80% of Americans benefitting when the _average_ refund is down nearly 20%?


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## SG854 (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Are you hearing yourself?  "They said Trump was manufacturing a crisis...two months later, there's suddenly a crisis!"  That's what tends to happen when you tear-gas asylum seekers and threaten to do massive damage to the economy by closing the border.
> 
> 
> This is literally propaganda, the "tax foundation" is a conservative think tank, not an independent news organization.  When you see a statistic that unbalanced it should be a red flag to check your sourcing.  How are 80% of Americans benefitting when the _average_ refund is down nearly 20%?


I keep saying that a refund is not a good measure to see if your tax liability went down, it’s effective tax rate. I even linked an article from cbs news.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...sing-under-the-new-tax-law-heres-how-to-tell/

This guy who is a lefty and not a rich corporation benefited from the tax cuts. His effective tax rate went down 13%. The comments on the YouTube vid are hilarious.


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

SG854 said:


> I keep saying that a refund is not a good measure to see if your tax liability went down, it’s effective tax rate.


Again man, I don't know who you think you're fooling.  On average, Americans have less money in their pockets after this tax season compared to tax seasons prior.  It's as simple as that.  Just so we're clear: that doesn't mean _nobody's_ tax rate went down, and it doesn't mean _nobody_ managed to snag a larger refund, but your _average_ joe six-pack had 17% of their refund taken away to be given to some CEO instead.

I honestly don't know how anybody expected this to play out any different.  Trump didn't touch the middle-class/working class tax rate, but he slashed the corporate tax rate by 50%.  All that money given away as corporate welfare has to come from somewhere, thus the average refund decrease.


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## Fugelmir (Apr 12, 2019)

Single Filers Tax Rate

FEDERAL TAX BRACKETS *2018 – 2019 *
$0 – $9,525 10%
$9,526 – $38,700 12%
$38,701 – $82,500 22%
$82,501 – $157,500 24%
$157,501 – $200,000 32%
$200,001 – $500,000 35%
$500,001+ 37%

FEDERAL TAX BRACKETS *2014 – 2015*
10% $0 to $9,225 
15% $9,225 to $37,450 
25% $37,450 to $90,750 
28% $90,750 to $189,300 
33% $189,300 to $411,500 
35% $411,500 to $413,200
39.6% $413,200+ $464,850+

It's interesting to see the way the Trump administration is shifting around the tax burden.  He certainly does seem to be cutting personal income taxes down slightly for the middle class and large earners.  I can see why people are getting money back when they were charged a small fee before.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> ...
> 
> A lower tax refund means you are paying more in taxes throughout the year that aren't being returned to you.  You're not fooling anybody by saying, "your tax refund went DOWN, your taxes didn't go UP!"  For all intents and purposes, it's the same thing.  Less money in your pocket, more of it going to the massive tax cuts for the corporate sector.
> 
> ...


More to the math than "you're paying more" .. Exemptions, exceptions, credits. They've all changed...


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

Memoir said:


> More to the math than "you're paying more" .. Exemptions, exceptions, credits. They've all changed...


Precisely, it's all just an attempt to obfuscate things more for your average taxpayer in hopes they won't realize they're getting fleeced.  The numbers Fugelmir posted above aren't really the effective tax rates.  Not only is the average refund down, but fewer tax returns resulted in _any_ refund this year as well:



			
				USAToday said:
			
		

> The share of returns getting a refund is also slightly lower than a year ago. The IRS doesn't offer figures about what people owe.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...lls-burden-some-americans-budgets/2909854002/



			
				USAToday said:
			
		

> In some ways, Stephanie Harris is one of the luckier ones. The 53-year-old actuary in Pittsburgh is still getting a refund, but it’s about half of what it usually is. Even so, she is one of the five percent of filers that the Tax Policy Center estimated would end up paying more in federal taxes following the changes to the tax law.
> 
> “In the past five years, my effective tax rate has been as low as 6.13 percent and as a high as 8.43 percent,” she said. “This year, my effective tax rate was 9.38 percent, the highest it’s ever been.”


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Precisely, it's all just an attempt to obfuscate things more for your average taxpayer in hopes they won't realize they're getting fleeced.  The numbers Fugelmir posted above aren't really the effective tax rates.  Not only is the average refund down, but fewer tax returns resulted in _any_ refund this year as well:
> 
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...lls-burden-some-americans-budgets/2909854002/


Actually, had I not gotten married? I'd be paying the IRS for the first time...


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## Fugelmir (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Precisely, it's all just an attempt to obfuscate things more for your average taxpayer in hopes they won't realize they're getting fleeced.  The numbers Fugelmir posted above aren't really the effective tax rates.  Not only is the average refund down, but fewer tax returns resulted in _any_ refund this year as well:



But even if the average refund is down, it lurks to another problem. Namely, if the economy is prosperous, as key recent events seem to substantiate, people are earning more money and therefore being taxed more and receiving less of a refund.  

My company's headquartered in the US and I know our salaries are up across the board as a result.  I don't benefit much because of our carbon tax, but it's important to note.


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> But even if the average refund is down, it lurks to another problem. Namely, if the economy is prosperous, as key recent events seem to substantiate, people are earning more money and therefore being taxed more and receiving less of a refund.


Taxes don't automatically go up as a result of the economy doing well.  It's a result of the new tax code implementation.  I understand people are apprehensive to call out Republicans on a net tax increase for the average citizen, but that's exactly what happened here.  And we won't even see any benefit as a result, it's not like the money is going to pay off the national debt or something like that instead.


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## cots (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Are you hearing yourself?  "They said Trump was manufacturing a crisis...two months later, there's suddenly a crisis!"  That's what tends to happen when you tear-gas asylum seekers and threaten to do massive damage to the economy by closing the border.



The Liberal media stated that there was no crisis at the border and Trump was making the entire thing up. They didn't say he was creating an up-and-coming crisis, like you claim. They said he was lying and that there was no problem. Two months later;

“The U.S. Immigration System May Have Reached a Breaking Point,” a New York Times story read Wednesday, detailing the unprecedented problems at the border. “It was never like this before,” the article states. “The migrants come now in the middle of the night or in the bright light of day. Men and women arrive by the hundreds, caked with dirt, with teens and toddlers in tow.” The story claims that a “breaking point” has been reached in America’s immigration system, which is no longer able to cope with the unseen levels of illegal immigration.

It seems Congress changed their minds after listening to Chief Patrol Agent Rodolfo Karisch's testimony earlier this week. I mean, it's good that the Liberals are finally realizing that there is a problem with illegal border crossings, but they try to spin it like Trump caused the problem when it's been contributed to greatly by their policies (sanctuary cities, free *emergency* health care, food and housing for illegals) and their inaction. They need to take their heads out of their asses, stop blaming Trump for everything that happens and do something. They try to play it like the people who overstay their visas are a bigger problem, but fail to employ policies to kick people out who do overstay.

I say kick them all out. I don't care if they overstayed their Visas after coming over a bridge in a car, over the ocean in an airplane or crossed illegally in the Desert where there was no wall to stop them or slow them down (even NBC News admits that illegals are going further into the desert to cross the border where there is no wall or barriers and those things have made it harder for them to enter - hence them walking further to avoid them).

So you now ask a Liberal if there is a problem at the border and they answer is "yes" whereas two months ago there was no problem and it was all some liars fantasy. Maybe they are starting to realize that there are only a limited amount of food stamps to go around.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> See you benefitted from the tax cuts.
> 
> So if you combine the about $1,000-500 you usually owed, plus the $165 return, that’s about $1,165 (just using 1,000 for example) you got extra from tax cuts. Makes no sense that your paying more if your effective tax rate went down even if your refund went down. Some people’s refund might go up like in your case.



I'm no expert in tax law, but I received a bigger refund this year than last year. I'm not sure why, but I'm not complaining.


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## SG854 (Apr 12, 2019)

These are all the changes they made to the tax code.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-reform/


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

cots said:


> The Liberal media stated that there was no crisis at the border and Trump was making the entire thing up. They didn't say he was creating an up-and-coming crisis, like you claim. They said he was lying and that there was no problem.


Because there was no problem two months ago.  Now suddenly immigration services are overwhelmed because of changes in policy made by the Trump administration.  Not to mention blatant disregard for the law in the handling of asylum seekers.  It's the literal definition of a manufactured crisis.  When you threaten to stop taking asylum seekers and threaten to close the border, it makes people panic.  Not only illegal immigrants.


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## SG854 (Apr 12, 2019)

cots said:


> I'm no expert in tax law, but I received a bigger refund this year than last year. I'm not sure why, but I'm not complaining.


There you go.


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## yuyuyup (Apr 12, 2019)

SG854 said:


> I keep saying that a refund is not a good measure to see if your tax liability went down, it’s effective tax rate. I even linked an article from cbs news.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...sing-under-the-new-tax-law-heres-how-to-tell/
> 
> This guy who is a lefty and not a rich corporation benefited from the tax cuts. His effective tax rate went down 13%. The comments on the YouTube vid are hilarious.



He got a tax break because he owns a business, I don't think 80% of America is getting a "massive tax break" ROFLMAO


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

SG854 said:


> There you go.


Can you just stop pointing to anecdotal evidence as though it changes the reality at large?  I received a smaller refund this year than I did last, but I'm still not basing all my opinions on that one experience.  Think of it this way: what good is poll with only one respondent?


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## cots (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Because there was no problem two months ago.  Now suddenly immigration services are overwhelmed because of changes in policy made by the Trump administration.  Not to mention blatant disregard for the law in the handling of asylum seekers.  It's the literal definition of a manufactured crisis.  When you threaten to stop taking asylum seekers and threaten to close the border, it makes people panic.  Not only illegal immigrants.



Circumstances haven't changed much at the border in two months time. The influx of illegals is still around the same amount (which if you read the articles the Liberal media are now posting all basically cry foul due to the same reasons Trump was 2 months ago which are mainly the number of people crossing - as in "there are too many to handle"). Little things like very minute fragments of people raiding the existing fencing while attacking border against and getting tear gassed because of that isn't really an issue nor is the even smaller fraction of people that are dying (mainly due to existing diseases - what did all of the Liberals say when the autopsies of the two children that died that they blamed border patrol over came out that stated they died of diseases and exposure due to the parents negligence. Why didn't any of the Liberal media news sites cover the results and post outrage against the actual people responsible?).

It's just sad to see people that are so delusional that they can change their minds about the facts that were presented, but ask them if they were wrong and they can't admit to it when the facts are they were wrong and did change their minds because of being wrong. 

When I'm wrong I usually apologize and move on - not hold onto my bitterness and hatred and act blinding out of feeling and rage (as that isn't going to help the situation).

So the Liberals were wrong about there not being a crisis. They were wrong about the two separate children who died in custody. They nitpick on small things like isolated tear gas incidents. I guess it's good they now admit there is a crisis and there has always been one all along, but they need to realize that supporting illegal immigrants isn't the answer and that we don't live in some fantasy world.


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

cots said:


> So the Liberals were wrong about there not being a crisis.


No, no we weren't, and I still don't believe there's a crisis, beyond a crisis of leadership overseeing border policy.  Please source anything you're saying.


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## SG854 (Apr 12, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Can you just stop pointing to anecdotal evidence as though it changes the reality at large?  I received a smaller refund this year than I did last, but I'm still not basing all my opinions on that one experience.  Think of it this way: what good is poll with only one respondent?


Why would you want a bigger refund? That’s you over paying in taxes. But IRS says in 2019 people will get a bigger refund.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/financ...ws/irs-now-says-people-getting-170638232.html




What about the New York Times?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/upshot/lower-tax-refunds.html

Or USA Today?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/12/06/taxes-2018-you-owe-year-get-refund/2207406002/

Or Money.com?
http://money.com/money/5634982/smaller-tax-refunds-2019/


Are your going to ignore these articles that say most people are paying less in taxes?

Only a handful of states with high taxes people will owe more.

The tax reform also increased standard deductions and doubled child tax credit, to reduce taxable income. Which should be a plus for you no?

They did put a cap on SALT deductions but that really mostly affects people in high tax states with high incomes and property taxes. But you can skip itemizing and take the higher standard deduction instead. Which means 88% will owe less and 12% will owe more of the 70% that deducted salt in 2017.


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## Xzi (Apr 12, 2019)

SG854 said:


> Why would you want a bigger refund? That’s you over paying in taxes.


I paid roughly the same in taxes that I did the year prior, I just got less money back.



SG854 said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/upshot/lower-tax-refunds.html
> 
> Or USA Today?
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/12/06/taxes-2018-you-owe-year-get-refund/2207406002/
> ...


That's not what any of those articles say lol.  The first one is a garbage opinion piece on why you should be happy that your refund is lower, and the next two just help you determine whether you owe or get a refund.  Not to mention that two of three articles were written before we had statistics available on what this year's refunds looked like.

Edit: If you want precise numbers, just over ten million people saw their taxes go up as a result of Trump's changes.

https://thinkprogress.org/10-millio...x-increases-under-trump-tax-cut-aa97d7aee410/


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## Fugelmir (Apr 13, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I paid roughly the same in taxes that I did the year prior, I just got less money back.
> 
> 
> That's not what any of those articles say lol.  The first one is a garbage opinion piece on why you should be happy that your refund is lower, and the next two just help you determine whether you owe or get a refund.  Not to mention that two of three articles were written before we had statistics available on what this year's refunds looked like.
> ...



Earnings aren't static and as they change, people will shuffle around the tax bracket so 10 million people paying more taxes isn't that surprising, they'd still likely be paying less than in a previous administration.

I'm much more interested in seeing how the trade war will play out especially on Trump's 4% economic growth promise.


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## Xzi (Apr 13, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> Earnings aren't static and as they change, people will shuffle around the tax bracket so 10 million people paying more taxes isn't that surprising, they'd still likely be paying less than in a previous administration.


Lol, this a direct result of Trump's changes.  If he had done nothing, ten million people would have paid less in taxes.



Fugelmir said:


> I'm much more interested in seeing how the trade war will play out especially on Trump's 4% economic growth promise.


Trump lies easier than he breathes (especially after all those Big Macs).  There are several financial bubbles getting ready to burst, and I'd speculate that the US doesn't make it out of 2020 without another economic crash.  It doesn't help that Trump keeps imposing new tariffs, despite not knowing what the consequences of those are.  Democrats swept the 2018 elections pretty hard regardless, when mid-terms are rarely a strength for them.  It's clear that Trump isn't getting much leeway simply because the economy is steady _right now_.  Temporary economic stability doesn't stop him from being any less repulsive in a number of other ways.


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## Plstic (Apr 13, 2019)

threads like these are xzi bait lmao.


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## Xzi (Apr 13, 2019)

Plstic said:


> threads like these are xzi bait lmao.


Ideally, threads shouldn't have titles like this.  Not only is it bait-y, it's also ironically sensationalist.


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## Hanafuda (Apr 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Ideally, threads shouldn't have titles like this.  Not only is it bait-y, it's also ironically sensationalist.




Matt Yglesias DID brag about progressive groups spreading disinformation to mislead the public about the tax reform law that was passed. That's not sensationalist. It's demonstrable fact. And you've certainly been doing your part in this thread to further the effort.


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## Xzi (Apr 14, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Matt Yglesias


Who?  Some nobody on Twitter represents the entirety of "mainstream" media now?

I also don't know where he got his "facts" that the majority got a tax cut.  The facts say that taxes went up for a net 10 million Americans.


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## Hanafuda (Apr 14, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Who?  Some nobody on Twitter represents the entirety of "mainstream" media now?
> 
> I also don't know where he got his "facts" that the majority got a tax cut.  The facts say that taxes went up for a net 10 million Americans.




Yglesias is a former writer and editor for The Atlantic and ThinkProgress, and a co-founder of Vox.com

Not a nobody.


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## Xzi (Apr 14, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Yglesias is a former writer and editor for The Atlantic and ThinkProgress, and a co-founder of Vox.com
> 
> Not a nobody.


Yeah I Googled him after I posted, but I have no clue why he would make such a blatantly untrue statement about the majority getting a tax cut.  The IRS' own numbers contradict that.


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## Hanafuda (Apr 16, 2019)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html


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## Xzi (Apr 16, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html


Good quotes in there:



			
				NYT said:
			
		

> High earners did far better under the law. The top 20 percent of earners received more than 60 percent of the total tax savings, according to the Tax Policy Center; the top 1 percent received nearly 17 percent of the total benefit, and got an average tax cut of more than $30,000. And that’s not even factoring in the law’s huge cut to corporate taxes, which disproportionately benefit the wealthy households that own the most stock.


With obscenely wealthy individuals receiving 77% or more of the benefit from the tax cuts, it's not surprising that your _average_ taxpayer isn't seeing much, if any benefit.



			
				NYT said:
			
		

> The tax savings were relatively small for many families, however. The middle fifth of earners got about a $780 tax cut last year on average, according to the Tax Policy Center.
> 
> Most Americans would probably welcome a $780 windfall. But in contrast to 2001, when President George W. Bush’s Treasury Department mailed rebate checks to taxpayers, last year’s tax cuts showed up mostly in the form of lower withholding from workers’ paychecks. A few extra dollars in a biweekly paycheck proved easy to miss. Moreover, as taxpayers filed their returns, many found they were due smaller refunds than in the past, which may have further skewed perceptions of the law.
> 
> “Most people didn’t recognize the increase in take-home pay, or at least didn’t attribute it to the tax cut,” Mr. Rigney said. Some of them might realize it now that they’re filing their taxes, he said, but “it’s little consolation to discover that you received a couple thousand dollars during the year but you already spent it.”


$780 over the course of a year is barely anything to an individual, let alone an entire family.  And many of them saw their refund go down by equally as much.  It's clear the changes weren't written to give noticeable cuts to the middle and working classes, only to corporate fat cats instead.  And no tax cut is worth the ridiculous amount that is being added to the debt and deficit as a result.


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## SG854 (Apr 16, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html


Exactly what I said. Most Americans got a tax cut. The people mostly hit are people that itemize in high tax areas. But most Americans don't itemize, so most weren't negatively affected by it. And the cuts to itemizing, they can get a standard deduction instead that they doubled and child tax credit they doubled. 





There's also one thing I want to point out is the top 20% mentioned in the article. Using 2011 data, might've change a little bit now, but using 2011 to reach the top 20% you need a household income of $101,583. That's about $51,000 each for two working couples. Slightly over $50,000 is hardly rich. To reach the top 5% you need $186,000, which is $93,000 for each couple. You don't even need to be a millionaire to reach the top 1%.



These are nice incomes but hardly part of the ultra wealthy when you been working your whole life and saving up to reach that. Bernie Sanders just recently became a millionaire. In fact most Americans in the high income bracket are older people, and people in the low income brackets are mostly young adults and teenagers. Make sense no? There is great income mobility in the U.S., people hardly stay in the same bracket and move up and down all the time. Most people from the bottom move out of those brackets when they get older. Especially when they get more experience. If you own a house in San Fransisco and sell it you'll reach the top 1% for that year, but quickly move down when you buy a new house. 


There are more people that are heads of households that work in the top 20%, 20.5 million, compared to 7.5 million in the bottom 20%. The top 5% had more people working full time for 50 weeks or more then the bottom 20%, or 4.3 million compared to 2.2 million in absolute numbers. This shifts it to make it seem like a growing gap between the rich and poor. But more people reaching the higher income brackets working for more hours is the reason this is happening. These are the people your suppose to rail against when they complain about the top 1%. The "Rich" isn't an enduring class. 



Source Basic Economics Thomas Sowell.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Apr 16, 2019)

I don't care so much if a website is leaning to the left, right or w/e but when it comes to Vox, BuzzFeed, Salon, NewsOne, Good Men Project, etc. Whenever I face these websites it feels like I've reached the ugly side of the Surface Web.

So anyhow, this isn't the first nor the last Vox was caught lying about something but itsi become "normal" for them. People these days falsify evidence and then when they're caught, they double down instead of apologizing for being con artists.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Apr 16, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Matt Yglesias DID brag about progressive groups spreading disinformation to mislead the public about the tax reform law that was passed. That's not sensationalist. It's demonstrable fact. And you've certainly been doing your part in this thread to further the effort.


Matthew Yglesias?! Did his parents not know how to spell? It's Iglesias.

That reminded me of an actress named "Lindsy" rather than Lindsey.

/rant


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