# So americas politics are fixed by letting candidates drop out at specific spots?



## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-fivethirtyeight-2020-primary-model-works/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/
(select "a plurality of pledged candidates from the dropdown")







What kind of makes this apparent this time around is, that Biden got almost exclusively bad PR, before two of the more mainstream candidates dropped out, endorsing him, before arguably the biggest 'direction giving push' event of the primary elections.

Huh...

I'll watch this in following years with interest. 

Also Buttigieg has been hyped by establishment media after Iowa for this? 

Also notice, how much of the medias time is preoccupied with talking about Bloomberg vs. his projected chances of actually attaining a majority of candidates, in the weeks to come (percentage has recently fallen). 

edit: Oh, you also need this graph to understand what I am talking about:


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Proposal for non croney politics in the future, have them force drop out at specific spots depending on any metric really, as to not influence ongoing procedures. 

Or hold all the preelections on the same day.

Haha. As if.

As a non US citizen of course I am non partisan. 




edit: And here are just national poll averages on the same day:





src: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/national/

So you can see the impact of the electoral delegates system that produces outcomes like this:

(Delegate distribution in California (32% of votes counted), "Delegierte == Delegates":





== winner takes all)

Oldest democracy in the world..


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## FGFlann (Mar 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> As a non US citizen of course I am non partisan.


I've met so many Europeans with TDS it makes my head spin.

We all knew this was coming. They will try to keep Bernie out any way they can. He may be the biggest threat to Trump but he's also the biggest threat to their perceived establishment. To them it's better to put forward a man on the cusp of dementia than have the party fall in behind Bernie, because they might learn to like him or something equally horrific.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

I'll still have to do a demographic average of Iowa vs. the Super tuesday states.  (Because that also could be a major factor.  ) give me 30 minutes.. 

But in general - just reading what went into the projection, and then seeing that sort of spikes in opposing directions, while national poles still are 'roughly' the same.. Kind of a head scratcher, when the public discussion was largely unaltered, bar the the dropouts/endorsements.

edit:

"White man factor" should have moved the needle by 15%points max. 











So what happened between Iowa and now? 

Irrationality of 'who won previously' (and only won, not by how much) grew in the public perception, as a deciding factor for their own voting decision.  America had its discussion over what democratic socialism was? But that didn't impact national polls? Apart from that... THE two other moderate candidates resigned at the most opportune time for Biden. And the electoral delegate system HEAVILY favors the winner in a state (winner takes all), for the weighted average that matters in the end (delegate votes).

Great.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Mar 4, 2020)

I am pretty sure that if things go at the rate they are going, Trump will win re-election.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> I am pretty sure that if things go at the rate they are going, Trump will win re-election.


Too early to tell.


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## zfreeman (Mar 4, 2020)

https://electionbettingodds.com/


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

In case you didn't already know, old people love the Biden. 





src: https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/super-tuesday/



zfreeman said:


> https://electionbettingodds.com/


You get 6% interest for betting Trump wins the republican primaries?  Republicans really must not like him...  (Thats the chance, that they will produce ANY unknown candidate between now and election date, thats then 6% viable to win..  )


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## Deleted User (Mar 4, 2020)

Americas - The Continent
America - The Country

An apostrophe makes a huge difference.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 4, 2020)

*


			
				OP said:
			
		


So americas politics are fixed by letting candidates drop out at specific spots?

Click to expand...

*
While the timing is indeed a bit strange (why did Klobuchar and Buttigieg drop out just before this day?  ), I simply don't believe it. I mean: what's the bloody point? It ain't cheap to run for president, and the debates are...erm..."not too friendly". And for what I honestly think is a zero sum game: those rooting for either would've rooted for Biden anyway, just like Warren fans will get behind Sanders. That isn't because either do this "endorsing" thing, but because their political ideas mostly overlap (meaning: suppose Warren fully endorses Biden...then the votes would STILL go to Bernie).



FGFlann said:


> I've met so many Europeans with TDS it makes my spin.


If notimp's flag is correct, he's from Southeast Asia. But ey...Trump is so good at pissing off foreigners that "TDS" is actually a word (I had to look it up...it's "Trump Derangement Syndrome", right?  ).
Still: you shouldn't be surprised it comes up when you bring it up in a thread dealing _exclusively about democratic candidates _


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## FGFlann (Mar 4, 2020)

I said Europeans because they are the bulk of the non-US citizens I meet. I couldn't make a general statement about people from Laos. The larger point was that non-US citizens aren't exactly reliably non-partisan in US politics.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

I have thought about how to break this down into a one statement sentence.

If you ever want to know who decides on your presidential candidates, it should always be 'easily influenced, white, old guys/and gals'.

Unless you have an issue so divisive, that it could split that interest group cleanly in half. 

The issue with candidate dropouts is, that if you are a rich oligarch, you could basically sponsor the likes of Klobuchar and Buttigieg (likeable centrist candidates, that are likable for different reasons), and then pull their support right before the most important voting date for the primaries - have them endorse the only remaining viable centrist candidate - and therefore get three voter profile demographics at just the opportune moment.

Then you correlate this with the 'the winner takes all' nature of how the election delegates system works, and that the majority of voters will be influenced by these events and the preliminary electoral delegates count at this exact point - and you basically come out at 'primaries can be bought'. At least, when looking at these elections. (Have to look at more of them to see if thats a general trend. But those kinds of winner projections based on general trends and demographics are new, so historically - I cant (easily).)

All of that is easily prevented, by f.e. demanding that candidates drop out without endorsing other candidates, or have to stay in the race until the end (even without spending more money), or by holding the pre elections on the same date. But no one seemingly has interest in preventing those sorts of influencing effects.


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## Deleted User (Mar 4, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> I said Europeans because they are the bulk of the non-US citizens I meet. I couldn't make a general statement about people from Laos. The larger point was that non-US citizens aren't exactly reliably non-partisan in US politics.


The so-called "whites" in U.S. are Europeans.


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## FGFlann (Mar 4, 2020)

Boesy said:


> The so-called "whites" in U.S. are Europeans.


Let's not go wildly off-base here into weird racial territory. Americans are American, they ceased to be ethnically European a long time ago.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2020)

European Americans (see African Americans).


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## Deleted User (Mar 4, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> Let's not go wildly off-base here into weird racial territory. Americans are American, they ceased to be ethnically European a long time ago.


Not really. They are Europeans, just like Africans continue to be Africans and Asians as Asians. Calling people by 'white" or "black" is rather redundant.

I'm guessing you think these actresses aren't "white". Which makes the whole "white" as a race invalid, as it is, Europeans have different shades of skin color than just one.




Spoiler















If someone wanted to become a legal American, Brazilian, Mexican, Australian citizen then he/she could, but their race remains the same as it's in their ancestry.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> European Americans (see African Americans).


Exactly. Europeans immigrated to U.S., which makes them settlers (as they were).


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## FGFlann (Mar 4, 2020)

You are both fundamentally misunderstanding the problem. The question is not of their racial makeup but of their social, political and cultural makeup. What is culturally American is no longer "European", it is American and has been for a long time.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Here you can see what happened more clearly, because Reuters still has Klobuchar and Buttigieg numbers in there.





src: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e..._democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

So all Klobuchar and Buttigieg voters, and I mean all of them, moved over to Biden at exactly the most damaging time possible for the Sanders campaign. 

Fun.

Also difference in the popular poll average is 0.6% (poll on the site I linked in the thread before must still have not had current exit numbers?), which is still within statistical error.

But Biden now has 4% (points) more delegates, and the bump he needed. 

And look at those curves... wow. Exactly at the right time - and without any pro Biden publicity push that came from his own campaign. (If you find any of that stuff, please post (general media, not social pls.  ).)

edit: Actually, let me take that bak, I'd also be interested in the facebook ads for that timeframe.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Lets crawl facebooks ad transparency tool:

Biden campaign:
https://www.facebook.com/ads/librar...search_field=has_impressions_lifetime&q=Biden

*chirp chirp* *echo in the woods* *bush rolling through the image*

Nothing.

Must have been superpacks then..  (Or facebook sucking at surfacing political advertising..  )

Buttigieg:
https://www.facebook.com/ads/librar...ch_field=has_impressions_lifetime&q=Buttigieg

Nothing (one facebook posting on him endorsing Biden, switch to "active and inactive")

Klobuchar:
https://www.facebook.com/ads/librar...ch_field=has_impressions_lifetime&q=Klobuchar

Nothing at all.

Boy, facebooks campaign transparency tools suck.

13 Million people in the US apparently change their voting behavior in an erratic fashion, and facebooks ad monitoring doesnt seem to be able to catch it.

*shakes fist* "Zucktheberg!"
--

edit: Also interesting:

Popular vote numbers for both Buttigieg and Klobuchar kind of spiked, before they handed over their voters to Biden. (Thats called momentum.  )

Fun.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Oh, there is another problematic thing.

All candidates are fighting over a majority of electoral candidates - but they only get them, if they are above a 15% threshold in any state.

So even when Bloomberg or Warren will drop out, that will have an amplifying effect. With an emphasis on when.

And that two centrist candidates (around that 15% threshold) dropped out earlier on, has an amplifying effect on Biden - throughout the entire race. (Trying to obtain delegate votes.)

This is because those candidates that dropped out cant 'steal away' voters from the general pool. That wouldnt count in the end result.

So this is basically a game of monopoly, where mid game - at any point, any player can stand up, give all their monopoly money to any other player, and then get real money for that instead. If they give them to the right person.

As I understand it. 

edit: And where at any time, you can tip any candidate from the outside to not quit and split the voter base of another candidate, permanently.

And in the end you can vote "(often moderate) change" or "four more years".

Woo! Democracy!


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

So here are our two essential findings.

- Who becomes a presidential candidate is always (statistically very likely) decided by what "easily influenced, white, old people" want.

- The selection process is like a game of monopoly, where one player can start as three players, that pool funds and assets after the first fourth of the game (so two of the players can get real world benefits doing that). And where another player can be made to always only count as 0.8 of a player by splitting their potential income throughout the game.

But you give them - what - four public debates, so they can talk themselves out of that, by talking to voters, using their gift of the gab?

Huh. Interesting.

I wonder why other countries dont have that system. And isn't it lucky, that so many US americans dont understand statistics at all?

edit: To be fair, the winner of that process - then only becomes the presidential candidate in the first round, if they get about 40%-50% of the monopoly money. Which isnt votes but also a weighted measure called 'electoral delegates'.

Otherwise, there is a second round, you know. 

edit2: And the process requires, that you, as a candidate, have to convince the (usually gaussian distributed) monopoly board, convincingly, that you 'can still win' throughout an entire year. *haha*


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## Taleweaver (Mar 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Here you can see what happened more clearly, because Reuters still has Klobuchar and Buttigieg numbers in there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes and no. The "problem", so you will, is that the North Carolina vote was just a few days ago, and Biden didn't just win but steamrolled all over everyone except Sanders.No wonder they called it quits: not much point pursuing if someone with a similar agenda is stealing all your thunder.

Of course, since it was predicted that Biden would win NC, you can argue that that state's vote date was put so close to super Tuesday that a 'comeback' wasn't so much unavoidable but predicted.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Yes, but why is the issue.  Why steamrolled. 

I'm pretty sure its the game you are playing... 

To also tell it how it is - in other countries most often parties decide their candidates 'internally' (so without a public process like this). Saves money. But you then also have more parties - and none of that 'weighted advantage, WHEN certain people quit the race' nonsense.

Probably has a similar outcome though, all things considered.. 


If you find any other potential reasons for 'why steamrolled', please share. (As I posted before.  And I promise to be fair.) And I dont need it state specific. Just in general. Why was Biden all of a sudden such a winner.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2020)

I don´t get it, the African-Americans would benefit the most from Sander´s reduction of the military (unless you see the military as a great job opportunity) and increase in social wellfare. But one endorsement is enough to make them align almost perfectly?
It´s a very bad strategy. The Democrats don´t gain any vote against Trump (by choosing Biden) as almost all African-Americans vote for the Democratic candidate anyway. But if Bernie loses once again against the establishment in his own party, his fans might abstain from voting.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Lets do another exercise. Summarize this article.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/biden-super-tuesday/607411/

He won, because he won, and then he won more, and because he won early, and black, and the establishment? But he had been smiling for days.

Find something better (or explain whats in this article better) and you win. 

edit:

CNN tells you why in Texas:

CNN projects Joe Biden will win Texas primary. Here's how he did it


He won, because of the biggest counties.

Satisfied yet? 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Bloomberg just came out saying that he now endorses Biden. 

Remember that there is a weighted advantage for every above 15% candidate that does so early, for Biden, for the remainder of the race.

So Sanders is now stuck as the only candidate, not only not with no other candidates (that retracted) endorsement but the only candidate who still has a Warren fighting for his userbase as well.

*lololololololollololololololololol*

0.8 Sanders go! Convince your voters you can still beat 4 players Biden for no apparent reason. For another three months (I looked it up).
--

Hey, I know a joke.

A gay person, an old  pro industry democrat, and a strong women meet in a bar.
The bartender says: Which of you wants to become president.
They all look at each oder and then say as one voice: Joe Biden, the one that black people like.


edit: Here is the resolve. The political right has the answer. 
Saagar Enjeti: Biden can't even speak, can failed Dems save him anyway?


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## FGFlann (Mar 4, 2020)

I don't know, man. I don't even know what to say. If there was any justice in the world, Tulsi or Yang would be running against Trump right now.


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## notimp (Mar 4, 2020)

Someone didn't get the memo:


(Biden part of the monolog starts at 1:23 and is funny.  )


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## notimp (Mar 5, 2020)

The public reasoning has reached a conclusion, its because of "electability" not "policy" that all those endorsements were made:


Its great to see the presidential race finally resorting to just bullying.

Also Im sure Klobuchar thought about not being electable enough, just before dropping out at just the right moment to cause the most impact, shortly before quitting the race and not taking her projected 2:1 victory in her homestate, because she wasnt electable enough.

Currently - media really is just lying.

And society at large loves it. Because there is a winner to congregate around.


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## notimp (Mar 5, 2020)

Warren is out as well. 

No endorsement from her. Shocking (- not).

(FYI)


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## notimp (Mar 6, 2020)

Warren learned something.


(When a respected presidential candidate leaves the race, signaling a conspiracy (as in 'people conspiring'). Its a good day?

Thats when you need a comedian to play away that narrative with a joke.. Because otherwise, HOLY... )


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

Robert Reich does the teletubbies xplaining for people that cant read statistics:


Has an ex student of his next to him on camera, that screams at the viewer and plays dumb as a rock for youtube appeal.

(TLDR; What happend still doesnt become magically better.)

edit: Oh, also google who Robert Reich is.

edit2: Somehow Reich is still dumb enough to state on camera, that 'if there ever was a question if money could buy politics, this is now extinguished' because of Bloomberg.

Sorry folks, but that structural corruption (and even intelligent spending (prop up candidates with different mainstream appeal a little (dont spend 600 mio on yourself), then pool them at the right time for momentum)) beats one time campaign spending (with the lousiest political ads with creatives that were just free agenting the heck out of their paid temp jobs), is pretty well known. You have to spend money, for years, to profit from structural effects. If you compare Bloomberg with the big donors on both sides, that guy was a wannabe.

(Biden has received money from 60 billionaires. (Sanders campaign talking point.))

At least Reich also eludes to that at the end of his statement.


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

> Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday on "Meet The Press" that he would have won the primaries in Minnesota, Maine, and Massachusetts if Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg had not dropped out of the presidential race and endorsed former Vice President Joe Biden ahead of Super Tuesday.
> 
> "The establishment put a great deal of pressure on Pete Buttigieg, on Amy Klobuchar, who ran really aggressive campaigns. Well, I know both of them. They work really, really hard. But suddenly, right before Super Tuesday, they announced their withdrawal," Sanders said.
> 
> "If they had not withdrawn from the race before Super Tuesday, which is kind of a surprise to a lot of people, I suspect we would have won in Minnesota, we would have won in Maine, we would have won in Massachusetts. The turnout may have been a little bit different," he added.


src:


While that outcome in one of those states might be disputed - No sh*t sherlock.


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

NYT now openly lies in OPeds:


> The Trump presidency has created tremendous energy among progressives. More than half of Democratic voters now identify as liberal. Most favor “Medicare for all.” A growing number are unhappy with American capitalism.
> 
> This year’s campaign offered the prospect of transformational change, with a Democratic nominee who was more liberal than any in more than a half-century. Instead, the nominee now seems likely to be a moderate white grandfather who first ran for president more than 30 years ago and whose campaign promises a return to normalcy.
> 
> ...


(this is an opinion article, not _the_ news)
src: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/opinion/sanders-democratic-primary.html

This is how elites are manipulated:

You give them the truth:


> The race would have to change fundamentally for Sanders to win.


(You mean as fundamentally as the directional reversal in the opening post?)

But then you also tell them to think about their racist granpa (sorry, mccarthyist), and their own career. Next sentence:


> If he doesn’t, the obvious questions for progressives is what went wrong and how they can do better in the future. I think there are some clear answers — empirical answers that anybody, regardless of ideology, should be able to see. I’d encourage the next generation of progressive leaders to think about these issues with an open mind.



Fuck this 10 times out of 10. This is the actual reality. This is how democracy always goes. Go with the popular kid. And people in the know will make sure who is popular.

They just know better than you do - to believe in actual morals.

What you didn't know?

And on topics, where actual 'human nature' dictates different strategies (climate change), they f*cking virtue signal the s*t out of the opposite ideological position ("oh no - what everyone says that they will do because of tha climate matters so much...") just because it gives their constituency a reason to look good for no reason at all. Twisted world.

But so self replicating...

(And thats the reason why you do it. You openly play to everyones intrest to fake popularity in life to get ahead. You call this a society. Its manipulable as hell. Then you teach it to your "next generation of young progressive leaders". Then you only prop up those who swallow it. Voila, self replicating system.

Sanders isnt a blind ideologist either, you know? He just not quite the right one.. for now.

Get a little more educated, and keep any sorts of morals, and you quite quickly learn to hate this world.

Compromises, thats all politics is about. But frankly - I'd be much more interested in who sets them up, or advertises them, at what point in a democratic race.)

No, no - but we HAVE to manipulate you. You wouldnt vote for the winningest person otherwise. I think you would find that rational? (Its the greater good.)


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

Let me ask one question.

The preferend narrative now is, that at the same time, all centrist candidates could be convinced, that for their own position in a future administration, or their own political career, coordinately, they should drop out at the same time, and tell their followers to vote for the same person, and they all did it at the optimal time for that person in the race, with that person up to that point struggling the hardest of all candidates with any real potential, even to get back into the race in terms of their public performance, and since then not having shown any even decent public performance (for a political candidate) to begin with.

You really are fine with that, because thats the lesser evil? You manipulate the sh*t out of systems - and then tell your young ones "there should be some pretty obvious reasons for why the other candidates wouldnt have worked". Jinx?

What a fine veneer of humanity democracy gives to those public proceedings. No - no, its so very interesting to see network effect, and cascading voting behavior (its all about momentum) in those systems. (Thats actually what the youtube pandering proxy next to Robert Reich says into camera).

Believe her. Or else no career for you.

edit: No, no - let me also formualte a wish.

Because according to the the NYT oped you get ONE wish from your Plutocracy a year. And this year it is healthcare for all. ("...that want it") Dont you know?

And then the rest is just about how strong the political wings get internally, so they can demand certain, smaller monetary devotion, if they get numbers. Nothing too expensive.

Dear elite democratic santa, next year I want educational reform, please. Oh dang I forgot. I have to wait four more years before asking.


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

Cory Booker now also endorses Biden.
Kamilla Harris now also endorses Biden.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/us/politics/cory-booker-endorses-joe-biden.html

One day before Michigan.



You tell me. Does he believe what he is saying?

Cory Booker is now driven by faith, and beleves the Joe Biden is THE leader that... (I closed the youtube video right then and there).


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## FGFlann (Mar 9, 2020)

I am also endorsing Joe Biden.

Biden, Biden, he's our man, if he can't do it maybe the other Biden can.

Go Biden.


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

Your endosement doesnt have weight.

its about people that can move others to do whatever thing they want, by pandering to irrational group behavior. Remember? And how they are manipulated to move in a coordinated way to further their personal careers.

(I have no stakes in the race, I'm not american - I just tell you how broken that system is.)


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## FGFlann (Mar 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> Your endosement doesnt have weight.


How rude!


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

Here is Kamilla Harris' endorsement. (She actually endorsed him yesterday.)

starting at arround 6 min in


Do you believe Kamilla (as to why she is endorsing Biden now)?

edit:
Jesse Jackson endorsed Sanders btw.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/us/politics/jesse-jackson-bernie-sanders-michigan.html


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## Pacheko17 (Mar 9, 2020)

Trump will win, meh. Everything's fine.


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## Jayro (Mar 9, 2020)

Boesy said:


> The so-called "whites" in U.S. are Europeans.


The fuck we are... Former European descendants at best. We told King George he could eat a fat dick, and that we're doing our own thing.


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## notimp (Mar 9, 2020)

Pacheko17 said:


> Trump will win, meh. Everything's fine.


Not the question here. Also, how do you prop up that opinion?

Feeling?

Also, no - if your political system is just systemic corruption, leaders lying to people, and one upping each other on invented 'emotional reasons' why you should kiss your rationality goodbye and follow a leader - not everything is well, at least not if you still would want to hold claim to the democracy part.

Because you can herd votes if you have people exchange feels, but that doesnt have them engaging in the democratic process at all. (No one is looking for qualified opinions.)

I'm not at all interested, if anyone in here in the end buys a Playstation or an Xbox. If you excuse the horrible allegory.

And the Trump side of your 'political' process - currently is even worse, I mean do you really want me to immerse myself in the political standings of

Bill Weld,
Joe Walsh,
and
Roque de la Fuente?






(That bargraph btw is not to scale. You can blame google for it.)

If you are a president in office you come with a built in voter approval bonus. Republicans (GOP) basically glanced at a spreadsheet, looked at swingstates, decided, that thats enough and called it a day.

Then Trump went on a FOX townhall event and 'represented'.

Also, just out of interest - that guy with one electoral delegate is the swamp? Because the other two with 0 each cant be.

Wow, Trumps idea to deswamp the swamp, that you've been sold the last time around, must have worked really, really, really well... *sarcasm*


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 10, 2020)

Jayro said:


> The fuck we are... Former European descendants at best. We told King George he could eat a fat dick, and that we're doing our own thing.


European in the sense of the a continent, not a country (which does not even exist). You can´t become Ex-European. It´s not a matter of boyfriends or girlfriends.


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## Jayro (Mar 10, 2020)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> European in the sense of the a continent, not a country (which does not even exist). You can´t become Ex-European. It´s not a matter of boyfriends or girlfriends.


If you're European, ditch Europe, and come to America to found a new country, then congrats! You're an ex-European, and a new American!


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 10, 2020)

It is strange that neither you nor Asians regard me as Asian, no matter how long I live in China. You are European, deal with it.


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## notimp (Mar 10, 2020)

Here is what they get for selling you out:

Bidens inner circle reportedly has discussed cabinet appointments. original src: Axios on HBO



James (Jamie) Dimon should become treasury secretary.
Mike Bloomberg should become world bank president.
Susan Rice, or John Kerry should become secretary of state.

And the main questionable actor (traitor) in chief, Pete Buttigieg Ambassador to the United Nations, or US trade representative.

Again. If you sell out to the right person. You go up the carreer ladder not down.

Democracy, you know. Accumulate followers, fuck them over, get a nice job.

Thats systemic, btw. Thats wanted. Keeps everyone in check. You dont want idealists for positions you might want to have a say in later, you want people in there that have already shown they are willing to betray entire constituencies for personal gain. People that just use and abuse others to get what they want. Easier to control (because you can always bank on self interest with them). They dont get deciding positions of course, if they havent been at the right schools. (having the 'right' ideology matters far more, than many other things.)

So you laughed about Bloomberg, right? 

He spent 600mio to become world bank president. His net worth is about 60 billion. He has to make one good backroom deal, now leading the arguably most important organisation in the world, and he has recouped more than he has spent.

Ha, ha, ha. Hooops.

What was Robert Reichs excuse again? Bloomberg failing proved, that you cant buy political success? 

(If it comes to fruition. Currently its just a rumor.)


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## notimp (Mar 10, 2020)

Also Hillary (Clinton) documentary (series) just released on Hulu ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11558924/ ), where she reportedly slanders Sanders "for getting nothing done" as a senator, this is also about "being in the right ideological club" - which he is not.

But everyone else is.

So really - systemic bullying, for the sake of a political power elite (which also bleeds in into industrial and economic elites as well).

I'll see that I can watch it and extract some interesting bits from it as well.

To give you a hint on this as well -

Elite recruitment then is usually done in somewhat ideological, organized, play spaces (youth organizations, colleges, summer courses, ...), or from public movements that preferably go no where (climate - cant do anything without a consensus of politics, industry, insurance branch, finance...), but where people can then prove their 'usefullness' f.e. in rallying people, or networking in kind of an environment where it doesnt matter that much (*rebelrebel* if you are young). And then all they have to do is to sell out at the right time - and they become part of that ominous 'elite'.
All of those smaller systems are mainly about self reproduction and also a little bit about 'changing society' - because it does change over time (new cultural aspects are incorporated almost "through osmosis".  ).  Just dont expect it to be because of political ideals.

Elites in my experience usually dont know much about them (new developments, fields, trends) either (they bank on younger generations to just bring that with them, and if they dont - well, so what), so its not so much of a 'planing society' ideal (at least not on the micromanagement level), its really more of a club, that either you belong to, or you dont.

Thats how most (? imho) careers in that field go - if you are exceptional, there might be different paths, but most people in the political field are not. Thats also how you get most of your 'charismatic leadership figures'.

If you dont give into it, you should basically end up like Sanders. Shunned.

Democracy, you know.

edit: Current fields you could sell out in include: Create a digital currency (that could be used by institutions), boost digitization (in countries that are not the US), give people the believe that less is so much more (climate movement), leadership potential in any form - just never care about the people, pacification of the masses ("we have to teach them to get 1000 facebook followers each to be happy"), growing economic markets (online labour markets, microjobs), military defense, big data analytics, managing the populus (make concepts popular that people dont like).. Just to name a few, in no particular order.

For all the conventional jobs (finance, political planning, diplomacy, ...) you have to be in the right schools.

More than that? Well, whats your value add?

You don't plan on creating your own campaign, do you? After what you've seen here... Dont be silly.


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## notimp (Mar 10, 2020)

Oh, and one more very popular feature you should come with. Run after whatever you think is your way to success and dont stop. Never stop. Always push back after getting pushed down.

That way you get the believe that you are something special. And with that come certain perks.

@FGFlann Would you want to pitch in, why you'd endorse Biden?
I dont want to go after it, just so we have it in this thread as well (Actually give proper arguments).


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## FGFlann (Mar 10, 2020)

That was a joke. I don't believe Biden is fit for office. We voted for Tulsi Gabbard. But since she's basically out, my second choice is the orange man himself though I doubt my wife would agree with that one.


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## notimp (Mar 10, 2020)

Dang it.  Need someone to play counter part for this not to become as one sided as it already is. 

Hillary documentary is great (for learning concepts) btw. Watch it.


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## Viri (Mar 11, 2020)

Jayro said:


> The fuck we are... Former European descendants at best. We told King George he could eat a fat dick, and that we're doing our own thing.


Mine ran away from Ireland, after the British starved them, and continued to export their food. 

Also, wow black people either really like Biden or really hate Bernie.


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## notimp (Mar 11, 2020)

Probably neither, one of Bidens talking points on the trail is his good friend Barack Obama, and that democrats need an Obama/Biden democrat to run things - whatever that is.

Everyone acknowledges that people are very, very stupid in political races in the US it seems.

Its fine for them to think that way, btw. Its just irrational. (You maybe shouldnt pick a candidate because of that?) But so many things are... I personally wouldnt obsess about stuff like that in political analysis. (If you arent running a campaign.)

I'm more questioning media, why they bring it as a generalized talking point. It should be easy for them to pick out the states, where the black voting demographic would boost Biden over Trump - and then talk specifically about those. That would be more to the point.

I'm saying that - because while looking at average voter distribution by self proclaimed "race" for super tuesday states, to me it was very astonishing just how unequally distributed certain race demographics in the US still are.

I personally find it stupid to no end, that you could have a discussion "black people like Biden more then Bernie", when you cant name a single political policy reason as to why. If the rational goes, along the lines of "he worked with Barack" in my book that shouldnt be enough for media to say - ok, we'll go with that.

At the same time I dont know or want to know how Sanders would racebait them.

I just would want to see a discussion about policy emerge rather than obsessing about who banked what race, because of appeal. (But then I dont live in the US..  I'm just mostly impressed by how stupid elections in the US got by now.)

Its as if everyone had decided people in the US cant be trusted with policy decisions at all, lets have a soap opera festival instead.

You know, democracy.


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## notimp (Apr 9, 2020)

Cabinet is ready!



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/opinion/biden-campaign-covid.html

edit: Sorry, misread - this is just a NYT opinion piece on what will happen next.  Not yet (decided or) confirmed. 

edit: Regardless, that part is gold:
U.N. ambassador, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.


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## FGFlann (Apr 9, 2020)

It's probably a good move to stick the drooling retard in a position of no consequence.


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## notimp (Apr 15, 2020)

Glen Greenwald Interview with Sanders campaign manager:


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## notimp (May 20, 2020)

Vice media now has a documentary online that looks at the Sanders 2020 campaign. Baiscally calls the outcome an establishment hitjob. 

Bernie Blackout (2020)
https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/video/bernie-blackout/5ea88f7e406fa056aa3d4eab

Background should be roughly the following: Millenials are getting screwed, but are too small of a voting demographic to matter.


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## notimp (Jul 26, 2020)

What is a polyarchy:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/polyarchy


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## Hanafuda (Jul 26, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> It's probably a good move to stick the drooling retard in a position of no consequence.




If Joe Biden is elected the DNC will see to his death by night, probably with a pillow, within the first 3 months he is in office. He's just the horse they have to ride, and will be put down when he outlives his usefulness.


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## FGFlann (Jul 26, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> If Joe Biden is elected the DNC will see to his death by night, probably with a pillow, within the first 3 months he is in office. He's just the horse they have to ride, and will be put down when he outlives his usefulness.


A lot of people think that Joe Biden is going to die in office because of his age. I doubt very much the party would be inclined to bump him off though. Personally I think it's paranoid nonsense but putting on my tin foil hat for a second;  with his mental faculties failing wouldn't he be the ideal choice as far as puppet candidates go?


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## Joe88 (Jul 26, 2020)

It's obvious at this point he has some stage of dementia, I dont think it's alzheimer's. Almost everytime he speaks he fails to put up a complete and coherent sentence. Even reading a telepromter he still messes up.
This debate is going to be an absolute shit show.

This was the latest interview
.@JoeBiden: "I had nurses at Walter Reed hospital who would bend down and whisper in my ear, go home and get me pillows. They would … actually breathe in my nostrils to make me move, to get me moving.” pic.twitter.com/hxW1UYs7Ba— Tom Elliott (@tomselliott) July 22, 2020


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2020)

@Joe88: Are you this dumb, or do you find it funny to post pure propaganda?

Biden is talking about his time in the ICU at Walter Reed, after a brain aneurysma.
https://eu.delawareonline.com/story...-life-threatening-brain-aneurysms/3002961002/

Literally the next sentence of the clip you posted was "you lie there and you look at the line at the screen in front of you, and you know - that if it goes flat, you're gone'.
(see f.e. )

If you take that out of context you are an effing asshole.

The nurses told him to get pillows for them to give him a sense of agency. And they blew into his nostrils to provoke a bodily reaction (probably) so the patient can get a sense of - again self agency (not just passively lying there and wasting away), moving his body in a 'defensive reaction' to that. As they are literally staring at their heart rate in the ICU.

So what made you take that entire context away, and make it sound like the ramblings of a demented person? Because that was entirely you acting like an ahole..

Agitating, lying, piece of....

Do you expect no one will follow up the misrepresentations you post? The fuck?


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## FGFlann (Jul 27, 2020)

notimp said:


> @Joe88: Are you this dumb, or do you find it funny to post pure propaganda?
> 
> Biden is talking about his time in the ICU at Walter Reed, after a brain aneurysma.
> https://eu.delawareonline.com/story...-life-threatening-brain-aneurysms/3002961002/
> ...



Calm down a bit. It's a weird thing for a person with no specialized knowledge to read, so it's understandable that they could interpret it as one of Biden's numerous episodes. It's enough to just explain the situation without being so aggressive.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2020)

But who is clipping that and for what purpose?

And who still hasnt learned to at least look up the whole soundbite, before posting agitation propaganda?

Forgiven and forgottem (on the personal fault/interaction part), stuff like this can happen. Just dont let it happen too often...

Again, on Facebook the "self correcting" aspect of community is broken, so stuff like this can get traction, without someone correcting it - in here, not so much. So try to check it yourself before posting, next time.

edit: And sorry about the language, but - hey... This was was actually pretty nasty in its own right.


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## FGFlann (Jul 27, 2020)

notimp said:


> But who is clipping that and for what purpose?
> 
> And who still hasnt learned to at least look up the whole soundbite, before posting agitation propaganda?
> 
> ...


All political point scoring is like this, you know that. It's the oldest dirty trick in the book. All partisans do this and they lap it up just as happily.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2020)

Daisy, Daisy, Daisy. (edit: referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_(advertisement) )


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## Joe88 (Jul 27, 2020)

notimp said:


> @Joe88: Are you this dumb, or do you find it funny to post pure propaganda?
> 
> Biden is talking about his time in the ICU at Walter Reed, after a brain aneurysma.
> https://eu.delawareonline.com/story...-life-threatening-brain-aneurysms/3002961002/
> ...



Nurses are not taught to breath into some ones nose, that was the point of the post, it never happened, he just made it up just like the many other things he has said the last couple of years. This was a hospital in an ICU in1988, he was most likely on a ventilator already after his brain surgery, and if he needed resuscitation they would have used a defibrillator along with chest compressions. And they dont just breath into his nose for stimulation either, this is how disease can spread or create an infection, ICU's are very sterile environments. His story is just another gaffe.


Now onto your behavior towards me and other members who post here, I would to remind you of the sticky posted in the section from the sites admin, particularly points 1 and 2 https://gbatemp.net/threads/disclaimer-read-this-before-posting.493895/

If you cannot control yourself discussing politics while treating members with different political viewpoints with respect, then you have no business posting here. This isn't reddit or twitter where you can get away with that trash. If I see you attacking someone (and a staff member no less) like that again, you will banned from this section, this will be your only warning.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2020)

None of what is said in the video makes sense as a made up bit.

Every part of it makes sense as "get the patient to experience a form of self agency" (being more than just a 'body' withering away in an immobile state), even if it is just 'slight discomfort' of someone breathing into your nose. And you showing a reaction of 'not liking that'.

I'm sure it would be freaking hard to prove, that this was a standard medical procedure way back then, but every part of what was said was said in the context of "they did stuff, just to make you feel more than an effing vegetable".


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2020)

Or simply this:



> mouth to nose breathing was more effective than mouth-to-mouth in simulated resuscitations using anaesthetised, apnoeic patients


https://resus.me/mouth-to-nose-breathing/
https://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1922586

Shit - someone at Walter Reed might have known what they were doing. Quick, someone tell the alt right echo chamber of self righteous assholes.

edit2: Why do mouth to mouth or mouth to nose resuscitation - when "there are machines"?
Turns out, there is a process named "weaning": https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinic...hysical-and-psychological-effects-08-05-2007/

edit3: Also - if the patient has spasms of the chewing muscles in the minutes after stopping to breath, you immediately start mouth to nose resuscitation - even in the presence of equipment:


> It is inexpedient to waste time on the introduction of the rotor expander, since this is not always possible. Begin mouth-to-nose ventilation.


https://presnyavmo.ru/en/iskusstven...chego-poyavlyayutsya-problemy-s-dyhaniem.html


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## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Jimmy Dore (not a great news source, very conspiracy prone..  ) dug up this one two hours ago:

NYT:


> The matter of What To Do About Bernie and the larger imperative of party unity has, for example, hovered over a series of previously undisclosed Democratic dinners in New York and Washington organized by the longtime party financier Bernard Schwartz. The gatherings have included scores from the moderate or center-left wing of the party, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California; Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the minority leader; former Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia; Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Ind., himself a presidential candidate; and the president of the Center for American Progress, Neera Tanden.


https://web.archive.org/web/2020022...politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

Who is Bernard L. Schwarz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_L._Schwartz

Axios: (five days ago)


> One near-certainty about Joe Biden's Cabinet: Pete Buttigieg will be in it. Biden officials have made clear to donors and party officials the question surrounding Buttigieg is not if, but where, he lands, Democrats close to Biden tell Axios.



Just for the laughs:


> The multilingual Buttigieg has told friends he wants U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, but he may face internal competition from Julie Smith, a longtime Biden foreign policy confidant.


https://www.axios.com/pete-buttigieg-joe-biden-cabinet-ec5af2b1-c884-4d50-ae41-e40bee7dde8b.html

edit:


> Buttigieg, whose campaign had already by 2019's third quarter attracted the support of 39 billionaires, came under fire from progressives on social media after pictures surfaced from a fundraiser on Sunday in Napa, California's Hall Rutherford wine caves which appeared to show the mayor dining with elites.
> 
> _The Associated Press_ described the scene of the dinner in an article Friday:
> 
> ...


https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...-rich-sanders-reminds-voters-billionaires-not



Please dont ban me for not editing the previous post, made three and a half months ago.


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## notimp (Mar 11, 2021)

Tellall book! Fresh out of the presses!


edit: Interview with the authors:


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