# Is hydroxycloroquine really efficient at treating covid-19?



## SG854 (Jul 28, 2020)

Doctors Claim Hydroxychloroquine is a cure and prevention for Covid-19. Along with azithromycin or doxycycline, and zinc.

Doctors says the WHO (World Health Organization) claims Hydroxychloroquine is not effective because of the studies that gave too much &/or treated at wrong times. But in right amount and treated at the right time is a cure for Covid-19. They say its very safe to take.

Doctors say people are needlessly dying because of Politics and Hydroxychloroquine being shut down. That there's no need for Schools to Shut Down, no need for businesses to shut down and loose money. Suicide, Spousal Abuse and many mental health problems have gone up as a result of lock down. And these things are needlessly happening.

So it seems like Trump was right about Hydroxychloroquine. That he wasn't spreading false information. He was just listening to the advice of doctors and health experts. But they censored him and censored what could be life saving medical information. This is violation of section 230. Censoring the person we need to be able to hear which is our very own President of the United States after he shared this information.

People and experts say the we should listen to the Doctors, people with real expertise. I am not a Doctor, and many of you aren't Doctors. But the people in the video, in the link below are doctors. So based on that advise we should listen to them. But Andy Stone says they removed the video from face book because it contained false information. But Andy Stone is not a Doctor. And he thinks the Trump video of the Doctors should be overwritten by the WHO as if they are the only gate keepers of information.

*Facebook, Google/YouTube, Twitter Censor Viral Video of Doctors' Capitol Hill Coronavirus Press Conference*


*The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It | Opinion*


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

LA Doctor says that prescribing Hydroxychloroquine in Conjuction with Zinc says that all his patients were symptoms free within 8 to 12 hours. But it needs to be used with Zinc to be effective. This was posted 3 months ago on ABC News.




Another article saying countries that use Hydroxychloroquine have lower fatality rate then countries that don't, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons say.


https://techstartups.com/2020/07/23...ssociation-american-physicians-surgeons-says/


Also a separate study also shows success with Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc.


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

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It really seems like the reason why media is pushing hard against Hydroxychloroquine is because Trump supports it and recommends it based on medical advice. Lots of political bickering and tribe mentality. People are choosing politics over other peoples lives.

It also seems like the studies that say its ineffective are flawed. They prescribed too much which can be dangerous. Or didn't prescribe at the right time. But there has been effective successful use when used right.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

So about 100 million doses of Hydroxychloroquine were given to federal agencies but hardly any released to the public as the article states. So Trump knows exactly its effectiveness, which is why he recommends it, and why he posted the video about its effectiveness before it got taken down by major social media networks.

South Korea, India, Turkey, Russia and Israel are countries that encourage Hydroxychloroquine use and have been most successful at combating Covid-19.

And many people use South Korea as a good example on how to properly combat Covid-19 because of their lower mortality rates and high success rates.


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## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

Some interesting articles thanks


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## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

Here's a pretty long excerpt from this article that you should read:


Spoiler: Excerpt



Amid growing evidence the drug is not effective, the FDA announced in June that it had revoked the EUA for the drugs because they are “unlikely to be effective in treating COVID-19 for the authorized uses in the EUA,” and that the “known and potential benefits” of the drugs “no longer outweigh” the risks — which can include “serious cardiac adverse events and other potential serious side effects.”

A large randomized controlled study called RECOVERY, in the U.K., reported in a preprint, which hasn’t been peer-reviewed, that hydroxychloroquine wasn’t associated with reduced mortality — and was actually associated with “an increased length of hospital stay and increased risk of progressing to invasive mechanical ventilation or death.” The study said that 26.8% of the 1,561 patients given hydroxychloroquine died within 28 days, whereas 25% of patients given usual care died in that time span — a difference that was not statistically significant.

The authors wrote that “these results indicate that hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment for patients hospitalized with COVID-19.”

Another study published July 16 in the _Annals of Internal Medicine_ — a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial that involved more than 400 participants  — found that “hydroxychloroquine did not substantially reduce symptom severity in outpatients with early, mild COVID-19.”

There was one observational study by the Henry Ford Health System, published in the _International Journal of Infectious Diseases_ on July 1, that found hydroxychloroquine was associated with lower mortality for patients hospitalized with COVID-19. But, as we’ve explained before, the study has limitations — and it stands in contrast to multiple randomized controlled trials that have found the drug is not beneficial to hospitalized patients (and two other observational studies).

During the press conference, Immanuel also claimed that a 2005 study “said it works.”

That study — which found that “[c]hloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS-CoV in cell culture” — “is no evidence at all that it’s a cure for COVID,” Schluger said.

“That was a different coronavirus; that was the coronavirus that causes SARS,” he said. Secondly, he said, the study involved cells in test tubes. Potential drugs are evaluated in test tubes, then in animals, before they move into the three phases of clinical human trials, he said — and 90% of drug candidates that make it to human trials fail because they aren’t effective or aren’t safe.

A study in a test tube involving a different virus, Schluger added, is “not how the FDA approves drugs.”



Multiple tests have shown that Hydroxychloroquine simply doesn't work.

This article you cited is not peer-reviewed, I would not trust it. Plus it only states "hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19." Not only does it not definitively state whether or not hydroxychloroquine is even effective, it certainly doesn't call hydroxychloroquine a "cure".

And this article you cited is from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a conservative non-profit. They also claim that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism. Not a good resource either.

So, yes, you are correct that these "doctors" are being censored, but that's for good reason. It's because they're *wrong.* It has been proven multiple times that hydroxychloroquine is not a cure, to suggest otherwise is simply wrong and dangerous.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

cauliquackers said:


> Some interesting articles thanks


If this is true I can see why Trump pulled out of the World Health Orginization. 

I smell conspiracy.


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## phalk (Jul 29, 2020)

Nope.



Seliph said:


> Here's a pretty long excerpt from this article:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Excerpt
> ...



Pretty much this.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Here's a pretty long excerpt from this article:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Excerpt
> ...


What about the LA Doctor that used it but had success rates? Or the Doctors in the video that used it that also had success rates?


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## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> What about the LA Doctor that used it but had success rates? Or the Doctors in the video that used it that also had success rates?


There is no way you read any part of the article I just posted considering how quickly you responded. Go back and read it. Those doctors you mentioned are *liars.*


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

@Seliph What it used in conjunction with Zinc?
What were the dose amounts?


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## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> If this is true I can see why Trump pulled out of the World Health Orginization.
> 
> I smell conspiracy.



Just to be transparent, I just like to read about conspiracies, I don't really believe in it. Sorry if it was misleading :V


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## Viri (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> If this is true I can see why Trump pulled out of the World Health Orginization.
> 
> I smell conspiracy.


Here is a funny post from the WHO that surely aged well.



Spoiler



https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en


If only they listened to the "other China". The one that keeps getting blacklisted.


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## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> @Seliph What it used in conjunction with Zinc?
> What were the dose amounts?


Read the article dummy


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

Seliph said:


> There is no way you read any part of the article I just posted considering how quickly you responded. Go back and read it. Those doctors you mentioned are *liars.*



The comment @Viri just posted really shows that the WHO doesn't get all its information right either.

WHO
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus" 

We know that is 100% wrong now.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Seliph said:


> Read the article dummy


Since you read it tell me. Show me that you understand it. Inform me.

Its a simple yes or no question. Did they use zinc? Did they prescribe high doses?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@Seliph From there I can read the article myself to see if you got the information from it correctly. 

As the doctor said zinc needs to be used in conjunction with Hydroxychloroquine. If the study didn't take this into account then its a flawed study. 

I really think you pulled out of your ass that they are liars without knowing anything about the doctors. You probably don't even know their history and just accused them. Its not really good faith argument.


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## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Here's a pretty long excerpt from this article that you should read:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Excerpt
> ...



To be fair, the article literally was just a summary of hospital records. It's likely they'll pass through peer review.



SG854 said:


> LA Doctor says that prescribing Hydroxychloroquine in Conjuction with Zinc says that all his patients were symptoms free within 8 to 12 hours. But it needs to be used with Zinc to be effective. This was posted 3 months ago on ABC News.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I finally finished going through these links (I'm a slow reader). A lot of your sources have conflicts of interest, which is not really a great thing when you're trying to get objectivity. I think unfortunately in today's world, you can really find support for anything you want to believe in. The question is, when there are way more articles debunking than there are supporting hydroxychloroquine, why do you feel like there is some kind conspiracy?


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## aerios169 (Jul 29, 2020)

I am doctor and the cure is false, cloroquine isnt true, the study that said that was with 10 patiens and they was followed for 14 Days. There was not diference beweent in not use it and use it abrir the time that Took to recovery of the disease. In other words it dosent help to covid sickness also there are alot of adverse efects secondary to use it. 

please belive only the words that said your medical carer. There are alot of miss information. I had to atent a child who drank acid because some one told that it can erradicate the virus


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

cauliquackers said:


> To be fair, the article literally was just a summary of hospital records. It's likely they'll pass through peer review.
> 
> 
> 
> I finally finished going through these links (I'm a slow reader). A lot of your sources have conflicts of interest, which is not really a great thing when you're trying to get objectivity. I think unfortunately in today's world, you can really find support for anything you want to believe in. The question is, when there are way more articles debunking than there are supporting hydroxychloroquine, why do you feel like there is some kind conspiracy?


I only feel it's a conspiracy if its true. If it's not true then it's not a conspiracy.

What studies did you look at that disprove it? Did they use the things I mentioned?

There's so many factors at play here. 

People can accuse the doctors of being fake doctors. But then who can you trust? They say to listen to doctors and im listening. And two different groups give conflicting information.


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## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Since you read it tell me. Show me that you understand it. Inform me.
> 
> Its a simple yes or no question. Did they use zinc? Did they prescribe high doses?


So again I direct towards the article I cited. Please read it, I know you're literate so please take 5 minutes of your time and read it.

I'm not sure why you're so fixated on zinc either as if using zinc (which yes, all of the tests do use zinc) changes the fact that your "doctors" are simply lying to your face. 

So if by "they" you mean the people who have conducted these experiments, yes "they" use zinc. In what I've found, doses vary depending on the test, though most experiments yield the same result: *nothing.
*
Please read the article. It is fully sourced and literally debunks everything you've said.
*
*


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

J


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## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

Seliph said:


> So if by "they" you mean the people who have conducted these experiments, yes "they" use zinc. In what I've found, doses vary depending on the test, though most experiments yield the same result: *nothing.
> *
> Please read the article. It is fully sourced and literally debunks everything you've said.



Again, to be fair, like the first one i clicked on didnt have zinc

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SG854 said:


> I only feel it's a conspiracy if its true. If it's not true then it's not a conspiracy.
> 
> What studies did you look at that disprove it? Did they use the things I mentioned?
> 
> ...



Well, both the WHO and FDA website were convincing for me. 
(https://www.who.int/news-room/detai...pinavir-ritonavir-treatment-arms-for-covid-19
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...oroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or)

My understanding is that while it's possible that hydroxy can help, the risks and health dangers far outweigh the benefits. It's best to look for more treatments.

I agree that the information out there is confusing. But I think what people dislike is how some doctors seem to have conflicts of interest. For example, if they're part of an organization that has said false information before (like the hiv and aids thing) then people are more likely to distrust them. Whereas WHO and FDA are more neutral players. I think what it comes down to is its much easier to fall for a lie that you think is a "secret" versus the boring reality.


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## MFDC12 (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> The comment @Viri just posted really shows that the WHO doesn't get all its information right either.
> 
> WHO
> "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus"
> ...



I put a lot of thought on stuff like this earlier and decided that I think it's weird, specifically in a pandemic of a brand new virus, where our knowledge of the virus grows by the day, that people hold on to statements from months ago to criticize people/organizations (especially one that was like less than a month after it was first identified) - it's a brand new identified virus, of course everything is going to constantly change and therefore advice and stuff are going to change. It's like how Fauci didn't recommend masks at first and then he started to once evidence came out, and people hold him to that original quote and criticize him for it. So, I mean, I think it's obvious it would be spread person-person, but I'm not holding it against the WHO with the limited knowledge we had at the time.

Edit: I just want to say this wasn't a shot at you or Viri at all, because I get frustrated like you at the the misinformation + conflicting info of covid, but it's just something we need to keep in mind (re: it being new and new information comes daily)


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## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

cauliquackers said:


> Again, to be fair, like the first one i clicked on didnt have zinc


Oh, which one are you talking about? In this one: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/i...ly-touts-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid-19-cure/, it mentions zinc only twice on the article but it's not a study, it's just fact-checking the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a cure.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

Seliph said:


> So again I direct towards the article I cited. Please read it, I know you're literate so please take 5 minutes of your time and read it.
> 
> I'm not sure why you're so fixated on zinc either as if using zinc (which yes, all of the tests do use zinc) changes the fact that your "doctors" are simply lying to your face.
> 
> ...


Why do they do this to us?
Why lie to us?

I don't like being lied to.
Nothing pisses me off more.

Whats wrong with these people.

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Seliph said:


> Oh, which one are you talking about? In this one: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/i...ly-touts-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid-19-cure/, it mentions zinc only twice on the article but it's not a study, it's just fact-checking the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a cure.


I don't know anymore. So much disinformation people saying this and that. Its annoying to go scramble for information.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Seliph said:


> Oh, which one are you talking about? In this one: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/i...ly-touts-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid-19-cure/, it mentions zinc only twice on the article but it's not a study, it's just fact-checking the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a cure.


I'm pretty sure a conservative outlet will claim that fact check is wrong then lists reasons why, then another rebuttle from the other side, then another. It hurts my head with all this nonsense scrambling to get the right information.


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## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Why do they do this to us?
> Why lie to us?
> 
> I don't like being lied to.
> ...


Right? It's very frustrating to be lied to. It's very hard to find the correct information and I'm sorry that I was a bit rude to you before. Just make sure to always be skeptical of what you read, and often if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I wish everything was straightforward and no one ever lied, but sadly that often isn't the case.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

aerios169 said:


> I am doctor and the cure is false, cloroquine isnt true, the study that said that was with 10 patiens and they was followed for 14 Days. There was not diference beweent in not use it and use it abrir the time that Took to recovery of the disease. In other words it dosent help to covid sickness also there are alot of adverse efects secondary to use it.
> 
> please belive only the words that said your medical carer. There are alot of miss information. I had to atent a child who drank acid because some one told that it can erradicate the virus


Thank You Doctor. I did not see your post till now.

Whats your opinion on all this false information? Why do you think they do it? What is their end goal?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Seliph said:


> Right? It's very frustrating to be lied to. It's very hard to find the correct information and I'm sorry that I was a bit rude to you before. Just make sure to always be skeptical of what you read, and often if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
> 
> I wish everything was straightforward and no one ever lied, but sadly that often isn't the case.


I just want the right information, thats all.

But people that have debated me on this site know that I'm willing to accept information that proves whatever I find to be wrong. That's the point of debates right? To learn, to bring something you find and let someone else bring what they find. And I know its good to be skeptical, anything I post here is not final that I will always believe, I can change my mind.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@Seliph its fine that you were rude. I do the same thing too even though I know I shouldn't. Sometimes I can be calm like I should, sometimes though I dont follow what I preach.


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## PizzaBitez (Jul 29, 2020)

I thought it was proven that this stuff doesn't work. Wasn't trump taking this stuff as a preventative?


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## crimpshrine (Jul 29, 2020)

https://c19study.com/

39 Peer reviewed studies.  Given early highly effective, late not so much.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> https://c19study.com/
> 
> 39 Peer reviewed studies.  Given early highly effective, late not so much.


Maybe there is something there? I dunno. 

39 peer reviews versus how many peer reviewed against it?


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## morvoran (Jul 29, 2020)

Well, of course, the Lame stream media, google, Yahoo, Twitter, and the other big tech companies are going to censor any evidence or claims that hydroxychloroquine works as it makes "Orange Man Bad" look better than he already does to the public.  They also don't want to insult and upset their "Dear Leader" President Xi by allowing anybody to go against his agenda on their platforms.  They might end up being cancelled by their own peers.


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## crimpshrine (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Maybe there is something there? I dunno.
> 
> 39 peer reviews versus how many peer reviewed against it?



Look for yourself.  A lot more positive then negative.

Example of one negative:
Late stage RCT of 667 hospitalized patients with up to 14 days of symptoms at enrollment and receiving up to 4 liters per minute supplemental oxygen, not finding a significant effect after 15 days.

It has already been established it needs to be done early, not late.  Once the virus has setup shop on your body for those unlucky enough to be overwhelmed by it.  It is hard to overcome.  I am no scientist or doctor but it would seem based on what I have seen so far  if taken early enough it disrupts the virus enough that it can't get a hold.

And the latest seems to be a 3 combo deal, the HCQ + some antibiotic and Zinc I believe.


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## lordofcombo (Jul 29, 2020)

I dont know about USA where the virus is thriving,in Africa death toll have been reduced drastically,apparently the virus is weakened.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Look for yourself.  A lot more positive then negative.
> 
> Example of one negative:
> Late stage RCT of 667 hospitalized patients with up to 14 days of symptoms at enrollment and receiving up to 4 liters per minute supplemental oxygen, not finding a significant effect after 15 days.
> ...


It's just a question I'm throwing up in the air.

If this is true then what the doctors said in my OP were telling the truth. I know fact check has gotten information wrong in the past. And the post @Viri posted shows the WHO doesn't always get its information right.

This is the exact thing I was telling @Seliph about. One side gives information, then the others side gives debunking information, then the other, then other and it keeps going. Its frustrating, because there is always something you miss, that you sometimes have to search deep for. There's always something you miss.

Someone here claiming to be a doctor says that it doesn't work. But so did the doctors in the video I linked, they claimed that they were doctors. So anyone can claim to be a doctor. Be they also gave the advice to listen to you primary doctors when you see them in person. So thats best advice and better information then just listening to someone on the internet claiming to be a doctor. Because it's a physical person you are seeing face to face.

Getting to the bottom of this is going to be frustrating.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

But then the people in the video I linked also claimed to be doctors and people physically saw them and were treated by them. So we should be skeptical even of our primary doctors too. Its just craziness that hurts my head.


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## notimp (Jul 29, 2020)

So now people in here trust random sampling website stating summarized results, over the FDA.

HCQ No Longer Approved Even a Little for COVID-19 — Study after study showed no benefit, and now the FDA has had enough



> The FDA rescinded its emergency use authorization (EUA) of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to treat COVID-19 patients, citing concerns about efficacy and risks associated with its use, and saying the drug no longer meets the criteria for an EUA, the agency said on Monday.





> "The agency determined that the legal criteria for issuing an EUA are no longer met," according to an FDA statement. Both hydroxychloroquine and a related antimalarial drug, chloroquine (CQ), are "unlikely to be effective at treating COVID-19" for uses described in the EUA, the statement continued.
> 
> Moreover, the FDA now says the benefits of the drug "no longer outweigh the potential risks," citing the serious cardiac adverse events associated with the drug.


https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87066

Don't you think, that you can go a little too far in glorifying 'the gospel of Trump'?

edit: Same story in europe.
https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...ial-paused-as-safety-fears-grow-idUSKBN2340A6

Also - there is this issue:


> Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine should continue to be used in chronic conditions (meaning f.e. Lupus patients). In order to prevent unnecessary strain on supply chains, patients should only receive their usual supply of medicines. Healthcare professionals should not write prescriptions that cover more than the usual duration.


https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...used-clinical-trials-emergency-use-programmes

Summary:


> In the search for COVID-19 treatments, several types of medicines are investigated and tested in clinical trials all over the world – among them the two medicines chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, which are currently only authorised for malaria and certain autoimmune diseases. However, the efficacy of these medicines in COVID-19 treatment has not yet been shown in any studies.
> 
> For this reason, the EMA has emphasised in an announcement to only use these products in clinical trials or national emergency use programmes for the treatment of COVID-19 patients whose condition is critical.
> 
> ...


Independant aggregator with 100s of clinical studies: edit: https://laegemiddelstyrelsen.dk/da/...~/media/5B83D25935DF43A38FF823E24604AC36.ashx

Conclusion,
- On that website you dont find "hundreds of clinical trials" you find 65.Those can be picked with a bias to show those showing positive results. In fact, even the website title makes it clear, that the whole purpose of the website is, to promote a 'they are showing positive results!!111!!' narrative.

- The website at the top shows an image of overall infections (log scale), and cycles in a part "clinical trials with HCQ since here". This means that whoever made the website has an agenda and is an idiot, because if you only do clinical trials with HCQ up to that point, it has no impact on overall infection numbers statistically. (Far to few treatment cases).

- HCQ is one of 100s of drugs that are undergoing clinical trials at the moment. Why that website would only focus in on 65 studies on that specific drug, certainly has political reasons.

- The website uses a color scheme of 'green for 'positive' (statistically relevant positive?) and grey for negative and inconclusive. Apart from possible interpretation bias, and possible selection bias, thjs is another strange way of illustrating a point you alread made in the title of the website you registered a domain for.

- The website shows no author or person responsible and doesnt state which method was used to gather those specific 65 studies (some of which are dated from before Covid-19 existed).

Meaning, this website is propaganda.

edit: Looked a little more into what the graph at the top of the website means:

Here is the quality of argument of Moroccos lead Covid scientist (proposedly a follower of a french scientist Didier Raoult), who pronounced a 100% cure rate after treatment with HCQ.
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/20...hloroquine-success-reveals-european-failures/

Almost all states listed there have one thing in common: Low testing capability, and politically more on the 'illiberal' end.

Morocco is competitive (600 tests per million).
Greece is competitive (500 tests per million).
Turkey has 400 tests per million
Ukraine has 280 tests per million
India has 260 tests per million
Cuba has 260 tests per million
Malaysia has 213 tests per million.
Indonesia has 47 tests per million.

src: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/greece?country=MYS~MAR~TUR~IND~IDN~UKR~CUB

US has 2400 daily tests per million.

The issue with a low daily test rate is, that you would allocate many of those tests to medical personal, which should be protected by PPE.

Also - again, people in Morocco and Greece (lets focus on them - because they are at the top of the 'capabilities' list) would only have been treated, when they reached hospitals. In which case, patients testing positive for Covid-19 would have been isolated anyhow. So how that treatment in those countries should have lead to a lower overall infection rate is questionable.

Impact of overall deathrate per million is hard to gage as well, as this is strongly correlated with overall number of infections.

But the graph itself seems to be less idiotic as first thought, because HCQ was a standard treatment in some of those countries (some, because I didn't check all of them..  ).

edit:


> One of the world's largest studies - the Recovery trial run by Oxford University - has involved 11,000 patients with coronavirus in hospitals across the UK and included testing hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness against the disease, along with other potential treatments.
> 
> It concluded that "there is no beneficial effect of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalised with Covid-19" and the drug has now been pulled from the trial.
> 
> ...


https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731



> Back at the start of the pandemic, laboratory studies had suggested the malaria drug could affect the virus. Small-scale studies in China and France then hinted it might help patients.
> 
> There was a huge amount of hope, as the medicine is cheap and has been safely used to treat malaria and conditions such as lupus and arthritis.
> 
> ...


https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52937153


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## notimp (Jul 29, 2020)

> Impact of overall deathrate per million is hard to gage (looking only at absolute death numbers per million) as well, as this is strongly correlated with overall number of infections.



Looked into that aspect:

Lets compare overall infection numbers per million of said countries to Germany or France:

Germany: 2505
France: 3124

Turkey: 2780
Ukraine: 1585
India: 1133
Morocco: 594
Greece: 390
Indonesia: 380
Malaysia: 288
Cuba: 232

(calculated using the case numbers on https://ncov2019.live/ and googled population numbers for the respective countries)

So that is the main statistical lie in the graph on c19study.com/

Deathrates on most of those countries are five times lower (in absolute numbers) than in france, because (partly because of testing rate), case rate in those countries also is more than five times lower (in absolute numbers).

If you dont factor that out and are telling people on social media, the difference is mainly because of HCQ - you are pushing propaganda.

So now our problem becomes "how to explain that Turkey, Ukraine, and India have strangely low deathrates, compared to most western countries'. 

And the answer to that doesnt necessarily have to be - HCQ. 

edit: Deathrate mismatch in Greece (18.4 per million) vs France (451 per million) is still puzzling though.. 
Confirmed infections per million are 390 vs 3124, so less than a 10x difference.

Not sure this is attributable to HCQ though. 

Again, as hospitals reach peak capacity, deathrates increase manyfold.

So looking at population numbers when gaging the effectiveness of HCQ is problematic..


----------



## Taleweaver (Jul 29, 2020)

*sigh*

Okay, I'm not going to bother with this shit and be frank about it: Donald Trump has been very vocal about the stuff. If it worked, you wouldn't have had the current death toll. But you do.

Ergo: the WHO was right. Trump was wrong.

/leaves


----------



## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

@notimp 

Whoa very thorough and informative. 

However, I disagree with deathrates being a function (in part) of testing rate. Knowing whether someone died of covid is not dependent on whether they got tested while they were alive. I actually think a standardized death rate is a way better comparative measure of how hard a country is getting hit by the virus, especially because, as you mentioned earlier, the availability of tests varies so much between countries.


----------



## notimp (Jul 29, 2020)

cauliquackers said:


> However, I disagree with deathrates being a function (in part) of testing rate. Knowing whether someone died of covid is not dependent on whether they got tested while they were alive.


If they were tested when they were dead, is a factor of overall testing capability.

If most of that is locked to your medical staff (daily testing), because you want to prevent them from becoming a vector, that still shifts priorities.

Also testing people while they were alive should have priority over testing them, when they are dead. (Alive means still a contagion risk)

Also we know, that reporting death numbers (procedure) widely varies between countries (actual cases tested, vs anyone who died at a hospital during the pandemic).


----------



## Mythical (Jul 29, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> https://c19study.com/
> 
> 39 Peer reviewed studies.  Given early highly effective, late not so much.


some of those articles are from before covid even existed. Like the article from 1896? not so helpful


----------



## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

notimp said:


> If they were tested when they were dead, is a factor of overall testing capability. If most of that is locked to your medical staff (daily testing), because you want to prevent them from becoming a vector, that still shifts priorities. Also testing people while they were alive should have priority over testing them, when they are dead. (Alive means still a contagion risk)



Actually from the CDC, "When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death – or when it is listed as a “probable” or “presumed” cause — the death is coded as U07.1. _This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation._"



notimp said:


> Also we know, that reporting death numbers (procedure) widely varies between countries (actual cases tested, vs anyone who died at a hospital during the pandemic).



Sure this is definitely a possibility.

I just think the testing argument is flimsy. Now if we found countries with early HCQ use that experienced high death rates or no HCQ use that experienced low death rates anyway that would be interesting.


----------



## crimpshrine (Jul 29, 2020)

Mythical said:


> some of those articles are from before covid even existed. Like the article from 1896? not so helpful



9 articles out of maybe 80 or 90 studies?  I think the 1896 one one is just establishing Quinine as being associated that early with respiratory.

Covid-19 is a cornavirus, and the first article in 2003 talks about CQ's effects on several viruses

The other 7 articles in the 2000's are dealing with Choloroquine effects on SARS viruses witch are also cronaviruses, like covid-19

I am guessing the point is that some form of chloroquine has documented results as recently as 2004 has having a positive effect on viruses, specifically cornaviruses.

To others regarding https://c19study.com/

As far as I am concerned I don't see it as propaganda, if you can prove that the over 39 studies on there that were positive that most were peer reviewed are fake, then maybe.  It lists both negative and positive findings.  The positive outweigh the negatives.  And many of the negatives seem to be negative because it was given too late.

My understanding is some variation of this has been given to people for 60+ years safely.  It is freely available in countries where malaria is common.  My understanding over the counter in some places.

People like to site the FDA as finding problems with this.  If chloroquine has been being taken for over 60 years safely by large parts of the world then that already contradicts the FDA findings to some degree in my opinion.  60 year real-world use vs the FDA searching the FAERS database (covering a 6 month time frame) after the fact does not seem perfect.  Especially when we come to find how much error has occurred during this in hospitals when it comes to Covid.   There are many people even in the US that take it without issue.  I know people with RA take some form of it.

If you look at the FDA report there is a WIDE spread of the dosage amount given to users.  Anywhere from 200mg to 1200mg per day. Maybe it needs to be more refined study? 

You have doctors claiming they prescribe it without issue and prescribed early have had excellent success.  I have no idea what the dosage has been for the doctors that claim success but it seems odd to me that the FDA would be so wide in dosage in their search findings.  1200mg per day vs 200mg per day seems drastically different.   I also don't see a correlation between problems found and dosage levels.

Also I see from the FDA report they only have data on 256 people from this DB search they based their report on.  How many total were treated?  I can't find those #'s.


----------



## CallmeBerto (Jul 29, 2020)

No dice guys - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...-V7CAcS2j7xgKGseG3YZINSrkCMzoGwWpM-VsSWJqrCWM

CONCLUSIONS
Among patients hospitalized with mild-to-moderate Covid-19, the use of hydroxychloroquine, alone or with azithromycin, did not improve clinical status at 15 days as compared with standard care. (Funded by the Coalition Covid-19 Brazil and EMS Pharma; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04322123.


----------



## FGFlann (Jul 29, 2020)

How's everyone enjoying the statistics dance? Going back and forth from study to study making opposing claims is wild. Whether it's pro or anti you're better off being skeptical of everything you hear because this isn't going to be settled for a long time.


----------



## regnad (Jul 29, 2020)

Maybe we should make a vaccine using alien DNA and demon sperm.


----------



## CallmeBerto (Jul 29, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> How's everyone enjoying the statistics dance? Going back and forth from study to study making opposing claims is wild. Whether it's pro or anti you're better off being skeptical of everything you hear because this isn't going to be settled for a long time.




I think it comes from a good place. People want there to be some hope so people don't have to die and we can return to something more normal.


----------



## FGFlann (Jul 29, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> I think it comes from a good place. People want there to be some hope so people don't have to die and we can return to something more normal.


Why coddle them? People are going to die, that's just how it is. Life has to go on regardless. Our response has been way too sensational already. There's no miracle cure incoming, the in development vaccines are the best we're going to get. Loss of life is sad but we should keep some perspective, it's not the end of the world by a long shot.


----------



## CallmeBerto (Jul 29, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> Why coddle them? People are going to die, that's just how it is. Life has to go on regardless. Our response has been way too sensational already. There's no miracle cure incoming, the in development vaccines are the best we're going to get. Loss of life is sad but we should keep some perspective, it's not the end of the world by a long shot.



Oh I agree; I've been against the lock downs and most thing we have done since day one. I agree but I do understand the other side.

Just wear a mask and protect yourself as best as you can.


----------



## FGFlann (Jul 29, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> Oh I agree; I've been against the lock downs and most thing we have done since day one. I agree but I do understand the other side.
> 
> Just wear a mask and protect yourself as best as you can.


Pretty much. Minimizing human contact minimizes your risk. All the hullabaloo over masks and medications is just useless noise next to a simple truth. Social distance sensibly.


----------



## ecko (Jul 29, 2020)

So far I've heard, maybe. But could be more dangerous than getting infected.


----------



## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Okay, I'm not going to bother with this shit and be frank about it: Donald Trump has been very vocal about the stuff. If it worked, you wouldn't have had the current death toll. But you do.
> 
> ...


That's the thing, they claim we haven't been using it which is why we have the current death toll, and countries that do have low death rates. So you are not getting at their core argument and they will write off your comment as whatever.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FGFlann said:


> How's everyone enjoying the statistics dance? Going back and forth from study to study making opposing claims is wild. Whether it's pro or anti you're better off being skeptical of everything you hear because this isn't going to be settled for a long time.


We need an aggregate of all the studies for and against to see the overall which is correct, and ones that include zinc, because if we don't Include ones that used zinc then they will say those studies are flawed.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



regnad said:


> Maybe we should make a vaccine using alien DNA and demon sperm.


Apparently there's someone that believes Sperm is the miracle drug against Corona Virus. So your idea of someone actually using sperm is not all that out there in the real world called life,  but without the demon or alien part. But she might be a demon alien for all we know. She's stockpiling on frozen seemen for the long fight ahead against corona virus on a planet called Earth, where of course earthly diseases is a problem for a demon alien like her.


----------



## CallmeBerto (Jul 29, 2020)

nanomachines, son


----------



## Taleweaver (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> That's the thing, they claim we haven't been using it which is why we have the current death toll, and countries that do have low death rates. So you are not getting at their core argument and they will write off your comment as whatever.


The "they" you're refering to has a trustworthy level in the negative digits. So when "they" make claims, it's up to you to believe their lies or not (free country and all). I'm not trying to get to "their core argument" (whatever that may be)...I'm just calling bullshit.


----------



## PizzaBitez (Jul 29, 2020)

]



crimpshrine said:


> 9 articles out of maybe 80 or 90 studies?  I think the 1896 one one is just establishing Quinine as being associated that early with respiratory.
> 
> Covid-19 is a cornavirus, and the first article in 2003 talks about CQ's effects on several viruses
> 
> ...



You've got a bunch of good points there!


----------



## SG854 (Jul 29, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> nanomachines, son


That's the secret to life, sperm. They are nanomachines produced for free by Men and only Men because Men are the cure for all of life's dieaseses unlike Women who are useless spermless beings.  We would be saving lots of lives with this miracle gift inside a Man's ball sack.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Taleweaver said:


> The "they" you're refering to has a trustworthy level in the negative digits. So when "they" make claims, it's up to you to believe their lies or not (free country and all). I'm not trying to get to "their core argument" (whatever that may be)...I'm just calling bullshit.


Well they will just ignore you then. They are immune to the word bullshit which means nothing to them until you get to their core argument.


----------



## FGFlann (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> We need an aggregate of all the studies for and against to see the overall which is correct, and ones that include zinc, because if we don't Include ones that used zinc then they will say those studies are flawed.


I can't imagine that aggregating the results of studies is going to be particularly fruitful either. The methodology also needs to be taken into account along with the conclusion and I've seen enough shady use of data to make me wary of any study that's put in front of me.

I'm beyond caring at this point in any case. This debacle of a political football is only being continually regurgitated for point scoring, and in the absence of another potential treatment there's really no point in us plebs continuing to revisit it. The things we actually have control over, like our personal safety, are more important to focus on.


----------



## Taleweaver (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Well they will just ignore you then. They are immune to the word bullshit which means nothing to them until you get to their core argument.


Hah, I wish. It's worse: he fucking WANTS controversy. I bet that if a renowned team had done serious research into hydroxycloroquine, methodologically and empirically tested out stuff and allowed for scientific peer reviews so they could absolutely claim that DID help against covid-19...then Trump would have ignored it and created some other controversy (offering state secrets...updating the constitution...basically anything a B-movie villain would come up with). From what I gathered on social media(1), he isn't exactly keen on defending his stance either.

EDIT: oops...I guess I was accidentally writing satire instead of sarcasm there...because the latest controversy (as of writing) is to remove US troops from Germany (thanks @ChibiMofo for the source). So this dumpster fired is already quelled by the next one. 

(1): meaning: the tidbits that show him talking about the stuff...again


----------



## omgcat (Jul 29, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> I can't imagine that aggregating the results of studies is going to be particularly fruitful either. The methodology also needs to be taken into account along with the conclusion and I've seen enough shady use of data to make me wary of any study that's put in front of me.
> 
> I'm beyond caring at this point in any case. This debacle of a political football is only being continually regurgitated for point scoring, and in the absence of another potential treatment there's really no point in us plebs continuing to revisit it. The things we actually have control over, like our personal safety, are more important to focus on.




hydroxy is awful, there are other treatments in the pipeline. the most exciting one for me is monoclonal antibody production. monoclonal antibodies are a treatment, but do not confer immunity like vaccines. closer to antibiotics than anything else. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767383

monoclonal antibodies were used during the Ebola outbreak and reduced the standard mortality  rate of 75-90% down to around 10%.
some info can be found here: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1915350

there are also a bunch of vaccines coming around the corner and even if a single vaccine doesn't work perfectly, we have the ability to bundle them like the flu vaccines do.


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## UltraSUPRA (Jul 29, 2020)

I HAVE MORE MEMES


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## teamlocust (Jul 29, 2020)

India is the largest producer of hydroxy chloroquine, and is using this to cure covid


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## FGFlann (Jul 29, 2020)

omgcat said:


> hydroxy is awful, there are other treatments in the pipeline. the most exciting one for me is monoclonal antibody production. monoclonal antibodies are a treatment, but do not confer immunity like vaccines. closer to antibiotics than anything else. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767383
> 
> monoclonal antibodies were used during the Ebola outbreak and reduced the standard mortality  rate of 75-90% down to around 10%.
> some info can be found here: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1915350
> ...


I hope that it can be useful if it becomes available.


----------



## weatMod (Jul 29, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Here's a pretty long excerpt from this article that you should read:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Excerpt
> ...


i agree no efficacy  but vaccine do cause autism among other things mostly neurological


----------



## Xzi (Jul 29, 2020)

Doctors and health experts have long since moved on to other drugs and treatments which show far more promise.  Nobody should listen to Mr. "Just Inject Bleach" for health advice.  I wouldn't even trust the guy to take care of a pet goldfish for the weekend.


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## UltraSUPRA (Jul 29, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Doctors and health experts have long since moved on to other drugs and treatments which show far more promise.  Nobody should listen to Mr. "Just Inject Bleach" for health advice.  I wouldn't even trust the guy to take care of a pet goldfish for the weekend.


He said to inject *light*.


----------



## MFDC12 (Jul 29, 2020)

weatMod said:


> i agree no efficacy  but vaccine do cause autism among other things mostly neurological



They do not, and the 1998 study has been debunked so many times, plus, the controversy is almost only with the MMR vaccine and no other. Care to give your sources? Also, as a person with on the spectrum (aspergers), even if they _did_ cause autism, the fact you'd rather have your child die from an entirely preventable disease than have a kid on the spectrum is honestly pretty... gross.


----------



## Seliph (Jul 29, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> He said to inject *light*.


Direct quote from Trump:
*"I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."*


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jul 29, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I HAVE MORE MEMES


Putting this out again because this is the reality we live in.


----------



## weatMod (Jul 29, 2020)

MFDC12 said:


> They do not, and the 1998 study has been debunked so many times, plus, the controversy is almost only with the MMR vaccine and no other. Care to give your sources? Also, as a person with on the spectrum (aspergers), even if they _did_ cause autism, the fact you'd rather have your child die from an entirely preventable disease than have a kid on the spectrum is honestly pretty... gross.


nobody dies from those diseases anymore, i rather take my chances
 and no it's not just MMR    lots of other vaccines contain  neurotoxic   heavy metals  such as mercury and aluminum
 FDA is a joke it's a revolving door  ,   my parents and   their siblings had those diseases and didn't die
 vaccines are   an industry it's a business,  and like any other they  sell you lies to sell your toxic products
another example  is the swine flu vaccine form the 70's and  the  HPV vaccine  thay caus a lot worsr than just autism ,like Guillain-Barret syndrome
i rather not ply Russina  Roulette with being cripple or paralyzed of scourse they will lie and try and tell you event like that are rare
just like the lie say fluroquinolones are safe and that effects are rare it's all lies and BS
i have permanent neurological damage and since being damaged in 2015 found groups online  that have millions of members claiming the same
like ayear or 2 later  FDA finally put  slightly stricter warning on the but they knew for  decades they are unsafe poisons and  the doctors to this day ignore the  warnings and still prescribe them the  same  s they did before, 
if you want to trust big pharma criminals and the criminal FDA with your health good luck

oh and BTW the vaccine are  so safe that the government and the revolving   door FDA have given  the manufactures total immunity from any and all litigation
so good luck trying to sue them  when  something happens


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jul 29, 2020)

I'm no antivaxxer, but when a vaccine for the Coronavirus is released, I _will_ be waiting at least a month before getting it. Stuff like that needs to be tested.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jul 29, 2020)

cauliquackers said:


> in today's world, you can really find support for anything you want to believe in


Simple, but beautiful statement.


----------



## CallmeBerto (Jul 29, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Putting this out again because this is the reality we live in.



ummmm vaccines go through a lot of test before they are available to the public. Phase 1, 2, 3 etc.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Seliph said:


> Direct quote from Trump:
> *"I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."*




In his defense; the disinfectant will kill COVID its just that killing the host is a side affect.


----------



## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> killing the host is a side affect.



Sign me up.


----------



## linnethsilv (Jul 29, 2020)

Dr here, hydroxycloroquine does not work period, it raises mortality rates and does nothing to help, i see my patients die left and right, everything is under investigation as there are no guide lines, you can do whatever you want use the treatment that you most see fit, most cases resolve without problem, the problem is with those that develop mild and severe pneumonia due to the cytoquine storm, recommendations stop drinking soda, stop eating junk food, stop smoking and do exercise to get your body mass index below 30.

any questions?


----------



## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 29, 2020)

linnethsilv said:


> Dr here, hydroxycloroquine does not work period, it raises mortality rates and does nothing to help, i see my patients die left and right, everything is under investigation as there are no guide lines, you can do whatever you want use the treatment that you most see fit, most cases resolve without problem



Thank you for weighing in with your experience! However, I think in a thread where people are pulling testimonials and research articles, your comment reads anecdotal. Which definitely has its worth but not so much when there are so many other examples in the thread of doctors having contradictory experiences.



linnethsilv said:


> the problem is with those that develop mild and severe pneumonia due to the cytoquine storm, recommendations stop drinking soda, stop eating junk food, stop smoking and do exercise to get your body mass index below 30.



I thought the argument for HCQ IS the cytokine storm. Since the cytokine storm is an extreme immune response and HCQ is an immunosuppressive.

(btw u spelled cytokine wrong)


----------



## MFDC12 (Jul 29, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm no antivaxxer, but when a vaccine for the Coronavirus is released, I _will_ be waiting at least a month before getting it. Stuff like that needs to be tested.



I may have had it already, but I am still worried about reinfection since we don't know enough about it so I'll get it anyways - but yeah I'm actually with you, I think I'd still wait a month or two as well. I told my job I am going to continue WFH until I feel safe because I have a condition that gives me a weakened immune system.



weatMod said:


> snip



120,000 people globally died from measles last year, what are you talking about? And even if they did, herd immunity is important for the kids who have weak immune systems because maybe your kids won't die from it but the kids with weak immune systems will have a much higher risk. Let's say they didn't cause deaths, measles/mumps/rubella still have long term damaging effects to the immune system.

The heavy metal content in vaccines is miniscule (MMR never had mercury or aluminum, fwiw) and not enough to cause neurological damage. I'll give you the swine flu vaccine, but I've read that it was correlation not causation. I trust doctors advice and peer reviewed studies myself.

I'm sorry to hear about your damage, though. Do you mind me asking what vaccine that caused it?

Let me ask you this, let's say smallpox somehow came back, would you and prevent your kids from getting the vaccine? What about polio?[/QUOTE]


----------



## aerios169 (Jul 29, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Thank You Doctor. I did not see your post till now.
> 
> Whats your opinion on all this false information? Why do you think they do it? What is their end goal?
> 
> ...


well in my contry people belive that  digital thermometer kills neurons, also belive that G5  transmit  the virus..... yeah is really stupid, but anyway i belive that people wants  a cure  even if it is false because they want to feel secure.  there is much anxiety, no one wants to die. 

At the moment there is not any  cure  or drug for COVID, please belive only on articles that come from WHO, CDC or Cocrane. Is really anoying that people only belive on videos from youtube, facebook with pseudoinformation.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Yes h+Z = no covid and if you take it you cant get covid.

These real doctors are working with no masks and arent getting sick.

Wake up people.

Trump Tweeted this shit back in March and people are barely getting wind of it now.


----------



## TimPV3 (Jul 30, 2020)

Ah yes, the doctors Breitbart flew in to spew a bunch of bullshit. Interesting that a PEDIATRICIAN in a strip mall is treating hundreds of Covid patients. Check out her other videos for totally real info on vaccines using alien DNA, and dreaming about sex with demons giving you ovarian cysts.


----------



## linnethsilv (Jul 30, 2020)

https://www.medscape.com/answers/25...reatment-of-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19

A retrospective analysis of data from patients hospitalized with confirmed COVID-19 infection in all US Veterans Health Administration medical centers between March 9, 2020, and April 11, 2020, has been published. Patients who had received hydroxychloroquine (HC) alone or with azithromycin (HC + AZ) as treatment in addition to standard supportive care were identified. A total of 368 patients were evaluated (HC n=97; HC + AZ n=113; no HC n=158). Death rates in the HC, HC + AZ, and no-HC groups were 27.8%, 22.1%, 11.4%, respectively. Rates of ventilation in the HC, HC + AZ, and no-HC groups were 13.3%, 6.9%, 14.1%, respectively. The authors concluded that they found no evidence that hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation and that the overall mortality rate was increased with hydroxychloroquine treatment. 

in simple terms it doesn't work, with dexamethasone and methylprednisolone there have been more improvements only  and exclusively with patients with the need of oxygen and or ventilation.

citoquina (spanish user).


----------



## aerios169 (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Yes h+Z = no covid and if you take it you cant get covid.
> 
> These real doctors are working with no masks and arent getting sick.
> 
> ...


dude i work on a hospital who atend  COVID ( CMN XXI) we use N95 mask, and special equip for that

my aunt is on the verge of death because she got sick of COVID......  while she was anttending people. i know 3 doctos that past away for this disease.  We are triying to fight this shit while  the patients doesnt take any friking menansure to keep healty


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

aerios169 said:


> dude i work on a hospital who atend  COVID ( CMN XXI) we use N95 mask, and special equip for that
> 
> my aunt is on the verge of death because she got sick of COVID......  while she was anttending people. i know 3 doctos that past away for this disease.  We are triying to fight this shit while  the patients doesnt take any friking menansure to keep healty



Yeah sucks how the goverment knows how to keep the people and doctors safe but are trying to surpress it.

Trump is trying to release the ban but the other side is fighting back - 2005 we knew about this HQ+Zinz combo

If anyone has anyone ill from this I suggest you get your hands on the real medicine

HQ 200MG twice weekly is the dose
Zinc is daily value

Good luck and don't fall for all these fake doctors.

Ive been researching this 30 years ladies and gentlemen!


----------



## linnethsilv (Jul 30, 2020)

aerios169 said:


> dude i work on a hospital who atend  COVID ( CMN XXI) we use N95 mask, and special equip for that
> 
> my aunt is on the verge of death because she got sick of COVID......  while she was anttending people. i know 3 doctos that past away for this disease.  We are triying to fight this shit while  the patients doesnt take any friking menansure to keep healty


sorry to hear that, best of wishes to your aunt.


----------



## aerios169 (Jul 30, 2020)

linnethsilv said:


> sorry to hear that, best of wishes to your aunt.


well i can´t do nothing, probably she will past away..... so please use  mouth cover,  there are the  principal sintoms of COVID

Cough in 50 percent
●Fever (subjective or >100.4°F/38°C) in 43 percent
●Myalgia in 36 percent
●Headache in 34 percent
●Dyspnea in 29 percent
●Sore throat in 20 percent
●Diarrhea in 19 percent
●Nausea/vomiting in 12 percent
●Loss of smell or taste, abdominal pain, and rhinorrhea in fewer than 10 percent each

so if  one  of  you have this syntoms please go to your medical carer ( could be 2 or more, but if you are in contact with some one who had COVID and have one of this syntoms go with your doctor) 

bibliogaphy : Uptodate 2020


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Yeah sucks how the goverment knows how to keep the people and doctors safe but are trying to surpress it.
> 
> Trump is trying to release the ban but the other side is fighting back - 2005 we knew about this HQ+Zinz combo
> 
> ...


I'd say nice satire, but this is 2020, so unfortunately you're just as likely to be dead serious and an absolute nutter.


----------



## saishowaguu2 (Jul 30, 2020)

weatMod said:


> nobody dies from those diseases anymore, i rather take my chances
> and no it's not just MMR    lots of other vaccines contain  neurotoxic   heavy metals  such as mercury and aluminum
> FDA is a joke it's a revolving door  ,   my parents and   their siblings had those diseases and didn't die
> vaccines are   an industry it's a business,  and like any other they  sell you lies to sell your toxic products
> ...



People still do die from those diseases. And the fact that those cases that do happen are very rare is largely in part to the availability of vaccines. We also know a lot more about those diseases now, so in some cases where people do get them, doctors are a bit better at handling the symptoms. That doesn't negate the efficacy of vaccines


----------



## PizzaBitez (Jul 30, 2020)

There has been no evidence to determine that it's effective in fighting the coronavirus!


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I'd say nice satire, but this is 2020, so unfortunately you're just as likely to be dead serious and an absolute nutter.



Double back and research what I've shared before saying anything people.  This information is 15 years + old!

The choice is yours people!

Let your loved ones die

or

Help your loved ones live!


This is all its about no name calling no disinformation just plain truth knowledge n facts.


People thought I was crazy 20 years ago when I was exposing the Child / Human trafficking - Look at them now starting to spread 20 year+ information.

God bless you all and especially the misinformed!


----------



## SG854 (Jul 30, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Hah, I wish. It's worse: he fucking WANTS controversy. I bet that if a renowned team had done serious research into hydroxycloroquine, methodologically and empirically tested out stuff and allowed for scientific peer reviews so they could absolutely claim that DID help against covid-19...then Trump would have ignored it and created some other controversy (offering state secrets...updating the constitution...basically anything a B-movie villain would come up with). From what I gathered on social media(1), he isn't exactly keen on defending his stance either.
> 
> EDIT: oops...I guess I was accidentally writing satire instead of sarcasm there...because the latest controversy (as of writing) is to remove US troops from Germany (thanks @ChibiMofo for the source). So this dumpster fired is already quelled by the next one.
> 
> (1): meaning: the tidbits that show him talking about the stuff...again


He's keeping people scrambling around with all this controversy. In a way he's smart at putting up distractions even though people claim he's dumb. Like 4D Chess. It's working and people are focusing on his controversies.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



aerios169 said:


> well i can´t do nothing, probably she will past away..... so please use  mouth cover,  there are the  principal sintoms of COVID
> 
> Cough in 50 percent
> ●Fever (subjective or >100.4°F/38°C) in 43 percent
> ...


Masks seem to have work for me. I work in a big factory with over 100s of people, and I haven't got covid yet after all these months. We social distance and disinfect everything. 

Basically in any other scenario it goes against distancing rules of more then 10 people and not to go into big crowds. But take proper precaution and even in this scenario you can prevent infection.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Double back and research what I've shared before saying anything people. This information is 15 years + old!


COVID-19 was discovered in the final months of 2019, ergo the name.  So you are a nutter after all, tsk.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> COVID-19 was discovered in the final months of 2019, ergo the name.  So you are a nutter after all, tsk.



HQ + Zinc was discovered (at least made public) in 2005 so look that up.  It helps with ALL health issues  including C19.  In fact if you take take correct dosages you can't get C19.  The elites got so scared they rushed to make fake HQ results stating it was toxic.  Well yeah when you give a human 2000 MG instead of 200MG - These studies have been redacted and deemed 100% FALSE.  If that's not enough for some of you then I guess see you on the other side.

Don't listen to me - Listen to the doctors coming forward tired of seeing fear and people dying.  Its to late, the real doctors are ratting on the failed corrupt medical system.  It's a snowball effect from here on out.

Cognitive dissonance and close minded people are our biggest hurdles - It's not hard to re-program yourselves

Many have been scammed and will continue to be scammed if you don't wake up and listen, research and execute!


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> HQ + Zinc was discovered (at least made public) in 2005 so look that up. It helps with ALL health issues including C19.


You might as well be trying to sell people on crystals and essential oils.  Nobody who has passed any middle school science class should still believe that "cure-alls" actually exist.


----------



## andeers (Jul 30, 2020)

'Doctors say it work'. I think that some doctors say it works, and the rest say it doesn't.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You might as well be trying to sell people on crystals and essential oils.  Nobody who has passed any middle school science class should still believe that "cure-alls" actually exist.



I'm not selling anything.

Just saving lives for years and will not stop until most are informed.

There is a reason you can buy HQ over the counter in other countries but not in the USA.

Couldn't be simpler folks.

All I can ask my fellow humans is do your research before anything!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



andeers said:


> 'Doctors say it work'. I think that some doctors say it works, and the rest say it doesn't.



Real doctors say it works

Fake doctors say it doesnt

You be the judge

Couldn't be any clearer - My favorite Color!


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> I'm not selling anything.


True, you're just a useful idiot for the people who are actually profiting from this shit.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> True, you're just a useful idiot for the people who are actually profiting from this shit.



How can you profit from something that isn't sold or can be easily bought - PFFT this guy has no clue and runs his mouth SAD

Your name calling and i'm dropping knowledge

Yeah its clear! - The sick ones that have died in front of my very own eyes had your exact attitude.  Hard to reprogram self I guess.

The best doctors in the world have already came forward a long time ago and shared this!


----------



## omgcat (Jul 30, 2020)

weatMod said:


> nobody dies from those diseases anymore, i rather take my chances
> and no it's not just MMR    lots of other vaccines contain  neurotoxic   heavy metals  such as mercury and aluminum
> FDA is a joke it's a revolving door  ,   my parents and   their siblings had those diseases and didn't die
> vaccines are   an industry it's a business,  and like any other they  sell you lies to sell your toxic products
> ...



Maaaaybe lets not trust the person who self admits to having neurological problems about stuff related to conspiracy theories.

they did a meta-study (study about other studies if you are confused) showing that vaccines do not cause autism. also the heavy metals claim is BS since we know that atomic composition does not equal function. like sodium chloride has chlorine atoms in it, therefor it is a toxin and shouldn't be consumed.


----------



## weatMod (Jul 30, 2020)

MFDC12 said:


> I may have had it already, but I am still worried about reinfection since we don't know enough about it so I'll get it anyways - but yeah I'm actually with you, I think I'd still wait a month or two as well. I told my job I am going to continue WFH until I feel safe because I have a condition that gives me a weakened immune system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

"120,000 people globally died from measles last year, what are you talking about?"

so 120k people out of a global population of 7.67 billion 
that is approximately 
0.001565 %
i still like those odds

the jenner vaccine is safe or at least it was in his time
the problem is with modern adjuvatns and preservatives not with immunology in general
and some vaccines only have those in the multi dose vials not in the single dose vials

I certainly will not be taking  any experimental mRNA COVID 19 vaccine that is for damn sure


You can say the amount is minuscule but no amount of  mercury is safe just like no amount  of lead is considered  safe ,and it is also the  cumulative effects you need to worry about as the schedule has  ballooned  from what it used to be.

My damage was not caused from a vaccine it was caused by Ciprofloxacin  .

the point is that the FDA is totally corrupt as is most of the  "science" peer reviewed or not everyone is subject to the  same political pressure and   everyone  has already been bought , don't listen to the lies of  "only ancedotal evidence"  they always try to  present this argument only when it suits them  but then will  act totally hypocritically if
 the argument is reversed 

they will always try and get away with  whatever they can  for as long as they can
 whether it is a vaccine or a drug like  ,  fluroquinolones ,  fen fen (heart attacks,   COX-2 inhibitor NSAID's (strokes, heart attacks, meningitis),PPI's( kidney  damage renal failure) ,statins (liver damage liver failure),   and on on it  goes or a chemical like Dupont's PTFE's PFOA's , they will  always try and  lie or conceal right up till the very  end

they tried to  deny   fluroquinolones were dangerous now they reversed a little bit but  they still hand them out like candy when  they should be completely banned unless it is  last resort life or death situation

this is the shit they still insist is "safe"




Spoiler



i took "cipro" for  diverticulitis in 2015 
beside giving me permanent tinnitus  , peripheral neuropathy   and frequent intracranial pressure and multiple chemical sensitivities 

the initial reaction was the worst  experience of my life and lasted month-years, after only taking the 2nd 500mg dose 
after the second dose my ears immediate started to ring intensely , i got an intense metallic taste in my mouth ,intense tachycardia ,my jaw locked up , i was shivering and had cold sweats  and  i had uncontrolled jerking like convulsions ,  i felt like i was being stabbed all over my hands and feet and like someone was  firing a blow torch on my face and arms and legs ,my head felt like it was in a vice and
it felt like i was being given a chemical lobotomy, like someone had just injected liquid  drain opener mixed with LSD and every other known hallucinogen and deliriant known to man directly into my brain and also meth.
   I really have no way of articulating how horrible it was, i was awake 24/7 for  over a month and nearly went insane
every time i tried to sleep it was like my head was being squeezed in vice ,the more i tried to sleep the tighter it felt  like it was being squeezed  and i could not control my brain  or my thoughts
 it was like that boat  scene  from Willy Wonka  being beamed into my brain and i couldn't stop it ,  i was cognitively fucked up i could not even   watch TV or a movie for months and that was just  passive activities 
i could not think, 

This went on for months
the 1st month i didn't sleep at all and had those same symptoms every night then for the next few months i could only sleep for like 15 minute a  night for the 2nd  month
and then  gradually more after but not more than  an hour and  half and not straight

for years after i wake up  with  my heart going  at like 150bpm   ,pressure headaches ,neuropathy like being stabbed in my hands and feet and or tingling numbness

for the most part the neuropathy went away  but i still get it  back sometimes ,the tinnitus never goes away though ,  sometimes the the metal taste comes back
all in all i was lucky compared to  other people (so far) ,  but the damage is permanent  life long and some people say you can still get more problems later in life such as 
Parkinson's,   ALS, MS , Alzheimer's  dementia  and other neurological problems or develop other problems related to  cartilage, joint issues tendon ruptures etc,  

most symptoms are gone or  come back not that frequently but the tinnitus is permanent
and if i can't eat anything with so much  as a speck as MSG or  any free glutamate or i will be awake for  day with the same symptoms  or at least i was up to two years out but i  have not had any since i figured out  that it was triggering me

I did tons of research and found out that it burns off your GABA receptors and puts you into a state   that is similar to benzodiazepine withdrawal 
the only thing that helped me was L theanine , helped me sleep a little  and with anxiety but it has some side effects,makes you feel like you have brain fog and a little headachy 

i was luck that i didn't get the more common musculoskeletal problem associated with fluroquinolone toxicity syndrome
like tendon ruptures , some people get  like 30  of them in the span of a year
the drug damages you at the DNA level and you can no longer produce collagen  some people get the tendon ruptures some people  get aortic dissections or aortic aneyerisms






just like  the vaccines that are so safe they have given blanket  immunity to the manufacturers  over any liability or prosecution
just like Monsanto  who has been given blanket immunity over any  glyphosate lawsuits from now till the end of time
they know  someday it  WILL come out  and be widely accepted by the public  that  their products cause cancer and death and they buy these blanket immunity protection laws for themselves  for a reason






It's nasty shit everything they peddle is nasty shit and   they will find out later look how many law suits there are for drugs that were "safe"
proton pump inhibitors that cause kidney damage or failure,  COX 2 inhibitor NSAID's that cause stroke heart attacks and meningitis , the list goes on and on
i know so many people who  died or were damaged from drugs they didn't  even really need  and half of them don't even realize it
even when you show them the law suits  they try and deny the condition was caused from their drug.

I know someone who had  an aortic aneurysm from taking fluroquinolones, showed then the lawsuits and the lawyers websites they still  don't listen 

and most of   these vaccines are just  not needed anymore just like the small pox or polio  vaccine is not needed anymore these diseases  are not  100% gone like smallpox but they have been virtually eliminated , they just need to continue making money because they are a business they DGAF about society only about money
you just said it yourself measles only  effects 0.001565 % of the global population

You think when COVID gets to that point they will not be saying it is gone? they are already trying to  say it is gone now so they can reopen the economies
more double standards and hypocrisy

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgcat said:


> Maaaaybe lets not trust the person who self admits to having neurological problems about stuff related to conspiracy theories.
> 
> they did a meta-study (study about other studies if you are confused) showing that vaccines do not cause autism. also the heavy metals claim is BS since we know that atomic composition does not equal function. like sodium chloride has chlorine atoms in it, therefor it is a toxin and shouldn't be consumed.


>studies can't be bought
 literally nothing i said was a "conspiracy theory"
and i have otic nerve damage (tinnitus) and peripheral neuropathy it has nothing to do with my cognitive abilities


----------



## comput3rus3r (Jul 30, 2020)

It works. The Bill Gates funded WHO doesn't want anybody to know how easily covid can be treated so they can sell a vaccine to the world.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://lbry.tv/@GeekforTruth:c/Ame...Wm-PI-d-xyFhE-fYqEm6Gmek1lWbST4mdBaXAo76dO28g

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


I've literally been arguing this stuff for years but people are so brainwashed to believe in the corrupt "peer review" system. I have 3 healthy kids that never been vaxxed yet I have to watch friends and family's kids be ill and they still don't want to admit it was the vaccines that made them ill. they'll blame everything else because it makes their ego feel better.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I even sent a link to this video where a top CDC Scientist admits that they committed fraud during a vaccine safety study as it relates to autism and this is how the admin of GBA temp responds to me.


----------



## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 30, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Maaaaybe lets not trust the person who self admits to having neurological problems about stuff related to conspiracy theories.



You can disagree but how about we not shame a guy for physical disabilities he has no control over?


----------



## omgcat (Jul 30, 2020)

cauliquackers said:


> You can disagree but how about we not shame a guy for physical disabilities he has no control over?


not physical, mental. you should be worried about peoples mental health when they tell you about it. you're arguing that we should trust a paranoid schizophrenic 100% because doing otherwise is unfair.


----------



## Deleted member 507653 (Jul 30, 2020)

omgcat said:


> not physical, mental. you should be worried about peoples mental health when they tell you about it. you're arguing that we should trust a paranoid schizophrenic 100% because doing otherwise is unfair.



"permanent neurological damage" == paranoid schizophrenic?

I guess your second lesson can be to not jump to unfair conclusions either. Paranoid schizophrenic isn't the only kind of mental health problem LMAO


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

It would be very effective if the virus was real. People who have had these "symptoms" have been successfully treated and recovered by this, but, do these symptoms correspond to Covid19?

I don't think so, because the virus does not seem to exist. Something is causing "some" of these deaths but the pandemic "deception" is not necessarily the reason.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

Y'know what, I rescind my previous statement.  Anybody who thinks Trump knows what he's talking about in regards to medicine, biology, or science in general: go ahead and take HCQ.  Wash it down with a fistful of Tide Pods and inject some lemon pledge too, just to be extra safe.

I guess it's past time for a bit of social Darwinism.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Y'know what, I rescind my previous statement.  Anybody who thinks Trump knows what he's talking about in regards to medicine, biology, or science in general: go ahead and take HCQ.  Wash it down with a fistful of Tide Pods and inject some lemon pledge too, just to be extra safe.



Americans are so obsessed with hating this Trump person, who I remember they LOVED in the eighties hahhaha when I was a kid, he was praised all over TV. How ridiculous is everything and how powerfull the brainwashing machine is.


----------



## SG854 (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Americans are so obsessed with hating this Trump person, who I remember they LOVED in the eighties hahhaha when I was a kid, he was praised all over TV. How ridiculous is everything and how powerfull the brainwashing machine is.


I don't know about being well loved and priased. Biff from Back to the Future was based on Trump.


----------



## weatMod (Jul 30, 2020)

comput3rus3r said:


> It works. The Bill Gates funded WHO doesn't want anybody to know how easily covid can be treated so they can sell a vaccine to the world.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


my dad had   it ,  he was hospitalized  for like 7 days
 after being there for like 3 days on O2 they gave  him the HCQ , AZ, ZINC and also IV ceftriaxone 
 he recovered quick but  i  still  do not really know if it has any efficacy 
i myself would not  take it if i got sick
 HCQ is basically chloroquine  and chloroquine is  basically synthetic quinine
  it can have some really nasty side effects some of them are similar to the effects from  the cipro that damaged me so i especially would not take  it
both cirpo and those anti-malarials  cholroquine , hydroxy chloroquine ,quinine  all can cause   permanent tinnitus,  (tinnitus really sucks trust me you do NOT want it) and retinopathy retinal detachment  AKA blindness ,  and the anti-malarials can cause deafness too

also  both choroquine/hydroxychloroquine  and  azithromycin can cause prolonged QT syndrome 

I think i rather risk the covid than the side effects of  anti-malarials.

I also know a few people who had COVID who were given convalescent  plasma / immunoglobulin therapy and  recovered .

my auto body guy had it bad was on a vent for weeks and recovered and he has serious underlying conditions  he had leukemia and is remission and he  came through and went right back to work after , not sure if they gave him the HCQ protocols but if they did it didn't work and they gave him the convalescent plasma last 

i would take my chances with the immunoglobulin first before i took  those heavy drugs


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Americans are so obsessed with hating this Trump person, who I remember they LOVED in the eighties hahhaha when I was a kid, he was praised all over TV.


The bootlickers who praised Trump and other billionaires for no other reason than being rich in the 80s still do the same thing today.  Believe or not though, all 330 million Americans don't share the same political and economic beliefs, and there were also plenty of people who hated that yuppie piece of shit from the moment he stepped into the public spotlight.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Y'know what, I rescind my previous statement.  Anybody who thinks Trump knows what he's talking about in regards to medicine, biology, or science in general: go ahead and take HCQ.  Wash it down with a fistful of Tide Pods and inject some lemon pledge too, just to be extra safe.
> 
> I guess it's past time for a bit of social Darwinism.



Trump & the Alliance is the only reason you are breathing now, how ironic.  Wait until you guys know whats really up.

Elites are done and pedophilia arrests are going down worldwide as I type.  Game Over = Deep State = Deep Shit.

Tesla's vision is coming into fruition ladies and gentlemen weather some are ready for it or not it doesn't matter.

1. Children
2. Politicians
3. Media

Trump doesn't need money so the Elites couldnt buy him - Wonder why they never tried to impeach OBAMA - Name any other president calling the MSM news fake....I'll wait......

This was foretold decades ago and is happening exactly in the order it was foretold. 

Guess we have to wait for the MSM (Mainstream Media) Take Back for the rest to wake up, sadly.

Nessera / Gessera act will come next in full swing and not these breadcrumbs.

This has been in planning since the 50's - WW3 has been going on in the shadows ever since.

Quit being distracted and see for yourself with your own research!


----------



## Seliph (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Elites are done and pedophilia arrests are going down worldwide as I type. Game Over = Deep State = Deep Shit.



Are you talking about Qanon stuff? Eek


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Trump & the Alliance is the only reason you are breathing now, how ironic.  Wait until you guys know whats really up.
> 
> Elites are done and pedophilia arrests are going down worldwide as I type.  Game Over = Deep State = Deep Shit.
> 
> ...



I hope you are right, but sadly evil has always been allowed to endure. But I am READY to see these motherfuckers go, not only to jell, but to hell too! Some devils are running free on Gbatemp too though hahhhaha

But so it is freedom, and this freedom is being lost these days, BUT even evil men, should fight for it...


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Elites are done and pedophilia arrests are going down worldwide as I type.


Uh-huh.  That's why Trump was just recently praising Ghislane Maxwell and wishing her well, right?  In real life there are no fairy tale endings.  The pedos become president and claim to be above the law instead of paying for their crimes.



Seliph said:


> Are you talking about Qanon stuff? Eek


Yes, yes he is.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Are you talking about Qanon stuff? Eek



I'm talking about 30 years of reasearch b4 Q or anons bud.

I follow nobody or a movement just truth.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Uh-huh.  That's why Trump was just recently praising Ghislane Maxwell and wishing her well, right?  In real life there are no fairy tale endings.  The pedos become president and claim to be above the law instead of paying for their crimes.
> 
> 
> Yes, yes he is.



Trump is the ONLY reason shes in there LOL

You really need to research b4 saying anything else bud.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Trump is the very reason shes in there LOL


Trump's the reason Epstein got suicided before he could testify, and he's the reason the same is likely to happen to Maxwell.  Dude has always been pretty open about his pedophilia.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trump's the reason Epstein got suicided before he could testify, and he's the reason the same is likely to happen to Maxwell.  Dude has always been pretty open about his pedophilia.



Epstein quote

"Trump was the only one that tried to help me"

Straight from his mouth before they moved him or killed him.

Your following the disinformation LOL its ok most are.

Trump infiltrated the Elites and now they are going down 1 by 1!


----------



## SG854 (Jul 30, 2020)

Epstien took some hydroxychloroquine. That's why he's no longer with us anymore.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Epstein quote
> 
> "Trump was the only one that tried to help me"
> 
> Straight from his mouth before they moved him or killed him.


Help to drop all charges and let him walk away scot-free, maybe.  Pedos in high places gotta watch out for their own.

The federal prison where Epstein got offed was under Bill Barr's supervision.  Barr does whatever the fuck Trump tells him to.  All of one degree of separation there.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 30, 2020)

As someone in the frontlines and someone that talks to doctors on a daily basis i can atleast tell this much:

It can be used in some instances as an attempt to try to treat the virus.

its NOT some miracle "cure all" drug and its just but one of MANY meds that are being tried. The fact that the media and Trump are humping the leg both Promoting it and Knocking it is farking stupid.

has it worked in some cases: yes but its not for everyone

is it a bullshit snake oil miracle cure?: NO. everyone humping that train of thought is nuts.

is it one medication in a battery of an array of treatments to help people and can it help during certain circumstances?: yes.

can it do more harm than good in some situations? yes.

there. NUANCE.

should trump be promoting it as the "GOTO" med? NO. he is not a doctor. he needs to shut up on that one.

is there "A CURE? or "A Treatment" that is proven to consistently be effective? no.

Remdesivir has proven to help shorten hospital stays but it can hardly be counted as a cure.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Epstein quote
> 
> "Trump was the only one that tried to help me"
> 
> ...



I like you modderfokker hahhhaha great name too  

Yes, most are brainwashed to the max. Tell me, what do you know about this fake pandemic, last I knew was that the WHO was using a PCR filled with exosomes and then calling it the Virus. Which being so generic percentage wise would give you about 40% people with the virus, if tested. Which has been the case in my country, perfectly so.

The truth is so clear, yet the blinds want to believe the lie. Still, any other updates? Cheers from a place near the antartic


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> I like you modderfokker hahhhaha great name too
> 
> Yes, most are brainwashed to the max. Tell me, what do you know about this fake pandemic, last I knew was that the WHO was using a PCR filled with exosomes and then calling it the Virus. Which being so generic percentage wise would give you about 40% people with the virus, if tested. Which has been the case in my country, perfectly so.
> 
> The truth is so clear, yet the blinds want to believe the lie. Still, any other updates? Cheers from a place near the antartic



This is all about the elction becuase if the elites lose this time they lose their little game thats been going on for a very very long time.

Demoncrats want mail in voting so they can rig election.

Only way trump wins again is with real ballot voting.

Ever wonder why the cv19 lockdown ends 1-2 days before election?

Wonder why states were lying about % and now showing real %'s and over 70% off in some states?

Wonder why they are paying families and doctors to put cv19 on death certificates?

Wonder why swabs that never touched humans are testing + for cv19?

Wonder why people are more scared of CV19 when other things kill way more people?

Wonder why states in need of help are turning away the FED

Think Think Think people!


----------



## weatMod (Jul 30, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Epstien took some hydroxychloroquine. That's why he's no longer with us anymore.


but he is not dead
there is no way in hell they would take the risk of killing him ,because of 3 simple words
 DEAD MANS SWITCH
 imagine someone is blackmailing you and has .mp4's of you  banging 8yo's
this person is a  a billionaire and into computers
are you really going to  take  the  risk that they do not have those vids uploaded to hundreds of servers all around the globe set to be mass  emailed if the timer is not periodically reset ?
he was extracted from that cell ,  that is why the cameras just happened to fail

conversely imagine you are the blackmailer or at least the   person put in charge of gathering the blackmail material for the  nation state employing you , you are tasked with gathering blackmail material on some of the worlds richest most powerful people who could have you rubbed out in a NY minute and who would have you rubbed out  in a  NY minute if they knew what you were up to , 
would you not have   an insurance policy , such as a dead mans switch  to protect you not just against your marks but also against the state employing you who also might have motive to rub you out for simply knowing too much?
multiple copies multiple switches multiple redundancies ,  you would be paranoid AF i would say and have many many insurance plans in place


----------



## Seliph (Jul 30, 2020)

Help I can't find the "self destruct this thread please for the love of god" button


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

weatMod said:


> but he is not dead
> there is no way in hell they would take the risk of killing him ,because of 3 simple words
> DEAD MANS SWITCH
> imagine someone is blackmailing you and has .mp4's of you  banging 8yo's
> ...



I would say yeah hes alive -

New york Sherriffs bust gave them frazzle drip and:
Hilary mack = Weinstein
Weinstein = Epstein
Epstein = Maxwell
Maxwell = Game Over

There will be 1 final push from the Elites that are left but its to late for them!

Sorry if I spelled any names wrong - modding Switch Lites and replying LOL


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Yes, most are brainwashed to the max. Tell me, what do you know about this fake pandemic, last I knew was that the WHO was using a PCR filled with exosomes and then calling it the Virus. Which being so generic percentage wise would give you about 40% people with the virus, if tested. Which has been the case in my country, perfectly so.



yep... everyone at my workplace is imagining things and there is no such thing as real sick people flooding the place during certain days to the point where a makeshift unit had to be made in the parking lot. yep Fake as no tomorrow.

SMH.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> yep... everyone at my workplace is imagining things and there is no such thing as real sick people flooding the place during certain days to the point where a makeshift unit had to be made in the parking lot. yep Fake as no tomorrow.
> 
> SMH.



Well when you dont treat sick people with the right medicine what do you expect?

The medical industry keeps you in an acidic state for a reason!

All my hospitals over here are EMPTY!

To this day I have not met or known anyone with C19.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> This is all about the elction becuase if the elites lose this time they lose their little game thats been going on for a very very long time.
> 
> Demoncrats want mail in voting so they can rig election.
> 
> ...



Well, I just told you why, the virus is fake. That's why people prove positive when not even having symptoms. The WHO has the perfect setup, because they are using a simple PCR sample from the the chinese guy who supposedly had the virus. No gold standard was ever done.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Well, I just told you why, the virus is fake. That's why people prove positive when not even having symptoms. The WHO has the perfect setup, because they are using a simple PCR sample from the the chinese guy who supposedly had the virus. No gold standard was ever done.




Obama = Caught
Biden = Caught
Bill = Caught
Hillary = Caught
Who = Caught
Churches = Caught
Hollywood = Caught

Game Over!


----------



## SG854 (Jul 30, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> As someone in the frontlines and someone that talks to doctors on a daily basis i can atleast tell this much:
> 
> It can be used in some instances as an attempt to try to treat the virus.
> 
> ...


There's two people in this thread claiming to be in the medical field but your text, from a non doctor, is probably the best information on this because of the nuance. Granted you did get it from actual doctors. This explains the studies that do give positive results in some cases.

Trump coming out with these claims and linking that video will probably get people to go to a different out of network doctors not covered in their insurance for a second or third opinion. But I wonder how many of those doctors are actually good doctors? There's doctors in the video claiming that its a miracle drug, so doctors like this that treat people exist. So people will flock to them for some life saving miracle, thinking that doctors that don't see it as a miracle drug aren't good doctors at treating this virus.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

SG854 said:


> There's two people in this thread claiming to be in the medical field but your text, from a non doctor, is probably the best information on this because of the nuance. Granted you did get it from actual doctors. This explains the studies that do give positive results in some cases.
> 
> Trump coming out with these claims and linking that video will probably get people to go to a different out of network doctors not covered in their insurance for a second or third opinion. But I wonder how many of those doctors are actually good doctors? There's doctors in the video claiming that its a miracle drug, so doctors like this that treat people exist. So people will flock to them for some life saving miracle, thinking that doctors that don't see it as a miracle drug aren't good doctors at treating this.



If I did something 350 times and it worked everytime well yunno....

Paid doctors will be against it

There have been doctors caught for prescribing Chemo therapy to non cancer patients just to ge the kick back $ - These types of doctors will be against it of course.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> yep... everyone at my workplace is imagining things and there is no such thing as real sick people flooding the place during certain days to the point where a makeshift unit had to be made in the parking lot. yep Fake as no tomorrow.
> 
> SMH.



Sadly you could be lying. I have never seen what you say you have seen. Only stupid people who "think" they have the fake virus with panic attacks and others that suppossedly have the virus who die from other illness at very old ages.

If you work at this place, please show me a microscopic sample of this virus. I am not kidding, or at least a video of someone dying out of breath. I have not being able to find this anywhere, just WORDS


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Well when you dont treat sick people with the right medicine what do you expect?
> 
> The medical industry keeps you in an acidic state for a reason!
> 
> ...



I see dozens of them on a daily basis. you should consider yourself lucky. severe cases are not a pretty sight.



nashismo said:


> Sadly you could be lying. I have never seen what you say you have seen. Only stupid people who "think" they have the fake virus with panic attacks and others that suppossedly have the virus who die from other illness at very old ages.



There are a few people in this site that know me at a far more personal level and know im telling the truth (as to what i do for a living). however I am not going to be revealing personally idenitifiable information to someone who is quite likely trolling me. however, your point stands.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> I see dozens of them on a daily basis. you should consider yourself lucky. severe cases are not a pretty sight.



My daughters are nurses and all they have been seeing is kids coming in in the hundreds if not thousands all fucked up and out of nowhere and all being escorted by military - Some are horrific some are minor.  

This is the real [email protected]


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> My daughters are nurses and all they have been seeing is kids coming in in the hundreds if not thousands all fucked up and out of nowhere and all being escorted by military


ICE is at it again, eh?  SMH.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> ICE is at it again, eh?  SMH.



Ice is def a part of it as head of border patrol just resigned - 2 Judges recently arrested gave them up!

Head of homeland security just resigned.

CPS is caught.

Catholic church caught.

Its a huge network and most couldn't fathom it being true.

8 Million kids missing every year in the world and people are worried about a virus with super low mortality rate.

Makes no sense just like the toilet paper debacle!


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> I see dozens of them on a daily basis. you should consider yourself lucky. severe cases are not a pretty sight.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a few people in this site that know me at a far more personal level and know im telling the truth (as to what i do for a living). however I am not going to be revealing personally idenitifiable information to someone who is quite likely trolling me. however, your point stands.



Questioning things and being curious and searching for the truth is not trolling, is a human need. If you have any evidence of what you say, please share, I am not into what I WANT to believe, I just search for the truth.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> 8 Million kids missing every year in the world and people are worried about a virus with super low mortality rate.


If only America cared about _anything_ else as much as it has cared about short-term corporate profitability for the last 40 years, amirite?

152,000 dead and climbing.  That's 51 9/11s in casualties.  Even if Trump orders his cult to start burning history books, we're never ever gonna live this failure down.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 30, 2020)

there is nothing for me to provide. plenty of


nashismo said:


> Questioning things and being curious and searching for the truth is not trolling, is a human need. If you have any evidence of what you say, please share, I am not into what I WANT to believe, I just search for the truth.


you know there are laws that prevent people that work in places of healthcare to cite specific data linked to people (or even generalized samples) right?
again tho, I am not here to convince you. I am just stating what is. take it for what you will.
maybe in your country its not an issue. and if you are not scared or worried about what is happening you should volunteer at your local hospital. there are shortages worldwide of people doing volunteer work due to what is currently happening. you want to give something in return to sick people, there is your chance.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> If only America cared about _anything_ else as much as it has cared about short-term corporate profitability for the last 40 years, amirite?
> 
> 152,000 dead and climbing.  That's 51 9/11s in casualties.  Even if Trump orders his cult to start burning history books, we're never ever gonna live this failure down.



With the sample the WHO is using, which at least in my country's capital proved 40% of those tested, positive. Then my friend, 152.000 is very little.

Why you people cannot see this, why do you promote the lie? All these people have died from other illnesses and the test is completely hacked.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WD_GASTER2 said:


> there is nothing for me to provide. plenty of
> 
> you know there are laws that prevent people that work in places of healthcare to cite specific data linked to people (or even generalized samples) right?
> again tho, I am not here to convince you. I am just stating what is. take it for what you will.
> maybe in your country its not an issue. and if you are not scared or worried about what is happening you should volunteer at your local hospital. there are shortages worldwide of people doing volunteer work due to what is currently happening. you want to give something in return to sick people, there is your chance.



What a joke you are. Not buying your bullshit, honestly, this is true, I can smell the bullshit from miles and miles away. You simply don't have anything to show, because it is FAKE


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> If only America cared about _anything_ else as much as it has cared about short-term corporate profitability for the last 40 years, amirite?
> 
> 152,000 dead and climbing.  That's 51 9/11s in casualties.  Even if Trump orders his cult to start burning history books, we're never ever gonna live this failure down.



This is all being done by the same people that did 9-11 - There's a video coming out real soon of them planning 9/11 - Mark my words!

Your quoting MSM #'s?

I'm done.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Your quoting MSM #'s LOL
> 
> I'm done.


It's not the "MSM #s," these are numbers reported by individual states and hospitals.  Which don't even include the people who die of COVID at home.  If you add those in, we're well over 200,000 dead in the US already.

I _almost _feel bad for you and nashismo.  You'll take anything you read on 4chan at face value but outright reject data from any higher institution or subject matter expert.  All just to maintain your pathetically limited worldview and avoid squaring up with the often-chaotic reality we live in.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It's not the "MSM #s," these are numbers reported by individual states and hospitals.  Which don't even include the people who die of COVID at home.  If you add those in, we're well over 200,000 dead in the US already.
> 
> I _almost _feel bad for you and nashismo.  You'll take anything you read on 4chan at face value but outright reject data from any higher institution or subject matter expert.  All just to maintain your pathetically limited worldview and avoid squaring up with the often-chaotic reality we live in.



I feel honored that you mention me hahhaha, and yet you avoid and disregard everything I have said. Do you even know what I am saying? 4chan, what is that? Last I heard it was a loli/pedo site, but maybe not, sorry for my ignorance on that regard.

I do not have evidence of Covid19 even existing, and I am NOT kidding. There is a health phenomenon happening in this world, but the pandemic according to the WHO sample I have, is completely hacked because it does not SHOW any virus!


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It's not the "MSM #s," these are numbers reported by individual states and hospitals.  Which don't even include the people who die of COVID at home.  If you add those in, we're well over 200,000 dead in the US already.
> 
> I _almost _feel bad for you and nashismo.  You'll take anything you read on 4chan at face value but outright reject data from any higher institution or subject matter expert.  All just to maintain your pathetically limited worldview and avoid squaring up with the often-chaotic reality we live in.



States are compromised and owned by the MSM agenda so spare the BS

The highest institutions just told you HQ+Zinc work yet your against it?  Yale doctors, 36+ years Harvard doctors etc.  They are risking their own lives to give people the truth!

Your the one trying to sidestep the real pandemic = Child and Human Sex Trafficking - If you want to live in your bubble and not research and keep quoting MSM then go ahead but you my friend are blinded by the program.

Example:

W.h.o says wear a mask they work

Trump say nothing against it and follows protocol

Months later as we get closer to election Trump asks w.h.o - Do masks work and they say yes

Trump says ok then we don't need mail in voting since masks work and people can walk in vote

W.h.o immediately changes their stances on masks and says they don't work

Is anyone else following this stupidity!!??  These people are idiots and its amazing they were even running anything.  Trump let all states expose themselves.  This is happening on all levels!

THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE ELECTION

OPEN YOUR FUCKEN EYES PEOPLE!


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> 4chan, what is that? Last I heard it was a loli/pedo site, but maybe not, sorry for my ignorance on that regard.


Partially that, partially a haven for conspiracy theorists.



nashismo said:


> I do not have evidence of Covid19 even existing, and I am NOT kidding


Other than all the readily-accessible footage of ICUs full of very sick people and refrigerated trucks full of corpses, right?  And doctors and health experts from every nation discussing the discovery of, and research about, this new virus?



ModderFokker619 said:


> States are compromised and owned by the MSM agenda


So both liberal and conservative states are in on it?  The fuck even is the "MSM agenda," exactly?  Fox and MSNBC are both mainstream news.  What motives do they supposedly share in common?

Hell, even Trump has never been dumb enough to outright call this virus or its death toll "fake."  He was opposed to mask-wearing for a while, but that was about it.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Partially that, partially a haven for conspiracy theorists.
> 
> 
> Other than all the readily-accessible footage of ICUs full of very sick people and refrigerated trucks full of corpses, right?  And doctors and health experts from every nation discussing the discovery of, and research about, this new virus?
> ...



I led you to water...The rest is up to you...Good Luck my brother!


----------



## deinonychus71 (Jul 30, 2020)

Here again a thread where people make world issues become a US issue.

Why can't they just stop being so self-centered.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> I led you to water...The rest is up to you...Good Luck my brother!


In other words, you can't answer any of the simple questions I asked there.  Gotcha.



deinonychus71 said:


> Here again a thread where people make world issues become a US issue.
> 
> Why can't they just stop being so self-centered.


Most of the world is handling this virus just fine.  I haven't seen any other world leaders propose taking unproven drugs to treat it or prevent contracting it, either.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> States are compromised and owned by the MSM agenda so spare the BS
> 
> The highest institutions just told you HQ+Zinc work yet your against it?  Yale doctors, 36+ years Harvard doctors etc.  They are risking their own lives to give people the truth!
> 
> ...



It is a war, this is my point of view from near the antartic modderfokker  Which is, the US of america is the country that leads, therefore, anything that happens there, all other countries, even if they don't like it, will be forced to follow.

THAT's why it seems your elections are so important. the fate of the WORLD is in these elections.

God help Trump, becuase I know for sure, he will let the truth out, about the virus and many other things, but only once he is sitted once again as the president.

This will be something to see.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> It is a war, this is my point of view from near the antartic modderfokker  Which is, the US of america is the country that leads, therefore, anything that happens there, all other countries, even if they don't like it, will be forced to follow.
> 
> THAT's why it seems your elections are so important. the fate of the WORLD is in these elections.
> 
> ...



If all goes as planned Jan 2021 MSM will be the peoples again then all will see it.

Shit most don't even know about the Jan 2020 Secret Military Tribunals that ain't so secret.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> In other words, you can't answer any of the simple questions I asked there.  Gotcha.
> 
> 
> Most of the world is handling this virus just fine.  I haven't seen any other world leaders propose taking unproven drugs to treat it or prevent contracting it, either.



Your comment says it all bud.  Beating a dead horse is tiring.  Gotcha.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> THAT's why it seems your elections are so important. the fate of the WORLD is in these elections.
> 
> God help Trump, becuase I know for sure, he will let the truth out, about the virus and many other things, but only once he is sitted once again as the president.


So even in your fantasy world, Trump is the bad guy holding the fate of the world hostage to ensure he gets reelected and doesn't have to face prosecution for his many crimes?  How utterly insane.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Partially that, partially a haven for conspiracy theorists.
> 
> 
> Other than all the readily-accessible footage of ICUs full of very sick people and refrigerated trucks full of corpses, right?  And doctors and health experts from every nation discussing the discovery of, and research about, this new virus?
> ...



Doctors are all bought out by the WHO, or do you think they could keep practicing medicine otherwise? And refrigerators full of corpses. Mmm have you ever seen these corpses? No, the virus is soooo contagious NO ONE is allowed to see that! All I have seen is some pictures with empty coffins, sorry.

Also, sick people on ER rooms in hospitals! Really! I have NEVER heard of that before! oh sorry, now I remembered, since I was a kid, these rooms have always been filled to the brimm.

I am been very sincere here, in my city, there has never been such little amount of sick people in the Hospital. And this Hospital is where everyone in the region comes for treatment.


----------



## drgnslayers (Jul 30, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Doctors Claim Hydroxychloroquine is a cure and prevention for Covid-19. Along with azithromycin or doxycycline, and zinc.
> 
> Doctors says the WHO (World Health Organization) claims Hydroxychloroquine is not effective because of the studies that gave too much &/or treated at wrong times. But in right amount and treated at the right time is a cure for Covid-19. They say its very safe to take.
> 
> ...



it has been proven that Hydroxychloroquine is more harmful than helpful. Even the FDA cautions people against the use of Hydroxychloroquine. Remdesivir is more effective than Hydroxychloroquine. Never forget that Donald Trump is a real estate tycoon, not a doctor… and a drug addict on Adderalls

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...oroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Doctors are all bought out by the WHO, or do you think they could keep practicing medicine otherwise?


Trump withdrew the US from the WHO quite a while back, and we've never required WHO certification in order to grant doctorates to qualified individuals anyway.  You're talking out your ass.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> So even in your fantasy world, Trump is the bad guy holding the fate of the world hostage to ensure he gets reelected and doesn't have to face prosecution for his many crimes?  How utterly insane.



I'm back

Wrong

Trump is exposing the pedophilia in all of the so called goverments of the world.  This is a worldwide coordinated military strategic plan.

Why do you think they tried the russia / impeachment.

He said no to them - You cant buy someone who doesnt need or want more $ometimes.

You guys need to understand this is something that was formed and has been trying way before Trump.

The white hats have control - Game Over and what we are seeing is the residual of these nasty fucks being played out on humanity.

Theres a new king and the = MSM has said nothing
Federal reserve raided and taken back. We are on  silver and gold = MSM said nothing
Huge pedophilia rings being busted in Hollywood and worlwide = MSM Nothing


RESEARCH!

Patterns patterns patterns

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



drgnslayers said:


> it has been proven that Hydroxychloroquine is more harmful than helpful. Even the FDA cautions people against the use of Hydroxychloroquine. Remdesivir is more effective than Hydroxychloroquine. Never forget that Donald Trump is a real estate tycoon, not a doctor… and a drug addict on Adderalls
> 
> https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...oroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or



Fake studies redacted

High dosage is toxic and is documented - They tried and failed AGAIN

Low dose is the key 200mg 2wice weekly

I'm no expert but if I tried this on 350 people and all 350 people are good now & even better than before the illness well then.....

No matter what there will always be Haters, Doubters and liars.  Its up to you to save yourself!


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Trump is exposing the pedophilia in all of the so called goverments of the world.


Supposedly.  And in secret...for some reason.  In public he's all about that pedo life.



ModderFokker619 said:


> Patterns patterns patterns


Yeah man, I've heard them triangle-swirls are pure EVIL!

...Seek help.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trump withdrew the US from the WHO quite a while back, and we've never required WHO certification in order to grant doctorates to qualified individuals anyway.  You're talking out your ass.



The WHO is known to be a sect. And maybe I am old on updates, but from what I have heard in my country, doctors have fear of the WHO, because they were able to dissallow them to keep practicing medicine. I would not be surprised if this was the case also in the USA.

NOW the WHO is losing grip on the USA, but that is too recent to even consider. And why do you think that was? 500 million dollars less to the WHO was a message from Trump, ala mafioso. Do you think Trump didn't have a reason for doing that? 

Sure he told the fools like you, that it was because the WHO handled the Virus badly. But that is just for the fools to hear, he sent the MESSAGE to the WHO because he knows the pandemic is a charade created and developed by the WHO themselves, real or not (covid19), the WHO is involved in all this bullshit.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Supposedly.  And in secret...for some reason.  In public he's all about that pedo life.
> 
> 
> Yeah man, I've heard them triangle-swirls are pure EVIL!
> ...



It's no secret if this information is public - Gotcha

Yeah pedo swirls are evil AF - Breadcrumbs of Pedos

Good luck with your Cognitive Dissonance and not bothering to research anything, quoting main stream media (Chuckles) and totally ignoring knowledge being dropped.

Take care fellow brothers and sisters.  Can't wait for the next few years and to be a part of the world shift is well PRICELESS>!


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

In summary, everything pro-Trump: obviously true.  Everything anti-Trump, even when he's on record contradicting himself: obviously conspiracy.  Got it.

Thank god nashismo can't vote in our elections and ModderFokker is in CA so his vote doesn't make any difference.  Idiocracy is tiring.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> In summary, everything pro-Trump: obviously true.  Everything anti-Trump, even when he's on record contradicting himself: obviously conspiracy.  Got it.
> 
> Thank god nashismo can't vote in our elections and ModderFokker is in CA so his vote doesn't make any difference.



Trump has already clinched 2020 BTW.

Alliance is making sure the corruption will end.

Don't worry most are on your level right now name calling and stuff without actually doubling back and researching.  I was taught long ago to not be like this and thank god for my teachers.

Come and talk some more later when you wont be able to deny the seed I just planted in your SUB


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> In summary, everything pro-Trump: obviously true.  Everything anti-Trump, even when he's on record contradicting himself: obviously conspiracy.  Got it.
> 
> Thank god nashismo can't vote in our elections and ModderFokker is in CA so his vote doesn't make any difference.  Idiocracy is tiring.



Is good you have this freedom to say all this crap, and I am glad, believe me. But if you keep chearing for evil, you will not have this freedom anymore, not even on the Internet.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Is good you have this freedom to say all this crap, and I am glad, believe me. But if you keep chearing for evil, you will not have this freedom anymore, not even on the Internet.



Yeah its like the ones holding Biden signs having NO CLUE what the fuck is really going on.

Information is powerful!


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Is good you have this freedom to say all this crap, and I am glad, believe me. But if you keep chearing for evil, you will not have this freedom anymore, not even on the Internet.


Believe me, I'm very aware of how close we are to losing this nation to fascist authoritarianism.  Trump has demonstrated that for all to see in Portland and other major cities recently.

Fuck anybody who tries to infringe on our first amendment rights or any of our other constitutional rights.  They will be met with force in retaliation if necessary.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Yeah its like the ones holding Biden signs having NO CLUE what the fuck is really going on.
> 
> Information is powerful!



I dont even know if you are a christian Modderfokker, but I just remembered something in the Bible that says something like this: "Por esto Dios les envía un poder engañoso, para que crean la mentira" For this God sends them a deceitful power, so they believe the lie" (Tesalonicenses 2:11 RVR1960)

I do not know if this part refers to this virus, but man, it is close, and it would separate the just from the wicked, sadly I have known many christians who also believe this lie, it is really sad to me.


----------



## SomeKindOfUsername (Jul 30, 2020)

*US*: "If only there were some way to deal with this thing."
*Other countries*: "There is! We have drastically lowered infection rates. All we had to do was lockdown for a few weeks and - "
*US*: "Oh well, I guess there's nothing left to do but down random pills and hope for the best."
*Other countries*: "...The solution is literally a Google search away. You can stop this in 4 to 6 weeks. Look at how well it's worked for places like Italy who was once believed to be hopeless, and it didn't involve chugging random unproven medicine. We know you're concerned about the economy but by not acting on this now you're actually making your economic future _worse _because -"
*US*: "Bottoms up!"


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

SomeKindOfUsername said:


> *US*: "If only there were some way to deal with this thing."
> *Other countries*: "There is! We have drastically lowered infection rates. All we had to do was lockdown for a few weeks and - "
> *US*: "Oh well, I guess there's nothing left to do but down random pills and hope for the best."
> *Other countries*: "...The solution is literally a Google search away. You can stop this in 4 to 6 weeks. Look at how well it's worked for places like Italy who was once believed to be hopeless. We know you're concerned about the economy but by not acting on this now you're actually making your economic future _worse _because -"
> *US*: "Bottoms up!"



Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

In my countr Chile the poor guys in the capital have been like 4 fu$#ing months in FULL quarantine, because these politicians are completely bought out to the socialists agendas, and YET the numbers are higher!

This is all fake and I have explained it, a few posts back. Is all for control, is sickening. And believe me, my country folks are stupid enough to even use the masks at home! Even driving cars! They are stupid to no end, and yet the virus keeps going up.

I am not making this up.


----------



## Seliph (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> In my countr Chile the poor guys in the capital have been like 4 fu$#ing months in FULL quarantine, because these politicians are completely bought out to the socialists agendas, and YET the numbers are higher!
> 
> ...


Odd that you say that because Vietnam is one of the countries that went into full quarantine and they have zero deaths, and hardly any cases. New Zealand has had only 22 deaths, South Korea has had only 300 deaths, Taiwan has had 7, I could list several more. Why have these countries had so few cases? Because they took proper precautions like wearing masks, and because these countries have actual good healthcare.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Odd that you say that because Vietnam is one of the countries that went into full quarantine and they have zero deaths, and hardly any cases. New Zealand has had only 22 deaths, South Korea has had only 300 deaths, Taiwan has had 7, I could list several more. Why have these countries had so few cases? Because they took proper precautions like wearing masks, and because these countries have actual good healthcare.


He also said a few posts back that there were "hardly any" sick people in his country's hospitals.  Odd how his anecdotal evidence keeps changing as necessary to support his inconsistent arguments.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 30, 2020)

Yeah if you listen to the very ones spreading the false info.

People forget the US is divided in 2. - (Actually 13 if you research and want to be technical)


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Odd that you say that because Vietnam is one of the countries that went into full quarantine and they have zero deaths, and hardly any cases. New Zealand has had only 22 deaths, South Korea has had only 300 deaths, Taiwan has had 7, I could list several more. Why have these countries had so few cases? Because they took proper precautions like wearing masks, and because these countries have actual good healthcare.



We have good healthcare, my city has one of the best hospitals in south america, do not understimate my country. This is political, the virus is maleable because the sample from the WHO is hacked.

So, it can be used to any countrie's politician/president advantage. They can lower or up the cases on will, according to the need of control. Didn't you know my country was RAVAGED by fires and terrorism last year? Like we had NEVER seen before in our history?

Why do you think the numbers are kept up here? To keep the demon hordes calm, that's why. This is all FAKE

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> He also said a few posts back that there were "hardly any" sick people in his country's hospitals.  Odd how his anecdotal evidence keeps changing as necessary to support his inconsistent arguments.



You funny bastard, I speak for the capital (high FAKE cases, were the hordes live). My city is near the antartic, in the very south (empty hospital I spoke of). But still what makes you believe that higher counted covid19 positives mean higher filled hospitals? This is FAKE, remember that word. There are huge numbers of "suppossed" (fake) covid19 positives quarintining at home according to my fake ass government anyways.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> This is FAKE, remember that word.


Same thing a bunch of high-profile idiots on Twitter were saying until someone close to them got infected.  Then they deleted their accounts to avoid the ridicule that was bound to follow.  I'm sure you wouldn't tell us if you or someone close to you got infected, but hopefully it would humble you a bit regardless.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Same thing a bunch of high-profile idiots on Twitter were saying until someone close to them got infected.  Then they deleted their accounts to avoid the ridicule that was bound to follow.  I'm sure you wouldn't tell us if you or someone close to you got infected, but hopefully it would humble you a bit regardless.



By that, I see you have not understand not even one word I have said. Fucking idiot, you are fucking ignorant idiot. 40% asshole! That was the percentage of people testing POSITIVE in my countries capital! Of the ones being TESTED

THIS IS BECAUSE THE SAMPLE BY THE WHO IS HACKED, MEANT TO BE LIKE THIS.

BECAUSE THE SAMPLE IS GENERIC

Just search for exosomes idiot, investigate.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> 40% asshole! That was the percentage of people testing POSITIVE in my countries capital! Of the ones being TESTED


Your point being?  The majority of those who get tested do so because they're experiencing symptoms.  Arizona has also had a number of days where the positivity rate was close to 40%.  With how infectious this virus is, it's well within the realm of plausibility.



nashismo said:


> THIS IS BECAUSE THE SAMPLE BY THE WHO IS HACKED, MEANT TO BE LIKE THIS.
> 
> BECAUSE THE SAMPLE IS GENERIC


ROFL you think there's a virus or disease out there that would test positive against every single other virus or disease?  Dumbest shit I've ever heard.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Your point being?  The majority of those who get tested do so because they're experiencing symptoms.  Arizona has also had a number of days where the positivity rate was close to 40%.  With how infectious this virus is, it's well within the realm of plausibility.
> 
> 
> ROFL you think there's a virus or disease out there that would test positive against every single other virus or disease?  Dumbest shit I've ever heard.



Fucking dumbass you didn't understand a word. I guess God has made some people deaf and blind. Scary stuff.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Fucking dumbass you didn't understand a word. I guess God has made some people deaf and blind. Scary stuff.


There's nothing to understand because there's nothing coherent about your conspiracy theory.  If COVID infection rates are means to "control unruly populations," why do some peaceful countries have high infection rates while some some chaotic ones have low infection rates?  Moreover, if WHO is pulling the strings behind all of this, how do you explain positive tests coming back from so many other local health authorities?  Most places are not sending their test samples to be processed by WHO, that would be extremely inefficient.

Occam's razor, friend.  Stop wasting your time with baseless nonsense.  Or just keep acting the fool and getting called out for it, I guess that's always an option too.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> There's nothing to understand because there's nothing coherent about your conspiracy theory.  If COVID infection rates are means to "control unruly populations," why do some peaceful countries have high infection rates while some some chaotic ones have low infection rates?  Moreover, if WHO is pulling the strings behind all of this, how do you explain positive tests coming back from so many other local health authorities?  Most places are not sending their test samples to be processed by WHO, that would be extremely inefficient.
> 
> Occam's razor, friend.  Stop wasting your time with baseless nonsense.  Or just keep acting the fool and getting called out for it, I guess that's always an option too.



I admire your relentlessness (if that is even word of course). But it is funny how you try to win your empty arguments, by calling me out ooohh poor me.

Do I have to explain you with beans? The sample the WHO gives ALL medical stuff in every country is the same, or do you think each country has done their own gold standard on the pneumonia phenomenon? Not that I know.

As I see, medical institutions are simply working with the sample given by the WHO, they use it to test against the sample they take. The PCR sample the WHO has is a sample filled with exosomes and does not show any virus or bacteria.

The problem here is simple, this genetic material sample can be very common and can be found in any person (similar match). EVEN if the sample was taken from a "pneumonia phenomenon covid19" patient, this "virus" DOES NOT show in this sample!

Even if it existed the sample used by the WHO and medical institutions DOES not work for anything but fooling the world. Do you get it now?

This info was shared more than 2 months ago by various doctors in the USA, search for a video on Youtube by Dr. Andre Kaufman.

If you watch that video, that lasts 45 minutes, very serious staff, you'll get it.

Now, sure, you dont HAVE TO believe this is the sample doctors are using to test against, but it would explain the ridiculous amount of cases and the many situation that don't add up, things that make no sense. Like people never having contact with anyone, and still getting the "supposed" virus. Or people with the symptoms but NO VIRUS!

Look, there may be something, but is not this pandemic, there is a pneumonia phenomenon happening, specially in cities like New York and even Ecuador. But it is not this fake virus.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> The problem here is simple, this genetic material sample can be very common and can be found in any person.


In which case positivity rates would be much closer to 100% across the board.



nashismo said:


> This info was shared more than 2 months ago by various doctors in the USA, search for a video on Youtube by Dr. Andre Kaufman.


Youtube is far from a reliable source of information.  This guy could have a doctorate in a completely unrelated field or have no doctorate at all and still claim to be reputable.



nashismo said:


> Look, there may be something, but is not this pandemic, there is a pneumonia phenomenon happening, specially in cities like New York and even Ecuador. But it is not this fake virus.


The question then becomes who benefits from saying it's one type of virus when it's really another?  And what difference does it really make if the infection rates and death rates are being reported correctly?  Should it not be taken seriously anyway?


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> In which case positivity rates would be much closer to 100% across the board.
> 
> 
> Youtube is far from a reliable source of information.  This guy could have a doctorate in a completely unrelated field or have no doctorate at all and still claim to be reputable.
> ...



To the first question, no, because, I mean you would have to see the microscopic sample. In it, there is a small amount of exsosomes and that´s pretty much it.

What are exosomes? We all generate exosomes, they are liberated by the cell when we are deintoxicating ourselves. Here is the deal, this PCR sample is done by pouring fluid into the lungs, then it is simply taken out, then filtered.

This sample is not deep at all and it is used to check for cases of Cancer. When the sample has an abundant/huge amount of exosomes in it, that means that "probably" the patient has lung cancer. Or, it could be that he had just quit drugs, or cigarettes, etc therefore, generating lots of exosomes.

The weird part is that the WHO has used this PCR test, that is used for cancer to take the base sample of Covid19. Then this sample, if you find it, it's in the video, just shows some exosomes, not a lot, within some genetic material, that's it. The shape of exosomes is oval like, and it is shown as such. Viruses are round, there is no virus in this sample.

With this a lot of people could share a sample such as this, as we all generate some exosomes because that is the natural thing to do, if we are super healthy, we shouldnt show much or any, if we are normal, probably we have some like on the covid19 sample, if we are quitting smoking we generate more, etc.

Also, no gold standard has been done to find this Virus, check on gold standard on Google please.

And yes you are right, this Andrew Kaufman has a doctorate in psicology, but has worked in the medical institutions for decades, and it is a doctor anyways.

Now it just depends if we believe in these doctors or not, as simple as that. I am been honest, I wish, but I have not been able to find the gold standard microscopic covid19 investigation papers anywhere.

I honestly WISH this virus was real, the problem is that there is a shadow of bullshit in all this.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 30, 2020)

nashismo said:


> I am been honest, I wish, but I have not been able to find the gold standard microscopic covid19 investigation papers anywhere.


Does this type of paper not require extensive studying of the virus and thorough knowledge of its inner-workings?  Is it really reasonable to expect something like this to be completed within eight months of the discovery of a brand new virus?


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Jul 30, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Here's a pretty long excerpt from this article that you should read:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Excerpt
> ...



This and it's could just be a placebo affect.


----------



## nashismo (Jul 30, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Does this type of paper not require extensive studying of the virus and thorough knowledge of its inner-workings?  Is it really reasonable to expect something like this to be completed within eight months of the discovery of a brand new virus?



Great question! I have heard exactly that before, and the answer has been that you need months to do this gold standard method, in order to "find" a virus/bacteria/etc

Because you need at least 8 subjects.

4 with clearly the symptoms, in this case lack of air, not being able to take oxygen, even though their lungs are working just fine! Check on Youtube a real doctor from ER in New York, I really wish I could find the link. He described this phenomenon, which not everyone had, but it was very strange (I found the video in my watch later on Youtube, but it was deleted by Youtube rules...).

And then 4 people with clearly no symptoms at all.

Then you do an exhaustive test on each of the first 4 patients and try to find something, a virus, a bacteria, anything that does not belong to the inner genetic material of the subject.

I have heard this can take quite some time. Then try to match these finding between the 4 first patients. And then do he same with the healthy 4 others.

It is a very very tedious work and long of a process, because you need to discard a lot of genetic information, etc and a BIG etc.

This takes months, and it takes also luck to actually find it, whatever that is causing the symptoms.

This is what I know of the process, but the PCR test is a very simple one in comparison (PCR test would never work to accurately "find" a virus).

I also found the video of Dr. Kaufman, if anyone wants a link to it, send a PM, if I make it public it will probably be DELETED


----------



## crimpshrine (Jul 30, 2020)

https://justthenews.com/politics-po...accuses-fauci-running-disinformation-campaign

This is from Dr Harvey Risch, a YALE epidemiologist.  Not some person with TDS.  Which several of you seem to have here.  This drug was being touted for months before Trump even mentioned it.

Another recent analysis:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#!

*Conclusion*
Although this is a retrospective analysis, results suggest that early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment of COVID-19 patients, with at least 3 days of HCQ-AZ lead to a significantly better clinical outcome and a faster viral load reduction than other treatments.

And another from India:

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...19-cases-say-docs-as-analysis-begins-6486049/

Dr Hussain told this newspaper, “There are conflicting studies about the use of HCQ. While initially the US studies rejected it and cited side-effects, European countries backed its prophylactic use. In Vadodara, it has shown positive results. We have been able to restrict cases in clusters. Nagarwada no longer has a huge number of cases. We haven’t seen any one developing side effects.”

Which again makes me question the FDA's methods.

This should NOT be political.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 6, 2020)

Another new one showing it helps, from Italy:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306007

the use of hydroxycholoroquine + azithromycin was associated with a 66% reduction in risk of death as compared to controls; the analysis also suggested a larger effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in patients with less severe COVID-19 disease (PO2/FiO2 > 300, interaction p-value<.0001). Our results are remarkably similar to those shown by Arshad et al.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

https://nypost.com/2020/08/08/nyc-councilman-credits-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-recovery/

*NYC Councilman Paul Vallone credits Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 recovery *

*A Democratic New York City Councilman says hydroxychloroquine saved his life after a near-fatal run-in with COVID-19 in March. *

*“I couldn’t breathe, very weak, couldn’t get out of bed. My doctor prescribed it. My pharmacy had it. Took it that day and within two to three days I was able to breathe,” Vallone told The Post. “Within a week I was back on my feet.”*


----------



## Zonark (Aug 8, 2020)

Is burning down a house with gasoline considered arson? (Your response is your answer) it’s more of a suppressant of symptoms than a cure kinda helps your body catch back up like how adrenaline shots heal overdosers


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> https://nypost.com/2020/08/08/nyc-councilman-credits-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-recovery/
> 
> *NYC Councilman Paul Vallone credits Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 recovery *
> 
> ...


Anecdotes are typically useless.


----------



## FanofFans (Aug 8, 2020)

Literally do any research on this. Of course it isn't.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Anecdotes are typically useless.



The anecdotes match the data from studies above I posted.  Italy, India, etc..

Will summarize for those just joining now.

Dr Harvey Risch, a YALE epidemiologist:
https://justthenews.com/politics-po...accuses-fauci-running-disinformation-campaign

Recent analysis:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#

India:
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...19-cases-say-docs-as-analysis-begins-6486049/

Italy:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306007


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> The anecdotes match the data from studies above I posted.  Italy, India, etc..


An anecdote demonstrates nothing, regardless of whether or not it comports with data.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> An anecdote demonstrates nothing, regardless of whether or not it comports with data.



Let me put it a different way then.  The article I posted above about NYC Councilman that ties HCQ to his recovery of Covid-19 reflects recent studies and feedback by an accredited epidemiologist and MULTIPLE positive studies on the effectiveness of the  HCQ combination.

While that one article on its own could be considered anecdotal, it reflects what doctors are finding.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Let me put it a different way then.  The article I posted above about NYC Councilman that ties HCQ to his recovery of Covid-19 reflects recent studies and feedback by an accredited epidemiologist and MULTIPLE positive studies on the effectiveness of the  HCQ combination.
> 
> While that one article on its own could be considered anecdotal, it reflects what doctors are finding.


The anecdote is 100% irrelevant, regardless of whether or not it comports with what you think your cherry-picked sources are saying. If we pretend all of your sources are correct (they're not), the anecdote does nothing to increase the likelihood that they're correct.

If you want to present cherry-picked evidence that demonstrates your preconceived notion that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against COVID-19, great, but the evidence is all that matters. Anecdotes that comport with evidence don't matter; only the evidence you're claiming the anecdote comports with matters.

Tl;dr, anecdotes are not evidence, regardless of what the actual evidence says.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The anecdote is 100% irrelevant, regardless of whether or not it comports with what you think your cherry-picked sources are saying. If we pretend all of your sources are correct (they're not), the anecdote does nothing to increase the likelihood that they're correct.
> 
> If you want to present cherry-picked evidence that demonstrates your preconceived notion that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against COVID-19, great, but the evidence is all that matters. Anecdotes that comport with evidence don't matter; only the evidence you're claiming the anecdote comports with matters.
> 
> Tl;dr, anecdotes are not evidence, regardless of what the actual evidence says.



It matches evidence.  And since this is a public forum where we are discussing "*Is hydroxycloroquine really efficient at treating covid-19?*" and this is not a science paper, I think you need to relax.

I never said it should stand on its own.  

You are the one that came into this thread saying it does not mean anything.  That's your opinion.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> It matches evidence.  And since this is a public forum where we are discussing "*Is hydroxycloroquine really efficient at treating covid-19?*" and this is not a science paper, I think you need to relax.
> 
> I never said it should stand on its own.
> 
> You are the one that came into this thread saying it does not mean anything.  That's your opinion.


It's basic epistemology, not my opinion, that Anecdote+Study is equally demonstrative of a claim as the Study by itself. That's all I am trying to teach you, but you seem to care more about arguing a particular position (that I'm not even arguing with you about) than actually learning about epistemology. I suggest putting your listening ears on.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It's basic epistemology, not my opinion, that Anecdote+Study is equally demonstrative of a claim as the Study by itself. That's all I am trying to teach you, but you seem to care more about arguing a particular position (that I'm not even arguing with you about) than actually learning about epistemology. I suggest putting your listening ears on.



Again, I never said it should stand on its own. (As direct evidence to HCQ + others being a life saver in regards to early Covid-19 treatment)

There is nothing wrong with me posting that a persons personal experience matches studies and accredited peoples comments on the subject that is being discussed in this thread.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Again, I never said it should stand on its own.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with me posting that a persons personal experience matches studies and accredited peoples comments on the subject that is being discussed in this thread.


There is something wrong with it if you are at all suggesting that the anecdote does anything at all to demonstrate the claim that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against COVID-19, vs. not posting the anecdote at all.

If that's not what you're doing, then no, I guess there's nothing wrong with it.

Tl;dr, if you're saying Anecdote+Studies > Studies, you are mistaken.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There is something wrong with it if you are at all suggesting that the anecdote does anything at all to demonstrate the claim that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against COVID-19, vs. not posting the anecdote at all.
> 
> If that's not what you're doing, then no, I guess there's nothing wrong with it.
> 
> Tl;dr, if you're saying Anecdote+Studies > Studies, you are mistaken.



How many times do I need to say it?

I never said it should stand on its own.   

The posting I made today.  I did not say, see guys this one link with his testimony proves HCQ works!

Does it reflect what other links I included that is based on studies and comments from accredited people?  Yes!

Me stating the above is not breaking some law, this is not some science paper write-up.  This is a public forum where we are discussing a subject.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> How many times do I need to say it?
> 
> I never said it should stand on its own.
> 
> ...


I never said that you said the anecdote should stand on its own. That has never been my point, and it makes me think you're not paying attention. As I said in my last post:


> if you're saying Anecdote+Studies > Studies, you are mistaken.


----------



## smf (Aug 8, 2020)

I personally wouldn't go anywhere near it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...-died-taking-hydroxychloroquine-COVID-19.html

If Trump wasn't a huge liar & had any knowledge about the drug other than having shares in the company that made it, then maybe I would be more willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

India seem to have given up on it https://indianexpress.com/article/i...e-hcq-in-treatment-of-covid-patients-6545236/


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I never said that you said the anecdote should stand on its own. That has never been my point, and it makes me think you're not paying attention. As I said in my last post:



OK, well carry on then. As I will. 

Studies and personal testimonies are OK to be posted in this thread.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> OK, well carry on then. As I will.
> 
> Studies and personal testimonies are OK to be posted in this thread.


Cherry-picked studies (at least some of which are flawed) and irrelevant anecdotes.


----------



## smf (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> OK, well carry on then. As I will.
> 
> Studies and personal testimonies are OK to be posted in this thread.



What is the point though? I don't think that anyone is going to read gbatemp for medical advice & realistically it's going to be years before there is any evidence worth debating.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

*


Lacius said:



			Cherry-picked studies (at least some of which are flawed) and irrelevant anecdotes. 

Click to expand...

*
*Until I see you refute scientifically any of the studies I posted or you post your credentials indicating you are an epidemiologist and have as much knowledge as Dr Harvey Risch (YALE epidemiologist)  Then I don't think you are adding anything at all.*

*I bet you are a blast at gatherings.*




--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

Sad that their finding had to come to this then this month:

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/08/hydroxychloroquine-an-open-letter

"Unfortunately, the political climate that has persisted has made any objective discussion about this drug impossible, and we are deeply saddened by this turn of events. Our goal as scientists has solely been to report validated findings and allow the science to speak for itself, regardless of political considerations. To that end, we have made the heartfelt decision to have no further comment about this outside the medical community – staying focused on our core mission in the interest of our patients, our community, and our commitment to clinical and academic integrity."


----------



## Lacius (Aug 8, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> *Until I see you refute scientifically any of the studies I posted or you post your credentials indicating you are an epidemiologist and have as much knowledge as Dr Harvey Risch (YALE epidemiologist)  Then I don't think you are adding anything at all.*


A few things.

Whether or not I have credentials is not at all demonstrative of anything (other than having credentials and having done what it takes to earn those credentials). All that matters is the evidence, so I don't know why you mentioned credentials as if it would demonstrate anything one way or another with regard to hydroxychloroquine.
Cherry-picking studies you think support your preconceived (perhaps politically-motivated) notion that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against COVID-19 is not a reasonable method of discerning the truth of a claim. In order to make the conclusion about hydroxychloroquine that you've made, you have to arbitrarily ignore the preponderance of evidence that shows hydroxychloroquine is both ineffective and potentially harmful, and you have to arbitrarily pick the evidence that fits with your biases. You have yet to articulate how you made the decision to discard the former and embrace the latter. As I mention below, the latter evidence seems to have flaws. There is also a lot less of the latter evidence. So, how did you make your decision with regard to which evidence to select? My hunch is you went with what supported your biases. Googling "studies that support hydroxychloroquine" and pasting what you find without tackling the larger context isn't particularly convincing, FYI.
When searching for information about Harvey Risch, it doesn't take long to find that, of the five studies he cites in support of hydroxychloroquine, none of them are randomized controlled trials. One of the five studies is the popularly discredited Raoult study. Two of the five studies have no corresponding data or publications. When you look at studies with the proper methodology, the overwhelming preponderance of evidence suggests hydroxychloroquine is not an effective treatment against COVID-19, and it suggests there are risks to using hydroxychloroquine.
I'm not arguing hydroxychloroquine definitely doesn't work. However, the preponderance of evidence as it exists right now suggests it does little, if anything, and it's not worth the risks. To argue otherwise is to ignore the preponderance of evidence and embrace a few contradictory studies that at least some have been demonstrated to be flawed.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 8, 2020)

Early Hydroxychloroquine Administration for Rapid Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Eradication 

https://icjournal.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3947/ic.2020.52.e43

Our findings suggest that patients confirmed of COVID-19 infection should be administrated HCQ as soon as possible.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 9, 2020)

http://www.francesoir.fr/opinions-e...ienne-sur-3-451-patients-confirme-lefficacite

An Italian study carried out on a group of more than 3,000 patients, hospitalized for Covid-19, concluded that "the use of hydroxycholoroquine is associated with a 30% reduction in mortality".

*FS: How many patients are affected by your study?*

LI: Our study (COVID-19 RISK and CORIST Collaboration Treatments) was carried out on a cohort of 3451 patients admitted to 33 clinical centers across Italy. This is a retrospective observational study.

*FS: What structures are involved in collecting clinical data on patients?*

LI: The study focused on 33 structures, among the most recognized and important in Italy: Gemelli, Humanitas, San Matteo di Pavia, San Donato, San Gerardo di Monza, Spallanzani, Cotugno di Napoli, Miulli di Acquaviva delle Fonti, Monzino . University of Napoli Federico II, Catania, Palermo, Cagliari, Chieti.

*FS: It's a study involving Italian hospital structures, from North to South. What conclusions did you reach?*

LI: We have seen a 30% decrease in the risk of death in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine. The inverse association of hydroxychloroquine with in-hospital mortality was particularly evident in patients with elevated C-reactive protein upon entry.

*FS: What do you mean by “they had a high level of C-reactive protein on entry”?*

LI: C-reactive protein is a marker of inflammation. Having a high level of C-reactive protein when entering the hospital means that the Sars-Covid II infection has caused a significant inflammatory response. We believe that HCQ acts on this very component of the disease rather than inhibiting viral replication.

*FS: What were the mortality rates in the hydroxychloroquine and control groups?*

LI: The mortality rate of patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was 8.9 / 1000 patients / day, the mortality rate of those not receiving hydroxychloroquine was 15.7 / 1000 patients / day. Treatment was started on the first day of admission in most clinical centers, at a dose of 400 mg once a day, for an average of 10 days. *76% of patients were on HCQ treatment* .

*FS: Did the drug have statistically significant side effects?*

LI: Our study did not collect information on adverse effects. However, the studies already published by the different centers participating in our study did not show significant cardiovascular clinical events, although there was an increase in the ECG QT. (sources: https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0167527320322233 and https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.120.048476 )


Funny how the FDA's report differs so much compared to numerous other positive studies out there world wide.  Especially regarding cardiac events.  If you look into the details on what the FDA determined this on, you had hospitals giving 3x the daily amount that has had success.  So yeah maybe there are adverse effects if you give someone way too much.  That's how drugs can work.  You have to figure out the middle ground and stay there.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 11, 2020)




----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 12, 2020)

A new piece from Harvey Risch - Professor of epidemiology at Yale

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...sk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous

*Hydroxychloroquine works in high-risk patients, and saying otherwise is dangerous*


Every randomized controlled trial to date that has looked at early outpatient treatment has involved low-risk patients, patients who are not generally treated. In these studies, so few untreated control patients have required hospitalization that significant differences were not found. There has been only one exception: In a study done in Spain with low-risk patients, a small number of high-risk nursing home patients were included. For those patients, the medications cut the risk of a bad outcome in half.

I reiterate: If doctors, including any of my Yale colleagues, tell you that scientific data show that hydroxychloroquine does not work in outpatients, they are revealing that they can’t tell the difference between low-risk patients who are not generally treated and high-risk patients who need to be treated as quickly as possible. Doctors who do not understand this difference should not be treating COVID-19 patients.

I can only speculate about the cause of the FDA’s recalcitrance. Hydroxychloroquine is an inexpensive, generic medication. Unlike certain profit-generating, patented medications, which have been promiscuously touted on the slimmest of evidence, hydroxychloroquine has no natural financial constituency. No one will get rich from it.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 13, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> A new piece from Harvey Risch - Professor of epidemiology at Yale
> 
> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...sk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous
> 
> ...


Harvey Risch is a partisan hack, and he's not an expert in infectious disease epidemiology.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 13, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Harvey Risch is a partisan hack, and he's not an expert in infectious disease epidemiology.



So is there something you claim from his newest article that is wrong? Care to share that?


----------



## CyrilCommando (Aug 13, 2020)

What a question to ask GBATemp.


----------



## GhostLatte (Aug 13, 2020)

Just remember that those who think it’s effective probably also inject themselves with bleach.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 13, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> Just remember that those who think it’s effective probably also inject themselves with bleach.



It is effective.

Recent analysis:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#

India:
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...19-cases-say-docs-as-analysis-begins-6486049/

Italy:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306007


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 14, 2020)

Another great website with a lot of data world wide related to treatment with hydroxychloroquine.

They note references and touch with links and documentation on pretty much every country using this that were and continue to successfully treat covid-19 with HCQ and in some cases the cocktail. (Zinc + antibiotic)

https://hcqtrial.com/

What I keep coming back to as I see all of this data, is how is this being used in so many places in the world without reflecting the alarming report we got from the FDA here.  

The FDA's report was basically, don't use it it seems to cause more problems and even death.

It just does not make any sense to me, other than like others have said to take these drugs it's like 20-30 bucks worth of meds.  Where as the other alternative treatments are 3K+


Like for example in Kazakhstan even their doctors have the need to justify the continued use of this based on the politicization that has been made over this all because Trump said it was good and people can't possibly let that be true:

This is from the end of June: 

Kazakhstan's leading infectious disease physician Dinagul Baesheva


She went on to say that given the risks and benefits hydroxychloroquine is used in a COVID-19 patient for five days. She insisted good results had been observed after the treatment with hydroxychloroquine. That is why, in her words, it is included in the medical protocol.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 14, 2020)

Seven different randomized scientific studies from five different sources which show no benefit in using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19, two of which measure its effectiveness against placebos:

New England Journal of Medicine

New England Journal of Medicine (2)

Annals of Internal Medicine

Clinical Infectious Diseases

Recovery

MedRxIV

MedRxIV (2)

Anecdotal evidence from individuals who may or may not have a financial interest in the sales of this drug, along with politically biased sources such as the Washington Examiner are one thing, but studies which properly follow the scientific method (and thus have results which can be reproduced) are entirely another.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 14, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> So is there something you claim from his newest article that is wrong? Care to share that?


Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


----------



## omgcat (Aug 14, 2020)

I'd abandon this thread, the creators are just sealioning.
*
"Sealioning* (also spelled *sea-lioning* and *sea lioning*) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of 'incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate' ". waaaaaay too much shift of goal posts and "but muh hypothetical". it's obvious the OP never intended on even thinking about shifting their opinion or worldview. it's just a thinly veiled attempt at pushing wedge issues to try to radicalize the forum.

hell the term "holocough" is 100% a red-flag.

Holocough: An anti-Semitic and racist term relating to the use of COVID-19 against Jewish people or immigrants in order to imitate the holocaust.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


That's what I figured LOL, thanks for your expertise with this.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Seven different randomized scientific studies from five different sources which show no benefit in using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19, two of which measure its effectiveness against placebos:
> 
> New England Journal of Medicine
> 
> ...



Interesting, but many more show a benefit that have been peer reviewed.  Especially for EARLY treatment.  Most negatives have been too late when treatment starts.  Which is Echoed by Harvey Risch - honored Yale epidemiologist

HCQ + the other drugs required total cost of treatment is around 30.00 the others are over 3K each for treatment.  So I could definitely see a financial interest for some in discrediting the treatment.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Aug 14, 2020)

What about this? Any conclusive news on if this actually works?
https://news.yahoo.com/rlf-100-aviptadil-clinical-trial-200000564.html


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 14, 2020)

omgcat said:


> I'd abandon this thread, the creators are just sealioning.
> *
> "Sealioning* (also spelled *sea-lioning* and *sea lioning*) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of 'incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate' ". waaaaaay too much shift of goal posts and "but muh hypothetical". it's obvious the OP never intended on even thinking about shifting their opinion or worldview. it's just a thinly veiled attempt at pushing wedge issues to try to radicalize the forum.
> 
> ...



Discussing an ongoing form of treatment that is still actively being used in many places in the world that is successful is not trolling.

None of the doctors commenting on the success of these drugs in their country are using terms you would find antisemitic or racist.

Recent analysis:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#

India:
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...19-cases-say-docs-as-analysis-begins-6486049/

Italy:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306007

Many other countries success has been documented on this site:

https://hcqtrial.com/

Harvey Risch - Multiple honors - Professor of epidemiology at Yale

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...sk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



The Real Jdbye said:


> What about this? Any conclusive news on if this actually works?
> https://news.yahoo.com/rlf-100-aviptadil-clinical-trial-200000564.html



I have not read much on that, one but it also looks good from that article.   Sounds like it blocks cytokines.  I am no doctor but have read that there are natural remedies that also help do that.  And it looks like this is a good drug for later symptoms that are most responsible for killing people with the virus.  Which is good.

I know that in many cases remdesivir is also used at least in the USA, but is considerably more expensive.  This might be one of the ones I have seen referenced that has positive results also.   It is probably included in the high cost category given it's age.

Actually it looks like it is, the inhaled version I read about:

*FDA grants inhaled use IND for RLF-100 (aviptadil) to treat patients with moderate and severe COVID-19 aiming to prevent progression to respiratory failure *


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2020)

This thread has derailed hard.



The new "normal" - A Human Zoo

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


>



The fake uni.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 14, 2020)

Boesy said:


> This thread has derailed hard.
> 
> 
> 
> The new "normal" - A Human Zoo




The only replies I see that indicate it derailing are responses like yours that are not sticking to the subject 

The original point to this thread, "Is Hydoxycloroquine really efficient at treading covid-19"

is still actively being discussed with recent evidence.  The virus is not over yet.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> The only replies I see that indicate it derailing are responses like yours that are not sticking to the subject
> 
> The original point to this thread, "Is Hydoxycloroquine really efficient at treading covid-19"
> 
> is still actively being discussed with recent evidence.  The virus is not over yet.


Really, is GBATemp the appropriate place to talk about politics or a cure for a virus? No, it's not. I guess they allow such threads for more traffic/views/users.

The most important thing is to be healthy and have a good immune system. Also, don't get paranoid over the media's scaremongering of the Corona (not the Mexican beer, of course).

God knows how many people _actually_ died from the virus than those numbers officially reported. Trump isn't very trustworthy, but I agree with him about the WHO.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 14, 2020)

Boesy said:


> Really, is GBATemp the appropriate place to talk about politics or a cure for a virus? No, it's not. I guess they allow such threads for more traffic/views/users.
> 
> The most important thing is to be healthy and have a good immune system. Also, don't get paranoid over the media's scaremongering of the Corona (not the Mexican beer, of course).
> 
> God knows how many people _actually_ died from the virus than those numbers officially reported. Trump isn't very trustworthy, but I agree with him about the WHO.



Not sure I get the "is this the appropriate place to talk about a cure for a virus"  

Someone created the thread to discuss the topic that you came into the thread saying it derailed on, when it had not.  Other than what you added.  It is still regarding HCQ, and how it is still being used within the world successfully to treat those with Covid-19.

Seems kind of hypocritical if you ask me.  Not sure why you would even want to post in this thread if you feel the way you do.  Unless it is to try to stir things up.

I do have to say I agree 100% with you in staying healthy and not taking the virus itself too seriously but nothing wrong with pointing out factual information.


----------



## omgcat (Aug 14, 2020)

Boesy said:


> Really, is GBATemp the appropriate place to talk about politics or a cure for a virus? No, it's not. I guess they allow such threads for more traffic/views/users.
> 
> The most important thing is to be healthy and have a good immune system. Also, don't get paranoid over the media's scaremongering of the Corona (not the Mexican beer, of course).
> 
> God knows how many people _actually_ died from the virus than those numbers officially reported. Trump isn't very trustworthy, but I agree with him about the WHO.



you can figure a great approximation by looking at excess death rates.

so far our excess deaths have reached over 200k in 7 months.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 14, 2020)

omgcat said:


> you can figure a great approximation by looking at excess death rates.
> 
> so far our excess deaths have reached over 200k in 7 months.


Excess deaths don't exist when the virus is unavoidable.


----------



## omgcat (Aug 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Excess deaths don't exist when the virus is unavoidable.



that statement is factually incorrect. this disease is avoidable. don't go to crowded areas, wear a mask, wash your hands.

here is everything you need to know about excess deaths, how they are counted, and why.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

excess deaths are an important metric as it shows the devastation caused by over-run ICU's and can illuminate counties and states that try to tamper with their data. looking at you Florida/Georgia. hell California had data transfer issues and it was found because the excess death metric wasn't in sync with California's stats.

here is a good visualization


----------



## Lacius (Aug 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Excess deaths don't exist when the virus is unavoidable.


The virus is not unavoidable.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The virus is not unavoidable.


Do you really believe that there will be unaffected people by the time the WHO admits that Hydroxychloroquine or Sputnik V works?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Do you really believe that there will be unaffected people by the time the WHO admits that Hydroxychloroquine or Sputnik V works?


Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work.

Physical distancing, mask-wearing, contact tracing, etc. can heavily reduce the risk of transmission. After a few weeks of these things, cases of infection should drop dramatically.


----------



## omgcat (Aug 14, 2020)

there are plenty of much better alternatives to hydroxy anyways. Dexamethasone and Thromboprophylactics are the new standard of care and have reduced severe COVID19 deaths by a significant margin. these drugs are MUCH cheaper across the board and highly available. there are also multiple monoclonal antibody treatment entering phase III right now. If you look back to 2015, the monoclonal antibody treatment for Ebola managed to take the risk of death from 70+% down to 5-10%. If our hospitals didn't have an updated treatment plan for this virus, our daily death rate would be 4X what it currently is right now.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work.
> 
> Physical distancing, mask-wearing, contact tracing, etc. can heavily reduce the risk of transmission. After a few weeks of these things, cases of infection should drop dramatically.


So fifteen days to flatten the curve and then we can go back to normal.
Guess what, that's what was supposed to happen, and instead we've been doing this crap for five months.


omgcat said:


> there are plenty of much better alternatives to hydroxy anyways. Dexamethasone and Thromboprophylactics are the new standard of care and have reduced severe COVID19 deaths by a significant margin. these drugs are MUCH cheaper across the board and highly available. there are also multiple monoclonal antibody treatment entering phase III right now. If you look back to 2015, the monoclonal antibody treatment for Ebola managed to take the risk of death from 70+% down to 5-10%. If our hospitals didn't have an updated treatment plan for this virus, our daily death rate would be 4X what it currently is right now.


So we have a cure and we're still doing this?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So fifteen days to flatten the curve and then we can go back to normal.
> Guess what, that's what was supposed to happen, and instead we've been doing this crap for five months.
> 
> So we have a cure and we're still doing this?


I'm unaware of any claims back in March that it was "fifteen days to flatten the curve and then go back to normal."


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I'm unaware of any claims back in March that it was "fifteen days to flatten the curve and then go back to normal."


That was the original idea. Then you people decided safety was more important than freedom.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> That was the original idea. Then you people decided safety was more important than freedom.


The idea that "15 days" was the original idea is laughable.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The idea that "15 days" was the original idea is laughable.


You said that just a few weeks was reasonable. Is two not "a few"?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You said that just a few weeks was reasonable. Is two not "a few"?



First, I mean a month or two of masks, physical distancing when possible, contact tracing, testing, etc.
Second, because of failures of the Trump administration, things like mandatory masks, testing, and contact tracing are more difficult.
Third, these things don't stop after a few weeks. My point was that infections should drop drastically if we did them for a few weeks, and viral spread is not an inevitability; it's a failure of leadership.
You keep talking about freedom, so here's my question I asked once, but I don't think you answered it: Do you think I should be required to wear clothes in public? If yes, how do you reconcile the inconsistency?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You keep talking about freedom, so here's my question I asked once, but I don't think you answered it: Do you think I should be required to wear clothes in public? If yes, how do you reconcile the inconsistency?


A pair of pants will not tug on your waist or damage your genitals. A mask _will_ tug on your ears and poke your eyes.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> A pair of pants will not tug on your waist or damage your genitals. A mask _will_ tug on your ears and poke your eyes.


What if I subjectively find pants, or clothes in general, uncomfortable?

Edit: if a mask is poking you in the eyes, you're doing it wrong. If it's actually painful, you're doing it wrong.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 15, 2020)

HCQuine + Zinc works = Game over

Helps with cancer and all kinds of other illness / diseases!

Big pharma is done!


----------



## Lacius (Aug 15, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> HCQuine + Zinc works = Game over
> 
> Helps with cancer and all kinds of other illness / diseases!
> 
> Big pharma is done!


There's no evidence it helps with COVID-19, and there's evidence it can actually make things worse.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> What if I subjectively find pants, or clothes in general, uncomfortable?


I've been there. Just find more comfortable clothes.
The problem with masks is that you're constantly breathing in it, and saliva and mucus can easily build up. In comparison, it's unlikely for you to wet your pants in public, much less crap them.


Lacius said:


> Edit: if a mask is poking you in the eyes, you're doing it wrong. If it's actually painful, you're doing it wrong.


Am I supposed to hang it on the inside of my ears and pull it below my nose?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Just find more comfortable clothes.


Just find a more comfortable mask.

Let me know when you've solved this freedom vs. the freedom of others contradiction. I don't envy your position.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There's no evidence it helps with COVID-19, and there's evidence it can actually make things worse.



There's a ton amount of evidence it works (If high level doctors isnt enough I don't know what is) - 5-10 min research will get you started.

Also the info stating it doesnt work =  Some have been redacted and who do you think did the studies?  Deep state = deep shit - HCQ can have negative affects if taken in high dosages - Tests did 2k MG and humans need 200mg.  This was done on purpose by the very people trying to keep this hush.

Like I said its game over just a matter of time.

Red pill incoming.

Trump card in full swing.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Let me know when you've solved this freedom vs. the freedom of others contradiction. I don't envy your position.


Let me know when you've solved this "destroy the Coronavirus at all costs" VS. "Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work well enough despite copious amounts of evidence" contradiction. It's up to the individual to not get themselves sick.


----------



## omgcat (Aug 15, 2020)

ModderFokker619 said:


> HCQuine + Zinc works = Game over
> 
> Helps with cancer and all kinds of other illness / diseases!
> 
> Big pharma is done!



dexamthasone is $.50 per patient, and Low-molecular-weight heparin is $3.29 a day. drugs that are already proven, have low side-effect risk, and cheap and readily available. hydroxy is around $37 a pill. you seem to be all about fighting big pharma, yet are pushing a less effective, more expensive, non-generic drug. talk about shilling my dude.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Let me know when you've solved this "destroy the Coronavirus at all costs" VS. "Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work well enough despite copious amounts of evidence" contradiction. It's up to the individual to not get themselves sick.


I never said at all costs. The preponderance of evidence suggests the drug doesn't work. It is not solely the responsibility of the individual to not get sick when it comes to combating a pandemic.

Your turn.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I never said at all costs. The preponderance of evidence suggests the drug doesn't work. It is not solely the responsibility of the individual to not get sick when it comes to combating a pandemic.
> 
> Your turn.


OMGcat has been listing off alternative cures.
If you're relying on strangers to do anything, you're screwed.


----------



## omgcat (Aug 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> OMGcat has been listing off alternative cures.
> If you're relying on strangers to do anything, you're screwed.



not cures, treatments. medicine really doesn't have cures, as nothing is ever 100% effective. just about everyone has the potential to get fucked by this disease in some capacity. treatments are getting better and more effective, but wearing a mask, washing your hands, and avoiding people are first line defenses that keep you out of the hospital. anyone who states that a medicine is 100% effective is selling snake oil. especially if they don't talk about risks and side-effects. dexa has side effects like swlling, increased apetite, and impaired wound healing or bone thinning. on the other hand hydroxy can easily cause blindness, kidney damage, and muscle damage.

when given the choice of choosing hydroxy or dexa/thromboprophylaxis any physician worth their salt would chose the latter, it is cheaper, not in short supply, and has extremely low risk of sever side-effects. plus physicians cannot receive kick-backs for dexa/TP as they are available as generics.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Aug 15, 2020)

omgcat said:


> not cures, treatments. medicine really doesn't have cures, as nothing is ever 100% effective. just about everyone has the potential to get fucked by this disease in some capacity. treatments are getting better and more effective, but wearing a mask, washing your hands, and avoiding people are first line defenses that keep you out of the hospital. anyone who states that a medicine is 100% effective is selling snake oil. especially if they don't talk about risks and side-effects. dexa has side effects like swlling, increased apetite, and impaired wound healing or bone thinning. on the other hand hydroxy can easily cause blindness, kidney damage, and muscle damage.
> 
> when given the choice of choosing hydroxy or dexa/thromboprophylaxis any physician worth their salt would chose the latter, it is cheaper, not in short supply, and has extremely low risk of sever side-effects. plus physicians cannot receive kick-backs for dexa/TP as they are available as generics.


You just admitted that Winnie the Flu can't be cured. Meaning we've been living in fear for no reason.


----------



## wartutor (Aug 15, 2020)

aerios169 said:


> *please belive only the words that said your medical carer. There are alot of miss information. I had to atent a child who drank acid because some one told that it can erradicate the virus*


Sounds like natural selection trying to get rid of the stupid but u intervened. If your dumb enough to drink acid maybe we should just let these dumb ass's go. One less idiot populating and reproducing in this world. I can 100% guarantee that injecting large amounts of bleach into your veins will prevent you from dying from covid 19. Now you will die from injecting said bleach but hey it does what i said it does and thats prevent you from dying from covid 19. If anyone is stupid enough to try it i can assure u i wont loose sleep over it and the world as a whole just got a little smarter. People are dumb. Its becoming more and more apparent.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 17, 2020)

Haven't been taking much part in this one, haven't seen the point. But you seen this one yet?

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study



> *DETROIT –* Treatment with hydroxychloroquine cut the death rate significantly in sick patients hospitalized with COVID-19 – and without heart-related side-effects, according to a new study published by Henry Ford Health System.
> 
> In a large-scale retrospective analysis of 2,541 patients hospitalized between March 10 and May 2, 2020 across the system’s six hospitals, the study found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine alone died compared to 26.4% not treated with hydroxychloroquine. None of the patients had documented serious heart abnormalities; however, patients were monitored for a heart condition routinely pointed to as a reason to avoid the drug as a treatment for COVID-19.





Also thought this was interesting. TV show from 2003 ... the writer said he used CDC literature for research.


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Haven't been taking much part in this one, haven't seen the point. But you seen this one yet?
> 
> https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study



They kinda hedge their bets a little......

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/08/hydroxychloroquine-an-open-letter

"The most well-accepted and definitive method to determine the efficacy of a treatment is a double-blind, randomized clinical trial. However, this type of study takes a long time to design, execute and analyze. Therefore, a whole scientific field exists in which scientists examine how a drug is working _in the real world_ to get as best an answer as they can as soon as possible. These types of studies can be done much more rapidly with data that is already available, usually from medical records.

*Like all observational research, these studies are very difficult to analyze and can never completely account for the biases inherent in how doctors make different decisions to treat different patients. Furthermore, it is not unusual that results from such studies vary in different populations and at different times, and no one study can ever be considered all by itself.*

Our promising Henry Ford treatment study should be considered as another important contribution to the other studies of hydroxychloroquine that describes what the authors found in our patient population. We – along with all doctors and scientists – eagerly support the need for randomized clinical trials."


What they are saying is that they can't rule out that Doctors may have chosen to give hydroxychloroquine only to people who they thought would survive, therefore it would look like it had an effect when it didn't.

This is huge. I bet the patients treated with hydroxychloroquine didn't die of from a bear attack either.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 19, 2020)

Pattern of SARS-CoV-2 infection among dependant elderly residents living in retirement homes in Marseille, France, March-June 2020. 

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Abstract-COVID-EHPAD.pdf

And I bet like many other studies have shown, if they were treated earlier, the success rate would increase.  Sounds like from the results there were those that may already had been at a secondary issue stage.

Results. Elderly residents were predominantly female (64.8%) with a mean age of 83 years old. SARS-CoV-2 detection in residents (226, 13.4%) was significantly higher than in staff members (87, 8.8%), with p=4.10-4. Of 226 infected residents, 37 (16.4%) were detected on a case-by-case basis because of COVID-19 symptoms and 189 (83.6%) were detected through mass screening; 84.0% had possible COVID-19 symptoms, including respiratory symptoms and signs (48.5%) and fever (47.2%); 118 (52.2%) patients received a course of oral hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (HCQ-AZ) for at least 3 days; and 47 (20.8%) died. In multivariate, death rate was positively associated with being male (31.5% vs. 13.4%, OR=4.33, p<10-4) and being older than 85 years (26.1% vs. 15.7%, OR=3.01, p=0.005)and negatively associated with being diagnosed through mass screening (16.9%, vs. 40.5%, OR=0.20, p<10-4) and receiving HCQ-AZ treatment for at least 3 days (14.4% vs. 27.8%, OR=0.41, p=0.017).


----------



## scroeffie1984 (Aug 19, 2020)

#SAVETHEKIDS


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 19, 2020)

*Hydroxychloroquine Safety Outcome within Approved Therapeutic Protocol for COVID-19 Outpatients in Saudi Arabia*

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.16.20175752v1

Again, I think the FDA got it wrong in the USA.  No other country that uses HCQ seems to reflect FDA results when they put a stop on using it here in the USA.  I just really hope the FDA's finding or the data in the database they used for their recomendations is not another extent of TDS.  To be fair there is so much medical malpractice/error in this country every year it could be a combination of both.

From the above study, Saudi Arabia found:

In our study, results show that the use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 patients in mild to moderate cases in an outpatient setting, within the protocol recommendation and inclusion/exclusion criteria, is safe, highly tolerable, and with minimum side effects.


----------



## crimpshrine (Aug 22, 2020)

*A comprehensive strategy for the early treatment of COVID-19 with azithromycin/hydroxychloroquine and/or corticosteroids: results of a retrospective observational study in the French overseas department of Reunion Island*

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221371652030206X

Received 11 June 2020, Revised 22 July 2020, Accepted 1 August 2020, Available online 20 August 2020.
To appear in:Journal of Global Antimicrobial Resistance

Among the 10 patients admitted in ICU, hospital lengths of stay were 25 [15-35] days in the treated patients with hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin and 40 [25-55] days in the untreated patients (P=0.3).

*Hydroxychloroquine is protective to the heart, not Harmful: A systematic review*
Chadwick C.ProdromosMD

To appear in:New Microbes and New Infections
Received Date:24 June 2020
Revised Date:13 August 2020
Accepted Date:17 August 2020

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297520300998?via=ihub

*Results*
No Torsade de Pointes or related deaths were found to have been reported as a result of HCQ and azithromycin use in the peer reviewed literature. To the contrary HCQ/azithromycin were uniformly found to substantially reduce cardiac mortality and also to decrease thrombosis, arrhythmia and cholesterol in treated patients in recent peer reviewed studies and meeting presentations.

*Conclusions*
HCQ and azithromycin do not cause TDP cardiac mortality. HCQ decreases cardiac events. HCQ should not be restricted in use for COVID 19 patients because of fear of cardiac mortality.


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## Deleted User (Aug 26, 2020)

snipped


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## crimpshrine (Aug 26, 2020)

*Low-dose Hydroxychloroquine Therapy and Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19: A Nationwide Observational Study of 8075 Participants*

Impact of HCQ on mortality among 8075 patients with COVID-19 was assessed

•
Lower mortality in HCQ-treated patients as compared to supportive care

•
Lower mortality is irrespective of symptoms duration

*Conclusions*
Compared to supportive care only, low-dose HCQ monotherapy was independently associated with lower mortality in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 diagnosed and treated early or later after symptom onset.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*Use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised COVID-19 patients is associated with reduced mortality: Findings from the observational multicentre Italian CORIST study*

*Methods*
In a retrospective observational study, 3,451 unselected patients hospitalized in 33 clinical centers in Italy, from February 19, 2020 to May 23, 2020, with laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, were analyzed. The primary end-point in a time-to event analysis was in-hospital death, comparing patients who received HCQ with patients who did not. We used multivariable Cox proportional-hazards regression models with inverse probability for treatment weighting by propensity scores, with the addition of subgroup analyses.

*Conclusions*
HCQ use was associated with a 30% lower risk of death in COVID-19 hospitalized patients. Within the limits of an observational study and awaiting results from randomized controlled trials, these data do not discourage the use of HCQ in inpatients with COVID-19.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0953620520303356


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## crimpshrine (Aug 29, 2020)

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/meta-analyse-en-temps-reel-pour-hcq-mortalite-covid/


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 29, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/meta-analyse-en-temps-reel-pour-hcq-mortalite-covid/


Well, that didn't really help at all  Seems pretty inconclusive with a slight bias towards the positive.


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## crimpshrine (Aug 29, 2020)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Well, that didn't really help at all  Seems pretty inconclusive with a slight bias towards the positive.



Not reading the chart properly? LOL

The Green side shows help (.1 - 1) , the red side does NOT. (1 - 10)

It's pretty clear it helped more than not.


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 29, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Not reading the chart properly? LOL
> 
> The Green side shows help (.1 - 1) , the red side does NOT. (1 - 10)
> 
> It's pretty clear it helped more than not.


In some cases, but then in other cases it was more towards the red, so it's inconclusive at best.
The slight bias towards the green might just be coincidence.


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## crimpshrine (Aug 29, 2020)

The Real Jdbye said:


> In some cases, but then in other cases it was more towards the red, so it's inconclusive at best.
> The slight bias towards the green might just be coincidence.



Again I think you are reading the chart wrong there is MORE positive, than negative. Which also matches ALL other public studies up to this point.

Maybe charts are not for you.

Is this any better:






What this means from this gathering of data.  If you have Covid-19 and you are given HCQ there it is likely going to help in many cases. Obviously NOT all.  But there is no silver bullet.   All the results including this seem to show a 30% benefit or more overall.

This continues to reflect that.

And again contradicts the conclusions the US FDA came to.  They messed up.


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 29, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Again I think you are reading the chart wrong there is MORE positive, than negative. Which also matches ALL other public studies up to this point.
> 
> Maybe charts are not for you.
> 
> ...


The numbers just make no sense to me, the chart was the only thing that made sense 
What I mean is there are still quite a few studies that are biased towards the red. So that's what makes it inconclusive to me. It's not an universal "yes, it works"


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## Mythical (Aug 29, 2020)

ffs, why do you guys think injecting random shit into your veins helps. If anything the reason they feel better is because they're under constant hospital caer. I'm tired of these threads full of blatant misinformation being promoted by people who don't know how to find real case studies. Thread Blocked


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## crimpshrine (Aug 29, 2020)

Mythical said:


> ffs, why do you guys think injecting random shit into your veins helps. If anything the reason they feel better is because they're under constant hospital caer. I'm tired of these threads full of blatant misinformation being promoted by people who don't know how to find real case studies. Thread Blocked



LOL, It is clear based on the data that it works.  And that the US FDA was 100% wrong in their findings.

If  you want to ignore that, then fine that is your choice. 

No one is talking about injecting random shit into your veins.

Nothing that they have found so far is a silver bullet.

HCQ when given early in a person who will be in that category of developing secondary issues from Covid-19 that wind up killing them 100% there is a benefit.  It decreases chance of death and speeds up recovery time in this case.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



The Real Jdbye said:


> The numbers just make no sense to me, the chart was the only thing that made sense
> What I mean is there are still quite a few studies that are biased towards the red. So that's what makes it inconclusive to me. It's not an universal "yes, it works"



They have no way to my knowledge of knowing in advance who catches Covid-19 is going to be the type that goes on 10+ days later to develop secondary issues that lead to killing them.  Obviously they have an idea to who is more at risk of this occurring with,  but there have been occasions where people NOT in the "high risk" category have this occur - young people, etc..

What the data shows, is that given that there is no test to my knowledge to tell you in advance if you are likely going to have a secondary issue 15+ days into a Covid-19 infection.  There is benefit to giving HCQ early - ASAP, the data shows there are LESS deaths over all when it is used in this manner.  When you add up ALL the studies done so far that is clear.  You can't give it to this type of person AFTER the virus has already setup shop in their body for too long.  It has to be right away.

And that is why many countries continue to use HCQ and have NOT stopped.  Because it helps.

There are multiple tools in every toolbox, sometimes tools that overlap in what they can do.  The same thing happens I believe in the medical field, which is good because not everything is as tolerated well from person to person.  And if you can combine treatment types that can be even better.  LIKE HCQ + plasma for example.  I don't know if other counties are doing that but maybe those are two treatments that can be combine for example.

To write off one drug during this pandemic by the US is funny when much of the rest of the world continues to use it with great results, as all of the data shows.  Including the last study I posted.

And it also indicates we have issues within our medical systems and FDA in the US.

EVERY drug has people it does not work with, or side effects many times really BAD side effects.


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 29, 2020)

Mythical said:


> ffs, why do you guys think injecting random shit into your veins helps. If anything the reason they feel better is because they're under constant hospital caer. I'm tired of these threads full of blatant misinformation being promoted by people who don't know how to find real case studies. Thread Blocked


I think it's a matter of, if they can find some existing drug that treats it, they don't have to come up with a new one and spend months/years on testing it, since it's already been tested and deemed "safe" for humans, therefore they can have a treatment out to the general public in short order, since the drug has already been mass produced.
And time is kind of of the essence, so it only makes sense to first find out if there are any existing drugs that work.


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## notimp (Sep 1, 2020)

Yale university standpoint (watch the interview in the video, starting at 10:40):


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## Seliph (Sep 1, 2020)

Just gonna leave this here


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## crimpshrine (Sep 2, 2020)

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10067-020-05334-7

*COVID-19 and rheumatic autoimmune systemic diseases: report of a large Italian patients series*

Summary, immune-compromised patients in Italy were getting Covid-19 at a higher rate then the general population.  Those that had immune-compromised conditions did better that were taking HCQ. Their findings were that HCQ might play a protective role against Covid-19.

From study:

_• Covid-19 is more frequent in the subgroup of autoimmune systemic diseases patients *without *ongoing conventional synthetic disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs, mainly hydroxyl-chloroquine and methotrexate, which might play some protective role against the most harmful manifestations of Covid-19._


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## crimpshrine (Sep 3, 2020)

*COVID-19 mortality risk factors in older people in a long-term care center*

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-70219/v1/355eb86a-0b86-4bee-b6b3-1212593fd864.pdf

The study group comprised 100 COVID-19 confirmed cases with a mean age of 85 (IQR 65-103) years.
Sixty-two percent were female, and the average length of stay was 22 days. Fifty-two patients were
initially from the public nursing home, 36 came from other nursing homes, nine from home, and three
coming back from the hotel.

Eighty-three percent received pharmacological treatment, mostly with hydroxychloroquine and
azithromycin (70%) (Figure 2). Only five patients had diarrhea as a side effect related to
hydroxychloroquine. Cardiac monitoring was performed by electrocardiogram, and no rhythm changes
were observed with this treatment in any patient.


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## crimpshrine (Sep 9, 2020)

*Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as ACE2 blockers to inhibit viropexis of 2019-nCoV Spike pseudotyped virus*

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7467095/

*Purpose*
: The objective of this study is to investigate whether CQ and HCQ could be ACE2 blockers and used to inhibit 2019-nCoV virus infection.

*Methods*
: In our study, we used CCK-8 staining, flow cytometry and immunofluorescent staining to evaluate the toxicity and autophagy of CQ and HCQ, respectively, on ACE2 high-expressing HEK293T cells (ACE2h cells). We further analyzed the binding character of CQ and HCQ to ACE2 by molecular docking and surface plasmon resonance (SPR) assays, 2019-nCoV spike pseudotyped virus was also used to observe the viropexis effect of CQ and HCQ in ACE2h cells.

*Results*
: Results showed that HCQ is slightly more toxic to ACE2h cells than CQ. Both CQ and HCQ could bind to ACE2 with _KD_ =(7.31±0.62)e−7 M and (4.82±0.87)e−7 M, respectively. They exhibit equivalent suppression effect for the entrance of 2019-nCoV spike pseudotyped virus into ACE2h cells.

*Conclusions*
: CQ and HCQ both inhibit the entrance 2019-nCoV into cells by blocking the binding of the virus with ACE2. Our findings provide novel insights into the molecular mechanism of CQ and HCQ treatment effect on virus infection.


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## crimpshrine (Sep 15, 2020)

Mortality Risk Factors among Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients in a Major Referral Center in Iran

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tjem/252/1/252_73/_article/-char/ja/

Retrospective 396 patients in Iran 93% using HC Q, showing HC Q mortality RR 0.45, p = 0.028. HC Q was the only antiviral that showed a significant difference.


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## notimp (Sep 15, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Mortality Risk Factors among Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients in a Major Referral Center in Iran
> 
> https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tjem/252/1/252_73/_article/-char/ja/
> 
> Retrospective 396 patients in Iran 93% using HC Q, showing HC Q mortality RR 0.45, p = 0.028. HC Q was the only antiviral that showed a significant difference.


Wrong study linked? There is no reference to 0.028 in the entirety of the text.
edit: found it, its in the images (tables at the bottom)

edit: here is the real (statistical) lie in that statement:

Case fatality rate in that study was 14% after treatment. Case fatality rate in other countries (with better treatment and no HC Q) is 2%. Dang.. 

Poster says, but without HC Q case fatality rate in Iran would gave been 30%.
Thats great and all, but in the developed world, where it isnt, HC Q seems not to help to the same extent..  (because f.e. there are better treatments available).






https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid#the-case-fatality-rate


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## crimpshrine (Sep 15, 2020)

The Effect of Early Hydroxychloroquine-based Therapy in COVID-19 Patients in Ambulatory Care Settings: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study

Observational prospective 5,541 patients, adjusted HC Q mortality OR 0.36, p = 0.012, adjusted hospitalization OR 0.57, p < 0.001 (~
477,206 potential lives saved with global HC Q). Zinc supplementation was used in all cases. Early treatment in ambulatory fever clinics in Saudi Arabia.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.09.20184143v1

You have to view the PDF to see the full details. (Preview PDF button is listed in article)

CONCLUSION: Early intervention with HCQ - based  therapy  in  patients  with  mild  to
moderate symptoms at presentation is associated with lower adverse clinical outcomes among COVID-19 patients, including hospital admissions, ICU admission, and/or death


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## notimp (Sep 15, 2020)

medrxiv.org publishes preprints, meaning that study isnt peer reviewed yet, but this one does not have the issue the iranian study has. (Case mortality rate of about 1% vs 2% after treatment). But it has the issue of being saudi arabia. 

Data quality?

Part of the study says HC Q is so great, because you can send people home with it and dont have to hospitalize them (?!).



> The current study is an observational prospective cohort rather than an interventional trial. The decision to prescribe HCQ or not was purely at the providers discretion in agreement with the patients after assessing and discussing the risks and benefits of the therapy. Based on the best available evidence at the time, the Saudi Ministry of Health released a treatment guideline recommendation which listed HCQ as a treatment option in mild to moderate presentations of COVID-19.



edit: Also this:

Median age germany: 45.9 years
Median age saudi arabia: 30 years


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## crimpshrine (Sep 30, 2020)

Observational study 1064 hospitalized patients in the Netherlands, 53% reduced risk of transfer to the ICU for mechanical ventilation with HCQ treatment starting on the first day of admission.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220321755


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## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

corlateanualex341 said:


> Honestly, this is the first time I've heard about this, but I think it could be a breakthrough in the fight against covid.


Lol, we've got actual vaccines now.  The FDA hasn't even re-approved HCQ for treatment of COVID since they revoked its approval much earlier this year.


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## magicbob93 (Dec 13, 2020)

Some (and when I say some, I mean medical staff, scientists, etcetera) say it does work as premature treatment. Some say it doesnt.
This medicine in particular has been very politicized here in Brazil, so it's hard to know if it really works or not.

In my particular opinion, I prefer to wait a trustyworthy vaccine.


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## scroeffie1984 (Dec 13, 2020)

first dont atack me please ,but this whole corona thing is 1 big world wide scamm ,if you by now stil dont know what realy is going on ,than you are realy lost   this world is ruled by a satanic pedo cult ,they want to controll the whole planet ,fear is a powerfull and cheap weapon ,a television is nothing more than a mind control device there is even a patent on google / thats wy its called a tel a vision and on there are programs to program you !  dig and you find answers <coca cola tested positive for corona lol 
oh en the word virus comes from the latin 14e century and means poison off  a virus is not a bug that is somewhere to get you .they are a healthy thing .but hey what do i know 
much love


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## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

scroeffie1984 said:


> first dont atack me please ,but this whole corona thing is 1 big world wide scamm ,if you by now stil dont know what realy is going on ,than you are realy lost   this world is ruled by a satanic pedo cult ,they want to controll the whole planet ,fear is a powerfull and cheap weapon ,a television is nothing more than a mind control device there is even a patent on google / thats wy its called a tel a vision and on there are programs to program you !  dig and you find answers <coca cola tested positive for corona lol
> oh en the word virus comes from the latin 14e century and means poison off  a virus is not a bug that is somewhere to get you .they are a healthy thing .but hey what do i know
> much love


One part of me agrees with you. The other feels like this is sarcasm.


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