# Scene hacker Voksi arrested for cracking Denuvo, raided by police



## wurstpistole (Jul 25, 2018)

Phew.


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## Song of storms (Jul 25, 2018)

If they filed a complaint it means that they might have hacked the software by getting their hands on stolen code. That happens and yes, you deserve that if that was the case.

If he did everything by himself then I hope he wins the case.


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## temthereal (Jul 25, 2018)

he probably wouldn’t have had to gone through this if he had a decent vpn....


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## BlueFox gui (Jul 25, 2018)

if crackers come to brazil they don't have such problems :V


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## Alternis (Jul 25, 2018)

temthereal said:


> he probably wouldn’t have had to gone through this if he had a decent vpn....


I don't think that any vpn can help you if a government is chasing you


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## SkittleDash (Jul 25, 2018)

Bloody hell. You improve the security, not cry and file a suit on some guy that actually found a flaw in your code you lazy bastards.


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## Dimensional (Jul 25, 2018)

He would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those Meddling Script Kiddies and their dumb Doge.


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## DrayanoX (Jul 25, 2018)

Rip Voksi


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## Coto (Jul 25, 2018)

Well, they could just have hired the guy if the guy was brilliant. But also, how much harm did the guy caused? Did the guy crack credit cards or leaked stuff?


If he indeed DID leak sensitive data (personal info, credit cards), yeah totally. And this is why cracking stuff where sensitive data, such as bank accounts and such is kind of stepping on land mines. But if not, Denuvo is pulling a Sony from the PS3 era


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## FancyNintendoGamer567 (Jul 25, 2018)

Bullshit, instead of arresting crackers that *easily* crack Denuvo. Instead, focus on making a *good* DRM that won't make the game unplayable to some people, slows down the game by some amount, and works on OS X/Linux.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 25, 2018)

Fight for everlasting peace! Wait, wrong reference.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 25, 2018)

Denuvo and its parent company can burn in hell for all I care. Yes, I get why DRM is a thing, yes, I get why companies do it, to placate their teat-sucking investors, yadda yadda, but come on. Denuvo is bad and they should feel bad. DRM only makes legit users suffer, I'm glad there are cracks out there that circumvent DRM.


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## ItsKipz (Jul 25, 2018)

F to pay respects.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Coto said:


> Well, they could just have hired the guy if the guy was brilliant. But also, how much harm did the guy caused? Did the guy cracked credit cards or leaked stuff?
> 
> 
> If he indeed leaked sensitive data (personal info, credit cards), yeah totally. And this is why cracking stuff where sensitive data, such as bank accounts and such is kind of stepping on land mines. But if not, Denuvo is pulling a Sony from the PS3 era


>If he indeed leaked sensitive data (personal info, credit cards), yeah totally.

lmao what


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## FancyNintendoGamer567 (Jul 25, 2018)

Coto said:


> Well, they could just have hired the guy if the guy was brilliant. But also, how much harm did the guy caused? Did the guy crack credit cards or leaked stuff?
> 
> 
> If he indeed leaked sensitive data (personal info, credit cards), yeah totally. And this is why cracking stuff where sensitive data, such as bank accounts and such is kind of stepping on land mines. But if not, Denuvo is pulling a Sony from the PS3 era


 _sowwi wat_


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## the_randomizer (Jul 25, 2018)

I just want to know how he was even caught, should've used a lot of VPNs and other ways to gain anonymity.  Duck Fenuvo.


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## Nisem0n0 (Jul 25, 2018)

Denuvo is terrible regardless of whether you buy your games or not.  You know its fails as a DRM when even your legit purchasers don't like it


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## DarthDub (Jul 25, 2018)

You think this person is the only one cracking Denuvo? Hah. People will continue to crack it.


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## Coto (Jul 25, 2018)

ItsKipz said:


> F to pay respects.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...






FancyNintendoGamer567 said:


> _sowwi wat_




Hackers bypassing security in online platforms where sensitive data ends up being leaked, that happens a lot. But I think we need more context from both sides. Can you guys read


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## linuxares (Jul 25, 2018)

What? Being public about it and not hiding makes you a big target? Who would have thought?


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## FancyNintendoGamer567 (Jul 25, 2018)

I hate when companies do something like this, it's like they don't want to admit it's their fault the DRM is shit and act like doing this will make them look "better".


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## the_randomizer (Jul 25, 2018)

Coto said:


> Hackers bypassing security in online platforms where sensitive data ends up being leaked, that happens a lot. But I think we need more context from both sides. Can you guys read



it says nothing about leaked information in the OP. Only that he was a big name in cracking it.



FancyNintendoGamer567 said:


> I hate when companies do something like this, it's like they don't want to admit it's their fault the DRM is shit and act like doing this will make them look "better".



They only do it to placate their dumbass investors.


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## FancyNintendoGamer567 (Jul 25, 2018)

Was the cracker's name actually "Voksi" or was that his alias?


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## ItsKipz (Jul 25, 2018)

Coto said:


> Hackers bypassing security in online platforms where sensitive data ends up being leaked, that happens a lot. But I think we need more context from both sides. Can you guys read


Literally all this guy does is bypass DRM in games.


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## FancyNintendoGamer567 (Jul 25, 2018)

ItsKipz said:


> Literally all this guy does is bypass DRM in games.


Yea, the only way he could've got arrested if that he gotten personal info (somehow).


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## 0000ff (Jul 25, 2018)

_Oof. 
_
Hopefully he only gets a slap on the wrist .


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## Xzi (Jul 25, 2018)

This guy should have statues of him in his home town, not be in jail.  Fuck Denuvo.


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## MrJason005 (Jul 25, 2018)

wait, was this guy not anonymous? did he put his real name on his work?


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## the_randomizer (Jul 25, 2018)

ItsKipz said:


> Literally all this guy does is bypass DRM in games.



Which is illegal in some jurisdictions (Ha! Good luck enforcing that! DRM and Denuvo is for pantywaist developers.) methinks he had some kind of info or personal info that they got a hold of.

You want more customers? You want more legit users? Quit putting shitty DRM in your games. I can't wait for damage control.

"B..but I muhst protect muh games from piratez!"

Yeah? And if you want more legit users, don't alienate them. But come on, if you're gonna crack DRM, don't do it publicly.


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## dAVID_ (Jul 25, 2018)

Should've used private proxies and a VPN. 


ItsKipz said:


> F to pay respects.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



f


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## MrJason005 (Jul 25, 2018)

i'm not sure if VPNs and proxies are enough to hide from the cops, but if this guy put out his name out in the public and hid nothing then he should have seen it coming


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## Tenshi_Okami (Jul 25, 2018)

MrJason005 said:


> wait, was this guy not anonymous? did he put his real name on his work?


From what I understand, there has been interviews with him using his real name(this is what I saw in a Reddit post, so I'm taking it as a grain of salt).


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## ov3rkill (Jul 25, 2018)

Fuck Denuvo and its shitty DRM.

Anyway, here's an interesting tutorial by Voksi.


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## dAVID_ (Jul 25, 2018)

ov3rkill said:


> Fuck Denuvo and its shitty DRM.
> 
> Anyway, here's an interesting tutorial by Voksi.



I'll download it while its still up.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



dAVID_ said:


> I'll download it while its still up.


wait i didnt know it was that long


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## nWo (Jul 25, 2018)

His fall will only rally others.


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## ItsKipz (Jul 25, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Which is illegal in some jurisdictions (Ha! Good luck enforcing that! DRM and Denuvo is for pantywaist developers.) methinks he had some kind of info or personal info that they got a hold of.
> 
> You want more customers? You want more legit users? Quit putting shitty DRM in your games. I can't wait for damage control.
> 
> ...


Personal point for me - I don't buy any game that uses Denuvo. I don't do much piracy, and i always prefer to buy games legit, but if a dev / publisher doesn't want my money with anti-consumer practices? They don't get it.


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## Tenshi_Okami (Jul 25, 2018)

ov3rkill said:


> Fuck Denuvo and its shitty DRM.
> 
> Anyway, here's an interesting tutorial by Voksi.



Keep in mind this is for V4, most of the games using V4 or older have been already cracked, only one thats not yet been cracked is Handball 17(uses Denuvo V3)


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## Mark McDonut (Jul 25, 2018)

Well shit.

Looks like it's just steampunks and baldman now. Stay safe out there on the wire, my dudes.


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## JoeyMacCheese (Jul 25, 2018)

BlueFox gui said:


> if crackers come to brazil they don't have such problems :V


You'll get shot amidst a gang shootout instead


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## GhostLatte (Jul 25, 2018)

This guy should be recruited by government agencies or private companies so that his skills can be used, not being wasted while in prison.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 25, 2018)

Pirates whining about DRM is like bank robbers whining about vaults.


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## NeoSlyde (Jul 25, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Pirates whining about DRM is like bank robbers whining about vaults.


This is so wrong..


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## brickmii82 (Jul 25, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> This is so wrong..


What? Does common sense elude you? It wouldn't be there if people didn't pirate software, just like vaults wouldn't be there if people didn't steal. Are you gonna be the jackass that overanalyzes this and turns this thread into "bbbut muh piracies r victimlessss"?

Edit: Just to be clear I could care less about piracy. I don't think it really hurts anyone, but an investor is obligated to protect their investment if they feel there's a threat to it. Hence, DRM.


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## osaka35 (Jul 25, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Pirates whining about DRM is like bank robbers whining about vaults.


More like bank robbers whining about how the bank makes it far too difficult to get to their safety deposit box, so they rob the bank but only grab their own box from the bank.

I know I've personally bought a PC game, then used the pirated version because it ran better. But I don't want to support their DRM stupidity so I'm not sure what the best method is to convey my contempt for their methods.


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## nullvoid (Jul 25, 2018)

So they are throwing weight around,  is this even considered cybercrime in bulgaria?  
I suppose the distro of actual game binaries instead of patches could certainly be considered,  but it's Denuvo filing suit ...  <><'y
Write an anonymous tutorial and someone will pursue the cause...



Chary said:


> View attachment 137121​
> PC gamers should be familiar with the word Denuvo, the latest anti-piracy tech created in 2014 in order to prevent pirates from cracking PC games on release. For a while, it seemed that hacking teams were defeated, unable to crack the software which had gained notoriety for supposedly causing high levels of CPU and hard drive usage, making games run worse than normal. Then came along Voski, one of the first to reliably understand how Denuvo worked and be able to remove the software from pirated copies of games. He made a name for himself by cracking high profile games very shortly after launch, and gained popularity in the cracking scene. However, that streak appears to have ended today.
> 
> On July 25, Voski went radio silent on all communication, and then had the website to his hacking group, REVOLT, removed by the Bulgarian government. Later that day, Voski reappeared and claimed that police had raided his home, arresting him and taking away both his computers.
> ...


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## brickmii82 (Jul 25, 2018)

osaka35 said:


> More like bank robbers whining about how the bank makes it far too difficult to get to their safety deposit box, so they rob the bank but only grab their own box from the bank.
> 
> I know I've personally bought a PC game, then used the pirated version because it ran better. But I don't want to support their DRM stupidity so I'm not sure what the best method is to convey my contempt for their methods.


Yeah thats it, Totally makes sense 

Arent there about 6 billion other factors that can be considered when looking into a PC game running poorly? But yeah, blame Denuvo. Easy target that no one likes anyways, so they can play scapegoat. imo, people just don't like it because it does its job. Maybe there are some issues on a game to game basis, but I have no issues with my Denuvo games.


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## nullvoid (Jul 25, 2018)

DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> If they filed a complaint it means that they might have hacked the software by getting their hands on stolen code. That happens and yes, you deserve that if that was the case.
> 
> If he did everything by himself then I hope he wins the case.



Uh...  if you've been actually following : we all know this isn't the case ...   or he'd have a 'perfect' implementation.
They have been anything but,  tho he has done them rather well


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## BlueFox gui (Jul 25, 2018)

JoeyMacCheese said:


> You'll get shot amidst a gang shootout instead


just stay in home or live in the north lol


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## Song of storms (Jul 25, 2018)

nullvoid said:


> Uh...  if you've been actually following : we all know this isn't the case ...   or he'd have a 'perfect' implementation.
> They have been anything but,  tho he has done them rather well


He wouldn't have said it if he did or he'd have incriminated himself. I will wait until we know more.


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## hamohamo (Jul 25, 2018)

Can someone here tell me what law says it's illegal for him to do what he did?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 25, 2018)

Good on Denuvo for pursuing prominent legal action. -1 to this dillhole for getting caught. I mean, really... Of course, there has to be a reasonable explanation. Persecution of crackers isn't commonplace without legal grounds.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



hamohamo said:


> Can someone here tell me what law says it's illegal for him to do what he did?


I'd like to know for sure, as well. There has to be more to it than "you cracked our shit".


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## shadoom (Jul 26, 2018)

Anyone protecting denuvo probably has never tried playing older games with copyprotection. Playing legit securom, StarForce etc. Games usually require you nowadays to download a no-cd crack.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 26, 2018)

shadoom said:


> Anyone protecting denuvo probably has never tried playing older games with copyprotection. Playing legit securom, StarForce etc. Games usually require you nowadays to download a no-cd crack.


Nope, that's not the case. Securom, Star force (blah blah blah) and all DRM should be abolished. Doesn't make you right for cracking the game, though.


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## osaka35 (Jul 26, 2018)

hamohamo said:


> Can someone here tell me what law says it's illegal for him to do what he did?


I'm not sure what exactly they're suing him over, but I'd imagine it falls under the "they broke our lock and distributed it, thus impacting our sales" and "they distributed copyrighted content" (since I'm guessing he is also responsible for distributing the DRM-free stuff)


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## lampdemon (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Pirates whining about DRM is like bank robbers whining about vaults.


No, downloading a game is not the same as stealing cash or physical goods.



> people just don't like it because it does its job.



All the popular games that have denuvo have been cracked/bypassed.


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## comput3rus3r (Jul 26, 2018)

Where's the source?


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## lampdemon (Jul 26, 2018)

comput3rus3r said:


> Where's the source?


https://www.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/91t0b8/what_happened_to_revolt_and_me/


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## MeowMeowMeow (Jul 26, 2018)

FancyNintendoGamer567 said:


> Bullshit, instead of arresting crackers that *easily* crack Denuvo. Instead, focus on making a *good* DRM that won't make the game unplayable to some people, slows down the game by some amount, and works on OS X/Linux.


Lets be honest most people who wait for denuvo crack, are there to pirate the game. I totally agree tho that they have their focus wrong.


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## PRAGMA (Jul 26, 2018)

Genuinely want to know how he did it though haha


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

lampdemon said:


> No, downloading a game is not the same as stealing cash or physical goods.
> 
> 
> 
> All the popular games that have denuvo have been cracked/bypassed.


1. No matter how your bias wants to lean, the analogy is correct. I never said it was right or wrong, I implied the reason it's there.

2. They stated all that needs to happen is for cracking to be held off for a month or 2 so as to not affect sales since most of a games purchases will happen in that time frame. "All the popular games" did that, therefore job done.


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## lampdemon (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> 1. No matter how your bias wants to lean, the analogy is correct. I never said it was right or wrong, I said the reason it's there.



So, based on your analogy, if I hack a bank and steal $10,000 that's the same as me hacking a game company and making a copy of their game.


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## Xzi (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> 2. They stated all that needs to happen is for cracking to be held off for a month or 2 so as to not affect sales since most of a games purchases will happen in that time frame. "All the popular games" did that, therefore job done.


There's no evidence that piracy affects sales at all.  People who aren't sold on a game will be more than willing to wait a couple months after launch to get it free.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

lampdemon said:


> So, based on your analogy, if I hack a bank and steal $10,000 that's the same as me hacking a game company and making a copy of their game.


No. Based on my analogy, whining about the banks cyber security that you're trying to hack, is the same as whining about DRM. At the end of the day they are there for a perceived necessity. You view it as nuisance and they view it as protection of an investment.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> There's no evidence that piracy affects sales at all.  People who aren't sold on a game will be more than willing to wait a couple months after launch to get it free.


These are Denuvo's words not mine. Idk what sales figures look like but I wouldn't be surprised if 60-70% of a titles sales in the first 2-3 years were in those first 2 months. Hence if the crack is held off for that time frame, the publisher will consider the job done.


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## grossaffe (Jul 26, 2018)

FancyNintendoGamer567 said:


> Was the cracker's name actually "Voksi" or was that his alias?


The preferred term is "honky".


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## hippy dave (Jul 26, 2018)

grossaffe said:


> The preferred term is "honky".


Actually we prefer to be referred to as "melanin-challenged".


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## lampdemon (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> No. Based on my analogy, whining about the banks cyber security that you're trying to hack, is the same as whining about DRM. At the end of the day they are there for a perceived necessity. You view it as nuisance and they view it as protection of an investment.



It's not the same because Denuvo has affected legit customers from using the product that they purchased. When has a bank stopped you from accessing your money barring something illegal?


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

lampdemon said:


> It's not the same because Denuvo has affected legit customers from using the product that they purchased. When has a bank stopped you from accessing your money barring something illegal?


Those are secondary issues irrelevant to my point. If you haven't understood what I'm getting at, you just won't and I don't particularly care enough to try any more. On top of that, did you just say banks never get in the way of you getting your own money?


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## kumikochan (Jul 26, 2018)

Isn't his name voksi ?


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## Song of storms (Jul 26, 2018)

lampdemon said:


> It's not the same because Denuvo has affected legit customers from using the product that they purchased. When has a bank stopped you from accessing your money barring something illegal?


I can't withdraw more than a certain amount of money for security reasons. If it weren't for those people, I would be able to withdraw as much as I want.


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## Noctosphere (Jul 26, 2018)

I doubt he will go in jail
Good hacker like him usually get jobs


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2018)

DarthDub said:


> You think this person is the only one cracking Denuvo? Hah. People will continue to crack it.


If anything, this will just cause more groups to double down on Denuvo games out of spite.


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## fate6 (Jul 26, 2018)

1) Voksi
2) He is P2P not Scene.


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## Hells Malice (Jul 26, 2018)

This thread has the level of intelligence i'd basically expect from something like this.

He did something illegal, he got caught, he got punished. It's not hard to understand why or how. There is no "They shouldn't have...", they absolutely should have. He was illegally compromising their product, what about that isn't worthy of action?
The idea that they could hire him is a bit laughable tbh. If he was actually doing this in the name of "justice", I doubt he'd want to. If he did it just goes to show how weak his convictions are.

Lastly, basically all tests point to Denuvo being a complete non-factor in how it affects game performance. When properly implemented like it is in basically every game, it affects performance to such an absolutely minimal degree I doubt you'd notice it even on a rig from 1998.
Certain games have had issues, but they're the minority and tweaked denuvo to go absolutely nuts and work way harder than it was ever intended to work.

Denuvo is fine. It's just another one of those things people bitch about because they're mostly misinformed, or just need something, anything to bitch about.


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## lampdemon (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Those are secondary issues irrelevant to my point. If you haven't understood what I'm getting at, you just won't and I don't particularly care enough to try any more. On top of that, did you just say banks never get in the way of you getting your own money?


Vaults and DRM are completely different, what is your point again?



> I can't withdraw more than a certain amount of money for security reasons. If it weren't for those people, I would be able to withdraw as much as I want.



ATMs have a limit, just go to another branch or take your money to another bank.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

lampdemon said:


> Vaults and DRM are completely different, what is your point again?
> 
> 
> 
> ATMs have a limit, just go to another branch or take your money to another bank.


1. The purposes of both are the same, Security. If you fail (or are pretending not to) to see this you're either trolling or extremely biased for whatever reason, and again, I'm done playing philosophical semantics with you.

2. Every bank or credit union has policies which make getting money out of the ATM or even using your debit card more situationally difficult. This is off topic relating to the thread, and again, for the last time, I'm done. Have a nice day/evening.


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## BlastedGuy9905 (Jul 26, 2018)

This sounds pathetic. They build a shitty DRM, it couldn't hold up. They arrest the person who cracked it. I don't know but Denuvo doesn't sounds like a really good DRM now.


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## lampdemon (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> 1. The purposes of both are the same, Security. If you fail (or are pretending not to) to see this you're either trolling or extremely biased for whatever reason, and again, I'm done playing philosophical semantics with you.
> 
> 2. Every bank or credit union has policies which make getting money out of the ATM or even using your debit card more situationally difficult. This is off topic relating to the thread, and again, for the last time, I'm done. Have a nice day/evening.


1. Yes, they are different types of security that do different things, drm is delayed until cracked, the other one doesn't get bypassed often.

2. I don't see anywhere that says there's a limit from withdrawing from branches, but you will get a report to the IRS from withdrawing more than $10k

Have a nice day.


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2018)

To be honest, he put the whole group at risk, by not only having a publicly accessible website and forum, accepting donations on that website, and being too open and making himself a target.


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## Captain_N (Jul 26, 2018)

a real hacker does not need to be recognized. they are fully anonymous. The ones that get raided are the ones that need their e-boner to be stroked. All that was needed was to spill the information on the web from a public connection that uploads from a phone while waking by a open connection. No one would know who it was then.


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## MarkDarkness (Jul 26, 2018)

Hells Malice said:


> This thread has the level of intelligence i'd basically expect from something like this.
> 
> He did something illegal, he got caught, he got punished. It's not hard to understand why or how. There is no "They shouldn't have...", they absolutely should have. He was illegally compromising their product, what about that isn't worthy of action?
> The idea that they could hire him is a bit laughable tbh. If he was actually doing this in the name of "justice", I doubt he'd want to. If he did it just goes to show how weak his convictions are.
> ...


You approach this from a US-centric point of view. Maybe you are not US, but you still use their framework as your reference.

The idea that simple circumvention of a piece of software for personal use of multimedia is illegal, without aimimg profit, underpins a much broader debate about what intellectual property is and what it is supposed to do.

It is by no means a consensus that this is illegal or that you can allienate this right from a citizen. The US has the biggest and best funded lobby in the world to push forward and harmonize the idea that IP is supposed to protect every single unit of a piece of content, vs. allowing for frutiful gain from producing a work of art. That does not make them the only valid actor in this.

So when you make a blanket statement about how it is stupid to hold an opinion against Denuvo, it betrays your lack of undestanding of this as a global discussion and not something that is harmonized and solved.


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## jt_1258 (Jul 26, 2018)

temthereal said:


> he probably wouldn’t have had to gone through this if he had a decent vpn....


or distributed via torrent


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Pirates whining about DRM is like bank robbers whining about vaults.



Legit users complain about denuvo bullshit too, look at the reviews on many games on Steam. Sonic Mania uses this DRM, Star Ocean 3 uses this DRM, Tales of Symphonia uses this DRM? How the hell are pirates the only ones complaining about this? Surely, you're not a DRM warrior? Sad.

I'm more saddened by the sheer complacency and acceptance of DRM more than being concerned on how DRM affects legit customers. Oh and SecuROM and Starforce? Yeah, I cracked the DRM on a game after I installed it a few years ago, come at me.  It's seems almost like the whole "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" level of acceptance. For all we know, DRM warriors will be okay when DRM gets so restrictive that you can't play the game if you don't have internet. That's my take anyway. Good for Denuvo being cracked 

If you're gonna do this, don't be an idiot and make things  public, do it anonymously.


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## brunocar (Jul 26, 2018)

this comes a week after voksi proved that denuvo was making sonic mania plus run worse :/


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## kuwanger (Jul 26, 2018)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Fight for everlasting peace!



I must have missed that episode of Mega Man Battle Network.  Seriously, though, it would have been so much more awesome fighting in cyberspace against the evil corporations and their DRM than the nonsensical stuff that was the MMBN series.



osaka35 said:


> But I don't want to support their DRM stupidity so I'm not sure what the best method is to convey my contempt for their methods.



Pirate their games?  I'm not actually condoning this, but if the whole point is "we include DRM so you can't pirate it" then paying them only encourages the notion that the DRM works.  Actually pirating the DRM game does the precise opposite.  The only real major recourse would be to start [yet another] "boycott DRM" list and try to get as many people to sign up.  The reality of that, of course, is that except for short-lived PR, basically that's entirely ignored by most everyone because it means having to actually give up playing games you want to.



DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> I can't withdraw more than a certain amount of money for security reasons. If it weren't for those people, I would be able to withdraw as much as I want.



Honestly, that's not really security reasons.  That's done for various reasons:  to make bank runs harder, to allow banks to hold a lot less cash on hand to fulfill banking requirements without it being obvious most the money is out on loan, to facilitate macroeconomic controls by government to manipulate the money supply, and to allow the government to better track income for tax purposes.  Banks must already report large bank transfers for "money laundering" reasons to the government so the actual money transfers shouldn't be per se a security issue.

Back to DRM, even something innocuous as Steam can be a royal pain.  Running Windows games on WINE can often require a very specific setup to get working and changes may break other games.  So, the best approach is to just "bottle" a WINE folder for just that game.  That doesn't work well with Steam though and its need to be pervasively running for most games.  Worse it might see each "bottle" as a new system and Steam only allows n many systems active at a time.  Obviously, this is a very specific issue with WINE in this instance, but don't people have the same issue with games in Steam on Windows requiring specific hardware/Windows versions to work?  *sigh*


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## Tailsun (Jul 26, 2018)

I don't know anything about Voski but a full-on raid with all of its trappings seems extremely heavy handed. I have to imagine Denuvo is looking to get a lot of press and make an example of this guy. A smarter company would be trying to hire him. Hopefully he makes it out alright once the show is over.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

brunocar said:


> this comes a week after voksi proved that denuvo was making sonic mania plus run worse :/



Denuvo, the pusillanimous way to make legit users suffer because "piracy"


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## osaka35 (Jul 26, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Pirate their games?  I'm not actually condoning this, but if the whole point is "we include DRM so you can't pirate it" then paying them only encourages the notion that the DRM works.  Actually pirating the DRM game does the precise opposite.  The only real major recourse would be to start [yet another] "boycott DRM" list and try to get as many people to sign up.  The reality of that, of course, is that except for short-lived PR, basically that's entirely ignored by most everyone because it means having to actually give up playing games you want to



I feel bad for developers who put their heart into creating a game, then publishers slap DRM onto the thing (I know the process can vary, but this is the one I dislike the most). I know some DRM was aimed at reducing the sale of "used" games, but that went away rather quickly I think. Lots of different types of DRM with varying goals and varying results. I honestly have less experience with this particular DRM, but I'm always on the lookout for difficulties to historical digital preservation of games. DRM is usually antithetical to preservation.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

osaka35 said:


> I feel bad for developers who put their heart into creating a game, then publishers slap DRM onto the thing (I know the process can vary, but this is the one I dislike the most). I know some DRM was aimed at reducing the sale of "used" games, but that went away rather quickly I think. Lots of different types of DRM with varying goals and varying results. I honestly have less experience with this particular DRM, but I'm always on the lookout for difficulties to historical digital preservation of games. DRM is usually antithetical to preservation.



I can only assume that in the grand scheme of things, DRM has barely, if at all, helped to curtail piracy and used game sales. I could be wrong, but the fact it does the opposite, it drives people to pirate the game rather than having some crippling piece of garbage DRM (i.e all of them). The only decent DRM is Steam's rudimentary one, it's noninvasive, it can be run offline, it doesn't screw up performance, it's the only DRM I tolerate. Denuvo is the opposite, it is invasive, it can't be used offline, it is only implemented to placate investors to help them sleep better at night. DRM never benefits the user, it has driven me to crack my legit copy of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory as the DRM in that game is a known rootkit, yeah, real smart there, Starforce. 

TL;DR - Aggressive DRM is unnecessary, benefits only the investors, and only drives people to crack the game. As far as I'm concerned, if you spend money on a game, you should be able to crack it and not have the devs bitch and moan.


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## guily6669 (Jul 26, 2018)

He is\was my gaming GOD, I hope he doesnt get a job on Denuvo too, hope he gets out in a good solution.

But he was kinda bad doing bad stuff on the open .

RIP my friend.


the_randomizer said:


> I can only assume that in the grand scheme of things, DRM has barely, if at all, helped to curtail piracy and used game sales. I could be wrong, but the fact it does the opposite, it drives people to pirate the game rather than having some crippling piece of garbage DRM (i.e all of them). The only decent DRM is Steam's rudimentary one, it's noninvasive, it can be run offline, it doesn't screw up performance, it's the only DRM I tolerate. Denuvo is the opposite, it is invasive, it can't be used offline, it is only implemented to placate investors to help them sleep better at night. DRM never benefits the user, it has driven me to crack my legit copy of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory as the DRM in that game is a known rootkit, yeah, real smart there, Starforce.
> 
> TL;DR - Aggressive DRM is unnecessary, benefits only the investors, and only drives people to crack the game. As far as I'm concerned, if you spend money on a game, you should be able to crack it and not have the devs bitch and moan.


Starfuck still holds the record for uncracked game for more than a year.

But as companies said Denuvo was like GOD for their billionaire pockets as they only care is mostly the 1st months of sale for their pre-order piece of shit 100€ full games nowadays with premiums and shitz, they make more money on the first weeks then sales drop a lot (lots see no crack for a month or 2 and they go run buy the game, the rest waiting more than that either would not buy the game or have no cash like me and maybe could buy in a big promotion only).

And yeah Denuvo, making your kinda old but capable PC slower than you think so you can run and buy a new one to run their BULLSHIT MINING LIKE protections that eat up the whole CPU. Its so nice having a nice CPU to then have like 30% game usage and the rest for a stupid F* ass DRM garbage that no one wants.

ps: Whos in favour of Denuvo? Yeah, Intel, Nvidia, AMD (this ones will want less gaming performance 4 everyone to buy new hardware from them), then EA, Ubilolosoft......... ppl with money that can buy the entire island where I live if they could...


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## kuwanger (Jul 26, 2018)

osaka35 said:


> I feel bad for developers who put their heart into creating a game, then publishers slap DRM onto the thing (I know the process can vary, but this is the one I dislike the most).



I feel bad for them, but when you lie down with dogs you get fleas.



osaka35 said:


> I know some DRM was aimed at reducing the sale of "used" games, but that went away rather quickly I think.



Fuck 'em.  If I were a lawyer i'd be tempted to pro bono class action lawsuit as many companies as I could for all the economic harm of removing resale.  Being digital and/or being copyright does not and should not grant you the power to undermine First Sale Doctrine.



osaka35 said:


> Lots of different types of DRM with varying goals and varying results. I honestly have less experience with this particular DRM, but I'm always on the lookout for difficulties to historical digital preservation of games. DRM is usually antithetical to preservation.



They may all state various goals, but they all are fundamentally about [controlling the] Digital Rights [of copyright holders by] Management [that prohibits use in some way].  Not only is this antithetical to preservation, it's really antithetical to the concept of contractual or consensual agreement because it grants unilateral power over one party for an indefinite time (since DRM doesn't magically expire when the copyright runs out*).  The most you get is some statement of "contains DRM" without little limit on what they can do, when they can do it, how they can do it, how long they can do it, etc.

* Right after I invent DRM that magically expires after a time limit, I'll also invent encryption backdoors that only work with law enforcement with a valid warrant.  Oh, and one could argue that one can legally break the DRM (however difficult that might be) once the copyright runs out, but that only holds so long as the DRM isn't used with any other copyrighted work or you're breaking the law indirectly for that work.  Ergo, companies can keep works legally protected so long as they keep using a DRM.  Maybe we'll get lucky and in 2000+ years (or whenever copyright really-and-honestly-expire-this-time) they'll grant an exemption.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Legit users complain about denuvo bullshit too, look at the reviews on many games on Steam. Sonic Mania uses this DRM, Star Ocean 3 uses this DRM, Tales of Symphonia uses this DRM? How the hell are pirates the only ones complaining about this? Surely, you're not a DRM warrior? Sad.


I'm not bro, I'm just saying that it's ironic. It sucks that this is where things stand with devs and publishers, but this is what they feel is necessary to protect their investments. I don't believe piracy is as bank breaking as some claim, but I also believe that no one will pay for what's easily obtained for free. There will have to be some measures of security involved. Forgive me for my lack of faith in the goodwill of humanity ...


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## ItsKipz (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> I'm not bro, I'm just saying that it's ironic. It sucks that this is where things stand with devs and publishers, but this is what they feel is necessary to protect their investments. I don't believe piracy is as bank breaking as some claim, but I also believe that no one will pay for what's easily obtained for free. There will have to be some measures of security involved. Forgive me for my lack of faith in the goodwill of humanity ...


If the free version offers multiple benefits over the paid version (besides price), the devs have failed. Denuvo-free / denuvo bypassed versions of games have

-less lag
-no online requirement
-easier mod support
-sometimes added anti-cheat where the original game had none (something this guy's team, REVOLT, did a while back)
-faster loading times


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## guily6669 (Jul 26, 2018)

Yep, some games have been tested and had quite a massive FPS drops or stuttering or lot more loading time with denuvo, depends on the game as off course heavy games by them self already will suffer the most.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 26, 2018)

Denuvo is shit. Period.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

ItsKipz said:


> If the free version offers multiple benefits over the paid version (besides price), the devs have failed. Denuvo-free / denuvo bypassed versions of games have
> 
> -less lag
> -no online requirement
> ...


The point is that the game was created with the expectation of returning a profit. When it's cracked on release day, it's chances of profits dwindle. Why? Because again, no one will pay for what they can get for free. Why would they?.


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## guily6669 (Jul 26, 2018)

Thats very dependant on the game if its a MP only game you really need to buy it as most on the Voksi no one plays and mostly were only working with cracked servers... He only made a few games that could actually join on official steam servers and play with who bought the game, but very rare and they got custom security a few time after so it stop working...

I barely have money but I ended up buying almost all MP games I played cracked, but my list is big and sadly I can't buy or even test a lot of games I really want for months and to buy a game I even start thinking if its really worth it for like a god damn month before I can decide to buy or not .


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## Youkai (Jul 26, 2018)

Hells Malice said:


> Lastly, basically all tests point to Denuvo being a complete non-factor in how it affects game performance. When properly implemented like it is in basically every game, it affects performance to such an absolutely minimal degree I doubt you'd notice it even on a rig from 1998.
> Certain games have had issues, but they're the minority and tweaked denuvo to go absolutely nuts and work way harder than it was ever intended to work.
> .



Wasn't it actually proven that it does indeed let some games lag like crazy? there were some games where they had to patch denuvo to make it run properly again.

I think I read something about a ridiculous ammount of pointer and lots of cross loading stuff


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## kuwanger (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> The point is that the game was created with the expectation of returning a profit. When it's cracked on release day, it's chances of profits dwindle. Why? Because again, no one will pay for what they can get for free. Why would they?



That explains why the NES Classic, SNES Classic, Wii VC, 3DS VC, etc were all complete market failures.  Oh, right, the NES/SNES had unbreakable DRM!  That's what stopped the pirates!  Seriously, while it's definitely the case that if it's trivially easy to find and download games for free there's a lot of people who will take the opportunity to do so, if a developer makes it virtually as easy* but charges and makes it clear they're the developer, they'll get a majority of the sales.

It's the last part that basically most turns me off from spending a dime on the Google App Store but leaves me wanting to spend money on Steam.  People actually feel morally obligated to help out the creator of a work they enjoy.  They don't feel obligated to shell out money to possible scammers just reselling someone else's app nor shelling out money on something that seems to be legitimately free.  Of course there's also the low bar of "this shouldn't cost money" like if someone is selling a simple task observer, but then that goes back to my loathing of the Google App Store.

* A good example for me.  Super Lucky's Tale is just adorable and finding out it's available for Windows (for my Windows gaming PC) made it seem very tantalizing.  But AFAIK you can only buy it off the Microsoft Store.  That basically immediately nixes me buying it for the foreseeable future--maybe they'll sell it elsewhere in the future.  I'm not helping out the abomination that is the Microsoft Store.  The same reason I'm not buying from Origin, UPlay, or anywhere else.


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## ItsKipz (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> The point is that the game was created with the expectation of returning a profit. When it's cracked on release day, it's chances of profits dwindle. Why? Because again, no one will pay for what they can get for free. Why would they?.


Logically speaking that's right, but in the real world it's been proven that not only does piracy not harm game sales, piracy can actually _help _game sales.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> That explains why the NES Classic, SNES Classic, Wii VC, 3DS VC, etc were all complete market failures.  Oh, right, the NES/SNES had unbreakable DRM!  That's what stopped the pirates!  Seriously, while it's definitely the case that if it's trivially easy to find and download games for free there's a lot of people who will take the opportunity to do so, if a developer makes it virtually as easy but charges and makes it clear they're the developer, they'll get a majority of the sales.
> 
> It's the last part that basically most turns me off from spending a dime on the Google App Store but leaves me wanting to spend money on Steam.  People actually feel morally obligated to help out the creator of a work they enjoy.  They don't feel obligated to shell out money to possible scammers just reselling someone else's app nor shelling out money on something that seems to be legitimately free.  Of course there's also the low bar of "this shouldn't cost money" like if someone is selling a simple task observer, but then that goes back to my loathing of the Google App Store.


You have more faith in people than I do. I highly doubt your proposed scenario would actually happen that way in reality. Let's look at it this way. How many people do you believe would attempt to return a 100$ bill they've found lying on the floor in a market? My bet would be maybe 1 out of 10. If you're that 1, kudos on you brother. I commend you for being a good person. The other 9 I believe are your typical Earthlings that are out for themselves and could care less who they kick off the ladder of life as they climb it.


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## Deleted User (Jul 26, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> when DRM gets so restrictive that you can't play the game if you don't have internet.


online-only DRM has been a thing for years, look at games like sim city 2013 for example


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

ItsKipz said:


> Logically speaking that's right, but in the real world it's been proven that not only does piracy not harm game sales, piracy can actually _help _game sales.


But where though? What proof? If it's there then why are publishers and developers forking over money for this technology? On the flip side of the same coin, why spend money unnecessarily? Especially when a necessary profit is involved. Console DRM is different than PC DRM in the aspect that the hardware has an inherent protection by being proprietary. PC doesn't have that luxury, sales were terrible for years (as were the efforts into porting games to PC), and cracks were commonplace on release day. This all alludes to a drastic solution like Denuvo. Frustrations ran high, and they turned to something they felt would help secure their profits but possibly at a cost. I personally haven't run into any issues with Denuvo, but I don't have every Denuvo game and it's entirely possible that some run jank with it, so at the very least these people implementing it into their games view it as a necessary evil.


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## kuwanger (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> You have more faith in people than I do. I highly doubt your proposed scenario would actually happen that way in reality. Let's look at it this way. How many people do you believe would attempt to return a 100$ bill they've found lying on the floor in a market?



The problem is that's a false dichotomy.  This isn't a $100 bill you've found in a market--that has $100 of value.  It's the cost of effort trying to find a pirated copy of a game and wrestling with all the risks and/or difficulties associated with vs the cost of finding and legitimately paying for a game you're interested in.  If it's trivial to Google a free copy and it's hassle free to install, plenty of people will pirate the game who otherwise would have bought it.  If Googling leads to an easy way to buy the game, it's worth $20 to you for the convenience and the moral high ground, and it's non-trivial to find and pirate the game, you'll take that route.

If there's 100 good games to play and you're inclined to pirate, unless you can just bulk download them all even the minor effort to find and download the games may well make you only pirate say 10% of them to play; whether you'd buy any of them with or without broken or unbroken DRM is really questionable.  Meanwhile, the hoarders will download them all and never play them.  To them, I ironically suggest publishers sell the hoarders a copy of the game encrypted with a one time pad so they can't play it and sell them an empty box/case for a heavy discount.

The general point is, it's not that simple to suggest that it's a question of faith.  It heavily ties into economic theory, opportunity cost, etc.  Clearly DRM free games are bought.  Games that have their DRM broken bought.  Terrible games are bought.  Even when it's true that publishers need the DRM to only last a few days to get the bulk of a highly hyped game launch sales, that says a lot less about the pirates and more about publishers have no faith in their ability to produce something with long-term appeal that'd motivate people to buy their game vs relying upon the hype for sales and the generally unoffensive genericness to prevent too many refunds.

Pirates are going to pirate.  Desperate companies are going to DRM.  Those are definitely a part of the picture, but I don't think they're the defining aspects.


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## MrJey (Jul 26, 2018)

It’s summer, play outside. Take your waterguns and make some water warfare outside.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks for all your hard work Voksi, you brought Denuvo nearly to it's knees. I hope CPY can now come back in the spotlight.


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## Tenshi_Okami (Jul 26, 2018)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> Thanks for all your hard work Voksi, you brought Denuvo nearly to it's knees. I hope CPY can now come back in the spotlight.


Or Baldman, he's a legend


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

LiveLatios said:


> online-only DRM has been a thing for years, look at games like sim city 2013 for example



Yeah, and it's absolutely the worst kind of DRM. Too bad it was cracked 



Memoir said:


> Denuvo is shit. Period.



I find it hilarious that game developers insist that it helps with sales


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## Shadowfied (Jul 26, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Denuvo and its parent company can burn in hell for all I care. Yes, I get why DRM is a thing, yes, I get why companies do it, to placate their teat-sucking investors, yadda yadda, but come on. Denuvo is bad and they should feel bad. DRM only makes legit users suffer, I'm glad there are cracks out there that circumvent DRM.


It's such a myth too. You're not gonna convert people into customers because they can't try the game more than you will if you can. There have been studies made on this. My favorite example is CD Projekt dropping Witcher 3 day 1 on GOG, they don't give two fucks. You make good shit and people will pay.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

Shadowfied said:


> It's such a myth too. You're not gonna convert people into customers because they can't try the game more than you will if you can. There have been studies made on this. My favorite example is CD Projekt dropping Witcher 3 day 1 on GOG, they don't give two fucks. You make good shit and people will pay.



Indeed, the whole situation is asinine, DRM free is what attracts customers, not invasive DRM that's garbage (i.e. all of DRM).



brickmii82 said:


> But where though? What proof? If it's there then why are publishers and developers forking over money for this technology? On the flip side of the same coin, why spend money unnecessarily? Especially when a necessary profit is involved. Console DRM is different than PC DRM in the aspect that the hardware has an inherent protection by being proprietary. PC doesn't have that luxury, sales were terrible for years (as were the efforts into porting games to PC), and cracks were commonplace on release day. This all alludes to a drastic solution like Denuvo. Frustrations ran high, and they turned to something they felt would help secure their profits but possibly at a cost. I personally haven't run into any issues with Denuvo, but I don't have every Denuvo game and it's entirely possible that some run jank with it, so at the very least these people implementing it into their games view it as a necessary evil.



I would love to see examples on how and where Denuvo has helped sales, that would be for a good laugh. DRM hasn't helped sales, period. It only alienates legit customers, to defend it and be okay with is only encourages companies to resort to implementing DRM. Too bad for them most DRM is easy enough to crack.

Sod DRM.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jul 26, 2018)

Tenshi_Okami said:


> Or Baldman, he's a legend


yes Voksi's sensei 

well i hope Voksi encourages more to take up the challenge but keep in the shadows 

I really believe that irdeto thought this could well be the start of the end of their $million purchase. I've no doubt Voksi could have done 1 or 2 day cracks over a long period.


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## GBADWB (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> The point is that the game was created with the expectation of returning a profit. When it's cracked on release day, it's chances of profits dwindle. Why? Because again, no one will pay for what they can get for free. Why would they?.




Witcher 3 was released DRM free due to the fact that CD Projekt is behind GOG. The game received many GOTY awards and praises everywhere. No doubt, that some people pirated it, but the game was released day 1 for "free". The game still made money.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

GBADWB said:


> Witcher 3 was released DRM free due to the fact that CD Projekt is behind GOG. The game received many GOTY awards and praises everywhere. No doubt, that some people pirated it, but the game was released day 1 for "free". The game still made money.


I just found this gem. 

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher...17s-biggest-games-because-its-just-that-good/

My faith in people may have just inched up a couple notches lol. Its undoubtedly one of the best games I've ever played.


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## K3N1 (Jul 26, 2018)

Them arresting crackers is the only way they'll make any profit. All hail the judicial system gaming companies only real profit.


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## NeoSlyde (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> I just found this gem.
> 
> https://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher...17s-biggest-games-because-its-just-that-good/
> 
> My faith in people may have just inched up a couple notches lol. Its undoubtedly one of the best games I've ever played.


So you said it:
- it’s not the drm that make sales, it’s the quality of the game

If your game is shitty no one will buy it and will crack it 
If your game is outstanding people will buy it even if there is a day one crack, because why? Because they deserve it!


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## hamohamo (Jul 26, 2018)

osaka35 said:


> I'm not sure what exactly they're suing him over, but I'd imagine it falls under the "they broke our lock and distributed it, thus impacting our sales" and "they distributed copyrighted content" (since I'm guessing he is also responsible for distributing the DRM-free stuff)





			
				


I'd like to know for sure said:
			
		

> yea things like these are so obscure in law. i bet a good lawyer could give him his shit back


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## Dungeonseeker (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> What? Does common sense elude you? It wouldn't be there if people didn't pirate software, just like vaults wouldn't be there if people didn't steal. Are you gonna be the jackass that overanalyzes this and turns this thread into "bbbut muh piracies r victimlessss"?
> 
> Edit: Just to be clear I could care less about piracy. I don't think it really hurts anyone, but an investor is obligated to protect their investment if they feel there's a threat to it. Hence, DRM.


Oh really, so explain why Movie studios paid hundreds of thousands to develop a VHS anti piracy system back in the 70s when VHS machines were so expensive only 2% of people could afford one to begin with?

Does that sound like an "it wouldn't exist if it wasn't required" scenario to you?

Or like how the music industry tried to stop DAT BEFORE IT WAS EVEN ON SALE to the general public? Again they can hardly claim people were using an UNRELEASED format to pirate their music with.

When claiming other people have no common sense it's generally a good idea to make sure you use your own first.


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## brickmii82 (Jul 26, 2018)

Dungeonseeker said:


> Oh really, so explain why Movie studios paid hundreds of thousands to develop a VHS anti piracy system back in the 70s when VHS machines were so expensive only 2% of people could afford one to begin with?
> 
> Does that sound like an "it wouldn't exist if it wasn't required" scenario to you?
> 
> ...


Because of fear. They got sold on the idea that piracy would cost them more money than a anti piracy implementation. The psychology behind this isn’t hard to figure out. What is hard to figure out is why people get all butthurt and triggered over this.


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## Zumoly (Jul 26, 2018)

So it does happen!


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## leon315 (Jul 26, 2018)

Denuvo should hire this guy to improve their security instead! And yes, people should buy games and support ur favourite dev companies.


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## netovsk (Jul 26, 2018)

BlueFox gui said:


> if crackers come to brazil they don't have such problems :V



Police here is corrupt as F, as almost everyone else. All Denuvo had to do was to bribe police officers and they'd get him arrested for drug dealing or even get pedo stuff on these computers as to lock him up for decades. Depending on the amount paid they'd even kill Voksi and plant a gun on the crime scene to incriminate.

He's better off in Bulgary.


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## Shadowfied (Jul 26, 2018)

Dungeonseeker said:


> Oh really, so explain why Movie studios paid hundreds of thousands to develop a VHS anti piracy system back in the 70s when VHS machines were so expensive only 2% of people could afford one to begin with?
> 
> Does that sound like an "it wouldn't exist if it wasn't required" scenario to you?
> 
> ...



Completely different industries. I don't know if there's any data on it but when it comes to movies, shows and music I would imagine that piracy can actually be pretty damaging. It's usually something you consume once in a short period of time, as opposed to a game that will be a part of your life for a while. Piracy in those industries have changed a lot in recent years though, it wasn't always "I DONT WANNA PAY LOLE" (just as with hacking consoles for example) but because there were no comfortable means of doing it the legal route. Heck, I still literally can't pay to watch Always Sunny when it airs. Guess I should move the the US and get cable.
People wanted streaming and downloads, and as soon as things like Netflix and Spotify became widespread and left their safe zones (US and Sweden respectively), so many users have just stopped pirating cause there's often no need.

In gaming there are many reasons to own a game as opposed to pirate it, be it online play, trophies, cloud saves, etc. There have been studies on the subject of piracy in gaming which has shown that pirates are often converted into customers thus increasing game sales, and that sounds extremely plausible to me, I couldn't count the times I've done it myself.

I also see how the same companies that just expect their consumers to adjust to the ones who bring it, of course reason with "Wait..it's out there for free??? STOP THAT" and that's never gonna change, even with evidence proving that it even helps.

Businesses refused to adjust to their customers wants and needs, and so they hurt themselves. Most users are happy to give some of their hard earned money if they get good stuff in return, and that's really what it's all about. Treat your consumers and your consumers will treat you.



brickmii82 said:


> What is hard to figure out is why people get all butthurt and triggered over this.


This. So much this.


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2018)

Should it be illegal to distribute paid content for free without consent? Yeah, sure why not? Although if it's not for profit it should be a civil matter, and even if it is for profit, if they can't prove the distributor made more than like $100,000 off of the material, it should be a civil matter as well. Either way they shouldn't be allowed to claim millions or billions of dollars in damages. Should circumvention of copy protection ever be illegal? Never. It's necessary for preservation. There have also been many cases of the crack making a game playable for legitimate customers, either because the DRM refused to work with their hardware or removing the DRM simply brought FPS from like 15 to a more playable 20-30 range. Distributing just the crack should not be a criminal or civil offense. My opinion is that the executable will not work without the rest of the files, so it should be non-infringing. "But muh executable copyrighted code!!!" you say? Ok fine, I'll release the crack as an .ips file then.


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## Dungeonseeker (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Because of fear. They got sold on the idea that piracy would cost them more money than a anti piracy implementation. The psychology behind this isn’t hard to figure out. What is hard to figure out is why people get all butthurt and triggered over this.


Whose butthurt or triggered?

I responded to guy claiming DRM wouldn't exist if it wasn't needed with 2 examples where it was used when it wasn't needed.

Tbh it seems like the only person who is triggered is you.



Shadowfied said:


> Completely different industries. I don't know if there's any data on it but when it comes to movies, shows and music I would imagine that piracy can actually be pretty damaging. It's usually something you consume once in a short period of time, as opposed to a game that will be a part of your life for a while. Piracy in those industries have changed a lot in recent years though, it wasn't always "I DONT WANNA PAY LOLE" (just as with hacking consoles for example) but because there were no comfortable means of doing it the legal route. Heck, I still literally can't pay to watch Always Sunny when it airs. Guess I should move the the US and get cable.
> People wanted streaming and downloads, and as soon as things like Netflix and Spotify became widespread and left their safe zones (US and Sweden respectively), so many users have just stopped pirating cause there's often no need.
> 
> In gaming there are many reasons to own a game as opposed to pirate it, be it online play, trophies, cloud saves, etc. There have been studies on the subject of piracy in gaming which has shown that pirates are often converted into customers thus increasing game sales, and that sounds extremely plausible to me, I couldn't count the times I've done it myself.
> ...


Again, I fully understand the rationale behind the decisions. I used them as examples to refute an argument, nothing more.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jul 26, 2018)

DarthDub said:


> You think this person is the only one cracking Denuvo? Hah. People will continue to crack it.



he has been the only one recently. only a handful have ever managed it

recently he was producing a few cracks a week. he will sadly be missed by many


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## Deleted User (Jul 26, 2018)

BlueFox gui said:


> if crackers come to brazil they don't have such problems :V


So true there are places which jailbreak consoles.


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## MrJason005 (Jul 26, 2018)

Hells Malice said:


> The idea that they could hire him is a bit laughable tbh. If he was actually doing this in the name of "justice", I doubt he'd want to. If he did it just goes to show how weak his convictions are.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale


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## DrayanoX (Jul 26, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> The point is that the game was created with the expectation of returning a profit. When it's cracked on release day, it's chances of profits dwindle. Why? Because again, no one will pay for what they can get for free. Why would they?.


Look up The Witcher 3. AAA game with absolutely no DRM (it was released on GOG, you could literally buy it once and copy/share it to as many PC as you want), yet it sold millions of copies. Because it was actually a GOOD game.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

I'm even more astounded by DRM warriors and damage control who seem to be okay with developers who get off by implementing DRM into their games. "B..but muh DRM, I must stop teh piratez!" Ha ha ha ha ha, are they for real? Do they honestly believe that having DRM is going to increase sales? Ha ha ha ha ha! I would love to see evidence that states stronger DRM = stronger sales. Projekt CD and GOG both say hi.

Sorry, but restrictive/unnecessarily invasive DRM only drives people to pirate the game and/or crack the DRM, not encourage more to buy it.


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## Song of storms (Jul 26, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> So you said it:
> - it’s not the drm that make sales, it’s the quality of the game
> 
> If your game is shitty no one will buy it and will crack it
> If your game is outstanding people will buy it even if there is a day one crack, because why? Because they deserve it!


The Witcher 3 was widely anticipated because everyone played the first two. You don't need DRM if your game is good AND you have a lot of visibility. Good luck making any kind of money if you're a new developer and made an ok game. So what, just because they didn't make the next GOTY they deserve no money?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



the_randomizer said:


> I'm even more astounded by DRM warriors and damage control who seem to be okay with developers who get off by implementing DRM into their games. "B..but muh DRM, I must stop teh piratez!" Ha ha ha ha ha, are they for real? Do they honestly believe that having DRM is going to increase sales? Ha ha ha ha ha! I would love to see evidence that states stronger DRM = stronger sales. Projekt CD and GOG both say hi.
> 
> Sorry, but restrictive/unnecessarily invasive DRM only drives people to pirate the game and/or crack the DRM, not encourage more to buy it.


For some reason I highly doubt that you don't lock the door of your house before leaving it. But why would you? It's unnecessary security because anybody with the right equipment can break it! Might as well just leave it unlocked! Hypocrite.


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## kuwanger (Jul 26, 2018)

DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> For some reason I highly doubt that you don't lock the door of your house before leaving it. But why would you? It's unnecessary security because anybody with the right equipment can break it!



DRM is like putting a lock on a door that must open when you turn the handle and for which forced entry leaves no clues of tampering.  Also, in the world of lock breaking/bypass tools being illegal you'd have to be ban axes, screwdrivers, hammers, shoulder pads, etc.  So, yes, DRM can be meant to be a tool like physical locks to keep honest people honest, but there's a whole slew of ways in which physical locks are different than digital ones.



DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> Hypocrite



There's also a big difference between you putting a lock on your house door and using it vs your bank for which you owe a mortgage (and for which all bank mortgaged homes use the same lock/key [system]).  It doesn't make you a hypocrite.  Like DRM, part of the reason for a physical lock is as a basis for harsher punishments.  The difference is often in the practicality of enforcement in getting even a basic punishment applied.  Ie, actually finding and punishing a pirate vs finding and punishing a trespasser.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> The Witcher 3 was widely anticipated because everyone played the first two. You don't need DRM if your game is good AND you have a lot of visibility. Good luck making any kind of money if you're a new developer and made an ok game. So what, just because they didn't make the next GOTY they deserve no money?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Yeah, you keep believing that, dude, keep using unsubstantiated and baseless assumptions. DRM is bad, it hurts consumers, you cannot deny it. Nowhere does DRM benefit the customer, nor does it help with sales.


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 26, 2018)

he must have posted his receipt online


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2018)

DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> Good luck making any kind of money if you're a new developer and made an ok game. So what, just because they didn't make the next GOTY they deserve no money?


Nobody bothers even pirating indie games that aren't any good really. Not sure what your pont is. I don't like the "if they pirated it, they weren't going to buy it anyway" excuse, but it works in thos case. Or is your point that we now have to go out and buy average to below average indie games now because someone out there might have copied it to another computer?

Oh, and btw, the first 2 Witcher games were DRM free as well, so the hype thing doesn't add up here.


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## Song of storms (Jul 26, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Nobody bothers even pirating indie games that aren't any good really. Not sire what the pont is. I don't like the "if they pirated it, they weren't going to buy it anyway" excuse, but it works in thos case. Or is your point that we now have to go out and buy average to below average indie games now because someone out there might have copied it to another computer?


"Ok" doesn't mean "not good". Pokémon Ultra Sun/Moon were ok games.


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2018)

DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> "Ok" doesn't mean "not good". Pokémon Ultra Sun/Moon were ok games.


Game Freak is a new developer now?


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## Song of storms (Jul 26, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Game Freak is a new developer now?


It was an example. I'll let you know next time I play an ok indie game.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jul 26, 2018)

DFdDFdefefecAADDFAADFGE said:


> The Witcher 3 was widely anticipated because everyone played the first two. You don't need DRM if your game is good AND you have a lot of visibility. Good luck making any kind of money if you're a new developer and made an ok game. So what, just because they didn't make the next GOTY they deserve no money?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Wait... What? Did you really just compare the security of your house and potentially your family to telling consumers they don't actually own the product they BOUGHT? The hell is wrong with you? DRM is nothing short of insulting to the end consumer.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 26, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Wait... What? Did you really just compare the security of your house and potentially your family to telling consumers they don't actually own the product they BOUGHT? The hell is wrong with you? DRM is nothing short of insulting to the end consumer.



Thank you! Glad someone else finally said it   Not sure what the hell kind of gas he's been huffing.


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## DrayanoX (Jul 26, 2018)

Okay let's admit for a second that DRM help sales. In that case, why developers don't remove the DRM from their game once the game is cracked ?


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2018)

DrayanoX said:


> Okay let's admit for a second that DRM help sales. In that case, why developers don't remove the DRM from their game once the game is cracked ?


Sometimes they do, but in both cases it's because of contractual reasons usually. Either because they don't want to renew the contract if the game is cracked, or they are contractually bound not to remove it until a certain time.


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## scoobydude51 (Jul 26, 2018)

I won’t be surprised If denuvo updates to v5.5 or even v6.0 after this incident. His name and likeness will be used as a message to those who try to crack denuvo. “Crack our DRM, and everyone’s game will get more worse in performance”.

Denuvo is starting to sound like a company that is usually the villain of a dystopian sci-if world that is evil and it’s ruining people’s fun. They’ve gotten too powerful for global cyberspace and they’re basically as corrupt as governments and law enforcement. They’re probably best friends with the greedy AAA industry right now. I bet they’re popping corks and having parties at each headquarters.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jul 26, 2018)

scoobydude51 said:


> They’re probably best friends with the greedy AAA industry right now. I bet they’re popping corks and having parties at each headquarters.



there are other party poopers  thou, CPY, Baldman and Steam Punks and I hope others come along and spoil the party.


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## scoobydude51 (Jul 26, 2018)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> there are other party poopers  thou, CPY, Baldman and Steam Punks and I hope others come along and spoil the party.



Dude, I hope so.


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Jul 26, 2018)

*OOF.*
My cracked copy of Mania Plus was also cracked by Voski, so now it’s officially illegal.
*
Please FBI, don’t track me down!*
For how long will he be in jail, anyway?


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## scoobydude51 (Jul 26, 2018)

Trash_Bandatcoot said:


> *OOF.*
> My cracked copy of Mania Plus was also cracked by Voski, so now it’s officially illegal.
> *
> Please FBI, don’t track me down!*



That makes me wonder if SEGA ratted out Voski since it was the last game to be publicly exposed to be badly implemented DRM and SEGA wanted to protect their image and basically asked denuvo to shut him down in any way possible.


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Jul 26, 2018)

SEGA said they deleted it in Mania, but ohh man, they are not learning from their lessons.
I’m sure the Shemue remake & Team Sonic Racing will have Denuvo as well.

Also, my Voski copy of Mania Plus simulates Denuvo at the exact same speed, and man, it’s worse.

Mania operates fast, while Mania Plus takes 20 seconds for the menu’s to load, every single time I have to go to the menu.
3/10 times it just freezes and proceeds to go back to my desktop.


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## Shinox (Jul 27, 2018)

Coming for the cracker himself for putting himself in risk publicly is WEAKNESS , seriously companies like this should dig their head into the ground and save their face from the embarrassments , its like Nintendo level of shameless actions with Rom sites and their Youtube system but 10x times worse , sorry for being specific but i notice most Canadians in this thread are happy about this news .. are you guys rich ?


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## Sheimi (Jul 27, 2018)

Trash_Bandatcoot said:


> Mania operates fast, while Mania Plus takes 20 seconds for the menu’s to load, every single time I have to go to the menu.


Mania Plus is bloated with Devuno.


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## xs4all (Jul 27, 2018)

Haven't read all the comments here yet, so not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I think a deal will be brought to the table where he offers to work as a security adviser if they drop the charges.


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## Tekniquez (Jul 27, 2018)

1 goes down 2 pop up. Nothing will change. FREE VOSKI!!


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## the_randomizer (Jul 27, 2018)

Sheimi said:


> Mania Plus is bloated with Devuno.


Well that's lame as hell.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jul 27, 2018)

xs4all said:


> Haven't read all the comments here yet, so not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I think a deal will be brought to the table where he offers to work as a security adviser if they drop the charges.



many people believe Denuvo was created by hackers, 
I doubt they would offer him a job also I think Baldman taught him how to crack denuvo.


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## heraymo (Jul 27, 2018)

The genie is already out there just trying to make a example of him. but its never stopped people from breaking drm.


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## Aether Lion (Jul 27, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> You have more faith in people than I do. I highly doubt your proposed scenario would actually happen that way in reality. Let's look at it this way. How many people do you believe would attempt to return a 100$ bill they've found lying on the floor in a market? My bet would be maybe 1 out of 10. If you're that 1, kudos on you brother. I commend you for being a good person. The other 9 I believe are your typical Earthlings that are out for themselves and could care less who they kick off the ladder of life as they climb it.


Just want to throw in that I am a person who will pirate a game, play it up to a month, and if I like it I almost always buy it on Steam. Using Windows Mixed Reality makes it even more important that I pirate-try it first so that I can make sure it's compatible with my VR setup. I spend hundreds a year just on that. :3


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Jul 27, 2018)

If you want to see the loading times, here you go:

Sonic Mania (after Denuvo got removed by SEGA)


 
Sonic Mania Plus (with Anti-Denuvo software)


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## NeoSlyde (Jul 27, 2018)

-nvm-


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 27, 2018)

Trash_Bandatcoot said:


> If you want to see the loading times, here you go:
> 
> Sonic Mania (after Denuvo got removed by SEGA)
> View attachment 137319
> ...


Same thing happens to Puyo Puyo Tetris. Sadly, we'll never see v3 of the crack for tjat game.


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## GilgameshArcher (Jul 27, 2018)

BlueFox gui said:


> if crackers come to brazil they don't have such problems :V


They are not going to have


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## BlueFox gui (Jul 27, 2018)

GilgameshArcher said:


> They are not going to have


give 10 bucks to police and they will do nothing XD


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## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2018)

Makes me wonder when the police comes knocking at my door...? "Bad Cops, Bad Cops what you gonna do,what you gonna do when they come for you!?"


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## guily6669 (Jul 27, 2018)

I just sent 5eur for him.

Who loved his work here's the info:



> You can read the full story on Reddit.
> 
> Since now he’s alone in his fight against evil corporation, he needs our support to cover legal actions. You can donate any amount to the bitcoin address posted below. Unlike your donations to me for site hosting, this case is much more serious. So even if you didn’t donate me anything, please donate this time for the cause. The guy was making free cracks for all of us, it woudn’t be fair to let him down now.
> 
> ...


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Jul 27, 2018)

Wait, wasn’t he in jail now?


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## the_randomizer (Jul 27, 2018)

To the people cheering this, why? What's in it for you?  Companies owe you nothing, these hackers are trying to help legit owners not suffer at the hands of shit DRM either, so what's up with that?


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## Jokey_Carrot (Jul 27, 2018)

woah bro you want to be able to modify your software that you own well i have just gotta stop you there buddy


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## the_randomizer (Jul 27, 2018)

Jokey_Carrot said:


> woah bro you want to be able to modify your software that you own well i have just gotta stop you there buddy



I don't think that's the entire reason he got caught; if I were to crack my copy of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory to remove the SecuROM and StarForce DRM, I doubt Ubisoft would knock on my door.


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## JFizDaWiz (Jul 28, 2018)

REVOLT is P2P not Scene


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 31, 2018)

That is sad news. I know they are legally within their right to do this, but think of how much it could ruin that guy's life, just because he despised Denuvo as much as anyone and actually had the skill to help out fellow gamers and do something about it.
I hope he gets off easy, he doesn't deserve multi-million dollar fines or worse.


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