# The war on gay kids: "Give 'em a good punch"



## yuyuyup (May 2, 2012)

*	North Carolina Pastor Sean Harris: Parents Should 'Punch' Their Gay-Acting Children (AUDIO)*

IN MY OPINION: don't punch kidz ALSO don't have children unless you are willing to accept whatever nature dictates

http://www.huffingto...ref=mostpopular

edit: mthrnite points out this pathetic backpedaling http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/05/ncs-pastor-sean-harris-i-was-only.html

"If I had to say it again, I would say it differently, no doubt," Harris said Tuesday. "Those weren't planned words, but what I do stand by is that the word of God makes it clear that effeminate behavior is ungodly. I'm not going to compromise on that."


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## Hyro-Sama (May 2, 2012)

I'll play devil's advocate if it will start a flame war.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

North Carolina's looking more like South Carolina all the time :/

edit: actually we've got a proposed constitutional amendment religious right dog biscuit coming up to vote next week, so things are a little heated right now.


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## Skelletonike (May 2, 2012)

Edit: Removed cuz I feel like I didn't explain what I meant that well and didn't want to come off as offensive or anything of the sort.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

North Carolina is in the South, thus bible belt, this isn't shocking.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

My kids can be whoever they want to be. Period. I have nothing against heterosexuals, so if they follow "gender norms" I'll be ok with that, and love them regardless. It's all about support and giving them the confidence to make their own way in the world without having to bow to some fake notion of "normal".


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> *I have nothing against homosexuals*, one of my best friends is actually gay, however, personally I wouldn't want my kids to be gay, and no friggin way in hell would I let them do girlish stuff, while they're my kids and at my place, they'll behave like they should, once they're adults then they can be whatever they want. xP
> 
> While it's true that people are what they are, the way they grow up will eventually affect your personality and who you become, I was raised by lots of women and no men, yet they always told me what a men were about, so I kinda grew up with an ideal of what I wanted to be, and I'll try to make my kids follow my footsteps eventually, of course I won't go to extremes of hitting them just for wearing a dress or acting girly, I'll just punish them like take away their toys. xP



First of all, if you would punish your child for being gay, and try to prevent him or her from being so, you absolutely have something against homosexuals.

Also, why would you punish and stifle your child for something he was born with? That's just like beating the shit out of your blind daughter because she can't see anything, or beating the neighborhood kid just because he's black. It's disgusting.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> My kids can be whoever they want to be. Period. I have nothing against heterosexuals, so if they follow "gender norms" I'll be ok with that, and love them regardless. It's all about support and giving them the confidence to make their own way in the world without having to bow to some fake notion of "normal".


What if you kid feels they were born in the wrong body and wants to be the opposite gender? Would you still support them? If so, I am happy you are more liberal than most parents.


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## yuyuyup (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> My kids can be whoever they want to be. Period. I have nothing against heterosexuals, so if they follow "gender norms" I'll be ok with that, and love them regardless. It's all about support and giving them the confidence to make their own way in the world without having to bow to some fake notion of "normal".


My kid better pioneer next-gen gender norms or he gets the boot, joke


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> I have nothing against homosexuals, one of my best friends is actually gay, however, personally I wouldn't want my kids to be gay, and no friggin way in hell would I let them do girlish stuff, while they're my kids and at my place, they'll behave like they should, once they're adults then they can be whatever they want. xP
> 
> While it's true that people are what they are, the way they grow up will eventually affect your personality and who you become, I was raised by lots of women and no men, yet they always told me what a men were about, so I kinda grew up with an ideal of what I wanted to be, and I'll try to make my kids follow my footsteps eventually, of course I won't go to extremes of hitting them just for wearing a dress or acting girly, I'll just punish them like take away their toys. xP


Also when boys tend to wear dresses... they might not be gay they may just be transsexual, thus you are no better than this pastor.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

smile72 said:


> mthrnite said:
> 
> 
> > My kids can be whoever they want to be. Period. I have nothing against heterosexuals, so if they follow "gender norms" I'll be ok with that, and love them regardless. It's all about support and giving them the confidence to make their own way in the world without having to bow to some fake notion of "normal".
> ...



Of course.

edit: also:


smile72 said:


> North Carolina is in the South, thus bible belt, this isn't shocking.


We've actually got quite a lot of transplanted northerners in the state. Seems like half of my friends are from Detroit or New Jersey. Once you get out into the rural areas, it's a different story. Were actually slowly becoming a pretty progressive state, that's kind of where the problem lies, in that there's a lot of backlash over that fact. The proposed amendment (marriage shall be between one man and one woman) is getting some fierce opposition, even from some conservatives, and quite a few churches, Baptists, Episcopalians, Lutherans.. it's amazing how far we've come. So please, no "southern retard" style bashing.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > mthrnite said:
> ...


Hurray!!! Also what state do you live in?


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## Fear Zoa (May 2, 2012)

*sigh* I don't want to live in this country anymore, I mean really whats with the anti gay crusade, If you live in a country with freedom of religion and beliefs, you should expect people to be different then you. That doesn't fucking mean punch them till they listen it means they have a right to be gay just as one has a right to be straight.

Some people love the rights given to them, but hate to accept that they will be given to others too

EDIT: Isn't straight up punching a child considered child abuse?


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## Phoenix Goddess (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> My kids can be whoever they want to be. Period. I have nothing against heterosexuals, so if they follow "gender norms" I'll be ok with that, and love them regardless. It's all about support and giving them the confidence to make their own way in the world without having to bow to some fake notion of "normal".



As long as my kids continue my world-destroying robots legacy, they can dress up to be an alien if all I care. I'll even buy them a tin-foil hat if it makes them happy. My son can wear dresses and I wouldn't love him any less. Just not _my_ dresses. Same goes for my daughter.  Kids rip things D: 
Parents shouldn't mind if their children wants to love someone of the same gender or even change genders. You don't love them for their love life. You don't love them for their gender. You love them because they are your child. I think standing in their way would make you less of a parent and would just make them feel like a disappointing disgrace. No child should feel that way.


But eh, rambling. I agree with you, mthr


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> *sigh* I don't want to live in this country anymore, I mean really whats with the anti gay crusade, If you live in a country with freedom of religion and beliefs, you should expect people to be different then you. That doesn't fucking mean punch them till they listen it means they have a right to be gay just as one has a right to be straight.
> 
> Some people love the rights given to them, but hate to accept that they will be given to others too


Don't let the Christian groups hear you... see to them when a gay person gets married it somehow violates their freedom of religion (even though marriage is controlled by the government). Also this is the Bible Belt so......... this is not exactly uncommon to hear from an Evangelical pastor.


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## dickfour (May 2, 2012)

Seriously I'm paying $3.85 at the pump. I couldn't give a shit what one crazy pastor says. If anything gays have an elevated status in society these days and I'm really getting sick of all this lame ass propaganda


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

dickfour said:


> Seriously I'm paying $3.85 at the pump. I couldn't give a shit what one crazy pastor says. If anything gays have an elevated status in society these days and I'm really getting sick of all this lame ass propaganda



Elevated status? Please, do expound. I had no idea being called a fag in public was such a privilege.

And if you don't want to pay that much, convert your vehicle to propane, ride your bike, take the bus, fucking carpool. There are many ways to avoid paying that much at the pump, but that's neither here nor there.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

dickfour said:


> Seriously I'm paying $3.85 at the pump. I couldn't give a shit what one crazy pastor says. If anything gays have an elevated status in society these days and I'm really getting sick of all this lame ass propaganda


Talking out of your ass aren't you. Please stop saying such ignorant garbage without any evidence (none from any Christian site or Fox News).


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## prowler (May 2, 2012)

dickfour said:


> Seriously I'm paying $3.85 at the pump. I couldn't give a shit what one crazy pastor says. If anything gays have an elevated status in society these days and I'm really getting sick of all this lame ass propaganda


seriously.

it looks like the only people that do take offence to this are non-gays.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Hurray!!! Also what state do you live in?


North Carolina (see my previous edit)
I'm fighting along with a lot of other people in my state to ensure equal rights to equal people, anything less than that is a problem for me and mine.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > Hurray!!! Also what state do you live in?
> ...


God luck with that, Illinois doesn't allow same-sex marriage, North Carolina will probably succeed in double banning it. However let us all pray for gays in Maryland and probably Washington who are going to have to fight to keep their right to marry this November.


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## Fear Zoa (May 2, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Fear Zoa said:
> 
> 
> > *sigh* I don't want to live in this country anymore, I mean really whats with the anti gay crusade, If you live in a country with freedom of religion and beliefs, you should expect people to be different then you. That doesn't fucking mean punch them till they listen it means they have a right to be gay just as one has a right to be straight.
> ...


I think the problem is that despite the separation of church and state, our values are at their very core based on religion. Even marriage itself comes from religion which is why people are offended by it. They need to realize that marriage is not a union of a man and a woman under one god anymore, its a legal status and their are many benefits that come with it that are completely detached from the original meaning.

at least that's my interpretation. Who knows, Maybe i'm giving them too much credit and their all just a bunch of hypocritical homophobes


-snip-


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## Rockhoundhigh (May 2, 2012)

I now have a strange image in my head of a preacher beating up a little kid ._.


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> smile72 said:
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> 
> > Fear Zoa said:
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Objection! Religion and Marriage are both VERY old...older than recorded time even, and after extensive study it's still undetermined which came first.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > Fear Zoa said:
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Most Conservative Christians groups don't want any legal recognition for gay couples,they don't want them in the military, hell they don't even want them breathing

-snip-


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## Fear Zoa (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Fear Zoa said:
> 
> 
> > smile72 said:
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Yea I'll give you that one its unknown  which came first. But religion has a strong attachment to marriage nonetheless


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

Look, I'm an atheist myself, and an ardent one, religion is mostly foolish piffle, but, religious groups are coming around, except the evangelicals, but they're just a subset. Things are getting better, and that's why the bigots that are left are getting louder.


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## KingVamp (May 2, 2012)

I'm not a atheist(not sure how much that matters...),but to force sexual orientation, it just doesn't seem right.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

smile72 said:


> I'm going to adopt the children. Doubt it, I'm bipolar.. therefore their lives will be super interesting.



Don't pretend to know what to expect, just do your best, and hope for the best. Being a parent will take you a lot of places you can't really imagine, and whatever you are now, you'll be something different once you've got kids. Unless you're a dick. Dicks stay dicks regardless.


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## p1ngpong (May 2, 2012)

God help the next person who derails this thread into an offtopic bitchy little flame war.


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## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to adopt the children. Doubt it, I'm bipolar.. therefore their lives will be super interesting.
> ...


I'll try my best. If you don't mind could I continue this conversation with you through PM's?


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## BlueStar (May 2, 2012)

dickfour said:


> Seriously I'm paying $3.85 at the pump.



You've really embraced that republican memo of 'no matter what is being discussed, change the subject to gas prices' haven't you? Not that I see anyone saying what the hell Obama is supposed to do about it, short of controlling petrol companies to set prices which I thought was socialism.  Also, you'd have a heart attack if you saw how much petrol was over here. 



> I couldn't give a shit what one crazy pastor says. If anything gays have an elevated status in society these days and I'm really getting sick of all this lame ass propaganda



Elevated status? Cool. Try an experiment for me, get a male friend of yours and spend a day and an evening walking around your hometown holding hands with him. Come back and tell us how much you enjoyed your day of elevated status.


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## cris92x (May 2, 2012)

My mind is completely stupified by that person's words if you can call him a person. How does punching a 4 year old kid solve homosexuality, being gay isn't a damned learned trait that you can just override. All that makes you is a horrible person for hitting a child. Honestly, as a practicing catholic I'm beyond offended that we christians get lumped together with these idiots who lack common sense and morality. Bible's main points are about tolerance, love, and that everyone has good inside them, but oh no none of this applies to  poeple you hate such as other races, religions, or sexual orientations. I never understood hatred towards another group and I never will. What do homosexuals do that offend people so much? It isn't a disease it can't spread, homosexuals are also more loyal in their relationships, and from personal experience have found them much more understanding and compassionate than straights. Homosexual men are more of a "man" than straight men because they have the courage to stand up for their beliefs and tell a majority who hate them that they are different.


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## Sicklyboy (May 2, 2012)

Note: What I am going to say is very subjective.
I don't understand why people have such problems with gays (as a primary example, though many other things fall into this.)

Me and my girlfriend have talked about this, how she is surprised that I am just not like other people; how open minded I am.  For the most part, I follow the "_to each their own_ belief.  As long as whatever you're doing isn't harmful to yourself or others (that's the subjective part - "harmful" varies from person to person and belief to belief), I am pretty much gonna be okay with it.

Gay?  By all means, *go for it!*  If you find your love in someone of the same sex, that's great.  I find my love in someone of a different sex, which is great too.  I've even had other guys tell me how they find me attractive, which I am okay with, I just appreciate that you don't go any further and try to make unwanted advances on me, as a girl wouldn't want a guy to make unwanted advances on her, though still might appreciate him calling her cute.

Religion?  I have my beliefs and you have yours.  Your may and probably do differ from mine, which is completely cool.  Want to discuss it with me?  Go for it, but let's just keep it at that; don't go overboard and start telling me how X "god" is superior or how your religion/beliefs might be better.

Vegetarianism/Veganism? This is what the basis of the discussion with my girlfriend was about, as she is a vegetarian.  I for one couldn't imagine *myself* not eating meat, but that doesn't make it right for me to think less of someone else for not wanting to do so.  I might very well be interested in the dietary changes you need to make to ensure you get the right nutritional intake each day, maybe I would like to hear about some of the vegetarian/vegan meals you make - some of the stuff my girlfriend makes sounds/is absolutely delicious.  Chances are you probably don't give a damn and would rather not hear about how much bacon I ate last night, and I certainly don't want to be told that eating meat is flat out wrong.  I understand that there is much unnecessary cruelty in the meat industry, but nothing can be perfect.  Not saying I agree with it, but it's not on the top of my list of concerns.

Let's see...

Here's some things more on the fence for me.

Marijuana usage?  My father raised me telling me that if he ever catching me using any kind of drug, he will literally beat the shit out of me.  And to this day, I've kept from doing anything.  Many people say marijuana is harmless, which it very well may be.  I don't agree with using it, though haven't shunned anyone for doing so.  I've many a pot-heat friend.

Other drugs, some are very harmful.  That I do not agree with at all.  Smoking is disgusting to me, and has been proven to have many negative health effects.  Alcohol, definitely not something good to get in to, though in moderation it isn't terrible, and I'd be lying if I said I've never been drunk.

I just don't understand how people can be so close-minded.  Me being tolerant wasn't specifically part of my upbringing, that's just something that I've always believed in as I've grown through the years.  I wish everyone could just keep their beliefs out of everyone else's face and realize that not everyone is going to adhere to your pre-conceived notions of some "golden standard" for living.

Edit:




cris92x said:


> My mind is completely stupified by that person's words if you can call him a person. How does punching a 4 year old kid solve homosexuality, being gay isn't a damned learned trait that you can just override. All that makes you is a horrible person for hitting a child. Honestly, as a practicing catholic I'm beyond offended that we christians get lumped together with these idiots who lack common sense and morality. Bible's main points are about tolerance, love, and that everyone has good inside them, but oh no none of this applies to  poeple you hate such as other races, religions, or sexual orientations. I never understood hatred towards another group and I never will. What do homosexuals do that offend people so much? It isn't a disease it can't spread, homosexuals are also more loyal in their relationships, and from personal experience have found them much more understanding and compassionate than straights. Homosexual men are more of a "man" than straight men because they have the courage to stand up for their beliefs and tell a majority who hate them that they are different.



(For the record, I am agnostic.) Not to turn this discussion into a religious debate (please, let's just not...) but whenever I see people the Christian extremists (*As in NOT you, I have no problem with what you're saying*) spewing some shit about how Christianity is the only right religion this and that, I love pulling out the passages in the Bible from Leviticus.  What he says tends to just be completely absurd, lol.  I very much agree with everything you said, ESPECIALLY the last bit how homosexuals are more of a man than straight men.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

cris92x said:


> ... Honestly, as a practicing catholic I'm beyond offended that we christians get lumped together with these idiots who lack common sense and morality. Bible's main points are about tolerance, love, and that everyone has good inside them, but oh no none of this applies to  poeple you hate such as other races, religions, or sexual orientations. ...



Many of my friends and family are religious. I see them changing their religion's tenets from the inside, while taking heat from the higher ups to step back in line with the dogma. I really respect them for pushing those boundaries. I was raised Primitive Baptist, and while I did make it out, you tend to coddle the religion you're indoctrinated into somewhat. I was happy to see recently that a Baptist church in my area (NC, same as the preacher we're talking about) has refused to perform legal "traditional" marriages until same-sex marriages are considered legal in our state. They'll continue to perform ceremonies, but will handle none of the legal structure whatsoever. What I think it boils down to, is that they don't want their God to be a god of hate, like what you're saying. I don't buy any of the God business at all, but I respect that all the same. I'd rather you have a loving god if you're going to have one at all.


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## BlueStar (May 2, 2012)

cris92x said:


> My mind is completely stupified by that person's words if you can call him a person. How does punching a 4 year old kid solve homosexuality, being gay isn't a damned learned trait that you can just override.



You're talking about an institution that used to punish children for 'unnaturally' writing with their left hand and force them to use their right until they developed a stammer, don't bother looking for logic.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (May 2, 2012)

As a Christian, I find this both offensive and ironic.


Christianity is supposed to be a religion of love, yet we're encouraged to hate and beat up gays?

*facepalm*


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## cris92x (May 2, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> cris92x said:
> 
> 
> > My mind is completely stupified by that person's words if you can call him a person. How does punching a 4 year old kid solve homosexuality, being gay isn't a damned learned trait that you can just override.
> ...


I'm also talking about a religion that was persecuted and killed for following their savior, the point is every major group throughout history has suffered and at the same time done many atrocities to mankind. We live in an age where you can just go to a library or  the internet and research any topic easily. I don't know how to change the oil filter on my car let me go ask a mechanic, find a book, or google that, but on the other side I don't know much about homosexuality except that my pastor tells me its bad and so does everyone else, let me not go and befriend a gay person or research information independently. If you can have your own opinions then you have the mental capacity to go decide by your own self and look into your choices. You don't buy something if you don't know what it actually does, at least that is how it's supposed to work, there will always be those who are suckered by the words of others.


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## Sicklyboy (May 2, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> cris92x said:
> 
> 
> > My mind is completely stupified by that person's words if you can call him a person. How does punching a 4 year old kid solve homosexuality, being gay isn't a damned learned trait that you can just override.
> ...



http://en.wikipedia....ral_and_dextral

I had no idea until my girlfriend told me about this a few months ago.  I'm a lefty.  *I'm sinister!*



cris92x said:


> but on the other side I don't know much about homosexuality except that my pastor tells me its bad and so does everyone else, let me not go and befriend a gay person or research information independently.



And therein lies the issue with many a controversial topic - *someone* (not just a religious leader, mind you) tells you/a group that something is wrong or immoral, and with nobody to tell them otherwise, they believe it.  If they have their own opinion about that already, they'll denounce what they were just told.

With this specific topic, someone says you ought to punch your kids for exhibiting homosexual traits.  "Well, I guess I've never really put much thought into homosexuality, but now that this guy mentions it, I sure as hell don't want my kids to turn out to be some queers.  If he says punching them is gonna be helpful, by God I ought to do it then!  I ain't heard anything else that'll stop it."

And we have a word for this kind of person.  "Sheeple".


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

yuyuyup said:


> *	North Carolina Pastor Sean Harris: Parents Should 'Punch' Their Gay-Acting Children (AUDIO)*
> 
> IN MY OPINION: don't punch kidz ALSO don't have children unless you are willing to accept whatever* the kids decide for themselves*
> 
> http://www.huffingto...ref=mostpopular



Fixed that for you.


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## Midna (May 2, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> I have nothing against homosexuals, one of my best friends is actually gay, however, personally I wouldn't want my kids to be gay, and no friggin way in hell would I let them do girlish stuff, while they're my kids and at my place, they'll behave like they should, once they're adults then they can be whatever they want. xP


>My kids will do and say what I want them to as long as they are under my roof
Take it from me. They will hate you.


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

Midna said:


> Skelletonike said:
> 
> 
> > I have nothing against homosexuals, one of my best friends is actually gay, however, personally I wouldn't want my kids to be gay, and no friggin way in hell would I let them do girlish stuff, while they're my kids and at my place, they'll behave like they should, once they're adults then they can be whatever they want. xP
> ...


I side with skellotonike views on the subject wholeheartedly. Also, parents are not to be loved by their kids but to raise them into proper sentient human beings. Period.


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## Midna (May 2, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Skelletonike said:
> ...


Congratulations you two, you're keeping the therapists busy and paid.
I hope you enjoy raising your child if your philosophy going in is to force them into your ideal mould and ignore their affections


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## Zero Aurion (May 2, 2012)

Some people just DO NOT need to be parents


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Skelletonike said:
> ...



I seriously hope something happens that leaves you both sterile, because no one deserves parents like you. For the sake of everyone else on this planet, leave your genes out of the pool. There's enough hate and ignorance in this world without you two adding to it.


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## triassic911 (May 2, 2012)

If I say how I feel most of you guys would bash me since this entire community is pro-gay.

All I can say is that love exists in many ways, including homo ways, and that's life. Life is fucked up in all sorts of ways, but somehow it goes on day by day. I may not agree with gays, but I certainly don't hate them. I would rather avoid trouble than start it.

*inb4catboy*


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

triassic911 said:


> If I say how I feel most of you guys would bash me since this entire community is pro-gay.
> 
> All I can say is that love exists in many ways, including homo ways, and that's life. Life is fucked up in all sorts of ways, but somehow it goes on day by day. I may not agree with gays, but I certainly don't hate them. I would rather avoid trouble than start it.
> 
> *inb4catboy*



Honestly? That's all we ask for. We don't demand support (but support is always nice) or for you to shove sunshine and rainbows up our ass just because we're gay or bi. All we ask for is tolerance and equality. You don't have to like me or my lifestyle, but as long as you keep it to yourself, it's all gravy. I'm not asking for you to go out and suck a dick, I'm asking for the same rights as everyone else.


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## Midna (May 2, 2012)

triassic911 said:


> If I say how I feel most of you guys would bash me since this entire community is pro-gay.
> 
> All I can say is that love exists in many ways, including homo ways, and that's life. Life is fucked up in all sorts of ways, but somehow it goes on day by day. I may not agree with gays, but I certainly don't hate them. I would rather avoid trouble than start it.
> 
> *inb4catboy*


I'm not pro anything. I'm simply against those that stand against others for meaningless differences.


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## Shadow#1 (May 2, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> *sigh* I don't want to live in this country anymore, I mean really whats with the anti gay crusade, If you live in a country with freedom of religion and beliefs, you should expect people to be different then you. That doesn't fucking mean punch them till they listen it means they have a right to be gay just as one has a right to be straight.
> 
> Some people love the rights given to them, but hate to accept that they will be given to others too
> 
> EDIT: Isn't straight up punching a child considered child abuse?



according to the paster no if there gay.


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## AlanJohn (May 2, 2012)

Oh stupid America.


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## Pleng (May 2, 2012)

cris92x said:


> ...homosexuals are also more loyal in their relationships, and from personal experience have found them much more understanding and compassionate than straights. Homosexual men are more of a "man" than straight men because they have the courage to stand up for their beliefs and tell a majority who hate them that they are different.



You see... while less harmful than negative stereotyping, positive stereotyping is just as naive.

From _my_ personal experience a lot of (please note 'a lot of' does not mean all so pleas put your flame gins back down) the homosexuals I have met are rude, in your face, and act in ways that are totally inappropriate. This does not lead me to conclude that all homosexuals are arseholes, any more than your experiences should lead you to claim that homosexuals are more loyal in their relationships.

No matter how many people you've met in your life, it's a tiny tiny tiny percentage of an insignificant fraction of the total population of the world, and can therefore can never be considered a reasonable sized sample. Your experience is just that; your experience. Don't let it allow you to form stereotypes. If you do form stereotypes from your experiences, you then don't really have any right to criticize others for their (probably much more harmful) stereotyping...


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## Gahars (May 2, 2012)

Guys, can't you see what he's doing? This pastor is making himself, and his state, look so crazy and nuts that the rest of the United States looks like an extremely tolerant and loving environment for homosexuals by contrast!


----------



## smile72 (May 2, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Guys, can't you see what he's doing? This pastor is making himself, and his state, look so crazy and nuts that the rest of the United States looks like an extremely tolerant and loving environment for homosexuals by contrast!


There's still Alabama, Arkansas, Utah, and Mississippi. Oh I also forgot Missouri. Yeah, there are states a lot less tolerant than North Carolina, hell go South by one state, and you get less tolerant South Carolina.


----------



## spotanjo3 (May 2, 2012)

This church is FALSE. That's simple. Most false religion make me sick! They dont follow the bible most of time. I know becaue I was there. Disgusting false so called christian doctrine people. Ugh! Scary.

Therefore, gay people are not all girlish.. I have know some gay people who are very manly and macho.


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## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

I think I'll raise my sons on Professor Layton games so they will grow up to be perfect English gentlemen. Then I'll have no need to worry about them ever being gay.

Say I do have a gay son, which I almost was at one point, my line of thinking isn't that "You're gay at birth or you're not." Sexuality is a choice, and I'm not going to reject any homosexuals in my family. I'm just going to point them to Jesus and hopefully their journey with Him will change things. I'm not going to punch my children.



RockmanForte said:


> I have know some gay people who are very manly and macho.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08


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## Zero Aurion (May 2, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, can't you see what he's doing? This pastor is making himself, and his state, look so crazy and nuts that the rest of the United States looks like an extremely tolerant and loving environment for homosexuals by contrast!
> ...



Dont forget Texas, this helll hole is filled of homphobic racist rednecks... cant wait to get out of here...


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## Hells Malice (May 2, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> I think I'll raise my sons on Professor Layton games so they will grow up to be perfect English gentlemen. Then I'll have no need to worry about them ever being gay.
> 
> Say I do have a gay son, which I almost was at one point, my line of thinking isn't that "You're gay at birth or you're not." Sexuality is a choice, and I'm not going to reject any homosexuals in my family. I'm just going to point them to Jesus and hopefully their journey with Him will change things. I'm not going to punch my children.



lol people still believe being gay is a choice.
It was proven ages ago, you're born gay or straight. You can't raise someone straight, you can just oppress a gay child into being so (which causes a remarkable amount of mental scaring, I might add).
Being confused about your sexuality is COMPLETELY different.


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## Shano56 (May 2, 2012)

nothing wrong with hitting gay people...only problem is when you hit them bcuz they are gay


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Midna said:
> ...



And from the few lines of text Skelletonike and I wrote, you could as a whole judge and condemn us to such a curse.. ? Read again, key words here are "willing to accept whatever* the kids decide for themselves"* , and from Skell "once they're adults then they can be whatever they want" .. Know you are not alone to have the guts and stand for your ideals, be them different than mine is no trouble as i absolutely respect the freedom of others. For myself a parent role is to raise their kids into grown ups adults coming with their own, thought up decisions. Not let them do whatever they feel like doing to gain their "love", which would ultimately lead the poor souls wandering around their whole existence, cornered and derived by impulses from the flesh or society trends. Only sins to me are to deny the freedom of others and act against your own ideals.


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

smile72 said:


> North Carolina is in the South, thus bible belt, this isn't shocking.


Because punching children is a well-known Christian and Southern quality, not just a quality of dickheads.


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'll raise my sons on Professor Layton games so they will grow up to be perfect English gentlemen. Then I'll have no need to worry about them ever being gay.
> ...


When the first original couple of human beings are male and female it leave no place to being born homosexual, just saying.


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> lol people still believe being gay is a choice.
> It was proven ages ago, you're born gay or straight.


No you're not - it's a matter of chemical balance during growing up and influences of the society around you that builds a person's personality, sexuality and gender awareness. You're born a blank slate with no characteristic features whatsoever other than natural instincts.

Althought neither of the theories were scientifically proven as you claim.


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## Zero Aurion (May 2, 2012)

Everybody who thinks sexuality is a choice, i want to know 2 things:
1. Why in thee blue hell would anybody choose to be hated by the majority of the world
2. When exactly did you decide to be what ever your sexual orientation is?


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > TehSkull said:
> ...



And I suppose you believe there is no homosexuality in nature either? Please. The "gay gene" has been found, it has been proven that it's something you're born with.


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## Kioku_Dreams (May 2, 2012)

...all I got out of that was that he's an ignorant twit..


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> And I suppose you believe there is no homosexuality in nature either? Please. The "gay gene" has been found, it has been proven that it's something you're born with.





> *	Chromosome linkage studies*
> 
> Chromosome linkage studies of sexual orientation have indicated the presence of multiple contributing genetic factors throughout the genome. In 1993, Dean Hamer and colleagues published findings from a linkage analysis of a sample of 76 gay brothers and their families. Hamer _et al._ found that the gay men had more gay male uncles and cousins on the maternal side of the family than on the paternal side. Gay brothers who showed this maternal pedigree were then tested for X chromosome linkage, using twenty-two markers on the X chromosome to test for similar alleles. In another finding, thirty-three of the forty sibling pairs tested were found to have similar alleles in the distal region of Xq28, which was significantly higher than the expected rates of 50% for fraternal brothers. This was popularly dubbed as the 'gay gene' in the media, causing significant controversy. Sanders _et al._ in 1998 reported on their similar study, in which they found that 13% of uncles of gay brothers on the maternal side were homosexual, compared to 6% on the paternal side.
> 
> A later analysis by Hu _et al._ replicated and refined the earlier findings. This study revealed that 67% of gay brothers in a new saturated sample shared a marker on the X chromosome at Xq28.Although* two other studies* (Bailey _et al._, 1999; McKnight and Malcolm, 2000) *failed to find a preponderance of gay relatives in the maternal line of homosexual men*, a rigorous replication of the maternal loading was reported on samples in Italy in England. One study by Rice _et al._ in 1999* failed to replicate the Xq28 linkage results.* Meta-analysis of all available linkage data indicates a significant link to Xq28, but also indicates that *additional genes must be present to account for the full heritability of sexual orientation. *A recent study of 894 heterosexual and 694 homosexual men found *no evidence of sex linkage.*



Saying that "Gay" or "Hetero" is herreditary is like saying that black males have a biological inclination towards criminal activity or that asians are genetically worse drivers. There *may *be some genetic links, however they are not always present and they come in various combinations. People may be more or less inclined towards either side but it's the period of puberty that's the very epicenter of instilling a given sexuality. Nobody has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that sexuality is hereditary in any way.


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## Sicklyboy (May 2, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Only sins to me are to deny the freedom of others and act against your own ideals.






koimayeul said:


> I side with skellotonike views on the subject wholeheartedly. Also, parents are not to be loved by their kids but to raise them into proper sentient human beings. Period.






Skelletonike said:


> I have nothing against homosexuals, one of my best friends is actually gay, however, personally I wouldn't want my kids to be gay, and *no friggin way in hell would I let them do girlish stuff, while they're my kids and at my place, they'll behave like they should*, once they're adults then they can be whatever they want. xP



Because that's _totally_ not denying others freedom and acting against their own ideals.

You're basically saying that if your son is born gay, you're going to raise them saying "once you're out of my house, you can love whoever you want to love, even if it is others of the same sex.  Until then, though, you're liking members of the opposite sex whether you like it or not."

That's not something that you're just like "Oh, well, dad says I'm not allowed to like other boys, so I guess I'll try to be interested in girls even though I don't find any attractive qualities in them."  It just doesn't work like that.

Also: anyone making a pool on how soon this all is going to get locked or deleted?


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## Zero Aurion (May 2, 2012)

I love how ppl are avoiding my questions... you know why? Because they know they're wrong and they can't answer when they made the choice of their sexual orientation and why one would want to be hated by the majority of the worlds population


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > And I suppose you believe there is no homosexuality in nature either? Please. The "gay gene" has been found, it has been proven that it's something you're born with.
> ...



Interesting. I don't mind being proven wrong. But the fact of the matter is, no one chooses their sexuality. They are born with it.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Interesting. I don't mind being proven wrong. But the fact of the matter is, no one chooses their sexuality. They are born with it.


That's simply not true. You may be born with an _inclination _towards either but at the end of the day, you are shaped by that what is around you and your own hormone production. Some produce more masculine hormones, some produce less. Some produce more feminene hormones, some produce less. The balance between those is the determinant of sexuality which is established during the period of puberty.

Ever heard of any 3-4 year old boys going all "oh, I am so gay for Leonardo Di Caprio" or girls saying "See that girl? Dat ass!"? No, you didn't because their bodies are not mass-producing hormones yet and their sexuality is non-existant. In most cases they don't care about the gender but the social constructs around them determine their approach towards their female/male friends.


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## Narayan (May 2, 2012)

i don't think you are born with it, and i don't think you can choose to be gay either.

you grow up as one.

edit: foxi4's explanation is good.


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## gamefan5 (May 2, 2012)

p1ngpong said:


> God help the next person who derails this thread into an offtopic bitchy little flame war.


Hahaha. What did you expect? It's kind of a highly controversial subject XD. 

As for me, If I'm a christian but If I found that my kids were gay. I would support them.


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

Just saying, even if it was a choice, I would support my son in that decision. Curbing bad behavior is one thing, curbing sexuality is a completely different animal.


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## matt382 (May 2, 2012)

Zero Aurion said:


> Everybody who thinks sexuality is a choice, i want to know 2 things:
> 1. Why in thee blue hell would anybody choose to be hated by the majority of the world
> 2. When exactly did you decide to be what ever your sexual orientation is?



To answer your first question.. They aren't choosing to be hated by the world, they are choosing to have a relationship towards the same gender.

Personally I think people are gay because they feel more comfort and connection being with the same gender, than the opposite gender.

EDIT:
In all fairness, to think that the main focus of homosexuality is the fact that they could be hated is slightly ignorant.


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## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

Zero Aurion said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'll raise my sons on Professor Layton games so they will grow up to be perfect English gentlemen. Then I'll have no need to worry about them ever being gay.
> ...



Why? For love. What more reason could they need?

As for when I decided to be straight, 13 or 14. Past generations this wasn't as clear cut a choice as it is now. Homosexuality is so pervasive in our culture that the question is asked to people who wouldn't have otherwise considered it to begin with.


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## DarkShinigami (May 2, 2012)

and once again i loose faith in humanity(crap my faith in humanity is getting so small it'd be best not to use that statement)


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## nando (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I don't mind being proven wrong. But the fact of the matter is, no one chooses their sexuality. They are born with it.
> ...




you seriously think hormones decide your sexuality? then explain bears (not the animals but the gay men that are huge and hairy), how could they possibly be producing too much estrogen? what specific hormones are you talking about?


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> you seriously think hormones decide your sexuality? then explain bears (not the animals but the gay men that are huge and hairy), how could they possibly be producing too much estrogen? what specific hormones are you talking about?


It's not about the amounts of each but about the balance between them, and you missed the part about "during the period of puberty". Simpifying matters of sexuality to genetics is a crime againts reason.


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> Because that's _totally_ not denying others freedom and acting against their own ideals.
> 
> You're basically saying that if your son is born gay, you're going to raise them saying "once you're out of my house, you can love whoever you want to love, even if it is others of the same sex.  Until then, though, you're liking members of the opposite sex whether you like it or not."
> 
> ...



Freedom as adults for sure. As growing kids not so much as the world we live in is a dangerous place with abducters, killers, rapers, thieves and so forth.. Parents duty to shelter kids from that, until they can deal with it properly. Just think, who would like to tempt the devil with cute naive children in flower dresses; not me that is certain!!



Zero Aurion said:


> I love how ppl are avoiding my questions... you know why? Because they know they're wrong and they can't answer when they made the choice of their sexual orientation and why one would want to be hated by the majority of the worlds population



That choice is made throughout a person's whole existence as far as self awareness go. About the hate from the majority of the world on gay, or should is say homosexual people as the word gay seem to focus only on male and not female lesbians, it is thankfully and hopefully being more and more accepted.


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## nando (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> nando said:
> 
> 
> > you seriously think hormones decide your sexuality? then explain bears (not the animals but the gay men that are huge and hairy), how could they possibly be producing too much estrogen? what specific hormones are you talking about?
> ...




most kids know they are gay before puberty hits. i knew i was attracted to men long before that. it has nothing to do with hormones.

i recall when i was about six watching a beer commercial of adults by a swimming pool. i remember noticing a particular man with really hairy legs. i remember liking it very much. i remember knowing it was wrong according to everyone around me. i never talked about it, there was nothing in my environment to encourage me. i simply grew with my internal struggle till i was out on my own. my environment didn't advocate any reason for me to grow up gay. i didn't even know gays really existed, i thought i was on my own.


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> That choice is made throughout a person's whole existence as far as self awareness go.


The word "choice" is quite an unfortunate one to use in this debate - I don't exactly choose when I have a boner, neither do I choose to be attracted to a given person on a sexual level.

I would assume that you don't either, unless you're asexual. By the way, asexual people seem to be excluded from our little chit-chat, I wonder why.



nando said:


> most kids know they are gay before puberty hits. i knew i was attracted to men long before that. it has nothing to do with hormones.


Puberty doesn't just "hit" at a pre-set moment in your life - it's a gradual process. You don't immediately grow a bush of hairs on your intimate areas - some changes begin on the internal part of your body and mind.


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## Narayan (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > nando said:
> ...


what made you like men?

no offence meant but simply answer the question for i think there was something that made you like men.


----------



## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > That choice is made throughout a person's whole existence as far as self awareness go.
> ...



Now we're really getting complicated, because there are people who don't _love _the same gender, but are sexually attracted to the same gender. Would that still be considered homosexuality? Just looking at the word, I'd say so. So then what are men who love men but don't have sex with men?


----------



## gamefan5 (May 2, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > koimayeul said:
> ...


Oh oh I KNOW!!!! XD


Spoiler



It's called Bromance.


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## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

I appreciate that you folks are being largely civil in your conversation, please keep that up.

I believe in gradiations of things before I do black and whites, and in this case, you've got quite a few bisexuals to back that notion up :3

Anyway, carry on, be respectful, and I'll be looking in from time to time.


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> Now we're really getting complicated, because there are people who don't _love _the same gender, but are sexually attracted to the same gender. Would that still be considered homosexuality?


Love and sexuality don't always go together - love is a made-up term to describe a close relation between people. It's more emotional than physical although has roots in a physical and chemical reaction. There can be love without sex and sex without love, so yes, attraction alone would be considered homosexuality.


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## matt382 (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Love and sexuality don't always go together - love is a made-up term to describe a close relation between partners.



I agree with this, love and sex are two different things. I can safely say that I love my best friends, even though they are male. But I am not sexually attracted to them. Love is more to do with the care and commitment towards another person.


----------



## nando (May 2, 2012)

Narayan said:


> what made you like men?
> 
> no offence meant but simply answer the question for i think there was something that made you like men.



yes there was something. it's called men. like i said i noticed the legs. i stared at the structure of them, they are quite different than women's. i noticed everything that made a male body manly and i found it appealing visually. the shape of shoulders and neck was specially attractive. i didn't think about making out with men or sex, but i couldn't stop noticing/looking. women were interesting because they were different, but nothing about their soft curves, boobies, etc ever appeal to me.

i never emulated women, i would have been beaten blind by my parent's if i did, but i never wanted to in any way. i liked been a boy and i felt lucky to be a boy and i wanted to grow up manly.


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> Narayan said:
> 
> 
> > what made you like men?
> ...


Being gay and being effeminate have little to do with eachother, I don't know why people just assume that being gay will magically make someone act feminene - that's entirely a matter of upbringing and personality.

I know straight men who act girly and straight women who are manlier than most men, so I suppose it proves this point.

It's even more infuriating when homosexual people act feminene (when male) or masculine (when female) because that's how the society expects them to act - they dress differently, they put on voices, I mean, what the hell? It's so ridiculous that it created the "gay voice" stereotype - why do they do that, I just don't get it.

I'm straight but I don't pretend to be some sort of a he-man with a manly voice and overgrown muscles just because that's the stereotype of the manly man - that's stupid, I am who I am. How I look and act should not be determined by whom I'm sexually attracted to.


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > That choice is made throughout a person's whole existence as far as self awareness go.
> ...


Yes i should say, the decision to take action in one way or another. Either it be coming from my thoughtful reasoning or from my body flesh, hormones, genes, whatever impulse is the real question at hand, at the end of the day it will still be my decision.

To get more personal, i think of my sexual orientation as hetero as i feel no attraction for my gender, have conscious fantasy and nightly dreams about women to pinpoint me about it, have hopes and dreams about opposite gender relationships and so forth.. But get me a sexy corssdresser or transgender with no visible genitals doing me the lap dance and i WILL have the sexual impulse, only flat chest and penis could drive me away.. I have no shame to admit it. Will i give in or not is definitely the choice available in this one situation. But ultimately i know myself and a decision from an impulse would not satisfy me and be disrespectful for the crossdressing/transgender person getting me in such a state of passion. I need meaning in every aspect of my existence, that's just me. And passion is dangerous as far as i can tell for myself.

Fun fact, it reminds me of Steam crazy 75% deals on Summer and Christmas sales.. impulse is too strong and Passion > Reason at that time of the year for me. Lol


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## triassic911 (May 2, 2012)

Look how much discussion this topic brings up... People should post topics like this more often! Seems to drive traffic here.


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## Alaude (May 2, 2012)

well what my understanding is....
Gay is a disease as it goes against the natural order!!!.
But still violence is not a solution for correcting em . there are many ways to correct ppl but violence is not one of them


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Yes i should say, the decision to take action in one way or another. Either it be coming from my thoughtful reasoning or from my body flesh, hormones, genes, whatever impulse is the real question at hand, at the end of the day it will still be my decision.
> 
> To get more personal, i think of my sexual orientation as hetero as i feel no attraction for my gender, have conscious fantasy and nightly dreams about women to pinpoint me about it, have hopes and dreams about opposite gender relationships and so forth.. But get me a sexy corssdresser or transgender with no visible genitals doing me the lap dance and i WILL have the sexual impulse, only flat chest and penis could drive me away.. I have no shame to admit it. Will i give in or not is definitely the choice available in this one situation. But ultimately i know myself and a decision from an impulse would not satisfy me and be disrespectful for the crossdressing/transgender person getting me in such a state of passion. I need meaning in every aspect of my existence, that's just me. And passion is dangerous as far as i can tell for myself.
> 
> Fun fact, it reminds me of Steam crazy 75% deals on Summer and Christmas sales.. impulse is too strong and Passion > Reason at that time of the year for me. Lol


To further validate this point, think back to "_There’s Something About Miriam"_.

Let's not dwell into the gender side of things not to complicate it any further as gender had little to do with it. Miriam is a transgender model, he/she (using both not to unnecessarily infuriate either side of the transgender debate) has every single quality of a woman as far as looks are concerned and the male contestants of the show were quite fervently fighting for his/her approval. The idea was that the fact that he/she was born male was to be revealed at the final straight at which the winner was to choose whether he wants to accept the prize (one-week cruise with Miriam on a boat with... uhm... implied fun involved plus 10.000 pounds) or reject it. While the winner originally said "yes", he later rejected the prize and even sued the company for emotional damage.

The moment he learned there was a penis involved, he just went "nope". It was _all mental_ - there was nothing about Miriam that he could find non-appealing - he/she was a damn top model.


----------



## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

luffy_gear_second said:


> well what my understanding is....
> Gay is a disease as it goes against the natural order!!!.
> But still violence is not a solution for correcting em . there are many ways to correct ppl but violence is not one of them


Are you trolling or.. ? Not sure


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

luffy_gear_second said:


> well what my understanding is....
> Gay is a disease as it goes against the natural order!!!.
> But still violence is not a solution for correcting em . there are many ways to correct ppl but violence is not one of them





 Leave​


----------



## Skelletonike (May 2, 2012)

luffy_gear_second said:


> well what my understanding is....
> Gay is a disease as it goes against the natural order!!!.
> But still violence is not a solution for correcting em . there are many ways to correct ppl but violence is not one of them


You're kidding right? =S

Edit: Double Ninja'd


----------



## Sicklyboy (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> nando said:
> 
> 
> > Narayan said:
> ...



I too don't understand where people keep bringing in gays cross dressing.  Believe me, I know a good handful of homosexual males and females.  I know a bunch from work, from school, from my other friends.  Never once have I seen a guy (seriously) wearing a dress.  I've had straight friends dared to come to school in dresses or fishnet before, which was kinda disturbing, but that's the most cross dressing I've seen.  Girls dressing as guys is kinda a different story, because a girl dressing/acting kinda tomboyish is fairly socially acceptable.  

I've seen gay guys try to be the "pretty boy" very often, that's about it.  Where they try to have a better fashion sense and higher grooming standards than other guys, in the sense that they try to be fairly slim and lean, spend some money on some nice clothes (possibly designer ones, rather than cheap Walmart or Target shit), some accessories like nice sunglasses, watches, maybe a piercing, and a nice hair cut, as opposed to me, sitting here in frayed to hell denim shorts, a red Excision tshirt I got at a rave, facial hair, kinda overweight, and a messy haircut.

I seriously... have never seen a gay guy act like a girl or dress like one.  And like I said, I've seen gay women dress like guys, but I've seen straight women dress like guys too.




luffy_gear_second said:


> Gay is a disease as it goes against the natural order!!!.




Get the fuck out of this thread.  Now.


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## koimayeul (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Yes i should say, the decision to take action in one way or another. Either it be coming from my thoughtful reasoning or from my body flesh, hormones, genes, whatever impulse is the real question at hand, at the end of the day it will still be my decision.
> ...


Lol i would have refuse the cruise also but not raise any juridic shit.

Edit: Not sure from the text is he/she post-op or not? Artifical vagina i would reconsider and cruise away almost surely. 
(Thx for police change it killed my eyes on my monitor ^^)


----------



## nando (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Being gay and being effeminate have little to do with eachother, I don't know why people just assume that being gay will magically make someone act feminene - that's entirely a matter of upbringing and personality.
> 
> I know straight men who act girly and straight women who are manlier than most men, so I suppose it proves this point.
> 
> ...



gender roles are completely societal and nothing to do with our real selves imo. with that said i think there is a reason for some gay men to act gay and i think it has to do with the same reason we all play gender roles and that's signaling. in a world when all the gay people act exactly like straight people, how would we ever detect each other?


----------



## Zero Aurion (May 2, 2012)

DarkShinigami said:


> and once again i loose faith in humanity(crap my faith in humanity is getting so small it'd be best not to use that statement)



I lost mine completely years ago


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> gender roles are completely societal and nothing to do with our real selves imo. with that said i think there is a reason for some gay men to act gay and i think it has to do with the same reason we all play gender roles and that's signaling. in a world when all the gay people act exactly like straight people, how would we ever detect each other?


It's weird to see that comming from you - you were the one who brought bears into the discussion, they're hardly "acting gay".

The gay stereotype is a fashion-sensitive, emotional homosexual who's "fabulous" in everything he does and puts a lot of time and effort into his looks - bears don't do that and yet they're gay.

Some gay men "act gay" because they're expected to do so, much like for centuries women were enclosed in their kitchens because that's what was expected from them. They think that if they emphesize this stereotype they will gain more freedom and acceptance, but the truth is that they put their own shackles on themselves.



koimayeul said:


> Edit: Not sure from the text is he/she post-op or not? Artifical vagina i would reconsider and cruise away almost surely.


Sorry about the font - no idea how that happened. Copy-pasting from text editors is always fun.

As far as the question is concerned, I'm pretty sure I recall *a penis* being involved as it was painfuly obvious when he/she was wearing bikini's - the guys just didn't notice or didn't want to notice. They were blinded by the "good looks".


----------



## nando (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> nando said:
> 
> 
> > gender roles are completely societal and nothing to do with our real selves imo. with that said i think there is a reason for some gay men to act gay and i think it has to do with the same reason we all play gender roles and that's signaling. in a world when all the gay people act exactly like straight people, how would we ever detect each other?
> ...




but bears are totally gay. not in the stereotypical way that most people think gays should be but within us gays we identify bears strongly with gay culture and they are still signals between us and it is an act like any other gender role. they even have their own little flag.

we keep inventing gender roles, but they are all an act. some are to blend in and some are to stand out.

edit: currently within my little community of gays, effeminate gays are not very desired and there is a particular interest with "the guy next door" - so total normal guy guy is becoming the new gay. the metrosexual pretty much killed the fashion gay, now it's all about the no non sense dude.


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## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

triassic911 said:


> Look how much discussion this topic brings up... People should post topics like this more often! Seems to drive traffic here.


This brings a more interesting question. Are there a lot of gay gamers or a lot of gay Nintendo fans?


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> but bears are totally gay. not in the stereotypical way that most people think gays should be but within us gays we identify bears strongly with gay culture and they are still signals between us and it is an act like any other gender role.


Honestly? I don't think I would *recognize* a bear in a crowd of motorcycle enthusiasts, and the very idea of signing up under a common denominator is recognition by the outside world.

There's nothing even remotely homosexual in being a bit on the hairy side, being generally "huge" and wearing facial hair of sorts, neither is wearing leather jackets and so on and so forth. You recognize bears because they're familiar to you, but they're not familiar to the non-gay community, at least in my opinion.


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## gamefan5 (May 2, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> triassic911 said:
> 
> 
> > Look how much discussion this topic brings up... People should post topics like this more often! Seems to drive traffic here.
> ...


Which bring us to another question.


Spoiler



Is it a problem for you?


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## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > triassic911 said:
> ...


----------



## Skelletonike (May 2, 2012)

I don't know much about it, but the way someone acts around other people or talks, doesn't directly have to do with their gender, I mean, most of my gay friends are completely normal people, they just like other guys instead of girls. Although it is true that there is that idea of what a manly man is and all that, personally the type of guy's I admire the most (manliness wise) are the biker guys, they're just so badass, some of them might be homosexual while others might just be hetero, they're still friggin manly imho regardless of tastes mind you. xP

Edit: Personally I find hairy men cool too. xP


----------



## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> triassic911 said:
> 
> 
> > Look how much discussion this topic brings up... People should post topics like this more often! Seems to drive traffic here.
> ...






Spoiler












...I don't think so.

At first I was going to use a totally different picture, but I would totally get warn'd bad for it lol.


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## Skelletonike (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > triassic911 said:
> ...


I want that Samus.


----------



## mthrnite (May 2, 2012)

So, the pastor kinda wants to take it back, kinda, to a degree, in a way:

Link to story.

"If I had to say it again, I would say it differently, no doubt," Harris said Tuesday. "Those weren't planned words, but what I do stand by is that the word of God makes it clear that effeminate behavior is ungodly. I'm not going to compromise on that."


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## Depravo (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> So, the pastor kinda wants to take it back, kinda, to a degree


Perhaps he suddenly realised what century he was living in.


----------



## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> So, the pastor kinda wants to take it back, kinda, to a degree, in a way:
> 
> Link to story.
> 
> "If I had to say it again, I would say it differently, no doubt," Harris said Tuesday. "Those weren't planned words, but what I do stand by is that the word of God makes it clear that effeminate behavior is ungodly. I'm not going to compromise on that."


Lololol "effeminate behavior"

This guy has a few screws loose. The Bible does say things about homosexuality (nothing too specific though, mind you), it does not say anything about "effeminate behavior."


----------



## nando (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Honestly? I don't think I would *recognize* a bear in a crowd of motorcycle enthusiasts, and the very idea of signing up under a common denominator is recognition by the outside world.
> 
> There's nothing even remotely homosexual in being a bit on the hairy side, being generally "huge" and wearing facial hair of sorts, neither is wearing leather jackets and so on and so forth. You recognize bears because they're familiar to you, but they're not familiar to the non-gay community, at least in my opinion.



like i said, it's societal. gay bears are actually very self defining, they even have their own flag and many will not have sex with non-bears. same with leather daddies.




TehSkull said:


> triassic911 said:
> 
> 
> > Look how much discussion this topic brings up... People should post topics like this more often! Seems to drive traffic here.
> ...




there are. geeky gay game nerds are my favorite kind of gay 
i've been to several gay gamer gatherings. fighting games tend to be favored at these events.

edit: and no, there is no orgies at these parties. it's all PG


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## The Pi (May 2, 2012)

I don't think I've ever seen one of "these" threads as calm before. I'm actually rather amazed.

I fail to understand how punching a kid would "help" the situation. When your mother shouts at you for climbing that tree; you want to climb it some more. Anyway, in my opinion your orientation is neither a choice nor a trait you are born with. Most people find it hard to answer the question "When did you decide you were gay/straight/bi/whatever?" I don't have a clue. As for being born with an orientation, it seems unlikely, it's more of a psychological thing.

I'm bi myself, when I came out. I did get a bit of shit from people. Funny how people change isn't it? One thing I do despise though, is the use of the discrimination card at the drop of a hat. Saying "that's homophobic" or "that's racist" or "that's sexist" or whatever annoys the living hell out of me. Fair enough when you've actually been discriminated against but when you don't get a job please don't say "is is because I'm gay/black/a woman".

If homosexuality were the majority then would the heterosexuals conform? Of course not. Then why should we?

And if you don't know the meaning of the word “disease” please don't use it.

Of course, this is my opinion and I'm not stating any of this is as fact.


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## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > triassic911 said:
> ...


It was a multiple choice question.



The Pi said:


> I don't think I've never seen one of "these" threads as calm before. I'm actually rather amazed.



Because I decided to be more careful about my words this time. Nothing people could really rage at. Plus both sides (pro-acceptance and anti-homosexual) think that the pastor is being extreme, so we all silently agreed to hate on him instead of each other.


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## Judas18 (May 2, 2012)

They let people like this breed? Excuse me while I prolapse.


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## nando (May 2, 2012)

The Pi said:


> I don't think I've never seen one of "these" threads as calm before. I'm actually rather amazed.




that's because school's not out yet


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## triassic911 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> The Pi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I've never seen one of "these" threads as calm before. I'm actually rather amazed.
> ...


While this is funny, this is also true. Younger people have not had enough life experience to determine things for themselves, so they go by whatever it is they are influenced by.


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> The Pi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I've never seen one of "these" threads as calm before. I'm actually rather amazed.
> ...


I think that the recent actions of the staff showed that users can't go around talking crap without getting warn'd or banned - certain flamewar instigators and troublemakers have been banned recently and I think it works somewhat like a scarecrow on the rest.

...but I ain't care! I'mma gonna troll anyways. 



TehSkull said:


> This guy has a few screws loose. The Bible does say things about homosexuality (nothing too specific though, mind you), it does not say anything about "effeminate behavior."





> _"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." ~Leviticus 18:22 KJV_
> _"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." ~Leviticus 20:13 KJV_



...except the Bible wasn't written by God but by men. If God wanted us to have Bibles, it would rain Bibles on sundays. It's God.


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## Sicklyboy (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > This guy has a few screws loose. The Bible does say things about homosexuality (nothing too specific though, mind you), it does not say anything about "effeminate behavior."
> ...



Aaand... here's a very interesting link on this subject, specifically referencing Leviticus.

http://biblethumping...-homosexuality/

And here we go...



> "'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Leviticus, 15:19
> "'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. Leviticus, 15:28
> On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. Leviticus, 15:29
> The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge. Leviticus, 15:30



He's crazy.

Edit: Added a few more passages to give some context, fixed formatting.


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## nando (May 2, 2012)

lol, leviticus invented cooties


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## notmeanymore (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> nando said:
> 
> 
> > The Pi said:
> ...



The old testament is a good reference for what God does and does not like, but it's not a good reference to know what we are and are not supposed to do. Christians are not bound by the Old Testament.

Also:


> All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16)


 The word "inspire" is used, and it literally means "God-breathed"


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> The old testament is a good reference for what God does and does not like, but it's not a good reference to know what we are and are not supposed to do. Christians are not bound by the Old Testament.


Uhhh... yes, technically they are, not sure where you're getting that from. The Bible is the holy book of Christians, how you treat it is a matter of your personal judgement but TECHNICALLY whatever's in the Bible bounds you.


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## The Pi (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > The old testament is a good reference for what God does and does not like, but it's not a good reference to know what we are and are not supposed to do. Christians are not bound by the Old Testament.
> ...



Liberal christians believe the bible is a moral guide.
Fundamentalist christians believe the bible is truth.

As a general rule.


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## The Catboy (May 2, 2012)

I just want to point out there is more in the Bible people
http://www.11points....t_you_do_anyway

Not to mention most parts about homosexuality were not about homosexuality and were edited later on to be about it.
The Bible at best is a very weak argument about homosexuality and really just stop being used so often.


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## chyyran (May 2, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> I just want to point out there is more in the Bible people
> http://www.11points....t_you_do_anyway
> 
> Not to mention most parts about homosexuality were not about homosexuality and were edited later on to be about it.
> The Bible at best is a very weak argument about homosexuality and really just stop being used so often.



This is why I'm not Christian


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## Zero Aurion (May 2, 2012)

I wonder how many people here realize that the Bible has been re-written multiple times to change the meanings, and add stuff...

Also... Here's somethin:
The Bible says God loves everybody, does it not?.... and then it says he hates homosexuals and bisexuals, and everything else... It says love thy neighbor.... yet it says kill thy  neighbor if he's bi... The damned book is full of contradictory statements...

So, I guess it's "Love thy neighbor unless he's different" right?

Anyways... here's a damned good idea.. How about you live your life the way you want? it's YOUR life, is it not? Last I checked, ppl own only their own lives, not other's lives. Live the way you want, if anybody wants to tell you different, then f*ck them.


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## Advi (May 2, 2012)

Let he who is without sin cast the first punch?


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## Veho (May 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > Christians are not bound by the Old Testament.
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_law_in_Christianity



> Although Christianity affirms that the Pentateuch is part of Scripture that is inspired of God, Christian tradition, in this case similar to Jewish tradition, denies that all of the Old Covenant still applies directly to Christians, but different arguments are used to reach that conclusion and there are differences of opinion within Christianity as to which parts, if any, still apply. The predominant Christian view is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ended or set aside some or all of the Old Covenant.


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## Lacius (May 2, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfBOGXFkC8c


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## nando (May 2, 2012)

i like to point out that contrary to popular believe, we gays actually do love jesus



Spoiler


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## Foxi4 (May 2, 2012)

The Pi said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > TehSkull said:
> ...


Very much so. Thank goodness I'm quite liberal when it comes to the Bible.


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## Gahars (May 2, 2012)

And wow, this escalated even further since I left. Still, it's nice to see that a flame war hasn't erupted to burn this thread to cinders; firm handshakes all around, GBAtemp.

Choice or not (while Foxi's information is certainly enlightening, that doesn't strike me as leaving any room for choice either), gay people are, well, people. Who are we to deny them their happiness (or just go straight to face punching) anyway? The sooner we can put an end to the petty bigotry and prejudice, the faster we can begin to move on.


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## DinohScene (May 2, 2012)

>North Carolina Pastor


Stopped reading there.
If there is something against gay people it usually involves religion somehow.


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## Crimson Ghoul (May 2, 2012)

It's not the marriage they're against. it's secretly the sex. Because everyone knows that the Abrahamic god has this thing about sex.


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## Deleted member 282441 (May 2, 2012)

nando said:


> The Pi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I've never seen one of "these" threads as calm before. I'm actually rather amazed.
> ...


*SUMMER IS COMING *
*BRACE YOURSELVES FOR THE 11 YEAR OLDS*


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## MelodieOctavia (May 2, 2012)

10 pages and it's not locked. It's a goddamn miracle.

Anyway, as far as the (lol) bible verse thats says being gay is against God (lol again)...



> “You shall not eat any abomination. 4  These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, 5 the deer, the gazelle, the roebuck, the wild goat, the ibex,[a] the antelope, and the mountain sheep. 6 Every animal that parts the hoof and has the hoof cloven in two and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat. 7 Yet of those that chew the cud or have the hoof cloven you shall not eat these: the camel, the hare, and the rock badger, because they chew the cud but do not part the hoof, are unclean for you. 8 *And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.*



Uh oh...You like porkchops? Bacon, Sausage? Ham? Aw shit, son. You are now unclean. And you thought it was against God just for the Jewish and the Muslims



> _"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads." -- Leviticus 19:27_



Have you ever shaved? Yeah? BAM! You have just pissed off God.


My point is, there is a bunch of crazy shit in the Old Testament, and if you're going to take everything at face value, then take EVERYTHING at face value.


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## yuyuyup (May 2, 2012)

Lacius said:


>



I think the "feminizing the fetus" is an interesting theory but I think there might be a plethora of factors that determine sexual preference.  I absolutely believe that people can be born gay, but I don't think it's such a stretch for someone to gain such feelings later in life.  People treat same-sex relationships like it's the biggest deal in the world.  But as the subject becomes less taboo, I think future generations will yield much more experimental and open minded behavior.

I know this plays into the argument that "gays can be changed," but even if someone DECIDED to be gay, who cares ?  Many pro-homosexual arguments can be made; how it is evident throughout nature, how there are great same-sex parents because they don't have kids by accident, etc etc.  By insisting ALL gays are BORN "that way," it's using the same tactic of using an unprovable theory.  Why ?  All anti-gay arguments are rooted in Christian minutia.  The same minutia that says you will burn in hell for eating shellfish, mixing fabrics, etc etc.


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## Deleted-236924 (May 2, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> 10 pages and it's not locked. It's a goddamn miracle.


Because people are actually having a civilised discussion on the subject.
I'd think that would be the miracle.


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## spotanjo3 (May 3, 2012)

Most Christians are full of hypocrites. According to this bible:  "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me, 'But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (_Matthew 15:7-9_)

I am very ashamed of churches for their misinterpretations and cold hearts such as give em a good punch or force them to be straight. No wonder, many gay and lesbian people took their lives by suicidal. Those churches are sickening to my stomach!

*Is gay a choice* ? No.. *Is straight a choice* ? No! So be it. Problem solved!

Many people in churches have misinterpretations.. This link is good for us to understand something:

http://www.cohss.org...x.php/about-gay


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## Catastrophic (May 3, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> 10 pages and it's not locked. It's a goddamn miracle.


compared to other sites I've seen, it definitely is! When it comes to these religious arguments like weather or not being gay is a sin, I die a little inside. People should learn to keep their religion to themselves instead of forcing it on other people.

there are many mainstream religions out there. Who says your religion happens to be more right than other ones?


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## RPG_Lover (May 3, 2012)

Catastrophic said:


> there are many mainstream religions out there. Who says your religion happens to be more right than other ones?



But would the kind of outrage that was made against this pastor be generated if the initial statements were made by another religious leader - like Islamic or Jewish?


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## Hyro-Sama (May 3, 2012)

Geez. Why do people get so anal when people say they believe homosexually is a choice?


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## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Geez. why do people get so anal when people Say they believe homosexually is a choice?


Because it's not a choice and saying it's a choice implies that it can be changed.


----------



## nando (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Geez. why do people get so anal when people Say they believe homosexually is a choice?
> ...




and you are placing the blame on us for whatever mistreatment we may receive from it.

edit: OP example, punch your kid in the face, they deserve it for choosing to be gay.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Geez. why do people get so anal when people Say they believe homosexually is a choice?
> ...



If you can choose/change your gender then why not sexual orientation?


----------



## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hyro-Sama said:
> ...


Because you can never change your gender. Despite what people think, you are born male or female and your body will always be genetically male or female. You can change the outside of your body all you want, but you will always be what you were born.
The same goes for sexuality, genetics plays a huge role in human sexuality.

Also did you choose to be straight?


----------



## Phoenix Goddess (May 3, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> If you can choose/change your gender then why not sexual orientation?



Surgery can't make you heterosexual.


----------



## Hells Malice (May 3, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > TehSkull said:
> ...



Hahahahahahahaha.
Ah thank you I needed that after work. Go take a 9th grade science class and come back to debate this on a scientific level, you'll be ready by then.
You might get away with 7th grade.


----------



## Zero Aurion (May 3, 2012)

Notice how when asked the question "When did you decide to be straight" The people who say sexuality is a choice decide to stfu... funny, really lol

You can REALIZE what your sexual orientation is.. but you can't exactly choose...

For example, I never knew I was bi until I realized I was checkin other males out and thought they were attractive. I've been attracted to chicks my whole life. Does that mean I made the choice to be bi? No, it just means I realized I'm bi.

So for all those people that wanna carry out that bible verse about how Bisexuals should be killed... Bring it, I'm not afraid to die for being myself.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 3, 2012)

AlanJohn said:


> Oh stupid America.



Oh, right. Like America is the _ONLY_ stupid country out there.

Now who's being intolerant?


----------



## gamefan5 (May 3, 2012)

Comment deleted.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (May 3, 2012)

this is too far....I..uh..don't really care for this sort of thing...but i'm not going to hate anyone for being like that.....let alone hit them 

let people be people. live and let live. different strokes for different folks. If they arn't sexually attracted to the opposite sex, THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. NOT YOURS.

if you don't like your freedom from being taken away.

then stop trying to take it from others.

this guy reminds me of another jack thompson...


----------



## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

Phoenix Goddess said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > If you can choose/change your gender then why not sexual orientation?
> ...


http://neuro.psychia...rticleID=103849
http://thinkprogress...al-orientation/

Read these. If this can actually happen, can just messing with the brain by surgery affect you?



Zero Aurion said:


> Notice how when asked the question "When did you decide to be straight" The people who say sexuality is a choice decide to stfu... funny, really lol
> 
> You can REALIZE what your sexual orientation is.. but you can't exactly choose...
> 
> ...


Maybe because it different with other people and it not so black and white?

Let me ask you this, why can't you choose? Seems to me that they still have a choice not to be gay or straight. It isn't set in stone.

Maybe because if they try to choose at a early time, they will get a "good" punch by someone that doesn't like the choice.


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## SickPuppy (May 3, 2012)

By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning. >>>>BROKEN BRAIN, deal with it


----------



## Zero Aurion (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning.



My female dog humps my other female dog all the time.


Spoiler



An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are of homosexual males. They steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs. More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs, possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land. The same reasoning has been applied to male flamingo pairs raising chicks.

Studies have shown that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild exhibit homosexual behavior.

Mallards form male-female pairs only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all pairs in a population.

In early February 2004 the New York Times reported that Roy and Silo, a male pair of chinstrap penguins in the Central Park Zoo in New York City had successfully hatched and fostered a female chick from a fertile egg they had been given to incubate. Other penguins in New York zoos have also been reported to have formed same-sex pairs.

Zoos in Japan and Germany have also documented homosexual male penguin couples.The couples have been shown to build nests together and use a stone as a substitute for an egg. Researchers at Rikkyo University in Tokyo found 20 homosexual pairs at 16 major aquariums and zoos in Japan.

Bremerhaven Zoo in Germany attempted to encourage reproduction of endangered Humbolt penguins by importing females from Sweden and separating three male pairs, but this was unsuccessful. The zoo's director said that the relationships were "too strong" between the homosexual pairs. German gay groups protested at this attempt to break up the male-male pairs but the zoo's director was reported as saying "We don't know whether the three male pairs are really homosexual or whether they have just bonded because of a shortage of females... nobody here wants to forcibly separate homosexual couples."

A pair of male Magellanic penguins who had shared a burrow for six years at the San Francisco Zoo and raised a surrogate chick, split when the male of a pair in the next burrow died and the female sought a new mate.

Buddy and Pedro, a pair of male African Penguins, were separated by the Toronto Zoo to mate with female penguins.Buddy has since paired off with a female.

In 1998 two male Griffon vultures named Dashik and Yehuda, at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, engaged in "open and energetic sex" and built a nest. The keepers provided the couple with an artificial egg, which the two parents took turns incubating; and 45 days later, the zoo replaced the egg with a baby vulture. The two male vultures raised the chick together.A few years later, however, Yehuda became interested in a female vulture that was brought into the aviary. Dashik became depressed, and was eventually moved to the zoological research garden at Tel Aviv University where he too set up a nest with a female vulture.

Two homosexual male vultures at the Allwetter Zoo in Muenster built a nest together, although they were picked on and often had their nest materials stolen by other vultures. They were eventually separated to try to promote breeding by placing one of them with female vultures, despite the protests of German homosexual groups.

Both male and female pigeons sometimes exhibit homosexual behavior. As well as sexual behavior same-sex pigeon pairs will build nests, and hens will lay (infertile) eggs and attempt to incubate them.

The Amazon River dolphin or boto has been reported to form up in bands of 3–5 individuals enjoying group sex. The groups usually comprise young males and sometimes one or two females. Sex is often performed in non-reproductive ways, using snout, flippers and genital rubbing, without regards to gender.In captivity, they have been observed to sometimes perform homosexual and heterosexual penetration of the blowhole, a hole homologous with the nostril of other mammals, making this the only known example of nasal sex in the animal kingdom. The males will sometimes also perform sex with tucuxi males, a small porpoise.


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## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning. >>>>BROKEN BRAIN, deal with it


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## Midna (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning.


Sexual interaction among animals of the same sex is common in many species. Specimens in some species, sheep being particularly wall documented, actually prefer the same sex. Whoops, looks like God created homosexuality. What now


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## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning. >>>>BROKEN BRAIN, deal with it


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning.



seriously...you can't bash homosexually here or ANYWHERE...you will get beat with a shovel of hate until you can't stand it anymore (if you haven't got enough hatin' already)

talking like this is asking for trouble... either you're for it...or neutral (don't care)

if you hate homosexuality...you will offend and piss off many people, my friend

so don't do it...if you have more "hate" to add to this already "hate" topic...then it's best to save it for your soapbox, or whoever you preach to...

not the internet. especially not the internet.


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## SickPuppy (May 3, 2012)

Midna said:


> SickPuppy said:
> 
> 
> > By default of nature, a male is meant to be with a female. That's just the way it's meant to be. How many times have you seen two male blue jays getting it on? The way I see it, being gay is a sickness, some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain or something. Just like when grown men or women are attracted to minors, I suppose that's ok too because that's the way they were born. No it's not ok. When are gay people going to realize that their brain is broken and quit their efing whinning.
> ...



What about the part where I mention adults attracted to minors? That's ok right? Because that's the way they were born. Wait, GOD created that too, so I guess it's alright.

Perhaps all mammals can get a broken brain, even sheep>


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## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > SickPuppy said:
> ...


Do really want to continue such a weak agreement?

Other worlds, if you are going to wrongly compare being a pedophile to homosexually, heterosexually is fair game.



SickPuppy said:


> Perhaps all mammals can get a broken brain, even sheep>


Homosexuality = broken brain. Proof?


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## SickPuppy (May 3, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> SickPuppy said:
> 
> 
> > Midna said:
> ...



are you serious, without hetro there would not be homo, homo cannot survive on their own. homo is not the way it was meant to be.Like I said, homo is a freak of nature.


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## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> What about the part where I mention adults attracted to minors? That's ok right? Because that's the way they were born. Wait, GOD created that too, so I guess it's alright.
> 
> Perhaps all mammals can get a broken brain, even sheep>


This same argument can be apply for heterosexuals as well. Your argument is weak and flimsy at best



SickPuppy said:


> are you serious, without hetro there would not be homo, homo cannot survive on their own. homo is not the way it was meant to be.


What about straight couples who can't have kids or are too old to have kids? Are their "brains broke" too?


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## Fudge (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> SickPuppy said:
> 
> 
> > What about the part where I mention adults attracted to minors? That's ok right? Because that's the way they were born. Wait, GOD created that too, so I guess it's alright.
> ...


Agreed. It's like saying having an object fetish is the same sin as being homosexual, whether you're straight, bi, or gay


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## Hells Malice (May 3, 2012)

Oh hey a troll lets all feed it.
Stop responding to the retard (I don't need to name him) he's just trying to get a reaction.

If that's truly his opinion there's still no point arguing since someone that fucking stupid isn't going to be persuaded otherwise, you'll just end up shitting on this thread until it gets closed.


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## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> are you serious, without hetro there would not be homo, homo cannot survive on their own. homo is not the way it was meant to be.Like I said, homo is a freak of nature.


Because everyone has to be hetro for a species to survive?  Hetro can't survive continuous overpopulation either.


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## Zero Aurion (May 3, 2012)

Homosexuality = broken brains?

Well... im bi... so...

hurr, durrr, me so be reatardededededededed! 2+2 is pizza! I likey da turtles!
...F*cking idiot...


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 3, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Oh hey a troll lets all feed it.
> Stop responding to the retard (I don't need to name him) he's just trying to get a reaction.
> 
> If that's truly his opinion there's still no point arguing since someone that fucking stupid isn't going to be persuaded otherwise, you'll just end up shitting on this thread until it gets closed.





SickPuppy said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > SickPuppy said:
> ...




STOP. just. stop. while you have digit--wait. you don't

please stop. you will not win this.


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## Lily (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > The Catboy said:
> ...



Saying "it's not a choice" as if that's a cold, hard, stone fact that isn't up for debate is not going to make anyone interested in hearing your side of the issue. There are many different beliefs, opinions, science and pseudo-science floating around. Rather than say "it's not a choice", or flippantly ask when someone decided to be straight, why not ask why they feel sexuality is a choice?

Perhaps they did choose to be straight. 

Nobody is ever going to get anywhere presenting their opinions and beliefs as fact.

Surely a discussion would be more interesting...


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## SickPuppy (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> SickPuppy said:
> 
> 
> > What about the part where I mention adults attracted to minors? That's ok right? Because that's the way they were born. Wait, GOD created that too, so I guess it's alright.
> ...



what are you talking about, conseption is only granted by GOD, we know there's none of that with gays. What's that got to do about one man wanting another man? Are you saying that a woman with  broken reproductive organs may as well be gay?


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## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Oh hey a troll lets all feed it.
> Stop responding to the retard (I don't need to name him) he's just trying to get a reaction.
> 
> If that's truly his opinion there's still no point arguing since someone that fucking stupid isn't going to be persuaded otherwise, you'll just end up shitting on this thread until it gets closed.


Going to agree.
On-topic, it appears the guy said he was joking, you know this reminds me of the Clint McCance case. Pretty much where he makes a stupid ignorant statement, then "apologizes" when he is called out about it.




Lily said:


> Saying "it's not a choice" as if that's a cold, hard, stone fact that isn't up for debate is not going to make anyone interested in hearing your side of the issue. There are many different beliefs, opinions, science and pseudo-science floating around. Rather than say "it's not a choice", or flippantly ask when someone decided to be straight, why not ask why they feel sexuality is a choice?
> 
> Perhaps they did choose to be straight.
> 
> ...


Honestly I never really thought about it that way.  I am going to put more thought into that now.


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## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> what are you talking about, conseption is only granted by GOD. What's that got to do about one man wanting another man?


How about people who didn't want a kid or even a partner?


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## MelodieOctavia (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > SickPuppy said:
> ...



Because MY sexuality has nothing to do with YOUR God. Neither does conception., but that's neither here nor there.


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## gamefan5 (May 3, 2012)

People just stop TALKING to him. It's flame bait.


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## mthrnite (May 3, 2012)

Pedophilia, acting on it anyway, involves psychological damage to another person, homosexuality does not. Apples and oranges.
Two people fall in love, are intimate, nobody gets hurt, they lead fulfilling lives as a couple.. how is that a bad thing? How is that broken?
The people involved aren't harmed, society isn't harmed, nature could frankly give a shit if a steady stream of human babies is pumped out or not, but even if it did "care", there's plenty of heterosexuals around to keep things moving.
It's in nature, it's natural, it doesn't harm the individuals or society, so it should be accepted as perfectly normal.

I know too many people that are gay or bi that lead perfectly healthy and fulfilling lives.. they aren't broken, not in the least.


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## SickPuppy (May 3, 2012)

clam down, I don't even believe in GOD. I'm not a troll, but the is thread is a troll thread. What did the op expect? This thread should have been locked from the very start.


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## Zero Aurion (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> clam down, I don't even believe in GOD. I'm not a troll, but the is thread is a troll thread. What did the op expect? This thread should have been locked from the very start.



the thread was a troll thread? I may be wrong.. but.. weren't we having as close to a decent, non-trollish debate before this little asshole came around?


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 3, 2012)

thread locking down in T-Minus 20 posts...........= /


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## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> clam down, I don't even believe in GOD. I'm not a troll, but the is thread is a troll thread. What did the op expect? This thread should have been locked from the very start.


Actually, I think the thing you did was trolling. Putting out a pov of God into it while not believing or being serious about it and I think you only one that trolled the thread here.
Expect a nice discussion for once?




stanleyopar2000 said:


> thread locking down in T-Minus 20 posts...........= /


I think he/she would get kick out first before that happens...


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## Hells Malice (May 3, 2012)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> thread locking down in T-Minus 20 posts...........= /



Pretty optimistic considering people are _still_ responding to a very plump a fat little troll now.


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## mthrnite (May 3, 2012)

Troll revealed. Thread is fine. Carry on.

Any further disingenuous comments from troll will be deleted, so troll should be ignored/reported only.


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## Zero Aurion (May 3, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > thread locking down in T-Minus 20 posts...........= /
> ...



I really don't even know why my dumbass self is still feedin him :/


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## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

On-Topic now; It seems like Pastor Sean Harris was just saying something stupid to get attention towards him.


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## notmeanymore (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> I just want to point out there is more in the Bible people
> http://www.11points....t_you_do_anyway
> 
> Not to mention most parts about homosexuality were not about homosexuality and were edited later on to be about it.
> The Bible at best is a very weak argument about homosexuality and really just stop being used so often.



As I mentioned, Christians aren't bound by the Old Testament. Everything there except divorce (which I can assure you, I don't approve of) is in the Old Testament.


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## Gahars (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> On-Topic now; It seems like Pastor Sean Harris was just saying something stupid to get attention towards him.



So he made controversial comments for the attention and we've had a very special someone do the same thing in this thread. If you want a lesson on trolling,  ladies and gentlemen, here it is.

@TehSkull

Why is divorce the exception, and not the rule?

Also, aren't Christians still bound by the Ten Commandments? Or is it that seen as technically renewed by Jesus (I forget the exact speech, though it was in at least the Book of Matthew)?


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## JustChillin1414 (May 3, 2012)

I grew up in a Christian household, I've been through the bible, though I don't believe in any of that stuff anymore... What I don't fucking understand is that the bible explicitly says do unto others what you would have them do to you, treat others how you would want to be treated. Supposedly this man is a man of God, a man that should know what that book says, now why the hell are you breaking "the golden rule." Stupidity, pure stupidity.


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 3, 2012)

seems to me this topic has devolved from a topic on social homosexual issues, to a religious arguement whether the bible is true or god exists...please lets get back on topic?


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## finkmac (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> On-Topic now; It seems like Pastor Sean Harris was just saying something stupid to get attention towards him.



That's what they all do.


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## triassic911 (May 3, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> On-Topic now; It seems like Pastor Sean Harris was just saying something stupid to get attention towards him.


I'd say mission accomplished.


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## SickPuppy (May 3, 2012)

I would like my last post reinstated, it broke no rules, and I wasn't flaming anybody.


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## KingVamp (May 3, 2012)

Gahars said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > On-Topic now; It seems like Pastor Sean Harris was just saying something stupid to get attention towards him.
> ...


It could also be that they realize that they may be wrong and wanted to soften the negative backlash... 

Anyway, I think was meant to be grown up as a conservative Christian(only part of my whole family is),but that just didn't happen. I went to multiple churches inconsistently then stop altogether and the stuff I learn over years just help me see things in a different way. Maybe it time to admit I'm actually theist as some like to point some Christians actually are. 

As a said before, it just doesn't seem right for punching a kid for that.


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## Thesolcity (May 3, 2012)

"The war on gay kids" sounds a bit sensationalist, perhaps "Dumb pastor pops off at the mouth" is more appropriate? 

That being said, the pastor seems to not know the other languages in which the bible was translated from. The passage he uses is most likely the famous (widely used) one in Corinthians mentioning "effeminates" going to hell. The problem with that, though is that the word that shows up in that translation is a badly translated word from a Greek known as μαλακοί, or soft or fine. That word was meant to be used to describe the soft, fine clothing only the very rich of the time period wore. See? History lesson for all.


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## triassic911 (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> I would like my last post reinstated, it broke no rules, and I wasn't flaming anybody.


You made yourself clear you were the troll with your first post straight-up bashing. We know you don't like homosexuality, but you shouldn't bash it. I used to be like you. But then you start to wonder why people turn gay. That's their life. They have nothing against you, so why should you have something against them? 

As for religion, you are just preaching what others have preached onto you. I am christian but that is because my parents raised me that way. Doesn't mean I follow all of it. Relax bro.


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## The Catboy (May 3, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> "The war on gay kids" sounds a bit sensationalist, perhaps "Dumb pastor pops off at the mouth" is more appropriate?
> 
> That being said, the pastor seems to not know the other languages in which the bible was translated from. The passage he uses is most likely the famous (widely used) one in Corinthians mentioning "effeminates" going to hell. The problem with that, though is that the word that shows up in that translation is a badly translated word from a Greek known as μαλακοί, or soft or fine. That word was meant to be used to describe the soft, fine clothing only the very rich of the time period wore. See? History lesson for all.


I second this motion


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## Haloman800 (May 3, 2012)

Wow, I can't believe how liberal you guys are. Blowing something so silly out of proportion. HE WAS SPEAKING METAPHORICALLY.. Guys punch each other, he was telling them to snap them out of their [censored]ry, not to encourage it, to "Man Up". He even came back and said it was just an expression.

Our countries economy is on the verge of another meltdown and this is the "breaking news" we're discussing? Wooooooooooow


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## MelodieOctavia (May 3, 2012)

Haloman800 said:


> Wow, I can't believe how liberal you guys are. Blowing something so silly out of proportion. HE WAS SPEAKING METAPHORICALLY.. Guys punch each other, he was telling them to snap them out of their [censored]ry, not to encourage it, to "Man Up".* He even came back and said it was just an expression.*
> 
> *Our countries economy is on the verge of another meltdown and this is the "breaking news" we're discussing? Wooooooooooow*



Public outcry is usually followed by massive backpedaling. And nice usage of a (if now a few) logical fallacy. You can only report on the economy so many times , so often before messages start to repeat. Just because there are OTHER things going on in the world, it doesn't mean things like this aren't worthy to be reported on.


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## Haloman800 (May 3, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Haloman800 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I can't believe how liberal you guys are. Blowing something so silly out of proportion. HE WAS SPEAKING METAPHORICALLY.. Guys punch each other, he was telling them to snap them out of their [censored]ry, not to encourage it, to "Man Up".* He even came back and said it was just an expression.*
> ...



The "backpedaling" was *after* the "pubic outcry". That wasn't even backpedaling, like I already stated, he said it was just an expression. People are going out of their ways to misunderstand him and try to twist around his words. He was saying to crush out the gayness and not encourage it, before it manifests, like you would get treated to stop a disease before it gets worse; as an analogy.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 3, 2012)

Haloman800 said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > Haloman800 said:
> ...



Yeah, I worded that wrong, but the message still remains the same.

So what you're saying is mental and emotional abuse for the sake of "crushing the gay out" is okay? If anything that would CAUSE mental instability where there was none.


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## Haloman800 (May 3, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Haloman800 said:
> 
> 
> > TwinRetro said:
> ...


Nice edit of your original post bro, and I love how you try to twist around words I say like you did with the pastor.

Your post is so unintelligent, there's no way I can respond to it. Proverbs 26:4 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself."

If you're too simple minded to understand an analogy or a metaphor, then no one could possibly argue with you.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 3, 2012)

Haloman800 said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > Haloman800 said:
> ...



You have nothing in form of rebuttal, so you insult my intelligence. I'm not sure, is your post supposed to be ironic? Because the irony is not lost on me. I won't be responding to any more of your replies, so please, don't bother replying to this one.


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## Clydefrosch (May 3, 2012)

the bible forbids women to wear pants.

why dont we talk about that?


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## mthrnite (May 3, 2012)

..while we're on Proverbs..

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14

If he's speaking metaphorically, and I'll assume he was, I will also assume (growing up religious in North Carolina) that people who believe that being gay is a sin, also have a thing for literal interpretations.
It's a very good thing he did backpedal, but he should have clarified as soon as he said it, not after it trended on twitter or whatever.

Both what he said, and what he meant, were detestable in my opinion, but at least he clarified.


----------



## Thesolcity (May 3, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> ..while we're on Proverbs..
> 
> *Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14*
> 
> ...



When did we get on the subject of random bible verses? People twist things (like religion) to fit their own interpretations. Nothing new here, carry on...


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## mthrnite (May 3, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> mthrnite said:
> 
> 
> > ..while we're on Proverbs..
> ...



This topic is about a preacher who suggested severe punishment for effeminate acting children. Read the first post and listen to the preacher in question, and I think you'll then see why the above verse is very relevant and not random at all.


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## Thesolcity (May 3, 2012)

mthrnite said:


> Thesolcity said:
> 
> 
> > mthrnite said:
> ...



Got me there. Sorry.


----------



## Pleng (May 3, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> I think I'll raise my sons on Professor Layton games so they will grow up to be perfect English gentlemen. Then I'll have no need to worry about them ever being gay.



hahahaaaa man do _you_ need some history lessons!

wait...



> I'm just going to point them to Jesus




...oh never mind, then


----------



## Deleted-188346 (May 3, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> what are you talking about, conseption is only granted by GOD


And I was so sure that all those anatomists and physiologists were onto something...well, that solves that. I'll go tell them to get other jobs and scrap all existing research and knowledge about the human reproductive system and cycle.

Also, I'll have to contact all the dictionary publishers and make them correct the word "conception". They appeared to have made an error.



Bible said:


> Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14


Wow. That would be a hell of a passage to quote to recovering victims of parental abuse.


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## exosquad (May 3, 2012)

this man, everyone who agrees with him, everybody that applauded, wrong. all wrong. incorrect. socially unacceptable. WRONG. no devils advocate, no seeing it from his side, no metaphor BS. NO. He's a man that sad those words and meant them that way and hes wrong.

NEVER punch a child. and im not anti spanking, but punching is messed up. punch the word byitself implies violence. this isnt any type of discipline. this is JUST abuse.
And this is the view of people who are religious? close to god? people agree with this man?
homosexuality isnt made from sissys, and tom girls. but NOBODY has the right to beat a sissy or tom girl just because that jackass said its okay. i had thought we as a society had progressed, but this... its just wrong. abusing your children, hating gays(or even just fem guys/butch girls), pro marriage (but not anti divorce).... are somehow all hand in hand.
W T F


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## koimayeul (May 3, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > When the first original couple of human beings are male and female it leave no place to being born homosexual, just saying.
> ...



I don't get your comment about science grade maybe am i being too french? Science = Human interpretation to me so i can't argue so much anyway. Though, there is no debate to have about facts. They just are. From an evolutive perspective there could have been one single entity to divide into all other life forms, there is still only two viable gender left and tied to each other by nature. From my creationist understanding and belief, our first parents are one male and one female, each born with the natural instinct of mating with each other in order to survive, there is no alternate way with no science involved. Every birth beyond them share the same natural instinct within their genes. No homosexual gene possible hence not a forced nature upon one's birth.

Hold on, i'm not saying is it right or wrong, it is just not natural. Sexual union is only possible through sexual organs intercourse, male penis within female vagina. No debate about fact. It is sad and i feel sad for people in love with a person from the same gender for this one reason alone. No. Sexual. Union. Possible. For the sake of a healthy, fulfilling relationship. Rubbing the stuff, bum sex for gays and double dong for lesbians are derogatory form of union. This is my point about it, and i leave it at that. FACTS.

About the religion involved.. It is human to try and twist every single aspect of what we go through (and scriptures in this very case) to feel righteous and "whatever make you sleep at night". A person freedom equals his/her responsibility, nothing less, nothing more. Keep God out of this. Wake up!

Now the best turn this discussion could take even more is from Lily



Lily said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hyro-Sama said:
> ...



This is beyond me to deny it as a choice. Think about it, why are you with your partner over every other person.. ? Why stay with him/her over ALL the others? If not by choice i feel sorry for you and even more for him/her. And if you can find another reason than a genuine need and lust for love, or you are not loyal to him/her anyway, well.. This would be just wrong as a relationship.

Denying the possibility to CHANGE, neglecting the power of human WILL.. That makes me sick. Freedom = Responsibility, let me say it again. Hopefully no more bible bashing, when Muslims and many other countries and religions would not allow homosexual people to breath, you have it easy with us open minded and tolerant Christians. Leave God out of your responsabilities when it comes to personal decisions. Because your decisions may very well be the only thing you really can claim as your own..


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## BlueStar (May 3, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> As I mentioned, Christians aren't bound by the Old Testament.




Cool, you don't have to follow the Ten Commandments then.


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## Deleted-188346 (May 3, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Science = Human pretention to me so i can't argue so much anyway.


That's it, this conversation has become too hilarious for me.
You've topped it koimayeul. Science being "human pretention" (being posted on a *forum*, on a *computer*, which is a *product of* *science*) is just too hilariously stupid to be serious.
You're a hell of a comedian, I gotta say.


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## Depravo (May 3, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Hold on, i'm not saying is it right or wrong, it is just not natural.


Yet you typed this message on a computer. Presumably you also live in some kind of house and eat your food cooked. You wear clothes, talk to people hundreds of miles away on a handheld device and regularly travel in some kind of motorised vehicle. None of these things are natural.

If there are any sound arguments against homosexuality, it being 'not natural' is not one of them.


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## koimayeul (May 3, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Science = Human pretention to me so i can't argue so much anyway.
> ...


Way to belittle my take on it quoting 2 words? 

Edit: Or maybe something was lost in translation as im french.. ? By human pretention i mean human interpretation.


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## koimayeul (May 3, 2012)

Depravo said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Hold on, i'm not saying is it right or wrong, it is just not natural.
> ...


So we learned and learn science over time and efforts, i don't see the tie with homosexuality? Also i'm not arguing against homosexuality as i'm totally okay with it. I am not favorable to it though i am not neutral. The way i feel is compassionate for homosexual people for the reasons i explained in my long post above. Not judging or condemning people for their choices as long as they stand for it. About it being not natural, no sexual union possible with the other sexual organ missing that is not me making it so, sorry!


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## Deleted-188346 (May 3, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Hold on, i'm not saying is it right or wrong, it is just not natural.


How isn't homosexuality natural? It's exactly the same as a man and a woman, but no woman, or no man. The emotions are the same. The physical act is only superficially different from the heterosexual act of sex. And the gender difference is, again, rather superficial.

So how isn't it natural?



koimayeul said:


> Sexual union is only possible through sexual organs intercourse, male penis within female vagina. No debate about fact.


Indeed, naturally creating children (sexual union) is only naturally achievable through heterosexual intercourse.
So what?
If you have a problem with that inability, then by that logic, a man should not mate with an infertile woman or vice versa.



koimayeul said:


> It is sad and i feel sad for people in love with a person from the same gender for this one reason alone. No. Sexual. Union. Possible. For the sake of a healthy, fulfilling relationship. Rubbing the stuff, bum sex for gays and double dong for lesbians are derogatory form of union. This is my point about it, and i leave it at that. FACTS.


What is your definition of "sexual union" anyway? The ability to naturally produce children does not always equal a "healthy, fulfilling relationship".
How is anal sex, or use of dildos (they are not explicitly "double dongs", by the way) a derogatory form of union?
Why are you claiming your homophobic opinion as facts?



koimayeul said:


> So we learned and learn science over time and efforts, i don't see the tie with homosexuality? Also i'm not arguing against homosexuality as i'm totally okay with it. I am not favorable to it though i am not neutral. The way i feel is compassionate for homosexual people for the reasons i explained in my long post above. Not judging or condemning people for their choices as long as they stand for it.
> 
> Edit: Or maybe something was lost in translation as im french ? By human pretention i mean human interpretation.


He's saying that technology (and any product of science) is just as unnatural as homosexuality. Yet, you use technology willingly, which makes your argument somewhat hypocritical.


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## koimayeul (May 3, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> snip


Well i have my share of flaws but i am no hypocrite. Sexual union as sexual intercourse, insertion of a male's penis into a female's vagina as nature is built and intended, leaving procreation aside. A woman's vagina nerves are meant to meet with a man's penis nerves to "have sex", as far the natural order of things go. Hands, oral sex, anal sex are no sexual organs. Sexual interaction is irrelevent in this logic as it is "foreplay" and deviant from natural purpose of things, to the main act of uniting both sex together, only possible through each other of distinct opposite/complementary gender. Emotions and everything involved in homosexual relationship have the same value to me as every other relationship. I am no "homophobic" enemy to get down so chill out.. Seesh


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## BasedKiliK (May 3, 2012)

Beating a child for any reason that's just as ridiculous as this is *unnacceptable PERIOD.* Gay or not.


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## FAST6191 (May 3, 2012)

koimayeul - science is a process/method* not a body of knowledge, a common and fairly forgiveable mistake but a mistake none the less. Certainly a lot of knowledge about what has gone before/the current state of things is beyond useful to operate science to generate new knowledge in the modern world though.

*make an observation, form a hypothesis, fairly test said hypothesis repeatedly and if it turns out to hold you have yourself a theory and if that theory gets enough supporting evidence it becomes a scientific law. This being said said law and indeed said theory could be utterly negated by any one new theory/experiment although when it gets to be called a law most of the time it will not be or will it will be considered a simplistic model in need of improvement when it comes to different scales*.

*laws of motion- utterly useless when you get very fast or very small but they still are a useful approximation for a large chunk of existence.

Equally if I may use the personification of nature she is a cruel mistress and anything that does not aid the continuation (note not necessarily reproduction) of the species tends to get wiped out very fast yet various non reproductive types of sexuality* have been around for thousands of years and exists elsewhere in nature. Whether this plays into recessive and combination genetics and indeed society as a whole (tools and opposable thumbs were good but speech and society which is not entirely predicated upon breeding (see models that run along the lines of survival is not necessarily those that reproduce but those that are more likely to have grandchildren) was equally useful in the rise of humanity as arguably the dominant life form on the planet) I guess we can debate later.

*sex itself is in many ways a waste of what at least was until incredibly recently (in terms of existence of life on earth) very valuable energy which every viable animal again until recently (see brown fat in humans) has done everything it can to conserve and as such it has been posited that the drive for it came about to override the drive to conserve energy.

Re others and "wow this thread did not get locked" I for one am not surprised it has stayed open (we have a fairly good lot around here) and although we have had better threads they have usually started from a better point than the extremely ill considered offhand remarks of an ignorant that society has unfortunately given something of a position of power/respect/authority.

There are other points I probably would like to address in the thread but others have done a fair line in it and I probably need to be doing something to earn a crust.


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## notmeanymore (May 3, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > As I mentioned, Christians aren't bound by the Old Testament.
> ...



Except for the ones repeated in the New Testament. Which is all but the fourth.



demonicstrife said:


> Beating a child for any reason that's just as ridiculous as this is *unnacceptable PERIOD.* Gay or not.



Completely serious question: When _is_ an acceptable time to beat a child?


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## Sicklyboy (May 3, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> demonicstrife said:
> 
> 
> > Beating a child for any reason that's just as ridiculous as this is *unnacceptable PERIOD.* Gay or not.
> ...



It is NEVER acceptable to beat a child.  Giving a child a spanking as discipline for bad behaviour, however, is usually justified in my eyes.  There is a much stronger connotation of violence and hatred in "beat" than there is "spank".  My dad has spanked me many times as a child because I often stepped out of line and disrespected my parents.  Did I enjoy the spankings?  No, of course not.  However, I absolutely feel that I deserved them.  But my dad has never beaten me.


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## notmeanymore (May 4, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> TehSkull said:
> 
> 
> > demonicstrife said:
> ...


I agree completely, I just wanted to hear demonic's answer.


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## Hells Malice (May 4, 2012)

Depravo said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Hold on, i'm not saying is it right or wrong, it is just not natural.
> ...



Well not to support the gay bashers, but he DID state it's not about right or wrong, just it not being natural. I'm too lazy to read his other posts but based solely on the quote of his you have there, he wasn't exactly stating something unnatural (like computers and other such technology) are necessarily bad.

Regardless the argument is asinine since no mad scientist cooked up The Gay in a lab and unleashed it upon the world. Gayness is all natural. Might as well start throwing rocks at people with heterochromia for being "unnatural" (read: different).


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## BasedKiliK (May 4, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> plasma dragon007 said:
> 
> 
> > TehSkull said:
> ...


My answer? Pretty much the same as his. I didn't mean to convey "beating" as a form of discipline if it came across that way.


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## notmeanymore (May 4, 2012)

demonicstrife said:


> My answer? Pretty much the same as his. I didn't mean to convey "beating" as a form of discipline if it came across that way.


Right but you said


demonicstrife said:


> Beating a child _for any reason that's just as ridiculous as this_ is *unnacceptable PERIOD.* Gay or not.


The italicized phrase indicates there being some non-ridiculous reason for beating a child. Or so it came across.


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## smile72 (May 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > North Carolina is in the South, thus bible belt, this isn't shocking.
> ...


Not the point I was making the bible belt is full of evangelicals, they tend to be much more conservative.... I wasn't saying that in general, if you have heard pastors from the bible belt,this isn't that shocking. But again... you haven't.


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## smile72 (May 4, 2012)

@koimayuel
Homosexuality is natural, because it happens in nature.


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## Foxi4 (May 4, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > smile72 said:
> ...


But then again, you wouldn't know since _you don't know me in person so you're just assuming things._
But then again, _you tend to assume things  about people based on their geographical positions often as it is._

An idiot pastor can be located just about anywhere around the globe - punching children in the face for whatever reason is not a Christian idea, it's not an Evangelical idea, it's a child abuse idea, it has nothing to do with the Bible Belt, it has everything to do with being a backwards twat, and that pastor certainly is one.

If you're speaking of the "density of backwards twats" then I suppose I could agree, but try not to generalize like this.


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## smile72 (May 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


I'm not generalizing, it's called the bible belt for a reason, not because they punch kids, though corporal punishment in school is legal in all of those states (except Illinois, Virginia, and West Virginia).... The people tend to be a lot more religious. This might help you understand the Bible Belt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_belt And once again hitting a child wasn't my point, it's that pastors saying dumb shit isn't abnormal in the bible belt.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 4, 2012)

Shouldn't children in christian households be punished for being homosexual? Homosexually is considered a sin in Christianity. Same with Judaism and Islam. People act (parent) according their values. I'm not suggesting that Christians should punch their children if their gay and they shouldn't be enabling the homosexual child either.


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## Foxi4 (May 4, 2012)

smile72 said:


> I'm not generalizing, it's called the bible belt for a reason, not because they punch kids, though corporal punishment in school is legal in all of those states (except Illinois, Virginia, and West Virginia).... The people tend to be a lot more religious. This might help you understand the Bible Belt http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Bible_belt And once again hitting a child wasn't my point, it's that pastors saying dumb shit isn't abnormal in the bible belt.


Ah, in that case, I see your point.

Still, I wanted to stress that punching children in the face is not recommended by "Christians", it's recommended by some hillbilly pastor. Christians don't deserve to get an even more of a bad name just because some jackass in the Town of Nowhere is a bit vocal.


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## smile72 (May 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not generalizing, it's called the bible belt for a reason, not because they punch kids, though corporal punishment in school is legal in all of those states (except Illinois, Virginia, and West Virginia).... The people tend to be a lot more religious. This might help you understand the Bible Belt http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Bible_belt And once again hitting a child wasn't my point, it's that pastors saying dumb shit isn't abnormal in the bible belt.
> ...


Fayetteville isn't the middle of nowhere, it has over 200,000 people, nor is it a town, it is a city. Regardless though I understand your point.


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## Zero Aurion (May 4, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > smile72 said:
> ...



Corporal Punishment isnt allowed in schools in Texas... I would've most likely been on the recieving end if it was lol


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## Foxi4 (May 4, 2012)

Zero Aurion said:


> Corporal Punishment isnt allowed in schools in Texas... I would've most likely been on the recieving end if it was lol









You will not deny Chuck his right to throw stuff back at pupils.


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## Zero Aurion (May 4, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Shouldn't children in christian households be punished for being homosexual? Homosexually is considered a sin in Christianity. Same with Judaism and Islam. People act (parent) according their values. I'm not suggesting that Christians should punch their children if their gay and they shouldn't be enabling the homosexual child either.



This is the problem with religion.. it preaches about being kind, "love thy neighbor"... but, then it decides to contradict itself and reveal the TRUE meaning... "Love thy neighbor unless thy neighbor is different". What the hell is so wrong with equality? Why can't everyone just be treated the same... oh, that reminds me... that's also a big thing in religion "Treat others how you want to be treated" Hmm.. so that means if some crazy ass pastor throws holy water on a kid (which, btw, has happened here in Texas), we should return the favor.. Oh, but that's wrong... too many people would rather be a hypocrite than follow their own damned religion, they preach about their god, and they don't even realize that even if their god DOES exist, there's no way in hell they'll ever see their god, not because he's invisible, but rather because they are disobeying his words.


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## Foxi4 (May 4, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Shouldn't children in christian households be punished for being homosexual? Homosexually is considered a sin in Christianity. Same with Judaism and Islam. People act (parent) according their values. I'm not suggesting that Christians should punch their children if their gay and they shouldn't be enabling the homosexual child either.


Technically the parent/s is/are only obligated to raise the child in the values of Christianity. The child should be aware of the values it's supposed to follow and this enforcement is to take place untill the child matures, then it can do whatever it wants. It's supposed to be raised in the Christian religion aswell, but it doesn't exactly specify that it cannot make a concious choice later-on in its life about it.

It's pretty straight-forward - you get all the information during just about any baptism ceremony, if you ever attended one.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 4, 2012)

Zero Aurion said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Shouldn't children in christian households be punished for being homosexual? Homosexually is considered a sin in Christianity. Same with Judaism and Islam. People act (parent) according their values. I'm not suggesting that Christians should punch their children if their gay and they shouldn't be enabling the homosexual child either.
> ...



Ummmm...  K

Religious families usually follow their core values. Homosexually is considered a sin in some (not all) religions. A religious household which deems homosexuality evil will parent according that belief.  Homosexual children won't have any problems as long as they're not raised in religious households.


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## Phoenix Goddess (May 4, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Ummmm...  K
> 
> Religious families usually follow their core values. Homosexually is considered a sin in some (not all) religions. A religious household which deems homosexuality evil will parent according that belief.  Homosexual children won't have any problems as long as they're not raised in religious households.



That's not always true. Or at least not in my parents' household. They disagree with it, but they don't hassle you about it or treat you any different.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 5, 2012)

Phoenix Goddess said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Ummmm...  K
> ...



That's not the norm unfortunately.


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## smile72 (May 5, 2012)

Zero Aurion said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Nope it's legal.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Nope it's legal.


It's called a _dead law_, many things are legal/illegal but never used/enforced againts simply because there is/isn't a social stigma related to them anymore. Think back to the idiotic law that forbade anal sex in Washington, no matter what kind of sexual partners were to perform it. Or the law againts licking lollipops.

They were made at some point but are no longer used, it's just that the State doesn't feel like changing them because it's just a waste of time and paper to officially remove them.

*EDIT*: Silly irregular verbs are silly, fix'd.


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## smile72 (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > Nope it's legal.
> ...





> During the 2006-07 school year, the most recent period with statewide statistics available, more than 49,000 Texas students were paddled, putting Texas at the top of the list, according to the U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights. But the punishment continues to be a controversial and confusing subject, partly because school districts make their own policies and the line between discipline and abuse can be blurred.


http://www.star-tele...still-take.html
Doesn't seem dead to me.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

smile72 said:


> > During the 2006-07 school year, the most recent period with statewide statistics available, more than 49,000 Texas students were paddled, putting Texas at the top of the list, according to the U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights. But the punishment continues to be a controversial and confusing subject, partly because school districts make their own policies and the line between discipline and abuse can be blurred.
> 
> 
> http://www.star-tele...still-take.html
> Doesn't seem dead to me.





> "I think most people are surprised that it still goes on, especially in other parts of the country" (...) "State Rep. Alma Allen, D-Houston, agrees. In January, she introduced House Bill 916, which seeks to ban corporal punishment in all Texas school districts -- her fourth effort to pass an anti-paddling law."



...and 40 schools already officially banned it. According to the article you sent, paddling mostly takes place in rural areas, not in the major schools. They're getting there, so chill.

Moreover, the so-called "paddling" is still subject to anti-abuse laws. They're not exactly beating the crap out of them.


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## smile72 (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > > During the 2006-07 school year, the most recent period with statewide statistics available, more than 49,000 Texas students were paddled, putting Texas at the top of the list, according to the U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights. But the punishment continues to be a controversial and confusing subject, partly because school districts make their own policies and the line between discipline and abuse can be blurred.
> ...


Yet, it is still legal in Texas...... and it does happen so it's not a dead law.


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## Gahars (May 5, 2012)

Trying to pass anti-paddling laws?



Spoiler












Sorry to get off topic... but an opportunity like that comes only once in a lifetime.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Yet, it is still legal in Texas...... and it does happen so it's not a dead law.


Putting rural areas in the same basket with major settlements is a crime againts reason - those people live in a "different world" and have a "different mindset", for them it's not something out of the ordinary. They'll eventually change, but civilizational change takes time, not just legislature.

Give it a generation or two and it won't be legal anymore. I would say "mark my words" but neither of us will be alive at that point.


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## smile72 (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > Yet, it is still legal in Texas...... and it does happen so it's not a dead law.
> ...


The only point I was making was that Texas still allowed corporal punishment. Rural areas in Illinois can't administer corporal punishment, thus making it completely illegal. Unlike Texas.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

smile72 said:


> The only point I was making was that Texas still allowed corporal punishment. Rural areas in Illinois can't administer corporal punishment, thus making it completely illegal. Unlike Texas.


[yt]V1j7lyRnxVE[/yt]


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