# Couy Griffin is disqualified for holding office after actions relating to january 6th



## Nothereed (Sep 21, 2022)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...co-founder-banned-public-office-jan-rcna46465



I'm actually surprised the justice system did anything at all. I was expecting a nothing burger, and I actually got something.

But specifically, he was disqualified for violating the 14th amendment. If it seems that I don't have much to say, it's primarily because I don't have much to add on.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 21, 2022)

Alright so when is Hunter's laptop and crack addiction going to be investigated? I've seen people doing hard jail time for mere grams of weed, but the elites can do crack and progressives will defend them to death.

Fuck off with your political prosecution, you're turning the greatest country on earth into a banana republic. Either you investigate them all, or you don't investigate neither of them.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 21, 2022)

So he was convicted of a misdemeanor and somehow that equates to participating in an insurrection where not a single person has been convicted of insurrection, sedition or treason. I get that you are gloating, but I'm not exactly sure why.

I never thought we'd get to the point where it is illegal to criticize the government. Congrats, leftists, you've brought fascism to our shores.


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## Lumstar (Sep 21, 2022)

A redcap, pfft.


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## Xzi (Sep 21, 2022)

It doesn't happen near enough, but I'll never get tired of how mad it makes republicans when somebody from their party faces the consequences of their own actions.


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## Hanafuda (Sep 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It doesn't happen near enough, but I'll never get tired of how mad it makes republicans when somebody from their party faces the consequences of their own actions.



They get mad not because someone has been made to "face the consequences" but because there is no parity. I think the Hunter Biden example given above is a poor one, but Code Pink repeatedly breaking into the Senate and House chambers to disrupt proceedings when GWB was President is a good example. The riots in DC during Trump's inauguration and outside the White House in May 2020 are good examples. Leftist protesters and rioters get a pass, police are ordered to accommodate their chaos, theft, and destruction, mayors endorse providing them "space to destroy." But fools who got swept up into a crowd _being waved into the US Capitol by Capitol Police_ on Jan 6, who just walked around and took selfies (some were belligerent and disruptive, but many did nothing but "trespass"), are being sentenced to 5 years in prison or more after a year and a half of pretrial detention without bail. It's not that their crimes are being punished that is objectionable. It's that the punishments are disproportionate, and that the crimes of others aressimply ignored or even praised.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Congrats, leftists, you've brought fascism to our shores.


Only they could have done it. Mussolini was one of their most important students after all.


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## yuyuyup (Sep 21, 2022)

6/1 capitol officers suicide count climbs to 4 total

article from a year ago

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/of...ol-attack-is-third-die-by-suicide-2021-08-02/

Aug 2 (Reuters) - The District of Columbia's police department on Monday said two more police officers who responded to the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol have died by suicide, bringing to four the number of known suicides by officers who guarded the building that day.

In other news, Hunter Biden smoked crack and said the N word


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## Hanafuda (Sep 21, 2022)

yuyuyup said:


> 6/1 capitol officers suicide count climbs to 4 total
> 
> article from a year ago
> 
> ...



No more unusual than Russian oligarchs sleepwalking out of skyscraper windows.


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## omgcat (Sep 21, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Alright so when is Hunter's laptop and crack addiction going to be investigated? I've seen people doing hard jail time for mere grams of weed, but the elites can do crack and progressives will defend them to death.
> 
> Fuck off with your political prosecution, you're turning the greatest country on earth into a banana republic. Either you investigate them all, or you don't investigate neither of them.


cool, cause hunter biden is totally going to hold any sort of office in the united states.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 21, 2022)

omgcat said:


> cool, cause hunter biden is totally going to hold any sort of office in the united states.


That dog didn't hunt when the left was accusing Don Jr of everything under the sun, plus Hunter can be blackmailed forcing daddy to protect him. Not to mention 10% went to the Big Guy, so ole Joe profited while he was in office dealing with the CCP.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 21, 2022)

omgcat said:


> cool, cause hunter biden is totally going to hold any sort of office in the united states.


funny how this same logic doesn't apply to Trump's son.
Go with your hypocrisy somewhere else.


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Code Pink repeatedly breaking into the Senate and House chambers to disrupt proceedings when GWB was President is a good example. The riots in DC during Trump's inauguration and outside the White House in May 2020 are good examples.



Code Pink never broke into the senate. They showed up to sessions that were open to the public. Sometimes they got too rowdy and 'sometimes' they got arrested, so this is just Republican non-sense. The same is true for the those who rioted when Trump was inaugurated. 217 people were arrested in those riots. Just stop lying already. I know you Trumpers have a complicated relationship with the truth, but fuck...


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 21, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> They get mad not because someone has been made to "face the consequences" but because there is no parity. I think the Hunter Biden example given above is a poor one, but Code Pink repeatedly breaking into the Senate and House chambers to disrupt proceedings when GWB was President is a good example. The riots in DC during Trump's inauguration and outside the White House in May 2020 are good examples. Leftist protesters and rioters get a pass, police are ordered to accommodate their chaos, theft, and destruction, mayors endorse providing them "space to destroy." But fools who got swept up into a crowd _being waved into the US Capitol by Capitol Police_ on Jan 6, who just walked around and took selfies (some were belligerent and disruptive, but many did nothing but "trespass"), are being sentenced to 5 years in prison or more after a year and a half of pretrial detention without bail. It's not that their crimes are being punished that is objectionable. It's that the punishments are disproportionate, and that the crimes of others aressimply ignored or even praised.


100%
I actually don't have an issue with Trump's house being raided, I have an issue with the Clintons, the Obamas and the Bidens not having theirs raided.

It would be ideal if politicians accross the spectrum are scared shitless of having to face justice if they do shady shit, but we don't have that, we have one party taking control of the justice system to attack the other party.

Pure grade A fascism.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Code Pink never broke into the senate. They showed up to sessions that were open to the public. Sometimes they got too rowdy and 'sometimes' they got arrested, so this is just Republican non-sense. The same is true for the those who rioted when Trump was inaugurated. 217 people were arrested in those riots. Just stop lying already. I know you Trumpers have a complicated relationship with the truth, but fuck...


Many of those 217 were arrested and immediately released and the charges were dropped. The few that plead guilty received light sentencing. Also, six police officers were injured but they were local police and not Capitol police so that's ok by the left's standards.


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Many of those 217 were arrested and immediately released and the charges were dropped. The few that plead guilty received light sentencing. Also, six police officers were injured but they were local police and not Capitol police so that's ok by the left's standards.


Yet Republican rioters killed 3 police officers on Jan 6. Ya know, the day they literally tried to end democracy. They also injured 140 officers. Perspective.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Yet Republican rioters killed 3 police officers on Jan 6. Ya know, the day they literally tried to end democracy. They also injured 140 officers. Perspective.


Name the police officers killed on Jan 6 and how they died.

And thanks for proving my point by changing the subject.


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## Hanafuda (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Yet Republican rioters killed 3 police officers on Jan 6.




????

Name them.

No, name _one._


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

Officer Brian D. Sicknick died the next day from injuries sustained during the riot.
Officer Jeffrey Smith and Officer Howard S. Liebengood ended their life within a week because of the emotional trauma they experience because of the event.


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Name the police officers killed on Jan 6 and how they died.
> 
> And thanks for proving my point by changing the subject.


I just refuted your comment. If anyone changed the subject, it was you.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Officer Brian D. Sicknick died the next day from injuries sustained during the riot.
> Officer Jeffrey Smith and Officer Howard S. Liebengood ended their life within a week because of the emotional trauma they experience because of the event.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-died-natural-causes/

You didn't refute anything. You just proved that nobody died on Jan 6th and none of them died at the hands of any Trump supporter.

The only people who were killed that day were two women. One was shot and the other, Roseanne Boyland, was beaten to death outside by Capitol police.


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

Other neurologists disagreed with that assessment. An officer had two strokes the night of the riots, yet magically those riots had nothing to do with his death? Bullshit. And Trump won the election.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Other neurologists disagreed with that assessment. An officer had two strokes the night of the riots, yet magically those riots had nothing to do with his death? Bullshit. And Trump won the election.


What part of he died the next day do you not understand? And there is no hard evidence that the two events are related, except in your imagination.

Not a single Capitol police officer died on Jan 6. Try again, young man, or maybe not. You're not very good at this.

Back to the topic at hand, a man is barred for running for office because of a misdemeanor. Nobody that day has been convicted or even charged with insurrection, treason or sedition. The 14th amendment doesn't even apply in this case. Try addressing the actual topic and see if you can do any better.


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## RAHelllord (Sep 21, 2022)

I love to see the right cope and seethe.

Looking forward to plenty more right wing politicians and judges being barred from office for their actions in relation to January 6th.


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> What part of he died the next day do you not understand? And there is no hard evidence that the two events are related, except in your imagination.
> 
> Not a single Capitol police officer died on Jan 6. Try again, young man, or maybe not. You're not very good at this.
> 
> Back to the topic at hand, a man is barred for running for office because of a misdemeanor. Nobody that day has been convicted or even charged with insurrection, treason or sedition. The 14th amendment doesn't even apply in this case. Try addressing the actual topic and see if you can do any better.


Who gives a fuck? He still had the stroke on the same day, and several neurologists believed it to be a contributing factor. That does not address the officers who were so distraught over those events that they took their own lives over the shit they saw that day, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you. They were just weak, right?

Let me make one thing clear to you. I'm not young. I just hate conservative bullshit.

The fact of the matter is that Jan 6 was an insurrection, and those involved should be barred from holding public office, Trump included. Hopeful, the cheeto will be in prison by the time the next election rolls around, but I won't hold my breath. You repubs are far to corrupt to ever let that happen.


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## mituzora (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Who gives a fuck? He still had the stroke on the same day, and several neurologists believed it to be a contributing factor. That does not address the officers who were so distraught over those events that they took their own lives over the shit they saw that day, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you. They were just weak, right?
> 
> Let me make one thing clear to you. I'm not young. I just hate conservative bullshit.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that Jan 6 was an insurrection, and those involved should be barred from holding public office, Trump included. Hopeful, the cheeto will be in prison by the time the next election rolls around, but I won't hold my breath. You repubs are far to corrupt to ever let that happen.


You're wasting your breath with Pat.  He doesn't listen to anybody but his own voice.  I've tried reasoning with him on posts like this before, and all he ever wants to hear is "you're a lefty, so your points are irrelevant"

I think it's funny how the Jan 6th incident is always compared to the riots and that they're supposed to be taken equally as bad.  

One was geared towards random shit(and the "looting" and shit is well over-blown too),  one was literally a storm on the capital. They are definitely not the same.  Sure they're both not okay, but one is essentially treason,  one is vandalism.  I would think the former would hold a much larger weight in terms of consequences.  don't you?


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## vincentx77 (Sep 21, 2022)

mituzora said:


> You're wasting your breath with Pat.  He doesn't listen to anybody but his own voice.  I've tried reasoning with him on posts like this before, and all he ever wants to hear is "you're a lefty, so your points are irrelevant"
> 
> I think it's funny how the Jan 6th incident is always compared to the riots and that they're supposed to be taken equally as bad.
> 
> One was geared towards random shit(and the "looting" and shit is well over-blown too),  one was literally a storm on the capital. They are definitely not the same.  Sure they're both not okay, but one is essentially treason,  one is vandalism.  I would think the former would hold a much larger weight in terms of consequences.  don't you?


I don't understand how the "YAY! America!" people can be so nonchalant about treason, which Jan 6 definitely was. The mental gymnastics they have been doing to say it wasn't republican's fault, to say it wasn't Trump's doing, and to shift the blame to outside groups like Antifa absolutely blow my mind. It's like they can't speak without lying. I don't know if it's cognitive dissonance or just willful disregard of every bit of evidence right in front of them.  

But yeah... I kinda figured he wouldn't listen. That didn't mean I wasn't going to bitch about it, though!


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## mituzora (Sep 21, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> I don't understand how the "YAY! America!" people can be so nonchalant about treason, which Jan 6 definitely was. The mental gymnastics they have been doing to say it wasn't republican's fault, to say it wasn't Trump's doing, and to shift the blame to outside groups like Antifa absolutely blow my mind. It's like they can't speak without lying. I don't know if it's cognitive dissonance or just willful disregard of every bit of evidence right in front of them.
> 
> But yeah... I kinda figured he wouldn't listen. That didn't mean I wasn't going to bitch about it, though!


That's the thing.  If it happened with a different party/presedent, they absolutely would be calling for their heads.  but because it happened to their party of choice, then there MUST be some reason that it's not treason.  

Imagine if it was clinton supporters (which mind you isn't a thing because most left leaning people don't go all cultist with their president like recent years) that stormed the capital.  they would be singing a completely different tune.  

I don't blame Trump entirely personally.  Though his pure presence in the white house was enough of a catalyst to set these "Good ol' boys" off into storming the capital, so by that extension, I guess I blame Trump lol.

It's crazy that the prior president of the US created a cult.  A cult so blinded by left hatred that they can't even see the insurrection right in-front of their eyes.


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> They get mad not because someone has been made to "face the consequences" but because there is no parity. I think the Hunter Biden example given above is a poor one, but Code Pink repeatedly breaking into the Senate and House chambers to disrupt proceedings when GWB was President is a good example. The riots in DC during Trump's inauguration and outside the White House in May 2020 are good examples. Leftist protesters and rioters get a pass, police are ordered to accommodate their chaos, theft, and destruction, mayors endorse providing them "space to destroy." But fools who got swept up into a crowd _being waved into the US Capitol by Capitol Police_ on Jan 6, who just walked around and took selfies (some were belligerent and disruptive, but many did nothing but "trespass"), are being sentenced to 5 years in prison or more after a year and a half of pretrial detention without bail. It's not that their crimes are being punished that is objectionable. It's that the punishments are disproportionate, and that the crimes of others aressimply ignored or even praised.


All of these are poor comparisons because none of them have anything to do with violently disrupting the peaceful transfer of power.  After pulling a stunt like that, disqualification from holding public office is nothing more than a slap on the wrist.  You and the other conservatives here are acting as though he got life in prison.

And god forbid the cops have to act slightly humble or timid for one summer after they themselves were the spark that set off protests to begin with.  Don't worry, the poor wittle babies went right back to their old murderous ways just weeks after the Chauvin conviction.  'Accountability' is still a four letter word amongst police unions, just as it is amongst republicans.


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## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> I don't blame Trump entirely personally.  Though his pure presence in the white house was enough of a catalyst to set these "Good ol' boys" off into storming the capital, so by that extension, I guess I blame Trump lol.
> 
> It's crazy that the prior president of the US created a cult.  A cult so blinded by left hatred that they can't even see the insurrection right in-front of their eyes.



I do blame Trump personally. His tweet that read "Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud 'more than sufficient' to swing victory to Trump https://t.co/D8KrMHnFdK . A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!" and the ones that followed whipped his followers into such a frenzy, on some level, they felt like that had no other recourse but to act. He brainwashed those people and many of them are. If he'd been a decent human being and accepted the results of a democratic election like an adult, none of this would've happened. We wouldn't be here having to discuss whether people should be disqualified from holding office because they participated in insurrection. The whole thing really just disgusts me.


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> I do blame Trump personally. His tweet that read "Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud 'more than sufficient' to swing victory to Trump https://t.co/D8KrMHnFdK . A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!" and the ones that followed whipped his followers into such a frenzy, on some level, they felt like that had no other recourse but to act. He brainwashed those people and many of them are. If he'd been a decent human being and accepted the results of a democratic election like an adult, none of this would've happened. We wouldn't be here having to discuss whether people should be disqualified from holding office because they participated in insurrection. The whole thing really just disgusts me.


That's fair, and I agree for the most part.  I think anyone involved shouldn't be allowed back into political power.  And I'm not saying I think trump is innocent, because he absolutely played a part,  which means I don't think he should be allowed to hold office again either. The only amount of blame I relieve from him is the that I guess he didn't physically storm the capital himself, but he certainly did incite the riot, so I guess that doesn't relieve him from much does it?  lmao


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## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

Nope, not too much. Especially since it was such a hardship for him to call off his peeps that he waited, what, 3 hours to make a statement telling them to stand down? All the while he was watching the mayhem unfold on Fox News. I've only got three words. LOCK HIM UP!


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

ahh communism, welcome to america!


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> That's fair, and I agree for the most part.  I think anyone involved shouldn't be allowed back into political power.  And I'm not saying I think trump is innocent, because he absolutely played a part,  which means I don't think he should be allowed to hold office again either. The only amount of blame I relieve from him is the that I guess he didn't physically storm the capital himself, but he certainly did incite the riot, so I guess that doesn't relieve him from much does it?  lmao



not only should he back in office , anyone who believes otherwise should be jailed with no jury or trial period.


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> not only should he back in office , anyone who believes otherwise should be jailed with no jury or trial period.


Cultism.  Case and point.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> Cultism.  Case and point.



if its cultist to go against a coup then yes, im a cultist i guess  # cultistlivesmatter


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Congrats, leftists, you've brought fascism to our shores.





lolcatzuru said:


> ahh communism, welcome to america!


"Fascist communism is when constitutional law is enforced." - Republicans


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Who gives a fuck? He still had the stroke on the same day, and several neurologists believed it to be a contributing factor. That does not address the officers who were so distraught over those events that they took their own lives over the shit they saw that day, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you. They were just weak, right?


Believing something to be true does not make it true. And you have provided zero proof that those two officers' suicides were caused by the events of that day. You are arguing using pure emotion not based in facts.


vincentx77 said:


> Let me make one thing clear to you. I'm not young. I just hate conservative bullshit.


Your hate does not concern me.


vincentx77 said:


> The fact of the matter is that Jan 6 was an insurrection, and those involved should be barred from holding public office, Trump included.


Then it's the only insurrection where not a single person has been charged for insurrection. Once again, you are arguing based on emotion.


vincentx77 said:


> Hopeful, the cheeto will be in prison by the time the next election rolls around, but I won't hold my breath. You repubs are far to corrupt to ever let that happen.


Are the walls closing in or is this the beginning of the end for Drumpf? Do you even know who runs the DOJ now? Garland could indict Trump any time he pleases for Russian collusion, the Ukraine phone call, the Georgia phone call, inshurekshun or any number of "crimes" he's supposedly committed in the last 6 years. Yet, the only thing I see is Drumpf playing golf and doing massive rallies around the country living his best life without a worry in the world.

You may not be young, but you sure are immature.


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> not only should he back in office , anyone who believes otherwise should be jailed with no jury or trial period.





lolcatzuru said:


> if its cultist to go against a coup then yes, im a cultist i guess  # cultistlivesmatter


So you're telling me that a belief that if anyone disagrees that a former idiot of a president shouldn't be back in office, they should be jailed period, no exceptions isn't cultist behaivor?  

oh wait, nah, it's not cultist, it's pretty fuckin' fascisit.  Oh, wait, they're kinda in the same ballpark aren't they?  

fuck outta here with that bullshit.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> "Fascist communism is when constitutional law is enforced." - Republicans



well brandon is in office, so yea it seems like it.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> So you're telling me that a belief that if anyone disagrees that a former idiot of a president shouldn't be back in office, they should be jailed period, no exceptions isn't cultist behaivor?
> 
> oh wait, nah, it's not cultist, it's pretty fuckin' fascisit.  Oh, wait, they're kinda in the same ballpark aren't they?
> 
> fuck outta here with that bullshit.



yes i do, because you are part of a cult and therefore dangerous, after what happened in ND theres no excuse.


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> yes i do, because you are part of a cult and therefore dangerous, after what happened in ND theres no excuse.


oh am I now?  I'm not the one calling for fascist-like behavior because I disagree with daddy trump.  Lemme guess, you think that all of the people who disagree should be shipped off to libtard camps?  god, and you wonder why people call you fucks nazis.

He's not in office anymore.  fuckin' deal with it.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> oh am I now?  I'm not the one calling for fascist-like behavior because I disagree with daddy trump.  Lemme guess, you think that all of the people who disagree should be shipped off to libtard camps?  god, and you wonder why people call you fucks nazis.
> 
> He's not in office anymore.  fuckin' deal with it.



im gonna do this point by point.

1. you are actually, you are a todd and live in a fantasy world.
2. No, im not a liberal, voices of dissent are welcome, and in fact encouraged.
3. Rascist to say you people, makes sense after the supreme court thing.
4.  Thats the problem yes

5. ironically, the person who is calling the other side a nazi is supporting the american nazi party aka dems.


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> im gonna do this point by point.
> 
> 1. you are actually, you are a todd and live in a fantasy world.
> 2. No, im not a liberal, voices of dissent are welcome, and in fact encouraged.
> ...


1.  I...I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about, so I'm just going to ignore this.

2.  Never called you a liberal.  If you're saying you disagree with Trump, you got a really weird way of showing it.

3.  Again, I don't know what you're talking about.  Race never came up in any sense of me interacting with you.

4. what?  what problem?  the fuck are you going on about?

5.  Making a lot of assumptions on who I support here....  Dems are idiots, just like the other side.  at least they aren't calling for anybody who has a differeing opinion about someone who should hold office to be arrested without question....


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

Coups are bad. We should punish people for them.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> 1.  I...I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about, so I'm just going to ignore this.
> 
> 2.  Never called you a liberal.  If you're saying you disagree with Trump, you got a really weird way of showing it.
> 
> ...



actually they are, you mustve missed where your guy labeled a huge chunk of the country extremists, and the murder that almost immediately ensued as a result.


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> actually they are, you mustve missed where your guy labeled a huge chunk of the country extremists, and the murder that almost immediately ensued as a result.


my "guy?"  

again making a loooooot of assumptions here.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Coups are bad. We should punish people for them.



correct, starting with the FBI


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> my "guy?"
> 
> again making a loooooot of assumptions here.



look, listen, i dont know you, im sure you are a much better person than me, but dont be a shadow liberal, at least own it if you bought into the cool-aid, its ok , you have big tech and hollywood on your side.


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

I am shocked but glad to see results actually happening.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I am shocked but glad to see results actually happening.



why shocked, socialism has infected america like a plague for a long time.


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> why shocked, socialism has infected america like a plague for a long time.


Do you know what Socialism is or are you just repeating buzzwords that you've heard?


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> look, listen, i dont know you, im sure you are a much better person than me, but dont be a shadow liberal, at least own it if you bought into the cool-aid, its ok , you have big tech and hollywood on your side.


Hollywood is a fucking joke and a cess pool of fuckery.  No thanks.  

Big tech?  I'm a fuckin' linux fanboy!  I hate big tech.

shadow liberal?  never denied that I'm pretty liberal.  Doesn't mean I support Biden though.  Dude's a turd sandwich.  There's one, maybe two things that's he's done that I was actually happy about.  Most notably the push for right-to-repair.

Thinking that someone should be barred from doing a job that they were very bad at?  that's not  a liberal thought.  That's a common sense thought.  If someone killed a bunch of people driving a bus,  I wouldn't want them driving again.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> Hollywood is a fucking joke and a cess pool of fuckery.  No thanks.
> 
> Big tech?  I'm a fuckin' linux fanboy!  I hate big tech.
> 
> ...



well being liberal im mean thats step one right there, supporting slavery was never a good thing,  and as far as being barred from a job,  they should absolutely, but the jan 6th charade does not qualify, hence going back to my arrest comment.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well being liberal im mean thats step one right there, supporting slavery was never a good thing,  and as far as being barred from a job,  they should absolutely, but the jan 6th charade does not qualify, hence going back to my arrest comment.


and so we're back to fascism then.  I thought there was like this thing called the 1st Amendment,  ever heard of it?  I heard that's supposed to like, protect free speech or something.  So you're telling me that you don't believe in the 1st Amendment because you think that anyone who disagrees that Trump should be back in office needs to get arrested? 

got it.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> and so we're back to fascism then.  I thought there was like this thing called the 1st Amendment,  ever heard of it?  I heard that's supposed to like, protect free speech or something.  So you're telling me that you don't believe in the 1st Amendment because you think that anyone who disagrees that Trump should be back in office needs to get arrested?
> 
> got it.



 that went away the moment words started to hurt. Also you wanna talk about facism, your guy wants to repeal an AMENDMENT and you dont seem to mind.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> Also you wanna talk about facism, your guy wants to repeal an AMENDMENT and you dont seem to mind.





mituzora said:


> never denied that I'm pretty liberal.  Doesn't mean I support Biden though.  Dude's a turd sandwich.


I remind you.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> I remind you.



you are lying.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> you are lying.


Wasn't it you who said:


lolcatzuru said:


> look, listen, i dont know you


So, I doubt you'd know if I was lying or not.  Again, quit. making. assumptions.  God, I'm starting to sound like a broken record.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> Wasn't it you who said:
> 
> So, I doubt you'd know if I was lying or not.  Again, quit. making. assumptions.  God, I'm starting to sound like a broken record.



its not an assumption though, i dont know why you are lying, perhaps its embarrassment or perhaps its just for enjoyment, but you seek to lie to be a contrarian.  the way i know you are lying is that you say you are liberal, but you dont support joe joe, but hey, ill extend an olive branch, what dont you like about him, im curious.


----------



## KennyAtom (Sep 22, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> I love to see the right cope and seethe.
> 
> Looking forward to plenty more right wing politicians and judges being barred from office for their actions in relation to January 6th.


We will replace those judges.

You can never kill off the right wing. Sure, we might be stopped for 3 or 4 weeks, but we will come back. We will always come back.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

KennyAtom said:


> We will replace those judges.
> 
> You can never kill off the right wing. Sure, we might be stopped for 3 or 4 weeks, but we will come back. We will always come back.


American judges are almost always going to be right-wing as there is no left-wing party or major movement in the US. Democrats are still on the right and often just as far to the right as Republicans.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> its not an assumption though, i dont know why you are lying, perhaps its embarrassment or perhaps its just for enjoyment, but you seek to lie to be a contrarian.  the way i know you are lying is that you say you are liberal, but you dont support joe joe, but hey, ill extend an olive branch, what dont you like about him, im curious.


He's an all-walk-no-talk politician that hasn't done a damn thing.  He's a face, and a fucking idiot.  plain and simple.  the little things he has tried to do haven't gone anywhere.  The only two things that I can think of that he's done that I've been excited about were the right-to-repair push and the whole college thing, but that's about it.  I don't care for politicians in general, and I think it's all just a stupid popularity contest.


----------



## KennyAtom (Sep 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> American judges are almost always going to be right-wing as there is no left-wing party or major movement in the US. Democrats are still on the right and often just as far to the right as Republicans.


Honestly, I was just trying to be melodramatic, but that is true as well. 

Democrats are on the right wing, just not as far on the right wing.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> He's an all-walk-no-talk politician that hasn't done a damn thing.  He's a face, and a fucking idiot.  plain and simple.  the little things he has tried to do haven't gone anywhere.  The only two things that I can think of that he's done that I've been excited about were the right-to-repair push and the whole college thing, but that's about it.  I don't care for politicians in general, and I think it's all just a stupid popularity contest.



well the last part i agree with actually, good for you, the college thing he may go away for, we will see, but he did also recently remove a statue of limitations for child sex crimes which is... ironic given the source, but thats also a good thing, i am curious who you did like.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well the last part i agree with actually, good for you, the college thing he may go away for, we will see, but he did also recently remove a statue of limitations for child sex crimes which is... ironic given the source, but thats also a good thing, i am curious who you did like.


Like I stated:


mituzora said:


> I don't care for politicians in general, and I think it's all just a stupid popularity contest.


I honestly don't have a good answer for you.  To quote south park, why do we always have to pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich?  I felt that way the primary candidates for the most part as well.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> Like I stated:
> 
> I honestly don't have a good answer for you.  To quote south park, why do we always have to pick between a giant douche and a turd sandwich?  I felt that way the primary candidates for the most part as well.


so then you go for the hippie approach, thats fine, i can get that, some times that does seem to be how it is, but that said, you also claim you dont like trump, he wasnt a politician initially, im curious, other than the TV telling you not to like him, that you dont like him


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## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> so then you go for the hippie approach, thats fine, i can get that, some times that does seem to be how it is, but that said, you also claim you dont like trump, he wasnt a politician initially, im curious, other than the TV telling you not to like him, that you dont like him


Simple,  he was a little rich whiny weasel using his political power as some sort of middle aged power-trip.  He used manipulative tactics to change otherwise decent people into cult-like followers willing to die for a fucking millionaire.  He's also mysoginistic little turd.   He was essentially reagan 2.0;  a TV politician using his stardom to get into power and then do some shit to overall benefit him and his rich pals, while simultaneously fucking over the middle and lower class.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> Simple,  he was a little rich whiny weasel using his political power as some sort of middle aged power-trip.  He used manipulative tactics to change otherwise decent people into cult-like followers willing to die for a fucking millionaire.  He's also mysoginistic little turd.   He was essentially reagan 2.0;  a TV politician using his stardom to get into power and then do some shit to overall benefit him and his rich pals, while simultaneously fucking over the middle and lower class.



well the last part im gonna have to go back to disagreeing with ( you were doing so well) and the cult part is equally untrue, i can understand not being in a cult as being viewed as a cultist in a way, but such is life.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> why shocked, socialism has infected america like a plague for a long time.


God I wish this was true


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> God I wish this was true



what do you mean wish? it is true, we are trying really hard to get away from it, but some really nuerdive people really seem to think its a good idea.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> what do you mean wish? it is true, we are trying really hard to get away from it, but some really nuerdive people really seem to think its a good idea.


No it isn't. Socialism is an awesome idea though.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> No it isn't. Socialism is an awesome idea though.



i mean, not really, but larping is fun so lets go with it.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i mean, not really, but larping is fun so lets go with it.


I dunno man, being able to go to the doctor whenever I need is a lot better than the choices being perpetual debt or death.


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I dunno man, being able to go to the doctor whenever I need is a lot better than the choices being perpetual debt or death.



you can do that now, most hospitals are open all the time, the difference is, for one you need money, the other, you needs months of time you may not have.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

I read that as peter griffin ngl


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> No it isn't. Socialism is an awesome idea though.


Isnt that just commuisum with a smiley face on it? because there very similar


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## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Isnt that just commuisum with a smiley face on it? because there very similar


Pretty much and we all know where that leads.





Oh wait sorry, North Korea isn't *real *Communism*.*


----------



## Acid_Snake (Sep 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Do you know what Socialism is or are you just repeating buzzwords that you've heard?


I was born in a socialist country and everything bad they say about it is 100% true, sometimes it's not even close to the real attrocities we've seen as most of that information has been erased, there's a reason why dictators love censorship.

Where did you learn about socialism? Let me guess, in some social studies class by some teacher that read some books written by some old farts hundreds of years ago.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> No it isn't. Socialism is an awesome idea though.


That's what Hitler said.


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Isnt that just commuisum with a smiley face on it? because there very similar


Not really, in a nutshell socialism is giving control over the means of production to the workers.  Communism is giving the state/government control of everything, with the expectation that they will redistribute the profits and resources gathered to the citizens.  Authoritarians don't bother with the second step, which turns the state into a dictatorship or oligarchy.

It's also possible to implement strong social policies and social safety nets within an otherwise capitalist framework, which is what we see happening in prosperous Scandinavian countries.  Social democracies, as it were.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 22, 2022)

@Xzi what's so funny?

More than a quarter million dead cubans in the bottom of the Caribean, is that so funny?

Girls and boys as young as 12 having to prostitute to feed themselves, is that so funny?

Cops standing outside middle and high schools sexually harrasing girls, is that so funny?

Homosexuals placed on a boat among common criminals (rapists, murderers, etc) and sent out to die at the sea with no supplies, is that so funny?

People dying in hospital floors with no medication to even calm the pain, is that so funny?

Little kids looking like living skeletons due to the horrible malnourishment, is that so funny?

Women marching peacefully in the streets protesting for the freedom of political prisoners getting beaten and brutalized in the middle of the streets by the police, is that so funny?

You @Xzi and that other dumbass @LainaGabranth  and anyone else who defends this can only be describe as *A FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT*.


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> @Xzi what's so funny?


That you believe the nazis were socialists when in fact Hitler had to have all the socialists murdered before he could consolidate power.  Even most Youtube historians know better.  It's right up there with believing that North Korea is a "democratic people's republic" just because that's what they call themselves.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Sniped


Man, you think that people realize that it dosen't work. Places like China and Russia had to take on capitalist idea's to stay upfloat, while other places failed to do so....... starve and are broke. Keep me the FUCK away, thank you very much


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Man, you think that people realize that it dosen't work. Places like China and Russia had to take on capitalist idea's to stay upfloat, while other places failed to do so....... starve and are broke. Keep me the FUCK away, thank you very much


Oh okay, so you weren't actually asking the question in good faith then.  Meanwhile, the US has 70% of people currently living paycheck to paycheck and subject to the whims of greedy landlords.  Homelessness and starvation are rampant, even among children.  The country's most prosperous decades being after the passage of the New Deal and when corporations were taxed at 80%+ to pay for strong social programs.  Gotta love people who don't know the first thing about history, foreign or domestic.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That you believe the nazis were socialists when in fact Hitler had to have all the socialists murdered before he could consolidate power.  Even most Youtube historians know better.  It's right up there with believing that North Korea is a "democratic people's republic" just because that's what they call themselves.


No, he didn't kill the socialists, he killed the communists, which were also nazis too (the National-Bolsheviks). And he did this exactly because as you should know, the socialists don't necessarily get along with the communists, and also because he needed to please the Bavarian rich oligarchs to get them on his side.

Nazi Germany was the peak of socialism in Europe at the time, the first state to abolish religion, first state to nationalize all industries, first state to implement labor laws to protect worker's rights (including the first nation in europe to implement paid vacations).

All of this came at a cost though, the same cost that had to be payed by each and every other Socialist society ever (be it China, Korea, Cuba, Russia, etc), and that was the evergrowing size and power of the government over its people, which ultimately leads to dystopia.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 22, 2022)

@Xzi the only thing funny here is your gigantic ignorance, but I guess that's what clowns do, react with laughter.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

Fun, i derailed another thread


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Nazi Germany was the peak of socialism in Europe at the time, the first state to abolish religion, first state to nationalize all industries, first state to implement labor laws to protect worker's rights (including the first nation in europe to implement paid vacations).


Socialism is an economic system, it has nothing to do with abolishing religion.  And nobody points to labor laws as being a big problem with the third reich.



Acid_Snake said:


> Socialist society ever (be it China, Korea, Cuba, Russia, etc)


See my truncated definitions above.  None of these nations ever gave control over the means of production to the workers, and by definition communism requires redistribution of wealth and resources.  They were authoritarian oligarchies at best, outright genocidal dictatorships at worst.  Even now China is a capitalist police state and/or oligarchy.  They simply don't want to admit that to themselves or their citizens.


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Fun, i derailed another thread


Needed to be derailed anyway, it was nothing but a whiny bitchfest for conservatives.  I'll leave you with this: both major US political parties are staunchly capitalist, and this is a nation which has been in decline for the last several decades.  This is not a coincidence.


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## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> you can do that now, most hospitals are open all the time, the difference is, for one you need *money*,


So, you think that everyone is equal in this current system?
That the guys who work 50 60 hours become the rich billionaires like musk, and Bazo's of the world? The people who bust their asses for a low shit wage, a wage _you_ intentionally kept low, have a reasonable chance to pay for those costs?

Fuck no they don't.

Our for profit health system is the most absurd, and ludicrous system in existence. We pay 3,000 dollars for a ambulance ride. You know what other countries pay for? Zero. And if it is paid, put in the ball park of lower than 100 dollars.


And because of the major pay disparity, it creates a two tier system, where people that aren't rich asshats, (aka the 90%) either barely can afford healthcare, or in my case, can't afford it at all. So we're stuck with medicaid, if we even get approved of that and aren't silently kicked off it, because you made the process so absurdly strict and stringent, that it takes an absurd amount of time to even get back on.


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## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Not really, in a nutshell socialism is giving control over the means of production to the workers. *Communism is giving the state/government control of everything*


erm no.
Communism is a *classless*, *stateless* society. Having a government would violate the both, unless of course (technically because what I'm going to mention doesn't enable a difference.) if it was direct democracy. Since everyone would technically count as the government, and thefore, a distinction without a difference and just becomes the populous again. (it can't stray from that either, can't remove a group of people from voting. Nor can police become a thing. The moment that happens, class and state is coming back. as the officers would act as such)

Now if we're talking about Leninism (Lennism's bullshit version of communism essentially. Basically took what Marx wrote, and scribbled ontop of it with black sharpie, and called it the definitive version of communism, an an authortian prick that I'd even go back in time if I could to punch the living crap out of him)
Then you'd be correct.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Isnt that just commuisum with a smiley face on it? because there very similar


Nope. In fact, many socialist movements have outright rejected communism as what it is: just authoritarianism with prettier aesthetics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows

Such as this party which opposed fascism, communism, and reactionary conservatism, or in this case monarchies. Workers having a say in the means of production while still having currency and wealth with ethical wages and hours is far from communism. The idea that socialism and communism are the same thing come from insane people who think communism is when your family lends you money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

The theories in these two wikipedia entries are vastly different


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> That's what Hitler said.


Hitler also said he wasn't a socialist, that he loathed socialists, and had them killed in the Night of the Long Knives once he took over the party that he explicitly said he used the aesthetics of to further his goals. You are not going to win an argument with someone who has read history, you dolt.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> @Xzi what's so funny?
> 
> More than a quarter million dead cubans in the bottom of the Caribean, is that so funny?
> 
> ...


Yeah I hate market systems too, I dunno why you're so upset about it though.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> @Xzi what's so funny?
> 
> More than a quarter million dead cubans in the bottom of the Caribean, is that so funny?
> 
> ...


wow, it's like capitalism fucking sucks. And that maybe we should do something about it. 

Because those issues you just said, is a creation of captalism.
IF there was no markets, we'd just feed people if they need to be feed. If there was no monetary incentive by say, the landlords, to get as much cash out of us as possible, those kids wouldn't have to prostuite, better yet, they could maybe have idk...

A good healthcare system? Collage? They'd never worry about being hungry.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Oh okay, so you weren't actually asking the question in good faith then.  Meanwhile, the US has 70% of people currently living paycheck to paycheck and subject to the whims of greedy landlords.  Homelessness and starvation are rampant, even among children.  The country's most prosperous decades being after the passage of the New Deal and when corporations were taxed at 80%+ to pay for strong social programs.  Gotta love people who don't know the first thing about history, foreign or domestic.


And how many of those 70% just bought the new iPhone 14? How many just took out 10 year loans to get a new $70,000 car? How many never cook for themselves and home delivery take out for every meal?

There are people who are truly struggling. But the 70% number hides the truth when there are people making $150,000 or more a year, yet are living paycheck to paycheck.

We have a massive missing number of the population that weren't educated financially, nor taught basic things to take care of themselves (cook, clean house, shower, do laundry, etc). But don't worry a new app was just released that will solve all your problems for a low, low $74.99 a month.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> American judges are almost always going to be right-wing as there is no left-wing party or major movement in the US. Democrats are still on the right and often just as far to the right as Republicans.


You are a perfect example of how far left leftists in this country have gone.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> wow, it's like capitalism fucking sucks. And that maybe we should do something about it.
> 
> Because those issues you just said, is a creation of captalism.
> IF there was no markets, we'd just feed people if they need to be feed. If there was no monetary incentive by say, the landlords, to get as much cash out of us as possible, those kids wouldn't have to prostuite, better yet, they could maybe have idk...
> ...


Wow... did you just call all of Cuba's issue with implementing communism a creation of capitalism? Be sure to go to Florida and spread the work to all the real refugees that they made the wrong discussion about coming to a capitalist country and should return to their communist utopia.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> I was born in a socialist country and everything bad they say about it is 100% true, sometimes it's not even close to the real attrocities we've seen as most of that information has been erased, there's a reason why dictators love censorship.
> 
> Where did you learn about socialism? Let me guess, in some social studies class by some teacher that read some books written by some old farts hundreds of years ago.


Just because you were born in a socialist country and saw first hand the atrocities that totalitarianism entails doesn't mean you know what real socialism is.

- Every leftist on this forum


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## KingVamp (Sep 22, 2022)

"Fascist". Says the people that are defending a guy that tried to help overturn an election.


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## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Wow... did you just call all of Cuba's issue with implementing communism a creation of capitalism? Be sure to go to Florida and spread the work to all the real refugees that they made the wrong discussion about coming to a capitalist country and should return to their communist utopia.


I dare any leftist to find any example of somebody fleeing capitalism for a socialist country looking for a better life.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> "Fascist". Says the people that are defending a guy that tried to help overturn an election.


Says that guy who claimed the 2016, 2004 and 2000 elections were fraudulent and illegitimate.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Wow... did you just call all of Cuba's issue with implementing communism a creation of capitalism? Be sure to go to Florida and spread the work to all the real refugees that they made the wrong discussion about coming to a capitalist country and should return to their communist utopia.


They had to choose to that because the states kept the sanctions on them. a move that prevented resources going to them, and literately was killing them.  The states did that in reaction by the way, of Cuba trying to go socialist, after they overthrew the dictatorship the United States put on them.

So it was through extreme amounts of coercion, and decades of the United States intentionally sabotaging them.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> And how many of those 70% just bought the new iPhone 14? How many just took out 10 year loans to get a new $70,000 car? How many never cook for themselves and home delivery take out for every meal?
> 
> There are people who are truly struggling. But the 70% number hides the truth when there are people making $150,000 or more a year, yet are living paycheck to paycheck.
> 
> We have a massive missing number of the population that weren't educated financially, nor taught basic things to take care of themselves (cook, clean house, shower, do laundry, etc). But don't worry a new app was just released that will solve all your problems for a low, low $74.99 a month.


I think you at least need to prove there's a significant number of people who have bought a recent phone or car to undermine the statistic.

Most people buy a phone and stick with what works for years, same with a car. And "never cooks for themselves" would probably tie into your later point of how many people were never taught basic skills. When you're trying to make sure ends meet, you're probably going to choose the food service rather than risk fucking it up and losing time. Of course, cooking isn't that scary given time but I cannot blame someone's lack of confidence when it comes to the stove.

But sure, new hypothetical app that people are totally buying into.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> They had to choose to that because the states kept the sanctions on them. a move that prevented resources going to them, and literately was killing them.  The states did that in reaction by the way, of Cuba trying to go socialist, after they overthrew the dictatorship the United States put on them.
> 
> So it was through extreme amounts of coercion, and decades of the United States intentionally sabotaging them.


My mother in law fled Cuba and it wasn't for those reasons. She was arrested for buying meat on the wrong day because her family was starving. The person who turned her in was the farmer who sold her the meat. She said you can't trust anybody in a socialist country because you never know who will turn on you.

You should talk to actual Cubans here in south Florida, especially the ones who lived through it. You'd learn a lot about the atrocities that the history books omit.


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Says that guy who claimed the 2016, 2004 and 2000 elections were fraudulent and illegitimate.


I'm sure you got evidence for all these claims I supposedly said, which would still not be the same as the people that are actually trying to overturn the election.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> I was born in a socialist country and everything bad they say about it is 100% true, sometimes it's not even close to the real attrocities we've seen as most of that information has been erased, there's a reason why dictators love censorship.
> 
> Where did you learn about socialism? Let me guess, in some social studies class by some teacher that read some books written by some old farts hundreds of years ago.


If you don’t mind me asking, where were you born?


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> My mother in law fled Cuba and it wasn't for those reasons. She was arrested for buying meat on the wrong day because her family was starving. The person who turned her in was the farmer who sold her the meat. She said you can't trust anybody in a socialist country because you never know who will turn on you.
> 
> You should talk to actual Cubans here in south Florida, especially the ones who lived through it. You'd learn a lot about the atrocities that the history books omit.


which time period? Because I ask if it was during US occupation. Or if it was post Occupation. If it was post occupation, then no it doesn't change anything of what I just said, aka, the sanctions.
Your on limited resources by artificial means, that doesn't mean it's any more right for them to do that to your mom. But tensions between people become high when resources (normally or artificially) become low.
 If it was during US occupation, then that's even worse (though not surprising), since the Dictator the states installed was being unfair/gross on resources for no good reason


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## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> which time period? Because I ask if it was during US occupation. Or if it was post Occupation. If it was post occupation, then no it doesn't change anything of what I just said, aka, the sanctions.
> Your on limited resources by artificial means, that doesn't mean it's any more right for them to do that to your mom. But tensions between people become high when resources (normally or artificially) become low.
> If it was during US occupation, then that's even worse (though not surprising), since the Dictator the states installed was being unfair/gross on resources for no good reason


Blah, blah, blah, "IT WASN'T TRUE SOCIALISM". Gotcha.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> There are people who are truly struggling.


And it's obvious by your post you couldn't possibly care less about them.  Same for your political party of choice, which keeps the vast majority of their voter base in trailer parks for life.  Nihilism is beneficial strictly for the already-rich.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> I'm sure you got evidence for all these claims I supposedly said, which would still not be the same as the people that are actually trying to overturn the election.


You have zero evidence anybody tried to overturn an election. Not a single person has even been charged with insurrection, sedition or treason, yet the left still calls it an insurrection.

Fun fact: trespassing does not an insurrection make.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> which time period? Because I ask if it was during US occupation. Or if it was post Occupation. If it was post occupation, then no it doesn't change anything of what I just said, aka, the sanctions.
> Your on limited resources by artificial means, that doesn't mean it's any more right for them to do that to your mom. But tensions between people become high when resources (normally or artificially) become low.
> If it was during US occupation, then that's even worse (though not surprising), since the Dictator the states installed was being unfair/gross on resources for no good reason


She fled back in the 50's soon after Castro took power. She said that Bautista was infinitely better than Castro and I trust her first hand experience over somebody who's reading it from a book.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You have zero evidence anybody tried to overturn an election. Not a single person has even been charged with insurrection, sedition or treason, yet the left still calls it an insurrection.


dude... The judge here incited the 14th amendment. Aka, the treason clause. did you not read the article?


"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, *shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion* against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

And the oath keepers got nailed with sedition, and prosecuted on it. Both charged and dealt.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ju...s-guilty-sedition-capitol-riot-case-rcna27294 
like literately plead guilty.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And it's obvious by your post you couldn't possibly care less about them.  Same for your political party of choice, which keeps the vast majority of their voter base in trailer parks for life.  Nihilism is beneficial strictly for the already-rich.


There's a very large difference from somebody not being able to purchase enough food to keep their families from being hungry. And middle manager Mike over spending on a $750,000 house, with his 2022 Tesla, Getting uber eats every day.

One of these is a life style choice, the other needs and is hopefully getting help by the social programs that are already in place. But poverty is the US is still much better than many, many other places.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

Isn't it funny how the right constantly larps about how strong and cool they are, and how they'll *NEVER* let socialism take root in their country (not that they own it lmao) but the very fucking instant they face any opposition whatsoever, usually from the constitution, they talk about how _super deeply rooted_ socialism is, _destroying EVERYTHING it touches, rotting America from the inside!!_ and other highly performative language? 

Very strange.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You have zero evidence anybody tried to overturn an election. Not a single person has even been charged with insurrection, sedition or treason, yet the left still calls it an insurrection.
> 
> Fun fact: trespassing does not an insurrection make.


Was the election stolen? Yes or no.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> dude... The judge here incited the 14th amendment. Aka, the treason clause. did you not read the article?
> 
> 
> "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, *shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion* against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
> ...


And it will be challenged in court. I have yet to see Griffin charged and convicted by in a court of law. This is just an activist judge ruling from the bench.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> But poverty is the US is still much better than many, many other places.


If we're comparing it to third-world nations, sure, but by the nature of that very comparison we'd have to classify the US as a third-world nation as well.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> dude... The judge here incited the 14th amendment. Aka, the treason clause. did you not read the article?


Mr. Griffin was not affiliated with the Oath Keepers. He was only charged for trespassing. So you want to bar people from running for office because of what other people do? That's pretty fascist.


Nothereed said:


> "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, *shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion* against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
> 
> And the oath keepers got nailed with sedition, and prosecuted on it. Both charged and dealt.


The Oath Keepers were also infiltrated by the FBI, just like the guys in Michigan in the Wretched Whitmer kidnapping case where there were more FBI informants than militia people.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> And it will be challenged in court. I have yet to see Griffin charged and convicted by in a court of law. This is just an activist judge ruling from the bench.


Do you not understand how precedent works? The last time that clause was used was back after the civil war. IF this was truely a "activist woke leftists waaaaaah" wouldn't they had ruled idk, right after January 6th. Why wait until now? Is it perhaps that it took a fuck ton of deliberation to decide that yes, it did apply.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> And it will be challenged in court. I have yet to see Griffin charged and convicted by in a court of law. This is just an activist judge ruling from the bench.


It's not an activist judge when they rule in the left's favor.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> The Oath Keepers were also infiltrated by the FBI,


Did. I really just.

Nope. you just said that.

Mkay.

Welp, that's enough koolaid and copium for my week.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> It's not an activist judge when they rule in the left's favor.


So if they unfairly ruled in the right that would also make it okay?
OKaaaaay then. mask off much



TraderPatTX said:


> He was only charged for trespassing. So you want to bar people from running for office because of what other people do? That's pretty fascist.


It's not that, read the article. It's giving aid or comfort to enemies. If a group of people try to overthrow the united states goverment, it is, by proxy, a enemy, and giving comfort to them is well, violation of the 14th.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Did. I really just.
> 
> Nope. you just said that.
> 
> ...


Maybe you need a pepsi? Always works for me!


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Other neurologists disagreed with that assessment. An officer had two strokes the night of the riots, yet magically those riots had nothing to do with his death? Bullshit. And Trump won the election.


I'd have a stroke or two if I fought to defend a fake election and condemned generations of humanity to be cultivated as petri dish specimens.

For those in a rush to get their cankles twisted, this is an easy response to show that person A is not automatically responsible for person B's suicide; existentially by stroke, or otherwise.

Jan 6th is a narrative to centralize power, not a genuine interest in the well-being of humanity.  It's amazing that "leftists" are so interested in fortifying the sanctity of the political machine that threatens their well-being.

I could say that I am more of a leftist and have objective measures to prove it.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> So, you think that everyone is equal in this current system?
> That the guys who work 50 60 hours become the rich billionaires like musk, and Bazo's of the world? The people who bust their asses for a low shit wage, a wage _you_ intentionally kept low, have a reasonable chance to pay for those costs?
> 
> Fuck no they don't.
> ...



well idk what a bazos is, but im in. but hey ive always said this i am HAPPY to support this cause, all i need you to do is take a paid day, sign a form, and preorder a cell, maybe one with a nice view, so that way when we see the absolutely horrific state our our healthcare system under a socialist system, significantly worse than it is now, we know who to hold responsible.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> so that way when we see the absolutely horrific state our our healthcare system under a socialist system, significantly worse than it is now, we know who to hold responsible.


How the fuck does it get any worse than potentially going into debt for life for a single medical bill?  People in states along the Northern border already go to Canada for treatments/surgeries, along the Southern border to Mexico.  The US healthcare system is the biggest joke among all developed nations.  Y'all take some serious Ls trying to defend the indefensible.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> How the fuck does it get any worse than potentially going into debt for life for a single medical bill?  People in states along the Northern border already go to Canada for treatments/surgeries, along the Southern border to Mexico.  The US healthcare system is the biggest joke among all developed nations.



It's not really a joke if it is intentional and only promises to become worse under the pretense of "socialism".

Forcing everyone to pay for the insurance companies and pharmaceutical contracts isn't going to make the medicine better.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not really a joke if it is intentional and only promises to become worse under the pretense of "socialism".
> 
> Forcing everyone to pay the insurance companies isn't going to make the medicine better.


The "socialist" option would eliminate healthcare insurance companies altogether.  Yet again you demonstrate your ignorance by conflating the capitalist Democratic party with actual socialist policies.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The "socialist" option would eliminate healthcare insurance companies altogether.  Yet again you demonstrate your ignorance by conflating the capitalist Democratic party with actual socialist policies.



Oh.  There is a socialist option?  I didn't know that.  Please tell me how to choose it, elden lord.

I admit I am rather ignorant.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Oh.  There is a socialist option?  I didn't know that.  Please tell me how to elect for that.
> 
> I admit I am rather ignorant.


It's Bernie's proposal, Medicare for all.  Everybody pays in via taxes, everybody's covered.  No insurance company middlemen.  More or less the same way things work in Canada and European countries.  It's not really socialism as much as it is a social program.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's Bernie's proposal, Medicare for all.  Everybody pays in via taxes, everybody's covered.  No insurance company middlemen.  More or less the same way things work in Canada and European countries.  It's not really socialism as much as it is a social program.



Literally (unironically) proving my point.  Thanks.  

Also, let me know when that "option" isn't a crapshoot.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> There's a very large difference from somebody not being able to purchase enough food to keep their families from being hungry. And middle manager Mike over spending on a $750,000 house, with his 2022 Tesla, Getting uber eats every day.
> 
> One of these is a life style choice, the other needs and is hopefully getting help by the social programs that are already in place. But poverty is the US is still much better than many, many other places.


I'm begging you to please stop trying to bring up this hypothetical super specific person to dismiss that entire statistic. Manager Mike might exist and count towards the 70%. And? Still haven't proven that's the case significant enough to be a relevant example, nor does it cancel out everyone "truly suffering". This doesn't achieve anything.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Literally (unironically) proving my point.  Thanks.


Your point that everybody would have to pay insurance companies?  The ones that would no longer be necessary or relevant under such a plan?

The only arguments against M4A are selfish and/or narcissistic ones, so right up your alley it seems.  For my part I'd much rather have my taxes go to cover others' medical expenses as well as my own, instead of going toward corporate welfare and building bombs.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> How the fuck does it get any worse than potentially going into debt for life for a single medical bill?  People in states along the Northern border already go to Canada for treatments/surgeries, along the Southern border to Mexico.  The US healthcare system is the biggest joke among all developed nations.  Y'all take some serious Ls trying to defend the indefensible.


well the last sentence, im gonna need a major translation, not familiar with that dialect at all.  Well people having to deliver in their car, losing this ability to walk, limbs not healing properly, and so on and so forth, in fact englands health care system was labeled a public health crisis it worked so well! I have a solution to this problem, as ive had for a long time. it starts with ALOT of cuffs and cells, then we get a non corrupt leader in office, and then we cancel the national debt and then boom, youll magically be able to afford everything you need.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> I'm begging you to please stop trying to bring up this hypothetical super specific person to dismiss that entire statistic. Manager Mike might exist and count towards the 70%. And? Still haven't proven that's the case significant enough to be a relevant example, nor does it cancel out everyone "truly suffering". This doesn't achieve anything.



people have a hard time gripping reality when it doesnt suit them.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> I'm begging you to please stop trying to bring up this hypothetical super specific person to dismiss that entire statistic. Manager Mike might exist and count towards the 70%. And? Still haven't proven that's the case significant enough to be a relevant example, nor does it cancel out everyone "truly suffering". This doesn't achieve anything.


and im begging you to start sucking deez nuts (Shitpost, don't go nuclear like the last guy who got deez nuts's)


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> people have a hard time gripping reality when it doesnt suit them.


Like the reality that there are more people outside of "have expensive car" and "buy food delivery" tropes.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> I have a solution to this problem, as ive had for a long time. it starts with ALOT of cuffs and cells


I'm waiting for Trump to be jailed too, but that's not gonna solve the laundry list of problems with the US healthcare system.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Like the reality that there are more people outside of "have expensive car" and "buy food delivery" tropes.



well you just hit the nail on the head " more people" tehy dont care about anyone else only themselves,  they always pull the "well even if it saves one life card" but its not because they care, its because it makes them look morally balanced.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Your point that everybody would have to pay insurance companies?  The ones that would no longer be necessary or relevant under such a plan?
> 
> The only arguments against M4A are selfish and/or narcissistic ones, so right up your alley it seems.  For my part I'd much rather have my taxes go to cover others' medical expenses as well as my own, instead of going toward corporate welfare and building bombs.



Insurance would be subsidized by the government and likely subcontracted, not eliminated.  You also don't address the pharmaceutical contracts and patents.

M4A is just a socialist policy, when stapled to medical exploitation that already exists, would only enable medical exploitation of all, plus forced payment of services rendered to others.

Even if your "option" (lol) actually happened, your taxes would go toward bombs _*and *_tax-payer funded cancer.  Yay, more taxes.  Thanks @Xzi.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm waiting for Trump to be jailed too, but that's not gonna solve the laundry list of problems with the US healthcare system.



i dont know how jailing an american hero solves anything, id start with the people in power now and shelf that idea.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Insurance would be subsidized by the government and likely subcontracted, not eliminated. You also don't address the pharmaceutical contracts and patents.


There are no subsidies for insurance companies included in M4A, which is why the capitalist Democratic party was so opposed to it and made sure to consolidate support behind Biden just prior to Super Tuesday.  Pharmaceutical contracts and patents are entirely beside the point when generics exist and are much cheaper (until insurance companies get involved).



tabzer said:


> M4A is just a socialist policy, when stapled to medical exploitation that already exists, would only enable medical exploitation of all, plus forced payment.


That makes no goddamn sense at all.  M4A would more or less replace the existing system, while only the dumbest of rubes would still turn to private insurance to cover their ridiculous medical expenses.



tabzer said:


> Even if your "option" (lol) actually happened, your taxes would go toward bombs and subsidized cancer.


Partly, yes.  There's no getting around that because the working class has to pay the entirety of their taxes, while the wealthy capitalist class hires tax attorneys to help them avoid paying as much as possible.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i dont know how jailing an american hero solves anything, id start with the people in power now and shelf that idea.


Trump has plenty of power and influence even if he is not currently in office. He has shaped how the Republican party to where many have reversed their standing with him just because he brings votes. 

If you cannot hold someone accountable, especially someone if his standing, the whole system is fucked. Not even addressing his status as a "hero", but it really doesn't matter.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Trump has plenty of power and influence even if he is not currently in office. He has shaped how the Republican party to where many have reversed their standing with him just because he brings votes.
> 
> If you cannot hold someone accountable, especially someone if his standing, the whole system is fucked. Not even addressing his status as a "hero", but it really doesn't matter.



i never said dont hold him accountable ( though idk how you hold him accountable for being a good president, maybe its like a reversal hold accountable thing) but we should hold the actual (fake) president accountable, plus the house who is trying to pass an illegal bill as we speak because of november.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i never said dont hold him accountable ( though idk how you hold him accountable for being a good president, maybe its like a reversal hold accountable thing) but we should hold the actual (fake) president accountable, plus the house who is trying to pass an illegal bill as we speak because of november.


Trump was a ok president in my book, as well as obama


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Trump was a ok president in my book, as well as obama



well i can't comment too much on obi, i wasnt as involved in poltics then as i am now, most people have had that opinion, but yes, trump was a fine president, contrary to popular belief


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i never said dont hold him accountable ( though idk how you hold him accountable for being a good president, maybe its like a reversal hold accountable thing) but we should hold the actual (fake) president accountable, plus the house who is trying to pass an illegal bill as we speak because of november.


Ah yeah okay. I see now. You're *only* wrong and use of "fake" tells me you're the kind of wrong that is beyond saving.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's Bernie's proposal, Medicare for all.  Everybody pays in via taxes, everybody's covered.  No insurance company middlemen.  More or less the same way things work in Canada and European countries.  It's not really socialism as much as it is a social program.


FYI, we already have a government insurance. It's called the VA, remind me how well they work? Oh the vets are waiting years to get treated. Well that's what you'd get with Medicaid for all.

You say people are going to Canada. But Canadians and Europeans are also coming to the US rather than waiting years for surgery for non lift threatening issues, but are major quality of life issues.

And don't look at all the old people being told to die in Canada rather than being treated due to the expense and limited resources. They had a good life. But the people making those decisions totally aren't the death panels that were warned would happen.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Ah yeah okay. I see now. You're *only* wrong and use of "fake" tells me you're the kind of wrong that is beyond saving.



what do you mean? what does fake have anything to do with unless.... you dont believe in your institutions?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Ah yeah okay. I see now. You're *only* wrong and use of "fake" tells me you're the kind of wrong that is beyond saving.


there's been several fucking investigations, and most of them failed


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> what do you mean? what does fake have anything to do with unless.... you dont believe in your institutions?


You're the one who said "actual (fake) president", why are you saying I'm the one who doesn't believe in the institutions.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> You're the one who said "actual (fake) president", why are you saying I'm the one who doesn't believe in the institutions.



because an institution confirmed they intentionally rigged the election to get biden in?


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> There are no subsidies for insurance companies included in M4A, which is why the capitalist Democratic party was so opposed to it and made sure to consolidate support behind Biden just prior to Super Tuesday.



The government would be the "subsidized insurance policy" and you can bet your ass that companies enabling the process will be contracted.  See Obama's $1.7 billion website as an example.  Imagine that, but with things that actually cost money.



Xzi said:


> Pharmaceutical contracts and patents are entirely beside the point when generics exist and are much cheaper (until insurance companies get involved).



Oh yeah?  FDA would like would like to negotiate terms with you.



Xzi said:


> That makes no goddamn sense at all. M4A would more or less replace the existing system, while only the dumbest of rubes would still turn to private insurance to cover their ridiculous medical expenses.



You are addressing an argument that I didn't present.  Assuming that you are kind of keen to what I am talking about, let's pretend that the M4A would de-incentivize doctors and hospitals from hooking customers into their lifetime subscription of no-cures and "treatments".  How?



Xzi said:


> Partly, yes. There's no getting around that because the working class has to pay the entirety of their taxes, while the wealthy capitalist class hires tax attorneys to help them avoid paying as much as possible.



You are the one hooked onto the 2 party system, not me.  Don't pretend I am the one proposing that to you.  lol.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Trump was a ok president in my book, as well as obama


I can't have a favorable opinion of Obama due to much of the racial tension going on came out due his policies.

As well as his complete manhandling of the 2008 financial crisis which extended the down turn to several years longer than it should have run. But kept zero interest rates along with all the free money for businesses creating the issues we're facing now.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

Im waiting for you all to start kissing rn cause you all so angry.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> because an institution confirmed they intentionally rigged the election to get biden in?


You gonna name that institution or just play this silly game of chase here?


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> because an institution confirmed they intentionally rigged the election to get biden in?


I mean while campaigning Biden did say. “We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Did. I really just.
> 
> Nope. you just said that.
> 
> ...


You really should read up on all the FBI whistleblowers, especially Steve Friend. Makes one wonder how many internal investigations for corruption and abuse of power are going on inside the FBI as we speak.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> You gonna name that institution or just play this silly game of chase here?



what do you mean? it was huge news, though i guess CNN wont cover anything bad.  The FBI ( and sadly no, not the female body inspectors) confirmed they lied to facebook and called the Hunter biden laptop story " disinformation" and "encouraged" them to keep an eye on it, which zucky was happy to do, so he did some tricky algorithm shit ( all openly admitted on the joe rogan podcast, i know that demon) and now that we know for certain that this happened, and that a pretty big amount of voters would not have voted the way that did, fake seems fitting, or at least, illegitimate


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I mean while campaigning Biden did say. “We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”



yea but they dont even like him so that doesnt count.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> The government would be the "subsidized insurance policy" and you can bet your ass that companies enabling the process will be contracted. See Obama's $1.7 billion website as an example. Imagine that, but with things that actually cost money.


Obamacare, AKA the ACA, AKA Romneycare, was designed entirely around insurance company middlemen to begin with.  It's a capitalist system, so of course they're included and/or prioritized.



tabzer said:


> Oh yeah? FDA would like would like to negotiate terms with you.


Alright, tree fitty is the highest I'll go.  On anything.



tabzer said:


> Assuming that you are kind of keen to what I am talking about, let's pretend that the M4A would de-incentivize doctors and hospitals from hooking customers into their subscription of lifetime of no-cures and "treatments". How?


Assuming your conspiracy theory is correct (which is a stretch), there's no way to fix that as long as our overall economic system still prioritizes money over human life.  Long-term treatment plans are always going to be more profitable than cures, even if the government is being billed for them instead of insurance companies.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well you just hit the nail on the head " more people" tehy dont care about anyone else only themselves,  they always pull the "well even if it saves one life card" but its not because they care, its because it makes them look morally balanced.


Martha's Vineyard is a prime example of "we care, just don't bring it into our neighborhoods" mentality. Pretty amazing they had the National Guard there within a couple of days to deport these brown people off the island. Leftists want other people to deal with the consequences of their ideals. Gotta make sure to keep the brown people in poor neighborhoods where they belong, amirite comrades?


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> what do you mean? it was huge news, though i guess CNN wont cover anything bad.  The FBI ( and sadly no, not the female body inspectors) confirmed they lied to facebook and called the Hunter biden laptop story " disinformation" and "encouraged" them to keep an eye on it, which zucky was happy to do, so he did some tricky algorithm shit ( all openly admitted on the joe rogan podcast, i know that demon) and now that we know for certain that this happened, and that a pretty big amount of voters would not have voted the way that did, fake seems fitting, or at least, illegitimate


Oh you just. Don't know what it means to rig an election. You also cannot confirm "pretty big amount of voters would not have voted the way that they* did". Like that's just out of thin air. It's more likely Biden's votes came from antipartisanship.

Also I don't read CNN. Don't make stupid assumptions.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> yea but they dont even like him so that doesnt count.


It's also what they call a joke. After audits constantly reaffirmed his victory. Numerous times.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Oh you just. Don't know what it means to rig an election. You also cannot confirm "pretty big amount of voters would not have voted the way that they* did". Like that's just out of thin air. It's more likely Biden's votes came from antipartisanship.
> 
> Also I don't read CNN. Don't make stupid assumptions.



would you be willing to admit you are objectively wrong if i could prove it?


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> It's also what they call a joke. After audits constantly reaffirmed his victory. Numerous times.



thats a lie, only a few states audited, most of them refused


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I mean while campaigning Biden did say. “We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”


In their defense, everything "President" Vegetable says gets walked back by the White House anyway. We all know he's not in charge, the administrative state is. The guy can't even find his way off of a stage but is always coherent enough to call 75 million people a threat to "democracy" or a clear and present danger or violent extremist, all the while some crazy leftist runs over and kills a teenager because BlueAnon says he's an inshurekshonist.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Im waiting for you all to start kissing rn cause you all so angry.


Only if it's wet, sloppy kisses.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> would you be willing to admit you are objectively wrong if i could prove it?


Yes, you should probably actually source your claims from the first place.


lolcatzuru said:


> thats a lie, only a few states audited, most of them refused


You don't know what a lie means either. Yes, audits occurred only in some states. And those audits... "constantly reaffirmed his victory". In those states. Numerous times. You not filling in the rest is not me lying, that's all on you.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Yes, you should probably actually source your claims from the first place.
> 
> You don't know what a lie means either. Yes, audits occurred only in some states. And those audits... "constantly reaffirmed his victory". In those states. Numerous times. You not filling in the rest is not me lying, that's all on you.



well i wouldnt need to, your institution admitted to this, but im feeling generous

https://cdn.mrc.org/TPC-MRC+Biden+Voter+Messaging+Survey+Analysis+Nov+2020_final.pdf

now please.... PLEASE start trusting the institutions  when they say they interfered, thanks.


oh and second reference so that way you when you say " well we dont know how it wouldve impacted the numbers" you can look like joe joe

https://www.cookpolitical.com/2020-national-popular-vote-tracker





AZ: 273,807
GA: 408,738
NV: 85,996
MI: 322,498
NH: 12,969
PA: 507,343
WI: 256,565
MN: 58,891


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Yes, you should probably actually source your claims from the first place.
> 
> You don't know what a lie means either. Yes, audits occurred only in some states. And those audits... "constantly reaffirmed his victory". In those states. Numerous times. You not filling in the rest is not me lying, that's all on you.



so then you admit it only occurred in some states, its not possible that the fraud happened elsewhere?


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> In their defense, everything "President" Vegetable says gets walked back by the White House anyway. We all know he's not in charge, the administrative state is. The guy can't even find his way off of a stage but is always coherent enough to call 75 million people a threat to "democracy" or a clear and present danger or violent extremist, all the while some crazy leftist runs over and kills a teenager because BlueAnon says he's an inshurekshonist.



kills a teenager AND walks free


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Im waiting for you all to start kissing rn cause you all so angry.



holy crap... hunter is that you?!?! can i have some of your chinese money? food has gotten crazy since your dad was put in charge. well not really you dad, probably kamala or pelosi, but you know what i mean.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Obamacare, AKA the ACA, AKA Romneycare, was designed entirely around insurance company middlemen to begin with. It's a capitalist system, so of course they're included and/or prioritized.



So you imagine capitalism will disappear with the M4A?  How are you suggesting that the government's choice to subcontract a website was dictated by insurance companies?  Oh, "Romneycare", that's funny.  Nobody likes Romney, but everyone sees you trying to push this away from Obama.



Xzi said:


> Assuming your conspiracy theory is correct (which is a stretch), there's no way to fix that as long as our overall economic system still prioritizes money over human life. Long-term treatment plans are always going to be more profitable than cures, even if the government is being billed for them instead of insurance companies.



It's not a conspiracy theory.  It's an economic model.  You are even saying so in your second sentence.  Are _*you*_ a 2 party system.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

Can you point to the slides as evidence? Because every single graph shows that people unaware of the various controversies would've still voted for Biden, usually around 80% (I checked like 2 graphs and just noticed "still voted" still tops on all of them, this is me being transparent). I'm not denying the FBI is shady and awful, but this still isn't rigging.


lolcatzuru said:


> so then you admit it only occurred in some states, its not possible that the fraud happened elsewhere?


Fraud did happen, not enough to shift the election. It's why we're aware of fraud for both candidates.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So you imagine capitalism will disappear with the M4A?


Capitalism in the US isn't going anywhere, but M4A does bypass the most capitalist part of our healthcare system: insurance company leeches.  That's also why the establishment will likely never allow it to become law, those leeches donate to both parties.



tabzer said:


> It's not a conspiracy theory. It's an economic model.


Right, but there's no way to confirm we have cures which are being withheld from public knowledge.  We _do_ have cures for certain diseases and ailments, after all, and why would we have any if the only motive among all healthcare workers was profit? Too many people would have to be involved in such a cover-up, thus there would be whistleblowers. That's the conspiracy theory part of it.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

you cant read slides? thats a shame anyway, 7, 8, and 9 should help you out chief, particularly the graph where the options say, and let me help because reading comprehension is hell of a drug,

*switched your vote to donald trump: 4%

voted for 3rd party candidate: 4%

skipped voting for pres but wouldve voted for other offices: 4%

would have not voted at all.*



Tsukiru said:


> Can you point to the slides as evidence? Because every single graph shows that people unaware of the various controversies would've still voted for Biden, usually around 80% (I checked like 2 graphs and just noticed "still voted" still tops on all of them, this is me being transparent). I'm not denying the FBI is shady and awful, but this still isn't rigging.
> 
> Fraud did happen, not enough to shift the election. It's why we're aware of fraud for both candidates.



but how do you know that if we couldnt see it in every state? also what do you call it when an institution makes sure a social media platform hides a story that will affect their candidate?


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Fraud did happen, not enough to shift the election. It's why we're aware of fraud for both candidates.



TBF, the claim that "not enough to shift the election" cannot be substantiated.  It is believable that if the FBI didn't suppress the Biden Laptop from becoming public knowledge, that it would have absolutely resulted in a kerfuffle, bolstering Trump's chances.  That's not to say that if Tump was free from shenanigans that he would have achieved "voting majority".

The point is that we have crossed that threshold of American elections being fair, clear, or transparent.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Believing something to be true does not make it true. And you have provided zero proof that those two officers' suicides were caused by the events of that day. You are arguing using pure emotion not based in facts.
> 
> Your hate does not concern me.
> 
> ...


You mean golfing with the Saudis, you know, the guys who funded 9/11? They DOJ won’t charge him until they can make sure the case is air tight. He has enough money and lawyers that he can get away with practically anything. If you can’t see the shit he gets away with on practically a daily basis, that’s a you problem.

I have a degree in Psychology and I actually understand how human behavior tends to work. That’s not emotional on my end. It’s clinical. Denying that there is more than a casual link between the suicides of those two officers and the events of Jan 6 is absurd. Those are facts. I’m sorry that your feelings keep you from understanding that. Also, continuing to call people immature because they do not believe in your agenda shows how childish and immature you really are.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So you imagine capitalism will disappear with the M4A?  How are you suggesting that the government's choice to subcontract a website was dictated by insurance companies?  Oh, "Romneycare", that's funny.  Nobody likes Romney, but everyone sees you trying to push this away from Obama.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a conspiracy theory.  It's an economic model.  You are even saying so in your second sentence.  Are _*you*_ a 2 party system.



to be honest, what i find more concerning, is that there is a real actual human being that things that any economic model will prioritize people over money.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'd have a stroke or two if I fought to defend a fake election and condemned generations of humanity to be cultivated as petri dish specimens.
> 
> For those in a rush to get their cankles twisted, this is an easy response to show that person A is not automatically responsible for person B's suicide; existentially by stroke, or otherwise.
> 
> ...


Trololololol. I’m amazed that someone can say so much while saying absolutely nothing at all. Defended a fake a election… Man, you’re needed under your bridge.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> you cant read slides? thats a shame anyway, 7, 8, and 9 should help you out chief, particularly the graph where the options say, and let me help because reading comprehension is hell of a drug,
> 
> *switched your vote to donald trump: 4%
> 
> ...


I clearly did but I have a life outside of telling an idiot that when ~80% says they wouldn't change their vote, it's probably not as much of a vote shifter as you think. Maybe stop talking down just for a few seconds before the stepladder falls right under you.

...16%? You're hinging on fucking 16% for this claim to count as "rigging"? If your drug is reading comprehension, you're missing out on the buzz of knowing how numbers work.

I'm not saying I do know but based on the trend of the states that have been done, there hasn't been significant reason to bother or assume there's groundbreaking fraud. It's what they call a "waste a time".

Iunno, but I wouldn't use the phrase "rigging an election" which has much heavier connotations than what happened. There are smarter people who I would trust over you any second of the day about it.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> but M4A does bypass the most capitalist part of our healthcare system: insurance company leeches.



No it doesn't.  At best, it either fortifies it or mitigates it and transfers the pressure to already existing agencies to be gamed.



Xzi said:


> Right, but there's no way to confirm we have cures which are being withheld from public knowledge. We _do_ have cures for certain diseases and ailments, after all, and why would we have any if the only motive among all healthcare workers was profit? Too many people would have to be involved in such a cover-up, thus there would be whistleblowers. That's the conspiracy theory part of it.



It has nothing to do with if cures exist or not.  We have cures for a myriad of reasons: patents expiring, inventors not making patents, and things becoming common sense, to name a few.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> to be honest, what i find more concerning, is that there is a real actual human being that things that any economic model will prioritize people over money.


If workers own the fruits of their own labor, why wouldn't they take care of themselves and their families?  Is there any good argument for why CEOs who take half the year off for vacation should be keeping the vast majority of that instead?  I'd say not without some serious mental gymnastics.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> I clearly did but I have a life outside of telling an idiot that when ~80% says they wouldn't change their vote, it's probably not as much of a vote shifter as you think. Maybe stop talking down just for a few seconds before the stepladder falls right under you.
> 
> ...16%? You're hinging on fucking 16% for this claim to count as "rigging"? If your drug is reading comprehension, you're missing out on the buzz of knowing how numbers work.
> 
> ...



thats fine, you dont have to trust me, but unless you are a maga extremeist, you have to trust your instutions, like the ones i pulled data from,


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Trololololol. I’m amazed that someone can say so much while saying absolutely nothing at all. Defended a fake a election… Man, you’re needed under your bridge.


You are failing to see that I am not "defending a fake election".  Lol, you said it.

I only intended to showed you that either side could make the same claim--who is at fault for strokes.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If workers own the fruits of their own labor, why wouldn't they take care of themselves and their families?  Is there any good argument for why CEOs who take half the year off for vacation should be keeping the vast majority of that instead?  I'd say not without some serious mental gymnastics.



no there isnt a good argument for it at all, that isnt the problem, the problem is that someone things by magically shifting an economic model that many other countries have tried that somehow this would no longer be a factor.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> to be honest, what i find more concerning, is that there is a real actual human being that things that any economic model will prioritize people over money.



Real communism could only work if the individuals participated electively.  It's not something an institution could do without being a complete contradiction.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are failing to see that I am not "defending a fake election".  Lol, you said it.
> 
> I only intended to showed you that either side could make the same claim--who is at fault for strokes.



you should read some of my posts.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Real communism could only work if the individuals participated electively.  It's not something an institution could do without being a complete contradiction.



well i think the good news is that it WOULD work, if elons brain control chip thing gets off the ground and humans can go from being you know, humans, to robots that are incapable of greed.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If workers own the fruits of their own labor, why wouldn't they take care of themselves and their families?


Thank you for admitting income tax is theft.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> No it doesn't. At best, it either fortifies it or mitigates it and transfers the pressure to already existing agencies to be gamed.


Again: there's already a well-established precedent for this system in every European nation with universal healthcare.  There will always be people who try to game the system (and get caught) whether it's a good one or not, so we might as well replace the shit one we have now.



lolcatzuru said:


> the problem is that someone things by magically shifting an economic model that many other countries have tried that somehow this would no longer be a factor.


You mean like the Scandinavian countries that currently rank above America in every meaningful metric?



SScorpio said:


> Thank you for admitting income tax is theft.


Oh boy if you're mad about income tax, just wait until you hear about wage theft and excess value skimming.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well i think the good news is that it WOULD work, if elons brain control chip thing gets off the ground and humans can go from being you know, humans, to robots that are incapable of greed.


But that would just make Elon the richest man in a psuedo-communist state.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are failing to see that I am not "defending a fake election".  Lol, you said it.
> 
> I only intended to showed you that either side could make the same claim--who is at fault for strokes.


One person had a stroke. The anxiety of the attack, along with the prolonged increased heart rate, and elevated blood pressure and increased adrenaline and cortisol levels could easily have brought about the stroke.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> thats fine, you dont have to trust me, but unless you are a maga extremeist, you have to trust your instutions, like the ones i pulled data from,


I mean you didn't, Media Research Center is a conservative analysist and watchdog. They think video games ties to real world violence and deny climate change as purely political. It's absolutely not one of the "institutions" you make it sound like.

They still never outright claim it's rigging or that it would shift the election, that is on you. So it's not at all like being a "MAGA extremist", because your conclusion isn't supported.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> But that would just make Elon the richest man in a psuedo-communist state.



well not really if everyone gets the same.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> I mean you didn't, Media Research Center is a conservative analysist and watchdog. They think video games ties to real world violence and deny climate change as purely political. It's absolutely not one of the "institutions" you make it sound like.



can you show me a democrat tenant that says that? because as far as i know you have to trust the data, the science, and the institutions, you like ultra maga you.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Again: there's already a well-established precedent for this system in every European nation with universal healthcare. There will be people who try to game the system (and get caught) whether it's a good one or not, so we might as well replace the shit one we have now.


If you want to uproot the US government and patch it with a EU model, be my guest.  It doesn't even seem like you are brave enough to admit that much.  If you are looking for a better life you have more chance of immigrating than applying enough Band-Aids to your broken system to _*appear *_like something else.

If the only reason you are here is to complain, then you are wasting your own time, and anyone else's who listens to you.

Provide a real solution.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well not really if everyone gets the same.


Are you suggesting that Elon would submit himself to the brain control chip, making the AI in charge the most powerful entity?


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Can you point to the slides as evidence? Because every single graph shows that people unaware of the various controversies would've still voted for Biden, usually around 80% (I checked like 2 graphs and just noticed "still voted" still tops on all of them, this is me being transparent). I'm not denying the FBI is shady and awful, but this still isn't rigging.


If 20% of those unaware people voted differently, Sponge-Brain Shits-Pants wouldn't be in office right now. Remember, he only received 10k-20k more ballots in the swing states after they paused counting in the middle of the night.


Tsukiru said:


> Fraud did happen, not enough to shift the election. It's why we're aware of fraud for both candidates.


You say this because you are not looking at all the evidence. Between 2,000 mules, Erich Speckin, Konnech's ties to the CCP, Facebook banning people for talking about the laptop, Google censoring in their search results among much more evidence. There's even a lawsuit against Dominion for unauthorized code pointing to an IP address in Canada.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> can you show me a democrat tenant that says that? because as far as i know you have to trust the data, the science, and the institutions, you like ultra maga you.


"As far as I know" you know your nonsensical assumptions about me and think you can throw your smug phrases of "trust the data, the science" as I just tell you you do not know what any of those fucking words mean. Adding "MAGA" to the fucking list.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Are you suggesting that Elon would submit himself to the brain control chip, making the AI in charge the most powerful entity?



no but communism suggest everyone should get the same cut, if he holds to that, then it wouldnt enrich him, and also i think he might already be under that influence based  on how he does things.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If the only reason you are here is to complain, then you are wasting your own time, and anyone else's who listens to you.


Ditto if the only reason you're here is to suggest any alternative to our current broken systems can only possibly make things worse.  Anybody actually living in America knows that's bullshit.  You want to defend the status quo because you benefit from it, but that's true for fewer and fewer people as time goes on.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> "As far as I know" you know your nonsensical assumptions about me and think you can throw your smug phrases of "trust the data, the science" as I just tell you you do not know what any of those fucking words mean. Adding "MAGA" to the fucking list.



what i know is i gave you data you dont believe and i gave you institutions you cant not believe lest you be a magaite, and you dont believe them, you are exactly the type of person who the FBI is collecting data on from facebook


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ditto if the only reason you're here is to suggest any alternative to our current broken systems can only possibly make things worse.  Anybody actually living in America knows that's bullshit.



well im fairly positive that anarchy would make things worse, but, also, every other model, and that comes from an american.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ditto if the only reason you're here is to suggest any alternative to our current broken systems can only possibly make things worse.  Anybody actually living in America knows that's bullshit.


What are you saying exactly?  Did I complain?


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Oh boy if you're mad about income tax, just wait until you hear about wage theft and excess value skimming.


Income tax is only the start, then there's the 12% employment tax your employer has to pay the government which suppresses your wage. Most people don't know about it, but if you are self employed, it's that 12% "self-employment tax" that's off the top.

Wage theft and excess value skimming are things you can control with a simple "fuck you I quit", while not paying taxes will involve in the government threatening violence and jail time against you.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> no but communism suggest everyone should get the same cut, if he holds to that, then it wouldnt enrich him, and also i think he might already be under that influence based  on how he does things.



I can't be as confident.  But I can't say you are wrong?


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> If 20% of those unaware people voted differently, Sponge-Brain Shits-Pants wouldn't be in office right now. Remember, he only received 10k-20k more ballots in the swing states after they paused counting in the middle of the night.
> 
> You say this because you are not looking at all the evidence. Between 2,000 mules, Erich Speckin, Konnech's ties to the CCP, Facebook banning people for talking about the laptop, Google censoring in their search results among much more evidence. There's even a lawsuit against Dominion for unauthorized code pointing to an IP address in Canada.


How many times does this have to be proven untrue before you give it a rest. It didn’t happen. The election wasn’t stolen. Trump was a terrible president and it cost him the election. End of discussion.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> You mean golfing with the Saudis, you know, the guys who funded 9/11? They DOJ won’t charge him until they can make sure the case is air tight. He has enough money and lawyers that he can get away with practically anything. If you can’t see the shit he gets away with on practically a daily basis, that’s a you problem.


And yet, he walks free without a care in the world. It's not like he's hiding anywhere.


vincentx77 said:


> I have a degree in Psychology and I actually understand how human behavior tends to work. That’s not emotional on my end. It’s clinical. Denying that there is more than a casual link between the suicides of those two officers and the events of Jan 6 is absurd. Those are facts. I’m sorry that your feelings keep you from understanding that. Also, continuing to call people immature because they do not believe in your agenda shows how childish and immature you really are.


You have a degree in psychology. What degree? A bachelors? Associates? Unless you were their doctor previous to their suicides, you have no hard evidence to back up your claim. And since you do not claim to be a licensed psychologist, I'm not gonna put much weight in your 20 credit hours listening to psychology lectures.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I can't be as confident.  But I can't say you are wrong?



i mean, knocking up one of his... god i wanna say one of his  higher ups because she had good genes?  thats like the definition of a weaboo man, i mean i can't blame him, she's p hot, but still. And his motivation for this is that he wants children all over the place i guess.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> How many times does this have to be proven untrue before you give it a rest. It didn’t happen. The election wasn’t stolen. Trump was a terrible president and it cost him the election. End of discussion.


The American Religion has split into two.. or four.. or eight.  I can't keep track.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> And yet, he walks free without a care in the world. It's not like he's hiding anywhere.
> 
> You have a degree in psychology. What degree? A bachelors? Associates? Unless you were their doctor previous to their suicides, you have no hard evidence to back up your claim. And since you do not claim to be a licensed psychologist, I'm not gonna put much weight in your 20 credit hours listening to psychology lectures.



i wouldnt put alot of stock into degrees these days, matt walsh interviewed someone with 4 phd's that anyone can be a woman, might as well use them as a bib now.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i mean, knocking up one of his... god i wanna say one of his higher ups because she had good genes? thats like the definition of a weaboo man, i mean i can't blame him, she's p hot, but still. And his motivation for this is that he wants children all over the place i guess.


Are you suggesting that Elon is going to knock up everyone with is brain chip?


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> How many times does this have to be proven untrue before you give it a rest. It didn’t happen. The election wasn’t stolen. Trump was a terrible president and it cost him the election. End of discussion.



when you say terrible? do you mean " i am delusional?"


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Are you suggesting that Elon is going to knock up everyone with is brain chip?



god i hope so.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> what i know is i gave you data you dont believe and i gave you institutions you cant not believe lest you be a magaite, and you dont believe them, you are exactly the type of person who the FBI is collecting data on from facebook


Now adding "believe" to the list. I never said the data was wrong, I just said it doesn't support your conclusion. I don't deny the FBI's actions or data. MGR doesn't count as an institution, where it usually is in reference to government institutions, not conservative nonprofits.

This is not the same case as a MAGA denying numbers from a government institution. These are not the same thing.

"you are exactly the type of person" the type of person they are collecting data from is from Facebook. So not me.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What are you saying exactly?  Did I complain?


This whole argument stemmed from your assertion that a "socialist" alternative to our current healthcare system would unequivocally make things worse.  You never successfully refuted my assertion that it _can't_ get worse than the possibility of one medical bill putting a person in debt for life.  Ergo, just about any alternative can only make things better, especially one with a well-established precedent of being better in European nations.



SScorpio said:


> Wage theft and excess value skimming are things you can control with a simple "fuck you I quit"


Lol if only.  Any and every employer in a capitalist system participates in these things to varying degrees.  You'll never get paid your true worth or the same amount as the value you generate, save perhaps a few self-employment opportunities where those involved are typically already well-off.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> And yet, he walks free without a care in the world. It's not like he's hiding anywhere.
> 
> You have a degree in psychology. What degree? A bachelors? Associates? Unless you were their doctor previous to their suicides, you have no hard evidence to back up your claim. And since you do not claim to be a licensed psychologist, I'm not gonna put much weight in your 20 credit hours listening to psychology lectures.


Because I branched off from psychology into neurophysiology? Sure kid. Whatever makes you feel better.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Now adding "believe" to the list. I never said the data was wrong, I just said it doesn't support your conclusion. I don't deny the FBI's actions or data. MGR doesn't count as an institution, where it usually is in reference to government institutions, not conservative nonprofits.
> 
> This is not the same case as a MAGA denying numbers from a government institution. These are not the same thing.
> 
> "you are exactly the type of person" the type of person they are collecting data from is from Facebook. So not me.



but... it does. Im not trying to be rude like you but.. do you know how to read? genuinely? because i gave you the resulting numbers, literally HANDED them to you, and you say that it doesnt support my conclusion.... either you are so far into denial that nothing i say will change it, or basic comprehension is skill you dont have to work on.  Im gonna let them know we have a little maga over here not trusting the science!


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i wouldnt put alot of stock into degrees these days, matt walsh interviewed someone with 4 phd's that anyone can be a woman, might as well use them as a bib now.


"Interviewed" as in invited on false premise and asked the stupidest, bad faith questions because Walsh doesn't care about the question and just wants to present "look at how universities are insane!" with the most obvious editing and framing known too man.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> "Interviewed" as in invited on false premise and asked the stupidest, bad faith questions because Walsh doesn't care about the question and just wants to present "look at how universities are insane!" with the most obvious editing and framing known too man.



this is the second time youve skirted the overall point for delusional nonsense.  You can say he came there because he's a vamprie to suck their blood, it doesnt matter, the point is, a person said anyone can be a woman, and has 4 phd's, that should speak for itself, and if it doesnt, that makes you even more of an extremist!


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This whole argument stemmed from your assertion that a "socialist" alternative to our current healthcare would unequivocally make things worse. You never successfully refuted my assertion that it _can't_ get worse than the possibility of one medical bill putting a person in debt for life. Ergo, just about any alternative can only make things better, especially one with a well-established precedent of being better in European nations.



It's not an "alternative" if you are proposing to add another layer to an already broken system.  I already pointed out how your "option" isn't a real option.  It can get worse.   Saying, "why not, it can't get worse" is probably the biggest indication that it would.  You chose to ignore how.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> when you say terrible? do you mean " i am delusional?"


He was easily the worst President since Nixon, and I’d dare say even Nixon was better. So yeah. I’d say you’re probably delusional.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> He was easily the worst President since Nixon, and I’d dare say even Nixon was better. So yeah. I’d say you’re probably delusional.



 i was speaking on your behalf but juhhhhh buhhhhaaa ( his pronunciation) would like to shake the hand of the air near you.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> but... it does. Im not trying to be rude like you but.. do you know how to read? genuinely? because i gave you the resulting numbers, literally HANDED them to you, and you say that it doesnt support my conclusion.... either you are so far into denial that nothing i say will change it, or basic comprehension is skill you dont have to work on.  Im gonna let them know we have a little maga over here not trusting the science!


"I'm not trying to be rude" Liar. The most obvious lie after calling Trump a good president. You are so obviously smug and an asshole you are only deluding yourself with this sentence. It's not a defense for what you say right after either. You have no right to talk about basic comprehension when every goddamn message you have is filled to the brim with typos and how often you do not know how words work.


lolcatzuru said:


> this is the second time youve skirted the overall point for delusional nonsense.  You can say he came there because he's a vamprie to suck their blood, it doesnt matter, the point is, a person said anyone can be a woman, and has 4 phd's, that should speak for itself, and if it doesnt, that makes you even more of an extremist!


Adding delusional and extremist to the list. It doesn't, because I don't view PHDs as a show of intelligence. Notice how you lack specifying what those PHDs are. This means nothing. I'm just saying Walsh didn't do any real interviews. Stop imagining things I never said, it would be the first step for you being a good and bearable human being. For the time being, you are a waste of time and space and I hope you look in a mirror sooner than later.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> this is the second time youve skirted the overall point for delusional nonsense.  You can say he came there because he's a vamprie to suck their blood, it doesnt matter, the point is, a person said anyone can be a woman, and has 4 phd's, that should speak for itself, and if it doesnt, that makes you even more of an extremist!


Why the fuck do you care if trans women have the right to be called women? Does this negatively affect your life in any way? Is it any of your business? If not, then let it the fuck go. I’ll never understand what conservatives care so much about what’s going on in someone else’s pants.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> He was easily the worst President since Nixon, and I’d dare say even Nixon was better. So yeah. I’d say you’re probably delusional.


What a waste of a neurophysiology degree.

You could have just left it alone.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not an "alternative" if you are proposing to add another layer to an already broken system.


It is an alternative if everyone who chooses to can then remove themselves from the current system.  You prefer to give people no alternative but to pay out to blood-sucking insurance middlemen for life.  If said insurance companies aren't paying you to take this position, then that just makes you a useful idiot.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Why the fuck do you care if trans women have the right to be called women? Does this negatively affect your life in any way? Is it any of your business? If not, then let it the fuck go. I’ll never understand what conservatives care so much about what’s going on in someone else’s pants.



when did i ever say that i care? idgaf either way, nor did i say it negatively impacts me either, sounds like you have alot of anger in you, you should see someone about that, my entire point was, PHD"s dont mean much when someone who has 4 of them is so deep into fantasy that they say something that isnt true, as scholar man im sure you know what i mean... unless you agree with them?


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> i was speaking on your behalf but juhhhhh buhhhhaaa ( his pronunciation) would like to shake the hand of the air near you.


It’s called ‘turning your idiotic comment back around on you’. I’m sorry you missed the subtly.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> when did i ever say that i care? idgaf either way, nor did i say it negatively impacts me either, sounds like you have alot of anger in you, you should see someone about that, my entire point was, PHD"s dont mean much when someone who has 4 of them is so deep into fantasy that they say something that isnt true, as scholar man im sure you know what i mean... unless you agree with them?


And still you missed the point


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What a waste of a neurophysiology degree.
> 
> You could have just left it alone.



well considering i didnt even know that was a field, im gonna say its a waste either way, but yea it seems like this guy is pretty manic, maybe even schizophrenic based on how he just starts talking about things i never said, mustve been those anti trump voices.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> It’s called ‘turning your idiotic comment back around on you’. I’m sorry you missed the subtly.



you didnt though? did you speak with him? you and him would get alone, you are both in the same mental state.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> And still you missed the point



how did i miss the point if i brought it the fuck up, man you are bad at this.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Why the fuck do you care if trans women have the right to be called women? Does this negatively affect your life in any way? Is it any of your business? If not, then let it the fuck go. I’ll never understand what conservatives care so much about what’s going on in someone else’s pants.


They also only ever consider the opinion's of cis women who agree with them and conveniently ignore there are plenty who are happy and accepting of their trans peers. Like who is this hurting? Why do we have define concretely what a "woman" is? Who fucking cares?


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It is an alternative if everyone who chooses to can then remove themselves from the current system.



I have dreams and visions of a great future too.  Also, you missed the point that you'd be subjecting yourself to a socialist program on-top of a capitalistic model.  Not an improvement.  The recipe is pretty clear there.

Okay... I'll fill you in.  It results in taking as much money, as possible, from everyone.



Xzi said:


> You prefer to give people no alternative but to pay out to blood-sucking insurance middlemen for life.



That's not true.  I'm not Obama.  I'm not demanding everyone pay health insurance.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> How many times does this have to be proven untrue before you give it a rest. It didn’t happen. The election wasn’t stolen. Trump was a terrible president and it cost him the election. End of discussion.


Holy shit, a smt 3 fan. never would of though of finding one on the pol area


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> well considering i didnt even know that was a field, im gonna say its a waste either way, but yea it seems like this guy is pretty manic, maybe even schizophrenic based on how he just starts talking about things i never said, mustve been those anti trump voices.


You didn’t know studying and researching the brain and nervous system was a field?  SMH


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Holy shit, a smt 3 fan. never would of though of finding one on the pol area


I mean didn't FOX once put out a headline like "they want to dethrone God"? Doesn't get more Megami Tensei than that.


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Holy shit, a smt 3 fan. never would of though of finding one on the pol area


We are Legion (with a dash of Lucifer).


----------



## vincentx77 (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> I mean didn't FOX once put out a headline like "they want to dethrone God"? Doesn't get more Megami Tensei than that.


Damn. I missed that one.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Damn. I missed that one.


Not headline, but funny regardless. Oh my god this is so tiny, I was grabbing it from my phone my B.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> You didn’t know studying and researching the brain and nervous system was a field?  SMH



yea im not a man of culture, i still only think women can be women.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> yea im not a man of culture, i still only think women can be women.


We get it, you're a transphobic weirdo who can't read. Get new material, you're a dime a dozen.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 22, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> *when did i ever say that i care? idgaf either way*, nor did i say it negatively impacts me either, sounds like you have alot of anger in you, you should see someone about that, my entire point was, PHD"s dont mean much when someone who has 4 of them is so deep into fantasy that they say something that isnt true, as scholar man im sure you know what i mean... unless you agree with them?





lolcatzuru said:


> yea im not a man of culture, i still only think women can be women.


so you lied then?  got it.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I have dreams and visions of a great future too. Also, you missed the point that you'd be subjecting yourself to a socialist program on-top of a capitalistic model. Not an improvement. The recipe is pretty clear there.
> 
> Okay... I'll fill you in. It results in taking as much money, as possible, from everyone.


We have to pay taxes no matter what.  There's no reason we should be paying for healthcare insurance as well when it could just come out of taxes instead.  I'm not sure how I can dumb it down for you any more than that.



tabzer said:


> That's not true. I'm not Obama. I'm not demanding everyone pay health insurance.


Useful idiot it is then, as you refuse to consider any alternatives to Obamacare.  Puts you on the same page as Joe Biden, funny enough.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Lol if only.  Any and every employer in a capitalist system participates in these things to varying degrees.  You'll never get paid your true worth or the same amount as the value you generate, save perhaps a few self-employment opportunities where those involved are typically already well-off.


What is your true worth? How much value do you bring to your company?

Many people coming out of college have this idea in their heads they should immediately be getting paid the wage of a 3rd tier senior person with 20 years of experience. But once you have real experience you can start making demands, and while you have to fight and won't always get what you want. With enough effort you can get a balance of between your time and effort.

I could get an each 30% wage increase by going through hell and commuting over an hour and a half one way. Instead I settled for a job that's just under 2x the average household income for my area, in a great new house, awesome top tier schools, with European level time off, low stress and excellent work life balance for a 8 mile commute a few days a week.

No one will just give you everything in life. You have to fight for it.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Because I branched off from psychology into neurophysiology? Sure kid. Whatever makes you feel better.


Were you their doctor before their suicides? Did you personally examine them? If not, then you have zero evidence why they committed suicide. Your narrative keeps breaking down. And Brian Sicknick died from a stroke from natural causes. That is the conclusion of the medical examiner, the guy who actually examined his body. Not some internet nobody bragging about credentials.

So back to the original point, the only people who died that day were Trump supporters, two were killed by Capitol police, one lady was beaten to death with a baton outside of the tunnel. Not a single police officer died that day or at the hands of any Trump supporter. Those are facts, not narrative. Sorry if it offends your sensibilities.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> We have to pay taxes no matter what.  There's no reason we should be paying for healthcare insurance as well when it could just come out of taxes instead.  I'm not sure how I can dumb it down for you any more than that.


People in utopias like Canada or the UK with their public healthcare can and still do pay for their own private insurance to get better benefits. The UK was having staffing issues years before the US due to low pay and long hours.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> We have to pay taxes no matter what. There's no reason we should be paying for healthcare insurance as well when it could just come out of taxes instead. I'm not sure how I can dumb it down for you any more than that.



No you don't.  You choose to pay taxes because "everyone else is compliant".  Whether it comes out of your taxes or not doesn't negate the cost.  At least pre-Obama, you had more of an option not to.



Xzi said:


> Useful idiot it is then, as you refuse to consider any alternatives to Obamacare. Puts you on the same page as Joe Biden, funny enough.



No.  I don't buy it.  I also didn't propose it.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> With enough effort you can get a balance of between your time and effort.


That's the old boomer mentality, and at one point (before the 80s) it very well may have been true.  Now we've got retirees working at McDonald's who will definitely tell you otherwise, and the vast majority of Americans no longer believe that hard work will pay off in the long run (spoiler: it doesn't).  Unionization can help, as well as frequently leveraging one job into a better one, but profiteering on necessities like food and shelter is still out of control.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

14 posts in and we still haven't heard an answer on if the far right in this thread thinks the election was stolen or not. Little weird.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That's the old boomer mentality, and at one point (before the 80s) it very well may have been true.  Now we've got retirees working at McDonald's who will definitely tell you otherwise, and the vast majority of Americans no longer believe that hard work will pay off in the long run (spoiler: it doesn't).  Unionization can help, as well as frequently leveraging one job into a better one, but profiteering on necessities like food and shelter is still out of control.


Retirees who didn't save up for retirement? Criminals kicked out of the justice systems as they would now require expensive medical treatments?

As for complaining about boomer mentality, maybe young people should pay attention. I'm a millennial and the advice has served me well. I studied and taught myself valuable skills, and then worked as I attended college to get a piece of paper that says I know what I already claimed I knew and graduated without any debt. All while surviving three separate large market down turns, in 2001, 2003, and 2008 which lead to periods of massive layoffs, and some long periods of unemployment for me.

We'll see how bad this recession is, but I have a self funded safety net along with contingency plans.

The last two years have been a worker's market due to labor shortages. Anyone that is unhappy with their situation who didn't takes advantage of the job market to improve their situation is either a fool or just extremely lazy.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> 14 posts in and we still haven't heard an answer on if the far right in this thread thinks the election was stolen or not. Little weird.


No one can say for sure without evidence. But FOIA requests have just revealed that Bill Barr did not have the DOJ investigate any fraud claims contrary to his promises. So I guess just like the court cases there's no standing before the election as nothing happened, or after the election, as it's too late to do anything about it.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> No one can't say for sure without evidence. But FOIA requests have just revealed that Bill Barr did not have the DOJ investigate any fraud claims contrary to his promises. So I guess just like the court cases there's no standing before the election as nothing happened, or after the election as it's too late to do anything about it.


protip: if every court case about election fraud fails, then the election wasn't stolen


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

vincentx77 said:


> Belittling trans people and their struggles doesn’t do anything except make you look like an ass. It’s not helpful, and it’s uncalled for. And calling someone a weirdo for expressing their identity is bullying. If you’re over the age of 12, you should flat out know better.


Seems to me the left are the ones who are transphobic. Instead of helping these people seek mental help, the only solution offered is chemical castration and irreversible surgery and body mutilation followed by additional surgeries, a lifetime of medications, regret and oftentimes, suicide. At least the doctors are making bank destroying lives.

I know you don't believe me, but look up stories from de-transitioners. The left doesn't care about them because they go against the narrative.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> No one can't say for sure without evidence. But FOIA requests have just revealed that Bill Barr did not have the DOJ investigate any fraud claims contrary to his promises. So I guess just like the court cases there's no standing before the election as nothing happened, or after the election as it's too late to do anything about it.


That's because there isn't any evidance. There was no mass election fraud and the election wasn't stolen.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Sep 22, 2022)

mituzora said:


> so you lied then?  got it.



nope i never lie, thats the lefts policy not mine, i dont care that tehy think that, im not gonna actively protest it, i just believe, personally, that only women can be women, thats not caring.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That's because there isn't any evidance. There was no mass election fraud and the election wasn't stolen.


It's kind of difficult to ascertain if there is any evidence without a proper investigation. If all 50 states have nothing to hide, then this shouldn't be a problem. I do find it funny that you are on Bill Barr's side. It wasn't that long ago the left was calling him Trump's personal attorney. It's almost as funny as the left becoming big Dick Cheney fans during the primaries.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Seems to me the left are the ones who are transphobic. Instead of helping these people seek mental help, the only solution offered is chemical castration and irreversible surgery and body mutilation followed by additional surgeries, a lifetime of medications, regret and oftentimes, suicide. At least the doctors are making bank destroying lives.
> 
> I know you don't believe me, but look up stories from de-transitioners. The left doesn't care about them because they go against the narrative.


Do you have any studies that you source your beliefs from or is it just your ass


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> It's kind of difficult to ascertain if there is any evidence without a proper investigation. If all 50 states have nothing to hide, then this shouldn't be a problem. I do find it funny that you are on Bill Barr's side. It wasn't that long ago the left was calling him Trump's personal attorney. It's almost as funny as the left becoming big Dick Cheney fans during the primaries.


Do you know what would be more difficult? Covering up a scandal so large that it overthrew an election. There have been multiple investigations and nothing substantial was found. There were Trump supporters found committing voter fraud, so that's something. I really don't care about whatever nonsense you are on about, in reality, the election wasn't stolen, there's been plenty of investigations to prove every claim to be false, and Trump lost. I am sorry reality doesn't line up with the fictional world Trump cultists live in.


*modsnip*


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

It's not like the politicians fully believe in the big lie either. They cheated! We caught them and nothing has changed! So... We still run for office and do nothing really differently? Okay well, every time you lose you can just pin it on fraud but that sounds like an excuse for losing... Oh.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 22, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> It's not like the politicians fully believe in the big lie either. They cheated! We caught them and nothing has changed! So... We still run for office and do nothing really differently? Okay well, every time you lose you can just pin it on fraud but that sounds like an excuse for losing... Oh.


You can tell that the people on the right put literally zero fucking thought into any opinions they hold when consistently, every single time someone on the right loses an election, it's never because they weren't popular enough to win, it's ONLY because "the illegals" or "fraudsters" voted or some other nonsense. And then when they do win they start massive voter suppression campaigns, like the one in North Carolina that had to be shot down by the Supreme Court because it targeted black voters with, to quote the judge, "surgical precision."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/voter-id-laws-supreme-court-north-carolina.html


----------



## SG854 (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Seems to me the left are the ones who are transphobic. Instead of helping these people seek mental help, the only solution offered is chemical castration and irreversible surgery and body mutilation followed by additional surgeries, a lifetime of medications, regret and oftentimes, suicide. At least the doctors are making bank destroying lives.
> 
> I know you don't believe me, but look up stories from de-transitioners. The left doesn't care about them because they go against the narrative.


I support freedom of choice. If someone wants to douse themselves in kerosene and light themselves on fire they have my full support.

I Blastoise will be there to put the fire out.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Seems to me the left are the ones who are transphobic. Instead of helping these people seek mental help, the only solution offered is chemical castration and irreversible surgery and body mutilation followed by additional surgeries, a lifetime of medications, regret and oftentimes, suicide. At least the doctors are making bank destroying lives.
> 
> I know you don't believe me, but look up stories from de-transitioners. The left doesn't care about them because they go against the narrative.


I've actually helped people de-transition and helped them get the resources they needed to do so. There's a wide variety of reasons why people de-transition but the smallest fraction of them end up being those who weren't trans or regretted their choices. That being said, people who de-transaction are an extremely small fraction compared to the rest of the trans community. Of course, you are deliberately trying to scare people and that's shitty of you. You don't care about people's struggles, you only care to try and weaponize them to create a narrative. You don't care about the reasons behind why people transition, you want to use them in a shallow attempt to scare people. Honestly, you are kind of a piece of shit who is just using the same scare tactics that were used against the gay community.


----------



## City (Sep 22, 2022)

Remember when your president tried to fuel up the witch hunt of a kid by purposedly stating false information? Oh, that doesn't count for some reason? I'm sorry, it's hard to take these threads seriously when blatant double standards are in order.


----------



## Tsukiru (Sep 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You can tell that the people on the right put literally zero fucking thought into any opinions they hold when consistently, every single time someone on the right loses an election, it's never because they weren't popular enough to win, it's ONLY because "the illegals" or "fraudsters" voted or some other nonsense. And then when they do win they start massive voter suppression campaigns, like the one in North Carolina that had to be shot down by the Supreme Court because it targeted black voters with, to quote the judge, "surgical precision."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/voter-id-laws-supreme-court-north-carolina.html


Also just a lack awareness around them. Wow, conveniently Trump kept talking about mail in voting being bad right before the election and pinning fraud on that. That has to be what happened, ignoring the reasonable circumstances of 2020 where there would be more mail in votes or just that plenty of Republicans, including the man himself, have used that method and there are a variety of protective measures. How very convenient.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Also just a lack awareness around them. Wow, conveniently Trump kept talking about mail in voting being bad right before the election and pinning fraud on that. That has to be what happened, ignoring the reasonable circumstances of 2020 where there would be more mail in votes or just that plenty of Republicans, including the man himself, have used that method and there are a variety of protective measures. How very convenient.


Yep. Any time the right says it's about preventing voter fraud, they are either lying to you or they are repeating a lie someone said to them.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Tsukiru said:


> Most people are accepting and do not mind trans people, trans people and questions of gender identity are not new, the only people who seem to call trans people weird have the trend of latching on to stupid old ideas with the worst justifications known to man. And consistently very little actual concern for other people.



Hi.  I just noticed that you had edited your post, 10 minutes after I responded, to provide some extra substance.

You've got to figure out what this "weird" means to you if you are going to casually call people weird for having a common response and a predictable point of view, but clutch pearls when it is said about your post-modern terms of identity.  This has nothing to do with "acceptance" or "not minding" as you are actively working against both.



Tsukiru said:


> It isn't weird to wish and try to be closer to who you want to be and just living their best life like everyone else.



Trying to be closer to who you want to be just a poetic way of rejecting yourself as you are.  You also act like that's what I am referring to as weird.  I wasn't--which was obvious to you, I know.  It might be weird.



Tsukiru said:


> It is weird when a bunch of people fear monger, otherize, and make laws forbidding just talking about their existence. Yes multiple things can be weird, but being trans is definitely not one of them. Get over yourself.



You say it's weird, but it's been happening since the dawn of man.  You are being dramatic and want to be more important.  Get over yourself.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Verbosity to just say "no u" isn't very interesting. If you wanna larp as an intellectual you'll have to put more effort than that.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Verbosity to just say "no u" isn't very interesting. If you wanna larp as an intellectual you'll have to put more effort than that.



I agree that there are more words than necessary to deliver the point, but that somehow still misses you, as the messages are closer to "if you can't take it, then don't give it" and "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

If you didn't find what I said to be interesting, it is because you aren't interested, which makes your post more of an ironic self-projection.

You'll get better at it if you walk the talk.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I agree that there are more words than necessary to deliver the point, but that somehow still misses you, as the messages are closer to "if you can't take it, then don't give it" and "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
> 
> If you didn't find what I said to be interesting, it is because you aren't interested, which makes it more of a ironic self-projection on your part.


No one is buying the act. You can quit pretending you're as cool and smart as you think you are. The only actual point to your wall of text is that you think hostility to people for the way they were born is something other than unhinged weirdo shit, and if we wanna talk about projection, I think you've made a perfect example.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> No one is buying the act. You can quit pretending you're as cool and smart as you think you are. The only actual point to your wall of text is that you think hostility to people for the way they were born is something other than unhinged weirdo shit, and if we wanna talk about projection, I think you've made a perfect example.



How someone socially constructs their identity isn't the way they are born, and I am not advocating hostility towards it.  If you want to deny history, that social norms exist, and that people have predictable social behavior, it might help you cope, but you are going to keep running into "unhinged weirdo shit" as you aggressively push people to "be accepting".  I'm going to think "unhinged weirdo shit" every time I see you now.  Thanks for that.


----------



## Jayro (Sep 23, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Alright so when is Hunter's laptop and crack addiction going to be investigated? I've seen people doing hard jail time for mere grams of weed, but the elites can do crack and progressives will defend them to death.
> 
> Fuck off with your political prosecution, you're turning the greatest country on earth into a banana republic. Either you investigate them all, or you don't investigate neither of them.


Nobody gives 2 shits about druggies when there's more important shit to take care of. Like Trump's insurrection, fraud, and rape cases. Otherwise we'd have gone after Don Jr for his coke addiction. Priorities, my guy.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Nobody gives 2 shits about druggies when there's more important shit to take care of. Like Trump's insurrection, fraud, and rape cases. Otherwise we'd have gone after Don Jr for his coke addiction. Priorities, my guy.


The only reason anyone is pretending they're mad about the Biden shit is that they don't want you talking about the documents Trump stole, the family members he appointed on things without any qualification, and the constant money he was talking not to mention his shitty cult was as well. It's literally a deflection talking point, and the only people who think it's an actual issue worth caring about are stupid, plain as that.


----------



## Acid_Snake (Sep 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, where were you born?


A socialist paradise in the middle of the Caribbean that is extremely cheap and easy to travel to but somehow hypocrits like @Xzi and @LainaGabranth never seem to live there, they praise socialism from the comfort of a capitalist democracy.

Now go ahead and keep responding to my comments by laughing (at a political refugee mind you, you fucking fascist), that's how clowns react to serious commentary anyways and I don't expect any less from you pieces of totalitarian garbage.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Do you know what would be more difficult? Covering up a scandal so large that it overthrew an election. There have been multiple investigations and nothing substantial was found. There were Trump supporters found committing voter fraud, so that's something. I really don't care about whatever nonsense you are on about, in reality, the election wasn't stolen, there's been plenty of investigations to prove every claim to be false, and Trump lost. I am sorry reality doesn't line up with the fictional world Trump cultists live in.
> 
> 
> *modsnip*


The fact that you don’t care is the reason why you will continue to react to the news instead of understanding the news. I gave you plenty to start digging, but you lack the curiosity to research because you fear finding out the truth.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 23, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I support freedom of choice. If someone wants to douse themselves in kerosene and light themselves on fire they have my full support.
> 
> I Blastoise will be there to put the fire out.


Thanks for admitting that you would stand idly by and not try to help your fellow humans and for proving that the left’s empathy is completely fake.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Sep 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I've actually helped people de-transition and helped them get the resources they needed to do so. There's a wide variety of reasons why people de-transition but the smallest fraction of them end up being those who weren't trans or regretted their choices. That being said, people who de-transaction are an extremely small fraction compared to the rest of the trans community. Of course, you are deliberately trying to scare people and that's shitty of you. You don't care about people's struggles, you only care to try and weaponize them to create a narrative. You don't care about the reasons behind why people transition, you want to use them in a shallow attempt to scare people. Honestly, you are kind of a piece of shit who is just using the same scare tactics that were used against the gay community.


But if it saves just one life, right. The left is perfectly fine in creating policy based on extremely small fractions so this should be no different. 

The left are the ones who don’t care why people want to transition because your only answer is to immediately chemically castrate them and wheel them into the operating room. The left never talks about people getting psychological help because the left doesn’t care. This is why the left wants to keep it secret from parents, so they won’t be able to intervene until it is too late. Just like the left hates gays in the 80’s by letting them die from AIDS instead of telling them the truth to help prevent the spread.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Sep 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> . Just like the left hates gays in the 80’s by letting them die from AIDS instead of telling them the truth to help prevent the spread.


Nah, that was Reagan, who deserves to burn in hell.


----------



## SG854 (Sep 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Thanks for admitting that you would stand idly by and not try to help your fellow humans and for proving that the left’s empathy is completely fake.



Who said I was left?


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 23, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Who said I was left?


You said something they don't like so they call you left. I thought you were a ambidextrous blastiose if you ask me.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 23, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> A socialist paradise in the middle of the Caribbean that is extremely cheap and easy to travel to but somehow hypocrits like @Xzi and @LainaGabranth never seem to live there, they praise socialism from the comfort of a capitalist democracy.
> 
> Now go ahead and keep responding to my comments by laughing (at a political refugee mind you, you fucking fascist), that's how clowns react to serious commentary anyways and I don't expect any less from you pieces of totalitarian garbage.


Here’s the thing about the Caribbeans, they are terrible for the same why highway towns are terrible. Their entire infrastructure is designed around people visiting them and not for the people living there. The Caribbeans suck because the US uses the islands for tourism. Any attempt to make them better is stopped if it doesn’t benefit the tourism industry. You can see similar effects on other countries the US gutted for their own means.


----------



## SG854 (Sep 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> But if it saves just one life, right. The left is perfectly fine in creating policy based on extremely small fractions so this should be no different.
> 
> The left are the ones who don’t care why people want to transition because your only answer is to immediately chemically castrate them and wheel them into the operating room. The left never talks about people getting psychological help because the left doesn’t care. This is why the left wants to keep it secret from parents, so they won’t be able to intervene until it is too late. Just like the left hates gays in the 80’s by letting them die from AIDS instead of telling them the truth to help prevent the spread.


You have a twisted way of seeing what hate actually is. 

You try to come off as not hating gays with your supposed good intentions of what should've been done to prevent aids with gays. But it just seems like a cover up of your true intentions.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 23, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> But if it saves just one life, right. The left is perfectly fine in creating policy based on extremely small fractions so this should be no different.
> 
> The left are the ones who don’t care why people want to transition because your only answer is to immediately chemically castrate them and wheel them into the operating room. The left never talks about people getting psychological help because the left doesn’t care. This is why the left wants to keep it secret from parents, so they won’t be able to intervene until it is too late. Just like the left hates gays in the 80’s by letting them die from AIDS instead of telling them the truth to help prevent the spread.


What are you on about? Reagan was the reason why the AIDS epidemic got to the point where it did. Blaming all of the world’s wrongs on the Left doesn’t change reality. There is no perfect system but I am pretty sure “the Left” didn’t set up a system where insurance companies can deny payments to mental health services. Since those insurance companies are privately run, that seems pretty not Left to me. It seems more like you just want to move every problem to some imaginary enemy of “The Left.”


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

If the left was everything TraitorPat claims it to be, Bernie Sanders would've been running on Donald Trump's platform.  Dude does nothing but gaslight.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If the left was everything TraitorPat claims it to be, Bernie Sanders would've been running on Donald Trump's platform.  Dude does nothing but gaslight.



Tried to tbh.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Tried to tbh.


Clarify.  It's more like Trump took some of Bernie's populist ideas for his 2016 run, but obviously never intended to follow through on any of them.  Ultimately all Trump ran on in both elections was hatred of the "other."


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> What are you on about? Reagan was the reason why the AIDS epidemic got to the point where it did. Blaming all of the world’s wrongs on the Left doesn’t change reality. There is no perfect system but I am pretty sure “the Left” didn’t set up a system where insurance companies can deny payments to mental health services. Since those insurance companies are privately run, that seems pretty not Left to me. It seems more like you just want to move every problem to some imaginary enemy of “The Left.”


It was Regan? I seem to remember a little troll who was the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. He flopped on the AIDs epidemic, and even massively profited pushing a drug which ended up causing more harm than good. Even going so far to push it over other treatments. There's a movie about it called Dallas Buyers Club.

Thankfully we learned from that and something like it will never happen again. What was that director's name again... oh Anthony Fauci. Wait, didn't he also push remdesivir for COVID which he massively profited from but ended up causing major organ damage and failure. Well shit, I guess we didn't learn.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> A socialist paradise in the middle of the Caribbean that is extremely cheap and easy to travel to but somehow hypocrits like @Xzi and @LainaGabranth never seem to live there, they praise socialism from the comfort of a capitalist democracy.
> 
> Now go ahead and keep responding to my comments by laughing (at a political refugee mind you, you fucking fascist), that's how clowns react to serious commentary anyways and I don't expect any less from you pieces of totalitarian garbage.


Do you have any real objections or are you just sticking with emotional outbursts


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Do you have any real objections or are you just sticking with emotional outbursts


Were allowed to do that now?


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Do you have any real objections or are you just sticking with emotional outbursts


If you don’t mind me asking, where were you born?


----------



## Taleweaver (Sep 23, 2022)

Edit : nevermind (jeez... 15 pages in three days about a stupid trivia?)


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Were allowed to do that now?


Hasn't stopped the right it would seem. I'm just curious why people in this thread are so bothered by democracy when the outcomes don't favor them.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Hasn't stopped the right it would seem. I'm just curious why people in this thread are so bothered by democracy when the outcomes don't favor them.


Hmmm, rn im looking at the GTA kid getting arrested, kinda instereating ngl


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Hasn't stopped the right it would seem. I'm just curious why people in this thread are so bothered by democracy when the outcomes don't favor them.



Who is "the right" compared to @LainaGabranth's imaginary persona?  Oh, everyone.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Hmmm, rn im looking at the GTA kid getting arrested, kinda instereating ngl


Yeah it's pretty funny. I really hope it's a fluke and he was just lying for attention, because otherwise his life is about to get fucked up real quickly.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Yeah it's pretty funny. I really hope it's a fluke and he was just lying for attention, because otherwise his life is about to get fucked up real quickly.


Well i found an archive of when the page was still up so yea..... its real


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Who is "the right" compared to @LainaGabranth's imaginary persona?  Oh, everyone.


It's not that abstract.  Trump supporters, they're the right.  Far-right, to be precise.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Well i found an archive of when the page was still up so yea..... its real


lmao that kid is so fucked dude


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's not that abstract.  Trump supporters, they're the right.  Far-right, to be precise.


Yet another non-objection from Tabzer. Wish the people who get so mad at my posts were able to articulate why (beyond me being a minority) lmfao


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's not that abstract.  Trump supporters, they're the right.  Far-right, to be precise.


Someone was just arguing that Biden is Right, and that "the left" have no real representation.  Where do you stand on that?



LainaGabranth said:


> Yet another non-objection from Tabzer. Wish the people who get so mad at my posts were able to articulate why (beyond me being a minority) lmfao



So mad, lmao.  What makes you a minority?


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Someone was just arguing that Biden is Right, and that "the left" have no real representation.  Where do you stand on that?


Biden is center-right, along with the Democratic party establishment.  It's a correct assertion that the left has no real representation, at least on the national level.  Local chapters of the DSA is the best we have.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Biden is center-right, along with the Democratic party establishment.  It's a correct assertion that the left has no real representation, at least on the national level.  Local chapters of the DSA is the best we have.



So America is Right, and the Left are the minority?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Biden is center-right, along with the Democratic party establishment.  It's a correct assertion that the left has no real representation, at least on the national level.  Local chapters of the DSA is the best we have.


To add to this, both parties in the US are some form of right, with the republicans being far right and going even further as time goes on. That said however, lack of party representation does not mean that ideas are unpopular, it means that the two party system doesn't work.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> To add to this, both parties in the US are some form of right, with the republicans being far right and going even further as time goes on. That said however, lack of party representation does not mean that ideas are unpopular, it means that the two party system doesn't work.



Everyone knows that.  But you still vote for it.  Is that what makes you the minority here?


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So America is Right, and the left are the minority?


The overton window in the US has shifted pretty far to the right, yes.  The vast majority of citizens used to support strong social programs and social safety nets, as well as a high tax rate on the wealthy.  Back when growth of the middle class was at its peak.


----------



## Lumstar (Sep 23, 2022)

Pressure to tilt to the right is inevitable, the 1% aren't going to give up their wealth.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> Pressure to tilt to the right is inevitable, the 1% aren't going to give up their wealth.


Correct, which is why the tragedy is that we allowed billionaires to come into existence in the first place, when being a multimillionaire is already more than enough to live a comfortable life and provide for a very large family.  The only reason to hoard billions of dollars like a dragon on a pile of gold is to gain influence over the system, and thus gain influence over people completely unrelated to you.  So it is that we drift ever closer to authoritarian oligarchy with each passing day.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Correct, which is why the tragedy is that we allowed billionaires to come into existence in the first place, when being a multimillionaire is already more than enough to live a comfortable life and provide for a very large family.  The only reason to hoard billions of dollars like a dragon on a pile of gold is to gain influence over the system, and thus gain influence over people completely unrelated to you.



But if the system is broken, and ruled by billionaires, someone might try to fight them by becoming a billionaire themselves?

One-upping each other is consistent in our nature.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Correct, which is why the tragedy is that we allowed billionaires to come into existence in the first place, when being a multimillionaire is already more than enough to live a comfortable life and provide for a very large family.  The only reason to hoard billions of dollars like a dragon on a pile of gold is to gain influence over the system, and thus gain influence over people completely unrelated to you.  So it is that we drift ever closer to authoritarian oligarchy with each passing day.


Yeah, that's the nature of our system, it's built in such a way that the 1% pull all the strings and ensure their power is never challenged, unless you come from someone who's rich already. That's why we need a new system from the ground up, because the status quo doesn't work and we should quit trying to affirm something so fictional.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> But if the system is broken, and ruled by billionaires, someone might try to fight them by becoming a billionaire themselves?
> 
> One-upping each other is consistent in our nature.


Why would billionaires fight against their own interests on behalf of the working class, though?  When you have such obscene amounts of money, you start to see everybody less wealthy as nothing but ants or pawns, playthings.  Money may or may not be the root of all evil, but it certainly enables evil on a much larger scale than would otherwise be possible.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> To add to this, both parties in the US are some form of right, with the republicans being far right and going even further as time goes on. That said however, lack of party representation does not mean that ideas are unpopular, it means that the two party system doesn't work.


----------



## Lumstar (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Why would billionaires fight against their own interests on behalf of the working class, though?  When you have such obscene amounts of money, you start to see everybody less wealthy as nothing but ants or pawns, playthings.  Money may or may not be the root of all evil, but it certainly enables evil on a much larger scale than would otherwise be possible.



Leftist society is a fantasy. How are you supposed to stop a select few from "rising to the top". There's going to be people who are healthier, more charismatic, harder working, etc.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Why would billionaires fight against their own interests on behalf of the working class, though?  When you have such obscene amounts of money, you start to see everybody less wealthy as nothing but ants or pawns, playthings.  Money may or may not be the root of all evil, but it certainly enables evil on a much larger scale than would otherwise be possible.



You are right that money does enable evil on larger scales, but you aren't speaking on the alternative.  What if someone became a billionaire because their interest was in fighting on behalf of a better future (not just working class, but every person)?



LainaGabranth said:


> That's why we need a new system from the ground up, because the status quo doesn't work and we should quit trying to affirm something so fictional.



Walk the talk.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> Leftist society is a fantasy. How are you supposed to stop a select few from "rising to the top". There's going to be people who are healthier, more charismatic, harder working, etc.


What you're talking about is a meritocracy, which capitalism most assuredly is not.  Instead, where you start from is a 99% accurate predictor of where you'll end up.  People like Trump and Musk have never done an honest day's work in their entire lives.  Leftist ideals would bring us much closer to a meritocracy, wherein every individual is the beneficiary of the fruits of their own labor, rather than having lazy CEOs leech millions of dollars per hour off the backs of those underneath them.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> Leftist society is a fantasy. How are you supposed to stop a select few from "rising to the top". There's going to be people who are healthier, more charismatic, harder working, etc.


By decentralizing their power. This is like, leftism 101. It's why you'd have people elect their leaders in a workplace rather than be held to the whims of out of touch marketing divisions and investors, or outside actors who just view everything as an investment, even if it's basic living necessities.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> Leftist society is a fantasy. How are you supposed to stop a select few from "rising to the top". There's going to be people who are healthier, more charismatic, harder working, etc.



It's only a fantasy because it's suggested that an institution needs to guide/rule people; which already seeds corruption over time.

People need to be able to do this on their own for it to actually be real.  I think it is possible that humanity could learn this, but I don't know how, exactly, that would happen.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> People like Trump and Musk have never done an honest day's work in their entire lives.



What do you mean by this?  I'm sure both of them work very hard, maybe every day.  They could very well believe in what they are working for.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What do you mean by this?  I'm sure both of them work very hard, maybe every day.  They could very well believe in what they are working for.


They were born rich, they'll die rich.  Their parents paid their way through to good grades in college.  Musk bought an already established company and then retroactively called himself a "founder" of that company.  His seed money came from apartheid South African emerald mines, slave labor.  Trump is a "real estate mogul," which requires no skills whatsoever except having enough money to fail multiple times with poor investments, which he did.  He literally would've been more successful by simply sticking the money his dad gave him in a savings account and letting it accrue interest.

Even playing "undercover boss" for a day would be too much for either of them, especially in a menial job like cashiering at McDonald's or cleaning toilets as a janitor.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It's why you'd have people elect their leaders in a workplace rather than be held to the whims of out of touch marketing divisions and investors, or outside actors who just view everything as an investment, even if it's basic living necessities.



If people could propose and conduct elections without corruption, or accusations of such, they wouldn't need an election in the first place.


----------



## Lumstar (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What do you mean by this?  I'm sure both of them work very hard, maybe every day.  They could very well believe in what they are working for.



Dishonest work is not easy. The elite walk a tightrope every day to avoid a solid enough morsel slipping through to pin against them.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They were born rich, they'll die rich.  Their parents paid their way through to good grades in college.  Musk bought an already established company and then retroactively called himself a "founder" of that company.  His seed money came from apartheid South African emerald mines, slave labor.  Trump is a "real estate mogul," which requires no skills whatsoever except having enough money to fail multiple times with poor investments, which he did.  He literally would've been more successful by simply sticking the money his dad gave him in a savings account and letting it accrue interest.
> 
> Even playing "undercover boss" for a day would be too much for either of them, especially in a menial job like cashiering at McDonald's or cleaning toilets as a janitor.



You say all that, but I know little about the person saying that.  My immediate impression is that you are jealous, and do not know these people personally, and that makes you sad.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> Dishonest work is not easy. The elite walk a tightrope every day to avoid a solid enough morsel slipping through to pin against them.



You and Xzi are at odds with each other.  Is the outcome the only thing that matters, blaming rich people for your problems?

It doesn't seem like there is any hope for people if the fact that people having money exists means that you cannot be  satisfied.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You and Xzi are at odds with each other.  Is the outcome the only thing that matters, blaming rich people for your problems?
> 
> It doesn't seem like there is any hope for people if the fact that people having money exists means that you cannot be  satisfied.


So you are saying money is evil.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You say all that, but I know little about the person saying that.  My immediate impression is that you are jealous, and do not know these people personally, and that makes you sad.


There's no point in jealousy over being born extremely wealthy.  It's as random as the lottery.  My parents are loving and supportive, and always worked hard to provide me more than they had as kids, which resulted in me being a happy and well-adjusted adult.  I don't advocate for myself as much as I advocate for the people who never had all the advantages that I did.

As far as "not knowing billionaires personally," I've met my fair share of narcisstic sociopaths.  They aren't people you want to stay close to for long.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 23, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> So you are saying money is evil.



If you were paying attention to what I said, it is that money can be used as a tool for "good" or "evil".  I am challenging those who believe people who have money to being pre-disposed to evil deeds.



Xzi said:


> As far as "not knowing billionaires personally," I've met my fair share of narcisstic sociopaths. They aren't people you want to stay close to for long.



So far, this hasn't been a discussion about narcissistic sociopaths.  What we did cover was that you believe that  all billionaires are narcissistic sociopaths.  Why?


----------



## SG854 (Sep 23, 2022)

Mo Money Mo Problems


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you were paying attention to what I said, it is that money can be used as a tool for "good" or "evil".  I am challenging those who believe people who have money to being pre-disposed to evil deeds.
> 
> 
> 
> So far, this hasn't been a discussion about narcissistic sociopaths.  What we did cover was that you believe that  all billionaires are narcissistic sociopaths.  Why?


So you are saying that some people are evil and they shouldn't have money.
Who are they and are you on the team that decides... or is this more of a community decision.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 23, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Mo Money Mo Problems


If we put this thread on the blockchain it would be significantly less stupid


----------



## Lumstar (Sep 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You and Xzi are at odds with each other.  Is the outcome the only thing that matters, blaming rich people for your problems?
> 
> It doesn't seem like there is any hope for people if the fact that people having money exists means that you cannot be  satisfied.



Don't lump me in with whoever you're talking about. Most rich people spend their money on fancy cars, houses, or other status symbols, rather than purposeful villainy.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> Don't lump me in with whoever you're talking about. Most rich people spend their money on fancy cars, houses, or other status symbols, rather than purposeful villainy.


That you're aware of. Look how upset people got about Mayor The Joker's 0.5% secret lair tax which was earmarked to provide free college education at GCU to Gotham City residents.


----------



## Lumstar (Sep 23, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> That you're aware of. Look how upset people got about Mayor The Joker's 0.5% secret lair tax which was earmarked to provide free college education at GCU to Gotham City residents.



An interesting thought. What would someone unhinged like Joker do to keep up appearances of public approval?


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 23, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> An interesting thought. What would someone unhinged like Joker do to keep up appearances of public approval?


Have you not watched the Harley Quinn show? He's a reformed family man now trying to be a loving husband and supportive father to his stepson. He only becomes unhinged in battles with that bitch PTA president Kathy.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, where were you born?


I'll do you one better. Why are you here?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

Here's a question, righties. If Trump did such a great job as president, why did he lose the election and end up as a one term chump?


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> So you are saying that some people are evil and they shouldn't have money.
> Who are they and are you on the team that decides... or is this more of a community decision.



I'm not saying that at all.  If you noticed, I haven't advocated any policy.  Can you read what I said, one more time, and acknowledge that?



MicroNut99 said:


> I'll do you one better. Why are you here?



To have fun and nurture brains.



LainaGabranth said:


> Here's a question, righties. If Trump did such a great job as president, why did he lose the election and end up as a one term chump?



Because Biden had more ballots attributed to him.


----------



## SG854 (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> If we put this thread on the blockchain it would be significantly less stupid


If we put this thread on the blockchain there can only be one owner of this trash

and that honor goes to TraderPatTX


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

There are already blockchains that attempt to archive the internet, though I don't know how successful they are.  The idea has been attempted for several years already; decentralized crowdsharing of HDD space in exchange for tokens.  Somewhere, this thread is probably "immortalized".


----------



## Acid_Snake (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Do you have any real objections or are you just sticking with emotional outbursts


If you read my previous post (which I doubt you can since your reading comprehension is that of a 15 year old cat with alzeimer), you will see every single point I made about your socialist paradise:

- More than a quarter million dead cubans in the bottom of the Caribean.

- Girls and boys as young as 12 having to prostitute to feed themselves.

- Cops standing outside middle and high schools sexually harrasing girls.

- Homosexuals placed on a boat among common criminals (rapists, murderers, etc) and sent out to die at the sea with no supplies.

- People dying in hospital floors with no medication to even calm the pain.

- Little kids looking like living skeletons due to the horrible malnourishment.

- Women marching peacefully in the streets protesting for the freedom of political prisoners getting beaten and brutalized in the middle of the streets by the police.

Also, here's what Fidel Castro has to say about homosexuals:
"The Socialist society cannot allow such degeneracy".
Right after he called them "feminoid burgoise" and sending them to forced labor camps under the motto "work will make you a man", which was blantantly copied from Nazi Concentration camps ("work will make you free" was their motto).

I find it hilarious that you're taking sides with the very same people that did the worst attrocities to your minority group. I guess stockholm syndrime is strong with you (or maybe it's just pure stupidity and ignorance).

Also friendly reminder that the Waffen SS was a copy cat of Lenin's secret police service (the Cheka).

Second friendly reminder that Mussolini used Lenin's USSR as a prime example of a Fascist takeover.

Third friendly reminder that at the start of WWII the USSR and Nazi Germany were allies and they BOTH invaded Poland, they even made lots of joint military exercises, until the Nazis decided to take over the USSR.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SG854 said:


> If we put this thread on the blockchain there can only be one owner of this trash
> 
> and that honor goes to TraderPatTX


The only man as valuable as his token.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> malding


Yeah so, you need to quit chugging soy and pay attention. Do you have a *real objection* or do you just want to cry about Cuba? Can you tell us why you think worker co-ops are bad without going through your dialogue tree? If you want to debate, put your big kid pants on and step up instead of posting whatever this manchild wall of text you tried to throw at me was.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> If you read my previous post (which I doubt you can since your reading comprehension is that of a 15 year old cat with alzeimer), you will see every single point I made about your socialist paradise:
> 
> - More than a quarter million dead cubans in the bottom of the Caribean.
> 
> ...


Don't bother waiting for a reply, @LainaGabranth just refuses to respond to posts that contradict an extreme leftist worldview.

But be sure to keep posting facts, eventually, the truth might eventually break through. It's odd the programming can support two contradictory statements, but can't handle facts that are negative thoughts.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Don't bother waiting for a reply, @LainaGabranth just refuses to respond to posts that contradict an extreme leftist worldview.
> 
> But be sure to keep posting facts, eventually, the truth might eventually break through. It's odd the programming can support two contradictory statements, but can't handle facts that are negative thoughts.


I know it bothers you to hear this and all, but did you know going down your programmed dialog tree and crying about cuba is, in fact, not a rebuttal about the effectiveness of drug decriminalization and worker co-ops?


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I know it bothers you to hear this and all, but did you know going down your programmed dialog tree and crying about cuba is, in fact, not a rebuttal about the effectiveness of drug decriminalization and worker co-ops?


I thought this thread was about Coury Griffin not the effectiveness of drug decriminalization and worker co-ops.

But again you are avoiding talking about the issues with Cuba. Are you able to condemn the atrocities that happen there? You keep speaking up about wanting anarchy, but your sheltered struggle-free life just has you virtue signaling. Just like all the brain-dead liberal studies students celebrating people like Che Guevara while ignoring all the people he murdered.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I thought this thread was about Coury Griffin not the effectiveness of drug decriminalization and worker co-ops.
> 
> But again you are avoiding talking about the issues with Cuba. Are you able to condemn the atrocities that happen there? You keep speaking up about wanting anarchy, but your sheltered struggle-free life just has you virtue signaling. Just like all the brain-dead liberal studies students celebrating people like Che Guevara while ignoring all the people he murdered.


Cuba is not relevant to a single topic in this thread, whatsoever. So I don't really care to answer off topic questions.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Cuba is not relevant to a single topic in this thread, whatsoever. So I don't really care to answer off topic questions.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> View attachment 328588


Tell you what champ. If you wanna be mad about Cuba, go make a thread about Cuba and piss and moan about it there. This is a thread about how good and cool it was that someone who tried to support a fascist takeover of our democracy was punished.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> If we put this thread on the blockchain it would be significantly less stupid


but what if i screenshot it? Your NFT are all mine now


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Tell you what champ. If you wanna be mad about Cuba, go make a thread about Cuba and piss and moan about it there. This is a thread about how good and cool it was that someone who tried to support a fascist takeover of our democracy was punished.


Translation: I only discuss off-topic ideas I like. I'm (D)ifferent that way.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Translation: I only discuss off-topic ideas I like. I'm (D)ifferent that way.


Do you have a take on Couy Griffin being btfo'd for being a domestic terrorist supporter or do you just want to cry about authoritarianism


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

Jan 6th was real guys, and it threatened our democracy™.

I'm just glad that we have a real president that will make politics of the left more relevant.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Do you have a take on Couy Griffin being btfo'd for being a domestic terrorist supporter or do you just want to cry about authoritarianism


I do, I think the judge greatly overstepped the powers he was given. Were Griffin charged with and then found guilty of things that could make him ineligible for his position the verdict would make sense, but in the DC court he was only found guilty of trespassing.

The August trial in Santa Fe was a civil trial, and I fail to understand how this could affect eligibility at either a state or federal level.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I do, I think the judge greatly overstepped the powers he was given. Were Griffin charged with and then found guilty of things that could make him ineligible for his position the verdict would make sense, but in the DC court he was only found guilty of trespassing.
> 
> The August trial in Santa Fe was a civil trial, and I fail to understand how this could affect eligibility at either a state or federal level.


Do you think people who try to overthrow democracy should be allowed to participate in it still?


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

How the hell do you "overthrow" democracy?  It either works or it doesn't.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> How the hell do you "overthrow" democracy? It either works or it doesn't.


threaten to kill or forcefully remove democratically elected officials. Just one for thought. Idk, like... chanting kill mike pence.... idk. Looking to remove the current sitting speaker of the house? idk. Intentionally stopping the election certification process? idk. bringing weapons?
Your clown clothes are really revealing if you genuinely can't think that far. I also swear if I hear "but they didn't succeed so it's fine"
That's like saying that because I shot the gun at you, and it missed, that I shouldn't be convicted for attempted murder because it failed.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> threaten to kill or forcefully remove democratically elected officials. Just one for thought. Idk, like... chanting kill mike pence.... idk. Looking to remove the current sitting speaker of the house? idk. Intentionally stopping the election certification process? idk. bringing weapons?
> Your clown clothes are really revealing if you genuinely can't think that far. I also swear if I hear "but they didn't succeed so it's fine"
> That's like saying that because I shot the gun at you, and it missed, that I shouldn't be convicted for attempted murder because it failed.


I mean the only reason anyone could possibly think that Jan 6th was anything other than a genuine attempt to overthrow an election that their precious tyrant wannabe lost is if they're either brain damaged, or they're coping and trying to deny the fact. These apes would be cheering if Trump managed to overthrow Biden lmao. I'd have more respect if they'd come out and say what they think instead of pretending.


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> threaten to kill or forcefully remove democratically elected officials. Just one for thought. Idk, like... chanting kill mike pence.... idk. Looking to remove the current sitting speaker of the house? idk. Intentionally stopping the election certification process? idk. bringing weapons?
> Your clown clothes are really revealing if you genuinely can't think that far. I also swear if I hear "but they didn't succeed so it's fine"
> That's like saying that because I shot the gun at you, and it missed, that I shouldn't be convicted for attempted murder because it failed.


it's sadly ironic how this country came to be by rebelion do it today and you'll probably get shot or the needle


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> it's sadly ironic how this country came to be by rebelion do it today and you'll probably get shot or the needle


To be fair the risk of getting shot or hung was pretty high with the original rebellion as well.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> To be fair the risk of getting shot or hung was pretty high with the original rebellion as well.


Shame we didn't bring it back for Jan 6th-ers.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> it's sadlt ironic how this country came to be by rebelion


Not ironic. (I mean it can be if your just looking at it completely simplistically
Overthrow government (monarchy) to get new government.)
  It rebelled against kings and queens. There was no method or means to check such a system. We live (or supposed to. be) a representative democracy.  So there's supposed to more checks in place. And to some degree, it is better than a monarchy. Now if we could just get money of politics, that be great. better yet, get rid of the electoral collage.

People don't like bloodshed, it's the last resort. Or at least should be. Because it's not pretty.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Shame we didn't bring it back for Jan 6th-ers.


They did, look at Ashley Babbitt, the difference was the insurrectionists were unarmed.

But I'm glad you were able to finally speak your mind about feeling that the government should murder political dissidents. I'm sure Xi approved +5 social credit points for that.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> insurrectionists were unarmed.



"They have Glock-style pistols"
They were armed. I'm tired of this. Really.

Trump to security staff getting angry that the metal detectors were going off over their weapons.

Are we done with NPC diolouge boxes? or do we have another 8,000 pages to go through.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> "They have Glock-style pistols"
> They were armed. I'm tired of this. Really.
> 
> Trump to security staff getting angry that the metal detectors were going off over their weapons.



Where are the weapon charges in the trials? I believe only one person had been charged so far.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> They did, look at Ashley Babbitt, the difference was the insurrectionists were unarmed.
> 
> But I'm glad you were able to finally speak your mind about feeling that the government should murder political dissidents. I'm sure Xi approved +5 social credit points for that.


Yes I do think that people who want to shoot our officials and take over our government should be shot. Your grandstanding isn't working here, cultist.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Where are the weapon charges in the trials?


https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
here's one. straight from the horses mouth and plead guilty.
We going to dance for another 1,000 pages again of denial or what?


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Yes I do think that people who want to shoot our officials and take over our government should be shot. Your grandstanding isn't working here, cultist.


More accurately, a group of people who don't represent the people, who are not liked by the majority of people (both in office and as a normal citizen), trying to overthrow the government.

IF the majority of people do it, then it's an agreed revolution. If a minority of people do it, and are dispised to put it lightly, then that's a coup attempt. A power grab that no one agreed to except themselves.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> threaten to kill or forcefully remove democratically elected officials. Just one for thought. Idk, like... chanting kill mike pence.... idk. Looking to remove the current sitting speaker of the house? idk. Intentionally stopping the election certification process? idk. bringing weapons?
> Your clown clothes are really revealing if you genuinely can't think that far. I also swear if I hear "but they didn't succeed so it's fine"
> That's like saying that because I shot the gun at you, and it missed, that I shouldn't be convicted for attempted murder because it failed.


I only can see that as a product of your "democracy".  No matter how bad you want to frame it, those citizens are subjects; not foreign entities.

The democracy of Germany elected Hitler, and then things took a hard swing into fascism as its democracy committed seppuku.

I'm afraid that no matter who you "elect", that America is headed directly towards an authoritarian conclusion.  It seems like everyone is trying to scramble to be on the inside of it.

Honestly, everyone should have seen it when it was Trump vs Clinton.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I only can see that as a product of your "democracy". No matter how bad you want to frame it, those citizens are subjects of your democracy.


No it's a product of the constant continuous erosion of it.
And it's not "my" democracy. I already told you what I do and don't support. I do support "a democracy"
I don't support a representative democracy without proper insulation. Aka, get money the fuck out, and remove gerrymandering since it serves no purpose other than trying to gain the system.
And I'm a major supporter of a direct democracy system. Aka, remove representatives outright, and instead let laws be choose by people through entirely in merit through public support.

And the cause of that erosion?
By none other than the few powerful elites, capitalism.

Aka, including, Republicans and Democrats who represent those powerful elites to varying degrees. With Republicans going straight off the cliff to authoritarianism.

I've gone through this how many times now?

Tl;dr capitalism is an authoritarian based system, it's inherit structure is top to bottom. The boss is the boss, and you get no say in it. Just like how the king is the king, and you cannot go against his words.

Capitalism and democracy are as opposites as oil and water. They don't mix. You can mix it around as much as you want, you might even get it to mix a tiny bit, but it'll separate in the end.


tabzer said:


> The democracy of Germany elected Hitler, and then things took a hard swing into fascism as its democracy committed seppuku.


The reason Hitler got elected is for the same reasons the United States is on it's last swing point. I give it 2023 or 2024 that the entire system may come completely undone:

Economic down turn/people's needs not being met
Misinformation (aka, fox news, and anything to the right of it.)
Leftism comes as answer to further and further right wing politics. Something we've seen as rights of people have been removed, or continuation of make acting in a democracy harder. Aka, banning trans, aka trying to ban gay marriage, aka trying to prevent people means of voting. (aka blocking mail in ballots) making women's lives miserable.

The only difference is between then and now. Is that fascism to that degree has been seen. And so leftists have the tool set more readily viable to fight against fascist movements.

And the reason I suspect 2023 is because the supreme court wants to rule on independent legislature theory. Which effectively makes it possible for the state to just, not check in with the voter populous. Something Republicans have been heavily pushing.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I only can see that as a product of your "democracy".  No matter how bad you want to frame it, those citizens are subjects; not foreign entities.
> 
> The democracy of Germany elected Hitler, and then things took a hard swing into fascism as its democracy committed seppuku.
> 
> ...


So in other words, you want an dictatorship, and just trying to hide behind it with "well that's just what's going to happen anyways"
You have been very loud and vocal about your support of the Republican Party.
sorry that you don't pull the wool over people's eyes as you hope.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> So in other words, you want an dictatorship, and just trying to hide behind it with "well that's just what's going to happen anyways"
> You have been very loud and vocal about your support of the Republican Party.
> sorry that you don't pull the wool over people's eyes as you hope.


I don't think he has anyone convinced, least of all himself. People who support the Republican party in the modern era either are stupid enough to believe their propaganda, or maliciously support authoritarianism that seeks to oppress everyone who doesn't fall in line with the status quo.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/...and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
> here's one. straight from the horses mouth and plead guilty.
> We going to dance for another 1,000 pages again of denial or what?


_Where are the weapon charges in the trials? _*I believe only one person had been charged so far.*

I already covered that but you failed to quote it to try to make a point.

But you're right that's the most embarrassing insurrection ever when only Mark remembered to bring his gun with the hundreds of thousand of others forgetting.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> _Where are the weapon charges in the trials? _*I believe only one person had been charged so far.*


You want a second?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...r-pipe-bomber-and-other-insurrection-suspects
If the FBI is after you, that's likely another charge.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> _Where are the weapon charges in the trials? _*I believe only one person had been charged so far.*
> 
> I already covered that but you failed to quote it to try to make a point.
> 
> But you're right that's the most embarrassing insurrection ever when only Mark remembered to bring his gun with the hundreds of thousand of others forgetting.


https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/22/man-charged-loaded-firearm-capitol-riot-523178
have several
"Mark Mazza, 56, is the latest of about *half a dozen* Jan. 6 defendants charged with bringing a gun to the Capitol. In this case"
you asked for charges, you get more charges.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

It's cool that you want to claim that it's not your democracy.  Voting for Biden seems to contradict that.

The point I'm making about your "democracy" is that it has a centralizing trajectory.  It's either left or right that's going to assume the throne, and both are bad outcomes.  The result would be indistinguishable, whether it was a leftists or a righty.  



Nothereed said:


> So in other words, you want an dictatorship, and just trying to hide behind it with "well that's just what's going to happen anyways"



Me being cynical about America is not the same as saying I want a dictatorship.  I want more decentralization and communities to be localized, tbh.  I've said so.



Nothereed said:


> You have been very loud and vocal about your support of the Republican Party.



I don't support the Republican party.  I have spoken on concerns that the Republican party uses as talking points.  I've never encouraged trusting either party.  I've vocalized incentive to start a new one, but people just want to vote for lesser corruption, as the corruption escalates between both parties every term.  Meh.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> _Where are the weapon charges in the trials? _*I believe only one person had been charged so far.*
> 
> I already covered that but you failed to quote it to try to make a point.
> 
> But you're right that's the most embarrassing insurrection ever when only Mark remembered to bring his gun with the hundreds of thousand of others forgetting.


You know what, scratch that
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
have the entire list.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's cool that you want to claim that it's not your democracy. Voting for Biden seems to contradict that.


I didn't vote Biden. I voted for someone in green party as write in. (don't remember their name. As I've been keeping track of someone else)


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

I'm honestly on the fence about that type of approach.  It is better than what the majority of voters appear to do.  I just don't see how you are going to fix your situation without revolution, and risk being branded as a "threat to democracy", which seems to have been an inevitability.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> You know what, scratch that
> https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
> have the entire list.


Thanks for the list, I've been able to locate five people charged while attempting multiple searching. I believe my point still stands with five versus hundreds of thousands.

But please provide evidence of any others you can find.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'm honestly on the fence about that type of approach. It is better than what the majority of voters appear to do. I just don't see how you are going to fix your situation without revolution, and risk being branded as a threat to "democracy".


Well the majority of voters don't get a kind option. I live in state where I can practically throw away my vote. But if your say, in idk. One of the swing states. Your vote may be the difference between getting the worst outcome, or the second worst outcome.

Again, the electoral collage system fucking sucks. Because it's a winner take all system. if say, independent x, get's 55% of the vote. Then indepdent y, gets absolutely no representation in that state, in the federal election. Resulting in overall trimming the bases that should be there, and not representing them.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Well the majority of voters don't get a kind option. I live in state where I can practically throw away my vote. But if your say, in idk. One of the swing states. Your vote may be the difference between getting the worst outcome, or the second worst outcome.
> 
> Again, the electoral collage system fucking sucks. Because it's a winner take all system. if say, independent x, get's 55% of the vote. Then indepdent y, gets absolutely no representation in that state, in the federal election. Resulting in overall trimming the bases that should be there, and not representing them.



Well, I think I have already alluded to the idea that "modern democracy" has a relatively predictable outcome; a centralized agency.  Unless there is something that you can implement that will change the trajectory of political reformation into becoming progressively decentralized, you will never end up with everyone being represented.  But then again, as you suggest, it's not likely that one of the two main parties have incentive to present something that will help people diffuse themselves.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'm not saying that at all.  If you noticed, I haven't advocated any policy.  Can you read what I said, one more time, and acknowledge that?


Yes I've noticed that you don't advocate anything.
Its a central part of your strategy and its maddening.
Stand for something man...
Just not the opposite of the person you are speaking with.
There are clear rules for fair engagement and you break them all the time.
Don't play people and you wont get played.



tabzer said:


> To have fun and nurture brains.


So you think you have something to offer the people.
You are not fun to play with and imo a terrible educator of well anything I can find.
Do you have any training in education, logic or programming?
Have you have ever been in a debate class and or been part of any real debates?
Have you had any tech questions answered on gbatemp that were outside of your expertise?

I did all of the above and served five years.
I was sgt in the US Army
And I love world history...

So Yes... back on topic he is barred for good reason.
Meat for the trolls:
J6 magats are mostly traitors.
and Trump is hopefully next.
Time will tell.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> Yes I've noticed that you don't advocate anything.



So, where is your apology for being completely wrong?



MicroNut99 said:


> Its a central part of your strategy and its maddening.
> Stand for something man...



Why should I?  Can't I just be here to entertain thinking?  If you want to think I don't have ideas and opinions, simply based on the notion that I don't disclose them so directly or fervently, it's your choice.



MicroNut99 said:


> Just not the opposite of the person you are speaking with.
> 
> There are clear rules for fair engagement and you break them all the time.
> Don't play people and you wont get played.



I don't know what you are talking about.  I entered this forum by my volition, aware to a degree, of how people operate here.  



MicroNut99 said:


> So you think you have something to offer the people.
> You are not fun to play with and imo a terrible educator of well anything I can find.
> Do you have any training in education, logic or programming?
> Have you have ever been in a debate classes and or been part of any real debates?



I know I offer something to people, whether they enjoy it or not.  I don't believe in "waste".  You haven't been having fun with me, and I don't see any reason why you should have expected it.

"Training" is an interesting term to use.  Is your worldview strictly hierarchical?

I'm hosting a debate class right now.



MicroNut99 said:


> Have you had questions any tech questions answered on gbatemp that were outside of your expertise?



What? 



MicroNut99 said:


> I did all of the above and served five years.
> I was sgt in the US Army
> And I love world history...



Ok.



MicroNut99 said:


> So Yes... back on topic she is barred for good reason.



What?



MicroNut99 said:


> Meat for the trolls:
> 
> J6 magats are mostly traitors.
> and Trump is hopefully next.
> Time will tell



Even if what you say isn't LARP, credentials aren't a substitute for logical faculty.  Passion isn't a substitute for capability.

Like me, you are probably bored right now, hoping that the world will change.  I'm somewhat optimistic in general.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Thanks for the list, I've been able to locate five people charged while attempting multiple searching. I believe my point still stands with five versus hundreds of thousands.
> 
> But please provide evidence of any others you can find.


Have you been following the J6 hearings?
They didn't find many more guns because Trump ordered the MAGS down.
He said let them in because he wasn't worried they where going to shoot him.
Damming their careers some good republicans are helping bring it all together.
Yes I did say that.

What happened on J6 was an insurrection. 
Not cool.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> Have you been following the J6 hearings?
> They didn't find many more guns because Trump ordered the MAGS down.
> He said let them in because he wasn't worried they where going to shoot him.
> Damming their careers some good republicans are helping bring it all together.
> ...


That would have only been at the rally he had. Trump had no authority over Capital Police or National Guard. There was also the ability for anyone to join the march from any point after the rally as that wasn't secured. He did attempt to have the National Guard mobilized the day before to help with providing security and order at the capital but his requests were turned down by Nancy Pelosi.

But go ahead taking everything from those hearings as absolute truth. If you believe that, then I see why you are frightened of Trump's superpowers being able to break through the partition of the presidential limo and grab the wheel as was claimed during those hearings.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So, where is your apology for being completely wrong?


I only offer honest apologies. 


tabzer said:


> Why should I?  Can't I just be here to entertain thinking?  If you want to think I don't have ideas and opinions, simply based on the notion that I don't disclose them so directly or fervently, it's your choice.


You responded to me with asinine commentary and I played you back.
You don't like it. Nobody does.



tabzer said:


> I don't know what you are talking about.  I entered this forum by my volition, aware to a degree, of how people operate here.
> 
> I know I offer something to people, whether they enjoy it or not.  I don't believe in "waste".  You haven't been having fun with me, and I don't see any reason why you should have expected it.
> 
> "Training" is an interesting term to use.  Is your worldview strictly hierarchical?


My world view is flat.
I am a Buddhist.

What I look for is postitve exchange... I haven't seen that when you reply to me.
The abortion commentary was over the top rude.
This is from a thread where I had a very positive exchange with a person outside and opposite of my experience.

Quote me and eat it up as much as you want.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/lets-talk-about-suppression.618463/page-8#post-9945533
*
"So there are Jewish people who have their own long standing laws.
And I am glad we agree on the narrow margin of this one point.

Now here is mine and I have expressed it several times to this harsh audience.

A long time ago me and my wife had an abortion.
Instead of killing two people, we both went on to create a lot more life.
I don't need to justify this to anyone.
The end has justified the means.

In all the billions of people on the planet and millions here in the US,
there is no way for me to judge what is right for all people in all circumstances.
When it comes to something this important.... that's just imho irrational."*



tabzer said:


> I'm hosting a debate class right now.
> What?
> Ok.
> What?
> ...


GBAtemp is hosting something called a discussion board or even something more fancy.
When you start calling someone a terrible person and so on it.... then why are you here?

and Who doesn't want a better world.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> That would have only been at the rally he had. Trump had no authority over Capital Police or National Guard. There was also the ability for anyone to join the march from any point after the rally as that wasn't secured. He did attempt to have the National Guard mobilized the day before to help with providing security and order at the capital but his requests were turned down by Nancy Pelosi.
> 
> But go ahead taking everything from those hearings as absolute truth. If you believe that, then I see why you are frightened of Trump's superpowers being able to break through the partition of the presidential limo and grab the wheel as was claimed during those hearings.


I am not afraid.
Before making any hard choice I gather my information from as many sources as possible, leaving most commentary behind.
From what I have seen Trump is not a good person and far from qualified to be leader of the country.
I don't believe in any conspiracies.
But I have to admit the pedos in the Catholic Church were real and most didn't Believe that in the 80's.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 24, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> Before making any hard choice I gather my information from as many sources as possible, leaving most commentary behind.


That's all you can do, but sadly most of the media in the US is owned by a small number of groups. And much of it is just propaganda. Be open to news sources from other countries. And at least be aware of narratives being pushed on alternative media.

Every major scandal was a conspiracy at one point until the truth finally came to light for the general population.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Even if what you say isn't LARP, credentials aren't a substitute for logical faculty.  Passion isn't a substitute for capability.
> Like me, you are probably bored right now, hoping that the world will change.  I'm somewhat optimistic in general.


Lots of coffee and hacking.
I mostly hate rules. 
Mostly because I know that if I imagined the world working the way I wanted it too then it would not work at all.

I don't care if you like or follow this shit or not because what you say and do is on you.

Here are some basic guidelines:
1. Try and reach a shared understanding rather than ‘win the argument’.
2. Clarify with others to make sure I genuinely understand their perspective.
3. Endeavor to avoid committing logical fallacies in support of my claims.
4. Attempt to account for my own biases and *try to be intellectually humble.*
5. Try to be reasonable, rational, and create coherent arguments.
6. Refrain from personal attacks, sarcasm, and mean-spiritedness.
7. Use the ‘Principle of Charity’ to see the merits of others’ points of view in the best light.
8. Remain genuinely receptive to changing my mind if presented with compelling arguments or evidence


----------



## tabzer (Sep 24, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> I only offer honest apologies.



So falsely representing is just M.O.?



MicroNut99 said:


> You responded to me with asinine commentary and I played you back.
> You don't like it. Nobody does.



How does that coordinate as a response to what we were talking about?  What did I say that can be considered equivalent to:

"Its a central part of your strategy and its maddening.
Stand for something man..."



MicroNut99 said:


> My world view is flat.
> I am a Buddhist.



Army guy becomes Buddhist.  If it weren't such a contradiction to how you behave, I'd be pointing out how cliché that is.  Also "I am a Buddhist" isn't a worldview or an organic response.  It's what people say when they want to be seen as enlightened but have no idea what it means.



MicroNut99 said:


> What I look for is postitve exchange... I haven't seen that when you reply to me.
> The abortion commentary was over the top rude.



All exchange is positive.  Your expectation of the outcome is what brings you disappointment, grasshopper.

If you want to re-address something I said about abortion, then do that.



MicroNut99 said:


> This is from a thread where I had a very positive exchange with a person outside and opposite of my experience.



I don't care.



MicroNut99 said:


> 1. Try and reach a shared understanding rather than ‘win the argument’.
> 2. Clarify with others to make sure I genuinely understand their perspective.
> 3. Endeavor to avoid committing logical fallacies in support of my claims.
> 4. Attempt to account for my own biases and *try to be intellectually humble.*
> ...



How about you do that, and just hope that I entertain you with the respect that you show me.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> That's all you can do, but sadly most of the media in the US is owned by a small number of groups. And much of it is just propaganda. Be open to news sources from other countries. And at least be aware of narratives being pushed on alternative media.
> 
> Every major scandal was a conspiracy at one point until the truth finally came to light for the general population.


And be open to reading history books from other countries!
History in Japan is optional to a professional degree.
Some perhaps many are not aware of the horrors committed.
Japanese war crimes are on the same level and The Germans.
The Nanjing Massacre and Japanese unit 731. 
I was married to a Japanese woman and spent years in the country.
Sometime was used learning together Japans WW2 history. Just blew my wind.
Many stories to be told....


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 24, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So falsely representing is just M.O.?


I never offered one because you have not.



tabzer said:


> Army guy becomes Buddhist.  If it weren't such a contradiction to how you behave, I'd be pointing out how cliché that is.  Also "I am a Buddhist" isn't a worldview or an organic response.  It's what people say when they want to be seen as enlightened but have no idea what it means.


Exactly the kind of ignorant and mean spirited response expected.
Don't know who Desmond Doss is.
Never heard of hacksaw ridge.
I don't like mean people and I am not perfect.

Also the response is perfectly again out of context.
I learned to see the world as flat and not hierarchical.
But I also live in a world that is not mine and must adjust to live in it.
I did. Payed college bills, found my wife got married and got out.
It worked out for me. People hired me for great jobs.

But you still cannot see beyond the horizons of your keyboard man.


tabzer said:


> All exchange is positive.  Your expectation of the outcome is what brings you disappointment, grasshopper.
> If you want to re-address something I said about abortion, then do that.


No All exchange is Not positive.
I expect you to be civil.
If you are not then expect the same level of response.



tabzer said:


> I don't care.
> How about you do that, and just hope that I entertain you with the respect that you show me.


Respect should go both ways.

If you can apologies for calling my families choice on abortion a community decision or even some more plainly vague and empty then I will consider offering an apology for riding your tail every time you're an ass hat to someone.
You are not the only word wrangler. Forums are not an old thing.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

I still don't get why you guys are so performative in your opposition to this person being barred. If the tables were turned, and a mob was rushing in to try to shoot Trump and any cult leader representatives you support you'd probably not want any feds in our country to hold office, even at state levels.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 25, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> I never offered one because you have not.



So you are saying that some people are evil and they shouldn't have money.



MicroNut99 said:


> Exactly the kind of ignorant and mean spirited response expected.
> Don't know who Desmond Doss is.
> Never heard of hacksaw ridge.
> I don't like mean people and I am not perfect.
> ...



If you think are attempting to be anything other than patronizing, you are very self-unaware.  It's a an attempt to gloat and I can't bring myself to have envy of you.

It's a bit comical.



MicroNut99 said:


> No All exchange is Not positive.
> I expect you to be civil.
> If you are not then expect the same level of response.



Have you tried becoming one with the grass? 



MicroNut99 said:


> If you can apologies for calling my families choice on abortion a community decision or even some more plainly vague and empty



Apologize for what?  What did I call your family's choice on an abortion?  If this is bothering you, you're going to have to point to where in the forum I hurt you.



MicroNut99 said:


> then I will consider offering an apology for riding your tail every time you're an ass hat to someone.



Why would I want an apology?

Think it through, Desmond.  I'm not the one complaining that "you violated my 'Buddhist' tenets".


----------



## Acid_Snake (Sep 25, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Yeah so, you need to quit chugging soy and pay attention. Do you have a *real objection* or do you just want to cry about Cuba? Can you tell us why you think worker co-ops are bad without going through your dialogue tree? If you want to debate, put your big kid pants on and step up instead of posting whatever this manchild wall of text you tried to throw at me was.


So you don't know how to read and just use terms you don't even understand like "objection".

Worker co-ops? You mean the same workers co-ops that resulted in the destruction of Cuban agriculture?
Cuba went from being the greatest exporter of fine cane sugar, the finest coffee and rhum you can drink and the best tobacco in the world. It no longer is even in the top 10 of those.

The same worker co-op that makes the government owner of your land and farm animals? God forbid you kill a cow in Cuba (cow that you raised yourself), you'll get double the sentence than killing a person.

You don't even know what you're talking about kid, you just read dumb shit online and use it to point out "muh socialism" only to end up showing yourself as the ignorant twat you are.


----------



## Acid_Snake (Sep 25, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> people who want to shoot our officials and take over our government.


This is literally what the communists do, written down in their manifesto, and it's how Lenin, Mao, Castro and every other communist country came to power.

Can we apply your logic and kill all the people that violently took over the Cuban government resulting in the biggest dictatorship ever seen in the American continent?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> The same worker co-op that makes the government owner of your land and farm animals? God forbid you kill a cow in Cuba (cow that you raised yourself), you'll get double the sentence than killing a person.


Then it's not a co-op you dumbass. This is extremely simple conceptually and you are still twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to weasel out of the fact that you have no _real objection_ to anything I said. Protip: Crying about Cuba is not crying about worker co-ops and democracy.

I'm still waiting on what the inherent flaw of worker co-ops are, and why you think businesses today should be ran by out of touch marketing divisions. If workers surrender their sovereignty to the government then it's not a fucking co-op. It's just a planned economy.

_*That's a bad thing.*_ That's literally something I *oppose*.



Acid_Snake said:


> This is literally what the communists do, written down in their manifesto, and it's how Lenin, Mao, Castro and every other communist country came to power.


It's very cute that the Laina kicking her feet up in your head right now is a communist, but I'm not. So quit arguing with the spooky ghost in your head and focus on what's actually being said, you outrage addict.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 25, 2022)

yea... i thinl its about time


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> yea... i thinl its about timeView attachment 328697


A wise decision

also ew light mode


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 25, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> A wise decision
> 
> also ew light mode


i use light mode in discord.... get own weak eyes


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> i use light mode in discord.... get own weak eyes


I spend most of my time high as a kite so the eye strain is very important to minimize lmao


----------



## Acid_Snake (Sep 25, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I spend most of my time high as a kite so the eye strain is very important to minimize lmao


That explains everything...



LainaGabranth said:


> Then it's not a co-op you dumbass.


Tell this to the socialists you defend, not me.



LainaGabranth said:


> you have no _real objection_ to anything I said.


Except I do and I have shown it time and time again, don't make me responsible for your inability to comprehend simple commentary.



LainaGabranth said:


> I'm still waiting on what the inherent flaw of worker co-ops are


Government control, monopoly and big corpo. It only takes two brain cells to figure this out.



LainaGabranth said:


> If workers surrender their sovereignty to the government then it's not a fucking co-op. It's just a planned economy.


You do know that "planned economy" is the literal definition of socialism, right? right? Please tell me you're not that retarded.



LainaGabranth said:


> in your head right now is a communist, but I'm not.


Yeah I, and every other decent human being, have a very difficult time distinguishing between National-Socialists, Communists and what-the-fuck-ever you call "Socialism", they all look and feel like the same shit.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Except I do and I have shown it time and time again, don't make me responsible for your inability to comprehend simple commentary.


Crying about cuba and pretending authoritarianism is socialism (so much for being a believer in freedom and democracy lmao) is not a rebuttal to anything I've said about worker co-ops.



Acid_Snake said:


> You do know that "planned economy" is the literal definition of socialism, right? right? Please tell me you're not that retarded.


Slurs are a sign of intellectual weakness. You can articulate your positions better than just crying. Planned economies are more communist than socialist. It's why there's "Market socialism," and "Market abolitionist socialism," the two are completely different positions. If you're ignorant on theory, that's not my problem. Don't reply to me with whiny nonsense if you don't even know the difference between market and marketless systems.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

also lmao


Acid_Snake said:


> Yeah I, and every other decent human being, have a very difficult time distinguishing between National-Socialists, Communists and what-the-fuck-ever you call "Socialism", they all look and feel like the same shit.


No you don't, you only adopt this position for identity politics and larping. No one is stupid enough to look at workers voting on how they use the means of production and go "WOW, THIS IS LITERALLY 1940S GERMANY" lmao. Don't sling insults when you openly admit you cannot tell the difference between five workers electing a manager from their ranks, a commanded economy with no system of currency, and a country literally built on the expulsion of an entire religion from Europe. If you believe these three things are the same, you do not believe anything.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 26, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So you are saying that some people are evil and they shouldn't have money.
> Why would I want an apology?


You fucking asked for one, you stupid butt hurt bastard.



tabzer said:


> Think it through, Desmond.  I'm not the one complaining that "you violated my 'Buddhist' tenets".


You didn't violate anything accept yourself.

Now just fuck off.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 26, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> Government control, monopoly and big corpo. It only takes two brain cells to figure this out.





Don't do drugs, it turns you into a communist apparently.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 26, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Don't do drugs, it turns you into a communist apparently.


But I really like bacon.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 26, 2022)

communism is when you smoke weed


----------



## tabzer (Sep 26, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> You fucking asked for one, you stupid butt hurt bastard.



I didn't ask for one.  I asked where it was.  It is not typical for a zen master to flip out, do bad shit, and not apologize.


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 26, 2022)

at this rate the economical model of communism MINUS the authoriatarian government that is 99% attached to it seems better than some dipshits on wall street betting our investments away while they get richer and we get jack, also when the AHCA was butchered by the GOP only to pin the blame on obama (he has some blame though for not reading that butchered mess and  vetoing then if the GOP pass it by 2/3rds guess who's to blame then?)


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 26, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I didn't ask for one.  I asked where it was.  It is not typical for a zen master to flip out, do bad shit, and not apologize.


You are right. I am wrong.
You asked for an apology from me for being wrong about you never taking a stance on anything.
I still stand by that.

All of these personal attacks regarding the Buddhist religion make you a bigot at best.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 26, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> You are right. I am wrong.
> You asked for an apology from me for being wrong about you never taking a stance on anything.
> I still stand by that.
> 
> All of these personal attacks regarding the Buddhist religion make you a bigot at best.


Yeah tabzer isn't particularly open to ideas not approved by his billionaire overlords


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 26, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> at this rate the economical model of communism MINUS the authoriatarian government that is 99% attached to it seems better than some dipshits on wall street betting our investments away while they get richer and we get jack, also when the AHCA was butchered by the GOP only to pin the blame on obama (he has some blame though for not reading that butchered mess and  vetoing then if the GOP pass it by 2/3rds guess who's to blame then?)


The economic model of Communism always looks great. Until they get control, then the dead bodies start piling up, and the useful idiots are the first to go.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 27, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> The economic model of Communism always looks great. Until they get control, then the dead bodies start piling up, and the useful idiots are the first to go.


IDK. When you have (capitalism) willingly charge substantially higher costs on medications like insulin (*for a month, it can be anywhere from 100+ dollars to far more (*700)*)*
Or a EpiPen, which the average cost is a whopping 700 bucks if your not insured (while in those crazy socialist countries who have removed a for profit healthcare system. Is a mezely 100 bucks for two)

Oh let's not forget the people dying to the exposed elements. Or the people starving. Or people dying to perfectly treatable illnesses.

And that's exluding factors like a for profit military system.
And this is excluding the type of government (authoritarian, or anarchistic)

Meanwhile communism, presuming that it's not a dictatorship (say idk. A direct democracy. So in other words anarcho communism)
You know what the deaths would be?
As little as possible. Because communists don't care about what's in your wallet. We care about other people's well being. There's no point forcing someone into a 40+ hour work grind, if their mental health is in shambles.
(hell that ignores the fact that we don't need the 40 hour work week at all. anything beyond 4 hours and our productivity has proven to tank.)
 Hell conventional jobs would just be phased out, doing the same kind of work over and over day in and out is not healthy. It leads to burn out.
And it's not like no work would be done, someone still has to manage the sewers, someone still has to keep track of the electric grid. doctors are still needed.
But instead of some private business's manager handling shit. The community would handle it, aka, the people that fucking live there. Instead of relying on some private company who's just looking for the next set of massive profits.

Tl;dr Captalism has a fuck ton of blood on it's hands. From the Military, down to the United States horrible For profit healthcare system, which profits off of people's misfortunes, and kills through it's paywall. Anarcho communism is a more ethical way (or less radical views such as democratic socalism) would still be far better than Capitalism.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> IDK. When you have (capitalism) willingly charge substantially higher costs on medications like insulin (*for a month, it can be anywhere from 100+ dollars to far more (*700)*)*
> Or a EpiPen, which the average cost is a whopping 700 bucks if your not insured (while in those crazy socialist countries who have removed a for profit healthcare system. Is a mezely 100 bucks for two)
> 
> Oh let's not forget the people dying to the exposed elements. Or the people starving. Or people dying to perfectly treatable illnesses.
> ...


Please go join a hippie communist commune. I want to see how long you last before you GTFO.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 27, 2022)

@SScorpio
Since you're already laughing. Let me ask you. How would you fix the for profit healthcare system killing people. How would you resolve having a for profit military system.

Since if your laughing, that must mean some other solution that you deem "better" is possible. So I'd like to hear it. Unless your just deciding to give a nothing burger and just whining about solutions.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 27, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Please go join a hippie communist commune. I want to see how long you last before you GTFO.


You know I don't find this statement as a personal attack. If being a hippie communist means that I actually care about people's lives beyond them existing and breathing (unlike some pro life stance I know about), then by all means call me that.


----------



## tabzer (Sep 27, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> You are right. I am wrong.
> You asked for an apology from me for being wrong about you never taking a stance on anything.
> I still stand by that.



You need a lesson in nuance.  Mocking you for not apologizing as you postulate higher morality is not the same as wanting something I know not to expect.  Of course you are wrong.



MicroNut99 said:


> All of these personal attacks regarding the Buddhist religion make you a bigot at best.



I'm not attacking Buddhism.  I'm mocking you for pretending to be Buddhist and actively being bad at it.  



LainaGabranth said:


> Yeah tabzer isn't particularly open to ideas not approved by his billionaire overlords



Vote Biden.  Pretend he is a-ok.  Prop his talking points.  "I'm a hardcore edgy leftist."


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> @SScorpio
> Since you're already laughing. Let me ask you. How would you fix the for profit healthcare system killing people. How would you resolve having a for profit military system.
> 
> Since if your laughing, that must mean some other solution that you deem "better" is possible. So I'd like to hear it. Unless your just deciding to give a nothing burger and just whining about solutions.


Just saying free Healthcare for All won't solve the problem. Look at the issues in countries like Canada and UK having long wait lists to get things done.

But since you mentioned the system killing people. One of the first things I'd do is tear down our medical education system. Doctors today read out of a book and follow a developed procedure so they don't have to worry about getting a malpractice suit. Critical thinking is a skill that's very lacking in many graduates today. This leads to many diagnoses being missed, as well as patient concerns being swept aside.

Second, any research carried out with public funds would be made freely available and not hidden behind expensive medical journal subscriptions.

Third, would be drug price caps to prevent companies from charging 20x+ in the US what they charge in other countries. Along with reforms to drugs becoming generics. I'd also say incentivizing companies to make generics rather than letting one company corner a market. And creating a policy on fuckery can make you lose your patent.

I'd have to see what effects the other policies have before recommendations on insurance changes.


As for the for-profit military?

That's easy, you shrink the bloated Federal government, stop being the world police, and have a small military for defense while staying out of conflicts between other countries.




Nothereed said:


> You know I don't find this statement as a personal attack. If being a hippie communist means that I actually care about people's lives beyond them existing and breathing (unlike some pro life stance I know about), then by all means call me that.


No seriously, they exist and you can live in the socialist utopia you keep saying you want. I don't think you'd last very long in one though. They're lots of hard work.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 27, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> The economic model of Communism always looks great. Until they get control, then the dead bodies start piling up, and the useful idiots are the first to go.


All things being equal it's hard to disagree with this.



tabzer said:


> You need a lesson in nuance.  Mocking you for not apologizing as you postulate higher morality is not the same as wanting something I know not to expect.  Of course you are wrong.


You are two-dimensional and need a lesson in humility.
You share nothing of yourself and tear me down with the most personal insults.



tabzer said:


> I'm not attacking Buddhism.  I'm mocking you for pretending to be Buddhist and actively being bad at it.


You asked me about thinking and I offered my answer.
You've done nothing but be a total asshole about it.
Never going back to the original question.

You are a bigot and pretending to use those slurs as nothing more than insults is a lie.
That also makes you a liar.

I've been saying you are disingenuous in all of your arguments.
All of them in no faith and totally insulting.
Call yourself some kind of deep thinking Intellectual and really just a hack.

You deserve to be told to fuck off.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 27, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Just saying free Healthcare for All won't solve the problem. Look at the issues in countries like Canada and UK having look wait lists to get things done.


Agreed.


SScorpio said:


> As for the for-profit military?


We are the worlds #1 war tribe. 
Our #1 export is military arms.


----------



## MicroNut99 (Sep 27, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'm not attacking Buddhism.  I'm mocking you for pretending to be Buddhist and actively being bad at it.


I am not pretending to be good at anything. 
You are pretending to be a good person.

Tabzer you are a Bigot.


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> IDK. When you have (capitalism) willingly charge substantially higher costs on medications like insulin (*for a month, it can be anywhere from 100+ dollars to far more (*700)*)*
> Or a EpiPen, which the average cost is a whopping 700 bucks if your not insured (while in those crazy socialist countries who have removed a for profit healthcare system. Is a mezely 100 bucks for two)
> 
> Oh let's not forget the people dying to the exposed elements. Or the people starving. Or people dying to perfectly treatable illnesses.
> ...


or heres another oneSupliment secuity Incomefor the disabled have such stringent rules on wage earning once you on itpassify's the disabled to the point they cannot work you make more than 60 a month they start fucking with it chopping that income down make $2,000 a month? kiss it good bye meanwhile have you seen rent lately for a 1 bedroom unit? more than $2,000 thats for sure oh and you losse section 8 and medicaid at 2,000 too you'll be homeless real quick


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

MicroNut99 said:


> I've been saying you are disingenuous in all of your arguments.
> All of them in no faith and totally insulting.
> Call yourself some kind of deep thinking Intellectual and really just a hack.


 

It's a wonder people even talk to the guy.


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Nah, that was Reagan, who deserves to burn in hell.


You should watch Dallas Buyers Club. The bad guy in that movie was none other than Dr. Fauci. Even back then, gay people knew who to blame. You just regurgitate corporate media talking points.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2022



The Catboy said:


> What are you on about? Reagan was the reason why the AIDS epidemic got to the point where it did. Blaming all of the world’s wrongs on the Left doesn’t change reality. There is no perfect system but I am pretty sure “the Left” didn’t set up a system where insurance companies can deny payments to mental health services. Since those insurance companies are privately run, that seems pretty not Left to me. It seems more like you just want to move every problem to some imaginary enemy of “The Left.”


You mean the same insurance companies that Obama forced the entire country to purchase their products? How did that work out with Covid and now monkeypox? It's amazing how fascism is blamed on the right but always lands on the left.

The picture here is from the 1980's.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You should watch Dallas Buyers Club. The bad guy in that movie was none other than Dr. Fauci. Even back then, gay people knew who to blame. You just regurgitate corporate media talking points.


Lol said the one regurgitating murdoch talking points. 0 score in awareness.


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Lol said the one regurgitating murdoch talking points. 0 score in awareness.


Ohhhh you got me, lol. Except there wasn't even a Fox News back then. Fox News didn't go on the air until 1996. Another epic leftist failure. Damn, you sure are dumb.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 12, 2022)

Why even still be mad about this? An insurrectionist tried to betray the country he swore to serve and got shitcanned for it. There is nothing bad about this.


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## MariArch (Oct 12, 2022)

How can a citizen be withheld from being elected into office? Seems quite ridiculous to me. If one garners enough votes the people’s will should be allowed.


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## Nothereed (Oct 12, 2022)

MariArch said:


> How can a citizen be withheld from being elected into office? Seems quite ridiculous to me. If one garners enough votes the people’s will should be allowed.


14th admendemnt.
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or *given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof*. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability*."*
section 3 of the 14th ademndment.

Additionally Couy Griffin is not a private citizen he's been the county commissioner for District 2 of Otero County, in New Mexico since 2019.


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## MariArch (Oct 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> 14th admendemnt treason clause. I answered your question. Specifically the inserection part and giving aid to an enemy.


Who defines enemy? How can one be a citizen and also an enemy. If citizens vote for them, then obviously they don’t see them as an enemy. Again, it doesn’t make any sense why you can arbitrarily decide that someone isn’t eligible not to just hold office because they’re an ‘enemy’, but to not be voted on by other citizens to hold that seat.


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Per your article, he was convicted of misdemeanor for entering the Capitol grounds, but he never entered the capitol. How does that equate to insurrection if he was never charged with the crime of insurrection?

	Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2022



MariArch said:


> Who defines enemy? How can one be a citizen and also an enemy. If citizens vote for them, then obviously they don’t see them as an enemy. Again, it doesn’t make any sense why you can arbitrarily decide that someone isn’t eligible not to just hold office because they’re an ‘enemy’, but to not be voted on by other citizens to hold that seat.


I'm still searching for the connection between misdemeanor trespassing and felony insurrection. There's some crazy logic going on here.


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## Nothereed (Oct 12, 2022)

MariArch said:


> How can one be a citizen and also an enemy.


*cough*


Nothereed said:


> Additionally Couy Griffin is not a private citizen he's been the county commissioner for District 2 of Otero County, in New Mexico since 2019.




	Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2022



TraderPatTX said:


> Per your article, he was convicted of misdemeanor for entering the Capitol grounds, but he never entered the capitol. How does that equate to insurrection if he was never charged with the crime of insurrection?


Boy do I love repeating myself and the article.


Nothereed said:


> *given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof*


Had you read the article or did any little research you would of found the exact reason why. Sorry that my early accidental post sends because gbatemp bumps up ads and makes me click send instead of making readjustments. So I then have to fire hot stop edit to fix the problem. And if I just say "snipped" I've seen more than plenty of snarky comments from you about me snipping my posts.


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2022
> 
> 
> Boy do I love repeating myself and the article.
> ...


I did read the article. I copy and pasted what he was convicted of from the article itself.

Now instead of being a pretentious dick, explain how misdemeanor trespass equates to felony insurrection.

I also could care less what gbatemp's site does to you. Learn to overcome obstacles and quit complaining.


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## Nothereed (Oct 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I did read the article. I copy and pasted what he was convicted of from the article itself.
> 
> Now instead of being a pretentious dick, explain how misdemeanor trespass equates to felony insurrection.
> 
> I also could care less what gbatemp's site does to you. Learn to overcome obstacles and quit complaining.


If only you could stop being pretentious. Like I said, had you done any additional research this wouldn't be a problem. But since you can't seem to do that, looks go look at another article.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/06/jud...rs-cowboys-for-trump-founder-from-office.html




Simply put, he took an oath, he violated that oath. He acted and was part of jan6th, even if it was just "tresspassing" a goverment official (not a civilian) should definitely have known better than to show up on a coup attempt and actively support it.

And if you done even more research say...
https://www.citizensforethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/D101CV202200473-griffin.pdf
pull up the exact transcription. you would of got the following.
Edit: changing the image for a more specific part.


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> If only you could stop being pretentious. Like I said, had you done any additional research this wouldn't be a problem. But since you can't seem to do that, looks go look at another article.
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/06/jud...rs-cowboys-for-trump-founder-from-office.html
> View attachment 331568
> 
> ...


Then why was he only convicted of trespassing instead of insurrection? Was it proven that Griffin was even involved in planning the events that happened that day because the story has always been that Trump initiated it with his speech that morning. Has that narrative changed now?


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## Nothereed (Oct 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Then why was he only convicted of trespassing instead of insurrection?


historically getting a insurrection charge is a charge rarely brought up.


TraderPatTX said:


> Was it proven that Griffin


This is a what if. You don't need to prove that, again, had you done idk, *reading *you would of understood why he was disqualified and barred via the 14th. Since you clearly don't want to read, I'll go ahead and highlight it for you. and then scribble a little circle on the very important part.






It's spelled out pretty damn clear "_*incites*_, *sets on foot, assists, or engages in ANY REBELLION OR INSURRECTION AGAINST THE AUTHORITY OF THE UNITED STATES"*
Reminder, they actively tried to prevent the *authority *of the United States federal government to certify the election; the entire point was to stop the election from going through.
He was one of the people who was actively _inciting_ it, spouting the same talking points. And he had set foot and assisted them. And by extension, gave comfort and aid.


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> historically getting a insurrection charge is a charge rarely brought up.
> 
> This is a what if. You don't need to prove that, again, had you done idk, *reading *you would of understood why he was disqualified and barred via the 14th. Since you clearly don't want to read, I'll go ahead and highlight it for you. and then scribble a little circle on the very important part.
> View attachment 331573
> ...


It was never proven that he incited an insurrection. It has to be proven in a court of law that he knew beforehand that what he was walking into, while the Capitol Police opened barricades and doors, was indeed an insurrection. So far, this judge's decision does not prove this, which is why he was only charged and convicted of trespassing.

So once again, how does trespassing equate to insurrection? If you don't know the answer, just say so.


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## Nothereed (Oct 12, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> It was never proven


I'm out, if you want to read the court cases yourself and develop a brain, you can. I can't take the extreme amounts of copium your producing at trying to weasel your way out of this. final statement:


Nothereed said:


> It's spelled out pretty damn clear "_*incites*_, *sets on foot, assists, or engages in ANY REBELLION OR INSURRECTION AGAINST THE AUTHORITY OF THE UNITED STATES"*


ahem to quote myself here *"sets on foot"*


Nothereed said:


> And he had set foot


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I'm out, if you want to read the court cases yourself and develop a brain, you can. I can't take the extreme amounts of copium your producing at trying to weasel your way out of this. final statement:
> 
> ahem to quote myself here *"sets on foot"*


He would have to know beforehand. When he arrived, it was a peaceful protest. I'm sorry if my questions are too hard for you, but a judge cannot condemn a person of insurrection without evidence of foreknowledge.

You are aware that he didn't even go inside the Capitol building, right? How did he sets on foot in an insurrection if his feet never set foot inside the building?


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 12, 2022)

MariArch said:


> How can a citizen be withheld from being elected into office? Seems quite ridiculous to me. If one garners enough votes the people’s will should be allowed.


Good argument, I think a mass murderer should never be barred from running for office.
(This is your brain on conservatism)


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