# Nintendo: piracy not behind poor sales



## Forstride (Oct 9, 2010)

Nintendo has refused to attribute low sales of Wii and DS games solely to piracy.

In a recent investor call, CEO Satoru Iwata explained, "I do not think we should attribute bad software sales solely to piracy.

"Even with piracy, as long as we can create products which can attract attention from many consumers and which can greatly entertain them, that software can make it to the number one position of the hit software sales chart.

"So, we would like to consider it from both perspectives simultaneously. It is true there is always the influence of piracy, but it is important for us to increase the number of our consumers who are willing to shell out their money to purchase our products."

Maybe he's onto something. The phenomenal Super Mario Galaxy 2 shifted 4.09 million copies in its first five weeks on sale. Pokémon Black/White, which recently secured a perfect 40/40 from Famitsu, is rapidly approaching a similar figure in Japan alone.

Then again, maybe he's not. The excellent Metroid: Other M failed to trouble the UK all formats top 10 when it launched last month.

Iwata went on to re-emphasise that Nintendo will be making new efforts to tackle piracy on its forthcoming handheld, the 3DS.

"Of course, as a responsibility of the platform holder, we will tackle piracy. For example, when we launch new hardware, such as Nintendo 3DS, it is a good opportunity to beef up the countermeasures, and we are actually working on that now."[/p]




*Source*


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## BloodyFlame (Oct 9, 2010)

I don't really mind the fact that they are trying to beef up anti-piracy on the 3DS. Although I am a pirate, I will support Nintendo.


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## TM2-Megatron (Oct 9, 2010)

At least someone admits the truth.  Piracy probably isn't responsible for all that many lost sales.  99% of pirates wouldn't buy 99% of the games they pirate; and many people who pirate the mediocre games still buy the AAA titles and those from their favourite franchises.


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## DigitalDeviant (Oct 9, 2010)

To be honest If I saw a game I really wanted, from a collector point of view, I would buy it. On the other hand most games are not worth it, and it is quite tempting to just download and play from the comfort of your home.


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## Knyaz Vladimir (Oct 9, 2010)

TM2-Megatron said:
			
		

> At least someone admits the truth.  Piracy probably isn't responsible for all that many lost sales.  99% of pirates wouldn't buy 99% of the games they pirate; and many people who pirate the mediocre games still buy the AAA titles and those from their favourite franchises.



Or dead titles that you can't find. I'd pay for RGC and Hatsworth, I just don't have money right now nor can I find it here.


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## Rasas (Oct 9, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> Then again, maybe he's not. The *excellent Metroid: Other M* failed to trouble the UK all formats top 10 when it launched last month.



Surprised they called Metroid: Other M excellent but I suppose some people like it.


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## geoflcl (Oct 9, 2010)

Oh, Nintendo. Sure, their view on piracy is flawed and deliberate, but at least they aren't full-on blaming them for every little poor sales figure.

It looks as if good ol' Nintendo hasn't lost their drive to please the consumer with fun, masterful games. And for that, I love them.


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## DaMummy (Oct 9, 2010)

if it wasnt for piracy, i wouldnt own a dreamcast, psp, gamecube, 2x wii, 2x ds, and soon a ps3 cause i can pirate now


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## DeMoN (Oct 9, 2010)

Finally they're talking sense.  I always laugh when someone assumes that every download equates to a lost sale.


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## Bladexdsl (Oct 9, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Then again, maybe he's not. The excellent Metroid: Other M failed to trouble the UK all formats top 10 when it launched last month.


maybe cos other M is just a bad game?


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## nintendoom (Oct 9, 2010)

NONONO........ Nintendo just doesnt know that here in the philippines,...... all you can see is PIRATED WII Games/... execpt from other stores where all are ;legit....


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## Rydian (Oct 9, 2010)

pokeman said:
			
		

> NONONO........ Nintendo just doesnt know that here in the philippines,...... all you can see is PIRATED WII Games/... execpt from other stores where all are ;legit....


'Cause everybody knows the Philippines is the entire world.




Wait...


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## RoMee (Oct 9, 2010)

piracy is just a small part in their poor sales,  most of the blames goes to them for ignoring the hardcore and concentrating on the grandma's and casuals..


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## DSGamer64 (Oct 9, 2010)

Poor sales generally means the games suck, someone should tell 3rd party developers to step it the hell up with their products because Wii 3rd party games have pretty much been garbage since launch time with very few great games outside of those made by Nintendo. I honestly buy the games that are worth buying, mainly because waiting to get around AP and stuff on flash cards takes a while and I want to get right into it, even if the game is dumped a few days early, better to have a working version of a great game then a buggy bootleg.


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## referencer (Oct 9, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> Maybe he's onto something. The phenomenal Super Mario Galaxy 2 shifted 4.09 million copies in its first five weeks on sale. Pokémon Black/White, which recently secured a perfect 40/40 from Famitsu, is rapidly approaching a similar figure in Japan alone.
> 
> Then again, maybe he's not. The excellent Metroid: Other M failed to trouble the UK all formats top 10 when it launched last month.


Two good games get a lot of popularity, while one terrible game fails. Why would the terrible game do worse? _WHY, IT'S ALL PIRACY'S FAULT_.

At least Nintendo's taking a position of more sense than the article writer.


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## monkat (Oct 9, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> *It is true there is always the influence of piracy*, but it is important for us to increase the number of our consumers who are willing to shell out their money to purchase our products.
> 
> QUOTEPiracy Not Behind Poor Sales



The topic is pretty misleading.


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## trumpet-205 (Oct 9, 2010)

Nintendo really needs to stop third party developers from developing shovelware.  I believe number one reason attribute to poor sales is these shovelware.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 9, 2010)

Maybe if you wouldn't shove a Seal of Approval to every game that passes your glance,  MAYBE poor sales wouldn't be so much of an issue.

I REMEMBER WHEN THE OFFICIAL NINTENDO SEAL OF APPROVAL ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING!!!


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## Midna (Oct 9, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Maybe if you wouldn't shove a Seal of Approval to every game that passes your glance,  MAYBE poor sales wouldn't be so much of an issue.
> 
> I REMEMBER WHEN THE OFFICIAL NINTENDO SEAL OF APPROVAL ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING!!!


While it's true when that seal was in place, we had less shovelware. But those two aren't really related. The seal just meant it wasn't buggy, glitchy or broken.


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## Kwartel (Oct 9, 2010)

trumpet-205 said:
			
		

> Nintendo really needs to stop third party developers from developing shovelware.  I believe number one reason attribute to poor sales is these shovelware.


This. But that's what they said in some sort of way


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## Maikel Steneker (Oct 9, 2010)

Metroid: Other M is not a good example. It's relatively hard to pirate due to it using a dual layer DVD. You'd assume that Metroid: Other M sells a lot more than SMG2, but it doesn't.

What Iwata says here is the thruth. Pirates will always hurt your sales, but good games sell anyway.


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## dinofan01 (Oct 9, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
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Not really. A few lost sales does not equal poor sales. The poor sales is from other factors and Iwata is saying the major other factor is quality.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Oct 9, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Maybe if you wouldn't shove a Seal of Approval to every game that passes your glance,  MAYBE poor sales wouldn't be so much of an issue.
> 
> I REMEMBER WHEN THE OFFICIAL NINTENDO SEAL OF APPROVAL ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING!!!


That's a misinterpretation of the seal. The seal never told you whether a game was good or not, it just told you that nintendo have approved it. Even if it did mean that a game was supposed to be good, they could still put it on every game, it's their opinion whether or not a game is good.


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## BlueStar (Oct 9, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Maybe if you wouldn't shove a Seal of Approval to every game that passes your glance,  MAYBE poor sales wouldn't be so much of an issue.
> 
> I REMEMBER WHEN THE OFFICIAL NINTENDO SEAL OF APPROVAL ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING!!!



The standard of unplayable garbage released for the NES far, far surpasses even DS shovelware.  Some NES games could barely even be classified as a game they were so broken.  Go and play Captain Planet, Dr Jeykll and Mr Hyde, Muscle and Super Pitfall and tell me the seal ever meant something.  Muscle didn't even have _sound_.  The game was silent for christ's sake!


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## Maz7006 (Oct 9, 2010)

this is nintendo's way of saying: yeah guys so we really dunno why we let the DS fall into shovelware, which has made it such a crap handheld lately with almost no games, but not to worry things will change with the 3DS 

... come on, piracy doesn't have an impact on nintendo/let alone the gaming industry 

millions are lost each year to it 

lets say that everyone has download some odd 200 roms ... thats a shit load of money.


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## Kwartel (Oct 9, 2010)

Maz7006 said:
			
		

> this is nintendo's way of saying: yeah guys so we really dunno why we let the DS fall into shovelware, which has made it such a crap handheld lately with almost no games, but not to worry things will change with the 3DS
> 
> ... come on, piracy doesn't have an impact on nintendo/let alone the gaming industry
> 
> ...


But would you bought them all when you didn't pirated them?
Besides 2009 was the first time in years that their yearly profit didn't grow.

Source


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## BlueStar (Oct 9, 2010)

So called 'shovelware' is not a reason for declining DS sales, it's often the thing which keeps it going.  Imagine/Horse titles sell well and the consumers of those titles rarely pirate them.  And who cares if the platform is making games for other audiences?  There's an absolute ton of fantastic games on the DS and no-one forces you to play the games aimed at 12 year old girls with a horse fetish.  The PS2 was the same, millions of crap games, hundreds of good ones.  It's what happens when a system is popular, deal with it.  Or would it be better for the DS to be like the Dreamcast, a small amount of good titles that aren't enough to prop up the system on their own?


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## shakirmoledina (Oct 9, 2010)

most probably they will concentrate on quality rather than piracy but they have an initial move to put AP on 3DS
it is very interesting that SMG2 scored such high scores while if u check torrents or filesharing sites or even dolphin emu users, many have an SMG2 (most probably downloaded) copy which they want to play
maybe 100k ppl did not buy the game though 30k could have done so


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## Canonbeat234 (Oct 9, 2010)

Nintendo is forgetting one important thing about the poor sales...prediction. You can't expect sells to be in the millions each time an all-star game comes out. It depends on the customers interest and economic cashflow. Pokemon will always sell no matter how many pirates d/l the game and plays them. When Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft expects a game to shell out in the millions it usually don't turn out that way. It's not written in stone that each game release is going to sell over 5 million units. However, despite these poor sale strategics it doesn't stop developers to improve from their shortcomings. The main target of poor sales is distributing 3rd party games. 

Even if casual gamers were to buy those kind of games, it doesn't stray from the gamers who knows a bad game when they see one. Gamers in general require a taste in certain games and shovelware isn't one of them. I bet you that not all casual gamers buy those shovelware games. Despite of this, some developers think its ok to spew out those horrid games that takes up space in the gaming library. Out of ALL the Nintendo games from the DS section, there are like 50-79% of those games sitting there on those shelves. In majority of those units not selling, its hurting the developers and not Nintendo. No I'm not saying go buy shovelware, this just shows that most gamers are willing to pay 50-60 dollar games due to its quality and not quanity. 

SEGA screw themselves in the foot each time they push out a half-ass Sonic game that most Sonic fans knows that SEGA can do better. In the end, SEGA chooses to be lax and distribute whatever game that can think of and slap the word 'Sonic' on them


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 9, 2010)

Canonbeat234 said:
			
		

> You can't expect sells to be in the millions each time an all-star game comes out.



Um, yes you can. Even Nintendo's "worst" seller that they thought would sell a bagillion copies, Wii Music, sold 2 million copies. Nintendo doesn't release Mario games thinking they'll only sell a few. Microsoft doesn't release Halo games thinking they'll only sell a few. Activision doesn't release Call of Duty games thinking they'll only sell a few.

As for Sonic he just doesn't sell as well because his popularity plummeted. Mario essentially won the platformer war and Sega lost the hardware war as well. They had no mascot to flagship their consoles and Sonic essentially became just another third party character. A lot of people know who he is but he's not nearly as big a household name as Mario is.


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## Wintrale (Oct 9, 2010)

So what Nintendo are saying is this...  "Piracy isn't as much of an issue because we can always focus exclusively on casual titles that the pirates won't even want to pirate, instead of the ground-breaking titles that cater for both hardcore and casual gamers. We still make lots of money, potentially even more than before, and only one segment of our user base suffers."


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## Canonbeat234 (Oct 9, 2010)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Canonbeat234 said:
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Way to go McGuild maybe SEGA should get rid of their mascot and focus on alternative games indeed.


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## cwstjdenobs (Oct 9, 2010)

I've always thought on-line cheating was a bigger concern for Nintendo than pirates. I'm not saying it's not a priority, just not a top one. They seem to put a lot of work into the initial design but once/if it's broken put no real effort into fixing it. It might also have something to do with the fact that pirates generally spend a lot more money on things than non pirates


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 9, 2010)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

> I've always thought on-line cheating was a bigger concern for Nintendo than pirates. I'm not saying it's not a priority, just not a top one. They seem to put a lot of work into the initial design but once/if it's broken put no real effort into fixing it. It might also have something to do with the fact that pirates generally spend a lot more money on things than non pirates



Online cheating doesn't affect money flow for them so it doesn't matter. If it's a community complaint it goes near the bottom of their list, if it's a problem that involves them maybe getting less profit then it's at the top of their list.


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## Fishaman P (Oct 9, 2010)

If I see a game I think I might like, I download it.  If I like it, I BUY IT.  If not, I delete it.


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## cwstjdenobs (Oct 9, 2010)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Online cheating doesn't affect money flow for them so it doesn't matter.



Yes it does. It's cheaper to make a fun online multi-player game than a good single player one. For a start you don't need to put as much money into AI design, you don't need as many levels, or any where near as much design work putting into them. If people think there is no chance of playing a game without a bunch of cheats ruining it they won't buy the cheaper to make online games.


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## DS1 (Oct 9, 2010)

Says Nintendo, the company that absolutely kills in console sales. If they were selling Wiis and DSs at a loss (like Sony was for a while), you'd hear a different story.


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## RaaTheGodEater (Oct 9, 2010)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> So what Nintendo are saying is this...  "Piracy isn't as much of an issue because we can always focus exclusively on casual titles that the pirates won't even want to pirate, instead of the ground-breaking titles that cater for both hardcore and casual gamers. We still make lots of money, potentially even more than before, and only one segment of our user base suffers."


You're just making your own baseless assumptions here. The article even says that the "ground breaking titles that cater for both hardcore and casual gamers" (in this case Mario Galaxy 2 and Pokemon BW) are selling like crazy and Nintendo attributes that to the quality that they put into the games.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 9, 2010)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

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Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Pokemon Black and White are far from groundbreaking. SMG was groundbreaking but SMG 2 was just a bunch of levels that played like SMG (even if it was still awesome). Pokemon Black and White is still using a decade-old gameplay formula with little else changed outside of making the combat look slightly fancier (not by much though) and some minor additions like every Pokemon game before it has done. Even then, SMG 2 and Pokemon B/W won't sell nearly as much as far less enjoyable games like Wii Play (which sucked but sold a bagillion copies) or Nintendogs (again, sucked but sold a bagillion copies).


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## cwstjdenobs (Oct 9, 2010)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Mario Kart Wii has its fair share of cheaters but it still sold over 22 million copies.
> 
> Nintendo's expertise is not in online gaming anyway. It's in single player or local multiplayer gaming. The only good Nintendo game that comes to mind that had a well-structured and enjoyable online was Mario Kart Wii (don't say SSBB had good online, it sucked online).



Can't really argue with you on that point, but MK:Wii is the game that I was thinking of that put a lot of people off of online play on the Wii. 

And you seem to be forgetting third party devs. A lot of them do specialise in online. And they don't just pay for the SDKs. They have to get the DVDs pressed by Nintendo or a licensee, get the cases from Ninty (all money in Nintendos pocket even if the game flops), a percentage of the sale price of every copy sold (not the profits), a percentage of the sale price of every DLC/microtransaction, a cut for using their payment system on top of that, a cut for hosting the files on NUSD and probably bandwidth costs as well. It also wouldn't surprise me if games/apps had to use Nintendo servers, or at least go through them for the initial connection. Well except for maybe the streaming video services (iPlayer or Netflix or whatever).


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## Zetta_x (Oct 10, 2010)

Like I have said numerous times over the course of joining GBAtemp,

Without piracy, there would not be as many gamers. Even though they may lose some sales, they have netted in so many more people to make some of the differences up. Take for an example of the PS3, do you know how many more people bought PS3's since jailbreaking techniques? Sure Sony may lose some money, but they sure got a fuck ton more people to play the PS3 thus raising the popularity of the system and its games.


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## antwill (Oct 10, 2010)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Like I have said numerous times over the course of joining GBAtemp,
> 
> Without piracy, there would not be as many gamers. Even though they may lose some sales, they have netted in so many more people to make some of the differences up. Take for an example of the PS3, do you know how many more people bought PS3's since jailbreaking techniques? Sure Sony may lose some money, but they sure got a fuck ton more people to play the PS3 thus raising the popularity of the system and its games.


And like any smart person knows, they are a business, so we all know Sony would prefer to make rather lose money as you put it. I doubt they or any other company thinks "Oh great, more people are buying [insert console name]'s to pirate games on, we should really go rub this in the face of our competitors."


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## Zetta_x (Oct 10, 2010)

I argue that if Sony can keep in business in two years and continue to maintain great shape, the raise in popularity with PS3's will earn them greater revenue in a few years. When a system increases in popularity, this brings incentive to various other developers to join the bandwagon. Look how many developers are willing to jump on the 3DS bandwagon, the hype for it is amazing part of which is all the popularity the DS has (by pirates or not).

I am not going to even attempt to define every factor piracy has on a console, but it is evident that piracy leads to popularity on a system and the greater the popularity MAY lead to increased profits.

An example is that many of my friends bought a wii system, 4 wii remots, HD's, rented various wii games (which benefits nintendo), bought a nintendo DS + flashkit, participate in many discussion boards with Nintendo products, and many other things. We aren't just talking about 1 or 2 people, I'm talking more like 5-8 people did the above just because of piracy and wouldn't have without it. If piracy was not available on that system, they would not even be anticipating the release of black and white for US.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 10, 2010)

So what drives video gaming? If it was hardware, then I'd agree with you, but it isn't hardware. It's software, and in either circumstance with a pirate and hardware, being bought or not, software wouldn't get bought. Software can't be used without hardware, but hardware is not worth buying without software running on it. By pirating, hardware will get sold, but not necessarily software, and if software sales are low, then companies won't feel the need to (or just plain can't) continue developing them. Nintendo, Sony, and MS may be well off, but that's because they aren't dealing with only software (and Sony/MS aren't strictly working on video game stuff). You and your friends may be helping Nintendo out by buying their hardware, but all the stuff you've pirated isn't helping out those other companies that made them.


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## epicCreations.or (Oct 10, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Imagine/Horse titles sell well and the consumers of those titles rarely pirate them.  And who cares if the platform is making games for other audiences?  There's an absolute ton of fantastic games on the DS and *no-one forces you to play the games aimed at 12 year old girls with a horse fetish.*


I lol'd. SO HARD. 

...considering my best friend from elementary and intermediate was one of these people.


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## Mantis41 (Oct 10, 2010)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Canonbeat234 said:
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The controls in the Wii Sonic Games are broken. Take Unleashed. The game was promising in the early stages but by the time you got to the later levels the clumsy unforgiving controls were making the game unplayable. My boy and I stopped playing after being forced to restart levels over and over due to clumsy controls when attempting to jump from the moving poles. 

I would much rather play games with shit visuals as long as the game play is silky smooth. A lot of developers these days seem to be more interested in visuals than they do in the game play or controls. I guess for the average smuck the game will be purchased on the visual appeal alone. For me the controls in a game will make or break it, the visuals are secondary. My son is the same, if he finds a game annoying to play he will not go back to it. 

I have pirated a lot of games for various consoles and have found that my Son and I only play a handful from each. These are the ones I have purchased. I feel sorry for consumers who are forced to buy games off the shelf. I downloaded Batman Arkham I while back because I liked the sound of the game and the reviews were favourable. I played it for about an hour and hated it and have never gone back. That would have bee £38 wasted. My son tried a demo of Sonic and Sega and liked it. I downloaded the game only to find he hated it. We found the track design horrible and the game a very frustrating experience. That would have been another £35 out the window. We had a similar experience with my Sims racing. 

As you can see, reviews and demos will not always help a purchase. The game can seem ok in the demo only to go to pot a little further on. Shitty controls will usually not cause major issues until later levels. 

Why do I pirate? I don’t like and can’t afford to waste money on shit.


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## iNFiNiTY (Oct 10, 2010)

The lower attach rate and game sales for Wii/DS is pretty obviously because they marketed heavily to an audience that doesn't even buy games. The kind of random people who never bought a system or games before. And now the novelty has worn off (especially the Wii) they are not the type of people who are going to go out and buy more games for it. Metroid wouldn't sell well in the UK anyway because its simply not a particular popular franchise here.

Also it's not surprising Nintendo would come out and say this, because in their position they would never admit piracy was a huge problem as they don't want to give a bad impression to third party publishers/developers who hate releasing games on such poorly secured systems. In reality they do think it is a problem, particularly for DS, or they wouldn't be constantly updating the DS protection which is now standard in the SDK. And they wouldn't take aggressive action against the R4. So in this case their actions don't match their words.

Also i dunno why every time piracy and sales is mentioned tons of people have to write big essays up on their personal justifications for pirating games. I mean really how many times does this get debated, and it's always the exact same points. Who are you trying to aim these justifications at? Others on the site already know the reasons because we've heard it hundreds of times. It's really boring and pointless now.



			
				Zetta_x said:
			
		

> I argue that if Sony can keep in business in two years and continue to maintain great shape, the raise in popularity with PS3's will earn them greater revenue in a few years. When a system increases in popularity, this brings incentive to various other developers to join the bandwagon. Look how many developers are willing to jump on the 3DS bandwagon, the hype for it is amazing part of which is all the popularity the DS has (by pirates or not).



I think it's a pretty shallow point of view. One of Sony's big successes and something very attractive to 3rd party developers was the fact it was a secure system. There has not been any extreme rise in console sales after the PSJB and clones came out, so they didn't benefit from it in any way.


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## Mantis41 (Oct 10, 2010)

iNFiNiTY said:
			
		

> Also i dunno why every time piracy and sales is mentioned tons of people have to write big essays up on their personal justifications for pirating games. I mean really how many times does this get debated, and it's always the exact same points. Who are you trying to aim these justifications at? Others on the site already know the reasons because we've heard it hundreds of times. It's really boring and pointless now.


You would be suprised to find out who listens in on our little conversations.


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## antwill (Oct 11, 2010)

Mantis41 said:
			
		

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And they think anyone reading is going to think, "Oh they're breaking the law, but it's okay as they have self-entitlement issues."?


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## Mantis41 (Oct 11, 2010)

antwill said:
			
		

> Mantis41 said:
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No of course not illegal is illegal but, it may get the following messages across: 

a) People are sick of paying for crap games.
b) Console manufacturers should should take a greater interest and control over the games that are released on their consoles. 
c) Stop blaming falling sales on piracy, its like a get out of jail free card. Our games are fuken useless but, oooh! look!..... points the finger at piracy._ (I think this one at least is starting to sink in)_ Billions! Where is this supposed money coming from? I certainly don't have it.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 11, 2010)

A crap game by the opinion of actual gamers doesn't get bought or pirated. If they pirate it and actually keep it, then it's not considered crap.


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