# Tom McShea responds to Zelda review criticism



## KingVamp (Nov 19, 2011)

> _*Your opinion of Skyward Sword's controls were very different than those of other reviewers. Why is that? What is your opinion of motion control in general?*_
> 
> _As anyone who has followed me should know, controls are the single most important element of a game to me. If they aren't responsive all the time, I get frustrated, because it's a problem that could have been averted had the developers been more conscious of the experience they were creating. In the case of Skyward Sword, the controls function as they should most of the time, but that's not enough. When I swing and it doesn't register, or I point toward the screen but Link looks at the ground, I get angry. Nintendo usually sets the standard for controls, so I'm shocked they would release a game in this state._
> 
> ...



Source


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 19, 2011)

The typical man who prefers his own ways rather than asking for directions.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Nov 19, 2011)

Sounds about right. Controls are fine for me, this game should have a 10/10 if it were me.

inb4Guild bitches about controls and Nintendo being bad.


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## chyyran (Nov 19, 2011)

He shoulda' read the instruction manual.

Most of us here who have played it already didn't even need the manual to understand the controls though.

Did he even pay attention to the tutorial dialogues?


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## Windaga (Nov 19, 2011)

I played it a little while ago - I didn't have any problem with the controls at all (and the file I was using had all of the weapons, so I had a chance to use them all.) Did he have a busted remote or something? Because the whole registering and looking at the floor thing- I've never had that happen to me. I like the fact that it doesn't rely on the sensor bar and that you can center the pointer - it'll make it a whole lot easier for me with my setup when I get the game.

But it's cool that he stands by his word. I don't care for reviews and reviewers, but I can get with him not changing his score because of pressure and what not.


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## RupeeClock (Nov 19, 2011)

"_Ultimately, you point at the screen no matter which method the controller is using"_

That's STILL wrong. You don't need to point at the screen once it's calibrated.


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## Ergo (Nov 19, 2011)

Normally I stay clear of these sorts of things (opinions being, well, opinions) but I'm actually inclined to say that he was, indeed, doing it wrong, which pretty much invalidates the entire review.


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## KingVamp (Nov 19, 2011)

DiscostewSM said:


> The typical man who prefers his own ways rather than asking for directions.


 Yep and basically saying "I'm right and you are wrong."

[yt]QEge_2Vuft0[/yt]


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## RupeeClock (Nov 19, 2011)

Apparently there's also been a controversy about the Star Wars: The Old Republic on Gamespot.
I've heard something like they issued a 5.5 review on the site, but later took it down leaving a placeholder 0.0 score (as evidence that a review was put online, then removed)

Seriously though, Gamespot can suck it, they're the worst of the worst these days. Nobody likes them.


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## Xuphor (Nov 19, 2011)

Maybe I'm missing something, but the bold is the question the questioners asked, italics are supposedly the bad reviewer, and the regular text is commentary from Gamespot, right?



			
				commentator said:
			
		

> there is no need to point your remote at the screen


You HAVE to in order to aim the Bow, Slingshot, beetle, and a number of other items.


			
				commentator said:
			
		

> No-one is at all able to make out what he is referring to by recentering his view


Fi explains it clearly, you press the down D-Pad button to recenter the cursor once it goes off allignment. I need to recenter it a lot, but it's not a bad problem imo.


			
				commentator said:
			
		

> its ridiculously obvious that he is pointing the remote when he should be drawing it like a bow.


You aim by pointing the wii-mote at the screen, and pull the nunchuck back like a bowstring.
[quote="corrected" reviewer]aiming was handled by the infared sensor, when it's actually controlled by the gyroscopes[/quote]
What? Unplug the IR Sensor, aiming won't work at all. Same goes for item selection.



So, am I missing something? I must be.... The guy that's talking in regular text (not bold nor italics) is 100% wrong.

*Someone help me, I'm so confused....*


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## Ergo (Nov 19, 2011)

The shrug in that video is comic genius.


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## Valwin (Nov 19, 2011)

this proof tha gamespo is not good for reviews


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## AceWarhead (Nov 19, 2011)

Valwin said:


> this proof tha gamespo*t* is not good for reviews


Well, sometimes, they do.



Xuphor said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but the bold is the question the questioners asked, italics are supposedly the bad reviewer, and the regular text is commentary from Gamespot, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What? Unplug the IR Sensor, aiming won't work at all. Same goes for item selection.



So, am I missing something? I must be.... The guy that's talking in regular text (not bold nor italics) is 100% wrong.

*Someone help me, I'm so confused....*
[/quote]
He's an idiot.( not you.)


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## smile72 (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't trust gamespot for reviews in the first place. This just gives me more reasons to evade it in general.


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## KingVamp (Nov 19, 2011)

Xuphor said:


> *snip



Whether than point, hold the wiimote like a bow.

Pretty much like this.


Pointing at the screen, does the aim go exactly were you want it?

I read somewhere that all actions are done by motion not ir. Got to find it tho.


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## Xuphor (Nov 19, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> Xuphor said:
> 
> 
> > *snip
> ...



Holding the wimote like Robin does in that video doesn't work right when holding it like that for me, I need to hold point the IR part of the wiimote at the screen for it to work right.

So maybe, possibly, this Tom guy is having the same controller issues I am (First party wiimote with Wiimotion plus NOT built in, first party nunchuck), including the other stuff he mentioned that I found to be accurate that no one else does (aiming at the floor, I.E.).......
Even so, I wouldn't rate the game a 7.5, I'd still give it at least a 9/10.


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## haflore (Nov 19, 2011)

smile72 said:


> I don't trust gamespot for reviews in the first place. This just gives me more reasons to evade it in general.


I agree completely, they used to be a reasonable source for reviews though. 
I remember when they were my go-to guys for this sort of thing, now I wait for REAL critics to weigh in.


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## Hyro-Sama (Nov 19, 2011)

Gamespot doesn't even deserve to mentioned on this site. They are pure shit.


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 19, 2011)

> _In the case of Skyward Sword, the controls function as they should most of the time, but that's not enough. When I swing and it doesn't register, or I point toward the screen but Link looks at the ground, I get angry. Nintendo usually sets the standard for controls, so I'm shocked they would release a game in this state._



his remote must be fucked than cos i never once had a problem with the sword not swinging where i wanted it or link looking at the ground!!! and whats with this bow bs just point the remote an the screen and push A it works!  what a fuck-tard


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## Giga_Gaia (Nov 19, 2011)

Actually, he is a little right. The controls for Skyward Sword are just downright horrible. I have never seen anything so horribly done. There is no word mankind has or can even invent to describe this **** to be honest.

Nintendo shouldn't have used Motion Plus. Or they can do it, but they should have given us the option of Gamecube controller.

No offense, people says the game is harder than the others, but I doubt it actually is. Everytime I died, it was because of those terrible controls. Give me a gamecube controller and I'd have died like once.

Also, why make us center the damn camera all the time? This is actually another thing they did wrong. It could have easily been made to always stay centered.


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## Joe88 (Nov 19, 2011)

why cant they create a regular zelda game instead of filling it with gimmicks...
unlike TP, there is no choice


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## emigre (Nov 19, 2011)

So much whining about one review...


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

suprgamr232 said:


> inb4Guild bitches about controls and Nintendo being bad.



The controls are bad. Everything else is rather decent minus a ton of fluff. Honestly, cut out the fluff, make the controls work, and you've got the best Zelda game period. Level designs are great although it feels like a lot of puzzles are more obtuse than difficult.

Still, the controls are bad.

EDIT: Also, whenever we have a dissenter amongst reviewers, everyone cries. Same thing happened with Sonic Generations. I approached this game with an open mind, read up on my posts and you'll find that I've had positive feelings on the game minus story and art, but I'm honestly getting let down.


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## Deleted User (Nov 19, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> suprgamr232 said:
> 
> 
> > inb4Guild bitches about controls and Nintendo being bad.
> ...


Nothing is wrong with the controls. They work perfect.
Edit: outside of having to press down on the D-pad ( Takes less than a second, so it cant really break immersion) to center aiming, there is really nothing out of place.

I'm willing to bet most of the people that cry about WM+ on this game have some sort of defective controller, or play like they're having a seizure.


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## prowler (Nov 19, 2011)

emigre said:


> So much whining about one review...


I know, it's not even the review as a whole, just the fucking comment he made on the controls.

Fucking hell people, nobody should get this upset over a review.

Edit: And while I'm bitching, what kind of title is that? I was like Tom McShea who?
What?
That Gamespot review?
WHO CARES?


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

brandonspikes said:


> Nothing is wrong with the controls. They work perfect.



You seem to forgot to support this argument at all.

As an actual user of the game, if I'm having issues, then there are issues. I have two perfectly functioning hands, a perfectly functioning Wii, a perfectly functioning remote, and I've set things  up optimally. I've played Wii Motion Plus games before without issues, using similar mechanics like sword fighting. Why is it that Skyward Sword has this issue? It's definitely not just me.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Nov 19, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> brandonspikes said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing is wrong with the controls. They work perfect.
> ...



You're right, it's not just you. But if most of the people playing the game have no problem than it must be something you're doing or perhaps even the game/equipment you own is doing it wrong. But really I think none of us have any idea how bad the controls are for everyone considering the game just released yesterday in Europe and hasn't been released in the US, the capital of bitchy gamers. 

Until we see more user reviews we can't tell if it's the person playing the game or if it's the game itself that is the problem.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

prowler_ said:


> Edit: And while I'm bitching, what kind of title is that? I was like Tom McShea who?
> What?
> That Gamespot review?
> WHO CARES?



I changed the title to something a bit better, I was also like "Tom who?" For some reason I thought this thread would be about football or something until I saw that KingVamp made it.



suprgamr232 said:


> You're right, it's not just you. But if most of the people playing the game have no problem than it must be something you're doing or perhaps even the game/equipment you own is doing it wrong. But really I think none of us have any idea how bad the controls are for everyone considering the game just released yesterday in Europe and hasn't been released in the US, the capital of bitchy gamers.
> 
> Until we see more user reviews we can't tell if it's the person playing the game or if it's the game itself that is the problem.



I've used the same equipment and set up for other WM+ games (namely Wii Sports Resort, Red Steel 2, and Zangeki no Reginleiv) and never had issues in terms of the device working in any of those. If there's any fault it's not mine.


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## Deleted User (Nov 19, 2011)

So what is the problem with the controls then, Like be more specific.

I keep hearing how sword swinging is bad, and stabbing is bad, but I played the game for over 30 hours and not ONCE had any problems with directional swinging.

Out of EVERYTHING, the only bad controls would be during the start of the game with the free falling, but that doesn't matter, as its not used for anything outside of a sidequest.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

brandonspikes said:


> So what is the problem with the controls then, Like be more specific.
> 
> I keep hearing how sword swinging is bad, and stabbing is bad, but I played the game for over 30 hours and not ONCE had any problems with directional swinging.
> 
> Out of EVERYTHING, the only bad controls would be during the start of the game with the free falling, but that doesn't matter, as its not used for anything outside of a sidequest.



I try to change my hand positioning of the sword to get a more optimal angle and I end up slashing randomly. And when most enemies in the game start punishing you for mistakes, it's a pain when the mistake isn't even my own. Trying to bowl is also a pain in the balls. I wouldn't complain if I could just throw bombs for the same result and the whole "bowling" method was just for those who wanted a second option, but it's required at times and it's a pain. Maybe I'm not a good bowler but I don't think my skills on the alley should be calculated into an action adventure game.

Plus they're overly sensitive. I'll point my sword skyward and you'd assume that it should just charge up for a Skyward Slash. No, I have to keep it in a very specific position to use it. I don't use it in combat so it's not an issue but it just adds a nuisance to doing basic things like hitting those boxes and activating the shrine things.

I'll see enemies with clearly logical ways of attacking them only to have my attacks bounce off. Case in point, goblins. They'll hold up their blade in a upper, horizontal block. So I know a vertical swipe or a high horizontal strike would be foolish. So I go for a low, horizontal strike, only to have him block it. Why? There's no reason why he should be blocking it. I'd been able to own people in Wii Sports Resort and Red Steel 2 with sword fighting, why is their an issue now?

Then there's all the useless uses of it. Why do I need it for controlling the bug copter thing? It's not bad, sure, but I could do it just as well with an analog stick honestly. Why do I need it for balancing on a tightrope? I can do it easier with an analog stick. Why do I need it for skydiving? Again, analog stick.

I thought Nintendo's point with games like this is to validate their new control methods as something that can be a key addition to gameplay, doing stuff an analog stick or standard scheme can't. Making you long for analog stick controls on practically every use of it except for the one thing it can do uniquely (swordplay) is the exact opposite of you want. They want to market it as a new way to play, not a gimmick that starts shitting up basic mechanics because they can use it for everything.


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## _Chaz_ (Nov 19, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > The typical man who prefers his own ways rather than asking for directions.
> ...


hahahaha, perfect.


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## bowser (Nov 19, 2011)

The controls work fine for me. The reviewer obviously doesn't know how to play the game.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

bowser said:


> The controls work fine for me. The reviewer obviously doesn't know how to play the game.



If he didn't know how to play the game it'd be getting a much lower score than 7.5. Case in point, IGN review of God Hand. They gave it, what, a 2 or a 3 because they sucked at it? It's not a matter of the reviewer "being bad", it's a matter of the game having bad aspects.


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 19, 2011)

> I'll see enemies with clearly logical ways of attacking them only to have my attacks bounce off. Case in point, goblins. They'll hold up their blade in a upper, horizontal block. So I know a vertical swipe or a high horizontal strike would be foolish. So I go for a low, horizontal strike, only to have him block it. Why? There's no reason why he should be blocking it.



for once i agree with you as soon as i got the bow i just ended up putting these bastards out of their misery with it all the time and never used the sword again 




> Then there's all the useless uses of it. Why do I need it for controlling the bug copter thing? It's not bad, sure, but I could do it just as well with an analog stick honestly. Why do I need it for balancing on a tightrope? I can do it easier with an analog stick. Why do I need it for skydiving? Again, analog stick.



analog works well for swimming too


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## Deleted User (Nov 19, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> brandonspikes said:
> 
> 
> > So what is the problem with the controls then, Like be more specific.
> ...


^


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

brandonspikes said:


> *Sounds like a controller problem*



Never had this issue in other games.



> *Really? You just til the controller as if you're pointing to the floor and flick a little upward, Its really not hard, and I find it really fun.*



Except when I flick it, the angle changes. Even then, I find it unresponsive when I do so. It's hard to keep the damn thing straight as to not create an angle and to flick it at a correct speed to trigger a roll.



> *You're suppose to keep it straight up without moving, even FI said so.*



Which I do and it still doesn't work. I should just be able to point my sword skyward and keep it there. I mean it's a goddamn SKYWARD STRIKE in a game called SKYWARD SWORD. Why does not pointing a SWORD SKYWARD do a SKYWARD STRIKE like advertised? Hell, I mimic the exact pose he does on the cover and he still refuses to do it.



> *You're suppose to bait goblins and strike in the other direction, like Girahim.*



Which is basically the same thing as changing the directionality of your sword to counter whatever stance they're using. I had no problems doing this method on Girahim.



> *Hold A while balancing to move faster*



Still doesn't stop the mechanic from being useless and retarded. I do sprint but I still move slowly it seems.


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 19, 2011)

i found if you held the controller upside down like your holding a dumbbell pulling it towards you the bomb rolling was easy and you could do it sitting down. but yeh the bomb rolling is still fucking bad.

i'm starting to agree with the 7.5 rating maybe even a 6-7


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:


> i found if you held the controller upside down like your holding a dumbbell pulling it towards you the bomb rolling was easy and you could do it sitting down. but yeh the bomb rolling is still fucking bad.



Hm, I'll try this. Hopefully they'll start losing emphasis on this mechanic and just let throwing them be an equally good option.

For sitting down I just let my arm over the chair arm like I was moving a wheelchair. And don't go "AW THE GAME CONTROLS BAD BECAUSE YOU'RE SITTING" because I played it standing up as well and still had issues. Plus I played Red Steel 2 sitting down with no issues.

EDIT: The game itself is very well designed, it's just a shame that they shit it up with the motion controls and some really useless mechanics. Why do I need a conversation system, for instance, when it does nothing? This ain't Mass Effect. If anything I'd rather have on-rails dialogue where you just press A to go through dialogue boxes.


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 19, 2011)

While I can't say much about Tom's problem with the controls, how many people have a legitimate copy of Skyward Sword? Are those with one still having the problem? And for those that don't, could it be possible that this might be some small form of anti-piracy, or even a problem related to loaders, mods, etc? Just bringing it up because it seems some people have the problem, others don't, yet at this time, only in Europe is SS actually released (EU - Nov 18, US - Nov 20, JP - 23, AU - Nov 24), meaning you either live there and bought it, or you've got a pirated version.


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## Nah3DS (Nov 19, 2011)

Controls are perfect for me. I didn’t have any issues with it. You just have to know how to do things. Everyone is complaining about Goblins. It's simple... instead of waving your entire arm, just do a _quick wrist move_ in the opposite direction of his blade and then start waving your arm like with a real sword (the same technique for beating Girahim on your first encounter with him).

Like I've said 10 thousand times before... if someone is having problems with the controls, it could only be one of two things:
1. your controller doesn’t work
2. you suck

I have only 2 major complains with the game:
1. Why can't I adjust the text speed like every other RPG?... The text scrolls so slow! (even with the A button pressed).
2. no minimap? really? no minimap?!! I really hope that you can get it later on doing a sidequest or something (but I doubt it). Can someone confirm this?


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## mr deez (Nov 20, 2011)

FUCK ME I THOUGHT EVERYBODY HAD TO LIKE THE SAME GAMES?


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## KingVamp (Nov 20, 2011)

Not sure how much of a spoiler this is,but
[yt]p_aGjL1bwN0[/yt]
Looks fun to me.


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## awssk8er (Nov 20, 2011)

So he gave an amazing game an average score because he can't get the controls to work? That's really dumb... but alright. Nothing I can do about it.

I'll just enjoy my game with the controls that work perfectly fine...


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 20, 2011)

theres lots of other shit in this that makes it annoying and not feel like a zelda game. like the tear hunting for example there's also lots of other parts if  you fuck up even just once you have to start the whole level from scratch. shit like that annoys me and it shouldn't be in a zelda game has nothing to do with it being hard it's not that hard but zelda was never like that! And fuck you don't even really explore anymore it just tells you to go from A to B without having to really explore like in previous zelda games b4 TP. everytime they make a zelda game now it's moving more and more away from how it used to be instead of great exploration, puzzles and secrets we get gimmicks, mini games and run and sword. it's clear to me now that miyomoto obviously has nothing to do with zelda games anymore you can see that his magic is just not in it.


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## misteromar (Nov 20, 2011)

Giga_Gaia said:


> Actually, he is a little right. The controls for Skyward Sword are just downright horrible. I have never seen anything so horribly done. There is no word mankind has or can even invent to describe this **** to be honest.
> 
> Nintendo shouldn't have used Motion Plus. Or they can do it, but they should have given us the option of Gamecube controller.
> 
> ...



I hate the controls, I just want to chilax and enjoy Zelda but I have to fight the controls that temperamental, inaccurate, laggy and just plain tiresome.

Classic control support would have been beautiful.


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## Giggtysword344 (Nov 20, 2011)

misteromar said:


> Giga_Gaia said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, he is a little right. The controls for Skyward Sword are just downright horrible. I have never seen anything so horribly done. There is no word mankind has or can even invent to describe this **** to be honest.
> ...


i can honestly say i don't agree with the both of you. the controls work great and if you don't like them or suck at them don't whine about the game sucking if you just suck at it. the controls are fine if not great the way they are.


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## 1Player (Nov 20, 2011)

lol..the only argument fanboys have for the bad control is..."because you suck at it".
funny stuff

So there's people out there that don't like the same game you do, so what?


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> lol..the only argument fanboys have for the bad control is..."because you suck at it".
> funny stuff
> 
> So there's people out there that don't like the same game you do, so what?



They blame it on the controls, which for some reason doesn't work for them, while it works perfectly fine for the rest.

*IF* there isn't a problem with the hardware itself, then where else could the problem lie? It can't be the game itself, as right now, only the PAL version has been released/leaked, and EVERYONE currently playing SS is playing that version. In fact, I'm willing to pirate it myself just to see if the problem exists at all, and I even have one of the earliest WM+ modules to try it out.


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## junkerde (Nov 20, 2011)

i mean the game ISN't all that 10/10, but it also isnt how he explained it......


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 20, 2011)

DiscostewSM said:


> right now, only the PAL version has been released/leaked, and EVERYONE currently playing SS is playing that version.


um.....no


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## 1Player (Nov 20, 2011)

DiscostewSM said:


> 1Player said:
> 
> 
> > lol..the only argument fanboys have for the bad control is..."because you suck at it".
> ...



That's a pretty dumb argument.
example:
Skyrim for the PS3 have a save problem, some say after 25-30 hours there's lots of lag, while most don't experience that problem, some does.
by your logic it must mean they suck at saving games.


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 20, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > right now, only the PAL version has been released/leaked, and EVERYONE currently playing SS is playing that version.
> ...



Alright, you win this round, but my earlier post (not the one you quoted) still stands. Everyone who is playing it is either playing a legitimate version of the game, which is only the PAL version, or everyone is playing a pirated version, which could very well be the source of the "controls don't work" syndrome.




1Player said:


> That's a pretty dumb argument.
> example:
> Skyrim for the PS3 have a save problem, some say after 25-30 hours there's lots of lags, while most don't experience that problem, some does.
> so by your logic it must mean they suck at saving games.



Actually, that logic would dictate that the *PS3*, not the player, sucks at saving.


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## 1Player (Nov 20, 2011)

DiscostewSM said:


> Actually, that logic would dictate that the *PS3*, not the player, sucks at saving.



how did you come to that conclusion?
it's only happening with skyrim.

it's like saying the Wii sucks at motion control, not SS or the player.


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, that logic would dictate that the *PS3*, not the player, sucks at saving.
> ...


well i have the perfect solution that fixes that problem

play skyrim on the pc No lagg = NO PROBLEMS!


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, that logic would dictate that the *PS3*, not the player, sucks at saving.
> ...



Sorry, I should have said the PS3 version of the game would suck at saving the data. I say that under the assumption of what was given. If it only affected certain individuals, *then* it could be the PS3, but under the same assumption as I depict with SS and Wiis using mods, hacks, etc.


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## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm sticking to my point that people that have problems with controls are just bad at video games.


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## 1Player (Nov 20, 2011)

Let's see, it works for some but not for others but in regards to skyrim it's the game's fault but with skyward sword it's the player..man I will never understand the logic of a fanboy.


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> Let's see, it works for some but not for others but in regards to skyrim it's the game's fault but with skyward sword it's the player..man I will never understand the logic of a fanboy.



Check my edit, please.


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## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> Let's see, it works for some but not for others but in regards to skyrim it's the game's fault but with skyward sword it's the player..man I will never understand the logic of a fanboy.


It works for *everyone*, but a lot of people are bad and cant grasp movement, so they claim it doesn't work.


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## misteromar (Nov 20, 2011)

Giggtysword344 said:


> misteromar said:
> 
> 
> > Giga_Gaia said:
> ...



Thats what makes it worse, the game its self is brilliant it just that the controls make it a chore to play which brings down the over all experience.


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## Midna (Nov 20, 2011)

So, uh, this thread is full of people who don't know how to use the M+? I have the game in front of me as we speak. It's perfect. I don't feel like I can play another Zelda game without this. My actions are perfectly mimicked. It does not desync, ever. Only the pointer does and that's even lampshaded in the game. It's fixed with a quick down on the pad.

What are you all doing wrong?


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## Hielkenator (Nov 20, 2011)

DiscostewSM said:


> 1Player said:
> 
> 
> > lol..the only argument fanboys have for the bad control is..."because you suck at it".
> ...



Dude the NTSC version was long before the PAL version leaked!


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## Midna (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> lol..the only argument fanboys have for the bad control is..."because you suck at it".
> funny stuff
> 
> So there's people out there that don't like the same game you do, so what?


Did you even think about that before you posted it? Christ, it's like I'm in /v/.

Let me ask you, comrade. If you are terrible at Tennis, does that make Tennis a bad sport?


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 20, 2011)

Hielkenator said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > 1Player said:
> ...



Yes, I was corrected by Blade already.


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## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2011)

Midna said:


> 1Player said:
> 
> 
> > lol..the only argument fanboys have for the bad control is..."because you suck at it".
> ...


Tennis is bad because it doesn't have voice acting.
LOL


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## Midna (Nov 20, 2011)

1Player said:


> Let's see, it works for some but not for others but in regards to skyrim it's the game's fault but with skyward sword it's the player..man I will never understand the logic of a fanboy.


Oh I see where you're going here. You believe that the control issues people complain about is a legitimate bug, an error that only some people experience.

And not, in fact, that some people just suck ass at it. If I have, for instance, never once played a first person dual analog shooter, and then try Battlefield... I will have issues using the game. Does that mean that Battlefield is a bad game?

If you can provide some evidence to support the notion that this is an actual problem introduced somehow by Nintendo themselves, then by all means. I'm waiting.


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## Hielkenator (Nov 20, 2011)

NahuelDS said:


> Controls are perfect for me. I didn’t have any issues with it. You just have to know how to do things. Everyone is complaining about Goblins. It's simple... instead of waving your entire arm, just do a _quick wrist move_ in the opposite direction of his blade and then start waving your arm like with a real sword (the same technique for beating Girahim on your first encounter with him).
> 
> Like I've said 10 thousand times before... if someone is having problems with the controls, it could only be one of two things:
> 1. your controller doesn’t work
> ...



I agree. But the lacking of a minimap I actually like.
Really do you have a minimap to move around in real life?
The lack of it makes you take note of your surroundings imho  and takes away the "tunnelvision" somewhat, I think that is present in the later 3d Zelda games.
Remember: there was no map onscreen in the 2D zelda's.
But i've would liked it even more if it was optional like in TTP.

Also now that I've played through the game, I'm wondering why it took so long to develop.
As a side note : the Retail game is also very minimalistic in term of packaging, considering it's Zelda's 25 anniversary and all...
A VERY thin booklet like 6 pages. and a fold out pamflet with the track list for the orchestral CD + the CD.
Thats it.

Feels VERY cheap for 50 euro's, compared to previous zelda games.


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## godreborn (Nov 20, 2011)

I think some of the motion controls r good, but others r just poorly implemented.  the bomb cursor, for example, randomly doesn't appear on the screen.  and, while flying, my commands aren't registered correctly unless I move the wiimote outside of the tv's viewing angle.  this same problem occurs when maneuvering the beetle.


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## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2011)

godreborn said:


> I think some of the motion controls r good, but others r just poorly implemented.  the bomb cursor, for example, randomly doesn't appear on the screen.  and, while flying, my commands aren't registered correctly unless I move the wiimote outside of the tv's viewing angle.  this same problem occurs when maneuvering the beetle.


You're doing it wrong.


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## Hielkenator (Nov 20, 2011)

godreborn said:


> I think some of the motion controls r good, but others r just poorly implemented.  the bomb cursor, for example, randomly doesn't appear on the screen.  and, while flying, my commands aren't registered correctly unless I move the wiimote outside of the tv's viewing angle.  this same problem occurs when maneuvering the beetle.



point at the middle of your screen  ( no cursor )Press down on your d-pad, fixed.


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## Nah3DS (Nov 20, 2011)

Hielkenator said:


> I agree. But the lacking of a minimap I actually like.
> The lack of it makes you take note of your surroundings imho  and takes away the "tunnelvision" somewhat, I think that is present in the later 3d Zelda games.
> Remember: there was no map onscreen in the 2D zelda's.
> But i've would liked it even more if it was optional like in TTP.


True, in classic 2D Zelda games (A Link To The Past, Link's Awakening, Oracle Ages/Seasons) you don’t have the minimap. But you don’t get lost because the square based layout. With 3D Zelda games is different... every single one has the minimap, I just get so used to it in 3D games that I can’t get over the fact that Skyward Sword lacks one.

But you're totally right.... when I realized that I have to open the map screen often to know where I’m going, it feel like the old games. But I will take some time for me to get used to the fact that I don’t have a minimap in a 3D environment.



Hielkenator said:


> Really do you have a minimap to move around in real life?


mmmm yeap... there is a little thing called GPS


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## BrightNeko (Nov 20, 2011)

aren't opinions fun?


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## dorayaki95 (Nov 20, 2011)

so, there is actually 1 gaming website that does gaming reviews named Gamespot?


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 20, 2011)

the controls are not the problem with this game it's the other gimmicks that it's filled with that's making it feel not like a zelda game.


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## DSGamer64 (Nov 20, 2011)

It's Gamespot, they'd give the lemmings more perfect CoD scores before they give real games proper reviews and ratings. They have been a laughable joke for over a decade now, just catering to the casuals is all they do.


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## KingVamp (Nov 20, 2011)

I notice the only ones who are calling motion controllers gimmicky and holding the game down,
are the ones (that seems to be user error) can't get the controllers to completely work.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> I notice the only ones who are calling motion controllers gimmicky and holding the game down,
> are the ones (that seems to be user error) can't get the controllers to completely work.



It's gimmicky because they're using it in places where analog controls are better. It's fine when it's used in places where it would be superior (sword fighting, the whip, etc), but it's gimmicky when it brings the game down in basic areas (swimming, flying, balancing, etc).

Learning a peripheral's strengths and avoiding its weaknesses is what makes something innovating. Slapping it on every mechanic it can be used for is what makes it gimmicky.


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## prowler (Nov 20, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> I notice the only ones who are calling motion controllers gimmicky and holding the game down,
> are the ones (that seems to be user error) can't get the controllers to completely work.


Lolno, stop trying to justify motion controls.

Games that force motion controls that have no other option (Gamecube and classic controller) are stupid.
If I was forced to play Monster Hunter, Sonic Colours and all the others in motion, I wouldn't play them at all.


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## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > I notice the only ones who are calling motion controllers gimmicky and holding the game down,
> ...


It wasn't designed for analog control, so how can you say such things?


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## KingVamp (Nov 20, 2011)

I was just talking about this game with motion controllers specifically which seem to justify motion controllers on it own.

Question, how is the analog stick use in this game? Just for movement?


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

brandonspikes said:


> It wasn't designed for analog control, so how can you say such things?



You can easily design swimming, flying, balancing, all this for an analog stick. Also, it's just a fucking stupid design choice if they decided to slap motion controls onto everything.



KingVamp said:


> I was just talking about this game with motion controllers specifically which seem to justify motion controllers on it own.
> 
> Question, how is the analog stick use in this game? Just for movement?



The motion controls are justified, the game wouldn't work without them, but so many mechanics could do without them.

The analog stick is basically just for on-ground movement and a few other things. But some basic crap like swimming, flying, balancing on ropes, piloting your beetle thing, all this is motion controlled. Which is flat out stupid.


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## Deleted_171835 (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The motion controls are justified, the game wouldn't work without them, but so many mechanics could do without them.
> 
> The analog stick is basically just for on-ground movement and a few other things. But some basic crap like swimming, flying, balancing on ropes, piloting your beetle thing, all this is motion controlled. Which is flat out stupid.


I say the motion controls add immersion to those elements. Flying or balancing on a rope with the analog stick simply wouldn't be as fun and for a motion-controlled game, wouldn't make much sense. Personally, I think the MotionPlus works perfectly for these things. I never had any problems with it. Unlike Wii Sports Resort, I only had to calibrate it once at the beginning and it worked flawlessly.


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## BasedKiliK (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The motion controls are justified, the game wouldn't work without them, but so many mechanics could do without them.
> 
> The analog stick is basically just for on-ground movement and a few other things. But some basic crap like swimming, flying, balancing on ropes, piloting your beetle thing, all this is motion controlled. Which is flat out stupid.


Whether it's "stupid" or not depends on the player and their own experience with said controls. I myself, and quite a few others, rather enjoy the motion control mechanics on several simple aspects, mainly because a lot of this stuff has already been done with analog stick in one form or another.  Plus, it's simply trying to invent a new way to experience those features, and there's nothing wrong with that. They certainly didn't do a bad job integrating the motion controls (except for maybe the bombs; rolling them can be a pain at times).


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

soulx said:


> I say the motion controls add immersion to those elements. Flying or balancing on a rope with the analog stick simply wouldn't be as fun and for a motion-controlled game, wouldn't make much sense. Personally, I think the MotionPlus works perfectly for these things. I never had any problems with it. Unlike Wii Sports Resort, I only had to calibrate it once at the beginning and it worked flawlessly.



I don't see it adding "immersion" as these are simple mechanics that should be second nature. I don't find any "immersion" in having controls at parts that are inferior to other options that the system can do. I don't feel attached to my character when I have to use motion controls to swim and fly, especially when these controls are just not nearly as good as an analog stick. In fact, it takes me out of the game and makes me wonder why they would make such a choice. A good story, deep characters, and good graphics/sound/art add immersion. Adding bad controls doesn't.

I want a "new way to play" where it counts, like in swordplay. That was certainly a new way to play (well, Red Steel 2 did it first but I digress). Making second nature mechanics into nuisances isn't a "new way to play", it's a bad design decision. I'm not labeling all motion controls in this game as bad, in fact I think the game needs them to work. But these mechanics certainly don't and they do drag the game down, both in terms of a review score and in a player's eyes.

Yes, I am brewing a review as I'm playing it in my head, so you'll see my own standpoint once I finish the game (which hopefully will be today).


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## Nah3DS (Nov 20, 2011)

I just beated the 2nd boss, and I MUST say:
- the bombs mechanic works perfectly, I don’t get why everyone is whining about it
- what a epic battle!... I haven't played anything this fun in a long time!

Gimmicky??... MY ASS!... this game is pure immersive experience!
If you can’t get into motion controls... you can always go and play Twilight Princess with a gamecube controller.

Lots of people complain about Zelda being the same game over and over again (the same story, same places, same blah blah blah). Now that they have something different (motion controls), they're complaing about it too.

Kids like to complain about everything now these days... what a bunch of pussies.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

NahuelDS said:


> I just beated the 2nd boss, and I MUST say:
> - the bombs mechanic works perfectly, I don’t get why everyone is whining about it
> - what a epic battle!... I haven't played anything this fun in a long time!
> 
> ...



Wait, you're only on the second dungeon and you're calling naysayers "pussies" and saying they're "complaining" when you're only on the second dungeon? C'mon, you haven't even been introduced to half the mechanics in the game. I just finished the 5th dungeon (Naryu's Flame or whatever) and I've been refining my opinion as I go.


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## Nah3DS (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Wait, you're only on the second dungeon and you're calling naysayers "pussies" and saying they're "complaining" when you're only on the second dungeon? C'mon, you haven't even been introduced to half the mechanics in the game. I just finished the 5th dungeon (Naryu's Flame or whatever) and I've been refining my opinion as I go.


so?
The controls work flawlessly so far. I already tested all the mechanics that people are whining about (goblins, bombs, how "stupid" is the implementation of motion controls on the beetle and bird, etc)


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## DiscostewSM (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> NahuelDS said:
> 
> 
> > I just beated the 2nd boss, and I MUST say:
> ...



Yet one of the earliest mechanics that is being complained about is being said to work very well by others.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

NahuelDS said:


> so?
> The controls work flawlessly so far. I already tested all the mechanics that people are whining about (goblins, bombs, how "stupid" is the implementation of motion controls on the beetle and bird, etc)



You haven't swam yet and there's many more complex enemies out there when it comes to swordplay. As you go on, bomb throwing requires more precision (annoyingly so), as does using the beetle. These mechanics aren't outright broken, they're just useless. I can use an analog stick and do it better, and the Wii has an analog stick it can use.

EDIT: You want a comparison? Take touch screen buttons on an iPhone game. Say for example the Vita (not getting into the Vita here, it's just the only console that comes to mind with a touchscreen and regular buttons) decided to use touch screen buttons like iPhone games? What's the point of using them when I have a whole set of buttons? Some people may enjoy them more, sure, but a lot of people would just wonder why I can't just use the buttons to do it better.



DiscostewSM said:


> Yet one of the earliest mechanics that is being complained about is being said to work very well by others.



Which is?


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## Hyro-Sama (Nov 20, 2011)

Gamespot thinks Wii Sports Resort is better than Skyword Sword? I'm speechless.


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## Elrinth (Nov 20, 2011)

*I'm playing the game on Dolphin, so that might contribute to faults, but I doubt since this gamespot guy is having the same problems on the actual Wii.*

First thing I want to say: Stop glorifying the game's controls. They're great when they work, but they obviously don't work all the time!

They are broken sometimes and it's the gyroscope which is going bananas.
This tested with both first wiimote + wiimotion plus which came with Red Steel 2 AND on official Zelda Skyward sword collector wiimote. So there's definatly nothing wrong with my hardware, nor with the way I'm playing.

The places I'm having most problems are usually during item selection screen (HOLD B) and flying the bird.
Easy solutions for these problems would be: use analog stick to select item in B-menu. Flying bird with analog instead of motion controls, OR don't make me waggle my control to flap wings.

There was one part in the game where I could answer Impa with three options, this place required me to use the infra red. Am I Rite? Why not simply let me control with analog like I'm able to when I wanna save my game at the bird statues. Talk about inconsistence in how controls work. It's like they took a different person for each part of the game to design controls around that particular part and they didn't talk to eachother how they solved their parts.

Wii Sports Resort isn't as appealing as any core Zelda game. I can't believe they gave that game better score. Then again, probably different reviewer.


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## Midna (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> NahuelDS said:
> 
> 
> > so?
> ...


Guild you have a point that the some things _could_ have been controlled using the analog stick. But I don't think the motion control is too much worse in the area, certainly nothing to complain about. I'm just through the fourth dungeon and everything's been dandy for me. There's this one place in the second dungeon where you get to pilot the beetle down a twisting, narrow tunnel to collect 100 rupees. I didn't hit the walls once.
Yeah, they could have used the analog stick. But I don't think it would make much difference.



Elrinth said:


> *I'm playing the game on Dolphin, so that might contribute to faults, but I doubt since this gamespot guy is having the same problems on the actual Wii.*
> 
> First thing I want to say: Stop glorifying the game's controls. They're great when they work, but they obviously don't work all the time!
> 
> ...


The part with three answers for Impa is still Gyro like all the other selection menus, not IR. You can also recentre the cursor in these selection menus. I find the B menu quick to use and accurate. I've never missed a target while flying the bird. Perhaps you need more practice? Dolphin doesn't screw up the controls.

Oh hold on, bugger. You are using a sensor bar along with dolphin, right? The sensor bar tells the Wiimote which way is forward. Don't have that, and things will get screwy, fast,


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## Elrinth (Nov 20, 2011)

Probably why my wiimote is acting weird then, cause sometimes it's all upside down  I'll play without sensor bar tonight after I finish work. Thx for tip 

As for practice. I'm the f-ng best gamer in the world! I'll take you on in any multiplayer game and always WIN! _(or not)_


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## Elrinth (Nov 20, 2011)

edit: fail- pushed quote instead of edit


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## Midna (Nov 20, 2011)

Elrinth said:


> edit: fail- pushed quote instead of edit


When I double post it just tacks it on to my previous one. Does that not work for everyone?


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

Midna said:


> Guild you have a point that the some things _could_ have been controlled using the analog stick. But I don't think the motion control is too much worse in the area, certainly nothing to complain about. I'm just through the fourth dungeon and everything's been dandy for me. There's this one place in the second dungeon where you get to pilot the beetle down a twisting, narrow tunnel to collect 100 rupees. I didn't hit the walls once.
> Yeah, they could have used the analog stick. But I don't think it would make much difference.



I mean the controls aren't terrible for most things, like piloting the bug, flying, and swimming are definitely workable, it just seems silly that you can't use the analog stick. It's better either way you look at it.


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## Midna (Nov 20, 2011)

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. It would be a more balanced game if the analog stick were put to proper use.
Even so, it still works.


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## Master Mo (Nov 20, 2011)

I think the game is great and the score is not justifiable...

The only time I have errors in the controls is when I sometimes go into the map. I don`t know why but the pointer is not always centered like when I use a weapon. Not a big deal for me. Other then that the controls worked brilliantly for me.

I also have to say that some things people tend to call gimmiky are things I like in particular, like flying by tilting (the beattle and the loftwing). The only thing I kinda think is strange that it`s handled by the Wiimote is when you balance on robes, though I see where they are coming from. I guess walking with the analog over the robe and balancing your body with the Wiimote.

Oh and I really would love to know who came up with the idea of that item-selection-screen... A work of a genius!


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2011)

Master Mo said:


> Oh and I really would love to know who came up with the idea of that item-selection-screen... A work of a genius!



You know it's basically the basic dial system that's been used in BioWare games since this gen? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc all use them to select skills that aren't quickmapped. Or so I thought.

EDIT: And I'm sure there's probably another instance of it that predates the BioWare titles.


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## Master Mo (Nov 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Master Mo said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and I really would love to know who came up with the idea of that item-selection-screen... A work of a genius!
> ...


Yeah, Bioware did a great job on that as well in ME1&2. But it`s not quite the same!

What I think is special here in Skyward Sword is, when you`ve memorized the location of the item (for example the beetle is east or the bombs are north-east) you can simply hold "B" and in that same moment you can already point to the location of the item you need and it will select it.

The best aspect of this is, that it doesn`t pause the game and that you don`t even have to point on the screen, since the line ensures, that the pointer doesn`t go out of the screen, even when you are pointing way out of the screen! I always exaggerate the motion for that split second, since I don`t even care for the pointer at all (similar to what Miyamoto did on that fail-demo of the game )!

I`ve noticed how fast I change items now, especially when I see a bug: in a matter of a second I grab the net and catch that thing without any interruption 

Like I said: work of a genius!


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## TheBlueBadger (Nov 20, 2011)

to be honest at this point he's just finding excuses to hate the game because of all the positive reviews. I guess it's too mainstream for him


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## Midna (Nov 21, 2011)

TheBlueBadger said:


> to be honest at this point he's just finding excuses to hate the game because of all the positive reviews. I guess it's too mainstream for him





TheBlueBadger said:


> to be honest at this point he's just finding excuses to hate the game because of all the positive reviews. I guess it's too mainstream for him


It's worse than that. He's trolling for hits. The fact that this is creating a controversy is fantastic for gamespot. The more outraged players read his review, the more views gamespot gets for it's advertisers, the more money they make. Would people care about his review if it was a perfect 10 like everyone else's?


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