# Nintendo Downloaded Super Mario Bros from Internet



## Cylent1 (Jan 30, 2017)

Nintendo Downloaded Super Mario Bros from Internet and Sold it back to you as Virtual Console Rom.
Here is the Proof!


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## Deleted User (Jan 30, 2017)

Really not surprised tbh. I always emulate on my pc tho so.....


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## FAST6191 (Jan 30, 2017)

Is that a bad thing?


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## Cylent1 (Jan 30, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Is that a bad thing?


Knowing you are not getting an Official Nintendo product after paying Nintendo, would bother me to be honest.
But in this day of Leftist Snowflake millenials, Probably Not!


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## FAST6191 (Jan 30, 2017)

If they themselves sell it and the code is that which would have gone onto the ROMs however many years ago then how is it not official?


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## ItsKipz (Jan 30, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> If they themselves sell it and the code is that which would have gone onto the ROMs however many years ago then how is it not official?


It was a modified rom with a special format.


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## osaka35 (Jan 30, 2017)

ItsKipz said:


> It was a modified rom with a special format.


As i understand it, it was the header and there's just a limited amount of ways to do such things since it's being read by emulated hardware. There is still the possibility for coincidence. Either way, the rom itself is theirs, it was just the code for emulation that would be the problem. It's not like you're *not* purchasing a legit rom ripped from a mario cartridge. The only thing in doubt is the code involved with the emulation of the thing.


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## Cylent1 (Jan 30, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> As i understand it, it was the header and it's more of just how such things are done since it's being read by emulated hardware. There is still the possibility for coincidence. Either way, the rom itself is theirs, it was just the code for emulation that would be the problem. It's not like you're *not* purchasing a legit rom ripped from a mario cartridge. The only thing in doubt is the code involved with the emulation of the thing.


So it's ok for them to take the credit for the emulation code when blatantly they did not write it?
No credits given to the one who wrote it?
Sounds like some above the law corporate bullshit to me that too many people just let slide.


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## osaka35 (Jan 30, 2017)

Cylent1 said:


> So it's ok for them to take the credit for the emulation code when blatantly they did not write it?
> No credits given to the one who wrote it?
> Sounds like some above the law corporate bullshit to me that too many people just let slide.


If they stole it, then that's super shady and they should be called out. But as I understand it, it's hardly clear evidence. It's just in the realm of possibility if you squint hard enough. It could be the person the code allegedly was stolen from just came to the same conclusion as nintendo. its just a tiny coincidence you'd expect. It could be nintendo just stole the code because they're lazy. I don't know, but i'd like to see some more work done towards finding an actual answer rather than assumption of guilt based on pure bias.


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## Daggot (Jan 30, 2017)

Damn I would've thought that they could've at least used some sort of basic cart dumper.


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## Cylent1 (Jan 30, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> that's super shady and they should be called out.


Regardless, they need to called out to be put back in their place instead of thieving from people with no consequences.
If it looks like a duck,
walks like a duck,
quacks like a duck.
then most likely it is a Duck!


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## FAST6191 (Jan 30, 2017)

So I watched the video to see if anything interesting was involved (I saw a discussion on this elsewhere earlier and had seen the GDC talk before so hopefully does not count as didn't read but commenting anyway).

"Modified" appears to be that there was a header attached to a bunch of dumps stuck together (no emulator developed performance interleaving or anything like we might see on some optical formats). The rest seems to be as it would be in a cart, or at least it is not like they took the work of some ROM hacker and sold it, and I struggle to see where any harm was done to emu devs or other parties potentially involved. The response is at best a bit disingenuous, or maybe one hand does not know what the other is doing (as the video speculates), but I am still not seeing anything to get any kind of riled up about though. Sure their website says something but I am not sure how much I want to read into what I will probably consider boilerplate legalese.

Edit. On "emulator code" then had they borrowed a bunch from fceux or something and compiled it without releasing changes or whatever was required then slap 'em good and hard (and several have pulled apart their emulators before, can't speak to them doing full clean room emulation coding but I have not seen any analysis say it is a quick and dirty recompile). This is a header format of no great consequence, possibly even none if it works similarly to some of their other emulators with game specific settings -- if if read the header and set settings then there is a ghost of chance you could argue something, if the emulator is otherwise programmed to be said mapper then I am not seeing it.


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## Cylent1 (Jan 30, 2017)

Hey everybody it's OK!
Ninty just came out and said it was just an Alternative Fact! *sarcasm


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

Lol, Nintendo is too lazy to dump their own ROMs, shows how half-assed their efforts on the VC really are 

So glad that I've been using unofficial emulators and ROM dumps on the Wii U instead  Makes me feel better being able to use emulators that are better anyway.


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## BARNWEY (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Lol, Nintendo is too lazy to dump their own ROMs, shows how half-assed their efforts on the VC really are
> 
> So glad that I've been using unofficial emulators and ROM dumps on the Wii U instead  Makes me feel better being able to use emulators that are better anyway.


I've been doing the same thing, except on the 3DS. The only VC I use are injected + fixed GBA VCs XD


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

BARNWEY said:


> I've been doing the same thing, except on the 3DS. The only VC I use are injected + fixed GBA VCs XD



I've given up on the VC long ago, unofficial emulation is often superior in pretty much every way XD Now that the Wii U can run Snes9x, Nestopia, etc perfectly, heh heh heh


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## osaka35 (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm always sad when official emulation doesn't have speed multipliers or other bells and whistles.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> I'm always sad when official emulation doesn't have speed multipliers or other bells and whistles.



Only because they put the minimum amount of effort in them; take for instance the Snes emulator for Wii, apparently code was borrowed from some old Snes emulator for MacOS. I've seen a few RetroArch developers discover this and claimed that's why it never emulated the SuperFX; that emulator for Mac didn't emulate it either.  Sad


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## DarkCoffe64 (Jan 30, 2017)

Yeah, I saw that video. If Nintendo's really did that, then they have no rights to get so butthurt if people emulate their old games rather than buying them.





I mean, 5$ for fucking SMB on NES? For that price you can get the Crash Bandicoot trilogy on PSN. Now tell me which is the best deal.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 30, 2017)

Though I am the last one to praise the VC emulation for anything really, and this may speak to a certain mindset that is pervasive within that, I am not seeing the gain for them to build a dumping tool or, assuming it was hard, go through procurement for the ROM images over downloading it.
At least when official game support forums suggest cracked versions (usually when some beleaguered intern they have manning it slips up), or somewhere like gog uses a cracked version we can have a little giggle. This really does seem like a non event, and an amusing bit of trivia for the GDC talk* mentioned in the video.

*link because it is actually a great talk
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023470/-It-s-Just-Emulation

Edit


DarkCoffe64 said:


> If Nintendo's really did that, then they have no rights to get so butthurt if people emulate their old games rather than buying them.


Why? They still own the copyright to the game and presumably have discretion as to the ways they disseminate it.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

DarkCoffe64 said:


> Yeah, I saw that video. If Nintendo's really did that, then they have no rights to get so butthurt if people emulate their old games rather than buying them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One reason I don't like the VC either, some games are priced good, most are not worth it, $5 for a game that can be beat in 10 minutes, big whoop. Not worth it.


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## Molina (Jan 30, 2017)

DarkCoffe64 said:


> I mean, 5$ for fucking SMB on NES? For that price you can get the Crash Bandicoot trilogy on PSN. Now tell me which is the best deal.


SMB *nintendo fanboy intensifies*

Nintendo will probably say, "meh it's our game anyway, be grateful we didn't put a DMCA".
That's crazy how those games editors bitch about something we do and end up doing the same thing or let giganormous flaws, allowing us to do even more things...


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

Molina said:


> SMB *nintendo fanboy intensifies*
> 
> Nintendo will probably say, "meh it's our game anyway, be grateful we didn't put a DMCA".
> That's crazy how those games editors bitch about something we do and end up doing the same thing or let giganormous flaws, allowing us to do even more things...



Nintendo isn't above the law, what the courts have decided about emulation legality supersedes what Nintendo's fear-mongering FAQ states about emulation. Sony's lawsuits against Bleem! and Connectix oddly enough resulted in favor of emulation by supreme court judges, as it is a derivative work (reverse engineered). Emulators are fair game so long as they don't contain copyrighted code.


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## DarkCoffe64 (Jan 30, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Why? They still own the copyright to the game and presumably have discretion as to the ways they disseminate it.


Because, the way I see it, Nintendo isn't any different from any other person that download roms if they do it too.
I mean, I believe its a ethical case: You want to show your customers you don't do that kind of things, no? Or something like that.




And the price. The price too counts.


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## BARNWEY (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> I've given up on the VC long ago, unofficial emulation is often superior in pretty much every way XD Now that the Wii U can run Snes9x, Nestopia, etc perfectly, heh heh heh


Yeah, same here. The only reason I use GBA VC is because it is the only full-speed GBA emulator on O3DS...


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## WiiUBricker (Jan 30, 2017)

That's a disaster. I will sue them for pirating their own stuff!


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## Cylent1 (Jan 30, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> That's a disaster. I will sue them for pirating their own stuff!


With an avatar like that, I highly doubt you would be taken seriously!  jk


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## Hells Malice (Jan 30, 2017)

ITT: A bunch of uneducated entitled Nintenyearolds cry about Nintendo selling their own games.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

BARNWEY said:


> Yeah, same here. The only reason I use GBA VC is because it is the only full-speed GBA emulator on O3DS...



It's pretty well optimized, I think, but I think it uses DS mode as a compatibility layer, not sure



Hells Malice said:


> ITT: A bunch of uneducated entitled Nintenyearolds cry about Nintendo selling their own games.



Meh, couldn't care less about service they don't put any effort in lol


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## FAST6191 (Jan 30, 2017)

DarkCoffe64 said:


> Because, the way I see it, Nintendo isn't any different from any other person that download roms if they do it too.
> I mean, I believe its a ethical case: You want to show your customers you don't do that kind of things, no? Or something like that.



I guess I can agree to that. If Nintendo does not want people to use unauthorised copies of Nintendo intellectual property then Nintendo should probably not use unauthorised copies of Nintendo intellectual property. There is something of a precedent as well https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/oct/29/tvnews.internationalnews


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> One reason I don't like the VC either, some games are priced good, most are not worth it, $5 for a game that can be beat in 10 minutes, big whoop. Not worth it.


How do you beat the game in 10 Minutes?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 30, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> How do you beat the game in 10 Minutes?


Have you seen speed runs?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Hells Malice said:


> ITT: A bunch of uneducated entitled Nintenyearolds cry about Nintendo selling their own games.



That sums up the world. Sigh. Their game. Their code. Oh noes, it's the work of someone else who dumped it 20+ years ago to distribute on the interwebs for free. Holy hell, people. You all are messed up


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jan 30, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Have you seen speed runs?


That doesn't answer my question, but i have, i saw a week full of it. If you don't know how he does it then please let him answer.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 30, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> That doesn't answer my question, but i have, i saw a week full of it. If you don't know how he does it then please let him answer.


The answer is literally in front of you. You want to be an ass, that's all you.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jan 30, 2017)

Memoir said:


> The answer is literally in front of you. You want to be an ass, that's all you.


Well unless he can tell me himself i have no reason to say more. Being disrespectful to someone is unnecessary when i didn't ask you anything but you decided to answer anyway.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> How do you beat the game in 10 Minutes?


 

Donkey Kong, and I was using hyperbole, some games are not worth 5 dollars.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Donkey Kong, and I was using hyperbole, some games are not worth 5 dollars.


I see, well i get it now, also i agree, the VC game of Super mario bros is not worth $5, none of them is worth the price is listed... except maybe the wii games.... depending on what they are. But that why i emulate most of my games. Good old fatithful android or pc.  

$5 for nes VC games $8 for SNES and GBA games $10 NDS and N64 games and $20 for WII games. (All of them include some exceptions) Not to mention tax as well... Mean while Playstation stores has ps1 games at $6 (Excpet for the square enix ones) PS2 games at $10 and some ps2 games exclusive to ps4 system for $15 with no tax. Also their sales are even better. Still wish both companies had better games to buy on them as well. Wonder why diddy kong racing isn't on VC yet?


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## Veho (Jan 30, 2017)

This reminds me of the writer Walter Jon Williams. who didn't have his early works in digital format, so when he wanted to publish them as e-books, he downloaded his books from torrents and published that. 
He did note that the versions were full of OCR errors  and typos, though.


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 30, 2017)

its more like nintendo was somewhat screwed over by members of their vc-development teams.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> its more like nintendo was somewhat screwed over by members of their vc-development teams.



Yeah, thankfully NERD (Nintendo European Research and Development), will handle the VC  with the Switch, at least they know how to write good emulators.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Yeah, thankfully NERD, will handle the VC with the Switch, at least they know how to write good emulators.



Yes, let's hire NERDS to do the emulation work from now on. Cause the ones who have been doing it don't do well... (Except the M2 people, they do it best. GBA SMA4 is godlike as well as Mega man battle network instant secret chips.)


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## VinsCool (Jan 30, 2017)

They get the ROMs from internet, or they dump the ROMs themselves. What does it change really? The end result will be the same.
All Virtual Console games I dumped were ROMs matching scene dumps, some of them were edited, for whatever reason, to fix a bug or change a minor detail.
Many of those I dumped (n64 specifically) are exactly the same files found on internet, in .z64 format. If someone dumps it and put it online, and Nintendo dump it themselves, the file is likely to be the same. So why would they bother? Just grab internet ROMs, problem solved.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> They get the ROMs from internet, or they dump the ROMs themselves. What does it change really? The end result will be the same.
> All Virtual Console games I dumped were ROMs matching scene dumps, some of them were edited, for whatever reason, to fix a bug or change a minor detail.
> Many of those I dumped (n64 specifically) are exactly the same files found on internet, in .z64 format. If someone dumps it and put it online, and Nintendo dump it themselves, the file is likely to be the same. So why would they bother? Just grab internet ROMs, problem solved.



Nintendo just proved how lazy they were, I just proved to Nintendo that unofficial emulators are a helluva lot better, generally speaking, than their shoddy, super inaccurate VC emulators XD


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## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 30, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> They get the ROMs from internet, or they dump the ROMs themselves. What does it change really? The end result will be the same.
> All Virtual Console games I dumped were ROMs matching scene dumps, some of them were edited, for whatever reason, to fix a bug or change a minor detail.
> Many of those I dumped (n64 specifically) are exactly the same files found on internet, in .z64 format. If someone dumps it and put it online, and Nintendo dump it themselves, the file is likely to be the same. So why would they bother? Just grab internet ROMs, problem solved.


Also saves them from probably having to dig out old devkits and vault cartridges and dump them that way. Though I'm surprised that there wouldn't be digital copies of both the uncompiled and raw compiled game image to use.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Also saves them from probably having to dig out old devkits and vault cartridges and dump them that way. Though I'm surprised that there wouldn't be digital copies of both the uncompiled and raw compiled game image to use.



IDK what to think, but I will say I have even less remorse and more justification in playing emulators with dumped ROMs.


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Yeah, thankfully NERD (Nintendo European Research and Development), will handle the VC  with the Switch, at least they know how to write good emulators.



still doesn't mean that, under time or financial pressure, they wouldn't use something that already works.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 30, 2017)

This is totally fine.
People shouldn't be complaining about this.
Nintendo owns the copyright and it has the right to do it this way.
The product is unaltered, but the cost/time goes down.
The emulator code is outsourced to another company but paid and owned by Nintendo.
There is no copyright infringement over using iNES headers.

This only makes a nice anecdote, nothing else.


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## VashTS (Jan 30, 2017)

this is pretty much the same outrage i'd have if i found out they use zip compression. not a deal at all if they do, zip has been around for a LOOOOONG time why bother making something new just stick with the standard.


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## roo1234 (Jan 30, 2017)

That's what I said in other forum, Nintendo just cut corners and used something of their own readily available , in this case used the header structure which is not part of the pure ROM image. If I'm not wrong this format was invented by the emulation pioneer Marat Fayzullin.
Nothing wrong with Nintendo doing that, but it's a good story.


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## Sliter (Jan 30, 2017)

man they have the rogh over these names and stuuf, it belong to them, being uploaded by someone else or not ... if I make a Mario art, they have the right to use it even without consulting me (btw sega did stuff alike with sonic :v lololo) It not a good thing to do with who make the stuuf but are their right here :/


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## BARNWEY (Jan 30, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> It's pretty well optimized, I think, but I think it uses DS mode as a compatibility layer, not sure


They use DS mode to emulate the slot 2 hardware, even though it does use the Arm7 processor that is present in GBA systems...


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## the_randomizer (Jan 30, 2017)

BARNWEY said:


> They use DS mode to emulate the slot 2 hardware, even though it does use the Arm7 processor that is present in GBA systems...



But then again, the DS emulation is very bare bones, has no save state support either.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 30, 2017)

Sliter said:


> if I make a Mario art, they have the right to use it even without consulting me (btw sega did stuff alike with sonic :v lololo) It not a good thing to do with who make the stuuf but are their right here :/


No. Rights do not automatically revert to them without something making it happen (most likely a court or at least a lawyer). Chances of you being able to keep such a work if you do get legal types involved is slim but it is certainly not automatic, unless they have a agreement you released it under (see something like the youtube stuff they did, or perhaps the star trek fan films stuff). If nothing else what happens in the case of a contested work? Alternatively what happens if you work falls under some kind of fair use/fair dealing laws?


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## Sliter (Jan 30, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> No. Rights do not automatically revert to them without something making it happen (most likely a court or at least a lawyer). Chances of you being able to keep such a work if you do get legal types involved is slim but it is certainly not automatic, unless they have a agreement you released it under (see something like the youtube stuff they did, or perhaps the star trek fan films stuff). If nothing else what happens in the case of a contested work? Alternatively what happens if you work falls under some kind of fair use/fair dealing laws?


hmm well idk :B 
I was just thinking one time.. I wanted a lonlon milk label texture but could not find it anywhere, so I made it myself and let it in DA, some people found it and started using on their crafts to sell and not even asked/ told me, I got very sad and angry about this that time, but I have no rights at the lonlon milk thing, as a fanwork would be ice to be credited at least  but what I could do more than saying I wasn't happy? :x now if was an original work I know I could go and do something about...
Back to the rom part even with the changed thing (that I don't know exactly what is since no audio here lol), it still the game that was ripped from the cart one time and still nintendo work, but they got from someone that ripped it illegally xD


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## migles (Jan 30, 2017)

woa.. in fact i kinda thought about how weird is how we can easily inject the games, and the VC console is pretty similair how emulators work; it has the emulator itself, a config file and the rom...
it's not the game with added code to make it work on the new hardware.. it's actually an emulator that we can swap out the rom file and make it play virtually any nes game...

so yeah... this is interesting cuz nintendo barely did something.. they probably grabbed most code and ideas from emulators made by other people..


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## Burnt Lasagna (Jan 30, 2017)

People have known the VC uses iNES headers for as long as NAND dumps were possible on Wii.
Someone makes a YouTube video about it almost 10 years later and a bunch of sites act like it's breaking news.


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## Metoroid0 (Feb 1, 2017)

Cylent1 said:


> Nintendo Downloaded Super Mario Bros from Internet and Sold it back to you as Virtual Console Rom.
> Here is the Proof!



not to me...


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## Cylent1 (Feb 1, 2017)

Metoroid0 said:


> not to me...


I'm happy for you!


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## 8BitWonder (Feb 1, 2017)

But if they own the rights to the game, aren't they allowed to download it and any other application they've made?
Forgive me if I'm missing something but I really don't see what everyone is so riled up about here.


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## Vipera (Feb 1, 2017)

Burnt Lasagna said:


> People have known the VC uses iNES headers for as long as NAND dumps were possible on Wii.
> Someone makes a YouTube video about it almost 10 years later and a bunch of sites act like it's breaking news.


That's general mass of people for you.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Feb 1, 2017)

This is kind of a shocker. Nintendo should be able to have copies of their own games than to download roms ported to PC by others. Now, with this known it just makes the Mini NES and VC NES roms kind of dull and pointless ever so more.


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## Rick Astley (Feb 1, 2017)

If they own the original game, i'm okay
if not, god this is a problem, gonna call some lawyers!!


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## InsaneNutter (Feb 1, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Now, with this known it just makes the Mini NES and VC NES roms kind of dull and pointless ever so more.



How does it make them pointless? people are buying the Mini NES and VC NES games as they wish to play NES games on that platform.

Sure given Nintendo's stance on roms it is hypocritical, i can't really see how it changes anything else though.


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## Bent (Feb 1, 2017)

Burnt Lasagna said:


> People have known the VC uses iNES headers for as long as NAND dumps were possible on Wii.
> Someone makes a YouTube video about it almost 10 years later and a bunch of sites act like it's breaking news.


Exactly.  We noticed this years ago at no-intro when analyzing the NES roms in Animal Crossing.  At this point, an iNES header is a convenient way to describe an NES cart dump, and is the most widely supported. It makes sense Nintendo would use the format.  Interestingly, in Animal Crossing there is an FDS game, when that was analyzed it used a different format that most other FDS game dumps, and had to be reverse engineered.  They must not have felt the community format was adequate, which is now the general feeling about the old FDS dumps.


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## sarkwalvein (Feb 1, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> This is kind of a shocker. Nintendo should be able to have copies of their own games than to download roms ported to PC by others. Now, with this known it just makes the Mini NES and VC NES roms kind of dull and pointless ever so more.


Why?
It is the same shit, they are only using the iNES format because it was easier to do so.
They didn't even make the emulators, it is all outsourced.
Probably the developers of the emulators were already familiar with the iNES format.
Sure it was cheaper to get the ROM already in that format that to reconvert whatever format Nintendo stores it in.
It is still an emulator machine, designed by a third company (not Nintendo) and paid by Nintendo.
How does it make it more or less dull if they use iNES headers? It is as dull as it always was. It doesn't change a thing.


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## GreenUFO13 (Feb 1, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Though I am the last one to praise the VC emulation for anything really, and this may speak to a certain mindset that is pervasive within that, I am not seeing the gain for them to build a dumping tool or, assuming it was hard, go through procurement for the ROM images over downloading it.
> At least when official game support forums suggest cracked versions (usually when some beleaguered intern they have manning it slips up), or somewhere like gog uses a cracked version we can have a little giggle. This really does seem like a non event, and an amusing bit of trivia for the GDC talk* mentioned in the video.
> 
> *link because it is actually a great talk
> ...


Why? Because since Nintendo is the creator of SMB then they should have archives of either the game or the source code meaning they don't NEED to use INES Headers.


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## sarkwalvein (Feb 1, 2017)

GreenUFO13 said:


> Why? Because since Nintendo is the creator of SMB then they should have archives of either the game or the source code meaning they don't NEED to use INES Headers.


They don't need to, but it is more convenient so why wouldn't they?


sarkwalvein said:


> Why?
> It is the same shit, they are only using the iNES format because it was easier to do so.
> They didn't even make the emulators, it is all outsourced.
> Probably the developers of the emulators were already familiar with the iNES format.
> ...


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## FAST6191 (Feb 1, 2017)

GreenUFO13 said:


> Why? Because since Nintendo is the creator of SMB then they should have archives of either the game or the source code meaning they don't NEED to use INES Headers.


Do a search for games lost source code and be prepared to be surprised then. Not to mention fun things like http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/167392/sad_but_true_we_cant_prove_when_.php
Beyond that I imagine NES mario was likely all done in assembly.

Equally if they have backups it might not be in such a convenient form and instead be the stuff used to burn ROM chips, and you can guarantee the intern tasked with that might will up and leave out a bank or something, to say nothing of maybe getting a delay as you get confirmed as an authorised dev (if it is indeed the third party dev as the video mentioned). Instead of that you download a ROM and work with that, nobody is hurt, no code has to be borrowed and nobody is likely to be worried.


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## gamesquest1 (Feb 1, 2017)

The 3ds and wiiu emulator used the newer tnes format, basically the same crap but tweaked to not be the same as the community.

The truth is they copied a header, the guy in the video is acting like every single copy of MARIO would be different, the rom on one cart is the same as any other (with the exception of cart revisions) sure they could probably order it prg/chr or chr/prg, but again 50/50 chance

When we get down to it, they downloaded a copy of their own game, or copied a header format, idk if there was any copyright or anything applied to the Ines header format, but in regards to the game......the game is theirs, even if they bought it off a pirate in a Tokyo market, they still own the right to sell it


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## Metoroid0 (Feb 2, 2017)

8BitWonder said:


> But if they own the rights to the game, aren't they allowed to download it and any other application they've made?
> Forgive me if I'm missing something but I really don't see what everyone is so riled up about here.





Vipera said:


> That's general mass of people for you.


If thats their game, why dont they use their own rom that they saved? If they used downloaded rom that mean they have no rom of their own which means if there are no rom dumps that "general mass" collected, nintendo wouldnt have old games of their own an wouldnt sell it to you, the rom dump that they downloaded from internet, the same one you can dl for free.... But its strange


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## FAST6191 (Feb 2, 2017)

Various people already pondered that.

Assuming it was a third party putting together the emulator pack for it then they might have had to call up Nintendo (and maybe have to find the specific archive department within Nintendo), possibly deal with language barriers, get authorised to get a copy, get the copy and then put it in the pack. Or they could just as easily download it from the internet and save themselves the hassle, harming nobody in the process.

They might well have a version of the ROM, it could however be separate chips images and then get to put it together. Not so bad for super mario apparently but other NES games that could be more tedious for.

Also while I can download it for free I may not be legally entitled to do so where I live (super mario brothers very much being within copyright still), and in almost no cases will I be legally entitled to do so if I don't own a copy of the game.

Beyond that if they did not have a digital copy of the game they could also find a copy out there in the wild and dump it again. Quite often see companies buy an example of an older product of theirs. Or if you prefer there have been many cases of a company with an old film finding the laser disc version is the best they can get their hands on (anime is a fairly good case study for this) so they rip that and then remaster it for DVD or something. Functionally I am not seeing the difference really.


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## fatsquirrel (Feb 2, 2017)

Send them cease and desist letter god damn it


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## Nikki_swap (Feb 2, 2017)

With Nintendo seizeing ROM downloading sites in the past, I wouldn't doubt if they kept copies of those said roms.


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