# Nintendo explains why SNES games Are New3DS exclusive.



## BurningDesire (Mar 11, 2016)

> “As previously announced, New Nintendo 3DS has an improved CPU, which enables Super NES games to run on the system with quality results,” Game Informer was told by a Nintendo representative. “The Super NES games also include Perfect-Pixel mode, which allows players to see their games in their original TV resolution and aspect resolution.”



They have a lot of explaining to do *cough BlargSNES *cough* 





​Source


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## Dartz150 (Mar 11, 2016)

Asuming themselves believe that the new3DS has higher resoultion than o3DS... such LOL


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## •Citrus• (Mar 11, 2016)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Nintendo use a software renderer while BlargSNES uses a hardware renderer?

If this is the case, then there's really no explanation needed.


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## koim (Mar 11, 2016)

It's not like that horse has not already been beaten to death...
The few things to say about it have been perfectly summed up by @DiscostewSM:

"Getting rather annoyed by people claiming SNES games can be emulated perfectly/accurately on the o3DS. It really needs to stop"

"As one of the contributors to blargSNES, the only reason why it can run many games at 60fps on an o3DS is because it is not only heavily cycle-inaccurate, but it is also using the GPU for hardware rendering. Nintendo is using software-rendering, which is the most accurate, yet, process-intensive method.

Hardware rendering works by rendering each and every map tile and sprite (each split into 8x8 pixels cels, because that's how the SNES works) as a pair of polygons. Each "unique" tile scanned (from left to right, top scanline to bottom of the frame) has to be converted from the SNES's 2/4/8-bitplane form into a 16-bit direct-color, z-order curve format (because the GPU lacks paletted texture support), and stored into a texture cache. Changing of hte palette means any tiles that used the palette in that range has to be reconverted. The lack of paletted textures means that palette effects that show mid-frame can't happen (excludes the "background color). DKC's first level shows this with the trees, though more recent blargSNES builds has the background color gradient working, not the trees. There are other numerous effects that are missing, but we continue looking for alternatives (but RL has been in the way).

In a worst-case scenario for non-hi-res modes, you're looking at around 14.8k polygons per BG per frame when there is scanline alterations being done. Most games use Mode 1, which has 3 BG layers, so a worst-case scenario there would be ~2.66 million polygons per second. Seem like something the 3DS can handle, but take into account that the polygon list has to be generated per frame, which means the list can't reside in VRAM (nor can the texture cache), so it's all running off the main RAM.

Be aware that while we may not care for inaccuracies for free stuff, we do care when it comes to paying for them."


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## Ryupower (Mar 11, 2016)

there are a few game that will NOT or have a hard time running with homebrew
enhancement chips can have problem with homebrew emulator  or o3ds, may not run the games at the point where Nintendo like them, with the n3ds, Nintendo has more to work with that make the Snes game run how Nintendo like them
and 
they need a way to get people to buy the n3ds, for more the just 2 real n3ds only games (BoI and Xenoblade Chronicles 3d)


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 12, 2016)

yeah right how come BlargSNES works fine on the old 3ds than huh nintendo? lies just so you can buy the new3ds. can't blame them though no one wants the wiiu so they have to try and sell something


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## LarBob (Mar 12, 2016)

BlargSNES is much less accurate though.
Also it's an additional factor for people deciding if they should get a N3DS model.
An iPod Touch 4g doesn't run iOS 7.x even though the fairly similar iPhone 4 can. It's trying to get people to buy the new one.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Bladexdsl said:


> yeah right how come BlargSNES works fine on the old 3ds than huh nintendo? lies just so you can buy the new3ds. can't blame them though no one wants the wiiu so they have to try and sell something


BlargSNES is way less accurate and cuts corners to work well on O3DS.


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## Supster131 (Mar 12, 2016)

I can see this thread getting salty real soon..

I mean, there's already some salty people here.

Edit: Told you! Salt! Just look at the posts right under mine.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 12, 2016)

LarBob said:


> BlargSNES is much less accurate though.
> Also it's an additional factor for people deciding if they should get a N3DS model.
> An iPod Touch 4g doesn't run iOS 7.x even though the fairly similar iPhone 4 can. It's trying to get people to buy the new one.
> 
> ...


it still works they could make it work if they wanted to but nope you have to buy yet another 3ds for the 3rd time if you want them. they can shove their new 3ds


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 12, 2016)

BurningDesire said:


> They have a lot of explaining to do *cough BlargSNES *cough*​



Please learn how blargSNES does what it does before using it in as evidence, especially against anything that involves "perfect" in it.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 12, 2016)

Supster131 said:


> I can see this thread getting salty real soon..
> 
> I mean, there's already some salty people here.
> 
> Edit: Told you! Salt! Just look at the posts right under mine.


Salty dragons.


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## loco365 (Mar 12, 2016)

DiscostewSM summed it up perfectly. It's because BlargSNES is not accurate and shortcuts are used that it actually runs worth a shit on the O3DS. Nintendo's emulator is far more accurate, so there's no sloppy speed hacks, and everything is done software-wise. Stop hating on Nintendo for doing this - it's not their fault. Us having unofficial emulators that have more system access than the official emulators do have spoiled us.

Edit: Let me make a point here: Try playing all the popular SNES titles on Retroarch's best SNES core. It's not going to run terribly well. I tried running some games and they lagged like no tomorrow. It's the same story here.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 12, 2016)

Team Fail said:


> DiscostewSM summed it up perfectly. It's because BlargSNES is not accurate and shortcuts are used that it actually runs worth a shit on the O3DS. Nintendo's emulator is far more accurate, so there's no sloppy speed hacks, and everything is done software-wise. Stop hating on Nintendo for doing this - it's not their fault. *Us having unofficial emulators that have more system access than the official emulators do have spoiled us.*



Very much so. Take for instance the DS. Official developers do not have access to the ARM7 in DS mode outside of Nintendo's own API. They can't program for it, whereas for us with homebrew tools, we can, because we don't follow the same rules. I believe the same goes for the PSP and its Media Engine chip, which is the reason why the SNES emulator for that runs fairly well.


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## Supster131 (Mar 12, 2016)

funnystory said:


> It isn't logical at all,I reported your post because it is unnecessarily rude. I could play snes games on my 2005 psp.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Well, the PSP was quite powerful (for it's time at least).

Also, how am I being salty? I have a n3DS, never even owned a o3DS. You're the one being salty  Returning a n3DS just because of a SNES emulator?


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## funnystory (Mar 12, 2016)

Supster131 said:


> Well, the PSP was quite powerful (for it's time at least).
> 
> Also, how am I being salty? I have a n3DS, never even owned a o3DS. You're the one being salty  Returning a n3DS just because of a SNES emulator?



No because it isn't worth 200$ for the upgrade. Nintendo constantly scams its consumers by delivering shovelware and inferior products. All the nintendo systems after the gamecube are underpowered,the Wii U was a catastrophe. Nintendo is not treating its consumers right.


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## loco365 (Mar 12, 2016)

funnystory said:


> No because it isn't worth 200$ for the upgrade. Nintendo constantly scams its consumers by delivering shovelware and inferior products. All the nintendo systems after the gamecube are underpowered,the Wii U was a catastrophe. Nintendo is not treating its consumers right.


Well, have fun running Starfox on your O3DS. It doesn't even run well on a N3DS.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 12, 2016)

(note in advance: I don't really care either way: I have an original 3DS somewhere under the dust that I can't even bother to hack. For snes games, I'll go with a computer or my smartphone).

Okay...I can understand why the stronger CPU is needed to create a pixel-perfect, 60 frames per second emulator of any given SNES game. However, I'm very sceptical about that being the reason nintendo isn't releasing snes 3DSware (that's the name, right?  ) for the original 3DS. I mean...is that really what the audience wants? Christ...it's not like there was an FPS meter on the SNES, and if there was, I doubt it'd say 60 FPS all the freaking time. Of course nintendo is capable enough to build a snes emulator on the original 3DS. Yes, it would have to cut some corners, but I don't exactly believe anyone would notice it unless they sit directly next to someone playing the same game on a n3DS. (note: this probably wouldn't go for all games - DKC and star fox might have some visible glitches - but I bet you'd need a magnifying glass or a timer to spot a difference between the average mario game).


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## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 12, 2016)

Taleweaver said:


> (note in advance: I don't really care either way: I have an original 3DS somewhere under the dust that I can't even bother to hack. For snes games, I'll go with a computer or my smartphone).
> 
> Okay...I can understand why the stronger CPU is needed to create a pixel-perfect, 60 frames per second emulator of any given SNES game. However, I'm very sceptical about that being the reason nintendo isn't releasing snes 3DSware (that's the name, right?  ) for the original 3DS. I mean...is that really what the audience wants? Christ...it's not like there was an FPS meter on the SNES, and if there was, I doubt it'd say 60 FPS all the freaking time. Of course nintendo is capable enough to build a snes emulator on the original 3DS. Yes, it would have to cut some corners, but I don't exactly believe anyone would notice it unless they sit directly next to someone playing the same game on a n3DS. (note: this probably wouldn't go for all games - DKC and star fox might have some visible glitches - but I bet you'd need a magnifying glass or a timer to spot a difference between the average mario game).


I guess it's ultimately because Nintendo doesn't want to cut corners.


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## Pluupy (Mar 12, 2016)

What is the n3DS image? Is that real, or just a quirky photoshop edit for the sake of relevance?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 12, 2016)

Oh dear god. Shut the hell up about blargsnes already. They are NOT the same God damned thing. 

Nintendo is doing something to preserve the game in its original format. Blargsnes relies on some HEAVY modifications. 

THINK about it.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 12, 2016)

Pluupy said:


> What is the n3DS image? Is that real, or just a quirky photoshop edit for the sake of relevance?


It's quirky.


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## James310 (Mar 12, 2016)

Not another thread again about this...First, Blargsnes is missing tons of features and have tons of bugs, sure Super Mario world plays well but switch to another game youll likely get bad graphics,freezing or worse, this is why it's new 3ds exclusive


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 12, 2016)

Here's another thing. If you think blargsnes is a fine example. Port bsnes (accuracy) to the o3ds and see how well your games run. 

I'll wait..


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## Critical_Impact (Mar 12, 2016)

If the original PSP can play PS1 games the original 3DS should be able to play SNES games.
Clock for clock it's roughly the same in terms of the speed differential. (The consoles are around 10x faster than what they are trying to emulate)
Also Nintendo made both the 3DS and SNES, they should have a fairly detailed idea on how both consoles work, enough that they should be able to program something that can simulate the SNES hardware using the 3DS hardware.
Honestly I don't think anyone who has an original 3DS would really care that their game was not pixel perfect. To me this reeks of being a cash grab by Nintendo. That said, it makes me wonder if they'd make more money from selling SNES games to both 3DS types or more from everyone upgrading to the N3DS.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 12, 2016)

Critical_Impact said:


> If the original PSP can play PS1 games the original 3DS should be able to play SNES games.
> Clock for clock it's roughly the same in terms of the speed differential. (The consoles are around 10x faster than what they are trying to emulate)
> Also Nintendo made both the 3DS and SNES, they should have a fairly detailed idea on how both consoles work, enough that they should be able to program something that can simulate the SNES hardware using the 3DS hardware.
> Honestly I don't think anyone who has an original 3DS would really care that their game was not pixel perfect. To me this reeks of being a cash grab by Nintendo. That said, it makes me wonder if they'd make more money from selling SNES games to both 3DS types or more from everyone upgrading to the N3DS.


It's because the SNES' GPU is too fucking weird for the o3DS to handle.


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## KingVamp (Mar 12, 2016)

What I find funny is that Nintendo let a game cut corners to be on the O3ds.  Seen a lot of people saying this game should have been a N3ds exclusive, as if they have to buy it on the O3ds.  Hyrule Warriors is the game I'm talking about. Now they decided to keep games a N3ds exclusive,  to not cut corners and people still complain? 

Not to mention,  people wanted more exclusives for the N3ds, anyway.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 12, 2016)

KingVamp said:


> What I find funny is that Nintendo let a game cut corners to be on the O3ds.  Seen a lot of people saying this game should have been a N3ds exclusive, as if they have to buy it on the O3ds.  Hyrule Warriors is the game I'm talking about. Now they decided to keep games a N3ds exclusive,  to not cut corners and people still complain?
> 
> Not to mention,  people wanted more exclusives for the N3ds, anyway.


Yeah, that whole situation is kind of stupid.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 12, 2016)

Critical_Impact said:


> If the original PSP can play PS1 games the original 3DS should be able to play SNES games.
> Clock for clock it's roughly the same in terms of the speed differential. (The consoles are around 10x faster than what they are trying to emulate)
> Also Nintendo made both the 3DS and SNES, they should have a fairly detailed idea on how both consoles work, enough that they should be able to program something that can simulate the SNES hardware using the 3DS hardware.
> Honestly I don't think anyone who has an original 3DS would really care that their game was not pixel perfect. To me this reeks of being a cash grab by Nintendo. That said, it makes me wonder if they'd make more money from selling SNES games to both 3DS types or more from everyone upgrading to the N3DS.



Pretty sure PSP benefits greatly from having the same CPU architecture base as the PS1, not to mention PS1 graphics are done by rendering primitives to a buffer in VRAM, which pretty much all devices do nowadays. The SNES has practically no similarities to the 3DS, in CPU architecture, in graphic rendering, etc.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 12, 2016)

KingVamp said:


> What I find funny is that Nintendo let a game cut corners to be on the O3ds.  Seen a lot of people saying this game should have been a N3ds exclusive, as if they have to buy it on the O3ds.  Hyrule Warriors is the game I'm talking about. Now they decided to keep games a N3ds exclusive,  to not cut corners and people still complain?
> 
> Not to mention,  people wanted more exclusives for the N3ds, anyway.


I'm not familiar with the hyrule warriors situation, but am I correct in thinking that the "cutting corners" in hyrule warriors goes a bit beyond a few pixels not being rendered perfect?

I'm curious what you mean to say with your last sentence. Are you saying that games that can legitimately be bought and played on wii, wiiu, super nintendo (!), and illegally played on more devices than you can throw a stick at...can somehow still be called "exclusive"? 
C'mon, dude. I don't want to debunk your opinion, but you've got to admit it's pretty far fetched. It's like ubisoft or EA deciding to limit their PC games to top-of-the-line alienware PC's "because we can't guarantee 60FPS at all times on anything below that".


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## FAST6191 (Mar 12, 2016)

Nintendo did not care much about accuracy in the past, going right back to the GBA and the classic NES/famicom mini stuff. 
If they want to switch up and claim accuracy is their new path in life then that is their prerogative I guess. Same deal if they had straight up said marketing stunt/can't be arsed (and take it as upping the ante on the trolling front). And yeah you can trot out things like on http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/...-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/ all day long I suppose to try to backstop your position.

That said I am still going to cough and call wanker like on that splatoon voice chat thing last year, the sony PS3 can't support rumble however many years ago ( http://www.videogamer.com/news/playstation_3_controller_loses_vibration.html ) and so on and so on.


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## Hiccup (Mar 12, 2016)

BurningDesire said:


> They have a lot of explaining to do *cough BlargSNES *cough*





Nintendo said:


> quality results


*cough*


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## SuperSVGA (Mar 12, 2016)

This is still my favorite image whenever I would see whenever these topics come up in the past:


Spoiler


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## KingVamp (Mar 12, 2016)

Taleweaver said:


> I'm not familiar with the hyrule warriors situation, but am I correct in thinking that the "cutting corners" in hyrule warriors goes a bit beyond a few pixels not being rendered perfect?
> 
> I'm curious what you mean to say with your last sentence. Are you saying that games that can legitimately be bought and played on wii, wiiu, super nintendo (!), and illegally played on more devices than you can throw a stick at...can somehow still be called "exclusive"?
> C'mon, dude. I don't want to debunk your opinion, but you've got to admit it's pretty far fetched. It's like ubisoft or EA deciding to limit their PC games to top-of-the-line alienware PC's "because we can't guarantee 60FPS at all times on anything below that".


Obviously meant exclusively between the 3ds and New 3ds, but I'm pretty sure you already knew that. 

Except people are so petty, I'm pretty sure people will complain about the O3ds Snes not running as well. Probably by some of the same people complaining now.


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## Pluupy (Mar 12, 2016)

How come old 3DSs can play GBA games but not SNES games?


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## insidexdeath (Mar 12, 2016)

Pluupy said:


> How come old 3DSs can play GBA games but not SNES games?


Because GBA hardware is already within the 3DS' DS mode.


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## The Catboy (Mar 12, 2016)

BlargSNES may not run perfectly, but it still runs. Honestly, this just seems like a shitty move trying to force users to upgrade instead of spending a few extra minutes to make the emulator work. If hackers have the power to make a playable emulator, then Nintendo should have more power to make it work better, it's their product, no excuses.


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## Sheimi (Mar 13, 2016)

I wonder how it runs on the o3ds with the n3ds clock speed.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 13, 2016)

Sheimi said:


> I wonder how it runs on the o3ds with the n3ds clock speed.


Sounds dangerous.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Crystal the Glaceon said:


> BlargSNES may not run perfectly, but it still runs. Honestly, this just seems like a shitty move trying to force users to upgrade instead of spending a few extra minutes to make the emulator work. If hackers have the power to make a playable emulator, then Nintendo should have more power to make it work better, it's their product, no excuses.



No. Not the same thing. They *could* have lowered the quality of their work to release on the O3DS. Personally, I'm glad they didn't. I prefer quality over quantity.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 13, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> BlargSNES may not run perfectly, but it still runs. Honestly, this just seems like a shitty move trying to force users to upgrade instead of spending a few extra minutes to make the emulator work. If hackers have the power to make a playable emulator, then Nintendo should have more power to make it work better, it's their product, no excuses.



So you want Nintendo to make something as inaccurate as blargSNES just so they could get it running on o3DS, and put a price tag on it? Because that's likely what would happen, and they'd likely be scorned even more if that happened. They understand their hardware, but the o3DS by nature was not designed with SNES emulation in mind, and should they have tried anyways, they'd be sacrificing the very things that are important in official products. Accuracy, stability, etc.


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## woshidashibi0 (Mar 13, 2016)

And now I'm using my fatPSP to play SNES's games,LOL.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 13, 2016)

woshidashibi0 said:


> And now I'm using my fatPSP to play SNES's games,LOL.



That's great, but one thing to note is that if an official SNES emulator was made for the PSP, it wouldn't run nearly as well as (what I believe to be) the best homebrew one because that one more or less hijacks into the Media Engine chip for improved performance. A chip that is off-limits to official developers except through official APIs by the platform maker for the specific purpose the makers intended it for, much like the ARM7 in the DS.


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## woshidashibi0 (Mar 13, 2016)

DiscostewSM said:


> That's great, but one thing to note is that if an official SNES emulator was made for the PSP, it wouldn't run nearly as well as (what I believe to be) the best homebrew one because that one more or less hijacks into the Media Engine chip for improved performance. A chip that is off-limits to official developers except through official APIs by the platform maker for the specific purpose the makers intended it for, much like the ARM7 in the DS.


No wonder.


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## Xexyz (Mar 13, 2016)

I'll stick to the PSP for heavier emulation/games, SNES, PS1, GBA ... etc 3DS for DS games, NES, and GBC.


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## The Catboy (Mar 13, 2016)

DiscostewSM said:


> So you want Nintendo to make something as inaccurate as blargSNES just so they could get it running on o3DS, and put a price tag on it? Because that's likely what would happen, and they'd likely be scorned even more if that happened. They understand their hardware, but the o3DS by nature was not designed with SNES emulation in mind, and should they have tried anyways, they'd be sacrificing the very things that are important in official products. Accuracy, stability, etc.





Mchief298 said:


> No. Not the same thing. They *could* have lowered the quality of their work to release on the O3DS. Personally, I'm glad they didn't. I prefer quality over quantity.


So you mean to tell me, that my PSP, running a single-core MIPS CPU, is able to run SNES games at a very playable speed, but Nintendo can't figure out how to get SNES games on a dual-core ARM11 cpu. They were able to figure out how to run NES and SNES games on the GBA when both the homebrew emulators for the GBA were complete shit. 
Not to mention this is the same company that released Hyrule Warriors on the old3DS, basically releasing an extremely low quality version of the game ccompared to it's new3DS counterpart. If they are going to tell me they "care about quality," then turn around and release lower quality games on the same platform, it becomes very obvious that this isn't about quality control anymore.


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## Blaze163 (Mar 13, 2016)

I did briefly consider upgrading to the New 3DS XL and trading in my old XL, but the simple fact is there's what, two games that actually need the hardware? Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors (assuming you want Hyrule Warriors to run at any sort of pace and have 3D). It's nowhere near worth spending £140+ on a minor upgrade that affects very little, especially with the NX on the horizon for a proper new system. 

As for SNES games only running on the N3DS models, Nintendo can go fuck a duck. They can spin any web of bullshit they like, the simple fact is that they COULD have figured out a way to get SNES games working on the standard models, but it's a business decision to shift a few more N3DS units before they become obselete. I'd actually have more respect for them if they'd been honest and admitted it was a purely business decision instead of making up a load of bollocks about it being a technical issue. If hackers can get the games working, Nintendo should have no difficulty at all. And if they do, then maybe they should just hire the hackers and sack whatever illiterate monkey people they have for programmers right now.


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## mgrev (Mar 13, 2016)

LarBob said:


> BlargSNES is much less accurate though.
> Also it's an additional factor for people deciding if they should get a N3DS model.
> An iPod Touch 4g doesn't run iOS 7.x even though the fairly similar iPhone 4 can. It's trying to get people to buy the new one.
> 
> ...


the ipod touch 4g has 256 MB of ram, while the iphone 4 has 512 MB. this is the difference


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## LarBob (Mar 13, 2016)

mgrev said:


> the ipod touch 4g has 256 MB of ram, while the iphone 4 has 512 MB. this is the difference


I know, I was just trying to think of an example. Thanks though


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## sj33 (Mar 13, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> As for SNES games only running on the N3DS models, Nintendo can go fuck a duck. They can spin any web of bullshit they like, the simple fact is that they COULD have figured out a way to get SNES games working on the standard models, but it's a business decision to shift a few more N3DS units before they become obselete. I'd actually have more respect for them if they'd been honest and admitted it was a purely business decision instead of making up a load of bollocks about it being a technical issue. If hackers can get the games working, Nintendo should have no difficulty at all. And if they do, then maybe they should just hire the hackers and sack whatever illiterate monkey people they have for programmers right now.


One of the co-developers of blargSnes has explained in this very thread why it couldn't be done on the regular O3DS, and you still don't believe them?


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## WiiUBricker (Mar 13, 2016)

The whining is strong in this one. It's not like the N3DS suddenly is the only way to play SNES games. And besides, how many of the whiners would actually *buy* SNES games if they were released on O3DS instead of just pirating them as usual?


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## Blaze163 (Mar 13, 2016)

sj33 said:


> One of the co-developers of blargSnes has explained in this very thread why it couldn't be done on the regular O3DS, and you still don't believe them?



I'm saying that Nintendo makes the damn things, I'm sure they could figure it out if they weren't trying so desperately to shift as many N3DS units before the NX hits. Y'know, ignoring the legions of people who don't see the point of a tiny upgrade to the N3DS but would happily give them £7 or so to play Super Metroid.


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## sj33 (Mar 13, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> I'm saying that Nintendo makes the damn things, I'm sure they could figure it out if they weren't trying so desperately to shift as many N3DS units before the NX hits. Y'know, ignoring the legions of people who don't see the point of a tiny upgrade to the N3DS but would happily give them £7 or so to play Super Metroid.


I see it the other way - it makes no sense for Nintendo to cripple their VC sales by only making their games work on a small subset of the install base.


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## UltraHurricane (Mar 13, 2016)

and for those questioning why the o3DS can't do good SNES emulation while the PSP can, go right on ahead and experience first hand how "good" SNES emulation is on PSP, with it's screen tearing, glitches, constant need for frameskips and Super FX games barely playable (if at all). Hell, i could never get Super Mario RPG to be playable.

sure it's possible for SNES VC on o3DS but i doubt it'll be very viable when they decide to put games like Star Fox or Yoshi's Island on the eshop and i doubt they can get the more advance SNES chip games up to VC-level quality on that hardware

what should actually irk you people is why Nintendo didn't have the foresight to beef up the original 3DS hardware for this sort of thing cause portable SNES and GBA VC is basically a license to print money right there


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## Blaze163 (Mar 13, 2016)

sj33 said:


> I see it the other way - it makes no sense for Nintendo to cripple their VC sales by only making their games work on a small subset of the install base.



The simple fact is this; I have a regular 3DS XL, as I'm sure most 3DS gamers do. Hardly anyone bothered with the upgrade because it's simply not worth it. So that's a huge chunk of the potential market that could quite enjoy the SNES games (I'm personally praying for a re-release of the original Starwing, or Starfox as you know it in the US) and we'd be happy to pay for them, especially if they were done as 3D Classics. It'd be nice to see one of the early attempts at a '3D' game actually be in 3D after all these years in the case of Starwing. But while we'll happily pay the £7 or so, nobody is gonna pay £140+ for a measly upgrade with no significant improvements as well. 

By focussing on their New 3DS customers instead of the considerably larger market with the full system family, they've shot themselves in the foot and lost thousands of potential sales.


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## Sakitoshi (Mar 13, 2016)

I'm going to say only one thing:
Frame Skip

Nintendo emulators are know for running without using frame skip at all. The games always run at the intended speed or even better (as is the case of N64 games at least on Wii U).
If you want a fair comparison of quality then go on and test homebrew emulators with 0 frame skip and see how slow everything move.

Now, I'm not trying to be disrespectful about homebrew emulators, I use them too, but if you make me choose I'll obviously go with the one without frame skipping.


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## sj33 (Mar 13, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> The simple fact is this; I have a regular 3DS XL, as I'm sure most 3DS gamers do. Hardly anyone bothered with the upgrade because it's simply not worth it. So that's a huge chunk of the potential market that could quite enjoy the SNES games (I'm personally praying for a re-release of the original Starwing, or Starfox as you know it in the US) and we'd be happy to pay for them, especially if they were done as 3D Classics. It'd be nice to see one of the early attempts at a '3D' game actually be in 3D after all these years in the case of Starwing. But while we'll happily pay the £7 or so, nobody is gonna pay £140+ for a measly upgrade with no significant improvements as well.
> 
> By focussing on their New 3DS customers instead of the considerably larger market with the full system family, they've shot themselves in the foot and lost thousands of potential sales.


Nobody is doubting that the New 3DS isn't worth the upgrade (it's pretty much only worth it for homebrew, hence there are a disproportionate amount of New 3DS users on here). People doubting the assumption that this is a cynical move by Nintendo to force people to upgrade. It's clearly technical necessity.


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## Blaze163 (Mar 13, 2016)

sj33 said:


> Nobody is doubting that the New 3DS isn't worth the upgrade (it's pretty much only worth it for homebrew, hence there are a disproportionate amount of New 3DS users on here). People doubting the assumption that this is a cynical move by Nintendo to force people to upgrade. It's clearly technical necessity.



A 'technical necessity' that professional game designers and programmers couldn't figure out for the sake of considerably enhanced sales potential? I can understand why the N3DS' slightly enhanced chipset is needed to run games like Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors, but SNES games? Seriously? Not meaning to sound too much like Jeremy Clarkson, but how hard can it be?


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## smf (Mar 13, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> I'm saying that Nintendo makes the damn things



That doesn't give them magical ability.



Blaze163 said:


> I'm sure they could figure it out if they weren't trying so desperately to shift as many N3DS units before the NX hits.



It is more likely that they spent money on writing an emulator in a way that will run on both the N3DS and NX and spending more money writing one specifically for the O3DS isn't cost effective.

The only cost effective solution would be for them to buy BlargSNES and pay for it to be improved. I'm not convinced you would like that either.


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## Blaze163 (Mar 13, 2016)

smf said:


> That doesn't give them magical ability.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why not do what Sega did with the Sonic Classics Collection on DS? Basically steal the Jenesis emulator. Not like the hackers who made it have any right to kick up a fuss.


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## guitarheroknight (Mar 13, 2016)

Meh, Im just glad I can play Terranigma on the go.


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## sj33 (Mar 13, 2016)

You said it yourself. Given the 'considerably enhanced sales potential', they would have done it if they could.



Blaze163 said:


> Why not do what Sega did with the Sonic Classics Collection on DS? Basically steal the Jenesis emulator. Not like the hackers who made it have any right to kick up a fuss.


Did you play it? There's your answer. It was awful. The framerate was terrible.


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## smf (Mar 13, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> Why not do what Sega did with the Sonic Classics Collection on DS? Basically steal the Jenesis emulator. Not like the hackers who made it have any right to kick up a fuss.



AFAIK the developer went to work for sega and sold it to them, stopping development of the free version in the process. Which is what I was suggesting as the only sane O3DS solution.

It would have been hard for them to steal jEnesisDS, as the source doesn't seem to have ever been made available.

blargSNES source is released under the GPL, this gives the authors a pretty good starting point for kicking up a fuss. Just because you are a hacker writing software that can be used for copyright infringing purposes, doesn't change your legal rights.


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## izy (Mar 13, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> I'm saying that Nintendo makes the damn things, I'm sure they could figure it out if they weren't trying so desperately to shift as many N3DS units before the NX hits. Y'know, ignoring the legions of people who don't see the point of a tiny upgrade to the N3DS but would happily give them £7 or so to play Super Metroid.



If they could figure it out they would have done it already which is why they have not. Besides there is a major difference between a game running 60fps on a New3DS vs 15fps on an O3DS.

Look at Blargsnes even with Cutting Corners and hardware acceleration you STILL WONT GET 60FPS on most games.

And about Ninty making the games, people have been emulating for almost 20Years not including Hardware clones.
Developers have had plenty of time optimize emulation but like Blargs Co dev says its down to the hardware not being up to scratch.

The only way nintendo would make a SNES VC for O3DS would to be cutting major corners.
The whole point of the VC is to play them exactly as they were inended, thats why you dont get widescreen options and the streching option is minimal and can be turned off.

But hey argue away its not like we post on a forum where people buy the Sky3DS twice yet wont get a CFW N3DS instead and will probably be complaining about this also lol


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 13, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> So you mean to tell me, that my PSP, running a single-core MIPS CPU, is able to run SNES games at a very playable speed, but Nintendo can't figure out how to get SNES games on a dual-core ARM11 cpu. They were able to figure out how to run NES and SNES games on the GBA when both the homebrew emulators for the GBA were complete shit.
> Not to mention this is the same company that released Hyrule Warriors on the old3DS, basically releasing an extremely low quality version of the game ccompared to it's new3DS counterpart. If they are going to tell me they "care about quality," then turn around and release lower quality games on the same platform, it becomes very obvious that this isn't about quality control anymore.



Those SNES games on the GBA are not emulated. They are ports. As for NES games on the GBA like the NES Classic Series, those are emulated, but those are also not nearly as demanding and actually have the benefit of using the 2D hardware with no missing features (because they are simplistic, unlike the SNES), which offloads the entire graphic routine that normally would require rendering each pixel by software.

To requote what I said a couple of hours prior to your response.



DiscostewSM said:


> That's great, but one thing to note is that if an official SNES emulator was made for the PSP, it wouldn't run nearly as well as (what I believe to be) the best homebrew one because that one more or less hijacks into the Media Engine chip for improved performance. A chip that is off-limits to official developers except through official APIs by the platform maker for the specific purpose the makers intended it for, much like the ARM7 in the DS.



Also note that the o3DS's dual-core has 70% of one of the cores dedicated to the OS. So it's really only 1.3 cores max, and that 0.3 is not really reliable. So what we're looking at here is practically 2x 333Mhz vs 1.3x 268Mhz in a vary vague comparison (because one is older and different from the other, but not necessarily weaker), where both of the additional support of the secondary processors/cores have a little disadvantage compared to the mains. And even with the SNES emulator on the PSP, it's still not as accurate as the one Nintendo made for n3DS.



Blaze163 said:


> A 'technical necessity' that professional game designers and programmers couldn't figure out for the sake of considerably enhanced sales potential? I can understand why the N3DS' slightly enhanced chipset is needed to run games like Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors, but SNES games? Seriously? Not meaning to sound too much like Jeremy Clarkson, but how hard can it be?



Running a port is completely different from emulating a game. With a port, you recompile and adjust the game itself to work on the target platform. Ports are "native" to the platform they run on. With emulation, the game remains unaltered. No recompilation, no adjustments. What is done instead is you have to program the platform to act like something it is not.



Blaze163 said:


> Why not do what Sega did with the Sonic Classics Collection on DS? Basically steal the Jenesis emulator. Not like the hackers who made it have any right to kick up a fuss.



Other than what was said about the author being hired by Sega for that, the Sonic Classic Collection relied on the DS's 2D hardware (an improvement of the GBA's 2D hardware), which as stated regarding NES emulation above, offloaded a LOT of processing time that would otherwise would have been forced onto the CPU. In the DS's (and GBA's) case, it would be impossible to emulate those systems at full speed, half, or even a quarter, if the 2D hardware did not exist on them. Guess what? That's how it is on the 3DS. It lacks any accessible 2D hardware, so everything has to either be software-rendered, or attempt to use the GPU to render all map/sprite tiles via polygons which lacks features present in the 2D hardware of the GBA/DS (which already differs from the SNES in a lot of ways).


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## Lumstar (Mar 14, 2016)

Blaze163 said:


> Why not do what Sega did with the Sonic Classics Collection on DS? Basically steal the Jenesis emulator. Not like the hackers who made it have any right to kick up a fuss.



Publicly-traded companies don't have the same luxury of anonymity as hackers. If caught stealing, it could cost them potentially gravely through lowered stock value, lost business deals, and the like.

Besides the acceptable standard of quality (in my opinion) is higher for a commercial release. I expect better performance from emulators I'm putting real money into.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 14, 2016)

edit. Missed that others had done things. I will leave this though.


Blaze163 said:


> Why not do what Sega did with the Sonic Classics Collection on DS? Basically steal the Jenesis emulator. Not like the hackers who made it have any right to kick up a fuss.


Yeah they would have the right -- emulation itself is not illegal or frowned upon in most places and thus they can license their work however they will. Should the authors have used certain techniques (see the underlying logic of clean room reverse engineering) then it could have got fun but by default emulation is just software and protected like other software. Unless you mean the license was permissive enough for Sega to do things, unlike say MAME until very recently or like pocketnes back on the GBA which did allow for commercial uses without many restrictions.
Also didn't they hire the dev of it to tweak it to their ends? Sega do have a bit of a history of drawing from the hacker, fan game and emulator dev communities.


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## VMM (Mar 14, 2016)

60 fps with 0 frameskip, it's that simple.
Having an perfectly accurate emulation of SNES is a bit demanding and 3DS is a fairly weak hardware.

You don't believe in me, fine, why don't you try playing Starfox or Megaman X3 on o3DS,
I was playing MMX3 on New 3DS and I experienced a lot of slowdowns on water levels.

Beside, why are everyone complaining now, these aren't the first exclusive titles to n3DS and probably won't be the last.
I wonder what havoc it would be if Nintendo made Pokémon Sun and Moon exclusive to New 3DS


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## hobbledehoy899 (Mar 14, 2016)

VMM said:


> I wonder what havoc it would be if Nintendo made Pokémon Sun and Moon exclusive to New 3DS


I would guess approximately "mmm whatcha smea"% of Pokémon would cry old tears.


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## VMM (Mar 15, 2016)

hobbledehoy899 said:


> I would guess approximately "mmm whatcha smea"% of Pokémon would cry old tears.



You know what, I actually would love to see Nintendo made them n3DS exclusive.
o3DS was outdated on day one. Pokémon XY and ORAS look bad and have no 3D outside battles and experience
so much lag inside battles it's not even funny; try making a triple battle online with 3D, you can almost count the frames on your fingers, it's really bad.
Every Pokémon fan expects an visual upgrade when going on next gen, but how to achieve that when XY and ORAS barely run on o3DS? Make it a n3DS exclusive. 
Of course there would be a lot of people whining about this decision but it, like there are people whining about SNES VC exclusive to n3DS, but I believe this decision would improve drastically the final result and offer us a Pokémon game with a visual quality and fluidity like never before


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## Supster131 (Mar 15, 2016)

VMM said:


> You know what, I actually would love to see Nintendo made them n3DS exclusive.
> o3DS was outdated on day one. Pokémon XY and ORAS look bad and have no 3D outside battles and experience
> so much lag inside battles it's not even funny; try making a triple battle online with 3D, you can almost count the frames on your fingers, it's really bad.
> Every Pokémon fan expects an visual upgrade when going on next gen, but how to achieve that when XY and ORAS barely run on o3DS? Make it a n3DS exclusive.
> Of course there would be a lot of people whining about this decision but it, like there are people whining about SNES VC exclusive to n3DS, but I believe this decision would improve drastically the final result and offer us a Pokémon game with a visual quality and fluidity like never before


Quality over quantity.

I partially agree. I would love having 3D everywhere (I'm one of those few people who love using the 3D on the 3DS).
I don't think it's a good idea cutting out the whole o3DS userbase though, a lot of people would most likely upgrade to a n3DS (due to it being Pokemon).

They should make it n3DS enhanced, similar to Hyrule Warriors. It runs better on the n3DS and also has 3D available. 3D is not available on the o3DS.


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## VMM (Mar 15, 2016)

Supster131 said:


> Quality over quantity.
> 
> I partially agree. I would love having 3D everywhere (I'm one of those few people who love using the 3D on the 3DS).
> I don't think it's a good idea cutting out the whole o3DS userbase though, a lot of people would most likely upgrade to a n3DS (due to it being Pokemon).
> ...



That's exactly what I'm expecting to happen, it's not actually bad and n3DS users will have a great benefit from a superior hardware, yet we'll still face some limitation due to o3DS compatibility. 

I just hope we n3DS users will be able to get a stable framerate, I'm not even asking for 60fps, if we have 30fps with no slowdowns that'll be ok, at least compared to what it is now. I also think 3D is mandatory, not that I care about 3D, but not using 3D on a machine that's been targeted especially for this is shameful.


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## Supster131 (Mar 15, 2016)

VMM said:


> That's exactly what I'm expecting to happen, it's not actually bad and n3DS users will have a great benefit from a superior hardware, yet we'll still face some limitation due to o3DS compatibility.
> 
> I just hope we n3DS users will be able to get a stable framerate, I'm not even asking for 60fps, if we have 30fps with no slowdowns that'll be ok, at least compared to what it is now. I also think 3D is mandatory, not that I care about 3D, but not using 3D on a machine that's been targeted especially for this is shameful.


Yeah, it wouldn't be fair if they don't deliver to the n3DS users. A lot of people probably upgraded from the o3DS, so they gave Nintendo money twice.

We expect to get some exclusive stuff, or at least things that make use of the superior hardware.


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## VMM (Mar 15, 2016)

Speaking of SNES games, these are some games I'd like to see on SNES VC:

Battletoads in Battlemaniacs
Megaman X, X2 and X3
Mickey Magiacal Quest 1, 2 and 3
Aladin
Zombies Ate my Neighboors
Goof Troop
Super Mario All-Stars
The Lost Vikings 1 and 2
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turttles
Goemon
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers - The Movie
Earthworm Jim 2(One is already available as a DSiWare title)
Sunset Riders
Top Gear 1, 2 and 3000
Rock n' Roll Racing
Super castlevania IV
Blackthorne
Super Bomberman titles(especially 3 and 5)
Killer Instinct(Though it won't happen because RARE is now owned by M$)
Super Ghouls n' Ghosts
King of Dragons


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## chartube12 (Mar 15, 2016)

I want mario rpg. Idk why, I own it on snes and Wii VC. I just want it!


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