# Zune or iPod?



## Heito (Nov 28, 2006)

I was planning to buy an iPod video 30GB  when I saw this Zune media player which costs the same as the iPod and has the same capacity. To me they both sort of seem the same, except the Zune got a bigger screen.  Does anyone here have a Zune? I'd like to know which has the easiest to use interface and music management (like itunes) software, or if the Zune got any problems with it.


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## CCNaru (Nov 28, 2006)

ipod + http://rockbox.org = winner.

zune is a piece of shit. and invest a bit more money...and get 80gb


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## GameGeezer (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't have a Zune yet but I've been thinking about it as well.  People who are fans of the ipod have complained about it's user interface but others have said it's user interface is as intuitive as any available on the market so I imagine that is pretty good. The screen is bigger but I don't think the resolution is different.

I heard the sound is excellent which is really the point of the whole thing anyway.

My daughter is getting one for christmas.  She'll be a good test as to whether it is a good product or not.  I'd go to a store and mess with one before I made a final decision.  I'd be wary of people on line who are critisizing the Zune at this point.  Most of them probably are ipod fans and wouldn't try a new digital device even if Jessica Alba popped out of it and gave them a massage while they use it.


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## Veho (Nov 28, 2006)

None. Buy an iRiver or an iAudio HDD player. Same build and sound quality, lower prices, no DRM, just drag & drop.


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## Harsky (Nov 28, 2006)

One of my dad's friend (I think he's over 60) claims that iPod are owned by Microsoft and Apple and Microsoft are the same company. Trying to persuade him that it's not true was impossible. Off topic but is a Creative Vision M a good purchase? Need something to listen to ever since I broke my iRiver H10.


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## Veho (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(Harsky @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> Off topic but is a Creative Vision M a good purchase? Need something to listen to ever since I broke my iRiver H10.


Yes. A friend of mine has it, and I drooooool   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Too bad I'm getting a Wii


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## Lily (Nov 28, 2006)

iRiver or Creative over both iPod and Zune. It's all about the *sound quality*, at which the iPod and Zune are both poor at. Yell at me all you want if you're a fan of either device, but iRiver & Creative players have amazing sound quality - and if you don't believe it, you've never listened to them.


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## ConraDargo (Nov 28, 2006)

Gotta pick the Zuuuune, it's crackalacking! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sorry man, I just couldn't resist it


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## adgloride (Nov 28, 2006)

I like my ipod, the only problem is itunes.  Its the worst piece of software I've ever used and they've made it far too complicated.  I use anapod now, its just a simple drag and drop program.


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## shaunj66 (Nov 28, 2006)

I gotta go with the peeps that say Creative are better than the iPod (can't comment on the Zune though).

Creative MP3 players are awesome. My 4GB Muvo2 is still a great little player and is about 5 years old now, it kicked the original iPods ass at the time.


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## yuyuyup (Nov 28, 2006)

get both, and one ham sandwich.

-mayo
-lettuce
-etc


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## trebulator (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't like either one of them, but I will say the Sony NW-HD5 is awesome. Even though it has only 20gb of storage, it does everything a mp3 player needs to do, and it has over 40 hours of battery life, which just smashes the Zune/iPod's 13 hours. The Dell Digital Jukebox (20gb) is also pretty good.

Hah, but I probably only like it because a good battery life is sexay to me XD. Just do more research and don't limit yourself to just two choices. Right now I'm using a Philips GoGear 30gb and I'm pretty happy with it. It has drag and drop for mp3s, line in and FM radio recording, very good sound quality (much better than the iPod and ::very loud:, and it looks so friggin sexy. The bad things are it only has 13 hours of battery life, putting pictures on it just sucks, it lags bad if you're browsing songs while music is playing, and fingerprints show. Also, the headphones that come with it aren't even worth a penny.


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## Hitto (Nov 28, 2006)

One vote for iRiver or anything made by Creative. You pay admittedly less for the brand name, you won't be a beta testing consumer for microsoft's first iPod competitor, and you won't look as stylish as if you owned an iPod - like everyone else...

The Zune doesn't even deserve contempt, and I feel sorry to have wasted one sentence on it.


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## dimsum411 (Nov 28, 2006)

SanDisk Sansa e260
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/01/sandisk...sa-e260-review/


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## Veho (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> You pay admittedly less for the brand name, you won't be a beta testing consumer for microsoft's first iPod competitor



Even Microsoft admits they don't expect this to create profit, it is being released only for marketing purposes, and the _real_ iPod-killer will be one of Zune's _future revisions_





Apparently, the first Zune is only here to attract people's attention   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Why anyone would buy such a product is beyond me. 

That would be like Nintendo releasing a new console, and then releasing a sexy new revision a couple of months later, making the people who bought the original feel very silly indeed. 

Oh, wait....


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## trebulator (Nov 28, 2006)

I hesitated to even mention 20gb mp3 players since Heito wants a 30gb one... I don't think 4gb mp3 players should be mentioned. >_>


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## kernelPANIC (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(Harsky @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> One of my dad's friend (I think he's over 60) claims that iPod are owned by Microsoft and Apple and Microsoft are the same company. Trying to persuade him that it's not true was impossible. Off topic but is a Creative Vision M a good purchase? Need something to listen to ever since I broke my iRiver H10.


Well, your dad's friend is not entirely wrong. Bill Gates owns something like 5 or 10% of Apple's stocks.
Make sure you apologize properly to your dad's friend the next time you see him. Not because you may or may not have been right, but because you are not supposed to argue with old people.


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## kingkong (Nov 28, 2006)

its really crazy how media-controlles you zune- and ipod-kids are. if any multi billion dollar business just creates a new product you fall for their nlp advertisement schemes that talk directly to your psyche and manipulate you.

iaudio x5l is much much better in sound quality as well as in user interface, as well in functions. damn you can even set a bookmark in a track. try that with a fucking mass manipulation ipod/zune.

i bet 95% of you kids would have fallen for hitler too. he was very good at manipulating the masses.


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## trebulator (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(kingkong @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> its really crazy how media-controlles you zune- and ipod-kids are. if any multi billion dollar business just creates a new product you fall for their nlp advertisement schemes that talk directly to your psyche and manipulate you.
> 
> iaudio x5l is much much better in sound quality as well as in user interface, as well in functions. damn you can even set a bookmark in a track. try that with a fucking mass manipulation ipod/zune.
> 
> i bet 95% of you kids would have fallen for hitler too. he was very good at manipulating the masses.


I saw that a while ago... but unfortunately the ebay prices were way too expensive for me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



This thing looks like heaven.


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## Harsky (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(kingkong @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> its really crazy how media-controlles you zune- and ipod-kids are. if any multi billion dollar business just creates a new product you fall for their nlp advertisement schemes that talk directly to your psyche and manipulate you.
> 
> iaudio x5l is much much better in sound quality as well as in user interface, as well in functions. damn you can even set a bookmark in a track. try that with a fucking mass manipulation ipod/zune.
> 
> i bet 95% of you kids would have fallen for hitler too. he was very good at manipulating the masses.


Well.... he did have that Hugo Boss outfit.... can't say nein to a guy in Hugo Boss....


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## Devante (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(kingkong @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> its really crazy how media-controlles you zune- and ipod-kids are. if any multi billion dollar business just creates a new product you fall for their nlp advertisement schemes that talk directly to your psyche and manipulate you.
> 
> 
> 
> i bet 95% of you kids would have fallen for hitler too. he was very good at manipulating the masses.



You have no idea how ironic these two statements are. ;>


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## enarky (Nov 28, 2006)

Here is a review and here's the Slashdot discussion about it.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Yes, Microsoft's new Zune digital music player is just plain dreadful. I've spent a week setting this thing up and using it, and the overall experience is about as pleasant as having an airbag deploy in your face.



Squirt? I don't want to imagine a Zune covered in... nevermind. It's disgusting.


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## Shinji (Nov 28, 2006)

I give my vote for the Independent party in this one and say Creative.

If you're looking for a widescreen, go for the Zen Vision W.  Go check out the epizenter and tell ssjmichael whats up (he's a frequent poster on slickdeals and he can tell you anything and everything about your choices)


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## Heito (Nov 28, 2006)

Actually I was just looking at creative stuff now, since many people here were suggesting that.  How durable is the Zen Vision W? It looks like one big screen that could break easy. (I'm pretty careful, but i do tend to drop some things)


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## Bowser128 (Nov 28, 2006)

I've got no experience of the Zune, so I can't say anything about it either way, but I have had experience of the iPod in its many revisions. My advice is no matter what you buy, *do not buy an iPod*, it looks nice enough but honestly, if you want any sort of sound quality, durability, battery life or want your purchase to be 'top of the range' for more than a couple of months, look elsewhere.


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## trebulator (Nov 28, 2006)

kingkong FTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




iAudio X5L is the shizzle


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## Harsky (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(Heito @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> Actually I was just looking at creative stuff now, since many people here were suggesting that.Â How durable is the Zen Vision W? It looks like one big screen that could break easy. (I'm pretty careful, but i do tend to drop some things)


Damn, I decided to look up the Vision W..... and I want it.....


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## choupette (Nov 28, 2006)

I think it's microsoft's strategy, launch a product, lose a lot of money, adapt it better to the market a few months after and launche a new one.

it worked with the xbox360.


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## wohoo (Nov 28, 2006)

oh my **** god, DON'T get an ipod! i hate em, many of my friends have one or two. i can't understand huw people can call itunes GOOD?! with my mp3 player i just put the file with songs on it - like if it was an harddrive. and then i play them just by browsing the map (i got and archos gemini xs 202, but whatever). basically, the computer treats the mp3 player as an hdd, and i just do what i want instead of be fighting with itunes to get all the songs on the same place. 

i don't know about zune, but i think (or at least hope) it has a smarter system for everything. like an ipod, you have to start over with all the songs you have put on it when you're about to use it with your friends computer, or any other computer. i shuld definitetly go with a zune! just because i hate the ipod and everything it does - except for playing music when you have it all done, after all those hours of fixing

edit: i just had to add the last sentence


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## Shinji (Nov 28, 2006)

Harsky, I did the same thing...and I got to check one out hands on, and I want it even more now :'(

Why is X-mas right around the corner.... :'(


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## Moneo (Nov 28, 2006)

I generally don't like everything Apple, however I like unsubstantiated claims on audio quality even less 8)

Here's a 5th gen ipod benchmarked with RMAA: http://hifiipod.co.uk/?page_id=65

The results are very good.

Here's a similar benchmark of a Creative Zen Touch (in russian, hehehe)

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/ze...uch/touch.shtml

Looking at the numbers, I would say that there is an apparently noticeable difference between the two. As for the listening tests, it is wise to only trust those that are double-blind and properly conducted.

Overall, current-generation iPods are very impressive portable players. And nothing else on the market does gapless playback with official firmware


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## mthrnite (Nov 28, 2006)

In defense of the iPod, I have four, a 1st Gen, a 2nd Gen, a new Nano and a 1st gen Shuffle. They all still work, and have decent battery life.

The 1st Gen iPod had a firewire issue that required me re-soldering a joint, but worked fine after that. They're not crap, and if you have a Mac they're a good choice because of iTunes and the Music Store. If you don't have a Mac, it probably wouldn't be my first choice since the software is a bit lacking unless you go 3rd party.

Cnet gave the Zune an 8 out of 10, and said for a new player it was looking good. I don't have any experience with Creative, but I have a little iRiver that I love to pieces (iFP 190.)

I guess what I'm saying is if anyone gives you "they're the shznit!" or "they're crap!", filter that out and realize they've all got good and bad points.

Boy, that didn't help much did it?


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## Bowser128 (Nov 28, 2006)

QUOTE(Moneo @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> I generally don't like everything Apple, however I like unsubstantiated claims on audio quality even less 8)
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated
> ...



If I did have a Mac I'd probably stick with iPods for ease, but my 2nd and 4th gen iPods broke within months :'(  Also, most of my mates who have had Minis, Nanos and Videos are also wishing they had stayed away (broken click wheels, battery leaks or just plain not turning on any more).


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## Yerknutz (Nov 28, 2006)

iPods are ok, I am not a fan of the Zune or any Creative products. I think for my christmas present to myself I am going to get an Archos 604 WiFi.

http://www.archos.com/products/video/archo...=global&lang=en


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## teH XeRO (Nov 28, 2006)

ive read the zune marketplace software at least right now is a load of buggy garbage..i personally think the zune is aesthetically ugly (with the exception of the black one) and for a piece of hardware with a soldered battery, its a little bit on the fat side.  sound and video quality is supposed to match that of the ipod..so if u want the zune id hope for some nice stable software updates.


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## aligborat69 (Nov 28, 2006)

I use this: 

http://www.miniplayer.info/

Because it plays xvids, mp3's and photos and more and has FM radio and its 4gb, but i dont need to carry my lifes music collection wherever i go! And its so tiny and looong battery! :-)


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## dEC0DED (Nov 28, 2006)

i own a 30gb ipod video black.

i love it.

barely watch shit on it. i more got it for the music and the interface. 

have no issues with it. and i go nowhere without it.

holds my calender and reminders.. better than my razr cellphone POS! :@

someone buy me a new sidekick and customize it kthnx.


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## Hanafuda (Nov 28, 2006)

like aligborat69 above me, I don't really understand the need to carry around so much music at once, and also the portable video thing is something I really had to think hard about "would I use this?" I don't like watching reruns of anything, and if I'm watching a good movie or show for the first time I don't want it to be on a tiny handheld. After thoughtful analysis, I realized that the only use I would really have for a handheld video player would be to have porn I could watch in the toilet stalls at work. Since I am not gonna be _that _ guy, it turns out I don't need a portable video player. I guess if I were a commuter on public transportation I could force myself to watch a program or movie during the ride, but I'd rather be playing a game on DS or GBA. (and incidentally, my DS w/ SCLite will do a pretty decent job of playing video anyway - batchdpg rocks)


Careful and deliberate thought about what I need, and not what the industry's fad machine is telling me I need, has convinced me that if I buy a portable media player, it will be for music only. The new ipod Nano's look pretty nice. 4GB or 8GB is more than enough music to have on me at once, and I prefer the concept of a solidstate flash player over a handheld device with a tiny hdd inside. Much better battery life too.

Of course, my DS w/ SClite will do a pretty decent job of playing MP3's too.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  An ipod or zune might do it better, but  I'm not sure they do it $250 better.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





If you are that guy who watches porn in the bathroom stalls, get something that runs divx/xvid straight-up so you don't have to do all that converting. wanker.


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## Mehdi (Nov 28, 2006)

best sound quality I heared was from Sony NW-E 002 F/B






Its small can support soo many songs and has quality sound.


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## Harsky (Nov 28, 2006)

The temptation to go and get the Vision W is hampered by 2 things.

1. The price
2. A bit too big to fit in my pocket

Then again, watching videos on the go without needing to convert it to MP4 like I do for the PSP is tempting....


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## Shinji (Nov 28, 2006)

the zen vision W is not meant to be a pocket media player, its just meant to be an OTG media player, the zen vision M is the one on the level with ipoo video and zune.  as far as the price, standard retail is about 50 USD more for the W over the M, but I found a few sites that have the M below retail and possibly ship internationally


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## trebulator (Nov 29, 2006)

Um, wait... so did you guys forget about the Cowon iAudio X5L? This thing is definitely the best mp3 player I've seen (and hopefully I'll own it soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

It doesn't mention this in the hardware specs on the official site, but it supports drag and drop through windows explorer for music and photos, which is very awesome.

SPECS:
MP3, OGG, WMA, ASF, FLAC, WAV, Moving Picture Playback, FM Radio Receiver and Recording,
Voice Recording, Line-In Recording
TXT (Text), JPEG (Image) File Viewer (Image Enlargement, Background Screen Designation)
Built-In HDD (20GB/30GB/60GB), USB Host, File Copy/Delete
USB 2.0 Interface
260,000 Colors TFT-LCD, Resolution 160x128
Long Playback Time : Up to 14 hours playback (*35 hours for iAUDIO X5L*)
(Based on company's self-test, The playing time may be shortened according to settings.)
Multi language support
Enhanced Integrated Navigator
Play/Pause, Recording/Pause While Recording
Next Song/Previous Song, Fast Forward/Rewind, Section Repeat
Resume, Fade-In, AutoPlay Features
Search Speed, Skip Speed Setup
Volume (Digital 40 Levels)
Various EQ and Sound Field Effects
-User-Adjustable 5-Band EQ
-Normal, Rock, Pop, Jazz, Classic, Vocal, User
-Supports BBE, Mach3Bass, MP Enhance, and 3D Surround.
Clock, Alarm, Timer Recording, Sleep Function, Power Saving Shut down.
Power, LCD On/Off, Hold Combined Switch
LCD Auto Off Time Adjustment, Brightness, and Contrast Adjustments
Easy Firmware Upgrade
Supports ID3V2, ID3V1, FileName
Device Information Verification
(Firmware version, HDD capacity, HDD volume, total folder number, total file number)
Supports MAC OS (Data transfer only)
Supports Linux v 2.2 or higher (Data transfer only)
Software
-JetShell (File transfer, MP3/WMA/WAV/AUDIO CD PLAY, MP3 ENCODING)
-JetAudio (Integrated multimedia player software, music/video conversion feature)

http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/x5/

http://reviews.cnet.com/Cowon_iAudio_X5L_3...7-31383685.html


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## Shinji (Nov 29, 2006)

Actually, we DID forget about it XD

I recall that player brought up in a previous discussion about PMP's


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## Hitto (Nov 29, 2006)

QUOTE(wohoo @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> oh my **** god, DON'T get an ipod! i hate em, many of my friends have one or two. i can't understand huw people can call itunes GOOD?! with my mp3 player i just put the file with songs on it - like if it was an harddrive. and then i play them just by browsing the map (i got and archos gemini xs 202, but whatever). basically, the computer treats the mp3 player as an hdd, and i just do what i want instead of be fighting with itunes to get all the songs on the same place.
> 
> i don't know about zune, but i think (or at least hope) it has a smarter system for everything. like an ipod, you have to start over with all the songs you have put on it when you're about to use it with your friends computer, or any other computer. i shuld definitetly go with a zune! just because i hate the ipod and everything it does - except for playing music when you have it all done, after all those hours of fixing
> 
> edit: i just had to add the last sentence



To "fix" an iPod, you can use rockbox on it.
I personally still use a GBA SP with play-yan, or DSlite with DSO's mp3 playback, by the way.

It's also cheaper to just buy a portable HDD or HDD USB case, and more than 300GB storage.


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## Moneo (Nov 29, 2006)

QUOTE(Bowser128 @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> I have issues trusting the iPod test site because it asks you to buy iPods through their site so they get money via referrals


*shrugs*

You can compare iPod nano benchmarks done by that site and ixbt.com. 

http://hifiipod.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2...2/iPod_Nano.htm

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/apple/ipod-nano/pcm.shtml

hifiipod measured a lower noise floor, but higher distortion levels, which is probably due to a different soundcard being used for input.

In the days of old, iPods did have some problems with the output quality and mp3 decoding quality. Unsurprisingly, in the current (5th) generation of the hardware these have been resolved.


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## dbrood (Nov 29, 2006)

i use my sony erricson w950i (4gb of solid state memory), 4 gb is plenty enough for me, and the supplied headhones are great!!

My opinion is id stay away from the zune (not a big fan of crippled drm being forced onto it, typical m$ really) the w950i has played everything that ive thrown at it so far, plus the big screen is great for video playback, battery life is good plus it doubles up as a smartphone!


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## aletorchic (Nov 29, 2006)

anything (iRiver, Creative....) *BUT* both Zune and iPod

I' ve seen some Samsung stuff supporting oggs


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## Psyfira (Nov 29, 2006)

To give a more productive answer than the brand-bashing: check out each company's customer support forum to get an idea of the typical faults with each player. You have to bear in mind that being a support forum it'll be full of people discussing the player's bad points rather than the good but it's a useful way of finding out what problems you might encounter in the future, or if there are any common issues with a particular model. 

With a new product like the Zune it's probably too early for some technical flauts to have surfaced, so this's probably the easiest way to find out if people have any difficulties with the software and getting the players running.


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## Blebleman (Nov 29, 2006)

QUOTE(dimsum411 @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> SanDisk Sansa e260
> http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/01/sandisk...sa-e260-review/



*Yes.*

I work as a Portable Audio salesman, and as such, I sell MP3 players.

We don't have access to the Zune up here in Canada yet, and I believe it is better like that. Horrible reviews and crippled features make me wonder how long Microsoft's baby will live.

Let me just ramble on some of the Sansa e200 serie's features. I sell MP3 players, and I chose this one out of all the others. Very satisfied.

Flash-based memory (no busted hard disks, no loading-lag)
FM Radio (iPod doesn't have that)
Voice Recording that is actually GOOD (iPod doesn't have that)
Video Playing (iPod Nano equivalent doesn't have that)
Custom EQ (yes, you can play with the individual frequencies)
Playlists (of course)
Easily replacable Lithium-Ion battery
MicroSD slot for more storage
Two USB modes : MSC (for portable-hard-disk-like behavior) and MTP (for use in media management programs like Windows Media Player)
Support for Asian Characters (matters for _some_ people!)
Regular firmware upgrades that really DO stuff, not just bug-fixing. They add features.
And right now, Rockbox is on it's way for the E200-series.

I hope that was somewhat informative. Any questions? Ask away, I sell this stuff.


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## furyoo (Nov 29, 2006)

QUOTE(Moneo @ Nov 29 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Bowser128 @ Nov 28 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > I have issues trusting the iPod test site because it asks you to buy iPods through their site so they get money via referrals
> ...


The one thing bad about iPods, even the new generations, is that they come with really bad stock earphones. Ditch them as soon as you get them. I use my Video 30 gb with Creative's EP630 canal earphones, and the sound is great.

I had a Creative before, I also had a Samsung, somehow I prefer the iPod interface. Nothing is more intuitive than scrolling.


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## TmP_stryk (Nov 29, 2006)

I have a creative zen vision m and i think its fantastic! Ipod is over rated and is a pos. Ive seen the zune and it looks like a great product. Zune is deffintly a wise choice for  your mp3 player needs. Stay away from anything ipod.


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## Heito (Nov 29, 2006)

I went with the creative vision M, and I love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for the info on the other brands everyone


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## Phrostay (Dec 10, 2006)

Hehe I think its a bit obvious that iTunes is going to suck on Windows, iTunes 7 runs pretty damn well once you have it running under OS X that is ;P and I don't find iTunes too complex at all. iTunes centralizes all of my music into one app that organizes it pretty damn effectively with smart playlists etc., fetches my album artwork, tags my audio files, names my audio files automatically and cooks my breakfast!!! well almost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the iTunes store isn't that bad because I get a lot of iTunes gift cards or unspent ones where I just enter the code download and play! I also have the option of allowing 5 other devices to use the whole album I downloaded. iPod isn't too bad either as it can play games, music, videos, view pictures and has a limited PDA like function. So thats my nice biased opinion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I really don't care that much because I get enough crap from Windows users about how shit they think Macs are so I'm just gonna shit them back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I enjoy my ignorance as much as you do.


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## Veho (Dec 10, 2006)

If you don't need a lot of space, iRiver Clix. 4GB flash memory, long battery life, great sound quality. If you don't have to have your entire music collection with you at all times, it's perfect. 

On a side note, I just bought an iRiver T10, and I'm happy


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## [M]artin (Dec 10, 2006)

How are the newer gen iPods as far as quality goes? I know about two friends who had an iPod fark up on them due to a few clumsy drops on the floor.


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## notchristopher (Dec 10, 2006)

QUOTE(Yerknutz @ Nov 28 2006 said:


> iPods are ok, I am not a fan of the Zune or any Creative products. I think for my christmas present to myself I am going to get an Archos 604 WiFi.
> 
> http://www.archos.com/products/video/archo...=global&lang=en



If you need the wifi go ahead but I would really recommend the Cowon A2 as  your PMP.  I have it and I love it.  10 hours battery life. Amazing sound (don't need to you headphones on a plane unless you mind annoying your neighbor).  And its sturdy.  I've dropped it on the screen a few times and it is still in like-new condition.  Do the research first and you will find the differences interesting.  I know I did.


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