# Team Ninja's Representation of Women Not Changing Anytime Soon



## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

No developer is more closely associated to the term "breast physics" than Team Ninja. The team behind Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive, and Metroid: Other M, is somewhat infamous for their portrayal of women. Some say it's just fanservice, others argue it's blatant objectification, but either way, both sides can agree that it's not very realistic. 

Well, according to Yosuke Hayashi, they have no intention of changing this anytime soon. What's more, he argues that this sort of representation is "common sense", with a basis in Japanese culture. Um...



> "With the representation of female characters in the Dead or Alive franchise, we've always wanted to make the girls look as attractive as possible, and that's something that's not going to change for us at all," Hayashi says. "We are a Japanese developer, and we're making the female characters with our common sense and our creative sense. When you take that to countries outside of Japan, it tends to be very misinterpreted in some cases, people considering it sexist or derogatory, etc."
> 
> ..."For us, within our culture, we're showing women like that, and we're trying to make them look attractive," he says. "We can't help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it's a bad representation. Within our nationality and within our national borders, we obviously have morals that we create our female characters from, but within our Japanese sensibilities, we've made those characters the way they are and we're not going to stop doing that."







Joystiq

So, kids, remember...


Spoiler











In the words of Dr. Evil, "_Riiiiiight_."


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Dude I just posted this on Skype.

Also people, next time you want to mark me as "xenophobic" you can go read this article again.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't see why every single developer has to agree to follow a certain guideline on how to portray male or female characters. You could just as well argue that games like Gears of War portray men as brainless lumps of muscle or that Mass Effect portrays the human race as a race of beings that will bed anything that has orifices or protruding limbs. We have to remember that games, just as much as movies and books, are works of fiction and it's up to the author to portray the characters. If Team Ninja feels like portraying females in an over-sexualized way, they're entitled to do so and if given gamers don't like this way of portraying characters then they're free not to buy said games.

There's a market for big-breasted damsels and Team Ninja uses that to their advantage, can't say I see anything wrong with it.


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## emigre (Aug 23, 2012)

And may I be the first to say, thanks fucking god for that.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see why every single developer has to agree to follow a certain guideline on how to portray male or female characters. You could just as well argue that games like Gears of War portray men as brainless lumps of muscle or that Mass Effect portrays the human race as a race of beings that will bed anything that has orifices for protruding limbs. We have to remember that games, just as much as movies and books, are works of fiction and it's up to the author to portray the characters. If Team Ninja feels like portraying females in an over-sexualized way, they're entitled to do so and if given gamers don't like this way of portraying characters then they're free not to buy said games.
> 
> There's a market for big-breasted damsels and Team Ninja uses that to their advantage, can't say I see anything wrong with it.



For Mass Effect at least the romance wasn't that humans enjoying sticking their penis into anything or enjoying getting anything stuck into them but that love has no bounds regardless of race. You don't just say "SUP LIARA/GARRUS/TALI LET'S FUCK", it's developed over time. You develop the same relationship with an alien race as you do with a human race.

I think the issue here is that it's not just them saying they enjoy portraying women as sexual objects, it's them saying it's a part of Japanese culture. I don't exactly care if a single developer wants to portray women as boobs and vaginas or men as dicks and muscles but to say that its a cultural thing is just wrong.


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see why every single developer has to agree to follow a certain guideline on how to portray male or female characters. You could just as well argue that games like Gears of War portray men as brainless lumps of muscle or that Mass Effect portrays the human race as a race of beings that will bed anything that has orifices for protruding limbs. We have to remember that games, just as much as movies and books, are works of fiction and it's up to the author to portray the characters. If Team Ninja feels like portraying females in an over-sexualized way, they're entitled to do so and if given gamers don't like this way of portraying characters then they're free not to buy said games.
> 
> There's a market for big-breasted damsels and Team Ninja uses that to their advantage, can't say I see anything wrong with it.



It's up to the creator to decide how to portray their characters... but that doesn't make their portrayal free from criticism. Neither does success in the market.

Plus, this whole thing reeks of, "Our characters aren't blatantly sexualized to an unrealistic and unhealthy extent, _you're_ just culturally ignorant!"


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## Hielkenator (Aug 23, 2012)

I'll never buy a Team Ninja game again, after all they RUINED Samus.
IMHO, they really inteded to SCREW that franchise, at least that's some thing they are good at.
THEY ARE NOT GOOD AT DEEP GAMES. Horrible piece of work, part from the cgi.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Hielkenator said:


> I'll never buy a Team Ninja game again, after all they RUINED Samus.
> IMHO, they really inteded to SCREW that franchise, at least that's some thing they are good at.
> THEY ARE NOT GOOD AT DEEP GAMES. Horrible piece of work, part from the cgi.



I mean the studio hasn't exactly been doing well recently anyway. Other M was pretty bad and Ninja Gaiden 3 seems to be a major flop.


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## Rasas (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I mean the studio hasn't exactly been doing well recently anyway. Other M was pretty bad and Ninja Gaiden 3 seems to be a major flop.


Dead or Alive 5 might have great sales. The problem with Ninja Gaiden 3 was all the things it removed and made worse. Also lets be honest it pretty much only does DOA and NG besides Metroid which wasn't to good.

Plus with Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball selling better then DOA4 it shows their stance is quite possibly the only thing keeping the studio afloat but then again DOA 3 did sell very well. I don't think DOA5 will do any better since the amount of fighters released this and last year.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I think the issue here is that it's not just them saying they enjoy portraying women as sexual objects, it's them saying it's a part of Japanese culture. I don't exactly care if a single developer wants to portray women as boobs and vaginas or men as dicks and muscles but to say that its a cultural thing is just wrong.





Gahars said:


> Plus, this whole thing reeks of, "Our characters aren't blatantly sexualized to an unrealistic and unhealthy extent, _you're_ just culturally ignorant!"


You may be right, and for some people this may be the deal breaker as far as their games are concerned, but remember that we're talking about the Hentai Central here - Japanese male audiences *do* enjoy portraying females that way, and they're the audience these games are tailored for. I wouldn't go as far as to call it an element of their culture, but the image of a big-breasted, skimply clad female is cultivated there, both in video games and outside of them.

This is simply Team Ninja's style and I don't think anyone should ostracize the studio for it. Critique is fine and dandy and I do agree that their portray of women is over-sexualized and objectifying, but they're not the only ones doing it and it's an integral part of their style of making games. The only real answer to this is not buying their games if you don't like them.

Everybody's tossing around Other M as an example and to be perfectly honest, for a Team Ninja game, Other M was incredibly mild. Moreover, it's not as bad of a game as people tend to say - in fact, I thoroughly enjoyed their take on the franchise. Perhaps Samus was overly-dependant on Adam in the game, but at least she had human features, which is not something I can easily say about many other Metroid games. They attempted to show her as a person rather than as an extension of her shoulder cannon and it was pretty cool to see her from that perspective.


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 23, 2012)

What bullshit.

Many various forms of entertainment in Japan do not degrade women or use sex as a selling point. This guy just watches too much anime/porn.


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## MelodieOctavia (Aug 23, 2012)

I agree that they can model their characters in whatever way they please, but I don't buy the whole "We're Japanese, and that's how we roll" thing.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I think the issue here is that it's not just them saying they enjoy portraying women as sexual objects, it's them saying it's a part of Japanese culture. I don't exactly care if a single developer wants to portray women as boobs and vaginas or men as dicks and muscles but to say that its a cultural thing is just wrong.
> ...



Well first off its things like this that make me not revere Japanese culture like everyone else. It's just terribly sad that games like this sell on their disgusting sex appeal. I'm not saying all Japanese culture is like that but the fact that this persists is just sickening.

I mean I'm criticizing it because it does feel like it goes past the culture barrier in terms of being offensive. Some things can be passed off as "culture bias" and some things cannot. Objectification of women in this manner does feel like it goes past culture bias.

As for Other M, it was sexist in its own way. Not because it objectified Samus as some large breasted sexual object, but it was the way she was portrayed. Admittedly though this isn't Team Ninja's fault as the story was written on Nintendo's side though. But it made her fall into a lot of negative stereotypes on women. That she's fragile, codependent, and submissive to male authority. I mean she doesn't have to be an ice queen like the other Metroid games and maybe showing some submission to Adam as her former commanding officer would be fine but it goes too far. There's scenes such as her confrontation with Ridley in which she breaks down and is just a "weak little girl" and needs a stronger male character to defend her. Or that she's willing to literally run through fire for Adam and actively take damage because he didn't authorize the use of something as basic and harmless as an envirosuit. Like respecting her commander's decision to deactive her more devastating weapons (such as the super bomb or whatever she uses at the end of the game) is fine but shutting down even basic parts simply to submit to the will of Adam isn't just respect, it's submission.


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't see a problem with Team Ninja's attitude at all and is it just me or are we forgetting that this is in a game and is fiction so why are we suddenly expecting fiction/fantasy etc = real life when its made to not be real in the first place.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I don't see a problem with Team Ninja's attitude at all and is it just me or are we forgetting that this is in a game and is fiction so why are we suddenly expecting fiction/fantasy etc = real life when its made to not be real in the first place.



Fiction doesn't make things unoffensive. Just because it isn't real doesn't mean it gets a pass. If there was a work of fiction that glorified rape, pedophilia, or genocide (for a few examples) as the best thing since sliced bread I don't think people would say "Oh it's just fiction so it doesn't matter". Fiction or not, it endorses a negative image of women.

EDIT: In all honesty I see a lot of arguments on the banning of certain explicit manga and such that portrays children in sexual situations as "it's just fiction" but it still doesn't stop it from endorsing pedophilia. It's like saying that Birth of a Nation isn't offensive because it's still a work of fiction.

EDIT 2: And yes Birth of a Nation is technically "historical fiction" so it does make it a bit more "real" but fiction is fiction.


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I don't see a problem with Team Ninja's attitude at all and is it just me or are we forgetting that this is in a game and is fiction so why are we suddenly expecting fiction/fantasy etc = real life when its made to not be real in the first place.



When that fiction is demeaning or objectifying, then yeah, that warrants criticism and discussion.


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see a problem with Team Ninja's attitude at all and is it just me or are we forgetting that this is in a game and is fiction so why are we suddenly expecting fiction/fantasy etc = real life when its made to not be real in the first place.
> ...


But that logic is faulty because the same argument can be applied to everything but that point aside you have western games portray males as nothing more then steroid infused idoits that like to smash and bash things and do you see guys screaming "thats endorsing a negative image of men" no they really couldn't give a shit but also the difference between the examples you have are those are against the law while showing women with big boobs isn't.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> But that logic is faulty because the same argument can be applied to everything but that point aside you have western games portray males as nothing more then steroid infused idoits that like to smash and bash things and do you see guys screaming "thats endorsing a negative image of men" no they really couldn't give a shit but also the difference between the examples you have are those are against the law while showing women with big boobs isn't.



But that isn't exactly it. It may show some men as gruff and built but that's not nearly as offensive as portraying women as ditzy, helpless, slutty, submissive, or as sexual objects. Like when you play Gears of War, the size of the men or how they act is hardly a focus. If they wanted to be offensive towards men, they'd make them stupid, braindead, brutish, or savage. And not savage like "They shoot people" savage, I'm talking like cavemen. A game like Dead or Alive (especially beach volleyball and such) is completely focused around the women being sexual objects.

EDIT: As a man I can say that these "Gears of War" images of men don't offend me. Don't get me wrong, I'll get offended from a gender standpoint if someone says that "All men are pigs" or "all men do is think with their dicks" since those are both misconceptions about my gender. Having some men being muscular and in combat situations is hardly offensive. If they made all the men do nothing but talk about how much they fuck babes and have them act like braindead assholes then yeah, I'd be offended. But I can't think of a game that does that.

I'm not saying western culture isn't guilty of portraying gender roles in the wrong light but it's just highlighted for Japanese culture in cases like this.


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## RupeeClock (Aug 23, 2012)

It's not the breast physics or anything that offend me, it's the way that Samus' character was butchered in Other M.
And that probably had nothing to do with Team Ninja.

I suppose it's Japan being Japan, do the Japanese women object to this representation?


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Just Another Gamer said:
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Of course it can!



> but that point aside you have western games portray males as nothing more then steroid infused idoits that like to smash and bash things and do you see guys screaming "thats endorsing a negative image of men" no they really couldn't give a shit but also the difference between the examples you have are those are against the law while showing women with big boobs isn't.



Those depictions aren't that much better, but there's also a crucial difference. Those hulking stereotypes are made _for_ males (escapist characters full of machismo and strength). These scantily clad, unrealistically proportioned women aren't made for females; they're also designed around appealing to a male audience.


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > But that logic is faulty because the same argument can be applied to everything but that point aside you have western games portray males as nothing more then steroid infused idoits that like to smash and bash things and do you see guys screaming "thats endorsing a negative image of men" no they really couldn't give a shit but also the difference between the examples you have are those are against the law while showing women with big boobs isn't.
> ...


Ummm....I haven't seen any of the female DoA characters to be helpless, ditzy and submissive, usually in games they aren't portrayed like that anyway so I don't get why that is brought up. I rather find thats up to preference because I really don't mind playing as any female character even those that are portrayed as sex objects and I hardly see it as a problem or in a way I can't since guys get portrayed like that as well and it seems no one gives a shit which baffles me and I find it a double standard so I do overlook it.




Gahars said:


> > but that point aside you have western games portray males as nothing more then steroid infused idoits that like to smash and bash things and do you see guys screaming "thats endorsing a negative image of men" no they really couldn't give a shit but also the difference between the examples you have are those are against the law while showing women with big boobs isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Those depictions aren't that much better, but there's also a crucial difference. Those hulking stereotypes are made _for_ males (escapist characters full of machismo and strength). These scantily clad, unrealistically proportioned women aren't made for females; they're also designed around appealing to a male audience.


Really? Because I'm a guy and when i'm faced with a decision to either play as a chick or as a steroid infused guy I rather play as the chick mainly because I find that atleast more for a lack of a better work normal than playing a a guy that looks like he is about to hulk out any minute.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Ummm....I haven't seen any of the female DoA characters to be helpless, ditzy and submissive, usually in games they aren't portrayed like that anyway so I don't get why that is brought up. I rather find thats up to preference because I really don't mind playing as any female character even those that are portrayed as sex objects and I hardly see it as a problem or in a way I can't since guys get portrayed like that as well and it seems no one gives a shit which baffles me and I find it a double standard so I do overlook it.



I was talking about offensive images of women in general. But it's not like they're Ph. D's in these games, I'm sure they make plenty of opportunity to make them sound silly and bend over a bit.

Are you female? Well your next statement doesn't say you are so I'll assume that you're not. Of course some guys want the sex their attracted to to be portrayed as sexual. But it's not morally right all the time.

And as I said, men aren't portrayed like this or in an offensive way all the time. Those Lifetime original movies will often offend me because it portrays men as pig, sex-crazed, abusive, a lot of bad stereotypes. But men generally aren't portrayed that way. Sadly it's just a double standard but two wrongs don't make a right.

Also I'm gonna keep "I really don't mind playing as any female character even those that are portrayed as sex objects" as a candidate for dumbest quote on GBAtemp.




> Really? Because I'm a guy and when i'm faced with a decision to either play as a chick or as a steroid infused guy I rather play as the chick mainly because I find that atleast more for a lack of a better work normal than playing a a guy that looks like he is about to hulk out any minute.



But the fact that you would prefer to play as a "woman portrayed in a sexual manner" can easily make you classified as sexist.


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Really? Because I'm a guy and when i'm faced with a decision to either play as a chick or as a steroid infused guy I rather play as the chick mainly because I find that atleast more for a lack of a better work normal than playing a a guy that looks like he is about to hulk out any minute.



Yes, really. Crazy stuff, right?

...And good for you? You do realize that you don't represent every male that developers, artists, etc. pander to, right?


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> > Really? Because I'm a guy and when i'm faced with a decision to either play as a chick or as a steroid infused guy I rather play as the chick mainly because I find that atleast more for a lack of a better work normal than playing a a guy that looks like he is about to hulk out any minute.
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that you would prefer to play as a "woman portrayed in a sexual manner" can easily make you classified as sexist.


I never said prefer I said I rather play as women portrayed in a sexual manner than a buffed up guy who looks like he has been taking steroids his whole life.




Guild McCommunist said:


> I was talking about offensive images of women in general. But it's not like they're Ph. D's in these games, I'm sure they make plenty of opportunity to make them sound silly and bend over a bit.
> 
> Are you female? Well your next statement doesn't say you are so I'll assume that you're not. Of course some guys want the sex their attracted to to be portrayed as sexual. But it's not morally right all the time.
> 
> ...


I never said two wrongs make a right but I do find it really stupid that women can say X is portraying females in X manner and needs to stop but when guys say it people usually just go who gives a shit.

So would you rather I say "I love playing as the drugged up buff guy who likes to run around smashing and killing whatever I can instead of the slutty female character that actually seems like they have more than a peanut for a brain"




Gahars said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Because I'm a guy and when i'm faced with a decision to either play as a chick or as a steroid infused guy I rather play as the chick mainly because I find that atleast more for a lack of a better work normal than playing a a guy that looks like he is about to hulk out any minute.
> ...


I do realize that so thank you for pointing out the obvious.


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I do realize that so thank you for pointing out the obvious.



If it's so obvious, then why try to make that point to begin with?


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > I do realize that so thank you for pointing out the obvious.
> ...


Well you did say those male characters were made for guys to play and I just wanted to point out that not all guys are even like that and there are those that exist like me who hate those designs, I never said designers and devs need to cater to me.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I never said two wrongs make a right but I do find it really stupid that women can say X is portraying females in X manner and needs to stop but when guys say it people usually just go who gives a shit.
> 
> So would you rather I say "I love playing as the drugged up buff guy who likes to run around smashing and killing whatever I can instead of the slutty female character that actually seems like they have more than a peanut for a brain"



Because the "Gears of War" portrayal of men isn't offensive. They're not sexual objects, they're not brutish or pigs. They're not drugged up, they don't like smashing and killing. They're soldiers. They kill things, yes, but that's their job. They're not like having blood orgies and they don't love running into the trenches and killing aliens. Maybe they get some sick satisfaction as a sense of vengeance for their atrocities but that's just war. People have at times loved killing their enemies because they've done a wrong to them. The image of men in Gears of War isn't sexist. If you want a sexist image of men, I'd suggest those Lifetime original movies. They can often portray men as pigs, sex-crazed, abusive, brutish, and other offensive things associated with men.

Also, how do you explain this?








Is that sexist?


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > I never said two wrongs make a right but I do find it really stupid that women can say X is portraying females in X manner and needs to stop but when guys say it people usually just go who gives a shit.
> ...


I never specified gears of war when I wrote this so why are you bringing that up?

I said game as in general never saying any specific game at all.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I never specified gears of war when I wrote this so why are you bringing that up?
> 
> I said game as in general never saying any specific game at all.



But you clearly were talking about Gears of War and I was using it as an example to "buff drugged up men who love killing".

I'd like you to name a game then where the men are portrayed in a sexist manner.


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Gahars said:
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Saying something is tailored towards a certain demographic is very, very different from saying that every single member of that demographic has the exact same interests/tastes/what have you.



> I never said designers and devs need to cater to me.



And I never said you asked, so...


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > I never specified gears of war when I wrote this so why are you bringing that up?
> ...


I was gonna say Duke Nukem and Street Fighter but I guess you'll find a way to say i'm wrong so whatever.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I was gonna say Duke Nukem and Street Fighter but I guess you'll find a way to say i'm wrong so whatever.



Duke Nukem is a parody. He's supposed to be machismo and brash. His whole point is to be over-the-top "manly man".

I don't exactly see how Street Fighter is at all sexist towards men. They're fighters with incredible skill and power, there's a reason they're buff and toned. Even then they're never fighting the stereotypes of being brutish or sex-crazed.


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > I was gonna say Duke Nukem and Street Fighter but I guess you'll find a way to say i'm wrong so whatever.
> ...


Okay what about Leisure suit Larry.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Okay what about Leisure suit Larry.



I'm not too familiar with Leisure Suit Larry but from what I know he seems to also be a comical parody character.


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
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> 
> > Okay what about Leisure suit Larry.
> ...


I was planning on mentioning NieR because they had to change the main character from a white hair pretty boy teen in the original to a buffed up 40 year old for the western release and I guess Raiden from MGS probably counts.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 23, 2012)

in other words they care more about bouncing tits than actually making good games



> with a basis in Japanese culture



sums it up right THERE


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## emigre (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
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And we all did a 'thank fuck for that.'


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

emigre said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
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> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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I'm guessing you like looking at buffed up men instead of women.


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## jalaneme (Aug 23, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Well, according to Yosuke Hayashi, they have no intention of changing this anytime soon. What's more, he argues that this sort of representation is "common sense", with a basis in Japanese culture. Um...



typical sick japanese, i'm not surprised as the whole game industry is male dominated anyway, i may be in the minority but i have to look at stuff like this and it puts me off playing some games, team ninjas included.


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## Zerousen (Aug 23, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Well, according to Yosuke Hayashi, they have no intention of changing this anytime soon. What's more, he argues that this sort of representation is "common sense", with a basis in Japanese culture. Um...
> ...



I don't think it matters though if the game itself is good. The game industry may be male dominated, but I dont see any of my female friends complain about anything in the games that they play. One even stated that DOA was their favorite game on the 3DS, they're opinion, I guess.


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## Gundam Eclipse (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> emigre said:
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Offtopic:Am I reading this wrong or are you implying that the original MC for Nier was a woman.
I clearly need more sleep, been awake for too long/end


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## MushGuy (Aug 23, 2012)

Hielkenator said:


> I'll never buy a Team Ninja game again, after all they RUINED Samus.
> IMHO, they really inteded to SCREW that franchise, at least that's some thing they are good at.
> THEY ARE NOT GOOD AT DEEP GAMES. Horrible piece of work, part from the cgi.


If there's someone to blame for Other M, that is Yoshio Sakamoto. After all, it's HIS idea, not Team Ninja's. The Team made it clear.


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## Just Another Gamer (Aug 23, 2012)

Gundam Eclipse said:


> Just Another Gamer said:
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> > emigre said:
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I guess this explains it easier http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhiteHairedPrettyBoy


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Gundam Eclipse said:
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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 23, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> I'm guessing you like looking at buffed up men instead of women.



Um it makes sense because the story involves a man trying to save his daughter. The main character isn't even stereotypically bad ass. He's simply a man trying to save his daughter. If anything he's the exact opposite of what you're trying to say.

Also since when was Raiden muscular and "drugged up buff" and "enjoys killing people". He's actually rather unbuff and appeals to the more "Japanese" crowd than a more "manly" character like Snake or Big Boss.

I'm just gonna say that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about since you're just throwing random male characters out there that are in no way representative of something sexist.


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## Rasas (Aug 23, 2012)

Can we drop this? Sexism and racism exist in a lot of things but just over inflate things. If anything blame some Japanese developers and their sexist games(not all their games are sexist but some are extremely)  not the western market. Sure in western games the characters have sex but if you are stuck fighting something or been with someone long enough it happens. Even in China and Korea they're F2P are rarely sexist. The problem is certain cultures just objective women and your going to have to accept that you might be bias and see things that aren't there. Watch the South Park episode on racism.

Lets talk about Team Ninja they said they won't be doing DLC characters for DOA5 and that is the newest game they are releasing. They may be releasing DOA5 at a bad time but there isn't that many fighting games being released during that time besides Tekken. They released DOA 3-4 at the launch on the new X-Box system and with the market the way it is this game failing may mean the death of the studio. NG3 and DOA didn't sell to well so this might be bad. Hopefully it will sell great but the demo didn't give me much hope in that.


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## Clarky (Aug 23, 2012)

Raidens design was made in mind to attract women to the series.....just saying


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> There's scenes such as her confrontation with Ridley in which she breaks down and is just a "weak little girl" and needs a stronger male character to defend her. Or that she's willing to literally run through fire for Adam and actively take damage because he didn't authorize the use of something as basic and harmless as an envirosuit. Like respecting her commander's decision to deactive her more devastating weapons (such as the super bomb or whatever she uses at the end of the game) is fine but shutting down even basic parts simply to submit to the will of Adam isn't just respect, it's submission.


I'd like to point out that all this had good reasons behind it which were well-rooted into the story. Samus was not the cold bounty hunter we know now, she was new into the business. She had great respect towards Adam as he was her commanding officer while she was a Space Marine and she chose to listen to him to keep the morale of the team up and keep his authority over the troops where it was supposed to be rather than undermine it, risking jeopardising the mission. As for the moments of weakness, again, she wasn't used to the solo style of combat yet. Before the events of Other M, she always had a team she could rely on. On the Bottle Ship, the team was there, but she was still a separate entity. She seemed a bit lonely to me - to use a poetic expression, lonely in a crowd. She had to rely on herself only while she still wanted "in" on the team, missing the old days, hence the overwhelming weakness which she finally overcomes. I enjoyed that internal struggle of hers and I liked watching her transform into a ruthless hunter as she was forced to watch her team die one by one until she lost her captain whom she counted on the most.


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## Rasas (Aug 23, 2012)

clarky said:


> Raidens design was made in mind to attract women to the series.....just saying


It was later but he was also made to see Snake from a third person perspective and be a fellow comrade that helps fight unlike Otacon who does more tactics and logistics.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 23, 2012)

Boobs sell.

It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?


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## Clarky (Aug 23, 2012)

Rasas said:


> clarky said:
> 
> 
> > Raidens design was made in mind to attract women to the series.....just saying
> ...



Raiden's design as in his looks, not so much how he was designed to fit in the game


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > There's scenes such as her confrontation with Ridley in which she breaks down and is just a "weak little girl" and needs a stronger male character to defend her. Or that she's willing to literally run through fire for Adam and actively take damage because he didn't authorize the use of something as basic and harmless as an envirosuit. Like respecting her commander's decision to deactive her more devastating weapons (such as the super bomb or whatever she uses at the end of the game) is fine but shutting down even basic parts simply to submit to the will of Adam isn't just respect, it's submission.
> ...



Like I said, her showing respect to a former CO by deactivating certain weapons is plausible but making herself endure unnecessary pain because she wants Adam's acceptance is beyond it. Plus the entire game revolves not around her personal quest, but about her pleasing Adam. I'm fine with a game that develops what happens between the two of them but the way it was set up here was almost as master and servant, not as it should be.

As for Ridley, she's fought him before but now she has a traumatic breakdown? She fought him in Metroid and Super Metroid. Plus it wasn't just generic fear. It was a full on mental breakdown as though she's fragile and, as women are stereotyped, weak. I mean we see plenty of protagonists in games (both male and female) face horrific things but grit through it because they have to. Why does Samus, whose shown to be capable of dispatching of many enemy targets single handedly and without issue and is able to face terrifying monsters without fear have a complete breakdown here? That alone doesn't make sense, but paired with the fact that she defeated him TWICE?

Also, before the events on Other M, she was still flying solo on these missions in Metroid and Super Metroid. Other M isn't a prequel to all the games, its set between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion.

I'd give the game more credit if it was a prequel to the entire franchise, if it was something like Samus' first gig after her military career and she's thrown into a situation she'd never have thought of. The situations she's usually thrown into. She goes to a planet to hunt down a bunch of generic Space Pirates but shit goes wrong and she's all alone. Kinda like the Tomb Raider reboot. Then it shows her getting tough and more independent and explains her development into a much stronger person in various situations. But it wasn't. Samus is a developed character. Not through cutscenes and text, but through mechanics and subtlety. To take an image which is generally known of her and liked about her and destroy it is character assassination to the highest degree.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> Boobs sell.
> 
> It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. *Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?*



If it meant guys wouldn't treat women like a bunch of sex objects in real life cause they see that shit is okay in video games? Or having gigantic, unrealistic boobs bouncing in my face all the time in video games? Fuck yes.




Just Another Gamer said:


> Ummm....I haven't seen any of the female DoA characters to be *helpless, ditzy and submissive, usually in games they aren't portrayed like that anyway so I don't get why that is brought up*. I rather find thats up to preference because I really don't mind playing as any female character even those that are portrayed as sex objects and I hardly see it as a problem or in a way I can't since guys get portrayed like that as well and it seems no one gives a shit which baffles me and I find it a double standard so I do overlook it.



This post is so wrong I'm not even sure what to say exactly. There are many, many, _many_ games that portray women as ditzy, helpless and submissive. I translate otome games, so I know for a fact that this is true. Guys like you make the world a lot worse for women. Some guys... Okay, many guys, who play video games with women being displayed as sex objects, weak, brainless or all of the above, tend to treat _real_ women just like that.
Some females still have their dignity. Surprising, I know. I almost couldn't believe it myself 



Anyway, back to the discussion on Team DicksNinja!


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## DS1 (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> Boobs sell.
> 
> It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?



Because there's no middle ground there. And we all know girls don't play video games, so rock on, bro!

Non-sarcastic response: I don't care if I have to play as a twig, so long as a game is good. God forbid anyone would make a game good before they tried to sell it on the character designs. And yes, there has always been an element of sex appeal in game promotion, but not nearly to the degree that it is today. I will give up boobs in games left and right to return to a culture that's a little more civil. But blah blah blah, I see Phoenix responded before me, and she's probably got something better than I do.

edit - and my god, I love me some Japanese games, but holy crap does 90% of what comes out today creep me the hell out. The games are probably decent, but the shit they do to promote it is *ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 24, 2012)

Phoenix Goddess said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Boobs sell.
> ...


I would think that if one treats women like sex objects based on something he sees in a videogame, it speaks of bigger problems with him than the game _"promoting"_ sexist behaviour.

Huge boobs, strong abs, it's all simply to increase appeal of their games. Given that males represent the large majority of gamers, it makes sense. Huge muscular guys are in games because that's supposed to represent what guys would strive to be while girls with overly large assets are supposed to increase sex appeal (BECAUSE SEX SELLS). If you guys are going to throw a fit, don't simply blame Team Ninja, blame the entire damn industry.



Guild McCommunist said:


> ~snip


Samus not activating her weapons doesn't have anything to do with respect to Adam. It's merely a game mechanic (like in other Metroid games, progressive unlocks) Sakamoto wanted to incorporate but he failed to realize how that would conflict with the story.

I don't think Sakamoto tried to make the game sexist, it's just his inability to write a good story and meld it with game mechanics that is at fault. Another often cited example of the game being sexist is when Adam shoots Samus in the back near the end. That was just Sakamoto wanting to have a heroic ending with Adamn leaving like a bad-ass motherfucker. Except he went about it all wrong.

Honestly, he should have just hired some guys who actually know how to write a story (like they did with Mass Effect), outlined Samus's character and let them do the story. He didn't have much experience and it shows.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > ~snip
> ...



But through all this playtesting and vetting not a single person raised their hand and said "Um, yeah, that's a bit sexist"? Plus things like this don't just develop through a bunch of unfortunate coincidences. He definitely had a view of this character that was not a favorable view on women. Mechanics aside, it doesn't explain scenes like Ridley's attack or Adam shooting her.

I won't say this as a solidified point since I CBA to find the correct citation but I thought there was something like Sakamoto felt that the image of Samus in all previous games was incorrect so he threw it all out the window or something.

I mean a lot of stars have to align for a game to be equal parts character assassination and sexism as Other M was. That's like the writer of Gettysburg accidentally writing Birth of a Nation. Yes I'm using Birth of a Nation references a lot but it's the most well known offensive piece of media at least in America.


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## DS1 (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> Phoenix Goddess said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...



Ughhh, see, spamming "sex sells" is a perfect example of 'mansplaining', which is when a man talks down to a female about how she's being oppressed and disregarded because of any number of bullshit reasons (in this case: because it's good business sense!). PG isn't stupid, she understands marketing, and also that you're just trying to explain away sexism as if it's common sense.

And sure, blame the guy who acts like a neanderthal, not the people who enabled the culture and perpetuated it. If you'd think for a minute instead of defending Joe-marketing exec, you'd admit a number of the most successful games include a wide range of character designs, not the two laziest ones (space marine and the uncanny melons).

*cough* I mean, no offense, but it (the mainsplaining) such a tired thing and I see so many dudes do it on the internet all the time. Dudes who are probably not sexist, but don't think before they spit out a bunch of crap and then I cry because it's like, "WHY INTERNET, WHY!!"


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## Foxi4 (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'd give the game more credit if it was a prequel to the entire franchise, if it was something like Samus' first gig after her military career and she's thrown into a situation she'd never have thought of. The situations she's usually thrown into. She goes to a planet to hunt down a bunch of generic Space Pirates but shit goes wrong and she's all alone. Kinda like the Tomb Raider reboot. Then it shows her getting tough and more independent and explains her development into a much stronger person in various situations. But it wasn't. Samus is a developed character. Not through cutscenes and text, but through mechanics and subtlety. To take an image which is generally known of her and liked about her and destroy it is character assassination to the highest degree.


I just realized that you're right - it's not a full-on prequel to the series, it is in-between missions. Well, I guess it could be just the stress enduced by re-living memories with her comrades but yeah, they might've overdone it in that case. I still don't think it's _that bad_ though, but then again, I'm not a hardcore fan - I just enjoyed her pictured as a human rather than a walking tank.


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## BORTZ (Aug 24, 2012)

*reads topic title*
Good.


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## Rizsparky (Aug 24, 2012)

Woudnt be saying the same if they animated obscenely large male private parts...


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

Rizsparky said:


> Woudnt be saying the same if they animated obscenely large male private parts...



I'm pretty sure we would.


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## Rizsparky (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Rizsparky said:
> 
> 
> > Woudnt be saying the same if they animated obscenely large male private parts...
> ...



I was reffering to those people seeing nothing wrong with humongous jigglies in your face.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

Rizsparky said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Rizsparky said:
> ...



Sorry, my bad.

Yes I agree with you now that I understand.


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## DigitalDeviant (Aug 24, 2012)

hmmm, perhaps in Japan big breasts are more attractive since it would seem Japanese guys don't exactly see well endowed Japanese girls in real life?


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## DSGamer64 (Aug 24, 2012)

Blah blah blah morals in video games blah blah blah. That's all I hear when people bitch about stupid things like boob physics. Who cares? People in this world need to stop holding themselves at some unseen higher level of morality then everyone who makes something perverted or something for mature people. I don't see what the big deal is, body physics is severely lacking in games, it seems developers want to go more for the whole realistic world but not realistic characters idea, which is funny because a lot of action movies now are the exact opposite, the characters are capable of doing things that are beyond the realm of ability in the real world because the directors make them that way (aka Neo stopping bullets in dead air in The Matrix), yet some of the worlds are not very realistic at all.

Honestly, I'd rather see more mature content and I have no problem with boob physics, tits bouncing is as natural as a moose pooping in the woods. And why shouldn't they make more mature content for adults? Why do people act like every game created should be accessable to everyone? Mature titles are still mature, so I don't see why we can't have more porn games.


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## Gahars (Aug 24, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> Blah blah blah morals in video games blah blah blah. That's all I hear when people bitch about stupid things like boob physics. Who cares? People in this world need to stop holding themselves at some unseen higher level of morality then everyone who makes something perverted or something for mature people. I don't see what the big deal is, body physics is severely lacking in games, it seems developers want to go more for the whole realistic world but not realistic characters idea, which is funny because a lot of action movies now are the exact opposite, the characters are capable of doing things that are beyond the realm of ability in the real world because the directors make them that way (aka Neo stopping bullets in dead air in The Matrix), yet some of the worlds are not very realistic at all.
> 
> Honestly, I'd rather see more mature content and I have no problem with boob physics, tits bouncing is as natural as a moose pooping in the woods. And why shouldn't they make more mature content for adults? Why do people act like every game created should be accessable to everyone? Mature titles are still mature, so I don't see why we can't have more porn games.



Did you see that gif in the first post? There's nothing realistic about _those_ physics. (Also, if unrealistic bouncing breasts are your definition of mature... you might want to reevaluate your vocabulary.)

And to answer your last bit... say hello to the Uncanny Valley.


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## AceTrainerJason (Aug 24, 2012)

Personally I don't give a shit, I play games to have fun and honestly don't even look at the female characters sexually and my friends already have girlfriends and don't give a shit either. Not always the case, but from where I am no one even knows what hentai is, let alone loli. I would like to see less sexual female characters but at the end of the day I don't care. You guys must want to ban porn as well then if you have a problem with unreal shit in video games. Let the companies do what they want, don't like it, don't buy it.


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## bowser (Aug 24, 2012)

AceTrainerJason said:


> Personally I don't give a shit, I play games to have fun and honestly don't even look at the female characters sexually and my friends already have girlfriends and don't give a shit either. Not always the case, but from where I am no one even knows what hentai is, let alone loli. I would like to see less sexual female characters but at the end of the day I don't care. You guys must want to ban porn as well then if you have a problem with unreal shit in video games. Let the companies do what they want, don't like it, don't buy it.


I like your avatar


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## ShadowSoldier (Aug 24, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> What bullshit.
> 
> Many various forms of entertainment in Japan do not degrade women or use sex as a selling point. This guy just watches too much anime/porn.



Which a lot of people do in Japan, so what are you complaining for?

Honestly, I think the DOA games look great, aside from the insanely jiggly tits, some cases they aren't bad, and I even have to admit, the girls are ridiculously hot. I mean I won't lie, I love playing as Hitomi in the DOA games because she is the hottest piece of ass ever. And seeing her in DOAX2 was amazing. But, the fighting in DOA is probably the best I've ever played, so having some eye candy along with great gameplay is A-OK in my books and I totally welcome it.


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## Elrinth (Aug 24, 2012)

Phoenix Goddess said:


> Some guys... Okay, many guys, who play video games with women being displayed as sex objects, weak, brainless or all of the above, tend to treat _real_ women just like that. Some females still have their dignity. Surprising, I know. I almost couldn't believe it myself  Anyway, back to the discussion on Team DicksNinja!



Yes, very nice imagination you have. But too bad for you, it's all a lie. Now go back to the real life and learn that "many guys" don't treat real life women like weak, brainless -sex objects-.
If you were trying to be sarcastic you won tho.

As for team ninja. I think they have the right to express whatever kind of characters they like. It's freedom of creativity and speech. There is no real people trying to be depicted. If there happens to be some people alike, then that's pure coincidence.


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## Pleng (Aug 24, 2012)

I don't get it... I treat real life women like weak, brainless -sex objects, and I've never even played ONE of these games...


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## Gahars (Aug 24, 2012)

Elrinth said:


> Phoenix Goddess said:
> 
> 
> > Some guys... Okay, many guys, who play video games with women being displayed as sex objects, weak, brainless or all of the above, tend to treat _real_ women just like that. Some females still have their dignity. Surprising, I know. I almost couldn't believe it myself  Anyway, back to the discussion on Team DicksNinja!
> ...



Could this drivel be any more patronizing? I'm just not sure if its possible.



> As for team ninja. I think they have the right to express whatever kind of characters they like. It's freedom of creativity and speech. There is no real people trying to be depicted. If there happens to be some people alike, then that's pure coincidence.



No one is denying Team Ninja's freedom to make their crappy breast bounce simulators. However, that same freedom of creativity and speech a) applies to criticism as well, and b) doesn't shield Team Ninja from criticism. Also, since some people seem to be having trouble with this, we convey our understanding of the world through the fiction we create and spread; it becomes a commentary on our values, ideals, etc. When we have games where the women are objectified to a blatant degree like this... well, what sort of message does that send?


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## bowser (Aug 24, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Which a lot of people do in Japan, so what are you complaining for?
> 
> Honestly, I think the DOA games look great, aside from the insanely jiggly tits, some cases they aren't bad, and I even have to admit, the girls are ridiculously hot. I mean I won't lie, I love playing as Hitomi in the DOA games because *she is the hottest piece of ass ever*. And seeing her in DOAX2 was amazing. But, the fighting in DOA is probably the best I've ever played, so having some eye candy along with great gameplay is A-OK in my books and I totally welcome it.


Objectification, anyone?


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## ShadowSoldier (Aug 24, 2012)

bowser said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Which a lot of people do in Japan, so what are you complaining for?
> ...



Not really. If you're going to say that's objectification, then you might as well say every single person who says someone is good looking is objectification. Granted I may have said it a bit too much, but hey, it's an opinion, and it's a video game girl, so who cares.


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## MelodieOctavia (Aug 24, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> bowser said:
> 
> 
> > ShadowSoldier said:
> ...



Words fail me to explain everything that's wrong with this statement.


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## ShadowSoldier (Aug 24, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > bowser said:
> ...



You honestly never thought a video game character was attractive?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> You honestly never thought a video game character was attractive?



There's a difference between attractive and objectified.


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## ShadowSoldier (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > You honestly never thought a video game character was attractive?
> ...



Depends on the person who's saying it and their definition and what they mean by it.


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## MelodieOctavia (Aug 24, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > ShadowSoldier said:
> ...



I'm pretty sure "Hottest piece of ass ever" is objectification, by anyone and everyone but the lowest common denominator's definition.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 24, 2012)

wait.... If a sexist video game that objectifies women makes someone think that its okay and makes them sexiest, wouldn't violent video games then make people think its okay to be violent and then in turn make them violent?

Objectifying women and glorifying death, carnage and mayhem.

Boobs and Blood..... Boobs and blood.................


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> wait.... If a sexist video game that objectifies women makes someone think that its okay and makes them sexiest, wouldn't violent video games then make people think its okay to be violent and then in turn make them violent?
> 
> Objectifying women and glorifying death, carnage and mayhem.
> 
> Boobs and Blood..... Boobs and blood.................



The differences is that there are games that endorse violence and games that just have it. A great example would be Spec Ops: The Line. It has violence but it doesn't glorify it. In fact it condones it more than anything else makes you, as the player, feel bad for using it. Games with sexist characters often endorse or glorify sexist images. I wouldn't say many games try to promote the image that violence is great.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 24, 2012)

DS1 said:


> Ughhh, see, spamming &quot;sex sells&quot; is a perfect example of 'mansplaining', which is when a man talks down to a female about how she's being oppressed and disregarded because of any number of bullshit reasons (in this case: because it's good business sense!). PG isn't stupid, she understands marketing, and also that you're just trying to explain away sexism as if it's common sense.
> 
> And sure, blame the guy who acts like a neanderthal, not the people who enabled the culture and perpetuated it. If you'd think for a minute instead of defending Joe-marketing exec, you'd admit a number of the most successful games include a wide range of character designs, not the two laziest ones (space marine and the uncanny melons).
> 
> *cough* I mean, no offense, but it (the mainsplaining) such a tired thing and I see so many dudes do it on the internet all the time. Dudes who are probably not sexist, but don't think before they spit out a bunch of crap and then I cry because it's like, &quot;WHY INTERNET, WHY!!&quot;


This is all one big over-reaction. The Dead or Alive series features harmless unrealistic depictions of women with overly large assets. I don't see how that is as sexist or as harmful as you guys are saying.

Depictions of women with large boobs isn't any more sexist than the super-buff white men we see in many Western games.

No one is going to turn into a women-abuser by playing these games. It's fiction, lighten the fuck up.


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## DS1 (Aug 24, 2012)

soulx said:


> DS1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ughhh, see, spamming &quot;sex sells&quot; is a perfect example of 'mansplaining', which is when a man talks down to a female about how she's being oppressed and disregarded because of any number of bullshit reasons (in this case: because it's good business sense!). PG isn't stupid, she understands marketing, and also that you're just trying to explain away sexism as if it's common sense.
> ...



This is another mainsplaining tactic called, "But what about the menz!". But sure, feel free to post about how emasculated you feel when you play Gears of War, and then deal with everyone telling you you're uptight.



> No one is going to turn into a women-abuser by playing these games. It's fiction, lighten the fuck up.



And that's called a false dichotomy. Just because nobody is going to turn into a 'women abuser' (not proven, but whatever), doesn't mean the games don't have other ill effects, the least of which are on the culture. I've played games for waaayyy too long, and I never kick back and think, "Man, thank god games are getting sleazier!"


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 24, 2012)

DS1 said:


> This is another mainsplaining tactic called, &quot;But what about the menz!&quot;. But sure, feel free to post about how emasculated you feel when you play Gears of War, and then deal with everyone telling you you're uptight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mansplaining tactic? Enough with the bullshit terms. My comparison still stands, no one bitched about super-buff men in some Western games being sexist but all of a sudden, we have some unrealistic depictions of boobs and we all throw a fuss?

What ill-effects would this have? Absolutely nothing. Boobs in videogames doesn't turn a guy into a sexist women abuser just like violence in GTA doesn't turn you into a mass-murderer.

There are sexy girls in the DoA series, yes. It wouldn't be Dead or Alive without it. That doesn't make the game sexist or offensive, though. To say so is backwards thinking.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2012)

Muscles on men aren't offensive in video games. They often fit the scenario. Would you expect a fat neckbeard to be in this war scenarios? Of course not. You're playing as a soldier or warrior or something like that. They make sense.

Nor are they entirely emphasized. Developers aren't devoting entire resources to making sure we have very pleasing muscles on our characters. They're not devoting resources into developing a jiggle physics engine like they are here. That's the difference.

The uncanny physics of breasts here just makes the characters objectified sexually. Attractive women are in most games but the point of the character often isn't to be attractive. Here the whole point of having a female cast is so you can stare at their breasts. That's sexist.

It's the emphasis they're putting on the sexual aspect of each character that's disgusting, having muscles or large breasts on a character isn't so long as it's just there and not a feature.


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## DSGamer64 (Aug 24, 2012)

Elrinth said:


> Phoenix Goddess said:
> 
> 
> > Some guys... Okay, many guys, who play video games with women being displayed as sex objects, weak, brainless or all of the above, tend to treat _real_ women just like that. Some females still have their dignity. Surprising, I know. I almost couldn't believe it myself  Anyway, back to the discussion on Team DicksNinja!
> ...



Bullshit, more guys treat women like sex objects now then ever before. If you have never been to a club, you have no experience with how some guys try to talk to women and I will tell you that it makes me ashamed to be a man with how some dudes treat women. Are you going to blame the women for wanting to look attractive? Women are depicted as sex objects less in video games then people seem to realize and world wide media as a whole has really done an about face when it comes to how women are depicted in TV, film and gaming. Music is one of the few mediums of entertainment where women are constantly trying to sell music as sex ojects, and that in itself is disgusting. I am not a person who advocates women's rights, but I can for sure say that women are depicted less as sex objects in mainstream gaming today then you seem to thinkk.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Muscles on men aren't offensive in video games. They often fit the scenario. Would you expect a fat neckbeard to be in this war scenarios? Of course not. You're playing as a soldier or warrior or something like that. They make sense.
> 
> Nor are they entirely emphasized. Developers aren't devoting entire resources to making sure we have very pleasing muscles on our characters. They're not devoting resources into developing a jiggle physics engine like they are here. That's the difference.
> 
> ...


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WalkingShirtlessScene

In most fighting games, we have the oh so common shirtless guy. Because fighting half-naked totally makes sense.

In the Gears of War series, the guys are unnaturally buff. To the point that it isn't just about fitting into the scenario. Do I really care, though? Not at all.

The women in the Dead or Alive series aren't just there so you can stare at their tits. If you actually played one of the games, you would know that. Sure part of the appeal is because of their assets but that's not the sole reason for their existence in the game.

Boob physics? It's unrealistic and certainly not offensive. It's a fictional part of a videogame, quit bitching.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 25, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> If you have never been to a club



This is GBAtemp. You might as well ask if they've ever been in a volcano.


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## DS1 (Aug 25, 2012)

soulx said:


> DS1 said:
> 
> 
> > This is another mainsplaining tactic called, &quot;But what about the menz!&quot;. But sure, feel free to post about how emasculated you feel when you play Gears of War, and then deal with everyone telling you you're uptight.
> ...




Yes. So many other guys have tried to make the same arguments that you have and failed so hard that it became necessary to put them all under an umbrella term. I'm tired of you going around in circles and randomly stating that anyone who has a problem with it is backwards.



Guild McCommunist said:


> DSGamer64 said:
> 
> 
> > If you have never been to a club
> ...



Incidentally I've been in a club called Volcano.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 25, 2012)

DS1 said:


> Yes. So many other guys have tried to make the same arguments that you have and failed so hard that it became necessary to put them all under an umbrella term. I'm tired of you going around in circles and randomly stating that anyone who has a problem with it is backwards.


It is _backwards_. If some unrealistic depictions of boobs bother you, then you need to lighten up. The game won't make you a women abuser, does not focus solely on boob physics (contrary to what some may think) and is fiction.


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## DSGamer64 (Aug 25, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> DSGamer64 said:
> 
> 
> > If you have never been to a club
> ...



Fair enough. Seriously though, people seem to think that gaming objectifies women, I'd like to see someone find me some proof in the mainstream gaming world that it's true. In many games women are heroes just like men are, or they are warriors and fighters, just like men are. In what mainstream video game are women truly depicted as sex objects in such a way that they are completely naked or they are forced into having sex with a character, being constantly groped by men or any other such sexual act? The only games I can recall in recent history that at least you know, had something mildly sexual were Mass Effect and God of War. Women are not objectified as sex objects in the majority of video games, and anyone who says otherwise has their head up their own arse.


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## koimayeul (Aug 30, 2012)

I won't complain as i love bouncing breasts.


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## Dingoo-fan 32 (Aug 30, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> I won't complain as i love bouncing breasts.



Haha, me too. (Who doesn't?)


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## koimayeul (Aug 30, 2012)

Dingoo-fan 32 said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > I won't complain as i love bouncing breasts.
> ...


Not any normal, self respecting adult human male as far as i know. Just.. Mesmerizing.


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## Dingoo-fan 32 (Aug 30, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Dingoo-fan 32 said:
> 
> 
> > koimayeul said:
> ...



Not that i'm normal or a adult.


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## koimayeul (Aug 30, 2012)

Dingoo-fan 32 said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Dingoo-fan 32 said:
> ...


Then you'r at the good school of life my son, focus on those twins bouncing.


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## Dingoo-fan 32 (Aug 30, 2012)

koimayeul said:


> Dingoo-fan 32 said:
> 
> 
> > koimayeul said:
> ...



Obviously, i was just kidding. I'm not that kind of pervert.


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## koimayeul (Aug 30, 2012)

Dingoo-fan 32 said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Dingoo-fan 32 said:
> ...


No pervert, showing appreciation for attractiveness that's all. Girls power!


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