# Iwata: Nintendo to expand beyond games



## Gahars (Apr 28, 2014)

> In an interview with Diamond.jp, Iwata was asked to comment further on his statements in January that Nintendo would "expand into a new business area" and "extend the definition of entertainment" with its 10-year 'Quality of Life' platform.
> 
> Iwata replied that the public perception of Nintendo as merely a video game company is one he aims to change, as was the aim of his late predecessor Hiroshi Yamauchi.
> 
> ..."So even though we won't chance the fact that our focus is on video games, I felt the need to take that occasion to state that Nintendo is a company that can do whatever it wants."


CVG
[prebreak]Continue Reading[/prebreak]
In the words of Charley Dinkens, "They were the best of times, they were the end of times..."

I don't know, I have mixed feelings on all this. On the one hand, I can understand why they don't want all of their eggs in one basket. On the other hand, though, it doesn't exactly show a lot of confidence, and this whole "Quality of Life" thing is kind of iffy. We don't even know exactly what this is yet.

So, is this the beginning of the end? Or the ending of the old beginning, which will give way to a new beginning? Or neither? All of the above?

Please understand, because I don't.


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## Black-Ice (Apr 28, 2014)

They clearly don't feel comfortable enough to remain simply a games company after watching the wii u fail to be anything useful for anyone.


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## Youkai (Apr 28, 2014)

Hmm I don't know if this is any good at all ...

from my experience it is VERY hard to do many things the same time "good" mostly it will be either "okay" or actually rather bad 
It is understandable that Nintendo is "scared" after they had to see that even that one thing they were doing turned out to be at best okay ... but for other things they need new employees and so on until Nintendo is only a mix of everything and nothing.


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## elunesgrace (Apr 28, 2014)

Well Nintendo is a big company with big cash reserves.

I don't see the issue in laterally diversifying. As long as it doesn't take away from core competency, and isn't something completely misaligned with their current industry.


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## avran89 (Apr 28, 2014)

Nintendo was originally a consumer electronics company in the past not just a video game company. I wouldn't call it a sign of the end or anything like that, all businesses have to adapt and change with the changing demographic that buys their product in order to stay in business or else they'll end  up like Blockbuster. I wouldn't put it past Iwata to expand Nintendo into Smartphones and Tablets. I can imagine them making Cooking Mama and WiiFit apps on Smartphones and Tablets


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## Chary (Apr 28, 2014)

The problem is keeping the quality. If you stretch your company to do new things, quality needs to be ensured.


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## TheCasketMan (Apr 28, 2014)

Just make a new console with next gen specs and a more dev/cost friendly architecture focused on third parties and some first parties that are not developing anything for the wii u. Instead of completely abandoning the wii u, interchange devs. For example, let Retro make a metroid on the U, while another dev makes a Starfox game for the next gen system, and when Retro finishes Metroid U, then start working on another Metroid for the next gen, and the same thing with Star Fox. This way, people that bought the wii u won't whine about Nintendo abandoning it. After a short while, the the next gen system will replace the Wii U. It is like what happened with the GBA and DS.
Don't hate for me this, but that is my strategy if I were CEO.


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## Nightwish (Apr 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


> On the other hand, though, it doesn't exactly show a lot of confidence, and this whole "Quality of Life" thing is kind of iffy.


I imagine it means things like Wii Fit.


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## porkiewpyne (Apr 28, 2014)

So back to making playing cards?

Or they could kickstart their failed love hotel business again


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## GHANMI (Apr 28, 2014)

porkiewpyne said:


> Or they could kickstart their failed love hotel business again


 
It wouldn't work out... They closed it in the first place because they tried to keep the whole thing family-friendly, which kind of goes against the point of such hotels in the first place (giving Japanese stuck in very small apartments/poorly heated houses, a comfortable place to... BREED)
It seems the warning sign applied to even the middle-aged married couples.
Needless to say, it wasn't... very successful.


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## kristianity77 (Apr 28, 2014)

Nintendo gonna go full circle and go back to producing playing cards?


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## Veho (Apr 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I can understand


That's all he ever asked for    ;O;  



Gahars said:


> On the other hand, though, it doesn't exactly show a lot of confidence, and this whole "Quality of Life" thing is kind of iffy. We don't even know exactly what this is yet.


A continuation of what they started with the Pokewalker, Wii vitality sensor, Balance Board, Wii Fit, Dr Kawashima's Brain Training... the Personal Trainer series (Math/Cooking/Walking), America Test Kitchen, Art Academy... Health/lifestyle apps and accessories that aren't directly related to video games.


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## Hero-Link (Apr 28, 2014)

TheCasketMan said:


> Just make a new console with next gen specs and a more dev/cost friendly architecture focused on third parties and some first parties that are not developing anything for the wii u. Instead of completely abandoning the wii u, interchange devs. For example, let Retro make a metroid on the U, while another dev makes a Starfox game for the next gen system, and when Retro finishes Metroid U, then start working on another Metroid for the next gen, and the same thing with Star Fox. This way, people that bought the wii u won't whine about Nintendo abandoning it. After a short while, the the next gen system will replace the Wii U. It is like what happened with the GBA and DS.
> Don't hate for me this, but that is my strategy if I were CEO.


 
This wouldn't work in a million years.


Also Nintendo never stopped making Hanafuda Cards (or whatever they are called).

I believe they will try something different soon... but i don't think it will be in the same area as the WiiFit/Health area.


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## NakedFaerie (Apr 28, 2014)

Quote "Nintendo is a company that can do whatever it wants." Ummm, yea it can but it wont make any money that way. It has to do what its customers want NOT what it choses or it will loose those customers.
Like now, if it kills off the WiiU I will be really annoyed and I WONT buy anything else Nintendo and I will tell everyone I know to do the same. We will all boycott Nintendo so they will loose doing whatever they want.
They need to keep their customers happy or they end their own existence.


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## pwsincd (Apr 28, 2014)

my sony camcorder , and digital camera , and TV says hi to our ps3/4 . My samsung TV and tablet says hi to my samsung kettle and toaster.  Is it really a surprise that they want to have more irons in more fires.


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## duffmmann (Apr 28, 2014)

pwsincd said:


> my sony camcorder , and digital camera , and TV says hi to our ps3/4 . My samsung TV and tablet says hi to my samsung kettle and toaster. Is it really a surprise that they want to have more irons in more fires.


 

Exactly, and Microsoft doesn't only make consoles and games, they make Operating Systems and practical applications like the Office Suite.  

Seems Nintendo has finally (re)realized that there is more out there in the world than just video games.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 28, 2014)

Well, hello Nintendo Clothing Line, Nintendo Music Store, Nintendo Food, Nintendo Mobile and Nintendo OS.


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## duffmmann (Apr 28, 2014)

WiiUBricker said:


> Well, hello Nintendo Clothing Line, Nintendo Music Store, Nintendo Food, *Nintendo Mobile* and Nintendo OS.


 

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we actually do end up seeing some sort of Nintendo phone in the future.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Apr 28, 2014)

Mario, Peach and Rosalina -- The Threesome Duo coming soon on Blu-ray and DVD for 18+ Only!


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## Clydefrosch (Apr 28, 2014)

i say, it'll be comics and movies.

or they'll do what facebook does. just buy some random emerging technologie and go with it.


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## lokomelo (Apr 28, 2014)

Nintendo will be on fruit business from now on...


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## osaka35 (Apr 28, 2014)

Just because B followed A, does not mean B is caused by A. I can see them doing this regardless if the Wii U was selling 2x the other consoles or if it was selling half.

From my perspective, they have loads in the bank and they want to spread out. Every company seems to be doing this, so why is this a surprise?


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## WiiCube_2013 (Apr 28, 2014)

Clydefrosch said:


> i say, it'll be comics and movies.
> 
> or they'll do what facebook does. just buy some random emerging technologie and go with it.


 
I'd be cool if they did new anime series of Super Mario, Legend of Zelda, Star Fox, Super Smash Bros. and other franchises of theirs.


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## air2004 (Apr 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


> CVG
> 
> In the words of Charley Dinkens, "They were the best of times, they were the end of times..."
> 
> ...


 
*It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way* – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.


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## duffmmann (Apr 28, 2014)

Clydefrosch said:


> i say, it'll be comics and movies.
> 
> or they'll do what facebook does. just buy some random emerging technologie and go with it.


 

Maybe some sort of Miiverse social network, seems plausible.  Don't know how well that would catch on though.


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## Ashtonx (Apr 28, 2014)

It's just nintendo looking down on games industry again.


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## Hanafuda (Apr 28, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> Nintendo gonna go full circle and go back to producing playing cards?


 


They never stopped. They also produce mahjong sets, go boards, chinese checker sets, etc. I've got one of their hanafuda decks (with this username, how could I not?).

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n09/index.html

Maybe this is just an end-run method for Nintendo to inject some new blood into their franchise set? Make some action hero movies, then make some games about them. Something to escape the mario-dk-metroid-kirby rut.


.


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## tbgtbg (Apr 28, 2014)

Nintendo it's a cereal now?


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## Dork (Apr 28, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> Nintendo it's a cereal now?


MariOs


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## Gahars (Apr 28, 2014)

air2004 said:


> *It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way* – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.


 

Why are you quoting Harry Potter? We're talking about Nintendo here, please stay on topic.


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## CathyRina (Apr 28, 2014)

Yay, Nintendo is doing questionable things again!


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## Hanafuda (Apr 28, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> Nintendo it's a cereal now?


 


Not around back in the 80's huh? That's been done already. 







.


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## Hyro-Sama (Apr 28, 2014)

You guys just don't understand. ;O;


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## HtheB (Apr 28, 2014)

lokomelo said:


> Nintendo will be on fruit business from now on...


 

Actually... Iwata knows it.... That the shit is bananas.
*(Skip to 2:30)*


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## Metoroid0 (Apr 28, 2014)

Short answer: Nintendo is stupid!
Long answer: Nintendo is very, very stupid!


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 28, 2014)

If they've really been planning this for a while, they've designed the Wii U quite poorly. They want to focus on more than games, and yet their new console which is expected to last 5+ years doesn't even have DVD/Blu-Ray or music CD playback?

I mean, those things are unimportant to me (I listen to music exclusively with my phone, and my PS3 works just fine for DVD and Blu-Ray), but lacking such features seems counterproductive to Nintendo's apparent goal. Either they really didn't think this through, or they weren't even planning this until very recently.

Then again, maybe this Quality of Life thing is way weirder than we thought and has nothing to do with extra features like media playback.


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## elunesgrace (Apr 28, 2014)

You guys need to look at the bigger picture here.

*Nintendo competes directly against SONY and Microsoft.*

Each console cycle there is usually a console that doesn't do so well. With SONY and Microsoft, if they don't do well in a division, they can push it off into their other divisions because they are so massive. In this way they can find balance until they push out a successful console. This allows them also to offset problems with investors and the stock market.

*Nintendo doesn't have this option.*

They are a purely gaming company. If they don't do well in a console cycle somewhere, they cannot offset it at all but are forced to rely mostly on cash reserves.

Nintendo doing this is a way to diversify their risk, and to ensure the survival of the company itself and to avoid unhappy investors. They need to show a way of profitability for investors, they need to show a plan.

Obviously gamers don't like the idea of a gaming company getting involved in nonsense like mobile gaming and other things out in left-field, but we have to think about the *why* behind this decision.


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## Social_Outlaw (Apr 28, 2014)

Nintendo just should had made Wii U into a Tv with a tablet. Why not? It would be way smarter Nintendo should start thinking outside the box.


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## MarioFanatic64 (Apr 28, 2014)

If there's one thing Nintendo sucks at, it's multitasking.

I'm kinda worried.


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## Densetsu (Apr 29, 2014)

I can understand the desire to branch out into other product lines. After all, Nintendo did start out as a hanafuda company. Imagine what would have happened (or what _wouldn't_ have happened) if Hiroshi Yamauchi _didn't_ venture out into video games back in the late 70's. 



Spoiler



Of course, it is possible to be a successful company with just one simple product. Look at Yoshida Kogyo Kabushikigaisha. All they make is zippers. If you're wearing something with a zipper right now, chances are, your zipper says YKK on it.


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## Flame (Apr 29, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> I can understand the desire to branch out into other product lines. After all, Nintendo did start out as a hanafuda company. Imagine what would have happened (or what _wouldn't_ have happened) if Hiroshi Yamauchi _didn't_ venture out into video games back in the late 70's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
wow man. thanks for that. I love learning stuff like that.

and YES my zipper does have YKK on it.


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## tbgtbg (Apr 29, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Not around back in the 80's huh? That's been done already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...









I used to eat the stuff for breakfast, d00d


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## osirisjem (Apr 29, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we actually do end up seeing some sort of Nintendo phone in the future.


 
You have to be kidding.
Nintendo can't make Game Consoles.
And you think they'll break into the ultra competitive phone market ?
Absolutely zero chance.
or less.


The QOL platform was announced to reassure investors that Nintendo was going to diversify in the future.  The lack of anything concrete about the idea just highlights it wasn't a long brewing idea .... it's just something to say to investors to keep them from dumping Nintendo stock.  

The idea that Nintendo is pursuing other platforms significantly reduces the chances they will ever release another Home Console.
The Wii U is probably the last.


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## luisedgarf (Apr 29, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> You have to be kidding.
> Nintendo can't make Game Consoles.
> And you think they'll break into the ultra competitive phone market ?
> Absolutely zero chance.
> ...


 
Can you explain better about this, rather than using one-liners?


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 29, 2014)

elunesgrace said:


> You guys need to look at the bigger picture here.
> 
> *Nintendo competes directly against SONY and Microsoft.*
> 
> ...


 
Except that PlayStation is one of the only departments that's making Sony money right now.

I get what you're saying (and it applies quite well to Microsoft, who weren't making money on the Xbox brand until recent years, iirc), but Sony isn't the best example of what you're saying.


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## calmwaters (Apr 29, 2014)

Gahars, you beast. Only you could come up with such depictions on a picture and then wonder if we should be excited about this. And nobody has been showing confidence in Nintendo lately: hopefully this move will be a boon to people's confidence in Nintendo and the things they do. And the quality of life is exactly what it sounds like: but hopefully their quality assurance will go up because they're kind of in the dumps right now. 

Well: the beginning of the end was when they released the Wii U. Underpowered, no games in two years: yup, definitely going under. Now, with this business move, they're hoping to turn the end of a beginning into a new beginning. And you, dedicated Nintendo fan that you are, should support this.  "Out with the old, in with the new", I think it goes.


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## duffmmann (Apr 29, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> You have to be kidding.
> Nintendo can't make Game Consoles.
> And you think they'll break into the ultra competitive phone market ?
> Absolutely zero chance.
> ...


 

Dude the mobile phone market is perfect for Nintendo. Every mobile analyst wants Nintendo to release games to the mobile stores. If Nintendo made their own phone and made mobile games and rereleased oldschool roms to be used only with their proprietary phone, then that could be a goldmine. I don't see why they wouldn't enter the "ultra competitive phone market" as their moto has always been about fun at an affordable cost, they could be the anti-apple. While their phones would be proprietary like Apple and have its own exclusive and vast game market, it would come at an incredibly affordable price as opposed to Apple's ridiculously expensive prices.

I don't want ^ this to happen.  But realistically, I can see this happening within the next decade for sure.  Maybe it wont, but I would not say its outside of the realm of possibilities at all.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 29, 2014)

So nintendo can do "whatever it wants"...
- Is selling 3DS rather well for now but not expecting sales like DS or gameboy line
- Wii U is selling rather bad...

When Nintendo says it can do "whatever it wants", I took it as "We don't care what the customers or developers think, we do our own shit.

... Which is funny because it kinda shows in how their business work in a certain way. But I won't make any argument about it or else this thread will derail.


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## duffmmann (Apr 29, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> So nintendo can do "whatever it wants"...
> - Is selling 3DS rather well for now *but not expecting sales like DS or gameboy line*
> - Wii U is selling rather bad...
> 
> ...


 

Um actually they definitely are expecting sales like that. The 3DS is selling like crazy, living up to its predecessors. It had a slow start, thats true, but now, its selling very well and constantly has games dominating the charts.

Second point is true though, Wii U isn't doing well at all.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 29, 2014)

Stop.


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## duffmmann (Apr 29, 2014)

TheDarkSeed said:


> Stop.


 

Hammer time?

or

Collaborate and listen?


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## loco365 (Apr 29, 2014)

WiiUBricker said:


> Nintendo Mobile and Nintendo OS.


 
Not gonna lie these would be pretty cool.


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## Gahars (Apr 29, 2014)

Team Fail said:


> Not gonna lie these would be pretty cool.


 

No they wouldn't.

Now, if they used "NintenGo" and/or "NintendOS," well, maybe we'd have something.


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## Vipera (Apr 29, 2014)

Nintendo condoms.

"You found the princess? Then stop jumping!"


I will show myself out.


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## megaexplosion (Apr 29, 2014)

Dunno if this has been stated yet but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo released a tablet-like device catering to kids of smaller ages. With already known characters like Mario and the gang, app-like games for children wouldn't be tough to engineer. Something like the Leapfrog or whatever. 

Personally, I would love to see things like the Zelda manga. Maybe more commercial things of other media like that would be really cool if done right. Series like Zelda and Metroid might benefit. While something like children's Mario books could do okay. I'm not too sure about the cell phone market though. :o Maybe apps?


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## NakedFaerie (Apr 29, 2014)

WiiUBricker said:


> Well, hello Nintendo Clothing Line, Nintendo Music Store, Nintendo Food, Nintendo Mobile and Nintendo OS.


BUT It wont be normal. The closeline with be vertical, the Music store will only be 1950 to 1951 country, the food will all be jelly beans and the OS will be only for the Nintendo mobile which nobody will buy as its from the 1970s.

They do a lot of things wrong. Like a square controller which is the most uncomfortable controller ever invented. Its so not for the hand they needed to add a strap to stop it falling out. You dont see any straps on $ony or Micro$ofts controllers do you.

Ok, so the PS3 motion controller has a strap, but its round and a lot more comfortable than the wiimote.
We learn these things as a kid. You don't put the square block in the round hole. Well thats what NintenDOH have done.
YouTube is full of clips where people break things with the wiimote. You dont see any with the PS3 motion controller do you.


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## grossaffe (Apr 29, 2014)

WiiUBricker said:


> Well, hello *Nintendo Clothing Line*, Nintendo Music Store, Nintendo Food, Nintendo Mobile and Nintendo OS.


Is it time to finally bring the NES knitting peripheral to the public? http://kotaku.com/5939210/this-long...ould-have-let-you-make-sweaters-with-your-nes


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 29, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> Is it time to finally bring the NES knitting peripheral to the public? http://kotaku.com/5939210/this-long...ould-have-let-you-make-sweaters-with-your-nes


That's awesome. Even grandmas can play Nintendo!


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## pwsincd (Apr 29, 2014)

Densetsu said:


> I can understand the desire to branch out into other product lines. After all, Nintendo did start out as a hanafuda company. Imagine what would have happened (or what _wouldn't_ have happened) if Hiroshi Yamauchi _didn't_ venture out into video games back in the late 70's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


erm your link says different : More product lines became available with the _Quicklon_ (sometimes called _Cosmolon_) fasteners in December 1981. International and product expansion continued during the 1980s, with a real estate business in Singapore in December 1984, an agricultural business in Brazil in January 1985, and a plant in Indonesia in September 1986 producing zippers and aluminium parts for buildings. The company was finally renamed _YKK_ in August 1994.


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## shakirmoledina (Apr 29, 2014)

As Densetsu said, I doubt its going to be something huge at the moment. They shall probably start with the basic and simple technological items such as music players, headphones, and other accessories then probably progress into the bigger commodities such as TVs


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## Veho (Apr 29, 2014)

NakedFaerie said:


> You don't put the square block in the round hole.


What have you been doing with your controller


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## anhminh (Apr 29, 2014)

Maybe they should start a chain of fast food restaurant with Mario Figurine for every lunch set.
Who doesn't want a Mushroom burger


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## tbgtbg (Apr 29, 2014)

TheDarkSeed said:


> Stop.





duffmmann said:


> Hammer time?
> 
> or
> 
> Collaborate and listen?




or

In the name of love, before you break my heart


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 29, 2014)

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...s-expansion-into-health-improvement-platform/

I read the related news, I'm guessing this is what Iwata is talking about. But is there more?


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## ieatpixels (Apr 29, 2014)

well this is nothing that appeals to me.
it will all be vitality sensors and pedometers. 

Waste of resources IMO.


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## alex.rshare (Apr 29, 2014)

avran89 said:


> I can imagine them making Cooking Mama and WiiFit apps on Smartphones and Tablets


 
Nintendo already said that they won't put their games on smartphones and any other non-Nintendo device.

And, just to clarify, Cooking Mama has nothing to do with Nintendo. it's an Office Create's game published by Taito and others...


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## DSAndi (Apr 29, 2014)

Im actually wondering why Nintendo is still in buissnes.
Dont know im totally bored to see the next Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, Zelda and so on.
Also bring out old games with new graphics on the new system is lame. Sorry why buy an old game with better graphics ?
Granted i dont watch Videogame market or look at Nintendo what they realesed or will.
I had the wii that did look pomising but failed later ( for me ). Later i did use the wii only for hacking and homebrew not playing anything.
The Wii U seems to mee a Wii with better graphics and tablet controller and that what ppl that own it tell me too.
Do i see a reason to buy the Wii U ? nope. I still have my DS lite, some ppl still have DSI and a lot ppl that have the 3DS play more 2D then 3D. 
Maybe its mostly because i dont have much time to play anymore and the few times i can, i actually play on PC. 
Games are cheap or even free to play (Hearthstone, Lineage2) and most console games come out for PC too.

Mainly the reason i dont watch at Videogame consoles is the PC can emulate most of the old consoles pretty well, Games get cheap after a year or so. You get top Games for 7-10 Euros so why bother buy a console anymore ?
Ok now u say u dont get Nintendo Games on PC, thats right but i dont really need them. Beside that PC can actually emulate the Wii and the few games i tested run pretty well.


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

DSAndi said:


> Lot of text


 
Not everyone has the money to build a 'decent' PC, or know what to look for.

Regarding that the Wii U is a Wii with better graphics and a tablet controller, that's the whole idea of newer consoles. Better graphics and support for newer games. Did you expect it to fly, or even make a sandwich?
Nintendo at least tries to innovate the way people play. Sony and Microsoft don't really use new ways for gaming. There might be the Kinect and Playstation Move accessories, but they are nothing more than that.

As for emulation, people buy consoles to play the games legitimately, and not to pirate them. Playing games on the console that were made for a specific console work much better than to emulate them on PC. Try to play any Wii game that needs the motion functions of the Wiimote, that isn't going to work easily.


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## zero2exe (Apr 29, 2014)

ResleyZ said:


> Not everyone has the money to build a 'decent' PC, or know what to look for.
> 
> Regarding that the Wii U is a Wii with better graphics and a tablet controller, that's the whole idea of newer consoles. Better graphics and support for newer games. *Did you expect it to fly, or even make a sandwich?*
> Nintendo at least tries to innovate the way people play. Sony and Microsoft don't really use new ways for gaming. There might be the Kinect and Playstation Move accessories, but they are nothing more than that.
> ...


Well the NES found a way (albeit prototype) to knit for you so it wouldn't be that crazy now, right? .-.
http://kotaku.com/5939210/this-long...ould-have-let-you-make-sweaters-with-your-nes

PS: Just saw this on the last page but I think it was worth bringing it up again


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## alex.rshare (Apr 29, 2014)

DSAndi said:


> Im actually wondering why Nintendo is still in buissnes.
> Dont know im totally bored to see the next Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, Zelda and so on.


 
and so on......

Smash Brothers
Metroid
Pikmin
X
W101
Starfox
F-Zero
Kirby
Paper Mario
Kid Icarus
Luigi's Mansion
Yoshi
..
..
and so on....

I'm wondering why you think that about Nintendo and don't about Microsoft
I'm totally bored to see the next Halo, Forza, Gears and so on stop.



DSAndi said:


> Also bring out old games with new graphics on the new system is lame. Sorry why buy an old game with better graphics ?


 
Old games with new graphics? Which one? I think you are referring at the Zelda Wind Waker remake. It's just ONE remake. It's the best remake ever made (it's not just a graphics remake), and it's a 10 years old game remake. Actually Sony is making a 1 year old game remake (the last of us), which I bet it's just for the graphics side.



DSAndi said:


> The Wii U seems to mee a Wii with better graphics and tablet controller and that what ppl that own it tell me too.


 
The tablet controller potentially adds a lot of brand new gameplay, especially in multiplayer. Just try a couple of D1 games (Nintendoland and Zombi U, for example)

By the way, the PS4 is just a PS3 with better graphics, isn't it?



DSAndi said:


> Do i see a reason to buy the Wii U ? nope.


 
Games.

Games that you can play only on Wii U.



DSAndi said:


> Mainly the reason i dont watch at Videogame consoles is the PC can emulate most of the old consoles pretty well


 
Yes, VERY OLD consoles.
PC can't emulate neither Xbox360 nor PS3, a 8+ years consoles.


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> No they wouldn't.
> 
> Now, if they used "NintenGo" and/or "NintendOS," well, maybe we'd have something.


NintendOeS.


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

zero2exe said:


> Well the NES found a way (albeit prototype) to knit for you so it wouldn't be that crazy now, right? .-.
> http://kotaku.com/5939210/this-long...ould-have-let-you-make-sweaters-with-your-nes
> 
> PS: Just saw this on the last page but I think it was worth bringing it up again


But that was a accessory, and not the main feature of it. There have been a ton of accessories for a lot of different consoles which all do 'weird' stuff 




alex.rshare said:


> Yes, VERY OLD consoles.
> PC can't emulate neither Xbox360 nor PS3, a 8+ years consoles.


 
Actually...


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## alex.rshare (Apr 29, 2014)

ResleyZ said:


> Actually...


 
I knew it but..... It's very very far from 100% accurate emulation (actually, according to the Faqs, it can't run any commercial game)


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> I knew it but..... It's very very far from 100% accurate emulation (actually, according to the Faqs, it can't run any commercial game)


 
There are some games which are 'playable' with about 2 frames per second, huge graphical glitches and a lot of audio errors, but it's a start. Anyway, kinda getting off-topic now


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## wiiluver135 (Apr 29, 2014)

so...Nintedoes what Sonydoes?


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## lokomelo (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> and so on......
> 
> Smash Brothers
> Metroid
> ...


 
Nintendo WAS innovative on gaming frachises, It is not anymore... They are recycling stuff from past at every single release. Their current days attepts resulted in faliure.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> and so on......
> 
> Smash Brothers
> Metroid - not announced
> ...


 

Keep living the warp pipe dream that Nintendo will bring all these unannounced and dead franchises back.

And the PC can't emulate the Xbox 360 or PS3 but can play most of the multiplats between them and at this point the consoles are so inexpensive that buying one to play the few non-PC shared games (or even games that just run better on consoles) isn't that outrageous.

The Wii U is an upgraded Wii I hear, but the Wii was vastly underpowered so the Wii U continues to be vastly underpowered as well. It's not even bringing a next gen experience outside of graphics, it's just playing catch up. Like Nintendo just got an online infrastructure roughly similar to Xbox Live and PSN. Meanwhile Xbox Live and PSN are busy adding tons of new features such as streaming through Twitch or similar services and even streaming whole games to your console.


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## popeel1 (Apr 29, 2014)

Guys lets face it, nintendo won't step outside of the electronic based products due to the fact that they have invested in so much time and money into this industry.  I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to integrate with the cellular market or the 3d printing market because those industries are very profitable.


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## alex.rshare (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Keep living the warp pipe dream that Nintendo will bring all these unannounced and dead franchises back.


 
the only unannounced titles I listed are F-Zero and Starfox (everyone knows that Metroid is in the work)

The others are announced or released on 3DS. By the way, I just listed (not all) Nintendo's IP in response to this


> Dont know im totally bored to see the next Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, Zelda and so on.


 
which is not necessarily related to Wii U....

Ah, and I forgot Fire Emblem.... 



Guild McCommunist said:


> The Wii U is an upgraded Wii I hear, but the Wii was vastly underpowered so the Wii U continues to be vastly underpowered as well. It's not even bringing a next gen experience outside of graphics, it's just playing catch up.


 
Like PS4 is an upgraded PS3. But while the Wii U has the Gamepad that can bring a next-gen and brand new experience, PS4 can only bring a next-gen graphics which is less interesting (and the PC is already a step ahead)


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## FAST6191 (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> Like PS4 is an upgraded PS3. But while the Wii U has the Gamepad that can bring a next-gen and brand new experience, PS4 can only bring a next-gen graphics which is less interesting (and the PC is already a step ahead)



....my sides.


I was all read to question the 3ds sales things but then it does seem to be reasonably comparable to the DS for the time on market, library is not half the DS one though if you do not care for Nintendo devs (it was quite possible to do that on the GBA and DS, now they all went andrios it seems, though I have no objections there).


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## EarthBound 2 (Apr 29, 2014)

check these games lists out they needs a 3d invironment now(Nintendo please stop thinking you're better than Sony,because you stole Sony's SCP Project called Play Station as SNES addon called SNES CD when your deals splited up for good)http://web.archive.org/web/20070317023021/http://www.nintendo.com/doc/nes_games.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20070325003029/http://www.nintendo.com/doc/snes_games.pdf complete saga all Nintendo Games https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/downloads/completeoldgameslist.pdf which needs to back even VC installment re-releases.Am I right?You met Nintendo terrible fate haven't you?

Playstation 4 is more powerful than modern PC,Xbox One and Wii U.Xbox One power isn't Playstation 4 do(not the power dear IGN not the same power).Everybody will miss Nintendo Power Magazine.Nintendo stop letting your Wii U an donkey work because the majority of players spends they time on FPS games(most of such of games are produced exclusives on Microsoft X1).Greetings to TechReviewUSA.


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

In other news: 

They're trying at least.


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## EarthBound 2 (Apr 29, 2014)

Let him go



Spoiler


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## elunesgrace (Apr 29, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Except that PlayStation is one of the only departments that's making Sony money right now.
> 
> I get what you're saying (and it applies quite well to Microsoft, who weren't making money on the Xbox brand until recent years, iirc), but Sony isn't the best example of what you're saying.


 

It doesn't matter if SONY isn't doing well as a company, the point is to diversify the risk.

It's like a mutual fund, you can simply have a very bad mutual fund where you diversified your risk but you ended up with all bad stocks anyways.


----------



## osaka35 (Apr 29, 2014)

DSAndi said:


> Im actually wondering why Nintendo is still in buissnes.
> Dont know im totally bored to see the next Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, Zelda and so on.
> Also bring out old games with new graphics on the new system is lame. Sorry why buy an old game with better graphics ?.


 

If you're actually curious, it's not that hard to find out why they're still in business. Their hardware sales vs cost (and other profit positives that other companies don't really have), and their quality made games are usually the most direct answers. And just because a game uses the same characters, that doesn't make them the same game. Zelda and mario games sell systems because they're fun. Nintendo changes a lot of things game to game, but tend to keep in the things people find the most fun. It's the mark of a good game developer that can do such things.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> the only unannounced titles I listed are F-Zero and Starfox (everyone knows that Metroid is in the work)


 
Sure, the "everyone knows but it's not announced" thing totally means the same as "announced and coming".



> The others are announced or released on 3DS. By the way, I just listed (not all) Nintendo's IP in response to this


 
That's not how you spell Wii U.




> which is not necessarily related to Wii U....


 
yup



> Like PS4 is an upgraded PS3. But while the Wii U has the Gamepad that can bring a next-gen and brand new experience, PS4 can only bring a next-gen graphics which is less interesting (and the PC is already a step ahead)


 
...Minus the camera, motion controls, front touchpad, game streaming, online streaming, and I dunno, a ton of other features that were introduced with it. If you need a gimmick shoved in your face to see "innovation" then you have a very narrow definition of "innovation".


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ...Minus the camera, motion controls, front touchpad, game streaming, online streaming, and I dunno, a ton of other features that were introduced with it. If you need a gimmick shoved in your face to see "innovation" then you have a very narrow definition of "innovation".


 
Playstation Eye is a camera, Dualshock 3 already had motion controls, and then there was also Playstation Move, game streaming was already done, albeit very poorly (PS1 games on PS3 to Vita).
So only the front touchpad and live online streaming are new from that list. 

I'd love to see Nintendo expand their products, but it's probably not going to work very well, at least not to attract new customers.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 29, 2014)

ResleyZ said:


> Playstation Eye is a camera, Dualshock 3 already had motion controls, and then there was also Playstation Move, game streaming was already done, albeit very poorly (PS1 games on PS3 to Vita).
> So only the front touchpad and live online streaming are new from that list.
> 
> I'd love to see Nintendo expand their products, but it's probably not going to work very well, at least not to attract new customers.


 

When I say game streaming I mean from a server to your PS4 (which has been announced via Gaikai) and also streaming your gameplay through Twitch or similar services.

Also the Playstation Eye is hardly an equivalent to the current PS4 camera. They both have very different experiences and technology.


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> When I say game streaming I mean from a server to your PS4 (which has been announced via Gaikai) and also streaming your gameplay through Twitch or similar services.
> 
> Also the Playstation Eye is hardly an equivalent to the current PS4 camera. They both have very different experiences and technology.


 
True, but I wouldn't call it 'innovation'. In this case it's merely a upgrade. Customers don't care if the technology is different, for most of the people camera = camera and streaming = streaming.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

I don't understand why people downplay the edge the PS4/XBO give over last generation system. Seriously, both offer 16 times the RAM/VRAM memory, +/- 5 times the processing power and 6 times the GPU power. The capabilities of the hardware are absolutely amazing and squeezing out _good_ graphics no longer requires tricks and tedium. Yes, the first batch of games doesn't necessarily rub the huge difference in your face, but that was the case with most generation jumps.



Spoiler









This s*it ain't even funny.


 



ResleyZ said:


> True, but I wouldn't call it 'innovation'. In this case it's merely a upgrade. Customers don't care if the technology is different, for most of the people camera = camera and streaming = streaming.


Of course, but there's _better_ cameras and _worse_ cameras, and given the choice, they will pick _better_ ones - same goes with other peripherals and features. If what you're saying was true, the mobile phone business would be stuck in the 90'ies since _"all phones make calls so there's no need to upgrade"_. Technological jumps necessitate upgrading, it's how the cookie crumbles.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 29, 2014)

ResleyZ said:


> True, but I wouldn't call it 'innovation'. In this case it's merely a upgrade. Customers don't care if the technology is different, for most of the people camera = camera and streaming = streaming.


 

But it's completely different types of streaming. Both streaming to you and streaming from you. Not just streaming from a PS3/4 to your Vita (which is still considered rather new due to how limited it was on the PS3).

By your reasoning, people would say "Well the Kinect wasn't interesting, we already had a chance with the Playstation Eye." Yet the Kinect broke records and sold rather well.

Also having a tablet for a controller is not "innovation" considering we've had tablets for how many years? And don't pull some "Well now we have it AS A CONTROLLER" argument because we've had SmartGlass and Vita connectivity before that.


----------



## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But it's completely different types of streaming. Both streaming to you and streaming from you. Not just streaming from a PS3/4 to your Vita (which is still considered rather new due to how limited it was on the PS3).
> 
> By your reasoning, people would say "Well the Kinect wasn't interesting, we already had a chance with the Playstation Eye." Yet the Kinect broke records and sold rather well.
> 
> Also having a tablet for a controller is not "innovation" considering we've had tablets for how many years? And don't pull some "Well now we have it AS A CONTROLLER" argument because we've had SmartGlass and Vita connectivity before that.


 
The reason the Kinect sold well was because of the sensors it all had, which was very interesting for developers because the hardware wasn't available then at that price.
I don't think many people actually bought the Kinect for the timeless classics like Star Wars Kinect or one of the many, many, many dance games with the same engine. 

I really like the Wii U's gamepad, it's not as heavy or bulky as I thought it would be, and it fits nicely in my hands. This is of course different for other people, but it's just fine for me. I love the ability to play my games on the gamepad alone so actually have a 'portable home console'. As far as I know the PS4 still needs a monitor or tv to enable remote play, whilst the Wii U doesn't.

Whilst I could continue to discuss stuff like this for a long time, we're kinda getting off-topic.


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## alex.rshare (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ...Minus the camera, motion controls, front touchpad, game streaming, online streaming, and I dunno, a ton of other features that were introduced with it. If you need a gimmick shoved in your face to see "innovation" then you have a very narrow definition of "innovation".


 
camera? a kinect clone?

motion controls? PS3 already had motion controls.

front touchpad? Yeah!

game streaming? A brand new gameplay!


Really I don't need anything to see innovation in Wii U. I can just play games impossible to replicate on any other system.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 29, 2014)

ResleyZ said:


> The reason the Kinect sold well was because of the sensors it all had, which was very interesting for developers because the hardware wasn't available then at that price.
> I don't think many people actually bought the Kinect for the timeless classics like Star Wars Kinect or one of the many, many, many dance games with the same engine.
> 
> I really like the Wii U's gamepad, it's not as heavy or bulky as I thought it would be, and it fits nicely in my hands. This is of course different for other people, but it's just fine for me. I love the ability to play my games on the gamepad alone so actually have a 'portable home console'. As far as I know the PS4 still needs a monitor or tv to enable remote play, whilst the Wii U doesn't.
> ...


 

The Wii U is totally portable! You just need to carry around a Wii U! ...and the controller...and the power cables...and have constant access to a power outlet. So portable guys!

Meanwhile I can stream my PS4 games to my Vita from anywhere as long as I have a good enough WiFi connection.


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The Wii U is totally portable! You just need to carry around a Wii U! ...and the controller...and the power cables...and have constant access to a power outlet. So portable guys!
> 
> Meanwhile I can stream my PS4 games to my Vita from anywhere as long as I have a good enough WiFi connection.


 
What I meant with 'portable' was that you don't need a TV or something. If I wanted to play my Wii U at school, I'd just have to plug in the Wii U and I'm done. I carry so much stuff to school, that extra couple of weight wouldn't matter to me.
And I thought you had to be on the same network for PS4 streaming?


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 29, 2014)

ResleyZ said:


> What I meant with 'portable' was that you don't need a TV or something. If I wanted to play my Wii U at school, I'd just have to plug in the Wii U and I'm done. I carry so much stuff to school, that extra couple of weight wouldn't matter to me.
> And I thought you had to be on the same network for PS4 streaming?


 

Pretty sure you can stream from your PS4 to the Vita over any two WiFi connections.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> Really I don't need anything to see innovation in Wii U. I can just play games *impossible to replicate on any other system*.


Yeah, sure. 







*#Microsoft_Smartglass #PlayStaton_Cross_Controller #Cannot_Replicate_Muh_Nin10doh*


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## ResleyZ (Apr 29, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Pretty sure you can stream from your PS4 to the Vita over any two WiFi connections.


 

I'll probably get a PS4 after some nice games gets released (KH3, FF XV and the inevitable Disgaea's) and when I get one, I'll already have a decent library thanks to my PS+. 

If it is indeed possible to stream outside your own WiFi, then that's pretty neat. Combine it with my phone's 10GB data bundle, and a VPN, and I'll be ready, even when my body isn't.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> *#Microsoft_Smartglass #PlayStaton_Cross_Controller #Cannot_Replicate_Muh_Nin10doh*



What about we kick it old school


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

Shh, FAST, shh! Muh innovation! _;O;_


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## alex.rshare (Apr 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Yeah, sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





First of all, Microsoft Smartglass is ridiculous compared to Wii U. A tablet doesn't even have physical buttons.

Second, they are not integrated and they have technical issues.

Third, no developer will ever focus the main gameplay on these technologies because they could sell the game only to people who have both systems.

Fourth, these are just a poor tentative to "artificially" replicate the Wii U experience by combining TWO systems. It's really not the same thing.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

alex.rshare said:


> First of all, Microsoft Smartglass is ridiculous compared to Wii U. A tablet doesn't even have physical buttons. Second, they are not integrated and they have technical issues. Third, no developer will ever focus the main gameplay on these technologies because they could sell the game only to people who have both systems. Fourth, these are just a poor tentative to "artificially" replicate the Wii U experience by combining TWO systems. It's really not the same thing.


You don't need physical buttons on the tablet - you have them on your controller. I don't know what technical issues you have in mind either - it's a matter of the way the developer wants to utilize the technology. No developer ever focuses using these technologies in main gameplay elements, but it's not like they do on the Wii U either, so your point is moot. As for artificially replicating the Wii U experience, using two screens for gameplay on a home console was not Nintendo's idea in the first place - Sony's done this before with the PSP, they just didn't build a controller specifically around the concept. It's not the same thing, no, but you claimed that the experience cannot be replicated on another system - clearly it can, as shown above. Thing is, nobody's barging into stores to get this sensational Wii U experience, so hey.


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## grossaffe (Apr 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You don't need physical buttons on the tablet - you have them on your controller. I don't know what technical issues you have in mind either - it's a matter of the way the developer wants to utilize the technology. No developer ever focuses using these technologies in main gameplay elements, but it's not like they do on the Wii U either, so your point is moot. As for artificially replicating the Wii U experience, using two screens for gameplay on a home console was not Nintendo's idea in the first place - Sony's done this before with the PSP, they just didn't build a controller specifically around the concept. It's not the same thing, no, but you claimed that the experience cannot be replicated on another system - clearly it can, as shown above. Thing is, nobody's barging into stores to get this sensational Wii U experience, so hey.


And Nintendo did it before Sony did with the Gameboy Advance connectivity.  While the idea is not entirely new, the scale of integration is.  There's much better data bandwidth to communicate to the external screen, which is also a touchscreen adding more interaction, and the integration of motion-tracking opens up more possibilities for this screen, and not just for motion controls like swinging a bat, but having the camera follow your motion opening up the possibilities of a greater sense of presence.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> And Nintendo did it before Sony did with the Gameboy Advance connectivity. While the idea is not entirely new, the scale of integration is. There's much better data bandwidth to communicate to the external screen, which is also a touchscreen adding more interaction, and the integration of motion-tracking opens up more possibilities for this screen, and not just for motion controls like swinging a bat, but having the camera follow your motion opening up the possibilities of a greater sense of presence.


...and Sega did it with Neo Geo-to-Dreamcast connectivity and with the VMU, it's not a matter who does what first, it's a matter who does what right. Essentially speaking the Wii U gamepad inflates the price of the Wii U for the sake of embedding functionality which is considered entirely optional _*cough cough*_ almost like the Kinect.


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## grossaffe (Apr 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> ...and Sega did it with Neo Geo-to-Dreamcast connectivity and with the VMU, it's not a matter who does what first, it's a matter who does what right. Essentially speaking the Wii U gamepad inflates the price of the Wii U for the sake of embedding functionality which is considered entirely optional _*cough cough*_ almost like the Kinect.


I'm on-board with Nintendo including it as part of the package, and as much as I love to hate on Microsoft and the Kinect, including it as part of the package is the right thing to do if you want it to catch on and garner support.  The gameboy connectivity was optional, and as a result we didn't see too many developers doing interesting things with it (although I really liked Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory's use of to monitor your sticky cameras).  The Wiimote was part of the package for the Wii and it was a resounding success.  The me-too Playstation Move was an optional peripheral and it flopped, despite all the talk about people wanting wii-like controls on more powerful hardware.  The gamepad is an important part of the Wii U that separates it from it's competition to bring unique gameplay opportunities.  If it were optional to own the gamepad, it wouldn't get much support.  If it's the choice between new, unique gameplay and moar power, I'll take the unique gameplay possibilities.

If you want to talk about inflating prices for the sake of embedding functionality, how about those resource-hungry OSes these consoles are running?  Using oct-core processors so that you can dedicate a few cores and 4GB of memory to run multiple operating systems?  The draw to game consoles for me are:
A) Optimized for *playing games*.  They should be able to perform better than a PC of equal specs because they're optimized specifically for playing games.  Now we're running three operating systems concurrently so we can, I dunno, upload videos of playing games?
B) Unique gameplay opportunities.  The Wii U certainly does that with it's gamepad.  The possibilities of asymmetrical gameplay are pretty huge with it.  Nintendo land gave us a taste, and I think there's more where that came from if developers pursue it.
C) Exclusive games.

I'd rather a console put it's money towards giving us unique gameplay opportunities and optimize it's hardware for actually playing video games than a console that puts its money towards more powerful hardware that it puts towards non-gaming overhead.

As it stands now, I can see a reason to own a Wii U and supplement it with a PC to give me the best spread of gaming opportunities.  I'll get the unique gameplay opportunities the tablet provides along with Nintendo's exclusives, and I'll get the moar power provided by PC that will play the majority of PS4/Xbone games plus It'll handle more ambitious games like Star Citizen, AND it provides it's own unique gameplay opportunities with more control options and Virtual Reality (yes, I know Sony's going me-too here, but the PS4 does not have the hardware to adequately support VR).  And of course, it also doubles as a great machine for me to do work on as a computer engineer, and all that processing power comes in handy when I'm trying to program my FPGA so it takes a matter of seconds to generate the bitstream rather than minutes.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> I'm on-board with Nintendo including it as part of the package, and as much as I love to hate on Microsoft and the Kinect, including it as part of the package is the right thing to do if you want it to catch on and garner support. The gameboy connectivity was optional, and as a result we didn't see too many developers doing interesting things with it (although I really liked Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory's use of to monitor your sticky cameras). The Wiimote was part of the package for the Wii and it was a resounding success. The me-too Playstation Move was an optional peripheral and it flopped, despite all the talk about people wanting wii-like controls on more powerful hardware. The gamepad is an important part of the Wii U that separates it from it's competition to bring unique gameplay opportunities. If it were optional to own the gamepad, it wouldn't get much support. If it's the choice between new, unique gameplay and moar power, I'll take the unique gameplay possibilities.
> 
> If you want to talk about inflating prices for the sake of embedding functionality, how about those resource-hungry OSes these consoles are running? Using oct-core processors so that you can dedicate a few cores and 4GB of memory to run multiple operating systems? The draw to game consoles for me are:
> A) Optimized for *playing games*. They should be able to perform better than a PC of equal specs because they're optimized specifically for playing games. Now we're running three operating systems concurrently so we can, I dunno, upload videos of playing games?
> ...


The OS gripe is true as far as the XBox One is concerned, seeing that the system runs a derrivative of Blade for the games, a Windows kernel for multimedia functionality and an overseer OS - I can see how this could've been simplified with one OS that does it all. On the PS4 however, the system is merely running a small distribution of FreeBSD, much like the PSVita - it's not terribly resource hungry and it does not impact the overall hardware performance to a huge extent.

I fully agree that integrating the Gamepad or the Kinect in the product instead of using it as an accessory is a good way to promote its use, but to do that, you have to have a pre-made array of titles that show the use of this new peripheral device to draw in attention. The Wii kicked off with Wii Sports in the bundle - it got people excited for the new controller because the whole game, albeit practically a tech demo, was oriented around motion controls. The Wii U had Nintendo Land, sure, but it failed to make the same impact. To promote the Gamepad or the Kinect as viable control methods both Nintendo and Microsoft needed a launch line-up that make use of them... and they did not, so the devices are hanging on thin strings and nobody's excited for them.

I agree that the touchpad gives certain gaming opportunities and I too think it can be used creatively, but facts are that it isn't being used now and feels like dead weight. This is not a DS situation where the touchpad is right under the main screen - the screen is on the controller and looking at it necessitates looking away from the TV, so the setup, although similar, is less favourable.

As for the PS4 _"not having the resources to support proper VR"_, I completely disagree - everything depends on how you program the game and how advanced geometry you choose to use. If a game will be designed with VR specifically in mind, it will be designed in a way to support it - plain and simple.


----------



## grossaffe (Apr 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The OS gripe is true as far as the XBox One is concerned, seeing that the system runs a derrivative of Blade for the games, a Windows kernel for multimedia functionality and an overseer OS - I can see how this could've been simplified with one OS that does it all. On the PS4 however, the system is merely running a small distribution of FreeBSD, much like the PSVita - it's not terribly resource hungry and it does not impact the overall hardware performance to a huge extent.


It can't be all that small if it's taking up 3.5 GBs. For comparison, the PS3's OS ate up 96 MB. Supposedly they'll try to lower the footprint in the future or something? We'll see if anything comes of that. The Xbone, on the other hand, uses up 3GBs for it's OS. I'm also curious about A) how much CPU overhead these OSes have and B) will games even be optimized to take full advantage of oct-core processors? I would imagine fewer cores of greater individual power would be better for this application, but I could be wrong and maybe this will only make PC gaming better by forcing developers to focus more on multi-core programming.



> I fully agree that integrating the Gamepad or the Kinect in the product instead of using it as an accessory is a good way to promote its use, but to do that, you have to have a pre-made array of titles that show the use of this new peripheral device to draw in attention. The Wii kicked off with Wii Sports in the bundle - it got people excited for the new controller because the whole game, albeit practically a tech demo, was oriented around motion controls. The Wii U had Nintendo Land, sure, but it failed to make the same impact. To promote the Gamepad or the Kinect as viable control methods both Nintendo and Microsoft needed a launch line-up that make use of them... and they did not, so the devices are hanging on thin strings and nobody's excited for them.


I thought Nintendo Land did a good enough job of showing off potential provided by the touchscreen. Can't speak for the Kinect as I haven't much experience with it or it's launch titles. The Gamepad could use a little help with getting _more_ software that shows it's not just a Nintendo Land device, but if it weren't bundled, you may as well consider it DOA.



> I agree that the touchpad gives certain gaming opportunities and I too think it can be used creatively, but facts are that it isn't being used now and feels like dead weight. This is not a DS situation where the touchpad is right under the main screen - the screen is on the controller and looking at it necessitates looking away from the TV, so the setup, although similar, is less favourable.


I disagree. Less favorable for certain applications that the DS does with the second screen? Certainly. But also more favorable for other applications such as asymmetric multiplayer. And the built-in motion-tracking gives you the ability to look around the world through it while the TV fulfills other purposes as a static screen. Having them decoupled has it's advantages and disadvantages, but fortunately we already have a device with the advantage of having the screens coupled in the 3DS, so the Wii U opens up the opportunities of the decoupled second screen.



> As for the PS4 _"not having the resources to support proper VR"_, I completely disagree - everything depends on how you program the game and how advanced geometry you choose to use. If a game will be designed with VR specifically in mind, it will be designed in a way to support it - plain and simple.


We'll see. If you want a real good VR experience, you need high resolution, low latency, and high refresh-rate, not to mention it has to render twice to get the stereoscopic effect. Even if it somehow manages a smooth 60 Hz without drops at 1080p with low poly counts, it's still not ideal for VR; maybe it'll be passable. Plus, I'd rather support Palmer's vision for VR than Sony's.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> It can't be all that small if it's taking up 3.5 GBs. For comparison, the PS3's OS ate up 96 MB. Supposedly they'll try to lower the footprint in the future or something? We'll see if anything comes of that. The Xbone, on the other hand, uses up 3GBs for it's OS. I'm also curious about A) how much CPU overhead these OSes have and B) will games even be optimized to take full advantage of oct-core processors? I would imagine fewer cores of greater individual power would be better for this application, but I could be wrong and maybe this will only make PC gaming better by forcing developers to focus more on multi-core programming.


That's not true, the OS of the PS4 does not use 3.5GB. 2.5GB of RAM is _reserved_ for the OS, although it's very unlikely that all this space is used at once - it's simply the maximum allocated amount of space. 4.5GB is dedicated strictly for games and the remaining 1GB of RAM is used as so-called flexible memory which can be used either for the game or for peripheral services - this memory is allocated dynamically by the OS. The reason why most of the memory is pre-allocated is very simple - so that the CPU doesn't have to waste cycles to allocate it on-the-fly - precisely what PC's do and consoles generally don't.

According to Digital Foundry, some of those 2.5GB's may actually be space reserved for functionality that's yet to be introduced, as according to earlier leaks, the system itself was only supposed to need 512MB RAM. I can see how that might be the case, it makes sense.


> I thought Nintendo Land did a good enough job of showing off potential provided by the touchscreen. Can't speak for the Kinect as I haven't much experience with it or it's launch titles. The Gamepad could use a little help with getting _more_ software that shows it's not just a Nintendo Land device, but if it weren't bundled, you may as well consider it DOA.


Nintendo Land should've been a game sold with every single Wii U bundle, both Premium and Basic. Moreover, the system should've had more games like it available from the get-go. As far as the Kinect is concerned, I can't think of a single killer app for it as of today _(we're talking Kinect 2.0)_, I think Microsoft thought that using it to control the console itself was a good enough selling point, but it clearly wasn't since most commentators online are expecting a Kinect-less SKU with great anticipation.


> I disagree. Less favorable for certain applications that the DS does with the second screen? Certainly. But also more favorable for other applications such as asymmetric multiplayer. And the built-in motion-tracking gives you the ability to look around the world through it while the TV fulfills other purposes as a static screen. Having them decoupled has it's advantages and disadvantages, but fortunately we already have a device with the advantage of having the screens coupled in the 3DS, so the Wii U opens up the opportunities of the decoupled second screen.


I agree, it definitely improves split screen style gameplay, but you don't always play split screen - we're talking about improving the single player experience, and for that you have to look away from the main screen to look at the gamepad unless you play holding the gamepad up _(and obstructing the TV while at it)_. Again, the setup is interesting and it's good for maps, inventories, GUI's of all sorts etc, but it's less than ideal for obvious reasons. It opens a lot of new opportunities, every new peripheral does, but Nintendo failed at the challenge of convincing the public that it's indispensible which is the whole point.


> We'll see. If you want a real good VR experience, you need high resolution, low latency, and high refresh-rate, not to mention it has to render twice to get the stereoscopic effect. Even if it somehow manages a smooth 60 Hz without drops at 1080p with low poly counts, it's still not ideal for VR; maybe it'll be passable. Plus, I'd rather support Palmer's vision for VR than Sony's.


I agree, we'll see. Here's for hoping that Sony flicks their magic wand and does something exciting with Morpheus, although personally I'm not a huge VR enthusiast.


----------



## osirisjem (Apr 30, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> B) Unique gameplay opportunities. The Wii U certainly does that with it's gamepad. *The possibilities of asymmetrical gameplay are pretty huge* with it. Nintendo land gave us a taste, and I think there's more where that came from if developers pursue it.




asymmetrical gameplay ?
I think you have been drinking too much Nintendo Kool Aid.

Feel free to elaborate how NintendoLand uses the gamepad effectively.

Another reason developers don't embrace the GamePad ... is ... why should they make 2 games (1 for console, 1 for Gamepad) for the price of 1 game.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 30, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> asymmetrical gameplay ?
> I think you have been drinking too much Nintendo Kool Aid.



The concept of a "Symmetric game" is a fairly important one in game theory, however it certainly does not require* or possibly even terribly benefit from a second hidden screen (that could be the concept of perfect information that comes into play there)·

*a driving game where we get to pick cars with a different amount of speed or acceleration for one (give or take how you might wish to perceive the game's starting point).

Now I have certainly not seen anything that would properly justify the pad's existence in this regard but it is not a complete marketing term, indeed it is a classic example of the "pick a science term and abuse it" strategy.


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't understand why people downplay the edge the PS4/XBO give over last generation system. Seriously, both offer 16 times the RAM/VRAM memory, +/- 5 times the processing power and 6 times the GPU power. The capabilities of the hardware are absolutely amazing and squeezing out _good_ graphics no longer requires tricks and tedium. Yes, the first batch of games doesn't necessarily rub the huge difference in your face, but that was the case with most generation jumps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think your avatar text suits this discussion quite nicely.


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## grossaffe (Apr 30, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> asymmetrical gameplay ?
> I think you have been drinking too much Nintendo Kool Aid.
> 
> Feel free to elaborate how NintendoLand uses the gamepad effectively.


There are multiple instances of asymmetric gameplay effectively using the gamepad in Nintendo Land.  Luigi's Mansion, for example, where the user with the gamepad can see everything while the other players cannot see the ghost on the big TV.  It makes playing the two roles very different and something you can't do if everyone is on the same screen.  There's Chase Mii where the player with the gamepad has a map of every other player's location so he can plan his route to try to avoid them better while the players on the screen only have their own limited view and must communicate and coordinate to find the gamepad player.  This was experimented with back on the gamecube with the GBA connectivity in the game Pacman Vs. where one player plays as pacman on the GBA and sees the whole map and the ghosts' locations, while the ghosts use the TV and only have a limited view from their own location.  Don't see how this is such a hard concept to understand.



Foxi4 said:


> I agree, it definitely improves split screen style gameplay, but you don't always play split screen - we're talking about improving the single player experience, and for that you have to look away from the main screen to look at the gamepad unless you play holding the gamepad up _(and obstructing the TV while at it)_.
> Again, the setup is interesting and it's good for maps, inventories, GUI's of all sorts etc, but it's less than ideal for obvious reasons. It opens a lot of new opportunities, every new peripheral does, but Nintendo failed at the challenge of convincing the public that it's indispensible which is the whole point.


Again, it depends on how you plan on using it.  Zombi U, I think, had some good ideas in how to exploit the fact that you have to take your eyes off of the TV to go through your inventory in real-time whilst a zombie could be sneaking up on you, creating a sense of tension and requiring you to look over your shoulder, if you will.  I will agree that Nintendo could have done a better job of showing off more ways to use it for single-player purposes, though, and that may be causing some of the trouble.  The other problem seems to be that developers have this odd idea that unless they make use of the gamepad's second screen, there's no point in having a game on the Wii U. 



> I agree, we'll see. Here's for hoping that Sony flicks their magic wand and does something exciting with Morpheus, although personally I'm not a huge VR enthusiast.


 
Well... I'll disagree here, but for somewhat selfish purposes.  I want to see Palmer on top of the VR world.  The only reason Sony might have a half-decent VR HMD in the first place is because he showed them his prototype before he started Oculus.  I'd rather see the true innovator win out over the copycat.


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## CompassNorth (Apr 30, 2014)

Pick up your Nitendo™ Apology Cards at your local store!


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## Joe88 (Apr 30, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> Well... I'll disagree here, but for somewhat selfish purposes. I want to see Palmer on top of the VR world. The only reason Sony might have a half-decent VR HMD in the first place is because he showed them his prototype before he started Oculus. I'd rather see the true innovator win out over the copycat.


Copycat?
I hate to tell you but sony has been releasing HMD's (Glasstron) as well as experimenting with VR add on sensors for the HMD's since palmer was just 5 years (probably even before he was born depending on the r&d cycle)


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## grossaffe (Apr 30, 2014)

Joe88 said:


> Copycat?
> I hate to tell you but sony has been releasing HMD's (Glasstron) as well as experimenting with VR add on sensors for the HMD's since palmer was just 5 years (probably even before he was born depending on the r&d cycle)


Yes, I know Sony's been doing VR, but it was expensive and nowhere near the quality of the Oculus Rift.  So despite them experimenting with VR since Palmer was 5, Palmer still came in and bested them.  You didn't see Sony touting their amazing VR before the Oculus Rift with their HMZ-T1, but now suddenly they've made giant advancements after getting a look at the prototype Rift?  Are you going to argue that if Palmer never entered the scene with his device and he never showed it to Sony that Sony would still be attempting to bring VR to the PS4?


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## Pitou (Apr 30, 2014)

I just hope they won't go back to this! Loll! 

I still have one at home.


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## DSAndi (Apr 30, 2014)

Hmm late reply 




ResleyZ said:


> Not everyone has the money to build a 'decent' PC, or know what to look for.
> 
> As for emulation, people buy consoles to play the games legitimately, and not to pirate them. Playing games on the console that were made for a specific console work much better than to emulate them on PC. Try to play any Wii game that needs the motion functions of the Wiimote, that isn't going to work easily.


 
You dont need a decent PC to play games. You need a decent PC if u want the highest resolutions, with all extra stuff on. I can play most games that are 1-2 years old just fine with a 4 year old PC 3Ghz, 2Gb Ram, Gigabyte Nvidia GTX460 OC. Even if u buy a new moderate PC with mid grade grafics card u will be able to play all games. Even i can with my old sys.

Emulation is not using pirated software to play games in general. I have a libery of old consoles and games and i can also often even use the original discs to play otherwise i can rip my games ( from discs or carts ) to emulate them.


alex.rshare said:


> PC can't emulate neither Xbox360 nor PS3, a 8+ years consoles.


 
Why emulate em when the games come out for PC aswell ? The few exclusive titels i dont really need.

As i said i dont want to play a new super mario, Zelda and that stuff anymore. If that is ur taste and u like it good for u.
The new games are a lot of fun i bet, but i just cant see em anymore.

Oh as for Sony and Microstoft dont know and dont care for em either.
I will only start buying consoles again if there are no games comming out for PC.
Otherwise im just fine buying Assassins Creed 2 & Brotherhood for 2 Euros and Relevations and 3 for just 7-9 Euro. Batman Arkham asylum & City (booth GOTJ Edition) for 10 € and serveral other games.

With the few time i have to play games i will be fine for the next 15 years with cheap but great games and not state of the art PC.

If your an hardcore player with lots of time, then u need mostly all 3 consoles and a PC, but if your casual a PC is just fine and can do a lot more things then only play games.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 30, 2014)

DSAndi said:


> If your an hardcore player with lots of time, then u need mostly all 3 consoles and a PC/quote]


no you just need a pc and wiiu.
wiiu: for nintendo games
pc: for everything else


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## Joe88 (Apr 30, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> Yes, I know Sony's been doing VR, but it was expensive and nowhere near the quality of the Oculus Rift. So despite them experimenting with VR since Palmer was 5, Palmer still came in and bested them. You didn't see Sony touting their amazing VR before the Oculus Rift with their HMZ-T1, but now suddenly they've made giant advancements after getting a look at the prototype Rift? Are you going to argue that if Palmer never entered the scene with his device and he never showed it to Sony that Sony would still be attempting to bring VR to the PS4?


It comes down to market interest, back in the day those VR units (and not just from sony, there were a few other companies as well that had VR HMD's) were very expensive, had very few supported applications, and the general public just didnt care for them back then, they were bleeding more money then it was taking in so they axed it, sony did continue making HMD's (still very expensive)
but now market interest has shifted to VR, Palmer did help spark this interest with his device
but regardless if a company already had HD+3D HMD's out why would they pay some middleman to buy his device when they can just add gryoscopic sensors to the existing product? they already have experience in the field
the whole VR thing it just another fad that will wear out in time


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## grossaffe (Apr 30, 2014)

Joe88 said:


> It comes down to market interest, back in the day those VR units (and not just from sony, there were a few other companies as well that had VR HMD's) were very expensive, had very few supported applications, and the general public just didnt care for them back then, they were bleeding more money then it was taking in so they axed it, sony did continue making HMD's (still very expensive)
> but now market interest has shifted to VR, Palmer did help spark this interest with his device
> but regardless if a company already had HD+3D HMD's out why would they pay some middleman to buy his device when they can just add gryoscopic sensors to the existing product? they already have experience in the field
> the whole VR thing it just another fad that will wear out in time


It's not just head-tracking that the rift brought in.  He brought in a way to vastly increase field of view.  Sony's HMZ-T1 only had a horizontal FOV of 45 degrees, compared to his prototype with a 90 degree horizontal FOV.  The reason why there wasn't user interest in VR was because the VR on the market was neither adequate nor affordable.  The Oculus Rift greatly improved the experience at a fraction of the cost.  If he didn't do that, Sony's HMDs would be just as static and expensive as they'd been as they wouldn't have a design to copy.

I mean, heck, Blockbuster was in the movie-rental business long before Netflix came around, but then Netflix came in and revolutionized the industry.  Blockbuster tried to me-too Netflix's business model, but where's blockbuster now?


----------



## dario14 (Apr 30, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> Dude the mobile phone market is perfect for Nintendo. Every mobile analyst wants Nintendo to release games to the mobile stores. If Nintendo made their own phone and made mobile games and rereleased oldschool roms to be used only with their proprietary phone, then that could be a goldmine. I don't see why they wouldn't enter the "ultra competitive phone market" as their moto has always been about fun at an affordable cost, they could be the anti-apple. While their phones would be proprietary like Apple and have its own exclusive and vast game market, it would come at an incredibly affordable price as opposed to Apple's ridiculously expensive prices.



I would totally buy a Nintendo smartphone that played 3ds games


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## Steena (Apr 30, 2014)

Nintendo is not competent enough on the technical department to make a smartphone that can in any way compete with the current ones on the market. It probably cannot even make a smartphone that is 1/10th as good as them.

Their technology has a track record of being subpar for a juggernaut electronics company, from the online systems, to the netcode of their games, to their terrible WiiU devkits that were handed out to third parties, or the piss-poor performance of the tablet-controller. They get a free pass for the inaccurate motion controls because they were the first ones to commercialize it globally, but yeah even that was horrible, quality-wise.

It's a mixture of having a mentality that is stuck 10-20 years in the past and being a japanese company (that has generally weaker domestic electronics prowess nowadays) to compete in an environment that thrives on modernity to succeed. It would result in a massive loss of money as being entirely new to the field they'd need to invest a lot on R&D and probably marketing, and it'd fail to keep up with the competition by a long shot regardless.

I personally believe that, for the next generation, Nintendo would dominate if they made a super smartphone that played proprietary portable games and had TV connectivity to play home console games, all in one device (perhaps with the addition of a performance boosting box, depending on where technology is at in 8-10 years). The problem is that they just cannot pull it off. Maybe if they merged with another company that is big on smartphones, that'd be the way. But I don't see them merging with another company for a long time either, so ehh.

Nintendo is the "nobody knows what the fuck is gonna happen next" company. Their unorthodox way of business is both their strength and weakness. So who knows.


----------



## gamefan5 (Apr 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Shh, FAST, shh! Muh innovation! _;O;_


 
And once again, Foxi4 succeeds at making sarcastic, witty, unbiased comments. You sir, have made my day. LOL


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## WhiteMaze (Apr 30, 2014)

Oh Nintendo....

Your beloved WiiU sinks like a ship, your 3DS sales are going down and your Youtube hate still stands tall.

What are we to make of you?

In all honesty, I still feel like Nintendo is the same god damn annoying, change-phobiac, old guy that goes in a bar and asks for "the usual", company it has ever been.

I do have to agree that they do know how to innovate and be original. But that's pretty much it. That's where the good stuff ends.
Any person with half a brain can see, this is a "cry for help", or in other terms, a "lets expand to other markets since our videogames don't pay for our cars anymore".

I mean, I sympathize that any company has the right to expand their horizons, enter new markets, and begin producing other things in order to secure a bigger share and a bigger variety of products. Any good company will expand and grow that way.

However, what Nintendo has in mind, will determine what the outcome will be.

Sure, Nintendo started out as a god damn card company. True. But here's the kicker: *They were a nobody.*

Compared to what Nintendo is today, due to its investment in the videogame industry, Nintendo was a microbe. Today they are a multi-billion dollar name on their own, known around the globe, and with a solid reputation.

No one was going to cry if "Nintendo the card maker" went out of business. But that can't be said for the Nintendo of today. Over the years it has accumulated millions of fans and people who appreciate their work. And it is all due to one thing: *Gaming*.

Now as I said before, Nintendo has every right to expand to other markets. My point is this: if Nintendo plans to "expand" to other markets, it has to be carefully done. I hope we don't get the news that Nitendo will now start making slippers and shower curtins.

Why? Because the money to be made on videogames is still very much there. There is just one reason, a *SINGLE* reason why both Nintendo and Sony's handhelds are beginning to fail miserably. What's that reason?

Because this is 2014, and something happened a few years ago called: *The Smartphone. Smartphones and Tablets.*



Steena said:


> Nintendo is not competent enough on the technical department to make a smartphone that can in any way compete with the current ones on the market. It probably cannot even make a smartphone that is 1/10th as good as them.
> 
> Their technology has a track record of being subpar for a juggernaut electronics company, from the online systems, to the netcode of their games, to their terrible WiiU devkits that were handed out to third parties, or the piss-poor performance of the tablet-controller. They get a free pass for the inaccurate motion controls because they were the first ones to commercialize it globally, but yeah even that was horrible, quality-wise.
> 
> ...


 
Very much agreed.

The only problem here, is simply that Nintendo is the most stubborn, screaming annoying child of a company. They freaking *REFUSE* to get with the times. Their internet enabled games suck. Their internet platforms suck. Their developing kits suck. ANYTHING remotely related to internet and connectivity or social media sucks. Its ridiculous.

*Meet Nintendo*: the god damn Samurai company who shall keep their Katana's long after the AK-47 shows up.

Fine by me Nintendo. Just don't expect your "Honor" and your "Katana" and your "same old traditions" to save you from a bullet.

Technology happens Nintendo. And sometimes a major technological advancement, strikes you right on your belly, rendering your devices obsolete.

You either embrace that technology and get in the market like the rest of them, or you sink.

You want to save yourself Nintendo? Grow up.

For a company with your reputation to "not include cut-scenes" *because of Youtube*, is the biggest joke and embarrassment I have ever heard in my entire life.

Sony is still failing miserably with the Vita too. But at least they are entering the tablet and smarphone market. Because Sony is *no* idiot.

Even freaking Microsoft pulled back on their handheld idea when the first Smartphones and Tablets began to arise. Because they knew what it meant. They knew that if there was to be a handheld market, it wouldn't be on a platform that *ONLY* runs games. It would be on a platform that did everything, from making phone calls, to browsing the internet.

Get a hold of yourself Nintendo. And may the gods help you, because I really like your games.


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## osirisjem (May 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Oh Nintendo....
> 
> Your beloved WiiU sinks like a ship, your 3DS sales are going down and your Youtube hate still stands tall.
> 
> Get a hold of yourself Nintendo. And may the gods help you, because I really like your games.


 

That YouTube fiasco still boggles my mind.
To pick on your fans for making videos of your games ?  /facepalm

I guess when the innovation dries up, you bully kids on YouTube about your IP.

And you decide to do this when your console is a failure and you need every bit of eyeball time you can get on your potential customers ?  

What a fail.


----------



## duffmmann (May 1, 2014)

Steena said:


> Nintendo is not competent enough on the technical department to make a smartphone that can in any way compete with the current ones on the market. It probably cannot even make a smartphone that is 1/10th as good as them.
> 
> Their technology has a track record of being subpar for a juggernaut electronics company, from the online systems, to the netcode of their games, to their terrible WiiU devkits that were handed out to third parties, or the piss-poor performance of the tablet-controller. They get a free pass for the inaccurate motion controls because they were the first ones to commercialize it globally, but yeah even that was horrible, quality-wise.
> 
> ...


 

Nintendo is not opposed to working with other companies to make such a thing.  Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago, don't see why they couldn't reach out to a company that knows what they're doing in the smart phone department and partner up.  I don't personally want to see a Nintendo smartphone, but realistically, I think eventually it will be inevitable.



osirisjem said:


> That YouTube fiasco still boggles my mind.
> To pick on your fans for making videos of your games ? /facepalm
> 
> I guess when the innovation dries up, you bully kids on YouTube about your IP.
> ...


 

And yet now Nintendo will allow you to upload your Mario Kart 8 races straight to youtube from within the game... Nintendo's relationship with youtube is odd to say the least.


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## WhiteMaze (May 1, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> And yet now Nintendo will allow you to upload your Mario Kart 8 races straight to youtube from within the game... Nintendo's relationship with youtube is odd to say the least.


 
Really? Wow....

A baby step, but maybe, just maybe Nintendo is pulling its head out of its ass.


----------



## Dork (May 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> your 3DS sales are going down


 
Except that isn't true.



WhiteMaze said:


> Why? Because the money to be made on videogames is still very much there. There is just one reason, a *SINGLE* reason why both Nintendo and Sony's handhelds are beginning to fail miserably. What's that reason?
> 
> Because this is 2014, and something happened a few years ago called: *The Smartphone. Smartphones and Tablets.*


 
That would be true, except for the fact that both the 3DS and the Vita are both doing considerably and consistently well. http://www.m-create.com/ranking/

Your entire rant you got there is based on falsehood and the false assertion that current mobile gaming is going to "replace" traditional handhelds. Stop.


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## codezer0 (May 1, 2014)

Iwata confirmed for Nintendo's "Krazy Ken".


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## WhiteMaze (May 1, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> Except that isn't true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Lets just put things this way:

How many people in your daily routine do you know, that own a 3DS system, or even a Ps Vita for that matter?

Now how many people in your daily routine do you know, that own a Smartphone or a Tablet?

I know quite a few that have a 3DS, or a Ps Vita. Hell, I know 2 or 3 individuals that own both.

But how about Smartphones / Tablets?

Well, from my mother to my hated enemy, they all have at least one of them. A good 90% if not more, of the people I know, have these devices. And of course, with Android / iOS, come gaming capabilities. Which is where they get 99% of their gaming these days.

I honestly do not see the point of that link, as sales that go inside Japan only, are of no concern to this matter, as the Japanese are the ones who invented the 3DS / Ps Vita. Old-school Nintendo and Sony's handheld gaming will never die there, as well as their PS4's and WiiU's.

What concerns me, is the sales OUTSIDE of Japan.

3DS has around 30 million units sold currently, which is not bad, but then again, is by no means the same amount of profit Nintendo made with its predecessor (155 million units sold), or even with the GBA.

So forgive me if I have offended you kind sir. However, I prefer not to close my eyes to the "sad" truth.

I believe this is enough to defend my argument, but should you not be pleased, then I also present you with one final point of view:

Smartphones and Tablets can be several times the price of a general Ps Vita or 3DS. Yet, people seem to buy them, regardless of that fact. Anyone who does not take that into consideration, is seriously underestimating the demand for Android / iOS based devices.


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## dario14 (May 1, 2014)

Maybe Nintendo could collaborate with a smartphone company the way Google does. LG makes the Nexus 5. It's still Google's phone and brand though.


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## Steena (May 1, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> Nintendo is not opposed to working with other companies to make such a thing. Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago,


How many years ago was that? 25? It's also worth noting that the conflict between the two companies during their partnership has led sony to make their thing on their own and they proceeded to destroy the N64 shortly after. Perhaps nintendo got overly defensive since that happened.



WhiteMaze said:


> Really? Wow....
> 
> A baby step, but maybe, just maybe Nintendo is pulling its head out of its ass.


The root of the problem is, and always been, that Nintendo wants to force their own quality control, even if that means limiting content. You can only upload races through the WiiU, so you cannot add anything else but the replay itself. In a way, that is not really "user content".


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## FAST6191 (May 1, 2014)

Apologies if I missed it but I suppose someone had better do the "we spent decades expanding the waistlines of our fans, now we wish to expand our horizons" joke.


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## Bladexdsl (May 1, 2014)

dario14 said:


> Maybe Nintendo could collaborate with a smartphone company the way Google does.


 
just what we need the eshop full of pay to play games....


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## T Link7 (May 1, 2014)

I get dèjá vu every time I read a Nintendo-related thread on this website... <.<

On-topic: perhaps they were talking about this among other things? I personally think this is a good idea, because when I was young, me and my friends would've died to get our hands on Nintendo toys  So let's hope things haven't change too much... Even if children these days aren't that interested, I'm sure there'll be people collecting the stuff.


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## WhiteMaze (May 1, 2014)

Bladexdsl said:


> just what we need the eshop full of pay to play games....


 
Oh no good sir.

What we need is things like the eShop gone.


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## Dork (May 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Lets just put things this way:
> 
> How many people in your daily routine do you know, that own a 3DS system, or even a Ps Vita for that matter?
> 
> ...


 
I don't get where you are going here. If I see more people with a smartphone than a 3DS than this is pure evidence that mobile directly impacts handhelds?

All you have really been saying here is that mobile devices do extremely well and everyone has one. However, I have yet to see any actual evidence or stats that help your point that handhelds are directly suffering because of mobile device success.

You also have to consider that these devices, viewed as gaming devices, offer completely different games and experiences, and pander to different audiences. Plus the success of mobile can also be contributed to other factors such as being a "do everything" device, but that's at the expense of being mediocre for games.



WhiteMaze said:


> I honestly do not see the point of that link, as sales that go inside Japan only, are of no concern to this matter, as the Japanese are the ones who invented the 3DS / Ps Vita. Old-school Nintendo and Sony's handheld gaming will never die there, as well as their PS4's and WiiU's.


 
Well, Nintendo and Sony are Japanese companies, so when you talk about the overall success they have in the handheld market, it kind of does matter. Also, the mobile "fad" has swept Japan just as it had with western territories, so I don't know where you're going with that.

If you want western sales data so much, the only thing I can provide you is a VGChartz spreadsheet but they pull sales data out of their ass. These are points you are trying to make so it's up to you to provide something other than anecdotal evidence.


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## Bladexdsl (May 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> What we need is things like the eShop gone.


 
and what exactly would that accomplish except make things worse?!


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## shadow1w2 (May 1, 2014)

Nintendo has gone a bit crazy haven't they?
They just need to focus on the gaming aspect like they used to and they'd be fine.
A Nintendo brand Android device though? Sure I'd go for that but again Nintendo and gaming fit together as a household brand.
Anything else is not going to sell well especially with their bad track record in anything but gaming.
Without gaming I don't think their consumers will be very forgiving.

But hey, they want to branch out a bit that's fine really.
Just well, hard to imagine what they'd branch out to.

Maybe heart monitors?
They've been trying to do that for awhile now.
Heh ya, medical equipment manufacturing maybe?
Heart monitor with Mario running along and dying when the patient does?.....
Okay that's a ton of wrong right there.

Do what you want Nintendo but don't throw away what you have.
Its not all over if you just try a little harder.

Eh, maybe Smash Bros will be a console seller and they'll just forget this "non gaming" nonsense.

Still can't think of anything they might do.
Toasters maybe? Only Sony ever did that and gaming. xD


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## Bladexdsl (May 1, 2014)

shadow1w2 said:


> Still can't think of anything they might do.
> Toasters maybe?


 
already been done


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## duffmmann (May 1, 2014)

Steena said:


> How many years ago was that? 25? It's also worth noting that the conflict between the two companies during their partnership has led sony to make their thing on their own and they proceeded to destroy the N64 shortly after. Perhaps nintendo got overly defensive since that happened.


 

I'm not disagreeing on that aspect.  But as you pointed out that was years ago.  If Nintendo reached out to the right company, and laid out the rules through a contract and whatnot from the getgo, it could ensure that they wouldn't get fucked over with the creation of such a smartphone.


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## dario14 (May 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Oh no good sir.
> 
> What we need is things like the eShop gone.


 

I don't mean to get further off topic here, so I apologize if that happens. First of all, what's wrong with the eShop? I don't own a 3ds so I'm not familiar with it.
Maybe this belongs in a new/different thread, but I'm still interested in the idea of a Nintendo smartphone. Could it compete with current phones on the market? No, but there might be a niche for people who care more about games than bleeding edge specs. I not an engineer, but how hard would it be to slim down a 3ds and add 3/4G data, voice and text capability and sell it for $350-400? I'd buy one.

What keeps me from buying a 3ds (or a dingoo/jvx) is that I don't want to carry more than one device in my pocket. Some people think that Nintendo should follow Sega and produce games for other platforms including iOS and Android. I think this would be a mistake, but the truth is that whether or not Nintendo likes it, scores of people are already playing their games on Android phones for free anyways. My $200 Moto G runs Mupen64plus AE really well. DS emulation is decent nowadays and Dolphin for Android is getting better and better. It's only a matter of time before we can play Wind Waker flawlessly on a Nexus 6 or 7, and probably with hires textures. Still even good emulation can be janky and requires lsome tinkering to run well (and then you still need to strap a ps3 controller or something to your phone). I still do it but sometimes I'd rather just fire up a game without worrying about framerates and the app crashing, and use well-designed integrated controls. My point is, maybe there are more people like me that Nintendo can go after and sell 3ds phones to, meanwhile protecting their IP. This market exists but it is being served by the Chinese with products like the JXD5800 (3G and makes calls). Nintendo could kick ass here with their own phone. Until that happens, their sales will continue to diminish while more and more people are playing Ocarina of Time on a Nexus or Chinese device.

JXD5800 here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2JH1BV1676


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## Haloman800 (May 1, 2014)

avran89 said:


> Nintendo was originally a consumer electronics company in the past


 

Nintendo originally offered hanafuda cards, love hotels and taxi cabs..


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## shadow1w2 (May 1, 2014)

I stand corrected. The future is now! lol



Bladexdsl said:


> already been done


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## XDel (May 2, 2014)

Looks like there is a lot of this going on all of a sudden. Games releasing with movies, books, sound tracks, TV shows, cloths, and on and on and on.

What's new? It's marketing plain and simple. All one can hope for is that they trust their IPs in imaginative and talented hands...

...unlike the curse we were plagued with in their 80's venture into the world of Saturn Day morning cartoons.


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## osirisjem (May 2, 2014)

ieatpixels said:


> well this is nothing that appeals to me.
> it will all be *vitality sensors* and pedometers.
> 
> Waste of resources IMO.


 
Interesting prediction.

Reviving the old sensors.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/05/nintendo-wii-vitality-sensor-dead/
which they canned cuz it only worked 90% of the time, not 100%.




It probably won't require a WiiMote.

Regardless of what it is .... I'll give it an apriori failure estimation at 90%.
Like I said earlier, I thought it was mostly a distraction technique. 
To hope investors stay with Ninty stock because they "are diversifying". 

Hard to say how many more Hardware failures Nintendo can go through.

They should probably get out of all hardware ventures - other than a 3DS successor.

I cant see them making another home console.

Even if they wanted to .... times have changed Nintendo can't do it alone. 
3rd party developers arent interested in them making a Home Console.


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## XDel (May 2, 2014)

Here is the thing though, there are a lot of living room developers out there that would love to be able to market their creations, but can not afford the licensing costs and so forth to get their material released on the Wii U, 3DS or what have you, on their low salary jobs. Only the already wealthy can succeed in that market for the most part, people born into wealth, or those with nice paying jobs.

 Besides, unbalanced contracts, and high licensing costs are part of what drives the home brew and hacking community. There are developers all over the place, especially in the realm of computers, that are churning out ports, and original creations, both free and commercial, merely because of passion. Consoles would never get hacked if there wasn't a passion to develop home brew on it. And just because one able hacker has no interest in Wii U development, it doesn't mean another won't.

 There is a lot of opportunity development wise between the 3DS and Wii U. So much that could be done, and so much innovation at that. If I could purchase the right to use the Crytek engine or what have you, to develop my own creations for the Wii U and sell them on their store at a rate I could afford (I currently earn an all time low of about $11,000 a year not counting what I make on the side doing PC work & such), then I would be in 7th heaven. Alas I'd be able to take the time to create to my heart's content, and possibly put bread on my table should my heart have the ability to produce enjoyable games, story lines, and so forth.

 It's a dog eat dog world governed by money, power, influence, control, and well generally the 7 deadly sins. It would be very nice to see at least one console company come along and provide a way for everyone (within reason, gotta keep the store clean) to have an opportunity on their hardware.

 To dream.


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## osirisjem (May 2, 2014)

XDel said:


> To dream.




*Nintendo Co., Ltd (ADR)*​(OTCMKTS:NTDOY)​​​Just cares about making money. [ninty]​​​At some level, the only reason NTDOY exists is to make money.





And they arent doing so well.


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## WhiteMaze (May 2, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> I don't get where you are going here. If I see more people with a smartphone than a 3DS than this is pure evidence that mobile directly impacts handhelds?
> 
> All you have really been saying here is that mobile devices do extremely well and everyone has one. However, I have yet to see any actual evidence or stats that help your point that handhelds are directly suffering because of mobile device success.
> 
> ...


 
You have your opinion, I have mine.

If you don't believe the mobile market has been and will eventually consume the handheld market, that is your opinion.

I do believe it, and we see evidence of it everywhere. You talk about Japan. Well of course, handheld is still doing well in Japan. The gaming industry will always thrive in Japan, because it was born from it. The Japanese would buy 3DS's and Ps Vita's even after they would be obsolete, if it meant maintaining the country's handheld gaming legacy.

Basically you're saying that Spaghetti is doing well in Italy, therefore, it is doing well worldwide. Which is a very flawed and wrong assumption.

And then you talk about the "quality" of the games being mediocre on mobile devices. Well, yes to some extent that is quite true. Yet, the mobile gaming industry is thriving.

Because the problem here, is not that the quality is not as good as its handheld counterpart. The problem here, is that you need to buy *ANOTHER* device just for gaming alone, regardless of quality, which casual gamers will not do if they already have a gaming option on their everyday device.

And like it or not, the gaming industry doesn't thrive on Hardcore gamers alone. It needs the casual gamers. Why was the Wii so successfull? It sure as well wasn't because it had a lot of quality games...

Unfortunately for both you and me, the Wii thrived on the crappy living room bowling and ping pong games that the Wii offered. Not on Zelda Skysword or Super Smash Bros Brawl.

And so will the mobile industry.

Unless companies like Nintendo and Sony introduce new things, and enter the new Android and iOS markets, they will never regain the handheld market outside Japan. The handheld market is slowly becoming the mobile market.

Clearly you don't like that. Neither do I. A lot of people don't actually. But that doesn't mean I don't see it. And that doesn't mean I won't admit it.

*EDIT:* Not my words:



dario14 said:


> What keeps me from buying a 3ds (or a dingoo/jvx) is that I don't want to carry more than one device in my pocket.


 
Just a confirmation of what I just told you Dark S.


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## Dork (May 2, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> If you don't believe the mobile market has been and will eventually consume the handheld market, that is your opinion.


Well, for some reason you refuse to provide any evidence for you claims. In fact you use a single GBAtemp post as confirmation for your whole thing, which again is just an anecdotal.

As far as I'm concerned this isn't a matter of opinions. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but it won't change the facts.


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## WhiteMaze (May 2, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> Well, for some reason you refuse to provide any evidence for you claims. In fact you use a single GBAtemp post as confirmation for your whole thing, which again is just an anecdotal.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned this isn't a matter of opinions. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but it won't change the facts.


 
Well, it was nice discussing with you sir, but I can see along with the insults, that this conversation isn't going anywhere.

Good day.


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## Dork (May 2, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Well, it was nice discussing with you sir, but I can see along with the insults, that this conversation isn't going anywhere.
> 
> Good day.


Where did I insult you?


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## WhiteMaze (May 2, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> Where did I insult you?


 
Well maybe not directly, but taking into account the aggressiveness with which you have been responding to my posts along with calling my arguments "anecdotal", I don't believe this is the most polite of conversations.

In any case, I really do hope your right. After all, I'm a gamer myself.

But what I have been seeing these past few years is not the bright future you seem to say that the handheld market has.

If anything, it seems to be "reaching out" to less and less people...

Long were the days where everyone knew what a GameBoy Advance is. Nowadays you speak of a Nintendo 3DS to your friends, and they respond with a confused face 

A shame really.


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## KingVamp (May 2, 2014)

Wonder if that handheld/phone is actually possible now?


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## xxNathanxx (May 2, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Basically you're saying that Spaghetti is doing well in Italy, therefore, it is doing well worldwide. Which is a very flawed and wrong assumption.


I'm pretty sure spaghetti is still going strong worldwide.

Here's some suggested reading: http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9


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## WhiteMaze (May 2, 2014)

xxNathanxx said:


> I'm pretty sure spaghetti is still going strong worldwide.
> 
> Here's some suggested reading: http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9



We'll yes my friend it is doing strong. So is pizza.

My point was that you shouldn't consider a product a worldwide success if it only thrives in its home country.

The comic is nice though, I am an artist myself!


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## Veho (May 2, 2014)

xxNathanxx said:


> I'm pretty sure spaghetti is still going strong worldwide.


Bad example. Balut would be a better one.


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## WhiteMaze (May 2, 2014)

Veho said:


> Bad example. Balut would be a better one.


 
Indeed it is.

I actually had to google that.


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## Yil (May 4, 2014)

Just like Sega years ago, but much worse. 
I think I've heard of this months ago.


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## osirisjem (May 4, 2014)

Will Mario Kart 8 be released on the Quality of Life device ?
Anyone know ?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 4, 2014)

duffmmann said:


> Nintendo is not opposed to working with other companies to make such a thing. Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago, don't see why they couldn't reach out to a company that knows what they're doing in the smart phone department and partner up. I don't personally want to see a Nintendo smartphone, but realistically, I think eventually it will be inevitable.


 

"Nintendo is not opposed to working with other companies to make such a thing. Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago"

"Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago"

"worked with Sony ages ago"

"ages ago"

Sure.


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## FAST6191 (May 4, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> Will Mario Kart 8 be released on the Quality of Life device ?
> Anyone know ?



Would that be a great idea? I mean http://xkcd.com/290/ says most of it, I guess you could do it if you felt your user needed to have an increased heart rate.


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## osirisjem (May 4, 2014)

***king Blue shells ! 
LOL


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## T Link7 (May 4, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> Will Mario Kart 8 be released on the Quality of Life device ?
> Anyone know ?


 

 I don't really think the QoL device will be for ''traditional'' games, just for stuff like Brain Training, Wii Fit, et cetera. Plus, it would decrease what little attention the Wii U has and that would be incredibly stupid of Nintendo. Nintendo also rarely releases the (more or less) exact game on different consoles (the only exception that I can think of right now is Twilight Princess on the GC and the Wii, I might be missing stuff though).


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## dogmarch (May 6, 2014)

T Link7 said:


> I don't really think the QoL device will be for ''traditional'' games, just for stuff like Brain Training, Wii Fit, et cetera. Plus, it would decrease what little attention the Wii U has and that would be incredibly stupid of Nintendo. Nintendo also rarely releases the (more or less) exact game on different consoles (the only exception that I can think of right now is Twilight Princess on the GC and the Wii, I might be missing stuff though).


 
pokemon Mystery dungeon red and blue on the gba and ds.


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## WhiteMaze (May 6, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "Nintendo is not opposed to working with other companies to make such a thing. Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago"
> 
> "Lets not forget they worked with Sony ages ago"
> 
> ...


 
In other words, lets not forget Nintendo and Sony worked together* BEFORE* they had blood-lust flaming goblin wars between each other.


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## MushGuy (May 6, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> ***king Blue shells !
> LOL







WAKA WAKA WAKA!


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