# Can you build a PC as powerful as the XB1X for $500?



## Deboog (Jun 17, 2017)

Interesting article! I was curious about this. People who are complaining about the price tag really need a reality check.


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## x65943 (Jun 17, 2017)

Wow. I wonder if they are taking a big loss on every console that gets sold.

Of course economy of scale will help them get each one for a little less, but I still find it hard to believe they will be making any profit off of these systems.


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## VinsCool (Jun 17, 2017)

Safe option to assume is that they sell consoles at loss, getting profits from games. That's a pretty good marketing way to sell, and get profits.


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## x65943 (Jun 17, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Safe option to assume is that they sell consoles at loss, getting profits from games. That's a pretty good marketing way to sell, and get profits.



It's not a very good strategy to make profit, they will lose a lot of money on this for months/years. It will only pay off if they manage to take a foothold in the market again. I see this as their last ditch effort to catch up with Sony. 

The PS3 was sold at a loss, and was very expensive at launch - they tried to make money on selling the games, but in the end the cheaper and less suped up console won. The XB1X reminds me a lot of the PS3, and that doesn't bode well for M$.


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## RustInPeace (Jun 17, 2017)

That's incredible. Acronym by the way, it's XBOX. X Box One X. If you separate X and Box, there you go, I didn't realize that until seeing a Facebook post that featured a picture pointing this out. Blew my mind. My PC in total cost $3600, including mouse and keyboard, I guess the specs on that are better, save for the 4K Blu-Ray drive, I just have a BD-RW. This is going to be a case of Microsoft needing to pump out games as potential system sellers. PS4 Pro showed that mid-generation upgrades are extremely rocky. I guess Switch can count, but it wins out on an improved concept and being different from its predecessor, whereas XBOX and PS4 Pro are not different save from better hardware, it's the same overall presentation and package. As someone who hasn't owned an Xbox One, I'm more likely to bite than the people that currently own one, so they'd need some heavy duty marketing, heavy duty titles, and more console exclusives to push themselves over Sony, who are undoubtedly better in the exclusive title department. 4K blu-ray alone wouldn't make me buy this.


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## guisadop (Jun 17, 2017)

Isn't selling at a loss illegal in Europe?


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## x65943 (Jun 17, 2017)

guisadop said:


> Isn't selling at a loss illegal in Europe?


Predatory pricing is illegal in many places, but you would probably need to prove intent, AND someone would probably need to have been demonstrably hurt by the practice.


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## Stephano (Jun 17, 2017)

Wow.....
I was not expecting this.
I don't know what to believe any more.


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## DeoNaught (Jun 17, 2017)

Wew lad...

If this can run Windows10 I'm sold.


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## rileysrjay (Jun 17, 2017)

Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.


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## ov3rkill (Jun 17, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Safe option to assume is that they sell consoles at loss, getting profits from games. That's a pretty good marketing way to sell, and get profits.



plus their subscription or what they call game pass if I'm mistaken. There is also the gold subscription. No idea if it's the same.


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## x65943 (Jun 17, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.


Well, the obvious answer to that is this. The console is still much weaker than your average PC gamer's PC, and has much less utility. 

This thing is still completely locked down, and games will never drop in price like PC games do.


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## Benja81 (Jun 17, 2017)

Doesn't mean they sell at a loss though, remember they get parts way closer to cost than just buying random parts on Amazon lol, due to the very large amount they will be buying. They certainly wont be making their money on the consoles though.


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## Stephano (Jun 17, 2017)

@rileysrjay 
The artical also made a very interesting point that the cost of these parts might decrease as we approach the release date of the Xbox One X. So it may be a little early to name a victor. But regardless of the outcome.... A war is coming and boy will it be a fun one to watch.


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## rileysrjay (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Well, the obvious answer to that is this. The console is still much weaker than your average PC gamer's PC, and has much less utility.
> 
> This thing is still completely locked down, and games will never drop in price like PC games do.


True, but this is the PC Master racers that we're talking about. The majority of them wouldn't figure out the obvious. They're just gonna make fun of not being able to run games in 1000 frames or whatever lame excuse they come up with.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 17, 2017)

I figured that would be the case when I saw the price and the "specs". They're definitely selling the XBonerX at a loss, whether or not it'll pan out though I'm not sure. 

Although you could easily cut the price of their "lower end" PC build enough to make it cost just less than an Xbox One X. Get rid of the bluray drive (literally no PC game uses it these days), use a HDD from a PC they already have, getting rid of the Windows 10 license fee by using the assistive technology, using an old PC case.


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## Benja81 (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Well, the obvious answer to that is this. The console is still much weaker than your average PC gamer's PC, and has much less utility.
> 
> This thing is still completely locked down, and games will never drop in price like PC games do.


Right, plus when you want to upgrade usually you can stick a new GPU in there and add another 5-10 yrs of life to your rig, instead of needing another whole new console.


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## linuxares (Jun 17, 2017)

Pff Amatures! I got a better system for rougly 530$, (OEM license from a REDDIT place) I could have choosen another CPU, for 30$ more and got an 8 core instead of a 6 core. However the speed on the 6 core was a lot faster than the 8 core so it would have evened out.
Then again, these people aren't selling at a loose profit. So yeah, it's perfectly possible to build a system close to the specs of the Xbox One. Of course I don't know how much the parts will cost around the release of the Xbox One X.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XXQNwV

PCWorld is as trustful as Kotaku, so I wouldn't even try to listen to their advices


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## Lightyose (Jun 17, 2017)

Well, I don't care about Xbox anyway.


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## 59672 (Jun 17, 2017)

A single board specialty made device possibly being sold at a loss selling for a lower cost than a bunch of components? You dont say.

That being said in a year or two like always you'll be able to certainly build a lot better for a lot lower price. The thing with these comparisons is the baseline goal of a console's power. Most builders wouldn't "just" build a PC aiming for a console's performance, you can go much further by spending a little more on PC. Not to mention dedicated gaming device with imo poor media capabilities compared to the endless possibilities of what you can do on a PC. If the only thing you do is game than that's cool and all but gaming isn't the end all to a PC.

It's always easy to "win" a comparison when you set the goalposts.


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## Costello (Jun 17, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Pff Amatures! I got a better system for rougly 530$, (OEM license from a REDDIT place) I could have choosen another CPU, for 30$ more and got an 8 core instead of a 6 core. However the speed on the 6 core was a lot faster than the 8 core so it would have evened out.
> Then again, these people aren't selling at a loose profit. So yeah, it's perfectly possible to build a system close to the specs of the Xbox One. Of course I don't know how much the parts will cost around the release of the Xbox One X.
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XXQNwV
> ...



that's a pretty good config and to be fair I'm sure you would get pretty much the same performance as the XB1X, but...
- the XB1X has 12GB GDDR5, your config only comes with 8 GB DDR3. I am not sure that this would make a huge difference but still pointing it out
- no operating system (you cant just get away with "_I'm getting it for free from somewhere_", or else this isn't a fair comparison)
- the blu-ray player you selected, I honestly have no idea - does it support 4K?
- your selection includes a $10 discount which isn't fair either
- 6 core CPU: you say it evens out due to superior raw core power ? fine I'll take your word for it ... but it's still a 6 core. Just pointing out facts.
- no keyboard, mouse, or any input device included
- 430W PSU, is that not a little low if you want to run games on 4K?

at the end for $530 (or $540 if you dont include the discount) you are still not getting the same specs as the XB1X


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## xelrix (Jun 17, 2017)

It make sense to sell the console cheap and profit on games.
People buy the console once, but games can be made, remade, remastered, collectors edition, dlc, subscriptions, etc.


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## marksteele (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> that's a pretty good config and to be fair I'm sure you would get pretty much the same performance as the XB1X, but...
> - the XB1X has 12GB GDDR5, your config only comes with 8 GB DDR3. I am not sure that this would make a huge difference but still pointing it out
> - no operating system (you cant just get away with "_I'm getting it for free from somewhere_", or else this isn't a fair comparison)
> - the blu-ray player you selected, I honestly have no idea - does it support 4K?
> ...



I mean is it fair to include the OS in the cost? Microsoft doesn't pay a fee since they developed their OS in-house. You could also argue that Linux is a valid OS and it's free so.


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## linuxares (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> that's a pretty good config and to be fair I'm sure you would get pretty much the same performance as the XB1X, but...
> - the XB1X has 12GB GDDR5, your config only comes with 8 GB DDR3. I am not sure that this would make a huge difference but still pointing it out
> - no operating system (you cant just get away with "_I'm getting it for free from somewhere_", or else this isn't a fair comparison)
> - the blu-ray player you selected, I honestly have no idea - does it support 4K?
> ...


True enough, neither did theirs comparison. That's what I ment about "amatures" for being a PC website, they kind of dropped the ball. I don't know how legal/gray that subreddit is. I was aiming for Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 Home. 8.1 I can get for 20$ and Windows 10 Home for 40$. That's why I upped the price. I don't know about the bluray, I actually didn't check. I was looking for external once, but it didn't look as clean.

Yes, it's 6 cores. It's not all about the cores. There are i5s beating i7s that are 2 cores (with hyperthreading) vs 4 cores (with hyperthreading). You got to account that I can overclock the GPU and CPU. I would therefore even got a couple of more FPS for free.
Sure a keyboard and mouse, very basic is like 10$. No I don't account for a monitor or TV, it's not a fair comparison 

GDDR5 uses lower voltage than a normal memory. Therefore they kind of match. Why Microsoft didn't go with GDDR5X just blows my mind.


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## iAqua (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> that's a pretty good config and to be fair I'm sure you would get pretty much the same performance as the XB1X, but...
> - the XB1X has 12GB GDDR5, your config only comes with 8 GB DDR3. I am not sure that this would make a huge difference but still pointing it out *It really wouldn't.*
> - no operating system (you cant just get away with "_I'm getting it for free from somewhere_", or else this isn't a fair comparison) *Linux is technically available. But yeah, you're right. (and so is piracy :^)*
> - the blu-ray player you selected, I honestly have no idea - does it support 4K? *Doesn't even matter, no way you're going for 4k with this type of PC.*
> ...


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## Armadillo (Jun 17, 2017)

Don't see why it matters if it's not a pefect match or not. The challenge was "as powerful", not 1:1. 




linuxares said:


> I don't know about the bluray, I actually didn't check. I was looking for external once, but it didn't look as clean.



Doesn't matter. Won't play it on that system.

DRM nonsense means you need Skylake (but more than likely Kaby for most stuff) + some other requierments, it's fucking stupid. Paranoid companies making it more trouble than it's worth.


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## x65943 (Jun 17, 2017)

>Doesn't even matter, no way you're going for 4k with this type of PC.
I think Costy's point was that you couldn't use the drive to watch 4k movies.


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## 0nethe (Jun 17, 2017)

Do not also forget that Microsoft is probably buying from the manufacturers and not the distributors or retailers hence price might be lower than you may think.
You will be surprised to see how much your PC cost from the manufacturer's point of view. Because there are a whole supply chain going on from Manufacturer => distributor/wholesaler => retailer => customer , price going up at each level.


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## iAqua (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> >Doesn't even matter, no way you're going for 4k with this type of PC.
> I think Costy's point was that you couldn't use the drive to watch 4k movies.


Oh, that makes sense, but still $500 PC > 4K Monitor/TV


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## osaka35 (Jun 17, 2017)

when it comes to 4k, a lot of the onus is put on the gpu rather than the cpu. if you have a build with a not-so-great cpu, but a really great gpu, then upping resolution will result in a smoother experience. i'm assuming it's something similar in this case.


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## iAqua (Jun 17, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> when it comes to 4k, a lot of the onus is put on the gpu rather than the cpu. if you have a build with a not-so-great cpu, but a really great gpu, then upping resolution will result in a smoother experience. i'm assuming it's something similar in this case.


I'm well aware of this, but a RX580 with a ryzen 1800x still wouldn't be able to run games at 4k.


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## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2017)

Here's a build I found.You just need anoughter 8gb's of ram to match the one x's.


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## Armadillo (Jun 17, 2017)

Why is the 580 expected to push 4K native on everything?

The xbox one X is not going to be native 4K on everything. Assassins creed is already confirmed checkerboard upscale and the the logo Microsoft are using for 4K indiactes native, upscaled or checkerboard. 

Little unfair to expect the pc to be doing native while the console doesn't.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 17, 2017)

Armadillo said:


> Little unfair to expect the pc to be doing native while the console doesn't.


try telling that to the robot 1-x boys


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## Burlsol (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Wow. I wonder if they are taking a big loss on every console that gets sold.
> 
> Of course economy of scale will help them get each one for a little less, but I still find it hard to believe they will be making any profit off of these systems.


The difference is that they are working directly with the manufacturer and getting specialized components instead of what is available to the open market. Instead of the hardware needing to have capabilities to work with a wider set of other hardware, they can use components that are cheaper to make and have lower tolerances.

Just comparing specs never gets you anywhere. Consoles may be getting close to being PCs, may have similar hardware, but they are not PCs and do not function in the same kind of environment.


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## DKB (Jun 17, 2017)

To the people that say that they can build a 4k 60fps computer for 500 dollars..

lol pass me the the good shit that your smoking 

we do not have that tech

...yet


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## Seliph (Jun 17, 2017)

Interesting. I don't know much about economics or whatever but the Xbox One X looks like a make or break effort for Microsoft. I can't wait to see this play out.



Heh. I bet that if I was really rich I could buy a bunch of One X's and buy no games for them to screw over Microsoft because the only chance they have in making a profit would be by selling games. That'd be funny.


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## GhostLatte (Jun 17, 2017)

Although the specs of the Xbox One X may be great, it's going to be shit if it has no content.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Jun 17, 2017)

Yeah, $500 for 12GBs GDDR5, 6Tflops of raw GPU power, and a decent CPU, coupled with a very efficient architecture and with the better game optimization of a console, there's no way you're going to be able to build a PC right now at that price point. Give it two or three years and you will eventually be able to, but for right now, the Scorpio is actually a good deal for the hardware.


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## nero99 (Jun 17, 2017)

The 580 is what needs to be replaced if you want to make closer to $500. maybe a 460,470,560,570 would help with making it a "console killer". Then again, I'm a guy who built a $3,000 amd ryzen pc for shits and giggles.


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## duffmmann (Jun 17, 2017)

For what the XOX is, it isn't a bad deal at all.  However, if I wanted something like the XOX that could do so much more, I'd probably opt to instead just make the most powerful PC I could within my price range, something I could build for $1,000 or less, which would definitely be more powerful than an XOX.  But in all honestly, a super powerful machine just isn't something I'm dying for at this time.


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## AtomSmasherMazionga (Jun 17, 2017)

technically speaking, you can build a $5000 PC gaming monster machine for $500 IF you have the patience and the skills to do so, as well as the resources to find the parts you need.


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## kumikochan (Jun 17, 2017)

Even a 1080 is struggling with 4K. My 1080 TI on the other  hand is almost running everything above 60 fps 4k max settings. 1080 TI is almost getting there  but 4K is a thing for the next generation of cards


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## iAqua (Jun 17, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Even a 1080 is struggling with 4K. My 1080 TI on the other  hand is almost running everything above 60 fps 4k max settings. 1080 TI is almost getting there  but 4K is a thing for the next generation of cards


wanna give me one? ;^)


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## kumikochan (Jun 17, 2017)

iAqua said:


> wanna give me one? ;^)


nah sorry xp


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## Xenon Hacks (Jun 17, 2017)

The system is very good however its obvious they are selling these things at a loss if I had to make a guesstimate I would say around $150-$175 a unit.


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## Jiehfeng (Jun 17, 2017)

So, bulk buying or ignoring profits? Not surprising.



rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.



https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/6hp6d0/can_you_do_this_on_a_500_console/


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## Taleweaver (Jun 17, 2017)

Deboog said:


> Interesting article! I was curious about this. People who are complaining about the price tag really need a reality check.


Erm...I'm not sure which complaints you're referring to exactly, but 500 bucks is still a lot of money. The fact that you get well above average technology for said money doesn't change the fact that you can get an average or even a decent console for half the price.

Don't get me wrong: it's an interesting product that will most likely sell well to their niche: the gamers that want to have the most powerful console on the planet. Said group undoubtedly already has a huge-ass television on which you can actually see a performance difference without a looking glass.

For microsoft's sake, I hope that that group is large enough to make them a profit on this thing (in the long run, obviously).


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## Deboog (Jun 17, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> Erm...I'm not sure which complaints you're referring to exactly, but 500 bucks is still a lot of money. The fact that you get well above average technology for said money doesn't change the fact that you can get an average or even a decent console for half the price.
> 
> Don't get me wrong: it's an interesting product that will most likely sell well to their niche: the gamers that want to have the most powerful console on the planet. Said group undoubtedly already has a huge-ass television on which you can actually see a performance difference without a looking glass.
> 
> For microsoft's sake, I hope that that group is large enough to make them a profit on this thing (in the long run, obviously).


Yeah, I don't expect it to sell well to the masses. Microsoft promised they wouldn't release games that can't run on a normal Xbone, right? So if this is too expensive for someone, they don't need to buy it.


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## orcid (Jun 17, 2017)

It is hard to say if Microsoft is selling at a loss. They don't go to a normal PC shop to buy the components. You don't know how much they really have to spend for the parts of the xbox X.
For example a 4k graphic card for 300$ has definitely a good profit margin for Nvidia or AMD.


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## SomeKindOfUsername (Jun 17, 2017)

A few observations:

RAM prices are not good right now.

GPU prices are also not so great for certain cards due to mining (but they could be worse).

Back on the subject of RAM, the XBOX has 12 GBs of RAM total but only 9 GBs are reserved for games. On a PC, you typically see anywhere from 1 to 2 GBs of RAM reserved for the OS which leaves about 6 GBs for games - but you also have 4-8 GBs of VRAM. Things can be easily skewed when trying to make direct comparisons here and all too often people seem to forget how RAM pools are split on PC.
Still on the subject of RAM, while 8 GBs of VRAM helps for 4K you could _probably _average 30 FPS with just 4 GBs assuming the GPU is powerful enough.

The XBOX isn't entirely truthful when it comes to 4K. While it has native 4K support we have evidence that, like the PS4 Pro, it's using checkerboard rendering for games like AC: Origins and Anthem. You also have to factor in that sometimes consoles run games at "medium" PC settings. I'm not trying to knock the console down here, I'm just seeing a lot of people gloss over this as if you _need_ to do native 4K with highest settings on a $500 PC when a $500 console doesn't.

You can use Windows 10, legally, for free with no time limit. You just have to put up with a transparent watermark (that only sometimes appears) and less customization options.

Direct comparisons based on FLOPS and core count can be pretty meaningless and are often misleading. It's best not to get too hung on up on numbers, synthetic benchmarks, and hype. Real world benchmarks give a much better idea of what to expect and can often surprise you. For example, AMD cards can boast more FLOPS than an Nvidia card, but the Nvidia cards outperform. Similarly, you can have a humble Intel dual core outperform an AMD octa core (the G4560 is a budget beast in this regard coming in at ~$30 less than the FX-8300) and, in some cases, go toe-to-toe with Intel's more expensive offerings.

With all of that out of the way there's no denying that for $500 you're getting some good hardware, especially when you consider 4K UHD Blu-Ray playback - that's where the real value comes in. But I still think there's some truth to saying you can get something that is at least close to an XBOX for ~$500.


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## okarin187 (Jun 17, 2017)

Specs or their cost don't really matter if all you will be getting are some normie games with boring old formula. If you want engaging and interesting games you have to choose between Sony and Nintendo consoles, not Xbox or PC.


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## smf (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> PCWorld concludes that, apparently, for the first time in the history of gaming, a console may be more powerful than a custom built computer of the same price tag at the time of its release!



I can't see where it says that in the article, but if that is what it says then it is completely wrong.

The history of gaming goes back to the 1970's. For a significant part of that time you couldn't self build a computer for the same money as a console at launch. There were times that it wouldn't matter how much money you spent, you wouldn't have been able to assemble a computer that was more powerful than a console.

As time went by the computer hardware manufacturers started targeting the gaming market, which allowed them to be as good or better but it took a while for the cost to come down. The OG xbox was the first console to be exclusively based on technology that had been developed for the PC market & Microsoft used their huge purchasing power and also subsidised that one as well.



Darthlink9 said:


> technically speaking, you can build a $5000 PC gaming monster machine for $500 IF you have the patience and the skills to do so, as well as the resources to find the parts you need.



You couldn't for $500. There isn't that much markup in pre built PC's, but the comparison is supposed to be against a self built computer where you've sourced parts at the lowest prices possible. If you're talking about making your own CPU/GPU etc then it would be impossible to make those in a $500 budget.

The arcade game industry went through a similar pattern, but they suffered earlier because the console & PC market were working against it.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 17, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Even a 1080 is struggling with 4K. My 1080 TI on the other  hand is almost running everything above 60 fps 4k max settings. 1080 TI is almost getting there  but 4K is a thing for the next generation of cards


try telling that to xbots they are convinced all their games are going to be running at perfect native 4k/60 on the 1-x.


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## Xzi (Jun 17, 2017)

Of course not, Microsoft is taking a loss on the console.  Game releases stay expensive on consoles for longer than they do on PC, however.  The pricing evens out pretty quick, and ultimately it's better to have a machine that isn't completely locked down for non-gaming tasks.  At the $500+ range, all devices should be multipurpose.


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## grossaffe (Jun 17, 2017)

PC Master Race doesn't need no Blu Ray drive

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/K7GDsJ


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## endoverend (Jun 17, 2017)

I think it's a bit ridiculous to say this is the first time ever that this was possible. I mean, I suppose it's plausible that you could have built a comparable PC to the PS4 pro for the same price but not without intricate knowledge of the market, a huge amount of time to pick out all the parts and peripherals at their cheapest, and of course the time required to build the system itself. To any experienced PC gamer, none of these are hard in the slightest but it might all seem Greek to a console gamer.

I don't know why people always have to be so cats and dogs about consoles and PCs, both have their own place in the market. Consoles offer cheap power, exclusives, and easy setup while PCs offer easy upgradability, multitasking, and tons of non-gaming utilities. Microsoft is really pushing the envelope here on the cheap power so we'll have to see how the thing actually performs. Some people seem to think this thing will be running games in native 4K though and I want to remind everyone that there is no way in hell it's doing that, it's all upscaled.


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## Xzi (Jun 17, 2017)

endoverend said:


> Some people seem to think this thing will be running games in native 4K though and I want to remind everyone that there is no way in hell it's doing that, it's all upscaled.


It'll run some games in native 4K just as a GTX 1070 @ 6.5TFlops does.  A lot will also be required to run at 1440p upscaled unless they'd rather cut the FPS to 30, though.

For example, DOOM(4) and Rocket League run at 60 FPS in 4K flawlessly (AA off, as it's unnecessary at this resolution).  While games like Witcher 3 and DX Mankind Divided have to be run at 1440p, regardless of settings, to achieve 60 FPS.  A lot depends on optimization, engine, view distance, etc.  Should note that AMD products historically (slightly) under-perform expectations in my experience, whereas Nvidia products meet or exceed expectations.


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## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2017)

It might be true that you most likely cannot get as powerful PC as XBone for such cheap price. The comparisons are completely pointless - this is really about preference of games, community and settings.

The powerfull specs don't mean much if the specs are not utilized correctly. If the game is optimized to run at 1080p (or 4k) and 30fps with some dips, well, too bad for you. If you just could tweak something, like turning off god rays, or ambient occlusion or maybe bit of Anti-aliazing, maybe it would run silky smooth... But no, you can't really change graphical options on Xbox One. You are stuck with it. Even if you change the resolution from 1080p to 720p on console settings it doesn't do anything - the game runs the same.

Some players justify consoles with "I can play on my couch with a controller". So you can on PC, and I do it quite often. I use all my x360 controllers with my PC with a 5$ chinese dongle, and with a bit longer HDMI-cable I plug my computer to TV just I could with consoles. Even if your PC isn't anywhere near your TV, there's growing market of streaming gadgets to ease the computer and tv compatibility.

You probably going to own somekind of PC even if you get a console. It can be some cheap rig which can't do much else than browse the internet, but in modern world you still need it... or some ridiculously priced phone if you manage with that. But I don't know anyone who would buy a powerful gaming PC and not do anything else with it. The specs can also be justified to programming, video/audio/visual editing, streaming, whatever.

The games are preference question. Most games that are released for PS4 and XBone are also on PC. It's mostly Nintendo and handhelds here where you can't compete, if you don't count playing generation or two old games with handheld emulators and dolphin. If you are a huge Uncharted or Halo fan and can't live without, then there's really no other options than buy a console. But same goes for PC exclusives - some players can't go without PC MMO's, Civilizations, what have you. Of course, on consoles you are stuck with small backwards compatibility, multiplatforms and some exclusive games. On PC you basically have backwards compatibility to whatever year you want, and the current amount of PC exclusives is ridiculous. Recently the publishers have been porting older console games to PC systems, and Microsoft advertises cross play bringing many their "exclusives" to PC market.

Then there's the game prices, which are in most cases just cheaper on PC. Especially with digital titles, since you are not chained to the console marketplace. There's really no system like https://isthereanydeal.com/ on consoles. Then there's also the digital key markets, where people are selling keys to each other. Game bundles are almost weekly, and many forums have dedicated threads to giving away free game keys for some extras the people did not want. I can't remember when was the last time I've bought anything on the base price, since discounts are so common. Heck, I can even remember only a single instance (Planet Coaster) where I have payed more than 20€ in the last 5 years. Though this is biased, since I mostly play Indie titles costing < 20€ as a base price anyway.

I think the biggest reasons is community. If online is your thing and all your friends play on Xbox Live, it can be quite lonely to play on any other systems and to justify moving to PC and PS4 instead. Speaking of online services, that's 30-50$ extra per year to your broadband bill on consoles.

Then there's the convenience and familiarity. People like that. I still think consoles lost a lot of their edge when it moved from "let's just pop this game right in and start playing" to "let's pop this in, install system updates, install the game, no wait gotta delete something else before I can, install the day one update". It was way more convenient back then, but now it's basically the same as with PC's, though with PC's you also probably have to tweak some graphical settings too - if you know you can't just max everything out. If you can go buy a new console and hook it up to your tv, that's easy. I can't do that on PC. Or I could, but then I probably would have payed too much and got under-performing computer. When I finally upgraded my whole PC last year, I spent two weeks comparing specs and checking for costs. Eventually I payed 1200€ (including postage to door and the shop assembling it for me) for a rig. Same computer with worse quality parts, less SSD space and less CPU power the shop advertised ready made for 1350€. Lesson is - you really have to do some reseach when buying PC, or have someone else doing it for you. That's inconvenience. Also if I have waited for a year, I could probably now had the same PC I have now but with even better card (I have gtx 1060 now, but now you might be able to get cheapest gtx 1070 with the same 300€ I payed for 1060). The base price is also quite inconvenient, and could hit you quite hard if your income is low.

Then there's the mods, upgrading the PC....

I would not say PC is for everyone or consoles are for everyone. If the markets continue like this, I'm probably never going back to consoles (apart from maybe some handhelds). I was PC guy at 90's, then console gamer to 2002-2012, and now back to PC only. For me it's far more better, since I'm mostly towards PC exclusives, I would need a decent PC for programming anyways, and with the prices I pay for games the average price is most likely going to be similar to owning Xbox One X + (less) games + Xbox Live subscription in the long run, even if I payed 2x the price for the actual hardware.


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## D34DL1N3R (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> in the end the cheaper and less suped up console won.



Or not.


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## UltraHurricane (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> It's not a very good strategy to make profit, they will lose a lot of money on this for months/years. It will only pay off if they manage to take a foothold in the market again. I see this as their last ditch effort to catch up with Sony.
> 
> The PS3 was sold at a loss, and was very expensive at launch - they tried to make money on selling the games, but in the end the cheaper and less suped up console won. The XB1X reminds me a lot of the PS3, and that doesn't bode well for M$.



that's only because the PS3 was a very expensive console to manufacture with it's overtly complex architecture and multimedia features they had to cut out in later models to save money like the numerous memory card slots and PS2 backwards compatibility (i'm still hard press to find anyone that actually used the SACD function on the early models)

so i can't imagine XB1X is being sold at THAT much of a loss since it's still basically off-the-shelf x86 hardware


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## duwen (Jun 17, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Safe option to assume is that they sell consoles at loss, getting profits from games. That's a pretty good marketing way to sell, and get profits.



It was common knowledge that almost all consoles in the nineties/2000's were sold at a loss with profits coming instead from software sales. That's why you seldom see price drops on Nintendo hardware.
The X360 was also initially sold at a loss, unlike the PS3 which was deemed overpriced yet barely covered it's production costs.



Costello said:


> ...the newly revealed Xbox One X (which I personally decided to refer to as XB1X but feel to come up with your own acronym)



I like this...


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> feel to come up with your own acronym


this


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## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2017)

X1X
Xonex
XBoneX
XBONX
XOX
Onex
Xeno

or just *xb*ox *o*ne *x*... *xbox*?


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## The Real Jdbye (Jun 17, 2017)

I don't think their build #1 is the best attempt. That CPU is far more powerful than the XBox One X, and so is the GPU AFAIK. They could have gone with cheaper components and gotten a build more similar to the XB1X for a much lower price.
If you take that into account then the price/performance ratio is likely better than an XB1X.
Build #2 on the other hand seems like just an average mid-budget PC that has nothing to do with XB1X at all, the XB1X' AMD CPU doesn't even compare to that i5, nor does the price, and the components seem a bit mismatched (for example, going for a high end gaming motherboard in a budget build makes no sense)
They could have done better.

Also, if used components are an option, then it's possible to build a PC that outperforms a XB1X by several times more for the same price.



linuxares said:


> Pff Amatures! I got a better system for rougly 530$, (OEM license from a REDDIT place) I could have choosen another CPU, for 30$ more and got an 8 core instead of a 6 core. However the speed on the 6 core was a lot faster than the 8 core so it would have evened out.
> Then again, these people aren't selling at a loose profit. So yeah, it's perfectly possible to build a system close to the specs of the Xbox One. Of course I don't know how much the parts will cost around the release of the Xbox One X.
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XXQNwV
> ...


That seems like a more reasonable build and would easily outperform the XB1X in games I think. Games will benefit more from higher CPU clock than 2 extra cores.


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## smf (Jun 17, 2017)

arq said:


> But I don't know anyone who would buy a powerful gaming PC and not do anything else with it. The specs can also be justified to programming, video/audio/visual editing, streaming, whatever.



I have a year old i7 laptop that was pretty expensive & an extra long hdmi cable so I can plug it in. I rarely do though and my ps3 gets more use at the moment.


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## Ritsuki (Jun 17, 2017)

What PCWorld does is interesting, but parts for an electronic device generally costs less when bought in bulk, when the part is developed by themselves, and other stuff. The price listed here are prices from Amazon, so of course it is going to be more expensive. Knowing the production costs would be a bit more precise


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## leon315 (Jun 17, 2017)

There's no reason to buy Xbox x, since 90% of games are coming for window 10,buy switche instead  which is the only one with Mario and Co.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 17, 2017)

I never quite understood the point of this exercise, not when they did it with the original XBO and PS4 and not now with the Pro and X either. You can't replicate the build with off-the-shelf parts because both "supercharged" systems use solutions unavailable on PC, or ones that were only just released and are only available in high end parts. Both systems use shared memory, GDDR5 on the PS4 to make things interesting which isn't usable as system memory on PC's, both implement features of the VEGA line to support 16-bit computation on a traditionally 32-bit GPU series, the XBOX uses a hardware implementation of DirectX which significantly cuts down on the amount of instructions that'd otherwise had to be ran in software and they both run software specifically optimised for them to begin with. Even if you could build an identical PC, you wouldn't get the same performance anyways, so it's not a like for like comparison. I feel that it's a waste of time since there's no level benchmark to look at, at least one that'd be available to the public.


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## netovsk (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> This thing is still completely locked down, and games will never drop in price like PC games do.



Depends on the game.

Torment Tides of Numenara prices at least for me were always around 30 (20 on sale) on both Steam and Xbox

Gears of War 4, Dead Rising 4, Halo Wars 2 brand new physical copies at least here in south america go for 65-75% off Retail price meanwhile they never went below 50% on the UWP version. And if you take into account that physical copies hold value, it's a steal.

BUT you don't have to pay 40-50 for a remaster on PC for instance.

And there is an advantage on PC which could seal the deal for some: You don't get locked to 30 fps EVER. Xbox one X could probably run destiny 2 at 60 fps but they locked at 30 so it would'nt give an even bigger edge over Xbox one S players. You don't get that kind of BS in PC.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 17, 2017)

netovsk said:


> Depends on the game.
> 
> Torment Tides of Numenara prices at least for me were always around 30 (20 on sale) on both Steam and Xbox
> 
> ...


Except you do (Batman: Arkham Knight, anyone?), the difference being that you can patch the games, however doing so automatically makes you ineligible to play online there's any anti-modification measures in place to prevent cheating.


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## Windowlicker (Jun 17, 2017)

Do you know what actually has countless of games to play? PCs. Not glorified multimedia boxes. That's what matters in the end.


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## netovsk (Jun 17, 2017)

BTW not sure they are actually taking that big of a loss since they actually took the previous hardware and heavily customized it integrating DX12 and APIs into the silicon and made it super efficient removing any bottlenecks. It's not really about the cost of producing hardware per unit but on how much money microsoft sank engineering this beauty.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 17, 2017)

netovsk said:


> BTW not sure they are actually taking that big of a loss since they actually took the previous hardware and heavily customized it integrating DX12 and APIs into the silicon and made it super efficient removing any bottlenecks. It's not really about the cost of producing hardware per unit but on how much money microsoft sank engineering this beauty.


Pretty much. They're saving a lot on RAM (one form of shared memory rather than a split design like on PC's), integrating everything into one APU (no need for discrete ports, easier power rail construction, simpler cooling) and a number of other things you just wouldn't be able to achieve on a PC box from scratch. I think they're close to breaking even in terms of price, especially since they're paying "mate's rates" for the parts, not RRP like a normal user.


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## spotanjo3 (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> PCWorld have tried, and apparently the answer is a big *NO*.
> 
> View attachment 90400
> 
> ...



What about Nvidia ? I am not fond of Radeon.


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## Lukerz (Jun 17, 2017)

Microsoft won't be making much money of this I guess.


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## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.


1. when buying a new pc I don't always need to buy casing as I do still have my old one (not always thats the case, but... whatever)
2. I dont really need the bluray drive so I will probably not buy it
3. a pc gamer doesn't need to pay periodically for online gaming- just two years cost over 100$...
4. a pc gamer can upgrade just one part at any given time- no need to buy a whole console just for better graphics...
5. ability to use pc for other stuff- programming, video making (sorry I cant find a better word...)
6. if someone wants it, he can buy something more expensive and get a better machine then the xb1x...

and again, I am not in the pc master race as I own 2 (soon 3) consoles but you have to realize the advantages of pc over consoles... 

also, the consoles I own are 3ds, xb360 and (soon^tm) a switch. on 3ds I dont have to pay for online and on the two others I dont use, nor do I plan to use online... for that I have my laptop (NOT GAMING LAPTOP) which can play online games Im interested in (minecraft, lf2, lately- payday2)


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 17, 2017)

MS have most likely struck a deal with AMD to sell at a pretty big loss, meaning they'll probably not have many of these consoles in comparison to the number of Xbox One S's.


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## DinohScene (Jun 17, 2017)

Interesting.

PC masterrace?
I think not anymore.


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## Most-Wanted (Jun 17, 2017)

Pc Master Race, We save a ton load more money via Games, pirated or Steam   , ability to upgrade parts etc etc  .. and if we want to use a controller we have Emulation Station or big picture mode

People that buy locked down consoles end up spending more money for less


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

Xbox X runs checkerboard 4K like PS4 Pro doesn't it? Not so much for a 4K/60 experience that they kept on bragging about.

PS4 Pro for me would be the better deal due to the library of exclusive games it has and better, optimised third party games whereas on Xbox they run at lower performance.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 17, 2017)

duwen said:


> That's why you seldom see price drops on Nintendo hardware.



Not exactly why Nintendo doesn't sell their consoles at a loss. Rather, Nintendo games are considered more valuable as they dont make too many of them, just like their consoles.
I believe there are other reasons as well, but I cant be bothered to list them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DinohScene said:


> Interesting.
> 
> PC masterrace?
> I think not anymore.



Well it still is, just if you're on a budget, it's not anymore.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Xbox X runs checkerboard 4K like PS4 Pro doesn't it? Not so much for a 4K/60 experience that they kept on bragging about.
> 
> PS4 Pro for me would be the better deal due to the library of exclusive games it has and better, optimised third party games whereas on Xbox they run at lower performance.



That's only in Ass Creed.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> Pretty much. They're saving a lot on RAM (one form of shared memory rather than a split design like on PC's), integrating everything into one APU (no need for discrete ports, easier power rail construction, simpler cooling) and a number of other things you just wouldn't be able to achieve on a PC box from scratch. I think they're close to breaking even in terms of price, especially since they're paying "mate's rates" for the parts, not RRP like a normal user.



I think the shared RAM is what reduces the price quite a bit. 
So does having it all on one socket as well that discount from AMD.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

duwen said:


> That's only in Ass Creed.


Xbox X claims it can do so much and for $500 but it has its limits and anyone expecting it to do 4K/60 will be in for a surprise.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 17, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Xbox X claims it can do so much and for $500 but it has its limits and anyone expecting it to do 4K/60 will be in for a surprise.



It's funny. My PC with an i7 7700K and a GTX 1070 finds it hard to get 4k 60 on high settings.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> It's funny. My PC with an i7 7700K and a GTX 1070 finds it hard to get 4k 60 on high settings.


The people Microsoft is targeting Xbox X at doesn't seem like they care much about the catalogue of games but moreso its hardware, for those people gaming consoles are not what they should be considering.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 17, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> The people Microsoft is targeting Xbox X at doesn't seem like they care much about the catalogue of games but moreso its hardware, for those people gaming consoles are not what they should be considering.



Most definitely. I own consoles for the catalogue, my PC will easily whoop my consoles.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

"Most powerful console ever!" PS3 was at one point.


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## flame1234 (Jun 17, 2017)

Gotta wait a few years for 4k/60. It's possible now but you need two graphics cards or something.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jun 17, 2017)

flame1234 said:


> Gotta wait a few years for 4k/60. It's possible now but you need two graphics cards or something.



I have a GTX 1070 and 7700K, you don't need two cards in sli/crossfire for 4k 60.


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## air2004 (Jun 17, 2017)

I hope this thing fails horribly. I say this because the Xbone was released less than 4 years ago and now MS is already talking about a new (updated version) console? 
Should this thing do well , we'll be getting new consoles (updated versions) faster and faster. The home console will be like Apple and it's iPhone.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 17, 2017)

Regarding checkerboarding, both the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X are capable of native 4K, checkerboard 4K, 2K, 1080p and 720p, the actual resolution depends on the game in question. Naturally with a 30% specs difference the XBOX has the advantage here, but I just wanted to point out that not all Pro titles are checkerboarded.


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## jerzmob (Jun 17, 2017)

You all are missing the key word "custom" As of now the xbone x has been getting exposed left & right.  4k checkerboard, dynamic resolution,  30 fps.need I say more


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## flame1234 (Jun 17, 2017)

air2004 said:


> I hope this thing fails horribly. I say this because the Xbone was released less than 4 years ago and now MS is already talking about a new (updated version) console?
> Should this thing do well , we'll be getting new consoles (updated versions) faster and faster. The home console will be like Apple and it's iPhone.


The home console will be like iPhone except the refreshes will happen every 3 or 4 years instead of every 1 year. I am okay with this.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Jun 17, 2017)

This is what makes the Xbox 1X interesting, but at the end of the day PC's will always be more capable maybe not in terms of pure performance, but terms of what you can do with it. Even the lowliest of PC's can run some emulators or do your taxes and in general do work. Game consoles will always be stuck for the most part playing games. This isn't a bad thing though they are built to do one thing and in the case of the Xbox 1X do it extremely well. 

Just need to get a 4K TV and an Xbox 1X now... lol


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## Naridar (Jun 17, 2017)

Good luck finding an RX580 now that miners have bought it up en masse. Also, for the 2nd option, isn't a 140$ blu-ray drive overkill?


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## grossaffe (Jun 17, 2017)

Naridar said:


> Good luck finding an RX580 now that miners have bought it up en masse. Also, for the 2nd option, isn't a 140$ blu-ray drive overkill?


They were probably doing that to match the UHD Blu Ray capability of the XBOX.  I omitted the Blu Ray drive entirely on my build since it's not necessary for the playing of PC games.


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## pustal (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> *for the first time in the history of gaming, a console may be more powerful than a custom built computer of the same price tag*




Wasn't that one of the sell points of the PS3 at launch?


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## Jayro (Jun 17, 2017)

They overspent in the intel motherboard, mine was $79 and could handle that exact setup.


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## Justinde75 (Jun 17, 2017)

They work really different though. You can update a pc anytime you want, and parts that are on the league of the xbox one x are going to be cheaper in the next couple of years.


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## Jayro (Jun 17, 2017)

guisadop said:


> Isn't selling at a loss illegal in Europe?


Microsoft isn't based out of Europe, so that's hardly relevant.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

air2004 said:


> I hope this thing fails horribly. I say this because the Xbone was released less than 4 years ago and now MS is already talking about a new (updated version) console?
> Should this thing do well , we'll be getting new consoles (updated versions) faster and faster. The home console will be like Apple and it's iPhone.


Do you share the same sentiment in regards to PS4 Pro?


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## LongDongSilver (Jun 17, 2017)

Im sure we could possible build one roughly as powerful with some luck buying used parts but what are we degenerates.500$ is a solid price on the xbox though


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 17, 2017)

Bullshit. You don't need the same exact components to get the same performance. The Potato Masher Pro costs $450 with more performance than the PS4 Pro, and certainly more than the XB1X. Oh, and a PC can at least do other things besides gaming


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## dimmidice (Jun 17, 2017)

Jayro said:


> Microsoft isn't based out of Europe, so that's hardly relevant.


They're selling in europe so it is relevant actually. Not that it matters.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 17, 2017)

Oh, and they do bullshit by spending money on 8 GB of DDR3, while XB1X uses GDDR5, which has nothing to do with that. XB1X has only graphics-optimized RAM.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh, and it'll be funny when that Potato Masher guy will come with a Potato Masher X for $480 that will crush the XB1X with an Ivy Bridge CPU


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## Ryccardo (Jun 17, 2017)

pustal said:


> Wasn't that one of the sell points of the PS3 at launch?


It was also sold for a very strong loss... irrational fear of hacking likely wasn't the only reason they removed dual boot

PS3 back then was also an excellent features/price bluray player (so was PS2 for DVDs), note how current gen tried to avoid also being a media center (aka distracting from gaming activities) and has paid online (online multiplayer having been trojaned in most gamers' desires since the Dreamcast)


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 17, 2017)

Ryccardo said:


> It was also sold for a very strong loss... irrational fear of hacking likely wasn't the only reason they removed dual boot
> 
> PS3 back then was also an excellent features/price bluray player (so was PS2 for DVDs), note how current gen tried to avoid also being a media center (aka distracting from gaming activities) and has paid online (online multiplayer having been trojaned in most gamers' desires since the Dreamcast)


PS4/XB1 would suck at being anything other than a PC because of the "customness" of the HW. Using GDDR5 memory? Good luck for doing anything other than your bloody [email protected] games.


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## Ryccardo (Jun 17, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> PS4/XB1 would suck at being anything other than a PC because of the "customness" of the HW. Using GDDR5 memory? Good luck for doing anything other than your bloody [email protected] games.


I was talking about the PS3 

(How much processing power do you need for average work, anyway? My current PC is a 2008 laptop and I don't really miss my two newer computers...)


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## J-Machine (Jun 17, 2017)

those builds forget that it's unified ram. 4gb video card (found a 4gb 580 from msi for $235) and 8 gb of system ram should be picked for price comparisons sake. and why pick WD when seagates are cheaper (found a 1tb for 31 from seagate free shipping). the processor is also over powered as well but they did pick the cheapest 8 core on newegg so I guess I wont push that point. Also found a psu for $22 because you only need 500w and the ram in that build wouldn't work so $44 for a single 8gb. Windows 10 keys are $28 as well on kinguin.

That means they could easily make that build for $80 less by being smarter with the choices. $571 is still more by a fair margin but lets remember pc's don't need optical drives anymore ($528) then grab a controller and mouse keyboard (i'll use a wired logitech controller that I own and has xinput for 14.95 as well as a cheap but competent keyboard mouse combo from amazon I found for $8.26) so that adds $23.21 (pc now costs 551.21) All together still $51.21 more than the xbox one x to have a comparable game ready pc but then understand xbox has paid online compared to free on pc (except some online games like WOW) which adds $56-60 thus making the pc cheaper by $5 in the first year alone. Then your already established library is comparable and even if you never used steam or GMG or humble store/bundles, you will save lots on the games. Lastly the pc can do productivity software and a better web browsing experience.

So in short You could still build a gaming pc for less than the new Xbox one x with comparable specs; or taking into account online fees, 2 years to get a comparable price if you keep the optical drive.


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## Bonestorm (Jun 17, 2017)

MS can stick the XBX up their ass

Just waiting for the PS5.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 17, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> MS can stick the XBX up their ass
> 
> Just waiting for the PS5.


Thing is, for now to approach PC-tier performancerice ratio, consoles must use dirty tricks such as false advertisement (4K60 lmao) or using Graphics memory for everything. So...


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## Bonestorm (Jun 17, 2017)

Are PC nerds really that insecure?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



StarTrekVoyager said:


> Thing is, for now to approach PC-tier performancerice ratio, consoles must use dirty tricks such as false advertisement (4K60 lmao) or using Graphics memory for everything. So...


I could care less about "PC tier performance" whatever that means

Sony has exclusives for days


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

Ryccardo said:


> It was also sold for a very strong loss... irrational fear of hacking likely wasn't the only reason they removed dual boot
> 
> PS3 back then was also an excellent features/price bluray player (so was PS2 for DVDs), note how current gen tried to avoid also being a media center (aka distracting from gaming activities) and has paid online (online multiplayer having been trojaned in most gamers' desires since the Dreamcast)


PS3 also had an absolutely fantastic feature -- Fully compatible with PS2 disc games.


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## Bonestorm (Jun 17, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> PS3 also had an absolutely fantastic feature -- Fully compatible with PS2 disc games.


BC PS3's also YLOD like crazy


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 17, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> BC PS3's also YLOD like crazy


Mine hasn't so it's a matter of luck.


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## Bonestorm (Jun 17, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Mine hasn't so it's a matter of luck.


Unless you Reball it, it will fail.

Not trying to troll, infact if they didn't have this problem i would buy a BC model again but i already went through 2 of them.


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## SickPuppy (Jun 17, 2017)

jerzmob said:


> 4k checkerboard, dynamic resolution,  30 fps.need I say more



What would it cost to build a pc with these features.


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## air2004 (Jun 17, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Do you share the same sentiment in regards to PS4 Pro?


Actually , Yes.


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## Alkéryn (Jun 17, 2017)

Yes ! i already made PCs that could play ultra @1080p@60fps for 300 euro
i could make one as powerfull as xbox x for 500

the whole thing is about knowing where to cut the prices, make compromises and also being okay to buy already used stuff
i once found a perfectly working gtx 970 for 150$


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 17, 2017)

I couldn't give less of a shit about its specs. What use are specs without the games I want?
Xbox is still a closed platform.


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## Dasanko (Jun 17, 2017)

I don't know if anyone else has brought this up already, but ignoring the differences in capabilities on both consoles and computers, considering the price difference in software, PCs end up being cheaper in the long run (assuming you buy plenty of software, of course)...


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## Duckling (Jun 17, 2017)

I feel like only XBOX enthusiasts will buy the Xbox 1 10 since the XBOX 1 performs about the same and will be able to run the same games for a cheaper price.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also, currently all RX 400 and RX 500 series GPUs prices have inflated by 200% so 250 USD is not really accurate at the moment. You could replace the RX 580 for a GTX 1060 3GB card and save a few bucks and get relatively similar performance if not better.


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## Steena (Jun 17, 2017)

x65943 said:


> It's not a very good strategy to make profit, they will lose a lot of money on this for months/years. It will only pay off if they manage to take a foothold in the market again. I see this as their last ditch effort to catch up with Sony.
> 
> The PS3 was sold at a loss, and was very expensive at launch - they tried to make money on selling the games, but in the end the cheaper and less suped up console won. The XB1X reminds me a lot of the PS3, and that doesn't bode well for M$.


That's the short term. The PS3 situation then got better and Sony and third parties supported the console much longer, infact it gets pseudo-exclusive jrpgs this year, whereas the 360 has been dead in the water and irrelevant for quite some time now.
The more you invest selling at a loss the longer you plan to sell it. According to wikipedia the 360 sits at 84m consoles sold versus PS3's 80 millions, and that's up to 2013. So the numbers are skewed in favor of the PS3 in some capacity since it got quite a lot of new niche japanese games since then. Regardless, they are pretty close numbers. If you consider how absolutely disastrous the PS3 was at the beginning, you'd believe it would have sold 1/10th of the 360.

Most consoles are also sold at a loss, this is not a shocking news nor bad strategy. Profiting -$10 or +$20 per console doesn't actually matter as much as pricing it right to grow the initial spur of installbase because it's a product you'll sell for 5-8 years and it'll get exponentially cheaper, too.
And even then, you still make the most money selling off game licenses anyway. Remember, the bullshit subscription fees for online and whatnot, the services and all that stuff.

Besides, the 360 was sold at a big loss too. $120 per system according to a gamespot article from 2005. It's why that generation lasted so long. Both the competitors had to pan it out longer. They still profited relatively fine and only got beat by the Wii solely because it was a gimmick that caught on and became a short fad.

As far as I remember the WiiU was also sold at a loss but just buying one game would make them go in the positive already. A less aggressive loss, yet you can see how well that went for them. Console pricing is actually barely relevant and it's mostly gauged for the sake of the competition not its actual value.

I mean I just checked a recent sales chart and the PS3 has sold 2/3rd the WiiU units last month, despite there being a generation gap. Those numbers pile up when it comes to a decade of constant selling.


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## Pluupy (Jun 17, 2017)

Who the *hell* spends $130 on a blu ray drive? What the fuck are you gonna do with a blu-ray drive in this day and age?!
 Why are you buying Windows? What kind of morons wrote this up? 



Costello said:


> *PCWorld's attempt #2*
> With 8GB DDR4, for a total cost of $944
> View attachment 90402
> 
> ...


----------



## x65943 (Jun 17, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> Who the *hell* spends $130 on a blu ray drive? What the fuck are you gonna do with a blu-ray drive in this day and age?!
> Why are you buying Windows? What kind of morons wrote this up?


The idea was to get the same hardware that is present on the xbone - that's why they chose to include the bluray drive.


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## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2017)

>"they are selling at a loss"

I don't believe they are selling at loss, they have someway of not selling at a loss. It can't be possible

Why did they factor in the OS? Xbox can't run Windows 10, and xbox OS doesn't cost anything. That's like factoring in the monitor


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## Foxi4 (Jun 17, 2017)

VinLark said:


> >"they are selling at a loss"
> 
> I don't believe they are selling at loss, they have someway of not selling at a loss. It can't be possible
> 
> Why did they factor in the OS? Xbox can't run Windows 10, and xbox OS doesn't cost anything. That's like factoring in the monitor


All Xbox Ones run a Win10 kernel in the background, they have been for a while.


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 17, 2017)

VinLark said:


> >"they are selling at a loss"
> 
> I don't believe they are selling at loss, they have someway of not selling at a loss. It can't be possible
> 
> Why did they factor in the OS? Xbox can't run Windows 10, and xbox OS doesn't cost anything. That's like factoring in the monitor


Well, you need an OS to game, and the XO's OS is based on Windows afaik.


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## mightymuffy (Jun 17, 2017)

VinLark said:


> >"they are selling at a loss"
> 
> I don't believe they are selling at loss, they have someway of not selling at a loss. It can't be possible
> 
> Why did they factor in the OS? Xbox can't run Windows 10, and xbox OS doesn't cost anything. That's like factoring in the monitor


Oh what was it now, the Wii U or the Wii? Can't remember... either way, it was the first console (whichever one it was) that WASN'T sold at a loss from all 3 companies for years... Like I think I've seen already on here, the PS3 was sold initially at around a loss of $150 per unit. Assuming it is sold at a loss (and don't forget lads, MS won't exactly be taking all $500 of your money here - retailers, etc) then it's not exactly out of the ordinary..

'Tis a good price for that kind of kit in a console anyway: the average joe public would not be able to get a PC at that spec for that kind of price. Factor in the whole closed, set top box thing and it becomes better bang for your buck too.

..But gawd, this has to be one of the most flamebait posts I've seen in yonks, naughty Headmaster!


----------



## chartube12 (Jun 17, 2017)

I seen an interview posted last night, microsoft said they are selling the system at a lost.


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## BlackWizzard17 (Jun 17, 2017)

chartube12 said:


> I seen an interview posted last night, microsoft said they are selling the system at a lost.


Link to interview?


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## Kubas_inko (Jun 17, 2017)

that 12 gb of ram is not RAm but GRAM


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 17, 2017)

Kubas_inko said:


> that 12 gb of ram is not RAm but GRAM


VRAM is still RAM.


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## Kubas_inko (Jun 17, 2017)

gnmmarechal said:


> VRAM is still RAM.


lol just noticed GRAM xd. yes it is RAM but CPU can't use it -> system can't use it. It's only for GPU (textures and other stuff)


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 17, 2017)

Kubas_inko said:


> lol just noticed GRAM xd. yes it is RAM but CPU can't use it -> system can't use it. It's only for textures for GPU


You're wrong. The whole Xbox only has those 12GB of GDDR5 to act as both system and graphics RAM.


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## Kubas_inko (Jun 17, 2017)

gnmmarechal said:


> You're wrong. The whole Xbox only has those 12GB of GDDR5 to act as both system and graphics RAM.


see it now. I apologize. I don't care about Xbox at all.


----------



## Dr.Hacknik (Jun 17, 2017)

The question shouldn't be "can I," it should be "may I?"


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## Cha0tic (Jun 17, 2017)

I will never understand the people that see the topic header come in here just to say I don't care about Xbox.


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 17, 2017)

I will never understand the people that come here to say "I  will never understand the people that see the topic header come in here just to say I don't care about Xbox."


----------



## BlastedGuy9905 (Jun 17, 2017)

Costello said:


> PCWorld have tried, and apparently the answer is a big *NO*.
> 
> View attachment 90400
> 
> ...


XB1X or... XBOX... oh wait


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## aaronz77 (Jun 17, 2017)

In a year from now: YES!


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## APartOfMe (Jun 17, 2017)

i laughed when my Friend said the switch was expensive, i told him that the next xbox would cost at least $500. I was right!


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## Cha0tic (Jun 18, 2017)

gnmmarechal said:


> I will never understand the people that come here to say "I  will never understand the people that see the topic header come in here just to say I don't care about Xbox."



Aren't you hilarious.

Ahahahahhaha let me cause you're incredible.


----------



## ut2k4master (Jun 18, 2017)

epickid37 said:


> i laughed when my Friend said the switch was expensive, i told him that the next xbox would cost at least $500. I was right!


its 499 though ;P


----------



## BlastedGuy9905 (Jun 18, 2017)

ut2k4master said:


> its 499 though ;P


._.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 18, 2017)

air2004 said:


> Actually , Yes.


Alrighty.

The PS4 Pro and Xbox X are like another Slim model but a bit more powerful than originally. I don't see the problem with it as long as it doesn't affect the original owners and in the process, allows the more powerful machines to enhance the performance of games if possible.

For me PS4 Pro is the definitive PS4 to get but the normal one (Slim, or even the original) aren't bad either.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Pluupy said:


> Who the *hell* spends $130 on a blu ray drive? What the fuck are you gonna do with a blu-ray drive in this day and age?!
> Why are you buying Windows? What kind of morons wrote this up?


Well, you can watch Blu-ray movies/shows and look into what content PS4/XO discs carry? That's my guess. Blu-ray isn't too useful outside of home media and consoles.


----------



## gnmmarechal (Jun 18, 2017)

Cha0tic said:


> Aren't you hilarious.
> 
> Ahahahahhaha let me cause you're incredible.


I know 



Spoiler



pls don't be mean or I'll cry evritim being an idiot on board is all I can do


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## gbatempfan1 (Jun 18, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> All Xbox Ones run a Win10 kernel in the background, they have been for a while.



While it runs windows kernel, it is a special build that has stripped it of certain system calls and background running services, drivers, etc. For example on a PC if you look at the services tab in task manager, and the process tab, you'll see dozens of items that won't be running on an xbox one. 

---

If anybody here is really interested in details, etc, here is the Microsoft presentation, this is back when it ran Windows 8, but essentially the same system is used for Windows 10.
"This session goes into the architecture of Xbox One, explains the different operating system(s) and their relation to Windows 8 (hint: it’s running Windows 8!), and outlines strategies for developers who want to take advantage of hardcore to-the-metal features of DirectX, whether running on Xbox One or Windows."

---

Here is an article summarizing the presentation if you don't want to watch it or view the slides:
“windows 8 that has gone on a massive massive diet…… lean and mean windows 8”.  "All the Direct X draw calls go straight from the Exclusive OS down to the Host OS. It does not go through the full windows 8 ‘ shared partition’."

----

If PCworld ran that special build of windows on their first attempt, if that gpu and processor are about equivalent to what they are using by Microsoft, then they would of gotten a lot similar performance.  Of course there are tweaks that can be done on the hardware when you want to drop legacy PC support, like using a newer standard for the north/south bridge equivalents like what the PS4 does, which can make things differ even further. I haven't looked deep on how Xbox One (or this new xbox does things if that was released), but here is an overview of how the xbox one does the bridges/uncore.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 18, 2017)

gbatempfan1 said:


> While it runs windows kernel, it is a special build that has stripped it of certain system calls and background running services, drivers, etc. For example on a PC if you look at the services tab in task manager, and the process tab, you'll see dozens of items that won't be running on an xbox one.
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


Everyone knows this. The question was why the build includes a Windows license, and the answer is that playing Windows games requires a Windows kernel, so you need Windows installed. The amount of services running or the features available is irrelevant to the question. As for results, they would be significantly different even on identical kernels as the Xbox One X includes hardware-based DX unavailable on PC, uses shared GDDR5 memory unavailable on PC as system memory and implements features of VEGA GPU's which are currently only present on the latest Macbooks as far as I know. The hardware is heavily customised, this was touched upon earlier.


----------



## 3DSPoet (Jun 18, 2017)

That kind of sums it up, really.  Consoles may be built on standard PC parts these days, but the hardware is highly specialized for specific purposes, everything is configured and optimized to the tasks specific to the console.

When you're building a PC based on the specs of a console, you have to remember that the PC has to run a lot of basic tasks that are "unnecessary" to the console's system to get the same result.  To that same point, to get the same performance as a console on a PC, the PC specs will have to be somewhat higher end. (In most cases).  It's harder to see in today's consoles because they look like PCs...but go back and compare specs on say an old PSX vs. the computers at the time...or even the SuperNES vs. old 386/486/Pentium systems.


----------



## Costello (Jun 18, 2017)

pustal said:


> Wasn't that one of the sell points of the PS3 at launch?


not entirely sure, and besides the PS3 pricing was $600 at launch


----------



## OliverWinstontin (Jun 18, 2017)

Well I don't think you need a super amazing CPU to out perform the Jaguar cores from AMD. I would be surprised if even an Intel Pentium G4560 from Intel at $65 would out perform it. One it was based off bulldozer so the 8 cores share resources and Jaguar was a low power version of bulldozer so even at 8 cores wasn't an impressive chip. 

Second I think that the GPU is probably based off an RX480 not a RX580. While very similar the RX580 is supposedly closer to 6.5Tflops compared to the 6 of the RX480.  I have seen RX480's go for $199 or lower on multiple occasions doing a quick search on slickdeals. I saw one as low as $150 and some of these also came with a game like Doom etc. 

Not sure you should include an OS when Microsoft is able to gift themselves the OS for free as they use Windows 10 on Xbox One. Though you would need an OS to run your computer. 

Technically you only need 4GB's of system Ram in a PC to match it as the Xbox one uses 9GB's of memory for gaming and 3GB's for the OS. 

Shipping cost seems kind of ridiculous because if you order an XBox One X on anything but amazon you would be paying shipping costs for it as well but you could also buy your PC parts on amazon to get free prime shipping. 

I will admit though the Xbox One X is a pretty good value at $500. It also I believe comes with a controller something not listed in the spec builds for the PC. Though I think 500 watts for most of those build is pretty high. Could of probably used a 350W or 400W for a build like this pretty easily I would imagine. Most PC gamers and builders also usually have spare hard drives, Computer Cases, Power Supplies, Ram etc. I have a closet full of spare parts and at least 3 spare computers from previous builds right now. And I imagine most everyone that builds their own computers are in the same spot. I know all of my PC building friends are.


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## Joe88 (Jun 18, 2017)

Costello said:


> not entirely sure, and besides the PS3 pricing was $600 at launch


more that the first blu-ray players cost $1000 back in 2006


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## Psionic Roshambo (Jun 18, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> more that the first blu-ray players cost $1000 back in 2006



The launch PS3's cost something like 1200 dollars to produce and where sold at an insane loss. 

I think this Xbox 1X is being sold at a loss too but I would place it at closer to like 700 bucks to make? (A literal wild guess on my part with so little info to go on.)  With that price rapidly falling as TSMC starts cranking out those chips in mass. 

I don't think anyone will ever try to make that expensive of a console ever again, unless they do not learn from history.


----------



## SaffronXL (Jun 18, 2017)

The PCs have 16GB total ram so not quite a 1:1 comparison, and I'm sure AMD has created a nicely discounted custom chip solution, so I'm sure MS is getting a much better price and not taking a loss. The specs are impressive, but without software optimized to take advantage of it, probably isn't very useful.


----------



## smf (Jun 18, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> Who the *hell* spends $130 on a blu ray drive? What the fuck are you gonna do with a blu-ray drive in this day and age?!
> Why are you buying Windows? What kind of morons wrote this up?



The reason I would consider switching from PS to XB is because of the 4k UHD bluray player. So I would need a UHD bluray drive, windows 10 and a UHD bluray player software.



SaffronXL said:


> The PCs have 16GB total ram so not quite a 1:1 comparison, and I'm sure AMD has created a nicely discounted custom chip solution, so I'm sure MS is getting a much better price and not taking a loss.



Even if they sell it at the cost of parts then they are still making a loss if it doesn't cover all their overheads. Also the $500 you buy the console for doesn't all go to microsoft anyway.
The article is only comparing the retail price of a console to the retail prices of all the parts, which doesn't help you figure out whether they are selling at a loss. You also don't know whether the parts you are buying for a self build (graphics card, cpu etc) has been sold at a loss somewhere along the line.


----------



## smf (Jun 18, 2017)

OliverWinstontin said:


> Not sure you should include an OS when Microsoft is able to gift themselves the OS for free as they use Windows 10 on Xbox One.



You can argue that they are gifting it to you, but they had to pay to develop it. They can't refuse to pay for the buildings, staff etc to keep costs down. Calculating the per console cost to microsoft would be hard, but this article isn't about microsoft cost. It's about comparing retail xbox one x price, to building something equivalent. So you need to include an OS or it isn't equivalent.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jun 18, 2017)

Costello said:


> not entirely sure, and besides the PS3 pricing was $600 at launch


was $1000 here no BS


----------



## Qtis (Jun 18, 2017)

If this was possible to convert to a Win 10 machine with ok capabilities, it would sell like hot cakes. I don't really need an Xbox One S/X, but I would most likely buy one if it was capable of normal computing in the rare event I would need it. Hell, it could even be just to replace the noisy PS3 phat as my Netflix player in our bedroom TV


----------



## UncleHeffy (Jun 18, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.



It's still worthless. I can upgrade my PC, I can't upgrade an Xbox.

Also, most if not all exclusive games for Xbox can be played on Windows 10. Not to mention every 3rd party game.

Sorry, Microsoft. You're just not needed in the console department.


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## Exaltys (Jun 18, 2017)

The breadth of what you can do on a PC beats it out. Even just looking at gaming only, you have such an extensive older library not even counting emulation.


----------



## Du'Islingr (Jun 18, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Pff Amatures! I got a better system for rougly 530$, (OEM license from a REDDIT place) I could have choosen another CPU, for 30$ more and got an 8 core instead of a 6 core. However the speed on the 6 core was a lot faster than the 8 core so it would have evened out.
> Then again, these people aren't selling at a loose profit. So yeah, it's perfectly possible to build a system close to the specs of the Xbox One. Of course I don't know how much the parts will cost around the release of the Xbox One X.
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XXQNwV
> ...


Thing is it lacks 2 cores and the xbox has a lot more vram so a 580 8gb version is better. however i still can build similar specs for 570 roughly especially if i instead get an 8320E at my local microcenter which i can get for 80 bucks


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## Sizednochi (Jun 18, 2017)

The XbonerX doesn't even run native 4k, it's all upscaled with checkerboarding and 30 fps like the PS4 Pro. An RX 580 probably leaves it in the dust, specially with that craptastic CPU that's unchanged. It'll be fun to see benchmarks when it's out. Mostly for Microsoft's lies.



3DSPoet said:


> When you're building a PC based on the specs of a console, you have to remember that the PC has to run a lot of basic tasks that are "unnecessary" to the console's system to get the same result.  To that same point, to get the same performance as a console on a PC, the PC specs will have to be somewhat higher end. (In most cases).  It's harder to see in today's consoles because they look like PCs...but go back and compare specs on say an old PSX vs. the computers at the time...or even the SuperNES vs. old 386/486/Pentium systems.


Like you said, this doesn't apply anymore. Back then consoles had full custom hardware, but now they're just stripped down, underpowered PCs - underclocked because of thermal and power issues. And they also have to run a ton of processes in the background like the operating system (They even run customized PC OSs now...) and all the store/streaming stuff. So a PC with the same configuration will beat a console by default simply because of better cooling so it doesn't need to be underclocked.


----------



## chartube12 (Jun 18, 2017)

BlackWizzard17 said:


> Link to interview?



Here you go lazy bones. Two second google search. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ne-x-price-explanation-phil-spencer-e3-2017-6


----------



## netovsk (Jun 18, 2017)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> The launch PS3's cost something like 1200 dollars to produce and where sold at an insane loss.
> 
> I think this Xbox 1X is being sold at a loss too but I would place it at closer to like 700 bucks to make? (A literal wild guess on my part with so little info to go on.)  With that price rapidly falling as TSMC starts cranking out those chips in mass.
> 
> I don't think anyone will ever try to make that expensive of a console ever again, unless they do not learn from history.



Development and engineering costs trickle down to console price and would have to be naive to think they spent less than a couple hundreds of millions developing this.


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Jun 18, 2017)

netovsk said:


> Development and engineering costs trickle down to console price and would have to be naive to think they spent less than a couple hundreds of millions developing this.



Billions just to do die shrinks but TSMC kinda spreads that out to all kinds of chips.... AMD doing the design work? Who knows how much it cost but hundreds of millions probably falls laughably short. Lucky for us a lot of work gets recycled from other products.


----------



## netovsk (Jun 18, 2017)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Billions just to do die shrinks but TSMC kinda spreads that out to all kinds of chips.... AMD doing the design work? Who knows how much it cost but hundreds of millions probably falls laughably short. Lucky for us a lot of work gets recycled from other products.



Yeah I played safe there.


----------



## SpiffyJUNIOR (Jun 18, 2017)

Eh,my two cents: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rGLNwV


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## Lodad (Jun 18, 2017)

Unless we were given the ability to play the new games designed for this revision of the XBOX One on a PC, or if we were able to run a desktop OS on the new console, they should NOT be compared to one another at all. Nor should you be encouraged to look at the on-paper numbers of this console and say, "Oh, baby - this is SO much more betterer than any PC I could build for the same price, and so much cheaper than any PC I could build with the same specs." They don't do the same things, so be intelligent and don't buy into this crap.


----------



## CallmeBerto (Jun 19, 2017)

Lodad said:


> Unless we were given the ability to play the new games designed for this revision of the XBOX One on a PC, or if we were able to run a desktop OS on the new console, they should NOT be compared to one another at all. Nor should you be encouraged to look at the on-paper numbers of this console and say, "Oh, baby - this is SO much more betterer than any PC I could build for the same price, and so much cheaper than any PC I could build with the same specs." They don't do the same things, so be intelligent and don't buy into this crap.



F* THIS!!!!!

The whole PC VS console thing has always been silly for the reasons stated.


----------



## Social_Outlaw (Jun 19, 2017)

I think they're going to keep this generation going for a long time (despite what other people say) until Next gen hardware becomes cheaper in the near future because I think nobody is going to go for a console that cost more than 500+.There's no way that this could be 4k (with that price) without sacrificing something. I Speculated that it probably would be 500 bucks, but to good to be true came in mind. I wish Microsoft well but I know it's a lost on their end so enjoy 8th gen while you still can lol.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2017)

Sizednochi said:


> The XbonerX doesn't even run native 4k, it's all upscaled with checkerboarding and 30 fps like the PS4 Pro. An RX 580 probably leaves it in the dust, specially with that craptastic CPU that's unchanged. It'll be fun to see benchmarks when it's out. Mostly for Microsoft's lies.
> 
> 
> Like you said, this doesn't apply anymore. Back then consoles had full custom hardware, but now they're just stripped down, underpowered PCs - underclocked because of thermal and power issues. And they also have to run a ton of processes in the background like the operating system (They even run customized PC OSs now...) and all the store/streaming stuff. So a PC with the same configuration will beat a console by default simply because of better cooling so it doesn't need to be underclocked.


...except both the PS4 and the Xbox are fully customised. By your standards the Wii is a Mac.


----------



## Costello (Jun 19, 2017)

Lodad said:


> Unless we were given the ability to play the new games designed for this revision of the XBOX One on a PC, or if we were able to run a desktop OS on the new console, they should NOT be compared to one another at all. Nor should you be encouraged to look at the on-paper numbers of this console and say, "Oh, baby - this is SO much more betterer than any PC I could build for the same price, and so much cheaper than any PC I could build with the same specs." They don't do the same things, so be intelligent and don't buy into this crap.


I say they should be compared.
They play the same games. It is normal to compare them to be able to tell which of them (a $500 PC or the XB1X) will have the best graphic rendering. May not matter to you, but it does to some people. You can't just dismiss everyone else's opinion and impose your own just 'because'.

Now personally like I have said twice before in this thread, I doubt a lot of people would be able to tell the difference between either. At this level of detail, frame rate, resolution, presented with screenshots or videos I wouldnt be able to tell you which version looks best. Just like PS4 vs XB1 comparison videos, I usually cant see any difference.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 19, 2017)

Costello said:


> I say they should be compared.
> They play the same games. It is normal to compare them to be able to tell which of them (a $500 PC or the XB1X) will have the best graphic rendering. May not matter to you, but it does to some people. You can't just dismiss everyone else's opinion and impose your own just 'because'.
> 
> Now personally like I have said twice before in this thread, I doubt a lot of people would be able to tell the difference between either. At this level of detail, frame rate, resolution, presented with screenshots or videos I wouldnt be able to tell you which version looks best. Just like PS4 vs XB1 comparison videos, I usually cant see any difference.


On the other side, the difference is night and day. Between shadow quality, lighting, tessellation.. Frame rate... Resolution. I can say that I definitely notice.


----------



## XC-3730C (Jun 19, 2017)

What would be a good PC case that actually looks like a console for a PC like this?


----------



## Lodad (Jun 19, 2017)

Costello said:


> I say they should be compared.
> They play the same games. It is normal to compare them to be able to tell which of them (a $500 PC or the XB1X) will have the best graphic rendering. May not matter to you, but it does to some people. You can't just dismiss everyone else's opinion and impose your own just 'because'.
> 
> Now personally like I have said twice before in this thread, I doubt a lot of people would be able to tell the difference between either. At this level of detail, frame rate, resolution, presented with screenshots or videos I wouldnt be able to tell you which version looks best. Just like PS4 vs XB1 comparison videos, I usually cant see any difference.



I do understand what you are saying about them playing the same games. They are functionally the same games in mechanics, storyline narrative, etc, but are developed for different user-environments. If they were exactly the same game, you could buy one copy of any game and put it into whatever piece of hardware, PC or console, and play it.

The PC game, as long as it's not a port from a console version, is made to be graphically customized because of the staggering array of hardware configurations (there are most likely millions of combinations of hardware configuration that could result in a $500 PC, like spending $300 on a GFX card and $200 on the rest of the PC). Console games are locked to the hardware limits the devs can push the console to, customization is not a factor, and some graphical features are lessened to a great extent or completely absent.

If someone's not able to tell the difference, there really shouldn't be a point to tell them to compare spec sheets seeing how they can't compare the end result.

The only opinion I am presenting is that it's wrong to make these comparisons of hardware that function differently on top of having different target audiences. Someone who buys an XB1X shouldn't have the mentality of "Wow I just bought a $500 gaming console that's worth an X dollar amount PC, what a smart purchase, imagine what I can do with this vs. that," - because that's not how it works. This seems like fanboy flame war fuel propagated by a M$ shill (not you, PCWorld) to me.

EDIT: Also, this is just a cheap way of basically lying about the quality of the performance. They're just listing parts builds, and are NOT able to run a desktop OS on the XB1X to compare performance, or able to run the XBOX One games on a PC to make this article anything more than a pile of BS.


----------



## OrGoN3 (Jun 19, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Pff Amatures! I got a better system for rougly 530$, (OEM license from a REDDIT place) I could have choosen another CPU, for 30$ more and got an 8 core instead of a 6 core. However the speed on the 6 core was a lot faster than the 8 core so it would have evened out.
> Then again, these people aren't selling at a loose profit. So yeah, it's perfectly possible to build a system close to the specs of the Xbox One. Of course I don't know how much the parts will cost around the release of the Xbox One X.
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XXQNwV
> ...


Sorry but you're still not going to get the same performance on Windows 10 as you would on a version of Windows made specifically, and only, for gaming. How do you think the PS4 and XBone look so nice yet aren't very powerful? Your build is similar, but XBOneX will play games more efficiently and just overall better. What kills your build is the 4GB of VRAM.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Jun 19, 2017)

UltraHurricane said:


> i'm still hard press to find anyone that actually used the SACD function on the early models


The people who dump the 1-bit DSD data off the Super Audio Compact Discs with Yellow Dog...


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## Hanafuda (Jun 19, 2017)

Gets!!


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## xelrix (Jun 19, 2017)

OrGoN3 said:


> Sorry but you're still not going to get the same performance on Windows 10 as you would on a version of Windows made specifically, and only, for gaming. How do you think the PS4 and XBone look so nice yet aren't very powerful? Your build is similar, but XBOneX will *play games more efficiently and just overall better*. What kills your build is the 4GB of VRAM.


Nice anecdotes you have there, but gaming on pc is more efficient and overall better. Native 4k vs upscaled 4k, 60fps vs 30fps.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lodad said:


> I do understand what you are saying about them playing the same games. They are functionally the same games in mechanics, storyline narrative, etc, but are developed for different user-environments. If they were exactly the same game, you could buy one copy of any game and put it into whatever piece of hardware, PC or console, and play it.
> 
> The PC game, as long as it's not a port from a console version, is made to be graphically customized because of the staggering array of hardware configurations (there are most likely millions of combinations of hardware configuration that could result in a $500 PC, like spending $300 on a GFX card and $200 on the rest of the PC). Console games are locked to the hardware limits the devs can push the console to, customization is not a factor, and some graphical features are lessened to a great extent or completely absent.
> 
> ...


Most graphical customization are just textures. Compatibility are mostly drivers, which is not maintained by game devs.


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## CannonFoddr (Jun 19, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.


OK I'll make a start....

PC's are easily upgradable..
 the xB1x will probably be underpowered in a few months time, while PC's can have parts changed to keep up with latest technology


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 19, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.


why would we need to make an excuse on a shit under powered console that won't do 4k/60 native properly (your dreaming if you think it will) has no exclusives, a ripoff online system that's full of tweens cracking fuck your mom jokes when i can play ALL it's games on the PC faster, better, stronger AND FREE online? now if you'll excuse me ima go spend $3k upgrading my pc to a
ryzen 1800x, asus crosshair VI hero, evga 1080 ti ftw3, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4 2666MHz ram and watch it *SHIT ALL over* the ROBOT 1-X! it's called having a great job and buying wat eva da fuk i want


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## Firion Hope (Jun 19, 2017)

Someone's probably pointed this out, but I'm pretty sure the Original Xbox was also more powerful than any custom built PC of the time.

Also for OS you could use Linux, it'd still have more games than Xbone X (though realistically if you're gaming you want Windows anyway)


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## XC-3730C (Jun 19, 2017)

Firion Hope said:


> Someone's probably pointed this out, but I'm pretty sure the Original Xbox was also more powerful than any custom built PC of the time.
> 
> Also for OS you could use Linux, it'd still have more games than Xbone X (though realistically if you're gaming you want Windows anyway)


Yes,  and Original Xbox is still thinking of emulator consoles.  It is still being worked on to this day. 

I would want a powerful PC $500 orvundervfor Hyperspin at 1080p or even 4K. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## choupette (Jun 19, 2017)

Costello said:


> PCWorld have tried, and apparently the answer is a big *NO*.
> 
> View attachment 90400
> 
> ...



There are three very important things to note though :
1) do the same price check when the console's out for real.
2) do the same price check one year after the console's out.
3) do the same price check two years after the console's out.

and finally, WTH would you want a $500 gaming pc, I don't think many people would consider possible to have a decent gaming pc for that price tag, and consoles are great at that price, it has never been about raw power, especially since it will never compare to real gaming pc (that will always be more expensive) and any edge it may have on a gaming pc will not last long. Well, in any word what a waste of time from PC World ^^'


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## Deleted User (Jun 19, 2017)

Costello said:


> *for the first time in the history of gaming, a console may be more powerful than a custom built computer of the same price tag *at the time of its release*!*



Did everyone just forget about the Playstation 3?


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## Costello (Jun 19, 2017)

nathancnsnipe said:


> Did everyone just forget about the Playstation 3?


you obviously havent read the discussion here, it has been mentioned several pages ago


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## rileysrjay (Jun 19, 2017)

Bladexdsl said:


> why would we need to make an excuse on a shit under powered console that won't do 4k/60 native properly (your dreaming if you think it will) has no exclusives, a ripoff online system that's full of tweens cracking fuck your mom jokes when i can play ALL it's games on the PC faster, better, stronger AND FREE online? now if you'll excuse me ima go spend $3k upgrading my pc to a
> ryzen 1800x, asus crosshair VI hero, evga 1080 ti ftw3, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4 2666MHz ram and watch it *SHIT ALL over* the ROBOT 1-X! it's called having a great job and buying wat eva da fuk i want


Geez, can people seriously not take a joke on this forum? I've had 3-4 people responding saying I'm an idiot pretty much.


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## Spider_Man (Jun 19, 2017)

wasnt the same said about the PS3 chip when it first came out that it was the most powerful one at the time and for its size and why people were using multiple ps3 consoles running linux as servers, which claims part of the controversy when sony removed it.

which was always a ? to me because claims of military using them seemed questionable but if true then they wouldnt be using them as a gaming console so wouldnt need to update the console firmware.


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## TheTechGenius (Jun 19, 2017)

There is a reason for that. Microsoft has a contract with the hardware manufactures, like AMD, so they are getting the parts much much cheaper then retail price, therefore they can sell the console much cheaper. Besides, most of the time they sell consoles cheaper then they cost and actually take a loss on the profits. Because the 1st party games and Xbox Live subscription make up the difference.

They know damn well if they sell it any higher then what they are, they won't sell many consoles at all. 

The PC market is different, Nvidia can sell a high end graphics card for $700, and people will buy it no matter what, because PC gaming is not cheap, we spend thousands of dollars on PC gaming. Well most of us or some of us any way. 

If Microsoft would buy their parts retail, to build their consoles, then they would have to sell the consoles for double of what they are now. 

You also have to understand, The price of the OS should not be included when your building a PC that is better then an Xbox one. Because Microsoft has their own OS. 

And if your talking about price to performance, you can build a PC for about $700 that will out perform the Xbox one probably by double the performance.


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## VartioArtel (Jun 19, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Well, the obvious answer to that is this. The console is still much weaker than your average PC gamer's PC, and has much less utility.
> 
> This thing is still completely locked down, and games will never drop in price like PC games do.


I was just thinking this. I mean the XB1X's graphics card is closer in power to a GTX 1060 or so I've heard. Cheapest 1060 on Newegg's about 220.

I think another big thing is despite all the 'high numbers' on a console, their actual output is roughly 2/3rds of what they would be on a legit market release: like a 12GB GRAM Card would be closer to a 8 GB GRAM card in power.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 19, 2017)

As much hope as I have for this system? It's going to be underpowered in comparison to what PC gaming can do. Over the next few years, games will slowly degrade just to be playable at the 4k it offers. Also, it's still just a console. $500 to just play games and have 4k video playback? Eh. I may be picking it up if the Ui isn't as sluggish.


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## jinzokami (Jun 19, 2017)

what's the point of an optical drive on a gaming PC, anyway? you could've knocked the price down $130 if that boondoggle weren't there.


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## Sketchy1 (Jun 19, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Can't wait to see the PC Master race group's excuse for this is going to be. It's gonna be gold.



Meh, seems like there selling at a loss to try and sway customers from the old Xbox one/ attract new customers

But I guess a PC racer or whatnot would just say it's simply predatory pricing, and that a good gaming PC wouldn't be able to be created for that price, and let's not forget the fact that companies would get these parts for WAY cheaper then what we pay for the same parts anyway.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jinzokami said:


> what's the point of an optical drive on a gaming PC, anyway? you could've knocked the price down $130 if that boondoggle weren't there.



Actually, not including it would've made the price inaccurate. The point of this was to try and build a PC that either met or surpassed the Xbox specs for <=$500

By NOT including a 4k blu-ray drive then the xb1x would have immediately won by default, because it's optical drive surpassed your PC's drive

But don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you stupid or anything like that, because what your thinking of is more economical, which is good because most of gamers prefer to download games anyway.


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## grossaffe (Jun 19, 2017)

Sketchy1 said:


> Actually, not including it would've made the price inaccurate. The point of this was to try and build a PC that either met or surpassed the Xbox specs for <=$500
> 
> By NOT including a 4k blu-ray drive then the xb1x would have immediately won by default, because it's optical drive surpassed your PC's drive
> 
> But don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you stupid or anything like that, because what your thinking of is more economical, which is good because most of gamers prefer to download games anyway.


The exercise is making a gaming PC to compete with the XBOX.  Optical drive is not needed to compete on that front.


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## Necron (Jun 19, 2017)

Costello said:


> PCWorld have tried, and apparently the answer is a big *NO*.
> 
> View attachment 90400
> 
> ...


I feel like they could have cut down costs with a 1050Ti (which goes around $130 and pretty much runs everything at [email protected]~~60fps), smaller PSU due to the lower consumption on the 1050ti and use Windows 10 unactivated, which brings that to close to $490. Being a on a budget I'd be pretty happy with that lol.


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## Byokugen (Jun 19, 2017)

But! A Big Butt!
If you buy something for 500$, later,  you can upgrade it. That xbox? Nah, when they release something else, nonuograde, replacement.


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## Sketchy1 (Jun 20, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> The exercise is making a gaming PC to compete with the XBOX.  Optical drive is not needed to compete on that front.




Op, first sentence:

"In an attempt to create a custom built computer with specifications matching exactly those of the newly revealed Xbox One X"

Not including the drive wouldn't be it's exact specs


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## grossaffe (Jun 20, 2017)

Sketchy1 said:


> Op, first sentence:
> 
> "In an attempt to create a custom built computer with specifications matching exactly those of the newly revealed Xbox One X"
> 
> Not including the drive wouldn't be it's exact specs


Also in the first sentence:
*"for the first time in the history of gaming, a console may be more powerful than a custom built computer of the same price tag *at the time of its release*!"*
If you're checking if the console is more powerful than a custom PC can be built at the same price-point, then matching exact specifications is not the name of the game.  It's whether or not a more powerful PC can be built for that same price-tag.  A Blu Ray drive does not contribute to the power of a PC.  Just as, say, having the Kinect has no bearing on the power of a PC.  It may have been included in the XBone, but if one were to attempt to prove the XBone is more powerful than a custom PC of the same price, one would not be expected to include it into the pricetag of the PC as the Kinect is irrelevant to its power.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 20, 2017)

Basically a PC doesn't need the same exact specs to have the same performance. With less specs it could still beat your XB1X. See the Potato Masher Pro. For $400, you beat the PS4 Pro with the only modern part being a GTX 1060. The rest includes a Lynnfield i7 (yeah, first-gen).


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## kevin corms (Jun 20, 2017)

you cant buy an xbox one x yet either, pc part prices come down all the time and afterr the xbox one x is on the market it wont seem like as good a deal as it does now.


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## geodeath (Jun 20, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Well, the obvious answer to that is this. The console is still much weaker than your average PC gamer's PC, and has much less utility.
> 
> This thing is still completely locked down, and games will never drop in price like PC games do.



Games will never drop in price like PC games do? I have such a big back catalog of games to play (including retro) so by the time i buy a 'new' game it is already discounted heavily even 2 or 3 months down the road, let alone a year or 2. Games from a couple of years back are easily £5-10, even great, solid games. In fact, i do not remember spending more than £20 on any PS4 game ever since it's launch apart from Uncharted, because i wanted it on release day. On any given day, i am paying between £5-20 a game.

As for even older games, X360 games and PS3 games are £2 and £3 each and we are talking about physical releases with covert art and everything.

As for how much weaker it is going to be... i disagree, while it will not be the best box there is, i have seen a vast percentage of gamers do not use the best specs but rather settle for something that works and does not break the bank. After all, what you gain with PC releases is the ability to tune to 'fit' your hardware.

The obvious advantage of the PC is the utility of it, you can do pretty much everything, not just play games and of course the incredible library of games you can play, if they are still compatible of course (if not re-released).

Recent example - came across Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and although i had no clue on whether a good game or not, it was £7 new and sealed in my local super market (lol).


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## codezer0 (Jun 20, 2017)

It doesn't help that digital mining on a video card is a thing again, so people are snapping up every Rx 4/5*0 they can find, inflating the price to the gaming performance of these cards. At the prices some are selling their 480 and 580 cards now? It would be better to get a 1070 for way more performance, or save a ton by getting a 6gb GTX 1060.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Basically a PC doesn't need the same exact specs to have the same performance. With less specs it could still beat your XB1X. See the Potato Masher Pro. For $400, you beat the PS4 Pro with the only modern part being a GTX 1060. The rest includes a Lynnfield i7 (yeah, first-gen).


I'll take your word on that and believe it but comparing consoles to PC is a moot point. PS4 offers exclusives you can't get anywhere else and same can go for PC as well but moreso consoles, as console-exclusives tend to be kept exclusive to one or the other brand so you have to buy A or B's console to play their games.

Mario Kart 8 for example is available on two systems but they're both by Nintendo. Yes, you can play it on PC via Cemu but that's unofficially.

This comparison of "Can you build a PC like Xbox X and as cheap?" seems pretty dumb, imo.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Jun 20, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I'll take your word on that and believe it but comparing consoles to PC is a moot point. PS4 offers exclusives you can't get anywhere else and same can go for PC as well but moreso consoles, as console-exclusives tend to be kept exclusive to one or the other brand so you have to buy A or B's console to play their games.
> 
> Mario Kart 8 for example is available on two systems but they're both by Nintendo. Yes, you can play it on PC via Cemu but that's unofficially.
> 
> This comparison of "Can you build a PC like Xbox X and as cheap?" seems pretty dumb, imo.


Except PS Now will soon allow playing PS4 games on PC.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 20, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Except PS Now will soon allow playing PS4 games on PC.


That's still coming? Wonderful.


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## GamerzHell9137 (Jun 20, 2017)

Bravo! It only shows how Microsoft is ahead of the time than their competition. I had high hopes from the start when Spencer came as the main dude of the Xbox Divisio n.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 20, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> Except PS Now will soon allow playing PS4 games on PC.



You mean streaming... Which at this point means nothing for the hardcore.


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## codezer0 (Jun 20, 2017)

Memoir said:


> You mean streaming... Which at this point means nothing for the hardcore.


In large part because you're just renting the games until Sony flips out and you're banned.


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## brickmii82 (Jun 20, 2017)

I think the PC should have a 200$ stipend due to utility and other uses. You can get a decent dual-core and sometimes quad-core for that price with built in graphics. So can you build for 700$ ?? I think so. Consoles are aimed at target consumer groups. The XBX seems to be targeted at the graphics elitist. But PC beats out all consoles in that area already and still. I think it's bad strategy considering past trends. The lower priced console has outsold the higher priced during current and last gen sales. A better investment would've been to streamline production for the XB1S and get msrp to 200$. They'd sell 5-10 million more at that price. They'll be lucky if this breaks 5 million I bet. Too expensive for the console market.


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## Deleted User (Jun 21, 2017)

personally i hate microsoft (they once prevented me from using the word linux in a gamertag I was like wow)  and I had like 3 360's fail.  But looking at the specs I am buying one.  Now I plan on putting it in a drawer for a very long time (lol).  But in my view this will one day be the ultimo dragon of hacked consoles.  Personally all the microsoft games I want are on PC.  So I am not interested in their games.  Just me.  But imagine this thing running homebrew!


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## McWhiters9511 (Jun 21, 2017)

a few hundred extra bucks is worth the wider and longer support imo


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 23, 2017)

Wasn't the Gamecube more powerful than a 200€ PC of it's time?


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 23, 2017)

McWhiters9511 said:


> a few hundred extra bucks is worth the wider and longer support imo


damn right


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## elBenyo (Jun 23, 2017)

We can all stop now as it's already been done.     https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XqYrQV


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 24, 2017)

and that setup will still be BETTER


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## smf (Jun 24, 2017)

brickmii82 said:


> I think the PC should have a 200$ stipend due to utility and other uses.



You're changing the rules. It's not about whether an xbox one makes a good pc, but whether a pc can make a good xbox one for the same price.

If you want a PC then get a PC.



elBenyo said:


> We can all stop now as it's already been done.     https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XqYrQV



That case is fugly. Come back when you've priced it up for a media centre case.

Still no OS? Do you expect me to run something as horrible as linux/bsd etc?


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## Deleted User (Jun 24, 2017)

I don't think they're selling at loss. This is what agreements with other companies and buying in bulk are for. By doing both they get huge discounts on components.
You can build a PC with the same or less money, but you'll have to buy used parts (or scavenge for free, like a case, PSU and fans) and watch ebay and whatnot to get the best prices. That's why computers are good, since you can always reuse most parts of a previous build and upgrade whenever you want, while with consoles you have to wait for a new release and end up paying more. And I'm not even going to talk about the price of games (assuming piracy isn't involved). PC and consoles shouldn't be compared, tho.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> That case is fugly. Come back when you've priced it up for a media centre case.


We're not discussing looks here, but pricing. I bet that case is more robust than the plastic most modern consoles offer, and you can always make a case yourself.


smf said:


> Still no OS? Do you expect me to run something as horrible as linux/bsd etc?


Mint Linux is really easy to install, it's pretty out of the box and you can customize every aspect of it. Or you could install Steam OS or XBMC.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 24, 2017)

smf said:


> That case is fugly.


it matches the 1-x than


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jun 24, 2017)

Bladexdsl said:


> it matches the 1-x than


Are you saying PS2 is ugly? 

Curses. Can't get the emoji to show up.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 25, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Are you saying PS2 is ugly?


nope just the 1-x and it's big ass VCR case


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## Gaming796 (Jun 26, 2017)

The very specifications of the Xbox One X prove that all Microsoft does is make cut down versions of high-end PCs for a lower price. Sure the XB1X is way cheaper than it should be but specs alone mean nothing. They failed this E3 to Nintendo for this exact reason. And they failed to Sony for the past years for the same reason as well. Both the other companies know the games their fans like, unlike MS. They only give quality specs, no gimmicks at all. We want innovative games unique to the plattform, don't we? Why spend $500 on a Xbox One X rather than getting a PC which can play the same games and outperform the XB1X? Don't get me wrong, Xbox fans, this is just my opinion. Yours could be different...


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## leon315 (Jun 27, 2017)

Guys, there's no "true" exclusives for Xbox X, since almost of xbox' incoming titles are also coming for pc win 10, so there's no reason to buy it. pc mustard race has online multiplayer free of fee, supports crossplay and runs at more stable fps.

So fuck Xbox X, get SWITCH instead! The only place where you can find Mario and Co.


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