# Steam Deck or Aya Neo (Or something else)?



## Louis Miles (Aug 7, 2021)

I'm really not sure what i should do. Should I wait a year to get a Steam Deck or should I just buy an Aya Neo (or something else)?

While i'm usually console gamer, having a switch handheld like computer, that has all the advantages such as emulators and having the ability to plug the console into a TV and hook up a bluetooth controller, sounds like a great must have for me!

I really just want to play emulators on something like this, like Dolphin, Citra and Desmume HD in high resolution and stable frame rate.

After doing some research on these consoles, I think the best alternative to the Steam Deck seems to be the Aya Neo.
Even though I've done a lot of research, I still haven't been able to figure out if the Aya Neo's resolution can be increased on monitors / TVs or is it only capable of outputting 720p? And I haven't been able to find a review that shows how well Bluetooth controllers work (I hope there is no input lag)

Another strange thing is that there seem to be 2 websites that you can buy the Aya Neo, but which one is the right one? There's the "store ayaneo" page that seems to be the official one but not sure, but then there's the indiego page that, oddly enough, says it's sold out.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 7, 2021)

The Steam Deck isn't out yet so this question is impossible to answer. We don't know how good the Steam Deck is compared to something like the NEO or GPD Win 3, so we can't tell you whether you should buy it over something else. 

Price-performance wise, the Steam Deck is 100% a better investment than the NEO, you'll get a better GPU and better RAM for a _much _lower price (slightly over half off, if you decide to buy the 64GB version and use MSD cards for expansion/upgrade the storage yourself to avoid Valve's high up-charge for storage). But we still don't know a lot of in-depth details about the thing, and we have no real idea when they'll ship if you didn't grab a reservation the first hour or two when they launched last month so you will end up having to wait until like Q2 or more probably Q3 2022 if you try reserving one now. 

As for questions, yes you can set the NEOs resolution when connected to a monitor, it's a PC. It should be able to output to 4k/60hz just fine with a USB-C dock (an official one will come out eventually, but you can just buy any $20 hub and it'll be fine). 

For input lag, it'll be as good as any other BT device, it's not using any fancy special adapter just some standard Intel AX200 module. Any input lag will vary depending on interference and your controller and other such things. 

In regards to stores, this page is the correct one to order from now: https://store.ayaneo.com/products/ayaneo < The Indiegogo models are all sold out, so you have to pay the full price for them now ($900ish for the 500GB, $1000ish for the 1TB).


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## Taleweaver (Aug 8, 2021)

This kind of reminds me to the earlier days of pc gaming : "get a computer now or wait another year for a better one that's also cheaper?".

The neo certainly looks solid, I'll give you that. But as said : we can't compare to something that isn't out yet. Valve is a powerhouse, so there's hype. And if they deliver on their promise, it's a better deal price /power. But how it handles? How it plays? That's anyone's guess right now.

I'm personally ordering a deck, but it's a gamble I'm taking. I don't feel comfortable filling in the poll, as I'm talking of what I'm doing here. You really should make your own choice; I don't want to be an influence in what might end up an expensive fad. 

Best of luck on your decision. :-)


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## pcwizard7 (Aug 8, 2021)

For me, with Steam Deck with better ram and GPU, and it's cheaper + with the trackpads will make it easy to adapted strategy games that require a mouse. But the layout and size of the device is only concern for me

Plus depend on how deep the m.2 slot is will make a storage upgrade a possibility


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## Xzi (Aug 8, 2021)

No contest, Steam Deck has better/newer hardware and comes in at about half the price.  Linus compares the two in his hands-on video released yesterday:



About 8:30 in he starts the comparison.  For a game like DOOM Eternal you're looking at nearly twice the FPS on Steam Deck (with the same graphics settings).  RDNA 2 blows Vega out of the water.  The only area where Aya Neo has a slight advantage is thickness, but honestly neither is pocketable so you might as well go for the more comfortable grips.


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## Kwyjor (Aug 8, 2021)

Louis Miles said:


> I really just want to play emulators on something like this, like Dolphin, Citra and Desmume HD in high resolution and stable frame rate.


So you want to get one just so you can play all the games you have already been playing? Why would you expect this to alter the experience?


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## Xzi (Aug 8, 2021)

Kwyjor said:


> So you want to get one just so you can play all the games you have already been playing? Why would you expect this to alter the experience?


More powerful hardware means you can run newer emulators for newer systems, it also allows you to pump up the internal resolution in stuff like Dolphin.  So in terms of performance, visuals, and compatibility, yes it alters the experience.  That's just relative to other portables/handhelds of course.


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## Taleweaver (Aug 8, 2021)

Kwyjor said:


> So you want to get one just so you can play all the games you have already been playing? Why would you expect this to alter the experience?


Erm... Because beter resolution and better frame rates? It's literally in the part you quoted. If you want testimonies that a better of either improves the experience, I can provide plenty.


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## Kwyjor (Aug 8, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> Erm... Because beter resolution and better frame rates?


But does better resolution really matter all that much if you're playing on a tiny screen? Also, surely these devices aren't going to have substantially better resolution and frame rates than what you can get on a standard PC, at least when it comes to emulation.  And it still doesn't change that you're probably playing the same games you've played many times already.


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## teamlocust (Aug 8, 2021)

Steam deck is the most overhyped device, but only useful for people with a huge steam library. For others, a hacker switch or a powerful cellphone is good enough for emulators.


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 8, 2021)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> The Steam Deck isn't out yet so this question is impossible to answer. We don't know how good the Steam Deck is compared to something like the NEO or GPD Win 3, so we can't tell you whether you should buy it over something else.
> 
> Price-performance wise, the Steam Deck is 100% a better investment than the NEO, you'll get a better GPU and better RAM for a _much _lower price (slightly over half off, if you decide to buy the 64GB version and use MSD cards for expansion/upgrade the storage yourself to avoid Valve's high up-charge for storage). But we still don't know a lot of in-depth details about the thing, and we have no real idea when they'll ship if you didn't grab a reservation the first hour or two when they launched last month so you will end up having to wait until like Q2 or more probably Q3 2022 if you try reserving one now.
> 
> ...


Per LTT's hands on with the Steam Deck, games perform about 50% better than the Aya Neo. Worth waiting for IMO.


Louis Miles said:


> I'm really not sure what i should do. Should I wait a year to get a Steam Deck or should I just buy an Aya Neo (or something else)?
> 
> While i'm usually console gamer, having a switch handheld like computer, that has all the advantages such as emulators and having the ability to plug the console into a TV and hook up a bluetooth controller, sounds like a great must have for me!
> 
> ...


Of course it can output higher resolutions. It's a PC. It can do anything a PC with the same CPU could.


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## pcwizard7 (Aug 8, 2021)

Kwyjor said:


> But does better resolution really matter all that much if you're playing on a tiny screen? Also, surely these devices aren't going to have substantially better resolution and frame rates than what you can get on a standard PC, at least when it comes to emulation.  And it still doesn't change that you're probably playing the same games you've played many times already.



1. when the internal res of emulator is 240-340P um yes upscale it to 720P is a worth improvement 
2. a game that would normally run 15 fps on real hardware can run 60 fps in emulator
3. yes u can do this on pc but its the idea of portable/handheld emulation device that's the appealing factor

@teamlocust 

1. you can access other stores 
2. you can install windows on it if u want too
3. a hacked switch once you get to game cube/dream cast era games, u start to get a hit or miss with games that will run or not
4. cellphone has its limits depending on the phone, you hit frame rate problems on systems around the same era as the switch

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



The Real Jdbye said:


> Per LTT's hands on with the Steam Deck, games perform about 50% better than the Aya Neo. Worth waiting for IMO.



What's the IMO?


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 8, 2021)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Per LTT's hands on with the Steam Deck, games perform about 50% better than the Aya Neo. Worth waiting for IMO.


Given LTT's recent quality of their videos, I'd take that claim with a grain of salt. How many games did they bother testing before making that 50% claim? 1? 2? 

I'm sure the RDNA 2 based iGPU will kick shitty Vega's ass, but I highly doubt it will be "about 50% better" in a lot of titles.


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 8, 2021)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Given LTT's recent quality of their videos, I'd take that claim with a grain of salt. How many games did they bother testing before making that 50% claim? 1? 2?
> 
> I'm sure the RDNA 2 based iGPU will kick shitty Vega's ass, but I highly doubt it will be "about 50% better" in a lot of titles.


As many as they could in an hour. /shrug 
We're not getting any better info until close to release. At worst it's still a significant upgrade over the Aya Neo and the comfort and controls are better too.


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## Enkuler (Aug 8, 2021)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Given LTT's recent quality of their videos, I'd take that claim with a grain of salt. How many games did they bother testing before making that 50% claim? 1? 2?
> 
> I'm sure the RDNA 2 based iGPU will kick shitty Vega's ass, but I highly doubt it will be "about 50% better" in a lot of titles.


Probably not a lot since people didn't have an infinite time to test during the event. But at least LTT came with a heat camera, a thing that detects flashes on screen to measure input lag, an Aya Neo and a Switch for comparisons, an ifixit tool kit for no reason because it was forbidden but still, and a frigging entire monitor to test video output. Meanwhile other people who came were just like "oh yes this thing plays games indeed".
So ok, can't necessarily infer general stats but these still are numbers and the lack of more numbers doesn't come from the lack of quality from LTT.


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## teamlocust (Aug 8, 2021)

@pcwizard7 
I forgot to mention the cellphone I have.. it’s the mi 11 ultra.. trust me when I tell you all dreamcast games and GameCube work flawless on it. Steam deck is bulky and not portable at all like a switch.. but yes you will justify it because you will turn around and say it is a PC. Also the battery life will be pathetic on the steam deck.. mark my words.

Steam deck is a niche device for tinkering and valve knows it.


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> I forgot to mention the cellphone I have.. it’s the mi 11 ultra.. trust me when I tell you all dreamcast games and GameCube work flawless on it.


Touchscreen controls and access to very few games outside of emulation...barf.



teamlocust said:


> Steam deck is bulky and not portable at all like a switch..


Both fit inside a case just fine, neither is pocketable.  Not to mention that joycons aren't nearly as comfortable as the Hori Splitpad Pro, which puts Switch at much closer to the same thickness as Steam Deck.  This is being pedantic.



teamlocust said:


> Also the battery life will be pathetic on the steam deck.. mark my words.


It's a 40 wHr battery, the APU draws 4 - 15 Watts.  We don't have to wait for release to do math that simple.  Just like with Switch, new AAA games will drain the battery much faster than indies.



teamlocust said:


> Steam deck is a niche device for tinkering and valve knows it.


Steam Deck can be whatever the hell you want it to be, that's the advantage of not being trapped in a walled garden.  A lot of people will use it as a straight-up gaming/entertainment console and never pull up the desktop environment once.


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## LinkmstrYT (Aug 9, 2021)

As mentioned by others, the Steam Deck is better compared to the Aya Neo. It pretty much beats it out in pricing, specs, and having Steam support services. And since the Steam Deck has overall better specs, it can also means overall better emulation. Steam Deck allows users to be able to install a different OS, like Windows, so you can get better compatibility with other games, programs, and emulators.


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

LinkmstrYT said:


> Steam Deck allows users to be able to install a different OS, like Windows, so you can get better compatibility with other games, programs, and emulators.


To be fair I'm sure you could install Arch Linux or SteamOS on Aya Neo, but the cost of a Windows license is still built-in to the MSRP so it'd almost feel like a waste.


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## nero99 (Aug 9, 2021)

if you don't care about pocketability, get a One X Player when they release their ryzen 4800u version. Perfect size screen, some of the best controls out there, has a turbo button to go from 20w to 30w, has a freaking kick stand that actually works, dual usb C 4.0 ports, one is thunderbolt 4 for e-gpu useage as well.


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## teamlocust (Aug 9, 2021)

@Xzi you do know that there are option like the raizer kaishi or ganesir attachment which negate your logic of touch screen controls. 
With a subpar screen and subpar battery life you can enjoy your portable steam deck. Barf..
For pc gaming I have my ge76 raider 3080 rtx laptop.


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @Xzi you do know that there are option like the raizer kaishi or ganesir attachment which negate your logic of touch screen controls.


At which point you're making your phone almost as large as a Switch/Steam Deck anyway, and you still have access to very few games aside from emulation.



teamlocust said:


> With a subpar screen and subpar battery life you can enjoy your portable steam deck. Barf..


1080p would be pointless on a seven inch screen, not to mention drain the battery much faster.  Why do you think Switch and every other portable PC uses a 720p screen?  And since you can't seem to do basic math yourself: minimal workloads like indie games will last 8 hours on Steam Deck, just as advertised.



teamlocust said:


> For pc gaming I have my ge76 raider 3080 rtx laptop.


Good for you.  However, just because you broke the bank on a much more expensive and much less portable gaming PC, that doesn't mean you need to talk shit about a device that's clearly got a great price-to-performance ratio and several unique features.


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## nero99 (Aug 9, 2021)

I


Xzi said:


> At which point you're making your phone almost as large as a Switch/Steam Deck anyway, and you still have access to very few games aside from emulation.
> 
> 
> 1080p would be pointless on a seven inch screen, not to mention drain the battery much faster.  Why do you think Switch and every other portable PC uses a 720p screen?  And since you can't seem to do basic math yourself: minimal workloads like indie games will last 8 hours on Steam Deck, just as advertised.
> ...


'd like to throw this out there. there's only one portable/handheld pc that uses 2,5K resolutioon iunstead of 720p, the One XPlayer. it looks so beautiful on a 8,4 inch screen


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## teamlocust (Aug 9, 2021)

@Xzi 
I am not talking shit but stating facts which you are ignoring just because......
Subpar battery life is fact, subpar battery is fact, portability is defeated instantly with battery life and yes people will lug around a powerbank for this.
The steam deck is flawed and calling it out is the right thing to do.


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @Xzi
> I am not talking shit but stating facts which you are ignoring just because......
> Subpar battery life is fact, subpar battery is fact, portability is defeated instantly with battery life and yes people will lug around a powerbank for this.
> The steam deck is flawed and calling it out is the right thing to do.


The fuck are you smoking, man?  You've never even touched the Steam Deck, let alone had time to drain its battery fully.  This is purely the sunk cost fallacy speaking.


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## DKB (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @Xzi you do know that there are option like the raizer kaishi or ganesir attachment which negate your logic of touch screen controls.
> With a subpar screen and subpar battery life you can enjoy your portable steam deck. Barf..
> For pc gaming I have my ge76 raider 3080 rtx laptop.



this is some cringe shit my dude oh my gosh


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

nero99 said:


> I'd like to throw this out there. there's only one portable/handheld pc that uses 2,5K resolutioon iunstead of 720p, the One XPlayer. it looks so beautiful on a 8,4 inch screen


Do you own one?  I'd be interested to hear how much play time AAA games provide at native resolution on that...it says 10 hours but only for video playback, on a 59 Watt-hour battery.  If we do some napkin math and assume it draws 2.5x as much power as Steam Deck at max load (it may be even more than that, they don't disclose), we're looking at about an hour and fifteen minutes.  Easiest way to extend that of course being turning down the resolution.


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## nero99 (Aug 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Do you own one?  I'd be interested to hear how much play time AAA games provide at native resolution on that...it says 10 hours but only for video playback, on a 59 Watt-hour battery.  If we do some napkin math and assume it draws 2.5x as much power as Steam Deck at max load (it may be even more than that, they don't disclose), we're looking at about an hour and fifteen minutes.  Easiest way to extend that of course being turning down the resolution.


mine will arrive by the 20th this month. I have been following a lot of videos on youtube with this device. most say that 2.5K resolution gets you about 1-2 hours of gaming at 30fps. but they also say that 1280x800 and 1920x1080p are perfect for gaming at medium to high settings in most games. I only bought one because I wanted a bigger screen than the gpd win 3 and the aya neo.


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## teamlocust (Aug 9, 2021)

@Xzi 
Clearly I am smoking something which you can't afford. And yes the steam deck battery will suck.. deal with it.
I could care less.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Cringe for you, does not mean cringe for others. I know you are upset when people write abt devices you can't afford.


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> Clearly I am smoking something which you can't afford.


Anybody can afford crack.



teamlocust said:


> And yes the steam deck battery will suck.. deal with it.


It'll have better battery life than your laptop that cost ten times as much...deal with it.


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## teamlocust (Aug 9, 2021)

@Xzi 
Crack is cheap, so you can afford it. 
Comparing a rtx 3080 laptop with supposed portable device.. yeah right.. you are smoking crack and it's cheap, so are you. Lol


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## DKB (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @Xzi
> Cringe for you, does not mean cringe for others. I know you are upset when people write abt devices you can't afford.



but i have a 3080. it's not in a laptop though lol cringe


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## teamlocust (Aug 9, 2021)

@DKB 
Yeah I understand you can't afford a laptop with rtx 3080.. lol..


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## SG854 (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @Xzi
> Crack is cheap, so you can afford it.
> Comparing a rtx 3080 laptop with supposed portable device.. yeah right.. you are smoking crack and it's cheap, so are you. Lol


Youse a cringe boi


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## DKB (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @DKB
> Yeah I understand you can't afford a laptop with rtx 3080.. lol..



not my fault you spent more money than me for worse performance lol

It's quite obvious you're not the brightest person, considering the fact that you're talking shit about a device has not even released yet. Yeah, maybe it'll suck. Whatever. I don't understand how this translated into a e-peen measuring contest with your laptop.


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## Xzi (Aug 9, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> Crack is cheap, so you can afford it.


Yeah that's what I just said...everybody can afford it.  That doesn't mean it's a good idea for you to keep smoking it.



teamlocust said:


> Comparing a rtx 3080 laptop with supposed portable device..


I was pulling my punches before, but the truth of the matter is that buying a laptop with an RTX 3080 is idiotic.  Not only because the price is astronomical, but also because it'll throttle the hell out of itself to keep from bursting into flames.  Making a good portable PC/laptop is a balancing act between thermals, power draw, and performance.  You're probably lucky to get thirty minutes of battery life at max draw, which means playing AAA games on the go is a lost cause.


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## teamlocust (Aug 10, 2021)

@DKB 
So you do agree that it may suck in terms of battery life. And yes i spend more money to buy a rtx 3080 laptop, because I can and too bad that you can't  . Good for you but don't generalize your opinion as if it's the only way money is well spent. Every one has their own needs.

@Xzi 

You can go smoke crack or tell your family to do it, I could care less. From the convo, we were having I would never compare the steam deck with rtx 3080 laptop.
You are an idiot and yes steam deck is a pathetic device primarily built for low income background people like yourself, who can't afford a decent pc.


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## SG854 (Aug 10, 2021)

I want steam deck because its affordable.

And to quote a smart wise man


teamlocust said:


> @DKB
> Good for you but don't generalize your opinion as if it's the only way money is well spent. Every one has their own needs.


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## teamlocust (Aug 10, 2021)

I agree with you, but he called others stupid because someone bought a rtx 3080 laptop, that why I called him out.


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## LinkmstrYT (Aug 10, 2021)

Sheesh, when did this get to bragging about owning a RTX 3080 laptop.


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## SG854 (Aug 10, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> I agree with you, but he called others stupid because someone bought a rtx 3080 laptop, that why I called him out.







teamlocust said:


> @Xzi With a subpar screen and subpar battery life you can enjoy your portable steam deck. Barf.


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## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> From the convo, we were having I would never compare the steam deck with rtx 3080 laptop.


Of course you wouldn't, you're pissed that you wasted so much money on what is essentially a paperweight when not tethered to a power outlet.  That doesn't stop me from mocking you for it.



teamlocust said:


> You are an idiot and yes steam deck is a pathetic device primarily built for low income background people like yourself, who can't afford a decent pc.


My GTX 1080Ti still plays games at 1440p max settings just fine, thank you.  If I'm gonna bother getting an RTX 3000 card at all, it sure as shit isn't gonna be for 3x MSRP during a chip shortage.  Overpaying for stuff is not something to be proud of.


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## teamlocust (Aug 10, 2021)

@Xzi 
Rtx 3080 laptop may be overpriced for you certainly not for me.
I definitely did not pay 3x for it.
Don't assume things simply because you can't afford it.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 10, 2021)

Steamdeck all the way IMO, with those standardized specs developers will likely target them as a baseline just like they would a console.  PC developer can look at the install base and optimize to them and probably will.


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## SG854 (Aug 10, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> @Xzi
> for you laptop may be overpriced certainly not for me Rtx 3080.
> I definitely pay 3x for it. did not
> Don't assume things you can't afford it. simply because


I re-arranged your words

I waiting in line and bored. Don't judge.


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## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> Rtx 3080 laptop may be overpriced for you certainly not for me.


Gaming laptops are always overpriced.  Even if you're a trust fund kid, that's money which could've been better spent elsewhere.  For example: buying a desktop RTX 3080 _and_ a Steam Deck, and still coming in at a lower total than what you spent on the laptop.  But yes, ultimately you're free to piss away your money on whatever you want, just don't get butthurt when others decide to spend more wisely.


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## teamlocust (Aug 10, 2021)

@Xzi 
Ah getting butthurt from a person talking abt a piece of plastic worth 700 usd.. yeah right. I understand life must be hard for you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@SG854 
Nice!! Keep editing and rearranging to your heart's content.


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## LinkmstrYT (Aug 10, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Steamdeck all the way IMO, with those standardized specs developers will likely target them as a baseline just like they would a console.  PC developer can look at the install base and optimize to them and probably will.


I heavily doubt devs would target the Steam Deck as a baseline. It's PC gaming, since when was there some sort of specs baseline for anything? Plus, I doubt it'll get big enough to make it very influential. It seems to just target a specific niche for PC gaming on the go.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 10, 2021)

LinkmstrYT said:


> I heavily doubt devs would target the Steam Deck as a baseline. It's PC gaming, since when was there some sort of specs baseline for anything? Plus, I doubt it'll get big enough to make it very influential. It seems to just target a specific niche for PC gaming on the go.



Major PC devs have always looked at the market in the modern era and made sure there stuff was optimized for the most common cards.  Classic Blizzard was notorious for this practice. If they see a user base they are going to make sure they can sell to the base.


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## SG854 (Aug 10, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Steamdeck all the way IMO, with those standardized specs developers will likely target them as a baseline just like they would a console.  PC developer can look at the install base and optimize to them and probably will.



Its not standardized the same way a Switch is. PC games aren't optimized for the speed of the expandable storage on steam deck like the switch. And there's too many competition from other PC portables to be targeted for standardization.


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## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

teamlocust said:


> Ah getting butthurt from a person talking abt a piece of plastic worth 700 usd.. yeah right. I understand life must be hard for you.


Where the hell are you getting $700 from?  The base model of Steam Deck is $400, which is less than half the price of most portable PCs.  Again, you seem to be angry that Valve would _dare_ release a device with such a great price-to-performance ratio _after_ you already blew your wad on a less-portable gaming solution, but guess what?  The world doesn't revolve around you.



LinkmstrYT said:


> I heavily doubt devs would target the Steam Deck as a baseline. It's PC gaming, since when was there some sort of specs baseline for anything? Plus, I doubt it'll get big enough to make it very influential. It seems to just target a specific niche for PC gaming on the go.


Yeah a big draw for developers is that they don't have to specifically optimize games for Steam Deck, AMD APUs are pretty much the same thing in use for PS5/XSX.  Albeit more powerful ones of course, but that's what scaling graphics settings are for.


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## SG854 (Aug 10, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Where the hell are you getting $700 from?  The base model of Steam Deck is $400, which is less than half the price of most portable PCs.  Again, you seem to be angry that Valve would _dare_ release a device with such a great price-to-performance ratio _after_ you already blew your wad on a less-portable gaming solution, but guess what?  The world doesn't revolve around you.
> 
> 
> Yeah a big draw for developers is that they don't have to specifically optimize games for Steam Deck, AMD APUs are pretty much the same thing in use for PS5/XSX.  Albeit more powerful ones of course, but that's what scaling graphics settings are for.


There's two major players in the GPU market and games arent well optimized for one specific hardware so PC's have to brute force their way to perfromance. Consoles are better optimized specifically for their hardware. And Nvdia are still the most popular brand and not all have a rdna2 card or a amd cpu, many have a intel cpu.


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## teamlocust (Aug 10, 2021)

@Xzi 
Ok so you can't even afford the nvme version of the steam deck.
Ok let me rephrase then,lol  getting butthurt by a person talking abt a piece of plastic worth 400 usd.


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## LinkmstrYT (Aug 10, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Major PC devs have always looked at the market in the modern era and made sure there stuff was optimized for the most common cards.  Classic Blizzard was notorious for this practice. If they see a user base they are going to make sure they can sell to the base.


PC hardware is always changing and growing stronger every year. With more technological advancements, the heavier games can potentially be. The Steam Deck can't upgrade its specs (outside of storage), so it'll stay at that level for the rest of its lifespan. Devs won't stay put on something like the Steam Deck, especially as it most likely wouldn't be as big as you may think it'll be in its influence.
But here's the thing with PC gaming, people can have more options to change graphical settings. Because it's a lot more flexible with PC gaming, there's kind of no "baseline" to work with considering minimum specs are just whatever the devs think and/or tested hardware where the game is playable and not too bad to look at. And considering that the Steam Deck's screen resolution is just 1280x800, it doesn't need to go full HD 1080p resolutions and can play practically any AAA games just fine, albeit at lower settings.


SG854 said:


> Its not standardized the same way a Switch is. PC games aren't optimized for the speed of the expandable storage on steam deck like the switch. And there's too many competition from other PC portables to be targeted for standardization.


That is true, too. The difference with Switch ports of games is that the games are ported with Switch hardware in mind. Its limitations and all that. AND just for one platform.


Xzi said:


> Yeah a big draw for developers is that they don't have to specifically optimize games for Steam Deck, AMD APUs are pretty much the same thing in use for PS5/XSX.  Albeit more powerful ones of course, but that's what scaling graphics settings are for.


That's basically it, yeah. There's no "baseline" technically and any PC gamer can adjust whatever graphical settings they want (with the available options a game has and more).


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 10, 2021)

FFS, this thread is about the NEO vs the Steam Deck for this specific user, not for you all to waggle your little epeens around about wasting money on a "3080 laptop" or making baseless claims about a device that's not even out yet. 

Cry all you like, but take it to PMs at this point. 


@OP, I think it's been established at this point that the Steam Deck is a better value if you can wait the year or potentially longer to spend the money, otherwise look at the Neo/GPD Win 3/OneXPlayer if you want something right now. Or save the money for something better that I'm sure will be announced by the time the Steam Deck ships.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 10, 2021)

LinkmstrYT said:


> PC hardware is always changing and growing stronger every year. With more technological advancements, the heavier games can potentially be. The Steam Deck can't upgrade its specs (outside of storage), so it'll stay at that level for the rest of its lifespan. Devs won't stay put on something like the Steam Deck, especially as it most likely wouldn't be as big as you may think it'll be in its influence.



And most games still run fine on 5 year old hardware and any decent modern game scans hardware and optimizes settings for you, no reason they wont throw Steamdeck in the .ini and valve wont be nudging them to do so.    There is a reason "Plays best on Nvidia" splash screens were a thing for a decade, because hardware companies absolutely will do things to incentivize a game to run on their hardware.


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## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Consoles are better optimized specifically for their hardware.


Sure, but we're well past the point when there were clear dividing lines between PC and console hardware/architecture.  PS5/XSX are simply gaming PCs with more restrictive OSes/firmware, and XSX is even just running a modified version of Windows 10.  Hell, I'm guessing a lot of XSX/XB1 games use Vulkan for their graphics API, same thing Steam Deck will be using (via Proton).


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 10, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Sure, but we're well past the point when there were clear dividing lines between PC and console hardware/architecture.  PS5/XSX are simply gaming PCs with more restrictive OSes/firmware, and XSX is even just running a modified version of Windows 10.  Hell, I'm guessing a lot of XSX/XB1 games use Vulkan for their graphics API, same thing Steam Deck will be using (via Proton).


The Sexbox only supports DX12, much like the Xboner before it. The PS5 still uses the same proprietary API that's partially OpenGL that Sony has been using for years now. The only console that actually has Vulkan support, funnily enough, is the Switch...but most devs don't use it, because whatever Nintendo's proprietary API is provides lower level access to the hardware. 

So no, that won't make any difference whatsoever for the Steam Deck. Quite frankly I don't expect the Steam Deck to change much of anything at all when it comes to PC gaming and dev support and any such nonsense, because even with Valve's excellent price to performance the Steam Deck will still be a niche device. I'd be surprised if even manage to break a million units before it's either abandoned or something better comes along.


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## DKB (Aug 10, 2021)

The main thing that I want is that developers may finally have a real incentive to put more anti-cheat support on Linux. Because, at this point, it's fucking pathetic. It's the only reason I haven't switched over to Linux.


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## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> The Sexbox only supports DX12, much like the Xboner before it. The PS5 still uses the same proprietary API that's partially OpenGL that Sony has been using for years now. The only console that actually has Vulkan support, funnily enough, is the Switch...but most devs don't use it, because whatever Nintendo's proprietary API is provides lower level access to the hardware.


Ah, fair enough.  Thankfully Proton as a translation layer works just as well for DX12/OpenGL, or of course there's the option of just installing Windows to access those APIs directly.



Tom Bombadildo said:


> Quite frankly I don't expect the Steam Deck to change much of anything at all when it comes to PC gaming and dev support and any such nonsense


Me neither, but that's because Valve has basically stated as much.  Their pitch to developers is that games on Steam will _just work_ on Steam Deck without a huge time commitment to optimizing for that device specifically.  Those developers that do want to ensure the smoothest experience possible can still do that of course, but it's by no means a requirement, so they'll probably be few and far between.



Tom Bombadildo said:


> I'd be surprised if even manage to break a million units before it's either abandoned or something better comes along.


I don't see them abandoning Steam Deck any time soon, as its OS will be replacing the current big picture mode in Steam.  So that will continue to be iterated on for some time.  I don't think Valve is too concerned with sales numbers here either, as they're no doubt taking a loss on all but maybe the top tier SKU.

As far as "something better" goes, I think that'll be difficult to pull off.  At least if we're talking about being better in every category: price, performance, portability, battery life.  Valve are trying to encourage other manufacturers and brands to extend into this space, but at the same time they aren't making it easy by pricing Steam Deck so aggressively and including so many "premium" features at that price.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 10, 2021)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Given LTT's recent quality of their videos, I'd take that claim with a grain of salt. How many games did they bother testing before making that 50% claim? 1? 2?
> 
> I'm sure the RDNA 2 based iGPU will kick shitty Vega's ass, but I highly doubt it will be "about 50% better" in a lot of titles.



There's a lot to take in with that video, and even some before. I agree with the sentiment that we need more information before we can judge long term.. but so far it's looking to be a much gaming device than the Neo, or any other device sharing similar specs.. Still, the RDNA2 chip (even gimped) is outright destroying the Vega. "50% better" is looking to be far more likely than you may think.

My only concern with the Deck is it running Linux OOTB, which is where some of the cost savings come from. Even nowadays, performance in a lot of games with Proton leaves a lot to be desired. So, I have to wonder if Proton will be in a much better state come this winter? Or if it'll be like it is now, and turn people away. Yeah, one can easily install Windows on it, but to a fair amount of people? It's a daunting task.


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