# Transgenderism in speedrunning



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

I've been a fan of GDQ for years now. Lately, however, it seems as if there is no bastion against SJWs and virtue signaling. 

I thought gaming would remain one of the only forms of media that might possibly be immune to politics, but sadly, I was wrong. I thought perhaps video games could be enjoyed without adding the element of cancel culture, but again, I was wrong. 

Lately, 95% of the videos posted by GDQ also feature the runners' preferred pronouns in parentheses next to their name. About 30% of them do not accurately represent the chromosomal biology of the runner being featured. 

There is an entire feature called 'Frame Fatales', obviously being a play on 'Femme Fatales'. My only sticking point is, 90% of the Frame Fatales are biologically male. 

I consider speedrunning and competitive gaming to be very akin to competing in athletic endeavors and professional sports. I fully disagree with the idea of allowing men to compete fairly against women. 

I believe that women, throughout history, have really been given a raw deal when it comes to competition and recognition for their achievements. I also recognize that there are actual, proven, REAL physical differences between men and women, fundamentally, physically and biologically. Bone density, fat proportion, musculature, etc. 

It isn't being a bigot or any kind of -phobic to state the truth that men and women ARE physically different. I personally believe that it robs women of their chance to fairly compete and to receive the recognition that they are justly due if a man can just "transition" and then get into a fistfight with a person who has been a female for her entire life. Fuck you, Fallon Fox. 

By the same token, I believe that women in gaming are vastly under-represented. Girls LOVE video games just like guys do. But, guys typically don't have to deal with the level of harassment that women do when they play games online. Yes, trolls are trolls, but what women receive is quite a bit worse than just having a 15-year-old scream homophobic and racial slurs at you because you murked his ass on Call of Duty. 

The reasons I am not down with how GDQ is making an issue about a speedrunner's chosen gender identity are myriad, but the number one reason is that I believe that "transgendered" speedrunners are essentially guilty of what can be likened to stolen valor. I do not believe any human being can change his or her gender. I believe your gender is defined by your chromosomes, not your feelings. Your dangly bits DO determine your gender AND your sex. Fewer than 1% of humans on the planet suffer from a condition like Klinefelter Syndrome, or are actual hermaphrodites. All of the rest of them, in my personal opinion, are simply boys who think they're girls, or girls who think they're boys. Mutilating your organs and taking hormones to be a better fake version of what you can never be isn't going to actually make you the man or woman you fantasize about being. 

The qualifier that makes a speedrunner whom is demanding personal pronouns that do not match their dangly bits guilty of stolen valor is the fact that there are millions of ACTUAL female gamers out there, just as talented and committed and passionate as any male gamer. The ones demanding that you refer to them as the opposite sex, regardless of the fact that they have to shave their neckbeards and still have deep voices and prominent Adam's Apples (and in almost all cases, a set of functional cock-and-balls), are stealing glory and respect from ACTUAL women. 

The secondary reason that this new snowflakery bothers me is that it takes away from the game, entirely. I just came to see someone stomp the shit out of Final Fantasy IV. I don't CARE about your fantasy regarding your genitals. I just want gaming to be the one refuge, the one aspect of modern existence that isn't subject to this recent virtue signaling/cancel culture/woke/scold/SJW/snowflake life. Just play the goddamned game, people.

How do you feel about this? Do you think it matters enough what a speedrunner or gamer identifies as that a community event like this needs to be shaped by the fantasy of a few folks suffering from a mental disorder? Does it add ANYTHING to a speedrun to see personal pronouns assigned to the runner? I'm particularly interested in hearing from people who identify as "transgender" or believe that "transitioning" is an actual thing that humans can do. Please join me in this debate.


----------



## Viri (Jun 9, 2020)

The one speed runner I follow, I remember telling him in Twitch "Please don't ever try to become a girl!" His response was "Don't worry bro, I won't!"


----------



## FGFlann (Jun 9, 2020)

Politics infects everything because people are political.

Let people play dress up if they want to, I don't give a hoot. I am interested in your statements on demographics though, because the inclusion of 'trans' players has no impact on the number of biological females engaged in high level gaming.

This may be hard for some to hear but women at gaming events are not under represented. If you remove shitty phone games from the picture, demographic breakdowns are heavily weighted in favour of males and that's unlikely to change. The disparity only gets deeper when you get to high levels of play because it's overwhelmingly men who put that kind of time and effort into the hobby, to a point where they can do it professionally. The only thing stopping women from being represented more is women not caring about video games. Also briefly, contrary to popular belief, men deal with more general harassment than women do on a regular basis. It's not even a close comparison.


----------



## DinohScene (Jun 9, 2020)

Gamers are toxic.
That's why I avoid them.


----------



## Mythical (Jun 9, 2020)

It's just how they want to be addressed. You don't have to agree with it, but I don't think it really takes anything away from watching speedruns as a whole. I can understand your point on competition, atleast in regards to physical sports, but in gaming there generally isn't afaik male/female categories so I feel the point is moot.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jun 9, 2020)

"I believe that women in gaming are vastly under-represented" and then goes on to dictate who is and isn't allowed to call themselves a woman.

Allow me to come back with a one-liner:

Stop worrying about what's in other peoples pants if you're not trying to get in them.


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Jun 9, 2020)

Just let people identify as who they wanna be it ain't hurting anyone


----------



## Chary (Jun 9, 2020)

I very casually watch speedruns, only tuning in when I'm linked videos from friends telling me that xyz run is super cool, or such. Therefore, I don't care about the runner themself, and care more about the skill shown off, cuz that's what the speedrun is about, the gameplay, not gender identity. Just show me cool tricks and glitches to complete old games wildly fast. 

That being said, pro gaming isn't akin to sports in the sense that women and men should be split. It's not like football or wrestling where your muscle mass matters--unless you want to argue that a man's thumb is stronger than a woman's, therefore it's unfair to pit them against each other or something.


----------



## Uiaad (Jun 9, 2020)

All I have to say to OP is that people are people. It doesn't matter what gender they are. It doesn't what they identify as. As long as they aren't causing you or anyone else any harm what does it matter. Are you going to start on furries next ? Nothing we see today is new. People have been identifying and wishing they could be an animal or a the other gender for centuries. The only thing that has changed is that these people have been able to be what they want to be, because they can see other people living how they want to. If it makes them happy why take that away from them ?  Are they hurting you by being happy ? 

 As far as GDQ tho, there is so much toxic bullshit that goes on behind the scenes its not worth it anymore.


----------



## Scarlet (Jun 9, 2020)

I always love that the people who are offended about trans people are the ones complaining about people being offended. I put it to the people that the OP is, in fact, the truest of snowflakes here.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jun 9, 2020)

Why do I have @Chary in my head saying 

"Don't take the bate Amanda keep calm and walk away slowly from this thread"


----------



## Uiaad (Jun 9, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Why do I have @Chary in my head saying
> 
> "Don't take the bate Amanda keep calm and walk away slowly from this thread"


And in the other part of your head you have Uiaad saying "go rip him limb from fucking Limb. PAINT THE FORUM RED!!!"


----------



## Bullseye (Jun 9, 2020)

If only identifying as something would make us become that thing... 

That superhero dream...


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2020)

Why does it matter that trans people exists and other people are finally respecting trans people?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jun 9, 2020)

Uiaad said:


> And in the other part of your head you have Uiaad saying "go rip him limb from fucking Limb. PAINT THE FORUM RED!!!"


I am going to keep it friendly and just post the following.


“Transgender women are women. Any statement to the contrary erases the identity and dignity of transgender people and goes against all advice given by professional health care associations who have far more expertise on this subject matter than anyone on the temp”


----------



## Uiaad (Jun 9, 2020)

Bullseye said:


> If only identifying as something would make us become that thing...
> 
> That superhero dream...



identifying as anything actually has nothing to do with this thread because its irrelevant. Being transgender in no way affects a speedrun  in anyway shape or form.
Do transgender people have any advantage in speedrunning ? No 

It's a complete non issue


----------



## Magsor (Jun 9, 2020)

Someone with skillz is someone with skillz. Women are underrepresented tough so they stand out I guess.


----------



## Zaide (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> The secondary reason that this new snowflakery bothers me is that it takes away from the game, entirely.


It really doesn't though. I've never been watching a run and thought, "Geez this person's genitals are really ruining this entire experience."


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Jun 9, 2020)

Zaide said:


> It really doesn't though. I've never been watching a run and thought, "Geez this person's genitals are really ruining this entire experience."


what about a sex speedrun


----------



## bell1-1010 (Jun 9, 2020)

Living proof that you can be articulate in your writing and still manage to say nothing worth reading...

Claiming your context  is not bigot or “any kind of-phobic” it’s not really up to you to decide.
Deciding that the “valor of millions of ACTUAL female gamers out there“ needs to be defended from (Apparently) people suffering with a  mental disorders” is, again, not really up to you, women have a voice, they will speak up if they need to.

But hey, as long you’re not harassing or discriminating anyone, you can still think it the way it suits you best.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2020)

Jokey_Carrot said:


> what about a sex speedrun


I can tell you from experience that cis dudes are the worst and best at that


----------



## notimp (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> I've been a fan of GDQ for years now. Lately, however, it seems as if there is no bastion against SJWs and virtue signaling.
> 
> I thought gaming would remain one of the only forms of media that might possibly be immune to politics, but sadly, I was wrong. I thought perhaps video games could be enjoyed without adding the element of cancel culture, but again, I was wrong.


Its videogames, for gods sake. You are doing the Anita Sarkeesian thing, just in reverse (You were fighting the good fight, but I guess the establishment just had to oppress you...).

Issue number one - how can you be offended, by other people existing?

Issue number two - how can you be offended by other people existing, and trying to follow their ambitions.

Issue number three, it all would be fine, if they just wouldnt do it openly?

I mean what the heck. This is nothing of importance in life, this is literally a fight over the 'image of your hobby'. And the person who 'wins' wins in image, but in literally nothing else of importance.

Why has a community that is about staying indoors, and creating feats of astonishing excellence, by obsessing over button inputs or structure of videogames a disproportionate amount of what I'd had formerly proudly called 'societies rejects'? Gosh, I don't know... seems kind of obvious?

And now that social media has literally opened up all private spaces, and society is about to reconfigure a little, so also non standard life concepts can be part of it, of all things going on in life, you find that so revolting?

Why have these debates (which is why I hinted at Anita Sarkeesian above btw.) always have to be groups at the edges of society clawing each others eyes out? I dont understand it. If you want to 'fight oppression' pick bigger targets.


Also, and this is very important to me, because I complain about virtue signaling all the time - virtue signaling is, when you yourself are someone trying to advance your perceived status in life, by attaching to a cause, where you mostly care about the looks, but not about action. So to complain about virtue signaling, and at the same time about 'too much activity" in a field, is entirely hypocritical. (Then its activism (or even just 'the thing existing') you dont like. Lets make this very clear.)


----------



## Taleweaver (Jun 9, 2020)

I don't know how to put it politely, so this'll be a harsh post : the text in the OP is dumb.

First : this is about video games. All studies regarding physiology differences in genders are about physical sports. Muscle differences don't matter on keyboards, mice and /or controllers, and in terms of reflexes or hand eye coordination, the differences are minimal as well.

Second : this is about video games. If you're watching a performance because it's performed by someone of this or that gender, you're not watching it for the right reason. But it's not like you can see a difference even in the slightest (fuck... I can be an albino octopus with three genders and down syndrome, and still no one would notice it when watching me play a video game)

Third : perhaps I'm watching the wrong news channels (1), but I had no idea this was an issue with anyone outside the OP. And with lack of credible sources, I've got to admit I suspect this is just a blog post of someone who wants others to join his circle jerking over a non - issue. 
... But ey : that's just my suspicion. I can certainly be wrong. I mean... I don't see anyone sharing the OP concern thus far, but that's not his fault. 



(1): mine features news on the Corona situation and the riots in the USA. I... Don't think I'll give a channel that brings up transgender issues in speedrunning in video games at this point much credit for their sense of priority right now


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

I got pretty much the responses I expected. 

The reason it bothers me and that I refuse to refer to a man with a neckbeard and a deep voice as "she" or "her" is because that is a straight up lie. Honesty and integrity are very important to me. If someone wants to try to force me to dismiss my understanding of chromosomal biology in favor of protecting their subjective fantasy of what they wish they were, my answer is NO. 

They have all the liberty in the world to pretend to be whatever they please. I have the same exact liberty to not want to participate in their lifelong game of Pretty Pretty Princess. For me to refer to someone using personal pronouns that do not match their actual physical gender, that would require me to be a liar. I refuse to lie just to make someone feel better about themselves. 

I would love to see more women in gaming and in speedrunning. Actual women. No Y chromosome. 

As far as anyone suffering from gender dysphoria, I wish you all the best, and hope you find a healthy way to deal with your issues. Remember that your liberty ends where mine begins. You may refer to yourselves as whatever you please. I will refer to you as what you are. You may not and will not make any demands of me. I may not and will not make any demands of you. You have the right to play pretend. I have the right to consider you silly and sad. Neither has the right to harm the other in any way. 

Cheers.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2020)

Just say you are transphobic and be done with it. You are saying a lot of words, yet literally haven’t made a single point. Which is pretty typical of transphobes trying to justify their backwards and shitty beliefs. Trans people exist regardless of your transphobic beliefs and people are finally starting to treat trans people with respect, I beg you don’t cry. ;o;


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

Uiaad said:


> And in the other part of your head you have Uiaad saying "go rip him limb from fucking Limb. PAINT THE FORUM RED!!!"



How dare you assume my gender? I identify as a Super Saiyan. 

#triggered
#ineedasafespace
#soundssillydoesntit


----------



## relauby (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> If someone wants to try to force me to dismiss my understanding of chromosomal biology in favor of protecting their subjective fantasy of what they wish they were, my answer is NO.



You need to get a better understanding of biology then


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Just say you are transphobic and be done with it. You are saying a lot of words, yet literally haven’t made a single point. Which is pretty typical of transphobes trying to justify their backwards and shitty beliefs. Trans people excite regardless of your transphobic beliefs and people are finally starting to treat trans people with respect, I beg you don’t cry. ;o;



Please describe to me where I suggested that I harbored an irrational fear of individuals suffering from the mental disorder that is gender dysphoria, rather than just using ad hominem and attacking me personally (which is a violation of the Forum Rules, as you well know).

Attack my argument, not my character or person. Your only contribution to this debate was to directly insult me. Sadly, I expected better, my brother. Thanks for playing, sir.


----------



## Uiaad (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> How dare you assume my gender? I identify as a Super Saiyan.
> 
> #triggered
> #ineedasafespace
> #soundssillydoesntit




no mate, you're an idiot. go back to the 1800's where you and your attitude belong

you could identify as a toaster and i would give you the respect you deserve. I, unlike you don't care what people call themself as long as they aren't hurting anyone else
If you were expecting the responses you got then why did you post at all ?


----------



## Chary (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> How dare you assume my gender? I identify as a Super Saiyan.


I know you're trying to take the piss here, but what does that change about you as a person? If you identified as literally anything, would that change your gaming skill? Do I now have to lose sleep at night because I'm so terribly bothered about the minor personal details of a person on the internet? No. Obviously.

"Honesty" and "integrity" are nothing without empathy and understanding.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> Please describe to me where I suggested that I harbored an irrational fear of individuals suffering from the mental disorder that is gender dysphoria, rather than just using ad hominem and attacking me personally (which is a violation of the Forum Rules, as you well know).
> 
> Attack my argument, not my character or person. Your only contribution to this debate was to directly insult me. Sadly, I expected better. Thanks for playing, sir.


Your arguments have nothing to do with gaming nor speedrunning, you just wanted to use those as an excuse to be transphobic, which you are. You can pretend to be ignorant of what transphobia means, but that doesn't mean you aren't transphobic. There is no trans debate, trans people exist there is no debate to be had.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

Chary said:


> I know you're trying to take the piss here, but what does that change about you as a person? If you identified as literally anything, would that change your gaming skill? Do I now have to lose sleep at night because I'm so terribly bothered about the minor personal details of a person on the internet? No. Obviously.
> 
> Honesty and integrity are nothing without empathy and understanding.



Let's go with that. If empathy and understanding are so important, why are those virtues only incumbent upon those who disagree with someone crying that they are a victim because someone doesn't agree with their lies? 

Just because you are offended doesn't mean you're right. 

Shouldn't ALL of us be understanding of each other, and allow everyone their own personal liberty? 

I see very, very little empathy or understanding from "transgendered" individuals when I communicate that I am not interested in playing along with their cosplay. Facts. 

Why the double standard?


----------



## MMX (Jun 9, 2020)

> I thought gaming would remain one of the only forms of media that might possibly be immune to politics, but sadly, I was wrong. I thought perhaps video games could be enjoyed without adding the element of cancel culture, but again, I was wrong.



OP why give a shit about these people? just because your escape-medium has been infiltrated by commie-affiliates.
maybe you could use this opportunity to dial down on gaming and start a family or deep relation with a woman

imo you shouldn't view gaming as lifestyle or life-choice thing or dare I say "identify" as gamer. 



> Gamers are toxic.
> That's why I avoid them.



I thought people of all ages and genders play?
I guess what you actually mean is "white people that game"
(while probably being white yourself with your self-hatred)


----------



## Scarlet (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> I got pretty much the responses I expected.
> 
> The reason it bothers me and that I refuse to refer to a man with a neckbeard and a deep voice as "she" or "her" is because that is a straight up lie. Honesty and integrity are very important to me. If someone wants to try to force me to dismiss my understanding of chromosomal biology in favor of protecting their subjective fantasy of what they wish they were, my answer is NO.
> 
> ...


Pretty Pretty Princess is a great custom title, so thanks for that o7

Anyways, I feel like I say this every time I'm in the politics forum, but if you want an actual discussion or debate, phrase your opening post from a neutral standpoint. Your OP comes across as an attack on trans people, rather than what could actually be an interesting invitation to discussion on trans people and acceptance in the speedrunning community.

I think it's genuinely interesting how many speedrunners feel comfortable in their relevant communities and with their following to openly be who they are. I'd love to see a discussion on why this is, the outliers, large players like GDQ accommodating it, and all that jazz.

It all seems like a great discussion, but this post simply doesn't seem like the place for it.

There's my two cents anyway.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Your arguments have nothing to do with gaming nor speedrunning, you just wanted to use those as an excuse to be transphobic, which you are. You can pretend to be ignorant of what transphobia means, but that doesn't mean you aren't transphobic. There is no trans debate, trans people exist there is no debate to be had.



You're not wrong. "Transgendered" people exist. And many are the most intolerant people I've ever met. I would unfortunately be forced to include you in that list, my good man. It's okay for you to force your views on others. Not very tolerant of anyone who disagrees with you, though.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Scarlet said:


> Pretty Pretty Princess is a great custom title, so thanks for that o7
> 
> Anyways, I feel like I say this every time I'm in the politics forum, but if you want an actual discussion or debate, phrase your opening post from a neutral standpoint. Your OP comes across as an attack on trans people, rather than what could actually be an interesting invitation to discussion on trans people and acceptance in the speedrunning community.
> 
> ...



YOURS was the response I was truly looking for. Someone who isn't an entitled self-made victim, capable of having a discussion and a cordial disagreement. You didn't attack me personally and were able to express your point of view with dignity. 

Good form.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> You're not wrong. "Transgendered" people exist. And many are the most intolerant people I've ever met. I would unfortunately be forced to include you in that list, my good man. It's okay for you to force your views on others. Not very tolerant of anyone who disagrees with you, though.


Imagine using an argument this stupid and thinking somehow you have some ground to stand on be taken seriously.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Jun 9, 2020)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Imagine using an argument this stupid and thinking somehow you have some ground to stand on be taken seriously.



Imagine actually presenting an argument, and then you can join this debate, sir. I actually DO want to understand why you want to force other people to call you a girl. I'm being super cereal. Why would it bother you so badly if you knew someone refused to accept your hormone treatments and surgical mutilations as being sufficient to change your gender? Why does it cause you so much fannyharm if someone just says NO when you say "I'm totally a girl, even though every cell in my body (with the exception of some of the SPERM CELLS in my body) has a Y chromosome"?

Totally, absolutely, 100% a serious question. Help me to understand, rather than just lamely attempt to flame me.

Tell me about how your gender dysphoria entitles you to dictate what other people think. And, if you are "transitioning" to better your mental health, is it really about your body, or how other people view you? 

Methinks your issue is how other people view you. You care far, far more about what other people think of you than what you think of yourself. If that wasn't true, it wouldn't bother you that I will never address you as 'ma'am'. 

You seem to want to control society's perception of you. What gives you that right?


----------



## Chary (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> *Why the double standard?*





Neo Draven said:


> playing along with their cosplay





Neo Draven said:


> my brother. Thanks for playing, sir.





Neo Draven said:


> is because that is a straight up lie





Neo Draven said:


> You may refer to yourselves as whatever you please. I will refer to you as what you are.





Neo Draven said:


> my good man. I





Neo Draven said:


> sir



Maybe because one party is trying to just live their happy life, and the other feels a need to disparage them and try to point out why their personal idealogy is correct over others' own. It comes off as such compensation that it makes anything you say irrelevant. If you could disregard your dislike of a people for ten seconds to just discuss the actual point you're trying to make, maybe people wouldn't just drop by this thread to scoff. 

Now you've just lost the plot anyway, you've already deviated from your own original topic.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2020)

Neo Draven said:


> Imagine actually presenting an argument, and then you can join this debate, sir. I actually DO want to understand why you want to force other people to call you a girl. I'm being super cereal. Why would it bother you so badly if you knew someone refused to accept your hormone treatments and surgical mutilations as being sufficient to change your gender? Why does it cause you so much fannyharm if someone just says NO when you say "I'm totally a girl, even though every cell in my body (with the exception of some of the SPERM CELLS in my body) has a Y chromosome"?
> 
> Totally, absolutely, 100% a serious question. Help me to understand, rather than just lamely attempt to flame me.


There is no debate here, explain how any of this has anything to do with speedrunning? How does someone being trans infringe onto your personal life? Why do people simply living their life and bothering no one, need to be a topic of debate? What are you gaining from being a dick to people for simply existing?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jun 9, 2020)

MMX said:


> I guess what you actually mean is "white people that game"
> (while probably being white yourself with your self-hatred)


Had he said that Black people should be excluded from speed running then this thread would have been shut down in an instant and he would have been suspended . But because its a transphobic thread which even the cis members are pointing out absolutely no action is being taken by the site staff go figure.

Seriously though why does the site treat  racist and transpobic comments differently ??


----------



## VinsCool (Jun 9, 2020)

This thread is the very example of:

Throw shit "opinion" at everyone, and then scream with anger when the same shit gets thrown back.

OP doesn't want to have a discussion, they want to gather people agreeing with them.


----------

