# The Pokemon Company has filed a lawsuit against those who leaked pre-release images of Sword/Shield



## goldensun87 (Nov 25, 2019)

The Pokemon Company can suck my dick.


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## Ev1lbl0w (Nov 25, 2019)

Wow, what an aggressive move by their part. The game is already controversial on the Internet, and now this? Ouch...


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## RHOPKINS13 (Nov 25, 2019)

Sounds like The Pokemon Company is still butthurt because Sword & Shield had mixed reception, mostly due to them not including all of the pre-existing Pokemon.

Leaking pages from a guide book didn't do any damage compared to leaving pokemon out.


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## ChibiMofo (Nov 25, 2019)

Protect your IP or lose it. They are protecting theirs. 
No like it? No buy their products.


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## VartioArtel (Nov 25, 2019)

1MiinMofo said:


> Protect your IP or lose it. They are protecting theirs.
> No like it? No buy their products.



This isn't protecting their IP. It's them striking against their own fans, believing the fans ruined their image more than they did.

How do we know this?

"Irreparable damages".

Irreparable damages refers to something wherein "something cannot be reversed or repaired". But clearly that's not true. There is no way to prove that releasing the images caused harm in any way shape or form. It's them attempting to throw around the most abuseable clause they could in law to attack the fans.

Editted in line: Hell, the fact that they think this DID caused damage by revealing info in advance seems to imply they intentionally shorthanded the games, and they didn't want this info out in advance because they believed (without proof) that it would harm sales.

That you're defending them is atrocious.


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## diggeloid (Nov 25, 2019)

The game probably didn't meet their projections, and they're blaming it on the controversy those leaks started. On the one hand, sure, maybe that's a reason. But on the other, it would mean they were hoping everyone would buy the game before they realized it was subpar.

Fuck them with a rusty crowbar in either case.


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## ShadowOne333 (Nov 25, 2019)

Fuck you Poke Co.
Fuck you and your bullshit against the fans.

The leaks didn't hurt the games, your stupidity did, assholes.


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## templeofhylia (Nov 25, 2019)

didn't the game become one of the fastest selling switch games and out-do Let's Go by, i recall, "a lot"? sounds like damage to me for sure...


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## Mythical (Nov 25, 2019)

Almost anybody that would have even seen any of these leaked images would have been people who probably already chose their method of obtaining the game(s) good or bad


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## Dax_Fame (Nov 25, 2019)

"Guys! Guys! People are realizing the cut corners in Sword and Shield!! What can we do?!"
"Hmmmm... let's sue some people!"


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## Justinde75 (Nov 25, 2019)

Sue everyone and everything under the sun


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## jumpman17 (Nov 25, 2019)

OK, you can't claim irreparable damages while also being the fastest selling Switch game and highest grossing-launch Pokemon game as well.


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## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2019)

goldensun87 said:


> The Pokemon Company can suck my dick.


But someone might take pictures of said dick sucking and leak them on the internet then they will also probably be sued by the Pokémon Company


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 25, 2019)

1MiinMofo said:


> Protect your IP or lose it. They are protecting theirs.
> No like it? No buy their products.


Every time something like this comes up, I have to remind people that that is trademark, and not copyright!! Copyrights exist whether the owners choose to enforce them or not. I wouldn't call leaked information copyrighted content anyway. It's pretty dystopian to allow corporations to control the flow of information.


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## osaka35 (Nov 25, 2019)

Good. I hate spoilers. This is what should happen to those who spoil surprises for other people 

Though I'm curious. If someone was to get a book through no fault of intention of their own, and are under no obligation or contract to withold the information, CAN they  be sued? I mean, what infringement are they suing for? I'm guessing they'd have to go after someone at the company where they had a "no telling" contract? The company which allowed it to happen?


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## VinsCool (Nov 25, 2019)

Dax_Fame said:


> "Guys! Guys! People are realizing the cut corners in Sword and Shield!! What can we do?!"
> "Hmmmm... let's sue some people!"





jumpman17 said:


> OK, you can't claim irreparable damages while also being the fastest selling Switch game and highest grossing-launch Pokemon game as well.


"Guys, we fucked up, let's damage control, there won't be any more people hating on us if everyone hates us in the first place!"


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2019)

The leaks ruined the launch for me. I was trying hard to avoid them but people kept posting them everywhere.
I hope people will learn from this not to ruin game launches.


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## DKB (Nov 25, 2019)

GameFreak (or whoever the fuck owns it, whatever) needs to sell the IP to someone else. They're done with Pokemon it seems.


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## Xandrid (Nov 25, 2019)

Glad I bought Digimon and not Pokemon


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2019)

Although I enjoyed sword and shield, this is a pretty big dick move on TPC's part. Don't really think I want to support that in the future.


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2019)

DKB said:


> GameFreak (or whoever the fuck owns it, whatever) needs to sell the IP to someone else. They're done with Pokemon it seems.


it's owned by 3 companies and I think they should outsource it.


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## whateverg1012 (Nov 25, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> The leaks ruined the launch for me. I was trying hard to avoid them but people kept posting them everywhere.
> I hope people will learn from this not to ruin game launches.



Leaks will always be a thing for major releases so you have to take the appropriate precautions unfortunately.

I completely avoided spoilers, really not that hard to avoid them, don't go on any gaming related websites before launch. If you go on reddit, ign, etc. you're just asking to be spoiled, and that's on you.


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## Jayro (Nov 25, 2019)

Maybe this will be a lesson to them my losing a few million sales before they pull some bullshit like this again. The fact that they're going after the leakers is just a sad and pathetic retaliation tactic because they're angry, when they should only be angry at themselves for putting out a product they know is going to be sub-par. The Dex being cut doesn't bother me because I'm not a competitive player, but I still feel the sting from it. They did us dirty, and someone exposed it before the release. Nothing wrong with that.

GameFreak and The Pokemon Company could totally patch in the rest of the Dex, by the way... All it would take is an update to be pushed out, since the damage is already done.


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## gameboy (Nov 25, 2019)

i assume sales arent doing too good...


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## Lodad (Nov 25, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> This isn't protecting their IP. It's them striking against their own fans, believing the fans ruined their image more than they did.
> 
> How do we know this?
> 
> "Irreparable damages".....



Exactly! They knew they were creating a product that was inferior to their previous releases and wouldn't live up to them. They were hoping to move as many units as they could as quietly as possible before the backlash so they could say "F you, got mine," and split the scene. They're blaming these leaks for people being fairly warned ahead of time.

They were hoping to make more of a killing than ever before by pushing as many as, or more copies, than previous generations at a 50% price hike at the console game price and this leak ruined that for them. They got their highest-grossing release to date according to a previous article posted here, but I'm sure they're upset it didn't eclipse unit sales records and this lawsuit says to me they're not happy making the most money they've ever got out of a new release despite half-assing it.



Jayro said:


> GameFreak and The Pokemon Company could totally patch in the rest of the Dex, by the way... All it would take is an update to be pushed out, since the damage is already done.



EDIT: Of course they could, but I'm calling it ahead of time that they're going to release them, along with other half-ass, incomplete past-game regions as _paid _DLC within 6 to 9 months.


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## Hern4ndeZzz (Nov 25, 2019)

diggeloid said:


> The game probably didn't meet their projections



The game is selling at an alarming rate. I find that a little hard to believe.


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## osaka35 (Nov 25, 2019)

I mean, didn't they do the same thing when ruby and sapphire came out? Cut half the pokemon, no way to transfer from the old games? I'm guessing these games will be remembered fondly, especially when they release remixed version with the full pokedex and loads more after-game content in a few years. 

As far as the leaks are concerned, they've probably had more than one leak when it comes to these things. This was probably the final straw. I quite appreciate the surprise, though I know some enjoy the leaks.


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## wurstpistole (Nov 25, 2019)

Probably one reason why hbg discord is down and nothing new on the shop since 22nd


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## Olmectron (Nov 25, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I mean, didn't they do the same thing when ruby and sapphire came out? Cut half the pokemon, no way to transfer from the old games? I'm guessing these games will be remembered fondly, especially when they release remixed version with the full pokedex and loads more after-game content in a few years.
> 
> As far as the leaks are concerned, they've probably had more than one leak when it comes to these things. This was probably the final straw. I quite appreciate the surprise, though I know some enjoy the leaks.



You were actually able to complete the Pokédex in those games after they released LeafGreen and FireRed. And this was because all the 386 Pokémon (by then) were already programmed into Ruby and Sapphire.

Here, they removed them from the game. No info, no data, no models nor textures. No way to transfer Pokémon even from future games which could be remakes from older entries.


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## IcedOutBart (Nov 25, 2019)

I could have sworn this was the fastest selling pokemon game this year or im a tripping???Glad i didnt but this garbage in the first place


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## chrisrlink (Nov 25, 2019)

whats next group all who pirate the game and sue them too?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


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## Pandaxclone2 (Nov 25, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I mean, didn't they do the same thing when ruby and sapphire came out? Cut half the pokemon, no way to transfer from the old games?



It might have been the same from a layman's perspective, but at least all National Dex Pokemon were coded in the games to get later on with the other Gen III titles. Sword and Shield does not do this. (unless you count their Pikachu placeholder 0-base stat entries.)


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## VartioArtel (Nov 25, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I mean, didn't they do the same thing when ruby and sapphire came out? Cut half the pokemon, no way to transfer from the old games? I'm guessing these games will be remembered fondly, especially when they release remixed version with the full pokedex and loads more after-game content in a few years.
> 
> As far as the leaks are concerned, they've probably had more than one leak when it comes to these things. This was probably the final straw. I quite appreciate the surprise, though I know some enjoy the leaks.


 As I remember, the issue in Gen 3 was simply a difficulty bringing Pokemon forwards. They did eventually let you, but all the same, it wasn't as big a loss (TO MY MEMORY).

Gen 5 had/was the real problem because of the attempted 'hard reboot' that fell so flat they necessitated B2W2.


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## ChaosEternal (Nov 25, 2019)

Olmectron said:


> You were actually able to complete the Pokédex in those games after they released LeafGreen and FireRed. And this was because all the 386 Pokémon (by then) were already programmed into Ruby and Sapphire.
> 
> Here, they removed them from the game. No info, no data, no models nor textures. No way to transfer Pokémon even from future games which could be remakes from older entries.


You still pretty much needed access to 5 separate games to complete the Pokedex. FireRed, LeafGreen, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald. Add in Colloseum and XD if you want Lugia and Ho-Oh as well. Not exactly consumer friendly.

As for the lawsuit, I can't complain all that much. I was furious at the people who leaked KH3 six weeks in advance. This is way less egregious, but it still fucks over the people who are trying to avoid spoilers.


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## Olmectron (Nov 25, 2019)

ChaosEternal said:


> You still pretty much needed access to 7 separate games to complete the Pokedex. FireRed, LeafGreen, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Colosseum, XD. Not exactly consumer friendly.


It was still possible to catch them all.

Now, if I want to do this in Sword and Shield, how long should I wait? Until Masuda actually has a change of mind and starts releasing updates with the removed Pokémon? Or whenever they decide to release Pokémon Knife, Pokémon Rod and Pokémon Lance? And this last way of them releasing more games, would still need them to update Sword and Shield, since there's not data of those Pokémon in the game.

I would be alright with them saying they would release Season Passes with the missing Pokémon, and update in a 6 month or so basis. But they didn't do anything like that. They basically stated "The switch entry was a good place to start cutting out Pokémon, since this was already getting out of hand for us, and the complete Pokémon dex won't be in any other Pokémon. Every game will balance out and remove Pokémon depending on gameplay, plot or whatever we decide."


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## RivenMain (Nov 25, 2019)

gameboy said:


> i assume sales arent doing too good...



Sales have been pretty great actually. The lawsuit focuses groups releasing the image before the game was out. It has nothing to do with bad sales or the releases of the rom after its launch.
I approve of it. Nobody who buys things they want should have to watch someone play a game before its even released gloating that they didn't pay for it and your a pleb for spending money.
I can condone the idea of piracy when it matters on something no longer obtainable by normal means to gather, but on something not even released to position yourself as better than others be it pkhexing shiny's to say your better than those who dedicate time because you don't like to be rewarded with time spent. Its an important statement for Nintendo to commit too.

 They've done this before my thoughts go to smash youtubers having their channels deleted after leaking music files. People will do whatever they can for content.


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## Kurt91 (Nov 25, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I mean, didn't they do the same thing when ruby and sapphire came out? Cut half the pokemon, no way to transfer from the old games? I'm guessing these games will be remembered fondly, especially when they release remixed version with the full pokedex and loads more after-game content in a few years.



No, it's not the same at all. When Ruby and Sapphire came out, it was impossible to port your collection from the older games because of hardware differences. They could not figure out how to link a Game Boy game to a Game Boy Advance game like that. However, they did have all of the Pokemon coded into the game, and immediately released Pokemon LeafGreen/FireRed, Pokemon Colosseum, and Pokemon XD all to cover their bases. Every single one of those games could have their Pokemon traded/ported directly to Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald. So, while they couldn't transfer teams from the older games, they did the best they could to work around it and make sure that everyone was still available in some way. (Plus, casual playing of all of the different games would add up to damn near the entire roster anyways, so you could play to enjoy the games instead of mindless grinding and hunting to scrape them all together.)

In Sword/Shield, not only are not all of the Pokemon not available, they are not coded into the game at all. People have tried modding the game to force their Pokemon in, to see what would happen, and they got a generic placeholder designed to prevent crashing. 

Keep in mind, this is after getting everybody to pay for Pokemon Home, for a one-way transfer that can't send the Pokemon back to the 3DS, and a vast majority of their collection now being imprisoned in Home with no way to use them at all. Meaning not only can you not bring them into Sword/Shield at all, you can't take them back out to continue playing on the older games, and since Pokemon Home is subscription-based, your Pokemon are essentially held hostage and will all be deleted if you ever decide to stop paying for Home.


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## ChaosEternal (Nov 25, 2019)

Olmectron said:


> It was still possible to catch them all.
> 
> Now, if I want to do this in Sword and Shield, how long should I wait? Until Masuda actually has a change of mind and starts releasing updates with the removed Pokémon? Or whenever they decide to release Pokémon Knife, Pokémon Rod and Pokémon Lance?


At least two years, considering that was how long it took them to release Emerald.


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## Olmectron (Nov 25, 2019)

ChaosEternal said:


> At least two years, considering that was how long it took them to release Emerald.


So, did Masuda lie and they will update the games with the missing Pokémon data? That would be great. Let's hope all the (actually tiny) backlash they received actually does something.


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## osaka35 (Nov 25, 2019)

Olmectron said:


> You were actually able to complete the Pokédex in those games after they released LeafGreen and FireRed. And this was because all the 386 Pokémon (by then) were already programmed into Ruby and Sapphire.
> 
> Here, they removed them from the game. No info, no data, no models nor textures. No way to transfer Pokémon even from future games which could be remakes from older entries.





VartioArtel said:


> As I remember, the issue in Gen 3 was simply a difficulty bringing Pokemon forwards. They did eventually let you, but all the same, it wasn't as big a loss (TO MY MEMORY).
> 
> Gen 5 had/was the real problem because of the attempted 'hard reboot' that fell so flat they necessitated B2W2.


right, after leaf green and fire red, but not before. Which is where we're at now. So, give them a few years and it'll probably be the same situation. There is DLC, after all, and they're probably planning free dlc or something to add the models. Or just push for the new games. Who knows.

They've been fairly consistent in how they do things, so I'm pretty surprised people are surprised. Though I understand the disappointment.

I googled it and:
catchable in ruby/sapphire from the get-go:
Total: 181/386

sword/shield:
...well, 400 officially, but I think there are some in the code not in the game, but not all? I'm not sure. Can't find a resource.



Kurt91 said:


> No, it's not the same at all. When Ruby and Sapphire came out, it was impossible to port your collection from the older games because of hardware differences. They could not figure out how to link a Game Boy game to a Game Boy Advance game like that. However, they did have all of the Pokemon coded into the game, and immediately released Pokemon LeafGreen/FireRed, Pokemon Colosseum, and Pokemon XD all to cover their bases.



I wouldn't call 1-3 years later as "immediately" . I can't remember if you could trade everything using Colosseum, but couldn't you say it's a bit much to require an additional console, additional game, plus cables, in order to play with pokemon already on the game?  Remember we live in an age of DLC and expansion packs. Come back in 2 years and hopefully they'll have given a lot of fans what they're wanting. If they haven't done anything by then, feel free to be annoyed at the "new" thing they're doing. until then, it's business as usual for Game Freak. Personally, I'm hoping they bother to take more risk with pokemon, though with this blow-back, they may try and go safer with the next one.


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## Olmectron (Nov 25, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> right, after leaf green and fire red, but not before. Which is where we're at now. So, give them a few years and it'll probably be the same situation. There is DLC, after all, and they're probably planning free dlc or something to add the models. Or just push for the new games. Who knows.
> 
> They've been fairly consistent in how they do things, so I'm pretty surprised people are surprised. Though I understand the disappointment.
> 
> ...


Masuda stated they won't add the missing Pokémon, and that no any other Pokémon game will feature the full dex. Of course, they could change their mind, but who knows at this point.

Quote from a Masuda interview:

_*“We currently don’t have plans to make the Pokémon that are missing from the Galar Pokédex available in the game,” Masuda said. “This is an approach that we want to continue with in future Pokémon games. Up until now it hasn’t been possible to encounter every Pokemon in every game, so people had to transfer them from old games to the new game, by using Pokémon Bank as an example.”
*_
Not sure about the last part, but it's a fact you can't transfer Pokémon if the data isn't there to begin with. Maybe he chose a bad way to word things out, and will actually patch missing Pokémon data once a new game is released that contains the Pokémon?


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## osaka35 (Nov 25, 2019)

Olmectron said:


> Masuda stated they won't add the missing Pokémon, and that no any other Pokémon game will feature the full dex. Of course, they could change their mind, but who knows at this point.
> 
> Quote from a Masuda interview:
> 
> ...


it won't happen up until it does  Nintendo is good like that. But it does suck we don't get them immediately. But it's also nice to enjoy new pokemon without just rebuilding an old team (which is why they do this). It'll be interesting to see how they do things from now on. Wouldn't it be interesting if there were like, 100 pokemon different from the two games?  

But back on topic, I wonder if they blame the leaks for the blow-back, or if there's something else going on. I mean, the games are selling fine.


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## Master X (Nov 25, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> I mean, didn't they do the same thing when ruby and sapphire came out? Cut half the pokemon, no way to transfer from the old games? I'm guessing these games will be remembered fondly, especially when they release remixed version with the full pokedex and loads more after-game content in a few years.



On paper they did, but their are mitigating circumstances given the era they released in. Specifically, the difficulty with transferring pokemon cross gen and the game technically not having a established history of cross-gen (More specifically, cross-hardware) trading.

First one is simple - You couldn't do it with a single hand held. You had to have multiple. 2nd, despite R/B/G/Y and G/S being classified as two separate generations, they were cross compatible with each others hardware. On paper it would be cross gen trading because hey, gen 1 and gen 2, but hardware wise both games could be considered 1st gen games. This is also why it was possible to trade between R/S/E and FR/LG - They were both, not just third gen games, but cross compatible hardware wise and additionally they were both running on very similar game engines.

The DS era had its own caveats that allowed for crossgen transfers as well - The DS/DSL being backwards compatible with GBA games. Rather than being required to use two seperate consoles to do cross-gen transfers, it could now be done on one console. Not sure on specifics for HG/SS and BW/BW2, though I think that cross-gen trading was limited by that point since you'd have to have a OG or lite DS to do 3rd gen transfers.

And come 6th gen games on the 3ds, with cross gen transfers being partially pay-walled... And then cross-gen transfers being effectively killed the next. So much for 'you'll now be able to easily trade ANY of your pokemon'.

Basically, the reason people are so pissed off about it? Nintendo sold Bank as a way to greatly simplify cross-gen transfers when it'd previously been difficult on account of hardware limitations. This was supposed to remove hardware from the equation all together. And then come the Switch, they effectively killed cross-gen transfers.


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## Edgarska (Nov 25, 2019)

Chary said:


> The Pokemon Company International believes that this leak of information has caused "irreparable damages", and by sharing stolen trade secrets, they threatened the value of both major Pokemon titles.



So basically they're mad they might have lost sales when people saw how shit the games looked pre-release?


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## Something whatever (Nov 25, 2019)

irreparable damages?....irreparable damage?....irreparable damages?! When has leaks made a game flop???


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## bobmcjr (Nov 25, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> Every time something like this comes up, I have to remind people that that is trademark, and not copyright!! Copyrights exist whether the owners choose to enforce them or not. I wouldn't call leaked information copyrighted content anyway. It's pretty dystopian to allow corporations to control the flow of information.


Yep, your work never ever becomes public domain because you forgot to DMCA/C&D someone. Each part of the unholy IP trinity is very legally distinct. Heck, trademarks aren't even in the Constitution. You also aren't allowed to C&D someone using the DMCA specifically for a trademark or patent infringement case. You may still C&D as long as you don't claim it's a DMCA takedown.

Regarding the trade secret claim, I'd argue it's similar to Apple trying to claim that the "poem" needed to boot macOS was a trade secret, and to hold it as precedent to throw this case out. The gist of the Apple case was that something cannot be a trade secret if you make it readily available to the general public in your products, and I would 100% consider retailers (presumably that's where this precious guide came), or consumers who received it early from a retailer or something, as the general public.


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## grey72 (Nov 26, 2019)

Slowly but surely, TPC is going Disney


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## MasterJ360 (Nov 26, 2019)

Over leaked pics? something tells me that just a scapegoat excuse for the media.
I believe they are pissed off b/c we can hack their shit and they cant do damn thing about it. Suing ppl is the only way they can sleep peacefully.


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## olembet (Nov 26, 2019)

well deserved idiot reviewer leaker


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## Deleted-236924 (Nov 26, 2019)

Lodad said:


> EDIT: Of course they could, but I'm calling it ahead of time that they're going to release them, along with other half-ass, incomplete past-game regions as _paid _DLC within 6 to 9 months.



Paid DLC, you're giving them way too much credit. It'll be full-price game re-releases at best.



ChaosEternal said:


> You still pretty much needed access to 5 separate games to complete the Pokedex. FireRed, LeafGreen, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald. Add in Colloseum and XD if you want Lugia and Ho-Oh as well. Not exactly consumer friendly.



As opposed to needing Red/Blue + Gold/Silver + Ruby/Sapphire if transferring from Gen. 2 was allowed? 

(Note that Lugia and Ho-Oh were not required for National dex completion in Gen. 3, and if someone wanted to argue that we should count event-only Pokémon, you can get those in FR/LG/E via Navel Rock.)


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## TehCupcakes (Nov 26, 2019)

When I first read "images" I thought it meant cartridge dumps. That would be quite understandable.

...Strategy guide? Really? Do people even use those anymore?  Sure it gives away some spoilers, but that hardly seems like "irreparable damages" or something you could quantify.


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## graeme122 (Nov 26, 2019)

goldensun87 said:


> The Pokemon Company can suck my dick.



Yeah, mine too but let me continue to buy their games and keep my nose well up their arse.


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## chartube12 (Nov 26, 2019)

Can someone find a way to sue them for lying to people multiple times in press releases and videos, in multiple languages?

I would certainly join a class action law suit to teach them a lesson. Don’t be cheap, hire more employees, don’t lie to gamers and stop the yearly releases!


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## Taffy (Nov 26, 2019)

gamefreak pls

_you're _causing irreversible damage not the fans


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## Paulsar99 (Nov 26, 2019)

They half assed the game and they're the ones pissed that people are exposing it.


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## gamesquest1 (Nov 26, 2019)

funny this reads more like "we want to punish the people who exposed our scam to our marks" if they are arguing simply disclosing the shortcomings of the game caused irreparable damage, its basically admitting they intended to pull a fast one on their users and are pissed some people decided not to buy the game based on true info


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## wiewiec (Nov 26, 2019)

Who the fuck? I think they should be sued for releasing this buggy abomination!


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## Axido (Nov 26, 2019)

Best launch of a Nintendo Switch game.
Best U.S. launch of a main series Pokémon title.
6 million copies sold within the opening weekend.

Yeah, that's a lot of damage done there.


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## ninjistix (Nov 26, 2019)

honestly leaks can hype a game up, unless the games actual shit, they just butt-hurt because people spread the truth before fans got disappointed from buying the actual game, its not like the sales are doing bad, i think this is gonna rub some hard core fans the wrong way, by the looks of this thread so far.


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## chrisrlink (Nov 26, 2019)

chartube12 said:


> Can someone find a way to sue them for lying to people multiple times in press releases and videos, in multiple languages?
> 
> I would certainly join a class action law suit to teach them a lesson. Don’t be cheap, hire more employees, don’t lie to gamers and stop the yearly releases!



you could for false advertisment and i know the perfect piece to go with (using a lot of assets from previous gen, when saying everything was redone from scratch)


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## Spider_Man (Nov 26, 2019)

Pokemon company thats kept nintendo goind and are getting free advertising and are getting sued.

Fuck you nintendo!


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## Rahkeesh (Nov 26, 2019)

Employees and people contracted under NDA have obligations to protect company secrets. No-one else does and its a travesty against free speech if the courts support going after anyone outside that group, regardless of whether you think leaks are a good or bad thing for the industry.


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## KingBlank (Nov 26, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> This isn't protecting their IP. It's them striking against their own fans, believing the fans ruined their image more than they did.
> 
> How do we know this?
> 
> ...



Regardless, Leaking media early is terrible and should be punished. Many fans choose to avoid seeing leaks and find that the existence of a leak diminishes the experience of playing a new release.


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## Edgarska (Nov 26, 2019)

KingBlank said:


> Regardless, Leaking media early is terrible and should be punished. Many fans choose to avoid seeing leaks and find that the existence of a leak diminishes the experience of playing a new release.



Have you considered not looking at leaks?


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## Lxmisade (Nov 26, 2019)

Tbh all of the leaks are basically the reason me and my friends chose not to buy the game. While that's anecdotal, I _guess_ I can empathise with this decision? But I still think a lawsuit seems heavy.


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## VartioArtel (Nov 26, 2019)

KingBlank said:


> Regardless, Leaking media early is terrible and should be punished. Many fans choose to avoid seeing leaks and find that the existence of a leak diminishes the experience of playing a new release.


This opens up accountability issues, ownership rights, etc. I don't think we can honestly say if it should or shouldn't really be punished.


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## AkikoKumagara (Nov 26, 2019)

I shouldn't be surprised so many people are miffed about this, but I kind of am. Like, what the hell did you expect to happen? Don't want to get in trouble? Don't leak things before they're released. Simple as that. I'm sure most of the people upset by this move are the people complaining about National Dex and graphics and whatever...

This isn't an attack on the fans, it's about making an example of people breaking street dates and illegally distributing media as it pertains to an unreleased book and game.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 26, 2019)

I am curious here. For the sake of things I will assume they not only can show damages from the data being made available but can also quantify it.

So the data released was official, was true (though if ever false rumour about games was pursued...) and was set to be released in short order (timing is a thing the courts might well accept here but I would not fancy the lawyer that gets to make the claim's job, even more so when the opposition will probably note that such things would have been known in exceptionally short order*). Trade secrets also tend to be from people within the trade in a trusted position of some form (and it is a legal concept in a lot of places, in terms of investigations it can be quite fascinating as well -- patents, trademarks and copyrights are so much let your lawyers do battle but trade secrets are often very hard to detect, hence why they can be trade secrets, but enough of that) and if some random got the good fortune to find something or have it delivered ahead of time (presumably having not directed an attempt at obtaining it via dishonest means)... harder to make that case. I don't know the complete US takes on the concept though.

*I don't know what computer games have as the equivalent of a "good opening weekend" before everybody rubbishes it on Monday around the watercooler. As films can be tanked by early screenings these days, never mind people saying don't bother lads on Saturday afternoon, then that is hard to sell and is generally considered far more tricky than it was in years prior. For games and reviews I have stuff like https://towardsdatascience.com/what...o-games-compared-to-global-sales-bdf7a395e064 but sales with respect to time and first impressions/reviews/quick analysis is far less clear.

This is not exactly new ground either. We have been seeing leaked scripts, preview screenings NDA leaks, and whatever else (if not worse) for films, tv, and such for decades at this point and I don't know that I have really seen anything here to base stuff on. Most things here are whole work leaks (screeners, workprints and whatever else) or similar such things. Maybe some of the Harry Potter stuff ( https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-over-harry-potter-leak-idUSL1887939520070718 , https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36010426 , https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/may/15/books.ukcrime , though I mainly just want to link the Internet Historian video) but most of those are contract breaches and outright theft (which they might be fishing for, though usually one files a criminal complaint there before turning that evidence into civil, see also most torrent/p2p piracy cases).

To that end I will probably lean towards fishing expedition (though an odd one) or warning shots. I will also have to raise the middle finger.


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## Deleted-236924 (Nov 26, 2019)

Axido said:


> Best launch of a Nintendo Switch game.
> Best U.S. launch of a main series Pokémon title.
> 6 million copies sold within the opening weekend.
> 
> Yeah, that's a lot of damage done there.



Someone call Phil Swift.


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## VartioArtel (Nov 26, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I am curious here. For the sake of things I will assume they not only can show damages from the data being made available but can also quantify it.
> 
> So the data released was official, was true (though if ever false rumour about games was pursued...) and was set to be released in short order (timing is a thing the courts might well accept here but I would not fancy the lawyer that gets to make the claim's job, even more so when the opposition will probably note that such things would have been known in exceptionally short order*). Trade secrets also tend to be from people within the trade in a trusted position of some form (and it is a legal concept in a lot of places, in terms of investigations it can be quite fascinating as well -- patents, trademarks and copyrights are so much let your lawyers do battle but trade secrets are often very hard to detect, hence why they can be trade secrets, but enough of that) and if some random got the good fortune to find something or have it delivered ahead of time (presumably having not directed an attempt at obtaining it via dishonest means)... harder to make that case. I don't know the complete US takes on the concept though.
> 
> ...


Agreed on basically every end. This feels like they're just firing at air to intimidate and threaten their own fandom out of rage of their own incompetence.


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## Sliter (Nov 26, 2019)

I think this is the first ever legal action by them/ related to pokemon that really make sense! There are people that like leaks, there are the ones that don't like, but not only for the public, they pay people that work there or have early access to not leak a thing and if do, they get fined! Why someone else must be fine for doing so?


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## codezer0 (Nov 26, 2019)

As someone that's been a long-standing fan, and as someone who _met their wife_ through mutual enjoyment of Pokemon? *Fuck them* for pulling this shit.


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## Garro (Nov 26, 2019)

Irreparable damages for showing the world the full picture of Pokemon Sword and Shield? Are they admitting their game is shit?



Sliter said:


> They pay people that work there or have early access to not leak a thing and if do, they get fined! Why someone else must be fine for doing so?


Because in most cases, an agreement is signed to not disclose sensitive information and breaking such agreement leads to fining, that's why.

I'm actually shocked (and kinda ashamed) that some people are fine that a company is trying to sue (and therefore potentially destroying) an average person just for uploading some pictures and committing the terrible crime of spoiling people.


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## Akira (Nov 26, 2019)

You leak me and i’ll teach you, Po-ke-mon, gotta sue them all, gotta sue them all, Pokemon!


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## YukidaruPunch (Nov 26, 2019)

While this may sound harsh, I believe they're entirely in their rights. People who work in this are under NDAs and other contractual obligations. Sharing private info before the time can in fact lead to property damages, as much of the info can be decontextualised. It's a breach in confidence and nobody wants to work with people like that.

I do hope that don't go after monetary compensation, as _that_ would be incredibly petty and downright ridiculous, but protecting their rights and intellectual properties is absolutely a fair move. They don't need the money. I hope they're doing this to show _this is fucked up_ and they do not intend on working with people like that in the future_._

As someone who _has_ been fucked up by disingenuous people before (to the point of losing a ton of money, receiving threats and having to go to the police because some assholes thought they were above the law and could do whatever they wanted), I do think contracts are meant to be taken seriously and breaching contracts is a seriously fucked up thing to do. It's distrust.


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## Deleted-236924 (Nov 26, 2019)

YukidaruPunch said:


> While this may sound harsh, I believe they're entirely in their rights. People who work in this are under NDAs and other contractual obligations. Sharing private info before the time can in fact lead to property damages, as much of the info can be decontextualised. It's a breach in confidence and nobody wants to work with people like that.
> 
> I do hope that don't go after monetary compensation, as _that_ would be incredibly petty and downright ridiculous, but protecting their rights and intellectual properties is absolutely a fair move. They don't need the money. I hope they're doing this to show _this is fucked up_ and they do not intend on working with people like that in the future_._
> 
> As someone who _has_ been fucked up by disingenuous people before (to the point of losing a ton of money, receiving threats and having to go to the police because some assholes thought they were above the law and could do whatever they wanted), I do think contracts are meant to be taken seriously and breaching contracts is a seriously fucked up thing to do. It's distrust.



If the people in question were under an NDA, that is.


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## Xzi (Nov 26, 2019)

Biggest launch numbers for any game on Switch, and they're suggesting leaks of the very few new Pokemon added in SwSh somehow caused harm?  Most of the people seeking out leaks did so due to excitement for the games.  This is about as frivolous as lawsuits get.


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## YukidaruPunch (Nov 26, 2019)

Ammako said:


> If the people in question were under an NDA, that is.



If the leaked images were from a strategy guide, they most probably were. You usually wouldn't get your hands on such a piece of publication of you're not working on it; and if you're working on it, you're probably under an NDA. It's how most things work in this industry as you can't just trust people to have goodwill anymore. This is the internet; stuff leaks like an old pipe.

For instance - I know of some games who are under development that haven't even been announced yet, but that's because I got friends in the industry. I'm not under an NDA, but people who are working on said games are. I'm not going to spill out the beans because I'm not an asshole and that could put some friends of mine in hot water and ruin the publisher's/devs plans of announcing this. I actually could do this and perhaps run away hands-free, as I've got no empirical evidence to back it up and perhaps it could be dismissed as a rumour altogether. However, if I did have photos, and facts, and evidence, it was proof I was much closer involved with the property than I was supposed to be - and it that case, it would probably be a breach of contract, and I'd be in deep trouble. So yeah, there are rules, as there are trade secrets, and this stuff is meant to be taken seriously as it's still a business after all.


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## IncredulousP (Nov 26, 2019)

Reminder that companies like Pokemon Co. are not your friend, they are a money-making machine that hires skilled people to calculate the most efficient and maximized way to take your money. Any chance of them losing money compared to their calculation is backlash from stakeholders, hence why they are taking action. Maybe they knew cutting Pokemon would cause a backlash, and hoped that it would fly under the radar until the initial sales were already final. Surely they cut Pokemon in the first place to save money somewhere. Clearly they lost money because of the leaks, doesn't matter how successful the game still is. Somebody associated with the company is not happy that _it wasn't more money _they expected to make.

Don't be fooled into believing any company is your friend, or that companies "care" about their fans. Bottom line, it's about the maximized profits.


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## Deleted-236924 (Nov 26, 2019)

YukidaruPunch said:


> If the leaked images were from a strategy guide, they most probably were. You usually wouldn't get your hands on such a piece of publication of you're not working on it; and if you're working on it, you're probably under an NDA. It's how most things work in this industry as you can't just trust people to have goodwill anymore. This is the internet; stuff leaks like an old pipe.
> 
> For instance - I know of some games who are under development that haven't even been announced yet, but that's because I got friends in the industry. I'm not under an NDA, but people who are working on said games are. I'm not going to spill out the beans because I'm not an asshole and that could put some friends of mine in hot water and ruin the publisher's/devs plans of announcing this. I actually could do this and perhaps run away hands-free, as I've got no empirical evidence to back it up and perhaps it could be dismissed as a rumour altogether. However, if I did have photos, and facts, and evidence, it was proof I was much closer involved with the property than I was supposed to be - and it that case, it would probably be a breach of contract, and I'd be in deep trouble. So yeah, there are rules, as there are trade secrets, and this stuff is meant to be taken seriously as it's still a business after all.



The assumption that the Discord and/or 4chan users who leaked pictures were under an NDA is just that, an assumption. We don't know if the people who took pictures and/or posted them online were under NDAs, or if it was simply someone who got a hold of the book because of a store breaking street dates.

I'd rather wait until more info comes.

In your example, you are not under an NDA, your friends are. If you leak information, your friends are in trouble, not you.


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## DuoForce (Nov 26, 2019)

>Make shit game
>Game gets (inevitably) leaked
>TPC Blames Leaker
What a world we live in

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

>Make shit game
>Some dumb guidebook gets leaked
>TPC blames the leaker for game being shit
It's TPCi's fault for the horrible reception of the game, not the leaker.


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## YukidaruPunch (Nov 26, 2019)

Ammako said:


> The assumption that the Discord and/or 4chan users who leaked pictures were under an NDA is just that, an assumption. We don't know if the people who took pictures and/or posted them online were under NDAs, or if it was simply someone who got a hold of the book because of a store breaking street dates.
> 
> I'd rather wait until more info comes.
> 
> In your example, you are not under an NDA, your friends are. If you leak information, your friends are in trouble, not you.


I can't say for certain that they were under NDAs, but I think it's very probable they were - at least the first ones to leak the info. I wasn't paying attention to the game leaks but if this actually happened _weeks_ before the game launched it's just too weird to be a coincidence. According to the original post, the guide wasn't even launched alongside the game, but a week later, probably to avoid such an occurrence.

I can't say anything for sure but I do believe in it. Yet, anyway, only time will tell of what will happen then. I do think something will come out of it, no matter how pretty this might not end up - all I know it subpoenas are no joke, and The Pokémon Co. seem to be taking this very seriously. Even if I still think they're in their rights to do so, I also hope people in the future know this is not a joking matter and it's not really worth the risk to disclose trade secrets for invisible internet points.


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## Deleted-236924 (Nov 26, 2019)

YukidaruPunch said:


> I can't say for certain that they were under NDAs, but I think it's very probable they were - at least the first ones to leak the info. I wasn't paying attention to the game leaks but if this actually happened _weeks_ before the game launched it's just too weird to be a coincidence. According to the original post, the guide wasn't even launched alongside the game, but a week later, probably to avoid such an occurrence.
> 
> I can't say anything for sure but I do believe in it. Yet, anyway, only time will tell of what will happen then. I do think something will come out of it, no matter how pretty this might not end up - all I know it subpoenas are no joke, and The Pokémon Co. seem to be taking this very seriously.



If the users in question were not under NDA, it's still possible that finding them may help them find the origin of the leak, who may be under an NDA. So I guess we'll see.

I think if someone who was under an NDA leaked something, then they definitely should face repercussions. I just don't really want to assume until more info is out.


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## Tac 21 (Nov 26, 2019)

diggeloid said:


> The game probably didn't meet their projections....




if selling 5 million within 3 days doesn't met projections then they can go fuck themselves jesus christ big corporate how greedy can you get?


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## the_randomizer (Nov 26, 2019)

Man, glad I like Digimon more than Pokemon


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## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2019)

templeofhylia said:


> didn't the game become one of the fastest selling switch games and out-do Let's Go by, i recall, "a lot"? sounds like damage to me for sure...


coudl've sold more had they not fucked up


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## GbaNober (Nov 26, 2019)

Pokemon co. is becoming the master of suers.


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## DarthDub (Nov 26, 2019)

If anything, the leaks ended up getting them more sales.


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## Justinde75 (Nov 26, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> Good. I hate spoilers. This is what should happen to those who spoil surprises for other people
> 
> Though I'm curious. If someone was to get a book through no fault of intention of their own, and are under no obligation or contract to withold the information, CAN they  be sued? I mean, what infringement are they suing for? I'm guessing they'd have to go after someone at the company where they had a "no telling" contract? The company which allowed it to happen?


If you consider series features like all pokemon being cut as spoilers then I dont know what to say


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## DANTENDO (Nov 26, 2019)

Leakers are geekers


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## osaka35 (Nov 26, 2019)

Justinde75 said:


> If you consider series features like all pokemon being cut as spoilers then I dont know what to say


More of what the new pokemon looked like, evolutions, story details, that sort of thing. any details really. It was a far more enjoyable experience, going into the game blind. Reminded me of playing the original game, which is getting harder and harder to do. 

Them cutting pokemon isn't anything terribly new, though the circumstances now are slightly different. The more pokemon we get, the more it makes sense to cut deeply, though. Personally, I would have liked to have seen at least one new game with only new pokemon and none of the old. Though that would have require them to hold off on their release of that pokehome thing.

I value being surprised and coming into an experience cold, learning as I go. So anytime I can play a game, watch a movie, listen to music, etc. with zero expectations, I usually have a better experience. Or I can better articulate what I didn't like about an experience, without looking at all those flaws others have pointed out. Can still be an amazing experience, but it tends to resonate if it comes at me without pre-conception. or, to put it more bluntly: me no likey spoilers


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## Darth Meteos (Nov 26, 2019)

Go ahead! It's about time the hacker known as 4chan faced justice!


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## leerpsp (Nov 26, 2019)

I don't think that they will track anyone down who used 4chan because most people that leak stuff use a vpn or something along the lines of that, But as for discord yes they can/unless they used a vpn.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Snugglevixen said:


> The leaks ruined the launch for me. I was trying hard to avoid them but people kept posting them everywhere.
> I hope people will learn from this not to ruin game launches.


That is why I stayed off this form and 4chan, facebook and twitter tell the game come out. I hate it when a game is ruined for me with leaks.


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## pacguy64 (Nov 26, 2019)

Funnily enough, I actually wanted to go into this gen completely blind. I was planning to go in for a blind nuzlocke for the first time. But after Masuda infamously announced that the feature I'd been using for over 15 years was going to be dropped for graphical reasons, I had to give that up. The reason I liked nintendo and their flag ship games is that they always seemed to prioritize gameplay and player enjoyment over all else, and to have that all dropped for "better models and animations" was a huge, scary red flag.

I'm frankly glad it was leaked. I could've potentially lived with just dexit on it's own, but getting absolutely nothing in return for it AND getting an ugly, unpolished, and mildly insulting game on top of it was ridiculous. They need to hire more staff, the vast majority of these problems can be easily fixed by that alone. No need to lie, no need to hide anything, no need to pull out your lawyers and keep your marketing insanely vague. Just get more devs so you can safely hit the deadline and release a quality game. No need to crunch a tiny team into making multiple switch titles at the same time, holy crap! I shudder to think of whats going on back there, especially with things like the mouse in the credits (I can only imagine that they either did that at 1-3am and just wanted to go home, or were so ridiculously crushed for time that they had to immediately move on to the next task after compiling the video; what a nightmare ;w...

This whole mess has finally made me completely disenfranchised with major games in general. Pokemon was the one franchise I had left that I just blindly got because it did what I wanted, and having what I perceived to be the heart and soul of the series ripped out, plus constantly being lied about and danced around was the final straw. I don't like to be bleak, but I can't get hyped anymore; I'd always go in expecting the bare minimum for a series based on it's prior entries, but now I know that's too high; anything can be removed if they think it'd be cheaper or "monetizable"

I plan to get the game used solely so I can get to know the new pokemon (which will likely be removed in the next games if what Masuda said is true, but with all the lies going around TPC I have no fucking clue anymore), and hack my switch later to get the features they removed from the modding community. I initially was dedicated to keeping my first switch vanilla, but now that my respect for Nintendo has waned (alongside Mario Kart tour and Animal Crossing mobile, which are just so gross), I'm very excited to hack it open, and play all the virtual console games I've waited 2 years to buy...


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## NoNAND (Nov 26, 2019)

Salty salty~
Wait until bad karma gets back to them

Eh, you know the cycle, how things go.


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## TankedThomas (Nov 26, 2019)

Fuck Nintendo and fuck Game Freak. Those idiots can't make a good game. They lied multiple times to their customers and were finally exposed with hard evidence (which some morons still deny). They're only suing to try to prevent the bad reputation they've been accumulating over the past few weeks - a reputation they fully deserve and have only earnt because they themselves are lazy and worthless, thinking for years that they could just ride the coattails of their successful IP.

And as for "spoilers", I typically hate them, but it's not impossible to avoid them. More over, this is the first time in about a decade that they haven't just revealed everything before release, so to say that there is irreparable damage is to neglect their own marketing for years prior. 
Not to mention the fact that we've had Pokemon leaks for almost two decades (potentially longer) and they've never sued anyone before, so why now? Because their reputation is on the line, after they fumbled badly and falsely advertised to their customers (which is illegal, by the way, so they're probably suing other people before a class action or something is hopefully brought against them, though I'm not hopeful that enough people will care to actually make that happen).

Also, fuck anyone who supports Nintendo still. They're just as shit a company as all the rest, and they're certainly not your friend. I can't wait to see them settle that Joy-Con drift lawsuit and pay everyone affected (only US citizens, of course, since that's where the lawsuit is) a measly $5 or something dumb as compensation. People shouldn't have bought that poorly cobbled-together hardware to begin with. I'm glad I no longer have to deal with the one I was holding onto.


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## Justinde75 (Nov 26, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> More of what the new pokemon looked like, evolutions, story details, that sort of thing. any details really. It was a far more enjoyable experience, going into the game blind. Reminded me of playing the original game, which is getting harder and harder to do.
> 
> Them cutting pokemon isn't anything terribly new, though the circumstances now are slightly different. The more pokemon we get, the more it makes sense to cut deeply, though. Personally, I would have liked to have seen at least one new game with only new pokemon and none of the old. Though that would have require them to hold off on their release of that pokehome thing.
> 
> I value being surprised and coming into an experience cold, learning as I go. So anytime I can play a game, watch a movie, listen to music, etc. with zero expectations, I usually have a better experience. Or I can better articulate what I didn't like about an experience, without looking at all those flaws others have pointed out. Can still be an amazing experience, but it tends to resonate if it comes at me without pre-conception. or, to put it more bluntly: me no likey spoilers


I get not liking spoilers, but you should know what you are buying before you buy it. If it lacks features you really want why should you buy it?


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## kurtdouglas (Nov 26, 2019)

Imagine being in legal trouble over a pokemon picture.


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## chartube12 (Nov 26, 2019)

Spawn wave has a good video from just before the release date. He talks about how gamefreak has a very bad pr problem. How if gamefreak was up front from the beginning and honest about everything, the negatives wouldn’t be highlighted so much.

from my POV it all started with the tree house event during e3 covering the games. If Gamefreak didn’t say anything during the live events about Pokémon being cut. Waited instead a few days til the release date, they could have prepared a proper explanation.

Trying to fix mistranslations from media coverage wouldn’t have been nessasary if they released the information using Nintendo’s own translation members.

Also we where told in 2013, that the 3ds Pokémon models were designed to be future proof already. now if there were some kind of coding issues with the models and they had to make some changes for the switch and couldn’t get it all done in time, they should of just said that. I think many fans would have accepted that and moved on from the cut issue.

Here’s another thing. Everyone knows data mining happens even with the best and biggest companies. It may be way game freak decided to say something during the treehouse. Data mining is wat you have to more honest about the state of your games.

there is overwhelming about of data to show they created the games’ originally for the New Nintendo 3/2DS systems. More than likely they were given a mandatory amount of time to port the games to the Nintendo Switch by there bosses at the very last minute. We already the Switch originally was going to be programmed to use cyanogen mod of android but they turned down the deal Nintendo offered. Instead the system using a modified port of the OS of the Nintendo 3DS. Nintendo probably thought gamefreak would have it easy porting the games to the switch. however due to gamefreak remaining indie developer team member size and a mandatory release date they didn’t get a change to do it properly. Making the game world’s textures suffer.

My finale statement is this. A well known youtuber slipped during one of his videos and said he knew hacking & data miners found the complete data sheets for the missing Pokémon. The only thing missing is their models and they were easily able to add them in without problems and be fully tradable between games. Now he hasn’t said anything about this since and I have yet to see a patch doing exactly like he said. His videos since than, act like he never said anything about it. Making me wonder if he knew people working on a patch and wasn’t supposed to say anything. I can’t even find the video anymore. I was stupid and didn’t save it to a watch list.

At rate geamefreak shouldn’t be blaming fans for the bad press. If anything they should be looking at management and say, ‘you guys throw us under a bus and now want fans to pay the price, don’t go down this road and take responsibility Instead. Your disrespecting not only us but the fan base’.


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## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2019)

goldensun87 said:


> The Pokemon Company can suck my dick.



But the real question is, would you really want them to?


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## cots (Nov 26, 2019)

osaka35 said:


> Good. I hate spoilers. This is what should happen to those who spoil surprises for other people
> 
> Though I'm curious. If someone was to get a book through no fault of intention of their own, and are under no obligation or contract to withold the information, CAN they  be sued? I mean, what infringement are they suing for? I'm guessing they'd have to go after someone at the company where they had a "no telling" contract? The company which allowed it to happen?



Copyright still applies regardless if you paid for the item or not. If you're reproducing copyrighted material without permission you can be held liable. I do think it's a bit extreme to punish people simply posting pictures from a guide book, that is unless they scanned and uploaded the entire book. However, I think it would be more appropriate to criminally (not in civil court, but in criminal you go to jail court) go after the people who were responsible for pirating and leaking the actual game and every single person who has pirated it since then. What's the penalty from the Felony? $250,000 fine and 5 years in jail? Sounds about right to me. Maybe in 10 years the next generation will change their ways and put as much value in video game piracy as the current one does in #metoo and go after all of the people who were pirating Switch games.


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## RedBlueGreen (Nov 26, 2019)

Disgusting. They made a shitty game, that sold really well. They're just mad that people aren't satisfied with it and that they hurt their reputation by only including half the Pokédex. Rather than wasting resources than pursuing frivolous lawsuits (I doubt anybody who posted leaks was under an NDA) they should put them towards making a decent game.


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## AkikoKumagara (Nov 26, 2019)

chartube12 said:


> Spawn wave has a good video from just before the release date. He talks about how gamefreak has a very bad pr problem. How if gamefreak was up front from the beginning and honest about everything, the negatives wouldn’t be highlighted so much.
> 
> from my POV it all started with the tree house event during e3 covering the games. If Gamefreak didn’t say anything during the live events about Pokémon being cut. Waited instead a few days til the release date, they could have prepared a proper explanation.
> 
> ...



A lot of this isn't true.


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## Sheshomegrown (Nov 26, 2019)

cots said:


> $250,000 fine and 5 years in jail? Sounds about right to me. Maybe in 10 years the next generation will change their ways and put as much value in video game piracy as the current one does in #metoo and go after all of the people who were pirating Switch games.



Yeah, make someone have to pay 250,000 usd and 5 years in prison for copying data.. Especially from someone who said themselves that they've never made as much money on one of their releases before.. What kind of sentence do you feel that people who took a loaf of bread because they couldn't afford it, or people who shares their Netflix account, deserve?

And, please, continue comparing sexual harrasments and rape to copying data (or in this case, taking pictures of a guide book), they are really, really similar!


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## flockamav (Nov 26, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Man, glad I like Digimon more than Pokemon


gold psot right here


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## the_randomizer (Nov 26, 2019)

flockamav said:


> gold psot right here


Not sure if sarcastic or serious


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## chrisrlink (Nov 27, 2019)

god for once i wished anonymous did something like how they fucked sony up after the geohotz fiasco some companies need to BURN


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## SatoXR (Nov 27, 2019)

Oh.  So this was the cause of the dex campaign. XD

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh.  So this was the cause of the dex campaign.


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## cots (Nov 27, 2019)

Sheshomegrown said:


> Yeah, make someone have to pay 250,000 usd and 5 years in prison for copying data.. Especially from someone who said themselves that they've never made as much money on one of their releases before.. What kind of sentence do you feel that people who took a loaf of bread because they couldn't afford it, or people who shares their Netflix account, deserve?
> 
> And, please, continue comparing sexual harrasments and rape to copying data (or in this case, taking pictures of a guide book), they are really, really similar!



Piracy is wrong and the USA it's illegal. If you can't afford something that doesn't mean you can simply steal it. If that's so, what's your home address? I can't afford a car right now. Would your parents mind if I steal theirs? Piracy is wrong regardless of anything you could possibly say to defend it. Can't handle the time don't do the crime


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## codezer0 (Nov 27, 2019)

cots said:


> Piracy is wrong and the USA it's illegal. If you can't afford something that doesn't mean you can simply steal it. If that's so, what's your home address? I can't afford a car right now. Would your parents mind if I steal theirs? Piracy is wrong regardless of anything you could possibly say to defend it. Can't handle the time don't do the crime


I don't think that's the point being argued, so much as that if there is a punishment to be doled out, that it should _fit the crime_.

In other countries, speeding ticket fines are assessed based on a sliding scale tied to your income. So it'll hurt (relatively) equally, but be more expensive to the rich prick that could afford a 300+kph hypercar compared to the guy that was doing 50 in a 40 in a 20-year-old beater.

In the event of those that were under NDA, a fitting punishment would be revocation of their privileged access, and likely a loss of job, if not reassignment to another place. But punishing someone that isn't under an NDA to begin with? With what?


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## cots (Nov 27, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> I don't think that's the point being argued, so much as that if there is a punishment to be doled out, that it should _fit the crime_.
> 
> In other countries, speeding ticket fines are assessed based on a sliding scale tied to your income. So it'll hurt (relatively) equally, but be more expensive to the rich prick that could afford a 300+kph hypercar compared to the guy that was doing 50 in a 40 in a 20-year-old beater.
> 
> In the event of those that were under NDA, a fitting punishment would be revocation of their privileged access, and likely a loss of job, if not reassignment to another place. But punishing someone that isn't under an NDA to begin with? With what?



You can still be punished for copyright infringement for beaching a NDA. The NDA is simply a contract between you and the company. You're still legally responsible for your own actions. Seeings as it's Hate Crime to utter words like "I don't like you because you're an illegal alien" in certain states, which carries a high fine and a long jail sentence plus a felony criminal record that prevents you from employment and public assistance I think actually doing something illegal (not simply participating in free speech) is a legitimate reason to imprison someone. If I caught someone personally stealing from me they'd wish the only thing that would have happened to them was sitting in a jail for 5 years.

10-20 years ago the crimes the #metoo people are accusing people of were generally accepted by society if not completely overlook by authorities. Who knows. That may happen in another 10-20 years regarding software piracy. Maybe the kids would become obsessed with ruining the previous generations lives based on them doing stuff that was pretty much viewed as okay by the majority of society back when they were doing it.


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## codezer0 (Nov 27, 2019)

And, again... what about for those who never worked for them in the first place? The problem with this lawsuit is implying that Game Freak is pursuing damages against someone, or some people, that _never worked for them in the first place_, and thus had nothing to gain by keeping their secrets for them.


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## chrisrlink (Nov 27, 2019)

piracy isn't the point if it was they'd be going after the xci leakers not a damn strat guide leaker their just doing this to amass money for a possiable class action against them for false advertisments (not to mention the joycon drift lawsuit) that's their true motive in my mind corporate greed


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## cots (Nov 27, 2019)

codezer0 said:


> And, again... what about for those who never worked for them in the first place? The problem with this lawsuit is implying that Game Freak is pursuing damages against someone, or some people, that _never worked for them in the first place_, and thus had nothing to gain by keeping their secrets for them.



Copyright infringement isn't dependent on the infringers motivations. Unless they're lives were on the line and they were being forced to post the material there's no valid defense for their actions. There's no good reason you could come up to present to the Judge on why you committed the crime. Most of these "I'm above the law pirate types" who get caught usually crumble in front the Judge anyway. So replies from pirates defending their pale egos on this forum isn't going to change my viewpoints. Though, like I already stated, unless they scanned and posted the entire book I think a small fine would suffice, which is probably what's going to happen anyway. Now, if you're pirating the entire game then or were involved in leaking it and get put in front of the Judge none of your "group census on justifying pirating" is going to be able to defend you from facing the piper. Don't believe me? Go research lawsuits and criminal cases brought against video gaming pirates in the last 30 years and then get back to me on how many beat the charges.


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## The Real Jdbye (Nov 27, 2019)

I don't think they could get whoever it was based on the fact he leaked game info alone. Unless he was under some sort of NDA. But most likely a store broke release date and they are the ones who should be anwering to Nintendo.
All the guy who shared it did wrong was distributing warez (it's still copyright infringement even if it's just some scans). Something I think most of us have been guilty of at multiple points in time. And while you can certainly get prosecuted for that (see: https://gbatemp.net/threads/kongsnutz-my-story.361116/ ) that is the most they could get him for AFAIK.
Now if he was actually an employee at a mall or game store who leaked it, he might have been under some sort of NDA, and the punishment would likely be much stricter for that.


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## Sliter (Nov 27, 2019)

Garro said:


> Because in most cases, an agreement is signed to not disclose sensitive information and breaking such agreement leads to fining, that's why.
> 
> I'm actually shocked (and kinda ashamed) that some people are fine that a company is trying to sue (and therefore potentially destroying) an average person just for uploading some pictures and committing the terrible crime of spoiling people.


the thing is, the person knew that shouldn't have been doing that and did anyway, isn't because they got any early access that mean they are better than anyone that don't, and with that I think it's ok
And they are probably more doing that for probably avoid more alike in the future...
Idk I don't want any bad for no one, I just don't like the idea some can do want they want and get free with that XD if someone that work with t can't show his kids what they are working at, if it get  leaked and know he would suffer a lot from that, why someone complete ramdom can go and show everything lol


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## Fewtch22 (Nov 27, 2019)

So they're asking the community to squeal on the leakers?

Fat chance of that, unless someone has a grudge and also a hole for a heart.


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## Captain_N (Nov 27, 2019)

like it matters if images are leaked. i would have leaked them over a tor connection over a vpn if i had the pics. I would have leaked them just because.


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## Sheshomegrown (Nov 27, 2019)

cots said:


> If I caught someone personally stealing from me they'd wish the only thing that would have happened to them was sitting in a jail for 5 years.



Dude, you are in here saying that people should be put in prison and fined for taking pictures of a guide book, yet you still hint that you're gonna beat the living shit out of someone who steals something from you. What would be a good sentence for you? Surely beating someone should have a higher sentence than stealing materialistic things, yes?

Nice way of completely missing everyone's points..

I find it a little bit intriguing how important it is for you to defend money loss (that they can't even prove) for a multi-million dollar company. How is it that you feel more sorry for them than the person not affording bread, or the women and men in #metoo?


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## cots (Nov 27, 2019)

Sheshomegrown said:


> Dude, you are in here saying that people should be put in prison and fined for taking pictures of a guide book, yet you still hint that you're gonna beat the living shit out of someone who steals something from you. What would be a good sentence for you? Surely beating someone should have a higher sentence than stealing materialistic things, yes?
> 
> Nice way of completely missing everyone's points..
> 
> I find it a little bit intriguing how important it is for you to defend money loss (that they can't even prove) for a multi-million dollar company. How is it that you feel more sorry for them than the person not affording bread, or the women and men in #metoo?



I never said people should be put into prison for taking pictures of the guide book. What they are being threatened with is a civil offense. So there's no possibility of jail time. What I said is that people committing felonies by pirating software should be charged and jailed for committing the felonies. Seeings as a felony is a major crime. I also never stated what I would do to anyone that would steal from me. I just stated that after I'm done with them they'd wish they were in jail. I also have no problem for advocating violence when it's necessary. I never stated what I think about the people in #metoo's plight. I simply stated that what they are now going after people for doing was completely acceptable and okay back when it was happening to them. It may or may not have been legal, but just like software pirating a lot of people in society were doing it and no one cared while most authority figures simply looked the other way. It would just be funny if in 10-20 years the next generation places the same amount of value in software that the #metoo movement now places in in women. Seeings as you're advocating for piracy you might end up in jail some day. That would be a suiting end, do you not think?


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## anhminh (Nov 27, 2019)

So we are gonna protect criminal now because Pokemon bad?


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## HideoKojima (Nov 27, 2019)

goldensun87 said:


> The Pokemon Company can suck my dick.



I told you not to. Leak it...


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## FAST6191 (Nov 27, 2019)

anhminh said:


> So we are gonna protect criminal now because Pokemon bad?



Do you think that is an accurate reading of the situation? Leaving aside that this appears to be a civil case (as opposed to a criminal one) and that nobody has been convicted of anything yet

As it stands we saw some people obtain access to a guide book a few weeks ahead of publication. At this point we don't know if it was stolen, was deliberately leaked from people that were under contract or expectation of discretion (publishers, distributors, proof readers, their own employees, translations... that sort of thing) and the lawsuit is throwing around words dealing with the latter despite not showing any kind of evidence of this (nor any being visible -- no watermarks, no obvious hidden camera quality/angles...). Do we know one of those people did not leave it on a train* and this all stem from that? It could also just as easily have been a ROM (the Switch has been blown wide open at this point), review copy of a game and have someone poke around with the insides (how quick did we see save modders swoop in here? How quick have they traditionally moved in? Is it also not the sort of thing a competent reviewer might have noted in the first initial impressions?) but it wasn't here.

*sometimes companies do leave things in bars, trains... as a kind of marketing ploy (new pokemon game... yawn, secret leaked info from new pokemon game... at least 40% more people saying tell me more) and I can think of few better ways to get a nice bit of self contained info out there without leaking the ROM. I would hope they are not abusing courts in this way as it backfired on them here but I have been surprised in the past.

Nintendo or whatever their sock puppet is here alleges the leaks (of true info, presumably officially sourced, though not sanctioned at the time of release for release, at that) caused fewer people to buy the game and thus cost them money (if it is even true then how they will ever manage to generate vaguely accurate numbers for that I do not know), and now want some blood. This is viewed as somewhat dubious -- selections of a work might well still be a measure of copyright infringement (I might make an argument that it is critique of a sort or otherwise newsworthy and thus dodges some of those issues but that is harder) but at this point it is presumably only competing with an official guide (and again only a few pages). While some weeks for a movement to build up steam is nice for said movement to have whether it needs it in the modern world* is a different matter entirely -- just as we have people view films on a Thursday "pre screening" review the thing in their car in the car park outside/into a webcam when they get home, or indeed "live blog" their viewing, and in doing so see others change plans before the "opening" weekend we have people stay up all night and review games (are there really many games you can't get an impression of in a time sensitive reviewer run in about 8-12 hours? Is this one of those and even then would it matter?).

**many years back there was a fairly famous at the time internet film... I guess these days it would be blogger (this was prior to the term gaining any real traction, even among technical people) that often had film scripts, results of pre screenings and production notes "leaked" to them. Some credited him with being able to make or break films prior to launch and the film industry generally hated him and he was in news stories on national news (how I found out about him), he carried on for years though (and possibly still does). This sort of leaking and pre release speculation has happened repeatedly for for years for all sorts of things and I have next to nothing on any kind of legal case, sanctions or similar happening, and all that I do have tends to be dealing with those. I did recall another instance after my last post, and that was Apple going after a blogger a while back when they somehow wound up with some info about a music product (not a new phone, tablet, ipod or anything, just a minor league almost accessory) and Apple got slammed for that one too.

From where I sit the proper way to handle it was either do nothing and enjoy your pile of money or a day one patch (they presumably have all the art, all the data, all the everything already, and presumably just need to add on a few lines to a database, could possibly even have left them out of online if they did somehow care about "competitive"), even if it was not "within their artistic vision" or some nonsense like that.


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## Sheshomegrown (Nov 27, 2019)

cots said:


> Seeings as you're advocating for piracy you might end up in jail some day. That would be a suiting end, do you not think?



I have no idea how all the points keep flying over your head, but no, I am not advocating piracy. I am advocating sane punishments for lawful disorder.

Just because society one time thought that slaves were okay, it doesn't mean it was.

Just because society one time didn't see worth in women, it doesn't mean past behavior was okay.

Just because you think you have the right to do something worse than prison to a person stealing property doesn't mean you're standing above the law either.

Two wrongs does not make one right, and again, it would be great if you stopped comparing women's worth to software sold by multi-million dollar companies.



cots said:


> I just stated that after I'm done with them they'd wish they were in jail. I also have no problem for advocating violence when it's necessary.



This is what I am talking about. Somewhere you think it's okay to use violence on someone, but not to find a way to eat if you can't afford food. And somehow, using violence seems to be way more okay to you than to copy a 60 dollar game. To me that's utter insanity.


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## eskinner3742 (Nov 27, 2019)

Funny how sword and shield are climbing the sales as one of the highest grossing Pokemon games, maybe the leaks actually built hype for the game and swayed those on the fence about purchasing.


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## DANTENDO (Nov 27, 2019)

eskinner3742 said:


> Funny how sword and shield are climbing the sales as one of the highest grossing Pokemon games, maybe the leaks actually built hype for the game and swayed those on the fence about purchasing.


No mate just a new generation of pokemon fans included with the older generation of pokemon fans


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## DarkCoffe64 (Nov 27, 2019)

Same shit happened with Sun and Moon, but since those games got mostly positive attention, TPC didn't care much about their shit getting leaked...
Funny how people have shown before the game release that the game was gonna be crap, and TPC is blaming the leakers over it, by saying bs like "they've done us irreparable damage"?
Bitch please, your half assed game has sold like 3 or more billion copies whatever, you've got your wooloos buying your crap no matter the quality, stfu and go die in a hole.


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## HarveyHouston (Nov 27, 2019)

The Pokemon Company sends their little pocket monsters to eat the ones who leaked pre-release images of Sword and Shield.


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## MarkDarkness (Nov 28, 2019)

Pathetic


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## wiired24 (Nov 28, 2019)

Who does this actually help? Literally nobody. The only thing it does is generates animosity and backlash at "The Pokemon Company". It's not about "protecting Intellectual property" it's about getting back at some kids because you're big mad that you as a company failed to prevent a leak from happening in the first place. Pushing a lawsuit against some kids is just a waste of everyones time


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## DANTENDO (Nov 28, 2019)

wiired24 said:


> . The only thing it does is generates animosity and backlash at "The Pokemon Company".


What nonsense do you really think majority pokemon gamers even care Reading about this-do you really think majority of pokemon gamers even kno who the Pokemon Company is I bet majority of pokemon gamers think just Nintendo make pokemon


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## HinaNaru Cutie (Nov 28, 2019)

Chary said:


> View attachment 187935​
> Pokemon games tend to be an incredibly popular topic of discussion, no matter what, but with the dawn of a new generation, where information and unannounced Pokemon are slowly trickled out over months, or even kept secret until launch, fans were going wild with anticipation. This was especially true for Sword and Shield, which had a very contentious pre-release fervor to them. When images of the strategy guide for Pokemon Sword and Shield appeared on the internet, weeks prior to the games' official release, which was on November 15th, they went viral, as users posted them to every nook and cranny of social media and message board. Nintendo themselves even tried to get many sites to take those pictures down, citing the DMCA, to mild success. But by then, everyone had already saved the images and had distributed them even further across the internet.
> 
> 
> ...




_Lmao!! This is honestly sad, tbh. Doing this *now* after the major backlash their sword/shield cruddy game got -sigh_


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## jesus96 (Nov 28, 2019)

NOOOOOOOOO!,THEY LEAKED OUR N64 TREE'S! -GF


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