# The Return of the Game Genie



## loco365 (Dec 8, 2011)

> Even though the DS is gradually reaching the end of its lifecycle, some companies are still holding out hope for it. Atlus is one, as it’s planning to release Devil Survivor 2 in 2012. Hyperkin is the other, as it’s just announced its Game Genie DS, DSi and DSi XL cheat device. The Game Genie is a combination cheat code device, game save backup system and mp3 player. As long as you get yourself a microSD card and slip it into the cartridge, you can use this $19.99 device to back up your saves from your game cartridges, download cheat codes with its WiFi receiver or load it up with your favorite songs.
> 
> If you visit the Hyperkin Game Genie site, you can see a list of downloadable codes already available. It’s… a bit short. Alright, I’ll just say it. At the moment, the code list is lacking. A lot of recent releases, like Kirby Mass Attack, Harvest Moon: Tale of Two Towns and actually every Professor Layton game are absent. That will probably be fixed within the next few weeks and months, since this is a new product, but for now it’s a little disheartening to see so few recent releases on the list.






Source

I've had many, many different Game Genie devices (NES, SNES, and GB) but I never knew that a new company would try to re-issue the old thing. Wonder how well this device will fly? It does have MP3, save restore, and Wifi capabilities, so this will be interesting. Or will system updates render this device null and void?


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## Prof. 9 (Dec 8, 2011)

Pretty dumb move, imo. Everyone is already using the established Action Replay DS-syntax codes. They'd have to steal and convert all existing codes or work their asses off to create new ones. On top of that the cheat codes themselves are encrypted which is pointless and annoying imo. I don't expect this getting much community support, I think it'll just sink into obscurity like Codebreaker DS.

That said, I do wonder what kind of code types this device supports.


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## Nah3DS (Dec 8, 2011)

yeah!


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## Deleted member 473940 (Dec 8, 2011)

I REMEMBER! I think I had one for Sega or something.. has been a decade lol. Works in DS mode on the 3DS?
But yeah.. the list is.. pretty small


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## BlueStar (Dec 8, 2011)

Seem to remember it was made in a garage originally by two guys who lived near me.  Had one for my Game Gear which proudly shouted "Game Genie" in a Geordie accent when you turned it on.


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## shadowmanwkp (Dec 8, 2011)

*Game genie*
_Bending your pins since 1990_TM


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## Hadrian (Dec 8, 2011)

I wonder if Codemasters allowed them to steal the name of their device.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 8, 2011)

Man this is gonna bomb.
Action Replay is already an establish cheats device with codes supported in all manner of ways, they didn't even use a good looking genie for their package!
I don't think this is a market they could hope to penetrate, too late for the DS and all you know?

Besides, most people who wanna cheat and know best use a flashcart.


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## BORTZ (Dec 8, 2011)

Yeah i know some people out there are still dumb enough to buy this, but anyone serious like us know that cheats can be created on the fly with a flashcart.


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## Rydian (Dec 8, 2011)

And then there's old-school people like me who remember that game genie codes couldn't touch half the shit PAR/GS codes could anyways.


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## nl255 (Dec 8, 2011)

Rydian said:


> And then there's old-school people like me who remember that game genie codes couldn't touch half the shit PAR/GS codes could anyways.



Actually, game genie codes could do more than PAR/GS codes because PAR/GS were limited to RAM codes while the GG could modify ROM access as well.  The main limitation was that you only got 3 or 5 game genie codes to work with.  In other words, it was impossible to have an infinite lives code with the PAR/GS, the best you could do was "always have X lives" because it was impossible to do a "replace the subtract 1 from LIVES instruction with a noop" like you could with the GG.  The only reason that can be done today is because unlike the NES, SNES, Genesis, and Gameboy/Gameboy Advance the DS copies the game code into RAM rather than running it directly from the ROM.


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 8, 2011)

You'd think if they were going to use the name, they could have used the cool old logo as well. That logo looks like crap.


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## Sheimi (Dec 8, 2011)

I remember using Game Genie for Sega Genesis. I will buy this


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## Fear Zoa (Dec 8, 2011)

Don't cheaper flashcards do the same thing but with more features? Besides its way too late for something like this anyways


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## Hells Malice (Dec 8, 2011)

If it was a 3DS game genie...maybe it would be useful.

But Flashcarts do all it does, and more...for the same price, and they don't look hideous.
So, yeah, no thanks.


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## Rydian (Dec 9, 2011)

EDIT: Guys, this isn't just cheating, it has other features like save file loading/restoring on real carts, and while we can do that on flash carts on the DS/Lite, success is minimal or nonexistent on the DSi/3DS due to the lack of human-doable cart swap.



nl255 said:


> Actually, game genie codes could do more than PAR/GS codes because PAR/GS were limited to RAM codes while the GG could modify ROM access as well.  The main limitation was that you only got 3 or 5 game genie codes to work with.  In other words, it was impossible to have an infinite lives code with the PAR/GS, the best you could do was "always have X lives" because it was impossible to do a "replace the subtract 1 from LIVES instruction with a noop" like you could with the GG.  The only reason that can be done today is because unlike the NES, SNES, Genesis, and Gameboy/Gameboy Advance the DS copies the game code into RAM rather than running it directly from the ROM.


From what I've experienced and read up on (GS on GB/C, PAR and GG on SNES, GG on NES) it was the opposite, PAR could do RAM and ROM while GG could only do ROM.

The reason that most GS/PAR codes amount to "make this RAM value static" was because that's a lot easier of a code to find, and locking values to make lives infinite (for example) is often what people desired opposed to simply starting with more lives (to use the same example).


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## Zetta_x (Dec 9, 2011)

From my experiences too, half the codes I have made are unable to be ported to GG on SNES and NES. Games like Super Mario RPG, I was severly limited on what I could do with GG.

Either it's backwards from what nl255 said or they both have advantages and disadvantages


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 9, 2011)

What's the point of it being able to read MP3 files?



BlueStar said:


> Seem to remember it was made in a garage originally by two guys who lived near me.


Everything started off in a garage, I'm not surprised.
Protip: If you want to start something successful (?), get a garage.



Rydian said:


> EDIT: Guys, this isn't just cheating, it has other features like save file loading/restoring on real carts, and while we can do that on flash carts on the DS/Lite, success is minimal or nonexistent on the DSi/3DS due to the lack of human-doable cart swap.


Doesn't the Action Replay DSi already do that?
Unless the Game Genie DS supports backing up IR cards (HG/SS and B/W, mainly), there's no advantage.


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## Rydian (Dec 9, 2011)

Pingouin7 said:


> Doesn't the Action Replay DSi already do that?
> Unless the Game Genie DS supports backing up IR cards (HG/SS and B/W, mainly), there's no advantage.


I've seen more people with non-functional ARDSi's than I'd ever thought, and some have stated it was their second or third, so the ARDSi really has a bad name in some areas 'cause apparently they're just plain old Built Like Shit™.

Idunno' about IR carts, but seeing as the method to do that was figured out a few weeks after the games came out in NA it wouldn't surprise me if it worked for them.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 9, 2011)

Oh, and also...
ZTIOOT anyone?


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## loco365 (Dec 9, 2011)

Rydian said:


> Pingouin7 said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't the Action Replay DSi already do that?
> ...


I have one of those kinds of Action Replay units. It works, but I use it sparingly to prevent it from damaging/bricking itself.

I do hope that the GG DS has more to offer than the AR. It's make a nice music player.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 9, 2011)

Team Fail said:


> It's make a nice music player.


A nice music player that sticks out from the slot-1 by about 1 inch.
And anyway, if you need a music player, there are better ones for less than 20 bucks.
(Not to mention the R4, which costs at least 1/3 of that price.)

I had an ARDS of the kind that sticked out of Slot-1 by about as much as the Game Genie should, felt like I would break it/the slot-1 easily if I wasn't careful enough.
I wonder why they switched from having it stick out by half a centimeter to having a colossal fragile-looking plastic thing sticking out. I mean, the old design worked fine and everything fitted inside the  half-a-centimeter space.


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## Thesolcity (Dec 9, 2011)

Hells Malice said:


> If it was a 3DS game genie...maybe it would be useful.
> 
> But Flashcarts do all it does, and more...for the same price, and they don't look hideous.
> So, yeah, no thanks.



The only way to get one to run would be to hack it. AR DSi's use the same method flash carts use to boot.


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## loco365 (Dec 9, 2011)

Pingouin7 said:


> Team Fail said:
> 
> 
> > It's make a nice music player.
> ...


I do have an R4, but I can't use it atm because I need a


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 9, 2011)

Team Fail said:


> Pingouin7 said:
> 
> 
> > Team Fail said:
> ...


I myself would keep my DS in my pocket if I chose to listen to music on it.
But the Game Genie seems fragile enough that I wouldn't want to put my DS with it in my pocket because I might mess up and break it by accident.
But you might be someone who would keep it in a backpack or something, in which case the protruding part _shouldn't_ get in the way.

Also R4i-Gold and AK2i support >2GB and cost less than the Game Genie.
I'd probably even take a DS-X instead of Game Genie for listening to music (I believe Gamersection have DS-X for sale for like 13 bucks. Might get one there so I can put music/Pokémon distribution roms)


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## DSGamer64 (Dec 10, 2011)

I'd be more inclined to support something that works with the 3DS, which even Code Junkies has yet to release a cheat cartridge.


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 10, 2011)

DSGamer64 said:


> I'd be more inclined to support something that works with the 3DS, which even Code Junkies has yet to release a cheat cartridge.



That's because they have to wait for somebody else to figure out how to hack 3ds mode first, just like DSi. All they did for that was ripoff the method flashcarts use.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (Dec 10, 2011)

mysticwaterfall said:


> You'd think if they were going to use the name, they could have used the cool old logo as well. That logo looks like crap.


this x100. Completely agree, the old Galoob Game Genie had the best logo ever!


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## Sonia (Dec 21, 2011)

I'd buy it for nostalgia's sake. That and I'd like to see how well it functions. I missed the Game Genie and the Game Shark.


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## _Chaz_ (Dec 21, 2011)

Oh wow, nostalgia.


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## drgnslayers (Dec 22, 2011)

Not all AR DSi have the ability to backup or restore saves. I have one who lacks this ability. About the Game Genie, it uses the same codes as the CodeBreaker or the CodeCracker


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## shakirmoledina (Dec 24, 2011)

game genie was famous (as i know it) on the snes but after something like gba or similar, i didnt see too many game genie codes. ps2, ds etc all became famous with PAR especially because (i believe) there was more support and everyday u would see one game's code released. infact sometimes if u wanna know if a game is released, check if its code have been released.

but the fact remains tht game genie has brought a special concept to cheats and codes on earlier and newer systems


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## Ace Overclocked (Dec 24, 2011)

does it work for 3ds?


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## chartube12 (Dec 25, 2011)

http://www.gamegenie.com/

Game Genie never went away. *request topic title change*


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## Vampire Lied (Dec 29, 2011)

I think it's a bit late for them to target the ds.
3ds would have been impressive.
It's still cool to see the game Genie name be resurrected though.
Hopefully the future holds something good for GG.
If they somehow bring out one that works with 3ds mode or the vita, it may make a successful comeback.


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## alphamule (Dec 31, 2011)

It was later Action Replays that supported ROM codes?  The way it worked on Game Genie was that the circuit detected if you were reading from specific locations and then just replaced the value.  Something like a cache line that is deliberately 'dirty' in assembly programming terms.  The other device worked by sneaking a write to a list of RAM locations during an interrupt.  Later devices like the Game Shark for my N64 'mostly' had RAM codes but those weird 'master' codes were ROM codes I think...  although it may have been copying code to RAM and patching it there.   Someone would have to look into the patents to be sure.  PCs and such have always had both kinds of patches possible since hard drives are trivially writable and kernel drivers can usually control all processes' RAM.  

BTW:  I've used GameHack, ArtMoney, and Cheat Engine so far as game cheating programs go.  They're actually pretty useful for debugging, as well.  IDA and such sometimes have some issues...  But they're not meant for game cheats.

In theory, if one were trying to make a Game Genie like on the NES, here's one method:
1)  Store specially crafted values into dedicated RAM.  (Read:  XOR with original values)
2)  Have the RAM output all 0's unless input to some NAND gates matches specific values.  Think of !OE pin on RAMs.
3)  Have the value (address+ROM location's value) choose which item in RAM is output.
4)  XOR the output pins of the RAM with the value coming out of the ROM on the cartridge plugged into the 'Game Genie'.
This would take very little logic for an ASIC.  Rather they did something like this or something else entirely, I have no idea.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 31, 2011)

It says 3DS on the sticker.
So I assume it'd run on the 3DS.
It probably runs in DS mode, though.


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## Ace Overclocked (Jan 1, 2012)

Pingouin7 said:


> It says 3DS on the sticker.
> So I assume it'd run on the 3DS.
> It probably runs in DS mode, though.


just as i thought
does the AR max work on the 3ds?


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## drgnslayers (Jan 6, 2012)

My 3DS, who has firmwire version 3.0.0-6U, does not see my AR DSi but does see my 1st generation AR DS who has firmwire version 1.55. It won't read it and will say this:

Error Message: Error Has Occurred. Hold down the POWER Button to turn the power off.


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## Zombie_X (Jan 8, 2012)

Man o man this brings back memories! Though it looks like the Codebreaker DS... Better not be one as the CBDS sucked really bad.


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## Fishaman P (Jan 9, 2012)

Why the hell would they embed a Wi-Fi chip?  Why not just use the DS's?


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## Rydian (Jan 9, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> Why the hell would they embed a Wi-Fi chip?  Why not just use the DS's?


WEP/No security limitation?


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## supermariorick (Apr 12, 2012)

Sorry to bring back a months old topic, but you guys do realize it runs DS mode homebrew on all DS systems including 3DS, right?


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## Rydian (Apr 12, 2012)

Other than the ability to apply codes to retail carts while running on the DSi/3DS, I don't think it has anything over existing flash carts, which are likely much cheaper.


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## elgarta (Apr 12, 2012)

Pretty useless, especially since some flash carts actually offer cheat support and they do so much more, like play movies and homebrew. If this had come out earlier in the life cycle of the DS I imagine it would have done better...  But wasn't there already a cheat device released for the DS? I seem to remember seeing heaps of them in a Target store on a recent trip to San Diego


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 12, 2012)

Game Genie was awesome. Until I imported an Action Replay, and my mind was blown.


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## alphamule (Apr 17, 2012)

You should read the patents on the original Game Genie.  It seems that my description wasn't too far off.  The AR wasn't so good.  The PRO AR was - you could do RAM searches!
The newer cheat devices like the N64 GameShark added the ROM patching ability (needed for 'Master codes') to help you hack those 'cool codes' that plain RAM hacking can't easily do.  The multicheats and triggered cheats were also nice when they came out.  Multicheats are where you have a two-lined code that changes hundreds of bytes of memory based on a pattern.  This was great for RPGs like FF7.  You could also set a trigger to when the game read the gamepad input and certain bits were set.  Guess where this leads...  Yep, the so-called Joker codes that would only work when a button was pressed.  You could also read the button presses on the 'GS' button or a second player's controller like some of the easter eggs on the NES did (Pacman and SMB for example).  I seem to remember a system after the N64's original version of the Gameshark that the cheat device could alter ROM code in normal cheats and not just master codes.

Anyone remember running the Game Genie  AR conversion tools using the ROM image?
It's kind of easy to convert many Game Genie codes into AR since the original instructions at that location probably just modified some byte in RAM.  It also not too hard to convert AR codes into Game Genie if you can patch the interrupts.  You just have to insert some code in the unused part of the ROM that writes your values to RAM.  Sadly, the Game Genie usually only gave you 3-4 code lines so you had to be sneaky and not use the more obvious approach of using a 'detour'.  A code detour is where you change some jump to point to a different location, run your code there, and then jump to where the modified jump originally went.  Some codes were a lot harder to convert and you had to understand assembly language.  A debugger made this not too much harder than the easiest codes.  A good debugger made this a heck of lot less annoying - but most debuggers don't have good conditional breakpoints so are often tedious.  Break on write/read/execute is kind of basic.  Some basic debuggers don't even separate those 3 which really, really sucks for some kinds of hacking!   Some more advanced ones even let you say only trigger if certain values in RAM exist or certain code has already been run.  Yeah, No$Gameboy and IDA and Cheat Engine are sweet!


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## Rydian (Apr 17, 2012)

AR codes (at least for the SNES) contained the bank of memory modified.  7E was what most codes started with because that referred to the start of RAM, but you can find other codes that refer to ROM banks (often converted from GG), though with the advent of emulators most of the GG codes were simply kept as GG since conversion wasn't needed and in most cases you can use both code types at once since GG is internally converted to the address to modify anyways.

Also the fact that PAR used unencrypted codes helped in actually using the fucking thing to make codes. XD


PAR?
BANK:ADDRESS:VALUE
An example for Super Mario World...
7E001902
7E - RAM
0019 - Address for player powerup state.
02 - Value for the cape powerup
Bam.  There's your code.


GG?
Well, here's some source I wrote in PHP to convert game genie codes into their PAR equals, with some debug output so you can see the process.
(Yes I never got around to redoing this in something like python, sue me, it's late in the semester.)

```

```


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## alphamule (Apr 18, 2012)

They think they can keep selling you update discs...  The scam now is like "Antivirus" programs that quit working, regardless of if the virus came out before the last update you're entitled to.  Well OK, not that bad.  More like:  A compiler that refuses to compile after a certain date?  I've seen cheat devices that refuse to use codes simply because they changed the encryption key.  Of course, the new device either comes with updated codes or is able to use old ones.  That or you get double-shafted and can't even use the same cheats on older games.

The joke's on them since they charge full price for a 'rental' product and then expect to keep getting that.  "If you steal from your customers, they'll steal from you."   Thus the code decrypting/encrypting tools and all the complaints about customers disclosing their key.  (You can figure out the key if you have multiple versions of the exact same cheat - it's even easier if you know what encryption method they use - just create the code from scratch or decrypt a known codebook)

I agree - the reason I'd never buy one of those stupid things from *certain companies* is that they don't have any codes for months or years because they refuse to let people easily make their own.  If the game isn't mainstream, you're pretty much screwed!  RAM addresses are RAM addresses.  You should be able to just use and not need to convert the single-address codes.  I could understand the ranged or trigger codes, though.  Sometimes you have to change the digits for the code 'mode' since some devices only did bytes and another did pairs (16-bit codes) or similar but that's trivial to do if you have unencrypted codes and read the manuals.  A manual that doesn't tell you what code types exist is a worthless POS, hehe.

The funny bit is them trying to copyright the codes which aren't exactly hard to find (unless your cheat device is worthless and doesn't do searches) and like a phone number (or better:  physical address) are strictly raw data and not an expression of that data.  Copying code books I could see them complaining about (very illegal since you're copying the layout, text, fonts, and so on), but copying the raw numbers is a different matter.  This has been stated over and over and over again in courts but still you see people try it figuring they'll get lucky and find a judge or 2 who doesn't know any better.  The bi**h is that they can cheat the system and try for DMCA-type attacks since they often encrypt the codes.  Never mind that once you have a search tool, most codes only take minutes to find, even without knowing the values or format of data.  In other words, the popular codes (infinite lives/health/money/start with all items) could be discovered without even knowing about the original code's existence.  Not exactly 'original'.  :grin:  

BTW Plagiarism doesn't need copyright violations so you're still a thief if you don't mention your sources.  I could see a contributor getting their stuff nuked by mods if it was blatant.  I don't like the definition here because they act like it's only a copyright issue.  You can plagiarize William Shakespeare and still be a thief!  A rather obvious one and of a poor work to steal at that.   Wikipedia has a slightly more extensive definition and examples but it's Wikipedia so you have to check the references and trust that internal politics doesn't get involved in the editing process.  Oh, and it mentions why in the Wikipedia article that stealing from that dead white man is so funny for those that didn't get the reference.


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