# Team Ninja Would Like To Make Another Metroid Game



## Gahars (Aug 18, 2012)

Team Ninja, most famous for the Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden franchises, took up the deveoping reins for Metroid: Other M. The game was... controversial, to say the least, with the storyline and portrayal of Samus taking the most criticism.

Well, now they want another go at it.



> Yosuke Hayashi, currently working as a director on Dead or Alive 5, was asked about a future Metroid game and had this to say:
> 
> “Unfortunately Metroid is kind of out of our league as it’s Nintendo’s game, but we’re still in close touch with co-creator Sakamoto-san [Yoshio Sakamoto, one of Nintendo's key developers], so we want to do something with him moving forward definitely. It really depends on what he wants to do with the game first.”







Game Trailers

Good thing I've been authorized to express my reaction, or I would have no way of posting this gif.


Spoiler


----------



## GameWinner (Aug 18, 2012)

This is a very late April fools joke.
A not so funny joke at that.


----------



## chavosaur (Aug 18, 2012)

Team ninja, just stick to your scantily clad fighting genre and leave my metroid alone...


----------



## Clarky (Aug 18, 2012)

If they knew what was wrong with Other M and was sure they could fix it I would say let them have a try at it. I didn't mind Other M too much besides the silly plot, trying to use a 3d set up on a 2d (why not just make the game side scrolling?) and the point at the screen bits


----------



## yuyuyup (Aug 18, 2012)

I wouldn't mind if they learned their god damn lesson and wouldn't further **** the franchise by ****ing away the fucking challenge/exploration/story

self sensored so my post doesn't get ****ed away by the gbatemp god squad


----------



## heartgold (Aug 18, 2012)

Sure, i didn't have any complaints on their previous workload.


----------



## Izzy011 (Aug 18, 2012)

I read that as Ninja Theory instead of Team Ninja. Either outcome would still be unfavorable. 
I feel Other M is the reason Metroid isn't getting a proper 25th Anniversary something


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 18, 2012)

Good lord they must be joking. Other M was horrible. Like there's almost nothing redeeming about it. In retrospect, the gameplay was horrible, the story was atrocious, and the characters ranged from either two dimensional or stereotypical, or both.

Considering Team Ninja hasn't exactly been doing stellar with their games since Other M (cough Ninja Gaiden 3 cough), I really hope they never touch this franchise again.


----------



## Fear Zoa (Aug 18, 2012)

Or...you know we can give retro studios metroid again. They actually know what to do with it after all.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Aug 18, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Good lord they must be joking. Other M was horrible. Like there's almost nothing redeeming about it. In retrospect, the gameplay was horrible, the story was atrocious, and the characters ranged from either two dimensional or stereotypical, or both.
> 
> Considering Team Ninja hasn't exactly been doing stellar with their games since Other M (cough Ninja Gaiden 3 cough), I really hope they never touch this franchise again.



Actually, you can blame Nintendo for the story/scenario, which was done by Yoshio Sakamoto of Nintendo. Team Ninja was only involved with programming and 3D modeling.


----------



## Wombo Combo (Aug 18, 2012)

Other M was good so I am all for another game from them. I just think its popular to hate the game it was not that bad as people make it out to be.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 18, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Good lord they must be joking. Other M was horrible. Like there's almost nothing redeeming about it. In retrospect, the gameplay was horrible, the story was atrocious, and the characters ranged from either two dimensional or stereotypical, or both.
> ...



Oh I blame them both but the influences of both teams can be seen. And those influences were shit.




Wombo Combo said:


> Other M was good so I am all for another game from them. I just think its popular to hate the game it was not that bad as people make it out to be.



No it's just good to dislike sexist pieces and shit games.


----------



## Eerpow (Aug 18, 2012)

Nintendo will most definitely not let them handle that series after the reception Other: M got.


----------



## Gahars (Aug 18, 2012)

Runner up reaction gif:


Spoiler









Anyway, I'd say Other M was a case where both Team Ninja and, especially, Yoshio Sakamoto (Writer, Director, Producer) were at fault for delivering a bad game. The franchise is better off out of their hands.


----------



## Master Mo (Aug 18, 2012)

I thought Other M was awesome so I wouldn`t mind it... I don`t give a shit if Samus dies because Adam didn`t gave her permission to use something. Didn`t really mind that.

Imo keep the controls and combat and structure it like Super or Prime1 and it could be one of the best Metroids as of yet... But who knows.

But first of all Nintendo has to do a 2D Metroid for 3DS!!!


----------



## chavosaur (Aug 18, 2012)

Im just curious as to what will come next for the franchise. All of the games have really tied up most loose ends of the storyline, are we just going to be subjected to more backstory information? Or can we expect the series to launch off into a new direction?
Also, i'm wondering if Metroid is going to become an FPS in all future games, or if we will go back to side scrolling games.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Aug 18, 2012)

Hell no. Let Retro make more Metroid games, not Team Ninja.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Aug 18, 2012)

Like Eminem said, you only get one shot.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 18, 2012)

HELL FUCKING NO if nintendo allows this i'll disown them forever


----------



## Dork (Aug 18, 2012)

Other M wasn't even bad, I wouldn't mind it, but Retro are the brains. Even though the Prime series is finished, it would be nice to see a new metroid game with similar gameplay to it.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Aug 18, 2012)

Other M wasn't really a bad game. It just wasn't a game I'd consider of Metroid caliber.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Aug 18, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Good lord they must be joking. Other M was horrible. Like there's almost nothing redeeming about it. In retrospect, the gameplay was horrible, the story was atrocious, and the characters ranged from either two dimensional or stereotypical, or both.
> 
> Considering Team Ninja hasn't exactly been doing stellar with their games since Other M (cough Ninja Gaiden 3 cough), I really hope they never touch this franchise again.


Story was bad but it wasn't even the worst part, it was the writing, translation and presentation that sucked. They completely ruined Samus's character.


----------



## frogboy (Aug 18, 2012)

If they can learn from their huge, horrible mistake, this game might be worth looking at.

If not...


----------



## Ergo (Aug 18, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> No it's just good to dislike sexist pieces and shit games.



This just might be the most ridiculous thing I've read, at least in the past 7 days (which is pretty good, considering this is the Internet).

But sexist? Really? So any woman that is anything at all like Samus, irl*, is sexist, too? Really?

*No, really, they exist, and I'll be sure to inform at least one of them that she's sexist for behaving the way she does. I'll be sure to tell her that's what the Internet thinks so then, at least, she can just laugh as hard as I am.

Oh, and +10 for the hyperbole.


----------



## pubert09 (Aug 18, 2012)

I liked Other M so I'm good with that. Just keep it a side scrolling metroid.
I didn't like the Metroid Prime series because of the first person style, but the use of first person in Other M was nice for me.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 18, 2012)

Looks like Team Ninja is at it again!


----------



## RupeeClock (Aug 18, 2012)

I think Other M's problems stemmed more from Sakamoto's choices rather than what Team Ninja did.
Sakamoto's story writing completely conflicted with natural gameplay progression.

Whose damned idea was it to play the game with a sideways wii remote only anyway? Every Wii system comes with a nunchuk, this was inexcusable.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> I think Other M's problems stemmed more from Sakamoto's choices rather than what Team Ninja did.
> Sakamoto's story writing completely conflicted with natural gameplay progression.
> 
> Whose damned idea was it to play the game with a sideways wii remote only anyway? Every Wii system comes with a nunchuk, this was inexcusable.



Yeah, no kidding.And here I thought the controller layout for Sonic and the Secret Rings was jacked up. Metroid Prime was the better of the 3D iterations, Other: M was just weird, but that "Remember me?" dude just gave it plenty of exploitable meme material to work with.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 19, 2012)

i want metroid prime 4 NOA keep 2d metroid on the damn 3ds!


----------



## dgwillia (Aug 19, 2012)

Dear god Nintendo, dont let them do it.....

Make a new (And good) Ninja Gaiden. Metroid, AND Team Ninja will be dead to me if they do this shit again.


----------



## Hells Malice (Aug 19, 2012)

After they screwed and killed the Ninja Gaiden series, i'd be surprsied if Nintendo let them kill one of theirs.

Stick to boob physics TN, it's all you've got left.


----------



## DSGamer64 (Aug 19, 2012)

chavosaur said:


> Team ninja, just stick to your scantily clad fighting genre and leave my metroid alone...



Hey, Zero Suit Samus with bouncing boobs would be awesome!

/sarcasm


----------



## Clydefrosch (Aug 19, 2012)

go for it. the more the merrier


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Aug 19, 2012)




----------



## Vampire Lied (Aug 19, 2012)

no no no no NO! And did I mention....................FUCK NO!
doax3, yes. another metroid by them will be another i won't bother to buy. (UNLESS it's a sidescroller on 3ds )


----------



## Castiel (Aug 19, 2012)

Other M wasn't nearly as good as other games in the franchise, but I still very much enjoyed it. I found it very unique, and the way they put the story for Other M in between two other games and made it so flawlessly was very impressive. My brother and I watched all the cutscenes for Other M last night (it was so long it was like watching an actual movie) and I thoroughly enjoyed it. As for the appearance of Samus herself, I actually gave Team Ninja props as they didn't make her boobs hang out of her Zero Suit.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 19, 2012)

No, no, no, for the love of all that's holy, no. I like *DSGamer64's *idea though...


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't care what anyone says - _bring on the hate_, but I loved Other M. Sure, it showed an overly-victimized and weak Samus that was too dependant on Adam, but gameplay-wise I would not change a single thing. Rarely did I play a better combination of side-scrolling action, platforming, third person and first person shooters. It had its hiccups with the execution of the storyline, but when you think about it, the story wasn't half-bad. Not only that, the game looked amazing on the Wii - I can't even begin to think how it'd look like on the WiiU. Even young Samus sort of made sense - she wasn't the cold bounty hunter we know and love back then - it was these events that forged her into an ass-whooping machine, so I actually enjoyed having a glance at her more human, more feminene side. They overdid it, granted, but at least they showed her as a person rather than a walking tank.

A lot of people hate on Other M because it tried to be "different", but you should expect that when grabbing a game that's clearly labeled _Other M_. It was an experience in itself and at the same time, a blast from the past on side-scrolling and FPS sections and I loved it, I'd give Team Ninja another go anytime - go for it!

They know their source material, they know what the fans complained about, they know what to improve. I say give them a chance, because their product wasn't downright bad like people claim it was - it was simply different.


----------



## Sevael (Aug 19, 2012)

Other M was a lot of fun.  IMO, it was a much better 3D version of Metroid than the Prime series ever was.

I've been playing Metroid games since 1986, so what feels "Metroid" to me will differ from a lot of the younger gamers who started with later entries in the series.  The Prime games just didn't feel like Metroid to me, didn't give me any of the great nostolgic feelings I was hoping for.  Other M, however, made me feel like I was finally playing a true 3D Metroid game.  All that nostalgia came back.  It had fast fluid gameplay, tricks with grappling/wall jumping/bomb climbing/shinesparking to get hidden items, lots of verticality and platforming, etc.  While the gameplay would have benefited from analog stick control and more than two buttons, it was still a whole lot of fun.  And run through an emulator at 1080p, the game looked great:



Spoiler: 1080p image













Spoiler: 1080p image













Spoiler: 1080p image













Spoiler: 1080p image











Sure, the story was kind of lame, but nobody plays Metroid games for the story (I hope).  I gave up on Metroid's story when they adopted the old Nintendo Power comic as canon and turned Samus into a sissy.  I preferred it back when she was a completely mysterious bad-ass bounty hunter that could do the toughest jobs that nobody else could.  That was all the backstory as this character ever needed IMO.

Anyway, I say bring on more Team Ninja Metroid games!


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Sevael said:


> And run through an emulator at 1080p, the game looked great:



That actually looks kinda bland. Textures are really bad and it feels overly glossy and low tech.

Also did I mention that this game was bad?


----------



## DiscostewSM (Aug 19, 2012)

If the game had more detailed textures in those 1080p images, one could mistake the game as a PS3 or 360 game.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> If the game had more detailed textures in those 1080p images, one could mistake the game as a PS3 or 360 game.



"Mistaking" something for a Xbox 360 or PS3 doesn't make it look good. It just makes it look like a good Wii game.


----------



## Hadrian (Aug 19, 2012)

Some things I'd like to say.

1. It wasn't just the god awful story story that killed the game, it was the overall gameplay & level design that truly ruined the game. Fusion had a shit story but it played great and for me is the 2nd best 2D Metroid.
2. It felt like a C grade game, it played like something you'd get in the bargain bin for £5.99.
3. Production values were of a low quality, it didn't feel like something Nintendo had anything to do with at all.
4. No fucking way is this game remotely better than any of the Prime games, even Hunters was better than this...even the Pinball game was better than this.
5. This game only looks like a PS3/360 game if A. you've only played budget releases on those platforms. B. You've only played games that were also ported to PC but your PC can only play them on low settings. C Your eyesight is piss poor. I wouldn't even say it looked good as a PS2 game, take a look at Ico, SotC or GoW and you'll see how bland it still looks compared to those games.

As for "true 3d version of Metroid"...nope not at all. Metroid is about a hunter being isolated in a world, this didn't have that. Prime did, Prime IS the perfect 3D replication of Metroid. Everything about the game is Metroid from sound, gameplay, puzzles. bosses everything. People just say it's not Metroid because of the perspective but Retro & Nintendo tested the hell out of it and it was that perspective that they felt could work for the series and they were right. 

You really would not believe how much I tried to like Other M but it's a trashy game through and through. At best you could say it's mediocre and that's if you're someone who hasn't had much gaming experience.


----------



## Sevael (Aug 19, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> As for "true 3d version of Metroid"...nope not at all. Metroid is about a hunter being isolated in a world, this didn't have that. Prime did, Prime IS the perfect 3D replication of Metroid. Everything about the game is Metroid from sound, gameplay, puzzles. bosses everything. People just say it's not Metroid because of the perspective but Retro & Nintendo tested the hell out of it and it was that perspective that they felt could work for the series and they were right.


So for you, what makes a game "Metroid" is the theme?  See, that's not what makes a game Metroid to me.  For me, it's mostly about the gameplay.

The concept for Prime was correct – a lone warrior infiltrating a planetary maze and finding upgrades and defeating enemies and bosses.  But it still didn't have the right feel to me.  There was lots of sunshine and birds in the sky and it just didn't feel dark or creepy or dramatic a lot of the time.  The flora and fauna were too much; the planet felt too alive and busy.  It didn't feel desolate.

The first-person perspective didn't hurt the theme in Prime.  But that _did_ lead to the game's biggest problem – the limited gameplay.  For me, Metroid has always been about fast and fluid acrobatic gameplay with lots of platforming (vertical as much as horizontal), and you just can't do that very well in first-person view.  The gameplay in Prime felt very slow and clunky compared to the 2D games.  Platforming was a chore; jumping was imprecise and you didn't ever feel nimble or acrobatic.  It felt like playing a walking tank – slow, lumbering and heavy on the firepower.  It didn't feel like you were playing as someone with the type of amazing acrobatic abilities Samus had in the 2D games.  You just couldn't move through areas with the same speed and grace.  That's what ruined it for me – it just didn't feel like I was controlling _Samus Aran_.

Some of my fondest gaming memories are of playing Super Metroid, doing crazy flips and wall jumps and mid-air morph ball maneuvers, all while handily dispatching enemies at the same time.  I loved making Samus look like she was supposed to be – _the best there is_.  She was like a superhuman ninja; quick, nimble, able to dash and flip and rebound off walls at high speed, and be blasting enemies all the while.  Even the Smash Bros games supported this idea of a very quick and dexterous Samus.  Then Other M comes along with this same type of speedy and nimble Samus.  Sign me up!

We all have different reasons for liking Metroid games, and the things I liked most about the 2D games were all present in Other M.  The gameplay was solid; it may have suffered a bit from only four-directional control, but it was fast, fluid and very precise.  I could move through the platforming areas with ease, wall jump and grapple on the fly, and dispatch enemies with speed and skill that makes Samus look like she's the only one in the galaxy who could.  Other M played well and felt good.  That's what makes it a great Metroid game for me.  Maybe it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I loved it.

I wish I liked the Prime games, but I didn't.  That's my loss.  But my gain is Other M, and hopefully more Team Ninja Metroid games in the future.


----------



## SnAQ (Aug 19, 2012)

This isnt going to be very informative:

Other M > Prime


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (Aug 19, 2012)

chavosaur said:


> Team ninja, just stick to your scantily clad fighting genre and leave my metroid alone...


A scantily clad Samus doesn't sound too bad


----------



## DiscostewSM (Aug 19, 2012)

As much as we want them not to, we have no decision in the matter.


----------



## Hadrian (Aug 19, 2012)

Sevael said:


> -snip-


Reading that makes me think you haven't played any of the Prime games other than Hunters.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

I wanna know how many of the Other M haters have actually played Other M, and how many are just hating on it because the godly G4 and Game Informer gave it bad scores.


----------



## Hadrian (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> I wanna know how many of the Other M haters have actually played Other M, and how many are just hating on it because the godly G4 and Game Informer gave it bad scores.


Anyone with common sense would play a game regardless of reviews. This is a series where if someone gave a game in it a bad review, they would just ignore it.


----------



## Master Mo (Aug 19, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> ...
> 2. It felt like a C grade game, it played like something you'd get in the bargain bin for £5.99.
> 3. Production values were of a low quality, it didn't feel like something Nintendo had anything to do with at all.
> ...


Haven`t heard an boundless exaggeration like this in a long time. And in that case we definitely are talking about objective matters...

Also I don`t see why people who like OM "hate" on Prime and vise versa. I think in their own fashion both games felt like Super. But Prime had a better over all structure imo.

I love Prime (probably in my Top10 games of all time - no definitely) but people get so worked up about OM that I kinda feel they didn`t get the mechanics of the game, which were very thought out imo. Quality wise to come back to the statement I just quoted OM definitely is among the Top3 Wii-games!!! I cannot see how anyone would deny that, despite the probability of not liking the gameplay and mechanics!


----------



## pasc (Aug 19, 2012)

Lololol I was thinking: DONT HAVE THIS SENTENCE CONTAIN METROID !!!
and look what it came to xD

Man... we need a good Metroid again, preferably a MPH on 3DS  

+ a remake of all metroids


----------



## Arm73 (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm also one of those who enjoyed Other M.
Sure I've been playing every metroid game to date ( I actually played the Nes Metroid in 1986 when it was brand new , I'm old ! ) and even though team ninja tried to do something different ( innovation ? ) they did stay true to the game fundamentals and and all in all I really liked the experience, so much in fact that all this talking about other M makes me want to play it trough one more time, which is something I very rarely do ! ( I might skip trough the cut scenes though  ).
So I'd say let's give team ninja another chance, they had something good going on, and if they refine the game elements a little bit more, we could actually have a winner on the Wii U.


----------



## DCG (Aug 19, 2012)

I have the prime trillogy and I realy love those games, the original 2d style is ok aswell.
The only thing I hated with Other M (don't have it, yet) is that they changed something big to the plot, you had all you upgrades, but you weren't allowed to use them?!?!?!
Otherwise it looked realy good.

I think a cooperation of Team Ninja and Retro Studio's could make one hell of a killer (and I also want one on the 3DS  ) : p   )


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Master Mo said:


> I love Prime (probably in my Top10 games of all time - no definitely) but people get so worked up about OM that I kinda feel they didn`t get the mechanics of the game, which were very thought out imo. Quality wise to come back to the statement I just quoted OM definitely is among the Top3 Wii-games!!! I cannot see how anyone would deny that, despite the probability of not liking the gameplay and mechanics!



Mechanics aside it was a horrible plot that ruined a great character. A bad plot can be passable if it isn't a focus. Here they shoved hours of cutscenes in your face.

Also a lot of the mechanics were horrible. Combat was a joke, all you had to do was mash the D-Pad and fire button and you dodged all the attacks and kept firing at them. Switching to the first person by twirling the remote to face the screen completely breaks the flow of combat and feels cumbersome. Using a D-Pad to navigate a 3D environment is a horrible decision when an analog stick (the nunchuck) is readily available. First person segments were tedious and boring.

It was easily the worst Metroid game.

EDIT: And quality wise, I wouldn't say it makes the top three for Wii games. There's plenty of things that looked better and quality extends past graphics and cutscenes. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories gets up there pretty high if we're talking purely graphics. Not to mention Super Mario Galaxy, its sequel, even some other things like Red Steel 2. The game just felt overly glossy and shiny. Very "plastic".


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Master Mo said:
> 
> 
> > I love Prime (probably in my Top10 games of all time - no definitely) but people get so worked up about OM that I kinda feel they didn`t get the mechanics of the game, which were very thought out imo. Quality wise to come back to the statement I just quoted OM definitely is among the Top3 Wii-games!!! I cannot see how anyone would deny that, despite the probability of not liking the gameplay and mechanics!
> ...


question, why is the d pad bad for controlling it? Also, if they would have made the nunchuck an option people would accidentally point their wiimote at the screen and make it go first person. and the first person doesn't break the flow of combat, i think of it as switching to first person in super mario sunshine and the 3d zelda games. do you hate those too? does switching to first person (or over the shoulder in sunshine, basically the same) in those games break the flow of combat?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> question, why is the d pad bad for controlling it? Also, if they would have made the nunchuck an option people would accidentally point their wiimote at the screen and make it go first person. and the first person doesn't break the flow of combat, i think of it as switching to first person in super mario sunshine and the 3d zelda games. do you hate those too? does switching to first person (or over the shoulder in sunshine, basically the same) in those games break the flow of combat?



The D-Pad doesn't flow smoothly in a 3D environment, that's a fact. Anyone whose tried playing Super Mario 64 DS vs. Super Mario 64 (on the N64) can tell you this. It's a fact.

They would toggle going into first person mode as a button. Like you hold Z to go into the first person mode. Also the first person in Zelda games is horrible as it is in Super Mario Sunshine.

The difference in those games as well as is that combat isn't made to be good or even a focus. Here, it's made by fucking Team Ninja, who are known for combat systems (or at least making them look good). So it doesn't break the flow of combat in games where combat isn't an issue but it does here. And it doesn't help any of them for being terrible when there are much better options. Aiming in Twilight Princess was infinitely better than any other Zelda game and Super Mario Sunshine's FLUUD was a dumb mechanic anyway. I also hate Sunshine.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > question, why is the d pad bad for controlling it? Also, if they would have made the nunchuck an option people would accidentally point their wiimote at the screen and make it go first person. and the first person doesn't break the flow of combat, i think of it as switching to first person in super mario sunshine and the 3d zelda games. do you hate those too? does switching to first person (or over the shoulder in sunshine, basically the same) in those games break the flow of combat?
> ...


You're a real negative nancy. You should cheer up sometime. It's good for you.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> You're a real negative nancy. You should cheer up sometime. It's good for you.



I'm a realist. I'd rather acknowledge a bad game than blindly ignore all the bad aspects for the sake of not being a "negative Nancy".


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > You're a real negative nancy. You should cheer up sometime. It's good for you.
> ...


But you're wrong. It's not a bad game. And Super Mario 64 DS's controls sucked because that game relies on the analog controls for controlling Mario's speed. For tricky platforming. So you don't fall into the lava and die. But you don't need that in MM.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> But you're wrong. It's not a bad game. And Super Mario 64 DS's controls sucked because that game relies on the analog controls for controlling Mario's speed. For tricky platforming. So you don't fall into the lava and die. But you don't need that in MM.



Saying "you're wrong" and not refuting many of my points isn't a good argument.

It doesn't help Other M's movement either. It felt clunky and it was a bad design decision. There's no avoiding that and it detracts from the game.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > But you're wrong. It's not a bad game. And Super Mario 64 DS's controls sucked because that game relies on the analog controls for controlling Mario's speed. For tricky platforming. So you don't fall into the lava and die. But you don't need that in MM.
> ...


But it didn't feel clunky at all. It felt very fast and fluid. Maybe you just weren't good at the game...


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> But it didn't feel clunky at all. It felt very fast and fluid. Maybe you just weren't good at the game...



No, it was definitely clunky, and it makes no sense as to why they wouldn't use an analog. As I mentioned before, D-Pads are inferior in this respect and this was a bad decision on their part.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > But it didn't feel clunky at all. It felt very fast and fluid. Maybe you just weren't good at the game...
> ...


They didn't use analog because then people would inadvertently point their Wiimotes at the screen, thus inadvertently going into first person. Like I said earlier. Why do you think analog would have helped it?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> They didn't use analog because then people would inadvertently point their Wiimotes at the screen, thus inadvertently going into first person. Like I said earlier. Why do you think analog would have helped it?



If you bothered reading, my solution was to toggle first person mode to a button so players can switch between it seamlessly. Of course that would still feel cumbersome but it's better than having to turn your whole controller around. Or even better, just have you hold down a button to allow you to use the pointer to tag opponents as targets for missiles while in the third person then release to shoot them.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > They didn't use analog because then people would inadvertently point their Wiimotes at the screen, thus inadvertently going into first person. Like I said earlier. Why do you think analog would have helped it?
> ...


So I take it you despise Super Paper Mario with a passion as well then?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Lanlan said:
> ...



Super Paper Mario was pretty bad but I don't see what that has to do with anything.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


Did you hate it because you had to turn the Wiimote to point at the screen for some parts?


----------



## Elrinth (Aug 19, 2012)

AFAIK they weren't responsible for the silly plot.
I think the gameplay was pretty good and I'd be totally okay with another game. However, the plot was just... crap


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> Did you hate it because you had to turn the Wiimote to point at the screen for some parts?



I hated it because it wasn't a RPG like it was supposed to be and instead was a substandard, boring platformer.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > Did you hate it because you had to turn the Wiimote to point at the screen for some parts?
> ...


Are you so negative because communism works in theory but fails in practice?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> Are you so negative because communism works in theory but fails in practice?



Are you trying to troll or did your mother drop you on your head as a child?


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Lanlan said:
> 
> 
> > Are you so negative because communism works in theory but fails in practice?
> ...


Dude not cool...



I would never troll


----------



## DCG (Aug 19, 2012)

guys, if you're going to troll and flame. Please use the DM/PM function.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

DCG said:


> guys, if you're going to troll and flame. Please use the DM/PM function.



Don't worry, we're done here.


----------



## Arras (Aug 19, 2012)

In my opinion, the main flaws of this game were:
-The gimmicky first person mode
-Dpad (I like Dpads, but not for 3D) It worked pretty well in long corridors, but it was annoying to navigate with it in large open rooms.
-The story
-Too linear
-Game-breaking bug

The game itself was decent. I think if they use the same formula but improve those points and possibly add a few new upgrades that suit the semi-3d thing better it could be a very good game. And throw out the first person altogether, it was horrible for combat - unless you can walk in first person, of course.


----------



## Wintrale (Aug 19, 2012)

Master Mo said:


> I don`t give a shit if Samus dies because Adam didn`t gave her permission to use something.



Samus doesn't need permission from anyone to do anything. 

I never actually played Other M. Everyone kept whining about it and they were never very clear on why they were whining about it, but that much whining is a put off.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Wintrale said:


> Master Mo said:
> 
> 
> > I don`t give a shit if Samus dies because Adam didn`t gave her permission to use something.
> ...



Hadrian put a pretty nice list together a page or two ago.

Also in the game, there's a segment where Samus runs through a fiery volcano hellscape while taking damage constantly simply because Adam didn't give her permission yet to turn on her envirosuit to withstand the heat. That alone explains mostly why this game is shit.


----------



## Lanlan (Aug 19, 2012)

Wintrale said:


> Master Mo said:
> 
> 
> > I don`t give a shit if Samus dies because Adam didn`t gave her permission to use something.
> ...


The game's great, play it, ignore the people that say it's bad, they are completely and utterly wrong in every way.


----------



## Gahars (Aug 19, 2012)

Ergo said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > No it's just good to dislike sexist pieces and shit games.
> ...



How is a game that turns Samus (one of the most revered and iconic female characters in gaming, and previously characterized as strong and independent) into a weak, fragile, and codependent woman unable to function without a man around *not* blatantly sexist and misogynist?

If you really know someone exactly like that, you shouldn't be making snide jokes at the internet's expense; you should be getting her help.


----------



## Master Mo (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The D-Pad doesn't flow smoothly in a 3D environment, that's a fact. Anyone whose tried playing Super Mario 64 DS vs. Super Mario 64 (on the N64) can tell you this. It's a fact.


I disagree... Mario64 was design for you to move analogue. Other M wasn`t, since when there were bosses you usually automatically moved around it by pressing left or right and if you where in an enviroment usually even if the path moves a bit to one side or the other you still are fine if you keep moving in the same direction. They clearly scripted her movement to some degree, which I thought was fascinating and very well executed.

So essentially as I said Mario64 was never ment to be played with a d-pad but Other M clearly was and even if you would swop the controls of OM into d-pad-controls (by a hack or something) it would take the tightness of them away and make the controls sloppy. So imo your comparison wasn`t very fitting.

Also the movement mechanic is something in particular that I found extremely well done!


----------



## Clarky (Aug 19, 2012)

Gahars said:


> How is a game that turns Samus (one of the most revered and iconic female characters in gaming, and previously characterized as strong and independent) into a weak, fragile, and codependent woman unable to function without a man around *not* blatantly sexist and misogynist?



I know its a shit story but perhaps she refused to "function without a man around" was due to the respect she had for Adam? Trouble with Other M is it made Samus human, before in Metroid games you was given the basis info and allowed to join the dots to make Samus whatever character you wanted


----------



## Arm73 (Aug 19, 2012)

Master Mo said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > The D-Pad doesn't flow smoothly in a 3D environment, that's a fact. Anyone whose tried playing Super Mario 64 DS vs. Super Mario 64 (on the N64) can tell you this. It's a fact.
> ...



Exactly, the game was built from ground up with this control scheme in mind, and I find it works really well, like you say semi-scripted movements steer you in the right direction even with the simple d-pad, that is brilliant !
Also it somehow made sense to me to point at the screen for FPW, in fact, you'd do just that in real life if you had a flashlight or even a gun in your pocket.
Despite what Guild said, I also liked Paper Mario very much, and I loved Super Mario Sunshine, and all the Zelda games.
I think Guild owns the wrong console, he should get a Playstation, and leave Nintendo fun boys have fun with their childish , gimmicky games, stop criticizing everything  that's even remotely associated with the name NINTENDO 

That said,we are discussing the possibility of Team Ninja to work on another Metroid game.The other M surely was a long way from perfection, and had some serious issues, but it also got a lot of things right, and all in all the experience was quite enjoyable for me and it looks like I'm not the only one who appreciated it.
Thus I would say, if Team Ninja learns from their mistakes and improve the formula in every way possible ( and with the Wii U hardware and controller there is a lot that could be done ) , then I'd welcome a sequel.


----------



## Janthran (Aug 19, 2012)

clarky said:


> If they knew what was wrong with Other M and was sure they could fix it I would say let them have a try at it. I didn't mind Other M too much besides the silly plot, trying to use a 3d set up on a 2d (why not just make the game side scrolling?) and the point at the screen bits


Nintendo has released enough 2.5D platformers in the life of the Wii already.


----------



## Janthran (Aug 19, 2012)

Also, I thought of a title.
"The _other_ other M".


----------



## Clarky (Aug 19, 2012)

Janthran said:


> clarky said:
> 
> 
> > If they knew what was wrong with Other M and was sure they could fix it I would say let them have a try at it. I didn't mind Other M too much besides the silly plot, trying to use a 3d set up on a 2d (why not just make the game side scrolling?) and the point at the screen bits
> ...



that is a shit excuse though...."too many games use an analog stick, lets use the d pad" , surely you cater to the strenghs of a game than its failings?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Aug 20, 2012)

dkc returns could use the d-pad and it worked just fine . when it's done PROPERLY it's fine to use the d-pad. other M fucked it up big time with the 1st person view element. making you quickly switch from holding the mote to pointing it sometimes at split 2nd speeds made it absolutely unbearable for me to play. i only played it for a few hours than i just couldn't stand it any longer and deleted it off my drive in disgust.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Aug 20, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> Wintrale said:
> 
> 
> > Master Mo said:
> ...



ITT: opinions are wrong.


----------



## Gahars (Aug 20, 2012)

clarky said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > How is a game that turns Samus (one of the most revered and iconic female characters in gaming, and previously characterized as strong and independent) into a weak, fragile, and codependent woman unable to function without a man around *not* blatantly sexist and misogynist?
> ...



There's a difference between having respect for a person and being completely subservient to them. 

Also, the problem isn't that Other M characterized (or "humanized") Samus. The problem is that it did so at the expense of everything that had been established about her beforehand.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 20, 2012)

Janthran said:


> Also, I thought of a title.
> "The _other_ other M".



Is that a reference to the Monty Python Pirahna Brothers sketch? The _other_ other operation?


----------



## Clarky (Aug 20, 2012)

Gahars said:


> There's a difference between having respect for a person and being completely subservient to them.



there is, but if Samus was a man we would be saying he is just stupid. It was a horrible mechanic used to make it more like a game which just made Samus look stupid more than anything, sexism doesn't even really come into it



Gahars said:


> Also, the problem isn't that Other M characterized (or "humanized") Samus. The problem is that it did so at the expense of everything that had been established about her beforehand.



Yet again most things about Samus was more of this image the player had before hand, besides "Samus is a bounty hunter" and the previous games in the series it is not like Samus actually had much established as a character, people get pissy because the directors idea of Samus is different from everybody elses


----------



## Gahars (Aug 20, 2012)

@[member='clarky']

1) That's completely irrelevant. When you take an iconic, revered female character (in a medium where they are something of a rarity) and devote an entire game to portraying her as weak and codependent, the end result is... disturbing, to say the least. It goes beyond the interactions with Adam, too (remember Ridley? How Samus literally becomes a scared, helpless child in his presence?.

A bad gameplay mechanic is one thing, but it's not just limited to that; the game is stained with blatant misogyny. 

2) Again, Samus was not so much of a blank slate as you seem to believe. We know from the past games that she is strong and independent; at the same time, her interactions with the baby metroid in Super Metroid reveals a human, softer side. Plus, we know she is capable of taking on hordes of space pirates, metroids, and other assorted aliens single-handedly. That alone leaves the player with a pretty powerful impression.

People aren't "pissy" just because Other M's characterization is different. The characterization itself is poor (in writing and delivery), it conflicts with and undermines what we already know about Samus, and it raises some very worrying implications.

I don't know, this point rubs me as a sort of "Something is always better than nothing" argument. Which, no, isn't the case at all.


----------



## Clarky (Aug 20, 2012)

Gahars said:


> We know from the past games that she is strong and independent
> 
> Plus, we know she is capable of taking on hordes of space pirates, metroids, and other assorted aliens single-handedly



couldnt the same be said of any playable character in a game?



Gahars said:


> her interactions with the baby metroid in Super Metroid reveals a human, softer side.



the part where Samus gives the metroid away or the one where Samus almost gets killed by it? if it is the latter I would argue that it shows more of a character in the baby metroid than it ever did in Samus. I have said before the plot to Other M is crap and the problem does extend to where Samus is actually given character and personallity for a change, its just that she was given a horrible character. The bit about Ridley, yeh, was very cringe worthy there but enough to "destroy a character", as I still say, how much of a character did she ever really have?



Gahars said:


> I don't know, this point rubs me as a sort of "Something is always better than nothing" argument. Which, no, isn't the case at all.



I said the characterization was different from everybody elses, I don't recall saying it was good.


----------



## Janthran (Aug 20, 2012)

clarky said:


> Janthran said:
> 
> 
> > clarky said:
> ...


I was just addressing the bit about side-scrolling.


----------



## Gahars (Aug 20, 2012)

@[member='clarky']

1) That gameplay can reflect and build upon the story and character(s)? Of course!

2) How about the fact that Samus disobeyed her order to exterminate the metroids? That small act of mercy is pretty telling. 

Again, the point isn't that Samus was a rich character on par with one of Shakespeare's creations, but that Samus had character; she wasn't just a completely blank slate. It wasn't huge, and it wasn't complicated, but it was still present. This makes the bad characterization in Other M that much worse.


----------



## DarkShinigami (Aug 21, 2012)

i say let team ninja take a whack as far as im concerned they could only do better or the same.  the story was a joke and the missile controls were atroucous but sides that it was decent


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 21, 2012)

Saying Samus is a "blank slate" is like saying Gordon Freeman is a blank slate. It's called "characterization through subtlety".

If you want a video on what is wrong with Other M, Extra Credits does a good job explaining it: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/learning-from-other-m


----------



## DarkShinigami (Aug 21, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Saying Samus is a "blank slate" is like saying Gordon Freeman is a blank slate. It's called "characterization through subtlety".
> 
> If you want a video on what is wrong with Other M, Extra Credits does a good job explaining it: http://penny-arcade....ng-from-other-m


i do agree that other M was actually not that good i was glad to be done with it when i beat it and now its on my games not to touch

but i say let em take a whack at it like i said worst they can do is make another game which is crap


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 21, 2012)

DarkShinigami said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Saying Samus is a "blank slate" is like saying Gordon Freeman is a blank slate. It's called "characterization through subtlety".
> ...



And deprive Nintendo of resources they could dump into better games or potentially make Nintendo think that the Metroid franchise is no longer worth touching and let it sit in video game purgatory with Star Fox and F-Zero.

So yeah, what's the worst that could happen?


----------



## DarkShinigami (Aug 21, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> DarkShinigami said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


i guess i see ur stance


----------



## Centrix (Aug 21, 2012)

I personally thoroughly enjoyed Metroid Other M and the way they tie everything into the universe of the series. Granted there will always be us fans who will find things to harp about but I didn't find anything that was bad about the game in terms of story, music and graphics, game play on the other hand well it needed tightening up, enough said where that's concerned! All in all I felt the game deserved much more praise than it had gotten and yes I wouldn't mind at all to see Team Ninja + Nintendo do another Metroid they did an Amazing job with Other M, so why the heck not!


----------



## Gahars (Aug 21, 2012)

A sort of "off the record" post:

An interesting essay analyzing the relationship between Adam and Samus. It's definitely well worth a read.

The Retsupurae take on Other M's theater mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMI1-DDklqE


----------



## Clarky (Aug 21, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Again, the point isn't that Samus was a rich character on par with one of Shakespeare's creations, but that Samus had character; she wasn't just a completely blank slate. It wasn't huge, and it wasn't complicated, but it was still present. This makes the bad characterization in Other M that much worse.



now you are getting to the meat of it. I never said she was a blank slate, all I ever said was that she had so little character before Other M previous games in the series allowed you build your own impression of her character. anywho I've said my piece on this several times now, considering I only ever got involved due to the usual Other M=Sexism line, i will admit I enjoyed chewing the fat on this


----------

