# British May Face Internet Ban For Illegal Download



## hanman (Feb 12, 2008)

See Here

i'm unfamiliar with the political landscape in Britain.  what are the odds something like this could get passed?  if it works there, we could likely see similar legislation in the USA.


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## Law (Feb 12, 2008)

I saw it on the news earlier, to be honest, I think it's impossible.

ISPs can moniter traffic, but they cannot get access to the data which is being transferred. At least, that's what I heard on the news.

Only people stupid enough to use programs like Kazaa and Limewire (Two programs that were discussed on the news) would get the "warning email".


Also, no matter what they say, I think a "warning email" would be retarded, seeing as it would probably be picked up as spam and trashed.


The law probably will get passed, but I doubt it will be very effective, people will just use places like Rapidshare and Megaupload to share files.


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## MaHe (Feb 12, 2008)

European Union actually decriminalised piracy for personal purpouses. Still, this wouldn't stop such a law. And I doubt we'll ever see it in UK or anywhere else for that matter.


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## adgloride (Feb 12, 2008)

Yet the pedos still get internet access.


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## nando (Feb 12, 2008)

what if u download from work? will your employer be banned? how will that help the economy?


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## legendofphil (Feb 12, 2008)

Like it matters, this will never pass cause ISP's won't let it.
I am in this position now anyway, if I get banned from my ISP there is no alternative.
Based on current performance no Internet would work much better than this shit.


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## LordMelkor (Feb 12, 2008)

another link on the same topic:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7240234.stm


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## ackers (Feb 12, 2008)

Heard this on the radio. I don't think it will happen cuz ISP's will lose a lot of money if they start banning people. And they certainly wouldn't want that!


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## greyhound (Feb 12, 2008)

QUOTE(legendofphil @ Feb 12 2008 said:


> Like it matters, this will never pass cause ISP's won't let it.
> I am in this position now anyway, if I get banned from my ISP there is no alternative.
> Based on current performance no Internet would work much better than this shit.



you live in hull?


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## Rayder (Feb 12, 2008)

If something like this would pass, then the internet would become mostly useless for a great many people.


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## Jackreyes (Feb 12, 2008)

Lol
Not gonna happen

And if it does it'll be more years than weeks before anything happens


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## legendofphil (Feb 12, 2008)

QUOTE(greyhound @ Feb 12 2008 said:


> QUOTE(legendofphil @ Feb 12 2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Like it matters, this will never pass cause ISP's won't let it.
> ...



How'd you guess?


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## xJonny (Feb 12, 2008)

It probably won't happen and if it does then people will find ways to circumvent it or just boycott the internetz.


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## Javacat (Feb 13, 2008)

bah... if it happened I'd just make a new internet! Or people would turn back to BBS's.... 

Me suspects some MPs are receiving same rather large 'mystery' donations from certain movie bodies to go ahead with this....


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## herbanassault (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't doubt this type of law will eventually be passed in the U.S. during my lifetime. Anything the government can do to crush my enjoyment of life, they do.


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## Hadrian (Feb 13, 2008)

Ok say this happens(which I doubt will but stranger things have happened), how will they know what you are downloading and how would they be able to monitor everyone?


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## herbanassault (Feb 13, 2008)

Quite simply, I would say companies like MediaSentry would simply turn over their lists to the government. It's really not that complicated. If it were law, tons of companies would pop up with employees competent enough to track your common downloader.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 13, 2008)

@those in the US there is some good news:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/v...d-piracy-fight/
but AT&T seem to be heading down a similar route to the one mentioned here. Not to mention all the deep packet inspection and the like comcast is pulling these days:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/09/co...rms_of_service/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/09/fc...orrent_busting/

@MaHe what the EU says and what the UK does normally do not line up or be anything more than lip service at best.

I do kind of feel sorry for people that have their wireless used without their permission (and given the best "security" I have seen factory installed and so default is run of the mill WEP.......). Then again I suppose it could be considered modern Darwinism.

Guess I will end up having to plonk for SSL usenet.

On a similar subject I find it amusing the government is prepared to pay untold billions (£14bn was the last I heard) trying to push ID cards through yet for a slight bit less (£10bn) BT could supposedly upgrade to fibre in a move that  might actually benefit someone: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=10830 That is a whole other argument though.


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## iffy525 (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE(FAST6191 @ Feb 13 2008 said:


> @those in the US there is some good news:
> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/v...d-piracy-fight/


yay I have Verizon!


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## dakeyras (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE(Javacat @ Feb 13 2008 said:


> Me suspects some MPs are receiving same rather large 'mystery' donations from certain movie bodies to go ahead with this....



Not to mention from some big record companies. I always love how they 'estimate' how much they lose through piracy. I mean, they have no clue on how many people download or what they download. They just pull it out of their ass and then use it to pass laws like the one that puts an extra fee on blank cd's/dvd's. 
They'd be better off figuring out why a lot of people download stuff to start with and work from there, instead of pulling the pity card all the time. Times change, change with it.


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## adgloride (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Feb 13 2008 said:


> QUOTE(Javacat @ Feb 13 2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Me suspects some MPs are receiving same rather large 'mystery' donations from certain movie bodies to go ahead with this....
> ...



I hate the music industry the most.  I can remember a few years back when they were making loads with overcharging us in the UK for buying CDs.  We were told to boycott buying CDs, the music companies just laughed and kept prices the same.  I don't feel sorry for them at all.

Going back onto the subject of Illegal Downloading.  Its up to the ISPs to enforce it.  I can't some them using some kind of blacklist if you decide to join another ISP.  If they do use a blacklist, who's saying another ISP won't give you another internet connection.  Then they'll pretend they had a computer error and never saw your name on the blacklist.  Everything is about money and I doubt the ISPs will want to lose the 6 million+ people that are downloading illegal stuff.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 13, 2008)

@adgloride
Your machine has a virus, open router or is used by guests. What happens and who proves what (proof tends to have to come the accusing party)?

Who provides the evidence? If it requires a trial (which it had better) I highly doubt any half competent tech type could not shoot massive holes in the evidence. Alas this is civil law so that point is probably rendered moot. Also as I understand it this approach is to stop the need for the wildly ineffective lawsuit method already in existence.

My preferred method of doing stuff involves a very heavily encrypted transmission (of which there are several options in existence already, nevermind a month or two after such a proposal gets anywhere and all involve negligible overhead). I would barely have enough resources to get anywhere towards decrypting it for my own machines. How is an ISP supposed to do this for several thousand machines in any manner approaching real time?
Likewise I could stick a box outside the EU (there are plenty of provisions for this one offering massive storage) and download it to my machine.

Real world sharing, I do not know about you but some of the pubs I appear in I would be able to get what I like (assuming I was so inclined and unable to do so myself).
Similar to this I can still source a hell of a lot from plain old HTTP and FTP. Hell tap in index of MP3 to a search engine and if you feel really bored jazz it up a bit with some of these:
http://www.google.com/help/operators.html

I could go on but it has all been said and done.


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## Son of Science (Feb 13, 2008)

If this happens... goodbye cruel GBATEMP


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## adgloride (Feb 13, 2008)

QUOTE(FAST6191 @ Feb 13 2008 said:


> @adgloride
> Your machine has a virus, open router or is used by guests. What happens and who proves what (proof tends to have to come the accusing party)?
> 
> Who provides the evidence? If it requires a trial (which it had better) I highly doubt any half competent tech type could not shoot massive holes in the evidence. Alas this is civil law so that point is probably rendered moot. Also as I understand it this approach is to stop the need for the wildly ineffective lawsuit method already in existence.
> ...



The person that pays the bill would get the blame.  If your the bill payer its your responsibility to see that the wireless on your router is secure and that you check for viruses regularly.


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## King Zargo (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't understand this. How can they track people down. ISP wont give customer information away. If they did that they would lose lots of customers including me.


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## Pigiot (Feb 14, 2008)

ISP's can track what you are doing especially if your torrenting since you make multiple requests for the file. I got sent to letter from my isp once for downloading movies... :'(


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## lookout (Feb 14, 2008)

QUOTE(shinsil @ Feb 14 2008 said:


> I don't understand this. How can they track people down. ISP wont give customer information away. If they did that they would lose lots of customers including me.



The government warm ISP to check if any user download any illegal files.
by doing this they (ISP) probably only track people who are heavy user, download or upload through their system which cause slow down traffic or over stream cost... 


it a illegal for ISP check what we have, like personal photo, home video, or could stealing our copyright etc...


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## FAST6191 (Feb 14, 2008)

@adgloride it would make life several times easier if people learned to use their machine but a similar logic also applies to cars: someone drives my car and kills someone, my kitchen has several damn sharp knives (I would use firearms but it seems they are already banned) too......
I can allow to some extent for negligence but only so much: I have been put up against some really nasty viruses resulting in a reinstall or spent and hour (at least) fixing it and this was on a "fully secure/patched" version of XP.
What about businesses though: half the slightly dodgy sites I have ever been too have been added on to nice business lines (or universities: try the index of thing from earlier but add "site:ac.uk OR site:.edu" to the search). It may be after the whole bubble thing but lacking internet for all but the most basic companies is a killer.

No real worries though as the technical infeasibility trumps any law from people who do not know better.
In some ways I am not against the law but I know of no body/group capable of administering it with anything approaching a semblance of common sense.
Would make a nice way for me to get out of contracts though, I would so sue myself* for downloading my own copyrighted work (assuming the electricians con is not reworked for this and only paying members can pull stuff off).

*suitable punishment for use of said vernacular has yet to be determined but rest assured it will be harsh.

@shinsil the most common method is to simply grab IPs from swarms (even with all the associated fun and games: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/11/anon_servers_seized/ and see any of the RIAA high profile screwups) and file so called John Doe lawsuits against the IP address or use various methods to procure names for IPs ( http://community.plus.net/blog/2007/11/28/...haring-letters/ ). Occasionally more thought first actions are taken (search warrants for forums and places of congregation being the start) but the above represent low hanging fruit (who will almost invariably buckle rather than appear in court) and with most judges/juries knowing less about computing than some of the suing parties "experts" you get the idea.


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## Javacat (Feb 14, 2008)

I've just realised that there is actually a good thing that would come out of this new law. All of the idiots would get banned from the interwebs


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## WeaponXxX (Feb 14, 2008)

I would actually like to see people do a lot of wardriving to commit "internet crimes" to show the governments that just because "home owner A" downloads a file...doesn't mean he is indeed the downloader. You can't always have encryption on your router as some devices don't offer encryption compatibility...and there is no way to monitor what your unsecure...or for that matter secure router is doing at ALL times. 

Of course in a case like me...they could just raid houses but if would create a huge stress on all victims of wardriven homeowners. When the feds took all my shit I was able to work of my Excalibur phone (AKA Tmobile DASH) ... and when I drove around I found 1 out 3 house were unsecure...let alone hitting an apt community allowed for numerous unsecure log ins from one parked environment.

The only way the government could track everything would be to stop wireless and I don't see that happening. Like I said earlier in this post I look forward to the day they attempt to pass a law...we all run out to commit our   downloads...several innocent get accused...hours of wasted manpower get used up and they realize...hey we need a new method to attack pirates.

Is newsgroup in anyway trackable...obviously ATT knows I am eating up 100gigs per day...but can they tell what I am downloading? I still use newsgroups of my neighbors IP...but sometimes it would be nice to access shit from my house.


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## Talvon (Feb 14, 2008)

I think it'll happen but it will be poorly enforced. Like what if everyone masks files and sticks them on megaupload and calls it 'family pics' or something?

But still, looks like SSL usenet is the way to go :| But I heard giganews keeps logs, is this true?


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## Linkiboy (Feb 14, 2008)

QUOTE(Javacat @ Feb 14 2008 said:


> I've just realised that there is actually a good thing that would come out of this new law. All of the idiots would get banned from the interwebs


Damn, you're right.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 14, 2008)

@WeaponXxX usenet/NNTP is a well defined and well understood protocol so a basic tap would work. However to my knowledge nobody has been got using evidence from gathering like this (uploaders and frivolous lawsuits tend to get bothered differently) or even had it used to justify a warrant/court order.
Of course providers do offer SSL these days (and the nice SSL too if various people are to be believed).

@Talvon from their FAQ: http://www.giganews.com/faq.html#q4.1
Does Giganews keep track of what I download/upload, and what is the Giganews 'privacy policy'?

Giganews does not track the specific articles you download (unless required by law); however, we will track the volume of your downloads for account maintenance and download limit enforcement purposes (if applicable).


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## slayerspud (Feb 14, 2008)

QUOTE(FAST6191 @ Feb 14 2008 said:


> @WeaponXxX usenet/NNTP is a well defined and well understood protocol so a basic tap would work. However to my knowledge nobody has been got using evidence from gathering like this (uploaders and frivolous lawsuits tend to get bothered differently) or even had it used to justify a warrant/court order.
> Of course providers do offer SSL these days (and the nice SSL too if various people are to be believed).
> 
> @Talvon from their FAQ: http://www.giganews.com/faq.html#q4.1
> ...



Is there any tutorials / guides showing more things such as "index of", as after reading your first post and trying it, they are pretty useful.

On topic - Even if this did get passed in the 2 or 3 years it seems to take in UK, I think the ISPS will have to invest in a hell of alot of new technology to decrypt encrypted data. Even when torrenting you just click RC4 encryption and your set.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 14, 2008)

I believe in some circles it is referred to as google-fu/searchfu but I do not.

http://www.google.com/help/operators.html is a list of things that are useful.
http://www.google.com/support/bin/static.p...ml&ctx=advanced

The index of part relies on the fact most webservers allow directories to be indexed as standard (although a lot are blocked off these days and you will often get 403ed).
Also typing ../ at the end of an address bar will take you up a level, for example
Address: http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/
add ../ to the end to get
http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/../ and hit enter/go
You will then appear at http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/
Fairly obvious for that site but some others can get some interesting stuff come up from it.


Anyhow the main searching stuff methods I use are: 
site:[something]
I personally use "site:.ac.uk OR site:.edu" (no quotes) to only bring up results for sites with the TLD of .ac.uk or .edu
This allows you to to only get info from university sites. I know not all of them use such an address but it helps to weed out the useless sites and wikipedia/sites copying wikipedia
You can also add site:gbatemp.net to only bring results from gbatemp.net, useful if forums allow it as it can help with their search restrictions (low characters-one every 60 seconds.......)
Similarly you can add -site:[something] to whatever (in my case normally -site:wikipedia.org although I tend to run up against the myriad sites that wikipedia is great and copy it)
Finally if looking for older versions of software I tend to find various foreign sites mirror rather than direct their users to an English site. The page is promptly forgotten, indexed and then I appear wanting the file. In short it pays to learn download in several languages (if only because most people sending C&D notices/trying to find places to send to can just about do English). I suggest going to http://www.oldversion.com/ first as it has loads but it is still worth knowing.

link:gbatemp.net
Searches for sites that link to gbatemp, not quite as useful as some features but can be helpful finding related sites.

You have the basic operators too which I suggest you learn.
"some phrase"
Quoting stuff means you get that exact phrase in a search rather than the words in any order. It also dodges the common word filter which search engines apply and that can mess up a search.

- gets rid of stuff (probably evident from above but who cares)
for example say I wished to know something about sabbath but not the band I would type in sabbath -band

OR (in capitals)
most searches require all the terms to appear to get results, OR makes any of the results turn up (very useful on occasion)
AND is default these days so you should not need it. It acts a bit like the quotes above but does not require exact phrasing.

I will take the lazy route here and say go to http://www.google.com/help/operators.html
for the allintitle: intitle: allinurl: inurl: operators. Note that the index of trick tends to work better if you use allintitle:

It also pays to add a file extension to a search. For example go search for GABsharky (a GBA cheating tool whose site is long gone and not terribly well mirrored: there was a whole virus thing). Not so easy
GABsharky zip
Oh look first result is good.

The biggest tip of all: multiple search and do not be afraid of false positives. Too many people do not do this and are afraid of losing their a good result favouring instead to wade through a sea of junk.

For example if I was feeling especially vain I could search for my username.
First three results are my 4shared site, the US EZFlash forums and here. I know I have been here and the other places so I do not care to know about that.
FAST6191 -site:4shared.com -site:sosuke.com -site:gbatemp.net
Now some more interesting results, mainly quotes from me or stuff I have mirrored or released but despite my not having an account at gbx.ru (a pretty good Russian language site much like this site) I now know someone spoke of my kludgy hack of batchDPG there:
http://gbx.ru/index.php?showtopic=15672&st=80

Such searches also are pretty good at dragging up mirror/indexing sites to get around blocking filters, I also do this for new members (and their avatars: even if they do not have the name the often use the same avatar/signature) to try to form a quick opinion.

Hope I have helped a bit.


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