# Students Asked To Leave Multicultural Room For 'Police Lives Matter' Sticker



## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)




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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

All jobs matter


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 26, 2021)

Sad really.  How they are harassing these boys.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

Chrisssj2 said:


> Sad really.  How they are harassing these boys.


Like I've said before
People consider "Everything Racist"


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> All jobs matter


All lives matter


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Like I've said before
> People consider "Everything Racist"


In the fight against racism they become racist themselves.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

Chrisssj2 said:


> In the fight against racism they become racist themselves.


"White is not a culture" someone who's in ASU


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

“*Hating* people because of their *color* is wrong. And it doesn't *matter* which *color* *does* the *hating*. It's just plain wrong.”. -Muhammad Ali


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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> All lives matter


The issue with “All lives Matter” and “Police Lives Matter” is that they were made by and for those upset over the word “Black.”


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> The issue with “All lives Matter” and “Police Lives Matter” is that they were made by and for those upset over the word “Black.”


Yeah I get that but the thing is
People strongly overlook those 2 claims
I'm white and asian but I will treat someone of different race the same way I'd treat any human
The police lives matter was because of *HARRASMENT*


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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Yeah I get that but the thing is
> People strongly overlook those 2 claims
> I'm white and asian but I will treat someone of different race the same way I'd treat any human
> The police lives matter was because of *HARRASMENT*


Police are literally killing people and often getting away with it, they don’t need more support and they deserve to be called out for their abuse. Even the best cop is likely to still have a shitty track record. Support shouldn’t come from hijacking another movement, it should come from making reform, more training, being held accountable, more monitoring, and so much more. Blind support is the reason why the police have become the problem


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> Police are literally killing people and often getting away with it, they don’t need more support and they deserve to be called out for their abuse. Even the best cop is likely to still have a shitty track record. Support shouldn’t come from hijacking another movement, it should come from making reform, more training, being held accountable, more monitoring, and so much more. Blind support is the reason why the police have become the problem


I agree some police officers aren't good people
You're  generalizing all police officers
Yes I agree shitty officers should be held accountable, should be given more training etc. 
but just put yourself in that situation
You've been helping the community for years and everyone hates you now.
Near me, a milkshake place *tried to poison* a police officer last year


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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I agree some police officers aren't good people
> You're  generalizing all police officers
> Yes I agree shitty officers should be held accountable, should be given more training etc.
> but just put yourself in that situation
> ...


All cops continue to be part of a bad system and continue to uphold that system. A good cop would be a cop protecting against the police not continuing to work for them due to their loyalty to the system. Simply put, a good cop isn’t going to be a cop in bad system.
I don’t agree with trying to poison someone but I understand their motivations to do so. When you feel helpless again the system, you do what you can to try and feel in control. It’s the wrong approach to trying to solve a bigger problem.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> All cops continue to be part of a bad system and continue to uphold that system. A good cop would be a cop protecting against the police not continuing to work for them due to their loyalty to the system. Simply put, a good cop isn’t going to be a cop in bad system.
> I don’t agree with trying to poison someone but I understand their motivations to do so. When you feel helpless again the system, you do what you can to try and feel in control. It’s the wrong approach to trying to solve a bigger problem.


I totally agree with most of what you're saying
but a lot of things we've been approaching are the wrong approach
but it's not like the system is changing
More and more people have been trying to get the law to change and I think it's starting to work.
It's not perfect, but it's not as bad as they claim it to be


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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I totally agree with most of what you're saying
> but a lot of things we've been approaching are the wrong approach
> but it's not like the system is changing
> More and more people have been trying to get the law to change and I think it's starting to work.
> It's not perfect, but it's not as bad as they claim it to be


Most people are wasting their breath believing they can vote in changes for the system while voting for someone like Biden or supporting Trump. Neither will bring much change and what changes they will bring will either be completely pointless or continue the same cycle of problems. So it is kind of a bigger problem and unfortunately, the police are part of that problem. That being said, I still stand by my suggestions because they aren't that unreasonable and aren't even the most extreme of a stance that I would normally purpose.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> Most people are wasting their breath believing they can vote in changes for the system while voting for someone like Biden or supporting Trump. Neither will bring much change and what changes they will bring will either be completely pointless or continue the same cycle of problems. So it is kind of a bigger problem and unfortunately, the police are part of that problem. That being said, I still stand by my suggestions because they aren't that unreasonable and aren't even the most extreme of a stance that I would normally purpose.


That’s why we have to identify the cause and end the cause


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## Hanafuda (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> Police are literally killing people and often getting away with it, they don’t need more support and they deserve to be called out for their abuse. Even the best cop is likely to still have a shitty track record. Support shouldn’t come from hijacking another movement, it should come from making reform, more training, being held accountable, more monitoring, and so much more. Blind support is the reason why the police have become the problem





The Catboy said:


> All cops continue to be part of a bad system and continue to uphold that system. A good cop would be a cop protecting against the police not continuing to work for them due to their loyalty to the system. Simply put, a good cop isn’t going to be a cop in bad system.
> I don’t agree with trying to poison someone but I understand their motivations to do so. When you feel helpless again the system, you do what you can to try and feel in control. It’s the wrong approach to trying to solve a bigger problem.



When you've grown up and put 10 or so years into a marriage, parenting children, working a fulltime job, paying for a home ... it would be interesting to see you be made to come back and read those posts and watch the expressions you make while confronting how naïve and led-around by the nose you were back in 2021.


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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> That’s why we have to identify the cause and end the cause


I think this is where we are going to end up in a bit of stalemate because I am an Ancom and my approach to this is rather extreme


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> I think this is where we are going to end up in a bit of stalemate because I am an Ancom and my approach to this is rather extreme


I don't know how to reply to that..


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## Hanafuda (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> I think this is where we are going to end up in a bit of stalemate because I am an Ancom and my approach to this is rather extreme



Shit, friend, that's no way to get laid. Unless you want a girl with hairy armpits.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)




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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

tsao said:


> -snip-


I am literally choosing to disclose my bias and accept that my ideas are extreme. I won’t call that unstable as it’s an act of understanding of the room


WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I don't know how to reply to that..


That’s fair, I am trying to do my best at not pushing my views too hard into the conversation. I do actually want change, I just know my direction too far for most people to jump to.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

tsao said:


> -snip-


Ok can we stay respective in this thread
I don't like it when people just YELL at others for having different opinions


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## Deleted member 568468 (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> I am literally choosing to disclose my bias and accept that my ideas are extreme. I won’t call that unstable as it’s an act of understanding of the room


but the point is still there, you guys are unable to think in anything else than extremes


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## Hanafuda (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> That’s fair, I am trying to do my best at not pushing my views too hard into the conversation. I do actually want change, I just know my direction too far for most people to jump to.



Yeah, the stench of a few million rotting corpses does tend to offend some people.


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## Drak0rex (Sep 26, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> All lives matter


Nothing really matters


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## The Catboy (Sep 26, 2021)

tsao said:


> but the point is still there, you guys are unable to think in anything else than extremes


That’s an assumption on your end because I literally did just suggest something other than my extreme views. My issue with resolving the bigger system problem is that it is considered extreme by most because I don’t want to change the system from within. I believe the system can only change if we stop believing that voting in the same people will make change and if we stop believing in the 2 party system or the bloated government. Unfortunately, those are an entirely different topic that only plays into this issue of the corrupt system


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## chrisrlink (Sep 26, 2021)

why do people always think you are BORN an officer (and don't go on saying "because i come from a long line of them) you have a choice to break ranks with family same with what college you go to you cant choose your race/ethnic but somethings you can change like career path and religon (even to the ire of family members)


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 26, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> The issue with “All lives Matter” and “Police Lives Matter” is that they were made by and for those upset over the word “Black.”


The issue is only in their head, because the words are neutral, and everyone has their own mental and emotional control to do.
Of course black lives matter, and ofcourse other lives matter too. One should not be held responsible for one's negative definitions one might apply to it for saying something, that is really obvious and normal.

Though I have to say, police lives matter. But their work really is appalling especially in these times. Nevermind the philosophy and worldview "police' bases their modus of operandi. As they are protecting the real criminals of this world.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Sep 26, 2021)

Turns out the college has replied and said that the matter will be investigated.
One teacher said that it was "racist" however she isn't involved 
The dean will handle it


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 26, 2021)

Historically, its Black/POC groups who are by far and away the most discriminated against globally. It is possible on different scales for people to be discriminated against when they have fair skin in particular contexts, that does not cancel out the historic global trend. Systemetic racism in terms of biology was started in Spain in the late 1400s by the Catholic church and aimed at Jewish and Muslim converts to Christianity. Later on it was used to justify the slave trade. Black Lives Matter is ultimately based on highlighting that historical trend against Black groups and seeks to highlight it in the wake of violence against it, especially by the police. The Police Lives Matter campaign is a reaction to  white supremacy being threatened and tries to draw false equivalence with BLM, which is hardly possible considering its the only one of the two authorized by the State to use force. Its trying to literally whitewash whats going on, its absolutely right to be banned from any classroom and the children should be educated as to why its so fucked up, disgusting and wrong.  Admins, this is meant to be a gaming forum, not a recruiting center for redneck Cotton Eye Joes who are historically illiterate. Videos like that should be banned as should those posting them. Please get rid of them.


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 26, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Historically, its Black/POC groups who are by far and away the most discriminated against globally. It is possible on different scales for people to be discriminated against when they have fair skin in particular contexts, that does not cancel out the historic global trend. Systemetic racism in terms of biology was started in Spain in the late 1400s by the Catholic church and aimed at Jewish and Muslim converts to Christianity. Later on it was used to justify the slave trade. Black Lives Matter is ultimately based on highlighting that historical trend against Black groups and seeks to highlight it in the wake of violence against it, especially by the police. The Police Lives Matter campaign is a reaction to  white supremacy being threatened and tries to draw false equivalence with BLM, which is hardly possible considering its the only one of the two authorized by the State to use force. Its trying to literally whitewash whats going on, its absolutely right to be banned from any classroom and the children should be educated as to why its so fucked up, disgusting and wrong.  Admins, this is meant to be a gaming forum, not a recruiting center for redneck Cotton Eye Joes who are historically illiterate. Videos like that should be banned as should those posting them. Please get rid of them.


You said it right historically. Leave the past in the past.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 26, 2021)

I said it started, I never said it finished. When bullshit white supremacist crap like Police Lives Matter comes up its clear its nowhere near 'past'. Not just that, when the disease flares up in the US, everywhere else gets it too. Thats something the last few years in particular has highlighted where the Internet has taken it to new places. Case in point: the crap the OP has put up on a fucking gaming site. Again admins, ban them.


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 26, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> I said it started, I never said it finished. When bullshit white supremacist crap like Police Lives Matter comes up its clear its nowhere near 'past'. Not just that, when the disease flares up in the US, everywhere else gets it too. Thats something the last few years in particular has highlighted where the Internet has taken it to new places. Case in point: the crap the OP has put up on a fucking gaming site. Again admins, ban them.


The fact that you think open discussion needs to be banned, shows enough about your state.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 26, 2021)

So you have come to a gaming forum hosted on a company owned server to try and defend racist platforming totally anathema to free speech with that cute yet old euphemism of 'open discussion'? And when I say free speech I dont mean 'excuse for racist platforming' which some seem to be confused by, I mean the right to respond to attempts to silence disempowered groups, which is what Police Lives Matter is about: arsehurt rednecks and white supremacists trying to silence people calling out racism. And congrats to you, thats what you have also done with just that one little euphemism: 'open discussion'. Thats what its used for: trying to open up space to insert white supremacist rhetoric. Its an old tired trick and thankfully enough people arent fooled by it any more. Admins, again shut this crap down and just bar 'political' type discussion altogether. It always ends the same way: taken up by some braindead minority of pricks who arent evolved enough to be classed as human.


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 27, 2021)

Just ignore him. Someone should tell him there is a difference in actual meaning of words, and how words are used, and that it is not the same. To automatically assign this negative meaning to it, is quite, shortsighted and akin to a sort of racism in itself. How do you know what they mean with it, have you talked to them? Or do you automatically assume that by valuing one life or job it means the devaluation of another, is preposterous. Now im sure there are those individuals out there, like you describe. But you'd better be damn sure to inquire a whole lot more then you seem to do with the blatant statements that you seem to make.
The sentence *Insert lives matter* in itself is about as inoffensive as it can get. As value of all lives and things, is the natural order of and for all.


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## The Catboy (Sep 27, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Yeah, the stench of a few million rotting corpses does tend to offend some people.


I am an Ancom, I am literally against Authoritarianism in all forms, including the Authoritarian Communists of the past and current.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 27, 2021)

Chrisssj2 said:


> Just ignore him. Someone should tell him there is a difference in actual meaning of words, and how words are used, and that it is not the same. To automatically assign this negative meaning to it, is quite, shortsighted and akin to a sort of racism in itself. How do you know what they mean with it, have you talked to them? Or do you automatically assume that by valuing one life or job it means the devaluation of another, is preposterous. Now im sure there are those individuals out there, like you describe. But you'd better be damn sure to inquire a whole lot more then you seem to do with the blatant statements that you seem to make.
> The sentence *Insert lives matter* in itself is about as inoffensive as it can get. As value of all lives and things, is the natural order of and for all.


That right there Admins and in previous posts. Thats the thing to watch out for going forward. No attempt at self reflection, no attempt at self querying, they reflexively do defensive. If it isnt trying to insinuate that white supremacy is a thing of the past, or that its just a slogan, its 'not all people who support white supremacy arguments are white supremacists'. That also alongside the 'whattaboutery' and the attempts to turn it into a 'debate' when theres none to be had. They dont all come in white sheets and burning crosses on lawns. They are respectable looking, they sit on neighbourhood committees, they sit on forums. They dont for a second question themselves. They in fact have plenty of friends who are Black or whatever other minority group so how could they POSSIBLY be white supremacists?....until they start making excuses and providing cover. Thats how you know. There really is no difference and there's no excuse, there's enough that has been said for anyone to at least question themselves if they're culpable and not one person on this forum has done so, at least here in writing. Ill leave it at that. G'luck.

Its also worth pointing out that the only people who go on about 'open discussions' and feel the need to post political crap at all on these forums are just supporting that racist bullshit. Its not politics theyre interested in, its platforming some pretty disgusting arguments because theyre insecure. Just ban ALL political threads on this gaming forum. They can hardly complain of unfair treatment then and there wont be any space for excusing hatred.


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> That right there Admins and in previous posts. Thats the thing to watch out for going forward. No attempt at self reflection, no attempt at self querying, they reflexively do defensive. If it isnt trying to insinuate that white supremacy is a thing of the past, or that its just a slogan, its 'not all people who support white supremacy arguments are white supremacists'. That also alongside the 'whattaboutery' and the attempts to turn it into a 'debate' when theres none to be had. They dont all come in white sheets and burning crosses on lawns. They are respectable looking, they sit on neighbourhood committees, they sit on forums. They dont for a second question themselves. They in fact have plenty of friends who are Black or whatever other minority group so how could they POSSIBLY be white supremacists?....until they start making excuses and providing cover. Thats how you know. There really is no difference and there's no excuse, there's enough that has been said for anyone to at least question themselves if they're culpable and not one person on this forum has done so, at least here in writing. Ill leave it at that. G'luck.
> 
> Its also worth pointing out that the only people who go on about 'open discussions' and feel the need to post political crap at all on these forums are just supporting that racist bullshit. Its not politics theyre interested in, its platforming some pretty disgusting arguments because theyre insecure. Just ban ALL political threads on this gaming forum. They can hardly complain of unfair treatment then and there wont be any space for excusing hatred.


Yeah.. lets not have any meaningful exchanges on the internet.. it is not like... that happens enough in normal life
If you can't talk about something, thats a huge freaking red flag right there.
I wish you the best with the rather toxic mind environment you seem to have created for yourself.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 27, 2021)

Chrisssj2 said:


> Yeah.. lets not have any meaningful exchanges on the internet.. it is not like... that happens enough in normal life
> If you can't talk about something, thats a huge freaking red flag right there.
> I wish you the best with the rather toxic mind environment you seem to have created for yourself.


Again, gaming forum. Thats what it says on the tin. If you want to help promote and make space for hate speech (which if you consider 'meaningful' and are actually arguing to platform is the real red flag here), go to Parler or some other wannabee uberrace wankfest that will cater to you. They like that poison and theyll like you. You can have your own little circle there and leave everyone else get on with gaming.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Again, gaming forum. Thats what it says on the tin. If you want to help promote and make space for hate speech (which if you consider 'meaningful' and are actually arguing to platform is the real red flag here), go to Parler or some other wannabee uberrace wankfest that will cater to you. They like that poison and theyll like you. You can have your own little circle there and leave everyone else get on with gaming.


There is this section. We can go back through forum history prior to the creation of this section and find any number of topics similar to this.
You are the one imagining this as some kind of "all gaming, all the time" setup (not that it is a particularly good argument even then), and seemingly also going under the paranoid delusions that ists and istaphobes are seemingly under every rock. Must really suck to live under such fear and paranoia.


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## Joe88 (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Again, gaming forum. Thats what it says on the tin. If you want to help promote and make space for hate speech (which if you consider 'meaningful' and are actually arguing to platform is the real red flag here), go to Parler or some other wannabee uberrace wankfest that will cater to you. They like that poison and theyll like you. You can have your own little circle there and leave everyone else get on with gaming.


Why click on the politics section then complain people are talking about politics in it?


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 27, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> There is this section. We can go back through forum history prior to the creation of this section and find any number of topics similar to this.
> You are the one imagining this as some kind of "all gaming, all the time" setup (not that it is a particularly good argument even then), and seemingly also going under the paranoid delusions that ists and istaphobes are seemingly under every rock. Must really suck to live under such fear and paranoia.


Never said gaming all the time, so no words in my mouth. I said get rid of politics ie ALL of it so people cant claim that theyre being singled out. The original point of this is that Police Lives Matter is a white supremacist argument and should not be platformed. Thats it. The only people who want to 'discuss' are those trying to garner support for that crap and the only ones crying when theyre called out about it. The primary purpose of this site should be gaming as described ("GBA"?"). I also never said theyre 'under every rock', there are plenty making room for them to operate here on this forum. Stop projecting, good man.


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## Hanafuda (Sep 27, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> Why click on the politics section then complain people are talking about politics in it?



And just joined the site yesterday. Complains about political speech he doesn't like being present on a gaming forum, but as far as I can see has yet to post in any of the gaming subforums. Multiple posts calling for other members to be banned.

Occam's Razor says trolling alt, but that never happens here, right? ; )


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Again, gaming forum. Thats what it says on the tin. If you want to help promote and make space for hate speech (which if you consider 'meaningful' and are actually arguing to platform is the real red flag here), go to Parler or some other wannabee uberrace wankfest that will cater to you. They like that poison and theyll like you. You can have your own little circle there and leave everyone else get on with gaming.


You've come to the "World News, Current Events & Politics" space of your own accord. Also there is no reason why one space could not lend it self for something else perse. Like everything needs to be compartmentalized. The racism card is old, and lost any impact because of the over and misuse, im so over it. And so are many other people. Time to tend to those trauma wounds perhaps. It is like you WANT racism so bad since it is all you can do is talk about it. Like morgan freeman said, best thing against racism is, stop talking about it.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 27, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> Why click on the politics section then complain people are talking about politics in it?


Because people arent using it to talk 'politics', theyre using it to platform hate speech. This thread was started with white supremacist crap on it. If you cant get it off in good time then get rid of the lot and take away their excuse for putting it up.

Ive been lurking on these forums and have joined on and off in recent times. Im seeing the name again and again pushing that crap, the same ones above that are trying to defend having Police Lives Matter videos and throwing all kinds of straw into the wind. The wind is blowing in one direction though: white supremacist narratives are being platformed on this site, and the same few are trying to defend it. Get rid of them.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Never said gaming all the time, so no words in my mouth. I said get rid of politics ie ALL of it so people cant claim that theyre being singled out. The original point of this is that Police Lives Matter is a white supremacist argument and should not be platformed. Thats it. The only people who want to 'discuss' are those trying to garner support for that crap and the only ones crying when theyre called out about it. The primary purpose of this site should be gaming as described ("GBA"?"). I also never said theyre 'under every rock', there are plenty making room for them to operate here on this forum. Stop projecting, good man.


But politics is in the world and we seem to have had nice discussions for years and years now. Losing it now, indeed changing to your particular whims, would serve little purpose from where I sit and cause a moderation headache as we then get to decide "is political, is not political, is political but has direct relevance to games because some moron is trying to restrict them/lift restrictions/tax them/lose taxes on them/cause onerous burdens/lift onerous burdens on game devs...". Going with the old standby of "might not care for what you have to say but your right to say it is wonderful" seems like the easier route, and one that demonstrably works and is generally in line with the free to play it as you will thing that actually forms the backbone of the site ("my device, my rules" being the underpinning of the site ethos if there is one).

Why would I ascribe some kind of white supremacist hidden meaning to the phrase (not that the four white supremacists still around I guess in this case in the US have any real chance of bothering me/anybody) rather than reading it plain, not to mention variations of the theme have been around for years and years at this point (not like police are not attacked, underfunded, overstretched and whatever else at times and needing some community action to get them better sorted), and the reaction to it some kind of overreaction by clueless or maybe those with a vested interest in other lines of thought? Do we need to bust out the venn diagrams?


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Historically, its Black/POC groups who are by far and away the most discriminated against globally.


Does your "POC" include East Asians? East Asians are far less likely to be victims of police brutality wherever you find them. I wonder why? Could it be that they commit less crimes and therefore have to deal with police less often? Do they try to run away from police less often etc etc. We all kow the answer. That is why people who use the term POC try to exclude East Asians and come up with the ridiculous conspiracy theory that Whites turned East Asians into a model minority, i.e. East Asians do not have agency (e.g. study harder than other groups) but are simply pawns.
Are those white conspirators co-ordinating worldwide? Because for some odd reason, East Asians show the same behavior in countries around the world, including those in which there are basically no Whites. [I use the term "Whites" only because "European" is often misunderstood]


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## Chrisssj2 (Sep 27, 2021)

williamrubin69 said:


> Because people arent using it to talk 'politics', theyre using it to platform hate speech. This thread was started with white supremacist crap on it. If you cant get it off in good time then get rid of the lot and take away their excuse for putting it up.


Right if someone is for police lives matters, as nurse lives matter, store clerk lives matter, or whatever lives matters, thus you are white supremacist??!! but if you say black live matters, you are suddenly not white supremist? haha wth is this kinda logic.
You know there are also black police im just saying. xD

For all you know they might be not white at all, or I am not even. What do you know.
It is fantastical to see how you can term a very basic positive term Like, X live matter and Y live matter,  to something and link to hate speech, it just shows the lack of understanding and toxic mind when the statement itself is one of appreciation and love.

Now, if you are using that line to make others feel less then or to belittle as in, my live matter, and yours does not or as much, then that is a TOTALLY other subject.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 27, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> But politics is in the world and we seem to have had nice discussions for years and years now. Losing it now, indeed changing to your particular whims, would serve little purpose from where I sit and cause a moderation headache as we then get to decide "is political, is not political, is political but has direct relevance to games because some moron is trying to restrict them/lift restrictions/tax them/lose taxes on them/cause onerous burdens/lift onerous burdens on game devs...". Going with the old standby of "might not care for what you have to say but your right to say it is wonderful" seems like the easier route, and one that demonstrably works and is generally in line with the free to play it as you will thing that actually forms the backbone of the site ("my device, my rules" being the underpinning of the site ethos if there is one).
> 
> Why would I ascribe some kind of white supremacist hidden meaning to the phrase (not that the four white supremacists still around I guess in this case in the US have any real chance of bothering me/anybody) rather than reading it plain, not to mention variations of the theme have been around for years and years at this point (not like police are not attacked, underfunded, overstretched and whatever else at times and needing some community action to get them better sorted), and the reaction to it some kind of overreaction by clueless or maybe those with a vested interest in other lines of thought? Do we need to bust out the venn diagrams?


First bloody semi intelligent reply on this so fair play.  Having said that: I get the practical difficulties you describe and that ethos is fine...but its not politics being discussed here, its hate speech platforming being shoved under the 'politics' umbrella. its a different kettle of fish. Its not 'whims' and the Police Lives Matter reaction isnt just some benign phrase. its a white supremacist term (hence the capitalization I'm using of "Police Lives Matter"), its an umbrella under which that poison is pushed. It was a reaction to Black Lives Matter because some arseholes though that if discriminated communities got some relief, they automatically thought they were losing out (someone's earlier post tried projecting that earlier) hence the counter claims of 'white racism'. It pretends to support police when in reality its just a paranoid reaction to the genuine grievances of Black/minority communities. Issues of poor police funding etc is a separate issue, thats just being used as an excuse to promote what behind the Police Lives Matter "brand".

If you can prevent hate speech platforming without getting rid of the Politics section then sure keep it. But so far it hasnt happened, hence my arguing for its removal. Up to yourselves of course.


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## Deleted member 569431 (Sep 27, 2021)

Chrisssj2 said:


> Right if someone is for police lives matters, as nurse lives matter, store clerk lives matter, or whatever lives matters, thus you are white supremacist??!! but if you say black live matters, you are suddenly not white supremist? haha wth is this kinda logic.
> You know there are also black police im just saying. xD
> 
> For all you know they might be not white at all, or I am not even. What do you know.
> ...





Chrisssj2 said:


> Right if someone is for police lives matters, as nurse lives matter, store clerk lives matter, or whatever lives matters, thus you are white supremacist??!! but if you say black live matters, you are suddenly not white supremist? haha wth is this kinda logic.
> You know there are also black police im just saying. xD
> 
> For all you know they might be not white at all, or I am not even. What do you know.
> ...





Chrisssj2 said:


> Right if someone is for police lives matters, as nurse lives matter, store clerk lives matter, or whatever lives matters, thus you are white supremacist??!! but if you say black live matters, you are suddenly not white supremist? haha wth is this kinda logic.
> You know there are also black police im just saying. xD
> 
> For all you know they might be not white at all, or I am not even. What do you know.
> ...



Theres a difference between saying "Police lives matter" and "Police Lives Matter", those capital letters make all the difference. Im talking about Police Lives Matter, which was a counter narrative set up in reaction to Black Lives Matter by white supremacists. Its has no other purpose then to 'silence' those injustices highlighted by Black Lives Matter. Thats it in a nutshell. Its not interested in promoting the welfare of the police, its looking to hijack whatever grievances they have and try and use them to 'silence' those highlighted by the Black Lives Matter movement. That is why Im saying videos and arguments promoting Police Lives Matter need to be banned from here. Thats what it comes down to.

Lads I really am leaving it at this point, all the best.


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## Cosmic_Link (Sep 27, 2021)

Having watched the video in the OP, I have mixed feelings about parts of this. 

Clearly the guy with the sticker on his laptop has knowingly gone into a “Multicultural Space” with a controversial slogan stuck to his laptop with the intention to provoke a reaction and antagonise people. I appreciate that people have their own views, opinions and beliefs, but given all that has been going on over the last 12 months with regards to marginalised communities and law enforcement I think this was a very insensitive thing to do. You can’t tell me that this guy didn’t know exactly what he was doing.

On the flip side I also do not agree with the idea of a “Multicultural Space”. Does this not lead to the kind of segregation that BLM and similar causes are very much trying to eradicate? You want “Multiculture Spaces” with the idea of exclusive area for people who are not white, but then make comments that “Reverse Racism is not a thing”? I really do not understand this logic, somebody care to explain? 

I personally think that this whole video is full very childish people who are trying to push their views onto other people and are going the complete wrong way of getting any valid points across. It’s almost like both parties involved were just going out of their way and looking for confrontation.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 27, 2021)

Guy can have whatever stickers he wants on his laptop, it’s his laptop. Anyone who has a problem with that has issues that go deeper than just getting triggered over a sticker. If you don’t like the logo or the words then I’ve got great news for you - it’s not your laptop. You don’t have to read them, you don’t have to look at them, you don’t even have to interact with the person displaying them at all.


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## Hanafuda (Sep 27, 2021)

Cosmic_Link said:


> Clearly the guy with the sticker on his laptop has knowingly gone into a “Multicultural Space” with a controversial slogan stuck to his laptop with the intention to provoke a reaction and antagonise people. I appreciate that people have their own views, opinions and beliefs, but given all that has been going on over the last 12 months with regards to marginalised communities and law enforcement I think this was a very insensitive thing to do. You can’t tell me that this guy didn’t know exactly what he was doing.



You're certainly correct, there was definitely an intention to provoke a response, and it worked. When liberals do that to create a controversy, such as with the gay wedding cake request at Masterpiece Cakeshop, it's called activism.

Whether you agree with the position of the person attempting to evoke a response is secondary to whether you think kind of political "activism" by laying a trap is acceptable. Personally I don't like it, regardless of who's doing it. But there's no reason only leftist/progressive causes get excused for it. These guys wanted to bring attention to de facto racial segregation and suppression of speech at a public institution, and it worked.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 11, 2021)

Good riddance!
https://washingtonwatch.org/breakin...f-blm-activist-seen-harassing-white-students/


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## subcon959 (Oct 11, 2021)

I usually have a visceral reaction to whenever I perceive injustice so that video was tough to watch.

From everything I've heard over the last few years, it seems American universities are in a really bad state. I wonder if the actual reality is how it seems or if it's blown out of proportion.


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## CMDreamer (Oct 11, 2021)

I'm going to say this hoping it won't get missunderstood and with a total sense of respect to all lives taken under all possible circumstances:

I don't like to play victim, nor victimizer, I'm beyond that point.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 11, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> I usually have a visceral reaction to whenever I perceive injustice so that video was tough to watch.
> 
> From everything I've heard over the last few years, it seems American universities are in a really bad state. I wonder if the actual reality is how it seems or if it's blown out of proportion.


This society is broken


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Guy can have whatever stickers he wants on his laptop, it’s his laptop. Anyone who has a problem with that has issues that go deeper than just getting triggered over a sticker. If you don’t like the logo or the words then I’ve got great news for you - it’s not your laptop. You don’t have to read them, you don’t have to look at them, you don’t even have to interact with the person displaying them at all.


From the Communist Symbols thread

"People can follow whatever ideologies they want, it doesn’t bother me - we’ll only have a problem if they show up on my doorstep to enact their nonsense..."

Isn't that what this guy did though? Purposely put a sticker the people's doorstep he showed up on knowing it would cause a negative reaction? 

Freedom of speech is something recognized by both sides, but neither side seems to understand that freedom of speech does not absolve freedom of repercussions. The guy showed up to a place he shouldn't have been in, displaying ideals he knew would not be welcomed, and got thrown out. It's literally the same mentality behind the baker that refused to make a cake for the gay wedding the Republicans whined about, last year I believe it was. 

Here's a comparison: when leftists evoke a response, it's called activism. It seems to be that the general  consensus of this thread is that, if leftists are allowed to incite activism, then rights should be able to incite activism as well, correct? Well, for years POC were segregated from using anything a white person used, from schools to transportation, to bathrooms. So why can't there be multi cultural establishments that promote multi cultural development? For years Americans were taught white only history, and it should be kept that way?


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## Arecaidian Fox (Oct 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Guy can have whatever stickers he wants on his laptop, it’s his laptop. Anyone who has a problem with that has issues that go deeper than just getting triggered over a sticker. If you don’t like the logo or the words then I’ve got great news for you - it’s not your laptop. You don’t have to read them, you don’t have to look at them, you don’t even have to interact with the person displaying them at all.


Wear a Nazi armband to a Synagogue and tell us how your opinion here pans out. This kid showed up to a space with something, if not currently offensive, at _least_ insensitive. And while I'm willing to give a benefit of the doubt, I also can't be mad at the other kids in that room who were upset.

EDIT: Folks do need to chill out about symbols, you aren't wrong there. But there are some things that just are not acceptable.


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## ElSasori69 (Oct 12, 2021)

The man: yeah, wow, what a nice and quite place to study, let's do homework.
Crystal Gem: YOU ARE OFFENDING ME BY EXISTING


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## Dr_Faustus (Oct 12, 2021)

All lives matter so to that extent no one really matters.

Just worry about yourself and those you care about, that's all that should matter in the end. I just miss the days when people were not at each other's throats about "what should matter" in our world today and to ourselves. 

Plus who the hell knows with those supporting Police, maybe they have family that are in the force and support them. Not everything is as black and white as what these simple minded people and media outlets like to paint things as anymore. Its just arrogance and ignorance masquerading as insightful and progressive. 




Cosmic_Link said:


> On the flip side I also do not agree with the idea of a “Multicultural Space”. Does this not lead to the kind of segregation that BLM and similar causes are very much trying to eradicate? You want “Multiculture Spaces” with the idea of exclusive area for people who are not white, but then make comments that “Reverse Racism is not a thing”? I really do not understand this logic, somebody care to explain?


Its already been a thing for awhile now. The end results of the protests rather than society changing endevors for the betterment of everyone has instead resulted in just acting/voice acting roles to be segregated by colour/sex now. Its why your current animated TV show switched up some VA's recenty to avoid backlash. But ultimately while on paper its a nice idea for a black person to voice a black character on TV, the reverse can be true making it so that anyone regardless of voice talent will be restricted to only voicing those who match their nationality and/or sex. Its a flawed concept that is going to cause more problems than good in the long run. People are just too narrow minded to see how its all going to pan out in the end.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

ElSasori69 said:


> The man: yeah, wow, what a nice and quite place to study, let's do homework.
> Crystal Gem: YOU ARE OFFENDING ME BY EXISTING


Imagine how the Nazis felt.  /s

=====

Multicultural space does not lead to segregation, looking down on POC and seeing them as inferior leads to segregation. If you can't be educated enough to see that someone who says "All lives matter" should be open to learning about other cultures, maybe you're the narrow minded one?


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## djpannda (Oct 12, 2021)

what is wrong with America?
You mean I cant wear my NAZI uniform in a jewish Community center.
OR Black face in the Slavery and Emancipation Museum?

man who would of thought that having items associated with Rascism would have a negiative effect.. especially knowing what the item represents but playing it off as its not?


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> what is wrong with America?
> You mean I cant wear my NAZI uniform in a jewish Community center.
> OR Black face in the Slavery and Emancipation Museum?
> 
> man who would of thought that having items associated with Rascism would have a negiative effect.. especially knowing what the item represents but playing it off as its not?


Imagine having 99% of the entire school in which to study competently, and you choose the one place you know your sticker will cause a scene at so you can whine about white culture and how your parents failed you financially.

I wonder how those poor Polish people feel when the kids slap hammer & sickle and Swastika stickers on their laptops and proceed to brazenly "study" out in the open.

I guess someone should tell them to get over it, huh?

Edit: inb4 the obligatory "but they're not the same!" defense argument


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## djpannda (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Imagine having 99% of the entire school in which to study competently, and you choose the one place you know your sticker will cause a scene at so you can whine about white culture and how your parents failed you financially.
> 
> I wonder how those poor Polish people feel when the kids slap hammer & sickle and Swastika stickers on their laptops and proceed to brazenly "study" out in the open.
> 
> ...


people want to cry Freedom but don't understand consequences. Your Free to ignore the Rasicist undertone of what your doing but the by Practicing that Freedom you also inviting the consequences.. be it 1)being Ostracized. 2)publicly confronted or 3) having someone punching a NAZI in the face...
lol the new NAZI SLOGAN . " Reserve the Right to be punched in the face"


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

Or they want freedom but only for their ideals. At least with multi culturalism, the idea is that every culture is influential and important, as opposed to what America preached before 50 years ago


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## ElSasori69 (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Imagine having 99% of the entire school in which to study competently, and you choose the one place you know your sticker will cause a scene at so you can whine about white culture and how your parents failed you financially.
> 
> I wonder how those poor Polish people feel when the kids slap hammer & sickle and Swastika stickers on their laptops and proceed to brazenly "study" out in the open.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, too bad there isn't other ways too confront these kind of actitudes that are not violent by itself, like I don't know, just ignore him as long as they don't do something extrema like paint on the walls or physically disturbs the people in that place, there was no need for all of what happened, you can even film him, that's Ok, and then give him a warning, "if we see you again with that sticker we are going to report you, we don't want that bullshit in our special space, we can let you be here as long as you don't cause any fuss. You've been warned." Done, not so agressive, not so much troubles, but first thing people that want to complain is trhow a tantrum, that's not okay.


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## MadonnaProject (Oct 12, 2021)

Last year during the election, someone made a post on this website. The guy was obsessively bragging about biden winning. The way he typed, it was clear he was from african american background. This may be news to some but people around the world can tell from certain cues as to who is speaking sometimes.

I engaged in a discussion but it became so stupid and at one point he was throwing around silly insults which americans from such a background usually do that I stopped responding. With what is going on in america I wonder today how this guy is justifying the biden presidency.

Anyways I digress, when I saw the headline I thought to myself "I bet a caucasian person was kicked out and the person doing the kicking out was either female or black". Well.

P.s:  I am actually african so lay off please. Just stating my opinion. Then again, in america that's the biggest infraction.


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## djpannda (Oct 12, 2021)

ElSasori69 said:


> Oh yeah, too bad there isn't other ways too confront these kind of actitudes that are not violent by itself, like I don't know, just ignore him as long as they don't do something extrema like paint on the walls or physically disturbs the people in that place, there was no need for all of what happened, you can even film him, that's Ok, and then give him a warning, "if we see you again with that sticker we are going to report you, we don't want that bullshit in our special space, we can let you be here as long as you don't cause any fuss. You've been warned." Done, not so agressive, not so much troubles, but first thing people that want to complain is trhow a tantrum, that's not okay.


I concede that point. They should of handed it a better. But we also don’t know the context (maybe not the first time that him or people purposely go there with the intention of displaying stickers or signs with racist overtones )


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

I also agree that things could have been handled differently. When politely asked to leave, and then ignored, the proper thing would more than likely have been to get in contact with an official that's better equipped to handle these things. On the other hand, the white students could have also acknowledged that they had offended the students in the one multicultural room they have in the entirety of the school and done something as simple as covering the offensive sticker if they were that adamant to stay. 

The problem with that argument is that you're (indirectly, I'll assume) invalidating the stance and importance behind getting the multicultural center in the first place, and (also indirectly, I'm assuming) implying that the aggressor to any situation, in this case the white students with their blatant disregard for offense, should be more validated than the offensed simply because you disagree with the ideals of the offended. 

Could the POC handled things better? Of course. But when confronted with blatant disregard and obvious attempt at offense, why should they have to be the bigger person? At some point we're not arguing ethics anymore, we're arguing audacity


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## subcon959 (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> why should they have to be the bigger person?



This is the crux of the matter. Do people want actual equality or just revenge? Being the bigger person is the most difficult path but it also holds the most rewards. Compassion and understanding is the best way to defeat ignorance in my opinion. I'm blanking on the name of the gentleman right now, but he is well known for converting KKK and other white supremacists by befriending them.

Ahh, yeah Daryl Davis.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

It's difficult to navigate, because often times education can seem like revenge, especially concerning the circumstances that preceded such education. I'm constantly torn between ideologies like that of Malcolm X and MLK Jr, and not even just from a racial or civil perspective. Like, I completely agree with you in most aspects, but I also know that, realistically, some people just aren't worth the compassion they're given. 

It's a sad state of society. I wish we had more people like Daryl Davis, so the other mentality wouldn't have to even be entertained.


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## BananaGaurdian11 (Oct 12, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


>



That's racism against white people as a whole. We have many cultures and just because we're from Europe does not mean we think we're better than everyone else. That is racism.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

BananaGaurdian11 said:


> That's racism against white people as a whole. We have many cultures and just because we're from Europe does not mean we think we're better than everyone else. That is racism.


God, I hope it is. After all these years, it's about time we know how it feels to be discriminated against because of the color of our skin. 

Please, elaborate. How is this racism?


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> God, I hope it is. After all these years, it's about time we know how it feels to be discriminated against because of the color of our skin.
> 
> Please, elaborate. How is this racism?


Replace the word white with black and Europe with Africa if it sounds racist at that point, it is. A great test is to change the color and if all of a sudden it becomes racist to you... You may want to do some hard thinking.


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## djpannda (Oct 12, 2021)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Replace the word white with black and Europe with Africa if it sounds racist at that point, it is. A great test is to change the color and if all of a sudden it becomes racist to you... You may want to do some hard thinking.


You right.!! If we do it against White people its racist and we need to stop it. . if we do it toward minorities, They just need to accept our view!!


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> You right.!! If we do it against White people its racist and we need to stop it. . if we do it toward minorities, They just need to accept our view!!


That's completely wrong, how you did the mental gymnastics to come up with that load of crap I will never know. Also hate to break it to you... White people are in the minority on this planet as well as most races lol (Asians are the vast majority) so maybe do a bit more thinking.


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## ElSasori69 (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> I also agree that things could have been handled differently. When politely asked to leave, and then ignored, the proper thing would more than likely have been to get in contact with an official that's better equipped to handle these things. On the other hand, the white students could have also acknowledged that they had offended the students in the one multicultural room they have in the entirety of the school and done something as simple as covering the offensive sticker if they were that adamant to stay.
> 
> The problem with that argument is that you're (indirectly, I'll assume) invalidating the stance and importance behind getting the multicultural center in the first place, and (also indirectly, I'm assuming) implying that the aggressor to any situation, in this case the white students with their blatant disregard for offense, should be more validated than the offensed simply because you disagree with the ideals of the offended.
> 
> Could the POC handled things better? Of course. But when confronted with blatant disregard and obvious attempt at offense, why should they have to be the bigger person? At some point we're not arguing ethics anymore, we're arguing audacity


It has to do with ethics a lot, and It's alway better to be the bigger person, you shouldn't be an asshole to a person just because some other people did to you when you was young. that's prejudice, and I think that was the base of antiracism don't justge people because their race, or their culture.


SyphenFreht said:


> God, I hope it is. After all these years, it's about time we know how it feels to be discriminated against because of the color of our skin.
> 
> Please, elaborate. How is this racism?


hmm let's see, ok, let's say "In this establishment, just white people are permited, if you are not a white man you can't enter here, the workers are instructed to serve coffee only to white people" now change it for black and now all It's ok, right?, there's nothing bad, because latins, black people or women can't be the bad people ever, they are always good people, right?... All kind of discrimination should be a big no to normal people and as grown ups and decent people, we all should be able to talk each other, or simply ignore, tolerate. Try to be better person is what people should learn, not find ways to justify unrespectful attitudes. I'm latino by the way, and no, I'm not from méxico but I don't care that much.


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## djpannda (Oct 12, 2021)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> That's completely wrong, how you did the mental gymnastics to come up with that load of crap I will never know. Also hate to break it to you... White people are in the minority on this planet as well as most races lol (Asians are the vast majority) so maybe do a bit more thinking.


no I agreee with your viticm blaming. White people need to be protected class.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Replace the word white with black and Europe with Africa if it sounds racist at that point, it is. A great test is to change the color and if all of a sudden it becomes racist to you... You may want to do some hard thinking.



When it's put that simply, organically, you're correct. However, I've yet to see in America where whites were actively regarded as less than human for centuries on end in a country that was built upon the backs of and yet systematically disregarded against for an even longer amount of time. 

When I start seeing "No Whites Allowed" signs and riots against whites trying to attend school, I'll take your point to heart. 



Psionic Roshambo said:


> That's completely wrong, how you did the mental gymnastics to come up with that load of crap I will never know. Also hate to break it to you... White people are in the minority on this planet as well as most races lol (Asians are the vast majority) so maybe do a bit more thinking.



"Mental gymnastics". From someone who proved themselves quite the mental gymnast themselves when quoting my comment above. 

I'm glad you've realized that, globally, white people are the minority. Tell me how that's relevant to a situation regarding a predominantly white school in a predominantly white country that's known for having predominantly white people owning slaves and generally treating POC as less than human. 

Go on. I'll wait.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> no I agreee with your viticm blaming. White people need to be protected class.


So you built a straw man and fought it.... congrats you won! Not sure where you found a victim I blamed or who I was blaming for anything but phantoms they be like that.


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## djpannda (Oct 12, 2021)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> So you built a straw man and fought it.... congrats you won! Not sure where you found a victim I blamed or who I was blaming for anything but phantoms they be like that.


I don't know why your fighting with me... im on your side ... White have statically abused and  taken advantage of for Hundreds of years.. its not like 99% of American wealth and political power have been exclusively white for the Entire time.... its not like American has been Historically known to have a War with itself for Basic Human Rights...  that would be crazy


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> When it's put that simply, organically, you're correct. However, I've yet to see in America where whites were actively regarded as less than human for centuries on end in a country that was built upon the backs of and yet systematically disregarded against for an even longer amount of time.
> 
> When I start seeing "No Whites Allowed" signs and riots against whites trying to attend school, I'll take your point to heart.
> 
> ...


You wont have to wait long, a lot of people fought and died to free those slaves a tiny while ago, maybe it was last week.... I haven't been keeping up on the news lately. Seriously even my own race was enslaved at one time and slaughtered by huge numbers, but hey the past is the past. You can learn from it yes, but living in it no. People should value each other, no matter the race the religion or any other factors. When you start lumping people into groups of any kind, demanding justice because they are group X. That's the kind of logic that lead to Hitler gaining power... He blamed the Jews for everything wrong in Germany. What a time to be white and Jewish lol I think they even skinned some of them for lampshades.... But hey your favorite victim race/religion surely was treated worse right? Now please just be kind to each other... No one should be made into furniture. lol


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

ElSasori69 said:


> It has to do with ethics a lot, and It's alway better to be the bigger person, you shouldn't be an asshole to a person just because some other people did to you when you was young. that's prejudice, and I think that was the base of antiracism don't justge people because their race, or their culture.



You wouldn't be wrong, except you're saying this in regard to people that had their space invaded by people who were trying to get a rise out of what was supposed to be considered a safe space for people of color. You're victimizing the aggressor by projecting the actual victims as being overly aggressive instead of just being defensive, when the white students should have never used that situation to incite aggression in the first place. 



ElSasori69 said:


> hmm let's see, ok, let's say "In this establishment, just white people are permited, if you are not a white man you can't enter here, the workers are instructed to serve coffee only to white people" now change it for black and now all It's ok, right?, there's nothing bad, because latins, black people or women can't be the bad people ever, they are always good people, right?... All kind of discrimination should be a big no to normal people and as grown ups and decent people, we all should be able to talk each other, or simply ignore, tolerate. Try to be better person is what people should learn, not find ways to justify unrespectful attitudes. I'm latino by the way, and no, I'm not from méxico but I don't care that much.



Except, that's not what happened. White students entered a multi cultural class/study room with the intention of inciting offense. Then when confronted with the idea of it multi cultural, they retorted with white culture, which seems to be an argument that's only used in relation to anybody learning anything that isn't white. I can't agree with whites not having culture or there not being white culture in general, but I know a big part of American white culture is the  ~250 years of active slavery and POC discrimination, which I've found most white people like to gloss in an effort to stay culturally relevant. That being said, most black culture has evolved from Americanized slavery, as most slaves cannot trace their ancestry past slavery, while most whites can completely trace their ancestral history, of which culture embraces wholeheartedly. 

I agree, discrimination should be a thing of the past, but when confronted by people who use it as a platform to incite aggression, how can you expect every POC to be the bigger person? Instead of telling POC to basically,  "just walk away", why not go after the people who purposely disrespect the progress POC have made?


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> You wont have to wait long, a lot of people fought and died to free those slaves a tiny while ago, maybe it was last week.... I haven't been keeping up on the news lately. Seriously even my own race was enslaved at one time and slaughtered by huge numbers, but hey the past is the past. You can learn from it yes, but living in it no. People should value each other, no matter the race the religion or any other factors. When you start lumping people into groups of any kind, demanding justice because they are group X. That's the kind of logic that lead to Hitler gaining power... He blamed the Jews for everything wrong in Germany. What a time to be white and Jewish lol I think they even skinned some of them for lampshades.... But hey your favorite victim race/religion surely was treated worse right? Now please just be kind to each other... No one should be made into furniture. lol



Who's living in the past? The students of color who have one classroom out of a whole campus to be free from racial scrutiny, or the white kids who used an offensive banner from some time ago to incite an aggressive response that's rooted in hundreds of years of racial discrimination? 

Good point though. Maybe if we converted the racists, there wouldn't be much racism. I think converting openly racist groups like the KKK and the Proud Boys instead of a small group of multi ethnic students minding their business would be a better place to start? Or is that too regressive for you?


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Who's living in the past? The students of color who have one classroom out of a whole campus to be free from racial scrutiny, or the white kids who used an offensive banner from some time ago to incite an aggressive response that's rooted in hundreds of years of racial discrimination?
> 
> Good point though. Maybe if we converted the racists, there wouldn't be much racism. I think converting openly racist groups like the KKK and the Proud Boys instead of a small group of multi ethnic students minding their business would be a better place to start? Or is that too regressive for you?



I am pretty sure the only people who like the KKK or the Proud Boys or The Black Panthers or Nazis any of the "We only like one color" type of group are pretty vile. Trying to lump me into them so I can fit in your straw man argument won't really work. I don't like any kind of gangs, I don't support them. I really wish people would treat everyone with respect.


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## impeeza (Oct 12, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


>



stupid people who only want to fight about anything, ALL LIFE MATTER.

multiculture is not about respect ANYBODY point of view?


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 12, 2021)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> I am pretty sure the only people who like the KKK or the Proud Boys or The Black Panthers or Nazis any of the "We only like one color" type of group are pretty vile. Trying to lump me into them so I can fit in your straw man argument won't really work. I don't like any kind of gangs, I don't support them. I really wish people would treat everyone with respect.



I wasn't trying to lump you in with any of the above organizations, and I apologize if my response made it appear that way. 

No, my comparison was in response to the overly apparent theme that, while I'm not implying you or anyone particular is toting the mentality, any time POC run into a problem like this, it's always on them to be the bigger person and incite change through compassion, instead of correcting the offenders at the core through education. Reform shouldn't always have to come at the hands of response.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 12, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> I wasn't trying to lump you in with any of the above organizations, and I apologize if my response made it appear that way.
> 
> No, my comparison was in response to the overly apparent theme that, while I'm not implying you or anyone particular is toting the mentality, any time POC run into a problem like this, it's always on them to be the bigger person and incite change through compassion, instead of correcting the offenders at the core through education. Reform shouldn't always have to come at the hands of response.


Oh I am sure the person who initiated this whole ordeal was a complete and insensitive ass, and they should be the ones to change. We just have to be ever vigilant that in destroying our enemies that we don't become them ourselves. There will always be assholes in this world... Sadly a lot of them will never see how bad off they are, nothing we say or do will change them. 

Some people (no race or color or religion involved) are just born messed up and making others suffer or feel bad is how they feel better. Me I like seeing everyone happy as possible, even if it costs me being happy. If I could make the world a better place, even if it cost me my life, I would gladly give it. 

Racists of any kind are the worst of the worst, I grew up in one of the worst racist towns in America. I think they had a cross burning on someone's lawn in 2018... I thankfully don't live there anymore but I got beat up a lot as a kid for making friends with a black family that lived near me. Racists are a hateful people... I took my beatings with pride, knowing that I was stronger than they where. I didn't need a group and my ideals couldn't be beat out of me. In the end I am sure they are just as vile now as they where then lol over 30 years ago since I lived there (almost out of highschool) I have seen the worst, I have seen the best, I really wished people would be better and make better choices and help each other, color be damned lol


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 13, 2021)

"We fought 5 years to get that space"
and many others fought to get rid of it
One of those being Martin Luther King Jr
- Some guy from the youtube comment section


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Wear a Nazi armband to a Synagogue and tell us how your opinion here pans out. This kid showed up to a space with something, if not currently offensive, at _least_ insensitive. And while I'm willing to give a benefit of the doubt, I also can't be mad at the other kids in that room who were upset.
> 
> EDIT: Folks do need to chill out about symbols, you aren't wrong there. But there are some things that just are not acceptable.


In a free society where freedom of speech is respected the action you’ve just described should be permissible. Frowned upon, to be sure, but permissible. Freedom of speech exists to protect all speech, this includes a subset of speech you don’t like. The difference here is that your hypothetical synagogue (cutting right down to the chase with an absurd argument, I like it) is private property and a place of worship - the rabbi can eject anyone who doesn’t belong from said property as its sole administrator, particularly if the individual is interrupting the gathering’s right to religious worship, although admittedly, just “sitting there” isn’t much of an interruption. Back to the subject at hand, the students are not administrators of the college they go to and they do not get to decide who stays and who goes, nor do they decide what stickers are and are not permissible. If the college is public then you’re welcome to display any message you like that is permitted by law since you’re protected by the First in the same way you would be in any other public setting, if it is private then it’s the dean’s responsibility to set such boundaries. Lastly, and probably most importantly, the text presented on the sticker is not offensive or insensitive in any context, unless you wish to mount an argument that police lives specifically don’t matter based on their chosen occupation, which would expose a degree of bigotry on your part, but you’re welcome to do that if you’d like.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

https://eoss.asu.edu/multicultural-communities


This link explains the reasoning behind and point of the multicultural center, that being of providing a safe space for, paraphrased, students of color that have been underrepresented, to learn and grow in an environment free from racial inequality


https://www.liberationnews.org/asu-students-fight-to-defend-multicultural-center/


This link purports that the students were asked to put away their offensive materials, then asked to leave, then demanded to leave, after multiple refusals, by the MCC organizers themselves, most likely in addition to the students


https://bellinghammetronews.com/new...icultural-center-at-arizona-state-university/


This link calls the students of color BLM members, because if anyone wants to whine about activism, it's the right wing conservatives in their attempt to continuously stay racially dominant 



Foxi4 said:


> ...Lastly, and probably most importantly, the text presented on the sticker is not offensive or insensitive in any context, unless you wish to mount an argument that police lives specifically don’t matter based on their chosen occupation, which would expose a degree of bigotry on your part, but you’re welcome to do that if you’d like.


You don't get to pick and choose what other people are allowed to find insensitive or offensive, any more than any is allowed to tell you that you have no business being offended by communist symbols and propaganda, to whatever degree you may find yourself offended by such ideologies, as per the Communist Symbols thread we were a part of last week. You can compare the severity of the two all you want, you have the freedom to do so, but to defiantly argue that all communist propaganda and symbols are bad because they're bad to you, just to turn around and invalidate someone else's offense because you don't agree with their idea of offense? That makes you a hypocrite. Comrade.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> https://eoss.asu.edu/multicultural-communities
> 
> 
> This link explains the reasoning behind and point of the multicultural center, that being of providing a safe space for, paraphrased, students of color that have been underrepresented, to learn and grow in an environment free from racial inequality
> ...


People who find everything offensive make this world a horrible place


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

You're absolutely right. If only those POC students were allowed to have their space, only the racists would be offended.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> You're absolutely right. If only those POC students were allowed to have their space, only the racists would be offended.


Right


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 13, 2021)

I did a bit of research and I found out the racist person in the video was actually arrested last year for assualt on a police officer


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I did a bit of research and I found out the racist person in the video was actually arrested last year for assualt on a police officer


 Would you mind linking what you've found? I'd like to check that out myself


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## Arecaidian Fox (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> In a free society where freedom of speech is respected the action you’ve just described should be permissible. Frowned upon, to be sure, but permissible. Freedom of speech exists to protect all speech, this includes a subset of speech you don’t like. The difference here is that your hypothetical synagogue (cutting right down to the chase with an absurd argument, I like it) is private property and a place of worship - the rabbi can eject anyone who doesn’t belong from said property as its sole administrator, particularly if the individual is interrupting the gathering’s right to religious worship, although admittedly, just “sitting there” isn’t much of an interruption. Back to the subject at hand, the students are not administrators of the college they go to and they do not get to decide who stays and who goes, nor do they decide what stickers are and are not permissible. If the college is public then you’re welcome to display any message you like that is permitted by law since you’re protected by the First in the same way you would be in any other public setting, if it is private then it’s the dean’s responsibility to set such boundaries. Lastly, and probably most importantly, the text presented on the sticker is not offensive or insensitive in any context, unless you wish to mount an argument that police lives specifically don’t matter based on their chosen occupation, which would expose a degree of bigotry on your part, but you’re welcome to do that if you’d like.


Wow, way to word salad your way up to some kind of bogus moral high ground. You have succeeded in sucking any sense of nuance from the subject, congratulations  . I guess in that respect, "you win" since I have zero damned interest to responding more directly to your babble. Plus, @SyphenFreht already said it best.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Would you mind linking what you've found? I'd like to check that out myself


https://patriotsignal.com/breaking-top-university-cover-up-exposed-quietly-deleted/


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## Xzi (Oct 13, 2021)

COVID-19 was the leading cause of death for police officers in 2020.  If they don't even care about preserving their own lives through basic preventative measures, why should anyone else advocate for them?


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If the college is public then you’re welcome to display any message you like that is permitted by law since you’re protected by the First in the same way you would be in any other public setting, if it is private then it’s the dean’s responsibility to set such boundaries.



That is not accurate. Public schools can 100% absolutely have a code that prohibits political/social messages on flags, signs, clothing, etc. What they can't do is be unfair, like tell someone they can have a Black Lives Matter banner but then tell someone else they can't have a Police Lives Matter banner.


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## Xzi (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> What they can't do is be unfair, like tell someone they can have a Black Lives Matter banner but then tell someone else they can't have a Police Lives Matter banner.


How exactly is making a distinction between something you can't change (your race), and something you can change (your job), unfair?  It's a distinction that _must_ be made by anyone who isn't arguing in bad faith.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 13, 2021)

Xzi said:


> COVID-19 was the leading cause of death for police officers in 2020.  If they don't even care about preserving their own lives through basic preventative measures, why should anyone else advocate for them?




Have you considered _why_? That maybe they were required to be in close physical contact and proximity with sick people on a regular basis as part of their jobs? Before there were vaccinations. It's a reality for cops at all times, not just during Covid. Of the handful of people I knew who had Covid in 2020, almost all of them were police officers. It's not that they didn't wear masks ... the _good_ masks ... and nitrile gloves ... it was that they were regularly in contact with people who didn't do any of those things, and with each other of course.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Have you considered _why_? That maybe they were required to be in close physical contact and proximity with sick people on a regular basis as part of their jobs? Before there were vaccinations. It's a reality for cops at all times, not just during Covid. Of the handful of people I knew who had Covid in 2020, almost all of them were police officers. It's not that they didn't wear masks ... the _good_ masks ... and nitrile gloves ... it was that they were regularly in contact with people who didn't do any of those things, and with each other of course.



And if at any point they weren't comfortable with the conditions, they were free to choose a different line of work, or pursue the field in a location that generally had better statistics concerning covid spread. What can't happen, however, are millions of POC who weren't comfortable with the way they were being treated, to change their skin color.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

Xzi said:


> How exactly is making a distinction between something you can't change (your race), and something you can change (your job), unfair?  It's a distinction that _must_ be made by anyone who isn't arguing in bad faith.



Seriously? C'mon. Because they can both be considered political statements. BLM is, after all, a self admitted political movement. You can't allow ones politics of choice but not others. But if it makes you feel better, change one to White Lives Matter, or to whever else would fit your own agenda needs more appropriately so as to not offend anyone. God forsake.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> And if at any point they weren't comfortable with the conditions, they were free to choose a different line of work, or pursue the field in a location that generally had better statistics concerning covid spread. What can't happen, however, are millions of POC who weren't comfortable with the way they were being treated, to change their skin color.




Have you spent years at a job working on a pension/retirement and then just drop it? Or did you try to relocate to a new state and new job in the middle of the lockdowns? Your suggestions aren't realistic. And the race issue and your perceptions about police conduct are beside the point of what police are involved in most of the time, which is responding to where 911 dispatch sends them. Whether it's someone committing a crime, or a homeless person needing transport to the hospital, or crowd control, the police officer doesn't choose where he/she gets sent, or with who they must come into contact. How they conduct themselves in those encounters, and our opinions about it, are beside the point that the job required direct physical contact with sick persons frequently while the rest of us stayed at home or maintained social distance.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Seriously? C'mon. Because they can both be considered political statements. BLM is, after all, a self admitted political movement. You can't allow ones politics of choice but not others. But if it makes you feel better, change one to White Lives Matter, or to whever else would fit your own agenda needs more appropriately so as to not offend anyone. God forsake.



Of course BLM is a political movement. Systemic racism has been a part of America's politics since America started using slavery as a primary method of construction and financial stability. The difference between that and Blue Lives Matter is that you have blatant racists stuttering over finding a competent reason to continue politicizing their racism. Otherwise, where was all this sudden backing the blue before POC really started fighting back with their treatment?  It sounds like you're the one getting offended because racists can't be racist.



Hanafuda said:


> Have you spent years at a job working on a pension/retirement and then just drop it? Or did you try to relocate to a new state and new job in the middle of the lockdowns? Your suggestions aren't realistic. And the race issue and your perceptions about police conduct are beside the point of what police are involved in most of the time, which is responding to where 911 dispatch sends them. Whether it's someone committing a crime, or a homeless person needing transport to the hospital, or crowd control, the police officer doesn't choose where he/she gets sent, or with who they must come into contact. How they conduct themselves in those encounters, and our opinions about it, are beside the point that the job required direct physical contact with sick persons frequently while the rest of us stayed at home or maintained social distance.



It's a shitty prospect, but unfortunately the difference lies in the fact that still have a choice. If I had sunk much of my career into the police force just to have covid happen, I'd be pretty pissed too. Relatedly, I have worked most of my career in a field that was deeply impacted by covid. Instead of continuously putting myself at risk, or staying at home wallowing in my own misery, I learned a trade that gave me a little wiggle room during the pandemic and still found a way to make it through financially unscathed. You say my suggestions aren't realistic, but look at the boom in remote jobs and rideshare/ courier services alone that exploded when the shutdown first happened. You can't tell me not one of those police officers took a job that ended up all but replacing their previous career and never went back. 

No, the fact of the matter is, we have POC who continue to be discriminated against, who don't want to be, and can't do much about it, and now we have people who can do something about their "discrimination", but choose not to, and instead whine about how terrible their *job* is. 

We're literally one good argument away from adamantly comparing them to the fast food workers who complain that they're not earning livable wages (not that I disagree with them, either)


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## Xzi (Oct 13, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> It's not that they didn't wear masks


It _is_ that the majority of them didn't wear masks.  And now the majority of them are refusing to get vaccinated, too.  Unfortunately for them, qualified immunity only shields them from much-needed accountability, not from airborne viruses.



D34DL1N3R said:


> Seriously? C'mon. Because they can both be considered political statements. BLM is, after all, a self admitted political movement. You can't allow ones politics of choice but not others. But if it makes you feel better, change one to White Lives Matter, or to whever else would fit your own agenda needs more appropriately so as to not offend anyone. God forsake.


Black Lives Matter as an organization is indeed politically active.  "Black lives matter" as a statement is not inherently political.  Additionally, if the "all lives matter" crowd were genuine in that belief, they'd be happy to join in protesting police brutality, as Americans of all races get murdered by police in staggering numbers every year.  The fact of the matter is that they aren't being genuine when they say that though, "all lives matter" and "police lives matter" are simply slogans meant to be dismissive of BLM's well-founded grievances.  They're intentionally confrontational and/or provocative in that sense.


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## subcon959 (Oct 13, 2021)

Since the sticker says "Police Matter" rather than "Police Lives Matter" couldn't it be a response to "Defund The Police" rather than "Black Lives Matter"? I don't know what their intentions were, but from my own perspective it's a complicated issue as I support BLM but at the same time oppose the idea of defunding the police.


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## Xzi (Oct 13, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Since the sticker says "Police Matter" rather than "Police Lives Matter" couldn't it be a response to "Defund The Police" rather than "Black Lives Matter"? I don't know what their intentions were, but from my own perspective it's a complicated issue as I support BLM but at the same time oppose the idea of defending the police.


It says "police lives matter."  The word "lives" is just hard to see because it's dark blue on a black background.


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## subcon959 (Oct 13, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It says "police lives matter."  The word "lives" is just hard to see because it's dark blue on a black background.


Damn, let down by my old eyes again.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> That is not accurate. Public schools can 100% absolutely have a code that prohibits political/social messages on flags, signs, clothing, etc. What they can't do is be unfair, like tell someone they can have a Black Lives Matter banner but then tell someone else they can't have a Police Lives Matter banner.


In Tinker vs. Des Moines the U.S. Supreme Court categorically stated that, I quote:


> ”Students do not shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and expression at the schoolhouse gate.”


If a student wants to display a sticker on their laptop, they are permitted to do so in a public school setting. Students are not allowed to disrupt proceedings, a sticker can hardly be considered a disruption. There is some disagreement and different rules in regards to permissible settings, or what constitutes a disruption, which is district-dependent, and you are correct in saying that schools cannot apply their rules in a discriminatory manner, but we’d have to delve into the nitty gritty of this particular school’s regulations to have this discussion. Broadly speaking, students do not waive their rights at the door.

More detail can be found here, if you want a more nuanced answer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_speech_(First_Amendment)


SyphenFreht said:


> You don't get to pick and choose what other people are allowed to find insensitive or offensive, any more than any is allowed to tell you that you have no business being offended by communist symbols and propaganda, to whatever degree you may find yourself offended by such ideologies, as per the Communist Symbols thread we were a part of last week. You can compare the severity of the two all you want, you have the freedom to do so, but to defiantly argue that all communist propaganda and symbols are bad because they're bad to you, just to turn around and invalidate someone else's offense because you don't agree with their idea of offense? That makes you a hypocrite. Comrade.


I do not prohibit people from displaying such symbols or eject them from public settings for doing so, which makes a world of difference. Never, not once, have I advocated that such symbols should be banned. The Constitution doesn’t protect fee-fees, it protects free speech and expression, and offensive speech in particular. You’re welcome to display communist iconography in public settings - I don’t find it “offensive”, as I stated in the thread you mention, which you would’ve known if you read it more closely. I quote:


Foxi4 said:


> They should be considered as equal to Nazi symbolism - it’s just another failed ideology from the past that was entirely based on hate and led to untold suffering. *I don’t necessarily find them offensive since hardly anything is “offensive” to me - I’m a free speech absolutist. People can follow whatever ideologies they want, it doesn’t bother me* - we’ll only have a problem if they show up on my doorstep to enact their nonsense. *In fact, the act of displaying such iconography allows me to quickly identify people who are not worth associating with.* Self-identifying with the ideals of communism is innately tied with several character flaws, so *it’s nice that they give us a dead giveaway instead of pretending that they’re not silly.*


You’re right, I was so offended and my stance was completely different, I’m such a hypocrite. Oh wait, I applied the exact same reasoning, regardless of whether I liked a particular symbol or not. In case people’s reading comprehension might be impaired by righteous indignation here, I am perfectly fine with anyone displaying or otherwise propagating communist iconography, particularly in public settings, but I will resist any attempt at imposing such a system on me in my own home, as is my right. Huh, weird. I think you may have misremembered a thing or two for the purposes of bolstering a flimsy argument. Oh, and I’m not your “comrade”, by the way.


Arecaidian Fox said:


> Wow, way to word salad your way up to some kind of bogus moral high ground. You have succeeded in sucking any sense of nuance from the subject, congratulations  . I guess in that respect, "you win" since I have zero damned interest to responding more directly to your babble. Plus, @SyphenFreht already said it best.


“I have no rebuttal, so I will feign offense and gallop towards the sunset on my high horse”.

It’s a sticker. Get over it.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 13, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It _is_ that the majority of them didn't wear masks.




Was not my experience with the police officers I know and work with. (no, I'm not a cop. State govt. job.) But that's here where I live, which isn't everywhere so I dunno maybe in Iowa or Oregon they didn't wear them on the job.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## duwen (Oct 13, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> People who find everything offensive make this world a horrible place


True... along with those who decide to 'censor' things that _*they*_ think _*may*_ cause offense to others.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I do not prohibit people from displaying such symbols or eject them from public settings for doing so, which makes a world of difference. Never, not once, have I advocated that such symbols should be banned. The Constitution doesn’t protect fee-fees, it protects free speech and expression, and offensive speech in particular. You’re welcome to display communist iconography in public settings - I don’t find it “offensive”, as I stated in the thread you mention, which you would’ve known if you read it more closely. I quote:
> 
> You’re right, I was so offended and my stance was completely different, I’m such a hypocrite. Oh wait, I applied the exact same reasoning, regardless of whether I liked a particular symbol or not. In case people’s reading comprehension might be impaired by righteous indignation here, I am perfectly fine with anyone displaying or otherwise propagating communist iconography, particularly in public settings, but I will resist any attempt at imposing such a system on me in my own home, as is my right. Huh, weird. I think you may have misremembered a thing or two for the purposes of bolstering a flimsy argument. Oh, and I’m not your “comrade”, by the way.


The point wasn't to whether you prohibit such symbolism and propaganda, or whether you were offended by any of this, what I said, otherwise, or not. It was the fact that you attempted to invalidate the offense that someone else took because you think the offense was unwarranted. In no part of your response did you address the reason why I quoted your words in particular; instead, you ignore the response in favor of packing circular arguments and tongue in cheek pot shots because you've run out of valid argument against the fact that, you evidently only think it's ok to be offended by the things you think is ok to be offended by. 

That's hypocrisy. You can deny it all you want, you can misdirect it all you want with made up arguments and rogue implications, but at the end of the day, you invalidate these people because they haven't experienced the same atrocities you may have, therefore their experience is worthless. 

So, after reading this "flimsy argument" closely, please enlighten the rest of the forum with how you're not a hypocrite because you're allowed to view communist symbols as offensive (regardless of whether you're offended by then or not), but POC aren't allowed to see Blue Lives Matter paraphernalia as offensive. 

You know, my original argument with you in particular.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Of course BLM is a political movement. Systemic racism has been a part of America's politics since America started using slavery as a primary method of construction and financial stability. The difference between that and Blue Lives Matter is that you have blatant racists stuttering over finding a competent reason to continue politicizing their racism. Otherwise, where was all this sudden backing the blue before POC really started fighting back with their treatment?  It sounds like you're the one getting offended because racists can't be racist.



Wft are you even talking about? "It sound like you're...."? You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like you're making incredibly stupid and baseless assumptions about me.



Xzi said:


> Black Lives Matter as an organization is indeed politically active.  "Black lives matter" as a statement is not inherently political.  Additionally, if the "all lives matter" crowd were genuine in that belief, they'd be happy to join in protesting police brutality, as Americans of all races get murdered by police in staggering numbers every year.  The fact of the matter is that they aren't being genuine when they say that though, "all lives matter" and "police lives matter" are simply slogans meant to be dismissive of BLM's well-founded grievances.  They're intentionally confrontational and/or provocative in that sense.



For fucks sake. THEIR OWN PAGE stated that they are a political movement. Yet here someone is arguing about what BLM is or is not. Your "additionally" is a bunch of hypocritical bullshit too. If the "black lives matter" crowd were genuine in that belief, they'd be happy to join in protesting black on black crimes and making the black lives in their own communities matter. And the facts of the matter, as you want to put them, are not facts whatsoever. All lives matter and police lives matter are not meant to be dismissive of BLM. As much as people butt hurt about those statements would like to believe otherwise, it's simple NOT the case. Nor are they intentionally confrontational... unlike BLM who actually are. Sit down. You literally don't know wtf you're talking about and I VERY highly doubt you've had any real life experience with violent and/or disruptive BLM crowds/protestors.


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## Dr_Faustus (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Multicultural space does not lead to segregation, *looking down on POC and seeing them as inferior leads to segregation*. If you can't be educated enough to see that someone who says "All lives matter" should be open to learning about other cultures, maybe you're the narrow minded one?



The same logic can be applied in reverse as well. If you want to look down on any race or any sex to feel better about yourself, that can be considered the same right? Or does it only work in one way? In which case that is considered hypocritical at worst to a lawful double standard at best.

Also I would tread lightly on where to throw that second half of your argument to. I might not be a POC, but I sure as hell do come from Irish descent enough to know of the history of hell they had to go through just to be accepted here in this country. But I am sure they do not teach that kind of history often anymore do they? Don't go insulting others without learning more about where they come from first, and maybe your arguments might have some weight behind you. Must be easy to assume that everyone you argue with never had roots of prejudice before.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> “I have no rebuttal, so I will feign offense and gallop towards the sunset on my high horse”.
> 
> It’s a sticker. Get over it.


Says the "moderator" who low-key called me a fascist just a couple responses ago? Get over _yourself_ and this stupid hill you're dying on.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Wft are you even talking about? "It sound like you're...."? You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like you're making incredibly stupid and baseless assumptions about me.


It would be baseless if you didn't present yourself that way. It's also starting to sound like someone's getting a little butthurt over a friendly forum discussion. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, maybe you should check out another thread?


D34DL1N3R said:


> For fucks sake. THEIR OWN PAGE stated that they are a political movement. Yet here someone is arguing about what BLM is or is not. Your "additionally" is a bunch of hypocritical bullshit too. If the "black lives matter" crowd were genuine in that belief, they'd be happy to join in protesting black on black crimes and making the black lives in their own communities matter. And the facts of the matter, as you want to put them, are not facts whatsoever. All lives matter and police lives matter are not meant to be dismissive of BLM. As much as people butt hurt about those statements would like to believe otherwise, it's simple NOT the case. Nor are they intentionally confrontational... unlike BLM who actually are. Sit down. You literally don't know wtf you're talking about and I VERY highly doubt you've had any real life experience with violent and/or disruptive BLM crowds/protestors.


"Black on black crime". Or, you know, just crime. Kinda messed up to take regular crime and randomly attach racist overtones to it, isn't it?  BLM started as a response to police brutality against the black community. Why should it concentrate on anything else? Though I guess while we're at it we should protest against the John Hopkins hospital because they don't treat adults, right? Don't be a hypocrite. We've got enough of those on this forum. All lives matter? Then why don't the lives of the MCC kids matter when white kids come a knockin'? Oh, because it doesn't sit your views. Maybe you should sit down. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Try again.


Dr_Faustus said:


> The same logic can be applied in reverse as well. If you want to look down on any race or any sex to feel better about yourself, that can be considered the same right? Or does it only work in one way? In which case that is considered hypocritical at worst to a lawful double standard at best.
> 
> Also I would tread lightly on where to throw that second half of your argument to. I might not be a POC, but I sure as hell do come from Irish descent enough to know of the history of hell they had to go through just to be accepted here in this country. But I am sure they do not teach that kind of history often anymore do they? Don't go insulting others without learning more about where they come from first, and maybe your arguments might have some weight behind you. Must be easy to assume that everyone you argue with never had roots of prejudice before.


Who's looking down on who? The MCC students who wanted to study culture other than white culture? Which somehow translates into looking down on white culture? Despite white culture being predominantly taught over the past ~300 years? Gotcha. 

More Irish immigrants were indentured servants than any kind of slave, stateside. They also didn't suffer ~250 years of subhuman level discrimination and conditions, but please, go on about how your ancestors ran out of potatoes and sold their kids to protect their family assets. 

No one here is saying the Irish didn't have it bad as well, or any other POC, be it white skinned or not. The problem here is everyone wants to defend racism by invalidating the feelings and opinions of non white citizens because... why? Jealousy? Quid pro quo? Objection to change? Get over it. You can't pick and choose what's offensive to who and why, and the more you continue to invalidate the struggles people go through, the more we're going to see situations like the OP vid. Either get with the times and progress like the rest of the society, or get out of the way. Simple.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> It would be baseless if you didn't present yourself that way. It's also starting to sound like someone's getting a little butthurt over a friendly forum discussion. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, maybe you should check out another thread?
> 
> "Black on black crime". Or, you know, just crime. Kinda messed up to take regular crime and randomly attach racist overtones to it, isn't it?  BLM started as a response to police brutality against the black community. Why should it concentrate on anything else? Though I guess while we're at it we should protest against the John Hopkins hospital because they don't treat adults, right? Don't be a hypocrite. We've got enough of those on this forum. All lives matter? Then why don't the lives of the MCC kids matter when white kids come a knockin'? Oh, because it doesn't sit your views. Maybe you should sit down. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Try again.



LMFAO! And you want to talk about being butthurt? Omfg. Can't even make this shit up. Not to mention, you're CLEARLY out of the loop with BLM's own mission statements and reasons for existing. Might want to take a refresher course on that. Go back under your bridge. Hypocritical, ignorant, troll.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Says the "moderator" who low-key called me a fascist just a couple responses ago? Get over _yourself_ and this stupid hill you're dying on.


I didn’t call you any such names. I barely know who you are, to be honest.


SyphenFreht said:


> The point wasn't to whether you prohibit such symbolism and propaganda, or whether you were offended by any of this, what I said, otherwise, or not. It was the fact that you attempted to invalidate the offense that someone else took because you think the offense was unwarranted. In no part of your response did you address the reason why I quoted your words in particular; instead, you ignore the response in favor of packing circular arguments and tongue in cheek pot shots because you've run out of valid argument against the fact that, you evidently only think it's ok to be offended by the things you think is ok to be offended by.
> 
> That's hypocrisy. You can deny it all you want, you can misdirect it all you want with made up arguments and rogue implications, but at the end of the day, you invalidate these people because they haven't experienced the same atrocities you may have, therefore their experience is worthless.
> 
> ...


Oh, people can get offended by anything, you’re picking up the wrong side of the stick here. What I’m pointing out, in case it’s not obvious, is that there are no protections, legal or otherwise, against being offended - getting your jimmies rustled is your problem. There’s also the matter of judging what is and is not reasonable. I might find hamsters offensive, but that is not an average or normal stance to what the legal system calls “a reasonable person”. Being offended by the statement “police lives matter” is not reasonable, in any shape or form. An average, reasonable person is not offended by it. I also don’t think you quite understand what the word “hypocrisy” means. I would be hypocritical if I said that one group is entitled to feel offended whereas the other is not. They’re both entitled to feel offended by anything they fancy, and I am entitled to not care about that whatsoever - other people’s neuroticism is not my problem and I shouldn’t be burdened by it. I am interested in actions only, not by how people “feel”, your feelings are unimportant. All I see here is one person sitting peacefully with their laptop, which they own, getting accosted by strangers because they’re “offended” by a sticker on said laptop. That’s too bad, they’re still the aggressors here. As a quick side note, I literally just quoted myself stating that I don’t find communist symbolism offensive. If I’m not mistaken, that’s the very first reply I’ve posted in the thread you’re referencing. I don’t know why you’re doubling down here, I’m rather difficult to offend. I definitely don’t *respect* communists, but I will defend their right to display their symbols all the same, they have the same civil rights as I do. Defending the rights of one group and not the other would be quite hypocritical.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> In Tinker vs. Des Moines the U.S. Supreme Court categorically stated that, I quote:
> 
> If a student wants to display a sticker on their laptop, they are permitted to do so in a public school setting. Students are not allowed to disrupt proceedings, a sticker can hardly be considered a disruption. There is some disagreement and different rules in regards to permissible settings, or what constitutes a disruption, which is district-dependent, and you are correct in saying that schools cannot apply their rules in a discriminatory manner, but we’d have to delve into the nitty gritty of this particular school’s regulations to have this discussion. Broadly speaking, students do not waive their rights at the door.
> 
> ...



I was already aware of Tinker vs Des Moines, but as you stated, "*Broadly* speaking,..". We'd have to know more about the schools regulations like you said. I generally agree with you, but there's more to it all than just Tinker vs Des Moines. Here's a bit more:

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1208/dress-codes


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## Arecaidian Fox (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I didn’t call you any such names.





Foxi4 said:


> Lastly, and probably most importantly, the text presented on the sticker is not offensive or insensitive in any context, unless you wish to mount an argument that police lives specifically don’t matter based on their chosen occupation, which would expose a degree of bigotry on your part, but you’re welcome to do that if you’d like.


Fine, it was "bigot" if you want to be specific, or at least the implication of such. Which, firstly, since I didn't say it before, screw you for that. Second, I really fail to see how my original message warranted such a reply, wherein you feigned your own brand of moral high ground crap. I believe I even said I was willing to give the sticker student here the benefit of the doubt? Granted, my opening was a bit harsh and if _that_ is your issue, I'll even apologize if asked.


Foxi4 said:


> I barely know who you are, to be honest.


That much is obvious, nor do I really care. I'm sure we're both fine not knowing each other, if our interaction here is any indication.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I was already aware of Tinker vs Des Moines, but as you stated, "*Broadly* speaking,..". We'd have to know more about the schools regulations like you said. I generally agree with you, but there's more to it all than just Tinker vs Des Moines. Here's a bit more:
> 
> https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1208/dress-codes


Individual school districts have a high degree of authority in regards to regulations regarding decency, yes. We’re obviously talking about broad strokes here, the matter is more nuanced depending on the setting.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> _LMFAO! And you want to talk about being butthurt? Omfg. Can't even make this shit up. Not to mention, you're CLEARLY out of the loop with BLM's own mission statements and reasons for existing. Might want to take a refresher course on that. Go back under your bridge. Hypocritical, ignorant, troll._



*Enters a thread about racism, calls someone who stands for civil rights a troll.

Well now at least we know who's a racist around here. Now my baseless assumptions arent so baseless anymore, are they?



Foxi4 said:


> Oh, people can get offended by anything, you’re picking up the wrong side of the stick here. What I’m pointing out, in case it’s not obvious, is that there are no protections, legal or otherwise, against being offended - getting your jimmies rustled is your problem. There’s also the matter of judging what is and is not reasonable. I might find hamsters offensive, but that is not an average or normal stance to what the legal system calls “a reasonable person”. Being offended by the statement “police lives matter” is not reasonable, in any shape or form. An average, reasonable person is not offended by it. I also don’t think you quite understand what the word “hypocrisy” means. I would be hypocritical if I said that one group is entitled to feel offended whereas the other is not. They’re both entitled to feel offended by anything they fancy, and I am entitled to not care about that whatsoever - other people’s neuroticism is not my problem and I shouldn’t be burdened by it. I am interested in actions only, not by how people “feel”, your feelings are unimportant. All I see here is one person sitting peacefully with their laptop, which they own, getting accosted by strangers because they’re “offended” by a sticker on said laptop. That’s too bad, they’re still the aggressors here.



No one said there are protections  against people being offended. Again, you're purporting arguments that don't exist in this thread to avoid what you can't argue against. Yet again, you're picking and choosing what people are allowed to be offended by. It doesn't matter that you dont feel its reasonable, or even that you claim its legally unreasonable. The fact that you think it needs to be legally reasonable to be offensive shows how detached you are. At one time, slavery was legally reasonale in the states. Based on your logic alone, should no one have found it offensive because it wasnt legally reasonable to be so? What about community guidelines against lighting fireworks in neighborhoods with PTSD residents? Do you that legally unreasonable as well? No, i call you a hypocrite because you defend the negative connotations associated with communist propaganda but dismiss the same connotations associated with police brutality based propaganda, more than likely because you haven't experienced it yourself. You argued so defiantly in the other thread against people who embraced the idea of communism, saying at least once that they would understand if they went through it themselves, but now your purporting they same stance they held against you.

That's hypocrisy.

If all you see is a person trying to study on  their laptop, then you have no reasonable argument against someone who sees a hammer and sickle as a fashionable statement, or even a reasonable form of economic stability.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Fine, it was "bigot" if you want to be specific, or at least the implication of such. Which, firstly, since I didn't say it before, screw you for that. Second, I really fail to see how my original message warranted such a reply, wherein you feigned your own brand of moral high ground crap. I believe I even said I was willing to give the sticker student here the benefit of the doubt? Granted, my opening was a bit harsh and if _that_ is your issue, I'll even apologize if asked.
> 
> That much is obvious, nor do I really care. I'm sure we're both fine not knowing each other, if our interaction here is any indication.


I didn’t call you a bigot. What I said was that thinking anyone’s life is less valuable based on their choice of occupation is bigoted. If you hold such sentiments, that’s bigoted, bigoted meaning:


> *Bigoted*, _adjective_
> Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, *in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people* on the basis of their *membership of a particular group*.


I didn’t make an estimation on whether you hold such sentiments or not - only you can do that, I’m not inside your head. I also don’t need an apology, we’re exchanging ideas, which can get heated at times. This is a known quantity for all participants. Anyone afraid of getting burned shouldn’t be in the kitchen. Fortunately, I’m quite flameproof.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> *Enters a thread about racism, calls someone who stands for civil rights a troll.
> 
> Well now at least we know who's a racist around here. Now my baseless assumptions arent so baseless anymore, are they?



Your comments are *snip* I have to question if you're even serious or just being *snip*. I'm a racist because I called you a troll? You've GOT to be kidding me here. Seriously?


P.S. Baseless assumptions are still baseless.

Edit: Yup. laughing is all you have, when you have nothing better to say. You're a hypocrite and a liar. You stand for civil rights, but apparently only when those rights fit your own political narrative.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Your comments are just *snip* I have to question if you're even serious or just being a *snip* I'm a racist because I called you a troll? You've GOT to be kidding me here. Seriously?
> 
> 
> P.S. Baseless assumptions are still baseless.


Says the guy who continues to add nothing to the current discussion except personal attacks because, I assume, they've run out of relevant things to say?

If you're not intelligent enough to keep the conversation going, just say so. It's ok. Unlike what you present yourself to be, the rest of us seem to be somewhat inclusive of most types of people. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable in a KKK thread, surrounded by your own echo chamber?


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> _LMFAO! And you want to talk about being butthurt? Omfg. Can't even make this shit up. Not to mention, you're CLEARLY out of the loop with BLM's own mission statements and reasons for existing. Might want to take a refresher course on that. Go back under your bridge. Hypocritical, ignorant, troll._
> 
> *Enters a thread about racism, calls someone who stands for civil rights a troll.
> 
> ...


I am not picking and choosing what people are allowed to be offended by, and my stance is not hypocritical. They can be offended all they want on their side of the table. They do not get to attack another person based on their own fickle mental state. Your attempts at dragging the conversation into the weeds by bringing up 800 things completely unrelated to the sticker such as PTSD, slavery, communism and other assorted nonsense has been noted, and ignored. Let me reiterate. It doesn’t matter what the sticker says - if you get your jimmies rustled and assault another person, be it with physical force or intimidation, you are the bad guy. It doesn’t matter how you “felt” at the time. Not being able to control your mental state is not an exonerating circumstance, anyone throwing a hissy fit over a sticker to the point that they accost strangers has deeply rooted psychological problems and may want to seek therapy.


D34DL1N3R said:


> Edit: Yup. laughing is all you have, when you have nothing better to say. You're a hypocrite and a liar. You stand for civil rights, but apparently only when those rights fit your own political narrative.


“Rights for me, but not for thee” is a common theme in the modern civil rights movement. It’s funny, just a few decades ago everybody fought to stop people from being segregated to the back of the bus, now the same people are fighting tooth and nail to bring segregation back from the grave and designate a safe spot at the back of the bus. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad - students don’t want to have their preconceived notions challenged, which is the purpose of college. What they want is to splinter into bubbles where they can reinforce their beliefs, and those bubbles are fiercely antagonistic to each other. Sad state of affairs, to be sure.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I am not picking and choosing what people are allowed to be offended by, and my stance is not hypocritical. They can be offended all they want on their side of the table. They do not get to attack another person based on their fickle mental state. Your attempts at dragging the conversation into the weeds by bringing up 800 things completely unrelated to the sticker such as PTSD, slavery, communism and other assorted nonsense has been noted, and ignored. Let me reiterate. It doesn’t matter what the sticker says - if you get your jimmies rustled and assault another person, be it with physical force or intimidation, you are the bad guy. It doesn’t matter how you “felt” at the time. Not being able to control your mental state is not an exonerating circumstance, anyone throwing a hissy fit over a sticker to the point that they accost strangers has deeply rooted psychological problems and may want to seek therapy.



Except you're still misrepresenting what happened. You have two students, who took propaganda that they knew triggered people, to a place where those triggered people were allowed to be, a place created for them to learn in an environment free from discrimination, and got butthurt when these people got triggered. 

I understand your point of your triggers being your problem, but when these people are handling their triggers in an environment where they're allowed to do so, and then have that environment interrupted by people who are only there to incite aggression... now you're just victimizing. 

But call it what you wish. It doesn't concern you, it's not your problem, blah blah blah, but then here you are, arguing your opinion on it. You seem to have a habit of putting forth decent arguments, then backpedaling when you get backed into an intellectual corner, choosing to lean on "I don't care" defenses when your main argument fails. 

At the end of the day, you're sticking up for people who blatantly find fun in antagonizing people. That speaks more for your character than your failed attempts at disproving your hypocrisy.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Except you're still misrepresenting what happened. You have two students, who took propaganda that they knew triggered people, to a place where those triggered people were allowed to be, a place created for them to learn in an environment free from discrimination, and got butthurt when these people got triggered.
> 
> I understand your point of your triggers being your problem, but when these people are handling their triggers in an environment where they're allowed to do so, and then have that environment interrupted by people who are only there to incite aggression... now you're just victimizing.
> 
> ...


I haven’t back-pedalled once in this entire exchange, I never waived my right to have an opinion on the matter and I am unimpressed by your attempt at attacking my character. The environment they’re studying in is demonstrably not free from discrimination - the video clearly shows a person being discriminated against by fellow students. It was a pretty good ruse, too - the students lined up to prove the guy’s point.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Says the guy who continues to add nothing to the current discussion except personal attacks because, I assume, they've run out of relevant things to say?
> 
> If you're not intelligent enough to keep the conversation going, just say so. It's ok. Unlike what you present yourself to be, the rest of us seem to be somewhat inclusive of most types of people. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable in a KKK thread, surrounded by your own echo chamber?



You are absolutely clueless about me. I can't stand Trump, voted Biden, have gay & lesbian friends and immediate family, my best friend for many, many years is black, etc. Not that those things make me non-racist... but usually racist people don't vote Democrat and have close relationships with people from all walks of life, skin color, religion. political affiliation, whatever it may be. If I was racist, it's a FACT that I wouldn't EVER be BEST friends with a black man. The fact here is that you're just a trouble starting far left lib that want's to see hatred in everything that opposes your own opinion. And I will personally attack you when I see fit. It's kinda like stereotypes, ya know? People are only offended because there's truth to them. Seems you're offended that I don't bow down to your closet hatred and separation. You can claim to stand for all the civil rights you want, but let's face it, your entire train of thought says completely otherwise. You're a fake & the hypocrisy in your posts is mind boggling.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I haven’t back-pedalled once in this entire exchange, I never waived my right to have an opinion on the matter and I am unimpressed by your attempt at attacking my character. The environment they’re studying in is demonstrably not free from discrimination - the video clearly shows a person being discriminated against by fellow students. It was a pretty good ruse, too - the students lined up to prove the guy’s point.



I never attacked your character. I defined it based on how you argue and what ideologies you stand behind. If you don't want to be misrepresented, don't represent yourself that way.   You know, like the two white students did. Going to a place where, yet again, they knew they'd cause trouble.   Well damn. Might as well take down the whole MCC then, because racists can't stop being racist then, right? What was, the point again? That poor little white students can't go around antagonizing POC without retaliation? Well, in that case, you'd be right. For once in this thread at least. Now if only other POC could just get used to the fact that white people are allowed to do whatever they want, however they want, then no one would ever be racist again. If only we'd thought about this sooner


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You are absolutely clueless about me. I can't stand Trump, voted Biden, have gay & lesbian friends and immediate family, my best friend for many, many years is black, etc. Not that those things make me non-racist... but usually racist people don't vote Democrat and have close relationships with people from all walks of life, skin color, religion. political affiliation, whatever it may be. If I was racist, it's a FACT that I wouldn't EVER be BEST friends with a black man. The fact here is that you're just a trouble starting far left lib that want's to see hatred in everything that opposes your own opinion. And I will personally attack you when I see fit. It's kinda like stereotypes, ya know? People are only offended because there's truth to them. Seems you're offended that I don't bow down to your closet hatred and separation. You can claim to stand for all the civil rights you want, but let's face it, your entire train of thought says completely otherwise. You're a fake & the hypocrisy in your posts is mind boggling.


I don’t think that playing Civil Rights Bingo to show other people where exactly everybody sits on the Pyramid of Victimhood is particularly productive. A bigger, broader point to make is what the civil rights movement actually was. Civil rights leaders didn’t fight for “safe spaces” for people to segregate in - they fought to *desegregate*, and they’ve succeeded. We don’t need “safe spaces”, every “space” is supposed to be “safe”, that was the whole damn point of the struggle. If they’re not “safe enough” then maybe, just maybe, what people are looking for is to be sheltered, and that’s not the function of college, or any public “space”. If people want to be sheltered, they should consider turning Amish or something - here in the real world they’re going to encounter things they don’t necessarily like or agree with, and it is encumbent on grown adults to be able to deal with that accordingly without waterworks.


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## subcon959 (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> anyone throwing a hissy fit over a sticker to the point that they accost strangers has deeply rooted psychological problems


I'm not condoning the behaviour at all (in fact my immediate reaction was probably similar to yours), but it seems to me you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head regarding the deeply rooted visceral response to perceived racial injustice. I'm not white or black, but I can attest to feeling the weight of generations of racism somehow being embedded in my bones. I wouldn't ever react how they did in this video, or think it was acceptable to do so, but I can sympathise to some extent.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> I never attacked your character. I defined it based on how you argue and what ideologies you stand behind. If you don't want to be misrepresented, don't represent yourself that way.   You know, like the two white students did. Going to a place where, yet again, they knew they'd cause trouble.   Well damn. Might as well take down the whole MCC then, because racists can't stop being racist then, right? What was, the point again? That poor little white students can't go around antagonizing POC without retaliation? Well, in that case, you'd be right. For once in this thread at least. Now if only other POC could just get used to the fact that white people are allowed to do whatever they want, however they want, then no one would ever be racist again. If only we'd thought about this sooner


1) How do you know they were racist?
2) Police Lives Matter includes the lives of black police officers. Are they racist too?
3) People are allowed to do whatever they want, wherever they want, regardless of their skin colour, as long as it is legal. That was the whole point of the civil rights movement - desegregating and not discriminating based on skin colour. You mention the guy’s skin colour a lot - would you be equally upset if he was black? Is it the sticker, or his skin, that you have a problem with in this setting?


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You are absolutely clueless about me. I can't stand Trump, voted Biden, have gay & lesbian friends and immediate family, my best friend for many, many years is black, etc. Not that those things make me non-racist... but usually racist people don't vote Democrat and have close relationships with people from all walks of life, skin color, religion. political affiliation, whatever it may be. If I was racist, it's a FACT that I wouldn't EVER be BEST friends with a black man. The fact here is that you're just a trouble starting far left lib that want's to see hatred in everything that opposes your own opinion. And I will personally attack you when I see fit. It's kinda like stereotypes, ya know? People are only offended because there's truth to them. Seems you're offended that I don't bow down to your closet hatred and separation. You can claim to stand for all the civil rights you want, but let's face it, your entire train of thought says completely otherwise. You're a fake & the hypocrisy in your posts is mind boggling.



I don't care about you. I care enough about how you present yourself in this thread to reply based on how you argue. "... usually racist people don't vote Democrat..." Usually, non racists don't have to defend their non racism. Chances are, if you have to say you're not racist by including your relationships with POC, you're probably a little racist, and only associate with POC because you're ashamed of your ridiculous, backward views. But please, try to convince me of your all inclusiveness with more examples of all the black people you roll with. Maybe pictures? Oh, get a picture of you fist bumping a black guy. That'll be dope, son.

Attack away then. When you start getting your comments erased because you'd rather focus on personally attacking someone over adding to the conversation, you have no to blame but yours-... No, in all likelihood you'll blame the fascist moderators who want to dismantle free speech. Your arguments would be cute if they weren't so predictable. 

You're right. I have so much hatred. I shouldn't hate racists or people who mimic racist ideals, I should join hands with them and sing kumbaya.

I'm curious to know what my platform is, if I'm holding hatred and separation. Who am I trying to separate? Who am I trying to attack? Who am I standing up for? Please, tell me about myself. I'm genuinely curious.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> I'm not condoning the behaviour at all (in fact my immediate reaction was probably similar to yours), but it seems to me you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head regarding the deeply rooted visceral response to perceived racial injustice. I'm not white or black, but I can attest to feeling the weight of generations of racism somehow being embedded in my bones. I wouldn't ever react how they did in this video, or think it was acceptable to do so, but I can sympathise to some extent.


That’s exactly the difference. You can feel a certain way about something, and you can even engage in a discussion about how you feel if your interlocutor welcomes such an exchange. You don’t get to attack them, a boundary you seem to grasp, and something that used to be the status quo before feelings took center stage. Empathy is good, blind rage is not. I can empathise with someone having a visceral reaction to stimuli, I can’t empathise with someone using aggression and intimidation in order to eject a person from an area they’re entitled to be in when they’re doing absolutely nothing that’s disruptive and simply mind their own business. Boundaries are important.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> 1) How do you know they were racist?
> 2) Police Lives Matter includes the lives of black police officers. Are they racist?
> 3) People are allowed to do whatever they want, wherever they want, regardless of their skin colour, as long as it is legal. That was the whole point of the civil rights movement - desegregating and not discriminating based on skin colour. You mention the guy’s skin colour a lot - would you be equally upset if he was black? Is it the sticker, or his skin, that you have a problem with in this setting?


1. I don't. I made assumptions and conjecture based on their actions. If they are proven not racist, I'll be the first in line to admit I was wrong and apologize.

How do you know they are not racist, and were not there to incite aggression?

2. Personally? I don't know. Nor have I made the statement that all cops are racist. Or that any of them are racist. My argument is that the POC in this situation are offended by the racist connotations that have been associated with the Blue Lives Matter banner.

Should the institution itself be proven to have either been built upon racist intent, or influenced by it in its current state, would you be willing to change your view?

3. You're absolutely right. And just as the white students were free to incite and engage, the students of color were free to harass (to fit both our sides of this perspective). At no point was anyone physically assaulted or threatened.  We've already agreed (maybe not you in particular) in an earlier comment that things escalated.

You seem to misunderstand the point of the MCC. There's no segregation going on. It's free for white people to enter. It was designed to embrace all cultures, not specifically just white peoples'(highlighted by the "center" comments) . Maybe the one girl of color went a little overboard, but when triggered by agitators, well... at least it's legal, right?

I mention his skin color because it's relevant to the situation, and I don't know his name (also irrelevant. I don't know anyone else's names either, for the record). If the roles were reversed? It depends. If white people had been subjected to the same treatment POC have the past ~300 years, everything from discrimination, to systemic racism, to slavery, go on and so on, then yes, I'd be equally upset. My concern isn't skin deep, it's over the ethical treatment people have against each other based on deep rooted, abstract hatred.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> 1. I don't. I made assumptions and conjecture based on their actions. If they are proven not racist, I'll be the first in line to admit I was wrong and apologize.
> 
> How do you know they are not racist, and were not there to incite aggression?
> 
> ...


If you are making assumptions based on their actions, and those assumptions are that these kids are racist, they must’ve performed some kind of action that you consider racist in nature. If they have, which action was it?

I can safely assume that they are not racist because I have no reason to assume that they are - I haven’t seen any evidence of racism. In the absence of evidence pointing to guilt, I operate on the presumption of innocence, which is reasonable.

I can see that the people in the video are getting offended. I don’t care that they’re offended, we’ve been over this. Their feelings are not evidence of any wrong-doing on the part of the kid, it’s evidence of poor impulse control.

The institution of “the police” wasn’t built with the express intention of persecuting minorities - it was built with the intention of enforcing the law. The law was, at one point, racist, and by extension, enforcing it was also racist. This is no longer the case. I wouldn’t be willing to change my stance on the police based on past events because I live in the present. As much as I would like to be the next incarnation of Doctor Who, I’m afraid that I’m just a mere human.

You are never free to harass another person. In fact, that’s illegal.

The MCC clearly doesn’t embrace everyone, it’s on tape. You are right - things sure did escalate. As a side note, the word “assault” doesn’t entail physical contact - that’s “battery”. Badgering someone in a threatening manner in order to force them to act a certain way or do something specific, for instance leave a public space, can constitute assault. I’m not a judge, if the kid wants to sue then he’s welcome to do so, I’d consider that overreacting since little harm was done, if any. I’m not the “emotional distress” kind of guy.

Thank you for confirming that his skin colour plays a factor in your judgement of the events in the video. I’m afraid that the wrongs committed 300 years ago have no bearing on the present and the kid is in no way guilty of any of them. He’s just a guy with a sticker, in the present. If you take a step back and think about this with a cool head, you *might* be able to see that you are putting a whole lot of labels on the guy based on two things - “white police supporter = racist slaver” is not a reasonable train of thought.

EDIT: As a complete aside, am I the only one here who raises an eyebrow at the term “people of colour”? How is that anything other than calling someone “coloured” with extra steps? It’s so bizarre to me, you got rid of a slur just to replace it with another segregating term. The obvious term to use is just “people”, I don’t see how their complexion is relevant.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If you are making assumptions based on their actions, and those asdumptions are that these kids are racist, they must’ve performed some kind of action that you consider racist in nature. If they have, which action was it?
> 
> I can safely assume that they are not racist because I have no reason to assume that they are - I haven’t seen any evidence of racism. In the absence of evidence pointing to guilt, I operate on the presumption of innocence, which is reasonable.
> 
> ...


The act of not at least acknowledging the offense they presented, regardless of intent, in a place where that offense is apparent, and instead arguing over the validity of their stance in regards to the stance of the POC in their own space, given to them by the ASU, shows a complete disregard for the struggles they went through to be awarded that space, even after being told of said struggles. That complete disregard at least is in line with racist views, in my book.

That's a noble thing to uphold, and I wish more people held that view. Unfortunately, when you see the video for what is being presented, it seems that the students are there only to incite. If you wish to prove their innocence, please do. Otherwise, the only way to continue assuming their innocence is to acknowledge their blatant ignorance, which seems a little far fetched.

Maybe. Or maybe it was an appropriate response to a premeditated incite to aggression. Without multiple view points, you can only base conjecture on what's being shown. To deny any of the facts to further your own point is dismissive.

Again, you've nitpicked my argument to bolster your point. I'll ask again. Should you find that the current police institution is in any way influenced by racist views and activities, would you still hold the same view?

Antagonizing is harassment. Utilizing this argument, the two white students broke the law first.

The MCC doesn't embrace racist antagonizers, which is what the two white students are portraying themselves as. If they don't want to be seen that way, they shouldn't portray themselves that way.

Antagonizing someone by bringing triggering propaganda into a well known triggered space to get them to act a certain way is assault.

Of course skin colour plays a factor. This wouldn't be an issue if every person involved was the same color. I feel like you're trying to insinuate something. It'd be easier to just say it.

No one is saying what happened 300 years ago is playing a part now. I'm not even saying that police brutality is playing a part. I'm saying that two white students showed up to a place they knew they could trigger POC, triggered them, and then got butthurt when they got called out. The fact that any of this conversation gravitated from that came from people who evidently needed examples as to why these kinds of things are bad.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> I don't care about you. I care enough about how you present yourself in this thread to reply based on how you argue. "... usually racist people don't vote Democrat..." Usually, non racists don't have to defend their non racism. Chances are, if you have to say you're not racist by including your relationships with POC, you're probably a little racist, and only associate with POC because you're ashamed of your ridiculous, backward views. But please, try to convince me of your all inclusiveness with more examples of all the black people you roll with. Maybe pictures? Oh, get a picture of you fist bumping a black guy. That'll be dope, son.
> 
> Attack away then. When you start getting your comments erased because you'd rather focus on personally attacking someone over adding to the conversation, you have no to blame but yours-... No, in all likelihood you'll blame the fascist moderators who want to dismantle free speech. Your arguments would be cute if they weren't so predictable.
> 
> ...



"Usually, non racists don't have to defend their non racism."

Usually, I'm not being called a racist from a complete stranger for no reason other than their own blind assumptions. And guess who the one constantly playing the race card in this conversation is? Hmmmmm. You want to talk about hypocrisy yet, you are the one being the most hypocritical. Like I said. Closet hatred and separation/segregation is all you're spreading. Making all the references about the skin color as was already pointed out to you by someone else. You're the only only in this conversation that IS actually being racist.

The second part of your waste of time post sounds like your feelings are hurt. Did someone call you names? Boo-effing hoo. Cry me a river. But when a sticker rattles you to the bone... I guess. Funny thing about the moderators though? I'll let you in on a secret. Because they have to do their job, it does not equate to them either agreeing or disagreeing with anyones posts that are removed.

Mimic racist ideals? You're the one calling for segregation and pulling all the race cards around here. Clap clap. I mean. 

You're asking ME what your own platform is? You're asking me who you're attacking and standing up for? Is there seriously a need for me to go back and quote everything you've said? And if I did, what purpose would it serve? You would just find some way to try disputing it all anyway. It's not like if I took the time to do that you are suddenly going to say "Oh! I see now! You were right!" So exactly what purpose did your questions serve? What were you planning to use the answers for? Why the bad faith requests? Ohhhhhhhhh... so you could try using it against me with your already baseless and mind-numbingly stupid racist accusations that all started because I didn't fall in line with your closet hatred, racism and hypocrisy.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 13, 2021)

I'm playing the race card, in a discussion, about race. You do understand what race and racism is, right? Like, there's no way you can be this oblivious. Or I guess maybe you can. God forbid I make a blind assumption solely on your method of argument. You do realize what constitutes a blind assumption, right? You have the entirety of the internet at your fingertips, and yet you still choose to be unintelligent in your arguments. At least you're fun.

Idk bro, you're the one getting pretty adamant with personal attacks and letting your emotion bleed into your responses. Do we have a therapy section here? Maybe you should start one. Seems to me like you're projecting some of this "closet racism and hatred" I've been hearing about. At least I haven't had to back up my stance with poorly proven examples of how I sometimes associate with POC. You must be a paragon to your community.

I'm being hypocritical. I'm attacking. I'm... asking for segregation (I wish I could heart that statement alone. I might make that my tag). But then instead of proving your own accusations, you make alternating arguments and then dissuade it, absolving you of any responsibility of backing those claims up. No, I asked the question because, for someone who accuses me of making baseless claims, you sure are making some yourself. I guess I could call you a hypocrite, but actually it'd be more fun to say that you're thinking you're arguing with me on my level, using my own logic against me, but you can't even do that properly, cuuuuuz...

"I can't be racist, *you're* racist!"

I love arguing with children. It's fun to watch them squirm as they blatantly refuse to argue at any higher of an intellectual level. Tell you what. Hmu with something that's actually worth arguing about, maybe I'll entertain you some more. Otherwise, check your meds, put on some tea, play some ambient music, go back to sewing your hood for the next KKK rally, okay pumpkin? It's adult swim for the rest of us, time for angry kids to hit the hay.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 13, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> The act of not at least acknowledging the offense they presented, regardless of intent, in a place where that offense is apparent, and instead arguing over the validity of their stance in regards to the stance of the POC in their own space, given to them by the ASU, shows a complete disregard for the struggles they went through to be awarded that space, even after being told of said struggles. That complete disregard at least is in line with racist views, in my book.
> 
> That's a noble thing to uphold, and I wish more people held that view. Unfortunately, when you see the video for what is being presented, it seems that the students are there only to incite. If you wish to prove their innocence, please do. Otherwise, the only way to continue assuming their innocence is to acknowledge their blatant ignorance, which seems a little far fetched.
> 
> ...


1. Why should he acknowledge any offense at all? He’s just as entitled to be there as any other student. If the students were awarded this “space” by the ASU because a bunch of white people enslaved a bunch of black people 300 years ago then the ASU is administered by chipmunks.

2. I don’t have to prove their innocence. It is a given until you can prove their guilt, that burden is on you. Even if they are there to troll people into giving them an emotional reaction (and succeeding) to demonstrate that the student body is not tolerant of certain viewpoints, not only they’re entitled to do that, they’re also in the right. If the situation was reversed and it was some kind of “white kid sorority” with two black kids messing around with a BLM sticker, you’d be clapping with every appendage including your ears.

3. We see the entire encounter. I don’t see any incitement of violence, I see a guy sitting there with his laptop minding his own business and a some crybabies getting bent out of shape because they don’t like his sticker.

4. I don’t see any conclusive evidence of racial bias in policing, police presence and police interactions by race are directly proportional to the levels of criminality by race. The whole matter is also thoroughly uninteresting to me.

5. Harassment is a persistent and repetitive pattern of behaviour aimed at a specific person or group with the intention to cause distress and in disregard of the wishes of said person or group. The guy is literally just sitting there, you have no evidence that him or his friend have ever shown up at that spot before and no evidence that they were ever asked not to display such messaging by anyone with any degree of authority. If anything, they’re being harassed, by two other people, repeatedly, until they have to leave. In fact, another student even steps in to defend their right to be there, but he’s no match for the ladies going Full Karen. Thoroughly embarrassing.

6. The MCC embraces pearls very tightly, because that’s next level clutching. You are once again ascribing racist intent based on someone being white and supporting the police. You’ve literally invented an imaginary crime to excuse your own cognitive dissonance.

7. “Triggering propaganda” and “triggered place” is pretty funny terminology, but we’re not in kindergarten. Grow up. The kid didn’t assault anyone, he was passively sitting there and doing absolutely nothing until he was accosted by babies.

8. I’m not insinuating anything, you’re the one judging people by the colour of their skin. There’s a term for that.

9. You *just* said that it does, and that it was the reason behind awarding the students this baby cot. You’ve also rambled for the last couple of posts that the sticker is triggering because the police is, supposedly, a racist institution. Let’s say that you’re right about their intentions - let’s say that the two students showed up to see just how embracing this “safe space” was, and to catch it on video. If that’s the case, they have succeeded in their task and made the people accosting them look like giant crybabies. Good on them for challenging this ridiculous institution that operates on the false premise of tolerance when it only tolerates one specific point of view. Commendable and effective trolling, which is evidenced by the fact that we’re talking about this event at all.


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## Xzi (Oct 13, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Was not my experience with the police officers I know and work with. (no, I'm not a cop. State govt. job.) But that's here where I live, which isn't everywhere so I dunno maybe in Iowa or Oregon they didn't wear them on the job.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yeah, that might be the case where you are, but it's anecdotal.  There's no way 62% of officer deaths last year would've come from COVID if the majority were wearing masks whenever they interacted with the public.



D34DL1N3R said:


> For fucks sake. THEIR OWN PAGE stated that they are a political movement. Yet here someone is arguing about what BLM is or is not.


Read again.  I said the STATEMENT "black lives matter" is not inherently political.  As a STATEMENT, not as an ORGANIZATION.  Of course the organization is politically involved and politically active, its purpose is advocating positive change via local and federal government.  Considering the alternative, I'd think you'd be okay with that.



D34DL1N3R said:


> All lives matter and police lives matter are not meant to be dismissive of BLM. As much as people butt hurt about those statements would like to believe otherwise, it's simple NOT the case. Nor are they intentionally confrontational... unlike BLM who actually are. Sit down. You literally don't know wtf you're talking about and I VERY highly doubt you've had any real life experience with violent and/or disruptive BLM crowds/protestors.


"SIT DOWN AND STFU!"  Not exactly a compelling argument for how you're trying to avoid provocation and confrontation.  If you're viewing "black lives matter" or BLM as an attack on you personally from the outset, of course you're going to try to find a slogan which counters or dismisses them.  That's a fundamental misunderstanding of their purpose, however, unless you happen to be a crooked, racist cop.


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## impeeza (Oct 13, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> People who find everything offensive make this world a horrible place


  the result of <<anybody deserve a trophy for nothing>>


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 13, 2021)

impeeza said:


> the result of <<anybody deserve a trophy for nothing>>



Video Unavailable


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## impeeza (Oct 14, 2021)

what a shame, let me try another source

Found it on youtube:



and


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## Benja81 (Oct 14, 2021)

All lives matter/blue lives matter is petty white people who don't understand or accept that POC are being abused and killed everyday. By saying those things (and its unbelievably obvious you are only saying that because of BLM not because you fucking care) what you are really saying is that black lives don't matter.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 14, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> All lives matter/blue lives matter is petty white people who don't understand or accept that POC are being abused and killed everyday. By saying those things (and its unbelievably obvious you are only saying that because of BLM not because you fucking care) what you are really saying is that black lives don't matter.


The problem is the Black Lives Matter movement has problems, not the people
Not all Africian Americans disagree with blue lives matter


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## Benja81 (Oct 14, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> The problem is the Black Lives Matter movement has problems, not the people
> Not all Africian Americans disagree with blue lives matter


I'll admit at first did not see the harm in "all lives matter." But think about it, did you ever hear about that crap before BLM came about? Here we have a group of human beings screaming at us for help saying we are being abused and mistreated, and then instead of supporting them and believing them we are correcting their statement and then doing fuck all to help. I could see why it pisses them off. And plus if someone loves the police so much to start a movement for them, they should make up their own catch phrase. But the reason for blue lives matter is not to support police, its to belittle and oppose the black lives matter movement. They made that obvious with the name choice. Plus if racist cops didn't fuck w/ POC so much, they wouldn't have had to start the movement in the first place. Yes I know perfectly well all cops are not bad, but the bad ones did more than enough damage for the lot and there is an old saying that all it takes for evil to endure is good people/good cops doing nothing. And while I don't know that they "did nothing" the good ones evidently did not do nearly enough to make a difference according to POC.


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## Velorian (Oct 14, 2021)

All hospital visits matter! Sorry buddy I know you bleeding out and might die any minute, but I broke my finger and got here first.


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## Velorian (Oct 14, 2021)

All knife wounds matter! You were stabbed in the heart?!....Ahh geee wizz I cut my finger chopping veggies....we equal bro...All knife wounds matter!


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## notimp (Oct 14, 2021)

Velorian said:


> All knife wounds matter! You were stabbed in the heart?!....Ahh geee wizz I cut my finger chopping veggies....we equal bro...All knife wounds matter!


Some knife wounds are more equal than others, you mean? 

(Also: nice!  )


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## Benja81 (Oct 14, 2021)

notimp said:


> Some knife wounds are more equal than others, you mean?
> 
> (Also: nice!  )


All knife wounds are serrated equally.


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## Zajumino (Oct 14, 2021)

I came here to say that I like stickers.


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## subcon959 (Oct 14, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> EDIT: As a complete aside, am I the only one here who raises an eyebrow at the term “people of colour”? How is that anything other than calling someone “coloured” with extra steps? It’s so bizarre to me, you got rid of a slur just to replace it with another segregating term. The obvious term to use is just “people”, I don’t see how their complexion is relevant.


I just assumed it was a regional thing so tried to ignore it, but yeah I find that term pretty meh. I'd rather not have the distinction at all, but again, I'm for actual equality whereas a lot of people seem to want special treatment.


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## Dr_Faustus (Oct 14, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Who's looking down on who? The MCC students who wanted to study culture other than white culture? Which somehow translates into looking down on white culture? Despite white culture being predominantly taught over the past ~300 years? Gotcha.
> 
> More Irish immigrants were indentured servants than any kind of slave, stateside. They also didn't suffer ~250 years of subhuman level discrimination and conditions, but please, go on about how your ancestors ran out of potatoes and sold their kids to protect their family assets.
> 
> No one here is saying the Irish didn't have it bad as well, or any other POC, be it white skinned or not. The problem here is everyone wants to defend racism by invalidating the feelings and opinions of non white citizens because... why? Jealousy? Quid pro quo? Objection to change? Get over it. You can't pick and choose what's offensive to who and why, and the more you continue to invalidate the struggles people go through, the more we're going to see situations like the OP vid. Either get with the times and progress like the rest of the society, or get out of the way. Simple.


Just ignore the whole Know-Nothing movement and the mob torching/killing of Irish and other foreigners because the only races that deserves any kind of historical attention and apology are the ones who are easily identifiable by the colour of their skin right?

I am not trying to defend racism, but if you or anyone thinks that racism is going to be somehow eradicated in our or in any lifetime its clearly never going to be the case. The human race is too much at comfort to sort things in orders mentally to make things easier for themselves. This includes the ordering of people by race, sex and value. Its not at all a thing I like or support, but its something that exists and will continue to exist as the foundation of our society is built on this concept. Even if you eliminated the concept of racism in its existing form you can still order people in groups of class and value, which is just as bad at the end of the day. You will need to rework society as a concept from the ground up, which will never happen in any way.


What I am trying to say is that rather than trying to change the world in impossible ways we can just learn to ignore the small things that should not be causing such outrage and instead just focus on the things that remind us that we are all on the same goddamn boat at the end of the day. We are all dealing with shit, struggling with things in our life and all have our problems. If I had the free time to give two shits about something so non existent as a sticker somehow offending me then that shows just how absolutely removed from reality I am to care about such a first world problem. By the way, meanwhile there are still countries out there where if you are an independent woman or gay you get stoned to death or get taken by the secret police. But lets not focus too hard on the problems in the world and instead focus on how having a sticker supporting the police is the equivalent of supporting racial genocide.



Benja81 said:


> I'll admit at first did not see the harm in "all lives matter." But think about it, did you ever hear about that crap before BLM came about? Here we have a group of human beings screaming at us for help saying we are being abused and mistreated, and then instead of supporting them and believing them we are correcting their statement and then doing fuck all to help. I could see why it pisses them off. And plus if someone loves the police so much to start a movement for them, they should make up their own catch phrase. *But the reason for blue lives matter is not to support police, its to belittle and oppose the black lives matter movement. *They made that obvious with the name choice. Plus if racist cops didn't fuck w/ POC so much, they wouldn't have had to start the movement in the first place. Yes I know perfectly well all cops are not bad, but the bad ones did more than enough damage for the lot and there is an old saying that all it takes for evil to endure is good people/good cops doing nothing. And while I don't know that they "did nothing" the good ones evidently did not do nearly enough to make a difference according to POC.


Honestly I feel this is more of a person to person view or opinion of its purpose. Some see it as that while some see it as a response to all Police being classified as racist automatons without any humanity or life outside of the badge. People forget that not all police are bad people but in the same way a racist person can try to convince you that all POC's are bad, the alternate side is trying to do the very same with saying that all Police are bad. That they do not deserve respect or humanity, which is just as inhuman to say at the end of the day. Every goddamn person matters, if someone dies at the hands of another or just of a circumstance, do we care for them less because of what they represent or should we still care for them regardless because they were at the end of the day a human being that was trying to live their life for themselves and probably their family. When we start stripping that away you are no better than the racists honestly.


To be better people you have to abandon the tools of the past. It's easy to group people in bad and good ways, its hard to actually realise that not everyone is so easily categorized as good or bad. That is the truth of the situation, there is no true ultimate good or evil here, just people trying to live lives and some trying to take advantage of that in the wrong way. We should not blanket term anyone from those outliers. Otherwise it does not make you look any different than the wrongful profilers that have been doing this for all of human history.  Blame the person(s) responsible, not the group, not the people. That is how things change for the better for everyone. Accountability where it matters, and not spread onto everyone.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 14, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> 1. Why should he acknowledge any offense at all? He’s just as entitled to be there as any other student. If the students were awarded this “space” by the ASU because a bunch of white people enslaved a bunch of black people 300 years ago then the ASU is administered by chipmunks.
> 
> Because if he was a decent person who truly was only there to study, then he would have been ignorant to the offense POC took from his sticker. If he was truly ignorant and not just there to cause a ruckus, he would've been at least confused and curious, rather than immediately defensive and combative. If he was a decent person, he would not have also allowed his temper to escalate (yes, I am implying that the one POC escalated as well and may not have been a decent person. I am not opposed to understanding that people on both sides can be cruel and antagonistic)
> 
> ...


----------



## SyphenFreht (Oct 14, 2021)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Just ignore the whole Know-Nothing movement and the mob torching/killing of Irish and other foreigners because the only races that deserves any kind of historical attention and apology are the ones who are easily identifiable by the colour of their skin right?
> 
> I am not trying to defend racism, but if you or anyone thinks that racism is going to be somehow eradicated in our or in any lifetime its clearly never going to be the case. The human race is too much at comfort to sort things in orders mentally to make things easier for themselves. This includes the ordering of people by race, sex and value. Its not at all a thing I like or support, but its something that exists and will continue to exist as the foundation of our society is built on this concept. Even if you eliminated the concept of racism in its existing form you can still order people in groups of class and value, which is just as bad at the end of the day. You will need to rework society as a concept from the ground up, which will never happen in any way.
> 
> ...



No one's ignoring it, but please tell me how it's relevant to this particular thread. Yes, I might have gone off on a tangent here and there, but it's been to show how current mentality on both sides have evolved and continued from earlier mentality. I, in particular, have yet to see anything in the way of current anti-Irish stances anywhere in the states, and while I'm not saying that it's not as important, it's certainly not as rampant as anti-POC stances. If you provide some current examples of, I'd be glad to go hand in hand with you to be up in arms over it. If anything, you and I should be on the same side, considering the Irish were persecuted against based on the same aesthetic ideal as POC. No one should be discriminated upon because of how they look, white, black, brown, green, or otherwise. That's why every instance of such should be scrutinized. Yes,  I said "every", regardless of which race is the aggressor. Yes, every race has the opportunity of being the aggressor. 

I doubt anyone here is naive enough to believe racism will eventually end, if not replaced by some other cruelty, but the answer isn't to keep pushing that "everyone is equal". There seems to be this new age mentality that if we just equalize everyone we could move forward. That idea looks great on paper, just like communism, but when applied to the real world it, just like communism, fails at the hands of people who misuse it. 

We are not created equal. 

I don't care what religion or politics say, we are not created equal. 

Genetic markers and DNA individualize every person from inception. Through nature, through nurture, people grow up to become insanely different from one another. Some are overweight, some are under. Some are tall, some are short. Some have defects and limitations, others are smarter. Background makes people different. Some people are born into poverty, some are born never having to worry about money. Some are born into societies that are well built and taken care, some are discarded as soon as they are born. 

The answer is not to simply "wash away" our individualism in favor of equality. That erases the history and struggles of every culture, white or otherwise, and sets the tone for complacency and unified idealism, something you anti communists should be adamantly against. No, if we truly want to be "equal" to one another, we need to be open minded in terms of empathy and understanding, not defensive and confrontational. Don't play this game where we decencitize hardships in favor of ease; it makes us easier to control. Look at Christianity, for a brief moment. Look at how they structure their "equality" between members, and then look at how easily swayed they can be to committing atrocities, even something as blazé(/s) as homophobia. No, we need to understand these struggles because it's on the next generation to keep society moving forward, and it's on the previous generation to help teach the newer generations not to make the same mistakes.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 14, 2021)

Weird way to respond, but fair enough @SyphenFreht. First of all, none of this has anything to do with decency. The only thing that's indecent in this entire shabam is accosting strangers who are just sitting in what appears to be a study hall and minding their own business. Nobody is forced to "acknowledge" any wrongs that have befallen other groups of people in the past on a whim - if you expect others to kowtow before you because of some past injustice that they personally had nothing to do with, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. They're not responsible for any of those wrongs, and they're not obligated to entertain any ridiculous requests - they're not house pets.

I don't see anything "underhanded" going on - the sticker looks normal to me, the same as any other bumper sticker for any other cause, there's nothing absurd or particularly "baity" about it. The Karens are reacting the way they are because they've been conditioned to think that in this magical cot they can use their supposed victimhood as leverage in order to impose their will on others - they were taught to be bullies, so they're bullying the guy. You are right in saying that they probably wouldn't act like that in different circumstances, like outside of the school, but you're wrong about why that's the case. They wouldn't do that outside of the school because the possibility of getting punched in the mouth for accosting a stranger is very real. Quality bait, the fishies were all too happy to chow on.

I must've had a thousand conversations about policing, I don't think another one is going to be more productive than the other ones - I've heard it all, and there's always a reasonable explanation besides "oh, it's systemic racism". Police presence is, once again, proportional to the level of criminality in a given area. The higher the police presence the more encounters with the police, and the more encounters you have the higher the number of ones that end in violence. That's not racism, that's statistics. There's a million reasons why that's the case, both in the past and in the present, and a million of ways matters could be addressed, but as you've mentioned, this topic goes beyond the scope of the thread.

Harassment is, once again, an action. Sitting idly is not an action, that's inaction. You might consider your rebuttal strong, but it's actually laughable, and it wouldn't stand in any court of law - the students are not in anybody's face, they're not forcing anyone to interact with them, they're just "there", and they're the ones being approached by strangers. The active party here is the flock of Karens, there's no doubt about that.

This kind of wishy-washy talk about who's right and who's wrong reminds me of a stupid image macro in which two people are standing on opposite sides of a symbol painted on the ground. One guy says that it's a 6, the other that it's a 9, and the moral is supposed to be that the answer depends on your point of view. No, it doesn't - in real life there's a third guy, the person who actually painted the symbol, and that person had something specific in mind when they painted it. It's not either or, it's one or the other. One side is correct, the other is wrong.

People are not entitled to tell others what they can or cannot display in a public setting as long as it's within the confines of the law (this normally covers obscenity and so on). It doesn't matter if you think it's "propaganda" or not, and it doesn't matter if it's "triggering" to you. If you don't like it, you can look the other way. You are not in a position of authority that would allow you to tell anyone to do anything in public. If you think something illegal is taking place, you can call the police, or a wahmbulance, whichever you think is more appropriate.

Your argument that "if the two Karens were discriminating against the students, then that means the two students were discriminating against the Karens" is fallacious. Only one party is making demands of the other and only one party discriminates against the other based on political position. The two students aren't doing anything and they're not engaging with anyone. They're not restricting anyone's access to the space and they're not interrupting anyone's work - they're the ones being interrupted, by a wild flock of Karens. If said Karens are unable to control their own mental state because they saw a sticker they found offensive, perhaps college isn't for them. The students have a laptop, not a crystal ball - they don't know how people will react ahead of time, especially since their sign isn't disparaging a specific group of people, it's in support of the police. If police is triggering to the Karens in the video, they must have it pretty rough just walking down the street and seeing a cop car.

You're absolutely judging by the colour of their skin - re-read what you've posted so far. You've elevated the severity of the situation specifically because the two male students were white. You have to decide if it's the sticker that's triggering you, or the fact that the student brandishing this weapon of mass destruction was white, or both. You can only avoid the original question for so long - do you think it would be equally offensive if the two students were black or not? Or a different minority? They do exist, you know.

Again, there's no "history of triggering" going on here. Your "triggers" are for you to deal with. Besides, it's not even true. If statistics are anything to go by, 12.4% of all police officers are black, which is pretty close to equal representation, considering 13% of U.S. population is black. The same proportionality applies across the board - if anything, Asians are slightly underrepresented as far as minorities go.



Source: DataUSA

Membership in the police force is pretty closely proportional to the racial breakdown of the nation, so each individual race has an equal level of interest in policing, give or take. Conversely, support for Defund the Police is dwindling. If Ipsos is anything to go by, only 28% of black Americans support the movement to cut police funding.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...18-support-defund-police-movement/4599232001/

As far as trampling goes, if the space is multicultural and embraces everybody then it must necessarily embrace things the flock of Karens doesn't like. If it doesn't then it's neither multicultural nor tolerant. I also like how you point out that the students were white, again, thus solidifying my theory that you have some kind of problem with their race that you don't want to properly vocalise. To reiterate, and this will probably be my last response since we're going in circles here, the only people in the video that were intolerant were the Karens, they're the ones who discriminated against the two students with the laptop and eventually forced them to leave. If you expect people to be tolerant of your beliefs, it is generally a good idea to return the favour and be tolerant of theirs. The correct course of action was to engage in a discussion or to leave these two students alone, the Karens picked the only wrong course of action - throwing an aggressive, hissy fit. With some luck, a complaint was filed with the dean and appropriate action was taken, although this event is far too small to hold my interest for long. What does interest me is the degree of mental gymnastics on display trying to excuse two Karens behaving like literal children over a sticker - now that's entertaining to me.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 14, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Weird way to respond, but fair enough @SyphenFreht. First of all, none of this has anything to do with decency. The only thing that's indecent in this entire shabam is accosting strangers who are just sitting in what appears to be a study hall and minding their own business. Nobody is forced to "acknowledge" any wrongs that have befallen other groups of people in the past on a whim - if you expect others to kowtow before you because of some past injustice that they personally had nothing to do with, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. They're not responsible for any of those wrongs, and they're not obligated to entertain any ridiculous requests - they're not house pets.
> 
> I don't see anything "underhanded" going on - the sticker looks normal to me, the same as any other bumper sticker for any other cause, there's nothing absurd or particularly "baity" about it. The Karens are reacting the way they are because they've been conditioned to think that in this magical cot they can use their supposed victimhood as leverage in order to impose their will on others - they were taught to be bullies, so they're bullying the guy. You are right in saying that they probably wouldn't act like that in different circumstances, like outside of the school, but you're wrong about why that's the case. They wouldn't do that outside of the school because the possibility of getting punched in the mouth for accosting a stranger is very real. Quality bait, the fishies were all too happy to chow on.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I think I got halfway through my response before I realized how I did it. By then it was too late to go back lol. 

No, but to the people concerned, they were invading. To you that might seem a stretch, and that's fine,  everyone reacts differently to the same scenario. That's what the point is. Seeing it from both sides, and an objective point of view, to come to a conclusion in the end that things escalated over something that shouldn't have happened in the first place, on both accounts. 

Maybe, maybe not, but anything after what we know is conjecture. What we know is A) some people find the sticker and what it promotes as racist B) the students were asked to put away or hide their propaganda and C) both sides escalated what should have been an otherwise peaceful manner. At no point did the students have to comply one way or another, just as at no point the other students had to be decent about it, one way or another. 

I wish I could agree, but intent is just as much a mitigating factor in the court room as action itself. If the students can prove there was no intent behind their presence, then this should be a slam dunk in their favor. However, once they started confronting back, they became just as guilty as what the POC are purported to be.

If everything was black or white we wouldn't need an extensive legal system in place to sort out how much of any given perspective is right vs what's wrong. You have a great mentality there, but it's not blanket worthy. 

Unless, of course, you have jurisdiction over what can and cannot be presented there, such as if you were an organizer to the event, space, whatever you may call it, as was pointed out in one of think links I posted earlier. 

On the other hand, it can be argued that by simply showing up to a place where something you brazenly display triggers the people there, that would be antagonistic. It's not a Walmart, it's a place where antagonists are not meant to be.  

At no point have I judged on color of skin. A descriptor is not judgment. You seem to also not understand that you cannot have a discussion in a thread about race without racial identifiers. I have not stated that they were antagonizers because they were white, or that they were wrong because they were white. That's judgment. I stated that you had students, who happen to be white, who antagonizes students who happen to be POC. If you were to take out all racial identification, you'd have "students antagonize other students" which yes, is a constant problem,  no not news worthy because the news sensationalizes everything,  and yes, should still be scrutinized regardless because antagonizing people for the sake of response is not ok. Of course, if race wasn't made a prominent factor, this wouldn't have even been posted and none of us wild be here. 

You can provide statistics all you want, it doesn't dissuade the idea that people believe otherwise. Ridicule the idea all you want, it doesn't invalidate the idea to those who hold it. You've already stated the conversing over this does not interest you. If I've brought it up, it's to reinforce the idea that some people are triggered by it. My ideas of its validity are best left in another thread. 

I can tell it's entertaining, it's the one thing we keep coming back to. The point is, you don't have to understand or agree with it, but this is how society is going to move forward. Neither of us have the interest or commitment to try and persuade the other into believing differently, however one of us may still be somewhat surprised as these things keep happening. POC have been discriminated against for more than ~300 years, and yes that includes the Irish and Jewish as well as many others. We've agreed that the POC involved may have escalated what happened, but to find only one party guilty of anything opposed to the other party's complete innocence is absurd.


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## Darth Meteos (Oct 14, 2021)

this is like going to the multicultural room with "confederate lives matter"
they came to get kicked out, fuck off


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## Foxi4 (Oct 14, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> this is like going to the multicultural room with "confederate lives matter"
> they came to get kicked out, fuck off


It's actually the exact opposite. The Confederacy, as the name implies, was a confederacy of rogue states that aimed at seceding from the Union and were willing to fight in order to achieve that objective. The police is an integral part of the Union - they're its law enforcement. Every police officer is an agent of the government in the most literal sense.


SyphenFreht said:


> I wish I could agree, but intent is just as much a mitigating factor in the court room as action itself. If the students can prove there was no intent behind their presence, then this should be a slam dunk in their favor. However, once they started confronting back, they became just as guilty as what the POC are purported to be.


Total gibberish. The students don't have to prove anything, they're the ones standing accused in your hypothetical scenario. You're the one who would have to demonstrate guilt and malicious intent, in a manner that wouldn't leave a shadow of doubt. Everything else you've mentioned, from how people felt to the purpose of the spot is immaterial - the students are not obligated to care about any of it. Paradoxically, they'd have less of a right to do so in a Wal-mart than in the setting we're discussing right now. I don't have to try hard to prove guilt on the part of the Karens - I have video evidence of them accosting fellow students. Over a sticker. That they could've simply ignored.


> I can tell it's entertaining, it's the one thing we keep coming back to. The point is, you don't have to understand or agree with it, but* this is how society is going to move forward*. Neither of us have the interest or commitment to try and persuade the other into believing differently, however one of us may still be somewhat surprised as these things keep happening. POC have been discriminated against for more than ~300 years, and yes that includes the Irish and Jewish as well as many others. We've agreed that the POC involved may have escalated what happened, but *to find only one party guilty of anything opposed to the other party's complete innocence is absurd*.


Not if we can help it. It's not like we haven't been through this before - we've dealt with PC culture in the 90's, people eventually became exausted with constantly walking on eggshells, mocked it out of existence and we've returned to a semblance of normality. History is cyclical like that, this is no different. It's also not at all absurd to call one party guilty, and I don't see why you'd say otherwise. One side is guilty, demonstrably so. We don't know if it was tricked into behaving improperly or not, what we do know is that they behaved inappropriately, and that's what we're trying to establish - the rest is immaterial.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 14, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Total gibberish. The students don't have to prove anything, they're the ones standing accused in your hypothetical scenario. You're the one who would have to demonstrate guilt and malicious intent, in a manner that wouldn't leave a shadow of doubt. Everything else you've mentioned, from how people felt to the purpose of the spot is immaterial - the students are not obligated to care about any of it. Paradoxically, they'd have less of a right to do so in a Wal-mart than in the setting we're discussing right now. I don't have to try hard to prove guilt on the part of the Karens - I have video evidence of them accosting fellow students. Over a sticker. That they could've simply ignored.
> 
> Not if we can help it. It's not like we haven't been through this before - we've dealt with PC culture in the 90's, people eventually became exausted with constantly walking on eggshells, mocked it out of existence and we've returned to a semblance of normality. History is cyclical like that, this is no different. It's also not at all absurd to call one party guilty, and I don't see why you'd say otherwise. One side is guilty, demonstrably so. We don't know if it was tricked into behaving improperly or not, what we do know is that they behaved inappropriately, and that's what we're trying to establish - the rest is immaterial.



When does the accused not have to prove anything? They're being accused. There might not be much evidence against them, but if they're in the right, it should be easy, right? 

Yeah, and if exhaustion of the intolerant is how this will go, so be it. Ignorance isn't bliss, regardless of what one is ignorant of. Even if the white students are ignorant, that's still something that should be held against them, is it not? In what right in this day and age can someone be that ignorant? Even if it was total disregard and apathy, that's still a problem. There's no excuse for turning a blind eye


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## Foxi4 (Oct 14, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> When does the accused not have to prove anything? They're being accused. There might not be much evidence against them, but if they're in the right, it should be easy, right?
> 
> Yeah, and if exhaustion of the intolerant is how this will go, so be it. Ignorance isn't bliss, regardless of what one is ignorant of. Even if the white students are ignorant, that's still something that should be held against them, is it not? In what right in this day and age can someone be that ignorant? Even if it was total disregard and apathy, that's still a problem. There's no excuse for turning a blind eye


Because it's not a witch trial, that's why. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to demonstrate guilt, not on the accused to prove their innocence. Your train of thought is how society ended up tying rocks to people and tossing them into rivers to check if they'll float - not a very effective way to detect witchcraft, as it turns out. From the perspective of the accused, if they're not guilty then they're simply not - they cannot prove a negative, and shouldn't be expected to do so. In the ridiculous hypothetical court scenario they're guilty of nothing, other than owning a cheeky sticker, which they're entitled to own. As for the latter part of your post, living in a distopian future where you can't have any opinion since *something* is always "triggering" to *someone* is the definition of a nightmare, and must necessarily be opposed. What you're effectively saying is that you're free to have any opinion you want, as long as it is the "approved" opinion - nice one. Thankfully, if history is anything to go by, so far ridicule has proven to be very effective against such wannabe-tyranny of crybabies. These kinds of outbursts are childish, absurd, and they deserve to be ridiculed. It doesn't take much effort to ridicule them either, the jokes write themselves. You're assuming that people are "turning a blind eye" to some kind of perceived injustice - in reality they might be in disagreement with you on whether any injustice at all is taking place. More importantly, the specific message on the sticker had nothing to do with any particular injustice anyway - it was a simple statement. "Police Lives Matter" - do they not? If not, why? That's the core mechanic behind other slogans of this nature, is it not? When do we get to the part where we have to recite magic spells, and if we refuse, we get a special brand, like a scarlet letter? Of course, you and I both know that trick (not a very good one either, but then again, I'm not the one who invented it), but that's besides the point.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 14, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Because it's not a witch trial, that's why. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to demonstrate guilt, not on the accused to prove their innocence. Your train of thought is how society ended up tying rocks to people and tossing them into rivers to check if they'll float - not a very effective way to detect witchcraft, as it turns out. From the perspective of the accused, if they're not guilty then they're simply not - they cannot prove a negative, and shouldn't be expected to do so. In the ridiculous hypothetical court scenario they're guilty of nothing, other than owning a cheeky sticker, which they're entitled to own. As for the latter part of your post, living in a distopian future where you can't have any opinion since *something* is always "triggering" to *someone* is the definition of a nightmare, and must necessarily be opposed. What you're effectively saying is that you're free to have any opinion you want, as long as it is the "approved" opinion - nice one. Thankfully, if history is anything to go by, so far ridicule has proven to be very effective against such wannabe-tyranny of crybabies. These kinds of outbursts are childish, absurd, and they deserve to be ridiculed. It doesn't take much effort to ridicule them either, the jokes write themselves. You're assuming that people are "turning a blind eye" to some kind of perceived injustice - in reality they might be in disagreement with you on whether any injustice at all is taking place. More importantly, the specific message on the sticker had nothing to do with any particular injustice anyway - it was a simple statement. "Police Lives Matter" - do they not? If not, why? That's the core mechanic behind other slogans of this nature, is it not? When do we get to the part where we have to recite magic spells, and if we refuse, we get a special brand, like a scarlet letter? Of course, you and I both know that trick (not a very good one either, but then again, I'm not the one who invented it), but that's besides the point.




That's the problem with antagonistic behavior: more often than not, it comes across as complete innocence. In a perfect society where all people were actually innocent into proven guilty, we wouldn't even be having this discussion of antagonism.  However, we both know this isn't the case, at least in the states. Someone accuses you of something, you're jailed until you prove it. Do I wish any of these students jail time? No. Honestly, I perceive it as a couple of students that wanted to cause some drama and a couple other students who immediately fought back with emotion, over logic. I don't think either one should be punished in this scenario, but I still stand by my statement that, if accused and innocent, then the two white students should have admitted ignorance. At that point, they could have filed a complaint against the students of color and had them reprimanded in some form. But just as some of us criticize POC for not being the bigger person in situations like these, the white students should also be held to the same accountability. 

I never stated nor implied, purposely, that people shouldn't have an opinion or be allowed to voice it. However, if everyone is allowed to have an equal voice, and their opinions respected, then triggers should be respected as well. I don't mean hide your voice in favor of others, I mean respect that their triggers are voices too. What you do after that acknowledgement leads to your distinguishment of character, and society will sort out how you're to be dealt with afterward. It's about respect and decency. Neither party had either in this scenario


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## Deleted member 532471 (Oct 14, 2021)

in the these things are only pitting people against each other while the true problem remains unsolved. hooray! /s


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 14, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> I'll admit at first did not see the harm in "all lives matter." But think about it, did you ever hear about that crap before BLM came about? Here we have a group of human beings screaming at us for help saying we are being abused and mistreated, and then instead of supporting them and believing them we are correcting their statement and then doing fuck all to help. I could see why it pisses them off. And plus if someone loves the police so much to start a movement for them, they should make up their own catch phrase. But the reason for blue lives matter is not to support police, its to belittle and oppose the black lives matter movement. They made that obvious with the name choice. Plus if racist cops didn't fuck w/ POC so much, they wouldn't have had to start the movement in the first place. Yes I know perfectly well all cops are not bad, but the bad ones did more than enough damage for the lot and there is an old saying that all it takes for evil to endure is good people/good cops doing nothing. And while I don't know that they "did nothing" the good ones evidently did not do nearly enough to make a difference according to POC.


Well the truth is there was no racism in the George Floyd Death
Yes I said it 
Looks up the facts
Don't just trust the news


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## notimp (Oct 14, 2021)

Lets talk about intent for a little while also.

A: We have a massive problem of police discrimination and racial profiling against black people in the US. People are dying because of it. Thats not nothing. Black lives matter.

B: Police lives matter also!

Its pretty obvious that the intent of the answering statement in this case is to disrupt people following the logic, or the intent of the first statement.

At best it is a "they get attention, we want attention as well" statement, at its worst its literally subverting the intent of the first statement by opening up a false equivalency. ("Some bad people are hurt, but also some police people are hurt - so lets call it quits").

The question to ask now becomes - were the people wearing those shirts utter idiots, that actually thought they were fighting for police protection.

Or were they instigators that literally baited a response of someone calling them insigators to then say - no, no, we are idiots, and you discriminated against human rights on behalf of police officers.

The far right isnt that dumb... so - now we have a discussion in place of the original discussion about police discrimination and overreach.

Without any data that would support the "there is need to fight against violence against police, people should watch more teletubbies, and play Spongebob games instead of GTA" but by a simple inversion on the original slogan.

BLM? Yes, but police lifes matter as well! No one said they wouldnt, you are just trying to move people away from the initial problem where activism was employed to get public recognition.

Its the same logic as with pepe memes. We tell everyone, that its "commedy" or "sarcastic humor" - and then you cant censor racism. We tell everyone, that there is a false equivalency - where police officers lives should also matter more in the public discussion, and you cant censor it, because "dont police lives matter?" - us pulling the humanist card.

Thats not trolling btw (because trolling (done correctly) is aimed, at pulling truths out of inconsitancies), this is aimed at creating logical fallacies, that cover up issues, so nothing is, or can be done about them.

Its "adbusting" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subvertising ), just for racists. They studied the left. Then applied their protest principles against them. Now they are private sector/establishment financed AND edgy..


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## notimp (Oct 14, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Well the truth is there was no racism in the George Floyd Death
> Yes I said it
> Looks up the facts
> Don't just trust the news


Thats aggitation propaganda.

You cant look up racism.

Its interpretation by default.

A court for example will never "pronounce" someone racist, in a high profile case, if they maintain they are not. Thats not how it works, "The court of public opinion" is different from how the legal system works.

And how do you prove a thought, or an emotion, or a motivation that would lead to a character classification in front of court? You dont.

So if you have to "objectify racism" you end up with something like that:

"George Floyd’s killing not a hate crime because it was systemic not ‘explicit’ racism, says official"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/george-floyd-killing-hate-crime-b1837419.html

Meaning: He didnt scream out the N-word while crushing his throat. Thereby its not explicit racism.

Systemic racism meaning - that him targeted the individual and seeing in them a "bigger threat", and that others not doing anything, looking at the police officer killing a man - had underlying racial motives. Now lets call them "structural" and its no specific persons fault. Horray.


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## Zajumino (Oct 14, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> It's about respect and decency. Neither party had either in this scenario


I agree that ideally, people should always behave respectfully and decently. In practice, however, I think that it can sometimes be difficult. Because the sticker people did not forcefully initiate an encounter, some lenience could be given towards their behavior.

Perhaps rather than blaming the individuals here, we should look at the fault of those who caused them to behave this way. In other words, society is to blame to a certain degree when this kind of stuff happens. I'm pretty sure people didn't act like this (as often?) back in the day. I might be wrong, though.



Darth Meteos said:


> this is like going to the multicultural room with "confederate lives matter"
> they came to get kicked out, fuck off


So basically, all police in America want to secede from the Union and form their own government that allows slavery.
I see.


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## Benja81 (Oct 14, 2021)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Honestly I feel this is more of a person to person view or opinion of its purpose. Some see it as that while some see it as a response to all Police being classified as racist automatons without any humanity or life outside of the badge. People forget that not all police are bad people but in the same way a racist person can try to convince you that all POC's are bad, the alternate side is trying to do the very same with saying that all Police are bad.


Based on my personal experience, I have a very positive view of cops. Now that I'm older I realize this is probably at least partially because I'm white and grew up in an "affluent" area. Or very least was just lucky and had decent cops around my area. When I was younger I couldn't understand why POC had a bad perception of cops. When you don't understand something or haven't experienced things the same way, it can be easy to assume its not true. But in reality that has been *their* personal experience. I'll probably never be able to relate to that in my current circumstances/skin, but I choose to believe them and support them where I can. Same thing happens to women who report rape. If I were going through a terrible ordeal, I know I would want support and would want to be believed, even if others did not experience the same thing I did. It would hurt for people to tell me my personal experience wasn't true or it didn't matter cause of who I am or I was exagerating the truth etc. We've also seen the many clips in our modern age to know they aren't making it up. I'm not at all against a movement to support _good_ police officers, they are sacrificing their lives and safety for us I get that and appreciatte that. However, if they didn't want to get dragged they should have made up their own name instead of morphing the name of an existing movement.


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## Benja81 (Oct 14, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Well the truth is there was no racism in the George Floyd Death
> Yes I said it
> Looks up the facts
> Don't just trust the news


Here are the facts. A white police officer chose to take actions in which he became judge, jury, and executioner of an innocent black man. Based on the history in America I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking there was racism involved on some level. That said, I do NOT believe it was a hate crime, because there is no (that I know of) evidence to support that. But nobody goes around saying "I'm racist!" Other than some far right bozos. Most people generally believe they aren't racist, but sadly due to history, culture, and learned behavior, most people actually are to varying degrees. Even if they don't want to admit nor aspire to it. Its sorta like being an addict in the sense of, admitting it is the first step to progress.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 14, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> Here are the facts. A white police officer chose to take actions in which he became judge, jury, and executioner of an innocent black man. Based on the history in America I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking there was racism involved on some level. That said, I do NOT believe it was a hate crime, because there is no (that I know of) evidence to support that. But nobody goes around saying "I'm racist!" Other than some far right bozos. Most people generally believe they aren't racist, but sadly due to history, culture, and learned behavior, most people actually are to varying degrees. Even if they don't want to admit nor aspire to it. Its sorta like being an addict in the sense of, admitting it is the first step to progress.


Let me stop you right there
That wasn't fully what I was referring too
The two knew each other which gives them experience
https://www.newsweek.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together-relationship-1579431 https://www.newsweek.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together-relationship-1579431
Also remember George stole from a store so *HE ISN'T INNOCENT*
Of course killing someone over a few cigarettes' is ridiculous 
but just correcting you 
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14493782/what-drugs-did-george-floyd-have-system/
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2657009/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-too-many-drugs
He did drugs during the crime
I FULLY AGREE THAT *DEREK CHAUVIN IS AN EVIL HUMAN BEING but it feels as though everything is now racist*


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 14, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> That's the problem with antagonistic behavior: more often than not, it comes across as complete innocence. In a perfect society where all people were actually innocent into proven guilty, we wouldn't even be having this discussion of antagonism.  However, we both know this isn't the case, at least in the states. Someone accuses you of something, you're jailed until you prove it. Do I wish any of these students jail time? No. Honestly, I perceive it as a couple of students that wanted to cause some drama and a couple other students who immediately fought back with emotion, over logic. I don't think either one should be punished in this scenario, but I still stand by my statement that, if accused and innocent, then the two white students should have admitted ignorance. At that point, they could have filed a complaint against the students of color and had them reprimanded in some form. But just as some of us criticize POC for not being the bigger person in situations like these, the white students should also be held to the same accountability.
> 
> I never stated nor implied, purposely, that people shouldn't have an opinion or be allowed to voice it. However, if everyone is allowed to have an equal voice, and their opinions respected, then triggers should be respected as well. I don't mean hide your voice in favor of others, I mean respect that their triggers are voices too. What you do after that acknowledgement leads to your distinguishment of character, and society will sort out how you're to be dealt with afterward. It's about respect and decency. Neither party had either in this scenario


I’m not entirely sure what your expectations are here. Let’s say that the students kowtowed to the whims of the Karens (they shouldn’t, their response was correct, and their only mistake was eventually leaving) - what next? They acknowledge that the sticker “triggered” some crazy girls, now what? They remove the sticker? Stop working and hide the laptop? What exactly do you want them to do that doesn’t result in them having to leave? I’m a “stand your ground” kind of guy - if you have a problem with something I’m wearing, or something I have on my person in general, I’m sorry that you feel that way, but I’m not changing my schedule for you. The correct response is “jog on”, if the sticker is “triggering” to you, stop looking at it. It’s actually very simple, all you have to do is turn approximately 180 degrees and your issue will disappear from your field of vision. I’m not telling you what stickers you can put on your stuff, you should extend the same courtesy to me if you purport to be tolerant of different points of view. I understand that you’re trying to sell me on the girls being “genuinely concerned about the mental health of other users of this space” line, but it’s pretty clear to me that they were on a power trip, so I’m afraid that I can’t sympathise. If it moos, it’s a cow. That right there was a cow, mooing. At the very least you do acknowledge that the girls with complainonitis went way overboard, and that’s an agreeable enough outcome to me.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 14, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Antagonizing someone by bringing triggering propaganda into a well known triggered space to get them to act a certain way is assault.


No, at best it is a provocation like bringing a Bible to North Korea, stripping in public or drawing the prophet in a Muslim country. All three cases are a clear provocations (and whether it would be wrong to do them is up to personal opinion), while the one we are discussing is not.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 14, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> No, at best it is a provocation like bringing a Bible to North Korea, stripping in public or drawing the prophet in a Muslim country. All three cases are a clear provocations (and whether it would be wrong to do them is up to personal opinion), while the one we are discussing is not.


You better be careful with that “drawing the prophet” business - last time someone did that in France a bunch of people got triggered and it ended with a shooting. Oh wait, you did specify “Muslim country”, nevermind.

Tasteless jokes aside (even though I’m pretty sure Charlie Hebdo writers would get a good chuckle out of that one, given the nature of their work), “provocation” is no excuse for violence anyway. Thankfully here it didn’t come to blows, but the principle remains the same. If you’re not free to use provocative speech, you don’t actually have free speech.


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## Benja81 (Oct 14, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Let me stop you right there
> That wasn't fully what I was referring too
> The two knew each other which gives them experience
> https://www.newsweek.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together-relationship-1579431 https://www.newsweek.com/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-worked-together-relationship-1579431
> ...


Nobody is guilty until proven in a court of law. Sadly in America everything is basically racist.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 14, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> All lives matter/blue lives matter is petty white people who don't understand or accept that POC are being abused and killed everyday. By saying those things (and its unbelievably obvious you are only saying that because of BLM not because you fucking care) what you are really saying is that black lives don't matter.


BLM is the equivalent of "Men Lives Matter". Men kill women at a much higher rate, but do not want to be killed by police at a higher rate.

You are correct, POC are abused and killed everyday, namely Asian-Americans by African-Americans. If you look at FBI statistics, you arrive at an insane number (of how likely it is the former attacks the latter vs the other way around).

BLM, the media and elites in the US have done a great job to manipulate public perception. 44% of liberals believe that 1.000 or more unarmed* African-American men are killed by police per year. 
[*does not mean innocent, just as armed does not mean guilty]


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## Darth Meteos (Oct 14, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It's actually the exact opposite. The Confederacy, as the name implies, was a confederacy of rogue states that aimed at seceding from the Union and were willing to fight in order to achieve that objective. The police is an integral part of the Union - they're its law enforcement. Every police officer is an agent of the government in the most literal sense.





Zajumino said:


> So, basically, all police in America want to secede from the Union and form their own government that allows slavery.
> I see.


either you deliberately missed the point or you're both dumb as rocks
which is it


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 14, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> Nobody is guilty until proven in a court of law. Sadly in America everything is basically racist.


Chauvin is proven guilty and George Floyd wasn't actually given a court trial ( can't imagine why) but the evidence is clear


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 14, 2021)

The mostly-peaceful demonstrations proved him guilty. I would have found him guilty as well if I had been part of the jury.


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## Benja81 (Oct 15, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Chauvin is proven guilty


Thank God for that because as you said the evidence was clear.


WiiMiiSwitch said:


> George Floyd wasn't actually given a court trial  but the evidence is clear


Probably so, but I have stolen before and been caught as well and have resisted arrest before too in my much younger days. I'm still still alive because the arresting cop must have believed my life mattered. Why didn't Chauvin think George Floyd's life mattered?


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 15, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> Thank God for that because as you said the evidence was clear.
> 
> Probably so, but I have stolen before and been caught as well and have resisted arrest before too in my much younger days. I'm still still alive because the arresting cop must have believed my life mattered. Why didn't Chauvin think George Floyd's life mattered?


George Floyd was resisting at first and you have to remember they used to work with each other.
Guess he was just a bad officer 
Also if you check George Floyd's criminal record it isn't anything good


----------



## Zajumino (Oct 15, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> either you deliberately missed the point or you're both dumb as rocks
> which is it


I am as dumb as a rock, obviously.

Foxi4's point is that as organizations, the police and the Confederacy have very different purposes. Supporting one of the two is much more understandable than the other. So while bringing a "confederate lives matter" sticker into the multicultural room would more clearly indicate their intentions, having a "police lives matter" sticker may not have been intended for any particular purpose besides showing support for police.



Benja81 said:


> Here are the facts. A white police officer chose to take actions in which he became judge, jury, and executioner of an innocent black man. Based on the history in America I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking there was racism involved on some level. That said, I do NOT believe it was a hate crime, because there is no (that I know of) evidence to support that. But nobody goes around saying "I'm racist!" Other than some far right bozos. Most people generally believe they aren't racist, but sadly due to history, culture, and learned behavior, most people actually are to varying degrees. Even if they don't want to admit nor aspire to it. Its sorta like being an addict in the sense of, admitting it is the first step to progress.


I am pretty sure there were no facts here. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you did say "here are the facts"



Benja81 said:


> I'm still still alive because the arresting cop must have believed my life mattered. Why didn't Chauvin think George Floyd's life mattered?


Usually, people don't kill others just because they don't think their life matters. Was it ever proven that Chauvin killed him intentionally? All I know is that he was found guilty of something, but not the details.


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## Benja81 (Oct 15, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> I am pretty sure there were no facts here. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you did say "here are the facts"



Do you know what facts are?

A white police officer (fact) chose to take actions in which he became judge, jury, and executioner (fact) of an innocent black man (fact).

"Usually, people don't kill others just because they don't think their life matters."

 Usually people don't kill others if they think their life mattered.

Fixed it for you.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2021)

Velorian said:


> All hospital visits matter! Sorry buddy I know you bleeding out and might die any minute, but I broke my finger and got here first.





Velorian said:


> All knife wounds matter! You were stabbed in the heart?!....Ahh geee wizz I cut my finger chopping veggies....we equal bro...All knife wounds matter!


This is probably where the thread should've ended, Velorian does a great job of demonstrating what "all lives matter" and "police lives matter" are really all about.  Translated they mean, "but what about MY problems?"  It's completely tone deaf at best, outright insulting at worst to imply that COPS of all people are treated worse in America than the very citizens they constantly brutalize and murder.

"Police spouse lives matter" would make far more sense, as 40% of cops openly admit to being domestic abusers.  Or hell, even "retail/fast food lives matter" would make more sense, since they have to deal with the very same assholes all day, and they don't get to hide behind qualified immunity when they overreact during a confrontation.


----------



## notimp (Oct 15, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> BLM is the equivalent of "Men Lives Matter". Men kill women at a much higher rate, but do not want to be killed by police at a higher rate.
> 
> You are correct, POC are abused and killed everyday, namely Asian-Americans by African-Americans. If you look at FBI statistics, you arrive at an insane number (of how likely it is the former attacks the latter vs the other way around).
> 
> ...


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## Zajumino (Oct 15, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> Do you know what facts are?
> 
> A white police officer (fact) chose to take actions in which he became judge, jury, and executioner (fact) of an innocent black man (fact).


Can you explain what you mean by this? I considered it to be an opinion based on the middle part, where you interpreted his actions as him becoming "judge, jury, and executioner." If by this you simply meant he killed him, then yes, it is a fact, but it seemed to me that there were also some connotations as well.

Also, I don't think that this is the only fact regarding the death of George Floyd.



Benja81 said:


> Usually people don't kill others if they think their life mattered.
> 
> Fixed it for you.


Usually, people don't kill others.

My point was that there was probably some other reason why Floyd was killed. Perhaps it was unintentional. Like I said before, I don't know the details, so please inform me.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 15, 2021)

notimp said:


>



So? The video constantly makes to per capita comparisons, thereby assuming that all races commit the same amount of crimes per person, which is simply false. The number of unarmed African-Americans more or less mirrors their overpresentation in crime. In terms of the total number of people killed by police (which is about 1000 per year), African-Americans are actually underrepresented (25% in recent years) when crime levels are taken into consideration.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 15, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> either you deliberately missed the point or you're both dumb as rocks
> which is it


Oh, I got your point - it was silly point, so I twisted it around a bit for you for our mutual entertainment. The implication of your post is that the police is deliberately hunting minorities like a Confederate death squad chasing runaway slaves to get’em back in chains, which is downright ridiculous, or as you put it, “dumb as rocks”. The fact that you’re even suggesting police officers sit around in bushes like Jimbo and Ned, shouting “it’s coming right for us!” and aiming their shotguns as soon as they see something brown on the horizon shows complete separation from reality, so I’m not sure what you were expecting. Showing support for law enforcement is just that - showing support for law enforcement. If that’s triggering to people, life must be pretty rough seeing that you can’t walk one city block without encountering an officer in most cities.


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## notimp (Oct 15, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So? The video constantly makes to per capita comparisons, thereby assuming that all races commit the same amount of crimes per person, which is simply false. The number of unarmed African-Americans more or less mirrors their overpresentation in crime. In terms of the total number of people killed by police (which is about 1000 per year), African-Americans are actually underrepresented (25% in recent years) when crime levels are taken into consideration.


Thats wrong and a highly problematic approach.

Its not race that makes you more or less criminal (see international comparisons).

It might be socio-demographic factors ("slums") and its already proven to be police targeting. (In short - police aimed for "higher action rate" - partly using systems (predictive modeling) that are similar to a machine learning approach. So they produced self fulfilling trends. If more crimes in black neighborhoods, computer says, move more people into black neighborhoods, where they are then reporting more crimes (reporting structure, and incetives for that) -- thats targeting). To solve that issue - you have to get rid of slums - i.e. sectors where only people of a low/poor socio economic outlook live.

Long story short - there are no "clean" statistics, that simply would show that black people - even without guns, would need to be guned down more often - how about with 17 bullets.

Also your interpretation is aggitative, and racist in argument - someone needs to point that out as well. 

And yes, we are presuming "somewhat" equal rate of violent crimes between races (see other countries). Which is the right thing to do -- at least compaired to your model which is "lets take absolute numbers".

That would produce more problems than lets say a slight variation that would indicate that "black people are more aggressive" or whatever (potentially very racist) proxy you need to make your argument congruent. 

Issue - when you end up at "its genetic", chances are that you arent trying to solve systemic problems (like the aformentioned systemic racism). "Its genetic", has some of the same qualities as "its god given"... you finish that sentence.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 15, 2021)

notimp said:


> Its not race that makes you more or less criminal (see international comparisons).
> [...]
> And yes, we are presuming "somewhat" equal rate of violent crimes between races (see other countries).


Yes, let´s look at international comparisons: East-Asians commit the least violent crimes in every country. You will have a hard time to even find the exception to the rule, as long as you compare average citizens, not e.g. student populations or foreign workers with average citizens.

Sociological factors play a role, poor people tend to commit more crimes within races. But when you compare poor people between races, you see the same pattern: poor East-Asians commit the least amount of violent crimes. Furthermore, poverty is often the result of criminality. We saw this in an impressive way last summer: BLM riots destroyed businesses in many neighborhoods. Crimes below a certain dollar amount are not prosecuted. Stores close. Poverty spreads. Let´s not forget about the "racist" policy of some stores to lock beauty products for black skin. Is this also a self-fulfilling prophecy or were store owners simply reacting to reality? It is true to an extent that more cops means more detected crimes, but rape and murder will not increase in Chinatown, no matter how much police you send there. It is like saying "more traffic cops in a neighborhood increases speeding". In fact, African-American neighborhoods need more police, considering the staggeringly low number of solved murder cases.


----------



## notimp (Oct 15, 2021)

How about political systems? If on the other side of "violent action" stands you being abused by an authoritative system - this probably results in a lower violent crime rate (to a point).

Culture also is a point (talking about the Japanese and having learned to live in somewhat conjested areas without conflict).

That for you its mainly race is... strange.

My point mainly being - you are selling causal theories of racial character differences, that the scientific community really is not. So where do you get your certainty from...

And on the statistical point - you have to divide through "as a percentage of population" otherwise you wouldnt ever realize problems in those ethnic groups (as per 2015 at lease), so that you used that as a rectification for "your point of view" is extremely disturbing...

So is the point you are trying to make - which borders on "black people are at least 100% more aggressive (violent crime rates) than the largest comparative group (white people)".

If thats your answer for the issue at hand, something is not right.


edit: Here - this should basically shatter all your racial theories:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
(if you start factoring out countries, with a civil war history in the recent past.)

Also your point as to "east asians are the least violent", is well taken, but the difference is a fraction of a percent, compaired to other working western societies, so... Hmm... Not that good to differenciate in your racial classification scheme, you are selling. Also because variance is that high.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 15, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Read again.  I said the STATEMENT "black lives matter" is not inherently political.  As a STATEMENT, not as an ORGANIZATION.  Of course the organization is politically involved and politically active, its purpose is advocating positive change via local and federal government.  Considering the alternative, I'd think you'd be okay with that.
> 
> 
> "SIT DOWN AND STFU!"  Not exactly a compelling argument for how you're trying to avoid provocation and confrontation.  If you're viewing "black lives matter" or BLM as an attack on you personally from the outset, of course you're going to try to find a slogan which counters or dismisses them.  That's a fundamental misunderstanding of their purpose, however, unless you happen to be a crooked, racist cop.



How many people do you personally know that refer to BLM as a statement outside of the organization? I'll put $ down on a big fat zero.

Where did I ever insinuate that BLM was an attack on me personally? You pulled that shit out of thin air. Yay for baseless assumptions and then using them for your argument. Clap clap. And again, the other slogans are absolutely dismissive of nothing whatsoever. Because you or anyone else feels that that are, does not make it so.



SyphenFreht said:


> I'm playing the race card, in a discussion, about race. You do understand what race and racism is, right? Like, there's no way you can be this oblivious. Or I guess maybe you can. God forbid I make a blind assumption solely on your method of argument. You do realize what constitutes a blind assumption, right? You have the entirety of the internet at your fingertips, and yet you still choose to be unintelligent in your arguments. At least you're fun.



I didn't read the rest of what I'm sure was another screenplay for a Lifetime movie, so I'll only comment on what I did read. You're not going to tell me that you didn't fully understand what was being said & that I actually need to be told there's a difference between race and racism. What a complete line of bs. But wait....like, there's no way you can be this oblivious. Or I guess maybe you can. In which case it appears I will literally need to rephrase things for you because you're choosing to be unintelligent in your arguments.

You're a hypocritical closet racist and the only one playing the racist/racism cards.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 15, 2021)

Edit: Sorry, double post.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Oct 15, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> No, at best it is a provocation like bringing a Bible to North Korea, stripping in public or drawing the prophet in a Muslim country. All three cases are a clear provocations (and whether it would be wrong to do them is up to personal opinion), while the one we are discussing is not.



Tom-ay-to, tom-ah-to. Whether you provoke or antagonize, you're still trying to illicit a response that may have not happened otherwise. Regardless of outcome, it should've never happened in the first place. 



D34DL1N3R said:


> I didn't read the rest of what I'm sure was another screenplay for a Lifetime movie, so I'll only comment on what I did read. You're not going to tell me that you didn't fully understand what was being said & that I actually need to be told there's a difference between race and racism. What a complete line of bs. But wait....like, there's no way you can be this oblivious. Or I guess maybe you can. In which case it appears I will literally need to rephrase things for you because you're choosing to be unintelligent in your arguments.
> 
> You're a hypocritical closet racist and the only one playing the racist/racism cards.



"Hypocritical closet racist". Why, because I didn't immediately defend myself by providing examples of times I was around POC? It sounds like you're projecting again; you add nothing to the conversation besides attacks and try to belittle your way out of an argument you're obviously losing. I can't stop you from being who you are, but I don't need to add to it either. As I've said before, when you got something that's actually worth saying, hmu. Fox and I shouldn't be the only ones having fun.



Foxi4 said:


> I’m not entirely sure what your expectations are here. Let’s say that the students kowtowed to the whims of the Karens (they shouldn’t, their response was correct, and their only mistake was eventually leaving) - what next? They acknowledge that the sticker “triggered” some crazy girls, now what? They remove the sticker? Stop working and hide the laptop? What exactly do you want them to do that doesn’t result in them having to leave? I’m a “stand your ground” kind of guy - if you have a problem with something I’m wearing, or something I have on my person in general, I’m sorry that you feel that way, but I’m not changing my schedule for you. The correct response is “jog on”, if the sticker is “triggering” to you, stop looking at it. It’s actually very simple, all you have to do is turn approximately 180 degrees and your issue will disappear from your field of vision. I’m not telling you what stickers you can put on your stuff, you should extend the same courtesy to me if you purport to be tolerant of different points of view. I understand that you’re trying to sell me on the girls being “genuinely concerned about the mental health of other users of this space” line, but it’s pretty clear to me that they were on a power trip, so I’m afraid that I can’t sympathise. If it moos, it’s a cow. That right there was a cow, mooing. At the very least you do acknowledge that the girls with complainonitis went way overboard, and that’s an agreeable enough outcome to me.



My expectations? Education. Discussion. If both parties kept a cool head and reached an agreement, they could've both shared that space. They could've presented their argument for why, the other party could have presented their argument, and voila! multicultural learning occurs. It got way too heated way too quickly over what *could be considered* a misunderstanding at minimum, which I again will state (more for others than you), which I feel is still far fetched. It doesn't even have to be that one party is guilty over the other; the POC acted at what could be considered antagonistic behavior, and if the other students explained themselves, then only the POC  would be at fault. Should they have to? Probably not. But why escalate? Same question for the POC.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 15, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> "Hypocritical closet racist". Why, because I didn't immediately defend myself by providing examples of times I was around POC? It sounds like you're projecting again; you add nothing to the conversation besides attacks and try to belittle your way out of an argument you're obviously losing. I can't stop you from being who you are, but I don't need to add to it either. As I've said before, when you got something that's actually worth saying, hmu. Fox and I shouldn't be the only ones having fun.


Says the person attacking and belittling their way out of an argument with a comment that has nothing actually worth saying.  You just proved an example of your hypocrisy all on your own. As I've said, can't even make this up. Smfh.

And the reason you're a hypocritical closet racist isn't because you "blah blah blah blah blah". It's because you're actually a hypocritical closet racist.


----------



## Benja81 (Oct 15, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> Can you explain what you mean by this? I considered it to be an opinion based on the middle part, where you interpreted his actions as him becoming "judge, jury, and executioner." If by this you simply meant he killed him, then yes, it is a fact, but it seemed to me that there were also some connotations as well.


Judge=determined the sentence
Jury=decided he was guilty
exocutioner=that one is obvious



Zajumino said:


> Usually, people don't kill others.
> 
> My point was that there was probably some other reason why Floyd was killed. Perhaps it was unintentional. Like I said before, I don't know the details, so please inform me.


When you have your knee on someones kneck for over 9 min while they are saying "I can't breathe" and while bystanders are saying "you're killing him" how much more intentional could you get?


----------



## SyphenFreht (Oct 15, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Says the person attacking and belittling their way out of an argument with a comment that has nothing actually worth saying.  You just proved an example of your hypocrisy all on your own. As I've said, can't even make this up. Smfh.
> 
> And the reason you're a hypocritical closet racist isn't because you "blah blah blah blah blah". It's because you're actually a hypocritical closet racist.



Uh huh. I'm the racist, in a thread about race, defending POC. Well, at least your logic isn't flawed /s


If all you're going to do is flame bait, I'm just going to stop playing with you. At least try to make things fun and interesting.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 15, 2021)

SyphenFreht said:


> Uh huh. I'm the racist, in a thread about race, defending POC. Well, at least your logic isn't flawed /s
> 
> 
> If all you're going to do is flame bait, I'm just going to stop playing with you. At least try to make things fun and interesting.



"I'm in a threat about race!!! I cannot be a racist!!!" At least your logic isn't flawed /s

I have clearly specified CLOSET racist on more than one occasion.  Do you need further clarity on what "closet" means when I call you that? Because I can certainly clear that confusion up for you. This thread is one place where you can most easily TRY to hide it but with the constant racist cards you kept playing, you've painted your own picture for all to see. I mean, it's all RIGHT there. You've also just admitted that you yourself are baiting. Awesome! You keep doing all the work for me. I also noticed that you didn't mention calling you a hypocrite. Guess you came to your senses about that and realized it's an accurate statement. Because we all know that if you felt I was wrong, you wouldn't be able to NOT argue about it.


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## SyphenFreht (Oct 15, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I have clearly specified CLOSET racist on more than one occasion.  Do you need further clarity on what "closet" means when I call you that? Because I can certainly clear that confusion up for you. This thread is one place where you can most easily TRY to hide it but with the constant racist cards you kept playing, you've painted your own picture for all to see. I mean, it's all RIGHT there. You've also just admitted that you yourself are baiting. Awesome! You keep doing all the work for me. I also noticed that you didn't mention calling you a hypocrite. Guess you came to your senses about that and realized it's an accurate statement, because if not, there is ZERO chance you wouldn't be able to help youself in an argument against it. You REALLY love the taste of your own feet, don't you?



You're not very good at this, are you? You claim that I'm a hypocritical closet racist, but then have done nothing to back your claim except telling me to reread my posts and say "It's all there!", despite not once has anyone else commented on what apparently only you've seen. You say i'm playing the race card, but then at no point have I used race as anything more than an identifier. You and Fox are the only two who have used that argument against me, and neither of you seemed upset at the term "POC", only at the term "white", so based on that alone, it sounds like you're the closet racist who wants to flame bait someone else so you can find a reason to be comfortable with your own degenerate form of thinking. And at what point did I admit to flame baiting?  And at what point did I say anything hypocritical? 

Cue unintelligible rant ignoring my questions in favor of flame baiting, please.


----------



## Zajumino (Oct 15, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> Judge=determined the sentence
> Jury=decided he was guilty


These two are definitely opinions.



Benja81 said:


> When you have your knee on someones kneck for over 9 min while they are saying "I can't breathe" and while bystanders are saying "you're killing him" how much more intentional could you get?


I find it hard to believe that anyone would intentionally kill someone in public without a good enough reason.

I just read a transcript of one officer's body camera, and it seems like multiple officers thought Floyd could breathe, even after he passed out. The bystanders say whatever without knowing if what they are saying is actually true.

I also found that Chauvin was charged for 2nd degree unintentional murder, 3rd degree murder (which can be unintentional), and 2nd degree manslaughter.

So basically, it was unintentional, as far as we know.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> How many people do you personally know that refer to BLM as a statement outside of the organization? I'll put $ down on a big fat zero.


Well I just did, so...?

Colorado is overwhelmingly white in the majority, so unfortunately when I hear someone talking about BLM, it's almost always in the context of a boogieman for the ignorant far-right.  Gotta keep that 24/7 fear-anger pipeline running somehow, eh?  How else would Fox, OAN, and BoomerBook stay in business.



D34DL1N3R said:


> Where did I ever insinuate that BLM was an attack on me personally?


In the very post I quoted:


D34DL1N3R said:


> Nor are they intentionally confrontational... unlike BLM who actually are.


I'm sorry if protests have made you late for work a couple times, or if you've had a couple bad encounters with individuals who associate with BLM, but that's still a piss-poor excuse to take a hard right into fashy territory.  My anecdotal experiences run entirely contrary to yours, as I've been welcomed in marching/protesting with BLM on more than one occasion.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 16, 2021)

notimp said:


> Culture also is a point (talking about the Japanese and having learned to live in somewhat conjested areas without conflict).
> 
> That for you its mainly race is... strange.


Culture and race are linked to a significant extend.



notimp said:


> My point mainly being - you are selling causal theories of racial character differences, that the scientific community really is not. So where do you get your certainty from...


Typical NPC thinking: Argument from authority. I don´t need scientists to tell me their opinion. I need data and my brain. If race played no role in violent crime rates, then you would expect Subsaharan Africans to be the least violent communities in some countries, and East Asians to be the most violent in some countries, but we see a CONSISTENT pattern throughout the world. Wherever there are different noteworthy communities (i.e. larger than thousand; normal citizens) in a country, the East Asians do best in school, are rarely found in gangs etc. Europeans ("Whites") are between East Asians and Subsaharan Africans. 

Are men taller than women? A leftist mind needs the scientific "community". Show me a country in which this is not the case.


notimp said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate


Comparisons between countries can be difficult (even though you can see a trend in this list). You already mentioned civil war. Find evidence within countries.


----------



## Benja81 (Oct 16, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> These two are definitely opinions.
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone would intentionally kill someone in public without a good enough reason.
> ...


Of course they would say that. But its still clear he was aware of the possibility. I wont say its impossible it was an accident, but he obviously didn't care very much, as they said it's the indifference that can be as bad as intent.


----------



## Zajumino (Oct 16, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Culture and race are linked to a significant extend.
> 
> 
> Typical NPC thinking: Argument from authority. I don´t need scientists to tell me their opinion. I need data and my brain. If race played no role in violent crime rates, then you would expect Subsaharan Africans to be the least violent communities in some countries, and East Asians to be the most violent in some countries, but we see a CONSISTENT pattern throughout the world. Wherever there are different noteworthy communities (i.e. larger than thousand; normal citizens) in a country, the East Asians do best in school, are rarely found in gangs etc. Europeans ("Whites") are between East Asians and Subsaharan Africans.
> ...


Race and violent crime are indeed correlated, but a causational relationship has yet to be shown (it sounds like you are confusing the two). Even if there was causation, it would be heavily outweighed by numerous other factors, such as location, income, and sometimes cultural aspects.
Sub-Saharan Africans tend to be poor (since they originate from poor countries) and as a result, they contribute to crime rates more then others. Poor areas tend to have higher crime rates, which means the people living there are more likely to be involved in violent crime. All of the factors are related to some extent.
In the US, East Asians tend to be immigrants or their descendants, and tend to be well educated and are usually at least middle class. I think it is clear why violent crime is less common among these people. On top of that, cultural aspects, such as emphasis on academic achievement, contributes to some degree.

If there is one thing learned from taking Statistics, it is that correlation does not imply causation.
You might already know, but still, repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation!


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 16, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> Race and violent crime are indeed correlated, but a causational relationship has yet to be shown (it sounds like you are confusing the two). Even if there was causation, it would be heavily outweighed by numerous other factors, such as location, income, and sometimes cultural aspects.


A correlation would already suffice to destroy the fairytale of a systemicly racist police.


Zajumino said:


> Sub-Saharan Africans tend to be poor (since they originate from poor countries) and as a result, they contribute to crime rates more then others. Poor areas tend to have higher crime rates, which means the people living there are more likely to be involved in violent crime. All of the factors are related to some extent.
> 
> In the US, East Asians tend to be immigrants or their descendants, and tend to be well educated and are usually at least middle class. I think it is clear why violent crime is less common among these people. On top of that, cultural aspects, such as emphasis on academic achievement, contributes to some degree.


Crime rates among poor African Americans are higher than among poor Whites (which are higher than among poor East Asians). Cultural aspects certainly play a role. And by supporting BLM you are making it worse. If you want to improve the culture of African Americans, you shouldn´t praise their rap lyrics (regardings whores, crime etc) and declare math and punctuality as white-supremacist. Regarding East Asians in the US, Chinese are the largest group of asylum seekers in the US, though I am not sure about their income. Historically, the Chinese were pretty much on-par with African Americans when they illegally built the rail-roads and were treated as a disposable workforce (slaves were at least valuable to their owners). The Vietnamese Boat People started from scratch when they immigrated to Western countries, but they often surpassed their host population in terms of success in just one generation.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 16, 2021)

@SyphenFreht @Xzi You two are so incredibly far gone and brainwashed into thinking some really fucked up shit that doesn't even exist. Pulling theories about me out of thin air and using them in your arguments as if they have even an ounce of validity to them. Must be nice to live your life in a dream bubble and use fairy tales to make your points. I'm done with both of you. Good riddance.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> @SyphenFreht @Xzi You two are so incredibly far gone and brainwashed into thinking some really fucked up shit that doesn't even exist. Pulling theories about me out of thin air and using them in your arguments as if they have even an ounce of validity to them. Must be nice to live your life in a dream bubble and use fairy tales to make your points. I'm done with both of you. Good riddance.


From our past conversations all I know is that you claimed to be supportive of BLM previously, but then _something_ happened to change your viewpoint.  You're more than welcome to clarify what that something is if you don't want people filling in the blanks for themselves.  It's also worth noting that I specifically said, "I'm sorry *IF*..." rather than making any definitive statement about your experiences.


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Culture and race are linked to a significant extend.


Sorry, but this is the point - where someone should seriously consider banning you for racism.

All the pussy-footing around the fact that you'll try to make racial arguments against overwhelming evidence, that the main factor of "violent crimes" is weather a (subsection of) society is functioning or not.

So the good japanese, who in their own right can (and tend to) be ultra nationalistic, are just such a swell population of people that learned to suppress their emotions in everyday public live - because of race -- not because of a lack of space, and necessity, but because of genes.

At some point its just eff you racist uncle, I'm sorry.

Please - I think I interrupted you feeling superior for something you are born with. So glad, that you won that lottery and now are a normal human being.

I mean eff this line of arguing, really -- go home.

(Because the far-right is known to be so calm and collected and  masterrace superior in emotions, and not at all angry because of social factors mostly. Which is why in germany they have their main centers in "failed states" that didnt saw economic development for decades.)


----------



## Zajumino (Oct 16, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Crime rates among poor African Americans are higher than among poor Whites (which are higher than among poor East Asians).


Can you give me some sources for this?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And by supporting BLM you are making it worse.


I am not sure where this came from, but for the record, I do not support BLM. Many different people claim to support or be a part of BLM for many different reasons, and so I find it inappropriate to over-generalize their beliefs. The larger any given group is, the more ridiculous people there are in it.
As for the group as a whole, I find their actions to be counter-productive. They cause a bunch of problems, but I do not see significant positive impacts. For example, it could be said that the movement decreases trust in police among black populations, which would result in more deaths due to lack of cooperation and less policing. Violent or destructive protests harm the economy of the places where they occur, which, due to the racial nature of the incidents, often happen to have many black people living there. Rather than standing around protesting all day, I think their efforts would be better spent addressing more tangible problems, like improving education in areas with large black populations, for example.

But what really makes them irredeemable is what they did to Mario. Completely unforgivable.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> and declare math and punctuality as white-supremacist.


Somehow, I feel like the people who say these things aren't very good at math.


----------



## Dakitten (Oct 16, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> @SyphenFreht @Xzi You two are so incredibly far gone and brainwashed into thinking some really fucked up shit that doesn't even exist. Pulling theories about me out of thin air and using them in your arguments as if they have even an ounce of validity to them. Must be nice to live your life in a dream bubble and use fairy tales to make your points. I'm done with both of you. Good riddance.


Y'know, this kind of statement always gets me... "OMG, sheeple, you've been brainwashed so much, you can't even look at things in front of you! Sure you have charts and data and facts and obviously are bringing up points that have a lot of credible relation to historical documentation that I also agree on, but mine is the realm of truth and you're just living in a fairy tale that is leaking into my truth sphere made out of soap film that is totally not a bubble and making the otherwise sensible and easy to fix world I live in darker!" Those who live in glass houses, or bubbles in this case...

Also, because this thread seems to have descended completely into dogs barking at the dark... CRITICAL RACE THEORY WOULD HAVE SAVED DUDE FROM EMBARRASSMENT WITH HIS INAPPROPRIATE STICKER!


----------



## XDel (Oct 16, 2021)

The tolerant are almost always intolerant.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 16, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Y'know, this kind of statement always gets me... "OMG, sheeple, you've been brainwashed so much, you can't even look at things in front of you! Sure you have charts and data and facts and obviously are bringing up points that have a lot of credible relation to historical documentation that I also agree on, but mine is the realm of truth and you're just living in a fairy tale that is leaking into my truth sphere made out of soap film that is totally not a bubble and making the otherwise sensible and easy to fix world I live in darker!" Those who live in glass houses, or bubbles in this case...
> 
> Also, because this thread seems to have descended completely into dogs barking at the dark... CRITICAL RACE THEORY WOULD HAVE SAVED DUDE FROM EMBARRASSMENT WITH HIS INAPPROPRIATE STICKER!



You too. The less complete garbage, hypocritical, and pure stupidity posts I have to look at the better. Buh-bye now.



XDel said:


> The tolerant are almost always intolerant.



Isn't that the truth. Thankfully I can keep adding the closet intolerant to my ignore list.


----------



## Dakitten (Oct 16, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You too. The less complete garbage, hypocritical, and pure stupidity posts I have to look at the better. Buh-bye now.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the truth. Thankfully I can keep adding the closet intolerant to my ignore list.


"You guys are intolerant, rather than discussing our different opinions and sharing civil discourse, I will not tolerate seeing your posts anymore! Hypocrites!"

Irony intensifies...


----------



## Dakitten (Oct 16, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You too. The less complete garbage, hypocritical, and pure stupidity posts I have to look at the better. Buh-bye now.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the truth. Thankfully I can keep adding the closet intolerant to my ignore list.


"You guys are intolerant, rather than discussing our different opinions and sharing civil discourse, I will not tolerate seeing your posts anymore! Hypocrites!"

Irony intensifies...


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 17, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> Can you give me some sources for this?


The youtube debater "Destiny" recently had to admit in a live debate, that poor Whites commit less violent crimes than poor Blacks. Since I am living in China, I have difficulty looking up sources. Even the non-banned websites have Chinese versions (bing.com) and function differently. That said, you can have a look at this website:
https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/race-poverty-and-crime/
You cannot dispute it by simply saying you do not trust it. You would have to go into its many sources for this article and refute them.
I also invite you to make a trip into poor neighborhoods of predominantly Black inhabitants and see whether you get robbed or beaten. And then do the same in other neighborhoods like trailer parks. If you do this often enough, you can make statistics about it. Have fun and bring a gun.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 17, 2021)

notimp said:


> So the good japanese, who in their own right can (and tend to) be ultra nationalistic, are just such a swell population of people that learned to suppress their emotions in everyday public live - because of race -- not because of a lack of space, and necessity, but because of genes.


Culture, race/biology and history are linked. The lack of space on Japanese islands and the east coast of China made more cooperation indeed necessary for survival. Uncooperative individuals were probably more likely to be excluded from the gen pool. This affected genes. Cold winters in Europe and the plague of the 14th century probably also effected the genes of Europeans to a significant extend. If culture and race were not linked, you would not see the American culture change so drastically. The original European-Americans valued freedom (religions, gun ownership, speech) above most things. As demographics change, so do values. E.g. Chinese immigrants are less likely to value these things. You think if America became 30% Chinese you wouldn´t see a drastic cultural change?


notimp said:


> Please - I think I interrupted you feeling superior for something you are born with. So glad, that you won that lottery and now are a normal human being.


You should be banned for creating strawmen. I do not feel superior, nor have I called any ethncity or race not normal. If anything, my own ethnicity is unusual. The assumption that life is comparable to a lottery ticket is silly or needs religious assumptions. I am the result of my parents. My parents do not come from China or Africa. So the chance of my being Chinese or African was 0.

@mods: I am sorry for double posting.


----------



## Deleted member 545096 (Oct 17, 2021)

They get so offended by someone peacefully showing support for our police, but I bet they expect a police officer to show up if they call 911 if they were ever in danger. I'm also certain they cheered on those morons who were burning cities and pretending it was for "racial injustice". What a screwed up world we live in, huh?


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Oct 17, 2021)

UnsignedDriver said:


> They get so offended by someone peacefully showing support for our police, but I bet they expect a police officer to show up if they call 911 if they were ever in danger. I'm also certain they cheered on those morons who were burning cities and pretending it was for "racial injustice". What a screwed up world we live in, huh?


The person in the video actually assaulted a police officer last year


----------



## AncientBoi (Oct 17, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> Police are literally killing people and often getting away with it, they don’t need more support and they deserve to be called out for their abuse. Even the best cop is likely to still have a shitty track record. Support shouldn’t come from hijacking another movement, it should come from making reform, more training, being held accountable, more monitoring, and so much more. Blind support is the reason why the police have become the problem


----------



## Zajumino (Oct 18, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Culture, race/biology and history are linked. The lack of space on Japanese islands and the east coast of China made more cooperation indeed necessary for survival. Uncooperative individuals were probably more likely to be excluded from the gen pool. This affected genes. Cold winters in Europe and the plague of the 14th century probably also effected the genes of Europeans to a significant extend. If culture and race were not linked, you would not see the American culture change so drastically. The original European-Americans valued freedom (religions, gun ownership, speech) above most things. As demographics change, so do values. E.g. Chinese immigrants are less likely to value these things. You think if America became 30% Chinese you wouldn´t see a drastic cultural change?


You are doing it again.

Differences in human behavior are almost entirely the product of environmental factors rather than genetics. This is well established. Generally speaking, people behave in certain ways because they are socialized to do so.

If what you are saying is true, then Ideocracy would be reality.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 18, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> You are doing it again.
> 
> Differences in human behavior are almost entirely the product of environmental factors rather than genetics. This is well established. Generally speaking, people behave in certain ways because they are socialized to do so.
> 
> If what you are saying is true, then Ideocracy would be reality.


It is not well established at all. Genes play a more important role. Twin studies have shown it.
Furthermore, the environmental factors are often not even environmental but genetic. The parents are made up of genes, so it makes no sense to count parental care as "environment".


----------



## notimp (Oct 18, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is not well established at all. Genes play a more important role. Twin studies have shown it.


Are you mad?

Links.

Racist uncle, quit stiring up people with BS.

For reference, I showed that "person" the macro level of "violent crimes per country", where the largest factors of difference are working society, or not - and "civil war in the past ten years, yes/no" -- with a fluctuation range of several hundred percent in the same contintents.

And cherryboy is leading young people in here to go for the micro -- no, no - twin studies will prove agression potental, one twin at a time.

This is becoming desperate.

I'd say racists, find another playground or start to sh't the heck up.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/second

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...namic-genome/99A7F08F3A5D6E4FE4EA91CBF23D4E68

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3696520/

The freaking bulls*t in here...


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 18, 2021)

notimp said:


> For reference, I showed that "person" the macro level of "violent crimes per country", where the largest factors of difference are working society [...]


Answer this simple question: Is it easier or harder to form a working society with a low IQ population (vs a high IQ population)? The not-working society of North Korea is developing nuclear weapons after being completely annihilated nearly 70 years ago. The not-working society of Haiti has a tradition of eating mud cakes, 200 years after their revolution.. Look it up. Your macro comparison showed a clear tendency of lower crime rates in East Asian countries and in Western countries (i.e. countries of European origin). A better comparison - as I stated - are data sets which compare population groups within a country. *Show me ONE country in which ordinary Subsaharan Africans do better in society (less crimes, more success) than ordinary East Asians (i.e. people who have lived in a country for generations). If I am wrong, you should be able to find at least the exception to the rule.*

By the way, you should read the content of links before posting them. Don´t embarrass yourself, dear nephew.


----------



## notimp (Oct 18, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Answer this simple question: Is it easier or harder to form a working society with a low IQ population (vs a high IQ population)? The not-working society of North Korea is developing nuclear weapons after being completely annihilated nearly 70 years ago. The not-working society of Haiti has a tradition of eating mud cakes, 200 years after their revolution.. Look it up. Your macro comparison showed a clear tendency of lower crime rates in East Asian countries and in Western countries (i.e. countries of European origin). A better comparison - as I stated - are data sets which compare population groups within a country. *Show me ONE country in which ordinary Subsaharan Africans do better in society (less crimes, more success) than ordinary East Asians (i.e. people who have lived in a country for generations). If I am wrong, you should be able to find at least the exception to the rule.*
> 
> By the way, you should read the content of links before posting them. Don´t embarrass yourself, dear nephew.


Doesnt matter.

Capacity isnt the only metric to optimize for.

You need good stories.

Cant have them with "you are born this way". No out. No choice.


----------



## Haloman800 (Oct 18, 2021)

Reminder that black people are 13% of the USA population, yet they commit over half of all murders. Unarmed black people are killed _per capita_ at a lower number than unarmed white people.

#PoliceLivesMatter.


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## Dakitten (Oct 18, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> Reminder that black people are 13% of the USA population, yet they commit over half of all murders. Unarmed black people are killed _per capita_ at a lower number than unarmed white people.
> 
> #PoliceLivesMatter.


When did gbatemp become a dump posting site for the neo nazi movement? I find it all kinds of funny that Critical Race Theory is sorely lacking with a lot of these posts~

Fun Fact! CRT is looking at the factors that cause the disparity, and seeing that it isn't genetics but environmental factors over a period of time that have caused the issue. Sorry white/east asian supremacists, you aren't supermen.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> Reminder that black people are 13% of the USA population, yet they commit over half of all murders. Unarmed black people are killed _per capita_ at a lower number than unarmed white people.
> 
> #PoliceLivesMatter.


"More white people are killed by police than black people, which is why I, a white person, am required to be a bootlicker."


----------



## SyphenFreht (Oct 18, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> Reminder that black people are 13% of the USA population, yet they commit over half of all murders. Unarmed black people are killed _per capita_ at a lower number than unarmed white people.
> 
> #PoliceLivesMatter.




https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2019&rdoGroups=1&rdoData=c

How many murders?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 19, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Sorry white/east asian supremacists, you aren't supermen.


I am neither, nor a Neo Nazi. Attack the argument: Show me one country where the pattern of crime and societal success is reversed. It is not defeatism as notimp suggests. Imagine you were an African American today. Which narrative would be more positive for your development?
1) You live in a white supremacist country. You can´t make it because of Whitey and their goons, the police
2) You are statistically less likely to succeed in school
If I was African American, (1) would cause me to hate my country, commit crimes and feel justified when I target white people. (2) would encourage me to prove the statistic wrong or persue other things. These other things could be crime, but it is the job of the state to discourage it. America is now doing the opposite by blaming the police and "defunding" them. Couple that with (1) and you have a recipe for disaster, as we can see in Minneapolis right now: police shortage and crime going up significantly. Good job, you guys.


----------



## Zajumino (Oct 19, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is not well established at all. Genes play a more important role. Twin studies have shown it.
> Furthermore, the environmental factors are often not even environmental but genetic. The parents are made up of genes, so it makes no sense to count parental care as "environment".


First, let's get our definitions straight. When I say genes, I mean DNA. The environment is basically everything else, or everything that you would interact with. Also, there is a somewhat subtle difference between race and biology that you may not be aware of: biology depends on genetics or physical traits, while race is an identity or category assigned by society.

What I said before was not correct in all contexts. In the context of your previous statement, however, it did apply, since values and culture are things that are socially inherited. For example, let's take your point about Chinese immigrants. American values would change, not due to changes in the population's genes, but because of social interactions between immigrants and the original population. Likewise, the culture of the immigrants would change due to these interactions.

Generally speaking, I would be wrong (to a varying extent). The influence of genetic and environmental factors can vary based on the type of behavior. What I said was too deterministic to be true outside of that particular context.

For better information, read these, as opposed to listening to me spew random crap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_genetics

https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/64_2_4_0.pdf


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 19, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> First, let's get our definitions straight. When I say genes, I mean DNA. The environment is basically everything else, or everything that you would interact with.


I know how studies usually define environment. I just want to point out it is often genes we are talking about. Unless you are willing to steal African-American children away from their mothers, they will depend on the genes of their parents (e.g. whether the father is absent, which is more likely in more matriarchal societies, which are more common in Africa and South America; though one case exists in China as well). Even the fact that African-American skin often does not get enough sunshine to produce sufficient levels of vitamin D in Chicago is, in the end, a genetic question.



Zajumino said:


> Also, there is a somewhat subtle difference between race and biology that you may not be aware of: biology depends on genetics or physical traits, while race is an identity or category assigned by society.


I am aware. Maybe you are not aware that our categorizing does not negate the reality of it. Whether we define orange as red or yellow does not change the reality of orange. There can never be a perfect description of race (nor of what a chair, child or chin is), but as long as it is useful to describe reality, it will be in use. We should strive to be more exact. I don´t like the terms "Black" and "White". "Asian" is also too broad and means different things to different people. It is better to speak of Central Asians, South Asians, South-East Asians, (North)East Asians etc.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 19, 2021)

I’d end this chapter of the discussion while everyone’s ahead. Being black doesn’t make you a criminal, but growing up in a culture that glorifies criminal activity and suffering from socio-economic issues sure can. While it is true that behaviour is a mix of nature and nurture, biological determinism is not a solid argument. There’s a lot to be said about IQ being a heritable characteristic and an excellent (or rather, best) predictor of life success, but comparing IQ’s in Sub-Saharan Africa where large swathes of the population are malnourished (which heavily affects mental development, especially over long stretches of time) to IQ’s in developed countries is inherently unfair. If you wanted to make a fair comparison, you’d be comparing crime rates in majority black neighbourhoods in the 1960’s versus now, or something along those lines. With that being said, the entire discussion is off-topic and has nothing to do with the sticker debacle. The problem you’re all discussing is multifaceted and complex. I doubt there’s one person in this entire thread who could make a valuable contribution, and I don’t think it belongs here to begin with - not in this thread and not on this site. If anyone has any *brief* closing statement before we move on, y’all get one chance.


Zajumino said:


> If what you are saying is true, then Ideocracy would be reality.


You’re posting in Poltemp, we only follow Idiocracy here.


----------



## notimp (Oct 20, 2021)

Also - lets do a posting to risk perception as well.

As the US have a way of making their people look like suggestible idiots, here is the "Roll of Heroes 2020":





src: https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020

i.e. officers killed on duty.

Total number of officers in the US is about 700.000. And lets say 70 of those deaths are homicide related 45+13 (All Gunfire, and all vehicular assault), lets round that up to 70.

That puts the risk to 700.000:70, or 10 per 100.000 to be killed on duty by someone else, per year.

Lets focus on black people, like the posters in here looove to do. Lets apply the general homicide rate in the US population ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ ) to police officers killed on duty - and lets attribute half (!) of all killings by "unknown race" to black people as well, and we'll end up at 33% of all officers killed "killed by someone kinda black".

Apply that to the general risk, and we end up at 3 per 100.000.

So lets compare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

Police officers are three times more likely to be killed by aids (world wide statistics, so - ok, not the best comparative), three times more likely to be killed by dounuts (high blood pressure) and even a little more likely to be killed by rheumatic heart decease (as someone in the general population), than being killed by a black guy. And here we are extremely tough on black people, because we are assuming a bunch of (known unknown) factors to be in play to the detriment of black people in our calculation.

So if you see a police officer in the US, and want to save his/her life - how about slamming that donut out of his/her hand and then running away?

Or even better, more flipping training on the force - not to "pfeel like a proper US Sherriff" - because in Germany the chance of being killed by assault as a police officer is

1,5 per 100.000 in total, compared to the US rate of 10 per 100.000 - so lets say, your society has room to improve.
(And thats a high figure for germany, because I extrapolated the police killing rate of Berlin (17 police officers killed on duty, in Berlin, since the end of WW2 (src: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewalt_gegen_Polizisten )) to be that of overall germany, to get to that number.)

Also - Germany has  half the number of police officers as the US, despite being four times smaller (population wise) -- which means again, the US effing sucks at social services and could do with about twice as many cops, if they would want to call themselves a "civilized society", and not compensate that with "gun power", the trusty friend of every police officer.

edit: There is a thought error somewhere in here in terms of accumulated risk, depending on general fluctuation rate in the police force. Meaning, 10 officers per 100.000 are killed in the US every year (by someone else), while the risk of dying from rheumatic heart decease is 3.7 (per 100.000) and of high blood pressure is 12.3 (per 100.000) overall. So I didnt calculate "accumulated risk" (cumulative incidence) over active duty years. Not sure how that pans out (how many years in active, active duty for the individual...).

https://sphweb.bumc.bu.edu/otlt/mph-modules/ep/ep713_diseasefrequency/ep713_diseasefrequency4.html
-

edit2: Oh, and logging workers lives matter tooO! And Taxi driver lives!




src: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-chance-of-being-killed-as-a-police-officer

Does someone have the white supremacist facebook groups handy for one of those groups, by any chance?

Any T-shirts I could wear in the multicultural room for them? Maybe on etsy...


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## Zajumino (Oct 20, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I know how studies usually define environment. I just want to point out it is often genes we are talking about. Unless you are willing to steal African-American children away from their mothers, they will depend on the genes of their parents (e.g. whether the father is absent, which is more likely in more matriarchal societies, which are more common in Africa and South America; though one case exists in China as well). Even the fact that African-American skin often does not get enough sunshine to produce sufficient levels of vitamin D in Chicago is, in the end, a genetic question.


I think one reason 'the environment' is typically defined the way it is would be that it can be changed. In contrast, after someone is born, their genes stay the same. With regards to parents, they usually have similar genes, but since they are also affected by the environment, it would be difficult to determine what comes from where.

There is an idea out there called 'social reproduction' that I think fits what you are trying to say. I actually wrote a paper on it for a sociology class.



Foxi4 said:


> If anyone has any *brief* closing statement before we move on, y’all get one chance.


I like stickers, and I am glad to live in a country that protects my right to stick them on stuff.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Oct 20, 2021)

What a complex issue, I'm sure these replies will be sensible and address the situation well


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## subcon959 (Oct 20, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> First, let's get our definitions straight. When I say genes, I mean DNA. The environment is basically everything else, or everything that you would interact with. Also, there is a somewhat subtle difference between race and biology that you may not be aware of: biology depends on genetics or physical traits, while race is an identity or category assigned by society.



Interestingly enough, when I went to school (a long time ago admittedly) race was not defined socially at all. It was only mentioned in a science class and the races we were told existed were Caucasian, Negroid and Mongoloid (I might be forgetting one).

Edit: I probably should've been more specific, it was an anatomy class. It always confused me to hear Americans use Caucasian to only mean white, since it includes about a billion Indian people too.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 20, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> but comparing IQ’s in Sub-Saharan Africa where large swathes of the population are malnourished (which heavily affects mental development, especially over long stretches of time) to IQ’s in developed countries is inherently unfair.


That´s why I suggested to compare groups within countries (not specifically about IQ but success in school or at work or crime rates). My challenge still stands: anyone is welcome to show me any country in which the pattern is reversed. If men are faster average runners in every country on earth, perhaps there is a reason for it. Perhaps women aren´t slower because of injustice. That doesn´t mean we should stop trying to make them faster (not that running speed in important, it is just allegory). I have to disagree that this discussion is off topic. The students were triggered by a sticker supporting the police. That´s because they assume African-Americans are victims. This only exists due to the naive belief that all groups of people score the same on any given metric.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 20, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> That´s why I suggested to compare groups within countries (not specifically about IQ but success in school or at work or crime rates). My challenge still stands: anyone is welcome to show me any country in which the pattern is reversed. If men are faster average runners in every country on earth, perhaps there is a reason for it. Perhaps women aren´t slower because of injustice. That doesn´t mean we should stop trying to make them faster (not that running speed in important, it is just allegory). I have to disagree that this discussion is off topic. The students were triggered by a sticker supporting the police. That´s because they assume African-Americans are victims. This only exists due to the naive belief that all groups of people score the same on any given metric.


We’re a sexually dimorphic species, of course women are different. They’re not “faster runners”, on the other hand, they have significantly higher pain thresholds. It’s almost as if the two sexes evolved for specific functions, huh? Nobody is denying that, doing so is foolish.

I also didn’t say that there are no broad strokes differences between races, or rather, specific gene pools - if a given population inhabited a given region for thousands of years then you would expect it to be adapted to the environment to a certain extent, not even via evolution (since we are in fact all the exact same species) but via survival of the fittest and breeding selection. My approach has always been the Dawkins one - if there are differences between races of people that are of taxonomical importance then they should be explored and there’s no shame in it - the subject might be uncomfortable to some, but comfort isn’t relevant in those discussions. Researching these matters is important particularly in the field of medicine since it’s pretty clear looking at statistical evidence that different races have different risk factors. You mentioned vitamin D deficiency yourself - that’s a problem that affects 1/2 of the U.S. population, and 3/4 of that affected group are black and Latino americans. That doesn’t make them “inferior” or “superior”, it’s a direct consequence of different skin tone and melanin levels which affects vitamin D metabolism, since it’s strictly tied to sunlight. What it does entail, for instance, is different dietary recommendations to balance that out.

None of that has any relevance to the subject at hand, namely the clash between supporting or being antagonistic towards the police. The students in the video didn’t go on a rant because they score differently compared to their peers, they were “triggered” due to their belief (founded or unfounded) that the police is persecuting against them based on race. That doesn’t have a biological underpinning, and I don’t know why you’d ascribe one to it. I suggest that you don’t going forwards. In case I’m not being clear, this is a polite way of saying “don’t”.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 20, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> None of that has any relevance to the subject at hand, namely the clash between supporting or being antagonistic towards the police. The students in the video didn’t go on a rant because they score differently compared to their peers, they were “triggered” due to their belief (founded or unfounded) that the police is persecuting against them based on race. That doesn’t have a biological underpinning, and I don’t know why you’d ascribe one to it. I suggest that you don’t going forwards. In case I’m not being clear, this is a polite way of saying “don’t”.


I just explained it. It is the assumption of equal outcome. It is a pseudo-religious belief in Western civilization. Since the outcome is not equal, there must be someone to blame, i.e. the police who are racist. This aspect is the most relevant to this discussion. I have said everything I wanted to say about it.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 20, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I just explained it. It is the assumption of equal outcome. It is a pseudo-religious belief in Western civilization. Since the outcome is not equal, there must be someone to blame, i.e. the police who are racist. This aspect is the most relevant to this discussion. I have said everything I wanted to say about it.


In all fairness, the expectation of equal outcome was always bizarre to me also, output is in large part determined by the input. With that being said, I would appreciate it if the discussion steered clear of any biology-based arguments because it has a faint smell of phrenology to it. There are pretty obvious biological differences between races, or even individuals within one race, however that has little to do with upbringing. Your mode of thinking might be heritable to a certain expect, your ideals are not, unless you want to make a detour into Jungian archetypes which also seem out of the scope of this thread.


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## Zajumino (Oct 21, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Interestingly enough, when I went to school (a long time ago admittedly) race was not defined socially at all. It was only mentioned in a science class and the races we were told existed were Caucasian, Negroid and Mongoloid (I might be forgetting one).
> 
> Edit: I probably should've been more specific, it was an anatomy class. It always confused me to hear Americans use Caucasian to only mean white, since it includes about a billion Indian people too.


I suppose it makes sense to have seen it in an anatomy class, since scientists back then (around the time those terms came about) were looking at skull sizes and other such things to find biological differences between races. The shift to a social definition was probably ongoing around the time you went to school, as DNA wasn't discovered that long ago.

Also, I think 'Caucasoid' should be used over 'Caucasian' because it is more consistent and sounds funnier.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> I suppose it makes sense to have seen it in an anatomy class, since scientists back then (around the time those terms came about) were looking at skull sizes and other such things to find biological differences between races. The shift to a social definition was probably ongoing around the time you went to school, as DNA wasn't discovered that long ago.
> 
> Also, I think 'Caucasoid' should be used over 'Caucasian' because it is more consistent and sounds funnier.


DNA was discovered in 1863, by 1881 its nucleotide bases were isolated, the double helix structure was described in 1953 and by 1993 the Human Genome Project was already underway. Phrenology, the pseudoscience of determining a person’s race based on the shape of their skull, was discredited since the 1840’s, no person alive today would learn about it in school. It had a very brief resurgence in the 20th century, but was considered a pseudoscience at that point. The reason why races were described the way they were was for purely anthropological reasons, as a way to classify phenotypes more broadly.


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## WG481 (Oct 22, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> Most people are wasting their breath believing they can vote in changes for the system while voting for someone like Biden or supporting Trump. Neither will bring much change and what changes they will bring will either be completely pointless or continue the same cycle of problems. So it is kind of a bigger problem and unfortunately, the police are part of that problem. That being said, I still stand by my suggestions because they aren't that unreasonable and aren't even the most extreme of a stance that I would normally purpose.


So screw everything and go straight to communism B)


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## The Catboy (Oct 22, 2021)

WG481 said:


> So screw everything and go straight to communism B)


I wish people would be that cool


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> I wish people would be that cool


I’m very cool, and they’ll bury me with my money.


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## The Catboy (Oct 22, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I’m very cool, and they’ll bury me with my money.


I am an ancom, I literally want you to be able to be buried with your money and not have it taxed away by a bloated state.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> I am an ancom, I literally want you to be able to be buried with your money and not have it taxed away by a bloated state.


Oh, there’s definitely a difference. You hate the state and love other people, I’m an equal opportunity hater, nobody gets a slice.


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## The Catboy (Oct 22, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh, there’s definitely a difference. You hate the state and love other people, I’m an equal opportunity hater, nobody gets a slice.


That's fair, I am still in favor of people being able to do whatever they want with their money and not in favor of anyone telling you that you can't be buried with it. Your earned money is yours, you can spend it, eat it, shred it, yeet it at birds, make a money pile and flex on your neighbors, not really my business.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> That's fair, I am still in favor of people being able to do whatever they want with their money and not in favor of anyone telling you that you can't be buried with it. Your earned money is yours, you can spend it, eat it, shred it, yeet it at birds, make a money pile and flex on your neighbors, not really my business.


Are you sure you’re a communist?


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## The Catboy (Oct 22, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Are you sure you’re a communist?


Ancom, down-left, not up-left. Ancoms share a lot of similar bleed overs with the Libertarian ideas but of course, I am still against Capitalism, landlords, and privately owned factories.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 22, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> Ancom, down-left, not up-left. Ancoms share a lot of similar bleed overs with the Libertarian ideas but of course, I am still against Capitalism, landlords, and privately owned factories.


Ah, so you are after my things of actual value, just not the physical manifestation of value, as in legal tender in the form of paper, I understand.



Don’t worry, I know about you guys - Monty Python did a great sketch on it.


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## The Catboy (Oct 22, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Ah, so you are after my things of actual value, just not the physical manifestation of value, as in legal tender in the form of paper, I understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t worry, I know about you guys - Monty Python did a great sketch on it.



Yeah, the Anarchy values are there but being against many Right-wing ideas. I do tend to agree with many of the Right Anarchy values just not all of the means of acquiring wealth.


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## Haloman800 (Nov 8, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> When did gbatemp become a dump posting site for the neo nazi movement? I find it all kinds of funny that Critical Race Theory is sorely lacking with a lot of these posts~
> 
> Fun Fact! CRT is looking at the factors that cause the disparity, and seeing that it isn't genetics but environmental factors over a period of time that have caused the issue. Sorry white/east asian supremacists, you aren't supermen.


You realize Obama's Department of Justice released the statistics that I quoted (blacks being 13% of the population, yet commit half of all murders). Is Obama's Department of Justice a "neo nazi" organization?


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## Dakitten (Nov 9, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> You realize Obama's Department of Justice released the statistics that I quoted (blacks being 13% of the population, yet commit half of all murders). Is Obama's Department of Justice a "neo nazi" organization?


No, but you do realize that this is an example of what CRT is used for, right? Statistics don't exist in some vacuum, there is context and beyond that, reasoning for why x gets to y. If anything, you might want to inspect your closest mirror for the boogeyman you were asking about.


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## deinonychus71 (Nov 9, 2021)

*Sighs* Call me when people decide to address issues like education, healthcare, work ethics, infrastructures.
You know, what could actually improve everyone's lives in the long run.

I'm a socialist (no, it's not the same as communist) and even that is too much on the right for some people sometimes :/


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## indianaliam1 (Nov 9, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> I think this is where we are going to end up in a bit of stalemate because I am an Ancom and my approach to this is rather extreme



anarcho communists after real world problems exist


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## The Catboy (Nov 9, 2021)

indianaliam1 said:


> anarcho communists after real world problems exist


Duly noted and ignored


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## Dakitten (Nov 10, 2021)

indianaliam1 said:


> anarcho communists after real world problems exist


I guess dealing with ignorant fascists IS becoming a real world problem worthy of that reaction.


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## Viri (Nov 10, 2021)

All lives matter.


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## Haloman800 (Nov 11, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> No, but you do realize that this is an example of what CRT is used for, right? Statistics don't exist in some vacuum, there is context and beyond that, reasoning for why x gets to y. If anything, you might want to inspect your closest mirror for the boogeyman you were asking about.


Yes, the crime rate is higher among blacks because *gasp* blacks commit more crime.


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## phatphatz (Nov 11, 2021)

well they are police what can individual do to them


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## Dakitten (Nov 11, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> Yes, the crime rate is higher among blacks because *gasp* blacks commit more crime.


Again, proving that you need to look into CRT... Yes, there are more reported crimes by folks with some colour to their skin. Why might that be? Maybe because targeted attacks through numerous generations after being liberated from actual slavery have kept them in poor neighborhoods with substandard education and desperate living conditions? Maybe police tend to over focus on black communities because they know they'll be more likely to be called to intervene in their neighborhoods, creating a vicious cycle that focuses on established "problem areas" despite not being able to tackle root problems such as access to mental services, rehabilitation, and just decent housing and food. Maybe the culture has looked at black crime so harshly for so long, it dominates the media landscape and makes out black men to be "super predators" even though they're also the most likely to be the victims of lethal violence. There's a lot of problems, but over-policing leads to body-bags, not positive change.

But hey, racism as hard as you want! It isn't like anybody on these forums will stop ya!


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## indianaliam1 (Nov 12, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> I guess dealing with ignorant fascists IS becoming a real world problem worthy of that reaction.



For the sake of being nice, I'll ignore the implication that I'm a fascist because I think that communism is a utopian stupid idea that in every single iteration of it's existance has never worked


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## FAST6191 (Jan 8, 2022)

Follow up for the curious, afraid it is going to have to be in reaction video form (almost feels like 2012, good times) rather than the source quoted as I am too bone idle to go looking for that right now. Though does include some further interesting aspects.



Short version. The students that kicked off were found as being racist themselves (surprisingly enough a bad thing to be in US universities in what was then current space year) and had to write a little essay on not being bad (minor, bordering on trivial, punishment compared to theoretical penalties for what they were found as being guilty of*).

*granted I believe this was an internal investigation so given the troubling nature of those in past incidents (see anything but due process of law) I am not going to complain, and given the non apology/practical doubling down of their follow up (assuming that is not taken out of context) then... yeah.

Also apparently the hats they were wearing are troubling according to said video. Were these the vaunted MAGA hats? No. Clan hoods? No. Faux Indian headdress? Nope. Fishing and hunting shop? Yes. Seems I had missed an update pack for my racist symbols for while I was familiar with milk drinking, OK hand symbol/circle game, burning crosses, various numbers then this was a new one, though I suppose there are race/minority based efforts to reclaim the countryside so guess that is fitting at some level.


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## subcon959 (Jan 9, 2022)

Wait, what is the problem with the Chick Fil A cup? I haven't heard that one before.


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## smf (Jan 9, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> All jobs matter


Yeah, why do only police lives matter?


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2022)

smf said:


> Yeah, why do only police lives matter?


Medic and firefighter lives also matter. They often have to be protected by police when they have to go into "diverse" areas.


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## AncientBoi (Jan 9, 2022)

Penis Lives Matter


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## smf (Jan 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Medic and firefighter lives also matter. They often have to be protected by police when they have to go into "diverse" areas.


But who protects the diverse from the racist and incompetent police?

Don't all lives matter?


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## FAST6191 (Jan 9, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Wait, what is the problem with the Chick Fil A cup? I haven't heard that one before.


It is an older one actually.
The boss/owners/founders are quite determinedly Christian (in the 1950s American sense of the term, also confusingly for some Americans they are also closed on Sundays) and play to it in various ways. At one point circa 2012 they (as in not the chain directly but the owner via a related charitable arm) opposed gay marriage (again hyper Christian) with considerable donations over the years to causes that also opposed it and that apparently is bad enough to call for a boycott.
Over the years it flares up and down as people seek a punching bag and spin doctors on all sides do their thing (usually the pro side pointing at either quality of food or pay and conditions for the staff, which by US national fast food chain standards are pretty good actually, albeit not a high bar to clear).

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/why...fil-a-anti-lgbtq-controversies-205302238.html is a pretty decent summary if you did want to go deeper


AncientBoi said:


> Penis Lives Matter



.


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## Dr_Faustus (Jan 11, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> It is an older one actually.
> The boss/owners/founders are quite determinedly Christian (in the 1950s American sense of the term, also confusingly for some Americans they are also closed on Sundays) and play to it in various ways. At one point circa 2012 they (as in not the chain directly but the owner via a related charitable arm) opposed gay marriage (again hyper Christian) with considerable donations over the years to causes that also opposed it and that apparently is bad enough to call for a boycott.
> Over the years it flares up and down as people seek a punching bag and spin doctors on all sides do their thing (usually the pro side pointing at either quality of food or pay and conditions for the staff, which by US national fast food chain standards are pretty good actually, albeit not a high bar to clear).
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/why...fil-a-anti-lgbtq-controversies-205302238.html is a pretty decent summary if you did want to go deeper



Honestly as someone who actually enjoys their food, I still find those who grasp on to this with any offensive matter ignoring not only the fact that the founder had passed away a few years back and the current head having shown no interest in continuing these donations. But also the fact that there are far larger entities out there worth standing against because of their general dehumanizing mentality towards the world at large. 

That said its just easier to target something small and singular like Chick-fil-a, because its something most people do not find themselves to depend on. Now if you are talking about the many hands of Nestle, or hell anyone in the Pharma industry, oh boy you are going to be digging a big hole for yourself and your movement. Especially since Some of these entities are not above hiring squads to "silence" opposition. 

No one really wants to change the world for the better anymore, they just want to show that they want to care just so they can feel good about themselves. Its slacktivism in full effect just like Kony 2012 demonstrated.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Mar 9, 2022)

this thread is still going?


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## subcon959 (Mar 9, 2022)

Julie_Pilgrim said:


> this thread is still going?


Only if you keep replying


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