# U.S. pulling out of the INF treaty



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 22, 2018)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/us/politics/russia-nuclear-arms-treaty-trump-administration.html

This feels kind of surreal. I do wonder how europe is going to feel about this as well.

To me this feels like we are being pulled back to early 1980's and it seems scary to me.

any thoughts or opinions on this?


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## Song of storms (Oct 22, 2018)

Time to invest in a bunker.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 22, 2018)

so would you be in favor of staying in the treaty?
I am just curious to hear opinions on this.


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## Localhorst86 (Oct 22, 2018)

> While the treaty was seen as effective for years, Russia has been violating it at least since 2014 in an effort to menace other nations.



What good is a treaty that gets violated anyways?


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## The Real Jdbye (Oct 22, 2018)

I don't really know enough about this to comment much on it, but I will say that I see where Trump is coming from as far as Russia is concerned. Seems like the treaty hasn't exactly been effective anyways.


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## kuwanger (Oct 22, 2018)

Localhorst86 said:


> What good is a treaty that gets violated anyways?



A lot of treaties get violated.  Part of the point of treaties is to establish what a "violation" is and use it as a basis for sanctions or other actions.  It's also a basis to establish a new treaty that's less likely to be violated and/or has different conditions that makes it harder to violate.  Basically, your question is like asking, "What good is a law if it gets violated anyways?"


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## Localhorst86 (Oct 22, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> A lot of treaties get violated.  Part of the point of treaties is to establish what a "violation" is and use it as a basis for sanctions or other actions.  It's also a basis to establish a new treaty that's less likely to be violated and/or has different conditions that makes it harder to violate.  Basically, your question is like asking, "What good is a law if it gets violated anyways?"


Did russia receive any sanctions from their INF violations?


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## kuwanger (Oct 22, 2018)

Localhorst86 said:


> Did russia receive any sanctions from their INF violations?



A quick google, and I'd say no.  It sounds like both sides say the other is in violation by having short-range missiles (or equivalents) built or tested that fall under the scope of the treaty.  So, it's something of an impasse to try to use sanctions.  Since the core purpose of the INF treaty was achieved back in 2001, it sounds like it would make more sense to establish a new treaty to replace the INF treaty.  The real issue then is that Russia and the US aren't on good terms to establish said new treaty.  Also, it would make sense to include China in the treaty.

The general issue I'd say in this instance is the same as Trump with the ACA:  lots of talk of repeal but no real idea of what to replace with.  The underlying need for what the INF represents is still needed.  If there's no serious talk of some sort of replacement for INF or a move towards some equivalent, then it's clearly an unwise move because all removal of the treaty achieves is on paper removing "violations" without in any way removing the actual problem.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 22, 2018)

Localhorst86 said:


> What good is a treaty that gets violated anyways?


Aside from what @kuwanger mentions, it also holds a lot of diplomatic power. In a way, it's a blockade that prevents the US-China trade war to escalate in an actual war.


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## linuxares (Oct 22, 2018)

Can you FUCKS stop trying to destroy the world? Thank you! - Humanity


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## Deleted User (Oct 22, 2018)

At this point, I really do think they're planning to create a 1984 world. They're gonna start ww3 and sit back as they rule their totalitarian nations.


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## AtsuNii (Oct 24, 2018)

I think it is a bad plan, seeing the rising tensions already again in the world. This could lead to another arms race and might even cause a 2nd cold war if not a 3rd world war. People should just learn to live in peace together.


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## Viri (Oct 25, 2018)

Yes, time to invest in bunkers, and prepare for a nuclear war! We're all going to die!



Spoiler



Nothing is going to happen or change at all.


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## CORE (Oct 25, 2018)

Wait I thought Trump was a Russian Agent of Putin? Why would he do this.


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## chrisrlink (Oct 25, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Can you FUCKS stop trying to destroy the world? Thank you! - Humanity


 and why do we need that? if earth was a computer......it needs a Good reboot once in a while and sometimes a fresh OS install


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## Viri (Oct 25, 2018)

CORE said:


> Wait I thought Trump was a Russian Agent of Putin? Why would he do this.


He's trying to make people think he's not a Russian agent, that plans to gas Mexicans and trans people in concentration camps. Duhh! He's going to start demanding Vancouver and Baja California. Fucking Orange Hitler.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 25, 2018)

Viri said:


> Yes, time to invest in bunkers, and prepare for a nuclear war! We're all going to die!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


historically we have come very close several times and we have been very lucky that people with nerves of steel where in charge during those incidents. I dont think humanity should keep pushing its luck



CORE said:


> Wait I thought Trump was a Russian Agent of Putin? Why would he do this.


Russia does benefit out of this mostly believe it or not. NATO has come on record and have said they dont want to turn the temperature and place mid range stuff on their turf at this time.While Russia has said they will respond as youd expect by going in to an arms Race.

As a matter of fact Bolton apparently is scheduled to meet with NATO with an explanation for all of this.

I am no conspiracy theorist by the way. However this is not good overall


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## CORE (Oct 25, 2018)

The Earth is Flat (And he will make it Round Again)


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## the_randomizer (Oct 25, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Can you FUCKS stop trying to destroy the world? Thank you! - Humanity



Every single government has assholes in it, one way or another. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I weep for the future.


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## SG854 (Oct 25, 2018)

Useless comment passing by


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## CORE (Oct 25, 2018)

Wars and Rumors of Wars that's why I use Cheat Codes.


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## Viri (Oct 25, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> historically we have come very close several times and we have been very lucky that people with nerves of steel where in charge during those incidents. I dont think humanity should keep pushing its luck


Yup, I'm well aware of that. I already put my down payment on my bunker! I sure hope the internet stays on when Trump starts WW3!


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## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 25, 2018)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

I am just saying that humanity ought to be careful. this has little to do with politics or fear mongering and more with the thought that we should take a good hard look at ourselves (human beings) and think of the future.


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## CORE (Oct 25, 2018)

@WD_GASTER2  I would not let any of this Fear Mongering get you down Live Your Life this is what Media does it so you keep coming back for more it is all part of the show called LIFE.


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## Subtle Demise (Oct 25, 2018)

Nice that our government can withdraw from a treaty that benefits us, but they won't withdraw from the 3 conventions on narcotic drugs or the Byrne convention. Depressing.


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## the_randomizer (Oct 25, 2018)

They should've withdrawn from the UN instead.


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## linuxares (Oct 25, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> They should've withdrawn from the UN instead.


or earth, they can live on Pluto.


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## the_randomizer (Oct 25, 2018)

linuxares said:


> or earth, they can live on Pluto.



Wow, you really hate us Americans. I'll be sure to never visit your or Sweden. Go fucking figure.

It's nice to be so hated, I should live in the US even longer.


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## linuxares (Oct 25, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Wow, you really hate us Americans. I'll be sure to never visit your or Sweden. Go fucking figure.
> 
> It's nice to be so hated, I should live in the US even longer.


They as your government, don't take everything personal.


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## the_randomizer (Oct 25, 2018)

linuxares said:


> They as your government, don't take everything personal.



Even I despise this shitty government.


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