# CiTRUS releases Hello World POC! First 3DS homebrew!



## Annieone23 (Mar 2, 2012)

> 3/1/2012 @ 17:02 PST
> I am proud to reveal what this upcoming project is today.
> 
> It has come to my attention that there is no GBATemp Homebrew Bounty. At the time of writing the news above (~3 weeks ago) I was under the impression it would happen again.
> ...




Source:​http://3dbrew.org/wiki/CiTRUS#UPCOMING​



This is awesome!  Welcome to the birth of the 3DS scene. You knowing, barring this being complete bull**** as some people are already claiming 

EDIT: Also I know the 3DS Hacking forum here already has a topic on this, but my news is in light of his post today and the subsequent mediafire link, also, for the record, the jury is still out in that thread too so as far as I, and others, are concerned its news to me!


*Edit by a moderator for clarification:*
Remember that it is NOT a hack, and it is NOT an exploit. It's a program to "assemble" multiple files and informations into a single CXI file.
I'm adding this quote from SifJar to explain what this program is doing.



SifJar said:


> CiTRUS is a PC application. In the next version, it will be able to build CXI files, which is the 3DS executable format (think NDS files for DS, EXE files for Windows, DOL/ELF files for Wii etc.).
> 
> All that has been released at this point is a sample CXI made by the developer of the tool. There is no way to run it, but in theory once the next version of CiTRUS is released, developers owning dev units will be able to sign CXI files with their dev unit keys and run them on their dev units. [Note that these people already have access to the official SDK, so I'm not completely clear on why they'd need some other tool to build code for running on their dev units (maybe to bypass certain limitations or something, I dunno).]
> 
> The released CXI cannot be run by anyone because it is signed with fake keys, which won't work anywhere. And the developer who made it has no idea if it works because they can't test it either.


----------



## Tonitonichopchop (Mar 2, 2012)

inb4 question about when game loader is coming out.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

here comes the flood


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

..........................................real??????????


----------



## Annieone23 (Mar 2, 2012)

Nice haha! Seriously, this may not even be true but considering the response Crown3DS got for throwing up a simple HTML page with zero proof, we can expect plenty of "Is X game out?" "Does this play N64/GC/PS3/XBOX/etc roms?"


----------



## Skelletonike (Mar 2, 2012)

Seems pretty interesting, but I didn't really understand how it works and what it'll do... Guess I can blame my tiredness for that.


----------



## yusuo (Mar 2, 2012)

So for us non techy wizards out there what exactly does this mean


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

Right guys lets get cracking with that n64 emulator, shall we? lolol 

_I'm joking, I know we can't do anything yet. _


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

yusuo said:


> So for us non techy wizards out there what exactly does this mean



we may be able to soon make our own Apps

its just a tool to make things


----------



## Rydian (Mar 2, 2012)

Annieone23 said:


> the response Crown3DS got for throwing up a simple HTML page with zero proof


Exaggeration, is bad, m'kay?  They had a video and pics and shit too.


----------



## awssk8er (Mar 2, 2012)

Yes! I'm playing my downloaded copy of Street Fighter right now!!! JK...............

Good news if it actually works. Good to see some progress, but at the same time I don't want the 3DS to be hacked yet.

Even when it is capable of running downloaded retail games, it won't be as easy as it is on the DS right now.


----------



## yuyuyup (Mar 2, 2012)

I obviously hope/wish this was real, BUT at the top of that citrus page:
*An editor has asked for deletion of this page. The editor's reason for asking for deletion is:  This application is Complete Bullshit™ *
_Administrators, remember to check what links here, the page history (last edit), and the page log, before deletion. _​[/left]


----------



## Annieone23 (Mar 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> yusuo said:
> 
> 
> > So for us non techy wizards out there what exactly does this mean
> ...



It appears to me, that if this works, it is proof of a homebrew application running in 3DS mode. I really don't understand the exact purpose of this app, but if it runs in 3DS mode than that implies other homebrew can be made which also runs in 3DS mode, and homebrew running in 3DS mode would open the gate to emulators, awesome homebrew apps, and loaders!


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

yuyuyup said:


> I obviously hope/wish this was real, BUT at the top of that citrus page:
> *An editor has asked for deletion of this page. The editor's reason for asking for deletion is:  This application is Complete Bullshit™ *​_Administrators, remember to check what links here, the page history (last edit), and the page log, before deletion. _
> [/left]


Someone should test it here to be certain, if it's fake then we'll lock this topic.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)




----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

yusuo said:


> So for us non techy wizards out there what exactly does this mean


Absolutely nothing. It is a CXI (think NDS file, but for 3DS) that has been custom built, but there is _*NO WAY TO RUN IT *_(that's really important) and even the developer who made it hasn't run it, because they can't. They just "think" it's a proper CXI, and it seems their justification for that is that programs from the homebrew community for dealing with CXI files work with this file.

_*IF *_someone had the right key, they could sign it for running it on a console. But I'm pretty sure there is still no way to just load a CXI. You'd need to have it on a game card somehow. It's not like on PSP where the system has the built in capability to load PBPs from the memory card.

So in short, *no one should care about this in the slightest.*

*EDIT: *About the deletion notice: It was put there by trap15, otherwise known as squidman, a contributor in the Wii scene and a fairly reputable one at that. (He worked on Benzin amongst other things). If he says it's rubbish, I'd be inclined to believe him.

@heartgold:
No one can test it because there is no way to load a CXI on a retail 3DS and even if there was no one has the keys to sign with.


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


>


Soo, what's the verdict? Real or trolled?


----------



## Annieone23 (Mar 2, 2012)

@[member='heartgold']

This is from the 3DS Hacking and Homebrew thread:



gDan said:


> There is a talk page with an ongoing discussion where that user explained why he requested deletion here: http://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Talk:CiTRUS
> 
> 
> > This application and the linked .CXI are complete crap. The .bcwav file in the application is a mutilated .WAV file, the .ctpk files are just a series of random 0x00 and 0xFF, the .cbmd is another mutilated file (I believe some image file), and the .cxi is complete crap (just look at the file in a hex editor and tell me that's not immediately ridiculous). Calling for deletion of this ridiculous page. --trap15
> ...



So if we can get some more independent confirmations that programs like 3DSExplorer and the such verify the integrity of the files then we can really know.
If the files are fake thats certainly the nail in the coffin regarding this, but even if they do open correctly that doesn't necessarily mean they are correct/work.

Also like I said before, anyone can ask for removal of a wiki page, with or without proof/the truth.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Soo, what's the verdict? Real or trolled?



i posted bigger image

data seems legit but need more investigation

see whats its SDK is called

and rarther built on CTR its XCU

many hmmm


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

"Cannot be proven true or false until evidence is available". This situation is like holding a sandwich and saying "it's delicious!" knowing that the rest of the scene can't have a bite. In fact, he hasn't tried it yet either! He just assumes it's tasty because he added tasty stuff to it, still it could turn out to be a bad combination.

We need a loader, then we'll talk.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

this is what we are hoping to achieve


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> this is what we are hoping to achieve


And we have not so-far since we don't have means to load ROM files.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > this is what we are hoping to achieve
> ...



its not about loading roms

its about loading custom code


----------



## Annieone23 (Mar 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> this is what we are hoping to achieve



Plus proof that it is actually 3DS mode. As people have said before, anyone could mock that up in photoshop or ds-mode homebrew from something like one of the available flashcarts.

Also yeah, my topic title is a teensy bit misleading as it is but I posted this as soon as I saw it, didn't want to get beaten to the punch  That being said, if this homebrew works and a valid RSA key is used, this would allow for a legitHello World homebrew, and many more, to be possible.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

Annieone23 said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > this is what we are hoping to achieve
> ...



well 3DS mode shown in that the fact its in fullscreen


----------



## Frederica Bernkastel (Mar 2, 2012)

I just wanted to point out that this won't actually let you play commercial games. Think about it guys, it's a glorified signing tool.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Pong20302000 said:
> ...


The only way to load custom code that I can currently think of is mimicing the exact built of a ROM file. I'm not saying ROM's as in games, I'm saying ROM as in a file that might as well be on a cartridge, a .3ds file of any kind.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



the idea is to create a Signed official App that can load rom files

PSP .iso roms are loaded like that


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> PSP .iso roms are loaded like that


.iso is a disc image, ROM's of all-sorts are cartridge images, there's a sea of difference between those two. By the way, PSP .iso files are loaded via the CFW's iso loader, if you mean the Signed ones then I'm afraid you need the file in EBOOT form - no ISO is going to magically pop-up on OFW.


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucky people who have dev units can test this or play around with it, right?


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Lucky people who have dev units can test this or play around with it, right?


Not really. The devkit format is not synonymous to the original cartridge format as it is signed differently - it's like saying that people with devkits can enjoy loading .3ds ROM's nowadays - they cannot.


----------



## Annieone23 (Mar 2, 2012)

Just some food for though, but this Xcution (read:CiTRUS) guy is rather dedicated if this is a simple troll. Firstly, he has been updating the homebrew page almost every day for a month and secondly he has this very interesting post from December of last year on the n-dev forums: http://is.gd/ENI3oR

So if this dude is trying to pull a fast one over everybody he really has A LOT of free time. The 3DS Homebrew talk page for his previous news is rather in depth and has some big name players talking in it for this dude to just be a joke. One name especially jumps out at me which is Yellow8, a member of Team Twizzers!

Heres the page for that too: http://is.gd/Ng6F7E

Edit: Also this Xcution dude (Possibly definitely CiTRUS) is a GBAtemp member. I really don't feel comfortable posting his user name atm, due to everyone flooding him with news etc, but its pretty easy to piece together who he is from the posts on 3DSbrew. That being said, I, and I am sure others, would love it if he would comment upon this program for us here!


----------



## Critica1 (Mar 2, 2012)

The guy is stupid. Finds exploit and emotionally releases it prematurely without completely understanding the use of it, nor gone further lengths to see what other possibilities can be done.

People are secretivie about exploits. Why? Because companies catch on and could easily patch (unless the exploit would require for Nintendo to do a hardware change, which I doubt).


----------



## beta4attack (Mar 2, 2012)

Let's hope someone finds a use for this soon.


----------



## lenitao (Mar 2, 2012)

just think twice before releasing anything that leads to piracy because you will kill the 3DS that way...


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

lenitao said:


> just think twice before releasing anything that leads to piracy because you will kill the 3DS that way...


Y'know, like the DS got killed by flashcarts. Y'know, that best-selling handheld game system in the history of mankind DS.

Shush. Just... Shush.


----------



## yuyuyup (Mar 2, 2012)

L


yuyuyup said:


> I obviously hope/wish this was real, BUT at the top of that citrus page:
> *An editor has asked for deletion of this page. The editor's reason for asking for deletion is:  This application is Complete Bullshit™ *​_Administrators, remember to check what links here, the page history (last edit), and the page log, before deletion. _
> [/left]


Looks like this notice was taken down.  Dun dun dunnnnn (?)


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

Critica1 said:


> The guy is stupid. Finds exploit and emotionally releases it prematurely without completely understanding the use of it, nor gone further lengths to see what other possibilities can be done.
> 
> People are secretivie about exploits. Why? Because companies catch on and could easily patch (unless the exploit would require for Nintendo to do a hardware change, which I doubt).


There is no exploit. 


yuyuyup said:


> L
> 
> 
> yuyuyup said:
> ...


Indeed. Neimod has edited the page a few times to clarify/fix some stuff.

First off, you basically need the SDK already anyway - that's the only way to get a dev unit and the dev unit keys, required to sign code for running on the dev unit. There is no way to get keys for retail units, so there is no way to run anything on retail units right now. _*If *_someone had the retail keys (the ones Nintendo use to sign software for the 3DS), sure the tool could sign CXIs for retail 3DS consoles. But no one does, and no one is likely to. And even if they could, retail units have no way of loading CXIs, so regardless of whether it was signed or not, it couldn't be run.

As well as all this, neimod has posted that the CXIs made with the tool aren't "right". Presumably his analysis of the posted CXI (testing it on a console? who knows...) has shown it is not valid. His exact words are:



> This application may not generate completely perfect files yet.


----------



## Ultymoo (Mar 2, 2012)

Ooh, someone got homebrew on-

3DS. Right then, I'll check back in a month to see if this actually went anywhere.


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Lucky people who have dev units can test this or play around with it, right?
> ...


But.... it says this. If someone has access to the requirements below then yeah they could.



> To use this tool, proper keys need to be supplied. For developer-unit keys, you need to be an official Nintendo 3DS developer, and have access to the official Nintendo 3DS SDK. For retail-unit keys, don't even bother.
> 
> This tool is practically for developer-units only



It's a matter of time, keys need to leaked. Who knows how long it will take.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...


The Flat Earth Society states that the Earth is flat, this doesn't make it true.

If it works just fine on dev units then I'd like to see a photo, better yet, a video of the program working. Nothing spectacular, just printf() the position of the circlepad slider and I'm sold.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Mar 2, 2012)

So..Citrus has 3DS homebrew running on a dev unit and Legacy claims to somehow got 3DS roms running. Meanwhile the DSi laughs his ass off.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> It's a matter of time, keys need to leaked. Who knows how long it will take.


_*NO ONE HAS THE KEYS THAT WOULD BE NEEDED TO RUN CODE ON A RETAIL 3DS*_

Is that clear enough for you? No one other than Nintendo has, or has ever had, or most likely *will* ever have, the keys for signing code for retail 3DS units. Developers have the keys for their dev units, sure, but that is no good for anyone with a retail console. (I wonder how many times this has to be said???)

@[member='Foxi4']
The stuff you are completely disregarding was posted by neimod over at the 3dbrew wiki. I would not take it lightly to be honest.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> @[member='Foxi4']
> The stuff you are completely disregarding was posted by neimod over at the 3dbrew wiki. I would not take it lightly to be honest.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not red-lighting the whole thing and I'm not calling it fake, I'd just love to see it working. That takes time, and I'm willing to wait just to see who was "right" about the issue.


----------



## heartgold (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > It's a matter of time, keys need to leaked. Who knows how long it will take.
> ...


That's all good, where did i mention retail units in my post? I was referring to dev units as well. 

i.e someone may have gotten hold of such equipment by chance, but needs keys etc.


----------



## XXLANCEXX (Mar 2, 2012)

I'ts finding the keys just like finding the PS3 keys all over again imo


----------



## shakirmoledina (Mar 2, 2012)

usually it takes a nudge to get things started. crown was more like "we are done now wait". this is more like "we think we might have got an idea" hence ppl move forward from there.

what i remember is the math (ps3 dev) was talking about when he said he decrypted 3.7 game (if i am not mistaken) but never released the code. someone (or some people) came forward to test his theory and called it "trolling".
if u release something, it can be considered credible or at least a good attempt.

this is better than nothing that is happening for the 3ds at the moment.


----------



## raulpica (Mar 2, 2012)

Xcution said:
			
		

> I understand some of the misinformed users of gbatemp may think this is developer-only but in fact it can be retail signed, provided the right RSA keys.


Dear Xcution, 
we're not misinformed, it's just that as there's no RSA key publicly available, it's just for dev-units anyway.

Sincerely,
GBAtemp


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Mar 2, 2012)

So, I may have gotten yelled at for this in the vita homebrew thread, but here I think we can ageeecalling this the first homebrew is very misleading. It's a file that may or may not do anything that nobody can actually run.  Its a potentially exciting step that may lead to something cool, but right now its just sort of there.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> That's all good, where did i mention retail units in my post? I was referring to dev units as well.
> 
> i.e someone may have gotten hold of such equipment by chance, but needs keys etc.


Anyone who has a dev unit has the keys they need. There is zero point in the keys being made public as they would be of zero use to anyone else and it would just give noobs false hope.




XXLANCEXX said:


> I'ts finding the keys just like finding the PS3 keys all over again imo


This is nothing like the PS3. In the PS3, the keys could be calculated because Sony screwed up implementing the signing algorithm. It is unlikely Nintendo will have done anything similar, especially seeing as on the PS3 it was brought to light so companies will be more mindful of that sort of thing now. Bear in mind that the PS3 is the only (?) console ever to have had it's private keys released publicly. There is little to no chance that the keys for signing a CXI for a retail unit will *EVER* be released to the public. Or even discovered by hackers. And regardless of this, as I have said several times in this thread already, there is *no way to run CXI files on a retail 3DS anyway.* Regardless of keys.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

XXLANCEXX said:


> I'ts finding the keys just like finding the PS3 keys all over again imo


Only the PS3 keys weren't found, they were stolen.


----------



## loco365 (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > It's a matter of time, keys need to leaked. Who knows how long it will take.
> ...


It'd be as funny as hell if the dev keys were the same as the retail keys.

I'd like to see a video on how this was ran. After that, I'd like to see some way this will load on a retail system. Then I'll be satisfied.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> XXLANCEXX said:
> 
> 
> > I'ts finding the keys just like finding the PS3 keys all over again imo
> ...


No, they weren't. Or if you're trying to make a joke, try harder 


Team Fail said:


> It'd be as funny as hell if the dev keys were the same as the retail keys.
> 
> I'd like to see a video on how this was ran. After that, I'd like to see some way this will load on a retail system. Then I'll be satisfied.


The keys won't be the same. And there *isn't a way to load a CXI on a retail system. *So you will not be able to see that. _Maybe_ sometime there will be an exploit, which _may _load CXI files (it could load ELFs or something instead, I dunno), but if so, they almost definitely wouldn't need to be signed because it's an exploit - the whole point is to load unsigned code.


----------



## loco365 (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > XXLANCEXX said:
> ...


I'm well aware they don't load on retail systems. But if I could see it _in some kind of way (Even if it's on a dev system), _I'd be happy.

But yeah. I wouldn't call it as the biggest thing ever, but it will be pretty big once something is ran on a retail system.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Mar 2, 2012)

I recall someone from TT claiming that what the 3DS needs is ramhax. No ramhax, no exploit, no homebrew.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > XXLANCEXX said:
> ...



I used the word "key" in the figurative sense, I was refering to the JIG service application which was conviniently leaked and without which, downgrading PS3's would be impossible without the use of a physical flasher, successfuly impeding the spread of exploits... don't you think?


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I used the word "key" in the figurative sense, I was refering to the JIG service application which was conviniently leaked and without which, downgrading PS3's would be impossible without the use of a physical flasher, successfuly impeding the spread of exploits... don't you think?


The JIG thing had nothing to do with keys (keys were found purely due to Sony's failure to properly implement the signing algorithm), which is what was being posted about. So I think if you were using "keys" to mean something completely different, something completely irrelevant to the conversation, you should have at the very least stated that. Or even better, maybe actually said what you meant? Sorry if that sounds harsh (it sounds a little harsh to me, but I can't think of a better way to word it, sorry).


----------



## Luigi2012SM64DS (Mar 2, 2012)

hrmm? i don't get it all i see is a pc program. nothing running on the 3ds


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

Luigi2011SM64 said:


> hrmm? i don't get it all i see is a pc program. nothing running on the 3ds


CiTRUS is a PC application, correct. In the next version, it will be able to build CXI files, which is the 3DS executable format (think NDS files for DS, EXE files for Windows, DOL/ELF files for Wii etc.).

All that has been released at this point is a sample CXI made by the developer of the tool. There is no way to run it, but in theory once the next version of CiTRUS is released, developers owning dev units will be able to sign CXI files with their dev unit keys and run them on their dev units. [Note that these people already have access to the official SDK, so I'm not completely clear on why they'd need some other tool to build code for running on their dev units (maybe to bypass certain limitations or something, I dunno).]

The released CXI cannot be run by anyone because it is signed with fake keys, which won't work anywhere. And the developer who made it has no idea if it works because they can't test it either.

EDIT: Paragraphed for easier reading.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Luigi2011SM64 said:
> 
> 
> > hrmm? i don't get it all i see is a pc program. nothing running on the 3ds
> ...



So CXI is the file extension of 3DS roms now?
Btw, I think you can save your time posting basically the same multiple times in this thread. People are going to read the first post, then maybe a few posts below and then comment. Perhaps a moderator or the OP can add your clarification to the first post.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

WiiBricker said:


> SifJar said:
> 
> 
> > Luigi2011SM64 said:
> ...


CXI has always been the proper extension of 3DS ROMs. Probably not what the pirates do/will use, but it is the correct extension. Just like SRL was the correct extension on the NDS  EDIT: (for the record, the CXI page on the 3dbrew Wiki has existed since 29th May 2011, so the extension has been known for a while, it's not a new thing)

And yeah, maybe. I guess I am repeating myself a lot...although I'm sort of trying to respond to as many people as possible. People who refuse to read  If a mod or the OP sees this and wants to add anything from any of my posts to the first post, please feel free and in fact be encouraged to do so. Maybe it'll stop some of the noobish questions


----------



## WiiUBricker (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> CXI has always been the proper extension of 3DS ROMs. Probably not what the pirates do/will use, but it is the correct extension. Just like SRL was the correct extension on the NDS  EDIT: (for the record, the CXI page on the 3dbrew Wiki has existed since 29th May 2011, so the extension has been known for a while, it's not a new thing)


Yea, it's highly probable that flash carts will use the *.3ds extension for 3DS roms. The same goes to homebrew, too since DS homebrew doesn't use *.srl, but *.nds.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

WiiBricker said:


> SifJar said:
> 
> 
> > CXI has always been the proper extension of 3DS ROMs. Probably not what the pirates do/will use, but it is the correct extension. Just like SRL was the correct extension on the NDS  EDIT: (for the record, the CXI page on the 3dbrew Wiki has existed since 29th May 2011, so the extension has been known for a while, it's not a new thing)
> ...


Extensions are like words in languages - they may look differently but that doesn't really have any relevance seeing that they refer to the same idea. (Saussure, _Course in General Linguistics_, particularily the divison of the Sign into Signifier and Signified. In this case, the chosen extension is the Signifier and the Signified is the actual content, together they create a Sign, which here is a file).

You can name a plain text file "AFile.xyz" and it won't change the fact that it's a text file, extensions are only there to facilitate opening files with appropriet programs/loaders, at least that's my take on the issue.

People use .nds simply because it makes sense - it refers to Nintendo DS. An extension like .3ds would logically be chosen for the exact same reason.

We could just as well call them .bin because they are some sort of binaries, why the hell not. This is all a matter of nomenclature that has no relevance whatsoever.


----------



## Wizerzak (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> WiiBricker said:
> 
> 
> > SifJar said:
> ...



That's what he said... just in less words.

I get the feeling that it won't be long until an exploit for the 3DS will be found.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> That's what he said... just in less words.
> 
> I get the feeling that it won't be long until an exploit for the 3DS will be found.


I wasn't arguing with him, I was expanding the idea. I don't *always* argue, damn, I must have a nasty reputation around here lol.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Mar 2, 2012)

I know that. The point is once flash carts choose a file extension for roms, then you have to make sure that your roms have the correct file extension, else they wouldn't be detected or launched by the cart.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

WiiBricker said:


> I know that. The point is once flash carts choose a file extension for roms, then you have to make sure that your roms have the correct file extension, else they wouldn't be detected or launched by the cart.


Well, we had that situation with the DS, didn't we? gba.nds and .nds were available options for unsigned code for quite some time due to certain technical issues, mainly the use of SLOT-2, hence the .gba part.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> WiiBricker said:
> 
> 
> > I know that. The point is once flash carts choose a file extension for roms, then you have to make sure that your roms have the correct file extension, else they wouldn't be detected or launched by the cart.
> ...


The extension is still .nds in both cases. But that is different, because I believe the .gba.nds and .nds files were different from each other, so that .gba.nds files would work on slot-2 cards. So it's not just different names for the same thing.

As for WiiBricker's point that you need to use the same extension - not necessarily. You could look at the magic bytes and detect that they are CXI files or whatever, regardless of extension. But yes extension is the easiest way probably. Although there is nothing to stop detection of multiple extensions (e.g. a hypothetical loader could load both .3DS and .CXI files, somewhat like HBC on Wii can load both .ELF and .DOL files - although that is slightly different as they are different types of files, but the principle is the same in relation to what I was talking about)


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > WiiBricker said:
> ...


.gba.nds files were generally a huge mess - some just had a loader prepend jammed infront of the application, some were booted directly from SLOT-2, some were just an .nds file with .gba infront of it so that it's properly recognized - the whole "system" was broken and thank god it was deprecated in favour of just ".nds" with clear booting methods.

As for the rest, I agree.


----------



## GreatZimkogway (Mar 2, 2012)

So you cannot load these files without a 3DS flashcard?  So downloading it right now would be pointless.  Still, if this actually works, that's one hell of an achievement.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 2, 2012)

alunral said:


> So you cannot load these files without a 3DS flashcard?  So downloading it right now would be pointless.  Still, if this actually works, that's one hell of an achievement.


Correction, without a 3DS developer unit. i.e. a developer only version of the 3DS that can load code, for devs to test with.


----------



## GreatZimkogway (Mar 2, 2012)

SifJar said:


> alunral said:
> 
> 
> > So you cannot load these files without a 3DS flashcard?  So downloading it right now would be pointless.  Still, if this actually works, that's one hell of an achievement.
> ...



So then this is even more pointless than I thought?  Exactly how many of the 3DS hackers have one of these/how does this guy even have one?


----------



## darkriku2000 (Mar 2, 2012)

alunral said:


> SifJar said:
> 
> 
> > alunral said:
> ...


You can buy one I think


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2012)

alunral said:


> SifJar said:
> 
> 
> > alunral said:
> ...


More then you'd think, which is quite weird...


----------



## Luigi2012SM64DS (Mar 2, 2012)

by the looks of seeing .srl is .nds and .cxl is maybe .3ds is .?64 .???


----------



## T3GZdev (Mar 3, 2012)

so when will we be able to do this?





& this


Spoiler











& i know there pics in "Nintendo 3DS Camera" but still cool concept & in 3D. 
i cant wait to do homebrew on 3DS, the DS seems limited,(or atleast my methods) & theres not much support for DSi dev.


----------



## ferofax (Mar 3, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> yusuo said:
> 
> 
> > So for us non techy wizards out there what exactly does this mean
> ...


provided we can extract our own RSA keys (assuming it's one that's tied to the machine and not the app). be nice to be able to just copy-pasta apps on the SD card though...




alunral said:


> So you cannot load these files without a 3DS flashcard?  So downloading it right now would be pointless.  Still, if this actually works, that's one hell of an achievement.


i laughed out loud. hard. XD

a lot of things must be in place before you can even consider running 3DS homebrew, but people will jump the gun nevertheless.

EDIT: double post. will merge with previous post


----------



## T3GZdev (Mar 3, 2012)

ferofax said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > yusuo said:
> ...



so if someone knows how to hack RSA & get keys it would more useful? & help with running homebrew?
or if we learned to hack RSA we could get the key? & well run homebrew?
something like this?


----------



## Janthran (Mar 3, 2012)

What does this mean, using your own RSA keys?


----------



## ferofax (Mar 3, 2012)

well, if people can extract their own RSA keys and use it to sign unofficially coded apps/homebrew, then we'd be able to run these legally signed homebrew off the SD card and they'd be recognized by the 3DS.

well, at least, i think that's how it should work out. there may be lots of other things happening in between processes that i care not to know about.


----------



## FireGrey (Mar 3, 2012)

So we have a hello world but cannot load it?
Doesn't that sound a bit pointless?


----------



## kthnxshwn (Mar 3, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> So we have a hello world but cannot load it?
> Doesn't that sound a bit pointless?


It has about as much use as a Hello World.


----------



## ferofax (Mar 3, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> So we have a hello world but cannot load it?
> Doesn't that sound a bit pointless?


correction, TC has a Hello World that he can load, because he can obtain his keys (or maybe he can generate his own, i believe he didn't specify). he said it in the first post that we'd need our own keys to be able to run it but that he has no plans on giving keys or telling how to get them.


----------



## ferofax (Mar 3, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


>


is that the fake RSA key (that RSA-2048 signature) TC used, or yours? anyways, it seems TC has faked his, so it could be he has a RSA generator that works (if he has tried it).


----------



## saberjoy (Mar 3, 2012)

ferofax said:


> FireGrey said:
> 
> 
> > So we have a hello world but cannot load it?
> ...


and dont forget that the guy has a dev unit, so even if he reveals how he obtained his keys it wont work for everyone as this works only on a dev unit for now


----------



## Janthran (Mar 3, 2012)

Someone should make a homebrew app to crack keys!
Oh, wait..


----------



## ferofax (Mar 3, 2012)

well, i suppose it IS a proof of concept. still so many hurdles before we can go 3DS homebrew.

i've no qualms about homebrew, but portables are fragile right now. an early ROM loader could discourage devs, maybe even kill some potentially good projects. of course, Nintendo could be more proactive and keep blocking any that would come out, but in the end it will almost always be in vain.

the same goes for Vita as well, especially right now when Vita is just gaining footholds.


----------



## Janthran (Mar 3, 2012)

He updated the page, it now says "This tool is practically developer-only".


----------



## FireGrey (Mar 3, 2012)

ferofax said:


> FireGrey said:
> 
> 
> > So we have a hello world but cannot load it?
> ...


That HE can load?
Yeah well I don't really wanna take his word for it.


----------



## SifJar (Mar 3, 2012)

ferofax said:


> FireGrey said:
> 
> 
> > So we have a hello world but cannot load it?
> ...


He can't load it, it says right in the OP that he has not tested it. He just assumes it probably works


Janthran said:


> He updated the page, it now says "This tool is practically developer-only".


No, he didn't, neimod did.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2012)

SifJar said:


> He can't load it, it says right in the OP that he has not tested it. He just assumes it probably works


Let's put this in clearer words without any tech mumbo-jumbo so that everybody "gets" it.

1, This guy took a typical 3DS file.
2. He looked at what it contains, more or less.
3. He built a similar file.
4. Opened it in his editor.
5. Filled in the "blanks".
6. He assumes it works in the exact same fashion.

In layman's terms though, it's like "the Big Mac" situation here. I have ground beef, I have buns, I have cheese 'n salads 'n stuff and I am quite good at cooking, but for the love of god, I will never be able to copy a Big Mac. I can come close, but it's just not it.

Why? Because I don't have the *Sign*ature Sauce, for starters. (See what I did there?)


----------



## Vigilante (Mar 3, 2012)

Looks like the wait to see if this will do any good to the 3DS scene begins after this.


----------



## Mantis41 (Mar 3, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> SifJar said:
> 
> 
> > He can't load it, it says right in the OP that he has not tested it. He just assumes it probably works
> ...


You also can't serve it up the same unless you can copy the Big Mac packaging. (See how I sort of failed there?)


----------



## Cyan (Mar 3, 2012)

As suggested few pages back, I added a quote from SifJar on the first post which explains what a CXI file is and that it can't be run on retail 3DS.


----------



## Janthran (Mar 3, 2012)

SifJar said:


> No, he didn't, neimod did.


Oh, didn't notice that. Sorry.


----------



## chrisrlink (Mar 3, 2012)

well i'll be damned but knowing nintendo the keys are 99% able to change via updates


----------



## Luigi2012SM64DS (Mar 3, 2012)

i wonder if the crown3ds team was waiting for something like this to happen so they can steal it


----------



## SifJar (Mar 3, 2012)

Luigi2011SM64 said:


> i wonder if the crown3ds team was waiting for something like this to happen so they can steal it


There really wouldn't be much point them stealing *this*...


----------



## T3GZdev (Mar 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> SifJar said:
> 
> 
> > He can't load it, it says right in the OP that he has not tested it. He just assumes it probably works
> ...



if if someone "looked at what 3DS file contained" & "built a similar file." couldn't they make an emulator of sorts for pc to run it? if they can make something to build it.
also would it be possible to run this on the crown 3DS thing i keep hearing about?


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2012)

t377y000 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > SifJar said:
> ...


"building an emulator" sort of requires you to know what's the hardware, how it works, how the memory is partitioned and (hopefuly) probably would require BIOS files and years of optimizing. Give it time.


----------



## Zerosuit connor (Mar 5, 2012)

Could recompile roms for boot of system? Either way I am hopeful something good will come of this.


----------

