# [Headphone jack] What's with all the apple hate?



## Vipera (May 9, 2017)

I'm sure you have different and countless reasons to hate Apple. I'm not particularly fond of the company myself. But there's something I just can't understand: no audio jack = tragedy

The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete. It was just taking up space. I mean, we are talking about a device that felt necessary to switch from a micro sim to a nano sim to gain those free 1-2 millimeters of more space.
Bluetooth cans are now good enough to be on par with midrange wired headphones for a decent price. I had 60 bucks pioneer headphones that worked just fine. You could say that you don't have to spend so much for a pair of headphones to get decent audio quality, sure, but why are you getting a phone that costs several times more then?

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## Olmectron (May 9, 2017)

No matter what anyone says. Just what you want.


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## The Catboy (May 9, 2017)

People just like to hate stuff and some hate becomes popular. I personally have an iPhone myself and I found that I actually really enjoy it.


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## zoogie (May 9, 2017)

I hate apple for harming the portable dedicated handheld market.
I hate apple for starting the soldered-in battery trend.
Other than that, I don't hate apple at all.


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## Vipera (May 9, 2017)

I'm only talking about the audio jack here...

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## VinsCool (May 9, 2017)

Overpriced is the only word I have in mind.


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## Yepi69 (May 9, 2017)

Overprice and no innovation but I don't hate Apple, they brought 3.5mm jacks to every other phone so far and the so much used windows we kindly take from granted today, other than that I hate Apple's fans more.


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## linuxares (May 9, 2017)

You know those horrible dual up and down keys on laptops? Apple...
You know that bugger ass OSX operating system that doesn't let you do shit if you don't pay for it? Apple..
You know that innovation they always make but just borrowed it? Apple!
You know those lovely repairability of Lenovo laptops? Not on Apple!


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## zoogie (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> I'm only talking about the audio jack here...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


Shoulda mentioned that in the title then. The OP doesn't give you license to limit discourse.

Sent from my brain using common sense.


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## ihaveahax (May 9, 2017)

as someone somewhat "deep" into the Apple ecosystem (depends what you think it means), I still think the iPhone 7's removal of the headphone jack was a bit silly. can't be that obsolete when tons and tons of devices still rely on it.

I do hope it pushes the development of bluetooth headphones more however, to make them better. until then, /shrug


linuxares said:


> You know that bugger ass OSX operating system that doesn't let you do shit if you don't pay for it? Apple..


mind if I ask what you mean? because macOS has been free of charge for a while now. Apple's been making some of their consumer applications completely free too, like the iWork set.


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## medoli900 (May 9, 2017)

One Apple a day keeps the user away.
The main reason of why I hate Apple is because we can't install any program we want, so inhibiting the fiddling.
I love to see the limit of my systems, so Android and Windows for me (I'd say Linux, but game compatibility is shit, and I don't want to use a virtual machine)


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## smileyhead (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete.


That's one of the funniest things I've heard today. It's not obsolete, and I'd rather use wired headphones than wireless ones that need recharging/batteries.


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## Vipera (May 9, 2017)

zoogie said:


> Shoulda mentioned that in the title then. The OP doesn't give you license to limit discourse.
> 
> Sent from my brain using common sense.


My mistake. I thought you could spend five seconds reading the first paragraph before posting. I was wrong. Sorry!

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## zoogie (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> My mistake. I thought you could spend five seconds reading the first paragraph before posting. I was wrong. Sorry!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


I did read your OP and I decided to instead to talk about something other than headphones since you posted a broad topic about apple hate.

Sent from my computer using duh.


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## Yepi69 (May 9, 2017)

zoogie said:


> I did read your OP and I decided to instead to talk about something other than headphones since you posted a broad topic about apple hate.
> 
> Sent from my computer using duh.


Hey bro? No need to mock the Tapatalk sentences, people who use Tapatalk (me) have that signature on by default, which means every time you reply to this thread using the app, it automatically adds that sentence


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## smileyhead (May 9, 2017)

Yepi69 said:


> Hey bro? No need to mock the Tapatalk sentences, people who use Tapatalk (me) have that signature on by default, which means every time you reply to this thread using the app, it automatically adds that sentence


It was a joke. No need to get triggered.


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## LightyKD (May 9, 2017)

Since I'm having trouble falling asleep, I'll drop my two cents in. I used to be a Apple fanboy. Hell I had nothing but Macs to play with in grade school and didn't get a hold of a Windows PC until right before graduating high school. My dislike for things Apple comes from the two: my love for Android and my dislike of Apple fanboys/girls. To break it down, these are my reasons...

- Apple's war against Android using Samsung as a proxy.
- Apple adding features to iOS that began on Android and acting as if they invented the damn thing.
- Apple fangals/boys who only buy Apple products because it's "trendy", "cool" or makes them feel wealthy.
- The damn price but this isn't as big of a deal when, Google pretty much does what Apple is doing with Chrome OS and Android but at a much cheaper price.

If you have an Apple product because you love their build quality and the simplicity of their walled garden, I can respect that. If you have a Apple product because you want to be cool.... get the fuck outta here! It's Apple's misinformed fans that piss me off the most. Actually, a part of me in hindsight doesn't mind their war with Samsung. Especially after how Samsung bastardized Android. Vanilla Android FTW!


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## the_randomizer (May 9, 2017)

If I'm gonna be honest,  the fact that Apple touts and markets their products to the degree where they think they're somehow infallible, or as being the best and nothing can ever beat in terms of quality. The price, like, with their marketing department, they give the false illusion that other, similar (and cheaper) products are inferior than Apple products.  Then there's the PC vs Mac debacle, I mean, why call a Mac a Mac when it's a personal computer? Windows vs. Mac would've made more sense IMO. If people like and want Apple, that's fine, but what I don't like that much is when people who use their products act as though owning them elevates them to the status of royalty.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

Poor people are mad that they can't afford the epitome of engineering and software development, so they sit there on their NSA infected Androids and Windows PCs slinging mud.


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## VinsCool (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Poor people are mad that they can't afford the epitome of engineering and software development, so they sit there on their NSA infected Androids and Windows PCs slinging mud.


I'd rather use "NSA infected device" rather than wear tin foil hat and use hardware I paid twice the price.


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## JoostinOnline (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete.


If it was obsolete then the overwhelming majority of headphones wouldn't still use it.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> I'd rather use "NSA infected device" rather than wear tin foil hat and use hardware I paid twice the price.


I guess that's your choice. One company makes profits by selling the best devices they can make, paired with the most secure software they can come up with. Other companies subsidize the purchase price with data collection agreements, bloatware, and inferior build quality.


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## Vipera (May 9, 2017)

JoostinOnline said:


> If it was obsolete then the overwhelming majority of headphones wouldn't still use it.


It's cheaper to make than to expect people to use bluetooth headphones.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

JoostinOnline said:


> If it was obsolete then the overwhelming majority of headphones wouldn't still use it.


The majority of headphones are constrained by the amount of money people are willing to invest in audio equipment.


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## iAqua (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Poor people are mad that they can't afford the epitome of engineering and software development, so they sit there on their NSA infected Androids and Windows PCs slinging mud.


You're why we hate apple fanboys.


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## VinsCool (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> I guess that's your choice.


It is indeed,


amoulton said:


> One company makes profits by selling the best devices they can make, paired with the most secure software they can come up with.


That works for both, honestly.


amoulton said:


> Other companies subsidize the purchase price with data collection agreements


Both do that.


amoulton said:


> bloatware


Both do that.


amoulton said:


> inferior build quality.


Again, both do that.


The only difference here, is that one will sell full price, and the other will sell at resonable price. One of them allows full customizations, that means, bye bye bloat. I chose whoever did it better.


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## cheuble (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Poor people are mad that they can't afford the epitome of engineering and software development, so they sit there on their NSA infected Androids and Windows PCs slinging mud.


People like you are one of the reason there's Apple hate.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> I guess that's your choice. One company makes profits by selling the best devices they can make, paired with the most secure software they can come up with. Other companies subsidize the purchase price with data collection agreements, bloatware, and inferior build quality.


If you were looking for "most secure software" without "data collection" or "bloatware", you'd be using an older ThinkPad with Coreboot and Linux. (Or one of the BSDs, though last I checked the BSDs still had issues with Coreboot due to reliance on BIOS functionality.)

Speaking of which, I'm looking into installing Coreboot on my X230 and X60s. Probably the X60s first, since it doesn't require a hardware flasher.


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## JoostinOnline (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> It's cheaper to make than to expect people to use bluetooth headphones.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk





amoulton said:


> The majority of headphones are constrained by the amount of money people are willing to invest in audio equipment.


Neither of these statements change anything.  Something isn't obsolete if it's what most people use.  Until something else (bluetooth or otherwise) is adopted as the new standard, audio jacks won't be obsolete.  I won't use bluetooth because the quality is lower and you have to charge the headphones.  I want to be able to use my headphones at any point.

And as for how long ago it was invented, that doesn't matter.  I'm pretty sure the wheel isn't obsolete. 

Personally, I think it was stupid to remove the audio jack.  It was stupid when some Androids did it (probably where Apple got the idea).  But if some people don't mind, that's fine.  If you don't like it, don't buy it.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

VinsCool said:


> Both do that.



Please Please Please tell me about the third-party software Apple has included on its devices to subsidize the price.


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## JoostinOnline (May 9, 2017)

Guys, this isn't an iPhone vs Android argument.  Three Androids removed the headphone jack first.  The OS has nothing to do with it.


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## VinsCool (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Please Please Please tell me about the third-party software Apple has included on its devices to subsidize the price.


Please tell me how this is even relevent. We were talking about hardware price as far as i could tell. third party apps are optional, and can be disabled anyway.

I will rather pay $300 for a phone with "bloat I can disable" instead of $600 for the same shit but totally locked from minimal change that isn't a jailbreak 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



JoostinOnline said:


> Guys, this isn't an iPhone vs Android argument.  Three Androids removed the headphone jack first.  The OS has nothing to do with it.


Exactly.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Please Please Please tell me about the third-party software Apple has included on its devices to subsidize the price.


This is completely unrelated, but I've been looking for an Apple Expert® to point me in the right direction for implementing my rom-properties shell extension on Mac OS X. Is there an equivalent to Windows' IThumbnailProvider and IShellPropSheetExt on Mac OS, and if so, do you have links to the documentation?


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> This is completely unrelated, but I've been looking for an Apple Expert® to point me in the right direction for implementing my rom-properties shell extension on Mac OS X. Is there an equivalent to Windows' IThumbnailProvider and IShellPropSheetExt on Mac OS, and if so, do you have links to the documentation?




Apple chooses not to bog down Finder with such inane customizations

Not unrelated to the fact that iOS won't allow always-on widgets to drain your already severely constrained mobile resources


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Apple chooses not to bog down Finder with such inane customizations


And this is why no one uses Mac OS for any serious work. You also don't seem to know that much about your own OS, which is quite amusing, or what shell extensions are in general.

I'm rather surprised that you're admitting Mac OS doesn't have an equivalent to IThumbnailProvider, because that means it's impossible to add preview support for new image formats.

For reference, this is the shell extension I'm working on:


Spoiler


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## ihaveahax (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> And this is why no one uses Mac OS for any serious work. You also don't seem to know that much about your own OS, which is quite amusing.
> 
> For reference, this is the shell extension I'm working on:


I'm pretty sure you can still do that (dunno about the technical side of it yet though). at the very least you've got quick look plugins.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

ihaveamac said:


> I'm pretty sure you can still do that (dunno about the technical side of it yet though). at the very least you've got quick look plugins.


That pointed me in the right direction, thanks: https://developer.apple.com/library..._Guide/Articles/QLImplementationOverview.html


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Apple chooses not to bog down Finder with such inane customizations
> 
> Not unrelated to the fact that iOS won't allow always-on widgets to drain your already severely constrained mobile resources


What's wrong with allowing options? If someone wants to add functionality that not a lot of people use then why "not allow" it?


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> And this is why no one uses Mac OS for any serious work. You also don't seem to know that much about your own OS, which is quite amusing, or what shell extensions are in general.
> 
> I'm rather surprised that you're admitting Mac OS doesn't have an equivalent to IThumbnailProvider, because that means it's impossible to add preview support for new image formats.
> 
> ...


Cool. Finder treats all files like dumb pieces of data because that's what Finder is for, manipulating files, not finding out details about the contents. You can feel free to write your own app for that.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Cool. Finder treats all files like dumb pieces of data because that's what Finder is for, manipulating files, not finding out details about the contents. You can feel free to write your own app for that.


What's "Get Info" for then?


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## ihaveahax (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> That pointed me in the right direction, thanks: https://developer.apple.com/library..._Guide/Articles/QLImplementationOverview.html


quick look isn't exactly what you're looking for (custom icons), however I still think it's very useful to have. I suggest also taking a look at https://github.com/sindresorhus/quick-look-plugins

as for custom icons, I don't know where to look, but I do know some applications do that (e.g. a vm software adding icons from windows exes).


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## DavidRO99 (May 9, 2017)

Personally, I dont hate Apples, they are a good fruit (sorry for the shit post)

Anyways, apart from that joke, you like who you want, nobody is forcing you to buy Apple or to buy Android, every phone has its problems, there isnt a PERFECT phone.


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## Deboog (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete. It was just taking up space.


At this very moment I am wearing headphones plugged into an audio jack. If I unplugged those headphones sound would come out of my speakers, plugged into another audio jack. If i want to listen to something on the bus, I use my earphones, which plug into my phone's audio jack.

You can't be serious.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

DavidRO99 said:


> Anyways, apart from that joke, you like who you want, nobody is forcing you to buy Apple or to buy Android, every phone has its problems, there isnt a PERFECT phone.


Western Electric 2500 desk phone.  (Or Western Electric 500 for old-style dialing.)


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> You can feel free to write your own app for that.


You do realise that's exactly what he's trying to do. Also. 


amoulton said:


> You can feel free to write your own app for that.


*Finder* treats all files like dumb pieces of data because that's what Finder is for, manipulating files, not *finding* out details about the contents.
I don't know about you but i think the *Finder*'s job is to *Find* out things


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> What's wrong with allowing options? If someone wants to add functionality that not a lot of people use then why "not allow" it?


 Well any piece of software that is 'just allowed' access to system resources can be detrimental to the functionality of the device and the security of the data on it. 



GerbilSoft said:


> What's "Get Info" for then?


it provides a minimal amount of data relating to a file's size and location, etc. so you can further identify files that might have similar names.


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## ihaveahax (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> *Finder* treats all files like dumb pieces of data because that's what Finder is for, manipulating files, not *finding* out details about the contents.
> I don't know about you but i think the *Finder*'s job is to *Find* out things


isn't it actually the opposite? Finder finds files and shows you details about it. separate applications are used for editing (or "manipulation")


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> You do realise that's exactly what he's trying to do. Also.
> 
> *Finder* treats all files like dumb pieces of data because that's what Finder is for, manipulating files, not *finding* out details about the contents.
> I don't know about you but i think the *Finder*'s job is to *Find* out things


Exactly it's about FINDING files not accessing the CONTENT of files.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Well any piece of software that is 'just allowed' access to system resources can be detrimental to the functionality of the device and the security of the data on it.


Are you sure you're an Apple user? That sounds exactly like someone who's addicted to Windows 10 "Universal" Apps would say after they've fallen for Microsoft's pseudo-security schtick.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> Are you sure you're an Apple user? That sounds exactly like someone who's addicted to Windows 10 "Universal" Apps would say after they've fallen for Microsoft's pseudo-security schtick.


I'm addicted to iOS's thoroughly vetted walled garden, not M$' security theatre


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Well any piece of software that is 'just allowed' access to system resources can be detrimental to the functionality of the device and the security of the data on it.


...if you don't want it using resources then don't install it?


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> I'm addicted to iOS's thoroughly vetted walled garden, not M$' security theatre


Wait a minute. Do you even have a Macintosh, or just an iPhone? If you only have an iPhone, why did you even bother to pretend to know anything about Mac OS Finder?


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## WiiUBricker (May 9, 2017)

First of all Apple says headphone jacks are ancient technology and yet they didn't remove them in their new Macbooks.

Second of all Apple likes to fix what's not broken.

Third of all Apple is a greedy corporation that leeches off of their sheep. Why would they release a cock-tease picture book for $300? Because they know their sheep will buy it and they did.

Fourth of all Apple increases global european app store prices when the value of the Euro falls and yet doesn't change the prices when the value of the Euro increases. Just shows their greed.

Despite all this, I use an iPhone SE as my main phone because it's the best small phone for me. Oh and it has a headphone jack.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> Wait a minute. Do you even have a Macintosh, or just an iPhone? If you only have an iPhone, why did you even bother to pretend to know anything about Mac OS Finder?


I have a 11" and 13" MacBook Air, a Dell Studio XPS 8100 (windows 10), iPhone 6S, an iPad Mini retina, and countless Androids. I use iOS most frequently because it's the most secure and the most consistent experience. If I only had an iPhone I'm not sure I'd even know what Finder was...


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## BARNWEY (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Poor people are mad that they can't afford the epitome of engineering and software development, so they sit there on their NSA infected Androids and Windows PCs slinging mud.


Dude, you're the literal definition of a fanboy. Let me show you the errors of your logic;
1. Macs and I-Phones can get malware too, and then you can't remove it because you don't have any *good* antivirus/antimalware programs
2. Mac OSX and IOS are both based of Unix
3. Why are you so worried about the NSA? Do you have something to hide? Not to mention, your ISP can still track your internet history if you're not using a VPN, and they are required to report it if necessary...
4. We can have our own opinions, it doesn't mean we're poor...
5. Since when is Apple the "epitome of engineering and software development?" They make computers and phones that look fancy, I literally bought a phone 2 years ago that surpassed the I-Phone 6 for $100.

Need I go on?

P.S. The only way to truly be secure is to run Linux, install ClamAV and Chkrootkit, and use a VPN. Plus, Linux only has 41 pieces of malware (around 15 if you discount all the pieces of malware that were proof-of-concepts or are outdated.) MacOSX has more than that....

P.P.S. I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out some biased logic. Just chill...


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

BARNWEY said:


> P.S. The only way to truly be secure is to run Linux, install ClamAV and Chkrootkit, and use a VPN.


Add in a BIOS replacement (Coreboot) and disabling Intel AMT.

Incidentally, since Intel AMT is part of the CPU, that means all Macintoshes that use Intel Nehalem and later CPUs are vulnerable to the recently-announced AMT vulnerability. (All other PCs are vulnerable as well.)


amoulton said:


> I have a 11" and 13" MacBook Air, a Dell Studio XPS 8100 (windows 10), iPhone 6S, an iPad Mini retina, and countless Androids. I use iOS most frequently because it's the most secure and the most consistent experience. If I only had an iPhone I'm not sure I'd even know what Finder was...


I'm fairly confident my ThinkPad X230 running a customized Gentoo Linux with FDE SSD is more secure than your iPhone, but "security" can't easily be quantified without seeing the actual systems. (Of course, the X230, like most other Intel-based systems, is vulnerable to the AMT issue. Lenovo says they'll have a BIOS update within a month or two.)


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> Why would they release a cock-tease picture book for $300?


Tim Cook Apple is unfortunately not the same as Steve Jobs Apple. Steve Jobs wouldn't have put out a $300 art book but they're still overwhelmingly molded by his vision. 



BARNWEY said:


> Dude, you're the literal definition of a fanboy. Let me show you the errors of your logic;
> 1. Macs and I-Phones can get malware too, and then you can't remove it because you don't have any *good* antivirus/antimalware programs
> 2. Mac OSX and IOS are both based of Unix
> 3. Why are you so worried about the NSA? Do you have something to hide? Not to mention, your ISP can still track your internet history if you're not using a VPN, and they are required to report it if necessary...
> ...



1. iOS as it comes out of the box only runs apps from the app store, which unlike the Google Play store, is thoroughly vetted to not contain malware- if you jailbreak your shit that's on you. Mac OS obviously permits you to run whatever you want and malware happens, but with Gatekeeper, even rouge apps that have for whatever reason been erroneously issued a security certificate get them revoked expediently. 
2. Great. That's why I love it. Unix stability with a human connection.
3. Hillary Clinton had "nothing to hide" but her legitimate email contents still arguably cost her a 1.2 Billion Dollar Presidential campaign
4. I apologize for the unadulterated snark, I just don't see choosing a less secure mobile OS to save a few bucks as that much of an 'opinion' as much as a forced comprimise
5. No, you didn't. You may have bought a phone with a processor that reports more megahertz, but Apple A-series processors paired with Apple iOS operating systems are UNMATCHED in mobile processing benchmarks.


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## BARNWEY (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> Add in a BIOS replacement (Coreboot) and disabling Intel AMT.
> 
> Incidentally, since Intel AMT is part of the CPU, that means all Macintoshes that use Intel Nehalem and later CPUs are vulnerable to the recently-announced AMT vulnerability. (All other PCs are vulnerable as well.)


Those two depend on the computer (which is why I didn't add them,) but I do agree. If those options are available to the user, they should definitely use them. Another thing I forgot to mention, they could also do what I said, but use a VM as well...


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## ov3rkill (May 9, 2017)

Haters gonna hate.
Potaters gonna potate.


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## BARNWEY (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Tim Cook Apple is unfortunately not the same as Steve Jobs Apple. Steve Jobs wouldn't have put out a $300 art book but they're still overwhelmingly molded by his vision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. There have been cases of malware getting on the App Store, and it caused quite a bit of damage I might add.
2. My point was that they didn't design the core of their OS.
3. She shouldn't have used a private email server, I didn't participate in the election because I couldn't see any of the candidates as moral. That's not the point I was trying to make; as long as you're not doing stupid stuff on the Internet, no one's going to be looking through your privacy...
4. Your comparing IOS to Android in terms of security? That's because Android sacrifices security for customization options, plus it depends on if the user downloads sketchy apps. It's in the same category as Windows in a way; it may have malware, but it also has the tools to combat it.
5. That sounds slightly biased. The I-Phone 6 runs a Dual-Core 1.4 Ghz processor, meanwhile my phone has a 1.5 Ghz Quad-Core. Even though I have to give Apple some credit, their OS is really optimized for that little feller... 

It looks like we've reached an impasse, so this argument has no point anymore. GN mah dude...


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## flame1234 (May 9, 2017)

You can't run software of your choice unless you're using a Mac. If you're using iWhatever, you can't (unless it's iMac, lol). And with the competitor it's not the case. It's not blind hate - that's the reason.
My first smartphone was iPhone 4S, my second was Samsung Galaxy S4. I liked the Samsung one better. I wanted to at least try them both. I'll never buy another iPhone. A lot of people like it though - more power to them, I guess.


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

I just can't stand all the restrictions of an iPhone. I can replace my battery, use my phone as a universal TV remote, as a wireless controller for gaming, control a drone, play emulators, and don't rely on iTunes for my MP3 and FLAC music. I can expand my storage with an SD card, and move everything on it to my new phone in seconds. It also doesn't help that apple requires proprietary cables, and ditched the headphone jack on the latest model... A real bonehead move. (Everyone I know still uses corded earbuds.) It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the next iPhone removes the data port and does everything wirelessly, including battery charging and Wi-Fi syncing to iTunes.

Another thing I hate about iPhones is the "planned obsolescence" business model. (Two years support and then dropped, after you just spent $700 on your new iPhone? _Better upgrade to a new $800 iPhone!_) At least after the official updates for Android devices stop, you can flash over a custom ROM with a modern Android version, and stay updated... Can't do _that_ with iOS. And yeah, the iPhone is far too fragile and featureless for it's price.


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> 1. iOS as it comes out of the box only runs apps from the app store, which unlike the Google Play store, is thoroughly vetted to not contain malware- if you jailbreak your shit that's on you. Mac OS obviously permits you to run whatever you want and malware happens, but with Gatekeeper, even rouge apps that have for whatever reason been erroneously issued a security certificate get them revoked expediently.
> 2. Great. That's why I love it. Unix stability with a human connection.
> 3. Hillary Clinton had "nothing to hide" but her legitimate email contents still arguably cost her a 1.2 Billion Dollar Presidential campaign
> 4. I apologize for the unadulterated snark, I just don't see choosing a less secure mobile OS to save a few bucks as that much of an 'opinion' as much as a forced comprimise
> 5. No, you didn't. You may have bought a phone with a processor that reports more megahertz, but Apple A-series processors paired with Apple iOS operating systems are UNMATCHED in mobile processing benchmarks.


1. Android as it comes out of the box only runs apps from the google play store. Sure you can go into the settings and enable installing apps (Which btw, is an option and is great for devs to test applications)
2. Linux is arguably more stable due to the amount of people who work on it together.
3. Are you running for president?
4. Please explain how choosing android, which has a much more diverse environment btw, is less secure than iOS? If there is a system that has no security whatsoever, but no one uses it nor has made a virus for it, is it secure? Android also has antivirus you can install.
5. [Citation needed]


----------



## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> but "security" can't easily be quantified


I guess that's fair. Nothing is more secure than my non-internet connected Gameboy from the 90's. It's a balance between obscurity and software availability. If I was typing documents that required a high-level clearance but never needed to be checked for grammar, I might pick Linux too, but I would still choose to run it on Apple hardware because every single iota of the hardware experience is meticulously designed for human usability.

Apple is human technology. And even though it's true, it sounds so absurdly self-important that it's met with derision, despite being the epitome of design and marketing. It's not the most valuable company on the planet because it brainwashes rubes into overpaying, it's because it is simply uncompromising in its values.


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## LittleFlame (May 9, 2017)

@amoulton I bet you think Beats are great headphones don't you


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Apple is human technology.


What does that even mean? are you saying that all other software isn't made for humans?


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> What does that even mean? are you saying that all other software isn't made for humans?


I think he means it's dumbed-down for "normies". When actually it's very counter-intuitive to use.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> [Citation needed]


1. Google Play lets adware and malware into the App Store. It's not as thorough of a vetting process.
2. Linux is very stable and very secure, and for a person willing to compromise on software availability it's a fine option.
3. Everyone has skeletons. I'd like people not to know how many nudes I swipe from my moderating gig at OKcupid. Whoops.
4. Android let's you install non-vetted apps with a few taps in settings. This is less secure. Even if you don't accept apps from unknown sources see #1
5. https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/15/iphone-7-geekbench-benchmark-scores/



lil-g-gamegenius said:


> What does that even mean? are you saying that all other software isn't made for humans?


 Yes. Android is built from the ground up to harness as much advertising revenue from it's users as possible, not to be an optimally usable platform for them.


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> I might pick Linux too, but I would still choose to run it on Apple hardware because every single iota of the hardware experience is meticulously designed for human usability.


Mind explaining how Linux on a MacBook is somehow "more usable" than on a ThinkPad? What exactly is the "usability" difference? I'm not seeing it.



amoulton said:


> Apple is human technology. And even though it's true, it sounds so absurdly self-important that it's met with derision, despite being the epitome of design and marketing. It's not the most valuable company on the planet because it brainwashes rubes into overpaying, it's because it is simply uncompromising in its values.


Apple recently admitted their overpriced Mac Pro trashcan was a mistake. Sounds like they "compromised" on their values. Never mind the historical failure of the Apple III, which included Apple's intentional crippling of the Apple II line because they wanted to sell the III instead. Or the Apple Lisa, for that matter.


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

Jayro said:


> I think he means it's dumbed-down for "normies". When actually it's very counter-intuitive to use.


That's honestly the worst thing i hate about most new devices (even new androids lately). They always make things more "User-friendly" but by doing that they make it less developer friendly.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

Jayro said:


> I think he means it's dumbed-down for "normies". When actually it's very counter-intuitive to use.


Yes it's designed for the laymen, not for the autistic outliers who need pandora's play button on their home screen or else they'll RREEEEEEEE


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

LittleFlame said:


> @amoulton I bet you think Beats are great headphones don't you


I was gifted a pair of $169 USD beats one christmas, and kept them because I didn't want to be rude... And they are very average-sounding. The build-quality (Or lack of) is also disappointing. There are even useless chunks of metal inside just to give the headphones more weight, _to simulate better quality!!! _Now if that isn't fucked, I don't know what is. I got a pair of vmodas for free, and they sound phenomenal by comparison, but also leak sound like a motherfucker...


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## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Yes it's designed for the laymen, not for the autistic outliers who need pandora's play button on their home screen or else they'll RREEEEEEEE


Quoting this so you can't edit it again.

Good job for saying anyone who doesn't use Apple products is "autistic". That's super classy.


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## samedifference (May 9, 2017)

Overpriced products with a lack of functionality + locked-down software/hardware aren't really favorable to me. In fact, the only Apple product I've bought in the past was a desktop iMac, which I definitely regret. I could've just built my own computer that would've not only been up-gradable, but also much less expensive. As for Apple removing the earphone jack from their phones, that's something that's absolutely unjustifiable. I personally wouldn't like to worry about charging my headphones, or having to pay extra to get an adapter to use regular ones. As for standard earphone ports being "obsolete", that's a bunch of garbage. After all, if something's not broken why fix it; let alone completely get rid of something that's still standard on all other devices? They pretty much did it just to be different.


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## LittleFlame (May 9, 2017)

Jayro said:


> I was gifted a pair of $169 USD beats one christmas, and kept them because I didn't want to be rude... And they are very average-sounding. The build-quality (Or lack of) is also disappointing. There are even useless chunks of metal inside just to give the headphones more weight, _to simulate better quality!!! _Now if that isn't fucked, I don't know what is. I got a pair of vmodas for free, and they sound phenomenal by comparison, but also leak sound like a motherfucker...


my friends all tell me to get Audio Technicas for my next pair of headphones, listening with them at a friend's place they sounded actually amazing


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## Vipera (May 9, 2017)

Well, since the thread derailed...

I hope they remove the home button from next iPhone as well.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> Quoting this so you can't edit it again.
> 
> Good job for saying anyone who doesn't use Apple products is "autistic". That's super classy.



Ehh, anybody who uses the word "normies" and desperately requires Android levels of control on their phones is somewhere on the spectrum.


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Ehh, anybody who uses the word "normies" and desperately requires Android levels of control on their phones is somewhere on the spectrum.


Nah, I just hold myself above the blind sheeple like you.


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## LittleFlame (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Ehh, anybody who uses the word "normies" and desperately requires Android levels of control on their phones is somewhere on the spectrum.


By that logic you're just "Entitled"


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## lil-g-gamegenius (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Ehh, anybody who uses the word "normies" and desperately requires Android levels of control on their phones is somewhere on the spectrum.


...What is wrong with control over your own device? Are you saying you want less control over your own phone?


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## samedifference (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Ehh, anybody who uses the word "normies" and desperately requires Android levels of control on their phones is somewhere on the spectrum.


Some people just don't like when their service provider starts installing bloatware and advertisements without permission; or when they disable hardware features at a software level.


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> ...What is wrong with control over your own device? Are you saying you want less control over your own phone?


That's exactly why he has an iPhone to begin with.

"iHate choices. Choose my fate for me, Apple Gods."


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

lil-g-gamegenius said:


> ...What is wrong with control over your own device? Are you saying you want less control over your own phone?



I'm saying I don't take time out of my day to quibble over cosmetic differences. Having changeable themes and movable widgets takes a toll on the processing resources available. 

It's like my vape. I could spend a lot of time and money getting fancy batteries with adjustable voltage and whatnot, but it's just not a good use of my time.


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

samedifference said:


> Some people just don't like when their service provider starts installing bloatware and advertisements without permission; or when they disable hardware features at a software level.


Just like when a software update "unlocked" using bluetooth for headphone use on a certain iPhone. Pathetic.


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## BARNWEY (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Yes it's designed for the laymen, not for the autistic outliers who need pandora's play button on their home screen or else they'll RREEEEEEEE


Uncool man, autistic people are actually very intelligent FYI.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

samedifference said:


> Some people just don't like when their service provider starts installing bloatware and advertisements without permission; or when they disable hardware features at a software level.


Oh my god. Don't even get me started on the rescinded advertised features on Android. Let's focus on the misguided hate directed at the most valuable computer company on the planet.


Jayro said:


> Just like when a software update "unlocked" using bluetooth for headphone use on a certain iPhone. Pathetic.


Added features with a software update. Oh, the horror.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



BARNWEY said:


> Uncool man, autistic people are actually very intelligent FYI.


Sure they are. They're also quite particular.


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## MionissNio (May 9, 2017)

Software wise Apple is incomparable and their optimization is off the charts really! I have used an iPhone and ipad and I can happily say they work out of the box. But the thing is when you consider that Android and Windows have to run on multitude of hardware devices not inhouse and catered to I personally think it is more of an accomplishment than apple (especially with android 7.1 it runs just like I phone) especially when Microsoft officially supports boot camp Macs whilst Hackintosh is illegal in most cases.

I personally don't like MSOFT because of their shitty practises with Windows 10 (Please stop installing candy crush on my PC I hate this game!) But the thing is I cannot live in apple ecosystem! I wanted to send my friend who owns an iPhone some PDF files (100 files) and I had no way to do so, it was near impossible to convince the iPhone to download zip files although I did manage to succeed doing it was not worth the hassle. In android or windows I would just use something like wifi direct and boom instant file transfer!

About the headphone jack I personally think apple is dropping an axe on their foot as clearly USB-c/TB3 is much superior to their own lighting port and clearly would still provide a much better wired experience than iOS unless apple decided to abandon lighting which again is a terrible decision.

Also @amoulton Apple has high qualtiy standards unlike 90% of the brands but I have tried MacBook and Surfacebook and I can definitely say Surface book despite being a convertible had the same build quality as the MacBook.


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## grossaffe (May 9, 2017)

Why are you people bothering to attempt to converse with this apple shrill?


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Why are you people bothering to attempt to converse with this apple shrill?


It's fun getting a rise out of him, and watching him drown while trying to defend his horrible choice of phone.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

MionissNio said:


> clearly USB-c/TB3 is much superior to their own lighting port


I don't know man. I mean the port has more functionality and versatility, but I just can't get over the hollow connector. I have serious doubts about it's long term durability.


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## Chary (May 9, 2017)

Please keep it clean, guys. Discussion is fine, pointless angry arguments and name calling isn't. Don't try to provoke people, either.

We all have preferences in what device we like. That's not reason to harp on someone for their choices. Do you like Apple? Awesome. Do you like Android, Windows, Linux, mayonnaise with your tuna sandwich? Fantastic. Debate the points of why you do, without causing a brawl. It's not that hard.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

Jayro said:


> It's fun getting a rise out of him, and watching him drown while trying to defend his horrible choice of phone.


Man, I could not possibly love my iPhone 6S any more than I already do. It isn't constantly losing apps to OS fragmentation, I'm not getting mysterious ads in my notification bar from shitty apps, I know my data is secure, and I don't have to worry about exploding batteries. Frankly, I don't understand why such granular customization is of so much value to people.

Apple gets hate because it's the most popular, most successful capitalist enterprise on the face of the earth- and in a true Utopia, not every kind of person can be invited.


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## grossaffe (May 9, 2017)

Chary said:


> Debate the points of why you do, without causing a brawl. It's not that hard.


I feel like you've been on the Internet long enough to know better.


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## Chary (May 9, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I feel like you've been on the Internet long enough to know better.


And I feel like everyone here is old enough to not screech at each other over phone choices like it's 2008, but hey.


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## MionissNio (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> I don't know man. I mean the port has more functionality and versatility, but I just can't get over the hollow connector. I have serious doubts about it's long term durability.


Yeah it is hollow I agree, but personally owning both connecters I can say I can safely lift my iPhone than my type c on the connector and both are certainly miles ahead of micro USB and 3.5mm headphone port. But again I have never replaced genuine Micro us cables than I have replaced genuine lightning ones (Due to thin apple wire I guess).

But you missed the point it's about sound quality not durability.


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## JoostinOnline (May 9, 2017)

Chary said:


> Please keep it clean, guys. Discussion is fine, pointless angry arguments and name calling isn't. Don't try to provoke people, either.
> 
> We all have preferences in what device we like. That's not reason to harp on someone for their choices. Do you like Apple? Awesome. Do you like Android, Windows, Linux, mayonnaise with your tuna sandwich? Fantastic. Debate the points of why you do, without causing a brawl. It's not that hard.


The vague title certainly didn't help.  Let's be honest, most people aren't going to bother reading the first post.  I doubt most of them know this is supposed to be a topic exclusively about the headphone jack.


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## Chary (May 9, 2017)

On the actual topic, Apple charging cords are quite possibly the worst thing on this earth, next to stepping on a lego. I've gone through dozens of Lightning cables, and even more 60W MacBook chargers, and even if I let it sit out on a desk, it manages to rip itself apart after a few months. Utter garbage. 

I do love my iPhone though. It's good, because it fits _my _needs. All I need is a nice device that can get LTE, read RSS, email, and load webpages fast. Apple's devices boast some pretty slick optimization. You won't be able to emulate Dolphin, but you'll have a very snappy phone that can do simple tasks faster than the rest of the bunch. 

Their computers are more of a hard sell, what with them being nonupgradable. I rock a 27" iMac, because I love how it looks, and how it's so thin on my desk, with that 1440p screen. 

But I also have a gaming PC, to go with it. I honestly detest Windows comparatively to Apple, but I can live with either. They compliment each other nicely. 



JoostinOnline said:


> The vague title certainly didn't help.  Let's be honest, most people aren't going to bother reading the first post.  I doubt most of them know this is supposed to be a topic exclusively about the headphone jack.


Oh for goodness sakes, I type this all out and you go and tell me that now! 

Re headphone jack: Apple can go shove it for removing it. There's a line between form and function, and that crosses it. Fancy earbuds that are inflated and expensive is not a consumer boon. Bluetooth drains the battery like a monster. It was an incredibly stupid decision.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

JoostinOnline said:


> The vague title certainly didn't help.  Let's be honest, most people aren't going to bother reading the first post.  I doubt most of them know this is supposed to be a topic exclusively about the headphone jack.


I mean, it's about the headphone jack Apple removed, but more broadly, the reasons Apple makes the choices it does. My main point is that they have a set of corporate values to maintain a quality user experience, and it overwhelmingly works. They're not out to squeeze every dollar they can out of gullible consumers, they're here to revolutionize computing to the best of their ability (and arguably win at capitalism) Bad businesses come and go every day and if people didn't feel like they were getting a commensurate amount of value for the money they invest in Apple products, they wouldn't keep buying them. Everybody has tried out a PC- Everybody has tried out an Android, but Apple still breaks records on their market cap and it's not because of remaining *trendy* for over 20 years.


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Man, I could not possibly love my iPhone 6S any more than I already do. It isn't constantly losing apps to OS fragmentation, I'm not getting mysterious ads in my notification bar from shitty apps, I know my data is secure, and I don't have to worry about exploding batteries. Frankly, I don't understand why such granular customization is of so much value to people.
> 
> Apple gets hate because it's the most popular, most successful capitalist enterprise on the face of the earth- and in a true Utopia, not every kind of person can be invited.


Man, that reads just like an ad from those Apple tools themselves. How much Apple payin' you to suck their dick like that?  Quite possibly the cringiest thing I'll read all day, thanks.


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## JoostinOnline (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> I mean, it's about the headphone jack Apple removed, but more broadly, the reasons Apple makes the choices it does. My main point is that they have a set of corporate values to maintain a quality user experience, and it overwhelmingly works. They're not out to squeeze every dollar they can out of gullible consumers, they're here to revolutionize computing to the best of their ability (and arguably win at capitalism) Bad businesses come and go every day and if people didn't feel like they were getting a commensurate amount of value for the money they invest in Apple products, they wouldn't keep buying them. Everybody has tried out a PC- Everybody has tried out an Android, but Apple still breaks records on their market cap and it's not because of remaining *trendy* for over 20 years.


First line of the original post:


Vipera said:


> I'm sure you have different and countless reasons to hate Apple. I'm not particularly fond of the company myself. But there's something I just can't understand: no audio jack = tragedy



Your other issues with them are irrelevant to this topic.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

JoostinOnline said:


> Your other issues with them are irrelevant to this topic.


Their hubris to remove the headphone jack is based on the company's values and their vital role in shaping computing over the past several decades.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Jayro said:


> Man, that reads just like an ad from those Apple tools themselves. How much Apple payin' you to suck their dick like that?  Quite possibly the cringiest thing I'll read all day, thanks.


They're just paying me in constant security updates for my aging hardware. I'm living the dream.


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## JoostinOnline (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Their hubris to remove the headphone jack is based on the company's values and their vital role in shaping computing over the past several decades.


You realize several Android companies did it first, right?

They can do whatever the hell they want with their product.  If you don't like it, don't buy it.


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## amoulton (May 9, 2017)

JoostinOnline said:


> You realize several Android companies did it first, right?


Several companies made smartphones with downloadable apps before Apple, but it's largely irrelevant until you set the pace with a product for the masses.


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## tech3475 (May 9, 2017)

I like the headphone jack because I regularly use various devices including those without bluetooth and the headphone jack 'just works' for me.

Ive tried bluetooth in the past but I never found it as good, had to p***around with it, the headphines werent as nice, they cost more, having yet another thing to charge, etc.

I also find Apple use of the word "courage" to be taking the p*** when they dint have the courage to use an open standard like usb-c.


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## CheatFreak47 (May 9, 2017)

Some of the people in this thread are just plain jerks.
Can we all just simmer down a little bit? I've had countless discussions about this subject, and what it boils down to is usually this.

iPhone and Apple Device users use them because they like them.
They would usually rather not bother with the kind of customization and tweaking you can do on other platforms, like Android or Windows because they think what they have is already good enough, and they understand it for the most part.

The reason they are so popular is because, at the end of the day, life isn't just about personal computing, and apple gets this (usually). They don't revolutionize _anything._ They just make a good product that happens to get the job done in a way that isn't so complex that the average person can't understand it. And that's just fine.

There's also something to be said for the security of a closed platform, etc.

Android and Windows/PC users use them because it suits their needs, and in areas where it doesn't, can often be tweaked to suit their needs better- and they often don't mind putting some effort in if it means getting more output from that effort in the long run. There's a lot more you can do to suit your preferences, needs, and desires if you put the time and effort on. To me, that makes it more human an experience, which is why I prefer it myself. (personally)



amoulton said:


> Man, I could not possibly love my iPhone 6S any more than I already do. It isn't constantly losing apps to OS fragmentation, I'm not getting mysterious ads in my notification bar from shitty apps, I know my data is secure, and I don't have to worry about exploding batteries. Frankly, I don't understand why such granular customization is of so much value to people.
> 
> Apple gets hate because it's the most popular, most successful capitalist enterprise on the face of the earth- and in a true Utopia, not every kind of person can be invited.



Some utopia, people being forced out of the "perfect society" over something as trivial as a mobile device preference.


----------



## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Several companies made smartphones with downloadable apps before Apple, but it's largely irrelevant until you set the pace with a product for the masses.


Apple might have been the first mainstream smartphone to reach the mass market, but they've been outdone by MANY companies since. Namely Samsung, LG, and HTC. All 3 of them offer  better phones than Apple, and even offer mid-range and low-range options. Apple only gives you expensive, or slightly less expensive models.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

My only gripe with Samsung is that they went from USB 3.0 on the S5, and then back-petaled to USB 2.0 again for the S6 and S7... Which is just fucking DUMB. They should have just went USB-C and been done with it. USB 2.0 is painfully slow to transfer stuff to and from the phone.


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## MionissNio (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Their hubris to remove the headphone jack is based on the company's values and their vital role in shaping computing over the past several decades.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Vital role in shaping computers? That's true since they made Disk Drive obsolete, Made the iPhone, And now possibly changing 3.5MM jack, but I think there are many things shaped by other companies too, Apple really isn't the only thing that should exist in computing actually, if it weren't for Microsoft (I have a grudging hate against the company personally especially Windows) I think very few minority would've owned a PC, they made a cheap buggy OS but it was useable by everyone not only rich people (especially poor countries).

Google also shaped smartphones a lot! Arguably they introduced the app store to smartphones first, then android was the operating system which truly did brought the capability of a smartphone for it to be as functional as a PC, truly I use my windows devices only once a week ever since I bought my Android phone, when I switched to iPhone I just couldn't do most of that stuff, I indeed AL9Haxed my 3ds using only android.


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## Jayro (May 9, 2017)

MionissNio said:


> I indeed AL9Haxed my 3ds using only android.


That in-and-of itself is quite impressive, I could have done it, but PC was WAAAAAAY easier for me.


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## MionissNio (May 9, 2017)

Jayro said:


> That in-and-of itself is quite impressive, I could have done it, but PC was WAAAAAAY easier for me.


I'm a lazy arse portability loving person for me Android is best thing I can ever own! From words docs to emulators I do it mostly on Android!


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## barronwaffles (May 9, 2017)

Apple doesn't have any 'company values' outside of the single focus they have developed an almost cult-like religion around :

Selling an overpriced product and having the consumer often thank them for the 'experience'

It's incredible.


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## sarkwalvein (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> I'm sure you have different and countless reasons to hate Apple. I'm not particularly fond of the company myself. But there's something I just can't understand: no audio jack = tragedy
> 
> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete. It was just taking up space. I mean, we are talking about a device that felt necessary to switch from a micro sim to a nano sim to gain those free 1-2 millimeters of more space.
> Bluetooth cans are now good enough to be on par with midrange wired headphones for a decent price. I had 60 bucks pioneer headphones that worked just fine. You could say that you don't have to spend so much for a pair of headphones to get decent audio quality, sure, but why are you getting a phone that costs several times more then?
> ...


I, and probably many others that actually use and like good headphones, have a range of very high quality, very expensive headphones that of course work on the 3.5mm analog jack.
It is a standard that works, gives out great quality, and the existence of this standard made it possible to make a couple thousands Euros investments in this collection of headphones.
The whim of a greedy company to make obsolete a jack that is not just in order to sell new adapters and additional products is something I could live without.
This whim makes "obsolete" or a PITA to use an investment on headphones, whose quality is far superior than any proprietary bullshit apple could come up with as a replacement.

PS: The headphone jack is only obsolete because they want to milk out the users forcing the to buy new different products. It is forced obsolecence, like apple trying to force its dick into your ass.


----------



## Vipera (May 9, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I, and probably many others that actually use and like good headphones, have a range of very high quality, very expensive headphones that of course work on the 3.5mm analog jack.
> It is a standard that works, gives out great quality, and the existence of this standard made it possible to make a couple thousands Euros investments in this collection of headphones.
> The whim of a greedy company to make obsolete a jack that is not just in order to sell new adapters and additional products is something I could live without.
> This whim makes "obsolete" or a PITA to use an investment on headphones, whose quality is far superior than any proprietary bullshit apple could come up with as a replacement.
> ...


I have a pair of good headphones too, but they also have a Bluetooth option, which I've been using on my phone all the time. It's just incredibly convenient to not have a cable bugging you when you have your phone in your pocket or even when you are walking in a room and want to leave your phone charging. I could listen to music just fine with a $60 pair of bluetooth headphones, they weren't extremely good but they were on par with wired headphones of half the price. I can understand why Apple would get rid of something that someone who just dropped $700 on a phone should not be using.

They also made true bluetooth earphones that don't have any wire and thank God for that.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## sarkwalvein (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> I have a pair of good headphones too, but they also have a Bluetooth option, which I've been using on my phone all the time. It's just incredibly convenient to not have a cable bugging you when you have your phone in your pocket or even when you are walking in a room and want to leave your phone charging. I could listen to music just fine with a $60 pair of bluetooth headphones, they weren't extremely good but they were on par with wired headphones of half the price. I can understand why Apple would get rid of something that someone who just dropped $700 on a phone should not be using.
> 
> They also made true bluetooth earphones that don't have any wire and thank God for that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


I like my headphone somewhat more on the securely attached side. The bluetooth ones from Apple are not my thing.
Regarding Bluetooth headphones, yes they are very convenient, never have the same quality level but they are really comfortable to use.
I have been using the Marshall series (MID and MONITOR), and they are quite cheap and good, great value IMHO.
That said, I prefer to be able to use Bluetooth when I feel like it, and cable when I go for quality.
Why the hell taking the option away? It is nonsense, specially when the Samsung phones are thinner than Apple's and they include the damn jack.


----------



## gnmmarechal (May 9, 2017)

Wait, how is it obsolete? And frankly, I don't particularly want a thin, fragile device. First of all, it makes it more prone to falling from my hands. Removing something I use to make a device thinner is something that really puts me off. That, and I dislike iOS.

Sent from my cave of despair where I collect souls


----------



## nxwing (May 9, 2017)

I don't really hate Apple, I just hate their decision in removing the headphone jack from the iPhone 7. The decision to remove the headphone jack and instead use Lightning Headphones and/or a dongle would make the Lightning port wear down faster. Because the iPhone 7 had only a Lightning port and because the Lightning port is now also used for audio, its lifespan has been cut short. The Lightning port's lifespan wouldn't really be a problem had the iPhone 7 had the headphone jack.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 9, 2017)

Bluetooth headphones are cool and all.. But when I'm home wanting to listen to music? Why waste the battery. Not to mention, Apple has this awkward thing with single Jacks on their devices. One size fits all, so to speak. Dunno. It's annoying.


----------



## Pacheko17 (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Poor people are mad that they can't afford the epitome of engineering and software development, so they sit there on their NSA infected Androids and Windows PCs slinging mud.



iPhones have backdoors for the CIA to just simply hack into it, and you have no control over it.
They also cost more than Android phones and have shit software ( from my perspective ).

Also, Windows and Mac aren't the only options, ya dummie.


----------



## Yepi69 (May 9, 2017)

smileyhead said:


> It was a joke. No need to get triggered.


I did not get triggered, I genuinely thought he had no idea Tapatalk existed.


----------



## Sheimi (May 9, 2017)

I did not like the idea of Apple removing the headphone jack in the iPhone 7. Mostly because I did not want to carry a external adapter plus run down the lightning port. For wireless earbuds, is about $40 - $60 and a simple wired skull candy costed me $16. Yet, I have a iPhone 6s+ gathering dust because I couldn't stand iOS even though I had a iPhone 5 before.


----------



## Dionicio3 (May 9, 2017)

They need a part they can stick multiple things into


----------



## DeslotlCL (May 9, 2017)

No headphone jack = inferior product.

No wonder why samsung is selling more phones than apple.


----------



## Gourmet (May 9, 2017)

Maybe they have wired headphones that work just fine?


----------



## duffmmann (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> I'm sure you have different and countless reasons to hate Apple. I'm not particularly fond of the company myself. But there's something I just can't understand: no audio jack = tragedy
> 
> *The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete.* It was just taking up space. I mean, we are talking about a device that felt necessary to switch from a micro sim to a nano sim to gain those free 1-2 millimeters of more space.
> Bluetooth cans are now good enough to be on par with midrange wired headphones for a decent price. I had 60 bucks pioneer headphones that worked just fine. You could say that you don't have to spend so much for a pair of headphones to get decent audio quality, sure, but why are you getting a phone that costs several times more then?
> ...



If that's true why are fantastic wired headsets still made by all sorts of companies?  They aren't obsolete, you just happen to have moved on to bluetooth.  But wired headphones are still a viable option, and still at this point, the absolute best quality sound you can get from headphones are going to be from a high-end pair of wired ones.

Beyond that, no one else is dropping the audio jack, I'll take a Galaxy S8 over the iPhone 7 in a heartbeat, hell I'd take the Galaxy S7 over the iPhone 7 in a heartbeat.  Furthermore, I have a few stereos with aux-in connections that I use all the time to play my music from my phone, sure you could argue that I should just get a stereo with a bluetooth connection, but why bother with that, when it costs me nothing extra to just use the aux-in connection?

Apple just made a really stupid decision is all in an attempt to make more money by having consumers buy their bluetooth headphones, but the backlash was bad and strong, so I wouldn't be surprised for a second if the iPhone 8 brings back the headphone jack.  If I were to consider getting an iPhone right now, I'd get an iPhone 6S over an iPhone 7 in a heartbeat.  They really fucked up in my opinion with that "brave" choice as they put it.


----------



## nxwing (May 9, 2017)

Gourmet said:


> Maybe they have wired headphones that work just fine?


Indeed there are but those cost more and shorten the lifespan of the Lightning port


----------



## BARNWEY (May 9, 2017)

1 2 3 4 I declare a flame war


----------



## Dionicio3 (May 9, 2017)

BARNWEY said:


> 1 2 3 4 I declare a flame war


How bout no?


----------



## Flame (May 9, 2017)

Windows Phone Yay


----------



## spotanjo3 (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> I'm sure you have different and countless reasons to hate Apple. I'm not particularly fond of the company myself. But there's something I just can't understand: no audio jack = tragedy
> 
> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete. It was just taking up space. I mean, we are talking about a device that felt necessary to switch from a micro sim to a nano sim to gain those free 1-2 millimeters of more space.
> Bluetooth cans are now good enough to be on par with midrange wired headphones for a decent price. I had 60 bucks pioneer headphones that worked just fine. You could say that you don't have to spend so much for a pair of headphones to get decent audio quality, sure, but why are you getting a phone that costs several times more then?
> ...



Just ignored them. They are baby. Do what you want.  They are worse than an insects, you know.


----------



## DeoNaught (May 9, 2017)

It's just preference, some people dont have Bt head/earphones yet, so they just hate 'cause they can. 
But Apple did at least add basically a usb jack for thier phone for people who dont have bt.


----------



## dpad_5678 (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete


What? Haha it's in like every electronic apart from the iPhone 7 and Moto Z. Honestly, is that a joke?


----------



## The Real Jdbye (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> I'm sure you have different and countless reasons to hate Apple. I'm not particularly fond of the company myself. But there's something I just can't understand: no audio jack = tragedy
> 
> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete. It was just taking up space. I mean, we are talking about a device that felt necessary to switch from a micro sim to a nano sim to gain those free 1-2 millimeters of more space.
> Bluetooth cans are now good enough to be on par with midrange wired headphones for a decent price. I had 60 bucks pioneer headphones that worked just fine. You could say that you don't have to spend so much for a pair of headphones to get decent audio quality, sure, but why are you getting a phone that costs several times more then?
> ...


You can't be serious.
Bluetooth headphones are nice and all but they are no replacement for a good wired pair. Due to heavy compression quality is lower compared to wired headphones.
And what if you want a pair of headphones that works on everything? Not all devices support Bluetooth.


----------



## Columbo2811 (May 9, 2017)

http://www.everysecond.io/apple

Sent from my apple iphone 7 no headphone jack edition


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 9, 2017)

The headphone jack is essential for me on a phone, TV, laptop or what have you so the latest overpriced iPhone not having a headphone jack was seriously a moronic idea.


----------



## Dionicio3 (May 9, 2017)

This video pretty much explains everything


----------



## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

Let's compare "old" vs. "new".

"New":




"Old":




I much prefer the "old" keyboard, even though the "new" one is, in fact, newer. (More key travel, better tactile feedback, and curved keycaps, among other things.)

"New" is not necessarily "better".


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (May 9, 2017)

I love Apple for making smartphones that, with 2 GB RAM, lag less than a 6 GB RAM Android phone. I love them for having an _optimized _OS, unlike Windblows which doesn't know this word. I like Apple for having devices with no viruses. I like Apple for supporting old Macs 8 years after their release, since I had a mid-2009 MBP which worked under Mac OS X El Capitan with hardly any slowdown. 

I don't like Apple for having overpriced devices and low-end GPUs on Macs. (even if nothing will ever be as overpriced as the utterly smelly bullshit named Surface Book).

I like Apple for having good, reliable phones despise their high price. And for having actual updates (yeah, unlike my father's Samsung Galaxy Niote II-LTE which did Jelly Bean-Jelly Bean while it can perfectly run LineageOS 14 on Abdroid Nougat 7.1.2).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



GerbilSoft said:


> Let's compare "old" vs. "new".
> I much prefer the "old" keyboard, even though the "new" one is, in fact, newer. (More key travel, better tactile feedback, and curved keycaps, among other things.)
> 
> "New" is not necessarily "better".



I absolutely HATE high key travel. When I use mechanical keyboards at school, I feel like typing on a 10th century typing machine keyboard.


----------



## Columbo2811 (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> Let's compare "old" vs. "new".
> 
> "New":
> 
> ...


Moving on is hard. Knowing when to move on is harder. 


Anyway on this topic who gives a shit. If you want a headphone jack don't buy a bloody iPhone, I'm sure Apple isn't struggling and losing sales. In 20 years time we will be telling are kids/grandkids how hard we had it and we used to have to plug are headphones in with a wire when we were young.


----------



## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> I absolutely HATE high key travel. When I use mechanical keyboards at school, I feel like typing on a 10th century typing machine keyboard.


I take it you don't type that much then. I can't stand the ridiculously flat keyboards, especially when the keycaps are also flat.


Columbo2811 said:


> Moving on is hard. Knowing when to move on is harder.


Please explain why I have to "move on" from a high-quality IBM Model M to "flat" keyboards.


----------



## StarTrekVoyager (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> I take it you don't type that much then. I can't stand the ridiculously flat keyboards, especially when the keycaps are also flat.


Actually I type much slower with a mechanical keyboard. I find it easier with flat keyboards since the key press is much faster


----------



## Hayleia (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> I take it you don't type that much then. I can't stand the ridiculously flat keyboards, especially when the keycaps are also flat.


He does. I see him spam on TI Planet's chat daily. And I have to type quite some amount of bullshit to stay in the top spammers there.


----------



## linuxares (May 9, 2017)

ihaveamac said:


> as someone somewhat "deep" into the Apple ecosystem (depends what you think it means), I still think the iPhone 7's removal of the headphone jack was a bit silly. can't be that obsolete when tons and tons of devices still rely on it.
> 
> I do hope it pushes the development of bluetooth headphones more however, to make them better. until then, /shrug
> 
> mind if I ask what you mean? because macOS has been free of charge for a while now. Apple's been making some of their consumer applications completely free too, like the iWork set.


It's on the more technical side. Like doing custom settings etc. can be really hard if you don't sometimes pay for some specialized software. Not the OS itself.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 9, 2017)

amoulton said:


> Their hubris to remove the headphone jack is based on the company's values and their vital role in shaping computing over the past several decades.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


So you're a fanboy. Not surprising. A blind bias ignoring the several security holes exploited in the past few years alone in your iOS device. Say what you want. Haven't owned an Android that's been rendered unusable via a text message.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (May 9, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> Let's compare "old" vs. "new".
> 
> "New":
> 
> ...


Lucky for you, most keyboards are still of the classic, chunky type.
I can't stand them myself, but that's because I'm more used to laptops. My typing is much slower on a chunky keyboard and I make a lot more typos. Though that's just a matter of habit/muscle memory, I don't think it actually matters that much what shape the keyboard is once you've used it for a while and gotten used to it. For example, I think we can all agree that netbooks with smaller-than-average keys are awful to type on, but I actually found it perfectly fine to type on (as good as any other keyboard) after being stuck with one for a month.


GerbilSoft said:


> I take it you don't type that much then. I can't stand the ridiculously flat keyboards, especially when the keycaps are also flat.
> 
> Please explain why I have to "move on" from a high-quality IBM Model M to "flat" keyboards.


I type on a keyboard all day and like I mentioned, my typing is much better with a slim keyboard, but it's just a matter of habit. Switching to a different style of keyboard throws off your muscle memory and it takes time to relearn.


----------



## SonicRings (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> The audio jack was made decades ago and it's now obsolete.


No, it's not obsolete.


----------



## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I type on a keyboard all day and like I mentioned, my typing is much better with a slim keyboard, but it's just a matter of habit. Switching to a different style of keyboard throws off your muscle memory and it takes time to relearn.


For what it's worth, my main keyboard is actually the one on my ThinkPad X230, which is the "chiclet" style. It's the only chiclet keyboard I've used that's any decent, primarily because the keycaps are curved. Most others are flat. (There's probably some non-ThinkPad chiclet keyboards that aren't flat, but I haven't seen them yet.)

For me, the "muscle memory" thing is more related to keyboard layout than the type of keys. I tried to use a UK-layout keyboard recently and had problems because of the different Enter key and the shorter left-Shift.


----------



## Armadillo (May 9, 2017)

I thought the "old" was better because it's a mechanical keyboard, not because of the key shape. Membrane type keyboard with those keys still suck ass. Mech keyboard ftw.


----------



## SLiV3R (May 9, 2017)

I have been an android user for almost 10 years. 
Bought iPhone 6 And iPad PRO 13 " last summer.
I really like Apple. 
I wont come back to android for many years to come. 
I want the new iPhone 8 with the screen that covers the whole phone!


----------



## Haymose (May 9, 2017)

I'm a little bit confused why ppl can't settle with using the adapter. Like you can just leave it attached to your headphones. I guess you wouldn't be able to charge at the same time but why would anyone need to do that?


----------



## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

Armadillo said:


> I thought the "old" was better because it's a mechanical keyboard, not because of the key shape. Membrane type keyboard with those keys still suck ass. Mech keyboard ftw.


It's a bit of everything. There are some later Model Ms with rubber dome contacts. They aren't clicky like the buckling-spring version, but they still have good key travel and have the same outer construction.

Likewise, it's possible to have a reasonably decent thin keyboard. (See aforementioned ThinkPad X230.) Problem is, most manufacturers don't care about this and just want something that "looks" fancy and is cheap.


----------



## duffmmann (May 9, 2017)

Really all it comes down to is, there was no need to actually remove the audio jack.  It wasn't making any phone needlessly bulky or anything stupid like that, They could probably fit the jack in the iPhone 7 and it would be marginally thicker and marginally taller... oh no, whatever would one do?  Such a device could never fit in our pockets!! Of course they had to remove the jack, tech, that while having been around for a long time, is by no means outdated.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Haymose said:


> I'm a little bit confused why ppl can't settle with using the adapter. Like you can just leave it attached to your headphones. I guess you wouldn't be able to charge at the same time but why would anyone need to do that?



Aux-in while charging your phone.  So if you connect your phone to your stereo in your home and don't want it to drain your battery while you do it.  I do this all the time with my Galaxy S7, so there is absolutely situations where such a thing would be desired.


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 9, 2017)

DespyCL said:


> No headphone jack = inferior product.
> 
> No wonder why samsung is selling more phones than apple.



That and there are loads of Android phones to choose from and for very reasonable prices too. I use a really cheap Android phone and am very satisfied with it, sure, there are times it lags a bit but I don't really care. It does what it should. 



Flame said:


> Windows Phone Yay



That one time a Windows Phone is better than an iPhone.


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 9, 2017)

Vipera said:


> It's cheaper to make than to expect people to use bluetooth headphones.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


You honestly look like you're just trying to defend Apple's retarded idea no matter how idiotic it is. The headphone jack is not obsolete.

This is like saying that LAN is obsolete because WiFi exists and it's wireless.


----------



## Deleted User (May 9, 2017)

Headphones jacks are everywhere and eliminating them for just one shitty product is just lame.
But who I'm, Apple is only looked to milk money from their sellers by slapping a license on them which have to give most of the profits to Apple.
Awful company, couldn't care less...


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 9, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> Headphones jacks are everywhere and eliminating them for just one shitty product is just lame.
> But who I'm, Apple is only looked to milk money from their sellers by slapping a license on them which have to give most of the profits to Apple.
> Awful company, couldn't care less...


There are USB speakers for PC which I get why they exist, it consumes low power and dedicated for PC-use but without headphone jack they are completely pointless for me. I like to connect speakers to TV and etc so USB speakers don't allow that.

At least with USB speakers they're optional whereas Apple completely revoked the headphone jack from their latest iPhone for no good reason.


----------



## Dionicio3 (May 9, 2017)

Wow, this thread just became a war, now time to put in my 2 cents

I have never used an android product and they confuse me


----------



## Deleted User (May 9, 2017)

Dionicio3 said:


> Wow, this thread just became a war, now time to put in my 2 cents
> 
> I have never used an android product and they confuse me


Now you triggered me.
"they confuse me" I could tell all that crap about Apple jailbreak policy and how to even hack this piece of crap. 
But eh, Apple is for those brag boys i guess...


----------



## Futurdreamz (May 9, 2017)

IMHO The problem is not that Apple removed the headphone jack, but that their solutions are inconsistent and erratic.

Apple dropped the headphone jack and wants you to use headphones with a lightning connector. BUT, none of their macOS computers have a lightning port. You cannot use an iOS accessory on a mac and you cannot use a macOS acccessory on an iOS device, not without an adapter.

the Apple mouse cannot be used when charging, because you flip it over to plug it in instead of having the charging port hidden in the front.

the Apple pencil sticks out from the bottom of the iPad like a hazard when charging, while if Apple had any foresight they would've taken a more engineered solution like they used to be known for, like clicking it into the Smart connector sideways.

Apple refuses to merge macOS and iOS, despite Microsoft making it fairly clear that is a viable plan. macOS give off the appearance of a neglected middle child that you only pay enough attention to so he doesn't make you look bad, yet they refuse to flesh out iOS enough that macOS can be dropped completely. Port Xcode to it for crying out loud.


Apple used to move MOUNTAINS in order to make the user experience as intuitive as possible, but now it seems that they are too afraid to re-engineer their cash cows and simply patch and spackle enough to keep them fresh-looking.

That being said, I'm in the Blackberry camp. I still think BB10 is the best OS out there, but I recognize that app support is limited. I'm using a DTEK50 with Blackberry's version of Android, and I'm fine with it. I'll admit that I miss some things from BB10, but not enough to really fret over.


----------



## GerbilSoft (May 9, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> At least with USB speakers they're optional whereas Apple completely revoked the headphone jack from their latest iPhone for no good reason.


Funny thing about that... The Power Mac G4 Cube had no headphone jack on the system unit, either. Instead, it had USB speakers, which provided their own headphone jack.

Wonder why they went back to standard headphone jacks in later models.


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 9, 2017)

Dionicio3 said:


> Wow, this thread just became a war, now time to put in my 2 cents
> 
> I have never used an android product and they confuse me


"They confuse me"






To be fair, iPhones are as easy of a UI as they come.


----------



## Subtle Demise (May 9, 2017)

Lol @ all the NSA comments. Everyone has been getting spied on since spyware and keyloggers started popping up. Who do you think invented that shit on the first place? All major OS and antivirus software is whitelisting government spyware, Apple is no exception (in fact their "secure" OS makes it more difficult to remove). 
The NSA thinks they're going to catch terrorists, but all they're gonna bust is some stoner buying a gram of weed with the TOR Browser.


----------



## Deleted User (May 9, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> Lol @ all the NSA comments. Everyone has been getting spied on since spyware and keyloggers started popping up. Who do you think invented that shit on the first place? All major OS and antivirus software is whitelisting government spyware, Apple is no exception (in fact their "secure" OS makes it more difficult to remove).
> The NSA thinks they're going to catch terrorists, but all they're gonna bust is some stoner buying a gram of weed with the TOR Browser.


We are spied by everything. Manipulated by media, brain washing kids etc.
You can easily access laptop camera without triggering anything, ISP can see what sites you visit, what info you type. Government can easily just buy info from these Antiviruses and use it to their advantage. 
tl;dr We are spied even if we don't want them to. Welcome to reality, it hurts but hey.


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 9, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> Lol @ all the NSA comments. Everyone has been getting spied on since spyware and keyloggers started popping up. Who do you think invented that shit on the first place? All major OS and antivirus software is whitelisting government spyware, Apple is no exception (in fact their "secure" OS makes it more difficult to remove).
> The NSA thinks they're going to catch terrorists, but all they're gonna bust is some stoner buying a gram of weed with the TOR Browser.


The best way to not be spied on is by destroying or bury the smartphone(s), computer(s) and other electronics too. Oh, and don't use debit/credit cards too or else the govt can find you too.

Another idea is not to live in a big city but rather a rural area where there are no CCTVs anywhere.


----------



## MionissNio (May 9, 2017)

I just bought a Chromecast audio and a battery bank with stock htc headphones wired and wired wireless experience baby I can move from basement to top of my ceiling without interference!

I have no problem with spying unless it cripples my UX which it does in Windows® to your bedroom. At least on Android it is unnoticeable.


----------



## hobbledehoy899 (May 9, 2017)

You have to be a -snip- to unironically say that the 3.5mm headphone jack was taking up too much space!


Crystal the Glaceon said:


> People just like to hate stuff and some hate becomes popular. I personally have an iPhone myself and I found that I actually really enjoy it.


Absolutely proprietary!


----------



## dAVID_ (May 9, 2017)

What I don't like about Apple is that they rename the processors to names like ''G4'' ''G5'' so you can't really know the real power of your product. Also, you can build a PC that's much more powerful than a Mac Pro and costs less. And Mac Pros are *supposed *to be for movie editors who use software that relies on GPU.


----------



## Bubsy Bobcat (May 9, 2017)

*Expensive because of the brand
*Unfairly locked down
*Closed source (this one is pretty biased I guess because I highly prefer open source software for no real reason)
My head is kinda borked at the minute but I do have more reasons. That's not to say most Android phones are perfect, since they're usually locked down to an extent by the manufacturers and bundle it with bloatware you cannot uninstall.


----------



## dAVID_ (May 9, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> The best way to not be spied on is by destroying or bury the smartphone(s), computer(s) and other electronics too. Oh, and don't use debit/credit cards too or else the govt can find you too.
> 
> Another idea is not to live in a big city but rather a rural area where there are no CCTVs anywhere.


OR... cover your cameras while not in use, encrypt your computer, get a VPN with 256+ bit encryption, and use BitCoin as much as you can.


----------



## RustInPeace (May 9, 2017)

It started out as just being a PC vs. Mac thing. PC, more customization, don't have to cling to the Apple store, there's more variety, just, more of an open world. Even when clamping it down to Windows vs. Mac, it's the same thing. But now that I think about it, this goes deeper into Apple vs. other OSes/PC, the marketing being so ubiquitous and annoying for over 10 years, this "Us vs. Them," where they kind of brag about being the luxury brand, whether it be phone, computer, tablet. It's hard for me to just form a solid opinion, I just don't like Apple, pure and simple. I can try and form an argument about them, but basically they've made me not like them. But that doesn't mean I dislike Apple users, go nuts with them. In fact I used a Macbook in high school, they were issued to us as rentals for certain classes, I'd play Cave Story on one in Statistics class in 12th grade, online tetris, great. In that respect, Macbook represents Apple, I can stand to use their products, but I never will bother owning one. Plus at that time my home laptop was a science experiment, broken LCD screen, dead battery, thus needed to be hooked up to a monitor, and plugged via AC at all times. So, Macbook easily was better. With what I have now, with what I'm used to, with what I want to get, Apple is just not in my wavelength, at all.


----------



## BARNWEY (May 9, 2017)

RustInPeace said:


> It started out as just being a PC vs. Mac thing. PC, more customization, don't have to cling to the Apple store, there's more variety, just, more of an open world. Even when clamping it down to Windows vs. Mac, it's the same thing. But now that I think about it, this goes deeper into Apple vs. other OSes/PC, the marketing being so ubiquitous and annoying for over 10 years, this "Us vs. Them," where they kind of brag about being the luxury brand, whether it be phone, computer, tablet. It's hard for me to just form a solid opinion, I just don't like Apple, pure and simple. I can try and form an argument about them, but basically they've made me not like them. But that doesn't mean I dislike Apple users, go nuts with them. In fact I used a Macbook in high school, they were issued to us as rentals for certain classes, I'd play Cave Story on one in Statistics class in 12th grade, online tetris, great. In that respect, Macbook represents Apple, I can stand to use their products, but I never will bother owning one. Plus at that time my home laptop was a science experiment, broken LCD screen, dead battery, thus needed to be hooked up to a monitor, and plugged via AC at all times. So, Macbook easily was better. With what I have now, with what I'm used to, with what I want to get, Apple is just not in my wavelength, at all.


I agree, I buy whatever suits my needs. I just really dislike fanboys XD...


----------



## Futurdreamz (May 9, 2017)

dAVID_ said:


> What I don't like about Apple is that they rename the processors to names like ''G4'' ''G5'' so you can't really know the real power of your product. Also, you can build a PC that's much more powerful than a Mac Pro and costs less. And Mac Pros are *supposed *to be for movie editors who use software that relies on GPU.



... it sounds like you don't know what a G5 processor is, and assume Apple still uses PowerPC CPUs.


----------



## Primalus (May 10, 2017)

Imo, Apple has gotten a lot better at loosening up their APIs and allowing developers to do more with their systems.  I'll always stick with Apple, mostly because I'm for the easy to use interfaces and the looks.  Tbh, I couldn't care less about "being spied on" since I have nothing sensitive to hide.


----------



## Jacklack3 (May 10, 2017)

LightyKD said:


> Imo, Apple has gotten a lot better at loosening up their APIs and allowing developers to do more with their systems.  I'll always stick with Apple, mostly because I'm for the easy to use interfaces and the looks.  Tbh, I couldn't care less about "being spied on" since I have nothing sensitive to hide.


----------



## BARNWEY (May 10, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> ... it sounds like you don't know what a G5 processor is, and assume Apple still uses PowerPC CPUs.


They don't use PowerPC CPUs anymore, they dropped them for Intel...


----------



## BORTZ (May 10, 2017)

My guess is that Apple is artificially driving up the demand for Bluetooth headphones.


----------



## Dionicio3 (May 10, 2017)

BORTZ said:


> My guess is that Apple is artificially driving up the demand for Bluetooth headphones.


Yep, spot on bortz, but not any headphones, their special air pods


----------



## Futurdreamz (May 10, 2017)

Jacklack3 said:


>


The problem with indiscriminately advocating for free speech is that you advocate for the right to violate other's privacy. The whole Hulk Hogan case was because Gawker claimed that they had the right under free speech to broadcast very personal details about Hogan's life.


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## CitizenSnips (May 10, 2017)

The headphone jack is still widely used today and comes in handy in certain occasions, especially when your bluetooth headphones run out of battery, so there wasn't much reason to remove it in my eyes besides making it a few millimeters smaller. Also my theory is that they really want to make money by selling air pods or the adapters for headphones.


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## _Chaz_ (May 10, 2017)

"I don't like that product, so I won't buy it" isn't hate.
Stop getting upset when people don't buy from your favorite company.


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## LightyKD (May 10, 2017)

Jacklack3 said:


>



I think Temp is having some issues. The quote that you replied to wasn't from me. Never said those words yet they're labeled as my quote... odd :/


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## linuxares (May 10, 2017)

My Nr.1 reason why to never buy an Apple product? I actually enjoy owning my own stuff without a company interfering with how I use my products.

With both an Android (by picking smart and not supporting Samsung's BS policies) I can root and get more or less a whole new world. With computers? I build my own (stationary) or pick laptops that I know I can repair myself and yes, I always make sure they start up before reinstalling them right away with the selected OS of my choice.


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## GerbilSoft (May 10, 2017)

dAVID_ said:


> What I don't like about Apple is that they rename the processors to names like ''G4'' ''G5'' so you can't really know the real power of your product.


I'm not sure how "750", "7400", "7450", or "970" would be any more descriptive. Never mind the fact that Macintoshes haven't used PowerPC CPUs since 2005.


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## SonicCloud (May 10, 2017)

Mostly due to their high prices. Personally i have never owned an Apple Product , however , there seem to be almost nothing of innovation in every product they do , also for their Computers , these are not compatible with anything . Yeah i understand Macs and Macbooks work for some different things , but if you want to do something on a Mac / Macbook and the program you need is Windows-Only then you are screwed.


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## GerbilSoft (May 10, 2017)

SonicCloud said:


> but if you want to do something on a Mac / Macbook and the program you need is Windows-Only then you are screwed.


VMs exist. You can run a Windows VM for the Windows-specific stuff while using another OS for your primary work. I do this; I use Gentoo Linux as my primary OS, and I have Windows XP and 7 VMs.


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## SonicCloud (May 10, 2017)

GerbilSoft said:


> VMs exist. You can run a Windows VM for the Windows-specific stuff while using another OS for your primary work. I do this; I use Gentoo Linux as my primary OS, and I have Windows XP and 7 VMs.


Yeah i know , but for the inexperienced people that can be such a pain in the ass.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (May 10, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> The problem with indiscriminately advocating for free speech is that you advocate for the right to violate other's privacy. The whole Hulk Hogan case was because Gawker claimed that they had the right under free speech to broadcast very personal details about Hogan's life.


There's always a limit to free speech when it gets to the nerves of someone so even those who don't care too much should be concerned about it because they're the ones who jinx more than the rest.


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