# Nintendo shuts down decade old fan game creation tool Pokemon Essentials



## Closet Nerd (Aug 29, 2018)




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## Beerus (Aug 29, 2018)

man i remember trying to make rom hacks it was fun why ninty got to ruin our fun


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## Chary (Aug 29, 2018)

Nintendo shows no mercy.


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## Bimmel (Aug 29, 2018)

These monsters. Let the people play and create, Nintendo.. this is your damn purpose for being in this world. Is everything where you can't earn money evil?


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## Wuigi (Aug 29, 2018)

Couldn't they extract the assets of a known original backup at startup to circumvent this?
Then they wouldn't host those assets themselves.
Only some checksums and offsets were needed then.


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## Shadowfied (Aug 29, 2018)

Man can they fuck off with this fucking shit already? I've never seen a company be so fucking ridiculous about their IP. They are spending more money hunting these innocent fans down than...whatever smoked up scenario they have in their brain that It'd lose them money..fucking hell


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## shaunj66 (Aug 29, 2018)

On the flip side SEGA encourage fans to use their IPs in passion projects and actively recruit talented developers.

Genesis does what Nintendon't.


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## Chary (Aug 29, 2018)

shaunj66 said:


> On the flip side SEGA encourage fans to use their IPs in passion projects and actively recruit talented developers.
> 
> Genesis does what Nintendon't.


Especially ironic that this is occurring during SAGE 2018. This really only puts Nintendo in a bad light, regardless of how you look at it.


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## Leobgood (Aug 29, 2018)

You cross the Bigtendo and you will be swimming with the fishes.  Count your blessings b/c you dodged a bullet.


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## 8BitWonder (Aug 29, 2018)

I was really worried for a second thinking that was AdvanceMap.
Still sucks to see a tool like that be taken down though.


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## KingVamp (Aug 29, 2018)

Doesn't really make a difference, I'm just curious. Is it the Pokemon company or actually Nintendo themselves?


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## PedroKeitawa (Aug 29, 2018)

I can sit here and try to say "is becouse the assents that the progam use are the one made by game freak so they have all the rights" but...yeah this is bullshit. And nobody, becouse i know there is gonna be a certain person in the community that would try to do this for easy money, try to say "oh is becouse they are gonna make a pokemon game creator in the same light of mario maker" that is bullshit.
Sure they have done this with Pixelmon and after take down that we got...Pokemon Quest that is "intresting" (boring) game.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

well thats what they had comming to be honest. Game rips where delted ages ago from rpg maker resource pages due several dmcas from companies like square yet they though they could get away with using nintendo assets.


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## Lycan911 (Aug 29, 2018)

They're just being assholes at this point


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## CaptainSodaPop (Aug 29, 2018)

Hilarious (that they care so much about stuff like this).


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

CaptainSodaPop said:


> Hilarious (that they care so much about stuff like this).


isnt that thanks to american copryright laws as in if they dont defend it they lose it?


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## migles (Aug 29, 2018)

did anyone mirrored all that shit?
i am interested of having a local copy, including the wiki site...


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## Marco_Buns (Aug 29, 2018)

Nintendo is going hard this year


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

i really like how people seems to think its only nintendo... if anything the peopel behind pokemon essentials should have known better.
Years ago square among others filed dmca against several back then popular games for using game rips. The stance since then in the rpg makercommunity was that you should stay aways from game rips and use user made tilesets/chars/music/etc. Most devs did so... all but the pokemon essential users (some did user self made fakemons and graphics aswell as music but those are rare) and creators. So all in all it was bound to happen and they should have known it anyways (its nintendo, and it happened before in the scene)


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## CaptainSodaPop (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> isnt that thanks to american copryright laws as in if they dont defend it they lose it?



Yet only they do it. So not really buyin that... And this is isn't about Nintendo of America, Nintendo as a company generally is like this past few years.


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## eriol33 (Aug 29, 2018)

Nntendo must be really hating the doujin industry.


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## Coto (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> i really like how people seems to think its only nintendo... if anything the peopel behind pokemon essentials should have known better.
> Years ago square among others filed dmca against several back then popular games for using game rips. The stence since then in community was that you should stay aways frpm game rips and use user made tielsets. Most devs did so... all but the pokemon essential users and creators. So all in all it was bound to happen and they should have known it anyways (its nintendo, and it happened before in the scene)



I think they are protecting their IP. If they arrived saying to take down all the coding work I've done so far, I would. After all that is business. So.

Eh ;-)


edit:

also: DMCA -> take down on direct infringement on content they hold the copyright (and that happens everywhere)


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

CaptainSodaPop said:


> Yet only they do it. So not really buyin that... And this is isn't about Nintendo of America, Nintendo as a company generally is like this past few years.
> 
> 
> Yet only they do it. So not really buyin that... And this is isn't about Nintendo of America, Nintendo as a company generally is like this past few years.


its not only them far from it.
DMCA happens all of the time and most of the time the public wont hear about it. Add to that that there are rarely other "fangames" for other companies.
Ever heard about a LBP, God of war, FF (well most got shotdown by square but well lets ignore that), tales of fangames? They are rare if any exist at all.
Now compare that to the amount of pokemon fangame and hacks or even zelda fangames and you will understand why it seemingly only is nintendo doing such things.


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## CaptainSodaPop (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> its not only them far from it.
> DMCA happens all of the time and most of the time the public wont hear about it. Add to that that there are rarely other "fangames" for other companies.
> Ever heard about a LBP, God of war, FF (well most got shotdown by square but well lets ignore that), tales of fangames?



Have you ever seen Google Play Store games/apps?  According to that, 60% of stuff there would have been taken down. As an example, few days ago after watching some GTA related video I was offered ad for "GTA V Free" on Google Play Store. Whatever that is... Not to mention there's also a lot of Nintendo related crap there.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

CaptainSodaPop said:


> Have you ever seen Google Play Store games/apps?  According to that, 60% of stuff there would have been taken down. As an example, few days ago after watching some GTA related video I was offered ad for "GTA V Free" on Google Play Store. Whatever that is... Not to mention there's also a lot of Nintendo related crap there.


many games get taken down sooner or later for copyright infringement. the problem is that many of those devs are from china and thus are hard to dmca due different laws there.

Also there is differents between a clone and a rip off. Many gta v for free besides the name obviously dont use ripped//remade assets from the game.
Now for example look at the stuff pokemon essential comes with, mostly ripped assets.


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## ShadowOne333 (Aug 29, 2018)

Okay this is it.
Fuck you Nintendo, I will no longer support your bullshit, from now on everything you release, I'll pirate.
This won't change until you embrace and support the community which is feeding you, stupid ungrateful assholes.


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## ut2k4master (Aug 29, 2018)

nintendo have to defend their ip, otherwise they wont be able to keep it. absolutely normal procedure and not a "dick" move in any way.
also its clearly ripping off their assets


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## Deleted User (Aug 29, 2018)

So, not just the fan games themselves are enough, now NIntendo has to go over the tools that are used to make them in the first place?

I acknowledge that Nintendo has every legal right to do this, but heck, this is a really scummy thing to do.  I can't think of any other games company which is as draconian about its intellectual property as Nintendo.  What makes it worse is the fact that many of these Pokemon ROM Hacks and fan games are oftentimes more creative than what GF puts out in its official games.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Okay this is it.
> Fuck you Nintendo, I will no longer support your bullshit, from now on everything you release, I'll pirate.
> This won't change until you embrace and support the community which is feeding you, stupid ungrateful assholes.


that makes you  quite the hypocrite you know?


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## Uiaad (Aug 29, 2018)

As I have to keep reminding people, Nintendo is like a prostitute, you can give her all the money you want but she will never love you.


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## chrisrlink (Aug 29, 2018)

Nintendo, you have done it I'm going to get in contact with Anonymous THIS IS WAR NOW


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

uiaad said:


> As I have to keep reminding people, Nintendo is like a prostitute, you can give her all the money you want but she will never love you.


thats not just nintendo but all devs.



B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> So, not just the fan games themselves are enough, now NIntendo has to go over the tools that are used to make them in the first place?
> 
> I acknowledge that Nintendo has every legal right to do this, but heck, this is a really scummy thing to do.  I can't think of any other games company which is as draconian about its intellectual property as Nintendo.  What makes it worse is the fact that many of these Pokemon ROM Hacks and fan games are oftentimes more creative than what GF puts out in its official games.


once again its far from only nintendo that does it, you only hear it more often due the fact that more people do fangames to nintendo games then anyother devs.


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## ut2k4master (Aug 29, 2018)

uiaad said:


> As I have to keep reminding people, Nintendo is like a prostitute, you can give her all the money you want but she will never love you.


aka any business ever


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Aug 29, 2018)

*Nintendo has now no fucking mercy anymore.*
Come on! This tool is over a fucking decade old and not even claimed by Nintendo! I can already see them putting a ban over emulators soon!


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Trash_Bandatcoot said:


> *Nintendo has now no fucking mercy anymore.*
> Come on! This tool is over a fucking decade old and not even claimed by Nintendo! I can already see them putting a ban over emulators soon!


unlike fangames and ripped assets (mind you) emulators are ruled to be fair game even if sold commercial (if they dont use code from the dev)-> bleem vs sony


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## PedroKeitawa (Aug 29, 2018)

I forgot one thing. Ah i read the next replay here and i agree, even is bullshit they still need to protect their ip. But by this so...Pokemonshowdown is next? Becouse he use background rip from the game. The sprites are all rip from the game, same with the gif of the 3d model all rip from the game. So is gonna be the next target?


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## VitaType (Aug 29, 2018)

That's harsh, but they really should have just provided a tool to rip the assets and everything out of a ROM you have to provide yourself and let it rip in exactly the needed folder structure to just copy&past in the right place. On the other hand I think the tool is such old that it was before Nintendo drove crazy with copyrights.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

PedroKeitawa said:


> I forgot one thing. Ah i read the next replay here and i agree, even is bullshit they still need to protect their ip. But by this so...Pokemonshowdown is next? Becouse he use background rip from the game. The sprites are all rip from the game, same with the gif of the 3d model all rip from the game. So is gonna be the next target?


ripping assets is the same as pirating a game which many here contone.
You play/use somethign you dont have any right for to use/play.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



VitaType said:


> That's harsh, but they really should have just provided a tool to rip the assets and everything out of a ROM you have to provide yourself and let it rip in exactly the needed folder structure to just copy&past in the right place. On the other hand I think the tool is such old that it was before Nintendo drove crazy with copyrights.


its not that old it only made for rpg maker xp which was way after the scene was hit with the mass dmca of square due ripped game assets so they should have known it better.


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## chrisrlink (Aug 29, 2018)

if I was satoshi Tajiri I'd break contract by now and take complete control over the Pokémon franchise (I mean Nintendo don't even fucking make the games they just take 90% of the profits) Nintendo's been screwing over GF since red/green in 95 why was he this fucking stupid in the first place to sign up with such a toxic company?


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## Leobgood (Aug 29, 2018)

migles said:


> did anyone mirrored all that shit?
> i am interested of having a local copy, including the wiki site...



Ditto...


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> if I was satoshi Tajiri I'd break contract by now and take complete control over the Pokémon franchise (I mean Nintendo don't even fucking make the games they just take 90% of the profits) Nintendo's been screwing over GF since red/green in 95 why was he this fucking stupid in the first place to sign up with such a toxic company?


companies like monolith would disagree with you on that. unlike other publisher nintendo allowed them to follow through with their dream of the xenogames even trough the lkast two atempy before hand where somewhat of a disasster.


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## Uiaad (Aug 29, 2018)

ut2k4master said:


> aka any business ever





ken28 said:


> thats not just nintendo but all devs.



A difference is another dev/company does this barely anyone bats an eyelid but when Nintendo does it there is an uproar. I am not Nintendo's biggest fan but they have a legal right to do what they are currently doing. The question you have to ask yourself is this gonna really change anything in the grand scheme of things ? 

Modding will always continue as will ROM sharing. This really does change nothing there will always be alternate routes to do what people are doing.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> companies like monolith would disagree with you on that. unlike other publisher nintendo allowed them to follow through with their dream of the xenogames even trough the lkast two atempy before hand where somewhat of a disasster.


here is a nice video about the whole thing:


(so would the bayonetta devs since big n saves the series, but hey big n is all bad)


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## shaunj66 (Aug 29, 2018)

Leobgood said:


> Ditto...


The Wayback Machine has a lot of the Wiki archived but it appears the Mediafire links for the downloads are also dead now. However I'm sure some users should have a local copy somewhere so I'm sure it will show up at some point.


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## VitaType (Aug 29, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> if I was satoshi Tajiri I'd break contract by now and take complete control over the Pokémon franchise (I mean Nintendo don't even fucking make the games they just take 90% of the profits) Nintendo's been screwing over GF since red/green in 95 why was he this fucking stupid in the first place to sign up with such a toxic company?


Pokémon was started with an for a videogame unprecedented marketing campaign. I don't think without what they did in the 90s to make the IP great we still would talk about this games. Nintendo did alot for GameFreak with this campaign.


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## Clydefrosch (Aug 29, 2018)

well duh, its surprising they got away with hosting this officially for as long as they did.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 29, 2018)

nintendo are just c**ts now 1st they offer absolutely fuck all games for the switch and are more interested in mobile and cardboard GARBAGE. and now they are acting worse than apple with takedowns.


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## CaptainSodaPop (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> many games get taken down sooner or later for copyright infringement. the problem is that many of those devs are from china and thus are hard to dmca due different laws there.
> 
> Also there is differents between a clone and a rip off. Many gta v for free besides the name obviously dont use ripped//remade assets from the game.
> Now for example look at the stuff pokemon essential comes with, mostly ripped assets.



But how they end up there at all strikes me... Google as one of the biggest if not the biggest American company is not protecting it's own country laws?

Using literally the same assets or not, being a real game or not. Stuff like this is beyond me.

   

Especially when app has ads inside that bring money to the shady developers. Obviously Sony doesn't own right to "Omega" symbol or Rockstar doesn't have right to that font. But come on, store is full of copycats like this for anything popular you can think of. Pokemon fan games are free and made for the purpose of having fun and Nintendo should be happy people are playing and promoting their games for free. Even hire some of the talented guys.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> isnt that thanks to american copryright laws as in if they dont defend it they lose it?


That's not copyright, that's trademark.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

CaptainSodaPop said:


> But how they end up there at all strikes me... Google as one of the biggest if not the biggest American company is not protecting it's own country laws?
> 
> Using literally the same assets or not, being a real game or not. Stuff like this is beyond me.
> 
> ...


lets u face it, google doesnt really checks the games like apple does. the only thing they do is check automaticly checks for viruses thats it.
and google being american results in it being taken down sooner or later, mostlikely later due ad money which google gets a precentage off


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 29, 2018)

ut2k4master said:


> nintendo have to defend their ip, otherwise they wont be able to keep it. absolutely normal procedure and not a "dick" move in any way.
> also its clearly ripping off their assets


Again, that only applies for trademarks, not intellectual property or copyrights.


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## ertaboy356b (Aug 29, 2018)

Pokemon Maker incoming!!!!


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## VitaType (Aug 29, 2018)

ertaboy356b said:


> Pokemon Maker incoming!!!!


Hopefully it will have a feature where you can make photographs from two objects and the program will create a new Pokémon out of them.
Sounds like a great idea.


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## Kigiru (Aug 29, 2018)

Cool and all but how they want to put it into work?
Sure, they can nuke the site and scare the group working on it into surrender, but there will be always some mirrors to last available version and people that want to use it to make their own game and people making unofficial patches...
It does not work like that, this is waste of time and in my opinion a clear signal that Nintendo does not even know what they are doing anymore.


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## Zonark (Aug 29, 2018)

Pokémon Maker! Maybe real???


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## SSG Vegeta (Aug 29, 2018)

If Nintendo keeps doing this then people are going to eventually leave them 0.0


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## BlastedGuy9905 (Aug 29, 2018)

Okay, that's an asshole move.


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## VitaType (Aug 29, 2018)

Zonark said:


> Pokémon Maker! Maybe real???


No. Nintendo would never build a Maker that needs such a attention span and time window to make anything half-playable as a RPG. In the 90s maybe (Mario Paint and its 64DD succesor), but not today. They want to be open for everyone and we don't life in a time for that atm. Of course for a good Mario Maker level you need time too, but you also can trash something along in under a minute and call it a day.


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## ut2k4master (Aug 29, 2018)

SSG Vegeta said:


> If Nintendo keeps doing then people are going to eventually leave them 0.0


99.999% of people couldnt care less


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## SSG Vegeta (Aug 29, 2018)

ut2k4master said:


> 99.999% of people couldnt care less



Speak for yourself the community revolves around roms,romhacks & homebrew that's my point.


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## BlueFox gui (Aug 29, 2018)

nintendo should just die


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## migles (Aug 29, 2018)

shaunj66 said:


> The Wayback Machine has a lot of the Wiki archived but it appears the Mediafire links for the downloads are also dead now. However I'm sure some users should have a local copy somewhere so I'm sure it will show up at some point.


if ya know or find something about the links, give me a tip, these tools are precious, shouldn't die
sadly i didn't knew about them until now :C

i am already rom hoarding so..


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## Alex S (Aug 29, 2018)

Nintendo never learns. once its on the internet, its never "taken down". what really happens is it just goes to another website over and over just like roms. you can't even secure your own consoles security nintendo... what makes you think that the internet itself is somehow controllable too?


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Alex S said:


> Nintendo never learns. once its on the internet, its never "taken down". what really happens is it just goes to another website over and over just like roms. you can't even secure your own consoles security nintendo... what makes you think that the internet itself is somehow controllable too?


nintendo secured their console this time, or do you say you know more then scirem about it?
Its nividia that f-ed up not nintendo.


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## kumikochan (Aug 29, 2018)

Fuck Nintendo, Easily gonna pas EA in worst company


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## Coto (Aug 29, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Again, that only applies for trademarks, not intellectual property or copyrights.


actually, the correct terms would be trademark (worldwide), patent (more like local legal scope, falls under the copyright section, invention), copyright(worldwide, expression of an idea, such as artistic work) and software licenses(worldwide) being entirely different from these.

(these points have been acknowledged by real life lawyers btw)

there are two infringements in the DMCA case:

1) a software license that you the consumer do not have to use/redistribute the product. You infringe that because you can't license work that does not belong to you. (the infraction raises in their software license, from the game it originally comes from, and you are subject to its clauses, which IIRC does not allow you to tamper with any form of the code at all, nor redistribute it).

2) the work belongs to the IP of Pokemon Company and Nintendo. So there's a copyright infringement. Different would be, if you were to use their logo in your personal work, that would also raise a trademark infraction if they didn't allow that. (such as youtube channels), and there is permissive licenses such as this one from USA (that enables you, a citicen to apply to 2) point), being:

"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use"


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## Dominator211 (Aug 29, 2018)

Things like this gave it life. I’m even more frustrated being a switch owner. So many emotions. God damn it Nintendo


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

Or maybe fan games should do their -own- work and not steal other's?

Hell.. It's not that fucking hard.

Remember the Castlevania in unreal that was taken down?

If the guy had changed the sprites a bit and called Simon "bob" and Dracula "Steve." not a whole lot could be done. Instead it was "Look at my casltevania!"

Hell.. Look at Curse of the Moon. It's fucking Castlevania 3, but since it's literally their own game with no stolen assets, not a lot can be done.


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## RedoLane (Aug 29, 2018)

So anyone ready for a boycott?


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## Dominator211 (Aug 29, 2018)

Lycanroc said:


> They're just being assholes at this point


We should have the creative freedom to do stuff


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

RedoLane said:


> So anyone ready for a boycott?



Oh I boycott "fan games" all the damn time.


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## Alex S (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> nintendo secured their console this time, or do you say you know more then scirem about it?
> Its nividia that f-ed up not nintendo.



a failure is still a failure. they made the poor choice of asking nvidia to work with them one time. they never had issues before with ati/amd


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Alex S said:


> a failure is stil la failure. they made the poor choice of asking nvidia to worl with them one time. they never had issues before with ati/amd


wow thats a strsange definition of guilt.


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## chrisrlink (Aug 29, 2018)

hell I'm selling my nintendo shit after this


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## AkikoKumagara (Aug 29, 2018)

Copyright infringement is what it is. It's amazing it lasted this long, but it had no right to.



Dominator211 said:


> We should have the creative freedom to do stuff



Stealing and redistributing assets is not very creative, though, lol. Creativity would implicate you make your own.


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## Alex S (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> wow thats a strsange definition of guilt.



if your neighbor leaves your backdoor unlocked for just anyone to walk into because you gave them the key. who is at fault here?


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## AutumnWolf (Aug 29, 2018)

F*cking disgusting


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Alex S said:


> if your neighbor leaves your backdoor unlocked for just anyone to walk into because you gave them the key. who is at fault here?


if you had no reason to suspect the neighbor doing so then cleary the neighbor but this anology isnt entirely correct. that would imply the neighbor leaving the door open intentionally but in this case it would be more like him accidently leaving the door open.
But this scenario isnt that unlikely, many people gives secondary keys to neighbor in case they locked themselves out. In real life this situation is more of an can happen situtation since you dont need to give him a key at all even if you trust them.

But unless you make your own hardware  you need hardware manufactores which you need to trust. And let us face it nvidia is far from "untrust" worthy.


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## SomeKindOfUsername (Aug 29, 2018)

Why is it only Nintendo that does this? You literally don't see any other company doing this kind of thing.

For real though, distributing or using ripped assets is playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. The rage is comical, especially considering most are pirating their stuff anyway.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Sophie-bear said:


> Copyright infringement is what it is. It's amazing it lasted this long, but it had no right to.
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing and redistributing assets is not very creative, though, lol. Creativity would implicate you make your own.


this is funniest thign right here.
Many of those who complain now also contone piracy which is fine and all but here the big joke... at the same time they seemingly are totally fine with using rippes assets... this makes them huge hypocrites.


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## KingVamp (Aug 29, 2018)

Reminds me of the non-Pokemon Pokemon game, Temtem. 

Anyway, I can understand why people are mad, but some people are really exaggerating strongly.


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

SomeKindOfUsername said:


> Why is it only Nintendo that does this? You literally don't see any other company doing this kind of thing.
> 
> For real though, distributing or using ripped assets is playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. The rage is comical, especially considering most are pirating their stuff anyway.




Whats funny is it's LITERALLY plagiarism, yet people got so pissed off at the IGN guy for that... yet this is perfectly fine?


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## Lumince (Aug 29, 2018)

Nintendo needs to die now


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## zoogie (Aug 29, 2018)

I'm so angry I have to spend 5 minutes extra googling this!


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> Reminds me of the non-Pokemon Pokemon game, Temtem.
> 
> Anyway, I can understand why people are mad, but some people are really exaggerating strongly.



And Tem Tem is having no problem at all..

Funny how that works, people that are doing their own work instead of copying others isn't getting takedown notices.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Whats funny is it's LITERALLY plagiarism, yet people got so pissed off at the IGN guy for that... yet this is perfectly fine?


you dont need to look that far, many of those also contone piracy


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> you dont need to look that far, many of those also contone piracy




Yep.. They do.. And event then they have to go "But they -made- me pirate." instead of just putting on fucking big boy pants and going "Yep. I pirate."

They don't want to take responsibility.


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

Replacing Satoru Iwata, Tatsumi Kimishima, look at his head? Do you really think he looks tender with pirates?
or that he has a head laughed in front of the Rom hack? or the pokemon resources available to the game maker? .....
https://www.google.fr/search?q=nouv....69i57.8713j0j4&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF
Nintendo file bad cotton ...

he was a great man, far from the new Nintendo policy ...
https://www.google.fr/search?q=Sato...PZ1AKHc5fDPoQ_AUIESgD&biw=854&bih=424&dpr=1.5


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## KingVamp (Aug 29, 2018)

Also, I doubt they are making it, but I would most likely buy a Pokemon Maker game.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Yep.. They do.. And event then they have to go "But they -made- me pirate." instead of just putting on fucking big boy pants and going "Yep. I pirate."
> 
> They don't want to take responsibility.


not only that , but the fact that piracy which is in widere terms stealing of a game is a no go for them them but stealing assets from said game suddenly is all good?
that quite a hypocrite thig to do.


----------



## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> Also, I doubt they are making it, but I would most likely buy a Pokemon Maker game.



Only if it was 2D style with sprite editor. ;D

Nah who am I kidding, I'd buy it to play around with it. 

But I doubt they will, cause lets be honest, most of the made games would be horrible.


----------



## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Only if it was 2D style with sprite editor. ;D
> 
> Nah who am I kidding, I'd buy it to play around with it.
> 
> But I doubt they will, cause lets be honest, most of the made games would be horrible.


they dont even do a zelda one ... why would they do a pokemon one which is much more work xD


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

Hell Freedom Planet and Curse of the Moon are proof that "fangames" can work just fine, if they actually do the work.

*I know curse of the moon isn't technically a fan game, but falls in the same scenario here.*


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

it just protects the upcoming output of rpg maker 4 switch
if pokemon assets are carried easily?
rpg maker4 switch


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## Coolsonickirby (Aug 29, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Or maybe fan games should do their -own- work and not steal other's?
> 
> Hell.. It's not that fucking hard.
> 
> ...



Fan games are made as an appreciation to the original IP. Companies like Sega and Capcom respect that, but other Companies like Nintendo and Konami don't. The people who make fan games of any Nintendo game knowing full well it will be taken down do it because they love the game series they grew up with.


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## AkikoKumagara (Aug 29, 2018)

Coolsonickirby said:


> Fan games are made as an appreciation to the original IP. Companies like Sega and Capcom respect that, but other Companies like Nintendo and Konami don't. The people who make fan games of any Nintendo game knowing full well it will be taken down do it because they love the game series they grew up with.



SEGA and Capcom have both taken down numerous fan-games over the years. On top of that, this wasn't taken down because it can be used to make fan-games, but because it's distributing ripped assets from the games.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

also here a clarification from one of the devs/or someone close to them not sure:
"I mean, Fandom got a DMCA from Nintendo of America and has therefore taken down the wikia itself. They also sent a DMCA to Mediafire for the actual downloads themselves. That's pretty serious stuff."

It was mediafire and fandom (the wiki host) that got a dmca not the dev itself (yet)


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

Nope... Capcom never stopped fangames... Nope! Not at all.

https://gamerant.com/resident-evil-2-remake-fan-shut-down-518/
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/12/ghosts-n-goblins-game-shut-down-by-capcom/
https://www.pcgamer.com/street-fighter-costume-modders-issued-dmca-takedown-notice-from-capcom/
https://twitter.com/unseen64/status/716163525924798464


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## PrincessLillie (Aug 29, 2018)

Corporate greed is an evil beast. It causes wonderful companies like Nintendo to do stupid stuff like this. It sucks.
(Could someone DM me a working download? I love hard-to-find DMCAed shit )


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

yes on sega genesis after pier solar and look at me ca paprium

I know that they are original games, assets that are not under copyright, I am independent developer I know what I am talking about, but cut the grass under the foot of aspiring future creator, these software construct, construct2 , rpg maker etc ... allow people without great knowledge of code to create, which allows more time for assets, the rapid prototyping of construct2 for example is exemplary I understand that an independent colleague has developed on switch with that, is it not penelope? a racing game seen from above, he had started the dev on rpgmaker, I advised him construct2, I think he finished the dev in short, never broke the dreams of humans, as in the movie equilibrium on do not walk on my dreams with impunity.


----------



## Skeet1983 (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> here is a nice video about the whole thing:
> 
> 
> (so would the bayonetta devs since big n saves the series, but hey big n is all bad)




Hey, I know the guy in that video!


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

good news thank you.
I rectify above the colleague started with game maker (engine used on rampage city? I think) not RPG maker, and he switched to construct2 shader and fx simpler and better rendering than game maker.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 29, 2018)

Coto said:


> actually, the correct terms would be trademark (worldwide), patent (more like local legal scope, falls under the copyright section, invention), copyright(worldwide, expression of an idea, such as artistic work) and software licenses(worldwide) being entirely different from these.
> 
> (these points have been acknowledged by real life lawyers btw)
> 
> ...


What I'm saying is that a copyright is automatically applied upon creation of a work and is valid for I believe 100 years after the creator's death. It needs no active protection to remain valid. You can choose to allow people to freely distribute a copyrighted work for 30 years and suddenly decide to start enforcing the copyright on it without penalty. Trademarks are different and require owners to be proactive in protecting it.


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## CaptainSodaPop (Aug 29, 2018)

ken28 said:


> lets u face it, google doesnt really checks the games like apple does. the only thing they do is check automaticly checks for viruses thats it.
> and google being american results in it being taken down sooner or later, mostlikely later due ad money which google gets a precentage off



Sorry, just realised I missed one of your posts on the first page. I posted just right after you. lol I'm aware of how Google works don't worry, what I'm trying to say is that's exactly the problem. Why there's no automated control? But discussion on this seems irrelevant anymore since that about American laws obviously isn't the problem here. It's a shame because developers who made this made it strictly for the fun of it, there was no intention to earn money from it. But if it bothers them, it's their right of course. Impact will be the opposite of what they're trying to do though and my predictions are they will be in for a surprise when people start answering with their wallets if they release something like "Pokemon Maker". Not that they don't deserve money for their respective ownerships, but if they do it in a situation like this it won't be another AM2R coincidence. I repeat, no money was made and they don't recognize TRUE INTENTIONS behind creating such things. Piracy is not the 1st world problem, it's a big issue but that's on hardware creators and developers to blame. Look at Steam and what Gabe did. That's the real deal. People who pirate on PC today are really in the niche category and probably don't play much video games anyway. Don't get me started about the paid online play and DLC-s. Something clearly has to change about the prices you pay and what you get for it but that would be another topic.


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## Xabring (Aug 29, 2018)

Dang it, Didn't even know it existed and now I can't use it now that I know. shame.


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## osaka35 (Aug 29, 2018)

You can blame copyright laws (and related) for this.

The more popular a thing is, the more these steps are required. The reason why some companies allow fan projects, to a limited degree, is to drum up support and interest, but it must be closely watched and there is a thin line. Pokemon requires no such support, and allowing fan stuff creates precedence that could ultimately hurt the pokemon franchise. Why? because copyright (and others) is broken. And the pokemon company definitely errs on the side of caution with such things, which is a bummer.

I can't hold it against them for doing this, not much, but it does suck really really hard. I also personally don't see this impacting the creation of fan made stuff much at all. Just don't fool yourself into thinking it's legal to use copyrighted content without permission. I still support those kinds of projects though, folks make some really amazing stuff. I even have a few of my own in the works.


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## Cha0tic (Aug 29, 2018)

Xabring said:


> Dang it, Didn't even know it existed and now I can't use it now that I know. shame.



Sure you can just because Nintendo killed it doesn't mean you won't see it floating around online.


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## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Alas nintendo doesn mind fangame, as long as they dont use their name or assets. We see this several times

Zelda maker got a dmca for using zelda assets and the name  -> name changed to legend maker and sprites totally changed to be selfmade and now its fine

Blossom Tale and oceanhorn both being cleary inspired by zelda where released on the switch

Crystal monster - a pokemon clone - was released on the dsi.

to sum it up, nintendo isnt contra Fan Games. its contra using ripped assets or trademarked chars/designs.


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

yes nintendo closes the sites of Roms (even sega neo geo) closes if nintendo rom are there, they make the war ban and superban, the war against pokemon maker, how will it stop me from playing in my nes and supermario world 1,2, or 3? or the rom equivalent on emulator? I have the right to use a copy rom if I have the original, if I play on switch they me superban, for mario nes on retroarch? nintendo seriously? make love not war, play games, leave the past to the past, it belongs to me, it belongs to everyone, did not try to erase my childhood, I spent so much money in the video games that I could buy a house, so it's not pokemon maker, or anything supernintendo rom that will prevent you from developing the future of your console ...


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## GhostLatte (Aug 29, 2018)

I knew Nintendo was a bunch of cucks but damn.


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

Ah! Ah! Ah!
+1
the truth for my case?
that's why I bought a switch for emulators voila my channel youtube retrogaming retroarch on gpd xd, there is not a single video on switch ... I have sxospro, I have homebrew, retronx or lakka who has no sound, they can not stand the shader, or no gpu optimizations, or no dynarec (n64) short blow I end up with the sword of damocles above the head, if I play a homebrew, I risk ban, mouais ...
here is good watching if you have nothing to do, look at the games of my childhood played perfectly on android, and I dream of being able to do as well, or even better gpu x1, on android it runs the streets
a small thumb iu comment it makes me happy
https://www.youtube.com/view_all_playlists
I'm just in love with pixel art it's not my fault, and no vaccines exist, I hack all my consoles for that to each me, I'm a villain boy, who is too lazy to reconnect his amiga 500, or atari1040stf, or blown in the cartridges nes if it does not start, or the super nes, or genesis yes I still have all these machines, and the craziest thing is that it starts with a quarter turn, unlike the x360 or ps3 ... the snes is indestructible ...

here in France what can nintendo, the dream of a child, who tests his homebrew on switch


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## koyuki38 (Aug 29, 2018)

Will i receive a Cease and Desist if i do a fan art pokemon or a fan made video ?

Because i don't really see the difference with a fan game. That's the same intellectual property.

Edit : Jesus, that boy is far better than me


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## Tigran (Aug 29, 2018)

koyuki38 said:


> Will i receive a Cease and Desist if i do a fan art pokemon or a fan made video ?
> 
> Because i don't really see the difference with a fan game. That's the same intellectual property.



Theoreticly, yes. Chances of it slim.

See the difference is while you are using their IP, you are at least still doing you're own drawing and in those cases actually peforming something similar to fair use.

In this case it's literally ripped assets.


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## KHEOPS (Aug 29, 2018)

Jesus, that boy is far better than me
Ah ah ah!!

In France we are small seeds, another world? we have talents, wonderboy remaster on switch it's french, we do not laugh with retrogaming and homebrew


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## Lazyboss (Aug 29, 2018)

Thats what will happen when you hired assholes to make changes.


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## DarkIrata (Aug 29, 2018)

Is Advanced Map still around?


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## spotanjo3 (Aug 29, 2018)

Nintendo shut it down because the fan game creator announced it easy for Nintendo to find it out or someone runs and tell Nintendo about it. Sad.


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## Carnelian (Aug 29, 2018)

And people keep defending them... Pathetic...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Chary said:


> Nintendo shows no mercy.



You obviously support them for that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ken28 said:


> i really like how people seems to think its only nintendo... if anything the peopel behind pokemon essentials should have known better.
> Years ago square among others filed dmca against several back then popular games for using game rips. The stance since then in the rpg makercommunity was that you should stay aways from game rips and use user made tilesets/chars/music/etc. Most devs did so... all but the pokemon essential users (some did user self made fakemons and graphics aswell as music but those are rare) and creators. So all in all it was bound to happen and they should have known it anyways (its nintendo, and it happened before in the scene)



"It's okay when it's Nintendo"


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## Chary (Aug 29, 2018)

Carnelian said:


> And people keep defending them... Pathetic...
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


That's a reach. How does me commenting on Nintendo being merciless even remotely get extrapolated to support of their actions? Maybe read further:



Chary said:


> Especially ironic that this is occurring during SAGE 2018. This really only puts Nintendo in a bad light, regardless of how you look at it.


----------



## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

Carnelian said:


> "It's okay when it's Nintendo"


if you cant say anything against them just lay words in their mouths, a classical tactic.

IF someone pirates a game he/She shouldnt be suprised to be caught.
If someone steals he/she shouldnt be suprised to get caught.
If someone steals your art/writing/music they shoudlnt be caught.

If thats the case i wonder why so many people freaked out about the stolen ign review?
Why where they mad? Where they just blended and defended the youtube for no legit reason but just cuase they where fanboys of him?


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Aug 29, 2018)

Carnelian said:


> And people keep defending them... Pathetic...



If someone took my art, put it into their project without my permission, then distributed it to thousands of people, I would be mad, too. Easy to hate when you only look at things from one side, though.


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## kingfrost (Aug 29, 2018)

B


ken28 said:


> if you cant say anything against them just lay words in their mouths, a classical tactic.
> 
> IF someone pirates a game he/She shouldnt be suprised to be caught.
> If someone steals he/she shouldnt be suprised to get caught.
> ...



I think that it's funny you mention the IGN because a large amount of people did defend him and supported him. I saw it on a lot of gaming sites and he actually stole for profit.

Of course people are going to take Nintendo's side here because they're fanboys but the interesting part here is that this had been happening for over a decade and no one did anything. Nintendo had sent cease and desist to other rom hacks so it is unlikely they just didn't know.

I think it's.bad to go after your own fan base even if a vocal group will defend you for it no matter what. This wasn't even piracy but more like game fanfiction.

I guess some people even think that's theft though


----------



## bobmcjr (Aug 29, 2018)

If you actually care, stop buying Nintendo products. Begging won't accomplish anything. They don't care. Their lawyers and shareholders don't care. Like most corporations, financial pressure is the only language they understand.

And for the people saying "they are allowed to protect their stuff", that doesn't change that takedowns of fan projects like this are undeniably a dick move.


----------



## ken28 (Aug 29, 2018)

kingfrost said:


> B
> 
> 
> I think that it's funny you mention the IGN because a large amount of people did defend him and supported him. I saw it on a lot of gaming sites and he actually stole for profit.
> ...


the problem is twofold.
For one parts it looks bad to go after them on the other hand where do you draw the line between a fangame and copyright infringement?
Imo Essential went to far towards an infringement not only did it replicate all game mechanics it also provided resources from all 2d pokemon games, They may would have gotten away with just replicating the mechanics but the use of arts put them in  a dangerous  gray area which now nintendo acted on.

Like i mentioned before nintendo doesnt seem to be persay against fangame or games obviously inspireted by their game as seen with legend maker (before dmca zelda maker) or games like ocean horn, blosom tale and crystal monster. The later being a total pokemon clone. All of those but legend maker are on a nintendo platform.

But speaking about legend maker, it will be interesting what will happen if they remove all ripped assets and change the name in a way thats it still clear what it is about.


----------



## FancyNintendoGamer567 (Aug 29, 2018)

Even though Pokèmon Maker did technically rip off assets from FR/LG. It's still sad to see even old plugins like this get DMCAd.


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## Alex4nder001 (Aug 29, 2018)

I no longer like Nintendo


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 29, 2018)

Closet Nerd said:


>


watcha, theyll take your signature down


----------



## Kurt91 (Aug 29, 2018)

Oh my God, this is so easy to fix.

Step 1: Go on 4Chan. They do "Fakemon" designs all the time. Throw a message up there stating what's going on, and request a handful of replacement designs. I'm certain that there's enough people who would be sympathetic enough to the cause to come up with a decent number of new copyright-free critters.

Step 2: Replace all of the Pokemon sprites with the new designs. Replace all of the overworld graphics with some generic RPG tileset. If I recall correctly, Pokemon doesn't do any weird perspective stuff like the 2D Zelda games do, so any generic tileset should suffice.

Step 3: Rename any reference to Pokemon battles and call it something like "Monster Trainer", or "Monster Battler".

There you go. Pokemon Essentials is saved, Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally as far as taking something like this down, and anybody who wants to make a Pokemon fan-game is still fully capable. Adding ripped tilesets is not difficult at all, just slightly time consuming if you go any further than just copy-paste from Spriter's Resource. Even then, adding graphics back into the engine is still a drop in the bucket compared to how much work it would take to do the rest of the fan-game.

Hell, it's not even too late to do all of this. We just need somebody with an existing copy willing to go through all the steps. I don't have a copy myself, and I haven't been able to get RPG Maker XP to work on my computers last time I tried. I got a crash every time I hit the play-test button. (Oddly enough, MV works fine, and I can get 2k3 to work well enough.)


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 29, 2018)

I've never heard of this before, so..


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 29, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> I've never heard of this before, so..


I downloaded it maybe one or two month ago 
Still have it


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 29, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> I downloaded it maybe one or two month ago
> Still have it



Okay...? But I still never heard of it, so yeah.


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 29, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Okay...? But I still never heard of it, so yeah.


ok... so i guess you dont want to test it?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Noctosphere said:


> ok... so i guess you dont want to test it?


unless its now considered warez?


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 29, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> ok... so i guess you dont want to test it?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



I don't know...


----------



## bluhacks (Aug 29, 2018)

First Pixelmon and now this?


----------



## Xandrid (Aug 29, 2018)

I hope it doesn't accidentally leak or something /s


----------



## Jayro (Aug 29, 2018)

If anyone needs v17.2 of Pokemon Essentials, the link is on my Twitter.

I'm @jayroscha

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



8BitWonder said:


> I was really worried for a second thinking that was AdvanceMap.
> Still sucks to see a tool like that be taken down though.


Archive it, if you want to preserve it.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 29, 2018)

Oh no, how am I going to find this old as dirt tool now? It's not like there isn't a million mirrors for it or something


----------



## ut2k4master (Aug 29, 2018)

Jayro said:


> If anyone needs v17.2 of Pokemon Essentials, the link is on my Twitter.


mega shows it as a 0 byte file


----------



## Darth Meteos (Aug 29, 2018)

jesus christ, nintendo
what a fucking shitshow
i almost wish they'd just released the wii u2 instead of the switch so they can just die already


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 29, 2018)

Darth Meteos said:


> jesus christ, nintendo
> what a fucking shitshow
> i almost wish they'd just released the wii u2 instead of the switch so they can just die already


I want vengeance too, but wii u2?
That's awful...
I wouldn't wish that to my worse enemy


----------



## Darth Meteos (Aug 29, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> I want vengeance too, but wii u2?
> That's awful...
> I wouldn't wish that to my worse enemy


it might have had rock band u2 on it as an ironic joke
i guess that's worth existing


----------



## gnmmarechal (Aug 30, 2018)

The hell? Fucking fuck.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Anyone got a mirror?


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 30, 2018)

gnmmarechal said:


> The hell? Fucking fuck.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Anyone got a mirror?


I still have it, but I'm a bit too lazy rn to upload it lol


----------



## gnmmarechal (Aug 30, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> I still have it, but I'm a bit too lazy rn to upload it lol


:'( y u do dis


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 30, 2018)

gnmmarechal said:


> :'( y u do dis


do what?
thats my point, im too lazy to do anything


----------



## Jayro (Aug 30, 2018)

ut2k4master said:


> mega shows it as a 0 byte file


I've fixed it.


----------



## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

Alright, in all honesty I'm fed up to the brink of Nintendo's bullshit. There's a difference between protecting your own IP like other companies do and abusing DMCA so much that you go against fanmade tech demos, small or unknown projects, 10 year old fangame kits and hackroms falling into fair use. Fuck 'em.


----------



## DJPlace (Aug 30, 2018)

not good....


----------



## Noctosphere (Aug 30, 2018)

Dont worry guys, it'll probably be re-released in few weeks with a different name


----------



## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> Dont worry guys, it'll probably be re-released in few weeks with a different name


That's usually the case, but I honestly doubt it considering it's a 10 year old RPG Maker resource kit... =/


----------



## Deleted member 377734 (Aug 30, 2018)

F***  MEMETENDO! 

Pokemon Dark Rising 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pokemon Stars


----------



## ken28 (Aug 30, 2018)

RattletraPM said:


> Alright, in all honesty I'm fed up to the brink of Nintendo's bullshit. There's a difference between protecting your own IP like other companies do and abusing DMCA so much that you go against fanmade tech demos, small or unknown projects, 10 year old fangame kits and hackroms falling into fair use. Fuck 'em.


I am quite sure ripping all assets from a game and using all those those isn't covered fair use. Or does fair use allow you to basicly copy a whole commercialy avaible book and spread it publicly on the net?


----------



## codezer0 (Aug 30, 2018)

So _in lieu of_:

Making proper games
finishing proper gamers
supporting existing 3DS user base rather than leaving them high and dry like they've done with every handheld since the original DS
revising the Switch in a relevant fashion, like making one with a user replaceable battery
They would rather C&D and sue. Really makes it hard to justify buying Nintendo hardware with this attitude. And somehow _not_ modding the crap out of it if I did, just to spite them.


----------



## dudephanith (Aug 30, 2018)

Let's the fan have more fun and creative way to play pokemon while u r already getting our money. zzzz


----------



## Deleted member 420418 (Aug 30, 2018)

This reminds me of the time i made a pokemon rom hack but it pains to me to see that they have taken it down because  nobody else will have the joy of creating one.


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## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

ken28 said:


> I am quite sure ripping all assets from a game and using all those those isn't covered fair use. Or does fair use allow you to basicly copy a whole commercialy avaible book and spread it publicly on the net?


You've misread my post. What I said is:


RattletraPM said:


> [...]that you go against fanmade tech demos, small or unknown projects, 10 year old fangame kits _*and*_ hackroms falling into fair use.


Mind the "and". Considering that usually hackroms are distributed in patches containing only no copyrighted material except maybe a few mentions of Pokémon names and characters then yes, that would fall into fair use.

Also, I've noticed that you tend to defend Nintendo a lot in this thread. Did you know that as a preventive measure Nintendo requires a console to read an usually encrypted version of their logo from a cartidge for it to boot on their consoles? That would be considered borderline illegal in a few different countries because of trademark and digital rights laws (and yes, they're the only ones that use such a dickhead "legal protection" as other companies use provably more effective cryptographic stuff) yet a few unlicensed companies such as Datel managed to bypass it by including it into their product without permission and sell their stuff, and even go beyond that with the ARDSi when they included the entire ROM header of several whitelisted DS games to bypass the DSi's cart blacklist.

Considering that fair use doesn't really apply with trademarks and stuff, ask yourself: why does Nintendo threat to take legal action with individuals and non profit small teams with way better intentions while they do nothing with Datel and similiar companies? Because they know Datel could afford a serious legal team and fight back in court while your random fangame creator wouldn't. Long story short, _*Nintendo is nothing short of a giant corporate bully.
*_
Think about this the next time you try to defend them 

EDIT: Oh and before anyone asks, Datel is not your random flashcart manufacturer. Their headquarters are in the UK. Again, if they aren't based in China, I wonder why they didn't try to take them down yet... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## ken28 (Aug 30, 2018)

RattletraPM said:


> You've misread my post. What I said is:
> 
> Mind the "and". Considering that usually hackroms are distributed in patches containing only no copyrighted material except maybe a few mentions of Pokémon names and characters then yes, that would fall into fair use.
> 
> ...


they did try to go against companys like dattel through back in the 90s they went against the maker of game genie but lost the case due game genie not infrining on any copyright or trademark of nintendo -> https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2013/01/15/the-strange-copyright-case-of-the-game-genie/.
I dont defend nintendo i dont deny that what they are doing is risking their relation with their fanbase. But let us face it no matter what you say, nintendo has all the rights to do so and once again its not only nintendo that do so (but that is something people like you like to ignore since it doesnt fit you agenda). It just that many nintendo fans are big cry babies and must announce it world wide if they get a dmca for using ripped assets or the use of trademarked names or chars in their game.
All who even do this should be prepared for it and most devs are.

It are also the devs that understand nintendo reason, its only the nintendo fans that cry like big babys once it happens and pretend nintendo has no right to do so... fair use bla bla bla.


----------



## Aldoria (Aug 30, 2018)

That is rude


----------



## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

ken28 said:


> they did try to go against companys like dattel through back in the 90s they went against the maker of game genie but lost the case due game genie not infrining on any copyright or trademark of nintendo -> https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2013/01/15/the-strange-copyright-case-of-the-game-genie/.
> I dont defend nintendo i dont deny that what they are doing is risking their relation with their fanbase. But let us face it no matter what you say, nintendo has all the rights to do so and once again its not only nintendo that do so (but that is something people like you like to ignore since it doesnt fit you agenda). It just that many nintendo fans are big cry babies and must announce it world wide if they get a dmca for using ripped assets or the use of trademarked names or chars in their game.
> All who even do this should be prepared for it and most devs are.
> 
> It are also the devs that understand nintendo reason, its only the nintendo fans that cry like big babys once it happens and pretend nintendo has no right to do so... fair use bla bla bla.


I already knew about Nintendo vs Game Genie and guess what, if you take a look at what they did then yup, everything's good and gravy, especially considering that very few licensed games at the time actually had a sane header, and the few that did only had very, VERY basic info about what's in the ROM and who made it. Hell, back then the maker code byte was set to 1 for Nintendo and 255 for everyone else! So no, GameGenie was not "forced" to walk into a legally grey area in order to make unlicensed carts like Datel does now because the console didn't require them to do so.

But wait, look at that... Nintendo requires to specify their license ID and sometimes a logo too now. And that's going on since right after the GameGenie vs Nintendo court case, of all things... Strange, right? It would also mean that Datel's case would indeed be different than GG's as they are required to use a different strategy to boot their carts and it would indeed mean that parts of copyrighted code or trademarked logos is inside their ROMs. But strangely enough, silence. Hmm...

So, moral of the story. If, as you say, "nintendo has all the rights to do so" then they should have all the rights to sue Datel into oblivion and set a new standard to establish the digital rights of a company. Afterall, not including shady flashcart makers, it's probably the single biggest copyright and trademark infringer of Nintendo in the west, and for profit of all things, so they'd be urged to do so no matter what, they're actually doing _financial damage_ to the company! But nothing's ever happened.

Well, I've already put up an explaination of why's that, but apparently I'm a "nintendo fan that cry like [a] big baby" (I'm mainly a PC gamer and only occasionally play on consoles) and I "pretend that nintendo has no right to do so" (as I've shown you in Datel's case they have all the rights and stuff, but they'd rather do nothing and go after the small fish) and I'm shouting over something that "it doesn't fit my agenda" (what I just told you right now has nothing to do with my agenda and would actually benefit Nintendo's but again, they'd rather do nothing). It's a bit like the other companies doing this are actually trying to protect their IP sometimes, while Nintendo is just objectively acting like a corporate bully afterall...


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## Wrathcaster (Aug 30, 2018)

Hahaha Nintendo angering it's fanbase yet again, are they trying to kill themselves?


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## pivix (Aug 30, 2018)

Maybe they plan to make a new game Super Pokemon Maker, just like they do with super mario maker xP?


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## FAST6191 (Aug 30, 2018)

RattletraPM said:


> Alright, in all honesty I'm fed up to the brink of Nintendo's bullshit. There's a difference between protecting your own IP like other companies do and abusing DMCA so much that you go against fanmade tech demos, small or unknown projects, 10 year old fangame kits and hackroms falling into fair use. Fuck 'em.


You reckon this, and all the other stuff they have done, would fall under fair use? I don't see how it would be.



RattletraPM said:


> Mind the "and". Considering that usually hackroms are distributed in patches containing only no copyrighted material except maybe a few mentions of Pokémon names and characters then yes, that would fall into fair use.
> 
> Also, I've noticed that you tend to defend Nintendo a lot in this thread. Did you know that as a preventive measure Nintendo requires a console to read an usually encrypted version of their logo from a cartidge for it to boot on their consoles? That would be considered borderline illegal in a few different countries because of trademark and digital rights laws (and yes, they're the only ones that use such a dickhead "legal protection" as other companies use provably more effective cryptographic stuff) yet a few unlicensed companies such as Datel managed to bypass it by including it into their product without permission and sell their stuff, and even go beyond that with the ARDSi when they included the entire ROM header of several whitelisted DS games to bypass the DSi's cart blacklist.
> 
> ...



The only hacks I have seen them go after were things like the pokemon one which had a full site and everything else, and if you read the legal notice for it then they focused primarily on that whole side of things. That is also a different discussion to the subject of this thread. Best not to muddy the waters.

The logo and datel stuff is tricky. On the other hand you have Sega vs Accolade (relevant part here was is your "security" key is your trademarked logo then it does not count as trademark infringement), on the other I don't know where the DMCA falls on this as far as protections. In any case such a thing gets hard to prove damages for -- it is not like you can pop in your AR and play the game it pretends to be. The subject of this thread reuses their assets by the sounds of things which again is a different matter.


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## Metoroid0 (Aug 30, 2018)

Now they showed to those naughty modders!
Now there will be nooo other sources to download this mod from!
Nintendo is so smart!!

Am i right or am i right?!


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## DarthDub (Aug 30, 2018)

Good. A little slow for Nintendo though.. Square Enix hit people for using copyrighted assets in the past, yet noone talks about cause it's magically bad cause it's Nintendo? Gotta love outrage culture.


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## Metoroid0 (Aug 30, 2018)

Marco_Buns said:


> Nintendo is going hard this year


Yeah, they're finally doing a "fan service"! 






--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

This is really not about piracy or legal stuff. its about people having fun and learning to program in their private time, not even wanting to make money of off it. Many young and older people that have passion for pokemons, can learn to code, create with these tools, and get into that world. I dont get with what head is nintendo thinking and i dobt care taht "they have every right", this is not about that (for them it is)...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DarthDub said:


> Good. A little slow for Nintendo though.. Square Enix hit people for using copyrighted assets in the past, yet noone talks about cause it's magically bad cause it's Nintendo? Gotta love outrage culture.


I dont see this as good for their immage among gamers, and shifting weight to square enix doesnt make this a good move from nintendo.


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## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> You reckon this, and all the other stuff they have done, would fall under fair use? I don't see how it would be.


Everything? No. But in many cases, yes - starting from the Nintendo Creators Program on YouTube and going all the way to No Mario's Sky.



FAST6191 said:


> The only hacks I have seen them go after were things like the pokemon one which had a full site and everything else, and if you read the legal notice for it then they focused primarily on that whole side of things. That is also a different discussion to the subject of this thread. Best not to muddy the waters.


Maybe they did it because having a site boasts your popularity and so they've attracted Nintendo's attention, but it might also be because that's the only legal hook they might've had in some situations. Unless they've sometimes edited the tilesets to include the Pokémon logo somewhere else than where it was in the original ROM, not even that's included in a patch, while it's very likely that it's shown in its entirety on a fan website (of course sometimes other copyrighted characters and stuff appear too). That's a very similiar caveat to what they've used to try and take Freeshop down a while ago afterall (which in itself didn't contain any copyrighted code, but let's be honest, they had all the right to block it being a piracy tool and all).



FAST6191 said:


> The logo and datel stuff is tricky. On the other hand you have Sega vs Accolade (relevant part here was is your "security" key is your trademarked logo then it does not count as trademark infringement), on the other I don't know where the DMCA falls on this as far as protections. In any case such a thing gets hard to prove damages for -- it is not like you can pop in your AR and play the game it pretends to be. The subject of this thread reuses their assets by the sounds of things which again is a different matter.


As far as damages go, there's a very real economic damage here. It might not have to do with modding or assets but Datel is indeed making Nintendo lose money by eluding their developer licensing program which is arguably one of its biggest sources of income after console & game sales and investors. About the ROM header, fair use determines a percentage of a work that you can copy without legal repercussions (usually 10%-15% or a smaller part of something) - after that, it's copyright infringment. If we consider a ROM a "Numerical data set" (as it cannot be a movie, text, musical piece or illustration) in the US you'd have to copy 10% or 2,500 "fields" (whichever is less) to fall into fair use and if we consider "fields" as bytes in the ARDSi's case, the header they've taken from Game & Watch Collection is way bigger than 2500 bytes. And that's not even taking into account possible legal repercussions from copying the license ID and logo!

So, yeah. I didn't do the math for Pokémon Essentials' case and truth be told, it might exceed fair use by a far larger margin. But at the same time, if they really are the good guys like some people are showing them to be, wouldn't they go after Datel too which is a far bigger threat to them?


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## Skittyusedcovet (Aug 30, 2018)

Ive been so busy lately and come back to check on temp and find this. Rip Pokemon Essentials. I had to find it and study it for personal reasons. lol I guess if you know where to look you will be happy to see it. I wont say much more than that.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 30, 2018)

While I find many other issues with the pokemon hack in question that legal hook is big and solid. Don't see that one as tenuous or reaching. The hack aspect of it is almost incidental in the case in question, I might agree that legally speaking it was reaching to try to take out the ROM hack itself with it but such is the nature of an opening salvo (if you want validation of your bully line then I guess that will have to be it). If they had released it boringly like every other pokemon ROM hack then I might have more to say.

Freeshop wise. Hacking and piracy tools have a weird history here, I don't know what I would be able to look at though I am not entirely sure what I would look at for "substantial non infringing uses" which seems to be the main choice phrase in such discussions.

"Datel is indeed making Nintendo lose money by eluding their developer licensing program"
Irrelevant. Many cases have said if you can get it in there by your own means then carry on (again sega vs accolade). There has to be another aggravating factor (see Atari Games Corp. v. Nintendo of America Inc. -- Atari had obtained the SDK and reverse engineered that to bypass protections) before things get to be smacked down on that front.
Now whether you would want to release a product knowing it could be blocked by a simple update is a different matter, and I don't see Datel as having any recourse in that instance, but as far as the law goes then I am going with the above.

I do not see percentage being relevant here, nor have I seen a hard guideline as to what counts beyond those music sampling cases which also do not appear relevant to this discussion. If you can't play the ROM and the work derives no creative, artistic or technical* merit from it (fields in which I would expect percentages to play a role) and instead it functions solely as a security key then no harm done beyond whatever the DMCA might want to barge in on. If it was 100% of the game (or functional equivalent thereof, or substantial equivalent thereof) and by some quirk it could end up being played then I could see a legal headache a la the hot coffee thing, this does not appear to be that though.

*for the sake of clarity I see a game has a really nice background scrolling routine . Disassemble, copy, paste...


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## kingfrost (Aug 30, 2018)

DarthDub said:


> Good. A little slow for Nintendo though.. Square Enix hit people for using copyrighted assets in the past, yet noone talks about cause it's magically bad cause it's Nintendo? Gotta love outrage culture.



Actually Square did get feedback about that and a lot of people were upset when they threatened the CHRONO Trigger fan make project into the ground. That's just been a while but in that Fandom it still gets talked about a lot.

Funny you mention Square though as most of the positive feedback they've gotten recently is from Nintendo fans for Octopath Traveler as overall they have a pretty bad reputation. Definitely worse than Nintendo for now and for more, like their half ass pc ports.

Gotta love deflection though.


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## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> While I find many other issues with the pokemon hack in question that legal hook is big and solid. Don't see that one as tenuous or reaching. The hack aspect of it is almost incidental in the case in question, I might agree that legally speaking it was reaching to try to take out the ROM hack itself with it but such is the nature of an opening salvo (if you want validation of your bully line then I guess that will have to be it). If they had released it boringly like every other pokemon ROM hack then I might have more to say.
> 
> Freeshop wise. Hacking and piracy tools have a weird history here, I don't know what I would be able to look at though I am not entirely sure what I would look at for "substantial non infringing uses" which seems to be the main choice phrase in such discussions.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying about the websites, in fact when it comes to websites alone, what Nintendo's doing would be somewhat understandable. Still, if infringing assets on the website such as logos and the like, they could've asked the team to take down just those: the DMCA doesn't force somebody to take down an entire website, server or project just because a few copyrighted assets are involved. Think about the many videos on YouTube, unless the whole purpose of the video was to illegally upload music then only the audio would me muted. Yet, many a times Nintendo asked "violators" to not only to disable server access entirely but also to take down any and all projects even remotely linked to it, meaning that the end goal was indeed to take down the hacks. Remember: if they only wanted to take down or even change the website and "push the hack back underground", the DMCA would allow them to do so, whilst keeping to protect their IPs and all. It's not a far fetched idea as some would think.

About the "get in there by your own means part" I legitimately didn't know that so I stand corrected. One might say that in Nintendo's specific case the logo found in the ROM header is usually an image and copying a trademarked logo is a trademark violation as clear as day, but hey. For the sake of this argument I'm going to assume it's going to be treated as a pure, numerical security key and not continue this argument, otherwise we'd go down a huge legal clusterfuck of stuff which probably no one has a clear answer to. I'm all for fair and pacific discussion (unless I get called names like I have not too long ago by that other guy) but I hope you understand my point here! 

For fair use, well, it varies from country to country so it's hard to say. Where I live, for example, we do have some regulations for specific stuff. For example, not directly related to digital stuff but it's one of the better examples, you're allowed to copy 15% of a book max. legally as you don't resell the copy in question. In the USA, these look like the regulations for all mediums (these rules seem to be cited by other sources aswell). I cited the other mediumbs because, simply put, a ROM header cannot be considered anything in the list but a big array of numbers, thus falling into the "numerical data set" category. It could be relevant because again, while it could've been considered derivative or transformational work, if it does not fall into fair use then it can be considered a copyright violation, no matter if the game is playable or not. Afterall, if that wasn't the case then I could upload per se non-functional bits of data from games and be done with it - like for example the emulator part of a 3DS VC title and leaving the ROM behind (without the banner and other stuff so it wouldn't even be bootable on a real console) - but instead that's not legal!


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## FAST6191 (Aug 30, 2018)

They could have, however some might see it as a tacit endorsement of a hack and they can't be seen to be doing that really.

The trademarked logo thing was also part of the sega vs accolade stuff (I even mentioned that one in the reply prior to that).

Numerical data sets is more along the lines of a database, results of an experiment... something which might have taken skill, time, effort, money... to put together. Database rights are an interesting one as these things go actually and technically you don't have many rights. Classic example being you have a list of every house in a town and sell that info to local businesses for their marketing, while I might not be able to copy your book word for word I can drive around the town, note every address and sell my own copy of what is identical data quite happily. However if someone steals yours then you can get them for that, typically you would do this by including 123 fake street in there and my lazy copying self would not think to take it out*. Anyway back on topic the emulator example would not work -- plaintext emulator code that can run is still code someone made in what is presumably function form but for the document (if I alter the auto open document in something have I made a new program?).

*it can also leak to amusing cases like that of Agloe. Short version of that is fictitious town added by a map maker to catch copycats, someone eventually came alone and stuck some houses there, wondered if the place had a name and wouldn't you know.. https://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/03/agloe-fake-town-that-became-real_19.html

On the flip side a few years back various keys for HDDVD leaked. While their distribution was brought into question it was fairly firmly established they were not a copyrightable work in and of themselves. This would be where I look for that.


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## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> They could have, however some might see it as a tacit endorsement of a hack and they can't be seen to be doing that really.
> 
> The trademarked logo thing was also part of the sega vs accolade stuff (I even mentioned that one in the reply prior to that).
> 
> ...


Eh, about the hack then there's still the argument that Sega allows them pretty much all the time. It's not really that they can't be seen doing that, it's more like they're stubborn as hell when it comes to emulators and romhacks.

Still, for the tradermark, I admit I haven't read that much about the Sega vs Accolade case (yet, looks interesting) but from the glimpse I've seen it looks like it's a bit different than what Nintendo's doing (I read it was mostly about the TMSS screen and the absence of a logo). But still, point taken.

And finally, about numerical data set, I get it: I knew about the fake addresses in maps and fake words in dictionaries, but I didn't know stuff such as maps would fall into that category (I blame language barriers... ). I wouldn't really know where games would legally fall then, maybe each part of the game has to be considered differently? I made it clear for the emulator example to not include the banner so it wouldn't be functional on the target system and at the same time you wouldn't be able to extract a working ROM for use on other systems (either of the VC emulator itself or of the emulated title). That way you're left with, well, just the "skeleton" the code. It could work if you add these missing parts but you'd have to fetch them somewhere else in order for it to be working.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 30, 2018)

Sega has something of an agreement in place that would mitigate some of the trademark genericide woes but allow hacks to come into the light. As far as I am aware Nintendo has none and is under no obligation to have one, and in this case have chosen to do business this way.

Computer games are multi medium works and thus both able to use and prone to the quirks of each of those. Different mediums have different things associated with them -- we just discussed the map and database thing. Or if you prefer there is a reason film makers still have to pay for music even if their film is mostly a visual affair, 10 times longer than the song (possibly 100 times the length of the clip they want to play). Computer code is a fun one as there are limited ways to reasonably do tasks so if something happens to be the same as someone else then looks like you have two good coders, if it can be demonstrated to be copied though (tricky but popular ones are matching bugs, matching quirks that would not normally be done, matching function names...) then problems arise.

A raw emulator is a raw emulator. Banner matters little here. ROM matters little other than maybe some kind of double the fun if you inject something else copyrighted into it. Not working as is would not be a defence if it is trivial to make something work again (adding a banner would be, adding a ROM typically is as well). Practically speaking it is not a whole lot different to inverting a file (every 0 is a 1, every 1 is a 0) and calling it a new file. Back to the matter at hand you could probably make an example of where something walks the line (the thing with the game ending up playable by some quirk being a potential one from where I sat) but that one was not one that I could go with.

To that end when Datel copied a chunk of game I presume they only took as much as was necessary (possibly a debatable amount), and derived nothing from the chunk beyond getting the system to launch their own code. There was no intention or serious incompetence that caused people to be potentially able to derive some enjoyment from whatever code they copied, nobody then saying haha I shall buy an AR instead of this game as I can still enjoy all the meat of the game, and thus it was functionally just a version of the logo issue that Sega vs Accolade had handled however many years before. The DMCA might still try to say something.


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## RattletraPM (Aug 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Sega has something of an agreement in place that would mitigate some of the trademark genericide woes but allow hacks to come into the light. As far as I am aware Nintendo has none and is under no obligation to have one, and in this case have chosen to do business this way.
> 
> Computer games are multi medium works and thus both able to use and prone to the quirks of each of those. Different mediums have different things associated with them -- we just discussed the map and database thing. Or if you prefer there is a reason film makers still have to pay for music even if their film is mostly a visual affair, 10 times longer than the song (possibly 100 times the length of the clip they want to play). Computer code is a fun one as there are limited ways to reasonably do tasks so if something happens to be the same as someone else then looks like you have two good coders, if it can be demonstrated to be copied though (tricky but popular ones are matching bugs, matching quirks that would not normally be done, matching function names...) then problems arise.
> 
> ...


Alrighty, understood. This last post was very informative (and yeah, I admit I've misunderstood what you were saying about the emulator).
About Datel, well, this old post from the HackMii blog also made me realize that Datel copied a lot more than I originally realized. And I really mean A LOT. The original ROM contains around 1.30 MB of code (I'm not taking into account free space left in the ROM) and if a NDS header is only around 1024 bytes big (max.), well, Datel has copied a grand total 912 Kb. That's around 70% of the entire game's data!

So, yeah. Maybe they won't complain about it in court because you can't boot that game and all but if they actually decide to prosecute one day, DMCA might have a field day with that one!


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## AkikoKumagara (Aug 30, 2018)

Metoroid0 said:


> Now they showed to those naughty modders!
> Now there will be nooo other sources to download this mod from!
> Nintendo is so smart!!
> 
> Am i right or am i right?!



This isn't a mod. It's a tool to create RPG Maker games that contains dozens of sprites and assets ripped for the DS (and maybe GBA) series of games. Mods, or "ROM hacks" don't tend to be taken down as long as they're distributed (NOT BY SALE) as patches and aren't redistributing copyrighted data.


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## TJHeartnote (Aug 30, 2018)

Whelp time to start archiving what the wayback machine got and packaging it up with the final release.


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## XDel (Aug 30, 2018)

No loss really, Pokemon is redundant and lacks depth. 

Now a Phantasy Star classic kit on the other hand...


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## chartube12 (Aug 30, 2018)

Nintendo’s just sour over the tool being made older then Ashe


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## LuxerWap (Aug 30, 2018)

A lot of people in the comments are salty as fuck...

Keep it up, Nintendo. You are doing well.


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## Yaro (Aug 30, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Or maybe fan games should do their -own- work and not steal other's?



Don't this defeat purpose of fan game? Or you mean they should draw pikachoo and others themselve for that? Hm.....



Sophie-bear said:


> Stealing and redistributing assets is not very creative, though, lol. Creativity would implicate you make your own.



They make they own - levels/maps, encounters, story/dialogues, perhaps music. It's basically like with mods for doom or half-life, though in that case base content exist in game and fan adds levels to that, while in case with poke (or, for example, any CROSSOVER fangames) they make a base from ripped stuff first, which is then used as base.


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## Tigran (Aug 30, 2018)

Yaro said:


> Don't this defeat purpose of fan game? Or you mean they should draw pikachoo and others themselve for that? Hm.....
> 
> 
> 
> They make they own - levels/maps, encounters, story/dialogues, perhaps music. It's basically like with mods for doom or half-life, though in that case base content exist in game and fan adds levels to that, while in case with poke (or, for example, any CROSSOVER fangames) they make a base from ripped stuff first, which is then used as base.



Does it defeat the purpose of a fan game? Depends on what the purpose is... Pretty sure Freedom planet didn't defeat the purpose. Not sure Stardew Valley did either.

And no.. This would be the same as me taking all the lines of a book, and separating them, then saying "You can put them together however you like." believe me.. that would get slapped with plagiarism in a hurry.


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## Yaro (Aug 30, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Depends on what the purpose is... Pretty sure Freedom planet didn't defeat the purpose.



Many fan games are about making new stories for loved characters.

Freedom Planet is "inspired by sonic", but not "something from fans that they do about sonic".

(also, FP and SW are commercial products instead. Or were they not at start?)


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## RedBlueGreen (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm surprised they went after this instead of the Pokémon browser games and MMOs.


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## Tigran (Aug 30, 2018)

Yaro said:


> Many fan games are about making new stories for loved characters.
> 
> Freedom Planet is "inspired by sonic", but not "something from fans that they do about sonic".
> 
> (also, FP and SW are commercial products instead. Or were they not at start?)



Freedom Planet specifically started as a Sonic Fan game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Planet


and don't fool yourself, things like Pokemon Uranium were commercial products, because they made money off adds on their website.


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## Yaro (Aug 30, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Freedom Planet specifically started as a Sonic Fan game.



I see. They saw potential and decided to make "their own thing". While most fangame authors don't care and instead just do that "ok i download megaman and kingdom hearts sprites, now i insert it in game maker omg omg i make game omg!". Though again need to say plenty of those are at school age or smth, and not "guys who got $ from ads on site".


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## AkikoKumagara (Aug 31, 2018)

Yaro said:


> They make they own - levels/maps, encounters, story/dialogues, perhaps music. It's basically like with mods for doom or half-life, though in that case base content exist in game and fan adds levels to that, while in case with poke (or, for example, any CROSSOVER fangames) they make a base from ripped stuff first, which is then used as base.



Exactly, the latter portion explains why this is different the modding an existing game; but the part missing is the redistribution of the ripped assets, which is what Nintendo's DMCA attempts to halt. Not going to get into how effective this kind of move generally is, I just don't think they're the bad guys for doing it.


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## The Real Jdbye (Aug 31, 2018)

Didn't know it had been out that long, I never heard of it until after Pokemon Uranium was released so I thought they were publicly released around the same time. It is a really solid Pokemon engine, too bad it was taken down, but I doubt that's going to stop anyone. Vinemon is made in it too, I hope they won't abandon it cause that seems like a solid double fangame.

All they really have to do is replace the ripped assets with custom ones, and change the name to something else, but then it won't be a Pokemon fangame engine anymore, just a Pokemon-like engine. But there's nothing preventing people from adding those assets back in themselves if they want to, or making a separate pack with the Pokemon assets.


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## goldensun87 (Aug 31, 2018)

So, is the Switch hacked wide open yet?  Can't wait to pirate more games out of pure spite.


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## tehrzky (Sep 1, 2018)

Sega is different they encourage modders. look at Street of Rage:Remake (fan made). Sonic Mania

i hope nintendo dont sue people has Zelda Name. (like robin williams daughter)


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## Yaro (Sep 1, 2018)

tehrzky said:


> Zelda Name



but..

*Zelda* is a nickname for the feminine name Griselda,[1] which may originally have meant "dark battle",[2] and also the feminine form of the Yiddish name Selig,[1] meaning "blessed", "happy".[3]

*Contents*

1 People
2 Fictional characters
3 See also
4 References
*People*

Sean N. Zelda, musician who founded the band We Came as Romans
Zelda Fichandler (1924–2016), American director and educator
Zelda Fitzgerald (1900–1948), American writer; wife of F. Scott Fitzgerald
Zelda Harris (born 1985), American actress
Zelda Kahan (1886–1969), British communist
Zelda Kaplan (1917–2012), American socialite
Zelda La Grange (born 1970), former private secretary to President Nelson Mandela
Zelda McCague (1888–2001), Canadian supercentenarian
Zelda Schneersohn Mishkovsky (1914–1984), (pen-name "Zelda"), Israeli poet, notable writer of Hebrew religious poetry
Zelda Nolte, South African-British sculptor
Zelda Popkin (1898–1983), American mystery novelist
Zelda Rubinstein (1933–2010), American actress
Zelda Sears (1873–1935), American entertainer
Zelda the brain, a female professional wrestler from the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling
Zelda Wynn Valdes (1905–2001), African-American fashion designer and costumer
Zelda Williams (born 1989), American actress and daughter of Robin Williams
Zelda Zonk, a pseudonym used by Marilyn Monroe (1926–1962)
*Fictional characters*



Princess Zelda, in _The Legend of Zelda_ video game series

Zelda Gilroy, in the 1959–1963 TV series _The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis_

Zelda Reginhard, in the anime and manga series _Lotte no Omocha!_

Zelda Spellman, Sabrina's aunt in _Sabrina, the Teenage Witch_

Zelda Spooner, in Billy Wilder's 1964 comedy film _Kiss Me, Stupid_

Zelda, the main villainess in the 1998 direct-to-video film _The Swan Princess: The Mystery of the Enchanted Kingdom_

Zelda, the main villainess in the British TV series _Terrahawks_

Zelda, the dog mascot of _Nickelodeon Magazine_

Zelda, in Stephen King's book _Pet Semetary_ and the film adaptation

Zelda Schiff, Head Librarian in _The Magicians (U.S. TV series)_


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## nintendo1889 (Sep 2, 2018)

why can't the creators provides patches/diffs from the official games?


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## Noctosphere (Sep 2, 2018)

If Nintendo shuts down this, they should really release a program/game to make our own pokemon games and share them online
However, I think this program would be suited for PC only, I mean, to download others games
it would saturate your HDD/SD card on switch
And if it only suits for PC, well, I bet Nintendo won'T even think about releasing it...
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think they never released any 1st party games on PC, right?


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## goldensun87 (Sep 2, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think they never released any 1st party games on PC, right?


Correct.  Which is very annoying to me now.  I want to be able to play those Nintendo IPs at 1080p 60 fps, and be able to record with Shadowplay.


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