# Messed up Pokemon movies...



## Blaze163 (Dec 25, 2012)

Good evening/morning (it's 2:47 AM here, so you can go either way really) everyone. With it being Christmas Day now and with my friends all elsewhere or with their families, I'm extremely bored. So I'm sat watching the Pokemon movies on my netbook, as barring the 'Phantom Pokemon' feature length tv special and the new movie about Kyurem, which to my knowledge is only in Japanese at the moment, I have a complete set. And I've started noticing that for kids films, they'r....well, they're pretty fucked up. Here's a short list of what I've noticed so far that when you think about it, it shouldn't be anywhere near what is in essence a set of kids films. And yes, it is incredibly sad to be sat watching pokemon movies at 3AM on Christmas Day if you're 25. Don't judge me, damn it. We all have problems.

Oh, and obviously, spoilers for more or less all the pokemon films. Doubt that really needed saying but hey, at least my ass is covered now.

- Violence. Now, with a lot of the series being based around battling, it's kinda hard to avoid fighting in these movies. But they can get really quite dark at times. Mewtwo flat out kills Ash in the First Movie, pretty much. There are a lot of times when the villains go way too far. It's strange, as the most iconic is of course Team Rocket's Giovanni, but he clearly only intends to control pokemon, and then the world (Insert Nostalgia Critic 'Of course!' clip HERE), but while he causes harm to Mewtwo in the special 'Mewtwo Returns', he never actually intended to do any lasting harm, merely break his will. Some of the later villains have flat out intent to kill. They're insane. Zero from 'Giratina and the Sky Warrior' almost takes out several towns and doesn't even care, The Collector from 2000 can see that Lugia is already under a lot of pressure but only cares about his own goals and therefore attacks Lugia, even though Ash is riding on Lugia at the time. They're just a little TOO evil for cartoon villains, you know?

- Animal cruelty. Yeah, we've all heard the jokes about Pokeballs being airtight, but hear me out. As the films go on, they get darker and darker in tone, until we get to Zoroark Master Of Illusion, in which the villain grabs hold of both Zorua and Celebi during the film and damn near chokes the life out of both of them. Pokemon battles always seem to be more of a sporting contest than any serious attempt to cause harm, as seen in the credit rolls for many of the films when Ash battles various trainers but everyone's teams are always fine afterwards, usually sharing some of Brock's cooking in the earlier films. To see the villain attempting to kill what is on all levels a small furry animal seems a little too....mean spirited, to say the least.

- Death. While death is sort of seen in the games with Lavender town (most jarring childhood experience ever...), it's never really had much weight to it. It's hinted at, but rarely actually seen. Although from what I recall of the anime from my youth, Ash had a nasty habit of dying every now and then. But the films...wow. First Movie, Ash is turned to stone, presumed dead. Second, he nearly drowns. Third, Entei flat out threatens to kill Charizard. Fourth, Celebi arguably dies, even if it is revived shortly afterwards. We get to movie 5, Heroes Latias and Latios, and one of the primary pokemon characters actually dies for good right at the end. Heroic death, sure. But you expect a miraculous revival, and it never comes. The movie gives a giant middle finger to your expectations and leaves the thing dead. A little harsh, don't you think?

- Sexual content. Oh yeah, I went there. We all see Brock's endless failed attempts to score, which in and of themselves are rather worrying, but Ash himself is portrayed as something of a player at times. There's an obvious 'will they wont they' going on with Misty for the first few films, and she herself mentions the possibility that ther might be something more than friends to them in 2000, a sentiment Ash later echoes by referring to Misty in Jirachi Wishmaker. But then you have the strange moment in Ranger and The Temple Of The Sea where May and Ash are swimming, and Ash catches a glance of May surrounded by heart-shaped fish. What gives? It was never really hinted at before in any of their movies. She's just sort of....there. There certainly wasn't as much as there was with Misty.

But the worst thing I've noticed on this subject comes from the third movie 'Spell Of The Unknown', which itself is REALLY fucked up. Insane crystal dream world under the control of a six year old girl with deep psychological issues? Seriously, watch it if you haven't already and tell me you're not just a touch creeped out by the kinda jarring tonal shift from the peaceful green world of normal Pokemon life to the insanity of the crystal world. But I digress. Watch the scene in this movie where the kids reach the Pokemon centre and Ash is unexpectedly reunited with Professor Oak and his mother, Delia Ketchum. Delia steps out of the van and Pikachu runs up to her, and she picks him (it? pretty sure Pikachu was confirmed to be male but even Ash called Pikachu 'it' more often than not) up, giving Pikachu a hug as she talks to Ash. WATCH PIKACHU CAREFULLY. He blatantly cops a feel off Delia. He very visibly squeezes her chest. Her shirt even wrinkles to make it obvious. Now THAT is fucked up. So fucked up is inspired me to create this topic.

Overall, the movies are pretty decent up to a point, although once the Black and White era rolled around they REALLY seemed to be losing it if you ask me. But every now and then I notice these strange out of place aspects to them that seem a little....off, for kids movies. Which is what these films were surely intended as. For kids animated movies, they deal with some surprisingly heavy issues like death, loss, parental responsibility (Ranger), obsession, etc. While they do seem a touch out of place, in a way they kind of work, since I'm sure most of the intended age group probably don't notice, or don't understand enough to be affected all that much. But these darker aspects give the movies a broader appeal as they still contain a little something for older fans. The tone shifts get by because of the colourful visuals, but if they'd been done in live action, they'd have been pretty disturbing films.

Also, Pikachu feeling Delia's boobs is just wrong. Especially when, to my knowledge, we still don't know who Ash's father is :/

Comments? Opinions from fellow movie fans? Anyone think it might be interesting to see the games change tone to something a little more broad in scope? You gotta admit, the games seem a bit tame compared to the movies. I'd like to see some of the darker aspects of the movies carry over into a new generation of Pokemon games. Give us older fans something deeper than simple badge collection and the Elite Four.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 25, 2012)

What is this, I don't even.



Spoiler



Aren't we reading a little too far into it?


----------



## Blaze163 (Dec 25, 2012)

I don't think so. This is all based on what I've been sat watching the last few nights. And if a psycho trying to choke a Celebi to death isn't too dark for a kids cartoon, I can only assume that modern kids are pretty messed up.

And I've had the whole 'Pikachu feels up Ash's Mom' thing confirmed by my friends, they all see it too and it's creepy...


----------



## gamefan5 (Dec 25, 2012)

What is this?? I actually LOLED at the sexual content part. XD
... I have only one thing to say...

Ooooooooookkkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyy......


----------



## Cuelhu (Dec 25, 2012)

Japan's concept of childish or 'kid proof content' is pretty different to the West, but if a movie have a fairly decent plot it can't be viewed by children? You can't have them inside a bubble for their entire life. Pokémon's original target audience age plays mostly CoD and Halo these days anyway.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 25, 2012)

Someone's going to post this anyways, so I might as well do it:



Official Rule 63, everyone.

Pokemon is a Japanese cartoon based on a Japanese game, and that's their sense of humour. Fair play, the episode is banned in most countries, but nevertheless it exists. My point is, that's their sense of humour - it's not weird at all.

As for animal cruelty, in the games themselves we could see Team Rocket removing and selling Slowpoke tails... from living Slowpokes, mind you.

Japan is what it is - a quirky and fun country with standards very different from those in the west. It's always been like it.  Pokemon content, as shocking as it may be in the west sometimes is entirely acceptable, if not even "mild" in Japan.


----------



## Fear Zoa (Dec 25, 2012)

You know children tend to take "Adult" themes a lot better then most people seem to think. Also there's nothing wrong with pokemon, there is always stuff in cartoon that seems rather fucked up if you look too much into it.

The pokemon anime will never be as bad as the manga, the manga just sort of does whatever it wants.


----------



## Blaze163 (Dec 25, 2012)

I know about the cultural difference, I'm simply pointing out that when I was a kid, the most violent thing on my tv screen was Power Rangers, and you KNEW they'd win, and death was little more than a temporary setback. By comparison, the Pokemon movies can be surprisingly dark in tone, and I found myself a little stunned by some of what they do. Not to say it's by any means bad, I agree that kids shouldn't be wrapped up in cotton wool, but it seems to go a touch too far at times. The choking thing especially.

EDIT: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST WITNESS?!

That video is just....wrong. So very very wrong. That's...that's arguably the wrongest thing I've seen in my life. That will haunt me until the day I die.


----------



## astrangeone (Dec 25, 2012)

Well, from what I know, the manga versions of the Pokemon series are quite a good bit darker.  Pokemon die (there was one instance of an Arbok being sliced into two pieces), the sexual content is a lot more...perverse.  (Apparently they gave Misty a scene in a hot spring in which she's fondling her breasts, and saying that she wishes they would...evolve.)  *snicker*  One of the things attributed to the Japanese/original manga was the fact that one of the illustrators used to draw...hentai.  (You know, Japanese porn.)  If you search for the original Japanese versions of the Pokemon manga, you'd see the character designs completely changed...for more erotic reasons.

My source:


The fact that the anime movies have gotten darker are probably because of the censorship being relaxed (yes, Japanese culture is very different in terms of sexuality, death and portrayals of both), and the audience getting older.  We (as an older audience) notice things that are slightly off.  (Pikachu copping a feel of Delia is actually kind of funny - he probably doesn't see her as sexual, but just likes her and just happened to hug her.)

Personal opinion time:  I really don't like the Misty and Ash "relationship" angle.  Misty was first portrayed as a really competitive gym leader, and Ash is kind of the equivlent of the "dabbler".  Why would someone fall in love and actually validate the relationship?  (Japanese anime always seems to make fun of an older man who "fails to score" with the ladies - see Brock and to a bigger extent, Master Roshi from the Dragonball series.)

Also, I stopped watching the Pokemon movies after the Curse of the Unown.  Pokemon always had that element of the surreal to me, combined with the idea of exploring unknown areas and finding rare Pokemon.   This was probably the best movie to date, as it developed deeper characters and other things.  The only other movie related thing I liked was the short in which the Pokemon got to play in a theme park and wrecked havoc.


----------



## astrangeone (Dec 25, 2012)

I also thought the Celebi movie was kind of weak, in that the character doesn't stay dead, but has deux ex machina (hello, other time traveling celebi!) rescue it.  It could have been the turning point of the villain - that he saw that his willingness to harness celebi's powers hurt other people or pokemon.


----------



## Blaze163 (Dec 25, 2012)

I find it odd that the movies have grown and moved on, becoming more adult in theme to give the original audience something more to their tastes, yet the games stay true to the same setup and the same child-friendly tone. If the movies can include something for everyone, shouldn't the games strive to do that too? I've been playing since Red and frankly I'm tired of the constant stream of badges being the central focus, not to mention some other massively annoying things. Example:

- How many people in the Pokemon games are essentially pointless, only saying things like 'aren't pokemon wonderful?', like some sinister brainwashing attempt. We get it, pokemon are great. You don't need to have your head stuck so far up your own arse you can taste lung, Nintendo.

- Why are some of the roads between towns so woefully short? Play Emerald and go from Mauville town to Verdanturf. Wow. What an epic adventure of...about 3 screens. Hell, a lot of the towns are basically just a gym, the pokemon centre and maybe two houses. Give the games more scope. Make us feel like a part of the world, because to me the towns being so empty and the people mostly pointless rips any sense of emersion right out of me.

- We're promised big steps forward in every new game, but it usually boils down to the pokemon being slightly more animated than before, and maybe you can have an extra one in battle, as the double battle as woefully underused (although I'm playing a hack called Emerald 386 and they do show up enough to be at least noteworthy there) but the triple battle shows up maybe once in a blue moon and the dynamics never really seemed to change much anyway. I don't feel any change from the standard one on one, there's no tactical shift for me, it's still just a matter of 'pick strongest attack, watch enemy faint'. Only now I'm doing it three times per round instead of one or two. Big whup.

I just think the games could learn some pretty solid lessons from the films and anime. Sure, Ash is on a quest to be a Master (surely to God he's won at least one championship by now?) but it doesn't stop him having endless adventures on his way. Give us something to do other than collecting badges and stopping the next Team Rocket wannabes. Hell, in the movies Team Rocket are just kinda....there. After a point they stopped being actively involved in the plot and are mostly only present for the sake of tradition, by the look of it. I saw that GameFreak want to 'evolve the franchise' in the coming year. Here's your chance.

But enough about my opinions. What would you want to see change in the games? Would you prefer a more broad-reaching tone? Perhaps something more story driven, with deeper characters? Fuse your more traditional RPG story elements into it, perhaps?


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 25, 2012)

It's Japan, all their manga is like that, not just Pokemon.  Having lived there for a couple years, I know firsthand what that's all about...much to my chagrin.


----------



## KuRensan (Dec 25, 2012)

I watched the one with Kyurem last night and it just didn't felt like a movie anymore D: just a dubble episode (still confused about the fact Kyurem is the strongest dragon pokemon :S) I think the first 3 pokemon films are the best, 4 was meh, 5 wasn't that special. I do like the 3D effects they use in the movies and not in the series :3


----------



## ars25 (Dec 26, 2012)

Blaze163 said:


> I find it odd that the movies have grown and moved on, becoming more adult in theme to give the original audience something more to their tastes, yet the games stay true to the same setup and the same child-friendly tone. If the movies can include something for everyone, shouldn't the games strive to do that too? I've been playing since Red and frankly I'm tired of the constant stream of badges being the central focus, not to mention some other massively annoying things. Example:
> 
> - How many people in the Pokemon games are essentially pointless, only saying things like 'aren't pokemon wonderful?', like some sinister brainwashing attempt. We get it, pokemon are great. You don't need to have your head stuck so far up your own arse you can taste lung, Nintendo.
> 
> ...


I agree with you Blaze 5 generations of the same thing with only minor additions and a changes. Nintendo really needs to step up their game. i used to be an real Pokemon nerd but right after the release of black and white that is when the series died for me because i saw it was basically the same aspects as the other generations all the did was just  add a new coating of paint in my eyes. (Ash did win a championship once it was the orange islands if memory serve me correctly)


----------



## Gahars (Dec 27, 2012)

ars25 said:


> I agree with you Blaze 5 generations of the same thing with only minor additions and a changes. Nintendo really needs to step up their game. i used to be an real Pokemon nerd but right after the release of black and white that is when the series died for me because i saw it was basically the same aspects as the other generations all the did was just  add a new coating of paint in my eyes. (Ash did win a championship once it was the orange islands if memory serve me correctly)



It took you until Black & White to see this?


----------



## ars25 (Dec 27, 2012)

Gahars said:


> It took you until Black & White to see this?


yes basically the only reason why i continued playing until then was because of heartgold and soulsilver


----------



## astrangeone (Jan 1, 2013)

ars25 said:


> I agree with you Blaze 5 generations of the same thing with only minor additions and a changes. Nintendo really needs to step up their game. i used to be an real Pokemon nerd but right after the release of black and white that is when the series died for me because i saw it was basically the same aspects as the other generations all the did was just add a new coating of paint in my eyes. (Ash did win a championship once it was the orange islands if memory serve me correctly)


 
I too was a Poke nerd up until the Black and White series.  (I still think the best version of Pokemon is Gold or Silver (I owned both) - it integrated the real world and Pokemon pretty well and had two areas to explore - Kanto and Johto.)

I really want to play Black 2 and White 2, but just to see how the region is getting on.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Jan 1, 2013)

i'm pretty sure max was actually in love with both jirachi and ralts at some point. if thats not messed up...


----------



## Cuelhu (Jan 1, 2013)

The first movie actually had its plot highly modified in the west. They cut the first minutes showing the scientist story and reasons to make clones and how Mewtwo had feelings and cried for Ai's death. They released this part on DVD, though I don't know details on the dub.

And Mewtwo never tried to conquer or destroy the world, he just wanted to show how clones were strong and could surpass the originals, that's why he invited capable trainers and used that storm to test them as only the fittest would pass it through. Obviously his methods weren't the best as he was somewhat unscrupulous, but he was not a full of evil villain like the English dub made him.


----------



## Hielkenator (Jan 1, 2013)

play castlevania judgement, for sexual reverence...


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2013)

Blaze163 said:


> Hell, a lot of the towns are basically just a gym, the pokemon centre and maybe two houses.


I'm actually fine with them keeping it like this. Pokemon isn't suppose to be filled with big huge cities with a lot going on. It's suppose to be simple and easy to follow. One of the major turn offs I had with Black and White was that they introduced so many big cities and modern things. It's not meant to be realistic but that seems to be the way Nintendo is going.


----------



## gokujr1000 (Jan 2, 2013)

Am I supposed to take this thread seriously or...?


----------

