# Any vegans/vegetarians here besides me?



## granville (Jun 10, 2008)

As you can tell from my topic title (and obviously, my sig), I'm a vegan. What that means is I am a very strict vegetarian. I eat no meat, dairy, or any animal produce. I've been a vegan since September of 2005 and have somehow never wanted to go back. My mother followed my lead and is also a vegan now. 

Unlike some of the zealots on sites like PETA, though, I have absolutely no problem with other people's choice to eat meat. It's just the right thing for MY life, not necessarily other people's lives. I have several reasons for choosing this way of life:

1: Meat has required nutrients in it, but I choose to get these nutrients from plant sources. Meat has a history of being a disease carrier and has many other unhealthy qualities that you are forced to ingest as well as the nutrition. I simply choose to bypass this part and get it from cleaner plant sources. Some like Vitamin B12 and Omega-6 fatty acids are difficult to find in plant matter, but I manage well enough.

2: I'm an animal fanatic. Being thus, I can't eat something I love to appreciate alive. Like I said, it doesn't bother me that other people eat meat, but I don't have to take part in it.

3: I once visited a slaughterhouse. Anyone who has done this can probably understand my POV here. There are few places on earth as filthy, horrifying, and just overall unhealthy than a slaughterhouse. This brought the question "Where does my food come from?" into a whole new light for me. If I lost any other ideal I have on being a vegan, I would stay vegan solely based on this.

4: In all the weight loss madness and obesity crises, it's nice to have a comfortable lifestyle that automatically assures health and well-being. Before I was a vegan, I was above 300 pounds and had high blood pressure. Somehow I managed to get down to 235 pounds and lose my high blood pressure completely. I wasn't even trying to do these things and didn't become a vegan to accomplish these things. They just happened automatically after less than a year. I don't even eat religiously healthy foods. I only limit myself to plants and I eat whatever I want from there. I feel, look, and live better than I did.

5: I was ready to stop eating meat. I've never really been a health nut, but I never went on food binges either. When you're ready to become a vegan, that makes it 50% easier. When you find out that you don't have any dependency on animal produce AFTER you've tried it out, that takes the other 50% of the difficulty out.

Like I said, this is not for everyone. I've been a vegan for nearly 3 years and never had any motivation to return to the way I was. Most people wouldn't be like this. Many give up. But it helps when your body is ready and you find (to your surprise) that you don't have any cravings for meat.

I respect anyone who DOES eat animal produce as long as they respect MY choice. The only thing that has yet to piss me off in being a vegan is peoples' reaction to telling them. They tend think you're some kind of a cultist or weirdo. Does disliking broccoli make you strange? No. Does disliking milk make you weird? No. So why should disliking meat?

Is anyone here a vegan/vegetarian as well?


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## Agjsdfd (Jun 10, 2008)

Nope, I am Omnivore.
Eat meat and vege.


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## Jax (Jun 10, 2008)

Sorry, can't live without my daily dosage of cruelty...


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## cris92x (Jun 10, 2008)

Im sorry i have to follow in the words of my history teacher:
"If it doesn't have meat its not a meal"
You know ever wonder what the sharp teeth in front of our mouths do? 
We were meant to eat meat, of course not so we grow fat or unhealthy, but for survival. 
It keeps the food chain from going into disorder, of course we screwed it up a lot but its still needed


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## bahamuta (Jun 10, 2008)

I understand you're a vegetarian, but I don't understand why you're vegan. What's wrong in drinking milk and eating cheese or even eating ice-cream (it's made of milk). Dammit, you can't even eat pancakes. That sucks.


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## Calafas (Jun 10, 2008)

I think Bonemonkey's a vegetarian...


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## Tanas (Jun 10, 2008)

rjbr2000 said:
			
		

> Yes.
> 
> It's not as good as the Attitude era.
> 
> ...



Probably boils down to animal cruelty or the exploitation of animals for human needs.


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## ScuberSteve (Jun 10, 2008)

It may sound disgusting, but I laughed a lot during a trip to a slaughterhouse...

Omnivore:  EAT EVERYTHING.


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## moozxy (Jun 10, 2008)

Being vegan or a vegetarian is unnatural, we are meant to eat meat. I do feel sorry for the way some animals are treated at the slaughterhouse though. I watched a video of some cows being killed, it was like something out of a horror movie.


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## hankchill (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm no vegan or vegetarian, but I have to say I don't like meat on my pizza, only veggies.

Toss me some pork chops though and I'm good to go


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## VmprHntrD (Jun 10, 2008)

Hate to come off mean, but I can't respect you at all as a vegan, but if you were a vegeterian of some degree it would be fine.  As you well pointed out there in your first post, you need Vitamin B12 and Omegas...no pill or grown product can supply you the amount you need, and factory made doesn't work well and is documented.  Mind you this can cause you some serious side effects as time goes on, and I'm not sure if this bit is not so gray area still but will shorten your life.  Those 2 things you lack in hurt you in the ability to heal, process nutrients, can screw up your hair over time(fall apart/out/very thin) and in general will just harm your system because you're in essence doing pick and choose starvation of things the body in natural means requires.

I can't obviously make you change your mind, but I would implore you if you're going to go vegan and stick to it, perhaps backoff just slightly and deal with fairly obtained animal produce (say a diehard veggie as at least that has some common sense to it.)  This will get you all you need except if I recall right the Omegas...that you need to eat fish for.  If you could bother with fish ever again just an occasional $1 can of basic bumblebee(or whatever one) tuna that's 100% not dolphin kibble would fix that up.  Personally I very well minimize red meat and pig as it's not some huge treasure for me, but I do value chicken and fish.


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## scdsone (Jun 10, 2008)

ive been a veggie for 19 years i dont eat meat, poultry or fish 
i have milk & cheese but i dont eat eggs but i do eat things made with egg (pasta, cakes, etc etc)

i dont jelly (Gelatin) cause thats fcuking disgusting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin


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## WildWon (Jun 10, 2008)

Meat is murder.

Tasty, tasty murder.

I enjoy me some meat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



However the lifestyle of the vegan is an impressive one. I wouldn't be able to read all the ingredients to find out if i could/couldn't eat something due to it having meat.

Hats off to those that do though.

SLIGHT TOPIC SHIFT:
I had a friend who was a punk. He was a vegetarian punk. He was a vegetarian punk for 12 years (from about 12-24 years old) because he hated the governments control of the meat industry.

Right or wrong, he stood by his guns and is *the epitome* of a punk mother-fucker.


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## BoneMonkey (Jun 10, 2008)

Calafas said:
			
		

> I think Bonemonkey's a vegetarian...



THATS FIGHTING WORDS!


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## Whizz (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm a pescetarian...


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## Endogene (Jun 10, 2008)

slaughterhouses ain't that bad, it takes some getting used to thats all


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## Beware (Jun 10, 2008)

I've been a vegetarian for 6+ years.  Two years as a pescetarian and 4 as a strict vegetarian.  No gelatin, no fish, no Master Foods products.  As far as being a vegan goes, I simply cannot understand it.  A cow MUST be milked.  A lactating cow that isn't milk is in pain.  Chickens ALWAYS lay eggs.  A chicken laying an unfertilized is the chicken equivalent of a woman's menstrual cycle.  The eggs we eat are not fertilized, therefore no baby chicken is being killed.  If the treatment of the animals is an issue, there are farms that only sell eggs from free-range chickens and milk from free-range cows and etc.

As for my vegetarianism, I say, if you can't watch your food get hunted, slaughtered and served to you on a silver platter, you shouldn't eat it at all.  And also, "Who the fuck are you to decide what lives and what dies just so you can get fat?"  There's a difference between eating meat to survive and just eating it for the Hell of it.


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## granville (Jun 10, 2008)

The thing with being a vegan/vegetarian is that you need to enjoy it to truly embrace the lifestyle. This is the case with me. Some people do it for health or to torment themselves. I do it because I love being one (just as much as some people love meat). It's not a torture, but a reward for me.

I really wasn't making fun of anyone here or anything, but I certainly don't agree with the statement that humans are required to eat meat or that it's unnatural to be a vegan. Only the nutrients in meat are required, all of which can be found in plant sources (where'd you think the animals got them?). Our evolution (if you believe in it) as humans reveals that we were once only herbivorous. Humans adapted themselves to accept meat and such. True carnivores have pointed teeth throughout, but humans can go whichever way we choose.

Omega-6 fatty acids can be found in flax seed. Flax works as an amazing egg substitute for baking when it's ground up into a powder and mixed with water. It is ideal as a bonding agent for breads and other such bakery-style foods.

Vitamin B12 is a bit harder to get, but there are many ways to get it vegan nonetheless. Here's a good link to many vegan sources of B12:

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Protein of course is found in MANY vegetables that need not be listed.

The reason why i'm a vegan and not just a vegetarian is a health reason, not an animal reason. Eggs are a tremendous source of high cholesterol. Milk causes a bunch of bad effects that the dairy industry fails to mention in all their "Got Milk" ads. The calcium is great as are some of the other things in it, but there are some extremely bad things in it that outweigh the benefits. Here's some info on that:

http://www.rense.com/general67/milk.htm

I choose an all-plant lifestyle because I can get all my nutrition in plant matter WITHOUT the harmful effects that are found in animal produce. How can you be against that? Like I said, I don't have a problem with YOUR lifestyles, so why can't you accept mine? I'm not hurting you nor indeed myself. I just wanted to know if there were any other vegans here.


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## Jack-Of-Trades (Jun 10, 2008)

Can't say I am since i like meat...
But i do like a lot of the vegetarian items such as
Vegi Burgers
Soy Milk (godly need to try it)
and some others


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## granville (Jun 10, 2008)

You'd definitely be surprised how many veggie products come off equal or better than the things they're trying to substitute. Vegan Boca Burgers taste EXACTLY the same as hamburgers (yes EXACTLY). Rice Dream chocolate rice milk is incredible chocolate milk. Tokurky (I know it's stupid) Thanksgiving feasts are great. There's a frozen dinner brand called Amy's that makes some killer vegan meals (enchiladas rock).

There's really not much of a reason to feel you're being tormented by going vegan anymore. There are some incredible vegan foods out there. I guess it doesn't hurt that I'm a pretty good cook and am good with meals. I'm more qualified to be the parent of my house than my own mother.


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## lagman (Jun 10, 2008)

lol, intolerance to vegans, I wasn't expecting that, calling it unnatural, what is this the 17th century? Vegetarianism might be unnatural, ok, the internet is unnatural too, vaccines are too, so what? We are the able to make choices, and mistakes of course.

I wouldn't be able to live without meat, but if you decided that that's the way you wanna roll and you respect others people decisions -unlike a few of the omnivorous posters- well, good for you.


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## CorruptJon (Jun 10, 2008)

I actually enjoy watching the animal die before I eat it. The fresher the meat, the better.


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## The Worst (Jun 10, 2008)

scdsone said:
			
		

> i dont jelly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin



I knew a girl who didn't use jelly, she used Vaseline 



anyway I'm almost a vegetarian except without all the holdups about eating meat and whatnot


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## shaunj66 (Jun 10, 2008)

Let's not turn this into a flame war. Please respect others decisions in life!

That said, I don't think I could EVER be a vegetarian... I don't think even a trip to an abattoir would subside me. I love me some good meat (GROW UP!). I also can't shake the feeling that it's just unnatural. Wouldn't it be unhealthy to live without the benefits? Though I suppose this day and age, there are plenty of artificial alternatives that are probably just as good... Just not as satisfying or tasty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







			
				The Worst said:
			
		

> scdsone said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Her Birthday parties must have been terrible..

(Like this "joke")


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## granville (Jun 10, 2008)

lagman said:
			
		

> lol, intolerance to vegans, I wasn't expecting that, calling it unnatural, what is this the 17th century? Vegetarianism might be unnatural, ok, the internet is unnatural too, vaccines are too, so what? We are the able to make choices, and mistakes of course.
> 
> I wouldn't be able to live without meat, but if you decided that that's the way you wanna roll and you respect others people decisions -unlike a few of the omnivorous posters- well, good for you.



Thanks for this post. I'm glad to talk to someone like you. Mutual respect on both side is the way to handle things like this.


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## coolbho3000 (Jun 10, 2008)

granville said:
			
		

> http://www.rense.com/general67/milk.htm


That says 90% of Asians are lactose intolerant. Which is simply not true...


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## gizmo_gal (Jun 10, 2008)

I have toyed with the idea of being vegetarian--I may one day go for it, but for now, the only dietary restrictions I follow are those laid down by my religious beliefs. But there are times when I try not to think about what my food was before it made it to the pan, but I'm not all that disgusted with animal and animal by products being in my food. >_>...


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## The Worst (Jun 10, 2008)

shaunj66 said:
			
		

> The Worst said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it's from an old song that was popular when i was really young




all that said... yeah it was a pretty lame joke, i just wanted to clear up that it wasn't supposed to be sexual


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## VmprHntrD (Jun 11, 2008)

Rense.com there, check that main site a bit as I really don't think that's a top quality site for stated fact what so ever.  Best try some sort of medical site with citing and sources tied up to back that argument up because really ya you can get small amounts of what meat have in non-meat sources but not enough to keep completely healthy in respect to some fatty acid and vitamin deficiencies.  I personally have nothing against a vegetarian and they keep clear of the stuff that can stare back at you, but it's the extremists beyond that point I got no respect for (but at least I'm nice to and listen/debate with ...up until I hit a militant type then it's a verbal ground war.)


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## Urza (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm a  raw foodist. I eat only uncooked foods (fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts) 

Don't give a shit about animals though. Doing it for the health, and frankly, I've felt pretty incredible since I switched. Energy level is WAY up, and never get that weighed down feeling from your standard cooked foods. Its also fairly cheap to do so where I live (7-10USD a day).


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## da_head (Jun 11, 2008)

i like bacon


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## Javacat (Jun 11, 2008)

Urza, is that out of lazyness, tightness, inability to cook or is it something you've really aimed for? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, out of interest, do you have sushi or raw steak?


Also, I love mah meat, though I'm more of a chicken/fish person and I've never really had a steak. I don't think I'd be able to function as a vegetarian/vegan due to a lot of salady vegetables making me gag. I force myself to eat stuff like that for the health aspect, although I really don't like a lot of it.


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## bobrules (Jun 11, 2008)

I gave veggie burger a try and it taste like mushroom with tree branch in it, so I then I ate a beef burger. I don't think eating animal is cruel because it's natural thing to do.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2008)

"I respect anyone who DOES eat animal produce as long as they respect MY choice. The only thing that has yet to piss me off in being a vegan is peoples' reaction to telling them. They tend think you're some kind of a cultist or weirdo. Does disliking broccoli make you strange? No. Does disliking milk make you weird? No. So why should disliking meat?"

I think this comes under the I do not personally care for your choice but as long as it does not affect me (i.e. a group of people try to pass a law that affects my way of things) I could care less. The phrasing of that comes dangerously close the the right not to be offended stuff that I completely disagree with.

The food: assuming it is pure preference (allergies/intolerances) and assuming 
As for vegan/vegetarian food I agree some of it is quite nice but for long term stuff I like meat.

Also just for fun: the replicator debate. Should the star trek style replicator (I feed in some elements and a bit of energy and out pops a steak) be made where would you stand (assuming elements/energy appear from the air/ground/are sustainable)?

RE: cows, some would argue that it is just modern cows that need milking and only through selective breeding (I will resist the urge to spin this into a GM debate) has such a position come to pass.

"Meat has a history of being a disease carrier"
I have a long list of plants carrying toxins.

".....automatically assures health and well-being"
A tough one, I have met many people with major problems due to bad choices in diet here 9 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/1...journalCode=ijn ) . I guess the provisio if it is done properly but then that applies to everything.

Slaughterhouses.
I have been to nice ones and some fairly grotty ones, a bolt gun to the head followed by quick chilling and so on does seem a lot nicer than some of the "ritualistic" (as in kosher/halal ritualistic) stuff that I have seen.

"vaccines are too, so what"
*points to inoculation


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## Opium (Jun 11, 2008)

coolbho3000 said:
			
		

> granville said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah. The article would actually be very interesting and persuasive if it listed it's sources and wasn't so one sided. As it stands, it reads more like some hippy "meat is murder" rant.


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## Bamboo (Jun 11, 2008)

im a vegitarian.

Ive been one my whole life.
I have come to know that animals don't want to die and they are just like us ,
they want to live and survive and love. 
I do not believe eating meat is good just because it seems natural. 
I am aware that in the wild animals kill each other and some don't (even some carnivorous animals are known to not want to kill)  just like us. 
I know that eating meat is in our genes because we have been eating meat for thousands of years so I do know that it is instinctive for us to want to eat meat.
But I do not believe in the statement "they are killed humanely" as I feel that any form of killing is inhumane. 
I doubt many people would eat meat if they had to take the life of a kicking and squealing animal with their own hands.


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## porchemasi (Jun 11, 2008)

KFC is horrible for treating animals... like veryyyyy wrong to treat any animal like that. Doesnt mean ill stop eating KFC ....or give up eating meat.


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## granville (Jun 11, 2008)

Well I can assure anyone here that I am no radical when it comes to being a vegan. Unlike some of them I'd NEVER try to force my way onto others simply because I really DON'T think being a vegan is for everyone. I don't even hate meat much, but I don't like the things in it, the way it makes me sick sometimes, and it's just a personal food taste. I simply choose not to eat it because I enjoy other food much more. Meat in itself has good benefits, but the unhealthy aspects outweigh the good for me personally.

That site I posted about milk was the wrong one I first saw. I can't find the one I originally went to, but I agree it's not a valid source. I will tell you that I originally tried this out as a dietary experiment and attempted to drink some milk after about one month of being a vegan. The stuff was as potent for me as a large glass of liquor. Once you clense your body of certain impurities and go without something that rich for a while, your body gets used to not having it and tries to reject it. Simply put, it made me very sick.

I don't cringe if I see meat in any form or think of people in a mean way if they crunch on some KFC tenders. I've never been much of a prejudiced person. The world has enough of that kind of mentality.

Simply put yet again, I enjoy this for me and me alone. I've never felt any cravings for animal produce and never felt like I was torturing myself. I get my nutrition through diligence and health consciousness. I've never, nor will I ever, feel any anger or even a slight form of prejudice over carnivores or omnivores and I hope you choose to have the same respect for me.

I have a distaste for PETA in pretty much everything except as a source to find out what to eat and such. They are MUCH too militant, which is something I don't like at all. It may be true that I think similarly to their rudimentary ideas, but they've NO right to try to force their lifestyles on others. It's sickening.


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## kevenka (Jun 11, 2008)

I tried being a Vegetarian. No meat(not a vegan). I noticed I was gettin shorter though, and my muscles weren't developing b/c I excercised a lot. So I think it is neccesary for animal protein simply to grow. I respect your choice but I think in the long run, it is working against your bodies nature and adapting a new sense of living(little ambiguous if you know what I mean).


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## granville (Jun 11, 2008)

Did you eat much protein as a vegetarian? I eat high protein food all the time and am big and tall (6'4"). It's not necessarily the animal protein, animal produce just happens to be VERY high in it.

I'm a bit lax in the working out part lately.


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## Venko (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm a vegetarian. I have been one my entire life (almost 19 years). I have fully developed and significantly healthier than all of my friends (the majority of which are not vegetarians). Whilst I was born into a vegetarian family I maintain my vegetarianism for a number of reasons.[*]Ethical Reasons (my personal ethics tell me that killing anyone is wrong, this means that killing someone - often inhumanely - and then eating their corpse is EVER SO wrong).[*]Disgust (how anyone could bring themselves to eat a corpse is beside me. Haven't any of you ever smelt burning human flesh? It smells exactly like the corpses that you guys are so happy to eat. Essentially you're eating yourselves.)As for what granville said concerning vegans relative to vegetarianism he is wrong. A vegan isn't a strict vegetarian they're a completely different thing. A vegetarian refers to someone who eats no meat, fish or other living creatures. A vegan also doesn't eat milk or eggs. Some of you may be wondering about eggs and fertilisation but if an egg is fertilised then the contents are no longer what you see in regular eggs and you would immediately realise it wasn't fit for consumption. This has never happened to me and goes to show that eggs bought in stores never contained life.

Those of you who have tried (and miserably failed) to argue that your diet is natural are ever so mistaken. What's natural is to eat berries off of bushes and fruit off of trees. Eventually primitive man started hunting prey too but that's not part of our original "design". Furthermore the preparation and cooking exercised by all modern humans is completely unnatural which makes a far larger portion of the meat eating (read corpse eating) population further from "what is natural".

I'm sure a large percentage of the members here believe that murdering a human life is wrong. Those of you should also regard the lives of other animals just as highly. The fact that you (apparently) don't is characterised by laziness or hypocrisy. If you did what you do to other animals to humans you would be imprisoned for life and, in some places, murdered yourself. Stop making up poor excuses and accept that what you're doing goes against your own principles. Either stop murdering or stop lying to yourself that you're a real human being.


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## granville (Jun 11, 2008)

Hey chill out. That's the kind of attitude that makes people angry. A vegan IS a strict vegetarian as we refuse to eat ANY animal produce. That's what I do. I only eat plant matter.

There's no need to feel you're better than others or are part of a moral ascension.


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## Eden (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm also a vegetarian, but solely for environmental reasons, such as deforestation for pasture land.  

Also, as a graduate student of anthropology I can assure the people spouting that vegetarianism is unnatural is pure fallacy.  Many of our ancestral species' diets relied heavily upon vegetable and fruit sources, meat being a either a luxury or infrequent source of food.  If it was easier to get their nutritional supplement from the local plant fauna, they did so, if it was easier to kill or eat a wounded animal, they did so.  There is no natural or unnatural about it.  The reason we are omnivores is because our bodies are equipped to break down both food sources, where as for an animal that is strictly carnivorous is not as readily equipped. 

Think the vegetarian lion from Futurama.


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## xpestilencex (Jun 11, 2008)

It's good to see other vegetarians here. =]


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## Urza (Jun 11, 2008)

Venko said:
			
		

> I'm a vegetarian. I have been one my entire life (almost 19 years). I have fully developed and significantly healthier than all of my friends (the majority of which are not vegetarians). Whilst I was born into a vegetarian family I maintain my vegetarianism for a number of reasons.[*]Ethical Reasons (my personal ethics tell me that killing anyone is wrong, this means that killing someone - often inhumanely - and then eating their corpse is EVER SO wrong).[*]Disgust (how anyone could bring themselves to eat a corpse is beside me. Haven't any of you ever smelt burning human flesh? It smells exactly like the corpses that you guys are so happy to eat. Essentially you're eating yourselves.)As for what granville said concerning vegans relative to vegetarianism he is wrong. A vegan isn't a strict vegetarian they're a completely different thing. A vegetarian refers to someone who eats no meat, fish or other living creatures. A vegan also doesn't eat milk or eggs. Some of you may be wondering about eggs and fertilisation but if an egg is fertilised then the contents are no longer what you see in regular eggs and you would immediately realise it wasn't fit for consumption. This has never happened to me and goes to show that eggs bought in stores never contained life.
> 
> Those of you who have tried (and miserably failed) to argue that your diet is natural are ever so mistaken. What's natural is to eat berries off of bushes and fruit off of trees. Eventually primitive man started hunting prey too but that's not part of our original "design". Furthermore the preparation and cooking exercised by all modern humans is completely unnatural which makes a far larger portion of the meat eating (read corpse eating) population further from "what is natural".
> 
> I'm sure a large percentage of the members here believe that murdering a human life is wrong. Those of you should also regard the lives of other animals just as highly. The fact that you (apparently) don't is characterised by laziness or hypocrisy. If you did what you do to other animals to humans you would be imprisoned for life and, in some places, murdered yourself. Stop making up poor excuses and accept that what you're doing goes against your own principles. Either stop murdering or stop lying to yourself that you're a real human being.


Definition of moralfag.

If I went back to being a meat-eater, it would be because everyone assumes that I'll be a total douche about my diet like this guy.


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## Eden (Jun 11, 2008)

Wow, I never even read Venko's reply.  Good Christ, man, you're a fence camper.  Our original design?  Primitive man?  

I'm assuming you're a religious zealot who believes in evolution when the argument suits it.  If you believe in evolution, life was spontaneous and our ability to consume meat is an adaptive trait. If you believe in creation, we were designed the way we were by God, which gives us the anatomical abilities to both find, kill, eat and process meat.  Either way your argument contains so many anecdotal fallacies that you're confused which way is up and which is down. 

My apologies to anyone, I have no problem with religion or creationism, I just don't like seeing pieces for each side of an argument used to support one man's misguided moral dilemma.


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## jalaneme (Jun 11, 2008)

i used to be a vegetarian when i was 13 for a few years because my foster parents were, but now i eat meat, i only eat low carb stuff anyway.


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## xJonny (Jun 11, 2008)

Put it this way - I would be if it really made a difference.


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## sbot10 (Jun 11, 2008)

I think it's fine to be proud of being a vegan and brag about it a little. You've got principles and you're prepared to make sacrifices in order to adhere to them.

You can deny the health benefits, either. I've been vegan for about four years now and I've never been fitter or stronger. And once the girls find out you're vegan... well, you get the idea


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## xJonny (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm alright with vegetarians but i get annoyed at vegans but that's my personal viewpoint.



			
				sbot10 said:
			
		

> And once the girls find out you're vegan...


They don't think you're a strong muscular hunkish man who eats 5 steaks just for breakfast.


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## sbot10 (Jun 11, 2008)

'Cause nothing's quite as attractive as colon cancer... If you ate 5 steaks in a row you wouldn't poop for a week!


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## Westside (Jun 11, 2008)

xJonny said:
			
		

> I'm alright with vegetarians but i get annoyed at vegans but that's my personal viewpoint.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Humans are omnivores no matter what, and that can not be changed, it is only natural that your body will need it.  There is 20 amino acid in meat that can be consumed by human to maintain their body in a much more efficient manner.  Eating meat has nothing to do with masculinity, and if it does, something is wrong here.  I guess it could be the fact that North American meats are unnatural and injected with hormones?  Personally, my family have all lived a wonderful life back home eating meat their entire lives.


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## granville (Jun 11, 2008)

To anyone who posts hate (carnivore OR herbivore):

Does this have to turn into a hate war? I'm a vegan, you're not. So what? It doesn't matter what you eat. I just posted to give a little bit of a personal output and see if anyone else is a vegan/vegetarian as well.


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## sbot10 (Jun 11, 2008)

Sorry to go on, but it's also worth mentioning the greenhouse emissions attached to the meat industry. Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock%27s_Long_Shadow
If I'm vegan I can drive a Hummer and have less impact on the environment than a meat eater riding a bike. (though bikes are pretty cool...)


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## papyrus (Jun 11, 2008)

Just eat a balanced diet. I guess eating meat should be minimized.


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## blahman (Jun 11, 2008)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> "I respect anyone who DOES eat animal produce as long as they respect MY choice. The only thing that has yet to piss me off in being a vegan is peoples' reaction to telling them. They tend think you're some kind of a cultist or weirdo. Does disliking broccoli make you strange? No. Does disliking milk make you weird? No. So why should disliking meat?"
> 
> I think this comes under the I do not personally care for your choice but as long as it does not affect me (i.e. a group of people try to pass a law that affects my way of things) I could care less. The phrasing of that comes dangerously close the the right not to be offended stuff that I completely disagree with.



Well, I do agree that people have the right to not to be offended, but then people should not all act like pricks all the time which is more common courtesy than law or anything. Then from there we have sliding scale of severity to harassment, abuse and discrimination and we have the right to not be treated that way. The big difference between the being offended side and the discrimination side is that the discrimination side the person is being targetted.

So, if someone only eat vegies and finds people who eat meat cruel, disgusting and offensive then tough luck thats his problem.

But if other people started harassing and looking down on him just simply because he is vegetarian and nothing else then he has the right to not be treated like that.

Similarly it is just as bad if he decided to harass people for eating meat.


Anyway I like both my meats and vegies. I'm cool with people who are vegetarians. Nice people are nice people regardless of what they eat. But if an looney comes up to me and start calling me a murderer and how im morally inferior then I'll make him swallow his own tongue.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2008)

Eden said:
			
		

> I'm also a vegetarian, but solely for environmental reasons, such as deforestation for pasture land.
> 
> *points to cash crops and the fact that if you so desired you can buy all manner of differently rated organic produce if such things concern you.
> 
> ...



I agree that harassment and the like are not to be done however I believe we differ in the definitions we use for the words:

discrimination is generally defined as the active use of prejudice, having a target or not is largely irrelevant (although finding a target and discriminating is generally worse).

"looking down on him" personally I think less of religious people (I use religious to mean those who blindly accept a "religion rather than trying to figure something out, it gets hard when unitarians are thrown in but hopefully the definition is good enough) but other than generally not inviting them to be my personal friends I do not take any other action against them. That perhaps is not the point you were going for and if so I apologise. My point is the difference between prejudice (in your head) and discrimination (acting upon a prejudicial line of thought (generally taken to be an irrelevant prejudice or one without a basis in fact).

Surely the corollary of the internet "rule" that everything is a fetish of someone is everything offends somebody somewhere (or perhaps that the chances are good that what you just said/did or believe offends someone). Trying to navigate that minefield is going to mean I end up in a PC nightmare world.
Sure incitement laws can exist if they are not abused or badly enforced ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/23/sc...no_prosecution/ ) and was someone to say follow someone attempting to make a reasonable effort to avoid such things then yes but as for unilateral right not to be offended then problems appear.


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## kevenka (Jun 11, 2008)

Quick question for all you guys who know health...Why is Americans today focusing on food high protein, low carbs when the food guide pyramid clearly shows that carbs should be the greatest amount consume?


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## Eternal Myst (Jun 11, 2008)

kevenka said:
			
		

> Quick question for all you guys who know health...Why is Americans today focusing on food high protein, low carbs when the food guide pyramid clearly shows that carbs should be the greatest amount consume?


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## Commander (Jun 11, 2008)

sbot10 said:
			
		

> I think it's fine to be proud of being a vegan and brag about it a little. You've got principles and you're prepared to make sacrifices in order to adhere to them.
> 
> You can deny the health benefits, either. I've been vegan for about four years now and I've never been fitter or stronger. And once the girls find out you're vegan... well, you get the idea



Wow principles because you eat vegetables, congratulations, I don't see where the sacrifice comes into play do you offer up a vegetable and cut of its leaves or something? Or maybe humans are omnivores and therefore they can eat either meat or vegetables or both so you're not making any real sacrifice. I hope you enjoy the protein supplements, I think I might go eat some chicken. 

At the end of the day humans are the superior species, the world is a dog eat dog place the stronger species always wins, if not the gene pool dies. Why are humans, human and why are frogs, frogs because of the need to survive (some may say random mutations but general they are the result of rapid environment change so in the end its still the need to survive.)

~ Commander


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## XeonZ (Jun 12, 2008)

kevenka said:
			
		

> Quick question for all you guys who know health...Why is Americans today focusing on food high protein, low carbs when the food guide pyramid clearly shows that carbs should be the greatest amount consume?



I would guess because a lot of people aren't aware of good and bad carbs.  I don't think a focus on foods in high protein is that bad really, though too much red meat is bad, but yeah protein shouldn't substitute other nutrients for the body.


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## kevenka (Jun 12, 2008)

What is good carbs and bad ones? I really don't know... -.-


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## XeonZ (Jun 12, 2008)

Good carbs come from foods that haven't been altered by people are still in their natural states, like fruits, whole grain breads, and vegetables.  You can guess that bad carbs are from foods and drinks that have been altered such as junk food and soda which has had most of it's nutrition value removed and too much of these carbs will make you gain weight.

Basic outlook of it.


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## CockroachMan (Jun 12, 2008)

Plants are also alive.. vegetarians are cowards! If you want to eat a rabbit, you have to run after it! Now, if you want to eat a carrot, the poor carrot can't do nothing, it just stays there desperate waiting for it's death!


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## Topfragger (Jun 12, 2008)

it's good that you are a sensible Vegetarian that respects others as well.

what i hate is the retarded ones that try to modify scientific fact to support their personal view in a biased way.


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## sbot10 (Jun 12, 2008)

"Retarded" is a bit harsh, man. Give us an example of what you mean.


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## Veho (Jun 12, 2008)

sbot10 said:
			
		

> Give us an example of what you mean.


Here's an example.


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## Topfragger (Jun 12, 2008)

Well let's see....

Claiming that Humans are evolutionary unsuited to eating meat and that it is entirely unhealthy for us, and that only human culture has evolved to eat meat

and omit and don't address why monkeys and apes our closest evolutionary relatives eat meat in the wild and have the speed skill and reflex to do it.

theres a gay assed video on Youtube thats flash based and full of fecal matter.


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## Topfragger (Jun 12, 2008)

Btw how can milk suck? i drink loads of milk and i am extremely healthy, it's given me strong dense bone which is half the reason i weigh around 242 pounds 110kgs

i've never had broken bones before and i doubt i ever will, their strong and solid.


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## SonicRax (Jun 12, 2008)

Well, I'm personally not a vegetarian or vegan, but I do respect other peoples decisions based on what they wanna eat and stuff. Nice to see that you respect what others choices are :3 One of my friends gets really p***ed off if anyone eats meat around her. x_x But the way I see it, just let people do what they wanna do, period.


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## sbot10 (Jun 12, 2008)

Hi again,
Don't want to sound arguementative, but here is one interesting, non-related fact: While some chimps (not monkeys) do eat meat, it's only those put under environental pressure by mankind (hunting, logging, e.t.c.). Those that live in the deeper jungles just chill out all day. Weird, huh?


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## OrcMonkey© (Jun 12, 2008)

my afro friend dante  is a vegetarian. His lunch is only these cheese meal stuff.


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## Topfragger (Jun 16, 2008)

eating cheese makes you halfway vegetarian, being a proper vegetarian means only eating matter that comes from plants.

cheese is made from milk and is cultivated with bacteria.


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## Veho (Jun 16, 2008)

Topfragger said:
			
		

> eating cheese makes you halfway vegetarian, being a proper vegetarian means only eating matter that comes from plants.


No, that's vegan. Vegetarians can eat dairy and eggs.


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