# LulzSec is done



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 26, 2011)

After 50 days of hacking sites and disrupting services, LulzSec has said they are done. The final release is as shown below. Included with the release (torrent available on their site) are AT&T internal data, "private investigator emails", random gaming forum accounts, Battlefield Heroes Beta accounts and more[/p]


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Friends around the globe,
> 
> We are Lulz Security, and this is our final release, as today marks something meaningful to us. 50 days ago, we set sail with our humble ship on an uneasy and brutal ocean: the Internet. The hate machine, the love machine, the machine powered by many machines. We are all part of it, helping it grow, and helping it grow on us.
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Contents of release




50 Days of Lulz.txt	- 2.64 KiB
booty/AOL internal data.txt -63.6 KiB
booty/AT&T internal data.rar - 314.59 MiB
booty/Battlefield Heroes Beta (550k users).csv	-24.67 MiB
booty/FBI being silly.txt	- 3.82 KiB
booty/Hackforums.net (200k users).sql - 111.2 MiB
booty/Nato-bookshop.org (12k users).csv - 941.8 KiB
booty/Office networks of corporations.txt	- 3.87 KiB
booty/Private Investigator Emails.txt - 2.52 KiB
booty/Random gaming forums (50k users).txt - 6.08 MiB
booty/Silly routers.txt - 67.7 KiB
booty/navy.mil owned.png -240.51 KiB







Source

Talk about finishing with a bang.


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## The Catboy (Jun 26, 2011)

I really hope they stay gone. The world would be better off without them.


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## thegame07 (Jun 26, 2011)

booty/Random gaming forums (50k users).txt - 6.08 MiB


Anyone know what sites?


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## Foxi4 (Jun 26, 2011)

Well done, Team Poison.

Also, naughty SoulSnatcher! Bad! No more LulzSec topics!


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## Joe88 (Jun 26, 2011)

thegame07 said:
			
		

> booty/Random gaming forums (50k users).txt - 6.08 MiB
> 
> 
> Anyone know what sites?


it doesnt say, usernames, emails, and passwords
I wasnt in it luckily


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 26, 2011)

thegame07 said:
			
		

> booty/Random gaming forums (50k users).txt - 6.08 MiB
> 
> 
> Anyone know what sites?


Not GBAtemp. I checked. Just a bunch of random accounts.

@Foxi4:
This is the final thread. ;P


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## Ikki (Jun 26, 2011)

That was a nice goodbye.

I won't miss them though.


But lol, those paragraphs made me feel like saluting.


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## Hydreigon (Jun 26, 2011)

Since they're done, does this mean that this is the last LulzSec thread?


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## Red_Gh0st (Jun 26, 2011)

Hydreigon said:
			
		

> Since they're done, does this mean that this is the last LulzSec thread?
> 
> QUOTE(SoulSnatcher @ Jun 25 2011, 11:09 PM) @Foxi4:
> This is the final thread. ;P


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## s4mid4re (Jun 26, 2011)

Hydreigon said:
			
		

> Since they're done, does this mean that this is the last LulzSec thread?


unless they're lying. And also this says 'final release' which means that they're not going to make their hacked contents public; this doesn't necessarily tell me that they're not going to hack anymore (or did I miss something from the article?)

btw this should go on front page.


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## Terminator02 (Jun 26, 2011)

Hydreigon said:
			
		

> Since they're done, does this mean that this is the last LulzSec thread?


no, it means we're going to repost all the things they did in the past to keep the lulzsec news spam going

Edit: double ninja is embarassing


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## junkerde (Jun 26, 2011)

i thought team poison was gonna reaveal who lulzsec people were


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## Snailface (Jun 26, 2011)

LulzSec is done calling themselves LulzSec.
They'll be around.


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## Linkiboy (Jun 26, 2011)

All the passwords are hashed, even if you're in the release you don't have much to worry about.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 26, 2011)

Personally, I loved these guys. But then again, that's probably because I wasn't really affected by their hacking (thank god). But if there's one thing I learned from this (read again: *I*), it's that a lot of sites and everything, really isn't that secure as I thought. If anything, it's going to make me use stronger passwords and such. I mean, what else can I do really, right?

I did however love ALL of their paragraphs, reminded me of YWG, but funnier. 

I do have to wonder though, why 50 days? Why such a random number? But I guess all the questions we have, won't really be answered or anything. I mean, were they really bad, or good? Were they neutral? They had their haters, they also had their lovers. I was part of the latter. 

I will actually miss these guys. I always crack a little smile when I see that gentlemen-like avatar of theirs. He's so awesome. And their amazing theme song 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (still better than The Love Boat though).

Bon Voyage LulzSec. Bon Voyage. Hopefully you'll set sail for the fountain of youth, or whatever pirate cliche thing that's famous.


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## Dangy (Jun 26, 2011)

They will be missed.

By me at least.


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## Slyakin (Jun 26, 2011)

Aww, I'm gonna miss them and their hilarious shenanigans.


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## KingdomBlade (Jun 26, 2011)

Thank fucking god. It's about time.

At least the entire USN section won't be flooded with LulzSec threads every 3 days now.


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## Linkiboy (Jun 26, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> Well done, Team Poison.


And until Team Poison actually posts their identities and they are confirmed, they honestly seem nothing more than a bunch of script kiddies themselves. Remember the time they hacked an alleged member of Lulzsec? It was with a premade tool on a well-documented exploit on a wordpress plugin. Not anything new.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that neither LulzSec nor Team Poison are doing anything newsworthy and everyone should move along.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 26, 2011)

yeah their only stopping cos they know the heat and fbi is catching up with them


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 26, 2011)

It seems like the hate, the imposters and legal actions got to them at last.


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## redact (Jun 26, 2011)

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/93950/anonymo...web-censorship/

lulzsec were/are heroes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









			
				Dangy said:
			
		

> They will be missed.
> 
> By me at least.


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 26, 2011)

I like the lulzboat theme and ripped the mp3 from their site. If anyone is interested in this, here it is: Link


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## Fudge (Jun 26, 2011)

It was fun while it lasted


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## Nimbus (Jun 26, 2011)

Now we can have a nice civilized, uncluttered User Submitted News section again!



Otherwise


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## Technik (Jun 26, 2011)

Of course they got worried about being caught, they'll still be found eventually...


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## EarthBound (Jun 26, 2011)

Dangy said:
			
		

> They will be missed.
> 
> By me at least.


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## chris888222 (Jun 26, 2011)

They are LulzSec

They will make a comeback, I'm sure.


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## FireGrey (Jun 26, 2011)

Even though lulzsec is gone, it doesn't mean this whole thing is gone.
That would be like saying gaming would end when nintendo/sony/microsoft leave


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 26, 2011)

LOL 

These guys were boss. 

It is good that they are gone now though.


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## GreatZimkogway (Jun 26, 2011)

They'll come back.  I mean...they did their stuff very well.


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## TheDestroyer (Jun 26, 2011)

Finally, lulzsec news has been quite annoying. lol I hope they all get caught soon.


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## DrOctapu (Jun 26, 2011)

They're sure to be back. It's likely we'll hear "Former LulzSec member caught hacking X" in the news in a few months. They go to jail, do their time, become yuppies and talk about how wrong they were. How life works, it seems.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

While some of the stuff they did was questionable, and wrong. They have been truthful and dedicated to exposing the security flaws around the net. Maybe not for the right reasons, but most definitely not the wrong ones.

They will be missed by me.


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## DeadLocked (Jun 26, 2011)

Good fucking riddance.
This group are not heroes, they are assholes.
Stealing customer details is one thing, releasing them on twitter is another.
Why the hell wasn't their twitter account removed?


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## ThePowerOutage (Jun 26, 2011)

Publicity Stunt Much?


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## ecko (Jun 26, 2011)

Linkiboy said:
			
		

> All the passwords are hashed, even if you're in the release you don't have much to worry about.


i typed in 'password' in a md5 generator and then searcched through the docs with that;
quite some shocking results
well, tbh it wasn't that shocking


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## Depravo (Jun 26, 2011)

Somehow this seems too good to be true.


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## coolness (Jun 26, 2011)

now lets wait for team anonymous to get arrested


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## Miss Panda (Jun 26, 2011)

So they did their swansong on the anniversary of George Orwell's birth. Interesting or coincidence....


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 26, 2011)

DeadLocked said:
			
		

> Good fucking riddance.
> This group are not heroes, they are assholes.
> Stealing customer details is one thing, releasing them on twitter is another.
> Why the hell wasn't their twitter account removed?


QFT


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## BobTheJoeBob (Jun 26, 2011)

Finally, these fucks are gone. Thank god. 
Please DON'T make a comeback.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

Miss Panda said:
			
		

> So they did their swansong on the anniversary of George Orwell's birth. Interesting or coincidence....


Holy shit. I want to call that a coincidence, but honestly, out of 365 days in a year, they choose that one? I really do hope so.


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## pistone (Jun 26, 2011)

this is what i call to retire with style i have to admit it


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

DeadLocked said:
			
		

> Good fucking riddance.
> This group are not heroes, they are assholes.
> Stealing customer details is one thing, releasing them on twitter is another.
> Why the hell wasn't their twitter account removed?


This x100. Everyone that thinks that they're heroes are hypocrites. If it happened to you with your data being breached, posted online, and stolen, you wouldn't find it amusing or heroic at all. You'd turn against them instantly and badmouth them into the ground. The simple fact is that they've made it perfectly clear that they're dangerous loaded guns that could fire randomly at anyone who they decide to hack "for the lulz". Nothing awesome or heroic about assaulting random people who haven't done you any harm for laughs (or putting it up for other people to steal and profit off).

Take for instance- would my mother deserve to have her banking account hacked and stolen from? She doesn't get into any internet drama, doesn't own a corporate business, and is just a regular user of internet services. She's just a random person who isn't hurting anyone. But she could be targeted at any time and have everything stolen from her for the sake of entertainment or profit on the part of hackers. Does she deserve such a thing? Absolutely not, nor would millions of other random people who have their data on the internet. Lulzsec doesn't care about making the internet a better place. In the end, their actions only ended up hurting users that didn't deserve such treatment, and will inevitably result in more crack downs on the people you stole and exploited the data from to suit your agenda. It was a pointless act and only going to lead to worse treatment of people by these corporations you've hacked. It certainly spread chaos, but it doesn't make you cool (just evil).

Hacking and stealing from random people that have done you no wrong is nothing short of cyber terrorism. Call it heroics all you like. Maybe i should drop a nuclear bomb on a middle eastern country in an attempt to kill the terrorist leaders. But oops, i missed them and killed the innocent civilians instead. I must be one hell of a hero though and at least i got a lot of laughs out of seeing random people getting hurt. Perhaps i should go around stealing, raping, and murdering people because it's funny or entertaining. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I didn't enjoy this nonsensical bullshit posted here every day. I won't miss it (though it's probably actually not over, this will likely inspire other cyber terrorism and theft). Giving them attention is what they wanted.

BTW- sorry merc. I consider you a buddy of mine, but i'm going to have to disagree with you here.


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## KirovAir (Jun 26, 2011)

There goes another group of hero's. They will be missed. Luckily new groups will rise up soon.


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Jun 26, 2011)

Darkmystery said:
			
		

> There goes another group of hero's. They will be missed. Luckily new groups will rise up soon.



You know your gonna get flamed right?


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## Wombo Combo (Jun 26, 2011)

Fitting music at least to me:
[youtube]EqWRaAF6_WY[/youtube]


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## KirovAir (Jun 26, 2011)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:
			
		

> Darkmystery said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tell someone who cares.


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## Red_Gh0st (Jun 26, 2011)

Darkmystery said:
			
		

> There goes another group of hero's. They will be missed. Luckily new groups will rise up soon.



Amen brother


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Jun 26, 2011)

Darkmystery said:
			
		

> ThatDudeWithTheFood said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with you but still just making sure you realize this.


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## Kwartel (Jun 26, 2011)

Finally they're gone. The should just contacted the companies and tell them to get their shit straight. If they didn't THEN they should make the shit public..


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## BobTheJoeBob (Jun 26, 2011)

How the hell can anyone think these people are heroes? It doesn't make any sense....


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## jalaneme (Jun 26, 2011)

salamai said:
			
		

> LOL
> 
> These guys were boss.
> 
> ...



+1 i agree, not only is it very bizarre that people are praising them but they are not bothered by how much information they have stolen from the public, it's like how those pickpockets work, they distract you and they steal your purse and all personal belongings, would you praise someone who is stealing your personal info and treat therm like a celebrity? why are people giving them attention, the only attention they should be getting is from the FBI and the police.


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## AlanJohn (Jun 26, 2011)

At first I used to like them but after they published my personal info I started to hate them.


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## jalaneme (Jun 26, 2011)

granville said:
			
		

> DeadLocked said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i agree with everything you said there, well said.


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> How the hell can anyone think these people are heroes? It doesn't make any sense....


Because they're ignorant and fail to see LulzSec for what they really are.
They probably think that just because they're hackers they must be cool.


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## cwstjdenobs (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm glad to see the back of them but...



			
				granville said:
			
		

> Everyone that thinks that they're heroes are hypocrites. If it happened to you with your data being breached, posted online, and stolen, you wouldn't find it amusing or heroic at all.



to this I'll say they've given everyone a much needed kick up the arse. You can't trust anyone but yourself, from games companies to banks. Anyone who kept personal information online before this was an idiot. Anyone still trusting other people with it after this must be from the shallow end of the gene pool.


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## Deleted User (Jun 26, 2011)

Yes! *does victory dance*


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

> I'm glad to see the back of them but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Problem with your statement is that without people like LulzSec in the first place, we wouldn't need a kick in the ass. They're part of the problem here, they are the ones doing the hacking and spreading it around. For millions, this will change nothing. It has nothing to do with stupidity or being on the "shallow end of the gene pool", lots of banks and other services store the personal data online regardless of whether people actually use online services. That won't change unless the internet dies either.

Saying that people should know better doesn't make a point here. They shouldn't be blamed or held accountable for the actions of hacking terrorists. No one is safe from theft in this world, online or offline (you can make a case that storing money or data anywhere is foolish, online or offline when someone could potentially break in and steal it). Stealing millions of people's data and posting it online for people to take for themselves is illegal and evil. You cannot blame a normal person for the actions of a cyber terrorist group (or any other terrorist group for that matter). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The entire issue is that without hackers or groups like LulzSec, this stuff wouldn't have happened. THEY and others that share similar practices are the source problem here, don't try to sugar coat it and pass blame off to regular people by calling them stupid. This is a dangerous world and internet, but it's not really the fault of regular people that there exists such dangerous people. They're simply evil and want to terrorize people for fun or profit.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

They were like batman targeted against power hungry people. At least they put scare into companies.

The idea of Lulzsec are heroes. Sure I was not affected by it, but if I was I would be thankful knowing that I had known vulnerabilities and I should be a little more cautious.  Why don't people see that good things come out of bad things if you let it?


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> They were like batman targeted against power hungry people. At least they put scare into companies.
> 
> The idea of Lulzsec are heroes. Sure I was not affected by it, but if I was *I would be thankful* knowing that I had known vulnerabilities and I should be a little more cautious.  Why don't people see that good things come out of bad things if you let it?


Would you be thankful when they posted your info for everyone else to see?


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## naved.islam14 (Jun 26, 2011)

Just read this on CNET and lal'd(Opposite of lol'd/lul'd).


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

DeathStrudel said:
			
		

> Zetta_x said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lmao, my original response to this was posting all my details out. Email accounts, my full name, where I live, what university I go to... But then your response would be "It didn't get as much publicity because Lulzsec didn't do it" so I retracted what I was going to post.

My point is, you guys worry to much. If you had read anything I said above, good things come from bad things. If your stuff gets posted out there, then you may be a little more cautious who you give your information too. Who knows, law may mandate companies to enforce certain security standards to personal information because of this. So quit yapping.


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> They were like batman targeted against power hungry people. At least they put scare into companies.
> 
> The idea of Lulzsec are heroes. Sure I was not affected by it, but if I was I would be thankful knowing that I had known vulnerabilities and I should be a little more cautious.  Why don't people see that good things come out of bad things if you let it?


You get your personal information compromised by hackers, and have all your money and credit card information stolen and used by some random person you don't know, and then come back and tell me you're grateful for it. i don't think you'd be here saying they're doing a heroic deed. If you did still think that way, you'd be either the biggest idiot on earth or a total lunatic that needs extensive mental evaluation and help. Any sane person would want them locked up at the very least.

The concept behind them is to cause chaos and feed their own egos. The end result was the strengthening of the hacking movement where the mentality lives that anyone can and should be hacked for fun or profit. It's not heroic, it's a transparent hacking ego fest at its worst. Posting millions of confidential emails and bits of user information online for anyone to take advantage of is evil, nothing less.

Last i heard, Batman stopped jackasses like these clowns from hurting and stealing. I definitely never read that comic where Batman turned computer hacking and stole millions of people's confidential data for his own entertainment or to pass off to thieves. I'd laugh to see that side of him.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

granville said:
			
		

> You get your personal information compromised by hackers, and have all your money and credit card information stolen and used by some random person you don't know, and then come back and tell me you're grateful for it. i don't think you'd be here saying they're doing a heroic deed. If you did still think that way, you'd be either the biggest idiot on earth or a total lunatic that needs extensive mental evaluation and help. Any sane person would want them locked up at the very least.
> 
> The concept behind them is to cause chaos and feed their own egos. The end result was the strengthening of the hacking movement where the mentality lives that anyone can and should be hacked for fun or profit. It's not heroic, it's a transparent hacking ego fest at its worst. Posting millions of confidential emails and bits of user information online for anyone to take advantage of is evil, nothing less.
> 
> Last i heard, Batman stopped jackasses like these clowns from hurting and stealing. I definitely never read that comic where Batman turned computer hacking and stole millions of people's confidential data for his own entertainment or to pass off to thieves. I'd laugh to see that side of him.



I know your point the first time you stated it; there really was no need to regurgitate it in different words. Well, I'm not an idiot, but I may be a total lunatic that needs extensive mental evaluation (which is more of an opinion of others based on how society defines someone who needs help). I am almost 22, I have 2 credit cards, I have had 2 cars in the last 5 years, I have had bad and good relationships. I have been a victim of credit card theft, I have had one car been a victim of hit and run and never got any compensation for damages. What happened? I wised up, these were all great life lessons that could only truly make a positive impact by going through it. I have learned from my mistakes like the people's data that was compromised will learn from their mistakes. They will, like me, forever know how to handle identity theft and they will learn to not get so butt hurt when it happens.

The problem with your egofest theoretical representation is that it's your opinion. To me, by my opinion, they are heroic, and I already mentioned I am a total lunatic so there really is no come back.

Batman stopped what he wanted to stop. Yes, it was his opinion to stop criminals, but he could of easily stopped anyone. Who is a jackass and who is not is totally based on your opinion. The problem where you are coming from is that your opinions are totally conditioned on society and it shows well when you have narrow mindset. In my mindset, companies are "jackasses like these clowns from hurting and stealing." 

Have you ever wondered why you like the things you do? Why you enjoy spending money to use the internet while 60 years ago there was no such thing as internet? You are conditioned to be happy spending your money on things like the internet while people 60 years ago never had the chance to be conditioned on such internet and yet they were still happy. Companies sir, are your culprit to why you enjoy the things you enjoy. For the record, if you are going to argue that well people 60 years ago never had the chance to enjoy the internet, your argument is flawed because the majority of people 60 years ago would rather not use the internet today, it makes them unhappy.



TL;DR
You still have unsuccessfully changed my opinion that they are heroes.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> They were like batman targeted against power hungry people. At least they put scare into companies.
> 
> The idea of Lulzsec are heroes. Sure I was not affected by it, but if I was I would be thankful knowing that I had known vulnerabilities and I should be a little more cautious.  Why don't people see that good things come out of bad things if you let it?



Except Batman was really damn powerful and owned the largest company in the city. EDIT: In fact, LulzSec are nothing like Batman. Batman fought crime. LulzSec wanted lulz. That was just a retarded metaphor.

I'm sure you wouldn't be as "thankful" if someone used the leaked information to steal your personal information. You'd thank them if they showed the company the loophole, not if they exploited it to be major douchebags.


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

There's nothing narrow minded about seeing LulzSec as what they really are- evil bastards out to cause mayhem and chaos at the expense of people who have done them no wrong.

You make no points with your "60 years ago, no internet" statements. Corporations or evil tyrants have always been around since the beginning of human history. Always. That is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that targeting the people under these corporations is an evil practice and going about it in the wrong way. On the fat chance that they actually thought they were doing something noble, it didn't work in causing these companies to stop their evil practices. It only made things worse.

As i said, no sane and intelligent person would call someone who stole from you heroic. You included if you had an inkling of sense. I would never consider hacking someone and stealing their confidential data a positive. As it is, lessons only need to be learned from this stuff BECAUSE these hackers commit such acts. Without them, we'd never have to worry about such things. It's illegal and evil, nothing more and nothing less. No amount of blame you put on a regular person can excuse the fact that hackers like LulzSec are the source of the problem.

There's no debate here. Having a laugh or receiving/spreading stolen goods at the expense of the people you hack (especially when they've done you no wrong) is simply illegal and evil. They're the problem, they are the ones who deserve the hate and blame here. Pretending like you can put the blame on people for being "stupid" is in itself stupid.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

Please take a few moments to read the last few posts. You will right away notice that you have not contributed anything more than what Granville has stated and I have already addressed Granville's statement.

My opinion still stands, they are heroes. You are looking into the batman thing too much indepth. I said that because Batman theoretically scared criminals and crime rate dropped just as Lulzsec scared ISP providers and other companies in being more cautious with their security.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

The reason why there is no debate is because whether or not they were heroic is an opinion. And you keep trying countless times to change my opinion and you keep strengthening it by making me think about the subject. Why is it so important for you to force your opinions down my throat? Then you add in there to be insulting, if your opinion is that they are heroic, then you are an idiot or not intelligent. 

If you want to debate whether or not I am intelligent, PM me. You out of all people, especially for being on the magazine staff, should respect people's opinions.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

I agree with Zetta. The very fact that all that Lulzsec did to companies and the US Government is even possible is a much needed kick to the arse. If Lulzsec wasn't as public as they were, would you have relied on your services to tell you? Citigroup took almost two months to tell people. I would have to say that if another more talented group silently hacked, you would hear nothing. At least Lulzsec gave fair warning. I'm not saying they're right, but they most certainly aren't wrong.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Please take a few moments to read the last few posts. You will right away notice that you have not contributed anything more than what Granville has stated and I have already addressed Granville's statement.
> 
> *My opinion still stands, they are heroes.* You are looking into the batman thing too much indepth. I said that because Batman theoretically scared criminals and crime rate dropped just as Lulzsec scared ISP providers and other companies in being more cautious with their security.



Of course your opinion still stands, it's _your_ opinion. And thank God for that  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Debating your "intelligence" is a waste of time. You can't debate with a know-it-all.


As for LulzSec, I hope they're done for good. Less headaches for victims and people who were annoyed with them.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

No, it's actually very possible to debate intelligence. However, it would take countless ages to define what intelligence is because that word is highly subjective. Something much more suitable in a PM then derailing this topic. Take any 5 tempers, we would all get different definitions of intelligence. Once the word is agreeably defined, it's a matter of pointing whether or not they fit the definition.

Another reason why, in my opinion, they are heroes is because it is something I wanted to do; show the world how disillusioned they are. Lulzsec showed how disillusioned people are security wise and why you shouldn't just be giving away your personal details on every website. I want to show the world that they are controlled by other people's opinions; I have spent countless hours over the last few years observing human behavior and figuring out where people are being conditioned by society. Things like growing grass, why is that appealing and why do so many people do it? Those are questions I think about and I have finally realized that we are completely disillusioned on other people's beliefs.


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## Thesolcity (Jun 26, 2011)

I've always seen it this way. My passwords (if hacked) weren't strong enough and I need to stop being retarded and change it. I read through some passwords of the pr0n sites and by God, I was appalled. Passwords like darkmen, coffee, 123456, qwerty, candy, were showing up *ROUTINELY*. This is crazy, we need to step up security, if there's this many exploits and hacks around, stop being lazy. Companies are missing out even basic security steps. Isn't technology's slogan "Evolve or die"? IF security doesn't "Evolve", our whole technical landscape will "die". Lulzsec was a necessary evil, no matter how you look at it, they didn't do anything with what they've received other than post it as proof for those who would mark it off as trolling. Because, the scary thing is, if they've hacked it, something else has too and isn't talking.


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> The reason why there is no debate is because whether or not they were heroic is an opinion. And you keep trying countless times to change my opinion and you keep strengthening it by making me think about the subject. Why is it so important for you to force your opinions down my throat?


I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm flat out saying you're dead wrong. Whether you want to agree or not is your own problem. I'm stating facts here. I have the utmost respect for opinions, and respect that you do have yours. But when something is a fact, it's a fact. Being a staff member does not automatically mean we have an obligation to keep our mouths shut or shy away from saying certain things. I would even dare to say that some people could present an argumentative opinion that someone who steals, rapes, and murders are heroes (doesn't mean they are though, but some random person might try to argue that they are).

Hacking people for fun and stealing and spreading information for other hackers to use against you is both illegal and malicious in nature. < Not an opinion, but a cold hard fact (you can disagree with the inherent legal and moral aspects if you like though). Comparisons to Batman is lol worthy though. Whatever issues you may find with a business doesn't discount the fact that LulzSec breaks the law and attacks people on the grounds of entertainment and providing other hackers with a means to steal people's information or money to do whatever the hell they want with it. That's something Batman would never do in order to "scare" the bad guys.

Out of some respect though, i shall honor your request to stop arguing with your hero opinion.

In regards to intelligence, i'd say the general consensus for a basic concept such as hacking would be pretty standard- few people would feel happy about being hacked and having data or money stolen. Same goes for believing the hackers are heroes.


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> No, it's actually very possible to debate intelligence. However, it would take countless ages to define what intelligence is because that word is highly subjective. Something much more suitable in a PM then derailing this topic. Take any 5 tempers, we would all get different definitions of intelligence. Once the word is agreeably defined, it's a matter of pointing whether or not they fit the definition.
> You just gave a lot of credibility to this statement
> QUOTE(phoenixgoddess27 @ Jun 26 2011, 01:43 PM) You can't debate with a know-it-all.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

DeathStrudel said:
			
		

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Well, know and how is indeed vital to a debate. If you know it all, you really cannot debate with such an individual. Might as well just give it up.


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

granville said:
			
		

> As it is, lessons only need to be learned from this stuff BECAUSE these hackers commit such acts. Without them, we'd never have to worry about such things. It's illegal and evil, nothing more and nothing less. No amount of blame you put on a regular person can excuse the fact that hackers like LulzSec are the source of the problem.



Honestly, that makes no sense, well it does but thats not how reality is.
There indeed ARE hackers on earth and they indeed do commit such acts, it's nonsense to say "if this and that wouldn't exist then xyz".
They DO exist, they did before LulzSec was even established, how is LulzSec the source of the problem here?

Even if hackers did not exist nowadays, some day someone would want to gather personal data and it would be easy for him because nobody has ever exploited secured systems so therefore no one knows about the holes in those systems.
Thats human nature, greedy, it's just normal that one day those files would get leaked or at least obtained by someone.

I rather have them leaked now than later on when there are even more files stored on servers.
One reason I won't get a Chromebook is exactly because it's cloud, I can only imagine that being the best target for hackers and LulzSec contributed to my awareness of that danger, who knows, before those hacks I might have said: "Who cares, if they release an online only OS im sure they make sure its secure.", simply thats not true.

Again reality is that hackers did, do and will exist, don't blame LulzSec, make the best out of what they have done and raise your awareness.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Jun 26, 2011)

DeathStrudel said:
			
		

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Fixed that for ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think it's easier to just put him on my ignore list than it is to sit here "debating" with him. You'll always lose.

LulzSec is nothing like Batman. I find that pretty laughable.
"Batman, kicking ass and hacking names."
Doesn't quite fit the "heroic" bill. To each their own, though. People find heroes in the strangest things.


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

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lol, I actually meant to put this not his


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

You keep regurgitating your words and you still have yet to convince me they are not heroes. The idea of a hero is an opinion. Criminals can be heroes under the right opinion. So when you say I'm flat dead wrong, you are saying that you don't agree with my opinion.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

@The Batman topic: You do know vigilante justice is against the law right? There is a reason behind the title of "Dark Knight". Justice and a sense of morality is a form of perception. Bruce Wayne wants justice, and takes the law into his own hands. Lulzsec wants to cause havok and raise awareness. Both would get into the papers, and one might even call them opposites. In truth though they are similar, and they both do what they set out to do in the first place.

The phrase "Each to their own." Comes to mind. We all have ways of dealing with the evils of the world. Some of us laugh, some take action, and some are Lulzsec. Whether or not you agree with the heroes thing, you must fess up to knowing what you deal with. You cannot argue ignorance when you are hacked.


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

Maybe a rather semi-fitting comparison but I think it is a little bit like that:

LulzSec have not done anything with your files, they released them, blame the people who raged on your accounts under your name.

When Geohot released his CFW he was defended by all the CFW lovers although he paved the path for playing backups. 

Thats what LulzSec did in my opinion just that they stay at the other side, costumers hate them as they were affected negatively because of the possibilities for others to log in to your account.

Geohot opened possibilities as well but they were positive for costumers so nobody blamed them.

Why blame LulzSec now?
As said I think the comparison lacks something, but its not unreasonable.


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> You keep regurgitating your words and you still have yet to convince me they are not heroes. The idea of a hero is an opinion. Criminals can be heroes under the right opinion. So when you say I'm flat dead wrong, you are saying that you don't agree with my opinion.


Just like somebody who is mentally retarded can be highly intelligent under the right opinion....


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

@Assax: Sometimes, your word ain't good enough for people. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can tell someone they're hacked, but you can't make them act on it unless you're Batman. The moral of this story is to be careful with who you trust, because you might just get burned.

@Death Strudel: I find that highly offensive. Mentally ill people don't have a choice in the matter, while everybody is entitled to their opinions.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm glad Sterling is also on the same lines as me. Which apparently by Granville and Guild makes you flat out wrong. Granville keeps saying things are facts but he doesn't realize that his facts are based on opinions.

I think we all agree this discussion is not converging towards an end but diverging off rails. Whether or not they were heroic is an opinion. We all have different opinions. I attempted to share your opinion and show you that there could be good from what they did. Sterling also attempted to strengthen this idea. We can see that from your opinion, we aren't going to convince you.

However, now we move onto the realm of my opinion where they are heroes. If you understood anything about my mind, you would see that it is futile to convince me otherwise that they were heroes as my first post suggested.

Nothing here is fact. What is heroic and the idea of what is heroic is entirely opinion based. I suggest we move on, it's Sunday, we all have better things to do.

---

Actually Death, I do have asperger's syndrome which does range on what people call autism. While I don't take offense (It's really hard to take offense of other people's opinions), you do make a good point.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 26, 2011)

Assax said:
			
		

> LulzSec have not done anything with your files, they released them, blame the people who raged on your accounts under your name.



That's like one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. If someone broke into your house and then just told a bunch of burglars to have a field day, should I not get angry at the guy who broke through my locks just because he didn't steal anything? Fuck no, he still invaded my privacy and still allowed my shit to get stolen.

I think people are getting too caught up in this need to "fight the power" to actually follow or support someone who fights it justly. There's a difference between being Batman and being Magneto, if you wanted a comic book character comparison.


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Actually Death, I do have asperger's syndrome which does range on what people call autism. While I don't take offense (It's really hard to take offense of other people's opinions), you do make a good point.


Did you know that people call asperger's autism unaccompanied by mental retardation?

edit: my mom's a psychologist and I have studied a bit myself so I really do know what I'm talking about btw


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

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You know, that comparison won't hold water. The digital locks are relatively new. The locks on your home are time tried and true apparatuses. The breaking and entering charges are also defined by law, but these are legal grey areas. Also, if your locks on your home are tied to a sensor in the front lawn, then you'll be getting the sort of lock on the internet. The weakest link is not always the end user, but is sometimes the person who installed the lock.


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## DeathStrudel (Jun 26, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

> @Death Strudel: Please, go research some more before you make more of an ass of yourself. Also, such syndromes are not psychological. They cannot be overcome by force of will.


lol, actually you should. Some people don't even consider autism to be mental retardation.
for example
"It is quite wrong to say that the vast majority of people with autism are also mentally retarded when quite the opposite is true. It is people who are incredibly intelligent who are more susceptible to being affected by autism because they are more sensitive to toxins in the environment, which triggers autism. Autism is like a barrier, a wall making it difficult for people with autism to express themselves. When people can’t express themselves properly it is very frustrating for them and children who are affected often tantrum."

my mom is a child psychologist that has autistic client's as well as those with Asperger's. If you had ever taken a psychology class you would most likely have learned about them too


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 26, 2011)

This topic isn't about autism, get back on topic ladies.

EDIT: @Death: I do support your argument for the topic but I only removed your posts because they were off topic. I didn't want you to think I was oppressing your point of view or anything.


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## emigre (Jun 26, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

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The misuse of digital data is comparable to burglary. With burglary your possessions are likely to be misused for example they sold on the black market. With digital data, you're looking at fraud. Ultimately the results could be devastating, the idea there's someone out there who has your personal  information is actually quite unnerving.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

@Emigre: Indeed it is. However, at home you are in your castle. You go onto the internet knowing that millions of users navigate around everyday. While only people you trust navigate your house daily. It is true they are comparable, but only just the effects. The emotional trauma and such cannot be simulated.

@Guild: Could you have at least waited for me to edit in some relevant points?


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## Densetsu (Jun 26, 2011)

If, while you were away on a business trip, a group of armed robbers broke into your house at night while your wife and children were sleeping, robbed the house of all your valuables, and for "teh lulz" decided to tie them up and violate them before leaving, would the robbers be heroes? Would it be a much-needed kick to the ass to get stronger bolts on the doors? What if the children were sleeping with the bedroom window open? Were they stupid for making it easy for the robbers to break in?

No.

No one "deserves" to have things stolen from them and have the most private aspects of their lives violated just "because they weren't careful."  LulzSec committed some heinous crimes and my deepest sympathy goes to those who were affected.  That's all I have to say about that.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

@Emigre: Indeed it is. However, at home you are in your castle. You go onto the internet knowing that millions of users navigate around everyday. While only people you trust navigate your house daily. It is true they are comparable, but only just the effects. The emotional trauma and such cannot be simulated. As much as we are on the internet, the vast majority of citizens know little of the risks.

@Guild: Could you have at least waited for me to edit in some relevant points?

@Densetsu: I still don't get these two comparisons. Of course robbers would be in the wrong. They take your valuables and sell them to people who don't own them. Lulzsec did not take your valuables. Lulzsec did not sell to the highest bidder. Lulzsec gave you ample warning. It's like looking up your address on google and telling the people who want to rob that there is an open house sign.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 26, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

> @Emigre: Indeed it is. However, at home you are in your castle. You go onto the internet knowing that millions of users navigate around everyday. While only people you trust navigate your house daily. It is true they are comparable, but only just the effects. The emotional trauma and such cannot be simulated. As much as we are on the internet, the vast majority of citizens know little of the risks.
> 
> @Guild: Could you have at least waited for me to edit in some relevant points?



I removed the post and you edited it just as I did so, my apologies.


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

@Assax

Believe it or not, i am well aware of reality and DO live in it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





My basic point was in regards to LulzSec not really helping to fight the issues, but helping to fan the fire instead. They're not hacking big corporations in order to help bring down the evil people within it, they're hacking random users who have nothing to do with the people in charge for their own egos and entertainment.

LulzSec is part of the problem. Not the only problem for sure, but they aren't helping any and they're a symbol of what's wrong. They're only making it worse for the people they're hacking, not for the evil corporates who might actually deserve such a takedown. Why not kill random innocent people in a country to try to make a point to the corrupt leaders? Makes little sense, especially when we're arguing what a "hero" is (someone who protects people against tyranny and injustice).



			
				Zetta_x said:
			
		

> You keep regurgitating your words and you still have yet to convince me they are not heroes. The idea of a hero is an opinion. Criminals can be heroes under the right opinion. So when you say I'm flat dead wrong, you are saying that you don't agree with my opinion.


No, i'm actually saying you're flat out wrong. One of the traditional definitions of a hero is someone who fights to protect innocent people. Unless our definitions happen to be different.

You're right though- a certain type of person can be of an opinion that villains are heroes (an opinion though, not a fact held by the rest of reality). If i were that sort of person, i could potentially try to make an argument that thieves, rapists, and murders who commit horrible atrocities are heroes. Perhaps if i raped and murdered the 4-year-old great grand daughter of any evil terrorist or tyrant, i'd be a hero. But no, that's not how reality actually works. By sane people grounded in reality, i'd be put on trial and tried as a sick child raping and murdering bastard. I'd be either sentenced to death or rot in prison for eternity. The only other option is my lawyer trying to declare me insane (big whoop), no sane person would try to make a court case that i'm a hero and that i deserve to be praised for what i did.

And in regards to LulzSec not actually making use of the hacked accounts- Not only can no one actually prove they didn't do anything with the data they collected (anonymous hackers, can you actually believe what they say?). Besides that though, the act of posting millions of passwords and confidential data online for everyone to see and them not being responsible for the hackings can be compared to the act of giving an arsonist a box of matches in a drought-strained wood. Or providing a serial killer a gun, or a child rapist a bunch of little kids. Thieves gonna steal if you directly provide them the tools and resources to do it.

Being a vigilante is illegal, but saving someone's ass from being attacked probably wouldn't end up causing many people to hate on you and call you evil. You stand a good chance of getting off if you saved someone from an evil act. Unlike stealing from random people for the lulz. Last i checked, Batman didn't steal from innocent people for fun or profit.

@Sterling

Someone still makes the choice to break the lock and enter, regardless of how strong or weak it is and how at fault the lock maker is. In the end, you'd have a case against a lock company if you found a serious fault in the lock. But you'd also have a case against the perpetrator of the break in and theft. In that case, both parties could be at fault, but the one who actually did the breaking is still the primary perpetrator for committing the crime in the first place. Nothing can change that fact. Why people can't wrap their head around that is beyond me.


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

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I was more or less reffering to granville because he said if people like this would not exist then we would not need a kick in the ass to be more aware etc etc.
Obviously I would blame the lockpicker as well, but the ones who did more damage were the burglars.

Like someone said, it was a needed evil in order to improve our awareness.
Its a shock to anyone whose files were leaked but people need that in order to start doing something about it nowadays.

Im not even arguing that what they have done did harm people or not, it obviously did, I'm just saying that without LulzSec nobody would even care about all those security flaws.
Maybe you're right and my statement is not totally in place but how else do you get people to change bad things?

If anything changed people's behaviour then it was something bad and shocking that affected many in a negative way in order to lead to major change.

Edit: 
This thread moves to fast in order to discuss about anyones opinion as much as I'd love to, which is a shame kinda =/
Until I put everything in words there are already 10 new posts that are worth a reply.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

Breaking and entering is a crime indeed. That is not what I am talking about. The very fact that Lulzsec broke the lock is indeed wrong. However, the argument that this makes them as bad as the robbers is silly. They did not do anything they did for the right reasons, but their reasons weren't wrong either. The other thing is that this is legal grey area. The law isn't as well defined as physical burglary.

@Guild: No problem. I'm glad to see you doing your duty. I'll happily edit out any OT content if asked.


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## Densetsu (Jun 26, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

> @Densetsu: I still don't get these two comparisons. Of course robbers would be in the wrong. They take your valuables and sell them to people who don't own them. Lulzsec did not take your valuables. Lulzsec did not sell to the highest bidder. Lulzsec gave you ample warning. It's like looking up your address on google and telling the people who want to rob that there is an open house sign.


I remember reading somewhere about someone anonymously posting on Craigslist that there was a house offering everything for free. He posted the address of a random house and people came and basically looted it because someone said everything was up for grabs, and the owner came home to find it had been ransacked. I don't see how that is amusing, and I don't see how what lulzsec did was any different.

*EDIT*
I'd love to continue this discourse and provide a link to the story, but I'm literally sitting in a plane ready to take off and have to shut off my phone soon


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

> Breaking and entering is a crime indeed. That is not what I am talking about. The very fact that Lulzsec broke the lock is indeed wrong. However, the argument that this makes them as bad as the robbers is silly. They did not do anything they did for the right reasons, but their reasons weren't wrong either. The other thing is that this is legal grey area. The law isn't as well defined as physical burglary.
> 
> @Guild: No problem. I'm glad to see you doing your duty. I'll happily edit out any OT content if asked.



As much as I agree with you about LulzSec etc. I'm trying not to be biased by my own opinion and think that talking about the law does not always makes sense.
Many things in the law are flawed in my opinion, things like what LulzSec have done should rather be discussed on the base of common sense. 
Written law cannot be applied to everything neatly, I think thats the case here.


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## wrettcaughn (Jun 26, 2011)

I'd have to agree with Densetsu9000.  I believe stealing user names, passwords, and credit card info is on the same level as the "violation" (since the R word is censored...) of my wife and child...

This is getting out of hand...


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

Assax said:
			
		

> I was more or less reffering to granville because he said if people like this would not exist then we would not need a kick in the ass to be more aware etc etc.
> Obviously I would blame the lockpicker as well, but the ones who did more damage were the burglars.
> 
> Like someone said, it was a needed evil in order to improve our awareness.
> ...


The issue i have with this logic is that without groups like LulzSec, who is to say such breaches would have happened at all? Not saying they wouldn't have, but i don't see this breach as any different than any other breach- it's still your information being stolen and spread out over the internet for anyone to have their way with it (regardless of the "reasoning" behind such a breach, it's still stealing). I would never consider theft a necessary evil when it shouldn't happen at all. What LulzSec did may more inspire other hackers to commit malicious acts than propel companies into improving security. That would be a major backfiring of that logic if you ask me.

I'm afraid that my messages are a bit unclear on something- i am NOT in support of companies who have lax security by any means. So let that statement be clear. But i do however put more blame on the perpetrator for being the source of needing good security in the first place.

I also don't think them giving away the data to other thieves makes it any less heinous of a crime. If i break into someone's house, steal their stuff, and give it away for free, i'm still going to be tried under the same crimes had i kept the stuff for myself or sold it. That doesn't make me innocent.

Posting house addresses online and telling people to go steal from them is not funny and is definitely evil and wrong.

As a side note, i can't remember the last time i've ever seriously gotten into a heated discussion like this before.


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## Sterling (Jun 26, 2011)

Densetsu9000 said:
			
		

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That's quite a pickle that guy had. I don't think that's amusing either. That was indeed inconsiderate. Question though, was the door locked?

@Granville: We are not arguing that the reasons were sound, or right. What we are debating though is that there are much more talented groups out there that do this stuff for a living. People who made every cent they have by computer fraud and identity theft. They are out there, and they strike swiftly and silently. At the worst, Lulzsec enabled these people. To be fair though, if these people wanted to get the information, they could have gotten it with ease.


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

granville said:
			
		

> The issue i have with this logic is that without groups like LulzSec, who is to say such breaches would have happened at all? Not saying they wouldn't have, but i don't see this breach as any different than any other breach- it's still your information being stolen and spread out over the internet for anyone to have their way with it. I would never consider theft a necessary evil when it shouldn't happen at all. What LulzSec did may more inspire other hackers to commit malicious acts than propel companies into improving security. That would be a major backfiring of that logic if you ask me.
> 
> I'm afraid that my messages are a bit unclear on something- i am NOT in support of companies who have lax security by any means. So let that statement be clear. But i do however put more blame on the perpetrator for being the source of needing good security in the first place.
> 
> ...



You're right, it is a breach like any other, what is different however is that LulzSec has done it continously, over and over.
They were all over the media etc etc they were able to make it so that many people get to know about it.
They announced the hacks and they hacked their announced targets, they shouted their accomplishments out to the public.
Other hackers don't do that, thats the difference in my opinion.

Other hackers just hack and sell your information without you knowing about it.
LulzSec on the other side released them for free, anyone was able to check if one is affected or not.
Again, yes it SHOULD not happen, but it does, many things happen although they *should not* thats the world we live in.

LulzSec did not break into the house, took the stuff and sold it, they "just" opened the door and left.
I think people who take advantage of an opened door are even worse than those who opened it.

I'm open to any opinion, I like discussions like these, they provide you with another point of view, so if what I say might have logical flaws I'm always open for corrections.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Jun 26, 2011)

Assax said:
			
		

> LulzSec did not break into the house, took the stuff and sold it, they "just" opened the door and left.
> I think people who take advantage of an opened door are even worse than those who opened it.


Lets consider the security of a website 'the door'. LulzSec opened this door, went in, stole valuables (In this case, user details) and gave them out for free.


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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Not exactly, its more like they opened a door and gave out the adresses of the opened houses.
As I mentioned, I find it sadder that there are many people who take advantage of leaked files instead of those who leak them, it somehow mirrors to what society has come to.
While I was in Japan last year I saw many bikes not being locked and never seen anyone taking the opportunity to steal them.


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## granville (Jun 26, 2011)

Assax said:
			
		

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No, it's more like they broke in, copied the lock and released the key mold for everyone to use. That's basically what a username and password combination is- a key. Same goes with posting the source code to certain sites or whatnot.


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## hunter291 (Jun 26, 2011)

Can someone who has the files please search for hunter291 ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only want to know if I am in it.


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## machomuu (Jun 26, 2011)

Doubt they're lying.  I don't think LulzSec is the type that would do that.


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

granville said:
			
		

> No, it's more like they broke in, copied the lock and released the key mold for everyone to use. That's basically what a username and password combination is- a key. Same goes with posting the source code to certain sites or whatnot.



Which all leads to the same, actions of previous intruders can be seen in "open for everyone" houses or in closed houses for which everyone has the key due to a blueprint of the key.
But I don't see how this contributes to the discussion at the moment as it is basically the same.


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## DeMoN (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm still bitter that they didn't use their skills to hack the 3DS.


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## shakirmoledina (Jun 26, 2011)

Good their gone
Lulzsec was like throwing a stone at a window and saying the window is fragile

absolutely silly philosophy to get lolz and excuse insecurity. Fancy words and acts may make ppl happy but it remains childish at the end.

PS - I feel they may have left due to fear of future detection


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## dickfour (Jun 26, 2011)

if one thing comes out of this I hope it's that corporations take security seriously and don't keep mishandling our private information. If Lulz made it public there's bound to be hundreds that don't tell anyone but rather sell the credit card numbers they harvest on the black market.


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## AP Hacker (Jun 26, 2011)

Everybody keeps saying "this should teach corporations to take better care of our information". You think the corporations held a meeting and said "let's make it stupidly easy to steal information from us"? Of course not.

Creating security is an *occupation*. You have to be hired. 
Hacking that security is a hobby. Anybody can get together with their friends, provided they have some knowledge of the field, and break that security.

Nothing is unhackable because there will always be more people attacking the security than there is to defend it.


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## chrisrlink (Jun 26, 2011)

yeah i feel though more sinister hackers will come out now ps that was crazy bout the fbi being hacked by them don't they have a high seciroty team rivaling that of the US military??


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## Assax (Jun 26, 2011)

AP Hacker said:
			
		

> Everybody keeps saying "this should teach corporations to take better care of our information". You think the corporations held a meeting and said "let's make it stupidly easy to steal information from us"? Of course not.
> 
> Creating security is an *occupation*. You have to be hired.
> Hacking that security is a hobby. Anybody can get together with their friends, provided they have some knowledge of the field, and break that security.
> ...



Lulzsec were - at least like they state - only made of 6 people.


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## Zetta_x (Jun 26, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> No, i'm actually saying you're flat out wrong. One of the traditional definitions of a hero is someone who fights to protect innocent people. Unless our definitions happen to be different.



There is the problem, we were looking at it with different perspectives. I was thinking they were heroes because they had the courage to do what they did, sure some of it if not all was malicious, but the fact they were able to do it in the first place made them my heroes.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 26, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

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> ...



There's courage and there's being stupid. What you wanted to say is that they had "the balls", and I assure you, consequences will be severe. The Police already got one of'em, Team Poison's on their tail too. They're leaving because they have to, not because they want to.

Hacking Scene *does not* work the way LulzSec thought. It all usually stays in the shadows, hackers hack for the heck of it, not for publicity, which is the exact opposite of what LulzSec was doing. In fact, a hacker goes out of his/her way to stay UNDETECTED and never to be found. LulzSec on the other hand was waving a huge banner saying "WE DID IT!".

That's not being a hero, that's being a moron. It's like breaking into someone's garage, stealing a car, than giving it a paint job saying "Hey, my name is Martin Whatever, I live in Ohaio, I stole your car for Teh Lulz!" and placing the car back in the garage. Makes sense? Of course it does not, because it's stupid to begin with.

Now can we please stop with the LulzSec crap? The world is a better place without them, mmm-kay?


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## Deleted-188346 (Jun 27, 2011)

The only thing that LulzSec proved is that anything is hackable...

...whoopee...

...we already knew that. No company has ever promised that it is unbreakable.
Even if you use your credit card in a store, your PIN and Account number can be skimmed.
If you take your cash outside, it can be stolen.
If you drive your car, you can be carjacked, or your car can be broken into later.
If you have a Steam account, it can be hacked.

It never ends.

All that LulzSec did is show that these companies aren't so tough, which, of course, is going to invite other (more malicious) hackers to continue to make peoples lives miserable.


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## ferofax (Jun 27, 2011)

*turns around and raises X-marked right arm*


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## FAST6191 (Jun 27, 2011)

I think I am in the neither condone nor condemn crowd although I see several factors at play and I do not doubt I am overlooking many more. For me at best an interesting phenomenon and I guess by virtue of that alone it will be somewhat memorable although this sort of thing is not all that novel. I might have chosen to tweak the data (did a bit of hashing to the end of enough to tell sort if thing) to make it fit for release.


I will state though I have not seen any analysis of the attacks and if it was just a bunch of simple SQL injections (although being vulnerable to such things in this day and age is a noteworthy oversight) it loses the "how novel" compliment I might pay them.

I have issues with some of the analogies being tossed around here (I have issues with most analogies in a moral debate) if only because before that starts we need to establish the scope of "ill" actions and so far as I know nobody in history has pulled that one off yet and probably never will but I wish to avoid discussing that as it does not look like it will lead anywhere interesting. I only hope this choice will stand up and I can avoid making more but get my point across. Back on topic as it were and continuing with the factors at play thing


The notion of privacy and it being something worth having and it being forced into the spotlight where it has effectively danced on the edges for some time (although I do not wish to suggest this was a cause and effect thing).

The idea that the trust unpinning a lot of things is misplaced. To say nothing of what is considered valuable data [insert dig at social security numbers] and how it works [insert dig at credit scores].

Re: Got together and decided let us have bad security.
Because inaction (either by straight up inaction or fobbing it off on Johnny just did three years of java) counts for nothing?

Re: Stealing is still stealing whether from a bank vault or secured with a post it.
Certainly but there is another phrase that needs to be mentioned and it is "duty of care".

"Finally they're gone. The should just contacted the companies and tell them to get their shit straight. If they didn't THEN they should make the shit public.. "
Such things have been done for years. In a way this might have been a "the old way is not working" type of thing.

"My data"
Several things occur to me at this juncture.
It was not your data but the data holders (give or take licensing concerns) but that feels like restating things said elsewhere in this reply at best or a cop out at worst so I am not inclined to ponder it for too much longer.
Was the data worth the service? (assuming an unmolested system).
Following the duty of care thing might it cut both ways?

"At first I used to like them but after they published my personal info I started to hate them. "
No reply at the moment I just wanted to quote it.

"Deserve"
An interesting concept and it is no accident it follows the last quote. Certainly I would not begrudge a few moments of my time to help someone pick up a few pieces of their electronic existence as it were but more generally 

"out to cause mayhem and chaos at the expense of people who have done them no wrong"
I want to rephrase that
"...undertook actions that were likely to cause some measure of mayhem in their wake and likely those on the receiving end had no reason to expect attack". Were I to be so bold as to read in some underlying logic to their actions I would say something like "can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Certainly it sucks to be the eggs though.".

@Foxi4 and the hacking scene certainly there are many that follow that ethos and "culturally" speaking it is a very important one but I find it hard to believe that it is even the majority ethos/philosophy (pen testing both commercial and otherwise (the likes of backtrack), the ever popular colours of hats err debate and all the various related branches of hacking culture (lock picking, the conventions, the books and so on).
[edit]@Puppy_Washer before you head further into this can I point you at the definitions of social engineering and cryptography/electronic security[/edit]


I see I am drifting off into something more resembling a philosophical debate with more than a pinch of sociology and wondering at the big picture appearing so I think I will end with two main links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CWrzVJYLWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDW7kobM6Ik

and a sentence along the lines of

These are interesting times we live in where physical force counts for less and less (I might liken it to the introduction of the crossbow), the ability to comprehend the effect of things is actually lessened vs biology ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTO_dZUvbJA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM...;feature=relmfu , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQItB5uoiHI...feature=related ), we are starting to reap what has been sown with regards to the idea of privacy and the treatment of it, motivations for people at least have the potential to be radically different to what traditionally might have came before and frankly I would not go back.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 27, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> ...we already knew that. No company has ever promised that it is unbreakable.



Well, Sony sort of did.


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## redact (Jun 27, 2011)

granville said:
			
		

> On the fat chance that they actually thought they were doing something noble, it didn't work in causing these companies to stop their evil practices. It only made things worse.


it did in at least one case...
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/037...Internet-Filter
(though it was an unintended plus in this case because telstra wasn't directly targetted)


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## GreatZimkogway (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't get why people are bitching about their personal info being leaked...guess what.  Corporations and other private places've been selling that shit for years and years.  How do you think they make their money?  Your info isn't private.  Never was.  Stop acting like it was.


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## omgpwn666 (Jun 27, 2011)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> I don't get why people are bitching about their personal info being leaked...guess what.  Corporations and other private places've been selling that shit for years and years.  How do you think they make their money?  Your info isn't private.  Never was.  Stop acting like it was.



That's true, but corporations are nicer with our personal info, unlike regular internet users who change peoples profile pictures into genitals and use our credit cards for funzies.


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## Densetsu (Jun 27, 2011)

Densetsu9000 said:
			
		

> Sterling said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Finally got home and had some time to look up the actual news article I read about the craigslist hoax.  

Tacoma woman's house emptied after craigslist hoax

The article doesn't say whether the door was locked, but I think that's besides the point.  Had the prankster not placed that ad on craigslist, her house would not have been robbed.  I'm not saying that it couldn't possibly be robbed in a separate incident, but the idea here is that someone posted online that another person's property was free for the taking, so people jumped on it.  That's basically what lulzsec did.  I'm a prankster in real life and I love pulling them and even being on the receiving end, but this crosses a line.  

Anyway I'm sure a lot of people are tired of the lulzsec debate, so I will refrain from commenting any further in this thread.


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## Aeladya (Jun 27, 2011)

Well I'm kinda glad...it was kinda getting boring anyway. Maybe they figured that as well. They'll probably quiet down or something for a while and randomly pop up again.


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## Deleted-188346 (Jun 27, 2011)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> Huge post up above.
> Everything you said is fairly irrelevant.
> Yes, we pay a fee (which is part of any transaction with any company) that guarantees that our information will be kept safe *to the best of the abilities of the company in question*.
> No company will ever be entirely hackproof. Every system can be broken with enough talent, hardware, and patience.
> ...


Since when?


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## Assax (Jun 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They were referring to their PS3 system structure, related to reverse engineering, not their web presence etc etc. so that is kinda out of place here.


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## Maedhros (Jun 27, 2011)

And not a single fuck was given that day.

Seriously, they did nothing, they didn't bring anything good... kinda the other way, they probably helped the guys who wants a regulated internet.

They'll not be missed. Fuck them.


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## Terminator02 (Jun 27, 2011)

after finally reading this whole thread, i'd have to agree the most with this post



			
				Puppy_Washer said:
			
		

> The only thing that LulzSec proved is that anything is hackable...
> 
> ...whoopee...
> 
> ...


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## ZeroHikari (Jun 27, 2011)

Terminator02 said:
			
		

> after finally reading this whole thread, i'd have to agree the most with this post
> 
> 
> 
> ...



have to agree with all of that except one thing - "No company has ever promised that it is unbreakable." sounds like someone forgot about the GeoHotz VS Sony SoftMod incident....


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## ZeroHikari (Jun 27, 2011)

LulzSec is DONE? should i also point it this might be because they got hacked themselves?
search around the forums about "The A Team" hacking LulzSec and posting everything about them....


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## Maedhros (Jun 28, 2011)

ZeroHikari said:
			
		

> Terminator02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They said? I mean... People says that but I don't remember when the company said that they were unhackable. 

And even if they said, what's wrong with that? These hacks most of the time leads to piracy, so it's just a company trying to protect their product. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Joe88 (Jun 28, 2011)

I searched and couldnt find anything about it, just other people saying it


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