# GOP Traffics illegal immigrant into washington



## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-ap-texas-greg-abbott-joe-biden-b2171596.html


Really? Just... Really?


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

Republicans: we got a immigration problem! How do we show that we have one?
Desantis and Abbot: I got an idea! Let's get them into a carvan and planes, and put more into the country! And then frame it as the failure of the woke left!
Any sane person:... Why not just use real cases if this is widespr-
Abbot and Desantis: nononono we can't do that. Too hard to find
Person: then it's not as widespread-
Republican: LOOOOOK ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DEM FAIL!


Edit: anyways. I'm going to link a some news.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Republicans: we got a immigration problem! How do we show that we have one?
> Desantis and Abbot: I got an idea! Let's get them into a carvan and planes, and put more into the country! And then frame it as the failure of the woke left!
> Any sane person:... Why not just use real cases if this is widespr-
> Abbot and Desantis: nononono we can't do that. Too hard to find
> ...


They aren't letting more people in. They are just following the current laws in regard to that.

That you are having a temper tantrum now shows that you didn't care about the situation until it started affecting you. Biden's administration has been a completely failure in regards to having a secure border. People are now finally waking up.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Last I checked, human trafficking is a felony in this country.  Doing it under the guise of a political stunt is even worse, not better.  If the cops won't arrest these criminal scumbags for it, the citizens need to.

Additionally, border states receive a lot of federal funding and resources for the migrants which are expected to cross into them.  So it seems like these governors are making a good case for revoking that funding.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Last I checked, human trafficking is a felony in this country.  Doing it under the guise of a political stunt is even worse, not better.  If the cops won't arrest these criminal scumbags for it, the citizens need to.
> 
> Additionally, border states receive a lot of federal funding and resources for the migrants which are expected to cross into them.  So it seems like these governors are making a good case for revoking that funding.


So is it legal when the Biden administration flies minors around in the middle of the night? Must be (D)ifferent.
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-administration-quietly-flies-illegal-140450591.html

If you actually care about human trafficking, look into the complete lack of documentation about what has happened to those kids.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> So is it legal when the Biden administration flies minors around in the middle of the night? Must be (D)ifferent.
> https://news.yahoo.com/biden-administration-quietly-flies-illegal-140450591.html
> 
> If you actually care about human trafficking, look into the complete lack of documentation about what has happened to those kids.


What a fucking stupid comparison.  Yes, it is obviously different when immigrants have to be moved for processing or to be reunited with their families.  GOP governors are luring immigrants with fake promises of welfare/job opportunities, and having them dropped off in random neighborhoods or in front of their political opponents' houses.  Never in places that are prepared to handle them, nor are these governors acting on behalf of immigration services.  They're doing it entirely as smug, self-serving stunts, which means they bear the sole responsibility of their criminal actions.

They're not winning anybody's vote with this, and nobody with two brain cells to rub together believes Trump's ten miles of new border wall was actually slowing illegal immigration.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They're not winning anybody's vote with this, and nobody with two brain cells to rub together believes Trump's ten miles of new border wall was actually slowing illegal immigration.


It's about 80 miles of new, with over 450 miles total and much of what replaced is something a child was able to easily bypass.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46748492

Edit: @Xzi I'll take the laughter without a response as you not having an argument. But feel free to find evidence and prove my source wrong.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> It's about 80 miles of new, with over 450 miles total and much of what replaced is something a child was able to easily bypass.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46748492


Ooh so 80 miles of new wall on a 2000 mile border.  Very impressive.  

It _should_ make you wonder where the majority of that money went. Fearmongering over "migrant caravans" is nothing but a smoke and mirrors act to make you look elsewhere while Trump and the GOP pick your pockets themselves. Especially considering that they're also the ones hiring a significant portion of illegal immigrants, thus drawing more to the US.


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## SG854 (Sep 29, 2022)

They want slaves


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ooh so 80 miles of new wall on a 2000 mile border.  Very impressive.
> 
> It _should_ make you wonder where the majority of that money went. Fearmongering over "migrant caravans" is nothing but a smoke and mirrors act to make you look elsewhere while Trump and the GOP pick your pockets themselves. Especially considering that they're also the ones hiring a significant portion of illegal immigrants, thus drawing more to the US.


Again, just over 450 miles were built while Trump was in office. So 22% of the entire border built in about two years after all the fighting for funding. This was with about $15 billion in funding, contrasting $54 billion spend on Ukraine so far.

You can find a current map to really understand how and why the wall was replaced where it was. The large area in the middle is very difficult terrain which is why there wasn't already barriers in place, much of it was separated by the Rio Grande and large canyons. But overtime a manmade barrier will be erected.

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/border-wall-system


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## Luke94 (Sep 29, 2022)

How about those people that are behaving like Angus MacGyver,Gadget Hackwrench,Leonardo Da Vinci,John Titor,Norman Osborn,Harry Osborn,Rick,Morty? Well Joe Biden is President of United States.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Snip


I don't care, dude.  There are plenty of videos that demonstrate the new wall is just as easy to go over, around, or straight through using supplies you can buy at Home Depot. And you didn't address the fact that Republican executives are not only allowing for, but encouraging the hiring of illegal immigrants.  Even Trump was still hiring them at his hotels while in office.  It's such an obvious grift, and you're so obviously an idiot for falling for it.

You wanna discuss _actual_ solutions for slowing illegal immigration? There are two options, which can be combined for maximum effectiveness if you want. One is punishing execs from the top down for hiring illegal immigrants, not with something ignorable but with actual prison sentences (5-10 years should do the trick, and not at club fed). A few of them do hard time and the rest would take notice real quick. Two is a path to citizenship which encourages migrants to register with the state from the outset, thus preventing employers from exploiting their labor for less than minimum wage. That way, American citizens who might want the same jobs can actually compete. We also need to raise minimum wage, but that's a bit of a tangent.

The GOP will never agree to either of these policies, because, you guessed it: they don't actually want to fix the problem.  They just want to play both sides of it for eternity, ensuring the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  All the while using migrants as political footballs instead of treating them like human beings.


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## omgcat (Sep 29, 2022)

they will do anything, ANYTHING to distract from the fucked scenario that is the Dobbs ruling and removal of abortion access in a large chunk of America. but honestly for independent voters bussing migrants and removing abortion access has been a HUGE losing move, hence Desantis cancelling the movement of migrants to Biden's residence in Delaware.


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## erikas (Sep 29, 2022)

GOP: close the border.
Dems: no.
GOP: can we at least deport the ones that we caught?
Dems: no.
GOP: ok, then have them and deal with them yourselves.
Dems:WAAAAAAAAAAA


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I don't care, dude.  There are plenty of videos that demonstrate the new wall is just as easy to go over, around, or straight through using supplies you can buy at Home Depot. And you didn't address the fact that Republican executives are not only allowing for, but encouraging the hiring of illegal immigrants.  Even Trump was still hiring them at his hotels while in office.  It's such an obvious grift, and you're so obviously an idiot for falling for it.


TLDR, I don't have an argument but I do have a bunch of whataboutisms. blah blah blah.

Hauling  around hundreds of pounds for an industrial cutter, generator and fuel, or plasma torch with propane tank is just as easy as carrying around a pair of bolt cutters that got through the previously existing fence.

Oh I know, the migrants are coming with heavy construction to tunnel under the wall. Checkmate, I guess the wall doesn't work.



Xzi said:


> You wanna discuss _actual_ solutions for slowing illegal immigration? There are two options, which can be combined for maximum effectiveness if you want. One is punishing execs from the top down for hiring illegal immigrants, not with something ignorable but with actual prison sentences (5-10 years should do the trick, and not at club fed). A few of them do hard time and the rest would take notice real quick. Two is a path to citizenship which encourages migrants to register with the state from the outset, thus preventing employers from exploiting their labor for less than minimum wage. That way, American citizens who might want the same jobs can actually compete. We also need to raise minimum wage, but that's a bit of a tangent.
> 
> The GOP will never agree to either of these policies, because, you guessed it: they don't actually want to fix the problem.  They just want to play both sides of it for eternity, ensuring the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  All the while using migrants as political footballs instead of treating them like human beings.


I don't know, border crossing were down to almost nothing compared to where they are today when Trump was in office. What changed? Oh the perception that the border is open and people can come right in.

But yes their should be penalties for knowingly hiring people who aren't eligible to work. However, many are using SSNs to attempt to bypass the checks. What level of verification does the local grocery store, or Subway shop need to do to not face charges if staff is found to not be eligible.

BTW, you used that dirty term "illegal immigrants" be sure to report to reeducation camp in the next 48 hours for your firmware update to fix the coding bug that allowed that to slip through.


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

erikas said:


> GOP: close the border.
> Dems: no.
> GOP: can we at least deport the ones that we caught?
> Dems: no.
> ...


GOP: traffics in immigrants with tax payer dollars.
Also GOP: Democrats are promoting illegal immigrants.

Look if your going to just do double think all day I'll leave you to it, since I'd rather not use my last remaining braincells trying to get through your thick skull what's actually happening instead of the kool-aid you've been drowning in.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> GOP: traffics in immigrants with tax payer dollars.
> Also GOP: Democrats are promoting illegal immigrants.
> 
> Look if your going to just do double think all day I'll leave you to it, since I'd rather not use my last remaining braincells trying to get through your thick skull what's actually happening instead of the kool-aid you've been drowning in.


Complaining about double think right after blaming the GOP for the current immigration crisis.

But you are the second lefty to use "illegal immigrants", sounds like the busing and flights are working.


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I don't know, border crossing were down to almost nothing compared to where they are today when Trump was in office












Hmm, 50? more than the last 5 years? who was the last Pres-
oh never mind. I'll provide like, two more low effort posts and them I'm out.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Hmm, 50? more than the last 5 years? who was the last Pres-
> oh never mind. I'll provide like, two more low effort posts and them I'm out.


You do realize that's 50 arrests of people "*ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST*" not just general arrests. With border crossings down under Trump they weren't attempting to slip by in the chaos. Some I'm not sure what are you trying to argue? Maybe that Biden's border policies are a total failure?


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-ap-texas-greg-abbott-joe-biden-b2171596.html
> 
> 
> Really? Just... Really?


Love it. Love it. Love it. 

Dump the problem on the doorsteps of the folks who actually WANT more criminals in America. 

It's almost poetic.


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> You do realize that's 50 arrests of people "*ON THE TERROR WATCH LIST*" not just general arrests. With border crossings down under Trump they weren't attempting to slip by in the chaos.


LMAO.
Again, your showing double think
WHAT DO YOU THINK ARRESTED MEANS????
Does it mean a free coffee and a free entry into the country? If it's more, it's like more strict, not more relaxed.


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Love it. Love it. Love it.
> 
> Dump the problem on the doorsteps of the folks who actually WANT more criminals in America.
> 
> It's almost poetic.


so you support human trafficking? Noted.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I don't care, dude.  There are plenty of videos that demonstrate the new wall is just as easy to go over, around, or straight through using supplies you can buy at Home Depot. And you didn't address the fact that Republican executives are not only allowing for, but encouraging the hiring of illegal immigrants.  Even Trump was still hiring them at his hotels while in office.  It's such an obvious grift, and you're so obviously an idiot for falling for it.
> 
> You wanna discuss _actual_ solutions for slowing illegal immigration? There are two options, which can be combined for maximum effectiveness if you want. One is punishing execs from the top down for hiring illegal immigrants, not with something ignorable but with actual prison sentences (5-10 years should do the trick, and not at club fed). A few of them do hard time and the rest would take notice real quick. Two is a path to citizenship which encourages migrants to register with the state from the outset, thus preventing employers from exploiting their labor for less than minimum wage. That way, American citizens who might want the same jobs can actually compete. We also need to raise minimum wage, but that's a bit of a tangent.
> 
> The GOP will never agree to either of these policies, because, you guessed it: they don't actually want to fix the problem.  They just want to play both sides of it for eternity, ensuring the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  All the while using migrants as political footballs instead of treating them like human beings.


Raising the minimum wage is not going to stop HORDES of CRIMINALS surging past our borders, unchecked. 

Nothing will stop the sense of entitlement of criminals who only want to take advantage of America and bring their problems here, instead of staying home and fixing their own countries. 

How many illegals have YOU harbored and sheltered? Do you want them at YOUR front door?


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> so you support human trafficking? Noted.


I support any and all methods to prevent criminals from being allowed to stay here. 

I support snipers at the border. Full authority to fire at will. Not joking in the slightest. No exceptions.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

Yeah the GOP are human traffickers, this has been pretty well documented. The only person who supports the GOP anymore is psychotic and probably just wants to see humans suffer.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> LMAO.
> Again, your showing double think
> WHAT DO YOU THINK ARRESTED MEANS????
> Does it mean a free coffee and a free entry into the country? If it's more, it's like more strict, not more relaxed.


You are aware there are 1,000 to 8,000 border crossing happening daily depending on the specific day. With 50 arrested, I've very concerned how many slipped through without being detected.

What happened to those people on the terror watch list who were arrested? At least one was let go and went to a suburb of Detroit, and is awaiting further action.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> GOP: traffics in immigrants with tax payer dollars.


Republicans and Conservatives thrive on hypocrisy. Hating immigrants until it’s politically convenient for them to have immigrants around, seems like standard Conservative behavior. They also know that their voter base will go through hoops to defend anything they do.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Republicans and Conservatives thrive on hypocrisy. Hating immigrants until it’s politically convenient for them to have immigrants around, seems like standard Conservative behavior. They also know that their voter base will go through hoops to defend anything they do.


 Seriously, you can see the doublethink just straight up in this thread. Republicans literally do not believe in anything. It's all just temporary aesthetics adopted based on whatever they're told will "own the libs" or some cringey shit.


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## Luke94 (Sep 29, 2022)

James Bond Agent 007,UFO/Aliens...etc.


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

I kid you not, not even a year ago
Republicans: "There's a flood of illegal immigrants"
Republicans now:"Let's see how well Democrats and those sanctuary cities handle 'illegal' immigrants, by using tax payer dollars. Traffic them across the country, just to prove that they are bad"
If they were consistent and not doing double think or speak, they would of tried to pull a "real world" example, instead of staging one. Which if you have to stage one, that pretty heavily shows that they're full of bullshit.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Seriously, you can see the doublethink just straight up in this thread. Republicans literally do not believe in anything. It's all just temporary aesthetics adopted based on whatever they're told will "own the libs" or some cringey shit.


Which is why I stopped caring to hear what they have to say. It would be nice to have a conversation with them if they ever had a consistent stance on a topic. Instead it’s always constantly changing their position to fit whatever the current Conservative mind set is on or whatever they think will trig the libs.
Plus, I try not to engage with people who hate freedom and Conservatives hate freedom


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Which is why I stopped caring to hear what they have to say. It would be nice to have a conversation with them if they ever had a consistent stance on a topic. Instead it’s always constantly changing their position to fit whatever the current Conservative mind set is on or whatever they think will trig the libs.
> Plus, I try not to engage with people who hate freedom and Conservatives hate freedom


Yeah, pretty much. Conservative replies to my posts are usually unhinged insecure rants. I've started just not reading them.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

*snip


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## DinohScene (Sep 29, 2022)

Next one that derails this thread with or without trans bullshit gets a vacation.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

I won’t be surprised if this ties into another political stunt revolving around immigrants in the future. Seems like the go-to strategy of the GOP is to find some means of creating an illegal immigrant boogeyman. Like the 2016 migrant caravans that the GOP hyped up until it was no longer politically convenient for them.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

Honestly, isnt there like a immigration problem on the boater? Just a question. NTM aren't they allow to send them back or put them in sanctuary states? Just a question


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Honestly, isnt there like a immigration problem on the boater? Just a question. NTM aren't they allow to send them back or put them in sanctuary states? Just a question


The illegal immigration problems are vastly overstated to drum up support from boomers and nationalists. Normally the policy was to just arrest em and then turn em around back into Mexico, but under Trump they were incarcerated in concentration camps under ICE, where'd they stay there for significant periods of time because we didn't have enough judges to handle illegal immigration cases, so they just kinda...rotted in camps. Their conditions are well documented but highly distressing if you're sensitive to that level of human suffering.

Only the GOP could look at an eager workforce and tax bracket and go "Hmm, sorry, wrong skin color, you gotta suffer now."


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> under Trump they were incarcerated in concentration camps under ICE


Small correction, this was started under the Obama administration but was amped up under Trump and still happening under Biden. None of them are free of sin on this one


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

DinohScene said:


> Next one that derails this thread with or without trans bullshit gets a vacation.


You know, I may have been wrong about you. You DO play fair. 

Most of the time, these topics derail immediately as soon as a conservative shows up, and they get roundly bashed by everyone, and no one gets checked. It's usually the same culprits. It's actually always the same culprits. Always. 

Anyway, thanks for proving me wrong. Perception altered.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> The illegal immigration problems are vastly overstated to drum up support from boomers and nationalists. Normally the policy was to just arrest em and then turn em around back into Mexico, but under Trump they were incarcerated in concentration camps under ICE, where'd they stay there for significant periods of time because we didn't have enough judges to handle illegal immigration cases, so they just kinda...rotted in camps. Their conditions are well documented but highly distressing if you're sensitive to that level of human suffering.
> 
> Only the GOP could look at an eager workforce and tax bracket and go "Hmm, sorry, wrong skin color, you gotta suffer now."


Question, With the new law in place, wouldn't they move all immigrants to sanctuary states? also i thought that the problem was HUGE


The Catboy said:


> Small correction, this was started under the Obama administration but was amped up under Trump and still happening under Biden. None of them are free of sin on this one


I believe ICE started it in 2002? i think?


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Question, With the new law in place, wouldn't they move all immigrants to sanctuary states? also i thought that the problem was HUGE
> 
> I believe ICE started it in 2002? i think?


2003 and I am talking more about the most recent issues like the literal concentration camps and putting kids in cages. They apparently didn’t do all of that until the Obama era.


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## DinohScene (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> You know, I may have been wrong about you. You DO play fair.
> 
> Most of the time, these topics derail immediately as soon as a conservative shows up, and they get roundly bashed by everyone, and no one gets checked. It's usually the same culprits. It's actually always the same culprits. Always.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for proving me wrong. Perception altered.



Never judge a book by its cover.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

DinohScene said:


> Never judge a book by its cover.


I LOVE being proven wrong. 

The cool thing is, once someone proves you wrong once about a specific topic or issue, you can never be proven wrong again because you own the truth. I consider it a gift to be proven wrong, not a blow to the ego.

Thank you for that gift.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Small correction, this was started under the Obama administration but was amped up under Trump and still happening under Biden. None of them are free of sin on this one


 Correct, but the blame for the amping lies with Trump where it was at its most unethical, which was moreso the point of my post. The dems are complicit with evil of course.



sombrerosonic said:


> Question, With the new law in place, wouldn't they move all immigrants to sanctuary states? also i thought that the problem was HUGE


To my knowledge there's a lot of red tape involved with people, mainly psychos on the right, trying to obstruct it and keep them in camps instead. Like, words cannot describe the human rights _*nightmare*_ that our border is right now because of these incredibly racist policies.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Correct, but the blame for the amping lies with Trump where it was at its most unethical, which was moreso the point of my post. The dems are complicit with evil of course.


That’s why small correction UωU I often find people putting the blame squarely on Trump. He is to blame for the current state of affairs but can’t ignore where it started or where it’s going. Plus, kids are still in cages and it’s frustrating and fucked up that Biden hasn’t done shit and most people have stopped talking about that. Seriously, these distractions with obvious fake immigration problem is contributing to kids still being in cages.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That’s why small correction UωU I often find people putting the blame squarely on Trump. He is to blame for the current state of affairs but can’t ignore where it started or where it’s going. Plus, kids are still in cages and it’s frustrating and fucked up that Biden hasn’t done shit and most people have stopped talking about that. Seriously, these distractions with obvious fake immigration problem is contributing to kids still being in cages.


I imagine that in a few months once the Roe shit is no longer milkable by Pelosi she'll move to some moronic shit like "DONATE TO THE DNC TO GET THE KIDS OUT OF CAGES!!!" when the kids are in cages...because the DNC isn't getting rid of them.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That’s why small correction UωU I often find people putting the blame squarely on Trump. He is to blame for the current state of affairs but can’t ignore where it started or where it’s going. Plus, kids are still in cages and it’s frustrating and fucked up that Biden hasn’t done shit and most people have stopped talking about that. Seriously, these distractions with obvious fake immigration problem is contributing to kids still being in cages.


Obama put those kids in cages, sooo...

Biden/Barry Hussein 2.0 has done nothing about it. And his cackling cuckold has not handled a single bit of the problem she was assigned to take care of. Why? Why does she not care until they are in HER yard?


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I imagine that in a few months once the Roe shit is no longer milkable by Pelosi she'll move to some moronic shit like "DONATE TO THE DNC TO GET THE KIDS OUT OF CAGES!!!" when the kids are in cages...because the DNC isn't getting rid of them.


Dear sweet twerking Christ, we agree on something. 

The world must be ending. I KNEW that NASA DART mission meant more than they revealed. 

The asteroid is coming, folks. Get bunkered down.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Obama put those kids in cages, sooo...
> 
> Biden/Barry Hussein 2.0 has done nothing about it. And his cackling cuckold has not handled a single bit of the problem she was assigned to take care of. Why? Why does she not care until they are in HER yard?


Did you not read my post? This feels like you didn’t read my post. Either that or you are agree with me on questioning why Biden hasn’t done anything about the kids in cages. Why is the very issue I am am bringing up and would like people to draw their attention towards and away from distractions


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> The illegal immigration problems are vastly overstated to drum up support from boomers and nationalists. Normally the policy was to just arrest em and then turn em around back into Mexico, but under Trump they were incarcerated in concentration camps under ICE, where'd they stay there for significant periods of time because we didn't have enough judges to handle illegal immigration cases, so they just kinda...rotted in camps. Their conditions are well documented but highly distressing if you're sensitive to that level of human suffering.
> 
> Only the GOP could look at an eager workforce and tax bracket and go "Hmm, sorry, wrong skin color, you gotta suffer now."


Not entirely, Trump did fight for the remain in Mexico policy.

What is going on is that NGOs in the US and providing support for the caravans of migrants, as well as documentation on what to say to claim to apply for asylum. The remain in Mexico policy would have the people apply, and then they would stay in Mexico while they wait for their asylum hearing.

Prior to this policy, they would apply for asylum, and then be released in the US to go wherever they wished and they just had to show up for their asylum hearing. If they showed up for their hearing. The remain in Mexico policy grew the same backlash from Mexican as US border states have. This caused Mexico to mobilize their military and prevent some of the caravans at Mexico's southern border.

But of course with many other things Biden signed away the policy day one and it was challenged. With the Supreme Court recently siding with Biden that he had the authority to do so.

After they applied they were free to return home and wait for their date, no one was forcing them to remain in the camps. They just wouldn't be released to go wherever they wished in the US.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Did you not read my post? This feels like you didn’t read my post. Either that or you are agree with me on questioning why Biden hasn’t done anything about the kids in cages. Why is the very issue I am am bringing up and would like people to draw their attention towards and away from distractions


I guess am sorry? I DO agree that the DNC needs to do more to actually pay for the votes that they offered succor for.

You have not exactly ever treated me with even the slightest modicum of dignity or respect. Please forgive me that I didn't provide you the attention that you feel that you deserve. I can't even list the amount of insults you have hurled at me, and you are on my ignore list. I don't think we will ever truly be able to engage in intellectual intercourse due to your bigotry.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Hauling around hundreds of pounds for an industrial cutter, generator and fuel, or plasma torch with propane tank is just as easy as carrying around a pair of bolt cutters that got through the previously existing fence.
> 
> Oh I know, the migrants are coming with heavy construction to tunnel under the wall. Checkmate, I guess the wall doesn't work.


Or they could just use a circular saw.  Or a ladder and some rope.  Point is, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the modern world who can't outsmart a wall.  That money would've been better spent on literally anything else.  What little money actually went toward the wall and not into Trump's pocket, anyway.



SScorpio said:


> I don't know, border crossing were down to almost nothing compared to where they are today when Trump was in office.


And yet he was claiming mass migration was still a major problem during his 2020 campaign.  Almost like Republicans only bring this topic up close to election time.  



SScorpio said:


> But yes their should be penalties for knowingly hiring people who aren't eligible to work. However, many are using SSNs to attempt to bypass the checks.


So they're using SSNs that don't match their identities and corporations just aren't bothering to check?  I don't buy it.  Most know full well that they're hiring migrants who illegally crossed the border, because they pay them under the table and less than minimum wage.



SScorpio said:


> BTW, you used that dirty term "illegal immigrants" be sure to report to reeducation camp in the next 48 hours for your firmware update to fix the coding bug that allowed that to slip through.


I used the term "illegal immigration" to specify that it's the act which is illegal, not the people themselves.  Asking for asylum is _not_ illegal, OTOH, but the Trump administration treated it as a crime nonetheless.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I used the term "illegal immigration" to specify that it's the act which is illegal, not the people themselves.  Asking for asylum is _not_ illegal, OTOH, but the Trump administration treated it as a crime nonetheless.


If the ACT is illegal, then why are you supporting criminals? You literally just admitted that the ACT is illegal, which any logical person would take to mean that you understand that NONE of the fifty who were sent to Martha's Vineyard were actually asylum seekers, and ALL were committing, as you said, as CRIMINAL ACT. 

What do you call someone who commits a criminal act? I'll give you three guesses. The first two don't even count. 

Say it with me. CRI-MI-NALS. 

Thanks for playing.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That’s why small correction UωU I often find people putting the blame squarely on Trump. He is to blame for the current state of affairs but can’t ignore where it started or where it’s going. Plus, kids are still in cages and it’s frustrating and fucked up that Biden hasn’t done shit and most people have stopped talking about that. Seriously, these distractions with obvious fake immigration problem is contributing to kids still being in cages.


An important thing to remember is why the kids are "in cages". They are being separated by the people they are traveling with until it can be verified they are traveling with guardians. There have been many documented cases of people having children that they weren't guardians of in an attempt to get preferential treatment and speed through the system.

Add in all the unaccompanied minors in many of caravans and the majority of them even down to pre-teen children have been raped on their journey. It really makes me question their parents on sending their children to be abused and trafficked.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> If the ACT is illegal, then why are you supporting criminals? You literally just admitted that the ACT is illegal, which any logical person would take to mean that you understand that NONE of the fifty who were sent to Martha's Vineyard were actually asylum seekers, and ALL were committing, as you said, as CRIMINAL ACT.


Two wrongs don't make a right, DeSantis and Abbott also committed the criminal act of human trafficking rather than turning the migrants over to ICE or immigration services.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right, DeSantis and Abbott also committed the criminal act of human trafficking rather than turning the migrants over to ICE or immigration services.


There aren't two wrongs to compare, here, though. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with incarcerating criminals.

If you break the law in crossing the border into a sovereign nation, you are, by definition, a criminal.

Transporting a CRIMINAL to a jurisdiction that has promised to offer sanctuary to CRIMINALS is not an illegal act, and is definitely not human trafficking, considering that 100% of the people dumped in Martha's Vineyard agreed to go there, because at least that meant that they wouldn't be sent back HOME. Where THEY BELONG. This is NOT their home, and they are NOT entitled to anything except a bus ride back to wherever they came from. 

Not my pig, not my farm. 

I do not CARE about the welfare or well-being of criminals, to be completely frank. They aren't Americans. They aren't my countrymen. They aren't trying to contribute to the betterment of this country. They are selfish lawbreakers who think the laws do not apply to them.

There is nothing at all morally wrong or even questionable about upholding the rule of law. The LAW is that you cannot illegally invade this country just because your life sucks. It's sad, but it's true. And I simply do not care about criminals. Which is what all of these people are, except for the innocent children being carted across the border by coyotes.

Man, woman and child, they should all simply be sent back home. They can try again, the right way. The legal way.

No one has a problem with LEGAL immigration. Let me say that again, in case it didn't sink in.

NO ONE, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, HAS ANY PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

But that's not what we're talking about, is it?


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> There aren't two wrongs to compare, here, though. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with incarcerating criminals.


They weren't incarcerated.  They were bussed by individuals to a different state, which is the very definition of human trafficking.  You can't pretend to be "tough on crime" if you're only concerned about crimes committed by brown people.



Neo Draven said:


> I do not CARE about the welfare or well-being of criminals, to be completely frank. They aren't Americans. They aren't my countrymen. They aren't trying to contribute to the betterment of this country. They are selfish lawbreakers who think the laws do not apply to them.


Whether you care about their welfare or not is irrelevant, as is any sterotyping you might choose to engage in.  They're still human beings, not political campaign flyers you can ship via USPS.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Man, woman and child, they should all simply be sent back home. They can try again, the right way. The legal way.
> 
> No one has a problem with LEGAL immigration. Let me say that again, in case it didn't sink in.
> 
> ...


I'd argue we need to kill off lotteries and chain immigration before claiming there are no issues with legal immigration.

But yes legal immigration at a whole makes the country better, but some of the current polices are very questionable.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They weren't incarcerated.  They were bussed by individuals to a different state, which is the very definition of human trafficking.  You can't pretend to be "tough on crime" if you're only concerned about crimes committed by brown people.
> 
> 
> Whether you care about their welfare or not is irrelevant, as is any sterotyping you might choose to engage in.  They're still human beings, not political campaign flyers you can ship via USPS.


You keep bringing up "brown people". Feels like you have some kind of fixation on skin color. 

Again, the leftists and Democrats are the only people bringing up race. NO ONE who is a conservative ever even brings up race. 

It's about the criminal ACT of which you spoke. Not their ethnicity or nation of origin. You need and desperately WANT it to be about race, because then you can move the goalpost, and turn it into something about racism. 

Conduct a quick thought experiment with me, though. Imagine that there are people out there who actually care about the rule of law, and want it applied blindly to everyone, regardless of race, religion or gender (of which there are only two, which cannot be chosen or changed based on feelings). 

In that instance, these people are all criminals, and none of them deserve to be here. 

What is your argument against THAT?


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They weren't incarcerated.  They were bussed by individuals to a different state, which is the very definition of human trafficking.  You can't pretend to be "tough on crime" if you're only concerned about crimes committed by brown people.
> 
> 
> Whether you care about their welfare or not is irrelevant, as is any sterotyping you might choose to engage in.  They're still human beings, not political campaign flyers you can ship via USPS.


Why are you only respectful once a moderator has stepped in and warned you? 

Just wondering. You had an awful lot to say before, and before this. 

I just find that interesting. I have never once attacked you. You can't say the same. 

Combat ideas, not people. I hope you can learn something from that philosophy.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> What is going on is that NGOs in the US and providing support for the caravans of migrants, as well as documentation on what to say to claim to apply for asylum.


This is a good thing. More labor after Covid fucked up our supply chains is a *GOOD* thing.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> This is a good thing. More labor after Covid fucked up our supply chains is a *GOOD* thing.


More LEGAL labor.

LEGAL.

LEEEEEGAL.

It sounds like you want to exploit "brown people" for cheap wages, since these brown folk will do the dirty work that the evil GOP voters and MAGA supporters are too good for. 

Is that what you are saying, buddy?


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> You keep bringing up "brown people". Feels like you have some kind of fixation on skin color.


Literally the first time I've mentioned it, and solely because you're tying yourself in knots trying to justify criminal acts committed by white Republican governors.  If I could guarantee you that the migrants who illegally crossed the border were going to vote Republican, would you give them special treatment too?



Neo Draven said:


> Why are you only respectful once a moderator has stepped in and warned you?


I've received no warning from this thread.  I had a reply deleted because it was an image-only post, that's it.  I still maintain your belief that we should station "fire at will" snipers on the border is abhorrently fascist.


----------



## Smoker1 (Sep 29, 2022)

Apparently Trump wanted this done in 2019. Grab Migrants from the Border, make sure they are Criminals, especially Murderers, Rapists, you name it, take them and just dump them in Sanctuary Cities, Blue States/Cities. Those Idiots that did this just tried to redo what Trump was trying to do.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Literally the first time I've mentioned it, and solely because you're tying yourself in knots trying to justify criminal acts committed by white Republican governors.  If I could guarantee you that the migrants who illegally crossed the border were going to vote Republican, would you give them special treatment too?
> 
> 
> I've received no warning from this thread.  I had a reply deleted because it was an image-only post, that's it.  I still maintain your belief that we should station "fire at will" snipers on the border is abhorrently fascist.


That's cool. You can have that belief. I will fight til I die to support your right to that belief. 

I don't care if you agree or not. I promise you, though; a few hundred snipers at the border, working for even one week, would INSTANTLY curb the tide of criminals thinking they can just willy-nilly saunter across the border. 

That is a sacrifice I am willing to make. Sign me up. Day one. I would consider this my karmic duty to my country. No pay. 

It's better than fifty illegal immigrants dying of suffocation in a box truck because of a coyote who cared less about their lives than YOU do, sitting safely behind a computer monitor ranting on a gaming website about problems that don't impact you in the slightest. 

I return to an old question I asked you before; how many illegal immigrants have YOU personally taken in, sheltered, clothed and fed? How many strangers would you allow in YOUR home?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I still maintain your belief that we should station "fire at will" snipers on the border is abhorrently fascist.


It absolutely, in literally every regard is. If the illegal nature of it is the problem, then support naturalization programs and labor/education programs to promote legal immigration. The only reason anyone would come to a conclusion like "I want people to shoot brown people at the border" is because they are a mask off psychopath.

Of course, that's being generous to a guy who thinks he's cooler than he actually is. The reality is I think he's just doing this for attention. His beliefs are undoubtedly fascist, but I don't think he's brave enough to ever enact or witness them.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

Reminder folks, human lives are still human lives, preferably, if you deem them a criminal, at least give them a judge. Not the executioner before that.

Back on topic, though, really watching a pretzel fold.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I guess am sorry? I DO agree that the DNC needs to do more to actually pay for the votes that they offered succor for.
> 
> You have not exactly ever treated me with even the slightest modicum of dignity or respect. Please forgive me that I didn't provide you the attention that you feel that you deserve. I can't even list the amount of insults you have hurled at me, and you are on my ignore list. I don't think we will ever truly be able to engage in intellectual intercourse due to your bigotry.


Why do you think you deserve respect from me? Your first interaction with me was disrespecting me. This very thread you literally said that I didn’t exist. I have no intentions of respecting someone who deliberately disrespects my existence. You can pretend I am wronging you but it’s very obvious who’s the asshole in all of this and it ain’t the person who’s existence was attacked by you.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It absolutely, in literally every regard is. If the illegal nature of it is the problem, then support naturalization programs and labor/education programs to promote legal immigration. The only reason anyone would come to a conclusion like "I want people to shoot brown people at the border" is because they are a mask off psychopath.
> 
> Of course, that's being generous to a guy who thinks he's cooler than he actually is. The reality is I think he's just doing this for attention. His beliefs are undoubtedly fascist, but I don't think he's brave enough to ever enact or witness them.


Not even close to what I said. 

I said that there should be snipers at the borders preventing criminals from invading the country, which would be true of any nation on the planet that enforced border laws. 

YOU brought up "brown people". 

I have not once mentioned race, or even any country besides America. You KEEP putting words in my mouth. 

Stick to what I said. Stop moving the goalpost. Stop extrapolating. Stop creating Strawmen. 

I know logic is hard for leftists, but give it a try, at least once. I believe in you.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

Here's my question, why even entertain positions like "uhhh I want people to uhhhh shoot immigrants because uhhhhhhh the law?" Like, they're dumb, move on, and the positions die without attention.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> That's cool. You can have that belief. I will fight til I die to support your right to that belief.
> 
> I don't care if you agree or not. I promise you, though; a few hundred snipers at the border, working for even one week, would INSTANTLY curb the tide of criminals thinking they can just willy-nilly saunter across the border.
> 
> ...


_Of course _you'd just selectively ignore the first half of my post after being cornered. Since you're arguing for the death penalty in the case of a misdemeanor though, surely you're in favor of giving Abbott and DeSantis the electric chair for committing felonies too?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

Stop derailing the tread @The Catboy and @Neo Draven its not going to end well for both of you


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Here's my question, why even entertain positions like "uhhh I want people to uhhhh shoot immigrants because uhhhhhhh the law?" Like, they're dumb, move on, and the positions die without attention.


"I want every nation to be empowered to use any and all means necessary, including the use of lethal force, to prevent hordes of illegal immigrant criminals from rampaging over their borders". 

That is precisely my message. There is no mention of any specific nation. No mention of any race or ethnic background. 

Anything else added to that statement is something YOU invented, not me. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. 

Any and all nations on this planet have the right to defend their national borders from criminals, by any means necessary. 

Please show me where I mentioned race.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Stop derailing the tread @The Catboy and @Neo Draven its not going to end well for both of you


Neither of them is derailing insofar as I can see?  Just discussing Draven's ridiculous morals, or lack thereof.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Stop derailing the tread @The Catboy and @Neo Draven its not going to end well for both of you


I am not derailing. We are specifically discussing how to deal with the GOP "trafficking" illegal immigrants. They are attacking my CHARACTER, and I am giving my opinion on POLICY relating to the exact subject matter.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Neither of them is derailing insofar as I can see?  Just discussing Draven's ridiculous morals, or lack thereof.


I want to give you a "Good form, brother", but only halfway. You are still supporting ad hominem. 

You ARE better than this. Come on, man. Let's rock. Let's solve this problem.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

So, the solution to the GOP trafficking problem is to make open borders. Discuss.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> So, the solution to the GOP trafficking problem is to make open borders. Discuss.


Please support your argument. Then we can dissect it.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> You ARE better than this. Come on, man. Let's rock. Let's solve this problem.


The only problem I see is that you aren't willing to acknowledge crimes committed by anyone who aligns with your political party of choice.  One would think you'd hold governors to a higher standard than migrants or even an average US citizen.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The only problem I see is that you aren't willing to acknowledge crimes committed by anyone who aligns with your political party of choice.  One would think you'd hold governors to a higher standard than migrants or even an average US citizen.


How is it a crime, if they are not here illegally, sir? 

Weren't you one of the ones falsely claiming that 100% of the people "trafficked" were TOTES ASYLUM SEEKERS? 

That is llogical. People seeking asylum would not have been quite literally CAUGHT at the border. And had they been granted asylum, not a soul would have been on that plane to Martha's Vineyard. So, literally all of them were criminals, under detention by the United States of America, being sent to a sanctuary state that promised to take them in and take care of them. 

Until they showed up on their doorstep. And NOW it's racist and NOW it's wrong. 

Please fill me in, because I am obviously less educated than you. My ears hunger for your wisdom. 

(I am not a Republican and do not support the GOP. I am a South Park Lbertarian. We've had this talk)


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

Im still wondering why we needed a wall at all? Well i kinda understand.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I am not derailing. We are specifically discussing how to deal with the GOP "trafficking" illegal immigrants. They are attacking my CHARACTER, and I am giving my opinion on POLICY relating to the exact subject matter.


Wanting to shoot people for crossing imaginary boarders is a pretty shitty position to have and should be attacked.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> How is it a crime, if they are not here illegally, sir?
> 
> Weren't you one of the ones falsely claiming that 100% of the people "trafficked" were TOTES ASYLUM SEEKERS?


I did not make any such claim, and it's irrelevant how many were or were not asylum seekers.  The definition of HUMAN trafficking only requires that they are HUMAN, which they are.  The legal thing for Abbott and/or DeSantis to do would have been handing over the migrants to ICE or immigration services.  Since they did neither of those things and decided to use the migrants for a political stunt instead, a stunt which they funded with TAXPAYER MONEY by the way, they were in violation of the law every step of the way.


----------



## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

For anyone bringing up race. It's not just Central and South Americans that are coming over. Africans and Asians have also been found. So people are flying into Mexico or a South American country and then using the porous border to gain entry into the US when they previously were unable to gain entry via legal means.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Wanting to shoot people for crossing imaginary boarders is a pretty shitty position to have and should be attacked.


Being WILLING to shoot criminals as a warning to the hundreds of thousands of others who have no respect for a sovereign nation to enact and enforce its own border policy is a defensible stance throughout any point of history, in any nation in the world. 

You keep referring to these folks as "people crossing borders", or "migrants". 

THEY ARE NOT. 

No political party has a single problem with LEGAL IMMIGRATION. 

THESE ARE NOT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. 

Stop moving the goalpost, and stop putting words in my mouth. I do not support just shooting brown people. I do not support murdering anyone.

Defending a national border from criminals is not murder. That is national defense, and is both just and right. You won't convince me otherwise. My means may be more extreme than you're willing to deal with, and that's okay. I simply don't care. No other method has worked. Time for the snipers. That WILL work.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I did not make any such claim, and it's irrelevant how many were or were not asylum seekers.  The definition of HUMAN trafficking only requires that they are HUMAN, which they are.  The legal thing for Abbott and/or DeSantis to do would have been handing over the migrants to ICE or immigration services.  Since they did neither of those things and decided to use the migrants for a political stunt instead, a stunt which they funded with TAXPAYER MONEY by the way, they were in violation of the law every step of the way.


Where were you when Biden did the same thing?

Also, they DID the legal thing. All of these criminals agreed to be sent to another state. They promised that they were a sanctuary state in Martha's Vineyard. So, send these folks to the ones who promised to take them in and provide for them, even though they are criminals. I am a big supporter of State's Rights. 

These folks were simply transported, legally, to a jurisdiction whose State legislation promised to accommodate them. I see no problem whatsoever. No different than being transported from one prison to another. Except this one has lobster, and a bunch of white leftists who obviously don't want those brown people there. 

Whatchya got for THAT, friend?


----------



## Viri (Sep 29, 2022)

When Florida busses you out of Florida, and into a rich people's island. Sounds to me like Florida was doing the migrants a favor, by getting them the fuck out of Florida. lol


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Where were you when Biden did the same thing?


Biden has not done the same thing.  You're probably referring to immigrants being moved for processing or to be reunited with their families.  In other words, operations conducted by ICE or immigration services.  That's arguing in bad faith.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Biden has not done the same thing.  You're probably referring to immigrants being moved for processing or to be reunited with their families.  In other words, operations conducted by ICE or immigration services.  That's arguing in bad faith.


If you were a single father, an American citizen, and you got a DUI with your daughter in the car, would YOU be reunited with your family if you could not afford bail before you were released from jail? 

Yes or no?


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Being WILLING to shoot criminals as a warning to the hundreds of thousands of others who have no respect for a sovereign nation to enact and enforce its own border policy is a defensible stance throughout any point of history, in any nation in the world.
> 
> You keep referring to these folks as "people crossing borders", or "migrants".
> 
> ...


That's a lot of words for a shitty position to hold. What about just making the process of becoming legal an easier one that doesn't require such an extreme response to people wanting to come to the US? Why make it harder for people trying to find a better life elsewhere? Is that's literally the entire point of the US


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That's a lot of words for a shitty position to hold. What about just making the process of becoming legal an easier one that doesn't require such an extreme response to people wanting to come to the US? Why make it harder for people trying to find a better life elsewhere? Is that's literally the entire point of the US


But that is NOT what we are talking about, ma'am. What we are talking about is the false accusation that the GOP broke a law by "trafficking humans". 

I would love to sit here and discuss solutions to the ILLEGAL immigration crisis that we are facing, but I don't think you have any solutions besides, "Make it easier". 

Glass houses, sister. It's easy for YOU to say because you live here. What are your solutions? All I've heard are recriminations.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Im still wondering why we needed a wall at all? Well i kinda understand.


It was entirely for show. During that entire attention seeking shutdown he did, the Democrats constantly offered deals like drones, more guards, judges for illegal immigration (something you literally fucking need to turn people away with) and he rejected literally all of it, the only thing he wanted money for was a stupid wall that wouldn't even work. Even now the only thing we have in response are some chain link fences that are getting cut and some proof of concept shit that's still sitting dead in empty plots of useless land as a reminder that walls, in fact, do not work.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/shutdown-enters-33rd-day-u-141806369.html


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Also, they DID the legal thing. All of these criminals agreed to be sent to another state. They promised that they were a sanctuary state in Martha's Vineyard. So, send these folks to the ones who promised to take them in and provide for them, even though they are criminals. I am a big supporter of State's Rights.
> 
> These folks were simply transported, legally, to a jurisdiction whose State legislation promised to accommodate them. I see no problem whatsoever. No different than being transported from one prison to another. Except this one has lobster, and a bunch of white leftists who obviously don't want those brown people there.


They were coerced by fake promises of housing, welfare, and job opportunities. The receiving states were not informed, nor were the migrants sent to a location with the proper resources to process them. Again, the ONLY legal thing to do would've been turning them over to ICE or immigration services. Since they did not, Abbott and DeSantis committed felony human trafficking. Fifty counts of it, for that matter. Lock 'em up.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It was entirely for show. During that entire attention seeking shutdown he did, the Democrats constantly offered deals like drones, more guards, judges for illegal immigration (something you literally fucking need to turn people away with) and he rejected literally all of it, the only thing he wanted money for was a stupid wall that wouldn't even work. Even now the only thing we have in response are some chain link fences that are getting cut and some proof of concept shit that's still sitting dead in empty plots of useless land as a reminder that walls, in fact, do not work.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/now/shutdown-enters-33rd-day-u-141806369.html


You know what WOULD work? It starts with S and rhymes with "wipers".


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It was entirely for show. During that entire attention seeking shutdown he did, the Democrats constantly offered deals like drones, more guards, judges for illegal immigration (something you literally fucking need to turn people away with) and he rejected literally all of it, the only thing he wanted money for was a stupid wall that wouldn't even work. Even now the only thing we have in response are some chain link fences that are getting cut and some proof of concept shit that's still sitting dead in empty plots of useless land as a reminder that walls, in fact, do not work.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/now/shutdown-enters-33rd-day-u-141806369.html


A better idea would be to keep a wall, like a chain wall then have people patrol it


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> A better idea would be to keep a wall, like a chain wall then have people patrol it


That's what the democrats proposed, Trump threw a shitfit over it and kept the shutdown going, which hilariously fucked with our ability to actually charge people for tresspassing the border. The guy was a complete failure of a president all around.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They were coerced by fake promises of housing, welfare, and job opportunities. The receiving states were not informed, nor were the migrants sent to a location with the proper resources to process them. Again, the ONLY legal thing to do would've been turning them over to ICE or immigration services. Since they did not, Abbott and DeSantis committed felony human trafficking. Fifty counts of it, in fact.


Prove it. Don't just post a news article. Show me that anyone was actually offered ANYTHING, besides a Venezuelan who had already, BY YOUR OWN ARTICLE, failed at crossing multiple times. 

Let's go back to that tired old logic thing that the left hates. 

If he FAILED. MULTIPLE TIMES. TO CROSS THE BORDER. What could possibly make you believe that THIS time, he came the right way? Dear glorious bootyclapping Jebus. 

Comparative evil negates neither evil. Even if you were right. These criminals were being lawfully processed and sent to the jurisdiction that promised to process and take care of them. 

Once it happened, NOW you're fannyharmed. Cheers.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They were coerced by fake promises of housing, welfare, and job opportunities. The receiving states were not informed, nor were the migrants sent to a location with the proper resources to process them. Again, the ONLY legal thing to do would've been turning them over to ICE or immigration services. Since they did not, Abbott and DeSantis committed felony human trafficking. Fifty counts of it, for that matter. Lock 'em up.


Also, they could not have been coerced to COME HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. 

It wasn't until they got CAUGHT that they could even have been provided these materials. 

Do you logic, bro? I know you can do this. I seriously want you to do better. You are the only person on this thread on my level. Please, please do better.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> That's what the democrats proposed, Trump threw a shitfit over it and kept the shutdown going, which hilariously fucked with our ability to actually charge people for tresspassing the border. The guy was a complete failure of a president all around.


Stupid question but is there any proof for it? sry if im asking to much, using most of my CPU power for other things like helping a guy with his 3DS


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Prove it. Don't just post a news article. Show me that anyone was actually offered ANYTHING, besides a Venezuelan who had already, BY YOUR OWN ARTICLE, failed at crossing multiple times.
> 
> Let's go back to that tired old logic thing that the left hates.
> 
> If he FAILED. MULTIPLE TIMES. TO CROSS THE BORDER. What could possibly make you believe that THIS time, he came the right way? Dear glorious bootyclapping Jebus.


What the fuck are you on about now?  I already told you, whether they crossed legally or illegally is irrelevant, it doesn't change how the crime of human trafficking is defined.



Neo Draven said:


> These criminals were being lawfully processed and sent to the jurisdiction that promised to process and take care of them.


No they were fucking not.  The states they were sent to had no clue they were coming, and they were dropped off in random neighborhoods, not immigrant processing centers.  Complete randos rallied around them to help take care of them until they could be taken to the right place, but that changes nothing about the crimes committed by Abbott and DeSantis.  Just admit that you're a hypocrite who's fine with crime as long as it's being committed by Republican big-wigs.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Stupid question but is there any proof for it? sry if im asking to much, using most of my CPU power for other things like helping a guy with his 3DS


https://www.wionews.com/world/democ...tive-to-trump-wall-in-shutdown-impasse-192380
Similar to the previous article I linked, it mentions at the bottom that Trump would repeatedly refuse to pay attention to any bills that came to him that weren't related to funding his meme wall. He refused to budge when Democrats actively tried to work with him, and because of his temper tantrum over it there is now no wall.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> But that is NOT what we are talking about, ma'am. What we are talking about is the false accusation that the GOP broke a law by "trafficking humans".
> 
> I would love to sit here and discuss solutions to the ILLEGAL immigration crisis that we are facing, but I don't think you have any solutions besides, "Make it easier".
> 
> Glass houses, sister. It's easy for YOU to say because you live here. What are your solutions? All I've heard are recriminations.


And there we go again, disrespecting me. You don’t want to have a conversation, you just want to be an asshole and expect to be treated with respect


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> And there we go again, disrespecting me. You don’t want to have a conversation, you just want to be an asshole and expect to be treated with respect


I didn't treat you with disrespect. Every term I used was either one of respect or one of endearment.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> And there we go again, disrespecting me. You don’t want to have a conversation, you just want to be an asshole and expect to be treated with respect


Which is why the only correct position is not to be respectful. No one pretends to hold a position like "I want minorities shot at the border" for attention without being a bad person.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> https://www.wionews.com/world/democ...tive-to-trump-wall-in-shutdown-impasse-192380
> Similar to the previous article I linked, it mentions at the bottom that Trump would repeatedly refuse to pay attention to any bills that came to him that weren't related to funding his meme wall. He refused to budge when Democrats actively tried to work with him, and because of his temper tantrum over it there is now no wall.


Well, there is SOME wall, but that's because Trump took funds earmarked for emergency response from the military to build it.  The irony of Republicans defunding the military for a vanity project is pretty damn tasty, IMO.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> What the fuck are you on about now?  I already told you, whether they crossed legally or illegally is irrelevant, it doesn't change how the crime of human trafficking is defined.
> 
> 
> No they were fucking not.  The states they were sent to had no clue they were coming, and they were dropped off in random neighborhoods, not immigrant processing centers.  Complete randos rallied around them to help take care of them until they could be taken to the right place, but that changes nothing about the crimes committed by Abbott and DeSantis.  Just admit that you're a hypocrite who's fine with crime as long as it's being committed by Republican big-wigs.


It IS relevant when you have SANCTUARY CITIES AND SANCTUARY STATES. 

Any designation declaring themselves to be such should be more than well-equipped to handle any criminals who are sent their way. The only reason Martha's Vineyard declared itself to be a sanctuary city is because there isn't a horde of illegal criminal immigrants showing up at their doorstep...

Until there WAS one. And now you see your true colors, shining through. Ship 'em off, right? No lobster for YOU. YOU get to go to a military base, because WE have no jobs or housing for you. 

Tee to the motherfucking hee. I am sitting back and loving watching you self destruct from your own hypocrisy.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I didn't treat you with disrespect. Every term I used was either one of respect or one of endearment.


Cute that you think that but it’s obvious what the intentions are. Pretending that they are “terms of endearment,” doesn’t change the obvious reason why you used them. But I am not shocked, you can pretend to be the good person here but you aren’t. You are an asshole


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Well, there is SOME wall, but that's because Trump took funds earmarked for emergency response from the military to build it.  The irony of Republicans defunding the military for a vanity project is pretty damn tasty, IMO.


$801 billion budget. They can give up a few bucks. Maybe some of the BILLIONS we uselessly sent to Ukraine could have gone towards border defense. 

That money ( at least $54 billion, wasn't it?) would have built hundreds of hospitals in America to help disabled veterans. Thousands of high schools. But, feelings.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> It IS relevant when you have SANCTUARY CITIES AND SANCTUARY STATES.


That would only be relevant if the migrants traveled there by their own means and of their own free will.  Abbott and DeSantis funded the journey on a bus across state lines, thus making them felons.  End of story.  All there is left to discuss is whether or not you support that kind of criminality, and based on how long you've chosen to draw this out, I think we can all assume that yes, you do.

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Frank Wilhoit


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Cute that you think that but it’s obvious what the intentions are. Pretending that they are “terms of endearment,” doesn’t change the obvious reason why you used them. But I am not shocked, you can pretend to be the good person here but you aren’t. You are an asshole


I was raised in the South, properly. I was raised to refer to all women as "Ma'am" and all men as "Sir". 

If I feel comfortable enough around you, I will call you "brother" or "sister". 

I am sorry for overstepping my boundaries. "Ma'am" it is.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> https://www.wionews.com/world/democ...tive-to-trump-wall-in-shutdown-impasse-192380
> Similar to the previous article I linked, it mentions at the bottom that Trump would repeatedly refuse to pay attention to any bills that came to him that weren't related to funding his meme wall. He refused to budge when Democrats actively tried to work with him, and because of his temper tantrum over it there is now no wall.


Well, partially there IS one but was never completed due to the biden administration shutting it down


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That would only be relevant if the migrants traveled there by their own means and of their own free will.  Abbott and DeSantis funded the journey on a bus across state lines, thus making them felons.  End of story.  All there is left to discuss is whether or not you support that kind of criminality, and based on how long you've chosen to draw this out, I think we can all assume that yes, you do.
> 
> “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Frank Wilhoit


They DID travel there by their own means, by their own free will. 

Had they not illegally invaded a sovereign nation as criminals, they would have wherewithal to go where they pleased. But they didn't. Because they are all entitled criminals who didn't want to come here the right way. 

They are not worthy to be Americans. They need to GO HOME. But you would have bitched about that, too. 

I notice you ignored my question about what would happen to you and your daughter if you got busted for DUI. That did not slip by me. That was not a rhetorical question, and you still dodged it.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I was raised in the South, properly. I was raised to refer to all women as "Ma'am" and all men as "Sir".
> 
> If I feel comfortable enough around you, I will call you "brother" or "sister".
> 
> I am sorry for overstepping my boundaries. "Ma'am" it is.


Considering the fact that I am not a woman, I would say this just thinly veiled disrespect that’s piggybacking off Southern hospitality. Regardless, you are being disrespectful towards me.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Well, there is SOME wall, but that's because Trump took funds earmarked for emergency response from the military to build it.  The irony of Republicans defunding the military for a vanity project is pretty damn tasty, IMO.


Republicans don't give a shit about our servicemen beyond how many can be sent into meatgrinders for Israel or the military industrial complex. At the end of the day it's all the same shit. Republicans will larp and posture about the "crisis at the border" but there isn't one, they just beat the fucking drum by doing publicity stunts like this trafficking shit just to get racists and fascists or fascist sympathizers to agree with them. Ghoul behavior.


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## Nothereed (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> They DID travel there by their own means, by their own free will.


Your stretching free by like 8 miles, if you think being mislead to hell and back is "free will"


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Well, partially there IS one but was never completed due to the biden administration shutting it down


GOOD. It literally would have taken at least three terms to even complete, and it would have wasted billions upon billions of tax payer dollars for something that literally doesn't even _work._


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Your stretching free by like 8 miles, if you think being mislead to hell and back is "free will"


He also said it was "by their own means."  Does he think the migrants own the bus they traveled on?  No, he just has nothing but bad faith arguments left in him.  Like still clinging to the lie that he's "not a Republican," despite arguing on their behalf for six straight pages (plus several other threads).  What a clown.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> GOOD. It literally would have taken at least three terms to even complete, and it would have wasted billions upon billions of tax payer dollars for something that literally doesn't even _work._


It seems like everyone in this thread is overheating, Make sure to cool down as hate and stress can overheat your prossesor, make sure you cool down. with a pepsi However, it seems like it could of worked or was a political stance by him to get even more support


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> It seems like everyone in this thread is overheating, Make sure to cool down as hate and stress can overheat your prossesor, make sure you cool down. with a pepsi However, it seems like it could of worked or was a political stance by him to get even more support


It doesn't work, because contrary to the myths of the right, most people in the country aren't here because they snuck over the border. The vast majority of "illegal" immigration is from people who come here on visas, and then just don't leave. Whether that's because they refuse to, or because they don't even know it's expired _(_a common issue as well_)_, that's up for sociologists to study. Here's some studies on the topic if you want more info.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...anging-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population/

The whole outrage over "illegal" immigration is wholly manufactured. These people still pay taxes, put in their labor, and so on and so forth. I say just fuckin' naturalize em all. They contribute more to the country than people mad about brown people do.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It doesn't work, because contrary to the myths of the right, most people in the country aren't here because they snuck over the border. The vast majority of "illegal" immigration is from people who come here on visas, and then just don't leave. Whether that's because they refuse to, or because they don't even know it's expired _(_a common issue as well_)_, that's up for sociologists to study. Here's some studies on the topic if you want more info.
> 
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...anging-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population/
> 
> The whole outrage over "illegal" immigration is wholly manufactured. These people still pay taxes, put in their labor, and so on and so forth. I say just fuckin' naturalize em all. They contribute more to the country than people mad about brown people do.


But weren't you complaining they were being paid below minimum wage? Many, many of the jobs are get paid in cash and never reported or taxed.

We also tried the naturalize them all approach before. But a country can't continue doing that every few years. The promised immigration reforms never appeared.

I also have to question that pew research article stating 10-11 million. Newer numbers are now saying it is likely closer to 20 million though there will never be a way to get a 100% accurate count. That means perhaps 6% of people living in the US are here illegally.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> But weren't you complaining they were being paid below minimum wage? Many, many of the jobs are get paid in cash and never reported or taxed.


Yes, that's why I also said in this thread that I supported open borders, and programs to promote immigration by making it even easier and giving benefits to doing so. This is not an objection to my post in any way.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Yes, that's why I also said in this thread that I supported open borders, and programs to promote immigration by making it even easier and giving benefits to doing so. This is not an objection to my post in any way.


But you argue they pay taxes, except they are taken advantage of and paid under the table so they don't pay taxes. So which is it? As a whole they benefit the communities they are in an pay taxes, or they aren't?


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> But you argue they pay taxes, except they are taken advantage of and paid under the table so they don't pay taxes. So which is it? As a whole they benefit the communities they are in an pay taxes, or they aren't?


https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/topics/tax-contributions
Go do some reading.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/topics/tax-contributions
> Go do some reading.


So you're going with pay taxes OK. Now let's do emergency rooms in hospitals filled with illegal migrants bringing their children rather for head colds and other minor things.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Your stretching free by like 8 miles, if you think being mislead to hell and back is "free will"


They could not be misled by anyone if they were not already here illegally. Let's go back to the start of the problem and place the blame where it's due. M'kay?


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> He also said it was "by their own means."  Does he think the migrants own the bus they traveled on?  No, he just has nothing but bad faith arguments left in him.  Like still clinging to the lie that he's "not a Republican," despite arguing on their behalf for six straight pages (plus several other threads).  What a clown.


Stop dodging the question, clown. 

You get a DUI while driving with your daughter. Are you going to cry about being separated from your family due to you choosing to participate in criminal activity while she was in your custody? 

Answer the question. 

There is a reason you are refuisng to answer. You know it and I know it.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> So you're going with pay taxes OK. Now let's do emergency rooms in hospitals filled with illegal migrants bringing their children rather for head colds and other minor things.


Do you have an actual objection to my post that is on topic or do you just wanna run through your dialog tree? Because one of these answers nets you a reply and the other gets you ignored for the remainder of the thread.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Do you have an actual objection to my post that is on topic or do you just wanna run through your dialog tree? Because one of these answers nets you a reply and the other gets you ignored for the remainder of the thread.


Yes, you claim they are benefiting the community by paying taxes. My argument is they are draining resources and use more resources they bring in.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It doesn't work, because contrary to the myths of the right, most people in the country aren't here because they snuck over the border. The vast majority of "illegal" immigration is from people who come here on visas, and then just don't leave. Whether that's because they refuse to, or because they don't even know it's expired _(_a common issue as well_)_, that's up for sociologists to study. Here's some studies on the topic if you want more info.
> 
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...anging-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population/
> 
> The whole outrage over "illegal" immigration is wholly manufactured. These people still pay taxes, put in their labor, and so on and so forth. I say just fuckin' naturalize em all. They contribute more to the country than people mad about brown people do.


Who is mad about brown people? 

Your Strawman is looking a bit tattered, there, sir. It's kind of worn out at this point. NO ONE has mentioned race, even once.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Yes, you claim they are benefiting the community by paying taxes. My argument is they are draining resources and use more resources they bring in.


 Prove it.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Considering the fact that I am not a woman, I would say this just thinly veiled disrespect that’s piggybacking off Southern hospitality. Regardless, you are being disrespectful towards me.


I am not being disrespectful, ma'am. I am being honest and truthful. You can take it how you will. Personally, I like when people are honest with me. 

With all of the disrespectful, and outright hateful things you have said to me, and you have the audacity to get mad that I used a proper term of respect towards you? 

It is to laugh.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Prove it.


I gave the example of hospitals. There's also the drain on school resources.

And the border in its current state also allow massive drug imports which strains health, and legal systems.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/p...-making-san-diego-national-epicenter-fentanyl


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I gave the example of hospitals. There's also the drain on school resources.


You gave anecdotes. Show me statistics. The only thing that matters in debates like this is data.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I am not being disrespectful, ma'am. I am being honest and truthful. You can take it how you will. Personally, I like when people are honest with me.
> 
> With all of the disrespectful, and outright hateful things you have said to me, and you have the audacity to get mad that I used a proper term of respect towards you?
> 
> It is to laugh.


So disrespecting someone’s identity because you think it’s the truth is being respectful to me? Nah,  that’s not respectful. I am not a woman, saying I am one is disrespecting who I am. If you don’t find that disrespectful, then please eat fucking shit. You don’t deserve respect and I hope one day the staff smartens up and bans your ass.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Prove it.


There’s actually not a lot of resources in regards to total net cost/benefit of illegal immigration. A brief Google-fu session only revealed a handful of studies, all of which were quite outdated. The two big ones (significant enough to be analysed by GAO) were conducted by D. L. Huddle in 1992 (updated 1993) and the Urban Institute (in response to Huddle’s work). The end results showed a cost between $1.8 billion (UI estimate) to $19.3 billion (Huddle’s high end estimate) annually, but we’re talking about the 1993 dollar. If we take the lower end figure and adjust it for inflation (cumulative rate of 105%), you end up with a figure of $3.69 billion at minimum, all else being equal. Sadly, not all else is equal as the safety net and the associated costs have expanded greatly in the last 30 years, so the cost is probably higher than that (just ACA alone would be a huge contributor towards the net cost). To get a true net cost/benefit, a similar study would have to be conducted in a contemporary setting, but you wanted to see numbers, so there.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/hehs-95-133.pdf

It is *extremely* hard to argue that illegal immigration is beneficial to the taxpayer. If anything, it is beneficial to business owners as it provides an exceedingly cheap labour force. It *might* be beneficial to the Social Security fund as illegal workers often times supply false Social Security numbers, thus “contributing” to the fund with no ability to draw out of it later down the line, but even that’s not a rule and it’d have to be investigated to determine the net benefit.

EDIT: If you happen to find a more recent and comprehensive study of similar nature, post it by all means. As I said, this data is 30 years old and doesn’t account for any of the socio-economic and legal changes that took place since.


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## x65943 (Sep 29, 2022)

This thread is entirely off topic at this point


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## DinohScene (Sep 29, 2022)

x65943 said:


> This thread is entirely off topic at this point



Agreed.
Locked.


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