# Nintendo: Where Do We Point the Finger of Blame?



## Ryukouki (Feb 1, 2014)

​A few days ago, it was announced that due to dismal sales of the Wii U Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata would take a 50% pay cut. It is not exactly news here or anywhere that the Wii U is not a good seller. Poor advertising and a lack of third-party support add together and create a recipe for poor sales. Adding salt in the wound, even downloadable content is being pulled off the shelves. At this point in time, is it time to start looking at better alternatives for the gaming giant, and would it be time to maybe even look at calling quits for Satoru Iwata? Or better yet, is Iwata himself not the entire problem?​​[prebreak]Continue reading[/prebreak]​​Looking back, Iwata helmed the company since 2002. He's ushered in many a generation; the Gamecube, the Wii, the DS era, and the Wii U. Lately though, Nintendo has been losing money and reporting losses over the past several years. It was mentioned from Iwata himself that an endeavor like the Gamecube flopped because of a lack of good software to drive the console. Yet, at this point, it appears to be more of the same. The 3DS, which is a wonderful system on its own, received a rather poor support platform in the West, especially considering the online infrastructure and SpotPass/Streetpass. These features may work well in other nations, but for us here in the West, we can barely scrounge hits on our consoles, making this feature rather dull. Others may disagree with me, but it really depends on location, location, location. Comparing a quote he gave several years back,​​

> “When we launched GameCube, the initial sales were good, and all the hardware we manufactured at that time were sold through. However, after this period, we could not provide the market with strong software titles in a timely fashion. As a result we could not leverage the initial launch time momentum, and sales of GameCube slowed down. To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch.” says Iwata. He then says,”We believe it is important to provide the market with strong software without a long interval in order to keep the launch time momentum.”


​and looking at the slump that Nintendo has been enduring the past several years, it feels like he has learned nothing. The very issue he spoke about is the same thing that is plaguing his company. A lack of software titles is hurting not only the investors, but the consumers as well, who are looking more to the smartphones and other consoles. As of a few days ago, a new statement was released, citing that Nintendo may be open to start working with smartphones. Do not get me wrong, I love myself some Nintendo products, and while I hope that they will come out with some revolutionary product, the way things are heading, I just do not see what they can do to turn it around. Their archaic ways of thinking, such as not utilizing the online infrastructure, irks me. At this point, the internet is so crucial to our everyday lives it is almost an essential. Sticking only to local play is holding them back. Their recent games are uninspiring and lackadaisical. Most titles, while great as standalone titles, are rather banal in comparison to earlier titles that the giant used to produce.​​At this point, I would like to think that new leadership is needed. I feel that Iwata's great firework has long since died. He seems like a wonderful fellow, do not get me wrong. I admire the fact that he seems rather interested still, and is willing to step up and take responsibility, but the fact that these issues are occurring repeatedly is too much of a problem to simply ignore at this point. His ability to market is rather weak, and I do believe that at this point, Nintendo will need a fresh set of eyes to guide them forward in an era of superior technology.​​Do I believe that Iwata himself should be completely removed from the company? No. I think that Iwata should be moved into an area where he can actually make a positive contribution, something like development. His Nintendo Directs and interviews (Iwata Asks) shows initiative to work with developers and interest in the wants of his fans. Looking forward, should the blame be entirely pinned on Iwata himself though?​​Iwata should not be held solely responsible. His major weakness is a lack of understanding in his market and it is hitting both his investors and his pocketbook. But who is to blame in such an instance? A little side story, I had this interesting theory all cooked up to talk about, yet a quick Google search yielded that someone had thought up a similar, if not identical theory, and only several days ago. Definitely put a bit of a dampener in the plans, but for the sake of everyone, and due to its relevance I think I should put it here. What would happen if I had decided to pin the blame not on Iwata, but on Shigeru Miyamoto himself?​​Targeting Miyamoto?​Okay, now you guys are probably going to either stop here and declare me legally insane. I do not blame you guys at all. To question Miyamoto is definitely interesting; he being a veteran developer, having ushered in some of the most profitable franchises in the history of modern video gaming, being a factor in the recent tumbles that Nintendo has suffered?​​The way I look at it, it is _because _of his legendary franchises that Nintendo is suffering. As far as the article I just linked, I basically agree with almost all the details presented. The legendary franchises (_Zelda, Mario) _are all the brainchild of Miyamoto. It could be indirectly said that Nintendo's successes are due to Miyamoto's ideas. When we look at games that drove home the Wii, we see games like _Wii Sports_. We see games like _Tetris_. Or _Donkey Kong_. We see games that are inconceivably popular that drive home sales. When we compare the sales of Wii U and 3DS to that of the DS and Wii, we see an explosive difference. Looking around in 2013, we do not see any new IP's coming out of Nintendo. We see the story of Nintendo developers using Miyamoto's baseline work and marking new games in his legendary franchises. There are more inundations of Mario, more inundations of the same old concept redone in a slightly shinier packing. At this point it is like polishing garbage. It might smell less stinky, but it is still the same thing at the end of the day. We as gamers do not see these developers taking off their training wheels and moving on their own, creating their own new franchises. When I look at this, I go back to the Eurogamer article and I agree very much with this criticism that they have made:​​

> Yet right now, creatively, Nintendo the game developer is in a rut. This is nuts, you might be thinking. Didn't you just give Super Mario 3D World 10/10 and anoint it your game of 2013? What about the incredible... run... of... quality... titles on 3DS over the last 12 months? Nintendo still makes great games! Of course it does. In fact, Nintendo's commitment to quality in its games is so impressive, across so prolific an output, that it all but obscures its creative malaise. Artwork is never less than polished and charming. Design is refined and inventive. Engineering is excellent, too - something the company doesn't often get credit for, since its priorities are different from those at the bleeding edge of games technology, but over on Digital Foundry's YouTube there's an unwavering green line next to the number 60 which argues that 3D World was one of the best-engineered games of last year. Review scores are buoyant (and I freely admit that we critics, trained so effectively to love Nintendo and judge it by its own high standards - many of us since childhood - are part of this problem) -Eurogamer.


 


 
Nintendo is definitely in a figurative hole and they need to get themselves out and fast. I look at this title and see it as a perfect example of developmental crisis that is happening: _The Legend of Zelda: Hyrule Warriors. _You have a franchise, _The Legend of Zelda_, one of the biggest franchises around, and you combine it with a game that has plenty of iterations over the past decade, _Dynasty Warriors. _The title, while I love both franchises, seems so unoriginal, and very unlike what Nintendo used to do. By chaining themselves and slaving away to the masterpieces that Miyamoto has ushered in, for Nintendo, creative development has essentially stopped.

To end all of this, reviewing this giant text block that I have typed out, we look at Iwata, and his decisions over the past several years. Are the results finally justifiable for investors to scream for his head? Is it okay to look at Shigeru Miyamoto himself as a possible factor in the recent mess that Nintendo has found themselves in? Is it the fact that Nintendo is not embracing the online culture? Has the creativity from Nintendo been stopped? Seriously though, Nintendo, we all love you, but we want to see you kicking ass and taking names, not getting your ass kicked and having your name be trashed. Let's discuss the finer points of Nintendo here!
​


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## Snailface (Feb 1, 2014)

I place my faith in Nintendo in Mr. Iwata's hands.

(Psst. Mr. Iwata, please set the bananas down so you can hold my faith)


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 1, 2014)

I believe the only cause for this, is really that "Nintendo Stubbornness" regarding many aspects:

- The lack of third party titles on the Wii U

- The constant and somewhat puzzling refusal for Nintendo to embrace the social media, for instance, Youtube videos of their products.

- The struggle to forcefully trying to sell Nintendo hardware, instead of jumping on the Android / IOS / PC wagon, and focus on the software.

- The inability to produce fresh and innovative titles, relying ever more on already overdone / overused concepts and series, such as Mario, Zelda and so on.

- The lack of good Online competitive / coop games, even for their own titles, and somewhat faulty / not so fresh Internet platforms, menus and online stores.

Those are just some issues that come to mind, which I believe have had their toll on the Nintendo name, over the years.

Really, it sounds like he is trying to have the same approach as he did with the Wii. The problem is, times have changed. 2005 was almost a decade ago.

There's tablets, smartphones, new audience, financial crisis now. In short, its a whole new world.

I seriously think, Nintendo needs to rethink their approach on the public and stop being so stubborn for once.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

I think it kind of undermines the credibility of your commentary when you liken releasing sequels in successful franchises to "polishing turds".  These are still some of the best games of the year.

If you want to be a critic in an industry where novelty is the driving force, then you should get into modern art, because it is all about doing modern and shocking things.  Popular art, by contrast, like movies and video games, are all about making money, and the safest way to make money is to release sequels in successful franchises.  

I agree that part of the problem is that the Nintendo development teams and subsidiaries just are not big enough to put out entries in every major franchise (they have built up so many over the years, things like Mario Kart and Smash Brothers) and also develop innovative, risky new games.  They need to figure out how to fix that.  But, at the same time, they are in an industry where they live and die by the whims of the consumers, and they need the money from the franchises they know are likely to sell.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I think it kind of undermines the credibility of your commentary when you liken releasing sequels in successful franchises to "polishing turds". These are still some of the best games of the year.
> 
> If you want to be a critic in an industry where novelty is the driving force, then you should get into modern art, because it is all about doing modern and shocking things. Popular art, by contrast, like movies and video games, are all about making money, and the safest way to make money is to release sequels in successful franchises.
> 
> I agree that part of the problem is that the Nintendo development teams and subsidiaries just are not big enough to put out entries in every major franchise (they have built up so many over the years, things like Mario Kart and Smash Brothers) and also develop innovative, risky new games. They need to figure out how to fix that. But, at the same time, they are in an industry where they live and die by the whims of the consumers, and they need the money from the franchises they know are likely to sell.


 

I actually was not thinking in the lines of "sequels," actually. When I was writing I was thinking more about the franchise as a whole. I should maybe elaborate on that point in the article at a later time. I don't doubt that these games are the best of the year _individually_, I find a lot of them to be great as standalone titles. Look at _Pokemon X and Y_. It sells like hotcakes, but some people have criticized it for its distasteful story, being more of the same. For me, when I see sequels, I see things like _New Super Mario Bros. U, _which may be the "best game" but falls short of previous titles due to lack of creativity. Looking at your post and where I mentioned that, it definitely was a bit broad of me to say so. For me, I want to see more creative franchises. I want to see Nintendo get out of the stone age and maybe move forward with some of their franchises and/or create new ones. When I look at Mario, I find that development for the series has essentially "capped" at the New Super Mario Bros. DS game, barring Galaxy. Sure, the titles could be innovative, they could have unique features that utilize the potential of the console or whatnot, but at the root (and more to where I was heading at) it's more of the same and it feels like it just isn't going anywhere. I look at Galaxy and I see steps forward. You get orchestrated music, a more immersive environment, etc. Compare it to the successive sequels and it's still got the same short levels/structure, the same stuff going on.


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## stephaniie (Feb 1, 2014)

nope miss sex symbol . 

most titles on xboom n playstation hasnt survived the console eras . and never three consols eras . 

nintendo stand n fall of series that have been active for five eras in total ... thats not good .


edit: and if you wanna scream resident evil or tony hawk pro skater, or final fantasy.. these are titles that is dying, cause youth surpasses seniors always


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## FireGrey (Feb 1, 2014)

I think they need to be targeting towards parents, not kids.
That's what happened at the start of the Wii, but didn't really realize to much extent so didn't continue with it.


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## XDel (Feb 1, 2014)

So many people taking an interest in Nintendo that don't sound pleased with their Nintendo, or never intended to buy one in the first place. 
 One thing is for sure, Nintendo doesn't have to market them selves, like Miley Cirus, (spelling? who cares?) like her or hate her, the people generate her hype for her.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I actually was not thinking in the lines of "sequels," actually. When I was writing I was thinking more about the franchise as a whole. I should maybe elaborate on that point in the article at a later time. I don't doubt that these games are the best of the year _individually_, I find a lot of them to be great as standalone titles. Look at _Pokemon X and Y_. It sells like hotcakes, but some people have criticized it for its distasteful story, being more of the same. For me, when I see sequels, I see things like _New Super Mario Bros. U, _which may be the "best game" but falls short of previous titles due to lack of creativity. Looking at your post and where I mentioned that, it definitely was a bit broad of me to say so. For me, I want to see more creative franchises. I want to see Nintendo get out of the stone age and maybe move forward with some of their franchises and/or create new ones. When I look at Mario, I find that development for the series has essentially "capped" at the New Super Mario Bros. DS game, barring Galaxy. Sure, the titles could be innovative, they could have unique features that utilize the potential of the console or whatnot, but at the root (and more to where I was heading at) it's more of the same and it feels like it just isn't going anywhere. I look at Galaxy and I see steps forward. You get orchestrated music, a more immersive environment, etc. Compare it to the successive sequels and it's still got the same short levels/structure, the same stuff going on.


 

I don't think it is really that bad.  For instance, Nintendo is much more likely to make an original game for their handheld than their competitors.  The New Super Mario Bros Wii U is different than the New Super Mario Bros 3DS.  I think people expect these titles to be on each Nintendo console these days, and Nintendo does not really milk them.  It is one title per console and they don't usually do ports of games to their handhelds these days unless they are classic games like Starfox 64.  

In any case, it is like classical music.  You need enough new stuff to keep it interesting but to be repetitive enough that it feels structured.  Nintendo is pretty good at that.  By contrast, some developers (especially indies who are not working with large budgets of big publishers) are like jazz musicians.  They play whatever they feel and whereever the music takes them.  Sometimes that is to familiar places, and sometimes it is indistinguishable from random noise.  And, then you have your popular musicians: the Call of Duty, Battlefield, et cetera.  These are the same catchy riffs played over and over again.  There are only about 20 bars to the whole song that are repeated ad nauseum.  The only thing that changes are the lyrics.  

I do agree with you that part of Nintendo's problem is that it is just too successful.  It cannot keep giving people all the popular franchises it wants while also giving people the innovative new games they desire.  But, for the company to move forward, it needs to figure out how to do both.


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## DiscostewSM (Feb 1, 2014)

I think the current situation is enough of a wake-up call for Nintendo that they are going to be more aggressive from here on out. Even with all the money they currently have to stay in the business for years to come, they need to take action, entice the population again, and bring back the companies that left them for dead.


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## SickPuppy (Feb 1, 2014)

Nintendo made a mistake with the Wii U, it aint going to be fixed until the next generation, and that's if the big "N" can get their sh*t together. Nintendo needs to make a console that competes with their competition. The casual gamers aren't buying the Wii U, and it looks like there isn't enough Nintendo fanboys to keep the company afloat. Hardcore gamers have been flocked to the playstation and xbox consoles since their release. If Nintendo wants to survive then they need to make the NIntendo console the goto console for gaming, f*ck youtube, social media, smartphones and all that other crap, I want a console to game on, once that is good then they can implement the other useless social crap.


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## stephaniie (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I don't think it is really that bad.  For instance, Nintendo is much more likely to make an original game for their handheld than their competitors.  The New Super Mario Bros Wii U is different than the New Super Mario Bros 3DS.  I think people expect these titles to be on each Nintendo console these days, and Nintendo does not really milk them.  It is one title per console and they don't usually do ports of games to their handhelds these days unless they are classic games like Starfox 64.
> 
> In any case, it is like classical music.  You need enough new stuff to keep it interesting but to be repetitive enough that it feels structured.  Nintendo is pretty good at that.  By contrast, some developers (especially indies who are not working with large budgets of big publishers) are like jazz musicians.  They play whatever they feel and whereever the music takes them.  Sometimes that is to familiar places, and sometimes it is indistinguishable from random noise.  And, then you have your popular musicians: the Call of Duty, Battlefield, et cetera.  These are the same catchy riffs played over and over again.  There are only about 20 bars to the whole song that are repeated ad nauseum.  The only thing that changes are the lyrics.
> 
> I do agree with you that part of Nintendo's problem is that it is just too successful.  It cannot keep giving people all the popular franchises it wants while also giving people the innovative new games they desire.  But, for the company to move forward, it needs to figure out how to do both.


can you mention 20 popular titles for the Wii U or Wii?


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

SickPuppy said:


> Nintendo made a mistake with the Wii U, it aint going to be fixed until the next generation, and that's if the big "N" can get their sh*t together. Nintendo needs to make a console that competes with their competition. The casual gamers aren't buying the Wii U, and it looks like there isn't enough Nintendo fanboys to keep the company afloat. Hardcore gamers have been flocked to the playstation and xbox consoles since their release. If Nintendo wants to survive then they need to make the NIntendo console the goto console for gaming, f*ck youtube, social media, smartphones and all that other crap, I want a console to game on, once that is good then they can implement the other useless social crap.


 
The whole, "the Wii U is not selling well because its GPU is 2 times slower than the Xbox 1 and 5 times slower than the PS4" argument does not hold water.

It has been a long time since the days where processing power alone was the biggest factor in gaming innovation.   We are on the linear side of a geometric distribution for the ratio of gameplay improvements : computational power.  

You also have to go back to the SNES days to see a computationally superior system that outsold its rivals.  Every single other example, going back to the NES versus the Sega Master System, shows that the best computer did not win the most consumers.

Nintendo made a lot of mistakes with the Wii U.  Some of them they can fix right now.  Others, they are going to have to put on the shelf for another five years or so and  incorporate them into the next console.


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## Pablitox (Feb 1, 2014)

Adding salt to the wound, it doesn't help the nintendo 3DS and Wiiu, and fuck, all the consoles who aren't sega are so DAMN expensive here, you'd need to be rich to just afford one of them. I live in argentina, but this usually happens in every country in Latin America.

For example: a nintendo 3ds is roughly u$s 500 here, not to mention the games, who are roughly u$s 63.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

stephaniie said:


> can you mention 20 popular titles for the Wii U or Wii?


 

It depends what yo mean by popular. Five Wii U titles have sold over 1 million units, and they are all Nintendo exclusives.

If you mean "popular" as in well received by consumers and critics, they are nearing 50 titles rated 75 or better on meta-critic.

These are the top 20 Wii U titles out now, not in terms of popularity, but in terms of quality:


Super Mario 3D World
Metacritic Score: 93
User: 8.9
Nov 22, 2013

Rayman Legends
Metacritic Score: 92
User: 8.6
Sep 3, 2013

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD
Metacritic Score: 90
User: 8.8
Sep 20, 2013

Skylanders Swap Force
Metacritic Score: 89
User: 5.7
Oct 13, 2013

Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut
Metacritic Score: 88
User: 8.3
Oct 22, 2013

Pikmin 3
Metacritic Score: 87
User: 8.6
Aug 4, 2013

Need for Speed: Most Wanted U
Metacritic Score: 86
User: 7.1
Kinect Compatible
Mar 19, 2013

Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Metacritic Score: 86
User: 7.5
Oct 29, 2013

Mass Effect 3: Special Edition
Metacritic Score: 85
User: 7.1
Kinect Compatible
Nov 13, 2012

Assassin's Creed III
Metacritic Score: 85
User: 7.1
Nov 18, 2012

NBA 2K13
Metacritic Score: 85
User: 7.2
Nov 18, 2012

Darksiders II
Metacritic Score: 85
User: 8.0
Nov 18, 2012

Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition
Metacritic Score: 85
User: 8.1
Nov 18, 2012

Trine 2: Director's Cut
Metacritic Score: 84
User: 8.0
Nov 18, 2012

Mutant Mudds Deluxe
Metacritic Score: 84
User: 6.6
Jun 13, 2013

Bit.Trip Presents...Runner2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien
Metacritic Score: 84
User: 7.9
Feb 26, 2013

New Super Mario Bros. U
Metacritic Score: 84
User: 8.0
Nov 18, 2012

Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition
Metacritic Score: 83
User: 7.6
Nov 18, 2012

Star Wars Pinball
Metacritic Score: 83
User: 7.2
Jul 11, 2013

LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
Metacritic Score: 82
User: 8.4
Oct 22, 201

And these are the best-selling (most popular) Wii U titles

1. New Super Mario Bros. U 2012 Action Nintendo
3.58 million units sold worldwide

2. Nintendo Land 2012 Action Nintendo
2.79 million units sold worldwide

3. Super Mario 3D World 2013 Platform Nintendo
1.70 million units sold worldwide

4. New Super Luigi U 2013 Platform Nintendo
1.24 million units sold worldwide

5. Wii Party U 2013 Action Nintendo
1.03 million units sold worldwide

6. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 2013 Action Nintendo
0.81 million units sold worldwide

7. Pikmin 3 2013 Strategy Nintendo
0.70 million units sold worldwide

8. Lego City Undercover 2013 Action Nintendo
0.69 million units sold worldwide

9. ZombiU 2012 Action Ubisoft
0.63 million units sold worldwide

10. Monster Hunter Tri 2012 Role-Playing Nintendo
0.47 million units sold worldwide

11. Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing Transformed 2012 Action Sega
0.30 million units sold worldwide

12. Disney Infinity 2013 Action Disney Interactive Studios
0.29 million units sold worldwide

13. Rayman Legends 2013 Platform Ubisoft
0.27 million units sold worldwide

14. Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games 2013 Sports Nintendo
0.25 million units sold worldwide

15. Just Dance 2014 2013 Misc Ubisoft
0.25 million units sold worldwide

16. Just Dance 4 2012 Misc Ubisoft
0.23 million units sold worldwide

17. Skylanders SWAP Force 2013 Platform Activision
0.23 million units sold worldwide

18. Assassin's Creed III 2012 Action Ubisoft
0.23 million units sold worldwide

19. Call of Duty: Black Ops II 2012 Shooter Activision
0.23 million units sold worldwide

20. Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2013 Action Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment
0.21 million units sold worldwide


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## Hanafuda (Feb 1, 2014)

There is a cancer. It must be cut out.

















As I said in another comment a few days ago ... this shit is gamer repellent. Casual gamers flocked to the Wii for the social party fun, but they got their fix. Their Wii's still work. They don't need another game system, because they're casual gamers. Meanwhile, people who want games with challenge and depth are repulsed by this tsunami of fun in short frantic doses. They know Nintendo will still pump out some of the best games, but they have to weigh that against the entry cost for the console, and the inevitable wait between good releases. 

.


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## KazoWAR (Feb 1, 2014)

the same thing happen a few years back with the struggling 3ds, give it a year or 2 and wiiu will be doing good.

http://www.1up.com/news/iwata-salary-cut-half-3ds-price-drop-explained


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## Costello (Feb 1, 2014)

What Hanafuda said. That's the thing with casual gamers I think... Nintendo targeted them with the Wii, and it worked. Lots of people got one.
But they are casuals... definitely not the kind of person that readily spends hundreds just for renewing their gig, especially when the new gig doesn't do much more than the previous one, and that the old one still works.
I'm not too surprised that the Wii U hasn't been so much of a success like the Wii was back in the day.
The 3DS sells but I think the "3D effect" craze has died down a bit, hasn't it? not exactly a selling point anymore...


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2014)

I can't remember the name, but there was a Eurogamer article recently about a developer's experience working on the Wii U game. There's one anecdote where the guy was told point blank not to reference Xbox Live, PSN, Steam, etc. because none of Nintendo's engineers had any personal experience with the competitions' services.

That attitude, the belief that you don't need to worry about the other guys, that you have nothing to learn from them, is more damaging than any one person.

Sony had that same exact attitude going into the last generation, and... well, look at the PS3's early life to see how that went for them. Sony managed to wise up in time to turn the PS3 around. It's doubtful that the Wii U will have the same sort of luck, but I can only hope it serves as a serious wake up call.



XDel said:


> So many people taking an interest in Nintendo that don't sound pleased with their Nintendo, or never intended to buy one in the first place.
> One thing is for sure, Nintendo doesn't have to market them selves, like Miley Cirus, (spelling? who cares?) like her or hate her, the people generate her hype for her.


 

Hype is meaningless without sales. You could have the most hyped console in history, but if nobody buys it, you've still failed.

Also, when it comes to the Wii U, all of the popular stories are either "Wait, you mean it _isn't_ a controller?" or "Wii U sinking harder than the Lusitania!" I don't think I'd call that hype.


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## SickPuppy (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> The whole, "the Wii U is not selling well because its GPU is 2 times slower than the Xbox 1 and 5 times slower than the PS4" argument does not hold water.
> 
> It has been a long time since the days where processing power alone was the biggest factor in gaming innovation.   We are on the linear side of a geometric distribution for the ratio of gameplay improvements : computational power.
> 
> You also have to go back to the SNES days to see a computationally superior system that outsold its rivals.



It does matter when the future games that are going to be released for those other systems are going to need to be dumbed down to run on the Wii U. It's going to be the Wii all over, you remember all the crappy ports the Wii got because of it's weaker hardware, the same thing will happen with the Wii U. In my opinion, Nintendo don't stand a chance unless they release a console that matches one of their rival's consoles, if not both of them, hardware wise. 

Look at it this way, if you were going to buy a gaming computer, which would offer you the best experience, the high end computer or the low end computer? Well, the same can be said for gaming consoles too, if you were going to buy a gaming console, which would offer you the best experience, the high end console or the low end console? Most of the true gamers out there don't want sub-par hardware to game on.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

SickPuppy said:


> It does matter when the future games that are going to be released for those other systems are going to need to be dumbed down to run on the Wii U. It's going to be the Wii all over, you remember all the crappy ports the Wii got because of it's weaker hardware, the same thing will happen with the Wii U. In my opinion, Nintendo don't stand a chance unless they release a console that matches one of their rival's consoles, if not both of them, hardware wise.
> 
> Look at it this way, if you were going to buy a gaming computer, which would offer you the best experience, the high end computer or the low end computer? Well, the same can be said for gaming consoles too, if you were going to buy a gaming console, which would offer you the best experience, the high end console or the low end console? Most of the true gamers out there don't want sub-par hardware to game on.


 

Actually, the Wii U is strong enough computationally that ports should not suffer that much if developers take the time to do them correctly. The Wii U CPU is, in single threaded performance, in the same ballpark (perhaps even faster) than the Jaguar CPUs. The difference in GPU speeds between the Xbox 1 and Wii U is similar to the difference in speed between the Xbox 1 and PS4.

By contrast mean, the Xbox 360 GPU was putting out something like >10 times the single preceision FLOPS as the Wii. That was a dramatic difference, plus it had a much faster, multicore processor. Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 were poorly engineered attempts to fit as much raw power in a small case as possible, resulting in a thermally disastrous design.

After learning from their mistakes, Sony and Microsoft designed the Xbox 1 and PS4 more like the Wii, with a thermally efficient, low power design. They are not making the kind of power leaps that they did in the last generation. The Wii GPU is noticeably slower, but not dramatically slow. Between the Wii U and the PS4 there is about a (5 x) difference in GPU single precision FLOPS. Between the PS4 and a high end PC GPU set, within a few years (when developers really start taking advantage of the new consoles' specs) there is going to be a 50-100 fold difference.

Most of the actual improvements will be in the software. Ports to PC's that are 100 times as fast as the PS4 will not look 100 times better. They will look more similar than different. Same with ports to the Wii U. You'll be able to notice the difference, especially between a PC port running in 4K and a Wii U port, but it will not likely be that dramatic if developers do their jobs right. It will be nothing like hte awful Call of Duty ports for the Wii.


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## UltraMew (Feb 1, 2014)

Point the blame at that banana Iwata is holding.


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## XDel (Feb 1, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I can't remember the name, but there was a Eurogamer article recently about a developer's experience working on the Wii U game. There's one anecdote where the guy was told point blank not to reference Xbox Live, PSN, Steam, etc. because none of Nintendo's engineers had any personal experience with the competitions' services.
> 
> That attitude, the belief that you don't need to worry about the other guys, that you have nothing to learn from them, is more damaging than any one person.
> 
> ...


 
Very true, but buzz leads to curiosity and sometimes that curiosity leads one to paying more attention to something, getting enticed, and then consuming. 

 I dunno, despite their damned sweat shop factory policies, I really do have a soft spot in my heart for Nintendo and their whole angle on pretty much everything. I dunno, I don't follow modern gaming trends, so I guess I've nothing to be let down about, I just like experiencing what ever it is Nintendo is going to do next. Alas, something I'm not cynical about!!!!


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## SickPuppy (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> Actually, the Wii U is strong enough computationally that ports should not suffer that much if developers take the time to do them correctly. The Wii U CPU is, in single threaded performance, in the same ballpark (perhaps even faster) than the Jaguar CPUs. The difference in GPU speeds between the Xbox 1 and Wii U is similar to the difference in speed between the Xbox 1 and PS4.
> 
> By contrast mean, the Xbox 360 GPU was putting out something like >10 times the single preceision FLOPS as the Wii. That was a dramatic difference, plus it had a much faster, multicore processor. Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 were poorly engineered attempts to fit as much raw power in a small case as possible, resulting in a thermally disastrous design.
> 
> ...



Hey, Activision did wonders to get the call of duty titles working on the Wii. It's too bad none of the rest of the third party devs did work like that. The thing is, Nintendo is known for not producing the strongest console, and that's why it's not selling well. Even if the Wii U is  just a little weaker that the xbone, then that's reason enough for the xbox kids not to get a nintendo console. With out a userbase, Nintendo will suffer. One way to improve the userbase, build the best console of the generation. The NES was a perfect example of that. My first console was a magnovox odyssey2, so I've been around for almost all of the gaming consoles. Nintendo needs to stop it with the gimmicks, and build a straight forward gaming machine that out performs the competition. The gamepad shouldn't be the selling point of the Wii U, it should be treated like like an add on.

It also seems that Nintendo has done enough to piss off some of the third party game devs, they need to fix that too. Nintendo needs that third party support, and getting that back would help them out alot.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

SickPuppy said:


> Hey, Activision did wonders to get the call of duty titles working on the Wii. It's too bad none of the rest of the third party devs did work like that. The thing is, Nintendo is known for not producing the strongest console, and that's why it's not selling well. Even if the Wii U is just a little weaker that the xbone, then that's reason enough for the xbox kids not to get a nintendo console. With out a userbase, Nintendo will suffer. One way to improve the userbase, build the best console of the generation. The NES was a perfect example of that. My first console was a magnovox odyssey2, so I've been around for almost all of the gaming consoles. Nintendo needs to stop it with the gimmicks, and build a straight forward gaming machine that out performs the competition. The gamepad shouldn't be the selling point of the Wii U, it should be treated like like an add on.
> 
> It also seems that Nintendo has done enough to piss off some of the third party game devs, they need to fix that too. Nintendo needs that third party support, and getting that back would help them out alot.


 

Again, that reasoning does not make sense to me.  The PS2 was the slowest console of its generation (besides the defunct Dreamcast), but it sold more than double the much more powerful Gamecube and Xbox combined.  The Wii was dramatically under-powered compared to the poorly engineered and overpowered competition (which led to huge overheating problems), but it quickly outsold them.  The Vita and PSP were greatly outclassed by the 3DS and DS.

If you look at what made the NES so great, it wasn't the power.  The Sega Master System was noticeably better.  Nintendo just had really good policies to promote quality software, and they made some great first party titles for the NES like the Super Mario series, Zelda, Metroid, et cetera.  

And, the Xbox kids are already buying a console with an under-powered GPU compared to PS4.  I don't think they would have flocked to the Wii U if it had a 2 TFLOPS GPU.  I think Nintendo made a number of mistakes with the Wii U, but in and of itself, being less powerful than the competition was not one of them.


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## assassinz (Feb 1, 2014)

Nintendo just needs to stop using Mario and Zelda, etc. as safety nets. They need to develop new characters and new gaming worlds and environments that they havent used before. Just mention any of these Nintendo franchises and you pretty much already can tell how the next installment of the game is going to look, play, and sound regardless of any new storyline. 

And 3rd party developers just releasing WiiU  versions of games from PS3 & 360 isnt helping either. 

Nintendo had better let their game programmers and developers have more input and freedom to develop some new games/franchises instead of making them develop more games with Mario and the gang. The 16-Bit era was the best because we had more genres of game types to play. Nowadays it seems its either a Mario game, Zelda game, Pokemon, FPS, some zombie type game or Superhero title, and sports games that are major releases.

Kid Icarus Uprising was their freshest gaming idea in a long time.

Right now none of the next gen consoles have enough variety to offer gamers. I think Microsoft and Sony will be having their own "Iwata" moment later on.


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## SickPuppy (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> Again, that reasoning does not make sense to me.  The PS2 was the slowest console of its generation (besides the defunct Dreamcast), but it sold more than double the much more powerful Gamecube and Xbox combined.  The Wii was dramatically under-powered compared to the poorly engineered and overpowered competition (which led to huge overheating problems), but it quickly outsold them.  The Vita and PSP were greatly outclassed by the 3DS and DS.
> 
> If you look at what made the NES so great, it wasn't the power.  The Sega Master System was noticeably better.  Nintendo just had really good policies to promote quality software, and they made some great first party titles for the NES like the Super Mario series, Zelda, Metroid, et cetera.
> 
> And, the Xbox kids are already buying a console with an under-powered GPU compared to PS4.  I don't think they would have flocked to the Wii U if it had a 2 TFLOPS GPU.  I think Nintendo made a number of mistakes with the Wii U, but in and of itself, being less powerful than the competition was not one of them.



We could keep going on forever, I think it comes down to Nintedno loosing their userbase over the years. Nintendo has been behind the other consoles since the N64 due to their slow adaption of new technology, hardware and software wise.


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## JPhantom (Feb 1, 2014)

quite frankly traditionally nintendo has lived off their first party and their exclusive games.  very rarely has a game been released on a nintendo system and a competitor's system where the nintendo version was as good as the other.  They also rely on their gimmicks to make a lot of things work for their console that cannot possibly work for the competition.  I think Nintendo will occasionally hit duds with their gimmicks it happens it was unfortunate they hit it with both there console and handheld.  nintendo should not have tried to focus on the casual gamer to the extent that they did with the wii u as the wii still satisfies them.  however i don't think that nintendo needed to meet the competition on specs as that is not where they shine.  there is no need for specs for them to create simple yet challenging gameplay and interesting storylines.  i really think they don't need to focus on being able to play mass effect 3 as well as the others cause i don't think nintendo can really make those games uniquely their's and tat is where nintendo thrives. on making games that are unique.  they'd probably be faring better if they refused to allow any multi platform games because nintendo needs games that were written for their systems to really differentiate themselves


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> *they need the money from the franchises they know are likely to sell.*


 
Those franchises that apparently sell so well, haven't been nearly enough to keep the Wii U from flopping.

It's overused. It has been done and redone. They may make money. But they won't make money off the same snake oil forever.

The proof is this topic itself.

Nintendo either gets with the times, or will continue to dig it's own grave.

And apparently, Nintendo is not that stupid after all. It took a major system flop for them to start doing it, but finally, they are: http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo...game-development-studios.361489/#post-4906030


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Those franchises that apparently sell so well, haven't been nearly enough to keep the Wii U from flopping.
> 
> It's overused. It has been done and redone. They may make money. But they won't make money off the same snake oil forever.
> 
> ...


 
Nintendo is first and foremost a software development company.  A game like the 2-D and 3-D Mario platformers is going to sell very well and net them a tidy profit for their investment.  Some of these games, like the side-scrolling Mario platformers, have been making money for thirty years and are still very profitable.  Of course, they cannot make money off them forever; nothing lasts forever.  The earth is not going to be around forever, but based on current evidence, they will make money off them for a very long time.

And calling it "snake oil" is libelous.  Nintendo is not being deceitful in their sales practice.  You don't buy a Mario or a Zelda game and find out halfway through you have to buy $100 of DLC to finish it.  


The hardware side of things is a whole other issue.  They have made a lot of mistakes with the Wii U console, but making new entries in some of the best selling video game franchises in history is not one of them.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 1, 2014)

Sure they can make money off of the same old 2-D/3-D Mario platformers, but at the end of the day, they're losing their audience and losing it fast. They're trying too hard to cater to the children and forgetting the gamers that have long since grown up.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2014)

Costello said:


> What Hanafuda said. That's the thing with casual gamers I think... Nintendo targeted them with the Wii, and it worked. Lots of people got one.
> But they are casuals... definitely not the kind of person that readily spends hundreds just for renewing their gig, especially when the new gig doesn't do much more than the previous one, and that the old one still works.
> I'm not too surprised that the Wii U hasn't been so much of a success like the Wii was back in the day.
> The 3DS sells but I think the "3D effect" craze has died down a bit, hasn't it? not exactly a selling point anymore...


I personally think that the whole casual crowd simply moved on. The Wii sold great to the so-called _"family gamers"_ who don't actually exist, _"casual gamers"_ who now have smartphones to satitate all their minigame Bejeweled cross waggling cross screen-swiping needs and the _"healthy"_ crowd who bought the Wii Fit. Most of those customers are irreversibly gone and targeting them now is pretty much pointless, all things considered.

The 3D effect craze has died down and Nintendo reacted to it by releasing the cost-effective 2DS. I personally like to occasionally turn the 3D on, but it's not like it's the defining aspect of my gaming experience - it's a cool gimmick, but that's where the benefits end. Moreover, there's somewhere around 20% of people out there who can't even see it, not sure what the exact figure is, so those people probably don't want to pay extra for a feature that'll only make the screen blurry for them.

As for the whole _"finger-pointing"_ blame game, Nintendo's doing the traditional Japanese _"disgrace to famiry"_ move where the executives take the blame for everything that happened and cut their own stomachs open with a kata--, I mean, they cut their own paychecks... wheras the truth of the matter is that the entire company is to blame - the research and development department failed to recognize contemporary trends and developed an underpowered machine with a tablet controller that's not really a tablet since you can't walk around with it, the marketing team marketed it poorly and the software development teams failed to utilize the strong points and the key selling points of the system in their software - it's a blunder all-around and pointing at each other doesn't help - the situation needs to be mended by means of co-operation of all departments. Sure, each company has a head and each department does as well, but what failed was the ecosystem, not one particular person.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Sure they can make money off of the same old 2-D/3-D Mario platformers, but at the end of the day, they're losing their audience and losing it fast. They're trying too hard to cater to the children and forgetting the gamers that have long since grown up.


 

Hmm, the demographic data I have seen, at least in the US (every country is different) does not support that contention.  It was back in the early days of the last console generation (good data is hard to come by), but the Wii was actually just about the most balanced across genders and ages, being only significantly over-represented in the College-age market (18-24).

The Xbox 360, by contrast, was heavily overrepresented in the young male demographic (tweens, teens, and young adults).

The PS3 was under-represented in the college age and under market and overrepresented in the older adults (45+) market.  

I don't think Nintendo specifically has a gross demographical problem in the US, as they are actually more balanced than their competition, especially Microsoft.  I think that their problems with the Wii U stem specifically from a lot of issues specific to that device and how they marketed and developed for it and their relationships with third party publishers and independent developers.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 1, 2014)

I am happy with Nintendo... Only thing that is bothering me is that they still didn't release the Flipnote Studio 3D in America (the continent).

Nintendo 3DS is doing very well and its 3D is definetely not a gimmick by the way.
Wii U not doing so well, but I am pretty sure they will support it through its whole lifespan. After all, they're not Sega.

And I remember everyone was saying that Sony was not going well, having huge losses and even had to sell some building one or two years ago. They are better now.

If anything, this crisis will motivate Nintendo to make better choices.


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## mightymuffy (Feb 1, 2014)

Nintendo's in a sticky situation right now, and we can point the finger at a host of reasons, and argue until we're blue in the face about why 'my reason's made more of an impact than yours has' and so on..... I think it's good to see they fully acknowledge the situation they're in (rather than ignoring it - 'we've got enough in the bank to cope' etc), let's see just what they do from here on to turn things round. Personally I think it'll be interesting to see what steps they take: my inkling is they've already planned to switch to 3rd party - not that they're gonna tell us that for a good couple of years of course! Then again I could be way off the mark anyway!


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## Nismax (Feb 1, 2014)

It's not Nintendo's fault that people think twiddling thumbsticks is still fun, and are obsessed with wanna be realistic graphics while gameplay is left to die.

People are morons. Electronics are going through a seriously gay Fisher Price phase targeted at computer illiterates. Video games are now marketed towards shallow minds that don't even remember what it's like to play a fun game that is actually challenging or requires skill. All anyone cares about is simulation, even though real life is right outside.


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## Mr_Pichu (Feb 1, 2014)

If Nintendo had been able to sell the core Wii U unit for $100, with the fancy video controller sold as a $50 add-on, I think they would have had another hit.  I think the high price point was the real killer here, Nintendo should have really put more consideration into the price point.  At $150 the Wii U would have been an easy buy, thus ultimately leading to greater developer support.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Mr_Pichu said:


> If Nintendo had been able to sell the core Wii U unit for $100, with the fancy video controller sold as a $50 add-on, I think they would have had another hit. I think the high price point was the real killer here, Nintendo should have really put more consideration into the price point. At $150 the Wii U would have been an easy buy, thus ultimately leading to greater developer support.


 

I think the initial price point was a small part of the problem, but I don't think that would have been a good solution.  The Wii U, as it is today, includes about $150 in parts alone in the console itself, and I doubt Nintendo would be willing to take such a massive loss on each Wii U.

Add to that the controller, which contains about $80 in parts and would likely retail for $100+.  Who is going to buy a $100 controller for a $200 console?  Probably very few, and then what is the point of the controller if developers cannot rely on customers having it?


If they had decided to go the route of a traditional controller in the first place, they probably would have been better off spending that extra $80 to upgrade the RAM and the GPU and set the price at $300 from the beginning.

Honestly, I think there biggest mistake was the timing.  They either should have waited a year and could have come into the market with technology that was a year newer at a time when the "next generation" video consoles were all being hypes by the media and shown all the great things you could do with the new controller or they could have come into the market a year before everyone else and been the only "next generation" system, but thinking that third parties would just randomly decide to make games for the Wii U, they could have worked with them ahead of time to ensure that they would release some games that would fully realize the Wii U's capability, as well as coming into the first year with some really strong titles like, for instance, Pikmin and Mario 3D World at launch and a major Nintendo first party title dropping every month.  

But they didn't give third parties much help in making games that made unique use of the gamepad.  They didn't have any good franchises at launch.  They didn't have third parties making lots of exclusives for the Wii U.  They basically wasted their year head start.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Nismax said:


> It's not Nintendo's fault that people think twiddling thumbsticks is still fun, and are obsessed with wanna be realistic graphics while gameplay is left to die.
> 
> People are morons. Electronics are going through a seriously gay Fisher Price phase targeted at computer illiterates. Video games are now marketed towards shallow minds that don't even remember what it's like to play a fun game that is actually challenging or requires skill. All anyone cares about is simulation, even though real life is right outside.


 

I just picked up a PS3 for $12 and was playing the uncharted demo.  After playing PC and Wii shooters that used a mouse or Wiimote to aim, I forgot how frustrating a traditional controller is.


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## LWares87 (Feb 1, 2014)

Nintendo needs to be more original, instead of just releasing first-party remakes and ports of previously released games (some people may disagree with this, but it's probably true).

Also... there's too much Shovelware (games that no-one will buy, let alone play) nowadays being released from third-party developers and not just for the WiiU!

*Edit:* it's just a good job that we haven't got JLN about anymore making crappy games, as they used to... lol :L


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## Cyan (Feb 1, 2014)

Nintendo doesn't focus on advertising the console enough, they lack marketing strength.
On TV advertisings (in France at least), you see the game OR old people OR famous actors from Hollywood playing a random console and making stupid comments "_ohhhhhhh, juuuuump mario !!!_" "_oooooh, I have a new wallpaper in my house!, I'm sooo happy_". that's what make the game sell ? changing a wallpaper in a kid game played by adults? making mario jump?
Users who know Mario, animal crossing or pokémon don't need an advertising to buy the console and the games, they already have them!

You don't see the console in advertising, there's no explicit targeting at "NEW console power", the 3D, graphics, streetpass features for 3DS, the graphics and gamepad for WiiU, etc.

People don't understand that 3DS and WiiU are not DS and Wii! They already have "it", no need to buy it again.
I know people who are still asking "what's this controller for your Wii ?" ... it's not a Wii, it's a completely different console u__u
there's a lack of advertisement, lack of explanation and enthusiasm generated around the new consoles themselves. people think 3DS is just another DS model, WiiU another Wii model. I thought Nintendo understood their error when naming the 3DS, but they did the same thing with WiiU. Their fault.


Edit:
Nintendo is telling the same thing, but I'm not sure they fully understand how to react to change this.
They should have done it long ago, before naming the console "Wii"U.



			
				http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/index.html said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, as the current situation of Wii U shows, we have not been able to fully communicate the value of the GamePad. We also realize that *we have not been successful in answering consumers’ questions such as, “What is the difference between Wii U and the previous platform, Wii, and what is the benefit of upgrading it*?” By looking at the current sales situation, I am aware that this is due to our lack of effort. What’s even worse is that there even appear to be not a small number of* consumers who think the GamePad is one of the accessories for the previous platform, Wii*.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Cyan said:


> Nintendo doesn't focus on advertising the console enough, they lack marketing strength.
> On TV advertisings (in France at least), you see the game OR old people OR famous actors from Hollywood playing a random console and making stupid comments "_ohhhhhhh, juuuuump mario !!!_" "_oooooh, I have a new wallpaper in my house!, I'm sooo happy_". that's what make the game sell ? changing a wallpaper in a kid game played by adults? making mario jump?
> Users who know Mario, animal crossing or pokémon don't need an advertising to buy the console and the games, they already have them!
> 
> ...


 


I've never even seen any Wii U commercials or advertisements (outside of retail outlets) in the US. I saw a bunch of PS4 and Xbox 1 commercials during NFL games and there was an Assassin's Creed 4 poster at the train stop for months.


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## Cyan (Feb 1, 2014)

pikmin 3 advertising:


Spoiler






it's ... displaying pikmins in real world, you see 1 second of (NO) gameplay and 0.5 seconds of gamepad.


Wii sport club



Spoiler






showing super stars moving their body.... 0.5 second of gameplay, 0.5 second of "console screenshot" at the end.
No explanations, looks like a Wii game advertising ... same as ALL other wii game advertisings released the past 5 years..... that's just boring and misunderstanding : actors moving ridiculously in front of their TV.

They don't have a marketing director at Nintendo's HQ?


Edit:
Mario 3D Land on 3DS.



Spoiler






At least, we see a _little_ more game play.

Same model as old Mario bros on DS :


Spoiler






Are you talking to yourself and making stupid sounds when playing a game? to me it looks very ridiculous.


There's no improvement in their advertising, no changes from old to new generation in ads model and script. they are outdated model, nobody care anymore for these advertisements. no "eye catching" like the video of PS4 two post below.


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## Aeter (Feb 1, 2014)

Nintendo needs to go back to their roots, when they were still the lead company in gaming. Back then they managed to get away with with an a lot less powerful system than the competition because their games were awesome and and would last a long time.
I just have the feeling that ever since Rare left them, the quality has plummeted. 
The concept of Nintendo Hard should make its come back.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Not showing actual gameplay is one of my general pet peeves.

Like, this PS4 commercial they would play constantly during sporting events. Absolutely no gameplay, but at least it was well-done.


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## kimekaro (Feb 1, 2014)

Very simply, Nintendos Market Research team is terrible.

The last three systems (DS, 3DS and WiiU) they have released have had the exact same problem; A Poor explanation of exactly what the system is, how it is different from the last and why the consumer should care. 

In the earlier releases, they showed their strengths by recovering relatively early on (DS) and fairly early on (3DS). However, it appears that developers and consumers have had enough and must get their instant gratification this generation, rather than waiting on Nintendo to fix its mistake and figure out the best way to market the WiiU.

The system itself is more than adequate to do what people who invest in Nintendo systems want; play great first party titles that far outstrip the majority of competitors development teams efforts.  Just like the DS and 3DS, it isn't about what the system CAN do, it is about what the system can do.

So back to my point; their R&D team comes up with great ideas, their marketing team just has no clue how to make consumers understand why X idea exists.

Is it Iwata's fault? Ultimately, as the head of the company, everything is his fault - be it good or bad. I am going to go with "The Japanese Business Culture" is more to blame in general for the continued acceptance of the terrible market research divisions performance.


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## Black-Ice (Feb 1, 2014)

Sega and Nintendo need to link up and make a mega console.

One day... one day the Segtendo WiiCast will be a reality...


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

kimekaro said:


> Very simply, Nintendos Market Research team is terrible.
> 
> The last three systems (DS, 3DS and WiiU) they have released have had the exact same problem; A Poor explanation of exactly what the system is, how it is different from the last and why the consumer should care.
> 
> ...


 

Yeah, I think the "Japanese business culture" is a big problem.  Nintendo probably does about as much business in the US and Canada as Europe and Japan combined, so you think that US culture and trends would dominate business decisions.  In reality though, important things like US consumer electronic trends seem to have little effect on how they design their hardware and run things on the backend.  

A good game in Japan is probably going to be a good game in the US, but a good consumer electronic device or service in Japan might be behind the times in the US.

Like, I think street pass is a brilliant idea, but unfortunately, it is not something that works well in much of the United States.  However, online gaming on consoles is a big thing in the United States, as are microtransactions, two things that are less common in Japan.  

I am thinking that maybe the next console should be designed by Nintendo of America, with the Japanese executives coming here to work on it.


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## Taleweaver (Feb 1, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> ​Targeting Miyamoto?​Okay, now you guys are probably going to either stop here and declare me legally insane.


 
Well...you got that right. The games he makes still have very much quality in and on itself. The Mario franchise may be milked to death, but I have yet to see someone making a real complaint about it being boring or that the previous games were better. At least what their inhouse games are concerned, that nintendo seal of approval stands as a rock.

To a degree, I agree with you that they've relied too much on what they know and just keep sequelizing things too much...but it's not like sony and microsoft never have sequels on their systems.

No...the issue is in marketing. I've been saying the wiiu name sucks from the moment they've announced it, and ninty's marketing department didn't do much to change that.
In fact...WAS there a marketing department? I can understand they initially thought the console was going to sell itself (there were plenty of complaints about the wii's lack of power), but as soon as the competition declared their consoles, they should have played it more agressively. the wiiu is the only console with backward compatibility, yet they didn't capitalize on it. And despite all the features the gamepad has, it is basically not used and even held against the thing.



			
				Gahars said:
			
		

> I can't remember the name, but there was a Eurogamer article recently about a developer's experience working on the Wii U game. There's one anecdote where the guy was told point blank not to reference Xbox Live, PSN, Steam, etc. because none of Nintendo's engineers had any personal experience with the competitions' services.


I've read that article as well. (@others: here's a link to it, in case you missed the thread in the user submitted news). And it indeed shows a lot of painful things that should be addressed as soon as possible. As a non-English speaker, I understand how hard a language barrier is, but it's no excuse. On the contrary: all documentation should be in English, made properly and all issues external programmers have should be addressed and catered for. The things mentioned here is literally the exact opposite of what was promised (more third party support).
...Well, okay, not literally, as the wii had NO third party support at the end of the life cycle, but this isn't a situation you want. It should be addressed. And fast!


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## zeello (Feb 1, 2014)

blaming miyamoto sounds like a good theory.
ninterndo has been systematically alienating gamers for 15 years and maybe its finally caught up to them.
"don't like Mario and zelda ? fuck you" <-- they have that trademarked

as for iwata, I wonder if consumers just don't respond too well to gimmicky products.
wiiu was commercial suicide, and poorly handled (wiimotes shown in advertising, not all games have off TV play, etc).. really tested the limits of the ability to sell a product by brand name alone. I wonder if a straight up normal console qwith pro controller and ps3 specs would have fared any worse.
I actually wonder f dropping motion controls was a bad idea, because nintendo basically exposes themselves as a snake oil salesman. And gamers certainly see wiiu as a sidestep.. does anyone actually think the next N console will use a tablet controller? it is not certain.
but consumers do not want sidesteps, they want progression.

I respect the focus on appealing to kids, but its a shame for smartphone/tablets to pull the rug from under nintendo.
but nintendo could probably have done more for kids, like making off TV play on all games.
gimmicks like 3d and the tablet are probably not great for kids either, since the parents buying it will see it as a waste when they invariably turn off 3d or use wiiu like a normal console.
or when they finish that 40 dollar handheld game and go back to tablet/phone.
just a thought..



Wisenheimer said:


> It depends what yo mean by popular. Five Wii U titles have sold over 1 million units, and they are all Nintendo exclusives.
> 
> If you mean "popular" as in well received by consumers and critics, they are nearing 50 titles rated 75 or better by meta-critic.
> 
> ...


 
fixed

and gamerankings.com is better. They take the reviewers' scores and average them. *Metacritic inserts their own score.*


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## Mr_Pichu (Feb 1, 2014)

Sure you can play some good games on the Wii U virtual console, but compelling original 3rd party games is what the Wii U lacks. Some developers had stated early on that it was difficult to develop for the Wii U because of bugs in the pre-release SDK. Even though all the bugs were eventually fixed, the Wii U already had a tarnished image in developer circles. The Atari Jaguar also was labeled too difficult, developers could not fully utilize the hardware, plus the development tools and documentation were poor. The Jaguar never recovered from this and the Saturn & PSX a year later brought an end to Atari's console ambitions. Is console history repeating itself?


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## ferret7463 (Feb 1, 2014)

HOW!!!! According to some, a system can only fail if it has the big, bad, evil, "PIRACY"  allowed on it. This should prove the point that it's the company's fault for when it fails at sales. Piracy was always an easy escape goat for these jerks when whatever they made failed.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 1, 2014)

For everyone on the "shows no gameplay in ads" thing, it really isn't relevant these days. Commercials are meant to be teasers, to get you interested in the product and what it's about. It sparks interest. Maybe you won't buy purely based on that but the interest is there. Now, being that it is the Year of Our Lord 2014, you can use the magical internet to blow a soft, metaphorical breath on this spark as to make it a fire. You then go to Youtube where there's probably a dozen gameplay demos of the game, reviews of the game, fat neckbeards talking about the game, just a dozen things that will inform you on the game. Gamers are a generally tech-savvy (if not savvy than literate at least) audience and will probably do this if they have the interest.

And really, you have a 30 second spot on TV to advertise your product, how can you really get someone a feel for the gameplay of a game. Is a quick clip of someone firing two shots at a bad guy really going to show you what the game is about? That's why "games journalists" (sorry I vomited a bit there) usually put out longer gameplay videos. Like there's always "first ten minutes" videos out there and just longer play sessions.

So really, let's all stop crying about "no gameplay" in advertisements when it's both irrelevant to the purpose and basically stupid to do.


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## ov3rkill (Feb 1, 2014)

FWIW, I still love Nintendo. I'll always be a fan. The Wii U may be a failure but the 3DS is still going strong. I'm still hoping for the best especially when Super Smash Bros. will be release.


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## Deleted User (Feb 1, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Sure they can make money off of the same old 2-D/3-D Mario platformers, but at the end of the day, they're losing their audience and losing it fast. *They're trying too hard to cater to the children and forgetting the gamers that have long since grown up.*


What? The "fanboys" are the minority in _Nintendo's_ sales, and it's been that way for a fair while. Look through _Nintendo's _best sellers for the Wii, see the first 10? They're all casual games, hell, over _90%_ of the whole list is just casual games (for *all *ages). The main audience of _Nintendo_ is children, changing _Nintendo_ to a company that has a first party competitive fps wouldn't work.

Now, I can hear a lot of you saying "Oh, but that's just the Wii!" Then why don't we browse through some of _Nintendo's _older consoles, DS, Gamecube, N64, Super Nintendo. What do each console sales have in common? Over _90%_ of the _(keep in mind, best selling)_ games are for Children/A casual audience. They've been making mostly casual video games since 1983.

_TL;DR Nintendo Fanboy's (especially the ones who crusade online) are the minority. _


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## keithbeat (Feb 1, 2014)

Hopefully Nintendo next system will have superior hardware and graphic spec and not the same like the will u had of ps3 and f-ing xbox 360 WOW what a bunch of dummies !!


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## jayjay123 (Feb 1, 2014)

It's simple, drop prices for games and paraphenalia by half, undercut the opposition.  This stuff is just too expensive.


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## zeello (Feb 1, 2014)

iwata looks like he is accusing the banana
"banana-san... did _you_ do this?"
"saaawweeee"


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## Lumstar (Feb 1, 2014)

I think cutting off Wii support so quickly hurt their image. Those flocks of ultra casual owners told they'd have to upgrade, can't be very happen with Nintendo.


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## TemplarGR (Feb 1, 2014)

The problem of Nintendo can be summarized with one word: *GREED*

Nintendo was used to really high profit margins both for hardware and software. For many many years. The problem is, back when Nintendo was king, competition was weak and Nintendo could ask pretty much whatever it wanted...

But today, they sell overpriced mediocre games and overpriced underpowered hardware, compared to their competition. I have said it before, and i will say it again:

When i can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for 40 euros, it is insane to ask 50 for a handheld same-old Pokemon. I-N-S-A-N-E. Get it?

Do you realize how much work was Skyrim compared to Pokemon, and what value it provides? There is just no comparison.

The same with hardware, asking for 300 for a console similar to consoles released 6-7 years ago, is a JOKE.

This is not simply a problem with Nintendo. Most companies face trouble when after years of high margins, the market landscape changes and have to accept lower margins. They just can't do that willingly. Most go bankrupt or face vast changes in structure and scope.

Nintedo will either come to terms with lower margins for their products, and possibly abandoning hardware and focusing on software, or descent to irrelevancy. Time will tell...


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## Mario92 (Feb 1, 2014)

This thread pretty much summed it up http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo-and-the-current-online-infrastructure.360424/ 
They also got loads of people mad other day by giving Zelda Four Swords which can't be even bought for free - for USA only and shared information worldwide with 2 differend facebook pages: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...27.41729.170177419710063&type=1&stream_ref=10 

And I still think biggest flaw they have overlooked is localisation. Nothing is translated so only games some people can understand is those Wii Sports and Mario titles. Sony and Valve have had finnish translations years already and they target more "hardcore" audience. Other thing is their regional differences in approaches as nowdays people do have internet to find out about things Nintendo does and doesn't do and where. This is also why people are getting angrier about region locking when they know they are buying device they can't even use to play all the games they buy.


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## mkdms14 (Feb 1, 2014)

I believe part of there problem has to do with the infrastructure in which they sale games(link to system and not a account), no price drops ever with any of there first party titles, they need to drop the gimmicks and come up with a name for there system that speaks "Revolution".(Hell they probably could of used that name instead and would of helped as well)  Part of the underlining problem with Nintendo right now is whenever  there are early warning signs of a possible problem or in this case catastrophe they do little to nothing to address the problem before its too late.  Take Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, Circuit City, ect...  What happen?  They were slow to react to a problem and it caused them to close up shop.  Not saying that will happen to Nintendo but it is a possibility if they don't wise up and really change some of there "traditional" business practices.


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## Ulieq (Feb 1, 2014)

Sadly Nintendos only issue is putting together crap home console hardware and not catering to 3rd parties.  The real question is, why do they do it?  It never made sense that they didn't compete on the home console market, and their pour treatment of 3rd parties is known throughout the industry.  They just don't care about anyone except themselves.  And don't get me started about their attitude towards the west.  It's like all the fathers of Nintendo Execs were world war 2 vets and hate the west with a vengeance.


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## hksrb25s14 (Feb 1, 2014)

Nah man Nintendo will never fail, I love playing the same games but with better graphics,  and a bulky wii u remote that I can barely hold, psshh.... who needs ps4/xbone graphics 8gb ram is over rated I'm good with 2 or whatever,  we don't need past 4gb of ram , most games required 2gb, and I love waiting long for my games to be released. Ps4 and xbone are is FAIL. 
And the 3ds is da bomb diggy, I only have one eye and loving the 3d.

Nintendo forever!!!


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## emigre (Feb 1, 2014)

Yeah, Nintendo really fucked up with the Wii U.


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## jalaneme (Feb 1, 2014)

WhiteMaze, add to that the refusal to go region free on any of their consoles and the price fixing on their first party titles, especially in europe, and delaying games in europe a lot too.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

Mario92 said:


> This thread pretty much summed it up http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo-and-the-current-online-infrastructure.360424/
> They also got loads of people mad other day by giving Zelda Four Swords which can't be even bought for free - for USA only and shared information worldwide with 2 differend facebook pages: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...27.41729.170177419710063&type=1&stream_ref=10
> 
> And I still think biggest flaw they have overlooked is localisation. Nothing is translated so only games some people can understand is those Wii Sports and Mario titles. Sony and Valve have had finnish translations years already and they target more "hardcore" audience. Other thing is their regional differences in approaches as nowdays people do have internet to find out about things Nintendo does and doesn't do and where. This is also why people are getting angrier about region locking when they know they are buying device they can't even use to play all the games they buy.


 

I am not sure with the localization.  Most of their big games are translated into Spanish and French and many games are in Portugese, but Nintendo does not sell well in Latin America compared to its competitors.  In third world countries, piracy is often the norm (you would be hard pressed to find a game shop selling legit products) and, especially outside of Asia, it can be hard to even find Nintendo products unless you go to a "boutique" store catering to foreigners.


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## Bobbybangin (Feb 1, 2014)

It's weird when you think that the DS and Wii were the #1 and #2 sellers of last gen and that currently the 3DS and Wii U are the current #1 and #2 sellers of this gen, yet Nintendo is considered as flopping. Mind you, they're still making a profit. Albeit, at a 30% decline over the previous year, but they're still making a profit.


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## orcid (Feb 1, 2014)

I think they just waited too long with a new console after the Wii was dead. In this time many people, who owned only a wii, bought a PS3 or a xbox360 and with one of this consoles the average gamer doesn`t really want a Wii U. It was right that they didn`t make a high-end console to compete directly with the PS4 and xbox one. A profitable, cheaper console with great games was the right way making money and no losses, but they shoud have lowered there sales expectations because of the mistake waiting too long with the wii successor.



Mario92 said:


> And I still think biggest flaw they have overlooked is localisation. Nothing is translated so only games some people can understand is those Wii Sports and Mario titles. Sony and Valve have had finnish translations years already and they target more "hardcore" audience.


They localize everygame at least Multi-5 which is the biggest part of the market. And games like Layton are localized in even more languages.
I can rate only the german localisations and they are really great and are not only dumb 1:1 translations of the english text. In my opinion Nintendo makes the best localisations in video games.


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## Mario92 (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I am not sure with the localization. Most of their big games are translated into Spanish and French and many games are in Portugese, but Nintendo does not sell well in Latin America compared to its competitors. In third world countries, piracy is often the norm (you would be hard pressed to find a game shop selling legit products) and, especially outside of Asia, it can be hard to even find Nintendo products unless you go to a "boutique" store catering to foreigners.


 
Spanish has 410 million speakers, French 75 million, Finnish 5 million. Of course they have translated most common languages. If I look my 3DS theres 8 languages - *8 LANGUAGES!* Same thing with Wii U, console released in 2013! Meanwhile console from 2006 PS3 has 20 including most of their first party games translated to them all, Steam 26 with all Valve games supporting all those languages (Portal 2 had whole new dimension added to it with subtitles fully translated). Questiong then becomes do you want console that only plays Marios or do you want console that not only has kid friendly games translated to your native language but also all the games you would like to play yourself?

I understand english almost perfectly but many people don't especially the "casuals" they are aiming at.


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## Dork (Feb 1, 2014)

TemplarGR said:


> overpriced mediocre games
> When i can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for 40 euros, it is insane to ask 50 for a handheld same-old Pokemon. I-N-S-A-N-E. Get it?


 
No, not really. Value is entirely subjective, trying to set an objective value is absolutely insane.



TemplarGR said:


> Do you realize how much work was Skyrim compared to Pokemon, and what value it provides? There is just no comparison.


No, and neither do you, unless you were on the development teams for both Pokemon and Skyrim.


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## elMagnate (Feb 1, 2014)

SickPuppy said:


> It does matter when the future games that are going to be released for those other systems are going to need to be dumbed down to run on the Wii U.


 

1st. Dumbed down means easier, not "with less graphics"
2nd. The other consoles are more powerful, Nintendo has been more powerful than the competition 2 times, and it lost those two. 
3rd. Nintendo's biggest successes have always been less powerful than the competition. The DS (154M vs PSP 80), 3DS (45M vs 4M PSvita) Wii (101M vs PS3 and 360 80M), Game Boy (110M vs Wonderswan, Lynx...), NES (60M vs SMS 15M)...
4th. New gen consoles are the weakest they have ever been compared to current PC's ($650 PCs get similar graphics than consoles do)
5th. Due to the PS4 and XBONE architecture, x86-64, graphics nor performance are not going to improve the slightest because developers already know the platform. This 20% better than last gen graphics are the ones we're gonna have for the next 6 years)
6th. Wii U power PC architecture can be exploited further as developers get used to it. These means, graphics are gonna be 10% better than last gen consoles, basically, almost as good as PS4 and XBONE, + cheaper, + comfy controller + no online subscription bullshit. 

If you want graphics go buy a PC. Better get used to 720p @ 30FPS.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I am not sure with the localization. Most of their big games are translated into Spanish and French and many games are in Portugese, but Nintendo does not sell well in Latin America compared to its competitors.


Only Nintendo games I know that are translated to portuguese are the european versions of Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7. They don't seem to care much about brazilian/portuguese players.



> In third world countries, piracy is often the norm (you would be hard pressed to find a game shop selling legit products) and, especially outside of Asia, it can be hard to even find Nintendo products unless you go to a "boutique" store catering to foreigners.


Not true. At least in Brazil it's very easy to find Wii U/3DS titles selling in video game shops or at the mall. Of course, it is way easier to find pirate X360/PS2 games but nowadays many people have consoles that can't be easily hacked.


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## elMagnate (Feb 1, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I am not sure with the localization. Most of their big games are translated into Spanish and French and many games are in Portugese, but Nintendo does not sell well in Latin America compared to its competitors. In third world countries, piracy is often the norm (you would be hard pressed to find a game shop selling legit products) and, especially outside of Asia, it can be hard to even find Nintendo products unless you go to a "boutique" store catering to foreigners.


 

What are you saying m8? Barelly any Nintendo games are translated to Portuguese? 

Pokemon, for example, is in Korean (50M potential consumers), Japanes (120M), English (410M), Spanish (420M), Italian (60M), German (100M) and French(75M), plus a bunch of other non-native speakers of this language. Translating these games to Korean or Italian seems rather stupid while you're neglecting Portuguese, Mandarin or Russian, you're neglecting markets with almost no speakers of any of these languages (maybe Portuguese understand okay Spanish, but before these two last games, all games we're brought to all Latin America in F*cking English, can you believe that?) 

Nintendo shouldn't neglect countries like Russia, Brazil or China (and Taiwan with 80M), massive markets. If you sell your console at $1000 there and games over $100 of course everyone is going ot pirate. Now with the e-shop people can buy games at Canadian or Amercan prices, so games shouldn't be a problem mostly, but still...


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 1, 2014)

RodrigoDavy said:


> Only Nintendo games I know that are translated to portuguese are the european versions of Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7. They don't seem to care much about brazilian/portuguese players.
> 
> 
> Not true. At least in Brazil it's very easy to find Wii U/3DS titles selling in video game shops or at the mall. Of course, it is way easier to find pirate X360/PS2 games but nowadays many people have consoles that can't be easily hacked.


 

I think Latin America is in the US sphere of influence, so the government has been more responsive to not allowing piracy to be as prolific as in many developing nations.

On the other hand, in Asia and the Middle East, it is very prolific.  Even in wealthy Arab countries, you can find counterfeit goods in the backroom of boutiques in the big Western-style malls.


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 1, 2014)

LWares87 said:


> Nintendo needs to be more original, instead of just releasing first-party remakes and ports of previously released games (some people may disagree with this, but it's probably true).
> 
> Also... there's too much Shovelware (games that no-one will buy, let alone play) nowadays being released from third-party developers and not just for the WiiU!
> 
> *Edit:* it's just a good job that we haven't got JLN about anymore making crappy games, as they used to... lol :L


 
Agreed to a degree.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 2, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I think Latin America is in the US sphere of influence, so the government has been more responsive to not allowing piracy to be as prolific as in many developing nations.


Sphere of influence sound so much like Cold War, haha 

The US really pressure my country to fight piracy, but I think piracy sales are being affected by the internet. We have consoles that use external hard drives and micro-sd cards so people can just download their games on the internet. And also, it's way easier and cheaper nowadays to download and burn your own DVD games. It's fairly common to see salesman who decided to sell legit products because piracy is not as lucrative as before. I guess in countries where people don't have much access to computer or internet sales from digital pirated products must be better


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 2, 2014)

RodrigoDavy said:


> Sphere of influence sound so much like Cold War, haha
> 
> The US really pressure my country to fight piracy, but I think piracy sales are being affected by the internet. We have consoles that use external hard drives and micro-sd cards so people can just download their games on the internet. And also, it's way easier and cheaper nowadays to download and burn your own DVD games. It's fairly common to see salesman who decided to sell legit products because piracy is not as lucrative as before. I guess in countries where people don't have much access to computer or internet sales from digital pirated products must be better


 

Well, it is true.  The US still has its Monroe Doctrine.  All of the Americas is our exclusive zone of military and economic influence, especially since Russia stopped being able to afford to keep military bases in Cuba.  Now, there is a big push to make the whole continent part of a free trade zone like NAFTA, so you can ship goods all the way from Tierra Del Fuego to the Bearing Straight without so much regulation.

And, of course in the wealthier countries, like Argentina and Chile, or even Brazil and Mexico (for the middle class, not the poor villagers or slum dwellers), there is h disposable income and 24/7 electricity.

You go to the poorer countries, and this is not necessarily true.  Like, in Pakistan, all the gameshops pretty much sell nothing but pirated Xbox and PS games unless you go to an expensive boutique.  I mean, in a place like Argentina, when the average middle class household is making $30,000 per year, a $50 game is a luxury, but it is not a huge sacrifice.  In Pakistan, when a bread-winner is taking in two or three hundred dollars a month, that is just not realistic for the average person.  

Of course, you can still find counterfeit goods in Chinese shops on Canal Street in New York, and you still read about customs seizing containers full of them off of ships in Oakland or Los Angeles, so it is not just a third world problem.  People sell pirated movies, games, and counterfeit luxury goods on the streets of Washington DC.  But it is not as blatant.  There are no shops out in the open displaying this kind of stuff.  It is more like a drug deal.  If you go to Malaysia, Iraq, China, et cetera, this stuff is in market stalls.


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## weatMod (Feb 2, 2014)

the problem is not that they rely on their old standby most popular  miyamoto franchises , the problem is they dont release enough of them, and good quality ones, all they release are absolute shit tier iterations of  popular franchises , sorry but its true  , they dont focus enough on putting out more quality games of their  popular franchises , too many fucking mario parties and 2.5 d games and no full 3d games ,no games where we can even move  the damn camera, no games that take full advatage of the new hardware,  3ds is turning 3  and we have got no full 3d iterations of mario ,zelda or   even any metroid game period  ,no SSb  , the games they have released are too easy iMO mario 3d land , LOZ ALBW , etc. and absolute shit tier offerings on 3ds eshop  , 

 they should have had LO albw developed and released years ago and beeen releasing a full 3d zelda by the release of ALBW  ,they should have had  full 3d iterations of their popular franchises ready for both the release of the 3ds and wiiu  or atleast a  one of either a mario zelda or  metroid caliber  and another shortly there after 

im old enough to remember getting my snes and  n64  on release day packed in with smw and m64 this is how they used to sell  hardware had they had an epic zelda out this x-mas that looked like the demo i would have already bought a wii u by now, just for that one game 

and the design of the wii u was a disaster from the start, looks like the wii aesthetic wise ,  the controller is just gimmicky ,nintendo used to deliver groundbreaking  hardware innovations thats what kept them relevant ,they failed miserably with this generation in that department 

as for online ironically they focus too little on it ,but other consoles this gen are focusing too much on it,  i really dont want this integrated social networking BS  on my gaming console , this is a horrible idea


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## farmin (Feb 2, 2014)

While I agree with a lot of points against Nintendo, especially their bizarre focus on rigid region restrictions, the third party support stuff is total garbage.
Plenty of third parties developed for the Wii but couldn't be bothered working within the graphical limitations so used it's high sales figures to offload cheap bargain bin crap instead of creating genuinely interesting games. Most of the third party support for the Wii U so far has been an atrocious effort on the developers part, half-assed, buggy ports of 2 year old games launched with the Wii U which obviously didn't sell well. Zombi U didn't sell well either, it's also a pretty badly made game but because it's on the Wii U it's the console's fault and Nintendo needs to work harder.
Resident Evil 4 sold 1.6 million copies on Gamecube to the PS2's 2.2 million despite the PS2's install base being about 7 times bigger than the Gamecubes.
So much of the problem lies in the majority of third party developers being so terrified of working hard on a great game and releasing it exclusively on Wii U.
Worst case scenario: port it to every console under the sun later if it bombs.


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## yoyoyo69 (Feb 2, 2014)

I always refrain from posting, as it's not just as straight cut as - no 3rd party support, inferior hardware, etc. I am an avid gamer (due to this obviously a big Nintendo fan), having owned all their systems but the Gamecube (I know). I was adamant I would not buy a Wii U after the disparity between the consoles last gen, but gave in. I do not buy Sony products due to their business practices (I've owned every system but the PS4, sometimes more than one). I may buy a PS4 in future, but it is very unlikely now that they too have compulsory charges for online play.

My opinion of the Wii U is this:

Poor online infrastructure, this does not really bother me personally (hence me not buying the competition, who are pushing hard for digital and DLC with compulsory charges). What does bother me is Nintendo will inevitably push this in future, and their infrastructure is not setup for this in many areas.

Whilst Nintendo have proven very good games can be made on their system, inevitably the lack of hardware will be to their detriment in a couple of years, especially with demanding games, i.e. physics, A.I. etc.

Likewise the hardware is off putting to developers, albeit lazy developers, which is most of the big ones. I have more to say but don't feel like typing a wall of text (bigger than I already have), as it does not make a good read.

I'll finish by saying, the sole biggest, problem I feel Nintendo has, is lack of 3rd party, which stems from the other issues. As has been mention before, these issues go hand in hand and feed on each other.


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## yoyoyo69 (Feb 2, 2014)

farmin said:


> While I agree with a lot of points against Nintendo, especially their bizarre focus on rigid region restrictions, the third party support stuff is total garbage.
> Plenty of third parties developed for the Wii but couldn't be bothered working within the graphical limitations so used it's high sales figures to offload cheap bargain bin crap instead of creating genuinely interesting games. Most of the third party support for the Wii U so far has been an atrocious effort on the developers part, half-assed, buggy ports of 2 year old games launched with the Wii U which obviously didn't sell well. Zombi U didn't sell well either, it's also a pretty badly made game but because it's on the Wii U it's the console's fault and Nintendo needs to work harder.
> Resident Evil 4 sold 1.6 million copies on Gamecube to the PS2's 2.2 million despite the PS2's install base being about 7 times bigger than the Gamecubes.
> So much of the problem lies in the majority of third party developers being so terrified of working hard on a great game and releasing it exclusively on Wii U.
> Worst case scenario: port it to every console under the sun later if it bombs.


 

I think this is pretty much what is meant by lack of 3rd party support. While it is almost no exsistant, those who do develop usually use the Wii u a a cash cow for their garbage. All the while those developers who make a lot of effor to develop for the Wii u are catering to a small user base, which makes them alot less than they deserve.


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## sporkonomix (Feb 2, 2014)

SickPuppy said:


> Hey, Activision did wonders to get the call of duty titles working on the Wii. It's too bad none of the rest of the third party devs did work like that. The thing is, Nintendo is known for not producing the strongest console, and that's why it's not selling well. Even if the Wii U is just a little weaker that the xbone, then that's reason enough for the xbox kids not to get a nintendo console. With out a userbase, Nintendo will suffer. One way to improve the userbase, build the best console of the generation. The NES was a perfect example of that. My first console was a magnovox odyssey2, so I've been around for almost all of the gaming consoles. Nintendo needs to stop it with the gimmicks, and build a straight forward gaming machine that out performs the competition. The gamepad shouldn't be the selling point of the Wii U, it should be treated like like an add on.
> 
> It also seems that Nintendo has done enough to piss off some of the third party game devs, they need to fix that too. Nintendo needs that third party support, and getting that back would help them out alot.


 
Nintendo gave third parties a head start. What do you think the drought of games was at the very beginning of the console that Nintendo's _still_ working on fixing? They were having deals with Ubisoft and EA -- the two biggest Western publishers -- and EA left when Nintendo rejected using Origin. Ubisoft has somewhat flip-flopped on Nintendo, but have at least put out a few alright games (and Watch Dogs looks good). Where were third parties when Nintendo gave them a chance to shine (specifically what they asked for)? That's why I have no remorse for third party developers. They whine about Nintendo's software getting more exposure and sales. When Nintendo gives them the limelight a bit early while they're still working on stuff, they drag their feet and make up reasons not to develop for them. No big loss, imo. Sega and Atlus are pretty good friends with Nintendo. They'll fill the hole that Capcom and Konami left behind by killing off their flagship franchises (Mega Man and Castlevania).

The problem Nintendo faces is that it can't make everyone happy, and yet it's expected to make everyone happy. The "gimmick" argument is tired and boring. If all you want are new graphics and a new coat of paint, buy a PC and upgrade it every 3 years or so. Those "gimmicks" are the reasons to buy a console. What's the point of buying a new console if it's not offering something new that you haven't experienced yet? For that reason, I won't buy an Xbox One or a PS4; they offer nothing new to me. The 3DS was an iterative upgrade, but the 3-D, Circle Pad, and gyroscope were enough to get me interested. The Wii U allows you to play (some) games without a TV! That's pretty awesome, imo. In short, there's nothing wrong with preferring something else, but dismissing hardware features as "gimmicks" is *so* 2001.


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## Veho (Feb 2, 2014)

Where do we point the finger of blame? Where do I start? 

*Bad marketing. *They failed to make it clear the Wii U is a new console and not just a new controller; failed _miserably_. For months after launch great portions of the parket were still thinking it's just an add-on for the old Wii. A similar thing happened with the 3DS ("It's just a DS with a 3D screen") but the confusion was resolved in time. The Wii U was not so lucky. 

*Bad specs.* Yep. 

*Lack of vision. *Yes this sounds like management doublespeak but it's true. They didn't have a clear concept of what they wanted to do with the whole device, starting with the gamepad. "The screen on the controller will open many gaming options and enhance the gaming experience." Okay, how? "We don't really know yet, we'll think of something later." Instead of telling people why one would want or _need_ the gamepad, they just sort of launched it and let someone else think of what to do with it. And so far what they've come up with was not game-changing (hah). 

*No "Wii Sports" title.* By which I don't mean a Wii Sports sequel, but what the Wii Sports did for the Wii and its weird new controller: showcase the unique features and abilities (and why one would even want them), and show how they can't be replicated on a standard controller. And more importantly, a game that would get people to invite friends over to have fun and generate further interest through word of mouth. 

*Low 3rd party support. *No major exclusives, and most 3rd party titles are multiplatforms also available on consoles people already own.  

*Low 1st party support. *As of yet there is no Metroid, Mario Kart, new Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Animal Crossing, Mario Party... I understand that Nintendo are stretched thin at the moment, but usually consoles can rely on smaller titles and 3rd party exclusives to tide them over before the core titles come out, and in this case it can't. It needs system sellers badly. 

*Bad online support.* I don't think I should even count this one. It's Nintendo. What did we expect? 

*Badly implemented extra features / criminally underutilized potential.* If the console was supposed to be the new "Entertainment System", they should have implemented the "entertainment" features way better than they have. At the moment, the ones that are available are serviceable at best, and none of them are so good people would feel the urge to switch over to the Wii U from the myriad other devices they already use for the purpose (this applies to games as well; there's no point in switching to the WiiU if all it plays are PS3 ports). 


Each one of the issues mentioned above wouldn't be a problem on its own, but all of them combined spell doom for the U. Fortunately, all but the poor hardware specs can be fixed. It's up to Nintendo to do something about it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2014)

sporkonomix said:


> Nintendo gave third parties a head start. What do you think the drought of games was at the very beginning of the console that Nintendo's _still_ working on fixing? They were having deals with Ubisoft and EA -- the two biggest Western publishers -- and EA left when Nintendo rejected using Origin. Ubisoft has somewhat flip-flopped on Nintendo, but have at least put out a few alright games (and Watch Dogs looks good). Where were third parties when Nintendo gave them a chance to shine (specifically what they asked for)? That's why I have no remorse for third party developers. They whine about Nintendo's software getting more exposure and sales. When Nintendo gives them the limelight a bit early while they're still working on stuff, they drag their feet and make up reasons not to develop for them. No big loss, imo. Sega and Atlus are pretty good friends with Nintendo. They'll fill the hole that Capcom and Konami left behind by killing off their flagship franchises (Mega Man and Castlevania).
> 
> The problem Nintendo faces is that it can't make everyone happy, and yet it's expected to make everyone happy. The "gimmick" argument is tired and boring. If all you want are new graphics and a new coat of paint, buy a PC and upgrade it every 3 years or so. Those "gimmicks" are the reasons to buy a console. What's the point of buying a new console if it's not offering something new that you haven't experienced yet? For that reason, I won't buy an Xbox One or a PS4; they offer nothing new to me. The 3DS was an iterative upgrade, but the 3-D, Circle Pad, and gyroscope were enough to get me interested. The Wii U allows you to play (some) games without a TV! That's pretty awesome, imo. In short, there's nothing wrong with preferring something else, but dismissing hardware features as "gimmicks" is *so* 2001.


 

So you're saying that Nintendo "gave third parties a chance" but having no content in the beginning of the release?

Holy goddamn that is so fucking stupid I don't even know where to start.

You don't get third parties by producing no games and saying "We're so much better, but we're giving you a little headstart because we're so goddamn nice." You get it by making a system that's easy to develop for, securing deals with publishers, creating relationships with people in the industry. Something Nintendo has no goddamn clue to do.

Also this whole thing about Nintendo games being the best and that third parties need to kowtow to Nintendo is fucking dumb. I know plenty of third party titles that beat Nintendo across the fucking board.


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## Hadrian (Feb 2, 2014)

I blame Guild for this, all of his sarky trolling comments have put people off.  Is it a coincidence that he is deriding the Wii U while championing the Vita and the Vita is now doing better? No, blame Guild.

Let's find him and cut him. Filthy dawg.


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## Hadrian (Feb 2, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I know plenty of third party titles that beat Nintendo across the fucking board.


 
Don't you dare lie! Everyone knows that Mario Party 3DS beats the shit out of Starbound.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2014)

Hadrian said:


> Don't you dare lie! Everyone knows that Mario Party 3DS beats the shit out of Starbound.


 

Namco Party master race represent


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## Hadrian (Feb 2, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Namco Party master race represent


 
The true master race belongs to the Sonic Shuffle enthusiasts.


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## codezer0 (Feb 2, 2014)

The simple nature of the problem boils down to the fact that Nintendo has not handled itself well, and is _still_ without a worthy system seller. Considering the WiiU had at least a full year's head start on the P$4 and Xbox One, that's pretty depressing to say that even now. Homebrew and hacking of at least the vWii mode has at least helped the WiiU be more complete in my eyes (certainly moreso than either of its direct competitors), but there are still no games *FOR WiiU* that I would get on it as opposed to another console. NSMBU was a blatant xeroxing that bordered on insulting. I know I can't speak for everyone here, but I along with a number of members in my circle of friends _did not care for Pikmin 3 at all_. And I simply despise the _Legend of Zelda_ franchise. Mario 3D World is insanely cute, and if I had the system I would pick that up. But that's only one game... I don't buy a system on just one game anymore. And Smash Brothers _still_ has not come out.

I also have a serious problem with Iwata being the CEO in the first place, much less getting to be CEO for NoJ and NoA. The fact he was able to just take over the job so easily and kick Reggie out like NBC kicked Conan off the spot screams of thinly veiled xenophobia on the part of Nintendo's board of Directors, which are likely entirely comprised of old Japanese guys that still hold hatred for anything foreign. I firmly believe that Iwata is wholly incapable for an executive leadership position at Nintendo, and the way the company has handled the WiiU should be evidence enough of that. I would not mind him reprising a role as head programmer for Nintendo - his capabilities there is not what's in question. Rather, I seriously question his leadership because he (Iwata, again) has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is incapable of adapting to change, or seizing any opportunities in a leadership role.

Considering Nintendo's entire online strategy has been almost exclusively held on as Japan-only until the Wii and DSi, and the fact that even now they are still steadfast in holding on to archaic methods of control when its competitors (yes, even Sega at the time) handled their online strategies better, demonstrates Iwata having a pathological hatred for any kind of multiplayer that doesn't have the players involved physically within arms' reach of each other. Since he is clearly too bullheaded to recognize that gamers, including those that grew up with the company, and society as a whole has since moved on to methods that don't restrict ability to play together to local and geography, demonstrates that Nintendo's old guard is pathologically refusing to adapt, or going in kicking and screaming.
Japanese xenophobia has shown in a *LOT* of their decisions, especially in Iwata's case.
He is the reason that Mother 3 was never released officially states-side, among many other games that only reached awareness and cult followings internationally because we had to pirate them... because we had no official way of ever getting them at all.
He allowed services like flipnote and swapnote falter and shutdown instead of working out new agreements to keep them running.
He is the reason that Nintendo of America had *no* online strategy whatsoever while Japan was enjoying online capabilities since the Famicom
He is in part to blame for the many cancelled projects both first-party and third-party

Reggie Fils-Aime not only has the leadership experience, but he is also a big part of the reason that the original Wii was so successful. He clearly resonated with the fans, and some of his best lines became glorious internet memes ("My body is ready", anyone?). He knew what gamers wanted, and how to market. And yet with this, the board _still_ kicked him out in favor of _AZN PENISU_ 
At this point I have no faith in Nintendo learning from their mistakes collectively until there is a fundamental shift in ideology at the board, or both the existing board and Iwata realize that they are hopelessly out of touch and step down. _At the least_, they need to put reggie back in to run the show. It may now be the hardest hand he's been dealt, but I believe Reggie would better know how to re-right the ship than Iwata ever could.


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## CathyRina (Feb 2, 2014)

I think Nintendo would do better if they didn't release their consoles so early and rely on nostalgia so much.
I mean the first year of the 3DS was filled with ports and remakes until they finally started releasing first party games that people cared about.
Same goes for the Wii U. Wind Waker HD was an completely unnessecery remake. When I want to play wind waker I hook up my Wii or start Dolphin on the PC. (also wasn't GC announced as Virtual console for the Wii U when it came out?)
My point is, Wind Waker isn't a game I would call old enough for a Remake. The Original looks still good enough to enjoy the game entirely.
During the last year the only game that I would say that I need it was Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.
Problem is, I already have a 3DS and why should I buy a system for a game that I can already play on the console I own?
Even now there are barely games that really catch my interest. All the Mario Wii U games were already present is one form or another. 
Also there is too much Mario. A co-worker once asked me "Why do you have a Wii if you don't play Mario games on it?" and thats a cliché Nintendo should get rid of.

Until Monolithsofts X finally comes out I see no reason in buying a Wii U.
I don't wanna blame one particular person for this because since the E3 even Sakurai has shown that he has problems with problems that don't exist.
And I start to think that this is how Nintendo is thinking about everything.


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## Hielkenator (Feb 2, 2014)

I have all AAA Titles for WiiU so far.
I think the 2-3 months between each major release is excellent.
Who has the money anyway to buy a game each week?

Pikmin3, Mario 3D world, games with a soul. Not the "next sandbox games" all very enjoyable games.

Now for my PS4, Damn expensive, and NO GAMES EITHER.


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## Redhorse (Feb 2, 2014)

Cyan said



Cyan said:


> Nintendo doesn't focus on advertising the console enough, they lack marketing strength.
> On TV advertisings (in France at least), you see the game OR old people OR famous actors from Hollywood playing a random console and making stupid comments "_ohhhhhhh, juuuuump mario !!!_" "_oooooh, I have a new wallpaper in my house!, I'm sooo happy_". that's what make the game sell ? changing a wallpaper in a kid game played by adults? making mario jump?
> Users who know Mario, animal crossing or pokémon don't need an advertising to buy the console and the games, they already have them!
> 
> ...


 



I feel compelled to weigh in on this topic as I agree with eveyr word Cyan says here...

I am no expert, but do consider myself an 'informed' gamer, I stop and read this site daily for about 7 years now. And ever since the first murmurs of the Wii U, I still do NOT know wht they damd thing( the pad) does nor do I even care. (from the perspective sale point of view.)

I feel they released the 3ds too soon, but don't feel as though the 3d is a gimmick. I feel it is just now coming into it's own. I honestly never thought the DS would be replaced (for me) by any other handheld. That opinion is just now changing.  The Wii U, to ME is still nothing more than another Wii. (I realize it's not) but most of the public who does not try to be informed,  doesn't know this an therefore is not even a perspective client/buyer. From the general publics stand point, why rebuy the same thing?


PS: I do thing N should read all of these posts here though, as there are manhy (if not all) valid points that could change thier luck/fortunes.


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## Cyan (Feb 3, 2014)

I just thought another thing today : The gamepad !
When it was announced, a lot of people thought it was an independent tablet you could "load" games into, and bring it with you everywhere without the console.
That's what users wanted, and what Nintendo didn't listen to.

Of course you wouldn't be able to play Pikmin or Lego city.
Nintendo should have designed it as a self powered unit, which could be loaded with VC/WiiWare at home, and allow using it as an independent device instead of a simple video receiver only.
"showing" your tablet outside of your home, with games developed only for WiiU, would have helped giving interest to other people seeing it.
That alone could have been a marketing idea.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 3, 2014)

Cyan said:


> I just thought another thing today : The gamepad !
> When it was announced, a lot of people thought it was an independent tablet you could "load" games into, and bring it with you everywhere without the console.
> That's what users wanted, and what Nintendo didn't listen to.
> 
> ...


 

Yeah, I really was disappointed by the gamepad. Thought it was a huge waste of potential right there. EVERYTHING with the Wii U has been disastrous though. I think that if it was a self-powered unit it'd be a great way to play with it, but being forced to essentially tether to the console is a bit of a bust. I heard the range is not the greatest with it too, so the dream of bathroom gaming has died.


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## Ulieq (Feb 4, 2014)

My experience before selling my Wii U and getting a ps4

Gamepad
-heavy
-analog buttons are short and require too much presure to allow for fine movements, games like need for speed was tortuous with them, and I had to switch to Nunchuck analog stick to play.
-battery life horrible, sorry not paying extra for another battery
-essentially had to plug in all the time, and it needed a separate HUGE ac adapter.
-Gamepad is only standard definition
-Screen is simply not bright enough.
-screen does not turn off when watching streaming video
-focusing on a 2nd screen in your hand, then a tv at the other side of the room is not confortable
-SERIOUS LAG sometimes, no option to hook up directly.

System
-Tiny HD, 8 and 32gb (32 is barely enough for 1 next gen game, 8 is not enough for anything).
-cannot remove HD, Nintendo believed you would have an external HD (Making 3 ac adapters in total, wtf?)
-Does not have USB 3.0?????
-2GB ram (WHAT??)
-Glossy - dirty the next day
-No DVD or Blue Ray support (why?)
-OS EXTREMELY slow.
-Wii Support required 2nd boot, and only with a wiimote. Why?
-NO ETHERNET PORT!!!! WTF?

Games
-5-9 year old target age.

Folks
-Seriously, 3 ac adapters if you have an external HD that requires extra power (since Wii U only has usb 2.0 ports lol)


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## tbgtbg (Feb 4, 2014)

Gamepad
-heavy

If you're a child, maybe, gives me no problems. 

-analog buttons are short and require too much presure to allow for fine movements, games like need for speed was tortuous with them, and I had to switch to Nunchuck analog stick to play.

Fair point, but note they're not actually even analog at all.

-battery life horrible, sorry not paying extra for another battery

Fair point

-essentially had to plug in all the time, and it needed a separate HUGE ac adapter.

It's a small "soap on a rope" AC adapter, nothing HUGE about it unless maybe you're comparing it to certain body parts. (I mean your nose, clearly, get your mind out of the gutter!). 

-Gamepad is only standard definition

At that size it doesn't matter that much

-Screen is simply not bright enough.

It should be if you're always keeping it plugged in as you claim. Setting 4 and 5 are actually brighter when plugged in than when running on battery power (which I find annoying, but whatever) and setting 5 plugged in or not is pretty bright unless you're playing outside at high noon on a cloudless day in the middle of summer or something.

-screen does not turn off when watching streaming video

That would be a problem. I've never streamed to WiiU, can you access whatever you use to stream with another controller? 

-focusing on a 2nd screen in your hand, then a tv at the other side of the room is not confortable

I don't find it any less comfortable than using a DS/3DS

-SERIOUS LAG sometimes, no option to hook up directly.

Never encountered any lag, but I don't try to play halfway across the house or anything. 


System
-Tiny HD, 8 and 32gb (32 is barely enough for 1 next gen game, 8 is not enough for anything).

Yeah, built in storage is ridiculously small, and options for external suck as they expect to have sole access to the USB drive and reformat it. Totally unacceptable

-cannot remove HD, Nintendo believed you would have an external HD (Making 3 ac adapters in total, wtf?)

Because it's not an HDD, it's a chip on the mobo. (And many external HDD's draw power direct from USB, not an AC adapter, plus there are flash drives)

-Does not have USB 3.0?????

Doesn't need it. 2.0 is fast enough for what it does.

-2GB ram (WHAT??)

No matter how much ram any system includes, it should always be more (and that's the bottom line)

-Glossy - dirty the next day

I hate glossy. Looks good in stock photos and never anywhere else once it's covered in dust and fingerprints. Still hardly a major concern unless you plan to look at the system more than play it.

-No DVD or Blue Ray support (why?)

LIcensing fees for such players would have pushed price up

-OS EXTREMELY slow.

Yeah, it's kinda annoying, but honestly I find the PS3's to be far slower.

-Wii Support required 2nd boot, and only with a wiimote. Why?

What? Don't understand what you're saying there at all.

-NO ETHERNET PORT!!!! WTF?

Same as on the Wii. I too find it annoying, but with most people running it in a different room than their router, I guess the extra 10cents or whatever for the port didn't make sense to Nintendo.

Games
-5-9 year old target age.

Or all ages target range, same as... oh... Every Nintendo system ever. Not that there aren't games out there for other ages, ZombiU?

Folks
-Seriously, 3 ac adapters if you have an external HD that requires extra power (since Wii U only has usb 2.0 ports lol)

Them being USB 2.0 has nothing to do with that and it can be solved by a USB cable with two connectors.


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## Ziko (Feb 4, 2014)

ferret7463 said:


> HOW!!!! According to some, a system can only fail if it has the big, bad, evil, "PIRACY"  allowed on it. This should prove the point that it's the company's fault for when it fails at sales. Piracy was always an easy escape goat for these jerks when whatever they made failed.


 
That argument doesn't hold much water in the cup though I believe that's what killed a lot of the last gen consoles like the DS & PSP. Again, costs of the games were so high that a lot of people turned to that and well Sony was at least graceful about it to the point where they wrote it off and moved onto the Vita.


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## CathyRina (Feb 4, 2014)

Ziko said:


> That argument doesn't hold much water in the cup though I believe that's what killed a lot of the last gen consoles like the DS & PSP. Again, costs of the games were so high that a lot of people turned to that and well Sony was at least graceful about it to the point where they wrote it off and moved onto the Vita.


 
For a "dead console" I remember them full of life.
The DS was the best selling Handheld of all time and PSP has one of the best library of really good quality games.
The reason Nintendo and sony moved to 3DS and Vita was the Generation change, not piracy related security upgrade what so ever.


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## calmwaters (Feb 4, 2014)

I've never followed anyone's ad campaigns, especially video games. But being involved in the game world, I see ads for them so... based on this, I'd say that there is a Nintendo bias in the journalistic room. They "obligate" themselves to write Nintendo themed articles just because the big N is still very popular. As for Nintendo, well, I'm not sure how their marketing campaigns go. I thought they did a good job with Nintendo Power and the Nintendo Channel. But, the Nintendo Channel was available only to those who had a Wii, so it had a limited audience. I don't know of many people who actively follow Nintendo's ad campaigns; they mostly follow Kotaku or some such magazine company for their news. That's just the way it is now.

But, I don't think I can blame Nintendo for not releasing third party games; it's not their call. Outside of Mario, Zelda, Metroid and all their other franchises, they are not responsible for releasing any other titles. I mean, it'd be like asking Squeenix to release the next Call of Duty title: sure they could do it, but why? Activision already makes those titles; why should they let someone else make a title? And why should Activision license a CoD game made by Squeenix? It really would be a waste of their time. Unless, people would be interested in playing a CoD game made by Squeenix; it could turn out to be good. But I suppose that's what journalists IGN are for. If IGN doesn't like it, odds are it will flop.

As for the quote by Eurogamer: I believe nearly all of you have played nearly all of the Mario and Zelda titles that were ever released. This would explain why you think the new games are easy: despite the graphics, the controls are still the same. And a lot of you believe the SNES era was the greatest era in games and it has since gone downhill. The GameCube era was good, probably because 3D was better integrated into games than the last era. But we judge modern games based on our premise of those old titles and they usually fall short of glory. And modern gamers, not even realizing they are kids, don't want to play "kids" games like Mario and Zelda; a game with a dog sidekick and large guns is good enough for them. Thanks for reading this block of text and have a nice day.


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## kyogre123 (Feb 4, 2014)

While I'm not going to discuss what is the weak point in Nintendo's sales, I agree that they should stop living in the past and start giving online multiplayer support to their games; it is a must nowadays.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 4, 2014)

kyogre123 said:


> While I'm not going to discuss what is the weak point in Nintendo's sales, I agree that they should stop living in the past and start giving online multiplayer support to their games; it is a must nowadays.


They do make games with online multiplayer.

And, also, not every game needs to have online multiplayer, it must only be applied when it is benefitial to the game experience. I don't see any point in having online multiplayer in Zelda.

But, I find it inexcusable that many games nowadays have online multiplayer while not having local multiplayer. Heck, I can't play Battlefield with my friend, because I don't own the game. At least with Mario Kart 7, I don't need to have the game, I can just use download play to play with a friend who owns the game


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## kyogre123 (Feb 4, 2014)

RodrigoDavy said:


> They do make games with online multiplayer.
> 
> And, also, not every game needs to have online multiplayer, it must only be applied when it is benefitial to the game experience. I don't see any point in having online multiplayer in Zelda.
> 
> But, I find it inexcusable that many games nowadays have online multiplayer while not having local multiplayer. Heck, I can't play Battlefield with my friend, because I don't own the game. At least with Mario Kart 7, I don't need to have the game, I can just use download play to play with a friend who owns the game


 
Of course I was talking about games that don't have online multiplayer, I think pointing that out would be redundant but I see some people need all kind of boundaries well defined...

I would say that every game that has local multiplayer involved already should have online mutiplayer as I said, times have changed and a lot of social stuff we humans do has reached the virtual stage (for the good and for the bad); it became a must and not fully integrating it to their schemes is bad for the general appealing of their products.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 4, 2014)

kyogre123 said:


> Of course I was talking about games that don't have online multiplayer, I think pointing that out would be redundant but I see some people need all kind of boundaries well defined...
> 
> I would say that every game that has local multiplayer involved already should have online mutiplayer as I said, times have changed and a lot of social stuff we humans do has reached the virtual stage (for the good and for the bad); it became a must and not fully integrating it to their schemes is bad for the general appealing of their products.


But, I think nowadays they make a lot of games with online features. If you're talking about the Wii and DS they're in the past know... At least with the 3DS, I've seen many games released with online multiplayer, even games that focus on single-player like Luigi's Mansion and Kid Icarus: Uprising. Of course, there are some inexplicable omissions like Star Fox 64 3D and Fire Emblem: Awakening lacking online multiplayer, but excluding these few cases, I see no lack of online multiplayer game as you say. It's not to say they shouldn't make more online multiplayer games but what you said make it seems like they have not been trying to get better in this area, when as a matter of fact, they are trying


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## kyogre123 (Feb 4, 2014)

RodrigoDavy said:


> but what you said make it seems like they have not been trying to get better in this area, when as a matter of fact, they are trying


 
It may seem that to you, but no...


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## osirisjem (Feb 4, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> I believe the only cause for this, is really that "Nintendo Stubbornness" regarding many aspects:
> 
> - The lack of third party titles on the Wii U
> 
> ...


 

I think you would be better to lead Nintendo than Iwata.
I'll add:  get rid of the controller with a screen. (Nintendo can't compete with other Tablets)(Not to mention they *already have* a mobile device: 3DS).


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 4, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> I think you would be better to lead Nintendo than Iwata.
> I'll add: get rid of the controller with a screen. (Nintendo can't compete with other Tablets)(Not to mention they *already have* a mobile device: 3DS).


 
Well, I wouldn't say getting RID of it, I actually think it's the only real innovative attraction about the Wii U. 

However, I would go for 2 versions of hardware marketing:

1- A Wii U, with a classic controller with a 50$ - 100$ price drop, in order to increase sales.

2- A Wii U with the new screen controller, more expensive of course.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 4, 2014)

Lots of great feedback here, and that is awesome. Let's keep it going. In the meantime, I'm actually very curious as to where things are heading, so I created a "Part Two" of sorts that goes into their newer forays into the health industry, which are found here:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo-and-health-care-a-continuation.361659/

Let me know what you guys think!


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## kyogre123 (Feb 4, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Well, I wouldn't say getting RID of it, I actually think it's the only real innovative attraction about the Wii U.
> 
> However, I would go for 2 versions of hardware marketing:
> 
> ...


 
If only we could use the 3DS as additional controllers...


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## Ryukouki (Feb 4, 2014)

kyogre123 said:


> If only we could use the 3DS as additional controllers...


 

And that would be a brilliant idea. I kinda don't want to pay extra money for another tablet controller.


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 4, 2014)

kyogre123 said:


> If only we could use the 3DS as additional controllers...


 
True, a very good idea. One that has been mentioned before, and in fact, ever since the PS4 - Vita controlling came possible.

But Nintendo doesn't seem to get it.


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## Flame (Feb 4, 2014)

Nintendo needs to change with the time or others will do what Nintendon't.


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## osirisjem (Feb 4, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> I would go for 2 versions of hardware marketing:
> 1- A Wii U, with a classic controller with a 50$ - 100$ price drop, in order to increase sales.
> 2- A Wii U with the new screen controller, more expensive of course.


 
I think that would _*effectively*_ kill the screen controller.
As people would be unlikely to choose 2 often.
As well, when it's not in 100% of Wii U deployments, people won't develop for it.
Which will make people even less likely to choose option 2.


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 5, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> I think that would _*effectively*_ kill the screen controller.
> As people would be unlikely to choose 2 often.
> As well, when it's not in 100% of Wii U deployments, people won't develop for it.
> Which will make people even less likely to choose option 2.


 
Well maybe.

The issue here is increasing sales.

Because lets face it, the Wii U controller is expensive and it doesn't need to be included. I agree with it, as an optional add-on or upgraded controller you can buy separately.

But to force it, just makes the price higher, and even worse, since its so expensive to produce, Nintendo won't drop the price by much if the controller is included.


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## CathyRina (Feb 5, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Well maybe.
> 
> The issue here is increasing sales.
> 
> ...


 
We already had this bullsh*t with the Nintendo 64 Disk Drive. It didn't sell well and many games that were planned on it needed to be cut in content dramatically. 
Nintendo just needs to create games that shows the full potential of the Gamepad. Up until now they don't know what to start with it them self. 
The only game where me and my friends wanted to use the Gamepad was while playing Rayman Legends.


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 5, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> We already had this bullsh*t with the Nintendo 64 Disk Drive. It didn't sell well and many games that were planned on it needed to be cut in content dramatically.
> Nintendo just needs to create games that shows the full potential of the Gamepad. Up until now they don't know what to start with it them self.
> The only game where me and my friends wanted to use the Gamepad was while playing Rayman Legends.


 
Which takes me back to my original point.

Don't force the controller, especially is it barely has any uses so far. It's unnecessarily making the whole product more expensive.

I think the gamepad as an optional extra, is the better option.


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## CathyRina (Feb 5, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Which takes me back to my original point.
> 
> Don't force the controller, especially is it barely has any uses so far. It's unnecessarily making the whole product more expensive.
> 
> I think the gamepad as an optional extra, is the better option.


 
the point of my last reply was that this additional hardware failed and many games suffered from it.
The Gamepad brings no major advantages with itself so buying one is really pointless. This Hardware would also fail and people wouldn't even bother of programming anything for it. 
so many games would suffer, again.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

Why would anyone want to use the 3DS and it's awful as fuck control scheme as an extra controller?

That's like handing your friend a MadCatz controller. Where half the buttons are broken. And it's covered in rusty nails.


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## CathyRina (Feb 5, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Why would anyone want to use the 3DS and it's awful as fuck control scheme as an extra controller?
> 
> That's like handing your friend a MadCatz controller. Where half the buttons are broken. And it's covered in rusty nails.


 
Or by giving them the Duke.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Or by giving them the Duke.


 

Hey, at least that has two analog sticks.


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## osirisjem (Feb 5, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Nintendo just needs to create games that shows the full potential of the Gamepad.


Like what ?????????????
It's never going to happen.



> Up until now they don't know what to start with it them self.


Don't you think that is a bad sign ?

People can only look at one screen at a time.

The Gamepad is a failed idea.  

In Japan, where they have small rooms and one TV a gamepad might be reasonable.
In my house, we have a room called the Wii Room.


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 5, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> the point of my last reply was that this additional hardware failed and many games suffered from it.
> The Gamepad brings no major advantages with itself so buying one is really pointless. This Hardware would also fail and people wouldn't even bother of programming anything for it.
> so many games would suffer, again.


 
Again, then take it out. Make it an option.

Its much better the *Gamepad failing* than the whole Wii U failing.


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## xwatchmanx (Feb 5, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Why would anyone want to use the 3DS and it's awful as fuck control scheme as an extra controller?
> 
> That's like handing your friend a MadCatz controller. Where half the buttons are broken. And it's covered in rusty nails.


 
The original 3DS is just abysmal thanks to the material used for the buttons and the placement of the dpad. Seriously, games like Kid Icarus: Uprising and any game that used the dpad would leave deep, painful corduroy marks on my fingers after less than an hour of playing. Not to mention that it just flat out doesn't fit an adult male's hand.

I think the XL is just fine, though. Aside from the placement of the dpad, the controls are perfect. And I find that the circle pad replaces the dpad quite well, anyway.


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## CathyRina (Feb 5, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> Again, then take it out. Make it an option.
> 
> Its much better the *Gamepad failing* than the whole Wii U failing.


 
Oh, yeah because making the cheapest next Gen homeconsole cheaper by removing one of the main hardware pieces will definitely boost the sales & kick the competition to oblivion.

Wii U already has the Pro of being cheap. They also sell at a little loss already with the 300€ price (or at least they did, not sure about now). 
I never even considered buying Ouya because it's the cheapest homeconsole out there and I won't make an exception for the Wii U.
Nintendo allowed them self to spend one entire year releasing no games, it's not the fault of the price nor is it the gamepad's fault. It was Nintendo's fault wasting an entire year.


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## mario5555 (Feb 5, 2014)

Joke comment:

They are failing because of Iwata's insatiable appetite for bananas which is bleeding them dry... 

Serious comment:

I've said this elsewhere, Iwata is to blame because he thought they could ride the Wii coat tails and Nintendo got complacent (look at the 3DS's first year) and thought all those owners would come along and support the Wii U blindly (again it is a very stupid name, if people couldn't differentiate between both systems) and support Nintendo like they did in the past.

Secondly Miyamoto is partly to blame (but not solely as I don't think he makes all software decisions) but they have rested on their laurels Pikmin was the last major series they created and backed a lot, sadly even though it has it's fans it didn't turn into the massive hit they were looking for (has Miyamoto lost his golden touch?) 

And on that front, they allow some of their veteran designers to release less than stellar games which hurt the overall properties (Metroid: Other M anyone) and then decide to let the property lie dormant until it's dead again.  Or on the flip side finally release a followup then say well maybe in another 5-10 (or 25 years, so says Kid Icarus).  They leave old and respected IP's dead, don't do enough with fan favorites (F-Zero), and release way too many Mario games giving the all too real impression that they release nothing BUT Mario games, and can you blame anyone for thinking that.

They need to go back reassess their good properties, make games for them, regardless of their potential super success (Nintendo has a bad habit of only releasing and even worse localizing games that will sell 500k or more, and deem anything less than that a massive failure and abandon it)  But as they've seen Fire Emblem has become a important property for them (and one they've unfortunately relegated to handheld purgatory) but it's taken quite a long time for them to see that because the series was a extremely slow burner in sales while people discovered and got to know the game (the high prices of the older localized games didn't help either to reduce that entrance barrier)

They need to give the fans what they want, get more development teams to meet the challenge of current gen development, leave the gimmick based console at the door for a cycle or two, especially if it does NOT enhance the gameplay, (See how MASSIVE motion control gaming is...oh wait) and use their well established legendary stable of IP's in a more effective manner and not let properties languish for 25 years. 

Nintendo needs to get with the times and not rest on their laurels thinking that well enough is good enough, they have the product people want, they just need the manpower to produce it and the ability to know what the fans want and the foresight to give it to them on a platform they want to play it on.


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## RodrigoDavy (Feb 6, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> In my house, we have a room called the Wii Room.


Congratulations!?


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 6, 2014)

mario5555 said:


> Serious comment:
> 
> I've said this elsewhere, Iwata is to blame because he thought they could ride the Wii coat tails and Nintendo got complacent (look at the 3DS's first year) and thought all those owners would come along and support the Wii U blindly (again it is a very stupid name, if people couldn't differentiate between both systems)


 
The reason why they chose to name it "Wii U", to me, is actually very clear.

In my opinion, they chose that name, in order to jump on the "Wii" money maker wagon wheel. In short, they needed a new name for their system, BUT lets not forget the *BIG BUCKS* came from crappy family games.

Since the Wii was so popular and everyone knows what it is (even the non-gamers), the word "Wii" had to be present.

But guess what Nintendo, those days are over. The massive sales due to "Bowling on your living room", are over.

As someone already said here:

"The large majority of casual gamers or recreational gamers (lets not forget this is where the Wii flourished and sold massively), already *HAVE* a family gaming, turn-on-once-a-week, system. It's called a Wii. *They don't need, and won't buy the Wii U*, until it stops working or gets too old"


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> In my house, we have a room called the Wii Room.


 

Do you also have a room where you laugh at poor people and swim in money?

Sorry I'm an average, middle class white American and we have one family room. I mean I have a TV in my room but I don't really use it because the living room one is much better.

Point is saying "The GamePad is dumb because here in North America we have rooms for our consoles" is really fucking dumb. It's a dumb idea for a multitude of reasons, having the "play games on the screen" function is not one of them.


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## VMM (Feb 8, 2014)

stephaniie said:


> nope miss sex symbol .
> 
> most titles on xboom n playstation hasnt survived the console eras . and never three consols eras .
> 
> ...


 

We will probably see some of the PS2 major hits on PS4, having then 3 generations of franchise selling good:
God of War, Ratchet and Clank, GTA, Call of Duty, Mortal Kombat(which has been kicking since arcade era), Battlefield, FIFA,
Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Street Fighter etc


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## Hop2089 (Feb 8, 2014)

I blame the extremist Nintendo fanboys, the ones who have every excuse to defend and justify the mistakes Nintendo makes even though they know that things aren't all sunshine and butterflies.  I see this with folks defending the WiiU having no 3rd party support so much.  Nintendo is seeing the defense of such and aren't addressing most of the issues.  Then it's also Nintendo's fault for not understanding Western gaming in general.


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## Ulieq (Feb 8, 2014)

Do be fair, Wii U name is not to blame.  I mean, at least it is better than Xbox One (which is actually Xbox Three).


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## xwatchmanx (Feb 8, 2014)

Hop2089 said:


> I blame the extremist Nintendo fanboys, the ones who have every excuse to defend and justify the mistakes Nintendo makes even though they know that things aren't all sunshine and butterflies. I see this with folks defending the WiiU having no 3rd party support so much. Nintendo is seeing the defense of such and aren't addressing most of the issues. Then it's also Nintendo's fault for not understanding Western gaming in general.


 
True, but to be fair, you could say that about any of the big three. Every console has its fanboys that will defend every decision no matter what.


Ulieq said:


> Do be fair, Wii U name is not to blame. I mean, at least it is better than Xbox One (which is actually Xbox Three).


 
Not really. The Xbox has held the word "Xbox" in its console names since the beginning (Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One). With Nintendo it's different because every console up through the Wii has held the word "Nintendo" in its name. Even the Wii was generally referred to as "Nintendo Wii." However now you have  the Wii U, which uses the name from a previous system, rather than just Nintendo (id est, "Nintendo U"), and all the casuals are confused and think it's just a gamepad add-on for the original Wii.


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## VMM (Feb 8, 2014)

Hop2089 said:


> I blame the extremist Nintendo fanboys, the ones who have every excuse to defend and justify the mistakes Nintendo makes even though they know that things aren't all sunshine and butterflies. I see this with folks defending the WiiU having no 3rd party support so much. Nintendo is seeing the defense of such and aren't addressing most of the issues. Then it's also Nintendo's fault for not understanding Western gaming in general.


 

There are always fanboys to defend whatever stupid decision a company make, not only videogame companies, it's not hard to find Apple and Samsung fanboys blindly defending every mistake the company makes.
For me, the problem is in how the company deal with the new tendencies, they're stubborn with many factors that have been incorpored by competitors almost a decade ago.
Nintendo online infrastructure is terrible, and Nintendo do not seem to give the appropriate importance to it.
Nintendo still lack an account system, they have limited usage demos, block system, region lock and many other archaic stuff that they've still been doing.
For me, it's time for a new CEO to take over Nintendo, someone younger and with the goal to take the company from it's archaic methodology and make it a company that follow current market tendencies.


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## Ulieq (Feb 8, 2014)

Bottom line.  Nintendo makes awesome games & horrible hardware.  If they just concentrated on their games and brand, they could be Disney.   The entire industry is looking at Nintendo like they are going crazy, and they are.  When your founding family wants out, you know there are internal issues.


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## osirisjem (Feb 10, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Gamepad fan


How many TVs do you have ?

The Average North American home is much bigger than the average Japanese home.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 10, 2014)

osirisjem said:


> How many TVs do you have ?
> 
> The Average North American home is much bigger than the average Japanese home.



Three. One is in my mom's room so I don't use it, one's in my room but it's small and doesn't support HDMI, and then there's the family room one which is what we use.

My point is that the GamePad can be argued to be bad for a lot of reasons, off screen play is not one of them though.


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