# More Shops opens on 14.04.2020 - Maybe the Economy puts Pressure on it ?



## Alexander1970 (Apr 13, 2020)

...or the Human Society is too stupid and has nothing learned ?


https://orf.at/stories/3161688/

Shops open under strict conditions

Most shops in the country have been closed since mid-March. 
On Tuesday there will be a first easing and further business may open.
However, there will also be new editions.

So far, supermarkets, pharmacies, drugstores, pet stores, banks, post offices, cleaning companies and petrol stations have been able to keep them open. On Tuesday, according to the decree of Health Minister Rudolf Anschober (green) car and bicycle workshops, petrol station car washes, building materials, iron and wood trade, pawn shops and trade in precious metals, DIY and garden centers (regardless of size) and smaller dealers - from opticians to cell phone shops to clothing and shoe stores - with a customer area of less than 400 square meters. According to the Chamber of Commerce, around 4,600 shops are allowed to open in Vienna alone - more on wien.ORF.at.

Opening times are limited to 7.40 a.m. to 7 p.m. Retailers who let too many customers into the restaurant have to pay up to 3,600 euros. Large dealers who are not covered by the regulation and open early can be fined up to 30,000 euros. Large outlets in shopping centers, furniture stores and hairdressing salons remain closed. The hotel and hospitality industries also have to wait.

Mask and spacing requirements

As before, the usual minimum distance of one meter applies. Shops up to 400 square meters, which are now allowed to open, must ensure that there is only one customer per 20 square meters. That means, especially in the case of smaller shops or even when there is a high level of demand, customers have to be asked to wait outside until another customer comes out. This has previously been the case in pharmacies, for example.

In addition, there is a general obligation to wear a mask when shopping. Alternatively, a scarf or another “barrier against droplet infection” can be pulled over the mouth and nose. Until now, mouth-nose masks or similar only had to be worn when shopping in supermarkets, from Tuesday this applies to all shops for sellers and customers. The shops do not have to provide protective masks.
Trade laments billions in losses

While virologists are warning that previous successes in the fight against coronavirus could be destroyed by opening stores early, the economy sees a little light at the end of the tunnel. According to a study by the consultancy company Standort + Markt together with the Johannes Kepler University in Linz, retailers lose two to three billion euros per month of closure due to the barriers. The industry-related think tank Agenda Austria even expects retailers to lose 6.7 billion euros last month.
Regulation for "public transport", taxis and carpooling

From Tuesday after Easter, passengers on public transport and taxi passengers, as well as at travel agents such as Uber, must cover their mouths and noses with a mask or scarf. The only exceptions are children up to the age of six. In addition, a distance of at least one meter from other passengers must also be maintained in train stations and "public transport" stations.

There is also a new regulation for carpooling between people who do not live in the same household: These are only permitted with a mask and a meter apart. According to the regulation, a mask requirement at the workplace requires agreement between employer and employee - provided the protective masks are not already prescribed (as is the case in trade).
Police can issue parking tickets

Since Saturday, the police have also been allowed to carry out checks at the "public transport" and in shops, and to collect fines with an administrative fine. Anyone who does not comply with the obligation to wear a mask faces a fine of 25 euros. Incidentally, for all other violations, 50 euros are due. This affects non-compliance with exit restrictions, such as entering quarantined areas or actually closed shops

“Entering public places” remains prohibited. In addition to the five exceptions - emergency, care and help, covering the basic needs of daily life, work and exercise outdoors alone or with roommates - there is now shopping or the use of those services that may already be offered again.
Open federal gardens

With the start of the easing of measures, the 230 of a total of around 12,500 hectares of publicly accessible green spaces in Vienna can be re-entered (to understand: one hectare corresponds to 10,000 square meters). The two percent missing so far are the five federal gardens in Vienna. In front of the long-awaited entrance in Schönbrunn or Augarten, there is still an admission check for potential visitors: This is to prevent overcrowding.

And finally, the regulation also stipulates that weddings (and, as before, funerals) are also considered a “necessary basic need” and therefore justify an exception to the general ban on going out. But both only in the "narrow family circle".
Anschober: "decisive phase"

With the start of the gradual ramp-up of trading on Tuesday, the second stage in the fight against the corona virus began, Anschober said on Monday. He called for the first partial opening to be "moderate and responsible". It is a "decisive phase" that will only show whether the gradual opening can be continued.

"We passed the first phase of the Corona crisis well and achieved our goal of flattening out the high number of new cases with the right measures at the right time and great commitment by the population." The second stage, which begins on Tuesday, will be significantly more difficult According to Anschober: "Despite the gradual opening, we have to keep the number of new cases at a low level." Right now, "everyone has to be part of the solution".

"I urge you to consistently follow all security measures for the first partial opening: strict adherence to the access rules in the shops, minimum distance when waiting for admission, wearing mouth-nose protection in shops and minimum distance and mouth-nose protection also in public transport The health minister said. If you don't have to shop, you should wait a few more days to avoid large crowds, especially the older ones.

Open letter from Kurz for Easter

Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) thanked the Austrian population in an open letter for Easter. "So far Austria has come through this crisis better than many other countries and the reason for it is all of them," said Kurz. At the same time, however, he pointed out that the corona virus would "accompany us for months to come".

It would be "wrong to believe that the virus has been defeated," said the Chancellor in the letter, which is addressed to the "Austrians". Until an effective drug or vaccination is found, the virus will accompany the everyday life of the population - "with successes and setbacks". "Until then, we will do everything we can to gradually approach a new normal," writes the Chancellor. Kurz promised that the federal government would proceed with the "right measure": "With as much freedom as possible, but also as much restriction as necessary."

The measures taken would "demand a lot from us". But the way is "necessary" to prevent "the worst". “Four out of five people infected with corona have no symptoms and therefore do not know that they are sick. However, you can still infect other people for whom the disease may be fatal. That is one reason why the virus is so dangerous for our society. "
Kogler dampens expectations

Vice Chancellor Werner Kogler (Greens) was not optimistic about the duration. It could take a long time for medication or a vaccine to be available, and only then would the situation change suddenly, he told Die Kleine Zeitung. He could "not imagine" that the baths would open in early May. Festivals and major concerts in summer are also difficult to imagine.

Kogler also dampened expectations for tourism: because almost every entry and exit is associated with two-week quarantine. "It is hard for me to imagine that a tourist goes into quarantine for two weeks before the real vacation begins," said Kogler of the "Kleine Zeitung".
Kaiser is considering differentiated startup

The Carinthian governor Peter Kaiser (SPÖ) wants to discuss with the other country heads a differentiated start-up to the usual business. Specifically, something like normal operation could be started earlier in countries, districts or cities with a few infected people in order to then take the experience for other regions with them. Carinthia could be a pioneer.

"First of all, it is an approach that still needs to be discussed with the other governors," Kaiser told media in a video conference on Monday. Carinthia did not want to proceed "solo" - but he wanted to discuss the proposal. In any case, it is also important that things have to get better everywhere, including abroad


----------



## Veho (Apr 13, 2020)

There's nothing wrong with letting businesses that can adhere to safety precautions reopen and work. Some places can't employ or enforce protective measures, but stores should be fine. 

Are you sure the minimum distance is only one meter? Most countries have it at 2 meters (or 6 feet). One meter is practically breathing down the other person's neck.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Apr 13, 2020)

Veho said:


> There's nothing wrong with letting businesses that can adhere to safety precautions reopen and work. Some places can't employ or enforce protective measures, but stores should be fine.
> 
> Are you sure the minimum distance is only one meter? Most countries have it at 2 meters (or 6 feet). One meter is practically breathing down the other person's neck.



I fear they all not know what IS the correct Distance actual....we have mostly "Suggestions" not really "Regulations" in many Cases...
What is a Regulation,what a Suggestion...this goes now 3 Weeks.... nobody really knows which Actions can be punished or not...

And in this constant "Chaos" (Gouverment call it "very well organized") we open now more Shops.....
Congratulations and welcome to the second Virus Wave.....
(By the Way,there is actual still a lack of Mouth Masks..)

Can you imagine what is going on tomorrow in the Hardware Stores ?
The same like before 3-4 Week in the Grocery Stores..
They will kill each other in the fight for the last Violet.

And the Survivors will kill itself then at home,because of no "Practice" in "Home Improvement" after the last 4 Weeks.....all small Tim Taylor´s.

You know me as very positive Guy....and I still believe all is getting good with Time.


But open more Shops now is a little to early....


----------



## notimp (Apr 13, 2020)

You open shops back up, you monitor increases in new infection rates (or in severe infections rates (if these are the only ones you can test at current capacity)), you react accordingly.

Social distancing and early individualized quarantines (thats the App warning model) are the methods for containment.

Shutting down life is suppression (preventing case numbers from exploding acutely).

You want progression of the virus, but with a lower 'dynamic'.

If lets say your entire country is 'mostly cured' - but at a case infection rate like Austria of 1% of population - nothing much is gained, because the pandemic can break out again tomorrow.

Nationwide shutdowns are what you should implement about a week before your medical system is close to peak capacity. If your target is saving as many people as possible.


----------



## notimp (Apr 13, 2020)

For Austria (but interesting for everyone), those are the current numbers:





src: https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000115810293/aktuelle-zahlen-zum-coronavirus

Thats rate of new infections in Austria. (y axis on the right you have case rate doubling in days (log scale))

1,6% growth rate per day means cases double in 44 days.

40% growth rate per day means cases double in 2 days.

One you can manage - the other one you can not.  (You could manage growth rates of about 7% daily for up to three months. Without harsh interventions.)

Here is the issue translated to months:

If you have 100 deaths. At an exponential growthrate of 5% every day, after 3 months you have 8000 deaths. After four months you have 35000 deaths.

So you'd shut the economy down again somewhere around month three..  If that rate remained constant.

But the idea of social distancing measures is to stop exponential progression (one person infecting three others), or at least slow down case doubling rate (new infections) significantly.

edit: Also - we dont know if the exponential growth rate we saw (+40% new infections every day) is strongly dependent a high initial case rate in the entire population (1% in Austria also is just an extrapolation.).

So wait and see, and monitor.


----------



## Pacheko17 (Apr 13, 2020)

In my state here in Brazil, all non-essential businesses are still closed, public transport isn't open, and if you're caught on the street without a mask you're fine upwards of R$30.000 (5.7k US dollars)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Apr 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> For Austria (but interesting for everyone), those are the current numbers:
> So you'd shut the economy down again somewhere around month three..  If that rate remained constant.



Yes one Month....but is was not a Month.Only three Weeks.
But anyway ... it doesn't matter to the Population anymore, they do not remember when it started anyway.
(Remember my Post about "vanishing" Articles... ?) 

It is very clear to see,the "Economy" makes pressure to re-open the "Economy".
How is it explainable,a week ago the Goverment "set" they will not "lower" Restrictions until the End of April and further...

In the Meantime - The Grocery Stores and their Managements praises the incredibly high Sales....

And suddenly......The hardware stores,which were already doing badly before the Corona Crisis are haveing their "Grand opening" tomorrow...

Pawnbrokers and trading in precious metals? What the Hell is this all about ? 
You see.....no coincidence.


----------



## notimp (Apr 14, 2020)

What this is all about is business ventures that are at risk of having to let go of many of their workers (ones that can make a credible claim), where this would lead to a bigger structural problem are slowly getting exemptions, even before you go into a wider retraction of quarantine. 

As long as it is the pawnbroakers and hardware stores, I'd not blame an important business lobby being behind that. 

That seems more like a 'relief' measure for certain businesses - maybe even to relax psychological strain ("what happened to the thing I pawned" and hardware stores being essential to many peoples 'leisure projects'"  ). I'm saying this half jokingly, because I really dont know whats behind that decision exactly (also if thats the case (first time I heard that hardware stores are about to open again)), but lets say it doesnt seem nefarious, or the result of industry pressure (there are bigger industry interest groups than for hardware stores).

Of course I could be wrong. 

Main point being - if that graph above is a metric the government looks at to guide decisions, relaxing curfew restrictions on some small and medium size businesses seems justifiable. 

The whole thing is a learning process anyhow (see how well social distancing works, ...).

Also you are balancing against people starting to protest social isolation and stuff like that. Ergo, political decision.

edit: Fine in Austria for not wearing a facemask is about 25 USD btw.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Apr 14, 2020)

The _*Chamber of Commerce*_ now called for a quick opening for everyone, earlier than planned....

https://steiermark.orf.at/stories/3043918/

Chamber of Commerce calls for earlier opening for everyone

For the first time in four weeks, smaller shops, DIY stores and garden centers opened again on Tuesday under strict conditions. The Chamber of Commerce is now calling for a quick opening for everyone, earlier than planned.

More to say ?


----------



## notimp (Apr 14, 2020)

Now thats lobbying.


----------



## notimp (Apr 15, 2020)

Issue - to only open smaller shops for a while is not constitutional either. 

See: https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000116849288/covid-19-bekaempfung-getretene-grundrechte (german)

Other constitutional missteps so far: Suspending of compensation rights (there will be compensation, just not in adherence with prior law), certain entry and movement restrictions. No recourse for forced quarantines we already talked about.



> Die Frage ist nicht ganz unerheblich, denn ein Teil des Umsatzes ist für die flächenmäßig größeren Anbieter perdu, wenn die gesuchte Bekleidung oder Couch beim kleineren Outlet gefunden wurde. Selbst wenn nun das Argument kommen sollte, dass die Großen es sich eher leisten könnten als die Kleinen, noch etwas auszuharren: Die Missachtung von Prinzipien wie Erwerbsfreiheit und Gleichheitsgrundsatz wird dadurch in keiner Weise legitimiert.
> 
> Derartige Fehltritte haben mittlerweile Tradition und können mit der Dringlichkeit der Corona-Bekämpfung nicht begründet werden. Es geht nicht nur um das hohe Gut des Gesundheitsschutzes, sondern auch um die Grundregeln staatlicher Eingriffe in die Freiheit der Menschen. Dass diese umfassend und rigoros erfolgen, ist nahezu unbestritten. Dass in der Eile Fehler passieren, erscheint verständlich. Dass sich jedoch Verletzungen der Rechtsstaatlichkeit wie ein roter Faden durch die Covid-19-Maßnahmen ziehen – von der Aushebelung der Entschädigungen bis zu den gesetzlich ungedeckten Betretungsverboten –, sollte in einer Demokratie nicht achselzuckend zur Kenntnis genommen werden. Denn die nun gelebte Willkür kann rasch zur Gewohnheit werden.
> 
> Die ist längst in der Exekutive durchgesickert, die – zumindest in Einzelfällen – ihre Handlungsvollmacht zusehends mehr aus Pressekonferenzen denn aus konkreten Bestimmungen abzuleiten scheint. Strafen für das Sitzen auf der Parkbank sollten ein Alarmzeichen sein. Mit Füßen getretene Grundrechte nicht minder. (Andreas Schnauder, 14.4.2020)


Schnauder is a business section reporter of derstandard (center left newspaper), so not a business 'lobbyist'.


----------



## WarioWaffles (Apr 18, 2020)

Pacheko17 said:


> In my state here in Brazil, all non-essential businesses are still closed, public transport isn't open, and if you're caught on the street without a mask you're fine upwards of R$30.000 (5.7k US dollars)



Is that for real?? 6 grand fine for being outside without a mask? Where can people even get masks these days.


----------



## Pacheko17 (Apr 19, 2020)

WarioWaffles said:


> Is that for real?? 6 grand fine for being outside without a mask? Where can people even get masks these days.



It's for real and it's justified. You can get masks literally everywhere, supermarkets or pharmacies, they're everywhere.


----------



## notimp (Apr 20, 2020)

Pacheko17 said:


> It's for real and it's justified. You can get masks literally everywhere, supermarkets or pharmacies, they're everywhere.


Depending on your region.

(Actually mostly on how rich your country is and how good its political relations witch china are. 
US has lost the monopoly of 'helping other countries in times of crisis' on this one - everyone is looking to china (goods production), and they are using that politically as well..  )

But yes - in all countries where masks are mandatory in daily life - they HAVE to be handed out for free, in mass quantities, or the entire strategy doesnt work.

Strategy for those masks isnt individual protection (as with N95 grade masks), but slowing down spread, without having to rely on curfews (reopening your society and economy) - so its more about you protecting others, than you protecting yourself. Also it only works well, if literally close to everyone has to use them, and has access to them almost for free. Because if poorer people cant - they cant protect others and little is gained.

So there never will be a case where a government will be making masks mandatory, but people wouldnt get them for free (or very cheap (think 1 US dollar) - this is mostly used if you see people throwing them away 'because they were free' so you have them pay for them - and their relationship with the product changes..  ).

edit: Also (non N95(+), cloth) masks can be washed and then reused. 60°C (140° Fahrenheit) should be enough, use laundry detergent as well.   You wash them as soon as you are done wearing them.

Ideally masks also shouldnt be worn for more than 30 minutes (thats something not to get obsessive about..  ), because as they become damp by your breathing through them for a long time, they loose some of their effectiveness.

Also - they work wonderfully as a signal to others to keep a 5 feet distance.. 





Why you want to keep 5 feet distance has to do with mucus partical (/virus) behavior in air - see:

(But this is REALLY nerding out.  You dont need to get into this one...  )


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Apr 22, 2020)

Hospitals are prepared. The only way for the Coronavirus to stop is to let a large enough amount of people to get it and get over it so that so few people are vulnerable that there's less than a .1% chance of another spike.


----------



## WarioWaffles (Apr 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Hospitals are prepared. The only way for the Coronavirus to stop is to let a large enough amount of people to get it and get over it so that so few people are vulnerable that there's less than a .1% chance of another spike.



That's assuming that antibodies are strong and persistent, and assuming that the virus doesn't mutate enough to make the antibodies of a recovered person useless.


----------



## Alexander1970 (May 14, 2020)

Well,that was not so a great Idea from Chancellor Kurz....



The Reaction from Politics,Cultural Department and from the Austrian Population was not great......


----------



## Alexander1970 (May 24, 2020)

After Kurz´s Faux pas the next Politican...
This Time our Big Boss....

But, we the rabble, should please adhere to the rules .....

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3050109/

Van der Bellen after CoV curfew in local

Federal President Alexander Van der Bellen and his wife Doris Schmidauer were caught by police at night almost one and a half hours after the prescribed Corona Virus curfew in the garden of an Italian pub in the city center.

The Vienna police confirmed a corresponding report on Krone.at on Sunday afternoon. According to the report, the two prominent guests also had drinks on the table during the routine police check-up at 0.18 a.m. - which, according to Covid 19 law, is prohibited after 11 p.m.

This could have expensive consequences for the host. For violations of the Covid 19 measure laws, restaurateurs - for example, keeping open after 11:00 p.m. - are subject to a fine of up to 30,000 euros. Officially, the restaurant was already closed at this point.
"I chatted away"

Police spokesman Patrick Maierhofer confirmed the operation on Sunday. "Media reports confirming that one of the people found in the sidewalk garden of a bar in downtown Vienna is the Federal President." A report regarding the facts had been written and forwarded to the responsible magistrate for legal assessment.

Van der Bellen himself admitted the mistake and was remorseful on Sunday. "I went out to eat for the first time since the 'lock-down' with two friends and my wife. We then chatted and unfortunately missed the time, ”he apologized. "I am truly sorry. It was a mistake, ”said Van der Bellen.
Critique by FPÖ

The FPÖ has no understanding of the President's nightly visit to the garden. "In this way, the head of state mocks the population, who is severely plagued by the government's corona madness, who adheres to the black and green rules, no matter how nonsensical," FPÖ general secretary Michael Schnedlitz said in a press release.



Why only the Landlord get Consequences ??????

Not funny anymore.....


----------



## notimp (May 24, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> But, we the rabble, should please adhere to the rules .....


No, dont go that route, please. 

For people to ignore social distancing rules - any concept is more likely than 'I'm famous or important, so it doesnt apply to me'. If you are that rational or that much in search of an excuse for your behavior or wants, question the authority principal that makes you think that way first.

And by that I dont mean 'but higher up guy or gal dit it wrong also, so I dont have to believe in it either', because thats a lemmings style dichotomy. (One thing, or the other = dichotomy). You feeling morally better, because they didnt behave according to some values.

Learn to break some rules yourself. (Start small.  )

The easiest way out of that dilemma is to acknowledge, that all rules are there to be broken, but at the same time also serve a purpose. Dont get ruled by Dogma ("'tis is so"), have fun exploring that anything in excess becomes problematic, just the same as imposing too many restrictions on stuff does.


Here is an aspect I find really problematic (but not overly so..  ), having an interior minister, that lies to people, that they only are allowed to go outside for four or five specific reasons - leaving out that 'going outside, when you need to vent, or just a stroll in the park' never was prohibited. Society just said, please reduce it overall.

So if you make up rules that are not enforceable, that arent covered by your legal system, just so you can appear like a good autocratic leader in public, so the pubic might fall in love with you asserting dominance - then you need to vanish from the top positions in government.

If you go against rules you yourself helped impose, thats only human.. 


Which by the way is part of why we leave the 'private sphere' out of politics. If 'acting as an example' value signaling becomes too looked after, you end up with SJW societies.. Or an NSA spying on then entire world including americans, or...

Every politician lies at times, every politician supposedly acts in their self interest at times, and every politician acts irrational at times. Dont hang them for not being rolemodels that never do.

In fact, if you never bend rules that way, get out of any higher office, or higher management, because the 'puritan' ethos also comes with a bunch of drawbacks.


In the case of Kurz another aspect was attacked by the opposition, and that is that Kurz exhibited that behavior during an election campaign event. So it is pretty obvious, that much of that was 'planned' to generate a certain outcome (f.e. public adoration), conflicting with the general ruleset they gave out during corona, for a political benefit. You can criticize that.

VdB currently is not looking for votes in that sense. So when he ignores some rules, it should fall under 'private behavior' in this case and should be exempt from political criticism.

If police had cought anyone else in that situation, they wouldnt have arrested them either. (Important for the argument I'm making.)


----------



## notimp (May 24, 2020)

Drawback of puritan ethos at 8min58sec in this video:


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jun 30, 2020)

As feared,"reopening" and lowering Restrictions was too soon....not of the Government,but because of the Stupidity and Carelessness form our People in Austria...

and more will come...

https://gbatemp.net/threads/formula-1.531461/page-21#post-9112884


----------



## notimp (Jun 30, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> As feared,"reopening" and lowering Restrictions was too soon....not of the Government,but because of the Stupidity and Carelessness form our People in Austria...


In Austria? No.

In Austria the case number was so low, that it almost didnt make sense to start with the percent calculations..  In Austria, if anything the harm produced by the general shut down arguably is greater than the gain. You had to though, because you couldnt know at the time you had to decide.

Here use this and daily new infection rate to track it. If you don't see 'hockey stick' - like new infection rate developments, we are good for a while.





https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/

(Less than 1% increase in daily new infections would be much preferable in addition.  )

The news you posted is just part of monitoring, and tells politics, when to remind citicens 'not to fuck it up'. 

Thats just part of the constant feedback. Shortly after a curfew it should be expected that people want to act 'more carefree' than they should, you have to see how that develops, and then maybe demand that people wear masks in supermarkets again, or layer in other measures.
-

edit: Currently infected is 551 according to data, lets double that for good measure and say 1000 people, even if that number increased by 1% every day for two years, and never fell, we'd be good (1.3 million infected).  (Stupid and unlikely scenario.)

edit2: Here look at daily new cases:
If you see that:




https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china-hong-kong-sar/ you do something.

If you see that:




https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/
- you dont. (at least for quite a while).


----------



## notimp (Jun 30, 2020)

And if you are the US you ask yourself, when the heck you reach peak, or sufficient test capacity is available..  (You are expected to reach peak in July or August, or were before the mass protests.)




src: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Remember Trump 'we dont want to test, because the more we test the higher the numbers get?' - yeah.. 
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/me...ore-people-means-a-higher-case-count-for-u-s/


Looking at the testing mismatch in the US - Austrias peak daily new infection rate is at 1.5k, the US one is at 45k, thats a difference of 30x. Difference in population size is 36x. - so maybe they are ramping up testing capacity now, that they want to know, when they reach peak (Juli August, later?)? *googlegoogle* -- No. 
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health...why-us-is-struggling-with-coronavirus-testing


----------



## notimp (Jun 30, 2020)

Ahm - not good... US ramped up testing capacity from mid march to mid june, then stayed there.









So the entire ramp up you see in daily new infections in the US recently, is at a stable testing capacity. *nggg*





src: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

edit: Lets think this further.. 
At a stable testing capacity which according to the pbs article Harvard has called 3x too low. So lets take peak today times three (45x3=135k) and compare that with Austrias peak of 1.5k, thats 90x larger, while population difference is only 36x, and while the US likely hasnt reached peak, and while the width of the daily new cases bell curve likely will be wider than the one in austria (curfew compliance in austria was great, in the US - not).

So the Covid-19 outbreak should be at least 3x worse in in the US.

Lets look at death figures in comparison: 129000/703=183 expected difference would be again 36x but it is 183x, which is a factor of five.

So the Covid Crisis in the US currently is at least 3-5x worse?  High margin of error throughout this calculation..  And thats 'overall' because looking at today only, Austria already is at the 'petering out' stage, US hasnt even reached peak yet...


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jun 30, 2020)

We will see.....
My "personal" Prediction is a second and bigger Outbreak/Wave (also a Lock Down again) in the next 2 Weeks in Austria.

And I really pray to God I am totally wrong....


----------



## notimp (Jun 30, 2020)

What I've heard in terms of expert murmurings is that second curfew should not be required at any time in the next two years in neither austria or germany.

Austria is easing restrictions as we speak - while doing that public fingerweaving thing of "dont you forget"..  (That should be postering/nudging - so that the population doesnt get careless.)

See: https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000118399621/besuchsverordnung-in-wiens-pflegeheimen-bleibt-streng


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jun 30, 2020)

This Week the Holidays starts...
On Sunday we "must" have the F1 Grand Prix with 100s of People from "outside"....
The "Public Parties" on Beaches/River Banks and so on getting more an more....
"Keep Distance" ?? -> no longer,it is very funny to see how Customers in Shops search for "Cuddle contact" on the Cashdesk...
People who still wearing Masks are often laughed at or "fooled behind the Hand".....(very mature by the Way.....)
Remember like in January the Austrian (ORF) Media did about China......

No,we did not have learned anything from this....
And it will happen again soon...we are too dumb.....


----------



## notimp (Jun 30, 2020)

Yes, but risks are known. Large events only get permissions if they produce a 'Covid19 strategy' (so only masks or social distancing space, and with number limits). For public beaches I havent looked up how it is handled, but I presume they also will disperse crowds there, when they become too many. (People then remember that and not go to the beach the next day..  )

Its not back to normal - its this strange controlled thing, where we try to find the correct amount of openness.

I'm positive, that at some point within the next two years some measures might be reinstated (if only to remind the public, that it isnt over yet), but that isnt back to curfews yet.

Also remember that people working in closed rooms has been a bigger issue for contagion, than beach parties, so its all relative..  Also for austria absolute case numbers have been really really low - antibody tests have confirmed that. Official case number is 0.2% of the population, double that for good measure to 0.4% - but that was before the curfew. Looking at current active cases in country (thats the 550 value above) and doubling that, its 0.01% (so one infected person in 1000).

If one of them infects three people (which they shouldnt, because meassures) during the entire duration of his/her illness - we then have what? 3.000 more cases in Austria in 2 weeks?  And even that is unlikely, because most of them should/will be self isolating. What I'm saying is that the absolute number in Austria is so low, that worst case scenario, we still get a month or two of shooting the breeze before we'd have to do anything..  And we are not doing nothing at the moment, so new infection rate shouldnt be growing exponentially, and as soon as we push reproduction number below 1 (if half of the people that have Covid-19 self isolate, reproduction number should move from 3 closer to 1.5 on that alone), we have exponential decline. 

So for austria the entire thing should be more than managable from now on. Its just not back to normal quite yet, and probably also not for the next 2 years. But close to it - if we keep following social distancing guidelines.

Lets see if I am wrong and something unexpected happens.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jun 30, 2020)

As said,I really hope I am wrong.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 5, 2020)

A little Update from little Austria:
https://orf.at/stories/3172325/
The number of sufferers rose again by three figures
According to current data from the Ministry of Health (as of today, 11:00 a.m.), the number of people suffering from an infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus rose by 106 compared to the previous day - and is currently 959.

Not really a "big" Cluster...
https://ooe.orf.at/stories/3056500/
Abattoirs in Upper Austria CoV positive
An outbreak of the corona virus has affected three large meat processing companies in the districts of Ried, Wels-Land and Braunau with a total of twelve infected.

And in Spielberg they all wear bravely their Mouthmasks correct and disciplined.


   ooops,wrong Picture,sorry......

And my local Burger King is closed since last Monday ("technical Issues...)
...no Statement from Burger King or the local Magistrate until today......


As in a very well known austrian Christmas Song......."All is calm,all is bright...."





And please be careful in these Days,to draw other People attention to "Keep your distance".....

https://ooe.orf.at/stories/3056512/
Controversy over distance: pensioner injured
A 73-year-old was attacked and seriously injured by an unknown person after a dispute over the safety distance according to the Covid 19 rules in the parking lot of a food discounter in Ried.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 5, 2020)

In Upper Austria the Restrictions getting again "stronger"...

https://orf.at/stories/3172349/

Measures in the fight against the corona virus are being tightened in Upper Austria. Specifically, the mask requirement will be reintroduced in the country's official buildings. The reason is the large number of new infections, and there are now also first cases in slaughterhouses. Upper Austria also becomes a laboratory for regional tightening after the loosening.

From Tuesday, July 7th, mouth-nose protection must be worn again in all official buildings in the state of Upper Austria. Governor Thomas Stelzer (ÖVP) announced this in a press release on Sunday. It had become known a few hours earlier that CoV infections had also been found in three Upper Austrian slaughterhouses.

Stelzer also called on the cities and municipalities to follow the example and to temporarily reintroduce the mask requirement in their areas of activity. In Upper Austria there was again a large increase in coronavirus infections over the weekend. On Sunday, 359 people were actively ill.
People with protective masks on the street
debate
What can Austria expect in autumn?

Clusters and school closings
A few days before, it had become public that there was an infection cluster around a free church. As a result, schools and childcare facilities were closed in the districts of Linz, Linz-Land, Wels, Wels-Land and Urfahr-Umgebung. And now the country-wide measures will be imposed.

Stelzer justified the order, particularly in district capitals and offices with citizen service and a particularly large number of personal contacts.


Really learned from the Past....


----------



## Hanafuda (Jul 5, 2020)

Has anyone noticed that back in March the news was how many Covid-19 deaths were taking place, but now the news is how many new cases there are? I mean, if you read the news you'd think it was horrendously bad out there ... so many records being broken daily for the number of new cases. Holy Shit!!!

The media isn't looking into whether hospitalizations have increased though, or checking up on how many Covid-19 related deaths are taking place now. Either that, or they're not telling us for some reason? Naw, couldn't be. I mean, why wouldn't they want the public to know good news like that?

Total number of Covid-19 related deaths in the USA, week of 04/11-04/18, 2020: *16,373*

Total number of Covid-19 related deaths in the USA, week of 06/20-06/27, 2020: *313*

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 6, 2020)

Nobody wants good News today from the Medias.


----------



## omgcat (Jul 6, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Has anyone noticed that back in March the news was how many Covid-19 deaths were taking place, but now the news is how many new cases there are? I mean, if you read the news you'd think it was horrendously bad out there ... so many records being broken daily for the number of new cases. Holy Shit!!!
> 
> The media isn't looking into whether hospitalizations have increased though, or checking up on how many Covid-19 related deaths are taking place now. Either that, or they're not telling us for some reason? Naw, couldn't be. I mean, why wouldn't they want the public to know good news like that?
> 
> ...




people are sitting in the ICU's for 2-3 months before dying now. Another issue is as the ICU capacities overfill, standard emergencies become death sentences, stroke? too bad full ICU. bad childbirth scenario? 1 if not 2 deaths because filled up ICU. bad car accident? too fucking bad we filled our ICU's with an easily preventable illness. That is why it's about how many new cases.
https://www.abc15.com/news/coronavi...arizona-152-medical-personnel-sent-in-to-help
https://www.abc15.com/news/coronavi...arizona-152-medical-personnel-sent-in-to-help

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2020/07/05/4-pinellas-county-hospitals-report-full-icus

anyone with an above room temp IQ can see that we have at least 3-4 weeks of exponential growth locked in because of wishy washy i don't wanna wear the mask non-sense, on top of random house parties, and 1000+ people conventions with no social distancing and mask requirements.


----------



## notimp (Jul 6, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Has anyone noticed that back in March the news was how many Covid-19 deaths were taking place, but now the news is how many new cases there are? I mean, if you read the news you'd think it was horrendously bad out there ... so many records being broken daily for the number of new cases. Holy Shit!!!


I believe this is the graph you are looking for.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-med...r-the-coronavirus.559721/page-14#post-9103404

Also you look at daily new infections first, death rate increase then follows in 14days to 2 months..  US currently is seeing an exponential growthrate again in terms of new cases. 

Difference in death figures, is hard to tell, maybe 50k more over the year..  (Thats a spitballed number..  )


----------



## Hanafuda (Jul 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> I believe this is the graph you are looking for.
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-med...r-the-coronavirus.559721/page-14#post-9103404
> 
> Also you look at daily new infections first, death rate increase then follows in 14days to 2 months..  US currently is seeing an exponential growthrate again in terms of new cases.
> ...




Yeah but that graph shows total global deaths as a running tally, not the death _rate_ as time has passed. And, there may be other places in the world where the progress of the virus is just beginning to hit its peak, but that wave has already crashed in North America. 16,000 deaths in one week in April, but just over 300 deaths in a week in late June. The virus is losing its bite. If we were considering the human race as one big organism, we should all be wallowing in Covid-19 right now, at least the northern hemisphere, to force exposure and build herd immunity during deep summer while our immune response is best. Instead local governments keep us cowering indoors with masks on. Why?? So the "second wave" can hit just in time for the election? Yes, I do believe such a thing could be in their minds. Look at how Cuomo and DeBlasio handled NY and are now getting treated like heroes by the left ... they definitely have no problem using lives as ammo.




omgcat said:


> people are sitting in the ICU's for 2-3 months before dying now. Another issue is as the ICU capacities overfill, standard emergencies become death sentences, stroke? too bad full ICU. bad childbirth scenario? 1 if not 2 deaths because filled up ICU. bad car accident? too fucking bad we filled our ICU's with an easily preventable illness. That is why it's about how many new cases.
> https://www.abc15.com/news/coronavi...arizona-152-medical-personnel-sent-in-to-help
> 
> https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2020/07/05/4-pinellas-county-hospitals-report-full-icus
> ...



You forgot to mention the tens of thousands of rioters in the streets partying looting burning every night for the last month+. 

Also, beware the semantics of hospital administrators. There's "full", then there's "ok really full," and then there's "we mean it this time, we're full." And even then they're not really "full." Follow the money.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...w-icu-capacity-reported-in-houston-criticized



> Dr. James McDeavitt is senior vice president and dean of clinical affairs at Baylor College of Medicine, which is one of the member institutions within the medical center. He said the way the data was presented didn't provide a complete picture of ICU capacity.
> 
> “Not to minimize the fact that we’re getting stressed at hospitals, but that was the wrong message for people to take away. I think that was the underlying concern because we had plenty of capacity,” McDeavitt said Wednesday.
> 
> ...


----------



## notimp (Jul 6, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Yeah but that graph shows total global deaths as a running tally, not the death _rate_ as time has passed. And, there may be other places in the world where the progress of the virus is just beginning to hit its peak, but that wave has already crashed in North America. 16,000 deaths in one week in April, but just over 300 deaths in a week in late June. The virus is losing its bite.


Mostly true. 

I posted the graph to add a comparison to have it in some relation to other illnesses. Most of the world should actually be over the peak already (at least for this years strain..  ), while the US was expected to hit it in august. (Not sure how the latest rise plays into that).

Wrong mostly on 'virus is loosing its bite'. Virus is the same as it ever was.  Mostly 2-10% of population were affected at most, and before 60% you arent seeing statistical changes in propagation on its own. True that people working outside in warm weather slows it down. (Part of why meat processing plants are so highly affected all over the world is believed to be related to the low temperatures). But that we see it slowing down so much is mostly due to curfews and people changing behavior. Ohn and fewer people should die from it by now (roughly a third less) because we have some treatments that work.

At the beginning you had a fairly high number of cases (presumably) in your population and needed to move that to as close to zero as possible, thats what the curfews were good for. It really was the only thing that worked for that purpose. So the result of the virus becoming less prominent was actually caused by those curfews (behavior changes (wash hands, wear masks)).

Now if your number became really low - you now reap math benefits.  But if your number never really got that low, you dont.  In the US the infection numbers increasing exponentially again, certainly is not the best of signs.. 

Reason why media focused mostly on the deaths at first was, because scary stories sell, and you had no clue about infection numbers (test capacity was ramping up), and deaths were easier to count, and also support for medical institutions had to be developed.

Why they asre now focusing on daily new infections ist because the number there changed dramatically. But that doesnt mean that there will be less deaths there, they just are delayed.. 

In other countries they are focusing on daily new infections, because its the number that shows trends amplified and early, so - when you are monitoring, what to do with a country coming out of a curfew, you are looking at that.

Looking at death figures simple would be 'a month late' for no reason.

US could still add about 100k more deaths to its official figures over the year, but that should be roughly the amount you are dealing with, Probably even less. But its still a third of your deaths so far...


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 7, 2020)

Mouthmask Restriction again in Upper Austria:
https://orf.at/stories/3172600/

In shops, shopping centers and service providers, customers and employees alike must wear mouth-to-nose protection and maintain a safe distance. In restaurants, guests must wear a mask again on the way to and from the table. This is not mandatory at the table, where up to ten people can sit. The personnel must also put on mouth and nose protection.

In schools and kindergartens as well as in childcare facilities, the state is also returning to the "old, well-known rules", added Deputy Governor Haberlander. This means that from Thursday there is a mask requirement in the school building, the protection may only be removed at the seat. In kindergartens it applies that when the child is brought and brought, the person in question must be protected.

Keep a safe distance outdoors. If this is not possible, a mask must also be used. "We believe that we can curb the growth of the disease again," said Stelzer. The mask regulation comes into force without time limit. A feeling of normalcy crept in with many. "But we are still in the middle of Corona." Now "_*what many predicted*_" had occurred.


Really ? I am surprised......


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 8, 2020)

Carinthia is next - "preventive measure"

https://orf.at/stories/3172750/

Mask requirement in Carinthian holiday resorts

The government of Carinthia announced on Wednesday that it would be mandatory to wear a mask for tourism hotspots for a limited period of time. The regulation, which is currently being drafted, is due to enter into force on Friday. In Velden and other locations on Lake Wörthersee, Faaker See and Klopeinersee, mouth-nose protection must be worn from 9:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m.

The area of validity should be determined in good time by the responsible district authorities in consultation with tourists, it was said. As of Tuesday at 11 p.m., there were 14 coronavirus cases in Carinthia.

Impressive appeals were not enough to prevent crowds in which a lot happens, just not taking care of distance and hygiene measures, Tourism Minister Sebastian Schuschnig (ÖVP) said in a video conference with journalists.

He said it was a preventive measure. "Velden should not become summer Ischgl." The turmoil in the tourist resorts, especially on Lake Wörthersee, has been occupying authorities, restaurateurs and residents for weeks - more about this in kaernten.ORF.at.


#####################################################################


https://orf.at/stories/3172745/

More border controls and travel warnings

In view of the increasing number of coronavirus infections caused by returnees from abroad, the government is issuing further travel warnings and tightening border controls in the east. The government strongly advises against trips to Romania, Bulgaria and the Republic of Moldova, said Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) in the press foyer after the Council of Ministers on Wednesday.

The situation regarding Covid-19 had unfortunately worsened in the Balkans, and there were more and more cases of infections brought in from the East in Austria. "We are experiencing more and more introductions from abroad. Therefore, the urgent appeal not to travel to these countries, ”said Kurz. A 14-day quarantine obligation continues to apply to returnees from countries for which there is a travel warning.

Anyone who violates this is not committing a trivial offense, but a serious violation and risking a fine of up to 1,450 euros. Those who test positive and break the quarantine are committing a criminal offense and must face significantly more severe penalties, Kurz said. Kurz announced that there would also be stricter controls on the provisions imposed, and border controls in the east would be doubled. "In particular, returnees from the Balkans will be checked." 1,800 police officers will be deployed.


----------



## notimp (Jul 8, 2020)

Serbia retracted curfews too fast:
https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...reitungen-bei-protesten-gegen-ausgangssperren (german)

- and now has revolts in the streets, because they have to go into another set of curfews. People are angry, that this means another set of lost jobs.

Daily new infection curves if you are interested:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/serbia/

(If you google Aleksandar Vučić you can see Serbias prime minister fighting with tears during the press conference, although why would you..)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Serbia retracted curfews too fast:
> https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...reitungen-bei-protesten-gegen-ausgangssperren (germany)
> 
> - and now has revolts in the streets, because they have to go into another set of curfews. People are angry, that this means another set of lost jobs.



In Austria the "Violent crimes" and firearm incidents/murders are on the rise at the Moment.....


----------



## notimp (Jul 8, 2020)

Lets not focus on the negative.  Covid-19 new infections arent.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Lets not focus on the negative.  Covid-19 new infections arent.


Yes of course,these are two independent Things and has nothing to do with each others Topic....


----------



## notimp (Jul 8, 2020)

In Serbia Covid-19 official numbers were underreported, and apparently this is the media platform that made it public - if you want to read it. 
https://balkaninsight.com/2020/06/2...ed-covid-19-deaths-and-infections-data-shows/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 9, 2020)

In the City of Salzburg again Mouthmasks in Authority Buildings

https://orf.at/stories/3172900/

The city of Salzburg reintroduces the mask requirement in some official buildings. It is said in a broadcast that it is about the highly frequented offices and those with many customers from the Western Balkans. In addition, the protective measures in the senior homes are tightened again.

The obligation to wear a mask applies immediately to the official building at Schwarzstrasse 44 with the health office, trade office and foreigners authority. There is also a sensitive customer traffic from the Western Balkans, for which there are again travel warnings, it says in the broadcast. The obligation to wear a mask also applies in the official areas of the Kiesel building, for example in the residential service, child and youth welfare or the registration service.

The head of the municipal district administration authority, Michael Haybäck says: "Since we expect an increasing number of infected people, the city of Salzburg is increasing the protective measures". The head of the municipal district administration authority, Michael Haybäck says: "Since we expect an increasing number of infected people, the city of Salzburg is increasing the protective measures".

As of Thursday midday, 43 CoV cases were reported to the authorities in the state, 24 of them in the city of Salzburg.

Plague carpets for senior citizens' homes

The protective measures in the city's senior homes are gradually tightened. Haybäck and Patrick Pfeifenberger, head of the social department, have agreed this. In addition to the mandatory mask and the visit log, epidemic carpets, i.e. mats soaked with disinfectant, are used again at the entrance. Access controls and visitor restrictions will be intensified. So far, no Covid infection has been reported in the six urban senior housing.
Home quarantine after a trip to the Balkans

Haybäck also draws attention to the current federal entry regulation, according to which people from some Balkan countries must immediately start a 14-day self-monitored home quarantine unless they have a current, negative coronavirus test.

What is also important to Mention,"many" infectetd People came from outside Austria - back from "Holidays".....



Spoiler: Personal Note about "Holidays"...



I see many "Persons" they leave Austria this Week/Weekend for Holidays in different Countries - with the Argument "
I don't care, I'm now going on my well-deserved vacation"
.....I could not believed it,but this ignorance and stupidity can still be surpassed...


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 13, 2020)

If it is not inside Austria then we make it outside.People are so unreasonable.
https://orf.at/stories/3173350/

(It is pretty sure these are not only the Germans.....)

Few masks, hardly any distance: Pictures from Mallorca's party strongholds are currently causing a stir - also across the Spanish borders. Because hundreds of British and German holidaymakers are said to have hardly followed the corona virus precautionary measures when celebrating. "We have to be very careful not to make Ballermann a second Ischgl," said German Health Minister Jens Spahn (CDU).

"Chaos", headlined the regional newspaper "Ultima Hora" on Sunday with reference to pictures of crowds crowded together in front of the bars on Playa del Palma. The "Mallorca Zeitung" published a video the day before that shows people on Friday evening on the famous "Bierstrasse" in the dense crowds while partying, drinking and dancing - "as if there was no corona," says the "MZ".

The pictures from the weekend would have worried him, Spahn said on Monday. There are rules that should be observed. “Wherever people celebrate, the risk of infection is particularly high,” warned Spahn. If the holidaymakers then return home, there is a risk of infection on the plane and at home. That was to prevent together "especially in travel and vacation times". “The danger of a second wave is real. We should remain vigilant and should not be cocky. "

"I don't understand this type of tourist"

"I do not understand these types of tourists who come here and pretend that nothing has ever happened," Frank Winkler, spokesman for the neighborhood association Playa de Palma, is quoted by the ARD "Tagesschau". "It's just irresponsible. And of course that also leaves the Germans in a very bad light. ”

Those pictures would also hinder efforts by the tourism industry and the government of the Balearic Islands, which is critical of drinking tourism: "We have worked hard in recent years so that such excesses do not repeat themselves," said Pepe Tirado, President of the Association of Tourism Entrepreneurs in Mallorca ACOTUR, on Mallorcan TV.

Meanwhile there were similar scenes not only at Ballermann, but also in other parts of the island. For example, according to the media, in Magaluf, which is particularly popular with British people, west of the island's capital, where party holidaymakers danced on parked cars and caused considerable damage to property. There have been some arrests here, according to Ultima Hora.

Regional government approved penalty catalog

The regional government in Palma had only decided on Friday, after the first illegal, but still much smaller parties in bars and parks, a penalty catalog with fines of up to 600,000 euros for violations while celebrating - and also announced increased controls. The Balearic Islands opened their borders to foreign tourists in mid-June.

However, the police hardly showed up at Ballermann for the time being, the "MZ" noted. Hardly anyone had observed the minimum distance of one and a half meters prescribed by the Spanish government, and some people who wore a mask were laughed at, some media also reported. According to the "Mallorca Zeitung", the scenes showed "how great the risk of a second corona wave in Mallorca could be". The risk of infection outdoors has been classified by experts as rather low.


Preparation for extensive mask requirements

Meanwhile, on Mallorca and the other Balearic Islands, an extensive mask requirement comes into force on Monday. The authorities are thus following the example of Catalonia and Extremadura. There, wearing a mask over your mouth and nose is practically mandatory everywhere outside your own four walls, even if you can keep a safe distance from other people.

La Rioja, Navarre and Asturias are also preparing such a mask requirement. For the Balearic Islands, the corresponding regulation should be published in the regional law gazette on Monday and take effect immediately, Spanish media reported. Those who do not adhere to the mask requirement risk a fine of 100 euros. In the first few days, however, there should initially only be warnings.


----------



## notimp (Jul 13, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> "I don't understand this type of tourist"
> 
> "I do not understand these types of tourists who come here and pretend that nothing has ever happened," Frank Winkler, spokesman for the neighborhood association Playa de Palma, is quoted by the ARD "Tagesschau". "It's just irresponsible. And of course that also leaves the Germans in a very bad light. ”


While entirely understandable and rectified, there is another angle to this.  Palma wanted to 'phase out' that type of tourism for a long time..  I believe recently even the royals in those parts had a photoshooting OP to help with the 'reimagining' of Palma to become another type of tourist destination..

That said, drinking cheap wine out of buckets, and foam parties, probably not so good for Covid-19 either.. 

(This is mainly me gossiping..  Pay no attention.  )

edit: see f.e.: https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-...o-mallorca-to-promote-new-normality-in-spain/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 14, 2020)

_"Masks are again modern and on everyone's lips"

https://orf.at/stories/3173559/
_
A return to the obligation to wear a mask in retail is again in the offing in Austria. In the delicatessen at Billa and Merkur, employees have been wearing mouth-nose protection since last week, a spokesman for the REWE retail group confirmed. This could also be imminent for customers. The industry expressed understanding, although it conceded that this was also accompanied by a drop in sales and frequency.

Since the reintroduction of the mask requirement in Upper Austria, sales and frequency have decreased by up to 25 percent compared to the beginning of July, according to the trade association. But retailers understand: "Health comes first and is above everything else."
For Kogler "worth considering"

For Vice Chancellor Werner Kogler (Greens), a return to the requirement to wear a mask in supermarkets, as recently demanded by SPÖ leader Pamela Rendi-Wagner, "is certainly a proposal worth considering," said Kogler today.

“The domestic dealers will of course continue to comply with the official requirements. Individual political opinions are of course permissible, but not binding for us as an industry, ”said the trade association.


In the Meantime in Salzburg:

Police inspections as a new CoV infection cluster

In the city of Salzburg, the health authority is reporting a new corona cluster. It is about officials from the two police inspections, Hauptbahnhof and Itzling. According to official information, three police officers are currently infected.

At the police station inspection there should be two, a third policeman joins the Itzling inspection. However, one does not yet know the so-called index person from whom the infection started, says city police commandant Manfred Lindenthaler. 70 men and women of the executive will be tested on Tuesday. Until when the results are available, that is still unclear.
Both inspections closed

The city health authority is currently contacting the officials concerned. The police have closed both offices and all employees have been taken out of service. Only when your test results are available will you decide on how to proceed. The two inspections are disinfected, as are the emergency vehicles. In the meantime, neighboring departments take over the tasks of the inspections Bahnhof and Itzling.
Third cluster in Salzburg

The authority now classifies the outbreak as "Cluster C". Cluster A, which goes back to the Rotarian club meeting in mid-June, is now declining. Cluster B in private retirement homes could be "encapsulated" by the authority (German for the authorities). He was stable.

https://salzburg.orf.at/stories/3057865/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 15, 2020)

..unfortunately bad News today....
(I really hoped,I was wrong...really...)

https://noe.orf.at/stories/3058053/

In a slaughterhouse in Eggenburg (Horn district), 29 people were infected with the coronavirus, the confirmed health minister Ulrike Königsberger-Ludwig (SPÖ) on Wednesday on the sidelines of a press conference.

“There are currently 244 employees, almost the whole company. There is now no official closure, but because all employees are segregated or a large part is segregated, it is virtually a closure. I have short-circuited myself with the medical director in advance. At the moment that is the state of affairs and we are still waiting for 40 tests that are still open, ”said the Health Minister.

At first, 24 positive cases were mentioned on the sidelines of a press appointment in St. Pölten. "That was our stand when we went to the press conference," said the spokesman. Meanwhile, there was also a clarification on the discovery of the cluster in the company. An employee of the slaughterhouse showed symptoms, contacted the hotline 1450 and was subsequently tested positive for the corona virus. A screening measure already planned for the company was finally brought forward and made the infections known.
Cases uncovered in screening program

As the "NÖN" report online, the company decided after the recent positive cases in slaughterhouses in Upper Austria to have the employees tested voluntarily on a project of the Food Safety Agency (AGES) on CoV. Königsberger-Ludwig also confirmed that the cases were uncovered through a screening program.

"There is a screening program together with the AGES, where we mainly undertake and carry out our slaughterhouses in Lower Austria together with the AGES screening programs due to the incidents in Germany. And with these screening programs, the people who tested positive were noticed. "

Such screening was also carried out for employees of a slaughterhouse in Melk. There was no positive case there, emphasized Königsberger-Ludwig.


https://noe.orf.at/stories/3058017/

Wr. Neustadt: Nine cases in free church clusters

The number of coronavirus cases in the vicinity of Wiener Neustadt's “Pentecostal Church of God” rose from four to nine on Wednesday. The state medical staff now speaks of a cluster in relation to the Free Church.
Online since today, 10.02
Share on Facebook
Share on Twitter
Send by email

The testing of a total of 270 separate contact persons continued on Thursday morning. After the Free Church cluster in Upper Austria, which includes more than 200 people, it was announced on Tuesday that there are now also first cases in a Free Church in Wr. Neustadt should give.
Königsberger-Ludwig: "Well captured at the moment"

With regard to the cluster in the vicinity of the “Pentecostal Church of God” in Vienna, the state of Lower Austria is in close contact with the district administrative authorities. Immediately after the first case became known, tests were carried out, followed by contact tracing and the segregation of 270 people, said Lower Austria's state health minister Ulrike Königsberger-Ludwig (SPÖ) at a press appointment on Wednesday.

Those affected now had the task of "carrying out self-observations". "Without a doubt," the health minister reckoned, "with one or the other positive among the 270". Nine infected people were counted until Wednesday afternoon. In any case, the cluster was “well captured at the moment because the people are in quarantine,” said Königsberger-Ludwig. "We believe that these measures will not spread the virus as widely as it did recently in Upper Austria."

In the meantime, all churches of the "Pentecostal Church of God" faith group in all of Austria have been closed, Ion Paduretu, spokesman for the umbrella organization of the Pentecostal churches in Austria, told noe.ORF.at.

https://kaernten.orf.at/stories/3058015/

New infection and mask requirement in Wolfsberg

The Land of Carinthia reported a new infection in Wolfsberg on Wednesday morning. The contact tracing in the affected woman is running. The district administration Wolfsberg prescribed a mask requirement in certain public areas over the weekends.

The obligation to wear mouth-nose protection applies in certain public areas of the city of Wolfsberg on Fridays from 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. on Saturdays and from 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. on Sundays. The district government ordered it specifically for the following public places: Johann-Offner-Straße (plots number 150/7 and 150/8, each KG 77258 Wolfsberg Obere Stadt) in the spatial area between the traffic sign "KURZPARKZONE" at the level of the object Johann- Offner-Straße 11 and the traffic sign "BEGEGNUNGSZONE" at the level of Hoher Platz No. 21.

B70 Packer Straße (plot number 316/2, KG 77232 Priel) and its side street (plot number 244/13, KG 77232 Priel) in the spatial area between road kilometers 92,663 and 92,796; Lagerstraße (plot number 185/24, KG 77232 Priel) in the spatial area between the plot numbers 185/16 and 185/21, each KG 77232 Priel.
Cluster in Klagenfurt

A case was reported last week at a theater workshop in Klagenfurt. According to information from the state, contact tracing for the infected woman resulted in 62 contact persons of category 1. In this cluster there are a total of four infected persons in the city of Klagenfurt.

Governor Peter Kaiser (SPÖ) and Education Director Robert Klinglmair are still in quarantine. Kaiser has been tested negative three times, Klinglmair has been negative once and will be tested again before quitting his quarantine next week. You are one of the contact persons for an infected Klagenfurt woman who was at a ceremony. A total of 120 people, including 35 students, are tested in this cluster. In exceptional cases also those contact persons who do not belong to category 1.
Currently, 17 people are infected with the corona virus in Carinthia.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 16, 2020)

Update:

The number of coronavirus infections associated with the Wr. Neustadt cluster around the Free Church Pentecostal Church of God rose on Thursday from nine to 22 on the previous day. There are now 38 cases in the slaughterhouse cluster.

https://noe.orf.at/stories/3058179/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next "great" idea from Politics:

Kids/Childs can go to the Kindergarten,even they have "a Sniff/Cold".

https://orf.at/stories/3173549/

"Better with a cold in kindergarten"

The summer vacation has only just begun, but the uncertainty of how everyday life in kindergartens and schools will continue in autumn hangs like a sword of Damocles over many parents. On the one hand, groups of children can be closed quickly from one day to the next if there is a suspected CoV case. On the other hand, some kindergarten operators require clarification from the pediatrician even with slight cooling.

Sick children have to stay at home. But with colds and fever of (small) children there is a lot of room for interpretation. The decision as to whether it was a cold or a suspected CoV case was a "balancing act" for both parents and kindergartens, according to the Wiener Kinderfreunde, operators of around 140 kindergartens: "Every suspected case must be clarified, that is because Responsibility of the operator, ”says ORF.at. Cold symptoms should be taken just as seriously.

For the clarification, kindergarten operators advise parents either to call the hotline 1450 or - in most cases - to have an examination at the pediatrician beforehand. In the past few weeks, many children "with banal symptoms were sent from kindergartens to be examined for the coronavirus", says the Viennese pediatrician Peter Voitl from his practice: "This is terrible. That paralyzes the whole system. ”There is not enough time in the practices for chronically ill children. It will also be difficult for the parents, because each child has an average of eight to ten colds in autumn and winter.
I don't even want to think about autumn

Pediatrician Marlies Haslinger has also seen an increase in demand over the past few weeks due to a runny nose, cough and fever. In the ORF.at interview, Haslinger says that she “doesn't want to think about autumn, when these infections become more common”. "Pediatricians are expected to rule out SARS-CoV-2 infection and receive written confirmation, but this is not clinically possible. A test is always required here, ”Tyrolean pediatrician Klaus Kapelari told ORF.at.
A pediatrician takes a throat swab from a girl in a doctor's office
Getty Images / Joos Mind
Runny nose or CoV infection? Kindergartens usually refer parents to pediatricians for clarification of this question

"Even cold children must be able to go to kindergarten," is Voitl's appeal. Because the grandparents belonged to the risk group, and if one parent takes care of several children, the virus spreads uncontrollably. Voitl: "So it is better to go to kindergarten with a cold." Especially since children are not super spreaders. The recommendations of the Ministry of Health on protective measures in kindergartens do not count runny nose as one of the symptoms that are suspected of being a CoV.
Children as CoV “brake blocks”

A recent study from the German state of Saxony shows that children are not a driver for the spread of the virus. In a study of 1,500 students and 500 teachers between May and July, SARS-CoV-2 antibodies were only found in twelve people - although tests were also carried out in schools with CoV cases. "Children may even be a brake on infection," said study author Reinhard Berner from the University Hospital Dresden. It can be derived from the study that there is no explosive spread in schools in a region with low infection numbers.

Kindergarten operators made similar observations. 150 CoV tests have been carried out at the 91 KIWI locations in Vienna since mid-March. Three of them were positive: two parents, one employee and no child. The previous record of the Wiener Kinderfreunde looks similar. Out of 200 tests in around 50 kindergartens, two children and one employee tested positive. In Salzburg, 300 under six-year-olds were tested because of those affected in the family association: three percent of them were infected with the corona virus.
Closure in case of suspected CoV

However, due to the requirements of the authorities, the tests resulted in the closure of groups or entire kindergartens - until the respective test results were available. And that can currently take several days. That tugs at the nervous costumes of everyone involved: with parents who no longer have any leave or care leave. For the children who are allowed to go to kindergarten, then again not. For the kindergarten operators who want to protect themselves as best as possible due to the consequences of a specific suspected CoV and therefore in some cases want clarification from the pediatrician in the event of mild symptoms.

As soon as the kindergarten is informed about a child's CoV test, this group must be closed in accordance with the current official requirements until the test result is available. Pediatrician Haslinger sees in practice that many parents prefer to have a CoV test for a runny nose to protect themselves and "so they don't have to stay at home".

Vacation and leave of absence used up

The KIWI managing director in Vienna advocates using other criteria such as a cold wave in the area for a decision to close a group. It is crucial, however, that parents get more security, says Gerold-Siegl, and the right to a home office in the event of official closure or - if that is not possible - special leave.

Many parents have already taken leave and leave of absence. Many employers refer to the option of unpaid leave if there is a spontaneous group closure in kindergarten. In the meantime there is also a petition "Families in Crisis", which demands that the kindergarten must remain open until the test result is available. In addition, faster test results are needed. By Wednesday evening, over 2,700 people had signed the petition.
Work on rules

Some of those involved - pediatricians, parents, kindergartens - feel left alone with the problems. The call for clear guidelines from the health authorities and faster test results is loud. SPÖ education spokeswoman Sonja Hammerschmid also calls for nationwide rules, at least for schools. Classes or schools should not be closed indiscriminately and across the board, but only based on evidence, combined with a comprehensive test strategy.

The Austrian Society for Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine advocates regular operation in schools in autumn. A closure harbors the risk of greater inequalities, especially for children from disadvantaged families. In cooperation with the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Education and the health authorities, guidelines are currently being worked on, which should apply to the new school year, according to ORF.at. At the same time, solutions for the coming weeks and autumn are being noted at the country level.

Pediatrician Voitl develops recommendations for autumn with the Vienna State Medical Directorate

A concept for educational institutions for autumn is being worked on in Vienna. And pediatrician Voitl, together with experts from the Medical Association and the Vienna State Medical Directorate, develops guidelines aimed at parents, kindergartens and pediatricians. They should be published as soon as possible. For example, according to Voitl, parents should regularly disinfect objects that are frequently attacked, such as cell phones and door clasps, “but do not lock up the children at home”. The pediatrician sends the message to the kindergartens: "Not every runny nose needs a coronavirus test." And the limited medical resources must be handled with care.
The flu wave challenge

Because in autumn and winter a flu wave is expected again - with symptoms similar to those of a Covid 19 disease. Accordingly, other federal states are preparing for these challenges in autumn. In Tyrol, for example, experts from the state work with representatives of the medical association to ensure that doctors have sufficient protective materials and that test results are available more quickly.

Salzburg wants to do without large-scale kindergarten and school closures, as was the case in Upper Austria recently, NEOS family member Andrea Klambauer told ORF.at. Until a test result is available, only individual groups should be closed in the event of a suspected case. In coordination with the State Medical Directorate, Klambauer wants to achieve a result within one day by testing pedagogues by autumn.
Tests only snapshot

Neither medical representatives nor kindergartens can gain much from NEOS 'demand in Vienna to test children of compulsory school and kindergarten age at least in the first three weeks of the new school and kindergarten year. That is a snapshot. Voitl: "If that were the case, you would have to test all winter." But kindergarten operator Gerold-Siegl is also convinced that testing is not realistic.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 16, 2020)

notimp said:


> So for austria the entire thing should be more than managable from now on. Its just not back to normal quite yet, and probably also not for the next 2 years. But close to it - if we keep following social distancing guidelines.
> 
> Lets see if I am wrong and something unexpected happens.





Our People in Austria are "seemingly" a little "not so intelligent" and learned nothing from the Past...
(Of course,in Relation to the actual Covid-19 in the USA for Example,it is "nothing"....we are a smaller Country with less Citizens.)

16 Days later:

https://orf.at/stories/3173859/

Medical association for return to mandatory mask

The Austrian Medical Association (ÖÄK) spoke out on Thursday for a far-reaching reintroduction of the mask requirement. It is about closed spaces such as supermarkets and shops. “*The voluntary system doesn't work. If it doesn't work voluntarily, you have to make it compulsory, and as soon as possible*, ”said ÖAK President Thomas Szekeres at a press conference.

Austria's numbers are very good. "They rise slowly, do not explode," stated the doctor. It is up to ourselves that it stays that way. Szekeres therefore once again appealed to keep his distance, wash hands and, especially in closed rooms, to use mouth-nose protection.

Infectiologist and ÖÄK Vice President Herwig Lindner said: "We are in a phase of cooling off the pandemic and this phase must be used." The measures taken by the government had been used, but the curve of new infections was rising again. There were deficits in crisis management here and there - such as a lack of masks in March and April - "this must not happen a second time".

Mouth and nose protection is currently only mandatory in Austria in a few areas - for example in pharmacies, for services when the one-meter distance cannot be maintained, and in public transport. The discipline is mixed. About every tenth passenger on the Graz public transport system does not comply with the obligation to wear a mask. From Monday, there are fines of 50 euros - more on that in

At Wiener Linien, you pay up to 60 euros for the mask refusal, and ÖBB is now also imposing a fine: Those who do not comply with the train staff's request and who do not wear mouth-nose protection can be expelled from the train, the ÖBB reported on Thursday. According to the ÖBB, the majority of passengers also want the mask requirement to be met.

National and EU-wide strategies required

The lessons have to be learned, especially at EU level, Lindner said: There is a dependency on low-wage countries in the production of medicines and protective equipment. You have to be able to produce protective equipment, basic medication and other medicines yourself. "We must guarantee independence in the future," emphasized Lindner.
Woman with face mask in front of a restaurant
debate
CoV: How can Austria best get through the summer?

At the national level, state management must be put ahead of it in the event of crises that affect the entire country. "We have to conclude contracts for who is responsible for warehousing," said the ÖÄK Vice President. In the case of large pandemics and epidemics in the area of private practice, it is also not possible to give individual doctors the responsibility of ensuring that there is enough protective equipment in the ordinations.
Warning of trivialization by opponents of vaccination

The infectiologist also warned against a decrease in vaccination readiness. "There will be a vaccine. We can do it, ”the infectiologist was convinced, citing smallpox and polio as examples. "The government says we will have to live with the virus - yes. But only for a certain period of time. "But opponents of vaccination would already start to form," and that is a danger. They trivialize the virus, ”criticized Lindner.

Szekeres also advocated linking medication data from the ELGA and / or social security with those from the electronic reporting system (EMS) and the medical histories from the hospitals. According to the ÖÄK President, this could serve to identify drugs that are effective against SARS-CoV-2. "If I find a connection between a mild course of Covid 19 disease and certain premedications," you may have an effective medication. The data would of course be compared anonymously.
Country "must afford resources"

Lindner also opposed "red pencil acrobats" who would form to reduce hospital beds, especially intensive care beds. The pandemic has shown that this should be assessed differently. For example, only one Covid-19 patient can lie in a four-bed room, which corresponds to an occupancy rate of 25 percent, but according to Lindner, this should not be expected. "It is very important that Austria, as a rich country, affords the appropriate resources," the infectiologist appealed. Not least to avoid situations like those in Italy and France during the coronavirus crisis.

Szekeres appealed to take containment seriously: anyone who shows symptoms should stay at home and request testing via the hotline 1450. Last but not least, it is important to differentiate in view of the general symptoms that can also occur with other viral infections.


Update:

Number of active cases increased again

According to current figures from the Ministry of Health (as of today, 11:00 a.m.), the number of active coronavirus cases in Austria has risen again. 1,315 people are infected, 46 more than the previous day. However, the number of sick people in the hospital dropped by three to 83. Eleven of them are in the intensive care unit.

So far, 685 people in Austria have died from the coronavirus, whereby the definition of the epidemiological reporting system (EMS) is decisive for the count.

A total of 19,195 positive tests have been reported so far. A total of 726,345 tests were carried out and registered.

https://orf.at/stories/3173810/


----------



## notimp (Jul 16, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> Number of active cases increased again


New infections in Austria are rising, but still at a linear and low casecount level. 

Afair currently the SPÖ is the only politcal fraction that demands masks in supermarkets at this point again ( - we already had them).

And to be perfectly honest, first - I was a little bit extatic myself to not have to wear them in supermarkets, so voluntary wouldnt have worked in my case either.. 

Remember, we are at a case number (low) where 'contact tracing' is still a thing. (Still possible) So currently people are mostly worried about, and mostly looking into 'new potential clusters' of infections.

And if they would see a high cluster in supermarkets, I think we wouldnt have retracted those measures there.. 

Also this - mostly should be a political decision between 'whats needed' (and how urgently) and 'give people a little room to breath after a (successful) curfew. But I havent looked into the argumentation of the Austrian Medical Association (ÖÄK) yet.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 16, 2020)

My Thoughts on this actual Situation....

It really seems again....they have no idea what they should do next...
Maybe it is difficult.....difficult because our People ar a little "unreasonable".

They can not say "Wear Masks again"...not again,not now.
A very great Amount of People will boycott...
(Cinemas/Events and so an are about to "Re open"......)

.....and then it maybe "starts".

Police had to control and "punish"....yes of course.....with which ones ?
They are also "pissed" on the Situation...
(I know many of them ....they had "enough" of the actual Situation....)

A second Mask "Wave"....this will not work again as good as the First....


----------



## notimp (Jul 16, 2020)

Yes, a little bit of everything you said.  But thats political decision making for you. If they fail - they might loose at the next election.. 

Police had an interesting job lets say - to enforce directives, that maybe had no legal backing, but were necessary to become a standard behaviorally. (Most people that actually were 'fined' will go free, because of formal/legal backing issues).

Cinemas again will reopen, but with seating rearrangement rules, same issue as with small theaters (art), where if you are a small outfit, it might not prove profitable to reopen.

Its all about this strange new normal until the next ramp up of measures, which in austria - looking at case numbers, might still take a while. (Selectively they already did in some hotspots (Velden).)

Also it does make sense to ramp up measures a little around the end of the year (winter), and you want to keep compliance good until that point as well.

No one knows for certain, thats for sure, but at the same time everyone kind of makes educated guesses. And the data needed for those is there and out in the open. And Austria is still pretty flexible, because casecount is still low, and growth is not that problematic either, yet. 

The thing is, if you could 'almost eradicate' it now, but then have a reinfection potential from other parts of the world, where the virus is not under control at all - it kind of changes your calculation also... (There is no goal 'try to keep it as low as possible to eventually eradicate it. It still is - minimize victims until a treatment or cure become available.)


----------



## notimp (Jul 18, 2020)

And within the SPÖ it seemingly is a PR line.  ('Opposition work')
see: https://www.diepresse.com/5841005/hacker-gegen-maskenpflicht-im-supermarkt (german)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 19, 2020)

The Situation is now typical for Austria,no one will be the first who says "Mask agains"....
Print Medias "again pours Oil into the Discussions and spread falsehoods ...."

https://orf.at/stories/3174192/

Mask requirement in the supermarket before comeback

There will soon be a mask requirement again in supermarkets, as recently reported by the "Kronen Zeitung", "Kurier" and "Austria". According to the "Kurier", Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) had spoken in favor of the return of the mask requirement "in certain areas".

In an interview with the daily newspaper "Austria", Kurz said: "We will advise on the areas in which we will reintroduce the mask requirement." Vice Chancellor Werner Kogler (Greens) in the "Courier" interview: "The idea is that you should Supermarket to wear the mask again. If you don't have a mask with you, the supermarkets should make the masks available again. ”However, Kogler was skeptical when it came to nationwide mask requirements.

Kogler had already commented on the topic in an interview published on Friday with the "Vorarlberger Nachrichten": "There is still a lot to do for a nationwide general mask requirement. However, the debate about the requirement to wear a mask in supermarkets should be differentiated. ”The question is different because“ everyone has to go there. However, I can choose whether I go to a football stadium or not. ”
Anschober: "No reason for alarmism"

The number of new infections increased - after several days with more than a hundred new infections - by 65 from Saturday morning to Sunday morning. "This situation is not a reason for alarmism, but it must be taken very seriously and must be followed very professionally and consistently," said Health Minister Rudolf Anschober (Greens) in a broadcast on Sunday. If nationwide measures are necessary, these could be implemented again at short notice, Anschober previously.

Government meeting scheduled for Monday

As the APA learned from the Chancellery, Kurz held a conference call on Sunday evening during the break in the Brussels negotiations with Kogler as well as with the Minister of the Interior and Karl Nehammer (ÖVP). It should be about a “rough vote”. The employees should then discuss the details overnight. Actually, people wanted to come together for advice on Sunday.

After Kurz's return from Brussels, a physical meeting with the responsible government officials in Vienna is planned for Monday. When exactly this will take place has not yet been determined, it also depends on the course of the negotiations in Brussels, it said. In any case, the public should be informed after this meeting.

There is currently no uniform obligation when it comes to wearing mouth and nose protection. Regional regulations are in force in Upper Austria, Salzburg and Carinthia. Nationwide, the mask must be put on in the "public transport", in doctor's offices and hospitals, in pharmacies, for services without a minimum distance, and in certain areas of indoor events.
SPÖ for return to the mask requirement in the supermarket

The SPÖ is also in favor of a return to wearing masks in supermarkets, as was again emphasized in a press release on Saturday. “Everyone has to go to the supermarket to get groceries. Even risk groups cannot choose this. However, due to the local conditions, the safety distance cannot always be maintained. Only a mask requirement helps, ”said health spokesman Philip Kucher. The Austrian Chamber of Physicians (ÖÄK) also recently advocated a far-reaching reintroduction of the mask requirement.
Kogler on traffic light system: No majority in countries

The traffic light system that had already been announced was another topic at the weekend: "The traffic light system, on which the Ministry of Health is already working, must now be implemented quickly so that no patchwork of different measures is created across Austria, but that the countries can proceed uniformly in the districts" Kurz said to "Austria".
Woman with face mask in front of a restaurant
debate

As a reason that the 17 guidelines for the federal states and the traffic light system are not yet ready, Kogler saw that "there was no majority among the provincial governors to undertake regional differentiated measures at all". The "17-point action program against a second wave" is "completely on schedule", it said in a message from the Ministry of Health - the same applies to the traffic light system.


----------



## notimp (Jul 21, 2020)

Luxenburg and Austria, edit: and Singapore, Slovenia, are seemingly the only countries where 'wearing facemasks in supermarkets' was a thing (compulsory - for a time, for the entire public):
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/f..._around_face_masks_and_covid-19-15may2020.pdf

Perspective.. 

edit: Other countries (with higher infection rates) made them compulsory, when going outside. (So a stricter ruleset).

But you can compare daily new infection numbers (just change austria at the end of this link: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/ ) to any number of other countries, most of which have employed laxer measures than austria (in the first period of 'Covid-19 action'). You have a list of measures taken by country in the first pdf.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 21, 2020)

notimp said:


> Luxenburg and Austria, edit: and Singapore, Slovenia, are seemingly the only countries where 'wearing facemasks in supermarkets' was a thing (compulsory - for a time, for the entire public):
> https://www.health.govt.nz/system/f..._around_face_masks_and_covid-19-15may2020.pdf
> 
> Perspective..
> ...




The Funny Thing:

There are no Covid-19 "Clusters" in an Supermarket/Shop reported....as many People/Politicians already mentioned.


----------



## notimp (Jul 21, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> The Funny Thing:
> 
> There are no Covid-19 "Clusters" in an Supermarket/Shop reported....as many People/Politicians already mentioned.


Yes. Part of this might be, because its hard to measure. (Need cellphone tracing for that - so you'd have do research if south korea or singapore f.e. have produced data.) Part of it might be, because most people are keeping more distance when interacting with others (even though in supermarkets there is a reported lack of it), part of it is because 'surface infections' (you touching a thing after another person) reportedly arent very high with Covid-19. Part of it might be, because of other measures the dark figure (at least in countries that could control spread) might not be very high (+100% maybe  ), because people are self isolating, and getting tested.

Peter Hacker (SPÖ) was in the media before stating that they are actively looking for clusters (increasing mandatory distributed testing (sample testing) in large companies) and so far supermarkets havent shown up as significant sources for clusters.

But again, I'm sure that if infection rate increases, they'll bring back masks in supermarkets as well..  Currently it is trending down again.. (for two days, but still.  ) at a low case count (in Austria).


----------



## notimp (Jul 21, 2020)

Quick google:



> Infection rates among supermarket employees were 9.2% (11/120), family members of confirmed cases 2.9% (12/93) and supermarket clients 0.02% (2/8 224) respectively.


https://www.cebm.net/study/covid-19...a-supermarket-in-liaocheng-shandong-province/


----------



## notimp (Jul 21, 2020)

And we are back to mandatory mask wearing in supermarkets, banks and post offices in austria again, starting on friday. The chancellor has spoken... 

https://www.diepresse.com/5842623/wie-die-zweite-corona-welle-verhindert-werden-soll (german)

edit: Meanwhile:


> Even though mandatory mask wearing has been reinstated in supermarkets, according to Franz Allerberger, Head of the department of public health at the austrian agency for health and food safety (Ages), there are currently no proven infections in austria that could be traced back to have originated in a supermarket. "We are presuming that the infection curve will not be influenced by the mandatory mask wearing in super markets", Allerberger said in the Ö1-"Morgenjournal".


https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...in-supermarkt-banken-und-postfilialen-zurueck


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 22, 2020)

This Time,the FPÖ and NEOS have the correct Words for this "Farce"....

_The FPÖ cannot gain anything from the government's actions. In addition to symbolism, the mask "really has no effect", but is "pure chicane, with which you pretend to the public a kind of activity, but above all that can frighten people," said FPÖ club chairman Herbert Kickl. The government obviously says "staging instead of evidence-based measures," said NEOS health spokesman Gerald Loacker. The mask requirement is confusing and contradicts any scientific evidence and the announced plans to take regional measures.
_


----------



## notimp (Jul 22, 2020)

Kickl..  Having people wear masks has an effect on the dispersion of aerosols, and mucus particles - with Covid-19 most of the virus material is heavy enough to fall out of the air after a couple of minutes, which is why we end up with this 1-1,5m distance rule (as in - this might be enough) and seemingly a lower infection chance in supermarkets (if people keep distance).

I've posted Dan Ariely in here (probably in a different thread) before ( h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HefIT-JgjR4 ) - who was tasked to develop the behavioral response in israel.

Basically - since you still want to modify peoples behavior, you also do a couple of things that are mostly aimed at changing their behavior. One of the most blatant ones is the 'baby elephant' meme as a measure for the distance people should stay apart. You are not using meters, you are using positive loaded metaphors, so you jump peoples decision processing from rational number based to 'oh, baby elephant - I can do that' resulting in better compliance.

Similarly with masks - if you want to remind people to keep more distance, you might layer in 'mask wearing in supermarkets' again, and then add postal offices and banks just for good measure, so people working there dont feel left out..  (in the latter two keeping an appropriate distance is even less of an issue)

As a result you get the desired effect. Which is overall better compliance.

Now two additional important, points. Mask wearing (en mass) does help (there are studies with chirurgical masks and other Corona viruses), the issue we are conversing is 'when already at low infection risk in a public place (say supermarkets in summer)' how much mask do you need additionally? And the answer presumably is 'exactly as much as it takes for people to change their behavior in general (and therefore at home, or at work as well)' where it is far harder for you as a state to legislate into. So you are after an indirect effect.

Second, the entire calculation changes significantly - when a larger percentage of your population is infected (it makes more sense then to go after the direct effect, statistically). So the general assessment 'masks do not work' is wrong on several levels if you look at it that condensed.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 22, 2020)

notimp said:


> Kickl..  Having people wear masks has an effect on the dispersion of aerosols, and mucus particles - with Covid-19 most of the virus material is heavy enough to fall out of the air after a couple of minutes, which is why we end up with this 1-1,5m distance rule (as in - this might be enough) and seemingly a lower infection chance in supermarkets (if people keep distance).
> 
> I've posted Dan Ariely in here (probably in a different thread) before ( h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HefIT-JgjR4 ) - who was tasked to develop the behavioral response in israel.
> 
> ...




*sigh*

It will be a very long Summer.....
And it does not really seem,that People getting really smarter.....

We will talk in December 2020 than,my Friend.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jul 22, 2020)

You cannot create a vaccine for a virus. They improvise, they adapt, and they overcome. If we had a vaccine for any virus, it would be for the common cold. The coronavirus will be here until the end of time. Give up. Loosen up. Go back to normal. Tear off your mask. Live.


----------



## notimp (Jul 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You cannot create a vaccine for a virus. They improvise, they adapt, and they overcome. If we had a vaccine for any virus, it would be for the common cold. The coronavirus will be here until the end of time. Give up. Loosen up. Go back to normal. Tear off your mask. Live.


Neh.

Issue is, that you dont have any sort of crowd immunity going. Which means, if you 'just let it spread' it spreads exponentially (as a Corona virus being submitted from human to human ("high infection rates (every person infects three others (if no measures are taken))")).

Even if a virus mutates, on many strains you are supposed to have a faster residual immune response, if you already had 'something like it' once, acting as a natural stop gap on propagation speed.

With Covid-19 this is missing. (And still missing for a long time (1-10% of population infected at most)).

So while what you are saying is not wrong at all and would be the 'a psychologically healthy response', if we all acted like that - we would drive up numbers of people dying from it - for literally no reason.

At the same time it is exactly the response that psychologists are telling us is typical for america - which is an entire society based around not caring about what happens to people near you, If you can avoid it.  So not only is the response logical - it is expected.

At the same time though, you really have to do something, if you dont want to end up like the US..  (Worse death rate than Brasil or Russia (although I wouldnt trust both of those numbers. (Both have autocrats in power (all three countries actually..  ))))

Also - there are actual virus based illnesses that were extinguished (some only in parts of the world, but still) because of vaccination. (Polio, ... (granted, this is harder to do with a corona virus) - and to extinguish a virus, you also need to build up residual immunity (everyone gets vaccinated as a child, so the chances of one 'pocket' spreading throughout a population become slime to none. Eradicating only works through building residual immunity in populations.)

So in short - your opinion, totally fine for a single person to hold - highly problematic if you'd give it out as a general recommendation. If you are promoting that model as the POTUS f.e., you are actively killing people (statistically, but nevertheless).


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 24, 2020)

If the Progress of new Infections goes this Way,we have the next Lock Down in the next 2 Weeks....maybe not the whole Country but Upper Austria is the first Candiate I am pretty sure....and I think it has ABSOLUTE NOTHING to do with Germany.....
(no,not from *that *Time.....).


The People in Burgenland are apparently more responsible.....


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jul 24, 2020)

Been stealing muh Facebroach memes again.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 28, 2020)

Do not get me wrong,I am really not "proud" that everything came as expected....

It is not funny actual,in which "Chaos" we live actual....
Again,our "Kanzelohr" Chancellor Kurz keeps out of everything and apparently makes no decisions himself ..but ok this belongs to Anschober´s Ressort...but wait....national "Security/Safety" ? Hmm.....

- St.Wolfgang is getting more and more out of Control - NO Lock down ?
- Teachers Union persist on "Mask requirements" and still no "Rules" for September when School is open again...
- The "Border entry Requirements" are a mess,no one really knows their way around and the Countries outside are now putting us on the list of dangerous States..
- Our great Lady Tanner "dismantle" the Bundesheer,but they are required for Border Controls and this Things.....

...and if that is not enough now here in Burgenland we get maybe also "really" Troubles with the Virus...
Thank God thankfully we were spared so far.Also I must say here in my Town the People are very,very responsible...maybe because there are "more older and oldest" People and not so much "Party" Clientele here....

All is set for the........next Lock Down ? We will see.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 28, 2020)

Maybe the "heard" me...

https://orf.at/stories/3175272/

"Mistake happened"
Anschober announces ministerial reform

Around 100 legal steps, including decrees and ordinances, have been implemented in the pandemic in the past few months. The Constitutional Court (VfGH) overturned parts of it last week. There was also harsh criticism of the current entry regulations. Minister of Health Rudolf Anschober (Greens) reacted to this and announced a reform in the Ministry of Health on Tuesday.

In the course of the reform, Anschober wants to undo a change of department by his predecessor Beate Hartinger-Klein (FPÖ). The health minister criticized this organizational reform as weakening the crisis. In the coming year, he also wants to put the 1913 epidemic law on a new footing.

The legal team should also be increased. After the “bang” of the VfGH, which declared parts of the Covid Measures Act to be inadmissible, these formulations must now be “quickly repaired”. The aim is to deal with the amendment in the National Council in September. There will also be an assessment for this. The court referred to the wording in the Covid Measures Act and saw no general exit bans covered by it.

Override distance rules

Ongoing proceedings in areas that were canceled by the VfGH are being discontinued, according to Anschober. A subsequent punishment would be examined, but was “legally highly sensitive”.

The distance rules were also part of the VfGH complaints. These will now be overridden in the next few days. This is no longer punished across Austria. Anschober nevertheless appealed to personal responsibility in dealing with contacts.

ÖVP club chairman August Wöginger also announced amendments at another press conference in view of the recent verdict by the constitutional judges, "so that there is the necessary legal basis". The ministries are now examining whether amendments are necessary. "If you need it, we are always ready to implement it."

"That was bad work"

In addition, the processes for the creation of legal acts are to be reorganized. The background to this is also the complaints about the entry regulation, which even Anschober takes a critical view: “It was bad work. Period. ”A number of errors had occurred. Anschober: "This must not be repeated."
Woman with face mask in front of a restaurant

The constitutional service in the Federal Chancellery must be involved more extensively before the publication of regulations, for example. For this, Anschober announced an instruction. That was a debt from his ministry, which was not fulfilled in the entry regulation. However, Anschober emphasized that it had nothing to do with rivalries and inconsistencies with the constitutional service. In addition, external controlling is needed. The incorrect entry regulation is now corrected at short notice. "But the content will remain. In the medium term, it should be put on a new footing and become more readable, ”Anschober said. This is important because there are currently some travel-related clusters.
Different interpretations

Lawyers only found "sloppiness" on Monday with the current entry ordinance. It was too imprecise and could be interpreted differently. The regulation was adopted late Friday evening and has been in effect since Monday. At the weekend, it caused confusion and misinterpretation.

It now applies that a mandatory PCR test is required to return to Austria from CoV risk areas. If this is not the case at the time of entry, those affected must return to their home quarantine and take the test within 48 hours. Under no circumstances can the quarantine leave third-country nationals - even if they submit a negative PCR test, unless they are resident or habitually resident in Austria.

While mandatory PCR testing was mentioned in a first press release, the ministry then interpreted the ordinance as an alternative to the (now mandatory) test that it was possible to remain in the ten-day quarantine - without testing. That is not the case. The test must definitely be rescheduled, according to the final information from the Ministry of Health.
NEOS pleased with "self-knowledge"

It was "positive to acknowledge that Minister of Health Anschober admitted mistakes and praised improvement", NEOS health spokesman Gerald Loacker responded in a broadcast. The "chaotic picture" of the past week but "certainly not" due to too few employees. Loacker called for “real national ruling” and greater involvement of the opposition.

The FPÖ has sharply criticized the "accumulation of errors" in the CoV regulations of the Ministry of Social Affairs. "If such a mistake had happened to a free minister, there would be a rustling in the leaf forest and there would be hail demands for resignation," party leader Norbert Hofer criticized in a broadcast. Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) has lost control of his government.


----------



## notimp (Aug 2, 2020)

Austrian agency thats responsible for (some of the) strategy development:
https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000119089756/oesterreichs-oberster-virendetektiv (german)

Excess mortality in Austria currently is zero. 




see: https://euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

(Doesnt mean that we should stop wearing facemasks.  )


----------



## Alexander1970 (Aug 2, 2020)

notimp said:


> Austrian agency thats responsible for strategy development:
> https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000119089756/oesterreichs-oberster-virendetektiv (german)
> 
> Excess mortality in Austria currently is zero.




An actual Example,my Friend.
(Names changed/removed because of "Data Pivacy"...)

A Guy (Pensionist from Lower Austria) has an Romania Wife.
She have a big Family in Romania.They made/make Holidays in Romania 3-4 Times for a couple of Weeks in the Year.
(In the Meantime they also built a House there.)
..also last Month BEFORE the Border Restrictions raised again.....

The drive over Hungary.
No Problems to get into Romania.

Last Sunday (26th July) he decided to go home (his Wife has to go to Work again) before on Monday the new Restrictions are "online".

Guess what happens to the Border to Austria:
- No Test (costs 190 €) but he can pass into Austria....
with the following "Conditions":
- He has to go strictly home in 14-Day Self Quarantine (without calling the Corona Hotline)...
Not More.....

He also asks "And the Bulgarians can also come into without Tests ?"
Answer from the "Bordercontrolling Guy":
"Yes,the can drive *through* Austria,but they have/can not so stop during drivethrough..."

(Honestly I do not know,should I laugh or cry about this Story ?...)


----------



## notimp (Aug 2, 2020)

Seems normal to me. (Transit might be ok..?)
People have complained about those policies in recent past in germany (some people came back from vacation in spain and experienced exactly the same).

Those policies are in place because of expected higher infection rates in those countries than in your home country.

For the US its currently especially funny, because of the high infection rate, US citizens currently have problems almost entering every country:
https://medium.com/indica/the-plague-states-of-america-53b20678a80e

Not fun for the individual, but understandable (didnt look at rumanian infection numbers)?

edit: Source in the last link is actually problematic - please doublecheck, because I dindt. 

edit2: Is an issue in terms of "european identification" and stuff, so there is that angle as well.

edit:3 Yes, here - rumenia has been moved onto the austrian travel warning list. https://www.bmeia.gv.at/reise-aufenthalt/reisewarnungen/
edi4: And on a creativly named 'yellow list'
https://www.wko.at/service/aussenwirtschaft/coronavirus-infos-rumaenien.html


----------



## Alexander1970 (Aug 7, 2020)

notimp said:


> Seems normal to me. (Transit might be ok..?)
> People have complained about those policies in recent past in germany (some people came back from vacation in spain and experienced exactly the same).
> 
> Those policies are in place because of expected higher infection rates in those countries than in your home country.
> ...



Thank you for the Update,my Friend.



Covid is in the "Background"....

"They" have actual "other more important Worries"...

...the Commerzialbank Topic goes deeper and deeper into Politics....
also into Sports - SV Mattersburg has stopped all "Activities".

Also we are "distracted" by the Lebanon Explosion.
and of Course "The Escape" from Juan Carlos...

So,all is relatively "calm" at the Moment.


Oh I forgot:

Promiparty in Carinthia:
https://kaernten.orf.at/stories/3061159/

After a celebrating party in a Villach villa on Friday, 80 people are in quarantine. Among them is the Health Councilor Christian Pober (ÖVP), his test was negative. Five party guests were infected, including a restaurateur. Meanwhile, more and more tourism employees are voluntarily being tested.

It was an illustrious crowd that met during a church garden week at a private garden party in a villa in Villach. In addition to Pober Health City Council, lawyers, ex-politicians, many entrepreneurs and doctors are also affected. The city of Villach emphasizes that action was taken on Wednesday afternoon "immediately after the cases became known". The 80 guests of the celebrity party - it took place last Friday - are in quarantine at home for a total of ten days.

Own test station for those affected

The Red Cross was requested, a separate test station was set up for all concerned on Thursday morning at 9:00 a.m., the magistrate said. In addition, the state press service - despite data protection - also published the name of the restaurant in Villacher Lederergasse, which belongs to the Villacher restaurateurs who tested positive. Because he too was a guest of the celebrity party and is infected.

His restaurant in Villach, the “29er”, has been more than well attended in the last few days, almost “too good” for the authorities. Because the local events with live music at a "house church day" threatened to "proliferate" into the public space, the garden was cleared by the police. Now the restaurant remains closed, because the staff had to go into quarantine next to the host. From a purely legal point of view, the Villach restaurateur didn't do anything wrong. Because there were so many guests in front of his restaurant, the authority fears further infections and calls on everyone who has been there since July 31 to monitor their health and, if suspected, call the hotline 1450 or a health authority to contact.
Quarantine: Additional officers assigned for control

As for the 80 guests of the celebrity party in the Villach villa, where everything started, the magistrate hired additional officials to check compliance with the home quarantine. So far, five of the celebrities have been tested positive for the corona virus, 40 test results are still pending.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Aug 8, 2020)

No one wants it,all People were against it,now we have it - Camera Observation (of course,it is COVID Time actual)

A new technology is used to analyze visitor flows at a market in Innsbruck. This is intended to make a contribution to Covid security. Several cameras record the currents. If the need arises, action can be taken quickly.

The cameras were installed at the entrances to “Innsbruck Fischvergnügen”. The market stops at Innsbruck's market square from August 7th to 23rd. The event is also a challenge in terms of Covid security. In this case, they wanted to meet this challenge with a technology that was developed by the Innsbruck company Swarm Analytics GmbH.



> _*Pictures are deleted immediately
> 
> With the help of the camera data, the visitor flows are analyzed in real time. The pictures would then be deleted immediately so that there were no violations of privacy, according to a broadcast by Innsbruck Marketing.*_



_*Test run for Christmas markets*_

The responsible Vice Mayor Johannes Anzengruber (ÖVP) is convinced that "this technology helps the decision-makers and the organizers to receive valid data in order to be able to intervene quickly if the need arises". If the system proves itself, it could also be used in future at events and markets. The main focus here is on the Innsbruck Christmas markets.

https://tirol.orf.at/stories/3061291/

But of course,it if for our own Safety (our People are still too dumb,stupid and have no personal responsibility..)
So it is,of course,nice to hear,that "someone" cares about our health.

So,happy watching on Austria´s People.
(I do not think,"bad" People can hack Security Cameras or that Kind,right ?)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Aug 21, 2020)

A little Addition....

Actual there are Infections all around....so nobody no longer really cares about it.
The only really "scary" Fact is,it makes some People more Agressive than before....

Reports from "violent Incidents" - during Shopping because of "No Mask wearing" Kids for Example..
Returning Vacationers (from Croatia for Example) also did not really helps....

People,who are (knowing or ignorant) infected uses Trains.....

Birthday and Family Celebrations are again taking Place in larger Circles and are now common,as if nothing had ever happened ...

So why continue to worry,the Austrian pretends nothing has happened ... as usual.


----------



## notimp (Sep 11, 2020)

This is what a potential second wave looks like.. 





src: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/

Announced measures for Vienna (capital of Austria):
https://derstandard.at/permalink/rc/1000198452/context?ref=live_red_content

1. Routine testing before getting a stationary spot in hospitals and care facilities
2. Stores and businesses: Are suggested to enact full usage of facemasks.
3. Restaurants: Obligation to wear facemasks, for all personal and for guests until they are sitting at a table.
4. Workplace: Social rooms are problematic and should only be used with distancing (and disinfectants) rules in place
5. Closed events: Same as above, and the suggested cause of a high proportion of new infections

Luckily active casecount for austria isnt outrageous yet, and hospitals also arent over capacity.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Sep 11, 2020)

Unfortunately they have actual no Idea what to do.....

With the new "Covid Traffic light system" they are all "Overwhelmed"....
Municipalities / mayors decide differently than the "recommendations"....

I remember on Januar 2020 as our government says "We have everything under Control and this can not happen to us...."
But our dear citizens have long since forgotten, since "consequential damage" of excessive mask wear has now been proven .....


----------



## notimp (Sep 11, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> With the new "Covid Traffic light system" they are all "Overwhelmed"....
> Municipalities / mayors decide differently than the "recommendations"....


Yes, we'll see how this pans out..  Officials listening to different experts.. 

Because the message is out, many people are expected to do what Viennas major is advising (usually higher trust numbers in regional politicians, than in national politicians), and that will give part of the desired effect. If its not enough 'desired effect' you know who to blame..


----------



## Alexander1970 (Sep 12, 2020)

Another Situation where we are going to be "offended".

Yesterday:After the "Traffic Light" is Green (with Spots in Wien and Tirol on Orange/Yellow) on Monday the whole Country gets Restriction for Level Orange and Yellow..

And the detailed "Explanations" for the different Warning Levels on the Homepage (Green/Orange/Yellow/Red) are "suddenly" gone...

And today it was the Headline on Austrias Newspapers "Mask Obligation *again*"....


Personal Note:
Today my Wife and me went to Billa and our local Butcher through our Village...
We have witnessed 4 Cases where People getting aggressive against each other because of.......nothing....

We are steering in an very dangerous Situation now.....Frustration,Fear,Panic and Anger....Austria becomes slowly a "Human ticking Time Bomb" now...very dangerous....


----------



## Alexander1970 (Sep 29, 2020)

Good Morning.

Since not much is happening at the Moment (of the around 200 new Infections that are common every day..) the Media are once again spreading "Panic" with new Deathtolls from around the World ...

Strange, that the last Coronavirus Death in Austria was already over ........ hmmm
....even stranger, there is almost no Information about when the last death occurred ... must have been too long ago.


https://orf.at/stories/3183093/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 8, 2020)

Austria "seems" on the Way to the Lockdown.

https://orf.at/stories/3184384/

Anschober does not want to anticipate the traffic light commission

Health Minister Rudolf Anschober (Greens) allegedly does not want to comment on the upcoming switching of four districts to red. He is not part of the traffic light commission and does not intervene in it as a politician, said Anschober on the sidelines of a press conference today.

In the face of increasing numbers, however, he appealed to the population to adhere to the measures. Most of this happens, "but we still have some room for improvement".

As the daily newspaper “Austria” reported (Thursday edition), St. Pölten, Hermagor (Carinthia), Hallein (Salzburg) and Landeck (Tyrol) are faced with a red rating by the traffic light commission.

He cannot yet say what the result of the traffic light commission meeting will be, so Anschober. You have a "difficult situation", he referred to increasing numbers. These are not comparable with the numbers from the spring, because much more is being tested, said the minister.

Nevertheless, the current strategy must now be continued “consistently”. *That is why he is also making an “urgent appeal” to the population to take part again as they did in spring.* There was also no comment from the traffic light commission on the report in “Austria”.
--------------------------------------------------------------------



Very diplomatically circumscribed.


----------



## notimp (Oct 8, 2020)

The symbolism of the traffic light system imho is a low key disaster.

Instead of telling people what they should do you have them watch an arbitrary system and discuss colors.

Its supposed to be this: https://inudgeyou.com/en/traffic-nudge-countdown-traffic-lights/

Its not. Its adding to confusion.

Anschober not preempting an announcement surves two purposes: Responsibility delegation (not always bad, although it sounds that way), and having one message out there instead of two.

That part is standard practice, with governments and corporations alike. Again, not to add to confusion.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 8, 2020)

Schramböck does not rule out a new lockdown

Economics Minister Margarete Schramböck (ÖVP) does not rule out a second lockdown due to the coronavirus crisis. “I don't have a crystal ball. Israel would not have thought that it would come to that ”, Schramböck said today in the“ Kleine Zeitung ”. The Ministry of Health had recently denied rumors of a second lockdown.

Schramböck combined her warning of a second lockdown with a renewed request to Vienna to introduce an earlier curfew for bars.

FPÖ leader Norbert Hofer reacted sharply to Schramböck's statements. “The government is about to hit our country against the wall. Another lockdown would be the death knell for thousands of companies. New confusions every day, although the domestic health system still has sufficient capacity to cope with a possible increase in diseases, ”he criticized in a broadcast. He sees his warning of a second lockdown confirmed.

NEOS health spokesman Gerald Loacker was "shocked": "It is the primary task of the turquoise-green federal government to prevent a second lockdown." In view of the new record for new infections, the government is now called upon: "At the moment, the infection numbers are not worrying for this uncertainty, but rather the chaos of Kurz, Anschober and Co. "


----------



## notimp (Oct 9, 2020)

Yes, but then Schramböck is an idiot.

(Ich komme ja aus der Industrie,
Ich habe ja selbst einen Laptop benutzt,
Ich habe ja versucht österreichisch zu kaufen,
Ich baue  shöpping Plattformen gegen Amazon (Algos und Verteilerzentren) und nenn das Plattformwirtschaft)
(Sorry, only works in german, but you arent missing much, just a bunch of 'I know something, but I dont quite understand a thing babble, she usually excretes.)

Watch her getting played here, should be a topic you might know some things about:
https://www.alpbach.org/de/2020-almtalks/alles-digital/

(Oh, and btw, if you do watch, you dont protect against hacks by 'not telling the public how you do it' thats entirely BS as well, you monitor traffic, you patch and you do staff training. And proper segmentation (access/rights management().)

More talks if you are politically interested:
https://www.alpbach.org/de/2020-almtalks/

The entire name of the game currently should pretty much be to prevent a lockdown until after winter if possible.

If possible depends largely on hospital capacity at this point (no on is especially interested in raking up another 22 billion in debt ( https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...ort-auf-die-krise-22-milliarden-euro-an-neuen ).

Before hospitals go belly up, we'll have another lockdown. But likely not before. So listen to news about hospital capacity.

edit: Current data on hospitalization:
https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...irus-oesterreich-corona-ampel-in-ihrem-bezirk


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> Yes, but then Schramböck is an idiot.
> 
> (Ich komme ja aus der Industrie,
> Ich habe ja selbst einen Laptop benutzt,
> ...



Thank you.

Forget to mention another "important" Factor for the upcoming Lockdown:
The Municipal Council Elections

Vienna Votes....
11.October 2020

So the Lockdown has to wait AFTER this of Course......
..until October 12th
"Political Correctness"...


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 14, 2020)

...our Neighbors in Germany maybe "knows" a little more about a possible "Lock Down" ?

*Discount Stores are selling more Toilet Paper again..... *

https://orf.at/stories/3185226/

Against the background of increasing coronavirus infections, the demand for toilet paper is also rising again in Germany. “We are currently seeing a slight increase in demand for individual products, including toilet paper, in our branches for the first time,” said the discounter Aldi Süd to “Wirtschaftswoche”, according to a previous announcement from today. "In some regions and branches we are seeing a slight increase in demand for our hygiene range", confirmed competitor Lidl.

Retail chains such as REWE, dm and Kaufland have not yet been able to detect any changes in the purchasing behavior of their customers. At the beginning of the coronavirus crisis, sales of toilet paper in drug stores and larger supermarkets soared. In the second week of March, according to market researchers, sales were more than twice as high as in the comparable week of 2019. After that, however, demand went steeply downhill before the figures stabilized again in July.

Aldi spokespersons like Lidl emphasized according to "Wirtschaftswoche" that there was no reason to "hamster buy" (hoarding). "Based on the experience of the past few months, we observe fluctuations in demand very closely in order to be able to avoid any delivery bottlenecks," said Aldi Süd. Basically, the company is prepared for increasing demand and currently does not expect any restrictions on availability. Lidl also sees itself “well prepared”. If necessary, one can “react quickly in order to supply the branches with sufficient goods”.


----------



## Kurt91 (Oct 15, 2020)

I'm not sure if I'm going to regret asking this, but...



alexander1970 said:


> Aldi spokespersons like Lidl emphasized according to "Wirtschaftswoche" that there was no reason to buy hamsters.



Was "Hamsters" a mistype, or something? If the topic is a surge in toilet paper purchases, why did hamsters come up?


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 15, 2020)

Kurt91 said:


> I'm not sure if I'm going to regret asking this, but...
> 
> 
> 
> Was "Hamsters" a mistype, or something? If the topic is a surge in toilet paper purchases, why did hamsters come up?




Google is my best Friend...

Hamsterkäufe means People buy something (Toiletpaper for Example) in Quantities at once.

A Single Person needs 2 Rolls for a Week for Example under "normal" Circumstances.
Then this Single Person buys 100 for "Corona Lockdown".

That means he is "hamstering".....

It is like "hoarding".



Thank you for pointing me at that Mistype.


----------



## Kurt91 (Oct 15, 2020)

Well, I don't speak German, and so the only thing I could try Googling was the "Wirtschaftswoche" term you used, but that didn't get me anything regarding the term "hamster".


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 15, 2020)

Kurt91 said:


> Well, I don't speak German, and so the only thing I could try Googling was the "Wirtschaftswoche" term you used, but that didn't get me anything regarding the term "hamster".


Thank you.I copy the Text into Google Translate and sometimes this happens,my Fault,sorry.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 15, 2020)

2 Sides of the Coin.

One Side - The Gouvernment spreads "Panic" again:

https://orf.at/stories/3185268/

Briefly appeal to countries for more tightening

In view of the rising number of coronavirus infections across Austria, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) today wrote to the federal states asking for more stringent measures. In several federal states, the numbers have reached "very worrying levels".

"We are currently seeing a massive spread of the virus in some cities and countries in Europe, which makes it necessary to fight it with very drastic measures," said the Chancellor in the text available to the APA: "It must be clear to everyone in the country: The The situation is serious. ”A new infection rate such as in the neighboring country of the Czech Republic would lead to fatal effects on jobs and companies, bring the health system to the limits of its capacity and in fact cause a second lockdown.
The population should take the situation seriously

"The point now is for the federal states particularly affected to tighten the regions in a targeted manner, since after a certain point in time neither rapid tests nor targeted contact tracing will be possible for the authorities in the federal states concerned," said Kurz.

He also turned to the population: "I appeal to everyone in the country to take the situation seriously and to support the measures." The coming weeks would decide whether the spread of the virus can be slowed down and contained, or whether the coronavirus pandemic can be will cause even greater damage to the health system, jobs and businesses in the country.



Second Side:

The Unreasonableness,Stubbornness,Lack of Insight of a large Part of the Population.
And of course the Fear and Anger.
The more and more widespreading and still continuous "private" Parties for Example or still some People who refuses to wear Masks (but thats an other Topic of course..)
The "Keep Distance" Topic is clearly "from the Table"...it is obviously,that now almost nobody adheres to it anymore (nobody says anything against it,probably for fear of being beaten up ...)
In many Situations (except the Masks) you get the Feeling,there is no Virus Situation...(maybe correct...)

The Risk Assessment from the surrounding Countries is maybe not really exactly helpful for Austria either.


"All in One"
Maybe this Combination will lead soon to the next Lock down....

There is this Feeling,that only the Austrian Economy fights against it with all means,certainly justified this Time...maybe.


----------



## notimp (Oct 15, 2020)

Again, hospitalization rate.  Indicates, that mostly younger people are contracting it right now, which means you have a little more leniency trying to control it. Making it a federal 'decision' (allowing each province to decide on its own), also plays into this narrative. This leads to more effectiveness (provinces know what to do better) 'on the ground', but would be worse, if its indeed an overbearing issue, that needs to be tackled nationally. (Better execution.)

Economic pressures, yes - but also a change in approach that comes from 'learning' on the execution level. Leaving children out of schools f.e. pretty much served little purpose and had a massive impact. Lockdowns should become used more selectively and more as a 'last resort' measure, than as a 'it might fix it' one.

If you have missed it, read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...oronavirus-lockdowns-is-taken-out-of-context/

Lockdowns would have worked great, if you administered them early enough, when you have the first outbreak, you cant really gage 'how early' you are in the progression. For austria it seemed pretty darn early, but the countries surrounding austria didnt all manage as well. If you look at 'case infection rate' (how many additional people does one person infect), it still stayed quite low, which indicates, that vectors increased. Not saying this was the fault of neighboring countries - you simply cant tell. (Maybe its a group of people, not caring to follow measures where you didnt catch the common superspreader and that are now disperse within your population..  )

Second time around, a strange 'normalcy' kicks in, where decisions are made more pragmatically - and this is what I am basing my guessing game on. 

edit: There is also this strange episode: https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...sage-journalismus-der-seine-folgen-einbezieht

Of a journalist not being able to differenciate between planning and rollout - but hey, maybe he isnt as dumb as he acted by making this public, because he wanted an 'exclusive' and those decisions are made several months before execution.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Again, hospitalization rate.  Indicates, that mostly younger people are contracting it right now, which means you have a little more leniency trying to control it. Making it a federal 'decision' (allowing each province to decide on its own), also plays into this narrative. This leads to more effectiveness (provinces know what to do better) 'on the ground', but would be worse, if its indeed an overbearing issue, that needs to be tackled nationally. (Better execution.)
> 
> Economic pressures, yes - but also a change in approach that comes from 'learning' on the execution level. Leaving children out of schools f.e. pretty much served little purpose and had a massive impact. Lockdowns should become used more selectively and more as a 'last resort' measure, than as a 'it might fix it' one.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the Links.


Unfortunately,the "Rollercoaster" that one wanted to avoid begins now...

RED Light starts in some Regions in Salzburg

Salzburg tightened CoV measures

In view of the sharp rise in new CoV infections in the state, the State of Salzburg is taking further measures to curb the spread of the virus. In the Hallein district, the Kuchl community is being quarantined, and the ban on private celebrations and gatherings in the district, which only came into force on Tuesday, is being extended to the entire state. The Tennengau is apparently switched to red at the CoV traffic light.

In Tennengau, Flachgau, Pongau and in the city of Salzburg, all pupils from year 9 onwards will be switched to home schooling, and a registration requirement for restaurants will be introduced throughout the state. In addition, there is a ban on events in the whole of Salzburg if there are no assigned seats - whether inside or outside. In addition, the serving of food and drinks is prohibited. The measures will apply from Saturday until November 1st, midnight.

Governor Wilfried Haslauer (ÖVP) described the current development in Salzburg as dramatic at the press conference. The new CoV regulation will be published on Friday, come into force on Saturday and initially apply until November 1st.
Tennengau is switched to red

The Tennengau will be switched to red at the coronavirus traffic light, the Pongau and Flachgau will be orange, the state capital and the Lungau will stay yellow, it said. The infection process is currently still inconspicuous in Pinzgau. The main criterion for assessing the current situation is the occupancy rate of the hospitals. “It is foreseeable that in two weeks we will have reached the limit of supply. That is why we have to take measures to avoid a lockdown, ”said Haslauer - more on this in salzburg.ORF.at.
The population should take the situation seriously

In view of the increasing number of infections across Austria, Federal Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) asked the federal states in writing to tighten measures on Thursday. In several federal states, the numbers have reached "very worrying levels".

"We are currently seeing a massive spread of the virus in some cities and countries in Europe, which makes it necessary to fight it with very drastic measures," said the Chancellor in the text available to the APA: "It must be clear to everyone in the country: The The situation is serious. ”A new infection rate such as in the neighboring country of the Czech Republic would lead to fatal effects on jobs and companies, bring the health system to the limits of its capacity and in fact cause a second lockdown.

"The point now is for the federal states particularly affected to tighten the regulations in the regions, since after a certain point in time neither rapid tests nor targeted contact tracing will be possible for the authorities in the federal states concerned," said Kurz.

He also turned to the population: "I appeal to all people in the country to take the situation seriously and to support the measures." The coming weeks would decide whether the spread of the virus can be slowed down and contained or whether the pandemic can be much bigger Damage to the health system, jobs and businesses in the country will be caused.


----------



## notimp (Oct 15, 2020)

Germanys action trajectory: https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-g...ctions-as-it-enters-decisive-phase/a-55273942

Statistical analysis (also focused on germany, mainly): https://www.dw.com/en/making-sense-of-coronavirus-infection-statistics/a-55274839

edit: EU trajectory: (german)
https://www.dw.com/de/eu-gipfel-will-corona-maßnahmen-koordinieren/a-55276298

Comment on Paris Covid management: (german)
https://www.dw.com/de/pariser-corona-krisenmanagement-im-visier/a-55285028


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 15, 2020)

From your last Link:

Has the French government failed in the fight against the corona pandemic ?

Austria partially admitted that now after 6 Months ....

Personal Note:
I am a little "sad" I should have stored the Video(s) from ORF News Broadcast in January....
This insolent and condescending grin of the Moderator...after the first Pictures of that (over)full chinese Hospital (which is collapsing later...) 

"In Austria this can not happen....."


----------



## notimp (Oct 15, 2020)

Near exponential growth is hard..  (To manage and to wrap your head around.)

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3067663/ (german)

But overall we are still pretty 'fine':
https://de.statista.com/statistik/d...betten-durch-corona-patienten-in-oesterreich/ (german)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Near exponential growth is hard..  (To manage and to wrap your head around.)
> 
> https://wien.orf.at/stories/3067663/ (german)
> 
> ...



The second Link is really more like the actual Situation.
Thank you.


----------



## notimp (Oct 15, 2020)

No problem.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 16, 2020)

New CoV measures possible soon

Health Minister Rudolf Anschober (Greens) signals a tightening of the nationwide measures to protect against the spread of the corona virus. This is currently being worked out, he said on Thursday in ZIB2. When asked about the time, he said: "I would not rule out that this could be in the coming days."

Honestly,after reading the whole Article.....

 

https://orf.at/stories/3185407/



> Anschober also indicated an end to the visors, which are mainly used in gastronomy instead of mouth and nose protection: one knows from studies that the protection is "drastically reduced" compared to mouth and nose protection. That is why measures are already being prepared so that the mask “that is on the side, that this should be the means of our actions in Austria in the future”.






The SPÖ accused Kurz of scaremongering. Kurz only delivers headlines without speaking to those affected, said Federal Managing Director Christian Deutsch in a broadcast: "Corona crisis management needs prudence, seriousness and foresight and not a turquoise Chancellor Kurz, who poses as chief virologist and spreads fear and panic." Briefly, contradictions were churned out, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and a little later gave the "panic chancellor", criticized Deutsch and demanded an objective assessment of the situation by experts.




This is no longer a Matter of Health......now it's ONLY more political......maybe.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 16, 2020)

It could just be that people are tired of being trapped inside, here in the US there's been a big push to give multiple governors the boot (Including California's Gavin Newsom) for not alleviating the lockdown at all. The Hikikomori Lifestyle isn't for everyone, and 6-7 months is way too long to spend stuck on your rear at home when your usual schedule is shower, work, gym, friends, family, sleep repeat. .


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

No, it couldnt be that, because none of those decisions is informed, by what everyday people want. But by whats 'needed' or not. (Whats needed is to be disputed by scientific and political parties involved..  )

No one goes by public polls on this one..  (As long as there arent open revolts in the streets.)

The WHO comment quoted, raised the issue, that in third world economies, people would literally die, because of the economies in those countries tanking (some of which have tried to mirror EU measures), if you cant get aid financing increased - with the efforts there currently looking bleak. Thats the context behind - "governments, dont make curfews your primary approach to deal with the COVID crisis". People dying from hunger.

Maybe the dying from hunger lifestyle isnt for everyone?  Issue: It doesnt inform political decision making on this, so the WHO has to speak out and give a warning.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 16, 2020)




----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

Jojo, schau in die Krone..  (derogatory comment on a specific yellow press paper. ) (DW piece outlines the german trajectory.)

Also - people looking at graphs:




https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

We know, we know... 

Impact on death figures would be seen in four weeks. Impact on hospitalization rate I havent seen for germany... (would potentially give you that answer earlier.)

edit: Meaning, the IT IS SERIOUS! Headline is directed at people to change their behavior, if possible. Calling out one Salzburgian province, serves the same purpose. Anything not to have a full lockdown again... 

edit2: Meanwhile in Sweden:


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 16, 2020)

notimp said:


> -Snip for great justice-


Sweden didn't really lock down in the first place, which means the spike in cases is probably due to external influences. The virus' greatest adversary is sunlight and heat. Could it be the reduced exposure in fall and winter seasons increasing it's spread opportunities?


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

Thelucario21 said:


> Sweden didn't really lock down in the first place, which means the spike in cases is probably due to external influences. The virus' greatest adversary is sunlight and heat. Could it be the reduced exposure in fall and winter seasons increasing it's spread opportunities?


Absolutely.  Sweden is 'the control' in this comparison.  (Sweden is also 'the control' in the the 'do school closings work' case - because they were pretty much the only western country not to close schools during the epidemic.)

Here - watch this:


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 16, 2020)

notimp said:


> Absolutely.  *Sweden is 'the control' in this comparison*.  *(Sweden is also 'the control' in the the 'do school closings work' case* - because they were pretty much the only western country not to close schools during the epidemic.)
> 
> Here - watch this:



Sweden is also one of the few Countries which was getting sued of an Pandemic/Epidemic/Virus.



notimp said:


> Jojo, schau in die Krone..  (derogatory comment on a specific yellow press paper. ) (DW piece outlines the german trajectory.)
> 
> Also - people looking at graphs:
> 
> ...




It shows,how "controlling" the Print Media(s) are in Austria.
Spreading Panic.....and now we all have a wonderful Weekend,because the People now have to "fear" whatever comes in the next 24 Hours....


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

Well, this is supposed to be a coordinated effort, to tell people that winter is coming. 
https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...e-bevoelkerung-soziale-kontakte-zu-reduzieren

So first Schramböck hints at another shutdown being possible, then Bürger cant keep his mouth shut on preparation/rumors, then there is a curfew enacted in one salzburgian province ('dont be like them!') then the Krone has the 'shocker' Cover, then Kurz speaks to the public, in all sincerity.

As much as this feels artificial, it might - or might not be. Also it serves a purpose. Every one acting does so in the interest of the public. Arguably. Except maybe Bürger.

Also, remember that I'm a cynic when it comes to those kinds of proceedings, so you probably should be very afraid.  *jk* But at least concerned would not hurt - I guess is the message here..


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 16, 2020)

The good old:

Telegraph to the Family - "Be concerned - letter will follow."



https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000120857650/corona-geschwurbel?ref=rec



In the meantime an event ban has been imposed on the Tennengau because of a wedding cluster; No Turkish wedding this time, but that wasn't mentioned. Then it was said that the federal government was "discussing additional measures" - tightening the mask requirement. Since the Chancellor had just spoken of a "second wave" in one of his favorite riot newspapers, this leads to the conclusion that Turquoise wants tougher measures, but Green is still slowing down.


Sorry,I also can no longer take this Political "Geschwurbel" serious.....


@notimp 
By the Way,I am always grateful and appreciate your Links,my Friend.
Awesome.


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

Its nothing, I read news, I remember some of the stories I read, I link them.

Debates on Trump are much harder...  (There I have to do actual research to find out what 'the other side' is promoting..  )


----------



## Vovajka (Oct 16, 2020)

Where I live I haven't seen a single person wearing a mask except for doctors and hospital staff since the beginning of the year.


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

Vovajka said:


> Where I live I haven't seen a single person wearing a mask except for doctors and hospital staff since the beginning of the year.


Thats a reality check...

Only solace I can give is, that you are a pretty 'young' nation population wise... edit: strike that misread the graph. Sorry about that. edit: put it in a spoiler tag, not to lead with nonsense.



Spoiler








(left: male / right: female)



Any other 'issued' social measures (limits on public gatherings, stuff like that?).

edit: In the ECDC scheme you are listed as pretty affected:
https://vis.csh.ac.at/corona-traffic-light/world/#

edit2: That not effective?


> The changes also affect the Criminal Code of Ukraine. It is supposed to introduce administrative responsibility for the unauthorized abandonment of the place of observation or quarantine by a person who may be infected with a coronavirus, as well as increasing criminal liability for violation of sanitary rules and norms for the prevention of infectious diseases. Establishment of administrative responsibility for non-disclosure of information on public procurements carried out under this law.





> Article 325 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine is interpreted in such a way that a penalty of 1,000 to 3,000 tax-free minimum incomes of citizens will be imposed for violation of the rules and norms established with the aim of preventing epidemic and infectious diseases, as well as mass non-communicable diseases, arrest for a period of six months, restriction or imprisonment for three years, if such actions led or could lead to the spread of the disease. COVID-19 coronavirus will be added to the list of such diseases.


https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insigh...nstitution-measures-in-response-to-covid.html

Supply side issue on masks? Even home made ones? Whats the driver - do you know? (Social norms never established? Or other ones?)

edit: Rules that make masks and disinfectants mandatory are in place - but probably not enforced everywhere..
https://globalcompliancenews.com/uk...ne-has-been-extended-and-reinforced-20200420/

edit2: Have sourced the on the ground rules for the Ukraine. https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/z-1-serpnya-pochinayut-diyati-novi-pravila-adaptivnogo-karantinu
In green zones masks are supposed to be used in public buildings... *cough* But not in public.

edit: Here is some good news: On death per mil Ukraine is next to germany and not that much higher than Austria. about 125 vs 100.  (According to official statistics.  )


And here is the other good news:
Population density: Germany: 240 per km2, Austria 110 per km2, Ukraine 75 per km2. And we are low level bitching, that Austria overdid the intensity of the measures at the start of the pandemic. 

US is 36 per km2 but that doesnt count, because its a continent with "nothing" in the middle..  (overexaggerating) -- looking at that leaves me with appreciation for what republicans in the US actually are doing. Because population density in NY is about 10.000 per km2.

(Berlin: 4000 per km2, Vienna 4500 per km2, Kiev 3300 per km2)


----------



## notimp (Oct 16, 2020)

Austria: Standard yesterday finally said what I'm saying. 
https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...-schaerfere-massnahmen-um-lockdown-abzuwenden
(Government tries to prevent lockdown by setting behavioral measures that might be a tad harsher than in the beginning.  )


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 27, 2020)

We have here actual a very "annoying" Situation for our Country/People in Austria.

Our "Gouverment" discusses a "Private Controls" Measure.
This means,if an excessive/sprawling private "Garden or Cellar Party" takes place,the Executive should dissolves this "Event".

And of course,now a Disscussion is on fire for invasion of privacy,totalitarian surveillance State and so on bla,bla....

Instead of seeing this soberly and enlightened,the political Parties have nothing more to do than arguing back and forth and blaming each other...to get an "reasonable" Solution before the Lockdown happens again..
(Our Gouverment no longer gives any Information on this Topic,but the Damocles Sword hangs threateningly "very low" over our heads again..)

Around 2 Weeks ago we were told "The Capacities of the Hospital beds are LONG not reached ..."
Last Saturday it was said that "Emergency Beds" will soon be needed ... the same Nonsense happens again as in February, as we were told "everything is under control" and something like a "Pandemic" could not happen in Austria .... (I could bite my butt because I didn't download the ORF Reports from the ORF TVthek at the Time ...)

As maybe,many People maybe noticed,the last Week clearly shows:
Many from the Austrian Citizens can not handle personal responsibility,too much "freedom" and self-decisions....
You have to tell "them what they have to do".....
No matter whether there are the so-called "Smartphone Zombies" or walking,empty Human Shells without self-confidence...

We have now near November..9 Months later and it seems,we maybe have nothing learned..maybe.......

It is really,really sad......and that was felt everywhere today......


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 27, 2020)

We shut down over something with a 99.8% overall death rate and that was a mistake. We need to drop all of these stupid restrictions and get back to working, eating and entertaining ourselves. The virus isn't going away nor are you likely to even get a headache if you catch it let alone die from it.


----------



## notimp (Oct 29, 2020)

We have a number target, I repeat, we have a number target: (for Austria, to engage lockdown..  )
https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...r-mail-der-gruenen-jugend-im-kriegsmodus-will (german)

Oh god, this has become silly..  (Leak from a youth organization of one of the ruling parties... To which an official response was then formulated.)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 30, 2020)

Oh and by the Way.
The Covid "Traffic Light" is in the Meantime,of course,RED on the whole Country.....of course.....
5 Weeks needed...a very impressive Achievement for this small Country.

And it opens,of course,the Way for...."further progressive" Solutions/Actions/Restrictions.....

Thank you,Austria.


----------



## notimp (Oct 30, 2020)

But the Schools/education sector traffic light is yellow and... *I dont wanna deal with this sort of baby babble**entirely emotionally speaking*.

Another anti curfew portesters demo in Vienna is inbound, and the police and the city are arguing over who should ban it. Daily new case rate is near 6000, government is rumored to announce 'restrictions' but today both derstandard and diepresse talked about lockdowns being inbound.

Looking at the infection curve, and the reactions of other european countries, its understandable... We've to wait and see at this point.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Oct 30, 2020)

notimp said:


> But the Schools/education sector traffic light is yellow and... *I dont wanna deal with this sort of baby babble**entirely emotionally speaking*.
> 
> Another anti curfew portesters demo in Vienna is inbound, and the police and the city are arguing over who should ban it. Daily new case rate is near 6000, government is rumored to announce 'restrictions' but today both derstandard and diepresse talked about lockdowns being inbound.
> 
> Looking at the infection curve, and the reactions of other european countries, its understandable... We've to wait and see at this point.



https://orf.at/stories/3187362/

Nothing more to say......


----------



## notimp (Oct 30, 2020)

Second lockdown
https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000121321148/regierung-schickt-oesterreich-in-den-zweiten-lockdown (german)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 3, 2020)

"Side Story" Two and a half Hour ago.....for tomorrows Lockdown....

https://orf.at/stories/3187756/

Dead and injured after being shot

Secretary of the Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP) described the shooting in downtown Vienna on Monday evening as an "apparent terrorist attack". The large-scale operation is still going on. So far it has been confirmed that one passerby has been killed and at least 15 people injured, seven of them seriously. One of the alleged perpetrators was shot dead by the police.

...Coincidence with tomorrows Lockdown ? Sure.
Has nothing to do with it...I think.....

But this did not help us all in the momentary Situation....this Year is really not easy...


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 3, 2020)

COVID and Terror is a really bad Combination,but very effective for Panic and Fear...


----------



## omgcat (Nov 3, 2020)

notimp said:


> Absolutely.  Sweden is 'the control' in this comparison.  (Sweden is also 'the control' in the the 'do school closings work' case - because they were pretty much the only western country not to close schools during the epidemic.)
> 
> Here - watch this:




one thing to remember is that herd immunity goes out the window if lasting immunity does not happen. we know that asymptomatic reinfection can occur when someone runs into a mutated strain (i think so far 4 are running around). if covid immunity only lasts from 2-9 months, a vaccine is the only alternative to restructuring our society. like sure, only 1% die, but if this thing keeps looping around the countries because you're only safe for up to 9 months after, that 1% increases a lot.


----------



## weatMod (Nov 3, 2020)

ok this is really weird,  my post has just disappeared into the ether
no record of it anywhere

i guess someone here wants us to eat the bugs




Spoiler


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 3, 2020)

And of course,I forgot to mention,the Obligation to wear a Masks and the "Keep the Distance" Order is paused,because COVID makes a "break" ......because of the Terror....



What a crazy Time.....


----------



## Viri (Nov 3, 2020)

I read the thread title, after reading about European countries going back into lock down.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 3, 2020)

Viri said:


> I read the thread title, after reading about European countries going back into lock down.



Yes,we are again in the Situation...and now this Terror Situation in Vienna yesterday...
That's how it looks at the Moment.
But I think other Countries have actual also their "Packages"....so,we are not alone.


----------



## notimp (Nov 3, 2020)

omgcat said:


> one thing to remember is that herd immunity goes out the window if lasting immunity does not happen. we know that asymptomatic reinfection can occur when someone runs into a mutated strain (i think so far 4 are running around). if covid immunity only lasts from 2-9 months, a vaccine is the only alternative to restructuring our society. like sure, only 1% die, but if this thing keeps looping around the countries because you're only safe for up to 9 months after, that 1% increases a lot.


Yes and no. Depending on the vaccination rate - it seems to be viable to aim for 'renewed' vaccination every year. (Decent likelyhood of vaccination effectiveness being able to be stretched to 6 months. ('Winter months'))) Which means, depending on adoption rate, you can still go for those effects.

But you need yearly vaccination in the mix.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 3, 2020)

Info about the Assassin:



> Der Mann war einschlägig wegen terroristischer Vereinigung (Paragraf 278b StGB) vorbestraft und wollte nach Syrien reisen. Er wurde im April 2019 zu 22 Monaten Haft verurteilt, im Dezember desselben Jahres aber vorzeitig bedingt entlassen. Er galt als junger Erwachsener und fiel damit unter die Privilegien des Jugendgerichtsgesetzes.



The man had a relevant criminal record (Section 278b StGB) and wanted to travel to Syria. He was sentenced to 22 months in prison in April 2019, but was released early on parole in December of the same year. He was considered a young adult and thus fell under the privileges of the Juvenile Court Act.


There is a lot to be said about our laws - see the curfew from 0:00 today
I hope Austria continues his political "Line" to absorb every "rubbish" in our beautiful Country ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/oesterreich-anschlag-101.html

According to Interior Minister Nehammer, the perpetrator was a 20-year-old man who had an Austrian and North Macedonian passport. His name was given as Kujtim F.

The assassin wanted to travel to Syria in 2018 to join the terrorist organization "Islamic State" (IS). According to information from NDR, WDR and "SZ" he was in contact with German Islamists. During the attempted trip to Syria, he stayed in Turkey for several days in a house where two German and one Belgian IS supporters were staying. This emerges from the judgment of the Vienna Regional Court of April 2019.

In the afternoon, Minister Nehammer informed about the status of the investigation.

However, F. was prevented from continuing his journey and sentenced to 22 months in prison in Austria in April 2019 for membership in a terrorist group. In December, F. had been "prematurely conditionally released". According to the Austrian Interior Minister, he previously successfully completed a deradicalization program in order to obtain early release from prison. The *young man deceived the authorities*


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 4, 2020)

The Vienna Assassin tried to buy Ammunition in Slovakia in the Summer. 
According to Information from "Süddeutsche Zeitung" ("SZ"), NDR and WDR,the Purchase failed due to a missing Gun License. 
The Slovak Police confirmed the purchase attempt today in a Facebook post.
The Austrian Authorities have also been informed of the case. 
The Slovak Police received information in the summer that suspicious people from Austria were trying to buy ammunition. But they did not succeed in acquiring anything, the authority wrote on Facebook.
The Austrian Police were informed immediately.
There will be no further comments from the Slovak authorities in order not to jeopardize the investigations in Austria.
A spokesman for the Ministry of the Interior confirmed yesterday evening to the "SZ" that the domestic authorities had been informed. 
There was initially no information on this from the APA today.

https://orf.at/stories/3188148/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 4, 2020)

Mistakes were made....but now everyone is blaming each other again instead of working together on a Solution...



Two days after the Islamist-motivated attack in downtown Vienna, which resulted in four deaths and 23, some seriously injured, the political discussion is increasingly coming to the fore. On Wednesday afternoon, Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP) admitted official errors in the run-up to the attack. Nehammer directed hard allegations to his predecessor in the Ministry of the Interior, Herbert Kickl (FPÖ). He in turn did not spare criticism of the current interior minister.

https://orf.at/stories/3188219/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 5, 2020)

..and it is getting better and better.....
(Assassin Case)

https://orf.at/stories/3188445/

Eight arrested persons previously convicted Eight of the 15 arrested after the terrorist attack in Vienna have already been convicted of various crimes.
As Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP) said at a press conference today, four of them were convicted of terrorist offenses, two of various violent crimes and two of attempted honor killing in Linz.
According to the Director General for Public Security, Franz Ruf, the two men convicted of attempted honor killing received long prison terms.
One was sentenced to ten years in prison in 2012 and released in 2017.
The other at five years and six months. He was released in 2015. It was possible to identify the perpetrator (shot by officials) after only four hours, according to Nehammer.

Thanks to the quick identification and meticulous investigative work, the house searches were quickly carried out in the same night, said the minister.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh,yes,of Course COVID News for Austria.


Ministries report more than 7,000 new infections
The Ministry of Health and the Ministry of the Interior have reported 7,416 newly registered coronavirus cases (as of today, 9:30 a.m.) within the last 24 hours.
The new figures were communicated at 1:23 p.m.
A total of 132,515 people have tested positive in Austria since the beginning of the pandemic.
2,737 people have to be treated in hospital because of the infection, 407 of them in the intensive care unit.
So far, 1,268 people have died as a result of the infection, meaning 41 people have died within the last 24 hours.

AGES: 59,172 active cases According to the figures on the AGES dashboard, there are (as of yesterday, 2 p.m.) 59,172 active coronavirus cases.
The new dashboard replaced that of the Ministry of Health.
These are significantly more active cases than in the counting method of the two ministries, as those who have recovered are registered more slowly in the new system.
In addition, new cases are no longer assigned to the registration time, but to the date of the laboratory diagnosis, which may have taken place days before.
This makes the curve of the course of the epidemic more precise, but changes the number of newly reported infections that has been used as a characteristic value, which is still communicated by the Ministry of Interior and Health.
7-day incidence in 379 More meaningful, however, is the number of positively diagnosed cases over the past seven days per 100,000 inhabitants (7-day incidence), which is 379 (as of yesterday, 2 p.m.).


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 6, 2020)

We did it,we are on full Course RED,I am quite surprised..
...or should I say "Congratulations,Austria." 

https://corona-ampel.gv.at/


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 12, 2020)

Painted by Walter Molino in 1962:



 

Titled "Life in 2022"


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 13, 2020)

Unofficial (will be confirmed tomorrow) but unavoidable - Monday,16.November is "Full" Lockdown" Time again....

But this Time absolute not comprehensible to close School again.....
That will cause a little "Fatal Blow" to the Kids and the Society,for sure....

Commerce and Business too - yes,this will be definitely the "End" for many,many little Companies....
Some of the promised Support Payments from the first Lockdown have still not been received..

This Time,with this Decision for the Lockdown,Politics have really failed completely....

You can see it as positive as possible but this Time......


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...uell-mit-hoechster-neuinfektionsrate-weltweit (german)
I better not translate this one...  Too depressing.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 14, 2020)

notimp said:


> https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...uell-mit-hoechster-neuinfektionsrate-weltweit (german)
> I better not translate this one...  Too depressing.



Thank you,my Friend.

.....anyways it does not matter anymore.
Complete Lockdown for the next 3 Weeks...




Yeah,more free Time for Gaming.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 14, 2020)

As said,it does not matter anymore...what the Politics are thinking about todays (Saturday) Announcement ?
All People STAY HOME ?



https://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/3075971/



Spoiler: Today...



Big rush for business The reports of an impending hard lockdown in connection with the closure of most shops caused a high frequency in many shopping centers and shopping streets in Austria on Saturday.
Long queues formed in front of some shops. 
With the exception of supermarkets, tobacconists, gas stations and workshops, shops should close from Tuesday. 
The operations in construction, home furnishings and electronics stores in Upper Austria, for example, were correspondingly large. 
Mainly DIY accessories and Advent decorations were bought. 
Shopping centers, hardware stores and hairdressers Shopping centers in Vorarlberg, Innsbruck in Tyrol and Upper Austria were also “busy”. 
The parking spaces in front of hardware stores, furniture stores and electronics stores were already full in the morning. 
The high discounts that were offered by some shops are also likely to have led to the high frequency.
There was also a lot of activity at the hairdressers: According to the Linz hairdresser Gert Bachmayr, people have learned from the first lockdown and want to have their hair cut or dyed quickly.
The next free appointments with many hairdressers will not be available until January



And what they think of Monday before the Lockdown applies ? 

*sigh*

This seems all so senseless....


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

Kopf hoch.  (Translation: A little more muted: Cheer up.  )


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 15, 2020)

And there it goes,our Freedom and Independence ... like in the 1930s .....

The SPÖ will not agree to the tightened lockdown in the main committee of the National Council this evening. 
Party leader Pamela Rendi-Wagner considers an "emergency brake" to be necessary, but she rejects the conversion of schools to distance learning.
"The data show: Closing schools has little use and very large side effects," criticized Rendi-Wagner in a press conference. It also warned the government of “flying blind” into a third lockdown.
"If nothing improves dramatically in the federal government's corona management, then shortly after the second lockdown we will see an increase in corona cases again, you can't look that fast," warned Rendi-Wagner of a third lockdown.
Instead of the mass tests announced by Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) in the “press hour”, which would only bring a “snapshot”, systematic tests are needed in risk groups in nursing and old people's homes, health workers and teachers, the SPÖ boss demanded.

Very true Words of the SPÖ and FPÖ....

https://orf.at/stories/3189908/

The reaction of the FPÖ to Kurz's appearance was hearty: "First, ÖVP Chancellor Kurz puts the Austrians in 'solitary confinement', then compulsorily prescribed mass tests are to follow, which should then transition relatively seamlessly into the forced vaccination of the population," said the blue Vice club boss Dagmar Belakowitsch in a broadcast.




 

"An emergency brake is needed, but in no way is it necessary to close schools in Austria," said Rendi-Wagner, explaining why the SPÖ will not agree to the tightened lockdown in the main committee of the National Council on Sunday evening. Because the ÖVP and the Greens have a majority there, the government is not dependent on the votes of the opposition anyway.

Democracy in his purest Form....


----------



## Alexander1970 (Nov 15, 2020)

But as my Friend @notimp said,cheer up.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Dec 3, 2020)

Update for the next "Lockdown" Phase with Monday (funny,they say with Monday,but on the "Rule Board" with the new "Restrictions it says December 7th....I think THAT says all about our "Corona Situation" in Austria....)
This Restrictions will be expected until Januar 7 2021

- Shops are open now (Masks mandatory of course..)
- still "Curfew" from 20:00h to 6:00h  (8 pm to 6 am)

For this here it is again a little "Kabarett":



> There are Exceptions for the Christmas Holidays and New Year's Eve.
> A total of 10 People (including Children) are allowed to meet on December 24th, 25th, 26th and 31st, regardless of how many households they live in.
> The Night Curfew does not apply in these cases,so you can continue partying after 8 p.m.
> Birthday parties and anniversary celebrations are prohibited.



Logical to the highest degree - Corona also makes Christmas Holiday.....


- Gastronomy is closed - allowed is Food Pickup from 6 am to 7 pm
- Food Delivery Service around the Clock
- absolute forbidden is "Punschausschank" to People (Christmas Punch) - this will be controlled very strong !!

- Schools and Kindergardens are now at "Full Capacity" again.Children ages 10 Years - Mask Mandatory during Learning.
- Upper Schools and Universities continue to be operated by distance learning.
- The only Exception: Matura classes are allowed to return to Schools.

For the Kindergarten a little Side Note:
My Wife told me yesterday,they where "recommended" to go to the Mass Tests.
For this,you have to go to a Website (last Night for Hours offline by the Way..too much Traffic...)
and "register" yourself.Then she have to Drive to the next "Testtown" (for her 45 km - drive there and back again makes 90 km).
And it is "unclear" but very likely she has to do this in her FREE TIME....but not 100% confirmed...

In her Kindergarten are 6 Groups each with 1 Pedagogue and 1 Helper.
1 Cleaning Helper and 1 "Special" Pedagogue.
Actual are 2 People "missing" - because of Sickness.
Nope,no Corona.

If only ONE Test is positive,then the Supergau (translated with "Meltdown" ??) is expected to occur...
Happy Christmas Time for all little Kids.....



...oh and I forget:

Quarantine after entry.
As of December 19, a quarantine obligation applies to those entering Austria.
It is planned to classify the risk areas on the basis of the 14-day incidence of positive coronavirus cases.
All countries with a value higher than 100 are classified as risk areas - currently all neighboring countries of Austria are included.
People entering from a risk area must go into quarantine for ten days.
Free testing is possible after five days using a PCR test.
There should be exceptions for business travelers and commuters, for example.
The regulation will apply until January 10th, the main goal here is the Orthodox Christmas festival on January 7th.

And Austrians is forbidden to leave the Country,by the Way....


----------



## notimp (Dec 3, 2020)

You have to. 

Never heard of this?





"A Christmas Truce between Opposing Trenches" Illustrated by AC Michael. Published in _The Illustrated London News_, January 9, 1915.



edit: see: https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/christmas-truce-of-1914

If you cant allow one day of 'escaping reality' once in a while, whats the point.  You are dealing with humans, and the goal to hit is long term. Stay safe.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Dec 3, 2020)

notimp said:


> You have to.
> If you cant allow one day of 'escaping reality' once in a while, whats the point.  You are dealing with humans, and the goal to hit is long term. Stay safe.



The Point is - They do not have to wear Masks.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

Interesting interview on the situation in austria (Wolf interviews chancellor Kurz) (agree with the 'interesting' classification derstandard has made.  ):
https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...-in-der-zib-2infizierte-unterm-weihnachtsbaum

Watch it while its online.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Interesting interview on the situation in austria (Wolf interviews chancellor Kurz) (agree with the 'interesting' classification derstandard has made.  ):
> https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...-in-der-zib-2infizierte-unterm-weihnachtsbaum
> 
> Watch it while its online.



Thank you.I am very happy,that we have People like Wolf.

I do not understand how People can listen to this "Laughing Stock" from Cancellor....
Everytime he opens his Mouth,"something" comes out (like the "Gold Donkey" in the Fairy Tale...)..
But not Gold.....

Unbevlievable,how he "fools" us Austrians....
I know,why I usually avoid such "TV Shows" and Interviews....


----------



## Alexander1970 (Dec 4, 2020)

A very true Statement:



> Federal Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) justified the quarantine requirement when entering the country over Christmas, among other things with reference to the summer. At that time, "through travelers returning and especially through people who spent the summer in their countries of origin, infections were dragged back into the country." There is now criticism not only from parts of the opposition, but also from the Green Vice Chancellor Werner Kogler.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Dec 16, 2020)

WHO advises wearing Masks....

The World Health Organization (WHO) has advised wearing protective masks at family gatherings at Christmas and during the holidays to prevent infections with the coronavirus.
"That makes a major contribution to ensuring that everyone stays safe and healthy," the organization announced on Wednesday. 
*She admitted that wearing a mask around family members would certainly feel strange...*

*No na,ned....*
(No not a bit...)

*

 *


----------



## Alexander1970 (Dec 19, 2020)

Now it starts to getting really "Hitler" like again:

People who are "refuse" the Antigen Test where now "marked" with FFP2 Masks.
Also "locked" 1 Week longer at Home as the "tested" People in January 2021
The Police is ordered to control the wearing of the Masks....

And now......next Step - a "Bar Code" printed/tattoed on the Head for Vaccine Refusers.....?

....a clear Violation of the Austrian Constitutional Law....
and it IS unconstitutional once again
Our Government is really gone too far this Time.....


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 14, 2021)

Bravo and Applause. 

https://orf.at/stories/3197145/

Expert urges rapid action The British CoV mutation B.1.1.7 is likely to have already spread in Austria. 70 suspected cases are currently being examined. Complexity researcher Peter Klimek warns ORF.at that the time window for countermeasures is closing quickly. He advocates regional restrictions of movement based on the German model and better test options at home. The lockdown, which has been in force since December 26, has so far not led to a sustainable reduction in the number of cases.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lockdown is officially extended until 24th January 2021

How long do the Gentlemen want to lock us up ? Next Month too ? Next 3 Months ? The whole Year 2021 ?
(I really hope the Vaccination "Experts" and "Fanatics" slowly realize - the Virus can´t be controlled....but that is nothing bad........can we really control Flu for Example ?)


Time to go to the next Demo in my Neighborhood - of course WITHOUT that  Mask.
And after that in the next OPENED "Wirtshaus" (Pub) for a cold Beer.

Some can maybe comfortable wait,when Vaccination is successful and when the Virus is "no longer Dangerous" for Mankind....have a very,very nice Time in "permanent" Lockdown....

For myself: I let myself be fooled for almost a Year...


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 14, 2021)

These lockdowns will ultimately and negatively affect most the average citizens and small business owners, but some have the Lockdown Stockholm Syndrome so let them realize in their own way.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 16, 2021)

Wow - they are really panicked about 3 % from the Population in Austria...

https://orf.at/stories/3197552/

Large demonstrations against measures expected in Vienna Several rallies against the CoV measures have been registered for today in Vienna. Up to 30,000 people could take part. Heavy traffic obstructions are expected in the federal capital. Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP) warned against “radical groups”.

Warning from BVT expert

The anti-coronavirus movement is causing the head of the BVT's extremism department "massive worries". She sees the potential for activities that endanger the state, she said in one of the very rare interviews of the intelligence agencies to the "Kurier" (Saturday edition). She didn't even want to rule out terrorist attacks, “maybe not today or tomorrow, but maybe the day after tomorrow”.

*Two to three percent of the population would be enough to bring a state into serious trouble*, warned the long-time expert at the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution and Counter Terrorism. The movement - made up of objectors to the state, the “QAnon” group, right-wing extremist and sometimes also left-wing extremist circles - which also has strong connections to the “lateral thinkers” in Germany and the identities, is only just growing.


"Warn against underestimating that"

“There are many subjective feelings, for example about personal negative experiences. And there is a manageable scene of state objectors who mobilize very strongly in Austria, mainly through various online groups. There is then the potential for dissatisfied citizens who let themselves be convinced and go along with them, ”said the extremism expert.

The investigators are also concerned that right-wing extremists have been infiltrating the movement since spring. Only recently was a huge weapons depot with explosives discovered in this area. At the same time, coronavirus opponents are calling on the Internet to attack guard rooms and public buildings. “I warn against underestimating this in any way,” says the head of the extremism unit. It is "a mixture of everything that can discharge at any time".


----------



## notimp (Jan 16, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> Large demonstrations against measures expected in Vienna Several rallies against the CoV measures have been registered for today in Vienna. Up to 30,000 people could take part. Heavy traffic obstructions are expected in the federal capital. Interior Minister Karl Nehammer (ÖVP) warned against “radical groups”.


Well they have the shining example of the US now...  That said, and although it turned out not to matter the last time - Nehammers use of words isnt always very exact, and he is know to resort to hyperbole once in a while.

Also the BVT has been criticized in the recent past for not being on top of things, so maybe - some agencies are overcompensating a little - to get back clout.

Who knows.

That said, first time in a while I heard the state warn against violence connected with right wing extremism.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 16, 2021)

notimp said:


> Well they have the shining example of the US now...  That said, and although it turned out not to matter the last time - Nehammers use of words isnt always very exact, and he is know to resort to hyperbole once in a while.



No worries,the Demos are "halb so wild"....(harmless...)

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3085165/

A Few 100 People...furthermore:

Am Heldenplatz gilt wegen der Kundgebungen teilweise ein Platzverbot..
(The Sense of this Sentence is glorious)

At Heldenplatz there is a partial ban on the rallies.


And also the "Numbers" are still/again/again still/still again too high so....

https://orf.at/stories/3197576/

Herr Wagner said:
"General lockdown without exceptions"...

Well we're looking forward to it...


----------



## notimp (Jan 16, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> No worries,the Demos are "halb so wild"....(harmless...)
> 
> https://wien.orf.at/stories/3085165/
> 
> ...


Yeah, the mismanagement is obvious by now (not necessarily in the parts where it mattered to a large extent (just unsure, not that I definitely know) - aside from the impact school openings had, maybe (for wider parts of society), but still), and public approval for the entire administration is sinking.

(Mass tests were done to find clusters in the population you didnt find before - but then they werent that well attended (might not have reached those clusters), and cities like Vienna  already did those mass tests anyhow (in hotspots, so mostly coordinating with peoples workplaces where deemed 'needed'), to have them was decided without much rampup time, so the organization effort then, reduced the organization effort on coordinating the beginning vaccination drive (not that that would matter to younger folks like us, or in terms of mass immunity yet) - which was a small PR disaster in how it was handled publicly in the first days, getting tested to be able to participate in further activities ("freitesten") probably will not have the greatest adoption but was championed pretty strongly, and the public recommendation of FFP2 masks, which later turned into "well we dont actually have them in mass quantities...", was copied from Bavaria and is an outright disaster (because it splits the population into haves and have nots) - but at least the signal got out there, that now might be a good time to get them for your old folks (mutations (from northern africa and GB), ...)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 17, 2021)

Remember the Thread Tile ?



> *More Shops opens on 14.04.2020 - Maybe the Economy puts Pressure on it ?*



Now they make it "vice versa" give many,many Companies definitely the "Fatal Blow".
January was the most "Top Selling" Month in the last Years.

https://orf.at/stories/3197660/

Government announces extension

It is fixed: The “hard” lockdown will be extended until February 7th.
The government announced this at a press conference on Sunday morning.
In order to prevent the spread of the coronavirus - and especially the new virus variant B.1.1.7 - the government is also relying on an FFP2 mask requirement in retail and public transport as well as increasing the minimum distance from one to two Meter.

FPÖ Norbert Hofer says it completely correct:

"The People would no longer understand the measures and therefore showed increased "civil disobedience". 
Hofer did not see a good Sunday for Austria in a press conference. 
Experts should definitely be listened to, but also “all experts”, he said, referring to the social effects of the lockdown.



That is the height of Insolence:

"In view of the extended lockdown, Finance Minister Gernot Blümel (ÖVP) today announced a cancellation bonus - in addition to the fixed cost subsidy and loss compensation. This should replace sales of up to 60,000 euros per month. In addition, the hardship fund will be extended until June."


There are still many,many,many "Companies" who still not got their financial "promised" Help from last Year......
(Myself got it on December 2020......called Corona Hilfszahlung....near half of the Amount went back/was withdrawn to the State for "tax purposes"....is there anything else to say?... )


----------



## notimp (Jan 18, 2021)

FFP2 masks are now (starting on the 25th of january mandatory in austria for everyone in retail stores, public transport and public buildings.

So they obviously think, that allocation wont be a problem.

Stores are selling them without a profit margin, and people on low income are getting them free of cost (as to how, dont know - probably through administrative barriers).

On Amazon if you order them in high quantities, they are currently available for about 1 EUR per mask - also amazon will do the usual "free prime for 30 days, dont forget to cancel ( )", as they do for all medical products that are of importance to public health (they do the same, if (probably you match a certain order profile and... ) you order a blood pressure meter f.e.).

Just fyi, normally dont like to go the easy route, and especially dont want to shill for amazon, but this time cognitive "I dont event want to have to..." was big enough, that I ordered them there.

Amazon info should be valid for people in the regions around germany at least.

Lockdown is extended until February 8th (thats another two weeks),

and holding a distance of two meters is now mandatory (where enforceable).

So if you are from Austria, act now, otherwise 'embarrassment' a week from now, when you cant get into stores...

https://www.derstandard.at/story/20...-verlaengerte-lockdown-bis-7-februar-bedeutet (german)

edit: Children are exempt from having to wear FFP2 masks. (Would have to be smaller, are probably produced in lower quantities - are - harder to breath through, get damp within two hours of wearing them - so no touching them, ...)


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 18, 2021)

notimp said:


> FFP2 masks are now (starting on the 25th of january mandatory in austria for everyone in retail stores, public transport and public buildings.
> 
> So they obviously think, that allocation wont be a problem.
> 
> ...




....and the most important Thing:

After this additonal Lockdown and of course the Vaccination all will good.


Hopefully the Danish COVID Mutation Version C1.1.8d plays along with that.....
And the Spanish Version F1.2.7h then also "look away"....





@notimp Thanks my Friend,I already got a Package FFP2´s from Amazon last Month.

 

You never know, even though I have been shopping with my Underpants on my Face since today ...


----------



## notimp (Jan 18, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> After this additonal Lockdown and of course the Vaccination all will good.


Current outlook - another 'everything gets relaxed (kinda back to normal)' in summer, and vaccination reaches most of society until winter (which in Austria is feasible). Problems: Mutations, immunity 'wearing off' so in the long run you are probably looking at repeat vaccination drives.


edit: Additional information on FFP2 mask wearing (german):
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/wissen/ffp2-maske-wiederverwenden-das-muessen-sie-beachten,SLtTh6n
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/wissen/barttraeger-und-ffp2-masken-eine-haarige-angelegenheit,SM9Zq7P
https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ...A_Anwendungsfehler.pdf?__blob=publicationFile


edit2: If you want to buy austrian made masks:

https://www.aventriumhealthcare.com/aventrium-ffp2-n95-kn95
https://www.aventriumhealthcare.com/aventrium-ffp2-slim

to buy them, currently you can still google for

aventrium shop site:.at

see: https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000123395913/griss-um-ffp2-masken-im-lebensmittelhandel

Currently they are priced at 2 Eur per mask.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 31, 2021)

@notimp 

Now it "Starts" really...

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3087666/
(No need to Translate...)


----------



## smf (Jan 31, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> Now it "Starts" really...



Starts isn't the right word, there are dumb people all over the world since last march.

The police seem to be handling it well.


----------



## notimp (Jan 31, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> @notimp
> 
> Now it "Starts" really...
> 
> ...


Its mask wearing, politicized.

But the police now clamping down on a demo that the FPÖ has 'helmed' after previous ones were canceled... Thats new and interesting..


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 31, 2021)

smf said:


> Starts isn't the right word, there are dumb people all over the world since last march.
> 
> The police seem to be handling it well.



Not really "well" but ok,they did not have any Fault on this......Order from "Above"...

The Mixing of public Marches of Mask Refusers who only wants to "show" their Anger with "Right Extrems" People like Küssel..
....that is the "Problem"....


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 31, 2021)

@notimp 

Next "Step":

https://orf.at/stories/3199683/


----------



## notimp (Feb 1, 2021)

FPÖ getting "profile" again... (is identifyable in public perception (media)). And the thing is - the longer the crisis lasts...

Currently the outlook is 'late summer' for sufficient doses of vaccines distributed for them to show real impactful results (and maybe relaxed curfews a little earlier, as you've finished vaccinating old folks, and some might press into an direction of herd immunity again, ..), and nobody knows what impact the british or southafrican strains will have (partly because studies are still missing, partly because no one knows what percentage of distribution mRNA vaccines will end up having in europe, or how fast those strains will propagate)...

... this is going to be fun...

Im never banking on the fraction of society that rallies support with xenophobia - but FPÖ will grow in importance over the following months...

Hey, at least its organized..


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 1, 2021)

notimp said:


> FPÖ getting "profile" again... (is identifyable in public perception (media)). And the thing is - the longer the crisis lasts...
> 
> Currently the outlook is 'late summer' for sufficient doses of vaccines distributed for them to show real impactful results (and maybe relaxed curfews a little earlier, as you've finished vaccinating old folks, and some might press into an direction of herd immunity again, ..), and nobody knows what impact the british or southafrican strains will have (partly because studies are still missing, partly because no one knows what percentage of distribution mRNA vaccines will end up having in europe, or how fast those strains will propagate)...
> 
> ...



The other "Parties" (Red/Green/Black) in the Meantime do some "Disctraction"
ahem..more important work for our Country,of course...

- "Deportation" of some Students
- The actual Vaccination Age Discussion (not older than 64 Years....)
- Ah,yes of course,Discussion TODAY about the Lockdown Extension
- "Sworn in" Act for our new "Minister of Labor" Kocher
.......

- The huge Gas Explosion in a Residential building a few Days ago in Lower Austria was some Act of "Suicide"....
...

As you see,enough more important Stuff to do....


----------



## notimp (Feb 1, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> The other "Parties" (Red/Green/Black) in the Meantime do some "Disctraction"
> ahem..more important work for our Country,of course...


Oh, the whole country is discussing an extradition case, where at four in the morning half of a batallion of policemen showed up to remove a mother and a child from the country. The ZIB even had the feature interview with the elected representative of the pupils of her school the next day!

Whats your opinion? Write it down down in the comments below.

Even Robert Menasse had an opinion! And it mirrored so many peoples opinions from the comments, what a brave man!


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 1, 2021)

notimp said:


> Oh, the whole country is discussing an extradition case, where at four in the morning half of a batallion of policemen showed up to remove a mother and a child from the country. The ZIB even had the feature interview with the elected representative of the pupils of her school the next day!
> 
> Whats your opinion? Write it down down in the comments below.
> 
> Even Robert Menasse had an opinion! And it mirrored so many peoples opinions from the comments, what a brave man!








A not so "funny" Aspect of this Situation...
If you read Comments and Replies to Reports/News from our Austrian´s Citizens,you can see clearly some....

"Thing" we maybe know from the 30´s......
the "Law is LAW" Side 
and 
the "other Side"....
nothing really in the Middle of these two Groups actual...

And how "agressive" and hurtful/personal the "Discussionbase".....

.....not really desireable,but if you would put them actually "Weapons" in their Hands,I am not sure they would use it against the "real" Opponent,the Government.....


----------



## notimp (Feb 2, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> A not so "funny" Aspect of this Situation...
> If you read Comments and Replies to Reports/News from our Austrian´s Citizens,you can see clearly some....
> 
> "Thing" we maybe know from the 30´s......
> ...


You mean the subject is highly emotional? 

But yes, your description fits perfectly.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Mar 23, 2021)

Long Time no Update....not really necessary.....

But in Meantime,regional Cities,like Wiener Neustadt (Population around 45.000) are "locked" - People leaving the city have to show a negative Test....yeah..that Tests.

After 2 Weeks City Lockdown (Subject Wiener Neustadt),"they" had to "regret" - 50 % from the Positive "Nose Drill" Tests were wrong....

What does that mean in Detail ?

If you work outside of an "Lockdowned" City like Wiener Neustadt,you have to go

- Every Day through a "Control Point" on the City Limits/Train Stations/Bus Station.
(Later they only made "Samples",no Idea why the accuracy suddenly "eased" ...)
- On this "Checkpoints" you have to show an Negative at most 48 Hours old "Nose drill Test" or 72 Hours old PCR Testresult.
- If you have no Testresult - No further Travel,you can go home for a Test.
- Further many Companies and Facilities made now DAILY Tests (Nose Drill).
If you are positive,you must go home/Quarantine and call the Hotline and wait for the Testing Team and another 3 Days for the PCR Result (which was in many,many,many,many,many Cases Negative...)
- In the "worst" Case you had this Procedure 2 -3 Times in the last 2 Weeks....

I had to be "Witness" of 2 such Cases in my Village.
Nose Drill Test Positive - PCR Test negative.


So,yeah,testing is Fun...



For the Vaccination......you have maybe heard from the "Astra Zeneca" Incidents in the Outskirts of Raccoon Cit....Oh Sorry....wrong "Movie...


----------



## notimp (Mar 25, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> After 2 Weeks City Lockdown (Subject Wiener Neustadt),"they" had to "regret" - 50 % from the Positive "Nose Drill" Tests were wrong....


https://www.uchealth.com/en/media-r...sitive-or-false-negative-covid-19-test-result

The 50% value on the Tests in Wr Neustadt were false positives.

In short - locking down the city would have meant a massive impact on its economy - the major looked for a way around it, for some reason everyone had tests warehoused to the wazoo, so Tests it was..

Currently we entered the 'everything is a free for all' (when it comes to creative ideas to relax or tighten measures) until rates explode or go down, because of warmer weather phase imho. People are tired of measures, starting to not adhere to them....

Next implementation step is to do relaxations for people who are vaccinated, or those with negative tests, at a larger scale... But to be honest, I'll not be one oft the people at a test station every week.

Vaccine production is ramping up, weather is getting warmer - those are the things I'm looking forward to.


----------

