# Huawei now without Play Store and without ARM chips



## notimp (May 22, 2019)

We bring you democracy, they said.
We'll give you open markets, they said.

*wink*

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/22/18635326/huawei-arm-chip-designs-business-suspension

'merica! 


Spoiler



Trade wars!


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## leon315 (May 22, 2019)

ok, Huawei seems has already a backup plan: it's been years they are developing their own OS, and it has already used in some models released in China, and seems they will have some agreement with AMR, which is partially owned by taiwanese....

Hard time for huawei indeed but seems they are well prepared.

What you say, TC are u with Trump's war cauz China's enemy is friend of Japan?


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## NutymcNuty (May 22, 2019)

I don't get why people are mad, the us government is spying on just about everyone why can't china do it too? (if it is true the spying.)


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## Chary (May 22, 2019)

Just got a Huawei phone yesterday.

Awkwaaaaaaard.

But really, this feels like it's going a bit too far. Everyone's trying to screw this company over when they're one of the biggest phone makers.


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## leon315 (May 22, 2019)

NutymcNuty said:


> I don't get why people are mad, the us government is spying on just about everyone why can't china do it too? (if it is true the spying.)


people has very short memories, clearly they have already forgotten all Snowden 's leaks....


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## ghjfdtg (May 22, 2019)

*cough* RISC-V *cough*


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## chrisrlink (May 22, 2019)

I'm more worried bout "other devices" (play-asia,flash-carts) trump is stupid might as well blockade all imports for every forign nation and see how "self sufficent" the US is 



Spoiler



"we're not"


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## SG854 (May 22, 2019)

The rich and wealthy use the Huawei and the invisible poor uses iPhones in China.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...ide-between-poor-apple-iphone-and-rich-huawei


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## leon315 (May 22, 2019)

Chary said:


> Just got a Huawei phone yesterday.
> 
> Awkwaaaaaaard.
> 
> But really, this feels like it's going a bit too far. Everyone's trying to screw this company over when they're one of the biggest phone makers.


NOT ONLY PHONES MAKER: Huawei is responsible for earlier development of 5G connections, manufacture and provider: many asian countries like pakistan and india already using their equipments for mobile communication.

Trump aimed to eliminate NA companies' most dangerous competitor, for them to gain monopoly to the rest of world.


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## smileyhead (May 22, 2019)

Too lazy to type again.

Honestly, I'm gloating a bit over Huawei losing access to Google apps. As a fan of stock Android, their OEM ROM was one of the worst and they recently stopped supporting bootloader unlocking, trapping you with their shitty ROM.Good riddance.— smileyhead 🦌🐇🍃 Pre-Debut Deertuber (@smileyhead1500) May 20, 2019


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## KingVamp (May 22, 2019)

"Don't want to be spied on, so I'm totally OK with even more people spying on me." No wait, that's not how it works.


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## notimp (May 22, 2019)

Come to speak of it, I recently set up a Samsung phone for a family member.

They now have a button on their handsets, that prompts you to (update the Bigsby App and) register a Samsung account and to do the same to deactivate it. And by deactivate I mean select the "activate by double press" option, because there is no deactivate. And if you deactivate it and then delete the Samsung account from your smartphone (which they only allow you to do if you also register and enter an account password - even though you are clearly accessing your phone), the button jumps back to activate on single press.

Also if you single sign in via your Google Acount, and decline access to personal information for ad purposes, Samsung pops you up with an additional screen - to "please verify" the two privacy options you just checked. The closest button to your thumb is a "allow all" - which is labled differently, and by default no items are checked - but by design it makes it seem like you'd have to check something on that screen.

If we are now talking about banning scumbag data thiefs, ban Samsung first. They literally have a physical button on your device do make you register a Samsung account, to get your data. And you have to have a Samsung account registered and activated on your phone - to "deactivate" the button (to prevent missclicks for stupid people).

Never cursed out a phone so much in my life.


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## MikaDubbz (May 22, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> "Don't want to be spied on, so I'm totally OK with even more people spying on me." No wait, that's not how it works.



Well we know the US already spies on us everywhere, I'd rather it remains only the US spying on me, and not add in China to the mix.


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## notimp (May 22, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Well we know the US already spies on us everywhere, I'd rather it remains only the US spying on me, and not add in China to the mix.


How 'bout Korea?


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## MikaDubbz (May 22, 2019)

notimp said:


> How 'bout Korea?



I trust South Korea way more than China.


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## notimp (May 22, 2019)

K, thats what the US told germany too. We went with Huawei gear for 5G equipment anyhow.


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## MikaDubbz (May 22, 2019)

notimp said:


> K, thats what the US told germany too. We went with Huawei gear for 5G equipment anyhow.



That's cool.  To each their own.


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## linuxares (May 22, 2019)

We need UBports... bad


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## notimp (May 22, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> That's cool.  To each their own.


Except if another state basically dismantles a company of course.

Just saying. 

(Not even campaigning.  

Ok, with this post I probably crossed the line. )


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## MikaDubbz (May 22, 2019)

notimp said:


> Except if another state basically dismantles a company of course.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> ...



I mean, pick your poison I guess.  We know we're being spied on, so choose who you trust.  I haven't had much trust in China my whole life while my feelings for South Korea have always been neutral at worst, nothing happening currently is about to change that now.


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## bodefuceta (May 22, 2019)

If they'd use open-source AOSP and store like f-droid on their phones, that'd be a HUGE win for the whole world.
If they supported RISC-V, that'd be even bigger.
Sadly I don't think they will. But at least open source is there to provide Huawei a solution if they wanted to. No one can stop anyone from using them.
I'm not surprised ARM decided to do this. The problem is that they CAN. Hopefully it's a matter of time we stop trusting companies to hold critical technology proprietary-ly.


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## ghjfdtg (May 22, 2019)

It isn't even proven china does spy through Huawei. It's the usual Trump bullshit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



bodefuceta said:


> If they supported RISC-V, that'd be even bigger.
> Sadly I don't think they will. But at least open source is there to provide Huawei a solution if they wanted to.


Many big companies are member of RISC-V including Huawei themselves. Quite a few chinese companies plan to make RISC-V based SoCs. It's not unlikely we will see the first smartphones using RISC-V in the coming years.

https://riscv.org/members-at-a-glance/
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/china-risc-v-consortium-50-members-2018-10/


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## depaul (May 22, 2019)

That shows how powerful you are when you're the world leader in technology.

I don't accuse neither defend Huawei. Sadly they can't do much about that. Using Google framework is a privilege, not a right. Huawei can use their own OS.

Maybe their best bet is to comply with US regulations.


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## SG854 (May 22, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> I mean, pick your poison I guess.  We know we're being spied on, so choose who you trust.  I haven't had much trust in China my whole life while my feelings for South Korea have always been neutral at worst, nothing happening currently is about to change that now.


Samsung washing machines is spying on you right now. They know what you wear. Run!


There is a lot for them to want to spy on in South Korea, and the U.S. since they want the States help to combat North Korea. Samsung Vice Chairman also faced trials for using secret departments to funnel millions.


Probably worse is the Chinese social credit system. And Britain more cameras per person then any other country except China. And they recently fined a person in Britain for hiding his face from cameras. No crime done, just hiding their face. Countries are becoming a massive surveillance state. Phones, Cameras, all watching you. No privacy.


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## Viri (May 22, 2019)

leon315 said:


> NOT ONLY PHONES MAKER: Huawei is responsible for earlier development of 5G connections, manufacture and provider: many asian countries like pakistan and india already using their equipments for mobile communication.
> 
> Trump aimed to eliminate NA companies' most dangerous competitor, for them to gain monopoly to the rest of world.


Try and not become another "Sri Lanka", tell Greece the same thing.


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## supersonicwaffle (May 23, 2019)

I really don't understand why people oppose this.
We do know that China will selectively modify hardware on specific orders to spy and that's for american brands having manufacturing in china. None of chinese manufacturing is safe for critical infrastructure. In my mind this also makes the notion it's not proven that Huawei is spying largely irrelevant, the suggestion that every piece of hardware or software can be comprehensively audited in this scale is laughable.

Yes american companies will spy on you but there's a difference when it's between NATO countries and countries running intelligence programs against your interest.


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## notimp (May 23, 2019)

Actually entirely wrong. The hardware mod story was a hoax, that Bloomberg Business week fell for. Presumably because they had government sources which fed it to them. (The second sentence is entirely speculative.)

Apart from that - Huawei in their 5G equipment has allowed for open sourcecode audits - even bevor Germany was calling for them, just during the sales patter.


Real story goes something like this - "bugs" are always better as backdoors anyhow (deniability) - and no one can prevent bugs. If you have an updateinterface into an ecosystem - building in a hardware flaw is the least of your concerns.. 


From the trade war perspective - the issue is effectively, that Huawei outpaced the US in terms of 5G equipment rollout. So they acttually are the market leader there.

Thats why the US want to destroy them. Only then follows a potential mass intake of data angle. Which isnt proven - but every "analyst" likes to sell his speculation there as fact. (Where as Snowden presented facts.)


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## DBlaze (May 23, 2019)

China bad, Murrica good.
Ban on Cisco equipment when?

Oh wait


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## supersonicwaffle (May 23, 2019)

notimp said:


> Actually entirely wrong. The hardware mod story was a hoax, that Bloomberg Business week fell for. Presumably because they had government sources which fed it to them. (The second sentence is entirely speculative.)



Thanks for making me aware of this, seems like I haven't kept up with the story. For context: Bloomberg hasn't been fed this information by government source but by sources within the intelligence community, which has sorta been feuding with the administration.
All companies involved and homeland security have been denying this has happened and there's really no way to confirm it. Calling it a hoax however, is like saying every journalistic piece that relies on anonymous sources is a hoax. As far as I can tell Bloomberg has refused to retract it and says multiple sources have corroborated the story.



> Apart from that - Huawei in their 5G equipment has allowed for open sourcecode audits - even bevor Germany was calling for them, just during the sales patter.



This is quite misleading. AFAIK the source code would be neither open nor free. It's a closed source where select entities are allowed to audit. This is a huge difference. Let's not forget that German telecom has an extremely sub-par telephony service that is a decade late to the party. I'm not gonna trust any audit performed by them. Verified independent audits will not really be possible.



> Real story goes something like this - "bugs" are always better as backdoors anyhow (deniability) - and no one can prevent bugs. If you have an updateinterface into an ecosystem - building in a hardware flaw is the least of your concerns..



What a load of crap. That's a seriously idiotic assertion. It's like you don't even notice that you're contradicting your previous argument.



> From the trade war perspective - the issue is effectively, that Huawei outpaced the US in terms of 5G equipment rollout. So they acttually are the market leader there.
> 
> Thats why the US want to destroy them. Only then follows a potential mass intake of data angle. Which isnt proven - but every "analyst" likes to sell his speculation there as fact. (Where as Snowden presented facts.)



Yup, still doesn't mean you should trust chinese companies so much as to put their equipment into core infrastructure that runs your entire country.


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## Taleweaver (May 23, 2019)

Heh...I considered creating a thread about this. I honestly couldn't tell how the outcome would be here on gbatemp.


Here's a somewhat funny thing: near the end of last year, those first rumors started cropping up...just after my company had placed an order of about 50 huawei tablets. And as tablets for end users are always a popular thing, we ordered a new batch of 10...just two days after this announcement.

Now...I'm not worried about that, really. They'll still get their security updates, and they already have their needed apps. "they won't get a future update of android" sounds scary, but really...how is that different from other companies? Google says that planning and pushing an update is the responsibility of the manufacturers, who are hesitant about it because they rather sell new stuff than maintain the already sold stuff. So in that regard, the only difference is that it's not Huawei's fault for ignorance.

That said...not having a full android, no play store and no youtube is a big thing in the long run (or even the medium run, seeing how fast the telecom sector changes). But why? I mean...those first articles were a joke. If there really was "an extra chip the size of a rice pellet" on those things, then how come independent investigators can't find those damn things? There was an important huawei director arrested in Canada, but what was she really charged for? And just before huawei got denied all these things, the EU also published a "sorry: we can't find anything" paper. I could snear that google didn't find it, but I think they're just submitting to the pressure from the government.

...and that's where I'm weary about. Why is this ban on huawei actually happening? I mean...of course, Trump is an asshole who is willing to risk the US economy in the off-chance to squeeze something more out of it. But plenty of his nutjob ideas were shot down before they became even close to reality (remember that wall Mexico would pay for? Do you? Do you? ). But I'm not so sure that this is something pursued by Trump alone. In other words: there is a trade war because the people in power want a trade war. And it probably won't stop when Trump is impeached either.


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## bandithedoge (May 23, 2019)

Huawei has a long history of not being a really good company. Stealing secrets, not giving bootloader codes... This is the final nail in their coffin. If you want high quality and cheap phones from China, just buy Xiaomi or OnePlus.


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## supersonicwaffle (May 23, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> That said...not having a full android, no play store and no youtube is a big thing in the long run (or even the medium run, seeing how fast the telecom sector changes). But why? I mean...those first articles were a joke. If there really was "an extra chip the size of a rice pellet" on those things, then how come independent investigators can't find those damn things?



I think you're referring to the Bloomberg report I mentioned earlier. First of all it wasn't Huawei that was affected but supermicro which is an American company. The Report stated that the hardware was only manipulated for certain orders. According to the report Apple and Amazon received manipulated servers.
All companies involved deny the claim and apparently the story closely matches a supply chain attack scenario described by an expert they interviewed for the piece. However, Bloomberg has not retracted the story despite Tim Cook demanding a retraction, Bloomberg is crediting multiple anonymous sources from the intelligence community that corroborated the story independently.
All in all the story can't really be verified because of the limited scope of the alleged manipulation. If there is anything to it, nothing chinese manufactured could be trusted for critical infrastructure.



Taleweaver said:


> Now...I'm not worried about that, really. They'll still get their security updates, and they already have their needed apps. "they won't get a future update of android" sounds scary, but really...how is that different from other companies? Google says that planning and pushing an update is the responsibility of the manufacturers, who are hesitant about it because they rather sell new stuff than maintain the already sold stuff. So in that regard, the only difference is that it's not Huawei's fault for ignorance.
> 
> That said...not having a full android, no play store and no youtube is a big thing in the long run (or even the medium run, seeing how fast the telecom sector changes). But why? I mean...those first articles were a joke. If there really was "an extra chip the size of a rice pellet" on those things, then how come independent investigators can't find those damn things? There was an important huawei director arrested in Canada, but what was she really charged for? And just before huawei got denied all these things, the EU also published a "sorry: we can't find anything" paper. I could snear that google didn't find it, but I think they're just submitting to the pressure from the government.



On a political level no one really worries about smart devices, although it is something that may be mentioned because the average joe can relate to it. Huawei also manufactures network and infrastructure equipment, aside from the 5G stuff they also do switches, servers, etc. They have made big efforts to get a bigger market share in the server market in the past couple years.



Taleweaver said:


> ...and that's where I'm weary about. Why is this ban on huawei actually happening? I mean...of course, Trump is an asshole who is willing to risk the US economy in the off-chance to squeeze something more out of it. But plenty of his nutjob ideas were shot down before they became even close to reality (remember that wall Mexico would pay for? Do you? Do you? ). But I'm not so sure that this is something pursued by Trump alone. In other words: there is a trade war because the people in power want a trade war. And it probably won't stop when Trump is impeached either.



No one has had a problem with Lenovo which is Chinese and has bought IBM's PC and more recently IBM's server division. Apparently there's serious question regarding the influence of the Chinese government in Huawei.
Either way it seems like you have to believe the conspiracy theory that Huawei is a Chinese Government controlled puppet to facilitate cyber intelligence operations or you have to believe the conspiracy theory that everything is made up by Trump to save US companies in the 5G race.

For everyone else it's pick your poison and I'd rather pick the poison delivered by our NATO allies.


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## Flame (May 23, 2019)

linuxares said:


> We need UBports... bad



stop trying to make UBports happen. it ain't going to happen.


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## Taleweaver (May 24, 2019)

So...just read that Trump implies that Huawei can be "part of the trade deal talks with China". Once again: when are you going to impeach this clown?

Look...let's take this logically: this whole "huawei is spying up everyone" thing is either true or false. If it's true, then that's a crime. In that case, USA is correct in banning them in as much places as they can. And then I don't see how any of that is excusable or even part of a trade deal. What are you going to say to Chinese representatives? "yeah, we got you spying, but ey...if you meet our trade demands we'll happily let you continue.  " ? Of course not.

So the only alternative is that this whole thing isn't true. That would mean that China has either no idea of what huawei did, or that huawei is innocent to begin with. and that it's just Trump creating a trump card in the negotiation talks. He hopes to gain more than China is willing to give by starting to take something away from them. This, however, only works if China WANTS to keep trading with the USA. And while on the short term, they might not have an alternative, it's not the sort of situation that's sustainable in the long run (basically: "if we give in now, how do we know that he won't pull this same bullshit the next time he wants something?").



supersonicwaffle said:


> I think you're referring to the Bloomberg report I mentioned earlier. First of all it wasn't Huawei that was affected but supermicro which is an American company. The Report stated that the hardware was only manipulated for certain orders. According to the report Apple and Amazon received manipulated servers.
> All companies involved deny the claim and apparently the story closely matches a supply chain attack scenario described by an expert they interviewed for the piece. However, Bloomberg has not retracted the story despite Tim Cook demanding a retraction, Bloomberg is crediting multiple anonymous sources from the intelligence community that corroborated the story independently.
> All in all the story can't really be verified because of the limited scope of the alleged manipulation. If there is anything to it, nothing chinese manufactured could be trusted for critical infrastructure.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. 

It's basically as you claim: all there really is, is a bloomberg article by anonymous sources. And rather than assuming simple corporate espionage(1), it is portrayed as "it's the entirety of China versus the entirety of the USA".

(1): this is assuming it's true to begin with. Unfortunately, the people smart enough to detect and trace this sort of thing are pretty likely to be direct (American) competitors who could use this to leverage external partners out of contracts



supersonicwaffle said:


> Either way it seems like you have to believe the conspiracy theory that Huawei is a Chinese Government controlled puppet to facilitate cyber intelligence operations or you have to believe the conspiracy theory that everything is made up by Trump to save US companies in the 5G race.
> 
> For everyone else it's pick your poison and I'd rather pick the poison delivered by our NATO allies.


That's a very good summary, yes. In 2003 or 2004, I remember a situation not unlike this one. The government then provided vague pictures as "proof" that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which would warrant America the right for a "pre-emptive strike" (basically: attack another country without provocation from their side whatsoever). There were expert teams in Iraq searching for those things, but they simply could not find anything. That news wasn't heard (or believed) in America, so the attack began.
There were no weapons of mass destruction. Much later, it was revealed that the agencies pushing it were pushed themselves into showing proof of things that were only "maybe" or "very potentially" traces of weapon manufacturing.

How is this different? It's not Iraq but China and it's not weapons but spyware. But it's the same kind of "we cannot REALLY prove it, but you'll have to take our word for it".
The only real difference is in the government. The USA was still seen as the victim of a terrorist attack at that time (btw: way to squander all your goodwill, USA). Nowadays, the USA's credibility is pretty much nothing. And that's all thanks to you-know-who: he lies and cries about being a victim so much that everyone not in his fan club has a "yeah...sure, buddy. It's all the fault of foreigners. And democrats. And black people. And your incompetent staff. And everyone not yourself"-attitude. So if I was a company (or a country controlling one) wishing to spy up on the USA, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity. I mean...even if I'd get caught: nobody would believe the main spokesman of the place.


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## supersonicwaffle (May 25, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> So...just read that Trump implies that Huawei can be "part of the trade deal talks with China". Once again: when are you going to impeach this clown?
> 
> Look...let's take this logically: this whole "huawei is spying up everyone" thing is either true or false. If it's true, then that's a crime. In that case, USA is correct in banning them in as much places as they can. And then I don't see how any of that is excusable or even part of a trade deal. What are you going to say to Chinese representatives? "yeah, we got you spying, but ey...if you meet our trade demands we'll happily let you continue.  " ? Of course not



It’s not that easy, stopping all electronics manufacturing in China would have massive consequences for the US economy.



> So the only alternative is that this whole thing isn't true. That would mean that China has either no idea of what huawei did, or that huawei is innocent to begin with. and that it's just Trump creating a trump card in the negotiation talks. He hopes to gain more than China is willing to give by starting to take something away from them. This, however, only works if China WANTS to keep trading with the USA. And while on the short term, they might not have an alternative, it's not the sort of situation that's sustainable in the long run (basically: "if we give in now, how do we know that he won't pull this same bullshit the next time he wants something?").



By that you’re also suggesting that China limits its cyber operations efforts to their own boundaries or only use means outside of the supply chain. That’s very naive. 




> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> It's basically as you claim: all there really is, is a bloomberg article by anonymous sources. And rather than assuming simple corporate espionage(1), it is portrayed as "it's the entirety of China versus the entirety of the USA".



Isn’t that the point of collectivism / communism? It’s not really a hard leap to make. It is an authoritarian regime after all. 



> (1): this is assuming it's true to begin with. Unfortunately, the people smart enough to detect and trace this sort of thing are pretty likely to be direct (American) competitors who could use this to leverage external partners out of contracts



The problem here is the minuscule scale of it. Even if you were smart enough you still need access to the machines. If it was only on select orders they’re likely either destroyed or under seal.
Data protection scandals bear the risk of a significant economic fallout. Just look at Facebook.



> That's a very good summary, yes. In 2003 or 2004, I remember a situation not unlike this one. The government then provided vague pictures as "proof" that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which would warrant America the right for a "pre-emptive strike" (basically: attack another country without provocation from their side whatsoever). There were expert teams in Iraq searching for those things, but they simply could not find anything. That news wasn't heard (or believed) in America, so the attack began.
> There were no weapons of mass destruction. Much later, it was revealed that the agencies pushing it were pushed themselves into showing proof of things that were only "maybe" or "very potentially" traces of weapon manufacturing.
> 
> How is this different? It's not Iraq but China and it's not weapons but spyware. But it's the same kind of "we cannot REALLY prove it, but you'll have to take our word for it".
> The only real difference is in the government. The USA was still seen as the victim of a terrorist attack at that time (btw: way to squander all your goodwill, USA). Nowadays, the USA's credibility is pretty much nothing. And that's all thanks to you-know-who: he lies and cries about being a victim so much that everyone not in his fan club has a "yeah...sure, buddy. It's all the fault of foreigners. And democrats. And black people. And your incompetent staff. And everyone not yourself"-attitude. So if I was a company (or a country controlling one) wishing to spy up on the USA, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity. I mean...even if I'd get caught: nobody would believe the main spokesman of the place.



And a lot of western countries didn’t buy their BS.
This has a lot higher direct risk for western civilization and more specifically the EU attached to it.
TBH I would have loved if the EU was competitive in this market but sadly it isn’t. The only somewhat promising company I can think of off the top of my head has been stuck in development hell with porting their stuff over from an ancient Linux kernel. And the we would still be missing 5G and other infrastructure technology.


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## Joe88 (May 25, 2019)

Add micro sd cards to the list
https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/24/huawei-sd-association-ban/


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## notimp (May 29, 2019)

But what happens to my smartphone!? And no interest in that topic anymore.

gbatemp - living fpr the watercooler moment of every newsitem - we dont care to follow up on any story.

China has now hit back with "america doesnt need rare earths, doesnt it?" supply chain war announcements. There they are on the longer leaver.

Ups. What does this mean for your smartphone?

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-rare-earth-hint-trade-war-2019-5
and
http://fortune.com/2019/05/29/china-rare-earth-metals-trade-war/

Follow up on stories, would you?

Doesnt kill you to do that, does it?

But 50% of you would still shout "fake news media" without showing an sign of media literacy. All just mostly interested in the emotional payoff of a story. Let it have babies in them. Then the engagement is high.


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## Xzi (May 29, 2019)

notimp said:


> But what happens to my smartphone!? And no interest in that topic anymore.


This isn't exactly the same topic, you've veered off to the trade war.  Which I absolutely agree is dumb as shit, but there's nothing we can do about it except watch in horror while a man with a goldfish-sized brain sets up all our economic and trade policies to crash and burn.  China is winning the trade war, and they still have a lot more cards left to play.


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## tbb043 (May 29, 2019)

who what? where do people even buy this shit from? random internet sites?


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