# I don't care, I believe Putin --Trump



## Noctosphere (Feb 18, 2019)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-us-advice-on-north-korea-threat-says-mccabe

So, another bullshit from Trump
Apparently, Trump believe Putin over Us intelligences about North Korea
FFS, North Korea is a threat, and he is friendly with it?
And Putin is a manipulator
If US gets bombed, it will all be on Trump


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## chrisrlink (Feb 18, 2019)

remember this is the guy that wanted inaguration day a national holiday just that alone scares me that he'll form a military coup with his supporters to overthrow our democracy


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## Xzi (Feb 18, 2019)

McCabe believed Trump was compromised based _only_ on conversations they had, and that's why he opened the investigation to begin with.  It's definitely disturbing how many people are willing to cover their eyes and ears and pretend this is normal.  Trump has been publicly dismantling the institutions that safeguard our Democracy since day one, not to mention lifting sanctions on Russian oligarchs.  I've never had a single doubt in my mind that the Russians were successful in getting their Manchurian candidate elected, and the US may never recover from the damage.  Assuming we even make it through the next election, when Trump calls for violence after he loses.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 19, 2019)

McCabe's that guy who illegally leaked info to the media and then lied to FBI investigators about it, and was fired for it. Right?


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

How do you legally leak information, after Obamas war on whistleblowers? I've linked a video once, where Seymour Hersh talked about having to cancel his usual look back on the past administration book, because his sources where afraid to be identified. And thats after the politcal leadership changed already.

I mean first you fashion your information politics after that of a dictatorship, then you play the system to accuse anyone who doesnt comply?

What else do you do, if you are not betraying the interests of the people on your weekends?

People are not only supposed to not know what happens in their country - now its even made illegal - and then supposedly amoral, by popular voices like you?

How does this work exactly? Please elaborate.


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## Taleweaver (Feb 19, 2019)

...why does this not surprise me? 

Oh, wait...of course: I already knew. And...erm...I know that Helsinki performance isn't really proof, but c'mon...this is old news.



Xzi said:


> Trump has been publicly dismantling the institutions that safeguard our Democracy since day one...


Sorry, but after reading up on this, I got to somewhat disagree on this. To be correct, it would've been somewhat like this:

Trump has been publicly dismantling the institutions that safeguard our Democracy *since, say, a couple weeks after inauguration*...


It's a shimmer of hope. Yes, he's hellbent on tearing down the government. But due to his own incompetence, he's just not doing a good job at it.

(the full story is like this: nearing the end of the election, all remaining candidates were requested to draft up teams that would take over the institutions in the event that they won. For Donald Trump, this was done by a man named Chris Christie. They were supposedly friends, so C.C. did the best he could to draft up loyal, intelligent and decent people. However: shortly after inauguration day, Christie was taken aside and fired. That list was thrown away, and those institutions reportedly waited entire days and even weeks for the delegation to arrive (meaning: everyone just went about in the same way as before by lack of instructions otherwise). A delegation that was half-hazard and seriously under prepared of what their departments actually DID.)




Hanafuda said:


> McCabe's that guy who illegally leaked info to the media and then lied to FBI investigators about it, and was fired for it. Right?


I think the proper question here would be "was his information correct?"(1).

Now I now we have different priorities when it comes to which information should be known to the public. I always saw "the secretary of state used her own mail server rather than the one from the white house" as a rather 'meh' criteria. We can disagree on that. But right now it's "the president of the united states trusts Russia's leader over his own agencies". Can we please skip the pretension that that is somehow a trivial tidbit of information?

(1): oh, and...for the record: you're wrong. He was fired for the investigation on Donald Trump. here's both our sides on the story. Are you going to believe the narrative that Trump's puppet dictated, or the one that matches up with reality?


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## RaptorDMG (Feb 19, 2019)

Why do people consider North Korea to pose such a threat to the US?


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

RaptorDMG said:


> Why do people consider North Korea to pose such a threat to the US?


Two answers, a short and a long one. 

Short one: Because it has nuclear bombs, and long range missiles to reach the US (and its allies).

Long answer: The US basically tried to annex the country in 1950 (officially worded version see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea–United_States_relations ) which led to the korean war, which split the country in half. North korea kept active relations with china and russia, and the leadership decided - after taking a loooong look at almost loosing their country to "western influence" - while the US actively showed military presence in south korea - that the only way to keep sovereignty long term, was to develop atom bombs.

So they asked the chinese, but the chinese where *meh*, so they asked the russians, and the russians were in the middle of the cold war - so they said *ok*, and then NK got their first reactor, which lead to three reactors, which lead to the atom bomb, by a time where the US where *whatever* because they had bigger international issues at the time.

So the wests answer was alway sanctions (ruin their economy) and keep them from developing more nuclear cpability - but NK still had good relations with china and russia, and managed to stay on their development trajectory.

After they had the bomb Clinton was supposed to talk to them, but negotiations were postponed, then Bush didn't care and wanted to play strongman instead, then Obama didnt want to care either - but sent inspectors, and inspectors found 1000s of centrifuges instead of hundreds - meaning, they likely have 20-100 warheads by now. Then they developed long range missile tech, and now the US cares again. And negotiations start over.

US still says they are "axis of evil" and have their economy ruined with embargos. All of this will go away - and they will become "friends" in the next few years - because of the discussion argument "atom bomb". Also - they will stay sovereign. Then start negotiations with SK over potential harmonization of relationships.

Basically the US threatened to nuke them off the planet with first strikes three times, until they couldnt without NK threatening to nuke the US then as well - then tactics changed.

The tactical thinking of NK was reasonable btw. nuclear weapons allow nations to stay sovereign, because of the threat to basically trigger atom wars, which no one is a fan of, so you stop threatening to take over those countries. All of a sudden you smile, and they are best buddies.

Thats whats happening currently.

Risk of NK nuking the US? Low. No world leader wants to be seen to have triggered nuclear annihilation (retaliation, and then the world goes by - by), so its usually only a power play to be able to belong to a club of nations, everyone takes seriously. And doesnt invade.

Plans to nuke NK always projected having half of the SK population dead as well, so US presidents din't want to do that. It was close though.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 19, 2019)

i think you should reword it the IS is probably insane enough to nuke numberous countries so Iran is the bigger threat cause of ties to IS


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

First the IS doesnt have nuclear bombs.
Second the IS doesnt have missile silos.
Third no one is insane enough to nuke "several countries", stop watching Disney movies. (Marvel, Star Wars, ..  )

Iran is seen as on the verge of being able to develop nuclear weapons.

Now here is the deal. While the US (has nothing to do with Trump), goes "buddy buddy" with north korea (because of nuclear bombs), they still want to invade iran (because on the verge of getting nuclear bombs).

Europeans dont want to - we basically want to speak with iran, and give it the korean buddy, buddy treatment. But the US dont like.

The US dont like, because they want to keep influence in the region, while they are retreating militarily. Their local outpost int he region is israel, which got gifted their nuclear bombs, by the americans.

But in the region, israel has a legitimacy issue, because it was basically founded by western interests on land that belonged to other tribes (well - they didnt have land charge registers..  ), after WW2, as a sort of reparations/outlook deal for jewish interests (part of which always wanted a home country, in the 'holy land'). So israel is in crisis mode by now (what if we arent the only ones with nukes in the region!) - shouting all around, that the americans have to scorch earth before leaving the middle east, and iran is something like their natural adversary - but really, only one of them. 

IS doesnt play a role by now. They are basically beat.

So you can leave the "terrorism is bad" narrative, and think about actually attacking individual countries again, as americans. ("But, but - they didn't celebrate us as liberators, for taking their oil on our terms..!") Makes things easier.. 

The reason why america is trying to retreat (partly) from middle eastern countries is, that they have spiked up oil and natural gas production within their country again - ruined the economies of some south american countries by doing so, and now have less interest in fronting all the cost that comes with dealing with local quarrels in the middle east (militarily).

Hint: You dont fight because of 9/11. You invaded the wrong countries for that... 

So "terrorism" really never was the cause for any of your wars or interventions. I don't know what FOX news tells you on a boring news day, but thats oddly enough the truth.

The only thing you did in reaction to the terror attacks was to start surveilling the rest of the world more better. Thats about it. Oh yes, and security theatre at airports. And you shut down Al Qaida, but you didn't even need to go to war for that. That was political deals and some covert operations.

Then you went to war with other countries on top of that. 

edit: You've dealt with IS (given military support) because of terror. Thats correct. No one wanted yet another regional power to be established amongst a bunch of failed states. Especially none that hated the west. Most countries/fractions agreed. And so IS was decimated. They also didn't have the best "region" to begin with. And an issue with money flow. And an issue with getting an economy going, so... yeah. I guess they never were 'destined' to be a factor long term. *sarc*


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

Forgot an important part. After WW2 Korea was split into two parts at the conference of Jalta. The south (45 Mio people) became US protectorate, the north (25 Mio people) became a russian protectorate. So thats actually the "beginning" of the land being split into two.

(Before that Korea was a Japanese colony.)

Also the Korean war in 1950 actually was a proxy war between the UdSSR and the US. So both of them tried to annex the other. 

The north initially captured almost the entirety of Korea, apart from a few smaller provinces in the southwest, then the US and the UN mounted a counter attack, and took back more than they initially had claim to. Even reached China.

Then China mounted a counter offensive....

[...]

Voila, the current state.


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## Longshot56 (Feb 19, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-us-advice-on-north-korea-threat-says-mccabe
> 
> So, another bullshit from Trump
> Apparently, Trump believe Putin over Us intelligences about North Korea
> ...


This kinda stuff is the reason i´m leaving the US when i´m 18, for every good president, we get 8 terrible ones thateither get us into a war or almost does.


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## Noctosphere (Feb 19, 2019)

Longshot56 said:


> This kinda stuff is the reason i´m leaving the US when i´m 18, for every good president, we get 8 terrible ones thateither get us into a war or almost does.


Do you consider Obama a good president?
We really liked him.here in canada


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## kevin corms (Feb 19, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-us-advice-on-north-korea-threat-says-mccabe
> 
> So, another bullshit from Trump
> Apparently, Trump believe Putin over Us intelligences about North Korea
> ...


I dont believe any of them, cia, fbi, putin, trump, clintons... all not to be trusted.


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## Noctosphere (Feb 19, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> I dont believe any of them, cia, fbi, putin, trump, clintons... all not to be trusted.


The only one we can trust is @Costello 
Costello for potus!


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## Longshot56 (Feb 19, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> Do you consider Obama a good president?
> We really liked him.here in canada


Ehhh, some of us. Where I live, he got trashed on all the 8 years. But compared to Bush and Trump, he was great. Not the best, but still a good one.


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## kevin corms (Feb 19, 2019)

notimp said:


> First the IS doesnt have nuclear bombs.
> Second the IS doesnt have missile silos.
> Third no one is insane enough to nuke "several countries", stop watching Disney movies. (Marvel, Star Wars, ..  )
> 
> ...


Theres way more to it than that, the more you know the more horrible you will feel about it all.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Longshot56 said:


> Ehhh, some of us. Where I live, he got trashed on all the 8 years. But compared to Bush and Trump, he was great. Not the best, but still a good one.


Nobody should forget Obama covered for Bush like crazy, people tend to be so tribal they cant even see the forest for the trees.


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## Longshot56 (Feb 19, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> Theres way more to it than that, the more you know the more horrible you will feel about it all.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


True, I feel retarded now


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

Another concept to introduce to you at this point would be the one of "state institutions". Namely the reason why they US (and other countries) can work quite sufficiently, even if they might have a f*ck up of a president in power.

Also the reason, why Trump resorted to declaring a national emergency to get more powers granted. 

Concept is to develop strong branches of the state, with their own power structures, then pitch them against others (and the political and the legal branch (separation of power)), and in the end you get a state that doesnt need the "decision making power" of one person to keep being run.

Its actually not a bad concept...  And the sole reason, why america does still make strategically sound decisions in the foreign policy field. 

If I could give most of you one thing to remember, then it would be not to think about politics as "one person" or "the person". Its much more of an organizational principle.

People like to think about politics as "the person I can trust", but it really isnt. Bigger political decisions, almost never follow (inter-)personal logic. So the entire soap opera part of political storytelling (and journalism), is almost entirely useless.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 19, 2019)

RaptorDMG said:


> Why do people consider North Korea to pose such a threat to the US?




I think it's not so much the direct threat. But it's not unrealistic that NK could do something very stupid that starts a much, much larger conflict. (i.e. US & allies v China & allies)


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## Noctosphere (Feb 19, 2019)

Longshot56 said:


> Ehhh, some of us. Where I live, he got trashed on all the 8 years. But compared to Bush and Trump, he was great. Not the best, but still a good one.


Come to Canada, it's full of anti-trumpist


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## IncredulousP (Feb 19, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> Come to Canada, it's full of anti-trumpist


That waiting list, though...


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## kevin corms (Feb 19, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> Come to Canada, it's full of anti-trumpist


We have our own problems here lol.


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> We have our own problems here lol.


Someone stole the national maple sirup provisional supplys again?


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## kevin corms (Feb 19, 2019)

notimp said:


> Someone stole the national maple sirup provisional supplys again?


https://globalnews.ca/news/4951921/justin-trudeau-ethics-investigation-stephen-harper/ we have a giant liar who pretends to be virtuous. Identity politics are just out of control these days...

And Until the crazy lefties got voted out of Ontario we had this https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/s...ontario-sex-ed-curriculum-defends-porn-online , people were even defending his curriculum after he was gone but thank goodness the liberals lost.


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## notimp (Feb 19, 2019)

I love canada even more for that. I currently could think of no other country where this could become a public issue, based on actual ethics considerations, and not just on the public being fed up and blaming everything bad on the current political system. (In that case I could think of a few more.  )

The last sentence of that video clip alone "if the administration deems this to be important for this specific case, they should have to spend the political capital to explain to the public why..."

Thats enlightenment heaven. 

Here is how this would have gone over in germany (speaking half jokingly):

"I didn't know, that Siemens had entire departments for political corruption in other markets." "Well, now you do."


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## kevin corms (Feb 19, 2019)

notimp said:


> I love canada even more for that. I currently could think of no other country where this could become a public issue, based on actual ethics considerations, and not just on the public being fed up and blaming everything bad on the current political system. (In that case I could think of a few more.  )
> 
> The last sentence of that video clip alone "if the administration deems this to be important for this specific case, they should have to spend the political capital to explain to the public why..."
> 
> ...


Global isnt too bad of a media source, unfortunately people here spend more time consuming American media that is more akin to either far right wing propaganda or communist/SJW propaganda.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 19, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> I think the proper question here would be "was his information correct?"



No, the proper question is "did he lie to FBI investigators when interviewed about it?" And the answer is yes, he did. 




> Are you going to believe the narrative that Trump's puppet dictated, or the one that matches up with reality?




Who is "Trump's puppet?" IG Horowitz, whose report accused McCabe of approving an improper media leak, then lying to investigators about it? Cuz Horowitz was a holdover from the Obama administration.


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## Xzi (Feb 19, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> No, the proper question is "did he lie to FBI investigators when interviewed about it?" And the answer is yes, he did.
> 
> Who is "Trump's puppet?" IG Horowitz, whose report accused McCabe of approving an improper media leak, then lying to investigators about it? Cuz Horowitz was a holdover from the Obama administration.


Just stop.  Trump fired McCabe for two reasons: he started an investigation into Trump, and he was about 24 hours from qualifying for his pension and retiring.  So essentially it came down to one reason: pettiness.


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 19, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-us-advice-on-north-korea-threat-says-mccabe
> 
> So, another bullshit from Trump
> Apparently, Trump believe Putin over Us intelligences about North Korea
> ...



It will all be on Trump ? It will all be on *Political corruption*, silly .. Not just Trump only.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 19, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Just stop.  Trump fired McCabe for two reasons: he started an investigation into Trump, and he was about 24 hours from qualifying for his pension and retiring.  So essentially it came down to one reason: pettiness.



Oh I don't doubt that Trump was ecstatic about McCabe being fired, but McCabe made his own bed. The allegations of improper leaks to the media and lying to investigators originated with IG Horowitz - again, an Obama admin carryover - and the recommendation that McCabe be fired for these violations came from the FBI's internal Office of Professional Responsibility. Are  you alleging that either/both of those entities (OIG Horowitz' office, the FBI OPR) were acting as Trump's lap dogs?


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## Xzi (Feb 19, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Oh I don't doubt that Trump was ecstatic about McCabe being fired, but McCabe made his own bed. The allegations of improper leaks to the media and lying to investigators originated with IG Horowitz - again, an Obama admin carryover - and the recommendation that McCabe be fired for these violations came from the FBI's internal Office of Professional Responsibility. Are  you alleging that either/both of those entities (OIG Horowitz' office, the FBI OPR) were acting as Trump's lap dogs?


There are very few members of the Trump administration left that aren't spineless sycophants, and whenever he finds someone that isn't he immediately fires them.  So yes, I'd say it's very likely that Trump had already installed stooges in those positions, just like he installed a stooge at the head of the FBI after firing Comey.

If a member of the FBI is leaking info to put a spotlight on the corruption and criminal activity in the current administration, we probably shouldn't take that lightly.  Besides that, there are roughly twenty members of the Trump administration who did not qualify for security clearances.  Leaks could be coming from any of them, and Trump simply doesn't care because they're still on "his team."


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## Hanafuda (Feb 19, 2019)

Xzi said:


> There are very few members of the Trump administration left that aren't spineless sycophants, and whenever he finds someone that isn't he immediately fires them.  So yes, I'd say it's very likely that Trump had already installed stooges in those positions, just like he installed a stooge at the head of the FBI after firing Comey.
> 
> If a member of the FBI is leaking info to put a spotlight on the corruption and criminal activity in the current administration, we probably shouldn't take that lightly.  Besides that, there are roughly twenty members of the Trump administration who did not qualify for security clearances.  Leaks could be coming from any of them, and Trump simply doesn't care because they're still on "his team."




So, you’re just assuming things. Ok.


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## Xzi (Feb 19, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> So, you’re just assuming things. Ok.


Rather I don't take any statement coming from the Trump administration at face value, and neither should you.  They aren't even willing to tell the truth about Trump's height, so it's quite the leap of faith to believe they'd tell the truth about more significant issues.

FFS, just today we found out the Trump administration has been transferring sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without proper approval.  And they've potentially been doing it since the beginning.

https://oversight.house.gov/news/pr...se-grave-concerns-with-white-house-efforts-to

Essentially Uranium One, but real this time.


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## supermist (Feb 19, 2019)

Xzi said:


> They aren't even willing to tell the truth about Trump's height



And his finger length has been proven to be photo shopped in official photos


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## Hanafuda (Feb 20, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Rather I don't take any statement coming from the Trump administration at face value, and neither should you.  They aren't even willing to tell the truth about Trump's height, so it's quite the leap of faith to believe they'd tell the truth about more significant issues.
> 
> FFS, just today we found out the Trump administration has been transferring sensitive nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without proper approval.  And they've potentially been doing it since the beginning.
> 
> ...




Nice segue attempt but you still don't have anything to back up your assumptions.


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## Xzi (Feb 20, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Nice segue attempt but you still don't have anything to back up your assumptions.


McCabe's word is more trustworthy than the Trump administration's.  He says he was fired because he started the investigation.  You can choose to believe the sky is red for all I care.  It doesn't change the fact that Trump has committed obstruction of justice in plain view of the public countless times.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 20, 2019)

Xzi said:


> McCabe's word is more trustworthy than the Trump administration's.



Have already said it twice. Third time: Inspector General Horowitz is not Trump administration. He was a holdover in the position from the Obama administration. Your responses to this fact suggest you don't care and would argue up is down if need be. Later.


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## Xzi (Feb 20, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Have already said it twice. Third time: Inspector General Horowitz is not Trump administration. He was a holdover in the position from the Obama administration. Your responses to this fact suggest you don't care and would argue up is down if need be. Later.


The FBI is a traditionally conservative institution.  Couple that with the fact that Trump has had a 'say what I want you to or find a new job' attitude from the beginning.  Trump's administration has also continued to leak like crazy, so obviously firing the right people has never been the priority.  They only care about firing those that question Trump's ties to Russia, because those ties are quite obviously very real and numerous.


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## Smoker1 (Feb 20, 2019)

Trump + Putin = 



Also, I love how Trump, and his Supporters always throw that BS, "Fake News".
If it is Fake, then where are all the Lawsuits? Would be able to take them to Court for Slander, and Defamation of Character. Also, there would be tons of Retractions and Apologies. News Stations can not just say whatever they want without Proof and Facts to back it up. 
Also, look up the Requirements for a Einstein Visa. Then look at her Occupations when she Applied for it. Someone was Paid Off, Got Off, or both to get her Approved for it. In essence, she is just a Russian, Mail-Order Bride that had Connections with Putin long before Trump Visited Russia.

I do not mean to Offend anyone from Russia with my Statements. 
Our Country is supposed to be "Of the People, By the People, FOR the People", but lately, it seems like it should read, "We The Rich", and, "Of the Wealthy, By the Wealthy, For the Wealthy." Shit is getting stupid. The PEOPLE make this Country what it is. Not the Rich and Wealthy. If it wasn't for us, they would not have shit.
For those who throw out that, "Well if they Applied themselves more in School/in General....." . Even IF everyone was Successful in Life, there would STILL be a need for Truck Drivers, those Stocking the Shelves in your Stores, those who prepare your Food, Checkout Counters, you name it. Not to mention Jobs only have a certain amount of Positions available. So that 'Argument" is invalid.


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## LowEndC (Feb 20, 2019)

Noctosphere said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-us-advice-on-north-korea-threat-says-mccabe
> 
> So, another bullshit from Trump
> Apparently, Trump believe Putin over Us intelligences about North Korea
> ...



ok, ive been reading these types of posts lately on here ( i usually dont)
i hate to be that guy, but eh, muh freedom of speech.


===================================

when will you all realize that its all a show.
all world leaders are hand in hand.

"this guy says that -that other guy"
"these guys are bad guys - sincerely, the other bad guys"

its all for show and for money/land/assets
for tv ratings, investors, the underground military industrial complex

Nato would crush North Korea if they even thought about it.


remember when those bad guys with the big beards took down our Twin Towers so we hit them back?
when in reality it was just a false flag attack from our own leaders to build the base for a scheme to get an oil pipe line over there by Donald Rumsfeld/Bushes/foreign leaders etc?
coupled with the Osama bit and other events at the time, made this just oh so easy to pull off.


its best not to even meddle in affairs that aren't yours to meddle with
you will never, ever, know any truth.

the only way to get bits of truth is to get into the SIPRNet/NIPRNet/DISA or even more private cables and steal it.
just like Edward Snowden did.
bet you didn't know that we've actually been spied on via communications since the 60s.
but far be it from me...

Freedom of Information Act?  a joke.
National Security? a joke.
The war on terror/the war on drugs? a joke.
The U.N.? you guessed it.

The idea of government? the way they say it is? GREAT!!
The actual government and their operations, past and present? a joke.


As above, so below, and all that jazz.



and besides, if a nuclear war ever happens, the whole world will be destroyed. (2017 map, if its even nearly accurate.)
also The numbers do not include the roughly 20,000 plutonium pits — or vital  cores of atomic bombs— stored at the Pantex Plant, a US government facility in Texas that assembles, maintains, and dismantles nuclear weapons.

hmm.. Antarctica is looking pretty good this time of year..


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