# Do many people really HATE Apple that much?



## chris888222 (Apr 8, 2012)

Well... I was searching the web on some tech news. 

Whenever I see an Apple related article there are just so many blot load of comments that Apple SUXXZ or whatever and "fanboys" get fired up.

Do people really hate Apple that much? Personally I love Apple and Android but is there really such need of hate?

I know Apple can be really stubborn (Flash for iOS, expandable storage, restrictions) but I (at least) like their products - to me they last, and their customer service is better than any other company (not the best though). iOS is also simple and easy to navigate . Their products may be pricey, and that is one of the only main things I dislike about them.

I dunno. I really don't get why people are posting these comments. Am I the only person in this world who *likes* Apple products?


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## Clarky (Apr 8, 2012)

wouldnt say i hate apple, wouldnt say i care for them either though. always had the impression people build up this hate for them due to the way some people go on about there stuff like its a gift from god and that are no better alternatives


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## Qtis (Apr 8, 2012)

I've used Macs since the early 90's, sometimes more, sometimes less. Always alongside Windows. Now I've got a MacBook Pro 15" and couldn't be happier that I made the purchase in august '10. No real need for the hate, it's usually something not technically related to Apple products but instead the pricing. If people don't have enough money for something, be it a Mac or a new television, they usually end up saying that they would never even need one or even think of buying. Also that the new thing is crap.

This reminds me how people rage and laugh at Apple for making the new iPhone 4S (which had some improvements, not going into wether the improvements are small or big) and say that Apple just makes the same product over and over again. Doesn't every company out there? Kinda like laughing at Samsung for making the Galaxy S-II: "But you guys already made a Galaxy S!".

In other words, I don't understand people. Best part about this is that people defending, for example, a certain OS over another are always referred to as fanboys. Who's to fight over personal preference? "You think wrong! LOL!"


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## prectorian (Apr 8, 2012)

Doctors hate apple, cause it kept the patients away from them. No patient, No wage.
I hate it too cause I can't afford to buy one. The price tag for Apple products in my country is 2x more expensive than its selling price in the US or JPN.
Not sure why its twice more expensive here. And the price don't come down even after waiting for a year. If only its cheaper, I'll like it...maybe.


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## jarejare3 (Apr 8, 2012)

I don't really hate apple or like them, but It's those people who keep on saying Apple is DA BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEN TO ME! Or the people who keeps on saying WINDOWS IS BETTER THAN MAC! Is the one I can't stand.


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## chris888222 (Apr 8, 2012)

Qtis said:


> I've used Macs since the early 90's, sometimes more, sometimes less. Always alongside Windows. Now I've got a MacBook Pro 15" and couldn't be happier that I made the purchase in august '10. No real need for the hate, it's usually something not technically related to Apple products but instead the pricing. If people don't have enough money for something, be it a Mac or a new television, they usually end up saying that they would never even need one or even think of buying. Also that the new thing is crap.
> 
> This reminds me how people rage and *laugh at Apple for making the new iPhone 4S (which had some improvements, not going into wether the improvements are small or big) and say that Apple just makes the same product over and over again.* Doesn't every company out there? Kinda like laughing at Samsung for making the Galaxy S-II: "But you guys already made a Galaxy S!".
> 
> In other words, I don't understand people. Best part about this is that people defending, for example, a certain OS over another are always referred to as fanboys. Who's to fight over personal preference? "You think wrong! LOL!"



Well, they always have 'logical' backups. 

I also remember the time they compared the new iPad to iPad 2, and how inferior it was compared to the Asus Transformer tablet with NT3. Stating how "laidback" Apple technology is.


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## Fear Zoa (Apr 8, 2012)

I tend to dislike the people who associate with apple more then I dislike apple as a company.

That being said I do hate their business practices (laptops with non removable batteries, treating memory like its the most expensive thing in the world, refusing to support microsd, and overcharging for aesthetics)


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## Rydian (Apr 8, 2012)

There's a couple reasons.


It's often seen as "cool" to hate on something popular.  I'd say this is a current trend, but it's not.  The subject of what's considered the kind of popular to hate changes though.

People had a bad time with something and have a personal vendetta against it, whether the facts are on their side or not.

Plain old misunderstandings.  This is often the case when the people doing the hating simply have their info wrong or grossly out of proportion.  I've had people tell me they could get a laptop that's the same thing as a macbook pro for 1/3rd the price... guess how often they're able to actually show me one?  I've had people tell me Windows 7 has half the requirements of Vista... guess who never actually looked at the requirements?

Differences get blown way out of proportion in order for people to try to back themselves up on their viewpoint, whether the cause of that view is number one or number 2.

Wanting to appear "in the know", so they bash on stuff they see other people bashing on in an attempt to look like they fit in with "the smart crowd".  This is sort of a tag-on to number three, where people who decry (insert subject here) get emulated by others...  Unfortunately in many cases it's that the people who are proclaiming something sucks the loudest aren't the people with their info straight, so in an attempt to emulate "the smart guys", people will go around repeating total bullshit.

See many of the absolutely _retarded_ claims made against Vista early in it's life for examples.  I've had people tell me that files made on Vista couldn't be read on XP, that Vista includes microsoft keyloggers, and even this little gem.





> Vista was set by China who puts hacked codes and hack anyone who have Vista. That why Im very against it.


I know Vista's not the best OS, but it's another of the situations (like Apple) where _total bullshit_ spreads like wildfire.


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## chris888222 (Apr 8, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> I tend to dislike the people who associate with apple more then I dislike apple as a company.
> 
> That being said I do hate their business practices (laptops with non removable batteries, treating memory like its the most expensive thing in the world, refusing to support microsd, and overcharging for aesthetics)


I'm with you for this one. I like Apple as a company which builds stylish and durable products (to me), but people associated? I don't really care much. Their business practices are another main reason of my dislike, but that's largely it - and the prices of course. Other than the iPad, I find many other Apple products very expensive.

Speaking of which, prices of Apple products (maybe electronics as a whole even) have soared over the past few years. I dunno why, maybe cux of money rates but the first iPad which launched about SGD40 lesser than Japan - compare that with iPad 3 - same launch price (16GB, WiFi) and SGD30 more expensive (64GB, WiFi).


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## SifJar (Apr 8, 2012)

My main reason for disliking Apple products is their tendency to be locked down (especially true for iOS products, obviously not so much for Macs) and rather expensive (not necessarily expensive for what they are, but still expensive - I'm fine with "inferior" products at a much lower price). Although I do recognise that they put a lot of effort into making their software simple and easy to use, and know several people lacking in technological expertise who can use an iPhone or whatever with ease. And generally speaking, their hardware seems to be pretty sound as well.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 8, 2012)

Apple is an overly-aggressive and self-righteous company. They chase anyone who releases something even remotely similar to their hardware like dogs while at the same time they "borrow" ideas from their competition, they had the gut to belittle Intel in the age of Pentium II and look at them now - a few years later when they realized that they can't fit any more obsolete G cores, they released a campaign to welcome the Intel processors on Mac's. They praise their system for being safe while in fact it's just that nobody gives a sh*t about it. They're the only company who thinks that it's possible to patent a black rectangle. The only company that thinks abstract ideas like "icon" can be intellectual property. They sell obsolete hardware for more than it's worth and they release corporate spyware such as iTunes just to make the life of their customers more annoying. They're also the only company which tried to convince people that their product is totally not an mp3 player. "It's an iPOD!". Do I hate them? I pity them and their customers. Enjoy your system stability. No thanks to Apple, thanks to UNIX. You know, because Android is stolen technology that deserves to be destroyed because it's based on Linux, MacOS isn't because it's based on UNIX. Hypocrites.


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## yuyuyup (Apr 8, 2012)

Their Apple vs PC ads were extremely polarizing and insulting.  There is an air of superiority that is heaped upon the brand, and the fragmentation of non-Apple hardware creates a smaller tent of Android/PC/Xbox supporters apposed to one united Apple front.


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## chris888222 (Apr 8, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Apple is an overly-aggressive and self-righteous company. They chase anyone who releases something even remotely similar to their hardware like dogs while at the same time they "borrow" ideas from their competition, they had the gut to belittle Intel in the age of Pentium II and look at them now - a few years later when they realized that they can't fit any more obsolete G cores, they released a campaign to welcome the Intel processors on Mac's. They praise their system for being safe while in fact it's just that nobody gives a sh*t about it. They're the only company who thinks that it's possible to patent a black rectangle. The only company that thinks abstract ideas like "icon" can be intellectual property. They sell obsolete hardware for more than it's worth and they release corporate spyware such as iTunes just to make the life of their customers more annoying. They're also the only company which tried to convince people that their product is totally not an mp3 player. "It's an iPOD!". Do I hate them? I pity them and their customers. Enjoy your system stability. No thanks to Apple, thanks to UNIX. You know, because Android is stolen technology that deserves to be destroyed because it's based on Linux, MacOS isn't because it's based on UNIX. Hypocrites.


You sound like you pity everything created in this world.

Still, I get your point. I have nothing to say because I don't study so in-depth about their company/work system etc. Plus I actually like their products, another reason why I have nothing to say.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 8, 2012)

I pity hypocrites who stall the free market by getting hardware of their competitors banned and recalled just because it's better.


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## Wizerzak (Apr 8, 2012)

It's quite simple really:
Overpriced for what you get - I guarantee you can build a machine equivalent to a Mac's spec for at least £300 less.
The fact that they copyright everything. As Foxi said, they seem to think they can claim ownership to a black rectangle.
Oversimplified OS. Fine for people who haven't a clue what they're doing, hell you could give a Mac to a 3 year-old, have him click randomly and you wouldn't have broken a thing. Only problem is for people who do know what they're doing is that you are extremely limited with what you can do with the technology. You can only do what Apple wants you to do.
The way they state their Macs are 'virus free'. No, they've not. And they never will be. The only reason you don't get viruses is because people who want to infect your PC are going to go for the bigger audience (and thus more profit), i.e Windows.
Stupid things like the 'genius bar'. I bet 90% of the people at them desks can't do a thing that requires more than pressing 'rest to default'.
The way they act as if everything they invent is going to be the next big thing and push it onto every single user to ensure that it is.
The way they manipulate 'normal' non-techy people into buying their products.
Then having people who think they know things about tech going on about how the iPhone is superior to everything and how his Mac (that he payed £ridiculous for) is faster than my PC.


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## Kiaku (Apr 8, 2012)

Maybe this'll clear up what most people think about Apple: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple


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## finkmac (Apr 8, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> It's quite simple really:
> Overpriced for what you get - I guarantee you can build a machine equivalent to a Mac's spec for at least £300 less. Yeah, you can BUILD a machine with equivalent SPECS
> The fact that they copyright everything. As Foxi said, they seem to think they can claim ownership to a black rectangle. Every company copyrights everything. I think you mean PATENT.
> Oversimplified OS. Fine for people who haven't a clue what they're doing, hell you could give a Mac to a 3 year-old, have him click randomly and you wouldn't have broken a thing. Only problem is for people who do know what they're doing is that you are extremely limited with what you can do with the technology. You can only do what Apple wants you to do. This again? Seriously? It's been over 30 years, and people keep saying this. I use Mac OS X and Windows. Mac OS X has a cleaner UI, while Windows is quite convoluted.
> ...





> Maybe this'll clear up what most people think about Apple: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple


What is this... I don't even...


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## pubert09 (Apr 8, 2012)

Kiaku said:


> Maybe this'll clear up what most people think about Apple: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple


This is how I feel. I haven't experienced it, but I feel like they revise and release new products TOO often.
I would like big changes, like the new iPod nano that added a touch screen and made it super tiny or multiple changes instead of making a new iPhone with better resolution, then making another new one that's thinner, then making ANOTHER new one with a better camera Now I know this literally hasn't happened. It's just what it feels like. I feel the changes between multiple revisions could have waited until they make one big revision.


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## Kiaku (Apr 8, 2012)

finkmac said:


> > Maybe this'll clear up what most people think about Apple: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
> 
> 
> What is this... I don't even...


I guess SOME people just don't understand how painful it is for others to OWN an Apple product...


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 8, 2012)

I really don't think their computers, phones, or iPods are really that good but the iPad is kinda nice. It may just be an "oversized iPod" but it's still a bit sleeker than most of the competition.

I just don't like Apple for their dirty marketing. They don't fetch fans like a company like Nintendo or Sony, who sell their products to be products. People become Nintendo fans or Sony fans because they enjoy what they offer, whether it's Mario or Nathan Drake or whatever it is. Apple sells their products as a status icon. If you have the Apple array then you're hip, you're high class, you're cultured, you're cool. People buy into this and with that comes intense brand loyalty. Apple advertise as "the best of the best", even when their not, and when you believe that, you'll defend it (or make a point of it) until death. They'll refuse to use Windows, saying it's terrible, they'll think Android is shit, and they just won't accept anything outside of the Apple realm.

There's also the giant "mobile billboards" thing as I call it. You see a kid with a 3DS or a Vita and it looks like a 3DS or Vita. Unless you're semi-knowledgeable in this area, you won't think twice about it. But every Apple product has a giant Apple logo that's prominent and dominant in the product design. Even the cases for the things will either A) have a giant hole so the logo is visible or B) be thin enough so that the logo is completely present. It's so people know you have Apple and that you like Apple.

It's just infamous marketing tactics that seem to be more of an indoctrination or brainwashing into brand loyalty than most other companies who advertise to appeal to your interests, not to appeal to your status.


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## Hells Malice (Apr 8, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> It's quite simple really:
> Overpriced for what you get - I guarantee you can build a machine equivalent to a Mac's spec for at least £300 less.
> The fact that they copyright everything. As Foxi said, they seem to think they can claim ownership to a black rectangle.
> Oversimplified OS. Fine for people who haven't a clue what they're doing, hell you could give a Mac to a 3 year-old, have him click randomly and you wouldn't have broken a thing. Only problem is for people who do know what they're doing is that you are extremely limited with what you can do with the technology. You can only do what Apple wants you to do.
> ...



Preeetty much this.

Though really the only of those reasons I don't bother with iCrap is the price. You get a middle of the road product that has a gigantic price markup because it has a fucking apple on it. Awesome. Sign me up for that.
....yeah i'll go buy a product with the same capabilities for half the price.
The fans are just as annoying though. Diehards that just wont freakin' admit they paid twice as much as they needed to, just to get a status symbol. Nope, it's the best...that's why they got it.
Ugh.


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## kiafazool (Apr 8, 2012)

finkmac said:


> Wizerzak said:
> 
> 
> > It's quite simple really:
> ...



i agree with u 100%

and plus i love android and windows phone 7 and i wish iOS had more customizability but its the factor of the quality.
i love the windows phone 7 ui but it lacks in features like support from developers. 
android i like for the customizability but again there is a new phone every day with the same specs and in a few days it becomes old

and plus who ever said that they don't include flash in iOS, there is a reason that they don't include it. plus it is dead anyways for the same reason its not included in iOS


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## Wizerzak (Apr 8, 2012)

finkmac said:


> It's quite simple really:
> Overpriced for what you get - I guarantee you can build a machine equivalent to a Mac's spec for at least £300 less. Yeah, you can BUILD a machine with equivalent SPECS
> I could also buy a pre-built PC for the same specs. It's just when you're clever enough to know how to buy a top-end PC you're generally clever enough to build it yourself.
> The fact that they copyright everything. As Foxi said, they seem to think they can claim ownership to a black rectangle. Every company copyrights everything. I think you mean PATENT.
> ...


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## finkmac (Apr 8, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > It's quite simple really:
> ...


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## chris888222 (Apr 9, 2012)

Kiaku said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > > Maybe this'll clear up what most people think about Apple: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
> ...


The comic is true in certain ways, but a bit far-fetched. Not everyone on the street will change to a 4G and Apple only announces a product once a year. Not everyday.

The comic also shows selling everything in your house to get a new product, which emphasizes in how expensive their products are. This part is really funny, but sadly kinda true.

But in the end, you are not forced to buy Apple products, you are not forced to be kept within Apple's chains. They don't force you to anything if you choose not to buy their products. 

Oh and I found this: http://www.pcworld.com/article/202613/5_reasons_why_people_hate_apple.html


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## elgarta (Apr 9, 2012)

Lots of people do, but the "Fanboyz" or fans of apple products likely outweigh them.

Me, I personally dislike their business model more than anything. It seems like they gouge alot of money from people who just can't live without those small extra features on their device by releasing new revisions of the same thing.. Sorry, but the 4s? Really? Many business' are doing it, don't get me wrong (DS/Lite/i/XL + PSP 1000-3000, PSP go) but it just seems like Apple does it more since it is always in your face whether its through the media. the stock in a store when shopping or just because everyone else is going on about it like it is the new big thing.

Android is good and all, but I think some people need to remember that what you are actually buying is a different companies phone, not one from Android directly. So it is quite different and a bit harder to be pinned as an 'Android fanboy' since many variations of hardware exist, all done by different companies. Apple only does Apple, and nobody else makes iPhones or iPads. I don't have a favorite out of the iOS or Android OS, they both work and _basically_ do the same thing.

Edit: Clarified some text


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## Fellow (Apr 9, 2012)

People tend to hate Apple's fans, not particularly Apple.


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## kthnxshwn (Apr 9, 2012)

This thread is hilarious.


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## Schizoanalysis (Apr 9, 2012)

The more fan boys, the more hate.


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## Etheboss (Apr 9, 2012)

This is why ppl hate apple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAdu6GHV3tQ


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## gamefan5 (Apr 9, 2012)

Meh... I don't hate Apple 'cause it has never done anything bad to me... _yet! _XD



Spoiler



I'm neutral. Never bought any Apple products... probably never will.
Although, I hate Imac. (personal experience). 
Sometimes I'm pretty sure that most people (I SAID MOST) hate apple because of mob mentality. XD


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## Jan1tor (Apr 9, 2012)

I've used PCs, Amigas, Atari, Commodore, and yes Apple. I hate Apple products the most. I just don't like their architecture and how they opperate. I don't like the handicapped one button mouse, I don't like their hard drive. I don't like their networking, nor their operating interface. It just seems like one big pain in the ass compared to  the PC marketplace. And it seems like things work better with the PC market.
And there is a ton more software for the PC market as well. But that is just my opinion.


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## slaysme (Apr 9, 2012)

I can't really advocate macs, and iPhones are overrated, and truly the long term expensive product.........but man I love my iPad. Had one from the get go, wife got a 2 last year. We've switched now, because I use the extra power more than her, and screw y'all haters. It's awesome. Browsing, reading, comics, this thing is perfect. However, it's gotta be jail broken, with emulators and wiimote support...and I understand why it's not useful, or grossly overpriced. To some people. I've still yet to use a smother tablet, though. And there's no rush to get the newest one. Maybe the next one, maybe a different device. 

Btw, a used iPod touch from Craigslist started us on iOS, before that I hated apples iPods and other overpriced junk. Got it for e wife one valentines day, got another a week later. 

For reference, I also have a vita and 3ds, which I use more for gaming. Vita is awesome. I love gaming. And words.


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## Just Another Gamer (Apr 9, 2012)

I think it was summed up perfectly before but for me its that so called status symbol that comes with having a apple product. I mean you can have a 3DS or a Vita out and people would think your a kid or a geek or something but have an apple product then automatically your awesome, also they're bloody restrictive and controlling over their products and a simple example is itunes and  how controlling that is,.


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## Ziggy Zigzagoon (Apr 11, 2012)

I call security issues that Apple has, though I see the Apple hate little more than an operating-system version of the console wars (Microsoft vs. Nintendoo vs. Sony or Nintendoo vs. Sega vs. Hudson).


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## Luigi2012SM64DS (Apr 11, 2012)

i don't "hate" apple products. just their apps section and price


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## Deleted User (Apr 11, 2012)

I hate them because they overprice, their products are not worth the quality to money.


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## The Catboy (Apr 11, 2012)

I never cared for Apple products, they cost way too much and really don't do much to impress me.
Not to say they are bad products, they just aren't what I am looking for and I lack the money to buy them.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Apr 11, 2012)

I have nothing against the company, just their fan club.

I have an iPhone myself, but am definitely not an Apple guy.

Now just throwing it out there, but hating a company because they make expensive products/ poor price-to-quality ratio is kind of silly. No one's forcing any of us to buy Apple products at gun point. It is ultimately our decision. If you buy Apple products based solely for the status symbol or due to peer pressure, then you've lost whatever respect you already had, and the fault is in you. Not the company.

It's like hating Ferrari for making expensive cars. I mean seriously, who cares?


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## BORTZ (Apr 11, 2012)

I think alot us here who know more than the average bear can see through Apple ploys and silly gimmicks that they snare the general public with. 
-Apple comes off as pretentious and arrogent if you ask me, because they hype their own stuff so much, then gloss over the technical details, giving them names that a layman to technology can fap to. "retinal display screen" "Siri" "Duel core" and other things. 

I may be thinking way too much into this but i feel like Apple targets the less informed market intelligently. By NOT bombarding them with tons of super technical specs that grandma cant understand, they tell it like it is... kinda. Then make a killing off of the sheep they slaughter with their overpriced goods. 

Then there are those of us (me) who understand what they really are offering and can decide if its worth it or not.


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## chris888222 (Apr 11, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> I have nothing against the company, just their fan club.
> 
> I have an iPhone myself, but am definitely not an Apple guy.
> 
> ...


Pretty much this. I find that hating a company for its prices is somewhat illogical unless it's a daily life necessity.


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## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> I may be thinking way too much into this but i feel like Apple targets the less informed market intelligently.


Apple's marketing is some of the best in the industry, which is why when something they make flops, _it's news_.


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## Xuphor (Apr 11, 2012)

I hate both Apple and the people who think Apple is great.

Apple is now, and has always been, EXTREMELY overpriced on literally everything they sell, and most of the people who think Apple is great relize this, they just don't care, say it's not true, or give some bullshit about how the Apple brand automatically makes it superior to any other brand.

This picture sums it up well, and is accurate:







They directly rip off their customers, not just by a small amount for their own profit (ala Nintendo), but by a HUGE amount that is completely uneeded. Apple could easy charge half of what they charge for ALL their products, and STILL make a very nice profit margin over what Nintendo makes for their products. How anyone can know this and not hate Apple is beyond me.

The only people who like Apple that I don't hate are people that buy a high-end (or low end, doesn't matter in this case) PC with Windows for significantly less then change it to a Mac. They aren't retarded.


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## IBNobody (Apr 11, 2012)

I hate the company because Apple thinks it knows what I want better than I do.

I hate the company because Apple is too arrogant to admit their mistakes. ("You're holding it wrong.")

I hate the company because Apple has a significant markup on their computers.

I hate the company because it is "innovating" technology in areas I really don't like. I can't stand the whole tablet craze. It's just a big phone with poor game controls.

The only thing I like about Apple now is that I get to watch it decline into Microsoftian senility now that they no longer have Jobs to say "No" to bad designs.


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## kthnxshwn (Apr 11, 2012)

This is honestly like watching a bunch of people eating turkey sandwiches describe their immense hatred for ham.


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## Frederica Bernkastel (Apr 11, 2012)

Nobody hates Apple. People do dislike their business practices and their [lack of] originality however.


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## Xuphor (Apr 11, 2012)

Fredrica Bernkastel said:


> Nobody hates Apple. People do dislike their business practices and their [lack of] originality however.



See me post on the previous page, I downright hate them. Any company with such insane customer-rip off practices deserves to be hated.


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## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

Xuphor said:


> See me post on the previous page, I downright hate them. Any company with such insane customer-rip off practices deserves to be hated.


Don't you use an alienware laptop?


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## marcus134 (Apr 11, 2012)

finkmac said:


> They ARE.  As of this date, There are Zero (known) viruses for Mac OS X. Trojans abound, though.


 LMAO 


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> A program called "Elk Cloner" was *the first* personal computer virus to appear "in the wild"—that is, outside the single computer or lab where it was created.[15] Written in 1981 by Richard Skrenta, it attached itself to the* Apple DOS* 3.3 operating system



+ this: http://www.dailytech...px?newsid=24401 ( news about a recent malware infecting 600k macs ( April 2012)))

and this: http://www.dailytech...rticle21693.htm ( internal memo regarding malware infections and what to say to the customers (2011))

On a side note:
you make a difference between virus and trojan, but for 90% of the people, virus is just a broad term for malware. For the other 10%, the difference between trojan and virus is the self replicating ability of the program, as the results for the end user are the same (crash, data loss, key logger, stolen data, etc)


*Extra reason to dislike apple*, it's a closed platform both on the hardware and software side.
hardware side: create a monopoly in parts supply, apple can ask whatever price they want as there's no competition.​no competition on the device themselves, apple make few device and you have to pay the price they want you to pay for it. (monopolistic behavior)​
software side: mac os isn't as closed as it used to be but still not as open as linux or windows for running home made programs or codes.​ios is completely closed and you need to pay a lot of money to get your hand on a devkit, and if you want to share your program with other people, you need to get apple approval ( more $$) ( unless jailbreak off course)​

I'll also add the questionable use of Chinese labor and wave of suicide that have plagued Foxconn's factory assembling Apple's product.


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## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

marcus134 said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > They ARE.  As of this date, There are Zero (known) viruses for Mac OS X. Trojans abound, though.
> ...


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## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

OP, remember when I said a lot of people who dislike it dislike it due to totally false information?

This thread is a shining example.



finkmac said:


> They ARE.  As of this date, There are Zero (known) viruses for Mac OS X. Trojans abound, though.


Oh, I missed this?  Yeah, totally incorrect.  There's even Fake AVs out there.


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## Zekrom_cool (Apr 11, 2012)

Apple tend to make stuff that is limited only to their brand, like their bluetooth and stuff. Thats why I hate it.


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## kthnxshwn (Apr 11, 2012)

Their...bluetooth?


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (Apr 11, 2012)

Zekrom_cool said:


> Apple tend to make stuff that is limited only to their brand, like *their bluetooth* and stuff. Thats why I hate it.





			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> *Bluetooth* is a proprietary open wireless technology standard for exchanging data over short distances (using short-wavelength radio transmissions in the ISM band from 2400–2480 MHz) from fixed and mobile devices, creating personal area networks (PANs) with high levels of security. Created by telecoms vendor *Ericsson* in 1994,



And... You hate Apple for making "stuff limited only to their brand"? What? You mean proprietary inputs, software and hardware?

Heads up mate, many companies do this. Sony for instance, came up with proprietary memory storage solutions like the Memory Stick Pro Duos and M2 memory sticks. And lets not forget that the GBA SP, DS Lite, and many little electronics use proprietary charger inputs.


----------



## chris888222 (Apr 11, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> Zekrom_cool said:
> 
> 
> > Apple tend to make stuff that is limited only to their brand, like *their bluetooth* and stuff. Thats why I hate it.
> ...


I believe he means unable to Bluetooth data send.

But yes. Properitary formats are everywhere, not just Apple alone.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

Rydian said:


> OP, remember when I said a lot of people who dislike it dislike it due to totally false information?
> 
> This thread is a shining example.
> 
> ...



Care to show me some of these Mac Viruses?


http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=9400648&postcount=4


And the Mac Pro _is _outdated, It also uses "error correcting RAM"... Not exactly cheap.


----------



## bailli (Apr 11, 2012)

Just stumbled over this topic...

http://www.h-online.com/news/item/Targeted-attacks-on-Mac-users-reported-1486906.html



finkmac said:


> [...] Care to show me some of these Mac Viruses? [...]


----------



## kthnxshwn (Apr 11, 2012)

finkmac said:


> Rydian said:
> 
> 
> > OP, remember when I said a lot of people who dislike it dislike it due to totally false information?
> ...


There are tons of Mac viruses. I'm pretty sure there's a trojan going around right now. The only difference is that since Apple collectively makes the hardware and the software, they can simply issue software updates. Windows could do this too, but they have so many iterations of their one OS (home, premiums, SP1, SP2 etc) that it becomes increasingly difficult.


----------



## freaksloan (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't hate Apple, I just didn't fall for Steve Jobs Medicine Show.

Steve Jobs was nothing more than a Snake Oil salesmen.

Now Apple fanboys, I do hate them.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

bailli said:


> Just stumbled over this topic...
> 
> http://www.h-online....ed-1486906.html
> 
> ...



There were no Viruses mentioned on that page.



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> A *computer virus* is a computer program that can replicate itself[1] and spread from one computer to another. The term "virus" is also commonly, but erroneously used, to refer to other types of malware, including but not limited to adware and spyware programs that do not have a reproductive ability.



Again, there _is known _Mac malware, but no known Viruses.


----------



## kthnxshwn (Apr 11, 2012)

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=flashback+trojan


----------



## arogance1 (Apr 11, 2012)

My biggest dislike of Apple is the way they bring out something that other phones have had for 10 years and advertise it in a way that suggests they invented it.

"If you don't have FaceTime, you can't talk to others via video chat."
Well actually, I've had video calling for years.

"You need an iPhone 4S so you can use Siri"
I've had voice dialling on my phones for years and it actually understood what I wanted


----------



## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

kthnxshwn said:


> https://www.google.c...lashback+trojan



Trojan.

Also,
"On execution, the malware checks if the following path exists in the system:
/Library/Little Snitch
/Developer/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/MacOS/Xcode
/Applications/VirusBarrier X6.app
/Applications/iAntiVirus/iAntiVirus.app
/Applications/avast!.app
/Applications/ClamXav.app
/Applications/HTTPScoop.app
/Applications/Packet Peeper.app
If any of these are found, the malware will skip the rest of its routine and proceed to delete itself."​​


----------



## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

Grasp at some more straws finkmac, it's entertaining.  Wait no, the word I was looking for is "pathetic".

*Just because something is not self-replicating within the system does not mean it's not a threat*.  Hell, most infections for windows PCs nowadays don't fall under the "virus" classification either, yet modern infections on both systems are more damaging than ever since they change the way the OS works and can remotely send tons of information, including video feeds of the screen.  These are serious security concerns.

But just to shut you up anyways, this OSX AV threat list has some under the "virus" classification.
http://www.iantivirus.com/threats/

And to dispel the whole idea that OSX is magically more secure in the first place, here's an example.
http://9to5mac.com/2011/03/10/embarrassing-macbook-air-safari-5-0-4-pwned-at-hacking-contest-in-five-seconds/
(And that specific article references _another_ such situation from a while back.)


----------



## Wizerzak (Apr 11, 2012)

finkmac said:


> kthnxshwn said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.google.c...lashback+trojan
> ...









Do you not get it? Macs ARE NOT virus/trojan/malware free. AND THEY (nor any other PC) NEVER WILL BE (apart from maybe Chromebooks etc. where nothing is downloaded).

>There are viruses for Macs out there, I've had a friend who had one himself. Just because they're hard to find it doesn't mean they don't exist. (In fact, searching for them is quite hard as they're obviously not going to advertise themselves as a virus).
>Viruses CAN be built and infect Macs.
>The only reason there are not many is because there are so many more Windows users than Mac users thus it makes a lot more sense to build a virus to infect Windows.

Exactly the same thing applies to trojans, malware and w/e else you want to call it.


----------



## chris888222 (Apr 11, 2012)

arogance1 said:


> My biggest dislike of Apple is the way they bring out something that other phones have had for 10 years and advertise it in a way that suggests they invented it.
> 
> "If you don't have FaceTime, you can't talk to others via video chat."
> Well actually, I've had video calling for years.
> ...


Actually a lot of companies do that, including Nintendo, Sony, Samsung etc.

I request this thread to be locked before more complications happen. That was not my intention at all. At least I have my doubt cleared.


----------



## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah making a thread that talks about apple or macs is just inviting people who don't know what they're talking about to post bullshit.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > kthnxshwn said:
> ...


----------



## Chaosruler (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't hate Apple, they accelerated us from the Nokia era to Android


----------



## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

Chaosruler said:


> I don't hate Apple, they accelerated us from the Nokia era to Android


I thought Palm accelerated us from then Nokia era...


----------



## Wizerzak (Apr 11, 2012)

finkmac said:


> Wizerzak said:
> 
> 
> > finkmac said:
> ...



As Rydian said, there are 'viruses' for Macs. Just look at the list.
But if you want to be technical, I'm sure there aren't very many (percentage-wise) 'viruses' for Windows either. A self-replicating program is not as much of a threat as it used to be compared to other forms of infections that can harm your PC / steal your info.
Virus is more of a generic term nowadays used to describe anything that infects your PC. Stop splitting hairs.


----------



## Chaosruler (Apr 11, 2012)

finkmac said:


> Chaosruler said:
> 
> 
> > I don't hate Apple, they accelerated us from the Nokia era to Android
> ...


As effective as iOS was? think, one look at the OS and you'd guess what it was designed to beat, and it's not Palm


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2012)

Just a few words I wanted to add before the inevitable lock of this thread:

[yt]-ExNQ3iFhXc[/yt] VS [yt]hS1KXFL3hq8[/yt]

Oh? So the snail is suddenly cool, huh? You gotta "set it free"? YOU were the one who rejected it, Apple.

Excuse me, but this is just pure hypocrisy. First you diss the architecture, then you welcome it when you realize it's simply better for the task as if nothing ever happened.

[yt]A3oYVV5v51s[/yt]

Good job, Apple. In other words, you advertise that your computer can run Windows 95 but at the same time you reserve the right to release Mac OS only for Mac's, just because that's how you roll. It's good that you give people the option of swapping for a better (at least at the time) OS when you realize that yours is just not up to par. This commercial shows how Windows 95 was multiplatform and compatible and how Mac OS... was not.

[yt]TGLxjppFqeA[/yt]

Oh, you're not logging locations, huh?

ORL?



> 3. Why is my iPhone logging my location?
> The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, *it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location* (...) tens of millions of iPhones *sending the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers* in an anonymous and encrypted form *to Apple*.



That my friend is location data collection. You're trying to say that butter is not made of butter, and Jobs JUST SAID that whenever data is collected, the user is asked about it. That's a blatant lie, it's a background process.



> 5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
> No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.



Bullshit. You know exactly who sent the location data because you use it to accelerate the GPS/Location Checks on a SPECIFIC iPhone which sent it in the first place and you gather this data into a database.



> 7. When I turn off Location Services, why does my iPhone sometimes continue updating its Wi-Fi and cell tower data from Apple’s crowd-sourced database?
> It shouldn’t. This is a bug, which we plan to fix shortly (see Software Update section below).



Of course.



> 9. Does Apple currently provide any data collected from iPhones to third parties?
> *We provide anonymous crash logs from users that have opted in to third-party developers to help them debug their apps*.* Our iAds advertising system can use location as a factor in targeting ads*. Location is not shared with any third party or ad unless the user explicitly approves giving the current location to the current ad (for example, to request the ad locate the Target store nearest them).



Decide whether or not you are sharing the data. In one point you say you do not share it with anyone, in another you say that you're sending it to third-party,  finally you say that you use it in iAds. Make up your mind.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 11, 2012)

Chaosruler said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > Chaosruler said:
> ...



No, I always thought Nokias weren't that popular by the time the iPhone released.


Wizerzak said:


> As Rydian said, there are 'viruses' for Macs. Just look at the list.
> But if you want to be technical, I'm sure there aren't very many (percentage-wise) 'viruses' for Windows either. A self-replicating program is not as much of a threat as it used to be compared to other forms of infections that can harm your PC / steal your info.
> Virus is more of a generic term nowadays used to describe anything that infects your PC. Stop splitting hairs.



Again, I know of several forms of Malware that affect Mac OS X, of course, like on Windows, these can be avoided by being diligent.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2012)

finkmac said:


> No, I always thought Nokias weren't that popular by the time the iPhone released.


Don't know how the situation looked like around the world but here, after the "fall of Symbian", Windows Mobile had a very brief moment of glory and for quite some time this platform went head to head with the iPhone until Android was released and Windows Mobile based on CE became obsolete.


----------



## Chaosruler (Apr 11, 2012)

Symbian (which was bought by Nokia) made each Nokia smartphone look better then the iPhone does today, especially the N95, even after the release of N97


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 11, 2012)

The thing that bugs me the most about Apple is the whole mentality behind their infamous "Mac Vs. PC" commercials.  Apple attempts to brainwash potential customers into thinking that a Mac isn't a PC, but if a device computes/calculates and processes binary and hexadecimal information, and if it's personal, then it has to fall under the definition of "personal computer".  Not only that, but people who own MacOS-based PCs generally like to give the impression that they're better or feel more superior than those who have a Windows-based PC.  Besides, compared to the hardware one can get in a $1300 Macbook Air, I can easily find a laptop with better hardware for $800...oh wait, I already did.

MacBook Pro (2011 model)		   	
CPU: Core i5-2557M/1.7GHz								
RAM: 4GB DDR3-SDRAM 1333MHz 		  
GPU: Intel HD 3000 384MB Shared 		
OS:	Mac OS  Snow Leopard 					
Resolution: 1440x900/16:10					  
Price: $1209.00		 								
HDMI Output: Proprietary						  

Lenovo IdeaPad Y570
Core i7-2720QM/2.2GHz
8GB DDR3-SDRAM 1333Mhz
nVidia GeForce 555M 1GB GDDR5
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
1366x768/16:9
$800.00
Standard HDMI 1.4 output


----------



## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

When people have to use edge cases like the mac pro (with it's ECC RAM) and the air (ultraportable, and yes dell and other companies have expensive-for-the-specs machines like that as well), the pricing situation isn't nearly as bad as some would have you believe.


----------



## nando (Apr 11, 2012)

Jan1tor said:


> I've used PCs, Amigas, Atari, Commodore, and yes Apple. I hate Apple products the most. I just don't like their architecture and how they opperate. I don't like the handicapped one button mouse, I don't like their hard drive. I don't like their networking, nor their operating interface. It just seems like one big pain in the ass compared to  the PC marketplace. And it seems like things work better with the PC market.
> And there is a ton more software for the PC market as well. But that is just my opinion.



i can't believe people still bitch about one button.


----------



## SifJar (Apr 11, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> Do you not get it? Macs ARE NOT virus/trojan/malware free. AND THEY (nor any other PC) NEVER WILL BE (apart from maybe Chromebooks etc. where nothing is downloaded).


Chrome books could certainly have viruses or malware written for them. They execute code (javascript, HTML5 stuff, flash etc. etc.), and so could be exploited. There is no need for a file to be downloaded for it to cause harm. And besides that, I'm pretty sure you can download files on Chrome books.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Wizerzak said:
> 
> 
> > Do you not get it? Macs ARE NOT virus/trojan/malware free. AND THEY (nor any other PC) NEVER WILL BE (apart from maybe Chromebooks etc. where nothing is downloaded).
> ...


Chromebooks don't have a hard drive that's available to the user - it's basically read-only and exclusive for the OS, everything else is kept in the Cloud or on external drives, thus even if a virus infection would occour, the file would be kept on a server or an external drive, system stability would not be affected. I'm pretty sure the OS drive is locked-out from writting to it on the OS level, so... yeah.


----------



## SifJar (Apr 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Chromebooks don't have a hard drive that's available to the user - it's basically read-only and exclusive for the OS, everything else is kept in the Cloud or on external drives, thus even if a virus infection would occour, the file would be kept on a server or an external drive, system stability would not be affected. I'm pretty sure the OS drive is locked-out from writting to it on the OS level, so... yeah.



It is still a security issue: What do chrome books do? Browse the internet. And what are common uses of internet browsing? Internet banking, online shopping, communication, all things you don't want a hacker to have access to.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Chromebooks don't have a hard drive that's available to the user - it's basically read-only and exclusive for the OS, everything else is kept in the Cloud or on external drives, thus even if a virus infection would occour, the file would be kept on a server or an external drive, system stability would not be affected. I'm pretty sure the OS drive is locked-out from writting to it on the OS level, so... yeah.
> ...


The problem here is that for a virus to do damage on a Chromebook, it would have to ligner in RAM undetected, which is hard for me to imagine as Chromebooks are equipped with hardware-based anti-virus solutions which, as far as I understand, monitor processes and kill those unrelated to the system or otherwise unsigned when running Chrome OS. In other words, if something's not a Google's cloud application then it is likely that it will be killed before it does damage.

That said, I don't particularily *like* the design precisely due to lack of storage. It's a laptop that's only useful wherever there's internet - I could strip any laptop of the HDD, put the OS on some flash, set it to read-only and end up with the same result.


----------



## SifJar (Apr 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The problem here is that for a virus to do damage on a Chromebook, it would have to ligner in RAM undetected, which is hard for me to imagine as Chromebooks are equipped with hardware-based anti-virus solutions which, as far as I understand, monitor processes and kill those unrelated to the system or otherwise unsigned when running Chrome OS. In other words, if something's not a Google's cloud application then it is likely that it will be killed before it does damage.
> 
> That said, I don't particularily *like* the design precisely due to lack of storage. It's a laptop that's only useful wherever there's internet - I could strip any laptop of the HDD, put the OS on some flash, set it to read-only and end up with the same result.


I fail to see your point. No, damage can't be done to the OS. That wasn't the point I was making. I was talking about how *security* of online transactions etc. could be compromised. As for this "hardware AV" - first I've ever heard of it. And besides, that sort of thing can be worked around. PS3 has a processor core dedicated solely to ensuring unsigned code isn't running. Lot of good that did. It's just an extra thing to exploit. If the devices become truly popular, you can be 100% sure there WILL be viruses and malware and the like for them.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2012)

SifJar said:


> I fail to see your point. No, damage can't be done to the OS. That wasn't the point I was making. I was talking about how *security* of online transactions etc. could be compromised. As for this "hardware AV" - first I've ever heard of it. And besides, that sort of thing can be worked around. PS3 has a processor core dedicated solely to ensuring unsigned code isn't running. Lot of good that did. It's just an extra thing to exploit. If the devices become truly popular, you can be 100% sure there WILL be viruses and malware and the like for them.


For an online transaction to be compromised, first you need a virus or some sort of malware working in the background to sniff and re-send the data, and any process unrecognized by Google is (supposedly) killed, so it limits possibilities greatly.

Of course it can be worked around - every kind of protection can, I'm just saying it's done in a particularily smart fashion.

I've read about the hardware infection detection on the official Chromebook page, not sure how much of it is true but it looks interesting.

Also, the PS3's HyperVisor is not exactly a good example here simply because the HyperVisor just didn't give a damn as long as the code was running on a layer higher than itself - if the code was inside a piece of RAM that the HyperVisor previously assigned to a signed program, it no longer checked what was running in it, thus a simple buffer overflow and overlapping allowed running unsigned code right under the HyperVisor's nose. This solution is entirely different.


----------



## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Apr 11, 2012)

Rydian said:


> When people have to use edge cases like the mac pro (with it's ECC RAM) and the air (ultraportable, and yes dell and other companies have expensive-for-the-specs machines like that as well), the pricing situation isn't nearly as bad as some would have you believe.


ehh...it kinda is

MacBook Pro:
Mac OS X Lion
15.4 in. 1440x900 (16:10)
2.2GHz Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz DDR3
500GB 5400 RPM SATA Drive
AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512MB
8x DVD/CD burner
77.5 WHr Battery
Price: $1,799.00

Dell XPS:
Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
15.4 in. 1366x768 (16:9)
2.2GHz Intel Core i7
6GB 1333MHz DDR3
750GB 7200 RPM SATA Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 525M 1GB
8x DVD/CD burner
90 WHr Battery
Price: $974.99

For the price of that MacBook, you could get a pretty sweet XPS:
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
15.4 in. 1920x1080 (16:9)
2.4GHz Intel Core i7
8GB 1333MHz DDR3
750GB 7200 RPM SATA Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 540M 2G
BD/DVD/CD Burner
90 WHr Battery
Price: $1,784.99 - lol, it's still cheaper


----------



## Rydian (Apr 11, 2012)

The original model XPS you listed has a lower screen resolution and the GPU is half the power, so not all the important specs for gaming are up there (you picked the pro with the dedicated GPU so I assume that was your point).

I am NOT saying that apple machines are not more expensive, just that people blow the differences way out of proportion.


----------



## Thesolcity (Apr 11, 2012)

I have no problem with Apple, its the consumers I hate.


----------



## nando (Apr 11, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> I have no problem with Apple, its the consumers I hate.




what did i ever do to you?


----------



## Thesolcity (Apr 11, 2012)

nando said:


> Thesolcity said:
> 
> 
> > I have no problem with Apple, its the consumers I hate.
> ...



Buy Apple products.


----------



## nando (Apr 11, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> nando said:
> 
> 
> > Thesolcity said:
> ...




aw, you are probably just jelly


----------



## bazamuffin (Apr 11, 2012)

Apple Fanboi's are the hipster scum of the tech world


----------



## Thesolcity (Apr 11, 2012)

nando said:


> Thesolcity said:
> 
> 
> > nando said:
> ...




Yep, completely jelly man. 

-Posted from my iMac


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> That said, I don't particularily *like* the design precisely due to lack of storage. It's a laptop that's only useful wherever there's internet - I could strip any laptop of the HDD, put the OS on some flash, set it to read-only and end up with the same result.



You can install Linux on Chromebooks, which Google specifically states is okay. That's what I did, but the remaining space is very limited after it re-partitions itself.


----------



## Zerousen (Apr 12, 2012)

No problem against Apple myself, I just prefer Android over Apple. What really bugs me though, is how much better apple fanboys think they are because they have an iPhone. I suppose another thing that bugged me is that you couldn't really add external memory to the iPhone. I ran out of memory on my iPhone 4 (I kept alot of movies and apps for my little sister on there), and it had issues after I jailbroke it (probably some cydia application that messed up, though). I didn't want to have to pay so much to upgrade to one with more storage, so instead, I sold my iPhone, got an android device, stuck a 16 gb memory card in it, and no more issues. I felt that I could do so much more with my android phone than with my iPhone, and I don't feel limited to what I could do with it. I do miss some of the few perks I had on my jailbroken iPhone, but I feel that I've got more benefits with an android phone than with an iPhone. 

That's just my side of the story. Most people probably just hating on people who have what they don't. Maybe there will come a time where hipsters feel that Apple has become too mainstream, and switch to Symbian or something


----------



## finkmac (Apr 12, 2012)

The most expensive Mac. Period. Blows away the IIfx (US$10,000)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEYOND-RARE-PROTOTYPE-MACINTOSH-128k-APPLE-MAC-WITH-5-25-TWIGGY-DISK-DRIVE-/160781780426?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256f5745ca#ht_17992wt_1190


----------



## IBNobody (Apr 12, 2012)

Hikaru said:


> No problem against Apple myself, I just prefer Android over Apple. What really bugs me though, is how much better apple fanboys think they are because they have an iPhone. I suppose another thing that bugged me is that you couldn't really add external memory to the iPhone. I ran out of memory on my iPhone 4 (I kept alot of movies and apps for my little sister on there), and it had issues after I jailbroke it (probably some cydia application that messed up, though). I didn't want to have to pay so much to upgrade to one with more storage, so instead, I sold my iPhone, got an android device, stuck a 16 gb memory card in it, and no more issues. I felt that I could do so much more with my android phone than with my iPhone, and I don't feel limited to what I could do with it. I do miss some of the few perks I had on my jailbroken iPhone, but I feel that I've got more benefits with an android phone than with an iPhone.
> 
> That's just my side of the story. Most people probably just hating on people who have what they don't.* Maybe there will come a time where hipsters feel that Apple has become too mainstream, and switch to Symbian or something *



That's so true.

Apple fans or not, I can't stand *H*ipster *E*litist *A*sshole *D*ouche-bags, (HEADs)


----------



## kthnxshwn (Apr 12, 2012)

Did you just make that up?


----------



## Rydian (Apr 12, 2012)

You know, anti-apple people using blanket insults like that aren't helping the situation either.

It's pretty childish.


----------



## IBNobody (Apr 12, 2012)

kthnxshwn said:


> Did you just make that up?



HEAD? I don't remember if I made it up... I've been using that term for a while to bash Liberals who work in marketing (and also own every Apple product).


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 12, 2012)

finkmac said:


> The most expensive Mac. Period. Blows away the IIfx (US$10,000)
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/...ht_17992wt_1190



It just jumped up to $99,995.00 USD.  I think people are a _little_ desperate to make that much money off an old computer.  If someone is foolish enough to splurge that much money, and then have the machine end up not working at all, well, best of luck to them.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 12, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > The most expensive Mac. Period. Blows away the IIfx (US$10,000)
> ...



It is kinda overpriced... But it's a prototype... Only full-cased one known to exist.


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 12, 2012)

finkmac said:


> It is kinda overpriced... But it's a prototype... Only full-cased one known to exist.



Meh...I guess so. The guy said it doesn't even boot up to an OS, but it does give you bragging rights.


----------



## Wizerzak (Apr 12, 2012)

finkmac said:


> It is kinda overpriced... But...


Kinda sums up Apple fanboy's excuses for buying Apple products.



Spoiler


----------



## finkmac (Apr 12, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > It is kinda overpriced... But it's a prototype... Only full-cased one known to exist.
> ...



Little history, Around '82, Apple restructured, and added a "Disk Division". They produced the "twiggy" Disk drives that offered more space than normal floppies, but were notorious for their unreliability... The Lisa 1 shipped with 2 built in... The Mac was intended to have one of these drives, but they switched to Sony diskette drives... Which were more reliable... Of course, it's virtually impossible to put anything (apart from Lisa software) onto a "Twiggy" disk... So, obviously... There isn't a way to get the operating system onto it... Unless the floppy expansion port works...


----------



## Dter ic (Apr 12, 2012)

bazamuffin said:


> Apple Fanboi's are the hipster scum of the tech world


I thought Apple products are mainstream?


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 12, 2012)

Dter ic said:


> I thought Apple products are mainstream?



They are, but like a retrovirus that hides from your immune system, Apple's popularity spreads faster than it can be controlled.


----------



## Frederica Bernkastel (Apr 12, 2012)

Oh god, this thread has reached 8 pages. I hope you got your answer Op, this shit is gonna keep going in circles until somebody locks it.


----------



## Rydian (Apr 12, 2012)

I feel this warrants a mention, given an earlier discussion.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24451
No viruses, but plenty of bad shit.

Anyways yeah, most tech forums I've seen outright ban "x vs x" threads. XD


----------



## Just Another Gamer (Apr 13, 2012)

I thought this was covered a few pages back.


----------



## Rydian (Apr 13, 2012)

I figured a current-event sort of thing would help since some of the "that doesn't count" arguments were because some named infections were archaic.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 13, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I figured a current-event sort of thing would help since some of the "that doesn't count" arguments were because some named infections were archaic.


There's no point in trying to prove that water is wet - every OS may fall victim of viruses and the amount of viruses is directly connected to the size of the userbase of the system. Windows has been the dominant system for years thus it has the most malware of all sorts released for it. There really is no reason to prove what is obvious. Some people will not change their opinion even as they face overwhelming evidence.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 13, 2012)

Apparently, The latest Java update removes most variants of "Flashback"... No doubt more variants will pop up in the following days.


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (Apr 13, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> Meh...I guess so. The guy said it doesn't even boot up to an OS, but it does give you *bragging rights*.


"Hey gang, I just bought a $100,000 old, broken computer off the internets!" 

Everyone else:   /  /  /  /  

I hope dunking $100,000 on old piece of broken tech is worth the bragging 

Kudos to the auction winner


----------



## finkmac (Apr 13, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> the_randomizer said:
> 
> 
> > Meh...I guess so. The guy said it doesn't even boot up to an OS, but it does give you *bragging rights*.
> ...



It's a freaking PROTOTYPE...

However... I just heard that this one might not be the only one that exists....


----------



## Janthran (Apr 13, 2012)

I just don't like how madly overpriced they are.


----------



## marcus134 (Apr 13, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> the_randomizer said:
> 
> 
> > Meh...I guess so. The guy said it doesn't even boot up to an OS, but it does give you *bragging rights*.
> ...


you're forgetting the 1.5k$ of shipping fee


----------



## Just Another Gamer (Apr 13, 2012)

Janthran said:


> I just don't like how madly overpriced they are.


I doubt anyone does.


----------



## finkmac (Apr 13, 2012)

marcus134 said:


> ZAFDeltaForce said:
> 
> 
> > the_randomizer said:
> ...



Hey, you're spending a hundred grand on a computer... You don't want it to be crushed in transit


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (Apr 13, 2012)

finkmac said:


> ZAFDeltaForce said:
> 
> 
> > the_randomizer said:
> ...


It's a broken prototype of an old computer then 

But I see you're point though. It's very rare and should command an exorbitant price. But that doesn't change the fact that it's broken and unserviceable. At the least, the auction winner would hope to sell it off at a higher price


----------



## finkmac (Apr 13, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > ZAFDeltaForce said:
> ...



Where did it say that it was broken? It isn't... It's a prototype, so It requires a prototype OS...


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (Apr 13, 2012)

finkmac said:


> Where did it say that it was broken? It isn't... It's a prototype, so It requires a prototype OS...


My bad, I must have misread "Beyond rare" as "Beyond repair" at the auction page 



> *CONDITION:
> Computer powers on, chimes, then the typical gray screen appears with a blinking question mark inside of a
> floppy disk icon appears, indicating to insert a boot disk. Keyboard and mouse have been tested on a standard
> Macintosh 128k computer and work perfectly. Lisa-formatted Twiggy disk, shown in photo below, (Not included)
> does not boot this computer.*


Well, it still seems to be unserviceable because you'll need a boot disk that the auctioneer didn't include/ doesn't possess

If he does have it, I bet he'd charge another 100 grand for it


----------



## finkmac (Apr 13, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> finkmac said:
> 
> 
> > Where did it say that it was broken? It isn't... It's a prototype, so It requires a prototype OS...
> ...



Apparently, He got the machine for.... Free....

Theoretically, you could hook up an external floppy drive and boot it from there...


----------



## Zerousen (Apr 13, 2012)

Janthran said:


> I just don't like how madly overpriced they are.



For me, its not really the pricing, but getting the most for my money, for example, getting a PC with better specs than a Mac, for the same price. Most high end android smartphones are in the 200 us dollars range, same as a standard 16gb (newest iPhone model here).


----------



## The Minecrafter (Apr 13, 2012)

I really hate them for just trying to sue the competition so that they have the only similar product out there. They also steal ideas for others.
Here are some examples:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/229993/did_apple_steal_a_college_kids_wifi_sync_app.html
http://androidandme.com/2011/12/news/apple-provides-ridiculous-list-of-changes-samsung-can-make-to-avoid-legal-trouble/
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/22/us-apple-amazon-lawsuit-idUKTRE72L07I20110322
It is things like this that really bug me, and get on my nerves. Also when people say that "IT JUST WERKS" without proving why, and the fanbase's refusal to listen to any solid proof why X is better than their iWhatever.


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Apr 13, 2012)

chris888222 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Apple is an overly-aggressive and self-righteous company. They chase anyone who releases something even remotely similar to their hardware like dogs while at the same time they "borrow" ideas from their competition, they had the gut to belittle Intel in the age of Pentium II and look at them now - a few years later when they realized that they can't fit any more obsolete G cores, they released a campaign to welcome the Intel processors on Mac's. They praise their system for being safe while in fact it's just that nobody gives a sh*t about it. They're the only company who thinks that it's possible to patent a black rectangle. The only company that thinks abstract ideas like "icon" can be intellectual property. They sell obsolete hardware for more than it's worth and they release corporate spyware such as iTunes just to make the life of their customers more annoying. They're also the only company which tried to convince people that their product is totally not an mp3 player. "It's an iPOD!". Do I hate them? I pity them and their customers. Enjoy your system stability. No thanks to Apple, thanks to UNIX. You know, because Android is stolen technology that deserves to be destroyed because it's based on Linux, MacOS isn't because it's based on UNIX. Hypocrites.
> ...


I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, unless Apple and their customers are now defined as "everything created in this world".
Also, good post Foxi4, you summarized my opinion on Apple entirely.


----------



## Zerousen (Apr 13, 2012)

The Minecrafter said:


> Also when people say that "IT JUST WERKS" without proving why, and the fanbase's refusal to listen to any solid proof why X is better than their iWhatever.


I was called a nerd the other day because I didn't have an iPhone (anymore). The kid ended up ranting about how great apple was and how everyone should buy everything apple for our own good. He has no idea what a jailbreak I'd whatsoever, and all he knows is that my phone is a "Droid".


----------



## chris888222 (Apr 13, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> chris888222 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


That wasn't a conclusion. I was talking about his tone.


----------



## bazamuffin (Apr 13, 2012)

Dter ic said:


> bazamuffin said:
> 
> 
> > Apple Fanboi's are the hipster scum of the tech world
> ...



Hipsters are massively annoying a-holes who think they're better than everyone else.  See where I'm going with this?


----------



## kthnxshwn (Apr 16, 2012)

I like how no one pointed out that that old Apple computer is being sold by Wozniak himself.


----------



## SifJar (Apr 16, 2012)

kthnxshwn said:


> I like how no one pointed out that that old Apple computer is being sold by Wozniak himself.



That'd be because it isn't.


----------



## The Milkman (Apr 18, 2012)

I honestly do hate them. Its not as much as for what they are but what they stand for, to me Apple has always been your big ol, corporate who makes shitloads of cash by staying as the "popular" guys and selling total bullshit. I mean have you SEEN the iPad 2? Its a flippin iPad with features that I could have gotten from a simple iPad update, instead they market a device which only runs on a updated OS and sell it for like 300 bucks a piece. iOS sucks anyway. Only Mac is the only respectable thing they make simply because it actually is a better OS for businesses and schools then Windows.


----------



## Rydian (Apr 19, 2012)

Wait, so you can get a software update that makes the first ipad weigh less, grow a camera, grow HDMI capabilities, upgrade the processor, double the RAM, and grow a gyroscope?

LINK PLZ


----------



## nando (Apr 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Wait, so you can get a software update that makes the first ipad weigh less, grow a camera, grow HDMI capabilities, upgrade the processor, double the RAM, and grow a gyroscope?
> 
> LINK PLZ




you obviously never heard about downloading more ram


----------



## AlanWeird (Apr 21, 2012)

I personally would be all over an iPad if apple stopped being douches and stuck microsd or sd support in there.

16gb and now a better than hd screen, yeah... bottleneck much?


----------



## Zerousen (Apr 23, 2012)

AlanWeird said:


> I personally would be all over an iPad if apple stopped being douches and stuck microsd or sd support in there.
> 
> 16gb and now a better than hd screen, yeah... bottleneck much?



I honestly think they could have had the retina display when they made the ipad 2. The "new" ipad doesn't seem like a real upgrade.


----------



## chains_of_androm (May 9, 2012)

no microSD and front camera is still crap..wish they made improvements in those areas.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

chains_of_andromeda said:


> no microSD and front camera is still crap..wish they made improvements in those areas.


I don't think they ever will add any external storage unless it's a branded Apple format. It's just not their style - they like to embed "everything they need" into their products and release a revision whenether new hardware is needed.


----------



## Luckkill4u (May 9, 2012)

Apple always made me think of the Apple of Eden. Hmmm temptation....

My new HTC One X will do though  Apple just always gave a wrong feeling. Having 3 iPod touches and a iPod Classic 160GB I just don't like the quality as much as my HTC One X or even my Samsung Google Nexus S.


----------



## Originality (May 12, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Wanting to appear "in the know", so they bash on stuff they see other people bashing on in an attempt to look like they fit in with "the smart crowd".


You and I fall into this category, albeit we do a good job with justifying our claims as "smart" people with actual facts and sources.



IBNobody said:


> I hate the company because Apple thinks it knows what I want better than I do.
> 
> I hate the company because Apple is too arrogant to admit their mistakes. ("You're holding it wrong.")
> 
> ...


It does. They are. They do. You're ignorant. You're dreaming.



Fredrica Bernkastel said:


> Nobody hates Apple. People do dislike their business practices and their [lack of] originality however.


Needs more me.


finkmac said:


> They ARE.  As of this date, There are Zero (known) viruses for Mac OS X. Trojans abound, though.


Inside, like many before me, I'm dying of laughter. Moving on.



nando said:


> Jan1tor said:
> 
> 
> > I've used PCs, Amigas, Atari, Commodore, and yes Apple. I hate Apple products the most. I just don't like their architecture and how they opperate. I don't like the handicapped one button mouse, I don't like their hard drive. I don't like their networking, nor their operating interface. It just seems like one big pain in the ass compared to  the PC marketplace. And it seems like things work better with the PC market.
> ...


I do, even though modern Mac mice actually have 3 buttons now (left side, right side, and the scroll button). I don't use a Mac (although I've got two in my house and have worked with them several times in the past), so it doesn't bug me. But the iDevices only having one button really gets to me. Is it really too much trouble to add a back button at the bottom that doesn't throw you back to Springboard? I know many apps have the back button in the corner, but that's only when the bar doesn't get hidden by the apps.

My take on Apple (as an owner of Macs through the ages, an iPod Touch 4G, iPad 2, and Motorola Razr V3im (iTunes equiped phone))? First, iTunes. I hate iTunes. Ever since I had to use one with my Razr to put music on it (and it was limited to 100 songs despite upgrading the mSD card) and saw how slow it was on my laptop, I've hated it. Even now with a Core i5-2500k @ 4.2Ghz and an OCZ Vertex 3 SSD, it is still friggin' slow. I know it's faster on Mac, but that has a problem of its own. No matter how powerful the Mac (I'd wager even that $10k prototype would experience the same), if I plug in my old iPod Classic, it will crash within 5 minutes. The only way I've ever gotten it to work without crashing, is to connect via a Mac Studio Pro (USB equipped monitor). iTunes is just an example of bad programming that never got fixed in Apple's quest to stuff more features into it than anybody else. I also don't like how you're supposed to use iTunes to import your songs into your phone, rather than the old drag and drop. Maybe if you spend a lot of time organizing your life's music on iTunes it would be convenient, but for someone migratory like myself, who tends to reinstall Windows every year and start fresh with apps like iTunes, I lose my library every time and have to start over. My Music folder never changes its layout (Artist - Album - Songs) but iTunes will not recognise that.

The next thing I hate is exactly what Apple takes the most pride in. Their app store. Trying to find the "best app" is not an easy process. Trying to find "good apps" is also tricky when you're expected to pay to even try half of them (and not all apps find their way to certain hacked resources). What I'm left with is the free section (hit and miss, and too many limits for "trial editions" to get a real trial). I'd go into a lot more detail, but since it's a similar problem with Android, I'll just leave it there.

As for the iOS interface... simple is good. It works for them. Power users will prefer Android (unless they can find the right jailbreak tweaks, but that's a task in and of itself). Now if only they could get the software (iTunes) to be just as simple (at transferring stuff to the iDevice)...

Price... it's been addressed, but the price isn't all that bad. £400 for a powerful tablet is a good price. £300 for a discounted but still capable tablet is a good price. Sure, £80 per SSD upgrade (16GB to 32GB, and again to 64GB) is ridiculous when you can get a 90GB SSD for the same price or less, but the same story takes place with HDDs in Mac upgrades. The hardware isn't badly priced, but the storage is. Then there's the Apple Tax, but there are ways around that to the informed shopper. For those who commented about "normal" or "non-techy" or "less informed" consumers... that is literally 90% of the people who walk through high streets and take the time to look at the shop windows. All it takes is a flashy product, a well presented salesman, a fluid sales pitch, and the financial means, and they will buy anything (I could even sell my gold plated pen if I wanted, but I'd rather sell the diamond and sapphire engagement ring in my Window for £1000 after discount). Now the fun part is dealing with the people who actually know what the product is, how to use it, and how much it really costs. They don't want to buy an iPhone for £600, but a salesman has to explain to them why they are willing to pay for the VAT and Apple Tax - and that's typically the security that comes with the warranty... if they break it, they get to speak to the friendly people at customer service who will make them feel good about parting with £120 for repairs.

Lastly, the community. I'm going to run on a limb and say "What community? You mean those idiots and fanboys who will flame you if you say anything anti-Apple?". I'm not anti-Apple, although I do hate them as a company for some of their policies and especially for them trying to sue Samsung for their Galaxy phones. I'm not anti-iDevice although I do hate iPhones. I'm not even anti-fanboy even though I did find it hilarious when iFish discovered his newfound love in the Nexus and Android. I'm just someone who is surrounded by technology, who sees the pros and cons in all of it, who makes the best use of all tools available, and enjoys a good troll getting burned on the internet.



emigre said:


>


----------



## Clydefrosch (May 12, 2012)

i guess hate is the wrong word. to be honest, its more like you cant say anything but nice things unless you want to be called a hater


----------



## Originality (May 12, 2012)

Clydefrosch said:


> i guess hate is the wrong word. to be honest, its more like you cant say anything but nice things unless you want to be called a hater


I like cats, I don't like dogs. Doesn't make me a hater.
I like Android and use iOS more often, but I prefer Android. Doesn't make me a hater.
I don't agree with Obama's stance on same-sex marriage in the US. Doesn't make me a hater.

Oh wait, it does. What can I do about it? Open my mind and stop judging people for whatever they think, whether right or wrong, controversial or popular.
Now I'm not a hater, I'm a thinker.
(Adapted from Philosophy classes).

EDIT: Ok, I hate iTunes. Doesn't make me a hater, makes me opinionated. The difference? I don't tell people not to use it, and even encourage some friends to use it (only girls, whose talents for remembering thousands of indie band names continues to astound me). I even use it myself. I just hate it.


----------



## Rydian (May 12, 2012)

I manage to dislike things without being called a hater a lot.  Though there's always those people that, even if given a paragraph of praise, will assume an entire post is down on the subject if the opening sentence is.

When using somebody's opinion or thoughts as a way to judge them, you should instead be considering the motivation and reasoning behind their conclusion, instead of just the conclusions.  Makes a world of difference.


----------



## IBNobody (May 13, 2012)

Originality, I saw the notification that you quoted my post. Why are you quoting and replying to posts that are a month old and not really saying much? To be witty? Snarky? Don't do that. It confuses us older people too much.

But to your point... I've never installed iTunes, even when Apple wanted me to do it in order to get Quicktime. I agree with your point that Apple software is bloated, though, because my experience with Quicktime over the years has been less than stellar.


----------



## finkmac (May 13, 2012)

IBNobody said:


> Originality, I saw the notification that you quoted my post. Why are you quoting and replying to posts that are a month old and not really saying much? To be witty? Snarky? Don't do that. It confuses us older people too much.
> 
> But to your point... I've never installed iTunes, even when Apple wanted me to do it in order to get Quicktime. I agree with your point that Apple software is bloated, though, because my experience with Quicktime over the years has been less than stellar.



The software Apple makes for Windows _is _bloated... PictureViewer? We haven't had that on the Mac version of QuickTime since 1999... 



Also, http://guides.macrumors.com/Mac_Virus/Malware_FAQ


----------



## jonesman99 (May 13, 2012)

No, I like Apple products, my first was a 2nd gen 8gb ipod touch, and loved it, and as time went on, i loved watching the advances it made in its tech (soft and hard wise). The only thing I wish is that they take the consumer's considerations when it comes to error checking and ideas for implementation into the product (like some of the cydia store apps), that and a 128gb ipod touch too, lol.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (May 13, 2012)

I don't hate them. I'm just against them. I think they're products are too overpriced and don't give the user much freedom, basically making them follow Apple's rules. Are their products good? Yes, but if I had to choose between Android or iOS, I'd pick Android just because of how open it is, and it basically does everything that the iProducts do. Another thing is I don't like how Apple makes the user rely so heavily on iTunes. I hate that program with a passion.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 13, 2012)

1. Yes... I hate Apple. Why? They're annoying as hell.. Every device they put out is no better than the previous one.. and there's so much you CAN'T do.. i.e. iDevices.. Not to mention they LOVE to charge for every little update to their Mac Lineup. Why? I don't know.

2. The one thing I hate more than Apple? The Apple Fanboys. Every non-apple device you see them hating on, because it SOMEHOW copied the mac, or the iPhone... or something stupid.

I want freedom with my device, not a bunch of useless features that I'll never use. I'm not a fandroid, but I definitely don't like iOS.

Note: This is just an OPINION!


----------



## Rydian (May 13, 2012)

It's okay to have an opinion, but try to base it on actual facts and not total bullshit.



Mchief298 said:


> Every device they put out is no better than the previous one.


Bullshit.
iPad 1 to iPad 2?
Processor upgrade.
Double the RAM.
Cameras added.
Gyroscope added

So the updated version of the tablet had higher specs and some additional components *just like every other manufacturer* (E.G. ASUS Transformer to ASUS Transformer Prime).

Same sort of updates for the iPhone and such.  Processor+RAM upgrades and often other new features that weren't on the original models *just like every other manufacturer* (E.G. Samsung Galaxy Through III).

And of course the same thing with the computers. incremential upgrades every so often *just like every other manufacturer* (E.G. Lenovo's laptops upgrading the CPU and GPU they use as time passes).



Mchief298 said:


> and there's so much you CAN'T do.. i.e. iDevices..


Like what?
And since this is talking "Apple", don't give me any "burn a CD on the ipad" bullshit, because you can't burn a CD on any tablet I know of without extra hardware. 



Mchief298 said:


> Not to mention they LOVE to charge for every little update to their Mac Lineup. Why? I don't know.


The hell you talkin' about?

If you mean the hardware... no fucking duh?  When's the last time a company gave you a new model of something you own for free?
If you mean the software, this is wrong too.  In fact Apple charged only $30 for an upgrade to their OS, versus the $100+ Windows charges.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 13, 2012)

Rydian, it would seem I have struck a cord with you?

Let's do a quick comparison, shall we?

Hardware? Yea.. Okay. Every other device out there receives an upgrade with the next generation. Apple is no different. So, what I meant to say was the features added with the newer software/os. Siri? Heh... Their multitasking? Heh... Oh, and since you haven't seemed to notice? I'm mainly talking about iOS. Sure, Mac has it's ups and downs. However, I'm indifferent about it.

Not to mention? The user customization on iOS is laughable at best. You have to Jailbreak to get any true personal touches on there. The iPad shouldn't really be called a tablet, everything it can do, the iPhone can too... Which it pretty much is just an oversized iPod touch.. Even with it's very few personal touches. The screen isn't something I'm too worried about.

...also... Where the HELL did you pull that CD crap out of? haha... Da fu?

I have the iPod Touch 4G... That's probably the ONLY Apple handheld I'll touch. As for Mac? It's too overpriced... I can get something better for that....

I have a low end Android Phone... and an Acer (YES, ACER) Android Tablet.. Which does more for me than any iOS device. Which is currently the true main focus of my argument. *cough*

..and this is for ME. MY OPINION. Don't make it personal.


----------



## Rydian (May 13, 2012)

Yeah locking out services that still run on older devices is a dick move.
And yeah the iOS isn't nearly as customizable as something like Android.

See?  Aren't legit reasons better than bullshit ones? 



Mchief298 said:


> The iPad shouldn't really be called a tablet, everything it can do, the iPhone can too...


Er, same deal with android... which means pretty much every tablet.  Most phones run android as well, tablets even have the ability to run phone apps (either zooming the screen in or stretching it).



Mchief298 said:


> ...also... Where the HELL did you pull that CD crap out of? haha... Da fu?


It's one of the most commonly stated complaints about the ipad, so I wanted to nip it in the bud.


----------



## kthnxshwn (May 13, 2012)

Hey, I'm buying one of the new iMacs when they come out because they're pretty. Sup sup.


----------



## Originality (May 13, 2012)

Rydian said:


> If you mean the hardware... no fucking duh? When's the last time a company gave you a new model of something you own for free?
> If you mean the software, this is wrong too. In fact Apple charged only $30 for an upgrade to their OS, versus the $100+ Windows charges.


Um... About 6 years ago. I saw financing options for laptops that included free upgrades to newer laptops when the financing contract was completed. I also saw the same for phones, although that's largely morphed into a completely different deal now which is nowhere near as good.


----------



## awssk8er (May 13, 2012)

Mchief298 said:


> Rydian, it would seem I have struck a cord with you?
> 
> Let's do a quick comparison, shall we?
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said.

And my brother has an HP Touchpad with Android (They never even released it officially. It's just a hack), and it runs soooooo much better than my mom's iPad 2. It does everything that can and more.


----------



## SifJar (May 13, 2012)

Originality said:


> Rydian said:
> 
> 
> > If you mean the hardware... no fucking duh? When's the last time a company gave you a new model of something you own for free?
> ...


"financing options" that probably led to you paying for the second laptop as well by the time you take into account the number of payments and the amount of interest and stuff like that.

You are rarely better to go for a payment plan when buying anything. You almost always end up paying more in the end. If you can't afford it at that point in time, don't buy it until you can. Save up and the price will probably come down anyway.


----------



## Alaude (May 13, 2012)

its not about hatred really, but the reason there are many haters for Apple is because they are too damn expensive!!!.


----------



## chris888222 (May 14, 2012)

Alaude said:


> its not about hatred really, but the reason there are many haters for Apple is because they are too damn expensive!!!.


Actually price varies for country. In Singapore, iPad is actually around the same price as other tablets. In fact, certain Android tablets with similar specs are even more expensive. As for iPhone, if you get it with a carrier contract, it's not too bad - maybe about $20 - $50 more expensive on the same plan.

But I have to agree that Macs are tremendously overpriced. Even with student discounts, a 15 inch Pro would still hover $2,200+. 

I like iOS, but not Mac OS X. OS X Lion isn't really my cup of tea.


----------



## Rydian (May 14, 2012)

My Transformer Prime tablet was $500, the same price as the iPad.

When complaining about the prices, people will stretch things beyond normal limits.
It's okay to say "I can get a decent machine for less", that's true.
It's not okay to say "I can get something with the same specs for 1/4th the price", as that's false.

And let's not forget comparisons that are just plain old unfair, like complaining about the specs of an iMac while comparing it to machines that aren't of the all-in-one form-factor.


----------



## Ultymoo (May 17, 2012)

Some people have good reasons, but most are just hating to hate.


----------



## nando (May 17, 2012)

i think a lot of the hate can also be attributed to justin long. apple comes up in a discussion and probably  his face pops into people's minds and rage ensues.


----------



## TheRedfox (May 18, 2012)

iOS is actually pretty good, but its too simple.
I love android because every app does have an alternative, so you can personalize your phone very deep!
I never had seen alternative keyboards for the ipad on cydia with 5 rows and ios 5 compitable, on my android device i can choose between 30 different keyboards that all have a unique point why people use it, but with apple stuff you can't decide to swype or type or theme the keyboard.
Apple did made 1 style thats populair with the most people, but the people that want something other(lets say 49% for simplicity) won't buy a ios device if you let see them the advantages of a *GOOD* android device(not $200 crap).
A unrooted android device still can do more than a jailbroken apple device, and android is actually easy to use. not that much as ios but most people will get used to it.
(i don't get what's so user-friendly about blackberrys, you need to navigate trough 9 menus to change a PIN. and some people say that android is harder than bb os :s)

And i don't want an iPad, the UI is just a big ipod touch UI.
The UI of android 4.x is much better for tablets than the UI of ios5(5x5 apps grid on a 10" screen :s)

But i don't hate apple, i'am just not the 51% of the people apple made their devices for


----------



## ShadowSoldier (May 18, 2012)

nando said:


> i think a lot of the hate can also be attributed to justin long. apple comes up in a discussion and probably  his face pops into people's minds and rage ensues.



I don't know what you're talking about, it's because of those commercials that I sorta wanted to buy an iProduct in the first place. It's like Kevin Butler. When Sony created him, I wanted to get a PS3. lol.


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## freaksloan (May 18, 2012)

Don't hate Apple, I just never bought the snake oil Steve Jobs was selling.

Now Apple Fanboys, YES! I HATE THEM!


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## Ben_j (May 18, 2012)

I don't HATE Apple. I've had an iPod Nano, and was really happy with it, I've had an iPhone and was really happy with it too. I just hate Mac OS, and all of their computers. They're overpriced and are nowhere near what I expect from a computer.


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## xwatchmanx (May 31, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Apple is an overly-aggressive and self-righteous company. They chase anyone who releases something even remotely similar to their hardware like dogs while at the same time they "borrow" ideas from their competition, they had the gut to belittle Intel in the age of Pentium II and look at them now - a few years later when they realized that they can't fit any more obsolete G cores, they released a campaign to welcome the Intel processors on Mac's. They praise their system for being safe while in fact it's just that nobody gives a sh*t about it. They're the only company who thinks that it's possible to patent a black rectangle. The only company that thinks abstract ideas like "icon" can be intellectual property. They sell obsolete hardware for more than it's worth and they release corporate spyware such as iTunes just to make the life of their customers more annoying. They're also the only company which tried to convince people that their product is totally not an mp3 player. "It's an iPOD!". Do I hate them? I pity them and their customers. Enjoy your system stability. No thanks to Apple, thanks to UNIX. You know, because Android is stolen technology that deserves to be destroyed because it's based on Linux, MacOS isn't because it's based on UNIX. Hypocrites.


This basically sums up how I feel. Don't get me wrong, I'm a complete fAndroid, but I can totally understand why some people would like Apple products as opposed to the competition. Heck, when people ask my opinion on what smartphone to buy, I often direct them to the iPhone because it's so easy to use. But that said, I have SERIOUS issues with Apple's business practices, even compared to others who can be pretty bad themselves.


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## toptenmaterial (Jun 2, 2012)

I guess I'd consider myself an Apple user, since I've done nearly all of my web browsing on an iPhone 3GS since... late 2010? Surfing the web and gathering information with an iOS device is a breeze. The hardware is very durable, and that's a rarity these days. But, that being said...

There is limited tech support. I had a tech try to charge me $30 over the phone for a question about putting a song on my phone. Nintendo, on the other hand, has unlimited support for free.

They also use their firmware updates to lock out 3rd party devices like power adapters ($30 a pop) and iHome type stuff. In my opinion, that is very greedy and mean spirited behavior, and has caused some resentment from me towards Apple.

Are they among the best companies for producing mobile devices? Yes, unquestionably. However, I feel that they also should treat their consumers a little better.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 2, 2012)

i feel i should also mention I'm an apple customer as well... i have a Macbook Pro, and i have owned an iPod in the past.


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## gamelover2 (Jun 12, 2012)

Apple products are my god in mind...


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## snakepliskin2334 (Jun 29, 2012)

nope i love apple computers and there products when they want to work i have a ipod classic and its worked fine for over year and i half had to replace because of battery problems for only like 60$ at a apple store might make the switch to the 160 model soon still have the 120gb one


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## DaggerV (Jun 29, 2012)

Don't hate Apple products that much, just the blind fan boys/girls that are the equivalent of over-zealot religious nut.


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## Lostbhoy (Jun 29, 2012)

I hate the company, it's stolen idea products, it's ridiculous status symbol pricing, it's ego and it's fanboys who do anything to defend it as if it's their own.

I cannot wait till they hit the skids again (now Steve Jobs is away and cannot return to pull their asses from marketing hell again) and someone/something else takes their place. 
Then I'll probably hate them!!!! LOL


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 29, 2012)

Lostbhoy said:


> I hate the company, it's stolen idea products, it's ridiculous status symbol pricing, it's ego and it's fanboys who do anything to defend it as if it's their own.
> 
> I cannot wait till they hit the skids again (now Steve Jobs is away and cannot return to pull their asses from marketing hell again) and someone/something else takes their place.
> Then I'll probably hate them!!!! LOL


At least you're honest. 

Anyway, I could care less who copies who, etc. I just hate the fact that they just tweak pre-existing ideas, market them as entirely new ideas that THEY invented, and then have the audacity to get patents (that they do NOT deserve) and then sue everyone they possibly can.


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## tatripp (Jun 29, 2012)

Here is what I like about apple...
user friendly, good hardware, not too glitchy, good customer support.

here is what i dislike about apple...
EXPENSIVEEEE... they charge so much for a comparable product whether it be a computer, tablet, or phone and people always buy it anyways.

Breaks easily... my ipod classic broke after about two years. I didn't misuse it at all.  My younger bro's i touch broke within a year and they did replace it because of the warranty but the new one won't play music to left headphone after the warranty expired. 

The operating systems look flashy and nice but the over simplicity of the design is often obnoxious. for example i hate that the iphone does not have a back button, setting button, or search button like my droid x2 does. i remember a super thin laptop they made didn't have a disc drive.
They make lots of new products that are just the same as the old ones with a slightly different feature.

No sd cards on iphone.... seriously???

itunes....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU  (STRONG LANGUAGE)


I don't hate apple because they make good products I don't think they are the best products. If they are as good as the best products then they are still way more expensive than they should be. Despite all of this, people will buy an ipad, iphone, or mac book just because it is apple and they want to be hip. Apple has lines anytime they make a new release even if it is something just a small upgrade to an iphone. they know people are going to buy their stuff no matter the cost so they don't have to be that competitive to greatly succeed.


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## Gnargle (Jun 29, 2012)

They don't try and be innovative to compete - instead, they take out lawsuits against their superior competitors.
That alone should make you hate them.


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## nando (Jun 30, 2012)

Gnargle said:


> They don't try and be innovative to compete - instead, they take out lawsuits against their superior competitors.
> That alone should make you hate them.



so they came up with the unibody aluminum cases, the ipad, the iphone etc by suing people?


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 30, 2012)

nando said:


> so they came up with the unibody aluminum cases, the ipad, the iphone etc by suing people?


What they've done in the past really doesn't have any bearing on what they do now. They've made some cool innovations in the past, but even then, those were mostly tweaks of pre-existing ideas. The iPod was inspired by the fact that Steve Jobs found standard MP3 players to be "ugly," for example. So he tweaked the design and made a "better" version of the MP3 player: the iPod. But was the portable music player an Apple innovation? none at all.

Also, it should be noted that the iPhone and iPad were not original designs... LG (I think it was LG? I might be getting confused with another company) created an EXTREMELY similar smartphone a year or so before the iPhone was announced, and Bill Gates presented the Tablet PC nearly a decade before the iPad was. Ironically, people are calling M$'s new "Surface" tablet a ripoff of the iPad, even though the iPad likely ripped off M$'s Tablet PC years ago.

But that's all off topic: The point is, Apple is starting to leave it's truly innovative ways, and turning to BS lawsuits to keep competitors out of the ring, instead of just doing the honest thing: Designing products much better than the competition and running them out of business. But Apple doesn't WANT to modify it's standard business model and actually get on the bleeding edge of technology with 4G, etc and other things that competitors offer because they're too arrogant, quite frankly. Apple won't make a 4+ inch iPhone because they're convinced there's no need. Apple has waited so long in make 4G tablets and phones because they're convinced "there's no need," even though customers are turning away from them 1 by 1 for features the competitors offer. And instead of Apple "giving" in the customer's desires for 4G and 4inch screens before it's too late, they decide to be arrogant and try to "affirm" their dominance by destroying the competition with underhanded legalities instead.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 30, 2012)

Didn't even read any of the posts, but my main reasons for hating Apple are:

Expensive. They charge way too much for way too little. I compared the price of my desktop I built with the closest replica of a Mac and a PC I could f ind. My build cost me a little under $350. The PC was $600. The Mac was $1100. That's retarded.

Terrible customer support (or at least in the 3 times I've dealt with them). I posted a story a while back about how I had broken my iPod touch by dropping it onto a carpeted floor from less than 3 feet in the air. Figuring the screen must of had a defect, I called Apple up and told them the story. Their response? "I'm sorry sir, you must have _dropped it too hard_". Lolwut? How can you drop something to hard? It was laying on my bed, then it slide off. So that was retarded.

Everybody likes them because their "popular". I see and hear so many people complain about their iDevices and Apple's prices, but they won't buy anything else cuz "that's lame". Plus most of those people always seem to break them, whether it's the screen, the headphone jack, or the charger port

I also hate the lack of customization iPod Touches/iPhones/iPads have (or have they changed that? I had a 2nd gen and a 4th gen [when it first came out] so I dunno)


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## nando (Jun 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Also, it should be noted that the iPhone and iPad were not original designs... LG (I think it was LG? I might be getting confused with another company) created an EXTREMELY similar smartphone a year or so before the iPhone was announced, and Bill Gates presented the Tablet PC nearly a decade before the iPad was. Ironically, people are calling M$'s new "Surface" tablet a ripoff of the iPad, even though the iPad likely ripped off M$'s Tablet PC years ago.




no LG did not. and if you are thinking samsung they did not either, they had a really  ugly looking phone coming out and soon after the iphone announcement their design changed drastically, they even admit to copying except in korea copying = competing.

and the tablet pc is nothing like the ipad in functionality.


and what do people expect from apple every year but gradual improvements? they got it pretty close to right in the all their products, should they jsut abandon them completely and reinvent everything as soon as a competitor copies it?

"holy shit, samsung just reproduced our ipad verbatim including the look of iOS, lets throw this design in the trash and come up with a whole to product to stay competitive, we wouldn't want trolls to think all we do is sue"


EDIT: i got my reason for hating on apple, but they are nitpicky things. and for the price point, there are such things as luxury items. hating something because you can't afford it is just silly. it's not like you don't have choices.


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## Gnargle (Jun 30, 2012)

nando said:


> Gnargle said:
> 
> 
> > They don't try and be innovative to compete - instead, they take out lawsuits against their superior competitors.
> ...


Strawman detected.
Aluminium unibody was being used before Macbooks, and don't let them tell you otherwise. PDA-phones had existed for years before the iPhone and Android was rapidly nearing 1.0 The iPad is a tablet, which has been around almost as long as laptops.
Open your fucking eyes, man. I'm typing this on a Macbook pro and it sickens me. Apple is a horrible company who crib ideas off other companies, patent them, then sue the original IP creators. It's horrible and they should burn to the fucking ground.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 30, 2012)

nando said:


> no LG did not.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada

AHEM.



Gnargle said:


> Strawman detected.
> Aluminium unibody was being used before Macbooks, and don't let them tell you otherwise. PDA-phones had existed for years before the iPhone and Android was rapidly nearing 1.0 The iPad is a tablet, which has been around almost as long as laptops.
> Open your fucking eyes, man. I'm typing this on a Macbook pro and it sickens me. Apple is a horrible company who crib ideas off other companies, patent them, then sue the original IP creators. It's horrible and they should burn to the fucking ground.


Not to mention Steve Jobs said HIMSELF he was inspired to create the iPad after seeing a friend's tablet PC and saying it sucked because it required a stylus. Again, he just tweaked an already existing design (for the better, no less)


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## chris888222 (Jun 30, 2012)

I heard from one of my friends that Creative Technologies was the company that patented the MP3, Apple simply made it better.

Apple didn't invent many things, although they are one of the first to push super slim laptops.

One reason why I choose Apple products is because of customer service. At least over here, service is quite top notch.

I could get a Mac if I want to, but I dislike OS X. I find iOS much better.


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## chemistryfreak (Jun 30, 2012)

I just hate itunes....


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## CrimzonEyed (Jun 30, 2012)

I hate both Apple and Microsoft.

They both do evertything in their might to drain people of money.


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## C-Kronos (Jun 30, 2012)

chris888222 said:


> Well... I was searching the web on some tech news.
> 
> Whenever I see an Apple related article there are just so many blot load of comments that Apple SUXXZ or whatever and "fanboys" get fired up.
> 
> ...



Apple products are alright if you don't mind paying an absurd price for slightly outdated components, and having your product outdated in a year or less worth of time.. Also, why are you including Apple and Android in the same sentence? iOS isn't Android; android was developed by Google, not Apple. Not to mention, Android is open source, developer friendly, and it's based on Linux..

The only time Apple products are enjoyable at all in my opinion is when they're jailbroken.. I don't care much for their Macs though, because they're overpriced and you're paying for the brand name, not the components. For me, the cons of Apple products outweigh the pros, and that's why I personally don't like Apple.

Heck, if I *ever* I had the desire to use Mac OS for anything, I'd just build a "hackintosh." In the long run, it'd be a lot more cost effective than paying for something that's overly glossy, using outdated hardware, and paying some jacked up price just because something is an Apple product. Personally, I'm happy with Windows 7, it convinced me to take the jump from XP, when Vista failed to do so.. You see people complaining about Vista, and then you see people saying Vista isn't all that bad (It's not *that* bad after a service pack was released, but it still sucks compared to XP and 7) There's a reason Microsoft pushed out Windows 7 in such a short time frame after Vista came out, it's because it was a clusterfuck of fail.


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## Bobbyloujo (Jun 30, 2012)

I mostly don't like them because they act like they're better than all the others and have actually gotten the ignorant (or, computer illerate, I should say) public to believe them. Then they can charge whatever they want for their products because everyone truly believes they are getting something better than anything else out there.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 30, 2012)

Bobbyloujo said:


> I mostly don't like them because they act like they're better than all the others and have actually gotten the ignorant (or, computer illerate, I should say) public to believe them. Then they can charge whatever they want for their products because everyone truly believes they are getting something better than anything else out there.


Like the BS claim "Macs can't get viruses"?


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## chris888222 (Jun 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Bobbyloujo said:
> 
> 
> > I mostly don't like them because they act like they're better than all the others and have actually gotten the ignorant (or, computer illerate, I should say) public to believe them. Then they can charge whatever they want for their products because everyone truly believes they are getting something better than anything else out there.
> ...


Macs cannot get most windows viruses =/= Macs cannot get viruses

Each OS has its vulnerabilities. Nothing is perfect.


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## Lastly (Jul 3, 2012)

Beside the Mac Book Pro, everything is overpriced. For the iOS and iPods, it's simply a step back.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Jul 3, 2012)

CrimzonEyed said:


> I hate both Apple and Microsoft.
> 
> They both do evertything in their might to drain people of money.


Which is unfortunately true for most, if not all, companies and corporations in the world.


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## xwatchmanx (Jul 3, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> Which is unfortunately true for most, if not all, companies and corporations in the world.


Indeed. I don't know why people criminalize specific large companies based on that aspect, when it's true of COUNTLESS companies that they probably don't hate at all. Me, I hate Apple, Sony, and select other companies for reasons having to do with their business ethics, attitude, etc.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 10, 2012)

Don't mean to bump this thread, but meh.

It appears to me that people who hate on Android are the people who have only ever used iOS and has tried maybe one or two low-end Android phones. I've heard arguments that Android is laggy and glitchy, that it doesn't work well at all, that the OS itself looks terrible, but what people don't seem to understand about Android and the devices that use it is they are extremely diverse. One device could never represent the entire Android platform.


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## Fear Zoa (Jul 10, 2012)

I dislike people that assume that because they paid for apples overpriced product that it makes them better then everyone else. 
Likewise I also dislike many of apples business practices (charging premium for storage, non expandable storage, etc..etc)
Besides that I could care less apple is just another pc company (whether they like it or not)


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## Rydian (Jul 10, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> Don't mean to bump this thread, but meh.
> 
> It appears to me that people who hate on Android are the people who have only ever used iOS and has tried maybe one or two low-end Android phones. I've heard arguments that Android is laggy and glitchy, that it doesn't work well at all, that the OS itself looks terrible, but what people don't seem to understand about Android and the devices that use it is they are extremely diverse. One device could never represent the entire Android platform.


I was assigned a first-generation ipad from college for a few months, and I now own a Transformer Prime...

And even on the first-generation iPad, iOS had smoother performance and a more pleasant OS.  The scrollbar in the stock Android browser is ugly as sin versus the slim type used in iOS, the lack of scroll-direction-lock in android is annoyingly apparent and grinds on me whenever I want to zoom in on a page and then scroll only up or down, some of the main system options are instead hidden behind buttons in the top-right in the main systems panel for whatever reason (versus everything on the iOS panel being shown when you enter the category), etc.

I'd still take my prime over the ipad any day for all the other benefits, of course, but there's some things iOS does better (luckily android's always improving).


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 10, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Suprgamr232 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't mean to bump this thread, but meh.
> ...


My point was you can't base the entirety of Android with just one device, the same goes for the Prime. Most of those "problems" are just issues with the Prime (and probably other devices, but not all) I don't use the stock browser cuz it sucks balls, (why you no use Dolphin Browser?) I don't have a problem with scroll-direction-lock on my HP Touchpad...so I'm not sure what's going on there, and the system options vary depending on which firmware you're on and if you're using a tablet or not.

Sure, some devices could be improved upon, you could say that about anything, but saying Android is bad because you have a bad device? That's just dumb.


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## Rydian (Jul 10, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> My point was you can't base the entirety of Android with just one device, the same goes for the Prime. Most of those &quot;problems&quot; are just issues with the Prime (and probably other devices, but not all) I don't use the stock browser cuz it sucks balls, (why you no use Dolphin Browser?)
> Sure, some devices could be improved upon, you could say that about anything, but saying Android is bad because you have a bad device? That's just dumb.


Black and white view, much?  It's possible to complain about something while still preferring it to alternatives, you know.   I said I'd take android over iOS any day.



Suprgamr232 said:


> I don't have a problem with scroll-direction-lock on my HP Touchpad...so I'm not sure what's going on there


I'm talking scroll-direction-lock as in when you scroll only up and down for a moment, it locks it, so any more scrolling in that scroll instance (i.e. without removing your finger from the screen) is in an up/down or left/right motion only.  This allows you to scroll just up and down in a zoomed-in page in the browser (for example) without the page moving slightly side-to-side as your finger does while scrolling.

This feature appears to be missing from android, or at least the prime (I've never tried to use it on a phone).



Suprgamr232 said:


> and the system options vary depending on which firmware you're on and if you're using a tablet or not.


Not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking the secondary options you need to use the context-menu in the upper-right to gain access to.  Examples...

In the Wifi settings I need to click the vertical ellipses button in the upper-left and go to "advanced" in order to get to the settings on whether to keep wifi on during sleep, and to view the MAC address.
In the storage settings I need to use the that button again to access USB settings, for example toggling between MTP and PTP modes (and presumably MSC, though I haven't tried that).
Again these are small gripes (and I only listed the ones I cared about), but those are settings that appear at first glance to not exist in the settings panel until you click an unlabeled button that's not located in the same place as all the other settings, which makes it hard to find.


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## Ralph Steven (Jan 27, 2014)

Apple have a strategy with which I disagree: you pay more for a product but pay even more for accessories. They consider that the price is justified by the quality. Just look at the latest products and see if they are right or not


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## Yepi69 (Jan 27, 2014)

Because they complicate too much, honestly I spent half an hour yesterday trying to find how to send pictures through bluetooth on my mom's iPhone 4, and still couldn't figure out how to transfer pictures.
Through an Android or even older phones I could easily.

They are different and more complicated to use, also they are extremely expensive so that's why people hate it, also buying an Apple computer because you think ''its the best one out there'' its lying to yourself, the specs inside an Apple computer you can build yourself a desktop with more powerful specs and still pay less than you would for an Apple computer.


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## Arras (Jan 27, 2014)

Yepi69 said:


> Because they complicate too much, honestly I spent half an hour yesterday trying to find how to send pictures through bluetooth on my mom's iPhone 4, and still couldn't figure out how to transfer pictures.
> Through an Android or even older phones I could easily.
> 
> They are different and more complicated to use, also they are extremely expensive so that's why people hate it, also buying an Apple computer because you think ''its the best one out there'' its lying to yourself, the specs inside an Apple computer you can build yourself a desktop with more powerful specs and still pay less than you would for an Apple computer.


Actually for the most part they are pretty easy to use, BUT the moment you try to do anything Apple didn't want/care about it suddenly becomes impossible.


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## Edster (Jan 27, 2014)

People will always hate a company once it gets large. They feel they lost their person touch with them. It's just like a band that becomes hugely successful, there are those that will hate them even if they liked them in the past. 

That being said, Apple make a fine product. They control their hardware and software which make some unhappy but it makes for greater compatibility. I have a MacBoook and a MacBook Pro. I don't have to worry that software I buy may work on one and not the other due to hardware issues. I know it will work. My iphone as well and all my contacts and appointments sync flawlessly with icloud through all my devices. This is perfect for me. I would prefer this over Android. Worry free.

Both Microsoft and Apple have their plus and minus. I prefer to use my Mac most times and there are time were I prefer Windows. Some amazing features like being able to boot your computer off a USB has come in handy. 

The haters can hate all they want but Apple must be doing something right and if you consider them overpriced, that is an opinion since people are buying them. So that is an indicator that they are not. I love my MacBook Air and consider it the best notebook I have ever owned. :-)


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 27, 2014)

Edster said:


> People will always hate a company once it gets large. They feel they lost their person touch with them. It's just like a band that becomes hugely successful, there are those that will hate them even if they liked them in the past. *No, that's not what happens. Google and Microsoft don't seem to have this problem, and they're both considerably larger than Apple. *
> 
> That being said, Apple make a fine product. They control their hardware and software which make some unhappy but it makes for greater compatibility. *It's fine to control your hardware and all, but over-charging for your hardware is a no-no. Charging 2x more than a custom built/OEM Windows PC equivalent is silly *I have a MacBoook and a MacBook Pro. I don't have to worry that software I buy may work on one and not the other due to hardware issues. *This isn't a problem on Windows either, besides gaming (but that equally applies to Mac's too so...)* I know it will work. My iphone as well and all my contacts and appointments sync flawlessly with icloud through all my devices. This is perfect for me. I would prefer this over Android. Worry free. *Android/Google has had the same service for years.*
> 
> ...


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 27, 2014)

I hate all their iOS restrictions. You can hardly do anything at all without a jailbreak.
And I hate Macs.
And I hate how overpriced all their products are.

They do make some nice monitors though...

I guess I would say I don't hate them, I just hate the things they do.


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## Edster (Jan 29, 2014)

No that is not true. Microsoft is hated by everyone I know. They use Windows but everyone hates it, especially 8.1.

Also remember you are comparing a hardware company to 2 software giants. You can't compare a Macbook to Microsoft. You can can compare OSX to Windows.

Your argument makes no sense. In your reality Audi and Mercedes should charge the same money for their vehicles as a Honda Civic or Chrysler Neon. Yes they are cars but why does Audi cost so much more? You cannot dictate the price just because you think it's too high. If you don't care for a MacBook go buy and Acer or an E-Machine. What I can tell you is the Mac has a higher resale value. I have sold one of mine and got pretty well exactly what I paid back after almost a year later. I dare you to get that with any laptop in the PC arena.

Also don't tell me you have never had software issues with a PC laptop. The problem is 3rd party vendors add whatever hardware they like and then play catchup with drivers.

Personally, the price of a Mac product doesn't phase me. I've never felt that I have over payed. If I wanted cheaper I could certainly get that but that is not why I bought it in the first place. The choice is always mine and yours for that matter. You don't like it, don't buy it. Simple!


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## DinohScene (Jan 29, 2014)

Apple is a bully.
It's only generating money through suing other companies over the things Apple stole from them.
That and the fanbase is just stupid.

Other then that, I personally think it's overpriced rubbish.
I dun see meself with an apple device any time in the future.
Infact, I dun even use apple software on me lappie for that matter..


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## the_randomizer (Jan 29, 2014)

I despise Apple so much, I bought a Sandisk MP3 player because it's actually good and not overpriced. I don't like their business or their arrogant anti-competition tactics, suing "infringing" companies for every penny they got. They're not getting my money, I assure you. There's not much they can do that other companies cannot do, just the Apple name. Somehow buying an Apple product makes you special but buying an "inferior" or non-Apple product makes people somehow less than them. Am I wrong? Then the whole bullshit marketing that Macs and PCs aren't the same, they are, a Mac is PC with a different OS, that's it. I find it hilarious that telling people how flawed that logic is lol!


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## decemberchild (Jan 29, 2014)

chris888222 said:


> I know Apple can be really stubborn (Flash for iOS, expandable storage, restrictions) but I (at least) like their products - to me they last, *and their customer service is better than any other company (not the best though)*.


 

If their customer service is better than any other company's, then yes it is the best.


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## ground (Jan 29, 2014)

i dont hate apple. i dont like them for the following facts:
they are horrible to their employees ( they make millions and the employees are living in unbearable circumstances)

i think they want to make even more money on suiing everything what looks a little bit like a phone or table ( do you notice, that when you are gonna buy a car, it actually looks like a car!)

they put restrictions on everything.

but i am sure other companies have their downsides to, but actually i dont mind if other people like it ( and it is funn to try to piss them off by saying windows or androi is better  )


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## tbgtbg (Jan 29, 2014)

Hardcore Apple fans are insufferable douches about it, that certainly doesn't help.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 29, 2014)

Edster said:


> No that is not true. Microsoft is hated by everyone I know. They use Windows but everyone hates it, especially 8.1. *And I'm sure you know all (approximately) 1.5 billion people on the planet that use Windows  Just because you know people who don't like Microsoft doesn't mean everybody hates it. *
> 
> Also remember you are comparing a hardware company to 2 software giants. You can't compare a Macbook to Microsoft. You can can compare OSX to Windows. *...what? I wasn't comparing a Macbook to Windows, I was comparing a Macbook to a cheaper and better Windows Ultrabook. *
> 
> ...


 
It's fine and all that you like your Macbook and whatever, but don't try rationalize your opinion as fact when it isn't, and don't argue when you quite obviously have no clue what you're talking about.


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## AngryGeek416 (Jan 29, 2014)

When you're #1 you're hated it's as simple as that. I don't really like anything Apple except for the Macs. I'll be damned if i ever touch another cheap Windows PC again.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 29, 2014)

AngryGeek416 said:


> When you're #1 you're hated it's as simple as that. I don't really like anything Apple except for the Macs. I'll be damned if i ever touch another cheap Windows PC again.


 
Still, a lot of people don't see it that way, and will always assume PCs and Macs are not both the same thing with different OSes. 

Edit: Ninja'd


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## AngryGeek416 (Jan 29, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> There's a major flaw in that though, Macs are still PCs, just with a different operating system. The fact Apple makes it seem like they're not PCs is just weird.


I said "Windows PC" personal computer everything is a PC.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 29, 2014)

AngryGeek416 said:


> I said "Windows PC" personal computer everything is a PC.


 

Fixed. But in general, a lot of people assume that PCs and Macs aren't the same type of thing.


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## McHaggis (Jan 29, 2014)

I kinda skimmed over the thread, but I didn't really see anything about interoperability, the thing Apple sucks the most at (yes, even more than their anti-competitiveness).  Generally, Apple like to create their own stuff so that they can charge hefty license fees to developers and accessory manufacturers at the expense of offering their consumers products that play nice with other products.  Things like:

AirPlay
AirPrint
Proprietary SSD connector
Dock connector
Lightning connector
OK, mostly connectivity stuff.  But the problem now is that all Apple products require their own connectors, they won't work with my wireless printer because it doesn't support AirPrint, they don't work with my Smart TV because my Smart TV only supports WiFi Direct and not AirPlay.  This isn't a recent development, Apple have always been this way, but it only recently affected me.  There are some exceptions to the rule, however, like FireWire.

Going back to the anti-competitiveness, I've mentioned this before, but iOS's app store doesn't even allow developers to submit browser apps that aren't Safari with a different coat of paint.  This is something Microsoft have been repeatedly targeted for, despite the fact that Windows does let you install other browsers.  How Apple manage to get away with it, I'll never know.


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## XDel (Jan 29, 2014)

I grew up on Atari and Amiga computers (Jay Miner tech). I have watched the lies upon which the two computer giants (Microsloth and Apple) have built their empire, and have had a keen enough eye on their business ethic, to clearly to see where they (and other business elite) intend to take "Joe consumer" in the 21st century.
That being said I also just hate the experience of using their modern incarnation of NEXT. There is just something about the general interface that they ripped off Xerox years ago that has never sat well with me.

Amiga, AROS, and especially MorphOS suit me just fine for my every day needs, be it browsing the web, playing musick, composing music via MIDI, watching movies, games, file transfers, etc. No viruses, no adware, not bloat, just a smooth polished experience.
For those applications and other things that I can not yet do on the Amiga variants or Haiku (BeOS) for that matter, I use Linux Mint (mate). I can not think of a single thing that Linux Mint can not do and do well, with the exception of run GzDOOM Builder, Slade, Adobe Premier, and After Effects, which is the ONLY reason I keep a Winblows machine in the house, well that and to experience next gen gaming because I'll never invest in Sony and Microsoft's game consoles.


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## Arras (Jan 29, 2014)

McHaggis said:


> I kinda skimmed over the thread, but I didn't really see anything about interoperability, the thing Apple sucks the most at (yes, even more than their anti-competitiveness). Generally, Apple like to create their own stuff so that they can charge hefty license fees to developers and accessory manufacturers at the expense of offering their consumers products that play nice with other products. Things like:
> 
> AirPlay
> AirPrint
> ...


Actually from what I know Apple doesn't allow anything in the App Store that competes with the built in apps. That's why all the wifi check apps were removed at some point.


Tom Bombadildo said:


> *


Butbut mah retina ;o;


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## XDel (Jan 29, 2014)

Arras said:


> Actually from what I know Apple doesn't allow anything in the App Store that competes with the built in apps. That's why all the wifi check apps were removed at some point.
> 
> Butbut mah retina ;o;


 

Yes... thank our precious governments for making sure that anti-monopoly laws are not violated as such.


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## Kouen Hasuki (Jan 29, 2014)

With Apple your paying as much for the gadget as you are the logo, that much is true and im some ways I do compare it to buying a regular non popular brand pair of Sneekers / Running Shoes / Trainers (or what ever you trendy kids call em these days) to a pair of Nike / Rebook or what nots both do exactly the same job to most of the time the same degree too (as long as you don't buy the absolute cheapest possible) some of it your paying for branding.

That said:
Do I hate apple? Nope not at all.
Do I feel iOS is restricted on there iPod/Pad/Phone? Yeah, though generally things do run smoother with them for that fact.
Do I own Apple products? Yup 1x 3rd Gen Nano, 1x 5th Gen Video (Broken atm) & 1x iPhone 3GS.
Would I recommend an Apple product? Depends on the person if they want a less fuss smartphone then sure why not.
Is my phone I use from Apple? Nope. Samsung Galaxy S2. Quite a nice phone though a bit older now.

I Tend to stand back and look at the big picture with all this some hate Apple "Fanboys" or what nots but in honesty there on Both sides... Hell I think I had a thread on the temp at one point when I was using an iPhone 4 on how much I was harassed by Android users that I should "Stop being a sheep" and get a android (though amusingly I shot that comment down mentioning that the android marketshare is huge compared to apple so technically getting a android by that argument would make me a sheep) but being on Android I get Apple fanboys telling me there iPhones just work ect ect. I tend to try to ignore it all.

You see as much as you like or dislike a company or a product of a company its a waste of time to moan and rant about it. It's much more simple to vote with your wallet and let others use what they want to use! If they are happy on there iPad and your happy on your Galaxy Tab why rock the boat ya know 

As a side note before I forget: I never actually paid for any of the Apple products above they was given to me and the 3GS I use as an iPod Touch these days


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## Arras (Jan 29, 2014)

Kouen Hasuki said:


> With Apple your paying as much for the gadget as you are the logo, that much is true and im some ways I do compare it to buying a regular non popular brand pair of Sneekers / Running Shoes / Trainers (or what ever you trendy kids call em these days) to a pair of Nike / Rebook or what nots both do exactly the same job to most of the time the same degree too (as long as you don't buy the absolute cheapest possible) some of it your paying for branding.
> 
> That said:
> Do I hate apple? Nope not at all.
> ...


I feel pretty much the same way. While much of Apple's lineup is overpriced it isn't bad per se and has several advantages. I don't hate them but I wouldn't recommend a tech savvy person to get one. You can do much of what OSX does by installing some flavor of Linux and customizing it a bit and Android phones tend to be more open than iOS devices. On the other hand if you don't know much about technology, don't need customization and have a bunch of money by all means get some Apple stuff.
That said I used to hate them for no reason other than being overpriced and closed systems so maybe the people here will get over it.


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## nando (Jan 29, 2014)

are macs overpriced? maybe/probably. but their high resell value more than makes up the difference. and if you don't resell, the macs tend to last.

my sister is still using my power mac g4 that i bought 12 years ago. i told her to throw it away or donate it, but it still works without problems so she doesn't.

at work i'm still using a mac pro from 2006. the office bought it refurbishes for 2000 dollars. for almost 8 years running without issues i'd say 250/year for a reliable computer is not costly at all.

the current resell value for my mac pro is 400-600 dollars. as soon as they get me a the new mac pro i'm putting this one on craiglist, making the overall cost for a computer that lasted 8 years ~1600 dollars.


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## Edster (Jan 29, 2014)

Whatever dude! Go buy your Acer machine. You need to get over it as they are not over priced. If they were no one would buy them. Then again everyone must be wrong because you the all mighty have spoken. 

I've seen ultrabooks over $1000 but whatever, you are the man! Enjoy your crown...






Tom Bombadildo said:


> It's fine and all that you like your Macbook and whatever, but don't try rationalize your opinion as fact when it isn't, and don't argue when you quite obviously have no clue what you're talking about.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 29, 2014)

Edster said:


> Whatever dude! Go buy your Acer machine. You need to get over it as *they are not over priced. If they were no one would buy them*. Then again everyone must be wrong because you the all mighty have spoken.
> 
> I've seen ultrabooks over $1000 but whatever, you are the man! Enjoy your crown...


That's not how the market works. Some people pay extortionist prices just because of the label on the product. Apple products are notorious for having inflated prices, you can get equivalent or superior machines from high-end manufacturers like ASUS, Toshiba, Lenovo, Samsung, Sony or DELL for less, that's pretty much the definition of _"overpriced"_.


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## McHaggis (Jan 29, 2014)

Arras said:


> That said I used to hate them for no reason other than being overpriced and closed systems so maybe the people here will get over it.


 
Hate is a strong, aggressive word that people throw around too freely IMO.  It sounds very absolute, associated with hostility and anger and, at the end of the day, it's hard to be angry and hostile towards a company, because their products don't appeal to you, without sounding a little bit silly or childish.  Hatred should be reserved for irrevocable wrongdoings that cause significant harm.


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## Chocolina (Jan 31, 2014)

My hate for Apple is basically summed in the first 3 minutes of this:


The video doesn't say, but the Macbook also wasn't the 1st wedge-shaped laptop, but apple owns a patent on it though.

Post Wozniak Apple is shit apple. They patent ridiculous things like shapes of product and placement of things in UI's, even if they weren't the 1st, and then sue the people that do things "too similar" after, as well as sue the people that helped them make their products if that product is successful. Apple sues Samsung because of a rectangle with curved edged, even though Samsung helped make their iPhones and iPads. That is fucking insane. They sue the people that originally held the name for iPhone. I also think they sued a school because of a logo of an apple.

And I could go on about ridiculous price markups on products for brand name alone, factory conditions, control over OS, and other things like company, employee, and customer images, but Apple's shameful business practices and arrogance completely turns me off. They're about as evil and unapologetic as Monsanto or Time Warner. Why would I want to use a product with their branding, regardless of how competent or incompetent their hardware and software is?

And lets not forget how they changed the iPhone standard port to Thunderbolt, with USB 2.0 speeds/no added speed value, so they can force people to buy $50 adapters if they want to upgrade.


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## overdriver (Jan 31, 2014)

it's just pretty good designed overpriced machine. you pay for the design (of its hardware & software) and it's pretty cool. I think they deserve that much price but their arrogance to jack up the price of their misc. items like power adaptors etc is too much though. A company put some special security chip in power adapter.... omg it's too greedy even if their excuse of its security.
other than that the price.. I think Apple is just another typical big corp. out of zillons out there - all companies are same once it got bigger. I don't see any major difference to make me to hate/dislike them.


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## quinterrya (Jan 31, 2014)

yuyuyup said:


> Their Apple vs PC ads were extremely polarizing and insulting. There is an air of superiority that is heaped upon the brand, and the fragmentation of non-Apple hardware creates a smaller tent of Android/PC/Xbox supporters apposed to one united Apple front.


 
You have notice that the ads stopped after Windows 7 was reviewed as being as good (if not better) than OS 10 (i think that was the version). Apparently, they need to bring it back because Windows 8 sucks.


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## Arras (Jan 31, 2014)

quinterrya said:


> You have notice that the ads stopped after Windows 7 was reviewed as being as good (if not better) than OS 10 (i think that was the version). Apparently, they need to bring it back because Windows 8 sucks.


Apparently Windows 8 is actually not that bad. It's not like it has compatiblity problems or anything. The only issue is that people keep hammering about the start menu. On the other hand, OS X never even had a start menu yet everyone is fine with that. Hell, on OS X the best way to view all your installed programs is to use Launchpad, which is fullscreen. Just like the Windows 8 start menu which everyone keeps complaining about. But no, Windows 8 is evil. But that's a discussion for another thread.


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## Qtis (Jan 31, 2014)

Arras said:


> Apparently Windows 8 is actually not that bad. It's not like it has compatiblity problems or anything. The only issue is that people keep hammering about the start menu. On the other hand, OS X never even had a start menu yet everyone is fine with that. Hell, on OS X the best way to view all your installed programs is to use Launchpad, which is fullscreen. Just like the Windows 8 start menu which everyone keeps complaining about. But no, Windows 8 is evil. But that's a discussion for another thread.


 
Personally I don't like the launchpad, but then again.. I started using a Mac back in the 90's due to my school using them. I just switched from OS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) to 10.9 (Mavericks) and pretty much the major visual differences are the way Finder works out and how the launchpad is used. I prefer the simplistic approach and use the Dock for all my needs (a separate folder if there are larger amounts of stuff that I rarely use). The change in Windows 8 was problematic due to different apps in Metro. If everything was interchangeable and without a problem between Metro and desktop, no one would have cared. Otherwise Apple's OS X would have been a disaster years ago. But alas, it's a very efficient OS and runs on relatively low specs quite well.

I'm a bit surprised that people tend to imagine that "pro users" never use Apple products because they're bad. That they "only use Linux" because OS X or Apple hardware are shit. Take for example Linus Torvalds. The person responsible for pretty much the whole development of the Linux Kernel and many features for it. Nowadays runs the Linux Kernel development with a group of people and companies, but still. And he uses a MacBook Air. And he's not the only one. The hardware is very functional regardless of the specs (hell, most people don't even need that latest i7 to run their browser for Facebook).

Another point I've noticed people ignore quite easily: ease of use. Sure the latest MBPs have quite a lot of propriety parts (which I dislike), but my 2010 15" MBP is still in use and hasn't let me down after the screen was changed (happens to about 1-2% of all LCD screen regardless of quality control, i.e. I got a new screen after about 1.5 years without any extra charges). Now I changed a 256GB Samsung 840 Pro (Sata III while I only have a Sata II port due to the age) and it boots faster than pretty much any other laptop I've used for the last year or so. I'm talking about OS X and Windows 8.1 booting on a piece of hardware that is closer to 4 years old, which hasn't happened on many laptops before. Oh, and I'm still using the original battery (854 cycles, should be changed due to age). Only thing missing now is USB 3.0, which wasn't very popular at the time..


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## WiiCube_2013 (Jan 31, 2014)

So many limitations, overpriced unnecessarily, nothing amazing and the worst? Gaming.

Apple needs to get rid of their restrictions and bullshit marketing but.. the Apple drones buy every single one so they won't even bother with it.


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## TemplarGR (Jan 31, 2014)

No one really hates Apple. But i believe most of the "hate" comes as a reaction to Apple's viral marketing brigades... Apple didn't create its "premium" image by being the best of the best. They use shady marketing tactics as well... So people that understand technology and prefer it to marketing tend to be quite critical of Apple.

I don't hate Apple, but i wouldn't touch any of their products even if they paid me too... I just don't like them and i don't believe they are useful for any other use except as expensive toys...


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## Jayro (Jan 31, 2014)

I grew up with Apple IIe computers in school, and my schools didn't upgrade to Windows machines until Windows 95 came around. I never cared for Apple's software library, and I find it's OS clunky at best... It's missing several basic functions, and the lack of customization is really a huge downfall with me. Apple's hardware is inferior for the price you pay for an Apple device. It looks flashy, but one drop breaks the screen? They need to invest in Gorilla Glass or something.

I can't install emulators orother apps by sideloading on iOS, and that's another turn off. No SD expansion? Nope... I'm gone. I just find that Android offers much more freedom on their devices, and many more features like larger screens, better sounding audio, easier tethering (USB AND Wi-Fi) and I can even use my phone as a giant USB stick if I want.

Apple can't do that on a PC (which most of the world uses) because it uses HFS+ partition format. I also don't care for Apple's "support this hardware for 2 years, then drop all support for it" attitude. As much as it may be common business practice these days, it still doesn't make me happy as a consumer. I should support my iOS version updates on my iPod Touch first gen for 5 years, minimum. I also used to enjoy the iPod nano series of iPods, but even those have gotten awful now.


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## Arras (Jan 31, 2014)

JayRo said:


> I grew up with Apple IIe computers in school, and my schools didn't upgrade to Windows machines until Windows 95 came around. I never cared for Apple's software library, and I find it's OS clunky at best... It's missing several basic functions, and the lack of customization is really a huge downfall with me. Apple's hardware is inferior for the price you pay for an Apple device. It looks flashy, but one drop breaks the screen? They need to invest in Gorilla Glass or something.
> 
> I can't install emulators orother apps by sideloading on iOS, and that's another turn off. No SD expansion? Nope... I'm gone. I just find that Android offers much more freedom on their devices, and many more features like larger screens, better sounding audio, easier tethering (USB AND Wi-Fi) and I can even use my phone as a giant USB stick if I want.
> 
> Apple can't do that on a PC (which most of the world uses) because it uses HFS+ partition format. I also don't care for Apple's "support this hardware for 2 years, then drop all support for it" attitude. As much as it may be common business practice these days, it still doesn't make me happy as a consumer. I should support my iOS version updates on my iPod Touch first gen for 5 years, minimum. I also used to enjoy the iPod nano series of iPods, but even those have gotten awful now.


If you still have that first gen iTouch, you might want to look into installing Whited00r.


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## Jayro (Jan 31, 2014)

Arras said:


> If you still have that first gen iTouch, you might want to look into installing Whited00r.


 
*ears perk up*

You have my interest now, BRB... Googling. OwO


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## slingblade1170 (Feb 20, 2014)

Was the first ipod touch/iphone/MACbook a game changing device? Yes, but Windows & Android has improved so much that the IOS OS has become inferior. Android KitKat is so much better along with the Google Play Store.


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## XDel (Feb 20, 2014)

I loath both Apple and Microsoft alike. Always have since the mid 80's at least.


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## Jayro (Feb 20, 2014)

slingblade1170 said:


> Was the first ipod touch/iphone/MACbook a game changing device? Yes, but Windows & Android has improved so much that the IOS OS has become inferior. Android KitKat is so much better along with the Google Play Store.


 
This. Very much this.


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## Count Duckula (Feb 20, 2014)

"Good artists copy, great artists steal"- Steve Jobs, on the success of 'his' products at apple
"I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product", "I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this" - Steve jobs, on the success of android.

Personally I dislike IOS devices for their highly objectionable lockdown, and the anti-consumer-freedom direction their success has pushed the market for consumer computing devices.
I hate Apple as a company for their willingness to claim ownership of broad concepts and get lawsuit happy over them. Everyone copies from everyone, IOS would be a lesser product if it was not for android's competition.

They need to focus more on making competitive products and less on suing everyone out of some arrogant belief they can own the entire concept of a 'simplified, fullscreen, low information density' GUI paradigm for small touchscreen devices.

An old, quite amusing take on the concept: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant


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## slingblade1170 (Feb 20, 2014)

I don't like Steve Jobs for his product per say but because of him the devices such as Windows & Android had to improve drastically to stay ahead of the game against Apple. So, without Steve Jobs we may still be using flip phones with a useless OS and basic functions. Steve Jobs was an ass, conceded but thats what Apple needed.


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## Dhampir (Feb 20, 2014)

I hate how the overprice their goods at the cost of people in Asia jumping off buildings due to poor treatment of employees and harsh working conditions.


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## Clydefrosch (Feb 20, 2014)

people dont hate apple, but people hate what apple does to people who try to get rid of all the dissonance that builds up after paying too much for a product thats not really worth that much and end up being obsolete in about a year time and time again.

granted, if I won an apple phone of any kind, I'd surely use it and be happy with what it does. but if I'd ever spend as much money on a phone as apple is asking for, it would not be for an apple phone


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## the_randomizer (Feb 20, 2014)

If someone gave me an Apple product they didn't want anymore I'd just sell it to some poor sap on Craigslist. I hate their price gouging, anti-competitive motifs and their whole proprietary/non-standardized hardware where you have to buy some stupid accessory for every single device.


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## AngryGeek416 (Feb 20, 2014)

Hate = Can't afford. That's how i see it, just like many things out there when you're on top people hate you.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 20, 2014)

AngryGeek416 said:


> Hate = Can't afford. That's how i see it, just like many things out there when you're on top people hate you.


 

Not necessarily, when people buy Apple products, they develop a sense of false superiority, they think their products are the best thing in the world and that either you get them or you're considered uncool.


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## JoostinOnline (Feb 21, 2014)

I hate ignorant Apple fans more than I hate Apple.


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## nando (Feb 21, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Not necessarily, when people buy Apple products, they develop a sense of false superiority, they think their products are the best thing in the world and that either you get them or you're considered uncool.


 

that's really funny because it takes a senses of superiority to say something like that.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 21, 2014)

nando said:


> that's really funny because it takes a senses of superiority to say something like that.


 

*Excuse* me? I'm not trying to be that at all, I hate Apple products like I would a disease. Don't accuse me of being like an Apple fanatic, which I've no part of. I was making a statement, an opinion, of their supposed superiority, of which I have none whatsoever. Don't accuse me of being like that please, I hate Apple like no other.

Apple sucks, their products aren't that special, and they're too damned expensive. It'll be a cold day in hell before you catch me with one of their products.


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## Social_Outlaw (Feb 21, 2014)

Nah I don't think so, I remember when I had the ipod touch, when it first release, I loved playing it, I was addicted to it as a kid at the time, but it didn't drive me towards the apple company, it just drove me to their product. Apple is overrated, how the Hell after all these years, you still don't support sd cards! Thats pathetic, Is apple that afraid that they might lose sales from their products. There probably thinking, "If we adds mirco sd support, we might lose sales, due to the fact, If customers fill up internal space on there ipad or whatever, they have external storage, and that might limit customers from buying future apple products, and we can't have that." Apple don't give people what they want, just like mircosoft. My grandmother has a ipad 3gen, and she loves  it, I asked her "Was it really worth all that money?" And she replied "No", so I replied and said "Grandma the hardware isn't even compare to it's price basically what im trying to say is your getting ripped off". We both Laughed, but anyway what im trying to say is, if you get apple, don't buy because of the hype, buy it because you want it, EVEN though your still getting ripped off, like people still buying Cod over and over for the same shit every year lol.


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## Nismax (Apr 2, 2014)

Here's why Apple sucks, and here's why people hate them. At least for me.

Their target market is the computer illiterate and the naive. Their user friendly approach has RUINED technology, and dumbed it down to the point where it's now mainstream to create, and advertise in a watered down manner that may as well be targeted at little children. Everything with Apple is aimed towards being user friendly, yet is extremely illogical, impractical and downright annoying.

Unfortunately, countless companies have followed in their wussified footsteps. I thought the future would be awesome when I was a kid, but it's almost nauseating.  Apple is much to blame.


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## dragonmaster (Apr 2, 2014)

i have an ipad ,iphone and even and f i can afford it i wont buy again ,the reason is that they thing they can do whatever they want ,come on who needs to pay apple for to put god damn ringtones on iphone ,or why to use email to send pics if i have bluetooth just tell me reason,also what the hell is the mania with the bug free support of new updates ,i had a friend with the iphone 4 and was talking high cause he received the ios 7.1 but you know what the difference is os respnses between my iphone 5 and his was too high ,even though with ios 6.1 it was working as good
for me apple is a trend with no reason ,they are patent trolls ,they copyright what thing they want even though their copyright is illegal in some coutries
thats why people dont like it cause it is just there to be a trend,now some are awakening for the dream and see that apple is naked ,you buy a bare phone and you are willing to pay a ransom to dress it well boohoo i wont do that again


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## Nismax (Apr 3, 2014)

I was introduced to computers on Apples IIE and 68k Macs.  They were cool back then.  Now Apple is just in tard mode, has been since Windows 95 came out.  It wasn't too long ago EVERYONE hated Apple, but then they decided to act as if they invented the MP3, sourced some skilled Asians to build their little iThings and fooled people into believing there was more to it than just some marketing puke behind it all (Steve Jobs).


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## RodrigoDavy (Apr 3, 2014)

- Everything that is Apple branded cost like twice their competitors.
- Apple tend to put arbitrary limitations in their products, no SD card slot for iPhone/Ipad/Ipod. With Macintosh, bluetooth is mainly compatible with iDevices only.
- Apple is a well known patent troll and have sued many companies for no good reason.
- Steve Jobs wanted to destroy Android because it was a copy of iOS, but the Mac OS started as a black and white copy of Xerox Alto's GUI.
- Apple fans have a urge to justify the money they spent in Apple product, so they start thinking their device is the best in the world.
- Mac OS X convinced me that Linux distros have more intuictive user interface and are easier to use. But since people spend tons of money in iMacs/Macbooks they are willing to try harder to use Apple's software.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Apr 3, 2014)

I predict there will not be a reason to hate Apple for much longer... (Why hate on the dead?) 

With Steve Jobs gone, I think Apple will go back to the company it was before when he was fired. Just shy of going out of business.


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## VashTS (Apr 6, 2014)

i think they make excellently built machines  but the price is absurd and the OS does not feel as powerful/supported as others. Namely Android and Windows. 

i have an ipad mini and i've had an iphone in the past so my experience is limited.


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## 3bbb7 (Apr 8, 2014)

"their customer service is better than any other company (not the best though)"
wat

I've been using Apple devices (iOS devices) for years. It was stupid. New releases every 3 months (seems like). There's absolutely no reason the buy the new phone that comes out anymore because the next one S is going to be out in just a few months. It's ridiculous.
iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5S, and I see no reason to believe they won't follow the same path for the iPhone 6.

It's stupid. They overcharge for the low quality specs they provide. You pay for an Apple logo and a shiny back cover on your device. It's not plastic so it's OK to charge $300 more for it.
People complain that 'it runs fast so the specs don't matter' and sure, that's true, but why? Because Apple locks you down to how they want you to have your device. You can change your icons around, and your wallpaper, but that's it, and that's all you'll ever get from them. You can't change your icons (without jailbreaking), you can't get a different launcher (like Android), you even have to use that atrocious program itunes if you want to add music or videos or whatever.
If you want to just add a song, you have to plug in your iPhone, open up iTunes (and watch a movie or two while it loads), choose the device, add the songs to your iTunes library, add the song to the device, sync it, then FINALLY you can disconnect.
You can plug an Android into literally any computer, drag a music or video file over, and be done in under a minute, no syncing required or anything.

I finally made the switch and I couldn't be happier.
I'm here enjoying my Nexus 5, a device that while outdated in terms of newer models, won't be considered old for quite a few years.

Oh btw, my Nexus 5 was $350 unlocked. The iPhone 5S unlocked is $700.
Weird because the Nexus 5 has (for the most part) better specs.


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## Zerousen (Apr 9, 2014)

It goes both ways, whether it be Android or Apple, PC or Mac, always gonna have the fanboys. Personally, I think Apple products are just fine for what they are intended for. Sure, I do think there are better options, but I also think that Apple products have an extremely top notch and premium feel/build. Whether the reason is good or not, an opinion is simply an opinion, it is your own judgement.


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## cracker (Apr 9, 2014)

I don't care for Apple because of their exorbitantly-priced hardware but I hate them for being control freaks on iDevices and not giving any non-OSX computers support for programming them.


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## filfat (Apr 15, 2014)

You can compare Apple to those Indian "Tech Support Centers" sure they are funny to mess with but the scam you and that's why we hate them...


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## MrEl (Apr 18, 2014)

I have Macbook Air, iMac, iPod (nana and touch), iPad, and iPhones (3gs, 4, 4s, 5).
Only thing I hate about Apple is that you have to (always) use iTunes to do something.


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