# Your Opinions on Piracy?



## Deleted User (Apr 13, 2015)

In my opinion, I think piracy is somewhat okay, if you are someone who can't afford very much, then I think it makes sense to pirate a game or program. If you have enough money to buy the actual product, then I think pirating something is okay only to try the program/game out first.

There's also this thread for discussing Wii U piracy
And this thread for discussing 3DS piracy.


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## RevPokemon (Apr 13, 2015)

There are a lot of posts on this and varying opinions.

Myself I believe that media should be free and available to everyone so it can be enjoyed by all people regardless of their financial status or ability to buy it. Knowledge to the people is power and removing said knowledge via censorship and laws is weakening said knowledge towards the people...


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## sarkwalvein (Apr 13, 2015)

Whenever you pirate you should take care to leave enough food for the merchant/sailors to survive.
Don't be a bad pirate, remember, a merchant alive is a merchant that you can pirate again, and everybody wins?


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## the_randomizer (Apr 13, 2015)

Want my take on the situation? I don't care about games that companies no longer generate profit from and therefore as such, I download old school games anywhere from Snes to Gamecube. There I said it.  Also, if I own the game, I make backups of it so I don't have to buy a new copy.


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## Depravo (Apr 13, 2015)

RevPokemon said:


> Myself I believe that media should be free and available to everyone so it can be enjoyed by all people regardless of their financial status or ability to buy it. Knowledge to the people is power and removing said knowledge via censorship and laws is weakening said knowledge towards the people...


 
That opinion works for things like news reports and education but I'm not sure it applies to non-essential luxury goods like videogames and pop music etc.


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## IpsoFact0 (Apr 13, 2015)

It's theft. That's it.


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## RevPokemon (Apr 13, 2015)

Depravo said:


> That opinion works for things like news reports and education but I'm not sure it applies to non-essential luxury goods like videogames and pop music etc.


To me it personally does in the sense that it is part of our Nation's society whether we like it or not and likewise it has a need to be preserved (kinda like how the Smithsonian has things from pop culture)


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## Depravo (Apr 13, 2015)

RevPokemon said:


> (kinda like how the Smithsonian has things from pop culture)


 
I suspect the Smithsonian paid for those things (or had them donated or licensed from legitimate sources).


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## RevPokemon (Apr 13, 2015)

Depravo said:


> I suspect the Smithsonian paid for those things (or had them donated or licensed from legitimate sources).


By that I was referring to the need for society to preserve all parts of its culture. But I can see your point but personally I feel all forms of media and culture should be shared as long as its reasonable and easy to do


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 13, 2015)

My opinion is that this is a touchy subject.


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## Deleted User (Apr 13, 2015)

Personally I believe that piracy laws shouldn't apply to discontinued games or programs because money is no longer being generated. If you get it for free, they aren't missing anything because they weren't planning on monetizing off of it anyways.


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## Digital.One.Entity (Apr 13, 2015)

I Aarrgghhh-gue the topic is a heated one for the Ages


But since the Dawn of the Interwebs all Information,including digital, is up for the taking which I believe is part of the deal

Preservation or Piracy ?


If I had a chance to play a Ultra Rare Obscure Limited Print of a Game and the only way of doing that is thru Piracy?

Well shiver me Timbers and Strap me to the Plank cause I'm a Coming


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## Smuff (Apr 13, 2015)

I do what I want. You're not my mum. No, YOU shut up.


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## Hells Malice (Apr 13, 2015)

Piracy has its uses. I'd say more but honestly this has become a weekly thread and anything there is to be said, has been said about a hundred thousand times already.



IpsoFact0 said:


> It's theft. That's it.


 

That's pretty much like saying i've stolen your post when I quote it.
Piracy may not be legal, but certainly isn't theft.


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## RevPokemon (Apr 13, 2015)

Hells Malice said:


> Piracy has its uses. I'd say more but honestly this has become a weekly thread and anything there is to be said, has been said about a hundred thousand times already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But it is like stealing a car -FBI


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## Catastrophic (Apr 13, 2015)

I pirate when I deem it appropriate. Otherwise I buy my stuff.


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## GhostLatte (Apr 13, 2015)

Piracy is not theft because theft removes the original and piracy makes a copy.


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## pyromaniac123 (Apr 13, 2015)

The Somalis do it the best.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 13, 2015)

The whole "piracy is theft" argument is old. It's played out and flat out wrong.


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## Maz7006 (Apr 13, 2015)

How many threads have discussed this? Still nothing bad.

If you'd ask me this 3 years ago I would have posted the exact opposite to my opinion now. I buy all my games now; between sales or a long awaited game I can afford it now. Then again I barely play as much as I do. 

Piracy is wrong, but I believe that the claims of how much it hurts the industry (gaming or otherwise) is overflated and inaccurate.


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## Deleted User (Apr 13, 2015)

Maz7006 said:


> How many threads have discussed this? Still nothing bad.
> 
> If you'd ask me this 3 years ago I would have posted the exact opposite to my opinion now. I buy all my games now; between sales or a long awaited game I can afford it now. Then again I barely play as much as I do.
> 
> Piracy is wrong, but I believe that the claims of how much it hurts the industry (gaming or otherwise) is overflated and inaccurate.


 
I honestly agree that piracy is wrong, the only reason why I do it is because I'm a poor bastard.
Hopefully that changes soon


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## the_randomizer (Apr 13, 2015)

My opinion is that people should stop being bleeding white-knighting sycophants about old games that don't generate profit for any of the companies and get over it


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## Deleted User (Apr 13, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> My opinion is that people should stop being sycophants about old games that don't generate profit


 
That's also something I agree with.


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## IpsoFact0 (Apr 14, 2015)

I always love these threads tho lol its like thief group therapy y'all get together to try and justify your theft to yourselves and the world, hilarious.


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## Ra1d (Apr 14, 2015)

IpsoFact0 said:


> I always love these threads tho lol its like thief group therapy y'all get together to try and justify your theft to yourselves and the world, hilarious.


 

gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8/8


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## the_randomizer (Apr 14, 2015)

IpsoFact0 said:


> I always love these threads tho lol its like thief group therapy y'all get together to try and justify your theft to yourselves and the world, hilarious.


 

That's nice, but...most of us really don't give a damn.  We needn't hear the diatribes and shenanigans of anti-piracy soothsayers.


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## DinohScene (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh look!
Another opinion on piracy thread.

Imho, anyone that knows how to hack a console, knows how to patch games if needed, knows how to steer clear of getting banned etc and has a bit of common sense can pirate.
Some people just don't deserve it.
Like that lad who got angry that he couldn't get a Gateway...


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## Thomas83Lin (Apr 14, 2015)

"Piracy" Well it doesn't really matter what my opinion is, its stealing end of discussion. You might try to justify your reasons doing it to yourself and others, but its still stealing. I may do it myself but atleast I know its wrong Never really understood these kinds of threads I guess its like a support group for pirates.


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## sarkwalvein (Apr 14, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I honestly agree that piracy is wrong, the only reason why I do it is because I'm a poor bastard.
> Hopefully that changes soon


 
Meh. I don't believe piracy is wronger than... not sorting your waste like a good citizen.
It is not right, you should sort your waste, but nobody will die if you throw some glass in the plastics bin.


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## kyogo (Apr 14, 2015)

I've encountered game piracy since NES days but I wasn't aware of it. It is a yin to their yang, a balance. A console can be good, but it can be greater if you can unlock its full potential.

The first piracy that I was aware of was when I bought a Chrono Trigger cartridge clone or whatever you call it-- it was really cheap. I enjoyed the game, so I bought the original cartridge because the game deserves a full support.
Yes piracy can be wrong specially when the game is really good-- but do you think it's right for them to rip us off by making a half-assed game not worth our money? Now that's stealing.
We have rights. We can do whatever we want to and not just piracy. What we should really worry about is the growing, pathetic, money-grabbing mobile gaming which can potentially harm the console/handheld gaming industry.


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## Vipera (Apr 14, 2015)

Vipera said:


> The usual.
> 
> I'm for the piracy with the intent to preserve the original files, I'm against the "I have no money yet I spent $5 on this latte". I applaud those who exported unknown coin-op games on the web, while I flip off the ones who uploaded Bayonetta.
> 
> ...


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## 2Hack (Apr 14, 2015)

Eh, I think it is something that the gaming industry really needs to learn to embrace and play it properly. Games like Game Dev Tycoon, Mine Craft, and such. They acknowledge that it is a thing that they can not prevent, and instead tip toe around it and find the correct way to play the general pirates.

Games like Jack the assassinator pirate IVinb4 someone thinks it's a real game that just put out a "game" rather than an actual game kind of deserve to be crushed.
Games like Shovel Knight and such, are going to benefit from it. They get publicity from it, and people that are willing to pay, will pay when they realize that it is in fact a good game and worth the support. When something is free, it reaches more people, who in turn start to spread the word.

Nintendo is known for releasing obsolete tech because they insist on making a profit on each console. This protects them from any potential damage, and in a way, which supports them in pumping out games; with or without piracy being rampant.I won't go into the subject of Sony and Microsoft as I don't know enough about their scenes.

I know a lot of people picked up n3DS consoles because they could pirate. I know many people also picked up the OG3DS in the first place, for piracy. People will buy the wiiU eventually once piracy is up and running. It is just going to happen whether you like it or not, so devs should just learn to play these pirates in the right way.


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## omegasoul6 (Apr 14, 2015)

IpsoFact0 said:


> I always love these threads tho lol its like thief group therapy y'all get together to try and justify your theft to yourselves and the world, hilarious.


 

I'm not quite sure you understand the basic concept of what piracy is.
Piracy is many things, but not theft.


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## tbb043 (Apr 14, 2015)

I will not condone piracy. Robbery on the high seas is absolutely wrong. Damn you Johnny Depp!


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## Bimmel (Apr 14, 2015)

What every good piracy thread needs, right? No opinion from me included.


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## RevPokemon (Apr 14, 2015)

Bimmel said:


> What every good piracy thread needs, right? No opinion from me included.



Funny since that character has been around forever


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## Bimmel (Apr 14, 2015)

RevPokemon said:


> Funny since that character has been around forever


I don't know. Who is that rabbit?


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## VinsCool (Apr 14, 2015)

Bimmel said:


> What every good piracy thread needs, right? No opinion from me included.




This song was hillarous


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## RevPokemon (Apr 14, 2015)

Bimmel said:


> I don't know. Who is that rabbit?


If I'm correct he has been around for a long time as a protest by underground comics who made pirates of mickey mouse despite what Disney said


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## Spaqin (Apr 14, 2015)

As a single person, me pirating or not will not change anything. And I can just enjoy some games I wouldn't before as a broke student.

I don't pirate much on PC though, the prices are low and profits from having a legit copy are too high.

Free market. I consider service of pirates' better than Nintendo's, but lower than Valve's.


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## Margen67 (Apr 15, 2015)

Margen67 said:


> I'm pro piracy because I'm a dirty entitled pirate and therefore a horrible car-purse downloading thief.
> 
> Seriously though, I only buy online games when they don't let you join "legit" servers.
> 
> ...


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 15, 2015)

Gonna add this to the OP of my thread, if that's ok.

My opinion is that I will not pirate anything unless it is literally impossible for me to get a copy by legitimate means (for instance, I would feel justified in downloading a copy of Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii), but pirating something like NSMBW is stupid and unjustifiable)


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## Dragaan (Apr 15, 2015)

It's illegal, and if everyone did it, there would be no monetary incentive for developers to... develop.

I'm fine with it if you must, but I support something like what Min Liang Tan (CEO of Razer) did, because honestly, financial situations are different for everybody.


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## TemplarGR (Apr 15, 2015)

The topic of piracy is a tired one. The conclusion is this:

Developers and publishers of a game should be paid for their work. Games are not created using free or slave labour...

On the other hand, games were and still are often overpriced for what they offer. Also the fact that you buy based on a promise for content, before actually experiencing it, combined with the blatant corruption of the game press, means that the gamer needs some kind of protection.

The "scene" offers this kind of protection. It gives you the choice of trying before you buy, and of opting to pay for the actual value of the content. If a game isn't worth 60$, just wait until it hits 30 or 20...

The thing is, this kind of thing needs some kind of ethics and matureness. Plenty of really good companies have closed because not enough gamers supported their efforts, and this is a shame. With great power, comes great responsibility, says Spiderman, and i tend to agree... With the power to pirate, also comes the need to be responsible and still pay to support those devs that actually tried to entertain you fairly...

So, in the end, piracy is not right and is not wrong. The real question should be: Do you support the hardworking devs, or not?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 15, 2015)

TemplarGR said:


> With great power, comes great responsibility, says Spiderman, and i tend to agree...


 
Actually, Uncle Ben said that


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 15, 2015)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Actually, Uncle Ben said that


... And he died. See the problem here?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 15, 2015)

Mchief298 said:


> ... And he died. See the problem here?


 
Noooooooooo? *promptly gets shot in the head*


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## Hungry Friend (Apr 16, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Want my take on the situation? I don't care about games that companies no longer generate profit from and therefore as such, I download old school games anywhere from Snes to Gamecube. There I said it.  Also, if I own the game, I make backups of it so I don't have to buy a new copy.


 
That's pretty much my view as well. This is Yuber from the ZSNES forums(what's up dude) but yeah, downloading abandonware hurts nobody and emulation is the only thing keeping games like Seiken Densetsu 3 and Mother 3 alive/known outside of Japan. Games are art and they need to be preserved, but I'm also not gonna pretend to be some honorable game historian who only downloads games for the sake of preservation, lol. I like emulating games and I don't really give a shit if people object to it because emulation(and burning Dreamcast games in the past) has allowed me to play games that I never even knew about before, especially Japan-only games with awesome fan translations. Without MAME and other arcade emus, many old arcade games would have been completely lost, plus emulating arcade games that I dreamed of owning as a kid just kicks ass.


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## the_randomizer (Apr 16, 2015)

Hungry Friend said:


> That's pretty much my view as well. This is Yuber from the ZSNES forums(what's up dude) but yeah, downloading abandonware hurts nobody and emulation is the only thing keeping games like Seiken Densetsu 3 and Mother 3 alive/known outside of Japan. Games are art and they need to be preserved, but I'm also not gonna pretend to be some honorable game historian who only downloads games for the sake of preservation, lol. I like emulating games and I don't really give a shit if people object to it because emulation(and burning Dreamcast games in the past) has allowed me to play games that I never even knew about before, especially Japan-only games with awesome fan translations. Without MAME and other arcade emus, many old arcade games would have been completely lost, plus emulating arcade games that I dreamed of owning as a kid just kicks ass.


 

Oh hey there, glad to see you joined the Temp  Yeah, I mean, for old software, or abandonware, I see no moral dilemma seeing as no revenue is generated, much less given to the companies who made them. Many companies have gone defunct, including Argonaut Software (the people who made the Super FX/FX-2 chips, Irem, etc to name a few. Sure, Nintendo has their eShop/VC service, but they don't have all the games we truly want on there and the Wii U catalog is paltry at best.  So, yeah, old ROMs, no one makes money off of them save secondhand retailers, but so do used games, right? To some, there's no difference, and to me, I don't care.


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## The Catboy (Apr 16, 2015)

I used to be ok with it, but then Cing went under due to piracy and I flipped my opinion on it. Seeing one of my personal favorite companies go under because of piracy has made me realize that there can be real damages thanks to it. So I am against piracy because I see that it can cause real damages.


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## the_randomizer (Apr 16, 2015)

Addendum: Piracy of games that are being actively sold can have a severely adverse affect on companies' profits, whether they go under or not, it can still very much do damage. For games that don't give any party money, there is no real loss in revenue at all.  Summary, old games that make nothing and are hard to get, yes, for new, actively produced and sold games. no.


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## CitizenSnips (Apr 16, 2015)

my opinion is it isn't wrong if you weren't going to buy the game anyways because they aren't getting money they weren't going to get in the first place


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## Dork (Apr 16, 2015)

Piracy is a loss of a potential sale, so it's not good.

But I pirate anyway because I don't care.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 16, 2015)

CitizenSnips said:


> my opinion is it isn't wrong if you weren't going to buy the game anyways because they aren't getting money they weren't going to get in the first place


 
But how can you justify pirating a game if you weren't going to buy it? If it's worth your attention, you may as well buy it to support the company. If you don't like it after you've bought it, make sure you've kept the receipt and just return it to the store. That argument is one that has never made sense to me, because that's pretty much like day after day stealing a sandwich and justifying it because you weren't going to pay for it; if it's good enough that you keep coming back for it, it damn well better be good enough to pay for


Dork said:


> Piracy is a loss of a potential sale, so it's not good.
> 
> But I pirate anyway because I don't care.


Well... You're honest, I'll give you that


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## XDel (Apr 16, 2015)

I am 40 years old, I and my friends have been pirating for years. When 8-track record ables came out, people ran out and bought them and everyone had boot leg albums in their 8-track cases.
A few short years later, we got 16-track which released as record able and we were happier! Along with this also came Beta and VHS which again were released as record able, and again we thanked the corporations for putting this power into our hands, and though they warned us not to violate copyright, they continued on selling without issue and were happy with their profits, hence the reason you can still buy all of these but Beta and 8-track, in stores today.
The trick is though that in 1985 Macrovision was created to prevent the duplication of commercial VHS tapes, though this didn't begin to be included in about every VCR until around 1987. Thing was though that Macrovision is easy to bypass with signal enhancers and scramblers.
Skipping over the amazing Laser Discs along with BBS history, we go on to CD-R and eventually DVD-R, which were released some years after their read only counter part, though for what reason I am not sure.
Once these were released, everyone began making boot legs of audio CD's, and eventually, thanks to DVD Decrpyter and the like, of DVD's as well. During this time the Internet was just starting to hit middle America, though it was not worth pirating on as dial up was horrible slow (like wi-fi can be), unless you had access to a College lab or something.
It was not until the turn of the century when Cable Internet and the like really began to catch on, and during all this time prior there was little to no talk about the threat that piracy has upon the industry. No major reports done by companies, the government, etc. Though during this time Disney did change the rules on Public Domain, and somehow managed to make it so corporations such as them selves could buy things out of Public Domain and capitalize off of it, just like with the song Happy Birthday, though I don't believe I should have to spell out the evils of the "Corporate Person" vs the Flesh and Blood Person as it should all be obvious. Not to knock on capitalism on a whole, just what it's become. Capitalistic/Socialist/Communist Technocracy something or other. 

On that note, back during the Dreamcast days, Sega put out a letter stating that Piracy really has not hurt their sales, nor was it the cause of the Dreamcast's low sale. In fact they said it worked more as free promotion for their product. The old owners of Sega were really lax on the subject, just like certain Government reports I have read, even from a few years back.
With this in mind, and the long standing history of piracy, and the fact that we have ALWAYS had a means to buy thing used such as at thrift stores, garage sales, pawn shops etc. We have always had the ability to watch a movie without buying at a friend's house, or via rental, borrowing, or library loan for that matter.
On top of that if there is or was anything we wanted to pirate, we could always inter-library loan and duplicate anything we rented.
The only thing that has been moderately controlled well in this domain is video game piracy as most people don't know how to hack consoles let alone know where to go to get games. Amazingly enough, most people don't know how to do much beyond download MP3's on their computer if that. And most of the easy ways are plagued with adware so a plagued computer results in slower downloads, slower computer speed, and therefore impact the speed at which they can pirate and therefore amount.

I could go on, but if you think about it, it is not a threat, never has been, it is merely about control and profit. Trust me, men and women in high places will always fighter harder to preserve their own piece of the pie, than they will to preserve the American Dream, or any more than they tried to preserve the ways and history of those who were here before them. People are out there without food, shelter, natural free resources, or even access to natural free resources to shelter them selves should they find them selves hopeless within the system some day. Everything is privatized and the rope is getting tighter, and they have the nerve to pretend that it is they who are the victims, the poor poor power elite.


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## CitizenSnips (Apr 16, 2015)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> But how can you justify pirating a game if you weren't going to buy it? If it's worth your attention, you may as well buy it to support the company. If you don't like it after you've bought it, make sure you've kept the receipt and just return it to the store. That argument is one that has never made sense to me, because that's pretty much like day after day stealing a sandwich and justifying it because you weren't going to pay for it; if it's good enough that you keep coming back for it, it damn well better be good enough to pay for
> Well... You're honest, I'll give you that


 
i wasn't saying it was morally correct, i was just saying that in my eyes it doesn't really harm the companies that much if i wasn't going to buy it


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 16, 2015)

CitizenSnips said:


> i wasn't saying it was morally correct, i was just saying that in my eyes it doesn't really harm the companies that much if i wasn't going to buy it


But the point is that you have it in your possession, and because you are keeping a game that you have absolutely no license to have you are draining upon the sales of said game, no matter what point of view you look at it from


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## tbb043 (Apr 16, 2015)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I used to be ok with it, but then Cing went under due to piracy



Looking at the list of games they put out, looks more likely they went under due to mostly putting out niche titles that would have been hard to sell enough copies of to stay afloat no matter what people were or weren't doing to obtain the games without paying. You liked them, sure, a lot of people liked them I bet. But not relative to the size of the market they were competing in.


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## The Catboy (Apr 17, 2015)

tbb043 said:


> Looking at the list of games they put out, looks more likely they went under due to mostly putting out niche titles that would have been hard to sell enough copies of to stay afloat no matter what people were or weren't doing to obtain the games without paying. You liked them, sure, a lot of people liked them I bet. But not relative to the size of the market they were competing in.


 
You see, that is true. At the same time, piracy still didn't help them stay afloat. I was actually able to find their games at stores like Wal*Mart, which means there was a demand for them in some form or at least enough to draw the attention of major retailers. Then after flashcards started becoming more common and cheaper, demand started to drop for them. Maybe it was a mix of bad marketing moves on their end, but piracy still didn't help them out.


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## BerserkLeon (Apr 17, 2015)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> You see, that is true. At the same time, piracy still didn't help them stay afloat. I was actually able to find their games at stores like Wal*Mart, which means there was a demand for them in some form or at least enough to draw the attention of major retailers. Then after flashcards started becoming more common and cheaper, demand started to drop for them. Maybe it was a mix of bad marketing moves on their end, but piracy still didn't help them out.


 
Piracy may not've helped them out_ enough_, but it generally is free advertising, with the 'responsible pirates' that enjoy the game enough and have disposable income, buying the game and/or telling their friends about it. This can be true even of pirates in regions where games cost astronomical sums - perhaps they know someone in the US or EU, JP, or AU online that might enjoy the game. They can spread the word.
The issue I think here is that there wasn't much demand for these games. Hardly anyone had heard of the dev, there wasn't much if any advertising, and a lot of people probably saw the cases and thought the game looked uninteresting based on the cover.
DS/PSP may've been a bit of an exception, but the general thing with piracy is that it's usually only 10% or so of the total users of the hardware. Let's be generous and say for DS it was more like 25%, since it was dead-simple to grab a flashcart and go. Maybe 5% of the total userbase knew of Cing, so I'd guess 5% or less of the pirates knew of them. And I imagine maybe 1/3 of that 5% of that 25% were responsible pirates and bought the games after discovering they liked it.
We're getting into very small numbers now. and these are all just numbers I'm pulling out of my butt but they are educated guesses.
Anyway it all boils down to them being a small developer, making games that not that many people will play, that aren't getting properly advertised or really making rounds with popular review/preview sites/blogs/magazines. Maybe they were even the type of games that the end-user would enjoy, but they'd figure their friends wouldn't be into it...
It's not surprising that they flopped but blaming piracy for it is rather short-sighted. 



TotalInsanity4 said:


> But the point is that you have it in your possession, and because you are keeping a game that you have absolutely no license to have you are draining upon the sales of said game, no matter what point of view you look at it from


 
Mm... no. Not really. How do you not understand that if a pirate wouldn't have bought it anyway, be it because they don't have the money or because they don't enjoy it, they're not really hurting sales. Let me put it this way - It's called a sale because you buy the game.
If user has money to buy game and does, that's +1 sale. If user cannot or will not buy game because reasons, it's not -1 sale. They're not missing the sale because they wouldn't have got it to begin with. I might download a game, find out it's crap, and delete it. They're not missing my sale because I wouldn't buy it in the first place. I'm not going to make an uninformed decision to buy a game. Let's say... I won't buy games. No one is missing a game sale from me because I pirate everything. I would not buy a single game ever, so they're not missing the sale because I would fundamentally not buy games.
The only case where they might actually be missing a sale is if the pirate has disposable income, enjoys the game thoroughly, but will still not buy the game. That's called the pirate doesn't understand economics or they think the company whose game they're pirating is huge enough that it won't matter.
Your analogy is incorrect btw, you can't make a copy of a sandwich appear out of thin air. Copying is not theft. 


As for me, I pirate when the media is a generation or more old. I pirate when I can't afford to buy it. I pirate when I know the company is going to get huge sales regardless of whether I pirate or not.
If it's a game that doesn't sell many units, I might pirate it, but If I enjoy it and I know it won't sell much, I'll buy it at some point. For example, The Atelier Series. It keeps getting localized, I started out by pirating Ayesha.. now I own Ayesha Escha and Shallie Digitally. I'll be buying rorona+, totori, and meruru soon.
Let's say.. An Eminem Album, a pokemon game, Assassin's creed or CoD (not that I'm into all those) I'd be fine with pirating them. Huge sales.
If a company does something stupid, like releasing a game, then releasing a new edition of said game a year or two down the road, and I bought the first one? I'd pirate the crap out of that (I'm looking at you Dark souls II).
If the game's a bug-filled mess, I might buy it when they fix it, but not until then.
small artist/dev/movie maker, that I enjoy? Pretty much a guaranteed buy.
Importing games? lol no. I'm not gonna waste cash to play a game in moon runes that the company thought not enough US people would want. I've got copies of a few gundam games because of this. But that's not true with music.. I've got a few imported Albums from Japan. Not sure why that is.
Haven't bought any japan-only anime or manga yet, though.


----------



## FAST6191 (Apr 17, 2015)

BerserkLeon said:
			
		

> Let's be generous and say for DS it was more like 25%, since it was dead-simple to grab a flashcart and go. Maybe 5% of the total userbase knew of Cing, so I'd guess 5% or less of the pirates knew of them. And I imagine maybe 1/3 of that 5% of that 25% were responsible pirates and bought the games after discovering they liked it.



I am not sure your model works -- raw numbers might be one thing but demographics and such like count for a lot more (drop all the homophobic 12 year olds from COD and you will see a bigger player number drop than if you dropped all the grandmothers, despite being represented about as well in the population at large).


As for the subject of the OP we have done this basically every month since forever.


----------



## Hungry Friend (Apr 17, 2015)

The only thing I feel guilty about are all the DC games I burned back in 2000-01, but if, say, CVS2 & Guilty Gear X had come out on the US DC I would've bought them instead of burning them.(DC version of CVS2 is obviously closest to the arcade) Otherwise, I don't feel bad about emulating games and I'd say the industry's crappy DLC/microtrans scams are hurting gaming much more than piracy but I don't even download newer games because my PC is ancient.

I think much of what the big publishers say about piracy(and used games for that matter) is exaggerated hyperbole that they use as an excuse to justify their shitty business practices.


----------



## netovsk (Apr 17, 2015)

I think sony nintendo and microsoft are poor and almost broke because people are stealing them people should be hanged for piracy it's too cruel a crime.


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 17, 2015)

netovsk said:


> I think sony nintendo and microsoft are poor and almost broke because people are stealing them people should be hanged for piracy it's too cruel a crime.


 
Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.... _Poor???_
_*??????????????????*_


----------



## Smuff (Apr 17, 2015)

"You wouldn't steal a car......." - I fucking would if I could download it from the comfort of my own living room.


----------



## FAST6191 (Apr 17, 2015)

Smuff said:


> "You wouldn't steal a car......." - I fucking would if I could download it from the comfort of my own living room.



Give it a couple of years


Anyway I have already stolen money from the starving mouths of car companies by fabricating replacement parts for their goods, and helped others do the same.


----------



## smf (Apr 17, 2015)

Cherry Pie said:


> Piracy is not theft because theft removes the original and piracy makes a copy.


 
Morally piracy is theft of the profit of a sale that should have occurred for you to get the enjoyment out of it. Whether you would buy the game or not if you couldn't pirate it, doesn't make any difference.

Legally there is some debate over whether the word theft is correct here because copyright law doesn't use the word theft, laws tend to be written in words that people don't use everyday.

However the FBI and NCPC do use the word theft

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/white_collar/ipr/ipr

*It’s an age-old crime: stealing.*
But it’s not about picking a pocket or holding up a bank. It’s robbing people of their ideas, inventions, and creative expressions—what’s called intellectual property—everything from trade secrets and proprietary products and parts to movies and music and software.

http://www.ncpc.org/topics/intellectual-property-theft

"Stealing intellectual property is cheap and easy. All a thief has to do is copy someone else’s ideas or product."

Making the whole debate about whether copyright is theft an exercise in nit picking, like arguing whether a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable (most people don't realise it's possible to be both).

Whether copyright is theft or not is not relevant to your opinion of piracy & your opinion of piracy isn't relevant to whether you infringe copyright. The people who try to justify piracy (either legally or morally) are the worst, they want it all. They are just lying to themselves and hoping to persuade enough people to join them in their mass delusion.

Piracy is like speeding. Not everyone does it and those that do don't always get caught. If anything you do ever gets bad enough that someone notices then you'll get a nice new shower buddy called Bubba.


----------



## netovsk (Apr 17, 2015)

"Morally piracy is theft of the profit of a sale that should have occurred for you to get the enjoyment out of it."

For that to be true you should be able to prove one is willing to pay full price if copying wasn't an option.

If business fails because of people making unauthorized copies for personal use it's because the business model is wrong or outdated and they should find a better way to serve. Take netflix for instance.


----------



## PagaN (Apr 17, 2015)

Piracy is great


----------



## smf (Apr 17, 2015)

netovsk said:


> For that to be true you should be able to prove one is willing to pay full price if copying wasn't an option.


 
Invent a time machine so that we can run every situation through both scenarios and you could do that. However there is proof out there that people do buy games at full price when copying isn't available. You can tell by looking at sales figures for games at the time the consoles are hacked. Dreamcast, Wii & PS3 are good examples because you don't need to actually buy anything to play pirated games. I agree that not everyone will have bought a game. But with speeding not everyone will kill someone in an accident, but everyone is punished because they took the risk that they could. Therefore it is fair to punish someone who has downloaded ten games but would only have ever bought five of them as if they have stolen ten games.



netovsk said:


> If business fails because of people making unauthorized copies for personal use it's because the business model is wrong or outdated and they should find a better way to serve. Take netflix for instance.


 
The people who are actually buying games said they would stop if consoles moved to a rental model like Netflix. It's unlikely they'll alienate the people who are keeping them in business on some pseudo argument from people who are already "stealing" from them. Netflix hasn't noticeably reduced piracy of tv shows or movies, maybe their business model is outdated?


----------



## Hungry Friend (Apr 17, 2015)

It's _technically_ stealing but cmon, downloading abandoned or Japan-only games from the 80s and 90s isn't hurting anyone and quite frankly emulation gives companies a lot of exposure due to things like LPs. Would Seiken Densetsu 3 be as popular as it is without emulation and fan translations? Fuck no, and one could argue that pirating/emulating old games is actually beneficial in some ways because LPs and such are free advertising most of the time. It's a win/win situation; I get to play kickass old games for free and the people that made said games become more popular as a result of emulation and ROMs being extremely popular. Arguable yes, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

Also I'd rather emulate a rare ass game than spend hundreds of $ on the second hand market. Playing a game on real HW is always preferable but most of us don't shit money. Playing Xmen VS SF on my PC will never stop being awesome, btw. Only legal way to play a good version of it is to buy a Saturn, an action replay/other 4MB RAM cart and an expensive used copy of the game. I'd much rather play it on MAME with a Saturn controller using an adapter for free.(well, minus the Saturn pad)


----------



## smf (Apr 17, 2015)

Hungry Friend said:


> It's _technically_ stealing but cmon, downloading abandoned or Japan-only games from the 80s and 90s isn't hurting anyone and quite frankly emulation gives companies a lot of exposure due to things like LPs. Would Seiken Densetsu 3 be as popular as it is without emulation and fan translations?


 
You can't determine whether it is hurting someone. If you're sitting playing PS1 games you downloaded then you're less likely to be buying PS4 games, because you have a finite amount of time to do it. Therefore you have to assume that in some cases you are hurting someone. If the copyright owner gives you permission then they are taking on the responsibility for that.

I can't answer whether Seiken Densetsu 3 would be as popular without a way to run both scenarios. What you seem to propose is that two wrongs make a right (one wrong is the legal issue of you pirating the game, the other wrong is a moral issue with the developer condemning/prosecuting customers who stole one of their products even though they only bought a later product because of it).



Hungry Friend said:


> Also I'd rather emulate a rare ass game than spend hundreds of $ on the second hand market. Playing a game on real HW is always preferable but most of us don't shit money. Playing Xmen VS SF on my PC will never stop being awesome, btw.


 
That is at least an honest reason for piracy, essentially "I want something but I don't want to pay for it".



Hungry Friend said:


> Only legal way to play a good version of it is to buy a Saturn, an action replay/other 4MB RAM cart and an expensive used copy of the game. I'd much rather play it on MAME with a Saturn controller using an adapter.


 
AFAIK you can legally buy the original arcade version. At one time you could even go to a room that had lots of games and just put a small amount of money in to play them, but that model became outdated because people wanted to pay once and not be limited to when they could play it.

Console game prices haven't risen as fast as inflation and piracy affects budget games too. A lot of people would steal a car if they thought they wouldn't get caught and it was ok because other people do it. To get to that point you start out with something small and easily "justifiable" to yourself until you become desensitized enough.


----------



## GhostLatte (Apr 17, 2015)

smf said:


> Anything you do ever gets bad enough that someone notices then you'll get a nice new shower buddy called Bubba.


You must have some experience.


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 17, 2015)

Fuck paying inflated prices for games that are out of print and don't give companies money, I always say. Oh no, some scalper on eBay doesn't get his $400 for a mint condition copy of Earthbound, and the guy on Amazon doesn't get his $200 for a mint condition copy of a gold NES cart. Boo hoo.

No longer in print, no lost sales.


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## driverdis (Apr 17, 2015)

when I hear people describe piracy as theft, I think of this picture.








smf said:


> You can't determine whether it is hurting someone. If you're sitting playing PS1 games you downloaded then you're less likely to be buying PS4 games, because you have a finite amount of time to do it. Therefore you have to assume that in some cases you are hurting someone.


 
And how about how I buy and play used PS1 games from video game stores and eBay rather than buying PS4 games, does that mean I am as bad as a pirate?


----------



## GhostLatte (Apr 17, 2015)

driverdis said:


> when I hear people describe piracy as theft, I think of this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly


----------



## Smuff (Apr 17, 2015)

smf said:


> *Morally piracy is theft of the profit of a sale that should have occurred for you to get the enjoyment out of it.*


 
I love this line of argument......

Ever borrowed a book from a friend ?

A DVD / Bluray ?

Listened to a CD with friends ?

Read someone else's copy of a newspaper/magazine ?

etc etc etc 

"Come on everybody, following the dancing bear to Guantanomo! Keep up at the back there, Granny and Gramps!"


----------



## RevPokemon (Apr 17, 2015)

Smuff said:


> I prefer to think of it as "Try-before-you-buy" and I'm not done trying just quite yet


 
Nothing is wrong is wrong with that. I mean that's how i did with multiple things but eventually buy



Smuff said:


> I love this line of argument......
> 
> Ever borrowed a book from a friend ?
> 
> ...


Borrowed a car from a friend?

Sugar for a cake?

A tool for yard work?


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.... _Poor???_
> _*??????????????????*_


 
To be fair, Sony is going bankrupt. The other two, though... Yeh, they're pretty set


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Fuck paying inflated prices for games that are out of print and don't give companies money, I always say. Oh no, some scalper on eBay doesn't get his $400 for a mint condition copy of Earthbound, and the guy on Amazon doesn't get his $200 for a mint condition copy of a gold NES cart. Boo hoo.
> 
> No longer in print, no lost sales.


 
I'd buy a $400 EarthBound cart if I had the money tbh


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## the_randomizer (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I'd buy a $400 EarthBound cart if I had the money tbh


 

$400 for that game is not worth it to be honest. $50 tops, eight times that is nucking futs


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> To be fair, Sony is going bankrupt. The other two, though... Yeh, they're pretty set


 
I didn't know about Sony going bankrupt?
I guess that's good to know. I'll try to buy more from them. Sony is one of my immediate family's favorite gaming companies, right under Nintendo.


----------



## RevPokemon (Apr 18, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> $400 for that game is not worth it to be honest. $50 tops, eight times that is nucking futs


Tbh its probably one of the over priced (note I'd did not say overrated) games. I mean its nice w on eshop and via emu(which a potato can run)


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## the_randomizer (Apr 18, 2015)

RevPokemon said:


> Tbh its probably one of the over priced (note I'd did not say overrated) games. I mean its nice w on eshop and via emu(which a potato can run)


 

Nine dollars is sure as hell better than 40 or 400 dollars


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## RevPokemon (Apr 18, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Nine dollars is sure as hell better than 40 or 400 dollars


Then again if you get the extras like the box and sticker then I see the value tho


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

(for some odd reason i can't quote anyone)
But, man, if I had money to waste...


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## RevPokemon (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> (for some odd reason i can't quote anyone)
> But, man, if I had money to waste...


If I had the money I'd buy a Mercedes


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## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

RevPokemon said:


> If I had the money I'd buy a Mercedes


 
I can't drive lmao


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## RevPokemon (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I can't drive lmao


I can't yet but if I had the money my Butler would drove me


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## SammyPoke (Apr 18, 2015)

Who honestly buys a retro game that's out of stock? Honestly, unless I see it at a local yard-sale, or it becomes purchasable through E-Shop/PSN/XB-LIVE I honestly don't see anything wrong with getting it online.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I didn't know about Sony going bankrupt?
> I guess that's good to know. I'll try to buy more from them. Sony is one of my immediate family's favorite gaming companies, right under Nintendo.


 
Yeah, their games division is basically their life preserver (as the PlayStation line is doing more than ok), but their hardware/film division is leaking money uncontrollably


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## RevPokemon (Apr 18, 2015)

SammyPoke said:


> Who honestly buys a retro game that's out of stock? Honestly, unless I see it at a local yard-sale, or it becomes purchasable through E-Shop/PSN/XB-LIVE I honestly don't see anything wrong with getting it online.


Or may I add if it emulates well (like saturn
Games that emu like shit)


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

SammyPoke said:


> Who honestly buys a retro game that's out of stock? Honestly, unless I see it at a local yard-sale, or it becomes purchasable through E-Shop/PSN/XB-LIVE I honestly don't see anything wrong with getting it online.


 
I would if it were something like Vib-Ribbon, PaRappa the Rapper or EarthBound.



RevPokemon said:


> Or may I add if it emulates well (like saturn
> Games that emu like shit)


 
I can't emulate PSX games on my computer.
I even have issues with SNES games at times.


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## RevPokemon (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I can't emulate PSX games on my computer.
> I even have issues with SNES games at times.


What are the specs?


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

RevPokemon said:


> What are the specs?


 


Spoiler



ProcessorIntel(R) Core(TM) i5-3210M CPU @ 2.50GHz
ManufacturerIntel
Speed2.5 GHz
Number of Cores4
CPU IDBFEBFBFF000306A9
Family06
Model3A
Stepping9
Revision
Video CardIntel(R) HD Graphics 4000
ManufacturerIntel
ChipsetIntel(R) HD Graphics 4000
Dedicated Memory128 MB
Total Memory1.8 GB
Pixel Shader Version5.0
Vertex Shader Version5.0
Hardware T & LYes
Vendor ID8086
Device ID0166
Plug and Play IDVEN_8086&DEV_0166&SUBSYS_064B1025&REV_09
Driver Version10.18.10.3958
Memory8.0 GB
Operating SystemMicrosoft Windows 8 (build 9200), 64-bit
Service Pack0
Size64 Bit
EditionBasic
Version6.2.9200
Locale0411
BIOSInsydeH2O Version 03.72.23V2.03
VersionAcer V2.03
ManufacturerAcer
Date09/07/12
Display Maximum Resolution1366 x 768
Sound Device 1High Definition Audio Device
Driver Version6.2.9200.16653
Sound Device 2High Definition Audio Device
Driver Version6.2.9200.16653
DVDMATSHITA DVD-RAM UJ8C0 ATA Device
CDMATSHITA DVD-RAM UJ8C0 ATA Device
Drive
Size931.2 GB
Free597.0 GB
Browsers
Internet Explorer11.0.9600.17690
Chrome41.0.2272.89
Firefox
Safari
Software
Java
Flash15.0.0.189
DirectX11.0
.NET3.5.30729.4926
QuickTime
Adobe PDF Reader


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Then something's seriously jacked up as those specs are more than plenty for Snes and PSX emulation. Which emulators, plugins, versions, etc?


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 18, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Then something's seriously jacked up as those specs are more than plenty for Snes and PSX emulation. Which emulators, plugins, versions, etc?


 
ePSXe I think
ZSNES
both latest, and I don't know what the plugins are.
It's partially because my computer is slow af sometimes


----------



## SammyPoke (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hmmm, that's strange, I had a computer a while back (4 years or so) that had much worse specs than this and it was able to run PSX emu. games as well as SNES and GBA games without any-problems. Heck, I think the only thing it struggled with was GameCube games. It must be the plugins or another hardware installed.


----------



## the_randomizer (Apr 18, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> ePSXe I think
> ZSNES
> both latest, and I don't know what the plugins are.
> It's partially because my computer is slow af sometimes


 


Eww, Zsnes? That thing hasn't been updated since 2006, you're better off with the latest Snes9x test build  Zsnes 2.0 is in development, but won't be out for some time, Snes9x is still very fast and pretty accurate, you can run that on old machines. I'm sorry, but Zsnes.....ugh. You deserve better.


----------



## Hungry Friend (Apr 18, 2015)

epsxe can be a huge bitch to set up, namely the D3D & OpenGL2 plugins because you need to set them up just right to get them to run properly if you have a slow computer. Randomizer's right though; your computer should run SNES and PS1 games without a problem, but epsxe takes a lot of trial and error to set up, and even when you get it set up properly for one game you sometimes have to fuck with the settings again on a game-to-game basis.

Also, my main point about piracy is that while it is technically stealing, I don't feel bad about it at all other than the DC games I burned when the DC was still alive. It's not that I'm justifying downloading ROMs/ISOs, I just don't care and I'd rather not pay thousands of $ for old games when I could play them on my PC. Also CPS2 arcade boards are not cheap and you have to worry about shit like battery replacement and all that crap. Emulating it on MAME, or buying the Saturn version are the only options I would consider for playing CPS2 games.(xmvsf in this case)

I also own the vast majority of the PS1 games I emulate and usually use emulated copies as backups, plus playing them in high resolution in epsxe is pretty awesome. If I can find a used version of a game I want at a *reasonable* price, I'll but it but if it's expensive as shit, fuck that I'm downloading it. Emulation, other than being awesome, has the added, unintentional benefit of preserving lots of unknown games like I said before. I'll end my ramble here but in short I sleep fine at night despite using emulators since 1998.


----------



## iamlegend666 (Apr 24, 2015)

its bad mmmmk


----------



## Chris_Highwind (Apr 24, 2015)

To be honest, given the choice between buying something or pirating it, I'd choose to buy it, because if you don't know where to look, pirating could lead you into some dangerous areas and you could end up wasting your time downloading what you think is the item you want only to find it's a fake, malware, attempt at filling your inbox with spam, or etc. And most respectable places such as this don't allow its users to help others find pirated software beyond maybe "Google it". If you pay money for it, there's a greater chance you'll get what you're looking for quickly. However, considering my money is strictly managed by another party, I am more often than not reduced to piracy in order to keep up with the games everyone's currently talking about.


----------



## Yepi69 (Apr 24, 2015)

OH boy, this thread again.


----------



## CosmoCortney (Apr 25, 2015)

I don't like piracy in general. But I think it's fine if games/films/songs can't be bought in shops anymore (gamecube/N64 games for example) or are difficult to get. Same opinion if a game is not available in your region 
Also when the producer does not seem to be making money of it anymore. I don't think that piracy in these cases would hurt anyone..


----------



## smf (Apr 28, 2015)

driverdis said:


> And how about how I buy and play used PS1 games from video game stores and eBay rather than buying PS4 games, does that mean I am as bad as a pirate?


 
In the eyes of the software companies you probably are, but legally there is nothing wrong with that.



Cherry Pie said:


> You must have some experience.


 
I read about it on your blog.


----------



## GhostLatte (Apr 28, 2015)

smf said:


> I read about it on your blog.


 
I don't have a blog.


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## Hungry Friend (Apr 28, 2015)

Publishers often use things like used games and piracy to justify shitty business practices like DLC scams & microtransactions. They always overblow the problem although piracy of new games is obviously an issue. I really just download NES-PS1 games and if I can find a game at a reasonable price and have the HW to play it, I'll buy rather than emulate. Without EVIL piracy though, I would've never played Seiken Densetsu 3, Mother 3 and countless other JP-only games as well as old arcade games. MAME is the closest you can get to owning your own arcade without, well, buying a shit ton of arcade games. Admittedly, the only reason I'm not downloading PS2, GC and Wii games is because my PC is outdated and doesn't run them at good/consistent speeds. Real HW is always better, but I don't shit $


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## the_randomizer (Apr 28, 2015)

iamlegend666 said:


> its bad mmmmk


 

Only for the games that don't give any companies money


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 29, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Only for the games that don't give any companies money


 
And that's where the debate lies


----------



## smf (Apr 30, 2015)

Cherry Pie said:


> I don't have a blog.


 
Yeah I can see you've deleted it now.


----------



## Gameboyandwatch (May 31, 2016)

RevPokemon said:


> There are a lot of posts on this and varying opinions.
> 
> Myself I believe that media should be free and available to everyone so it can be enjoyed by all people regardless of their financial status or ability to buy it. Knowledge to the people is power and removing said knowledge via censorship and laws is weakening said knowledge towards the people...


If the producers of said media can't profit, then there would be no reason for them to create more media. Thus ending whatever industry that decided to be free.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

ANYWAYS, I don't think piracy is as big as a deal as people make it out to be. Emulating Battletoads, a 30 year old game won't ruin the game industry. The company that produced it is no longer profitting from it. And some people say it's theft, but it's really not  hurting anything.


----------



## Davidosky99 (May 31, 2016)

My opinion on piracy?
I think it's one of the best things happened to me. It's easy accessible and most off all _*free .*_ It's just so damn easy I go to a top 100 games of 201x and download them all.
I'm intro retro too, I have too every nes SNES n64 ROMs as well as some GC and Wii isos. And I'm close to reaching the CIA limit on my 3ds so, I could say I have a positive opinion on piracy 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

And no I don't think its immoral or something . triple A companies should die. They are just leechs and they are greedy AF. I might still like Nintendo because of the nostalgia factor but that doesn't stop me from pirating it. Sure I might open an exception for Indies and extraordinaire games(the ones on my signature (for PC)) were all paid but the rest was pirated without remorse


----------



## cooroxd (May 31, 2016)

I like showing off my modded 3ds with 100+ games to my friends and people at anime conventions because I like being an asshole( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## Gameboyandwatch (May 31, 2016)

cooroxd said:


> I like showing off my modded 3ds with 100+ games to my friends and people at anime conventions because I like being an asshole( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


I get a lot of crap from my friend for emulating. He even threatened to call Nintendo once. Although I doubt Nintendo would do anything.


----------



## Davidosky99 (May 31, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> I get a lot of crap from my friend for emulating. He even threatened to call Nintendo once. Although I doubt Nintendo would do anything.


just ignore them, nintendo only deals with major things, not an individual having in his PC some ROMS...


----------



## Nyap (May 31, 2016)

I've heard a few people in this thread say that pirating retro games doesn't hurt anyone, but don't companies try to make money off of old games? that would hurt their profits (virtual console etc)


----------



## Davidosky99 (May 31, 2016)

Nyap said:


> I've heard a few people in this thread say that pirating retro games doesn't hurt anyone, but don't companies try to make money off of old games? that would hurt their profits (virtual console etc)


https://ap.nintendo.com/
quite a cringy read but nintendo actually says it hurts them


----------



## Nyap (May 31, 2016)

Davidosky99 said:


> https://ap.nintendo.com/
> quite a cringy read but nintendo actually says it hurts them


lol nintendo is racist to asians


> Carefully consider whether to purchase from Asian websites offering large quantities of Nintendo products at low prices.


because other countries are incapable of making fakes and things like that (cough cough china cough cough)


----------



## Gameboyandwatch (May 31, 2016)

Davidosky99 said:


> just ignore them, nintendo only deals with major things, not an individual having in his PC some ROMS...


"some roms"

That doesn't even start it. I have like 100 wii isos, and probably 1,000+ nes/gb/gbc/gba roms 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Davidosky99 said:


> just ignore them, nintendo only deals with major things, not an individual having in his PC some ROMS...


Also, what would happen if he called the police and said I emulate?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

excuse me, *HAD 100 wii isos, until my e-hdd corrupted.


----------



## Davidosky99 (May 31, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> "some roms"
> 
> That doesn't even start it. I have like 100 wii isos, and probably 1,000+ nes/gb/gbc/gba roms


you aren't even close to me. I have the entire nes, snes, n64 gb, gba and gbc(EUR) and some wii and gc isos, as well as 120+ cias distributed in 2 HDD's
And I'm not even close to afraid 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Gameboyandwatch said:


> "some roms"
> 
> That doesn't even start it. I have like 100 wii isos, and probably 1,000+ nes/gb/gbc/gba roms
> 
> ...


nothing, they would do nothing, because it's not worth to nintendo to sue an individual for just emulating roms


----------



## Gameboyandwatch (May 31, 2016)

Davidosky99 said:


> you aren't even close to me. I have the entire nes, snes, n64 gb, gba and gbc(EUR) and some wii and gc isos, as well as 120+ cias distributed in 2 HDD's
> And I'm not even close to afraid


What would happen if he told the cops I emulate? I usually stay hush hush about that because he said he'd block me on skype if I kept emulating.


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## DinohScene (May 31, 2016)

I still stand by me point.
Anyone that doesn't know shit about patching/hacking etc shouldn't pirate.
Then again, it's a bad habit.


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## Gameboyandwatch (May 31, 2016)

DinohScene said:


> I still stand by me point.
> Anyone that doesn't know shit about patching/hacking etc shouldn't pirate.
> Then again, it's a bad habit.


ITS HARD TO STOP PIRATING


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## Davidosky99 (May 31, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> ITS HARD TO STOP PIRATING


it's only the best thing ever. 


Gameboyandwatch said:


> What would happen if he told the cops I emulate? I usually stay hush hush about that because he said he'd block me on skype if I kept emulating.


lol just ignore him, he's a bad "friend" and IF he told the cops either them would think that the kid was insane, they woudn't give a shit or in the worst case if they took the bait, just hard delete the files(delete overwriting them(with special software)). But don't worry, your friend is probabily just a jackass that just wants to mess with you


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## guisadop (May 31, 2016)

I don't think it's right and that everybody should do so, but the developers loses almost nothing when people pirate, cause most people who pirate probably wouldn't buy or be able to afford the product anyways. It's good to buy stuff though.


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## Redhorse (May 31, 2016)

RevPokemon said:


> There are a lot of posts on this and varying opinions.
> 
> Myself I believe that media should be free and available to everyone so it can be enjoyed by all people regardless of their financial status or ability to buy it.
> 
> Knowledge to the people is power



I'm not attacking anyone just being the devils advocate and showing there are more than one side to all issues.
..
So if you create a video game that takes dozens even hundreds of hours to make, you're ok with not being paid for your work? Bills must be paid; electric, rent, distribution... who will pay yours if you are not paid for your work?


Knowledge is only POTENTIAL power, if it's not used it is useless. Now Knowledge WITH action is power. Action without knowledge is (... much of the net)

Fin


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## cooroxd (May 31, 2016)




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## The Catboy (May 31, 2016)

I know the damages it can do, but at the same time it's only something I do when I know I can't afford to buy the game. Once I get the money to buy it, I go out and buy it new or through digital download.
I am indifferent about it.


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## Jao Chu (May 31, 2016)

I pirate everything, music, movies, TV shows, eBooks and of course, games.

When it comes to 3DS games though, i tend to consider myself as an "ethical pirate." That is, if i put more than 30 hours into a game, I'll actually physically walk into a shop and buy it, even if it ends up sitting in a cupboard unopened and still sealed.

I don't buy into the claptrap of "piracy kills game studios/consoles/developers/profits blah blah*

Even during the heyday of DS piracy, i was the only person i was aware of who actually new what a flash card and a .nds file was...


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## Kourin (Jun 1, 2016)

Piracy is wrong no matter how you look at, I pirate myself and I'm not going to make up a bunch of excuses as to why I do. It's easy, fast and doesn't cost anything. I don't like seeing people making up a million excuses.

I don't think piracy is directly killing anything though. For instance, a lot of games I pirate are games I wouldn't have bought either way. Games I could live without playing. They haven't lost a sale from me when I wouldn't have bought the game anyway. It's doing damage, yes, but not doing as much damage as people think.

The only exception to piracy being wrong is the sale of old games. Anything that you can't obtain first hard due to it not being sold anymore shouldn't be wrong. You've technically screwed a company out of a sale anyway if you're buying second hand.


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## RevPokemon (Jun 4, 2016)

syfyTy said:


> I'm not attacking anyone just being the devils advocate and showing there are more than one side to all issues.
> ..
> So if you create a video game that takes dozens even hundreds of hours to make, you're ok with not being paid for your work? Bills must be paid; electric, rent, distribution... who will pay yours if you are not paid for your work?
> 
> ...



That was such an old post that I forgot about it.

Anyway I guess it is because I believe that more or less people have a certain right per sey to knowledge and that it should be protected. When it comes to video games i feel that we generally do not view them in the same light in terms of the knowledge that can be gained but it can happen. A great example would be in terms of the study of culture which video games have had some affected on. Granted I do know that most of the time you do not pirate for educational purposes then again it has happened.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Kourin said:


> The only exception to piracy being wrong is the sale of old games. Anything that you can't obtain first hard due to it not being sold anymore shouldn't be wrong. You've technically screwed a company out of a sale anyway if you're buying second hand.



As an honest question (I am not trying to sound mean) but in that understanding is it ok to pirate a game that is able to buy via say PSN or Virtual Console? Reason is many old games that are popular to pirate are also on VC and what not.


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## Gameboyandwatch (Jun 8, 2016)

My friend just blocked me for emulating o-o


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## Davidosky99 (Jun 8, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> My friend just blocked me for emulating o-o


as i said b4, just ignore him, he's a whiny dick


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## cooroxd (Jun 8, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> My friend just blocked me for emulating o-o



Some 'friend'  he turned out to be.  Good riddance


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## Issac (Jun 9, 2016)

I have stepped down my gaming piracy quite a bit. A lot of it thanks to steam. I can barely remember the last time I pirated a PC game, because I have so many games to play through really cheap sales or bundles.
I hacked my Wii, but I didn't have anything good to store my games on so I tried three games out, and then I got a Wii U. And the Wii U is too much of a hassle for me to hack. I just keep it updated and buy the games I want.
The 3DS and DS on the other hand, I still pirate. Only because I'm cheap. (I have ~15 store bought 3ds games though, ~20 DS games).

Music, I do pirate it. Several reasons. 
1: I want to listen to something that I'm not sure I'll like. (Spotify works for this too). 
2: I have the vinyl, and want a digital copy. Most of the time, there are MP3 download codes... but I want FLAC files. That's the main reason I pirate music (that I bought)  

Movies, Series, Anime: Movies if they're hard to come by legally. Otherwise I'll rent or buy movies. Series that I REALLY like, I'll buy box sets (Twin Peaks, X-Files). Fast food series like The Big Bang Theory is "download, watch, and throw away", and I could just wait a few weeks or a month to catch the episodes on TV, but the subtitles are often worthless and I like the convenience to watch it whenever I have time and not stick to some TV schedule. 
When it comes to Anime though, I download most of it. I have a few box sets, and movies of course. But series are too hard to come by here, because either it's super expensive box sets with half a season each for $half a soul, or even more expensive American imports that are incompatible with my blu-ray / dvd players... or just not available at all.


But what do I think of piracy? I think it's wrong. 
I have no right what so ever to download shit and enjoy it for free.

The only thing I feel is alright is when I download digital files of records I've bought. (Because I can get FLAC files from my CDs, but not from my Vinyls (without ripping the vinyl, which is a pain in the ass).
And the TV series that is currently playing on TV here, if I miss an episode or just want to watch it not glued to the TV at a certain time of the day. Those are OK in my opinion.

The rest is bullshit, but I won't claim I'm not guilty. Because I am. I'm poor, and I want to play more games than I can afford. So I pirate. If it's something I really like, I try to buy myself a physical copy whenever I can.


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## Gameboyandwatch (Jun 9, 2016)

cooroxd said:


> Some 'friend'  he turned out to be.  Good riddance


The funny thing is that he pirates music and tv shows


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## Davidosky99 (Jun 9, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> The funny thing is that he pirates music and tv shows


damn hypocrite


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## Gameboyandwatch (Jun 9, 2016)

Davidosky99 said:


> damn hypocrite


But remember, if it's from youtube, it's okay because it's not piratebay, and it's totally not the same as downloading roms


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## Davidosky99 (Jun 9, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> But remember, if it's from youtube, it's okay because it's not piratebay, and it's totally not the same as downloading roms


it's illegal to download mp3s and mp4s from youtube though as so damages the autors(yeah like if they were damaged anyways)


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## Temptress Cerise (Jun 9, 2016)

My opinion on it is, I don't really care. I buy the games I really want, even if I have to import them. However, I can't say that my family doesn't pirate, received 2 DMCA complaints in the past, so I've setup a pfSense router with a VPN that doesn't care about that with a warrant canary. I only really suffer a 5Mbps/5Mbps hit on my 100Mbps/100Mbps conneection, when having my whole household behind a VPN. Haven't seen a single DMCA notice, and I'm pretty sure my brothers and the rest of my family members continue downloading illegal stuff.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 9, 2016)

Davidosky99 said:


> it's illegal to download mp3s and mp4s from youtube though as so damages the autors(yeah like if they were damaged anyways)


*UNLESS the content creator gives you express permission


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## NohrPrince (Jun 9, 2016)

I personally would be okay with pirating to my heart's content, but me being the law-abiding citizen I am, I get scared from even trying to pirate something...even if chances of being caught are very low. I don't think of it as theft, but to me it's ok if there's absolutely no chance of you getting caught.


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## hacksn5s4 (Jun 10, 2016)

well it does the same thing as buying used games or not buying the game at all and not pirating it and those arent illegal but piracy encouges people not to buy the game while used games and not buying the game at all and not pirating does not and its not realy stealing is just copying some ones game that some one else bought your not stealing an object your copying it but the problem is the game won't sell if it was legal so they had to make it illegal and it would not work thats why there are laws because things will not work with out them. there is copy protection so only people who can hack can do it so its not even a problem because only the small pecentage of people who can hack affect it and only buy a little but

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

in short it does the same thing as used games and people not buying the game at all and not pirating it but if you made used games illegal it would not be fair as people would not be able to make money of their old games or give them to a firend


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## Haloman800 (Jun 10, 2016)

Copyright laws are invalid, they are arbitrary and they are violations of my freedom of speech and property rights. Copying is not theft.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 10, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> Copyright laws are invalid, they are arbitrary and they are violations of my freedom of speech and property rights. Copying is not theft.


Murder laws are invalid. They infringe upon my right to freely express myself


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## Luglige (Jun 10, 2016)

Gameboyandwatch said:


> My friend just blocked me for emulating o-o


Good Friend xD



Haloman800 said:


> Copyright laws are invalid, they are arbitrary and they are violations of my freedom of speech and property rights. Copying is not theft.


-Cough- YouTube -Cough-


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Murder laws are invalid. They infringe upon my right to freely express myself


Murder violates another persons property (their own body) me copying a sequence of 1's and 0's in my own home does not infringe on anyone's rights, nor does it deprive anything from anyone else.

If I use my own ink, and my own paper, and copy the words from a book; have I deprived the original owner of anything? Of course I have not. To say that "No, you cannot write down those words, because someone has written them down before you" is a violation of my property rights.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> Murder violates another persons property (their own body) me copying a sequence of 1's and 0's in my own home does not infringe on anyone's rights, nor does it deprive anything from anyone else.
> 
> If I use my own ink, and my own paper, and copy the words from a book; have I deprived the original owner of anything? Of course I have not. To say that "No, you cannot write down those words, because someone has written them down before you" is a violation of my property rights.


Actually yes, Yes it does. Those 1's and 0's are your bank account number. Your name. Your nudes. Your everything. People don't understand binary neither would they care. Yet just to point out that those 1's and 0's are your everything xD


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> Actually yes, Yes it does. Those 1's and 0's are your bank account number. Your name. Your nudes. Your everything. People don't understand binary neither would they care. Yet just to point out that those 1's and 0's are your everything xD



If someone copies my SSN, then they are impersonating me and committing fraud; this violates my property rights.

If I copy a book with my own ink and paper, I am neither depriving the creator from their copy, nor am I taking anything from anyone else.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> If someone copies my SSN, then they are impersonating me and committing fraud; this violates my property rights.
> 
> If I copy a book with my own ink and paper, I am neither depriving the creator from their copy, nor am I taking anything from anyone else.


Yes but you're copying *their* thoughts. Which in turn means you're copying their work. They own it. They deal with the contents them selves.


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> Yes but you're copying *their* thoughts. Which in turn means you're copying their work. They own it. They deal with the contents them selves.



"they own it" no, they don't. You cannot own an idea. However, to say that I can't do whatever I want with my _own_ property (assuming it doesn't violate someone else's rights) is saying that you are a co-owner of my property and can tell me what I can and cannot do with it.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> "they own it" no, they don't. You cannot own an idea. However, to say that I can't do whatever I want with my _own_ property (assuming it doesn't violate someone else's rights) is saying that you are a co-owner of my property and can tell me what I can and cannot do with it.


If they publish an idea then yes, they do own it. And you have to sight the source in a bibliography. Or you can face a hefty fine and even be expelled from your school!


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## TrapperKeeperX (Jun 11, 2016)

It's all corporate greed companies push out garbage that actually profit off the brainwashed. Plus they keep jacking up the prices of everything. Some Movies & Games do deserve the money for their hard work but at the same time don't make everything too limited like limited edition game because the scalping does encourage pirating companies should learn this lesson. Companies should be held responsible for promoting garbage.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

TrapperKeeperX said:


> It's all corporate greed companies push out garbage that actually profit off the brainwashed. Plus they keep jacking up the prices of everything. Some Movies & Games do deserve the money for their hard work but at the same time don't make everything too limited like limited edition game because the scalping does encourage pirating companies should learn this lesson. Companies should be held responsible for promoting garbage.


Agreed.


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> If they publish an idea then yes, they do own it. And you have to sight the source in a bibliography. Or you can face a hefty fine and even be expelled from your school!


So, according to your logic, Richard Dawkins owns the word "meme" since he first published it in his book. And he has a right to prevent us from using this word? Does he have a right to extort money out of us from using it? For what period of time? What are the conditions?

Do you see how arbitrary all of this is? All of the above are not hypotheticals, I want to hear your answers.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> So, according to your logic, Richard Dawkins owns the word "meme" since he first published it in his book. And he has a right to prevent us from using this word? Does he have a right to extort money out of us from using it? For what period of time? What are the conditions?
> 
> Do you see how arbitrary all of this is? All of the above are not hypotheticals, I want to hear your answers.


Well duh ofcourse not. That's logic. But a scientific discovery that was published in a book should never be sighted by anyone. And the person who discovered it was useless and didn't find it xD

ALSO 999 POSTS


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## RemixDeluxe (Jun 11, 2016)

RevPokemon said:


> There are a lot of posts on this and varying opinions.
> 
> Myself I believe that media should be free and available to everyone so it can be enjoyed by all people regardless of their financial status or ability to buy it. Knowledge to the people is power and removing said knowledge via censorship and laws is weakening said knowledge towards the people...


Devs need to eat too.

I certainly wouldn't take time out of my day to work on something for free. The world doesn't work like that.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2016)

Are we doing this again? Didn't we get nowhere last time this came up ( http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo...for-new-controller.424200/page-2#post-6289660 ), albeit more for patents.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Are we doing this again? Didn't we get nowhere last time this came up ( http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendo...for-new-controller.424200/page-2#post-6289660 ), albeit more for patents.


Especially with people that don't get basic copyright laws and regulations


RemixDeluxe said:


> Devs need to eat too.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't take time out of my day to work on something for free. The world doesn't work like that.


xD happen to agree.

EDIT: 1,000!


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> Well duh ofcourse not. That's logic. But a scientific discovery that was published in a book should never be sighted by anyone. And the person who discovered it was useless and didn't find it xD
> 
> ALSO 999 POSTS


So scientific discoveries aren't owned, but patterns of words can be owned? Please tell me more about your arbitrary rules, and your justifications for them.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> So scientific discoveries aren't owned, but patterns of words can be owned? Please tell me more about your arbitrary rules, and your justifications for them.


I think that he was saying that they _are_, and that they shouldn't be stolen by somebody else who claims to have discovered it first


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I think that he was saying that they _are_, and that they shouldn't be stolen by somebody else who claims to have discovered it first


If that's the case, then what logically follows is we can't use the term "meme" because it is property of Richard Dawkins (since he used it first). We can't use any word unless it was invented by ourselves, since someone else "created" them and using it would be an infringement on their "property".


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> If that's the case, then what logically follows is we can't use the term "meme" because it is property of Richard Dawkins (since he used it first). We can't use any word unless it was invented by ourselves, since someone else "created" them and using it would be an infringement on their "property".


By your logic the word "the" should be owned to.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> If that's the case, then what logically follows is we can't use the term "meme" because it is property of Richard Dawkins (since he used it first). We can't use any word unless it was invented by ourselves, since someone else "created" them and using it would be an infringement on their "property".


Or unless the creator states that you can use it, either through verbal or written communication or by not restricting usage. In the case of "meme" it's the latter


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> By your logic the word "the" should be owned to.


That's not my argument, mine is that _no_ ideas, words, sequences of words, or bits, or colors can be owned. Ideas can be copied without infringing on the owners use of them.

For instance, if I invent a new way to harvest cotton, and you copy my idea, your use of it does not prevent me from using it also.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> If that's the case, then what logically follows is we can't use the term "meme" because it is property of Richard Dawkins (since he used it first). We can't use any word unless it was invented by ourselves, since someone else "created" them and using it would be an infringement on their "property".


Also, i'm talking about *books* not singaler words, as a book containing the word "meme" and only "meme" would not be a book, that's a sentence.



Haloman800 said:


> That's not my argument, mine is that _no_ ideas, words, sequences of words, or bits, or colors can be owned. Ideas can be copied without infringing on the owners use of them.
> 
> For instance, if I invent a new way to harvest cotton, and you copy my idea, your use of it does not prevent me from using it also.


Your logic sucks.


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> Also, i'm talking about *books* not singaler words, as a book containing the word "meme" and only "meme" would not be a book, that's a sentence.


What constitutes a book? How many words? How many letters? If it's 500, if someone writes a "book" that's 499 words, he can't protect that, but if it's 500, he can? Please tell me more about your arbitrary, made up rules that you are trying to enforce on everyone.



> Your logic sucks.


Not an argument.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2016)

Some of that is bordering on strawman -- every a cursory reading of IP statutes would show there are conditions, exceptions and whatever else. The only way you would be restricted in using a word is if it was trademarked and then it is mainly for use in business contexts.

From the previous topic, and I guess this as well you position seems to be that the US constitution, a few amendments (possibly just beyond those of the bill of rights) including the free speech and certain property rights are foundational laws that go above basically everything else in your world view. If that is the case and reading them in a vacuum then yeah I guess it would be a violation to call intellectual property a thing and enforce it as such.
It is not the case though (there are many laws, the system being set up such that were always designed to be more of them -- see also what the word amendment means, that being they got it wrong initially and needed to change it and left provisions to do so) and there are many exceptions to said speech and property laws, the notion of copyright and intellectual property in general being among them. Such things get made as they are theoretically useful to society, or in some cases because things are corrupt and laws get pushed through.
There are various things we could look at to see if it is useful. Number of works vs time vs introduction or enforcement of various IP laws is likely a good one, though it will have to be qualified by looking at places with different timelines or approaches.

Suffice it to say though IP exists and is an accepted concept by basically all of the modern world.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> That's not my argument, mine is that _no_ ideas, words, sequences of words, or bits, or colors can be owned. Ideas can be copied without infringing on the owners use of them.
> 
> For instance, if I invent a new way to harvest cotton, and you copy my idea, your use of it does not prevent me from using it also.


Ok imagine I spent A LOT of time on my product, A program that would allow you to find the nearest fitbit near you (Sorry for how lame that is). And then I publish it. Now then some mother fricking idiot like you comes around taking his work! THAT YOU SPENT NO TIME ON MAKING OR THINKING ABOUT! BUT YEAH I'M GONNA USE THIS PROGRAM CAUSE NO ONE FRICKIN OWNS IT! YOU KNOW WHAT I DON'T EVEN OWN MY HOUSE NOW! HELL, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU FRICKING OWN MY SOUL, THX SATEN!


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Suffice it to say though IP exists and is an accepted concept by basically all of the modern world.


And at one point, slavery exists and was an accepted concept by all of the "modern" world. That's not an argument.



Luglige said:


> Now then some mother fricking idiot like you comes around *taking* his work!


"Copying" is not "taking". If I copy your painting, you still have the original. If I copy your method of discovering fitbits, you still have, and can still use your method.

If anyone is interested in the logic and reason behind rejecting IP laws, check out https://mises.org/library/case-against-ip-concise-guide


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## osaka35 (Jun 11, 2016)

Piracy isn't like stealing. It's far more complicated than that. Which makes it hard to discuss, because people want a black and white "This is mine, this is not yours" line.

Piracy is closer to buying a book from a bookstore, then copying/printing the pages and giving that copy to a friend to read. The friend may or may not have ever actually bought the book. Perhaps their motives are completely irrelevant.

Currently many countries copyright laws extend to how their license, the thing they own, is distributed. In the case of the copied book, you only have permission to read the book and keep it for further readings. Many copyright owners get a bit testy when you try and copy their stuff and distribute it. They see that as their right. Copyright law, for the most part, agrees with them.

A ruling in the US made a small exception for ripping CDs to MP3s. Many take this to mean that the logic that supported that ruling can therefore be applied to all the things. That, unfortunately, is not how law works. Only ripping of cds are exempt. That and radio stations are exempt from paying artist for playing their songs on air, for very odd reasons. But that's another discussion.

The point of contention is that while the copyright owner has the only right to decide how and when their product is distributed, you copying their work has no affect on them. Or rather, it has as much affect on them as second hand sales. Are second hand-sales illegal? Absolutely not. And for good reasons that I don't have time or effort to lay out all right here.

But software companies are trying to get rid of the second-hand market as well. They see a loss in profit in the second-hand market as they could see it is just as bad as pirating to their bottom line. This is why they keep trying to push for digital downloads only, single use codes, and restricting movement of data as much as possible.

We certainly don't like that. Well, most of us don't like that. We feel we bought something, it's ours. But to them, you just bought the right to use it. for yourself. no one else.

That's why I still choose physical media as often as I can. What's the solution? who knows. But piracy is the result of the consumer wanting more control and options over their limited time and money, and "right to use but not own or sell" is the flip side of that struggle.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> What constitutes a book? How many words? How many letters? If it's 500, if someone writes a "book" that's 499 words, he can't protect that, but if it's 500, he can? Please tell me more about your arbitrary, made up rules that you are trying to enforce on everyone.
> 
> 
> Not an argument.


Ok.


Haloman800 said:


> And at one point, slavery exists and was an accepted concept by all of the "modern" world. That's not an argument.
> 
> 
> "Copying" is not "taking". If I copy your painting, you still have the original. If I copy your method of discovering fitbits, you still have, and can still use your method.
> ...


Listen, you never diss my friend @FAST6191 . If you do. You die. He gives more helpful info then this crap and your tumblr crap combined! Any way back to subject. Well yes, But if I want to make money, how will I? Also, you're sounding like you want all things open source, which is something that will never happen xD


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> But if I want to make money, how will I?





Spoiler


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> Spoiler


Your logic makes no sense! NO ONE CAN MAKE MONEY BEACAUSE THEY CAN JUST COPY YOUR FRICKING METHOD! I get the positive side, But the fricking idea that everything just magically becomes everyones is dirty and disgusting! It's like saying I own your house! Just I'm gonna copy the contents and build it right outside, making sure you don't lose anthing! But you fricking are! You're losing money!


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## osaka35 (Jun 11, 2016)

On a related note, you cannot copyright or trademark a process. Recipes and the like cannot be copyrighted. That's why some choose to create a slogan, or a popular phrase, around their process, because that phrase or slogan is something that can be trademarked. Or, put another way, you can make your own video game console, you just can't make a sony video game console (or have your video game motto be "make believe")


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> Your logic makes no sense! NO ONE CAN MAKE MONEY BEACAUSE THEY CAN JUST COPY YOUR FRICKING METHOD! I get the positive side, But the fricking idea that everything just magically becomes everyones is dirty and disgusting! It's like saying I own your house! Just I'm gonna copy the contents and build it right outside, making sure you don't lose anthing! But you fricking are! You're losing money!


You do not have a right to extort money out of me for a pattern of words/bits/colors. You cannot own an idea.

What you are advocating is using violence against me if I copy a sequence of bits, in my own house, with my own property. That affects *no one *and does not take the sequence of bits away from the original author.


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## osaka35 (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> You do not have a right to extort money out of me for a pattern of words/bits/colors. You cannot own an idea.
> 
> What you are advocating is using violence against me if I copy a sequence of bits, in my own house, with my own property. That affects *no one *and does not take the sequence of bits away from the original author.


Using your logic, how can anyone be convicted of murder? I mean, it's just moving bits of atoms around. How can moving bits of atoms around be a crime?

While I agree that doing stuff at home doesn't directly affect anyone else, that is a singular instance. You have to take a step back and see how the change happens on a world-scale. What trends are created through moving certain patterns of words/bits/colors, if everyone is doing it. You have to understand that before you can understand whether it's something that should be supported or dismissed.

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
- John Donne​
Is that related? eh, a bit. Really, I just like the excuse to whip that poem out.


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## hacksn5s4 (Jun 11, 2016)

has any one here got caught for it though


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> Using your logic, how can anyone be convicted of murder? I mean, it's just moving bits of atoms around. How can moving bits of atoms around be a crime?


Murder violated another person's self ownership and property rights. IP laws also violate my property, because it gives every author co-ownership of my property, telling me things I can and cannot do it with, things that do not violate others rights or property.



> While I agree that doing stuff at home doesn't directly affect anyone else, that is a singular instance. You have to take a step back and see how the change happens on a world-scale. What trends are created through moving certain patterns of words/bits/colors, if everyone is doing it. You have to understand that before you can understand whether it's something that should be supported or dismissed.


The burden of proof lies on you to prove that letting adults use their property in ways that doesn't harm anyone, that this should be restricted and individuals who copy things should have violence used against them.


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## hacksn5s4 (Jun 11, 2016)

thing is with piracy all your doing is some one who owns the game wants to share it with others an puts it on the internet its the guys game so he should be able to do what he wants with it the only problem is this won't work because every one will just pirate instead of buy it and the company will not get any money its kind of an unfair law but has to be done or compnays would lose alot of money


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 11, 2016)

Blah9001

PS: sorry, I wanted my post to fit with the ongoing discussion.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> You do not have a right to extort money out of me for a pattern of words/bits/colors. You cannot own an idea.
> 
> What you are advocating is using violence against me if I copy a sequence of bits, in my own house, with my own property. That affects *no one *and does not take the sequence of bits away from the original author.


Ok. Also. Fricking stop calling bits bits.  There is way much more to the sequence then "bits" get your frickin facts straight before you shove it up the butthole of others. Also lady, I'm not frickin commiting an act of violence! You fricking sound like I just raped you by spending time on something and I don't want frickinh idiots like you coming around taking it without paying! What now? You wanna own my laptop? I will comment here though that copyright laws are broken, But I think you're comming from a service's standpoint,  like youtube. Which, yeah it's broken. But the idea of copyright is not. It's there to protect someones work. Also you can fricking own the thing too.  JUST PAY/PIRATE IT! Also yeah it doesn't *take* any thing away. But I can copy the frickinh SAM & SYSTEM file off a computer and they wouldn't know. Yet that data can crack a users password! But hey he NEVER FRICKING OWNED it! By your logic we fricking own anything and everything! So you know what! I own the NSA and the .gov extension! Oh yeah and let's not forget every celebertie sextape! CAUSE THOSE STRINGS OF BITS ARE USELESS. ITS NOT LIKE THEY HAVE INFINITE COMBINATIONS THAT CAN RESULT IN YOUR FRICKING CREDIT CARD NUMBER. Ah, no I'm just a fricking woman that sharppied a name into my hand thinking that no one would think I would be a "real grill" and they don't matter, I have no idea of the rights of privacy or any ownership ideas because I'm like fricking 15 getting into politics even though I can't vote and I use tumblr all day to rant about this Bull Crap
.


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## MontyQ (Jun 11, 2016)




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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

MontyQ said:


> View attachment 52532


Horseporn, So Much Horseporn


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## Haloman800 (Jun 11, 2016)

Luglige said:


> Ok. Also. Fricking stop calling bits bits.  There is way much more to the sequence then "bits" get your frickin facts straight before you shove it up the butthole of others. Also lady, I'm not frickin commiting an act of violence! You fricking sound like I just raped you by spending time on something and I don't want frickinh idiots like you coming around taking it without paying! What now? You wanna own my laptop? I will comment here though that copyright laws are broken, But I think you're comming from a service's standpoint,  like youtube. Which, yeah it's broken. But the idea of copyright is not. It's there to protect someones work. Also you can fricking own the thing too.  JUST PAY/PIRATE IT! Also yeah it doesn't *take* any thing away. But I can copy the frickinh SAM & SYSTEM file off a computer and they wouldn't know. Yet that data can crack a users password! But hey he NEVER FRICKING OWNED it! By your logic we fricking own anything and everything! So you know what! I own the NSA and the .gov extension! Oh yeah and let's not forget every celebertie sextape! CAUSE THOSE STRINGS OF BITS ARE USELESS. ITS NOT LIKE THEY HAVE INFINITE COMBINATIONS THAT CAN RESULT IN YOUR FRICKING CREDIT CARD NUMBER. Ah, no I'm just a fricking woman that sharppied a name into my hand thinking that no one would think I would be a "real grill" and they don't matter, I have no idea of the rights of privacy or any ownership ideas because I'm like fricking 15 getting into politics even though I can't vote and I use tumblr all day to rant about this Bull Crap
> .



You claim you don't advocate violence. But that is exactly what laws are; violence. If you don't obey whatever idiotic law gets passed, eventually men with guns will come to your house and kidnap you, if you resist they will shoot you.

You are advocating violence against individuals who are performing peaceful acts with their own property. Tell me how you justify this.


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## Luglige (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> You claim you don't advocate violence. But that is exactly what laws are; violence. If you don't obey whatever idiotic law gets passed, eventually men with guns will come to your house and kidnap you, if you resist they will shoot you.
> 
> You are advocating violence against individuals who are performing peaceful acts with their own property. Tell me how you justify this.


LAWS KEEP PEOPLE IN PLACE! xD


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## Ricken (Jun 11, 2016)

I'm a filthy pirate. Fite me.


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## osaka35 (Jun 11, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> You claim you don't advocate violence. But that is exactly what laws are; violence. If you don't obey whatever idiotic law gets passed, eventually men with guns will come to your house and kidnap you, if you resist they will shoot you.
> 
> You are advocating violence against individuals who are performing peaceful acts with their own property. Tell me how you justify this.


Laws are also there to prevent violence and give legal recourse  but I suspect your viewpoint is that as long as no one is aware of your actions, and you're not aware of how your actions affect others, no law should ever apply.

This is a very common conservative argument (libertarian), and is debated a lot. As far as burden of proofs go, it's a divergence of ideals. It's not an argument of evidence or proofs. We're arguing which ideal is better for our society, so we argue the veracity of the logic. One is not inherently right or wrong. Whether one is right or wrong depends on what our social goals are.

To that end, what kind of protections should personal creations have. Say you created a piece of music. How much right do you have to that song? Can people use it without your name? Without your knowledge? Against your consent?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Lucar (Jun 12, 2016)

Wow, shit look heated.

Lemme break it up with this: If a game was free but was not available for your region, do you think it's fair to pirate the game so you can play it?


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## mgrev (Jun 12, 2016)

i am pirating games at this exact moment and i must say i don't give a shit


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jun 12, 2016)

Lucar said:


> Wow, shit look heated.
> 
> Lemme break it up with this: If a game was free but was not available for your region, do you think it's fair to pirate the game so you can play it?


Yes


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## Pokéidiot (Jun 12, 2016)

*Fake moral hacker:* I exploited a bug in Playstation 5 that allows full control of the system and allows piracy. And I'm not going to release. Never. Because I don't support piracy.
*Fake moral hacker:* *puts 900 torrents to be downloaded in uTorrent*

Like this


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## Luglige (Jun 12, 2016)

Pokéidiot said:


> *Fake moral hacker:* I exploited a bug in Playstation 5 that allows full control of the system and allows piracy. And I'm not going to release. Never. Because I don't support piracy.
> *Fake moral hacker:* *puts 900 torrents to be downloaded in uTorrent*
> 
> Like this


Truth.


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## Feeling it! (Jun 13, 2016)

I think certain things like Xenoblade Chronicles and Monster Hunter deserve a purchase but anything related to lego or something that you know is a bad game should not be cared about.


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 13, 2016)

Feeling it! said:


> I think certain things like Xenoblade Chronicles and Monster Hunter deserve a purchase but anything related to lego or something that you know is a bad game should not be cared about.


I really think pirating is not that bad and you should buy what you like. 
E.g. I was playing a less than original version of Xenoblade X since release in Japan, and bought the limited edition when it was released in Europe. 
Same happened with Fire Emblem Fates, Project Mirai, SMT4, long etc.
I certainly find this between gray and illegal, but I can't make me find it wrong nevertheless.


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## SonicCloud (Jun 14, 2016)

If you don't have enough money for that game, go for piracy :o!


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## duyluan (Jun 14, 2016)

I think just don't use piracy stuff to make money out of it


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## Dorimori (Jun 14, 2016)

In the words of margen67, piracy is right!

Piracy is wrong, but I'm not exactly a good person¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Urbanshadow (Jun 14, 2016)

I am *very* picky with games. I come from an era where was usual to find 6 or 7 game demos inside your monthly PC magazine. I like to test what am I buying before spending anything. Right now it's hard to keep everything the way it was without downloading the full game. And if I like the game enough, I'll buy it. If I don't like the game enough, I'll delete it and never play it again.

This said, I would not stop anyone else from pirating. I have my reasons to do the things I do so I assume everyone has a good one (this is not true, I know).

Then comes the price problem. When I play a pirated game, I'm also evaluating how much is it worth to my standarts. If I like a game enough, I'll stop playing it until I find what I think is a reasonable price for it. Even if I really really like Dark Souls 3, I'm not gonna spend 85 € to get the full game (game+dlc season pass). I will pay around 30 or 40 for it (because I really like it and I can afford that) when it comes with the dlcs. If that means I'll have to wait, I'll wait.

Edit: I am a huge fan of the Humble approximation. If one or two games are good I don't mind spend more for charity organizations even if I don't like all of the games in the full package.


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## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2016)

Okay. I'm going to be simple about this. 

I don't care. Unless your not trying to be a scumbag with it and selling pirated stuff I don't care and will still pirate stuff for years to come.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 17, 2016)

I pirate games I want to try. If I think it's worth purchasing, I do it.

E.g. I downloaded a ROM of Professor Layton and the Unwound Future the day it came out and beat it in a day. I bought it the next day to show support.

I believe that piracy comes with the responsibility of at least doing it courteously, as contradictory as that might sound. I'm against taking and not giving back where it is deserved.


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## Hayleia (Jun 17, 2016)

I don't know how I feel about piracy in itself.

First, obvious arguments that you probably saw everywhere in these 10 pages, for people who can't afford games, piracy is actually good. They would never buy the games anyway, but thanks to piracy, at least they buy the console so they contribute to the video game industry... Too bad this is balanced by people who could afford games but pirate them instead.

Onto more personal stuff that maybe only applies to me, it is great to be able to install pirated versions of games on the 3DS after buying a cartridge for example (because a cartridge is a better possession than a digital download (which will be useless once the eShop closes) but annoying to use)... But actually it's almost too easy now. I mean, I went out to buy MH4U last year, and that kind of motivated me to play it. Then, when I wanted to play it more, I looked into getting it in cia form for convenience (it was a time when you either had to convert or find it, but finding it was annoying, like getting on that iso site, logging in, finding only USA versions when you're from EU, etc, so I really only did that when I was sure I wanted that cart into a cia format). But now, pirating is so easy on the 3DS that just about any game can be downloaded in minutes, so I'm no longer motivated to go out and buy, but if I don't get out and buy I am not motivated in trying games as hard either... So I just almost never buy anything but I don't play pirated games either. It's almost like piracy killed my motivation to play.

Now please, read the beginning of the previous paragraph again please, "maybe only applies to me", I do not blame anyone here, I'm just weird. Also, this only applies to games. Because most games are boring at first and better after that, so you really have to force yourself to play to actually start enjoying them. But for movies for example, it's another story. It's only like 2 hours so you don't force yourself at all. That's why here ok, I got a pirated Frozen download (can't see it in theaters after 2 years so I'll only see it on a small screen anyway), watched it, liked it and bought an Elsa plushie to show support, for twice the price of a DVD (which by the way would have been annoying to play since I don't have any DVD player) and three times the price of a cinema ticket because I don't care, it was good.


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 17, 2016)

@Hayleia 
I can see that for me lack of free time and being too tired to play killed my motivation to play. 
So lately I almost don't pirate, because I have no time to try games I don't know much about, and the games I really like I buy them, even limited editions, for them to collect dust. Meh. I should take some holidays.


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## hacksn5s4 (Jun 18, 2016)

eh i wonder how many people pirate

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Hayleia said:


> I don't know how I feel about piracy in itself.
> 
> First, obvious arguments that you probably saw everywhere in these 10 pages, for people who can't afford games, piracy is actually good. They would never buy the games anyway, but thanks to piracy, at least they buy the console so they contribute to the video game industry... Too bad this is balanced by people who could afford games but pirate them instead.
> 
> ...


only problem is its illegal and people can get huge fines for it.


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 18, 2016)

Ugh, I can't believe this is back on.  I would report it, but I don't think it's in any direct violation.  It's picked up too much for necroposting.


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## xdarkmario (Jun 18, 2016)

this thread is playing with fire man...


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 18, 2016)

xdarkmario said:


> this thread is playing with fire man...


Fire that everyone has seen a billion times before, on a billion different forums.


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## MionissNio (Jun 18, 2016)

Simple words, do not pirate software if you plan to make money with it, likewise many people in my country and India and China use pirated software even for cooperative business, MS office for example. In fact even highly educated people are shocked when I tell them real price of the software and their enterprise editions.


As for the games where should I start yes.
"Please undarstandu dew knot pierete a gaemuh it hurts companii profituh" whilst being true they do not realise that in many nations where the product is not officially available we have to pay larger sums for money even selling them. My local store despises Nintendo for example as their products after importing go above 2 times their price! And no discounts boy!

Wii u approx $569 here
3ds approx  270 - 390 here (Lowest o3ds highest n3dsxl)
Pokeon X $70
Alpha ruby $78
 And so on.

When I first got 3ds out of pure hype I was stuck with super monkey ball for a whole year! Eshop release of full games made life glorious for 3ds xl users where I first bought sm4sh. For appropriate price after conversion  and taxes.
So piracy was most convenient here. It allowed me to play more games which I showed to my buddies they were all mindblown how good games were on an unknown Japanese brand which builds hype on 3ds and Nintendo itself starting from roots of piracy soon My country may very well soon like nintendo making a potential market for us here and resulting more profit later! 

TL;DR I think so piracy when done in appropriate context to general law is brings nout harm. The bad piracy example is the software one and good piracy example is my 3ds one. Then again piracy does take away developers from a system, so it is most appropriate to pirate a system after 2 years it releases.


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## Veho (Jun 18, 2016)

> Your Opinions on Piracy?



In my opinion, piracy kicks ass, because free shit and stuff. Basically.


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## Haymose (Jun 18, 2016)

In my own experience, if I pirate it, I already bought it or I wasn't going to buy it anyway. So no fcks given.


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## Hayleia (Jun 18, 2016)

hacksn5s4 said:


> only problem is its illegal and people can get huge fines for it.


This thread is called "Your Opinions on Piracy", not "Obvious Truth and Facts about Piracy".


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## Touko White (Jun 18, 2016)

Piracy is Infinite Fun, because downloading things is fun and I feel good doing it...
I don't care what Mazin__ said about it being fun only to Sega... lol but I do support sega's old games. Besides there pretty tolerant of romhacks etc. apparently.

(just search that name on Twitter, it's the same guy who wrote the creepy message in Sonic CD, pretty obvious as his display name is the same)


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## Deleted User (Jun 19, 2016)

I'm against pirating new games; by pirating those games, you're taking away from the developers' profits, and hurting the industry.  This goes two-fold for indie developers, as they oftentimes don't have the finances that big AAA companies do, like EA and Ubisoft.

That being said, I believe piracy is, while not legally defensible, morally defensible under these conditions:
 - The game is old (older than last gen), and is not being sold as a re-release anywhere
 - You own a copy of the game

I, personally, don't see how downloading an old Commodore 64 game produced by a company that is now defunct would be hurting the games industry.  The company made its money, and it wouldn't be making its money now anyways.

That's just my two cents, though.


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## Touko White (Jun 19, 2016)

Yeah I agree with you.

Also what happens when you pirate a game that was released by a company that doesn't exist anymore (e.g. Zero Wing?)


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## hacksn5s4 (Jun 19, 2016)

Piracy a not theft if you game was stolen you would not have it. If some on copyed your game you would still have it. It only effects the company and if I did not buy a game or pirate it the same thing would happen if I pirated it But it encourages people to not buy game and hurts sales because people are getting a paid game free it's complicated since some legal things cause same effect as piracy Like used games not buying the game at all the game being bad and people not buying it cause of that


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## Pacheko17 (Jun 19, 2016)

I felt like not making a new thread for this so while on the subject of piracy.

If I download a pirated game that comes with a cracked steam_api.dll, will I be able to get banned from steam by running it?


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2016)

Pacheko17 said:


> I felt like not making a new thread for this so while on the subject of piracy.
> 
> If I download a pirated game that comes with a cracked steam_api.dll, will I be able to get banned from steam by running it?



As far as I know, no, as long as you don't add it to the Steam library or use the Steam client to launch it. I once had Assassin's Creed IV with the cracked .dll file, never used the launcher for it.


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## Pacheko17 (Jun 19, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> As far as I know, no, as long as you don't add it to the Steam library or use the Steam client to launch it. I once had Assassin's Creed IV with the cracked .dll file, never used the launcher for it.



Alright, thanks man! I really didn't want to have to close Steam to play it because I'm downloading something huge on there.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2016)

Pacheko17 said:


> Alright, thanks man! I really didn't want to have to close Steam to play it because I'm downloading something huge on there.



Just whatever you do, be careful anyways, cracked steam API files..never add pirated/downloaded games to the Steam library, heh.


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