# 3DS could feature automatic firmware updates



## Opium (Oct 1, 2010)

*3DS could feature automatic firmware updates*
New 3DS anti-piracy feature




It seems like Nintendo is taking piracy seriously for the 3DS. Nintendo president Satoru Iwata says Nintendo may very well implement automatic firmware updates on the 3DS without any input from the user.

New firmware updates would bring new features, but also block any potential vulnerabilities used for hacking the system.

During a Q&A sessions Mr Iwata said the 3DS could use the system's Spotpass mode to automatically download new firmware updates.

Spotpass mode is a new feature where the 3DS will seek out wifi hospots and automatically download content while in sleep mode.

"As part of the functionality of SpotPass, we're looking into having automatic system updates via the internet," Mr Iwata said.

He also said Nintendo want to include firmware updates on the games themselves, so newer games would presumably update your system before you can play them.

"We believed this to be doable because the usable ROM size for the 3DS would become much larger," he said.

Mr Iwata said many people in the past did not updated their system's firmware, so he is looking for new ways to bring updates to the users.

It certainly looks like Nintendo will be travelling down Sony's path of constant firmware updates to block hacking. They have already released two flashcard blocking updates on the DSi. Expect things to get even harder with a whole new handheld.






 Source


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## Veho (Oct 1, 2010)

Can't say I'm surprised. But when I suggested that as a possibility, everyone gawked at me that it's an "invasion of privacy" and "illegal" and who knows what.


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## DjoeN (Oct 1, 2010)

You can't blame them for protecting there source of income.


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## bloodred (Oct 1, 2010)

doesn't bother me I buy my games anyways


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## monaug5 (Oct 1, 2010)

I think it is a good move.

It is time that these game companies start to cash in from the labour of creating what we pirates have taken for free.


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## CrimzonEyed (Oct 1, 2010)

At last nintendo is doing what they should have done with the DSi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I'm going to by all my 3DS games


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## Cortador (Oct 1, 2010)

Don't setup an internet connection at all?


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## bloodred (Oct 1, 2010)

if you are moving on to the 3DS good bye WOOD R4, AKAIO and Supercard DSTWO
unless they bypass the 3DS


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## Icealote (Oct 1, 2010)

The games released for 3DS are worth buying anyways lol


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## RupeeClock (Oct 1, 2010)

If it's true that you can install games to the 3DS's internal memory, then I wouldn't need a flashcart for it anyway.
I buy my games, rarely pirate them or anything, but it's a bummer if you like homebrew.


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## Gullwing (Oct 1, 2010)

Oooh shooot!!! Now what? I'm supporting developers, but I sure need a flashcard... Well I got Dragon Quest 9 on my EDGE, but I loved it and bought it for my DSi.. I really love Nintendo, but I love pirates too


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## sstomouth (Oct 1, 2010)

Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will lose sales from me and other pirates.


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## Veho (Oct 1, 2010)

sstomouth said:
			
		

> Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will lose sales from me and other pirates.


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## George Dawes (Oct 1, 2010)

It would be illegal in Europe to force updates, so not something we have to worry about.

Of course they can (and no doubt will) have mandatory updates on the games, but that shouldn't be a huge problem once the system is exploited.


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## Omega_2 (Oct 1, 2010)

Icealote said:
			
		

> The games released for 3DS are worth buying anyways lol


Right up until you see "Imagine: snowboard instructor"


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## Cortador (Oct 1, 2010)

George Dawes said:
			
		

> It would be illegal in Europe to force updates, so not something we have to worry about.
> 
> Of course they can (and no doubt will) have mandatory updates on the games, but that shouldn't be a huge problem once the system is exploited.



Hopefully it will be just like the Psp. A firmware exploit instead of having to use a flashcart.


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## heartgold (Oct 1, 2010)

I don't care, 3DS games are worth buying, I'm giving them my support this time and plus I have money to spend now lol Don't give a fuck about flashcarts, If one comes by it'd be nice but I don't mind buying decent game nevertheless.


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## SamAsh07 (Oct 1, 2010)

sstomouth said:
			
		

> Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will lose sales from me and other pirates. What fags.


Money is for spending, not saving for eternity, and who even gave you the idea that _other_ pirates will do the same as you??
I'm pirating since 2007, but with the launch of the 3DS my pirating days will be over.

I may pirate DS games, but 3DS? No way, I love that hand-held and with all my heart, I will support MOST of the developers. It's time I came out of my pirating shell.


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## zeromac (Oct 1, 2010)

sstomouth said:
			
		

> Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will *lose sales* from me and other *pirates.*





Spoiler


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## Pikachu025 (Oct 1, 2010)

Frankly, if the "install games" thing is really true, I wouldn't care about being able to "pirate" games. Exceptions to that would be due to the region-locking that's probably gonna be on the 3DS; there are still gonna be good games that aren't released outside of Japan.


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## Kwartel (Oct 1, 2010)

Opium said:
			
		

> Spotpass mode is a new feature where the 3DS will seek out wifi hospots and automatically download content while in sleep mode.


Content = Firmware + DLC?


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## heartgold (Oct 1, 2010)

I just hope it isn't region-locked, if it is then the only hack I'd want is unlocking region-locking so I can import my games from America or Japan. UK always get shit last and sometimes good games don't get released here.


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## lukecop80 (Oct 1, 2010)

i was going to buy 3ds games anyway
if they are going to be up to 2gb then i'm definetely buying them


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## zeromac (Oct 1, 2010)

heartgold said:
			
		

> I just hope it isn't region-locked, if it is then the only hack I'd want is unlocking region-locking so I can import my games from America or Japan. UK always get shit last and sometimes good games don't get released here.


You think you guys get it last? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





WE DO
GODAMMIT
We always get our games last and they always cost like fucking 100$+
and we got that stupid censor board...


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## Hadrian (Oct 1, 2010)

I hope it works for them I really do, I'm tired of little children on this forum (like that certain poster in this thread) who think its a right to pirate.  I really doubt Nintendo would give a shit about losing hardware sales when they'll more than make up for it with software sales and good support from 3rd party devs.

Wii was doing fairly well for 3rd party sales up until the soft mods arrived, sadly most of the 3rd party publishers were late to developing.

I would like some demos though, just like with what the DS offers only more so.


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## prowler (Oct 1, 2010)

Cortador said:
			
		

> Don't setup an internet connection at all?


Doesn't matter.
The 3DS will search _automatically_ for wi-fi (Wi-Fi from hotspots like Starbucks or even maybe a neighbors Wi-Fi) and download these updates.

Sly Nintendo, sly.


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## Gullwing (Oct 1, 2010)

prowler_ said:
			
		

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Isn't it illegal to download and intsall something without the approvement of the system's owner? At least in Europe?


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## Seek01 (Oct 1, 2010)

This won't change anything. Add WEP for your house's wifi and don't give the key to your 3DS. Also, is the 3DS always in sleep mode when its not on? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do it if it were off completely.

This might be a problem for some, but I hardly go by any wifi connection that doesn't have some sort of encryption


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## Hadrian (Oct 1, 2010)

Gullwing said:
			
		

> Isn't it illegal to download and intsall something without the approvement of the system's owner? At least in Europe?


Well they could have something you have to sign when you buy the console saying you agree to installing without notification.


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## Gullwing (Oct 1, 2010)

Gaydrian said:
			
		

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Wha? Signing stuff? I think that automatic firmware updates won't happen.. Nintendo would be in huge trouble to make it happen


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## Omega_2 (Oct 1, 2010)

Gaydrian said:
			
		

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goddamn cell phones >_>


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## deathking (Oct 1, 2010)

Nintendo will most likely not be doing this 
it is still seen in many places as unethical to piggy back off wifi

think of potental lawsuits where kids playing 3dses piggy backing of unprotected wifis which can get you introuble with the law in many places where owners get brandwith stolen eg 100 un upgraded 3dses  say near a school getting a 20 meg upgrade each can easily eat away 2 gigs of data and depending on where on earth you are that can be pretty expensive especialy when you go over the limit.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...rom-his-car.ars


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## Kwartel (Oct 1, 2010)

Gullwing said:
			
		

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Put it in the EULA and your done


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## Nollog (Oct 1, 2010)

Seek01 said:
			
		

> This won't change anything. Add WEP for your house's wifi and don't give the key to your 3DS. Also, is the 3DS always in sleep mode when its not on? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do it if it were off completely.
> 
> This might be a problem for some, but I hardly go by any wifi connection that doesn't have some sort of encryption


lol, wep's bad.
use wpa2.

Also lol at you having the wifi switch on for some reason when you don't want it on a network.


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## prowler (Oct 1, 2010)

Seek01 said:
			
		

> This won't change anything. Add WEP for your house's wifi and don't give the key to your 3DS. Also, is the 3DS always in sleep mode when its not on? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do it if it were off completely.
> 
> This might be a problem for some, but I hardly go by any wifi connection that doesn't have some sort of encryption


http://3ds.nintendolife.com/news/2010/09/s...nnect24_for_3ds


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## heartgold (Oct 1, 2010)

Nollog said:
			
		

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All shit, I broke past my WPA2 security with some tools and software lol, with given time everything is hackable no matter how you wanna hide it.


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## deathking (Oct 1, 2010)

from
http://3ds.nintendolife.com/news/2010/09/s...nnect24_for_3ds

Nintendo will *allow you to set how much information you want to give or receive, with a set of privacy *controls *letting you determine your 3DS's level of engagement with the Internet*.

Wherever you are, it seems the 3DS will be able to send and receive new data all the time. Skynet is only a few small steps away.


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## BlueStar (Oct 1, 2010)

So, you know all these grave warnings when you update something's firmware about not powering off your system lest you end up with it half installed and an expensive brick? If it's doing this stuff in the background as you pass hotspots, what's to say at that point you're not gonna turn off the system or run out of battery after walking around all day with a constantly seeking wifi mode which you can't turn off?

In the UK its still very rare to find true open wifi hotspots, you get wifi on trains and in pubs and coffee shops but you usually need to ask at the bar for a password or complete a portal registration agreeing to terms and conditions first. Unless they're going to force me to steal my next-door-but-one neighbour's internet whether I want to or not?  Can imagine 3DS pirates walking around with their systems in a lead lined case to keep the updates out.


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## Omega_2 (Oct 1, 2010)

deathking said:
			
		

> from
> http://3ds.nintendolife.com/news/2010/09/s...nnect24_for_3ds
> 
> Nintendo will *allow you to set how much information you want to give or receive, with a set of privacy *controls *letting you determine your 3DS's level of engagement with the Internet*.
> ...


I shall be restored and resume terrorizing the local populace then.

EDIT:
Oh, and updates in carts


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## Opium (Oct 1, 2010)

The only reason why this may be a big deal is because it is very likely the 3DS will be region locked (which is totally stupid). So I await the day the 3DS can be hacked to make it region free.


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## Dimensional (Oct 1, 2010)

kwartel said:
			
		

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That still wouldn't work. If they did the automatic update without the users prior knowledge, then they would be taking a page from Sony's book of bad decision. If Nintendo were to install whatever they wanted onto their systems without the user having the option to opt out, then whats to say they won't install some sort of spyware onto their own systems to both brick a system that has been hacked/has a flash cart, or even use that to perform usage tracking while you browse the web, which would also means they would see you enter private information if your Nintendo product is your only way of accessing the internet and going to places that would have your personal information, ie bank, college, fafsa, etc.

Legally, users must always have the option not to update. Nintendo just has to do the same thing they did before with the wii, as well as what Sony did for their PS3. Make it to where you can't play a game or use other online features, like the shop, until you've updated it. But it has to be the user who manually tells the system to update, not the corporation.


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## Nollog (Oct 1, 2010)

Icealote said:
			
		

> The games released for 3DS are worth buying anyways lol
> How do you know?
> From videos?
> They're not even released yet.
> ...


orly? wpa2 should take 50+ years to crack, and nintendo won't go around cracking networks to make them "hotspots".
wep takes 10 minutes to crack, a good wpa2-psk key takes a very long time. You need to brute force it after all.

On topic, the wifi has a physical switch last time I heard. so keep it off if you want to wait for someone to hack it a few years down the line.
I'll be waiting for the red one to come out, and for it to come down in price hopefully.


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## indask8 (Oct 1, 2010)

Just adding the update server to your router blacklist will do the job.

But maybe Nintendo are smarter than that, Like disabling completely the 3DS after a certain date:
firmware works only during 6 month, then a new one is out, either with new feature or pushing the date to 6 extra month
the 3DS will run only after the update is completed.


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## Nollog (Oct 1, 2010)

boudincaca said:
			
		

> Just adding the update server to your router blacklist will do the job.
> 
> But maybe Nintendo are smarter than that, Like disabling completely the 3DS after a certain date:
> firmware works only during 6 month, then a new one is out, either with new feature or pushing the date to 6 extra month
> the 3DS will run only after the update is completed.


The problem is hotspots. You don't have access to mcdonald's router unless you work there for example.


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## Omega_2 (Oct 1, 2010)

boudincaca said:
			
		

> Just adding the update server to your router blacklist will do the job.
> 
> *But maybe Nintendo are smarter than that, Like disabling completely the 3DS after a certain date:
> firmware works only during 6 month, then a new one is out, either with new feature or pushing the date to 6 extra month
> the 3DS will run only after the update is completed.*


That makes me want to return it to where I got it from


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## thedicemaster (Oct 1, 2010)

Gaydrian said:
			
		

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not when buying, but they could easily make it part of the 1st use process(when you select name, birthday, fav color, etc.)
problem solved, because you had to give permission to use the console.


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## Searinox (Oct 1, 2010)

"Spotpass mode is a new feature where the 3DS will seek out wifi hospots and automatically download content while in sleep mode."

They can't do that. They can't make a device that automatically connects to open wifi networks without the user's consent. It'll cause a number of issues including ppl with wifi connections concerned of devices unauthorizedly connecting to them.


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## heartgold (Oct 1, 2010)

Nollog said:
			
		

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You're right stronger passwords are harder to crack down on WPA2, weaker ones or common words are vulnerable to dictionary attacks. Nothing is impossible though.


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## gumgod (Oct 1, 2010)

Haven't I been seeing a wifi switch on the side of the 3DS?  So... if you really don't want updates all you would have to do would be turn off that switch... I mean wouldn't they require an update to play online anyway?  So unless you're using it for the web browser then there's no reason to have it on (other than gimmicky games) so might as well turn it off and save battery life.



Spoiler


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## regnad (Oct 1, 2010)

It's like you don't own the console, you're just renting it. It ultimately belongs to Nintendo.


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## Coto (Oct 1, 2010)

regnad said:
			
		

> It's like you don't own the console, you're just renting it. It ultimately belongs to Nintendo.



Its been like that since some time, believe me..

Anyways, I´m quite happy we are about to see 3DS closer finally *-*

While Nintendo may try to upgrade the whole system no matter how, it´s more plausible we´re having some portable version of "WiiConect24", which can be turned off any time.

Don´t believe at all what Nintendo says.

While DSi could haven´t been already hacked completely, it doesn´t mean there´s a way 3DS wouldn´t be hacked anyways.

Be positive, just that.


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## Omega_2 (Oct 1, 2010)

regnad said:
			
		

> It's like you don't own the console, you're just renting it. It ultimately belongs to Nintendo.


So, then that sword I bought from that smith is still his?  15,000 gil is a pretty high rental fee if you ask me. :\


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## Fat D (Oct 1, 2010)

Are those not the same "sophisticated anti-piracy measures" we have seen on the Wii? We all see how that went. Bring on the 3DS homebrew launchers, SD loaders and updaters.


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## ShadowLink92 (Oct 1, 2010)

There are some good points and bad points to this.

The good ones: People will actually buy the games, they wouldn't need to go buying flashcards everytime there was a new system/update.

The bad ones: Some people might try to crack this and make more flashcards, flashcard owners might not be able to enjoy it very much.


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## thedicemaster (Oct 1, 2010)

Searinox said:
			
		

> "Spotpass mode is a new feature where the 3DS will seek out wifi hospots and automatically download content while in sleep mode."
> 
> They can't do that. They can't make a device that automatically connects to open wifi networks without the user's consent. It'll cause a number of issues including ppl with wifi connections concerned of devices unauthorizedly connecting to them.


people who are concerned about unauthorized connections on their wifi should put a password on it!


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## BlueStar (Oct 1, 2010)

How about people who don't like connecting to unknown routers and passing information through it when the network owner could be doing whatever they like with it?


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## Supreme Dirt (Oct 1, 2010)

Well, there goes my hopes of making homebrew for the 3DS.

Hopefully the community finds a fix to the auto-updates.


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## Veho (Oct 1, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> How about people who don't like connecting to unknown routers and passing information through it when the network owner could be doing whatever they like with it?


I don't think it's going to be sending any personal information, so even if someone intercepts and reads the data, all they'll get will be your ghost data from Mario Kart and the latest firmware update.


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## Bowser-jr (Oct 1, 2010)

question, if you don't mind me asking, if the 3DS is going down the same path a sony in the result of firmware, could we just put our own CFW on the 3DS like some of us do with the PSPs?


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## heartgold (Oct 1, 2010)

3DS freely inviting itself in secureless wireless access points, I'm sure that isn't right...


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## Shebang (Oct 1, 2010)

Shoot. The DS and the WII were money printing machines, they want to get back to that to make pirating a bit harder.

Well I don't want to miss the comfort of my 8 GB SD card and the cheats. Neither can be done with the originals so f*ck you Nintendo


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## antwill (Oct 1, 2010)

Don't worry guys, geohots promising a hack for it, you'll just have to not update and wait a few years for it. He said he stopped work on the PS3 when he heard about the 3DS.


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## omatic (Oct 1, 2010)

If I can install my games to the device, then it's not much of a concern to me. I'll hate that I can't easily play fan translations that make it possible to play awesome games that publishers sometimes leave un-localized, and region-locks may be problematic.

My primary concern is that Nintendo will release a firmware update that bricks or otherwise damages 3DS systems, and there's no way to stop or deny the update without physically avoiding accessible wi-fi (which is getting to be nearly impossible in urban areas). At this point, it becomes like a semi-virus.

Now, just imagine if they have 3DS's firmware update EACH OTHER automatically, so when you walk by someone on the street, they transfer a firmware update to you!


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## Gullwing (Oct 1, 2010)

omatic said:
			
		

> If I can install my games to the device, then it's not much of a concern to me. I'll hate that I can't easily play fan translations that make it possible to play awesome games that publishers sometimes leave un-localized, and region-locks may be problematic.
> 
> My primary concern is that Nintendo will release a firmware update that bricks or otherwise damages 3DS systems, and there's no way to stop or deny the update without physically avoiding accessible wi-fi (which is getting to be nearly impossible in urban areas). At this point, it becomes like a semi-virus.
> 
> Now, just imagine if they have 3DS's firmware update EACH OTHER automatically, so when you walk by someone on the street, they transfer a firmware update to you!


Then this would make 3ds users agoraphobics... Oh noes!


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## Catman44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I doubt this would stop piracy. Pirates would find a way to block updates and remove updates from the gamess (i.e. Wii) or install a custom firmware (i.e. PSP).


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## deathking (Oct 1, 2010)

i can just see the ds trying to upgrade while driving in a city or on a train
.01% from 1000 different sources could mean massive write errors to the system


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## abaddon41_80 (Oct 1, 2010)

It has already been said but I am fairly certain that Nintendo cannot make something that automatically connects to unsecured Wifi hotspots without permission.  Besides, even if that is legal, 95% of people have security on their networks nowadays and if you don't give the 3DS the passcode then it can't download the updates.


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## TheDestroyer (Oct 1, 2010)

Meh, this update thing won't work for me since I live in a place where people secure their wi-fi. 3DS won't be able to connect to a secured network doesn't it? Nintendo should provide free internet (like kindles?) for these consoles, now we're talkin.. lol



			
				omatic said:
			
		

> Now, just imagine if they have 3DS's firmware update EACH OTHER automatically, so when you walk by someone on the street, they transfer a firmware update to you!



I've been thinking the same thing, but no worries for me since there's like few to none of my town's people have DS/DSi lol what more for 3DS.. But yea, this is a good way to stop piracy. A good solution would be to walk faster so they won't transfer the data lol.. i dunno..


I would still DL games (i.e. pirate) if the opportunity comes in.


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## Relf (Oct 1, 2010)

The NDS game cartridges holding firmware updates is an awful idea. Many people buy games they truly love and pirate stuff that borders on shovelware or that they would simply not purchase in ordinary circumstances. This just makes it an all or nothing sort of thing, you either must buy all your games or none of them.


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## Hakoda (Oct 1, 2010)

Looks like I'm buying games for this. Sokay, I don't mind for this console cuz its badass.


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## Searinox (Oct 1, 2010)

Here's a proof of concept. It needs a cracked firmware file, Nintendo WFC emulator, a PC and a wireless router. Set up your 3DS' WFC to connect to your home router, but input your PC's local address under DNS instead of your ISP's or the auto-obtain DNS feature.

The 3DS connects to your router but instead of querying a real DNS for the Nintendo WFC IP address, it queries the local computer, at which point the WFC emulator returns the PC's own address as being both the DNS and Nintendo WFC's update address. Once the 3DS is convinced that your PC is the official IP of NWFC, it will try to connect to it. At this point the WFC emulator takes over. It then serves the 3DS with a phony update, which is actually a cracked version of the 3DS firmware, with no region lock and any autoupdates or piracy killers of the sort disabled. The scene could then release regular cracked counterparts of Nintendo's official updates.

Nintendo can't do anything to stop people from tricking their 3DS in this way with any sort of update. The best part about this is that since updates are done via WFC they're fault tollerant and won't brick your console if you interrupt mid-way....... unless the cracked firmware has a flaw in itself.


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## Mbmax (Oct 1, 2010)

New firmware mean new EULA. I doubt they can force an automatic update without asking for the new EULA.


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## Prof. 9 (Oct 1, 2010)

Even if automatically downloading updates is illegal, couldn't they make the system lock certain things down (like games and 3DSWare) when it finds out through SpotPass a new firmware version was released?


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## Codc (Oct 1, 2010)

Eh, this isn't a big deal for pirates.

I'm sure there'll be a fix _à la_ PSP to stop the 3DS from updating automatically. I guess we'll just have to wait a few days/weeks after it comes out.


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## mangaTom (Oct 1, 2010)

Well,I have been pirating my games, I once supported against this method(I think it was already discussed in a previous thread) since it's like "WTF?! Oh crap,oh s**t,%&#[email protected]$^$%^".But then I realized that if piracy continues(probably will),we could get less support from good devs out there meaning low selection of good games since they're afraid of developing high profile games for a piracy infested system.I mean not all devs/publishers out there are like square enix and capcom,which are big companies that could still make up for the damage.Though the I would really like the updates to be user controlled.Maybe this will help me start buying games again cause no matter what others say its worth it,considering the effort during the dev stage(though I would really like demos so I can try it first before buying cause sometimes looks can be deceiving).


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## insidexdeath (Oct 1, 2010)

Well there will be a application/hack to block that update once the 3DS is hacked.


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## Beige (Oct 1, 2010)

Truth be told, I have very high doubts about buying a flashcard for the 3DS even if we get a full-featured one.  I currently have a Blue DSi and a Red DSi XL and the DSi is gonna be traded in after buying the 3DS (or until I hear more about the DSiWare transfer system) to buy a few 3DS games.  I'll still have the XL to use my flashcard with, but I feel that I just don't really want it anymore.


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## Isabelyes (Oct 1, 2010)

Prof. 9 said:
			
		

> Even if automatically downloading updates is illegal, couldn't they make the system lock certain things down (like games and 3DSWare) when it finds out through SpotPass a new firmware version was released?



This. I can totally see this happen.
It'd be legal - more or less - and everyone that hasn't hacked their 3DS would just be like, "Eh, whatever.", and they'd download the update.

Most importantly, however:
What if hacked 3DSes would send out bricking programs to any 3DS that would happen to come in its range?
Note that this isn't meant as a joke. It's been made before, and it's not funny enough to post and risk getting comments like "Dude gtfo be original". 
I'm seriously concerned about this.


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## NinjaMic (Oct 1, 2010)

Uh


good luck with this Nintendo


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## Wintrale (Oct 1, 2010)

sstomouth said:
			
		

> Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will lose sales from me and other pirates. What fags.



One minute, the biggest argument in the defense pirates is "I never would have bought it anyway, so it's not like they're losing a sale" but the second Nintendo bring in a proper anti-piracy measure, it's "Nintendo will definitely lose sales now!". How... Quaint.

If the 3DS proves as hard to crack as the PS3 was, then I'll be happy. I only pirate out of convenience, so the lack of a usable flash card won't really change anything.


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## trumpet-205 (Oct 1, 2010)

This will only accelerate development of flashcarts for 3DS.


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## omgpwn666 (Oct 1, 2010)

It will be a little annoying to not get free games, but if they can pull it off, I'll gladly buy some games.


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## Fat D (Oct 1, 2010)

Wintrale said:
			
		

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If they would not have sold the software anyway, they are at least getting hardware sales if piracy is possible. If it is not, they are getting neither. Then again, I doubt they will eliminate piracy on the system. Nintendo is number one again, so it is not going to be like the gamecube, where cracking took some time.


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## jalaneme (Oct 1, 2010)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> It will be a little annoying to not get free games, but if they can pull it off, I'll gladly buy some games.



or none at all, i don't support game companies who take away our rights sony do it, and now nintendo are taking that route well a big up yours to nintendo, it just shows how messed up this world is.


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## KingAsix (Oct 1, 2010)

Good move but I can easily see this being countered by hackers....Though it is a good move. If I leave my 3DS at the house, its can't automatically connected to my router unless I put in the WEP/WPA key and if I do leave it at the house I won't run the risk of hitting a unprotected hotspot which he could just connect to. 

I really don't care cause I can easily see myself buying games more often this go round.


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## KuRensan (Oct 1, 2010)

and what if I don't connect to my wi fi ?? than it'll impossible to download a new firmware


----------



## Hadrian (Oct 1, 2010)

TheDestroyer said:
			
		

> Nintendo should provide free internet (like kindles?) for these consoles, now we're talkin.. lol


They've publicly spoken about how they admire that idea.


----------



## kirby145 (Oct 1, 2010)

All flashcarts will come with a portable Wifi transmission blocking device... Or a wifi blocking case.


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## Wintrale (Oct 1, 2010)

jalaneme said:
			
		

> or none at all, i don't support game companies who take away our rights sony do it, and now nintendo are taking that route well a big up yours to nintendo, it just shows how messed up this world is.



Yes, it certainly does when someone spouts nonsense like "piracy is our right". We pirate because we're either cheap or poor, not because it's our right. It's Nintendo's right to stop us pirating - it isn't our right to stop them from stopping us from pirating. Nintendo receive practically no benefits whatsoever from pirates, regardless of the nonsense people will spread to try to make it sound like piracy is more beneficial than it is detrimental. Everyone who pirates games is a thief, so stop trying to make us sound like we're Robin bloody Hood. 'Cause we ain't. Stop acting so damn proud of the fact that you're a pirate. There's nothing to be proud of.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 1, 2010)

_Mr Iwata said many people in the past did not updated their system's firmware, so he is looking for new ways to bring updates to the users"_

IE : hackers were smart and didn't update to lose their Flashcart functionality. So we are going to FORCE you to lose it. If an exploit is even released...that is...


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## thebigboss14 (Oct 1, 2010)

I think it won't be so automatic because most of the hotspot sometimes have hard security or need identification and also the download won;t complete if the 3DS it's move to another place or interrupted or things like that. Even thought it sounds like a promising feature I don't think it won't be that great and so self-controlled.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 1, 2010)

Seek01 said:
			
		

> This won't change anything. Add WEP for your house's wifi and don't give the key to your 3DS. Also, is the 3DS always in sleep mode when its not on? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do it if it were off completely.
> 
> This might be a problem for some, but I hardly go by any wifi connection that doesn't have some sort of encryption




then you woulden't be able to go to the 3DStore and download usless Gameboy and GameBoy Color Games (why no advance Nintendo??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) 

or use the web browser 

or play online Wifi


----------



## Amber Lamps (Oct 1, 2010)

It doesn't matter though.  Nintendo is lazy as piss when it comes to anti piracy.  Plus if your 3DS is only accessing your personal wireless throughout its entire lifespan and you don't have it on your allowed list of MAC addresses, this is entirely futile.


----------



## pspunabletohack (Oct 1, 2010)

Now I will not buy a 3DS


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## EJames2100 (Oct 1, 2010)

Make sure there is no "free access" wifi from where you play.

Turn it off, take the battery out if Nintendo are complete cunts while moving about(Tho it shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't stay in 1 place too long).

Problem solved, even though forcing you to download something(that you specifically don't want) is illegal I think.


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## zavlin (Oct 1, 2010)

its funny, not only does this make them look desperate, its an admission that theyr realizing how hackable the 3ds will be.


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## Rydian (Oct 1, 2010)

Seek01 said:
			
		

> This won't change anything. Add WEP for your house's wifi and don't give the key to your 3DS. Also, is the 3DS always in sleep mode when its not on? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do it if it were off completely.
> 
> This might be a problem for some, but I hardly go by any wifi connection that doesn't have some sort of encryptionAs somebody else mentioned, a problem could be avoiding wifi when you go outside.
> 
> ...


Mnhhh, not really.  The wii's architecture prevents most modern anti-piracy methods from being possible on it (see why the wii will never get any better), the DS came out before the common time of updateable firmware (it's almost six years old!), and the DSi couldn't do much since it had to make sure it didn't block legit games as well.

This new system is a new slate for them.


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## Rydian (Oct 1, 2010)

zavlin said:
			
		

> its funny, not only does this make them look desperate,Forcing software updates to play games.
> HM, WHY DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? =D  The same shit done on the wii and other consoles as well as the PSP?
> Yeah.
> 
> QUOTE(zavlin @ Oct 1 2010, 01:42 PM) its an admission that theyr realizing how hackable the 3ds will be.


No, it's called a "preventative measure".


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## Lushay (Oct 1, 2010)

Hm. I might actually be okay with this.


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## Gullwing (Oct 1, 2010)

Eventually someone will come up with a fi.. I really don't mind buying my games until a custom firmware comes up.. Even though Greece's situation is f*cked up


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## Dangy (Oct 1, 2010)

If the 3DS wasn't so expensive, I wouldn't mind buying games. But Nintendo has forced me to side with the pirates on this one.


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## MFDC12 (Oct 1, 2010)

TheDestroyer said:
			
		

> Nintendo should provide free internet (like kindles?) for these consoles, now we're talkin.. lol
> 
> technically internet is not free on it... you pay about a 50 dollar fee (included in the price of the unit). thats why the 'wifi' only unit is 50 bucks cheaper.
> 
> ...



have they even released to prices of games yet? or is everything just speculated


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## XXLANCEXX (Oct 1, 2010)

Some Hackers Gonna Come Up With CFW for this system but i wont be using it 
Im Buying Certain Games Like SSFIV,RE series,TOA if it comes here,Kid Icarus,LOZ OOT,and Paper Mario


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## jalaneme (Oct 1, 2010)

MFDC12 said:
			
		

> have they even released to prices of games yet? or is everything just speculated



we know the prices will be high, it's a brand new console and with that comes high prices.


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## krzym1 (Oct 1, 2010)

Kinda funny how 99% ppl in this topic say that they dont/wont pirate while under some DS releases there are over 9000 post like "downloading it now" lololo.

It's not really a big problem. Even teh impossible to hack PS3 got cracked. It might be even better if 3DS gets hacked like few months after release so there will be more interesting games, and the hardware will already drop prices on dem ebayz and sht...


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## t^2 (Oct 1, 2010)

If Nintendo really thinks that non-user-approved auto-updates are the solution to piracy on the 3DS, they're sadly mistaken.


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## abaddon41_80 (Oct 1, 2010)

Even if the updates do block flashcarts and you cannot stop the 3DS from updating, pirates are just going to find some way around the anti-piracy measures just like they have with the DSi.  This is really not a big deal


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## AmitZ (Oct 1, 2010)

Before I start my post I have to say that here in GBAtemp i'm usually a lurker. I rarely, rarely post something, but piracy is something that really anger me, and I thought I should finally hear my voice.

I really hope that the 3DS won't be hacked. That will stop all those damn parasite pirate who steal and leech off people hard work.
I mean, it's really sad to see how common piracy has gotten and how it impact sales and, more importantly, how it discourages developers from releasing good games instead of quick buck shovelwere (see: Wii).

Up until recently I was a pirate even though I did have money to buy games (And games here cost quite a bit, even imported), but I didn't buy games claiming I had "Better use for the money". About 10 months ago I was recruited to the army, as it is mandatory here in Israel. When you're in the army you get each month a very very low salary (~700 NIS which is roughly $200 a month) and even despite the low paycheck, or even because of it, I decided that I will not pirate anymore. True, I don't get to play every game I want, but games that I really want to play, I import and play them. There's just something really rewarding in playing a game you know you earned with your own sweat and money.

That being said, something that really make me angery is people who come up with that sad, sad argument that they pirate because "They don't have money". OK, you don't have money? DON'T BUY IT! definitely don't pirate it, because if you pirate it, it's like you essenitally STEAL it. Say what you want, but if you were at a gaming store and saw a game you want, but you didn't have the money for it, would you steal it? Of course not. Then what so different in piracy? Well, that simple. It's just the fact that it's it like the rest of the internet and particulary 4chan, the fact that in the internet you're anonymous and no one can "see" you, know who you are or know what are you doing, making it so much mentally easier to downloaded a game from the comfortness of your own house. Not to mention it's so damn easy, simple and cheap to pirate.

If the 3DS won't be hacked, or in a worse scanrio, will be hacked but will be very hard and/or expensive to hack, it will force a lot of pirates to buy games, thus raising sales, or in other cases, when people still refuse to buy games, it will make them stop playing completely, thus at least they're not using something they didn't PAY for.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2010)

When will they learn that hacker's will always win? You can not stop them. You can slow them down and make it more difficult but hackers will prevail. Just like pirates will keep pirating no matter what.


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 1, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Mr Iwata said many people in the past did not updated their system's firmware, so he is looking for new ways to bring updates to the users.



Because they gave us no reason to. There was no added features or anything like that.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 1, 2010)

AmitZ said:
			
		

> Before I start my post I have to say that here in GBAtemp i'm usually a lurker. I rarely, rarely post something, but piracy is something that really anger me, and I thought I should finally hear my voice.
> 
> I really hope that the 3DS won't be hacked. That will stop all those damn parasite pirate who steal and leech off people hard work.
> I mean, it's really sad to see how common piracy has gotten and how it impact sales and, more importantly, how it discourages developers from releasing good games instead of quick buck shovelwere (see: Wii).
> ...



QFT

I agree....if the 3DS is hacked too soon then developers will start to pull out like developers did with the Sony PSP and the Sega Dreamcast (Sony killed the Dreamcast..ANYWAY)

I don't agree is with the fanboy targeted price of $300-$250


wait a few years like the DS when it gets stale and shitty shovelware is released like now.


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## shakirmoledina (Oct 1, 2010)

havent we seen updates coming everytime which override the firmware patches?
it is possible tht the flashcarts will also give quick updates to overcome these AP

EDIT: Let me ask you this question Amitz
If you were selling stationary and before I buy it, you tell me that you have to only use it for writing books on games... wouldnt it be correct to say that since you have kept a condition for the usage of this product then also i should impose a condition on how you should use the money i gave you in EXCHANGE for this product?
what is buying and selling? it means a person exchanges his product for someone else's which in this case is money. If I give you full authority to do whatever you wish to do with the money then also you should do the same (even unintentionally)?

Anyway its just a thought, not necessary for you to accept it brother


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## t^2 (Oct 1, 2010)

AmitZ said:
			
		

> Before I start my post I have to say that here in GBAtemp i'm usually a lurker. I rarely, rarely post something, but piracy is something that really anger me, and I thought I should finally hear my voice.
> 
> I really hope that the 3DS won't be hacked. That will stop all those damn parasite pirate who steal and leech off people hard work.
> I mean, it's really sad to see how common piracy has gotten and how it impact sales and, more importantly, how it discourages developers from releasing good games instead of quick buck shovelwere (see: Wii).
> ...


I don't think there's a single possible situation that could occur to make me think "gee, Nintendo really sure could use more of my money!" I mean, the third-party support on the 3DS is going to be huge granted, but there's a happy medium between pirating and paying. A lot of companies really aren't being hurt at all by pirating (Nintendo, The Pokemon Company, etc.), sure they're making a bit less money, but they're still sweating gold from their pores when you take into account how much they charge and the ratio of pirates to purchasers. I don't feel bad about downloading Wii Sports Resort after I shell out $300 for the system, plus another $200 in peripherals to Nintendo, and I don't think anyone else should either.

When you're talking about third-party games from developers that are barely covering their costs, it becomes a different story. In which case I 100% agree that they deserve my money. However, I'm not going to pay for a game that I'm not going to enjoy, and pirating gives me the option to try it before I buy it. If it wasn't for pirating they would be losing my purchase, and I know for a fact that there are a lot of others like me.

There's also homebrew to consider, and I wouldn't even _have_ a Wii if the homebrew scene wasn't so massive. I'm currently saving up for a second one so I can have one for another floor, so there's ~$800 Nintendo can thank homebrew for. I know many people who wouldn't have a Wii/DSi if it wasn't for homebrew, so Nintendo is essentially profiting from it in a way.

Bottom line is, people know they're stealing when they pirate. They do it anyway, just like people who steal from stores do _that_ anyway. Other consumers shouldn't have to suffer because of them; and I know that when I shell out $300 for a system, I better be able to do whatever the hell I want with it within its capabilities.


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## TM2-Megatron (Oct 1, 2010)

monaug5 said:
			
		

> I think it is a good move.
> 
> It is time that these game companies start to cash in from the labour of creating what we pirates have taken for free.



lol, really?  They've been cashing in all along; it's well established that the estimates of loss due to piracy are grossly exaggerated and inaccurate.  The vast majority of pirates would never actually buy all the games they pirate... maybe 2%-5% of them.


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## Rydian (Oct 1, 2010)

t^2 said:
			
		

> If Nintendo really thinks that non-user-approved auto-updates are the solution to piracy on the 3DS, they're sadly mistaken.Since you're claiming it won't work and there's a better way, why don't you explain yourself?  I'm certainly interested in hearing it.
> 
> QUOTE(AmitZ @ Oct 1 2010, 03:23 PM) definitely don't pirate it, because if you pirate it, it's like you essenitally STEAL it. Say what you want, but if you were at a gaming store and saw a game you want, but you didn't have the money for it, would you steal it? Of course not. Then what so different in piracy?


The fact that nothing is stolen.  Durrrrrr.

If you take something from a shop, the shop loses that item.  The shop no longer has that item because of your actions.  You have deprived that shop of the item.

Not so with piracy.


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## t^2 (Oct 1, 2010)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Since you're claiming it won't work and there's a better way, why don't you explain yourself?  I'm certainly interested in hearing it.


I'm not claiming there's a better way, I'm simply claiming that this won't work. I know enough about programming to know that a workaround can be created for auto-updating. Flashcard manufacturers can also update their firmware to workaround new updates, much like they do now.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 1, 2010)

How do you beat a hacker? Simple, you form a team consisting of very capable hackers to find ways to hack into the system while keeping the discoveries confidential, then fixing the problem before anyone can attempt to use the possible openings.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 1, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> How do you beat a hacker? Simple, you form a team consisting of very capable hackers to find ways to hack into the system while keeping the discoveries confidential, then fixing the problem before anyone can attempt to use the possible openings.



say hello to GeoHot and Dark_aleX for me okay?


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## ZeWarrior (Oct 1, 2010)

AmitZ said:
			
		

> I rarely, rarely post something, but piracy is something that really anger me



Stopped reading right there, Sorry bud, but you're in the wrong forum then. This entire forum is full of pirates, which 99% of them admit, even though GBATemp doesn't officially, endorse piracy.

EDIT: And towards the title: What if someone never connected their 3DS to the internet?


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## Veho (Oct 1, 2010)

ZeWarrior said:
			
		

> EDIT: And towards the title: What if someone never connected their 3DS to the internet?


Game cartridges will also contain firmware updates.


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## ZeWarrior (Oct 1, 2010)

Patched ROMs FTW?


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## Nollog (Oct 1, 2010)

Rydian said:
			
		

> AmitZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, by pirating you're saving gamestop some money, but costing game studios money.


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## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2010)

...even though I would LOVE a flashcart for the 3ds. I have to say, due to the DS's massive 8/10 piracy rate, I don't blame Nintendo.


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## wildfire95 (Oct 1, 2010)

It will have automatic firmware updates for sure amongst other things, probably a system similar to the Wii's connect24.


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## miigo (Oct 1, 2010)

damn you nintendo. overpriced games here i come


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## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2010)

miigo said:
			
		

> damn you nintendo. overpriced games here i come


uh, appreciate that those 'overpriced games' are their ONLY source of income first,yes?


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## berlinka (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm laughing hard here.

All I can say is when Nintendo products get unhackable, it's the end for me. No way I'm going to pay loads of money for games. 3D is nice, but still the novelty eventually wears off (just like the DS touch screen did) 

Plus the fact that I've got hundreds of DS and Wii games yet unfinished (many even barely touched) makes it even less appealing. 

The 3DS really has to come up with better things than 3D or just plain very good games. I mean the 8bit nintendo had very good games too, as did the SNES and N64. 

So in a way I hope the 3DS will not be a must for me. I finally can play all the games I never had the time for, because of all the new shit the constantly comes out.


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## Seicomart (Oct 1, 2010)

$300 for a system you cant use to play wonderful pirated games on? 

Nintendo you have failed me. 

No free games = not worth purchasing!

All you buyfags can go lick a dogs ass till it bleeds!


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## ShinyLatios (Oct 1, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> So, you know all these grave warnings when you update something's firmware about not powering off your system lest you end up with it half installed and an expensive brick? If it's doing this stuff in the background as you pass hotspots, what's to say at that point you're not gonna turn off the system or run out of battery after walking around all day with a constantly seeking wifi mode which you can't turn off?



this will suck. like you said, there'll be some bricks caused by this. Firetruck you Nintendo, you're gonna get problems for this in Europe!


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## Giga_Gaia (Oct 1, 2010)

Just have the wifi switch constantly off and when you don't use it, have the system completely off. Can't update and use wifi if it's completely turned off


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 1, 2010)

Giga_Gaia said:
			
		

> Just have the wifi switch constantly off and when you don't use it, have the system completely off. Can't update and use wifi if it's completely turned off



Games will likely come with firmware updates, ala PSP UMD.


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## _Chaz_ (Oct 1, 2010)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Giga_Gaia said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was hacked, was it not?


----------



## Nah3DS (Oct 1, 2010)

fan translations are doomed


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 1, 2010)

_Chaz_ said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was. Which, I don't see the point in this. Sure it will combat some piracy... but as my grandfather always said, if one man put it together, another can take it apart.

It's only a matter of time before those get hacked as well. Nothing is hack proof. But apparently Nintendo seems to believe so.


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## AmitZ (Oct 1, 2010)

@shakirmoledina
I didn't say you can't do as you please with your product. You CAN do whatever you want with your product as long as it's LEGAL. Stealing, as far as I know, at least, is illegal.


@t^2
So basically you're justifying your piracy because "Companies have to much money"? Stealing is still stealing whether you're stealing from the poor or stealing from the rich.
And about homebrew, let's face it, most people who hack their consoles, hack it for piracy. Few are the people that actually use it for homebrew and hombrew only, or people who "try before you buy" it.


@Rydian
I was just hoping someone will come with this stupid claim.
Stealing can be a lot of things. Say someone killed another man, he essentially "stole" his right to live, don't you agree?
True, Piracy isn't exactly stealing, but it bears the same effect on the developers.
By pirating you aren't hurting the developers? of course you do. you didn't buy their games and therefore made them lose money.
While it is true that when you pirate you only hurt the developers theoretically, and there's the chance that if you couldn't pirate it you wouldn't have bought it anyway, but in most cases pirating comes over buying the game, and thus you're still hurting the developers.
When you pirate you're not stealing from the store, rather, you're stealing directly of the compay.  Game pirated= game not bought= no money for the developers, even though you USE their product anyway.

@ZeWarrior
True enough, but even if I can only convince one man, that'll be enough.


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## Kane91z (Oct 1, 2010)

While I am not the biggest supporter of piracy, it's not stealing. Stealing means you take something from someone else and they no longer have it. Piracy is copying a bought product, there is no taking away. Personally I like to hack my devices and do neat things with them as a hobby. Another thing I do not consider piracy is using an emulator to play games you already own on another system.  Virtual console is just a trick to get you to buy something multiple times.


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 1, 2010)

I don't blame Nintendo for this. 
After all, I don't really care. Sure, I'll pirate if I were able to but that isn't a deal-breaker for me. I wasn't planning on pirating it, anyways. Couldn't this be solved with a CFW, anyways?


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## Nollog (Oct 1, 2010)

Kane91z said:
			
		

> While I am not the biggest supporter of piracy, it's not stealing. Stealing means you take something from someone else and they no longer have it. Piracy is copying a bought product, there is no taking away.


Semantics.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 1, 2010)

Kane91z said:
			
		

> While I am not the biggest supporter of piracy, it's not stealing. Stealing means you take something from someone else *and they no longer have it*. Piracy is copying a bought product, there is no taking away.



Funny, all the definitions of stealing that I looked up do not have that bolded part included. Not saying the result doesn't include that, but it does not limit it to just that result.

He's stealing 2nd!
No he's not! The base is still there!
Then why do we call it stealing?


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## Kane91z (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm pretty sure using a baseball slang analogy is even worse than my argument - and in that sense is it illegal to steal 2nd?


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## t^2 (Oct 2, 2010)

AmitZ said:
			
		

> So basically you're justifying your piracy because "Companies have to much money"? Stealing is still stealing whether you're stealing from the poor or stealing from the rich.
> And about homebrew, let's face it, most people who hack their consoles, hack it for piracy. Few are the people that actually use it for homebrew and hombrew only, or people who "try before you buy" it.


Yes, that is exactly how I'm justifying my piracy. I don't feel bad about not paying for games from Nintendo because in my mind, they're stealing from me. They overcharge for everything, and the amount of money that you have to spend on peripherals is ridiculous. You may not agree with it, but that's just a difference of opinion. I buy the games that I believe are worth the coin, and I'm thankful for piracy because it allows me to distinguish which are and which aren't before I spend the money.

You're correct though, most people who hack their consoles do it for piracy. I just don't believe that people who don't should suffer. I'm also a firm believer in that if I pay for something, I should be able to use the hardware to its full potential.


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## mysticwaterfall (Oct 2, 2010)

Not reading all 10 pages of this, so some (or more like all) of this has already been mentioned. But my thoughts...


-As far as I understand it you can turn off the Wifi with a switch. If nothing else, not everybody even has public WiFi around them, I certainly don't except for my home router.

-Nintendo puts updates on Wii games, but certainly hasn't stopped people from playing the games without updates. A lot of people are still on 3.2 or 3.4. Granted, you sometimes have to install some IOSes, so this might require a wad manager of sorts for the 3DS, and/or really good AKAIO3D updates. Unless Ninteno starts requiring certain firmware for certain games, and even that could be gotten around.

-Even when people have updated, there are things like TBR, etc. that unsecure the firmware so you can again play things like NSMB.


Now, understandably, on the Wii we have complete and total access and that is unlikely on the 3DS, so the above is not a perfect analogy. But even with our limited access to the DSi, they still haven't blocked DS mode flashcarts on it after 2 attempts. So, I think it will not be as foolproof as Nintendo thinks. So we can still sit back and play the N64 and VB emulators on the 3DS in 2 years or so, which is of course, the really important thing. 

(And yes, I was kidding about the AKAIO 3D)


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

Kane91z said:
			
		

> While I am not the biggest supporter of piracy, it's not stealing. Stealing means you take something from someone else and they no longer have it. Piracy is copying a bought product, there is no taking away. Personally I like to hack my devices and do neat things with them as a hobby. Another thing I do not consider piracy is using an emulator to play games you already own on another system.  Virtual console is just a trick to get you to buy something multiple times.



lol.. WHAT?! lol.


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## chrisrlink (Oct 2, 2010)

prowler_ said:
			
		

> Cortador said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HAHAHA watch nintendo get sued for this one if it was me who had an illegal connection i'd say "blame nintendo i dont have wifi it auto connects for updating -shows the cop the features-


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## Mikehoncho16 (Oct 2, 2010)

Simple solution people, I shall now reveal it!

*drumroll* patpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpat

TURN OFF YOUR DS WHEN YOUR NOT PLAYING IT!


----------



## sstomouth (Oct 2, 2010)

zeromac said:
			
		

> sstomouth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol. now I see what I did wrong.


----------



## KingVamp (Oct 2, 2010)

Sense my bad and good views was already said about privacy, all I got to say is,if it start the update without you knowing and the 3DS power goes out and you may be mess up....

Edit: Will it be like the psp were you turn it out and then resume the game?


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

Mikehoncho16 said:
			
		

> Simple solution people, I shall now reveal it!
> 
> *drumroll* patpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpat
> 
> TURN OFF YOUR DS WHEN YOUR NOT PLAYING IT!



You know what, I question this too. I doubt it's possible to update when the power is off.

But then again, there's also the problem where, say if I walk near a starbucks for 10 seconds, my 3DS starts updating, then I walk away/pass it, does the 3DS freeze and not work, does it continuously try to update even if the battery dies or what.


----------



## fgghjjkll (Oct 2, 2010)

To be honest with all of you, I'm surprised no one has brought this up.

I'm sure all of you guys have seen APs by your friendly neighbourhood ISPs.
Around my area, I have two APs from two well known ISPs.
Optus (SSID: Optus******* WPA2-PSK encrypted)
and Telstra (SSID: Bigpond******* WPA2-PSK encrypted again)

All Nintendo has to do is to sign agreements with your ISPs to automatically connect to your local ISP-run APs to download the firmware updates.
But then again, there is also a wifi switch on the Nintendo 3DS. Just switch it off?

Also to you "Anti-Pirates", Some people just do not want to bother with a fucking huge waiting time from supplier to home. Sure, i pirated Hatsune Miku Project DIVA 2nd before it came out, but i also pre-ordered it from PlayAsia. It came 4-5 good months later after many emails and stuff like that. The original game got lost in the mail but eventually came to me.

Also, some people like to try before they buy. You can try a game released in the US and if you like it, buy it when it is avaliable in you region!

Just my two cents.


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## DeMoN (Oct 2, 2010)

Hah, they are basically conceding that 3DS flash carts will exist.  
This is good news to me.  And I'm sure there will be some way to disable the auto-updating.
Plus, I'm sure that forcibly automatically connecting to unknown networks violates some FCC regulation out there.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 2, 2010)

Mikehoncho16 said:
			
		

> Simple solution people, I shall now reveal it!
> 
> *drumroll* patpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpat
> 
> TURN OFF YOUR DS WHEN YOUR NOT PLAYING IT!




maybe they won't LET you completely turn it off...

and maybe they won't give you the option of taking out the battery...ahem...APPLE.

and MAYBE turning off Wifi is only for YOUR access...maybe Wifi access is on all the time for them...


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## bassgs 435 (Oct 2, 2010)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> Mikehoncho16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so it has to consume power even if i want to save it? and one thing . I can't import games and so piracy is the only resource for me to play super robot taisen. bring it here to spain then. same with megaten. and tales of. oh of course, in spanish . since fan translations are impossible and we want everyone to understand the game. if not, piracy is the only source. oh and what if you're taking your 3DS on a plane trip. can't you shut it off so the thing won't interfere with the plane's equipment. I don't like the looks of this AT ALL


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 2, 2010)

bassgs 435 said:
			
		

> stanleyopar2000 said:
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I agree more...

Super Robot Taisen W deserves to get a fucking release outside of Japan

not the stupid americanized shit OG Saga Endless Frontier bullshit or whatever that WE got


MORE TEKNOMAN, FULL METAL PANIC, GUNDAM and GIANT ROBOTS DAMNIT!

oh...Tales of the Tempest for DS?.....SUCKED.

on topique - the 3DS might not have a complete shutoff...I think the PS2 or PS3 never shuts off does it?...unless you completely pull the plug


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## bassgs 435 (Oct 2, 2010)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> bassgs 435 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


use the switch they have at the back and I'm concerned about 3DS in planes if the WI-FI has to be on. I hope they think about that  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . It can be dangerous a device that looks all the time for WI-fi hotspots in a plane


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## bassgs 435 (Oct 2, 2010)

delte this


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 2, 2010)

bassgs 435 said:
			
		

> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
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sure you can turn it off...but can u turn it off REALLY?

like "turning off" location services for iPhone or any iDevice...you think apple is really going to give you the freedom to not be tracked?...I think not..

and if they don't get you with the wireless update..

if you buy one of Nintendo's "so called" WORTH BUYING 3DS games....

the update is going to be bundled with it...so your fucked either way....


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## bassgs 435 (Oct 2, 2010)

then what about planes? keep in mind I'm very uninformed about this kind of function . It is the first time I heard about it.


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## BlueJon5 (Oct 2, 2010)

JUST TURN OFF YOUR WIFI


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## bassgs 435 (Oct 2, 2010)

BlueJon5 said:
			
		

> JUST TURN OFF YOUR WIFI


then I wouldn't have internet. simpler. don't give the wep password to the 3DS. If they put passwords or routers I don't think it's legal to put a built-in passqord cracker on the machine


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> sure you can turn it off...but can u turn it off REALLY?
> 
> like "turning off" location services for iPhone or any iDevice...you think apple is really going to give you the freedom to not be tracked?...I think not..
> 
> ...


That's what Sony said about the updates on the UMD's, but those were hacked.

Nothing is hack proof. Everything is available to be worked on so it can be hacked. It's just a matter of time.


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## MG4M3R (Oct 2, 2010)

I just want to continue pirating DS games in 3DS, like we do on the DSi.

Original games are really expensive here in Brazil, so I would end up buying a maximum of 3 games each semester.

The DS games would help to give variety.


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## kudaku (Oct 2, 2010)

not that I want to pirate, but the system will definitely have region protection.  so expect MANY MANY good games to not come to the west.  
Many Atlus games won't be coming here unfortunately.   

It'll be impossible to play unless you buy two 3DS's.  Flashcarts are good to get past region protection.  AND importing is around 3x the cost.  If i wanted to play Pokemon Black in my native language, I would have to import costing me at LEAST $100...


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

MG4M3R said:
			
		

> I just want to continue pirating DS games in 3DS, like we do on the DSi.
> 
> Original games are really expensive here in Brazil, so I would end up buying a maximum of 3 games each semester.
> 
> The DS games would help to give variety.



We all know what's going to happen. If you get caught and use that excuse whether it's real or not. Nintendo and the legal team will just say either "Oh well, why should you get special treatment. Pay full price." Or they'll say "Then you shouldn't own a console in the first place."


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## antwill (Oct 2, 2010)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> MG4M3R said:
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Before or after he gets slapped with a multi-million dollar fine?


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 2, 2010)

antwill said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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ha ha ha!

like that one bloke on here who bragged he leaked New Super Mario Bros Wii...even though the game topped the charts and sold millions for months...Nintendo still said they lost money. 

bullshit


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

antwill said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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Knowing Nintendo... I'd wager slapping him with a multi-million dollar fine. Then sue him again for court fees.


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## antwill (Oct 2, 2010)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> antwill said:
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Care to back up your claim that they didn't lose money with statistics?


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## Pavichokche (Oct 2, 2010)

I highly doubt they can FORCE it on you. I mean, you can just reset your wifi setting every night or turn it off (completely) somehow. I don't see Nintendo taking this seriously, just like they never took the DSi seriously


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 2, 2010)

Kane91z said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure using a baseball slang analogy is even worse than my argument - and in that sense is it illegal to steal 2nd?



You thought I was serious with that? But my point before still stands. Stealing is not limited to when someone loses something when another takes it from them.


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## mangaTom (Oct 2, 2010)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> sure you can turn it off...but can u turn it off REALLY?
> 
> like "turning off" location services for iPhone or any iDevice...you think apple is really going to give you the freedom to not be tracked?...I think not..
> 
> ...


Um...if you really don't like the way how the system/console works..then..don't buy it,um simple as that...if you really....hate it that much...since we can't pirate games on it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wait for a piracy-friendly console....um maybe one will come out,....I guess?


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## ecko (Oct 2, 2010)

stanleyopar2000 said:
			
		

> sure you can turn it off...but can u turn it off REALLY?
> 
> like "turning off" location services for iPhone or any iDevice...you think apple is really going to give you the freedom to not be tracked?...I think not..
> 
> ...


the wii also had those updates on some of the games.
yet you can bypass it with i.e priiloader.

what im saying is that there will be a way to bypass ths feature.
it's just gonna take some time for the hackers among us to find it


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## antwill (Oct 2, 2010)

ecko said:
			
		

> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
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You'd also need to hope nintendo aren't constantly updating their defences from the start...


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## chyyran (Oct 2, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> How do you beat a hacker? Simple, you form a team consisting of very capable hackers to find ways to hack into the system while keeping the discoveries confidential, then fixing the problem before anyone can attempt to use the possible openings.


And that is what I would do if I ran nintendo.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 2, 2010)

ecko said:
			
		

> stanleyopar2000 said:
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but. you could turn off WiiConnect24 if you so choose.

3DS won't give you the option.


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## Rydian (Oct 2, 2010)

The only argument for "piracy is the same as theft" hinges on the assumption that piracy equals a lost sale.  That's false.

*Piracy is not theft.  They're not even in the same category of law, theft is under criminal law where piracy is under civil law.*


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 2, 2010)

I hope Nintendo bricks every 3DS that gets modified to allow piracy.


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## DigitalDeviant (Oct 2, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> I hope Nintendo bricks every 3DS that gets modified to allow piracy.



thats not going to happen, nintendo will at worst ban people from playing online, and we all know how robust their online service is...


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> I hope Nintendo bricks every 3DS that gets modified to allow piracy.



It's not going to happen. As good as Nintendo's coders are, there is always someone who's just as good, if not better. And someone who is safer to understand what's good, and what's bad.

It's simply not going to happen my friend. Unless there's a little dynamite inside that blows up when a certain thing is pulled apart as soon as unscrewing or putting weird things in the cart slot.


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## Bladexdsl (Oct 2, 2010)

kiss flashcarts goodbye than their a nuisance anyway pretty much everytime a game comes out you need a new update to it and it usually takes them a few days sometimes more in the meantime other peeps are playing it while your stuck there just looking at it. doesnt bother me 1 bit since i'll be importing ALL my games i'm not gonna get stuck with a ds waiting for games to be released months later like it is here!


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## NinjaMic (Oct 2, 2010)

I get the sneaking suspicion that these "good piracy sux" people are gigantic hypocrites.



But thats just me


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## fgghjjkll (Oct 2, 2010)

NinjaMic said:
			
		

> I get the sneaking suspicion that these "good piracy sux" people are gigantic hypocrites.
> 
> 
> 
> But thats just me


If you are just going to pirate every fucking game and never buy one, then yes. I do agree that is very selfish. However, there are the small group of pirates including me who do buy what they like or play a pirated version while they wait for the real copy to arrive.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Oct 2, 2010)

NinjaMic said:
			
		

> I get the sneaking suspicion that these "good piracy sux" people are gigantic hypocrites.
> 
> 
> 
> But thats just me




you're probably right


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## Reploid (Oct 2, 2010)

I'will just disable my wifi.


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## Apex (Oct 2, 2010)

I can't help but scoff at all the anti-piracy talk in this thread. HELLO, LOOK WHERE WE ARE. Please, someone raise your hand if you have a flashcart and have not pirated; I'm waiting. People acting like sstomouth is some kind of idiot because he thinks people wont buy the 3DS because it can't be pirated on? Well, looks like they at least lost two hardware sales potentially. If you're against the idea of piracy, leave GBAtemp; seriously, get the hell out, that's what the core of this community is. People whining over piracy here obviously don't have bills to pay, obviously have never had to pay for their own college and obviously don't pay for their own material possessions.

It's not always the case that piracy hurts software sale; Nintendo will not receive software commission from me, only hardware, and only if I can get the software for less than $0.01.


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## BlueJon5 (Oct 2, 2010)

alright so be prepared to take out the battery put it back have the wifi off for a min and disable the wifi from the 3DS (call for drastic measures)...
WAIT...isnt there a wifi switch on the side of the 3DS AS SEEN ON THE JAPANESE COMMERCIAL!!!


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2010)

Why wouldn't there be a way to turn off wifi? All the DS installments had it. Just had to go to the menu.

That seems to be no different than the PSP WLAN switch..


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## BlueJon5 (Oct 2, 2010)

yup


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 2, 2010)

Apex said:
			
		

> I can't help but scoff at all the anti-piracy talk in this thread. HELLO, LOOK WHERE WE ARE. Please, someone raise your hand if you have a flashcart and have not pirated; I'm waiting. People acting like sstomouth is some kind of idiot because he thinks people wont buy the 3DS because it can't be pirated on? Well, looks like they at least lost two hardware sales potentially. If you're against the idea of piracy, leave GBAtemp; seriously, get the hell out, that's what the core of this community is. People whining over piracy here obviously don't have bills to pay, obviously have never had to pay for their own college and obviously don't pay for their own material possessions.
> 
> It's not always the case that piracy hurts software sale; Nintendo will not receive software commission from me, only hardware, and only if I can get the software for less than $0.01.



Sorry, but you can't rationalize the "need" to pirate because it isn't something you "need" in the first place. It's a "want", a "luxury", a "non-essential", and you are taking advantage of hard working people who produce the products they spent their time and money to make by expecting them for free; working people like you and me who have bills to pay, families to support, lives to live. It's not one or two people that are trying to get stuff for free. It's hundreds of thousands and more made up from thousands of communities, each a drop in a pond, leading to millions lost; millions that could have gone towards future projects and stability in companies in these hard economic times. The more informed people get about piracy, the more piracy will occur, and that *WILL* lead to potential consequences.

The need to pirate is worse than a beggar stealing bread. They can't afford it, but they must have it to survive, and they are willing to deprive someone else of the work put into it for their own needs. But you don't need video games to survive, but you are still willing to take what you feel you "must" have when you don't need it at all. That really makes you worse than a thief, and I hope their counter-measures against 3DS piracy holds out long enough for developers to earn what they deserve.


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## Veho (Oct 2, 2010)

Apex said:
			
		

> Well, looks like they at least lost two hardware sales potentially.


And Nintendo (and any other gaming company) will gladly lose those hardware sales in exchange for a hack-proof system. A handful of whiny pirates versus several million people who would pirate if they could but will still buy the console even if it's unhackable, and pay for games. A few hundred dollars in hardware sales versus several million dolars in software sales. _*Gee, tough one, I'll have to think about it.*_


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## CJL18 (Oct 2, 2010)

all nintendos doing is making it where the hackers want to hack it more. There are basically saying i Dare you to hack it, and they got some smart mother ******* out there.  THis will be hacked might take a while, but it will be hacked nothing is unhackable if it's made by man it can be hacked by man


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 2, 2010)

...its just going to result in CFWs, isnt it?

CFWs and update blocks. though with all the money i saved on the ds, i might happily buy some more games this time (still bought at least 20 games on the ds for my siblings)


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## injected11 (Oct 2, 2010)

BlueJon5 said:
			
		

>


I was just about to look for that very image, and you saved me the trouble. Damn people are stupid and love to drive themselves into a frenzied panic over absolutely nothing.


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## Apex (Oct 2, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> Apex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I implore you to point out once where I stated it was a necessity to pirate. I *want* to play games, and I *want* to buy the hardware, I don't *want* choose between something actually important, and a videogame. I also beg you to point out where I said it would hurt there sales overall besides two hardware sales? I was criticizing the fact people were discounting sstomouth for him saying this would persuade certain people from purchasing the system. Guess what? I was right, so was he. Hmmm, nice points too bad they were not relevant in the least bit to my passage. Next time you want to look cool, say something useful to the topic at hand. In the mean time, Baaaaah sheep Baaah.


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## jan777 (Oct 2, 2010)

Fuck this. 

Why must every single topic about antipiracy have to become a warzone for pirates and antipirates?


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## BlueStar (Oct 2, 2010)

The bulk of the profit for console producers is the games.  They're not going to shed a tear if you don't buy their console to pirate games on it, at launch it basically means there'll be an extra unit to sell to someone who is going to buy games.


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## rafao (Oct 2, 2010)

Brazil don't have wi-fi .


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 2, 2010)

Apex said:
			
		

> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
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> ...



You *want* to play the games, but in order to play them, you *need* to have them in your possession, which means you either need to purchase them, or you need to pirate them. Since your posts clearly states that you won't purchase them, your only option is to pirate them. That's where you indirectly stated that it is a necessity to pirate; to fulfill your *want*. Bluestar and Veho have already answered why it would hurt sales. You didn't need to say anything about it, because my remark was a general statement relevant to what I'm was talking about, not a response to any particular person.

And one more thing. If you think about piracy is on-topic with this thread, but anti-piracy isn't, then you need to continue your grazing out in the pasture. A discussion involves opposites. To speak on only one side is speaking propaganda. Whether you think I was trying to be *cool* with what I said is irrelevant.


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## boktor666 (Oct 2, 2010)

Inserting auto update by wi-fi spots? Hold on, so if you don't setup a internet connection, how is it supposed to be legal? If you don't have "wi-fi spot" at home, then it will force it to break in to neighbour networks, if it will be able to at least. (think of the wep key, fixed ip, dns etc.) 

And for auto update: if programmers find out about this auto firmware update, isn't it possible to just remove it by hacking or something? 

I don't think those auto updates will be legal, so cross that one at least, but the game firmware update would be really slyyyy.

I love to see cool games coming up for 3ds!

(and for the ones who like to download games, stick with ndsl/i/xl


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## JPhantom (Oct 2, 2010)

There are a lot of issues with them legally updating from random wifi.  the most they can do is have deals with starbucks, Mcdonalds, etc. to connect to their wifi automatically and even that has legal issues in some areas.  

but I wonder would it be legal for them to have a game autoupdate the system in the background while you are playing without telling you?  I mean if the game informs you in any way even if it doesn't ask permission but lets you know it is happening people will turn off the system and risk bricking their system rather than update and break their softmod/flashcart


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## Midna (Oct 2, 2010)

If this is explicitly included in the EULA, perhaps even advertised as a feature, then I don't anyone will be able to take them to court for anything.


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## Schicksalsheld (Oct 2, 2010)

Yes the best thing that Nintendo can do, its a lot easier to hack the Firmware if it is on Cartridges, you must only dump one Game with Firmware Update and modifying the ROM


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 2, 2010)

you know, that actually sounds almost... clever


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## trumpet-205 (Oct 2, 2010)

Why do people start to wage war between pirate and anti-pirate?


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## Fabis94 (Oct 2, 2010)

Whatever they do, it's impossible to fully beat piracy or just modding in general (since some people use flashcarts only for homebrew). Maybe not at first, but after some time someone will find away to bypass this.

Also even if you don't connect to WiFi at all, remember that they will put updates in game carts too so you can't play the game without installing the update. But again, the update could be stripped and the rom cracked so it doesn't need the update.


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## iNFiNiTY (Oct 2, 2010)

Of course it was going to have firmware updates all along. It's basically required these days. But even then you can see that the Wii is not secure at all even with it. I have a feeling flashcards will not be the route taken for hacks with the 3DS, at least not alone. Exploits and custom firmware will be more likely. Which is good because then this site will maybe lose some of the idiots who can only work out how to use a shit $10 flashcard and ask dumb questions all the time.


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## vhunter (Oct 2, 2010)

There are people who pirate every game they can get, people who buy every game they want, and peolpe pretty much anywhere in between. Its likely that your not going to change by fighting or otherwise. .At the end of the day fighting about this will only make you waste time and look stupid.


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## CrimzonEyed (Oct 2, 2010)

I can't see the problem.
Many high tech stuff like mobile phones, computer and gaming consoles allready do automatic updates trough internet


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## ShadowNeko003 (Oct 3, 2010)

Start choice for Nintendo, money wise.  But updates without us approving?  I for one, like to know what I am installing.  I mean, remember what happened to the Wii on 4.0?  Normal Wiis got bricked by installing the firmware (even if it was a small percentage) it could happen again.

But I am getting a 3DS anyway.  I just won't program my wireless connection on it.


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 3, 2010)

CrimzonEyed said:
			
		

> I can't see the problem.
> Many high tech stuff like mobile phones, computer and gaming consoles allready do automatic updates trough internet



It mainly affects people who hack their console or pirate games...


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## tbgtbg (Oct 3, 2010)

There's another issue if it autoconnects to wifi hotspots. In some jurisdictions it's apparently illegal to connect to someone else's wifi network without permission, even if it's unsecured. Can't EULA your way out of that one, Nintendo.

Cite


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 3, 2010)

tbgtbg said:
			
		

> There's another issue if it autoconnects to wifi hotspots. In some jurisdictions it's apparently illegal to connect to someone else's wifi network without permission, even if it's unsecured. Can't EULA your way out of that one, Nintendo.
> 
> Cite



Fraudulent use refers to intentional purposes. The man arrested purposefully drove to the cafe every single day to gain WiFi access without ever going into the cafe, even though he, and the cafe owner, did not know that it was a crime. Unless you are putting yourself into the same position, with the intentional purpose of getting free WiFi, then it would not be considered a crime. If you're walking around a mall while never entering a store, and each store has their own WiFi hotspot, sure, you're getting free WiFi, but you aren't actually using it. The device may be, but you aren't. Also consider this same scenario, but with *every* other auto connect device currently available today. What can they really do about that? It would then be a case about whether auto connecting in general is unlawful, but it isn't.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2010)

Good on you, nintendo.


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## silverbullet1080 (Oct 3, 2010)

jet™ said:
			
		

> Good on you, nintendo.


Not really.  It's not up to Nintendo what firmware I decide to play on.  If I buy a gaming system, I'll decide what goddamn firmware I want to run it on.  If it's an optional update, that's one thing, but it's mildly infuriating to see a company say that they're going to plan on what firmware I run and when it gets installed on the system I purchased.


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## ether2802 (Oct 3, 2010)

If I sell you something telling you that I'm going to auto-update it for you every once in a while, and you still buy it, then you are AGREEING to the EULA, period, there is no "....in Europe that's illegal..", cause the moment you pay for it you have the manual where this agreement is written, so you can disagree to this EULA and return the product, or open your system, damage your WiFi antenna and never being bothered by any type of external contact, I was the same piss off when I bought my car and realized that in the EULA says you CAN'T run above the speed limit, so if I ever want to run faster then I would have to make my own vehicule, comprendes mendez..?? or you are still thinking no one can force you to use the things as they are supouse to be used...??


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 3, 2010)

silverbullet1080 said:
			
		

> jet™ said:
> 
> 
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Then you are purposefully limiting yourself to what you can do on it, and what games you can play. Firmware updates are just that, updates. Fixes bugs. Adds functionality. Many games won't run unless you update to the newest update. The only thing it could "take away" is anything it was not meant to do in the first place, such as piracy (which I'm sure is why you are against this). It is Nintendo's responsibility to ensure their products remain stable, and your responsibility to allow them to do so with products they made that you bought. If something should happen to your system by not updating the firmware, Nintendo would not be responsible for the consequences.


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## silverbullet1080 (Oct 4, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> silverbullet1080 said:
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> 
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That comparison makes little sense, going above the speed limit is illegal, but it's still possible.  The 3DS's problem isn't that is has updates but that it doesn't give me an _option_.


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## fgghjjkll (Oct 4, 2010)

Nintendo has shown that they're not perfect. Even with the release of System Menu 4.0, legitmate un-bootmii'd Wiis were bricked. If Nintendo were more careful, perhaps all this rage against automatic updates wouldn't happen.


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## ShadowSoldier (Oct 4, 2010)

silverbullet1080 said:
			
		

> jet™ said:
> 
> 
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Not if they put something on the warranty or that terms of agreement saying you have to upgrade to the latest firmware the first chance you get..


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## ZetraEX (Oct 4, 2010)

Piracy can be a cause of game quality declining.

And were games back then that cheap? (The age where piracy was not the craze.)

And those people who are saying "screw you Nintendo"... you REALLY don't want them to make games anymore, do you...


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## worlok375 (Oct 4, 2010)

So nintendo will make all 3ds owners guilty of the terrible crime of INTERNET MOOCHING?.....I'll see them in teh courts!


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## klim28 (Oct 4, 2010)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> jalaneme said:
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I sooo agree with Wintrale.

This should be it.


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## mysticwaterfall (Oct 4, 2010)

Big +1 to Wintrale. Nice to see some refreshing honesty instead of all this bs entitlement attitude.


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## Crahlo (Oct 4, 2010)

Omega_2 said:
			
		

> boudincaca said:
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Me too. Other than that, I DON'T HAVE any good Wi-fi internet connexion. What will I do if Nintendo forces Updates? I can't do it. (It's not that I don't want, I'm just not able to.)


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## silverbullet1080 (Oct 4, 2010)

klim28 said:
			
		

> Wintrale said:
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Nintendo should _offer_ updates to combat piracy, they shouldn't _force_ them.l


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## zeric7x (Oct 4, 2010)

Nothing going to stop me from pirating I say! if its not pirated right away I simply will wait into I can download my games for free then..or not buy a 3ds at all...I can understand why people say oh don't pirate support the devs.. I enjoy the games they make I do but at the  same time If I can  download the latest game for free you bet I will!...so I hope that somehow 3ds gets hacked......I'm sure quite a few people disprove of what I said but that's fine....you take your OWN money and go buy your OWN games...because I can not really afford to..lol I can't afford a 3ds probably to begin with so I don't why I'm even making a big deal LOL. I just don't like how people make people who pirate games sound  like were this evil group of people who hate video game devs..I pirate out a necessity because I know I cant not afford to buy all the games I enjoy to play. plus after playing a game after while usually I get Bord and don't play it again in less it has a really great replay value or was the best game I ever played. but that's what I wanted to say.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 4, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Chapter III: Updates/Changes
> 
> You understand that the Wii Console specifications and the Wii Network Service are constantly evolving and that we may update or change your Wii Console or the Wii Network Service in whole or in part, without notice to you. Such updates may be required for you to play new Wii games or continue to access the Wii Network Service. We may also upgrade, change, or terminate the Content or game software or may discontinue offering Products without notice to you.



Source

Considering all Nintendo products follow this, when purchasing their products, you therefore agree to the terms, and have no say as to if and when they do updates.


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## gameguy95 (Oct 5, 2010)

Veho said:
			
		

> Can't say I'm surprised. But when I suggested that as a possibility, everyone gawked at me that it's an "invasion of privacy" and "illegal" and who knows what.


but it is


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## Man18 (Oct 5, 2010)

then it will have free wifi everywhere or its never going to happen


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## Styles420 (Oct 5, 2010)

I love the part about how many people chose not to update... They're basically saying, "most people didn't do it when they had a choice, so we're looking into ways to force it down their throats - we believe they chose not to update for some reason other than the fact that the updates didn't add any functionality or improvements"


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 5, 2010)

Styles420 said:
			
		

> I love the part about how many people chose not to update... They're basically saying, "most people didn't do it when they had a choice, so we're looking into ways to force it down their throats - we believe they chose not to update for some reason other than the fact that the updates didn't add any functionality or improvements"



And we all know why a person wouldn't update, don't we?


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## Rydian (Oct 5, 2010)

Lolwut?

Most people didn't update because they were never told to.  Most people didn't use the shop (which is why the shop version for the 3DS is getting a total revamp) and that's the only time you're made to update.  Other than that, if you just want to stick a DS game cart in and play there's no mention of updates at all.


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## Panzer Tacticer (Oct 5, 2010)

sstomouth said:
			
		

> Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will lose sales from me and other pirates. What fags.




That comment is so stupid there is a risk that just reading it might damage IQ let alone prove the poster is indeed an idiot.

Oh and I hope you really are 13, because the term 'fags' is so fucking juvenile it's painful.

Not sure Nintendo likes you in the slightest. Why the hell do you think they are wanting to do it?

Are you that dense?

Myself, well if the new Nintendo was powerful enough to effectively read a pdf file or display a jpeg file I might care. Might.
But it would require a Nintendo sourced program, something that would permit me to read it off of an sd card.

Otherwise, I can't picture myself buying this incredibly expensive doodad that simply won't offer me enough to foresake my perfectly good DSi XL.

Multi tasking sounds neat and all, but I would need to be wanting to do the additional non game tasks.
Currently there are no non game tasks worth mention that I have heard of.

I would be impressed if Nintendo finally actually figured out how to make other than the easiest console to pirate in gaming history.
Not that it would make me suddenly interested in believing their games are suddenly worth my cash.


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## Panzer Tacticer (Oct 5, 2010)

Regarding comments mentioning EULAs etc.

It should be mentioned that in some cases EULAs are actually invalidated by some laws. In Canada for instance an EULA not presented to be read BEFORE cash changes hands, has zero worth and is void. That's Canadian law and nothing Nintendo writes can suspend or invalidate Canadian law whether you say yes or no.

So just agreeing to an EULA means nothing if it violates the legal code.

Companies don't make laws, nations make laws.

So keep it in mind, if the nation you live in contradicts a contract, the contract loses, not the law.

The above was not opinion. It called fact by the way kids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





There's a reason why it is legal in Canada to own software that can rip out DRM if it prevents me from making a legal back up copy of a program. Because in Canada it is legal to make back up copies regardless of what is written in the EULA. And saying I won't do it during install, does not mean I can't later, because the company was never able to usurp the law in the first place.

If your nation says you can return a product in 30 days if it is defective for a refund, then it is not relevant if a store doesn't like that they don't accept returns on PC games for instance. The store can't edit alter or deny legal rights just by writing up a policy. Sometimes sales are NOT final.


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## Rydian (Oct 5, 2010)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> I would be impressed if Nintendo finally actually figured out how to make other than the easiest console to pirate in gaming history.


Actually with the Dreamcast you could just burn CDs from your computer and an unmodded system would play them...


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## Panzer Tacticer (Oct 5, 2010)

Close I guess, the Nintendo doesn't need burning thus doesn't need a burner thus is still fractionally more effort.

But we still need the flashcart device.


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## DrOctapu (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm getting a faraday enhanced ds case.


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## MissingNo._ (Oct 6, 2010)

Because we won't be able to take out the battery while not in use.


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## silverbullet1080 (Oct 6, 2010)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> Regarding comments mentioning EULAs etc.
> 
> It should be mentioned that in some cases EULAs are actually invalidated by some laws. In Canada for instance an EULA not presented to be read BEFORE cash changes hands, has zero worth and is void. That's Canadian law and nothing Nintendo writes can suspend or invalidate Canadian law whether you say yes or no.
> 
> ...








Thread over folks.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 6, 2010)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Lolwut?
> 
> Most people didn't update because they were never told to.  Most people didn't use the shop (which is why the shop version for the 3DS is getting a total revamp) and that's the only time you're made to update.  Other than that, if you just want to stick a DS game cart in and play there's no mention of updates at all.



As far as I know, there are no DSiWare games that actually use any functionality that has come with the newest DSi updates (if there was any functionality at all). Because DS games required no such updates on DSis, there was little to notify people when playing those games. Now, on something like the Wii, however, many games require a certain version of the system OS to play (which come packed in with the game), and it tells you the moment you put in (or I should say within a few seconds) the disk if the update is required. If you decline to update, then the game isn't launched. You can obviously update manually if the Wii's been connected to the internet, but even then, there's is an indicator of "new mail", visual and audio, but that update isn't forced except when wanting to check the shop out and such.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 6, 2010)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> Regarding comments mentioning EULAs etc.
> 
> It should be mentioned that in some cases EULAs are actually invalidated by some laws. In Canada for instance an EULA not presented to be read BEFORE cash changes hands, has zero worth and is void. That's Canadian law and nothing Nintendo writes can suspend or invalidate Canadian law whether you say yes or no.
> 
> ...



Of course the country's law take priority in such matters, but if a product operates in a certain way which is against the law, then that product is unlawful, yes? It would be banned from the country, yes? If it's not banned or is being sold in that country, then that country must be allowing what it does, yes? So, if you wanted a 3DS, but you lived in a country that found it unlawful because of what it does, then you're out of luck. Should you then import it, or buy it on the black market, then the country has no jurisdiction in the matter because the product was not acquired/purchased by legal means.


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## silverbullet1080 (Oct 6, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> Panzer Tacticer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uh, auto updates aren't so much illegal as they are just asinine.  His post just says that Nintendo's EULA doesn't mean shit in canada unless it's presented before cash trades hands.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 6, 2010)

silverbullet1080 said:
			
		

> Uh, auto updates aren't so much illegal as they are just asinine.  His post just says that Nintendo's EULA doesn't mean shit in canada unless it's presented before cash trades hands.



If it's not illegal, then it doesn't matter if people feel violated by Nintendo forcing auto-updates, which is what people were complaining about in the first place, that Nintendo doesn't have the right to do so. The EULA wasn't the subject of the thread, but I only brought it up, not just because it told them otherwise,  but because Nintendo states in it that they will do updates without notice to the user of their devices, no matter what. Even if the law of the country ignores the EULA when not presented in the correct fashion, it won't stop Nintendo from doing what they'll say. That's when the issue of legality would come in, if what they're doing is legal to begin with. If it's not illegal, then it's a closed case, and people will have to live with what Nintendo plans to do. If it is illegal (in the country stating it), then the product is illegal, and would therefore be banned, taking the product out of the equation entirely. The country cold tell Nintendo to change the hardware to prevent that, but it'll be Nintendo's choice, not the users, and if Nintendo feels they can do without selling the product to that country, then that's their decision. Either way, Nintendo makes the decision, not the users.


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## TheTwoR's (Oct 6, 2010)

I'm actually quite proud of them.
I've been trying to quit piracy for like... A WHILE NOW.
This is me:
"OMG Unwound Future came out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "
"Crap I can't afford right now.."
"Maybe I'll TRY it on my AceKard"
"Ooo fun game! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "
10 hours of straight gameplay later:
"Oops I finished it. No point in buying the game now."
You see piracy totally ruins the joy of getting a new game.
You should've seen me when I bought Pokemon Heartgold and Pirated SoulSilver.
2 COMPLETELY different reactions.


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## Mylar (Oct 6, 2010)

Bah.

No access to homebrew might keep the 3DS out of my pocket.

Unless Nintendo ports nethack over themselves as an act of kindness or a downloadable game...

Is it sad that my M3i zero gets used primarily to play a game from the 80's?


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## Rydian (Oct 7, 2010)

Mylar said:
			
		

> Is it sad that my M3i zero gets used primarily to play a game from the 80's?


Nethack is a game routinely played by people younger than it.


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## silverbullet1080 (Oct 7, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> silverbullet1080 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The hardware doesn't need to be changed though, it's just a software issue.


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## TM2-Megatron (Oct 7, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> Then you are purposefully limiting yourself to what you can do on it, and what games you can play. Firmware updates are just that, updates. Fixes bugs. Adds functionality.



What the hell are you smoking?  90% of firmware updates to gaming systems in recent years have been nothing but blocking exploits.  No updates, no added functionalities... the only reason games released later require those updates to play is just another way to guarantee people will be forced to update the exploit-blocking firmware.

Nintendo can rant against piracy all they want, but though I don't pirate myself I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of pirates would never buy all their pirated games.  They'd perhaps by a few games a year; only their favourites.  If that... since they may not even bother buying the system at all if they can't pirate.  The PSP Go's epic failure indicates that (as well as the fact digital distribution isn't nearly as the gaming industry believes).


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 7, 2010)

TM2-Megatron said:
			
		

> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps I should have added "stability" to the list since hacks to the system to allow piracy aren't 100% safe. The makers of those hacks can't make any guarantees, and if something goes wrong, then you're on your own. Nintendo then has to use their firmware updates to clear up the junk that was modified. Not saying the firmware update is 100% safe either (as was a case not too long ago involving the Wii and the boot2), but at least companies like Nintendo will try and ensure that the product will work again or continue to work, even at a cost to them.

Now, if their method for AP is genuine on the 3DS, then maybe they can move resources from AP development to actual functionality development, yes?


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 7, 2010)

silverbullet1080 said:
			
		

> The hardware doesn't need to be changed though, it's just a software issue.



Still their decision on how they want their stuff to work.


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## ShadowTails (Oct 8, 2010)

Eh, I don't really care too much if there isn't some sort of exploit. Flashcards just make it easier for Pokemon battlers to record battles. Not to mention get Pokemon, because not everyone has time to breed. Though there's GTS exploits that I'm sure will carry through to the 3DS Pokemon games.


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## T3GZdev (Oct 8, 2010)

sstomouth said:
			
		

> Fuck that shit, if it is true, Nintendo will lose sales from me and other pirates. What fags.


i say fuck the pyrates, 
you really think 90 % of people pyrat there games? 
if 90% did they wouldnt be able to make 3ds becouse theyd be in debth.


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## imlgl (Oct 10, 2010)

I bought a flashcart for 1 reason, and that was to pirate games, i have no intentions on ever buying a game for a handheld console, hell i dont even buy android apps i get cracked ones.
I only buy games for 1 console and that is my xbox


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## SgtThom (Oct 12, 2010)

t377y000 said:
			
		

> sstomouth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





*Insert face palm gif here*


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## Cuber (Oct 14, 2010)

Opium said:
			
		

> The only reason why this may be a big deal is because it is very likely the 3DS will be region locked (which is totally stupid). So I await the day the 3DS can be hacked to make it region free.


Indeed it is... :/ I got in an argument with someone who says the only reason they're region locking them now is because of piracy... I don't see how region locking really prevents piracy, even if that is the reason... it's just dumb...


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## antwill (Oct 14, 2010)

Cuber said:
			
		

> Opium said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is that the reason at all, that would require them to know that their console was going to be pirated before they released it... DRM is used to stop piracy not region locking.


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## Cuber (Oct 14, 2010)

antwill said:
			
		

> Cuber said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now I'm confused, I thought a site I read said they mentioned GBA games to... if there's really no GBA, then boy.. I am pissed.


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## Rydian (Oct 14, 2010)

Region locking is used to protect prices (so they can charge more in a country that's relatively richer and not risk the citizens just importing it from a poor country cheaply) and also segregate content (for example in Europe bare breasts are fine while violence is not, and the opposite in the US).

The sites that said GBA games were reporting on a mistranslation.


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## Cuber (Oct 14, 2010)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Region locking is used to protect prices (so they can charge more in a country that's relatively richer and not risk the citizens just importing it from a poor country cheaply) and also segregate content (for example in Europe bare breasts are fine while violence is not, and the opposite in the US).
> 
> The sites that said GBA games were reporting on a mistranslation.


Although in South Africa games are like R500 ($73.67) and that country is considered 3rd world...

I don't get the need to segregate the content, I mean if something needs to be removed here fine whatever... bad to sell it but what's wrong with someone just owning it... >_>; I guess it's easier to accept kind of when you live in the US and not the EU... and used to being screwed over..

Oh well, I do hope it gets hacked to be region free like I did to my wii, but then with all this it's gonna be kinda hard... maybe if I get lots of money all a sudden I should buy a US one and a JP one.


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## antwill (Oct 15, 2010)

Cuber said:
			
		

> Rydian said:
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> 
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## tulio150 (Oct 15, 2010)

At least my wifi have a whitelist for the MACs of my pcs and my DS
Everyone should do that, otherwise the AP is public =)


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## Cuber (Oct 15, 2010)

antwill said:
			
		

> Parents like not having to parent their children?


True...

Bah in my day my parents were rather strict about what I could play...


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## wohdin (Oct 15, 2010)

This doesn't affect my desire to own one at all. I'm pretty sure the only way they could really get away with doing this is if they included a global Wifi toggle, like with the PSP, or with some way to turn off Spotpass.

The only thing that would make me NOT want a 3DS is region locking, which would literally be the *single dumbest thing* that Nintendo could *EVER* do. The main draw for me (and a lot of DS owners, from my understanding) is its ability to play all cards from all regions (except China, sup iQue). I would NEVER have bought a DS if it weren't for Ouendan.


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## PopSmith (Dec 1, 2010)

I could see someone making a WiiScrubber-style program that can edit 3DS files (like the Wii ISOs) and release groups would just remove updates before releasing the games. No more accidental updates for pirates. Every access point within my Wireless-N card's reach is passworded so randomly connecting to open Wi-Fi won't be a problem at home for me.

If the automatic updates via the Internet can't be disabled then someone will (eventually) come up with custom firmware that, at the very least, has the automatic update portion removed or disabled.


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## Kamika (Dec 11, 2010)

PopSmith said:
			
		

> I could see someone making a WiiScrubber-style program that can edit 3DS files (like the Wii ISOs) and release groups would just remove updates before releasing the games. No more accidental updates for pirates. Every access point within my Wireless-N card's reach is passworded so randomly connecting to open Wi-Fi won't be a problem at home for me.
> 
> If the automatic updates via the Internet can't be disabled then someone will (eventually) come up with custom firmware that, at the very least, has the automatic update portion removed or disabled.


I don't think that's needed. For anyone with Wifi they can simply block the device from connecting to the internet by putting the MAC adress on a block list of the router/modem's MAC filter. No internet = no firmware updates.


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## FireGrey (Dec 11, 2010)

You have to remember though, Nintendo don't make updates often...


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## Nollog (Dec 20, 2010)

tulio150 said:
			
		

> At least my wifi have a whitelist for the MACs of my pcs and my DS
> Everyone should do that, otherwise the AP is public =)
> macs can be spoofed very easily.
> QUOTE(FireGrey @ Dec 11 2010, 12:59 PM) You have to remember though, Nintendo don't make updates often...


That could change when they have a device capable of some things they couldn't add to firmware before.


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## BlueStar (Dec 20, 2010)

I really don't get region locking for handhelds, surely the whole point of a handheld is that you can take it with you on holiday, all over the world, and still be able to buy a game at whichever airport to play on your flight?


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## chris888222 (Jan 3, 2011)

Kamika said:
			
		

> PopSmith said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can I just don't give my WEP key to the 3DS so that it can't go online? Surely the 3ds won't hack into it?


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## chris888222 (Jan 3, 2011)

I sure hope someone is still looking at this...
According to http://3ds.nintendolife.com/news/2010/09/s...nnect24_for_3ds as displayed in one of the posts...

"Nintendo gave various examples of the kind of data that will be downloaded, including rankings, ghost data, notifications and new free software. Considering the DSi has just two free downloadable applications at present don't get too excited about the promise of new free games every week, but it's a start. The company states that *it will only be the availability of free software that's sent to your 3DS, not the software itself, although the machine will be connected to the Internet and therefore able to download the free game or trial straight away*."

So... does that mean that the firmware will not be downloaded into the 3DS, but rather just a notification that an update is available?


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## Mbmax (Jan 3, 2011)

They can't update automatically the 3DS without any permission of the end user (EULA).
Just say NO to the new EULA, it won't update.


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## chris888222 (Jan 3, 2011)

Mbmax said:
			
		

> They can't update automatically the 3DS without any permission of the end user (EULA).
> Just say NO to the new EULA, it won't update.


I think if you say 'no', the 3DS will shut off by itself and when you on it again it will ask you to accept it again...
Assuming if the EULA is shown on the 3DS when asking for your details like fav colour...


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## nintendoom (Jan 3, 2011)

chris888222 said:
			
		

> Mbmax said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah,,,...
Just like a wii update/..
If you dont want to update
Kill the wii off


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## chris888222 (Jan 3, 2011)

If it just tells you that there's new updates/firmwares/stuff and asks if you would like to install them, then it's okay for me... Like what Nintendo said, 'The company states that it will only be the availability of free software that's sent to your 3DS, not the software itself, although the machine will be connected to the Internet and therefore able to download the free game or trial straight away.'

But if it auto-downloads by itself... i find it so wrong


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