# FBI arrests people for clicking certain hyperlinks



## Mewgia (Mar 21, 2008)

http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-3...l?tag=nefd.lede

So the fbi has placed several links around the internet in posts, along with claims that the link contains child porn. This is the FBI's new way to catch pedophiles. It has been ruled legal in a court hearing, though there is a lot of controversy.


It is also a big step toward a police state. The only thing the feds have proof of with this method is that you clicked this fake link - they don't have to prove that you have ever chosen to view any child porn at all, it is just assumed and that's all the court apparently needs to jail you.  Someone who is leeching your wifi network could have clicked it and not you - but no, this defense does not work either.

They could start posting trap links that say they link to ways to buy drugs.


They could use this to catch pirates.

See where I'm going?


[EDIT] I would like it if people actually read the article instead of jumping to conclusions by reading my only my post.


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## Harsky (Mar 21, 2008)

I think this is their way to try and stop rickrolls.


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## Mewgia (Mar 21, 2008)

Harsky said:
			
		

> I think this is their way to try and stop rickrolls.


yeah he chief of the fbi got sick of having to kill the process of his browser to get rid of the lyrics that pop up.

no but seriously, this is bad :/


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## xJonny (Mar 21, 2008)

Your post implies that you don't want it to happen because you're a pirate who could possibly be trapped. HAH!

And don't even blame it on your neighbour stealing your wifi!

Seriously though, I don't know if they'd do it for things like pirated links although people have been trapped in torrents and p2p.


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## Rayder (Mar 21, 2008)

Hmm....sounds like entrapment to me, but I don't go looking for child porn anyway.   I thought entrapment was illegal.


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## jumpman17 (Mar 21, 2008)

The government has been hosting fake child porn sites for a while now to catch people who go to their fake site and continue to click around trying to load child porn pictures.

*EDIT:* Rayder: Yes, this is entrapment. I've always had a problem with how the cops on TV set up stings where they pretend to be hookers who go up to cars and knock on their windows, and continue to bug them to pay them for prostitution until they say yes. And then they arrest them.


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## Mewgia (Mar 21, 2008)

Rayder said:
			
		

> Hmm....sounds like entrapment to me, but I don't go looking for child porn anyway.   I thought entrapment was illegal.


it is, but a court has ruled that this is not entrapment because the descriptions that go along with the links say that the links contain cp.

however I think that it is entrapment, because the links do not actually contain anything illegal, and therefor they are charging people with an _attempt_ to view illegal files. Which iirc is not against the law.

According to the article, the video is just a generic garbled video with no porn in it, the kind you get when you try to download pron but instead get a virus.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 21, 2008)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> When anyone visited the upload.sytes.net site, the FBI recorded the Internet Protocol address of the remote computer. There's no evidence the referring site was recorded as well, meaning the FBI couldn't tell if the visitor found the links through Ranchi or another source such as an e-mail message.



This could be a new form of rick roll. The article says if you click on the link, even if it disguised as something else, you will be arrested.

Someone could tinyurl it and tell you it's anything. Next thing you know you are arrested for child porn.


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## Maktub (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm not sure about USA law, but here in Spain, if IRC (I live with two students on Law) an attempt to do something bad IS a crime. Not really sure about stuff on the internets cause the laws are new and constantly changing (so does the internetS). Anyway, personally, I think this is pure poo. However as long as they stick to pedobears it's alright for me.

Unless I click on a link which is supossed to lead me to a Rick Roll, but I get Pedo Bear'd, then FBI'd. That wouldn't be fun.
...
OMG, don't go into 4chan anymore, or you'll be def'ly FBI'd.


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## xJonny (Mar 21, 2008)

Bob Loblaw said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's why we use TinyURL previews or Tin Foil Hat


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## Mewgia (Mar 21, 2008)

Bob Loblaw said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I found this article through a chan, and the first reply in the thread was along the lines of what you just said.

It doesn't even have to be tinyurl'd, if the feds decide to use more nondescript links it could just be staright out.

"hey guize grab this awesome new album at [trap link here]"


@xJonny at least 60% of people don't use either of those things. These are the average users of the internet who don't use firefox and even if they do, they don't use it for protection. You have to look at the big picture here.


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## cracker (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm with Bob Loblaw. You could get someone in some serious trouble because let's face it... People are dumb and do things online that they know they shouldn't do no matter how many times they are told not to = There are a lot of stupid people online. And there are a lot of spiteful asses online that would redistribute the links as a game, full movie, etc and would get a lot of hits (even from smart people that were desperate to get their hands on the content that it was said to be). Ex: LoZ-PH or SSBB. There's no doubt that the people that knowingly visited the links were sick and needed help but this is going to start a whole mess of 'illegal behavior' that will be 'proven' because the IP address showed up -- no other questions asked.


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## amrod (Mar 21, 2008)

what if someone puts the url in a tinyurl ?


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## Mewgia (Mar 21, 2008)

cracker said:
			
		

> I'm with Bob Loblaw. You could get someone in some serious trouble because let's face it... People are dumb and do things online that they know they shouldn't do no matter how many times they are told not to = There are a lot of stupid people online. And there are a lot of spiteful asses online that would redistribute the links as a game, full movie, etc and would get a lot of hits (even from smart people that were desperate to get their hands on the content that it was said to be). Ex: LoZ-PH or SSBB. There's no doubt that the people that knowingly visited the links were sick and needed help but this is going to start a whole mess of 'illegal behavior' that will be 'proven' because the IP address showed up -- no other questions asked.


One of the things that was said in the article is that the ip logger does not save the refferer site - which means that  they can't check to see if the victim clicked a link that the fbi posted, as opposed to someone else posted it.


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## Thanubis (Mar 21, 2008)




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## SaltyDog (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, this is what is to be expected with the rogue Patriot Act. Bullshit like this was bound to happen. Catch the pedo's YES but do it within reason. I agree this is a major step (ergo Patriot Act again) toward a Police State. This exceeds entrapment without enticement. Suppose you did get an email with a virus or suppose you got a pop-up ad and click the damn link accidentally; your screwed. I can see if a pattern was established where a perp clicked multiple links looking for child porn or participated in online groups looking for it, then bust them. But, one click is more tortious than proven habituation. Unfortunately, committing a tort merits the same consequences as committing the actual crime. We, as a country, have really let our civil liberties go under the guise of a shadow president purporting terrorism as the greatest enemy. Yet, I sit here in Phoenix were illegal immigrants are caught by the hundreds daily!!!! and yet the government who is so willing to shield us with the Patriot Act, RICO, and out-right entrapment all for the sake of so-called safety leaves open entry into this country. First goes the liberties for fair trials then comes the police state. It will happen. (Sorry for the rant, but undeniable entrapment pisses me off!) There are bigger problems the FBI could handle than some _supposed_ perverts.


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## NeSchn (Mar 21, 2008)

Wow, thats a little unfair. Even if you accidently click on it you can still get arrested. Thats horrible. Damn pigs.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 21, 2008)

NeSchn said:
			
		

> Wow, thats a little unfair. Even if you accidently click on it you can still get arrested. Thats horrible. Damn pigs.


Actually, its those that make and uphold the laws. Don't blame the law enforcers (they are just doing their job regardless) blame the pigs in the justice and judicial systems.


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## cubin' (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm not down with pedos but I certainly don't agree that clicking on a certain link is enough to get you in trouble! 

Don't you guys have some sort of privacy laws? I wonder when they'll start doing this for roms/games etc.


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## Flooded (Mar 21, 2008)

Hi guys check this out

http://tinyurl.com/5jg2


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## Man18 (Mar 21, 2008)

Stick to websites like this. Do not download something from places based in the US. If you are not in the US dont worry about it. Do not go to anyplace new.


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## arsehat (Mar 21, 2008)

cubin' said:
			
		

> I'm not down with pedos but I certainly don't agree that clicking on a certain link is enough to get you in trouble!
> 
> Don't you guys have some sort of privacy laws? I wonder when they'll start doing this for roms/games etc.



...and you think they haven't already because...?
...but then, they'd have to pay the Russian Mafia's Phishing Division off to get away with that.

On a more serious note, there are lots of people and organisations out there who are offering up their machines and connections for use by TOR. I'm just waiting for the FBI to go after an individual whose connection was the one that made the connection on behalf of some anonymous Mr Pervy. Or for the FBI to confiscate servers owned by the EFF that connected to fake kiddieporn or fake pirate sites - that'll make for some interesting discussions over on Slashdot.

...of course, the FBI probably route more than their fair share of TOR traffic for "investigatory purposes"...
...as do the Russian Mafia...


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## jumpman17 (Mar 21, 2008)

Let's be realistic here though. They are only going to come after you if you click the link, and browse around for awhile. If someone tricks you to the link, and as soon as it loads, you backpedal to safety, they aren't going to bust down your door.


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## Wekker (Mar 21, 2008)

that why usa suck, this is just like the way SS or SA doing t in the WWO II
i mean catching pedo on this way would be good idea
but what about the power behind the fbi, he can use it to eliminate anyone who is standing in his way, like policticus, of course it wont be so easy, but still to silence anyone who know too much and forth.
this LAW is just not justifies enough. ofcourse i wont complain if there are enough evidence were found.
and the way the fbi are working are also terrible, the one who get arrested ( might be innocence ) wont get any payment for the injuries he/she take during the raid...  ~~ to the hell with usa law. 
and believe me it is not really about the child porn part, rather it is use a pawn for the politic powers
China > usa


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## dilav (Mar 21, 2008)

Wow what a waste of my time reading that long info...  Anyway that is seriously messed up, I wonder if the FBI had proof or heard his destroying his harddrive and flash drive.  Thats way too unfair, as most people here stated, the wifi could of been stolen, the link could of been linked from anywhere.  The FBI did not log anything besides the IP address that visited that site.  The person did had a thumbs.db file (stupid previews) and some other facts they should go to jail, thats fairish enough.  But as with how far the FBI done just logging ip's not the source of the link. and how they wanted to talk to Vosburgh about his 'car' thats not fair.

Offtopic but this made me wonder how safe those file hosting site like megaupload, rapidshare... are.  Cause there's media defender with p2p, thats not really safe either.  But does rapidshare or megaupload log your ip?  Is there any file sharing/hosting that dont log your ip?  Since Ip can change so many time and ISP have to log them, do ISP ip log be unaccurately some time.  Or do they have something like once ppl dont use this ip, no one gets it until after xx minute?

w/e this is a very interesting and scary topic.


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## Masked (Mar 21, 2008)

I clicked this topic and before the page loaded my first thought was "shit"


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## GH0ST (Mar 21, 2008)

Honeypots ... 

I get trapped to 


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> http://www.harveysilverglate.com/
> Fatal Error ownz you - irc.chatbr.org #Ferror
> 
> by following the link in last paragraph of the linked article !
> ...



Links are dangerous but what about embedded links... or hidden contents ... everybody is a dog... ?


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## Lumstar (Mar 21, 2008)

The core problem with this is that someone else (unknown to the person who made the ISP account), could potentially be browsing these sites. Like a burglar or anybody knowing how to get past wi-fi encryption.


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## Gus122000 (Mar 21, 2008)

cracker said:
			
		

> *I'm with Bob Loblaw.* You could get someone in some serious trouble because let's face it... People are dumb and do things online that they know they shouldn't do no matter how many times they are told not to = There are a lot of stupid people online. And there are a lot of spiteful asses online that would redistribute the links as a game, full movie, etc and would get a lot of hits (even from smart people that were desperate to get their hands on the content that it was said to be). Ex: LoZ-PH or SSBB. There's no doubt that the people that knowingly visited the links were sick and needed help but this is going to start a whole mess of 'illegal behavior' that will be 'proven' because the IP address showed up -- no other questions asked.


I'm always with bob loblaw  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




That would be so funny "Oh hey guys,look at this hot nude chick.*clicks link* FBI'D/CHRIS HANSEN'D!!!"


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## GH0ST (Mar 21, 2008)

It is also now a common trick for spammers to mislead people by offering porn contents with some captcha redirected by a spambot  from mail services. The "innocent" zombie is used as a slave to type the captcha and the account leads to his IP ...


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## Little (Mar 21, 2008)

I actually really agree with this. 
Not particular an insta-arrest but perhaps a warrant to check PC data or placing some kind of tracker on this person via their ISP or something to track all their internet usage. Then the people who have real child porn get busted.


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## MaHe (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm getting sickened by the American government (and governmental agencies). Not only entrapment is immoral, it's also a huge violation of human rights. This and Patriot Act, for example, is exactly the bullshit that starts to happen when there's too much power in one place.


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## Little (Mar 21, 2008)

but if you don't have a collection of child porn and dont click child porn links. you will be okay. although i think that they really should be sure that the source of link was in fact the original post and not an email/tiny url attempt to get people to click it.


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## WeaponXxX (Mar 21, 2008)

Well for those that don't know...getting INVESTIGATED for CP is quite a pain in the ass. If you accidentally click a link and the FEDS come to take your shit to INVESTIGATE the contents of your drive you can expect to be without a PC for a MINIMUM of 8 months...actually you may be lucky if you get your gear back at all. From what I understand your talking about a corrupt government who like "free" shit.


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## Mewgia (Mar 21, 2008)

jumpman17 said:
			
		

> Let's be realistic here though. They are only going to come after you if you click the link, and browse around for awhile. If someone tricks you to the link, and as soon as it loads, you backpedal to safety, they aren't going to bust down your door.


uhh...if you had read the article you would have known that clicking these trap links brings you to a site with a message saying "this site has been removed for violating ethics laws blah blah blah."  There is nothing pornographic on the site at all. There is nothing to browse around to.


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## GH0ST (Mar 21, 2008)

cruddybuddy said:
			
		

> First the FBI raid people's homes for trying to look at child porn, and now this! What is the world coming to?
> 
> FBI Raid Homes for Rick Rolling



Even worst ...


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## Twiffles (Mar 21, 2008)

If the president of the US were to click a link, what happens?


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## cracker (Mar 21, 2008)

GH0ST said:
			
		

> cruddybuddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...








 That's a good one. Too bad it was a youtube video and not a hardcore RR with Javascript, etc.


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## Orc (Mar 21, 2008)

Twiffles said:
			
		

> If the president of the US were to click a link, what happens?


Better than to divide by zero.


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## cracker (Mar 21, 2008)

Twiffles said:
			
		

> If the president of the US were to click a link, what happens?



He would go to Crawford while his cronies went on tv and said they did not recall ever seeing him click the link and bin Laden would release another tape.


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## arctic_flame (Mar 21, 2008)

Someone mentioned this earlier, but if didn't really go over the implications.

If someone doesn't like you, they could make a page full of:



hundreds of times. What would you do then? access logs would have you visiting the site 100s of times.


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## GH0ST (Mar 21, 2008)

Next step ... they will ask you to immediately report any bad link you accidentally hit to an emergency service ... if you fail they will charge you for keeping silence ... what about searchers activities,  sites crawlers or  firefox extensions like " dwld them all"  ... I'm not a pervert ... but browsing gbatemp ultimate fail thread in test area  is enough to be convincted i imagine !

Afet that if they seized your PC be sure they will keep it & charge you at least for any nintendo related thing they will alternately found ...


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## GeekyGuy (Mar 22, 2008)

Rayder said:
			
		

> Hmm....sounds like entrapment to me, but I don't go looking for child porn anyway.   I thought entrapment was illegal.



In the "real" world it is entrapment, but the Supreme Court still hasn't ruled on any such cases of this nature that pertain to the Internet. The Web is still fertile ground when it comes to U.S. law.


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## Westside (Mar 22, 2008)

This pisses me off, because /b/tards can easily use this method to trap n00bs the way they did with rickrolling, and people are gonna bust down your doors because of idiots online trapping you with stupid links.


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## Psyfira (Mar 22, 2008)

Hm need to think about this one, even if it's catching people who haven't done anything wrong it could be a good way of weeding out all the crap "this isn't actually funny" humour on the internet, and I'm all for that... but you're all right, they'd have to build in a safeguard against disguised links first. Like have a list of known referring sites where they have planted the link and reject all connections from elsewhere. (I'm pretty sure that's possible, same idea as anti-hotlinking on images).


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## GeekyGuy (Mar 22, 2008)

Psyfira said:
			
		

> Hm need to think about this one, even if it's catching people who haven't done anything wrong it could be a good way of weeding out all the crap "this isn't actually funny" humour on the internet, and I'm all for that... but you're all right, they'd have to build in a safeguard against disguised links first. Like have a list of known referring sites where they have planted the link and reject all connections from elsewhere. (I'm pretty sure that's possible, same idea as anti-hotlinking on images).



It's perhaps one of the oldest arguments in the world: Fruit of the Poison Tree. A little evil for a lot of good? Last I checked, the entire world still doesn't agree on this in general philosophical terms. Me, though -- and I hate to be dogmatic about pretty much anything -- I tend to always come out on the side of the U.S. Constitution. This type of thing definitely and unquestionably is not in the spirit of the Constitution, and my guess is -- if this ever makes its way to the Supreme Court, and I'm certain it will -- they will strike this shit down hard.


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## techforumz (Mar 22, 2008)

This is stricly unconstitutional, and is another step towards me leaving the coutry...
BTW: My firefox just crashed viewing this page, weird. Is there some anti-firefox element in here, I'm having to respond vis lynx.


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## feds4u (Mar 24, 2008)

Mewgia said:
			
		

> http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-3...l?tag=nefd.lede
> 
> So the fbi has placed several links around the internet in posts, along with claims that the link contains child porn. This is the FBI's new way to catch pedophiles. It has been ruled legal in a court hearing, though there is a lot of controversy.



They've already snagged a couple of 711chan users.  Outstanding work feds.


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## arctic_flame (Mar 24, 2008)

techforumz said:
			
		

> This is stricly unconstitutional, and is another step towards me leaving the coutry...
> BTW: My firefox just crashed viewing this page, weird. Is there some anti-firefox element in here, I'm having to respond vis lynx.



Replting to an offtopic comment...

Happens to me to, but all that makes its Way to STDOUT is "Segmentation Error. Core Dumped"


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