# Why Piracy Will Become More Prevalent



## BreadMaster (May 2, 2010)

Stumbled upon this informative article,

http://tokeke.blogspot.com/2010/05/why-pir...-of-threat.html

Give it a read; discuss.


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## zeromac (May 2, 2010)

Woot we get mentioned there!
So does Shoptemp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





And so does Spinals DScovered! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Viral advertising FTW

On-topic: still reading the damn article

EDIT: Finished the article, mostly it's just saying that piracy isn't stealing and how easy it is thanks to Shoptemp and sites like GBATEMP


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## thiefraccoon (May 2, 2010)

i've read many articles like this before,
but i like the part about how people who pirate certain files probably wouldn't have bought it if there was no piracy .

*Posts merged*

also, LOL at certain "pirate bay"


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## nutella (May 2, 2010)

i can definitely see things such as cloud based gaming (specifically onlive) reducing piracy as far as video games go. thats not to say everything will be cloud based in the future, but i can definitely see a shift in that direction given the success of digital distribution.


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## coolbho3000 (May 2, 2010)

Yes, one downloaded copy does not equal a sale. It is far from that. Despite this, there's definitely people who _effectively _cost entertainment companies money by pirating where they otherwise would have bought. I know, because I was (maybe am) one of them. It's not stealing, but it's still undeniably wrong.

I'm just saying, when you see people posting code you've written and debugged for hours on end up on file uploading websites then freely sharing the link for ego or whatever, you get a new perspective on things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a golden rule sort of thing. I've since started buying most of my games again, especially those from small or independent developers.


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## Toader (May 2, 2010)

Hey guys this is off topic, but which loader is this?




or is it a theme? If so for which usb loader?


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## Heran Bago (May 2, 2010)

Article goes on at great length as to why piracy is not theft. It does not mention *copyright infringement*, a much more serious (damages-wise) and easier to prove *civil* infringement, not a crime. 

Decent article but reads like it was written by a 'temper. No offense here - it's better than I might expect from Totokekebukakke


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## W.I.C.K.E.D. (May 2, 2010)

I think another factor is the large amount of shit games that get released. If you go spend 60 bucks on something that might look cool in videos or reviews but sucks more ass than a dog with peanut butter in his poop hole, it's a complete turn off for spending your hard earned cash. I've had shoe boxes full of newer games, took them to gamestop and got damn near nothing for them. It hurts, and makes you realize all the money you've spent (and lost) over the years. I lost faith in the game industry a long time ago. Maybe this is a time when the industry (all of them for that matter) should think about making quality stuff that keeps people happy instead of being more concerned with their profit margin for the year. I understand business is business, and you have to make money to survive. If you get greedy though, it eventually bites you in the ass because karma is a bitch.


Edit: deleted...it was off topic...lol


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## Costello (May 2, 2010)

I completely disagree with this point of view and the future shall prove me right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the present already serves my point:
basically it's going to be harder and harder to play illegally downloaded games on newer consoles, due to new digital protections such as DRMs, system hypervising, and other techniques like cloud computing (Assassin's creed 2 already does that, though it's been hacked already iirc)
The PS3 for example, well you can't play illegally downloaded games on it at the moment. The console has been out for years! The blogger does not mention the word "sony" or "playstation" anywhere in his article...
The next generation of 360 (slim maybe?) will probably enhance protection mechanisms although it's already hard to play pirated stuff on the new models.

Nintendo didn't pay much attention to protection mechanisms in their Wii and DS (but what of DSi ware?), probably because these consoles weren't powerful enough to integrate such mechanisms.
I think its very likely that the next generation of consoles and handheld will completely get rid of piracy.


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## dinofan01 (May 2, 2010)

Costello said:
			
		

> I completely disagree with this point of view and the future shall prove me right
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i agree completely. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3ds isnt as big of jump as people expect just because Nintendo wants to block piracy. There really serious about piracy now. Its saddens me to think I'll have to buy my ds games in the future.


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## macgeek417 (May 2, 2010)

You will never completely get rid of piracy.


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## W.I.C.K.E.D. (May 2, 2010)

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......it has been mentioned




			
				grubbymitts said:
			
		

> Confirmed fake on many, many sites.



regardless there is an exploit in the system that can be used...


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## grubbymitts (May 2, 2010)

Confirmed fake on many, many sites.


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## geoflcl (May 2, 2010)

Hmm... 

Well, alright then.  So basically, he's saying that the rate of piracy is proportional to how easy it is to pirate.

I could've told you that!


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## BoxShot (May 2, 2010)

dinofan01 said:
			
		

> Costello said:
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Agreed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't want to spend my non-existing cash on games. So give or take 2 games a year. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




@macgeek417 We all know that but they can make it harder and stop it for years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think they are really cracking down piracy on other fronts besides gaming really.


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## Schizoanalysis (May 2, 2010)

W.I.C.K.E.D. said:
			
		

> ... instead of being more concerned with their profit margin for the year. I understand business is business, and you have to make money to survive. ...




As do I... I care for my profit margin and stopped buying games when the bottom fell out of 2nd hand game sales...

I remember the day when 2nd hand Saturn games on Ebay sold for more money than they cost new... these days a second hand game sells for a small fraction of the price...

It is a vicious circle... piracy has killed 2nd hand game sales, and low 2nd hand game prices mean that one must turn to piracy if one does not want to throw money down the toilet...


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## Maikel Steneker (May 2, 2010)

Costello said:
			
		

> I completely disagree with this point of view and the future shall prove me right
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Don't underestimate Nintendo. The DS is secured with RSA for example. That particular type still hasn't been hacked, so despite of the DS's power it can actually incorporate pretty secure features.

With the GBA, you could just make a cartridge that instantly worked on the system. It had no protection at all. With the DS, that's different. Like with many consoles, a few security holes broke the entire system open. Without the bug that allowed PassMe/WifiMe to work, the system wouldn't have been hacked for years.


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## tj_cool (May 2, 2010)

Toader said:
			
		

> Hey guys this is off topic, but which loader is this?
> -snipped-
> or is it a theme? If so for which usb loader?


It's Coverflow7 Loader. An old loader that existed a while back, but now it's no longer in development.
You can imitate the design with WiiFlow though


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## overlord00 (May 2, 2010)

yay for us!
btw; i know plenty of people that if they couldnt pirate all the shitty wii games out there, they wouldnt get any... cos they are all shit... at least NIN is getting coverage... they have not bought a good game into the market for a long while (with only few exceptions).
wtf this guy talking about... xbox hacking isnt that hard.


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## FAST6191 (May 2, 2010)

What Heran Bago said and aside from some gripes with the 360 side of things (no mention of JTAG, every few months, probes being a necessity) and steam (the implication that it prevents copying) my main problem would be the claim that books are not really copied...... there are several high profile newsgroups on the subject and more than a few forums dedicated to it especially if you step outside fiction and head into the more technical realms; those books can cost a fortune- from my main field the ASM Handbooks ( http://products.asminternational.org/hbk/index.jsp ) clock some 25 volumes and each clocks around 200 USD, while you will probably not need all of them there are four or five core books that overlap across the entire field) and you can give me any other area of science, engineering and possibly law (my experience says it is more little and frequent and similar examples will be coming your way. Aside from image heavy PDF files (even then they are not that large) you also have to consider that they are far better suited to more traditional methods of distribution.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2010)

I think we're at an odd crossroads here. We're at a point where piracy is easy and possible for the dumbest of people but where anti-piracy technology is getting more advanced. If you were to look at a fancy shmancy graph we would probably be where the two lines intersect.

I think piracy won't grow to abnormal proportions and won't die either. I mean, look at the technology today. The Wii and DS are insanely easy to pirate on, but we still have Wii games that sell tens of millions of copies and DS games that sell millions as well. When you get to the new "casual" audience, they don't have enough experience or have too many "morals" to stop them from pirating. If you look at the Xbox 360 and PS3, you get the 360 which has bans (that can essentially force you into buying a brand new console, which is more coinage in Microsoft's purse) and the PS3 which is a fortress against pirates (with a double whammy of no piracy methods and huge Bluray disc games).

And video game piracy isn't as big as music piracy and movie piracy, I would think. Just looking at my school, a small percentage of people pirate video games. Pretty much everyone has downloaded a movie or CD, probably because movies and CDs require nothing more than downloading and throwing onto a disc or iPod or media player, while video games require a hacked console or other types of hardware to be used.

EDIT: As per things like DRM, DRM sucks. Games actually get lower scores and less sales because of it. Look at aggregate scores for games like Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell Conviction on the PC and they're lower than the Xbox 360/PS3 counterparts. It's ridden with problems. When companies get so into anti-piracy that they start hurting the game itself, it becomes a seriously problem. Even then, everything has a crack. Even the PS3 in a few years (probably past its lifetime) will eventually be cracked for piracy.


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## mudassirul (May 2, 2010)

Freebies are the answer! it made me pre order soul silver for the figurine.


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## Panzer Tacticer (May 2, 2010)

The article is classic flawed thinking.

Theft is always theft, and to say otherwise is the same as announcing you are also a fucking retard.

But let's not get wrapped up in a debate of semantics neither of us gives a shit about. Because I know I don't care what you need to call it, and I also know you don't care what I think it is.

So now that we have ditched the pointless semantic debate, lets actually attack the real problem.

Crap that is free is no biggie, any more than junk mail doesn't bother you because it didn't cost you anything. So whether you read the envelope of 'valuable coupons' or not, it's not like you paid anything for them.
And yes, those 'valuable coupons' weren't free to make, they cost someone something to make them, but, they're still crap to the majority of us that get them in the mail.

The people that mail them use the justification though, that if they make 100k inserts, and actually get 1000 sales, they made 1000 sales and if it is for a carpet cleaning service that's worth say 50 bucks, well that 50k dollars. So the flyers being garbage to the other 99k people is no big deal, because it sure didn't cost 50k to send them out. It costs something though. It's a speculation.

Speculation, that is what everyone with something to sell is doing. They are 'hoping' to make some profit, any profit.

Sooooo my favourite beef Nintendo. Ok I suppose Nintendo is actually making money with all that fucking schlock on the market wearing their brand name.
But good luck getting me to pay a red cent for most of it.
I CAN download any Nintendo DS game, and I CAN look at the game and yet again delete it after laughing at it and going 'yep more shit from Nintendo'.
Was that theft? Fucking right it was.
Was it a lost sale? Not fucking likely.
There was NEVER any single chance in hell I would buy in some cases every last goddamned Nintendo DS game on the shelves of the average game store.
You can't lose a sale you never EVER had a chance of making.
But because of the internet, I CAN look at your game, if I am that bored and that curious and dumb enough to waste the needed time to do it.

I have downloaded all the games I have bought before I got around to buying them simply because why wait?
It takes time for some retailers to get in stock.
It takes time for some games to arrive in the mail from online sources.
if I had stuck to only playing downloads, and not buying even the games I like, THAT is a lost sale.
Because I MIGHT have bought that one.

Maybe it the industry stopped making so much utter crap, they might have a stronger argument, but it will never stop the fact that some of us are just fucking cheap bastards.
Not all of us though are totally cheap lousy swine.
Most of us are curious though.
And I would guess all of us won't spend money on crud, but they might  indulge it briefly for free.

Movies, the stuff they actually expect us to watch eh.
Sorry, too many films out of Hollywood were a waste of time effort and investment.
Most of the time, the only reason people go to obvious dumb films, is they are just that bored at the time.
Most will take their girlfriend to a film, regardless of the film's quality, just because they are punching their ticket, earning some points, saving up for something they actually want. And it sure wasn't to see a crummy movie.
If it's just the guys, well a downloaded xvid is just fine eh. Because schlock to watch and laugh at with the guys is ok, as long as it's free.

That Clash of the Titans was no better than a download after the fact. Only reason I wasted cash on it was I was bored and with friends. Turns out we watched an anime feature at home later and decided the Girl Who Leapt Through Time was several times better than Clash of the Titans was. Pity I thought the film How to Train Your Dragon was too kiddie a film. I should have watched that the day I saw Clash of the Titans. It was actually worth the ticket price. There was indeed plenty of kids watching it, and it was friggin hilarious.

Maybe if the industry tried a shitload harder, they would have a lot fewer 'lost sales'.

Piracy is only rampant, because the industry has A. no interest in producing quality B. no interest in fast efficient modern means of delivery and C. the consumer thanks to the internet does not need to suck it up and accept low grade crap and lousy service.

The internet gave me the ability to say NO!! I will NOT accept lousy service.

People DO like to treat themselves to some nice things occasionally. Key word is 'nice things'.
The people here that download, they are not against buying products if it's worth it.
But we all know we don't have to pay if it was never worth our cash.

The industry needs to get their head around the idea of the junk flyer. The most you can do, is hope for enough sales to make enough profit and nothing else.
And if your product is known to be no good, just forget about making many sales.


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## Dter ic (May 2, 2010)

developers are more drawn into making money by selling a shit load of games(ubisoft) sry.
if the world didn't work for money at least people would make games at least worth buying.
(i know how hard, time-consuming making games it is) imagin making a MASSIVE long rpg like final fantasy on warioware d.i.y (not realistioc but u get the point) (i hope) ;P


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## BreadMaster (May 2, 2010)

overlord00 said:
			
		

> wtf this guy talking about... xbox hacking isnt that hard.


Well it is comparatively, there's a much greater chance for error, and you require a flashing kit online, as opposed to one flashcart or SD card.


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## spotanjo3 (May 2, 2010)

macgeek417 said:
			
		

> You will never completely get rid of piracy.



Yes, you can completely get rid of piracy ==== No consoles and no portable by then.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 2, 2010)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> macgeek417 said:
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What about computer games? Music? Movies?


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## spotanjo3 (May 2, 2010)

I forgot about that too.. Yes. Its only way to get rid of piracy. So.. You understand that if they are still there then you will never get rid of piracy no matter how protection it is as long as they are available. Someone will find a way. Thats the problem.


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## Slyakin (May 2, 2010)

It's awesome how GBATemp and ShopTemp are mentioned in ther- HOLY SHIT NOOB FEST. >


Yeah, piracy has become easier and easier as the times go by. Heck, I just pirated my first Wii game yesterday! If I can do it, so can anyone else.


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## BORTZ (May 2, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> or the Nintendo way, by doing little to nothing.



I really dont think nintendo cares all that much honestly. I mean of course they care about making money, but think about the amount of money they have make off of the Wii system alone. You have to buy one first to start pirating. 

Second think of all th peripherals you have to buy. 40 bucks for another wiimote and nunchuck is nonsense. if you want to play mario party you need to buy 3 more after you have the system. 

All of that aside, you have the DS alone has sold over 100 million. how many of us have had 2 or 3 of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i know ive had 2 and i may need a third one. 
Interesting.


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## UltraMagnus (May 2, 2010)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> Theft is always theft, and to say otherwise is the same as announcing you are also a fucking retard.








The *only* reason piracy is not more prevalent is that sheeple are lazy and easily fooled by corporate FUD.


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## Panzer Tacticer (May 2, 2010)

UltraMagnus said:
			
		

> Panzer Tacticer said:
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You do a fine job of proving my point.
And retarded graphics remain retarded graphics


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## UltraMagnus (May 2, 2010)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> You do a fine job of proving my point.
> And retarded graphics remain retarded graphics


Under English law the Theft Act 1968 defines theft as:
"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"

Ergo, making a copy of someone's property is not theft as you have no intention of permanently depriving them of their property. 

You sir, fail.


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## yuyuyup (May 2, 2010)

That article is retarded, I thought he was gonna say piracy would become more prevelant cause with DLC/legal movies/mp3 purchases etc. there is less of a physical attachment to covers, cases, manuals, etc.  Piracy has always been way easy.  The fact that people pay a dollar or more for an mp3 is proof that piracy aint gonna hurt shit


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## DarkWay (May 2, 2010)

free advertisement


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## Mantis41 (May 2, 2010)




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## UltraMagnus (May 2, 2010)

You aren't supporting the artists though, 99% of the money you spend on a game goes to lawyers, DRM Authors, and corporate fatcats.


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## Mantis41 (May 2, 2010)

UltraMagnus said:
			
		

> You aren't supporting the artists though, 99% of the money you spend on a game goes to lawyers, DRM Authors, and corporate fatcats.Yeh! I actually agree with you. I was just stirring shit with that poster.
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## BORTZ (May 3, 2010)

btw im pumped that we got mentioned :tempy:


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## Schizoanalysis (May 3, 2010)

UltraMagnus said:
			
		

> Under English law the Theft Act 1968 defines theft as:
> "A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"




Sounds just like what the English did to the native peoples of USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, etc, etc, etc...

Tally ho then... or should that be _ahoy me hearties_...


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## Jamstruth (May 3, 2010)

Mantis41 said:
			
		

>


The main problem with this theory is that most of the downloads would not have ever been sales. I mainly pirate games I am curious about, but would not buy. I buy most games that I really want and pirate ones I'm just vaguely interested in. Artists can't lose money on sales that would never have been.


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## Retal (May 3, 2010)

Considering it's just a random blog post, it's surprisingly well written. Sadly, not free of flaws, including technical inaccuracies and confusing passages particularly towards the end.


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## AnotherMuggle (May 3, 2010)

I've seen this before and I think it completely misses the point:





The "theft" is not of the item that the copy was made from. 
The theft is of the sale that would/could have been if the copy was not made.


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## Yumi (May 3, 2010)

There is a place here in Mexico called Tepito where everything is pirated and works. Wiis/PSPs/PS3/Xbox360/DS/Tapes/cell-phones/DVDS/Vinyls/even clothes. o_o
Modding your PS3/Xbox360 costs you 300Pesos (approx $30 U.S.). I know this because a cousin who lives near Tepito(dangerous place) owns a PS3/Xbox360 went there and got everything modded for $60. Games range from 50-120pesos($5-$12)(probably even more but that's what I've seen). 

A brand new movie is announced and is yet to hit theaters, Tepito will already have it with perfect visuals/audio. Same goes with games and music. 

So IMO piracy doesn't seem to be getting harder to do.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Time to smoke some of my pirated weed. x)


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## zuron7 (May 4, 2010)

I've had enough of these discussions on Piracy.
But one thing for sure piracy will exist for a long long time till one day everything becomes free.No, I'm not joking one day everything will be free.
For example take a look at cellphones.The prices for making calls have come down so much that literally everyone owns a cell phone.In a few more years it might become free considering that it already is if you use some thing like Skype on your Cellhone.

Another thing is that you might be getting lots of stuff for free using the "internet" but you still have to pay that bill you get at the end of the month.


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## Panzer Tacticer (May 4, 2010)

"Under English law the Theft Act 1968....."

Worthless comment if you are not subject to English law of course.

In addition, every time the FBI warns me on a video, I am free to flip it the bird. Sorry FBI, this is Canada where not surprisingly, the FBI has zero jurisdiction.

Any time you make a remark based on a specific legal wording of a specific law as written in a specific legal code of a specific country, you might have said something of merit to a fellow countryman, but you haven't said anything of worth outside of that country.

We have military forces around the world for that reason. Your country's laws don't have to mean anything to us if way say they don't.
Don't like it, do something about it eh.

Now, in as much as the thinking well I never stole the 'original' thus it isn't theft. Totally moronic thinking.

If you made it possible to have access to something, that was not your right to have access to, without paying for that access, you have stolen the chance of the person to gain profit by your action.

The only important thing in this discussion, is 'do you give a fuck if you denied a loser an opportunity to make a sale from his worthless fucking crap?'

I don't mind downloading DS games, seeing that they are crap, deleting them, and NOT putting 40 bucks in the pocket of some schlockware shoveling operation.
As far as I am concerned, Nintendo is no different than those coupon venders that send me free envelopes in the mail hoping that I like at least something enough to want to buy it.
All the games on the download scene are just that, free advertising, and my Acekard is a mail box as I see it.
And if the game is not worthless crap, I usually buy it.

If Nintendo doesn't like this arrangement, too fucking bad.


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## UltraMagnus (May 4, 2010)

Panzer Tacticer said:
			
		

> "Under English law the Theft Act 1968....."
> 
> Worthless comment if you are not subject to English law of course.



Section 322 in Part 9 of the Criminal Code of Canada:
"a person steals a thing if he or she takes or converts it fraudulently, without colour of right and *with intent to deprive the owner of it*, either permanently or temporarily"

the Canadian definition seems much the same


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## Panzer Tacticer (May 5, 2010)

UltraMagnus said:
			
		

> Panzer Tacticer said:
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Don't give up your day job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




"With intent to deprive the owner of it" You might wish to clarify what is being deprived further.

Although I can attempt to discern, that the first portion of the phrase implies a lost sale which stolen thus depriving the owner of it. But that's the thrill of law isn't it. The implied statement is possible, but not specifically stated.

I wonder how many hear are aware that EULAs in Canada are not enforceable if not offered up to the consumer BEFORE the sale is conducted. Thus every time you install a program where you are required to say yes or no to an agreement, if you were unable to make this decision prior to purchase, the entire document is voided. Not that that will work with all manner of forms of digital products, especially where a EULA is not present or required.


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## Sterling (May 9, 2010)

If Nintendo, and all the other console companies would allow every game they sell to have a preview version (ie game devs make two different versions of the same game, but one will only play to a certain part, or only a few hours of multi-player, etc.) I think they would recieve sooo many more sales. In Nintendo's case, they should have a cart that allows you to download the preview versions from a site, and play them. They should bundle this with every handheld console. Everyone else needs to have some sort of service with the console. I know that if I could play a few (minutes to hours) of every game I might want to buy, I would buy so many more games! For now though, piracy is the answer!


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## Panzer Tacticer (May 9, 2010)

If Nintendo offered previews of what we all know is 9 times out of 10 total shit, I doubt it would help at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I have only regretted buying a couple of games for my Nintendo.

One was a military shooter, and I should have known a shooter on a small screen was an impossible idea.

The other was an arcade compilation, and yes, I suppose I should have just known better.


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## Skid00dshi (May 9, 2010)

Everyone pirates.  That is all.


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## InuYasha (May 9, 2010)

So many games go untranslated to many of us they should be thankful people still buy their shit these days....


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## Yuan (May 9, 2010)

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy

Emphatizing PC games piracy


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## CJL18 (May 9, 2010)

if the wii was like the ps3 and you couldnt play backups i would of never bought one.  SAme with psp back in 2007 i read about playing playstation 1 games on my psp with custom firmware and i was sold!  Games are expensive and most of them arent worth 20dollars let alone 50-60


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