# Gamasutra: Vita's biggest challenge - Convincing developers



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 29, 2012)

Sony Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida admitted he's disappointed by the lack of third party support for the handheld, but he told Gamasutra he's ready to show developers that the Vita is the right hardware for making games.

*Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is."* He said Sony needs to show third parties what Vita players buy, and what kind of games work best on the platform. At that point, Sony will be able to entice more developers to support the handheld.

"As we can expand our install base and articulate what works really well on the platform as compared to others, it will get easier for us to be able get support from third parties," he added.

"...In retrospect, there are so many options for publishers now that we cannot take it for granted that our new platform would be supported by third parties, like [it would've been] many years ago."

http://www.gamasutra...hp#.UGdZ-t4mS70

Well it's clear that the Vita has no chance of becoming a successful console like the PSP/DS (with sales worse than the Dreamcast). Losing Monster Hunter to the 3DS also reduces any chance of a revival for the system. All I hope is that the Vita manages to carve its own niche in Japan (it's dcompletely dead in the West) with some of the smaller Japanese games coming to the platform.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 29, 2012)

For someone who doesn't own a Vita, you sure do focus an awful lot on it's "failure". :3


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Sep 29, 2012)

soulx said:


> Sony Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida admitted he's disappointed by the lack of third party support for the handheld, but he told Gamasutra he's ready to show developers that the Vita is the right hardware for making games.
> 
> *Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is."* He said Sony needs to show third parties what Vita players buy, and what kind of games work best on the platform. At that point, Sony will be able to entice more developers to support the handheld.
> 
> ...



But bringing a Final Fantasy VII remake would make it god's gift.

Honestly, I think the only reason why the Vita isn't doing as good as the 3DS is:
-Obviously lack of games.
-The console does too much. Look at the 3DS, it's main focus is games, with a few small apps on the side.
-The console price.
-No advertising or marketing is being done for it. I don't see any anywhere.


----------



## emigre (Sep 29, 2012)

7 pages, 3 threats of violence and a great loss of dignity.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Sep 29, 2012)

"Vita" means "life". Sounds like 3rd party developers are having a hard time dealing with "life".


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

> *Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is."*.


It's a stronger PSP with a touchscreen and a second analog stick - two things the PSP lacked, along with some other goodies.

There, done. Now, was that so hard, Yoshida?



ShadowSoldier said:


> -Obviously lack of games.*//That's debatable. I can see quite a few titles I'd buy if I were a Vita owner.*
> -The console does too much. Look at the 3DS, it's main focus is games, with a few small apps on the side. *//Wat?*
> -The console price. *//Original 3DS price.*
> -No advertising or marketing is being done for it. I don't see any anywhere. *//That's a valid complaint, it should be "seen" more.*


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 29, 2012)

> (it's *dcompletely *dead in the West)


 

I honestly remember only seeing one person with a Vita.

Kind of harsh to say it has no chance of coming back tho.


Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > -The console price. *//Original 3DS price.*


I honestly didn't think that a valid point since it been so long and even with that price, it was doing better, but after
giving it more thought, I didn't see the point at all...


----------



## Veho (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > -The console price. *//Original 3DS price.*


...at which the 3DS didn't sell, and had to be dropped. 

Just saying.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

Veho said:


> ...at which the 3DS didn't sell, and had to be dropped.
> 
> Just saying.


The 3DS's price was unreasonable - it doesn't have the hardware to necessitate it. The Vita is too much of a beast to drop the price to a "3DS" level.


----------



## DiEnd (Sep 29, 2012)

*Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is."*

They don't even know what to do with it. This is too pathetic to laugh at.


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 29, 2012)

Sorry, mistake.  But I will say tho...



DiEnd said:


> *Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is."*
> 
> They don't even know what to do with it


Does this make it seem like they release this without a true target/goal?


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Veho said:
> 
> 
> > ...at which the 3DS didn't sell, and had to be dropped.
> ...



But it has unneccesary junk in it to make it that price. Skype? Facebook?

In all honesty, they tried too much to make it a portable home console than a portable handheld.


----------



## BORTZ (Sep 29, 2012)

soulx said:


> Well it's clear that the Vita has no chance of becoming a successful console like the PSP/DS (with sales worse than the Dreamcast *Which died thanks to the loss of fans from the Saturn, the dreamcast is great, but no one bought it because everyone was waiting fo the PS2 and shiz. Im pretty sure...*). Losing Monster Hunter to the 3DS also reduces any chance of a revival for the system. All I hope is that the Vita manages to carve its own niche in Japan (it's completely dead in the West) with some of the smaller Japanese games coming to the platform.


Well i mean theres no way you can know that, considering the Vita is a relatively new system. BUT losing Monster Hunter is kinda a big deal. But im sure the Vita will pull through. I mean i didnt get a PSP later into its life, and i have found there are some really good titles. 
The Vita is a powerhouse, and im sure devs can make a good case for it. And i dont know, i have friends that have Vitas...


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> But it has unneccesary junk in it to make it that price. Skype? Facebook?
> 
> In all honesty, they tried too much to make it a portable home console than a portable handheld.


If I remember correctly, the DSi had a Facebook app as well, and Skype has been on Sony handhelds almost since their dawn, minus the E-1000 because it doesn't have WiFi and the PSP-1000 because it doesn't have enough RAM to facilitate seamless operation.

They don't really ramp up the price - what ramps it up is an expensive CPU/GPU, the 3DS's pale in comparison which makes all the difference.


----------



## DiEnd (Sep 29, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Do this make it seem like they release this without a true target/goal?


No. I'm saying that it seems they can't decide what should they do with Vita now.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > But it has unneccesary junk in it to make it that price. Skype? Facebook?
> ...



Well maybe Sony went wrong by ramping all of that stuff into it. Honestly, I think they're either going to have to do a redesign for the handheld to only concentrate mainly on games like the 3DS to lower the price. Or.. just simply lower the price now.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Well maybe Sony went wrong by ramping all of that stuff into it. Honestly, I think they're either going to have to do a redesign for the handheld to only concentrate mainly on games like the 3DS to lower the price. Or.. just simply lower the price now.


The Vita follows in the footsteps of the PS3 for now - like its home console predecessor, it's sold at a high price, it has a slow start and it's for an initially niche market which grows slowly as the library gets bigger until the console becomes popular with a big crowd. It will get a price drop when the components become cheaper and it will have a rather impressive life span due to its specs chosen with "tomorrow" in mind rather than "today".


----------



## Gahars (Sep 29, 2012)

Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Well maybe Sony went wrong by ramping all of that stuff into it. Honestly, I think they're either going to have to do a redesign for the handheld to only concentrate mainly on games like the 3DS to lower the price. Or.. just simply lower the price now.
> ...


The PS3 is a home-console and had big games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII announced for it  so we know support would be coming for it. And specs don't dictate the success of a console, Foxi4. The Vita could very well have the most impressive tech in a handheld to date but that means nothing without a good game library. Not only that but better specs means increased development costs making developers even more wary of working on the platform.

The life-span of a console has nothing to do with the specs. The PS2 lasted pretty long even though it was the weakest of that generation. Game library and sales matter more than that.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

soulx said:


> The PS3 is a home-console and had big games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII announced for it  so we know support would be coming for it. Specs don't dictate the success of a console, Foxi4. The Vita could very well have the most impressive tech in a handheld to date but that means nothing without a good game library. Not only that but better specs means increased development costs making developers even more wary of working on the platform.
> 
> The life-span of a console has nothing to do with the specs. The PS2 lasted pretty long even though it was the weakest of that generation.


And said games didn't grow on a tree - someone made them first. As I said, the system will sell as the library grows - the Vita has all the time it needs. The PS3 showed quite well that consoles can have a slow start and dominate the market a few years later. Specs are incredibly important, soulx - they dictate the longevity of the system as well as the conditions of development. The less limits a programmer has the better, and the Vita opens many previously closed doors. Developers simply need to be given the time and the incentive to develop for it. Higher specs don't necessarily mean higher development costs - it's entirely up to the developer how many resources should be used.

...but just to make your life feel complete, Vita's MGS4 and FFXIII for now are Call of Duty: Black Ops - Declassified, Killzone: Mercenary, Assassin's Creed: Liberation and Soul Sacrifice.


----------



## Clarky (Sep 29, 2012)

All I will say about the Vita is I do think there is an indentity crisis right now for the Vita. I recall back before prelaunch there was apparently videos of Metal Gear Solid 4 running on it and (from memory) a lot of PS3 games shown running on it.  I recall someone I know saying "why should I buy a PS3 when he could buy a Vita and get the same experience?" Now a days I see the likes of Mortal Kombat, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, Final Fantasy X HD, Lego Batman 2, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, Playstation All Star Battle Royale, Rayman Origins, Sly Cooper Thieves In Time, Street Fighter X Tekken and a few more, at an ignorance glance it does seem like the Vita is just merely a portable PS3. Then again some of the Vita games being made appear to try and be flogging a "console experience" rather than say a "vita" experience. Only other thing I can slate it for is 3g model, many had hopes and dreams of being able to play online games on the go yet nobody seems to have found a real use for it. Besides that I reckon the Vita will its feet with some great exclusives eventually


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> And said games didn't grow on a tree - someone made them first. As I said, the system will sell as the library grows - the Vita has all the time it needs. The PS3 showed quite well that consoles can have a slow start and dominate the market a few years later. Specs are incredibly important, soulx - they dictate the longevity of the system as well as the conditions of development. The less limits a programmer has the better, and the Vita opens many previously closed doors. Developers simply need to be given the time and the incentive to develop for it. Higher specs don't necessarily mean higher development costs - it's entirely up to the developer how many resources should be used.
> 
> ...but just to make your life feel complete, Vita's MGS4 and FFXIII for now are Call of Duty: Black Ops - Declassified, Killzone: Mercenary, Assassin's Creed: Liberation and Soul Sacrifice.


Specs don't dictate the lifespan of a console. It's silly to say that. The game-library and sales are the biggest factors.

I brought up those games because we knew about them during the PS3 launch. Games were coming. I know I sound like a broken record to others since I've said this already but with the Vita, there is no assurance. There are no high-profile system-selling games announced for 2013. After the holiday season, there's _*absolutely nothing*_.

Higher specs do mean higher development costs because developers have to make games that take advantage of the platform if they want their game to sell well. Imagine if someone released a game that looked like a PS2 game visually on the PS3, no one would take it seriously. Right now, it's cheaper to make games for the 3DS than it is for the Vita. Not only that but one platform is selling craploads while the other is dying, if you were a publisher, which one would you choose?

And the PS3 is not dominating the market. Not by a long-shot. In the West, the 360 is currently the best-selling system. In Japan, the PS3 is the best-selling console (_right now_) simply because there aren't any alternatives now (Wii is now dead while the 360 was DOA). In terms of life-time sales, the Wii is ahead of it having sold 32.66 million units more as of June 2012.

Call of Duty: Black Ops and Assassin's Creed are not comparable at all to the PS3 games I've mentioned. One is a spin-off developed by a B-team (the former) while the other is a mainline entry in one of the biggest franchises worldwide. Call of Duty spin-offs on older handheld platforms have not been very successful nor do they have any of the clout that the home console versions have so what makes you think this spin-off will make a difference?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

soulx said:


> *yadayadayada*


The PS3 is currently the fastest-selling video game system, and it's only 3 mil units behind the 360 in total sales - a difference it can still make up - they're going head-to-head, really, so I'd say it turned out pretty well for a system which started at a snail's face. The Wii sold more units simply because it was affordable, not because it was any good. It's the go-to system for all the parents and grandparents buying gifts for children, it's kid friendly so it ramps up the sales. True fact.

Portable CoD games didn't sell well because they were *crap*, not because there was no interest in them. Not to mention that they were on the DS, so they suffered from the "amma gonna downloldeet" syndrome most DS titles had.

I had a feeling you wouldn't like the my game choices for the comparison, but don't worry, you can carry on thinking the way you do.

Vita's sales will get a significant boost when so-called "desirable" titles are released, and seeing that quite a few are on the way, I have no worries.


----------



## Veho (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The 3DS's price was unreasonable - it doesn't have the hardware to necessitate it. The Vita is too much of a beast to drop the price to a "3DS" level.


Yes but that's not the point. "It cost as much as another console that didn't sell well at the price either" doesn't justify the price. The hardware might, but Sony needs to work on the marketing. Is it worth the $250? Yes. Does enough people think so? No. That's where marketing should step in. But it didn't.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

Veho said:


> Yes but that's not the point. "It cost as much as another console that didn't sell well at the price either" doesn't justify the price. The hardware might, but Sony needs to work on the marketing. Is it worth the $250? Yes. Does enough people think so? No. That's where marketing should step in. But it didn't.


Yyyyep.

Sony originally assumed that they will advertise the system as a "handheld for the grown-up gamers", but that obviously didn't work. There's not a whole lot of "grown-up gamers" - people just stop at some point and, y'know, _have lives, unlike most of us_. The marketing team behind the Vita actually acknowledged that an there's a media campaign in the working that's supposed to showcase the Vita as a system accessible to all audiences, or so I've heard/read. We'll see where that goes.


----------



## Lurker2 (Sep 29, 2012)

You really don't know how many consoles were bought due to failure of the 360/PS3. It is quite possible 360s sold higher because people bought multiple consoles and we both know PS3 had problems with failures but possibly in lower numbers. Squaretrade statistics claim the PS3 had a lower failure rate but overall who knows.

Currently a lot of gamers are saying CoD on the Vita will be bad and the developer doesn't have the best track record. It might sell well it might not. Lets just not jump to conclusion about the game just yet without better data to backup our claims.

Soul Sacrifice is the only game coming out for the Vita after the Holidays that might be any good and Killzone doesn't have a release date yet. I think the system would benefit from more ports of PS3 games making it more of a portable PS3 but that is just me.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 29, 2012)

For the record, I don't see much of anything announced for the 3DS for the first quarter of 2013 in NA, either.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

Lurker2 said:


> You really don't know how many consoles were bought due to failure of the 360/PS3. It is quite possible 360s sold higher because people bought multiple consoles and we both know PS3 had problems with failures but possibly in lower numbers. Squaretrade statistics claim the PS3 had a lower failure rate but overall who knows.


You really don't know how many DS's were bought due to constant revisions of the system and its following _successor_, the DSi (yes, I maintain that opinion. Always have, always will - bite me). Common Sense and my Glorious Powers of Observation claim that numerous people bought several DS/DSi systems, ramping up the sales to a ridiculous number.

See? Anyone can make an infertile comment. Lots of 360'ties died - fair play. Lots were sent to Microsoft and lots were fixed. Same goes to the PS3, really. Just so you know, Wii's failed in the past as well - I've seen several threads where people had problems with a malfunctioning GPU and artifacting. Not to the degree of the YLOD or the RROD, but still. Electronics die sometimes, it's life.


----------



## Valwin (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Sony originally assumed that they will advertise the system as a "handheld for the grown-up gamers", but that obviously didn't work.



it dint work because grown-up gamers want a device that haves games something vita lacks

sony should have cut the hardware specs and focus on so software


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

soulx and Valwin in one thread about the Vita - yup, it's time to bail.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The PS3 is currently the fastest-selling video game system, and it's only 3 mil units behind the 360 in total sales - a difference it can still make up - they're going head-to-head, really, so I'd say it turned out pretty well for a system which started at a snail's face. The Wii sold more units simply because it was affordable, not because it was any good. It's the go-to system for all the parents and grandparents buying gifts for children, it's kid friendly so it ramps up the sales. True fact.
> 
> Portable CoD games didn't sell well because they were *crap*, not because there was no interest in them. Not to mention that they were on the DS, so they suffered from the "amma gonna downloldeet" syndrome most DS titles had.
> 
> ...


The PS3 is not the fastest-selling video game system. Please don't make up stats.

Look at the July 2012 NPD sales analysis, the PS3 sold ~150k units while the 360 sold 203k. June 2012 NPD, the PS3 sold 195k while the 360 sold 257k. Worldwide sales figure put the PS3 at 63.9 million and the 360 a 67.2 million. While the PS3 may be selling well in Japan, I've already explain that it's because there isn't any other viable home console platform right now in that region.

This isn't a thread for you to hate on the Wii. I'm not discussing *why *those consoles sold well but simply disproving that the "PS3 dominated the market".

If that is indeed why portable COD games sold like crap, then following that logic, the Vita game should sell like crap too. It looks like a PS2 game in terms of graphics, it only has 4v4 multiplayer and it's made by Nihilistic Software, a developer known for making _crappy _games.

Obviously Vita sales would increase if system-selling titles were released but that isn't happening. There aren't any big system-selling games announced and if it continues to sell like this, there won't be any.

@[member='TwinRetro']

http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4229253

But this isn't a thread to discuss the 3DS. Feel free to make one, though.


----------



## Lurker2 (Sep 29, 2012)

I was just trying to point out it is possible the number is skewed due to that. I was not trying to argue about failure of devices. I know they fail time to time but one many fail more often then the other causing the sales number to be higher.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

Just gonna drop this here and leave you guys to it, you seem to be making a good use of this thead, have fun!


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Sep 29, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?



I'd think so. Take my dad for example. He doesn't have a smart phone or anything, he has an old phone that he just uses for texting and calling. a 25 minute pre-paid card will last him for a year and a half. I asked him why he doesn't get a smart phone considering he can read his ebooks, listen to his radio, watch videos and such, and he just simply said:

"There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".

But I guess ultimately, it depends on the person. But still, there are people out there who think like that.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 29, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Just gonna drop this here and leave you guys to it, you seem to be making a good use of this thead, have fun!


>VGChartz

Just stop. Sales data there is not reliable. They make up stats (or as they put it, "educated guesses").

And come the fuck on. When you realize the flaws in your argument, you go "OH NO SOULX AND VALWIN, THE FANBOYS" and leave. It's not witty nor is it amusing.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Say what you will about the Vita, but can "too many features" really be used as a downside?
> ...



So efficiency and convenience are bad because some people might find it too confusing?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I'd think so. *Take my dad for example.* (...) "There's too much stuff on there that makes the phone too confusing to navigate and it's all useless to me. If I have an eReader, I don't need to read books on my phone. I have a portable radio tuner, so I don't need the tuner. I watch videos and browse the internet when I get to work. There's no need for me to be constantly checking the internet every 2 minutes".


Your dad is not the average target for electronics of this kind though - smartphones are made with young people in mind, that's why they allow for such a wide variety of interactions. Video game consoles follow the same route - they're made for a specific target, gamers. Gamers are also mostly young, so to me, it makes sense to include certain "smart" functionality. I totally shouldn't be here - I feel like a naughty school kid playing with matches. _*snickers*_


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Sep 29, 2012)

Gahars said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Gahars said:
> ...



No. I'm just saying with all that stuff, there are people who might look at it as too confusing and would deter away from it for something more simpler.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > ShadowSoldier said:
> ...



As Foxi noted, I don't think there's much of an overlap between the "gamer" and "confused by greater functionality" demographics.

Plus, even if a person found the offered features to be too much, no one from Sony is going to put you in a choke hold and force you to use them. If you'd rather use the Vita strictly as a gaming device, you easily can; if you want to get more out of it, the option is always there.


----------



## Bobbyloujo (Sep 30, 2012)

I honestly wish there were more games for the Vita. It's essentially a handheld PS3. With real analog sticks and the graphics capabilities that the device offers I bet it'd be a really enjoyable system to play if there were only some good games for it... As for the type of game, I think all types of games would work. The Vita, being so much like a home console, should have no problem playing any kind of game.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

I ditched my 3DS for a vita months ago.
The only time I touch my 3DS is to wipe the thick layer of dust that has formed on the top of it.

'Dead' or not, this thing has kept me entertained for ages. Going to be using the crap out of it when Zero Escape is released, since the superior version is on Vita.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 30, 2012)

I haven't studied the matter extensively, but I feel the main problem with the Vita's sales, especially compared to the 3DS, isn't necessarily that it's "too powerful" in general, but that its too close in power to its console counterpart. Let's look at them individually.

The 3DS. It was released early 2011, when the Wii was largely considered a dead or near-dead system by many. The Wii had its trademark motion controls, but the 3DS provided a more "traditional" handheld experience, albeit with the dual screens and touchscreen of the DS, plus 3D. A high price point and lack of games made for a poor launch, but this was rectified with the release of triple A first party games and a price drop towards the end of the year. By the time the Vita came out about a year after the 3DS, the 3DS already had a rather established library and great sales to convince developers to make games for it, as well as the fact that it was probably just a more promising investment than the Wii to most developers.

Now the Vita released a year behind the 3DS. In addition to having a lackluster library, it was released in wake of a still-going-strong companion console, the PS3 (unlike the Wii, which was lacking at this point). Aside from that, the handheld felt like a mini version of the PS3 in some ways. In addition to being afraid of taking a risk developing for the Vita, devs felt called to the 3DS, which already had proven itself with sales and a bigger library. And even more so, the PS3 was competing against the Vita, in a way. The Vita could output near-console graphics, but being a much-less proven system, what motivation do developers have to make a "handheld console game" for the Vita, when it could just go ahead and make a higher-definition version of the same game on the PS3, which has a much more proven fanbase?

So in conclusion, I think it boils down to mainly the fact that A) the 3DS had a year head start and was successful, and B) the Vita was too much, both too soon and too late. Had the 3DS not been released a year before and become successful, and had the Vita either been less of a powerhouse, or perhaps been released AFTER the next generation of consoles came out, it might have done better.

Anyway, sorry if that's jumbled and poorly written and makes no sense. I wrote it off and on over the course on an hour while juggling other things, and I'm really tired. But that's just my personal guess of what might have happened.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Going to be using the crap out of it when Zero Escape is released, since the superior version is on Vita.


Actually the 3DS one is arguably superior.

Clearly you haven't seen this list.
http://gbatemp.net/topic/327333-nintendo-3ds-game-recommendation-thread/


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > Going to be using the crap out of it when Zero Escape is released, since the superior version is on Vita.
> ...


In _your opinion_, the way I see it, the Vita's screen is wider. Fair enough, it doesn't have *2* screens, but I don't think it's short of space.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> In _your opinion_, the way I see it, the Vita's screen is wider. Fair enough, it doesn't have *2* screens, but I don't think it's short of space.


Two screens and 3D make the 3DS version superior. I mean, the only difference with the Vita version is a marginally bigger screen (4.88 in. vs. 5 in.) and a higher resolution which doesn't make much of a difference for this kind of game.

The Vita version requires you to overlap the text during a puzzle while you can just move the handwritten stuff to the top-screen. Less clutter.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Two screens and 3D make the 3DS version superior. I mean, the only difference with the Vita version is a marginally bigger screen (4.88 in. vs. 5 in.) and a higher resolution which doesn't make much of a difference for this kind of game.
> 
> The Vita version requires you to overlap the text during a puzzle while you can just move the handwritten stuff to the top-screen. Less clutter.


The Vita version on the otherhand has a higher resolution and a bigger screen, which does matter as far as 3D content is concerned, since from what I can see on the screen, it can fit two people on one screen during conversations, unlike the 3DS one which fits just one person. It improves the overall experience, so at the end of the day, it's a matter of taste.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Two screens and 3D make the 3DS version superior. I mean, the only difference with the Vita version is a marginally bigger screen (4.88 in. vs. 5 in.) and a higher resolution which doesn't make much of a difference for this kind of game.
> ...


The comparison pics are from different scenes. Both games fit the same amount of people. _Arguably _the 3DS version is superior (since two screens provides less clutter, 3D enhances game for some and similar sized screen). Both versions are good so let's just end this silly debate.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> The comparison pics are from different scenes. Both games fit the same amount of people. _Arguably _the 3DS version is superior (since two screens provides less clutter, 3D enhances game for some and similar sized screen). Both versions are good so let's just end this silly debate.


Agreed, to me they're two near-identical games and the choice runs down to which console you own. Either can be "superior" according to different people, but always for superficial and arguable reasons.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > Going to be using the crap out of it when Zero Escape is released, since the superior version is on Vita.
> ...



Arguably indeed. I'll stick to my vita version.

and what list? You just linked me to a whole ton of crap games with a few gems, all of which i've played, mixed in.
Oh and a bunch of unreleased games I can't play on my REGION LOCKED 3DS.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> a bunch of unreleased games I can't play on my REGION LOCKED 3DS.


That list is created with all regions in mind, that's why.


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> and what list? You just linked me to a whole ton of crap games with a few gems, all of which i've played, mixed in.
> Oh and a bunch of unreleased games I can't play on my REGION LOCKED 3DS.


While I didn't want to see this turn into a Vita vs 3ds thread and I didn't agree with your statement nor the following statement, the same can be said about the Vita too.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Arguably indeed. I'll stick to my vita version.
> 
> and what list? You just linked me to a whole ton of crap games with a few gems, all of which i've played, mixed in.
> Oh and a bunch of unreleased games I can't play on my REGION LOCKED 3DS.


Crap games? Almost every game on that list is stellar. Either you have horrible taste or you've played every single game that's worth owning on the system (which I doubt).


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Sep 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Just gonna drop this here and leave you guys to it, you seem to be making a good use of this thead, have fun!




Wow I know you posted that chart to show that the PS3 was beating the 360 in sales gains (It actually points to the opposite.) while both gained in sales the 360 gained 4% on an already larger number while the PS3 gained 2% on a smaller number....

But look at those Vita numbers, holy hell the system is flopping. I wouldn't call the Vita dead yet but it needs some massive life support thats for sure. 

This is the #1 problem facing the Vita right now bar none, extremely slow system sales. No system sales = no game sales = no developer support = no system sales... It's a really nasty cycle to be in.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Sep 30, 2012)

You know these "Vita sucks in sales so let's hate on it more" threads really make GBAtemp the best community on the internet.

Fair and balanced.


----------



## DaggerV (Sep 30, 2012)

Nowadays, no matter how good something is, if it didn't make a lot of money, it was a failure.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 30, 2012)

DaggerV said:


> Nowadays, no matter how good something is, if it didn't make a lot of money, it was a failure.



Nowadays? I think people have had that view for a long, long while.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

DaggerV said:


> Nowadays, no matter how good something is, if it didn't make a lot of money, it was a failure.


derp


No really?


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Sep 30, 2012)

DaggerV said:


> Nowadays, no matter how good something is, if it didn't make a lot of money, it was a failure.



Nowadays? I am pretty sure that fact has been true pretty much since the invention of money and business. 

Make absolutely no mistake about it, Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo could give a rats ass how great or how much something sucks, as long as it makes money for them.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > Arguably indeed. I'll stick to my vita version.
> ...



It's funny how opinions are valid, unless they're against the 3DS.
Isn't that funny?

I find it funny.



actually it's not funny it really isn't you filthy Nintendo fanboys.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> It's funny how opinions are valid, unless they're against the 3DS.
> Isn't that funny?
> 
> I find it funny.
> ...


I think the PS2 is the worst console ever released.

That's just my _opinion_. You can't say I have bad taste because _I_ just don't like most PS2 games.


Are you going to argue about how that opinion is wrong? Sure you can have an opinion but it can still be wrong.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 30, 2012)




----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > It's funny how opinions are valid, unless they're against the 3DS.
> ...




Not entirely sure where you're going with that.
You disliked the PS2?

...oh?

Cool I guess. Whatever floats your boat. I was a gamecube man myself but I like to keep an open mind about consoles. But hey you can hate whatever you want, why would I care.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Not entirely sure where you're going with that.
> You disliked the PS2?
> 
> ...oh?
> ...


>missing the point

It's that you can have an opinion but it can still be wrong.

Calling the PS2 the worst console ever is an example. It's certainly not the worst console ever compared to stuff like the N-Gage.

If you don't have any valid reasoning behind your opinion then I'll say it's wrong.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > Not entirely sure where you're going with that.
> ...



What if someone enjoyed the PS2 less than stuff like the N-Gage?


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> I think the PS2 is the worst console ever released.
> 
> That's just my _opinion_. You can't say I have bad taste because _I_ just don't like most PS2 games.
> 
> ...


If you think that, Why did you say that the only reason hells would dislike most of the games on the recommendations thread is because he has "horrible taste" or played all those games? It works both ways, dude.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> What if someone enjoyed the PS2 less than stuff like the N-Gage?


If he just goes, "The PS2's library is crap" and gives no solid reasoning as to why he thinks that, then yeah he has a shit opinion.

@[member='xwatchmanx']
Nah, he dismissed that list as having a whole ton of crap games. No reasoning was given as to why. Of course he's going to be called out on it.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Sep 30, 2012)

Simply put, you buy a handheld for a handheld experience. You buy a console for a console experience. Sony is trying to market the Vita with a console experience when people can buy a real console for that. Not only that, but by trying to offer a console experience, it is rivaling with the company's own console, the PS3, which as Foxi4 pointed out, is the fastest-selling console for this year.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> If you don't have any valid reasoning behind your opinion then I'll say it's wrong.


That should only be the case if someone's opinion is something objective.

"None of the games on the 3DS are good." = Objective opinion

"I don't think any of the games on 3DS are good.." = subjective opinion

An objective opinion can be called wrong, no problem. If someone says the 3DS factually has no good games, you can counter with a list of games that you enjoyed and/or got great review scores. But a subjective opinion should never be called "wrong." It can be called crazy, stupid, ludicrous, but to call a subjective opinion "wrong" is just plain stupid and arrogant.



soulx said:


> @[member='xwatchmanx']
> Nah, he dismissed that list as having a whole ton of crap games. No reasoning was given as to why. Of course he's going to be called out on it.


Point taken. But there's a difference between "calling someone out" for not giving reasoning for their opinion, and saying they're wrong.



DiscostewSM said:


> Simply put, you buy a handheld for a handheld experience. You buy a console for a console experience. Sony is trying to market the Vita with a console experience when people can buy a real console for that. Not only that, but by trying to offer a console experience, it is rivaling with the company's own console, the PS3, which as Foxi4 pointed out, is the fastest-selling console for this year.


Which is sort of a shorter version of that long post I made last night.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > What if someone enjoyed the PS2 less than stuff like the N-Gage?
> ...



Why would I make a giant list of reasons why the games are crap just to preach to a Nintendo fanboy.
I still don't get your logic son.
They don't appeal to me, therefore they are crap, IMO. Sorry I thought that was implied in my blindingly obvious statement.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Why would I make a giant list of reasons why the games are crap just to preach to a Nintendo fanboy.
> I still don't get your logic son.
> They don't appeal to me, therefore they are crap, IMO. Sorry I thought that was implied in my blindingly obvious statement.


"If you disagree with me, you're a Nintendo fanboy."


Just stop. Fair play, the 3DS library doesn't appeal to you. Just don't go dismissing an entire list of games (that lots enjoy) as crap and stating it like it's a fact.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > Why would I make a giant list of reasons why the games are crap just to preach to a Nintendo fanboy.
> ...



It is a fact, in my opinion.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Sep 30, 2012)

I would like to say that it has been scientifically proven that the PS2 has the best game library ever.

EDIT: I would also like to say this on opinions on internet forums as many people have been subject to sphincter sorrow due to my posts containing "facts" which are just "opinions".

If you say something on an internet forum and you don't cite it or it's not factually known, it's an opinion.

If I say "The 3DS has no games" then it's an opinion. I don't need a disclaimer on it. I said it, it's not known factually and I didn't site any source, so it's an opinion.

If I say "Most 3DS games have 3D", that's a fact. It's widely known and doesn't need citing, and, if needed, I can cite it.

If I say "According to blahblahblah.com, 3DS games come in sizes ranging from 2-4GB in size", that's a fact. And I cited it since it may not be widely known.

So a PSA to GBAtempers: Stop getting so fucking butthurt over people saying things that are OBVIOUSLY opinions because you somehow can't decipher opinion from fact unless a disclaimer is put on it.

Jesus Christ...


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> If I say "The 3DS has no games" then it's an opinion. I don't need a disclaimer on it. I said it, it's not known factually and I didn't site any source, so it's an opinion.


That isn't an opinion. Saying that the 3DS has no games is factually incorrect since it can be proven that the system does indeed have games.


If you say, "I think the 3DS has no good games", then that's an opinion.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > If I say "The 3DS has no games" then it's an opinion. I don't need a disclaimer on it. I said it, it's not known factually and I didn't site any source, so it's an opinion.
> ...



Saying "The 3DS has no games" pretty much implies "It has no good games".


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


So why not just say "I _think _it has no _good _games" instead of "The 3DS has no games"?

The former removes any room for misinterpreting it as a fact.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 30, 2012)

TL;DR version of Guild's rant


----------



## DiscostewSM (Sep 30, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > If I say "The 3DS has no games" then it's an opinion. I don't need a disclaimer on it. I said it, it's not known factually and I didn't site any source, so it's an opinion.
> ...



soulx, you just condemned yourself if you should you ever use the phrase "The Vita has no games" based on your logic above (though I can't recall if you ever said it prior to this time).


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> soulx, you just condemned yourself if you should you ever use the phrase "The Vita has no games" based on your logic above (though I can't recall if you ever said it prior to this time).


Well I've never said that so...


I generally go by "The Vita has no compelling games" or something along the lines of that.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Sep 30, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> TL;DR version of Guild's rant



That's basically every thread like this. In all honesty, who approaches a thread like this and thinks "Well, this is going to end well." They never do, they're always terrible, it always ends with a bunch of lame ass bullshit. Like there's no point on why these threads exist outside of dramamongering.


----------



## Clarky (Sep 30, 2012)

If people was willing to stop bringing console wars into this, the threads could work.After all, all Soulx posted was a comment from one of Sony's higher ups about how the Vita needed to create a clear image of what it is and what it is about.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 30, 2012)

Related news:

*Inafune: Vita won't benefit from a lot of otaku games*

"*The idea is to have a game that Western audiences will find appealing, while also making sure that it will also sell well here in Japan*," Inafune told the PlayStation Blog. "*The Western audience must feel willing to play this game. PS Vita is not going to benefit if you just have a lot of otaku games on it - you need something like this. It needs dark and deep titles like Soul Sacrifice."*

http://www.shacknews...taku-games-says



Guild McCommunist said:


> That's basically every thread like this. In all honesty, who approaches a thread like this and thinks "Well, this is going to end well." They never do, they're always terrible, it always ends with a bunch of lame ass bullshit. Like there's no point these threads should exist outside of dramamongering.


These threads would be fine if you guys didn't constantly bitch and moan about it. For the first couple of pages, it's all reasonable discussion so just quit whining.

Posting a news thread about the Vita not doing well = not trolling or "_dramamongering_"
Posting a news thread where a Sony executive discusses the Vita = not trolling or "_dramamongering_"

Why was this fine but all of sudden, when it's about the Vita, "OH MY GOD, THE NINTENDO FANBOYS ARE EVERYWHERE".


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 30, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > TL;DR version of Guild's rant
> ...



You forgot they also lead to assblasting and blatant fanboyism.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Sep 30, 2012)

clarky said:


> If people was willing to stop bringing console wars into this, the threads could work.After all, all Soulx posted was a comment from one of Sony's higher ups about how the Vita needed to create a clear image of what it is and what it is about.



On an internet forum about video games, you may as well ask for a utopian communist society. It's great and all but it's never gonna happen.

I'm also a bit tired of the "don't shoot the messenger" thing here. We didn't need this message, it wasn't important news at all. If it was we'd have it in the USN but we've basically put a ban on it. I see these threads pop up like weeds in General Gaming and once they hit my little news feed I know exactly what to expect. It's gonna be a circlejerk of hating and a bunch of poo flinging. Eventually it gets locked, a mod gives a stern finger wag to everyone involved, and then we wait a couple of days for the next pile of poo to appear on our lawn.

EDIT: I think there's a difference between a messenger and a demagogue.

Speaking of which, I think now is a good time for a lock.






MOD TEAM ASSEMBLE.


----------



## Black-Ice (Sep 30, 2012)

emigre said:


> 7 pages, 3 threats of violence and a great loss of dignity.


Well, lets review how far this prediction went?


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 30, 2012)

Black-Ice said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > 7 pages, 3 threats of violence and a great loss of dignity.
> ...



We're not at seven pages yet, I haven't read any threats yet and anyone who posted seriously in this thread had no dignity to begin with.


----------



## Clarky (Sep 30, 2012)

it is much to hope for that people could be mature about it yes, but perhaps we should just have a thread where people can go apeshit and argue about there favourite consoles somewhere? Just seems silly that when some Sony higher up mentions what the company is going to attempt to do business wise we get a load of haters going "Well at least it is not a 3DS" as an excuse for all shortcomings


----------



## raulpica (Sep 30, 2012)

Page 5 convinced me that there is no hope for this thread.

Closed.


----------

