# Leaders blame Russia-Europe pipeline leaks on sabotage (Nord Stream)



## SScorpio (Sep 28, 2022)

_Sabotage is the most likely cause of leaks in two Baltic Sea gas pipelines between Russia and Europe, European leaders said Tuesday, after seismologists reported explosions around the Nord Stream pipelines._

https://news.yahoo.com/sabotage-suspected-nord-stream-pipeline-100001372.html


No gas for Europe, this is going to turn really back really quickly.


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## SScorpio (Sep 28, 2022)

A little more information for people on why this is a big deal.

The Nord Stream are a pair of pipelines that carry natural gas from Russia to Germany. Do to sanctions due to Ukraine, they haven't been delivering gas. And Russia itself shutdown delivery claiming repairs for leaks.

But the issue is German and other European countries that rely on Russian natural gas don't have the storage capacity to keep a full winters needs in reserve. The largest can handle about a month of demand.

With this even if the winter is bad Germany can't crawl back to the table and negotiate Russia starting the sending of gas back up. Energy prices were already approaching 4x last year's price, and it looks like things will be getting even worse.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 28, 2022)

It was probably Donald Trump, or Mussolini.


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## SScorpio (Sep 28, 2022)

Acid_Snake said:


> It was probably Donald Trump, or Mussolini.


I recall someone else who's good at killing off pipelines.


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## ghjfdtg (Sep 28, 2022)

It's not as big of an issue as you might think because as you mentioned, they didn't deliver any gas anymore anyway. The stored gas capacity is just about enough for a mild winter and more gas is coming in liquid form. Of course this is gonna be very expensive compared to russian gas but there is no other option.


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## Viri (Sep 28, 2022)

Hitler getting revenge on Russia.


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## SScorpio (Sep 28, 2022)

ghjfdtg said:


> It's not as big of an issue as you might think because as you mentioned, they didn't deliver any gas anymore anyway. The stored gas capacity is just about enough for a mild winter and more gas is coming in liquid form. Of course this is gonna be very expensive compared to russian gas but there is no other option.


I hope that's the case but around here we had a short but hot summer with a record number of 32C+ days, but it ended very quickly and we already aren't hitting 21C, I had to switch on the furnace already this week as it was getting down to about 6C at night and today only hit 14.4C as a high.

I have a feeling we're going to get hit with a long stretch of down to -26C in January.


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## Glyptofane (Sep 29, 2022)

ghjfdtg said:


> It's not as big of an issue as you might think because as you mentioned, they didn't deliver any gas anymore anyway. The stored gas capacity is just about enough for a mild winter and more gas is coming in liquid form. Of course this is gonna be very expensive compared to russian gas but there is no other option.


It's a very big deal. Certain European states were starting to get cold feet on the sanctions and now the incentive for walking back their positions against Russia has been removed from the picture. The infrastructure needed for the volume of LNG to fully offset Russian gas is years away. This is a bigger problem than people just roughing it in their cold homes for winter as the cost is already so prohibitively high that European businesses and factories are shutting down which means less jobs, less goods to market, and general bad times ahead.

The pipeline may have been Russian property, but the US/Ukraine has effectively now directly attacked Europe to guarantee that their insane war against Russia can continue. There's no way back now.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

I wouldn't put it past Putin to have sabotaged their own pipeline, as Russia has been ramping up false flag attacks lately in attempt to get more people on their side.  A lot of FUD surrounding this particular topic though, so it's impossible to know for sure.


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## stanna (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I wouldn't put it past Putin to have sabotaged their own pipeline, as Russia has been ramping up false flag attacks lately in attempt to get more people on their side.  A lot of FUD surrounding this particular topic though, so it's impossible to know for sure.


America did it, all putin needed to do was press  a button to stop the gas, Biden even said in a interview a couple of months back he would.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

stanna said:


> America did it, all putin needed to do was press  a button to stop the gas, Biden even said in a interview a couple of months back he would.


If Putin pressed the button then everybody would know it was Russia, which doesn't work as much to his advantage as being able to blame it on the US does.  All the Russian bots/troll farms being on the same page with the narrative makes me far less likely to believe the US was involved.  And I'm not referring specifically to this site, but rather across all social media.

Putin also has a very long history of using false flag attacks, it's how he seized power in the first place.  So that's something that has to be taken into consideration.  If it wasn't Russia, then I'm more inclined to believe it was a group of activists/saboteurs acting independently of any nation's wishes.


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## stanna (Sep 29, 2022)

Here let me make it nice and simple for you,   https://www.banned.video/watch?id=63344ff57f97ef1f921943a9


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

stanna said:


> Here let me make it nice and simple for you,   https://www.banned.video/watch?id=63344ff57f97ef1f921943a9


This simplifies nothing, as the invasion began months ago and the US has been putting diplomatic pressure on Germany to end their reliance on Russian gas/oil ever since.  Ukraine is blaming Russia, Russia is blaming the US, and Germany is blaming independent saboteurs.  Like I already said, there's a bunch of FUD surrounding this topic, so anybody who is "certain" they know the identity of the responsible party is full of shit, yourself apparently included.


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## stanna (Sep 29, 2022)

The video is a interview with Biden saying he is going to do this, but if course it was someone else


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## ut2k4master (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> No gas for Europe, this is going to turn really back really quickly.


there is no gas coming through those pipes anyway


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## CMDreamer (Sep 29, 2022)

Just ask yourselves which country is the one that benefits the most from all this situation and you will find the perpetrator...

I'm sure you don't need any hint, you're very smart people.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

stanna said:


> The video is a interview with Biden saying he is going to do this, but if course it was someone else


Nowhere in the video does he say that the US is going to sabotage or attack the pipeline.  Just more FUD from Putin-loving conservatives.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

ut2k4master said:


> there is no gas coming through those pipes anyway


And it can't start back up now either. So Germany and the rest of Europe can't lighten the sanctions against Russia.

Before this happened there were already news reports where different countries were limiting manufacturing to three or fewer days a week to save on energy and gas. The cuts will likely be deeper now.

Democrats seem to hate pipelines for some reason. The Democratic Governor of Michigan was attempting to shut down a pipeline between their north and south peninsulas. This would have devastated their northern peninsula as it was something like 90-95% of gas went through it, and it also would have affected the state of Wisconsin.

The solution? Oh just truck over the fuel. Because a bunch of semis continuously running yet still failing to meet demand is so much better than using a pipeline.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 29, 2022)

The Putler did it.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> And it can't start back up now either. So Germany and the rest of Europe can't lighten the sanctions against Russia.


Lol, the sanctions were never tied to oil/gas transactions.  Both Europe and the US agreed long ago to remove them entirely if Russia were to end their senseless invasion of Ukraine.  Putin seems hellbent on continuing to kneecap his own country, though, despite the fact that everybody else knows he has already lost.


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Lol, the sanctions were never tied to oil/gas transactions.  Both Europe and the US agreed long ago to remove them entirely if Russia were to end their senseless invasion of Ukraine.  Putin seems hellbent on continuing to kneecap his own country, though, despite the fact that everybody else knows he has already lost.


They weren't outright stopped, but there were attempts to drastically cut down on the purchases.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpal...n-oil-and-gas-didnt-work-and-now-we-know-why/

Europa's reliance on Russian gas and oil were one of the major things keeping the sanctions from having their full effect. Putin turn off the valve on his end to put pressure on Europe, claiming their was necessary maintenance due to leaks. Someone decided to double down for him.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Sep 29, 2022)

The Russians did it


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Since this is now the de facto thread for Russia news:

The number of Russians fleeing the country to evade Putin's draft is likely bigger than the original invasion force, UK intel says


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

lmao imagine still being a gas slave and not being a NUCLEAR CHAD


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## SScorpio (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Since this is now the de facto thread for Russia news:
> 
> The number of Russians fleeing the country to evade Putin's draft is likely bigger than the original invasion force, UK intel says


No, so far it's been related to the Russian pipeline and surrounding topics like the sanctions.

Let's try to stay some what on topic for once.


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## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> No, so far it's been related to the Russian pipeline and surrounding topics like the sanctions.
> 
> Let's try to stay some what on topic for once.


Tangentially related, since the sooner the conflict ends, the sooner the sanctions end.  Seems like one of the only ways that happens is if Russia runs out of warm bodies to send to Ukraine.


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 29, 2022)

Sabotage?


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

It's so frustrating that I've been beating the fucking nuclear drum for years and these animals still fall for the gas meme, not realizing shit like this will continue to happen until the change happens.


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> It's so frustrating that I've been beating the fucking nuclear drum for years and these animals still fall for the gas meme, not realizing shit like this will continue to happen until the change happens.


Nuclear energy is a very good idea regarding production of energy with a very low impact on the environment. It can also help to avoid dependency on other countries for energy.

But if the topic is about potential damage if sabotage or a direct attack is achieved, then nuclear power plants are a higher risk. Zaporizhzhia has been mentioned quite a bit lately.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> Nuclear energy is a very good idea regarding production of energy with a very low impact on the environment. It can also help to avoid dependency on other countries for energy.
> 
> But if the topic is about potential damage if sabotage or a direct attack is achieved, then nuclear power plants are a higher risk. Zaporizhzhia has been mentioned quite a bit lately.


While true, it's better to have a centralized target than something like a big ass pipeline that you can sabotage. The threat of an international incident from hitting nuclear power plants imo is more discouraging of hapless bombings of civilian areas than pipes getting hit by crossfire or intentional crippling blows.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if it was all an accident and human error. It seems like everyone is pushing for it to be more than that do they can use it as justification to go to war


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if it was all an accident and human error. It seems like everyone is pushing for it to be more than that do they can use it as justification to go to war


To be honest I don't see Russia or Germany gaining anything from this, so in any case I don't really think this would be an intentional act committed by any of those two countries. In the other hand I can see incompetence coming from any of those two parties, and from others too.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> To be honest I don't see Russia or Germany gaining anything from this, so in any case I don't really think this would be an intentional act committed by any of those two countries. In the other hand I can see incompetence coming from any of those two parties, and from others too.


Yeah, the thing this war has shown is that so many sides in it are beyond fucking dumb, and I think that's the real tragedy in this. Millions of lives can easily and irreparably snuffed out for good purely because of the egos and moronic tendencies of tyrant leaders.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> To be honest I don't see Russia or Germany gaining anything from this, so in any case I don't really think this would be an intentional act committed by any of those two countries. In the other hand I can see incompetence coming from any of those two parties, and from others too.


I don’t either but seems like everyone involved does have some vested interest in blaming someone else. Maybe it’s not the intention to go to war but there’s definitely an intention to avoid the possibility that it was human error or some non-malicious incident


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I don’t either but seems like everyone involved does have some vested interest in blaming someone else. Maybe it’s not the intention to go to war but there’s definitely an intention to avoid the possibility that it was human error or some non-malicious incident


With an incident like this no one is going to take responsibility for it anyways, even if forced to. This whole situation just pisses me off.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> With an incident like this no one is going to take responsibility for it anyways, even if forced to. This whole situation just pisses me off.


It’s tragic really. This will just be used for political gains and that will hide the truth if it’s ever found.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 29, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> It’s tragic really. This will just be used for political gains and that will hide the truth if it’s ever found.


God I hope someone shoots Putin in the street for causing this.


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## lokomelo (Sep 29, 2022)

This is a major roadblock for Russia to bargain back commercial deals with Europe, that is the worst case scenario for USA. Yet... for some reason... people already know that USA has nothing to do with it. Makes sense... USA would never ever do those kind of things, right?

Now Europe is lucky because the USA is so generous that can supply all nations. They will totally not get billions from it, right?


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## Taleweaver (Sep 30, 2022)

Pff... I'm not going to make myself popular, but so be it. 

I think it's the usa's doing. While they pretend to be all for ukraine, they profit hardly less by delivering weapons to Russia. As such, they mostly want a prolonged conflict rather than a resolved one. 
Russia is an easy scapegoat with Putin's cloak and dagger techniques. The thing is... He doesn't use these things without reason. The pipe was a strong trump card that he's now lost. Not exactly worth it compared to being able to play the victim(which... Wouldn't work regardless).
Ukraine and Germany i honestly think have their focus elsewhere. 

Oh, but there's more... I'm glad they did it. No, i won't be liking it (I've spent 2019's winter largely without heating in Belgium due to home renovation... And that was before our little one was born). But damnit... The EU should be involved in this war. Not this 'we' re supporting ukraine as long as it doesn't cost us' bullshit... Actually involved. And I'd rather be good for some months(I've lived through it) than heating on Russian gas. 



The Catboy said:


> I don’t either but seems like everyone involved does have some vested interest in blaming someone else. Maybe it’s not the intention to go to war but there’s definitely an intention to avoid the possibility that it was human error or some non-malicious incident


You don't have to have a vested interest to not wanting to be caught in the act. It's an act of war no matter who did it and for whatever reason.


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## The Catboy (Sep 30, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> You don't have to have a vested interest to not wanting to be caught in the act. It's an act of war no matter who did it and for whatever reason.


That’s true as well. I kind of more hope that it was an accident but know that it doesn’t matter


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## mrdude (Sep 30, 2022)

Every action has a reaction, and the best reactions are to do something so extreme that your enemy will think twice before messing with you again. You only need to get stung by a few wasps when messing about near it's hive to learn to not mess about with them.

Personally I am expecting some trans Atlantic internet cables to be cut now or worse in retaliation. I can't imagine any self repecting country (Russia in this case), just letting this go by without any consequences.


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## Xzi (Sep 30, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I can't imagine any self repecting country (Russia in this case), just letting this go by without any consequences.


And I can't imagine they're in a position to do anything about it.  They're losing badly in a fight with a much smaller country/military, drawing NATO into the conflict would be game over for sure.  All Russia has left to fall back on is rhetorical posturing and empty threats.


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## mrdude (Sep 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And I can't imagine they're in a position to do anything about it.  They're losing badly in a fight with a much smaller country/military, drawing NATO into the conflict would be game over for sure.  All Russia has left to fall back on is rhetorical posturing and empty threats.


Don't believe everything you read in western main stream media, there's a propoganda war going on just now as well and you are only hearing a one sided slanted viewpoint. If you were to read the media from the other side you would have a different opinion. My veiw is to get your info from both sides and just sum up the facts using your own brain instead of listening to the echos of someone with a narrative to push.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 30, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if it was all an accident and human error.


Both pipelines blown up a human error?

If could be proven that it was the US, Germany would have to leave NATO and demand American withdrawal from Germany. But even in that case, Germany would cave in.


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## Xzi (Sep 30, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Don't believe everything you read in western main stream media, there's a propoganda war going on just now as well and you are only hearing a one sided slanted viewpoint. If you were to read the media from the other side you would have a different opinion. My veiw is to get your info from both sides and just sum up the facts using your own brain instead of listening to the echos of someone with a narrative to push.


Would I really have a different viewpoint from inside of Russia though?  Your average Russian recognized that the ship was sinking the moment Putin had to call for a draft.  That's why almost 60 military recruitment offices have been torched since then, and flights out of the country have been booked solid.

"Western main stream media" has both regular status updates from Zelensky/Ukraine, and the satellite imagery to back them up. It doesn't get any more definitive than that.


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## mrdude (Sep 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Would I really have a different viewpoint from inside of Russia though?  Your average Russian recognized that the ship was sinking the moment Putin had to call for a draft.  That's why almost 60 military recruitment offices have been torched since then, and flights out of the country have been booked solid.
> 
> "Western main stream media" has both regular status updates from Zelensky/Ukraine, and the satellite imagery to back them up. It doesn't get any more definitive than that.


As I said, if you only get your news from one side of the fence, I expect you will never see the full picture of what's really going on around you.

Ask yourself who is benefitting from this war, is it the Arms companies selling weapons and munitions (paid for by the tax  payer) - who has shares in those companies and is making a lot of money (lots of politicians and some rich people)? who does it benefit when USA is selling gas to Europe? There's lots of things going on behind the scenes that you and me are unaware about, but if you only ever listen to the narrative instead of trying to figure out what's really happening you'll always be in the dark.

Why is there more war footage of ww2 than what's going on in Ukraine, where's all the cameras and footage? We had loads during Bosnia/Kosovo/Gulf War, Gulf War 2, Afghanistan etc....how come Zelesnky is wandering about meeting celebrities and celebs are flying in and out of Ukraine all the time? There's lots of things that don't make any sense, so forgive me if I am a sceptical person and think there's something fishy going on here and the western MSN have been full of crap for a few years now.


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## mrgone (Sep 30, 2022)

just read that bad maintenance and non-flowing contents support of a buildup of methan hydrate ice blockage
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

source http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9dc9d72a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate#Hydrates_in_natural_gas_processing

example pictures


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## Xzi (Sep 30, 2022)

mrdude said:


> As I said, if you only get your news from one side of the fence, I expect you will never see the full picture of what's really going on around you.


It's not "one side" though, it's the entire rest of the world saying one thing, while Russia's propaganda machine says another.  Sure, maybe if it was only US media making claims about who's winning and by how much, it'd be easier to sell the idea that this is all some CIA/FBI conspiracy.  That's simply not the case though, any number of independent agencies have verified what's happening on the ground there.



mrdude said:


> Ask yourself who is benefitting from this war, is it the Arms companies selling weapons and munitions (paid for by the tax payer) - who has shares in those companies and is making a lot of money (lots of politicians and some rich people)?


Of course weapons manufacturers are making money off this, but that's irrelevant to the larger point that this was and still remains an _imperialist invasion_ of Ukraine.  Putin chose to step in this pile of dogshit, and every day he refuses to withdraw he's just further making his entire country roll in it.  Even more ridiculous is that, in the beginning, he truly believed _he_ was going to be the beneficiary of all of this.



mrdude said:


> who does it benefit when USA is selling gas to Europe?


Gas companies, obviously.  Again, doesn't change the fact that Russia had no reason to paint a bright red target on their pipelines in the first place.  Without the invasion there would be no motivation for anybody to sabotage them.



mrdude said:


> Why is there more war footage of ww2 than what's going on in Ukraine, where's all the cameras and footage?


It's pretty damn easy to find if you go looking for it on the internet.  It was all over the national news in the early weeks of the invasion, though they've since turned their attention elsewhere.



mrdude said:


> how come Zelesnky is wandering about meeting celebrities and celebs are flying in and out of Ukraine all the time?


This further speaks to the fact that pretty much the entire Western half of Ukraine is now secure, in no small part thanks to all the military hardware the US has provided.  Zelensky also isn't a pussy, unlike Vlad who has been hiding out in a bunker since the very beginning.


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## mrdude (Sep 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's not "one side" though, it's the entire rest of the world saying one thing, while Russia's propaganda machine says another.  Sure, maybe if it was only US media making claims about who's winning and by how much, it'd be easier to sell the idea that this is all some CIA/FBI conspiracy.  That's simply not the case though, any number of independent agencies have verified what's happening on the ground there.
> 
> 
> Of course weapons manufacturers are making money off this, but that's irrelevant to the larger point that this was and still remains an _imperialist invasion_ of Ukraine.  Putin chose to step in this pile of dogshit, and every day he refuses to withdraw he's just further making his entire country roll in it.  Even more ridiculous is that, in the beginning, he truly believed _he_ was going to be the beneficiary of all of this.
> ...


I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, you already have it set and are not interested in any other viewpoint. You can post as much crap as you want to try to justify that viewpoint, but your viewpoint is slanted to one side and you will never listen to the other side so it will always be that way. Therefore you will always be easy to manipulate.
There's other people in this world that will listen to the the viewpoint of both sides and then make an informed decision of their own, because that's what rational people do. Obvioulsy we can think for ourselves and don't take someone else at their word.
Just the other day Kamala Harris (USA VP) was saying USA were alies of North Korea, what a retard, I wonder how many believed her, she's as thick as pig shit. Still there's some out there that will have watched that and believed what she said.......


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## Xzi (Sep 30, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, you already have it set and are not interested in any other viewpoint.


In other words, you have no means to refute what I've said.  Not even the Kremlin denies that Russia invaded Ukraine, they've only ever cycled through a long list of excuses for why they "had" to do it.  Before the invasion, conspiracy-minded folk like yourself were adamant that US intelligence was wrong and Putin would never do such a thing.



mrdude said:


> There's other people in this world that will listen to the the viewpoint of both sides and then make an informed decision of their own, because that's what rational people do.


Yet you're clearly only taking one side of this into consideration, otherwise you'd be more willing to accept what every other nation is telling you.  To deny that Russia has fucked themselves in this scenario is to deny reality, there's no logic in attempting to spin the aggressor into the victim.  It's practically a meme at this point, but I'll say it anyway: facts don't care about your feelings.


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## mrdude (Sep 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> In other words, you have no means to refute what I've said


In your head that's what you think I've said, but it's not. It's pointless to refute anything to you because your mind is already made up things and no amount of posting will change that. You are set in your ways, you have been spoonfed info from biased sources and never questioned the narrative.
What do you actually know of Ukraine or it's politicians or politics that you haven't heard from the western MSM? If you were to actually do some reading outside of your comfort zone, you would find out that Zelenskyy is a dictator, and that his forces were killing Russian Ulrainians for a long time before this war started. I don't expect you will know any of this though because that's not what the media want you to know.


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## Xzi (Sep 30, 2022)

mrdude said:


> If you were to actually do some reading outside of your comfort zone


Translation: "if you were to read the same fascist apologia and conspiratorial horse shit from 8chan and alt-right social media that I do..."

The reason you aren't willing to post anything which might substantiate your claims is because you know it's on even shakier ground than the least trustworthy MSM outlets out there.  So you're right to assume that I'd call it bunk.  I'd say conservatives' fetish for war criminals like Putin is both disturbing and alarming, but this isn't 2014.  I'm not at all surprised by the depths y'all are willing to sink to any more, even when you decide to keep digging after hitting the ocean floor.


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## mrdude (Sep 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Translation: "if you were to read the same fascist apologia and conspiratorial horse shit from 8chan and alt-right social media that I do..."


I'm sure your brain thinks that's what's going on......meanwhile back in reality.....!


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## City (Oct 1, 2022)

This helps no one. I hate what’s Russia doing with all my guts, but I don’t think they did it. Maybe vandalism?


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 1, 2022)

What if neither side did it officially and it was just some shithead accelerationists behind this?


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 2, 2022)

I have zero trust in any Western leaders so that honestly means nothing to me. They lie, twist the truth, and divide us.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> alt-right


Where are they?

I thought "alt-right" died around 2017/18 since it's such a joke even to the right.


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## mrdude (Oct 2, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> I have zero trust in any Western leaders so that honestly means nothing to me. They lie, twist the truth, and divide us.


Lets face it, weapons of mass destruction which started the gulf war was a lie. Invasion of Afganistan because a terrorists was supposedly in the country, There's countless lies we have been told over the years by western politicians, too many to mention here. I have zero trust in them as they have proved themselelves time and time again to be liars. Look at Biden, every time he opens his mouth a lie comes out of it, then you have Justin Trudeau - nothing but a wannabe commie dictator, same as Jacinda Ardern. Then you have the non elected EU bureaucrats, constantantly interfering in other countries affairs.

Let's face it, if one African country was to invade another one - USA wouldn't be bothered, they themselves (USA) have invaded plenty countries, messed about with other counties political stuctures and now potentialy they have carried out a terrorist attack on another countries infrastructure. Basically they are in no position to lecture others.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 2, 2022)

The West "liberated" Libya from a "dictator" and look what they've done to that country.

I'm not Libyan and I miss him.



Those who don't comply with them are seen as enemies, "far-right" and "undemocratic."



"We have tools."

Nothing suspicious about that.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 2, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> (about alt right social media)
> 
> Where are they?
> 
> I thought "alt-right" died around 2017/18 since it's such a joke even to the right.


They're busy banning books from a library and going nuts over someone playing an old flute.

So... Perhaps not dead, but pretty weird in their priorities. And with those subjects, one can't deny its a joke indeed.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 2, 2022)

City said:


> This helps no one. I hate what’s Russia doing with all my guts, but I don’t think they did it. Maybe vandalism?


I'm not sure you know the details, but we're talking three different pipes here... At the bottom of the sea. Not exactly a place where local hoodlums hang around.


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## City (Oct 2, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> I'm not sure you know the details, but we're talking three different pipes here... At the bottom of the sea. Not exactly a place where local hoodlums hang around.


…wow, ok. Fuck Russia


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## Xzi (Oct 2, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> They're busy banning books from a library and going nuts over someone playing an old flute.
> 
> So... Perhaps not dead, but pretty weird in their priorities. And with those subjects, one can't deny its a joke indeed.


In the US at least, it doesn't really matter what you call them because the far right, alt-right, and conservatism have all been rolled into one big fat ugly ball.  They worship every authoritarian dictator/oligarch on the face of the planet, Trump and Putin in particular.  Yes they are a fucking joke, but they also own guns and have demonstrated that they are capable of violent outbursts.  This form of brain worms has even spread to Canada from what I've been told, and we know it's in Brazil too given all the Bolsonaro bootlickers.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> In the US at least, it doesn't really matter what you call them because the far right, alt-right, and conservatism have all been rolled into one big fat ugly ball.  They worship every authoritarian dictator/oligarch on the face of the planet, Trump and Putin in particular.  Yes they are a fucking joke, but they also own guns and have demonstrated that they are capable of violent outbursts.  This form of brain worms has even spread to Canada from what I've been told, and we know it's in Brazil too given all the Bolsonaro bootlickers.


Pretty much this. The alt-right doesn't just disappear or become useless as a term just because the people who coined it, like Richard Spencer, have become irrelevant due to deplatforming working. There's still individuals today who carry the same white nationalist, and outwardly hostile beliefs such as terrorist groups like the Proud Boys and Patriot Front, etc.


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## caki883 (Oct 2, 2022)

It was always USA´s plan to sell gas to Europe. Filthy and expensive gas.
Funny thing is where the damage occurred only USA USS Kearsarge 
was near 
USA GO HOME


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## caki883 (Oct 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Nowhere in the video does he say that the US is going to sabotage or attack the pipeline.  Just more FUD from Putin-loving conservatives.


no off course not and that Poland Minister "didn´t" thank USA for destroying it on twitter


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## caki883 (Oct 2, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> A little more information for people on why this is a big deal.
> 
> The Nord Stream are a pair of pipelines that carry natural gas from Russia to Germany. Do to sanctions due to Ukraine, they haven't been delivering gas. And Russia itself shutdown delivery claiming repairs for leaks.
> 
> ...


4x is long gone . From 100€ it´s jumped to 500-600. Ppl are moving from big cities to smaller cities and willages because they can´t pay the costs anymore. 
EU leader should be Orban Viktor and not that


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## mrdude (Oct 2, 2022)

I just finished watching The Save America rally at Michigan:



One things for sure, Trump is very inspiring, he speaks the truth and see's the way things are just now.

Wake up America, it's time to get rid of these scummy democrats for good, get out an vote next month and save your country. You've had the corrupt Biden admin in charge for less than two years, and his party has brought your country to it's knees and the world is looking at you and has lost the respect it once had. Not only that, we are nearly in WW3, it's time to take back control. Vote Republican and save yourselves and your families from more misery! Make America Great Again!


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 2, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I just finished watching The Save America rally at Michigan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



what does this have to do with the thread


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## caki883 (Oct 2, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> what does this have to do with the thread


Well that biden is not a president. He is searching for dead ppl to great them and handshakes a wall. He is a zombi


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## mrdude (Oct 2, 2022)

caki883 said:


> Well that biden is not a president. He is searching for dead ppl to great them and handshakes a wall. He is a zombi


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> In the US at least, it doesn't really matter what you call them because the far right, alt-right, and conservatism have all been rolled into one big fat ugly ball.  They worship every authoritarian dictator/oligarch on the face of the planet, Trump and Putin in particular.  Yes they are a fucking joke, but they also own guns and have demonstrated that they are capable of violent outbursts.  This form of brain worms has even spread to Canada from what I've been told, and we know it's in Brazil too given all the Bolsonaro bootlickers.


This explains your double standards and inability to be objective.
While I say we don´t know who did it, you go straight to Putin regarding possible suspects.

Find videos or quotes of Putin (=Biden) and another important player (=Nuland) saying they are going to "end Navalny one way or another" and a foreign diplomat thanking Putin. ... Imagine if I had suspected Germany of poisoning Navalny. That´s what you are doing now.

I really wonder what your reaction would be if it came out that it was really the US. Still denial or approval probably. While I would condem Putin or the Kreml for poisoning Navalny. Of course, we will probably not find out in either case.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> While I say we don´t know who did it


Word for word what my position is.  We have no clue who's responsible, but while you and the other conservatives here want to automatically rule out Putin as a possible suspect, I'm simply not that naive.  Nor can you convince me that I should be. 

We also can't rule out the theory that nobody directly sabotaged the pipeline, but instead that lack of proper/regular maintenance is responsible for its failure.  Based on the poor state of Russia's military equipment, that's hardly a stretch, now is it.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

Now, what we DO know for sure is that Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked, has been specifically targeting and torturing civilians as young as four years old there, and has caused widespread suffering in his own country as well.  He CHOSE to do these things and therefore he CHOSE to put a big fat target on himself and all of Russia's assets, their pipelines included.  I would've sabotaged them myself given the opportunity, because not only should that motherfucker lose all opportunity to profit while committing mass war crimes, he should be six feet under a grave filled with fecal matter.

I guarantee there are plenty of Americans, Germans, Ukrainians, and Russians who feel the exact same way.  And that's the biggest reason why it'll be nearly impossible to identify who exactly the culprit was in this.  Governments have their own motivations, but so do much smaller groups and individuals.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Word for word what my position is.  We have no clue who's responsible, but while you and the other conservatives here want to automatically rule out Putin as a possible suspect, I'm simply not that naive.  Nor can you convince me that I should be.
> 
> We also can't rule out the theory that nobody directly sabotaged the pipeline, but instead that lack of proper/regular maintenance is responsible for its failure.  Based on the poor state of Russia's military equipment, that's hardly a stretch, now is it.


I wouldn't rule out Putin at all, but I wouldn't rule out foul play by the USA either.
One of those may be an ally, but neither is a real friend of Europe.
Both have their interests. They are not and have never been the interests of Europe, even though they might align now and then.
The pipeline was a costly endeavor, damned be the treacherous party that damaged it.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> The pipeline was a costly endeavor, damned be the treacherous party that damaged it.


No country should be stupid enough to get into bed with an adversary, let alone expect such a relationship to last for the long term.  And I'm very much including the US-Saudi Arabia connection in that.  Every nation should strive for energy independence, or at the very least, every reliable coalition of nations.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No country should be stupid enough to get into bed with an adversary, let alone expect such a relationship to last for the long term.  And I'm very much including the US-Saudi Arabia connection in that.  Every nation should strive for energy independence, or at the very least, every reliable coalition of nations.


In this I agree.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Word for word what my position is.


Except that you want straight to Putin, the least likely culprit.
Think about it: Destroying the Russian pipeline reduces Russian options. If Russia wanted to stop gas transport, they would simply turn off the pipe.
Your argument that this is about eliciting sympathy is laughable. Who has changed his or her mind due to this? I know nobody. Do you?



Xzi said:


> We have no clue who's responsible, but while you and the other conservatives here want to automatically rule out Putin as a possible suspect, I'm simply not that naive.  Nor can you convince me that I should be.
> 
> We also can't rule out the theory that nobody directly sabotaged the pipeline, but instead that lack of proper/regular maintenance is responsible for its failure.  Based on the poor state of Russia's military equipment, that's hardly a stretch, now is it.


And we can´t rule out Germans poisoned Navalny in order to blame Russia. That´s how insane you sound to a rational person.
In fact, we can´t rule out either thing, but it tells us a lot about you that you went straight to Putin. Did Putin ruin your coffee today as well?


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I would've sabotaged them myself given the opportunity, because not only should that motherfucker lose all opportunity to profit while committing mass war crimes, he should be six feet under a grave filled with fecal matter.


So you would have let half the people in Europe freeze this winter, and then bury someone in fecal matter? That say's a lot about you as a person, have you ever though about seeing a psychiatrist? You're a strange character - it seems a lot of lefties have mental issues just like you though so at least you have that in common with them. 

When Putin finds out the pipeline was sabotaged by the USA and decides to retaliate and a few people get novachocked or nuked or your energy infrastructure takes a hit, or there's some other retaliation event, you'll be be first to start whinging that there were consequences for an action, and nobody outside of the USA (or with a functional brain) will be surprised.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Except that you want straight to Putin, the least likely culprit.


I offered up a theory, and you're angry because it contradicts the prevailing conservative theory in the thread.  Simple as.  When it comes to false flag attacks, Putin has _never_ been the least likely culprit, claiming as much is an attempt to gaslight us all.



mrdude said:


> So you would have let half the people in Europe freeze this winter, and then bury someone in fecal matter?


It's not life or death for Europeans, they have strong social safety nets unlike the US.  The sooner Putin is six feet under, the sooner a mutually beneficial business relationship with Russia can be re-established.



mrdude said:


> When Putin finds out the pipeline was sabotaged by the USA and decides to retaliate and a few people get novachocked or nuked or your energy infrastructure takes a hit, or there's some other retaliation event, you'll be be first to start whinging that there were consequences for an action, and nobody outside of the USA (or with a functional brain) will be surprised.


Putin is already blaming the US with no proof, just as he blamed the West for his senseless, unprovoked invasion into Ukraine.  He's also been making empty nuclear threats for the last several months even before the pipeline went kaput, which makes him look weaker, not stronger.  Any such escalation would bring US/NATO forces into the conflict, and then the only thing he could possibly hope for would be a swift merciful death instead of being shipped off to Guantanamo.  I think he's an evil piece of shit, but I don't think he's that dumb.

The "strongman" image is long gone.  The only people that still have to live in fear of Putler are the Russians themselves, and I do pity them.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I offered up a theory, and you're angry because it contradicts the prevailing conservative theory in the thread.  Simple as.  When it comes to false flag attacks, Putin has _never_ been the least likely culprit, claiming as much is an attempt to gaslight us all.


I´m not angry at all. I have exposed your double standard. Your argument is flawed. You have not replied: Do you know anyone who has changed his mind regarding the conflict due to the sabotage? "Anti-Russians" like you still hate Russia and "pro-Russians" still like Russia.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I have exposed your double standard.


You say we don't know who did it, but then err on the side of the US being the culprit.  I say we don't know who did it, but err on the side of a Putin false flag attack being the culprit.  If I have a double-standard, you have the exact same type of double-standard.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You have not replied: Do you know anyone who has changed his mind regarding the conflict due to the sabotage?


Not really, as those hardened against Russian propaganda remain hardened against it, and those susceptible to it still remain susceptible to it.  Desperate times call for desperate measures, however, and there has been a coordinated online disinformation campaign from Russian troll farms ongoing since the moment the pipeline failed/was sabotaged.  The Kremlin is the boy who cried wolf, and if they're telling us one thing, it's the opposite that's usually true.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> "Anti-Russians" like you still hate Russia and "pro-Russians" still like Russia.


It's not "pro-Russia" to support a mass murdering dictator who is forcing a draft on his own people to continue an unnecessary and morally reprehensible conflict.  The positions you hold are very much to the detriment of the common man in Russia.  Without Putin there would be no invasion, no sanctions, no draft, and no motivation for _anyone_ to target Russia's pipelines.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You say we don't know who did it, but then err on the side of the US being the culprit.  I say we don't know who did it, but err on the side of a Putin false flag attack being the culprit.  If I have a double-standard, you have the exact same type of double-standard.


No I don´t. I already explained it by comparing it to Navalny.
And I´m not even saying it was the US.
You immediately accused Putin in the Navalny case. Yet, there is no video of Putin and other high-ranking officials announcing to "end him". Or foreign diplomats thanking Putin for poisoning Navalny.
Thinking of the Russian government in the Navalny case is similar to thinking of the US administration in this case.
I don´t have a double standard, sorry. I simply exposed yours.


Xzi said:


> Not really, as those hardened against Russian propaganda remain hardened against it, and those susceptible to it still remain susceptible to it.


Thank you for admitting it. Then what is your next argument? Or do you accuse Putin without arguments because he also ruined your coffee today?


Xzi said:


> The positions you hold are very much to the detriment of the common man in Russia.  Without Putin there would be no invasion, no sanctions, no draft, and no motivation for _anyone_ to target Russia's pipelines.


You seem to not know my position. Without NATO membership (or EU membership which indirectly includes NATO membership, see association agreement about a common security apparatus), there would be no war.
The position you hold is to the detriment of all Ukrainians. Their civilians (and also drafted soldiers) die, while Russia "only" loses men.

After the war is over, both countries will have fewer soldiers and a shattered economy. But only Ukraine will have devasted cities and a loss of territory.
Was it worth it? They will have gained nothing. US soldiers would still not be accepted in Kiev, unless you want WW3. The US knows this.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And I´m not even saying it was the US.


Bull fucking shit.  You were already arguing on behalf of Putin long before the pipeline incident, and you've done nothing but imply the US was responsible throughout the whole thread.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You immediately accused Putin in the Navalny case. Yet, there is no video of Putin and other high-ranking officials announcing to "end him". Or foreign diplomats thanking Putin for poisoning Navalny.


The hell are you smoking, dude?  Russian prison on its own is a death sentence if you don't get out quickly, and Putin put Navalny there on bogus charges.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Then what is your next argument?


That Putin was desperate enough to believe such a false flag operation would win him some more allies, or at least keep some of his current ones from abandoning him.  Miscalculations would be far from unprecedented for him.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Without NATO membership (or EU membership which indirectly includes NATO membership, see association agreement about a common security apparatus), there would be no war.


Which is a facade that not even Putin himself has bothered to maintain over these last few months.  You're literally providing additional propaganda for him unprompted.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Was it worth it?


Is defending their own homeland against the invasion of a tyrant "worth it?"  Is this a serious question?  The Russian invasion loses more ground by the day, and eventually it will be forced out.  Putin's bargain bin military has been exposed for all the world to mock, and unless they voluntarily withdraw, the Russian economy will never be the same again.


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's not life or death for Europeans, they have strong social safety nets unlike the US.  The sooner Putin is six feet under, the sooner a mutually beneficial business relationship with Russia can be re-established.


Actually it is for some people, and now they will be cold and poorer due to the high gas prices that the USA are now trying to sell Europe (when your own prices are the highest they have ever been), but you seem to think it's justifiable for some country to destory another countries infrastructure, so you can step in and profit from it. This is pretty much global terrorism in many people's eye's.

USA is a bully, it always has been and when it's not picking on some country it's selling some other country weapons that will use them on others. The thing is, that the USA has invaded a few countries, but then gets pissed when another country does it - double standards and hypocrisy  spring to mind.

What we don't see from the USA is them getting all uppety when two African countries are invading each other, or when China is enslaving vast amounts of people etc. USA is not the world peace force and it shouldn't be getting involved in starting WW3, which is where we are all going to end up soon if USA doesn't stop poking its nose into other countries politics.

If you knew anything about history, you would know that during the Regan era the Berlin wall came down and that spelled the end of the Soviet Union. They (Soviets) at the time were told that NATO would not encroach on it's borders, but what we have seen is NATO expanding each decade to the point that they now are on Russia's border, and Russia has said enough is enough, they have been warning against this for many years. You also know the sum of zero about Ukraine, it's history or it's politics or politicians, culture or people and probably couldn't even point to it on a map 6 months ago, yet you feel you can spout off your opinions about it to others, and then start citing some shady western propoganda about things you know nothing about.....go figure that out!


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Actually it is for some people, and now they will be cold and poorer due to the high gas prices that the USA are now trying to sell Europe (when your own prices are the highest they have ever been), but you seem to think it's justifiable for some country to destory another countries infrastructure, so you can step in and profit from it.


Almost like capitalism is shit, and double shit for anyone born poor into such a system.  Again though, I have confidence that most European nations will provide assistance for those struggling to pay for heating throughout the winter.  The US will have a lot more homeless freeze to death during the same period, and you won't care enough to mention it even in passing.



mrdude said:


> The thing is, that the USA has invaded a few countries, but then gets pissed when another country does it - double standards and hypocrisy spring to mind.


Is it really a double standard when the same morally reprehensible group of Americans which supported the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq are now also supporting the invasion of Ukraine?  Y'all love your strongmen, no matter their nation, and if not for the 2008 economic collapse, conservatives would still be worshiping GWB to this day.


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Almost like capitalism is shit, and double shit for anyone born poor into such a system.  Again though, I have confidence that most European nations will provide assistance for those struggling to pay for heating throughout the winter.  The US will have a lot more homeless freeze to death during the same period, and you won't care enough to mention it even in passing.


If some country had willfully blown up your energy infrastructure and people were freezing to death (you have no idea how cold it gets in many parts of Europe), I would be complaining about it, so don't try and tar me with the same mould that you come from.

You are an idiot and you can't see your own hypocrisy or double standards. You really do need to have a long period of silence and self reflection and think about how others see you, it's not in a good light but you are too blinded by your own self importance to see this. You have mental issues, maybe you've not been diagnosed by a doctor yet, but trust me when I say  to you that you need to seek out help.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> If some country had willfully blown up your energy infrastructure and people were freezing to death (you have no idea how cold it gets in many parts of Europe), I would be complaining about it, so don't try and tar me with the same mould that you come from.


Firstly, I live in Colorado where it gets down to at least -30 F at points during the winter.  Secondly, continuing to assume you know the identity of the perpetrator for certain, and further that you know for certain it was any nation's government, makes you look like a total moron.



mrdude said:


> You are an idiot and you can't see your own hypocrisy or double standards.


When I was younger my views trended more liberal, now that I'm older they trend more leftist.  Across that entire span of time I've been anti-imperialism, and been a part of multiple anti-imperialism protests.  Neither of us is hypocritical, I simply stand in diametric opposition to your abhorrent beliefs and lack of morals/ethics.  If you love the way Putin lords over Russia so much, feel free to move there, because as long as true American values hold firm, this nation will never accept an authoritarian dictator as legitimate.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Is it really a double standard when the same morally reprehensible group of Americans which supported the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq are now also supporting the invasion of Ukraine?  Y'all love your strongmen, no matter their nation, and if not for the 2008 economic collapse, conservatives would still be worshiping GWB to this day.


Who are you talking to? I don´t support the invasion into Ukraine. But I blame the West as well. It provoked this reaction in my view (and millions if not billions around the world).

I don´t support the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq. You might be thinking of boomer "America f*ck yeah" kind of guys. I doubt you will find many online.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Who are you talking to? I don´t support the invasion into Ukraine. But I blame the West as well. It provoked this reaction in my view (and millions if not billions around the world).


Obviously I was talking to the person I was replying to, an American conservative.  Attempting to justify the invasion, however, is hardly any better than voicing full-throated support for it.  It was entirely unprovoked and unnecessary, and since it began Putin's forces have barely even engaged with the Ukrainian military but instead targeted civilians.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I don´t support the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq. You might be thinking of boomer "America f*ck yeah" kind of guys. I doubt you will find many online.


Every Trump supporter who was old enough to understand politics when 9/11 happened supported our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Only in retrospect did they disavow GWB, and that was more for the optics than anything else.  Trump still represents the worst instincts and pro-imperialist rhetoric of the old GOP.


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> because as long as true American values hold firm, this nation will never accept an authoritarian dictator as legitimate.


This bit made me laugh, haha, and you have that corrupt retard Biden as a president, and that mongeloid Harris as your VP who only last week was in South Korea, and then claimed that the PRK were your allies......

From an outsiders perspective:

Your country has been overthrown by globalists and your government officials are nothing but puppets that are being told what laws to make and pass to protect the rich people that are really running the show and you are too blind to see this. A vast amount of people in USA have lost their way, they think men can get pregnant and you can change your biology, they believe in nothing. You have criminals walking the steets killing and stealing at will and the police are being defunded and demoralised and the criminals not being prosecuted. Your FBI has been turned into the Biden Admins own SS brigade. Law is onesided now and protects the rich. Even your voter system is corrupted and you look like a bananna republic now to many outsideof the USA. You have black people being openly racist against white people and this is being tolerated and pushed by your MSM and politicians, your school system pushes critical race theory.

If you think you're living in a country with American values - well I don't think much about your values.
If you think you don't live in a dictatorship - you are mistaken.

If you think the people of the world are looking on at the USA as some sort of thing to aspire to be like, you are sadly vey much mistaken. The world is laughing at you and how you have become a victim of your own success. You had the chance to make the world a better place but squandered it for greed and power. You bully the rest of the world with Sanctions or Invasions or strike them with missliles when they don't do what you want and you wonder why some call you the "Great Satan". You even shit on your own Allies, you didn't even tell them you were abandoning Afghanistan and then your president is poking his nose into the UK and Brexit matters and trying to blackmail them....with friends like these, do we need them????

Since Biden took office, everyone is poorer, the world is on the brink of WW3, your country has turned into a joke, and you think the dems are doing a good job? Stroll on november when the voting public will get a chance to display their disatisfaction with the Biden admin and the commie policies they have implemented. Maybe the people can save America before it's too late.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Unhinged and off-topic rant from a Trump supporting lunatic


Par for the course.  Go touch some grass.


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## smf (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You immediately accused Putin in the Navalny case. Yet, there is no video of Putin and other high-ranking officials announcing to "end him". Or foreign diplomats thanking Putin for poisoning Navalny.


All that shows, is that Putin is in the stronger position because he is aware of how things occurred and all the things that are going to occur. Not because he is morally superior.

I don't think Putin blew up the pipeline, he was too busy congratulating himself for killing so many ukrainians, stealing all that land with all the resources in the ground, the sham referendum & ordering blowing up the pipeline.



mrdude said:


> This bit made me laugh, haha, and you have that corrupt retard Biden as a president, and that mongeloid Harris as your VP who only last week was in South Korea,


This bit made me laugh too, but I'm sure for a different reason. The irony of you calling Biden retarded.



mrdude said:


> If you knew anything about history, you would know that during the Regan era the Berlin wall came down and that spelled the end of the Soviet Union. They (Soviets) at the time were told that NATO would not encroach on it's borders, but what we have seen is NATO expanding each decade to the point that they now are on Russia's border, and Russia has said enough is enough, they have been warning against this for many years. You also know the sum of zero about Ukraine, it's history or it's politics or politicians, culture or people and probably couldn't even point to it on a map 6 months ago, yet you feel you can spout off your opinions about it to others, and then start citing some shady western propoganda about things you know nothing about.....go figure that out!


That never happened and NATO expansion is only driven by Putin's actions, because countries get scared and want to join NATO. What should we do, let Putin destroy them?

That is like beating someone up for going to the Police, after you stole from them.... Well you were forced to beat them up, right? They went to the Police!


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

smf said:


> That is like beating someone up for going to the Police, after you stole from them.... Well you were forced to beat them up, right? They went to the Police!


So then e.g. Cuba or Panama should receive Russian rockets to defend against the US, right? Would make the world so mucher safer... right?
Funny how you see NATO as the police.

Syria is still being occupied by thieving US forces. Assad should get some long-range weapons from Russia to chase them out.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Attempting to justify the invasion, however, is hardly any better than voicing full-throated support for it.


It is much better. I do not support the killing of Charlie Hebdo, but I can explain to anyone why this "unprovoked" attack happened.



Xzi said:


> Every Trump supporter who was old enough to understand politics when 9/11 happened supported our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Only in retrospect did they disavow GWB, and that was more for the optics than anything else.  Trump still represents the worst instincts and pro-imperialist rhetoric of the old GOP.


Not every Trump supporter. But probably a lot of them. If they change their views when growing up, it is a sign of maturity. Something we can only hope for regarding you. Many Neocons and the establishment Democrats still view the Iraq war as justified.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I do not support the killing of Charlie Hebdo, but I can explain to anyone why this "unprovoked" attack happened.


No, you can only make excuses for why you believe it's okay that it happened.  Which does nothing but call your own morals and ethics into question.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Not every Trump supporter. But probably a lot of them.  If they change their views when growing up, it is a sign of maturity.


A significant portion of them are full-grown adults already, and set in their ways.  The Southern Strategy is not very appealing to the younger generations.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, you can only make excuses for why you believe it's okay that it happened.  Which does nothing but call your own morals and ethics into question.


Moral Nr. 1 is existence. The Ukraine war was preventable and is going to cost millions of additional starvation deaths, e.g. because the EU still does not allow Russian fertilizer exports to the 3rd world. Though the EU recently lifted the ban for itself. Same with grain exports which ended up in Europe for the most part.

About Charlie Hebdo: You can either  accept that Muslims hold their prophet more dear than their own parents or you can fight them till eternity. Most people understand this, which is why you, Xzi, do not dare publish a picture of him.

There, I just explained it without justifying it.


----------



## caki883 (Oct 3, 2022)

USA should be sent out from EUROPE and nothing else. Everywhere where USA comes there is a war.
Nobody else was near the damaged Pipeline except USS Kearsarge. USA is sabotaging EUROPE only because the GAS and power.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Oct 3, 2022)

Were living in a fucking South park episode......


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Were living in a fucking South park episode......


Yeah, the one where Muhammad was wearing bear costume.


----------



## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Moral Nr. 1 is existence. The Ukraine war was preventable and is going to cost millions of additional starvation deaths, e.g. because the EU still does not allow Russian fertilizer exports to the 3rd world.


Russia let lots of grain ships leave one of the ports in Ukraine a few months back for 3rd world countries and the EU kept 97% of the grain for themselves, the EU is very corrupt and is nothing more than a protectionist racket.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Moral Nr. 1 is existence.


And nobody was threatening Russia's existence.  "We feel threatened by the very existence of NATO" is not a valid excuse for dropping the first bombs on and firing the first shots at Ukraine.  If NATO had bombed targets inside of Russia before Russia went into Ukraine, then and only then would you maybe have a leg to stand on with this argument.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> About Charlie Hebdo: You can either accept that Muslims hold their prophet more dear than their own parents or you can fight them till eternity. Most people understand this, which is why you, Xzi, do not dare publish a picture of him.


"My god is more valid than your god" as an excuse for war is a tale as old as time, and it's just as dumb now as it was in the middle ages.  This same logic was used by Christian conservatives to attempt to justify the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, so perhaps you do align with them after all.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And nobody was threatening Russia's existence.


The war threatens my existence. My existence is most precious to me. If you want to die for Ukraine, go fight there. Leave me out of it. Thanks.


Xzi said:


> "My god is more valid than your god" as an excuse for war is a tale as old as time, and it's just as dumb now as it was in the middle ages.  This same logic was used by Christian conservatives to attempt to justify the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, so perhaps you do align with them after all.


Are you able to read? I AM ALWAYS WAS AGAINST THE INVASION OF IRAQ. I held my nose and voted for Schroeder because of it.


----------



## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And nobody was threatening Russia's existence.


Apart from an ever expanding NATO, which expanded all the way to Russia's doorstep - which Russia had been warning about for decades. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Apart from an ever expanding NATO, which expanded all the way to Russia's doorstep - which Russia had been warning about for decades. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this?


He thinks NATO is an defensive alliance and every country has the right to join any alliance they want. Except the Solomon islands near Australia which might welcome Chinese soldiers.
I think Russia needs to supply Mexico with long-range weapons to take back its territories. Crimea is forever Ukrainian. Then ... .


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The war threatens my existence.


No, it really doesn't.  For that matter, your government views Russia's miscalculations as being beneficial to them, as China relies more on an economic form of imperialism rather than a military form of it.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Are you able to read? I AM ALWAYS WAS AGAINST THE INVASION OF IRAQ. I held my nose and voted for Schroeder because of it.


Right, but here you are flirting with the idea that waging "holy war" is acceptable so long as the opposition's words or ideas fly in the face of your beliefs.  There is no justifying what happened with the extremism against Charlie Hebdo, just as there is no justifying unprovoked invasion and imperialism.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Apart from an ever expanding NATO, which expanded all the way to Russia's doorstep - which Russia had been warning about for decades. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this?


Actions cause reactions.  Putin had been threatening Ukraine with invasion for months prior to when they had even begun to _think_ about joining NATO. And the result of the invasion is that several more nations have now applied/been accepted for membership. Are you really so stupid that you didn't see that coming?


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Actions cause reactions.


Which is why Russia won't take it's pipeline being blown up laying down, I expect you'll see some retaliation sooner or later, so I don't expect you to whinge about it when it eventually happens.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Which is why Russia won't take it's pipeline being blown up laying down, I expect you'll see some retaliation sooner or later, so I don't expect you to whinge about it when it eventually happens.


Ooh, mysterious unnamed "retaliation."  What's Putin gonna do, launch a second draft that includes toddlers this time?  I'm really shaking in my boots here.  

You gotta be one of the only people left in the world still afraid of that paper tiger.


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ooh, mysterious unnamed "retaliation."  What's Putin gonna do, launch a second draft that includes toddlers this time?  I'm really shaking in my boots here.


You'll be pissed off when your banking system collapses, or you have no internet or your energy sytem takes a hit - you might not be shaking in your boots, but you'll be not be joking about it either.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> You'll be pissed off when your banking system collapses, or you have no internet or your energy sytem takes a hit - you might not be shaking in your boots, but you'll be not be joking about it either.


Again, you might think Putin is a total dumbass, but I do not.  If he can't handle the Ukrainian forces driving him out, he stands absolutely no chance against even a fraction of the US military.  He will not give us a reason to enter into this conflict.


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## sombrerosonic (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm really shaking in my boots here.


BOOBS???????

oh wait..... that says boots...... my bad


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> BOOBS???????
> 
> oh wait..... that says boots...... my bad


If I ever get fat enough to grow manboobs, they will not be pretty.  I have more hair on my chest than Austin Powers.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Right, but here you are flirting with the idea that waging "holy war" is acceptable so long as the opposition's words or ideas fly in the face of your beliefs.  There is no justifying what happened with the extremism against Charlie Hebdo, just as there is no justifying unprovoked invasion and imperialism.


It´s not getting into your thick head. I´m not justifying it. I am explaining it.

I am not flirting with the idea of holy war. For fuck´s sake. It is you who wages holy wars around the world. There were LGBTQ awareness days in Afghanistan and a Goerge Floyd memorial.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It´s not getting into your thick head. I´m not justifying it. I am explaining it.


I don't need poor excuses explained to me.  It's a matter of whether you agree with them or not, and it seems to me you're implying that you do.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is you who wages holy wars around the world.


It is the US, yes.  I maintain a position that ALL imperialism is wrong, including my own country's.  I actively protested against the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.  You want to pretend it's fine as long as it's anybody but the US doing it, which makes you a hypocrite.  If you want to change positions and denounce Putin's actions (aka war crimes), then I welcome that and won't hold it against you.


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Again, you might think Putin is a total dumbass, but I do not.  If he can't handle the Ukrainian forces driving him out, he stands absolutely no chance against even a fraction of the US military.  He will not give us a reason to enter into this conflict.


Didn't the 'poor farmers' in North Vietnam hear that, or hang on - wasn't it the uneducated Afghans? Well we can all see how that turned out, billions spent, graves litter those countries, the maimed returned home....how did the the US popultation benefit? - they never, all that happened was the people that sell weapons and services to the military got richer, and those with shares in those companies made themselves rich. The actual people doing the fighting - well all they did was lose something, their life, limbs, friends, time watching their kids grow up, their marriages etc. The people in those countries still live there and helped the Americans and the ones that thought America would "save them" have been left abandoned to their fates - many are now dead....so yeah! "America Fuck yeah!"

If you think USA selling weapons to Ukraine is for the benefit of Ukraine, then you are even dumber than I thought - all that's happening here is that people like Nancy Pelosi with shares in weapons companies and services companies are getting richer and you are paying for it all through your taxes.

If you don't think there's going to be any retaliation - well that's just wishfull thinking.


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## sombrerosonic (Oct 3, 2022)

Wait..... you'll all yelling...... when dose the hugging and kissing happen...... IM WAITING

Oh yea to give extra beef to the thread, Why would russia want to destroy there own pipe line?


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> If you think USA selling weapons to Ukraine is for the benefit of Ukraine, then you are even dumber than I thought - all that's happening here is that people like Nancy Pelosi with shares in weapons companies and services companies are getting richer and you are paying for it all through your taxes.


I'd be fully in favor of weapons manufacturers forgiving all of Ukraine's debt in the aftermath of this invasion.  Now, we all know that's not gonna happen, but it's also clear that Ukraine would no longer exist as a country without the weapons assistance provided by the US.  I cannot and will not accept the argument that we should've simply stood on the sidelines and watched the ethnic genocide of Ukrainians happen instead.  The parallels to those who insisted we should've allowed the genocide of the Jews during WW2 are uncanny.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Oh yea to give extra beef to the thread, Why would russia want to destroy there own pipe line?


Because even Russia's allies that share a border were beginning to sour on the Ukrainian invasion prior to that event.  Putin needed a way to scapegoat the West, and for him, the pipeline was more leverage over Europe than it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I'm not saying I know for certain it was a false flag operation, but I'm not dismissing it outright as a possibility, either.


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## mrdude (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'd be fully in favor of weapons manufacturers forgiving all of Ukraine's debt in the aftermath of this invasion.  Now, we all know that's not gonna happen, but it's also clear that Ukraine would no longer exist as a country without the weapons assistance provided by the US.  I cannot and will not accept the argument that we should've simply stood on the sidelines and watched the ethnic genocide of Ukrainians happen instead.  The parallels to those who insisted we should've allow the genocide of the Jews during WW2 are uncanny.


Yet you don't care when the same thing happens in some African county, or when hundreds of thousands of chinese are sent to "re-education" camps. Nah, of course not because you are not getting the same narrative from the MSM.

You've probably never been to Europe yourself or like many Americans - been outside of the USA, yet you seem to think what other countries get up to is somehow your buisiness. You probably have never heard of some countries before USA invaded them, but that's ok for the USA to do, but not for anyone else, right!


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## Viri (Oct 3, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I think Russia needs to supply Mexico with long-range weapons to take back its territories. Crimea is forever Ukrainian. Then ... .


Honestly, giving the US an excuse to invade Mexico, and dispose of the Cartel would probably get most Mexican citizens cheering, lol. Also, unlike Russia, the US can actually win a war against a country they boarder, even with China and Russia supplying them weapons.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Yet you don't care when the same thing happens in some African county, or when hundreds of thousands of chinese are sent to "re-education" camps.


I absolutely do care, and I even made a thread on this subforum specifically about the latter.  The former is a tragedy, but I'm not going to advocate for US intervention as that would violate my ethical code as an anti-imperialist.



mrdude said:


> You've probably never been to Europe yourself or like many Americans - been outside of the USA, yet you seem to think what other countries get up to is somehow your buisiness.


My very first memories are of Germany, actually.  Beautiful lush green country with beautiful architecture, I wish my family had stayed there.  We still have chunks of the Berlin wall stashed away.



mrdude said:


> You probably have never heard of some countries before USA invaded them, but that's ok for the USA to do, but not for anyone else, right!


You clearly haven't been paying the least bit of attention to my replies in this thread if you think that's my stance.  Imperialism is wrong, period.  It was _especially _wrong when we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, knowing full well that the Saudi royal family were actually the culprits behind funding and planning 9/11. I actively protested both invasions both before and after they occurred.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Because even Russia's allies that share a border were beginning to sour on the Ukrainian invasion prior to that event.  Putin needed a way to scapegoat the West, and for him, the pipeline was more leverage over Europe than it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.
> 
> I'm not saying I know for certain it was a false flag operation, but I'm not dismissing it outright as a possibility, either.


Why would they destroy the leverage they had when it still was leverage even if it was not as good leverage as before?
Why would they shoot themselves in the foot?
Why burn an important card they had to influence Europe's decision making?
Why destroy a potential source of income for after the war?

I don't buy it.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2022)

Viri said:


> US can actually win a war against a country they boarder, even with China and Russia supplying them weapons.


I don't think anybody could doubt that.
The only country that could today realistically wage and "win" a war against the US in their own territory is the US, civil war style.


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## Xzi (Oct 3, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> Why would they destroy the leverage they had when it still was leverage even if it was not as good leverage as before?
> Why would they shoot themselves in the foot?
> Why burn an important card they had to influence Europe's decision making?
> Why destroy a potential source of income for after the war?
> ...


Desperation.  When even your satellite states are turning against you, you need a boogeyman to redirect or at least overshadow blame for everything that's going wrong.  The most convenient one for Russia is and always has been the US.  It's also worth noting that if the goal was to attempt to drive a wedge between the US and its European allies, simply shutting the pipeline off and demanding more money would not accomplish that.

Again, I'm far from fully convinced that this theory is the correct one, but it's also well within Putin's usual MO, and so I don't feel it can be ruled out entirely.  Conservatives here also want to rule out the theory that it was a smaller group of extremists not connected to any government, but the motive absolutely exists.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Desperation.  When even your satellite states are turning against you, you need a boogeyman to redirect or at least overshadow blame for everything that's going wrong.


Russian satellites don´t care about Nord Stream. Only Germany cares and they already blame Ruissa - predictably so.


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## SG854 (Oct 6, 2022)

This thread is brought to you by Nord VPN. Nord VPN allows you to Stream Nord Stream News in Putins Russia


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

SG854 said:


> This thread is brought to you by Nord VPN. Nord VPN allows you to Stream Nord Stream News in Putins Russia


It also allows you to stream RT in Europe.


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## mrdude (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It also allows you to stream RT in Europe.


Or you can just save yourself some cash and use opera web browser with it's built in free VPN


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 6, 2022)

The "RT ban" is technically laughable, it is just a DNS ban. You can just type the IP address and it will still work no problem. No opera needed, no VPN needed.


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## Xzi (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russian satellites don´t care about Nord Stream. Only Germany cares and they already blame Ruissa - predictably so.


They care about optics.  Putin targeting civilians for torture and kidnapping in Ukraine wasn't enough for them to turn against him, but doing all that AND losing ground to Ukraine daily?  For that they were starting to sour on the invasion.  Sabotaging Nord Stream is potentially a way to bring them back into the fold by reminding them of who the "real" bad guys are, and that only daddy Putin can possibly protect them.

For the third time though, just a theory.  No better or worse than the theory that the US government is responsible, or that a group of activists unconnected to any government was responsible.  Time will tell as more investigations unfold.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No better or worse than the theory that the US government is responsible


Then Navalny was poisoned by Germany to badmouth Russia.
No better or worse than the theory of the Russian government poisoning him.


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## Xzi (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Then Navalny was poisoned by Germany to badmouth Russia.
> No better or worse than the theory of the Russian government poisoning him.


If he was Olaf Scholz's political rival and was sitting in a German prison after being slapped with bogus charges, you might have a leg to stand on there.  Occam's razor is enough on its own to discredit this theory entirely though, I'm afraid.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If he was Olaf Scholz's political rival and was sitting in a German prison after being slapped with bogus charges, you might have a leg to stand on there.  Occam's razor is enough on its own to discredit this theory entirely though, I'm afraid.


Funny how you think Occam's razor doesn´t apply to your theory of unnamed Russian satellite states getting angry at the Kremlin. Then the Kremlin did this to pacify them. Name the countries and how they have changed their mind since the sabotage.


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## Xzi (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Funny how you think Occam's razor doesn´t apply to your theory of unnamed Russian satellite states getting angry at the Kremlin.


Occam's razor doesn't apply because we have zero known or confirmed suspects in the sabotage/failure of Nord Stream.  Everything's speculative at this stage, as I've noted multiple times in my own posts.  OTOH, there's only one logical suspect connected to everything that's happened to Navalny.

It's almost as if being a ex-KGB agent turned lawless dictator who seized power through false flag bombings causes a lot of suspicion to be drawn to you naturally.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Occam's razor doesn't apply because we have zero known or confirmed suspects in the sabotage/failure of Nord Stream.  Everything's speculative at this stage, as I've noted multiple times in my own posts.  OTOH, there's only one logical suspect connected to everything that's happened to Navalny.


Everything is speculative about the Navalny case as well.
US ships were seen 30 and 50 km away from the sabotage spots.


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## Xzi (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Everything is speculative about the Navalny case as well.


It couldn't possibly be less speculative.  He is first and foremost the leader of political opposition to Putin, and was arrested the moment he returned to Russia for the "crime" of not dying after the Kremlin poisoned him.  To maintain any perception of legitimacy, Navalny would've had to have been freed from prison months ago, if not well over a year ago.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> US ships were seen 30 and 50 km away from the sabotage spots.


And who exactly were they seen by?  Russian ships that were even closer to that spot?  Correlation does not equal causation.  If you want real answers instead of simply leaning into your own biases, you have no choice but to let investigations play out.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

So in both cases, Putin is the suspect. Got ya.
Few days ago Putin also gave me a virus infection, aka a cold. A woman removed her mask to cough in my general direction. I immediately noticed that her height corresponds with Putin´s.


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## Xzi (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So in both cases, Putin is the suspect. Got ya.


Putin is the ONLY suspect in Navalny's case, as Putin is the one who stuck him in prison and refuses to free him or even provide reasoning for his continued imprisonment.

He's not a confirmed suspect in the sabotage of Nord Stream, nobody is until we have more info.  It's all speculative, and so that's exactly what I've been doing in this thread: speculating.  No need to get your panties in a bunch about it.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Putin is the ONLY suspect in Navalny's case, as Putin is the one who stuck him in prison and refuses to free him or even provide reasoning for his continued imprisonment.


I know. Your coffee, my cold. The man is mighty busy.

BTW charges against Navalny even mentioned on abcnews. Navalny knew he would go to prison but came back anyway.
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ged,punishable by up to three years in prison.


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## Xzi (Oct 6, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> BTW charges against Navalny even mentioned on abcnews. Navalny knew he would go to prison but came back anyway.
> https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ged,punishable by up to three years in prison.


Yes, he knew he would go to prison on _bogus charges_. And when his current sentence is almost up, they'll slap him with some other fictitious crime. It was quite brave of him to return despite the knowledge that Putin's justice system is entirely corrupt.


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## mrdude (Oct 6, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> The "RT ban" is technically laughable, it is just a DNS ban. You can just type the IP address and it will still work no problem. No opera needed, no VPN needed.


Good call, I never thought to try that as I always had a vpn anyway. For those that don't know how to ping...

https://185.79.236.174/news/563670-big-brother-watches-your-messages/


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## SScorpio (Oct 7, 2022)

https://www.thelocal.dk/20221005/russia-says-it-should-be-part-of-nord-stream-leaks-probe/


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## mrdude (Oct 7, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> https://www.thelocal.dk/20221005/russia-says-it-should-be-part-of-nord-stream-leaks-probe/



TBH anyone with a functioning brain knows that this was a malicious act of terrorism carried out at state level. That millions will be paying more for energy now and that millions will be freezing and are now being told to expect power cuts this winter. But yeah, USA will sell us gas, while they all pay more themselves and try and import their energy from Venezuela....

All the evidence points to a country that is a bully doing this, that has form for invading others and leaving a trail of destruction wherever it goes, and then tries to lecture others on morality....I'll let you make your own mind up on who that might be.


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## Xzi (Oct 7, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> https://www.thelocal.dk/20221005/russia-says-it-should-be-part-of-nord-stream-leaks-probe/
> 
> View attachment 330688


Hah, get fucked Russia.  Sweden seems like a good choice to conduct a truly independent investigation into this, as obviously Russia, the US, Germany, and Ukraine would all be too biased.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 9, 2022)

The Crimea bridge explosion wasn't a truck bombing, it was a missile strike. You can hear it was coming.

RIP to the victims.


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## SScorpio (Oct 9, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> The Crimea bridge explosion wasn't a truck bombing, it was a missile strike. You can hear it was coming.
> 
> RIP to the victims.


The 8th of the last few months has been interesting.

July 8th: Shinzo Abe assassinated
Aug 8th: Mar a Lago raided by FBI
Sep 8th: Queen Elizabeth died
Oct 8th: Crimean bridge attack -- Will this lead to even more heightened tension?
Nov 8th: US Midterm elections


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## mrdude (Oct 9, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> The 8th of the last few months has been interesting.
> 
> July 8th: Shinzo Abe assassinated
> Aug 8th: Mar a Lago raided by FBI
> ...


You forgot:
May 8th- First Monkeypox case in England.
June 8th - South Khorasan train derailment, 22 dead 87 injured.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 9, 2022)

mrdude said:


> You forgot:
> May 8th- First Monkeypox case in England.
> June 8th - South Khorasan train derailment, 22 dead 87 injured.


They found something in the sewage of London, let me check..



That was quickly forgotten about. Much like the Monkeypox vax although it's being given if people do want.



Nah, I'll pass.


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## mrdude (Oct 9, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> They found something in the sewage of London, let me check..


That will be one of those illegal immigrants that escaped from war torn France.


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## SScorpio (Oct 10, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Oct 8th: Crimean bridge attack -- Will this lead to even more heightened tension?


I'd call the bombing of cities an escalation, and it looks like it will continue to get worse.


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## mrdude (Oct 10, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I'd call the bombing of cities an escalation, and it looks like it will continue to get worse.


It doesn't matter what Putin does anymore, the west have already compared him to Hitler etc, so he may as well do what he wants now as it makes no difference anymore. Still considering what weapons and soldiers he has at his disposal, I'd say he's been rather reserved when he could have gone all scorched earth, like what USA does. He could have used biological weapons, nukes, destroyed critical infrastructre such as, main supply roads, airports, communications systems, energy systems etc - but he hasn't


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## SScorpio (Oct 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Still considering what weapons and soldiers he has at his disposal, I'd say he's been rather reserved when he could have gone all scortched earth, like what USA does.


Yes, he's held back a lot of the heavy stuff, but I wonder if that's his call or the military leaders. If they go scorched earth in Ukraine they would use up anything that could hold off their friends the Chinese and North Koreans from making moves and annexing territory.


Putin asks a general for an update on the war in Ukraine, who responds. I have good news and bad news.
Putin: What's the good news?
General: The Ukrainians' new supplies are outdated and in ill repair and failing apart.
Putin: That's good, what's the bad news?
General: The Ukrainians have overrun and captured three of our supply depots.


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## mrdude (Oct 10, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Yes, he's held back a lot of the heavy stuff, but I wonder if that's his call or the military leaders. If they go scorched earth in Ukraine they would use up anything that could hold off their friends the Chinese and North Koreans from making moves and annexing territory.
> 
> 
> Putin asks a general for an update on the war in Ukraine, who responds. I have good news and bad news.
> ...


TBH it's not really a full blown war that's happening, if it was we could see carnage and lots of death. The MSM is making this out to be a lot worse than it is, still they do have a narrative to push.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Nov 5, 2022)

There is no doubt anymore that it wasn´t Russia.
The request of one of the opposition leaders in the German goverment to share information about the attack was denied. It was classified top secret.

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/pol...formationen-zu-pipeline-anschlaegen-li.277250

How does that exonerate Russia? Any hint of Russian involvement would be gladly shared by the German goverment.


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 5, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There is no doubt anymore that it wasn´t Russia.
> The request of one of the opposition leaders in the German goverment to share information about the attack was denied. It was classified top secret.
> 
> https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/pol...formationen-zu-pipeline-anschlaegen-li.277250
> ...


Russia doing that was quite an unrealistic stretch before, and betrayal seems the more likely case.
The world is nasty. As ever. And it won't change.


----------

