# Trump Vs Biden - First 2020 Presidential Debates (09/29/2020)



## gregory-samba (Sep 29, 2020)

The first of three of socially distanced debates between Donald Trump and Joe Biden takes place on Tuesday (09/29/2020) night in Ohio. Tens of millions of Americans will get a close up look at the Republican and Democratic candidates hoping to win the presidential election on November 3rd, 2020. There's a few major media syndicates that include NBC, BBC

The Liberal leaning NBC News site posted an article claiming that the Presidential Debates are like a NFL game where the fans have already made up their mind who they're going with and are just there to root for their team. They then contradict that claim and mention how the candidates appearance and their mental state of mind has in the past influenced voters to change who they wanted to vote for. It's funny they couldn't make up their mind on what the effects of the debate will have on voters.

Most voters say Biden-Trump debates won't move them. Here's why they could matter.
--- https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...-biden-trump-debates-won-t-move-them-n1241259

Conservative leaning FOX News posted that President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden are preparing for Tuesday's debate in starkly different ways, with the latter engaging in mock stand-offs while the former says he's leveraging as practice the contentious environment he already faces as president. According to multiple reports, President Trump has refrained from traditional debate prep and eschewed practice sessions. 

After beating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who prepared extensively in 2016, Trump is suggesting he doesn't want to overdo it. “Sometimes you can go too much in that stuff,” Trump said during a press briefing on Sunday. Meanwhile, Biden has been holding mock debate sessions with senior adviser Bob Bauer and participated in huddles with top aides, according to CBS.

Biden aggressively prepares for debate while Trump cautions against excess preparation
--- https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-trump-debate-preparation

BBC's Anthony Zurcher gives us The Lowdown on what to expect from a contest that's likely to get personal.

Trump and Biden: What to watch for in first presidential debate
--- https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us-2020-54300076

So what's your take? Are you going to watch the debates? Do you think the debates could change your mind on who you've planned to vote for?


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## deficitdisorder (Sep 29, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Are you going to watch the debates? Do you think the debates could change your mind on who you've planned to vote for?



Yes ill watch because i find them fascinating but it has been a long time seen a debate performance and any real sway on my opinion. Its performance theater. We almost never learn anything new about the candidates or more importantly their positions. Most people who will focus on issues over person arent gonna change their mind but most of those people are decided already.

Debate is a last ditch attempt at those swing voters who follow literally zero politics during the year. People like my mother whose only engagement in politics is October and need to learn almost everything from scratch.

Trump doing better then absolute disaster will win over more then a few voters. Talk prepandemic economy, give actual plans for the next term. Biden really needs to pin him to his pandemic response fumbling. Also Biden needs avoid verbal stumbling the right loves to pin mental decline despite trump having the exact same issues.


QUICK EDIT
"After beating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who prepared extensively in 2016"

FUCKING LOL. There is no reality in which Trump did better then a tie in those debates. People expected a meltdowm and when he did alright he got bonus points. What sank Clintom wasnt debate performance.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 29, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The Liberal leaning NBC News site posted an article claiming that the Presidential Debates are like a NFL game where the fans have already made up their mind who they're going with and are just there to root for their team. They then contradict that claim and mention how the candidates appearance and their mental state of mind has in the past influenced voters to change who they wanted to vote for. It's funny they couldn't make up their mind on what the effects of the debate will have on voters.


I don't see the contradiction. If their pooling is accurate, 29% of Americans are still undecided. 71% that won't budge is a significant number (hence the word 'most' in the article), but both 'teams' cancel each other out for a large part. As such, the undecideds 'opinions can make or break a president.

Oh, and there's also the turn up that matters. You can root for your party all you want, but if you don't go out to vote you might as well not exist. The debate are also meant to seduce their base to cast their vote.


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## notimp (Sep 29, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> If their pooling is accurate, 29% of Americans are still undecided.


On the most polarizing election one could imagine...

Right to choose might be revoked in a few states next year, president is 400 million in the debt, over the next 4 years, and will be sued, there wasnt much in terms of federal action on covid, unemployment numbers are at record levels, there were riots in the streets, the nuclear safety treaties are being dismantled, wall street was bailed out again, on the democratic side you have a party geriatric party soldier, they aim to get some form of broader health care installed - but hmmm.... one third of people arent quite so sure yet. Lets decide on who has the better display of personality on a debate stage...

While one of the candidates tries to undermine the concept of mail voting through assertions and PR...

All of that - pretty baffling...


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## 0x3000027E (Sep 29, 2020)

notimp said:


> On the most polarizing election one could imagine...
> 
> Right to choose might be revoked in a few states next year, president is 400 million in the debt, over the next 4 years, and will be sued, there wasnt much in terms of federal action on covid, unemployment numbers are at record levels, there were riots in the streets, the nuclear safety treaties are being dismantled, wall street was bailed out again, on the democratic side you have a party geriatric party soldier, they aim to get some form of broader health care installed - but hmmm.... one third of people arent quite so sure yet. Lets decide on who has the better display of personality on a debate stage...
> 
> ...



"Baffling" is that you are surprised by Trump's debt. Do you know anything about this man? He literally wrote the book on turning bankruptcy to an advantage. The problem with the president has always been his intimate ties to the world of business (and how this may negatively affect policy), but you are always going on about some other bullshit.

You seem to have this naive idea that these political parties are based in ideology. That the politicians themselves are *philosophers*, each side with it's own set of fundamental ethics and principles to live by.

That's some real fucking horseshit.

Unfortunately, while the populace is choosing opposite sides and pointing fingers, the real solution of implementing term limits can never be realized. Thanks a lot for that.


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## notimp (Sep 29, 2020)

0x3000027E said:


> "Baffling" is that you are surprised by Trump's debt. Do you know anything about this man? He literally wrote the book on turning bankruptcy to an advantage.


Ehm, no... I actually looked up his wealth attribution going through Economist backissues (pdfs) once, and posted that here...
https://gbatemp.net/threads/culture-fails.532287/page-2#post-8634306


 that was before that video made digesting the results of that, much simpler... 


The way he turned near bankruptcy into an advantage, was back in the 80s, when there was a building boom (NY incentivized new construction projects, (writeoffs and depreciations) quote Tump 'everyone was doing it, everyone was taking out loans to invest'), and he had some prestige projects going. He basically used public grants and investor money and loans to finance development, then you are 'broke' (he never went through personal bankruptcy) in terms of taxable assets (you are writing off losses), and have high liabilities, but the outcome in the 'high class' real estate market is a pretty safe bet.

Basically when banks are encouraging you to take out loans, if you are Trump in the 80s, you take them, because you have a project and many backers that believe you and spread risk, in a 'not that risky' business.

Nowadays most of his registered income comes from selling his brand, and golf courses (although those arent doing so well currently), he pretty much has lost his 'hype' from being a real estate developer (casino flops (scalping businesses, before sending them into bancrucy) and bankruptcies in Vegas), credit is not easy to get (there are no 'safe bets' out there to scale any development immensely, as someone with the background of Trump.

And now he has 400 mio in liabilities that are due  in the next 4 years, and no more stocks, or liquid assets according to his tax reports.

So there are three options.

1. He goes bankrupt. (unlikely)
2. He looses some of the real estate assets he still holds at below market rate.
3. He's lied on his tax report, and gets audited in the next years and struck with millions of fines.

4. He becomes president, and still tries to do some deals, wield influence, but even then - there is nothing you'd cut a Trump in for 400 million... I mean, he cant give you a free trade deal on his own...

Idk, how much does the military industrial complex like him? And as those are loans, where the hell did that investment go, because the argument is valid for the past ten years or so... who backs a Trump for 400 mio? He basically was a reality TV star at that point.

edit: Less than that, actually:



> Trump’s biggest creditor is Deutsche Bank, which in the late 1990s took a gamble on the real estate developer whose history of corporate bankruptcies made him untouchable by most other lenders. Although Trump and the Frankfurt-based bank pulled off several profitable deals, eventually Deutsche’s commercial lending division learned the hard way one reason why other banks considered him persona non grata: If pushed by his creditors on payments, Trump shoves back. In 2008, after he defaulted on a loan for his Chicago hotel and condo development, he filed a multibillion-dollar suit accusing Deutsche Bank and others of contributing to the recent financial meltdown, which he blamed for his inability to repay the loan.


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/donald-trump-loans-deutsche-bank/

So are those still Deutschbank loans, underwritten by russia? Again, from the leaks, an attribution is not possible.

edit: Seems so:


> Nevertheless, Deutsche’s private banking division, which caters to wealthy clientele, continued to lend to Trump, giving him $125 million, spread over two loans, to finance the purchase and renovation of his Doral golf resort in 2012. Both are floating rate loans, meaning the interest rate fluctuates based on market conditions, which lending experts say usually indicates they are interest-only loans. If so, Trump probably hasn’t paid down much if any of the principal and will owe something close to the whole $125 million when the loans come due in 2023.


At least we now know, that his 'big bets' were still in golf resorts and hotels in 2012.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 29, 2020)

notimp said:


> On the most polarizing election one could imagine...
> 
> Right to choose might be revoked in a few states next year, president is 400 million in the debt, over the next 4 years, and will be sued, there wasnt much in terms of federal action on covid, unemployment numbers are at record levels, there were riots in the streets, the nuclear safety treaties are being dismantled, wall street was bailed out again, on the democratic side you have a party geriatric party soldier, they aim to get some form of broader health care installed - but hmmm.... one third of people arent quite so sure yet. Lets decide on who has the better display of personality on a debate stage...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't get those Americans either. Trump has long surpassed cartoonish villain kind of maliciousness, but somehow some people are determined to be undecided. I mean... At least his fanclub is vocal. And yeah... If I was a rich guy, a racist or a religious pro - lifer, I' d probably pick Trump as well . But do many still undecided is almost surreal...

Meanwhile, 40 years in the future :
Poller: so... Who are you going to vote for coming election? :-) 
Caller: eeerrrmmm... I haven't decided. I guess I'll watch the debates first.
Poller: you're aware that Cthulhu aims to awaken the eldritch Gods and turn humanity either insane or dead? 
Caller: yeah... He certainly got ambition. But his followers claim that there'll be a new era for mankind, so who knows? 
Poller: so human extinction doesn't strike you as inhumane? 
Caller : well... I don't like most people, but okay : I'm not really onboard with that stuff. But the other guy... What's he called again? 
Poller: Joe Average
Caller : yeah... He's a nice guy, but he's no elder God. I don't see him standing up to all the countries we're at war with. 
Poller: but... we're not at war? 
Caller : not yet we ain't. But look... I'm not 'just' going to vote for him because he's a political genius. I just... I want to see the debate first, okay? Just call me afterwards...


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 29, 2020)

I just want someone to punch the other guy in the face. I'd vote for that guy.


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## rsx (Sep 30, 2020)

There's your answer.


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## SG854 (Sep 30, 2020)

This is my response to this question


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## 0x3000027E (Sep 30, 2020)

notimp said:


> Ehm, no... I actually looked up his wealth attribution going through Economist backissues (pdfs) once, and posted that here...
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/culture-fails.532287/page-2#post-8634306
> 
> 
> ...



Well said, however why exclude Trump from the lot? Every politician, (including their bloated administrations) are..................meh, forget it, I just cant get this point across.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 30, 2020)

SG854 said:


> This is my response to this question



this is why america is doomed because people rather not vote or throw away their vote just pick the lesser of two evils cause voting counts (and seeing all the damning evidence on trump including tax evasion)

as for the debate i'm afraid trump just won't shut up amd ,ake personal attacks on biden and his family including his deceased son which imo would sink trumps chances of getting undecided voters only idiots with zero family morals will vote for him then bassicly trump will turn the debate into a total shitshow anyone with a brain can clearly see that coming


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Trump is blowing it


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

ok, he pulled it back a bit and is doing a bit better. Joe isn't doing too bad.


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## Noctosphere (Sep 30, 2020)

Trump is such a bullshitter
with us, we have 200 000 death
if you were president, you would have 2 000 000 death


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

Joe....are you ok there?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

think he lost it for a sec


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## Rail Fighter (Sep 30, 2020)

Someone should warn Biden that laughing is not an argument.


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## matias3ds (Sep 30, 2020)

biden looks like trumps grandfather


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

Damn

Trump is going in!


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## Noctosphere (Sep 30, 2020)

Trump keeps saying he did more for afroamericain than any other past president
What did he do for them exactly in the past 4 years?


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

Noctosphere said:


> Trump keeps saying he did more for afroamericain than any other past president
> What did he do for them exactly in the past 4 years?



Lowest unemployment for the black community and the First Step Act that help get a lot of criminals (a lot black) for minor offenses out of jail.


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## elm (Sep 30, 2020)

The orange man who spends $70,000 on his bad weave and interrupts Joe because he has no correct answers.

Trump is a 100% dumb ass


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## Noctosphere (Sep 30, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> Lowest unemployment for the black community and the First Step Act that help get a lot of criminals (a lot black) for minor offenses out of jail.


well, here in quebec, minor offense criminals arent placed in the same prison as other strong criminals
And in every case of crimes (except murder), you can get out of jail after 1/6 of your sentence, depending on hoiw you were in jail
I don't know why he should get minor criminals out of jail for free, they should take their sentence in jail and shut the hell up, no?


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

I actually feel bad for the mod. He is doing a great job.


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## Noctosphere (Sep 30, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> I actually feel bad for the mod. He is doing a great job.


he should have cut trumps microphone so many times now...


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## Rail Fighter (Sep 30, 2020)




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## elm (Sep 30, 2020)

Noctosphere said:


> he should have cut trumps microphone so many times now...



Exactly !!  Trump loves talking out of his ass and interrupting people so he can avoid the questions


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

Noctosphere said:


> well, here in quebec, minor offense criminals arent placed in the same prison as other strong criminals
> And in every case of crimes (except murder), you can get out of jail after 1/6 of your sentence, depending on hoiw you were in jail
> I don't know why he should get minor criminals out of jail for free, they should take their sentence in jail and shut the hell up, no?



The minor crimes in question are things like drug possession and non-violent offenders. I don't like the fact that people go to jail for having drugs on them. If we can get those people out and help get them back into society the better.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Noctosphere said:


> he should have cut trumps microphone so many times now...



Agreed lol; Its not a good look for him.


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## elm (Sep 30, 2020)

Rail Fighter said:


>


Do you live in the USA ??
If you don’t you shouldn’t be in this chat


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

ok this wasn't a good look for Trump

He took a hit here.


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## Noctosphere (Sep 30, 2020)

elm said:


> Do you live in the USA ??
> If you don’t you shouldn’t be in this chat


I'm canadian and it affects us too


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## Retinal_FAILURE (Sep 30, 2020)

I'm watching right now...I keep on being told what I think...But because I'm ME, I KNOW WHAT I THINK!





matias3ds said:


> biden looks like trumps grandfather


His bags are smaller, his hair or lack of looks human in comparison.

The word Gentleman in the dictionary meant little tonight. God Bless and good night!


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## elm (Sep 30, 2020)

I love when people who don’t live in the USA


Noctosphere said:


> I'm canadian and it affects us too



Canadians do count ... I was referring to Rail Fighter from Russia, but of course they want Trump to win, that’s Putin’s little Puppet


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 30, 2020)

Looks like its over and it went as well as I thought it would; that is to say it was a pretty entertaining trash fire.

I'm sure it has changed nobodies mind.

 Thank you and good night!


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## elm (Sep 30, 2020)

How did I do ... did my weave look good on tv ??


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## Noctosphere (Sep 30, 2020)

night night guys


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## KingVamp (Sep 30, 2020)

I caught some just because I was awake, but yeah, I doubt this debate is going change that many minds.


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## SG854 (Sep 30, 2020)

CallmeBerto said:


> Looks like its over and it went as well as I thought it would; that is to say it was a pretty entertaining trash fire.
> 
> I'm sure it has changed nobodies mind.
> 
> Thank you and good night!


At this point nobodies mind is going to change. People mind are set. The next debates are pointless for changing peoples mind. We already know how its going to go down. We all know how Trump and Biden are going to act in their typical predictable behavior. No ones mind will change. People are just watching them for the entertainment value at this point.


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## Delerious (Sep 30, 2020)

These are the two best people that the general public have decided should lead our country huh? Trump yells, Biden provides no concrete plan and both are lying 80% of the time. Big surprise!



chrisrlink said:


> this is why america is doomed because people rather not vote or throw away their vote just pick the lesser of two evils cause voting counts (and seeing all the damning evidence on trump including tax evasion)



It's why people need to educate themselves on every candidate and actually put value into the primaries. The primaries practically decide whether or not we'll ultimately get another corporate/party shill that will only keep on pushing more socialist policies for the rich.


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## wartutor (Sep 30, 2020)

I just cant wait till all this is over and trump wins. Or he doesnt and screams voter fraud due to mail in ballots getting screwed up.


elm said:


> Do you live in the USA ??
> If you don’t you shouldn’t be in this chat


Who the fuck made you president of the fucking "you dont live here and dont have a right to listen or chime in on this topic". for shit sake when did we start telling people they cant have an opinion because of where they are from....must be a dip shit biden supporter. (Btw the last part was deduced by u attacking someone that posted a pic of biden doin shit. I in no way think all biden supporters are dip shits, just most of them. For that matter so is most trump supporters. )



Delerious said:


> These are the two best people that the general public have decided should lead our country huh? Trump yells, Biden provides no concrete plan and both are lying 80% of the time. Big surprise!
> 
> 
> 
> It's why people need to educate themselves on every candidate and actually put value into the primaries. The primaries practically decide whether or not we'll ultimately get another corporate/party shill that will only keep on pushing more socialist policies for the rich.


We get that either way because all politics are corrupt


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## gregory-samba (Sep 30, 2020)

I watched the broadcast and didn't like what I saw. Most of the time it was either Biden interrupting Trump or Trump interrupting Biden during their exclusive comment time. Both candidates bickered like old women and didn't really law out any plans on how they are going to fix things.


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## elm (Oct 1, 2020)

wartutor said:


> I just cant wait till all this is over and trump wins. Or he doesnt and screams voter fraud due to mail in ballots getting screwed up.
> 
> Who the fuck made you president of the fucking "you dont live here and dont have a right to listen or chime in on this topic". for shit sake when did we start telling people they cant have an opinion because of where they are from....must be a dip shit biden supporter. (Btw the last part was deduced by u attacking someone that posted a pic of biden doin shit. I in no way think all biden supporters are dip shits, just most of them. For that matter so is most trump supporters. )
> 
> ...




You sound like One of Trump’s and Putin’s little puppet


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## Joeseph Mother (Oct 1, 2020)

Trump is a dick and Biden is the dumbest man alive. And if you didn’t know these things before the debate, welcome to the internet, now leave as soon as possible, it’s terrible here.


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## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I watched the broadcast and didn't like what I saw. Most of the time it was either Biden interrupting Trump or Trump interrupting Biden during their exclusive comment time. Both candidates bickered like old women and didn't really law out any plans on how they are going to fix things.



Let's not give Chris Wallace a pass. He was clearly only asking questions that were negative to Trump and mostly positive to Biden.


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## wartutor (Oct 1, 2020)

elm said:


> You sound like One of Trump’s and Putin’s little puppet


Ha ha lmao im not a supporter of either of those two (or our whole government for that matter it all needs tore down and restructured) but the lesser of 2 evils is clearly trump. As far as the debate it was pre screened questions that the answers were written out and told to them both.  I mean for fuck sakes biden had a god damn ear piece in telling him what to say. Trump probably had 1 too but hes to damn hard headed and blurts out so much shit they probably stopped tryin to tell him what to say after 2 minutes lol


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## gregory-samba (Oct 1, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Let's not give Chris Wallace a pass. He was clearly only asking questions that were negative to Trump and mostly positive to Biden.



It's more like the questions being asked were biased. Did Chris Wallace write them himself? If so then yes I agree with you. If not then blame the person(s) who wrote the questions.


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## notimp (Oct 1, 2020)

You realize, that you are now stringing up a Fox news anchor for them being too biased towards Biden?

Also what questions would you have liked? Despite 'the ones that would have made Trump look better - judging from outcome'?

Because apart from one ("what do you say to the armed militias on the streets?") questions were not targeted.

The list of topics was known to both camps, before the debate, because it was public.
src: https://www.debates.org/2020/09/22/moderator-announces-topics-for-first-presidential-debate-2/

Yes, but, but - but what?

Again which questions did you want to hear? Its not that there are any field that the Trump administration wants you to talk more about.

Trump promoted at the debates, that 'there will be so much election fraud', despite the election not having taken place yet. And despite the only irragularities in his favor being "a guy that tried to fill out mail in ballots at a post office - and was caught", despite the head of the FBI stating publicly, that there never has been an coordinated attempt at voting fraud in the US, mail or otherwise, and that he doesnt see a risk this year. Are those the topics you'd have wanted Trump to spend more time on?

Because here is the democratic rebutle to this. Trump croneys in the post office dismantled mail sorting machines for no reason (expensive to get, then very low cost to run) to slow down the processing of mail during the election, Trumps son telling telling the hardcores, that they should come out on election day an 'look very closely if voting fraud is going on - because, and I quote, "they are trying to steal the election from my father", which has the potential to intimidate elderly voters that might be opposed to a brownshirt rally in front of a voting place to stay home. Caused by what? The voting commitees that ran the thing the past years (bi partisan) doing something wrong? No...

What else? You had the China, what gives? question in the debate, and the president that brought nothing to the table but to stutter "3 million" and "no your other son, hunter" into camera. Thats all you have to say about the trade wars to people?

I mean this is a display of insanity and idiocy, that keeps all facts from people who are supposed to vote.

On health care, "No - no, I got rid of individual mandate, that was what people said was, so bad, remeber?"
What the heck is going on here? Is he saying that he's a lemming? Without any ability to explain 'why' he might have done that structurally?

The list goes on.


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## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's more like the questions being asked were biased. Did Chris Wallace write them himself? If so then yes I agree with you. If not then blame the person(s) who wrote the questions.



I would go to my parents house and they would watch his show, he bashed Trump all the time.


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## deficitdisorder (Oct 4, 2020)

Some of the first after debate polling is out and its not looking good for Trump.  2-3 point bump for Biden and all of the battleground state now even or showing a biden lead. 

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/7221894/200781-NBCWSJ-October-Post-Debate-Poll-1b.pdf

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-poll-idUSKBN26P0DT


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## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

deficitdisorder said:


> Some of the first after debate polling is out and its not looking good for Trump.  2-3 point bump for Biden and all of the battleground state now even or showing a biden lead.
> 
> https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/7221894/200781-NBCWSJ-October-Post-Debate-Poll-1b.pdf
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-poll-idUSKBN26P0DT


Trump's aggregate polling deficit currently sits at 8 points, which is embarrassingly bad for an incumbent:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/


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