# Gay Sex Suicide



## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2010)

rawstory said:
			
		

> A New Jersey college student jumped to his death off a bridge a day after authorities say two classmates surreptitiously recorded him having sex with a man in his dorm room and broadcast it over the Internet.
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> Rutgers University student Tyler Clementi jumped from the George Washington Bridge last week, said his family's attorney, Paul Mainardi. Police recovered a man's body Wednesday afternoon in the Hudson River just north of the bridge, and authorities were trying to determine if it was Clementi's.
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Source

These stories are shocking. Why anyone would go to such lengths to frame their room-mate is definitely unacceptable in my view.

edit: damn homophobes.


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## Dionysus (Oct 1, 2010)

allow that bruv


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## blacksniper (Oct 1, 2010)

Shame. On the plus side they will have an unrivaled chance to find out anal sex isn't so bad in prison... although it's not going to be nearly as romantic.


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## Amber Lamps (Oct 1, 2010)

Is he burning in hell now? and above, agreed.


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## Forstride (Oct 1, 2010)

My friend posted about it on Facebook, and I was just appalled.  People think it's so funny to ridicule and kill someone on the inside, until they actually do kill themselves.  It's even worse how he put it out there to anyone who wanted to see it.  Five years in prison?  Make it more.


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## Gh0sti (Oct 1, 2010)

that sucks i hate that we do this to people


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## dan80315 (Oct 1, 2010)

That was so gay of them to do that.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 1, 2010)

Those jailbirds will soon find out just how much privacy means to a person. Also, 5 years is not enough imo for this kind of crime.


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## prowler (Oct 1, 2010)

squirrelman10 said:
			
		

> that sucks i hate that *we* do this to people


We?


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## Samurai Goomba (Oct 1, 2010)

prowler_ said:
			
		

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Mankind.

...Americans?


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## Depravo (Oct 1, 2010)

jet™ said:
			
		

> Why anyone would go to such lengths to *frame* their room-mate is definitely unacceptable in my view.


So he didn't really have sex with a man? I thought the term 'to frame' meant to falsely incriminate a person through falsified evidence.


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## blacksniper (Oct 1, 2010)

Samurai Goomba said:
			
		

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Yes, because all Americans hate people who are not like them. Assholes and idiots hate people that are not like them and every country has assholes and idiots.


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## 0ddity (Oct 1, 2010)

This isn't the only story like this. Also in the last few days, a 13 year old in Texas shot himself in the head in his closet because he was bullied for being gay. Another 13 year old hung himself in California in his backyard


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## Samurai Goomba (Oct 1, 2010)

blacksniper said:
			
		

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It's called a joke, my friend.


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## blacksniper (Oct 1, 2010)

Jokes don't come over well in a topic this serious. Especially when delivered through text.


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## wolfmanz51 (Oct 1, 2010)

well both people are at fault here suicide is never the answer, and it should not take that to make a point.


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## Depravo (Oct 1, 2010)

0ddity said:
			
		

> a 13 year old in Texas shot himself in the head *in his closet* because he was bullied for being gay.


There's got to be some kind of irony there.


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## Hells Malice (Oct 1, 2010)

They could face a whole 5 years in prison MAX for causing a suicide?
Oh jesus don't be so harsh!

...Fuck. The legal system is retarded sometimes if it actually lets people off so easy. It may not have been their intention to cause the suicide, but it happened, and it should count for something.


Though honestly, suicide for that is...kind of sad. Yeah it's incredibly embarrassing, but why in the hell end your life over it?


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## Goli (Oct 1, 2010)

Poor guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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To think some people actually do that on purpose and get paid for it, he could have at least sold his video to some porn website to get a bit of money or something instead of suiciding. :/.


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## Coto (Oct 1, 2010)

Poor of the guy..

You know... when you´ve been harshly bullied, anything can be an exit... sadly.

If he had the proper support by their parents/friends I really doubt he´d have commited suicide..

Rest in peace.


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## injected11 (Oct 1, 2010)

Hells Malice said:
			
		

> It may not have been their intention to cause the suicide, but it happened, and it should count for something.


They are legally responsible for any foreseeable result of their actions. Seeing as there are more and more news stories about very similar situations with the same results, it was considerably foreseeable. They are responsible.

This is really disheartening. Bullying really needs to be dealt with. Teachers being unwilling or unable to help because a fear of punishment against themselves seems like teachers are being bullied by parents and school boards. Things need to be changed, and they need to be changed NOW. What things have come from bullying, other than suicides or murder sprees?


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## SamAsh07 (Oct 1, 2010)

God this is unbelievable, US people really need to be raised with more love than that...this is ridiculous


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## Prophet6000 (Oct 1, 2010)

well he killed himself i dont show any compassion for those who choose suicide.
and life goes on. I hope the people who did that to him get what deserve


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## omgpwn666 (Oct 1, 2010)

Prophet6000 said:
			
		

> well he killed himself* i dont show any compassion for those who choose suicide*.
> and life goes on. I hope the people who did that to him get what deserve



Oh thank god, I thought I was the only one who thought that way. Anyways... I don't know what to say. He got filmed being gay, so he killed himself. Which is odd since gay people usually don't give a fuck about being gay. That's like me killing myself because I get caught having sex with a woman.


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## _Chaz_ (Oct 1, 2010)

I think I saw this on the news the other day. 

I had forgotten about it, which is probably what the family of the guy would want most people to do. Way to go, douche.


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## Pliskron (Oct 1, 2010)

It's never too good to be so queer but once embraced by the night one seldom cares.


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## Warrior522 (Oct 1, 2010)

...depressing. Remind me to guard Cat Boy and jet more carefully from now on; homophobes be damned.


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## Depravo (Oct 1, 2010)

Warrior522 said:
			
		

> ...depressing. Remind me to guard Cat Boy and jet more carefully from now on; homophobes be damned.


The only homophobic one was Tyler Clementi himself. He clearly thought homosexuality was something to be embarrassed or ashamed about. I don't condone the bullying but I wouldn't class this as a homophobic hate crime, just a childish prank that went horribly wrong.


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## Hells Malice (Oct 1, 2010)

injected11 said:
			
		

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Yet they only face UP TO 5 years in prison. What they did was 3rd degree murder (or, manslaughter. Same charge I believe).

To be honest, the whole legal system is bullshit to me. Ending someones life will only net you a very small time in jail in comparison to how much time you took away.

The worst part though, is if the guys who caused this dude to suicide were gay bashers...then they're probably proud of what they caused, but that wont affect the trial at all either.

The legal system is too up its own ass in rules, and doesn't leave room for common sense.


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## blacksniper (Oct 1, 2010)

Depravo said:
			
		

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Is it also a childish prank to try and scare somebody by pointing a gun at their head and pulling the trigger because you think the gun isn't loaded?


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## Sephi (Oct 1, 2010)

blacksniper said:
			
		

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I thought that was hilarious in Boondock Saints.


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## Man18 (Oct 1, 2010)

DiscostewSM said:
			
		

> Those jailbirds will soon find out just how much privacy means to a person. Also, 5 years is not enough imo for this kind of crime.


Bull Shit


5 years is way 2 much they shouldnt face any time in jail for what they did.


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## Paarish (Oct 1, 2010)

Man18 said:
			
		

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They indirectly caused the murder of said person so yeah they deserve more


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## Sephi (Oct 1, 2010)

30084pm said:
			
		

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I think 6 months would suffice, not like they wanted the guy to kill himself.


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## Man18 (Oct 1, 2010)

Sephi said:
			
		

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Thank god someone to speak for the gay side of the argument. 

I agree with sephi it wasnt their fault


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## Paarish (Oct 1, 2010)

Sephi said:
			
		

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then manslaughter...


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## DS1 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm a little more interested in the racial implications here. Brown dude and Chinese chick playing a prank on a gay Italian kid? In New Jersey?


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## Warrior522 (Oct 1, 2010)

blacksniper said:
			
		

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That was a nearly fatal case for a close friend; the gun was aimed at a bed instead...


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## Acetic Orcein (Oct 1, 2010)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

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No compassion for suicide... It sort of irritates me when people say this.
I think it really depends. It's easy for you to say such a thing, you're (at least I hope) in a rational and right thinking state. You may be strong enough to cope with having yourself projected all over the internet in a humiliating way, but other people may not be so. Some people cope differently. A sudden short of... 'shock' like this can be enough to trigger an irrational response, perhaps he was afraid of being outed or he felt ridculously humiliated?

Again, it's easy for you to say such a thing, but it's alot harder when you're in that situation where you don't have complete control of your emotions. You lose rational thought, you don't know who is going to support you? It's a pretty nasty situation to be in. So I really think you should consider how other people may feel. Not every gay person is happy with who they are and having something like that broadcast when you're not ready for it to be, would be devastating. I mean, the method in which it was released was pretty disgusting. 

My main point is that suicide is of course very bad! Just remember people may be thrown into terrible situations where they can't cope- even if you deem it to be something really silly, for someone else it could be a nightmare.


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## Man18 (Oct 1, 2010)

yea fuck suicide, I drink


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## 0ddity (Oct 1, 2010)

The reason they are facing possible jail time has nothing to do with the fact that he killed himself, its because they commited a crime by recording and distributing a video of him having sex without his knowledge.


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## trumpet-205 (Oct 1, 2010)

It is not like those 2 kids wanted the boy to suicide. So people should not hold them accountable for that. I do find that they should be hold accountable for invasion of privacy.


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## blacksniper (Oct 1, 2010)

You can get 6 months for child support. They drove a man to kill himself and you think 6 months is enough? They caused an immense amount of pain for who knows how many people and you think 6 months is okay.


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## Man18 (Oct 1, 2010)

you dont get 5 years for recording that shit


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## 0ddity (Oct 1, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> It is not like those 2 kids wanted the boy to suicide.
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> Intent doesn't matter. A drunk driver doesn't intend to kill people, but they can be held responsible, and even charged with 2nd degree murder as a result. As long as it is provable that a foreseeable consequence of the action would cause death, they should be held responsible. Not to the degree of my drunk driver scenario, but when you intentionally cause someone immense emotional distress, suicide is a foreseeable consequence.
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> QUOTEyou dont get 5 years for recording that shit




In New Jersey, it is a fourth-degree crime to collect or view images depicting nudity or sexual contact involving another individual without that person's consent. It is a third-degree crime to transmit or distribute the images. In the case of a conviction in the third degree (which is highly probably since the images were obviously distributed without consent) the sentence is a maximum of 5 years.


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## Sephi (Oct 1, 2010)

blacksniper said:
			
		

> You can get 6 months for child support. They drove a man to kill himself and you think 6 months is enough? They caused an immense amount of pain for who knows how many people and you think 6 months is okay.


wasting time and money in a prison system won't bring that dead gay guy back to life.


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## trumpet-205 (Oct 1, 2010)

blacksniper said:
			
		

> You can get 6 months for child support. They drove a man to kill himself and you think 6 months is enough? They caused an immense amount of pain for who knows how many people and you think 6 months is okay.


Sure, what they did is immoral and caused "an immense amount of pain" to him, but those kids never intended to drive a person into suicide. I'm not trying to defend them of their wrongdoing. Besides, as long as those two kids continue to live on, they will have to bear the guilt of this event.


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## blacksniper (Oct 1, 2010)

And they can do it behind bars which will give the families they harmed piece of mind knowing these assholes aren't in the world KILLING people.


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## 0ddity (Oct 1, 2010)

See my post on the end of page 3 for an explanation of why 5 years is appropriate in this case.


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## Sephi (Oct 1, 2010)

blacksniper said:
			
		

> And they can do it behind bars which will give the families they harmed piece of mind knowing these assholes aren't in the world KILLING people.


Accidents happen, quit your whining.


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## 0ddity (Oct 1, 2010)

Sephi said:
			
		

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*They aren't being prosecuted* for the suicide. They're being prosecuted for* the crimes* they committed.


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## Sephi (Oct 1, 2010)

I was referring to him saying they are killers, when they aren't. the only killer is that gay guy that killed himself, he's the real murderer here.


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## Depravo (Oct 1, 2010)

0ddity said:
			
		

> *They aren't being prosecuted* for the suicide. They're being prosecuted for* the crimes* they committed.


Which are what exactly? Simply invading someone's privacy?


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## Sephi (Oct 1, 2010)

Depravo said:
			
		

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In New Jersey it's illegal to make porn of someone without their consent.


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## Gullwing (Oct 1, 2010)

I really don't care what paople do in their beds but broadcasting such a thing is disgraceful...


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## thebigboss14 (Oct 1, 2010)

That's crazy how come they will only get 5 years that should be more than that. 5 years it's like selling drugs and having guns but this is horrible why not more. This is pretty irritating that people don't really respect crimes and really act with fairness towards them.


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## Depravo (Oct 1, 2010)

Sephi said:
			
		

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Ah, that's fair enough then.


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## trumpet-205 (Oct 1, 2010)

You need to separate moral and law. Yes, it is irritating that they only pay such small prices out of this, but that is the law. Like I said, as long as those two kids continue to live on, they will have to bear the guilt of this event.


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## DS1 (Oct 1, 2010)

trumpet-205 said:
			
		

> You need to separate moral and law. Yes, it is irritating that they only pay such small prices out of this, but that is the law. Like I said, as long as those two kids continue to live on, they will have to bear the guilt of this event.



And years of paying counselors to tell them that it wasn't their fault, and that the kid was screwed up to begin with. Unless of course this was a true hate crime, and they don't believe they did anything wrong.


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## Deleted User (Oct 1, 2010)

all i can say is yay, the guy who webcammed him will get fucked for the rest of his life. In prison (literally), and when he gets out (not literally).


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## Joe88 (Oct 1, 2010)

jet™ said:
			
		

> all i can say is yay, the guy who webcammed him will get fucked for the rest of his life. In prison (literally), and when he gets out (not literally).


he is probably gonna get a slap on the wrist and let go with no jail time


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## SPH73 (Oct 1, 2010)

Joe88 said:
			
		

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No, he'll do jail time. And so will the c*** who helped him with this twisted plan. Seriously, why the fuck would they care about a gay guy having sex? Think about it. Obviously the suspect and his partner in crime are both f***ed in the head. So the guy's roomate was gay. So f***ing what? They've never seen a gay guy before? Where the f*** have these a'holes been living? Iran? (that last bit is a joke.)

Seriously though, karma is great and terrible. As they say, karma is a bitch. I'm certain both of these assholes will pay a massive karmic price.

Also, I blame reality shows and places like 4chan for all the internet bullying and for helping to strip people of their humanity.


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## DS1 (Oct 1, 2010)

SPH73 said:
			
		

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Why indeed! It'd be nice to know what the hell they were thinking, but we never will. I imagine their lawyers will have them tell a very vague story on the stand, and the rest will be fought by lawyers shooting legalese at each other. The only thing interesting about this case is how they'll use twitter as evidence.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 1, 2010)

I really do feel for the guy, being broadcasted all over the internet, being ousted because he was gay, I really do, and those involved must pay.

BUT...suicide is never the answer to anything. Weaksuace.


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## Ritsuki (Oct 1, 2010)

Wow. I think I've a friend in this school... Anyway, I think like TwinRetro that suicide is not a solution. For me it's just another way to flee the real problems. An "easy" and selfish way.


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## awssk8er (Oct 1, 2010)

0ddity said:
			
		

> This isn't the only story like this. Also in the last few days, a 13 year old in Texas shot himself in the head in his closet because he was bullied for being gay. Another 13 year old hung himself in California in his backyard



Exactly. This stuff happens all the time. I don't get why there is such a big deal about the kid from Rutgers.

My brother is going to Rutgers next semester, and a ton of people from my work go there, so everyone has been talking about how sad it is. 

It is sad, don't get me wrong, but I don't see why everyone is overreacting about this.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 1, 2010)

There are hundreds, if not thousands of people that are bullied every day for being bi or gay,  and holds their head up and keeps rolling.

These are the people that should be in the news.


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## turbotronic (Oct 1, 2010)

f*ck off homophobia
f*ck off sexism
f*ck off racism


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## Infinite Zero (Oct 2, 2010)

This is horrible. I never liked homosexuality but this is horrible...


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## turbotronic (Oct 2, 2010)

Infinite Zero said:
			
		

> This is horrible. I never liked homosexuality but this is horrible...



you dont have to like it, you have to accept it.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 2, 2010)

turbotronic said:
			
		

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No one has to accept anything, and to demand it is pure arrogance. 

Tolerance is all I ask for. Anything else is a nice surprise.


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## DeliciousRice (Oct 2, 2010)

I know the two kids actually, I am going to the same high school they went to before attending college. 
Here's my take on the topic (It's a bit long, hence the spoilers)



Spoiler



Last year, as a freshman, I spent some time sitting with a group of seniors, so I know who the roommate is personally. He honestly was a pretty cool guy, and I sincerely doubt any of his fatal actions were intentional. While he did make a huge ass blunder that cost the life of another human being, I still think it's important that people understand he is a human being like the rest of us, and like all people he has his flaws. Just like a normal person, he is entirely capable of making very stupid mistakes. But I don't think it is at all necessary to impose harsh punishment on someone just because of their lack of foresight. I'm sure all of us have done foolish things in our lifetime that we regret, but should we lose all that we have lived up for just because of the mistake? Dharun and Molly are just like that. They spent the last twelve years of their life living an honest life towards college. Contrary to how the media treats them, they have family and siblings who care for their them much more than they care for themselves. They're not stupid kids either. They both are hard workers who earned they're right as American citizens into a university to expand they're educations. By putting them in prison for five long years, not only will they lose their academic privileges, but they'll also lose their opportunities for helping the world. If you ask me, in today's society, forcing our capable young thinkers into a dark, lonely prison is counterproductive. Every bright mind is significant in a world like ours that simply needs innovation.     

Based on the messages mentioned in the article it sounds like the entire thing was intended as a joke - a pretty bad and unthoughtful one admittedly - but still a joke for the people on his friend's list on a live cast. It just so happens that the joke got out a little out of hand and circulated around campus, causing a huge big fuss and finally the suicide. In my honest opinion, Tyler Clementi overreacted. There are many other solutions to his problem besides suicide, but instead he had to use the dreaded final option. Because of these multiple blunders on the part of these three students, we are on the road to losing three units of our most important natural resource of all - human minds. The genes of evolution created these three bright young minds, but the harsh fist of fate is making us have them fall from our grasp. We already lost one of these minds, but punishing the other two to the point in which they can't contribute for the world is just the same as killing them. Accidentally causing a suicide could be considered heartless, but forcing two people to a life of pain and ridicule is just as harsh. And for all of the media corporations calling them homophobes, I know that's not what they are. Admittedly, many times in my own life I attempted doing stupid things for the sake of providing humorous situations for my peers that I eventually regretted. I imagine this must be the same for them, and even if I'm wrong I highly doubt this was an act of hatred towards a particular group. News corporations have been known to blow things out of proportion. Remember swine flu? I almost certain this must be a similar situation.


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## monkat (Oct 2, 2010)

(Before I say anything, read this disclaimer: I do not in any way support the death of the kid, I support homosexual "rights" [isn't marriage a privilege, regardless? Either way - equality is awesome], and privacy is important)

These people do not deserve jail time. It was an ill-thought-out joke that ended in tragedy. They did not willfully force the kid into suicide, they did not mock the kid, they just let people access the already running webcam.

They obviously feel horrible about the entire situation, and putting them in jail will only serve to cause controversy, harden them to hate people in general (numbing them from further homicide), and the kid will still be dead.


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

> (...), they just let people access the already running webcam.



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Well... Hello? That's something you don't do. It's crime. It's as simply as that. 

If they thought that's funny, then they can laugh in jail. It's their own fault.


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## monkat (Oct 2, 2010)

DarthTheufel said:
			
		

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It is a crime to provide a link to a stream on a camera that the person on the other side must have known was there?


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

> It is a crime to provide a link to a stream on a camera that the person on the other side must have known was there?



Obviously Tyler Clementi did not know. He killed himself, you know?


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## Coto (Oct 2, 2010)

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Agree with you Darth and disagree with monkat.

That action was full of evil and hate, cruelty that would eventually lead to this guy to commit suicide.

T-h-i-s i-s s-o-m-e-t-h-i-n-g-T-H-E-Y-W-I-L-L-R-E-G-R-E-T-F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

It doesn´t matter if suicide is or isn´t a way of finding the exit door, what DOES MATTER, IS: A JOKE LIKE THIS, WILL BE PUNISHED, AND WHEN THEY´RE FREE, THEY´LL CARRY THEIR JOKE FOREVER, until they are oldier, and die.

Yes, I do not support bullying in any form, but this escapes from bullying also, this is a crime.

RECORDING OF A LIVE VIDEO OF A GUY HAVING SEX WITOUT HIS PERMISSION, BEING A CHILD, AND EVEN BEING HOMOSEXUAL ... it really can´t fit in my mind.

Those bastards will suffer, I approve that.


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## DeMoN (Oct 2, 2010)

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They're gonna get charged with a hate crime, and if they get convicted it's jail time for sure. 
And yes, it is ironic that the homophobes who killed this kid will get ass-raped in prison, but I can say it's not unwarranted.


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## Infinite Zero (Oct 2, 2010)

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I still treat homos nicely. You can't force me to accept this like you wouldn't also want to hate it just like I do.


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## Kutxiii (Oct 2, 2010)

Poor guy  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm not against gays!!  People can do what they want with their body!


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

There's a facebook memorial group for *Tyler Clementi*







78'500 supporters right now.


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## DSGamer64 (Oct 2, 2010)

TDWP FTW said:
			
		

> My friend posted about it on Facebook, and I was just appalled.  People think it's so funny to ridicule and kill someone on the inside, until they actually do kill themselves.  It's even worse how he put it out there to anyone who wanted to see it.  Five years in prison?  Make it more.


Yeah, 5 years isn't enough for that kind of stuff. Then again, I am of the opinion that most prison sentences regardless of the crime are not near long enough for what some people go through. I mean, the kid wanted some privacy, and obviously his roommate did not seem to respect that, I'd say he should get 8 years in prison and his accomplice that was also involved should get 5. It's pretty clear that it was the roommate who violated the guys so he should get the heavier sentence for prison time for being the perpetrator.

There isn't enough justice in the world for hate crimes, or any other kind of crime for that matter.


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## KingVamp (Oct 2, 2010)

For the straight people (like me) imagine if someone invade your privacy and recorded you and put it over the internet without your consent. 

Of course they should have some jail time.

The fact the guy kill himself should they get more time? idk


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## DeMoN (Oct 2, 2010)

The fact that it led to a suicide could potentially mean that the two students will be charged with murder.  Maybe executed, but that's wishful thinking.


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## Scott-105 (Oct 2, 2010)

That's horrible! That's 10x worse than bullying. Some people just make me sick!

EDIT: No, make that 1000x worse.


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## Schizoanalysis (Oct 2, 2010)

I think the punishment should fit the crime.

I say the two idiots who did this should have hidden cameras on them for the rest of their lives, and the most embarrassing stuff (shitting/sex/wanking/being drunk/etc) should be broadcast over the internet, to all their friends and family. For the rest of their lives... Until they kill themselves.


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## VashTS (Oct 2, 2010)

if you can't handle life, and take the cowards way out of suicide, then whatever.  i don't care what the circumstance is.  

fragile minds get darwin'd out.  point blank.

i don't condone what they did, but this kid could have gotten over it.  we got drunk a couple weeks ago and a couple of me and the dudes wound up in womens clothing and it was filmed and photographed.  im not worried about it.  its funny and if you can't laugh at yourself then do what you gotta do.  i won't feel sorry for you. 

sorry to be blunt, flame all you wish, this will probably get deleted, but this is not a news story...its just another loser that couldn't win at life.


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## Schizoanalysis (Oct 2, 2010)

VashTS said:
			
		

> a couple of me and the dudes wound up in womens clothing and it was filmed and photographed.




That's not the same thing at all.



You were in public, I presume / This was behind closed doors, in private.

You were costumed or clothed / He was nude

You were performing for others / He was having sex


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

VashTS said:
			
		

> fragile minds get darwin'd out.  point blank.



People are different. Tyler obviously was a shy musician and violinist.

So, shy 18-year-old guys can't have any privacy in their bedroom?


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## KingVamp (Oct 2, 2010)

DarthTheufel said:
			
		

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and apparently darwin'd out?(die) because of shyness?


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## Schizoanalysis (Oct 2, 2010)

Anyone who would do this is a psychopath.


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## DSGamer64 (Oct 2, 2010)

VashTS said:
			
		

> if you can't handle life, and take the cowards way out of suicide, then whatever.  i don't care what the circumstance is.
> 
> fragile minds get darwin'd out.  point blank.
> 
> ...


Do you honestly know what goes on in the minds of people who are suicidal? Ever dealt with it personally, had a friend commit suicide or had thoughts of doing it? It's not cowardly if you had any concept of what people have to deal with on a daily basis that want to commit suicide. When I was a kid there was a point in my life, over a 4 year span where I did not want to exist at times. I dealt with a lot of harassment in my childhood from bullies and the fact that I had very few friends. Aside from a couple of close friends, I tried to keep myself away from those who didn't like me which was hard to do. No one understood what I was feeling, no one cared about the fact that I was being harassed at school and I wanted to kill myself because even my parents wouldn't do shit all to help me. I had a temper problem as well because of it and lashed out at people who insulted me for whatever reason, I still don't get to this day why it ever happened. 

But there were times when I wanted to end it all and save myself from the suffering of a miserable life because no one cared. I didn't do it though, because one day I finally decided to stand up for myself and cleaned the clock of one kid at school so badly he started crying like a baby, thank god it was the end of the school year when it happened, they sent me home for the rest of the day and I went back the next day with a grin on my face for my grade 8 graduation. I stood up for myself that day and said to myself that I wasn't going to put up with the bullshit anymore and when the first idiot decided to open his mouth, the next thing he saw was my fist across his face. People left me alone from that point onward, because they knew I meant business and wasn't going to tolerate being picked on, cause they knew that it would probably cost them a few teeth.

Harassment and discrimination sucks ass, I have been through it and at times I didn't want to go on, but when I decided to man up and defend myself, I was no longer the target of being bullied. Not everyone can overcome bullies and harassment though, I guess it's different when it's about your sexual orientation but my motto has been ever since to not take shit from no one and if someone wants to harm me, I will go after them with a few well placed punches.


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## DigitalDeviant (Oct 2, 2010)

A life is a life no matter the orientation.


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## cwstjdenobs (Oct 2, 2010)

From someone who has had to live through the suicide of a loved one, that person was a selfish prick who would have found any excuse to do it in the long run. And the bawwing is giving the cunt what he wanted.

Now I'm not saying the wanker who set his webcam to spy on his room mate doesn't deserve some shit, but only on the invasion of privacy shit. He's been outed as a pervert who can only hope to get a glimpse of vagoo by proxy (and he didn't even manage that). And he's got the death of someone to live with. But it will have been at most a contributing factor and not the root reason. This sounds like parents and the uni trying to get out of there responsibility of care by blaming a couple of what, 18/19 yr olds for acting like the arsehats teenagers act like anyhows.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 2, 2010)

Taking your own life is selfish no matter how you look at it. Yes, I had suicidal thoughts when I was his age, but you know what? I realized what that would do to my family and friends, and I manned the fuck up.

Life is a test. It's up to you whether you pass, or you fail. 

Even though some pretty nasty shit happened to this guy, you don't just off yourself when things get a little hairy. you fucking deal with it. 

I have sympathy for the guy for what he had to deal with. I have no sympathy for him in the fact that he snuffed himself out.


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## DS1 (Oct 2, 2010)

One thing I'd like to know: was this kid out or not? I'm guessing he might have been out to a few people, but not his roommate or family.


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## Schizoanalysis (Oct 2, 2010)

Well, he's certainly out now...


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

DS1 said:
			
		

> One thing I'd like to know: was this kid out or not? I'm guessing he might have been out to a few people, but not his roommate or family.



As far as I've read, he wasn't really out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/nyregion...ide.html?src=tp


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## taktularCBo (Oct 2, 2010)

VashTS said:
			
		

> if you can't handle life, and take the cowards way out of suicide, then whatever.  i don't care what the circumstance is.
> 
> fragile minds get darwin'd out.  point blank.
> 
> ...



you're a psycho

how can you possibly make a connection between some dudes wound up in woman clothes and someone filmed while having sex with another man?
Im sure you and your 16 years old friends got even popular among the  14 year old girls("oh this guys are cool, they don't care what society thinks and just do what is their minds...rebells..wow...yeahhh. ). 

mobbing is an serious issue, even more if the whole can be a platform for dissing you.


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## Acetic Orcein (Oct 2, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Taking your own life is selfish no matter how you look at it. Yes, I had suicidal thoughts when I was his age, but you know what? I realized what that would do to my family and friends, and I manned the fuck up.
> 
> Life is a test. It's up to you whether you pass, or you fail.
> 
> ...




Is this a serious post? I mean I don't think it's appropriate and it irritates me when people make such judgements.

For you personally, you may have the strength to overcome such issues. Other people may not possess the same amount of courage you do, or maybe they don't have the same amount of support? It's very easy for us to say suicide isn't a good option, but we're thinking rationally right? Or perhaps we're in a situation where everything is great! Can you honestly say people thrown into awful situations like this have rational thought? In his case, I think the only feelings going through his mind would be complete humiliation. Maybe the first thing he'd look for is a way to end it all? Thinking about his family was probably the last thing on his mind. It makes suicidal people sound selfish, but in many cases that isn't true. Alot of times you're consumed with so much emotion that you just lose it. 

Some people simply don't have it in them to 'man the fuck up'. So... my main point is perhaps you should think about things more deeply. I do know exactly what you're saying and I sort of agree! But for some people, their issues may run alot deeper than you think.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 2, 2010)

Interestingly enough, my physics teachers said she taught one of the girls who took part of this when she was in my school. She told us about it in Physics and what not.

It's sad, that's about all I can say.


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## VashTS (Oct 2, 2010)

i figured we'd get those [whinyvoice] "you don't know what its like maaaaaaaaannnnn" [/whinyvoice]

i've been through hell and back, as most people have.  everyone knows things happen that totally SUCK.  

when i said fragile minds get darwin'd out, i meant survival of the fittest.  its natural selection at play.  

i know the whole problem with this kid.  he was embarrassed to be gay.  and why would that be?  if its so natural...100% of the time when things are natural and feel normal, there is no reason to be ashamed.  

draw your own conclusions.


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## Overlord Nadrian (Oct 2, 2010)

Weaklings.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 2, 2010)

Um, the problem wasn't that everyone knew he was gay, it was that there was a video of him having sex with another man going around the internet to everyone he knew. If you had a video of you having sex (straight or gay) unknowingly taken and posted around the internet I doubt you'd just shake it off and not care. Sex is one of the most personal and private times you'll have with someone in their life, having that privacy broken unknowingly is a violation of many morals. 

And there's plenty of closeted gays out there that aren't ready to announce it to the world. Being forced to announce not on your terms alone is agonizing surely, but having to do it with a video of you having sex with another man is even worse.

If you were put in his situation I doubt you'd be saying that you're just weak minded for contemplating suicide or what not.


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## Infinite Zero (Oct 2, 2010)

No matter what the situation was, suicide is a no-no. Although I have sympathy for him, it was just a cowardly way of getting out of the situation.


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## Samurai Goomba (Oct 2, 2010)

Infinite Zero said:
			
		

> No matter what the situation was, suicide is a no-no. Although I have sympathy for him, it was just a cowardly way of getting out of the situation.


Cowardly? Really? Suicide is just about the bravest thing one can do.

I've personally experienced some very fragile moments in life, where the one thing stopping me from ending it all was fear.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Oct 2, 2010)

Infinite Zero said:
			
		

> No matter what the situation was, suicide is a no-no. Although I have sympathy for him, it was just a cowardly way of getting out of the situation.



What an utterly insensitive remark. Certainly, suicide could not have been his only way out of the situation. The question is why he felt compelled to do so. I'm not even sure if there's enough evidence to pronounce a judgment, but we'll never get any closer to the answer with your reactionary drivel. Suicide is never the answer, and those who choose it are cowards? Thankfully, human relations do not operate in absolutes. Your "sympathy" is as feeble as your reasoning.


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

Infinite Zero said:
			
		

> No matter what the situation was, suicide is a no-no. Although I have sympathy for him, it was just a cowardly way of getting out of the situation.



We all had enough time to think about this now. I personally have to agree with Infinte Zero at some point _now_.

Tyler Clementi always had a choice. 

He could turn off the computer, buy a ticket and go home for a week. Or two.

He didn't do that.

What happened to him was a _very_ bad thing. Something we all fear when we're ~16 years old, maybe experience sex for the first time. 

But there's no real connection to his suicide. 

And how do we know that his suicide was because he was ashamed..? I mean: This is not a Puccini opera... Maybe it was an act of infantile aggression, maybe he wanted to hurt his roommate as much as possible. We don't know that.


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## DS1 (Oct 2, 2010)

Overlord Nadrian said:
			
		

> Weaklings.



Weaklings? With all due respect, aren't you the guy who was whining about needing to go "soul searching", complained about 'retarded fucks' ruining your precious site, and left GBATemp for DS-Scene? That might have been a really strong thing to do... kind of... except you came straight back after like, 2 weeks. You're not in the greatest position to be calling out weaklings.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Oct 2, 2010)

DarthTheufel said:
			
		

> Infinite Zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It could be as simple as you think, or it could not. Regardless, your speculation does not offer any insight as to why this young man chose death over the other options you lay out. You're merely enforcing your own morals upon the situation by offering the "possibility" of choices he could have made. It's possible that Clementi was not of the opinion that he had a choice in anything. And who are you to say that there's "no real connection" to the suicide? What happened here is far more complex than your "luxury of choice" would have us believe. The decisive question is why choice was not a luxury.


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## ehayes427 (Oct 2, 2010)

send them to jail for life.

they not only illegal recorded something,

but they committed murder, in my opinion.


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't understand your last sentence "The decisive question is why choice was not a luxury" - could you explain what you mean with that?


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## DS1 (Oct 2, 2010)

DarthTheufel said:
			
		

> I don't understand your last sentence "The decisive question is why choice was not a luxury" - could you explain what you mean with that?



I think the "decisive question" is "why did he kill himself?", something we'll probably never know (as is the case in many suicides).


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## ZPE (Oct 2, 2010)

johncenafan427 said:
			
		

> send them to jail for life.
> 
> they not only illegal recorded something,
> 
> but they committed murder, in my opinion.



Hardly murder, more like manslaughter but that's stretching it. Even if it was straight sex recording, it's just as bad.


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## ehayes427 (Oct 2, 2010)

ZPE said:
			
		

> johncenafan427 said:
> 
> 
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but i mean, because of some bastard,
an innocent person died.

as in, IT'S THEIR FAULT.


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## ZPE (Oct 2, 2010)

johncenafan427 said:
			
		

> but i mean, because of some bastard,
> an innocent person died.
> 
> as in, IT'S THEIR FAULT.



That in itself is not actually for dead-cert, we'll leave it to the jury to decide as always. My guess, probably will be sentenced to prison but not for life.


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## ehayes427 (Oct 2, 2010)

ZPE said:
			
		

> johncenafan427 said:
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yeah they probably won't,
but they should.


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## B-Blue (Oct 2, 2010)

DS1 said:
			
		

> Overlord Nadrian said:
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> 
> 
> ...



Nathan? leaving for DS-Scene?
He must have been trolling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





@Nathan:


Spoiler


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Oct 2, 2010)

DarthTheufel said:
			
		

> I don't understand your last sentence "The decisive question is why choice was not a luxury" - could you explain what you mean with that?



Certainly. Or at least, I'll give it a shot.

Historical developments, while they seemingly proceed on a single, unforgiving thread, are not inevitable. Hitler's rise to state power was not predetermined, but made to happen due to a number of material and circumstantial factors. The same goes with even the American Civil War; it will be remembered that the North won out, despite the South seizing more military victories. Briefly, I will detail the possibility of how these developments were forced. Hitler was never actually elected by the German people, but the key to the state was given to him by the former rulers themselves. The South's possibility of victory was dashed by the decentralization of their government, and scant supplies due to the Northern blockade.

In both of these examples, historical development was forced by a factor that the "winner," or "loser," could not directly control. Such is the zeitgeist of life's uncertainty at this time. I propose that it was the same for Mr. Clementi. While events might have driven him from suicide, he was driven towards it instead. What then, forced Mr. Clementi's hand? Was it the rapid succession of events that overwhelmed him? Or if it wasn't, what was it that pushed him over the edge into taking his own life? I'm not convinced we have anything close to answering that yet. Assuming that he did it as an act of "infantile aggression" or to hurt his roommate as much as possible assumes that if he had a means of resistance, it was selfish or malicious. 

Hopefully, I wish to present the possibility that while Clementi wrote, illustrated, and ultimately ended his own story, he did not do it as he pleased, even less so alone. As I said before, he did not have the luxury of choice, so why was his choice was without luxury?

Edits 1 & 2: Last sentence was unclear.


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## Clookster (Oct 2, 2010)

OK, MEGAMANTROTSKY - Thanks a lot for your explanation. As you have noticed already, english is not my first languange, I simply can't respond to that in english. But I'm aware of what you're saying and thankful for sharing your thoughts on that.

But one thing that's important for me to tell is: Someone who commits suicide isn't just simply the "victim" or "the good guy", just because he did that. I lost a close person because of suicide, and I just wanted to share that thought.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 2, 2010)

Suicide is the bravest thing you can do? Really? Because I don't see it very brave to leave all of your problems behind, along with a wake of sadness and despair for your friends and family. Suicide is and always will be a selfish act.


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## Deleted User (Oct 2, 2010)

True, but what would you do if it happened to you?


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 2, 2010)

jet™ said:
			
		

> True, but what would you do if it happened to you?



Much worse has happened to me, but I don't care to explain the details. My point is, that my life was ruined, and shall continue to be ruined for the rest of my natural life, and yes I had bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts, but the only thing that kept me from acting on them was the wake of destruction I would leave after my death.


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## Deleted User (Oct 2, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> jet™ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's true... I really can't think of anything to say.


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## Zerosuit connor (Oct 2, 2010)

Depravo said:
			
		

> 0ddity said:
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> 
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Honestly if these guys were supposed to be his friends and did it behind his back and he didnt know i mean i'd have been humilianted but this is disgusting the guys should be punished and then live with the guilt for the rest of their lives.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Oct 2, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Suicide is the bravest thing you can do? Really? Because I don't see it very brave to leave all of your problems behind, along with a wake of sadness and despair for your friends and family. Suicide is and always will be a selfish act.
> 
> Perhaps you weren't referring to my own remarks on the matter, but I do not remember making any such suggestions, and I can't remember anyone else saying so, either. The question isn't whether suicide is a "brave", noble or selfish act. The question is what ultimately caused the deceased to take his own life. As for your opinion regarding that suicide "is and always will" be a selfish act, it only demonstrates that your vision refuses to go any farther than that of a blind man's contact lenses. You cannot say for certain that a type of death only has one social or moral connotation, nor do you present any reason for your opinion, other than how it applies to yourself. Such reasoning is not good enough.
> 
> ...



I understand your concern and I am sorry that you have been personally affected by something like this. Of course, suicide does not necessarily mean that the deceased is either victim or oppressor. My only point is that we are not yet in a position to understand this incident as intimately as you may understand your friend's.


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## omgpwn666 (Oct 2, 2010)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're to "intelligent" for me to understand, so I'll just say this. Suicide is wrong, and it's a wimps way out. It may seem harsh to say that about someone who has passed, but it's true. No one should ever have suicidal thoughts, and if you are having those thoughts, don't act on them. All you have to do is wait it out, see someone, or talk to anyone that could relate to what happened. Maybe the guy that didn't kill himself that he was having relations with? The guys who recorded him did some pretty messed up stuff, but he did not intend for the guy to kill himself. I know I'm right, I've done some mean things to people when I was younger, and now regret it, I made them mad or sad. I never said to myself, "Watch this guy kill himself because I'm bullying him! Hahaha".


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Oct 2, 2010)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
> 
> 
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> ...



Thank for you for the compliment on my "intelligence", although it seems clear that your comment is anything but. I might as well repeat exactly what I said before. 

When you have suicidal thoughts or something similar, you simply don't act on them. Simple, unforgiving, clean, and very stunted. How pleasant, I smell a nomination for your recent publication of "Chicken Soup for Fools" (I took the liberty to posthumously title your last post) on the GBAtemp forums! It's nice that you feel bad for people you have bullied when you were younger, though. It almost distracts me from the unsupported, harsh (one could almost say bullying) judgment you just passed on a dead college student, whose exact circumstances we have yet to realize or appreciate. This includes the possibility of the deceased seeing someone, or for him to "wait it out". Your flawed reasoning here is, in my opinion, the real "wimps way out".

Also, I never said that the one who recorded him intended for Clementi to die. Proving such intent would be very difficult indeed, and I don't envy the jury that may be asked to do so. I haven't passed any sort of judgment on the perpetrators of the recording prank, nor will I do so in the near future, unless more information comes to light. Until then, you might trouble yourself with what I actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.


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## omgpwn666 (Oct 2, 2010)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> omgpwn666 said:
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Ouch, insults. That was directed at past posters who said that the criminals who recorded this should go to prison for longer than they got, or for a life time. Your post could have been worth while reading if you did not try to take the low road. Now you look like you're trying to be something you're not. Nice attempt though. I'll say it again though, suicide is the wimps way out. Nothing you can say will change my mind, but that's because I know people who have committed suicide before, I'm supposed to feel bad for people that harm themselves? It's what they wanted, death.


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## injected11 (Oct 2, 2010)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> Nothing you can say will change my mind, but that's because I know people who have committed suicide before, I'm supposed to feel bad for people that harm themselves? It's what they wanted, death.


They most likely wanted an escape, help, or someone to understand what they felt. Help them before they get to that point, douche.


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## Overlord Nadrian (Oct 2, 2010)

Samurai Goomba said:
			
		

> Cowardly? Really? Suicide is just about the bravest thing one can do.Sure, leaving everyone who actually cares about you behind just like that, and in the process only thinking of yourself and your problems, seems very brave to me.
> 
> Except not. It takes balls to commit suicide, but it takes many more balls, both your own and/or those of others, to actually stay alive and _change_ the current situation. If they can't take whatever the world hurls at them, they do not deserve to even exist in the first place.
> 
> QUOTE(DS1 @ Oct 2 2010, 05:22 PM) Weaklings? With all due respect, aren't you the guy who was whining about needing to go "soul searching", complained about 'retarded fucks' ruining your precious site, and left GBATemp for DS-Scene? That might have been a really strong thing to do... kind of... except you came straight back after like, 2 weeks. You're not in the greatest position to be calling out weaklings.


Soul searching was done pretty quickly and I now have a girlfriend. DS-Scene was cool when it was still active, unlike now where only regulars hover around a bit, something I forgot to think about. And you can hardly say I 'came back'. I used to be on here pretty much 24/7, whereas nowadays I just quickly look through the current discussions and post if need be.

@B-Blue:



Spoiler


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## heavyknight (Oct 2, 2010)

injected11 said:
			
		

> omgpwn666 said:
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> 
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Because of people being narrow-minded like that, that people kill themselves.

Troubled teen + internet = things like this. What happens on the internet, doesn't stay on the internet. Cyber-bullying, for example.

When you have no friends, or all your "friends" are online people, there's not much you can do in terms of options/choices. All those people can do is offer advice. Otherwise, it's up to the people around you, like family. If you have problems, they should be aware and think of something to help. But no. People are too damn selfish nowadays. Now, it's usually that people around them = the problem.

Drugs, drinking, suicide, murder. Something's gotta' happen. This was just one of the few options he could *easily* do.

Don't forget that there are health conditions that easily affect people, emotionally and mentally. Maybe he was developing something, who knows.

"but the only thing that kept me from acting on them was the wake of destruction I would leave after my death."
Sadly, under the 'right' conditions, that won't matter, and people end up going through with it. That is what despair is.

I don't know what's more selfish, the guy's suicide, or the people bagging on him for suiciding. 
See wut I did thar? Sheds a bit more light on a few reasons as to why people do it.


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## omgpwn666 (Oct 2, 2010)

injected11 said:
			
		

> omgpwn666 said:
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This made me laugh, since it's so true. But that's not who I am. I usually tell people who tell me they're gonna kill themselves to just do it, since most of them say stuff for attention. If you're gonna commit suicide you don't usually tell everyone. So, their was nothing I can do because the people I know who would suicide did not share that they wanted to suicide.


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## Schizoanalysis (Oct 3, 2010)

Overlord Nadrian said:
			
		

> And you can hardly say I 'came back'. I used to be on here pretty much 24/7, whereas nowadays I just quickly look through the current discussions and post if need be.



Nice logic.

You can have your cake and eat it too; or rather, you can still maintain that you have left GBAtemp, all the while continuing to post here...


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## FencingFoxFTW (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't think there was homophobia involved(which is a bullshit term anyway, invented to criminalize people who don't agree with gay propaganda)

I actually think they made it for the lulz, like "hay c I filmz roommates doing buttsecks lol"

and about suicide not being an option, or about how the "he overreacted", well, that's bullshit too
you don't know how you are going to react when you are depressed(unless you are depressed all the time)


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## luckwii (Oct 3, 2010)

1st off, trying to say the US is a homophobic country is pure BS. In fact nowadays straight people are more persecuted than gays. Case in point, all the people who wish more severe consequences for the "homophobe"  defendants. If the case were not a "gay" issue, and say they filmed him wankin it by himself, I doubt the same people would want the same over the top punishment. Or how about the fact that people here voted against gay marriage, and their right to vote is being taken away? If a bunch of straight guys beat up a gay guy it is prosecuted as a hate crime. If a bunch of gays beat up a straight guy it is not a hate crime. 

If you want to be anti gay, you have a right to your own opinion. Shame on those of you politically correct people that don't tolerate others opinions. IMO you PC people are the haters, and the suppressors. You liberals aren't liberals anymore. Liberals are supposed to "not agree with what you say but defend your right to say it". In fact the most racist, sexist, intolerant people I know are liberals. They talk as though they are into equality, but their actions are the farthest thing from it.

I am not anti gay or against gay marriage, and would rather have people have more rights, not less. So don't get me wrong on which side of the debate I am on with the gay issue.

Back to the post...

Charging the people that made the film and released it for the invasion of privacy I can see. Charging them with the suicide, I can't see. The victim's struggle with being gay had a lifetime of experiences behind his suicide, I am sure. To charge only the last people to bring him over the edge doesn't make sense to me. Think of all the other people in his life that must have contributed. If he was not "out" yet, I would assume his parents did not know he was gay. IMO his parents not being okay with it could have been as much or more of a contributing factor. Could it be that the video wasn't the deciding factor, but more the fact that the people close to him would now know, and he couldn't deal with their future reaction? Think about it. As a college guy, if a video surfaced of him banging a famous, hella hot actress or supermodel, I am sure he would be the hero on campus. But because it was a gay humiliation in his eyes, it is not much of a stretch to think his family and friends would be the ones he would be afraid of. 

Think of Richard Simmons. If a gay video of him surfaced, do you think he would kill himself? I don't. He is out and comfortable with it. He may be embarrased that someone filmed him in the act, but I think it is safe to say he wouldn't worry that people would find out he is gay.


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## DSGamer64 (Oct 4, 2010)

luckwii said:
			
		

> 1st off, trying to say the US is a homophobic country is pure BS. In fact nowadays straight people are more persecuted than gays. Case in point, all the people who wish more severe consequences for the "homophobe"  defendants. If the case were not a "gay" issue, and say they filmed him wankin it by himself, I doubt the same people would want the same over the top punishment. Or how about the fact that people here voted against gay marriage, and their right to vote is being taken away? If a bunch of straight guys beat up a gay guy it is prosecuted as a hate crime. If a bunch of gays beat up a straight guy it is not a hate crime.



Ironic since homosexuals are not protected by the US Constitution. That and the fact that many members of the Republican Party have been openly against anything related to same sex couples and homosexuals in general, for a good 20+ years.


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## RoMee (Oct 4, 2010)

Gays getting married, being in the army, etc, does not effect me in any way
I don't know why, people are making it seem like it's a crime to be gay.

I think most of the hate are coming from the religious community..with no real reason for persecuting gays, other than what's written in the bible


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## luckwii (Oct 4, 2010)

The last two posts illustrate my point exactly. The liberal side is trying to use the government to mandate that people change their beliefs religous or not. So far the voting majority in the US is against gay marriage. The left is trying to use force against the religous (Judeo-Christian) beliefs. What happend to freedom and religion? It is funny that Judeo-Christians are under attack, yet the much worse persecution by the Muslim community is not under attack. You know what they do to gays? Why is the US the bad guy in liberals eyes? Of any country we are the most tolerant and have done the most in the world for equality. Where are the protests by the liberals in Muslim countries?

I think the biggest issue the religous/Republican side has is not necessarily fueled by anti gay, but rather the viscious attack by the left on their right to their beliefs. The gays are unfortunately trapped in the middle now as the marriage issue has become a political battle front. You want to change the balance of opinion in the US on gay marriage, do it by debate and education, not political/judicial mandate. This is where the left has gone so dangerously off course with their agenda. They are trampling rights, growing government, and forcing opinion absolutely contrary to the intent of the Constitution. The danger here is that with voting rights being taken, and government's ability to do what they want, when they want can go both ways. What happens if all this new governmental power issued to liberal/Democrats is then used by some extreme groups later in US history? What if a anti gay, anti human rights groups are in power, and that mandate can be used without vote to illegalize minority races and any kind of gay opinon or freedom? That is why you can't set US policy by what makes you "feel good". You have to use fairness and actual logical thought to try and figure out the implications of what you do. This is where the Republican/conservatives are mistaken for being cold or heartless. No, we actually think things through. And again, I would like to repeat that I am on the side of legalizing gay marriage, so that my view isn't mistaken on the issue. Legalized by voting majority, not liberal mandate.


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## injected11 (Oct 4, 2010)

luckwii said:
			
		

> Of any country we are the most tolerant and have done the most in the world for equality. Where are the protests by the liberals in Muslim countries?
> *Seriously, the fuck are you talking about? There are dozens of 3rd world counteries that allow same sex unions. Canada and Mexico do as well. What the hell has the US done for equality outside its own borders aside from demolishing an infrastructure or 2 and walking away?*
> 
> Legalized by voting majority, not liberal mandate.
> *When the voting majority wants to violate rights clearly granted right in the constitution, their opinions need to be overruled.*


I don't give a damn about the "beliefs of the right". Separation of church and state even says I shouldn't have to give a damn. When they are openly oppressing a large group of the American people, they need to either be ignored or removed from power. People act like giving gays the rights they deserve means that they will be forced to allow gays to [censored] them on a nightly basis.


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## Pliskron (Oct 4, 2010)

This has to be the dumbest thread/news story ever. I could care less about gays. Yea they have problems like the rest of us. I don't see how that rises to the level of world news. I saw someone clubed and left for dead in the street but it didn't make it on the BBC because the guy wasn't gay.  In regaurd to the other posts TLDR


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## Clookster (Oct 4, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> I saw someone clubed and left for dead in the street but it didn't make it on the BBC because the guy wasn't gay.



Yeah. Gays are really annoying. They die and get on the news with that.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 4, 2010)

Samurai Goomba said:
			
		

> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm Canadian, Bitch!


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## Veho (Oct 4, 2010)

luckwii said:
			
		

> What happend to freedom and religion?


What happened to freedom _from_ religion?


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## Pliskron (Oct 4, 2010)

DarthTheufel said:
			
		

> Pliskron said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know it. I guess if you want justice these days you have to go down on a dude first. But seriously, important stories arn't being covered.


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## The Catboy (Oct 4, 2010)

This is just awful. I really can't believe people can be this horrible to other people, yet at the same time I know this way too well.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 4, 2010)

Veho said:
			
		

> luckwii said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HUH?Do you live in China or North Africa? How about Pakistan or Burma? If you do not, then you have freedom from religion. Stop asking retarded questions.


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## Depravo (Oct 4, 2010)

So much bigotry in this thread. I blame the parents.


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## nugundam0079 (Oct 4, 2010)

I admit that these things done to these individuals is unacceptable but at the same time killing yourself out of fear and embarrassment? come on! nothing defeats bullying better than showing them that your LIVING your life regardless of what people say or do to you. Happiness is the best revenge,these kids only proved how ashamed of who they were and only left pain in their wake which is in turn unacceptable.

both sides are wrong.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 4, 2010)

RoMee said:
			
		

> Gays getting married, being in the army, etc, does not effect me in any way
> I don't know why, people are making it seem like it's a crime to be gay.
> 
> I think most of the hate are coming from the religious community..with no real reason for persecuting gays, other than what's written in the bible



RE-PHRASE

The Bible does not say to hate gays. Try reading it sometime. It just disapproves of Same-Sex marriage and Sodomy. The hate is coming from the RETARDED RIGHT WING ASSHOLES who think they're HOT SHIT. Basically, the hate is coming from the people not the Bible. "Don't hate the Game, hate the players"


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## Prophet6000 (Oct 4, 2010)

Why is this big news anyway this type of thing happens all the time. People should blaming others he killed Himself he wasn't murdered.


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## nugundam0079 (Oct 4, 2010)

I have a few gay friends and to be honest I love everyone-but the one thing I was never able to agree with is the gay community calling for civil rights. civil rights were fought for by many people to fight the injustice of things like racism and bigotry. Asians,Whites,Blacks, Catholics etc all came under attack for reasons that are beyond their control  like skin color(I cant change the color of my skin,if if i could I wouldn't) and civil rights were fought for and even some died for it. I feel that the gay community undermines the efforts that were put into effect by generations of people (and which is still ongoing). I dont know if this makes sense to anybody....


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## Veho (Oct 4, 2010)

salamai said:
			
		

> HUH?Do you live in China or North Africa? How about Pakistan or Burma? If you do not, then you have freedom from religion. Stop asking retarded questions.


No country where religious beliefs dictate state laws (and thus force rules of a particular religion onto people who aren't members of said religion) has freedom from religion. It's a legitimate question. Stop giving retarded answers.


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## nugundam0079 (Oct 4, 2010)

luckwii said:
			
		

> The last two posts illustrate my point exactly. The liberal side is trying to use the government to mandate that people change their beliefs religous or not. So far the voting majority in the US is against gay marriage. The left is trying to use force against the religous (Judeo-Christian) beliefs. What happend to freedom and religion? It is funny that Judeo-Christians are under attack, yet the much worse persecution by the Muslim community is not under attack. You know what they do to gays? Why is the US the bad guy in liberals eyes? Of any country we are the most tolerant and have done the most in the world for equality. Where are the protests by the liberals in Muslim countries?
> 
> I think the biggest issue the religous/Republican side has is not necessarily fueled by anti gay, but rather the viscious attack by the left on their right to their beliefs. The gays are unfortunately trapped in the middle now as the marriage issue has become a political battle front. You want to change the balance of opinion in the US on gay marriage, do it by debate and education, not political/judicial mandate. This is where the left has gone so dangerously off course with their agenda. They are trampling rights, growing government, and forcing opinion absolutely contrary to the intent of the Constitution. The danger here is that with voting rights being taken, and government's ability to do what they want, when they want can go both ways. What happens if all this new governmental power issued to liberal/Democrats is then used by some extreme groups later in US history? What if a anti gay, anti human rights groups are in power, and that mandate can be used without vote to illegalize minority races and any kind of gay opinon or freedom? That is why you can't set US policy by what makes you "feel good". You have to use fairness and actual logical thought to try and figure out the implications of what you do. This is where the Republican/conservatives are mistaken for being cold or heartless. No, we actually think things through. And again, I would like to repeat that I am on the side of legalizing gay marriage, so that my view isn't mistaken on the issue. Legalized by voting majority, not liberal mandate.



Please dont try and make republicans/right wing people into Angels, you know damn well that they're as guilty for messing things up as the left so please DROP the victim act.

Quote from a republican friend "The only reason that obama got into office is for the simple fact that all the black people voted for him"


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## Maz7006 (Oct 4, 2010)

surprised this thread is still going 

wont even bother posting what i truly think; dnt wanna get quoted or called a homophobe 

i see it this way: many ppl find it offensive that others dnt appreciate their gayness so to say; but its just the same for those  who aren't, they find it offensive that the whole gay thing exiists in the first place. 

its a ruthless cycle; and kind of self contradictory, i dnt see any kind of compromise in such a situation other than to let it just be.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 4, 2010)

Veho said:
			
		

> salamai said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like what for example?


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## Veho (Oct 4, 2010)

salamai said:
			
		

> Like what for example?


Like "if you don't live in Burma you have freedom from religion".


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 4, 2010)

Maz7006 said:
			
		

> its a ruthless cycle; and kind of self contradictory, i dnt see any kind of compromise in such a situation other than to let it just be.
> 
> You just got quoted.
> 
> ...




Ummm....

What's with all the hate against religion? What did it ever do to you?

EDIT: Sorry for Double posting.


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## cwstjdenobs (Oct 4, 2010)

salamai said:
			
		

> RoMee said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well according to Deuteronomy, which Christians are only meant to take seriously when the new testament implicitly agrees. It's amazing how many bigoted christians don't know the New Covenant, or do they just ignore it when the torah fits their personal views better? And Jesus never said anything either way on the subject.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 4, 2010)

the old testament also says that it is a sin to wear clothing of mixed material, so take that as you will.


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## Veho (Oct 4, 2010)

salamai said:
			
		

> What's with all the hate against religion?


There isn't any. Stop trying to change the subject.


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## Bunie (Oct 4, 2010)

@Everyone

Why cant we just love one-another? you should never harm anyone who hasn't harmed you, that makes you the villain.


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## sweenish (Oct 4, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> the old testament also says that it is a sin to wear clothing of mixed material, so take that as you will.



this argument is moot. he had already said that the old testament (deuteronomy in particular, but it applies to all scriptures regarding the old law) is only to be taken seriously when the new testament agrees with it. 

any kind of bible knowledge would have stopped you from making that post. since that kind of archaic requirement obviously falls under the old law.

it goes like this:
higher law from adam to moses
jews too wicked to live by higher law, given law of sacrifice (where all the people like you enjoy pulling out verses to try and demonstrate how outmoded the bible is)
jesus is the ultimate sacrifice, fulfilling the old law, and re-instating the higher law.

what that means, is the old law is not be lived any more. it's worth keeping for study, because EVERYTHING in the old testament is a symbol of christ. when people quote the old laws to show how ignorant christians must be, they do nothing but demonstrate their own.

i'm not saying that there aren't a lot of ignorant, hateful christians out there, because there are. but that type of argument does no one any kind of good.


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## Pliskron (Oct 4, 2010)

You can tell no good releases this week if we're talking about dudes having sex.


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## nugundam0079 (Oct 4, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> You can tell no good releases this week if we're talking about dudes having sex.



Not so fast krunkenstien! we have Final Fantasy:The 4 heroes of Light this week!


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## TrolleyDave (Oct 4, 2010)

luckwii said:
			
		

> It is funny that Judeo-Christians are under attack, yet the much worse persecution by the Muslim community is not under attack. You know what they do to gays? Why is the US the bad guy in liberals eyes? Of any country we are the most tolerant and have done the most in the world for equality. Where are the protests by the liberals in Muslim countries?



The difference is is that the persecution by the Muslim community happens in Islamic countries.  We are supposed to be more forward thinking, more democratic and more in tune with the pursuit of happiness.  There are protests in Islamic countries though, mostly for womens and basic human rights, but they are there.  Changing a country where laws and beliefs are dictated by the philosophies of someone claiming to speak for God, taught from a book that's supposed to be faultless and "perfect" life system is harder, takes alot more effort and takes alot longer.  It's made even harder by the fact that in most Islamic countries (Saudi and Iran for example) criticism of the Quran is illegal, and pretty damned dangerous.


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## megawalk (Oct 4, 2010)

wow... so far for the compassion, respects, etiquette, responsibility, dignity, liability, mentality, vitality, value and honourship.
that was all of this listed below:
A> A Discriminating Job
B> A Perverted Job
C> A Whacko's Job
D> A Psychosexual disturbancy
E> Disrespectful

believe me...
they'rrrrr gonna get it at prison. and i hope they get it good...


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## emigre (Oct 4, 2010)

I swear that's the fourth time I've posted that image.

On Topic: I actually have sympathy with the deceased. It sounds like he was confused about himself and the humilation he suffered would havecertainly messed with his head. It isn't murder but a very sad story.


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## Amber Lamps (Oct 4, 2010)

since when is a gaming forum about gay stuff?

I'm amazed the first reply to this is still there after the mods started censoring haha. let alone that this thread is still not locked.


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