# Analogue Super NT



## Pokepicker (Feb 8, 2018)

Hi

I recently stumbled across the Analogue Super NT.

I understand it's FPGA lets you actually run SNES and it's not just emulated.
I saw Cinnemassacres video on the topic, they mention that loading your ROMs onto a SDcard will give the same performance as a cart.

It was also mentioned that one could run other "cores" or systems on this.
Will running a NES "core" on this device work the same way as the SNES functionality? I.e, I can play my NES ROM's without horrible framedrops and slowdowns?

Sorry if there is already a Super NT post on here but I just missed it.


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## koffieleut (Feb 8, 2018)

I've watched two videos about the analogue super nt yesterday, but the SD card is only used for firmware updates atm.
Maybe there will be an open firmware hack that enables rom loading on the system just like the NT mini.


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## sTo0z (Feb 8, 2018)

Watch out, there's currently a whiny, rage-fest going on between software and hardware emulation.


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## Pokepicker (Feb 9, 2018)

@koffieleut Do you have any experience regarding performance differences between running cartridges and ROM's on the NT Mini?


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## sj33 (Feb 9, 2018)

Here's an interesting article that challenges the idea that FPGAs are necessarily more accurate than an accurate software emulator.

https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic/


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## the_randomizer (Feb 10, 2018)

sj33 said:


> Here's an interesting article that challenges the idea that FPGAs are necessarily more accurate than an accurate software emulator.
> 
> https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic/



True, there is no perfect solution, and I've been mulling over this as well, deciding if I should pick one up. But I'm at an impasse, one one hand, playing on authentic hardware has its charms, but I would likely have to get a flashcart as well. That costs a pretty penny but it sure as heck beats having to pay for and collect games which adds even upwards of several hundred dollars. Nevertheless, it would pay for itself in no time flat, having all the games I own between my real Snes collection and the Snes Classic, it would be very convenient.  Also with the Analog NT/NES the "unofficial" jailbreak option could happen with this, allowing ROM loading and not via emulation.  So I don't know if I would get the system and flashcart, or just the system and wait for a firmware update. Either way, I do see the appeal, as the Snes was my first exposure to games back in 1993 (I know, I'm old) 

I may make a thread, not sure, asking for opinions.


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## sj33 (Feb 10, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> True, there is no perfect solution, and I've been mulling over this as well, deciding if I should pick one up. But I'm at an impasse, one one hand, playing on authentic hardware has its charms, but I would likely have to get a flashcart as well. That costs a pretty penny but it sure as heck beats having to pay for and collect games which adds even upwards of several hundred dollars. Nevertheless, it would pay for itself in no time flat, having all the games I own between my real Snes collection and the Snes Classic, it would be very convenient.  Also with the Analog NT/NES the "unofficial" jailbreak option could happen with this, allowing ROM loading and not via emulation.  So I don't know if I would get the system and flashcart, or just the system and wait for a firmware update. Either way, I do see the appeal, as the Snes was my first exposure to games back in 1993 (I know, I'm old)
> 
> I may make a thread, not sure, asking for opinions.


You should read the link again. It’s still, strictly speaking, emulation. Getting a FPGA to act in a certain way is not fundamentally different than using an accurate software emulator to make a CPU do the same thing.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 10, 2018)

sj33 said:


> You should read the link again. It’s still, strictly speaking, emulation. Getting a FPGA to act in a certain way is not fundamentally different than using an accurate software emulator to make a CPU do the same thing.



Well, I suppose one could say it's "hardware" emulation as opposed to software emulation. It seems to be on par with Higan, which I like, but I'm still on the fence on whether or not to get one. I don't want the clones because Hyperkin has been stealing GPL-licensed source code and passing it off as their own. So yeah, screw those companies.

I'd rather just get a better clone than Hyperkin or RetroBit, to be blunt. Those are using Android and Snes9x 2010 as a base for their Snes emulators, so lots of speed hacks and frameskipping, etc. Higan is a bit CPU intensive for my tastes, despite having a Core i7 4770. But of course, Byuu took offense to what I said years ago about the system requirements being too high, but back then my PC wasn't that great as it is now.


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## deltax5 (Feb 10, 2018)

The thing is. A FPGA can be programed to be a snes each cheep is behaving the same as the real thing. That is the advantages of it from a emulator. A emulator does everything throu software mostly dumps everything into ram and the processes it causing the lag ( So I think).
I think it's still a emulator it just when something needs processing it can do it at a hardware level making everything more acerete. Unless it's using the exact same code as a snes then maybe. There are still flaws needing tinkering with firmware updates. Some games crash. But it's very few and the important one's work just fine.
The problem that the snes has is it runs at more then 60hz I think 60.8hz. At the setting that makes it 60.8 you will notice small taring but if you have a monitor that is more then 60hz it may be fine. But there is another setting that is set default I think that forces the game to 60hz but deletes 1 frame or something repeatably every second or less to make up the difference. There is in fact lag and stuttering but it is so fast that you won't notice at all. The framemiester has 1.5 frames of lag soppositely I notice nothing. there is a third option but don't really catch what it does.
As for loading games off the sd card. The old product that was for the nes had jailbrake firmware to add more cores and load games off sd card. It was his core's from his persanal FPGA he was working on since the early 2000's. He works on medical mecheans as a doctor his real job but now working part time to put his core into a more affordable product for the masses supported by analogue. They would never be able to sell a product that loads games off a sd card so he does it underground. Will there be a jailbrake for the super nt we only have to wait. He did say on a fourm he hasn't even started making new cores for the super nt and may take a couple of months for one core, maybe he can put his older cores on it but I dought there going put nes core into it that will kill there own system wouldn't it. Thou it's been sold out for awile. Im hoping for a pc engine,turbo graphics core only cause I don't have the system  but most lily make a genesis core first, that is if they don't decide making that a separate product. More indo about the jailbrake can be found on the atariage fourms. 
If you want it just for a snes then get it but look at every review if it's to your liking. Don't expect more cores untill he decides to add a jailbrake firmware. Most likely he will but there may be problems that forces him to not.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*chip (cheep)
There are FPGA consoles people tried to make that was worse then a emulator. Maybe cause they didn't put the right parts and the software made wasn't very good in general.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


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## GBA rocks (Feb 11, 2018)

I’m puzzled by the supposed “hdmi to analog” converter in development for crt lovers, as that would introduce lag I think...

My ideal setup would be a freshly built usb powered low power (as opposed to an old original SNES) Analogue SuperNT with direct (not D-to-A converted) component RGB output for use with Sony PVM CRTs and SD2SNES cart.

Emulators are a different world...


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## the_randomizer (Feb 11, 2018)

I went and preorded one for the heck of it, but I'm the fence on whether or not to get a flashcart (SD2SNES) or wait for the alleged jailbreak firmware. I don't want to have to swap carts out all the time, but I don't want to fork out money for a flashcart if he's gonna release the ROM loading capabilities. At the end of the day, this is still hardware emulation, albeit ridiculously accurate (Higan-levels of accurate).


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## GBA rocks (Feb 12, 2018)

Well even if it could load ROMs, it wouldn’t emulate the special chips like the SD2SNES does (except SA-1 and SuperFX), so it wouldn’t be equivalent...


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## Hanafuda (Feb 12, 2018)

GBA rocks said:


> Well even if it could load ROMs, it wouldn’t emulate the special chips like the SD2SNES does (except SA-1 and SuperFX), so it wouldn’t be equivalent...



It _might_ be possible to incorporate those expansion chips into a 'jailbreak' firmware along with SD slot access for rom reading. Why not? But nobody knows if a jailbreak's even gonna happen for Super NT, so not something to hold your breath over.


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## F34R (Feb 14, 2018)

*Jailbreak firmware released..*

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak

read the, well, readme lol.


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## Captain_N (Mar 1, 2018)

To load most of my roms, i use a super wild card dx2 that loads roms of a zip 100 drive.....
If someone wanted to be accurate reproducing a snes then they need to use little vlsi and make the snes cpu from scratch and have the chip fabricated. 
I find if interesting that people argue about the accuracy of the software/hardware emulation. They could just, gee i dont know buy a Real snes. They are 100% accurate. and the cost is the same as these hardware ones emulated ones...... I dont get whats so hard about using a real snes...


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## F34R (Mar 2, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> To load most of my roms, i use a super wild card dx2 that loads roms of a zip 100 drive.....
> If someone wanted to be accurate reproducing a snes then they need to use little vlsi and make the snes cpu from scratch and have the chip fabricated.
> I find if interesting that people argue about the accuracy of the software/hardware emulation. They could just, gee i dont know buy a Real snes. They are 100% accurate. and the cost is the same as these hardware ones emulated ones...... I dont get whats so hard about using a real snes...


It's made to played on modern hd tv's.  Does the original snes do that?  Nope.


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## Captain_N (Mar 3, 2018)

F34R said:


> It's made to played on modern hd tv's.  Does the original snes do that?  Nope.


Actually my snes plays on a modern tv. A tv i got new in 2017 playes it just fine. Besides if people are arguing about emulation perfection they should also know SNES is best played on crts. No hdtv is going to round out the blockyness of the pixels so they dont even look like pixels


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## the_randomizer (Mar 3, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> Actually my snes plays on a modern tv. A tv i got new in 2017 playes it just fine. Besides if people are arguing about emulation perfection they should also know SNES is best played on crts. No hdtv is going to round out the blockyness of the pixels so they dont even look like pixels



Not without scaling or other devices, hate to say it, but 240p on HDTVs looks like shite. Super NT has options for proper scaling, no filter, filter, SNES doesn't have those, sorry. I don't know why people choosing this over a real Snes is 
such a big deal. oh wait it's not.


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## Captain_N (Mar 3, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Not without scaling or other devices, hate to say it, but 240p on HDTVs looks like shite. Super NT has options for proper scaling, no filter, filter, SNES doesn't have those, sorry.


Yes it has scaling and other features. But they still will never 100% replicate a crt. I wonder if this uint can power and used the snes copiers like the Super Wild Card dx2 and the gamedoctor sf7? anyone ever tried one of those copiers on one of these or other modern snes clones?


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## the_randomizer (Mar 3, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> Yes it has scaling and other features. But they still will never 100% replicate a crt. I wonder if this uint can power and used the snes copiers like the Super Wild Card dx2 and the gamedoctor sf7? anyone ever tried one of those copiers on one of these or other modern snes clones?



Meh, CRTs are too bulky and take up too  much room, sorry, but I'm not a purist and personally couldn't care less about using them on a CRT *shrug*. Maybe, who knows.


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## Captain_N (Mar 3, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Meh, CRTs are too bulky and take up too  much room, sorry, but I'm not a purist and personally couldn't care less about using them on a CRT *shrug*. Maybe, who knows.


they do take up room. For me it has never been a problem as my gaming center uses a old school 90s computer desk and its been that way since 1989 lol. i just added the next console and placed it down the line next to the others lol.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 3, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> they do take up room. For me it has never been a problem as my gaming center uses a old school 90s computer desk and its been that way since 1989 lol. i just added the next console and placed it down the line next to the others lol.



I just well, I like the Super NT, HDMI support, no need for a Framemeister (*cough* overpriced *cough*) very accurate hardware emulation, that, and with my recently acquired SD2SNES, heh


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## isoboy (Mar 4, 2018)

I updated my super nt to 4.3 when I got it but after updating to 4.4 my everdrive flash cart won't work so I installed cfw and load roms from the sd card.


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## Classicgamer (Mar 4, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> I wonder if this uint can power and used the snes copiers like the Super Wild Card dx2 and the gamedoctor sf7? anyone ever tried one of those copiers on one of these or other modern snes clones?



I’ll stick with retroarch for all my systems except n64(ultra hdmi!!) since I like shader use. I would have gotten a super nt but don’t want another piece of hardware taking up space honestly. However, here is a great video about super nt and fpga programmer kevtris:


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## Hekel (Apr 5, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> Yes it has scaling and other features. But they still will never 100% replicate a crt. I wonder if this uint can power and used the snes copiers like the Super Wild Card dx2 and the gamedoctor sf7? anyone ever tried one of those copiers on one of these or other modern snes clones?


I tryed it out and it might be working.. I was not able to start the system with my wild card dx2 but the main problem seems to be there is more power needed. But well if this would work its possible to bypass the Super FX Chip.. but im pretty sure there should be a workaround without a Super Wild Card in use :-).


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## Captain_N (Apr 6, 2018)

Hekel said:


> I tryed it out and it might be working.. I was not able to start the system with my wild card dx2 but the main problem seems to be there is more power needed. But well if this would work its possible to bypass the Super FX Chip.. but im pretty sure there should be a workaround without a Super Wild Card in use :-).



Yeah, i was thinking that the unit would not be able to power a super wild card or any copier without powering the copier. The entire snes NT is low power id say. When ever i power a copier with an external source i get bad RF interference. I believe its coming from the unit itself leaking into the RF signal. Just me standing by the unit reduces the interference lol. 
The NT will be great for the flash cards out like the power pack and the everdrive. those carts are low power consumption.


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