# If I wanted to move to US this is what I'd need?



## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 2, 2017)

Did some basic research and this is what I've learned.


A Green Card which costs about a grand
Would need to remain 5 years in the country (kind of a moot point if one wouldn't want)
Go through an interview
Have medical reports
Review the documents properly and even with a lawyer
Pass the citizenship test
Sources:
http://www.wikihow.com/Immigrate-Into-the-United-States-Permanently
https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/immigrant-process.html

I personally have no problem paying the fees necessary but they definitely seem to have made it pretty complicated to apply for US citizenship whether to live or just for vacations. I'd love to visit Texas because it looks like such a wonderful and historic place, and among other states in US.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## slaphappygamer (Aug 2, 2017)

There are a lot of great places to visit. Put California on your list. That is where I live and i wouldn't live anywhere else.


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## Abcdfv (Aug 2, 2017)

IDK why anyone from a developed nation would want to move to the USA TBH.


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## SANIC (Aug 2, 2017)

slaphappygamer said:


> There are a lot of great places to visit. Put California on your list. That is where I live and i wouldn't live anywhere else.


same here, except i've never seen snow


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 2, 2017)

Abcdfv said:


> IDK why anyone from a developed nation would want to move to the USA TBH.


Because uhhhhh...

Yeah


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## Yepi69 (Aug 2, 2017)

Call it stupid, I call it curiosity.
Although me and BF are practically forbidden for going there because Trump's an ass

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk


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## DeoNaught (Aug 2, 2017)

why would you want to move here?


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 2, 2017)

You want to move here with Trump in charge?


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## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

If he wants to visit, who are we to tell him otherwise? No country is perfect and all governments are run by power hungry douchebag politicians, there, problem solved.


Edit: Also, there hasn't been a single perfect or angelic POTUS either, never has and never will be one.


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## slaphappygamer (Aug 2, 2017)

dont let that asshole stop you. He'll be gone soon.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 2, 2017)

Abcdfv said:


> IDK why anyone from a developed nation would want to move to the USA TBH.


This!!!!

I would not move there if was paid $200,000 to do so. I don't want to get shot or end up with a massive medical bill that bankrupts me. Holidays, with plenty of travel insurance, sure. I enjoyed my two visits. But to live.....?

@Saiyan Lusitano where do you live currently? If it is somewhere with civil wars etc I can understand wanting to get out. But maybe consider somewhere else. For example what about a Scandinavian country (always ranked in the top of world happiness and life satisfaction rankings), or Australia, or maybe Japan or Canada or the UK? If you live in South America I can understand wanting to go to the US because it's sort of the closest thing you think of. But once you emigrate, 2,000km is kind of the same as 20,000km so it's worth considering everything.


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## urherenow (Aug 2, 2017)

Green Cards do NOT cost a grand. Not if you do the paperwork yourself. You do need a sponsor or something (employer, usually, for a working VISA). I spent less than $400 for my wife's VISA. Did everything myself. There are pretty thorough instructions online that list all fees and requirements. There are also plenty of online forums of people who went through the process or are currently going through it.

But I guess Lawyers can "grease the skids" if you have the extra cash to throw around...


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## BlackWizzard17 (Aug 2, 2017)

You guys are making me feel like sad about being from the U.S 

Anyways I grew up in NYC and I have to say I enjoyed it. Would definitely say travel to California, NYC, L.A, Miami FL. Everyone loves to look at the U.S from a political stand point instead of trying to make a living or experience new changes.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 2, 2017)

BlackWizzard17 said:


> You guys are making me feel like sad about being from the U.S
> 
> Anyways I grew up in NYC and I have to say I enjoyed it. Would definitely say travel to California, NYC, L.A, Miami FL. Everyone loves to look at the U.S from a political stand point instead of trying to make a living or experience new changes.


It's not that living in the US is bad, it's just that there are better places that should be considered first


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 2, 2017)

He lives in the UK.
Sure moving to the US wouldn't improve his quality of life, but there are many things to like in the US, starting from it being a big damn country with a lot of places to visit if you dig the kind of things there are to visit there.
Also, no offense intended, but I think Saiyan is pretty much what a weeb would be, but replacing Japan for America. He would love living there in a very personal way.
You have to take that into consideration, that perhaps he wants to move out of a strong personal preference.


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## Viri (Aug 2, 2017)

slaphappygamer said:


> dont let that asshole stop you. He'll be gone soon.


Yup, 7 more years, and maybe after, we'll get a President Pence.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 2, 2017)

BlackWizzard17 said:


> You guys are making me feel like sad about being from the U.S
> 
> Anyways I grew up in NYC and I have to say I enjoyed it. Would definitely say travel to California, NYC, L.A, Miami FL. Everyone loves to look at the U.S from a political stand point instead of trying to make a living or experience new changes.


If you already live there and are used to it, and are healthy and have plenty of money then there's nothing wrong with it, the US is as fine a place to live as anywhere. If you aren't rich though, and you live in a place where people are looked after in terms of health, education, etc, it would be a shock to move to the US and find your standard of living has dropped dramatically even though you might be working in a job that pays more. There would be a large number of things you might take for granted in your life and then find they aren't there. So if you have a choice it would be better to move somewhere with similar conditions  (then you can compare wages and house prices etc more easily when working out what your living standards would be in different places).

Edit: taking into account what @sarkwalvein said, maybe a 6 month working holiday would be better. Then he can work out if he really loves it before making such a big commitment.


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## BlackWizzard17 (Aug 2, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's not that living in the US is bad, it's just that there are better places that should be considered first


Well that's a personal opinion though. Places have their ups and downs and unless he asked for requirements to move to say a list of different countries then I'm just gonna see people's post as bashing the U.S.


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## Maz7006 (Aug 2, 2017)

1. Assuming that you are from Portugal as indicated by your flag you do qualify to enter the United States under something called the ESTA as part of the Visa Waiver program

See here: http://www.esta.us/portugal-esta.html

Yes, I know you have your mind set on moving but it isn't as simple as you just stated. The ESTA will allow you 3 months in the states for leisure and business purposes; you cannot work is basically it's biggest legal implication. It will give you an idea about the states though; a really good way to experience the country firstly.

2. Getting a green card isn't a simple or quick process it may take years. You need some sort of entry point into the states. Basically many people enter the states under different types of Visas prior to even starting to have a green card.

3. Familiarize yourself with https://egov.uscis.gov this is like your holy book to all this stuff and if push comes to shove it wouldn't be a bad idea to hire a lawyer to help in the process. 

I spent 5 months in Texas; it's alright, Austin and San Antonio were great, Houston if you like a big metropolitan city, and that's about it really. 

I really liked the United States and definitely look forward to some kind of future there.


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## The Catboy (Aug 2, 2017)

The US is currently on fire, come back later.


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## Youkai (Aug 2, 2017)

lol yeah better just do holliday there before actualy moving ...

It is always funny when people from University here in Germany go to the US for 6 month for their study (many universitys require that you study abroad for one semester) 
come back and tell you "I was asked if Hitler is still ruling Germany" or stuff like "I heard all of you guys are Nazi" and some awesome things like "do you have internet in Germany?" 
I guess not all Americans are stupid but at least the stupid ones are the ones you remember the most XD

There is actually nothing that would make me want to go to America, I prefer going to Asia even though they have lots of problems as well.
(end of the Month I will be in Taiwan for the first time)


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## Viri (Aug 2, 2017)

Youkai said:


> I was asked if Hitler is still ruling Germany


Well, is he?


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## PrincessLillie (Aug 2, 2017)

For the current state of the USA, call 1-800-FUCK-TRUMP. /s
If you're coming here, you should add the beautiful state of Oklahoma to your list.


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## DarthDub (Aug 2, 2017)

Washington State is nice.


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## Youkai (Aug 2, 2017)

Viri said:


> Well, is he?



yes, he is alive and kicking buts.
actually we are secretly building up places to start the american atomic bombs that we have here in germany so that we can destroy all foreign forces at one go and build a worldwide German empire, but shhh don't tell anyone. We wouldn't want this secret plan beeing ruined.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 2, 2017)

A green card allows you to stay as long as you keep it renewed (it was once for life, not so much any more). There are various ways to get one depending upon what you are and what you want to do (if you have skills they really want, usually to masters degree or higher, you can get in faster than some), though the main way is having an employer actively trying to get you there, being children of US citizens (made trickier by age and marital status of you and your parents) or married to a citizen. I am not sure what the current options are for "unskilled" people that just want to go, though be prepared to wait.

"Pass the citizenship test"
That is for people wishing to become a citizen and get a US passport. Do it or don't but about the only thing it really gains you is the ability to vote and the ability to work fully inside certain federal agencies (if they really cared you would be an outside contractor anyway). You might get asked when you are going to take the test if you have a green card for a longer period of time (for reasons I have never been able to fathom it is a popular belief in the US that everybody wants to live there and anybody that is there is working towards citizenship) but you can ignore those people.

Most of the rest of that sounds about right, though as mentioned it is not so tricky that you can't do it without a lawyer. If you have one that will get your ducks in a row for a smaller fee ("£200 and I will make sure you have all the papers, nothing obvious in your background that will trip you up and give you a bit of prep on what the interview will involve" sort of thing) then it can save a lot of hassle. Also be aware that only certain doctors blessed by the US government can do the tests; in the UK they are few and far between, and charge a little bit more than pocket change for their services, though for the most part it involves a trip or two to London which is nothing really.


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## dimmidice (Aug 2, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> You want to move here with Trump in charge?


As far as i know she's a trump supporter. She'll fit right in.


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## Bimmel (Aug 2, 2017)

Abcdfv said:


> IDK why anyone from a developed nation would want to move to the USA TBH.





TotalInsanity4 said:


> Because uhhhhh...
> 
> Yeah


Exactly my thoughts. And as @Quantumcat said, if you can't fulfill certain conditions, maybe it's not so pleasant to life there. But I've never been there and my opinion is pretty biased because I hate that everyone can have a gun.

Long story short: I posted unnecessary stuff, noticed, but was to proud to erase it. Sorry I can't be of any help. Come to Germany, it's nice here.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 2, 2017)

Bimmel said:


> Come to Germany, it's nice here.


The weather disagrees. /s
I mean, Germany is beautiful, but hell I am fed up of rainy and cloudy days already. At least today is sunny here in Braunschweig, but way too humid...


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## Bimmel (Aug 2, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> The weather disagrees. /s
> I mean, Germany is beautiful, but hell I am fed up of rainy and cloudy days already. At least today is sunny here in Braunschweig, but way too humid...


You're in the wrong corner my friend. :-P

Rheinland-Pfalz is where you wanna be. Mostly good weather here. ;-)


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## spotanjo3 (Aug 2, 2017)

Abcdfv said:


> IDK why anyone from a developed nation would want to move to the USA TBH.



Me either. If he wants to move here.. it is up to him. He will get a low pay for a job here and struggle life as well. The cost of living here is unbelievable. And healthcare here is very bad! I explained to him and gave hi the documents of what USA is all about. He still wants to live here ? Okay, its up to him.



sarkwalvein said:


> He lives in the UK.
> Sure moving to the US wouldn't improve his quality of life, but there are many things to like in the US, starting from it being a big damn country with a lot of places to visit if you dig the kind of things there are to visit there.
> Also, no offense intended, but I think Saiyan is pretty much what a weeb would be, but replacing Japan for America. He would love living there in a very personal way.
> You have to take that into consideration, that perhaps he wants to move out of a strong personal preference.



Exactly. Thats what I am trying to tell him. Just want to helped him out since I am Portuguese and I live in America for the wrong reasons. I don't want him to make the same mistake decision.

He ignored my recommendation and my advice and my documents of what USA is all about to him including cost of living and healthcare and etc. He is still wanting to come here ? Jeez. He forgot something.. A job here for his immigration and become a citizen is impossible. He will get a low pay and a struggle to live here. That's his decision and it is up to him. He think that America will solve his problems in Portugal ? Interesting.


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 2, 2017)

You need a bolt cutter, a shovel and a flashlight


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## Deleted-355425 (Aug 2, 2017)

Thought you would of gone to Europe.


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## PrincessLillie (Aug 2, 2017)

Bimmel said:


> Rheinland-Pfalz is where you wanna be. Mostly good weather here. ;-)


Still in the wrong area. Come to Oklahoma, it's beautiful!


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## WeedZ (Aug 2, 2017)

The US isn't bad. The world seems to think that we're still the wild west here, but that simply isn't true. Sure we have a lot of guns, but most people use them for sport and keep them locked up. Most don't leave the house with them. Don't know if you guys have heard about our police, but you'd be likely to get shot if you get pulled over or stopped with a gun. At the very least shit gets really tense, really fast.

We don't have the best socialised medical coverage, but we're still sorting it out. One good thing I can say for capitalism though, is that it's produced some of the best doctors in the world. I think we're 2nd only to germany. There's a reason people go bankrupt for medical coverage, and that's because doctors here make assloads of money. If you were to be shot, this would be the place to do it.


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## Youkai (Aug 2, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> The US isn't bad. The world seems to think that we're still the wild west here, but that simply isn't true. Sure we have a lot of guns, but most people use them for sport and keep them locked up. Most don't leave the house with them. Don't know if you guys have heard about our police, but you'd be likely to get shot if you get pulled over or stopped with a gun. At the very least shit gets really tense, really fast.
> 
> We don't have the best socialised medical coverage, but we're still sorting it out. One good thing I can say for capitalism though, is that it's produced some of the best doctors in the world. I think we're 2nd only to germany. There's a reason people go bankrupt for medical coverage, and that's because doctors here make assloads of money. If you were to be shot, this would be the place to do it.




Lol yeah I have heard about your police shooting helpless woman calling them (that canadian woman not to long ago) and other people who get shot even though they never did anything wrong.
A guy who came into my former Company to train is with a special programming language told us that he is in a weopon club and went to america to buy weapons ... when he crossed the border from one place where he was allowed to cary a weapon to another where it was not allowed (which he didn't know) the police got him and wasn't really nice to him until he told them that he was from germany and bought the weapons for his club in germany ... he was lucky that one of the policemen had german ancestors and he was like "yeah brother its all good" XD

At least we don't have to pay out doctors anything extra, only pay our monthly 14% for insurance ... counting the times I really needed a doctor it would probably mcuh less expensive not paying this much every month but if you get a real problem or get lots of problems when you are old it might be a good thing.


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## DinohScene (Aug 2, 2017)

I wanted to move to the US not so long ago, kinda glad I didn't.

But yeh, you basically just need money and a lot of paper work.
@Clarky could possibly help you more with it.


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## Raverrevolution (Aug 2, 2017)

I was born in Italy, but was raised on LI, NY.  The US isn't that bad, but you have to be really choosy on where you live.  Find a quaint town in the south where the weather is good all year round and that living happily is actually achievable and you'll enjoy it.

If you move to LI first off you'll never own a house since the cheapest shack here is like $500,000 and good luck finding a job that won't suck your life away.

Personally I would never move from Europe to the US.  Hell, it would do you well to take a couple of vacations to see if you like it here first.


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## Stephano (Aug 2, 2017)

Raverrevolution said:


> I was born in Italy, but was raised on LI, NY.  The US isn't that bad, but you have to be really choosy on where you live.  Find a quaint town in the south where the weather is good all year round and that living happily is actually achievable and you'll enjoy it.
> 
> If you move to LI first off you'll never own a house since the cheapest shack here is like $500,000 and good luck finding a job that won't suck your life away.
> 
> Personally I would never move from Europe to the US.  Hell, it would do you well to take a couple of vacations to see if you like it here first.


Who would not want to move to the south? Its nice, beautiful, cheap, and 19/20 people are friendly.  I personally love it here but that is just bias talking. 
I never want to leave, I was born here, raised here, and gosh darn it, i'm going to die here. Arkansas for life!


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## Shadowfied (Aug 2, 2017)

Jesus christ I can't believe the kids talking about Trump here. Grow up.

I think it's a great thing that there's a lot to go through to move there. Living in a country is not a right, it's a privilege. As for just traveling for vacation, I just needed to fill an ESTA application.


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## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

i move to usa 4.5 years ago from london .. you will need about 6 to 7 grand .. a reason to be here ( i got married here ) .. and you could not have picked a worse time to try ... immigration  is a bitch these days .. every letter they send you will cost $500 to $600 to send back and reply ... 

A Green Card which costs about a grand
Would need to remain 5 years in the country (kind of a moot point if one wouldn't want)
Go through an interview
Have medical reports
Review the documents properly and even with a lawyer
Pass the citizenship test
these are just the basic's but there is so much more ... even DR's and Professionals are being refused ...  good luck it's a fucking nightmare


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Did some basic research and this is what I've learned.
> 
> 
> A Green Card which costs about a grand
> ...


If you want to visit? Cool. As a citizen, I can tell you there's really nothing worth staying for here.

Also, can we not bring political opinion into this? I've seen some of the views around here.. Some things are best left unsaid.


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## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

From all these country's you select USA. Ehh...


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## dAVID_ (Aug 2, 2017)

The American Dream doesn't exist. It's a trick made by capitalists to lure inmigrants into bad jobs.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Can people stop acting as though having a different POTUS would've been better? I.E. no POTUS would've made it better, no matter who wins, no matter what party is in charge of the government, no one would be placated, no one would've been perfectly happy. The opposite party/parties would be dissatisfied, it's just how it's always been since 1776, let's face it. And can we please stop insulting those who voted one way and instead direct your energy to other, bigger issues? That'd be great. If people want to move to the US, that's their prerogative. not ours.

Between Clinton and Trump, neither of them was fit to run as POTUS, the very fact we got the election down to those two clowns shows how desperate we Americans can be.


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## Aerocool (Aug 2, 2017)

Bimmel said:


> You're in the wrong corner my friend. :-P
> 
> Rheinland-Pfalz is where you wanna be. Mostly good weather here. ;-)



The Pfalz is beautiful and we have nice wine 

But stay away from Ludwigshafen, not the safest  place to visit...


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## linuxares (Aug 2, 2017)

Abcdfv said:


> IDK why anyone from a developed nation would want to move to the USA TBH.


Because... uhm.... hmm.... guns can be fun to shoot?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Pacheko17 said:


> Scandinavian shitholes are not better than the USA. Europe has never been better than the USA.


 I can't hear you over our universal healthcare, friendliness, openborders and happiness! Plus our Prisons aren't as full as yours


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## bennyman123abc (Aug 2, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Did some basic research and this is what I've learned.
> 
> 
> A Green Card which costs about a grand
> ...


If you'd like to live here, wait until Trump is out of office or N. Korea has nuked us. Whichever comes first!


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## Beerus (Aug 2, 2017)

canada boi free health care and good stuff


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## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Because... uhm.... hmm.... guns can be fun to shoot?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> I can't hear you over our universal healthcare, friendliness, openborders and happiness! Plus our Prisons aren't as full as yours



Yeah but your cost of living and taxes suck big time though  Free healthcare, education, etc all come at a cost, someone has to pay for it. The prison system, okay, you got us there, the prison system in the US is an effing joke. 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livi...lt.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Sweden


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## linuxares (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Yeah but your cost of living and taxes suck big time though  Free healthcare, education, etc all come at a cost, someone has to pay for it. The prison system, okay, you got us there, the prison system in the US is an effing joke.
> 
> https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livi...lt.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Sweden


That was an awful list.
Sure, our Taxes pay for a lot. So it makes a lot of people happy and healthy. The US system is built like a facist idiology, the strongest survive. 

You guys pay a lot of insurances, hidden food taxes (ours include the tax right away), we got right to education (Where in Sweden it's actually illegal if you don't go to school) and hell of a better environment that ain't polluted with fear of each other.


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## bennyman123abc (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> That was an awful list.
> Sure, our Taxes pay for a lot. So it makes a lot of people happy and healthy. The US system is built like a facist idiology, the strongest survive.
> 
> You guys pay a lot of insurances, hidden food taxes (ours include the tax right away), we got right to education (Where in Sweden it's actually illegal if you don't go to school) and hell of a better environment that ain't polluted with fear of each other.


Eh. I'll give you it's illegal to not go to school here too! That's about it though. And our public education system is absolute shit...


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## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> That was an awful list.
> Sure, our Taxes pay for a lot. So it makes a lot of people happy and healthy. The US system is built like a facist idiology, the strongest survive.
> 
> You guys pay a lot of insurances, hidden food taxes (ours include the tax right away), we got right to education (Where in Sweden it's actually illegal if you don't go to school) and hell of a better environment that ain't polluted with fear of each other.



And I totally have the means to move out of the US from having low funds being underemployed and in debt, right?  If you're going to bash the US, at least bash the government, not the people, I don't like it. I don't have any control of being able to move out or not. We're not perfect, no one is, so please try to keep that in mind. There's no denying there's a huge cost of living difference in Scandinavia compared to the US.  Free this, and free that, aren't truly free, because someone has to pay for it.


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## linuxares (Aug 2, 2017)

bennyman123abc said:


> Eh. I'll give you it's illegal to not go to school here too! That's about it though. And our public education system is absolute shit...


Ours (Sweden) have declined. But the Finns got a really damn good one!

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the_randomizer said:


> And I totally have the means to move out of the US from having low funds being underemployed and in debt, right?  If you're going to bash the US, at least bash the government, not the people, I don't like it. I don't have any control of being able to move out or not. We're not perfect, no one is, so please try to keep that in mind. Thank you. There's no denying there's a huge cost of living difference in Scandinavia compared to the US.  Anyways.


I will bash the people and the goverment, because it's your duty to vote in the right people. Then again the democracy system over there is really, really strange.


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## bennyman123abc (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Ours (Sweden) have declined. But the Finns got a really damn good one!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I feel I have the right to bitch about the country leader here as he hasn't given me the right to vote to change who the next leader will be.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Ours (Sweden) have declined. But the Finns got a really damn good one!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



It's so nice to be loved by other people from other countries, remind me to do the same for other people in other countries as well. It's only fair and my  right to bash others for the people they vote too. Sound good? Good.

More anti-American bullshit, I love it, keep it coming.


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Because... uhm.... hmm.... guns can be fun to shoot?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> I can't hear you over our universal healthcare, friendliness, openborders and happiness! Plus our Prisons aren't as full as yours



I can't hear you over with your socialism bullshit.
Your country is collapsing, you've became a bunch of pussies. If Sweden keeps going like this, there will be no Sweden.

Nothing is free too, you're still paying for all that bullshit. Private is better than public.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



linuxares said:


> Ours (Sweden) have declined. But the Finns got a really damn good one!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



They did vote the right people. Unlike you.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> If he wants to visit, who are we to tell him otherwise? No country is perfect and all governments are run by power hungry douchebag politicians, there, problem solved.
> 
> 
> Edit: Also, there hasn't been a single perfect or angelic POTUS either, never has and never will be one.



The US is definitely far better than the crisis Western Europe is facing right now and it won't take long before things take a turn for the worse.



Quantumcat said:


> This!!!!
> 
> I would not move there if was paid $200,000 to do so. I don't want to get shot or end up with a massive medical bill that bankrupts me. Holidays, with plenty of travel insurance, sure. I enjoyed my two visits. But to live.....?
> 
> @Saiyan Lusitano where do you live currently? If it is somewhere with civil wars etc I can understand wanting to get out. But maybe consider somewhere else. For example what about a Scandinavian country (always ranked in the top of world happiness and life satisfaction rankings), or Australia, or maybe Japan or Canada or the UK? If you live in South America I can understand wanting to go to the US because it's sort of the closest thing you think of. But once you emigrate, 2,000km is kind of the same as 20,000km so it's worth considering everything.





TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's not that living in the US is bad, it's just that there are better places that should be considered first



It's no secret that I live in UK and the rest I want to move is because UK nor Europe are safe anymore. In UK someone can just throw acid in your face while you're walking down the road, stabs you, runs you over or whatever weird shit.

I used to love UK as it used to be a great European country but honest to god, that time is long gone.

Honestly, it's really chicken of me to leave Europe if I can while the rest will keep on suffering. This will just end up on multiple civil wars.



Maz7006 said:


> 1. Assuming that you are from Portugal as indicated by your flag you do qualify to enter the United States under something called the ESTA as part of the Visa Waiver program
> 
> See here: http://www.esta.us/portugal-esta.html
> 
> ...



Thank you for this piece of information. I'm currently not in Portugal though I am native Portugal and plan on moving back, sooner rather than later.

The tidbit about taking years is something that concerns me although with patience and plan in mind it'll allow to make time and plan it ahead so I suppose it's not all that bad.

2A isn't something that Europe really has it per say but there are other means of protection (bb guns, bullet proof vests, etc), albeit not as effective.



Lilith Valentine said:


> The US is currently on fire, come back later.



Compared to Europe the US is in a far better condition and citizens have the amendments in their rights.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> The US is definitely far better than the crisis Western Europe is facing right now and it won't take long before things take a turn for the worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well Linuxares seems to disagree; I'm not trying to say our country is perfect, no country is or ever will be. All governments want is power to themselves, not power to the people, many politicians are corrupt and selfish. But I'll be damned if some butthurt punk wants to bash a country's citizens based off of their government or decisions. Sometimes we don't always have a say in who to elect for, so if people don't like what the US does, so fucking what?


----------



## Joe88 (Aug 2, 2017)

I like how over 3/4 of the posts here are either people who don't even live in the USA but find the need to bash it or liberals still crying that trump won the election...
gg


----------



## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

USA is amazing dont listen to these people they probably never even been!!  here i lived all over the world from japan to new Zealand all over Uk for year's  all over Europe Too for the most part  ... usa is a very nice place to live .. it just depends where you are of course  these guys just are your usal USA hate krew .. you'll never stop a hater hating lol


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## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Joe88 said:


> I like how over 3/4 of the posts here are either people who don't even live in the USA but find the need to bash it or liberals still crying that trump won the election...
> gg



If Clinton won, people would be doing the exact same thing, no matter who wins, people will never stop complaining, it's a fact. As for those bashing the US for some half-assed reason? They need to get over it, and they need to get their facts straight.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Sometimes we don't always have a say in who to elect for


Potus, Elections. You have alot of power, just dumb people selecting the wrong thing.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> Potus, Elections. You have alot of power, just dumb people selecting the wrong thing.



We had a choice between two morons, what were we supposed to elect? And for the love of all that is holy, hate the government, not the people of the US; hating us because of who the POTUS currently is, is a dick move. No, and I'm not sorry for saying it.


----------



## Haloman800 (Aug 2, 2017)

You could do all of that, _or_ fly to Mexico and walk across


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> We had a choice between two morons, what were we supposed to elect? And for the love of all that is holy, hate the government, not the people of the US; hating us because of who the POTUS currently is, is a dick move. No, and I'm not sorry for saying it.


Americans are known here as idiots so sorry if that statement hurt you.
/shrug


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> Potus, Elections. You have alot of power, just dumb people selecting the wrong thing.



Popular vote doesn't work. Otherwise Clinton would have won. Electoral colleges are the deciding vote. Which always seems to be bought votes. The people have a say? That's laughable at best. Until we decide to man up and take back our promised control? We have no voice.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Felek666 said:


> Americans are known here as idiots so sorry if that statement hurt you.
> /shrug



You're what... 14? 15? Form your opinion and don't let the popular opinion influence you. Hate breeds ignorance.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> Americans are known here as idiots so sorry if that statement hurt you.
> /shrug



That's not my problem, is it? I think anti-American/haters are all a bunch of inconsiderate jerks. Don't like it, then don't come over here, we don't need that kind of negativity in the US. Hating a place you've never been to? Where have I heard that before?


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Popular vote doesn't work. Otherwise Clinton would have won. Electoral colleges are the deciding vote. Which always seems to be bought votes. The people have a say? That's laughable at best. Until we decide to man up and take back our promised control? We have no voice.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Thanks for your word.
(It's my own opinion anyways.)


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> Thanks for your word.
> (It's my own opinion anyways.)



Which is good. If it's what you choose to go with I respect that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



the_randomizer said:


> That's not my fucking problem, is it? I think anti-American/haters are all a bunch of inconsiderate jerks. Don't like it, then don't come over here, we don't need that kind of negativity in the US.



I think they're entitled to that opinion. If you don't give people a reason to believe otherwise? Why should they?


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Which is good. If it's what you choose to go with I respect that.


I guess.
Before this escalates even furțer: I have nothing to single americans but to it's majority for making dumb decisions sometimes.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Which is good. If it's what you choose to go with I respect that.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Then I have the right to equally despise other people from other countries, fair's fair, no?


Forget it, I'm done.


Going to crawl up in a ball and cry now.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> I guess.
> Before this escalates even furțer: I have nothing to single americans but to it's majority for making dumb decisions sometimes.


I live here and always question some of the things we do.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



the_randomizer said:


> Then I have the right to equally despise other people from other countries, fair's fair, no?
> 
> 
> Forget it, I'm done.



I don't understand that logic. Hate for hate doesn't all of a sudden negate it. How's that saying go? Haters gonna hate?


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> I live here and always question some of the things we do.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Then what do we do, let people hate us, bend over and take it up the tailpipe? We shouldn't have to tolerate that BS and accept it like sheep.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Then I have the right to equally despise other people from other countries, fair's fair, no?
> 
> 
> Forget it, I'm done.
> ...


The same way as people call us car stealers because some shitheads used to sell stolen cars in Germany.
At the end you don't care about this type of stuff yet people love to bring it up. 
Fair? Yeah.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Then what do we do, let people hate us and take it up the tailpipe? We shouldn't have to tolerate that BS and accept it like sheep.



How is that accepting it like sheep? You have your definitions all mixed up here. Like I said, if you don't give them a reason to think otherwise? Why should they? Does it really make sense to enforce their views by having that attitude? "You hate me, so I hate you.." k


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> The same way as people call us car stealers because some shitheads used to sell stolen cars in Germany.
> At the end you don't care about this type of stuff yet people love to bring it up.
> Fair? Yeah.



I never bashed a single persons' nationality or their country in the six years I've been here on the Temp, what am I supposed to say to those who hate me and my country?



Memoir said:


> How is that accepting it like sheep? You have your definitions all mixed up here. Like I said, if you don't give them a reason to think otherwise? Why should they? Does it really make sense to enforce their views by having that attitude? "You hate me, so I hate you.." k


Think it's a little late for that, given who's in power, what our government's been doing the past six or so months, no? We can't change their minds, they're going to hate us no matter what we do or who we are.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> I never bashed a single persons' nationality or their country in the six years I've been here on the Temp, what am I supposed to say to those who hate me and my country?


Accept it and just move on? I see people bashing my country on everyday basis so? Why should you really care?
It's a opinion afterall


----------



## dimmidice (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Can people stop acting as though having a different POTUS would've been better?


Well this potus made immigration much harder. So yeah, it would definitely be better to move there under a different potus.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

dimmidice said:


> Well this potus made immigration much harder. So yeah, it would definitely be better to move there under a different potus.



Do you think that loosening the laws would curtail illegal activities? Illegal immigration is a huge issue, why shouldn't there be stricter immigration laws to curtail illegalities? I have no problems with immigration, I have every issue when it's done illegally.

What I also hate is when people treat illegal is somehow a race, illegal is law, not a group of people.



Memoir said:


> Well, any respectable person knows better than base an opinion of a whole nationality on one piece of it.



It still happens a lot though.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> I never bashed a single persons' nationality or their country in the six years I've been here on the Temp, what am I supposed to say to those who hate me and my country?
> 
> 
> Think it's a little late for that, given who's in power, what our government's been doing the past six or so months, no? We can't change their minds, they're going to hate us no matter what we do or who we are.



Well, any respectable person knows better than base an opinion of a whole nationality on one piece of it.


----------



## dimmidice (Aug 2, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> snip


I'm just gonna say a few things to this. I'm saying these things cause i really truly mean them. And i hope you actually read them and think about it. you seem to think there's danger around any corner from the dangerous scary muslims. You need to see a shrink and stop paying attention to so much right wing media. I'm seriously concerned for your mental health as you seem quite unhinged.


the_randomizer said:


> Do you think that loosening the laws would curtail illegal activities? Illegal immigration is a huge issue, why shouldn't there be stricter immigration laws to curtail illegalities? I have no problems with immigration, I have every issue when it's done illegally.


 When did i even mention illegal immigration? He made legal immigration harder. That's my entire point.


----------



## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

if you like me and don't give a fuck about politics like me just ignore these ass pipes and you will have a great life over here


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

SuperDan said:


> if you like me and don't give a fuck about politics like me just ignore these ass pipes and you will have a great life over here



Well.. Ignorance IS bliss.


----------



## linuxares (Aug 2, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> I can't hear you over with your socialism bullshit.
> Your country is collapsing, you've became a bunch of pussies. If Sweden keeps going like this, there will be no Sweden.


I'm actually for that the kingdom of Sweden disappears and that Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway once again join in to one.



> Nothing is free too, you're still paying for all that bullshit. *Private* is better than public.


Yeah, I don't believe you for a second there. Private is better on some levels, some not so much.



the_randomizer said:


> Well Linuxares seems to disagree; I'm not trying to say our country is perfect, no country is or ever will be. All governments want is power to themselves, not power to the people, many politicians are corrupt and selfish.


Yes and no. I disagree with a lot of that the US is better than the Europe remarks. I never said Sweden or EU was perfect. What most people blame/are scared of is the "muslim" invasion. I for one wish we could help people close to the same territory where they're, but some don't have that option.

Also about corrupt politicians, this is why I wish the press did more digging. Then we didn't need Wikileaks to show the dirt.

I lived in the "ghettos" here in Sweden, hmm... I might actually still live in one according to some news sources. Yet I don't feel afraid at all.
Is it perfect here? No. But I be damn if I didn't try to solve it with my vote and discussions.


----------



## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Well.. Ignorance IS bliss.


sure is politics is lies with lies and some extra bullshit .. its all middle class hype for fools ... if voting could change anything they wouldn't let us do it....


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

SuperDan said:


> sure is politics is lies with lies and some extra bullshit .. its all middle class hype for fools ... if voting could change anything they wouldn't let us do it....



I think politics are a joke and politicians are overpaid. That's what happens when you give certain people control. At the end of the day, I believe it needs rebuilt from the ground up. Tired of this two party bullshit.


----------



## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> I think politics are a joke and politicians are overpaid. That's what happens when you give certain people control. At the end of the day, I believe it needs rebuilt from the ground up. Tired of this two party bullshit.


its just the millionaires club for people born into rich families .. its beyond a joke .. pointless ... excuses for profit making fake wars ....... fake news .. fake everything .. i ignore the hell outta it and always will .. life is much sweeter without all that useless crap annoying my head


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

dAVID_ said:


> The American Dream doesn't exist. It's a trick made by capitalists to lure inmigrants into bad jobs.


If the American dream didn't exist, then why do millions of immigrants, legal or illegal, still risk there lives to come here? If it didn't exist then wouldn't you think the ones that already came here would call their friends up back at home and tell them to not even bother to come? Every time I talk to a Latino immigrant around where I live (there are a lot of them here), they are very grateful for being here and having actual economic freedom. Also if the American dream we're dead, then how come Jeff bezos, one of the richest men in the world, came from a teen Mom and didn't really have anything to start out with? The American dream is alive and well, some are just too ignorant to realize it. It's great to see all these people throwing mud at America. Come here and you actually will see we aren't that bad. The media just likes to make it sound like were the worst country ever because they're still butthurt about Trump.


----------



## face235 (Aug 2, 2017)

I agree with whoever said that Oklahoma is a nice place! That's where I went on vacation this year. Visited Tulsa, I did. It's really got it all there. Big city, grass fields, and mountains all very close to each other. I really want to go back soon, it makes Mississippi seem insignificant, even though it isn't.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 2, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> If the American dream didn't exist, then why do millions of immigrants, legal or illegal, still risk there lives to come here? If it didn't exist then wouldn't you think the ones that already came here would call their friends up back at home and tell them to not even bother to come? Every time I talk to a Latino immigrant around where I live (there are a lot of them here), they are very grateful for being here and having actual economic freedom. Also if the American dream we're dead, then how come Jeff bezos, one of the richest men in the world, came from a teen Mom and didn't really have anything to start out with? The American dream is alive and well, some are just too ignorant to realize it. It's great to see all these people throwing mud at America. Come here and you actually will see we aren't that bad. The media just likes to make it sound like were the worst country ever because they're still butthurt about Trump.


The original American dream is dead. You can't argue that. There's too many benefits for outsiders to not come here.. But the citizens are treated like dirt. At least the working class is. What with Obamacare/ACA... Tax systems... Education... I find myself spiraling even further every damn day when I try to take part in these amazing benefits. They work for lower and upper classes though. Makes sense, right?


----------



## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

face235 said:


> I agree with whoever said that Oklahoma is a nice place! That's where I went on vacation this year. Visited Tulsa, I did. It's really got it all there. Big city, grass fields, and mountains all very close to each other. I really want to go back soon, it makes Mississippi seem insignificant, even though it isn't.


there is so many lovely places over here Oklahoma, Colorado im in Louisiana absolutely gorgeous ... especially since i come from inner city london which is a huge human zoo .. was great in the 80's growing up 90's too but now its gone to the dogs


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

Memoir said:


> The original American dream is dead. You can't argue that. There's too many benefits for outsiders to not come here.. But the citizens are treated like dirt. At least the working class is. What with Obamacare/ACA... Tax systems... Education... I find myself spiraling even further every damn day when I try to take part in these amazing benefits. They work for lower and upper classes though. Makes sense, right?


I agree that we aren't perfect and there's still a lot of work to be done when it comes to healthcare, taxes, education, etc., But look where some of these people come from (I'm talking about Central and South America). It's a whole lot better here than it ever was there.


----------



## SuperDan (Aug 2, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> I agree that we aren't perfect and there's still a lot of work to be done when it comes to healthcare, taxes, education, etc., But look where some of these people come from (I'm talking about Central and South America). It's a whole lot better here than it ever was there.


FACT !!!


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> More anti-American bullshit, I love it, keep it coming.


For the record nobody really hates America. The following clip largely summarises what people think when someone says American


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> For the record nobody really hates America. The following clip largely summarises what people think when someone says American




I don't even know what to do or say in these threads anymore..I'll just concede and disavow this ever happening.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> I don't even know what to do or say in these threads anymore..I'll just concede and disavow this ever happening.


The trick is to not take things seriously, or perhaps personally would be a better choice of word.

Or if you prefer
Flame war?
*puts on speedo and dives right in*


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> For the record nobody really hates America. The following clip largely summarises what people think when someone says American



I laughed and I'm an American. Tourists from various parts of the country here visiting other parts will make me laugh just because of how they act. Most of the tourists are jerks here where I live though, which is a shame.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shadowfied said:


> Jesus christ I can't believe the kids talking about Trump here. Grow up.


I know, right?? It's not like his decisions directly affect immigration to the country!

Wait...


----------



## RevPokemon (Aug 2, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I know, right?? It's not like his decisions directly affect immigration to the country!
> 
> Wait...


But on another point using political leaders as means to base off of which country is the best to live in is fundamentally flawed in all but a totalitarian nation. I would add however that the "best" country really is subjective since the reasons why it is good or bad may vary but I would argue America is superior to say England or Finland but inferior to Singapore.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I know, right?? It's not like his decisions directly affect immigration to the country!
> 
> Wait...


If Mario can get over the wall, anyone can:


----------



## digipimp75 (Aug 2, 2017)

Come on over!  Even though the US can be a cesspool, there is a lot of opportunity and beauty to be found here.


----------



## WeedZ (Aug 2, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Lol yeah I have heard about your police shooting helpless woman calling them (that canadian woman not to long ago) and other people who get shot even though they never did anything wrong.
> A guy who came into my former Company to train is with a special programming language told us that he is in a weopon club and went to america to buy weapons ... when he crossed the border from one place where he was allowed to cary a weapon to another where it was not allowed (which he didn't know) the police got him and wasn't really nice to him until he told them that he was from germany and bought the weapons for his club in germany ... he was lucky that one of the policemen had german ancestors and he was like "yeah brother its all good" XD
> 
> At least we don't have to pay out doctors anything extra, only pay our monthly 14% for insurance ... counting the times I really needed a doctor it would probably mcuh less expensive not paying this much every month but if you get a real problem or get lots of problems when you are old it might be a good thing.


The states are kind of weird when it comes to weapons. Each state has their own laws. Some you can buy guns and carry them in the open, others you need a license, and some you can buy them but can't keep them loaded in public. The states have different drug laws too. Some are legal in some places and banned in others. I suppose it's kind of like the EU in a way. You can freely travel from one place to another, but each one has different state level laws that you have to recognize.


----------



## Pacheko17 (Aug 2, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Yeah, I don't believe you for a second there. Private is better on some levels, some not so much.


I've lived under socialism for almost my entire life.
It starts off good enough, the people rejoice.
But it goes to shit very quickly, the country goes into chaos and NO ONE will want to use public shit anymore. If you catch some lethal virus here, expect to pay, because if you try using SUS ( universal healthcare system ), you might as well just die.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> The states are kind of weird when it comes to weapons. Each state has their own laws. Some you can buy guns and carry them in the open, others you need a license, and some you can buy them but can't keep them loaded in public. The states have different drug laws too. Some are legal in some places and banned in others. I suppose it's kind of like the EU in a way. You can freely travel from one place to another, but each one has different state level laws that you have to recognize.


That's probably the most important factor when moving to the states is looking at the different laws varying from states. If @Saiyan Lusitano is really serious I would say look at state laws first and then look at geographic location. Also note that some states can have a varied ecosystem, an example being my state of Georgia. It has mountains, plains that go on for miles, the ocean, and even swamps within its borders.


----------



## WeedZ (Aug 2, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> That's probably the most important factor when moving to the states is looking at the different laws varying from states. If @Saiyan Lusitano is really serious I would say look at state laws first and then look at geographic location. Also note that some states can have a varied ecosystem, an example being my state of Georgia. It has mountains, plains that go on for miles, the ocean, and even swamps within its borders.


For sure. Just driving from Indiana to florida, you go from flat farmland in Kentucky, to mountains in Tennessee/Georgia to swamp and tropical like beaches of florida. And that's just a 16 hour drive. That's something I love about this country.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Aug 2, 2017)

Politics aside. America is a beautiful country and its definitely on my list of places to visit.

I actually wanted to relocate permanently myself here at one point in my life. But i dont wanna get hurt and have no health care to save my life. I guess that is one of the benefits of living in the U.K. But that isnt me backing up the NHS either since i think it needs reforming altogether!


----------



## Lacius (Aug 2, 2017)

It's interesting that this thread was posted the day before Trump announced his desire to halve legal immigration to the United States.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

And this is why I abhor politics to the utmost level; nothing is ever solved and debates always bring out the worst in people regardless of their political affiliation  *drops mic  and walks off stage*


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 2, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> For sure. Just driving from Indiana to florida, you go from flat farmland in Kentucky, to mountains in Tennessee/Georgia to swamp and tropical like beaches of florida. And that's just a 16 hour drive. That's something I love about this country.


And then there's Iowa

It's flat and we have corn


----------



## YamiZee (Aug 2, 2017)

Lemme just say that I hate California. The place is overly hot and you can tell that everything is built on top of a desert wasteland. I guess it's alright if you enjoy beaches and surfing. As it turns out I hate both. Many buildings look terrible and there's too much nothingness to go around. The only nice parts of California are the most populated cities, and I guess north where it's less of a wasteland. That's my review of it after living there for 10 years.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

YamiZee said:


> Lemme just say that I hate California. The place is overly hot and you can tell that everything is built on top of a desert wasteland. I guess it's alright if you enjoy beaches and surfing. As it turns out I hate both. Many buildings look terrible and there's too much nothingness to go around. The only nice parts of California are the most populated cities, and I guess north where it's less of a wasteland. That's my review of it after living there for 10 years.



Don't forget the half-assed taxation and stupid regulations, the cost of living and the piss poor state government.


----------



## invaderyoyo (Aug 2, 2017)

Wow, lots of people don't like the US. I really like it here in SoCal. I can also tell you that the American dream is definitely real. You do need some luck and hard work, though.


----------



## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 2, 2017)

I see no reason that anyone would really want to move here to the US unless you really want to live in a cool place like Cali. (We have everything mountains, snow, deserts, forests, and beaches but it's expensive.) Also with the political mess we have with people constantly complaining about everything that Trump does, all of the "peaceful" protests (they're actually more like riots let's be real) and the whole mess with LGBT related events it's not the greatest place at the moment but I still have hope

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



YamiZee said:


> Lemme just say that I hate California. The place is overly hot and you can tell that everything is built on top of a desert wasteland. I guess it's alright if you enjoy beaches and surfing. As it turns out I hate both. Many buildings look terrible and there's too much nothingness to go around. The only nice parts of California are the most populated cities, and I guess north where it's less of a wasteland. That's my review of it after living there for 10 years.


I've lived in California my whole life and I believe that you just live in a shitty part of Cali


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Don't forget the half-assed taxation and stupid regulations, the cost of living and the piss poor state government.


That's ok, in two years they're gonna pull out of the union peacefully and painless anyway and become a world superpower. (At least in the Californians' minds that want to pull out think they will)


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 2, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> That's ok, in two years they're gonna pull out of the union peacefully and painless anyway and become a world superpower. (At least in the Californians' minds that want to pull out think they will)



Good luck to them without federal funding and other resources. They're taking the coward's way out instead of manning up and dealing with it.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> I see no reason that anyone would really want to move here to the US unless you really want to live in a cool place like Cali. (We have everything mountains, snow, deserts, forests, and beaches but it's expensive.) Also with the political mess we have with people constantly complaining about everything that Trump does, all of the "peaceful" protests (they're actually more like riots let's be real) and the whole mess with LGBT related events it's not the greatest place at the moment but I still have hope


We have all those things here in Georgia except the desert.  we have a replacement for the desert too, it's called the swamp. Honestly I would advise not moving to California because Everytime I've gone there everything feels like it's 10x more expensive then it should be plus there are a ton more regulations and laws there than anywhere else I've been to in the states.


----------



## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 2, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> We have all those things here in Georgia except the desert.  we have a replacement for the desert too, it's called the swamp. Honestly I would advise not moving to California because Everytime I've gone there everything feels like it's 10x more expensive then it should be plus there are a ton more regulations and laws there than anywhere else I've been to in the states.


I wouldn't know much about how the laws compare but we have decent gun laws and great knife laws. Jobs here also compensate for how much more expensive things are.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also about Trump's actions on immigration related things. One of the biggest gangs the MS13's were brought into the USA from central/south America. When Trump started acting on deporting illegal immigrants the MS13's started to drop like flies and we are still destroying them. After this starting happening people complained that it was discrimination because they're Latino when the deportation service was just doing what they should've been doing since the second that service was created.


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## gamefan5 (Aug 2, 2017)

I read this entire thread and I have never been feeling so comfortable to live in Canada.


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## jefffisher (Aug 2, 2017)

i don't know what everyone is going on about i have a ton of immigrant friends from at least ten different countries and all five continents people actually live on.
most of them are super hyped to live here much moreso than any native united states citizen.
the exception is peurto ricans they never shut up about how much better it was and how they wish they could go back but none of them ever do and it's literally a $90 plane ticket with no paperwork needed.
go to texas get yourself a cool gun and use your accent to seduce a hot texas girl get yourself a green card marriage and stay forever.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 2, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> I read this entire thread and I have never been feeling so comfortable to live in Canada.


Every time I see a movie or TV show with Canadians in it I wonder why doesn't every American try to move to Canada :-p I would love to visit there one day. Next time the North American Bridge Championships are in Toronto I will seriously consider going.
By the way I don't hate Americans, everyone I met on my holidays were lovely, as well as nearly every American I've met here, it's just the social and living conditions in the country itself that are less than ideal which makes me not want to live there permanently. I would probably dislike a right wing nutjob extreme Christian who owns several semi automatic rifles and hates gays and Muslims and thinks schools should all teach directly from the bible and maths is sent from the devil. But that seems to just be a bad stereotype and those people don't actually exist. Or at least they are rare enough that I've never actually managed to meet one.


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## Viri (Aug 2, 2017)

Youkai said:


> yes, he is alive and kicking buts.


Based Hitler! I always knew that Hitler made it to South America, and that his suicide was just Soviet propaganda!


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## The Catboy (Aug 2, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Compared to Europe the US is in a far better condition and citizens have the amendments in their rights.


The thing is, you kind of want to come to America at the worst possible time. We currently have a president is either trying to throw you out, block you from entering, or blaming you for everything. I feel like it might be a better idea to wait a few years for things to hopefully get better so not to risk either isolating yourself or having an unnecessarily difficult time.


gamefan5 said:


> I read this entire thread and I have never been feeling so comfortable to live in Canada.


I envy you. Canada is like the America that could


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## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 2, 2017)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The thing is, you kind of want to come to America at the worst possible time. We currently have a president is either trying to throw you out, block you from entering, or blaming you for everything. I feel like it might be a better idea to wait a few years for things to hopefully get better so not to risk either isolating yourself or having an unnecessarily difficult time.
> 
> I envy you. Canada is like the America that could


Hes only throwing out illegals so as long as you have everything you need you're fine


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## rileysrjay (Aug 2, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Every time I see a movie or TV show with Canadians in it I wonder why doesn't every American try to move to Canada :-p I would love to visit there one day. Next time the North American Bridge Championships are in Toronto I will seriously consider going.
> By the way I don't hate Americans, everyone I met on my holidays were lovely, as well as nearly every American I've met here, it's just the social and living conditions in the country itself that are less than ideal which makes me not want to live there permanently. I would probably dislike a right wing nutjob extreme Christian who owns several semi automatic rifles and hates gays and Muslims and thinks schools should all teach directly from the bible and maths is sent from the devil. But that seems to just be a bad stereotype and those people don't actually exist. Or at least they are rare enough that I've never actually managed to meet one.


Granted I've actually never met an true alt-right person, but give me five minutes and I could probably find you one. Most right winged people that I know only carry a gun for self defense.


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## The Catboy (Aug 2, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Hes only throwing out illegals so as long as you have everything you need you're fine


No, he's also aiming for legal ones now.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 2, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Hes only throwing out illegals so as long as you have everything you need you're fine


Didn't he wasn't too halve legal immigration as well?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lilith Valentine said:


> No, he's also aiming for legal ones now.


That article is quite interesting. I wonder if it is actually a good thing - with less people willing to work for peanuts the question of the minimum wage might come up again, and be brought into line with other developed nations. And that's a big part of why it sucks so much to be poor in the US. Trump might accidentally do something good :-p

And it looks like the bill won't affect OP, as he isn't trying to get in based on being a sibling or adult child of a resident.


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## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 2, 2017)

Lilith Valentine said:


> No, he's also aiming for legal ones now.


What I see in this article is not Trump deporting legal immigrants. From what I grasp it's going to make it more difficult to immigrate by taking into account your skills and language ability and allowing American citizens to sponsor family members to let them enter. Sorry if some of this is wrong or I misinterpreted anything I skimmed through the article. If it is what i think it is I personally think it can be a good thing


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## The Catboy (Aug 2, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> What I see in this article is not Trump deporting legal immigrants. From what I grasp it's going to make it more difficult to immigrate by taking into account your skills and language ability and allowing American citizens to sponsor family members to let them enter. Sorry if some of this is wrong or I misinterpreted anything I skimmed through the article.


That's kind of not how America is suppose to work.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 2, 2017)

Hopes, dreams, and a prayer? (If you believe in that stuff)


----------



## gamefan5 (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Every time I see a movie or TV show with Canadians in it *I wonder why doesn't every American try to move to Canada *:-p I would love to visit there one day. Next time the North American Bridge Championships are in Toronto I will seriously consider going.
> By the way I don't hate Americans, everyone I met on my holidays were lovely, as well as nearly every American I've met here, it's just the social and living conditions in the country itself that are less than ideal which makes me not want to live there permanently. I would probably dislike a right wing nutjob extreme Christian who owns several semi automatic rifles and hates gays and Muslims and thinks schools should all teach directly from the bible and maths is sent from the devil. But that seems to just be a bad stereotype and those people don't actually exist. Or at least they are rare enough that I've never actually managed to meet one.


It is legit a great country to live to, especially for anyone looking to start a new life.
Not to mention, free health care.
*Certain conditions applies
And winter time isn't as hellish as everyone thinks hahah.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> It is legit a great country to live to, especially for anyone looking to start a new life.
> Not to mention, free health care.
> *Certain conditions applies
> And winter time isn't as hellish as everyone thinks hahah.


I love snow so I think I'd feel at home there :-) Something I don't like about where I live is that it gets so cold yet never snows. If it's going to freeze our butts off it should give us something pretty to look at and play with while it's doing so :-P


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## Kevinpuerta (Aug 3, 2017)

Whys everyone only pointing out the political problems and not on how good/bad living here could be?


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## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

So much melodrama in just the first page.

The United States is doing just fine.  No one man can ruin a country over night.  Don't let the haters who've never been to America tell you what to expect.  It's a big country with a lot of variety depending on where you go.


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## Beerus (Aug 3, 2017)

the US is nice alot of scenery and places to see  just dont go to a sketchy area like Detroit  u should be fine tbh 



CANADA IS STILL BETER THO just saying


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

Kevinpuerta said:


> Whys everyone only pointing out the political problems and not on how good/bad living here could be?





grossaffe said:


> So much melodrama in just the first page.
> 
> The United States is doing just fine.  No one man can ruin a country over night.  Don't let the haters who've never been to America tell you what to expect.  It's a big country with a lot of variety depending on where you go.


None of us non-Americans are saying it's Trump that is making it bad to live there. The low minimum wage, no national healthcare, number of guns are why. Nothing to do with Trump (he would be struggling to get through any really bad policy because of all the people that it would have to go through.... Right? All he is doing is looking very silly until his term runs out or he gets impeached?)


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## Plstic (Aug 3, 2017)

Move to the midwest so you don't have to deal with the east coast and west coast bullshit. Midcoast is where it's at :^).


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## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> None of us non-Americans are saying it's Trump that is making it bad to live there. The low minimum wage, no national healthcare, number of guns are why.


Yes, keep talking about those things as if you understand them.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Yes, keep talking about those things as if you understand them.


What things don't I understand? Teach me.


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Plstic said:


> Move to the midwest so you don't have to deal with the east coast and west coast bullshit. Midcoast is where it's at :^).


You even have the great lakes for beaches!


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## Kevinpuerta (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> None of us non-Americans are saying it's Trump that is making it bad to live there. The low minimum wage, no national healthcare, number of guns are why. Nothing to do with Trump (he would be struggling to get through any really bad policy because of all the people that it would have to go through.... Right? All he is doing is looking very silly until his term runs out or he gets impeached?)



Im just asking why everyones being so negative


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

Kevinpuerta said:


> Im just asking why everyones being so negative


I'm sorry. OP can live there if he wants. I can understand identifying with the culture and not caring about all that other stuff.


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## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> What things don't I understand? Teach me.


"Durr, gun are scary!  America is so dangerous and no one should ever want to live there!"
"Durr, minimum wage is too low. I can't live a life of luxury from flipping burgers!  No one should ever want to live there!"
"Durr, health insurance isn't paid through insanely high taxes and instead you have lower taxes and privatized insurance?  I don't know what all that means, but I'm fairly certain it means no one should ever want to live there.  Durrrrrrr"


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## CMDreamer (Aug 3, 2017)

Yepi69 said:


> Call it stupid, I call it curiosity.
> Although me and BF are practically forbidden for going there because Trump's an ass
> 
> Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk





slaphappygamer said:


> dont let that asshole stop you. He'll be gone soon.



I agree Trump's as ass...
But sadly, when that ass got the presidence, it wasn't him who won, it was all that hate, division and racism among all United States of America's citizens (I'm American, even though I don't live and wasn't born in that country) against anything and anyone that were diferent. Even when that ass leaves the presidence and someone else take his place, all that hate, division and racism will persist. Because Trump just appeared to make it more public and in a very stupid way, "politically correct". And that`s something that sadly will prevail after that ass are long gone.

As long as that ass is the president I wouldn't want to live in that country. It used to be a really nice place to live in but not anymore.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> None of us non-Americans are saying it's Trump that is making it bad to live there.


No, but there are plenty of people who live in and outside of the US who are bitterly asshurt that Clinton didn't win the election and blame everything bad on that fact alone. Both sides are never satisfied whoever wins, someone always finds flaws in the POTUS.



Quantumcat said:


> The low minimum wage, no national healthcare, number of guns are why.



Counterargument: Guns are only as dangerous as the people who own them. The same argument can be said of knifes, sure they can be used in a kitchen, but they can be used as a weapon.
You place a ban to prevent gun or knife ownership, and only lawbreakers will find illicit means of obtaining them. People shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of dumbass criminals.

As for free healthcare: The US is too big of an infrastructure for it, and it's not truly "free" because Obamacare has cost the economy nearly 1 trillion US dollars, and with any country with free
healthcare, the quality of the care given goes down. I would love to hear an instance where one country with socialized medicine is truly top notch and high quality, with little to no wait time
in hospital waiting rooms.

The other problem with Obamacare is that those who are underemployed get royally raped right in the arse, because if you don't pay for "free" healthcare, you get a 600 dollar fine. Gee, that's
really fair for those people who are getting only 10 hours a week at their jobs thanks to their bosses. How is that fair again? People use the argument "Car insurance is required if you have a car, why not health insurance?" Well, there's a flaw, it's not federal law to own a car, so therefore you don't need insurance.

I wouldn't mind Obamacare if they removed that bedamned penalty. If they get rid of that, I wouldn't hate it as much as I do, I'm all for universal healthcare, but the way it's going about in the US is a bloody joke.

These are only my opinions, I'm not passing these off as being factually correct, etc, if people don't like the way they're presented, then I have nothing further to say on it.

What I find hilarious is people thinking that Clinton would've been better, we don't know that for sure and is only an guess. If she's anything like her husband was when he was POTUS, I'd rather lick a toilet seat. She was a proponent of that stupid-ass TPP, which would've screwed many internet users' rights over.



Quantumcat said:


> Nothing to do with Trump (he would be struggling to get through any really bad policy because of all the people that it would have to go through.... Right? All he is doing is looking very silly until his term runs out or he gets impeached?)



People wanted Obama impeached, everyone wanted a POTUS impeached at one point or another, like Bill Clinton, he was supposedly impeached but never got removed from office. It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation.

If people want to hate my guts for voicing my opinions for being too "controversial", so be it.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Counterargument: Guns are only as dangerous as the people who own them. The same argument can be said of knifes, sure they can be used in a kitchen, but they can be used as a weapon.
> You place a ban to prevent gun or knife ownership, and only lawbreakers will find illicit means of obtaining them. People shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of dumbass criminals.


Guns are only as dangerous as the people who own them. The problem is the law is quite relaxed in the United States with regard to allowing people who shouldn't have guns to have guns.



the_randomizer said:


> As for free healthcare: The US is too big of an infrastructure for it, and it's not truly "free" because Obamacare has cost the economy nearly 1 trillion US dollars, and with any country with free healthcare, the quality of the care given goes down. I would love to hear an instance where one country with socialized medicine is truly top notch and high quality, with little to no wait time in hospital waiting rooms.


You're complaining about health care costs, but one of the reasons it costs so much is because we decided to allow health insurance companies to act as a for-profit middleman. Taking out the for-profit middleman would bring down costs, which is one of the many reasons why a Medicare-for-all system is superior to what we have. There's also no correlation between greater access to healthcare and the quality of care going down. The quality of care in the United States isn't that dissimilar from the quality of care in other countries.



the_randomizer said:


> The other problem with Obamacare is that those who are underemployed get royally raped right in the arse, because if you don't pay for "free" healthcare, you get a 600 dollar fine. Gee, that's really fair for those people who are getting only 10 hours a week at their jobs thanks to their bosses. How is that fair again? People use the argument "Car insurance is required if you have a car, why not health insurance?" Well, there's a flaw, it's not federal law to own a car, so therefore you don't need insurance.
> 
> I wouldn't mind Obamacare if they removed that bedamned penalty. If they get rid of that, I wouldn't hate it as much as I do, I'm all for universal healthcare, but the way it's going about in the US is a bloody joke.


That's a necessary evil of keeping around the for-profit insurance companies. Without the mandate, healthy people (particularly young people) don't buy health insurance, which raises costs on those who do. With the destruction of pre-existing conditions, people are also less likely to buy insurance until they a.) have medical reasons to do so, or b.) have a mandate. Without the mandate, costs go up. When costs go up, more people leave the pool. When more people leave the pool, costs go up even more.

I'm not defending the for-profit insurance companies that are allowed to exist under Obamacare (they should have been destroyed), but we if start with the premise that this is how the system will work, the mandate is required.



the_randomizer said:


> People wanted Obama impeached, everyone wanted a POTUS impeached at one point or another, like Bill Clinton, he was supposedly impeached but never got removed from office. It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation.


The difference between Trump and Obama is whether or not the President did anything worth being impeached over. Obama did not break any laws. Best case scenario for Trump, he demonstrably obstructed justice. Worst case scenario for Trump, he colluded with Russia. That's the difference.


----------



## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> "Durr, gun are scary!  America is so dangerous and no one should ever want to live there!"
> "Durr, minimum wage is too low. I can't live a life of luxury from flipping burgers!  No one should ever want to live there!"
> "Durr, health insurance isn't paid through insanely high taxes and instead you have lower taxes and privatized insurance?  I don't know what all that means, but I'm fairly certain it means no one should ever want to live there.  Durrrrrrr"


Just because you add "durrrr" to things doesn't make them false or true. Guns ARE scary. There are way more massacres because of them (we used to have as many massacres as the US, then after Port Arthur in 1996 our prime minister brought in tougher gun laws and we have had none since) and police are cornered into being brutal because of the large risk anyone they interact with could have a gun and would feel to qualms about shooting them. I used to think maybe there was something wrong with all American policemen or maybe the system was bad somehow, every time I saw on the news that yet another American policeman shoot an innocent bystander. But someone pointed out what it is like from a policeman's point of view and now I sympathise.

Having no public system to fall back on is awful. If you can't afford health insurance, you could die from a treatable illness. Not to mention, there is very little regulation so hospitals and drug manufacturers can charge what they like. Here, we have a system called the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Certain drugs are placed on it (ones that have proven to be very effective and safe, and needed by a large number of people) and it means that people can buy them at a capped price with the government paying the remainder. This way everyone has access to life saving medication no matter what their circumstances. The government negotiates prices so the drug companies can't charge too much, if they want their drug on the Scheme (which they do, because then you get an insane number of sales). In the US, the government lacks that buying power - it can tell drug companies that they would like them to only charge a certain amount but they would just laugh. Very few people have access to the US' equivalent (Medicare drug benefit D), only the disabled and elderly, and even then they have to pay for it. So the government has no power to stop them charging ludicrous amounts of money for stuff people need to stay alive. In fact, the government doesn't even negotiate with them as a whole, it makes each insurance company providing the Medicare benefit D negotiate with the drug companies individually. And how do you think a little company facing a massive drug conglomeration is going to fare? Quite badly - therefore very expensive drugs. Capitalism doesn't work with medicine - how much is your life worth? You can't just choose not to buy it because it is too expensive. Capitalism works when people can choose not to buy your stuff if you charge too much, so you are forced to charge less if you want sales. But medicine can be "worth" infinity $ since we are talking about your life.
In terms of hospitals, here, there is a set benefit paid per item number. Hospitals can charge more if they wish, but people can always choose a public hospital that only charges the set benefit (so free for the patient) or their insurance provider can direct them to go to a private hospital that charges a lower amount over. This keeps hospital prices at an acceptable level, plus someone who can't afford any insurance can still be treated, they might just have to go on a waiting list or be in a large shared room. In the US, with no free services for people to fall back on, hospitals can charge what they want because the alternative is death.

Minimum wage being low should concern everyone. Not just because those working full time on minimum wage would be living in abject misery (have some compassion for your fellow countrymen!) but also because they can't afford to be spending much which makes businesses suffer. It is a bit of a vicious cycle - you reduce prices (in a business that low income earners tend to spend at, say fast food or a grocery store), and pay your staff less, and they in turn have less disposable income and spend less in your shops.  Increasing the minimum wage (very slowly and gently) would mean more business for those stores and they could afford those wages without losing money overall. If they can be clever about it they can even benefit from the increased spending power of the poor without their wage bill going up too much - and profit from the whole thing. It would also increase pressure on the higher paid workers - not the rich ones but the ones just below middle class), because they would complain about getting minimum wage and would want to still be a little above the ones really at the bottom. This would push the middle class up a tiny bit, and then people above them would hardly move at all, then the slightly rich would probably not move, with the actual rich not really noticing the whole affair. It benefits everyone, not just the actual poor who are getting a massive boost to their pay packet.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

For people wondering one of the reasons why healthcare is so expensive:


----------



## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 3, 2017)

Or 


Beerus said:


> the US is nice alot of scenery and places to see  just dont go to a sketchy area like Detroit  u should be fine tbh
> 
> 
> 
> CANADA IS STILL BETER THO just saying


Or Chicago

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Quantumcat said:


> None of us non-Americans are saying it's Trump that is making it bad to live there. The low minimum wage, no national healthcare, number of guns are why. Nothing to do with Trump (he would be struggling to get through any really bad policy because of all the people that it would have to go through.... Right? All he is doing is looking very silly until his term runs out or he gets impeached?)


Depending on where you live the minimum wage can probably support 6 people and it's supposed to support 3 to 4 so it's not very low


----------



## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Counterargument: Guns are only as dangerous as the people who own them. The same argument can be said of knifes, sure they can be used in a kitchen, but they can be used as a weapon.
> You place a ban to prevent gun or knife ownership, and only lawbreakers will find illicit means of obtaining them. People shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of dumbass criminals.


Why did our overall crime levels go down after we got tough gun laws in 1996? And why did we have no more massacres when we previously had 1-3 a year? Removing guns out of the system makes it a lot harder to commit crime, or kill people accidentally. Your argument is one from emotion rather than facts.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Why did our overall crime levels go down after we got tough gun laws in 1996? And why did we have no more massacres when we previously had 1-3 a year? Removing guns out of the system makes it a lot harder to commit crime, or kill people accidentally. Your argument is one from emotion rather than facts.


While it does keep guns out of some criminals hands, most of them (especially here in the states) still are going to get their hands on illegal guns, same goes for terrorists. If they can easily sneak drugs over the border, then why couldn't they smuggle guns and ammo? And also have you ever considered the flip side of the coin, that there are people who actually carry guns for self protection or recreation? There are numerous incidents where crime has been stopped by good people who used their gun to stop the criminals, but you never hear of them. Why? Because our media's always too busy trying to dig up every cop shooting they can find and act like guns are the problem, not the people behind them.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> While it does keep guns out of some criminals hands, most of them (especially here in the states) still are going to get their hands on illegal guns, same goes for terrorists. If they can easily sneak drugs over the border, then why couldn't they smuggle guns and ammo? And also have you ever considered the flip side of the coin, that there are people who actually carry guns for self protection or recreation? There are numerous incidents where crime has been stopped by good people who used their gun to stop the criminals, but you never hear of them. Why? Because our media's always too busy trying to dig up every cop shooting they can find and act like guns are the problem, not the people behind them.


The data is clear that gun restrictions reduce gun violence. As for criminals and terrorists getting their hands on illegal guns, there's no need for that in the United States when we make it so easy for them to get them legally. We have loopholes that allow people to get guns without background checks, and we don't ban people on the terrorist watchlist from being able to buy guns legally. In fact, Al Qaeda once urged people to buy guns in the United States because it was so easy for them to do so.


----------



## GhostLatte (Aug 3, 2017)

It's sad to see that liberals are still whining over Trump's victory. The United States is a great country despite it having flaws. No country is perfect, but America certainly is a lot better than other countries.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

GhostLatte said:


> It's sad to see that liberals are still whining over Trump's victory. The United States is a great country despite it having flaws.


Can you blame liberals for reacting negatively to what Trump and the Republicans have done or tried to do? When people try to kick millions of people off their health insurance, which would cause many people to die, I tend to get upset.



GhostLatte said:


> but America certainly is a lot better than other countries.


Whether or not I agree with you depends on which countries and how.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> The data is clear that gun restrictions reduce gun violence. As for criminals and terrorists getting their hands on illegal guns, there's no need for that in the United States when we make it so easy for them to get them legally. We have loopholes that allow people to get guns without background checks, and we don't ban people on the terrorist watchlist from being able to buy guns legally. In fact, Al Qaeda once urged people to buy guns in the United States because it was so easy for them to do so.


I do agree that in some cases the U.S. is probably too relaxed on gun laws, but if guns were flat out illegal here, terrorists and criminals would still be able to get they're hands on them through the border like they do with drugs, would they not? My whole point is that when you take guns away from the bad guy, they're still going to eventually get their hands on one to kill their victims, but the good guy is probably going to respect the law and not have a gun to protect himself or others.


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## GhostLatte (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> I do agree that in some cases the U.S. is probably too relaxed on gun laws, but if guns were flat out illegal here, terrorists and criminals would still be able to get they're hands on them through the border like they do with drugs, would they not? My whole point is that when you take guns away from the bad guy, they're still going to eventually get their hands on one to kill their victims, but the good guy is probably going to respect the law and not have a gun to protect himself or others.


Liberals don't realize that humans, not guns, kill people.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> I do agree that in some cases the U.S. is probably too relaxed on gun laws, but if guns were flat out illegal here, terrorists and criminals would still be able to get they're hands on them through the border like they do with drugs, would they not? My whole point is that when you take guns away from the bad guy, they're still going to eventually get their hands on one to kill their victims, but the good guy is probably going to respect the law and not have a gun to protect himself or others.


I'm not arguing that they should be flatout illegal. However, if they were flatout illegal, getting them would be much tougher, and although some criminals would still get their hands on them, many who otherwise would have had guns inarguably wouldn't. The number of deaths from gun violence would plummet.



GhostLatte said:


> Liberals don't realize that humans, not guns, kill people.


We do. We also realize that people with guns, not people without guns, are to blame for gun violence. I'm not arguing that guns should be illegal, but some people shouldn't be allowed to have them.

Edit: Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say nuclear weapons were easy to come by. If bad people started obtaining and setting off nuclear weapons, would you say, "Humans, not nuclear weapons, kill people"?


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## evandixon (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Minimum wage being low should concern everyone. Not just because those working full time on minimum wage would be living in abject misery (have some compassion for your fellow countrymen!) but also because they can't afford to be spending much which makes businesses suffer. It is a bit of a vicious cycle - you reduce prices (in a business that low income earners tend to spend at, say fast food or a grocery store), and pay your staff less, and they in turn have less disposable income and spend less in your shops. Increasing the minimum wage (very slowly and gently) would mean more business for those stores and they could afford those wages without losing money overall. If they can be clever about it they can even benefit from the increased spending power of the poor without their wage bill going up too much - and profit from the whole thing. It would also increase pressure on the higher paid workers - not the rich ones but the ones just below middle class), because they would complain about getting minimum wage and would want to still be a little above the ones really at the bottom. This would push the middle class up a tiny bit, and then people above them would hardly move at all, then the slightly rich would probably not move, with the actual rich not really noticing the whole affair. It benefits everyone, not just the actual poor who are getting a massive boost to their pay packet.


Minimum wage is not a good thing at all. After all, the money has to come from somewhere. Potential sources businesses include increasing prices (which decreases business and reduced profits), reducing hours, reducing jobs, or flat out going out of business.

Various sources that agree:
http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/02/minimum-wage-proven-harm-workers-left-support/
http://redalertpolitics.com/2017/08/02/15-minimum-wage-cost-45000-jobs-just-one-county-report/





I have yet to see a source in favor if minimum wage that's based on reality. Posts like this one fail to consider where the money comes from.


----------



## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> I'm not arguing that they should be flatout illegal. However, if they were flatout illegal, getting them would be much tougher, and although some criminals would still get their hands on them, many who otherwise would have had guns inarguably wouldn't. The number of deaths from gun violence would plummet.


If guns were flat out illegal here, criminals would still find ways to kill victims even though gun related violence would go down and keep guns away from people who use them for self defense. Plus have you looked at my point of how easy it would be for them to smuggle thousands of weapons in from South of the border? Smuggling weapons into the US across the border wouldn't be that hard if they can smuggle millions of dollars of drugs across, would it not? Stupid people are still going to find ways to kill their victims anyways, even if it doesn't include guns. What keeps them from using knives or building a bomb? Virtually anything can be used as a weapon if you can figure out how to use it.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Or
> 
> Or Chicago
> 
> ...


The minimum wage is $15,080 per year (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country) but the poverty level for 3 people in a household is $20,090 and for 6 people is $32,570 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States). The minimum wage is 25% less than the *poverty level* for supporting three people.
I found out that in some states it is higher, but even where it is the highest (Portland, Oregon) it is still only $23,400 which is only a little above the poverty level for three people, and less than the poverty level for four ($24,250). Not to mention living in Portland is probably more expensive than in a country town, say.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



evandixon said:


> Minimum wage is not a good thing at all. After all, the money has to come from somewhere. Potential sources businesses include increasing prices (which decreases business and reduced profits), reducing hours, reducing jobs, or flat out going out of business.
> 
> Various sources that agree:
> http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/02/minimum-wage-proven-harm-workers-left-support/
> ...



Did you understand what I meant when I talked about how increasing the minimum wage means that businesses do more business, and can therefore afford to pay people more? The increase has to be done very slowly (you can't make businesses have to pay double for staff for the period of time where those staff start accumulating money, before they start spending it). How do you explain us having a minimum wage of $19 (around $14 US) and yet little businesses do quite fine? You are just missing half of the equation (as are those YouTube videos).


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

evandixon said:


> Minimum wage is not a good thing at all. After all, the money has to come from somewhere. Potential sources businesses include increasing prices (which decreases business and reduced profits), reducing hours, reducing jobs, or flat out going out of business.
> 
> Various sources that agree:
> http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/02/minimum-wage-proven-harm-workers-left-support/
> ...


It's been demonstrated time and time again that an increased minimum wage does not decrease available jobs. In many cases, an increased minimum wage has also lead to an increase in employment, not a decrease. A business hires the fewest number of employees it needs to be maximally profitable. If the amount of money an employee makes for a business outweighs the increase in the wage, then no jobs are lost. When poorer individuals make more money, they also tend to spend it, which also increases demand for business and stimulates the economy. As much data as there is, particularly in recent years, this is hardly controversial anymore.



rileysrjay said:


> If guns were flat out illegal here, criminals would still find ways to kill victims even though gun related violence would go down and keep guns away from people who use them for self defense. Plus have you looked at my point of how easy it would be for them to smuggle thousands of weapons in from South of the border? Smuggling weapons into the US across the border wouldn't be that hard if they can smuggle millions of dollars of drugs across, would it not? Stupid people are still going to find ways to kill their victims anyways, even if it doesn't include guns. What keeps them from using knives or building a bomb? Virtually anything can be used as a weapon if you can figure out how to use it.


Just looking at the numbers, guns can kill a lot more people than knives. I would much rather people used knives. With regard to your point about bombs, should that mean bombs should be legal?


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Just because you add "durrrr" to things doesn't make them false or true. Guns ARE scary. There are way more massacres because of them (we used to have as many massacres as the US, then after Port Arthur in 1996 our prime minister brought in tougher gun laws and we have had none since) and police are cornered into being brutal because of the large risk anyone they interact with could have a gun and would feel to qualms about shooting them. I used to think maybe there was something wrong with all American policemen or maybe the system was bad somehow, every time I saw on the news that yet another American policeman shoot an innocent bystander. But someone pointed out what it is like from a policeman's point of view and now I sympathise.
> 
> Having no public system to fall back on is awful. If you can't afford health insurance, you could die from a treatable illness. Not to mention, there is very little regulation so hospitals and drug manufacturers can charge what they like. Here, we have a system called the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Certain drugs are placed on it (ones that have proven to be very effective and safe, and needed by a large number of people) and it means that people can buy them at a capped price with the government paying the remainder. This way everyone has access to life saving medication no matter what their circumstances. The government negotiates prices so the drug companies can't charge too much, if they want their drug on the Scheme (which they do, because then you get an insane number of sales). In the US, the government lacks that buying power - it can tell drug companies that they would like them to only charge a certain amount but they would just laugh. Very few people have access to the US' equivalent (Medicare drug benefit D), only the disabled and elderly, and even then they have to pay for it. So the government has no power to stop them charging ludicrous amounts of money for stuff people need to stay alive. In fact, the government doesn't even negotiate with them as a whole, it makes each insurance company providing the Medicare benefit D negotiate with the drug companies individually. And how do you think a little company facing a massive drug conglomeration is going to fare? Quite badly - therefore very expensive drugs. Capitalism doesn't work with medicine - how much is your life worth? You can't just choose not to buy it because it is too expensive. Capitalism works when people can choose not to buy your stuff if you charge too much, so you are forced to charge less if you want sales. But medicine can be "worth" infinity $ since we are talking about your life.
> In terms of hospitals, here, there is a set benefit paid per item number. Hospitals can charge more if they wish, but people can always choose a public hospital that only charges the set benefit (so free for the patient) or their insurance provider can direct them to go to a private hospital that charges a lower amount over. This keeps hospital prices at an acceptable level, plus someone who can't afford any insurance can still be treated, they might just have to go on a waiting list or be in a large shared room. In the US, with no free services for people to fall back on, hospitals can charge what they want because the alternative is death.
> ...



You don't get guns, so you think they're scary and America is therefore dangerous.  Guess what?  America is not, in fact, particularly dangerous.  And it is a huge country with a lot of options of where to live with varying degrees of safety.  Having legal gun ownership does not make America inherently dangerous, and in fact most of the places with the strictest gun control laws are the most dangerous parts of America.  All that aside, it's a personal choice whether you want to live in a country with legal gun ownership, not a matter of "country X is better than country Y because of this criterion that is objectively superior"

Healthcare: Again, not a perfect system, and neither is socialized medicine.  It's a fucking complicated subject that can't be reduced to "capitalism bad, socialism good".  Who do you think is going to dump billions of dollars into research into new medicines if they aren't going to make a profit?  Furthermore, I do not trust the government to run healthcare.  The fewer things I have to rely on the government for, the better, as the more things you rely on it for, the more they can control you.  You want to rely on government handouts?  Be my guest, but it is not the objectively correct solution.

Minimum wage?  Again, take a course on economics.  Furthermore, realize that the US is, again, a big fucking country.  Cost of living in bum-fuck Wyoming is far different from the cost of living in New York City.  Having a singular national minimum wage that covers both is pretty fucking stupid.  Added to that, minimum wages bring unemployment; more expensive it is to hire people, the less of them you hire.  It doesn't just magically make everyone richer.  And again, learn a trade and get a real job and you won't bemoan "low" minimum wages.  Hardly a reason to avoid coming to America.  Especially considering we get so many immigrants more than happy to work under the minimum wage.


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## evandixon (Aug 3, 2017)

@Quantumcat and @Lacius: I have not seen any sources that say that, and the many sources I have found say the opposite. Would you mind sharing your sources?


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

evandixon said:


> @Quantumcat and @Lacius: I have not seen any sources that say that, and the many sources I have found say the opposite. Would you mind sharing your sources?


Which part for?


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> It's been demonstrated time and time again that an increased minimum wage does not decrease available jobs. In many cases, an increased minimum wage has also lead to an increase in employment, not a decrease. A business hires the fewest number of employees it needs to be maximally profitable. If the amount of money an employee makes for a business outweighs the increase in the wage, then no jobs are lost. When poorer individuals make more money, they also tend to spend it, which also increases demand for business and stimulates the economy. As much data as there is, particularly in recent years, this is hardly controversial anymore.
> 
> 
> Just looking at the numbers, guns can kill a lot more people than knives. I would much rather people used knives. With regard to your point about bombs, should that mean bombs should be legal?


How in the world did you get bombs should be legal out of my post? I was saying that stupid people, criminals, terrorists, etc. Are going to find ways to kill their victims (via knives, bombs, even rocks) anyways if they don't have guns and the average Joe won't have a good way to protect himself from them. Also this whole argument is off topic (including the health care and minimum wage ones), we should probably move this elsewhere or preferably just stop before this becomes twenty pages long as I doubt we'll change each other's minds.


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## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Also this whole argument is off topic (including the health care and minimum wage ones), we should probably move this elsewhere or preferably just stop before this becomes twenty pages long as I doubt we'll change each other's minds.


Agreed, none of this bullshit ever belonged in this thread.


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## Tekniquez (Aug 3, 2017)

the US sucks. trust me you dont want to be here, if i had the means id up and leave asap and thats the honest truth, these PIGS(cops) run around like its the wild west shooting up anything and everything.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> You don't get guns, so you think they're scary and America is therefore dangerous.  Guess what?  America is not, in fact, particularly dangerous.  And it is a huge country with a lot of options of where to live with varying degrees of safety.  Having legal gun ownership does not make America inherently dangerous, and in fact most of the places with the strictest gun control laws are the most dangerous parts of America.  All that aside, it's a personal choice whether you want to live in a country with legal gun ownership, not a matter of "country X is better than country Y because of this criterion that is objectively superior"


Gun violence is much worse here than in a lot of other countries.



grossaffe said:


> Healthcare: Again, not a perfect system, and neither is socialized medicine.  It's a fucking complicated subject that can't be reduced to "capitalism bad, socialism good".  Who do you think is going to dump billions of dollars into research into new medicines if they going to make a profit?  Furthermore, I do not trust the government to run healthcare.  The fewer things I have to rely on the government for, the better, as the more things you rely on it for, the more they can control you.  You want to rely on government handouts?  Be my guest, but it is not the objectively correct solution.


Socialized medicine isn't perfect, but it's objectively many times better than a private insurance market. Research into new medicines is still going to happen, because it's still going to be profitable.



grossaffe said:


> Minimum wage?  Again, take a course on economics.  Furthermore, realize that the US is, again, a big fucking country.  Cost of living in bum-fuck Wyoming is far different from the cost of living in New York City.  Having a singular national minimum wage that covers both is pretty fucking stupid.  Added to that, minimum wages bring unemployment; more expensive it is to hire people, the less of them you hire.  It doesn't just magically make everyone richer.  And again, learn a trade and get a real job and you won't bemoan "low" minimum wages.  Hardly a reason to avoid coming to America.  Especially considering we get so many immigrants more than happy to work under the minimum wage.


Higher minimum wage is not correlated with higher unemployment for the reasons I listed above. The current national minimum wage is a joke, regardless of which state one lives in. Ideally, we'd have a national living wage, and places like Wyoming and New York could add to it as they see fit. A higher minimum wage benefits everyone, not just the people making that wage. First, it stimulates the economy. Second, if a minimum wage is higher, then wages for "real jobs" will also go up if they have to compete with the minimum wage. By having a low minimum wage, everyone suffers, whether it's because of a stagnant economy, or because "real job" wages are proportionately lower. That's not even to mention the morality of making sure people who work full time don't live in poverty.



evandixon said:


> @Quantumcat and @Lacius: I have not seen any sources that say that, and the many sources I have found say the opposite. Would you mind sharing your sources?


This would be the part of the conversation where I would link to three sources, but if you haven't seen "any sources" that say that, then I don't believe you're being honest in your research.



rileysrjay said:


> How in the world did you get bombs should be legal out of my post? I was saying that stupid people, criminals, terrorists, etc. Are going to find ways to kill their victims (via knives, bombs, even rocks) anyways if they don't have guns and the average Joe won't have a good way to protect himself from them. Also this whole argument is off topic (including the health care and minimum wage ones), we should probably move this elsewhere or preferably just stop before this becomes twenty pages long as I doubt we'll change each other's minds.


I didn't say bombs should be legal. I'm demonstrating how the "if guns are illegal, some criminals are just going to find ways to get them anyway" argument is absurd. By that logic, there's no reason for bombs to be illegal.


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Tekniquez said:


> the US sucks. trust me you dont want to be here, if i had the means id up and leave asap and thats the honest truth, these PIGS(cops) run around like its the wild west shooting up anything and everything.


1) the U.S. isn't near as bad as the media makes it out to be, and
2) can we stop the pissing match between ideologies and countries? This is getting pretty ridiculous. If it gets worse I honestly might report this thread to the mods to have them close this.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

For the record, I don't think the United States sucks. A lot of its citizens suck, and our President sucks, but the United States generally doesn't suck. It's not true for everyone, but I'm happy, healthy, and financially pretty well off.

However, I also don't think we're intrinsically the best country. I can't think of anything good that we have that many other countries don't also have. Our social inequalities are quite bad, for example.

According to the World Happiness Report, the United States is #14.


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> I didn't say bombs should be legal. I'm demonstrating how the "if guns are illegal, some criminals are just going to find ways to get them anyway" argument is absurd. By that logic, there's no reason for bombs to be illegal.


I don't think you fully understand my argument and you also took my argument out of context, but oh well. I'm done replying to you at least in this thread as you don't seem to get my whole argument and like I said earlier, this pissing match between us and others is just ridiculous.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 3, 2017)

Tekniquez said:


> the US sucks. trust me you dont want to be here, if i had the means id up and leave asap and thats the honest truth, these PIGS(cops) run around like its the wild west shooting up anything and everything.


I used to think the same thing, but when you think about it from their perspective you can kind of understand why they are like that. If any person you pull over could have a gun, even someone looks even slightly suspicious it's understandable that they would shoot first ask questions later, as they are scared for their own life. Of course this doesn't make it any nicer for the average civilian who calls the cops who then arrive and shoot them due to a misunderstanding, but at least they aren't monsters running around shooting innocents for fun or anything.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> I don't think you fully understand my argument and you also took my argument out of context, but oh well. I'm done replying to you at least in this thread as you don't seem to get my whole argument and like I said earlier, this pissing match between us and others is just ridiculous.


I understand your argument. I disagree with it because we have data with regard to what happens when guns are merely restricted: The number of violent deaths decreases. The idea that something shouldn't be illegal because some people are just going to get that thing anyway is irrelevant to the argument when the illegality is still going to bring down the overall number of deaths and increase the overall wellness of people. Your argument doesn't work any better on guns than it would on bombs.


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

One more comment about guns, health care, minimum wage, or pissing on the u.s. or another country and I'm going to report this thread. I urge others with enough decency to join me also because this whole thread has brought out the worst in some of us IMO.


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> One more comment about guns, health care, minimum wage, or pissing on the u.s. or another country and I'm going to report this thread. I urge others with enough decency to join me also because this whole thread has brought out the worst in some of us IMO.


I haven't read most of the posts in this thread, but it was bound to become a conversation about the United States' flaws and merits, and I feel the posts I've read have been largely civil.


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> I haven't read most of the posts in this thread, but it was bound to become a conversation about the United States' flaws and merits, and I feel the posts I've read have been largely civil.


While Most of the later posts here have been civil and I respect your opinions and others such as @Quantumcat and @grossaffe , a lot of the earlier posts and even a couple of recent posts have basically said the U.S. in particular or country x sucks for no good reason whatsoever. Plus the whole point of this thread originally was to help @Saiyan Lusitano and others find an easy way into the U.S. legally and give him info about laws in various states and different places to consider moving to. Pointing out the flaws of our nation is also a good idea in this thread, but arguing over them continuously for multiple pages instead of just pointing them out and giving different views on them briefly wasn't too good of an idea IMO. If you and others want me to I could create a new thread for us to argue in over the earlier mentioned issues.


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## kindacozi (Aug 3, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I'd love to visit Texas


#Texas4Lyfe


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## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

jaeman109 said:


> #Texas4Lyfe


I enjoyed my time in Texas (San Antonio).  Wish I could have stayed there a bit longer.


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## kindacozi (Aug 3, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> I enjoyed my time in Texas (San Antonio).  Wish I could have stayed there a bit longer.


I live here and it's great


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 3, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Hes only throwing out illegals so as long as you have everything you need you're fine


I'd like to remind you of those tense few days where legal, green card holding citizens who temporarily left the country were denied access to return

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Depending on where you live the minimum wage can probably support 6 people and it's supposed to support 3 to 4 so it's not very low


Where are you referring to? Here it's $7.25 an hour and after taxes + rent that's barely enough for two


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## Ricken (Aug 3, 2017)

Irrelevant topic two cents; USA really grinds my gears, and I don't even have to pay taxes yet.  Our government makes me bang my head on my desk

Relevant topic; Pretty sure you've got all the stuff you'd need to know figured out, from what I've learned in school


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## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 3, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'd like to remind you of those tense few days where legal, green card holding citizens who temporarily left the country were denied access to return


Did they have US passports?


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Did they have US passports?


They had U.S. green cards.


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## Beerus (Aug 3, 2017)

is chicago that bad cus im going there for vacation


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## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> They had U.S. green cards.


Correction to my last question. Did they have a passport at all?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Beerus said:


> is chicago that bad cus im going there for vacation


I've heard from a close friend that it's really bad at night


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## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 3, 2017)

Beerus said:


> is chicago that bad cus im going there for vacation


No, it isn't. Just make sure to bring a bunch of rolls of quarters with you, because you'll see a lot of beggars in the streets downtown

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Correction to my last question. Did they have a passport at all?


That's a requirement for a green card, I believe


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## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 3, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That's a requirement for a green card, I believe


Did they have their passport on them when they wanted to return?


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## Lacius (Aug 3, 2017)

XXXTORTELLINI said:


> Did they have their passport on them when they wanted to return?


The incident being referred to was when the travel ban specifically rejected certain green card holders from reentering the United States, despite having both a green card and a passport.


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## XXXTORTELLINI (Aug 3, 2017)

Lacius said:


> The incident being referred to was when the travel ban specifically rejected certain green card holders from reentering the United States, despite having both a green card and a passport.


Oh


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## Pokem (Aug 3, 2017)

go to japan for anime


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 3, 2017)

So I went through the passes I missed out on and read most of the responses.

US has its flaws but citizens in US are far more safer than they are in Western Europe, for example. Whenever I travel I'm worried that someone will throw acid at me and it really bothers because this is no way of living in the West.



dimmidice said:


> Well this potus made immigration much harder. So yeah, it would definitely be better to move there under a different potus.



I know that to immigrate to US it's now been toughened up but at the same time it has made the country safer so it's a good move overall, imo.



SuperDan said:


> if you like me and don't give a fuck about politics like me just ignore these ass pipes and you will have a great life over here



There is a lot of anti-American hate these days and just damn it, it's very disappointing to see and read such. :-/



rileysrjay said:


> If @Saiyan Lusitano is really serious I would say look at state laws first and then look at geographic location. Also note that some states can have a varied ecosystem, an example being my state of Georgia. It has mountains, plains that go on for miles, the ocean, and even swamps within its borders.



Good point, thank you.

I really am and do realise there's going to be a long road before I can legally be accepted into the US.



Tekniquez said:


> the US sucks. trust me you dont want to be here, if i had the means id up and leave asap and thats the honest truth, these PIGS(cops) run around like its the wild west shooting up anything and everything.



Hey, I'll happily change places with you. 



Pokem said:


> go to japan for anime


Would need to learn Japanese.


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## SuperDan (Aug 3, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> So I went through the passes I missed out on and read most of the responses.
> 
> US has its flaws but citizens in US are far more safer than they are in Western Europe, for example. Whenever I travel I'm worried that someone will throw acid at me and it really bothers because this is no way of living in the West.
> 
> ...


i lived in japan for 14 months and it was great and all really enjoyed my time there .. but after a while you will really miss home ...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 3, 2017)

SuperDan said:


> i lived in japan for 14 months and it was great and all really enjoyed my time there .. but after a while you will really miss home ...


I somewhat miss home but it's not like there is much left there for me, it's generally filled with old folks and time flies like a turtle.


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## SuperDan (Aug 3, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I somewhat miss home but it's not like there is much left there for me, it's generally filled with old folks and time flies like a turtle.


Hahaha just go traveling around the world get bar jobs any jobs ... life is too short to be static ... girls girls lovely new girls ... one day you will have kids like me & that is all over with ... but being a dad is fun and hard ,,


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## rileysrjay (Aug 3, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I somewhat miss home but it's not like there is much left there for me, it's generally filled with old folks and time flies like a turtle.


You should move to Florida then if you love old folks!


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## SuperDan (Aug 3, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> You should move to Florida then if you love old folks!


ahhh the Keys ! LLoLL


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 3, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Would need to learn Japanese.


日本語が簡単だぜ。
Japan is pretty cool, stay away from the huge cities though ( Tokyo for example ). Houses are too expensive.
Smaller cities in there are still huge by my standards so it's okay.


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## SuperDan (Aug 3, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> 日本語が簡単だぜ。
> Japan is pretty cool, stay away from the huge cities though ( Tokyo for example ). Houses are too expensive.
> Smaller cities in there are still huge by my standards so it's okay.


i lived in a tiny village called morioka rent was cheap pretty much like london prices so normal for me .. place was quite small but fine ... but just wait until you want to have a bath in japan !!!!!!!!! there baths are nuts ,, but you get used to them after a while !!!


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## grossaffe (Aug 3, 2017)

SuperDan said:


> but just wait until you want to have a bath in japan !!!!!!!!! there baths are nuts ,, but you get used to them after a while !!!


Do explain.


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 3, 2017)

SuperDan said:


> i lived in a tiny village called morioka rent was cheap pretty much like london prices so normal for me .. place was quite small but fine ... but just wait until you want to have a bath in japan !!!!!!!!! there baths are nuts ,, but you get used to them after a while !!!


Lived in Ebisu for a while and then went to a village "near" Osaka (千早赤阪村), it was very nice there.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 4, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Lived in Ebisu for a while and then went to a village "near" Osaka (千早赤阪村), it was very nice there.



Lived in a few places as part of an internship, one area was called Takasu, a suburb of Hiroshima, and another one I remember was Maizuru, a city of 90,000 in the Kyoto prefecture; what I loved about that were the huge rice fields and old wooden houses in the summer. Man, I miss that place.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 4, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Lived in a few places as part of an internship, one area was called Takasu, a suburb of Hiroshima, and another one I remember was Maizuru, a city of 90,000 in the Kyoto prefecture; what I loved about that were the huge rice fields and old wooden houses in the summer. Man, I miss that place.


That sounds lovely! I'd love to live in Japan one day.


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## dimmidice (Aug 4, 2017)

Relevant.


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## SuperDan (Aug 4, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Lived in Ebisu for a while and then went to a village "near" Osaka (千早赤阪村), it was very nice there.


i fell in love with morika and its people i so nearly got married there ... but if u get married in japan u have to give up you nationality so if i went home i would be a tourist  so i didnt in the end but the Japanese girls treated me like a god and the guys i new became very very good friends i miss them all


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 4, 2017)

CMDreamer said:


> I agree Trump's as ass...
> But sadly, when that ass got the presidence, it wasn't him who won, it was all that hate, division and racism among all United States of America's citizens (I'm American, even though I don't live and wasn't born in that country) against anything and anyone that were diferent. Even when that ass leaves the presidence and someone else take his place, all that hate, division and racism will persist. Because Trump just appeared to make it more public and in a very stupid way, "politically correct". And that`s something that sadly will prevail after that ass are long gone.
> 
> As long as that ass is the president I wouldn't want to live in that country. It used to be a really nice place to live in but not anymore.



The hate and division isn't there because of Trump. The Clintons and the left are the one who create that divide. 
Stop with your political correctness and "MUH FEELINGS" bullshit, you're weak, the left made you weak and unfortunately because of people like you, America almost turned into pussyland. 

Trump 2020.


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## CMDreamer (Aug 4, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> The hate and division isn't there because of Trump. The Clintons and the left are the one who create that divide.
> Stop with your political correctness and "MUH FEELINGS" bullshit, you're weak, the left made you weak and unfortunately because of people like you, America almost turned into pussyland.
> 
> Trump 2020.



You can't read properly... I never stated that, that ass created/invented hate, division and racism. I actually stated the opposite. When that ass used hate, division and racism on his political campaign, he just made it more public and "politically correct". Hate, division and racism is something that exists in every single country (even more when that country's inhabitants are from so varied human races), but most of the time it's hidden from public and even more from politics when someone that can be seen as a minority representative is on a high-level political/public charge. That's what happened when Obama was your president.

Sadly most of the time people tend to forget history, and keep making the very same mistakes again and again.

Please learn to read and interpret the texts before your eyes, and try (at least) to come with a valid opinion afterwards.

No more answers from me.


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## leonmagnus99 (Aug 4, 2017)

england is my city.

i live in a very hot place, i wish i lived somewhere in europe instead of this hellish boring/hot mid east.

(oh and btw. those prerequirements are alot, i think to get japanese citizenship is even harder than the u.s one).


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## nastys (Aug 4, 2017)

If you want to live there temporarily (up to 6 years) and have a job offer, you can get an H-1B visa. If you want to become a Permanent Resident, you have a few options:

win the Diversity Visa lottery (you need at least a high school diploma or equivalent to apply)

marry a U.S. citizen or Permanent Resident (in good faith)
become a famous or highly skilled person
have at least a 4-year Bachelor's degree or equivalent (or a 3-year one plus 3 years of work experience in a related field) a job offer or an H-1B visa (if your employer is willing to sponsor you)
invest at least $500.000
have a sibling (who must be a citizen) or a parent (who must be a Permanent Resident or a citizen if you are <21 and not married, or a citizen if you are >21 years old or married) sponsor you
there are a few other ways to obtain a Green Card
Note that you cannot not get a temporary visa (except H-1B or K-1) with the intention of becoming a Permanent Resident. If you manage to become one, stay in the country for at least 6 months in 1 year or you may lose your Permanent Resident status (you can get a permit that allows you to stay out of the country for up to 2 years while keeping your Permanent Resident status). If you immigrate through marriage or investment, you will become a Conditional Permanent Resident for 2 years and you'll have to remove the condition before your status expires.
Also, while if your Green Card expires after 10 years, your Permanent Resident status doesn't. You'll have to *keep the Green Card with you at all times*. If the Green Card expires or you lose it, you can renew it. Also, be sure to sign up for the Selective Services if you have to, and don't forget to request your Social Security card during your interview, if possible. You can request it later, but until you actually receive it you won't be able to work.
If you want to get rid of your Green Card or want to vote or access to all jobs, you can apply for naturalization after 5 years (3 if you became a Permanent Resident through marriage) if you meet certain requirements.

Always tell the truth during all interviews. If you become a citizen but they later find out you lied during your interview, you may lose your citizenship.
Also, DO NOT COMMIT ANY CRIME or you might get temporarily (or permanently) barred from citizenship. Also, if you commit crimes like murder, rape, theft, etc... you may lose your Permanent Resident status forever and you won't be able to apply for another Green Card.

And yes, I would like to move there too. While I do believe some U.S. citizens don't like where they live, every state is different: there are 50 states to choose from. I really, really want to have my own house in a quiet place, a decently paid job, fast Internet and the latest and greatest technology (which sometimes arrives late in my country and it's hardly affordable here anyway).

I do not care about Trump, as long as he doesn't suspend my Permanent Resident status (if I manage to get it anyway), but it seems he's only interested in suspending Green Cards of people from "State Sponsors of Terrorism Countries". If he manages to get his bill approved, though, the DV lottery would be cancelled.

Assuming you only have a high school diploma, you should definitely *apply for the next DV lottery*, IF you want to move there indefinitely (otherwise just go for a temporary visa and leave this chance to other people who really want to live there).

EDIT: both Permanent Residents and citizens are taxed based on their worldwide income. This also means that if you become a U.S. citizen and move to another country, you will still have to pay your taxes. Also, if you want to become a U.S. citizen, check whether your county lets you retain your current citizenship. Note that if are already a U.S. citizen and became a citizen of another country, you lose your U.S. citizenship. Also, all U.S. citizens (including dual nationals) must enter the U.S. using their U.S. passport. Citizens have the _right_ to live and work in their country, while being a Permanent Resident is a _privilege_.


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## dimmidice (Aug 4, 2017)

nastys said:


> Also, DO NOT COMMIT ANY CRIME or you might get temporarily (or permanently) barred from citizenship. Also, if you commit crimes like murder, rape, theft, etc... you may lose your Permanent Resident status forever and you won't be able to apply for another Green Card.


The way you wrote that is really really bizarre. Like i get what you mean. But it's like "don't do this until you're a full citizen" hah


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## nastys (Aug 4, 2017)

dimmidice said:


> The way you wrote that is really really bizarre. Like i get what you mean. But it's like "don't do this until you're a full citizen" hah


Well, I don't know about you but if I had a Green Card, I wouldn't take any chances


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 4, 2017)

nastys said:


> Also, DO NOT COMMIT ANY CRIME or you might get temporarily (or permanently) barred from citizenship. Also, if you commit crimes like murder, rape, theft, etc...



Thanks for the detailed post but um, I get what you mean by mentioning this though I've never been arrested or committed a crime. 

No one in their good sense would do any of those atrocious acts.


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## nastys (Aug 4, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Thanks for the detailed post but um, I get what you mean by mentioning this though I've never been arrested or committed a crime.
> 
> No one in their good sense would do any of those atrocious acts.


Hopefully, since they will probably ask you if you have commited any crimes for which you _haven't_ been arrested. You can't lie, remember...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 4, 2017)

nastys said:


> Hopefully, since they will probably ask you if you have commited any crimes for which you _haven't_ been arrested. You can't lie, remember...


Well, to be honest, I was actually arrested several times.. GTA.


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## nastys (Aug 4, 2017)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Well, to be honest, I was actually arrested several times.. GTA.


I don't think it will cause any trouble, unless it's a pirate copy of GTA


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 4, 2017)

CMDreamer said:


> You can't read properly... I never stated that, that ass created/invented hate, division and racism. I actually stated the opposite. When that ass used hate, division and racism on his political campaign, he just made it more public and "politically correct". Hate, division and racism is something that exists in every single country (even more when that country's inhabitants are from so varied human races), but most of the time it's hidden from public and even more from politics when someone that can be seen as a minority representative is on a high-level political/public charge. That's what happened when Obama was your president.
> 
> Sadly most of the time people tend to forget history, and keep making the very same mistakes again and again.
> 
> ...



Hurr durr, no more answers for me.
How sad, the snowflake won't talk to me anymore.

Trump did not use any of those things, you're just a butthurt mexican who was lied to by the media.
Trump doesn't hate you, neither do his supporters. Seek for the truth, stop believing lies and going with the "hate" bullshit narrative.

Obama has never been my president too.

Please stop using "BUT UR DUMB AND CANT READ" as an argument, it makes you look stupid.


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## grossaffe (Aug 4, 2017)

nastys said:


> I don't think it will cause any trouble, unless it's a pirate copy of GTA


Or perhaps it was the actual practice of Grand Theft Auto rather than the game...


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## WeedZ (Aug 5, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> The hate and division isn't there because of Trump. The Clintons and the left are the one who create that divide.
> Stop with your political correctness and "MUH FEELINGS" bullshit, you're weak, the left made you weak and unfortunately because of people like you, America almost turned into pussyland.
> 
> Trump 2020.





CMDreamer said:


> You can't read properly... I never stated that, that ass created/invented hate, division and racism. I actually stated the opposite. When that ass used hate, division and racism on his political campaign, he just made it more public and "politically correct". Hate, division and racism is something that exists in every single country (even more when that country's inhabitants are from so varied human races), but most of the time it's hidden from public and even more from politics when someone that can be seen as a minority representative is on a high-level political/public charge. That's what happened when Obama was your president.
> 
> Sadly most of the time people tend to forget history, and keep making the very same mistakes again and again.
> 
> ...


You're both wrong. If you think a political party or a president can create a social divide or create racism/hatred in citizens then you're naive. The divide comes from a lack of respect for the process at play within our system, and the belief that our ideas are somehow immutable and a part of ourselves, that having an idea be challenged is a personal attack.

The hatred and racism you see in this country was already there. I would argue that even more of it is imagined. We vote for our best representation. People voted for Trump because he represented the interests they already have.

Honestly, I'm tired of people turning everything into a liberal/conservative flamewar. These terms don't even correctly label the groups that use them anymore. It's all bullshit and the largest portion of the population can't put their attention to real problems that need dealt with in this country because their heads are full of useless politics.

If people could see the true oppression (the economic one), they would realize that none of these politicians have our interests at heart and the silly sjw/conservative white knight shit is keeping us dumb and obedient. Fuck.


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## Vipera (Aug 5, 2017)

_This post has been removed due to the staff's corruption to money and other people._


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## Quantumcat (Aug 5, 2017)

Vipera said:


> Maybe all the entitled kids that wrote in this thread saying that you shouldn't get to the US because they don't like their president should actually go to places like South America or Africa to see how life is there.


We weren't comparing it with third world places with civil wars etc. We were comparing it to other first world, peaceful places.


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## Minox (Aug 5, 2017)

SuperDan said:


> i fell in love with morika and its people i so nearly got married there ... but if u get married in japan u have to give up you nationality so if i went home i would be a tourist  so i didnt in the end but the Japanese girls treated me like a god and the guys i new became very very good friends i miss them all


What are you on about? There is absolutely no need to give up your citizenship if you marry someone Japanese. That requirement is only there if you want to become a naturalized citizen, which you absolutely do not need to get a spousal visa.


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## dimmidice (Aug 5, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> "MUH FEELINGS" bullshit, you're weak, the left made you weak and unfortunately because of people like you, America almost turned into pussyland.


The "MUH FEELINGS" bullshit applies to trump far more than any left politicians. He's the weakest president the US has ever had. Constantly whining about people who are mean about him. Constantly lying about his achievements. Constantly getting manipulated by people around him.

Also i think it's sad how you're brazilian but like trump. The people that have been screwing up your country for the last few decades have been a lot like trump. Rich, Corrupt, Power hungry, Selfish. Plus he'd ban all of you poor sods from the US if he could. 

Yet you still support him because you hate SJWs. Which is fair enough, Fuck the whole SJW attitude. But the left isn't SJW. equal rights movement isn't SJW. SJW is just a mindset from some tumblerinas on the internet and in some colleges/universities. Yet trump supporters have been manipulated with ease to associate that small subculture with the entire democratic/left political spectrum. He's made being intelligent, caring, thoughtful bad attributes. While shouting loudly, being angry, and not giving a shit about anyone but yourself are good things.


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## SuperDan (Aug 5, 2017)

Minox said:


> What are you on about? There is absolutely no need to give up your citizenship if you marry someone Japanese. That requirement is only there if you want to become a naturalized citizen, which you absolutely do not need to get a spousal visa.


thats what i was told at the time .. so that is what i be leaved .. in the end it was the best thing to go home ... there was many places to travel to yet .... i was only in my mid 20's then ...


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 5, 2017)

dimmidice said:


> The "MUH FEELINGS" bullshit applies to trump far more than any left politicians. He's the weakest president the US has ever had. Constantly whining about people who are mean about him. Constantly lying about his achievements. Constantly getting manipulated by people around him.
> 
> Also i think it's sad how you're brazilian but like trump. The people that have been screwing up your country for the last few decades have been a lot like trump. Rich, Corrupt, Power hungry, Selfish. Plus he'd ban all of you poor sods from the US if he could.
> 
> Yet you still support him because you hate SJWs. Which is fair enough, Fuck the whole SJW attitude. But the left isn't SJW. equal rights movement isn't SJW. SJW is just a mindset from some tumblerinas on the internet and in some colleges/universities. Yet trump supporters have been manipulated with ease to associate that small subculture with the entire democratic/left political spectrum. He's made being intelligent, caring, thoughtful bad attributes. While shouting loudly, being angry, and not giving a shit about anyone but yourself are good things.



He doesn't do those things. The media ridicules him and makes you believe that he does.

How can I prove that you've been brainwashed? By merely thinking that Trump would hate me.
Trump is NOT a racist xenophobe, that is complete bullshit.
In fact, I'd say that he is the most loved American president in Brazil. It's SAD that you think that, because Trump made me want to go to the USA more than anything else.
And comparing him to our politicians is like comparing an innocent newborn baby to Hitler. You have NO idea whatsoever what real corruption looks like (besides the Clintons). They steal our money every single day and every body knows it, they threw our country into an avalanche of bullshit.
Trump is saving the USA more than anything else, but you're blinded to the truth.
Our next president is going to be a Trump like figure, hated by the media, loved by the people.
With figures skewed to make it seem like he's losing, yet he's still winning, everyone likes him, besides the ones that hate the country.

Nothing I say will change your mind, but if you ever try looking at things from the other side's perspective, you'll see that we are the peaceful ones, we are the ones who wants everything to be alright. Not some socialist globalist pieces of shit who only care about money and use people's vulnerability and stupidity to win their hearts.

The truth is right in front of you, it's time to stop being a fool.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Vipera said:


> Maybe all the entitled kids that wrote in this thread saying that you shouldn't get to the US because they don't like their president should actually go to places like South America or Africa to see how life is there.



Hey, it depends where in South America. 
Some countries are still pretty darn cool.


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## Vipera (Aug 5, 2017)

_This post has been removed due to the staff's corruption to money and other people._


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 5, 2017)

@P

What makes you feel so entitled to preach about life in a country where you don't live to actual inhabitants of said country?
And beware, I am not saying that life in said country is good, bad, worse or better.
I am just asking what makes you believe you know better.

What makes you write things from a position where you think you really know how the world works, when your writing itself makes it evident you are so naive and immature regarding the world?
If you think you know it all, you will never learn new things, you will never improve.

And I don't mean that USA is a bad country, as I said before I have a very positive opinion of it and it's people.
Also I think it has a lot of things to be liked, not just my taste, but sure it is great.
Neither I am talking about Donald Trump, I don't think he is a good politician but neither I think he is the antichrist people make it look like.
It's not about any of those thing... 
I only feel a little Fremdscham because of the arrogance I see in the words, that is not backed up at all by the content.

It is like listening to one of those brainwashed leftist assholes from a Banana republic, not the ones that are doing the stealing and destroying on their own, but the ones that really take to heart what their party taught them, believe in them blindly and just spread the word without thinking further. And I mean it in that aspect, that they don't think it further, so their words are bland as fuck, but they are not open to discussion anyway, no thinking, just believe!


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## SuperDan (Aug 5, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> @P
> 
> What makes you feel so entitled to preach about life in a country where you don't live to actual inhabitants of said country?
> And beware, I am not saying that life in said country is good, bad, worse or better.
> ...


fucking finally !! thats what ive been saying age ago half these people .. aint never even been here ... just hate usa ... because they can .. im from london living here 4.5 years and i love it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 6, 2017)

Vipera said:


> Last time I checked, Brazil is considered to be the "best" of those.



Overall Brazil isn't on the same standard as first world nations, but there are good places. 
Everyone says "South south south, south is best", and while that is true statistically speaking, you can still have fun in the rest of the country as long as you stay out of big cities. 
I live in the south, never been robbed, never seen someone being robbed and don't know anyone who has ever been, I guess this contrasts the image that most foreigners have of us already lol.

But Chile is nice, went there in winter and it was fun.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 6, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Overall Brazil isn't on the same standard as first world nations, but there are good places.
> Everyone says "South south south, south is best", and while that is true statistically speaking, you can still have fun in the rest of the country as long as you stay out of big cities.
> I live in the south, never been robbed, never seen someone being robbed and don't know anyone who has ever been, I guess this contrasts the image that most foreigners have of us already lol.
> 
> But Chile is nice, went there in winter and it was fun.


Have you been to Argentina? My dad is from there but I have never been.


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 7, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Have you been to Argentina? My dad is from there but I have never been.


Yes.
Never been to any big cities because those are quite far from me, but the small towns that I did go to are very nice. The people remind me a lot of brazilians, especially when we ignore the soccer rivalry.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 7, 2017)

Pacheko17 said:


> Yes.
> Never been to any big cities because those are quite far from me, but the small towns that I did go to are very nice. The people remind me a lot of brazilians, especially when we ignore the soccer rivalry.


Great to see you don't bash Argentines just because.
I think the same about Brazilians to be honest, but I had this weird idea you hated Argentines for some reason.


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## Pacheko17 (Aug 7, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Great to see you don't bash Argentines just because.
> I think the same about Brazilians to be honest, but I had this weird idea you hated Argentines for some reason.



Nah mate, I like everyone in southern south america. 
Chile, Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay.
I've had limited contact with people from the other countries but damn, it was pretty bad lol.

If you see me calling an Argentine a boludo, then it's because they called me a boludo first


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## tetrabrik (Aug 14, 2017)

you can't buy a green card. you need to first come to the country in some other non-tourist and non-business visa, and then stay for a couple of years before you get your permanent resident permit (green card).
one way is to get a job (H1B visa) or a get accepted at a university (J/F visas).


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## nastys (Aug 15, 2017)

tetrabrik said:


> you can't buy a green card. you need to first come to the country in some other non-tourist and non-business visa, and then stay for a couple of years before you get your permanent resident permit (green card).
> one way is to get a job (H1B visa) or a get accepted at a university (J/F visas).


You don't have to have a non-immigrant visa before getting a Permanent Resident card. If you have a non-immigrant visa other than H-1B (guest worker) or K-1 (fiancé(e) of a U.S. citizen) and you want to get a Green Card, it may be considered dual intent and you may get it denied. If you have an H-1B visa then your employer can sponsor you for a Permanent Resident card whenever they want.

Also, you can "buy" an EB-5 Permanent Resident card, if you have a lot of money.

As for those "2 years", it only applies if you initially have a Conditional Permanent Resident card (though marriage or investment) and you have to remove the condition before it expires.


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## tetrabrik (Aug 15, 2017)

nastys said:


> Also, you can "buy" an EB-5 Permanent Resident card, if you have a lot of money.



I stand corrected, I had no idea this existed, though I'm not surprised. 

Do you know by chance what the magic $$ number is? Or is it considered on a case by case basis?


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## nastys (Aug 15, 2017)

tetrabrik said:


> I stand corrected, I had no idea this existed, though I'm not surprised.
> 
> Do you know by chance what the magic $$ number is? Or is it considered on a case by case basis?


https://www.uscis.gov/eb-5
https://www.uscis.gov/working-unite...igration-fifth-preference-eb-5/eb-5-investors

$1.000.000,00, or $500.000,00 if you meet certain conditions.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 15, 2017)

nastys said:


> https://www.uscis.gov/eb-5
> https://www.uscis.gov/working-unite...igration-fifth-preference-eb-5/eb-5-investors
> 
> $1.000.000,00, or $500.000,00 if you meet certain conditions.


Great, so under certain conditions you get a big discount, it becomes a bargain. /s


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## nastys (Aug 15, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Great, so under certain conditions you get a big discount, it becomes a bargain. /s


It would still take me tens of years to earn that kind of money.
If Trump's RAISE act got approved, the required amount would increase to 1.350.000,00 and the Diversity Visa lottery would be eliminated, as well as the ability for U.S. citizens to sponsor their immediate relatives (expect spouses and unmarried children under 21).


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