# linux vs windows vs mac,who is the best?



## mariogamer (Aug 18, 2015)

hello everyone!!!

this day I want to ask what is the better OS.please document you if you wana vote!I will do a tutorial on how to install a OS in any system.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 18, 2015)

D) None of the above. 

Do I win? 

There is no "best OS". They're all suited to different purposes and have various pros and cons in multiple areas, there's no objective best OS period.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 18, 2015)

DragonflyBSD.

This thread is bound to generate some useful discussion, it always does.

Anyway best at what? Horses for courses. For desktops -- Windows if you need various programs that only work on Windows (which is a lot), Linux if you can deal with the actually quite nice open source software world and as an added bonus do not wish to worry about viruses as much, Mac if you have a need to display a lot of wealth and still have a Linux like limit on the software you can run.


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## Dax_Fame (Aug 18, 2015)

Every OS sucks, you just have the find the one that sucks the least for what you want to do.

That being said, I dual boot Xubuntu and Windows 10 (soon to roll back to 7). Xubuntu is my default. I can browse, listen to music, and do all I need for work, but if I want to play games (which is a hell of a lot of the time) I boot into Windows... and then leave it up until it either crashes, pisses me off, or... the power goes out?

There is no best overall. One size doesn't fit all.


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## TecXero (Aug 18, 2015)

Depends on what you want. Windows is generally the jack of all trades, master of none. It's the best for gaming still, though more and more games are seeing Linux ports.
Linux... that's not really an OS, more like the bases for an OS that anybody can build upon. So it depends on what distribution you go with and what you want from it. My current gaming PC is running Mint.
As for Mac, I couldn't tell you. It doesn't seem particularly great at anything to me.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 18, 2015)

Very subjective.

Main computer: Windows 10
Other PCs: Linux distros (they're pretty old and weak)

I just don't use Mac OS although I've tried in the past but never really liked it.


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## mariogamer (Aug 18, 2015)

I agree,but me,I think will install linux because it is safer than windows(I have 3 windows,and all buged)


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## Dax_Fame (Aug 18, 2015)

mariogamer said:


> I agree,but me,I think will install linux because it is safer than windows(I have 3 windows,and all buged)


Well... lol... depending on what distro you plan on using and your experience, linux can get bugged... QUITE bugged! Like locked out of your computer after an update bugged. Nothing that can't be fixed with a little know how (and a little google) but it's something you should prepare yourself for.

You learn as you go along and it can be a major pain at times, but I'd say it's worth the journey.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 18, 2015)

TecXero said:


> As for Mac, I couldn't tell you. It doesn't seem particularly great at anything to me.


Generally, OS X is considered "better" at multimedia/image editing than Windows is, or at least it has access to better/easier to use software compared to Windows or Linux. Of course, there are dozens of alternatives on Windows and Linux that are just as good as, say Garageband and the likes, but I guess people just prefer using what they know?


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## TecXero (Aug 18, 2015)

mariogamer said:


> I agree,but me,I think will install linux because it is safer than windows(I have 3 windows,and all buged)


I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you have troubles managing WIndows, you probably won't have better luck on any Linux distro. Even Ubuntu I'd be tentative of, and Ubuntu is supposed to be the most user friendly.


Tom Bombadildo said:


> Generally, OS X is considered "better" at multimedia/image editing than Windows is, or at least it has access to better/easier to use software compared to Windows or Linux. Of course, there are dozens of alternatives on Windows and Linux that are just as good as, say Garageband and the likes, but I guess people just prefer using what they know?


Oh yeah. I thought at this point, that perceived advantage had died off.


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## guitarheroknight (Aug 18, 2015)

Windows for gaming, Mac for everything else. Its a shame that the Mac OS gets so little gaming attention


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## VinsCool (Aug 19, 2015)

Any OS is good. It's personal preference.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 19, 2015)

Dax_Fame said:


> Well... lol... depending on what distro you plan on using and your experience, linux can get bugged... QUITE bugged! Like locked out of your computer after an update bugged. Nothing that can't be fixed with a little know how (and a little google) but it's something you should prepare yourself for.
> 
> You learn as you go along and it can be a major pain at times, but I'd say it's worth the journey.


I really like Elementary OS but when you type fast and go turn on and off the caps lock it doesn't react instantly so it could appear as "TEch" than "Tech". It's an annoying thing about it that they haven't fixed it even on the latest version.


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## Arras (Aug 19, 2015)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Generally, OS X is considered "better" at multimedia/image editing than Windows is, or at least it has access to better/easier to use software compared to Windows or Linux. Of course, there are dozens of alternatives on Windows and Linux that are just as good as, say Garageband and the likes, but I guess people just prefer using what they know?


I thought that was mostly an old thing that used to be true, but isn't really anymore?


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 19, 2015)

Arras said:


> I thought that was mostly an old thing that used to be true, but isn't really anymore?


I'm not 100% sure myself, because I don't really do much video editing or anything, but that's usually what I hear from my artist friends/musicians, they all swear by OS X for whatever reason.


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## TecXero (Aug 19, 2015)

Arras said:


> I thought that was mostly an old thing that used to be true, but isn't really anymore?


Maybe there's an API or something that makes it slightly better, but the main thing Apple touted as making it better for that is long gone. They used to use PPC architectures, which were arguably better than X86 for certain things at the time. Now, it mostly just comes down to personal preference. It's also possible some software is better supported on Mac, just because they have a deal with Apple or something.


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## purupuru (Aug 19, 2015)

I've recently built a dos machine and I love it. I think dos is the best os.


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## RodrigoDavy (Aug 19, 2015)

I think Windows 10 looks great, but since Linux been my main OS for 6 years, I will go with Linux.

Windows 10 added many cool features like Multiple Desktops and Cortana. But the main thing that I think it's still missing is a package application with support for repositories à la Linux. I was impressed back in 2007 when I first saw this concept and it still impress me that Microsoft didn't copy that. (Their current app store is NOT the same thing)

Windows is also in urgent need of a new filesystem, NTFS was created in 1993. It was obsolete by the time they released the Windows XP. Nowadays we have filesystems that have no problems with fragmentation and are just faster than NTFS.



purupuru said:


> I've recently built a dos machine and I love it. I think dos is the best os.


DOS is great but a Linux Terminal is superior in every way.  Erm, except for the games... DOS wins when it comes to games


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## The Catboy (Aug 19, 2015)

I have used more OS's than your common man and I can safely say, there is no one perfect OS. I have been using Linux/BSD/Open-source OS, for over 10 years now and haven't used Windows since starting down that road. Does it make Windows bad? No, it just means I don't use Windows. I prefer using Unix-Like operating systems.
Currently I have been using Chakra OS for the past 4 months as my main.
An interesting not, OSX is not only a UNIX system, it's partly based on BSD or it used to be based on BSD.


FAST6191 said:


> DragonflyBSD.


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## Duo8 (Aug 19, 2015)

I, of course, run Ganoo/Loonix exclusively.

I've tried Plan9 (9front) before as well.


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## roei (Aug 19, 2015)

It really depends on the user. personally I use Ubuntu.


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## zoogie (Aug 19, 2015)

Man your battlestations, fanboys! 

I'll guess I'll go ahead and attach my self-worth and human herding instinct to my chosen array of bytes, Microsoft/Windows.
(you have to say Microsoft/Windows because pointless arbitrary rules will be broken otherwise )


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## Duo8 (Aug 19, 2015)

zoogie said:


> (you have to say Microsoft/Windows because pointless arbitrary rules will be broken otherwise )


Wot
How does that make any sense?


Also, @filfat 
You may no longer discuss in peace


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## vayanui8 (Aug 19, 2015)

Windows is the most practical in most situations, but Linux certainly has a place and can be better when you are focusing on specific tasks. IMO OSX is alright for some things, but it limits you too much putting it behind the other 2.


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## Dr.Hacknik (Aug 21, 2015)

Is it just me, or is this post just plain pointless? There is no Best OS! Just opinions.

Hackintoshing is still fun.


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## Boy12 (Aug 21, 2015)

It's Windows for me!


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## JaapDaniels (Aug 21, 2015)

Linux by far, for it gets most up to date software, not many hacks (secure) and above all: it's for free!
i used the buntu serie (kubuntu, ubuntu, etc.).
fubuntu for those who like thier windows apps, ubuntu for best performance.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

On my PC I have:

Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet)

Windows 10 Pro
OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)

Android-x86 4.4 (KitKat)
I'm always on Ubuntu. I only use OS X when I have to port my software because it's sloooooow to boot and because I don't like its UI.
About Windows... once I had to do one thing and I got a spyware!!!! 

Anyway, I don't usually need to use Windows, because I can do everything on Ubuntu, except run some Windows software of course, but the most important software works in Wine.
Windows is better in some things, though, but generally I don't like it. I don't like the NTFS filesystem (which requires defragmentation), I don't like the crappy anti-aliasing and the contrast of the colours which hurt my eyes, I don't like its lack of simplicity in general...
For example: if a codec is missing, Ubuntu installs it for you, while in Windows you have to install it manually.
If you want to write "È" you have to use the ALT+the numbers on the keypad, while on Linux you just write è with the CAPS LOCK on. There are also a lot of key combinations to write more simbols easily: 

If you have Windows 10 you noticed that they finally added workspaces, but you may also notice that you can't move the windows via the keyboard. On Ubuntu, you just press CTRL+ALT+MAIUSC+↑/←/↓/→.
And there's a lot more which I'm not going to write... you'll see by yourself


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## Smuff (Aug 21, 2015)

AmigaOS ftw


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## Hyperstar96 (Aug 21, 2015)

Windows has the best overall functionality, but it's also most prone to bugs and viruses (it's also what most people are used to, for whatever that's worth).
Mac OS has the most ease of use and the best support for design tools.
Linux has... well... you get what you pay for.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

Hyperstar96 said:


> Windows has the best overall functionality, but it's also most prone to bugs and viruses (it's also what most people are used to, for whatever that's worth).
> Mac OS has the most ease of use and the best support for design tools.
> Linux has... well... you get what you pay for.


Best overall functionality?? Did you read my post?
I only agree that Windows can run most software natively.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 21, 2015)

Hyperstar96 said:


> Windows has the best overall functionality, but it's also most prone to bugs and viruses (it's also what most people are used to, for whatever that's worth).
> Mac OS has the most ease of use and the best support for design tools.
> Linux has... well... you get what you pay for.



You are going to have to qualify overall functionality. Most software, absolutely. Getting stuff done/not getting in my way... that is a bigger sell. What people are used to it worth quite a bit when I have to send each of my [insert number of employees] on a training course costing quite a bit and a serious bit when you multiply that by said number of employees, possibly plus the catch up time even despite the course. Though with things moving to browsers that gets interesting.

Design tools on mac... adobe stuff exists on Windows and is the default for a lot of things (they own audition, photoshop, indesign, premier, after effects and illustrator, or the default/possibly industry standard for most people doing audio, still images, document layout, video editing, video effects and vector images respectively). Time was that could have been the case and they have no small number of fans in the lower level worlds (even if they are trying to get rid of any good will final cut gave them faster than MS are trying to piss off small businesses).

Get what you pay for... https://www.suse.com/products/server/how-to-buy/ does get me a top flight server OS I suppose.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 21, 2015)

RodrigoDavy said:


> Windows is also in urgent need of a new filesystem, NTFS was created in 1993. It was obsolete by the time they released the Windows XP. Nowadays we have filesystems that have no problems with fragmentation and are just faster than NTFS.



If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Never had a single problem with it for as long as I can remember.


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## Centrix (Aug 21, 2015)

I actually just kicked Windows to the curb and opted in for Linux Mint. Personally from what I can see Linux will be the go to OS in the next couple of years, more and more support is showing up and developers are either porting their stuff to Linux or already have. In time I feel Linux will be the King of Operating Systems? at least thats how its looking with how fast its growing, I feel Android is apart of that reason on top of the fact Linux is free! lol


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## Hyperstar96 (Aug 21, 2015)

nastys said:


> Best overall functionality?? Did you read my post?
> I only agree that Windows can run most software natively.



You mean the post where you talked about accented e's and manually installing codecs? Not exactly major issues. But yes, it runs the most software natively.



FAST6191 said:


> (snip)



So what you're saying is, Windows is bad because it's what most people are used to, and you don't want people to use it because it's bad? That "Windows is bad because Windows is bad"? Also, last time I checked, most people don't have flight servers in their homes. Linux is good for computers that are meant to run one specific function (I meant to mention this in my original post, but there were already two replies by the time I could make an edit), but not as an all-in-one OS.


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## Monado_III (Aug 21, 2015)

Hyperstar96 said:


> Windows has the best overall functionality, but it's also most prone to bugs and viruses (it's also what most people are used to, for whatever that's worth).
> Mac OS has the most ease of use and the best support for design tools.
> *Linux has... well... you get what you pay for.*


Must be _really_ good then (https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html). Linux has the ability to be just as easy to use as OSX/Windows and it can be a far more open and powerful developer environment at the same time.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

Hyperstar96 said:


> You mean the post where you talked about accented e's and manually installing codecs? Not exactly major issues. But yes, it runs the most software natively.


Not major issues, but that's not the point. The point is that Ubuntu is faster, not only because it's more optimized internally, but also because it's easier to do many things. If I made a list of everything Linux is better at than Windows, I would never finish...
Also, it's free because it's _literally_ free, meaning that people can contribute to improve it, unlike companies who need money to write the entire OS. Major distros are also additionally supported by companies who get paid for their professional support.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 21, 2015)

Hyperstar96 said:


> So what you're saying is, Windows is bad because it's what most people are used to, and you don't want people to use it because it's bad? That "Windows is bad because Windows is bad"? Also, last time I checked, most people don't have flight servers in their homes. Linux is good for computers that are meant to run one specific function (I meant to mention this in my original post, but there were already two replies by the time I could make an edit), but not as an all-in-one OS.



I never said Windows was bad. I think Dax_Fame said it in the third post -- everything sucks, just a matter of figuring out what will cause you the least personal aggro. Likewise people being used to it was supposed to be a point in favour of windows, at least until you want to contemplate the security issues that sort of result from it.

It appears we had a slang mixup ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Top+Flight ), my apologies as I had no idea that was somewhat area specific.

I would however disagree on the specific function bit. It is a great base for a task specific machine (right from embedded to supercomputers) but multi function servers are right at home there and dare I say the modern desktop is not bad if you can live with the open source stuff (and firefox and chrome are great browsers and I will stand by libreoffice for what most people want there).


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

Ease of use__________________Amount of control
Mac OS------------Windows-------------Linux

They all have their benefits and drawbacks.  Depending on your skill level and what you do, any one of the options could be best for you.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> Ease of use__________________Amount of control
> Mac OS------------Windows-------------Linux


I personally dislike OS X's UI, but anyway Linux is the easiest to use (at least Ubuntu is).
Most people who have used a PC already know how to use Windows, that's why they think it's "more difficult" to use Ubuntu, but I think that someone who newer used a PC before would find Ubuntu easier to use (I'm not talking only about the UI.)

Windows requires too much maintenance (defrag, antivirus, updates that install on reboot...) while OS X and GNU/Linux don't.


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 21, 2015)

It's surprising to see that on a gaming driven community Linux gets so many votes.


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## Hyperstar96 (Aug 21, 2015)

FAST6191 said:


> I never said Windows was bad. I think Dax_Fame said it in the third post -- everything sucks, just a matter of figuring out what will cause you the least personal aggro. Likewise people being used to it was supposed to be a point in favour of windows, at least until you want to contemplate the security issues that sort of result from it.
> 
> It appears we had a slang mixup ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Top+Flight ), my apologies as I had no idea that was somewhat area specific.



Oh, then sorry for the misunderstanding.



> I would however disagree on the specific function bit. It is a great base for a task specific machine (right from embedded to supercomputers) but multi function servers are right at home there and dare I say the modern desktop is not bad if you can live with the open source stuff (and firefox and chrome are great browsers and I will stand by libreoffice for what most people want there).



I get what you're saying. Out of ignorance, what would a multi function server be? A desktop that doubles as a server running in the background?

I agree that the modern desktop is okay with open source programs, but I'd say it's much better without (for example, LibreOffice is okay but there are better options). I've been talking more in terms of the common (and not too uncommon) user and the range of functionality of each OS, but I'll concede that Linux does have it home to certain users who don't need some of the more specific functionalities of Windows.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

nastys said:


> I personally dislike OS X's UI, but anyway Linux is the easiest to use (at least Ubuntu is).
> Most people who have used a PC already know how to use Windows, that's why they think it's "more difficult" to use Ubuntu, but I think that someone who newer used a PC before would find Ubuntu easier to use (I'm not talking only about the UI.)
> 
> Windows requires too much maintenance (defrag, antivirus, updates that install on reboot...) while OS X and GNU/Linux don't.


I use OS X, Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10, and Ubuntu for my job.

Defrag has been automatic on Windows for a decade.  Only a fool thinks Mac and Linux can't get malware.  OS X and Linux require restarts for updates all the time.

Someone is talking out of their ass.


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## Deleted User (Aug 21, 2015)

While Windows is currently the only OS I use, I actually think Ubuntu is quite a bit better than Windows.
I dunno how to explain it properly, but I think it just kinda feels better overall than Windows? The only reason why I use Windows instead of Ubuntu is because a lot of the programs I use often are Windows only, VOCALOID4 is a good example, (well, I guess there is VOCALOID NEO for Mac and Piapro Studio for Mac, so it's not Windows only) I use it almost daily, then there's Skype, I use that daily and I've never ever been able to get it up and running on Ubuntu.
I could go on, but I'll just leave it at 'it depends on what you wanna do'.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I could go on, but I'll just leave it at 'it depends on what you wanna do'.


That's really the only answer there is.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> I use OS X, Windows XP/Vista/7/8/10, and Ubuntu for my job.
> 
> Defrag has been automatic on Windows for a decade.  Only a fool thinks Mac and Linux can't get malware.  OS X and Linux require restarts for updates all the time.
> 
> Someone is talking out of their ass.


Installing updates on reboot is different than requiring to restart in order to apply the updates.
When you start your PC and Windows needs to install an update, you're stuck.
OS X installs updates on shutdown, which is a bit better, depending on the situation.
Linux doesn't install updates when you turn on or off your PC, but before Linux 4.0 it required the user to reboot the PC to load the updated kernel.

Also, automatic defrag is still defrag, which slows down your PC when you use it and even if you don't, it reduces the hard disk's lifetime.

And only Windows and OS X users get malware. I looked for a reason to install an antivirus on my Ubuntu partition, but I couldn't find one, except for scanning my Windows partition


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## zoogie (Aug 21, 2015)

WiiUBricker said:


> It's surprising to see that on a gaming driven community Linux gets so many votes.


It's the same thing with hardcore gamers vs casuals.
The casuals don't shout from rooftops their brand affiliation the ways hardcores do. This can make the hardcores seem like they outnumber casuals even though the opposite is true. The vocal minority always does a better job of making their presence known, like this thread's poll.

Linux are hardcore PC users and Windows, casual. Usually.
Mac are casuals with more money.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

nastys said:


> Installing updates on reboot is different than requiring restarts to apply the updates.
> When you start your PC and Windows needs to install an update, you're stuck.
> OS X installs updates on shutdown, which is a bit better, depending on the situation.
> Linux doesn't install updates when you turn on or off your PC, but before Linux 4.0 it required the user to reboot the PC to load the updated kernel.
> ...


Uh oh, we have a Linux fanboy.

I had to reboot last time I updated Ubuntu (a couple weeks ago I think, it's the one I use least).  Requiring a restart at any point means the end result is the same:  You have to wait for it to install and reboot.  Defragmenting is never done when you are using the computer either.  Linux moves the files around when needed, which puts the same (very light) strain on a drive that defragmentation does.

You fall into the category of fools who think Linux doesn't get malware.  Both OS X and Linux have a lot less malware than Windows, that's true.  It's not because they are more secure though.  It's because on both OS's you can get almost all your software from a single updater.  That is a benefit, but it's not foolproof, and it's safer to have an antivirus program on every system.

Anyway, I'm not voting.  They all have benefits and drawbacks.  I couldn't choose anyway.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> Uh oh, we have a Linux fanboy.


A fanboy who used Windows for more than 12 years before switching to Ubuntu for more than 3 years, yeah, maybe.


JoostinOnline said:


> Uh oh, we have a Linux fanboy.
> 
> I had to reboot last time I updated Ubuntu (a couple weeks ago I think, it's the one I use least).  Requiring a restart at any point means the end result is the same:  You have to wait for it to install and reboot


Wrong, the update is installed right away. You have to reboot only to USE the new installed Linux kernel, but it's already installed.


JoostinOnline said:


> You fall into the category of fools who think Linux doesn't get malware.  Both OS X and Linux have a lot less malware than Windows, that's true.  It's not because they are more secure though.  It's because on both OS's you can get almost all your software from a single updater.  That is a benefit, but it's not foolproof, and it's safer to have an antivirus program on every system.


The most secure is OpenBSD, only 2 bugs in 10 years... but I can't find any threat for normal GNU/Linux desktop users either. Any new exploit gets patched in a few hours, on Windows a few days and on OS X a few months...
Why should I use an antivirus on Ubuntu? Name a virus that actually still works...


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## Smuff (Aug 21, 2015)

WiiUBricker said:


> It's surprising to see that on a gaming driven community Linux gets so many votes.


Not really - it's the fashionable answer for the cool kids.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

nastys said:


> Wrong, the update is installed right away. You have to reboot only to USE the new installed Linux kernel, but it's already installed.


That's exactly what I said.



nastys said:


> The most secure is OpenBSD, only 2 bugs in 10 years... but I can't find any threat for normal GNU/Linux desktop users either. Any new exploit gets patched in a few hours, on Windows a few days and on OS X a few months...


Actually Symantec did a 6 month study that showed Windows had the fewest security holes, and they were the fastest to patch them.  This was a several years back though, so it may have shifted.



nastys said:


> Why should I use an antivirus on Ubuntu? Name a virus that actually still works...


I'm not talking about viruses alone.  I said malware.

Linux and OS X are safer, but nothing is invulnerable.  You're also not considering the dozens of Linux alternatives to Ubuntu, many of which aren't as well maintained.[/QUOTE]


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## Catastrophic (Aug 21, 2015)

I have never used an OSX system and have only briefly tried Ubuntu. I have pretty much only used Windows and haven't seen the point of trying something else as I've never had any significant problems with it. Windows 7 is one of the most solid OSes ever. Sure there are risks of viruses but as long as you have common sense and a decent antivirus you should be safe from them.

I'll probably try a linux OS sometime when I feel like messing with computer stuff. Never going to try an OSX as I'm not going to be buying a MAC anytime soon.


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## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> That's exactly what I said.


You said that the user is required to reboot and wait, but what I mean is that on Windows you don't just wait for it to reboot, you want for it to INSTALL and reboot, which takes more time...


JoostinOnline said:


> Actually Symantec did a 6 month study that showed Windows had the fewest security holes, and they were the fastest to patch them.  This was a several years back though, so it may have shifted.
> 
> I'm not talking about viruses alone.  I said malware.
> 
> Linux and OS X are safer, but nothing is invulnerable.  You're also not considering the dozens of Linux alternatives to Ubuntu, many of which aren't as well maintained.


Any malware worth caring about?
I've never got a malware in more than 3 years on Ubuntu, and I got a spyware only some days ago on Windows, which I even use rarely...


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## vayanui8 (Aug 21, 2015)

WiiUBricker said:


> It's surprising to see that on a gaming driven community Linux gets so many votes.


It's also hacking drievn so its not too surprising.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

Catastrophic said:


> I have never used an OSX system and have only briefly tried Ubuntu. I have pretty much only used Windows and haven't seen the point of trying something else as I've never had any significant problems with it. Windows 7 is one of the most solid OSes ever. Sure there are risks of viruses but as long as you have common sense and a decent antivirus you should be safe from them.
> 
> I'll probably try a linux OS sometime when I feel like messing with computer stuff. Never going to try an OSX as I'm not going to be buying a MAC anytime soon.


I recently got my first Windows virus after 15 years of use.  I was so pissed off.  I'd done something incredibly stupid.  I got an installer from a different host.


nastys said:


> You said that the user is required to reboot and wait, but what I mean is that on Windows you don't just wait for it to reboot, you want for it to INSTALL and reboot, which takes more time...


Here is what I said:


> Requiring a restart at any point means the end result is the same: You have to wait for it to install and reboot.


Almost everything is done in the background on Windows anyway.  You shut down your computer, and if updates were installed, your computer takes an extra 30 seconds to start next time you turn it on.  OH NOEZ!!! 

The point I'm making is that I don't think the order it's required or a slight difference in the time it takes matters much.


nastys said:


> Any malware worth caring about?
> I've never got a malware in more than 3 years on Ubuntu, and I got a spyware only some days ago on Windows, which I even use rarely...


As I mentioned above, I've had one virus in 15 years, and none while practicing common sense.  The chances of getting any kind of malware on Ubuntu (specifically) are extremely low even if common sense isn't something you regularly practice.  That's a benefit that shouldn't be overlooked.  Even so, I recommend an AV to all my customers (I do computer repairs, which is why I work with so many OS's), because you're better safe than sorry.

I'd suggest you Google to look for malware.  Shellshock was the last big Linux vulnerability that I've heard of (each update usually means they found a new one though), and Ubuntu took care of that after only a few days.  Unless you're just the laziest SOB out there or don't have an Internet connection, you don't have to worry about it. 


I use Windows almost all the time, but that's primarily due to the software I'm most used to only being available on Windows.  Sure there are equivalents for most everything on Linux (and vice versa), but who wants to learn something new when you could watch Netflix instead?


----------



## jonthedit (Aug 21, 2015)

@JoostinMasterRace
+Everything he said and:
Honestly AVs are outdated m8ts. Use common sense and all is well.


----------



## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> I recently got my first Windows virus after 15 years of use.  I was so pissed off.  I'd done something incredibly stupid.  I got an installer from a different host.
> Here is what I said:
> Almost everything is done in the background on Windows anyway.  You shut down your computer, and if updates were installed, your computer takes an extra 30 seconds to start next time you turn it on.  OH NOEZ!!!
> 
> The point I'm making is that I don't think the order it's required or a slight difference in the time it takes matters much.


That depends on how much it takes. For example, if you use the PC after months of disuse, the system takes a loooot more time to install all the updates, and you can't use the PC because Windows installs the updates on boot, not after. On Ubuntu, the updates are installed right away. If a reboot is needed in order to use the new kernel, the user can reboot later. Since Linux 4.0, the kernel is patched on the fly, without having to reboot, EVER.



JoostinOnline said:


> As I mentioned above, I've had one virus in 15 years, and none while practicing common sense.  The chances of getting any kind of malware on Ubuntu (specifically) are extremely low even if common sense isn't something you regularly practice.  That's a benefit that shouldn't be overlooked.  Even so, I recommend an AV to all my customers (I do computer repairs, which is why I work with so many OS's), because you're better safe than sorry.


I'm always careful not to run random executables since most software I need is in the repositories or PPAs.



JoostinOnline said:


> I'd suggest you Google to look for malware.  Shellshock was the last big Linux vulnerability that I've heard of (each update usually means they found a new one though), and Ubuntu took care of that after only a few days.  Unless you're just the laziest SOB out there or don't have an Internet connection, you don't have to worry about it.


I searched for any possible malware for Linux some time ago on my own, couldn't find anything, except for Flash Player, which I disabled on Firefox and I only use with Chrome (which is supposed to be safer).



JoostinOnline said:


> I use Windows almost all the time, but that's primarily due to the software I'm most used to only being available on Windows.  Sure there are equivalents for most everything on Linux (and vice versa), but who wants to learn something new when you could watch Netflix instead?


You could always watch Netflix while you configure you PC, right?


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

jonthedit said:


> @JoostinMasterRace
> +Everything he said and:
> Honestly AVs are outdated m8ts. Use common sense and all is well.


If people used common sense, I'd be out of business.



nastys said:


> I'm always careful not to run random executables since most software I need is in the repositories or PPAs.


Then I doubt you'll ever get any kind of malware.  My objection was to your statement that Linux DIDN'T get malware.  It does, but it takes a stupid person and extra bad luck.


----------



## Dr.Hacknik (Aug 21, 2015)

Windows is more popular than Linux. So in the market your Apps would be purchased or used more, Windows is one of the easiest to code for.


----------



## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> Then I doubt you'll ever get any kind of malware.  My objection was to your statement that Linux DIDN'T get malware.  It does, but it takes a stupid person and extra bad luck.


I never said it doesn't, but a normal user doesn't have to worry about it, unlike in Windows. Microsoft even had to add Windows Defender...


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 21, 2015)

nastys said:


> I never said it doesn't


I beg to differ


nastys said:


> And only Windows and OS X get malware.


----------



## nastys (Aug 21, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> I beg to differ


I meant Windows and OS X _users_ get malware...
Just forgot to write a word 

Anyway, I corrected my post


----------



## Monado_III (Aug 21, 2015)

luke dixon said:


> Windows is more popular than Linux. So in the market your Apps would be purchased or used more, Windows is one of the easiest to code for.


In what way?


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Aug 22, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> Almost everything is done in the background on Windows anyway.  You shut down your computer, and if updates were installed, your computer takes an extra 30 seconds to start next time you turn it on.  OH NOEZ!!!


I completely disagree. Many times I've had updates that lasted 10 minutes or more with Windows. The problem is since Windows install during shutdown and startup, you can't use your computer in the meantime.

This is a pretty bad problem to me because I have dual-boot in my laptop. And sometimes I need to reboot to switch OSes which means I want to continue using my computer but I gotta fuckin wait for the updates. My Linux Mint always start in less than 10 seconds regardless of the situation


----------



## Duo8 (Aug 22, 2015)

Windows updates are fucking painful. I have to wait when it shuts down or even worse, when it starts up, meaning i have to wait to use my computer. And it nags me to restart everytime.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 22, 2015)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I completely disagree. Many times I've had updates that lasted 10 minutes or more with Windows. The problem is since Windows install during shutdown and startup, you can't use your computer in the meantime.
> 
> This is a pretty bad problem to me because I have dual-boot in my laptop. And sometimes I need to reboot to switch OSes which means I want to continue using my computer but I gotta fuckin wait for the updates. My Linux Mint always start in less than 10 seconds regardless of the situation


What version of Windows do you have?  With the latest two versions, Microsoft rolls out a few updates every couple of days.  They install quick.  I also suppose it depends on how often you restart.  If they build up (like how it is when you first install Windows), they take forever.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> That depends on how much it takes. For example, if you use the PC after months of disuse, the system takes a loooot more time to install all the updates, and you can't use the PC because Windows installs the updates on boot, not after. On Ubuntu, the updates are installed right away. If a reboot is needed in order to use the new kernel, the user can reboot later. Since Linux 4.0, the kernel is patched on the fly, without having to reboot, EVER.


Ugh, I booted into Windows for the first time in awhile on my laptop when I was at school last year (just wanted to do something quick).  Went to shut it off, and despite having set the updates to install ONLY upon me giving permission, the fucker updated on me anyways.  I think I waited on it for 45 minutes before I had to go to class, and I couldn't shut the computer down and take it with me because it was fucking updating, so I had to leave it alone in the lab to update while I ran to class.  Came back from class three hours later and IT WAS STILL UPDATING!  Fucking Windows.


----------



## jonthedit (Aug 22, 2015)

I will give Linux the win on update buildup... same with OSX[since there is not any for osx]


----------



## Smuff (Aug 22, 2015)

I can't be arsed to learn linux - I _like_ windows. It does everything I want/need it to. The only reason there's so much infection on Windows is down to it's massive market share coupled with the stupidity/ignorance of some of it's users.


----------



## Originality (Aug 22, 2015)

Best OS? I'll vote Android just to be difficult :3


----------



## XDel (Aug 22, 2015)

WorkBench, BeOS, Haiku, MorphOS.


----------



## raulpica (Aug 22, 2015)

Smuff said:


> AmigaOS ftw


Damn, I came in here to say the SAME exact thing. I tip off my hat to you, sir.



XDel said:


> WorkBench, BeOS, Haiku, MorphOS.


They've gifted me a PPC Mac Mini two months or so ago, which I intended to try MorphOS on. Maybe today is the day that I get around to do that...


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Originality said:


> Best OS? I'll vote Android just to be difficult :3


Android is based on Linux


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> Android is based on Linux


And Java, which is why it's got so many security holes.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> And Java, which is why it's got so many security holes.


Just install apps from the Play Store or the Amazon App-Shop instead of random apks found on the Internet


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> Just install apps from the Play Store or the Amazon App-Shop instead of random apks found on the Internet



Google and Amazon have a nasty habit of removing the most enjoyable apps from their stores, just because they violate certain agreements. 
Malware has made it onto the Play store and the Apple store before.
I recommend avast! on mobile phones as well.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> Google and Amazon have a nasty habit of removing the most enjoyable apps from their stores, just because they violate certain agreements.
> Malware has made it onto the Play store and the Apple store before.
> I recommend avast! on mobile phones as well.


Of course everything can't be on the Play Store... Mostly apps that are used to violate copyrights (PopCorn Time, for example) and apps that install other apps (Amazon App-Shop can't be installed from the Play Store.) Apple's store is much more restrictive (and expensive.)
It's possible but rare that malware make it onto a store (except for the Windows Store.)
On Android, Google Play Services warns you if you have a dangerous app installed.


----------



## haipro2001 (Aug 22, 2015)

Elementary OS


----------



## Duo8 (Aug 22, 2015)

haipro2001 said:


> Elementary OS


That's ubuntu.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Duo8 said:


> That's ubuntu.


Based on Ubuntu...


----------



## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

It always depends on what you want to do with your machine. I don't even consider Apple.
Windows is good if you want to play videogames and for the office suite which is badly/poorly implemented in other sistems (again, I don't even consider Apple).
Linux is good for its nature of open source software, you can do pretty much everything but gaming. Don't even try to pull out the "Steam is making Linux games" card", because they are not so much and runs not as good as windows due to lack of officials drivers.
Personally I LOVE Linux (I run Ubuntu MATE on my main workstation). I just love being able to customize EVERYTHING on the UI and the terminal-part of the system is intriguing me since it makes some operations more easy than click-find-search with a mouse pointer.
Mac is overpriced. Sorry not sorry, but it is.
And don't try to pull out (sorry for the repetition) the "Mac runs graphics tools better" card, because it doesn't. And even if it does, with the same price you can buy a more powerful machine with Windows that can runs almost the same programs and do other stuffs that Mac cannot do (games). I like the portability of the Macbooks though. Heat absorption and the thinnes of Macbooks are something that every laptop-maker should study.


----------



## Duo8 (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> Based on Ubuntu...


Same thing. 
Oh and older as well.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Duo8 said:


> Same thing.
> Oh and older as well.


Elementary OS uses its own UI, which is a lot different from Ubuntu's Unity UI.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 22, 2015)

All three operating systems are great.
I prefer Windows because it's what I'm familiar with and because of program compatibility.
Linux distros are great alternatives to Windows. One of my machines runs Ubuntu, but I rarely use it.
Mac OS X is a great operating system, but I consider Apple products to be overpriced when contrasted with comparable systems.


----------



## Duo8 (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> Elementary OS uses its own UI, which is a lot different from Ubuntu's Unity UI.


Ubuntu GNOME/Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Lubuntu uses its own UI, which is a lot different from Ubuntu's Unity UI.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Duo8 said:


> Ubuntu GNOME/Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Lubuntu uses its own UI, which is a lot different from Ubuntu's Unity UI.


...and they are all _based_ on Ubuntu, but they _are not_ Ubuntu.


----------



## Duo8 (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> ...and they are all _based_ on Ubuntu, but they _are not_ Ubuntu.


Ubuntu flavors with the DE swapped out. That's not enough to be considered another OS or even a distro. 
But hey, free software. Do whatever you want, even calling people downloading your free distro cheaters.


----------



## Lucifer666 (Aug 22, 2015)

Mac OS X is incredibly unpopular on this site but I get it, we're gamers here

I got a Macbook back in 2013 and it's honestly changed my life. True, Steam is **** on it and there are a lot of games that aren't available on Mac, but practically as a tool I use to study, surf the web, write documents, emails, that sort of thing, it's unbeatable

and macbook don't have particularly the best specs ever but they are phenomenal at using what specs they do have to their maximum capacity. my macbook is a pro yet it only has crappy integrated graphics, in other words it technically doesnt even have a graphics card. i play minecraft on max graphix though at 60 fps

there is a lot of software that is windows-exclusive but more often than not you'll find a mac alternative. unless its something small someone made like a jailbreak/hack tool or whatever. for example emunand tool wasn't available on mac for a long time and i always had to borrow my ma's laptop to use it

one day when i have the money id like to build a gaming desktop (windows) and i'll use that whenever i need anything heavy that my mac cannot do. but that's not a lot. even though my mac is a 2012 model it holds up so incredibly well and i can realistically still see myself using it like 4 years down the line


----------



## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

Lucifer666 said:


> Mac OS X is incredibly unpopular on this site but I get it, we're gamers here
> 
> I got a Macbook back in 2013 and it's honestly changed my life. True, Steam is **** on it and there are a lot of games that aren't available on Mac, but practically as a tool I use to study, surf the web, write documents, emails, that sort of thing, it's unbeatable
> 
> ...


Actually, I understand you.
I hold a grudge against Apple since ever, but what you told is the truth.
Mac OS is a very good system (I forgot to mention it in my previous post) that takes everything it can from its components (not GPU's anyway). This and the ability of making the laptop not going overheat is what I actually envy of macbooks.


----------



## Selim873 (Aug 22, 2015)

As a gamer, definitely Windows 10.  I really like Linux though, but I always go back to Windows for that reason.  Wine takes so much effort to try to boot a game that you don't even know will work with it or not.  Isn't worth it.  I do like Mac as well, and have tried to turn my PC into a Hackintosh machine, that's what my machine was originally going to be, even though I'm using parts chosen from the site, I just ran into issues so I bought Windows.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Duo8 said:


> Ubuntu flavors with the DE swapped out. That's not enough to be considered another OS or even a distro.
> But hey, free software. Do whatever you want, even calling people downloading your free distro cheaters.


Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, etc... are _flavours_ (or _flavors_), and they are _officially recognised_ because they are fully integrated in the Ubuntu project and contribute significantly and directly towards the project (source).
Any distro based on Ubuntu, including flavours, is a _derivative_. They internally share the same software, so you don't need to create a package for Ubuntu, one for Kubuntu, etc...
But the operating system itself is different; even the preinstalled software may vary depending on the distro, so it's not 100% the same.
For example, you can't follow this tutorial on Kubuntu directly, because Kubuntu uses kate instead of gedit.

Derivatives that only add some software are called _Remixes_.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> Windows is good if you want [snip] the office suite which is badly/poorly implemented in other sistems



What would be the shortcomings of libreoffice in your experience/opinion? I am unlikely to call it better than MS office but it gets things done that need to be done in my experience (and that of most of my clients).

Granted I am a big believer in moving to more dedicated software (20 page professional report -- that better be in something (la)tex based, does page down three times not bring you to the end of your spreadsheet table -- time for a database, do you have more than two pictures and a text box on your poster -- fire up scribus/indesign/something similar) so me and mine might miss out on some of the edge cases but the only times I really encounter resistance to it is when people/companies have not been weaned off outlook/exchange email.


----------



## Duo8 (Aug 22, 2015)

FAST6191 said:


> What would be the shortcomings of libreoffice in your experience/opinion? I am unlikely to call it better than MS office but it gets things done that need to be done in my experience (and that of most of my clients).
> 
> Granted I am a big believer in moving to more dedicated software (20 page professional report -- that better be in something (la)tex based, does page down three times not bring you to the end of your spreadsheet table -- time for a database, do you have more than two pictures and a text box on your poster -- fire up scribus/indesign/something similar) so me and mine might miss out on some of the edge cases but the only times I really encounter resistance to it is when people/companies have not been weaned off outlook/exchange email.


It's somewhat incompatible with the newer .*x format. I tried opening a pptx and it was pretty weird.
The UI wasn't the best either.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Duo8 said:


> It's somewhat incompatible with the newer .*x format. I tried opening a pptx and it was pretty weird.


Because the documentation of that format sucks.


----------



## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

FAST6191 said:


> What would be the shortcomings of libreoffice in your experience/opinion? I am unlikely to call it better than MS office but it gets things done that need to be done in my experience (and that of most of my clients).
> 
> Granted I am a big believer in moving to more dedicated software (20 page professional report -- that better be in something (la)tex based, does page down three times not bring you to the end of your spreadsheet table -- time for a database, do you have more than two pictures and a text box on your poster -- fire up scribus/indesign/something similar) so me and mine might miss out on some of the edge cases but the only times I really encounter resistance to it is when people/companies have not been weaned off outlook/exchange email.


I am not very well english-educated, so I found your post a little hard to understand. I'll try to give an answer anyway.
The problem is *me,* not the LibreOffice suite. I never take enough time to learn and comprehend this free office suite.  The thing that I particularly don't like is the interface: since Office 2007, the new ribbon ui become the standard on the office suite, but LibreOffice (once OpenOffice iirc) never caught the occasion to refresh its ui, which seems to me, horrible and anti-functional with too many buttons and no tabs to switch.
Nothing much to say about LibreOffice Write, docx is not entirely supported but it's not a big deal, but Calc is another thing.
Many functions that are available on the Office suite are not on LibreOffice, enough said. Also, as I mentioned before xlsx are pretty broken, and it's no-good for a calculus-sheet.
I don't use Impress, I used to make databases with Office, but not anymore.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> I am not very well english-educated, so I found your post a little hard to understand. I'll try to give an answer anyway.
> The problem is *me,* not the LibreOffice suite. I never take enough time to learn and comprehend this free office suite.  The thing that I particularly don't like is the interface: since Office 2007, the new ribbon ui become the standard on the office suite, but LibreOffice (once OpenOffice iirc) never caught the occasion to refresh its ui, which seems to me, horrible and anti-functional with too many buttons and no tabs to switch.
> Nothing much to say about LibreOffice Write, docx is not entirely supported but it's not a big deal, but Calc is another thing.
> Many functions that are available on the Office suite are not on LibreOffice, enough said. Also, as I mentioned before xlsx are pretty broken, and it's no-good for a calculus-sheet.
> I don't use Impress, I used to make databases with Office, but not anymore.


Luckily Office 2007 and 2010 work perfectly under Wine/PlayOnLinux, if needed.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 22, 2015)

Lucifer666 said:


> Mac OS X is incredibly unpopular on this site but I get it, we're gamers here
> 
> I got a Macbook back in 2013 and it's honestly changed my life. True, Steam is **** on it and there are a lot of games that aren't available on Mac, but practically as a tool I use to study, surf the web, write documents, emails, that sort of thing, it's unbeatable
> 
> ...


I have nothing against Mac, hell they're what musicians prefer to use than Windows (Linux is not even considered). But for myself? I've used Mac in the past but didn't like how it functioned or unable to use apps I use daily on Windows.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind going back to Ubuntu/Elementary OS but Windows 10 is excellent as is for me.


----------



## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> I have nothing against Mac, hell *they're what musicians prefer to use than Windows (Linux is not even considered)*. But for myself? I've used Mac in the past but didn't like how it functioned or unable to use apps I use daily on Windows.
> 
> To be honest, I wouldn't mind going back to Ubuntu/Elementary OS but Windows 10 is excellent as is for me.


That's exactly why people tend to not even try Linux.
I'm displeased to say that Linux hasn't a software for everything the other systems do, but it is true. Sometimes with Linux you have to adapt or write yourself the software you need, which isn't very user-accessible. Dunno about Mac but it seems the software park goes like this: Windows > Mac >= Linux


----------



## sarkwalvein (Aug 22, 2015)

I really don't like Windows but I use it all the time because of games and BS soft that requires windows.
As far as the OS goes, it looks not nice to me, it lacks a lot of tools, I don't like the filesystem idea, meh, leave me with Unix based systems.
That said, I don't like MacOS that much, but at least I'm more comfortable with the Unix like tools and usage, and if you Brew your way around it feels a little like Linux.
I just prefer Linux based systems, but many windows based games and BS software doesn't run so well on it (through wine).
At the end of the day I still must use windows.


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 22, 2015)

Windows OS

Windows 10 - If you want to be spied on whilst playing games.
Windows 9 - If you don't exist too.
Windows 8.1 - If you like it... I guess... With it's "familiar" and "easy to use" interface...
Windows 8 - If you don't have internet...
Windows 7 - If you hate support.
Windows Vista - If you hate yourself.
Windows XP - If you REALLY hate support.
Windows 2000 - If you want to look like you come from the future.
Windows 98 - The operating system I still have...
Windows ME - The one I had in a foreign language.
MS-DOS - Windows still uses it. And it's crap.

Mac

I have no idea about Mac. It's based of Unix though.

Linux

But Linux. It's good. But not good for gaming? Makes sense, because my gaming computer runs Linux, and I play all the games I want to play, natively.
Also, a usable shell, and also, no terminal required interface. Learning Linux is a thing of the past. Seriously, it has a UI.
Security fixed very fast, has big companies behind it, lots of people too.


----------



## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

yodamerlin said:


> Windows OS
> 
> Windows 10 - If you want to be spied on whilst playing games.
> Windows 9 - If you don't exist too.
> ...


Explain to me those "all the games" and "natively" without using Wine and PlayOnLinux in a sentence


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> Explain to me those "all the games" and "natively" without using Wine and PlayOnLinux in a sentence


He said "*all the games* I want to play". There are a lot of nice games on Steam, for example.


----------



## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

I agree in that case, but take a look at this: 
I'm kind of a perfectionist when gaming is involved and I can say this isn't the only game that has fps drop due to OpenGL.
But hey, if you have a gtx 980 you don't have those problems even with Wine (even if it has a significant fps drop compared to windows)


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> I am not very well english-educated, so I found your post a little hard to understand. I'll try to give an answer anyway.
> The problem is *me,* not the LibreOffice suite. I never take enough time to learn and comprehend this free office suite.  The thing that I particularly don't like is the interface: since Office 2007, the new ribbon ui become the standard on the office suite, but LibreOffice (once OpenOffice iirc) never caught the occasion to refresh its ui, which seems to me, horrible and anti-functional with too many buttons and no tabs to switch.
> Nothing much to say about LibreOffice Write, docx is not entirely supported but it's not a big deal, but Calc is another thing.
> Many functions that are available on the Office suite are not on LibreOffice, enough said. Also, as I mentioned before xlsx are pretty broken, and it's no-good for a calculus-sheet.
> I don't use Impress, I used to make databases with Office, but not anymore.



My apologies, I do usually try to not make things difficult. Not sure what went there.

I have slightly warmed to ribbon in recent years, however I still do not consider it an improvement in office UI. Maybe not as much of a bad move as it was at first (MS have improved things a bit after all) but it is not the way forward for UI design from where I sit.

Calc? Other than some of the crazier sides of macros what is really missing? When was the last time you tested the newer ????x import functions in Libre office as well? Libreoffice (then open office) had more or less conquered the old doc/xls/ppt stuff, to the point where it was probably better than the modern MS stuff -- if you found a 1997 document and needed it opening then open office was where you probably would have gone first, but then MS came out with the ???x formats for partially good reasons and the first attempts at supporting them were not great. Current stuff does quite a bit better. You can still find things that will break it (people putting tables inside of tables usually does it for me) but the day to day stuff should be fine.

MS office has a billion odd functions, no argument there. Libreofffice misses no small number of them. Once upon a time there was a phrase along the lines of "most people only use 10% of MS office, however it is always a different 10%". However I am not sure that is the case any more.

On docx... since the rise of the ipad and people started sending me and mine whatever that nasty mac/IOS office program uses I have gone the other way and almost exclusively deal in PDF or HTML. Indeed about the only times I do not are when I am sending a copy of my CV to a job agency for them to ruin. You would not believe the amount of aggravation that gets avoided by doing this.

I certainly do not install libreoffice at places without first playing things out a bit, and on some of the larger ones then office 365 or a virtual machine is available for when it is absolutely necessary, but for most purposes I have to consider it there.


----------



## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> I agree in that case, but take a look at this:
> I'm kind of a perfectionist when gaming is involved and I can say this isn't the only game that has fps drop due to OpenGL.
> But hey, if you have a gtx 980 you don't have those problems even with Wine (even if it has a significant fps drop compared to windows)



(I didn't watch the entire video)
They have more or less the same performance most of the time. In some areas it's slower and drops some FPS on Ubuntu because Nvidia hadn't ported PhysX (GPU) yet, but since the release of Steam for Linux they've started porting everything and improving the driver.
Anyway, PhysX (GPU) has been ported some months ago, so new games won't drop as much as Borderlands 2 does (and they may even perform better).


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 22, 2015)

yodamerlin said:


> Windows 8.1 - If you like it... I guess... With it's "familiar" and "easy to use" interface...


Windows 10 is literally Windows 8.1 with Windows 7 shell improved.

Don't see why the need to hate all the OS' so much.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 22, 2015)

Different OSes to suit different needs, no OS is really that much superior to another, though I will state Windows 7 has been the most stable OS I've personally used.


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 22, 2015)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Windows 10 is literally Windows 8.1 with Windows 7 shell improved.
> 
> Don't see why the need to hate all the OS' so much.


Did I knock Windows 10's UI? No? Good, we have nothing wrong then.



4ur0r said:


> Explain to me those "all the games" and "natively" without using Wine and PlayOnLinux in a sentence


Gunpoint, CIV 5, Portal, Portal 2, Frozen Synapse, Race the Sun, Minecraft, Kerble Space Program and many more. But seriously, Gunpoint is all I need.


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## jonthedit (Aug 22, 2015)

JoostinOnline said:


> And Java, which is why it's got so many security holes.


But apparently not enough holes 
My Verizon S5 still has no root available thanks to Verizons locked bootloader shit.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

It's obviously Windows. Nobody has time for the BS everything-incompatible in Linux, it's for no-lives and then there's Windows for everybody else which works perfectly.


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## Monado_III (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> It's obviously Windows. Nobody has time for the *BS everything-incompatible* in Linux, *it's for no-lives* and then there's Windows *for everybody else which works perfectly*.


Have you used linux? I have no clue what on earth you're talking about, what's incompatible?

No-lives, like the US Military? Or like about half of gbatemp users? Or some of the people here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters#Businesses_and_non-profits) including Nvidia's CEO, and tons of people at IBM, Amazon, Google, or Dreamworks?

Works perfectly, except when it BSOD's for no apparent reason.

You're either ignorant, trolling, or both.


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## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> It's obviously Windows. Nobody has time for the *BS everything-incompatible in Linux*, it's for no-lives and then there's Windows for everybody else which works perfectly.


Might seem crazy, but my printer doesn't even need drivers when plugged into my ubuntu pc.
Same as many other devices. Linux has more compatibility than windows, but windows has more *efficent* drivers.


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## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> Linux has more compatibility than windows, but windows has more *efficent* drivers.


I thought it were the opposite...


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

4ur0r said:


> Might seem crazy, but my printer doesn't even need drivers when plugged into my ubuntu pc.
> Same as many other devices. Linux has more compatibility than windows, but windows has more *efficent* drivers.


No, Linux doesn't support most hardware pieces and barely has any software. The OS also looks and behaves like Windows 2000 or something. We've already got an obvious loser.


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## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> No, Linux doesn't support most hardware pieces and barely has any software. The OS also looks and behaves like Windows 2000 or something. We've already got an obviously loser.


Ehm... I've used Ubuntu for more than three years and I rarely needed to use any Windows program that doesn't work in Wine (and I rarely needed to use any Windows program that works in Wine as well...)
There are no compatibility issues if you build the right hardware. Everything in my PC still works fine.


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## TecXero (Aug 22, 2015)

Actually, a lot more games have been ported to Linux these past couple of years. I generally buy all my PC games through GOG and Humble, and it's rare for me to come across something that isn't designed with Ubuntu in mind (which works fine with Mint since Mint uses Ubuntu as a base). Then again, I mostly play Indie and AA games on PC. Not trying to be a pretentious dick, it's just there aren't many AAA games that appeal to me.

That said, that doesn't mean they're good ports. Sometimes they're just the windows version shoved into some kind of WINE like wrapper. I'm not saying gaming on Linux is superior, just that it's an option that isn't as bad as it used to be. If you want to get the most out of your PC on the gaming front, Windows is still the way to go.


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## 4ur0r (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> No, Linux doesn't support most hardware pieces and barely has any software. The OS also looks and behaves like Windows 2000 or something. We've already got an obvious loser.


Let's stop feeding the troll 



nastys said:


> I thought it were the opposite...


Well, it works this way for GPUs and printers surely, dunno about other things to be honest... Well, I learn something new everyday, thank you sir.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

@Monado_III
Hardware support is an issue, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux#Hardware_support
It's for no-lifes because nearly everything is command line based so you need to remember all the silly commands and flags to do most things.
One thing I forget is gaming support is nearly non-existent.
It might work perfectly too but it's severely lacking functionality so that barely matters and besides, the bash terminal is even visually bugged sometimes when you scroll through text and such.

Linux is only good for being a server for something but not for a working machine.


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## Monado_III (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> No, *Linux doesn't support most hardware pieces* and barely has any software. The *OS also looks and behaves like Windows 2000 or something*. We've already got an obvious loser.


I plug in my Razer mouse, no drives needed all buttons work properly, I plug in my camera, works, I connect to my printer, again, it just works. In Windows to do any of those things (minus the printer) I'd need to find the right drivers, install them and hope it works.

Linux desktop*S*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_5 
Windows 200 desktop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2000#/media/File:Windows_2000_Server.png
Please tell me they look the same.


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## yodamerlin (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> No, Linux doesn't support most hardware pieces and barely has any software. The OS also looks and behaves like Windows 2000 or something. We've already got an obvious loser.


I agree. Linux has no software.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

@Monado_III
On Windows, hardware pieces always work so don't pretend it's all hoping like on Linux. Also the Windows 2000 comparison wasn't visual but functional in terms of what the OS can do.


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## TecXero (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> No, Linux doesn't support most hardware pieces and barely has any software. The OS also looks and behaves like Windows 2000 or something. We've already got an obvious loser.


If you think that's bad, I deliberately went out of my way to find a lightweight interface setup similar to what classic windows used. When I have nothing running, only about 50mb of RAM is used. I like things lightweight and efficient, that way I can put resources towards whatever it's really needed for.


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## yodamerlin (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @Monado_III
> Hardware support is an issue, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux#Hardware_support
> It's for no-lifes because nearly everything is command line based so you need to remember all the silly commands and flags to do most things.
> One thing I forget is gaming support is nearly non-existent.
> ...


I also agree with the commands, but you have to do that with windows too, 'cause, you know, who uses the GUI. Obviously everyone uses the command prompt, and has to remember all those illogical command names, and a lack of tab completion. Also, you can't expand the size of it. It's so difficult to use Windows.


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## Monado_III (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @Monado_III
> Hardware support is an issue, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux#Hardware_support
> It's for no-lifes because nearly everything is command line based so you need to remember all the silly commands and flags to do most things.
> One thing I forget is gaming support is nearly non-existent.
> ...


LOL you read that link right? It says right there that "This is not so much the case now. You can grab a PC (or laptop) and most likely get one or more Linux distributions to install and work nearly 100 percent." Linux once had a problem with drivers and stuff but that's the past, it's improved dramatically now.


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## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @Monado_III
> Hardware support is an issue, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux#Hardware_support


It says that it WAS an issue. In fact, everything works in my PC without installing any driver (except for the optional proprietary video driver.)


BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @Monado_IIIOne thing I forget is gaming support is nearly non-existent


It's growing very quickly.


BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @Monado_III
> the bash terminal is even visually bugged sometimes when you scroll through text and such.


I've never had such "bugs".


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

Alright, so Linux is catching on but it still doesn't mean Windows isn't superior so that's all. May I ask you Linux nerds something? Why does nobody use your OS? Yeah, because it sucks and I told you many reasons why. Also the big commercial Windows applications are unmatched. Here's the operating system marketshare by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_laptop_computers
Numbers don't lie. People are using Windows because it's great. Will you surpass 1% soon? How cute.


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## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Alright, so Linux is catching on but it still doesn't mean Windows isn't superior so that's all. May I ask you Linux nerds something? Why does nobody use your OS? Yeah, because it sucks and I told you many reasons why. Also the big commercial Windows applications are unmatched. Here's the marketshare by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_laptop_computers
> Numbers don't lie. People are using Windows for a good reason.


Just because it's preinstalled on most PCs it doesn't mean it's the best.
Numbers don't lie:


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## Monado_III (Aug 22, 2015)

yodamerlin said:


> I agree. Linux has no software.


And Wine sucks at running anything. (Including lots of apps made by people from gbatemp)


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## yodamerlin (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Alright, so Linux is catching on but it still doesn't mean Windows isn't superior so that's all. May I ask you Linux nerds something? Why does nobody use your OS? Yeah, because it sucks and I told you many reasons why. Also the big commercial Windows applications are unmatched. Here's the operating system marketshare by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_laptop_computers
> Numbers don't lie. People are using Windows because it's great. Will you surpass 1% soon? How cute.


Scroll down a bit, look at the only one that is increasing.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> Just because it's preinstalled on most PCs it doesn't mean it's the best.
> Numbers don't lie: View attachment 23786


Like I said, it's for no-life nerds which are clearly in the majority on this forum (hence gaming console hacking and such). Everyone else doesn't use Linux, it's not well suited for the average user.


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## TecXero (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Alright, so Linux is catching on but it still doesn't mean Windows isn't superior so that's all. May I ask you Linux nerds something? Why does nobody use your OS? Yeah, because it sucks and I told you many reasons why. Also the big commercial Windows applications are unmatched. Here's the marketshare by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_and_laptop_computers
> Numbers don't lie. People are using Windows for a good reason. Will you surpass 1% soon? How cute.


Yeah, because Windows is designed for the average consumer. Linux is still very niche and specialized. Sure there's a few distributions being designed for more general and ease of use. Even then, Linux is still ending up more places. For example: Android is built on Linux. I wouldn't recommend even Ubuntu to the average consumer yet. Ubuntu has come pretty far, but I bet my average customer could still screw it up somehow.

For general use by the general person, I'd say Windows is still better. I'd also say it's still better for gaming. That said, Linux is better for those looking for something more specialized or more efficient and has the knowledge to manage it.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> On Windows, hardware pieces always work



*spits imaginary drink on the monitor*

Do what now? Granted I do often deal in some more specialist hardware but I have endless fun dealing with hardware not being supported on newer versions of windows (or indeed not being supported in older but still current versions) or shifting to X64 versions, device makers going out of business/rejigging websites and losing drivers along the way, hardware incompatibilities between devices (though many of these are more vendor level than OS level so forgivable to an extent), windows losing support for certain hardware types as versions of windows drag on and more besides.


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## nastys (Aug 22, 2015)

Monado_III said:


> And Wine sucks at running anything. (Including lots of apps made by people from gbatemp)


Most important apps work fine, even Office 2007 and 2010 work without issues.


BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Like I said, it's for no-life nerds which are clearly in the majority on this forum (hence gaming console hacking and such). Everyone else doesn't use Linux, it's not well suited for the average user.


Whether it's suited or not depends on the knowledge of the user.
A Windows user knows how to use Windows, and may not even know about Ubuntu and others, so Windows would be an obvious choise for them.
If someone wants to use a PC for the first time, Ubuntu would be better, unless they need a specific Windows-only program. The time needed to learn the OS is the same (or even less.)


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Aug 22, 2015)

@FAST6191:
If a device is very old then why do you bother still using it? Also specialist hardware obviously isn't part of the standard so you can't expect it to be recognized/supported so your point is kinda missed. All half-popular devices are supported and I never had problems until now (10 years). Another question would be if Linux does it better? Nope.

---

Also to continue my point, here's another link to take a look at: http://downtoearthlinux.com/posts/11-reasons-to-avoid-linux/


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## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @FAST6191:
> If a device is very old then why do you bother still using it? Also specialist hardware obviously isn't part of the standard so you can't expect it to be recognized/supported so your point is kinda missed. All half-popular devices are supported and I never had problems until now (10 years). Another question would be if Linux does it better? Nope.



It's still usable till it completely gives out. My pops still uses two shitty Acer laptops that have the screen hinges broken but aside that, they work fine with Linux distros.


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## Monado_III (Aug 22, 2015)

nastys said:


> Most important apps work fine, even Office 2007 and 2010 work without issues.


That was sarcasm, the link links to a list of fairly popular games that run well via Wine.


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## TecXero (Aug 22, 2015)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> @FAST6191:
> If a device is very old then why do you bother still using it? Also specialist hardware obviously isn't part of the standard so you can't expect it to be recognized/supported so your point is kinda missed. All half-popular devices are supported and I never had problems until now (10 years). Another question would be if Linux does it better? Nope.


The first question I have an answer for. I have an old PC I keep around for some older PC games that don't quite work properly under VMs. I have a backup of all the drivers for its hardware, because good luck finding them today.
As for the second question. A lot of more user friendly distros have pretty good generic stacks that will work with just about anything you throw at it. Might not be the most optimal. It's generally (but not always) better to use the official proprietary drivers if available. That said, if you're using a proprietary USB device that only has a driver for Windows, we'll you're out of luck on Linux outside of using VMs.


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## kuwanger (Aug 22, 2015)

As a relatively long-term Linux user, I'd tend to say Linux is better at the things it does but not very good at things it doesn't do. 

Seriously, though, the biggest gripes I have about Linux are three things:  1) that a ton of games are still Windows-only, 2) that WINE as great as it is is still a 50/50 chance of games not working (apps it's more like 90/10, in my experience), and 3) that a combination of OEMs and hardware makers are so quick to void warranties over one's use of Linux.

For (1), the situation has improved a lot in part to things like the Humble Bundle (which helped spell out that Linux users spend the most*), in part due to SteamOS, and generally in part to a lot of games being based on game engines which have always been relatively portable due to running on multiple consoles.  In fact that last part is one of the major reasons why games for a long time were Windows-only:  they targeted the XBox or PS/2 and were Windows-only (if at all) ports.  Overall, though, the situation keeps improving.

For (2), well, WINE is still a long ways away from being a bastion of working for games.  The 50/50 number I state is from my experience with ~300 non-Linux Windows games and a lot of tweaking.  Honestly, I don't see the situation improving any time soon on this front, so I can only hope that either (a) the situation with (1) keeps improving or (b) we finally get a VM that does 3D right (although that'll probably take a huge shift in the 3D gfx hardware market as secure isolation is a big root of the problem).

For (3), it just sucks.  Thankfully it's often cheaper to custom buy one's hardware from a small shop than to go with an OEM (exceptions for laptops and very low end setups (<$400)).

Honestly, though, I switched to Linux because as a programmer it just made sense to me that if I'm going to use an OS that has bugs, and all do, that if I ever got to the point that I was really frustrated enough to work to fix said bug, I could actually reasonably do so without threats of lawsuits over claims of extortion, anti-reverse engineering EULAs, or the hassle of binary hack debugging for years**.  So, to me that's the reason open source is generally better.  But, that's definition a YMMV.

* Lying with statistics.  1-2% of users use Linux (excluding Android, iOS, etc which are a whole other thing).  Linux users pay ~50% more.  So, effectively 1.5-3% of Windows users in aggregate.  Take the fixed cost of porting software (and hopefully the low variable cost of continuous support), and you've got an idea on if it's worth it or not.

** Because a rom hack targets a specific version, but OS files can update regularly totally breaking any sort of binary auto-patcher.  Same could be said of a software patch, but then most open source projects aren't hostile to incorporating a software fix into their repository...unless you go out of your way to intentionally antagonize them first *then* submit a patch.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 22, 2015)

Some of this gear was not that old. Also why still use it? Because it works, consumables were still at hand, it does a task and replacing it with a shiny new device would cost a fortune (or at least be a pointless expense), which given the hardware still functions in a fashion that works for the tasks asked of it is a hard sell.

Some of it is industrial or specialist tech (though when the cost of said tech is enough to buy a house with, and it earns as much again for a company over the course of a few months...). Other things are rare and old music gear but stuff that is hard to find/get equivalents for in the modern world (there are a lot of nice audio chips out there that were made in the 80s and 90s before we all went all digital/software based). Other things still are perfectly functional printers, or even printers with serious capabilities, that the manufacturers, let alone third parties, are quite content to still sell me ink, toner, heads, fusers... for. Other things still are what was then still serviceable hardware -- I had some popular Asus/Asrock motherboards that I had to force the Vista drivers for sound through as they were not updated for 7. Today said boards are not much cop but at the time they were fine, what was worse was some of those had designed for windows vista stuff on the fronts of the machines (now we probably both remember how much of a farce designed for/compatible with Vista was but it was cause to raise an eyebrow).
You might well not have had problems; if so you were either lucky, deliberately purchased hardware with long support lifetimes or did not play with much hardware.

Likewise this does not distract from device vendors going out of business/being purchased and websites vanishing. Get it into Linux and it is probably going to be in a repo somewhere, if not as source, until the end of time.

Does Linux do it better? Actually yeah it kind of does. If it gains support at one point then you can probably get it working in a later version down the line, it might not be the easiest if you must continue to use a given distro and it might not be built in by default any more -- on Windows it has occasionally come down to I reverse engineer the thing and write my own drivers, I stick an old version of windows in virtualbox (not always an option) or I buy some hideous monstrosity of an embedded controller. Similarly make a driver that is incompatible with another, or is otherwise a piece of spaghetti code, and there is a decent chance it will go through Windows validation if you pay MS their money and it does not take out the operating system. If you are going anywhere near the heart of the machine (a basic module is one thing, and the module system is even designed as such) and you try to submit said same thing to the Linux kernel and you are likely to see it sent back at you, not foolproof but I would definitely rate the Linux kernel folks over MS driver signing by a long way.


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## jonthedit (Aug 23, 2015)

Come on guys. No need to get hostile. I am surprised at @BullyWiiPlaza's response, considering his work with Gecko Codes.

Keep this civil 

I do understand BullyWiiPlaza's points; sometimes identical software does not exist cross platform- alternates do, but sometimes that will not cut it.


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## RodrigoDavy (Aug 23, 2015)

I am a Linux fan and user, but I'll try to be neutral.

- Linux is not anywhere near perfect with hardware support. Nvidia and AMD (with the default open-source drivers), some WiFi cards, old LCD monitors and chinese usb gadgets might have some problems. Linux does have better support than Windows for older hardware.
- Linux is very safe. I honestly never got a virus or malware using Linux. Not even those toolbars Windows app tend to have hidden in their installers.
- Linux is not easy to use. But honestly I think it's a lot easier than most people think. Heck, I think it's way more difficult to use OS X, the first time I used it I could not even copy and paste a file. If you need help with Linux though, good luck finding a friend who also use it.
- Linux doesn't have as much apps and games. You will have to find alternatives. Some apps might work fine in a distro and not at all in another too, though this is rare from my experience.

- Windows have better hardware support overall. But it has shitty support for older hardware.
- Windows is incredibly unsafe and blaming it's immense popularity is somewhat naive. The biggest problem is that Windows just wasn't designed with security in mind.
- Windows is not easy to use. Seriously, the control panel and the Start Menu (for fuck's sake) nowadays is nothing short of a nightmare. However it's very easy to find a friend who knows how to use Windows (or at the very least Google) to help you.
- Windows has a great software catalog. Only some really old software might not run.



JoostinOnline said:


> What version of Windows do you have?  With the latest two versions, Microsoft rolls out a few updates every couple of days.  They install quick.  I also suppose it depends on how often you restart.  If they build up (like how it is when you first install Windows), they take forever.


I used Windows 8.1. The problem may be that I only use Windows ocassionaly, usually for a specific game or software. I did update to Windows 10 recently and it seems the problem got better


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## Monado_III (Aug 23, 2015)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I am a Linux fan and user, but I'll try to be neutral.
> 
> - Linux is not anywhere near perfect with hardware support. Nvidia and AMD (with the default open-source drivers), some WiFi cards, old LCD monitors and chinese usb gadgets might have some problems with windows. Linux does have better support than Windows for older hardware.
> - Linux is very safe. I honestly never got a virus or malware using Linux. Not even those toolbars Windows app tend to have hidden in their installers.
> ...


I have lots of 'friends' who can help me. 
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-forums-50/
http://askubuntu.com/ (technically Ubuntu, but most answers work on any distro)
http://unix.stackexchange.com/
+ the quadrillion distro-oriented forums (http://fedoraforum.org/ http://forums.debian.net/ https://forums.opensuse.org/forum.php etc.).


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## Duo8 (Aug 23, 2015)

Monado_III said:


> I have lots of 'friends' who can help me.
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-forums-50/
> http://askubuntu.com/ (technically Ubuntu, but most answers work on any distro)
> http://unix.stackexchange.com/
> + the quadrillion distro-oriented forums (http://fedoraforum.org/ http://forums.debian.net/ https://forums.opensuse.org/forum.php etc.).


Arch wiki as well.


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## RodrigoDavy (Aug 23, 2015)

Monado_III said:


> I have lots of 'friends' who can help me.
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-forums-50/
> http://askubuntu.com/ (technically Ubuntu, but most answers work on any distro)
> http://unix.stackexchange.com/
> + the quadrillion distro-oriented forums (http://fedoraforum.org/ http://forums.debian.net/ https://forums.opensuse.org/forum.php etc.).


You're absolutely right. The problem is the average human being is just too lazy to do a simple Google search. 

For those that do search for a solution in these websites, I think having to use the terminal in some cases ends up being a deal breaker to many people. I love the Linux Shell, but since most of my friends never had any experience with DOS or a command line, I can see how this could be something alien to most users.


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## Monado_III (Aug 23, 2015)

Duo8 said:


> Arch wiki as well.


I can't tell you how many times the Arch wiki has helped me.


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## Duo8 (Aug 23, 2015)

RodrigoDavy said:


> You're absolutely right. The problem is the average human being is just too lazy to do a simple Google search.
> 
> For those that do search for a solution in these websites, I think having to use the terminal in some cases ends up being a deal breaker to many people. I love the Linux Shell, but since most of my friends never had any experience with DOS or a command line, I can see how this could be something alien to most users.


Literally copy and paste.


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## Taleweaver (Aug 23, 2015)

Tough choice here. I voted linux, though I seldomly use it on a PC.

First things first: an OS is used for more than just  a desktop PC. On servers and super computers, linux is a force to be reckoned with (or doesn't even have competition). And let's not forget the mobile market: android is in essence linux, so that's to be taken into account as well.

Now...microsoft is certainly no slacker. They sort of have the tendency to release every other OS as somewhat of a "testing the waters" ground (ME, vista, 8), but the progression is certainly good.
Which, in a way, is almost too bad, as it puts me in a dilemma. I know the advantages of linux, and when it works I'd say it's better than windows...but the fact that not all software works is an important one. I'll certainly make the switch once wine runs everything flawless (which I doubt will happen soon). But until then, I'll just keep with what works.
(and I'll be honest: the things I encounter in windows helps me deal with them at work as well...and I doubt they'll switch to linux on desktops soon).

EDIT: something else to consider: remote desktops and browser based programs using the cloud are getting more common in the business markets. While the trend is noticeable, it's hard what'll happen in the business future. Except perhaps that the choice of the actually used operating system becomes less important (if you work from a browser or connect to a remote PC, the OS on your PC is hardly important). And since linux is free...it could be that new companies and established companies without too many OS dependencies could go for linux to save costs somewhere in the near future...


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## RodrigoDavy (Aug 23, 2015)

Taleweaver said:


> I'll certainly make the switch once wine runs everything flawless (which I doubt will happen soon).


I don't think this will ever happen. The best bet for a Linux user would be to use a Virtual Machine with Windows installed, that way you have true 100% compatibility. (Not an ideal solution if you want to run games though)


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 23, 2015)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I don't think this will ever happen. The best bet for a Linux user would be to use a Virtual Machine with Windows installed, that way you have true 100% compatibility. (Not an ideal solution if you want to run games though)


I think the best bet is to use Linux software.
Right now the only thing that is really really missing is many AAA games.
But many things are also missing in windows and present in Linux. Specially things that make scientific work and development easier, and the beautifulness of package managers.

Below, tl;dr:
For scientific work, everything is easier in Linux.
MATLAB goes great there, you also have a programming environment or if the box.
You have all kind of software available through your package manager, a lot of scientific software.
Even latex and friend feel right home there.
Development in general is more comfortable in Linux.

PS: and with some windows apps that are not available in Linux like AAA games you should actually use real windows, because they eat resources and perform terribly in a vm.


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## Flame (Aug 24, 2015)

Android Linux...

Here is why cause..

I'm flamesus.


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## jonthedit (Aug 24, 2015)

Flame said:


> Android Linux...
> 
> Here is why cause..
> 
> I'm flamesus.





jonthedit said:


> But apparently not enough holes
> My Verizon S5 still has no root available thanks to Verizons locked bootloader shit.


To that, I say 'Verizon'


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## Vipera (Aug 24, 2015)

Mac is the best.


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## RodrigoDavy (Aug 24, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Mac is the best.


I would say Mac's greatest feature is BootCamp


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## FAST6191 (Aug 24, 2015)

RodrigoDavy said:


> use a Virtual Machine with Windows installed, that way you have true 100% compatibility. (Not an ideal solution if you want to run games though)



Servers are increasingly using graphics cards these days and with server virtualisation being probably the main driving force of development there it is leaking into the desktop side of things. I do not know when we will see it in virtualbox, much less as developed as the network or USB passthrough options virtualbox provides, but I am going with sooner rather than later.
When combined with the remote desktop options of said desktop virtual machines I reckon something very special could happen, doubly so in countries with decent uploads.


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## Flame (Aug 24, 2015)

jonthedit said:


> To that, I say 'Verizon'


To that, I say you should root it yourself.

To that, I say you shouldnt have not got a Verizon phone.

To that, I say you should have got a root friendly phone. Say a nexus.


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## Pleng (Aug 27, 2015)

Monado_III said:


> "This is not so much the case now. You can grab a PC (or laptop) and most likely get one or more Linux distributions to install and work nearly 100 percent."



Yea because when I install an OS, what I _really_ look forward to is having it work _nearly_ 100%. I also like raincoats that are _almost_ 100% waterproof, and drinking water that is _pretty much_ 100% safe to drink 

Having said that, that 'nearly 100%' did come in handy when I needed to fire up an old laptop. The previous Windows XP install was totally broken. On any new hardware I'd just install Win 7 or 8, and enjoy the hardware just working out of the box. Unfortunately the machine wasn't up to running Windows 8 (I did actually try - it installed but was in no way useable), and I didn't fancy going through the nightmare process of finding WinXP drivers for everything, so an XUbuntu install got the machine into an operable state.


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## Dr.Hacknik (Sep 25, 2015)

I like Windows...But my current OS's are Ubuntu & Mac OSX Yosemite (Both on my desktop's) and Windows 10 & Ubuntu on my Laptop.

It's just that playing games on Ubuntu is Hell!


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