# [BFWWIWA] Issue #1 - Sega Saturn



## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

If you took a journey back in time to the early 90's, you could witness a console war of such proportions that contemporary clashes pale in comparison and can only be called petty squabbles. Two giants, Nintendo and Sega, fought for supremacy on the battlefields of the console market with the SNES and the Mega Drive/Genesis going head-to-head. Of course, as time passed, both companies were pressed to release successors to their systems, especially Sega whose image was tarnished by the less-than-spectacular CD add-on for their system.

Sega is a peculiar company and such was its approach towards console development in the fifth, their penultimate generation of video game consoles. The need for new systems was increasing as both the SNES and the Mega Drive/Genesis were rapidly showing signs of aging. Knowing that their competitors, Nintendo and Sony, were already working on their consoles, Sega executives realized that they have to push a next generation system out, and they need to do it soon. As such, two projects were launched – Project Jupiter, started in 1993, which would later become the Sega Saturn, and Project Mars, started in 1994, which would culminate in the release of the Sega 32X, originally intended to be a Mega Drive/Genesis-based entry level next generation system able to satiate the need for 3D games before the Saturn is released, but eventually just another unsuccessful Mega Drive/Genesis add-on. This is the story of the former.

[prebreak]Continue reading[/prebreak]

The Hardware




Sega Saturn Model 2 with the Model 2 Controller, image courtesy of Wikipedia.org​


> Specs Sheet:​
> 
> 2x SuperH-2 7604 32-bit RISC processors at 28.63 MHz with 4kB Cache
> Hitachi Video Display Processor _(VDP)_ 1 32-bit at 28.63 MHz responsible for sprites and polygons
> ...


 
Stylistically the Saturn takes many cues from its granddad – the Mega Drive/Genesis. Sharp and rounded edges, rectangles, circles and ovals are seamlessly blended into a big, sturdy-looking box – it’s clearly built to last and it looks bold. The controller ports are situated on its front face, all of the other ports are on the back of the system. On the top we can see the Power, Open and Reset buttons, the stylish, budging lid with a small window through which you can see the disc inside and a cartridge slot for expansions. The system has no memory card slots – it was one of the very first systems with on-board memory for save files, powered by a button battery held in a compartment at the back of the system. This memory makes the Saturn pretty collector-friendly – aside from a few games that required expansion RAM, the basic kit consisting of the cables, the controller and the system is all you’ll ever need to enjoy the gross majority of its library of games.

The basic controller is very similar to that of the Mega Drive/Genesis, sporting seven function buttons labeled A, B, C, X, Y, Z and Start and a comfortable D-Pad. Additionally, the system has two shoulder buttons. Aside from the standard controller, the system also supports a variety of add-ons, both licensed by Sega and by third parties, including driving wheels, light guns, arcade controllers and joysticks, as well as the fabled 3D controller released later on which included an analog stick – the grandfather of the Dreamcast controller. If you like to customize your gaming experience, the Saturn will certainly cater to your needs.

The Saturn was quite a powerhouse for its time. With the PlayStation looming over the horizon and Nintendo hard at work, Sega knew that nothing below par could possibly succeed on the market. Although originally the then Jupiter was supposed to be powered by a single SH-2 CPU, it was given an additional one, and later a second VDP as well, to ensure that whatever Sony had in-store could be matched or surpassed. The system became a PlayStation 3 of its time. With two CPU’s, two GPU’s and four additional processors you could only describe it in one way – immensely powerful, but heavily over-engineered. With the same breath it has to be said that it was also very much prophetic, as today multi-CPU, multi-GPU development is something we usually take for granted.

From the graphics side of things, Saturn is wrongly assumed to be a 2D powerhouse, but a poor 3D machine. In fact, the Saturn trumped both the Nintendo 64 and the PlayStation in sheer geometry rendering prowess out-of-the-box. The system was capable of pushing 500 000 flat-shaded polygons or 300 000 textured ones. In comparison, the PlayStation could render 360 000 flat-shaded or 180 000 textured poly's while the Nintendo 64 was able to render 150 000 flat-shaded polygons and around 100 000 textured ones using standard Nintendo microcode – it technically could render more than the Saturn, but it required customizing microcode or utilizing Turbo3D microcode which was outright banned by Nintendo. As far as 2D was concerned, the Saturn was a developer’s dream. With plenty of memory to store all the sprites, the option to expand this memory further via the cartridge slot and two co-processors dedicated to processing sprites and backgrounds, the system was capable of supporting 2D games of arcade quality with ease.

Much like the Nintendo 64, the Saturn was also capable of rendering graphics at what was then considered _“high resolution”_. While the PlayStation mostly outputted at 320x240 with some exceptions at 640x480, the Nintendo 64 reached 640x480 without breaking a sweat and the Sega Saturn could output video at 640x480 and beyond at circa 60 FPS. This allowed for never-seen-before fluidity of motion and crisp graphics, as seen in the Saturn port of Virtua Fighter 2 which runs at a staggering resolution of 704x480 _(NTSC)_/704x512 _(PAL)_ at 57.5 FPS – it’s something you just have to see for yourself.

"The Saturn Cannot Triforce"

With so much horsepower at their fingertips, why did developers complain in regards to Saturn game development? There’s a number of reasons which I’ll briefly explore.

Firstly, the system was very exotic, the complex architecture posed a difficulty for developers and often required engines to be re-coded from the ground up to squeeze the most out of the peculiar hardware. Programming for multiple processors was not commonplace at the time and it didn’t help that both CPU’s utilized the same bus and as such could not access memory registers at the same time - to combat this problem, each of the processors was given 4kB of cache memory. Yu Suzuki, the mind behind the Virtua Fighter series commented on this problem saying that _“Only 1 out of 100 programmers are good enough”_ to utilize both effectively, and history proves his assertion to be true. Saturn development was difficult and to push the system to its limits, developers had to learn how to parallelize their code. Unfortunately, this was not something they particularly wanted to do, which is why plenty of Saturn games simply use only one of the two processors, keeping the other one sleeping soundly.

Secondly, at the time of its release, the Saturn lacked in software libraries and development tools – this hindered development as it required programmers to experiment. The problem was later mended by Sega by releasing standardized 3D libraries wrapped into an OS. Unfortunately, there were some other issues which could not be mended by software and sprang from the Saturn’s design.

The Saturn did not support UV coordinates which caused texture clipping issues, but more importantly, the _“Saturn Cannot Triforce”_, or rather, the _“Saturn Cannot Triangle”_ in general. The system was designed in an era when 3D development was still in its infancy and development standards were not yet set in stone. It was designed to render quadrilateral polygons, not triangular polygons which we use today - it was this attribute of the hardware that gave Virtua Fighter its specific, blocky, yet endearing style. To generate a triangular face, the developers had to _“waste”_ one vertice by setting its position to _“0,0,0”_ - by doing so, they could render quadrilateral faces which appeared to be triangular. This forced developers to re-work their textures and made multiplatform development more time-consuming. In some games, this provided a better approximation of perspective and lowering the total polygon count in comparison to other platforms – rectangular faces could be generated as one quadrilateral instead of two triangles. In other games where triangles could not be replaced, it caused issues, as seen in the Sega Saturn port of Tomb Raider by Core Design. If that wasn't enough problems, the VDP's of the Saturn were aged and complicated to use, especially for hardware-accelerated effects such as transparency or light sources, while the other two systems could render them perfectly fine. As such, the Saturn had to make-due with frame buffer tricks and other programming work-arounds. The Saturn also had no means of hardware-based video decompression, which posed difficulties when using FMV's.

"But Foxi, the Saturn has No Games!"

That was all history and hardware talk – hardly good reasons to own a video game system. What really matters for gamers are the games and unfortunately, in this regard the Saturn is often overlooked – wrongly so. The Saturn has plenty of games, 596 of them in fact, and a slew of them are exclusives with an arcade flair rarely seen on any other system – a trademark of the machine. These few are specifically worth your attention, but I’m merely touching the tip of the ice berg – the platform has loads more to offer.

Burning Rangers

​
​Burning Rangers is a game about as peculiar as the system it’s on. It’s an action game in which we take charge of one of the firefighters of the future, the titular Burning Rangers, and venture into the depths of buildings ablaze, rescuing hostages and putting down fires in the rhythm of the catchy soundtrack. Interestingly, you are not given any form of a map to aid you in your exploration – instead, you have to listen to the instructions of your navigator while simultaneously using your sense of hearing to avoid traps. It’s one of those games that you have to try at least once – it’s very original, very entertaining, very arcade-like and well-suited for the Saturn.

Panzer Dragoon Zwei

​

Imagine you were to play StarFox, except instead of the spaceships you were flying on dragons. Yup, huge primordial beasts floating way up in the air, and you’re riding one. It’s a sequel to the Saturn’s launch title Panzer Dragoon, featuring numerous engine improvements, buttery freamerates, addicting, fast-paced gameplay and beautiful, high resolution graphics. This game literally could not be any cooler, and with the upcoming spiritual successor entitled Crimson Dragon on its way to the XBox One, it’s worth to have a go at this game and see where it all came from.

Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition

​
ROLLING STAAAART! Yep, it’s that game – it’s Daytona USA, the arcade-est of all arcade racing games. This reworked edition of the game includes an improved engine with reduced pop-in and 3D Controller compatibility, additional cars, tracks and the same, beloved soundtrack along with its remixes. If you like arcade racers, you’ll like Daytona USA - a lot.

Virtua Cop 2

​

If you ever wished to be a cop with infinite ammunition and loads of crooks to shoot, Virtua Cop 2 will help you realize those dreams of total carnage. From bank robberies to intense car chases, the game has it all and it will keep you on the edge of your seat all the way through. It’s one of the best rail shooters ever made – it’s fast-paced, it has a great soundtrack, it has bosses, it has a variety of weapons, in short, it has everything a rail shooter fan needs to squee in glee.

NiGHTS into Dreams…

​
You can’t even begin to talk about the Sega Saturn without talking about NiGHTS. If Super Mario 64 was Nintendo’s vision on how the player is supposed to move in 3D space then NiGHTS was Sega’s. In short, the game is about Nightopia and Nightmare, two parts of the dream world and the struggle against Nightmare as it tries to take over and eventually seep into the real world. Elliot and Claris, the protagonists of the game take command of Nights, a Nightmaren creature created by the evil Wizeman who betrayed his master as it learned of his plot to take over the world and do their best to save both realms… which involves flying through hoops. The game is as fun as it is bizzare and it does give the player an odd sense of flight, if that makes sense. This game was bundled with the 3D Controller and uses it extensively, but it can be played with the standard Saturn gamepad as well.

Why Did it Fail?

​

There’s a number of reasons why the Saturn failed commercially. Despite the development difficulties, the Sega Saturn managed to enjoy a consistent flow of video game releases which only slowed down close to its discontinuation date, most its problems actually laid in the system’s marketing as well as in Sega's previous, unusccessful hardware ventures.

Originally the 32X and the Saturn were supposed to be sold concurrently, the 32X being the low-end, entry level machine and the Saturn being the high-end _"true"_ next generation system. Unfortunately, the 32X never reached a sustainable level of popularity and was subsequently canned. Neither the 32X nor the Sega CD/Mega CD were successful on the market which caused doubts in the minds of Sega's customers. People didn't know if this was the real deal, if the Saturn was going to be supported or not and whether or not it will be canned in a few months, and those doubts severely stalled hardware sales.

The Saturn was pretty successful on its home turf in Japan but failed miserably outside of it, quickly losing momentum to the PlayStation and the Nintendo 64. The marketing miscommunication was particularly harmful to it in North America, where during E3 1995, Sega of America’s president Tom Kalinske announced that the system was available in stores effective immediately instead of sticking by the planned date of 2nd of September 1995, dubbed “Saturnday”. With little games and consoles in stock, retailers simply weren’t ready to begin distributing the machine and some were so downright offended by this move that they refused to distribute it at all. In Europe, the release date was far too close to the PlayStation’s, effectively diverting attention from Sega’s system. Poor marketing led to losing ground to the competition – the Saturn never enjoyed the popularity of its predecessor. The Saturn’s saving grace was its homeland – Japan, where Segata Sanshiro, the console’s mascot karateka went viral and effectively marketed it nation-wide – God bless his soul, may he rest in peace.

Emulation, Backups and Homebrew

There are two Sega Saturn emulators available online – the multi-platform Yabause and PC-only SSF, the latter being almost perfectly accurate. That being said, the Saturn is a particularly difficult system to emulate – there’s nothing quite like owning the real deal, at least in my opinion. As for the Backups...

​
The Sega Saturn features a rather interesting anti-piracy measure. The discs, aside from the data and music sections, feature a special ring burned into them. This ring cannot be replicated on a standard CD burner as it’s more like an image on the surface of the disc than actual data. This however can be countered by performing a swap trick using an original Saturn game – once the ring is read, most games will work perfectly fine. The only modification required is taping down the button responsible for detecting whether the lid is open or closed – all you need is a screwdriver and a bit of duct tape.

If you don’t want to bother with swapping or don’t want to stress the motor too much, Sega Saturn modchips are available online and affordable – they won’t set you back more than $30-40. The modchip will feed the system with the security ring data when it requests it, nullifying the problem. That being said, it will not make the system region free - your burnt backups will have to match your system's region, so use Saturn Region Patcher to make sure that they match.

You can also disable the check using a Sega Saturn System Disc – there are two available online, coded KD01 and KD02 for first and third-party games respectively. By booting those with a swap trick, you can disable the security check entirely for all subsequent reboots of the system until you power it off fully. Compatibility is spotty, but it’s still worth a try.

​

As far as Homebrew for the system is concerned the Saturn's scene is rather small, but it does see periodical releases despite the system's complexity. The Saturn was fortunate enough to be the subject of an annual coding contest called C4 which ran between 2005 and 2007 and resulted in a couple interesting pieces being released. The Homebrew library of the system includes a Sega Master System emulator SMS Plus, a Sierra AGI emulator Sarien, an Atari 2600 emulator by VBT, a FinalBurn Alpha port, a couple of interesting homebrew games such as Virtua Mario and a slew of demos.

​

When dealing with Sega Saturn homebrew, it's worth to download a special tool called Atlas by The Rockin'-B. Atlas allows you to pack up to 50 Saturn games, applications and demos onto one disc, greatly facilitating booting and minimizing disc-shuffling. The video above contains entries from the 2006 C4 contest, it's worth a look.




​If for whatever reason you are interested in Sega Saturn software development today, Game Basic might be a tool to your liking. The set consists of a special cable, a disc with PC tools, a Saturn disc and two hefty instruction booklets with everything you needed to know about coding for the platform. Unfortunately, it beats me where you could find one of those today, so it's more of an interesting tidbit. That being said, the Game Basic kit gave birth to a large number of fun homebrew pieces, including Virtua Mario.

Seeing that you're unlikely to find the above kit easily aside from the occasional, rare EBay auctions, I'm afraid that the only other option is plowing through the numerous tomes of documentation about the system - there's quite a bit of it online, along with the proper tools of the trade.​
What do I Need With it?

If you’re planning on playing original import games, you might want to purchase an Action Replay cartridge. It features an additional RAM pack which allows for compatibility with the few titles that need more memory than the stock Saturn provides, memory for additional save states, cheat codes for various games but most importantly, a region unlocker allowing you to boot games from any region on your system. If you don’t want to bother with one, you can use Saturn Region Patcher to change the game’s region and burn backup discs with ease. If imports are not your thing, the basic set is more than sufficient to provide you with hours upon hours of fun.

But Foxi, Would I *Really* Want One?

Do you like unique games? If you answered “yes” then you should open a new tab in your browser and start looking for one already. The Saturn is available cheaply and for a system which didn’t sell too many units, there’s a vast number of various revisions available. Ideally you’d want a Model 1 since it features a drive access light, making disc swapping a breeze to perform, but if you plan on only playing original copies, the world is your oyster – there’s revisions a-plenty, especially Japanese ones, both from Sega themselves as well as from Hitachi and Samsung.

With its library of exclusive games and its arcade feel, the Saturn is definitely a console you won’t regret buying. It’s a piece of gaming history and although it was an underdog in its respective generation, today it has a lot to offer to retro game collectors. There’s just nothing quite like the Saturn out there and its advertising campaign was true to its word – the Saturn is ready for the future, and that future is now.

​


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## FAST6191 (Feb 2, 2014)

No mention of Saturn bomberman? And the article was otherwise doing so well.


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## gamefan5 (Feb 2, 2014)

Ryukouki, Foxi4 and Gahars posting serious, interesting and entertaining articles?
Perhaps GBAtemp will FINALLY be able to have interesting debates here.

Interesting article, Foxi4. One full of nostalgia. XD


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## Ryukouki (Feb 2, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> Ryukouki, Foxi4 and Gahars posting serious, interesting and entertaining articles?
> Perhaps GBAtemp will FINALLY be able to have interesting debates here.
> 
> Interesting article, Foxi4. One full of nostalgia. XD


 

Give us a couple of weeks, and things should hopefully be in full swing. 

As far as the article, he knows this, but it's a great read! Keep them going!


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm planning to make _"BFWWIWA"_ a recurring feature, keep things interesting by posting about the underdogs and the top dogs - who knows? Maybe I'll make a couple systems sell on EBay. 


FAST6191 said:


> No mention of Saturn bomberman? And the article was otherwise doing so well.





> These few are specifically worth your attention, but I’m merely touching the tip of the ice berg – the platform has loads more to offer.


 
Shh, FAST, shh... No tears, only Segata Sanshiro now... _;O;_

inb4 Someone saying that Bomberman on the Saturn was a real blast.


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## GHANMI (Feb 2, 2014)

Problem is most of what made the Saturn popular in Japan is its excellent library over there that rarely gets localized at all.
But, as a system, it doesn't really get any fan-translations.
My favourites:

Astal
Super Tempo
Tryrush Deppy
Keio Flying Squadron 2
Megaman 8 (also on PS1, but as an inferior version)
Assault Suit Leynos 2
Keriotosse
Gulliver Boy
Tengai Makyou IV (also on PSP, updated)
Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari
Princess Crown (also on PSP)
Sakura Wars
Shining Wisdom
Shining Force III, all three parts of it
Saturn Bomberman
Legend of Oasis
Soukyugurentai Otokuyo
Albert Odyessy


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> But, as a system, it doesn't really get any fan-translations.


I won't lie - the system was difficult to develop for for actual game developers, let alone hackers. There's a couple translations floating around the web and not a whole lot of homebrew, but hey - some stuff exists.


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## Costello (Feb 2, 2014)

I wonder how many of us around here had a Saturn.
I have owned one and really enjoyed it, until my little brother broke it after he lost a game  (a game of Fifa 97)
That console was awesome and it had a lot of pretty good exclusives. 
One of the games that I remember playing most is Sonic R! Does that ring a bell to anyone else?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

I played Sonic R to death on PC. Funny story, I was a little brat, walked into the local game store to just stare at games I didn't have the petty cash to buy... and then I saw it - right there, on the shelf. What followed was an immediate phone call to dad and begging because, damnit, it's Sonic and it's right there.

He gave me the gil. Best purchase ever, I don't care what the reviews say.


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## Mr_Pichu (Feb 2, 2014)

Segata Sanshiro was truly a man amongst men.  His game was fun too.


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## retrofan_k (Feb 2, 2014)

I own 3 of them, 2 Jp Model 1's with a V3 Universal chip and a Model 2 Pal with a V3 Universal Chip + Multi region bios.  Very underrated console and paired up with a 4MB cart = Arcade perfect.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 2, 2014)

Why wouldn't you want a Sega Saturn


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## Clarky (Feb 2, 2014)

Is an awesome console for it's 2d games mainly but there are some great 3d games too. Resident Evil on the Saturn has a couple of exclusive features in it that never seemed to make there way to any other, I recall Mega Man 8 actually had 2 exclusive robot master fights in it, even Sonic 3D on it had some pretty cool music and a re-designed special stage, but man the loading times took the piss on it. Still this thread may inspire me to go boot Fighters Megamix up


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Sometime around '98 or '99, I was at my parents' house for a holiday and ran across my little brother's Saturn in a closet. (At the time I was approx 32 years old, and he was 25) I asked him about it and he said, "take it, but I've only got 3 games for it." He also only had one controller for it. My brother was never much of a gamer. Since the Saturn was discontinued, and the games were already starting to be too expensive to buy for anything but 'collecting,' I got a modchip and did what had to be done. I also bought a couple more controllers, and a lightgun. It still works, and it still gets hooked up regularly. Although I've got all those famous Saturn shmups, Virtua games, RPG's, Daytona USA, etc., my favorite game is Bug! 

I still need to get the 1mb and 4mb ram carts. Maybe when I'm in Osaka next spring I'll get them.



.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 2, 2014)

Growing up, I am not sure that I ever saw an advertisement for a Saturn or new somebody who owned one.  I do not even remember seeing them in the video stores.

The Dreamcast was good though.  Some of the games looked better than Half-Life and Quake.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> Growing up, I am not sure that I ever saw an advertisement for a Saturn or new somebody who owned one. I do not even remember seeing them in the video stores.


 

Launch price was $399. In 1995.


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## Clarky (Feb 2, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> Growing up, *I am not sure that I ever saw an advertisement for a Saturn* or new somebody who owned one. I do not even remember seeing them in the video stores.
> 
> The Dreamcast was good though. Some of the games looked better than Half-Life and Quake.


 
Not necessarily a Saturn advert but I recall one for a Saturn game Manx TT i think, one of the few adverts that showed off an unlockable being able to race as a sheep.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> I still need to get the 1mb and 4mb ram carts. Maybe when I'm in Osaka next spring I'll get them.


Don't - grab an Action Replay Plus cartridge instead as the text above recommends. If all you're looking for is the extra RAM, this will be a far better value purchase as it can run in both 1MB and 4MB modes. It looks like this:






...and it shouldn't set you back by more than $30-40. The only reason why you might want to grab the original carts would be collector's purposes, the AR Plus is simply more convenient - once you put it in the system, you'll probably never have to take it out. Comes in black and white, but the black ones appear to be more rare for some reason. I'm going to grab one myself in due time - for now I'm enjoying the standard library that doesn't require the expansion.




Hanafuda said:


> Launch price was $399. In 1995.


Yep, they truly were taking the piss with that kind of a pricetag. The Saturn really was the PlayStation 3 of its time in many ways.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> I still need to get the 1mb and 4mb ram carts. Maybe when I'm in Osaka next spring I'll get them.
> 
> 
> .


 


I should add to that ... I was in Tokyo last summer, and could've gotten those ram carts, but it would've blown my retro game budget. Instead, my money went into an AV Famicom and a Super Famicom Jr., both LNIB, a few famicom and super fami games, spare super fami controllers, an Orange Gamecube, etc etc ..... pretty much all Nintendo. 

But ... I did get this. Because of the price - 380yen.
That's right, this pristine white Saturn controller cost me about $3.70.







.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Launch price was $399. In 1995.


 

In 1995 I was allowed to watch a two hours of TV a week, so that might explain it. I don't remember if I ever played the original Playstation,but I had friends who had one at home, and you would see them in people's houses. With games like Goldeneye and Mario 64 coming out only about twelve months after the Saturn, it is no wonder it failed so badly.  It seemed like everyone was buying an N64 and those who weren't already had a PS1.

The PS1 was just as good at 2-D gaming, the SNES and Genesis had better 2-D games; some of them like Yoshi's Island even looked better than a lot of that "new" 32 bit side-scrolling action. The N64 was designed from the ground up to bring a whole level of new fidelity to 3-D gaming. Sega would have been better just waiting another two years.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> That's right, this pristine white Saturn controller cost me about $3.70.


Okay, where do I sign the shipping order form? I won't ask you to bring me a whole lot of stuff, just one metric tonne, please. _;O;_


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> I should add to that ... I was in Tokyo last summer, and could've gotten those ram carts, but it would've blown my retro game budget. Instead, my money went into an AV Famicom and a Super Famicom Jr., both LNIB, a few famicom and super fami games, spare super fami controllers, an Orange Gamecube, etc etc ..... pretty much all Nintendo.
> 
> But ... I did get this. Because of the price - 380yen.
> That's right, this pristine white Saturn controller cost me about $3.70.
> ...


 

Looks like it would work well as a Genesis controller too.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> Looks like it would work well as a Genesis controller too.


 


Unfortunately no, not without tearing it up and a lot of soldering. Not worth it.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Unfortunately no, not without tearing it up and a lot of soldering. Not worth it.


On the bright side, Mega Drive/Genesis controllers are not in short supply and I'd wager that they sell for about as much as Saturn ones.


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## Wisenheimer (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Unfortunately no, not without tearing it up and a lot of soldering. Not worth it.


 

I meant for emulation.  I' thought the Saturn had a controller that looked weirder than the Dreamcast, but I must be remembering it wrong.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

Wisenheimer said:


> I meant for emulation. I' thought the Saturn had a controller that looked weirder than the Dreamcast, but I must be remembering it wrong.


You probably mean this:


Spoiler










It was released later in the console's life cycle. Funky.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Oh, for emulation? Sure. I haven't looked into it but there are probably USB adapters to use a real Saturn controller on PC. What's weirder is that a few years ago, Sega actually made an official PC gamepad on the Saturn controller design. Not very common, but they're out there. Of course there are knockoff pc gamepads that look like Saturn controllers - those probably all suck.


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## DinohScene (Feb 2, 2014)

Only games I remember from the Saturn is Daytona and Virtua cop.
Along with Sonic.

Never owned a Saturn, mate of mine did.


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## freestile (Feb 2, 2014)

Hehe. I still have mine. And I even got the chip that was put out by racketboy or tennisboy r something. That had to be about 15 years ago, as I remember that was my first time even soldering anything like that. Too bad I didn't play it anymore. I wonder if it still even works? I outta try it out. I'm wondering what a good condition/working modded saturn would go for now days? I should keep it, but I'd be wiling to trade it for something equally as cool.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 2, 2014)

The Saturn is indeed a unique system, of which I've had little experience with but something I want to try more of one of these days. I've heard that some ports, like Grandia, is superior to the PSX version at least, framerate-wise, does that hold true? I also also Mega Man X4 and 8 were better (had extra graphic effects like heat shimmer, better soundtracks, etc).


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> The Saturn is indeed a unique system, of which I've had little experience with but something I want to try more of one of these days. I've heard that some ports, like Grandia, is superior to the PSX version at least, framerate-wise, does that hold true? I also also Mega Man X4 and 8 were better (had extra graphic effects like heat shimmer, better soundtracks, etc).


If it's a 2D console game, chances are that the Saturn version is the definitive one - the extra memory and 2D-dedicated hardware gave in the edge over its competitors. This mostly concerns SHMUP's and 2D fighting games which are excellent on the Saturn.

*EDIT:* My bad - for whatever reason I read Grandia as Gradius, hence the SHMUP reference.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 2, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> If it's a 2D console game, chances are that the Saturn version is the definitive one - the extra memory and 2D-dedicated hardware gave in the edge over its competitors. This mostly concerns SHMUP's and 2D fighting games which are excellent on the Saturn.


 

I've also heard Grandia on Saturn was better speed-wise, it was 3D, but used 2D sprites, haven't tried it myself, I'll give it whirl


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Agree. Here's a couple CGR reviews for maybe the best shmups on Saturn, Dodonpachi and Radiant Silvergun, and another for KoF97. Saturn was just damned beautiful at stuff like this.


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## zeello (Feb 2, 2014)

performance boost in Wipeout? that's odd, I remember playing the game and the frame rate was practically unplasyable . (and I've played demo of the game on ps1 so I know it wasn't meant to be that bad)

ironically I enjoyed tomb raider a lot more. The Saturn version is the only version of tomb raider I ever played. I never finished it though, I got stock in this one room with a rolling rock and caged door. iirc it was red floor and gold walls.


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## Mr_Pichu (Feb 2, 2014)

Yu Suzuki's - Namie Amuro Digital Dance Mix

One of my favorite Saturn non-game titles.


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## XiTaU (Feb 2, 2014)

I haven't seen any mention of Bulk Slash as of yet which is my favorite Saturn game.


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## Mr_Pichu (Feb 2, 2014)

My most favorite digital pinball game, Kaze's Necronomicon for the Sega Saturn


The soundtrack rocks!


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## Nah3DS (Feb 2, 2014)

Saturn is the SHMUP heaven! 
I love this console, so many great and unique games!


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## mightymuffy (Feb 2, 2014)

Not sure your article is 100% accurate Foxi, you missed out the reason WHY the Saturn ended up being such a complex mess with pretty much 2 of everything (was originally meant to be purely a 2D powerhouse early in its development, then PlayStation showed its face - plenty to explain there!). Also, the system was not a developers dream at all, mainly due to its sheer complexity..

Otherwise though, fabulous read up for a fabulous console! I'd also totally disagree with SSF being near perfect emulation, but then that just makes your point of 'buy one instead!' all the more true! 
*two thumbs up!*


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## Hadrian (Feb 2, 2014)

For 3D games...no.
2D arcade games...oh hell yes. I actually preferred a lot of 2D arcade games on the Saturn to the Playstation.

BTW I was gonna do something similar for the Sharp X6800 but I was too lazy. You do it, it would be better in your hands.

It's funny, I was kinda unaware of the Saturn being released back then, I heard it's name but never realised it was out. I think Nintendo seem to be experiencing the same thing now with the Wii U.

EDIT: I forgot to say say something to piss people off: Nights wasn't that good.


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## Mariko (Feb 2, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> If you don’t want to bother with swapping or don’t want to stress the motor too much, Sega Saturn modchips are available online and affordable


 
There's one thing I'd like to add here. Saturn modchips feed the ring data to the console, but won't overcome the region lock. You would still need an Action Replay for out-of-region games or backups. I know you mention Action Replay when talking about imports, but it should be clear that the modchip alone won't cut it, and people tend to assume it should.


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## Black-Ice (Feb 2, 2014)

Foxi gets my like for a beautiful article and his mention of NiGHTS.


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## CathyRina (Feb 2, 2014)

I never had a Saturn but Grandia, my favorite RPG of all time, originally came out on it so I love the system.
Also:


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## pyromaniac123 (Feb 2, 2014)

Wow Foxi, that was really interesting


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## Sym (Feb 2, 2014)

Great article. I had a saturn years ago and played tons of baseball on it lol. I don't remember what happened to it though. Nights was a blast too.


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## Dust2dust (Feb 2, 2014)

The Saturn was a great console, no doubts.  I remember hooking mine up to an Atari ST monitor with the RGB output.  That gave me a super sharp display, and playing Virtua Fighter 2 was amazing with this setup.  I think DecAthlete and Last Bronx also played in the same hi-res mode as VF2.  Possibly Sega Rally Championship too, but I can't remember.  There must be others.  All very good games, but let's not forget one of the must fun multiplayer game on the Saturn, Guardian Heroes from Treasure.

  I remember the music CD player app on the Saturn was much more powerful than the one on PlayStation.  You could mess around with sound effects, like add echo, concert hall, muffled, etc.  You could even mute certain frequencies like muting the vocals of a song, just to get the music.  PlayStation could only play the music with no effects at all, except visual effects on screen.

2D games were always better on Saturn.  The PlayStation version of Darkstalkers was horrible, with slowdowns a plenty.  Saturn version was flawless.  Although Capcom didn't do too badly with Darkstalkers 3 on PlayStation (just some missing frames here and there).

3D games, I wouldn't say Sega is the winner here.  PlayStation versions were usually better, but there are exceptions.  Duke Nukem 3D was better on the Saturn.  Powerslave was marginally better than the PSX version.  Both great games too.  Now I'll have to dig up my Saturn from the storage box and hook it up to the TV.


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## EZ-Megaman (Feb 2, 2014)

The Saturn has a good library of strategy games, like the Langrisser and Shining Force series. I hear the Lunar remakes and Grandia are also superior on
the Saturn, but they were only translated for the Playstation. >_<


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## Nah3DS (Feb 2, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> If it's a 2D console game, chances are that the Saturn version is the definitive one - the extra memory and 2D-dedicated hardware gave in the edge over its competitors. This mostly concerns SHMUP's and 2D fighting games which are excellent on the Saturn.


That's true. The only downside are the transparency effects... most games uses that "mesh" technique
I've heard that Hitachi released a version of the console (the HiSaturn) that enables transparency on most games, but I don't if that's true


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## Pleng (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm the kind of guy who only ever has about 4 games for any given system. So for me to have one third (ie two - NiGTHS and Daytona CCE) of the games mentioned in an article about any system is quite an achievement.

Daytona is undoubtedly, in my eye, the king of arcade racers. Despite having enjoyed spending many hours playing CCE with my brother, it really didn't feel like you were playing "Daytona" - one had to wait until the Dreamcast before there was a version of Daytona that both looked _and_ played like the Arcade. Thus I would have personally put Sega Rally in its place in this article (far more failthful to the coin-op).

Other than NiGHTS, Daytona CCE and Sega Rally, the other game in my 'collection' was Virtua Fighter 2.

By the way, don't let anybody in the Nintendo threads see this:!



> The Saturn has plenty of games, 596 of them in fact


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## CathyRina (Feb 2, 2014)

NahuelDS said:


> That's true. The only downside are the transparency effects... most games uses that "mesh" technique
> I've heard that Hitachi released a version of the console (the HiSaturn) that enables transparency on most games, but I don't if that's true


 
you mean something like this:




Yeah that really looks awful


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## lismati (Feb 2, 2014)

Why would you want a Saturn?

Pleease, have you seen a Segata Sanshiro commercial? Only Gin no sara commercials can compare today.


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## w!! (Feb 2, 2014)

This is a great article, but another *big* reason for its failure that is glossed over is the release and failure of the 32X.

Keep in mind that while the 32X came out as an add-on for Genesis,  it was the 32-bit "Next-gen" console release from Sega and at a full new console price at the time of it's release. Purchasing it wasn't just buying another controller, this was full console pricing.... just like the SegaCD. As such, people who bought into it expected good support, good graphics and a longer life than it had. When released, it was buggy from the gate, only had 36 games released and was quickly put to pasture.

This raised serious doubt in the mind of Sega fans as to the ability to produce the next console and that the support there would be if it faltered. Also consider, many just bought the "Next-gen" console add-on at the price of a full console not too long ago and to drop more money on the Saturn was just not feasible.

Sega burned a good bit of it's userbase by releasing the 32X and I think that had a pretty significant impact from where it counts most... customer loyalty and trust. They would have been better off just waiting for the release of the Saturn. And I say all of this as first hand experience, I dodged the 32X bullet and bought one when they went on firesale, I also bought Sega CD used... but when the Saturn was released, I doubted it would last after seeing the 32X debacle. I decided to pass.

As an aside, I think the Sega CD was underrated, I actually enjoy many of the games available on it, and the 32X while endearing, just lacked the ability to compete with the true next-gen consoles in regards to performance, game data storage and support - again, a few good games, but no where near what the next gen consoles could pull off, and therefore casting a shadow of a doubt on what Sega would release next.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

zeello said:


> performance boost in Wipeout? that's odd, I remember playing the game and the frame rate was practically unplasyable . (and I've played demo of the game on ps1 so I know it wasn't meant to be that bad)
> 
> ironically I enjoyed tomb raider a lot more. The Saturn version is the only version of tomb raider I ever played. I never finished it though, I got stock in this one room with a rolling rock and caged door. iirc it was red floor and gold walls.


I worded that part of the article crudely. In my research before writing the article I've read that the quadrilateral-based geometry allowed for superior draw distance and a different approach towards texturing nullified the appearance of texture seams. That being said, the Saturn version of WipEout had poorer frame rate and did not feature all those pretty hardware-accelerated effects the Saturn hardware was unable to render. As such, I've revised that section of the article - well-spotted, sir!


NahuelDS said:


> That's true. The only downside are the transparency effects... most games uses that "mesh" technique
> I've heard that Hitachi released a version of the console (the HiSaturn) that enables transparency on most games, but I don't if that's true


This is also true, the Saturn's VDP's lacked the capacity of properly rendering transparency effects and light sources, it's something I completely forgot to mention and subsequently added to the article now. Where it was superior in sheer geometry, it lacked in hardware acceleration as it was a rather _"aged"_ design. Again, well-spotted, sir. 

As for the HiSaturn's supposed transparency, I've never heard of it and frankly doubt that'd be the case as it'd require coding the transparency effects into the games in the first place.


Mariko said:


> There's one thing I'd like to add here. Saturn modchips feed the ring data to the console, but won't overcome the region lock. You would still need an Action Replay for out-of-region games or backups. I know you mention Action Replay when talking about imports, but it should be clear that the modchip alone won't cut it, and people tend to assume it should.


This is true, the modchip does not counter the region lock in any way, but I've mentioned Saturn Region Patcher in the burning section, so I figured it would be obvious for the reader. If it isn't, I'll simply add a note about that.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Mariko said:


> There's one thing I'd like to add here. Saturn modchips feed the ring data to the console, but won't overcome the region lock. You would still need an Action Replay for out-of-region games or backups. I know you mention Action Replay when talking about imports, but it should be clear that the modchip alone won't cut it, and people tend to assume it should.


 

Easy fix. Patch the iso with the "Sega Saturn Region Patcher SRP 3.0 Gold Edition"* before burning the disk.

*google is your friend


.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

mightymuffy said:


> Not sure your article is 100% accurate Foxi, you missed out the reason WHY the Saturn ended up being such a complex mess with pretty much 2 of everything (was originally meant to be purely a 2D powerhouse early in its development, then PlayStation showed its face - plenty to explain there!). Also, the system was not a developers dream at all, mainly due to its sheer complexity..


I mention that the second CPU was added precisely because the PlayStation Was Coming and Sega Braced Themselves.  The Saturn wasn't necessarily meant to be a 2D powerhouse - I disagree with that statement. Even the 32X _(which was partially based on Saturn hardware by the way!)_ was meant to give players a rudimentary 3D fix - 3D was very much a part of the plan, the problem was that it was a bit primitive with little hardware acceleration. As for the _"developer's dream"_ part, I meant that it simply offered a lot of possibilities, the complexity of the system was definitely a turn-off, which is a recurring theme throughout the text. 


w!! said:


> This is a great article, but another *big* reason for its failure that is glossed over is the release and failure of the 32X.
> 
> Keep in mind that while the 32X came out as an add-on for Genesis, it was the 32-bit "Next-gen" console release from Sega and at a full new console price at the time of it's release. Purchasing it wasn't just buying another controller, this was full console pricing.... just like the SegaCD. As such, people who bought into it expected good support, good graphics and a longer life than it had. When released, it was buggy from the gate, only had 36 games released and was quickly put to pasture.
> 
> ...


When releasing the 32X, Sega used a bizzare strategy. People sometimes wrongly assume that the Saturn is merely a successor to the 32X when that's hardly the case - the Saturn and the 32X were initially planned to work hand-in-hand. Again, the 32X was released first for all those people who wanted an entry-level 3D machine while the Saturn followed as the high-end 3D machine. In other words, Sega wanted to support both machines at the same time. Of course this didn't work and the 32X had to be canned. By doing so, Sega indeed upset its customers, I suppose I should add that to the respective paragraph. Well-spotted, sir! 


Pleng said:


> By the way, don't let anybody in the Nintendo threads see this:!


Considering the fact that the Nintendo equivalent had 200 less at the time, yeah, better not show it to them! _;O;_


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## BLsquared (Feb 2, 2014)

Wow, nice job, Foxi. The only thing I knew about the Saturn was that it played Mega Man 8. Most of my friends didn't even realize there was a Saturn, just a Genesis and a Game Gear. Sega was really good at hardware, just not so awesome with non-Sonic software.


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## CathyRina (Feb 2, 2014)

Commodore said:


> Sega was really good at hardware, just not so awesome with non-Sonic software.


 
yeah, no.
Phantasy Star is also a great Franchise from Sega.
It's just not as popular as Sonic.


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## Pleng (Feb 2, 2014)

w!! said:


> This is a great article, but another *big* reason for its failure that is glossed over is the release and failure of the 32X.


 
The 32X I believe was originally conceived as a standalone SVP-chip, so you wouldn't have to have it included in the price of other 3D games as Virtua Racing was pretty pricey. Somehow the idea got out of control and mushroomed (pun absolutely intended) into the 32X. I recall that sales of 32X were actually quite encouraging, if not earth-shattering, to begin with... the death knell being the extremely high number of DOA units.

I personally think the biggest cause of failure was knee-jerk reaction to the Playstation, bringing the launch forward in Japan by, like 4 months. This lead to release software being rushed; the original version of Daytona had massive clipping issues, and there were flickering faces galore in Virtua Fighters - it simply lead people to believe that the Saturn wasn't up to the task. They only really needed to release a month early to have had the effect they wanted - the hardcore "gotta have a next gen now" crowd would still have bought the Saturn, not being able to hold off an extra month for the Playstation, and the development teams would have had an extra 3 months to get the release titles up to standard.

I also recall the fuss made over the Saturn not having a standard RF output. I think the Playstation did but, never having owned one, I'm not sure. I never understood all the fuss, to be honest. At the time of its release, even my little bedroom telly had a SCART input - but there were clearly a number of people who wanted to play the Saturn on an RF-only equipped telly, and didn't like the fact they had to spend another 15 quid on an adepter to do so



Commodore said:


> Wow, nice job, Foxi. The only thing I knew about the Saturn was that it played Mega Man 8. Most of my friends didn't even realize there was a Saturn, just a Genesis and a Game Gear. Sega was really good at hardware, just not so awesome with non-Sonic software.


 
Um... no Sega's (home) hardware division was just awful; hence the Mega Seedy, 32X, and cumbersome Saturn fiascos. Their software was awesome.

Ironic, really... Sega ruled the arcades when it came to 3D gaming. Nobody was even close. I guess they must have been totally stung by the manufactures of their arcade hardware; because they seemed convinced at the time of designing the Saturn that the home market was not ready for a full 3D-capable system.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

Dust2dust said:


> The Saturn was a great console, no doubts. I remember hooking mine up to an Atari ST monitor with the RGB output. That gave me a super sharp display, and playing Virtua Fighter 2 was amazing with this setup. I think DecAthlete and Last Bronx also played in the same hi-res mode as VF2. Possibly Sega Rally Championship too, but I can't remember. There must be others. All very good games, but let's not forget one of the must fun multiplayer game on the Saturn, Guardian Heroes from Treasure.
> 
> I remember the music CD player app on the Saturn was much more powerful than the one on PlayStation. You could mess around with sound effects, like add echo, concert hall, muffled, etc. You could even mute certain frequencies like muting the vocals of a song, just to get the music. PlayStation could only play the music with no effects at all, except visual effects on screen.
> 
> ...


With 3D multiplatforms the problem was that the Saturn's hardware was complex and required re-coding things from scratch. Coders usually went the easy way instead and utilized only one of the two processors and did not attempt to "software-fake" effects that on the PlayStation could be achieved with hardware acceleration. Saturn exclusives however show what the system was actually capable of and I'm sure that its 3D game selection would've been more roboust had it "lived" longer. The 2D games, exclusives and arcade ports are indeed where the Saturn shines.

The CD player is indeed more roboust than the PlayStation's, _"CD Quality Sound"_ was considered to be one of its selling points - it's even mentioned in the infomercial... with the Saturn laying scrumptiously in a salad bowl. With salad.


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## Mariko (Feb 2, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Easy fix. Patch the iso with the "Sega Saturn Region Patcher SRP 3.0 Gold Edition"* before burning the disk.


 
Even if you're planning on pirating Saturn games, you're better off buying an Action Replay. This way you're covered on both backup, and import fronts. Manual patching just adds an extra step. Anyway, I just wanted to emphasize, that Saturn modchips fake the disc authenticity check, nothing more. PlayStation and PlayStation 2 modchips got people assuming that region-free functionality was a given.


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## BLsquared (Feb 2, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> yeah, no.
> Phantasy Star is also a great Franchise from Sega.
> It's just not as popular as Sonic.


 
Sorry, guess that just shows how little I myself know about them.


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## Jayro (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm quite surprised this was never mentioned in the OP, but what is/was the homebrew scene like for the Saturn? Could we burn emulators and roms to a CD and play them via some sort of boot disc? I could do exactly that with my PS2 and SwapMagic, played SNES games without sound. I hear the Dreamcast was a beasly homebrew machine, running Windows CE at it's core. Is this true?


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## Sizednochi (Feb 2, 2014)

4 pages in and still no mention to Panzer Dragoon Saga? That was hands down the best game on the Saturn. In fact it's my dream game and I want to own it one day, even if it's expensive as heck.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

JayRo said:


> I'm quite surprised this was never mentioned in the OP, but what is/was the homebrew scene like for the Saturn? Could we burn emulators and roms to a CD and play them via some sort of boot disc? I could do exactly that with my PS2 and SwapMagic, played SNES games without sound. I hear the Dreamcast was a beasly homebrew machine, running Windows CE at it's core. Is this true?


The Saturn's homebrew scene _"exists"_, but it's rudimentary. There's a couple of emulators and games for it out there, but not a whole lot due to the complex architecture. You can easily burn homebrew to discs and boot them as you'd boot any CD-R. I'll try to add a section about it later after I look into what's available. 

The Dreamcast was _compatible_ with Windows CE, but it was not embedded and not all games utilized it. It was an odd setup where select games contained a modular Windows CE release, each Windows CE-Powered game would only have the modules it required to function which minimized the strain on the system. This was optional though, you could develop games specifically for the Dreamcast hardware without using the CE core. In other words, you had two devkits to work with - the Windows CE-based one and the native Dreamcast one.

Due to the fact that the Katana SDK was leaked into the depths of the Internet, Dreamcast homebrew is far more numerous, roboust and popular, to the point that the system _still_ gets commercial unlicensed releases to this day.



Sizednochi said:


> 4 pages in and still no mention to Panzer Dragoon Saga? That was hands down the best game on the Saturn. In fact it's my dream game and I want to own it one day, even if it's expensive as heck.


True, Panzer Dragoon Saga was practically Sega's answer to Final Fantasy VII and it's met with praise all-around each time it's mentioned. Unfortunately, this is more of an overview article than a review one - mentioning each and every notable game on the system isn't really feasible.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2014)

Wow, this thread got me thinking about another thing I've always wanted for the Saturn .... an s-video cable. This has always been a difficult thing to find - the official Sega cable AFAIK was never sold outside Japan, and while there are 3rd party cables that work just fine, they're scarce and usually sell for about 5x-10x what they should. Unlike the Gamecube component cable (for example), there's nothing special about an S-video cable for Saturn - there just weren't very many made.


Looks like someone in China decided to respond to the demand ... just ordered one of these for $10 ($6 and $4 shipping, ugh.)

http://www.amazon.com/Retro-Bit-Sega-Saturn-S-Video-Cable/dp/B00FEO58G8/


Same thing's available on ebay. Assuming it works, bargain of the century. If it turns out to be junk, one less trip to McDonald's. I think it's worth taking a chance.


Edit: in other words, darn you Foxi, you just cost me 10 bucks! LOL


.


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## Jayro (Feb 2, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The Saturn's homebrew scene _"exists"_, but it's rudimentary. There's a couple of emulators and games for it out there, but not a whole lot due to the complex architecture. You can easily burn homebrew to discs and boot them as you'd boot any CD-R.
> 
> The Dreamcast was _compatible_ with Windows CE, but not all games utilized it - only select games did. It was an odd setup where select games contained a modular Windows CE release, each Windows CE-Powered game would only have the modules it required to function which minimized the strain on the system. This setup was optional though, you could develop games specifically for the Dreamcast hardware without using the CE core.
> 
> Due to the fact that the Katana SDK was leaked into the depths of the Internet, Dreamcast homebrew is far more numerous, roboust and popular, to the point that the system _still_ gets commercial unlicensed releases to this day.


Thanks, this is some juicy info. I have always liked optional and modular systems, it certainly lends flexibility to developers. I'm a hardware junkie, and can't program to save my life. XD


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 2, 2014)

Foxi4

I had forgotten and actually been searching for a fantastic game my parents rented for my Saturn when I was a kid. For years I have been searching for it, but I had forgotten the name.

Thank you for clearing the mystery for me. That game is called Burning Rangers. Finally.

And it is a fantastic game. One the best I ever played actually.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm glad that the thread actually spur some interest in the system - you don't get to hear a lot about it anymore these days, which is a shame considering what it has to offer and I'm happy to see that people enjoyed it.

Upon popular demand, I've included a short section about homebrew with two videos showing what the system can do in this regard. After some research, it turns out that the homebrew scene, although very small, is actually pretty active, or at least was. I'll have to dive into it in my spare time, some of the stuff released is quite interesting. 

*EDIT:* Seeing that I can't possibly pack more videos into the OP, I'm going to throw one here:



It's the Game Basic kit I've mentioned in the new Homebrew section and it looks like a lot of fun.


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## calmwaters (Feb 2, 2014)

Fascinating. I mean, it's everything a person would want to know about the Saturn. And I'd be even more thrilled if you wrote an article describing all the games for the system.  Anyway, I can't wait for future exposѐs like these. And congrats on becoming a reporter.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> Fascinating. I mean, it's everything a person would want to know about the Saturn. And I'd be even more thrilled if you wrote an article describing all the games for the system.  Anyway, I can't wait for future exposѐs like these. And congrats on becoming a reporter.


If all goes well, this sort of thing is going to be a monthly feature posted whenever gaming news slow down to keep things spicy.  As far as a Saturn Essentials list, you can find one here - even though it's aged, it features plenty of notable Saturn titles. Also thanks, I'll keep on doing my best to entertain the community.


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## slingblade1170 (Feb 2, 2014)

I have a Sega Saturn but I don't have many games for it at the moment.


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## CathyRina (Feb 3, 2014)

WhiteMaze said:


> That game is called Burning Rangers. Finally.


That's funny. In Phantasy Star Online 2 there is a Emergency Quest where the theme song of Burning Rangers runs in the background. It's a Catchy song! I've set it up in my ingame room to play the whole time.
And yeah the quest has something to do with fire. 


Generally you discover so much Sega stuff in Phantasy star Online 2, it's gorgeous!
Just look at this list full of music they imported to this game: http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/room_03.php#nav


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## Magnus87 (Feb 3, 2014)

If sega Saturn would have backward compatibility with Megadrive/Genesis and/or Master System, would have been more successful


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2014)

Magnus87 said:


> If sega Saturn would have backward compatibility with Megadrive/Genesis and/or Master System, would have been more successful


That's debatable, backwards compatibility doesn't make or break a system, especially when everybody and their dog already own the previous one.


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## WhiteMaze (Feb 3, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That's debatable, backwards compatibility doesn't make or break a system, especially when everybody and their dog already own the previous one.


 
I'll have to agree with Magnus87 though.

I mean, it probably wouldn't have SAVED the Saturn anyways, but it would have helped out immensely with its sales.

Wouldn't be the first time that backward compatibility is the decisive feature, to make me buy a gaming system. Regardless of having the original system or not.


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## VashTS (Feb 3, 2014)

I just got one recently. I remember when it came out, my dad's friends son had it and he was so adamant that it was better than our Playstation because it has multiple processors. 

I always viewed the Saturn like the Jaguar. It was ahead of it's time and far too expensive for the commoner.


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## codezer0 (Feb 3, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Why wouldn't you want a Sega Saturn


Well, at the time, for me it was mostly a problem with the fact that I was still a young brat and perma-broke.

Looking back now? I know that if I go down the path and manage to buy a Saturn, I _know_ I am going to want at least a 5-in-1 cart for it, and a modchip with multi-region BIOS installed, either pre-mod or installed myself. Why? most of the games I would want the system for weren't always released here in the states, even though most would be. Notable imports would be the Saturn versions of stuff like X-Men vs. SF and MSH vs SF. Heck, if I could I would even try to get that MPEG card and see if it would work on a US console. It's only too bad that its only real networking option was the ridiculously priced NetLink modem, which was limited to 28.8Kbps... if it at least _had_ a LAN adapter like the dreamcast available, it might have even been possible for some kind of net-booting option of games, too. As it is now, I seriously doubt the dial-up modem available to the system would have the requisite bandwidth.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 3, 2014)

Magnus87 said:


> If sega Saturn would have backward compatibility with Megadrive/Genesis and/or Master System, would have been more successful


 


Maybe. But backward compatibility is a fairly recent thing in the video game market (and not necessarily a 100% good thing). Nothing had backward compatibility back then, and nobody expected it. I guess you could say the MD/Genesis had backward compatibility with the Master System, but that was only if you bought the separate peripheral pass-through thingie. Nintendo wasn't doing backward compatibility at all, and Sony wasn't quite yet even in the picture yet. I'm not saying you're wrong, because if the Saturn had backward compatibility with the MD/Genesis and/or SMS, it would have been a major HOLY SHIT! moment for all of us back then. The idea didn't really catch on as "normal and to be expected" until the 2nd gen of optical media consoles came out.


.


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## Mariko (Feb 3, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> the system was very exotic, the complex architecture posed a difficulty for developers and often required engines to be re-coded from the ground up to squeeze the most out of the peculiar hardware.


 
It's funny how developers are able to overcome any difficulties now, and back then they would just choose the easy way of sticking with one processor, or would abandon the platform altogether. Both PlayStation 2 and 3 were supposedly difficult to code for, but the platforms were so immensely popular, developers would just put in the extra hours and figure things out. Naughty Dog didn't even bother with Sony's tools for the PS3 and built their own. From scratch. And no one is to say Uncharted didn't turn out good.

People tend to blame Saturn's architecture a lot, but it was really the architecture combined with the reality of the '90s. It's not that Saturn couldn't produce PlayStation quality games, it's the developers who couldn't be bothered, especially later on, when the profit wouldn't match the amount of work required. Looking back at the early PlayStation games, they didn't outclass Saturn titles. People always focus on Gran Turismo, Tekken 3, Metal Gear and other games that came much later, and by that time, there was no major developer interested in producing quality 3D on the Saturn.


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## codezer0 (Feb 3, 2014)

Mariko said:


> It's funny how developers are able to overcome any difficulties now, and back then they would just choose the easy way of sticking with one processor, or would abandon the platform altogether. Both PlayStation 2 and 3 were supposedly difficult to code for, but the platforms were so immensely popular, developers would just put in the extra hours and figure things out. Naughty Dog didn't even bother with Sony's tools for the PS3 and built their own. From scratch. And no one is to say Uncharted didn't turn out good.
> 
> People tend to blame Saturn's architecture a lot, but it was really the architecture combined with the reality of the '90s. It's not that Saturn couldn't produce PlayStation quality games, it's the developers who couldn't be bothered, especially later on, when the profit wouldn't match the amount of work required. Looking back at the early PlayStation games, they didn't outclass Saturn titles. People always focus on Gran Turismo, Tekken 3, Metal Gear and other games that came much later, and by that time, there was no major developer interested in producing quality 3D on the Saturn.


In the case of Naughty dog, they are a *second* party dev... meaning they were on Sony's bankroll anyway, and had far stronger access to Sony's resources for support than say... Capcom or VALVe.

It is well known that Sony SDK's - especially at launch - are terrible. It is only because Sony managed to move enough systems that they were otherwise forced to adapt when there were clearly better alternatives.


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## Danny600kill (Feb 3, 2014)

OMG the Saturn <3

This is my all time favourite console, I've been trying to grab a decent priced one for some time now seeing as my original disappeared :/ I think this console is the first console I fully enjoyed as a child and is what started my passion for gaming, and maybe why sonic is my favourite gaming franchise.


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## Mariko (Feb 3, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> In the case of Naughty dog, they are a *second* party dev... meaning they were on Sony's bankroll anyway, and had far stronger access to Sony's resources for support than say... Capcom or VALVe.


 
How exactly is their relationship with Sony relevant to the development of their own tools? Naughty Dog have a history of handling the development on their own, prime example being Andy Gavin's custom programming languages and their console implementations. Besides, whether you're a first, second or third party developer, Sony doesn't want your game to suck if it's going to be published on their console. What you're saying sounds like there's a special support service for second party developers, which supplies them with the latest tricks, all ready to go.

What I meant to point out was that early PlayStation games didn't amaze. Saturn always gets labelled as the superior 2D console, and its 3D is always panned, but like I said, it wasn't all home runs for PlayStation, either. People laugh at Jaguar's Cybermorph, but guess what? That's what you get when you're releasing new technology, and there are no experienced developers around, because it's the first time for everyone, and you have to learn as you go. PlayStation got Total Eclipse Turbo, which admittedly looked better, but was released much later and on a superior hardware, but who cares about all that, when you can compare Saturn's infancy with PlayStation's best and greatest.

I don't want this to become a rant about which console is better, etc. It's not about specs. It's about Sega not being able to secure their position on the market, yet again. Anyway, there are plenty of interesting titles for the Saturn, and a good game is still a good game, no matter how many polygons it's trying to push.



Foxi4 said:


> Due to the fact that the Katana SDK was leaked into the depths of the Internet, Dreamcast homebrew is far more numerous, roboust and popular, to the point that the system _still_ gets commercial unlicensed releases to this day.


 
Homebrew games for the Dreamcast are using KallistiOS, initially developed by Dan Potter. This SDK has no relation to either Katana or Windows CE. It's entirely independent and developed by Dan from scratch. It's also free to use, even for commercial purposes. NG.Dev Team's releases are still using Kallisti v1.2, I think. The SDK is still being developed, and got a 2.0 update in 2013. So, whether it's a Senile Team game, or a HuCast game, or anything else that deserves a disc pressing, it's KallistiOS.


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## BORTZ (Feb 3, 2014)

I dont think i have ever seen a Sega Saturn in real life, and if I have, its been mistaken for a Genesis or Mega Drive or whatever. The most confusing part to me was all the addons and confusing time line of release dates. I guess for the longest time in the back of my mind, i knew SS existed, but I never really though about what generation they belonged to, or who for that matter, competed with. All I ever heard about were PS1s and N64s. 

That said, there are a couple of games I have always wanted to play for the Saturn...
Shining Force 3 (all 3 episodes...), and Dragon Force.  

Shining Force 3 got the first part localized... but episodes 2 and 3 are japanese only. Translations exist, but they are a super pain in the anus to get working. 
/sighs
It looks like so much fun to play...


And Dragon Force... was a sprite based fantasy war game... with over 100 sprites on the battlefield at once...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kmEyag0D5jI#t=297


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2014)

Mariko said:


> It's funny how developers are able to overcome any difficulties now, and back then they would just choose the easy way of sticking with one processor, or would abandon the platform altogether. _(...)_ People tend to blame Saturn's architecture a lot, but it was really the architecture combined with the reality of the '90s.


I can't really agree with that statement, having in mind the fact that _"supplying the developer with a devkit for your system"_ was still sort-of a new and revolutionary idea at that time. During the NES/SMS/SNES/MD days, it wasn't uncommon for companies to build their own devkits out of commercially-available consoles and spare parts _(see: Factor 5's Pegasus SNES devkits, Electronic Arts' Sega Probe Genesis devkit)_, so it's definitely not a matter of the 90'ties. I think there simply comes a point when a system is so complex that people gradually stop caring, and the Saturn was really close to getting to that point. Thankfuly it didn't, Sega released development tools and all was well in game library land - still a shame that it didn't sell nearly as well as it could've.

It's true that the early PS1 games aren't trumping Saturn ones and I firmly believe that if the Saturn was on the market longer, it too would enjoy more advanced 3D development. Programmers had to learn how to use the new dimension in space and Saturn didn't get to live long enough to fully enjoy the fruits of said dimension. That being said, there's still plenty of 3D games on it worth mentioning, and the fact that they're so grossly different than those late PlayStation ones we all know might actually be one of their vital qualities.




Mariko said:


> Homebrew games for the Dreamcast are using KallistiOS, initially developed by Dan Potter. This SDK has no relation to either Katana or Windows CE. It's entirely independent and developed by Dan from scratch. It's also free to use, even for commercial purposes. NG.Dev Team's releases are still using Kallisti v1.2, I think. The SDK is still being developed, and got a 2.0 update in 2013. So, whether it's a Senile Team game, or a HuCast game, or anything else that deserves a disc pressing, it's KallistiOS.


That's an interesting tidbit, thanks for that! I know for a fact that the leaking of Katana's software led to a major boom on the DC scene, including the creation of UTOPIA, but contemporary methods of homebrew development on the system are not something I'm familiar with - I'll look into then when it's then Dreamcast's turn to sit proudly on the frontpage in a couple of months.


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## Mariko (Feb 3, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I can't really agree with that statement, having in mind the fact that _"supplying the developer with a devkit for your system"_ was still sort-of a new and revolutionary idea at that time. During the NES/SMS/SNES/MD days, it wasn't uncommon for companies to build their own devkits out of commercially-available consoles and spare parts



Let's not confuse the lack of motivation with the lack of knowledge. I'm sure there were enough of crafty developers out there, but in the end, it all came down to work versus profit. Had Saturn's complexity been the biggest issue, it wouldn't have lasted for as long as it did. After all, it was still being produced well into the year 2000 (in Japan, of course). Then again, it depends on how you look at it. Saturn development hurdles were a definite turn-off for many companies, which isn't to say the console was too difficult or complex to handle. All I meant was that given the reality of the market, people would rather invest their time into something that would result in profit.

Getting used to new technology today isn't as hard as it was back then, because really, how now is the new stuff? PlayStation 4 is a PC, and so is everything else. That's what's new. Today you have 10-year-olds soldering up repro cartridges, so yea, I guess a console like Saturn could have been too complex for some, but not for the likes of the aforementioned Andy Gavin, who is an M.I.T. genius.



Foxi4 said:


> That's an interesting tidbit, thanks for that! I know for a fact that the leaking of Katana's software led to a major boom on the DC scene, including the creation of UTOPIA, but contemporary methods of homebrew development on the system are not something I'm familiar with - I'll look into then when it's then Dreamcast's turn to sit proudly on the frontpage in a couple of months.



You're welcome, and on the homebrew note, yes, the Utopia boot disc was compiled using official libraries, but all it really did was give the homebrewers a way of booting their stuff, and the vast majority of early productions was Windows CE based. KallistiOS became widespread around 2001, and the first public leak of the Katana SDK occured sometime in 2004. To make the long story short, Utopia's boot disc started the mainstream homebrew boom, but the Katana SDK itself didn't play a major role in the further development of the scene.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2014)

Mariko said:


> _*Snip!*_


This is very informative, thank you! I'll be sure to dive deep into the homebrew tidbits regarding the Dreamcast before writing anything about it, I know there's a whole lot for me to read. 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with calling the PS4 and the XBox One a _"PC"_ without explaining what a PC actually is, mostly because it evokes negative connotations to those who don't know that. At the end of the day, a PC is merely a personal computer - everything from a pocket calculator to a desktop computer, consoles included, does computing for the user and as such is both personal and a computer.

A Mac is a PC _(now more then ever since they're also Intel-based these days)_, but we got used to this standard of calling everything that's _"IBM-Compatible and x86-based"_ a PC, and that's sometimes unfair and misleading. The fact that they're both x86_64 doesn't really make them any less consoles or any more _"PC's"_, much like the XBox wasn't a _"PC"_ despite literally running on a Pentium derrivative and an NVidia GeForce derrivative.

The switch to x86_64 was made to make porting low-level code easier, not necessarily to _"become PC's"_ - both the XBox One and the PS4 are still consoles. Now, Steam Machines, we could have a whole debate about those.


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## Magnus87 (Feb 3, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That's debatable, backwards compatibility doesn't make or break a system, especially when everybody and their dog already own the previous one.


 
Yes but if it have backwards compatibility. for example you can play "more game" on the launch day. Check out gameboy family

GBC? Well, we have all GB games (815) and new games
GBA? Well, we have all GB/C games (815+469) and new games


Backwards compatibility is not key to success for the console but Its a "Plus/Bonus/Extra". The cherry on the top 

If Saturn  had it.  We could play genesis/megadrive games with S-Video and stereo without a mod


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2014)

Magnus87 said:


> Yes but if it have backwards compatibility. for example you can play "more game" on the launch day. Check out gameboy family
> 
> GBC? Well, we have all GB games (815) and new games
> GBA? Well, we have all GB/C games (815+469) and new games
> ...


That's true, but it's still just a cherry on the cake. Imagine how expensive it would be if it had Mega Drive/Genesis hardware inside of it - it already sold for $399 and back then that was a huge pricetag. I don't think it would manage to build an install base easily if it cost that much.

In the case of the GB and the GBC, both systems were based on the same hardware with small differences and the same CPU at different clock speeds. The GBA used GBC's processor as a sound co-processor, so there was also a point in including it beyond backwards compatibility. The Saturn was a departure from Mega Drive's/Genesis' architecture, so the issue was more complex and as such backwards compatibility would be more pricy to implement _(see: PlayStation 3 and its $499/$599 pricetag)_.

That, and portables and home consoles are like apples and oranges.


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## codezer0 (Feb 4, 2014)

Mariko said:


> How exactly is their relationship with Sony relevant to the development of their own tools? Naughty Dog have a history of handling the development on their own, prime example being Andy Gavin's custom programming languages and their console implementations. Besides, whether you're a first, second or third party developer, Sony doesn't want your game to suck if it's going to be published on their console. What you're saying sounds like there's a special support service for second party developers, which supplies them with the latest tricks, all ready to go.
> 
> What I meant to point out was that early PlayStation games didn't amaze. Saturn always gets labelled as the superior 2D console, and its 3D is always panned, but like I said, it wasn't all home runs for PlayStation, either. People laugh at Jaguar's Cybermorph, but guess what? That's what you get when you're releasing new technology, and there are no experienced developers around, because it's the first time for everyone, and you have to learn as you go. PlayStation got Total Eclipse Turbo, which admittedly looked better, but was released much later and on a superior hardware, but who cares about all that, when you can compare Saturn's infancy with PlayStation's best and greatest.
> 
> I don't want this to become a rant about which console is better, etc. It's not about specs. It's about Sega not being able to secure their position on the market, yet again. Anyway, there are plenty of interesting titles for the Saturn, and a good game is still a good game, no matter how many polygons it's trying to push.


That's because for the longest time, the PlayStation was a horrible machine for handling 2D, in large part because of its otherwise limited resources. The original PlayStation did not even have a hardware z-buffer... and it took Naughty Dog a lot of time and resources that most pure third parties would not have, or certainly money to fund to research a way to finally get a working and efficient z-buffer in _soft_ware mode on the PS1's pokey specs. As for 2D, it took Capcom until _Street Fighter Alpha 3_ before they had 2D down to the point that it was at least at the same level of performance as a _stock_ Saturn - never mind a Saturn enhanced with one of the RAM expansion carts. For all intents and purposes, a Saturn with a RAM expansion cart installed was effectively arcade perfect, in both load times and frame-perfect animation, because at least the Saturn had a way of overcoming said limits.

In the Game Dev side of the Industry, it was well known that the PlayStation SDK - especially for the first couple of years - was awful. Sure, it _claimed_ to support C and C++ on paper... but if you actually wanted anything to run *fast*, it had to be done in assembly. With the PS2, it was also well known that the PS2 SDK had no concept of anti-aliasing, because neither the hardware nor the shipping SDK supported it in any way, shape or form. It took a lot of resources to even get that to work. And before you point it out, I am well aware of the HD support for Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist trophy... both are titles that are:

running on the same engine practically
developed by Polyphony, a second-party dev that got *a lot* of funding (read: $$$$$$$$) from Sony
Got to take their sweet time to figure out how to make that possible. Keep in mind both of those games came out late in the PS2's actively supported life.
Calling a spade a spade, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Retro studios got the same kind of preferential treatment when it came time to releasing Metroid Prime on Nintendo's Gamecube, or Bungie for Microsoft's Xbox. They can claim that they made their own tools all they want, but I would not be surprised in the least if there weren't more than a handful of Sony engineers and devs that come in to assist Naughty Dog's staff on a regular, _vested interest_.


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## CathyRina (Feb 4, 2014)

Magnus87 said:


> Backwards compatibility is not key to success for the console but Its a "Plus/Bonus/Extra".


 
I remember when I did a Power Point presentation about Microsoft I tumbled over a tiny old article that criticized MS-DOS backwards compatibility because it made hardware development slower. A system without Backwards compatibility would develop faster but would have to start from 0 every time, available program wise. As we all know Microsoft "won" the market with their backwards compatibility and PC OS nowadays all have some sort of backwards compatibility.

Nowadays you can clearly see what the critique meant if you look at Nintendo. We live in year 2014 and "HD" is a selling point for them.
Their Console basically is a Wii U + the Hardware from Wii to run Wii games. As far as I heard instead of backwards compatibility Sony is doing emulation for Vita with PSP titles, like Nintendo does with Virtual Console Games.
However Emulation isn't a thing you can program in one day (Especially in 1994). It requires a big amount of time. The Playstation 2 Emulator for example still hasn't the full Game Library compatible.
So Sega would have, like Foxi said, put the new "up-to-date" hardware into the console plus the old one. The Saturn would have cost sh*t tons of money and would be probably even less successful than it is now because no one could have afford it.
Selling "up to date" hardware without backwards compatibility was the next logical step.

In my opinion Consoles don't need Backward compatibility.
I mean It's cool that I can play GC games on Wii or DS games on 3DS but... I already own a GC and DS.
Even if I hadn't I could easily go and get a used console for 50€ and could do with it what ever I want.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> _*Snip!*_


The praise Saturn gets is well-deserved, but we can't forget about all the things the PS1 and the N64 did. The Saturn certainly had the memory and the hardware to push loads of sprites, backgrounds and elaborate geometry, but without hardware accelerated lighting and transparencies, the final effects weren't always looking as great as they did on the competition's machines. It was certainly a very powerful machine, but in certain respects it was behind the times technologically, which is a shame - I can only imagine how this rich geometry would look like if it was adorned with rich lighting, proper transparency and actual triangles with UV coordinates for each of the vertices.

Perhaps the PlayStation's SDK was not that great and the specs were definitely the poorest out of the three, but keep in mind that the N64's and the Saturn's hardware was convoluted _(one look at the memory layout shows you that the Saturn's memory was heavily sectioned)_ and the SDK's were poor as well, in case of the Saturn even insufficient upon release. Some of the most breath-taking N64 games are also made using completely re-written microcode and custom SDK's - Rogue Squadron comes to mind. There's a reason why developers flocked to the PlayStation - it was the cheapest for the consumer and arguably the easiest to work with for the coders. 

That being said, the Saturn truly was a 2D beast precisely because its VDP's could work in a 2D-oriented way. Sega clearly poured all of the knowledge they've gained after being years in the arcade business into the machine, games like Capcom's fighters were indeed definitive on it.


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## SS4 (Feb 4, 2014)

Great post Foxi, i love my Saturn!


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## SpaceJump (Feb 4, 2014)

Great article Foxi 

I still have my Saturn with some games, one of them being Panzer Dragoon Saga in very good condition


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## Kouen Hasuki (Feb 4, 2014)

Had one of these machines, good console that.

With luck these articles will bring more than just convo's about 3DS on the site 

Also Exhumed / Powerslave on saturn = one of my Fav Saturn titles ever


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## Mariko (Feb 4, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> In the Game Dev side of the Industry, it was well known that the PlayStation SDK - especially for the first couple of years - was awful. Sure, it _claimed_ to support C and C++ on paper... but if you actually wanted anything to run *fast*, it had to be done in assembly.



Isn't that what I said? SDKs sucked, and that's all there is to it. Also, coding in Assembly wasn't that big a deal, especially back then, and besides, developing a game doesn't equal just typing it up in machine code, line by line. Thinking outside of the box pretty much required the use of Assembly, and you say it like it's a bad thing.



> With the PS2, it was also well known that the PS2 SDK had no concept of anti-aliasing, because neither the hardware nor the shipping SDK supported it in any way, shape or form. It took a lot of resources to even get that to work. And before you point it out, I am well aware of the HD support for Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist trophy.



I wasn't going to point that out simply because it's a non-issue. In fact, Naughty Dog themselves said the whole AA debacle was blown out of proportion, and they were right. Bringing Gran Turismo up isn't a good idea, anyways, because its development process is so far detached from anything else, it can't really serve as a valid example.



> Calling a spade a spade, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Retro studios got the same kind of preferential treatment when it came time to releasing Metroid Prime on Nintendo's Gamecube, or Bungie for Microsoft's Xbox.



The only thing I see here are your own assumptions, and that doesn't really bring anything to the table. Also, I've never considered Halo to be that big a deal. At least the first game had some shaders to show off, but the rest? I wasn't impressed. I did play them, but Halo 3 was a major disappointment. In all fairness, even you'd have to admit, that the best thing Microsoft's money bought Bungie was the insane amount of hype. We've seen better games. Criterion's Black comes to mind, which blew my mind on the PlayStation 2 (depth-of-field effects, and other crazy shit), and hey, they were a third party dev.


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## Diego Liberal (Feb 4, 2014)

zeello said:


> performance boost in Wipeout? that's odd, I remember playing the game and the frame rate was practically unplasyable . (and I've played demo of the game on ps1 so I know it wasn't meant to be that bad)
> 
> ironically I enjoyed tomb raider a lot more. The Saturn version is the only version of tomb raider I ever played. I never finished it though, I got stock in this one room with a rolling rock and caged door. iirc it was red floor and gold walls.


 
You were on the latest levels   You described a room at Atlantis levels (just 3 levels for atlantis before finishing game)


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## Hanafuda (Feb 7, 2014)

Just a followup on an earlier post  ... I received the Retro-Bit s-video cable for SS and have to give it a big thumbs-up. Very well made cable for the $10 is cost me, and the improvement in picture quality is just what you'd expect jumping from composite to s-video. If you're running a Saturn on a CRT TV with the original composite cable, I'd highly recommend grabbing this while you can. It's a major improvement for little $.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Just a followup on an earlier post ... I received the Retro-Bit s-video cable for SS and have to give it a big thumbs-up. Very well made cable for the $10 is cost me, and the improvement in picture quality is just what you'd expect jumping from composite to s-video. If you're running a Saturn on a CRT TV with the original composite cable, I'd highly recommend grabbing this while you can. It's a major improvement for little $.


I'll have to consider this as my composite cables are a little bit flimsy. I don't have any complaints over the picture quality, but I sure wouldn't mind making it better if there's an option to do just that without spending a whole lot.


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## codezer0 (Jun 20, 2014)

Well, the ideal would be being able to run an RGBs cable, and maybe to a late-model CRT HDTV.

It's sad... my job has one of these late-model, widescreen CRT HDTV's, that happens to be modern enough to even have an HDMI input. I've even went on record to say that I'd want one if they ever thought about replacing it, because it was a decent size and everything.


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