# Your favorite 3D Legend of Zelda game?



## JPH (Jan 3, 2008)

How about a serious topic today? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





What's your favorite 3D Legend of Zelda game?

Having played all of them except Majora's Mask, I'm going to say Twilight Princess.


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## xcalibur (Jan 3, 2008)

Doesn't Phantom Hourglass count?

I haven't played any except OoT and WW, obvious winner there.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 3, 2008)

Wind Waker. I don't consider it the best, but I do consider it my favorite. I loved everything about that game. Well, except for the fact that it was a bit too easy, just a bit. And it could have used a few more dungeons, but they were cut so that Nintendo could get it out faster. Other than that though, loved every minute of it.


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## Jax (Jan 3, 2008)

OOT.
No contest here...


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## GameDragon (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to agree with Wind Waker. Its style was very impressive.


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## lagman (Jan 3, 2008)

Wind Waker, the perfect Zelda game, awesome music, characters, locations, side quests, what most people see as it's downside: the sea traveling, was always enjoyable for me.


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## VBKirby (Jan 3, 2008)

Majora's Mask for sure. I've praised this game on several forums, and now I'll do it again.

Majora's mask is a very unique experience. It's very dark and quite depressing. It ranges from Scary, creepy, disturbing, depressing, calming, to down right sad. If you've heard of the genre "dementia" for really bizzare anime and shows, that's what Majora's Mask falls under. It was a whole new experience to me. I'd never played a depressing game or a really creepy game before, and I've never seen or heard of anything quite like Majora's Mask. The wide range of emotions felt throughout the game was neat, and overall, the game completely fascinated me. I've never been so sucked into a game before, and I probably never will be again. It's the most intriguing, and fascinating game ever, and I love every bit of it.

Ocarina of Time is considered the best to many people, but it just doesn't have the same atmosphere as Majora's Mask that makes it so great.


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## 754boy (Jan 3, 2008)

Twilight princess is my favorite by far. I really liked the storyline and the kids who worshipped Link were kool. I never played Ocarina of Time but before  TP was released, Majora's Mask was my favorite 3D Zelda.


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## Sinkhead (Jan 3, 2008)

Ocarina of Time, no question about it. It was and still is one of the best games ever.


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## sekhu (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd say Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker are on par with one another. OofT introduced us to a 3d link and Majora's Mask was the most original title of the LOZ games, I didn't play it too much and didn't get into it - though for many it was one of the best titles.

LOZ:TP has down is the worst 3D Zelda game to date. It was absolute crap, and was FAN SERVICE for all those whiny bitches that thought Wind Waker looked gay, using names like PowerPuff Link and the like. All those bastards wanted an adventure that revisited Link in an older form. I loathe Twilight Princess, it's the bastard child that should never have been born. One of the best selling Wii titles being a GC Port with tacked on wii controls is pretty damn sad.

I hope Nintendo go back to making an innovative Zelda game again, without tacked controls and making and enjoyable, original action-adventure game. Nintendo did say that Twilight Princess will be the last recognisable Zelda title. Or something to that effect


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## Beware (Jan 3, 2008)

QUOTE(754boy @ Jan 3 2008 said:


> Twilight princess is my favorite by far. I really liked the storyline and the kids who worshipped Link were kool. I never played Ocarina of Time but beforeÂ TP was released, Majora's Mask was my favorite 3D Zelda.








 BLASPHEMY!!!  TP is just a prettier OoT anyways.  OoT is my favorite Zelda and likely my favorite game ever.


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## kellyan95 (Jan 3, 2008)

QUOTE(VBKirby @ Jan 3 2008 said:


> Majora's Mask for sure. I've praised this game on several forums, and now I'll do it again.
> 
> Majora's mask is a very unique experience. It's very dark and quite depressing. It ranges from Scary, creepy, disturbing, depressing, calming, to down right sad. If you've heard of the genre "dementia" for really bizzare anime and shows, that's what Majora's Mask falls under. It was a whole new experience to me. I'd never played a depressing game or a really creepy game before, and I've never seen or heard of anything quite like Majora's Mask. The wide range of emotions felt throughout the game was neat, and overall, the game completely fascinated me. I've never been so sucked into a game before, and I probably never will be again. It's the most intriguing, and fascinating game ever, and I love every bit of it.
> 
> Ocarina of Time is considered the best to many people, but it just doesn't have the same atmosphere as Majora's Mask that makes it so great.



If you like those kind of games, I suggest you play the king: STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl. While you're at it, watch the movie and read the book. 

I have to say TP....


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## shaunj66 (Jan 3, 2008)

Wind Waker FTW! Such a gorgeous game, and so relaxing... Brilliant characters and charming levels.


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## VBKirby (Jan 3, 2008)

The enemies were actually scarier in the N64 games than in twilight princess.


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## Commander (Jan 3, 2008)

Too be honest I am not a big fan of Zelda games.

I choose Wind Waker due to the fact I love cell shading when its done properly. All games should be cell shaded.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 4, 2008)

QUOTE(sekhu @ Jan 3 2008 said:


> LOZ:TP has down is the worst 3D Zelda game to date. It was absolute crap, and was FAN SERVICE for all those whiny bitches that thought Wind Waker looked gay, using names like PowerPuff Link and the like. All those bastards wanted an adventure that revisited Link in an older form. I loathe Twilight Princess, it's the bastard child that should never have been born. One of the best selling Wii titles being a GC Port with tacked on wii controls is pretty damn sad.
> 
> I hope Nintendo go back to making an innovative Zelda game again, without tacked controls and making and enjoyable, original action-adventure game. Nintendo did say that Twilight Princess will be the last recognisable Zelda title. Or something to that effect



I don't want to get into a thing about this, but I completely disagree. So it was fan service, so what? I happened to love Wind Waker, it's not just one of my favorite Zelda games, it's one of my favorite games _period_. But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy Twilight Princess. It wasn't _just_ for fans who were upset about Wind Waker. If anything it was more for those fans who couldn't get enough off OoT.

Now for the following example I want to take the TP Wii version out of the equation. Forget about the motion controls, that's too polarizing an issue. Let us instead focus on the GameCube version of the title. As we all know, Ocarina of Time is considered to be one of, if not the greatest game of all time (another argument I don't want to have right now), but Twilight Princess was the natural extension of that game. I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone could hate TP without hating OoT. 

Twilight Princess was, in every way, a better game. Is it so wrong to love a game that refines every aspect of the series? The GameCube version of Twilight Princess has the enhanced battle mechanics of Wind Waker. More advanced horse riding, including horseback combat. A deeper, darker, and more complex story than the average Zelda game (it wasn't simply "Zelda has been kidnapped, oh noes!"). More dungeons and a larger more detailed world than even that of Ocarina of Time. And so on. It was an improvement on every single aspect of what OoT did. How can that be a bad thing? When you improve on, arguably, one of the greatest games of all time, how does that make it "a bastard child"?

The bottom line, if you hate Twilight Princess, you hate Ocarina of Time by extension, because Twilight Princess was everything OoT was... except better. And if you choose to argue that it was _too_ similar I'll bring up two points: the only things that were similar were the tone of the visuals, the story was nothing alike. And those similarities in the tone that did exist existed because, as they've stated before... TP is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time; in both style and timeline. Hating TP for being thematically similar would be like hating Link's Awaking for being like Link to the Past. Or Phantom Hourglass for being too similar to Wind Waker. They're similar because they're directly linked.


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## _Snott_ (Jan 4, 2008)

I think TP was the best so far, but I loved Wind waker and Majoras Mask for trying something new.
When it comes to 2d and 3d Zelda games, ALttP will forever remain my favorite.


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## .TakaM (Jan 4, 2008)

Wind Waker is easily my favourite
I think it's achieved a timeless design, that will always feel great coming back to from any console in the future.
The culture, characters, areas, music, just amazing.

Majora's Mask is however, the best imo.
it's the only zelda game (and one of the few games in general) that really tried something unique, MM is a testament to how solid and versatile the zelda blueprint is, and it's certainly the least appreciated.

Twilight princess is easily the worst imo.
too many dungeons to the point of feeling like a dungeon crawler, overworld was artificial, no interesting areas except for lake hylia, characters were worthless, story was dumb.. it was basically the base of every zelda game, but they didn't build it into anything unique.
But that's what most people seemed to want.. so I dunno..


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## Jei (Jan 4, 2008)

Ocarina of Time... really, I still have the cart (and the console, obviously).


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## Hadrian (Jan 4, 2008)

OoT was awesome and has a wonderful story and presentation. An absolute classic

MM tried something different and showed a darker side to the series. I'd say it was the worse of the series BUT its still a classic game.

WW is eye candy and has some of the most amazing graphical effects and style to any game before and after. Unlike most 3D games, it won't ever look dated.  The expressions on Links face adds even more character to him. Gameplay is perfect, I loved the little things (like sticking one of those nut things on my head so a seagull eats it and then I fly as the seagull!). The score is fantastice, dramatic and really sets each scene up well. The only problem I have with it is the boring treasure hunting bit near the end. A lot of people didn't like the sailing but it was Nintendo's way of getting past the loading screen and I liked it. What would you rather have, a screen saying "loading" or just sailing around doing something?

TP was pure fan wank, I loved it but yeah way too many dungeons and the story was very generic. It kinda felt like Nintendo was trying to please those idiots who saw WW as "childish".

I guess its Wind Waker but they all have their moments of greatness. When I play OoT again I'm sure my mind will change and same with WW afterwards.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 4, 2008)

I don't understand this... TOO many dungeons? How can people complain about _more_ content?

My real problem though, are people's thoughts on the story being generic:

[title:Massive Twilight Princess spoilers ahead]How on earth can any of you even compare OoT's story to Twilight Princess'? 

*Ocarina of Time*: In OoT the plotline is as follows: the Princess has been captured by the big bad, and it's your destiny to rescue her. It's the plot of every fairytale, every Zelda game... hell, it's even the plot of ever _Mario_ game. The _only_ things about that plot that can be considered original is A) the the time travel aspect, and B) Shiek. Other than that, as much as I adore OoT, it was typical Zelda formula.

Very few of the Zelda storylines can be considered original. Wind Waker's story, for example, is just OoT with islands (IE Ganon comes back and captures the princess). The only one that I consider to be really and truly groundbreaking would be Majora's Mask. If I was to rank Twilight Princess in originality, it would be directly under MM.

*Twilight Princess*: In Twilight Princess you start out as a teenager (in most Zeldas you typically start as a child), and you start your adventure looking for someone who isn't the princess; but is instead a close personal friend. In your travels you discover an Imp-like creature who then assists you as you learn to master your newfound wolf transformation abilities. In your search for your friend you have to find Zelda in passing (IE she's not the central damsel in distress). When you finally _do_ find her... SHE DIES (or so you think at the time). From here you find that you're charged with a new destiny; save the kingdom from a lunatic enemy who _isn't_ Ganon.

As always your travels take you to dungeons, you need to find the Master Sword, medallions, etc etc. It is only in those respects that this game is anything like its predecessors. And to fault the game for using that formula would be to fault every Legend of Zelda game _ever made_. So then it comes to the climax. You fight the the loony Zant on only to discover he was in fact being controlled by Ganondorf after all. Turns out there were hints all over the game leading up to this revelation. So you then battle him on multiple fronts... and he sicks the Princess on you. Turns out she's not dead, but she is now under the control of evil. So unlike the heavily cliched OoT or WW, not only is the princess not your original goal (she's hardly involved at all), but now she's your _enemy_.

After the battle is said and done it is revealed that, unlike you were led to believe, Zelda was _not_ the titled "Twilight Princess"; your faithful companion Midna was in fact this person all along. And here comes another first for the series... not only is that revealed, but it's also revealed she loves Link and genuinely wishes she could be with him. So we get the first real confirmed romantic attraction in Legend of Zelda history.

Everything I've mentioned above in Twilight Princess' plotline is something new to the series. To say the story was generic is not only an insult to the typically generically plotted Zelda series, but an affront to writers everywhere. They finally, _finally_ do something new, and we the fandom shun them for it? For shame.


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## VBKirby (Jan 5, 2008)

I completely disagree with everything PharaohsVizier said about Majora's mask, except that it was creepy, and the stone temple with that song was annoying. Though if you watch speed runs of the game, you will see there are tons of shortcuts for that section. The words we always sung to that song was: "The...Song of wasting moooore tiiiime"


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## anime_junkie (Jan 5, 2008)

None of them. I prefer the 2d games. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





And OOS & OOA were the apex of the series, imo.


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## natkoden (Jan 5, 2008)

QUOTE(anime_junkie @ Jan 5 2008 said:


> None of them. I prefer the 2d games.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Totally Agree


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 5, 2008)

QUOTE(anime_junkie @ Jan 5 2008 said:


> None of them. I prefer the 2d games.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Guys, keep it on topic. None isn't one of the options. Pick one, or don't post.


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## Railgun (Jan 5, 2008)

its still Zelda OoT!
The best Zelda Game i've ever played!


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## pasc (Jan 5, 2008)

ZOoT of course ! I may haven't tried some of the others, but I still think that the story, the open worlds, the Items,the Music and the characters fit VERY well together ! A Masterpiece, I wished they could port it to the DS for on the go play (please... psp fanboys, hold you tongue on this one, ok ?)


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## Guzzie (Jan 5, 2008)

QUOTE(anime_junkie @ Jan 5 2008 said:


> None of them. I prefer the 2d games.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Agreed.

1. Majoras Mask - Dark side of the series and the most challenging game. I still haven't beaten it 100% yet because of the freaking Sun mask. Loved the mask element of the game. Completely original feeling.
2. Wind Waker - New art design, felt like a real Zelda title. Just as epic as OoT. Did something different 
3. Ocarina Of Time - Great game, extremely overrated though. Had a very epic feeling.
4. Twilight Princess - Didn't really bring anything new to the table. Shallow story and somewhat boring overall.

For whatever it matters, I played them in the order they came out. I think some people just like the first game they played the most :/.

And if you were to consider Phantom Hourglass a 3D Zelda (it has 3D models). It would be at the very bottom of my list. It takes pretty much every Zelda element and throws it out the window. Dungeon Map and Compass, hello Nintendo where are they? Way fewer items than past games and a pretty short and repetitive story. The controls don't work so well when compared to older games either.


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## ackers (Jan 5, 2008)

Zelda: Oot

One of the first games I ever played actually. When I was a kiddun it felt like I was on a real adventure. A true masterpiece. I even bought the Oot official soundtrack lol (not that I ever listen to it now).

In my eyes it's the greatest game of all time. Then there's FFX...


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## Fakie! (Jan 5, 2008)

QUOTE(VBKirby @ Jan 3 2008 said:


> Majora's Mask for sure. I've praised this game on several forums, and now I'll do it again.
> 
> Majora's mask is a very unique experience. It's very dark and quite depressing. It ranges from Scary, creepy, disturbing, depressing, calming, to down right sad. If you've heard of the genre "dementia" for really bizzare anime and shows, that's what Majora's Mask falls under. It was a whole new experience to me. I'd never played a depressing game or a really creepy game before, and I've never seen or heard of anything quite like Majora's Mask. The wide range of emotions felt throughout the game was neat, and overall, the game completely fascinated me. I've never been so sucked into a game before, and I probably never will be again. It's the most intriguing, and fascinating game ever, and I love every bit of it.
> 
> Ocarina of Time is considered the best to many people, but it just doesn't have the same atmosphere as Majora's Mask that makes it so great.




Haha I feel that way too. It's definitely my favourite Zelda game.


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## VBKirby (Jan 6, 2008)

You should do all of the side quests and get everything. Because unless you do that, you won't feel the whole experience of the game. Also, you don't get the good credits. 

I think one of the saddest things of the game is at the very beginning of the game where you see the deformed Deku scrub. It is heavily implied that this is the Deku Butler's son. His son went missing and has never returned. the Deku Butler says (after you beat him in his race) that you look very similar to my son. Remember that each transformation mask has the spirit of someone else in it. It is highly likely that Skull Kid stole the Deku Butler's son's soul and used it to transform Link. The scrub he took it from? yes, that scrub at the beginning. If you beat the Deku Butler in his race and get the Mask of Scents, It will show him sitting and crying at the deformed Deku scrub that was at the beginning of the game during the credits.


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## JKR Firefox (Jan 6, 2008)

Ocarina of Time for sure.

I remember getting the game for Christmas to this day.  I got it, and me and my brother ran into my room and played it for five days straight until it was complete.

It was so much fun completing all of the side quests including getting the Giant Sword, which took me multiple tries 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




All in all, it was one of my favorite gaming memories


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## Deleted member 110780 (Jan 8, 2008)

I haven't gotten to play TP yet, so I'm going with MM.


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## .TakaM (Jan 8, 2008)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Jan 5 2008 said:


> I don't understand this... TOO many dungeons? How can people complain about _more_ content?


ooh a cave, oh it's a fucking mini dungeon
ooh a snow mansion, oh it's another fucking dungeon
ooh I finally get to go to the twilight realm, oh it's another fucking dungeon
ooh I finally get to go inside the castle, surprise, another god damn dungeon

and when you weren't in a dungeon you were in a completely hollow and artificial world, the NPCs in the castle town were nothing, the fields may as well have not existed, home town was immediately worthless once you left.
Dungeons are never the highlight of a zelda game for me, it's all about the world and characters, where wind waker and majoras mask absolutely wins


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## Jaejae (Jan 8, 2008)

Out of the aboveoptions, Ocarina of Time, due to it being the only option on the list I have played.

But my favorite would be PH, not because the game itself was particularly impressive, but it was PH that got me into the Zelda series, PH is what made me want to play that copy of OoT I got for my N64 all those years ago.


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## Mortenga (Jan 23, 2008)

Neither.

You all suck.


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## raulpica (Jan 23, 2008)

Twilight Princess, surely.

I've played Ocarina of Time, but TP wins over OoT for a lot of reasons. Better graphics, great Wii controls and better story.



QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Jan 4 2008 said:


> I don't want to get into a thing about this, but I completely disagree. So it was fan service, so what? I happened to love Wind Waker, it's not just one of my favorite Zelda games, it's one of my favorite games _period_. But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy Twilight Princess. It wasn't _just_ for fans who were upset about Wind Waker. If anything it was more for those fans who couldn't get enough off OoT.
> 
> Now for the following example I want to take the TP Wii version out of the equation. Forget about the motion controls, that's too polarizing an issue. Let us instead focus on the GameCube version of the title. As we all know, Ocarina of Time is considered to be one of, if not the greatest game of all time (another argument I don't want to have right now), but Twilight Princess was the natural extension of that game. I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone could hate TP without hating OoT.
> 
> ...


QFT. Exactly what I think.


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## The Teej (Jan 23, 2008)

I like OoT more. Yes, TP is the better game and all that jazz, but this is what is your _favourite_ 3D Zelda game, not what's the best. 

TP might have got my vote if it had included VO, but no, it didn't.


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## Samutz (Jan 23, 2008)

QUOTE(Jax @ Jan 3 2008 said:


> OOT.
> No contest here...


QFT

OoT is the game that finally got me hooked on the series. The older games, such as LttP, never could get my attention quite as a well. It wasn't until after OoT that I was able to figure out the older games.


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## dakeyras (Jan 26, 2008)

I disagree with people saying that TP was a direct sequel of OOT. For me, it was more of a direct clone. Basically giving me the feeling I was playing a game I had already played. Yes, there are many similarities between OOT and TP. But OOT is a game from 98, while TP is from 2006. My standards for games went up quite  a bit in those few years. 

So if I feel that TP feels empty, that does not mean OOT suffers from the same problem, because back in the days when playing OOT the standards were lower. Basically, if  compare my OOT experience and my TP experience, the OOT one is so much better it's not even funny. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Also, TP is NOT a direct sequal to OOT in timeline. MM is the direct sequel. Nintendo said TP was somewhere before wind waker and after ocarina, but seriously, I think they're talking out of their anus since they've hardly ever bothered to make the zelda timeline make any sense. I'm glad you know where to fit in TP in the timeline, cause seriously it doesn't fit anywhere really.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 26, 2008)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Jan 26 2008 said:


> Also, TP is NOT a direct sequal to OOT in timeline. MM is the direct sequel. Nintendo said TP was somewhere before wind waker and after ocarina, but seriously, I think they're talking out of their anus since they've hardly ever bothered to make the zelda timeline make any sense. I'm glad you know where to fit in TP in the timeline, cause seriously it doesn't fit anywhere really.



**Spoilers ahead regarding the end of OoT**

Actually, according to Eiji Aonuma himself the timeline is split. It goes like this: Link from OoT has his adventures, goes into the future, etc, then Zelda sends him back in time to re-live his childhood. The dark future where he defeated Ganondorf is so messed up that the world is flooded, then however much time later... Wind Waker happens, followed by Phantom Hourglass. 

Then the second part of the timeline goes like this: At the end of OoT Link is sent back to relive his childhood. He goes back in time and warns the royal family that Ganondorf it trying to conquer Hyrule. Link then goes and has his Majora's Mask adventures. Fastforward however many hundreds of years and Twilight Princess happens.

>>>>>>>>>>>> (Childhood past) > Majora's Mask > Hundred(s) of years pass > Twilight Princess
Ocarina of Time >
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Dark future) > Hundred(s) of years pass > Wind Waker > Phantom Hourglass

And that's the official word as of now. Of course that's always subject to change with future installments. So the term "direct sequel" is incorrect. It's not a direct sequel in the sense that the Link in OoT/MM is the Link in TP, it's not. It's a direct sequel in that the events of OoT directly create/tie-in to the events of TP.


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## Vater Unser (Jan 26, 2008)

QUOTE(raulpica @ Jan 23 2008 said:


> Twilight Princess, surely.
> 
> I've played Ocarina of Time, but TP wins over OoT for a lot of reasons. Better graphics, *great Wii controls* and better story.








Hell no...the Wii controls are so cheap and tacked on it hurts...they literally replaced the attack-button of the Cube version with a shake-Wiimote command in the Wii version and added a very basic pointer control for aiming...
(yes, it does have some neat gimmicks like the use-nunchuck-as-shield move, but it still doesn't make that big of a difference..hell, even the swordfighting in Red Steel is done way better)
You can't even control the camera in the Wii version...how much does that suck? All they had to do was assign any button (like the one that is instead dedicated to turning the on-screen map on/off) to switch to a camera-control mode where you could then change the camera position with the analog stick (or the Wiimote)...there's no excuse for that...
So you're stuck with placing the camera behind you with the Z-trigger...but guess what happens when there's an enemy nearby? The camera locks-on to the enemy and there's nothing you can do other than killing the enemy in order to set the camera behind you...It's especially annoying if you want to jump over a gap and need to set the camera behind you so you won't miss the jump...
And what about the marble game where you tilt the Wiimote to control the mable? They totally blew up that one, I'm not even going into further detail here...
Now _that's_ what I call great Wii controls 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



And these controls are what took them a whole year to port the Cube game to the Wii? It really makes me mad, because we _might_ have played Zelda TP like 6-12 months earlier on the GC if it hasn't been for the Wii version...

As for the story, that's really a matter of taste...IMO the story of TP has many elements that just don't fit into the Zelda universe...the Twilight Zone makes the whole game seem like a "The Jetsons meet the Flintstones" thing...a parallel sci-fi world inside a fantasy game? it just doesn't fit...
Imagine you're watching Lord of the Rings when suddenly a phone booth appears out of nowhere and Bill & Ted hop out and abduct Frodo and Sam..._that's_ how out of place the Twilight Zone is, if you ask me


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 26, 2008)

QUOTE(Vater Unser @ Jan 26 2008 said:


> QUOTE(raulpica @ Jan 23 2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Twilight Princess, surely.
> ...



There's oh-so much wrong with this comment. First of all, all of your criticisms? WII VERSION. Forget the Wii version, forget how you feel about the controls. What about the GameCube version? It plays exactly like Wind Waker, which played amazingly. So far what I'm seeing is a lot of people who dislike the game because they disliked the Wii version. Ok, we get it, you don't like waggle, you like traditional controls... so get the GameCube version instead. Don't blame the game as a whole for the shortcomings of the port. That's like blaming Ocarina of Time for not using a Nintendo 64 controller when you download it on the virtual console. You're blaming the content for the controls, and it's wrong.

And as for your comments on the parallel worlds, it was nothing _nothing_ like that. It was a light and dark world system. No different than A Link to the Past. What you saw and assumed was future tech was actually magic and symbols and such, not technology. The things you saw in Twilight world were magical artifacts and temples and such. Your perception was at fault, not the game.

Also, love your Bill and Ted comment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though people, stop *STOP* judging Twilight Princess by the Wii version. If you don't like the Wii controls on it, then play the GameCube version, because most of the complaints I'm seeing here are "The wii waggle controls were...", "couldn't adjust the camera with the Wii controls...", etc etc. Judge the game on its own merits, not how you perceive the Wiimote's controls. You don't like the story? Fine. You don't like the darker tone? Cool.


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## Vater Unser (Jan 26, 2008)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Jan 26 2008 said:


> Seriously though people, stop *STOP* judging Twilight Princess by the Wii version. If you don't like the Wii controls on it, then play the GameCube version, because most of the complaints I'm seeing here are "The wii waggle controls were...", "couldn't adjust the camera with the Wii controls...", etc etc.


My rant was just referring to the supposedly "great Wii controls", that's why I marked them bold  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I know the controls are better in the Cube version, but the controls aren't what makes me like this game less than OoT anyway...

-Warning: personal opinion ahead-
I'm also aware that travelling into parallel worlds or between time has been a subject in various Zelda games before, but in Twilight Princess it's just a bit too over the top for my tastes...The Twilight Zone just looks too high-tech to fit into the setting...it reminds me too much of those digital computer cyberspace worlds you used to see in countless old movies (like Tron or Lawnmower Man)...
And on top of it, Link transforms into a wolf and is accompanied by an imp that uses its hair as a third hand  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Pulling the Master Sword from its stone and putting it back to travel back and forth in time is a much simpler idea which in my opinion just works better with the setting...


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 26, 2008)

QUOTE(Vater Unser @ Jan 26 2008 said:


> -Warning: personal opinion ahead-
> I'm also aware that travelling into parallel worlds or between time has been a subject in various Zelda games before, but in Twilight Princess it's just a bit too over the top for my tastes...The Twilight Zone just looks too high-tech to fit into the setting...it reminds me too much of those digital computer cyberspace worlds you used to see in countless old movies (like Tron or Lawnmower Man)...
> And on top of it, Link transforms into a wolf and is accompanied by an imp that uses its hair as a third handÂ
> 
> ...



Now that's a suitable reason to dislike the game. I may not agree with the stance, but it's a reasonable perspective to take.

However it does seem as though you're looking for something to dislike about the game. Is transforming into a wolf any more out there than Link transforming into a bunny in the dark world of A Link to the Past? Or putting on a mask and becoming a Goron, or a Zora in Majora's Mask? Or Ganondorf transforming into a huge Moblin-esque creature (Ganon) in Ocarina of Time? And for that matter is Midna extending her hair into a hand any more out there than these creatures from Wind Waker?

What you consider to be odd departures, I consider staples of the series. The Legend of Zelda has always and will always have its odd aspects. When you really think about it is a wolf transformation any more illogical than turning into a pink bunny (ala LttP)? Is an imp-creature assisting you any more radical than a crossdressing princess posing as a ninja (ala Sheik in OoT)? The answer to both, and any further comparisons is a definitive no.

You're splitting hairs to find fault in said aspects. The Zelda series has always prided itself on such things, and by picking at them here you make it look like you're merely after something to hate. And that goes for all of you! All of you so-called fans who would look at OoT's dark theme and say "Hell yeah!" and then look at TP's same tone and say "Lame". You, all of you, are trying to pick apart Twilight Princess for features it shares with all Zelda titles. This isn't a case of "more of the same" these aspects are staples of each and every Zelda game.

If you hate transformations in TP then by definition you must hate them in LttP and Majora's Mask. If you hate alternate dimensions/timeline idea put forth by Twilight Princess then you also hate Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Seasons/Ages, and a Link to the Past. To hate Twilight Princess for the features listed here is to hate Zelda as a series. You're trying to find faults that do no exist. And should you still consider them faults then they are faults with the series as a whole and not this one game; to think otherwise is pure bias.

But, eh, forget my rants. It's not my job to try and change your opinions. Nor was it my intention to completely bring any of you around to my way of thinking. I'm merely trying to say you can dislike this game if you wish, just please please do so for real reasons. Such as the lack of side quests (as in helping out townspeople and such), or somesuch.


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## Vater Unser (Jan 26, 2008)

How about letting people decide for themselves what they like and what they don't like?
You can try as hard as you want, but I'm certainly not changing my mind...

I'm not nitpicking or splitting any hairs...The controls and the story are only two of the many reasons why I'm disappointed of Zelda TP, and it's not just about small oddities...

It's natural that a game that's being released 8 years after OoT has better graphics, more cinematic cut-scenes, some slightly polished game mechanics and a few more people running around in Hyrule City, but that doesn't make it an overall better game than OoT..

Also, just because other Zelda games share similar features with Twilight Princess doesn't mean that those are the exact same things...
Yes, OoT has a dark theme, too, and yes, Link transforms into different creatures in ALTTP and Majora's Mask...
But why does anyone have to like Zelda TP's theme when he likes OoT's theme? They're both dark, but they're still no the same...


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 26, 2008)

QUOTE(Vater Unser @ Jan 26 2008 said:


> How about letting people decide for themselves what they like and what they don't like?
> You can try as hard as you want, but I'm certainly not changing my mind...
> 
> If you notice I state at the bottom of my previous comment that I'm not attempting to change people's minds. What I want are legitimate reasons from people. Things like "Changing into a wolf doesn't belong in Zelda..." might be a reason to you, but it's not a good one. Because changing into other creatures is a fundamental design feature of countless Zelda games. It absolutely belongs in the Zelda series, and always has.
> ...


Yes it does. That's exactly what makes it a better game. When the story is more complex, the game is longer and more in-depth dripping with references to the past, when the gameplay mechanics have evolved and been perfected, when the visuals have improved on every level... when all of those features come together? That does in fact make it a better game.

Why can't anyone just be happy for once? When Wind Waker was revealed everyone went "Boooo, that's kiddy! We want something dark and more like Ocarina of Time!". Then when Twilight Princess was revealed everyone reacted like this: "Yay! It's just like Ocarina of Time! Bigger, better, darker..." blah blah etc. And finally after it was released people started to change their tune suddenly "like Ocarina of Time but better" was a bad thing, suddenly it was "Boooo, we want a lighthearted Wind Waker type Zelda!".

Now I've said my piece, and someone will undoubtably come along and say that I'm being the hypocritical and/or biased one. But the thing is, all of this defending of Twilight Princess? Yes, I think it's a wonderful game, a masterpiece. The best in the series, even. But even with all of that I voted for Wind Waker as my _favorite_. With my endless debating you'd think my love for the game knows no bounds, but that would be false. At the end of the day I can still differentiate between the best, the most nostalgic, and my favorite.


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## dakeyras (Jan 27, 2008)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Jan 26 2008 said:


> Going on about the timeline



So basically they're on crack. There are still parts missing..I'm not denying it's impossible for it to be after OOT/MM but god, sequel is a big word. It just feels like they first make games and then try to justify their timeline.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 27, 2008)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Jan 27 2008 said:


> QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Jan 26 2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Going on about the timeline
> ...



The only games that are even confirmed in the timeline are the ones I listed. The rest are up in the air. I'm of the mind that I'll take their 3D era time line at their word, and won't bother with the rest. Too much hassle.


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## pubjoe (Mar 2, 2008)

Not the most populer game... But I like Wind Waker the most.  It is the most playable zelda, fluid and fun just to run about doing nothing - it maintains the feel of link to the past.  It's a shame that the game was rushed a and lost a few dungeons - they also stretched out the sailing too much at the end.


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