# Chinese police and Tencent take down “world’s biggest” game cheating ring



## AncientBoi (Mar 31, 2021)

I know nothing of the subject on cheating. [hides all cheats and software]


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## FAST6191 (Mar 31, 2021)

I am still far from convinced that cheating in games has need of the filth being set upon you or courts getting involved.


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## BlazeMasterBM (Mar 31, 2021)

Such an investigation? For cheating in games? *sees that it's in China* Oh. Nevermind.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 31, 2021)

BlazeMasterBM said:


> Such an investigation? For cheating in games? *sees that it's in China* Oh. Nevermind.



While "because China" is a thing and major factor in this

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/blizzard-sues-glider-creator

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/epic-games-settles-three-year-lawsuit-against-teenage-fortnite-cheater/

https://gbatemp.net/threads/man-arrested-in-japan-for-selling-hacked-shiny-pokemon.582405/


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## CMDreamer (Mar 31, 2021)

BlazeMasterBM said:


> Such an investigation? For cheating in games? *sees that it's in China* Oh. Nevermind.



Being an online game, the point the investigation was made on China doesn't isolate its consequences. I don't think that they made all that profit from only chinese cheating customers.


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## eyeliner (Mar 31, 2021)

CMDreamer said:


> Being an online game, the point the investigation was made on China doesn't isolate its consequences. I don't think that they made all that profit from only chinese cheating customers.


The profit part possibly was the motivator for the bust. I'd wager the Communist Party didn't like it one bit, considering that legitimate billionaire businesses operate there, like Tencent and that severely cuts profits, as the player base gets destroyed?


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 31, 2021)

No cheating allowed in China unless first approved by the Chinese Communist Party.


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## HideoKojima (Mar 31, 2021)

Wonder who's really behind it.


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## DinohScene (Mar 31, 2021)

To bad they can't cheat their way out of jail :')


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## eskinner3742 (Mar 31, 2021)

Am totally guilty of dealing out hacked pokemons on the playgrounds back in the day. I think I was the key supplier of modded mons in my town with prices ranging from 25 cents to $5 per monster. Custom orders available and shiny caterpies were always free.


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## x65943 (Mar 31, 2021)

How is that illegal? I mean I guess maybe they were committing tax fraud?


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## Zyvyn (Mar 31, 2021)

eyeliner said:


> View attachment 255400​
> Kunshan police partenered with Tencent in order to crack down a cheat enabler group, who are mostly dedicated to providing cheats in the game Valorant. It is the greatest anti-cheat operation ever, according to the Chinese Police. The operation reportedly earned as much as $10,000 daily, with calculations estimating that the total profits could be around $750 million dollars during the organization’s lifetime.
> 
> Among the assets seized, valued at 46 million dollars, were high end sports cars.
> ...


For once Tencent actually does some good.


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## diggeloid (Mar 31, 2021)

Jailed for cheating in a video game? That's pretty weak, where's the death penalty?! Xi Jin pooh letting us gamers down.


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## BigOnYa (Mar 31, 2021)

I wonder how much money was *Really* confiscated though? I'm sure China took a great deal of it first, before reporting the rest.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 31, 2021)

serves these fuckers right. cheating scum


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## FAST6191 (Mar 31, 2021)

x65943 said:


> How is that illegal? I mean I guess maybe they were committing tax fraud?


Real reason.
Because they threaten the money spinner of a friend of someone in power there (said person in power likely also having an interest), be it acting as competition for microtransactions or for the more nebulous "because nobody will want to play it any more".

What the underlying law they are trying this time I am not sure. Usually they try either a damage to a service, improper access to a service or contrive some flavour of fraud (be it access to the service, sale of non authentic goods or similar). I am sure if they can then some kind of failure to do proper tax return or our undercover asked and you did not deliver but took money will be thrown in too.


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## ZeroT21 (Mar 31, 2021)

LOL, nice justification, these so-called interventions only ever take place if there's money to be gained


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## Xzi (Mar 31, 2021)

I thought cheating was essentially encouraged in Chinese culture?  Like an, "ends justify the means" type philosophy.


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## Gamemaster1379 (Mar 31, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I thought cheating was essentially encouraged in Chinese culture?  Like an, "ends justify the means" type philosophy.


Cheating without getting caught is encouraged to the ends justify the means philosophy as you say. But I think that also relates a lot towards progression of self/country.

Gaming is international (sometimes, when China isn't blocking it off), and a "recreational" activity, so doing so is effectively just low integrity (and not something a lot of cheaters elegantly hide -- e.g. aimbots, wallhacks, invulnerability), so it's "low integrity" and goes against social credit scores.


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## ZeroFX (Mar 31, 2021)

Yikes, but well it is china we're talking about, and a very big company of china. So shitty things like that happens.

And no, i don't think cheating or "selling cheats" on a digital game is something you stop with arresting, although is something I would never do (cheat or selling cheats), i think you fix that with patches and anti cheat improvement (better yet if such anti cheat ist intrusive like the valorant one, guess this news just proves that ring-0 anti cheat is just for tracking).


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## Viri (Mar 31, 2021)

Wow, I guess there really is a place where cheating in Mario Kart online, can get your door kicked in, and sent to a forced labor camp.


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## Deleted User (Mar 31, 2021)

On balance, for all the units sold, the folks that created the latest slew of Nintendo Switch cracks don't have a single luxury Sports Car to their name. Yet they're taken to task in the United States and the so-called Democratic legal system ruled against them.

So scale is undoubtedly a contributing factor to this, and I wouldn't be surprised if these people added salt to the wound by promoting their gains in the popular Social Media sites there. 

As such, I fail to see how this effort to combat cheating in the Gaming industry is something uniquely Chinese.


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## gamesquest1 (Mar 31, 2021)

DinohScene said:


> To bad they can't cheat their way out of jail :')


I'm sure they can and will, they will simply be assigned jobs hacking foreign website/games/businesses


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## the_randomizer (Mar 31, 2021)

Pretty tough coming from a country that encourages piracy and bootlegging


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 31, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> I am still far from convinced that cheating in games has need of the filth being set upon you or courts getting involved.


I disagree. Cheating ruins gaming for the majority just so a minority can enjoy themselves. It hurts business as well. Imagine a cinema in which 2 people stand up and scream and try to block the screen. It is not illegal per se but it is ruining it for everyone. Cheating should be punished. (at least on public matches)


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## Joe88 (Mar 31, 2021)

South korea in particular I believe is is actually illegal to develop/use/sell/distribute cheats for online games, its simply because how online gaming is so big there.
China has already has always been strict when it came to cheating, im sure some people have seen the images of students in desks tasking tests outside on a running track which proctors keeping on eye on them to prevent any type of cheating. This though I believe is just tencent being in the ccp's pocket.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 31, 2021)

tbh I'm mostly cool with cheating as long as you don't do it with online multiplayer and online games as to not have unfair advantages and disadvantages over other players, but that's just me.


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## raxadian (Apr 1, 2021)

I think the article is missing the world "online" somewhere.  As in "Online cheating group".


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## banjo2 (Apr 1, 2021)

raxadian said:


> I think the article is missing the world "online" somewhere.  As in "Online cheating group".


Valorant is multiplayer-only (afaik) anyway so


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## Lunar (Apr 1, 2021)

Good. Hopefully they took out a chunk of the market for PUBG cheats as well because that game has been infested. I've actually know some people that have used cheats before and not only are they super expensive but they require full access to your computer in order to run. It's not only a waste of time but it puts money into these Chinese companies' pockets so they can go spend money on super cars.


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## raxadian (Apr 1, 2021)

banjo2 said:


> Valorant is multiplayer-only (afaik) anyway so



Yeah but the headline makes it sound like the police wil bust into your home fir using a cheat in any game instead of just online games.


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## leon315 (Apr 1, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> I am still far from convinced that cheating in games has need of the filth being set upon you or courts getting involved.





BlazeMasterBM said:


> Such an investigation? For cheating in games? *sees that it's in China* Oh. Nevermind.


It's not just simple as a single individual cheats in game, according to the news, it's an organisation specialised creation of cheats and sell them for profits, which is illegal as f.
Beside any tencent Esport game in China requires you to input your ID code, if you are banned cheating online, you are done forever. forever.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 1, 2021)

leon315 said:


> It's not just simple as a single individual cheats in game, according to the news, it's an organisation specialised creation of cheats and sell them for profits, which is illegal as f.


And? Assuming it is illegal then should it be illegal? Does it matter if it is some skiddie that read https://web.archive.org/web/20080309104350/http://etk.scener.org/?op=tutorial and had the wherewithal to search "PC program memory editor" afterwards or a publicly traded company with everything down to a janitorial budget?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I disagree. Cheating ruins gaming for the majority just so a minority can enjoy themselves. It hurts business as well. Imagine a cinema in which 2 people stand up and scream and try to block the screen. It is not illegal per se but it is ruining it for everyone. Cheating should be punished. (at least on public matches)


There is a difference between being banned from a service and having the filth tool up and kick down your front door before dragging you in front of a court and having it fine you.


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## HarveyHouston (Apr 1, 2021)

In regards to my Rock Band Customs Project, I was accused by an "ethical hacking" group of cheating, because Rock Band 3 can connect online and I recover the DLC. While it may not be considered "ethical", it's not the same thing as cheating. Cheating is when you can get gacha stuff for free, like FortNite coins or Asphalt 9 tokens. What I've done is tried to recover DLC that is no longer available for older Rock Band editions, and as for the online bit, it's only to play with other people remotely to be part of a virtual band - no gacha element involved at all. Now, there are Gecko codes for the Wii, and ways to manipulate the game on other consoles which I guess could be considered "cheating", but they can work fully offline and are not related to DLC.

Cheating to make money is highly illegal, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I would (and have) gladly buy something that a game I like offers, including DLC, so long as it remains available to buy. It's only when it's no longer available that I would try to get it through illegitimate means, if there's no way I can get it legitimately - and I don't do that with everything I like, either.

So, yeah. China may not be our friend, but these guys should have been taken down sooner. Unfortunately, I have read where China has a huge problem with piracy (maybe because of all the communism?). In fact, Nintendo had to add new security measures to their hardware due to Chinese pirates, IIRC.


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## anhminh (Apr 2, 2021)

I sure hope that hacker don't take this as challenge and create free cheat for the game.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 2, 2021)

HarvHouHacker said:


> In regards to my Rock Band Customs Project, I was accused by an "ethical hacking" group of cheating, because Rock Band 3 can connect online and I recover the DLC. While it may not be considered "ethical", it's not the same thing as cheating. Cheating is when you can get gacha stuff for free, like FortNite coins or Asphalt 9 tokens. What I've done is tried to recover DLC that is no longer available for older Rock Band editions, and as for the online bit, it's only to play with other people remotely to be part of a virtual band - no gacha element involved at all. Now, there are Gecko codes for the Wii, and ways to manipulate the game on other consoles which I guess could be considered "cheating", but they can work fully offline and are not related to DLC.
> 
> Cheating to make money is highly illegal, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I would (and have) gladly buy something that a game I like offers, including DLC, so long as it remains available to buy. It's only when it's no longer available that I would try to get it through illegitimate means, if there's no way I can get it legitimately - and I don't do that with everything I like, either.
> 
> So, yeah. China may not be our friend, but these guys should have been taken down sooner. Unfortunately, I have read where China has a huge problem with piracy (maybe because of all the communism?). In fact, Nintendo had to add new security measures to their hardware due to Chinese pirates, IIRC.



Can't say I have ever run into an ethical hacking group proclaiming things when wandering around the game space.

I have met those with all sorts of ideas* but caring that much about Rock Band is a new one.

*quick list
1) You have your garden variety no commercial games no how set. As well as the lesser degree "not available by any other means" types, and backups are OK I guess types.
2) Anti cheat of various flavours from no online, to online but not competitive/ranked, to never under any circumstances including offline.
3) Back during the Zelda DS dpad hacks there were those that thought those hacking were insulting the devs by doing it.
4) Whatever the pokemon set were doing. When various legendaries were leaked, the whole Nintendo not being very good at online security and broadcasting the opponent pick in plaintext while there was still time on the clock to pick a team of your own thing, and generated vs 100% legit vs illegal combos stuff is ever the fun debate.

"Cheating to make money is highly illegal"
Is it though and should it be? Cheating at a game of chance in actual gambling... rather different matter. Taking some payment to provide some cheats... I am less sold on that being a matter for the law. No problems with all involved being kicked/banned from the service but that is a different matter.


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## HarveyHouston (Apr 2, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> Can't say I have ever run into an ethical hacking group proclaiming things when wandering around the game space.
> 
> I have met those with all sorts of ideas* but caring that much about Rock Band is a new one.
> 
> ...


Some good points pointed out, here. You must wear glasses.


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## leon315 (Apr 2, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> And? Assuming it is illegal then should it be illegal? Does it matter if it is some skiddie that read https://web.archive.org/web/20080309104350/http://etk.scener.org/?op=tutorial and had the wherewithal to search "PC program memory editor" afterwards or a publicly traded company with everything down to a janitorial budget?


you missed the point..... are u sure u are still on earth, are u still with us?!


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## FAST6191 (Apr 2, 2021)

leon315 said:


> you missed the point..... are u sure u are still on earth, are u still with us?!


You said it is a hardcore hacking team, might even by typing on green text terminals they are that hardcore. Raking in the profits from it and that such things were illegal as fuck.

I said is it really illegal (China will just make up something to have it stick if it bothers the wrong people) and if it is should it be? What does it matter if it is such as above, or some skiddie that just learned about memory viewing and comparing on their gameshark?
Ban them and their clients by all means but sending in the filth to kick down doors, slap cuffs on people and steal all their stuff... that is harder to justify.


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## leon315 (Apr 2, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> You said it is a hardcore hacking team, might even by typing on green text terminals they are that hardcore. Raking in the profits from it and that such things were illegal as fuck.
> 
> I said is it really illegal (China will just make up something to have it stick if it bothers the wrong people) and if it is should it be? What does it matter if it is such as above, or some skiddie that just learned about memory viewing and comparing on their gameshark?
> Ban them and their clients by all means but sending in the filth to kick down doors, slap cuffs on people and steal all their stuff... that is harder to justify.


honestly with amount of matches ruined in WARZONE and in Hunted showdown cauz of cheaters, i hope all nations could criminalize those who code cheats and sell them as profit, like Chinese police did.
But i don't  recall anything political as you said related this operation, as excuse to crack down any company, why you guys always have such "fantasy" to associate China with politics? remember that Tencent is just a entertainment company maybe the intention was truly genuine and wants to protect its customers from online cheaters?


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## FAST6191 (Apr 2, 2021)

leon315 said:


> honestly with amount of matches ruined in WARZONE and in Hunted showdown cauz of cheaters, i hope all nations could criminalize those who code cheats and sell them as profit, like Chinese police did.
> But i don't  recall anything political as you said related this operation, as excuse to crack down any company, why you guys always have such "fantasy" to associate China with politics? remember that Tencent is just a entertainment company maybe the intention was truly genuine and wants to protect its customers from online cheaters?



You can hope if you wish. I reckon it goes rather against the "my device, my rules" notion that underpins this entire site (fits rather nicely with "my service, my rules" the companies will in turn use to ban them in turn as well) and most laws in most of the world.

As far as Tencent goes. A) Big business in China is inherently tied to the government. Nobody that does not pay their dues, fork over data and otherwise basically be an arm of it will be allowed to be a big business in China. Tencent is also far more than a simple little entertainment company. Likewise if they were so gentle and benevolent then they would not have sent the police in as much as just continued to ban people, and maybe also code it properly such that cheaters find it hard (modern devices playing an online game have more than enough programming power to make cheats exceptionally difficult if they wanted to).


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## leon315 (Apr 2, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> You can hope if you wish. I reckon it goes rather against the "my device, my rules" notion that underpins this entire site (fits rather nicely with "my service, my rules" the companies will in turn use to ban them in turn as well) and most laws in most of the world.
> 
> As far as Tencent goes. A) Big business in China is inherently tied to the government. Nobody that does not pay their dues, fork over data and otherwise basically be an arm of it will be allowed to be a big business in China. Tencent is also far more than a simple little entertainment company. Likewise if they were so gentle and benevolent then they would not have sent the police in as much as just continued to ban people, and maybe also code it properly such that cheaters find it hard (modern devices playing an online game have more than enough programming power to make cheats exceptionally difficult if they wanted to).


THAT'S NOT a very capitalistic way to resolve the online cheating issues: if you DO criminalize online cheating, just like many other asian countries like SK or japan, yes, they indeed have same laws too, which forbids coding and selling cheats for online games.

IMO such tencent intentions to crack down those pros specialized in selling cheats the only purpose to ruin other people's online experience for profit, served as a *clear message to nationwide cheaters: *stop cheating or cops will visit at ur home and drag u to Gulag hahahaha like good ol fable.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 2, 2021)

leon315 said:


> THAT'S NOT a very capitalistic way to resolve the online cheating issues: if you DO criminalize online cheating, just like many other asian countries like SK or japan, yes, they indeed have same laws too, which forbids coding and selling cheats for online games.
> 
> IMO such tencent intentions to crack down those pros specialized in selling cheats the only purpose to ruin other people's online experience for profit, served as a *clear message to nationwide cheaters: *stop cheating or cops will visit at ur home and drag u to Gulag hahahaha like good ol fable.



I would not particularly view this as a capitalistic approaches or not discussion, though better tech* is usually the answer there as well. This I would view as a personal liberty discussion. Ban all the cheaters you want, sending the filth after them however or getting the courts involved just does not sit right with me.


That said if my messing around with cheats and ROM hacks sees the filth sent to my house I think I would ponder a line from an old favourite song


			
				guns of brixton said:
			
		

> When they kick at your front door how you gonna come? With your hands on your head or on the trigger of your gun?




*I say better tech but at time of launch having the server send a bit of random shared data (probably less than the data needed to send a high score table), and said data being the reference locations for all the bits of data a cheater might use along with location hopping inverted and encrypted/salted data, maybe a few server challenges lots of random noise and the like would not frustrate the efforts of a cheat maker to the point where it is near impossible, especially if said random data is actually closer to daily updates that retool things along with having multiple versions out there. At current computing power and coding styles then slowdown in code is imperceptible with that, and if they coded it vaguely well then nothing really extra to do.


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## leon315 (Apr 2, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> That said if my messing around with cheats and ROM hacks sees the filth sent to my house I think I would ponder a line from an old favourite song


WHY you always messing rom hacking with selling online games cheats? those 2 things are not related and Rom hacking is neither mentioned in the news, perhaps you try to misleading the tempers?


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## FAST6191 (Apr 2, 2021)

leon315 said:


> WHY you always messing rom hacking with selling online games cheats? those 2 things are not related and Rom hacking is neither mentioned in the news, perhaps you try to misleading the tempers?


I don't consider them separately. Both rely on understanding how a game works and manipulating its internals in ways I am sure all the company lawyers would say we would rather you not do that.
If you want to think that maybe using a cheat online is worthy of seeing the full weight of the law come after you, or maybe just if you sell it, vs offline or otherwise fiddling then so it goes.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 3, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> There is a difference between being banned from a service and having the filth tool up and kick down your front door before dragging you in front of a court and having it fine you.


Yes, the latter is better.
There is also a difference between security or police kicking out those who want to disturb a cinema or theater (e.g. Pussy Riot) and their being banned afterwards. The damage would have already been done and the victims don´t get their money or time back. So in both cases violence is better.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 3, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Yes, the latter is better.
> There is also a difference between security or police kicking out those who want to disturb a cinema or theater (e.g. Pussy Riot) and their being banned afterwards. The damage would have already been done and the victims don´t get their money or time back. So in both cases violence is better.



I am not sure how that is analogous.

If they want to have proactive people checking stats, footage replays and the like in addition to passive security measures then good for them (there was a fairly amusing story some years back from xbox live doing such a thing). Might be expensive but hey.

There is still a marked difference between that and sending the law after someone.


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## Deleted User (Apr 3, 2021)

Tencent is like the 50 cent of China, except 80% lesser.


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## Ricken (Apr 4, 2021)

I can't help but think about my younger days where I'd give out hacked mons.  I used to play lots of XYORAS and I'd have two Pokemon named "One sec" and "LemmeDupeIt" or something; then I'd just make a copy and trade off whatever somebody wanted from me.  I knew/know it devalues Pokemon, especially event ones, but they're Pokemon people wouldn't get otherwise and it's definitely made a few people's days.


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## Xzi (Apr 4, 2021)

Ricken said:


> I can't help but think about my younger days where I'd give out hacked mons.  I used to play lots of XYORAS and I'd have two Pokemon named "One sec" and "LemmeDupeIt" or something; then I'd just make a copy and trade off whatever somebody wanted from me.  I knew/know it devalues Pokemon, especially event ones, but they're Pokemon people wouldn't get otherwise and it's definitely made a few people's days.


Eh I wouldn't worry too much about it, Pokemon is primarily a single-player game whereas these guys were busted for selling cheats for online-only games.  I remember going to a Nintendo-sponsored Pokemon tournament for Red/Blue, and almost everybody had three Mews and three Mewtwos in their team, all max level.  This wasn't even _that_ far out from launch, so it was obvious they were cheating, but none of the referees cared.  If I had to guess, modern online battles are equally as rife with cheaters who've done just enough to make their Mons look legit.


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## RedBlueGreen (Apr 4, 2021)

x65943 said:


> How is that illegal? I mean I guess maybe they were committing tax fraud?


Like @FAST6191 said, it's probably because somebody important didn't like it (whether that's a company there or a politics figure). Maybe it's because it might affect a high earning company like Tencent as well, or somebody whose pockets they're lining. I'm using Tencent as an example because they're huge and they're an involved party here. They wouldn't care if these people were just making cheats for games that China or Chinese companies didn't have a stake in, they only took action because Tencent (or a partner) is being affected. They'll just stick them with whatever charges they can even though said laws aren't actually about cheating in a video game. Not a lawyer, but stuff like damaging a service and improper access are more about harmful hacking and other malicious activities that either fully or partially render a sevice inoperable or illegal access (including hacking and stealing information), and were not made with cheating (like aimbots) at a video game in mind. Now actual hacking might fall under improper access or fraud if you were hacking the servers to give yourself V-Bucks or other items that would cost real money.

China as a state is insanely hypocritical. They don't care how their actions and the actions of the population affect others, but they'll bring down the hammer if someone does anything that negatively affects them (whether it's the proper communist government or a notable Chinese business like Tencent), even if they have to trump up charges. Let's not forget about the crap they pulled over the Meng Wanzhou extradition request.

The amount of people who seem fine with a human rights violation because they don't like cheaters in video games is disgusting.


Xzi said:


> Eh I wouldn't worry too much about it, Pokemon is primarily a single-player game whereas these guys were busted for selling cheats for online-only games. I remember going to a Nintendo-sponsored Pokemon tournament for Red/Blue, and almost everybody had three Mews and three Mewtwos in their team, all max level. This wasn't even that far out from launch, so it was obvious they were cheating, but none of the referees cared. If I had to guess, modern online battles are equally as rife with cheaters who've done just enough to make their Mons look legit.


Even the official tournaments have probable hackers, but the Pokémon are appear as legal as far as the games and written rules are concerned. Even Pokémon in an illegal ball (Ray Rizzo's Dream Ball Aegislash in X/Y) were given a pass because it didn't negatively impact the game.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Yes, the latter is better.
> There is also a difference between security or police kicking out those who want to disturb a cinema or theater (e.g. Pussy Riot) and their being banned afterwards.


This isn't what's happened and you know it. These are actual criminal charges based on something that likely isn't prohibited or punishable by law. That's why in cases like this they have to use vaguely associate the "crimes" committed to a law that's not about these crimes and definitely didn't have them in mind when it was written, and it's only happening because it affects Tencent. You know what that would be in another country? Wrongful arrest. There's a reason why people are only sued over cheating in other countries, because it's not a criminal offense.


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## Ricken (Apr 4, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Even the official tournaments have probable hackers, but the Pokémon are appear as legal as far as the games and written rules are concerned. Even Pokémon in an illegal ball (Ray Rizzo's Dream Ball Aegislash in X/Y) were given a pass because it didn't negatively impact the game.


I used to love watching competitive Pokemon back in Gen 6 and I remember somebody making a video about how some guy managed to get a second comp ready Salamence between tourney days with an illegal ball to boot.  Good stuff


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 5, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Let's not forget about the crap they pulled over the Meng Wanzhou extradition request.


So her being a political pawn and in a state of limbo for several years (and perhaps forever) is not a violation of human rights, I take it. Show me a case in which China forbid other countries to trade with e.g. Japan and then requested another country to detain an American in e.g. Vietnam. 



RedBlueGreen said:


> The amount of people who seem fine with a human rights violation because they don't like cheaters in video games is disgusting.


As a guest of a restaurant, cinema (etc) my rights would be violated by Pussy Riots not being physically removed. The same applies for cheaters in online games. They ruin the fun for everyone. The online market in China is booming (with university degrees ranging from programming to gaming event managers) so it is natural they want to act.


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## Deleted User (Apr 5, 2021)

... As far as International hypocrisy goes, you'd have a hard time arguing that the only country in the World to fire Nuclear Warheads controlling the narrative on who is a Nuclear Threat in a hypothetical Nuclear Enrichment Programme is remotely logical.

Similarly, the group of countries annually instigating Wars around the World in the name of Democracy calling countries that have not started any form of Military Invasion since the last World War as threats to the World is equally asinine.

Once we get that pissing contest out of the way, the question returns to, outside of ingrained xenophobia, how are Eastern efforts to trial people who have cheated a Gaming company out of their revenue, especially those that have reached the extent of purchasing multiple Sports Cars, any different than the usual barrage of lawsuits that pass through Western courts for lesser Game manipulations.


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## RedBlueGreen (Apr 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As a guest of a restaurant, cinema (etc) my rights would be violated by Pussy Riots not being physically removed. The same applies for cheaters in online games. They ruin the fun for everyone. The online market in China is booming (with university degrees ranging from programming to gaming event managers) so it is natural they want to act.


Except that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about people being arrested for making game cheats because it affects a Chinese company that makes lots of money who are going to be charged with whatever vague as laws they can use because there probably isn't an actual law against what they're doing, and their having assests seized that likely have nothing to do with said cheats. They're seizing stuff like sports cars and other assets totalling like $40 million that probably weren't all purchased with money from the cheats. In another country this shit would be a wrongful arrest and wouldn't fly.


tomasowa said:


> Once we get that pissing contest out of the way, the question returns to, outside of ingrained xenophobia, how are Eastern efforts to trial people who have cheated a Gaming company out of their revenue, especially those that have reached the extent of purchasing multiple Sports Cars, any different than the usual barrage of lawsuits that pass through Western courts for lesser Game manipulations.


So how exactly are these cheats causing a company to be cheated out of revenue, and what legitimate evidence is there that rhe seized assets were purchased with money from selling the cheats?

This is absolutely the commie government over there arbitrarily charging people who piss off them or their cash cows. The laws they'll be charged with violating likely have nothing to do with video game cheats and were written to keep services from being damaged by malicious activities like hacking (as in a cyber attack), and to stop people from illegal accessing information through data breaches.


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## Deleted User (Apr 5, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> So how exactly are these cheats causing a company to be cheated out of revenue, and what legitimate evidence is there that rhe seized assets were purchased with money from selling the cheats?



Eh; I was hoping for at least a better counter argument.

As simplest as I can put it, we have news reports about an event, recanted by several diverse sources that hold their own integrity at stake with each reporting they do.

I, for one, have no means to instantaneously scan the minds of all living beings on this planet but maybe I'm just an unfortunate minority.
You, on the other hand, might be privy to such powers and are arguing on that fact, based on your brain scan of the true intentions behind the Government cover-up of the secretive and pivotal world of Gaming for the species, at which point I'd implore you to elaborate upon this vast knowledge to the rest of the class ...


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## RedBlueGreen (Apr 5, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> Eh; I was hoping for at least a better counter argument.
> 
> As simplest as I can put it, we have news reports about an event, recanted by several diverse sources that hold their own integrity at stake with each reporting they do.
> 
> ...


Again, there's likely no law that actually forbids what they're doing. This means there's no legitimate reason for them to be arrested for it. They're not damaging Tencent by making cheats for games because it doesn't actually harm the game itself or the company. For somebody whose argument "the news said they did it" you're sure acting smug. You're also the one who claimed their actions are costing Tencent money. Care to provide proof, or will conjecture be all this evening?

Let's not forget its Tencent who worked with the police on this. I haven't heard many stories of Chinese cheaters and hackers who do things affecting Western companies being punished.


tomasowa said:


> how are Eastern efforts to trial people who have cheated a Gaming company out of their revenue, especially those that have reached the extent of purchasing multiple Sports Cars,


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## Deleted User (Apr 5, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Again, there's likely no law that actually forbids what they're doing. This means there's no legitimate reason for them to be arrested for it.



If this is an example of your logic, then I'm unsure how long we can keep a conversation going.



RedBlueGreen said:


> Care to provide proof, or will conjecture be all this evening?



Smug is an interesting way to describe pointing out the obvious.
Hilarious, too, since the whole sum of your arguments are conjecture, the latest example being my quote prior to this.

It is not my role to provide you proof when there's more than enough online; I'm not paid anything to handhold you to read nor search about, what's the word ... Sports Cars.

Anecdotally, contrary to your xenophobic ideal, there are statistically more good people in China than in your country Canada.
Canada has a paltry 38 Million people, roughly the size of a South East Asian Capital City Region.
China has over 1 Billion, so even if both countries have the improbable rates of 100% good Canadians and 4% good Chinese, they'd still have 2 Million more than you, roughly the size of Vancouver.

Now That's What I Call A Smug Canadian.


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## BitMasterPlus (Apr 5, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> If this is an example of your logic, then I'm unsure how long we can keep a conversation going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Scary part is I can believe there are more good Chinese than Canadians. Most Chinese peeps are oppressed and have to hide their good nature from the regime, while Canadians seem to not understand how good they have it and have taken it for granted.


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## Deleted User (Apr 5, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Scary part is I can believe there are more good Chinese than Canadians. Most Chinese peeps are oppressed and have to hide their good nature from the regime, while Canadians seem to not understand how good they have it and have taken it for granted.



As a Eurasian who's visited Beijing and Shanghai on several occasions, I would recommend that you take a trip once in a while, for what the Japanese call Gemba, i.e. On-the-Ground Observation. The reality might surprise you.

There are Governmental no-nos in all the countries I've had the pleasure of visiting, from Asia to Europe to the Middle East; as a Guest we adhere to their House Rules as would anyone visiting their neighbours.

There are some subtleties that one might not pick up on at first, but once you do, then what I'm saying will make more sense.
Similarly, though, American life is different on-the-ground than what people who haven't lived there assume it is.


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## RedBlueGreen (Apr 5, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> If this is an example of your logic, then I'm unsure how long we can keep a conversation going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not the one claiming that they broke the law or wrongfully cheated Temcent out of money, the latter you claimed, so I'm not obligated to prove anything. There is zero concrete evidence they violated any actual existing law right now, so there's no "proof everywhere online" as you claim. And pretty much everything you just said is completely unrelated to the story at hand, and at no point did I imply the population of China is bad as a group. I don't know if you're trolling, immature, or just stupid, but I'm certainly not going to engage you because you obviously can't have a discussion without making fallacious arguments.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 5, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Except that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about people being arrested for making game cheats because it affects a Chinese company that makes lots of money who are going to be charged with whatever vague as laws they can use because there probably isn't an actual law against what they're doing, and their having assests seized that likely have nothing to do with said cheats. They're seizing stuff like sports cars and other assets totalling like $40 million that probably weren't all purchased with money from the cheats. In another country this shit would be a wrongful arrest and wouldn't fly.
> 
> So how exactly are these cheats causing a company to be cheated out of revenue, and what legitimate evidence is there that rhe seized assets were purchased with money from selling the cheats?


It is exactly what we are talking about. If there is a company behind people who disturb cinemas (etc) is even more criminal (I guess we could call them NGOs) and you can be sure there are laws against it. Besides the US (due to the $ being the reserve currency) China is the most capable country in terms of tracking the flow of money.
The gaming companies lose revenue once parts of the majority stops playing games (or buying new ones) because of the cheaters. Try founding a company that targets gbatemp with pop-up ads that cannot be ignored or closed. If a country does not have laws against human scum, it needs to come up with them.


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## Deleted User (Apr 6, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> ...



Normally, I would leave an out for those who reply me here, some way for them to regain some dignity and vent because there's really no fun going for low-hanging fruit.

However, this tangent is dragging on a little longer than necessary.



RedBlueGreen said:


> China as a state is insanely hypocritical. They don't care how their actions and the actions of the population affect others



I know not whether English is not your first language nor if you have a bad case of diarrhoea of the mouth, but either way seek help.
Maybe have an adult read alongside you what it is you're actually writing, so it doesn't sound bigoted and hypocritical when you inevitably try to backtrack.

At least make it worth my time; this is just too easy.
Regardless, I feel bad that anyone has to reply the asininity on display, hence this reply.


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