# Ryukouki Discusses! The Censorship Problem



## Ryukouki (Feb 27, 2014)

​Hey guys, I'm back with another new topic to talk about. As gamers, we see censorship happening all the time in the media. It often distorts our view of reality on a given issue, by preventing the way something was meant to be communicated. In a very recent example, our very own Gahars covered a news story in which _South Park: The Stick of Truth _was being censored for a European release. As the _South Park _series bases itself on satire, it definitely raises eyebrows that it is being suppressed. Let's go a bit deeper into the waters here with this issue, shall we?​​[prebreak]Continue reading[/prebreak]​​Establishing Censorship​Censorship at its root is a means of suppressing the way something was meant to be said. It boils down to a distortion of reality that reflects how social media wants people to see things. Looking at some recent examples, you have, as I mentioned above, _South Park: The Stick of Truth, _a series that builds itself on the satire, being censored; more specifically, the censoring of material pertaining to abortions and probing, with the censored material being covered up in a rather crude manner. At a superficial level, I do see that censoring these things is beneficial to "protect the children" but in this day and age, children are being exposed to social media at very young ages. An age where I was still playing with Legos, I now see children with smartphones. I see children who are too young to be on the internet, participating on these internet communities. In this day and age, is censorship not doing enough?​​To provide another example, let's discuss that new Nintendo 3DS game that everyone's raving about, _Bravely Default. _The audience of Western players raised quizzical looks when it came to light that the title would have certain elements censored out. At a superficial level, the things being blocked out are "cosmetic," such as clothing and the main character's age, but at the same time, it should not even be censored at all. Raising the main character's age to eighteen and making her less scantily clad does not really do much. As far as we gamers and Western players know it, social media has displayed us as party animal type people. We have our society being defined by how social media portrays us. Social media seems to think that fifteen year olds dressing in little clothing is a turn off, so that aspect needed to be censored, and her age brought to the "appropriate level" to conform to the social media "standard." What exactly is wrong with a fifteen year old character that wants to express herself in a certain way?​​

​Inequality in Censorship​When we look at censorship, it definitely is not a surprise that the Western players are the red-headed step child. From Nintendo's attempts to restrict Europe's ability to purchase games that are rated a certain rating in the "after hours" period, or Western media being blotted out to hide unnecessary elements, it just does not sit right with me. Look at Japan and Korea, and their video games are most often much more expressive, and made the way the developers wanted to portray it. I understand that I might be inaccurate here, having only played games that arrive in the West. No doubt that there is in fact censorship that might take place in the Eastern territories.​​On that note, when the West and the Asias receive their games, sometimes they become radically different. The West has things being blotted out, like _Bravely Default _or _South Park, _and the East has a much more expressive game. Even when looking at things like anime, in the West you get certain symbols edited out for more child-friendly objects. Look at the _Yu-Gi-Oh! or Pokémon _series, with the _Yu-Gi-Oh _series being edited out as some of the fantasy elements were thought to be cult-like, and edited out. With _Pokémon_ there were episodes that never aired due to aspects that the media thought that we should not be exposed to. What is the point of giving this treatment to gamers? Yes, I know that there are laws that expressly state that things have to happen in a certain way, but it's removing the whole "freedom of expression bit." And we are supposed to swallow that pill and take it the way it is?​​Does Censorship Really Do Anything?​When I look at the issue, I get that on one hand it is supposed to protect the kids. But on the other hand, it does not do that much good when kids these days are getting engaged with the social media perception at an earlier age. They start noticing these things. When I look at a song that is being bleeped out, if it were me it would just incite more curiosity and a desire to understand things more in context.​​On the other hand, censorship can be justifiable if the material expressly causes harm. In the case of the _Pokémon_ franchise, there was one particular episode that landed hundreds of Japanese children in a hospital due to an animation effect that triggered epilepsy. Following that incident, the episode was basically removed from viewing and a global ban issued to benefit the well-being of viewers.​​So What Exactly Are You Arguing?​*A good portion of us* here have most likely reached the age where things like this may not matter much, and we instead question why censorship needs to exist for us. We can go to a game that's rated M for Mature, and access the website content after faking the birthday. Who has not done that at some point in their life? I'm not trying to say that censorship is completely bad, I merely want to raise my hand and question whether or not this type of stuff is really needed in this day and age, where information can be found instantaneously at the tips of our fingers. At the end of the day, it's hurting us gamers, and it's hurting the right for developers to express themselves freely and create content that was meant to be played and interpreted in some way. People are growing up much faster now, and the times need to change to adapt to that change in growth.​​As usual, if you're just joining me now, what is your stance on censorship as a whole? Is censorship something that is needed? Do you feel that censorship is halting freedom of expression? Can censorship be justifiable, such as the case where it benefits the well-being of viewers? Do you agree that social media may have a substantial effect on censorship and its implementations? How do you feel about the idea of censorship in general? Do you like the idea of someone controlling what you should be able to see? Do you accept or deny the fact that social media is distorting your sense of reality and instilling a false sense of reality upon you? Chime off in the comments below!​​​


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## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 28, 2014)

I like boobies.

/thread

EDIT: Ok, now that my internet is stable let me expand just a tiny bit before I go to work.

I don't think censorship should be a thing with games that made to be rated M and up. Buying a Rated M game should net you Rated M material, not some censored or cut version of a game because publishers are afraid some 8 year old is going to play it. That's like taking a perfectly good Rated R movie, cutting out all the gore and sex scenes and making it Rated PG-13 because you're afraid some 10 year old is gonna watch the Rated R movie. 

The recent Southpark game that was censored in Europe, for example, is doing just that; they're taking a perfectly fine game that warns you about all the explicit content and then they rip some of it out because they don't want some kids to be scarred for life. I mean, first of all, it's a fucking *Southpark game*. You know exactly what you're getting into even if you've never seen an episode of the cartoon! You know it's going to be filled with dick jokes and dead babies and fucking dead babies jokes and whatever else Southpark does. Secondly, any parent who buys their kid a game like that should be slapped across the face with a fucking sawfish. 

And Thirdly, I'll expand on this later after or during work so stay tuned...


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## Framework43 (Feb 28, 2014)

Maybe .... just maybe.... we aren't in the wrong but Japan is just overly sexualizing women when its not needed. 

EDIT: FREE THE BOOBS WE NEED TO TEACH CHILDREN THE BEAUTY OF THE HUMAN BODY


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## GHANMI (Feb 28, 2014)

You forgot Ringabell's costume that was completely deleted from US/PAL versions (anyone checked that one on JP versions using the English option?)

















*insert Neo Armstrong Jet Cannon image here*


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## Ryukouki (Feb 28, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> You forgot Ringabell's costume that was completely deleted from US/PAL versions (anyone checked that one on JP versions using the English option?)
> 
> *insert Neo Armstrong Jet Cannon image here*


 

There's a ton of examples that I've undoubtedly missed.  It's in a lot of games/media out there. This topic isn't supposed to represent them all.


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## GHANMI (Feb 28, 2014)

I know. I just wanted to have an excuse to post those online 
(I love the Tengai Makyou and Ace Attorney series)


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## Ryukouki (Feb 28, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> I know. I just wanted to have an excuse to post those online
> (I love the Tengai Makyou and Ace Attorney series)


 

I'm all for Ace Attorney but God forbid I have no clue on that other title you mentioned.


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## GHANMI (Feb 28, 2014)

It's the equivalent of Earthbound, but set in Japan Jipangu. That screenshot is from the third kingdom, there are two villages which are addicted on mushrooms, and everyone says hilarous stuff. The wiseman that's supposed to teach you the High Heal spell is the one who built those ...interesting statues (the text below one of those is "hardening wood", it's hilarious).
The fourth game (Saturn, PSP) is set in a fictional America where the hero Rizing (whose name is wrote in kanji) fights demons, pop starlets, an immortal monkey who's the mayor of one of the states, Death casually claiming babies souls, cannibal pig women... it outclasses Earthbound in the weirdness department, and by far (doesn't have Itopi's writing, but its humor is top-notch)
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/tengai/tengai2.htm

Oh, on topic, since beggars can't be really choosers, if censorship is the only mean to make a game viable commercially (lower rating) so... I guess that's always better than getting a Japanese copy (everyone should learn Japanese by the way, it opens a whole lot of possibilities and you get to enjoy the game as it was meant to be originally... I actually found the flow of ToP untranslated Japanese opening much better and understandable that the subbed version by some anime group... even if it's a professional localization, something is always lost in translation)
However, if publishers butcher a game as their political correctness indicator goes waaay out of control, when it doesn't even matter to lower the rating, and it conflicts with the artistic vision, I'm against it.


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## Deleted_171835 (Feb 28, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Social media seems to think that fifteen year olds dressing in little clothing is a turn off, so that aspect needed to be censored, and her age brought to the "appropriate level" to conform to the social media "standard." What exactly is wrong with a fifteen year old character that wants to express herself in a certain way?


 
The fact that they're fifteen years old.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 28, 2014)

soulx said:


> The fact that they're fifteen years old.


 

Which can have not so good results. In real life, exploiting a fifteen year old looks bad. I don't see anything wrong with censoring in such cases like that (underage), but generally, censorship does go way too far.


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## Steena (Feb 28, 2014)

Cases in which censoring has been actually good/useful, or has made anything at all better: 0

Cases in which the fault is terrible parenting, with parents blaming their incompetence on the freedom of creation: all of them

That's an easy one for me.


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## liamash3 (Feb 28, 2014)

My thoughts regarding censorship are that it's fine it it's for things which young people (below 10-12) could be exposed to, such as violent murder scenes/gore, sexual images and so on. That said, if censorship hits something that is expected to be watched/used by those of appropriate ages (eg;M and above video games = 12+ people to me) and radically changes the content, I'm against it. Regarding the clothing issue in Bravely Default. for example, it doesn't effect me much besides my guessing the true ages of the characters whenever they get mentioned, but that sort of thing still shouldn't have happened in the game. It was targeted at a mature audience, after all, so censoring shouldn't occur.
I also tend to think kiddies are much less innocent to the "ways of the world". as it were, than adults believe these days. With the easy access of the internet, knowledge about a variety of topics are easily available (heck, a kid could look up "adult" content easily on Wikipedia, for example) and attempts to prevent access aren't likely to succeed unless something like a internet firewall occurs in the providers for that country (doesn't China have something like that?), which can also be bypassed with enough effort (I recall kids at my secondary getting around the internet security which prevented flash games from working, for example, using proxy links...least I think that was it, wasn't really sure how they did it, tbh).
To sum up, censorship depends on what is being censored and to what audience. To a group of people who are expected to be above 15, censoring is...silly and generally pointless if the aim was to remove blood/gore/sexy content from a game, and if a child below the intended age gets access to something like that, it's the parent/guardian or object seller's fault, not the game itself.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 28, 2014)

My thoughts are generally along the lines of "watch whatever you like as long as it not hurting anybody else". Censorship by age I have major problems with as I am not sure what is supposed to magically happen on a otherwise normal day (including variations for leap years), I get the idea of probabilities and such a grouping may afford the least risk for the most enforceability tradeoff (brain development, including risk analysis, still goes on until around 25, see also why car crashes tail off rapidly around then).

Many years ago the house rule was "watch whatever you like, if you do not understand something come have a chat". That works for me.

Observing variations between regions, legislation (real, effective and imagined) and trends in censorship and things that people decide they want censored does intrigue me though, as does the related topic of swearing.

FAST6191, despoiler of "innocence"


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## Gahars (Feb 28, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> What exactly is wrong with a fifteen year old character that wants to express herself in a certain way?


 

I don't want to feel like Chris Hansen is behind my shoulder every time I play, for one.

I'm generally against censorship, but honestly, I don't think Bravely Default is a real example of that. A part of any localization is, well, localizing the work's content; it's not just a 1:1 translation. Changes should be made, whether that's modifying or updating idioms, altering cultural references, refining the language, or, in this case, making extremely minute aesthetic alterations. If the age of the characters served the work, then maybe this would be a different case (like, it'd be pretty silly to try and pass Jodie Foster off as 18+ in Taxi Driver because her youth is an essential aspect of the character). As far as I know, though, it's not the case here.

Japan and The West are two very different markets, and you have to understand what appeals to each and what each is going to tolerate.

I'm against artistic censorship as much as the next guy here, and I can already hear the slippery slope arguments coming, but there's also an issue of practicality here that can't be ignored. This is a business as much as it is an art, and you have to pick your battles. I can hardly blame SE for not drawing the line at scantily-clad underage girls.


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## anhminh (Feb 28, 2014)

I have a question: does game rating somehow affect this?
I hear some people complain about the game sometime being censor during translate because the publisher want to lower the game rating. Is that truth or just a myth?


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## Gahars (Feb 28, 2014)

anhminh said:


> I have a question: does game rating somehow affect this?
> I hear some people complain about the game sometime being censor during translate because the publisher want to lower the game rating. Is that truth or just a myth?


 

This happens all the time in Australia, so it's definitely not a myth.

Different countries have different standards (not to mention entirely different ratings systems), so what constitutes a "Teen" game in one country might be considered "Mature" or "2lewd4u" in another.


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## LEDAHGRIM (Feb 28, 2014)

Censorship is kinda useless in some countries or lands... Here in mexico I see 5 year olds playing
GTA V killing the faq out of everyone on the street (in game of course) and cursing everyone each second...

On PC internet cofees I see 10 or 12 year olds downloading hardcore porn from torrents and
sharing it with friends with USB sticks or in portable HD's...

Magazine posts sell you hentai magazines even if you're a minor and the ID to make sure you're
an adult (18+ age) doesn't matter and only is handy to get some quick cash when political elections
are near (there are people who pay you to vote specific parties).

When my friends get games on PC that have something censored and it's editable they ask me to
remove the censorship or reinserting game content that's taken out from original japanese releases.

So point in case is... Censorship is partially OBSOLETE these days, Anyone with enough brains and
some common sense can bypass most of it's forms and get what they want. If it's games I have seen
people selling their usa or eur copies and importing or downloading the japanese versions.

In in an aspect censorship only causes monetary losses for the gaming industry outside japan depending
on the case and how bad or annoying the censorship is.

"YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU!"
*(to give up your freedom of speech!)*


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## Ryukouki (Feb 28, 2014)

anhminh said:


> I have a question: does game rating somehow affect this?
> I hear some people complain about the game sometime being censor during translate because the publisher want to lower the game rating. Is that truth or just a myth?


 

If I recall Dual Destinies was Teen in Japan but rated Mature in America.


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## vayanui8 (Feb 28, 2014)

In the case of bravely default, the censorship isn't too big of a deal. Its very minimal when you think about it, but it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth. the unfortunate reality is that people do dress that way these days, so changing it is rather ridiculous, especially with the amount of mildly sexual text already present in the game. I really don't see a slight change like the one made affecting the rating at all.

I find the censorship of the fire emblem doc to be a rather entertaining example as well, since they were trying to block out the image, but it ended up looking even worse in the end. kind of goes to show that their censorship is so pointless


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## Ryukouki (Feb 28, 2014)

vayanui8 said:


> In the case of bravely default, the censorship isn't too big of a deal. Its very minimal when you think about it, but it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth. the unfortunate reality is that people do dress that way these days, so changing it is rather ridiculous, especially with the amount of mildly sexual text already present in the game. I really don't see a slight change like the one made affecting the rating at all.
> 
> I find the censorship of the fire emblem doc to be a rather entertaining example as well, since they were trying to block out the image, but it ended up looking even worse in the end. kind of goes to show that their censorship is so pointless


 

Yeah, definitely. I mentioned it's a very superficial issue but it does exactly as you mentioned, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Looking at censorship, it detracts from what it sets out to do; instead of blocking out something, it just calls more attention to it.


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## vayanui8 (Feb 28, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> If I recall Dual Destinies was Teen in Japan but rated Mature in America.


esrb has very different ratings than Japan. some of the shin megami tensei games were rated the equivalent of E in Japan but were rated M in the US.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 28, 2014)

vayanui8 said:


> esrb has very different ratings than Japan. some of the shin megami tensei games were rated the equivalent of E in Japan but were rated M in the US.


 

Oh I know. Throwback to a previous discussion topic if you're interested in that kind of stuff. 

http://gbatemp.net/threads/video-game-ratings-flawed.357122/


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## FAST6191 (Feb 28, 2014)

anhminh said:


> I have a question: does game rating somehow affect this?
> I hear some people complain about the game sometime being censor during translate because the publisher want to lower the game rating. Is that truth or just a myth?


It is far far far more common in TV and film but yeah it happens in games too. Generally it comes in two forms

Actual country law type things. This can be actual laws, effective laws and sales company laws.
Germany bans (actual law, very well enforced and at a very high level) a lot of Nazi related imagery, even if you are killing Nazis. Games will be censored for this. Going by the other thread there is also some further stuff, I do quite often post uncut and cut releases for German games and there have been occasions where a company did a Europe wide release and censored the whole region's release because of such laws.
Australia, as discussed elsewhere, has serious issues with drugs being portrayed. Technically it is supposed to have changed now but before there was no equivalent to an 18 rated film for games, this meant games could not get more than whatever the lower rating was and some games had to be changed to manage this.
The UK has an interesting one from time to time. Games can be refused classification and by extension that means they can not be legally sold in the country. Manhunt 2 is probably the more notable game to have this happen for.
In the US certain companies, including very big vendors like Walmart and gamefly, will not stock either Adults Only (AO) games or in some cases even other higher end ratings. Word is Sony, Nintendo and MS will not allow them on their systems either. For a good example of things getting interesting there see Hot Coffee and San Andreas -- a rather tame sex minigame caused the game to be rerated AO.

The second form seems to be company stuff. It does not happen so much today (other than the AO stuff) but back in the 8 and 16 bit era Nintendo (one video I just watched the first half of) had interesting policies on the matter. It went as far as things like references to religion even (Final Fantasy and the Holy spell being a good example).

Lower ratings are supposed to reach out to a wider audience, can change how you can advertise your game, what sponsors you might have in your game (in game advertising is a thing remember) and more, to this end it could be worth considering if you want more sales for your game.

Removing censorship is a fairly popular activity for ROM hackers, others also like to see what happens when games get a new release. With so much of the SNES library hitting the GBA and DS it produced some interesting examples.


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## anhminh (Feb 28, 2014)

Another question: Is it truth that if the game have high enough rating, it won't need to be censor?
And I mean normal censor, not something relate to cultural like the Nazis example above.


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## trumpet-205 (Feb 28, 2014)

If a game was censored because of minor things, like breast, blood, etc, it is better to leave them alone and simply give a game rating status. Parents need to be hold accountable on what their kids are playing, not the other way around.

if a game was censored because of extremely offensive contents or ability to inflict physical harm (like that Polygon Pokemon episode), it is better to make it illegal to possess per local law.


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## LEDAHGRIM (Feb 28, 2014)

yeah, sadly parents these day don't care about monitoring their own children very much, what with work and
all the other things to worry about like bills and food...

They will just give the kind anything to keep him happy and calm, very little do they know just how much
potential harm they could be doing to their children...

I don'r remember any specific game being forbidden from sale here in mexico, But I do know that the normal
3DS is now forbidden here because the 3D it uses harms the eye, Now only the 2DS is being sold...

On topic:
If have seen my fair share of M rated games here in mexico that are still censored, So I stopped buying the
retail versions from stores and started using services like steam or buying online to get the uncensored
version of any games I'm interested in.

One store even closed around here because nobody was buying games from there since "Censored game aimed
at adult audiences? No thanks...", Essentially people in here switched to stores that either sold the uncensored
version or stores that import the game from other regions on individual demand.


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## Dr1941 (Feb 28, 2014)

Honestly. GBATemp needs to hire an editor desperately. This article has a solid idea, but the way its written makes me want to avoid it. It *could* be great, even though it's communicated sloppily, but the need for an editor is incredibly high. I notice this on many other reported articles and it's never improving. If people here are more worried about the subject than its content, that's another argument. If GBATemp cares about how it's presented in the "realm" of authorial journalism, then there is a strong need for improvement.


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## Black-Ice (Feb 28, 2014)

We in the west are little bitches. Our middle class families will revolt over anything different or offensive to their dry and monotonously simple lifestyles. There's also the issue of those families not wanting to harm the minds of their fragile kids, despite buying them every call of duty game.
Thus, Censorship



Dr1941 said:


> Honestly. GBATemp needs to hire an editor desperately. This article has a solid idea, but the way its written makes me want to avoid it. It *could* be great, even though it's communicated sloppily, but the need for an editor is incredibly high. I notice this on many other reported articles and it's never improving. If people here are more worried about the subject than its content, that's another argument. If GBATemp cares about how it's presented in the "realm" of authorial journalism, then there is a strong need for improvement.


 
I think Ryu and the other new reporters have breathed real fresh air into the forums and the discussions we have on them, I know Ryu in particular spends a lot of time writing his articles to ensure they create insightful discussion while avoiding flamebait.
If you think you can do better, go ahead but don't undermine the work they've been putting in


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## Taleweaver (Feb 28, 2014)

I've said it before and I'll say it again:the main problem is that the rating system isn't enforced. Shop managers never separate the adult games from the non-adult ones, (to my knowledge) shop clerks can't legally check for ID's when someone wants to buy a game and still a large amount of parents underestimate the impact of a mature game. It's been argued a lot, but with one side wanting to ban adult games forever (the Thompson department) and the other one wanting complete liberty (hardcore gamers), the debate is going nowhere fast.

Of course games are being censored. Because we all know that the average COD-player is lower than the age it should be sold to in the first place, the rating system is utterly flawed. It's like having a sign that says "no entry" while the door is wide open and there's red carpet and lights inviting you and everyone else in.

There shouldn't be censorship. Honestly: all we really need is some awareness and shared responsibility from parents and shopkeepers alike. But while that may sound like an easy thing to do, it's actually fucking HARD. I remember that nintendo got quite some flak because they only sold (or even still sell) zombiu after bedtime for children. How about we NOT demonize such actions and accept it as part of our parental responsibility that comes with the fact that zombiu is, in fact, a mature game?


But what bothers me more is the arbitrary case of "what gets censored"? That tells us a lot about our society. And to be honest: I'm not very proud of it. There will always be pedophiles. I don't know what percentage of the population they are, but I seriously doubt it's in the double digits (and my bet is most of them suppress their sexuality in any way they can, but that's a different discussion). In any case: it shouldn't be the reason why virtual underage girls can't pick their own dresses. Here in the west, we like to portray teenagers as being devoid of having any sexual interest in anyone until they're 18 (or 21...whatever the legal age is in your country). And that saddens me. It's like that 'Children of men'-thing: we don't allow children to be children anymore (okay, that's a bit harsh...but we certainly DO restrict them in it).
It's even more creepy when you compare it to violence and bloodshed. Why is that NOT being censored? It's perfectly normal to brainwash people into thinking that USA is the best nation ever created and that Arabs, Russians, Koreans and whomever else with a non-white skin can perfectly be portrayed as being evil. And while I myself on that topic tend to go with the "videogames don't kill people...guns do"-croud, I'm pretty sure that if I created a game where you play as an Iraqi who has to venture into the US to stop their terrorist president because he's about to attack your nation for the unforgiving crime of "having more oil than us", that game would be censored, banned and ridiculed for propaganda instantly.


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## Chaosruler (Feb 28, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> You forgot Ringabell's costume that was completely deleted from US/PAL versions (anyone checked that one on JP versions using the English option?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
the mis pictures looks like ace attorne : 2 pictures ( T&T)


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## Pogolol (Feb 28, 2014)

Well Well,
Guess they wanted a public open Rating, else it would be like Senran Kagura burst  +16 Rating lulz.

Btw here some Sailormoon censorings German vs American Version:









and as good end some Senran Kagura boobies


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## Attila13 (Feb 28, 2014)

If you ask me, my opinion is that censorship is the stupidest thing there is.
I'm talking about South Park here.
Why the hell censor *Mature* content from a *Mature* game intended for *Mature* audiences???
I have no problem with censoring explicit material from games/media that is intended for young audiences, that is completely acceptable and understandable, but for matures or adults?
I will decide for myself what is and what isn't appropriate for me to see/watch/play! Why would those who decided to censor the game think that I or anyone else who is buying the game and are mature enough to understand it, need they censoring?
To protect us, they say? Well fuck them, I need no protection from them, thank you very much!

Shortly said, censorship is a stupid thing and is not needed for stuff that is *INTENDED* for *Mature* and *Adult* audiences!


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## CathyRina (Feb 28, 2014)

I'm not a big fan of censorship because I have to play a game that just isn't how the creator wanted it to be. Imagine Metal Gear with censorship. Kojima's Spirit within these games would be lost almost entirely.
But if people censor only a few things so that the game can be released with a lower age restriction then I'm okay with it.


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## EZ-Megaman (Feb 28, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Does Censorship Really Do Anything?
> 
> When I look at the issue, I get that on one hand it is supposed to protect the kids. But on the other hand, it does not do that much good when kids these days are getting engaged with the social media perception at an earlier age. They start noticing these things. When I look at a song that is being bleeped out, if it were me it would just incite more curiosity and a desire to understand things more in context.


 

This reminded me of a certain movie that kept using bleeps during swears... only for the audience to see someone get their throat ripped out moments later. 

I don't mind censorship in some cases, but I think it's redundant most of the time.


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## calmwaters (Feb 28, 2014)

I live in the United States and can thus express myself however the hell I want to. That's the perks of living in a country where this freedom, among others, is explicitly stated on a piece of paper. But, our people in modern society do not know what that paper says and can therefore only rely on what the government tells them. It is because of this that we are hotly debating who can have guns (for example). That paper gives everyone the right "to keep and bear arms", but lately this right is being sifted away because of legislation. Law abiding citizens are being censored from guns because of the dangers they pose to our society. And then the media only covers stories like the New Haven school shooting to keep people convinced that guns can only be used to kill people.

Now to actually talk about games. Here, go ahead and watch this Guitar Hero advertisement before I continue. Or find a gaming example pertinent to my above statement. Or both.
 
This thing was censored because it was too mature for the people who would play this game. So, it might've been rated Teen, but there was no doubt that it was destined for kids older than 10. You see, kids in America don't play kids games anymore. And since parents don't care what their kids play, the industry takes it upon themselves to restrict the mature content. It might also explain why even Nintendo, despite being called a kids console, is suffering, both in game content and now in finances. I firmly believe that our mature games wouldn't be censored if people younger than 16 didn't play them. But it seems Europe follows America's censorship rules; I cite the South Park example as proof of this. Japan has always been in their bubble; not caring about the rest of the world. (Again, illustrated by Nintendo, the most popular company in Japan.) That might explain why there is actual freedom of expression in Japan. It reminds me of the story behind Vivian in Paper Mario RPG. For those who don't know, Vivian is a man in the Japanese version, despite acting exactly like (s)he does in the American version. Makes you want to play the game, don't it?

In conclusion, I have only this to say: if you're sick of censorship, move to Japan. Westerners are idiots.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 28, 2014)

I had a change of heart, some people said unnecessary censorship never did anything useful.

You are wrong


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## calmwaters (Feb 28, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> I had a change of heart, some people said unnecessary censorship never did anything useful.
> 
> You are wrong



Why not censor the entire video instead of just that word? It's not the word that's the problem; it's the entire song. We clearly know what the song means, despite the bleeps. On a more practical note, please tell me this wasn't aired on Sesame Street; bleeped or not.


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## lampdemon (Feb 28, 2014)

Another case where pirates win and legit customers are screwed. I was planning to eventually get Bravely Default, but I don't support censorship, so maybe I'll pirate it when 3ds rom hacking becomes a thing.


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## SS4 (Feb 28, 2014)

Censorship is a huge topic, i do believe however that the people deciding what to censor have a very skewed view of the world we live in and must wear rose colored glasses all the time or they just live under a rock . . .


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## Gahars (Feb 28, 2014)

I have the feeling that quite a few people here don't even know what censoring is.



calmwaters said:


> Law abiding citizens are being censored from guns


 
Case in point.



calmwaters said:


> *Guitar Hero Commercial*


 
That's not censorship. That's Activision creating two versions of the same ad and deciding to use over over the other. Considering that the "NSFW" version is explicitly described as "Brett Ratner's personal 'director's cut,'" it wasn't ever seriously intended for use anyway.



calmwaters said:


> Again, illustrated by Nintendo, the most popular company in Japan.


 
[Citation Needed]



calmwaters said:


> That might explain why there is actual freedom of expression in Japan. It reminds me of the story behind Vivian in Paper Mario RPG. For those who don't know, Vivian is a man in the Japanese version, despite acting exactly like (s)he does in the American version. Makes you want to play the game, don't it?
> 
> In conclusion, I have only this to say: if you're sick of censorship, move to Japan. Westerners are idiots.


 
Yes, Japan, the country where you can't even show genitalia in pornography, is _totally_ free of censorship. Gotcha.


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## JackSakamoto (Feb 28, 2014)

Is Swapnote destruction considered censorship ?


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## calmwaters (Feb 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I have the feeling that quite a few people here don't even know what censoring is.


Hiding inappropriate content from the general public?


> Case in point.


Mmm... I meant their access to guns is somewhat restricted because of the laws. (Criminals don't have this problem.)


> That's not censorship. That's Activision creating two versions of the same ad and deciding to use one over the other. Considering that the "NSFW" version is explicitly described as "Brett Ratner's personal 'director's cut,'" it wasn't ever seriously intended for use anyway.


Brett Ratner filmed this version and showed it to Activision. They felt it was inappropriate and made him film a separate one where Heidi kept the shirt on.


> [Citation Needed]


http://www.ranker.com/list/top-japanese-game-developers/el-gamer-grande
http://wiiudaily.com/2014/01/nintendo-dominates-japanese-best-selling-games-of-2013-list/
At least I think they're good. Edit: here, check this out. This was published 2 days ago.
http://wiiudaily.com/2014/02/japanese-sales-numbers/ 


> Yes, Japan, the country where you can't even show genitalia in pornography, is _totally_ free of censorship. Gotcha.


 
I like how you added the word "_totally_"; it brings new meaning to the original comment, thus inciting a new conversation. Apparently no place is _totally_ free of censorship; it's just Japan is a bit more understanding than other countries.


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## Gahars (Feb 28, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> Hiding inappropriate content from the general public?


 
[Defining Intensifies]

When I put on underpants, I'm "hiding inappropriate content from the public," but that doesn't make it "censorship."



calmwaters said:


> Brett Ratner filmed this version and showed it to Activision. They felt it was inappropriate and made him film a separate one where Heidi kept the shirt on.


 
I'm calling bullshit. Not only does that not make any sense (film-making or finance wise), but I can't find a single shred of evidence to support the claim. Hell, even Heidi Klum herself said there was only one shoot.

But, hey, let's say for the sake of the argument that your story is right. That's still not censorship. That's Activision deciding that the "NSFW" advertisement doesn't reflect the game and the company in the way they would like and paying the director to create another version more to their liking. I was wrong in saying that the "Personal Director's Cut" wasn't meant to be distributed - it was actually distributed pretty openly by Activision. There was absolutely no suppression here.



calmwaters said:


> http://www.ranker.com/list/top-japanese-game-developers/el-gamer-grande
> http://wiiudaily.com/2014/01/nintendo-dominates-japanese-best-selling-games-of-2013-list/
> At least I think they're good.


 
First of all...
1) "Most popular company in Japan" /= "Top developer" or "Dominates sales charts"
2) Are you seriously trying to use Ranker as a source here?



calmwaters said:


> Apparently no place is _totally_ free of censorship; it's just Japan is a bit more understanding than other countries.


 

Again, we're talking about a country that censors genitalia even in pornographic works. Just because they censor different things doesn't mean they censor less.


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## calmwaters (Feb 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


> [Defining Intensifies]
> 
> When I put on underpants, I'm "hiding inappropriate content from the public," but that doesn't make it "censorship."


Are you sure? If somebody took a picture of that without your underpants on and put it in a book, would that be censored? Or would it just be hiding something inappropriate?


> I'm calling bullshit. Not only does that not make any sense (film-making or finance wise), but I can't find a single shred of evidence to support the claim. Hell, even Heidi Klum herself said there was only one shoot.
> 
> But, hey, let's say for the sake of the argument that your story is right. That's still not censorship. That's Activision deciding that the "NSFW" advertisement doesn't reflect the game and the company in the way they would like and paying the director to create another version more to their liking. I was wrong in saying that the "Personal Director's Cut" wasn't meant to be distributed - it was actually distributed pretty openly by Activision. There was absolutely no suppression here.


But there are two takes from that shoot: one where she takes off her shirt and one where she doesn't. A shoot is where a bunch of people get together and perform a bunch of stuff. Now there can be many takes from it (bloopers come to mind (not the ones in Nintendo games)). What probably happened was Brett shot the director's version and then brought some of the Activision marketers to see it. They didn't like the take and requested he do one without taking her shirt off. But... maybe they didn't want to see the first version go to waste, so they used it... but not as much as they used the other one.


> First of all...
> 1) "Most popular company in Japan" /= "Top developer" or "Dominates sales charts"
> 2) Are you seriously trying to use Ranker as a source here?


You asked for a source, I gave you one. Actually I gave you two more, but whatever. I think something's popularity can be defined by how high it is on a chart. Granted, this is only one chart, but hey: one source - one chart. Plus I think the third one is a more accurate picture.


> Again, we're talking about a country that censors genitalia even in pornographic works. Just because they censor different things doesn't mean they censor less.


 
Well, compared to the rest of the gaming world, how much does Japan censor? I'm not looking for actual statistics, just a rough guess. Besides, why would you want to/need to see genitalia in a game or anywhere? I mean, that's really perverted. And apparently Japan thinks it's offensive enough.


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## Purple_Smart96 (Mar 1, 2014)

Censorship is a cancer that has consumed western society, Any form of censorship should be punishable with at least 10 years prison.


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## RodrigoDavy (Mar 1, 2014)

I know it's not going to be a popular opinion, but unfortunately censorship is a necessary evil... Censorship serve to block morally unethic and inadaquate games, like Neo-nazist game or a game where you succeed by slaving women and children.

Nudity should be avoided when not necessary, mostly because it's indirectly supporting viewing women as sex objects. In this case, I have to say that Japan does really bad in creating unrealist images of women, because afaik not all women have big boobs, big ass and dress half-naked in public like it was completely normal. Many will say I'm exaggerating but think: would you be comfortable if the character you're controlling is a half-naked man? I bet many wouldn't even want to touch the game because of that...

I agree, though, that censorship is many times unjustified. In games where there is an intention to criticize or satirize, there are valid reasons to show something shocking because if you're criticizing something you have to look at the world how it is and not in an idealized point of view.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 1, 2014)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I know it's not going to be a popular opinion, but unfortunately censorship is a necessary evil... Censorship serve to block morally unethic and inadaquate games, like Neo-nazist game or a game where you succeed by slaving women and children.
> 
> Nudity should be avoided when not necessary, mostly because it's indirectly supporting viewing women as sex objects. In this case, I have to say that Japan does really bad in creating unrealist images of women, because afaik not all women have big boobs, big ass and dress half-naked in public like it was completely normal. Many will say I'm exaggerating but think: would you be comfortable if the character you're controlling is a half-naked man? I bet many wouldn't even want to touch the game because of that...
> 
> I agree, though, that censorship is many times unjustified. In games where there is an intention to criticize or satirize, there are valid reasons to show something shocking because if you're criticizing something you have to look at the world how it is and not in an idealized point of view.



Now we could certainly agree that the examples you mention in the first part are horrible, however blocking them would possibly worry certain notions of freedom of speech.

What is necessary nudity?

A half naked man
Never






Happened





Before





Ever





That said the image search for the golden axe picture.... interesting.

On objectification.... such a line of logic strikes me as something close to the "ban it" mentality so beloved of places like The Sun, Fox News and though I do not know for certain it looks like Super Noticia follows form here if you wanted a more local example, rather than try to address the problem. No argument that a lot of the computer game culture is horrible, it was not without reason that I picked fighting type games before there, and maybe at some level a force like that might do some good (prohibition was not great, but it did serve to reduce consumption even after it ended).


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## RodrigoDavy (Mar 1, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> What is necessary nudity?
> A half naked man


It would be when nudity really has a whole in the story, like in LA Noire when you find dead woman naked. The nudity is not used for sexual appeal out of context, it means to shock a little and contributes to the story. A game where the sexier the female armor the stronger is a form of semi-nudity that is way out of context and does not contribute to the story.

When I said half-naked men, I meant men dressed provocativily as trying to seduce the player. In fighting games, their "semi-nudity" has context and is completely justifiable.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 1, 2014)

Hmm.
Can it go too far? Absolutely and probably does more often than it really should. On the other hand games, and all other types of media, generally serve as fantasy/aspirational material and such things are very much a part of that.

The armour rating vs coverage discussion is an interesting one. There is something to be said there but equally I would argue the line above comes back into play.

Now there is something to be said for the differences-- if I cared it could happen that my tshirt appears to be struggling to contain a sack of basketballs with nothing more than time and effort, all the time and effort in the world will probably not grant you larger breasts though (unless you are a man I guess, then it takes time and effort and the buffet table).

"provocatively as trying to seduce the player"... do the image search for golden axe barbarian/ax battler, icon might be the wrong word but he appears to have no small following among those that would find men sexually appealing. Also I guess you are not bi/gay and might have misred cues.

To end I think one of my favourite quotes will do well



			
				Terry Pratchett said:
			
		

> Now, there is a tendency at a point like this to look over one’s shoulder at the cover artist and start going on at length about leather, tightboots and naked blades.
> Words like ‘full’, ‘round’ and even ‘pert’ creep into the narrative, until the writer has to go and have a cold shower and a lie down.
> Which is all rather silly, because any woman setting out to make a living by the sword isn’t about to go around looking like something off the cover of the more advanced kind of lingerie catalogue for the specialized buyer.
> Oh well, all right. The point that must be made is that although Herrena the Henna-Haired Harridan would look quite stunning after a good bath, a heavy-duty manicure, and the pick of the leather racks in Woo Hun Ling’s Oriental Exotica and Martial Aids on Heroes Street, she was currently quite sensibly dressed in light chain mail, soft boots, and a short sword.
> All right, maybe the boots were leather. But not black.


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## Gahars (Mar 1, 2014)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I know it's not going to be a popular opinion, but unfortunately censorship is a necessary evil... Censorship serve to block morally unethic and inadaquate games, like Neo-nazist game or a game where you succeed by slaving women and children.


 
Why does that need to be censored?

I'm no proponent of Neo Nazism or Slavery, but I don't think opinions and viewpoints should be censored just because I personally disagree with them. If people want to spread those messages, that's their right. I can just exercise my right to ignore them.



RodrigoDavy said:


> Nudity should be avoided when not necessary, mostly because it's indirectly supporting viewing women as sex objects. In this case, I have to say that Japan does really bad in creating unrealist images of women, because afaik not all women have big boobs, big ass and dress half-naked in public like it was completely normal. Many will say I'm exaggerating but think: would you be comfortable if the character you're controlling is a half-naked man? I bet many wouldn't even want to touch the game because of that...


 
Honestly, I think it's pretty silly (not to mention kind of condescending) to make that leap. It's sort of like the people who think pornography turns civilized human beings into degenerate savages. People can discern between reality and fantasy. No one expects every woman to be like Emma Stone or Michelle Rodriguez after walking out of a movies, and no one expects women to be like Chun-Li Chunder Thighs or Ivy after playing video games. Shameless pandering can be embarrassing, sure, but it's not going to corrupt society or whatever. It's not like videogames invented "fanservice" anyway.

Also, to coincide with Ryukouki's list, we can't forget one of the most popular protagonists of the last few generations.


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## Dr1941 (Mar 2, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> I think Ryu and the other new reporters have breathed real fresh air into the forums and the discussions we have on them, I know Ryu in particular spends a lot of time writing his articles to ensure they create insightful discussion while avoiding flamebait.
> If you think you can do better, go ahead but don't undermine the work they've been putting in


 

None of what you've said challenges what I've written. Spending a lot of time writing to "create insightful discussion" and "breathing fresh air into the forums and [its] discussions" has nothing to do with the fact that the article is written poorly due to the aforementioned examples. Also, none of it is undermining if it's giving critique on how to make something better. I'm honestly not sure if you chose to use that word simply because it was the first word that popped in, but nothing I've said there undermines his work. Of course he puts a lot of time into the pieces. There wouldn't be any words written down if he hadn't. However, the article isn't cohesive in points, the flow is off, and, again, it lacks succinctness. My profession is editing and I do a lot of editing for a major website and magazine, but I'm not going to flaunt my talents around here while I can easily offer advice to someone who is clearly trying to lay down footwork in the industry. If GBATemp couldn't care less about how their articles look, then have fun with it – do whatever you feel is best. If you care about your articles at least appearing presentable, then all you need is an editor or someone who's knowledgeable in the field to take over every now and again.

Anyway, I don't think the thread is meant for this discussion. If you disagree with me, just send a PM and we can discuss things rationally.


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## Ziko (Mar 2, 2014)

LEDAHGRIM said:


> Censorship is kinda useless in some countries or lands... Here in mexico I see 5 year olds playing
> GTA V killing the faq out of everyone on the street (in game of course) and cursing everyone each second...
> 
> On PC internet cofees I see 10 or 12 year olds downloading hardcore porn from torrents and
> ...


 
It is obsolete in today's world and it really doesn't bother me much anymore because I'm a 90's kid who grew up listening to gangsta rap and the controversy that came with it. I thought as a boy that it was funny when they played sound effects over the profanity but now, it's so corny. Also, I remember some networks wouldn't play the videos for said songs during the daytime hours but often around night or even later where kids or most people wouldn't care to watch them. Now it doesn't matter since the internet to me is more like cable TV 24/7 365 and I can have all access to any and everything uncensored so none of those constraints matter. In a perfect version of the world, censorship wouldn't exist, people could express themselves freely, TV would air uncensored programming (cussing and all), and people would shut the hell up about it. That would be nice but I know that may never happen.


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## Ryukouki (Mar 2, 2014)

Dr1941 said:


> None of what you've said challenges what I've written. Spending a lot of time writing to "create insightful discussion" and "breathing fresh air into the forums and [its] discussions" has nothing to do with the fact that the article is written poorly due to the aforementioned examples. Also, none of it is undermining if it's giving critique on how to make something better. I'm honestly not sure if you chose to use that word simply because it was the first word that popped in, but nothing I've said there undermines his work. Of course he puts a lot of time into the pieces. There wouldn't be any words written down if he hadn't. However, the article isn't cohesive in points, the flow is off, and, again, it lacks succinctness. My profession is editing and I do a lot of editing for a major website and magazine, but I'm not going to flaunt my talents around here while I can easily offer advice to someone who is clearly trying to lay down footwork in the industry. If GBATemp couldn't care less about how their articles look, then have fun with it – do whatever you feel is best. If you care about your articles at least appearing presentable, then all you need is an editor or someone who's knowledgeable in the field to take over every now and again.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think the thread is meant for this discussion. If you disagree with me, just send a PM and we can discuss things rationally.


 

Whoa. Hey there, man. I'm always genuine when I say this, but hey, I know I'm not a perfect writer. I am ALWAYS looking for suggestions as to how I can improve my writing. But look at it from another angle. We as Staff are not paid workers. We're not given money, we're not given benefits, all of the work we do is dependent on the initiative and drive that one has. If you go back to the period before I was hired, there was literally nothing being posted for weeks. Something that got posted would stay on the portal for weeks at a time on the front page.

When I write, it's not to lay groundwork for the industry or anything like that. My work isn't at that point where I can rightly say it as such. And here's the thing. A lot of these issues, I have a much more active voice that sometimes I would like to use, but if I said how I _really _felt, I would have lost this position long ago because it might be considered flame bait. I hate flaming discussions, and I generally wish to avoid doing so. I've always looked for new ways to craft my arguments while still being able to maximize the use of my own voice without having to worry about causing flamebait. You saying that GBAtemp doesn't care about how their articles look is quite false. That kills me hearing you say something like that, because I very much love what I do, and I very much care how my articles would look, and if I could make them better in any way, I would love to hear your input. There's not a ton of us who write editorial related works (in fact it might be just me ) and the way I see it, I would really not like to deprive the site of a healthy discussion if I could help it. And I'm here to stay.



> My profession is editing and I do a lot of editing for a major website and magazine, but I'm not going to flaunt my talents around here while I can easily offer advice to someone who is clearly trying to lay down footwork in the industry. If GBATemp couldn't care less about how their articles look, then have fun with it – do whatever you feel is best. If you care about your articles at least appearing presentable, then all you need is an editor or someone who's knowledgeable in the field to take over every now and again.


 
If your profession is really in editing, I would then humbly ask for your expertise on how to make things better. I'm a guy who loves to write. It gives me a break on things that are even more mundane, like how certain chemicals react when placed in lithium diisopropyl amide or bromine in its molecular form.  All I wanted is to make things happen here as best as I could.  Feel free to send me a PM or something to discuss this in more detail, I'm greatly interested in hearing what you have to say, but please come with proof though that you are as you say who you are though. If you are who you say you are, then by all means, talk with me. I don't bite!  If you can't prove it to me that you are who you say, I will very quickly show you the door so that we don't waste time on this. But honestly, if you think that helping is below you, then I'm afraid that the discussion ends here. All you have to do from now on is click that "Back" button on your browser if you see my name.


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## Sliter (Mar 3, 2014)

Oh great I think I was the only that really care about these things xD
well starting by pokemon: about the episode that caused harm , 4Kids had the power to erase everything written in japanese, and is very well known for making scenes very different for no reaction, I bet they got get done with the Porigon episode and make it with no problem one, maybe the editor feared being harm? lol I'm not sure if japan deleted it for VHS/DVD or just changed the episode to not give problem, but I knew of they doing edits on older episodes to re-air or dvd publish like paint out Jynx as purple and stuffs ...(come on how could someone that Jynx offensive? she look like an stranger mermaid thing not a african x-x)

About the games , there still and I can say by myself: the changes on games make the people dumb! First of all they hide that that was just a "pocket Japan", not a "total new world", even with a lot of reference that its a "pocket version of real world" we still see stupid thing like this, instead of this, and thanks to that even the japanese see that don't care much for the "real world reference" like the old times .. .
Anyway, they keep it , I don't understand why is so important that hide that, a product from japan, made there and everybody know, don't look japanese , changing the name of everyone (now I say by the peoples, not the pokemon, except some not well made references, isn't too bad changing of the pokemon, but, come on! see the "kimono Girls" , they have japanese name son western version ... names that aren't the same of japanese version!!! ARGH ), the name of the money (it was to be just "yen" and then, pokedollar? blergh )
This "in game location" is very important, there are american character on the "japanese part" like Machisu, whis gym sing says " The liighting american", its make much sense that in a total pararel world based on america have american? omg !>>
And the best, now came the XY game sthat are based on France .. what they did? made it look more even french! why is this?


This is just the why I hate the western pokemon XD but these point happen on lots of games, and it surprise that they keep doing it nowadays... we are too much globalized for these stuffs, I really don't understand why nintendo keep wanting to be "one nintendo for each region" instead of, like sony, being one thing worldwide... like these changes on Bravely default .. wasn't this game for adults? making the character "less nude" is really stupid .. maybe it offended someone close minded of the location team...(wasn't the game already in English on the japanese release?)

There are lot of stuffs like removing Tan from the skin of characters (or if they have dark skin, made they white), for me this is too more offensive having to edit it, instead of just keeping :B


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 3, 2014)

One thing I love about living in a country based on freedom is being able to be a complete jack off and just say stupid shit on a forum without any need to be correct.

Ron Paul 2077.


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## Sliter (Mar 3, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Now we could certainly agree that the examples you mention in the first part are horrible, however blocking them would possibly worry certain notions of freedom of speech.
> 
> What is necessary nudity?
> 
> ...



remember that half naked man heroes are made on western XD to look that they live wild intimidate with the muscles and stuffs? idk lol the same with females, the intention(before the fanservice era) was that it call attention of the warriors and they don't fight properly... well this is history XD




Guild McCommunist said:


> One thing I love about living in a country based on freedom is being able to be a complete jack off and just say stupid shit on a forum without any need to be correct.
> 
> Ron Paul 2077.


 

Well if they are free to change the game stuffs, we are free to complain about that since we consume their products and want it soon possible to the original :B


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## Dr1941 (Mar 3, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Whoa. Hey there, man. I'm always genuine when I say this, but hey, I know I'm not a perfect writer. I am ALWAYS looking for suggestions as to how I can improve my writing. But look at it from another angle. We as Staff are not paid workers. We're not given money, we're not given benefits, all of the work we do is dependent on the initiative and drive that one has. If you go back to the period before I was hired, there was literally nothing being posted for weeks. Something that got posted would stay on the portal for weeks at a time on the front page.
> 
> When I write, it's not to lay groundwork for the industry or anything like that. My work isn't at that point where I can rightly say it as such. And here's the thing. A lot of these issues, I have a much more active voice that sometimes I would like to use, but if I said how I _really _felt, I would have lost this position long ago because it might be considered flame bait. I hate flaming discussions, and I generally wish to avoid doing so. I've always looked for new ways to craft my arguments while still being able to maximize the use of my own voice without having to worry about causing flamebait. You saying that GBAtemp doesn't care about how their articles look is quite false. That kills me hearing you say something like that, because I very much love what I do, and I very much care how my articles would look, and if I could make them better in any way, I would love to hear your input. There's not a ton of us who write editorial related works (in fact it might be just me ) and the way I see it, I would really not like to deprive the site of a healthy discussion if I could help it. And I'm here to stay.
> 
> ...


 
I'll send you a PM with a full critiqued examples int he morning, but namely, for a starter, your post here comes off as passive aggressive if nothing else. You say you're welcome to tips, pointers, and help, but you're claiming to only take them from "someone with credentials" and you completely dismiss the entire idea at the thought of someone messaging you without them. That contradicts your quest for writing prowess. You wouldn't be given handheld advice from major players in the "industry" if you aren't at least presentable and absorbing knowledge from your peers. It shows a lot of patience, but more than anything, it puts you in a bad light. PR wise, you can see how that would be bad for you and whatever brand it is you plan on representing. However, I can easily understand how GBATemp has a separate mentality since it isn't viewed as a legitimate source for journalistic news, but rather words relaying a new progression. 

Anyway, I'll get you critiquing your article in the morning as I have to work at 8AM. I'm not going to full disclose where I work, and truthfully, I feel your belittling comment about me needing to or you'll "end the discussion" and "show me the door" plenty rude when someone is offering to help. I'll give you the help you need and let you take it or leave it. It'll be up to you then.


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## McHaggis (Mar 5, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> What *probably* happened was Brett shot the director's version and then brought some of the Activision marketers to see it. They didn't like the take and requested he do one without taking her shirt off.


 
Your argument loses most of its credibility when you use the word "probably" to try and prove someone wrong.  It's _highly unlikely_ that they would have shot the director's version, then had everyone wait around twiddling their thumbs until the marketing guys arrived.  What's common in advertisement directing is along the lines of what you said yourself, shoot many takes, shortlist your favourites and take it from there.  I sincerely doubt that Activision's representatives would need to ask Ratner to do another take keeping the shirt on, since that would be indicative of him not really doing his job properly.  Not once did you provide a link to an interview or something similar that would back up that particular claim.

But I get it, conceding that you might be wrong about something or that you don't fully understand something is hard to do.



RodrigoDavy said:


> When I said half-naked men, I meant men dressed provocativily as trying to seduce the player. In fighting games, their "semi-nudity" has context and is completely justifiable.


FAST6191's screenshots were mostly side-scrollers.  Semi-nudity might have context in a fighting ring, but depicting males fighting in the streets in a banana hammock doesn't really seem any more necessary than women doing the same in a bikini.  Of course, it's not for provocation or seduction; the reason they do it is so you can see the muscle, depicting the strength of the character.


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## calmwaters (Mar 5, 2014)

McHaggis said:


> Your argument loses most of its credibility when you use the word "probably" to try and prove someone wrong. It's _highly unlikely_ that they would have shot the director's version, then had everyone wait around twiddling their thumbs until the marketing guys arrived. What's common in advertisement directing is along the lines of what you said yourself, shoot many takes, shortlist your favourites and take it from there. I sincerely doubt that Activision's representatives would need to ask Ratner to do another take keeping the shirt on, since that would be indicative of him not really doing his job properly. Not once did you provide a link to an interview or something similar that would back up that particular claim.


 
Well, I'm sure you've heard of how movies have director's cuts. There is some stuff that's deemed inappropriate by the MPAA and is taken out so the general public can see it. So then, Activision told Mr. Ratner to shoot a Guitar Hero commercial. Keep it simple: the moment you start telling people how to shoot a movie clip turns you into a dictator. Don't do this, don't do that. Those are not acceptable terms for working and could turn the people filming the video for you away. But as you can tell from either clip, Mr. Ratner filmed a Guitar Hero commercial, which is what the executives wanted. But one of them was offensive, so they had to reshoot it. This is where you can start being a nice dictator; you provide feedback on what you liked/didn't like about it. I don't think it would've been in Activision's best interests if they had followed this model when asking people to film their commercials.


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## McHaggis (Mar 5, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> Well, I'm sure you've heard of how movies have director's cuts. There is some stuff that's deemed inappropriate by the MPAA and is taken out so the general public can see it. So then, Activision told Mr. Ratner to shoot a Guitar Hero commercial. Keep it simple: the moment you start telling people how to shoot a movie clip turns you into a dictator. Don't do this, don't do that. Those are not acceptable terms for working and could turn the people filming the video for you away. But as you can tell from either clip, Mr. Ratner filmed a Guitar Hero commercial, which is what the executives wanted. But one of them was offensive, so they had to reshoot it. This is where you can start being a nice dictator; you provide feedback on what you liked/didn't like about it. I don't think it would've been in Activision's best interests if they had followed this model when asking people to film their commercials.


 
Right.  The problem is that you keep saying Activision _asked_ Ratner to _reshoot_ the commercial after he shot the more "revealing" take, but provide absolutely nothing to back up this unlikely claim.


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## calmwaters (Mar 5, 2014)

McHaggis said:


> Right. The problem is that you keep saying Activision _asked_ Ratner to _reshoot_ the commercial after he shot the more "revealing" take, but provide absolutely nothing to back up this unlikely claim.


 
Should I take the words under your username seriously? I don't think I should; just a thought. I don't work for Activision and I was not one of the executives who visited Mr. Ratner to review the commercial. Besides, if you don't believe me now, what makes you think you'll believe me, even when I give something to substantiate my claim?


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 6, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> Should I take the words under your username seriously? I don't think I should; just a thought. I don't work for Activision and I was not one of the executives who visited Mr. Ratner to review the commercial. Besides, if you don't believe me now, what makes you think you'll believe me, even when I give something to substantiate my claim?


 

You have no linked sources. At least Gahars actually links some.

Please stop, you're just looking silly at this point.


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## calmwaters (Mar 6, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> You have no linked sources. At least Gahars actually links some.
> 
> Please stop, you're just looking silly at this point.


 
Despite my current feelings, I will refrain from any more postings, like you asked. Also, something about your signature...


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## Sakitoshi (Mar 6, 2014)

McHaggis said:


> FAST6191's screenshots were mostly side-scrollers. Semi-nudity might have context in a fighting ring, *but depicting males fighting in the streets in a banana hammock doesn't really seem any more necessary than women doing the same in a bikini. Of course, it's not for provocation or seduction*; the reason they do it is so you can see the muscle, depicting the strength of the character.


 
That's exactly what happened at the beginning before fanservice was a thing. is like when in Metroid you complete the game fast enough to see her "JustinBailey" suit, that was included only to let the players know that Samus was actually a chick. and knowing how was Nintendo at that time they never intended that to be provocative, but the fans find it that way.
to pose a more modern example, the Amazon from Dragon's Crown, she is almost naked and I can't see a fanservice intention(some fan artwork depict her more sexy that the game) even her description explain that she goes lightly clothed only to be fast. I find more sexy the Elf with those thighs, but I'm a lolicon and that must be the reason of that.


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