# A law firm has begun an investigation for a class action lawsuit on Nintendo over Joy-Con drift



## ShadowOne333 (Jul 19, 2019)

@cucholix @ploggy let's settle this once and for all!
Fuck off, Nintendo, and your cheap-ass sticks!
It's finally time for someone to put them in their place.

How does it feel being sued, huh, Nintendo?
Got a taste of the same medicine that Nintendo loves so much.
Hope they get their asses kicked as karma for what they've done to fan projects and the emulation scene.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 19, 2019)

My brain must be fried, at first I thought it was a patent infringement bullshit lawsuit but this is just, well, IDK how I feel


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## Arithmatics (Jul 19, 2019)

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.


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## Xabring (Jul 19, 2019)

Well, I see it happening to Nintendo but not to Xbox........but the fact that Nintendo isn't doing anything about it UNLIKE Microsoft (which is heroic....considering they had the pockets to swallow the hit), is well, understandable, and obviously, the reason why this is happening.


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## gman666 (Jul 19, 2019)

Good... Nintendo's lack of response to something this serious is real shady. This is beyond general wear and tear and they know it. Since I've owned my switch both joycons required joystick replacement.


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## TunaKetchup (Jul 19, 2019)

I am a victim of joycon drift

I support this investigation


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## gameboy (Jul 19, 2019)

i bought the tri-wing screws and just replaced the stick. every controller has joystick issues


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2019)

Well, I'm still having no problems with my launch day joycons, but the majority of my play time is in docked mode, and I might very well be in the minority.  Regardless, I don't expect much to come from this, as the payouts for Nvidia's GTX 970 VRAM fiasco were only about $30 per person.  With a product as (relatively) inexpensive as the joycons, people can look forward to _maybe_ a $10 reimbursement, and that's only if the case wins, and only after a couple years.


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## simbin (Jul 19, 2019)

Can't wait for that check, to help pay 1% the cost of new Joy-Cons.


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## Chary (Jul 19, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Well, I'm still having no problems with my launch day joycons, but the majority of my play time is in docked mode, and I might very well be in the minority.  Regardless, I don't expect much to come from this, as the payouts for Nvidia's GTX 970 VRAM fiasco were only about $30 per person.  With a product as (relatively) inexpensive as the joycons, people can look forward to _maybe_ a $10 reimbursement, and that's only if the case wins, and only after a couple years.


I think rather than get a $1.50 credit, people should be looking for this to get Nintendo's attention and generate enough bad PR for them to change their Joy-Cons, assuming they are actually faulty.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 19, 2019)

Don't companies have QA testing who actually, IDK, test these before they get released? How freaking hard is it to test?


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## Pleng (Jul 19, 2019)

gameboy said:


> every controller has joystick issues



What?


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## Chary (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Don't companies have QA testing who actually, IDK, test these before they get released? How freaking hard is it to test?


Sometimes these things just happen. The DualShock 4 has notably horrendous triggers on the early models, and the first X360's were known to RROD. What matters is that they were fixed, eventually.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 19, 2019)

Chary said:


> Sometimes these things just happen. The DualShock 4 has notably horrendous triggers on the early models, and the first X360's were known to RROD. What matters is that they were fixed, eventually.



True, but still, I don't seem to recall MS or Sony being sued for faulty controllers.


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2019)

Chary said:


> I think rather than get a $1.50 credit, people should be looking for this to get Nintendo's attention and generate enough bad PR for them to change their Joy-Cons, assuming they are actually faulty.


True, and it is about to become a much bigger headache for Nintendo if they aren't using higher quality components for the Switch Lite.  Sticks that quickly develop drift would render the entire unit unusable.


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## Paulsar99 (Jul 19, 2019)

Yeah love everything about my switch except the damn expensive yet cheaply made joycons. One and a half years of owning a switch yet already my second set of drifting joycons and I don't even regularly play with my switch since I'm mostly playing on ps4/steam.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 19, 2019)

This is one reason I use the Pro Controller on all my games.


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## Xabring (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Don't companies have QA testing who actually, IDK, test these before they get released? How freaking hard is it to test?


More like, how munch it Cost?



the_randomizer said:


> This is one reason I use the Pro Controller on all my games.





the_randomizer said:


> This is one reason I use the Pro Controller on all my games.



BOY, fully agree with that.


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## the_randomizer (Jul 19, 2019)

Xabring said:


> More like, how munch it Cost?



I have no idea


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## seseiSeki (Jul 19, 2019)

This is the first time I heard about this "Joy Con Drift" problem. But it seems to be a big thing.
The only issue I experience, is a laggy right Joy Con. Sometimes, especially when playing Mario Kart, my right Joy Con would eat my ZR presses, leaving me unable to drift.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 19, 2019)

Vultures jumping on some nonsense. 

Nintendo replaces faulty joycons, I have yet to hear about drifting sticks out of the box, there is nothing to lawsuit against here.


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## Shiranui-san (Jul 19, 2019)

Hope the lawyers include phantom inputs from Pro Controller D-pad as well.
Nintendo, who recently said that they want to reinvent next-gen controller.....


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## DKB (Jul 19, 2019)

I sold my switch while back. However, I personally never had this issue. But, damn, I've seen a lot talking about this. I'm glad this is being done. But, jesus, this is an _extreme case_ over messed up controllers.


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## MarkDarkness (Jul 19, 2019)

About time. I was fully expecting them to come out with a position about this upon announcement of the new models, but Nintendo without Iwata is just a JOKE.



Clydefrosch said:


> Vultures jumping on some nonsense.
> 
> Nintendo replaces faulty joycons, I have yet to hear about drifting sticks out of the box, there is nothing to lawsuit against here.



False. Most JoyCons start drifting just over a year after use, and then they want 40 fucking dollars to replace the stick. Thieves.


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## MAXLEMPIRA (Jul 19, 2019)

Well... yeah, I had to fix my left Joy-Con, yesterday I bought I new Switch for my nieces, let’s see if it has been solved or if it has the same problem. In meanwhile, I’ll sign this lawsuite.


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## Captain_N (Jul 19, 2019)

game publishers releasing Beta version games as finished products is more destructive then joy-con drift. That law firm should do a class action lawsuit against publishers that release beta-ware are complete...


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## Veho (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> True, but still, I don't seem to recall MS or Sony being sued for faulty controllers.


I don't recall anything related to controllers, but Microsoft did get sued for the RROD epidemic. 

https://gizmodo.com/microsoft-sued-over-xbox-360-rrod-issues-5064742
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Lawsuit,news-2779.html
https://kotaku.com/microsoft-hit-with-class-action-over-rrod-5064213


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## retrofan_k (Jul 19, 2019)

Captain_N said:


> game publishers releasing Beta version games as finished products is more destructive then joy-con drift. That law firm should do a class action lawsuit against publishers that release beta-ware are complete...



Yep, couldn't agree more.  I was a QA tester for 5 years (2000-2005) for a major company and everything had to be tight as possible before consumer release.

Now it's pure lazyness on dev/pubs part and the consumers are the testers.


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## samcambolt270 (Jul 19, 2019)

My joycon started drifting literally a month after I got my switch. I can't afford to buy a new set of joycons, and I would prefer not to have to, considering it's definitely just going to happen again. I'm hoping this lawsuit goes through, but I doubt I still have my receipt to actually prove I bought it.


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## nero99 (Jul 19, 2019)

I must be one of the lucky few. Still have my launch day joycons with no drifting at all


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## notimp (Jul 19, 2019)

Planned obsolescence is at least likely. With the price of replacement joycons, and Nintendo not acting on the issue.

If you play mostly in handheld maybe buy a hori joycon to ease the wear and tare ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Nintendo-Licensed-Version-Switch/dp/B07FSR93MQ/ ) on the left stick.

It has no rumble, and no bluetooth. But it has a proper digipad, a propper stick that doesnt seem to suffer from the issue, and its comparatively cheap. It also lowers the weight of the switch which makes me wish Nintendo would have licensed them a right side Joycon version as well. I use it probably 95% of the time.

Or get into replacing the joysticks yourself if the problem arises - which might be the most cost effective way to combat it.


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## HinaNaru Cutie (Jul 19, 2019)

Chary said:


> View attachment 173491​
> Joy-Con connectivity issues have plagued Nintendo Switch owners since the launch of the console, more than two years ago. Recently, Joy-Con drift has become a topic of interest once more, due to fans vocally expressing their disappointment. With no real solution in sight, it appears that a law firm is stepping in to see if they can make things happen. The law firm, called Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP, is a three-decade old institution that focuses on class action lawsuits. According to CSK&D, they have begun an investigation into a possible class-action lawsuit against Nintendo for selling faulty Joy-Cons that have phantom input and interfere with gaming.
> 
> You can fill out the form in the link below to offer your personal experiences with your Joy-Cons to help give the firm more information to work with. If enough reports come in, then CSK&D will move forward with their lawsuit. Whether this will result in a solution or even make it to court is unclear, but the threat of legal action could perhaps spur Nintendo into coming up with a fix or revision for future Joy-con releases.
> ...



My fucking gosh i am SO glad that they are getting a possible lawsuit for there cruddy ass joycon sticks :/. Seriously, my bestie legit bought me a switch as a gift -new one, and the damn joycon ended up getting a joycon drift out of the blue. -I legit thought that myabe it was me? But, nope.. -_-" apparently this is a constant problem on nintendo switch freaking joycons. Ugh -it's so annoying cause to actually fix this is either; take it apart yourself or buy a new one, and i have had this switch for one year now, and i cannot afford a damn 40$ joycon >:v shits expensive as fck. So, i am just trying to use it, and make it work until i can get money to buy a dang joycon since i cannot fix it myself. 

I would love to fix it, but cannot do so.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jul 19, 2019)

Chary said:


> for them to change their Joy-Cons,



They can't. Trust, it really is for reasons.
With the _*new*_ Switch units, it will be fixed.


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## kumikochan (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> True, but still, I don't seem to recall MS or Sony being sued for faulty controllers.


When did MS had faulty controllers ? I don't remember that at all


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

my joycons are fine and i have a launch day switch lol.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jul 19, 2019)

You can bet I'll be filling that out. My second pair of joycons the right stick drifts now as well, and it does it really badly too. So all my joycons drift except one.
You can bet I'll be filling that out. My second pair of joycons the right stick drifts now as well, and it does it really badly too. So all my joycons drift except one.


Xzi said:


> Well, I'm still having no problems with my launch day joycons, but the majority of my play time is in docked mode, and I might very well be in the minority.  Regardless, I don't expect much to come from this, as the payouts for Nvidia's GTX 970 VRAM fiasco were only about $30 per person.  With a product as (relatively) inexpensive as the joycons, people can look forward to _maybe_ a $10 reimbursement, and that's only if the case wins, and only after a couple years.


I could care less about getting any money out of it. I just want Nintendo to be held responsible for their product which has known issues like that since launch, and still has those issues. I would honestly rather see Nintendo forced to repair a pair of joycons per person even if they're out of warranty.

These are $80/pair controllers, so replacing them is expensive.


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## Pixen (Jul 19, 2019)

I hope we get a 10€ coupon for the eshop. Not because I don't have issues because I don't treat any device like trash. But because I don't treat any device like hot trash.


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## CorpseFlower (Jul 19, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> When did MS had faulty controllers ? I don't remember that at all


Elite controller had a sorta bad launch idk if it is a problem anymore it seems they fixed it. 

I personally like Microsoft controllers other then its bad dpad on 360 but 360 controller from 2011 till work perfectly fine today other than rubber worn down and same for my GC controller from 03.
I feel like Nintendo designers just don't put as much effort anymore. Like the joycons have flat remote kind of design so they can split among 2 people. 
But the switch lite has flat back and it makes no sense it cant be docked and it meant to be held in hand so no effort was made for grip comfort.
I also feel the joystick drift maybe due to internal size of joystick being small so it becomes more fragile.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jul 19, 2019)

Pixen said:


> I hope we get a 10€ coupon for the eshop. Not because I don't have issues because I don't treat any device like trash. But because I don't treat any device like hot trash.


My Switch stays in the case when not in use, and I've never thrown or hit a joycon with any serious force, but I have 3 drifting joycons.


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## regnad (Jul 19, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Well, I'm still having no problems with my launch day joycons, but the majority of my play time is in docked mode, and I might very well be in the minority.  Regardless, I don't expect much to come from this, as the payouts for Nvidia's GTX 970 VRAM fiasco were only about $30 per person.  With a product as (relatively) inexpensive as the joycons, people can look forward to _maybe_ a $10 reimbursement, and that's only if the case wins, and only after a couple years.



That's fine with me. What I want is for Nintendo to be forced to address the issue. I don't care if I never get a dime. I just want the next pair I buy to not drift.

I'm still using the same SNES, Gamecube, and PS1 controllers that came with my systems I bought ages ago with no problems.


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## samcambolt270 (Jul 19, 2019)

CorpseFlower said:


> I also feel the joystick drift maybe due to internal size of joystick being small so it becomes more fragile.


From what I'v seen in teardowns, it's not the size. It's because the sticks are cheaply made and inherently flawed. Its very very easy for the sensor to be damaged to the point that it simply detects movement all the time. Even cheap third party joycons that use the same sized sticks don't end up with drift from what I understand, and they're intentionally made cheap.


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## Meteor7 (Jul 19, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> Vultures jumping on some nonsense.
> 
> Nintendo replaces faulty joycons, I have yet to hear about drifting sticks out of the box, there is nothing to lawsuit against here.


Yeah, for a cool $30 USD, or at least that was the price quoted to me when I called them, which wildly outstrips the cost of ordering a replacement stick yourself.

I had this exact issue render a stick unusable right around the time I was playing Mega Man 11, and more recently, the same issue cropped up on two more sticks. I'd like it if this suit at least brought attention to an issue Nintendo seems completely content ignoring.


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## Rahkeesh (Jul 19, 2019)

Nintendo didn't go all-in on the Switch at first, hedging their bets against another Wii U. Picking up ancient 20 nm tegra x1 chips and the only cheapass analog sticks at that size that were already being made in China. To fix the issue they have to get into the manufacturing of that part instead of relying on the existing flawed one, which is expensiveish and why I'm sure they are hoping they can keep sweeping the issue under the rug.


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## Xabring (Jul 19, 2019)

notimp said:


> Or get into replacing the joysticks yourself if the problem arises - which might be the most cost effective way to combat it.



That's...something not everyone feels skilled or/and comfortable enough to do. But it is indeed cost effective. 10 bucks vs 40 of the whole joy-con...unfortunately, it doesn't solve the problem long term. Probably why the lawsuit is being made, I suspect.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 19, 2019)

I hear about Joy-Con drift all the damn time, but I can't say I've ever experienced it. Does it have to do with how often one uses the Joy-Cons or something?


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## Budsixz (Jul 19, 2019)

Someone on youtube showed that they drift because of a material inside wears down, making a sort of powder that goes everywhere ruining stuff


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## EduAAA (Jul 19, 2019)

I don't get it, if it is a factory defect they have to replace them for free because of the warranty...


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## bandithedoge (Jul 19, 2019)

I've disassembled the Joy-Con and analog stick probably 5 times. And I don't even have my Switch for a year. Though buying it used might be the issue...


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 19, 2019)

Xabring said:


> That's...something not everyone feels skilled or/and comfortable enough to do. But it is indeed cost effective. 10 bucks vs 40 of the whole joy-con...unfortunately, it doesn't solve the problem long term. Probably why the lawsuit is being made, I suspect.



As someone who's in the middle of trying to mod some Joy-Cons with Basstop D-Pad shells right at this moment, it is a pain, especially when you have to either down a bunch of Mountain Dew to stay awake after finishing just disassembling the thing without breaking it (which I fear I did more than once with some of the ribbon cables, though I tend to be somewhat paranoid about handling small electronic devices, _especially _proprietary ones that can have hard-to-impossible to fix issues if you fuck up. Even better when Nintendo announces the totally-not-gba-sp-equivalent Switch refresh that fixes one of the Switch's biggest issues in portable mode and does it in a way that makes the Switch Lite DOA for those of us nerds who are informed about what Nintendo has coming down the pipeline) just so you'll show up for work on time for your 2nd shift retail job, or disassemble it, try to find all of the small size screws you dropped on a floor that isn't plain white, which makes trying to find these things a major PITA until you realize you fucked up hard and probably just wasted $60+ on Joy-Cons that you can't even re-assemble completely now because using regular Phillips-head screwdrivers is apparently so and inefficient that it'll make people just wish there was a Hori Joy-Con that had the functionality of the regular left Joy-Con that's actually important for fighting games and not the few games that use HD Rumble effectively or motion controls in a meaningful way.


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## DaniPoo (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> This is one reason I use the Pro Controller on all my games.



So you're not using your Switch in handheld mode?

Me myself had to go and buy replacement joycons twice and now my girlfriend has got drifting issues with one of her joycons as well...


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## HaloEffect17 (Jul 19, 2019)

Why can't Canadians fill this out? All I see are US states in the drop down menu...


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## Milenko (Jul 19, 2019)

My left one recently started drifting, I've died so many times in doom during the platforming sections from it... They're a bit chunky but I can't wait for these:


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 19, 2019)

pro controller FTW


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## nikeymikey (Jul 19, 2019)

I never knew about this before now, but thinking about it my kids switch has one right joycon that always goes right when no one is touching it. Is this drift?? 

Either way I’m gonna grab some replacement sticks from Amazon and replace the faulty one. By the time this case concludes and if it wins, it could be years.


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## xdarkx (Jul 19, 2019)

I had the drifting issue awhile back, but managed to fix it myself.  Haven't run into any drifting issue since.  Don't know what to feel about this.


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## Eddypikachu (Jul 19, 2019)

I have three pairs of joy cons and two of them have horrible joystick drift, I really only use the third pair of joy cons now but this one too is developing a drift. I have never experienced a Nintendo controller that degrades so easily and quickly than the Joycons do.


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## kumikochan (Jul 19, 2019)

Long story short, it is an outrage that Nintendo raised the prices for their controllers while cutting costs and asking an enormous amount of money for a controller that is cheaply made and as cheaply as it can possible be

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Milenko said:


> My left one recently started drifting, I've died so many times in doom during the platforming sections from it... They're a bit chunky but I can't wait for these:



well if they'll be under 35 euro then i would consider those since it can't be used wireless, has no battery inside it and is missing a ton of features. Pricing it should be around 25 euro's/ dollars but knowing Hori they'll ask around 50 wich is just 2 much for a controller lacking a battery, features and wireless function. EDIT: After seeing the video they're asking 50 euro, what a fucking scam


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

There is very little Nintendo could do about the issue, even if they tried to resolve it. Potentiometers are just not reliable, they're highly susceptible to wear and tear because the carbon races are very soft in order to facilitate smooth operation. They could use races made of harder resin, I suppose, but they all wear down eventually. This weakness of analog stick assemblies isn't exactly news, it hits all controller manufacturers, some more than others. It's one of the reasons why Sony never used pots for their analog triggers _(they use force sensitive resistors)_ and Microsoft switched away from them on the One _(they use Hall effect sensors)_ - the moment they had a feasible alternative, they ditched the failure point. Sadly, the same cannot be done for the sticks.


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## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> There is very little Nintendo could do about the issue, even if they tried to resolve it. Potentiometers are just not reliable, they're highly susceptible to wear and tear because the carbon races are very soft in order to facilitate smooth operation. They could use races made of harder resin, I suppose, but they all wear down eventually. This weakness of analog stick assemblies isn't exactly news, it hits all controller manufacturers, some more than others. It's one of the reasons why Sony never used pots for their analog triggers (they use force sensitive resistors) and Microsoft switched away from them on the One (they use a Hall effect sensor) - the moment they had a feasible alternative, they ditched the failure point. Sadly, the same cannot be done for the sticks.



Thanks for these technical info.

The VITA 2000 is a textbook example of faulty sticks, Nintendo just did the same.
But I see a simple way to manage it: "Software calibration"...*
Just let us edit the dead zone* and BAM, your "not so eternal sitcks" can be used way longer (with a simple default setting to avoid mistakes). 

No stick calibration makes me think of sheer planned obsolesence.


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## Paulsar99 (Jul 19, 2019)

I remember watching this a while back and kinda makes sense the whole joycon drift thing.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Torina said:


> Thanks for these technical info.
> 
> The VITA 2000 is a textbook example of faulty sticks, Nintendo just did the same.
> But I see a simple way to manage it: "Software calibration"...
> ...


Editing the dead zone would not solve the issue. When a carbon trace loses its structural integrity, it doesn't only change its resistance along its length, it also starts "slipping". What I mean by that is that the reading "sticks" to a certain value regardless of the position of the contact along the race - say, you push the stick up, the resistance changes, you release it, the physical stick centers, but the reading doesn't change, or changes very slowly, lagging behind the physical position of the stick. This can be remedied by replacing the faulty component, either the contact or the race, but it can't be avoided - it's normal wear and tear. Changing the dead zone won't solve your problem, the reading is permanently off. In fact, most controllers already automatically calibrate their dead zone as you use them, or at least have a high tolerance for erroneous readings, otherwise they would be extremely inaccurate. This is a handy little website I use to test gamepad inputs whenever I'm fixing controllers - grab any controller you own and I'll bet you it's not centered, even straight out of the factory.

https://html5gamepad.com/


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## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Changing the dead zone won't solve your problem, the reading is permanently off. In fact, most controllers already automatically calibrate their dead zone as you use them, otherwise they would be extremely inaccurate.
> 
> https://html5gamepad.com/



Sure, but I wasn't argueing against this.
Here we have to issues:
- ghost offset (misreading while no input)
- wrong reading (misreading while input)

Calibration would solve the first one. 
Auto calibration exist since dreamcast, maybe even PS1 *hitty dual shocks, but on VITA2000, *it never solved anything*.
Manual calibration of dead zone would give, at least, more control on weariness compensation or faulty firmware.

But you're right, you can't go against ageing, just deal with it. I'm happy with getting old btw


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## MagnesG (Jul 19, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> @cucholix @ploggy let's settle this once and for all!
> Fuck off, Nintendo, and your cheap-ass sticks!
> It's finally time for someone to put them in their place.
> 
> ...


Oh maybe they will after a few years.


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## NoNAND (Jul 19, 2019)

My joycons have been acting up weirdly lately. When i got my switch they used to work flawlessly but after a year went by the drifting thing started happening. It's been bugging me ever since. Here s hoping Nintendo provides us with better joycon revisions in the near future.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Torina said:


> Sure, but I wasn't argueing against this.
> Here we have to issues:
> - ghost offset (misreading while no input)
> - wrong reading (misreading while input)
> ...


More options is more better, I can't argue with that.


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## Pipistrele (Jul 19, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> @cucholix @ploggy let's settle this once and for all!
> Fuck off, Nintendo, and your cheap-ass sticks!
> It's finally time for someone to put them in their place.
> 
> ...


As one and only mister Nintendo, I am upset by your rudeness  No N64 virtual console for you, pesky young lad.


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## Zumoly (Jul 19, 2019)

I think I understand now why Nintendo didn't work hard on the joy con's durability.
To sell more joy cons off course!!


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 19, 2019)

Honestly, all you guys wanted sticks when pads was probably the better option for a thin partially portable system


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> Honestly, all you guys wanted sticks when pads was probably the better option for a thin partially portable system


I would like to see a return of the microswitch stick - it's infinitely more reliable than an analog stick and it can emulate it fairly well by providing 8 directions of movement in a familiar form factor. It's easily one of the highlights of the Neo Geo Pocket and I don't understand why it wasn't used more often in portable consoles. Microswitches are hard to misinterpret in terms of input, it's either a 1 or a 0, and they're very thin, so they're perfect for this application.


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## Duo8 (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> I would like to see a return of the microswitch stick - it's infinitely more reliable than an analog stick and it can emulate it fairly well by providing 8 directions of movement in a familiar form factor. It's easily one of the highlights of the Neo Geo Pocket and I don't understand why it wasn't used more often in portable consoles. Microswitches are hard to misinterpret in terms of input, it's either a 1 or a 0, and they're very thin, so they're perfect for this application.
> 
> View attachment 173503


They're not analog though no?


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Duo8 said:


> They're not analog though no?


No, they're digital 8-directional switches. Quite robust, plenty accurate _(you don't get full 360 degrees of movement, but 8 directions is enough for most applications)_ and very low-profile. Not exactly an analog stick, but if they insist on making devices that are thin to the detriment of the user, they're better. As far as I'm concerned, they could just make the console a little thicker and use a standard analog assembly.


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## tatumanu (Jul 19, 2019)

This is a real issue, and quite a design flaw. Sure Nintendo fixes drifting sticks for free IF your Switch is under warranty. But for example mine started to drift as my warranty expired, so i had to get 3rd party sticks. 

Another problem the flex cable that connect to the SL RL button rail. Its bent on top of the battery and it will break eventually. 

ANOTHER problem, the R button is a micro trigger held to the main board by its solder points, the plastic holding it in place has a little gap meaning with a lot of use or dropping the joy con will break the micro trigger right off!

I love Nintendo and i don't think they are pulling an Apple here but this really has to be addressed in the design of the joy con.


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## sergux (Jul 19, 2019)

i remember the bad feeling when i unboxed the switch, both joycons lost randomly their connection on dock mode and the left joycon drifts.
You got my axe for all the people which have a bad christmas as i had.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

tatumanu said:


> This is a real issue, and quite a design flaw. Sure Nintendo fixes drifting sticks for free IF your Switch is under warranty. But for example mine started to drift as my warranty expired, so i had to get 3rd party sticks.
> 
> Another problem the flex cable that connect to the SL RL button rail. Its bent on top of the battery and it will break eventually.
> 
> ...


The bumper microswitches are mounted exactly the same way as all vertical microswitches are - using two additional pins on each side. The switches on the 360 controller are mounted the same way, it's actually fairly robust. The gap is there to allow for some flexibility - if the switch was mounted too snug, you could accidentally lift a trace. By giving it a little bit of room the microswitch will just bend back a little and, hopefully, spring back into place, but I can see what you mean - there is potential for it bending permanently depending on how ductile the metal is. They could implement a secondary vertical board to mount the microswitch flat, but I don't think it's too offensive.

As for the flex cable, I wouldn't worry about it at all - it's not a moving part, so there is no reason for it to develop a fault unless it's pinched during assembly. Flex cables fail when they're repeatedly flexed back and forth, that's why we see screen failure on clamshell systems like the DS or the 3DS whereas Circle Pad or mic faults are relatively rare unless it's the user who was messing about. Cables in general work harden, they don't disintegrate randomly.


----------



## kuwanger (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> True, but still, I don't seem to recall MS or Sony being sued for faulty controllers.



Microsoft ate a lot of cost to fix RROD in their push to get good PR as they wanted to expand into the video game space.  I'm not sure what Sony's actual response to general issues of overheating for the PS3 or other issues Sony has had, but they're enough of a juggernaut to weather most things (like the Sony rootkit).  Nintendo, though, has generally been rather good with QA to not have a systemic problem with their hardware.  They're not really prepared to eat the cost and may not be able to afford it at that level.

PS - If you can find some news articles about previous Sony issues and their response or lawsuits that followed I'd be interested.  I do know they've had issues in the past, but I have no idea how wide spread they were or if there was enough backlash against it to result in legal action or a company response.  It sounds like this Joy-Con problem is a big issue, though.


----------



## tatumanu (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> The bumper microswitches are mounted exactly the same way as all vertical microswitches are - using two additional pins on each side. The switches on the 360 controller are mounted the same way, it's actually fairly robust. The gap is there to allow for some flexibility - if the switch was mounted too snug, you could accidentally lift a trace. By giving it a little bit of room the microswitch will just bend back a little and, hopefully, spring back into place, but I can see what you mean - there is potential for it bending permanently depending on how ductile the metal is. They could implement a secondary vertical board to mount the microswitch flat, but I don't think it's too offensive.
> 
> As for the flex cable, I wouldn't worry about it at all - it's not a moving part, so there is no reason for it to develop a fault unless it's pinched during assembly. Flex cables fail when they're repeatedly flexed back and forth, that's why we see screen failure on clamshell systems like the DS or the 3DS whereas Circle Pad or mic faults are relatively rare unless it's the user who was messing about. Cables in general work harden, they don't disintegrate randomly.
> 
> View attachment 173508


Thanks for the reply, my R button got bent and snapped off and i noticed that happening to many people online. After reading your reply maybe its a soldering or manufacturing problem and not a design flaw.
As for the flex cable, I had a DS with that problem, but as for the Switch, they bent the flex cable like completely over the battery so the plastic is already distorted and semi broken and with vibrations of the rumble and stuff it starts to get worse. So yeah i'm still convinced it's a design flaw just as the flex cable on the DS was totally a design flaw of the barrel holding the flex and eventually chewing it.


----------



## Phenj (Jul 19, 2019)

As a victim of joycon drift, thank god.


----------



## CoupureElectrique (Jul 19, 2019)

*tries to hide smile*


----------



## Phenj (Jul 19, 2019)

Only in the USA looks like. Useless


----------



## 3DSMaster2019 (Jul 19, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> @cucholix @ploggy let's settle this
> Got a taste of the same medicine that Nintendo loves so much.
> Hope they get their asses kicked as karma for what they've done to fan projects and the emulation scene.



Listen, I get that you're mad but Nintendo is most of the time the influence that inspired you guys to create those things in the first place, without nintendo you wouldn't have them at all.


----------



## YetoJesse (Jul 19, 2019)

This "drift" issue.. lol...

To be fair, I have this on both my PS4 and Switch... and than sometimes it randomly disappears. I always thought it was just dust... 

Miss the time when this "drift" was just me pushing the joystick while the game was loading.


----------



## Dartz150 (Jul 19, 2019)

Ah, finally someone makes noise.
Everyone should look at this: https://imgur.com/gallery/58bBc43

Explains and shows clearly the reason on why joycons have the drift, and shockingly, is something that will happen eventually regardless how you take care of your jc's, or even how many times you get them fixed/replaced, the only fix for Nintendo is to release a Joycon 2.0 with different analog stick hardware.

It is very upsetting that this major issue wasn't addressed before Nintendo released the switch, it was obvious that a problem like this would happen, _or maybe they knew_.

Anyway, I hope this lawsuit has success, I'm sick of companies that are aware of issues that affect it's consumers money and do nothing actually useful to make a real hardware fix.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

tatumanu said:


> Thanks for the reply, my R button got bent and snapped off and i noticed that happening to many people online. After reading your reply maybe its a soldering or manufacturing problem and not a design flaw.
> As for the flex cable, I had a DS with that problem, but as for the Switch, they bent the flex cable like completely over the battery so the plastic is already distorted and semi broken and with vibrations of the rumble and stuff it starts to get worse. So yeah i'm still convinced it's a design flaw just as the flex cable on the DS was totally a design flaw of the barrel holding the flex and eventually chewing it.


Sounds like an assembly error on the flex and some dry joints on the pins or uneven placement of the microswitch, you were quite unlucky. The front anchors should've prevented the switch from bending back, and naturally the flex shouldn't be distorted or melted in any way. On second thought, perhaps running it under the cell and protecting it with a layer of kapton tape would've been a better idea. Better yet, they could just run it on the other side of the board altogether. Something they should definitely consider in future Joycon revisions. In the current revision you could protect it with a bit of tape or felt, that would mitigate the "rubbing" effect of the rumble motor. To be fair though, it's hard to predict those things ahead of time, that's why every brand new console has a lot more DOA and RMA'd units than the future revisions.


----------



## aos10 (Jul 19, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> This is one reason I use the Pro Controller on all my games.


the problem with the pro is the dpad is really bad, i mean holy shit, the Xbox 360 dpad is better then then pro controller dpad.


----------



## spotanjo3 (Jul 19, 2019)

To be honest. Not my problem. that's Nintendo's problem. Since Nintendo don't care about us but their profits money. I hope Nintendo lost!


----------



## Issac (Jul 19, 2019)

Interesting though. My launch day Switch never bent, didn't get scratched in the dock, and my joy-cons work just as well as they did day 1. I must have been very lucky with mine


----------



## chartube12 (Jul 19, 2019)

Microsoft controllers have the same problem. If you’re lucky enough to not have one drift, one of or both bumpers fall off. Yet no one has sued them.

Sony fixes this issue starting with the ps3. DS dead zone auto adjust every time the console is restarted


----------



## Joom (Jul 19, 2019)

retrofan_k said:


> Now it's pure lazyness on dev/pubs part and the consumers are the testers.


Actually, you have consumer demand to blame for this. With the rise of streaming and on-demand services, everyone expects instant gratification, thus resulting in quicker deadlines. Publishers want to meet this demand in order to keep customers satiated like the ravenous fiends that they are. This has unfortunately created the "fuck it, send it and patch later" mentality amongst publishers. Your experience from over a decade ago isn't relevant anymore.


----------



## SushiKing (Jul 19, 2019)

What even is joy-con drift? I must be the only one who doesn't have it...


----------



## Joom (Jul 19, 2019)

chartube12 said:


> Microsoft controllers have the same problem. If you’re lucky enough to not have one drift, one of or both bumpers fall off. Yet no one has sued them.


Except it has to be proven that it's due to faulty hardware knowingly sent out by the manufacturer and not user wear and tear.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, they could just make the console a little thicker and use a standard analog assembly.



Considering your knowledge in this field, what is your opinion regarding the SmachZ configuration ?






The analog stick looks prominent, but the two haptic steam-pad seem robust and well placed. Your feeling ?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Torina said:


> Considering your knowledge in this field, what is your opinion regarding the SmachZ configuration ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My feeling about this Vaporware is that, if they ever actually release the damn thing, it will be about as robust as a normal analog stick assembly known from controllers far and wide - they use the exact same tech. In fact, the ones in the PS4 and the Xbox One are exactly the same, it's a generic, ubiquitous part. The ones in standard controllers probably last a little longer than the Switch ones because the motion is radial, the wiper contact goes around an axis. On the Switch it goes back and forth, like a match against a matchbox, so I imagine it experiences more force, but I'm not sure about that, I'm by no means an expert, I just like to tinker. Kudos for the images @Dartz150, very informative link!

Standard assembly
 
Switch assembly


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> like a match against a matchbox



Clean metaphor, now I understand the issue thanks.
Do you know if the haptic pad of the steam-controller is robust and handy ?


----------



## Joe88 (Jul 19, 2019)

Just over one year and my left one started drifting, not paying nintendo $40, bought the kit for $8 and fixed it myself


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> if they ever actually release the damn thing













Just sayin'


----------



## ROMANREIGNS599 (Jul 19, 2019)

Those who didn’t already buy a Switch would have an advantage when they buy a better Joy Con Switch.

But what about those who already payed for this shit and even live in countries where there aren’t common Nintendo products, I’m one of them..


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Torina said:


> Clean metaphor, now I understand the issue thanks.
> Do you know if the haptic pad of the steam-controller is robust and handy ?


No idea. It's a touchpad, it has no moving parts, so I don't see how it would break. It's essentially the same part as a touchpad on the DS4 or on a laptop, just round. No moving parts means no mechanical faults, only electrical ones, but I'm skeptical regarding how comfortable those pads are in practice. I remember @Veho swearing by it, but I never tried it myself.


----------



## Miyuuki (Jul 19, 2019)

Good thing! I have this drift problem on both my joycons, I had to replace them with fear that soon I get the same drifting problem... and I do take really good care of them to not drop and clean it whenever I can.


----------



## tatumanu (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Sounds like an assembly error on the flex and some dry joints on the pins or uneven placement of the microswitch, you were quite unlucky. The front anchors should've prevented the switch from bending back, and naturally the flex shouldn't be distorted or melted in any way. On second thought, perhaps running it under the cell and protecting it with a layer of kapton tape would've been a better idea. Better yet, they could just run it on the other side of the board altogether. Something they should definitely consider in future Joycon revisions. In the current revision you could protect it with a bit of tape or felt, that would mitigate the "rubbing" effect of the rumble motor. To be fair though, it's hard to predict those things ahead of time, that's why every brand new console has a lot more DOA and RMA'd units than the future revisions.


Exactly! Yeah I'm usually unlucky in the Nintendo handheld department...  but i admit I am mainly a handheld gamer so i do use it heavily + I usually get the first batch of consoles + kids!
I do agree with you, sure I'm frustrated, but you can't predict everything at launch of a product. But Nintendo should act more quickly about this as it's been 2 years now. The R button and flex cable issues are needing some more thought into also besides the bad thumb sticks!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Torina said:


> Just sayin'


After all the fake prototypes and various Youtubers shilling the numerous iterations of the device over the years I can't help but be skeptical until this thing is actually on store shelves, if it's ever mass produced to that extent. They've only just switched APU's _*again* _to a Ryzen, they keep messing with the device.

*EDIT:* Actually, it seems like they switched APU's last year... God, it's been a while since they started building this thing, I lost track of all the announcements.



chartube12 said:


> Microsoft controllers have the same problem. If you’re lucky enough to not have one drift, one of or both bumpers fall off. Yet no one has sued them.
> 
> Sony fixes this issue starting with the ps3. DS dead zone auto adjust every time the console is restarted


I can assure you that the PS3 and PS4 suffer from the same issue, and in addition they also suffer from drift if a resistor on the foil PCB fails. The PlayStation controllers use a resistor as a voltage divider for the shoulder buttons, if it fails, you can experience drift on the stick when pressing them and the reverse, you can experience unintentional button presses when using the stick _(at least that's my theory based on the symptoms, they do use the same supply)_ although this issue is revision-dependent. This particular problem is endemic to the technology used, it's more or less prominent depending on the user, the shape of the assembly and even some factors that are outside of the user's or even Sony's control, like the resin hardness. I can't imagine Xbox One controllers suffering from this problem more than DualShock ones considering the fact that they use the exact same sticks.


----------



## sawao_yama (Jul 19, 2019)

Pixen said:


> I hope we get a 10€ coupon for the eshop. Not because I don't have issues because I don't treat any device like trash. But because I don't treat any device like hot trash.



Not everybody treats their crap like hot trash. Mine started drifting two months into owning them. How did it start? Mario party. So screw off with your entitled bs.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jul 19, 2019)

I am somewhat surprised the nintendo defence force was not out in force on this one.

That said no objections to some company that should know better being taken to task for engineering failures.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2019)

Miyuuki said:


> Good thing! I have this drift problem on both my joycons



Lol
And the SUPER UNLUCKY GAMER award goes to....


----------



## Zeldaplayer67 (Jul 19, 2019)

At this point they deserve this.


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## MasterZoilus (Jul 19, 2019)

ahaha  Can't wait for all those fanboys who gotta get that switch lite, to start running into these problems because its the same mechanism in the lite as it is in the regular switch. This is a very common problem.


----------



## KingVamp (Jul 19, 2019)

So odd that it had to come to this, when they fixed the connection issues pretty quickly.


----------



## Glyptofane (Jul 19, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Well, I'm still having no problems with my launch day joycons, but the majority of my play time is in docked mode, and I might very well be in the minority.  Regardless, I don't expect much to come from this, as the payouts for Nvidia's GTX 970 VRAM fiasco were only about $30 per person.  With a product as (relatively) inexpensive as the joycons, people can look forward to _maybe_ a $10 reimbursement, and that's only if the case wins, and only after a couple years.


Same. I almost always use the Pro Controller which has its own issues. We have two sets of joycon with no problems so far, but really they've barely been used. This does seem to be a ridiculously common problem though.


----------



## Enryx25 (Jul 19, 2019)

I love Nintendo but I fully support this.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 19, 2019)

MasterZoilus said:


> ahaha  Can't wait for all those fanboys who gotta get that switch lite, to start running into these problems because its the same mechanism in the lite as it is in the regular switch. This is a very common problem.



Actually, that's not really sure yet. 
One reason the joycons use this type of stick is cause of the battery taking up very valuable space. 

The lite, even if they enlarged the battery, would have more space for a different stick setup


----------



## Badgerx (Jul 19, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> @cucholix @ploggy let's settle this once and for all!
> Fuck off, Nintendo, and your cheap-ass sticks!
> It's finally time for someone to put them in their place.
> 
> ...



"emulation scene", "karma".
you mean you hope they get payback for not making it easy for attic dwellers to illegally play their games and not getting the money they often deserve?
And cheap ass sticks?

It's clear that you're not a Nintendo fan and highly assuming your an edgy xbox/fortnite minor, because so over the top grumpy and lashing out. You don't seem to know that Nintendo has had the best run of controllers (excluding N64) and that they're still a lot better than the clunky bad xbox controllers.


----------



## Waywatcher (Jul 19, 2019)

Such drama....

I bought my Switch while traveling in the US two years ago. Last month I sent my Joy-Cons to the Nintendo HQ here in Sweden and got them back after about a week, repaired, and with two small packaged of candy. Oh, and a dust cloth as well. Free of charge, of course. I didn't even mind the wait since I have a pro controller...


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## MasterZoilus (Jul 19, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> Actually, that's not really sure yet.
> One reason the joycons use this type of stick is cause of the battery taking up very valuable space.
> 
> The lite, even if they enlarged the battery, would have more space for a different stick setup



it is sure...100%.  And this lawsuit actually doesn't have anything to do with the drift! its completely misleading buuuuut now that we are on the subject.....

I guarantee any amounts of money that they have NOT changed on the lite version....the dimensions of the thumbsticks look exactly the same, even the height, the top rubber pattern is the same and they're not going to spend $$$ on R&D and production on new thumbstick mechanisms that will cut into the large profits of the lite units. since its the same tech and just a less featured stripped down version of the OG switch. ... so yeah no changes, same thumbsticks/mechanisms, you'll see.


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Jul 19, 2019)

Badgerx said:


> "emulation scene", "karma".
> you mean you hope they get payback for not making it easy for attic dwellers to illegally play their games and not getting the money they often deserve?
> And cheap ass sticks?
> 
> It's clear that you're not a Nintendo fan and highly assuming your an edgy xbox/fortnite minor, because so over the top grumpy and lashing out. You don't seem to know that Nintendo has had the best run of controllers (excluding N64) and that they're still a lot better than the clunky bad xbox controllers.


Quite the opposite, kiddo.

Just because Nintendo's analog sticks have been quite decent since after the N64 doesn't mean that they get a free pass just because of previous console runs.

The fact that they fucked up this badly with the Switch and still haven't addressed the situation is a huge redflag. I don't suport their each and every move like other sheep followers, because boy do they fuck up, a lot more recently.

The analog sticks work like it should...
For a couple months. After that, good luck playing anything that requires precision with it. If that doesn't mean cheap construction and poor design of the sticks, I don't know what will.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Waywatcher said:


> Such drama....
> 
> I bought my Switch while traveling in the US two years ago. Last month I sent my Joy-Cons to the Nintendo HQ here in Sweden and got them back after about a week, repaired, and with two small packaged of candy. Oh, and a dust cloth as well. Free of charge, of course. I didn't even mind the wait since I have a pro controller...


Are you going to send them to be serviced the same way in 5 years time? 10? They should be a little sturdier than they are. Just because it's a big engineering challenge doesn't mean they shouldn't try.


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## Waywatcher (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Are you going to send them to be serviced the same way in 5 years time? 10? They should be a little sturdier than they are. Just because it's a big engineering challenge doesn't mean they shouldn't try.



I'll definitely try, but by then I will probably be too busy with the next generation anyway.


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## Teletron1 (Jul 19, 2019)

what took so long for this to happen? my launch Switch has this issue and Big N tried to cover it up by saying it was a software glitch well 2019 and now everyone is starting to complain, well hopefully they just fix the problem or let's keep the fingers crossed they did with the new Switches that are coming

Launch Switch left Joy-Con drift and thumb stick is defective 
2nd pair of Joy-Cons less than 3 months old started drifting  

 has anyone found a reliable company for replacement parts? or is everyone producing parts with issues


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Waywatcher said:


> I'll definitely try, but by then I will probably be too busy with the next generation anyway.


Perhaps I'm biased, but I expect my hardware not to break if I look at it funny. There's a lot of technical hurdles for Nintendo here, I outlined them throughout this thread, but they should address the problem. Do I think they did it on purpose as a planned obsolescence failure mode? No, I don't think that's the case. Is it lawsuit-worthy? No, I think Nintendo gave customers good customer service when it comes to faulty Joycons. Can they fix it? Probably - swapping the resin for a harder formula or bending the wiper leads to a less sharp angle should extend the life cycle of the controllers, perhaps significantly. The problem is that the design is fundamentally flawed - there's just not a lot of "meat" there to hold it together, so even if the joycons stop drifting, they will snap soon enough - the price we pay for low profile components nobody asked for.


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## banjo2 (Jul 19, 2019)

I don't have this issue, but a friend of mine did. I hope they figure this out, I fear the day mine start to drift.


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## boomerang42 (Jul 19, 2019)

They haven't had an analog design so flawed since the N64, but this time the failure happens so much quicker when it goes that it's ridiculous.

I can't see myself ever getting a Switch until they get rid of the drift problem. If they don't ever fix it... I guess I won't ever be getting a Switch. And when Switch first came out I was 100% certain I would be getting one someday.


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## linuxares (Jul 19, 2019)

They aren't sued yet. Also can't they fix this with an extended warrenty?


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

boomerang42 said:


> They haven't had an analog design so flawed since the N64, but this time the failure happens so much quicker when it goes that it's ridiculous.
> 
> I can't see myself ever getting a Switch until they get rid of the drift problem. If they don't ever fix it... I guess I won't ever be getting a Switch. And when Switch first came out I was 100% certain I would be getting one someday.


joycons arent needed, you get a pro controller and never worry about those 2 bastard brothers


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## DeoNaught (Jul 19, 2019)

This isn't about Analog Drifting, all controllers eventually do it. some of my N64 controllers have the same problem.

The problem is how fast they are drifting, I replaced my main stick, then started Hollow knight using the dpad(I really love the joycon dpad), and it some how got progressively worse.

like within thirty hours, it got to the point where I had to replace the joystick before it. 

I really, really hope they make a revision to the joystick, and soon.


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## XDel (Jul 19, 2019)

I have experienced this with classic Xbox and ps2 controllers, as well as 360 controllers, but not on the Switch. I thought Nintendo fixed something.


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## boomerang42 (Jul 19, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> joycons arent needed, you get a pro controller and never worry about those 2 bastard brothers



If I had a Switch I'd be using it as a portable handheld basically exclusively. In that case joycons are all you can use afaik. 'Cause in order to use pro controller you'd have to bring along the controller plus something to prop up the Switch which would make it a whole lot less portable.

Crappy joycons really defeat the portablity of Switch, which is a huge selling point for the console. Nintendo so badly needs to fix that.


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## 3DSMaster2019 (Jul 19, 2019)

[QUOTE="the Xbox 360 dpad is better then then pro controller dpad.[/QUOTE] That's really not true, however the Xbox One, Wii, Wii U, and all nintendo handhelds have better D-Pads


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## guily6669 (Jul 19, 2019)

Why no one did the same back in the Xbox360 days too grrr... All brand new Xbox 360 controllers I bought at least one joystick was always drifting away from day one jeez... never had one without that problem...

Never had that problems on Dreamcast, playstation, Xbox original or Xbox one controllers


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

3DSMaster2019 said:


> > the Xbox 360 dpad is better then then pro controller dpad.
> 
> 
> That's really not true, however the Xbox One, Wii, Wii U, and all nintendo handhelds have better D-Pads


I don't know how someone can say that the 360 d-pad is better unironically, it's notorious for being barely usable. Even the clicky stock Xbox One d-pad is a massive improvement, I kind of like the clickyness of it, it gives good input feedback.


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

boomerang42 said:


> If I had a Switch I'd be using it as a portable handheld basically exclusively. In that case joycons are all you can use afaik. 'Cause in order to use pro controller you'd have to bring along the controller plus something to prop up the Switch which would make it a whole lot less portable.
> 
> Crappy joycons really defeat the portablity of Switch, which is a huge selling point for the console. Nintendo so badly needs to fix that.


there are joycons alternatives without some extras like hd rumble and such i remenber even daemon x machina has some joycons that are totaly diferemt, then you got those hori ones and such.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> there are joycons alternatives without some extras like hd rumble and such i remenber even daemon x machina has some joycons that are totaly diferemt, then you got those hori ones and such.


Every single one of the 3rd party JoyCons are trash that barely function correctly. Some don't even dock, so you can't charge them up with the Switch or accessories designed to charge JoyCons but instead have to use a USB cable. And all of them are extremely low quality. I don't expect the lifetime of them are gonna be any better than the 1st party ones, only difference is they may just fail outright to a degree where they're no longer usable. Even JoyCons with drift are still usable in many games.

3rd party Pro Controllers though, there is one that is extremely close to the 1st party one. The PCB inside is completely different, but the mold for the shell is likely modified from the official one (just has all references to Nintendo removed), it's that similar. And from what I hear, the sticks and buttons on them feel pretty good and the build seems to be of decent quality.
Can't say the same for any of the 3rd party JoyCons I've heard of. The Hori D-pad one is also pretty low quality, although above average for 3rd party JoyCons.

Source: YouTube reviews from a few different people on all of these.


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Every single one of the 3rd party JoyCons are trash that barely function correctly. Some don't even dock, so you can't charge them up with the Switch or accessories designed to charge JoyCons but instead have to use a USB cable. And all of them are extremely low quality. I don't expect the lifetime of them are gonna be any better than the 1st party ones, only difference is they may just fail outright to a degree where they're no longer usable. Even JoyCons with drift are still usable in many games.
> 3rd party Pro Controllers though, there is one that is extremely close to the 1st party one. The PCB inside is completely different, but the mold for the shell is likely modified from the official one (just has all references to Nintendo removed), it's that similar. And from what I hear, the sticks and buttons on them feel pretty good and the build seems to be of decent quality.


i was talking about those joycons that dont have baterys so you cant charge them lol like hori dpad joycon.

ipega grip 





upcoming hori grip





and so on, this ones dont need to charge becuase no baterys so theyd draina bit of switch batery but with the new model coming with better batery than they are probably decent choices, tbh i dont know if ipega one has batery.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Every single one of the 3rd party JoyCons are trash that barely function correctly. Some don't even dock, so you can't charge them up with the Switch or accessories designed to charge JoyCons but instead have to use a USB cable. And all of them are extremely low quality. I don't expect the lifetime of them are gonna be any better than the 1st party ones, only difference is they may just fail outright to a degree where they're no longer usable. Even JoyCons with drift are still usable in many games.
> 
> 3rd party Pro Controllers though, there is one that is extremely close to the 1st party one. The PCB inside is completely different, but the mold for the shell is likely modified from the official one (just has all references to Nintendo removed), it's that similar. And from what I hear, the sticks and buttons on them feel pretty good and the build seems to be of decent quality.
> Can't say the same for any of the 3rd party JoyCons I've heard of. The Hori D-pad one is also pretty low quality, although above average for 3rd party JoyCons.
> ...


I suspect that third-party joycons will have the same problem since they use the same sticks, they're a waste of money.


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## guily6669 (Jul 19, 2019)

By far those are the best for the price:


>



But sadly they also have its own problems which is they only work wirelessly, battery is not amazingly great, has no rumble\motion and the buttons are switched (don't know if they ever fixed it with FW updates if it even supports...), but they totally have console like proper joysticks for a very low price.

I don't own one but ppl that tested it on youtube said it works amazing and also would be a pretty nice addition to my Nvidia Shield Tablet too... And also kinda works like a pro controller while the console is docked too even though looks a bit odd lol.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> i was talking about those joycons that dont have baterys so you cant charge them lol like hori dpad joycon.
> 
> ipega grip
> 
> ...


Ahh, that's a different thing altogether, those clearly have beefier traditional sticks. I thought you meant the pretend-joycons that have the same form factor.


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Ahh, that's a different thing altogether, those clearly have beefier traditional sticks. I thought you meant the pretend-joycons that have the same form factor.


just mean if people are afrai of joycons not work in the future it is always an option


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

Even if they win, we might get like 5 bucks per JoyCon refunded. Not enough to really matter. But I'm certainly not saying no to it.
I think when Sony lost the class action lawsuit over removing OtherOS, they had to pay like $20 to each person with an early PS3 model? That's not a lot, and that was a much more expensive device than the JoyCons are.
Though you could argue that this is more important than that was, as it impairs usage of the JoyCons at all, and therefore is worth more money... Guess we'll see.


pedro702 said:


> i was talking about those joycons that dont have baterys so you cant charge them lol like hori dpad joycon.
> 
> ipega grip
> 
> ...


iPega are known for their gaming accessories, so I guess they're decent.
The problem I see with this is that it makes it completely impossible to fit the Switch into any sort of pouch so you'd have to have the controllers outside the pouch taking up additional space. I really like the portability of the JoyCons, so that's a no go for me.
I already bring a Pro Controller around with me but the great thing about the JoyCons is that they just slot onto the Switch and go right in my pouch so I can take it out and start playing right away, no fiddling around with controllers. That might not sound like a big deal but for a handheld you really want to be able to just take it out and play, as convenience is the main benefit to handhelds, otherwise you could just use a laptop.

If they were to make a custom pouch to fit it, that would change things. Skull & Co's GripCase with the optional pouch is my daily driver and I couldn't imagine playing the Switch without them as they just make it so much more comfortable to use in handheld mode. But if they didn't make a pouch specifically for it, it would just be too much of a hassle and I'd find other options, like silicone grips (which I have a couple of, they are OK but nowhere near as good)

This would basically serve the same purpose as the GripCase (providing more comfortable grips) while also having better, full length sticks, which makes a big difference in accuracy in games like Splatoon 2. If only they made a pouch to fit it.



Foxi4 said:


> I suspect that third-party joycons will have the same problem since they use the same sticks, they're a waste of money.


I have a feeling the 3rd party JoyCons are actually using 3rd party manufactured stick replacements, which are about $2.50 a piece from China/HK. Being 3rd party, I imagine they're worse. You might think "how could they be worse?", but some 3rd party GameCube controllers don't last more than a few hours of playing high intensity Smash until they're useless for anything more than Mario Party.


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

guily6669 said:


> By far those are the best for the price:
> 
> 
> But sadly they also have its own problems which is they only work wirelessly, battery is not amazingly great, has no rumble and the buttons are switched (don't know if they ever fixed it with FW updates if it even supports...), but they totally have console like proper joysticks for a very low price.
> ...


well ori ones arent out yet and i dont think they will have a batery tbh so lets wait for those, i think they advertised it alongside daemon x machina as the perfect joycons for shooting games and whatnot.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I have a feeling the 3rd party JoyCons are actually using 3rd party manufactured stick replacements, which are about $2.50 a piece from China/HK. Being 3rd party, I imagine they're worse. You might think "how could they be worse?", but some 3rd party GameCube controllers don't last more than a few hours of playing high intensity Smash until they're useless for anything more than Mario Party.


To be fair, it's the design that's the problem, not the quality of the part. Who knows, maybe cheap Made in China sticks that use crap materials and fell off the conveyor belt are actually harder than original ones, that's not uncommon if the cheaper material is less precise, but also harder. They could be "unintentionally robust".


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## Rfire (Jul 19, 2019)

As someone that had a left Joy-Con drift fresh out of the box last month - neon yellow - I filled out the form. If they need a plaintiff to sign on in the state of KY I will happily agree to do so. I don't care about the money, Nintendo needs its hand forced.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, it's the design that's the problem, not the quality of the part. Who knows, maybe cheap Made in China sticks that use crap materials and fell off the conveyor belt are actually harder than original ones, that's not uncommon if the cheaper material is less precise, but also harder. They could be "unintentionally robust".


That's true. At the same time though, a lot more R&D goes into a product from a well renowned company like this, so I don't trust a 3rd party noname Chinese manufacturer to do a better job, intentionally or not. I think the main issue is that the JoyCon sticks are extremely low profile, and that limits their options. The iPega is much bulkier so they can fit standard sticks in there, which has its pros and cons.
That said, if the choice was between this and "circle pad" style analogs, I would pick an actual stick any time, even if it needs to be replaced every so often. Never liked the circle pad on the 3DS, and it was awful for Smash. Those things also started breaking down within weeks of Smash 4 releasing, even though there weren't any durability issues with them before.


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## Jayro (Jul 19, 2019)

They might wanna hold off on releasing those newly colored joycons until they're finished being sued off the planet... Otherwise they'll just have to issue the recall and exchange them for a new hardware revision without the drifting issue built in.


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## guily6669 (Jul 19, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> well ori ones arent out yet and i dont think they will have a batery tbh so lets wait for those, i think they advertised it alongside daemon x machina as the perfect joycons for shooting games and whatnot.


The problem is I think that upcoming controllers will cost like the price of 5x Ipega 9083 controllers .


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## Jayro (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> That's true. At the same time though, a lot more R&D goes into a product from a well renowned company like this, so I don't trust a 3rd party noname Chinese manufacturer to do a better job, intentionally or not. I think the main issue is that the JoyCon sticks are extremely low profile, and that limits their options. The iPega is much bulkier so they can fit standard sticks in there, which has its pros and cons.
> That said, if the choice was between this and "circle pad" style analogs, I would pick an actual stick any time, even if it needs to be replaced every so often. Never liked the circle pad on the 3DS, and it was awful for Smash. Those things also started breaking down within weeks of Smash 4 releasing, even though there weren't any durability issues with them before.


The circlepad was being abused by people smashing it like a gorilla, and boiled down to abuse.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

Jayro said:


> The circlepad was being abused by people smashing it like a gorilla, and boiled down to abuse.


Then why did it happen to so many people all around the time Smash 4 released? It looked like people had physically ripped the rubber part off, which doesn't make sense for anyone to do accidentally. Seems to me like the glue they used is just not very strong.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> That's true. At the same time though, a lot more R&D goes into a product from a well renowned company like this, so I don't trust a 3rd party noname Chinese manufacturer to do a better job, intentionally or not. I think the main issue is that the JoyCon sticks are extremely low profile, and that limits their options. The iPega is much bulkier so they can fit standard sticks in there, which has its pros and cons.
> That said, if the choice was between this and "circle pad" style analogs, I would pick an actual stick any time, even if it needs to be replaced every so often. Never liked the circle pad on the 3DS, and it was awful for Smash. Those things also started breaking down within weeks of Smash 4 releasing, even though there weren't any durability issues with them before.


The Circle Pad and the Joycon stick actually share a lot of similarities - you'll notice familiar X/Y wipers on a carbon trace, just like on a Joycon. The wiper assembly seems more robust, but the principle is the same - match and matchbox instead of rotary potentiometers you usually see. This is much more akin to a volume slider than it is to a traditional stick, I'm not surprised both are quick to fail.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> The Circle Pad and the Joycon stick actually share a lot of similarities - you'll notice familiar X/Y wipers on a carbon trace, just like on a Joycon. The wiper assembly seems more robust, but the principle is the same - match and matchbox instead of rotary potentiometers you usually see. This is much more akin to a volume slider than it is to a traditional stick, I'm not surprised both are quick to fail.
> View attachment 173569


The issue with the circle pad was a completely different one though. The circle pads just had their top piece (with the stem) break off or the rubber piece rip off.
The 3DS circle pad was also low profile like the Switch, so it's bound to have limitations. Just not sure how they could outright solve the problem without making the JoyCons thicker. They might be able to make improvements, but ultimately they will likely never be as durable as full size sticks.


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## pedro702 (Jul 19, 2019)

guily6669 said:


> The problem is I think that upcoming controllers will cost like the price of 5x Ipega 9083 controllers .


preety sure hori said it was like 45 or 50$ lol

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> The Circle Pad and the Joycon stick actually share a lot of similarities - you'll notice familiar X/Y wipers on a carbon trace, just like on a Joycon. The wiper assembly seems more robust, but the principle is the same - match and matchbox instead of rotary potentiometers you usually see. This is much more akin to a volume slider than it is to a traditional stick, I'm not surprised both are quick to fail.
> View attachment 173569


my original 3ds and new 3ds have thousands of hours and  my circle pads are all fine lol, i have 999 hours on each pokemon game so you can see how much i used those cricle pads because i dont use dpads


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> The issue with the circle pad was a completely different one though. The circle pads just had their top piece (with the stem) break off or the rubber piece rip off.
> The 3DS circle pad was also low profile like the Switch, so it's bound to have limitations. Just not sure how they could outright solve the problem without making the JoyCons thicker. They might be able to make improvements, but ultimately they will likely never be as durable as full size sticks.


Circle Pad drift is not uncommon, you see cases pop up every now and then, although admittedly the cap is simply less durable than the wipers themselves, so you see it fail long before the internal components do. Nintendo did fix it eventually by hardening the stick material, and the force distribution is a little different in a slider, so they stack up as more reliable, for sure.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Circle Pad drift is not uncommon, you see cases pop up every now and then, although admittedly the cap is simply less durable than the wipers themselves, so you see it fail long before the internal components do. Nintendo did fix it eventually by hardening the stick material, and the force distribution is a little different in a slider, so they stack up as more reliable, for sure.


It certainly doesn't seem as common as it seems on the Switch, I hear reports of it all the time on Switch and don't remember hearing about a single one on the 3DS. Even though I watch repair videos on YouTube where people buy random lots of faulty consoles and repair them, I've never come across one that showed a circle pad with drifting, and I've come across at least 10 Switch ones.

What I have come across though are ones where the circle pad is just permanently registering in one direction. They're not very common, but they happen.


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## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> The issue with the circle pad was a completely different one though. The circle pads just had their top piece (with the stem) break off or the rubber piece rip off.
> The 3DS circle pad was also low profile like the Switch, so it's bound to have limitations. Just not sure how they could outright solve the problem without making the JoyCons thicker. They might be able to make improvements, but ultimately they will likely never be as durable as full size sticks.


The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.

With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.


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## BlastedGuy9905 (Jul 19, 2019)

You know what? Go ahead. I actually wouldn't mind Ninty losing a lawsuit regarding this matter, maybe they'll do something about the motherfucking quality of the overpriced Joy-Cons.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.
> 
> With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.


That is true. And I think some people may just put too much force on the stick while they're playing, which wasn't so much of a problem because it was held in place so that it couldn't move much on the vertical axis.

But the material the pads on the JoyCon sticks are made out of seems to be the main problem. I don't know if the 3DS circle pads used the same material, but it looks like some sort of graphite material and wears out really easily.

On the 3DS the circle pads weren't known to wear out until Smash 4 was released. But on the Switch, they seem to be guaranteed to wear out over time no matter how careful you are. That graphite looking material will wear out, it's just a matter of how rough you are whether it will wear out in a year, or several years. My cousin doesn't seem to be especially rough with the JoyCons when he plays, but he's had his left JoyCon replaced once, and now it's experiencing the same problem again, all in less than 2 years after first getting the Switch.
Mine are still perfectly fine, but I don't play on it that often, and I'm careful with it. I have no doubt it's going to happen to me eventually, though.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> It certainly doesn't seem as common as it seems on the Switch, I hear reports of it all the time on Switch and don't remember hearing about a single one on the 3DS. Even though I watch repair videos on YouTube where people buy random lots of faulty consoles and repair them, I've never come across one that showed a circle pad with drifting, and I've come across at least 10 Switch ones.
> 
> What I have come across though are ones where the circle pad is just permanently registering in one direction. They're not very common, but they happen.


The root cause of both faults is the same - the stick is "sticking" to a value. That is, unless a part of the assembly straight up broke off and no longer moves.  They're definitely less common though, I'll give you that. Sliding the slider back and forth must put less stress on the carbon traces and the wipers than using the stick, which makes sense. Alternatively, they changed the carbon trace material to something softer and the wipers just tear right through it.


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## kumikochan (Jul 19, 2019)

chartube12 said:


> Microsoft controllers have the same problem. If you’re lucky enough to not have one drift, one of or both bumpers fall off. Yet no one has sued them.
> 
> Sony fixes this issue starting with the ps3. DS dead zone auto adjust every time the console is restarted


Microsoft does not, haven't seen a single issue online whatsoever regarding that and if it's widespread then please do appoint me to links regarding that showing it is widespread like it is on the switch


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## Joom (Jul 19, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> Microsoft does not, haven't seen a single issue online whatsoever regarding that and if it's widespread then please do appoint me to links regarding that showing it is widespread like it is on the switch


It's just fanboyism that won't admit to this tablet being a flop, so they make shit up out of denial.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> Microsoft does not, haven't seen a single issue online whatsoever regarding that and if it's widespread then please do appoint me to links regarding that showing it is widespread like it is on the switch


I can assure you that it's also a problem on Microsoft controllers judging by the stack of faulty ones I fixed recently, including a brand-new white Xbox One Elite Model 2. It's an issue endemic to all conventional potentiometers, although admittedly, Joycons are particularly susceptible to it.


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## kumikochan (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> I can assure you that it's also a problem on Microsoft controllers judging by the stack of faulty controllers I fixed recently, including a brand-new Xbox One Elite Model 2 white controller. It's an issue endemic to all conventional potentiometers, although admittedly, Joycons are particularly susceptible to it.


I have like 5 and i work at a recyclage park and 3 are from electronics recyclage bin I took and all 5 work fine and still work perfectly fine. It isn't an issue like it is on the switch. Most controllers you fixed are probably from angry ass children who threw them controllers against a wall out of rage quiiting and so forth


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 19, 2019)

MasterZoilus said:


> it is sure...100%.  And this lawsuit actually doesn't have anything to do with the drift! its completely misleading buuuuut now that we are on the subject.....
> 
> I guarantee any amounts of money that they have NOT changed on the lite version....the dimensions of the thumbsticks look exactly the same, even the height, the top rubber pattern is the same and they're not going to spend $$$ on R&D and production on new thumbstick mechanisms that will cut into the large profits of the lite units. since its the same tech and just a less featured stripped down version of the OG switch. ... so yeah no changes, same thumbsticks/mechanisms, you'll see.




no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> I have like 5 and i work at a recyclage park and 3 are from electronics recyclage bin I took and all 5 work fine and still work perfectly fine. It isn't an issue like it is on the switch. Most controllers you fixed are probably from angry ass children who threw them controllers against a wall out of rage quiiting and so forth


Some, yes. Others were simply faulty straight out of the factory - no external marks of damage, or even extended use. I'm not ragging on Microsoft here either, it's a general problem with this kind of assembly, I doubt they even make the sticks themselves, they just source them. I think I said it earlier in the thread, but sticks in the Xbox One and PS4 controllers are _"jellybean"_ parts, you buy them by the boatload and they're all exactly the same, there's only a few model out there. By a _"stack of controllers"_ I mean a full-on box, not 3 or 4 I randomly found in a bin - I went through around 20 just in recent memory, some fixable, some not. Most were DualShock 4's simply because they're easier to repair, but a couple were Xbox One ones, including the Elite I mentioned. It's good value when the fix is a simple £1 stick and all it takes is a little labour.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 19, 2019)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.
> 
> With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.



i'm still sure that many joycons were worked over pretty hard when you carry it in a backpack in one of them soft shell cases.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.


I'm not sure about that, they seem pretty custom. I'd have to look into it, but that particular assembly looks made to order, and then relentlessly copied. I'd have to check if they patented it to be sure.


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## guily6669 (Jul 19, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> preety sure hori said it was like 45 or 50$ lol
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


The Daemon X Machine Joy-Con controllers at least will probably be beyond expensive...


> The Daemon X Machine Joy-Con launches in Japan this September, with an asking price of roughly $136.



Source from here: https://www.vg247.com/2019/06/14/hori-releasing-chunky-daemon-x-machina-tie-joy-cons/

At that price, no thank you ...

The Ipega are like around 20€ on ebay...


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## The Real Jdbye (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> I can assure you that it's also a problem on Microsoft controllers judging by the stack of faulty controllers I fixed recently, including a brand-new Xbox One Elite Model 2 white controller. It's an issue endemic to all conventional potentiometers, although admittedly, Joycons are particularly susceptible to it.


I've never heard of that, but it makes sense that they would wear out eventually, though I've not experienced anything but N64 controllers wearing out.
Maybe the N64 controllers weren't so bad after all. They wore out quickly, but at least the movement of the parts inside were directly tied to the movement of the axes, so you would never have phantom input.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.
> 
> With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.


Come to think of it, that explanation doesn't explain why the stick positions drift, as in, they move over time but reset to the middle once you move the stick. I still don't quite understand why that occurs.


Clydefrosch said:


> no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.


Actually, most analog sticks used on consoles are custom designed. They all have their own feel, which is unique to that console, and have to be made for certain dimensions to fit within handhelds and similar. Sure, you can get 3rd party ones with a similar feel, but those are clones.


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## shadow1w2 (Jul 19, 2019)

This is part of why Ive been holding out for a switch pro but I am considering the next revision but sadly those might be these bad joycpns. Class action lawsuit or no Id still rather get a regular switch wothout the joycons (or dock) to save money.

Though I wonder if this lawsuit will win.
Nintendo never promised the controllers to last beyond the warrenty or even work at all.
You know the usual excuses.
Though I hope the message gets to Ninty at least in time for the revised switch and new color joycons to get better stick parts.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I've never heard of that, but it makes sense that they would wear out eventually, though I've not experienced anything but N64 controllers wearing out.
> Maybe the N64 controllers weren't so bad after all. They wore out quickly, but at least the movement of the parts inside were directly tied to the movement of the axes, so you would never have phantom input.
> 
> 
> ...


I think you don't hear about it as much on the Xbox One because, in my experience, Microsoft has an excellent returns policy for controllers, at least in the UK. Googling "Xbox One Drift" gives you ample results, that tells me that Microsoft's controllers aren't holy cows, which I already knew anyway from taking them apart. There's a much bigger problem with Xbox One controllers, one that affects most of the faulty ones I've seen, and that's the headphone jack on the new models - it's not soldered to the board, it's a pressure fit sandwiched between two PCB's. Even a mild amount of pressure can dislodge it completely, ruin the pins and make you lose connection, usually permanently until you replace it altogether. I fixed one of them in the past and, try as I may, I couldn't get any contact at all, no matter how I shaped the pins, so in the end I just ripped off the carbon contacts and soldered it directly to the board - fixed instantly. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen because the jack is clearly engineered to fail, it experiences stress each time you take your headset in and out, it should be far more robust.

As to why the sticks center after you move them, it's probably the spring preload moving the wiper to a new spot on the trace that doesn't have a gap in it, or just sudden movement pressing the oxidised wiper harder, causing it to briefly register a new reading. Some people try to clean both with contact cleaner and hope for the best, but the success rate of that is low - it's far less hassle to just install a new stick. Ultimately the way these things work is by utilising the resistance between Point A and Point B - electrons always follow the path of least resistance. If you have gaps in the trace, oxidised or bent contacts or simply dirt in the potentiometer, that path changes, leading to a change in resistance, which in turn gives you an erroneous reading.

Regarding the _"custom"_ nature of the sticks, nah, most of them are bog standard parts. There's nothing special about them, the manufacturer just picks them based on their properties, like the spring tension, or just the availability. They're not particularly unique, see below:

Xbox One Elite board

DualShock 4 board

Switch Pro Controller board

It's the same sticks, probably from the same factory, they probably sit side by side on the conveyor belt. Occasionally they change the colours on the assembly, I can only assume that the factories colour-code them for some reason, but the side pots are basically the same. In fact, they're interchangeable. They wouldn't go through the trouble of redesigning a part that's already on the market unless they wanted to add features to it - that's expensive!


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## SlasherGamer21 (Jul 19, 2019)

gameboy said:


> i bought the tri-wing screws and just replaced the stick. every controller has joystick issues



That's just an opinion. I have never...not even once had a problem with my joycons.


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## chrisrlink (Jul 19, 2019)

just signed up for the class action


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## Badgerx (Jul 19, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Quite the opposite, kiddo.
> 
> Just because Nintendo's analog sticks have been quite decent since after the N64 doesn't mean that they get a free pass just because of previous console runs.
> 
> ...



I was born with a NES at home, raised with a GB. Since the Wii, I haven't been as invested in Nintendo. During the Wii U, I have said many times that Nintendo was dying. Said it a lot. However, even though there are almost no console exclusive good games for me on it and having been strongly against even getting the console, sales and my experience say it's not bad. I guessed it would be a lot worse.

For a portable machine, an advanced tablet, it's overall reliable. Like always, it can take some abuse.
Batteries are good, controllers do take some getting used to and still confuse me every time I think of how anyone would play with just one of them but they're okay too as long is it's within a meters range of the console.

The only problem I have is 1 of the joy cons sometimes sliding off, probably because it wasn't done as it should by someone. After a year, joystick is still doing good.

So, the problems I do have with Nintendo are more their choices regarding games. Like, why the fuck add cloud, isabella or bayonetta to smash in stead of Mega Man X or Zero, Majora, maskable young Link or since they don't care about size Hollow Knight? Why add "voice acting" to a zelda game and pick such emotionless, dull, horrible voices? Why ruin a good formula, that has been working for well over 25 years? Why bring out a switch lite, just like with GBA and DS? 

Anyway, yes. The controllers do feel cheap. And they cost a lot. Just like every other controller on the market right now. But I don't have a problem so far. Haven't heard anyone who does either. Nintendo will probably respond, next year. And lets be honest, Nintendo controllers and good aiming? Those never really went together that well without auto lock.


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## AkitoTheHedgy (Jul 19, 2019)

Even though I hate Joy-Con Drifting, it shouldn't be taken THIS FAR.


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## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Jul 19, 2019)

My joycons and pro controller just randomly input buttons on the home menu
I would join the lawsuit but i'm in the uk so i cant


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## FAST6191 (Jul 19, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> it experiences stress each time you take your headset in and out, it should be far more robust.



If they start going after people for poor mechanical design of things like that then the electronics industry will probably implode... I have lost track of how many times poorly thought out laptop charger ports, USB ports, headphone jacks and more have caused problems in things. Ask any mechanically inclined person if they think a bit of lead free solder onto a thin layer of copper which in turn is bonded with epoxy to fibreglass weave, and then subjecting that to maybe 5:1 in your disadvantage lever loads.
On the other hand you reminded me earlier of the glory that is microswitches so I don't think we are talking right now.

That said I am curious now if I could make a retrofit kit for this to use a more robust positional sensor instead. Hopefully it is a voltage out rather than resistance or relative resistance measured as programmable selectable loads are not fun to play with.

On a different note for E3 one year before the shows (think it was the same year they got all excited about "asymmetric gaming" that never came) Microsoft had a little filler piece on the testing their controllers go through during R&D and such. I have never been able to find it since but the machines they had and the lengths they went to were quite impressive. 
I should also say on 360 dpads if you (you being the reader of this comment) ever get a chance to test the rotatable dpad that came out later in the 360 lifetime then do so.

Edit


AkitoTheHedgy said:


> Even though I hate Joy-Con Drifting, it shouldn't be taken THIS FAR.


So company makes a defective product, one with considerable numbers of failures, making its product unworkable upon failure and drags its feet about fixing it, denying it is an issue on their end and so forth. That is pretty much the exact scenario class action suits are designed for.


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## chrisrlink (Jul 19, 2019)

AkitoTheHedgy said:


> Even though I hate Joy-Con Drifting, it shouldn't be taken THIS FAR.


sure it is cause thats how big corporations  work, you don't give a shit about the consumer until your sued just like your employees thats what it took for sony on the removal of other OS on the PS3


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## Foxi4 (Jul 19, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> If they start going after people for poor mechanical design of things like that then the electronics industry will probably implode... I have lost track of how many times poorly thought out laptop charger ports, USB ports, headphone jacks and more have caused problems in things. Ask any mechanically inclined person if they think a bit of lead free solder onto a thin layer of copper which in turn is bonded with epoxy to fibreglass weave, and then subjecting that to maybe 5:1 in your disadvantage lever loads.
> On the other hand you reminded me earlier of the glory that is microswitches so I don't think we are talking right now.
> 
> That said I am curious now if I could make a retrofit kit for this to use a more robust positional sensor instead. Hopefully it is a voltage out rather than resistance or relative resistance measured as programmable selectable loads are not fun to play with.
> ...


Not sure how it's designed on the Switch, but if other consoles are anything to go by, it's probably the voltage - I imagine it's easier to measure with a microcontroller. As for the mechanical design of the XBO jack, fair point, but I generally like my components to be affixed to the board as opposed to floating between two boards on hopes, dreams and fairy dust. Not a spot of solder on the connector, they're relying entirely on the tension of the fasteners and a plastic pin to keep it in place. It's... bad.


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## comput3rus3r (Jul 19, 2019)

Chary said:


> View attachment 173491​
> Joy-Con connectivity issues have plagued Nintendo Switch owners since the launch of the console, more than two years ago. Recently, Joy-Con drift has become a topic of interest once more, due to fans vocally expressing their disappointment. With no real solution in sight, it appears that a law firm is stepping in to see if they can make things happen. The law firm, called Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP, is a three-decade old institution that focuses on class action lawsuits. According to CSK&D, they have begun an investigation into a possible class-action lawsuit against Nintendo for selling faulty Joy-Cons that have phantom input and interfere with gaming.
> 
> You can fill out the form in the link below to offer your personal experiences with your Joy-Cons to help give the firm more information to work with. If enough reports come in, then CSK&D will move forward with their lawsuit. Whether this will result in a solution or even make it to court is unclear, but the threat of legal action could perhaps spur Nintendo into coming up with a fix or revision for future Joy-con releases.
> ...


I tried to fill out the form but it gives an error.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


getting this error when filling it out...

Have tried multiple times. Has anybody actually filled it out?


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## Adran_Marit (Jul 19, 2019)

My issue with the joycon isn't the sticks but rather half the inputs not working on the left joycon in SP mode (read SL and SR buttons)


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## HarveyHouston (Jul 19, 2019)

What?!? It's not fixed yet? I was under the impression that it was. Seems like somebody's just blowing a lot of hot air over nothing then.


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## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 20, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> The root cause of both faults is the same - the stick is "sticking" to a value. That is, unless a part of the assembly straight up broke off and no longer moves.  They're definitely less common though, I'll give you that. Sliding the slider back and forth must put less stress on the carbon traces and the wipers than using the stick, which makes sense. Alternatively, they changed the carbon trace material to something softer and the wipers just tear right through it.


The other issue is that Nintendo used super cheap and malleable metal for the wipers that LOVES to break off and leave deposits on the resistive PCB pads. The analog drift is almost always caused by the wipers deforming or leaving deposits. Anyone who has taken one apart can tell you that it is a wonder that these things even work.

Here is what the inside looks like (link to an Instructable):

https://www.instructables.com/id/Nintendo-Joycon-Drift-Fix-Not-Software-Related/


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## DarkCoffe64 (Jul 20, 2019)

Haven't played much with the switch, since it was a friend's, but the sticks did feel really flimsy when playing various games.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2019)

HarvHouHacker said:


> What?!? It's not fixed yet? I was under the impression that it was. Seems like somebody's just blowing a lot of hot air over nothing then.


Even if it was fixed in new batches their actions with regards to what are happily dubbed items not fit for purpose still allow for a lawsuit to be considered.


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## comput3rus3r (Jul 20, 2019)

let me know if anybody actually files since I haven't been able to.


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## bowser (Jul 20, 2019)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.
> 
> With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.





The Real Jdbye said:


> ...
> 
> But the material the pads on the JoyCon sticks are made out of seems to be the main problem. I don't know if the 3DS circle pads used the same material, but it looks like some sort of graphite material and wears out really easily.
> 
> ...





Foxi4 said:


> The root cause of both faults is the same - the stick is "sticking" to a value. That is, unless a part of the assembly straight up broke off and no longer moves.  They're definitely less common though, I'll give you that. Sliding the slider back and forth must put less stress on the carbon traces and the wipers than using the stick, which makes sense. Alternatively, they changed the carbon trace material to something softer and the wipers just tear right through it.



I have personally fixed my joy-cons by taking the joysticks apart. The problem is because of very fine dust covering the carbon traces and messes up the resistance readings. After cleaning off the dust with alcohol on a Q-tip they were A-ok. This is not a case of the sliders "eating up" the traces.

Now as to how the dust got in there in the first place, I'm not sure. It can be either from the external environment OR it can actually be ground up plastic from the internal components of the joystick. It was white and very fine like talcum powder and the internal pieces are white.



Spoiler


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## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 20, 2019)

bowser said:


> I have personally fixed my joy-cons by taking the joysticks apart. The problem is because of very fine dust covering the carbon traces and messes up the resistance readings. After cleaning off the dust with alcohol on a Q-tip they were A-ok. This is not a case of the sliders "eating up" the traces.
> 
> Now as to how the dust got in there in the first place, I'm not sure. It can be either from the external environment OR it can actually be ground up plastic from the internal components of the joystick. It was white and very fine like talcum powder and the internal pieces are white.
> 
> ...


It looks like it could have been the white plastic sliders themselves grinding against the black plastic enclosure, which would explain the small black and white spots. Either way, the Joycons could have been made MUCH better than they are currently given the retail price.

Hell, the knockoffs analog sticks available on eBay are only $2 to $6 and function nearly as well, meaning it probably costs less than a dollar for Nintendo to make.

I wonder if we could cover the white slider in some form of noninvasive lubricant or coating that would prevent/reduce the friction between the slider and casing? Also, could we electroplate the slider wipers to make them less prone to degrading?


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## bowser (Jul 20, 2019)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> *It looks like it could have been the white plastic sliders themselves grinding against the black plastic enclosure*, which would explain the small black and white spots. Either way, the Joycons could have been made MUCH better than they are currently given the retail price.
> 
> Hell, the knockoffs analog sticks available on eBay are only $2 to $6 and function nearly as well, meaning it probably costs less than a dollar for Nintendo to make.
> 
> I wonder if we could cover the white slider in some form of noninvasive lubricant or coating that would prevent/reduce the friction between the slider and casing? Also, could we electroplate the slider wipers to make them less prone to degrading?



Good point. It can also be from the ball and socket joint pieces that support the stick. Perhaps if they were made from a harder material that will solve it. The price for a set of joy-cons is daylight robbery at the moment. They are extremely overpriced.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2019)

bowser said:


> I have personally fixed my joy-cons by taking the joysticks apart. The problem is because of very fine dust covering the carbon traces and messes up the resistance readings. After cleaning off the dust with alcohol on a Q-tip they were A-ok. This is not a case of the sliders "eating up" the traces.
> 
> Now as to how the dust got in there in the first place, I'm not sure. It can be either from the external environment OR it can actually be ground up plastic from the internal components of the joystick. It was white and very fine like talcum powder and the internal pieces are white.
> 
> ...


Having not looked into it I can't say but I would say be careful making such definitive claims based on a sample size of 1. Similarly if we are talking about grit/wear products getting embedded in carbon acting in a mechanical role we have this little thing called brushed motors.


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## raxadian (Jul 20, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> @cucholix @ploggy let's settle this once and for all!
> Fuck off, Nintendo, and your cheap-ass sticks!
> It's finally time for someone to put them in their place.
> 
> ...



The fact the sticks are almost as cheapy made as if they were illegal clones while costing so damm much is really unfair. 

I like the Switch but not the Switch controllers.


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## bowser (Jul 20, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Having not looked into it I can't say but I would say be careful making such definitive claims based on a sample size of 1. Similarly if we are talking about grit/wear products getting embedded in carbon acting in a mechanical role we have this little thing called brushed motors.



I suppose, but some people have had luck blowing compressed air into the stick and temporarily fixing it for a few days/weeks before the problem recurs. I would say the dust was moved around before settling back onto the contacts because of the moving parts. I'm not saying it proves my claim but it gives it some credibility.

The joy-cons operate with a very thin layer of carbon having a tiny footprint which makes them super sensitive. I don't know much about brushed motors but do they operate in similar circumstances? I imagine they have bigger parts and are less sensitive to dust?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2019)

bowser said:


> I suppose, but some people have had luck blowing compressed air into the stick and temporarily fixing it for a few days/weeks before the problem recurs. I would say the dust was moved around before settling back onto the contacts because of the moving parts. I'm not saying it proves my claim but it gives it some credibility.
> 
> The joy-cons operate with a very thin layer of carbon having a tiny footprint which makes them super sensitive. I don't know much about brushed motors but do they operate in similar circumstances? I imagine they have bigger parts and are less sensitive to dust?


It was not a lack of credibility or viability of that failure mode as much as claiming it is the only one/likely not another.

As for brushed motors. Yeah you have two or more blocks of carbon (sometimes impregnated with other materials) that are held in by springs to the spinning bar (called a commutator) of usually copper and wear down as the motor turns. Grit getting in and things falling off and getting bound up in it is probably second only to the brushes themselves wearing out, or maybe the stake wires coming off (especially if they are not epoxied in like a lot of cheap devices skip). Aside from the limited lifetime brushed motors have an awful lot of advantages so almost everything before about 5 years ago with any torque will have used them somewhere in it (even if only as a starter) and even today they are still common as you like -- if something is not brushed it will be in the sales fluff saying whoo this is brushless.

Also the carbon on board approach has been used for many years; if you have some old remote controls then pull them apart, chances are the cheaper devices will be this (or the reverse and have a membrane pad with it embedded it in). Most of those are single press buttons but flex fracture and wear are seen there, as well as dust and grime.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 20, 2019)

Everyone here should be able to replace the joysticks, and while your at it, you can add a custom case if you want.


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## Duo8 (Jul 20, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> The bumper microswitches are mounted exactly the same way as all vertical microswitches are - using two additional pins on each side. The switches on the 360 controller are mounted the same way, it's actually fairly robust. The gap is there to allow for some flexibility - if the switch was mounted too snug, you could accidentally lift a trace. By giving it a little bit of room the microswitch will just bend back a little and, hopefully, spring back into place, but I can see what you mean - there is potential for it bending permanently depending on how ductile the metal is. They could implement a secondary vertical board to mount the microswitch flat, but I don't think it's too offensive.
> 
> As for the flex cable, I wouldn't worry about it at all - it's not a moving part, so there is no reason for it to develop a fault unless it's pinched during assembly. Flex cables fail when they're repeatedly flexed back and forth, that's why we see screen failure on clamshell systems like the DS or the 3DS whereas Circle Pad or mic faults are relatively rare unless it's the user who was messing about. Cables in general work harden, they don't disintegrate randomly.
> 
> View attachment 173508


The cables break only after a few flexes. I only opened mine twice before they broke.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also I wouldn't call the carbons traces thin, they're about 0.5mm IIRC, mine barely had the surface scratched.


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## MrCokeacola (Jul 20, 2019)

Controllers are not meant to last forever. If a Joycon breaks after it is no longer under warranty then that's just though luck. It's up the to consumer to be the judge if they want to buy an item that is of dubious quality no one is forcing you to buy Joycons or a Switch. If this class action actually goes anywhere it will set a bad precedent for any electronic manufacturer that purposefully puts built-in obsolescence into their products.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 20, 2019)

MrCokeacola said:


> Controllers are not meant to last forever. If a Joycon breaks after it is no longer under warranty then that's just though luck. It's up the to consumer to be the judge if they want to buy an item that is of dubious quality no one is forcing you to buy Joycons or a Switch. If this class action actually goes anywhere it will set a bad president for any electronic manufacturer that purposefully puts built-in obsolescence into their products.


So manufacturers will think twice about planned obsolescence? Don't tease us like that.

Also in most places the manufacturer is expected to provide an item suitable for task, though the US has some of the weakest consumer protection laws in the developed world.


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## Rfire (Jul 20, 2019)

MrCokeacola said:


> If this class action actually goes anywhere it will set a bad precedent for any electronic manufacturer that purposefully puts built-in obsolescence into their products.



Good. I'm sick of corporations deliberately building things to fail not long after the warranty period. Things use to be built to last. Now I cannot find a table fan that doesn't have a sealed motor to allow me to re-lubricate the bearings myself every 3-4 years from heavy use. I really hope it does set a precedent and serves as a stark deterrence from screwing over consumers any further. If the Joy-Cons were like $20 it would be acceptable, but given the cost of these they should be built like a tank.

I'll never buy Lasko products again because they seem to be dead obvious when it comes to planned obsolescence of their fans.

If Nintendo keeps it up I'll only buy their hardware used if at all to avoid them getting any money from me until they start building high quality hardware again. I have a GameCube controller from 2003 that still works 100% fine. The R button was sticky but that was because something somehow got in it, but that was my fault not Nintendo and I disassembled it and cleaned it and now it works as good as new. I've used that thing for thousands of hours. It's the only controller I use for GameCube emulation and N64. If the Joy-Cons were even HALF the quality of the GameCube controller I'd be satisfied.

I bought a used Pro controller - was going to buy it new but decided I'm not giving Nintendo any more money until they seriously address this issue and offer to replace problematic Joy-Cons and THEY pay for shipping both ways. Given the egregiousness of this, they should in this one case do what Logitech does or use to do and just send out a replacement Joy-Con using a new analog stick design to anyone who submits an RMA. Perhaps requiring attached proof in the form of a video taken with a cell phone pointed at the Switch when in the stick calibration screen showing the cursor off-center with nothing touching the stick. When I had a Logitech mouse go bad and submitted an RMA, I had a new one waiting on my porch two days later -- they didn't even ask me to mail in the broken one.

I think given that they probably had prior knowledge by their QA department of this problem before the launch of the Switch, that they should also replace the out of warranty ones. Also they should recall all existing stock that was shipped to stores as soon as they have a revision that uses a different stick mechanism.

I've owned Nintendo hardware since 1990 when my first console as a child was the NES. My NES controller still works, my N64 controller still works, SNES, DS, 3DS, and so on. I also have a DualShock 2 that sustained abuse over the years that still works as the day I bought it. The Joy-Con is the first controller made by anybody that I've experienced drift with - including a brand new set of neon yellow Joy-Cons that drifted out of the box even with the non-solution software 'solutions' such as the calibration menu.

Also, given reports of malfunctioning d-pads on the Pro controller and failure of the SL SR and shoulder buttons in the Joy-Cons this firm should investigate those as well. While probably not as widespread as the drift issue, they still warrant investigation.. Though I have yet to experience those issues myself I've seen plenty of posts from people who did.

Remember, all consumers benefit when tort against faulty electronics makers succeeds. It deters companies from excessively cheaping out forcing them to use a higher minimum standard of quality. Suits such as these are watched by Nintendo's competitors as well. If Nintendo is found liable for damages, other companies that design peripherals with analog sticks will be less likely to overly cheap out. Remember, the Joy-Cons are not cheap -- they are controllers of bottom shelf quality being sold at mid-to-high shelf quality prices. When you buy some $10 third party controller off eBay you have a reasonable expectation that it is not high quality and thus it's expected to not last, but when you charge top shelf prices you had better have top shelf quality to go along with it.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 20, 2019)

raxadian said:


> The fact the sticks are almost as cheapy made as if they were illegal clones while costing so damm much is really unfair.
> 
> I like the Switch but not the Switch controllers.



the joycons are more than the sticks used in them.
and compared to almost all other controllers on the market, there's a ton of stuff crammed into these tiny things.

granted, not all of that was all that useful looking back, just like 3d on 3ds, hd rumble never took off in the way nintendo probably hoped it would.
appart from labo, barely anyone used the IR cam, it might've been cheaper to leave it out of the joycon and just bundle a labo stick with the cardboard.
taking those out would open up room for the battery whcih in turn would allow space for a more conventional stick setup as found on the pro controller.

that said, the stick was clearly a compromise decision, it was likely the thinnest one on the market at the time, potentially only existing because the vita used them before?


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2019)

bowser said:


> I have personally fixed my joy-cons by taking the joysticks apart. The problem is because of very fine dust covering the carbon traces and messes up the resistance readings. After cleaning off the dust with alcohol on a Q-tip they were A-ok. This is not a case of the sliders "eating up" the traces.
> 
> Now as to how the dust got in there in the first place, I'm not sure. It can be either from the external environment OR it can actually be ground up plastic from the internal components of the joystick. It was white and very fine like talcum powder and the internal pieces are white.
> 
> ...


The trace is not pure carbon, it's a mixture of carbon and resin, so the dust resulting from friction wouldn't necessarily be black. That said, judging by the fact that it was _"very"_ white in this instance, my guess is that it actually comes from the analog assembly itself - that's where most of the friction occurs.

It would also be consistent with what happens on other sticks, except there the potentiometers are better-isolated due to their position and the shape of the assembly. There are some inert greases meant specifically for plastics that would solve this problem and lube things up, might be a good idea to give it a little dab. Plastic gear grease is cheap, a small application in the mechanism, working it in and removing the excess would not only stop the plastic from shearing during use, but it would also _"catch"_ any dust that's already on the surfaces and trap it in the grease - something worth considering for all the home-grown engineers here.


Duo8 said:


> The cables break only after a few flexes. I only opened mine twice before they broke.
> 
> Also I wouldn't call the carbons traces thin, they're about 0.5mm IIRC, mine barely had the surface scratched.


The end-user is expected to open it zero times, it's not something the average user should have to do at all, so you can't blame Nintendo for the flex breaking during disassembly. As for the scratches on the traces, you won't necessary see the damage with the naked eye - we're talking about a high precision part with very specific tolerances. Even a bit of dust ingress can render it unusable, let alone microfractures or scratches on the resin.


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## DarthDub (Jul 20, 2019)

I never personally experienced the drifting, but I did have a weird thing happen where my left Joycon (attached) would say low battery multiple times in a row if I take the Switch out of the dock after sitting in it for over a month.


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## chaoskagami (Jul 20, 2019)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> Hell, the knockoffs analog sticks available on eBay are only $2 to $6 and function nearly as well, meaning it probably costs less than a dollar for Nintendo to make.



What you appear to have missed is this generation of joysticks is generic off-the-shelf components. These joysticks are used by more than Nintendo and are generic components manufactured in the same form by multiple companies. So those sticks on eBay aren't knockoffs, they're just compatible OEM joystick components.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> What you appear to have missed is this generation of joysticks is generic off-the-shelf components. These joysticks are used by more than Nintendo and are generic components manufactured in the same form by multiple companies. So those sticks on eBay aren't knockoffs, they're just compatible OEM joystick components.


I would not be surprised if the excessively cheap sticks you often see sold in large batches were exactly the same sticks that failed QC due to small differences in tolerances, or even straight up the exact same sticks, depending on price. *Some* assemblies are custom, but that's exceedingly rare nowadays, yes.


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## Deleted member 488468 (Jul 20, 2019)

ShadowOne333 said:


> @cucholix @ploggy let's settle this once and for all!
> Fuck off, Nintendo, and your cheap-ass sticks!
> It's finally time for someone to put them in their place.
> 
> ...



Nintendo's been sued on multiple occasions before, as most major companies do. Fan Projects infringe Nintendo's copyrights, and they don't even ask permission to use their characters. Sadly, even if they did ask permission, they would say no. Nintendo is also against Emulation because it's piracy (unless you rip the game itself and don't provide it to anyone), but they're not dealing with the situation enough.


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## guily6669 (Jul 20, 2019)

DarthDub said:


> I never personally experienced the drifting, but I did have a weird thing happen where my left Joycon (attached) would say low battery multiple times in a row if I take the Switch out of the dock after sitting in it for over a month.


Same problem, however I never even used the dock... I leave my switch OFF for months, but the console is always at 99-100% and the joy-cons after just a few time are always at 0%...

But I guess is because I also never used the joy-cons wirelessly so I never done a cycle in them so that they learn the full 0 to 100% calibration...

Anyway I really hate that almost everything uses pots that keep scratching and wearing out and leaving dust inside when there's lot of other cheap technologies which last like almost 4 ever.


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## Duo8 (Jul 20, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> I would not be surprised if the excessively cheap sticks you often see sold in large batches were exactly the same sticks that failed QC due to small differences in tolerances, or even straight up the exact same sticks, depending on price. *Some* assemblies are custom, but that's exceedingly rare nowadays, yes.


Nah the fake sticks are designed differently. They're replicas. You can tell them apart visually.
That said, original parts are now available from China.


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## ChrisYT (Jul 20, 2019)

TunaKetchup said:


> I am a victim of joycon drift
> 
> I support this investigation


me too, i can't even play anymore, it's THAT bad


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## chrisrlink (Jul 20, 2019)

Veho said:


> I don't recall anything related to controllers, but Microsoft did get sued for the RROD epidemic.
> 
> https://gizmodo.com/microsoft-sued-over-xbox-360-rrod-issues-5064742
> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Lawsuit,news-2779.html
> https://kotaku.com/microsoft-hit-with-class-action-over-rrod-5064213


and Sony got sued for Other OS removal


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## DBOA (Jul 20, 2019)

i'm afraid of buying the Switch Lite, because if there's any drift, i will be a pain to fix it...


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## Jimbo_Slim (Jul 20, 2019)

Owned my Switch since a week after SSBU's launch. No drifting problems even though my Switch has been through some things. Only thing I've noticed is input delay while playing Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and that was fixed by moving my leg out of the way. (Although I think I accidentally swapped my red Joy-con with someone else)


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## p1ngpong (Jul 20, 2019)

Good, hopefully these criminal fraudsters with their their cheap, unreliable Asian electronics get sued to oblivion. You don't see anyone suing MS or Sony over xbox pads or dual shocks.

The day I see a load of Nintendo employees and their families begging for scraps at the food line is the day I know justice has finally been done.

SCUM!


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## PityOnU (Jul 20, 2019)

Just a heads up: This lawsuit is officially a thing now. No longer "in investigation"


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2019)

PityOnU said:


> Just a heads up: This lawsuit is officially a thing now. No longer "in investigation"


I don't think it's necessarily Nintendo's fault, but I'm half-glad that it's happening. The quality of Nintendo's consoles has steadily declined over the years, they need to step up their game.


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## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Jul 20, 2019)

Fuck off nintendo
My sticks drift and do shit tons of phantom inputs on the home screen


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## Pleng (Jul 21, 2019)

Ericthegreat said:


> Everyone here should be able to replace the joysticks.



Why?


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 21, 2019)

Pleng said:


> Why?


Why not?


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## Gimzie (Jul 21, 2019)

Am surprised people are talking about drifting analog sticks, but no mention of broken latches/buckles (being able to slide off a Joy-Con without having to hold the unlock button). Those things snap incredibly easily, especially considering they're plastic. (Which, of course there's probably some reasoning behind, but that doesn't excuse it from happening in normal day-to-day use)


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## Pippin666 (Jul 21, 2019)

Typical american bullshit.  They sue everyone over anything. "My coffee is hot breeeh not written on the cup.". USA bullshit all over again.

Pip'


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 21, 2019)

hehehe yeah the guy is a nobody so nintendo will just brush it off. even the attorney handling it says they have low chance of success


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2019)

Pippin666 said:


> Typical american bullshit.  They sue everyone over anything. "My coffee is hot breeeh not written on the cup.". USA bullshit all over again.
> 
> Pip'


While the US has many examples of frivolous lawsuits, and lawsuits instead of just trying to sort things out, a) the mcdonalds coffee thing is actually fairly sound law* so not really an example of frivolous and b) Nintendo almost certainly fucked up here and put out a sub par product before refusing to acknowledge/warranty the issue, and class action is probably the better choice here given the generally weak state of US consumer protection/warranty law.

*choice video if you wanted it


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## pedro702 (Jul 21, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> While the US has many examples of frivolous lawsuits, and lawsuits instead of just trying to sort things out, a) the mcdonalds coffee thing is actually fairly sound law* so not really an example of frivolous and b) Nintendo almost certainly fucked up here and put out a sub par product before refusing to acknowledge/warranty the issue, and class action is probably the better choice here given the generally weak state of US consumer protection/warranty law.
> 
> *choice video if you wanted it



i dont get you you say they refuse to warranty, the switch has a minimum warranty of 2 years joy cons included so if they break you can send them in and get them fixed never heard them refuse to fix them.Sure people like me that bough switch day one already lost their warranry on march but hey that is with every eletronic product, im on my third fridge in 9 years they all fail on 3 or 4 year out of the warranty and there is nothing that can be done fix them or buy a new one like they say.


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## MasterZoilus (Jul 21, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.



So because they're NOT manufactured by them there's no R&D???? lol  doesn't matter who the F makes them, if nintendo wanted the change, the manufacturer would have to do R&D to find fix and develop another one. They WILL charge nintendo for that, ergo... nintendo will be paying for it because that's how business works.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 21, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> i dont get you you say they refuse to warranty, the switch has a minimum warranty of 2 years joy cons included so if they break you can send them in and get them fixed never heard them refuse to fix them.Sure people like me that bough switch day one already lost their warranry on march but hey that is with every eletronic product, im on my third fridge in 9 years they all fail on 3 or 4 year out of the warranty and there is nothing that can be done fix them or buy a new one like they say.


Is this topic not filled with people being quoted fixing prices* like they broke it, and Nintendo trying to downplay it?
*they are trying to play it off as a shipping fee but that seems to be north of $40 at times which is a bit steep for a device that costs $70 new.

If you are in Portugal as well then you might want to check your local laws -- most EU countries have consumer protection/sale of goods type laws that have phrases like "reasonable lifetime", as might your credit card if you bought it on one (and your credit card will probably step up if the manufacturer and/or vendor is out of business). The manufacturer warranty wherein they send out an engineer or send out a replacement no questions asked might expire in 1 or 2 years but country laws might say they still have to do something for said reasonable lifetime, or some of the newer ones that lose that phrase still have 5 or so years, which can also apply to the shop you bought it from. Most people don't know about such laws, and most sellers of things try everything they can to not take them under it (in the UK they used to hate it when I taught people about what was then called the sale of goods act) including telling you there is nothing they can do if you don't know the name of the relevant law. I believe I did have a look at Portuguese law once for a thread around here but was looking in English so if you speak the language you would get better results.
The US however lacks such consumer protections/inherent warranties for many things, and even things like cars are still massively complex (the guy I linked a video of back there specialises in that area of law if you were curious about how that plays out). Some then wonder if that is why prices are so much cheaper (how many times have they swapped the dollar sign for a pound/euro when exchange rates reflect nothing like the difference?) if they don't have to dispose of old goods under environmental laws, don't have warranties worth the paper they are printed on, and don't have 20% sales tax but different topic there.


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## pedro702 (Jul 21, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Is this topic not filled with people being quoted fixing prices* like they broke it, and Nintendo trying to downplay it?
> *they are trying to play it off as a shipping fee but that seems to be north of $40 at times which is a bit steep for a device that costs $70 new.
> 
> If you are in Portugal as well then you might want to check your local laws -- most EU countries have consumer protection/sale of goods type laws that have phrases like "reasonable lifetime", as might your credit card if you bought it on one (and your credit card will probably step up if the manufacturer and/or vendor is out of business). The manufacturer warranty wherein they send out an engineer or send out a replacement no questions asked might expire in 1 or 2 years but country laws might say they still have to do something for said reasonable lifetime, or some of the newer ones that lose that phrase still have 5 or so years, which can also apply to the shop you bought it from. Most people don't know about such laws, and most sellers of things try everything they can to not take them under it (in the UK they used to hate it when I taught people about what was then called the sale of goods act) including telling you there is nothing they can do if you don't know the name of the relevant law. I believe I did have a look at Portuguese law once for a thread around here but was looking in English so if you speak the language you would get better results.
> The US however lacks such consumer protections/inherent warranties for many things, and even things like cars are still massively complex (the guy I linked a video of back there specialises in that area of law if you were curious about how that plays out). Some then wonder if that is why prices are so much cheaper (how many times have they swapped the dollar sign for a pound/euro when exchange rates reflect nothing like the difference?) if they don't have to dispose of old goods under environmental laws, don't have warranties worth the paper they are printed on, and don't have 20% sales tax but different topic there.


well here if you bought it on a retail store you take it there and then they send it to the manufactor, i never paid anything to fix stuff that was on warranty, even cars, you just take it to the dealership and they must fix it, so i dont need to send it to nintendo i just take it to the eletronic store i bought it from and they do the rest, if i need to pay anything is the way to the eletronic store i bought it from anyway.

Not that it matters since my switch is out of warranty since it made its 2 years, and my joycons are fine btw, but i did send stuff to warranty and got new products back like hairdryers and even a game that was broken on the gbc it was pokemon crystal and then sent me a new one, even tough i was a kid and i had broken t with water or whatever lol.


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## Pluupy (Jul 21, 2019)

I sleep with my Switch on my bed because I dont have an end table. I always figured my joycons drifted because it got damaged from pillows sitting on top of it.


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## THYPLEX (Jul 21, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> my joycons are fine and i have a launch day switch lol.


As you can had read , you're just lucky


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## Hambrew (Jul 22, 2019)

guys calm down.
just replace the Joy-Con sticks with the Wii U GamePad sticks.
I've never experienced GamePad stick drift, and it's actually get us to pull out our Wii Us once again XD


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## TheZander (Jul 22, 2019)

This happened with the wii strap right? I hope they beat this,


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## UltraSUPRA (Jul 22, 2019)

Never been a victim.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 22, 2019)

TheZander said:


> This happened with the wii strap right? I hope they beat this,


Had a quick catch up on those ( https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/12/wii_strap_lawsuit/ and https://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-sued-over-wii-wrist-straps/1100-6163421/ ). Seems like a different aspect of law -- damages resulting from poor engineering design vs this which is failure of items from poor engineering design, and inadequate response to it. What did Nintendo do or not do here to warrant the "I hope they beat this"? It seems pretty justified from where I sit.

Edit. Found a conclusion to the 2008 one. Nintendo won summary judgement in 2010 https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20100924743
Another mentioned the 2006 case ended in Nintendo's favour as well.



Hambrew said:


> guys calm down.
> just replace the Joy-Con sticks with the Wii U GamePad sticks.
> I've never experienced GamePad stick drift, and it's actually get us to pull out our Wii Us once again XD


I thought nobody bought the Wii U, which was most of the problem.


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## midstor (Jul 22, 2019)

Chary said:


> View attachment 173491​
> Joy-Con connectivity issues have plagued Nintendo Switch owners since the launch of the console, more than two years ago. Recently, Joy-Con drift has become a topic of interest once more, due to fans vocally expressing their disappointment. With no real solution in sight, it appears that a law firm is stepping in to see if they can make things happen. The law firm, called Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP, is a three-decade old institution that focuses on class action lawsuits. According to CSK&D, they have begun an investigation into a possible class-action lawsuit against Nintendo for selling faulty Joy-Cons that have phantom input and interfere with gaming.
> 
> You can fill out the form in the link below to offer your personal experiences with your Joy-Cons to help give the firm more information to work with. If enough reports come in, then CSK&D will move forward with their lawsuit. Whether this will result in a solution or even make it to court is unclear, but the threat of legal action could perhaps spur Nintendo into coming up with a fix or revision for future Joy-con releases.
> ...


imo payback for last years shit with roms sry for bad spelimg i am writig this on swithhh :/


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## Hambrew (Jul 22, 2019)

midstor said:


> imo payback for last years shit with roms sry for bad spelimg i am writig this on swithhh :/


ya do know that the switch has a USB port. plug in a keyboard and be quiet


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## Xabring (Jul 23, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> As someone who's in the middle of trying to mod some Joy-Cons with Basstop D-Pad shells right at this moment, it is a pain.


Agreed. I had to mod mine with the simple antenna trick to make it work.



Foxi4 said:


> There is very little Nintendo could do about the issue, even if they tried to resolve it. Potentiometers are just not reliable, they're highly susceptible to wear and tear because the carbon races are very soft in order to facilitate smooth operation. They could use races made of harder resin, I suppose, but they all wear down eventually. This weakness of analog stick assemblies isn't exactly news, it hits all controller manufacturers, some more than others. It's one of the reasons why Sony never used pots for their analog triggers _(they use force sensitive resistors)_ and Microsoft switched away from them on the One _(they use Hall effect sensors)_ - the moment they had a feasible alternative, they ditched the failure point. Sadly, the same cannot be done for the sticks.


So...replacing them with 3DS like ones is better or worse?
I am curious if it actually works.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 23, 2019)

Xabring said:


> So...replacing them with 3DS like ones is better or worse?
> I am curious if it actually works.


You would have to mark down the pinout, compare the resistance of the traces on both and compare the voltage across the X/Y axes. If they match, I don't see why it wouldn't work, there's no magical smart circuitry in there. Sounds like an interesting experiment. That being said, you *would* lose L3/R3 functionality, so perhaps "fattening the Joycons up" with normal sticks would be a better idea.


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 23, 2019)

nintendo finally respond or should i say respond with "we knew about this from day one and don't give a fuck"


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## chrisrlink (Jul 25, 2019)

so.......is the lawsuit still on cause I'm riding sue sue train til the end good the less people on board assuming we get damages the more I'll get


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## Daggot (Jul 25, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> so.......is the lawsuit still on cause I'm riding sue sue train til the end good the less people on board assuming we get damages the more I'll get


Yeah, its probably still on. Bethesda sent people real canvas bags in the end but they're still getting sued for sending out nylon in the first place for F76. Nintendo hasn't made a new revision to fix the drift and for the last 2 years they've been charging $50 for it to be repaired so they cant escape a class action that easily. This is less of a move to avoid a lawsuit and more of a move to reduce damages owed.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 25, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> i dont get you you say they refuse to warranty, the switch has a minimum warranty of 2 years joy cons included so if they break you can send them in and get them fixed never heard them refuse to fix them.Sure people like me that bough switch day one already lost their warranry on march but hey that is with every eletronic product, im on my third fridge in 9 years they all fail on 3 or 4 year out of the warranty and there is nothing that can be done fix them or buy a new one like they say.


People often misunderstand what a "warranty" is. Just because a product is under warranty doesn't mean that you're necessarily entitled to a repair, free or otherwise. Certain kinds of faults are considered natural wear and tear and are not covered by a manufacturer's warranty - analog stick drift could potentially fall under that category. To put it into perspective when you buy a car from a dealer and it has a set of tires, those tires will only be usable for a set amount of miles. If you drive a whole lot, so much that you go through the threads within the warranty period, you can't reasonably expect the manufacturer to replace them for you - they're a replaceable consumable. Similarly, if you tweak your analog stick back and forth 24/7, you can't reasonably expect it to be replaced free of charge because there isn't an analog stick assembly on the planet that could withstand that. There are many other mechanical and electrical faults that are in this grey area of warranties, like the battery. A lithium battery will begin to show signs of degradation after around 500 charge cycles - it will last a year for most users, but if you fully charge and discharge it three times a day, which is possible if you put your mind to it, the overall capacity will be affected within a little over four months. Then there's the question of whether a product is fit for purpose or not, which is the angle of this lawsuit, and a whole different kind of warranty issue. This stuff can get convoluted in a hurry, especially since nobody _really_ reads the policies that come with their products, and companies know this.


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## pedro702 (Jul 25, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> People often misunderstand what a "warranty" is. Just because a product is under warranty doesn't mean that you're necessarily entitled to a repair, free or otherwise. Certain kinds of faults are considered natural wear and tear which are not covered by a manufacturer's warranty - analog stick drift could potentially fall under that category. To put it into perspective when you buy a car from a dealer and it has a set of tires, those tires will only be usable for a set amount of miles. If you drive a whole lot, so much that you go through the threads within the warranty period, you can't reasonably expect the manufacturer to replace them for you - they're a replaceable consumable. Similarly, if you tweak your analog stick back and forth 24/7, you can't reasonably expect it to be replaced free of charge because there isn't an analog stick assembly on the planet that could withstand that. There are many other mechanical and electrical faults that are in this grey area of warranties, like the battery. A lithium battery will begin to show signs of degradation after around 500 charge cycles - it will last a year for most users, but if you fully charge and discharge it three times a day, which is possible if you put your mind to it, the overall capacity will be affected within a little over four months. Then there's the question of whether a product is fit for purpose or not, which is the angle of this lawsuit, and a whole different kind of warranty issue. This stuff can get convoluted in a hurry, especially since nobody _really_ reads the policies that come with their products, and companies know this.


well this lawsuit now is nule and void, when nintendo says they will fix every jycon drift for free without even showing proof of concept and refund anyone who paid shipping fee in the past.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 25, 2019)

pedro702 said:


> well this lawsuit now is nule and void, when nintendo says they will fix every jycon drift for free without even showing proof of concept and refund anyone who paid shipping fee in the past.


The problem is the underlying bad design and whether or not it was made that way on purpose, not the warranty. You can't do something maliciously and then go "ha, ha, you got me!", that's not how it works. People wasted money and time, they might want damages, and some punitive measures against Nintendo.


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## DeoNaught (Jul 25, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> The problem is the underlying bad design and whether or not it was made that way on purpose, not the warranty. You can't do something maliciously and then go "ha, ha, you got me!", that's not how it works. People wasted money and time, they might want damages, and some punitive measures against Nintendo.


I don't think it was malicious? I think it was just a design oversight, I think if anything they would be sued for not doing anything after two years after the release?


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## guily6669 (Jul 25, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> .... *A lithium battery will begin to show signs of degradation after around 500 charge cycles*...


That depends a lot on the battery quality and user care too...

Li-ion for max cycles should have been charged to 4.1 (some phones like my Xperia Z2 allow that option however its kinda hidden and not even on the battery settings, it clearly states it will make the battery have more cycles but a bit less phone usage time per charge), nowadays most are charged to 4.2 for maximum capacity and depending on how the battery is made too.

Anyway if someone keep removing from the charger and keep charging a lot without doing cycles its usually also not much good to keep over doing it, leaving the battery empty for some time also lead to battery capacity drop very fast and if its heavily used it might never wake up again (this happens a lot to me since I have a shit load of batteries and I won't be spending my whole days keeping them at storage voltage, I have lots of nimh, Nicd, PB, Li-ion, Lipos, Li-fe, it would be hard to keep a gazillion batteries in storage charge which is different for each type (Li-ion storage voltage is at around half charge), however I think only Nicd can be kinda safely left without any charge for long times)...

Also high temps constantly will make the battery to not also give high cycles (specially keeping the battery on the edge of its max amp output and badly chosen models may lead to explosions if it can't handle the discharge like Nvidia, Samsung and many other brands had problems with). But the most problematic is really for vaping on mechanic mods, it should be left for people with knowledge only since the batteries must be carefully chosen, well cared and always calculate the right resistance of the coil to stay within the range of safety for the chosen battery or shit happens like we see on news\youtube, I'm almost sure all the mechanic mod explosion were user fault...


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## Foxi4 (Jul 25, 2019)

guily6669 said:


> That depends a lot on the battery quality and user care too...
> 
> Li-ion for max cycles should have been charged to 4.1 (some phones like my Xperia Z2 allow that option however its kinda hidden and not even on the battery settings, it clearly states it will make the battery have more cycles but a bit less phone usage time per charge), nowadays most are charged to 4.2 for maximum capacity and depending on how the battery is made too.
> 
> ...


The amount of cycles for a battery is dependant on a number of factors, including full discharge voltage, full charge voltage, maximum discharge current, operational temperature etc., but +/- 500 cycles is considered the industry standard. Even lowering the peak voltage to 4.1V effectively doubles the number of cycles you can get out of it, and it's well-worth the trade-off. Consumer electronics often only charge batteries up to 4.1V, or even 4V specifically for that reason, and looking at the discharge curve there really isn't that much energy stored in that region, voltage drops quickly to nominal under load anyway, so you may as well prolong the life of the cell instead of pushing it to its limit. You will see some variation between one cell and another, even within the same range, so any specific observations can only be made by analysing the cell in question. As for leaving the battery with little to no charge, things are not nearly as bad as they used to be and most lithium batteries can return to operational parameters after a lengthy trickle charge, but as a general rule going below the minimum voltage of 2.6V is discouraged due to the possibility of dendrite formation which can pierce the separators and lead to the cell shorting internally. There's a lot to talk about when it comes to batteries, for sure - there are lots of different chemistries with very different properties under one umbrella of "li-ion". As for potential accidents and improper use, it's always necessary to look up the specs of the cell prior to using it in order to determine whether its characteristics are fit for purpose, but in this case it has to be since it's a dedicated battery. 

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries


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## guily6669 (Jul 26, 2019)

Yep, but anyway last time my Nvidia Shield tablet was left without charge it took me almost 2 days for it to show life and even brand new I already had 3 and the 3 did the problem, if the voltage drops below the safety sometimes its just a blackout and not even shows charging light. Most of the times its easy to make it back to life, but the worse 4 me took almost 2 days for it to start showing signs of life .

Also I'm getting huge problem with good Samsung 3000mah Li-ion batteries on my vaping mod, they keep getting very uncalibrated after a few cycles and its screwing my batteries in very low number of cycles, basically one gets overdischarged and the other with a lot of juice and keeps going grrrrr...  (the name of the brand says it all "Voo*Poo*", though I like it).

At least switch and almost all phones won't have this problem since they use a single battery, but it totally also happens if they are left unused for long time without charge and the more you do it the worse it gets...


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## chrisrlink (Jul 27, 2019)

fyi i reached out to the lawfirm again to confirm the lawsuit is still active and wether or not having your joycon(s) repaired bumps you off the suit so until i tell you DO NOT TAKE THEIR OFFER if your on the class action


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## Foxi4 (Jul 27, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> fyi i reached out to the lawfirm again to confirm the lawsuit is still active and wether or not having your joycon(s) repaired bumps you off the suit so until i tell you DO NOT TAKE THEIR OFFER if your on the class action


The return from a class action lawsuit is going to be significantly less than a new pair of Joycons, just a forward warning.


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## chrisrlink (Jul 27, 2019)

still a good ol middle finger to the big N for all this IP bullshit for non profit fangames


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## guily6669 (Jul 28, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> still a good ol middle finger to the big N for all this IP bullshit for non profit fangames


Totally agree, it's not even the value that matters 4 me is nintendo having a lesson for once since they are also the worse gaming company in terms of lawsuits, closing websites and everything... If they do crap, they should also take full responsibility...


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## Pleng (Jul 28, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> still a good ol middle finger to the big N for all this IP bullshit for non profit fangames





guily6669 said:


> Totally agree, it's not even the value that matters 4 me is nintendo having a lesson for once since they are also the worse gaming company in terms of lawsuits, closing websites and everything... If they do crap, they should also take full responsibility...



This lawsuit has nothing to do with closing websites and fan-game takedowns so, regardless of the success, Nintendo will learn _ nothing _ on said subjects


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## guily6669 (Jul 28, 2019)

Pleng said:


> This lawsuit has nothing to do with closing websites and fan-game takedowns so, regardless of the success, Nintendo will learn _ nothing _ on said subjects


It doesnt need to be related... just wanted to laugh at them if they lose on something big on court no matter what...

And replacing bad designed joysticks is pointless if all we will get is the same exact garbage low precision joysticks that will eventually fail... And specially for the price nintendo asks... I paid like 60€ for just the left gray stock joy-con here, my original just fell from low height to the ground and broke the rear button and PCB, they are beyond fragile compared to a lot of cheaper proper controllers out there, the Xone controller 4 example I can even punch the triggers, push them as hard as I want and nothing happen...


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## Pleng (Jul 28, 2019)

guily6669 said:


> It doesnt need to be related... just wanted to laugh at them if they lose on something big on court no matter what...



You said you want them to learn a lesson, but your example is punishment at any cost. They're very different principles.


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