# The situation in Ukraine...



## Taleweaver (Feb 13, 2022)

As we speak, thousands of Russian military units are deployed near the Ukraine borders. According to Putin, everything's fine and there's nothing to worry about. 

But everyone else seems to do exactly that. Ukraine 's political leaders (at least the president and Kiev' s major) ask the international insurances for help, Biden's issuising warnings of sanctions should it come to an invasion and the EU is asking their citizens to at least avoid going to the region. Belgium's sort of pulling out personnel. 

It started rather recently (unless we're talking about the crimea, but that's a different discussion), but I'm now starting to worry about an escalation or even a war. 

What's your take on this?


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## subcon959 (Feb 13, 2022)

It feels like news media has been trying really hard to escalate things. The cynical part of me suspects they are acutely aware how a war could boost their otherwise falling viewership.


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## subcon959 (Feb 15, 2022)

Isn't it interesting how only very specific topics get any interest in this forum?


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## Donnie-Burger (Feb 15, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> As we speak, thousands of Russian military units are deployed near the Ukraine borders. According to Putin, everything's fine and there's nothing to worry about.
> 
> But everyone else seems to do exactly that. Ukraine 's political leaders (at least the president and Kiev' s major) ask the international insurances for help, Biden's issuising warnings of sanctions should it come to an invasion and the EU is asking their citizens to at least avoid going to the region. Belgium's sort of pulling out personnel.
> 
> ...


Looks like Soros cant hide behind the kassarian Mafia anymore.  Trump N Putin comin for dat azz.  Time to witness the dissmantling of the U.N.

Putin:
To forgive the Terrorists is up to God
But to send them to him is up to me


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## Xzi (Feb 15, 2022)

Pretty fucked up.  Putin's claiming that Russia's aggression is all about Ukraine potentially joining NATO, but they've signaled no real interest in that, least of all when this nutless sack of shit is amassing troops and weapons on their borders.  So it's just an excuse.  The truth is Putin is yet another pathetic boomer who wants to return to the way things used to be, before the collapse of the USSR.



Donnie-Burger said:


> Looks like Soros cant hide behind the kassarian Mafia anymore.  Trump N Putin comin for dat azz.  Time to witness the dissmantling of the U.N.
> 
> Putin:
> To forgive the Terrorists is up to God
> But to send them to him is up to me


This is your brain on paint chips.  Don't eat paint chips, kids.


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## rantex92 (Feb 15, 2022)

meanwhile in moscow ....  " ukranian fever has gotten struck him down ukranian fever is spreading all around  with the ak in my hand im going to stake out some motherlands land "


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## subcon959 (Feb 15, 2022)

The whole "war is imminent" narrative is so familiar. I don't see any probable outcome where Putin actually invades. He's playing chess (maybe Kasparov is advising him).

This is an interesting perspective https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/14/the-west-invasion-ukraine-putin-russia

EDIT: Yeah, this comment didn't age well lol


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## MMX (Feb 15, 2022)

I think in this specific case we should only send people to war who want war, which is from looking at twitter, only leftists with dyed hair


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## Viri (Feb 15, 2022)

It does feel like the media is drumming things up for ratings, which doesn't surprise me.


But at the same time, when your neighboring country starts amassing over 100,000 troops on your border, training in tanks, I'd start freaking out too.


If Russia does invade, Ukraine is fucked.


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## Xzi (Feb 15, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> The whole "war is imminent" narrative is so familiar. I don't see any probable outcome where Putin actually invades. He's playing chess (maybe Kasparov is advising him).
> 
> This is an interesting perspective https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/14/the-west-invasion-ukraine-putin-russia


This would be more believable if anybody could actually tell us what he thinks he's going to get out of it.  There's nothing to be gained by bluffing in this situation, it has already cost Russia millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars to amass their forces and resources on the border.


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## Dr_Faustus (Feb 15, 2022)

I feel like this is half media overhype and half Putin doing his typical getting a rise out of others through flexing his force shit that he does. If you noticed anything about him he never typically acts within any reach of actually starting shit, but he likes to instigate shit to the point that he hopes someone will throw the first punch, giving him justification to go all out. Its a country to country equivalent of that annoying kid that puts his finger close to your face going "Im not touching you!" over and over again until someone smacks his hand away and they get pissed off enough to start fighting because "they were not the ones who started it". Right now we are just seeing that but with no one (hopefully) feeding into Putin's desire of making the first move which will give him the justification to retaliate. 

I would say this is Cold War Pt.2, but honestly if nothing comes from this chances are in a week or two we will forget all about it as the media will and instead we will be back on focusing on something else stupid on the news. The chances of an actual war coming out of this is slim, as Putin just loves to flex and troll to the point that every country is aware of it now.


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## caki883 (Feb 15, 2022)

Nato is a piece of crap. They are responsible for the whole situation. Now there will be no more Ukraine because of nato. Putin is right .
No I am not Russian


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## caki883 (Feb 15, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Pretty fucked up.  Putin's claiming that Russia's aggression is all about Ukraine potentially joining NATO, but they've signaled no real interest in that, least of all when this nutless sack of shit is amassing troops and weapons on their borders.  So it's just an excuse.  The truth is Putin is yet another pathetic boomer who wants to return to the way things used to be, before the collapse of the USSR.
> 
> 
> This is your brain on paint chips.  Don't eat paint chips, kids.


Ukraine want´s to join the whole time.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

caki883 said:


> Nato is a piece of crap. They are responsible for the whole situation. Now there will be no more Ukraine because of nato. Putin is right .
> No I am not Russian


YES!!! Who the F#$K  Ukraine  think they are...... trying to join NATO like an Independence Sovereign Country.
Putin wil not stand for Ukraine.. I mean...... Russia Jr .....joining anyone other then the reabsorption of USSSR


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## caki883 (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> YES!!! Who the F#$K  Ukranine  think they are trying to join NATO like an Independence Sovereign Country.
> Putin wil not say for Ukranine.. I mean Russia Jr joining anyone other then the reabsorption of USSSR


That deal made Nato with Russia. No more countries around Russia will be able to join Nato. And now they want to break the deal? Russia will wipe the Ukraine and nobody cares


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

caki883 said:


> That deal made Nato with Russia. No more countries around Russia will be able to join Nato. And now they want to break the deal? Russia will wipe the Ukraine and nobody cares


lol ok ... wait was that before or after Russia invaded  and is occuping Crimea? I would think that would  be a "deal " breaker
 but in all seriousness can you provide info on the "Deal"
 because no-one can actually produce this so call " deal"
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/115204.htm
Myth 1: NATO promised Russia it would not expand after the Cold War​*Fact: *Such an agreement was never made. NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 – and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.

The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "_The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either_."

Declassified White House transcripts also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: _"I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."_

Myth 3: Ukraine cannot join NATO

*Fact: *NATO Allies welcome Ukraine’s aspirations to join NATO and they stand by the decision made at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance.

Decisions regarding NATO membership are up to each individual applicant and the 30 NATO Allies. No one else. Russia has no right to intervene and cannot veto this process.

Like every country, Ukraine has the sovereign right to choose its own security arrangements. This is a fundamental principle of European security, one that Russia has also signed up to, including through the Helsinki Final Act (1975), the Charter of Paris (1990), the NATO-Russia Founding Act (1997) and the Charter for European Security (1999).


________________________
and Wait if the "deal" was made with NATO? Why would RUSSIA attack Ukraine ( the country that was not part of this "Deal")


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

That damn warmonger Trump is at it again, escalating and dragging us into another useless war after the whole Afghanistan debacle he did. He's the one in office right now, right? Not somebody else?


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> That damn warmonger Trump is at it again, escalating and dragging us into another useless war after the whole Afghanistan debacle he did. He's the one in office right now, right? Not somebody else?


you miss spelled Putin but hey. after the last 5 year its  easy to get them (Putin/trump) confused


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> you miss spelled Putin but hey. after the last 5 year its  easy to get them (Putin/trump) confused


Oh yeah, because it was Putin who made us pull out of Afghanistan in the most disgraceful way possible. How did I forget?


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh yeah, because it was Putin who made us pull out of Afghanistan in the most disgraceful way possible. How did I forget?


Love how 1 picture complete destroys your point 





anyway .. this Thread is about the Ukraine Situation .. not the Copefest of the last couple of Closed Threads


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Love how 1 picture complete destroys your point
> View attachment 298269
> 
> anyway .. this Thread is about the Ukraine Situation .. not the Copefest of the last couple of Closed Threads


I know, and it seems like the US wants to get involved for no reason, because of whoever's in office right now. And that is a lovely picture, did you take it?


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

.. ok comrade..
I know your just Trolling Anti- American sentiment but  
I think you mean NATO.... as Currently Turkey ( NATO Nation) has more Troop and Ships in the area then the US (ANOTHER NATO member)


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> .. ok comrade..
> I know your just Trolling Anti- American sentiment but
> I think you mean NATO.... as Currently Turkey ( NATO Nation) has more Troop and Ships in the area then the US (ANOTHER NATO member)


That number could easily change with just one call.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> That number could easily change with just one call.


..yea.. China .. or Australia can make a call and send 100,00k troop but what the hell that have to do with the current situation of  Russia not wanting UKriane to join another Group other than them?


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..yea.. China .. or Australia can make a call and send 100,00k troop but what the hell that have to do with the current situation of  Russia not wanting UKriane to join another Group other than them?


Maybe if you could phrase your sentences better I could answer that.

Seems to me Russian troops have been in Ukraine's border for years now and for whatever reason now it's a big deal. So a big deal over nothing as usual and the citizens of many countries are gonna pay one way or another as usual.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Maybe if you could phrase your sentences better I could answer that.
> 
> Seems to me Russian troops have been in Ukraine's border for years now and for whatever reason now it's a big deal. So a big deal over nothing as usual and the citizens of many countries are gonna pay one way or another as usual.


ohhhhh I apologize
 its COMPLETELY NORMAL for a country like Russia ( who invaded and took over Ukraine Crimea just 6 years ago) to amass   An estimated 130,000   troops along Ukraine boarder while Russian state media is reporting that They are TRYing to negotiate  with Ukraine avoid war.. https://www.rt.com/news/470014-ukraine-donbass-steinmeier-formula/
I mean  its COMPLETELY NORMAL to amass 130,000 Troops along a boarder with Country in the middle of peace talks ...NORMAL


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## Dr_Faustus (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I know, and it seems like the US wants to get involved for no reason, because of whoever's in office right now. And that is a lovely picture, did you take it?


To be fair its almost always expected for the US to say something on the matter because while it may not really involve us at all everyone seems to look at  us for a reaction to what should be done or just doing it ourselves. 

Truthfully I feel we should not get involved with international squabbles unless it harms us, or best interests or if the threat comes at our doorstep. Of course this is my opinion on the matter, but I say this because we have our own fuck ups that need fixing here and the efforts needed to do so are very needed since no other country is going to come in and help us in the same way we have for them in the past. Basically we need to worry about our own problems before we start getting involved into others, but we can't because then that would make us selfish to the bigger picture of geopolitical power I guess?

Its all a big wank.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> To be fair its almost always expected for the US to say something on the matter because while it may not really involve us at all everyone seems to look at  us for a reaction to what should be done or just doing it ourselves.
> 
> Truthfully I feel we should not get involved with international squabbles unless it harms us, or best interests or if the threat comes at our doorstep. Of course this is my opinion on the matter, but I say this because we have our own fuck ups that need fixing here and the efforts needed to do so are very needed since no other country is going to come in and help us in the same way we have for them in the past. Basically we need to worry about our own problems before we start getting involved into others, but we can't because then that would make us selfish to the bigger picture of geopolitical power I guess?
> 
> Its all a big wank.


I agree, Many times US need to butt out of international affairs that do not involve US.
But US is current actions not as an Independent Country but as a Nato Member as this is a NATO issue.. involving Ukraine


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ohhhhh I apologize
> its COMPLETELY NORMAL for a country like Russia ( who invaded and took over Ukraine Crimea just 6 years ago) to amass   An estimated 130,000   troops along Ukraine boarder while Russian state media is reporting that They are TRYing to negotiate  with Ukraine avoid war.. https://www.rt.com/news/470014-ukraine-donbass-steinmeier-formula/
> I mean  its COMPLETELY NORMAL to amass 130,000 Troops along a boarder with Country in the middle of peace talks ...NORMAL


weLL  GeE
when you PUT IT LIKE that it's hard to
argue with your POINT
i think you should GO OVER to RUSsia and TELL THEM how to neGOTiate peaCe TalKs!


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

this situation is a Simple one...(the gender orientation doesn't really matter, you can add any gender you want)
the *Girl (Ukraine) *want to date a* New Boyfriend (NATO) *but the* Old Boyfriend (Russia) *is standing in the way because the *Old Boyfriend (RUSSIA)* believes that the *Girl (Ukraine) *should always belong to the *OLD BOYFriend (Russia). *so the *OLD BOYFriend (Russia)* is threatening the *Girl (Ukraine) *"IF I cant have you, no one will


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> this situation is a Simple one...(the gender orientation doesn't really matter, you can add any gender you want)
> the *Girl (Ukraine) *want to date a* New Boyfriend (NATO) *but the* Old Boyfriend (Russia) *is standing in the way because the *Old Boyfriend (RUSSIA)* believes that the *Girl (Ukraine) *should always belong to the *OLD BOYFriend (Russia). *so the *OLD BOYFriend (Russia)* is threatening the *Girl (Ukraine) *"IF I cant have you, no one will


Good analogy and *use of bold words *there, but I still don't know how this involves the US at all. Because of NATO? Let countries govern and solve problems themselves for the most part unless the issue is really drastic, not a false flag of a supposed "invasion".


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Good analogy and *use of bold words *there, but I still don't know how this involves the US at all. Because of NATO? Let countries govern and solve problems themselves for the most part unless the issue is really drastic, not a false flag of a supposed "invasion".


man ever since  the Former Defeated president lost ..alot of Former "Mericas popping now.

This is a NATO issue meaning all NATO MEMBER are involved ...  30 member countries,  28 are in Europe, one of which (Turkey) is in both Europe and Asia, two are located in North America (Canada and the United States),


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> man ever since  the Formal Defeated president lost ..alot of Formal "Mericas popping now.
> 
> This is a NATO issue meaning all NATO MEMBER are involved ...  30 member countries,  28 are in Europe, one of which (Turkey) is in both Europe and Asia, two are located in North America (Canada and the United States),


Because we're in such good shape for any war right now. Booming economy. Strong borders. People being united like never before. So let's get involved because of something that was nothing to begin with but has been escalated for no good reason!


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because we're in such good shape for any war right now. Booming economy. Strong borders. People being united like never before. So let's get involved because of something that was nothing to begin with but has been escalated for no good reason!


what are you talking about ...
I pretty sure your knowledge is limited to just American Conservative talking points.. (which are currectly "American Bad because Democrats lead " and any country against US is Good)
 but you do know that there are more (non"American) NATO MEMBER TROOPS then American, right?
or  the fact TURkey is providing ALOT More support to Ukraine, more then the US  ( Troop, Training and Weapons
"Turkey said it won’t back down from clinching new defense deals with Ukraine, signing an agreement for the joint production of Turkish drones that have drawn Russia’s ire."


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## Stepperer (Feb 15, 2022)

Hmmmm, interesting question, WHY Donetsk and Lukhansk is Ukraine, but Kosovo is not Serbia?....


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> what are you talking about ...
> I pretty sure your knowledge is limited to just American Conservative talking points.. (which are currectly "American Bad because Democrats lead " and any country against US is Good)
> but you do know that there are more (non"American) NATO MEMBER TROOPS then American, right?
> or  the fact TURkey is providing ALOT More support to Ukraine, more then the US  ( Troop, Training and Weapons
> "Turkey said it won’t back down from clinching new defense deals with Ukraine, signing an agreement for the joint production of Turkish drones that have drawn Russia’s ire."


Then let them do what they want and not let us get involved. How are you not getting this- actually I'm not surprised at this point as to why.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Then let them do what they want and not let us get involved. How are you not getting this- actually I'm not surprised at this point as to why.


because This is a NATO issue.. does the Concept of NATO confuse you?

 "The *North Atlantic Treaty Organization* (*NATO*, /ˈneɪtoʊ/; French: _Organisation du traité de l'Atlantique nord_, *OTAN*), also called the *North Atlantic Alliance*, is an intergovernmental military alliance between 27 European countries, 2 North American countries, and 1 Eurasian country. The organization implements the North Atlantic Treaty that was signed on 4 April 1949.[3][4]"

ALL 30 NATO Nations are involved. I think your issue is because you are only Following American conservative news, (which only talks about a American topics and involvement ) you are under the Impression only America is acting and not seeing the worldwide view of EVERYONE in NATO is responding.


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## Dr_Faustus (Feb 15, 2022)

Honestly just on the speculative, if the territory of this was made more open beyond the North Atlantic, I wonder if Taiwan/Hong Kong would have tried to join it, and the shitstorm that China would have had over it would probably make it a very similar situation to what we are seeing right now if not far worse.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Honestly just on the speculative, if the territory of this was made more open beyond the North Atlantic, I wonder if Taiwan/Hong Kong would have tried to join it, and the shitstorm that China would have had over it would probably make it a very similar situation to what we are seeing right now if not far worse.


doubtful that will happen
1.Unfortunatly Hong Kong is already under control of China,  
2. Taiwan has a defense treaty already established with the US, ( I think the only reason China has not made a move), and the fact China and Taiwan has hinted willingness to the Two government 1 country idea.


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> because This is a NATO issue.. does the Concept of NATO confuse you?
> 
> "The *North Atlantic Treaty Organization* (*NATO*, /ˈneɪtoʊ/; French: _Organisation du traité de l'Atlantique nord_, *OTAN*), also called the *North Atlantic Alliance*, is an intergovernmental military alliance between 27 European countries, 2 North American countries, and 1 Eurasian country. The organization implements the North Atlantic Treaty that was signed on 4 April 1949.[3][4]"
> 
> ALL 30 NATO Nations are involved. I think your issue is because you are only Following American conservative news, (which only talks about a American topics and involvement ) you are under the Impression only America is acting and not seeing the worldwide view of EVERYONE in NATO is responding.


Because this isn't. Our. Problem. It never was a problem until a bunch of assholes decided it was a problem. Fuck NATO for all I care. We shouldn't get involved in made up wars because of a bunch of dickless morons who want us to. NATO or the UN or whatever isn't some world government we all have to abide by. And while treaties should be respected, it doesn't mean get involved in a made up problem because we say so. But since you say we should be involved because of NATO I have no doubt that you'll glady volunteer your services to solve this problem as a soldier.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because this isn't. Our. Problem. It never was a problem until a bunch of assholes decided it was a problem. Fuck NATO for all I care. We shouldn't get involved in made up wars because of a bunch of dickless morons who want us to. NATO or the UN or whatever isn't some world government we all have to abide by. And while treaties should be respected, it doesn't mean get involved in a made up problem because we say so. But since you say we should be involved because of NATO I have no doubt that you'll glady volunteer your services to solve this problem as a soldier.


so you are saying that the US needs to Break Decades old Treaties with about 1/3 of the Countries in World and allow a Another Global Superpower Forcefully (key word "FORCEFULLY")  get more power unposed ?


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## Citizen_404 (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because this isn't. Our. Problem. It never was a problem until a bunch of assholes decided it was a problem. Fuck NATO for all I care. We shouldn't get involved in made up wars because of a bunch of dickless morons who want us to. NATO or the UN or whatever isn't some world government we all have to abide by. And while treaties should be respected, it doesn't mean get involved in a made up problem because we say so. But since you say we should be involved because of NATO I have no doubt that you'll glady volunteer your services to solve this problem as a soldier.


It wasn't a problem before, because Trump was sucking Putin's dick so hard, and giving Big Putie everything he wanted, why did Putin need to invade? But now that there is actual leadership opposing Putin, he feels compelled to do something before his window of opportunity closes.


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> so you are saying that the US needs to Break Decades old Treaties with about 1/3 of the Countries in World and allow a Another Global Superpower Forcefully (key word "FORCEFULLY")  get more power unposed ?


Based on what? Lies of "RUSSIANS INVADERS UKRAINE" Yeah, no, we're done here since this is just going in circles. Have fun sucking the media's and Biden's saggy dick.


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

Citizen_404 said:


> It wasn't a problem before, because Trump was sucking Putin's dick so hard, and giving Big Putie everything he wanted, why did Putin need to invade? But now that there is actual leadership opposing Putin, he feels compelled to do something before his window of opportunity closes.


Sounds like to me you're the one drinking kool aid and sucking dicks. Hey that's cool, you do you.
"Actual leadership." pffffffffffffffffft hahahahahaha XD That's a good one I'll have to remember that one.


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## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Based on what? Lies of "RUSSIANS INVADERS UKRAINE" Yeah, no, we're done here since this is just going in circles. Have fun sucking the media's and Biden's saggy dick.


cool story from someone not familiar with world politics.
( does not know how Treaties work, or what NATO is)


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> cool story from someone not familiar with world politics.


Look who's talking.


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## tomberyx (Feb 15, 2022)

I don't think there will be a war because war is out of fashion in Europe. Why? Because it makes more money to enslave a jammer than to kill him. Of course, this circumstance cannot last forever. No matter who reacts first, the one with the most power always rules. This power balance is what triggers a volcanic eruption, not an explosion.

Death is always the first to benefit from a war, then only a few people come who have benefited but cannot sleep for the rest of their lives, if they should have a conscience.

A war would not come because the enemy is too small and it would not be wise to destroy it. War has never made roses grow, but some do or start one anyway.

If I don't like someone, I burn their house and he burns my car out of anger and the whole thing repeats itself ad infinitum.

A person who acts like this is certainly not the smartest but is unfortunately forced to do so because the majority have too much testosterone in them.


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## jos010 (Feb 15, 2022)

Ukraine is as corrupt as my ex mother in law, don't want that in the NATO


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## tomberyx (Feb 15, 2022)

Corruption exists in every poor country, even rich countries.

But what are the innocent people and children doing surrounded by corruption, are they also corrupt or is that just the image of the country. Corruption is always at the top, later the people are infected and in the end everyone is corrupt. The question here is are you corrupt because you want to be corrupt or do you do it to support your family? Neither method is correct, the evil always sits at the top and controls everything with a smile.

The smartest people who treated the people as if they were brother and sister are never to be found in government, and if they are, they only stay for a short time.

Some important brain cells stop working when you have too much power.


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## Szabon (Feb 15, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> The whole "war is imminent" narrative is so familiar. I don't see any probable outcome where Putin actually invades. He's playing chess (maybe Kasparov is advising him).
> 
> This is an interesting perspective


A word of advice: do not mix news report with opinion columns on newspapers (which for instance is the case of what you shared here). Those are two completely different things and someone not paying attention enough may think that those opinions are from journalists. Anyone invited for that purpose,  scholars, politicians, anyone who can write good enough about certain topic, can have their opinion on a newspaper.
As far as reports go they have been telling the public whatever politicians say and not like you suggested "building the narrative". 
Cheers.


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## tomberyx (Feb 15, 2022)

What would happen if...

All soldiers would suddenly stop fighting in battle and respect and harmonize with their enemies?

Would it make sense if more than a million soldiers found a fraternal/peaceful solution than just one human at the top?

Would it make sense to compromise to live peacefully?

And what about love neighbor, what the Bible and other books show, why isn't that followed?

And why do we all (Volk)have a better solution than one in the  power Chair?

Who is really our enemy? Media? Internet? or the President? or are we too stupid to see that?

Why isn't a dialogue enough to solve problems?

Why are you forced to do something you don't want to do?

What does freedom actually mean and does everyone get it?

These questions (above) are just small signposts why Human has no power to answer them... No Answer means War...


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## Velorian (Feb 15, 2022)

There is no need for the US to get involved when we can't even take care of our own citizens.  Whenever the media bangs the wardrums it's for 2 reasons 1) a huge chunk of wealthy people make money off conflict 2)distraction from both media and politicians not doing anything to financially improve the average persons life.


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## Xzi (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Based on what? Lies of "RUSSIANS INVADERS UKRAINE" Yeah, no, we're done here since this is just going in circles.


Do you have the memory of a goldfish?  Russia _already _invaded Ukraine to annex Crimea.  Putin got away with that scot-free, so of course he has no hangups about invading the rest of the country now.

On that note, it seems Vlad is dropping the whole NATO excuse now and moving on to bigger lies, such as claiming there's an invisible genocide happening in the areas of Ukraine that he just so happens to want to invade.

The US is *not* going to get involved directly with a war against Russia, best we can do is send Ukraine weapons. Nor should we need to get involved directly for people to empathize with the peaceful citizens of Ukraine who just want to go on living their daily lives.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 15, 2022)

Szabon said:


> A word of advice: do not mix news report with opinion columns on newspapers (which for instance is the case of what you shared here). Those are two completely different things and someone not paying attention enough may think that those opinions are from journalists. Anyone invited for that purpose,  scholars, politicians, anyone who can write good enough about certain topic, can have their opinion on a newspaper.
> As far as reports go they have been telling the public whatever politicians say and not like you suggested "building the narrative".
> Cheers.



How patronising of you to assume I don't know what an opinion piece is, and how disingenuous of you to imply what I shared was somehow misrepresenting an opinion as fact. I literally called it an interesting perspective..  you know, another word for opinion.

It's also hilarious that you said corporate media are telling you whatever politicians say and yet that's somehow not a narrative. Are you sure you know the difference between real journalism and propaganda?


----------



## Szabon (Feb 15, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> How patronising of you to assume I don't know what an opinion piece is, and how disingenuous of you to imply what I shared was somehow misrepresenting an opinion as fact. I literally called it an interesting perspective..  you know, another word for opinion.
> 
> It's also hilarious that you said corporate media are telling you whatever politicians say and yet that's somehow not a narrative. Are you sure you know the difference between real journalism and propaganda?


Lol. Nevermind.


----------



## Citizen_404 (Feb 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Sounds like to me you're the one drinking kool aid and sucking dicks. Hey that's cool, you do you.
> "Actual leadership." pffffffffffffffffft hahahahahaha XD That's a good one I'll have to remember that on


Well, if you think sucking Putin's dick is leadership, I'd advise you to pull your head out of your ass ASAP.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Do you have the memory of a goldfish?  Russia _already _invaded Ukraine to annex Crimea.  Putin got away with that scot-free, so of course he has no hangups about invading the rest of the country now.
> 
> On that note, it seems Vlad is dropping the whole NATO excuse now and moving on to bigger lies, such as claiming there's an invisible genocide happening in the areas of Ukraine that he just so happens to want to invade.
> 
> The US is *not* going to get involved directly with a war against Russia, best we can do is send Ukraine weapons. Nor should we need to get involved directly for people to empathize with the peaceful citizens of Ukraine who just want to go on living their daily lives.


That was a revolution that seemed to get so big Ukraine and Russia both had to step in. I don't see any invasion.



Citizen_404 said:


> Well, if you think sucking Putin's dick is leadership, I'd advise you to pull your head out of your ass ASAP.


Dude your head is so far up your own ass that I'm surprised you're not choking to death on your own shit right now.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Look who's talking.


"I know you are but what am I" - BitMasterPlus


----------



## Xzi (Feb 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> That was a revolution that seemed to get so big Ukraine and Russia both had to step in. I don't see any invasion.


Revisionist history from a Putin apologist, why am I not surprised.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 16, 2022)

SG854 said:


> "I know you are but what am I" - BitMasterPlus


Still one of the best comebacks after all these years since it's inception.



Xzi said:


> Revisionist history from a Putin apologist, why am I not surprised.


Not sure what you got from me, but I don't like Putin, like at all. Doesn't mean I wanna start fights with foreign powers for no good reason. Just stating what's happened. I mean I know you and others think Putin and Russia is responsible for a lot of the evils of the world currently even though it's _another _such country's dictator and party that's responsible, but we can't talk about that now, can we?


----------



## Viri (Feb 16, 2022)

Just remember, Ukraine is an independent sovereign country, and doesn't just exist to be a buffer between Russia and the west. It's actually rather sad what is going on in eastern Ukraine.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Doesn't mean I wanna start fights with foreign powers for no good reason.


The US isn't starting this fight, nor would we be involved with it directly.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I mean I know you and others think Putin and Russia is responsible for a lot of the evils of the world currently even though it's _another _such country's dictator and party that's responsible, but we can't talk about that now, can we?


I sincerely have no idea what you're talking about.  Are you suggesting Ukraine has done anything to deserve these hostilities?  Because they most certainly have not.  This is about as black and white as scenarios get when it comes to geopolitics.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 16, 2022)

Ukraine biggest Clinton Foundation donor of 10 Million US

What do these people have in common?
Pelosi's son, Kerry's son, Romney's son, Biden's son

Hint Geolocation = Ukraine

They playing checkers and Putin is playing chess

Game Over! = 78


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Feb 16, 2022)

Ratings are down bigly for news channels cus Trump isn't president anymore (yet).

And Senile Biden is so boring literally nobody cares what he is rambling about today so the media need to sex up and ramp up tensions about war for views.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 16, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Ratings are down bigly for news channels cus Trump isn't president anymore (yet).
> 
> And Senile Biden is so boring literally nobody cares what he is rambling about today so the media need to sex up and ramp up tensions about war for views.


US media didn't amass 130,000 troops on Russia's border with Ukraine, so this is a throwaway take.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Feb 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> US media didn't amass 130,000 troops on Russia's border with Ukraine, so this is a throwaway take.


So? Countries flex their military strength literally every day. Why can't they put troops on their own border?

Unless you're going to pretend america doesn't float giant battleship freighters around the entire world.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 16, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> So? Countries flex their military strength literally every day. Why can't they put troops on their own border?


Because a few hundred troops can be handwaved away as a military exercise, but tens of thousands of troops is very blatantly a threat.  Same as it would be if the US amassed that many active duty military on either of its borders.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> Unless you're going to pretend america doesn't float giant battleship freighters around the entire world.


This might be relevant to a broader discussion on imperialism throughout history, but not at all to the discussion at hand.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This might be relevant to a broader discussion on imperialism throughout history, but not at all to the discussion at hand.



It's only not relevant because it's a land border, but you have to admit those giant battleships are a lot more capable than a whole bunch of soldiers.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The US isn't starting this fight, nor would we be involved with it directly.


No, it's the media and the current administration doing it.


Xzi said:


> I sincerely have no idea what you're talking about.  Are you suggesting Ukraine has done anything to deserve these hostilities?  Because they most certainly have not.  This is about as black and white as scenarios get when it comes to geopolitics.


Nope, not talking about Ukraine, but _another _country that we will bow down under soon if things keep going the way they do. But that's not relevant to this particular topic anyways.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Feb 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Because a few hundred troops can be handwaved away as a military exercise, but tens of thousands of troops is very blatantly a threat.  Same as it would be if the US amassed that many active duty military on either of its borders.
> 
> 
> This might be relevant to a broader discussion on imperialism throughout history, but not at all to the discussion at hand.



So basically it's ok when America does it


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Feb 16, 2022)

tomberyx said:


> What would happen if...
> 
> All soldiers would suddenly stop fighting in battle and respect and harmonize with their enemies?
> 
> ...


What you are basically describing, or at least partly is the Christmas Truce situation. I do not even know if its even a thing anymore but these days solders have far more on the line than the human element that represents them or the enemy. Chances are if they are in the military they have long since accepted, or in some cases are hoping to kill others in the name of their country's power.

Also added to the fact that things can be done remotely now and that further removes any human element from getting in the way of "what needs to be done".



Purple_Shyguy said:


> So? Countries flex their military strength literally every day. Why can't they put troops on their own border?
> 
> Unless you're going to pretend america doesn't float giant battleship freighters around the entire world.


Its almost like people forgot the Cold War existed or something..


----------



## Dakitten (Feb 16, 2022)

Citizen_404 said:


> Well, if you think sucking Putin's dick is leadership, I'd advise you to pull your head out of your ass ASAP.


To be fair, Bits does seem like a Russian troll bot, so that might just be where it holsters. Can't fault him for putting his mouth where the money is!


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Feb 16, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> To be fair, Bits does seem like a Russian troll bot, so that might just be where it holsters. Can't fault him for putting his mouth where the money is!



You sound like a troll Clinton bot


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This might be relevant to a broader discussion on imperialism throughout history, but not at all to the discussion at hand.


USA indeed move troops and ships in a threatening meaner, and they do that every single year. Very often they do that near Taiwan for example.

Speaking of Taiwan: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/8/us-approves-support-deal-for-taiwan-patriot-missiles

So yeah, USA is the worst offender when it comes to official aggression, but that do not means that what Russia is doing is right, it just waive more weight on international community than USA actions for whatever reason.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> USA indeed move troops and ships in a threatening meaner, and they do that every single year. Very often they do that near Taiwan for example.
> 
> Speaking of Taiwan: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/8/us-approves-support-deal-for-taiwan-patriot-missiles
> 
> So yeah, USA is the worst offender when it comes to official aggression, but that do not means that what Russia is doing is right, it just waive more weight on international community than USA actions for whatever reason.


..yes USA have been horrible aggressors all thought out history
but that situations is a bit different as
 Taiwan not only  invites  of USA themselves for Military  training but also part of a defense treaty they have to patrol the area
in NOO WAYY is Ukraine Inviting Russian military

Taiwan inviting USA =/= Russian Threatening Ukraine


----------



## Dakitten (Feb 16, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> You sound like a troll Clinton bot


No u du! Seriously, you can do better than bringing up centrist hacks that haven't had the White House in decades. Heck, Bernie Bot at least targets the left and has alliteration to boot! Raise your standards~

That being said, it is kinda rich to see the American political right shift to non-involvement leanings after leading so many campaigns throughout recent history. I guess the hippies were all Nixon supporters the whole time...


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 16, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> It feels like news media has been trying really hard to escalate things. The cynical part of me suspects they are acutely aware how a war could boost their otherwise falling viewership.


Either nothing more than another cold war will happen or just a very limited exchange for both the US and Russian governments to justify their shortcomings to their own people.

Ukraine rightfully belongs to Russia and NATO should butt out anyway.


----------



## alevan (Feb 16, 2022)

Ukraine was a test built from pieces that didn't match. Half of the country is made up of torn pieces from its neighbors. Different ethnicities were enclosed between the EU and Russia.

In recent years, the majority of Ukrainians have begun to assimilate the Russian ethnic group with increasing austerity, but with the generalization of laws, all ethnic groups have been affected by this process. In addition, the mood in the areas inhabited by Ukrainians is quite racist, thanks to the media and government.

In my opinion, the country should return areas inhabited by ethnic groups to its neighbors. This would mean that it would voluntarily dispose of much of its territory, relinquishing the resources there, but re-establishing borders would eliminate ethnic tensions in the country and allow it to focus on construction.

All of Russia's legal bases to oppose Ukraine's accession to the EU would disappear.

It is a pity that this would never happen in today's world.


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## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Either nothing more than another cold war will happen or just a very limited exchange for both the US and Russian governments to justify their shortcomings to their own people.
> 
> Ukraine rightfully belongs to Russia and NATO should butt out anyway.


lol what? that is completely stupid and Wrong in so Many levels lol
 1. Ukraine was part of the USSR not Russia.
2. Ukraine was Bound Warsaw Pact,  literal the same thing as NATO
3. The Moment USSR dissolved the Warsaw Pact became VOID.
3.   The population of Ukraine voted overwhelmingly for independence in the referendum of December 1, 1991.

By that Logic MEXICO has claim to Texas, AZ, NV and CA.  
and ENGLAND has claim to the whole Eastern seaboard


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## Glyptofane (Feb 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> lol what? that is completely stupid and Wrong in so Many levels lol
> 1. Ukraine was part of the USSR not Russia.
> 2. Ukraine was Bound Warsaw Pact,  literal the same thing as NATO
> 3. The Moment USSR dissolved the Warsaw Pact became VOID.
> ...


Well, alright then. If you really feel that strongly about it then here you go:

https://www.usa.gov/join-military


----------



## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Well, alright then. If you really feel that strongly about it then here you go:
> 
> https://www.usa.gov/join-military



what a weird way to say your Pro-MExican takeover of American's Southern boarder

but weird any time, logic and facts get introduce you can quickly tell who just BS Trolls, they want to avoid facts..

so Your argument, is that IF people have a issue with Russian taking over Ukriane then they should "join the Military" to have the US fight Russia but at the same time Complain that US is fighting Russia?


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> what a weird way to say your Pro-MExican takeover of American's Southern boarder
> 
> but weird any time, logic and facts get introduce you can quickly tell who just BS Trolls, they want to avoid facts..


The southern border actually does seem like a lost cause now that you mention it. With that logic, maybe we should just take an equal part of Canada to make up for it?

So you just wanted other people's kids to die for your twisted utopian vision, got it.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> The southern border actually does seem like a lost cause now that you mention it.
> 
> So you just wanted other people's kids to die for your twisted utopian vision, got it.


You would allow innocent people to be hostilely taken over by a Country because its leader is mad that it whats to play with another Group.
The Choices are not 1. allow Russia to take over Ukriane or 2. War. That just the FearMongler speaking.


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> You would allow innocent people to be hostilely taken over by a Country because its leader is mad that it whats to play with another Group.
> The Choices are not 1. allow Russia to take over Ukriane or 2. War. That just the FearMongler speaking.


That's just it. Our attempts to keep "democracy" in Ukraine and in the region generally is what maintains the hostility and violence. I really doubt Russia is just going to go in and wreck the place like we and our proxies do to the Middle East.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..yes USA have been horrible aggressors all thought out history
> but that situations is a bit different as
> Taiwan not only  invites  of USA themselves for Military  training but also part of a defense treaty they have to patrol the area
> in NOO WAYY is Ukraine Inviting Russian military
> ...


Cuba once invited Soviet Union for an alliance, and asked for some missiles for "self defense" so that was OK then? Obviously not. (Taiwan was just a lose example btw, there are tons).

Ukraine vs Russia is indeed a question where Ukraine need political aid of international community, I 100% support that. What I told in response to other guy up there is that USA is not any better than Russia. Both are ruthless imperialist nations that just want to expand their power with no regard for anything.

And don't even tell me that every nation is that way, because it is not.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> That's just it. Our attempts to keep "democracy" in Ukraine and in the region generally is what maintains the hostility and violence. I really doubt Russia is just going to go in and wreck the place like we and our proxies do to the Middle East.


... guess your coma from 2014  is doing you a diservice 

This is Ukriane in 2014




This is Ukriane NoW. YOU see the color Change... That when* RUSSIA "went  in and wreck the place"*


----------



## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Cuba once invited Soviet Union for an alliance, and asked for some missiles for "self defense" so that was OK then? Obviously not. (Taiwan was just a lose example btw, there are tons).
> 
> Ukraine vs Russia is indeed a question where Ukraine need political aid of international community, I 100% support that. What I told in response to other guy up there is that USA is not any better than Russia. Both are ruthless imperialist nations that just want to expand their power with no regard for anything.
> 
> And don't even tell me that every nation is that way, because it is not.


which is why  Ukraine was looking for Aid from NATO (NOT USA). Turkey ( Nato Member) was the one of the biggest helpers of Ukriane at the moment. the issue is that Mother Russia wanted any and all  help or support to go thru them first for the ok


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 16, 2022)

By wreck I mean entire cities in ruins, thousands dead or in camps, I suppose. I would imagine there would inevitably be _some_ of that.

I don't really have anymore jokes on the matter except of course that we can't really afford to keep policing the entire planet, which is stupid anyway, especially after wrecking our own economy with the moronic virus hoax. Maybe it really is the right thing to do as you suggest, but we can't save everyone and that's not even what our government is going for anyway. It's another grift.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 16, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> By wreck I mean entire cities in ruins, thousands dead or in camps, I suppose. I would imagine there would inevitably be _some_ of that.


of you Mean Ruins like




(rubble of the Luhansk,Ukraine in 2014)
In Ruins of Ukrainian Town, Residents Crave Food, Water and Peace​


Glyptofane said:


> It's another grift.


of course it is.. the issue is who's grifting who


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> of you Mean Ruins like
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe, I was trying to find some widespread/aerial photos, but had some difficulty finding more than one of multiple buildings in the same shot. Google would maybe yield better search results?

Empires have apparently been fighting over Ukraine for hundreds or even thousands of years. I guess it really comes down to being a strategic location and point of convergence for the region. Like certain other places, it's seemingly never going to end. It's this idea that it's all about protecting human rights when we have our own political prisoners among other abuses that gets to me.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 16, 2022)

Nothing is going to happen. just the west creating a storm in a glass of water.
News are war mongering


----------



## Xzi (Feb 16, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> It's only not relevant because it's a land border, but you have to admit those giant battleships are a lot more capable than a whole bunch of soldiers.


It'd be relevant if the US had multiple battleships stacked up against another country's border right now, but we don't.  A single battleship floating around is just a reminder of our presence in the region for both our allies and enemies.  Whether anyone here approves or disapproves of that tactic is again irrelevant to the conversation at hand.  Putin is playing the role of conqueror here, and that has almost no modern-day equivalents to draw on.



lokomelo said:


> USA indeed move troops and ships in a threatening meaner, and they do that every single year. Very often they do that near Taiwan for example.
> 
> Speaking of Taiwan: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/8/us-approves-support-deal-for-taiwan-patriot-missiles
> 
> So yeah, USA is the worst offender when it comes to official aggression, but that do not means that what Russia is doing is right, it just waive more weight on international community than USA actions for whatever reason.


The Taiwan situation is similar to Ukraine in that China has been constantly and consistently threatening their status as an independent nation.  For that matter, China doesn't recognize Taiwan's sovereignty at all, which is wrong.  Do I think the US should go to war with China over Taiwan?  Absolutely not, but nor do I think China should be able be able to march into Taiwan with zero resistance and murder whoever they want.  Both the US and the world obviously have a bit more investment in Taiwan as opposed to Ukraine, since the former is among the largest microchip manufacturers.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 17, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Nothing is going to happen. just the west creating a storm in a glass of water.
> News are war mongering


Their narrative fell apart so they are trying reall hard to start WW III.  It's to late and what follows is exposure...


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Their narrative fell apart so they are trying reall hard to start WW III.  It's to late and what follows is exposure...


What follows is a lose-lose situation for Russia, since Putin just pulled a Streisand Effect on NATO.  Either he invades Ukraine and gives the best marketing pitch ever for why other European nations need to join it, or he withdraws and demonstrates that NATO is a strong deterrent even when they don't fire a single shot.  He's stuck between a rock and a hard place while wearing a dunce hat.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> What follows is a lose-lose situation for Russia, since Putin just pulled a Streisand Effect on NATO.  Either he invades Ukraine and gives the best marketing pitch ever for why other European nations need to join it, or he withdraws and demonstrates that NATO is a strong deterrent even when they don't fire a single shot.


This is a joint operation between 78 countries.  Putin n friends are getting rid of UN (and more) corruption, that's what this is all about, this is his window.  Kassarian mafia cant stop military from 78 countries.  They have all been exposed.  Luscius trust / luceferian trust is being dismantled on a worldwide scale.  The game is over for them.  They are trying to spin this like always but the truth always circles back.

Remember the revolution will not be televised. (Not when the real terrorists control the media that is).

No one has ever complied themselves out of totalitarianism

Once government acquires power it never lets go voluntarily


----------



## CMDreamer (Feb 17, 2022)

I'm going to get a lot of bad comments but I don't care, this is what I think and believe and what I'm going to stand up for.

To all ukrainians out there, take a look at what U.S. have done in all their political and war history, Afghanistan being the most recent example and think twice before allowing them to get into your territory, and get their noses into your political matters.

U.S. doesn't take a step without waiting something in return, and most of the time it means allowing them to take your freedom in many ways.

U.S. belief is that they have the ethical/moral right to impose sanctions to everyone that have taken a step away from their control, but not everyone is willing to lower their head and allow them to take over control.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> This is a joint operation between 78 countries.


Sure bud, and the Earth is flat. /s

Putin is all alone in this pathetic attempt to divert attention away from his failings as leader at home in Russia.  In the most simplistic terms possible, his dick is limp and he's staring down Ukraine like it's extra-strength Viagra.



CMDreamer said:


> I'm going to get a lot of bad comments but I don't care, this is what I think and believe and what I'm going to stand up for.
> 
> To all ukrainians out there, take a look at what U.S. have done in all their political and war history, Afghanistan being the most recent example and think twice before allowing them to get into your territory, and get their noses into your political matters.
> 
> ...


No idea why people keep bringing the US into this.  The US' stance is that Ukraine can do whatever the hell they want in regard to NATO.  Only Russia is trying to force their hand on that decision by threatening military aggression.  Therefore the only choice to be made here is whether or not Ukraine wants to bow down before an ex-KGB dictator, and they obviously do not.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Sure bud, and the Earth is flat. /s
> 
> Putin is all alone in this pathetic attempt to divert attention away from his failings as leader at home in Russia.  In the most simplistic terms possible, his dick is limp and he's staring down Ukraine like it's extra-strength Viagra.
> 
> ...


CLUELESS yet run your mouth like you know.  Funny and pathetic at the same time.  Really made me laugh out loud.  Your just regurgitating what the media is showing you BUD.  Shit can be right in front of you yet still believe other shit, good luck with that.  Just wait n see what happens next or wait for the media to tell you what happened LOL.

Hint: 40/47 Tesla starlink satellites were destroyed....And no it wasn't the magnetic storm the media is telling you.  We are already at war and have been!

The Crown ruling is OVER!  No matter witch way they turn THEY ARE SCREWED!


Those who know know.


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> CLUELESS yet run your mouth like you know.  Funny and pathetic at the same time.  Really made me laugh out loud.  Your just regurgitating what the media is showing you BUD.  Shit can be right in front of you yet still believe other shit, good luck with that.  Just wait n see what happens next or wait for the media to tell you what happened LOL.
> 
> Hint: 40/47 Tesla starlink satellites were destroyed....And no it wasn't the magnetic storm the media is telling you.  We are already at war and have been!
> 
> ...


There's several of these guys here who are essentially living embodiments of the media as I'm sure you're already aware. It's amusing, but also scary in a way. Don't let them get you running in circles.


----------



## rantex92 (Feb 17, 2022)

Politicthreads ... Politicthreads never changes


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> CLUELESS yet run your mouth like you know.


Says the dude that talks about geopolitics like it's a D&D campaign.  There's no good time or place for looney conspiracy theories, and that goes triple for a serious discussion about Russian imperialism.  The lives of men, women, and children are on the line, your unhealthy moronic obsession with Hillary Clinton or whoever can take a back seat for a while.



Glyptofane said:


> There's several of these guys here who are essentially living embodiments of the media as I'm sure you're already aware. It's amusing, but also scary in a way. Don't let them get you running in circles.


I could say the same of you and Donnie-Burger in relation to RT.  You're fucking defending imperialism, and if you're willing to defend it in this scenario, you'd be willing to defend it in any scenario.  Excuse the turn of phrase, but wake up sheeple.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Says the dude that talks about geopolitics like it's a D&D campaign.  There's no good time or place for looney conspiracy theories, and that goes triple for a serious discussion about Russian imperialism.  The lives of men, women, and children are on the line, your unhealthy moronic obsession with Hillary Clinton or whoever can take a back seat for a while.
> 
> 
> I could say the same of you and Donnie-Burger in relation to RT.  You're fucking defending imperialism, and if you're willing to defend it in this scenario, you'd be willing to defend it in any scenario.  Excuse the turn of phrase, but wake up sheeple.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


>


I'll take this to mean that every one of your posts in this thread were typed out while drunk.  It would explain so very much.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'll take this to mean that every one of your posts in this thread were typed out while drunk.  It would explain so very much.


Everything that Biden tries to do completely fails.  It seems like he's setup or something?  Now look what's happening in the Ukraine.  The entire narrative is falling apart.  Actually the head of Selinskie's servant of the people parliamentary faction in Ukraine.  Blames the foreign media for spreading the fake news and he calls it the fake news about a Russian invasion.  Now think about that.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Everything that Biden tries to do completely fails.


Except living in your head rent-free, apparently, because his role in this whole thing is negligible.



Donnie-Burger said:


> Now look what's happening in the Ukraine. The entire narrative is falling apart.


Putin claimed Russia was pulling back troops much earlier today, satellite images show they added about 7,000 more troops to the border instead.  So you've simply gotten the wool pulled over your eyes by a different narrative.

The entire world is rooting for a peaceful solution, so nobody "loses" if Putin does decide to withdraw, but at the same time he has a colossal ego to satiate.  Withdrawing now would look weak from a certain (stupid) point of view.


----------



## Stepperer (Feb 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> By that Logic MEXICO has claim to Texas, AZ, NV and CA.
> and ENGLAND has claim to the whole Eastern seaboard



What's wrong with that logic, I cannot understand? Texas was claimed by USA by the right of force alone, and much more territory along with it. Russia claimed Ukraine to form USSR. So it's down to USA returns Texas or USA stays out of Russia's land affairs


----------



## Stepperer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> satellite images show they added about 7,000 more troops to the border instead



Can we see this images? Or it is just "highly likely"?


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Stepperer said:


> Can we see this images? Or it is just "highly likely"?


There are tons of static images from various outlets, no live feeds that I can find.  Probably not something they'd let the general public see, as these are likely military satellites.

There are also reports that many of Ukraine's computer networks have been hacked, which is a likely indicator of more Russian aggression coming soon.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The lives of men, women, and children are on the line


Thank you for your service. 

Good working theories about the conspiracies that be are probably more valuable than the obvious commercial advertisements (dressed as "news").  How many more decades are people going to let the media gaslight them into buying wars--both domestic and foreign?  What will people in the future call this "progressive" religion?


----------



## pwjpssdfvqyuhweuxx (Feb 17, 2022)

just let them take over Ukraine already.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Good working theories about the conspiracies that be are probably more valuable than the obvious commercial advertisements (dressed as "news"). How many more decades are people going to let the media gaslight them into buying wars--both domestic and foreign? What will people in the future call this "progressive" religion?


I don't know how badly you flunked geography, but "we," as in the US, are not going to be joining the war one way or another.  And again, the media doesn't have the power to order over 120,000 Russian troops to the Ukrainian border, so pretending they're making a conflict up out of thin air suggests you just want to lie to yourself.

All politically right-leaning people seem to have this creepy obsession with Putin, to the point of fantasizing that he's somehow the perfect libertarian leader and not just another piece of shit oligarch that lied, cheated, stole, and murdered his way to the top.  It's really quite baffling, especially when coupled with their attempts to simultaneously resurrect McCarthyism.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I don't know how badly you flunked geography, but "we," as in the US, are not going to be joining the war one way or another.



You are saying that the geographical position of the US prevents it from participating in war overseas.



Xzi said:


> And again, the media doesn't have the power to order over 120,000 Russian troops to the Ukrainian border



I see you have failed to recognize the power of the media.  The ironic part of it is that what you are saying is a symptom of being gaslit by the media.



Xzi said:


> All politically right-leaning people seem to have this creepy obsession with Putin, to the point of fantasizing that he's somehow the perfect libertarian leader and not just another piece of shit oligarch that lied, cheated, stole, and murdered his way to the top.



Relevance?  Are you accusing me of being right-leaning because I think your country is a hypocritical joke?


----------



## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are saying that the geographical position of the US prevents it from participating in war overseas.


That is not what I'm saying, I'm saying that we will choose not to get involved directly in a war against Russia.  If they invade Ukraine, it's obvious who the bad guys are, and any/all sanctions against Russia will have full support.



tabzer said:


> I see you have failed to recognize the power of the media. The ironic part of it is that what you are saying is a symptom of being gaslit by the media.


Lmao, so they're just photoshopping every one of these satellite images, that right?  Jesus, the mental gymnastics somebody who gets all their news from Facebook will do to avoid admitting they're wrong about _anything._



tabzer said:


> Relevance? Are you accusing me of being right-leaning because I think your country is a hypocritical joke?


I _know_ you're right-leaning, that's been well-established over multiple threads in this forum by now. If you're so ashamed of it, you could always...stop supporting authoritarism? Just a thought.


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## Stepperer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> There are tons of static images from various outlets,



Like photoshop, for instance? )))


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

Stepperer said:


> Like photoshop, for instance? )))


Seriously, the Putin ball fondling is _weird_ bro. The man himself never even denied amassing troops on the border, he's only lied about withdrawing.

For that matter, he's gone on TV and made blatant threats against not only Ukraine, but all NATO member nations.  There's no possible way to spin the identity of the aggressor in this scenario, so just stop the pathetic attempts at it.


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## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That is not what I'm saying, I'm saying that we will not choose to get involved directly in a war against Russia. If they invade Ukraine, it's obvious who the bad guys are, and any/all sanctions against Russia will have full support.



You said it was an issue of geography.  Now it's an issue of politics, and you are claiming that US soldiers and hardware will not get involved?



Xzi said:


> Lmao, so they're just photoshopping every one of these satellite images, that right? Jesus, the mental gymnastics somebody who gets all their news from Facebook will do to avoid admitting they're wrong about _anything._



I don't know anything about satellite images.  I'm saying they have successfully driven your attention to get enthusiastic war instead of fixing your own problems at home.  Maybe the capitalist inside you is drooling at the prospects of another endless conflict to "support".



Xzi said:


> I _know_ you're right-leaning, that's been well-established over multiple threads in this forum by now. If you're so ashamed of it, you could always...stop supporting authoritarism? Just a thought.



I'm actually pretty libertarian and somewhat left-leaning.  I've argued against mandates and the authoritarian predilection of American politics as a whole.

I like what "right-winger" Russell Brand says.

Don't be an idiot and mistake him as a "source" like a lot of illiterate people here do.  He's merely a commentator whose format is to present a source, comment, present a source, comment.



He also does one on the Ukraine situation, which is a little more illuminating than your interest in copulating with male genitalia.


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## Stepperer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> so just stop the pathetic attempts at it.



I never made any_ pathetic_ attempts, mind you. Only reasonable ones. Maybe you should get off your high horse more often? Just a thought


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You said it was an issue of geography. Now it's an issue of politics, and you are claiming that US soldiers will not get involved?


Ukraine is our ally, but all we can do is provide arms support.  A direct war with Russia is obviously to be avoided at all costs, because Putin is actually and truly insane.  Dude would probably unleash a nuke or two, and we'd just have to hope they were duds to avoid total mutual annihilation.



tabzer said:


> I'm saying they have successfully driven your attention to get enthusiastic war instead of fixing your own problems at home. Maybe the capitalist inside you is drooling at the prospects of another endless conflict to "support".


Fuck no, I want a peaceful resolution to this.  But everything you said certainly applies to Putin: he's looking for distractions from his problems ruling his serfs at home, and he thinks conflict will help Russia economically (hint: it won't).


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## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> he thinks conflict will help Russia economically.



The US and Russia have a lot in common.


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> The US and Russia have a lot in common.


Yep, only difference is that our oligarchs reside in the corporate world, while Putin has a much smaller roundtable of oligarchs in government.  China has both types of oligarchs.  All three nations also just so happen to be hyper-capitalist, so take that as you will.


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## Searinox (Feb 17, 2022)

I'm really tired of the shitting the USSR and Russia have been at. We can't reunite with Moldova because they created a frozen conflict there and continue with impunity to do whatever they want to their neighbors. They trampled over Georgia's north and now they're causing trouble with our eastern neighbor. We're all too familiar with these stupid games and fed up with them. Putin is due for a fat lip. If he invades he'll find Afghanistan 2.0 and we'll be happy to funnel military aid to their guerilla troops. And should he be dumb enough to fuck around these parts, neither we nor the Ukrainians will be afraid, not of sword, bullet, nor atom.


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## lordofcombo (Feb 17, 2022)

I think Putin overstimate Russia's economical power to sustain a long cold war with Americans,and I'm seriouslly thinking he's signing his death sentence by targeting Ukrainian.But as usual,he's just bluffing.
Ukraine is a US Ally and that's something he can't do nothing about,it's time he leave the presidency,he's giving me Boris Yeltsin vibe.


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## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Yep, only difference is that our oligarchs reside in the corporate world, while Putin has a much smaller roundtable of oligarchs in government.  China has both types of oligarchs.  All three nations also just so happen to be hyper-capitalist, so take that as you will.


The way that sounds to me is that the oligarchy behind the economic interest of America, for the time being, is internationally embedded and thus, pervasive to geopolitical constraints.  They are available to the highest bidder and would throw the US, and its people, under the bus the moment it becomes an advantage.   America appears compromised by this system of governance.  It's not morality driving the narrative.


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> The way that sounds to me is that the oligarchy behind the economic interest of America, for the time being, is internationally embedded and thus, pervasive to geopolitical constraints.  They are available to the highest bidder and would throw the US, and its people, under the bus the moment it becomes an advantage.   America appears compromised by this system of governance.  It's not morality driving the narrative.


For the moment they do have some restraints on their power, namely that while conflict is a boon for some industries' profits, it's a detriment to others.  Weapons manufacturers sure did keep the grift in Afghanistan/Iraq going for quite a while though.

China's oligarchs have the most influence on the world economically, as they represent the largest consumer base by far.


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## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Weapons manufacturers sure did keep the grift in Afghanistan/Iraq going for quite a while though.



Exactly, and they are back at it again.  They definitely do profit off of this "opportunity" with Russia, and they have already demonstrated contribution to the rhetoric.

Of course, the response you gave is logical, but it doesn't exactly say what we should be paying attention to or why.

I really don't think that America is in any (moral) position to have a say, since it apparently is still stuck in 1865.  They are probably anti-Russian simply because Americans are racist right-wingers looking for war.  I'm sorry that would include you by extension, but that is the current acceptable pathos for rhetoric.


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> They definitely do profit off of this "opportunity" with Russia, and they have already demonstrated contribution to the rhetoric.


They do, but weapons manufacturers don't put out press statements.  Putin's rhetoric is what's causing alarm, nobody else's.



tabzer said:


> I really don't think that America is in any (moral) position to have a say, since it apparently is still stuck in 1865. They are probably anti-Russian simply because Americans are racist right-wingers looking for war. I'm sorry that would include you by extension, but that is the current acceptable pathos for rhetoric.


Lol the racist right-wingers are a very loud minority, but they've loved Putin basically ever since Fox News first came on the air.  Besides, modern American racism does not extend to other white people, regardless of their nationality.


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> All politically right-leaning people seem to have this creepy obsession with Putin, to the point of fantasizing that he's somehow the perfect libertarian leader and not just another piece of shit oligarch that lied, cheated, stole, and murdered his way to the top.  It's really quite baffling, especially when coupled with their attempts to simultaneously resurrect McCarthyism.


Oh really, then why is it all I see is left-wingers talk about Russia, Putin, and "the Kremlin" nonstop as if that's where the source of all evil and corruption in the world is? And you claim the right is trying to resurrect McCarthyism when it seems like the left is clearly doing it more? And this is not me "defending Russia" or Putin, I don't like either, but I just don't really care about what goes on over there and are more concerned about the country I was born and are currently living in. If Putin really did lied, cheated, stole, and murdered his way to the top, which he could've done, let the Russia people deal with it if they don't want him as a leader anymore and start a revolution for all I care. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't get involved in this Ukraine BS, and somehow people took it as me defending Russia and Putin as I'm a secret Russian agent. Damn, what a jump in assumption. I guess I better call it quits and turn in my badge to the red motherland because a couple of basement dwelling nerds found be out comrade!

You know, it's funny, but it almost seems to me like that Putin and Russia is living in your own head rent free rather than me, but that's impossible, you're right and I'm just a Russian bot created by the ultimate red superpower Russia. You know nothing about me outside of the posts I made here but you completely got my number comrade.



Xzi said:


> Lol the racist right-wingers are a very loud minority, but they've loved Putin basically ever since Fox News first came on the air.  Besides, modern American racism does not extend to other white people, regardless of their nationality.


Ah yes, those damn racist right wingers again. Because the left isn't at all racist and focuses all their time and energy on race and gender and trying to measure the worth of a person based on those two things.

You're a racist, and based on the freedom convoy spreading around the world since it's started in Canada, freedom loving "racist" right-wingers may not be such a minority, so I suggest you shut your own god damn mouth before you start to choke on your own foot and actually learn what's actually happening in the world around you, otherwise continue being an arrogant and ignorant ass for all I care.


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## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They do, but weapons manufacturers don't put out press statements. Putin's rhetoric is what's causing alarm, nobody else's.



Lol.  The hell they don't.  Raytheon and Lockheed Martin have been riling up their investors with the "news".  I take it you didn't watch the Ukraine vid I linked.  Your loss.



Xzi said:


> Besides, modern American racism does not extend to other white people, regardless of their nationality.



From the outside it looks like America's racial problems aren't limited to white people.  It looks like a hodgepodge of race wars.  I was trying to demonstrate the faulty rhetoric that your media likes to use, which Canada seems to be cranking to 11.


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh really, then why is it all I see is left-wingers talk about Russia, Putin, and "the Kremlin" nonstop as if that's where the source of all evil and corruption in the world is?


Need I remind you that the Democratic party is, by and large, a capitalist center-right party?  That said, it shouldn't require explanation as to why Russia threatening war against a peaceful country minding their own business is newsworthy/buzzworthy.



BitMasterPlus said:


> And you claim the right is trying to resurrect McCarthyism when it seems like the left is clearly doing it more?


McCarthyism is a mindless crusade against communism and socialism (which are themselves leftist ideologies), Russia hasn't been either of these things for over half a century.



BitMasterPlus said:


> All I'm saying is that we shouldn't get involved in this Ukraine BS


We can't and won't be getting involved directly, I've lost count of how many times I've had to repeat that.  Ukraine is a US ally, however, and abandoning them entirely to the wolves would be a terrible look.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Ah yes, those damn racist right wingers again. Because the left isn't at all racist and focuses all their time and energy on race and gender and trying to measure the worth of a person based on those two things.
> 
> You're a racist, and based on the freedom convoy spreading around the world since it's started in Canada, freedom loving "racist" right-wingers may not be such a minority, so I suggest you shut your own god damn mouth before you start to choke on your own foot and actually learn what's actually happening in the world around you, otherwise continue being an arrogant and ignorant ass for all I care.









tabzer said:


> Lol. The hell they don't. Raytheon and Lockheed Martin have been riling up their investors with the "news". I take it you didn't watch the Ukraine vid I linked. Your loss.


Getting giddy over their stock market gains is not the same as releasing a press statement to the general public.  For the most part, they'd rather the general public forget they exist at all.



tabzer said:


> From the outside it looks like America's racial problems aren't limited to white people. It looks like a hodgepodge of race wars. I was trying to demonstrate the faulty rhetoric that your media likes to use, which Canada seems to be cranking to 11.


Our biggest race-related problems come from our police force.  Not too surprising since they get about the same amount of training in the US as McDonald's fry cooks.


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## tabzer (Feb 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Getting giddy over their stock market gains is not the same as releasing a press statement to the general public. For the most part, they'd rather the general public forget they exist at all.



You appear to be doing everything you can to look away from the convenience that the American war racket affords economically and to commercial interests--from "leading" politicians to major media players.  The video is like 12 minutes long and will probably cause you to change your tone.


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## Xzi (Feb 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You appear to be doing everything you can to look away from the convenience that the American war racket affords economically and to commercial interests--from "leading" politicians to major media players.  The video is like 12 minutes long and will probably cause you to change your tone.



No offense, but I don't need Russell Brand, of all people, to interpret news and current events for me.  Putin has explicitly threatened to turn the entire continent of Europe into a bloody battleground, so yes, we know that he and other oligarchs like him would gladly walk us ass-backwards into WW3 if given the opportunity.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Need I remind you that the Democratic party is, by and large, a capitalist center-right party?  That said, it shouldn't require explanation as to why Russia threatening war against a peaceful country minding their own business is newsworthy/buzzworthy.


No it ain't, and that statement alone tells me and others how misinformed you if you truly think that.


Xzi said:


> McCarthyism is a mindless crusade against communism and socialism (which are themselves leftist ideologies), Russia hasn't been either of these things for over half a century.


Duh. So why is the left trying to resurrect it.


Xzi said:


> We can't and won't be getting involved directly, I've lost count of how many times I've had to repeat that.  Ukraine is a US ally, however, and abandoning them entirely to the wolves would be a terrible look.


Could've fooled me with past statements, plus, getting involved in anyway is getting involved. We're sending troops to their border.


Xzi said:


> View attachment 298544


Is that a picture of you as a baby? I hope you're still cute looking now as you were back then for your sake.


----------



## CMDreamer (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Sure bud, and the Earth is flat. /s
> 
> Putin is all alone in this pathetic attempt to divert attention away from his failings as leader at home in Russia.  In the most simplistic terms possible, his dick is limp and he's staring down Ukraine like it's extra-strength Viagra.
> 
> ...


 And which might be the U.S.' opinion about México, Canada and for that matter Cuba to allow Russia to create military bases on their territory?

Do you think U.S. will be gladly accepting them?

Cuba still has U.S. sanctions from long ago, all related to Russian-Cuban relations.

U.S. government is at the richest people's service, "we the poeple" has long ago lost its real meaning.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> No it ain't


We've got a grand total of two self-proclaimed democratic socialists in government.  The other several hundred representatives in the Democratic party are all unashamedly hyper-capitalist, and have very often voted with Republicans.  It's just a different set of corporations that pulls the Democratic party's strings, as opposed to the obvious oil and weapons lobbyists that pull the Republican party's strings.  Center-right versus far-right, the illusion of choice leading us slowly down an increasingly authoritarian path.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Duh. So why is the left trying to resurrect it.


Don't play dumb. Right-wing media does nothing but bitch about imaginary "cultural Marxism."  You could probably recite a lot of their talking points by memory for me.



BitMasterPlus said:


> We're sending troops to their border.


We're keeping a presence in the region, yes, a presence we already had.  You'd know we're not sending troops to Ukraine if you had actually read the article.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Is that a picture of you as a baby? I hope you're still cute looking now as you were back then for your sake.


That was the best TLDR I could make for your statement.  I didn't even name anyone here specifically when referring to "right-wing racists," but your reflexive instinct to jump to their defense is quite telling.



CMDreamer said:


> U.S. government is at the richest people's service, "we the poeple" has long ago lost its real meaning.


The richest person on Earth, if we're counting dark money, is Vladimir Putin.  Though yes, if Trump had won the election (god forbid), he would've told the world that Ukraine already belongs to Russia and let Vlad waltz right in and take it.  So it really is a flip of the coin in terms of how the US will respond to crises like this...our democracy is far from stable at the moment.


----------



## smf (Feb 18, 2022)

lordofcombo said:


> I think Putin overstimate Russia's economical power to sustain a long cold war with Americans,and I'm seriouslly thinking he's signing his death sentence by targeting Ukrainian.But as usual,he's just bluffing.
> Ukraine is a US Ally and that's something he can't do nothing about,it's time he leave the presidency,he's giving me Boris Yeltsin vibe.



I think you might be underestimating him and overestimating the Americans.

But we will see.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No offense, but I don't need Russell Brand, of all people, to interpret news and current events for me.  Putin has explicitly threatened to turn the entire continent of Europe into a bloody battleground, so yes, we know that he and other oligarchs like him would gladly walk us ass-backwards into WW3 if given the opportunity.


Oh well, I tried.  You'd be surprised at how much smarter he is than you.  The main point is the news that he presents.  The punchlines write themselves.  If looks like you just want to tell everyone your version of reality and listen to no one.  You've already said things that are factually wrong and pointing them out doesn't appear to cause any correction.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Oh well, I tried.  You'd be surprised at how much smarter he is than you.  The main point, is the news that he presents.  the punchlines write themselves.  You've already said several things that are factually wrong.


Brand seems to have set himself up as the poor man's Joe Rogan.  And Joe Rogan was already the poor man's Rush Limbaugh.  So if I'm "factually wrong" according to his "facts," I'll take that as a compliment.

BTW Russian separatists shelled a kindergarten building today.  Thankfully nobody seems to have been seriously hurt.  And Russia is now up to 150,000 troops on the border according to Ukraine.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Brand seems to have set himself up as the poor man's Joe Rogan.  And Joe Rogan was already the poor man's Rush Limbaugh.  So if I'm "factually wrong" according to his "facts," I'll take that as a compliment.
> 
> BTW Russian separatists shelled a kindergarten building today.  Thankfully nobody seems to have been seriously hurt.  And Russia is now up to 150,000 troops on the border according to Ukraine.



You are confusing the commentator with the sources.  That's the illiteracy I was talking about.  When you make claims about defense contractors that are demonstrably untrue, it make me wonder if you've already invested.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are confusing the commentator with the sources.  That's the illiteracy I was talking about.  When you make claims about defense contractors that are demonstrably untrue, it make me wonder if you've already invested.


I have no clue which post of mine in this thread gave you the idea that I'm a huge fan of the military industrial complex, but you're obviously way off base.  Our disagreement is a much more subtle one about how and why weapons manufacturers choose to market themselves the way they do to the public.  They only really advertise themselves in spaces where they know for sure their presence is welcome, such as military bases.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> We've got a grand total of two self-proclaimed democratic socialists in government.  The other several hundred representatives in the Democratic party are all unashamedly hyper-capitalist, and have very often voted with Republicans.  It's just a different set of corporations that pulls the Democratic party's strings, as opposed to the obvious oil and weapons lobbyists that pull the Republican party's strings.  Center-right versus far-right, the illusion of choice leading us slowly down an increasingly authoritarian path.


Not sure what reality you're living it, I hope it's fun, but the left is either far left or close to it. And most hate capatalism. Sure, there are _some _moderate dems close to the center, but they are far and few between and are usually ostracized by their own party viciously.


Xzi said:


> Don't play dumb. Right-wing media does nothing but bitch about imaginary "cultural Marxism."  You could probably recite a lot of their talking points by memory for me.


Oh yeah, because it doesn't exist right now in other parts of the world or in our very own government and seeping in our society. It just doesn't exist as long as we plug our ears and go "la la la I can't hear you I can't see you". You're lack of self awareness is astonishing, but I've seen if from others here so it's not surprising. I should stop trying to argue with people that have manure for brains and refuse to grow more intelligent, that's my problem.


Xzi said:


> We're keeping a presence in the region, yes, a presence we already had.  You'd know we're not sending troops to Ukraine if you had actually read the article.


We're sending them to the border, that's close enough to get involved.


Xzi said:


> That was the best TLDR I could make for your statement.  I didn't even name anyone here specifically when referring to "right-wing racists," but your reflexive instinct to jump to their defense is quite telling.


It's called "implying", ever heard of that, when you don't outright say something but allude to it? Need a dictionary too now? I hope that pic wasn't of yourself now, because if you are a baby, it would explain a lot. Stupid people also hate reading, which some gave me the same response as you with long posts. Don't want long answers, then don't post, but don't bitch when you can't read beyond two sentences. I can make it shorter if it pleases you, if I feel like it's necessary to,


Xzi said:


> The richest person on Earth, if we're counting dark money, is Vladimir Putin.  Though yes, if Trump had won the election (god forbid), he would've told the world that Ukraine already belongs to Russia and let Vlad waltz right in and take it.  So it really is a flip of the coin in terms of how the US will respond to crises like this...our democracy is far from stable at the moment.


I don't care if Russia wants Ukraine or not or if Putin wants to take it. They can fight it out themselves for all I care and not involve us. Those two places can burn for all I care as long as it doesn't involve us. I don't like Russia, I don't like Putin, and I really just have zero interest in Ukraine. I'd rather focus on our problems first before getting involved outside our own broken country. And thank god Trump didn't in, otherwise inflation would be high, our borders would be almost non-existent and we'd be letting everyone in regardless if they're a threat or not, and our country had never been more united in it's history.

I think we can agree on one thing though, our democracy is far from stable at the moment, but just not the reasons you think, or been brainwashed to believe, it is.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Not sure what reality you're living it, I hope it's fun, but the left is either far left or close to it.


This just tells me you're not worth engaging with any more.  "The left is left."  No shit Sherlock.  The Democratic party, however, is not leftist.  The closest thing we've had to a major leftist political party in America was the Working Families Party, and the CIA murdered MLK just for founding it.



BitMasterPlus said:


> We're sending them to the border, that's close enough to get involved.


"We're sending them to _a_ border, and any border is the same as the Ukrainian border."  U wot m8?



BitMasterPlus said:


> It's called "implying", ever heard of that, when you don't outright say something but allude to it?


I didn't even remotely imply that I was talking about you, I was responding to tabzer lmao.  He didn't take offense, so it's all the more ridiculous that you would in his stead.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I don't care if Russia wants Ukraine or not or if Putin wants to take it.


Well I could've guessed that...conservatives aren't exactly known for their overwhelming abundance of empathy for others.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Our disagreement is a much more subtle one about how and why weapons manufacturers choose to market themselves the way they do to the public. They only really advertise themselves in spaces where they know for sure their presence is welcome, such as military bases.



Again.  You are very wrong.  Just because you aren't subscribed to a newsletter, doesn't mean there isn't one; for example.  If you don't want to know, for sure, that you are wrong--you can continue to avoid the places where proof has been indicated.  You are playing the role of escalating as opposed to de-escalation.  So you say you are against war, but your actions show otherwise.

You can lead a horse to water...


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Just because you aren't subscribed to a newsletter, doesn't mean there is one


I assume you meant "doesn't mean there isn't one," and I never claimed weapons manufacturers didn't have newsletters.  The ones the public receives are from small arms manufacturers though, I'm talking about the bigger fish like Raytheon.



tabzer said:


> You are playing the role of escalating as opposed to de-escalation. So you say you are against war, but your actions show otherwise.


I assume you're referring to the US when you say "you," because obviously I have no role to play on the geopolitical scale at all.  Even still you'd be incorrect.  Neither Biden, Blinken, nor anybody else representing the US has made any statements that could even vaguely be considered a threat.  Talk is all about sanctions, and conditional on Russia's actions from here on out.  Because again, and I can't repeat this enough apparently: *THERE IS ONLY ONE AGGRESSOR IN THIS SCENARIO.*  Neither the US nor Ukraine has done *anything *to warrant Russia's aggression.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I assume you meant "doesn't mean there isn't one," and I never claimed weapons manufacturers didn't have newsletters. The ones the public receives are from small arms manufacturers though, I'm talking about the bigger fish like Raytheon.



Yes, I made the edit.  When do you sleep, lol?  The point is, is when Raytheon and Lockheed Martin are telling their investors that the increased tensions are a boon for conflict--consider those investors are also reporting the news to you and leading political discourse, telling you what to think.



Xzi said:


> I assume you're referring to the US when you say "you,"



Nope.  Playing idiot on the internet is a contribution, even if the value of it cannot be tangibly grasped.  When you have the US and/or Nato pouring weaponry into and training soldiers in Ukraine for the express intent to fight Russia, you have the mirror of an argument that you made about Russia increasing troops along the border.  Just knock it off.


----------



## lordofcombo (Feb 18, 2022)

Not against few skirmishes between Ukraine and russia،that will make few nuclear scientists flee Ukraine,so we can hire them for our own countries.
Think outside the box guys...


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> When do you sleep, lol?


In the week leading up to Elden Ring...never.  



tabzer said:


> The point is, is when Raytheon and Lockheed Martin are telling their investors that the increased tensions are a boon for conflict--consider those investors are also reporting the news to you and leading political discourse, telling you what to think.


True, but as I said before, that industry's sphere of influence is mostly limited to the Republican party.  A different set of corporate interests controls the Democratic party.



tabzer said:


> When you have the US and/or Nato pouring weaponry into and training soldiers in Ukraine for the express intent to fight Russia, you have the mirror of an argument that you made about Russia increasing troops along the border. Just knock it off.


There's no legitimate argument to be made that helping Ukraine prepare to defend themselves is the same thing as US/NATO aggression.  They are our ally, so that's both the least and the most we can do for them in this scenario.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This just tells me you're not worth engaging with any more.  "The left is left."  No shit Sherlock.  The Democratic party, however, is not leftist.  The closest thing we've had to a major leftist political party in America was the Working Families Party, and the CIA murdered MLK just for founding it.


Likewise, so don't engage for all I care, but this will probably continue on for another thousand pages, and the left is infected with socialist and communist values more and more everyday. You can be as ignorant as you want to be on that fact but it is the truth.


Xzi said:


> "We're sending them to _a_ border, and any border is the same as the Ukrainian border."  U wot m8?


Did you not read that we're sending them to the Ukraine border or are you just that stupid?


Xzi said:


> I didn't even remotely imply that I was talking about you, I was responding to tabzer lmao.  He didn't take offense, so it's all the more ridiculous that you would in his stead.


Well I guess I got confused on that point maybe. Since it was either you or somebody else who called me a Russian bot and a racist. Not like it matters since it's hard to tell your kind apart from one another it all just blends in.


Xzi said:


> Well I could've guessed that...conservatives aren't exactly known for their overwhelming abundance of empathy for others.


I have empathy for others, I just don't think we need to get involved in any conflicts now considering how broken apart our own country is. Worry about ourselves first then worry about what you can do for others. Sorry it's hard for you to understand that, let's just spread ourselves around the world even if we don't have the means or manpower to do so because otherwise we're the meanies who don't want to help. If you want to help, fine, but leave me out of it so I can fix the problems here first.


----------



## wartutor (Feb 18, 2022)

Why not send these troops to the southern border to help secure our border. Stop all the illegal activity our current p.o.s of a president is just continuing to aid and abeid. If trump did half the shit biden did you would scream impeach....wait didnt Hilary make shit up and plant evidence on an elected official to try and overthrow the president of the usa. They whole time everyone on the left screaming impeach. And who is the real insurrectionist. What is happening at the Ukraine border is simple. Hillary and her gang got their buddy Putin to "pretend" to stage a takeover so Biden can "negotiate" a peaceful resolution. Give Biden a win "as fack and staged as it is."


----------



## djpannda (Feb 18, 2022)

wartutor said:


> Why not send these troops to the southern border to help secure our border. Stop all the illegal activity our current p.o.s of a president is just continuing to aid and abeid. If trump did half the shit biden did you would scream impeach....wait didnt Hilary make shit up and plant evidence on an elected official to try and overthrow the president of the usa. They whole time everyone on the left screaming impeach. And who is the real insurrectionist. What is happening at the Ukraine border is simple. Hillary and her gang got their buddy Putin to "pretend" to stage a takeover so Biden can "negotiate" a peaceful resolution. Give Biden a win "as fack and staged as it is."


none... literally NONE of that statement is based in Reality ...


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 18, 2022)

Here's some interesting reading from the other (Russian) side. I'm gonna make the assumption that the independant polling center is legit as it seems to have a decent reputation.

https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/5-polls-contextualize-russia-ukraine-crisis

It's not surprising to see the majority are blaming US/Nato as the initiating aggressor, but I didn't expect to also see that most people want to see better relations with the US.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 18, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Here's some interesting reading from the other (Russian) side. I'm gonna make the assumption that the independant polling center is legit as it seems to have a decent reputation.
> 
> https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/5-polls-contextualize-russia-ukraine-crisis
> 
> It's not surprising to see the majority are blaming US/Nato as the initiating aggressor, but I didn't expect to also see that most people want to see better relations with the US.


will remember the Russian side news is Providing  COMPLETELY different views From US News and Then A Third View from world wide news.
So these Polls will change depending where the poll is taken from,

And Remember The Normal Russian are like Normal Americans, They don't give a fuck about Politics, They are just normal people who deal with the same shit everyone does. They don't want Violence or Blood Shed, especially over EGOS


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 18, 2022)

djpannda said:


> especially over EGOS


That's the problem isn't it.. all of these guys seem to have massive egos, especially Putin.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

UK intelligence says Russia now has half of its entire military stationed on the border with Ukraine. 

Ukrainian support for joining NATO and EU hits record high.

The United States' message to Russia: prove us wrong.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> UK intelligence says Russia now has half of its entire military stationed on the border with Ukraine.
> 
> Ukrainian support for joining NATO and EU hits record high.
> 
> The United States' message to Russia: prove us wrong.


I see Russian invaded Ukriane Definite. But just like that Headline. ITs going to Strengthen Ukriane Resolve to actually Join Nato..  
and Then Putin is going to be jealous.
Boom WWIII


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 18, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I have empathy for others, I just don't think we need to get involved in any conflicts now considering how broken apart our own country is. Worry about ourselves first then worry about what you can do for others. Sorry it's hard for you to understand that, let's just spread ourselves around the world even if we don't have the means or manpower to do so because otherwise we're the meanies who don't want to help. If you want to help, fine, but leave me out of it so I can fix the problems here first.


Except anything that would actually approve people's lives, would have you spamming the words socialism and communism at it.


----------



## Taleweaver (Feb 18, 2022)

Ahem... Though I've started the thread, i won't be engaging in discussions on motivations. Just about the actions...

At first i thought Wednesday passing meant a closing of the window of opportunity (us services had hinted Wednesday as D-day). That didn't happen, obviously.

But now it's escalating regardless. Donetsk (a... Republic state? In eastern Ukraine) is currently evacuating civilians... To Russia.
There's been a car bombing (no one injured). 

And yeah... Nato is setting troops in a state of readiness, the us (Harris) is in support of Ukraine...and Russia is about to test the capacity of the nuclear arsenal. 
US intelligence estimates the Russian troops between 169 and 190'000. Largest deployment done the second world War.


----------



## matthi321 (Feb 18, 2022)

if russia doesnt end up invading ukraine,im not gonna trust anything the us goverment says for a long time


----------



## Xzi (Feb 18, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> There's been a car bombing (no one injured).


The metadata on that shows it happened on the 16th, but Russia is trying to pass it off as happening today.  Another attempt at a false flag, basically.



matthi321 said:


> if russia doesnt end up invading ukraine,im not gonna trust anything the us goverment says for a long time


If Russia doesn't end up invading then all it took to deter them was a bit of reverse psychology.  That'd be great.  Sadly I don't think it'll be enough.


----------



## k7ra (Feb 18, 2022)

All talk about VS Navo, Ukrain, Russia.
But, no talk about that Ukrain kill Ukrain people.

Russia's aggression in what?
That Nato keep adding army and weapons near Russia?
That USA only talk about a starting a war that already Russia "?start?" few times by invading? (And still not done it)
Tell me what you would try to do?
If you live in home with family and see that near you appear army with weapons that become bigger and bigger, talk how they would smash some of your family.
Right answer - you would try protect it. How you can protect it? By talking and prepare for worse (you would get a gun too)...
That's what we see what happens, world talk about a war - then army increase near Russia. And I'm sure in near future we again see some questionable proofs again. Well, if it would continue - doesn't matter who would start it, but it would happen. And that's what we really not would want. War, would touch all of us, trust me.

This invading dates are taken from where? We not see any real document with proof. We not see any real proof of Russia invading. But all talk that Russia do it from long ago. Take note about false proofs that come from "game?" too. Note that on Ukraine appear many racist against Russian language and people too.
But that's all not a main problem, people with their family that simply live on Donbass got attacked by their army (Ukraine). They not have weapons, but die there. Note that army have weapons, they got it from Nato too and still cant solve problem (Or, we should maybe rethink it and say that they not want it to ends?)


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 18, 2022)

Hillary getting caught is bringing out all their Ukraine business and Obama is scared like a little bitch right now cause hes next.  Exposure exposure exposure.  Ladies & gentlemen the harvest is here. 

Remember when these were all conspiracy theories?  Where's the main stream news apologizing or even covering it now?  = Exposed!  Un-elected pseudo elite frauds are going down.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Hillary getting caught is bringing out all their Ukraine business and Obama is scared like a little bitch right now cause hes next.  Exposure exposure exposure.  Ladies & gentlemen the harvest is here.
> 
> Remember when these were all conspiracy theories?  Where's the main stream news apologizing or even covering it now?  = Exposed!  Un-elected pseudo elite frauds are going down.


..... wait are you state sponsored or just doing trolling for fun?
 I was wondering how much the FSB pays?


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..... wait are you state sponsored or just doing trolling for fun?
> I was wondering how much the FSB pays?


No idea what you are talking about.  But okay.  Look at whats unfolding.  Exposure at it's finest.


----------



## k7ra (Feb 19, 2022)

Check USA, Ukrainian and Russian news.
You would see strange things that  did not click together.
But similar things give questions.
To see full picture, check each side.
It's war about information and there so many shit in each side (Well, news always love to say things how they wanted)


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> No idea what you are talking about.  But okay.  Look at whats unfolding.  Exposure at it's finest.


1. Nothing you stated in your last statement Made sense.
2. Super vague ( either because your because your making up shit on former Flotus. Or heard it on conservative news but they were super vague also and you don’t know why your mad
3. Just creating a coping mechanism to deal with the lastest news bout the former defeated guy.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

k7ra said:


> Check USA, Ukrainian and Russian news.
> You would see strange things that  did not click together.
> But similar things give questions.
> To see full picture, check each side.
> It's war about information and there so many shit in each side (Well, news always love to say things how they wanted)


Yes! And the fact NATO warned that Russian would use this Diversion of “rebels”  2 weeks ago as a pretext to invade Ukraine show how manufactured Russian narrative is

 2 weeks ago it was NATO “ Aggression” but when the world called BS, Russia quickly moved to rebel fighting as the cause


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

djpannda said:


> 1. Nothing you stated in your last statement Made sense.
> 2. Super vague ( either because your because your making up shit on former Flotus. Or heard it on conservative news but they were super vague also and you don’t know why your mad
> 3. Just creating a coping mechanism to deal with the lastest news bout the former defeated guy.


Nothing makes sense to your type when its the end of your democracy LOL.  I'm dropping facts and your name calling etc.  Reminds me of someone.  Keep on watching, it's about to get REAL GOOD.  If that don't make sense get a dictionary.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

k7ra said:


> Check USA, Ukrainian and Russian news.
> You would see strange things that did not click together.


There's Putin's narrative, and then there's the rest of the world's intelligence sources.  Pretty damn obvious who's lying.


----------



## wartutor (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Nothing makes sense to your type when its the end of your democracy LOL.  I'm dropping facts and your name calling etc.  Reminds me of someone.  Keep on watching, it's about to get REAL GOOD.  If that don't make sense get a dictionary.


Might as well talk to a wall his news outlet dont cover the real news aka the hillary scandal too busy blaming trump blind of the truth


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Nothing makes sense to your type when its the end of your democracy LOL.  I'm dropping facts and your name calling etc.  Reminds me of someone.  Keep on watching, it's about to get REAL GOOD.  If that don't make sense get a dictionary.


“Hillary getting caught is bringing out all their Ukraine business and Obama is scared like a little bitch right now cause hes next. Exposure exposure exposure. Ladies & gentlemen the harvest is here.”

What part of that statement is “fact” 
It’s just a vague notion of not thing but menacing buzz words . . Lol



wartutor said:


> Might as well talk to a wall his news outlet dont cover the real news aka the hillary scandal too busy blaming trump blind of the truth


Funny you sale “Hillary scandal” yet no court case or indictment involving her yet. The formal guy has how many?




23 indictments and 5 guilty pleas …ouch


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

wartutor said:


> Might as well talk to a wall his news outlet dont cover the real news aka the hillary scandal too busy blaming trump blind of the truth


Buttery males does not rise to the same level of urgency as an imminent military invasion.  Shocking, I know.  And even if they did, Ivanka did the exact same thing (maintained a private e-mail server while working in government), and Donald did much worse (took top secret/classified documents back with him to Mar-A-Lago).  I don't expect any consequences for any of this, but it's still worth keeping in mind if you don't want to present yourself as a hypocrite.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

djpannda said:


> “Hillary getting caught is bringing out all their Ukraine business and Obama is scared like a little bitch right now cause hes next. Exposure exposure exposure. Ladies & gentlemen the harvest is here.”
> 
> What part of that statement is “fact”
> It’s just a vague notion of not thing but menacing buzz words . . Lol
> ...


Federal court if your actually watching whats happening, they have all been indicted even her lawyer.  This one is bad, REAL BAD.  Keep watching and get some popcorn or keep ignoring it and get some help.  The good guys only need 1 real one = OUCH.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Federal court if your actually watching whats happening, they have all been indicted even her lawyer.  This one is bad, REAL BAD.  Keep watching and get some popcorn or keep ignoring it and get some help.  The good guys only need 1 real one = OUCH.


… all been indicted? … please name some? I think you might need to back up your fictitious  claims.


Why does it feel like your one of those people who Facebook post “ that Hillary was executed  in Gito in 2019, Biden is a clone, the pope and the vatican was taken over in 2020 by the US military?… you know poeple who never actually backup crazy shit they say and just move on to the next talking point when challenged


----------



## Tweaker_Modding (Feb 19, 2022)

world war 3 imbound


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

djpannda said:


> … all been indicted? … please name some? I think you might need to back up your fictitious  claims.


He might as well have gone with the nutjob theory that she's been replaced by an android, at least that'd be somewhat harder to disprove.  Only Trump is actively being indicted right now, so it's not surprising that Republicans are trying to renew the Hillary hissy fit as a distraction.  This is all completely off-topic though.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> He might as well have gone with the nutjob theory that she's been replaced by an android, at least that'd be somewhat harder to disprove.  Only Trump is actively being indicted right now, so it's not surprising that Republicans are trying to renew the Hillary hissy fit as a distraction.  This is all completely off-topic though.


How can either of you talk politics when you don't know what the fuck is going on?  Since you know so much why don't you go look for yourself instead of looking stupid?  They are all exposed and in court for all of you to see, it's only going to get worse for all of them and YES it ties in with the Ukraine.  Conspiracy theory that bitches!  Like I said they can't spin this one without exposure...Even their minions...


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> How can either of you talk politics when you don't know what the fuck is going on?


It's easy for us to talk politics, as we live in reality.  Not sure I can say the same for you.



Donnie-Burger said:


> They are all exposed and in court for all of you to see, it's only going to get worse for all of them and YES it ties in with the Ukraine.


I'm guessing the only thing that might come up if I Google this nonsense is Breitbart or something even less credible.  Whatever Rogan (or Youtube/podcast equivalent) is telling you is only meant to keep you listening/watching from episode to episode, it can't be taken seriously in a mature conversation about politics or geopolitics.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's easy for us to talk politics, as we live in reality.  Not sure I can say the same for you.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the only thing that might come up if I Google this nonsense is Breitbart or something even less credible.  Whatever Rogan (or Youtube/podcast equivalent) is telling you is only meant to keep you listening/watching from episode to episode, it can't be taken seriously in a mature conversation about politics or geopolitics.


So we are just going to pretend this shit ain't happening?  That's reality?  Good thing my favorite color is clear cause I see right through your bullshit.  Would love to see how Obama is acting right now,would be priceless.  Buckle up folks, yes even the stupid ones...


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> So we are just going to pretend this shit ain't happening? That's reality?


Whatever shit you're talking about, correct, it's not real and therefore not relevant.  You're apparently someone who has trouble seperating truth from fiction, but I suppose not everybody's parents were as diligent about ensuring their kids were skeptical about claims made on the internet.  Russia threatening Ukraine with half their military on the border?  Yes, that's real, that's happening,  So stop fucking taking the aggressor's side, makes you look like a real scumbag.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Whatever shit you're talking about, correct, it's not real and therefore not relevant.  You're apparently someone who has trouble seperating truth from fiction, but I suppose not everybody's parents were as diligent about ensuring their kids were skeptical about claims made on the internet.  Russia threatening Ukraine with half their military on the border?  Yes, that's real, that's happening,  So stop fucking taking the aggressor's side, makes you look like a real scumbag.


Awe bitch...Don't get mad.  Your hella stupid.  I'll leave it at that.  Keep ignoring what's really going on all you want.  Good luck sucka.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Keep ignoring what's really going on all you want.


Beer commercials and rap videos are more in touch with "what's really going on" than you.  I'm not sure you've read a news article from a reputable outlet once in your entire life, and I have to pity you for that.

Or you're just another dime a dozen troll, which would certainly fit with the avatar.  If that's the case, yawn.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Awe bitch...Don't get mad.  Your hella stupid.  I'll leave it at that.  Keep ignoring what's really going on all you want.  Good luck sucka.





djpannda said:


> … you know poeple who never actually backup crazy shit they say and just move on to the next talking point when challenged


Did I call it lol.. after being  by challenged, they coward and defensively try to change the subject.. ..again who was Indicted with Ties with the former Flotus?


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 19, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Except anything that would actually approve people's lives, would have you spamming the words socialism and communism at it.


Oh really? And what specifically has been done since you know who took office that has improved anyone's life, at all?


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Feb 19, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Did I call it lol.. after being  by challenged, they coward and defensively try to change the subject.. ..again who was Indicted with Ties with the former Flotus?


Just like I called it IGNORANT AF = the 3% we were warned about a while back.  Look it up it's everywhere now.  Truth always circles back.  Hillary n gang are fucked.  Don't matter if I believe, don't matter if you believe it.  Federal court going down now, look it up if you want real news.  Keep on blah blah blah'N bullshit, wont make a difference.

Hillary was nowhere for 2 years
Out of nowhere Hillary resurfaces like a TURD
She gets shot down with a torpedo
Obama scared out of his mind right now
Imagine all the ratting / backstabbing happening

Cry all you want, scream fake all you want, It's finally here ya sick fucks!


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh really? And what specifically has been done since you know who took office that has improved anyone's life, at all?





BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh really? And what specifically has been done since you know who took office that has improved anyone's life, at all?


Several bridges and roads near me have/ in process of being repaired after years of neglect because of Biden’s infrastructure bill .. in fact Thousand of bridge and roads have already been fixed.  Thanx Prez.
Biden: Notorious Bridge May Finally Get Fix in $1T Bil
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...ge-may-finally-get-fix-in-1t-bill?context=amp


----------



## djpannda (Feb 19, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Just like I called it IGNORANT AF = the 3% we were warned about a while back.  Look it up it's everywhere now.  Truth always circles back.  Hillary n gang are fucked.  Don't matter if I believe, don't matter if you believe it.  Federal court going down now, look it up if you want real news.  Keep on blah blah blah'N bullshit, wont make a difference.
> 
> Hillary was nowhere for 2 years
> Out of nowhere Hillary resurfaces like a TURD
> ...


 please provide details and court/indictment of your day dreams. Lol I’m really waiting for you to claim the Pope was in on it .. lol


djpannda said:


> … all been indicted? … please name some? I think you might need to back up your fictitious  claims.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Isn't it interesting how only very specific topics get any interest in this forum?


Yes. The woke topics. The anti trump topics etc. But throughout history you'll often find mediocrity is accepted by the masses as there would only be a few naysayers. Its how humanity works unfortunately.

For example you'll find 3 things readily accepted these days. Black oppression. Climate Crisis. Any anything black related that is not overtly gushing.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> For example you'll find 3 things readily accepted these days. Black oppression. Climate Crisis.


So...history (which influences the present) and science/technology?  Yeah, most people do readily accept those things.  OTOH, people who want to erase the former because they're embarrassed/ashamed of it, and entirely ignore what the latter is telling us are pathetic.

/offtopic tirade


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> So...history (which influences the present) and science/technology?  Yeah, most people do readily accept those things.  OTOH, people who want to erase the former because they're embarrassed/ashamed of it, and entirely ignore what the latter is telling us are pathetic.
> 
> /offtopic tirade


Question, how long does one blame history for ills they have suffered? How many generations does it take?

People who think black history is one of oppression are ignorant to black empires that have existed throughout millennia. These are are mostly western, especially american people who do not know about black history and focus on one chunk of it ie slavery.

No one ever attempted to erase history such as slavery. I think people like you who gaslight (falsely-interpret) people as trying to erase history are only doing so because you think you can shift the focus and also because you don't have a real counter point to make. Especially because you know I am right.

As someone of the black community, I know there are issues which are cultural and social which plague our community and no one is to blame for it nor can change it. Because positive change sometimes comes from within.

The issue with the american and western black community is not only do we try to blame others for our shortcomings, we also try to get them to feel bad about it and be apologetic about it. We have largely achieved this brainwashing and we are still not happy. We want our issues to be celebrated and embraced.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> People who think black history is one of oppression are ignorant to black empires that have existed throughout millennia.


Heck, they even had a place called "black wall street" in the US at one point!  I wonder what ever happened to that... 



MadonnaProject said:


> No one ever attempted to erase history such as slavery.


Every thumb-shaped boomer yelling at schools about teaching CRT and which books they should burn is trying to erase the history of slavery in the US.  And erase their part in supporting discrimination even long after slavery was abolished.



MadonnaProject said:


> As someone of the black community ... we try to blame others for our shortcomings, we also try to get them to feel bad about it and be apologetic about it.


Pressing X to doubt.  There are individuals of all races who blame others for their problems, but nobody talks about their community as a monolith that way.  The issues black people have with law enforcement and the justice system are systemic.  Put simply: the North won the Civil War, the South won reconstruction.  It's not a coincidence that the thirteenth amendment exists as it does, and that America has as many people (disproportionately black) in jail as it does.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Heck, they even had a place called "black wall street" in the US at one point!  I wonder what ever happened to that...


How long ago? When does the damage from it end? is every black man woman and child suffering from the leftover hurt from this? How long will it take to recover from it? So all the thugs in the streets stabbing each other, dealing drugs, are in that position because there was a "black wall street". If the damage is segregation then how is BET any different?


Xzi said:


> Every thumb-shaped boomer yelling at schools about teaching CRT and which books they should burn is trying to erase the history of slavery in the US.  And erase their part in supporting discrimination even long after slavery was abolished.


It isn't only boomers against CRT. It may as well be called "victim training". Also insulting the looks of "boomers" is low-intellect. To assume all boomers are racist is also not the stuff of the intelligent. Do you stereotype everyone but expect them not to do the same to you? You must be american and black.


Xzi said:


> Pressing X to doubt.  There are individuals of all races who blame others for their problems, but nobody talks about their community as a monolith that way.  The issues black people have with law enforcement and the justice system are systemic.  Put simply: the North won the Civil War, the South won reconstruction.  It's not a coincidence that the thirteenth amendment exists as it does, and that America has as many people (disproportionately black) in jail as it does.


Actually NOOOOOOOOOO. Examples:

Chinese - Hundreds of years of oppression by their own and invaders. Until 40 years ago they were poor, downtrodden and pretty much wrecked. Look at them now, a world power.

Russians - Revolution after revolution, upheaval after upheaval. Oppression the sort the blacks in america have never imagined. (cannibalism in europe was a thing around the 1st world war and even after). Look how they're doing now.

Indians - Forget the religious wars, they were invaded, conquered and ransacked by the British for all their resources and then left abandoned. They're a world power. The south asian community statistically gets the most racist abuse anywhere. You seldom hear them whinge as much do you?

Why is it no matter where you go the black community is the loudest to shout oppression? Why is it crime statistics, rape statistics, murder statistics, drug dealing statistics, illegitimacy statistics are the highest amongst the black race?

In London drug dealing and stabbing is the highest in the world at the moment. It is almost exclusively a black-carribeano-africano issue.

As I said. I am part of the community. I was not raised to believe I am how I am because the world is against me. The black experience will never improve unless we change from within.

Yet we expect the world to accept our shortcomings without improving. We belittle anyone who does not follow our trends and culture. We listen to music laden with drugs and every disgusting vice man can think of. We treat our women as pieces of meat.

You travel the world and you are almost embarrassed of the state of black society and culture. We stick out like a sore thumb wherever we go, not because the world is racist to us but because we behave in this manner. You can tell someone is black by the way they speak or even type sometimes. Look at you. Most of what you've said is angry and plain "schoolboy insults". I assure you, no other race speaks of behaves like us. There's a reason why.

Come on man. Come on.


----------



## Dakitten (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> How long ago? When does the damage from it end? is every black man woman and child suffering from the leftover hurt from this? How long will it take to recover from it? So all the thugs in the streets stabbing each other, dealing drugs, are in that position because there was a "black wall street". If the damage is segregation then how is BET any different?
> 
> It isn't only boomers against CRT. It may as well be called "victim training". Also insulting the looks of "boomers" is low-intellect. To assume all boomers are racist is also not the stuff of the intelligent. Do you stereotype everyone but expect them not to do the same to you? You must be american and black.
> 
> ...


This seems to be solid proof that you can belong to a minority group while still being (likely willfully) ignorant of the problems they face. Sad stuff, really.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> How long ago? When does the damage from it end?


Not as long ago as you'd like to believe, I'm sure.  Do a little research on it and why/how it came to an end.



MadonnaProject said:


> It isn't only boomers against CRT.


Yeah it pretty much is.  You gotta have lead poisoning to believe we should be teaching a censored, white-washed version of US history in high school.



MadonnaProject said:


> Actually NOOOOOOOOOO. Examples:


Bruh, are you seriously trying to have a dick-measuring contest over which ethnic/racial group has been the most oppressed historically?  Both irrelevant and not a good look.



MadonnaProject said:


> You travel the world and you are almost embarrassed of the state of black society and culture.


Maybe if you're Bill Cosby.  Pretty easy to recognize the massive contributions black people have made to art, music, and literature otherwise.  Rock/hard rock is my favorite genre, and it absolutely would not exist if not for the black community creating blues.



MadonnaProject said:


> Look at you. Most of what you've said is angry and plain "schoolboy insults". I assure you, no other race speaks of behaves like us. There's a reason why.


LOL I'm pale as a paper plate in a snowstorm my friend, and at this point I'm 95% sure you are too.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

Dakitten said:


> This seems to be solid proof that you can belong to a minority group while still being (likely willfully) ignorant of the problems they face. Sad stuff, really.


 Go be irrelevant elsewhere.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 19, 2022)

Jesus I should stop coming to this section of the site lest my IQ goes any lower and I become brain dead.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Yeah it pretty much is.  You gotta have lead poisoning to believe we should be teaching a censored, white-washed version of US history in high school.


History is actually pretty simple. Those who conflate it as something complicated are shoe-horning their agenda. The caucasian British colonised most of the world. They annexed what became the United States (mostly) from the native americans. Black slaves were gifted and sometimes sold to them by african tribal leaders who had a history of slavery which continues to this day. The white slave owners defcted against the crown and won independence. They later also abolished slavery.

Pretty similar to what they did in Australia, India, new Zealand and Africa. (yet how many of these ex-slaves bitch about slavery? One guess, our kind).


Xzi said:


> Bruh, are you seriously trying to have a dick-measuring contest over which ethnic/racial group has been the most oppressed historically?  Both irrelevant and not a good look.


No. There's no "bruh" here. No one is "dick-measuring". This is why its hopeless having a conversation with people like you. Life is not always about dick-measuring, big-butts, who has more hoes, who can spit verbs etc etc etc. I am only stating my opinion and whilst it might contrast yours, this is what discussions are made of. There's no need to win because its not a competition.

Stop deliberately missing my point. Which is, every race has had terrible oppression to deal with at one point or another. Yet only us blacks go on about it non-stop.




Xzi said:


> Maybe if you're Bill Cosby.  Pretty easy to recognize the massive contributions black people have made to art, music, and literature otherwise.  Rock/hard rock is my favorite genre, and it absolutely would not exist if not for the black community creating blues.


So the 6 string guitar which was created by an Italian, the electric guitar created by Fender and co, and the drum created by ancient china, would have simply not have led to anything resembling rock?

The african had to come along and wail and holler, singing about their "woes" and poof suddenly you have metallica?

Come on man, let's please stop being feeble. Black people have invented a lot of things, just be factual about the stuff.

Saying black people invented rock is such a weak connection, its like saying black people invented singing because they happened to yawn.

The factual and fair thing to say is "Black people contributed to rock and music greatly, as did others".


Xzi said:


> LOL I'm pale as a paper plate in a snowstorm my friend, and at this point I'm 95% sure you are too.


No one cares or should care what skin colour we are. That is my point. The fact you're obsessed with skin, whether light or dark illustrates the issue.

P.S: You're 5% correct. How does it feel?


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> The white slave owners defcted against the crown and won independence. They later also abolished slavery.


They abolished slavery after they lost a very long and bloody war against their own countrymen who had to force them to.  Additionally, it didn't stay abolished, as the thirteenth amendment allows for slavery as punishment for a crime (no matter how minor).  See how easy it was for you to white-wash history by leaving out important details?



MadonnaProject said:


> There's no need to win because its not a competition.


And yet you needlessly tried to make slavery and discrimination against blacks throughout history the "loser" by attempting to belittle it against other historical atrocities.  Ever heard the saying, "two wrongs don't make a right?"



MadonnaProject said:


> The african had to come along and wail and holler, singing about their "woes" and poof suddenly you have metallica?


Jesus Christ you sound like you time-traveled here from the 1950s.  "Wail and holler," smh.  



MadonnaProject said:


> The factual and fair thing to say is "Black people contributed to rock and music generally".


Sure why not, I have a feeling that's about as much credit as you've ever given the black community for anything, so I won't push further.



MadonnaProject said:


> No one cares or should care what skin colour we are. That is my point. The fact you're obsessed with skin, whether light or dark illustrates the issue.


Did you really already forget that it was your unprompted comment on "black oppression being readily accepted" that started this off-topic conversation?  And you most certainly did not say it with positive connotations.  So perhaps take your own advice and stop obsessing over just the negative aspects of the black community, even if it is one you are supposedly part of.  The white community has just as many, if not more negative aspects to it, but I try to dwell on it as little as possible.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 19, 2022)

"You need to accept that you are a victim and that we are here to help you."

That's like the slogan of American imperialism.  The communication isn't an invitation for a discussion.  It's a false platitude.  These people just found a way to bully while convincing themselves that they are "good people".  Yet, they cannot hide how nasty they really are.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> "You need to accept that you are a victim and that we are here to help you."
> 
> That's like the slogan of American imperialism.


That's the slogan of imperialism everywhere, sounds like a lot of the Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine.

(To bring this back on topic.)


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They abolished slavery after they lost a very long and bloody war against their own countrymen who had to force them to.  Additionally, it didn't stay abolished, as the thirteenth amendment allows for slavery as punishment for a crime (no matter how minor).  See how easy it was for you to white-wash history by leaving out important details?


Africa, right now, has the highest level of slavery. Africa also has the highest number of hunger, deprivation, corruption etc etc.

You know what happened to the slaves who came to the west? They got out.

If the west is so bad, perhaps they can give Africa a try (which 400 years later is STILL statistically has the highest rate of slavery in the world). And its not all by waht peeplez.



Xzi said:


> And yet you needlessly tried to make slavery and discrimination against blacks throughout history the "loser" by attempting to belittle it against other historical atrocities.  Ever heard the saying, "two wrongs don't make a right?"


Read my comment again. The comparison was about their propensity to whine about slavery. I just said "everyone has had oppression". To do so I had to mention other examples. Its how making a point works.


Xzi said:


> Jesus Christ you sound like you time-traveled here from the 1950s.  "Wail and holler," smh.


How very "black". Language has to be "hood-ified" for it to be cool or understandable. I mean, oh dear I used language you think is from the 50s. Wait the 50's are full of waht peoplez. The 50's were rahoocizz.

Come. On.


Xzi said:


> Sure why not, I have a feeling that's about as much credit as you've ever given the black community for anything, so I won't push further.


You know another thing I notice about "our people"? Biologically, there's claffications of "race".
*Caucasoids* are what you call "waht peeoplez". Yet they don't class themselves as one race. They're Australians, British, Americans, Italians amongst more.
*Mongoloids *(what one calls asians). These are Japanese, Chinese, Korean, mixed with philipino (latino mixture) to give an example. But they don't call themselves "Yellow". They are just people or citizenships.
*Negroid *It seems no matter what country you're from, whether middle east, south africa, north africa, america, caribbean, whatever, the westerners (especially American blacks) lump them all as "BLACK" or "People of colour". This is an interesting and uneducated phenomenon because the "blacks" in the middle east don't refer to themselves as such.

Maybe you can enlighten me. What exactly is the "black community"? because all I know is the "human community".





Xzi said:


> Did you really already forget that it was your unprompted comment on "black oppression being readily accepted" that started this off-topic conversation?  And you most certainly did not say it with positive connotations.  So perhaps take your own advice and stop obsessing over just the negative aspects of the black community, even if it is one you are supposedly part of.  The white community has just as many, if not more negative aspects to it, but I try to dwell on it as little as possible.


Its not off-topic. This is the issue. You will try to quash my points in this discussion by being sarcastic, by being insulting, by being personal, then resort to calling me racist, implying I am against my own race, or when that fails pretend the conversation is off topic.

THIS is why nothing can and will be done for our people. Most of us seem incapable of anything remotely resembling an intelligent dialogue.

Just compliment us overly, agree with us, accept our shortcomings and we are happy. Well, it may have worked in america, but there is a whole world out there and not many else accept this sort of behavior from us man. Even in america and western countries we will push things too far and then the backlash against us will be huge.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> Africa, right now, has the highest level of slavery.


"Not a contest," remember?  The US has the highest per capita prison population, and the entirety of that prison population can be forced into slave labor.



MadonnaProject said:


> If the west is so bad, perhaps they can give Africa a try


Or we could just try to improve conditions here, rather than flippantly dismiss valid criticisms with whataboutisms.



MadonnaProject said:


> How very "black". Language has to be "hood-ified" for it to be cool or understandable.


My white parents don't talk like that and I'm in my thirties.  Maybe my grandparents did, lmao.



MadonnaProject said:


> You know another thing I notice about "our people"?


So you're admitting you're white then, noted.  Still ain't no "our people" though, I don't side with ignorant conservatives.  Especially those that pretend to be black on the internet when they think it might give them a leg up in an argument.



MadonnaProject said:


> Maybe you can enlighten me. What exactly is the "black community"? because all I know is the "human community".


LMAO you disingenuous SOB.  You used that phrase in this conversation before I did.  



MadonnaProject said:


> Its not off-topic. This is the issue. You will try to quash my points in this discussion by being sarcastic, by being insulting, by being personal, then resort to calling me racist, implying I am against my own race, or when that fails pretend the conversation is off topic.


Have you even glanced at what the topic is once?  Because it's not, "your thoughts on race relations in America and CRT."



MadonnaProject said:


> Just compliment us overly, agree with us, accept our shortcomings and we are happy.


You just described Donald Trump and anybody with narcissistic personality disorder.  Attempting to stereotype all black Americans in that fashion is just plain racist though, no two ways about it.


----------



## AncientBoi (Feb 19, 2022)

I think it's Crap! The world is not even ready for War. if it had to come to that. Are we not still dying of covid? Stupid fuqing politicians! I wish I could tell them ALL to "Go To Their Rooms", since they act like Kids!


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> aggressor's side


From a historic perspective, the US is the aggressor.
The Russian people (not just Putin) cannot and will never accept the US Army in the Donbass or on Crimea. The actions Russia has taken were completely predictable. It is a bit like putting official American military on the island of Taiwan. Instant war. To Russians the American army is an extension of the German Wehrmacht (let´s not forget there were plans to unite with the Wehrmacht and start a 2nd Operation Barbarossa; in any case Germany and America are united today). Similarly, to the Chinese the American army is an extension of the Japanese Imperial Army (again: there were plans to nuke China, shortly after Japan had been defeated... and let´s not forget Korea and Vietnam).

The US does not have a historic sore point with regards to Cuba (compared to Donbass), but 1962 has proven they are willing to go to war instantly if Russia did what they are now trying to do to Russia.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> "Not a contest," remember?  The US has the highest per capita prison population, and the entirety of that prison population can be forced into slave labor.


I can agree on that.


Xzi said:


> Or we could just try to improve conditions here, rather than flippantly dismiss valid criticisms with whataboutisms.


So how's this working out?


Xzi said:


> My white parents don't talk like that and I'm in my thirties.  Maybe my grandparents did, lmao.


So you're white. I am not. This figures why you are speaking to a black person with such entitlement to down talk to them about what YOU think are the issues in their community. It makes more sense now. People like you want people like me to feel victimised so you can feel like the saviour. When we don't you don't really like it.


Xzi said:


> So you're admitting you're white then, noted.  Still ain't no "our people" though, I don't side with ignorant conservatives.  Especially those that pretend to be black on the internet when they think it might give them a leg up in an argument.


Are all conclusions in your life lead to a 2 and 2 makes 5 situation?


Xzi said:


> LMAO you disingenuous SOB.  You used that phrase in this conversation before I did.


You really speak like an american. Not that you'd have self awareness to realise how stupid it is.


Xzi said:


> Have you even glanced at what the topic is once?  Because it's not, "your thoughts on race relations in America and CRT."
> 
> 
> You just described Donald Trump and anybody with narcissistic personality disorder.  Attempting to stereotype all black Americans in that fashion is just plain racist though, no two ways about it.


Aha, white guy with a TDS and saviour complex. I am not wasting anymore time with you.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> So how's this working out?


Slow but steady.  Lots of people like you who think things will never get better and so we should never even try to improve them.



MadonnaProject said:


> So you're white. I am not.


Nope, not playing that game any more.  Your writing style betrays you as old, out of touch, and someone who listens to far too much Jordan Peterson.  All you're doing is supporting his pill addiction.



MadonnaProject said:


> You really speak like an american.


A simple, "yeah I made a mistake" would've sufficed, but your inability to even do that betrays an ego much larger and more fragile than my own American one.



MadonnaProject said:


> Aha, white guy with a TDS and saviour complex.


Not a single black person would ever be caught dead using the abbreviation/phrase "TDS," but I guess we're already past the point where you've gone mask off anyway.  I'm sorry if I offended you by using Donald Trump as the most famous and well-known example of NPD, but facts don't care about your feelings.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 19, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> From a historic perspective, the US is the aggressor.


This doesn't make any sense.  It's like saying, "remember WW2?  Germany must be the aggressor!"  Putin is making the only violent threats here, and Russia is the only country with a majority of its military in position to begin attacks on Ukraine at any moment.

Hypothetically even if the US _had_ done something to provoke Russia, they'd still be in the wrong for punishing peaceful Ukrainian citizens for it.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This doesn't make any sense.  It's like saying, "remember WW2?  Germany must be the aggressor!"  Putin is making the only violent threats here, and Russia is the only country with a majority of its military in position to begin attacks on Ukraine at any moment.
> 
> Hypothetically even if the US _had_ done something to provoke Russia, they'd still be in the wrong for punishing peaceful Ukrainian citizens for it.


If Germany and Israel were at bad terms and Germany insisted on the German army stationed in South Syria, it would indeed by an aggressive move due to history. Jews would say never again and immediately attack, no matter how peaceful the Syrians are in that scenario.

Making "the Ukraine" (as more and more people now call it; unknowingly questioning the existence of a Ukrainian people like in the "the Sahara") choose between EU and Russia was the first aggressive move by the West. Biden was in Ukraine in 2014, shaking hands with a man calling Russians subhumans (and speaking of a Russian invasion into Germany in World War 2 on German television). How about Russia sends diplomats to cheer on the next January 6th?

The Russian soul (and Ukrainians are Russians btw) has always been stuck between Europe and Asia. Instead of seeing them as a bridge, they are made to become a bridge head.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 20, 2022)

lol Funny how the "True Americans" that call for Stronger Boarder laws are the same ones stating its ok for Russia to go into Ukraine.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Making "the Ukraine" (as more and more people now call it; unknowingly questioning the existence of a Ukrainian people like in the "the Sahara") choose between EU and Russia was the first aggressive move by the West.


Good thing the US isn't making them do anything then.  Only Russia is forcing their hand on that decision.  They could spend the next fifty years considering their choices for all the US cared before this whole crisis.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Biden was in Ukraine in 2014, shaking hands with a man calling Russians subhumans


You'd have to clarify who you're talking about here, sounds like sensationalist nonsense to me.  I'll tell you who does treat Russians like subhumans, though: Putin.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How about Russia sends diplomats to cheer on the next January 6th?


That gave me a giggle.  Investigations into January 6th aren't finished, there's no guarantee Russia wasn't involved with the first one.  And they don't send "diplomats," they send mobsters.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Slow but steady.  Lots of people like you who think things will never get better and so we should never even try to improve them.
> 
> 
> Nope, not playing that game any more.  Your writing style betrays you as old, out of touch, and someone who listens to far too much Jordan Peterson.  All you're doing is supporting his pill addiction.
> ...


Abhorrent and racist to assume all black people say the same things, think the same things and speak the same way. Quite disgusting you continue to insinuate I am white. Atypical of a yank liberal.


----------



## Viri (Feb 20, 2022)

Welp, the Olympics are about to end, so now is it time for an invasion?


What confuses me is, if Russia does invade Ukraine, and conquers them, then what? They'll be stuck with a country that fucking hates them. They'll have to station troops all over Ukraine just to hold it, and they'll experience weekly terrorist attacks. Half the world is going to hate them.


How exactly does any of this benefit them?


----------



## Xzi (Feb 20, 2022)

MadonnaProject said:


> Abhorrent and racist to assume all black people say the same things


...I know, that's why I called you out for it.



MadonnaProject said:


> Atypical of a yank liberal.


'Atypical' means something is _not_ typical, just FYI. Which would be correct because I'm a democratic socialist and a registered independent.



Viri said:


> What confuses me is, if Russia does invade Ukraine, and conquers them, then what? They'll be stuck with a country that fucking hates them. They'll have to station troops all over Ukraine just to hold it, and they'll experience weekly terrorist attacks. Half the world is going to hate them.
> 
> 
> How exactly does any of this benefit them?


It doesn't really.  Putin's just looking for a temporary distraction from his problems at home in Russia.  That, or his nostalgia glasses are affixed so permanently to his head that he's crazy enough to believe he can actually re-assemble the USSR.


----------



## Viri (Feb 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It doesn't really.  Putin's just looking for a temporary distraction from his problems at home in Russia.  That, or his nostalgia glasses are affixed so permanently to his head that he's crazy enough to believe he can actually re-assemble the USSR.


Welp, I don't see him getting the Baltic states back. It's a shame the west even allowed Stalin to force them into the Soviet Union in the first place.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Feb 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> ...I know, that's why I called you out for it.
> 
> 
> 'Atypical' means something is _not_ typical, just FYI. Which would be correct because I'm a democratic socialist and a registered independent.


Oh my Lord, you're such an american idiot. You don't know how Brits speak, much less how sarcasm works do you?


Xzi said:


> It doesn't really.  Putin's just looking for a temporary distraction from his problems at home in Russia.  That, or his nostalgia glasses are affixed so permanently to his head that he's crazy enough to believe he can actually re-assemble the USSR.


----------



## chrisrlink (Feb 20, 2022)

living near 5 prime tagets in one freaking area in VA I worry we're sprobably second (maybe first if putin was smart about trying to nuke us) on putins list to nuke cause that would cripple our military by a good 25% at least


----------



## plasturion (Feb 21, 2022)

I guess no one wants this conflict besides politicans. What it gives, more ukraine citzens will transfer to ue area agian include Poland where situation was difficult already include salary so the stats graphs with progressed inflation maybe diceded them to make some stupid radical moves. Someone have to work to keep factory working for bowl of rice.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

Putin recognises Ukraine rebel regions as independent​Yup Putin wants to play..
1. Create a fake Crisis separatist areas
2. Claim Ethic Russia need to be protected 
3. Keep the territory. 
At This Point War seems likely. 
Ukriane needs to admission to NATO. ( Recently Polls stated Ukrainians are now more than ever in favor of NATO.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Putin recognises Ukraine rebel regions as independent​Yup Putin wants to play..
> 1. Create a fake Crisis separatist areas
> 2. Claim Ethic Russia need to be protected
> 3. Keep the territory.
> ...


Sadly this means conflict is almost certainly inevitable.  "Independent" means the same thing as "Russian-controlled" in Putin's mind.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 21, 2022)

That Minsk deal is dead then?


----------



## sley (Feb 21, 2022)

No matter what happens after this, democracy in Russia will be in an even worse state than before.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> That Minsk deal is dead then?


Minsk Deal was always a Russian long Con to destabilize the region.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 21, 2022)

If the people in those parts want to be Russian is not the USA business


----------



## Marc_LFD (Feb 21, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> If the people in those parts want to be Russian is not the USA business


Not surprising they would rather. This is between Ukraine and Russia, and no one else.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

Marc_78065 said:


> Not surprising they would rather. This is between Ukraine and Russia, and no one else.


Funny because about a month ago it was between Ukraine, Russia and NATO 

A month ago = it’s NATOs fault for allowing any country to join them.

Today = NATO is not involved, and should not help anyone ..wink wink 
Fascist trolls.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

Ukraine is a sovereign Nation, it should be able to call for help from a invading nation .


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Funny because about a month ago it was between Ukraine, Russia and NATO
> 
> A month ago = it’s NATOs fault for allowing any country to join them.
> 
> ...


Ukraine is part of Nato? to mee it seems more like a failure of the UN they are useless


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Ukraine is part of Nato? to mee it seems more like a failure of the UN they are useless


Oh I forget you’re  not programmed to understand world politics.. 
Ukraine wanted to be part of NATO, Russia disagree = current conflict .. 

And what the fuck does UN HAVE TO DO WITH NATO 
NATO =\= UN


----------



## linuxares (Feb 21, 2022)

They moved troops now to the new two "nations".
So yeah, it's now an invasion.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-21-22/index.html


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Oh I forget your not programmed to understand world politics..
> Ukraine wanted to be part of NATO, Russia disagree = current conflict ..
> 
> And what the fuck does UN HAVE TO DO WITH NATO
> NATO =\= UN


hey now i was told the Russian thing was fix by the man himself  
the Nato thing is meaningless now  if Europe wanted them to be in it they would have been so they have blamed too
also whats the UN job cuz right now is not working


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> hey now i was told the Russian thing was fix by the man himself
> the Nato thing is meaningless now  if Europe wanted them to be in it they would have been so they have blamed too
> also whats the UN job cuz right now is not working



Lol so your statement because you don’t like  the current US president so that means Russia is allowed to take over any Sovereign nation?
And your mad because the UN OR NATO (I still don’t think you understand the difference) has not acted in something that happened an hour ago?


----------



## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2022)

I imagine if the UN kicks russia out of there because of this they'll start firing nukes at every nato nation they can


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Lol so your statement because you don’t like  the current US president so that means Russia is allowed to take over any Sovereign nation?


o I know him and i know he failed big time on this and then he sent Kamala Harris i guess she did nothing because Putin made his move.

also whats the UN job il ask again


----------



## linuxares (Feb 21, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> I imagine if the UN kicks russia out of there they'll start firing nukes at every nato nation they can


They won't and the UN can't kick a permanent member.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 21, 2022)

linuxares said:


> They won't and the UN can't kick a permanent member.


so what your saying is the UN is as useless as the league of nations


----------



## linuxares (Feb 21, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> so what your saying is the UN is as useless as the league of nations


I've said that for a while. Their shouldn't be some members that have veto.
They're great as long it isn't a permanent member doing the shenanigans.


----------



## chrisrlink (Feb 21, 2022)

f-ing UN is USELESS it's a no brainer to kick out a genocidal maniac,whoever wrote that rule needs a serious pimp slap in the face i'm sorry but something's (rules) must be undone


----------



## MikaDubbz (Feb 21, 2022)

Marc_78065 said:


> Not surprising they would rather. This is between Ukraine and Russia, and no one else.


That's cute, imagine the US invading Mexico, and the rest of the world saying it isn't their problem while Mexico gets obliterated.

We're supposed to be well past the era of divide and conquer, and its definitely concerning that Russia is ignoring the memo.

I'm not saying there is a simple solution to dealing with what Putin is up to, but putting our fingers in our ears and turning a blind eye will only be "effective" for so long before Putin continues moving forward and makes it the direct problems of other nations.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 21, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> o I know him and i know he failed big time on this and then he sent Kamala Harris i guess she did nothing because Putin made his move.
> 
> also whats the UN job il ask again


 Wait please keep your trolls in track  
3 messages ago you were whining that Usa needs to butt out because it has nothing to do with them l





Valwinz said:


> If the people in those parts want to be Russian is not the USA business



But now your saying it’s USA FAULT For allowing Russia to do this ? 
Man your getting sloppy.
No one said UN BUT YOU this is a NATO ISSUE


----------



## Xzi (Feb 21, 2022)

linuxares said:


> They moved troops now to the new two "nations".
> So yeah, it's now an invasion.
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-21-22/index.html


Putin finally figured out that nobody is buying into all his false flag bullshit, and now the mask drops.  Zero humanity left in that man, he's gone completely hollow.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Feb 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Putin finally figured out that nobody is buying into all his false flag bullshit, and now the mask drops.  Zero humanity left in that man, he's gone completely hollow.


Putin is a thug, he hasn't had any humanity left in him for decades.  It's like he never left the Cold War.

As an aside, anyone ever look at Putin, and think that Mads Mikkelson would be the perfect man to play him in a movie or series or whatever?  The likeness is uncanny lol.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 21, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Putin is a thug, he hasn't had any humanity left in him for decades.  It's like he never left the Cold War.
> 
> As an aside, anyone ever look at Putin, and think that Mads Mikkelson would be the perfect man to play him in a movie or series or whatever?  The likeness is uncanny lol.


HEY! HEY! He might be Danish, but dude... no one wants to be associated with that piece of shit from Russia.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Feb 21, 2022)

linuxares said:


> HEY! HEY! He might be Danish, but dude... no one wants to be associated with that piece of shit from Russia.


Haha it's not meant to be a slight against Mads at all.  In fact, the man seems like he was genuinely born to play the villain in the vast majority of films that he does, and he nails it every time.  He's great at being the bad guy.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 21, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Haha it's not meant to be a slight against Mads at all.  In fact, the man seems like he was genuinely born to play the villain in the vast majority of films that he does, and he nails it every time.  He's great at being the bad guy.


Haha I know. Mads is great in Hannibal.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 21, 2022)

Here you and nothing will happen and putin knew it


----------



## Marc_LFD (Feb 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Funny because about a month ago it was between Ukraine, Russia and NATO
> 
> A month ago = it’s NATOs fault for allowing any country to join them.
> 
> ...


NATO, UN, EU... These organizations disguise themselves as "pro-freedom" and "pro-democracy," but they actually aren't.

Countries just need to take care of their own businesses. Period.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Feb 22, 2022)

Marc_78065 said:


> NATO, UN, EU... These organizations disguise themselves as "pro-freedom" and "pro-democracy," but they actually aren't.
> 
> *Countries just need to take care of their own businesses. Period.*


That'd be awesome.  Shame Russia isn't playing by those rules.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 22, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Here you and nothing will happen and putin knew it


Congrats  you have shed your fake Conservative American façade and Now a  true Russian shill


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 22, 2022)

I cant believe sending Kamala to Europe didnt work


----------



## pwjpssdfvqyuhweuxx (Feb 22, 2022)

BASED PUTIN
might as well take over the other shit eastern European countries, who cares about them


----------



## Xzi (Feb 22, 2022)

pwjpssdfvqyuhweuxx said:


> BASED PUTIN


Fuckin' CHUDs, smh.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 22, 2022)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237
The news reads: "Ukraine crisis: Russia orders troops into rebel-held regions" and that is a polite way to say that Russian troops are already inside Ukraine borders.

My guess now is that Putin will hold position for years while he starts the "Russialization" process (issuing passports, taking over radio and TV, messing with schools and all that stuff).

I don't believe in a hot conflict, as Putin already won in some way, but who knows.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 22, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237
> The news reads: "Ukraine crisis: Russia orders troops into rebel-held regions" and that is a polite way to say that Russian troops are already inside Ukraine borders.
> 
> My guess now is that Putin will hold position for years while he starts the "Russialization" process (issuing passports, taking over radio and TV, messing with schools and all that stuff).
> ...


you are right He already won got everything he wanted. why use force when it could get what it wanted by peaceful means? Donetsk and Luhansk had been seeking entry into the Russian Federation for years.


----------



## pustal (Feb 24, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Nothing is going to happen. just the west creating a storm in a glass of water.
> News are war mongering


Aged like milk.



djpannda said:


> Congrats  you have shed your fake Conservative American façade and Now a  true Russian shill



Can't say if Valwinzis directly shilling for Russia or just debitating alt-right propaganda, but they are not different things, only varies the degree of involveness and sometimes (I hope so, not to lose all faith in humanity) awareness.

This book comes to discussion each time Russia does something like this: 'The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia' - written in 1997, drafted by the Russian Ministry of Defence and that is used as a textbook to higher Russian officials. It sounds like crazy talk and was written by a lunatic but foreshadowed the russian influence in the years to come until now.

Quoting from the article:


> Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".



And it's not only the US:


> Military operations play relatively little role. The textbook advocates a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services.



From promoting in Europe the far right's discorse and even financing for the purpose of undermining Europe itself to going around investing in every foreign corner of the web.

You can go through the rest of the list in the article and see the progress:



> *Ukraine should be annexed by Russia*


(in progress since 2014 with the second incursion as of now)


> *The United Kingdom, merely described as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe*





> *Iran is a key ally.*





> *Armenia has a special role: It will serve as a "strategic base,"*





> *Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.*


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

I really belived that would be solely a pressure game from Russia, and that's because of the Russian economic challenges, that are kinda big.


----------



## Viri (Feb 24, 2022)

I don't think Putin is stupid enough to take the entire country. If he does, he'll have to deal with a huge country, filled with lots of angry people. Things don't just end when you invade and win a war. If he does, there is going to be a lot of terrorist attacks. Holding onto a country tends to be harder than actually invading a country.


Then again, I could always be wrong. lol


----------



## Viri (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> I really belived that would be solely a pressure game from Russia, and that's because of the Russian economic challenges, that are kinda big.


I didn't. He how handed the Crimea situation made it pretty obvious that he doesn't give a shit about sanctions.


----------



## Reiten (Feb 24, 2022)

Viri said:


> I didn't. He how handed the Crimea situation made it pretty obvious that he doesn't give a shit about sanctions.


He might not, but I'm wondering about his wealthy friends and supporters, upkeep of their lifestyle takes a lot of money and most of it isn't in Russia.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

Viri said:


> I didn't. He how handed the Crimea situation made it pretty obvious that he doesn't give a shit about sanctions.


Sanctions are ineffective against Russian, but I thought if that of the costs of the invasion itself. There was no significant military costs on Crimea for example. Other thought of mine was the fact that Putin achieved some goals just with the threat itself.

But it is clear that imperialism knows no limits. Sad.


----------



## Viri (Feb 24, 2022)

Poland's borders with Russia are about to get a lot bigger.





Spoiler







Politicians should know basic geography before getting into office. lol


----------



## Viri (Feb 24, 2022)

Spoiler









Well, I guess one country's ambassador is sticking around. lol


----------



## spoggi (Feb 24, 2022)

Someone should shoot gay putin in the face


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 24, 2022)

I guess Putin decided Europe would do nothing and went ahead


----------



## Viri (Feb 24, 2022)

Spoiler









I forgot how mentally ill the voice actor of Yukiko was. Also, she forgot the first Bush. lol


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 24, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Someone should shoot gay putin in the face


Do you wanna volunteer to do that? lol


----------



## spoggi (Feb 24, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Do you wanna volunteer to do that? lol


should be put down like a mad dog


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 24, 2022)

spoggi said:


> should be put down like a mad dog


Ok tough guy, I wish you the best of luck on your mission!


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 24, 2022)

A "Voice" from Austria:

It is a fucking Shame,that our corrupt Politicians have nothing better to do,condemning and demonizing Russia without even paying Attention to what this conflict is really about for these Countries...

For Austria´s Politics it is only about one Thing - the natural gas pipeline(s) and the concern that we will no longer get "our" natural gas..







...and "mabye" because of that many Ukrainian "Investors"......


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

The American conservatives went from 
US IS FEAR MONGERING-
To 
Russia is defending  itself from NATO
To 
Мать-Россия не сделала ничего плохого (Mother Russia did nothing wrong )


----------



## spoggi (Feb 24, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Ok tough guy, I wish you the best of luck on your mission!


What are you?
A russian immigrant who have fled your own country to live in the land of the free.
One who have fled the heavy sanctions the western world have put down on you.
You sound like a gay putin supporter


----------



## Jayro (Feb 24, 2022)

Welp... Time to release some drone strikes against some Ruskies...


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

djpannda said:


> The American conservatives went from
> US IS FEAR MONGERING-
> To
> Russia is defending  itself from NATO
> ...


and the whole USA, both conservatives and liberals went from "This is an area that is very far away from the US it’s not instability in Mexico or Venezuela, this is instability in a different part of the world, so I don’t think it gets the same sort of high-level attention" when Azerbaijan invaded Armenia to "United States and its Allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way" on Russian invasion of Ukraine.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 24, 2022)

Actual,China is very "reserved" and "waiting" behind that Corner....


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 24, 2022)

spoggi said:


> What are you?
> A russian immigrant who have fled your own country to live in the land of the free.
> One who have fled the heavy sanctions the western world have put down on you.
> You sound like a gay putin supporter


Oh yeah, I'm totes a Putin supporter. I'm not poking fun on how easy it is to act tough on the internet vs. real life or anything. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of evil people and dictators around the world and deserve what should be coming to them, but it's not like I have the means or skill to do so, and it's easy to say "I hope those bastards gets shot" while sitting on a swivel chair behind the screen.

Some people talk about Russia and Putin like they're in love and want to fuck them, rent free in their minds, but when I say I don't care what that stupid asshole fuck face does across the world I'm a Russian and Putin spy/supporter/shill/bot. Putin could drop dead right now and I'm pretty sure the world would be better off, but he really isn't a concern of mine at all.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> Actual,China is very "reserved" and "waiting" behind that Corner....


China is walking the fence right now. Waiting to see what will happen… 
Taiwan is a bit different as they do have Taiwan Relations Act that allows The US To intervene as a defense force


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 24, 2022)

It maybe sounds crazy,but if China "gets in",Europa maybe will be "next" on Russia´s March.....I do not think,they will "stay" behind Polands Borders.....


----------



## Viri (Feb 24, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> Actual,China is very "reserved" and "waiting" behind that Corner....


China probably secretly doesn't want Russia to take Ukraine, as that would make Russia stronger. In the long term China and Russia are rivals.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 24, 2022)

Viri said:


> China probably secretly doesn't want Russia to take Ukraine, as that would make Russia stronger. In the long term China and Russia are rivals.


Maybe we do not know "something"......it would not surprise me if "suddenly" China and Russia are getting "Allies"......


----------



## caki883 (Feb 24, 2022)

Finaly the killing of civilians and children in Donetsk and Luhansk are over. 8 years is enough. 
Thank you Putin
Nato did know what is Ukraine doing the whole time and did nothing. Now when Putin wants to make an end to the killings he is the Aggressor. LOL
Right now the Ukrainian secret service SBU of the Kiev regime burns files in the courtyard of the headquarters. Proof of there lies and killing


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

caki883 said:


> Finaly the killing of civilians and children in Donetsk and Luhansk are over. 8 years is enough.
> Thank you Putin
> Nato did know what is Ukraine doing the whole time and did nothing. Now when Putin wants to make an end to the killings he is the Aggressor. LOL
> Right now the Ukrainian secret service SBU of the Kiev regime burns files in the courtyard of the headquarters. Proof of there lies and killing


sorry, I can't see nothing on that picture, that is not an evidence of anything.


----------



## caki883 (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> sorry, I can't see nothing on that picture, that is not an evidence of anything.


can´t post it. Google " Ukraine is burning evidence"
This is an another video


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

caki883 said:


> can´t post it. Google " Ukraine is burning evidence"
> This is an another video



by Evidence,  do you mean State top secret Documents that every Country has and every Country has protocols to destroy if they are being invaded


----------



## laudern (Feb 24, 2022)

i bet all you woke fools wish Trump was still in power. If he was there this shit wouldn’t be happening. Elections have consequences and this I just one of many.


----------



## laudern (Feb 24, 2022)

i bet all you woke fools wish Trump was still in power. If he was there this shit wouldn’t be happening. Elections have consequences and this I just one of many.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

caki883 said:


> Finaly the killing of civilians and children in Donetsk and Luhansk are over. 8 years is enough.
> Thank you Putin
> Nato did know what is Ukraine doing the whole time and did nothing. Now when Putin wants to make an end to the killings he is the Aggressor. LOL
> Right now the Ukrainian secret service SBU of the Kiev regime burns files in the courtyard of the headquarters. Proof of there lies and killing


wait so are you stating that Russian Rebels have been killing Civilians and Children in Donetsk and Lunkansk? because they controlled those areas since 2014?


----------



## laudern (Feb 24, 2022)

This sums up the us position.


----------



## caki883 (Feb 24, 2022)

djpannda said:


> wait so are you stating that Russian Rebels have been killing Civilians and Children in Donetsk and Lunkansk? because they controlled those areas since 2014?


No the Ukraine is the aggressor the whole time


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

caki883 said:


> No the Ukraine is the aggressor the whole time


....how ? Ukriane has not set foot on Russian soil? its also has been Russian messing with Ukraine affairs for years


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 24, 2022)

If China gets into Taiwan and Russia also go "further",then maybe very hard Times for the US comes up as "Worldpolice"...maybe that´s the End of this "self proclaimed status".....

...also an attack on Taiwan makes the "Chipcrisis" more and more worst..


----------



## Tomato123 (Feb 24, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ....how ? Ukriane has not set foot on Russian soil? its also has been Russian messing with Ukraine affairs for years


I don't know too much on the situation but they're probably just talking out their ass. Never seen any evidence to prove it and they are only providing a blurry picture and a twitter post of some stuff burning. Hardly concrete evidence. What reason would they even have to do what they're claiming anyway? At best you could argue to try create some sort of dictatorship where people are following by fear. But that would be public knowledge by now if that was the case.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> If China gets into Taiwan and Russia also go "further",then maybe very hard Times for the US comes up as "Worldpolice"...maybe that´s the End of this "self proclaimed status".....
> 
> ...also an attack on Taiwan makes the "Chipcrisis" more and more worst..


I don't believe China will invade Taiwan anytime soon, but again I didn't believed that Russia would invade Ukraine, so who knows.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> I don't believe China will invade Taiwan anytime soon,



Chips for USA....


----------



## Tomato123 (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> I don't believe China will invade Taiwan anytime soon, but again I didn't believed that Russia would invade Ukraine, so who knows.


China seeing how well Russia is handling Ukraine might give them a confidence boost to go for it. They probably want to see how the world reacts to Russia invading Ukraine first before trying anything and if nothing too bad happens to Russia then they probably will do it.


----------



## Cortador (Feb 24, 2022)

caki883 said:


> can´t post it. Google " Ukraine is burning evidence"
> This is an another video




Isn't destroying documents containing national secrets to prevent it from getting into unauthorized hands standard procedure?

Nothing in that thread explains what is being burned exactly.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 24, 2022)

Last time I checked there aren´t millions of Americans living in Syria. Yet the Americans occupy large areas in Syria and steal their oil (shipping it to their troops in Iraq). No outrage, no sanctions against the US.

Oh and last time I checked Syria is not a neighbor of the US or historically related to them.
Israel occupying the Golan Heights and frequently attacking Syria seems to be fine as well.
Hypocrites.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Last time I checked there aren´t millions of Americans living in Syria. Yet the Americans occupy large areas in Syria and steal their oil (shipping it to their troops in Iraq). No outrage, no sanctions against the US.
> 
> Oh and last time I checked Syria is not a neighbor of the US or historically related to them.
> Israel occupying the Golan Heights and frequently attacking Syria seems to be fine as well.
> Hypocrites.


well ISrael obtained Golan Heights after Syria and most of the Islamic country attacked in the 7 day war. Heck Israel was able to obtain alot of LAND after that and give it all back for A peace Treaty ( Jordan Egypt) .. Syria refused to sign a peace Treaty . Israel has also stated it wanted a Peace Treaty


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 24, 2022)

Israel is enganging in what it sees as self preservation. Russia is doing the same at the moment. The US had a chance to give security guarantees to Russia and refused.

In a perfect world, there are no empires. But in reality, if you put hostile troops and weaponry at the belly of the US, a nuclear war is imminent. The same is true for Russia. 

Israel has a history with regards to the Golan Heights. But why don´t you condemn the US occupation of Syria? The US has no place in Syria.
Ukraine recently asked Seriba (which has positive relations with both sides) to condemn Russia but Serbia replied that Ukraine should first condem what the West did to Serbia. The truth is, Western countries were the ones began the practice of redrawing borders in Europe.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Israel is enganging in what it sees as self preservation. Russia is doing the same at the moment. The US had a chance to give security guarantees to Russia and refused.
> 
> In a perfect world, there are no empires. But in reality, if you put hostile troops and weaponry at the belly of the US, a nuclear war is imminent. The same is true for Russia.
> 
> ...


Your Comprasion is laughable

Israel(orange) vs every one in Green
vs
Russia (green) Ukriane (orange) 
Russia is soo scare of a country that is 5% of its size , and Mind you Urkiane already gave up its Nukes in 1994 so that Russia does not attack it.. so why is Russia afraid again? 






and funny how you left out the fact Russia is Actually in Syria


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 24, 2022)

-Russia was invited by Syria. (And yes, Ukraine could invite the US; but Russia is not a threat to America by being in Syria); futhermore, Russia is at least in the region - not far away halfway around the world
-It is not how big Ukraine is (vs Russia). It is about how close it is to Russia and who would be invited there.
-Ukraine gave up both assets and obligations. The Soviet nukes were Soviet. Russia is the only legal heir to the Soviet Union (including its debt which was finally repaid a few years ago).


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> -It is not how big Ukraine is (vs Russia). It is about how close it is to Russia and who would be invited there.


so your saying Poland (NATO) can justify Attack Russia because its on its Border with Lil'RUSSIA (Ukriane)


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

Tomato123 said:


> China seeing how well Russia is handling Ukraine might give them a confidence boost to go for it. They probably want to see how the world reacts to Russia invading Ukraine first before trying anything and if nothing too bad happens to Russia then they probably will do it.


That's very plausible, but still indicates that China will not make a move just yet. (I may be wrong, It's just my perception right now).


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> That's very plausible, but still indicates that China will not make a move just yet. (I may be wrong, It's just my perception right now).


China will most likely invade Taiwan within 5-10 years. It also depends if Xi Xing Ping gets re-elected for another 10 years or not. I believe the election in China didn't happen yet if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

caki883 said:


> Ukraine's Kiev regime illegally blocked the North Crimean Canal in 2015 in order to cut off the water supply to the Russian peninsula of Crimea. NOW IT`S FREE AGAIN
> Few minutes ago ukrainian military opened fire on the waterworks in the Petrovsky district of Donetsk around 58,000 people are now without running water.


Translation: Ukriane is fight back against Russian Invader and Russsan Rebels

So now Russia is claim NAZI for the invasion of Ukraine… at this point he just saying anything to justify invading a Sovereign nation… tommrow is going to be Aliens bodysnatched Ukraine Goverment


----------



## pustal (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> That's very plausible, but still indicates that China will not make a move just yet. (I may be wrong, It's just my perception right now).



The propaganda machine is already prepared at least:



> "Simply put, China has to back Russia up with emotional and moral support while refraining from treading on the toes of the United States and European Union," Ming Jinwei, a senior editor at the Xinhua News Agency, wrote in a WeChat blog cited by The Post. Xinhua is the official press agency of the Chinese government.
> 
> "In the future, China will also need Russia's understanding and support when wrestling with America to solve the Taiwan issue once and for all," the editor later added.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

Even Normal Russians aren't buying Putins BullSh#T
Thousands are protesting and getting Arrested for Speaking out (including Putins HomeTown) Russians are started to Turn against Their KGB overlord


----------



## sarkwalvein (Feb 24, 2022)

What a shitty time these last years, and now the cherry on the top, war.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 24, 2022)

"May you live in interesting times" definitely feels more like a threat these days than a blessing.  There's been only one whole decade in my life where we weren't at war.

The US is apparently deploying the entire unit of 8000 troops from Fort Carson (near where I live) to Germany.  A bomber has been doing test flights over head all day.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 24, 2022)

Xzi said:


> "May you live in interesting times" definitely feels more like a threat these days than a blessing.  There's been only one whole decade in my life where we weren't at war.
> 
> The US is apparently deploying the entire unit of 8000 troops from Fort Carson (near where I live) to Germany.  A bomber has been doing test flights over head all day.


Its a Nightmare.. WWIII all because Putin got Jealous that Ukraine stopped Playing with Russian and wanted to play with Nato


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Its a Nightmare.. WWIII all because Putin got Jealous that Ukraine stopped Playing with Russian and wanted to play with Nato


WWIII just because USA tried made with Ukraine the same of Soviet Union tried to do with Cuba.

It is same shit every time, two imperialist nations measuring their dicks at costs of whoever is in the middle.

CNN Brazil said today that USA have outside their borders 200,000 soldiers and alikes. I hope that info is not true, but if it is, how the hell this nation can pronounce the word "peace" without even turning red of shame?


----------



## Xzi (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> WWIII just because USA tried made with Ukraine the same of Soviet Union tried to do with Cuba.


Stop being a Putin apologist.  Russia is solely responsible for this unprovoked and illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.  They attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO of its own free will.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 24, 2022)

Well I gotta say, I was wrong on Russia invading Ukraine. At first I thought they only wanted those eastern territories like Putin said a few days ago, but I still waited before I said anything, but here we are now. I still don't care because it's still not our problem. Prayers to Ukraine, but for me, good luck. Our country itself is broken and in need of repair before we worry about anybody else world wide. Also, it seems after this, China invading Taiwan is getting even more likely, and maybe sooner than we think. And no I still don't side with Putin and Russia, I hope both burn, I just keep saying what that madman does is not our problem unless it comes to our shores first.

And of course, this is all Trump's fault. He's not the president anymore, but it's his fault because he left the white house now Russia invades. Good thing we got that tyrant out of office.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Stop being a Putin apologist.  Russia is solely responsible for this unprovoked and illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.  They attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO of its own free will.


Cuba wanted to install those missiles by their own free will too, and I believe you are American so you may know way better than me that USA also inflate a rebel action on Pig's Bay I believe, just like Putin did on Crimea for example. In the end there was no invasion on Cuba. Chile did not got the same luck tho. So USA is dirty outside their borders, while having a pretty strong democracy inside.

Russia is worst IMO because is evil inside their own borders too, but still, USA has no saying about peace.


----------



## Marc_LFD (Feb 24, 2022)

I'm personally not going to pick a "side" (as if it were a sport) nor do I think NATO/EU butting in will help, if anything, it'll just make it worse. Look at what they did to Libya.

The media is hyping this up to be the end of the world or world war three. They really have sick twisted minds.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 24, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Cuba wanted to install those missiles by their own free will too, and I believe you are American so you may know way better than me that USA also inflate a rebel action on Pig's Bay I believe, just like Putin did on Crimea for example. In the end there was no invasion on Cuba. Chile did not got the same luck tho. So USA is dirty outside their borders, while having a pretty strong democracy inside.


The US has no shortage of foreign policy blunders on its record, and the CIA has done some downright evil shit over the years, I'm not denying that.  The issue is that you're using it as whataboutism in this instance, as the US was showing no aggression toward anybody prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  We're also not going to have a modern parallel to draw on once Russia has totally taken over Ukraine.  It would've been like the US making Iraq and Afghanistan the 51st and 52nd states.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 24, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The US has no shortage of foreign policy blunders on its record, and the CIA has done some downright evil shit over the years, I'm not denying that.  The issue is that you're using it as whataboutism in this instance, as the US was showing no aggression toward anybody prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  We're also not going to have a modern parallel to draw on once Russia has totally taken over Ukraine.  It would've been like the US making Iraq and Afghanistan the 51st and 52nd states.


so USA already achieved forgiveness for all their sins just because they got old, super old, like 15 years old. I see, so if a nation has no aggression happening this exact second, than the forgiveness is automatic?

I'll not go any further because Russia indeed is doing some heavy aggression right now, they're killing right now. (USA kinda is too on their immigrant camps, but the Ukraine invasion is another scale of evilness).

I feel divided because Russia wants people around the world to deviate their attention just like I do a lot here, on other hand is disturbing to see the most aggressive nation in the world posing like peacekeepers.

In the end my opinion is that the invasion is indeed a violent move and Russia is to blame, but USA with their NATO idea and their ban on a gasoduct 7000 km away from their territory made the matters WAY WORST.


----------



## wartutor (Feb 25, 2022)

I still cant figure out why the fuck we dont just take these fucking scum out. Kill all these fuckin leaders and anyone following that doesnt treat people right. Russain, china, and north korean leaders. Just wait till they on stage, drone strike and boom fuck them all. Bomb any nation that disagrees. Soon noone will disagree. Shut up and get back in fuckin line. Biden with his dumb slap on the wrist...bet money within 6 months (probably within a week) china will do the same with Taiwan. Everyone knows biden is too weak and in their pocket so he wont do anything. Dont believe me look at hunters laptop.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 25, 2022)

wartutor said:


> I still cant figure out why the fuck we dont just take these fucking scum out. Kill all these fuckin leaders and anyone following that doesnt treat people right. Russain, china, and north korean leaders. Just wait till they on stage, drone strike and boom fuck them all. Bomb any nation that disagrees. Soon noone will disagree. Shut up and get back in fuckin line. Biden with his dumb slap on the wrist...bet money within 6 months (probably within a week) china will do the same with Taiwan. Everyone knows biden is too weak and in their pocket so he wont do anything. Dont believe me look at hunters laptop.


USA's opinion in a nutshell I guess...


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

wartutor said:


> I still cant figure out why the fuck we dont just take these fucking scum out. Kill all these fuckin leaders and anyone following that doesnt treat people right. Russain, china, and north korean leaders. Just wait till they on stage, drone strike and boom fuck them all. Bomb any nation that disagrees. Soon noone will disagree. Shut up and get back in fuckin line.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

The Bravery of those Soldiers are breath taking. I can only hope to have half the balls..
when presented with death.. they look directly at the Russian Invaders and told them::
* “Russian Warship, go fuck yourself”*


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

My respect to Ukrainians their they are fighting tooth and nail.. anywhere where Russia is only using soldiers not heavy machinery, that are getting taken down. Plenty of videos of Ukrainian CITIZENS capturing Russian soldiers and Russian soldiers runing away and leaving all their gear


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 25, 2022)

wartutor said:


> I still cant figure out why the fuck we dont just take these fucking scum out. Kill all these fuckin leaders and anyone following that doesnt treat people right. Russain, china, and north korean leaders. Just wait till they on stage, drone strike and boom fuck them all. Bomb any nation that disagrees. Soon noone will disagree. Shut up and get back in fuckin line. Biden with his dumb slap on the wrist...bet money within 6 months (probably within a week) china will do the same with Taiwan. Everyone knows biden is too weak and in their pocket so he wont do anything. Dont believe me look at hunters laptop.


tbh I'm for that at this point. Let all the nations in the world shoot nukes at each other and end humanity since we refuse to go forward anymore. So let's just go out with a bang at this point.


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> My respect to Ukrainians their they are fighting tooth and nail.. anywhere where Russia is only using soldiers not heavy machinery, that are getting taken down. Plenty of videos of Ukrainian CITIZENS capturing Russian soldiers and Russian soldiers runing away and leaving all their gear




You already had Russian platoons surrendered:



> "They didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians. They thought they were doing something else there,"



There are a lot of Russian people against the war, hence all the protests. I suspect that even the rise of Putin approval is simulated but time will tell. Meanwhile this is what happens when you send conscripted kids to a war they are not ready for nor they believe in.

Right now they don't have enough forces deployed to take Ukraine, but I think Putin is playing the waiting game. Increase forces when and if needed. He is aware that the allied forces are in a delicate situation, where action might start a war that might escalate quickly to everyone, so hardly anyone will want that. On the other hand innaction will create the popular divisiveness he so much likes to create. Look at this very thread where Putin appologist went from criticising Biden and Europe for the thought of meddling to calling him and them weak on a matter of few days.

Meanwhile Ukraine is alone:




Your browser is not able to display this video.




The plan is probably to push Ukraine into a corner where they'll have to make a lot of concessions like forgo of territory, sign a promise to give up joining NATO and even possibly cut on the army they've been building up. That would be a "peaceful" resolution that'd give Russia the victory and allow it to get away with murder.

If not, Putin can keep this up forever, he has plenty of bodies to feed the cannons, or just got tired of it and increase the offense.

Either way, for people with the heart and mind in the right place, they have ways up for them to be able to contribute.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

pustal said:


> You already had Russian platoons surrendered:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t think Putin can keep this up forever.. in fact that Russian economy is down 34% in a day. There have Record number of protest in Russia against the war. It might be time for Putin stranglehold to be over ..

Plus now even Anonymous   is fighting Putin (I say Putin not Russian because normal Russian don’t want this )


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I don’t think Putin can keep this up forever.. in fact that Russian economy is down 34% in a day. There have Record number of protest in Russia against the war. It might be time for Putin stranglehold to be over ..
> 
> Plus now even Anonymous   is fighting Putin (I say Putin not Russian because normal Russian don’t want this )


I hope to be wrong but Russia is not a democracy. Is not like that he is going to lose a fake election to an urimaniun poisoned candidate. Even if people protest and revolt, the key to a successful revolution is the support of the military. Like I pointed earlier, the military officials are indoctrinated in their eurasianist ultranationalism and also are well rewarded for their loyalty.

Protests will be disregarded, undercovered by their media and even painted with a negative tone. If that doesn't work, I wouldn't be surprised if they would be squished like in Tianmen Square.

The only pressure I see working is if too many oligarchs turn on him due to the international sanctions, but that didn't work before and they believe they can bully their way back and further to economic hegemony through oil needs and other resources.

As for Anonymous, that threat is relative to whoever call themselves Anonymous and join in. I don't think they are scared in that regard. Russia has claimed a safe haven for hackers on the condition they don't attack Russian targets and have financed many others acrossed the globe.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 25, 2022)

wartutor said:


> I still cant figure out why the fuck we dont just take these fucking scum out. Kill all these fuckin leaders and anyone following that doesnt treat people right. Russain, china, and north korean leaders. Just wait till they on stage, drone strike and boom fuck them all. Bomb any nation that disagrees. Soon noone will disagree. Shut up and get back in fuckin line. Biden with his dumb slap on the wrist...bet money within 6 months (probably within a week) china will do the same with Taiwan. Everyone knows biden is too weak and in their pocket so he wont do anything. Dont believe me look at hunters laptop.


You sound like you only consume Disney movies and CNN. If you were to take out the Chinese president, he would be replaced by another. You think Chinese unification is the ambition of one man? It is a Western fairytale that China or Russia are being held hostage by rogue leaders. Putin and Xi are an expression of the desire of their respective people, just like that weak Canadian president is an expression of Canada.


----------



## Searinox (Feb 25, 2022)

I condemn the tepid response of nations such as Germany for not providing enough weapons, opposing cutting Russia off SWIFT, and not going broader with their sanctions to both ban Russian flights on their territory as well as reduce diplomatic relations with Russia to the barest minimum.

Russia needs them more than they need Russia, and the alliance can surely work together and share to solve one anothers' hardships as a result of this move. The UK was a good example of what kind of sanctions to deal with. The US was somewhere in the middle and should have fully blocked Russia from all US dollar transactions.

I wonder what all they are waiting for. Germany said it's saving a SWIFT disconnect for the future, but Russia is already not listening. At this point the logic would be to keep escalating sanctions until they do listen, or all possible sanctions have been exhausted, whichever comes first.

My nation is for all the harshest punishments, and I think those who are should band together as a united bloc and either pressure the others or act by ourselves. Time would be on our side and such a decision would become more and more accepted rather than not.

Putin was also surprised by NATO's refusal to give an inch throughout negitiations, pressures, and threats. We should take this one step further and re-include a demand to step out of Crimea as integrally and as seamlessly as that to step out of Dontesk and Luhansk. Because honestly it's as unlikely to get heeded as everything else, but at least it will be consistent, principled, and outrage him more. Because he is playing a mind game and at a time when his pressure is being increased, the pushback should be more not less. Otherwise it signals to him that it is working.

Anyone reading this from Germany, France, and Italy, please e-mail or call your representatives and tell them to disconnect Russia from SWIFT. Tell them you'll remember their decision in the next election. After this atrocity, when the Ukrainian army is extinguished and Russia's puppet regime is put in place, there simply cannot, in any way, be a return to business as usual. How can it be more daunting to switch off an economic system than see people shelled to death?

Putin expected most of this. And he can win in Ukraine. But at the end, he can at least exit this latest confrontation with the rest of the world with an unpleasant shock and a fat lip. On that note, I wish Finland entered NATO. They know first-hand what it's like to be blackmailed into "neutrality" by Russia. It would be the ultimate middle finger for Putin if at the end of this whole ordeal, he now has more - not less - NATO border to be concerned about.


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

pustal said:


> There are a lot of Russian people against the war, hence all the protests. I suspect that even the rise of Putin approval is simulated but time will tell.


Yup:


> *Sending troops into Ukraine is unpopular*
> Sending arms or deploying Russian troops into Ukraine is unpopular — and has only become more so as Russians tire of the war Moscow and its proxies have waged in eastern Ukraine since 2014. According to our latest survey of 3,245 Russians in December, just 8 percent think Russia should send military forces to fight against Ukrainian government troops there. Only 9 percent think Russia should train or equip separatist forces with Russian arms.
> Does Putin really want regime change in Ukraine?
> Support for armed intervention has fallen by nearly half since 2016. And that drop has occurred among supporters of Putin’s United Russia Party, Communists and the nationalist LDPR party alike. Among those most nostalgic for the Soviet Union, for whom restoration of the Soviet sphere of influence could be expected to resonate most, fewer than 10 percent want to see Russian troops fight in Ukraine.


However:


> The surveys also suggest that while Russians do not want to annex Ukraine or to treat the West as an enemy, they do think it is important to resist NATO. At home, Putin has been emphasizing that NATO is to blame for the ratcheting up of tensions, and the public appears to share this view. Three in 4 Russians we surveyed think NATO will try to weaken their country if Putin does not stand up to it. Consistently over many years, surveys show that Russians see NATO as a threat even as they want good relations with the West.


Another thing that makes direct involvement really tricky: it could easily sway Russian popular opinion in favor of escalating things. Fighting a country that doesn't want to fight and fighting a country with its people united on it are two completely different beasts.


----------



## Dust2dust (Feb 25, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> just like that weak Canadian president is an expression of Canada.


There is no president in Canada.  Trudeau is a prime minister.  But yeah, I get your point and agree.  I hope he gets serious competition in the next election, which didn't happen in the last two.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 25, 2022)

It is very interesting how they now constantly speak of peoples (Völker) and the Ukrainian people (Volk) on German television. In past decades they have avoided the term like the plague (e.g. there is no German people, just a German population).


----------



## Xzi (Feb 25, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> so USA already achieved forgiveness for all their sins just because they got old, super old, like 15 years old.


I said absolutely nothing about forgiveness, so this feels like yet another variation of whataboutism.



lokomelo said:


> In the end my opinion is that the invasion is indeed a violent move and Russia is to blame, but USA with their NATO idea and their ban on a gasoduct 7000 km away from their territory made the matters WAY WORST.


The US did nothing to force Ukraine's hand on NATO membership, and the US does not have the power to cancel Germany's energy contracts.  You're still digging for any excuse to justify the actions of a madman...just stop.  A good excuse doesn't exist.  You might as well be claiming that Russia invaded because Biden sneezed recently, for as asinine as this is starting to get.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The US did nothing to force Ukraine's hand on NATO membership, and the US does not have the power to cancel Germany's energy contracts.  You're still digging for any excuse to justify the actions of a madman...just stop.  A good excuse doesn't exist.  You might as well be claiming that Russia invaded because Biden sneezed recently, for as asinine as this is starting to get.


EU countries are part of NATO. It goes hand in hand. In 2014 the US revealed their hand (s. Victoria Nuland, Joe Biden) regarding Ukraine. I believe the snipers were also American or American-funded. Russia had no interest in escalating the situation on the Maidan. Doctors (which the BBC admitted much later) revealed that both sides were shot by the same types of bullets. The investigation into this was put on hold by the new Ukrainian regime. The EU pushed Ukraine to decide between it and Russia. I doubt the Americans were not involved in this. The EU is America´s lackey.
And of course the US can force Germany to cancel its contracts. Are you kidding me? Trump put sanctions on all companies involved in the projects. Who knows what Germany had to do to get them lifted. Just so you know, the US can kidnap you and detain you indefinitely without a trial. The only countries in which the Americans possibly cannot do this are the so called axis of evil.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 25, 2022)

Is this a common sentiment in the US or is it fringe?


----------



## dude1 (Feb 25, 2022)

Dust2dust said:


> There is no president in Canada.  Trudeau is a prime minister.  But yeah, I get your point and agree.  I hope he gets serious competition in the next election, which didn't happen in the last two.


Won’t matter if he does, the way our current first past the post systems districts are all written up basically if Ontario and to a lesser extent Quebec want Trudeau, Trudeau wins.
but let’s be serious even if the “conservatives “ win they Are “liberal lite” those two parties platforms are almost identical in theory and functionally identical 

they’re just crony capitalists, The definition of establishment elites and the uni-party.

but let’s be real, it’s not like the NDP has had a real chance & in the last few elections they’ve just been liberal lapdogs compromising their principles without any concessions and just siding with them.
they might just end up being as corrupt as the liberals,  Who knows.
 they just haven’t been given the opportunity so until they get a majority I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
so I’d vote for NDP  before the other two especially if my riding remains a swing district, otherwise I’d have to vote PPC (even though that’s more of a protest vote then being functional for now.)

But without the election reform that Trudeau promised and they never delivered on I doubt we’ll ever get a Center-right libertarian party like the PPC or something like that (especially with how they’re lied about in the media ) even though that  would be an actual change in pace.

without doing that drastic of a change just expect more of the status quo with the uni-party and they’re controlled opposition slowly meandering towards the same goals.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 25, 2022)

Marc_78065 said:


> I'm personally not going to pick a "side" (as if it were a sport) nor do I think NATO/EU butting in will help, if anything, it'll just make it worse. Look at what they did to Libya.
> 
> The media is hyping this up to be the end of the world or world war three. They really have sick twisted minds.


Except Libya is sadly a third world country where they think Religion is a good way to control a country...


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 25, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Except Libya is sadly a third world country where they think Religion is a good way to control a country...


God Bless America?


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## linuxares (Feb 25, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> God Bless America?


I don't need to express my views on what I feel about the US


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 25, 2022)

linuxares said:


> I don't need to express my views on what I feel about the US


Oh ... pffft, c'mon... *they won't do anything to you*.

Unless it's a movie.


----------



## dude1 (Feb 25, 2022)

Being ethnically half Ukrainian half Russian I am of two minds on this,  on one hand historically the majority of the Ukraine sovereign nation that we know of today has been part of Russia for the majority of recorded history whether it be the Russian empire or the USSR etc. or one of the many satellite states around it, it was really only created to be a large puppet state for the Soviets in its current state.
So it’s like if Putin hypothetically took over the majority of the country leaving only the city state of Kiev for the historical Kievian-rus people, there is  historical precedent for him to wanted to do so.

there is also the fact that in recent history in 2014 Pro Russian elected Head of Ukraine was ousted in favour of a presumed western/NATO puppet leader installed by the Western aligned countries.

on the other hand, I don’t want war and I don’t want the West drug into a regional conflict.
The sad fact is in modern politics the Ukraine is not a NATO member and the US and Canada should stay out of it along with the other NATO states (sure build up deterants so he won’t hit a NATO member after the fact, if he does then we’re drug into World War III whether we like it or not)

I do think it would be stupid for the west kick Russia off of Swift like some are  suggesting, if you want World War III that’s how you’ll get it make them feel like they have nothing left to lose.
not to mention they’re being bankrolled by China, so if the West really doesn’t want World War III don’t sanction Russia, sanction China because they’re the piggybank, Russia is just a guns.

also crypto exists so it’s not like if you fully cut off every traditional bank they wouldn’t be able to get money out especially considering they have cold climates and an over abundance of energy especially if they cut off Europe,  which is likely to happen if NATO countries butt into a non-NATO regional conflict.


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## linuxares (Feb 25, 2022)

@dude1 so should Sweden get back Finland then?


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## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Is this a common sentiment in the US or is it fringe?



Thats what Ultra Right wing Conservatives wanted to project mostly because anything against President Biden.
Most Normal Right Conservatives are not for this conflict.
the problem is the Normal Conservatives are being slient and all your hearing is the American Nazis sect.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

linuxares said:


> @dude1 so should Sweden get back Finland then?


Wait does that mean Most of Southwest USA goes back to MEXico.. a Good chuck Texas was stated to get on my nerves


----------



## Viri (Feb 25, 2022)

Spoiler







That's kind of spooky. 


Also, I knew Putin would invade. I just don't think he'll take the whole country, as that would be a nightmare to hold onto. He's not an idiot. But hey, who knows?


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

Hey, look! A war crime!





Your browser is not able to display this video.




Come on guys, doesn't help the Russian stereotype vodka drunk driving a war tank into war crime...

Also, you can definitely tell Putin is the good guy when he threatens to create a trans-continental radiation crisis:



> Russia wants to control the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to signal NATO not to interfere militarily, the same source said.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

pustal said:


> Hey, look! A war crime!
> 
> View attachment 299544
> 
> ...


Russia officially the Bad Guy of WWIII


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 25, 2022)

The stupidity of the current US admin knows no bounds  they set up Ukrain to be devoured im trying to understand why they would do this


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Russia officially the Bad Guy of WWIII


But... but... The blonde ladies on TV tell me that he is the good guy because he believes in Jeebus. You can't be a bad guy if you say you believe in Jeebus, right? As long as you betray the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th and 10th commandments in a Christian way, you have a fast pass right into heaven, right?


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Is this a common sentiment in the US or is it fringe?



"Thats what Ultra Right wing Conservatives wanted to project mostly because anything against President Biden.
Most Normal Right Conservatives are not for this conflict.
the problem is the Normal Conservatives are being slient and all your hearing is the American Nazis sect."

I would like to add "Russian Shills" also Please see below for example


Valwinz said:


> The stupidity of the current US admin knows no bounds  they set up Ukrain to be devoured im trying to understand why they would do this


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 25, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> The stupidity of the current US admin knows no bounds  they set up Ukrain to be devoured im trying to understand why they would do this



Good luck. Once you've figured it out, they will have committed a dozen more crimes.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

pustal said:


> But... but... The blonde ladies on TV tell me that he is the good guy because he believes in Jeebus. You can't be a bad guy if you say you believe in Jeebus, right? As long as you betray the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th and 10th commandments in a Christian way, you have a fast pass right into heaven, right?


I would like to Point out This only applied to what people are calling "Republican Jesus" AKA White Nationalist. and Should not be applied to Christianity  as a whole
the issue is Normal Christian are Complict in their silence by allow "Republican Jesuses" to speak for them.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 25, 2022)

Says the


djpannda said:


> "Thats what Ultra Right wing Conservatives wanted to project mostly because anything against President Biden.
> Most Normal Right Conservatives are not for this conflict.
> the problem is the Normal Conservatives are being slient and all your hearing is the American Nazis sect."
> 
> I would like to add "Russian Shills" also Please see below for example


Says the Shill defending stupidity that led to this. man, I guess Kamala's master moves did not help i guess tweeting Putin did not help. Putin is hours away from the capital as Ukrain say they were abandoned.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

The Hypocrisy of your "under the Bridge" life Is fascinating 
monday- AMERICAN NEEDS TO BUTT OUT


Valwinz said:


> If the people in those parts want to be Russian is not the USA business



Today -AMERICANS Fault for not butting in 


Valwinz said:


> Says the
> 
> Says the Shill defending stupidity that led to this. man, I guess Kamala's master moves did not help i guess tweeting Putin did not help. Putin is hours away from the capital as Ukrain say they were abandoned.


.You are a walking contradiction.
Thing I have yet to find out is if your a paid Russian shill or just one that wants to see the world burn?


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I would like to Point out This only applied to what people are calling "Republican Jesus" AKA White Nationalist. and Should not be applied to Christianity  as a whole
> the issue is Normal Christian are Complict in their silence by allow "Republican Jesuses" to speak for them.


US right made up the Supply Side Jesus and now the far right unburied crusader Jesus from the Vatican, Frankensteined war-mongering Jesus and lend it to the Orthodox. Meanwhile the historic Jesus Christ turns in his grave wherever it is and the Bible Jesus Christ weeps in heaven.

This year Shadow Moon will have an interesting Easter feast.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 25, 2022)




----------



## linuxares (Feb 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Wait does that mean Most of Southwest USA goes back to MEXico.. a Good chuck Texas was stated to get on my nerves


And the UK got a lot of territory to reclaim


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

linuxares said:


> And the UK got a lot of territory to reclaim


"I, for one, Welcome Our New British Overlords"


----------



## djpannda (Feb 25, 2022)

really..I guess WWIII started because Russia Messed with the SteamDECK production..


----------



## Xzi (Feb 25, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In 2014 the US revealed their hand (s. Victoria Nuland, Joe Biden) regarding Ukraine. I believe the snipers were also American or American-funded. Russia had no interest in escalating the situation on the Maidan.


Baseless conspiracy theories.  "Russia didn't want to take the land that they've occupied ever since?"  Give me a break.  It's incredibly obvious now that Crimea was just a test run for the whole of Ukraine.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And of course the US can force Germany to cancel its contracts. Are you kidding me? Trump put sanctions on all companies involved in the projects.


Sounds like you're thinking of contracts between the US and Germany.  Of course we have a say in those.  We have no say in energy contracts between Germany and Russia, and that's the topic at hand.  Germany chose to cancel those contracts of their own free will, as punishment for Russia invading.



djpannda said:


> really..I guess WWIII started because Russia Messed with the SteamDECK production..


Steam Deck uses AMD hardware though, lol.


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

I guess Sweden and Finland are next:



> If either Nordic country sought to join the security alliance it "would have serious military and political consequences that would require our country to take reciprocal steps, a spokesperson for the Russian foreign ministry said



In other words, "screw the sovereignity of other nations, our will will be sovereign at gun point". Can't wait to listen to Russian propaganda say Putin is the savior that is pacifying the Nordics.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 25, 2022)

pustal said:


> I guess Sweden and Finland are next:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, "screw the sovereignity of other nations, our will will be sovereign at gun point". Can't wait to listen to Russian propaganda say Putin is the savior that is pacifying the Nordics.


Christ, at this rate they'll be threatening invasion of Canada by the end of next week.  Putin is off his fucking rocker.


----------



## AdenTheThird (Feb 25, 2022)

I think the situation should not be taken lightly, as unchecked power is a dangerous thing. Generally, though, it seems like most countries are pretty desperate for peace (Putin's war-hawk philosophy seems to have put him in a minority) so I'm not terribly concerned. News networks love the opportunity to brand something as doomsday.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 25, 2022)

did they ban Russia from the SWIFT yet ?  or are they still dragging their feet?


----------



## pustal (Feb 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Christ, at this rate they'll be threatening invasion of Canada by the end of next week.  Putin is off his fucking rocker.



I think Putin became one of those crazy evangelicals craving for the rapture.

Both Sweden and Finland are covered by the Treaty of Lisbon. It is vague but it'd justify response from the rest of the EU, including France, a nuclear power.

If he is not bluffing, either he thinks other EU states, including France would bail on the vagueness of the treaty, or he is really craving for a MAD scenario. He certainly is pushing in that direction.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 25, 2022)

It seems they are talking ceasefire


----------



## AdenTheThird (Feb 25, 2022)

Do you have a source?


Valwinz said:


> It seems they are talking ceasefire


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 25, 2022)

AdenTheThird said:


> Do you have a source?


from the BBC


> A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
> 
> He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62194afd0ce87e491a0ed0aa&Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire&2022-02-25T21:33:53.261Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:ac8d5bc3-8907-40e5-ae52-f98a0fbdaca6&pinned_post_asset_id=62194afd0ce87e491a0ed0aa&pinned_post_type=share


----------



## Tomato123 (Feb 25, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> did they ban Russia from the SWIFT yet ?  or are they still dragging their feet?


For some reason, nope.


djpannda said:


> Thats what Ultra Right wing Conservatives wanted to project mostly because anything against President Biden.
> Most Normal Right Conservatives are not for this conflict.
> the problem is the Normal Conservatives are being slient and all your hearing is the American Nazis sect.


As someone who would consider themselves a "right conservative", I agree. Myself and friends who also consider themselves part of that group are not on Russia's 'side'. (Though I am not American, but they seem to be keeping fairly silent here too in UK from what I've seen.)


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 25, 2022)

For me, I'm enjoying the cringe and shallowness from celebrities, politicians and "news casters" alike. This video combines the best tidbits of all the responses from the celebrities that are going to "save" all of us from this Ukraine disaster. I feel bad for the Ukrainian people, but good lord, never let a good crisis go to waste with mountains of stupidity.


----------



## Milenko (Feb 25, 2022)

https://www.9news.com.au/world/russ...n-in-car/1196baea-27f2-4b3b-8669-f546f5dd4814

He survived amazingly, why is this not being talked about

Edit: oh it was posted on the last page but why isn't the world flipping out over it


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 26, 2022)

while people are dying Panda here is crying about orange man and the conservatives


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Baseless conspiracy theories.  "Russia didn't want to take the land that they've occupied ever since?"  Give me a break.  It's incredibly obvious now that Crimea was just a test run for the whole of Ukraine.


Your quote is a baseless conspiracy theory. Russia had no interest in escalating the Maidan situation. Neither did the former president who fled the country. So who were those snipers? Only the US or Ukrainian extremists would benefit from an escalation. The former president was declared as pro-Russian, the Eastern Ukrainians as Russians whose rights were trampled upon (cutting off water supplies in Crimea, removing the Russian language was announced very swiftly). To be honest, I am surprised it took 8 years for Russia to actualy invade. In Crimea, they were already stationed there. The US launched a war against Panama in order to protect 30 thousand Americans. Russia waited 8 years to protect millions of Russians before launching a war.



Xzi said:


> Sounds like you're thinking of contracts between the US and Germany.  Of course we have a say in those.  We have no say in energy contracts between Germany and Russia, and that's the topic at hand.  Germany chose to cancel those contracts of their own free will, as punishment for Russia invading.


The US has immense economic power due to the USD being the reserve currency. Yes, Germany put the project on hold because Germans fought hard in WW1 and WW2 to separate Russian lands.


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> while people are dying Panda here is crying about orange man and the conservatives



While people are dying, the orange man an the conservatives are praising the perpetrator


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> while people are dying Panda here is crying about orange man and the conservatives


People have been dying in the Lugansk and Donetsk for 8 years. The 13000 deaths are mostly casualties in that region. Liveleak was full of blown up civilians in the streets. Only if Russia does this to its people (see Chechnya), does it bother the West. It is always for separatism within Russia (and actively tries to foster it), but against separatism in Ukraine and other anti-Russian states.
Free Catalonia, free Scotland.


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> People have been dying in the Lugansk and Donetsk for 8 years. The 13000 deaths are mostly casualties in that region. Liveleak was full of blown up civilians in the streets. Only if Russia does this to its people (see Chechnya), does it bother the West. It is always for separatism within Russia (and actively tries to foster it), but against separatism in Ukraine and other anti-Russian states.
> Free Catalonia, free Scotland.


https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-repeats-long-running-claim-genocide-ukraine/


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

pustal said:


> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-repeats-long-running-claim-genocide-ukraine/


Use your own words. I have not spoken of Genocide. I claim that of the casualities 13000 (or so) since 2014, the majority has been on the side of Eastern Ukrainians (in Lugansk and Donetsk). It is a fact.
When a lot Eastern Ukrainians were burnt to death in a building in Odessa, the German president Steinmeier (foreign minister at the time) wanted to lay down flowers for the victims but was too afraid of the Ukrainian nationalists.


----------



## AmandaRose (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Free Catalonia, free Scotland.


Keep Scotland out of this battle please my country had a vote and we decided to rightly stay part of the United Kingdom thank you very much


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Use your own words. I have not spoken of Genocide. I claim that of the casualities since 13000, the majority has been on the side of Eastern Ukrainians (in Lugansk and Donetsk). It is a fact.
> When a lot Eastern Ukrainians were burnt to death in a building in Odessa, the German president Steinmeier (foreign minister at the time) wanted to lay down flowers for the victims but was too afraid of the Ukrainian nationalists.


You claim that people have been dying for 8 years. A lot of people died in 2014 to 2016 after the Russian instigated insurrection in the region. The forces maintained active but civilian casualties dropped immensely. And as you can read in the article they are not target but colateral from both sides of the conflict. You tend to get that in a war or gerrilla zone. There was and is conflict there because of Russia, it's obviously not a justification for Russian invasion.

The Odessa building fire you are referring to btw, was occupied by separatist forces and was attacked - not by Ukrainian army forces but by activists. A lot of the 2014 war and today's war as well is fought not only by the army but by the civilians defending their country. You are mudding the waters.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Use your own words. I have not spoken of Genocide. I claim that of the casualities since 13000, the majority has been on the side of Eastern Ukrainians (in Lugansk and Donetsk). It is a fact.
> When a lot Eastern Ukrainians were burnt to death in a building in Odessa, the German president Steinmeier (foreign minister at the time) wanted to lay down flowers for the victims but was too afraid of the Ukrainian nationalists.


Sources? For me a lot of this sounds like pure bs.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> Keep Scotland out of this battle please my country had a vote and we decided to rightly stay part of the United Kingdom thank you very much


45% wanted to leave. A large enough bases for China or Russia to intervene non-militarily. Western countries should mind their own business before China or Russia get ideas.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> 45% wanted to leave. A large enough bases for China or Russia to intervene non-militarily. Western countries should mind their own business before China or Russia get ideas.


That's not how a democracy work. Well you probably never known one but still.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Sources? For me a lot of this sounds like pure bs.


I am the source. You can take it or leave it. I remember news on TV and in newspaper about this.
This website (which I do not know) has documented an article from "the Handelsblatt" I remember:
-snip-
Look for the word "Kranz" (floral wreath in German).


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am the source. You can take it or leave it. I remember news on TV and in newspaper about this.
> This website (which I do not know) has documented an article from "the Handelsblatt" I remember:
> -snip-
> Look for the word "Kranz" (floral wreath in German).


Sorry for not trusting someone from China as a credible source on eastern European matters. I prefer proper news sources.

Also why would I check a German newspaper for Brazilians?
Also it runs outdated software. I will remove the URL in this case for safety of our users. We normally don't do this but that site seems to be a virus host, waiting to happen.

EDIT: It's a propaganda news paper from China. So nothing to see folks. Just full of misinformation.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

pustal said:


> You claim that people have been dying for 8 years. A lot of people died in 2014 to 2016 after the Russian instigated insurrection in the region. The forces maintained active but civilian casualties dropped immensely. And as you can read in the article they are not target but colateral from both sides of the conflict. You tend to get that in a war or gerrilla zone. There was and is conflict there because of Russia, it's obviously not a justification for Russian invasion.
> 
> The Odessa building fire you are referring to btw, was occupied by separatist forces and was attacked - not by Ukrainian army forces but by activists. A lot of the 2014 war and today's war as well is fought not only by the army but by the civilians defending their country. You are mudding the waters.


If you cut the water supply to a region, I´d call it targeting civilians. Wouldn´t you?
The people who died in the Odessa building fire were murdered. They were stopped from leaving. I remember some who made it out and were beaten and kicked in the head by a crowd. The "activists" were laughing as people burnt alive. You can call them activists but it just reveals your bias. Compared to the American Jan6 freedom fighters (see how I can play this game too?), the Ukrainian "activists" are Nazis... oh wait, they actually are (as can be found in the link I just posted: strg+F "Hitlergruß").


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Sorry for not trusting someone from China as a credible source on eastern European matters. I prefer proper news sources.


I am actually a Jew. Have you always been antisemitic?


linuxares said:


> Also why would I check a German newspaper for Brazilians?
> Also it runs outdated software. I will remove the URL in this case for safety of our users. We normally don't do this but that site seems to be a virus host, waiting to happen.


The source was the German newspaper called Handelsblatt. I hope at least the raw text does not constitute a security risk. 
"Kein Kranz für die Opfer von Odessa
Steinmeier verzichtet auf Beileidsbekundung und hofft auf nationalen Dialog in der Ukraine"


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you cut the water supply to a region, I´d call it targeting civilians. Wouldn´t you?
> The people who died in the Odessa building fire were murdered. They were stopped from leaving. I remember some who made it out and were beaten and kicked in the head by a crowd. The "activists" were laughing as people burnt alive. You can call them activists but it just reveals your bias. Compared to the American Jan6 freedom fighters (see how I can play this game too?), the Ukrainian "activists" are Nazis... oh wait, they actually are (as can be found in the link I just posted: strg+F "Hitlergruß").


Uhm... you know the president of Ukraine is a Jew right?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am actually a Jew. Have you always been antisemitic?
> 
> The source was the German newspaper called Handelsblatt. I hope at least the raw text does not constitute a security risk.
> "Kein Kranz für die Opfer von Odessa
> Steinmeier verzichtet auf Beileidsbekundung und hofft auf nationalen Dialog in der Ukraine"


Uhm yes? The software is still out of date, like seriously out of date. It's a risk for anyone to visit that site.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Uhm... you know the president of Ukraine is a Jew right?


The "I am not a racist, I have a black friend" argument?


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The "I am not a racist, I have a black friend" argument?


You just are contradicting yourself and I'm pointing it out.
As far as all sources you pointed out are a Chinese propaganda site, I can't take anything you say seriously.


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you cut the water supply to a region, I´d call it targeting civilians. Wouldn´t you?
> The people who died in the Odessa building fire were murdered. They were stopped from leaving. I remember some who made it out and were beaten and kicked in the head by a crowd. The "activists" were laughing as people burnt alive. You can call them activists but it just reveals your bias. Compared to the American Jan6 freedom fighters (see how I can play this game too?), the Ukrainian "activists" are Nazis... oh wait, they actually are (as can be found in the link I just posted: strg+F "Hitlergruß").


So you steal land and the last owner still has to play for the water bill? No, I don't call that targeting civilians.

And playing what game? Where did you see me engaging in whataboutism? And for the love of god, the level of ridiculousness in calling American insurrectionists freedom fighters and comparing them to the Ukrainian activists. If you want to draw a paralel, the American insurrectionists would be in line with eastern-ukranian Russian backed insurrectionists. Both insurrectionists, both Russian backed in their own ways.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

What are "all sources"? I have only posted that German-Brazilian site. Do you know the concept of plural?
The raw text is of Handelsblatt, a well-known economy newspaper. How is the raw text a security threat?


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What are "all sources"? I have only posted that German-Brazilian site. Do you know the concept of plural?
> The raw text is of Handelsblatt, a well-known economy newspaper. How is the raw text a security threat?


So wait, I ask you for as source, for a burning building and you link me a Economical newspaper that is run by some Chinese person doing CCP's business?

EDIT: Dude, it doesn't even have HTTPS. It's a very unsecure site.

https://archive.is/XM8wk - for those who wanna read it.


EDIT2: After looking up more about the site.
He is a full on nutjob that used to have the site. It's not a legit news source. It's a blog.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

At this point all that’s left after Chinese and Russian sponsored Trolls.. even normal GBATemp trolls can’t defend Putins War crimes


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

If you assume I just make up stories, there is no basis for a discussion.
I found another link. You can only access the headline for free. It reads: German foral wreath for Odessa remains its suitcase. There is a picture of the German president (Foreign Minister that the time)
https://www.schwaebische.de/ueberre...-odessa-bleibt-im-gepaeck-_arid,10011628.html


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> while people are dying Panda here is crying about orange man and the conservatives


Wow nice deflection … you always run away when poeple point out the garbage your spew
The Hypocrisy of your "under the Bridge" life Is fascinating 
monday- AMERICAN NEEDS TO BUTT OUT


Valwinz said:


> If the people in those parts want to be Russian is not the USA business



Today -AMERICANS Fault for not butting in 


Valwinz said:


> Says the
> 
> Says the Shill defending stupidity that led to this. man, I guess Kamala's master moves did not help i guess tweeting Putin did not help. Putin is hours away from the capital as Ukrain say they were abandoned.


.You are a walking contradiction.
Thing I have yet to find out is if your a paid Russian shill or just one that wants to see the world burn?


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you assume I just make up stories, there is no basis for a discussion.
> I found another link. You can only access the headline for free. It reads: German foral wreath for Odessa remains its suitcase. There is a picture of the German president (Foreign Minister that the time)
> https://www.schwaebische.de/ueberre...-odessa-bleibt-im-gepaeck-_arid,10011628.html


What’s your point? Articles of horrible crimes ?
Your deflecting for the War Crimes being committed by Putins dogs
Here’s the same thing in china

Police in China arrest man carrying bloodstained luggage containing the dead body of a woman​


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

djpannda said:


> What’s your point? Articles of horrible crimes ?


My point is this: Ukraine is not a democracy. It does not share Western values except the hatred for Russia. Its corrupt government has let radical elements free reign in attacking peaceful cities in the Eastern Ukraine for 8 years. If there should be self-determination for Chechnya, Tibet, Xinjiang, why not for Donetsk and Lugansk? The Ukrainian government has always denied those regions autonomy while remaining part of Ukraine. The simple truth is the West has no ethics, just interests. Namely to cut Russia and China to pieces. It will look the other way, even if it means supporting actual Nazis or radical Islamists. The whole Western world has accepted that Ukraine is to Russia what Cuba is to the US. Otherwise their would be weapons and soldiers coming in. If you want to fight for THE Ukraine, go ahead and book a flight to Poland.


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

Kazakhstan, one of Russia's closest ally, refuses to aid Russia and even to recognize separatist's independence.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 26, 2022)

pustal said:


> While people are dying, the orange man an the conservatives are praising the perpetrator


Nobody is so nice try 
calling  Joe an incompetent does not mean praising putting nice try


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Nobody is so nice try
> calling  Joe an incompetent does not mean praising putting nice try



Orange man:


> Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday praised Russian President Vladimir Putin's decision to send Russian troops into Ukraine to support Russian-backed separatists in the Luhansk and Donetsk provinces. In an appearance on the right-wing talk radio program "the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," Trump broke his conspicuous silence on the crisis to applaud the Russian dictator.
> 
> "This is genius," he said of Putin's decision on Monday to officially recognize the breakaway provinces and authorize the use of Russian military personnel to assist them. "So Putin is now saying it’s independent — a large section of Ukraine. I said, how smart is that? And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace, all right."
> 
> Trump is a long-standing fan of Putin's. In 2013, he wondered on Twitter if the Russian autocrat would attend his Miss Universe pageant in Moscow and whether the two would become "best friends." Putin did not show up. In the following years, Trump repeatedly spoke highly of Putin's strategic acumen, noted the strongman's intention to "re-build the Russian Empire" and defended Putin's habit of killing dissidents and journalists, arguing that the United States does the same thing.





> It is unclear exactly what Trump would like the U.S. military to do on the southern U.S. border.
> 
> Trump went on to heap more praise on Putin and to claim that Russia would have been less aggressive if he were still in the White House.
> 
> "No, but think of it," the former president continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy. I know him very well — very, very well. By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, 'You know, I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent.' He used the word 'independent.' 'And we’re gonna go out, and we’re gonna in, and we’re gonna help keep peace.'”



Other conservatives:



subcon959 said:


> Is this a common sentiment in the US or is it fringe?





While mouthpieces white wash Putin:


> Mr. Carlson has taken an isolationist approach in the lead-up to the invasion. On Tuesday night, he asserted that Democrats believed Americans had a “patriotic duty to hate Vladimir Putin,” but questioned why the Russian president had been vilified.
> “It might be worth asking yourself, since it is getting pretty serious: What is this really about? Why do I hate Putin so much?” Mr. Carlson said. He added, “Has he shipped every middle class job in my town to Russia?” He also argued that Ukraine was not a democracy.
> “But Joe Biden likes Ukraine, so Putin bad, war good,” Mr. Carlson said.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> My point is this: Ukraine is not a democracy. It does not share Western values except the hatred for Russia. Its corrupt government has let radical elements free reign in attacking peaceful cities in the Eastern Ukraine for 8 years. If there should be self-determination for Chechnya, Tibet, Xinjiang, why not for Donetsk and Lugansk? The Ukrainian government has always denied those regions autonomy while remaining part of Ukraine. The simple truth is the West has no ethics, just interests. Namely to cut Russia and China to pieces. It will look the other way, even if it means supporting actual Nazis or radical Islamists. The whole Western world has accepted that Ukraine is to Russia what Cuba is to the US. Otherwise their would be weapons and soldiers coming in. If you want to fight for THE Ukraine, go ahead and book a flight to Poland.


Non of what you said is reality
The fact that Ukraine elected a President that refused to bow to Putin is the problem

Eastern Ukraine has been under-control by Russian rebels. So any death are at the hands of the rebels not Ukraine
 This is because Putin ego of being the worst Russian president that has tanked Russian economy and think taking power by force is the only option

Youre a joke of a troll.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Nobody is so nice try
> calling  Joe an incompetent does not mean praising putting nice try


Lol for someone who cries when People make fun of the Formal Defeated guy. You sure want to blame the rightly elected President for Putins ego war


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Non of what you said is reality
> The fact that Ukraine elected a President that refused to bow to Putin is the problem
> 
> Eastern Ukraine has been under-control by Russian rebels. So any death are at the hands of the rebels not Ukraine
> ...



Not to mention that is Russia who has the history of either imprisoned or poison and murder political oponents, not to mention media being State controlled and election counts being suspectefly tampered. All of this through the same president.

Also regarding Chechnya self-determination, 'member the time Russia squashed a rightful independentista group and replaced it with a puppet government? I 'member.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 26, 2022)

at this point ignore the anti-conservative shills to blind to call out the BS 

In other news very brave of  Zelensky to stay really shows Ukraine is committed even after it was abandoned by the wester powers. also Poland has been helping them alot


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> at this point ignore the anti-conservative shills to blind to call out the BS
> 
> In other news very brave of  Zelensky to stay really shows Ukraine is committed even after it was abandoned by the wester powers. also Poland has been helping them alot



Guess you missed the other times it was posted 


The Hypocrisy of your "under the Bridge" life Is fascinating 
monday- AMERICAN NEEDS TO BUTT OUT


Valwinz said:


> If the people in those parts want to be Russian is not the USA business



Today -AMERICANS Fault for not butting in 


Valwinz said:


> Says the
> 
> Says the Shill defending stupidity that led to this. man, I guess Kamala's master moves did not help i guess tweeting Putin did not help. Putin is hours away from the capital as Ukrain say they were abandoned.


.Lol pathetic troll


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Guess you missed the other times it was posted
> 
> 
> The Hypocrisy of your "under the Bridge" life Is fascinating
> ...



It's called a case of Ballzheimer's.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia had no interest in escalating the Maidan situation.


Dude that's complete horse shit and you know it.  If they had no interest in escalating, they WOULDN'T HAVE ESCALATED.  Whatever "snipers" you're talking about are irrelevant, as Russia still moved in to annex Crimea.  They didn't even wait for a false flag during that event.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia waited 8 years to protect millions of Russians before launching a war.


Russia is is playing the role of imperialist conqueror here, they aren't in Ukraine to "protect" anything.  Hundreds, if not thousands of innocents will be killed by them during this invasion.  Fuck Russia, and while we're at it, fuck China too for supporting their bullshit.  They couldn't possibly make it any more obvious that they've got designs on invading Taiwan.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If they had no interest in escalating, they WOULDN'T HAVE ESCALATED.  Whatever "snipers" you're talking about are irrelevant, as Russia still moved in to annex Crimea.


When I spoke of escalation on the Maidan, I meant escalation on the Maidan. Crimea came after the deaths at the Maidan protests. According to RT and years later the BBC (better late then never) people from both sides (the government and protesters) were shot by the same type of bullets. From the injury one can tell where the bullets came from: buildings surrounding the protesters. There were snipers on the roof tops or some of the higher floors. THIS WAS BEFORE CRIMEA. Now who had an interest in escalating? The deaths caused an increase in the determination of the people (they wrongly blamed the government). Russia had no interest in doing that. The US and Ukrainian Nazis did.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Now who had an interest in escalating?


Obviously Russia.  Nobody's buying that Putin is a choirboy who is incapable of telling a lie.  And even if he was telling the truth in that instance (lol), the Russian military is far from perfectly trained.  They could've started shooting just because they were drunk.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ukrainian Nazis


So the dictator invading a peaceful country minding its own business isn't a Nazi, but the victims of the invasion are?  Get the fuck outta here with that garbage.


----------



## Flame (Feb 26, 2022)

Putin should feed it own people first. What does Russia have expect oil and gas? has it done any thing good technology wise or science wise in the last 30 years for the world?

Putin is a terrorist.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 26, 2022)

Flame said:


> Putin should feed it own people first. What does Russia have expect oil and gas? has it done any thing good technology wise or science wise in the last 30 years for the world?
> 
> Putin is a terrorist.


To be fair, Russia helps India a lot. In fact, any sanctions against Russia are far more likely to severely affect Indian farmers than Putin himself.


----------



## Flame (Feb 26, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> To be fair, Russia helps India a lot. In fact, any sanctions against Russia are far more likely to severely affect Indian farmers than Putin himself.


 
..but even Hitler cared about Germany or something.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Obviously Russia.  Nobody's buying that Putin is a choirboy who is incapable of telling a lie.  And even if he was telling the truth in that instance (lol), the Russian military is far from perfectly trained.  They could've started shooting just because they were drunk.


I was not claiming Putin did not lie. Nor have I claimed Russia denied having snipers in buildings on roof tops. You are unable to follow a simple line of reasoning. Instead you spout racist stereotypes about Russians.
I call Nazis people who celebrate a Nazi collaborateur in WW2 (Bandera) and make photos in front of the Nato, Ukrainian and Nazi flag. (see "nazi flag nato flag ukraine" in any search engine)


----------



## Flame (Feb 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I was not claiming Putin did not lie. Nor have I claimed Russia denied having snipers in buildings on roof tops. You are unable to follow a simple line of reasoning. Instead you spout racist stereotypes about Russians.
> I call Nazis people who celebrate a Nazi collaborateur in WW2 (Bandera) and make photos in front of the Nato, Ukrainian and Nazi flag. (see "nazi flag nato flag ukraine" in any search engine)



you don't understand how propaganda works it seems. Does your Chinese search engine show what happened in "Tienanmen square massacre" or is that banned in China?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 26, 2022)

Flame said:


> you don't understand how propaganda works it seems. Does your Chinese search engine show what happened in "Tienanmen square massacre" or is that banned in China?


So the BBC is propaganda then? Years (or one year) later the BBC admitted what RT had reported when it was actually relevant.


----------



## dude1 (Feb 26, 2022)

linuxares said:


> @dude1 so should Sweden get back Finland then?


its not about who SHOULD anything, but if Sweden wanted to reclaim its historical land and retake Finland thats a Swedish issue and yes, would be a regional conflict for those two states to sort out.



djpannda said:


> Wait does that mean Most of Southwest USA goes back to MEXico.. a Good chuck Texas was stated to get on my nerves


it means if Mexico wanted to reclaim what it saw as its historical territory and wanted to fight for it yes.

however I see that being a lost cause that would cost Mexico even more of its current territory when it inevitably lost because I don't see them winning a regional conflict with the U.S, but as I say if they felt they could and wanted to try thats been the way of the world for thousands of years even prior to written history.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 26, 2022)

I'll tell you what though, we all would be lucky to have a leader like Zelenskyy. That is a seriously inspirational dude.


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 26, 2022)

Not sure if we are under full-on propaganda from both sides but the way Ukrain paints it is like they are kicking so much ass they don't need help 

Not sure if that the message they want to send but ok


----------



## sley (Feb 26, 2022)

Yeah mad respect to the president, Ukraine is lucky to have him.


Valwinz said:


> Not sure if we are under full-on propaganda from both sides but the way Ukrain paints it is like they are kicking so much ass they don't need help
> 
> Not sure if that the message they want to send but ok


Its very important to keep the morale high inside the country, also this inspires more people to donate to their funds so they don't feel the money is going into an lost cause. They never stated that they didn't need help though, pretty much the contrary.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

Hey look more possible war crimes.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 26, 2022)

Flame said:


> you don't understand how propaganda works it seems. Does your Chinese search engine show what happened in "Tienanmen square massacre" or is that banned in China?


He seems to understand how it works a little too well.  Doing everything possible to dance around admitting that Russia is 100% in the wrong here, and nobody else is responsible for their actions.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 26, 2022)

Has Russia devastated and conquered Ukraine yet? I'm tired of all the "news" and "media" sites and people constantly talk about it at this point. This is yet another topic which has people at their throats. I mean, this is actually a more serious topic to argue than whether or not you wanna force people to take jabs or not.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 26, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Has Russia devastated and conquered Ukraine yet? I'm tired of all the "news" and "media" sites and people constantly talk about it at this point. This is yet another topic which has people at their throats. I mean, this is actually a more serious topic to argue than whether or not you wanna force people to take jabs or not.


Yup I’m sure you just waiting for the Next conservative talking point but the world is not moving from it. Putins war Crime will be televised.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 26, 2022)

Flame said:


> Putin should feed it own people first. What does Russia have expect oil and gas? has it done any thing good technology wise or science wise in the last 30 years for the world?
> 
> Putin is a terrorist.


That oil and gas isn't going to last long when we switch to electric cars.


----------



## AncientBoi (Feb 26, 2022)

Flame said:


> Putin should feed it own people first. What does Russia have expect oil and gas? has it done any thing good technology wise or science wise in the last 30 years for the world?
> 
> Putin is a terrorist.



Just have the russians eat pinto beans. then they will have all the GAS they want. Sheesh


----------



## the_randomizer (Feb 26, 2022)

Putin is a terrorist POS and as such, should burn in hell for treating people like garbage.


----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

SG854 said:


> That oil and gas isn't going to last long when we switch to electric cars.



You still have to feed the electrical grid. Russia convinced Germany to give up on nuclear to become dependent on fossil again. Renewals are the future, yes, but the present is still fossil, unfortunately.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-dependence-imported-fossil-fuels

That has been a powerful Putin card on his hand.


----------



## Hanafuda (Feb 26, 2022)




----------



## pustal (Feb 26, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> View attachment 299683


Well yeah, no American civilian needs an AR-15. They live still in a democratic country and the US has the greatest military power in the world. They are oppressed by the government in their own heads. Things might change in 3 years with an orange Putin fan that doesn't recognize a democratic system and may have in place his minions to overturn an election if needed. I doubt that the American citizen will ever have to worry about the American military but looney militias like the Proud Boys and friends with AR-15 or whatever military grade overblow equipment they crave. And that's what Putin wants, to start a civil war in the US.

As for Ukraine, they are, like they've been in 2014 fighting back one of the biggest military power in the world beyond their military forces, having the citizens to take matters in their own hands.

I think it's easy to see the difference, so I'm gonna assume this is wilful ignorance.


----------



## Hanafuda (Feb 26, 2022)

pustal said:


> Well yeah, no American civilian needs an AR-15. They live still in a democratic country and the US has the greatest military power in the world. They are oppressed by the government in their own heads. Things might change in 3 years with an orange Putin fan that doesn't recognize a democratic system and may have in place his minions to overturn an election if needed. I doubt that the American citizen will ever have to worry about the American military but looney militias like the Proud Boys and friends with AR-15 or whatever military grade overblow equipment they crave. And that's what Putin wants, to start a civil war in the US.
> 
> As for Ukraine, they are, like they've been in 2014 fighting back one of the biggest military power in the world beyond their military forces, having the citizens to take matters in their own hands.
> 
> I think it's easy to see the difference, so I'm gonna assume this is wilful ignorance.




Blah blah. That tweet didn't say anything about "American civilian" and considering the recent behavior of the Canadian government towards peaceful protesters (whose cause I do not support, but whose right to protest I do support), I'm not so sure the "we're safe here in democracy-land" is such a great argument anymore.

There is nowhere in the world where shit cant hit the fan someday, or government can't become unable to govern.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 26, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Blah blah. That tweet didn't say anything about "American civilian" and considering the recent behavior of the Canadian government towards peaceful protesters (whose cause I do not support, but whose right to protest I do support), I'm not so sure the "we're safe here in democracy-land" is such a great argument anymore.
> 
> There is nowhere in the world where shit cant hit the fan someday, or government can't become unable to govern.


It's a bit different....
No need for US gun propaganda in this thread.


----------



## Hanafuda (Feb 26, 2022)

linuxares said:


> It's a bit different....
> No need for US gun propaganda in this thread.



The only thing different is the current era. War happened in North America in the past, will happen again in the future.

Self-defense and civil defense of one's sovereign nation are human rights. And if you are out to disarm a civilian populace, it's because you want to deprive those rights, in perpetuity. That's all I have to say about it. All that needs to be said.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Blah blah. That tweet didn't say anything about "American civilian" and considering the recent behavior of the Canadian government towards peaceful protesters (whose cause I do not support, but whose right to protest I do support), I'm not so sure the "we're safe here in democracy-land" is such a great argument anymore.
> 
> There is nowhere in the world where shit cant hit the fan someday, or government can't become unable to govern.


Childishly saying "blah blah" from who is being a propaganda mouthpiece is rich.

That tweet is referencing the easy access of this weapon that has been popularly used in mass shootings in the US. The tweet and article dates to the rebuilding of the Newtown school to replace the one that 4 years earlier served as grounds for the Sandy Hook massacre, that was perpetrated with an AR-15 variant.

AR-15's fight foreign agressores in Ukraine and kill schoolchildren in the US. They are tools of survival in Ukraine at the moment, they are big and dangerous toys in the US.

Canadian blockaders are fine and healthy. The last thing Canada needs is to arm them with military grade weapons for a second north-american insurrection this decade, fueled by Putin's divisional narrative.

AR-15s or other military grade weapons in the hand of insurrectionists is the quickest way to stop a democratic government from governing, that's why the Ukrainian government stopped working in Donetsk.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> The only thing different is the current era. War happened in North America in the past, will happen again in the future.
> 
> Self-defense and civil defense of one's sovereign nation are human rights. And if you are out to disarm a civilian populace, it's because you want to deprive those rights, in perpetuity. That's all I have to say about it. All that needs to be said.


How you tell someone you never read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights without telling him you never read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

There is no human right declared for the right to bear arms, that's a US invention, much less the right for civil militarization nor formation of militias.

Democratic states bear the responsability of safety. Military weapons on civil hands only work to protect the state if you have something in the lines of Switzerland where everyone is highly trained and evaluated to bear arms. Countries like the US where the closest thing many have to gun education is YouTube videos and Facebook propaganda is a recipe for disaster that's been proved over and over again. How much more dead children do you need to justify having big toys?

The problem with Ukraine is that the state is overwhelmed to keep defense and security up alone. With the kind of military budget the US has, that won't happen. Arming US citizens with AR-15 is feeding anarchy, and asking for more January insurrections and massacres.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 27, 2022)

Trump realizing he can’t publicly admit to being Putin lapdog 



3.2.1.0 - waiting for Conservative shills to turn coat and praise Ukraine .. ok it’s already stated


----------



## SG854 (Feb 27, 2022)

They need to take out Putin. He's been nothing but trouble. From him meddling in U.S. elections, Russian bots, to Ukraine. Take him out and replace him.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Trump realizing he can’t publicly admit to being Putin lapdog
> 
> 
> 
> 3.2.1.0 - waiting for Conservative shills to turn coat and praise Ukraine .. ok it’s already stated




Well good. If shilling, at least don't shill supporting a war crime and a war criminal.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 27, 2022)

If you don't want an AR-15, fine, but you ain't taking mine away. We have the 2nd amendment for a reason, just in case our government gets too powerful and controlling, the citizens need to fight back, but I digress, this isn't the topic for that now.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 27, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> If you don't want an AR-15, fine, but you ain't taking mine away. We have the 2nd amendment for a reason, just in case our government gets too powerful and controlling, the citizens need to fight back, but I digress, this isn't the topic for that now.


Cool story…… but how does that  relate to Russian War Crime in Ukraine


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> If you don't want an AR-15, fine, but you ain't taking mine away. We have the 2nd amendment for a reason, just in case our government gets too powerful and controlling, the citizens need to fight back, but I digress, this isn't the topic for that now.


You're founding fathers didn't thought of the possibility of the government and the majority having to take up with the wackos with the super guns. Nor that military grade weapons would be advanced to the point they are now and kill so many people in the wrong hands. I'm sure they'd put a provision for it if they did. Same for nuclear weapons. Your government has the power to nuke its own people if it goes insane, should the average Joe be able to have a nuke in its backyard?

It baffles me how the US right appeals for patriotism while appealing for their own government fear (not to mention the 'alt' version of it that appeals to undermine it entirely).


djpannda said:


> Cool story…… but how does that  relate to Russian War Crime in Ukraine


He is answering to me, answering to Hanafunda that compared the need of Ukranian volunteer civilians needs for military grade weapons with the potential need for the average US citizen to have military grade weapons at home. It derailed from there, he just didn't tagged me, maybe wishing I wouldn't see, dunno. You have to expect any conversation regarding politics to derail into the American black and white views at some point. No offense to the conscious US readers of this post.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> You're founding fathers didn't thought of the possibility of the government and the majority having to take up with the wackos with the super guns. Nor that military grade weapons would be advanced to the point they are now and kill so many people in the wrong hands. I'm sure they'd put a provision for it if they did. Same for nuclear weapons. Your government has the power to nuke its own people if it goes insane, should the average Joe be able to have a nuke in its backyard?
> 
> It baffles me how the US right appeals for patriotism while appealing for their own government fear (not to mention the 'alt' version of it that appeals to undermine it entirely).


Well my good sir, as they say, I may not agree with your opinion but I will risk my life to defend it.


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## djpannda (Feb 27, 2022)

Even if partially true, Russian poeple are really not liking the War.


Oh and several hundred more arrested for protesting (100%true )


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 27, 2022)

This is the greatest shit show since....well, the past year has been a flurry of shit shows. It's gonna be interesting to see how Putin is gonna handle all of this. He is a smart, but vicious man. And just because I say he's smart doesn't mean I like or stick up for them. You can call your enemy smart and still hate them with your guts, you're just acknowledging how dangerous they are and won't take them lightly. I'm actually shocked how many people in his own country, and even military, are against his invasion of Ukraine. I can see why he did it, in defiance of NATO and the bases we were building in Ukraine. Does it make what he's doing right? No. This invasion shouldn't have happened, and despite him being an effective leader for the most part, I hope Putin gets his ass blasted away. Putin is many things. but stupid is not, but I also don't think even he expected the push back from his own people on the invasion.

It's gonna be and even more interesting next few days and weeks. I'm not gonna guess what's gonna happen next since I actually didn't think he was going to invade Ukraine, so I'll just sit back and wait and see like others are doing.

And I'm sure Biden has the plan and 4th dimensional chess moves to outsmart this insane tyrant! Let's go Brandon, get that dictator and put him in his place!


----------



## Cylent1 (Feb 27, 2022)

WORLD WAR III


----------



## Cylent1 (Feb 27, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> View attachment 299683


Just goes to show how hypocritical the left really is


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Even if partially true, Russian poeple are really not liking the War.
> 
> 
> Oh and several hundred more arrested for protesting (100%true )



If not true, you had a platoon early yesterday surrendering because they had no intention to kill Ukranians.

Regardless, Chechns are coming, and not the ones Putin silenced, the crazy ones he put in power. It'll make up for any low morale the current Russian troops may have or not.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Cylent1 said:


> Just goes to show how hypocritical the left really is


Yeah, 'cause killing school children and foreign invaders is the same thing, right? /s


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> If not true, you had a platoon early yesterday surrendering because they had no intention to kill Ukranians.
> 
> Regardless, Chechns are coming, and not the ones Putin silenced, the crazy ones he put in power. It'll make up for any low morale the current Russian troops may have or not.


Well they were already there it seems.

And at least they started the best way:



> Column of Russian special forces defeated near Hostomel "Kadyrovites," named so for the Head of the Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov.
> 
> According to Channel 24 sources, the Ukrainian military blew up an echelon of 56 tanks that included General Magomed Tushayev, who was killed.


Did he ever find his cat?


----------



## djpannda (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> Well they were already there it seems.
> 
> And at least they started the best way:
> 
> ...


Lol I was reading that Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov (reported BadAss, who threaten to kill children and women) has been reported (by several agencies) to be killed without setting an actually foot on Ukraine.
I would like to thank All countries that provide intel and logistics on all Russian troops and forwarding them to Ukrainian military.


----------



## Joe88 (Feb 27, 2022)

No major news outlet is confirming his death or even mentioning he is unconfirmed to have been killed, and im not going to trust govt statements during a war (its all just propaganda, no matter which side you agree with or like what the statement says).

I've never seen so much disinformation flooding social media, and its going unchecked. From twitter, fb, reddit, and tiktok, fake videos, years old photos being pegged as taken today, outrageous statements with no evidence or source to back them up, get watched and shared hundreds of thousands of times, and unknown news websites writing articles about it treating it as fact, which then get shared back onto social media to somehow verify the claims.
Be aware of what your are reading about the war and think about if its misinformation or not. Avoid social media unless they use a valid source.


----------



## Cylent1 (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> Yeah, 'cause killing school children and foreign invaders is the same thing, right? /s


Are you implying that the Right kills school children and foreign invaders?
What kinda crack you smoking out the Binen pipe?


----------



## MurraySkull (Feb 27, 2022)

Cylent1 said:


> WORLD WAR III


Sure seems like it will happen. I would hope not, but sanctions clearly aren't working, and seem to just be wasting valuable time.

I don't know what is going to happen, but I can't help but feel that


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Cylent1 said:


> Are you implying that the Right kills school children and foreign invaders?
> What kinda crack you smoking out the Binen pipe?



No, I'm affirmating AR-15s kill schoolchildren in the US while they have a legit civil use (defend against foreign invaders) on Ukraine. Read my earlier posts. If you have difficulty getting what I wrote I say you are the one smoking something.

And unlike shillers here, I have no horse in the game, it's not my country that has a number of school shootings at memable levels, just like to call bullshit when I hear it. A benefit of living in a gun-regulated society: zero school shootings, negligible gun related deaths. And we also don't have crack here, a benefit of living in a country where drug usage is taken as a health issue and not criminal issue and having a universal healthcare system


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Joe88 said:


> No major news outlet is confirming his death or even mentioning he is unconfirmed to have been killed, and im not going to trust govt statements during a war (its all just propaganda, no matter which side you agree with or like what the statement says).
> 
> I've never seen so much disinformation flooding social media, and its going unchecked. From twitter, fb, reddit, and tiktok, fake videos, years old photos being pegged as taken today, outrageous statements with no evidence or source to back them up, get watched and shared hundreds of thousands of times, and unknown news websites writing articles about it treating it as fact, which then get shared back onto social media to somehow verify the claims.
> Be aware of what your are reading about the war and think about if its misinformation or not. Avoid social media unless they use a valid source.


Kyiv Independent, as the name implies is an independent news outlet. And it was cited in this matter by Foreign Press. They could have been pressured, but what would have Ukraine have to gain with it in modern times, where he could simply make a video right after commenting the news and disprove them?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> You still have to feed the electrical grid. Russia convinced Germany to give up on nuclear to become dependent on fossil again. Renewals are the future, yes, but the present is still fossil, unfortunately.


Yes, Russia is to blame for your tooth ache as well. The nuclear accident in Japan caused Germans to panic. Had nothing to do with Russia.


----------



## Joe88 (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> Kyiv Independent, as the name implies is an independent news outlet. And it was cited in this matter by Foreign Press. They could have been pressured, but what would have Ukraine have to gain with it in modern times, where he could simply make a video right after commenting the news and disprove them?


It's 3 month old twitter account, their website is a word press blog. It doesnt matter what they call themselves, its a completly unknown and untrustworthy news outlet.

Propaganda is there to boost morale, prevent soliders from abandoning their fight, especially their civillian fighters. Winning an impossible battle. Maybe even get more people to fight for them. Thats its purpose and also to mislead people from outside the country that they are winning, where as they get more donations and supplies. They have everything to gain from pushing out propaganda just like any country throughout history involved in conflicts.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 27, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> View attachment 299683


Liberals gonna liberal.  Leftists know we need guns because fascists have them too, and Putin is being maximum fascist right now.



Joe88 said:


> I've never seen so much disinformation flooding social media, and its going unchecked.


Well yeah, most of that is coming from Russian troll farms (hired by the Kremlin).  Short of generating actual support for a baseless invasion, they'll turn to sowing chaos and discord on the internet instead.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Yes, Russia is to blame for your tooth ache as well. The nuclear accident in Japan caused Germans to panic. Had nothing to do with Russia.


Yes, yes. And Schröder being given a chairman role of Rosneft and now Gazprom is a perfectly innocent coincidence.


----------



## Cylent1 (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> No, I'm affirmating AR-15s kill schoolchildren in the US while they have a legit civil use (defend against foreign invaders) on Ukraine. Read my earlier posts. If you have difficulty getting what I wrote I say you are the one smoking something.
> 
> And unlike shillers here, I have no race in the game, it's not my country that has a number of school shootings at memable levels, just like to call bullshit when I hear it. A benefit of living in a gun-regulated society: zero school shootings, negligible gun related deaths. And we also don't have crack here, a benefit of living in a country where drug usage is taken as a health issue and not criminal issue and having a universal healthcare system


The guns don't load and pull the trigger by themselves!
It takes a special kinda special person to think otherwise.
Also I am glad you don't have a Communist government that would throw you in prison for years and ruin your life for a victimless crime, like we do.
You have been mislead on the freedoms of the USA and the reason we need guns. 
We are a Communist country as of late, and the only thing stopping the USA from going complete communist, is our GUNS AND BRAVERY OF THE AMERICAN PATRIOTS!!!
Anything less would be uncivilized.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Joe88 said:


> It's 3 month old twitter account, their website is a word press blog. It doesnt matter what they call themselves, its a completly unknown and untrustworthy news outlet.
> 
> Propaganda is there to boost morale, prevent soliders from abandoning their fight, especially their civillian fighters. Winning an impossible battle. Maybe even get more people to fight for them. Thats its purpose and also to mislead people from outside the country that they are winning, where as they get more donations and supplies. They have everything to gain from pushing out propaganda just like any country throughout history involved in conflicts.


I am not vouching for them but the newspaper is recent yes. It was created by journalists from the Kyiv Post. Last year the Post was bought and last November the new owner fired all the journalists for disagreeing with him. The Kyiv Independent is formed by fired journalists from the Post. The made with the resources they had but they have their reputation on the line.

And yeah, but even if it was propaganda, with would be counterproductive and really dumb if they could be disproven right the next moment.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> Yes, yes. And Schröder being given a chairman role of Rosneft and now Gazprom is a perfectly innocent coincidence.


Corruption in politics is not an Eastern phenomenon. Happens everywhere (in the West it tends to be more privatized). Putin mocked Germans for rejecting nuclear power (more or less a quote: "they don´t want coal, they don´t want nuclear power. do they want to use wood? then they need to come to Siberia"). The idea that Russia is behind the German fear of nuclear power is idiotic. It has been part of German discourse since the cold war. They are not afraid of being nuked though as they allow the US full access to their country. I was in Germany during the Japanese accident and you could feel the wind changing. Even Merkel changed her view.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Cylent1 said:


> The guns don't load and pull the trigger by themselves!
> It takes a special kinda special person to think otherwise.
> Also I am glad you don't have a Communist government that would throw you in prison for years and ruin your life for a victimless crime, like we do.
> You have been mislead on the freedoms of the USA and the reason we need guns.
> ...


"The guns don't load and pull the trigger by themselves!", yes, that's exactly why you don't put them in the hands of the common Joe and hope for the best unless absolutely necessary, like in Ukraine.

And calling US communist just shows how deeply down the rabbit hole and far out of reality you are. You have absolutely no notion of what Communism is. You don't even have a social democracy and you have a two party system comprised of a right party, liberal or neo-liberal party and a more-to-the-right than right party, conservative, now alt-right or far right.

And like I said before



pustal said:


> It baffles me how the US right appeals for patriotism while appealing for their own government fear (not to mention the 'alt' version of it that appeals to undermine it entirely).



The right and you show more love for your guns than you have for your people. Patriotism is not about the love of your guns, it's about the love of your people.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Corruption in politics is not an Eastern phenomenon. Happens everywhere (in the West it tends to be more privatized). Putin mocked Germans for rejecting nuclear power (more or less a quote: "they don´t want coal, they don´t want nuclear power. do they want to use wood? then they need to come to Siberia"). The idea that Russia is behind the German fear of nuclear power is idiotic. It has been part of German discourse since the cold war. They are not afraid of being nuked though as they allow the US full access to their country. I was in Germany during the Japanese accident and you could feel the wind changing. Even Merkel changed her view.



Nord Stream negotiations where in 2005. Fukushima was in 2011. Fukushima was an excuse to go through with the project, I'm sure it helped with Merkel, but it's naive to think she didn't have other pressures, political or otherwise. More than Merkel, Fukushima swaded the German public perception more than any political intentions.

Also, directly from Wikipedia:


> Ethical issues​The former Chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schröder, and the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, were strong advocates of the pipeline project during the negotiation phase. International media alluded to a past relationship between the managing director of Nord Stream AG, Matthias Warnig, himself a former East German secret police officer, and Vladimir Putin when he was a KGB agent in East Germany.[161][162][163][164] These allegations were denied by Matthias Warnig, who said that he had met Vladimir Putin for the first time in his life in 1991, when Putin was the head of the Committee for External Relations of the Saint Petersburg Mayor's Office.[164][165]
> 
> The agreement to build the pipeline was signed ten days before the German parliamentary election. On 24 October 2005, a few weeks before Schröder had stepped down as Chancellor, the German government guaranteed to cover €1 billion of the Nord Stream project cost, should Gazprom default on a loan. However, this guarantee expired at the end of 2006 without ever having been needed.[166] Soon after leaving the post of Chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schröder agreed to head the shareholders' committee of Nord Stream AG. This has been widely described by German and international media as a conflict of interest,[167][168][169] the implication being that the pipeline project may have been pushed through for personal gain rather than for improving gas supplies to Germany. Information about the German government's guarantee was requested by the European Commission. No formal charges have been filed against any party despite years of exhaustive investigations.[166]
> 
> In February 2009, the Swedish prosecutor's office started an investigation based on suspicions of bribery and corruption after a college on the island of Gotland received a donation from Nord Stream. The 5 million Swedish kronor (US$574,000) donation was directed to a professor at Gotland University College who had previously warned that the Nord Stream pipeline would come too close to a sensitive bird zone.[170] The consortium has hired several former high-ranking officials, such as Ulrica Schenström, former undersecretary at the Swedish Prime Minister's office, and Dan Svanell, former press secretary for several politicians in the Swedish Social Democratic Party.[171] In addition, the former Prime Minister of Finland, Paavo Lipponen, had worked for Nord Stream as an adviser since 2008.[172]


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> Nord Stream negotiations where in 2005. Fukushima was in 2011.


So what? Nord Stream 1 and 2 are ways to diversify pipeline options for Russia. How is that an attempt at attacking German nuclear power?


----------



## Valwinz (Feb 27, 2022)

il ask this here and I hope i get serious responses dude to what Russia just say.

Is a ThermoNuclear war worth it over Ukraine?


----------



## Hanafuda (Feb 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Liberals gonna liberal.  Leftists know we need guns because fascists have them too, and Putin is being maximum fascist right now.



We don't often agree but in this case I appreciate at least that you see the irony in those tweets.


----------



## Joe88 (Feb 27, 2022)




----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So what? Nord Stream 1 and 2 are ways to diversify pipeline options for Russia. How is that an attempt at attacking German nuclear power?



You don't bet enough on nuclear to accommodate for energetic needs growth since you have another thing to relly on.

The political objective is simply to make German fuel dependent. The level of it was a matter of opportunity.


----------



## smf (Feb 27, 2022)

Nuclear weapons are just a waste of money unless you're a deranged psychopath like Putin, who might just use them.

I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.

Series enough?



Valwinz said:


> il ask this here and I hope i get serious responses dude to what Russia just say.
> 
> Is a ThermoNuclear war worth it over Ukraine?


----------



## smf (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> If not true, you had a platoon early yesterday surrendering because they had no intention to kill Ukranians.


"didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."

How did they not know, how did they find out?


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

smf said:


> Nuclear weapons are just a waste of money unless you're a deranged psychopath like Putin, who might just use them.
> 
> I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.
> 
> Series enough?


Nuclear weapons are a deterrent. If Ukraine still had nuclear weapons, Russian wouldn't have invaded. North Korea only exists because it has nuclear power (and is/was backed by a nuclear power).


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

smf said:


> "didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."
> 
> How did they not know, how did they find out?


They were bought to the border with the excuse of preventing an attack, probably thought they were only a deterrent. They found out when they were told to invade.

Also, as it seems, a relevant number of Russian soldiers are draftees, which are illegal in Russia to be dragged into active conflict. It would be reasonable for them to think that was not the plan.


----------



## smf (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> Nuclear weapons are a deterrent. Had the Ukraine had nuclear weapons still, Russian wouldn't have invaded. North Korea only exists because it has nuclear power (and is/was backed by a nuclear power).


I'm not convinced an actor would push the button.


----------



## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

smf said:


> I'm not convinced an actor would push the button.


They wouldn't unless attacked first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction


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## smf (Feb 27, 2022)

pustal said:


> They wouldn't unless attacked first.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction


I'm pretty sure that by the time nukes land in Ukraine then we're basically all in for WW3. They would practically be shooting themselves.

There is no way Ukraine would launch nukes over this invasion and it wouldn't deter Russia either.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 27, 2022)

So Putin wants Ukrain because geographic location of where Ukrain is placed will give them protection against Nato and the West if they ever turned against Russia in the Future. Putin sees Nato as a future threat.

If Ukrain were to join Nato then that'll put a huge whole against Russia's defense against the west meaning there is more open terrain to enter Russia through Ukrain. Russia wants to close this big opening by taking over Ukrain.

Ukraine has found a large gas and oil deposites. Russian economy is hugely reliant on gas and oil as they import to other countries. If Ukrain tapped into those oil reserves then the west can cut Russia off and instead get most of their oil and gas from Ukraine instead. This will put a huge dent in Russia's economy 


So this war is like how all wars start. Money, resources, and gain territory for defense against future invasions.

Russia is rich in natural resources but Putin failed to tap into those resources and became heavily dependent on oil. Putin failed to diversify their economy.


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## Tomato123 (Feb 27, 2022)

smf said:


> There is no way Ukraine would launch nukes over this invasion and it wouldn't deter Russia either.


Ukraine doesn't have nukes as far as I know.


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## Taleweaver (Feb 27, 2022)

Some situation...

As with (by now) everyone, I've been watching the invasion unfold. The position of Russia quickly changed from "we need to protect Russian minded groups in Donetsk and Luhansk" to "these groupings should have sovereignty" to "we're going to stop Ukraine for resisting us".

It baffles me in so many ways. I never held Putin in any sort of high regard, but I really thought he was smarter than to downright invade a neighboring country without being provoked in any way. Of course nobody's going to stand for it. It was pretty much a given that no country would side with Russia (aside Belarus, but they're hardly more than a Russian province so they're pretty much insignificant), and that the Oriental side would remain neutral wasn't rocket science either.

So why do it? The situation in the Crimea was only different because it had a lot of Russian supporters on the peninsula (hard to portray yourself as the liberators when the majority doesn't want you in the first place). Donetsk and Luhansk had at best fringe groups allying themselves with Russia. In no way anything resembling a majority, and it was never an annexation either.

So...why? Putin's in power of Russia for years if not decades. NATO and the US never liked the autocracy it turned into after the USSR fell, but it's not their job to run the country (sovereignty, y'know?).
Sure, Ukraine wanted to become a member of NATO which brought the faultline (the proverbial iron curtain) closer to Russia...but NATO wasn't created to be anti-Russia. It's just that Russia's governing style is only not a dictatorship in name only ("you can vote for anyone you choose! No...Not that guy! We imprison him and don't even try to find a non-absurd excuse").

So in that way, Putin's hand might be triggered...but this doesn't strike me as an impulse move at all. Putin might be surrounded by yes-men (unlike Trump, who was surrounded by people who didn't want useless conflicts), but there had to be a plan for this. I don't see Putin gambling that NATO was just going to shrug and let those cities and then Kiev taken because of some propaganda ("oh, so Ukraine is just going to pester some fringe groups in their Eastern region at the exact same time 100'000 alligning Russian soldiers are innocently doing military excercises accidentally directly next to the Ukraine border? Thanks for informing us, Russian-controlled state media  ").

He must've known. Perhaps underestimated the severity, but...*ugh*...I don't like to say it, but the rightwing nutjobs in this thread are right that our governments don't do enough. I disagree with some on whether or not that's a good thing, but our response was too slow, not enough and...certainly initially: kind of lame, really.

Belgium's now sending weapons and "is about to" send some troops.

Some troops.

It's better than nothing, I guess, but meanwhile they can get in line behind the many volunteers who went there sending food, clothing or simply transport for the many refugees fleeing Ukraine. I'm in favor of hitting the financial system and oligarchs close to Putin...but that's the sort of news I kind of expect as a backup from the clear and unwavering support we should be given Ukraine the moment the actual invasion began. Not multiple days later.

And with an actual war on our hands, the battle for truth becomes actually important. Remember that "Russia interfered in the 2016 US election" thingy? That's probably regarded as a main rehersal or something in Russian intelligence agencies, whereas the main attraction is trying to sway public opinion away from, or somehow legitimize, their attack.


I don't think they can. From my understanding, the average Russian is very much opposed to this move as well, which means that this isn't so much an attack by Russia as it is by Putin.

I'm not viewing the world through action-movie glasses, but perhaps things really shouldn't be more complicated than it should be. Hurt Russia financially by cutting off any sort of supplies (no, not just for some 1% oligarchs: shut down swift for all the banks operating in the territory). Cut off all transport of goods from and to the place.
Yes, it'll hurt us (I'm not as convinced that my heating isn't at least partially Russian, so it might get cold here). But we've got more allies. we'll win.
No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do.

Last I've read there's some implications of invoking the nuclear arsenal if the West keeps supporting Ukraine. For that, I just repeat myself:

No single dictator can just tell the rest of the world what to do...


Fuckwad.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Feb 27, 2022)

Why is there no footage of any actual fighting?


----------



## tpax (Feb 27, 2022)

smf said:


> I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.


No, fuck this shit. Russia and Ukraine are both fucking corrupt shitholes full of retarded idiots (I know that, I've been to both). Don't fucking drag my NATO country into this shit. A nuclear missile silo is less than 100 km away from my city, and we're the first that'll get hit. I don't care enough about some eastern European shithole to risk a war coming to my front-door.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 27, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Some situation...
> 
> As with (by now) everyone, I've been watching the invasion unfold. The position of Russia quickly changed from "we need to protect Russian minded groups in Donetsk and Luhansk" to "these groupings should have sovereignty" to "we're going to stop Ukraine for resisting us".
> 
> ...


Unprovoked but Putin wants land, resources and security. That's pretty much how all wars start.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 27, 2022)

Let's hope Putin doesn't get terminal cancer as I'm pretty sure he won't hesitate to launch all the nukes.


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## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Why is there no footage of any actual fighting?


There usually isn't. People are usually either fighting or hiding when guns are fired.


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## pustal (Feb 27, 2022)

tpax said:


> No, fuck this shit. Russia and Ukraine are both fucking corrupt shitholes full of retarded idiots (I know that, I've been to both). Don't fucking drag my NATO country into this shit. A nuclear missile silo is less than 100 km away from my city, and we're the firts that'll get hit. I don't care enough about some eastern European shithole to risk a war coming to my front-door.


I thought that Gambia


> does not own, possess, or control nuclear weapons


Are you telling me otherwise?

Even if so, why the hell would it be the first to get hit?

Also Gambia isn't in NATO.


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## AstralVoodoo (Feb 27, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Why is there no footage of any actual fighting?


Just see on you tube on Ukrainian news channels


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## Flame (Feb 27, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Why is there no footage of any actual fighting?



idk maybe people too busy fighting a war to take a selfie during all the bullets flying around.



tpax said:


> No, fuck this shit. Russia and Ukraine are both fucking corrupt shitholes full of retarded idiots (I know that, I've been to both). Don't fucking drag my NATO country into this shit. A nuclear missile silo is less than 100 km away from my city, and we're the first that'll get hit. I don't care enough about some eastern European shithole to risk a war coming to my front-door.



do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine?







welcome to the real world @tpax


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## Xzi (Feb 27, 2022)

Flame said:


> do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine?


He's already threatened Sweden and Finland too lol.  Good thing all this aggression seems to be having the opposite of the intended effect on other nearby countries:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ary-base-speedier-nato-membership-2022-02-27/


----------



## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

This, this is a good idea:


----------



## Plazorn (Feb 28, 2022)

Why is everyone freaking out about the loss of some social media platforms there? Couldn't they access them from TOR?


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 28, 2022)

Uh oh bois, it seems like the conspiracy nutjobs out are in full now!


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## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Uh oh bois, it seems like the conspiracy nutjobs out are in full now!



That video was perfect with just the reaction face, the title and the clapping at the end make it dumb af.


----------



## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This, this is a good idea:


Asylum for sure, citizenship, ehh... In time, after the war maybe. I can see Putin using this to his advantage. It wouldn't be the first time he'd use the goodwill of European hospitality to try to undermine the EU.


Plazorn said:


> Why is everyone freaking out about the loss of some social media platforms there? Couldn't they access them from TOR?


Not everyone is tech savvy, some social media platforms actively block Tor endpoints and social media is the means of personal communication for many and is a way for collective organizing.

Genuinely don't know if this was Putler intention (might want to scare his own people to rally behind him, God knows what is going on in this Wacko's mind), but I'm glad Germany his finally putting on a tough stance with great emphasis on European unity:



I love how the democratic leader is the one showing strength and character while the far right sits there, pussy-whipped by their Russian overlord.


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## djpannda (Feb 28, 2022)

pustal said:


> Asylum for sure, citizenship, ehh... In time, after the war maybe. I can see Putin using this to his advantage. It wouldn't be the first time he'd use the goodwill of European hospitality to try to undermine the EU.


They need to treat them like North Korean defectors. They are held in special housing (hotel quality) until they are completely vetted. 

But yea that is amazing idea.. they have been plenty of Russian just giving up knowing they will be ruffed up… offer them a better life and they’ll hand over their rifles in droves


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## djpannda (Feb 28, 2022)

Looks like China is looking at Russian and went Nope too much trouble​‘They were fooled by Putin’: Chinese historians speak out against Russian invasion​ A state sponsored historian tend not to state anything without “consulting” their goverment handlers


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## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Looks like China is looking at Russian and went Nope too much trouble​‘They were fooled by Putin’: Chinese historians speak out against Russian invasion​ A state sponsored historian tend not to state anything without “consulting” their goverment handlers



Would a historian consult their government to speak up to pressure their government?

I think Chinese government stance will be to remain neutral as much as possible. They want Russian support for when they enact on their plans to do the same with Taiwan and they want to take the opportunity to offer Russia to take CIPS to replace SWIFT and also establish themselves as the dominant economical partner of Russia, but they want to keep their position in global trade, their plans like the Belt and Road initiative, etc. If they speak or act either way they'll lose something.


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## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

Belarus reviewed constitution to renounce non nuclear status. Lucy is giving away his country to be Putler's launch pad. We're closer to a Fallout LARP.


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## Viri (Feb 28, 2022)

pustal said:


> North Korea only exists because it has nuclear power (and is/was backed by a nuclear power).


Well, that and North Korea can level South Korea's capital city to pieces, even without nukes. Also, I don't think South Korea even wants to unify with North Korea at this point, as the burden would be way too much.


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## tpax (Feb 28, 2022)

pustal said:


> I thought that Gambia
> 
> Are you telling me otherwise?
> 
> ...


Africa and Germany are almost the same thing by now (lol jk).

Because it would be strategically logical to bomb the nuclear missile silos in Germany first. Our "western partners" by the other side of the transatlantic bridge wouldn't probably even get a scratch.



Flame said:


> do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine?


It's quite obvious that he would stop. The whole thing running now is about the Ukraine not joining NATO, primarily to avoid the war between Russia and NATO. Why? Because as soon as Ukraine joins the NATO, it will try to regain the Crimea through military intervention. And that would mean a full fledged war between Russia and NATO, because then the NATO would be bound by the contract to take part in this conflict. That would be the worst possible scenario for everyone on this planet. People seem not to understand this.
Everyone who care about Ukraine that much, go buy a ticket and help them fight the russian mob. And leave everyone else out of this.


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## Flame (Feb 28, 2022)

tpax said:


> It's quite obvious that he would stop. The whole thing running now is about the Ukraine not joining NATO, primarily to avoid the war between Russia and NATO. Why? Because as soon as Ukraine joins the NATO, it will try to regain the Crimea through military intervention. And that would mean a full fledged war between Russia and NATO, because then the NATO would be bound by the contract to take part in this conflict. That would be the worst possible scenario for everyone on this planet. People seem not to understand this.
> Everyone who care about Ukraine that much, go buy a ticket and help them fight the russian mob. And leave everyone else out of this.



so madman will stop. what ever you say tampax


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## tpax (Feb 28, 2022)

Flame said:


> so madman will stop. what ever you say tampax


----------



## Flame (Feb 28, 2022)

tpax said:


>



What do you what me to say? Putin (madman) threaten to nuke everyone because people would not look the other way because he wants to destroy a sovereign nation. what grantees do you have he will stop at Ukraine?

he wants the Soviet Union back. FACT. would you give back east Germany to the Russians?



> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
> Because I was not a socialist.
> 
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
> ...


----------



## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

Flame said:


> What do you what me to say? Putin (madman) threaten to nuke everyone because people would not look the other way because he wants to destroy a sovereign nation. what grantees do you have he will stop at Ukraine?
> 
> he wants the Soviet Union back. FACT. would you give back east Germany to the Russians?



Soviet Union back? No, no, no... He wants the Russian Empire back. He uses National Bolshevism foreign policy, but the internal policies have nothing to do with Bolshevism and he wants to be remember as a new tzar, a conqueror.


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## tpax (Feb 28, 2022)

Flame said:


> What do you what me to say? Putin (madman) threaten to nuke everyone because people would not look the other way because he wants to destroy a sovereign nation. what grantees do you have he will stop at Ukraine?
> 
> he wants the Soviet Union back. FACT. would you give back east Germany to the Russians?


Putin doesn't want an additional NATO country at his border, that's a FACT. 
What guarantees that he will stop at Ukraine? The NATO. Really, it's that simple. Sign the agreement that Ukraine will not join NATO, and the war is over. It's that simple. No more bloodshed. That's a reasonable price for saving thousands of lives and saving this planet from a possible nuclear war.

Remember when, during the cold war, a russian warship with nuclear warheads was on it's way to Cuba to build up the silos there? Remember how USA threatened the soviets with a nuclear war when they won't turn around? We're in the same situation right now, only with role reversal. 

Guaranteeing that Ukraine won't join the NATO, is such a minor sacrifice, considering how many human lives can be saved by that act. Everyone can keep what they already have, Ukraine will stay a sovereign country, the west can still earn a lot of money by providing Ukraine with a lot of military equipment, and Russia shuts the fuck up. That would be the best possible outcome considering how the situation heats up right now.


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## AstralVoodoo (Feb 28, 2022)

tpax said:


> Putin doesn't want an additional NATO country at his border, that's a FACT.
> What guarantees that he will stop at Ukraine? The NATO. Really, it's that simple. Sign the agreement that Ukraine will not join NATO, and the war is over. It's that simple. No more bloodshed. That's a reasonable price for saving thousands of lives and saving this planet from a possible nuclear war.
> 
> Remember when, during the cold war, a russian warship with nuclear warheads was on it's way to Cuba to build up the silos there? Remember how USA threatened the soviets with a nuclear war when they won't turn around? We're in the same situation right now, only with role reversal.
> ...


This bullshit. Ukraine was not in NATO and adhered to a neutral status and Russia invaded the territory of Ukraine and annexed Crimea and part of the Donbas


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## Viri (Feb 28, 2022)

Moldova is nervously sweating!


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## KuntilanakMerah (Feb 28, 2022)

Long Life Putin
Bravo Russia

Союз нерушимый республик свободных 
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.


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## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

tpax said:


> Putin doesn't want an additional NATO country at his border, that's a FACT.
> What guarantees that he will stop at Ukraine? The NATO. Really, it's that simple. Sign the agreement that Ukraine will not join NATO, and the war is over. It's that simple. No more bloodshed. That's a reasonable price for saving thousands of lives and saving this planet from a possible nuclear war.
> 
> Remember when, during the cold war, a russian warship with nuclear warheads was on it's way to Cuba to build up the silos there? Remember how USA threatened the soviets with a nuclear war when they won't turn around? We're in the same situation right now, only with role reversal.
> ...



Moldova, Finland and Sweden do not belong to NATO, and Putin already threatened the later two this week.

Putin will want more than that, he'll want and independent territory and limitations to the army and he'll continue to feed insurrectionists.

Ukraine will probably sign that deal if it's not given assurances it'll be accepted in NATO, but that will mean that Ukraine will be forever a puppet state of Russia and the same will happen if any of the other 3 countries decide to join NATO. Also, until when Russia decide to take another Crimea out of the Ukraine?

This is what Putin wants, to show weakness in NATO and the West and that he is the de facto power in the region.


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## djpannda (Feb 28, 2022)

djpannda said:


> They need to treat them like North Korean defectors. They are held in special housing (hotel quality) until they are completely vetted.
> 
> But yea that is amazing idea.. they have been plenty of Russian just giving up knowing they will be ruffed up… offer them a better life and they’ll hand over their rifles in droves


Oh look it’s starting 
Russian soldiers offered 5 million rubles in cryptocurrency for surrendering to Ukrainian army.​


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## djpannda (Feb 28, 2022)

You know you done and FU$K up when Switzerland says you are the bad Guy..

 Swiss adopt EU sanctions against Russia in break with pastNeutral Switzerland will adopt European Union sanctions against Russians involved in Moscow's invasion of Ukraine and freeze their assets, the government said on Monday in a sharp deviation from the...


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## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Oh look it’s starting
> Russian soldiers offered 5 million rubles in cryptocurrency for surrendering to Ukrainian army.​



Well the "in criptocurrency" may mean they are offering 50 million rubles worth, or 75, or 30. Bitcoin has been as stable as Russian satellite states.


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## Dr_Faustus (Feb 28, 2022)

pustal said:


> Well the "in criptocurrency" may mean they are offering 50 million rubles worth, or 75, or 30. Bitcoin has been as stable as Russian satellite states.


Its currently more stable than the Russian Ruble right now, and that alone is saying something.


----------



## almmiron (Feb 28, 2022)

Just to express my feelings: I'm brazilian, graduated in History. 99% of the academics here hate Bolsonaro, so no, we (common people) are not neutral Like he Says.

We hate war and violence, and Russia is terribly wrong to engage, aside legitimate concerns about the frontiers and NATO. About the Siege Russia did to Ukraine, before the invasion, when the all media of the world became nuts: This is Like Russia feels all these decades after  NATO 1949. Surrounded. But no one cares, but Russia itself, you see?

I think diplomacy could resolve this, it's hard, but it could. Putin is far from being a good diplomat, though.


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## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Its currently more stable than the Russian Ruble right now, and that alone is saying something.


Nonesense, the ruble is very stabl...y falling xD



almmiron said:


> Just to express my feelings: I'm brazilian, graduated in History. 99% of the academics here hate Bolsonaro, so no, we (common people) are not neutral Like he Says.
> 
> We hate war and violence, and Russia is terribly wrong to engage, aside legitimate concerns about the frontiers and OTAN. About the Siege Russia did to Ukraine, before the invasion, when the all media of the world became nuts: This is Like Russia feels all these decades after OTAN 1949. Surrounded. But no one cares, but Russia itself, you see?
> 
> I think diplomacy could resolve this, it's hard, but it could. Putin is far from being a good diplomat, though.



You should use 'NATO': rather than 'OTAN' in an English speaking thread not to create confusion.

Modern Russia as never acted in an assuring way towards outsiders: Georgia, Moldova, Ossetia, Chechnya, Ukraine and Syria. Not to mention having for more than once spoken about engaging with Finland

I wasn't been the only war mongering, super power, but there is no feeling sorry for the Russian government. They have resources, they could have established themselves economically and diplomatically but they took the route of oppressing their neighbors beyond their own people.


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## lokomelo (Feb 28, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Thats what Ultra Right wing Conservatives wanted to project mostly because anything against President Biden.
> Most Normal Right Conservatives are not for this conflict.
> the problem is the Normal Conservatives are being slient and all your hearing is the American Nazis sect.


Why everything is an USA's domestic electoral matter for the average American?

From my perspective, every single USA president kept the same degree of interventionism and imperialism at least since I learned to read the news. Russia on other hand was already an expansionist nation like 300 years before USA even exists. This two empires are in a cold fight for influence, as always btw, and the Ukraine is the current victim.


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## Dr_Faustus (Feb 28, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Why everything is an USA's domestic electoral matter for the average American?


Because US politics in this day and age has been rotted away to a point of two opposing teams flinging shit at each other making it each other's fault than doing something practical about it and getting out of their own way about shit. But we do not live in an era of personal accountability and action anymore, so its easier to blame sides than to actually do something about changing things for the better.

Shits like seeing kids argue over which Console is the best. That is our political state of being right now.


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## Valwinz (Feb 28, 2022)

we are been bombarded by a level of propaganda i have never experienced before stories keep getting debunk about magical planes and  fake stories about happenings in the war


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## chrisrlink (Feb 28, 2022)

i hope i didn't misjudge by breaking up with my gf now that Putin raised the stakes by alot by putting his nuke force on standby as i said before 5 bases near me a perfect first target for Russia


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## djpannda (Feb 28, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Why everything is an USA's domestic electoral matter for the average American?
> 
> From my perspective, every single USA president kept the same degree of interventionism and imperialism at least since I learned to read the news. Russia on other hand was already an expansionist nation like 300 years before USA even exists. This two empires are in a cold fight for influence, as always btw, and the Ukraine is the current victim.


lol Trolly Troll 
maybe because I was answering a question '


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## MMX (Feb 28, 2022)

we need to get a list together of gbatempers who make a military group and then we drive to ukraine and fight against russia  

who's with me?


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## Purple_Shyguy (Feb 28, 2022)

pustal said:


> There usually isn't. People are usually either fighting or hiding when guns are fired.



Ok. Well, wasn't there 100,000 troops at the border 5 days ago?

Where's the smartphone footage of them marching down the street? It's literally just a few helicopters, some all terrain vehicles and missiles strikes from hundreds of miles away.


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## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Ok. Well, wasn't there 100,000 troops at the border 5 days ago?
> 
> Where's the smartphone footage of them marching down the street? It's literally just a few helicopters, some all terrain vehicles and missiles strikes from hundreds of miles away.



Well, it's not a parade. Typically a modern warfare advancement starts with air strikes and artillery and then infantry. Air units can bombard or be used to cover artillery (Russia doesn't want to make the country disfuncional to govern so air coverage is mostly being used to cover ground units), and artillery goes before infantry, because you don't want to blow your soldiers with your own tanks.

Infantry units, like anything else use fire arms, so it's cover-based combat.

This is what an attack looks like (NSFW / shocking images) (also, another of many Russian war crimes in this war). The shooters are not out in the open. If you can see them you are also in target for them.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

It's probably already been mentioned, but Anonymous has joined the fight.  Just about everything in Russia has been hacked to display pro-Ukrainian, anti-Putin messages.


----------



## Viri (Feb 28, 2022)

MMX said:


> we need to get a list together of gbatempers who make a military group and then we drive to ukraine and fight against russia
> 
> who's with me?


The only thing tempers would be good at on the battlefield, would be cannon fodder. lol


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 28, 2022)

Heard they're gonna just start bombing the shit outta Ukraine now since the ground troops approach isn't working too well. It's gonna turn more dark by the day. I pray for those who are still alive for their safety.



MMX said:


> we need to get a list together of gbatempers who make a military group and then we drive to ukraine and fight against russia
> 
> who's with me?


I'm sure a lot of people who are against Russia and said Putin should die will gladly join the fight right away without a second thought, yes?


----------



## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I'm sure a lot of people who are against Russia and said Putin should die will gladly join the fight right away without a second thought, yes?


Putin should fucking die.  That's not the same thing as saying, "I'm personally gonna go try to assassinate him."  If things get bad enough and he starts seriously threatening to use nuclear weapons, Seal Team Six will take care of that for us.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 28, 2022)

smf said:


> I say we get Ukraine in NATO tonight and fast track into the EU and just send in all the bombers and fighters from every nation and take out all the nuclear weapons. If that causes a radiation leak then fuck em.
> 
> Series enough?


Hollywood victim. 
Not every nation wants to fight for Ukraine. In fact, no nation does.
You cannot take out all Russian (or American for that matter) nukes without at least hundreds of them landing, resulting in the destruction of Europe (esp. Germany) at least (too close to successfully intercept them all).
Stop being a keyboard warrior and follow the Ukrainian president´s plea to actually be a warrior. Nobody can stop you from joining their military, just like nobody could stop volunteers (including a few Americans) fighting for the People´s Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.
Serious enough? I thought so.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 28, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Putin should fucking die.  That's not the same thing as saying, "I'm personally gonna go try to assassinate him."  If things get bad enough and he starts seriously threatening to use nuclear weapons, Seal Team Six will take care of that for us.


He should die. He is a very dangerous man. And while I believe he will get his comeuppance, it won't' be any time soon, and I especially will not put in stock of any of our soldiers right now, even Seal Team Six, if the head generals are more concerned about "white rage" and putting transgenders in the military. As we are right now, we'd unfortunately get our asses blasted back accross the globe, that is the sad reality we face now.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I especially will not put in stock of any of our soldiers right now, even Seal Team Six, if the head generals are more concerned about "white rage" and putting transgenders in the military. As we are right now, we'd unfortunately get our asses blasted back accross the globe, that is the sad reality we face now.


Are you joking?  The US military would stomp the Russian military into a grease stain on the floor in a matter of days.  The only reason we're hesistant to engage with Russia directly is because they have nukes, and Putin is batshit insane enough to actually use them.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 28, 2022)

And just a quick reminder to all if you need someone else to blame for this, let's look at the tally:

Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia

Obama Presidency: Russia invades Crimea

Trump Presidency: *wind whooshes*

Biden "Presidency": Russia invades Ukraine

See the pattern? If not I'll spell it out for ya. It's obvious Trump and Putin have been plotting behind America's back for years to organize all these invasions so when Trump became president nothing would happen until he left. You might think Trump was the most peace keeping, anti-war president since he ended wars and never started them despite everybody said he was going to start World War 3, but that is simply not true. He is the true evil tyrant behind all this I know it!


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 28, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Are you joking?  The US military would stomp the Russian military into a grease stain on the floor in a matter of days.  The only reason we're hesistant to engage with Russia directly is because they have nukes, and Putin is batshit insane enough to actually use them.


No we wouldn't. We really wouldn't right now. I wish I had your blind confidence but I've seen the state we're in.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> No we wouldn't. We really wouldn't right now. I wish I had your blind confidence but I've seen the state we're in.


Bro, we spend more money on our military than the next seven or eight largest powers combined.   Russia's military is still using a lot of equipment and weapons from world war fucking two.  Ukraine's military isn't even a quarter as big as Russia's, and they've managed to keep Russia from securing any major victories for several days now.

Hell, even Belarus said the Russian military was a joke when they did joint training exercises just before this crisis.  Said they were all drunk and the soldiers were trying to sell fuel to buy more alcohol.

Our entire military could be comprised of trans individuals, and they'd still be infinitely better trained and equipped than Russia's military.  For that matter, Ukraine has been tracking a lot of Russian troop movements by monitoring Grindr lmao.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 28, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Bro, we spend more money on our military than the next seven or eight largest powers combined.   Russia's military is still using a lot of equipment and weapons from world war fucking two.  Ukraine's military isn't even a quarter as big as Russia's, and they've managed to keep Russia from securing any major victories for several days now.
> 
> Hell, even Belarus said the Russian military was a joke when they did joint training exercises just before this crisis.  Said they were all drunk and the soldiers were trying to sell fuel to buy more alcohol.
> 
> Our entire military could be comprised of trans individuals, and they'd still be infinitely better trained and equipped than Russia's military.  For that matter, Ukraine has been tracking a lot of Russian troop movements by monitoring Grindr lmao.


Ok keep believing in that until when an actual war hits us and we get wrecked because of ignorant people like you.


----------



## Xzi (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Ok keep believing in that until when an actual war hits us and we get wrecked because of ignorant people like you.


You're a total moron if you think gay and trans people can't be trained to shoot a target just as well as straight people can.  They've been a part of every war in history, and they're a part of every military on Earth right now, too.  They just can't be open about it in a lot of places.

Besides, future warfare will mostly be fought with drones anyway.


----------



## pustal (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And just a quick reminder to all if you need someone else to blame for this, let's look at the tally:
> 
> Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia
> 
> ...



During the Trump presidency, Russia helped Assad commit mass murder to his opposing people.

The difference is that Trump even widrawn from Syria at his buddy Putin's request, leaving US allies, the Kurds to go fuck themselves.

Even now, Putin invades Ukraine, a soberain nation and Trump praises him.


----------



## linuxares (Feb 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Ok keep believing in that until when an actual war hits us and we get wrecked because of ignorant people like you.


Lol no. The Russian army wouldn't be shit compared to the US army. They still use a lot of old equiptment. Heck even today Ukrainians found Russian MREs to be 7 years out of date. They don't even get proper food (even most MREs are fine).

Even the US army would be able to crush China's army pretty easily. Especially with all the Tomahawk missiles.


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You're a total moron if you think gay and trans people can't be trained to shoot a target just as well as straight people can.  They've been a part of every war in history, and they're a part of every military on Earth right now, too.  They just can't be open about it in a lot of places.
> 
> Besides, future warfare will mostly be fought with drones anyway.



Well, the way this is going, future warfare will be fought with sticks and stones.

But even then, gender and sexual orientation won't matter, only your kill count and strategy capabilities.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 1, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Even the US army would be able to crush China's army pretty easily. Especially with all the Tomahawk missiles.


You do realize that you just downplayed the US army, right? Which army is more powerful?
The US army could win against the Chinese army, but not without nukes and not at China´s doorstep.


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Lol no. The Russian army wouldn't be shit compared to the US army. They still use a lot of old equiptment. Heck even today Ukrainians found Russian MREs to be 7 years out of date. They don't even get proper food (even most MREs are fine).
> 
> Even the US army would be able to crush China's army pretty easily. Especially with all the Tomahawk missiles.


Not to say that the US army is heavily professionalized while the Russian army is throwing draftees at Ukraine.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 1, 2022)

pustal said:


> Not to say that the US army is heavily professionalized while the Russian army is throwing draftees at Ukraine.


Plus stupidly advanced compared to the RU army.


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

A very interesting brief from US CSIS from January 13:



> if the United States and its European partners fail to deter a Russian invasion, they should support Ukrainian resistance through a combination of diplomatic, military, intelligence, and other means. The United States and its European partners cannot allow Russia to annex Ukraine. The West’s appeasement of Moscow when it annexed Crimea in 2014 and then orchestrated an insurgency in Eastern Ukraine only emboldened Russian leaders. In addition, Russian annexation of some or all of Ukraine would increase Russian manpower, industrial capacity, and natural resources to a level that could make it a global threat. The United States and Europe cannot make this mistake again.


The complete thing - it gives some light on what to expect bsides what is happening-:


> *The Issue*
> _If peace talks fail, the Russian military has several options to advance into Ukraine through northern, central, and southern invasion routes. But a Russian attempt to seize and hold territory will not necessarily be easy and will likely be impacted by challenges from weather, urban combat, command and control, logistics, and the morale of Russian troops and the Ukrainian population. The United States and its European allies and partners should be prepared for an invasion by taking immediate economic, diplomatic, military, intelligence, and humanitarian steps to aid Ukraine and its population and shore up defenses along the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s (NATO) eastern flank._
> 
> *Introduction*​Russian president Vladimir Putin continues to threaten an invasion of Ukraine with a major military buildup near the Russian-Ukrainian border and aggressive language. Russia has deployed offensive weapons and systems within striking distance of Ukraine, including main battle tanks, self-propelled howitzers, infantry fighting vehicles, multiple launch rocket systems, Iskander short-range ballistic missile systems, and towed artillery, as highlighted in Figures 1a and 1b. Putin has complemented this buildup with blunt language that Ukraine is historically part of Russia and that Kiev needs to return to the Russian fold.1 Russia’s threat is particularly alarming for at least two reasons. First, Russia could move its pre-positioned forces into Ukraine quickly. If fully committed, the Russian military is significantly stronger and more capable than Ukraine’s military, and the United States and other NATO countries have made it clear they will not deploy their forces to Ukraine to repel a Russian invasion. Even if diplomats reach an agreement, Putin has shown a willingness to dial up—and down—the war in Ukraine and threaten to expand the war, making the Russian threat persistent. Second, an invasion would mark a significant change in international politics, creating a new “Iron Curtain” that begins along Russia’s borders with Finland and the Baltic states and moves south through Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central and South Asia, and finally to East Asia along China’s southern flank.
> ...


----------



## SG854 (Mar 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Ok keep believing in that until when an actual war hits us and we get wrecked because of ignorant people like you.


Declaring war on the U.S. is stupid. You declare war on Nato. And U.S. alone will curb stomp Putin out of existence.


----------



## Viri (Mar 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Trump Presidency: *wind whooshes*


Probably because Trump was unpredictable, and most likely crazy enough to nuke someone. I remember when Putin threatened Trump to stay out of Syria or something like that. And then Trump called Putin's bluff, and drone striked Assad's training exercise or w/e,, which  actually killed 10 Russian "mercenaries".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/13/russian-mercenaries-killed-us-airstrikes-syria
Whoops, lol.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 1, 2022)

Lol this thread makes me Realize all the “conservative” Trump supporter over the last two years on GBATemp were just Putin /CCP sponsored Propaganda trolls or just watch the world burn ones


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 1, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Our entire military could be comprised of trans individuals, and they'd still be infinitely better trained and equipped than Russia's military.


So, basically he is simultaneously complaining about people not taking arms and complaining about people who are taking arms.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 1, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You're a total moron if you think gay and trans people can't be trained to shoot a target just as well as straight people can.  They've been a part of every war in history, and they're a part of every military on Earth right now, too.  They just can't be open about it in a lot of places.


Oh really? Do you stake your life on that? Do you really stake your life on it? Have a battalion of gays and trans protect you and
go up against a unit of powerful Russian men or Chinese men and tell me what happens. If you survive I'll take back what I said.



pustal said:


> During the Trump presidency, Russia helped Assad commit mass murder to his opposing people.
> 
> The difference is that Trump even widrawn from Syria at his buddy Putin's request, leaving US allies, the Kurds to go fuck themselves.
> 
> Even now, Putin invades Ukraine, a soberain nation and Trump praises him.


And he killed nearly a dozen Russian mercenaries in air strikes in Syria. If you were Putin, would you fuck with the man any more after that and risk more damage? You'd be a pretty big fucking idiot to challenge anyone like that without the proper backing. And just because Trump called Putin a smart guy doesn't equate to praising him or approving what he's doing now. You can acknowledge your enemies intellignce and still hate them and want to take them down. Stop spreading actual misinformation, which is common to those who claim when they don't like to hear the truth.


----------



## futures (Mar 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And just a quick reminder to all if you need someone else to blame for this, let's look at the tally:
> 
> Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia
> 
> ...



Correction:

Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia

Obama Presidency: Russia invades Crimea

Trump Presidency: *Russia invades USA*

Biden "Presidency": Russia invades Ukraine


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh really? Do you stake your life on that? Do you really stake your life on it? Have a battalion of gays and trans protect you and
> go up against a unit of powerful Russian men or Chinese men and tell me what happens. If you survive I'll take back what I said.
> 
> 
> And he killed nearly a dozen Russian mercenaries in air strikes in Syria. If you were Putin, would you fuck with the man any more after that and risk more damage? You'd be a pretty big fucking idiot to challenge anyone like that without the proper backing. And just because Trump called Putin a smart guy doesn't equate to praising him or approving what he's doing now. You can acknowledge your enemies intellignce and still hate them and want to take them down. Stop spreading actual misinformation, which is common to those who claim when they don't like to hear the truth.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/trump-syria-attack.html

Also:


> “I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine—of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So, Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force. We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy, I know him very well. Very, very well.”


If "smart" is not a praise to you, is "wonderful" neither?

What about practice what you preach and actually stop with the misinformation?

PS: I'd have no problem having non straight or non male defined people watching my back over straight males. The army requirements are the same. Better yet, I'm not gonna reduce the forces willing to defend me based on a macho insecurity, fuck that. You are capable, willing to fight for me, my country, my people, you're in. Ukraine army and militia is full of women and they aren't checking if anyone's gay In fact, this was even a talking point on Russia propaganda.

Yet Ukraine's giving a hell of a fight to Russia, because, like the brief I just posted above said, they are much more well motivated than Russian soldiers. People are there for the love of their country and people.

Macho insecurity is what led to this war, that is making Putin reckless and preventing him any deescalation. I rather have pondered and pragmatic people in charge too, whatever their personal background is.


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

Russia can no longer reinforce their fleet with more warships.

Doing so would be considered a violation of Turkey territory and could invoke NATO direct involvement.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh really? Do you stake your life on that? Do you really stake your life on it? Have a battalion of gays and trans protect you and
> go up against a unit of powerful Russian men or Chinese men and tell me what happens. If you survive I'll take back what I said.


This sounds like the rantings and ravings of a lead-poisoned boomer, but it's even more pathetic because I know you're a lot younger than that.  Some of the most muscular people I've seen have been gay, and some of the skinniest and fattest drunks I've seen have been Russian.  "Powerful Russian man" is straight-up propaganda that you're buying into, they aren't any more built on average than anyone else.

Not that "strength" is at all relevant here, we're talking about firing a gun.  A 12-year-old girl can be taught to do it properly, and if a gay/trans person is willing to join the military on the front lines of combat, you can be pretty damn sure they're a better shot than most.


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

Xzi said:


> This sounds like the rantings and ravings of a lead-poisoned boomer, but it's even more pathetic because I know you're a lot younger than that.  Some of the most muscular people I've seen have been gay, and some of the skinniest and fattest drunks I've seen have been Russian.  "Powerful Russian man" is straight-up propaganda that you're buying into, they aren't any more built on average than anyone else.
> 
> Not that "strength" is at all relevant here, we're talking about firing a gun.  A 12-year-old girl can be taught to do it properly, and if a gay/trans person is willing to join the military on the front lines of combat, you can be pretty damn sure they're a better shot than most.


A lifetime ago, a few friends used to drag me down to Carnival disco parties (club partes as the kids called these days). Everyone choose a sexy suit to attract the ladies or the lads, depending what they were into, I would hunt down the most ridiculous outfit I could find, like a banana.

This one year I found an amazing shark costume and let's just say I was 'the' photo op of the party.

There is somewhere in the deeps abysses of the internet a photo of me with 3 gay guys dressed as sailors that look like Schwarzenegger in his peak, dancing around me.

If any of them was actually in the navy or military in general, I'm sure he'd emasculate a lot of bigots. I wouldn't be surprised if they where, as there was a military air base nearby.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 1, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Some situation...
> 
> As with (by now) everyone, I've been watching the invasion unfold. The position of Russia quickly changed from "we need to protect Russian minded groups in Donetsk and Luhansk" to "these groupings should have sovereignty" to "we're going to stop Ukraine for resisting us".
> 
> ...


Nato isn't anti Russian but the U.S. has started many wars in the name of national security. Whether it's justified or not.

Putin has gave his reasons why he's at war with Ukraine he said its for his nations security.

If Ukraine joins nato then the U.S. can place nuclear weapons in Ukraine directed at Russia basically at Russians door steps.

Countries joining Nato and Nato countries has been surrounding Russia. Ukraine is the last country before Russia is completely surrounded. And Putin hates nato.

Putin started this war to maintain his power and security for his nation. Putin is an oligarch wanting power. He also failed to diversify his economy and is too reliant on gas and oil. And doesn't want Ukrainian oil to impact his economy.

(This is not me agreeing with Russia. I'm just stating Russians reasons for war. He may be a bit paranoid with Nato)


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 1, 2022)

MMX said:


> we need to get a list together of gbatempers who make a military group and then we drive to ukraine and fight against russia
> 
> who's with me?


Considering the fact that we are all primarily here because we are in one way or another people who enjoy games, chances are we would mostly be best at Drone piloting and striking.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You do realize that you just downplayed the US army, right? Which army is more powerful?
> The US army could win against the Chinese army, but not without nukes and not at China´s doorstep.


Its a split down the middle scenario. China has more raw people to throw at a problem until they can resolve it or they run out of people, the latter of which never seemed to have been a problem before with them. Not saying China has the upper hand in any of this, but if they have any advantage its raw numbers of people that they could militarize in an instant if needed. Even if its the equivalent of just grabbing a handful of bullets and throwing them at your enemy hoping one of them will actually do something. 



djpannda said:


> Lol this thread makes me Realize all the “conservative” Trump supporter over the last two years on GBATemp were just Putin /CCP sponsored Propaganda trolls or just watch the world burn ones


That is nothing really new or surprising. A lot of Trump inspired folk are so twisted in the mindset of hating the democratic party they went from calling them socialists to them embracing the idea of Russia over democracy if it means not having to deal with the democratic party anymore. People really, REALLY wanted Trump to change the ground-set of our country's rules and essentially have him be our version of Putin. 

All I can say about that is, when you fuck up your perception of reality so much that your patriotism turns into high treason you might have a problem on your hands. I must say Joseph McCarthy must be rolling in his grave seeing what happened to the Republican Party.


----------



## Taleweaver (Mar 1, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Nato isn't anti Russian but the U.S. has started many wars in the name of national security. Whether it's justified or not.
> 
> Putin has gave his reasons why he's at war with Ukraine he said its for his nations security.
> 
> ...


Were not talking about the US right now.

Putin's reasons aren't worth much, let alone God enough to attack an innocent country.

And... I'm not saying you agree with Putin's reasons, but can you explain the train of thought there? 
Starting a war with Ukraine always held a risk an escalation with the eu and Russia, and at the very least the former is exactly what he's getting. So how's that for security? In fact, how is it NOT increasing chances the US indeed parking nuclear silos in Ukraine in the near future? 

As for remaining in power... That might work if you've got a large majority of popularity among your citizens. But fraudulent elections, sanctions that hurt the average Russian (the roebel's losing value fast) and the army occupied elsewhere, i wouldn't rule out an uprising or a coup. 

So from what i presume his position is, i would think his chances of either are now being crippled.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 1, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Were not talking about the US right now.
> 
> Putin's reasons aren't worth much, let alone God enough to attack an innocent country.
> 
> ...


I not the person you should be asking these questions. As I didnt come up with this line of thinking. It's putin that you should look toward. He always felt ukraine was a part of Russia.

Putin may be a bit paranoid. Because why else would you invade ukraine and have the whole world band against you and destroy your economy from sanctions. You don't risk all that for nothing. We're trying to rationalise a man whose gone mad.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 1, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Were not talking about the US right now.
> 
> Putin's reasons aren't worth much, let alone God enough to attack an innocent country.
> 
> ...


His country has a strong chance to overpower him but its doubtful that it will happen in this case scenario. 

As for his reason why? He is probably on his way out either mentally or health wise, and basically wants to go out like a mad man. He knows he is not going to get out of this situation in any good way but at this point he does not care. He is riding this out into the sunset, all we can hope for is that this does not end up taking a path too far and into nuclear territory, or that he is stopped before that happens.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 1, 2022)

I was just thinking that… most of the random Twitter troll just stopped..





Guess professionals tend not to work if they don’t get paid

Granted.. I’m seeing soo much more Russian propaganda on Reddit…. My guess is they stopped The American psypios and just focusing on  trying to discredit Ukraine


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 1, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Guess professionals tend not to work if they don’t get paid
> 
> Granted.. I’m seeing soo much more Russian propaganda on Reddit…. My guess is they stopped The American psypios and just focusing on  trying to discredit Ukraine



They don't just do it for money over there, they do it for the reddit karma and gold.


----------



## Taleweaver (Mar 1, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I not the person you should be asking these questions. As I didnt come up with this line of thinking. It's putin that you should look toward. He always felt ukraine was a part of Russia.
> 
> Putin may be a bit paranoid. Because why else would you invade ukraine and have the whole world band against you and destroy your economy from sanctions. You don't risk all that for nothing. We're trying to rationalise a man whose gone mad.


... But i am looking at Putin. That's why i was wondering if you knew a reasoning of what you said. But that's okay.  


Paranoia is just too simple of an explanation. He's a dictator, but i think we'd see a similar situation in the kremlin as in the white house in the Trump days if he was really 'just a mad man'. Putin doesn't have a history of stupid mistakes behind him, so i don't anticipate he's suddenly going full retard.
(it's also better. If we're wrong in that assessment, victory will come eventually. But underestimating could mean many more unnecessary deaths). 

So... What's the long term plan here? Where does he hope to land?


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 1, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Lol this thread makes me Realize all the “conservative” Trump supporter over the last two years on GBATemp were just Putin /CCP sponsored Propaganda trolls or just watch the world burn ones


This is why you should ignore Panda

People dying and here he is with orange man bad


----------



## Glyptofane (Mar 1, 2022)

Pretty amazing that so called liberals are more in line with neocons and Sean Hannity than actual conservatives these days. They've really done a number on you guys over the past few years by completely inverting your entire belief system, pretty much proving there never actually was one and it's just whatever the current programming for soulless automatons dictates.

Can't believe I'm saying it, but Mel Gibson (sorry, force of habit) Bernie Sanders and AOC are mostly right about Ukraine and NATO.


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 1, 2022)

Propaganda is bad not matter what side is comes from


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 1, 2022)

futures said:


> Correction:
> 
> Bush Presidency: Russia invades Georgia
> 
> ...


God damn what a galaxy brain you have.

This should set the precedent of intelligence of half the people in this thread.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> God damn what a galaxy brain you have.
> 
> This should set the precedent of intelligence of half the people in this thread.


at least its good to know Youre a Normal American "Conservative" troll and not a Russia hire. ...


----------



## Flame (Mar 1, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Propaganda is bad not matter what side is comes from



You got "Taiwan is a Country" in your sig. Will you support China like you support Russia when/if China invades Taiwan ?


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Nato isn't anti Russian but the U.S. has started many wars in the name of national security. Whether it's justified or not.
> 
> Putin has gave his reasons why he's at war with Ukraine he said its for his nations security.
> 
> ...


These are the NATO countries:




Russa isn't surrounded. NATO is what it is: a North Atlantic military union.


SG854 said:


> I not the person you should be asking these questions. As I didnt come up with this line of thinking. It's putin that you should look toward. He always felt ukraine was a part of Russia.
> 
> Putin may be a bit paranoid. Because why else would you invade ukraine and have the whole world band against you and destroy your economy from sanctions. You don't risk all that for nothing. We're trying to rationalise a man whose gone mad.


Why else? I stated above:


pustal said:


> This book comes to discussion each time Russia does something like this: 'The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia' - written in 1997, drafted by the Russian Ministry of Defence and that is used as a textbook to higher Russian officials. It sounds like crazy talk and was written by a lunatic but foreshadowed the russian influence in the years to come until now.


Particularly about Ukraine:


> Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[9]


Ukraine joining NATO stops being a 'cordon sanitaire', so by their own logic should invade. Helps that Ukraine has lots of relevant natural resources to explore like oil, gas or neon.
And from the brief I shared:


> In addition, Russian annexation of some or all of Ukraine would increase Russian manpower, industrial capacity, and natural resources to a level that could make it a global threat. The United States and Europe cannot make this mistake again.


----------



## pustal (Mar 1, 2022)

Russia deploys thermobaric bombs to Ukraine.

Talk about escalation...


----------



## smf (Mar 1, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Serious enough? I thought so.


You seem to have too many logical fallacies. Let me know when you've gotten rid of them.


----------



## smf (Mar 1, 2022)

pustal said:


> And from the brief I shared:


It's no good having a work force that just last week you shot at & killed their family.

It's no good having natural resources, if you end up in economic sanctions forever.

If it's ok for them to steal land, then we just take all their money forever & prevent them doing anything. IMO they shouldn't have taken down swift, they should have intercepted all the transactions. It would have taken russia a while to figure that out.


----------



## Flame (Mar 1, 2022)

@smf do you know how to use an edit button?

ive seen you do this across the forum.


----------



## smf (Mar 1, 2022)

Flame said:


> @smf do you know how to use an edit button?
> 
> ive seen you do this across the forum.


I do & with the old forum it was easy. Cutting and pasting quotes from a new post to a previous post does not always work with the new forum and so we're stuck with multiple posts.

I don't know where the delete post button has gone though.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 1, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> ... But i am looking at Putin. That's why i was wondering if you knew a reasoning of what you said. But that's okay.
> 
> 
> Paranoia is just too simple of an explanation. He's a dictator, but i think we'd see a similar situation in the kremlin as in the white house in the Trump days if he was really 'just a mad man'. Putin doesn't have a history of stupid mistakes behind him, so i don't anticipate he's suddenly going full retard.
> ...


Just stating the reasoning but not the why behind this reasoning.



But here are some quotes. Putin sees Nato as a threat.



> "We believe that the eastward expansion of NATO is a mistake and a serious one at that," Boris Yeltsin, Russia's first post-Soviet president, told reporters at a 1997 news conference with US President Bill Clinton





> NATO carried out an aerial bombing campaign against Serbia in 1999 during the Kosovo war. Serbia was a Russian ally. Vladimir Putin was elected president not long thereafter.
> 
> He still cites the bombing as proof of NATO aggression — also in the context of the current crisis.





> Russia's sensitivities over NATO's possible eastward expansion were well known. "No matter how nuanced, if NATO adopts a policy which envisions expansion into Central and Eastern Europe without holding the door open to Russia, it would be universally interpreted in Moscow as directed against Russia," US diplomat James Collins wrote in a State Department cable in 1993.





> "If Ukraine were to join NATO, it would serve as a direct threat to the security of Russia," Putin said in televised remarks on Monday, during which he described Ukraine as a "springboard" for a NATO strike against Russia.



https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681



pustal said:


> These are the NATO countries:
> View attachment 300017
> Russa isn't surrounded. NATO is what it is: a North Atlantic military union.
> 
> ...


Russia is completely surrounded on the left side of their country. Putin sees that as a threat. Look at all those gray areas left of Russia.


----------



## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

smf said:


> It's no good having a work force that just last week you shot at & killed their family.
> 
> It's no good having natural resources, if you end up in economic sanctions forever.
> 
> If it's ok for them to steal land, then we just take all their money forever & prevent them doing anything. IMO they shouldn't have taken down swift, they should have intercepted all the transactions. It would have taken russia a while to figure that out.



Their intention and the outcome that is coming out of it is widely going in different directions.

Same way that Russia wanted the finlandization of Europe and they have led Finland to start discussing joining NATO.

Putin thought of making Ukraine a Chechnya II, he badly misfired. Now he is only keeping the war because he doesn't want to show weakness, because he knows, historically, losing a war is the quickest way to lose power in Russia. This is Putin clinging to power now more than anything else.

That is what makes him so dangerous, and, counterintuitively, why is ever so much important to strengthen the opposition against him.


----------



## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Just stating the reasoning but not the why behind this reasoning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surround literally means all-around. NATO was made to ensure North American and European safety in a cold war setting still.

There was a discussion that NATO should have dissolved in the post-Berlin wall but Russia has put itself in a perpetual war-expansionist state.

Despite existing ocasional NATO misuses, it is a reaction force and countries join in for protection, not for waging war.

The Russian claim that NATO is a threat to Russia is a facade for what truly is: a threat to Russian expansionism - else would NATO never be willing to start a war with a as big as a nuclear power as Russia is. It would be completely counterproductive for NATO-members security.

Now, part of this expansionism does have a certain paranoia to it. If you look at Russian expansion is always towards the mountains that surround it, aiming to take control of the passages between them.

Also a side note: the 1999 Serbian attack was a response to the ethnic cleansing of Albanians and Bosnians - may not have been an offense to NATO they certainly weren't the aggressors here.


----------



## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

pustal said:


> Russia deploys thermobaric bombs to Ukraine.
> 
> Talk about escalation...


Kharkiv tonight:




Your browser is not able to display this video.




@Flame back in PS3Hax we use to have a BB forum option enabled for automerge, that would be very helpful to prevent multi-posting. I'll avoid it too for myself from now on.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 2, 2022)

I Support Russia


----------



## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> I Support Russia



You just came here to heil Putler?


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 2, 2022)

It is hard to tell what's true and what's propaganda since the propaganda machines from news outlets and such have been in hyper drive the since this shitshow started, but one thing is true, the people of Ukraine are getting fucked hard, and it's a shame since so many innocent civilians had to lose their lives to all this bullshit with Putin and many others. And I know I've said before I gotta stop coming to this section, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, especially for my brain cells from the responses here, as well as some funny but sad responses as well.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 2, 2022)

pustal said:


> Surround literally means all-around. NATO was made to ensure North American and European safety in a cold war setting still.
> 
> There was a discussion that NATO should have dissolved in the post-Berlin wall but Russia has put itself in a perpetual war-expansionist state.
> 
> ...


The exact definition of what surround doesn't matter. What matters is what I'm trying to convey with the other words I used in conjunction with it. And the following explanation's to clarify as I couldn't find the right word to convey what I meant at the time so I used the next best thing I could think of. As you already know what I meant was the entire left side of Russia being surrounded not the entire Russia itself. Don't get too hung up at exact definitions. Focus overall on what I meant.


The entire left side is covered in Nato countries. Russia wants the countries to be united again. Putin got pissed that the countries that once was part of Soviet Russia is now a part of Nato. He feels betrayed. He's not going to stop at Ukraine, he going to go after the other countries near there. The world should continue in the future hit Russia's military force financially so that I wont expand into something bigger. We have to weaken the Russian threat.


----------



## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

SG854 said:


> The exact definition of what surround doesn't matter. What matters is what I'm trying to convey with the other words I used in conjunction with it. And following explanation's to clarify as I couldn't find the right word to convey what I meant at the time so I used the next best thing I could think of. As you already know what I meant was the entire left side of Russia being surrounded not the entire Russia itself. Don't get too hung up at exact definitions. Focus overall on what I meant.
> 
> 
> The entire left side is covered in Nato countries. Russia wants the countries to be united again. Putin got pissed that the countries that once was part of Soviet Russia is now a part of Nato. He feels betrayed. He's not going to stop at Ukraine, he going to go after the other countries near there. The world should continue in the future hit Russia's military force financially so that I wont expand into something bigger. We have to weaken the Russian threat.


The entire left side is considered the north Atlantic region: North America and Europe, so it's not unexpected.

I get what you are saying, I'm just trying to convey that there is no "in his defense" here. Not only his actions, but his sentiment is undefensible. NATO is still an opposition force to Russa because Russia has presented itself as an antagonic force for global piece.



pustal said:


> Nord Stream negotiations where in 2005. Fukushima was in 2011. Fukushima was an excuse to go through with the project, I'm sure it helped with Merkel, but it's naive to think she didn't have other pressures, political or otherwise. More than Merkel, Fukushima swaded the German public perception more than any political intentions.
> 
> Also, directly from Wikipedia:


For anyone interested:




pustal said:


> Soviet Union back? No, no, no... He wants the Russian Empire back. He uses National Bolshevism foreign policy, but the internal policies have nothing to do with Bolshevism and he wants to be remember as a new tzar, a conqueror.



From the documentary above:



> Sergei Kolesnikov: [through interpreter] I started saying that I'm not happy withall the finances going for this palace. And I was told that Putin is the czar and you are his serf.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 2, 2022)

pustal said:


> The entire left side is considered the north Atlantic region: North America an Europe, so it's not unexpected.
> 
> I get what you are saying, I'm just trying to convey that there is no "in his defense" here. Not only his actions, but his sentiment is undefensible. NATO is still an opposition force to Russa because Russia has presented itself as an antagonic force for global piece.
> 
> ...



I myself in a previous post directed at someone else said that I do not agree with what Putin is doing so that people won't get the wrong ideas. I'm only stating Putin's reasons to try to understand the why. Not whether I agree with it or not. I agree as well as majority of the first world that Putin's actions is indefensible.


----------



## Viri (Mar 2, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> People dying and here he is with orange man bad


See


Viri said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


War is good, because it keeps orange Hitler out of office.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 2, 2022)

Viri said:


> See
> 
> War is good, because it keeps orange Hitler out of office.


That's right. We can't have that tyrant back in, so let's destroy the world and kill everybody to make sure it doesn't happen!


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 2, 2022)

Viri said:


> War is good, because it keeps orange Hitler out of office.


Historical precedent: *exists*
Viri: _how can I misconstrue this as leftists wanting war_


BitMasterPlus said:


> That's right. We can't have that tyrant back in, so let's destroy the world and kill everybody to make sure it doesn't happen!


Considering that the republican party has turned into a fascist group, with trump hitting about 11-13 of the 14 characteristics of fascism (look it up)
with sexism (anti trans, or believing that there is something "wrong" with trans people, or still to this day, gay people) still being rampant
constant usage of scapegoats varying from "the illegals out to take your jobs" to "Social justice warriors out to take your guns" with communist, or leftist, or socialist thrown in between those statements without even consideration.
to a joining of religion and state to a horrifying degree, as church and state should be separated and remained that way.
That original statement (tweet in question)
 was more trying to look at the end of the light in the tunnel in a dark period of time, the silverlinging in this mess. rather than "oh good war!"


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## Nothereed (Mar 2, 2022)

snipped


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## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

Viri said:


> See
> 
> War is good, because it keeps orange Hitler out of office.





BitMasterPlus said:


> That's right. We can't have that tyrant back in, so let's destroy the world and kill everybody to make sure it doesn't happen!



I'm sorry, a women who does voice over for anime is relevant here because?

2/3 of the UN are supporting Ukraine against Putin to support re-election of the US president in your narrative now?

Attacking a country for wanting to join NATO is an indirect attack to NATO, for starters. As I discussed above with expert sources, the conquest of Ukraine means an explosion of resources and men-power to a country led by a lunatic. Not to mention Putin wanted to once again show weakness in Europe and NATO to increase doubt in it and work towards the Finlandization of Europe and its isolationist counter-inteligence tactics.

Trump was brought into this conversation once for his appraisal of Putin in this dire time, as well as his mouthpieces. You 3 guys have brought him up more times to the conversation than the rest and out of topic.

You are the ones picking on a global tragedy to make the never-ending American political propaganda that Putin so much loved to finance.


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## Xzi (Mar 2, 2022)

With the world united against them, seems morale is at an all-time low for Russian troops:

Some Russian troops are surrendering to Ukrainian forces without a fight as morale drops, US defense official says

Pretty soon the only person left to fight Putin's war will be Putin.


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## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> With the world united against them, seems morale is at an all-time low for Russian troops:
> 
> Some Russian troops are surrendering to Ukrainian forces without a fight as morale drops, US defense official says
> 
> Pretty soon the only person left to fight Putin's war will be Putin.



I just hope if he feels the urge to go nuclear that he'll have people inside to stop him.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 2, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Historical precedent: *exists*
> Viri: _how can I misconstrue this as leftists wanting war_
> 
> Considering that the republican party has turned into a fascist group, with trump hitting about 11-13 of the 14 characteristics of fascism (look it up)
> ...


Jesus man you just joined the site, why don't you wait a while and make more posts before becoming an unlikable asshole who spouts BS? Unless you're just a dummy account created by someone else here.


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## Viri (Mar 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> With the world united against them, seems morale is at an all-time low for Russian troops:
> 
> Some Russian troops are surrendering to Ukrainian forces without a fight as morale drops, US defense official says
> 
> Pretty soon the only person left to fight Putin's war will be Putin.


I mean yeah, they're the aggressors in a war against people that are pretty much their brothers and sisters, and share a lot of history together. Even their languages are very similar.


It would be like being a US solder and being told to invade Canada or the UK, because Canada/UK wanted to make a decision your leaders didn't like.  If Russia didn't want Ukraine to join NATO, then, umm, stop invading them? lol


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## lokomelo (Mar 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Pretty soon the only person left to fight Putin's war will be Putin.


If the decision makers were the ones that really suffered the consequences... that would really be awesome...

Anyway, on Sunday on newspaper cover there was a dead soldier (allegedly Russian) burned up in front of a half destroyed building. That really gave me a bad chill on spine, it was one of first things I saw that morning.

The big generals, Putin and other decision makers will not face the fate of that person no matter what. Imperialism is just that, the top guys reap the benefits when the come, but the regular people are the one that face the bad consequences.


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## Dr_Faustus (Mar 2, 2022)

By the way, wasn't today the day that Putin would claim Victory over Ukraine? 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/ex-russian-official-putins-plan-is-full-victory-on-march-2

Well, shit. Anyone want to pull out the good ol' Bush "Mission Accomplished" meme?



BitMasterPlus said:


> Jesus man you just joined the site, why don't you wait a while and make more posts before becoming an unlikable asshole who spouts BS? Unless you're just a dummy account created by someone else here.



Hey *Pot*, meet _Kettle_!

Seriously though, talking down to someone who just joined here? I am sorry if I might be out of line here or not but nothing is more assholish than shitting on someone who wanted to jump in on the conversation, mainly because it got your political marbles in a twist. Be respectful of others for heavens sake, even if you do not agree with them on the political spectrum. 

Inb4 I get dunked on for "backseat moderating".


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## Dark Ronin (Mar 2, 2022)

Please, stop believe in everything that your mass media is telling you. There's not much truth in their "news".
I'm from Russia and I live here. It's kinda funny and yet scary to see you people here judging the situation as if you're standing in a center of it and witness it with your own eyes.
Zelenski, guided by NATO, pushed racism to a higher level with recent Donbass bombardments, leaving Russian goverment no choise but to interfere. And of course no one will ever tell you that, because it puts Nato and ukrainian government in a tight spot.
Do you know how much AK firearms Zelenski threw into mass with no need even for passport or ID? Come and take! Biggest maradeur outbrake ever seen! Hundereds of people shot just by their nationality - Russians, even they're legit UKR citizens! Thousands of houses and appartments got robbed, people killed by own fellow citizens! Do you know all that!? And on top of that he opens up prisons and let criminals take up firearms and walk away for fucking free!!! Hoping they're up to fight Russian squadrons while they really don't. That's your UKR president in a glance.


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## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Please, stop believe in everything that your mass media is telling you. There's not much truth in their "news".
> I'm from Russia and I live here. It's kinda funny and yet scary to see you people here judging the situation as if you're standing in a center of it and witness it with your own eyes.
> Zelenski, guided by NATO, pushed racism to a higher level with recent Donbass bombardments, leaving Russian goverment no choise but to interfere. And of course no one will ever tell you that, because it puts Nato and ukrainian government in a tight spot.
> Do you know how much AK firearms Zelenski threw into mass with no need even for passport or ID? Come and take! Biggest maradeur outbrake ever seen! Hundereds of people shot just by their nationality - Russians, even they're legit UKR citizens! Thousands of houses and appartments got robbed, people killed by own fellow citizens! Do you know all that!? And on top of that he opens up prisons and let criminals take up firearms and walk away for fucking free!!! Hoping they're up to fight Russian squadrons while they really don't. That's your UKR president in a glance.


It's kinda sad rather how you are eating all the propaganda Putin's puting out. You want to doubt any news put out by outlets from NATO countries, fine, pick up Al Jazeera, or something from Finland / Sweden.

Wake up, Putin is not your friend. He steals money and resources form his own people, assassinates oppostion either by character or actual assassination, remember Litvinenko and Navalni, and warmongers to feed his oligarch friends.

Putin is a dictator, the news you read will never be free while he is his lackeys like Medvedev are in power. It's ridiculous the suggestion that a dictatorship news feed is to be trusted against a whole world of Democratic news outlets.

You say you are in Russia, you are not in Ukraine either. All you know is the fassade of false flag operations so traditional from Putin. Wake up!


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 2, 2022)

pustal said:


> It's kinda sad rather how you are eating all the propaganda Putin's puting out. You want to doubt any news put out by outlets from NATO countries, fine, pick up Al Jazeera, or something from Finland / Sweden.
> 
> Wake up, Putin is not your friend. He steals money and resources form its own people, assassinates opostion either by character or actual assassination, remember Navalni and warmongers to feed his oligarch friends.
> 
> ...


Some of my friends at the frontline right now, so I got the information from first hands.
And we DO know who Putin is and what he did and capable of doing. But as of right now, you're the one who dealing with propaganda.
Come to think of it, Russia never had any nazi batallions or squadrons. Not even once. And Ukrainians got at lease two - Dnepr and Azov, that officially recognized by Europe as nazi! And you all just feels perfectly fine about it as long as they're not a threat for you but for a civilians in Donbass\Donetsk\Lugansk. Open your eyes for God's sake. Sitting over the ocean it's hard to really imagine what happened here all these years, while this is "just around the corner" for us Russians. We got friends, relatives in Ukraine and we DO KNOW what really takes place there past these years since Maidan, while your position is heavily depend on mass media and mostly staged by someone.
1. Where were you when US Government bobmarded civilians in Yugoslavia and slew Miloshevich?
2. Where were you when NATO destroys Libia, leaving no rock unturned and sucking their land dry, killing Muammar Kaddhafi?
3. Where were you when your US military set fire in Iraq and punish Saddam Hussain?
4. Siria. Once again, why do you tolerate US involvement?

What I want to say here is US should STFU instead of labeling someone as "aggressor" and "tyrant".


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## x_sh (Mar 2, 2022)

lmao Dark Ronin please go back to whatever troll farm that hired you, it's past midnight in saint petersburg, get some quality sleep or play some video games / install CFW / i don't really care
отрабатываешь методичку на пять с плюсом, что ещё тут скажешь


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## pustal (Mar 2, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Come to think of it, Russia never had any nazi batallions or squadrons.  Not even once. And Ukrainians got at lease two - Dnepr and Azov, that officially recognized by Europe as nazi! And you all just feels perfectly fine about it as long as they're not a threat for you but for a civilians in Donbass\Donetsk\Lugansk.



Russia has a National Bolshevik Party created by a guy that wrote the book on international relations studied by government and military officials.

The Ukrainian government ordered the replacement of volunteer batallions back in 2005 and replaced them with government ones. Kyiv is not responsible for durther actions of extremist groups.



Dark Ronin said:


> Open your eyes for God's sake. Sitting over the ocean it's hard to really imagine what happened here all these years, while this is "just around the corner" for us Russians. We got friends, relatives in Ukraine and we DO KNOW what really takes place there past these years since Maidan, while your position is heavily depend on mass media and mostly staged by someone.



The ignorance and the thought that we do not have ties with Ukraine shows how in your bubble you are, Ukrainians represent one of the biggest immigration groups in our country (and those numbers are seriously outdated). And trust me, they are not welcoming Russia.

Also, I don't know you think you are talking to, but Portugal is in the same continent as Ukraine and part of Russia.



Dark Ronin said:


> 1. Where were you when US Government bobmarded civilians in Yugoslavia and slew Miloshevich?



Poor Miloshevich , we didn't let him continue his ethnic cleansing, US didn't attach Milosevich, NATO did and we were right there.



Dark Ronin said:


> 2. Where were you when NATO destroys Libia, leaving no rock unturned and sucking their land dry, killing Muammar Kaddhafi?
> 
> 3. Where were you when your US military set fire in Iraq and punish Saddam Hussain?
> 
> 4. Siria. Once again, why do you tolerate US involvement?



You see a pattern here? You are weeping for dictators and don't mind massacres, exterminations and ethinc cleansings. I'll give you Iraq, that was a shit show, but everything else? Assad, Miloshevich and Gaddafi -  and even Saddam, even though the interventions where misguided, he may not had WMDs but by God he had and used chemical weapons - where murderers.

The US is imperialist, yes, but at least it has nuance. Your government has chosen the anti-humanitarian side over and over again and you are eating all of it.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 2, 2022)

Time and history will tell. That's all I say for now. Good luck.


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 2, 2022)

I hard disagree with war as a means to solve the issue. It should have been done with diplomacy.
Everyone loses from this war, first and foremost, Ukranians, followed by Russians, the rest of Europe and then the rest of the world, since this has economical consequences for everyone, some more than others.

Even a simple assassination (Putin's or Zelensky's), which I'd also not agree with, would have been, at the very least, much better than this war.

As for some of the above mentioned alleged dictators, you will find that a lot (over half) of the people in their country/original country actually like them or think they were in the right. Stockholm effect or not, it's interesting to say the least.


----------



## such (Mar 2, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Is this a common sentiment in the US or is it fringe?



Right, I think that's plenty Internet for me for the year.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 2, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> The big generals, Putin and other decision makers will not face the fate of that person no matter what. Imperialism is just that, the top guys reap the benefits when the come, but the regular people are the one that face the bad consequences.


Dictators like Putin also have a habit of causing themselves to become increasingly isolated over time though, until more of their own people want them dead than alive.  Especially when it comes to doubling down on terrible decisions like this.  There's a non-zero chance he ends up with a bullet in his head, even if it's by his own hand, and the odds just keep increasing the longer this drags on.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 2, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Please, stop believe in everything that your mass media is telling you. There's not much truth in their "news".
> I'm from Russia and I live here. It's kinda funny and yet scary to see you people here judging the situation as if you're standing in a center of it and witness it with your own eyes.
> Zelenski, guided by NATO, pushed racism to a higher level with recent Donbass bombardments, leaving Russian goverment no choise but to interfere. And of course no one will ever tell you that, because it puts Nato and ukrainian government in a tight spot.
> Do you know how much AK firearms Zelenski threw into mass with no need even for passport or ID? Come and take! Biggest maradeur outbrake ever seen! Hundereds of people shot just by their nationality - Russians, even they're legit UKR citizens! Thousands of houses and appartments got robbed, people killed by own fellow citizens! Do you know all that!? And on top of that he opens up prisons and let criminals take up firearms and walk away for fucking free!!! Hoping they're up to fight Russian squadrons while they really don't. That's your UKR president in a glance.


>Implying that citizens *shouldn’t* be armed

The Ukraine is a poster child for citizens responsibly utilising firearms against foreign aggressors right now. An armed society is a polite society - the fact that most European countries deprived their citizens of the right to bear arms is a modern tragedy. Hopefully events like this will show the utility of allowing citizens to own and operate firearms for the purposes of self-defense.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 2, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> By the way, wasn't today the day that Putin would claim Victory over Ukraine?
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/ex-russian-official-putins-plan-is-full-victory-on-march-2
> 
> ...


He joined the site and his first post was to respond to me and someone else, so he was asking for it at that point, I just responded back since he wanted to target me first as soon as they joined.


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## lokomelo (Mar 2, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> >Implying that citizens *shouldn’t* be armed
> 
> The Ukraine is a poster child for citizens responsibly utilising firearms against foreign aggressors right now. An armed society is a polite society - the fact that most European countries deprived their citizens of the right to bear arms is a modern tragedy. Hopefully events like this will show the utility of allowing citizens to own and operate firearms for the purposes of self-defense.


That's just a bad reading of a gigantic situation in a narrow light of tiny little political flag.

I can come up with something like that for any day to day political view of mine, just like that:

"Ukrainians civilians found an easier route of escape by train rather than by car, while Russian army are exploiting the Ukraine's road system for the sake of their invasion. So this war should teach us to halt investments in cars and invest in trains."

This whole mess should teach us nothing but to being more human and tolerate imperialism less, or not at all. Our domestic little political demands should be treated domestically.


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## Viri (Mar 2, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Come to think of it, Russia never had any nazi batallions or squadrons. Not even once. And Ukrainians got at lease two - Dnepr and Azov, that officially recognized by Europe as nazi


I'm so confused, why are you even bringing up Nazis? What does that even have to do with anything?


Russia wanting to "liberate" and save ethnic Ger-err Russians sounds a bit like a certain man with a funny mustache. Yet you're randomly bringing up Nazis.


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## pustal (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> >Implying that citizens *shouldn’t* be armed
> 
> The Ukraine is a poster child for citizens responsibly utilising firearms against foreign aggressors right now. An armed society is a polite society - the fact that most European countries deprived their citizens of the right to bear arms is a modern tragedy. Hopefully events like this will show the utility of allowing citizens to own and operate firearms for the purposes of self-defense.



An armed society is whatever it is depending on the circumstances. Somalia isn't a polite society although armed, Switzerland is. The Netherlands have got a low armed society and is, and also has Myanmar and has an ongoing genocide. Give them guns and the majority will murder the minority faster.

Switzerland and the Netherlands have heavy gun control. The first allows and incites people to keep their service guns, but provides a great level of gun education and psychological evaluation, not to mention keeping a registry, while the Netherlands opt for a disarmed society.


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## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 3, 2022)

Russian will kick Nato and ukraine a$$, russia defending their honor and the border of their region


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## pustal (Mar 3, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> Russian will kick Nato and ukraine a$$, russia defending their honor and the border of their region


When someone defends a border, usually they are on their side of the border...

When they are not, it's called an invasion.

Also there is no honor to defend when you target civilians or arresting children for laying flowers.

That's not Russia defending Russia's honor, is Russian government defending Putin's coward ass.

Though it is a sign of madness when you are more afraid of a child with a flower than nuclear warhead.

Also old women:


Can you taste the glory in that? Can you tell me he is doing that for the Russian's people honor? Do you have the Russian people in so low shameful regard? Do their feelings need to be protected from the children and the elderly aside from the Ukrainian bogeyman that didn't touch them or didn't want to have anything to do with them?

And if you are so confident on their kicking anyone else's ass, why do they need to use thermobaric, cluster and vacuum bombs? That's not kicking someone's ass, that's rage turning the table because the game wasn't going as planned.

Wanna see honest Russian strength and character? I'll show you real Russian strength and character in the brave soldiers that go against oders, sabotage their own offensive and turn to the side the witness to be in the right. Those are some of the real heroes, alongside the Russians that protest at home, independently of their own age a physical condition, even if they are a 77 elder. My respect to them. My disgust to Putin.


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## KingVamp (Mar 3, 2022)

Polite society, just ignore all the mass shootings.


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## Viri (Mar 3, 2022)

Can someone tell me why Russia is so damn scared of Ukraine joining NATO, when Russia can end all life on Earth if they felt like it?


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## Reiten (Mar 3, 2022)

Viri said:


> Can someone tell me why Russia is so damn scared of Ukraine joining NATO, when Russia can end all life on Earth if they felt like it?


It's probably more of an excuses then actual fear. From a more sober standpoint, it would diminish their influence in the country and  make meddling in Ukraine a lot more troublesome and risky.
I mean if the goal was to limit NATO influence in Ukraine they could have easily done it diplomatically in at least 2 ways:

Ukraine joins the NATO, but a contract is signed that prevents the stationing of NATO troops and hardware in Ukraine;
Ukraine doesn't enter the NATO, but a contract gets signed that allows for protection in case that Russian troops cross the boarder;


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## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

pustal said:


> An armed society is whatever it is depending on the circumstances. Somalia isn't a polite society although armed, Switzerland is. The Netherlands have got a low armed society and is, and also has Myanmar and has an ongoing genocide. Give them guns and the majority will murder the minority faster.
> 
> Switzerland and the Netherlands have heavy gun control. The first allows and incites people to keep their service guns, but provides a great level of gun education and psychological evaluation, not to mention keeping a registry, while the Netherlands opt for a disarmed society.


I like how you’re comparing an impoverished country in the middle of Africa that’s ruled by pirates and warlords that came to power after over 20 years of civil war to a normal western democracy pretending that these are somehow equivalent. Average citizens in Somalia aren’t armed, the “bad guys” are - rule of law is non-existent, so you can’t argue civil society. The same can be said about Myanmar, former Burma. For the record, with “possible genocide” looming over my head I would 100% feel safer and more secure with an AK47 rather than without, but hey, let’s both make bad faith arguments pretending that democratic states are equivalent to literal Mad Max “states”. Yeah, you’re right - the “circumstances” sure are different - reductio ad absurdum would like to have a word with you.


KingVamp said:


> Polite society, just ignore all the mass shootings.


Cost of freedom. Besides, how many school shootings is Switzerland dealing with? Before you answer, the murder rate is near zero. Perhaps there are other factors that lead to school shootings that are completely unrelated to gun ownership, and maybe you should blame those rather than basic civil rights, like the right to self-defense?


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## Dark Ronin (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I like how you’re comparing an impoverished country in the middle of Africa that’s ruled by pirates and warlords that came to power after over 20 years of civil war to a normal western democracy pretending that these are somehow equivalent. Average citizens in Somalia aren’t armed, the “bad guys” are - rule of law is non-existent, so you can’t argue civil society. The same can be said about Myanmar, former Burma. For the record, with “possible genocide” looming over my head I would 100% feel safer and more secure with an AK47 rather than without, but hey, let’s both make bad faith arguments pretending that democratic states are equivalent to literal Mad Max “states”. Yeah, you’re right - the “circumstances” sure are different - reductio ad absurdum would like to have a word with you.
> Cost of freedom. Besides, how many school shootings is Switzerland dealing with? Before you answer, the murder rate is near zero. Perhaps there are other factors that lead to school shootings that are completely unrelated to gun ownership, and maybe you should blame those rather than basic civil rights, like the right to self-defense?


So you think it's OK to giveaway AK's to any man willing to have one, even if he is insane and psychopath? Polite society my a$$.
And I sure as hell bet that you've never encountered gunfire yourself, not even once facing its lethality.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> That's just a bad reading of a gigantic situation in a narrow light of tiny little political flag.
> 
> I can come up with something like that for any day to day political view of mine, just like that:
> 
> ...


An armed society is significantly more difficult to conquer by an aggressor, I don’t see why this is somehow a “shocking” or “overly simplified” stance - history shows us countless examples of that being true. Russian troops are in a whale of a pickle now learning the same lesson American troops learned in places like Fallujah - firearms in the hands of citizens turn every situation tense. Whenever a soldier opens the door, there’s a non-zero chance that there’ll be a barrel of a weapon on the other side waiting for them, whether it’s a military or non-military structure. I fully understand the comfort of leaving things up to the government overlords, but that’s an argument you can comfortably make from a distance, not when there are armored vehicles outside of your window. Given an option to choose whether I’d like to be armed or unarmed in an active warzone, I’m going to pick armed 10 out of 10 times - that’s the sensible answer, if not for country then at least for my own personal safety.


Dark Ronin said:


> So you think it's OK to giveaway AK's to any man willing to have one, even if he is insane and psychopath? Polite society my a$$.
> And I sure as hell bet that you've never encountered gunfire yourself, not even once facing its lethality.


They should have the right to own them regardless - the government wouldn’t have to rely on volunteers if it didn’t seize privately owned weapons in the first place. For the record, I’m Polish - after many years of Soviet occupation I have no love for the Russian military. Maybe Putin and his cronies wouldn’t be getting embarrassed by completely untrained combatants right now if they kept their noses out of the business of other sovereign nations. Hate to break it to you, but the days of great Mother Russia are over - the country has a smaller GDP than the state of Texas. The western powers don’t even need to get involved too much - they could outspend Russia into oblivion, as they have with the Soviet Union. Giant on clay legs, Putin learned all the wrong lessons after his illustrious KGB career in a totalitarian state that ran on genocide, and he didn’t learn any new tricks after the regime change. The Russian people don’t want this - they want to progress past the mistakes of the 20th century. They want to join the 21st century with their western neighbours, and Putin is feeling the brunt of that sentiment in Russia right now - that’s why he’s arresting those who have the guts to protest this unwarranted invasion.


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## Viri (Mar 3, 2022)

I hope Ukraine gets their own "Second Amendment" after this is all done and over with.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

Viri said:


> I hope Ukraine gets their own "Second Amendment" after this is all done and over with.


I doubt that very much, but the thousands of volunteers will forever be remembered as heroes, as they should be. I’m simply pointing out a factor that nobody seems to account for - right now the lines between civilian and enemy combatant are blurred in Ukraine, and that’s part of the reason why Russian troops are getting swatted like flies. The second reason is that they expected to be in and out, so they’re grossly unprepared in terms of food and shelter. The lucky ones get to sleep in armored carriers, and they’re all looting local stores in order to obtain scraps of food. They were told the citizenry will welcome them as liberators - what they saw instead was the citizenry opening fire on them. Quite demoralising - no wonder a lot of them are deserting, in spite of overwhelmingly superior firepower. Now, whether people are comfortable with it or not, those are facts.


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## pustal (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I like how you’re comparing an impoverished country in the middle of Africa that’s ruled by pirates and warlords that came to power after over 20 years of civil war to a normal western democracy pretending that these are somehow equivalent. Average citizens in Somalia aren’t armed, the “bad guys” are - rule of law is non-existent, so you can’t argue civil society. The same can be said about Myanmar, former Burma. For the record, with “possible genocide” looming over my head I would 100% feel safer and more secure with an AK47 rather than without, but hey, let’s both make bad faith arguments pretending that democratic states are equivalent to literal Mad Max “states”. Yeah, you’re right - the “circumstances” sure are different - reductio ad absurdum would like to have a word with you.
> Cost of freedom. Besides, how many school shootings is Switzerland dealing with? Before you answer, the murder rate is near zero. Perhaps there are other factors that lead to school shootings that are completely unrelated to gun ownership, and maybe you should blame those rather than basic civil rights, like the right to self-defense?


No, school shootings are related to ease access of guns including military grade guns without any kind of regulation and mental evaluation.

China had a lot of school attacks, but because public gun ownership is unexistent, victims were in the units. Guns in the hands of those kids would be a multiplier to the tragedy.

In Switzerland there are no gun incidents because people are highly military trained before, strictly evaluated and gun ownership is closely controlled.

But fine, you don't want Somalia as an example, have the US. High, undescriminated and unevaluated gun ownership give you militias and the insurrection you had last year, school shootings to a ridiculous frequency, gun related crime and incients through the roof and police fear to do their job.

You are paranoid that your democratically ellect government will come after you and you'll need the guns to defend against what? The most powerful army on the planet? The most overequiped police force? To the point that paranoia almost threw down the democratic part of that government.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

pustal said:


> No, school shootings are related to ease access of guns including military grade guns without any kind of regulation and mental evaluation.
> 
> China had a lot of school attacks, but because public gun ownership is unexistent, victims were in the units. Guns in the hands of those kids would be a multiplier to the tragedy.
> 
> ...


I’ve already addressed this point in the post you’re quoting. No school shootings in Switzerland. Chalk it up to training all you want - I’m not opposed to training, I’m opposed to restrictions on basic civil rights. If a little training is your idea of sensible gun control then we’re in agreement and there’s nothing to argue about. Seems to me that other factors are at play. I *can* imagine why school shootings were prevalent in China though, considering it’s a totalitarian nightmare which, until 5 minutes ago, heavily restricted reproductive rights of its citizens which led to the emergence of the “tiger mom” phenomenon and an unreasonable “Asian style” pursuit of success. Chinese children are under an immense amount of stress for no reason - without looking at any statistics at all I’m willing to wager they snap all the time, from suicide through domestic violence, to more public displays of aggression. If there’s one kind of kid I wouldn’t want to be, it’s a kid in the Chinese school system, under the watchful eye of overbearing parents.

EDIT: Besides, your “training” argument falls apart when you account for the fact that many mass shootings in the U.S. are committed by *former servicemen* with years of training under their belt, along with extensive psych evaluation which somehow doesn’t pick up on the extensive PTSD springing from the U.S. military complex getting involved in conflicts it has no business getting involved in. Are those the “circumstances” you mentioned, or are we still going to pretend we don’t understand the saying I quoted?


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## pustal (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I’ve already addressed this point in the post you’re quoting. No school shootings in Switzerland. Chalk it up to training all you want - I’m not opposed to training, I’m opposed to restrictions on basic civil rights. If a little training is your idea of sensible hun control then we’re in agreement and there’s nothing to argue about. Seems to me that other factors are at play. I *can* imagine why school shootings were prevalent in China though, considering it’s a totalitarian nightmare which, until 5 minutes ago, heavily restricted reproductive rights of its citizens which led to the emergence of the “tiger mom” phenomenon and an unreasonable “Asian style” pursuit of success. Chinese children are under an immense amount of stress for no reason - without looking at any statistics at all I’m willing to wager they snap all the time, from suicide to domestic violence, to more public displays of aggression.
> 
> EDIT: Besides, your “training” argument falls apart when you account for the fact that many mass shootings in the U.S. are committed by *former servicemen* with years of training under their belt, along with extensive psych evaluation which somehow doesn’t pick up on the extensive PTSD springing from the U.S. military complex getting involved in conflicts it has no business getting involved in.


Read all I wrote there and before. Switzerland: training and regulation. You need a military certification to have a gun that, amount other things certified you are trained and mentally fit to possess a gun. Furthermore the guns you own have to be registered and so any ammo that you buy that is serialized. You can't go out and buy any military grade weapons as well. You need a permit and a good justification too purchase some weapons.

The problem with the US isn't that people can have guns, is that people can have guns without due diligence because "freedom". And because of that, as you claimed above, it doesn't make people any more polite.

As for your veterans, listen to them. They complain the lack of health treatment after their service and psych evaluations mean nothing if outdated. Nothing stops them from developing PTSD and go buy a gun.


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## AlanGreen (Mar 3, 2022)

pustal said:


> When someone defends a border, usually they are on their side of the border...
> 
> When they are not, it's called an invasion.
> 
> ...



What is happening in Russia is horrible and immoral.


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## sailr (Mar 3, 2022)

*My assessment of the situation in Ukraine is like that in a song*
Прожитых под светом Звезды
По имени Солнце.
И две тысячи лет - война,
Война без особых причин.
Война - дело молодых,
Лекарство против морщин.
Красная, красная кровь -
Через час уже просто земля,
Через два на ней цветы и трава,
Через три она снова жива
И согрета лучами Звезды
По имени Солнце.
*----name:【звезда по имени солнце】 singer:Виктор Цой
Unfortunately, I don't know the English lyrics of this song
(I only know his Chinese)
You can find it on YouTube*


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## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

pustal said:


> Read all I wrote there and before. Switzerland: training and regulation. You need a military certification to have a gun that, amount other things certified you are trained and mentally fit to possess a gun. Furthermore the guns you own have to be registered and so any ammo that you buy that is serialized. You can't go out and buy any military grade weapons as well. You need a permit and a good justification too purchase some weapons.
> 
> The problem with the US isn't that people can have guns, is that people can have guns without due diligence because "freedom". And because of that, as you claimed above, it doesn't make people any more polite.
> 
> As for your veterans, listen to them. They complain the lack of health treatment after their service and psych evaluations mean nothing if outdated. Nothing stops them from developing PTSD and go buy a gun.


So you are going to pretend not to understand. Not really the subject of the thread, so I won’t indulge you, but a prerequisite to having a polite society is to have a civil society in the first place. You coming up with examples like Somalia makes you look foolish, that’s all I have to say on the matter.

For the record, gun regulation in Switzerland is among the most lax in the entire world - ownership is almost completely unregulated. There is no license required to own arms, regardless of whether you are a citizen or a foreigner. Only acquisition is regulated via shall-issue permits, which do not apply to a wide variety of weapons. I don’t know exactly how you imagine this works, but you could take a flight to Switzerland right now and, in all likelihood, purchase a rifle without too much trouble and with no permanent residence. Citizen service is unrelated to gun control, it has to do with preparedness, if anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland


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## Xzi (Mar 3, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> Russian will kick Nato and ukraine a$$, russia defending their honor and the border of their region


You know Putin is desperate when he's paying the troll farms for propaganda posts and likes on GBAtemp.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You know Putin is desperate when he's paying the troll farms for propaganda posts and likes on GBAtemp.


It’s actually a phenomenon we noticed a long time ago, and something we pay close attention to. We apply specific rules to such members, there’s a sticky in this forum for a reason.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/political-disinformation-propaganda-ops-infiltrating-gbatemp-too.593080/

Disinfo and propaganda isn’t anything new online - we’re quite familiar with bad actors and routinely remove them if they’re found to be here exclusively in bad faith.


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## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You know Putin is desperate when he's paying the troll farms for propaganda posts and likes on GBAtemp.





Foxi4 said:


> It’s actually a phenomenon we noticed a long time ago, and something we pay close attention to. We apply specific rules to such members, there’s a sticky in this forum for a reason.
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/political-disinformation-propaganda-ops-infiltrating-gbatemp-too.593080/
> 
> Disinfo and propaganda isn’t anything new online - we’re quite familiar with bad actors and routinely remove them if they’re found to be here exclusively in bad faith.


in other words 
Costello​- their registration and content IP address match suspicious russian VPNs and host names, or other
- they relay exclusively Russian-backed propaganda/narrative
- they rely on the same tactics as other disinformation bots found on Facebook, Twitter and other social media



Yea Kermlin has been trying to Run the Long Con but Half the world was in denial


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## Coto (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I doubt that very much, but the thousands of volunteers will forever be remembered as heroes, as they should be. I’m simply pointing out a factor that nobody seems to account for - right now the lines between civilian and enemy combatant are blurred in Ukraine, and that’s part of the reason why Russian troops are getting swatted like flies. The second reason is that they expected to be in and out, so they’re grossly unprepared in terms of food and shelter. The lucky ones get to sleep in armored carriers, and they’re all looting local stores in order to obtain scraps of food. They were told the citizenry will welcome them as liberators - what they saw instead was the citizenry opening fire on them. Quite demoralising - no wonder a lot of them are deserting, in spite of overwhelmingly superior firepower. Now, whether people are comfortable with it or not, those are facts.


Yeah that, and partly because russians are disagreeing with Putin dictatorship. I've got like 6 or 7 russian sources confirming they weren't sent to destroy and conker Ukraine. You know what means in Russia to disobey the "big states". Same as China.

I know Poland stood the same war decades ago, and I can see why your country was the first to help out ukranians. As opposed to whatever mass media sources may lie about.


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## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

Coto said:


> Yeah that, and partly because russians are disagreeing with Putin dictatorship. I've got like 6 or 7 russian sources confirming they weren't sent to destroy and conker Ukraine. You know what means in Russia to disobey the "big states". Same as China.
> 
> I know Poland stood the same war decades ago, and I can see why your country was the first to help out ukranians. As opposed to whatever mass media sources may lie about.


yes never mind that St Petersburg and Moscow are seeing the biggest Protest (even after the state threaten them)

but VIDEO of Russian TROOP on the brink of deserting are rampart and all over



(remember this are not *Captured* Russian Troop .. These are Russian Troop Freely talking about current treatment

We all know the Kremlin was not provider food, Support, Logistics, equipment, intel to normal Russian Soldiers but
NEW Rumors and what this RUSSIAN soldiers are stating is that:::

Kremlin are trying to declare losing Soldier as non-milliarty so they don't have to report it as a miliarty lost.
Their commanding officer was trying to force them to sign letter that they were not part of the military and possible stated that are RETROACTIVELY doing the same to the soldiers that already died/captured or deserted .
maybe that is the Reason Kermlin is "boosting" only 500 Troops lost when Video proof is clearly showing 1000s. Kremlin kicked them out of the army..

Whatever Happens it looks like the Putin is at the end of his Ruin when 1000s of Russian family have military members  never return and denied Military payment.. they are going to start look at the Kremlin


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## Dr_Faustus (Mar 3, 2022)

Viri said:


> Can someone tell me why Russia is so damn scared of Ukraine joining NATO, when Russia can end all life on Earth if they felt like it?


Basically NATO played a role in the Cold War and helped put a restriction towards Soviet expansion plans and fuckery which Russia was happy to do at the time. NATO taking in Ukraine will put the opposing force right on Russia's doorstep, and Putin did not want that, especially since he was feeling in the mood to eventually annex more land for himself. The invasion was his way of trying to claim the land before the country can join a group that would protect their arse against this sort of situation.

Now with NATO not really being an option, they are trying to join the EU, which seems to be a likely acceptance at this point. If that happens Russia will be directly fucking with the EU at that point, and then the conflict will escalate into a potential world war. The scenario Ukraine wants is as soon as they are accepted into the EU Russia will have no logical choice but to back off as they are no longer an independent country.


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## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

And More proof Kermlin kicking out more Dead/capture/defeated troops so they don’t have to report the correct numbers 

“From now on, we were told, you have nothing to do with the Russian army, you are deserters”.


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## Viri (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s actually a phenomenon we noticed a long time ago, and something we pay close attention to. We apply specific rules to such members, there’s a sticky in this forum for a reason.
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/political-disinformation-propaganda-ops-infiltrating-gbatemp-too.593080/
> 
> Disinfo and propaganda isn’t anything new online - we’re quite familiar with bad actors and routinely remove them if they’re found to be here exclusively in bad faith.


I'm more confused as to why Chinese and Russian bots are wasting their time on a video game hacking forum. lol


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## Valwinz (Mar 3, 2022)

djpannda said:


> And More proof Kermlin kicking out more Dead/capture/defeated troops so they don’t have to report the correct numbers
> 
> “From now on, we were told, you have nothing to do with the Russian army, you are deserters”.


sure and the ghost of Kyiv just flew over my house


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## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> sure and the ghost of Kyiv just flew over my house


the way Russia is heading Im sure they will be over Moscow in no time


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## Nothereed (Mar 3, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Jesus man you just joined the site, why don't you wait a while and make more posts before becoming an unlikable asshole who spouts BS? Unless you're just a dummy account created by someone else here.


Ah I'm sorry, I should of made 5 posts elsewhere like you did, AND THEN join the political discussion to spout BS, such a big difference.


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## Dark Ronin (Mar 3, 2022)

As I said, time and history will tell. No amount of BS here will do neither harm nor good to both Ukrainian people or Russian. It's all just a windblowing and nothing more.
Time, just time. Military marches forward regardless of your and mine opinions and no one here can stop them, so just sit tight, watch and see till the end. And stop talking like there's a power behind your words cause there ain't any. You're just watchers, same as the rest of the world.


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## SG854 (Mar 3, 2022)

Viri said:


> Can someone tell me why Russia is so damn scared of Ukraine joining NATO, when Russia can end all life on Earth if they felt like it?


Imagine this, imagine if China expanded and put military base in Canada and South America like Mexico what do you think the U.S. would feel about that.

And imagine if all China gave was their word that they won't attack the U.S. we are all 21st century civil people that would never wage war. Do you think that would ease and calm the U.S. nerves.

Now imagine Nato expanding and closing in on Russia how do you think Putin would feel about that. Good U.S., the peace keeping U.S. that topples governments around the world to replace them with Pro U.S. pro west democratic governments in the name of peace.

The Cuban Missle crisis was literally just that. Russia putting nuclear weapons in Cuba close to the U.S. and saying these are just defensive measures nothing to look more into. Which created worry and conflict between Russia and U.S. And after all of this was over U.S. agreed to pull out weapons from Italy and other places, with Russia agreeing to pull out of Cuba. Putting nuclear weapons or an military base near a country your oppose to causes these conflicts.

And it would not be wise for Russia to just nuke the world if it cares about its own survival because we can just nuke Russia also.


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## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Imagine this, imagine if China expanded and put military base in Canada and South America like Mexico what do you think the U.S. would feel about that.
> 
> And imagine if all China gave was their word that they won't attack the U.S. we are all 21st century civil people that would never wage war. Do you think that would ease and calm the U.S. nerves.
> 
> ...


... you do know that has already happened starting 2012
China has several "friendly" port  around southamerica already ( warships,Ammo Cashes, and Buildings)
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine...t-why-chinas-advance-in-latin-america-matters

Putins logic... does not want Nato on Russian Borders ..so he tries to take over a country that Borders NATO ... YUP makes sense... the 'Why you hitting yourself defense""


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## Dr_Faustus (Mar 3, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> And stop talking like there's a power behind your words cause there ain't any. You're just watchers, same as the rest of the world.



Words can hold a lot of power, as they can contain information in them. Such as the fact that Russian soldiers were not informed of their actual intent in Ukraine in the first place, and some outright surrendering because they do not want to take part in this fight they were forced/drafted into. 

Also speaking of information, there is information control too, which seems to be going on quite a bit in your country at the moment. I heard they shut down some broadcast stations over there such as TV Rain and Echo of Moscow because they were not broadcasting what the Russian government wanted in the situation they prefer framing this invasion as. 

Take it from the rest of the world man, if everyone tells you that something you are doing is fucked up and you are the only one telling yourself that its all good, chances are it might be you that is wrong in your assessment of the situation. The world does not want to see another world war let alone another Cold War, and your President clearly wants to embrace those days again which I cannot blame him for since I am sure the days when he was in the KGB were fun as hell for him. No one else is finding this fun however, and they are doing their best to assure this situation ends without it escalating any further. 

Finally, if you really are a Russian resident I feel for you in your situation right now, I really do. But If I were you I would rather be worrying about myself and my resources than my nationalism beliefs and broadcasting them to an international community watching this unfold. Your currency is devaluing every moment which is just going to hurt the citizens there more and faster than it will hurt those who rule over you. Take care of yourself, gather your resources and hopefully you will see the other side of this situation unaffected by your country's isolation. 

Please, take care of and worry about yourself before you worry about needing to tell us how you think thinks are. If all is well on the other side we will all gladly talk about it or even argue about it when the wind of wars are behind us. Peace, brother.


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## pustal (Mar 3, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> So you are going to pretend not to understand. Not really the subject of the thread, so I won’t indulge you, but a prerequisite to having a polite society is to have a civil society in the first place. You coming up with examples like Somalia makes you look foolish, that’s all I have to say on the matter.
> 
> For the record, gun regulation in Switzerland is among the most lax in the entire world - ownership is almost completely unregulated. There is no license required to own arms, regardless of whether you are a citizen or a foreigner. Only acquisition is regulated via shall-issue permits, which do not apply to a wide variety of weapons. I don’t know exactly how you imagine this works, but you could take a flight to Switzerland right now and, in all likelihood, purchase a rifle without too much trouble and with no permanent residence. Citizen service is unrelated to gun control, it has to do with preparedness, if anything.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland


So, you end up agreeing with me that gun ownership bresult in society is dependant on the circumstances, like my first response. Talk about pretending not to understand.

And you have it right there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland#Regulation



> In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (art. 8 WG/LArm). Swiss citizens and foreigners with a C permit over the age of 18 who are not under a curator nor identified as being a danger for themselves or others, and who don't have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions as long as they haven't been written out can request such a permit.





> Foreign nationals who do not have a settlement permit but who are resident in Switzerland must present the competent cantonal authority with an official attestation from their home country confirming they are authorised to acquire the weapon or essential weapon component in that country in order to buy (art. 9a WG/LArm).





> The following information must be provided to the cantonal weapon bureau together with the weapon application form:
> 
> valid official identification or passport copy.
> residence address.
> ...





> The following weapons can only be acquired with a may-issue acquisition permit that can be issued for professional requirements, in particular with regard to carrying out protection duties, such as protecting persons, critical infrastructure or the transport of valuables; target shooting by shooting clubs; collecting; National defence requirements; Educational, cultural, research or historical purposes (art. 28c WG/LArm):
> 
> 
> Automatic firearms and military launching devices for ammunition, for projectiles or for missiles that have an explosive effect, and their essential or specially designed components.
> ...


So, no you could not fly out to Switzerland and just buy a gun. You'd need an authorization from your country and get a permit there -that requires  background check and evaluation - and even then you'd be limited for what you can buy.

And the you have to be able to carry it



> Conditions for obtaining a Carrying PermitEdit​There are three conditions (art. 27 § 2 WG/LArm):
> 
> 
> fulfilling the conditions for a buying permit (see section above).
> ...


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

pustal said:


> So, you end up agreeing with me that gun ownership bresult in society is dependant on the circumstances, like my first response. Talk about pretending not to understand.
> 
> And you have it right there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland#Regulation
> 
> So, no you could not fly out to Switzerland and just buy a gun. You'd need an authorization from your country and get a permit there -that requires  background check and evaluation - and even then you'd be limited for what you can buy.


I’m familiar with the regulations. The roadblocks you describe are very basic formalities that, in many cases, are less stringent than in the states. You go on being you though. As a side note, you’re referring to a carry permit, which is not the same as a shall issue permit.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 3, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ... you do know that has already happened starting 2012
> China has several "friendly" port  around southamerica already ( warships,Ammo Cashes, and Buildings)
> https://www.nationaldefensemagazine...t-why-chinas-advance-in-latin-america-matters
> 
> Putins logic... does not want Nato on Russian Borders ..so he tries to take over a country that Borders NATO ... YUP makes sense... the 'Why you hitting yourself defense""


Which is exactly why the U.S. is getting nervous about China and seething more conflict between U.S. and China. Especially if China were to go to war with Japan.

Their is a geographic milirary benefit to seizing Ukrian. There's the north European plane. It's like a funal that gets larger as it expands out into Russia. Getting wider and wider making it harder for Russia to defend if a conflict with the west were to break out.

With Nato expansion it has pushed the west closer to Russia with an narrow entry point into Russia called the suwalki gap still Russia has geography to its advatage. If Ukriane were to become pro west then this opens up a huge plain into Russia.

Russia wants to expands west to cover up as much of this open plane as possible to narrow the gap and to gain geographic defense against the west.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Russia wants to expands west to cover up as much of this open plane as possible to narrow the gap and to gain geographic defense against the west.


So.... youre stating Russia is literally doing the EXACT same thing it accusing NATO of doing.... because Russia thinks Nato is Planing to do it to stop Russia from doing it...GREAT REASONING!
lol



SG854 said:


> Which is exactly why the U.S. is getting nervous about China and seething more conflict between U.S. and China. Especially if China were to go to war with Japan.


No you implied Russia is justified in Committing Ukrianain War crimes because USA would do the same thing if China was in South American... but I have shown you that China has expanded and GUESS WHAT USA did not take over Mexico to stop China from its borders...


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 3, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Words can hold a lot of power, as they can contain information in them. Such as the fact that Russian soldiers were not informed of their actual intent in Ukraine in the first place, and some outright surrendering because they do not want to take part in this fight they were forced/drafted into.
> 
> Also speaking of information, there is information control too, which seems to be going on quite a bit in your country at the moment. I heard they shut down some broadcast stations over there such as TV Rain and Echo of Moscow because they were not broadcasting what the Russian government wanted in the situation they prefer framing this invasion as.
> 
> ...


Thanks, and I do care about my people. My feelings are far more complicated than partiotism or nationalism. But I look at it from the historical point and I do not afraid of death, regardless where and why it will catch my ass.
We're witnessing historical moments, a pure drama that was staged and planned long ago. We're at the other ends of this conflict, however I wish no harm to anyone and also against needless bloodshed. But war is a war.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 3, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Thanks, and I do care about my people. My feelings are far more complicated than partiotism or nationalism. But I look at it from the historical point and I do not afraid of death, regardless where and why it will catch my ass.
> We're witnessing historical moments, a pure drama that was staged and planned long ago. We're at the other ends of this conflict, however I wish no harm to anyone and also against needless bloodshed. But war is a war.


The entire conflict is needless, particularly not from a historical standpoint. Russia has no claim on Ukrainian land. If anyone does, the immediate descendants of the nations that used to rule over the region would be Poland, Lithuania (individually, and both collectively on the grounds of the Union of Lublin which led to the creation of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth) and Turkey (the immediate descendants of the Cossacks/the Khannates). Russia didn’t enter the picture until the partition period when they took the land by force - they never had a claim, and they still don’t. None of those states are staking any claims of territorial nature and they all recognise the sovereignty and independence of the Ukrainian state, meanwhile Putin is basing his transparent attempt at conquest on a deal between NATO and the U.S.S.R - a state that *no longer exists*.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

Yup Russian are starting that “redpill” lol

This is crazy for any one understand history
TV Rain (Last Independent Tv station in Russia ) decided to walkout because Putin is restricting all mentions of Ukraine.
And the savage part is the Black Swan ballet at the end.
 (This is important for Russian/Soviet Union history , as it’s code for *Shit about the hit the fan*, usually played during a Coup attempt, high profile death and when USSR FELL)



When this is over I don't think Russia is getting any more VETO powers.... ( I don't think any 1 country should have that power)


----------



## djpannda (Mar 3, 2022)

Belarus news

If true would p
Explain way Belarusian Vehicles are cross the border but not Troops


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 3, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Ah I'm sorry, I should of made 5 posts elsewhere like you did, AND THEN join the political discussion to spout BS, such a big difference.


Or just stop being a petty loser and actually post something with substance.


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Belarus news
> 
> If true would p
> Explain way Belarusian Vehicles are cross the border but not Troops



Propaganda


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> So.... youre stating Russia is literally doing the EXACT same thing it accusing NATO of doing.... because Russia thinks Nato is Planing to do it to stop Russia from doing it...GREAT REASONING!
> lol


I really don't understand your response to be honest. Russia wants Ukriane as it's a key defensive location for Russia. Losing that location means Russia will be venerable to attacks from the west. Russia wants to narrow the gap of entry into Russia.




djpannda said:


> No you implied Russia is justified in Committing Ukrianain War crimes because USA would do the same thing if China was in South American... but I have shown you that China has expanded and GUESS WHAT USA did not take over Mexico to stop China from its borders...


Not once did I imply Russia is justified in committing the Ukrainian war. If your read my response to you or any previous responses to others I never said they were justified and I have condemned Russia. Please don't put words into my mouth.

I'm just stating what Russia is doing and why they do it. And how they feel about this. You cannot control a person's actions, especially an entire country. So you have to be careful and look at another's perspective to not cause a conflict to happen. So knowing how they felt about this problem we have to be careful not to push their boundaries.

The west and U.S. knew how Russia felt about Nato expansion for many years. Especially since nato was created as a result of the cold war. And U.S. and Russia had issues in the past with Nuclear weapons. U.S. sees its actions as benign and peace keeping. But the rest of the world like China and Russia do not see toe to toe with us.

U.S. should have been more careful at pushing Ukraine to be more pro west. And instead push to keep Ukraine neutral so that Russia wouldn't feel threatened.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I really don't understand your response to be honest. Russia wants Ukriane as it's a key defensive location for Russia. Losing that location means Russia will be venerable to attacks from the west. Russia wants to narrow the gap of entry into Russia.


???

Did everyone forget about Estonia and Latvia? They're way closer than Ukraine are, to Moscow that is.


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

linuxares said:


> ???
> 
> Did everyone forget about Estonia and Latvia? They're way closer than Ukraine are, to Moscow that is.


Do you mean the nato members? because they are Nato and Russia would be nuts to attack them  if i understand the poster i guess this current Russian action that I don't justify is aim to make sure Ukraine never joins nato and so they can focus on defense in other places  that they do border Nato


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

linuxares said:


> ???
> 
> Did everyone forget about Estonia and Latvia? They're way closer than Ukraine are, to Moscow that is.


I did not as I mentioned in a previous post the west can enter Russia through the Suwalki Gap which it's entry point is near Estonia and Lativia. That section is narrower and easier for Russia to defend.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s actually a phenomenon we noticed a long time ago, and something we pay close attention to. We apply specific rules to such members, there’s a sticky in this forum for a reason.
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/political-disinformation-propaganda-ops-infiltrating-gbatemp-too.593080/
> 
> Disinfo and propaganda isn’t anything new online - we’re quite familiar with bad actors and routinely remove them if they’re found to be here exclusively in bad faith.


Sadly I can't be sure he's getting paid to spew that garbage, as there do seem to be far more Chinese nationalists in favor of the invasion than there are Russian citizens in favor of it.  Xi Jinping's re-education camps must be working overtime these days to drill "imperialism = good" into their minds permanently.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Ok now might be the time we need to put down Putin

Ukraine warns of disaster ‘10 times larger than Chernobyl’ as biggest nuclear plant ‘under heavy weapons fire’​

And it was live stream, you actually see Russian start attacking  and shoot at firefighter when they started to approach to put out the fire



Waiting Russia response, as the world saw it live ? Deepfake? Lol


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I really don't understand your response to be honest. Russia wants Ukriane as it's a key defensive location for Russia. Losing that location means Russia will be venerable to attacks from the west. Russia wants to narrow the gap of entry into Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is total 

 Claiming  Russias war crime, in trying to take over a sovereign Nation by force, is because Russia didn’t want it to speak with NATO (not the US) and Russias  feeling where hurt  that’s the Fragile ego of a tyrant.

“Russia should have been more careful at pushing Ukraine to be more pro Russian. And instead push to keep Ukraine neutral so that NATO wouldn't feel threatened.”
See how that fit soo perfectly,
means that excuse will land Putin in “The Hague”


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> That is total
> 
> Claiming  Russias war crime, in trying to take over a sovereign Nation by force, is because Russia didn’t want it to speak with NATO (not the US) and Russias  feeling where hurt  that’s the Fragile ego of a tyrant.
> 
> ...


Again I don't really understand your angle. Russia does not care. They will defend themselves at whatever cost. Putin does not care if he kills innocents if it means to defend his country. 

And you better be sure we have to care about how Putin feels about this when they have access to nuclear weapons. Theres a reason why Biden and the West does not want to send military aid to Ukriane to not start a nuclear war. 

You can't treat this like some online troll where you say, "did I hurt your poor little feelings, u mad bro" as a taunt. And the troll you are saying this to can't do nothing but kick and scream behind a computer screen doing nothing to you, which is why these taunts are effective because they can't do anything to you. Putin has a military army and does not give a fuck and will kill you. We are seeing this right now innocent Ukrainians are dying.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Again I don't really understand your angle. Russia does not care. They will defend themselves at whatever cost. Putin does not care if he kills innocents if it means to defend his country.
> 
> And you better be sure we have to care about how Putin feels about this when they have access to nuclear weapons. Theres a reason why Biden and the West does not want to send military aid to Ukriane to not start a nuclear war.
> 
> You can't treat this like some online troll where you say, "did I hurt your poor little feelings, u mad bro" as a taunt. And the troll you are saying this to can't do nothing but kick and scream behind a computer screen doing nothing to you, which is why these taunts are effective because they can't do anything to you. Putin has a military army and does not give a fuck and will kill you. We are seeing this right now innocent Ukrainians are dying.


..soo excuses and Bowing to a mad man ?  With people like you no wonder Putins stayed in power so long.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Putin does not care if he kills innocents if it means to defend his country.


You've got that half right, Putin has no qualms over killing innocents, but he also has no qualms over killing his own countrymen, either.  Matter of fact, that's how he seized power to begin with, by staging a false flag attack that killed Russian citizens.  Everybody is expendable to a dictator.


----------



## pustal (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I really don't understand your response to be honest. Russia wants Ukriane as it's a key defensive location for Russia. Losing that location means Russia will be venerable to attacks from the west. Russia wants to narrow the gap of entry into Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The US didn't push Ukraine. Ukraine pushed Ukraine to join the democratic world and we and Putin should respect that.

NATO should not have been disbanded because of others' feelings. NATO is a military security union. And NATO became evermore needed with the constant Russian agressions. The rise of China and the nuclearization of other dictatorships makes it so as well.

They feel threatened? Good, that's what stops then from waging direct war with NATO. That's the point.
_______________________________________________
Kasparov weighted in on the matter:



I disagree on going directly into warfare with Russia, but he does have a point: the cost of toppling a dictator goes up with time


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Again I don't really understand your angle. Russia does not care. They will defend themselves at whatever cost. Putin does not care if he kills innocents if it means to defend his country.
> 
> And you better be sure we have to care about how Putin feels about this when they have access to nuclear weapons. Theres a reason why Biden and the West does not want to send military aid to Ukriane to not start a nuclear war.
> 
> You can't treat this like some online troll where you say, "did I hurt your poor little feelings, u mad bro" as a taunt. And the troll you are saying this to can't do nothing but kick and scream behind a computer screen doing nothing to you, which is why these taunts are effective because they can't do anything to you. Putin has a military army and does not give a fuck and will kill you. We are seeing this right now innocent Ukrainians are dying.


Throughout this invasion it’s been noted that Russian equipment is significantly more out-of-date than initially believed, which confirms the suspicions I’ve had for many years now. Russia is a giant on clay legs with a small GDP - they have a couple high-tech vehicles and weapons that only serve the purpose of being show pieces, the rest of their military operates on crappy hand-me-downs from a bygone era. A paint job does not an armor make. They’re also severely underfunded, and corners are cut wherever it’s possible in order to amass quantity instead of quality. Their latest convoy was stalled for a whole day or two because of their shitty Made in China (not a pun) tires blowing up on them. Their equipment is, simply put, sub-standard - if NATO wanted to roll on them, they would, and it’d be a relatively short conflict. Even Russia’s nuclear capability wouldn’t help them much - there’s plenty of pre-existing anti-missile capability that’d likely neutralise their outdated delivery systems without causing much harm, although admittedly, MAD is probably one of the few reasons why the west even has diplomatic relations with Russia (the second being their large stores of fossil fuels and energy supply). Russian generals should hold on to those nukes for their dear life because they can’t seem to win a war against fish in a barrel, and they have a supposed massive advantage just based on numbers.

Moreover, they’re using outdated tactics like leaving their MBT’s out in the open without cover, leading to massive losses - tank platforms are not intended to operate as lone wolves, they’re vulnerable without support. The “strategy” they seem to be applying in Ukraine is to throw as much meat at the enemy as possible, which is what they did during WWII - their advantage is having a whole lot of soldiers they can drop into the conflict zone and sacrifice, by the thousands.

I wouldn’t be particularly worried about Russia if a hypothetical conflict were to erupt, and I don’t understand why the public is. Even military experts are shocked at how poorly this invasion is going - if the Russian military was half as good as they advertise it to be, it would’ve taken Kiev by now. Long story short, they just don’t have the funding to compete, and that’s been the case for a while. The Russian military is like a rich guy in an expensive bathrobe - you’d expect it to be ripped, but it turns out that the fabric is there to cover wrinkles and a beer gut.

To summarise, they’re getting (rightfully) pummelled on the ground because they’re fighting this war in a boneheaded way using outdated strategy and equipment, they have a shitty casus belli that nobody’s buying, they’re completely unprepared in terms of basic supplies like food or fuel (all of which they’re forced to actively loot) and they’re fighting against armed citizenry - a force a military is simply not equipped to fight. It’s been over a week - you’d expect all military forces to be neutralised by now, defensive perimeter to be set up and special forces stepping in to clear out insurgents. That’s not what’s happening - the Russians are still shelling the place because whenever they try to advance, they’re getting whooped and take heavy losses, too heavy to be justifiable for a supposedly modern military. This invasion is *embarrassing*.

EDIT: I’m just going to add a little factoid to solidify the point I’m making - I listened to a recording today. It was radio communications between a tanker from Georgia and a Russian military vessel. They were asking the Georgian vessel for fuel, got laughed at and remained stranded at sea. Imagine that - a military fucking warship having to ask civilian vessels for a top-up because *they ran out of fuel*. This invasion must’ve been planned by Pee-Wee Herman - it’s unexplainable to me how billions of dollars’ worth of ordinance just “runs out of fuel” in the middle of a military operation.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

“Russia Vows Prosecution of Foreign Fighters After 16K Join Ukraine”​
Someone’s mad the world is clamoring for his head


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Throughout this invasion it’s been noted that Russian equipment is significantly more out-of-date than initially believed, which confirms the suspicions I’ve had for many years now. Russia is a giant on clay legs with a small GDP - they have a couple high-tech vehicles and weapons that only serve the purpose of being show pieces, the rest of their military operates on crappy hand-me-downs from a bygone era. A paint job does not an armor make. They’re also severely underfunded, and corners are cut wherever it’s possible in order to amass quantity instead of quality. Their latest convoy was stalled for a whole day or two because of their shitty Made in China (not a pun) tires blowing up on them. Their equipment is, simply put, sub-standard - if NATO wanted to roll on them, they would, and it’d be a relatively short conflict. Even Russia’s nuclear capability wouldn’t help them much - there’s plenty of pre-existing anti-missile capability that’d likely neutralise their outdated delivery systems without causing much harm, although admittedly, MAD is probably one of the few reasons why the west even has diplomatic relations with Russia (the second being their large stores of fossil fuels and energy supply). Russian generals should hold on to those nukes for their dear life because they can’t seem to win a war against fish in a barrel, and they have a supposed massive advantage just based on numbers.
> 
> Moreover, they’re using outdated tactics like leaving their MBT’s out in the open without cover, leading to massive losses - tank platforms are not intended to operate as lone wolves, they’re vulnerable without support. The “strategy” they seem to be applying in Ukraine is to throw as much meat at the enemy as possible, which is what they did during WWII - their advantage is having a whole lot of soldiers they can drop into the conflict zone and sacrifice, by the thousands.
> 
> ...


Yup even if/when Russia take Ukraine not only is the Ukrainian insurgence going to hundred years  of guerilla warfare that will devastate Russia but more importantly

Russia has shown its military hand and  may I say disappointing and embarrassing… with 1000s dead,hundreds of Troops awol and 1000s of military vehicles abandoned and being taken over by Ukrainian tiktokers for views… Russia just became then world laughing stock


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Yup even if/when Russia take Ukraine not only is the Ukrainian insurgence going to hundred years  of guerilla warfare that will devastate Russia but more importantly
> 
> Russia has shown its military hand and  may I say disappointing and embarrassing… will 1000s dead hundreds of Troops awol and 1000s of military vehicles abandoned and being taken over by Ukrainian tiktokers for views… Russia just became then world laughing stock


It’s certainly been a while since we’ve seen a more underwhelming advance of a military force. They have a huge numbers advantage and, with persistence, they’re likely to take the capitol eventually, but the cost at which they’re doing it is making them look like clowns. There’s no saving face from this - at this point they’re not even picking up their own fallen since it’d carry the risk of more casualties. Thoroughly demoralising.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s certainly been a while since we’ve seen a more underwhelming advance of a military force. They have a huge numbers advantage and, with persistence, they’re likely to take the capitol eventually, but the cost at which they’re doing it is making them look like clowns. There’s no saving face from this - at this point they’re not even picking up their own fallen since it’d carry the risk of more casualties. Thoroughly demoralising.


A video today shows the Russia troop update they are not claiming the bodies .large numbers of Russia are on the point of mutany
.but the dead is  definitely a tactic to keep casualties low … that and retroactive kicking out the dead and deserters so they don’t get counted either

It’s getting soo bad, China is just backing up slowing.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s certainly been a while since we’ve seen a more underwhelming advance of a military force. They have a huge numbers advantage and, with persistence, they’re likely to take the capitol eventually, but the cost at which they’re doing it is making them look like clowns. There’s no saving face from this - at this point they’re not even picking up their own fallen since it’d carry the risk of more casualties. Thoroughly demoralising.


Well you have to remember morale was pretty much at zero for a lot of Russian troops to begin with, as they surely had friends and/or family in Ukraine.  Others may have bought into the propaganda at the start, but quickly realized that they were lied to by the Kremlin once they actually entered Ukraine and started getting orders to target civilians.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 4, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Or just stop being a petty loser and actually post something with substance.


Calls a person they don't know a looser, and in the same phrase, asks for a substantive argument.
last time I checked, calling someone a looser and not explaining why their argument "is BS" is a bs argument or, "not a substantive argument" wouldn't you agree.
Now I'm also not exactly sure how attacking me works within the thread here but okay


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 4, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> He joined the site and his first post was to respond to me and someone else, so he was asking for it at that point, I just responded back since he wanted to target me first as soon as they joined.


so... responding to people and explaining why their point may or may not be bs is "asking for it"
...
checks out to me


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..soo excuses and Bowing to a mad man ?  With people like you no wonder Putins stayed in power so long.


No we shouldn't bow to Putin. That's not what I'm saying. 

If putin decides to want to conquer other nations or to make threats to do what he says or he'll attack us if we don't comply, I'm not saying we should bow down. We should never bow down on these occasions. 

What I'm saying is not the same as that. What I'm talking about is a bit more nuanced. A specific case. You can say Russians military is a joke but that's not going to bring back those dead Ukranians. What I'm talking about is a way to prevent this from happening to begin with, prevent innocent Ukranians from dying. That is not the same as bowing down to Russia. If Russia were to attack Nato then yes we should engage and we should not listen to Russias demands.

Putin would not stay in power for long if there were people like me because I do not apply what I say to every situation, only on certain scenarios. Weighing the pros and cons of each scenario and choosing the best response for that scenario. 

There is too much of a lose if Russia were to try to conquer the U.S. for example so of course I would not apply what I said in this situation and bow down to Russia that would be stupid. And why would you insist that i'm that stupid or that of a push over. People are not simple minded and are adaptable & complex. Stop treating people like they're idiots.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Throughout this invasion it’s been noted that Russian equipment is significantly more out-of-date than initially believed, which confirms the suspicions I’ve had for many years now. Russia is a giant on clay legs with a small GDP - they have a couple high-tech vehicles and weapons that only serve the purpose of being show pieces, the rest of their military operates on crappy hand-me-downs from a bygone era. A paint job does not an armor make. They’re also severely underfunded, and corners are cut wherever it’s possible in order to amass quantity instead of quality. Their latest convoy was stalled for a whole day or two because of their shitty Made in China (not a pun) tires blowing up on them. Their equipment is, simply put, sub-standard - if NATO wanted to roll on them, they would, and it’d be a relatively short conflict. Even Russia’s nuclear capability wouldn’t help them much - there’s plenty of pre-existing anti-missile capability that’d likely neutralise their outdated delivery systems without causing much harm, although admittedly, MAD is probably one of the few reasons why the west even has diplomatic relations with Russia (the second being their large stores of fossil fuels and energy supply). Russian generals should hold on to those nukes for their dear life because they can’t seem to win a war against fish in a barrel, and they have a supposed massive advantage just based on numbers.
> 
> Moreover, they’re using outdated tactics like leaving their MBT’s out in the open without cover, leading to massive losses - tank platforms are not intended to operate as lone wolves, they’re vulnerable without support. The “strategy” they seem to be applying in Ukraine is to throw as much meat at the enemy as possible, which is what they did during WWII - their advantage is having a whole lot of soldiers they can drop into the conflict zone and sacrifice, by the thousands.
> 
> ...


Russia's army is a joke. My impression is that it was a military strategy. Putin sending the weak disposable soldiers to feel for the area, to soften it a bit before he sends the actual good military to conquer. That long convoy. 

But you're likely right. It's day what now 9? The longer he's there the less likely the west will take putins army seriously.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

pustal said:


> The US didn't push Ukraine. Ukraine pushed Ukraine to join the democratic world and we and Putin should respect that.
> 
> NATO should not have been disbanded because of others' feelings. NATO is a military security union. And NATO became evermore needed with the constant Russian agressions. The rise of China and the nuclearization of other dictatorships makes it so as well.
> 
> ...



Not saying Nato should disband. 

What you said is what putin fears. There was someone in this thread that said Nato is not anti Russian. But the west and people pushing the west in the name of democracy, to get rid of putin, get rid of that dictator and replace him with a pro west elect. 

This is what the U.S. has been doing for years and years. Toppling governments and replace them with democratic elects. Whether or not the U.S. is right to do this has caused debate.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 4, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> so... responding to people and explaining why their point may or may not be bs is "asking for it"
> ...
> checks out to me


Whatever you say loser, we're done here.

Also, I find it funny how some people here think there are Russian bots or paid people to stick up for Russia here. I mean sure, I can see that on twitter, but don't yourself in high regards now GBATemp lol


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Russia's army is a joke. My impression is that it was a military strategy. Putin sending the weak disposable soldiers to feel for the area, to soften it a bit before he sends the actual good military to conquer. That long convoy.
> 
> But you're likely right. It's day what now 9? The longer he's there the less likely the west will take putins army seriously.


You say that, but they did send them along with their T-90MS’, which is Russia’s most modern tank platform. They only have a couple hundred of them and guess what? Those idiots are abandoning them in the field.  Ukraine is going to make mint selling scrap once this blows over.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 4, 2022)

I still think Russia is gonna take over Ukraine in the end, and who knows, maybe more places as well. I would be very surprised if they do fail in the end. Surprised, but not at all distraught, since him failing would be the best possible outcome at this point and would deliver a massive blow to our enemies.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 4, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I still think Russia is gonna take over Ukraine in the end, and who knows, maybe more places as well.


I'm not so sure it's inevitable any more, 80K men ready to fight just arrived in Ukraine today, mostly Ukrainian nationals going back home, but 16K of them being volunteers from other countries around the globe.

Regardless, even if Russia was able to capture all major Ukrianian cities, maintaining control of them would be a different matter entirely.  Asymmetrical guerilla warfare is a very hard to beat tactic, and Ukrainians have already ousted one Putin puppet government in the past.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I would be very surprised if they do fail in the end.


In terms of what Putin was trying to gain here, the invasion has already been a colossal failure.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2022)

Viri said:


> Can someone tell me why Russia is so damn scared of Ukraine joining NATO, when Russia can end all life on Earth if they felt like it?


Same reason why USA is afraid of Russian in Cuba.
A shorter distance between rockets and your country means less reaction time. This increases trigger nervousness and is therefore dangerous for the whole world.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ...because USA would do the same thing if China was in South American... but I have shown you that China has expanded and GUESS WHAT USA did not take over Mexico to stop China from its borders...


Can you show me Chinese soldiers or missiles in Mexico?
Your link mentions Mexico only once: "and significant ownership stakes in lithium mines in each of the hemisphere’s four countries endowed with it: Chile, Argentina, Bolivia and Mexico."


----------



## pustal (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Not saying Nato should disband.
> 
> What you said is what putin fears. There was someone in this thread that said Nato is not anti Russian. But the west and people pushing the west in the name of democracy, to get rid of putin, get rid of that dictator and replace him with a pro west elect.
> 
> This is what the U.S. has been doing for years and years. Toppling governments and replace them with democratic elects. Whether or not the U.S. is right to do this has caused debate.




Ehhhh. Doing the opposite too: Iran (Pahlavi), Chile (Pinochet), Guatemala (Carlos Castillo), Argentina (Peron), Indonesia (Suharto), Congo (Selo)...

The CIA even killed one of our democratically ellect Prime Minister, Sá Carneiro, in 1980 with a bomb placed in his airplane.

Their thankfully support of new democracies has been fairly recent, post USSR. But that's the difference: modern Russia still supports (puppet) dictators, modern USA no.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Whatever you say loser, we're done here.
> 
> Also, I find it funny how some people here think there are Russian bots or paid people to stick up for Russia here. I mean sure, I can see that on twitter, but don't yourself in high regards now GBATemp lol



Uhh, don't brake it from us, again, take it from Costello.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

pustal said:


> Ehhhh. Doing the opposite too: Iran (Pahlavi), Chile (Pinochet), Guatemala (Carlos Castillo), Argentina (Peron), Indonesia (Suharto), Congo (Selo)...
> 
> The CIA even killed one of our democratically ellect Prime Minister, Sá Carneiro, in 1980 with a bomb placed in his airplane.
> 
> ...


Hey, don’t knock it until you try it. I can think of a couple of world leaders who could have a horrible accident, in Minecraft. I have a feeling the world would be better off, too.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Same reason why USA is afraid of Russian in Cuba.
> A shorter distance between rockets and your country means less reaction time. This increases trigger nervousness and is therefore dangerous for the whole world.


The reason why the U.S. didn’t want the U.S.S.R anywhere near Cuba is because they planned on building nuclear silos there - the U.S. was never under any threat of a land invasion. It was called the “Cuban missile crisis” for a reason. Nobody’s building nuclear launch sites in Ukraine, that’s asinine. I don’t understand why nobody will say it out loud - Russia invaded Ukraine because their pipelines go straight through it, and a hostile government in Ukraine threatens the bottom line of Russia’s key industries. Ukraine is fully empowered to “close the tap” whenever they please, and Putin isn’t keen on being at the mercy of a country that, in his mind, shouldn’t even exist. This has nothing to do with his idiotic theory that Ukraine is some kind of Kruschev’s invention to “solidify the U.S.S.R” that has never existed before, or whatever alternative history he’s peddling today. It doesn’t even have a lot to do with NATO - NATO is thoroughly uninterested in going to war with Russia, even though they now have a justification. Russia’s army is actively attacking a nuclear power plant with heavy ordinance - for all intents and purposes it is reasonable and justifiable for other world powers to step in, if only to prevent another ecological disaster. He’s playing fast and loose, and it’s not paying off so far.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The reason why the U.S. didn’t want the U.S.S.R anywhere near Cuba is because they planned on building nuclear silos there - the U.S. was never under any threat of a land invasion. It was called the “Cuban missile crisis” for a reason. Nobody’s building nuclear launch sites in Ukraine, that’s asinine.


As far as I know US wasn´t even aware of the nukes but could not accept Russian missiles near its territory. Even the potential is enough and Russia feels the same way.


----------



## Flame (Mar 4, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As far as I know US wasn´t even aware of the nukes but could not accept Russian missiles near its territory. Even the potential is enough and Russia feels the same way.



so according you USA should invade Cuba next just in case and war is always okay?






all the against and abstention countries are either evil or failed states.


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 4, 2022)

Flame said:


> so according you USA should invade Cuba next just in case and war is always okay?


USA do tried that in 1961 and was defeated.

The way the thing unfolded in Cuba is more comparable with the way Russia influenced the Donbas situation until last year (Soldiers disguised as revolutionaries, logistical support, intelligence support, air and naval aid). But still none can deny that USA tried an invasion.

The question is if it is right, and no, it is not. It was wrong in 1961 and it still is wrong in 2022. Big powers like Russia and USA are using force against the smaller nations without any repercussion for too many years now.


----------



## Flame (Mar 4, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> USA do tried that in 1961 and was defeated.
> 
> The way the thing unfolded in Cuba is more comparable with the way Russia influenced the Donbas situation until last year (Soldiers disguised as revolutionaries, logistical support, intelligence support, air and naval aid). But still none can deny that USA tried an invasion.
> 
> The question is if it is right, and no, it is not. It was wrong in 1961 and it still is wrong in 2022. Big powers like Russia and USA are using force against the smaller nations without any repercussion for too many years now.



Exactly my point. War is never the answer. maybe if Russia put the same effort into they schools, technology and science they do good for its own people. but instead the Russian rich and powerful want its own people to stay weak and poor so they can control them like puppets.


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

I find it funny how people that don't know anything want NATO to put a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
I'm sure NATO pilots shooting Russian ones will not lead to full-scale war.

Ukraine should be supported with aid and stuff but they are not worth a thermonuclear war over especially since they are not even a NATO member


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Hey, don’t knock it until you try it. I can think of a couple of world leaders who could have a horrible accident, in Minecraft. I have a feeling the world would be better off, too.
> The reason why the U.S. didn’t want the U.S.S.R anywhere near Cuba is because they planned on building nuclear silos there - the U.S. was never under any threat of a land invasion. It was called the “Cuban missile crisis” for a reason. Nobody’s building nuclear launch sites in Ukraine, that’s asinine. I don’t understand why nobody will say it out loud - Russia invaded Ukraine because their pipelines go straight through it, and a hostile government in Ukraine threatens the bottom line of Russia’s key industries. Ukraine is fully empowered to “close the tap” whenever they please, and Putin isn’t keen on being at the mercy of a country that, in his mind, shouldn’t even exist. This has nothing to do with his idiotic theory that Ukraine is some kind of Kruschev’s invention to “solidify the U.S.S.R” that has never existed before, or whatever alternative history he’s peddling today. It doesn’t even have a lot to do with NATO - NATO is thoroughly uninterested in going to war with Russia, even though they now have a justification. Russia’s army is actively attacking a nuclear power plant with heavy ordinance - for all intents and purposes it is reasonable and justifiable for other world powers to step in, if only to prevent another ecological disaster. He’s playing fast and loose, and it’s not paying off so far.


I did mention that old and gas was another reason for Russia to invade Ukraine in a previous post. Russia's economy is mostly based on gas around 40%. And their military is heavily funded by gas money. They will take a big hit if something were to happen to that. They already scared off Mobil and other gas companies from Ukraine a while back.



Valwinz said:


> I find it funny how people that don't know anything want NATO to put a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
> I'm sure NATO pilots shooting Russian ones will not lead to full-scale war.
> 
> Ukraine should be supported with aid and stuff but they are not worth a thermonuclear war over especially since they are not even a NATO member


There is ways you can enforce no fly zone through mobile focused beam emp's. Knock out the planes electronics but the pilot still has the ability to land safely or eject safely. This can be seen as non confrontational or lethal force. The thing is how to get this into ukriane.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> I find it funny how people that don't know anything want NATO to put a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
> I'm sure NATO pilots shooting Russian ones will not lead to full-scale war.
> 
> Ukraine should be supported with aid and stuff but they are not worth a thermonuclear war over especially since they are not even a NATO member


Funny how you justify Ukraine being invaded because it wants to become NATO.

but not stating that NATO shouldn’t help Ukraine Because it’s not NATO..

Man You got to work harder with the value of those Rubles ..113 today ouch…  I remember it was 20s before Putin.

By your logical NATO is legally justified to gobble any little country near Russia as a preventative measure
Oh wait NATO  does NOT HAVE TO COMMIT War crimes as Finland Sweden, Georgia, Moldavia are in Voluntarily talk with the EU and NATO.


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 4, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> I find it funny how people that don't know anything want NATO to put a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
> I'm sure NATO pilots shooting Russian ones will not lead to full-scale war.
> 
> Ukraine should be supported with aid and stuff but they are not worth a thermonuclear war over especially since they are not even a NATO member


If NATO shot down a Russian plane, than it is game over. RIP planet earth.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As far as I know US wasn´t even aware of the nukes but could not accept Russian missiles near its territory. Even the potential is enough and Russia feels the same way.


U.S. was aware of nukes. They had pictures from the sky of Russia building nuclear missiles in Cuba even though they lied about that.

Russia probably could care less about the saftey of Cuba after the bay of pigs failed attempt. Russia just wanted nuclear weapons closer to the U.S. since the U.S. already had nuclear weapons in Italy and places near there.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> If NATO shot down a Russian plane, than it is game over. RIP planet earth.


Mobile Focsed beam EMP's. Can be used without needing to shoot down a plane or use violence. A way to enforce no fly zone without it appearing as an act of aggression.


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 4, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Mobile Focsed beam EMP's. Can be used without needing to shoot down a plane or use violence. A way to enforce no fly zone without it appearing as an act of aggression.


Hope they do that route, really really hope so.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 4, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Hope they do that route, really really hope so.


The U.S. first needs to get that equipment into Ukraine.


----------



## smf (Mar 4, 2022)

Xzi said:


> In terms of what Putin was trying to gain here, the invasion has already been a colossal failure.


Yeah. He can front it out but not only has he shot himself in the foot, he now has the gun aimed at his other foot and is threatening to shoot that too.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Same reason why USA is afraid of Russian in Cuba.
> A shorter distance between rockets and your country means less reaction time. This increases trigger nervousness and is therefore dangerous for the whole world.



What is more dangerous for the whole world is life presidents who are able to brain wash the population. It's bad for Russia, it's bad for North Korea. I don't hate communism & I think capitalism is flawed, but if your country requires that much mind control of the population to succeed then you're doing it wrong.


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

Good news
 NATO rejects calls for no-fly zone over Ukraine

Thank god


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## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Good news
> NATO rejects calls for no-fly zone over Ukraine
> 
> Thank god


oh I guess you missed my message and not purposely ignored it because if make you look a Tool
"Funny how you justify Ukraine being invaded because it wants to become NATO.

but not stating that NATO shouldn’t help Ukraine Because it’s not NATO..

Man You got to work harder with the value of those Rubles ..113 today ouch… I remember it was 20s before Putin.

By your logical NATO is legally justified to gobble any little country near Russia as a preventative measure
Oh wait NATO does NOT HAVE TO COMMIT War crimes as Finland Sweden, Georgia, Moldavia are in Voluntarily talk with the EU and NATO."


----------



## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> oh I guess you missed my message and not purposely ignored it because if make you look a Tool
> "Funny how you justify Ukraine being invaded because it wants to become NATO.
> 
> but not stating that NATO shouldn’t help Ukraine Because it’s not NATO..
> ...


I mean they have like the Baltic members of NATO? 

NATO is for protecting its members  if Russian attacks a NATO member im all for protecting them 

If Nato wants to send aid to some nations that are fine too, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has not and can't be justified.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 4, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Hope they do that route, really really hope so.


The technology he is speaking of is nowhere near as ready or as directly capable as people think they are. An Electromagnetic Pulse is typically directionless, and usually works on area of effect (AOE) deployments. They are better used in taking out communication systems and cities than moving vehicles unless they can time the AOE to work within the moment its in range. That also said reaching the AOE needed to take down a plane would take out literally everything else on the battlefield for a long ass range which while some military tech is shielded against I cannot say without certainty everything will be shielded against it for both sides and the civilians involved. 

The other option is to deploy an EMP in the air, but that would still rely more on AOE and the fact that it would still be considered a projectile. Nuclear weapons believe it or not can also be used in the same way if they are detonated in the atmosphere far away enough, it will not cause any kind of casualties but it will knock out most/all electronics in the area where it would have landed. 

Finally, no matter how you slice it this could still be considered an act of aggression for Russia to move against. It does not matter if you are shooting down planes with anti-aircraft missiles or shining a laser at them. If its anyone but Ukraine its going to be seen as an act of war against another country. The most we can do is just supply Ukraine with the means to defend themselves until the situation goes too far out of control to the point where other forces will have no choice but to step in.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As far as I know US wasn´t even aware of the nukes but could not accept Russian missiles near its territory. Even the potential is enough and Russia feels the same way.


The U.S. was very much aware of the missiles, down to their exact location and number thanks to spy plane pictures. That’s the whole reason behind forming EXCOMM - they knew what was going on. We narrowly avoided disaster considering the first piece of advice Kennedy received was tactical strikes on Cuban soil - the president opted for a more diplomatic approach and formed a naval quarantine zone, which was really a blockade in everything but the name, intercepting any offensive weaponry heading in the direction of Cuba. The blockade was only lifted once all Russian offensive capability was removed from the island. In exchange, the U.S. government removed their sites from Turkey and Italy, and everyone walked away from the table happy, showcasing Kennedy’s excellent diplomatic skills and saving us from what could’ve been a nuclear exchange on both fronts. Sounds like a pretty nice guy to me - no wonder he got assassinated.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The U.S. was very much aware of the missiles, down to their exact location and number thanks to spy plane pictures. That’s the whole reason behind forming EXCOMM - they knew what was going on. We narrowly avoided disaster considering the first piece of advice Kennedy received was tactical strikes on Cuban soil - the president opted for a more diplomatic approach and formed a naval quarantine zone, which was really a blockade in everything but the name, intercepting any offensive weaponry heading in the direction of Cuba. The blockade was only lifted once all Russian offensive capability was removed from Cuba. In exchange, the U.S. government removed their sites from Turkey and Italy, and everyone walked away from the table happy, showcasing Kennedy’s excellent diplomatic skills and saving us from what could’ve been a nuclear exchange on both fronts. Sounds like a pretty nice guy to me - no wonder he got assassinated.


I feel dirty being on the same political side with fox on this.......  AHHH nothing brings the World together like the Common Hatred of Putin


----------



## Coto (Mar 4, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The U.S. was very much aware of the missiles, down to their exact location and number thanks to spy plane pictures. That’s the whole reason behind forming EXCOMM - they knew what was going on. We narrowly avoided disaster considering the first piece of advice Kennedy received was tactical strikes on Cuban soil - the president opted for a more diplomatic approach and formed a naval quarantine zone, which was really a blockade in everything but the name, intercepting any offensive weaponry heading in the direction of Cuba. The blockade was only lifted once all Russian offensive capability was removed from Cuba. In exchange, the U.S. government removed their sites from Turkey and Italy, and everyone walked away from the table happy, showcasing Kennedy’s excellent diplomatic skills and saving us from what could’ve been a nuclear exchange on both fronts. Sounds like a pretty nice guy to me - no wonder he got assassinated.


Gotta love how real truth comes to light once again every decades. How the US CIA built a Democratic Party in Chile, and original plans where Chile would become Socialist as 'democracy would slowly end' and Democracia Cristiana, PPD political parties had to execute these plans at all costs.

Then these two chilean Kennedys (because they were backed originally by these Democratic parties), would instead, opt for freedom and sovereingty to people, by supporting politically Anti Communist Armed Forces, and laws where Chile would be protected from invasion (at that era, 1971 coming from United Nations):

-Edmundo Pérez Zujovic

-Jaime Guzmán

And were executed by the Communist chilean leader, Salvador Allende and the cuban/soviet intelligence at that time. Same friends as today's fake chilean coup while destroying our anti Communist Armed Forces.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I feel dirty being on the same political side with fox on this.......  AHHH nothing brings the World together like the Common Hatred of Putin


I don’t like Democrats, but Kennedy was alright. Smart man, that’s dangerous in the world of politics, especially during the Cold War.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2022)

Of course Kennedy knew about the missiles before the resolution. I mean that they complained even before knowing about them. Shorter distance means more trigger-nervousness (due to reduced time till impact): bad for the world.


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## Coto (Mar 4, 2022)

Forgot to mention, thanks to those chilean Kennedys we got these 49~ years of freedom, and all people from Latin America has/had found Chile to be some sort of Oasis because there's meat, inflation was (before 2019) barely 5%~ and we had a proper Constitution. 

Needless to say, even people who voted after the new Communist constitution back then in 2019, supported by United Nations, are fleeing the country now.


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## lokomelo (Mar 4, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Nuclear weapons believe it or not can also be used in the same way if they are detonated in the atmosphere far away enough, it will not cause any kind of casualties but it will knock out most/all electronics in the area where it would have landed.


No, please no. I understand that scientifically may be possible, but if a nuclear missile fly over Ukraine, nobody on the other side will think a split second before pushing the button.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Man You got to work harder with the value of those Rubles ..113 today ouch…  I remember it was 20s before Putin.


The Russian government was absolutely stupid to bank on foreign assets. However, the Russian economy might not be hit as hard by the devaluation as countries like Germany. Besides having cell phones, a somewhat significant part of the population lives pretty excluded in rural areas (often without plumbing or highways). A superior way to live in the event of a global crisis.

If the Russian military is successful, they will probably use their presence as a bargaining chip to unfreeze their assets: give the money back or we stay.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 4, 2022)

Flame said:


> Exactly my point. War is never the answer. maybe if Russia put the same effort into they schools, technology and science they do good for its own people. but instead the Russian rich and powerful want its own people to stay weak and poor so they can control them like puppets.


Mmmmm, I wouldn't say that now, war is never the answer. It shouldn't be, but sometimes it is, like when a certain german dictator decided to start a second world war? Would some agree war against him was the answer?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The Russian government was absolutely stupid to bank on foreign assets. However, the Russian economy might not be hit as hard by the devaluation as countries like Germany. Besides having cell phones, a somewhat significant part of the population lives pretty excluded in rural areas (often without plumbing or highways). A superior way to live in the event of a global crisis.
> 
> If the Russian military is successful, they will probably use their presence as a bargaining chip to unfreeze their assets: give the money back or we stay.


doubt that... You really Believe EU is going to go "ok Russia you get KYIV.. you win... we can restart... "
The fact that Russia has refused to open their Stock Market to "try" to avoid it completely crashing is telling


 and the FACT Russia oligarchs are desperately trying to hold the Ruble's price until they convert their "personal finance" in Gold and then allow it to Free fall will be the Death Nail for non Governmental entries and shows Putins circles are only thinking of themselves not the Russian public.
https://www.reuters.com/business/fi...-purchases-domestic-market-monday-2022-02-27/

No, whats going to happen  if Russia does not back off, There will be a new Iron Curtain, and the world (-china) will makeRussia person non grata.  Imagine North Korea internal problems problems x 1000.... the only different is Most Russian already have taste Western lifestyle and will start questioning why 1000s are dying of hunger sickness (internet has change  the ability to keep people in the dark


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## lokomelo (Mar 4, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Mmmmm, I wouldn't say that now, war is never the answer. It shouldn't be, but sometimes it is, like when a certain german dictator decided to start a second world war? Would some agree war against him was the answer?


Looking in retrospect (and that's unfair, because decisions can't be made in retrospect). The conflicts that lead to the first world war could be solved without a total war, that way I believe, Germany would never have political environment for the rise of the Austrian Painter.


----------



## Flame (Mar 4, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Mmmmm, I wouldn't say that now, war is never the answer. It shouldn't be, but sometimes it is, like when a certain german dictator decided to start a second world war? Would some agree war against him was the answer?



Nnnnnnn, what the fuck you on?

which country of allies attacked Nazi first? they only defended themselves (the allies) or they would have been eliminated. Dont white wash the second world war. UK had no choice it was war or survival, USA only went in cause of pearl harbour.  Russian help win second world war because Nazi attacked Russia first.

so my Russian bot friend. war is *never* the answer.


people who want war. are the first people who will cry to they mum and Nintendo Switch if they are sent to one.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Lol I almost pissed myself from laughter  when Putin stated “we have no ill intentions”

This is showing how Desperate Putin is getting. But he will doubt down…




Putin: Don't impose more sanctions on us


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## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

Putin is a murderer and thug.
Zelensky is trying to bait Westerners into a nuclear war.

Give aid so they can fight against Putin but don't get involved by sending NATO troops.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 4, 2022)

Flame said:


> Nnnnnnn, what the fuck you on?
> 
> which country of allies attacked Nazi first? they only defended themselves (the allies) or they would have been eliminated. Dont white wash the second world war. UK had no choice it was war or survival, USA only went in cause of pearl harbour.  Russian help win second world war because Nazi attacked Russia first.
> 
> ...


Geez, what crawled up your vagina? I'm not a Russian bot nor do I want war either. I guess the next time a dictator rises and takes millions of lives and invades countries people should just ignore it and suck it up and let it happen. Japan did attack us first and we had to retaliate in self defense, but we went after Hitler first since he was the bigger threat at the time, then Japan. Russia invaded Ukraine, so now they have to defend themselves from them, which is kind of a war. It's two countries though, so it's more of a big conflict. I dunno the correct terminology, but yeah, chill dude, and don't assume shit about people.


----------



## Flame (Mar 4, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Geez, what crawled up your vagina? I'm not a Russian bot nor do I want war either. I guess the next time a dictator rises and takes millions of lives and invades countries people should just ignore it and suck it up and let it happen. Russia invaded Ukraine, so now they have to defend themselves from them, which is kind of a war. It's two countries though, so it's more of a big conflict. I dunno the correct terminology, but yeah, chill dude, and don't assume shit about people.



i beg you dont cry.

its funny to me that people like you and @Valwinz and many others in this section put the politicians in government. like people who have the same thoughts as Putin in western countries who support bad polices.

the chickens have come home to roost


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## djpannda (Mar 4, 2022)

Oh just banned Facebook and a huge bunch of app for saying “anti -Russian news “ 
And Russia definitely hide the dead.. Russian senator stated Russian Military reports a company of 100 men only 4 came back…


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## Valwinz (Mar 4, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Oh just banned Facebook and a huge bunch of app for saying “anti -Russian news “
> And Russia definitely hide the dead.. Russian senator stated Russian Military reports a company of 100 men only 4 came back…



Ukraine is kicking so much ass that they have this in the bag  no reason for Nato troops to get invlove


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## Flame (Mar 4, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> Putin is a murderer and thug.
> Zelensky is trying to bait Westerners into a nuclear war.
> 
> Give aid so they can fight against Putin but don't get involved by sending NATO troops.





Valwinz said:


> Ukraine is kicking so much ass that they have this in the bag  no reason for Nato troops to get invlove





Valwinz said:


> Good news
> NATO rejects calls for no-fly zone over Ukraine
> 
> Thank god





Valwinz said:


> I mean they have like the Baltic members of NATO?
> 
> NATO is for protecting its members  if Russian attacks a NATO member im all for protecting them
> 
> If Nato wants to send aid to some nations that are fine too, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has not and can't be justified.





Valwinz said:


> I find it funny how people that don't know anything want NATO to put a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
> I'm sure NATO pilots shooting Russian ones will not lead to full-scale war.
> 
> Ukraine should be supported with aid and stuff but they are not worth a thermonuclear war over especially since they are not even a NATO member



this is all your posting. no NATO zone. same thing over and over again.

is Trump a Putin puppet?


----------



## pustal (Mar 4, 2022)

Flame said:


> Nnnnnnn, what the fuck you on?
> 
> which country of allies attacked Nazi first? they only defended themselves (the allies) or they would have been eliminated. Dont white wash the second world war. UK had no choice it was war or survival, USA only went in cause of pearl harbour.  Russian help win second world war because Nazi attacked Russia first.
> 
> ...


I mean, gotta be fair to the Russians there:







Valwinz said:


> Putin is a murderer and thug.
> Zelensky is trying to bait Westerners into a nuclear war.
> 
> Give aid so they can fight against Putin but don't get involved by sending NATO troops.


Why the hell would Zelensky want a nuclear war? Zelensky wants not to die and his people not to die. A nuclear war would probably accomplish just that, if not now in the fallout future.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2022)

pustal said:


> I mean, gotta be fair to the Russians there:
> 
> View attachment 300397
> 
> Why the hell would Zelensky want a nuclear war? Zelensky wants not to die and his people not to die. A nuclear war would probably accomplish just that, if not now in the fallout future.


I don’t know if I agree with this point of view. The Soviets joined the effort after Operation Barbarossa, when Hitler foolishly decided to betray them and looked eastward rather than westward. By that time the Axis forces in Europe were pretty beat up, and if we dismiss the U.S.S.R defending itself, they were chasing the Nazis *as they were already fleeing*. The offensive was a colossal failure, the Nazis were retreating. Admittedly the Soviets suffered the highest losses during WWII, but that was primarily due to their strategy of literally throwing meat into the cogs of the Nazi war machine until they started grinding to a halt, not necessarily due to some extraordinary effort. If not for the fact that Hitler betrayed Stalin, the U.S.S.R would’ve been perfectly satisfied with the non-aggression pact they signed with the Nazis at the beginning of the conflict and the end result would’ve likely been the same - the Soviets gobbling up all of the defeated states along the way as soon as the Axis croaked, except with less loss on their side. From what I’ve read, Stalin was pretty confident that the Allies would’ve stopped the Nazis regardless, so he seized the opportunity to jump on board for the sake of territorial expansion. Loss of life was irrelevant to him - we’re talking about Stalin, after all. I’m not entirely sure if I should be thankful for being liberated from one monster by way of getting thrown into the jaws of another - the Soviets weren’t exactly pleasant to their new “satellite states” and “soviet republics”. We still have an axe to grind with the west after Yalta, where everyone conveniently forgot pre-war agreements for the sake of ending the war there and then.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 4, 2022)

Flame said:


> i beg you dont cry.
> 
> its funny to me that people like you and @Valwinz and many others in this section put the politicians in government. like people who have the same thoughts as Putin in western countries who support bad polices.
> 
> the chickens have come home to roost


....What the hell are you talking about?

Can anybody be a moderator on this site? It doesn't seem to require much skill or intelligence to apply.



SG854 said:


> -snip-


That doesn't even make any sense at this point or context.

On a side note, apparently, everybody in this thread got it all wrong. Putin is not invading Ukraine, he's invading Russia. Our duly elected president said so!


----------



## Viri (Mar 5, 2022)

Flame said:


> Russian help win second world war because Nazi attacked Russia first.


Yeah, after taking half of Poland, the Baltic states, Moldova, and parts of Finland.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 5, 2022)

world war 3 is near moreover, the media is exaggerating too much miss information about russian - ukraine civil war
Ukraine was a part of USSR


----------



## Xzi (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> world war 3 is near moreover, the media is exaggerating too much miss information about russian - ukraine civil war
> Ukraine was a part of USSR


And the USSR no longer exists, for good reason.  That's something Putin will have to cope with, because it's never coming back if even he does temporarily capture Ukraine.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 5, 2022)

i applause to western media for making Zelensky a mere clown into a hero, he only makes everything worse
and i laughed you fall with that


Xzi said:


> And the USSR no longer exists, for good reason.  That's something Putin will have to cope with, because it's never coming back if even he does temporarily capture Ukraine.


they have long history yet the clowns want to forget all of it by joining Nato and make a threat against russia


----------



## Xzi (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> they have long history yet the clowns want to forget all of it by joining Nato and make a threat against russia


Ukraine has a long history of not taking any shit from Russian puppet governments, yes.  And joining NATO cannot reasonably be construed as a threat, it's a preventative measure meant to stop senseless invasions and loss of civilian life like what's happening now.  There's no possible way to spin Ukraine as the aggressors here.


----------



## Viri (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> they have long history yet the clowns want to forget all of it by joining Nato and make a threat against russia


Instead of invading Ukraine, maybe Russia needs to consider why Ukraine wants to join NATO, EU and the west in the first place, and why it doesn't want to remain a pseudo puppet state, like Belarus.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 5, 2022)

Viri said:


> Instead of invading Ukraine, maybe Russia needs to consider why Ukraine wants to join NATO, EU and the west in the first place, and why it doesn't want to remain a pseudo puppet state, like Belarus.


Lukashenko describes himself as, I quote, “the last dictator in Europe”. There hasn’t been a free election in Belarus since 1994, and the first thing Lukashenko did after scoring a suspicious 81% of the vote was granting himself the power to dissolve the legislature, shortly followed by extending his own term. Of course each time there was a “referendum”, it was totally above board, no funny business at all, wink wink, nudge nudge. He’s done the latter multiple times, much like Putin, so for all intents and purposes their stay in their individual offices can be considered indefinite. As far as I’m concerned, these two are such close bed fellows that distinguishing between the two states is almost pointless. Belarus never got out of the post-U.S.S.R rut, and I’d argue that it’s worse there than in Russia itself. The country was “sovereign” for all of 3 years, and immediately returned to the oppressor like a victim of Stockholm Syndrome. Truly sad.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i applause to western media for making Zelensky a mere clown into a hero, he only makes everything worse
> and i laughed you fall with that
> 
> they have long history yet the clowns want to forget all of it by joining Nato and make a threat against russia


Hope you already got paid … because come Monday …


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 5, 2022)

i doubt the sanction will be effective, china still have a trade with russia


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 5, 2022)

Russian Soldier training


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 5, 2022)

Not sure if serious and unable to detect high levels of cringe or posting in jest.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 5, 2022)

Flame said:


> Nnnnnnn, what the fuck you on?
> 
> which country of allies attacked Nazi first? they only defended themselves (the allies) or they would have been eliminated. Dont white wash the second world war. UK had no choice it was war or survival, USA only went in cause of pearl harbour.  Russian help win second world war because Nazi attacked Russia first.
> 
> ...


Thats not how its was back in the day:

-poland attacked the germans first (fire attack on german goverment building)

- uk had a choice ! germany  even tried to keep the piece (read about Rudolf Hess)

- USA went in not because of pearl harbour  it was because germany had a new economic system where international "bankers" cant profit off ( just read churchills biography and you will get the point)


----------



## linuxares (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i doubt the sanction will be effective, china still have a trade with russia



Don't worry! I bet just China and Russia can definitely keep bringing themselves profits. The RMB and Ruble fits so well together.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 5, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Don't worry! I bet just China and Russia can definitely keep bringing themselves profits. The RMB and Ruble fits so well together.


I hardly doubt that you understand the long-term impact of this collaboration for world economics.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 5, 2022)

rantex92 said:


> Thats not how its was back in the day:
> 
> -poland attacked the germans first (fire attack on german goverment building)
> 
> ...


About your second point:
And that was Germany´s error. The painter was willing to sacrifice his country for the benefit of the Western world, to which he his people belonged, he thought. Much like Zelensky today. The US (and UK) are happy to use Ukrainians as canon fodder.
From the Russian perspective NATO are just the new Nazis preparing for war. It doesn´t help that the most active soldiers in Ukraine are Nazi sympathizers. They - just like the painter - see Russians as racially inferior, as Asianic hordes resemblic mongols of old (or as subhumans, as former Prime Minister Yatsenyuk called them). The recent invasion helped to perpetuate this thinking ("Die Russen kommen!")


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 5, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> I hardly doubt that you understand the long-term impact of this collaboration for world economics.


it's no biggie it's only US & some of europe nation, China and many more country didn't agree with this terms

after all of this embargo drama China will come victorious and may pass US possition as  a Super Power nation


----------



## smf (Mar 5, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If the Russian military is successful, they will probably use their presence as a bargaining chip to unfreeze their assets: give the money back or we stay.


The Russian military will have to stay in huge numbers to avoid a 100 year civil war.

There is no way Putin is getting his money back ever. He is done.



Viri said:


> , maybe Russia needs to consider why Ukraine wants to join NATO, EU and the west in the first place, and why it doesn't want to remain a pseudo puppet state, like Belarus.


They know why it is, it's like asking a kidnapper to consider why his victims try to escape.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> it's no biggie it's only US & some of europe nation, China and many more country didn't agree with this terms
> 
> after all of this embargo drama China will come victorious and may pass US possition as  a Super Power nation


Yeah, trading with Russia's collapsed economy is sure to bring China infinite riches.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 5, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> it's no biggie it's only US & some of europe nation, China and many more country didn't agree with this terms
> 
> after all of this embargo drama China will come victorious and may pass US possition as  a Super Power nation


China?
You mean the Country that tricked Putin into doing this …

China the country’s is currently undercutting Russian Fuel prices

China that is waiting for Russian market to reopen to back all of Russian assets on 10rubles for a penny 

China who played Putin into selling mother Russia to them


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 5, 2022)

Russia still owes China land about the size of a European country. Yet when the settled a border dispute further west, the compromise was roughly a 50:50 split. Seems like Putin´s history only comprises the 20th, not the 19th century.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 5, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia still owes China land about the size of a European country. Yet when the settled a border dispute further west, the compromise was roughly a 50:50 split. Seems like Putin´s history only comprises the 20th, not the 19th century.


Lol and there you go..
why WWIII will have the axis members turn on itself. Lol China is going to pounce on the Russian paper tiger.

And don’t forget China is itches for that Indian land, it seems like they had firefight monthly for the last couple of years


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 5, 2022)

djpannda said:


> And don’t forget China is itches for that Indian land, it seems like they had firefight monthly for the last couple of years


India uses British maps to determine their border. China disagrees. An agreement should be achievable. The disputed territories aren´t that useful.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 5, 2022)

Apparently Moscow today..(and most likely, it is weather matches)  I guess Putin Is having a hard time explaining all the loses to Ukraine


----------



## Marc_LFD (Mar 5, 2022)

The situation has gotten worse with Western countries blocking RT nearly completely.

And they're removing vodka from supermarkets even though a lot of it is made in U.K. I guess they should rename it "moonshine" or something to keep selling it.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 5, 2022)

And 

Russian workers are stagings protest, and I’m pretty sure it’s just the start


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

smf said:


> The Russian military will have to stay in huge numbers to avoid a 100 year civil war.
> 
> There is no way Putin is getting his money back ever. He is done.


Russia don't need this money back, believe me. It got back it's gold - that's far more important. All US has confiscated was dollars and euro, PAPER. So take it and increase inflation - it's just as you printed new and threw it into US economics, and that will shake US and UN economics.
More imoprtantly, Russian ruble for the first time may be supported by gold, just as dollar once were. I'm sure you DON'T understand what does this mean. It'll become most stable currency over time.

Meanwhile, UKR military killed Denis Kireev - man of their own who took part in a first negotiation process and later was suspected in treason. Just killed him and showed off his corpse in news. No judges, no investigation, no advocates - death sentence here and now.
Also military hitting their own civilians that tries to escape conflict zone, calling them deserters and killing right away.
And OF COURSE this won't be showed to you. All you have as a source - propaganda and edited 8-years old videos.
Don't you worry, soon UN will understand what type of snake they've supported. All these companies that running away from Russia now will be having a hard time getting back.
Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Intel, AMD - congratulations gyus. You've just cut your leg off and it won't be given back so easily.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

And mark my words. The war - the real total war - will take place in case Russia stops supplying gas to Europe. Until that point NATO will ship firearms and make propaganda, but never officially send troops in Ukraine.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

I just watched CNN news about destroyed bridge in Kiev, and I've gotta say it's full of shit. First of all, Ukrainian military blew up this bridge themselves! Second, there's no Rusian artillery shooting Kiev now, not even one!
At the other hand, UKR artillery resumes Donbass shotout, covering it with artillery fire.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 6, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> I just watched CNN news about destroyed bridge in Kiev, and I've gotta say it's full of shit. First of all, Ukrainian military blew up this bridge themselves! Second, there's no Rusian artillery shooting Kiev now, not even one!
> At the other hand, UKR artillery resumes Donbass shotout, covering it with artillery fire.


Lol how’s that Kermlin propaganda working for you? Because most the world ain’t buying it even Russian themselves


----------



## djpannda (Mar 6, 2022)

Oh sh!y Russian is calling Military reinforcements
…..city busses and soccer mom minivans..
.. well at this point, a Toyota is just as effective as Russian tank against a stinger


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

Time will tell, and truth has a short legs. 
Watch and see.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 6, 2022)

It's worth listening to this letter that Yanis Varoufakis reads out from Russians. It suggests how Putin does not have the support of his people and they may well rise up against him.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6299630074001/#sp=show-clips
Here's how it will end.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> It's worth listening to this letter that Yanis Varoufakis reads out from Russians. It suggests how Putin does not have the support of his people and they may well rise up against him.



Another pro-west "expert" who thinks he can speak for the whole nation while he don't. Most of Russian men actually support Putin, especially now, because we know that once you started the action you have no other way than win it. So Putin must and will supress any internal rebel actions.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Oh sh!y Russian is calling Military reinforcements
> …..city busses and soccer mom minivans..
> .. well at this point, a Toyota is just as effective as Russian tank against a stinger



I'm not gonna even comment this shitty movie. You at the other hand may call it whatever you like, this won't change reality or help citizens of Ukraine.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 6, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Lol how’s that Kermlin propaganda working for you? Because most the world ain’t buying it even Russian themselves



There will always be people who don't agree with current course. You can't take their opinions and place them on top of others, you know that?


----------



## omgcat (Mar 6, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Intel, AMD - congratulations gyus. You've just cut your leg off and it won't be given back so easily.


russia makes a fraction of a percent of those companies sales. like going from 100% to 99.5%. gosh i bet they are hurting sooo much. russias GDP is crap, and it's economy is collapsing due to putin's ****ery. they can use gold all they want, but they can't just use alchemy to turn gold into resources they don't have. computers are the life blood of countries in the 21st century, and having semiconductors and microchips shut off from you is extremely bad for your country. Russia is basically bleeding out at this point.


----------



## Cliffhatley (Mar 6, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s certainly been a while since we’ve seen a more underwhelming advance of a military force. They have a huge numbers advantage and, with persistence, they’re likely to take the capitol eventually, but the cost at which they’re doing it is making them look like clowns. There’s no saving face from this - at this point they’re not even picking up their own fallen since it’d carry the risk of more casualties. Thoroughly demoralising.


This is an out of control situation, because everyone is scared of what low blow response we would get, by retaliating against a power hungry, Russian president, who is very simply a mobster who has won so far, using his brutal tactics. No different than watching the movies, the godfather. Except Russia couldnt keep those checks and balances ao now there is a mobster president we all have to suffer dealing with.....INCLUDING Russian people who also are suffering because of his strong- hold. This isnt the USA, Iran, UK's war per say....but the fact is this dude needs to be removed or it will become worse. Even if Russia wants their non democratic society...the way it is now is not conducive to the free world's rights: World rights worth fighting for: peace, freedom of religion, air, water free of biological, nuclear contamination, damage to OUR earth, History, wandering homeless refugees thanks to one wrong leader. What happened in godfather, he died, his son, next godfather,  was worse; and more ruthless, and strategic, knowledgable.  RICO Act 1970 eventually aided the government to have a higher level of control that actually made a difference to the US mobsters and kept them behìnd bars, removing the allure of the classic model of mafia family. We did it with laws, because we could as it was under our controlled environment (US Federal RICO Law). But everyone knows if you wipe out the leaders in the mob family, the whole organization falls apart. As USA watching buturing of peoples, we know better than to await the reprucussions of a a jerk offs fight, that will inevitability affect everyone. Iď rather have more Ukranians to help us then await their fighter's near exinction, before we and NATO respond. F- rules of engagement.  We are already going to be paying big time, to fix the damage he is doing, aiding those families, and communities to rebuild indefinitely. This is OUR business because his decision affects all. Someone needs to "STEP DOWN OR PUT DOWN PUTIN". He may not wish to loose, butif so many  of his own countrymen disagree of the situation, he insists to stand by, then Putin and his office should be unanimously urged to step down and leave it to the next to accept troop withdrawls! Yeas right, he wants the control of the family of coarse, so....PUT HIM DOWN


----------



## djpannda (Mar 6, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> There will always be people who don't agree with current course. You can't take their opinions and place them on top of others, you know that?


Lol Kremlin trolls are getting Feisty maybe it’s because Putin is  in hiding because if he shows His face his own military will have his head


----------



## djpannda (Mar 6, 2022)

Lol anonymous hack streaming service in Russia (the only ones left, as they all left Russian) 
… I suspect tomorrow might be another round of huge protest all around Russia


----------



## djpannda (Mar 6, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Another pro-west "expert" who thinks he can speak for the whole nation while he don't. Most of Russian men actually support Putin, especially now, because we know that once you started the action you have no other way than win it. So Putin must and will supress any internal rebel actions.


Lol  gues you didn’t tell the  babushka.. they mad their sons are being used


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

The US and Poland have greenlit a deal to get fighter jets to the Ukrainian military.  Hopefully a no-fly zone can be established relatively quickly.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The US and Poland have greenlit a deal to get fighter jets to the Ukrainian military.  Hopefully a no-fly zone can be established relatively quickly.


although I hope that Jet deal goes thru, There still will be a no-FLy zone created.. NATO still waiting,, but now Russia Propaganda is trying to say Ukrianians were working on a Dirty Bomb... and many fear Putin is going to try to place a Nuke and Blame it on Ukraine ....


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> although I hope that Jet deal goes thru, There still will be a no-FLy zone created.. NATO still waiting,, but now Russia Propaganda is trying to say Ukrianians were working on a Dirty Bomb... and many fear Putin is going to try to place a Nuke and Blame it on Ukraine ....


If Putin is dumb enough to detonate a nuclear weapon of any size in Ukraine, I doubt the US would stay on the sidelines.  That might be the only reason he hasn't done it already.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

And the news that US is in negotiations with Venezuela for oil is a slap in the face to Russia not only because Russia donated millions to Venezuela for aid but it’s a sign that the US does not need Russia’s oil anymore, Hopefully US cooperation will lead to better conditions in Venezuela also


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 7, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Whatever you say loser, we're done here.


Oh cool, so I won right?
Anyways....


BitMasterPlus said:


> That's right. We can't have that tyrant back in, so let's destroy the world and kill everybody to make sure it doesn't happen!


Reminder that this is a bs post, that only a loser would make. And then you attacked me over me stating it as BS.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 7, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Oh cool, so I won right?
> Anyways....
> 
> Reminder that this is a bs post, that only a loser would make. And then you attacked me over me stating it as BS.


Pot, meet kettle, jackass.


----------



## Joe88 (Mar 7, 2022)

Those cold war era jets wont stand a chance against their modern fighter jets (mig35/su57) along with their mobile sam's
Thats under the assumption putin will actually use them or keep pumping out old stuff as cannon fodder


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Another pro-west "expert" who thinks he can speak for the whole nation while he don't. *Most of Russian men actually support Putin,* especially now, because we know that once you started the action you have no other way than win it. So Putin must and will supress any internal rebel actions.



are you okay?  blink twice if you need an SOS


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 7, 2022)

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-authorities-arrest-over-13000-anti-war-protesters-report

A lot of people are getting arrested in Russia for protesting the war. I'm surprised that many people in Russia oppose the war. Also, they should know that Russia isn't as free as in America, Putin will arrest yo ass. Either way, the end result of all of this will less than desirable.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> although I hope that Jet deal goes thru, There still will be a no-FLy zone created.. NATO still waiting,, but now Russia Propaganda is trying to say Ukrianians were working on a Dirty Bomb... and many fear Putin is going to try to place a Nuke and Blame it on Ukraine ....


Kinda reminds me of Iraq situation. Have US found nukes there of had to bring some along, eh?

As for me, there's no need in further posting here as you people are heavily dependant on mass media that works in one-sided style. Truth will prevail sooner or later.

And one last thing. Thinking of Putin as a Tyrant you must know one thing - never even once a person was sentenced to prison for speaking in other language than russian. Zelenski officially forbids russian language with huge penalties for those using it, despite the fact that most of his own men using it natively.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> And one last thing. Thinking of Putin as a Tyrant you must know one thing - never even once a person was sentenced to prison for speaking in other language than russian. Zelenski officially forbids russian language with huge penalties for those using it, despite the fact that most of his own men using it natively.


Get your facts straight, it was Poroshenko that brought in that law. Zelensky wasn't even in office when that law was passed in parliament.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Get your facts straight, it was Poroshenko that brought in that law. Zelensky wasn't even in office when that law was passed in parliament.


And still this law exists.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> And one last thing. Thinking of Putin as a Tyrant you must know one thing - never even once a person was sentenced to prison for speaking in other language than russian. Zelenski officially forbids russian language with huge penalties for those using it, despite the fact that most of his own men using it natively.


Putin has 7-year-olds in adult jail for protesting the war.  That is tyranny.  Putin does not give a fuck about anybody except Putin.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Putin has 7-year-olds in adult jail for protesting the war.  That is tyranny.  Putin does not give a fuck about anybody except Putin.


Some proof required.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Some proof required.


Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that you'd call any source except RT "fake news."  Shit is so played out.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that you'd call any source except RT "fake news."  Shit is so played out.


Meaning you got nothing. Your entire post is BS then.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Meaning you got nothing. Your entire post is BS then.


The source is ABC News, and corroborated by several other outlets.  Not that you actually give a fuck.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The source is ABC News, and corroborated by several other outlets.  Not that you actually give a fuck.


I asked for proof, and instead of giving me one you started to tell who gives a fuck about what. Troll position as for me.
Got a problem with me because I don't eat your propaganda? That's fine. But keep yourself polite at least as I haven't turned it personal.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> And one last thing. Thinking of Putin as a Tyrant you must know one thing - never even once a person was sentenced to prison for speaking in other language than russian. Zelenski officially forbids russian language with huge penalties for those using it, despite the fact that most of his own men using it natively.


Nah, Putin does so much worse. A fucking tyrant.
Plus that law was signed in to law by a pro-Russian.

Also, why is it wrong that in Ukraine, you speak Ukranian?


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Nah, Putin does so much worse. A fucking tyrant.
> Plus that law was signed in to law by a pro-Russian.
> 
> Also, why is it wrong that in Ukraine, you speak Ukranian?


It is wrong that you have no right to speak in russian whether you need or want to. Do you agree?


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> It is wrong that you have no right to speak in russian should you need or want to. Do you agree?


Theirs nothing in the law (quickly read a summary of it) that prohibits Russian. It's just in government and official language. It's Ukranian. If you don't like it, why not just... you know, move to Russia?


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

And how do you call people who wiped out Iraq, leaving it in ruins if not Fucking Tyrant? Defender of US citizens? Yeah, Iraq was such a BIG threat to US.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> And how do you call people who wiped out Iraq, leaving it in ruins if not Fucking Tyrant? Defender of US citizens? Yeah, Iraq was such a BIG threat to US.


I never defended the US. I don't particularly like them either. I'm all for George Bush to be sent to the Hague.

But this isn't what we talk about. Now it's Russia (or rather Putin) attacking a innocent country for made up reasons (see the George Bush and Iraq war)


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Made up from your point of view. From mine they're quite clear and straight. A lot of people in Donbass were killed during 8-year long conflict by Ukrainian nazi's wearing Bendera labels. Reason enough for me.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Got a problem with me because I don't eat your propaganda? That's fine. But keep yourself polite at least as I haven't turned it personal.


No, I have a problem with you because you're spewing Putin's propaganda all over this thread.  He's shown how weak he is by ordering the military to target civilians, and as a result of his actions, Russia's economy will be sent back to the stone ages for the next 40 years.  Not that he cares about the fate of his serfs.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Made up from your point of view. From mine they're quite clear and straight. A lot of people in Donbass were killed during 8-year long conflict by Ukrainian nazi's wearing Bendera labels. Reason enough for me.


That's the police job to deal with. But then some megalomaniac from Russia and wanted land back.
Your reason is shit.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> I never defended the US. I don't particularly like them either. I'm all for George Bush to be sent to the Hague.
> 
> But this isn't what we talk about. Now it's Russia (or rather Putin) attacking a innocent country for made up reasons (see the George Bush and Iraq war)


Then why didn't everyone blocks USA back then, removing their companies and breaking relationships when this clearly was an aggression? Whole world just turned away and bite "nukes" story.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Then why didn't everyone blocks USA back then, removing their companies and breaking relationships when this clearly was an aggression? Whole world just turned away and bite "nukes" story.


I can't answer that. Russia and a lot of countries could have sanctioned. They didn't Was it because a dictator was in control?

It was never Nukes that was being said, but "Weapons of mass destruction". A lot of people called it fake, and low and behold. It was fake.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, I have a problem with you because you're spewing Putin's propaganda all over this thread.  He's shown how weak he is by ordering the military to target civilians, and as a result of his actions, Russia's economy will be sent back to the stone ages for the next 40 years.  Not that he cares about the fate of his serfs.


I've nothing to say to trolls such as yourself. Ignore me please. And believe me, it's US and Euro economics that will suffer heavy losses from now on. Don't want to sell iPhones no more to russians? Great, stick it up your bud.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> I've nothing to say to trolls such as yourself.


I'm not trolling, I'm being as straight as I can with you.  Your country is clearly long overdue for a revolution when like three guys at the Kremlin can decide to invade a sovereign country that was showing no aggression toward Russia.  I never fell for the WMDs lie with Iraq, so there's no excuse for you to fall for Putin's lies with Ukraine.  George W. Bush is an imperialist pigshit war criminal, and Vladimir Putin is an imperialist pigshit war criminal.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> US and Euro economics that will suffer heavy losses from now on.


Nope, that's not how it works buddy. There are plenty of other countries that can pick up the slack Russia is getting.
At the moment Russia will go back to 1980s if the economic sanctions prolongs. The Ruble is worth less than the Turkisk Lira and that say a lot.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Nope, that's not how it works buddy. There are plenty of other countries that can pick up the slack Russia is getting.
> At the moment Russia will go back to 1980s if the economic sanctions prolongs. The Ruble is worth less than the Turkisk Lira and that say a lot.


Well yeah, maybe someone's willingly take Russia place as gas and oil suppliers.
As I said, truth have short legs. Neither my opinion nor yours as well can change things that takes place now, so basically this whole arguing is useless.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Well yeah, maybe someone's willingly take Russia place in gas and oil market.
> As I said, truth have short legs. Neither my opinion nor yours as well can change things that takes place now, so basically this whole arguing is useless.


Yepp! Norway for the Gas and the Saudi's for the oil most likely.

Well, YOU can make a change. Demand your tyranical leader to stop the freaking war.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm not trolling, I'm being as straight as I can with you.  Your country is clearly long overdue for a revolution when like three guys at the Kremlin can decide to invade a sovereign country that was showing no aggression toward Russia.  I never fell for the WMDs lie with Iraq, so there's no excuse for you to fall for Putin's lies with Ukraine.  George W. Bush is an imperialist pigshit war criminal, and Vladimir Putin is an imperialist pigshit war criminal.


So tell me, why USA didn't get banned from everywhere back that days while Russia do novadays?


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Yepp! Norway for the Gas and the Saudi's for the oil most likely.
> 
> Well, YOU can make a change. Demand your tyranical leader to stop the freaking war.


1. No, there's no communications to transfer gas to Europe right now,
2. No. Protesting an acting leader in a state of war with other counties is a stupid thing to do. Once you engage in a war, you have to stand unified.


----------



## Reiten (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> I asked for proof, and instead of giving me one you started to tell who gives a fuck about what. Troll position as for me.
> Got a problem with me because I don't eat your propaganda? That's fine. But keep yourself polite at least as I haven't turned it personal.


First: Not sure maybe I missed it, but what exactly are your sources? And remember some random guy who's supposedly been to the front-line isn't a source, that's gossip.
Second: What would you accept as a source or proof? I have looked at some news sources outside of Europe and USA, and they paint a rather similar picture to them.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> 1. No, there's no communications to transfer gas to Europe right now,
> 2. No. Protesting an acting leader in a state of war with other counties is a stupid thing to do. Once you engage in a war, you have to stand unified.


1. Boats...
2. Then you're as bad as the once wanting this war against a innocent nation. Shame on you!


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Reiten said:


> First: Not sure maybe I missed it, but what exactly are your sources? And remember some random guy who's supposedly been to the front-line isn't a source, that's gossip.
> Second: What would you except as a source or proof? I have looked at some news sources outside of Europe and USA, and they paint a rather similar picture to them.


Maybe you should look for our news too? At least to have different perspective on some things.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Maybe you should look for our news too? At least to have different perspective on some things.


https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084...calling-ukraine-conflict-a-war-or-an-invasion

Yeah... your "news" are as good as North Koreas.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> 1. Boats...
> 2. Then you're as bad as the once wanting this war against a innocent nation. Shame on you!


1. No chance. Europe needs gas that goes through pipelines. And you won't imagine amount of ships needed.
2. Hold your horses and don't cross the line. You knows nothing of my position to justify me.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Maybe you should look for our news too? At least to have different perspective on some things.


You mean complete Putin sponsored news? Lol your not even allowed to say war without 15 years in jail,, Kremlin shill


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> https://www.npr.org/2022/03/05/1084...calling-ukraine-conflict-a-war-or-an-invasion
> 
> Yeah... your "news" are as good as North Koreas.


Not much of a difference from your propaganda, don't you think? Informational warfare is ongoing and both sides pretends to be righteous, so figures out well.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> You mean complete Putin sponsored news? Lol your not even allowed to say war without 15 years in jail,, Kremlin shill


I don't know who you are but please stay polite. Biden shill.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> As for me, there's no need in further posting here as you people are heavily dependant on mass media that works in one-sided style. Truth will prevail sooner or later.


… 20 post later ….why would we think a Kremlin troll would keeps his word, Putin never has


----------



## Reiten (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Maybe you should look for our news too? At least to have different perspective on some things.


I have seen them, admittedly, my Russian has gotten quite rusty since I haven't used it since my school days, but I understand the gist of the news. And I have to say, most of the rest of the world must have conspired against Russia, to make fake news.
Also you didn't answer my second point, what you would accept as proof or a source.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> … 20 post later ….why would we think a Kremlin troll would keeps his word, Putin never has


Just as you Pentagon troll cannot keep distance. Your Presidents also short for their words. Chill the fuck down.


----------



## Coto (Mar 7, 2022)

Meanwhile Chiden won't send air support or close the sky for Ukraine while at the same time Putin is sending syrian armed forces, since a lot of his own russian military was lied to, sent to death, not really defending, but invading a country that does not belong to Russia in any way. Let's not even talk about ukraine civilians being assassinated at random spots, while ukrainian military allows/allowed them to retrieve military or civilian hostages either alive or dead.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> 1. No chance. Europe needs gas that goes through pipelines. And you won't imagine amount of ships needed.
> 2. Hold your horses and don't cross the line. You knows nothing of my position to justify me.


1. Europe need power, not the gas itself.
2. You talk like a puppet. Change my mind then.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Just as you Pentagon troll cannot keep distance. Your Presidents also short for their words. Chill the fuck down.


Lol wow 131 with highs is 139.. man..a single sheet of toilet paper is worth more then the Ruble.. so is your feeble attempt to “pacify” GBATEMP with Kermlin propaganda a coping mechanism for the fact your Kremlin salary is worthless and the tech world has abandoned Russian… 


Oh and wait till Kremlin actually has the balls to open their stock markets… lol for the ruble to be 300….


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

1. Where can it take that power then? Most of european fabrics are heavily dependant on gas.
2. I don't feel like it. I know the difference and that's enough for me. This is a free forum and I have my right to say whatever I want as long as I don't show rudeness or affect persons. You at the other hand already crossing some lines even being a moderator. My personality is not of your concern at all.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> 1. Where can it take that power then? Most of european fabrics are heavily dependant on gas.
> 2. I don't feel like it. I know the difference and that's enough for me. This is a free forum and I have my right to say whatever I want as long as I don't show rudeness or affect persons. You at the other hand already crossing some lines even being a moderator. My personality is not of your concern at all.


1. We will be fine. 
2. Nah, this is a free forum after all. I have the same right as you to say whatever I want. I just don't accept people from Russia claming this war is just.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> Meanwhile Chiden won't send air support or close the sky for Ukraine


That's a great way to escalate this conflict even more


----------



## Coto (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> That's a great way to escalate this conflict even more


Well North Korea, China and Russia (Putin) have threatened the whole world about nuclear nukes a few times these past 2 years.

Are you claiming Biden is innocent on all of this? Because didn't he literally destroy USA oil plants and instead would opt for Russian oil? Same as energy?
You've got :
1) Biden assisting Russia money-wise, or are you sure Putin's income is 100% in-house?
2) USA's inflation.  and all countries paying Russia's war through taxes.

Escalation what were you saying? Or maybe... you don't want the truth on your face?


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> Well North Korea, China and Russia (Putin) have threatened the whole world about nuclear nukes a few times these past 2 years.
> 
> Are you claiming Biden is innocent on all of this? Because didn't he literally destroy USA oil plants and instead would opt for Russian oil? Same as energy?
> 
> Escalation what where you saying? Or maybe... you don't want the truth on your face?


USA oil is lightweight and cannot stand equal to Russian or Saudi Arabian's oil. It's just has a poor quality.


----------



## smf (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> Because didn't he literally destroy USA oil plants and instead would opt for Russian oil? Same as energy?


When did he literally destroy USA oil plants?



Dark Ronin said:


> USA oil is lightweight and cannot stand equal to Russian or Saudi Arabian's oil. It's just has a poor quality.


The US Light and sweet oil are higher quality than opec.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> USA oil is lightweight and cannot stand equal to Russian or Saudi Arabian's oil. It's just has a poor quality.


Venazula and solar, will make Russia an after thought 

heres a link if Kremlin allows you to view it comrade !
US officials fly to Venezuela for talks in apparent bid to further isolate Russia​


----------



## Coto (Mar 7, 2022)

smf said:


> When did he literally destroy USA oil plants?


https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/joe-biden-no-new-coal-or-oil-plants/



> Joe Biden: “Nobody’s going to build another coal-fired plant” or “oil-fired power plant in America”.​




--


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally



> in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually:I literally died when she walked out on stage in that costume.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/russian-...cts-collapse-like-fall-of-nazi-germany/241770

Big if true


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> https://www.gbnews.uk/news/russian-...cts-collapse-like-fall-of-nazi-germany/241770
> 
> Big if true


did you read the actually letters.. I read it on Sat. and my mind was blown. FSB agents state that Russia agency did not even believe Putin was going to start the _*"WAR". *_and that this is a Win or collapse for Russia.. 

and it also Explains why Zelensky is still alive and *Chechens *mission failed spectacularly because Russian Agents leak it.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> did you read the actually letters.. I read it on Sat. and my mind was blown. FSB agents state that Russia agency did not even believe Putin was going to start the _*"WAR". *_and that this is a Win or collapse for Russia..
> 
> and it also Explains why Zelensky is still alive and *Chechens *mission failed spectacularly because Russian Agents leak it.


I did.

Apparently confirmed by other sources as well. So yeah... this must all been Putin and no one else.


----------



## smf (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/joe-biden-no-new-coal-or-oil-plants/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_The adverb literally means *"actually,"* and we use it when we want others to know we're serious, not exaggerating or being metaphorical._

So he didn't literally destroy oil plants, your article just says he isn't opening any new ones.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> I did.
> 
> Apparently confirmed by other sources as well. So yeah... this must all been Putin and no one else.


what is also interesting is that Belarus is at the point of Collapse also, when the Army refused to participate in Russias _*WAR, *_if reports are true several high level military resigned and soldiers refusing to be on the boarder. and lets not forget Tikhanovskaya is gaining steam...


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> what is also interesting is that Belarus is at the point of Collapse also, when the Army refused to participate in Russias _*WAR, *_if reports are true several high level military resigned and soldiers refusing to be on the boarder. and lets not forget Tikhanovskaya is gaining steam...


I mean it's been unstable since the last election. It's a powder keg ready to go off any moment.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> what is also interesting is that Belarus is at the point of Collapse also, when the Army refused to participate in Russias _*WAR, *_if reports are true several high level military resigned and soldiers refusing to be on the boarder. and lets not forget Tikhanovskaya is gaining steam...


Funny thing is they were considering on helping them but as soon as wind carried that up high countries started sanctioning the shit out of them too. Its a no win situation for Russia's army right now. 

Right now Putin might not have a lot of moves left, that can be a very good thing, or an extremely bad thing depending on the outcome.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Funny thing is they were considering on helping them but as soon as wind carried that up high countries started sanctioning the shit out of them too. Its a no win situation for Russia's army right now.
> 
> Right now Putin might not have a lot of moves left, that can be a very good thing, or an extremely bad thing depending on the outcome.


the very few outcomes... 1) Russia takes over Ukriane ( and deal will a Resistance force that will never calm) and creates a Iron curtain, where the world Shuns them
2) the Collapse of Russia ( and possible China Gobbling Russia assesets. )
3) Nuke the world


I don't see Putin Willingly giving up


----------



## smf (Mar 7, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Right now Putin might not have a lot of moves left, that can be a very good thing, or an extremely bad thing depending on the outcome.


In terms of ukraine he will front it out whatever.

If all the russian soldiers come back in body bags then he can just shrug it off.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 7, 2022)

Is racism against Russians going to be a problem after all this?


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I don't see Putin Willingly giving up


Not without some proper encouragement from his countryfolk short of rising up against him and flipping the Kremlin over. That said I see an unfortunate scenario where he might attempt to use nuclear faculties to take down the capital as his means of claiming victory.

It could get very grim unless someone takes the fight to his comfort zone.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Is racism against Russians going to be a problem after all this?


Which Is why I Choose to use Kremlin  instead of Russian.. but yes Russian distain will take year to dissipate.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Jezz 152 without the Russian stock market  open .. Russia will take years to recover...

everyone with Crypto becareful.... im sure their will been plenty of Russian agency doing scams to the Crypto space , which will bring governmentally oversight


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Wow that was quick.. the world is smelling Russian blood 

Don’t be Surprised If Chechen starts acting up..


----------



## Coto (Mar 7, 2022)

smf said:


> _The adverb literally means *"actually,"* and we use it when we want others to know we're serious, not exaggerating or being metaphorical._
> 
> So he didn't literally destroy oil plants, your article just says he isn't opening any new ones.


That's bullshit. But I wouldn't be surprised if you suddenly make out a fact from a dictionary definition when in fact the point originally was something else.


Point:
Why is he buying Russian Oil then? *Because of some WEF /  WHO / United Nations advice?*

1)
Proceeds to halt USA Oil plants

2)
USA's Oil price being suddenly struck by high prices, which are turning right now into inflation.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Theirs nothing in the law (quickly read a summary of it) that prohibits Russian. It's just in government and official language. It's Ukranian. If you don't like it, why not just... you know, move to Russia?


All Ukrainian citizens speak Russian but not all of them speak Ukrainian. The Russian language is considered the standard, much like standard German in Austria/Switzerland or Mandarin Chinese in China (incl. Taiwan and Hong Kong). If during the time of British rule, Hong Kong had declared Chinese as an unwelcome language, it would have been considered an aggression.

At the border of empires (that´s what Ukraine means btw: borderland), people often rebel to create their own state, see the American revolution or the American Civil War. Imagine if in the American Civil War, the South would have tried to join an adversarial military alliance. If you want war within your new state, you do stupid stuff like this (or banning official dominant languages).


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Ukrainian citizens speak Russian but not all of them speak Ukrainian. T


....lol and...Ukrianian has the Right as a Sovern nation to do what the fuck it want.. and Using the language thats named after is what they want ... 

by your logic, I support an INDIAN take over to implentment Cantonese as the office Chinese language


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Ukrainian citizens speak Russian but not all of them speak Ukrainian. The Russian language is considered the standard, much like standard German in Austria/Switzerland or Mandarin Chinese in China (incl. Taiwan and Hong Kong). If during the time of British rule, Hong Kong had declared Chinese as an unwelcome language, it would have been considered an aggression.
> 
> At the border of empires (that´s what Ukraine means btw: borderland), people often rebel to create their own state, see the American revolution or the American Civil War. Imagine if in the American Civil War, the South would have tried to join an adversarial military alliance. If you want war within your new state, you do stupid stuff like this (or banning official dominant languages).


first, what the fuck are you talking about. Ukrainian is more widely used than Russian (the latter being used on the east of the country.

second, how can you be so wrong and not admit the several mistakes of your *singular* post? the mandarin Chinese you love to bring up actually differs in mainland PRC China and Taiwan and HK. every native will tell you so.
dialects, ever heard of them? sure, it might be the same language, but the vocab used will differ. hell, even Mandarin in PRC China itself is not consistent (northern vs southern)


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> but invading a country that does not belong to Russia in any way.


Last time I checked, Iraq and Syria do not belong to the US in any way, yet the US military has invaded those countries and is still there. Do you support sanctions against the US, hypocrite?

In contrast, Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire, the Russian-led Soviet Union and consists of millions of Russians. So "not belong to Russia in any way" is a childish Western individualist analysis.
Even Germany is linked to Turkey in a way. Its territory has never been Turkish (unlike Ukraine having been Russian), but there are millions of Turks in Germany. Even there, antagonizing them would be a stupid idea - unless Germany wants conflict with Turkey.
Ukraine wanted conflict with Russia and now it got it. The West encouraged it and now just watches on the sidelines. The West is like a feminist encouraging a Turkish wife to go to the disco and get drunk. Yet when her husband beats her, the feminist just watches the beating. Very immoral in my view. Either you mean it or you don´t put her (the woman or here: Ukraine) in danger.


----------



## Flame (Mar 7, 2022)

£1 = 203.26 Russian Ruble

LOOOOOOOL

if you have £5,000 you a millionaire in Russia

LOOOOOOOOOOL

Russian woman here i cum


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Flame said:


> £1 = 203.26 Russian Ruble
> 
> LOOOOOOOL
> 
> ...


Ladies and Gentlemen,
 We are watching the Collapse of a Superpower in Realtime...
the only question remains is if China allows Russia to reman whole or breaks into pieces


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Last time I checked, Iraq and Syria do not belong to the US in any way, yet the US military has invaded those countries and is still there. Do you support sanctions against the US, hypocrite?
> 
> In contrast, Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire, the Russian-led Soviet Union and consists of millions of Russians. So "not belong to Russia in any way" is a childish Western individualist analysis.
> Even Germany is linked to Turkey in a way. Its territory has never been Turkish (unlike Ukraine having been Russian), but there are millions of Turks in Germany. Even there, antagonizing them would be a stupid idea - unless Germany wants conflict with Turkey.
> Ukraine wanted conflict with Russia and now it got it. The West encouraged it and now just watches on the sidelines. The West is like a feminist encouraging a Turkish wife to go to the disco and get drunk. Yet when her husband beats her, the feminist just watches the beating. Very immoral in my view. Either you mean it or you don´t put her (the woman or here: Ukraine) in danger.


scrimblo bimbo was part of peepee poopoo since the bigbang, therefore scrimblo bimbo will never be able to be its own thing

^^^ that's how ridiculous you sound. history means shit belongs to past, not to present or future. if Ukraine decided to be its own state, then they are welcome to do so and history has nothing to do with current state of reality. attempts to "take back" Ukraine back is nothing but an invasion of a sovereign state.

no matter how hard you believe in your scrimblo bimbos being part of peepee poopoo, what matters more is what is NOW. you're pushing a putin narrative with taking away Ukraine's right to be sovereign because "they historically were part of a RU state"


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ukraine wanted conflict with Russia and now it got it. The West encouraged it and now just watches on the sidelines


Ukraine never wanted any conflict with Russia, your mistake. For years Ukraine tried to distance itself from Russia and its shenanigans.

No wonder why many of the Post-Soviet republics joined NATO after 91...


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Ukraine never wanted any conflict with Russia, your mistake. For years Ukraine tried to distance itself from Russia and its shenanigans.
> 
> No wonder why many of the Post-Soviet republics joined NATO after 91...


arguing with this dude gives me severe brain damage ngl, dude doesn't even get the basics right


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

I´m dealing with children here.

For your information, I view the invasion as a colossal mistake, but this level of discourse is unbelievably low. Just to sum up a few points:

-Yes, Chinese Mandarin differs in different parts of China. There are dialects. Similarly, Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian. My Russian is very poor and even I can understand the gist of what Zelensky is saying.
-History matters. Only a victim of Western individualism would think otherwise. When the Ukrainian president says Slava Ukraini, he envokes history. Without history, countries are just big shopping malls.
-My logic regarding Ukraine and Russia still stands. It has nothing to do with India. What the hell...
-Having 5000 British Pounds last year would have made you half as rich as today. A USD millionaire is different from New Taiwanese Dollar millionaire, for example. We are all millionaires with regards to certain currencies. If you want affordable Russian women, you need to go to Ukraine. In fact, it has been attacting Westerners for many years. If the West wanted to help Ukraine, they would have helped its economy and infrastructure, instead of trying to wreck it with exports the Ukrainian market cannot compete with (and inviting it into the single market, which would have excluded it from the Russian one).


----------



## Flame (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´m dealing with children here.
> 
> For your information, I view the invasion as a colossal mistake, but this level of discourse is unbelievably low. Just to sum up a few points:
> 
> ...



let me explain it like this child.

Russia = Japan.

Ukraine = China

if Japan wants land it once had occupation off. is War okay?


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´m dealing with children here.
> 
> For your information, I view the invasion as a colossal mistake, but this level of discourse is unbelievably low. Just to sum up a few points:
> 
> ...


i beg you to never speak on linguistics ever again because whatever you're trying to make out of this salad is an insult to this discipline of science. please just stop on behalf of all linguists of the world.
languages of the same family obviously will be similar. are you now saying Polish is also a dialect of Russian? is Czech a dialect of Slovak?
you know, i don't speak neither Ukrainian nor Russian but i also understand parts of what is Zelensky saying. does that mean Ukrainian is a dialect of any of the languages i speak? no.

for your pathetic history argument, just because Ukraine was a part of Russian state in any way or shape, does _*not*_ fucking justify the invasion.

but keep pushing the Putinesque narrative, it looks cool on such a clown as you.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> i beg you to never speak on linguistics ever again because whatever you're trying to make out of this salad is an insult to this discipline of science. please just stop on behalf of all linguists of the world.
> languages of the same family obviously will be similar. are you now saying Polish is also a dialect of Russian? is Czech a dialect of Slovak?
> you know, i don't speak neither Ukrainian nor Russian but i also understand parts of what is Zelensky saying. does that mean Ukrainian is a dialect of any of the languages i speak? no.
> 
> ...


Being the devil's advocate here, he might not be that off.

Alexander M. Schenker. 1993. "Proto-Slavonic," _The Slavonic Languages_. (Routledge). Pp. 60–121. Pg. 60: _"[The] distinction between dialect and language being blurred, there can be no unanimity on this issue in all instances..."_

C.F. Voegelin and F.M. Voegelin. 1977. _Classification and Index of the World's Languages_ (Elsevier). Pg. 311, _"In terms of immediate mutual intelligibility, the East Slavic zone is a single language."_

Bernard Comrie. 1981. _The Languages of the Soviet Union_ (Cambridge). Pg. 145–146: _"The three East Slavonic languages are very close to one another, with very high rates of mutual intelligibility...The separation of Russian, Ukrainian, and Belorussian as distinct languages is relatively recent...Many Ukrainians in fact speak a mixture of Ukrainian and Russian, finding it difficult to keep the two languages apart..._

This is from wikipedia. While I'm not a linguist (and I don't intend to research it further), despite knowing that Ukrainian is a language, it, along Russian, Bielorusian, are derived from Old East Slavic. Neat fact by the way.

Source


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> i beg you to never speak on linguistics ever again because whatever you're trying to make out of this salad is an insult to this discipline of science. please just stop on behalf of all linguists of the world.
> languages of the same family obviously will be similar. are you now saying Polish is also a dialect of Russian? is Czech a dialect of Slovak?


All Cantonese-speaking people understand Mandarin Chinese.
All Ukrainians understand Russian. 2/3 speak it natively. Fighting a language war is stupid. Unless you are willing to antagonize large numbers of your citizens and your number one trading partner. That´s exactly what Zelensky and the Maidan radicals have done.




blakeana said:


> for your pathetic history argument, just because Ukraine was a part of Russian state in any way or shape, does _*not*_ fucking justify the invasion.


I am not justifying it. I am explaining it. Put Russian missiles on Cuba, say bye-bye to the world. That´s not a justification of US aggression against Cuba.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Cantonese-speaking people understand Mandarin Chinese.
> All Ukrainians understand Russian. 2/3 speak it natively. Fighting a language war is stupid. Unless you are willing to antagonize large numbers of your citizens and your number one trading partner. That´s exactly what Zelensky and the Maidan radicals have done.
> 
> 
> ...


*oh look what I was reading*​China Is Forcing Its Biggest Cantonese-Speaking Region To Speak Mandarin​I for one Welcomes Indian Forces liberating Cantonese China


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Being the devil's advocate here, he might not be that off.
> 
> Alexander M. Schenker. 1993. "Proto-Slavonic," _The Slavonic Languages_. (Routledge). Pp. 60–121. Pg. 60: _"[The] distinction between dialect and language being blurred, there can be no unanimity on this issue in all instances..."_
> 
> ...


no way, languages can have a common origin language
what other words of wisdom you got for me?


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Cantonese-speaking people understand Mandarin Chinese.
> All Ukrainians understand Russian. 2/3 speak it natively. Fighting a language war is stupid. Unless you are willing to antagonize large numbers of your citizens and your number one trading partner. That´s exactly what Zelensky and the Maidan radicals have done.


being bilingual is not a justification to invade someone. again you're defending this putinade with all your pussy out like that.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am not justifying it. I am explaining it. Put Russian missiles on Cuba, say bye-bye to the world. That´s not a justification of US aggression against Cuba.


are you now implying russia was ever a victim there


----------



## Viri (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Wow that was quick.. the world is smelling Russian blood


Hasn't Japan been saying that for decades? They never signed a peace treaty because they dispute those islands. Also Chechens are actually fighting for both sides of the war. Also a "super power" collapsing? Is it 1991?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

The only victims are Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and Ukrainians citizens. We keyboard warriors will be ok.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> Well North Korea, China and Russia (Putin) have threatened the whole world about nuclear nukes a few times these past 2 years.


Threatening is different from actually doing something. Not saying this will go nuclear, but if NATO intervenes, it won't go well to both sides.


blakeana said:


> no way, languages can have a common origin language
> what other words of wisdom you got for me?


No need for irony, trying to rationalize what he was trying to say by "Ukrainian being a dialect of Russian". It is false, but they do have a common origin. Not a justification for invasion, yet...


Coto said:


> Are you claiming Biden is innocent on all of this? Because didn't he literally destroy USA oil plants and instead would opt for Russian oil? Same as energy?


Did he attempt to invade Russia? Did he threat Russia in any way or form before this invasion? He didn't destroy any US oil platforms, but don't make is sound like 50% of the oil used in the US comes from Russia, it doesn't


Coto said:


> Escalation what were you saying? Or maybe... you don't want the truth on your face?


Yes, conflict escalation, or do you think Russia would happily let NATO shoot down Russian fighters out of Ukraine's skies?


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The only victims are Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and Ukrainians citizens. We keyboard warriors will be ok.


>russian soldiers
ah yes, these sick fucks that murder children and bomb everything including hospitals and schools sure are victims.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 7, 2022)

Flame said:


> £1 = 203.26 Russian Ruble
> 
> LOOOOOOOL
> 
> ...


Do mail order brides still exist? Asking for a friend..


Also @blakeana given the region you live in I was curious about a hypothetical, if your country wanted to escape the current situation with China, would your country want to jump into something like NATO to avoid Chinese conflict or would they try to remain sovereign without any course of international treaty help? I know that China has been eyeing at doing something similar to you guys for awhile now and with celebrity sock puppets bowing down to China its probably not much better support wise in the world right now.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Cantonese-speaking people understand Mandarin Chinese.
> All Ukrainians understand Russian. 2/3 speak it natively. Fighting a language war is stupid.





UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Ukrainian citizens speak Russian but not all of them speak Ukrainian. The Russian language is considered the standard, much like standard German in Austria/Switzerland or Mandarin Chinese in China (incl. Taiwan and Hong Kong).


*Guangzhou is a long way from Beijing physically, culturally and linguistically -- and hackles have been raised by reports Communist authorities are demanding local television drop Cantonese in favour of Mandarin.*

How to do you  say "Hypocrite" in Cantonese? oh you wouldn't  know would you.....


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Also @blakeana given the region you live in I was curious about a hypothetical, if your country wanted to escape the current situation with China, would your country want to jump into something like NATO to avoid Chinese conflict or would they try to remain sovereign without any course of international treaty help? I know that China has been eyeing at doing something similar to you guys for awhile now and with celebrity sock puppets bowing down to China its probably not much better support wise in the world right now.


not going to unwrap the political lore, but I will give my own perspective of conflicts in general - arm up, arm up and once again ARM UP. don't treat any treaties as something reliable, as history teaches us all the time they are worth jack shit. it's best to focus on levelling up your own assets than relying on anyone's help.

treaties can be merely symbols that you are a developed country. that's all. any reliance on them is harmful.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> *Guangzhou is a long way from Beijing physically, culturally and linguistically -- and hackles have been raised by reports Communist authorities are demanding local television drop Cantonese in favour of Mandarin.*
> 
> How to do you  say "Hypocrite" in Cantonese? oh you wouldn't  know would you.....


How does that make me a hypocrite? LOL. Do you know what the word means? I am serious, please spell out the definition and how it applies to me.


----------



## Coto (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Yes, conflict escalation, or do you think Russia would happily let NATO shoot down Russian fighters out of Ukraine's skies?


No, that's not it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Putin already declared war to Latin America back in 2015 when he was looking into supporting and financing terrorist regimes like Venezuela's President Nicolás Maduro (ask anybody around here): 


> Putin is eager to challenge GPS and the U.S. government by finding additional sites in the Western Hemisphere beyond Brazil and the Chilean coast over which to install new satellite stations.


https://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/28/why-putin-was-in-latin-america/

Thankfully back in the 70s, when, ex URSS influence reached Chile we got support from USA along our militia, and managed to get F-R-E-E-D-O-M, same thing Ukranians and allies are fighting and asking for now.  It's exactly what happened to Chile back in 11th September of 1973.

If you want your country to go soviet, *so be it.* They want to menace the world throwing nuclear bombs around? They shall as well be held responsible of war crimes.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How does that make me a hypocrite? LOL. Do you know what the word means? I am serious, please spell out the definition and how it applies to me.


you say Canto speakers are mostly, if not all of them - being also Mandarin speakers but you never say the reason - PRC bandits imposing the drop of Canto in HK media

either you're a full-on moron and propagandist or you're a pussy


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> >russian soldiers
> ah yes, these sick fucks that murder children and bomb everything including hospitals and schools sure are victims.


You bastard. UKR artillery bombards Donbass people for 8 years - where da fuck were you, uh?
Now then, UKR military placing their own citizens in schools taking them captive and using as a cover! Fuck do you know about that you retard!

Ban me over, I don't care. The level of hypocrisy and childish Yankee-hoo in this thread is just too fucking high. Screw this.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> You bastard. UKR artillery bombards Donbass for 8 years - where da fuck were you, uh?
> Now then, UKR military placing their own citizens in schools taking them captive and using as a cover! Fuck do you know about that you retard!


okay russia flag in profile you're the retarded one here


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> okay russia flag in profile you're the retarded one here


Yes, I am Russian and I will stand for my country.
Unlike you bitches.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> You bastard. UKR artillery bombards Donbass people for 8 years - where da fuck were you, uh?
> Now then, UKR military placing their own citizens in schools taking them captive and using as a cover! Fuck do you know about that you retard!
> 
> Ban me over, I don't care. The level of hypocrisy and childish Yankee-hoo in this thread is just too fucking high. Screw this.


lol guess your only watching RT ....  good.. I don't know how your going to take the fact the world is laughing at Russia military "might"


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All Ukrainian citizens speak Russian but not all of them speak Ukrainian. The Russian language is considered the standard, much like standard German in Austria/Switzerland or Mandarin Chinese in China (incl. Taiwan and Hong Kong). If during the time of British rule, Hong Kong had declared Chinese as an unwelcome language, it would have been considered an aggression.
> 
> At the border of empires (that´s what Ukraine means btw: borderland), people often rebel to create their own state, see the American revolution or the American Civil War. Imagine if in the American Civil War, the South would have tried to join an adversarial military alliance. If you want war within your new state, you do stupid stuff like this (or banning official dominant languages).


Theirs 8 million Russian speaking in Ukraine (as their primary language), most located to the Easter.

Roughy 30 million speak Ukrainian. You are literally wrong in so many regards that I don't even wanna hear you speak a word about it.

Also it's not a borderlands for "Russia" it's a borderland between multiple nations since surprise surprise! Ukraine wasn't Russian first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine#Interpretation_as_"region”_or_“territory_“

I think Ukraine should go back to their 1919 borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine#/media/File:Map_of_Ukraine_(postcard_1919).jpg


Oh and in Hong Kong you don't speak Mandarin. You speak Cantonese.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Yes, I am Russian and I will stand for my country.
> Unlike you bitches.


oh watch out


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> you say Canto speakers are mostly, if not all of them - being also Mandarin speakers but you never say the reason - PRC bandits imposing the drop of Canto in HK media
> 
> either you're a full-on moron and propagandist or you're a pussy


You are a moron for suggesting equality between lanuages. La-di-da we are all the same.
I never denied the power imbalance between languages. Russian is the dominant language when compared to Ukrainian. German compared to Dutch, etc. The fact that this dominance has been inforced does not in any way negate my point: fight the dominant language and invite trouble.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> No, that's not it. You have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Putin already declared war to Latin America years ago, and so back in the 70s, when, ex URSS influence reached Chile.
> Thankfully we got support from USA and managed to get F-R-E-E-D-O-M, same thing Ukranians and allies are fighting and asking for now.  It's exactly what happened to Chile back in 11th September of 1973.
> ...


You're making shit out of thin air, I never mentioned Latin America, you're deflecting the actual issue. 

And by the way, the US didn't bring freedom to Chile in the 70's.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You are a moron for suggesting equality between lanuages. La-di-da we are all the same.
> I never denied the power imbalance between languages. Russian is the dominant language when compared to Ukrainian. German compared to Dutch, etc. The fact that this dominance has been inforced does not in any way negate my point: fight the dominant language and invite trouble.


and their you go,, Propaganda mask off... Criticizing the exact thing CCP is doing.. BOO HOO


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Yes, I am Russian and I will stand for my country.
> Unlike you bitches.


BOOHOO fucking retard, you were the first to get tilted when someone dared to point out the russian atrocities
cry some more it looks comedic


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You are a moron for suggesting equality between lanuages. La-di-da we are all the same.
> I never denied the power imbalance between languages. Russian is the dominant language when compared to Ukrainian. German compared to Dutch, etc. The fact that this dominance has been inforced does not in any way negate my point: fight the dominant language and invite trouble.


you're not a linguist or a sociologist so please shut the fuck up when talking about something you have no idea of


----------



## Coto (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> You're making shit out of thin air, I never mentioned Latin America, you're deflecting the actual issue.
> 
> And by the way, the US didn't bring freedom to Chile in the 70's.


You're full of diarrhea anyways. Like I said, our country helped to beat ex-URSS once and it's *fact*. If you don't want to fight, go join United Nations or WHO and chain yourself as some form of protest, they're waiting there for you, tard.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Theirs 8 million Russian speaking in Ukraine (as their primary language), most located to the Easter.
> 
> Roughy 30 million speak Ukrainian. You are literally wrong in so many regards that I don't even wanna hear you speak a word about it.


Let me solve that mystery for you, Einstein.
Most Ukrainians understand Russian and Ukrainian equally well. If you consider Ukrainian a language, you can call them bilingual. The facts remain: 2/3 understand Russian on a native-speaker level.


linuxares said:


> Also it's not a borderlands for "Russia" it's a borderland between multiple nations since surprise surprise! Ukraine wasn't Russian first.


We can debate whose borders but the fact remains: it means borderlands.


linuxares said:


> Oh and in Hong Kong you don't speak Mandarin. You speak Cantonese.


People in HK grow up bilingual (and sometimes trilingual if you consider English; usually not on the same level as the other two though). So which facts am I "literally wrong about"?


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

Coto said:


> You're full of diarrhea anyways. Like I said, our country beat ex-URSS once and it's *fact*. If you don't want to fight, go join United Nations or WHO and chain yourself as some form of protest, they're waiting there for you, tard.


The fuck you're even talking about?

Want to go to war? Easy, join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion. Don't pussy out now, are you afraid?


----------



## linuxares (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Let me solve that mystery for you, Einstein.
> Most Ukrainians understand Russian and Ukrainian equally well. If you consider Ukrainian a language, you can call them bilingual. The facts remain: 2/3 understand Russian on a native-speaker level.
> 
> We can debate whose borders but the fact remains: it means borderlands.
> ...


As Primary language. I can speak 3 languages. Does that make me Norwegian as well?
Or that I can speak english? Does that make me a Brit?


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Want to go to war? Easy, join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion. Don't pussy out now, are you afraid?


ngl i've been debating doing this but they'd die from laughter and consider me unfit for the army + don't think they accept transsexed people in their army no?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> you're not a linguist or a sociologist so please shut the fuck up when talking about something you have no idea of


Actually I am a linguist. Completely irrelevant. Attack the argument, not the person. Here it is again:

"I never denied the power imbalance between languages. Russian is the dominant language when compared to Ukrainian. German compared to Dutch, etc. The fact that this dominance has been inforced does not in any way negate my point: fight the dominant language and invite trouble."

No hypocrisy on my part.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Actually I am a linguist. Completely irrelevant. Attack the argument, not the person. Here it is again:
> 
> "I never denied the power imbalance between languages. Russian is the dominant language when compared to Ukrainian. German compared to Dutch, etc. The fact that this dominance has been inforced does not in any way negate my point: fight the dominant language and invite trouble."
> 
> No hypocrisy on my part.


no you're not
and if you somehow actually have a degree or anything then i have serious doubts about the quality of your university that handed you this fucking degree

again russian is not the dominant language, ukrainian is


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 7, 2022)

Forget this asshole, he joined this forum today just to make insulting shitposts.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Forget this asshole, he joined this forum today just to make insulting shitposts.


L + no profile picture + you're russian + you fell off + fatherless


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> As Primary language. I can speak 3 languages. Does that make me Norwegian as well?
> Or that I can speak english? Does that make me a Brit?


You mean American.. lol sorry 


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Actually I am a linguist. Completely irrelevant. Attack the argument, not the person. Here it is again:
> 
> "I never denied the power imbalance between languages. Russian is the dominant language when compared to Ukrainian. German compared to Dutch, etc. The fact that this dominance has been inforced does not in any way negate my point: fight the dominant language and invite trouble."
> 
> No hypocrisy on my part.


…. Suuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeeeeees


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you consider Ukrainian a language


There is no "If", Ukrainian *is* a language, just because they share similarities (No surprise, they have the same origin), doesn't mean they are the same, nor that russian is the most dominant language in Ukraine. Going by your logic, if only 2/3 understand both russian and ukrainian, ukrainian is still the dominant language, after all, the whole population understands it, unlike russian.

A familiar example: you could say the same for portuguese and spanish, many people in Brazil understands spanish, I'd say around 2/3, that doesn't make us spanish or makes it the dominant language in Brazil, see what I mean? We can understand, doesn't mean we use it


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

blakeana said:


> no you're not
> and if you somehow actually have a degree or anything then i have serious doubts about the quality of your university that handed you this fucking degree
> 
> again russian is not the dominant language, ukrainian is


I have serious doubt you are actually transsexual. Want to share pics? I send you my degree, you send me evidence of male and female characteristics of yours. I don´t mean your female way of arguing a la "please stop" "oh i dont want to hear a word from you"

Russian is dominant in the sense of having more power and spread. Even among Ukrainian native speakers it is not uncommon to speak in Russian despite the absence of Russians. I know because I have witnessed it many times (I am not considered a Russian-speaker; I understand it somewhat and can distinguish it from Ukrainian).


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> There is no "If", Ukrainian *is* a language, just because they share similarities (No surprise, they have the same origin), doesn't mean they are the same, nor that russian is the most dominant language in Ukraine. Going by your logic, if only 2/3 understand both russian and ukrainian, ukrainian is still the dominant language, after all, the whole population understands it, unlike russian.
> 
> A familiar example: you could say the same for portuguese and spanish, many people in Brazil understands spanish, I'd say around 2/3, that doesn't make us spanish or makes it the dominant language in Brazil, see what I mean? We can understand, doesn't mean we use it


at this Point, He realized he done Fucked up   and he just talking circles,  because he Embarrassed  himself and his CCP handlers


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> at this Point, He realized he done Fucked up   and he just talking circles,  because he Embarrassed  himself and his CCP handlers


It is called CPC, not CCP.
I stand by what I said. Russian is the dominant language (compared to Ukrainian).

Russian speakers in Ukraine: 100% (2/3 on native-speaker level)
Ukrainian speakers in Ukraine: Less than the above (millions fewer)
Do Russians sometimes speak Ukrainian in the absence of Ukrainian? No.
Do Ukrainians sometimes speak Russian in the absence of Russians? Yes

Ergo Russian is dominant. You can whine about it all you want.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is called CPC, not CCP.
> I stand by what I said. Russian is the dominant language (compared to Ukrainian).
> 
> Russian speakers in Ukraine: 100% (2/3 on native-speaker level)
> ...


Funny how you just admitted that CCP is activity trying to Abolish Cantonese because the the Captial Speak Mandarin but the same situation  Ukraine is trying to enforce the language of its  choice and you condone War crimes..
man, You going off the CCP approved scripted and I don't think your handlers will like it much...
 so what your stating is that India can legal libertate Tibet ? weird thing to advocate


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 7, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Is racism against Russians going to be a problem after all this?


unlikely?
Reasoning:racism against Chinese people, was mostly popularized by trump after not walking down on well "kungflu"
if were to assume that Trump still has some sway, people wouldn't be racist to Russians due to Trump calling vlad "smart"
However, the reality of the situation is that Trump doesn't have much sway anymore, and that the focus is on Biden, so as long as Biden doesn't use some derogatory term for Russians, I believe it won't be an issue.
+ most of the media hasn't covered it as Russians wanting this, ergo, that Putin, wants this.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Russia's latest justification for the invasion of Ukraine: Stopping a war in Ukraine​





First it was Nato, Then Nazis, Then Russian being oppressed now.. the Stop hitting yourself defense


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> So tell me, why USA didn't get banned from everywhere back that days while Russia do novadays?


People were willing to believe that those responsible for 9/11 were in Afghanistan or Iraq.  Flimsy excuse or not, Russia doesn't even have that much to fall back on for its actions in Ukraine.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

lol suspect the crypto market ain’t as safe as people believe


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Funny how you just admitted that CCP is activity trying to Abolish Cantonese because the the Captial Speak Mandarin but the same situation  Ukraine is trying to enforce the language of its  choice and you condone War crimes..
> man, You going off the CCP approved scripted and I don't think your handlers will like it much...
> so what your stating is that India can legal libertate Tibet ? weird thing to advocate


The CPC is not trying to abolish Cantonese. It encourages to keep alive all kinds of languages within China.
If they force a TV station to broadcast in Mandarin (let´s say the story is true), then they are promoting the dominant language, i.e. Mandarin. So there is no hypocrisy. If HK were independent and banned Mandarin, then there would be an equivalency.

English is dominant in comparison to Chinese. There are more people on this earth whose mother tongue is Chinese, but there are more English-speaking people on this earth (including just comparing native-speaker levels). Everyone in the world understands "hello" but only part of the world understands "nihao". The Chinese people learn English, the English-speaking world does not study Chinese. China could declare war on English but this would be against their own interest. Ukrainians wanted to force the separation from Russians at all costs, while being ethnically, historically and economically tied to them by the hips. They wanted conflict and now they got it. It is not a justification. Just plain facts.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 7, 2022)

even if y'all act like a bully kid gathered forces from all of nation on the world y'all can't beat Russia
Russia Stay strong and will win the war


----------



## Xzi (Mar 7, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> even if y'all act like a bully kid gathered forces from all of nation on the world y'all can't beat Russia
> Russia Stay strong and will win the war


Oh boo hoo, the bully gets a taste of his own medicine.  And it's easy to talk about "winning" a war against your own friends and family when you're doing it vicariously.  The only way to win this war would've been to not start it in the first place.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The CPC is not trying to abolish Cantonese. It encourages to keep alive all kinds of languages within China.
> If they force a TV station to broadcast in Mandarin (let´s say the story is true), then they are promoting the dominant language, i.e. Mandarin.


So your saying Ukriane has a right to promote its dominate language…. 
So again your claiming Russia is using this a scapegoat For a “war” .. that and Nazi and the stop shooting yourself defense… ok now your flip flopping and you know your handlers don’t like that you need to be clear in your propaganda


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> even if y'all act like a bully kid gathered forces from all of nation on the world y'all can't beat Russia
> Russia Stay strong and will win the war


Lol you said “War” .. I think you forgot it’s a “ Special military operation” or it’s 15 year in the gulag, Comrade 
I’m sure all those city busses and minivans will bring glory to…toyota?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 7, 2022)

Wow reports are saying  Russia has lost at least 900 military vehicles in 11days. That’s why they  are using civilian  vehicles this week, and apparently they are setting next week shipping I was able to get a sneak peak


Man Russian….. superpower ?


----------



## chrisrlink (Mar 8, 2022)

what worries me is if putin is suppose to have cancer according to US intel Nancy said it herself before TSOTU I'd be scare of that for one one reason him causing WW3 on his deathbed plus the attacks on Polands boarder checkpoint also scare me caus he "could" (though unwise) try to take over Poland too just to get a reason to launch nukes ending us all


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 8, 2022)

You know this whole situation is out of control and political as all hell when even the mods here start screeching.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 8, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You know this whole situation is out of control and political as all hell when even the mods here start screeching.


the whole thread is just a sh*t show but its amussing  but like i stated before "Politicthreads......Politicthreads never changes"

at first i was naive to believe global politic discussion would be different then those  "we" have here in germany
but every where in the world you go the discussions are all the same (some lefist who cries,some rightwinged nut jobs whos pride got hurt,some dumbos from the "mainstream" side and the good old "alu head" uncle with cringe sciences)

but at least we can all agree the world is f*cked up beyond repair


----------



## Xzi (Mar 8, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You know this whole situation is out of control and political as all hell when even the mods here start screeching.


Imagine that, the vast majority of people agree that dictators deciding unilaterally to invade another sovereign nation is a bad thing.  The Republican party attached itself to Putin as their own twisted idea of the perfect leader more than a decade ago, so it was political long before Ukraine.  That doesn't mean you had/have to follow them down that idiotic rabbit hole, ruthless power-hungry oligarchs like Putin always drop the mask eventually.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is called CPC, not CCP.


bro, you dont know Chinese huh?
中國 - China
共產- communist
黨 - party


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I have serious doubt you are actually transsexual. Want to share pics? I send you my degree, you send me evidence of male and female characteristics of yours. I don´t mean your female way of arguing a la "please stop" "oh i dont want to hear a word from you"


how the fuck does me being a troon relate to the topic at all? you're now looking for anything to catch on because you ran out of arguments.
not the first day PRC-"Chinese" get into politics and have the most retarded takes in the club


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 8, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Imagine that, the vast majority of people agree that dictators deciding unilaterally to invade another sovereign nation is a bad thing.  The Republican party attached itself to Putin as their own twisted idea of the perfect leader more than a decade ago, so it was political long before Ukraine.  That doesn't mean you had/have to follow them down that idiotic rabbit hole, ruthless power-hungry oligarchs like Putin always drop the mask eventually.


For the record to clarify, as I've said before, I do not support Putin nor of his invasion of Ukraine. I just post what I've observed is all. And I never did like Putin, like at all. I always thought he was kind of a strong leader, but just because I might've respected him doesn't mean I ever liked that two-faced fucker.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 8, 2022)

i do support putin because ukraine and russia is like family, family fight is normal but eventually they support each other when the root of the problem is solved


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i do support putin because ukraine and russia is like family, family fight is normal but eventually they support each other when the root of the problem is solved


no they're not family, stop speaking like a typical imperialist retard.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 8, 2022)

just give russia what they need and release the sanction so we can eat bread, and fill the fuel cheaper like before


----------



## Xzi (Mar 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i do support putin because ukraine and russia is like family, family fight is normal but eventually they support each other when the root of the problem is solved


"Family fight," like it's cousins with pillows and not the ruthless slaughter of Ukrainian civilians.  This fuckin' guy.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 8, 2022)

Xzi said:


> "Family fight," like it's cousins with pillows and not the ruthless slaughter of Ukrainian civilians.  This fuckin' guy.


they do have pillow fight 8 years ago through diplomacy but then when the US president change the matter just lost of control it is like a devil who whisper to the other family member to start join the Bully Club to get their protection so as a sane brother he help his younger siblings to regain his sanity not to join the club

lol civilian fully armed with the US arsenal and we stand still against the incoming attack
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/27/us-weapons-ukraine/6964212001/?gnt-cfr=1

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/europe/100000008227906/ukraine-civilians-military-video.html
that not civilians but it is a mercenary


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i do support putin because ukraine and russia is like family, family fight


Wait
What.
No like actually.
*what*
last time I checked, family members don't shoot each other, or attempt to *forcefully enslave the other*
like seriously. I don't remember my brother trying to take my entire bedroom while welding a gun at my head, telling me that I have to obey him. Otherwise he'll either shoot me or shoot my best friend.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 8, 2022)

And if that is somehow what your family does. Dump them. They are not family. Family is people who you can rely on, and trust in knowing they will not hurt you. Not blood or country related.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> that not civilians but it is a mercenary


Mercenaries get paid, these are literally volunteers.  Putin pissed off pretty much the entire world, it shouldn't be surprising there are repercussions to that.

And it doesn't change the fact that the Russian military does have orders to target civilians.  They're clearly too weak to fight an opposing military even a fraction of the size.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> they do have pillow fight 8 years ago through diplomacy but then when the US president change the matter just lost of control it is like a devil who whisper to the other family member to start join the Bully Club to get their protection so as a sane brother he help his younger siblings to regain his sanity not to join the club
> 
> lol civilian fully armed with the US arsenal and we stand still against the incoming attack
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/27/us-weapons-ukraine/6964212001/?gnt-cfr=1
> ...



Ah yes, when Ruissa invades Ukraine. Don't blame Ruissia for invading. Blame the united states for backing up the country being invaded.
What's next? Your going to tell me that the person being physically bullied should get into trouble when the teachers don't listen, so a friend gets involved to back him up? Is that the logic we're deploying here?


----------



## Jayro (Mar 8, 2022)

As soon as the first Russuan soldier's foot touched Ukrainian soil, Ukraine should have unloaded everything they had on 'em. Not sure why they're taking this lying down...


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

Jayro said:


> As soon as the first Russuan soldier's foot touched Ukrainian soil, Ukraine should have unloaded everything they had on 'em. Not sure why they're taking this lying down...


lmao, implying Ukraine isn't doing anything is just flat out lying about the situation. get your head outta your ass.


----------



## Jayro (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> lmao, implying Ukraine isn't doing anything is just flat out lying about the situation. get your head outta your ass.


They were late to respond to the situation, and now they're in deep shit. So they could have done better.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> bro, you dont know Chinese huh?
> 中國 - China
> 共產- communist
> 黨 - party


Does that sound like English to you? The official translation is "Communist Party of China".
"Chinese" can mean many things (e.g. the restaurant around your bloc), but "of China" defines the party within China. Look up official documents. The entity or person in question decides how something is translated into another language. Similar to how you like to define your own sexuality. I´m sure you understand.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Does that sound like English to you? The official translation is "Communist Party of China".
> "Chinese" can mean many things (e.g. the restaurant around your bloc), but "of China" defines the party within China. Look up official documents. The entity or person in question decides how something is translated into another language. Similar to how you like to define your own sexuality. I´m sure you understand.


your silly scrimblo bimbo regime is CCP in English, not CPC. no matter how much you will stop and cry. or are you afraid CCP means the bandit mafia is less legitimate than if you call it CPC?


Jayro said:


> They were late to respond to the situation, and now they're in deep shit. So they could have done better.


"they should do this or that" wow you're a combat expert all of a sudden... bet the Ukrainian army would LOVE to have you in the ranks.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> your silly scrimblo bimbo regime is CCP in English, not CPC. no matter how much you will stop and cry. or are you afraid CCP means the bandit mafia is less legitimate than if you call it CPC?


Wikipedia says the official name is CPC. Chinese official websites also speak of the CPC.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Wikipedia says the official name is CPC. Chinese official websites also speak of the CPC.


CCP not CPC, plus your regime is illegitimate anyways, so why should anyone sane care about your silly semantics?


----------



## Natural (Mar 8, 2022)

Man how come people never get like this when war happens in other places in the world?


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 8, 2022)

Jayro said:


> As soon as the first Russuan soldier's foot touched Ukrainian soil, Ukraine should have unloaded everything they had on 'em. Not sure why they're taking this lying down...


They fight on the budget, so they wait donation from the west nation, even patreon, news papers, online mmorpg make open donation to help ukraine, like a tiktok celeb use their popularity to get a macbook endorsement for free



Natural said:


> Man how come people never get like this when war happens in other places in the world?


not everyone love peace bro, there are people use the war to gain wealth, power, influence


----------



## Tomato123 (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> CCP not CPC, plus your regime is illegitimate anyways, so why should anyone sane care about your silly semantics?


Technically it is CPC but it means the same thing so does it even matter if you call it CCP?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> CCP not CPC, plus your regime is illegitimate anyways, so why should anyone sane care about your silly semantics?


Wikipedia, the Chinese government and I against you. But okay. If you think you are transsexual, then I guess you are. It is your truth.

The Chinese government is not mine. I do not have a colonialist mindset. Therefore, I do not wish to overthrow foreign governments or change other cultures.


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 8, 2022)

Natural said:


> Man how come people never get like this when war happens in other places in the world?



It is called selective commotion.
This (not entirely accurate, since a lot of the yellow is actually green and some of the green is actually yellow) map gives you a rough idea:






This war in particular is "blowing up" because of the escalation potential of becoming WW3/nuclear. That's it.
If Russia wasn't involved, no one would care, just like almost no one has been caring about Syria or Iemen in the last 5 years.

Zelensky is also baiting his citizens and other countries into the war, so it's only expected to have civilian casualties when they are fighting back as well. To make it clear: this is *not a justification for Russian war crimes*, but both sides are in the wrong here, even if Putin is waaay more wrong for starting this shitshow and I hope this aggression stops ASAP.

Like I said way back then, it should have been resolved with diplomacy first and foremost.
War should have been the last resort, considering the given excuses for the "military action".

Putin should have the balls to actually say what he means: he wants Ukraine back in Russia('s control). That's it.


----------



## Flame (Mar 8, 2022)

AlexMCS said:


> It is called selective commotion.
> This (not entirely accurate, since a lot of the yellow is actually green and some of the green is actually yellow) map gives you a rough idea:
> 
> 
> ...



i agree with some points of yours. but who created that map? South America thinks too highly of itself. we need South America for oxygen. yes.




Spoiler



 im joking of course.


----------



## Coto (Mar 8, 2022)

Flame said:


> i agree with some points of yours. but who created that map? South America thinks too highly of itself. we need South America for oxygen. yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, whoever designed that must be truly butthurt of South America / Latin America lol


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Wikipedia, the Chinese government and I against you. But okay. If you think you are transsexual, then I guess you are. It is your truth.
> 
> The Chinese government is not mine. I do not have a colonialist mindset. Therefore, I do not wish to overthrow foreign governments or change other cultures.


again why the fuck are you bringing transsexuality into the discourse? it has no relation to retards like you speaking bullshit, because reading 2 articles on WSJ makes them a combat/geopolitics expert all of a sudden.

go touch grass you fucking loser.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

Yup this is the Turning point...
Either
1. Russia back down and collapses because the economy  is so far gone and begs the world to comeback
2. Russia does not back down, collapses because the world has shun them
3. Russia starts ww3 and when it loses gets divided (like Germany east and west)  between Poland, China and the USA


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

djpannda said:


> 3. Russia starts ww3 and when it loses gets divided (like Germany) between Poland, China and the USA


Germany was divided into two "states" - East Germany and West Germany... what you wanted to say is that (ironically) it got divided like Poland.
by that do you mean the complete existence of a Russian state to cease (the countries you mentioned would take their territories) or dividing one Russian state into several smaller ones (with obvious influence like GER did?)

either way, i do not believe in Poland ever taking any of the Russian territories. they're clearly _not_ a superpower nor do they have the aspirations to do so. i'd sooner believe in someone who actually has disputes with RU, like Japan.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> Germany was divided into two "states" - East Germany and West Germany... what you wanted to say is that (ironically) it got divided like Poland.
> by that do you mean the complete existence of a Russian state to cease (the countries you mentioned would take their territories) or dividing one Russian state into several smaller ones (with obvious influence like GER did?)
> 
> either way, i do not believe in Poland ever taking any of the Russian territories. they're clearly _not_ a superpower nor do they have the aspirations to do so. i'd sooner believe in someone who actually has disputes with RU, like Japan.


I mean Russia will should be spilt like Germany after the WWII, and although not a superPower Poland has been not only in the forefront but accepting the Brunt of the Risk unto this point.
I don't mean Russia will be official broken but section will be governed by the select "peacekeeping force"

I don't think Japan should not bear that responsibility 1) as china will have a hissy fit. 2) the fact that they have claim to actual Russian occupied land, its a definite conflict of interest


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I mean Russia will should be spilt like Germany after the WWII, and although not a superPower Poland has been not only in the forefront but accepting the Brunt of the Risk unto this point.
> I don't mean Russia will be official broken but section will be governed by the select "peacekeeping force"
> 
> I don't think Japan should not bear that responsibility 1) as china will have a hissy fit. 2) the fact that they have claim to actually Russian occupied land, its a definite conflict of interest


again as someone who has more insight into Poland's ways re: this war than an average GBATemp user I can tell you they're not keen on firing the first shot or taking their land. they're mostly about defending their own ass.

also Japan being part of this peacekeeping force makes more sense to me regardless of PRC throwing hissy fits (like they always do in their red kindergarten) - more influence and getting their land back 
although i see where are you coming from with the "they don't want the responsibility" part. but let's not deny the fact they might be more eligible for this sabre-rattling.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> again as someone who has more insight into Poland's ways re: this war than an average GBATemp user I can tell you they're not keen on firing the first shot or taking their land. they're mostly about defending their own ass.
> 
> also Japan being part of this peacekeeping force makes more sense to me regardless of PRC throwing hissy fits (like they always do in their red kindergarten) - more influence and getting their land back
> although i see where are you coming from with the "they don't want the responsibility" part. but let's not deny the fact they might be more eligible for this sabre-rattling.


its not that "Japan does not not want". I don't think they should. having an occupying "peace keeping force" officially taking over Disputed lands is the Reason Crimea has started this F$CKFEST. Japan will get the occupied land back but having them look over  other part will create worst Resentment with the local pop.

Altough we we all have distain for CCP, keeping them at least not Hostile is the key to make this plan work.
Give them Importance by giving them a part of Russia to oversee, not only encourages them NOT to fight but to keep Modern world working afterward...
 just Suggesting Poland as they need to be recognized for the early Contribution. but any major Country that will not try to "Take over land" can be considered


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Give then Importance by giving them a part of Russia to oversee, not only encourages them NOT to fight but to keep Modern world working afterward...


do you realize how stupid that idea is?
give a power-hungry monster a finger and it will eat the entire hand - they will soon want Taiwan (which they claim to be part of their silly red kindergarten ), then maybe get some land here and there

it's going to feed another superpower monstrosity that will fuck the entire world back and forth. and we don't need any more shitlords like that.


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 8, 2022)

Flame said:


> i agree with some points of yours. but who created that map? South America thinks too highly of itself. we need South America for oxygen. yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know. Like I said, it's not totally accurate. Whoever made it clearly overestimated how the world views the Latin America.
Curiously enough, the Red regions were the only ones mentioned for a long time when it comes to gaming (US/NA, EU, JP)


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

blakeana said:


> do you realize how stupid that idea is?
> give a power-hungry monster a finger and it will eat the entire hand - they will soon want Taiwan (which they claim to be part of their silly red kindergarten ), then maybe get some land here and there
> 
> it's going to feed another superpower monstrosity that will fuck the entire world back and forth. and we don't need any more shitlords like that.


nah china has so much to gain if they get to control parts of Russia.. if CCP gets in a war with the world, Chinese bank will never get back the Billions it has loaned out....beside after the Collapse of Russia China is going in a Purchase most of Russian assets... like China is doing in South American.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

djpannda said:


> nah china has so much to gain if they get to control parts of Russia.. if CCP gets in a war with the world, Chinese bank will never get back the Billions it has loaned out....beside after the Collapse of Russia China is going in a Purchase most of Russian assets... like China is doing in South American.


on a sidenote... love the CCP stans bark at USA for exploiting the poor countries but turn around and you see these red fuckers debt-trapping Africa


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 8, 2022)

Can't help, but think of the irony of Ukraine buying/getting part of Russia.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 8, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Can't help, but think of the irony of Ukraine buying/getting part of Russia.


it's literally uno reverse card


----------



## Dranter (Mar 8, 2022)

Anyone heard anything about krikzz? His city got the short end of the stick apparently. Sad stuff


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

Dranter said:


> Anyone heard anything about krikzz? His city got the short end of the stick apparently. Sad stuff


Holy shit, I forget his based on Ukriane... THAT alone should be the reason Gbatemp takes a stand against Russian War crimes.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

FUCK PUTIN


----------



## Glyptofane (Mar 8, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> I find it funny how people that don't know anything want NATO to put a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
> I'm sure NATO pilots shooting Russian ones will not lead to full-scale war.
> 
> Ukraine should be supported with aid and stuff but they are not worth a thermonuclear war over especially since they are not even a NATO member


Ukraine is not worth finishing off the limping global economy over either, but that's apparently the plan (or just a happy accident?). 

It's truly peak, privileged decadence to virtue signal with idiotic calls for intervention over this when so many of our own people are still struggling or already completely ruined from the previous manufactured crisis.


----------



## Citizen_404 (Mar 8, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> It's truly peak, privileged decadence to virtue signal with idiotic calls for intervention over this when so many of our own people are still struggling or already completely ruined from the previous manufactured crisis.


Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-- Ben Franklin, 1759
https://foundersquotes.com/founding...iberty-to-purchase-a-little-temporary-safety/

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
-- Thomas Jefferson
https://www.monticello.org/site/res...erous-freedom-over-peaceful-slavery-quotation

Sadly, I think people have forgotten how much we have benefited from freedom and democracy. We've grown fairly fat, dumb and happy in the US. I believe the situation in Ukraine should remind us how much is at risk, and how much we risk losing if a democratically elected government and freedom-loving people lose to a totalitarian dictator running the world's largest kleptocracy.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 8, 2022)

Krikzz was from the Sumy region right? 
Huge wave of refugees firom  Sumy left tonight.
Hope he's ok


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 8, 2022)

The simpsons already predict a thing


----------



## pustal (Mar 8, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Do mail order brides still exist? Asking for a friend..



Idk, but a recent ex-world leader tried to bring it back in fashion for a while. But it was more than he could handle and decided rather to to pay premium for a pornstar.



KuntilanakMerah said:


> i do support putin because ukraine and russia is like family, family fight is normal but eventually they support each other when the root of the problem is solved



So you are like that abusive ex-husband that discovers that the ex-wife found somebody new and decides to kill her. You think that she'll see the light while you beat her into submission but let me tell you, this path you're on only leads to murder-suicide or putting yourself on death row.
_________________________________________________

For anyone interested in a decent military analysis of the current conflict:


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 9, 2022)

Idk if it was said, but they sanctioned Russian oil.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/07/ukraine-destroying-evidence-of-us-funded-bioweapons/

https://strangesounds.org/2022/02/u...documents-from-the-website-here-they-are.html

Happy explaining, dear US.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 9, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/07/ukraine-destroying-evidence-of-us-funded-bioweapons/
> 
> https://strangesounds.org/2022/02/u...documents-from-the-website-here-they-are.html
> 
> Happy explaining, dear US.









just jokin but those sites arent the trustworthies source to take serious


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

rantex92 said:


> just jokin but those sites arent the trustworthies source to take serious


Well, to be fair, the bar for what counts as a legitimate news source on this site is pretty dang low to begin with.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Well, to be fair, the bar for what counts as a legitimate news source on this site is pretty dang low to begin with.


the truth is you cant trust any source from anywhere in the world

its always controlled by someone or something who financed that media to push their respected views and agenda

news,socialmedia,blogs,influencers etc you name it  are just propaganda tools


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

rantex92 said:


> just jokin but those sites arent the trustworthies source to take serious


USA have a history of wiping out whole countries and executing their leaders using fake news as an excuse, so it's ok.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 9, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> USA have a history of wiping out whole countries and executing their leaders using fake news as an excuse, so it's ok.


thats kinda their thing since about 100 years but when you have an economy simply running on war youre always looking for the next "confrontation" and sometimes there isnt someone who wants to be invaded so something has to be made up


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The US isn't starting this fight, nor would we be involved with it directly.
> 
> 
> I sincerely have no idea what you're talking about.  Are you suggesting Ukraine has done anything to deserve these hostilities?  Because they most certainly have not.  This is about as black and white as scenarios get when it comes to geopolitics.


NATO wants missiles on the Ukranian border. Putin told them to stop. And they didnt.

"Putin laid out a series of bold security demands that would not only stop NATO’s expansion to the east but push it back, viewing the drift of former Communist countries and Soviet republics into Washington’s orbit as an existential threat to Russia. Though there was some dialogue on lower-level issues, the central demands were deemed nonstarters by the U.S. and its NATO allies."

You're bad at Civilization


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> NATO wants missiles on the Ukranian border. Putin told them to stop. And they didnt.


Fuck off Putin apologist.  Did NATO bomb Russia or did Russia bomb Ukraine?  Rhetorical question of course, we all know the answer to that.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

Ukraine have bombed Donbass, Donetsk and Lugansk through these 8 years, killing dozens of civilians, so yes, their fight squadrons totally deserve this. Civilian casualities is a bad thing though.


----------



## AstralVoodoo (Mar 9, 2022)

Are you have any proof, or you russian tv zombie or just you putin trollbot?


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Ukraine have bombed Donbass, Donetsk and Lugansk through these 8 years, killing dozens of civilians, so yes, their fight squadrons totally deserve this. Civilian casualities is a bad thing though.


They were fighting Russian imperialism then, and they're fighting Russian imperialism now.  The only thing they deserve is unlimited success in their campaign against a dictator and war criminal.

Putin bombed Russian civilians in a false flag attack to get where he is now, never forget that.


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 9, 2022)

I like how people think he wouldn't have done this eventually, even if NATO didn't exist at all.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They were fighting Russian imperialism then, and they're fighting Russian imperialism now.  The only thing they deserve is unlimited success in their campaign against a dictator and war criminal.
> 
> Putin bombed Russian civilians in a false flag attack to get where he is now, never forget that.


They bombed civilian cities then and now, not regular army or Imperialism.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

AstralVoodoo said:


> Are you have any proof, or you russian tv zombie or just you putin trollbot?


Well yes


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

Translation is correct, have my word on that.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> They bombed civilian cities then and now, not regular army or Imperialism.


Nah sounds like more of Putin's false flag bullshit.  He's been playing these games with peoples' lives ever since he was in the KGB.  Only things he truly cares about are money and power, that should've been obvious the second he declared himself dictator for life.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)




----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BTW, we may not be seeing you much after March 11, Dark Ronin, as that's when Russia plans to 'disconnect from the global internet.'

Online propaganda getting too much push-back from the rest of the world, it would seem.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)




----------



## Dranter (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Nah sounds like more of Putin's false flag bullshit.  He's been playing these games with peoples' lives ever since he was in the KGB.  Only things he truly cares about are money and power, that should've been obvious the second he declared himself dictator for life.


Likely civilians did die. Likely children did die. Are they nazi-style nationalists in Ukraine? - yes. Why were they legitimised though? - 2014 when Crimea was taken, Donbas and Lughansk region thought they can try the same. However Crimea was much more strategic (is) to Russia than those regions and the two probably weren't being planned on being annexed. Population went for it though and tried seceding. As any normal country would do when a bunch of people try that they went to war / fighting. Civilians die *for sure. *The Above battalion (Nazis according to Russia) were legitimised in the regular army back then because the regular Ukrainian army was MEGA unprepared for any sort of military action. It was an inevitable course of action, which gave cannon fodder to Russian propaganda. Currently both sides can in theory claim they are 'right' and can justify their actions in a way. Who started first however - personal opinion is Russia with Crimea taking advantage of a disorganised country back during the Maidan days. To me it was absurd that any country can steal territory IN EUROPE in 2014. Truth is these are brotherly nations with similar history and culture. Its and absolute SHAME what is happening. Its 2022... we should be above this sh*t as a species. History however proves once again to be cyclical and people to repeat their mistakes. This region will simmer for years to come. What's even scarier is the prospect of the whole civilised world being dragged into a war. For me specifically as im very close to this region. (one country border away from Ukraine and I see actual refugees on the streets. I haven't seen them walking in columns piss poor or anything, they actually come in expensive cars but obviously not all and regardless their lives are a mess)


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


>



Wasn't 2014 around the same time that Putin declared himself god-king of Russia for life?  Bet this made for an awfully convenient excuse.  And remind me again, how many dozens of false flags did Putin stage before his invasion of Ukraine that nobody fell for?


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Dranter said:


> Likely civilians did die. Likely children did die. Are they nazi-style nationalists in Ukraine? - yes.


True, there are nazi-style nationalists just about anywhere you go, and I can't rule out the possibility that they were solely responsible for those crimes.  At the same time, I can't rule out the possibility that they were hired by Putin, either.  After all, he does have a lot of nazi-style nationalists in the Russian military, as they're the most likely to follow criminal orders such as targeting civilians.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 9, 2022)

Absolutely stunning that the partition of Russia was discussed a few pages back.
Maybe I need to explain it in gaming terms: remember the martyrdom perk in Call of Duty? Russia has one that takes all of our lives. If you are that reckless with your life, follow Zelensky and pick up a rifle. But please don´t drag the world into this. I want to experience BOTW2 and Smash Ultimate Ultimate.


----------



## Dranter (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> True, there are nazi-style nationalists just about anywhere you go, and I can't rule out the possibility that they were solely responsible for those crimes.  At the same time, I can't rule out the possibility that they were hired by Putin, either.  After all, he does have a lot of nazi-style nationalists in the Russian military, as they're the most likely to follow criminal orders such as targeting civilians.


They are called the AzovBatallion. Google them. Some of them are very hardline. EXTREMELY unlikely that they were hired by Putin. They are very Ukraine Nationalistic and anti-russia. The issue is they were legitimised by being absorbed into regular army. If you are US and anti-trump imagine proud boys being their own actual unit in the army. Similar to that. This is propaganda fodder for Russia but was an inevitable move. 

Crimes are exaggerated. Back then and now. But people and children have died for sure. But that's what happens when you arm yourself and declare your own country I guess.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Absolutely stunning that the partition of Russia was discussed a few pages back.
> Maybe I need to explain it in gaming terms: remember the martyrdom perk in Call of Duty? Russia has one that takes all of our lives. If you are that reckless with your life, follow Zelensky and pick up a rifle. But please don´t drag the world into this. I want to experience BOTW2 and Smash Ultimate Ultimate.


Mutually assured destruction holds, otherwise we'd all be dead already.  Besides, with how poorly the rest of Russia's military equipment has apparently been maintained, it wouldn't surprise me if at least half of their nukes are non-functional.  The rest would likely be easy to sabotage in case of real emergency (Putin's cheese slides all the way off his cracker, so to speak).


----------



## Dranter (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Mutually assured destruction holds, otherwise we'd all be dead already.  Besides, with how poorly the rest of Russia's military equipment has apparently been maintained, it wouldn't surprise me if at least half of their nukes are non-functional.  The rest would likely be easy to sabotage in case of real emergency (Putin's cheese slides all the way off his cracker, so to speak).


Russia is being tactical in this war. This is not them all out I think. They are withholding some equipment and manpower. What I also think though is that they thought they would be much quicker and encounter less resistance. Modern urban warfare in a fairly developed country with modern expensive equipment (javelins etc) is unpredictable.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Dranter said:


> Russia is being tactical in this war. This is not them all out I think. They are withholding some equipment and manpower. What I also think though is that they thought they would be much quicker and encounter less resistance. Modern urban warfare in a fairly developed country with modern expensive equipment (javelins etc) is unpredictable.


They have a 40-mile long convoy that is/was heading toward Kyiv, so I'd say they're throwing quite a lot at this.  More than they thought they'd need to, certainly.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Mutually assured destruction holds,


Yes, that includes our destruction. Even at the event of a Russian defeat. People like you are dangerous and should hold no political power whatsoever. You want to bet on malfunctioning missiles? If you are that suicidal, play Russian roulette and leave the rest of us out of it. Thanks.


----------



## Coto (Mar 9, 2022)

And that's why choosing Socialists (in name or spirit) in the government, specifically running as President is always a bad idea.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Yes, that includes our destruction. Even at the event of a Russian defeat. People like you are dangerous and should hold no political power whatsoever. You want to bet on malfunctioning missiles? If you are that suicidal, play Russian roulette and leave the rest of us out of it. Thanks.


No you idiot, that means Russia cannot launch a nuke so long as Putin at least cares about his own life.  If he no longer cares about even that, then we take steps to mitigate the possible end of the world.  Which includes sabotage, but we also have systems for shooting down missiles/nukes, especially Soviet-era ones.

Nobody can be held responsible for Putin's mental state except Putin.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Coto said:


> And that's why choosing Socialists in the government, specifically running as President is always a bad idea.



LMAO @ calling Joe fucking Biden a socialist.  I don't like that he rejected the idea, but the other option last election cycle was Donald "Putin's bitch" Trump, who would've gifted Ukraine to Russia outright.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> LMAO @ calling Joe fucking Biden a socialist.  I don't like that he rejected the idea, but the other option last election cycle was Donald "Putin's bitch" Trump, who would've gifted Ukraine to Russia outright.


Funny how Donald Trump could've easily "gifted" Ukraine to Russia during his 4 years but never did, only now that he's not in office Putin decides to invade. I guess if Trump would've gotten a second term he would've handed over Ukraine? The world may never know.


----------



## Dranter (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Funny how Donald Trump could've easily "gifted" Ukraine to Russia during his 4 years but never did, only now that he's not in office Putin decides to invade. I guess if Trump would've gotten a second term he would've handed over Ukraine? The world may never know.


I strongly disagree about Trump. As soon as Biden won I was 100% sure there would be escalation with Russia somehow. Shame that it turned into a war. The guy has been living through the Cold War his whole life. Russia to him is very much THE ENEMY. Trump was more proactive and open on Russia which can be discussed whether good or bad but I doubt if Trump won this would have happened. Trump saw China as the real enemy and personally rightfully so. Russians are after all much closer culturally and historically to the west.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Funny how Donald Trump could've easily "gifted" Ukraine to Russia during his 4 years but never did, only now that he's not in office Putin decides to invade. I guess if Trump would've gotten a second term he would've handed over Ukraine? The world may never know.


Have you already forgotten what Trump's first impeachment was about?  Something something "perfect call" to Ukraine?

The world already knows.  Hell, Trump recently called Putin a "genius" for invading Ukraine.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Have you already forgotten what Trump's first impeachment was about?  Something something "perfect call" to Ukraine?
> 
> The world already knows.  Hell, Trump recently called Putin a "genius" for invading Ukraine.


You mean the BS call with nothing substantial? Yes, I might've recalled something like that.

And he called Putin a genius for invading since we got potato head Biden into office who isn't doing jack shit right now. Invade when you know you're enemies are at their weakest.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

Dranter said:


> Trump was more proactive and open on Russia which can be discussed whether good or bad but I doubt if Trump won this would have happened. Trump saw China as the real enemy and personally rightfully so. Russians are after all much closer culturally and historically to the west.


Russia and China are aligned on this because Russia wants Ukraine (and possibly other former USSR territory), while China wants Taiwan and other territory.  The only thing that would be different is Trump would be supporting Putin's claim to Ukraine, fracturing the West's support.  So yeah, I suppose the invasion might've gone quicker, but it would be no less of a war crime and no less atrocious.


----------



## Dranter (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You mean the BS call with nothing substantial? Yes, I might've recalled something like that.
> 
> And he called Putin a genius for invading since we got potato head Biden into office who isn't doing jack shit right now. Invade when you know you're enemies are at their weakest.


Putin is an absolute genius on Crimea. This was an absolutely bloodless and brilliantly organised annexation. Fake referendum and all. You cannot ignore this fact. This is what he refers to genius I believe. Donbas and Lughansk were just a bunch of local opportunists.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You mean the BS call with nothing substantial? Yes, I might've recalled something like that.


Seems pretty goddamn substantial now.  



BitMasterPlus said:


> And he called Putin a genius for invading since we got potato head Biden into office who isn't doing jack shit right now. Invade when you know you're enemies are at their weakest.


Nah he called Putin a genius because he's always been Putin's little bitch.  Don Jr gave up the game long ago when he was quoted as saying, "we have all the funding we need out of Russia."


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Seems pretty goddamn substantial now, smooth-brain.
> 
> 
> Nah he called Putin a genius because he's always been Putin's little bitch.  Don Jr gave up the game long ago when he was quoted as saying, "we have all the funding we need out of Russia."


Oh really? Whose son was on a Ukraine energy board with zero experience yet making millions of dollars per year because his daddy was the VP and strong armed anyone who decided to go against him, and also had sex with underage hookers and smoked cheese he thought was crack? Was that Trump's son or Hunter Biden? It was Trump's son for sure.


----------



## Coto (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> LMAO @ calling Joe fucking Biden a socialist.  I don't like that he rejected the idea, but the other option last election cycle was Donald "Putin's bitch" Trump, who would've gifted Ukraine to Russia outright.


Yeah I know. If Trump was supporting Putin right now, I would have given him the middle finger as well. 

Thing is, right now, _USA was a major ally in WWII and socialists are slowly destroying that legacy now._


----------



## ital (Mar 9, 2022)

Remember kids:







After all anyone who disagrees with you must be an idiot and the best thing to do is disregard them and their viewpoint entirely without considering why it makes you feel that way, amirite?


----------



## Dranter (Mar 9, 2022)

ital said:


> Remember kids:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh really? Whose son was on a Ukraine energy board with zero experience yet making millions of dollars per year because his daddy was the VP and strong armed anyone who decided to go against him? Was that Trump's son or Hunter Biden? It was Trump's son for sure.


Pretty sure both of them have received plenty of money they didn't earn through the private sector.  The issue here is that, at least since about 2010, the Trumps' fortune has largely been coming from Putin's pool of blood money.  Faced with those chickens coming home to roost now with current events, he's doubled down, proving definitively that he's subhuman scum.



Coto said:


> Yeah I know. If Trump was supporting Putin right now, I would have given him the middle finger as well.


Clearly you haven't been keeping up with the conversation.  Trump _has_ recently voiced support for Putin.


----------



## ital (Mar 9, 2022)

Dranter said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No you idiot, that means Russia cannot launch a nuke so long as Putin at least cares about his own life.  If he no longer cares about even that, then we take steps to mitigate the possible end of the world.  Which includes sabotage, but we also have systems for shooting down missiles/nukes, especially Soviet-era ones.
> 
> Nobody can be held responsible for Putin's mental state except Putin.


You idiots talked about what should happen with Russia after WW3. After WW3 there is no Europe. Even if Russia loses, there is no Europe. You cannot intercept that many nukes. Every single military expert will tell you that. Unless you find a new tech that destroys them all. At the current state, even at a successfull first strike at Moscow and no more Russian leadership, Europe will be completely wiped out.

In a (Carl Gustav) Jung-nian manner you are projecting your own insane blood lust onto your enemy.


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 9, 2022)

Thank God the US isn't falling for the UKR bait into this shit show.
Like I said, an assassin (for either side) could have resolved this weeks ago, but this all seems more fabricated (at the top echelon) the more this goes on, at the expense of the common people


----------



## pustal (Mar 9, 2022)

Coto said:


> And that's why choosing Socialists (in name or spirit) in the government, specifically running as President is always a bad idea.



None of the countries involved are socialist o have a socialist governing party...

USA: liberal / neo-liberal

Poland: national-conservative

Ukraine: based on geostrategy and not traditional political ideology, populist party in charge though

Russia: conservative / statist
_________________________________________________

South Park figured out Putin on his one:


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You idiots talked about what should happen with Russia after WW3. After WW3 there is no Europe. Even if Russia loses, there is no Europe. You cannot intercept that many nukes. Every single military expert will tell you that. Unless you find a new tech that destroys them all. At the current state, even at a successfull first strike at Moscow and no more Russian leadership, Europe will be completely wiped out.
> 
> In a (Carl Gustav) Jung-nian manner you are projecting your own insane blood lust onto your enemy.


I don't believe I've once mentioned WW3 in this thread, take it up with someone who has.  And again, it's obvious that if anyone were to spark such a massive conflict, it'd be someone mentally unstable like Putin, who is currently slaughtering civilians in Ukraine.  Unprovoked too, not that that should matter.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Pretty sure both of them have received plenty of money they didn't earn through the private sector.  The issue here is that, at least since about 2010, the Trumps' fortune has largely been coming from Putin's pool of blood money.  Faced with those chickens coming home to roost now with current events, he's doubled down, proving definitively that he's subhuman scum.
> 
> 
> Clearly you haven't been keeping up with the conversation.  Trump _has_ recently voiced support for Putin.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> View attachment 301023


See the issue with a reaction gif to something that's more than a sentence long is that I have no idea which part it's reacting to.  I just have to assume this is your reaction when you realized you've been a pawn of exploitative oligarchical geopolitics by supporting Donald Trump this entire time.

Joe Biden does not represent me or my political interests, and if his son did something criminal, I say he should be charged.  I _know_ Donald Trump and his entire family are criminals, and I _know_ they should be charged. Whether they ultimately are or not is a different matter.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> See the issue with a reaction gif to something that's more than a sentence long is that I have no idea which part it's reacting to.  I just have to assume this is your reaction when you realized you've been a pawn of exploitative oligarchical geopolitics by supporting Donald Trump this entire time.
> 
> Joe Biden does not represent me or my political interests, and if his son did something criminal, I say he should be charged.  I _know_ Donald Trump and his entire family are criminals, and I _know_ they should be charged. Whether they ultimately are or not is a different matter.


Mostly reacting at this point there's nothing I can say that can break people out of their delusions and the programming they've been fed up to this point.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Mostly reacting at this point there's nothing I can say that can break people out of their delusions and the programming they've been fed up to this point.


If you disagree with the concept that all oligarchs (billionaires) have done/will do evil shit to gain and maintain wealth and power, then you're the only NPC in this thread.  Trump once was one of them but lost too much of his daddy's money on stupid business ventures, so he just became a pawn to other actual power brokers instead.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If you disagree with the concept that all oligarchs (billionaires) have done/will do evil shit to gain and maintain wealth and power, then you're the only NPC in this thread.  Trump once was one of them but lost too much of his daddy's money on stupid business ventures, so he just became a pawn to other actual power brokers instead.


That just enforces what I said before.


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## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> That just enforces what I said before.


Oof, didn't think you'd just straight-up admit to being a corporate bootlicker like that.  Rough life being an unapologetic capitalist with no capital.


----------



## Coto (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Clearly you haven't been keeping up with the conversation.  Trump _has_ recently voiced support for Putin.


I couldn't care less even if Biden supports China (which he does, and you're paying through taxes imports that shouldn't have happened). That's what happen when you decide on quotes and feelings, you get your entire country to slowly collapse, and Democrats have shown that.


----------



## Coto (Mar 9, 2022)

pustal said:


> None of the countries involved are socialist o have a socialist governing party...
> 
> USA: liberal / neo-liberal


Surely the government and current running president is liberal, neo-liberal. Enjoy your taxes and inflation!

ROFLCopter


----------



## pustal (Mar 9, 2022)

Coto said:


> Surely the government and current running president is liberal, neo-liberal. Enjoy your taxes and inflation!
> 
> ROFLCopter


My taxes and inflation?

Dude I live in Europe, where socialism actually exists under the form of social democracy and I enjoy my free healthcare and social security, thank you very much. Also it is not a bad word here, as we didn't suffer through a nonesensical red scare, for as much as Koch and Putin money have been trying to propagate for the last few years with that American import.

Also thank your companies for inflation, not your government.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 9, 2022)

hell naw, saw some of you retards call Joey B a socialist, just shows y'all automatically leave your brain remainings at the entrance when going onto the political section


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## pustal (Mar 9, 2022)

Russia disconnects Chernobyl from the power grid, endangering both Ukraine and Russia amount others.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 9, 2022)

Russia has alot of santions on it now anyways with big teck, dude I watch uploaded  a video on it.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 9, 2022)

As I was out today, I noticed petrol price had suddenly jumped from around £1.49 /litre to £1.70 /litre. That's the biggest increase I think I've ever seen in just a couple days.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 9, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> As I was out today, I noticed petrol price had suddenly jumped from around £1.49 /litre to £1.70 /litre. That's the biggest increase I think I've ever seen in just a couple days.


Ours is up a dollar and a quarter. to $4 in my state. fun....


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 9, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Ours is up a dollar and a quarter. to $4 in my state. fun....


It's out of order. I will be sending an invoice directly to Putin for reimbursement.


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## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> It's out of order. I will be sending an invoice directly to Putin for reimbursement.


you should as Several Russian source saying Russian banks are hours away from folding..so get your invoices now before Russia declares bankruptcy


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## sombrerosonic (Mar 9, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> It's out of order. I will be sending an invoice directly to Putin for reimbursement.


Oof, i meant it went up 1.25 its usualy 2.75 but now its expensive. Hope to move out of the US sooner or later when im older to avoid getting muged for pocket change.


----------



## smf (Mar 9, 2022)

Coto said:


> That's bullshit. But I wouldn't be surprised if you suddenly make out a fact from a dictionary definition when in fact the point originally was something else.


Well if you say something "literally" happened, then it happened exactly as specified with no room for interpretation.

Which is not what happened at all, what Biden did was completely different to what was said.

So yeah, that's bullshit.



djpannda said:


> you should as Several Russian source saying Russian banks are hours away from folding..so get your invoices now before Russia declares bankruptcy



I think that is wishful thinking, russia has several options available to prevent that.



Xzi said:


> elieve I've once mentioned WW3 in this thread, take it up with someone who has. And again, it's obvious that if anyone were to spark such a massive conflict, it'd be someone mentally unstable like Putin, who is currently slaughtering civilians in Ukraine. Unprovoked too, not that that should matter.



What do you class WW3? During the cold war we thought of that as a nuclear war, but it doesn't mean it has to be. War has changed considerably, at one point all you could do was stab each other then you launch bits of metal at each other.

We could just end up hacking each other and financially strangling each other.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/07/rus...ays-world-war-iii-likely-already-started.html
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...xistential-global-conflict-has-begun-12559039

Or maybe there will be more combat, but it's kinda outdated.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

smf said:


> ,





smf said:


> I think that is wishful thinking, russia has several options available to prevent that.




When the head of HUGE Russian BANking system.. says nope and tries to bounce… its a clear sign that its over. Don't be supprised when Putin blames her for the failing banks.

And the fact
Banks are worse shape then Russia admits, many normal Russian are unable to get anything out
https://t.me/roman_nfkrz/46
https://t.me/roman_nfkrz/48


This Russian was able to get "Some Money" less then 25% of what he requested,  but it was also because he had an appointment set up days ago.. other are not able to get more then $10 out.. and when a MCD's cost 40,000 rubles as of last night ..its donee


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 9, 2022)

Kerch Strait incident.



Coto said:


> Yeah I know. If Trump was supporting Putin right now, I would have given him the middle finger as well.
> 
> Thing is, right now, _USA was a major ally in WWII and socialists are slowly destroying that legacy now._


Speaking of allies, Trump was the one who wanted to weaken Nato.


----------



## AstralVoodoo (Mar 9, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Well yes



So you defenetly putin trollbot, there is no evidence in these videos, and the videos themselves were made by Putin's propaganda. Министрество информации ДНР ... no comments.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

AstralVoodoo said:


> So you defenetly putin trollbot, there is no evidence in these videos, and the videos themselves were made by Putin's propaganda. Министрество информации ДНР ... no comments.


At this point any thing @Dark Ronin, is from a Kremlin approved script.. just wait a week or two, when Russia collapses and China Purchase Russia wholesale. he will just be paste whatever the CCP wants


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 9, 2022)

djpannda said:


> At this point any thing @Dark Ronin, is from a Kremlin approved script.. just wait a week or two, when Russia collapses and China Purchase Russia wholesale. he will just be paste whatever the CCP wants


I honestly do not think he is anything more but a Russian who supports his country's government. Does that make him evil? No, not really. Even if they are misguided its their belief and depending on their situation and raising its probably what narrative makes the most sense to them mentally. You really can't blame those who fall into that narrative, as we have more than a few that have fallen into similar narratives here stateside. Its a failure on both sides, to prevent this shit from growing the way it did and to accept it as a natural form of fact when there are greater truths worth seeking beyond the wall.

That said I do believe we have a "wumao" in this discussion here with us, I will not name who but their comments have been mostly not reactionary to others and instead have been solo posts in support of the war on Russia's end with blatant, broken English.

That or they are just a troll trying to get a rise out of people here. Either way I do not think Ronin is any of these. He is just a man that believes his government. Honestly speaking its no worse than when we went out in Iraq in the early 00's for entirely misguided reasons and people thinking it was the right and patriotic thing to do especially after the attacks. We were swept up into it until it became clear that we did not have a justifiable reason to be in there.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 9, 2022)

Richard Spencer is on Team Ukraine. He thinks it is a paradigm shift and hopes it will rekindle the Western, i.e. white spirit. This conflict might unite Europe in a civilizational struggle against the Russians who define themselves as anti Western. He thinks white people are mistaken in cheering on Russia and calls them traitors. He is excited that the Cold War is back and that people - without admitting it openly - care about this war more than others is because it affects white people. He thinks wokeness will take a back seat in the face of nuclear armageddon. He predicts a partioned Ukraine with the western part joining NATO (while losing a lot of its territory).

I hope I did not misrepresent his thinking.
How does it feel to be on the same team?
The facts are: In Ukraine, Soviet flags on tanks are about to encounter troops with Nazi symbols. It is not the norm but this symbolism is telling. The war about Eastern European resources and land masses is back.

I think his analysis is deep and deserves more attention. But I am not on his team.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> I honestly do not think he is anything more but a Russian who supports his country's government. Does that make him evil? No, not really. Even if they are misguided its their belief and depending on their situation and raising its probably what narrative makes the most sense to them mentally. You really can't blame those who fall into that narrative, as we have more than a few that have fallen into similar narratives here stateside. Its a failure on both sides, to prevent this shit from growing the way it did and to accept it as a natural form of fact when there are greater truths worth seeking beyond the wall.
> 
> That said I do believe we have a "wumao" in this discussion here with us, I will not name who but their comments have been mostly not reactionary to others and instead have been solo posts in support of the war on Russia's end with blatant, broken English.
> 
> That or they are just a troll trying to get a rise out of people here. Either way I do not think Ronin is any of these. He is just a man that believes his government. Honestly speaking its no worse than when we went out in Iraq in the early 00's for entirely misguided reasons and people thinking it was the right and patriotic thing to do especially after the attacks. We were swept up into it until it became clear that we did not have a justifiable reason to be in there.


the issue is 99% of the world is showing the Reality of the War, and Im sure he is not located in Russia Directly. So you knows he has seen what  outside media is saying ...... being Patriot and ignoring War crimes is completely different.  ( many in USA protested and were strongly against WAR, but guess what Washington did not lock up everyone for 15 years )


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 9, 2022)

Well see. 2 weeks you say? We'll see you Biden whores/trollobots.


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## smf (Mar 9, 2022)

djpannda said:


> When the head of HUGE Russian BANking system.. says nope and tries to bounce… its a clear sign that its over.


I'm not saying that the russian banks are doing well. Look back at 2008 and a load of banks weren't doing well.

The question is whether they will be allowed to collapse.



Dr_Faustus said:


> Does that make him evil? No, not really. Even if they are misguided its their belief and depending on their situation and raising its probably what narrative makes the most sense to them mentally.


People rarely consider themselves as evil, it's usually a misguided belief.

Neither Hitler or Putin will have considered themselves as evil.

Drug addicts, rapists, muggers, etc will all justify their behavior. Everyone is the good guy in their own movie.


----------



## Viri (Mar 9, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Speaking of allies, Trump was the one who wanted to weaken Nato.


He just was sick of NATO allies not paying their share. If shit went south like it happened now, and they started paying their shares, he would be happy. I think Putin was quite terrified of doing anything with Trump in power, because Trump was very unpredictable and crazy. I legit believe Trump would have gone to war with Russia over Ukraine, likewise with China and Taiwan. Trump is crazy enough to do it, and they know it.


Also, does anyone else remember when the world flipped out at Trump, because he took a phone call from the Taiwan President?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

Viri said:


> He just was sick of NATO allies not paying their share. If shit went south like it happened now, and they started paying their shares, he would be happy. I think Putin was quite terrified of doing anything with Trump in power, because Trump was very unpredictable and crazy. I legit believe Trump would have gone to war with Russia over Ukraine, likewise with China and Taiwan. Trump is crazy enough to do it, and they know it.



Fan Fiction Doujinshi... LOLOL ok back to reality, Where Trump wipes he mouth after each time he meeting PUTIN


----------



## blakeana (Mar 9, 2022)

Viri said:


> Also, does anyone else remember when the world flipped out at Trump, because he took a phone call from the Taiwan President?


moreso it was only the PRCtards who can't take the truth and instead want to cope and LARP about how Taiwan is just a PRC's isle


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

smf said:


> I'm not saying that the russian banks are doing well. Look back at 2008 and a load of banks weren't doing well.
> 
> The question is whether they will be allowed to collapse.


"doing well"  is a fucknig under statement .. This no where near 2008. the USD only last roughly 4% value during that time direct...

The Ruble is at 60% value lost.. and the only reason it has not tanked worse was because Putin is too much of a coward to open the Russian Stock Market.. the moment that opens it will will be near 0.00... We are talking end of the Russian world Banking situation. not 4% inflation the US Market faced 
4% vs 60%??


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 9, 2022)

Russian economy is destroyed, this is undeniable at this point. It is not Venezuela levels of destroyed yet, but Russia still is broken AF.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Russian economy is destroyed, this is undeniable at this point. It is not Venezuela levels of destroyed yet, but Russia still is broken AF.


wait a week...
and you really can compare a South American country was underdeveloped if not 3rd world... to Russia a formal Superpower and cities that cost more then NYC/LA


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 9, 2022)

djpannda said:


> wait a week...


I used the word "yet" for a reason. Although, I don't know how the big American boys on their big trucks will react with few cents of raise on their beloved and holy gas. Here some say that it will not be a big deal, some disagree. But you obviously are in a much better position to tell than me.

My personal feeling, based on nothing concrete, is that more angry the common American gets with the gas prices, more drastic measures against Putin they will support.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Oof, didn't think you'd just straight-up admit to being a corporate bootlicker like that.  Rough life being an unapologetic capitalist with no capital.


And you bootlick for the left. Actually, you're worse since I'm pretty sure you'd spread your ass cheeks wide for them. You're one of the prime examples of an NPC shill and yet you call me one. That's like a serial killer calling someone who supports the second amendment a murderer. It's truly laughable at this point and why I gave up trying to argue with people with their head so far up their ass they almost choke on all the rancid shit they consume.


----------



## pustal (Mar 9, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> I used the word "yet" for a reason. Although, I don't know how the big American boys on their big trucks will react with few cents of raise on their beloved and holy gas. Here some say that it will not be a big deal, some disagree. But you obviously are in a much better position to tell than me.
> 
> My personal feeling, based on nothing concrete, is that more angry the common American gets with the gas prices, more drastic measures against Putin they will support.


The problem is that the common american is going to be bombarded with propaganda against Biden. They''ve been pinning gas prices and inflation on Biden, and this will be too. But I don't know if it'll matter much to the situation outside the US.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

pustal said:


> The problem is that the common american is going to be bombarded with propaganda against Biden. They''ve been pinning gas prices and inflation on Biden, and this will be too. But I don't know if it'll matter much to the situation outside the US.


most Americans already know its BS, but the Far Right wants to Blame Biden for the SUN Setting each day

 Big oil with Rather just Paid Foreign nations More Money and then double the increase to Americans,
Than spending  their own money creating new Drilling site


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And you bootlick for the left.


Oh yeah, so many leftist corporations and billionaires out there to give all my money to.  



BitMasterPlus said:


> You're one of the prime examples of an NPC shill and yet you call me one.


I calls 'em as I sees 'em.  You admitted of your own volition that you think there are billionaires and corporations out there that actually care about your well-being.  That's like believing a dancer at the strip club really does love you.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Fuck off Putin apologist.  Did NATO bomb Russia or did Russia bomb Ukraine?  Rhetorical question of course, we all know the answer to that.


I think you're just upset the Biden family doesnt have control of those power plants anymore.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> I think you're just upset the Biden family doesnt have control of those power plants anymore.


I'm literally upset that Putin is committing war crimes.  The Biden family has never been and will never be poor, no reason to concern myself over their personal finances.  It's not like he's cheating his way around the emoluments clause like the former president did, either.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm literally upset that Putin is committing war crimes.  The Biden family has never been and will never be poor, no reason to concern myself over their personal finances.  It's not like he's cheating his way around the emoluments clause like the former president did, either.


oh yay looks like we got another "non Burner" account that likes to babble without any actual sources.. and apparently focuses on World new side.... how fun


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm literally upset that Putin is committing war crimes.  The Biden family has never been and will never be poor, no reason to concern myself over their personal finances.  It's not like he's cheating his way around the emoluments clause like the former president did, either.


You can't just set up missiles at the border of a nation and point them at people.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> You can't just set up missiles at the border of a nation and point them at people.


I'd say you can't just pull events that didn't happen out of your lying ass, either, but he we are.

Nobody threatened Russia before Putin invaded Ukraine.  Russia will now be dealing with the consequences of those actions for the next several decades, as it should be.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'd say you can't just pull events that didn't happen out of your lying ass, either, but he we are.
> 
> Nobody threatened Russia before Putin invaded Ukraine.  Russia will now be dealing with the consequences of those actions for the next several decades, as it should be.


Its okay when the EU, UN and NATO do it though.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> Its okay when the EU, UN and NATO do it though.


If the EU, UN, or NATO ever invade an otherwise-peaceful, sovereign nation, I'll protest equally loud against it.  But the bottom line is that there aren't any modern parallels to draw on with Putin's attempt to annex the entirety of Ukraine.  The age of conquerors is long since past, and as a part of a global economy, Russia has no means to escape what's coming to them.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If the EU, UN, or NATO ever invade an otherwise-peaceful, sovereign nation, I'll protest equally loud against it.  But the bottom line is that there aren't any modern parallels to draw on with Putin's attempt to annex the entirety of Ukraine.  The age of conquerors is long since past, and as a part of a global economy, Russia has no means to escape what's coming to them.


I dont think you understand what the EU is or does.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 9, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> I dont think you understand what the EU is or does.


I know what imperialism is, and allowing potential member nations to voluntarily submit requests to join a club ain't it.  You're even allowed to leave any time you want, as demonstrated by the UK.  That doesn't mean you won't regret it though, as also demonstrated by the UK.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 9, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> Its okay when the EU, UN and NATO do it though.


Has NATO invaded a sovereign country in order to avoid that? Has NATO made up stuff in order to justify an invasion?


----------



## pustal (Mar 9, 2022)

djpannda said:


> most Americans already know its BS, but the Far Right wants to Blame Biden for the SUN Setting each day
> 
> Big oil with Rather just Paid Foreign nations More Money and then double the increase to Americans,
> Than spending  their own money creating new Drilling site



Do they? 'Cause his approval ratings aren't going great: https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/

I think big oil, like anything else want to maximize profits. The thing with inflation is that when costs go up, companies make it as an excuse for everything to go much higher than it should.

Here there it has become a meme, that when the barrel goes up a bit, the "gallon" (liter) price always go up, when the barrel goes down, the "gallon" doesn't go down "to prevent future rises".

We consume Brent mostly. In 2013 Brent had the same cost as last week and the averge liter price was €1,619 back then and it reached €1,936 now and it's predicted to rise another €0,14 next week.

At the same time, locally operating gas companies had record breaking profits last year and they have massivelly spent on propaganda to blame taxes, and have been in a year-long campaign to lower taxes on gas.

Coincidentally, ahead of the public effords to ride that narrative is our neo-liberal party, the Liberal Initiative that have members with ties to Students for Liberty, a Koch founded and financed institution.


----------



## Coto (Mar 9, 2022)

Inflation doesn't affect just oil or gas, also affects things like renting costs, car prices, everything that's not manufactured in-house (imports) or that may be expensive to produce, like meat.
If you see an extra cost increase in all of them on the same timeline, as, say last year, while also noting a shortage of them, then that's guaranteed inflation.

Socialist countries around here like Argentina already have empty supermarkets, no products at all, when 14 years ago they had the exact ammount of them as Chile, just twice as expensive.  In Chile the shortage can be seen already, same as 10~ years ago like in Argentina, and prices are skyrocketing now.

Also it's worth noting 10% of the chilean income left when a new socialist constitution was agreed back in 2021
[https://www.df.cl/noticias/mercados...iago-retrocede-casi-10/2021-05-17/095142.html]

Needless to say, back in the 70s, when the inflation was about 500%, affecting the most basic food like bread, then government decided to add a price control, and guess what happened.... no bread available!

Thus they had the shitty idea of creating  JAP (Juntas de Abastecimiento y Control de Precios) so you could have bread as long as you supported a Communist Regime, otherwise you'd starve to death


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Oh yeah, so many leftist corporations and billionaires out there to give all my money to.


I'd be surprised if you even had a bank account at this point.


Xzi said:


> I calls 'em as I sees 'em.  You admitted of your own volition that you think there are billionaires and corporations out there that actually care about your well-being.  That's like believing a dancer at the strip club really does love you.


Not sure where you got that impression since that seems like you more than me. I calls 'em as I sees 'em as well, and I sees another bullshit storm approaching.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I'd be surprised if you even had a bank account at this point.


My balance has five digits in it...counting the two beyond the decimal point.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Not sure where you got that impression since that seems like you more than me.


You're willing to condemn Putin and his actions, while simultaneously sticking your head in the sand on Trump's very obvious connections to him.  My position on this matter is consistent: all oligarchs are evil, whether in government or the private sector.  Your position is influenced by tribalism, so it's not surprising that hypocrisy comes attached to that by default.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And you bootlick for the left. Actually, you're worse since I'm pretty sure you'd spread your ass cheeks wide for them.


Whoa lol



idontgetit said:


> Its okay when the EU, UN and NATO do it though.


No it's not


----------



## Tomato123 (Mar 10, 2022)

Some good news.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Tomato123 said:


> Some good news.



Thanx… he most likely was on the Train I mentioned yesterday… hope he’s able to return back to some normalcy.. and again FUCK PUTIN


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You're willing to condemn Putin and his actions, while simultaneously sticking your head in the sand on Trump's very obvious connections to him.  My position on this matter is consistent: all oligarchs are evil, whether in government or the private sector.  Your position is influenced by tribalism, so it's not surprising that hypocrisy comes attached to that by default.


Dude, that's because you believe the lies and fantasies about how "evil" Trump is. You don't have to like him, but at least have valid reasons as to why so you don't look like a brainwashed fool, but whatever, do what you want to do. And your position is far from consistent from what I've seen. Or if it is, it's the typical dipshit nonsensical position many have nowadays. I honestly wish Putin would fire a nuke just so other countries of the world would do the same so we can get all be vaporized and I wouldn't have to deal with stupid people anymore.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude, that's because you believe the lies and fantasies about how "evil" Trump is.


meanwhile...
_January 6th trials_
Guy Reffitt has been found guilty on all charges. reminder that he (trump) was the one who really boosted
 the date for that?
_Also meanwhile..._
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...ansgender-military-policy-goes-effect-n993826
remember when trump banned transgender people from the military?
oh yeah right and also remember the Muslim ban? or Executive Order 13780
Or how about perpetuating QAnon
or how about the time Trump threw toliet paper Puerto Ricans after they got ravaged by a hurricane.
oh! right and how about the time he said he thought that vaccines causes autism back in 2015. oh right, speaking about vaccines.
let's also forget the hypocrisy regarding that statment since ya know, "I helped made the vaccine"
how about the fact that he did nothing about the pandemic until two entire months after he was informed?
Or how about his connections to Epstein. Or how about his "grab em by the pussy" comment?
Let me go ahead and "load" sarcasm.exe
trump is _totally_ not a human piece of shit


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude, that's because you believe the lies and fantasies about how "evil" Trump is. You don't have to like him, but at least have valid reasons as to why so you don't look like a brainwashed fool, but whatever, do what you want to do. And your position is far from consistent from what I've seen. Or if it is, it's the typical dipshit nonsensical position many have nowadays. I honestly wish Putin would fire a nuke just so other countries of the world would do the same so we can get all be vaporized and I wouldn't have to deal with stupid people anymore.


Oh and one last thing, since you know, your responding to a comment talking about how your head is stuck up in the sand. And with you essentially saying "brainwashed"
How about that _perfect_ phone call.
What was it again? _threatening_ _military aid with *Ukraine*_
who did trump have close connections too? Oh right...
"hey Russia if your listening..."
Do I have to add more? How much more evidence is necessary?


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude, that's because you believe the lies and fantasies about how "evil" Trump is. You don't have to like him, but at least have valid reasons as to why so you don't look like a brainwashed fool, but whatever, do what you want to do.


It takes an evil person to amass a dragon's hoard of wealth and still want more.  Again I say, _every_ oligarch is evil.  We just have more receipts on Trump than most other billionaires because he ran for public office and because of how many times he's been sued.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I honestly wish Putin would fire a nuke just so other countries of the world would do the same so we can get all be vaporized and I wouldn't have to deal with stupid people anymore.


"I wish Putin would fire a nuke because someone on the internet disagrees with my political views."  Real mature.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

holy fuck just reading some of yall's messages makes my brain damaged

anyways, maybe instead of arguing on a gaming forum about politics... maybe you could be more useful to the world and donated to some *verified* charities? or volunteered? this will be way more productive than yapping to each other about Trump n' shit, you get me?


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

blakeana said:


> anyways, maybe instead of arguing on a gaming forum about politics... maybe you could be more useful to the world and donated to some *verified* charities? or volunteered? this will be way more productive than yapping to each other about Trump n' shit, you get me?


But this is the world news, current events & politics forum though...lol.  And I've already donated as much as I possibly can to Ukraine.


----------



## Glyptofane (Mar 10, 2022)

In some sense, I find myself becoming somewhat jealous of the Russian people having all these horrible, destructive companies suddenly vowing to exit their lives.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> In some sense, I find myself becoming somewhat jealous of the Russian people having all these horrible, destructive companies suddenly vowing to exit their lives.


Probably not as jealous of their currency being worth a fraction of a US cent though.  And Russia isn't moving away from a capitalist economy any time soon, so it's largely a moot point.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> But this is the world news, current events & politics forum though...lol.  And I've already donated as much as I possibly can to Ukraine.


that does not pardon any of y'all from being objectively wrong
not sure why you took my post so personally, but you're so weirdly offended


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

blakeana said:


> that does not pardon any of y'all from being objectively wrong
> not sure why you took my post so personally, but you're so weirdly offended


Not offended, just responding since it sounded like I was one of the people you were referring to.  You cannot state objectively that my stance (all oligarchs/billionaires are evil) is wrong.  That's a subjective opinion on your part, and assuming that is your viewpoint, we'd simply have to agree to disagree.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Not offended, just responding since it sounded like I was one of the people you were referring to.  You cannot state objectively that my stance (all oligarchs/billionaires are evil) is wrong.  That's a subjective opinion on your part, and assuming that is your viewpoint, we'd simply have to agree to disagree.


"being wrong" referred to certain individuals defending Putin/CCP/Trump on this thread, not you.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

Damn, looks like what was formerly Russia is now North China:

Russian banks offer yuan accounts as Putin turns to China

Didn't see that one coming, but maybe Winnie the Pooh did.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Damn, looks like what was formerly Russia is now North China:
> 
> Russian banks offer yuan accounts as Putin turns to China
> 
> Didn't see that one coming, but maybe Xi Jinping did.


great, we are gonna deal now with another world-hungry artificial creation! because clearly covid and Ukraine wasn't enough. hopefully there will be a way to strangle China as well. otherwise we are fucked


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

blakeana said:


> great, we are gonna deal now with another world-hungry artificial creation! because clearly covid and Ukraine wasn't enough. hopefully there will be a way to strangle China as well. otherwise we are fucked


Yeah, our options are a lot more limited with China, but we can help alleviate that a little by moving more and more chip manufacturing elsewhere; which is actually a process that has been ongoing for some time now.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Yeah, our options are a lot more limited with China, but we can help alleviate that a little by moving more and more chip manufacturing elsewhere; which is actually a process that has been ongoing for some time now.


if China becomes a larger tumor than it is now, the world needs to shield out Taiwan as much as it can, it's perhaps the most important point in CCP's grand quest to strangle the world.

if we fail to protect and ally with Taiwan, then we will fail as humanity and best we can do then is nuke each other until nothing remains out of our civillizations.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 10, 2022)

blakeana said:


> great, we are gonna deal now with another world-hungry artificial creation! because clearly covid and Ukraine wasn't enough. hopefully there will be a way to strangle China as well. otherwise we are fucked


The only world-hungry artificial creation is the West. Ukraine (or whatever will be left of it) will get the idea one day: no borders, no nations, no men nor women, no hierarchy except regarding who can virtue signal the most. If there was no Russia, the West would have to attack Eastern European countries (as they do - see Hungary and Poland in the EU) for opposing these things.

For a short russophob moment, the Western establishment suddenly rediscovered ideas like "nation" and was not asking "what does man even mean" when Ukrainian men were prevented from leaving the conflict zone.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 10, 2022)

I´m not a moderator, but watch your language.
Also, nobody understands your cryptic nonsense.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´m not a moderator, but watch your language.
> Also, nobody understands your cryptic nonsense.


oh nooo are you crying and shitting and throwing up because someone did not support your regime??  god you're so fucking pathetic, and you wonder nobody sane in this thread wants to have a regular discussion with you


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 10, 2022)

I am not crying. Calling countries a tumor and expressing your wish to "strangle" them launches you in the same direction as Hitler. I know you are resistent to facts and logic, but I have stated many times that I am not Chinese. I live in China.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am not crying. Calling countries a tumor and expressing your wish to "strangle" them launches you in the same direction as Hitler.


gee i wonder what makes CCP then, the exact same bastard kindergarten wishing death on millions of Taiwanese  Hitler is nowhere as cool as I am

also PRC is a tumor that needs to be removed off this planet, keep crying


----------



## linuxares (Mar 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´m not a moderator, but watch your language.
> Also, nobody understands your cryptic nonsense.


Please no backseat moderation. It's perfectly fine not to be happy about a nation.


blakeana said:


> oh nooo are you crying and shitting and throwing up because someone did not support your regime??  god you're so fucking pathetic, and you wonder nobody sane in this thread wants to have a regular discussion with you


Please don't do that L+ thingy again. I kind of understood it but it doesn't really make it a good discussion point.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Please don't do that L+ thingy again. I kind of understood it but it doesn't really make it a good discussion point.


boohoo, i literally said why I'm not going to have a normal discussion with this guy.


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I know you are resistent to facts and logic, but I have stated many times that I am not Chinese. I live in China.


nah b where did you get the idea that i give a fuck about your ethnicity? i bash every PRC defender no matter where are they from


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

Wow.... Ukraine is putting stickers of kid of there blood types because of school bombing

https://www.today.com/parents/parents/ukrainian-parents-blood-type-stickers-rcna17148


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Wtf Russian Propaganda is really desperate in trying to justify these war Crimes
So now they are Hinting that America with Georgia ( Country not US state) jointly created Corona Virus in Ukraine...

lol At this Point, Next week "Ukraine created the tech for a nazi moon colony, where they they would able to recreate Dinosaur DNA and created the Chupacabra.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Oh well. Maybe if Ukr.military haven't used schools as fortposts, this could be avioded. 
Moreover, why school is running classes during war? It just makes no sense.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Separatist regions??? Donbass and Donetsk that were bombed for last these years are now separatist? Those newsmakers are twisted shameless fucks.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Oh well. Maybe if Ukr.military haven't used schools as fortposts, this could be avioded.
> Moreover, why school is running classes during war? It just makes no sense.


You know what else doesn't make sense? Bombing a sovereign country and claiming it to be illegitimate out of nowhere, yet, here we are...


----------



## Xzi (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Oh well. Maybe if Ukr.military haven't used schools as fortposts, this could be avioded.


The fuck does this even mean?  *You're in someone else's country, jackass, the schools are just schools.  *The hospitals you're bombing are just hospitals too. Nice attempt at hand-waving away serious war crimes though...Jesus.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Oh well. Maybe if Ukr.military haven't used schools as fortposts, this could be avioded.
> Moreover, why school is running classes during war? It just makes no sense.


Source?


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

Also, let's not forget this article published by a state owned russian news agency on the first days of war.

The original can be found here.

"Denazification" and "Demilitarization" my ass


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The fuck does this even mean?  *You're in someone else's country, jackass, the schools are just schools.  *The hospitals you're bombing are just hospitals too. Nice attempt at hand-waving away serious war crimes though...Jesus.


not sure what did you expect from a guy who keeps up chanting the putinade on a gaming forum... clearly a paid troll


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Source?


Putin.....


----------



## linuxares (Mar 10, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Putin.....


Maybe, but I wait for @Dark Ronin to reply


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Putin.....


akschually it's not putin it's RT/Sputnik/insert other RUS propaganda chanter


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

People are now sheltering in the subways now

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-shelters.html


----------



## blakeana (Mar 10, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> People are now sheltering in the subways now
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-shelters.html


internet explorer moment, this has been going on for days now


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Also, let's not forget this article published by a state owned russian news agency on the first days of war.
> 
> The original can be found here.
> 
> "Denazification" and "Demilitarization" my ass


its a weird claim because of a Ukraines so calledUltra Right WIng Nationalist (pretend NAZIs) Milita has less then 900 members... in a country that has a Jewish President, several Holocust survivor and  Memorial and Population of 42mil.... but perfectly OK excuse to take over the other 41,999,100 Ukrainians 

NO one time them about American CPAP...


sombrerosonic said:


> People are now sheltering in the subways now
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-shelters.html


that has been happening since day one


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

I admit that my brain is slower than a pentium D 945, Sorry for the inconvenience.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> I admit that my brain is slower than a pentium D 945, Sorry for the inconvenience.


don't be!  We appreciate that more the people interested and actively witness  this at real time, the more  the better. Less people falling for subpar  Russian Propaganda... like the current one " why your bombing youself"

I Mean really !!! Russia want you to think that the Ukrainian Military secretly pass thru the Russian lines... STOLE Russian Artillery ... secretly took the Artillery past Russians.. Aim the Russian Artillery (that they just stole) aimed it at Ukrianain civilians (completely overpassing the Russian) then place the Artlilery back to the Russian and sneak again to the original Ukrainain lines


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## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> You know what else doesn't make sense? Bombing a sovereign country and claiming it to be illegitimate out of nowhere, yet, here we are...


Oh really? What about Iraq and Yugoslavia then? Ring-a-bell? Lybia, eh?
Americans are so self-righteous.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Oh really? What about Iraq and Yugoslavia then? Ring-a-bell? Lybia, eh?
> Americans are so self-righteous.


Nonsense, don't try to use fallacies while avoiding the main issue. We are talking about Ukraine, not Libya or Yugoslavia. Also, I'm not american but south american, don't project your insecurities onto me.

Edit: We aren't even talking about americans. The shit they do and countries they invade/invaded are not, in any shape or form, a justification for the wrongdoings of Russia.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

@Dark Ronin  are you going to Answer Linuxares ? Inquired mind want to know


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Maybe, but I wait for @Dark Ronin to reply


I'd gladly provide you with them, but you will consider them proKremlin and proRussian, so do I really need to? Few pages back I uploaded some youtube vids and everyone said they're false propaganda, so I won't waste my breath anymore.
There's a shitloads of fakes from UKR, US and UN reporters widespreaded, and no one gives a shit about them being legitimate or not, because people tend to believe in what they want to believe.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> I'd gladly provide you with them, but you will consider them proKremlin and proRussian, so do I really need to? Few pages back I uploaded some youtube vids and everyone said they're false propaganda, so I won't waste my breath anymore.
> There's a shitloads of fakes from UKR, US and UN reporters widespreaded, and no one gives a shit about them being legitimate or not, because people tend to believe in what they want to believe.


Source still?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

Ill like to see the source as well, I think it may be fun to poke at


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Nonsense, don't try to use fallacies while avoiding the main issue. We are talking about Ukraine, not Libya or Yugoslavia. Also, I'm not american but south american, don't project your insecurities onto me.
> 
> Edit: We aren't even talking about americans. The shit they do and countries they invade/invaded are not, in any shape or form, a justification for the wrongdoings of Russia.


Russia never declared war to Ukraine, instead it denacificates and demilitarizes it. This is called as SpecOps, not a war.
Ukraine at the other hand covers Donetsk and Lugansk with artillery fire for this 8 years without giving a single fuck to Minsk agreements.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> There's a shitloads of fakes from UKR, US and UN reporters widespreaded, and no one gives a shit about them being legitimate or not, because people tend to believe in what they want to believe.


You're free to call them out and show where they are wrong, as long as you can provide evidence. We are not the kremlin, nobody is going to shoot you for mentioning the wrongdoings and war crimes of Ukraine.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Ill like to see the source as well, I think it may be fun to poke at


Please no. What do you expect to see. you don't know Russian anyway.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Ok, gimme a minute.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Russia never never war to Ukraine, instead it denacificates and demilitarizes it. This is called as SpecOps, not a war.
> Ukraine at the other hand covers Donetsk and Lugansk with artillery fire for this 8 years without giving a single fuck to Minsk agreements.


This doesn't answer the question, it's not a spec ops, that's just an excuse for the war crimes russians are commiting. It is a war, always has been. Don't try to disguise it as a spec ops, they are shelling civilians, bombing civilian infrastructure,  hiding it from the population and sending conscripts to die for a non-existent cause.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

https://en.topwar.ru/193319-fejk-o-...astiem-beremennoj-modeli-byl-razoblachen.html
This is how easily mass opinion can be manipulated.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-denies-bombed-childrens-hospital-fake-news


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

This is quite an old video. This is UKR nazi's shouting "Bendera - our hero". Just watch it.
Have you seen anything like this in Russia? No.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Is I said, nothing is "enuff proof" for you. Why would I waste my breath anyway?

And now banning me for reply in this thread, eh @linuxares. Go on. Be a prejudiced bitch that you're always been. So long.


----------



## Dark Ronin (Mar 10, 2022)

Another one. They're screaming "Slew Moscals (Russians)"
That was back in 2014, well, this "kids" have finely grown into nazi's.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Another one. They're screaming "Slew Moscals (Russians)"
> That was back in 2014, well, this "kids" have finely grown into nazi's.



so your showing a group of less then 2000 people hating on Russian ( who at the time took over Ukrainian Crimea) as proof of what?
I am not seeing any NAZI signals, abuse of Ukrianian Born Russian or anything that would be considered excuse for a WAR.? all the Video shows Is a Group of Ukrianains Protesting Russian Occupation  of Crimea


----------



## linuxares (Mar 10, 2022)

I guess we need to make special military operation to Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Imperial_Movement


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

Wait... The FOX news one was just bouncing off what the president sayed and top war is based in russia, This is kinda fishy


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

linuxares said:


> I guess we need to make special military operation to Russia.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Imperial_Movement


don't forget the RNU
https://historica.fandom.com/wiki/Russian_National_Unity 

who by the way have more members then The Ukrianian "Nazi"


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> https://en.topwar.ru/193319-fejk-o-...astiem-beremennoj-modeli-byl-razoblachen.html
> This is how easily mass opinion can be manipulated.
> https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-denies-bombed-childrens-hospital-fake-news


Yes, russians are denying war crimes, what is new? They didn't provide any proof. Saying "some locals said it" won't cut it. On the other hand, there are photos of the bombed hospital, the injured civilians and probably of the dead (I won't try to find those). But hey, it's all an act right? Ukraine bombed itself...


Dark Ronin said:


> This is quite an old video. This is UKR nazi's shouting "Bendera - our hero". Just watch it.
> Have you seen anything like this in Russia? No.



Oh, let's just forget about Wagner Group and it's neo-nazi connections? Such as the head of the PMC being one? If you're trying to justify the invasion of Ukraine because of the presence of neo-nazi groups, let's also invade Germany, the US, Russia, etc


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 10, 2022)

djpannda said:


> don't forget the RNU
> https://historica.fandom.com/wiki/Russian_National_Unity
> 
> who by the way have more members then The Ukrianian "Nazi"


They even have a website tf


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> They even have a website tf


I don't still don't understand why they still claiming this "nazi" thing when Russia deals with ALOTTT more 'Nationalist" issues ... and Then even Putin ego has been fumbling with the excuses...
in the last 3 weeks Putin has claim he is doing this for 
1. Nazis
2. To STOP NATO
3. To Help Russians in Ukriane 
4. To help Ukriane
5. To recreate Russian territory ( USSR, not RUSSIAN) 
6. Covid was created in Ukriane 
....but because noones bitting his just keeps revolving the excuses


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> This is quite an old video. This is UKR nazi's shouting "Bendera - our hero". Just watch it.
> Have you seen anything like this in Russia? No.



so what are your opinions of the RNU
You know the Russia NAZI group with over  "100,000 members, and several RNU members fought in the Donbass War alongside pro-Russian militias"

Please link the Sources where PUTIN denazificed this Group... because it does not make sense for Putin to declare WAR on Ukriane when Russia has a bigger Nazi presence


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

Is it me or did he leave the tread after we debunked what he said?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> Oh well. Maybe if Ukr.military haven't used schools as fortposts, this could be avioded.
> Moreover, why school is running classes during war? It just makes no sense.


This is a Great Example of Russia Propaganda not cordenating and falling
Two Russian offices
Russian Military : We did not BOMB ANYTHING... Ukrianans did it themselves
Russian Government: We BOMBed it because "NAZI" where Inside..


at this point, Russia has killed the "Ukrainian nazis" of less then 900 over 3 -4 times but hey they keep going why?


----------



## Cooler3D (Mar 10, 2022)

*I'm from Russia. I'm sorry, but I will not comment on the situation in any way...*
...because an honest comment would violate at least 5 articles of the criminal code of the Russian Federation, and potentialy would pull on life imprisonment.

All I can say is that I am very sorry, and infinitely ashamed that we were not able to contain the cancerous tumor inside, and now the whole world has to disentangle this problem. We did not cope with this task in a timely manner, and the responsibility for the result is solely our fault.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Cooler3D said:


> *I'm from Russia. I'm sorry, but I will not comment on the situation in any way...*
> ...because an honest comment would violate at least 5 articles of the criminal code of the Russian Federation, and potentialy would pull on life imprisonment.
> 
> All I can say is that I am very sorry, and infinitely ashamed that we were not able to contain the cancerous tumor inside, and now the whole world has to disentangle this problem. We did not cope with this task in a timely manner, and the responsibility for the result is solely our fault.


I understand, I had a couple of Russian Friends in Russia, that have become "radio silent" for their family safety.  just brace yourself even if War does not last, Russian Sanction will remain for a while.
Many Russian feel the way you do and hopeful something happens internally to create change.  I know its shortsighted  to demand People to stand...but hopefully you don't miss your chance


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

Cooler3D said:


> *I'm from Russia. I'm sorry, but I will not comment on the situation in any way...*
> ...because an honest comment would violate at least 5 articles of the criminal code of the Russian Federation, and potentialy would pull on life imprisonment.
> 
> All I can say is that I am very sorry, and infinitely ashamed that we were not able to contain the cancerous tumor inside, and now the whole world has to disentangle this problem. We did not cope with this task in a timely manner, and the responsibility for the result is solely our fault.


Its ok fam, its not your fault. hope you do good.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 10, 2022)

Cooler3D said:


> *I'm from Russia. I'm sorry, but I will not comment on the situation in any way...*
> ...because an honest comment would violate at least 5 articles of the criminal code of the Russian Federation, and potentialy would pull on life imprisonment.
> 
> All I can say is that I am very sorry, and infinitely ashamed that we were not able to contain the cancerous tumor inside, and now the whole world has to disentangle this problem. We did not cope with this task in a timely manner, and the responsibility for the result is solely our fault.


Please be safe, best wishes


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Well hopefully it’s the beginning of Russian state Tv starting to distance them self from the WAR
today Thursday 3/10
State TV pundit Karen Shakhnazarov
“Those who talked of their mass attraction to Russia obviously didn’t see things the way they are. The most *important thing in this scenario is to stop our military action*. Others will say that sanctions will remain. Yes, they will remain, but in my opinion *discontinuing the active phase of a military operation is very important.”*
Well people are going to say that’s just one guy on tv… you have to remember Kermlin STATE TV, they  would of cut off the feed mid sentence if they didn’t want this out..

I’m wondering if this is the start Kermlins losing the narrative(poeple fighting propaganda) or is this Kermlin setting up a “clean up “ when they report heavy losses


----------



## smf (Mar 10, 2022)

djpannda said:


> The Ruble is at 60% value lost.. and the only reason it has not tanked worse was because Putin is too much of a coward to open the Russian Stock Market..


Didn't they instruct the stock market to ignore any sell orders once it reopens.

You're thinking too within the rules. Putin plays by his own rules. Once you realize that he doesn't care, then he has a lot more options available to him.

His biggest risk is that his inner circle gets fed up with him and he is disappeared.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

Sergeĭ Viktorovich Lavrov
Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation






Reporter :: Than how do you explain the 10,000 dead Russian soldiers and another 1000s of destroyed Russian Miliarty Vehicles in Ukraine


LAVROV:


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## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Sergeĭ Viktorovich Lavrov
> Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation
> 
> 
> ...


Next on the invasion, Russia sends nukes and blames it on bigfoot


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

lets not downplay

 Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi -"We hope to see fighting and the *WAR* stop as soon as possible," - 3/10
WHAT?? He just committed a crime that carries 15 years....


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 10, 2022)

So... China & Russia V.S Ukraine.... This is bad, Real bad.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 10, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> So... China & Russia V.S Ukraine.... This is bad, Real bad.


no, it can be a sign that China is backing away slowly... and the Fact that A Chinese Minister called it a "WAR" after the Kremlin is threatening Russian citizens 15 year in prison for saying "War". is HUGE... it  showing the cracks between them.. CCP does not usually stumble on words and mostly everything is Triple Checked before stated. ( China has SOOO much more to lose then Russia if this continues )


----------



## Coto (Mar 10, 2022)

If anything China doesn't want this to escalate further because they've been supporting WHO / United Nations from the start
and they're currently *taking over Latin America through fake coups and socialist governments*



> China is one of the charter members of the United Nations and is one of five permanent members of its Security Council.



So it'd be stupid for them to continue to gain more enemies worldwide now. So they'll simply clean Putin's face through these ONGs and call it a day.


----------



## Renwyn (Mar 11, 2022)

Cooler3D said:


> *I'm from Russia. I'm sorry, but I will not comment on the situation in any way...*
> ...because an honest comment would violate at least 5 articles of the criminal code of the Russian Federation, and potentialy would pull on life imprisonment.
> 
> All I can say is that I am very sorry, and infinitely ashamed that we were not able to contain the cancerous tumor inside, and now the whole world has to disentangle this problem. We did not cope with this task in a timely manner, and the responsibility for the result is solely our fault.


I hope all of you are safe...
in any war, the people that got hurt the most is the people like you...
I sincerely hope that this invasion will be over soon and our friend in Russia and Ukraine can feel at peace again


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 11, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Oh and one last thing, since you know, your responding to a comment talking about how your head is stuck up in the sand. And with you essentially saying "brainwashed"
> How about that _perfect_ phone call.
> What was it again? _threatening_ _military aid with *Ukraine*_
> who did trump have close connections too? Oh right...
> ...








No please keep spouting misinformation and the bullshit the media has brainwashed you to believe. He beat 2 impeachments because they had jack shit on him and there was nothing substantial on the Ukraine phone call for it to be worth anything. If you think Trump deserves to go to jail for all this bullshit, what about all the other politicians that have done the same and/or even worse? Knowing you, they get a free pass. TDS has truly gotten worse nowadays.


Xzi said:


> It takes an evil person to amass a dragon's hoard of wealth and still want more.  Again I say, _every_ oligarch is evil.  We just have more receipts on Trump than most other billionaires because he ran for public office and because of how many times he's been sued.


We also have receipts on other billionaires (Bill Gates, George Soros) that have actually done crimes against humanity, but nah, let's pick on Trump for all the bullshit lies. If the world would listen to your advice, we'd be even worse than we are now- actually, with Joe Biden in office, that reality has come true. Welcome to the new world you wanted. Just because you have a general representation of something does not make it fact or true. You really need to get over yourself.


Xzi said:


> "I wish Putin would fire a nuke because someone on the internet disagrees with my political views."  Real mature.


No I wish nukes would rain down to get rid of stupid assholes like you. Is that more clear enough for ya? And I've seen many in this thread where maturity has flown way out the window, so yeah, you're one to talk. Moron.

I should stop replying, but why when coming here and killing my own brain cells is just too much fun? In the end, almost everyone here are evil nasty pricks anyhow.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> We also have receipts on other billionaires (Bill Gates, George Soros) that have actually done crimes against humanity, but nah, let's pick on Trump for all the bullshit lies.


Oh I fully believe that both of those individuals has done some evil shit, they aren't exempt from my "all oligarchs are evil" rule.  Just...probably not most of the same stuff that right-wing conspiracy nuts say they did, since those people have a far from accurate track record.  They fling random shit at the wall and hope something sticks, so to speak.



BitMasterPlus said:


> If the world would listen to your advice, we'd be even worse than we are now


I didn't give any advice, only stated my opinion.  Most people recognize that billionaires are evil, but don't have the means to do anything about it.  C'est la vie.



BitMasterPlus said:


> with Joe Biden in office, that reality has come true. Welcome to the new world you wanted.


In the world I want, GWB and Dick Cheney would both be in prison for life for war crimes.  Trump never would've run for office because the presidency wouldn't be viewed as a safe haven for criminality.  Bernie Sanders would've been elected in 2016 and re-elected in 2020.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I should stop replying, but why when coming here and killing my own brain cells is just too much fun?


Well at least choose this _or_ huffing gasoline. Doing both is killing them off way too fast.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> In the world I want, GWB and Dick Cheney would both be in prison for life for war crimes.  Trump never would've run for office because the presidency wouldn't be viewed as a safe haven for criminality.  Bernie Sanders would've been elected in 2016 and re-elected in 2020.


Because if that open communist America wouldn't totally be completely destroyed beyond repair at all. Sanders 2024!


Xzi said:


> Well at least choose this _or_ huffing gasoline. Doing both is killing them off way too fast.


Dude I don't care how you spend your weekends now lol


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because if that open communist America wouldn't totally be completely destroyed beyond repair at all. Sanders 2024!


Trump already destroyed it, and Joe Biden sure as shit ain't capable of putting it all back together again.  But that's the point: the Democratic party are controlled opposition and the closest we've ever had to a leftist president was FDR.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude I don't care how you spend your weekends now lol


Oof, lame comeback.  Guess I set my expectations too high.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Trump already destroyed it, and Joe Biden sure as shit ain't capable of putting it all back together again.  But that's the point: the Democratic party are controlled opposition and the closest we've ever had to a leftist president was FDR.


Oh yeah. Record low unemployment. Gas prices low. A stable economy. Secure borders. The world being at relative peace. I'm sure glad that facist dictator nazi racist warmonger is gone so he can't fuck up this country anymore


Xzi said:


> Oof, lame comeback.  Guess I set my expectations too high.


My thoughts on half the people here.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh yeah. Record low unemployment. Gas prices low. A stable economy. Secure borders. The world being at relative peace.


Institutions destroyed or disbanded.  Constitution trampled over.  Half a million Americans dead from a worthless federal pandemic response.  Drunken rapists and religious cultists on the Supreme Court.  Nazis marching through Charlottesville.  An attempted insurrection.  Two well-deserved impeachments in one term.  Support for Putin, Kim Jong Un, and other ruthless dictators.  The laughing stock of the rest of the civilized world.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point by now.  Ya boy didn't lose the presidency, Senate, and House all in one term for no reason.  Ukraine thanking every god ever imagined that he didn't win re-election, because otherwise any effort to repel Russia would've been doomed from the start.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Institutions destroyed or disbanded.  Constitution trampled over.  Half a million Americans dead from a worthless federal pandemic response.  Drunken rapists and religious cultists on the Supreme Court.  Nazis marching through Charlottesville.  An attempted insurrection.  Two well-deserved impeachments in one term.  Support for Putin, Kim Jong Un, and other ruthless dictators.  The laughing stock of the rest of the civilized world.
> 
> I could go on, but hopefully you get the point by now.  Ya boy didn't lose the presidency, Senate, and House all in one term for no reason.  Ukraine thanking every god ever imagined that he didn't win re-election, because otherwise any effort to repel Russia would've been doomed from the start.


Oh good god I can't even....XD This is why I gave up arguing here, the delusion is so damn deep with people all over.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh good god I can't even....XD This is why I gave up arguing here, the delusion is so damn deep with people all over.


Says the kid whose parents programmed him to be a Republican.  Your ego is _WAY_ too wrapped up in Donald Trump's rancid reputation. Like Elsa says, let that shit go.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 11, 2022)

@BitMasterPlus @Xzi  as a european i dont get your beef why are both so obsessed with puppet politicians ?

its like watching a discussion over favourite soccer teams ...please both wake up

your fighting and arguing  is exactly what "they"  want  its a strategy to keep youre people busy and divided  as long as both sides (left right,republican or whatever in your country is relevant) arguing and fighting with each other none of them will get the real enemy and that are the politicians and the government itself  

just let me remind you guys politicians arent your friends and mostly will never stand for peoplerights in general 
its like what i said about the media and let me say it aint different with politicians  you have always someone or something whos financing those politicians or parties  in return the politicians /parties  will do thing in their favour and push their agenda


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

rantex92 said:


> as a european i dont get your beef why are both so obsessed with puppet politicians ?


You clearly didn't read much of the conversation, I already told him that Trump was just a puppet to other, actual power brokers of the world.  He was once a billionaire and then he wasn't, so that makes him easy to manipulate.



rantex92 said:


> its like watching a discussion over favourite soccer teams ...please both wake up


Lol as if I'm arguing for the Democrats here.  No, I'm just arguing against all oligarchs, including Putin who has Trump on a leash.



rantex92 said:


> your fighting and arguing is exactly what "they" want its a strategy to keep youre people busy and divided as long as both sides (left right,republican or whatever in your country is relevant) arguing and fighting with each other none of them will get the real enemy and that are the politicians and the government itself


The government and most politicians are under the heel of the private sector, which is why America's oligarchs reside in business.  The Musks and Bezoses.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> No please keep spouting misinformation and the bullshit the media has brainwashed you to believe. He beat 2 impeachments because they had jack shit on him and there was nothing substantial on the Ukraine phone call for it to be worth anything. If you think Trump deserves to go to jail for all this bullshit, what about all the other politicians that have done the same and/or even worse? Knowing you, they get a free pass. TDS has truly gotten worse nowadays.


that was all you to bring up the impeachment and media part. Really easy to rile you up. Anyways...
Since you called me brainwashed, let me show you exactly why I stated what I stated.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/25/us/politics/trump-ukraine-transcript.html
it's just the straight up transcript. I am going to chunk it up, since obviously speaking I don't need the whole thing. Just the parts needed. You can check if it's in order through the source.
Trump
" Well it’s very nice of you to say that. *I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time"*
this statement establishes a beating around of the bush "We help you a lot"
"but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. *I wouldn’t say that it’s reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine"*
this establishes that the previous president felt that United States and Ukraine are not Reciprocal.
Zelinksy responds back, and toward the end of that statment:
"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."
this is essentially a request for more aid.
"*I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."*
this is the part that I find disgusting. Previous president holding it over the country, that knows they are going to be invaded.
This is as close to the presidents own words. No media. his own words.

this is just raw footage, no talking over. Trump did ask Russia to find emails. We already know the result, they did.
However, have you maybe noticed the issue here?

The current ongoing conflict is between Russia, and Ukraine. Reminder that Trump had a call with putin that he didn't want to disclose any information about. Reminder that he has a lot of close ties for whatever reason with Russia.
This is why I don't care about the impeachments. Laws != morals.
It is morally unethical to hold aid over a country who is damn sure they are going to be invaded. And asking for a strong foreign power to find dirt on your opponent is morally questionable at least. And extremely unethical/ immoral at most.

tl;dr
all of this is directly from the horses mouth or as close as it can be, no misinformation. perhaps you're the one brainwashed since you elicited such a strong response. After all, you went through the effort to pull up a meme and throw the image towards me.


----------



## smf (Mar 11, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi -"We hope to see fighting and the *WAR* stop as soon as possible," - 3/10
> WHAT?? He just committed a crime that carries 15 years....


Was he in Russia at the time?

I think more interesting is that after apple and samsung have pulled out of russia, the shipments of xiaomi and huawei phones has also been cut because of the fall in the ruble. 

China aren't willing to cut their own throat to support their comrades, even if it would gain them 100% of the market.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh yeah. Record low unemployment. Gas prices low. A stable economy. Secure borders. The world being at relative peace. I'm sure glad that facist dictator nazi racist warmonger is gone so he can't fuck up this country anymore



Trump was the worst thing that happened to America since the British went over and stole the land from the natives.

Putin is the worst thing to have happened to Russia.


----------



## rantex92 (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You clearly didn't read much of the conversation, I already told him that Trump was just a puppet to other, actual power brokers of the world.  He was once a billionaire and then he wasn't, so that makes him easy to manipulate.


you didnt get my point maybe its the speechbarriere but let me say it in simpler terms "why are the americans so obsessed with this lowlife?" 


Xzi said:


> Lol as if I'm arguing for the Democrats here.  No, I'm just arguing against all oligarchs, including Putin who has Trump on a leash.
> 
> 
> The government and most politicians are under the heel of the private sector, which is why America's oligarchs reside in business.  The Musks and Bezoses.


oh you mean the "rothschilds" and "rockefellers"....sounds like its the mad painter all over again  *just jokin  youre somewhat right but its not only america whos on that leash the whole world  get fucked by those "olifarchs" as you called them


----------



## djpannda (Mar 11, 2022)

In Russia, people walk away from money… 
But seriously, then fact the guy is losing and Just chucks the Rubles and no one care just show the value of the ruble.

Well off Russian communities are exclusively using Euro/USD.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Says the kid whose parents programmed him to be a Republican.  Your ego is _WAY_ too wrapped up in Donald Trump's rancid reputation. Like Elsa says, let that shit go.


And your ego is _WAY_ too wrapped up on yourself to actually have two brain cells to actually see what's going on. But I will take your advice and try to make this my last post on the topic and let it go before my own brain cells die anymore.


Nothereed said:


> that was all you to bring up the impeachment and media part. Really easy to rile you up. Anyways...
> Since you called me brainwashed, let me show you exactly why I stated what I stated.
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/25/us/politics/trump-ukraine-transcript.html
> it's just the straight up transcript. I am going to chunk it up, since obviously speaking I don't need the whole thing. Just the parts needed. You can check if it's in order through the source.
> ...



Dude none of this is even substantial and it's clear many democratic crime families, from the Bidens to the Clintons, have interests from around the world that they don't want to get leaked but already have. The Bidens are wrapped up in corruption in Ukraine more than anyone else at this point. Is that an excuse for Russia to invade? No, but once again people would rather plug their ears and be fed the BS propaganda rather than see what's actually happening, so live your life in delusion for all I care until it all comes crashing down. I won't feel sorry for you or anyone.



smf said:


> Trump was the worst thing that happened to America since the British went over and stole the land from the natives.
> 
> Putin is the worst thing to have happened to Russia.


First statement is just your moronic opinion. Second statement, well, I don't really care what Russia does so whether if it's right or not doesn't matter to me.


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 11, 2022)

smf said:


> Putin is the worst thing to have happened to Russia.



I believe you need to read a little more about the Tzars, about Stalin...


----------



## djpannda (Mar 11, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> This is quite an old video. This is UKR nazi's shouting "Bendera - our hero". Just watch it.
> Have you seen anything like this in Russia? No.



Please tell Putin I found actual Nazis in his Kremlin  goverment. Please let us know when Putin starts to denazify the Kremlin (bomb the shit out of itself)


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 11, 2022)

y'all just forgot y'all get oil and gas from russia, when all of the europe cut all trade from russia y'all can't move your vehicle lol, depend oil and gas from arabs ? lol y just feeding another monster


djpannda said:


> In Russia, people walk away from money…
> But seriously, then fact the guy is losing and Just chucks the Rubles and no one care just show the value of the ruble.
> 
> Well off Russian communities are exclusively using Euro/USD.


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 11, 2022)

Which is another reason to not rely on oil and gas.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 11, 2022)

i do support you for banning oil and gas it helps the earth a lot


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 11, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i do support you for banning oil and gas it helps the earth a lot


I really wish that all trains, cars, motorcycles, trucks and heavy machinery were powered by electricity.

I mean, we would still be fucked environmentally speaking, but way less fucked than we are now.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because if that open communist America wouldn't totally be completely destroyed beyond repair at all. Sanders 2024!


Speaking of communist what about those Trump supporters who are so twisted about the current presidency that they would openly accept communism instead?

Tell me, how does it feel knowing that your party has been manipulated so much by external forces that it becomes a snake eating its own tail. You have become what your paranoid nightmares tried to fight.


Xzi said:


> Trump already destroyed it, and Joe Biden sure as shit ain't capable of putting it all back together again.  But that's the point: the Democratic party are controlled opposition and the closest we've ever had to a leftist president was FDR.


The Democratic Party is so up its own arsehole anymore its arguably more illegitimate than the RNC. Superdelegates be damned. Trump got in because of the popular vote, not because the RNC really wanted him (hell they were backing for Jeb but no one cared), the reason why Bernie did not get far enough was because the DNC simply had their own pick already made up and the candidate race is just for show anymore. I still find it amazing that Bernie came out strong at the start of the 2020 election while Biden was so far behind he was in the same level of popularity as "Yang Gang" and Bloomberg but suddenly out of nowhere Biden got so pushed ahead of everyone it was like he was never having any issues at all with being what people wanted. 

The two party system is simply too fucked to be considered viable anymore.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Trump got in because of the popular vote


Correction: he didn't win the popular vote, he won because of the electoral college.



Dr_Faustus said:


> the reason why Bernie did not get far enough was because the DNC simply had their own pick already made up and the candidate race is just for show anymore


That I agree with.  Both the 2016 and 2020 campaign were more about ensuring that Sanders didn't get the nomination than they were about ensuring the Democrats won.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Here are a couple Old Oliver Stone documentaries that Google/Youtube are making it very difficult to find at the moment, but Rumble was kind enough to let me host:

https://rumble.com/vx1kvl-ukraine-on-fire-2016-oliver-stone.html

https://rumble.com/vx3u4b-revealing-ukraine-2019-oliver-stone.html


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> Here are a couple Old Oliver Stone documentaries that Google/Youtube are making it very difficult to find at the moment, but Rumble was kind enough to let me host:
> 
> https://rumble.com/vx1kvl-ukraine-on-fire-2016-oliver-stone.html
> 
> https://rumble.com/vx3u4b-revealing-ukraine-2019-oliver-stone.html


I wonder if he's just as staunchly pro-Russia since the invasion began.  Wouldn't surprise me of course, he's getting old and more and more set in his narrow viewpoints.  So for contrast, here's a documentary about Putin's long history of corruption and how he seized power:


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I wonder if he's just as staunchly pro-Russia since the invasion began.  Wouldn't surprise me of course, he's getting old and more and more set in his narrow viewpoints.  So for contrast, here's a documentary about Putin's long history of corruption and how he seized power:



Why don't you watch them, then you won't have to wonder any more. Duh. Are you afraid that your theory is right and that you might be persuaded to be pro-Russian your self, or...
...might you be way off base, have no clue as to what you are talking about, because you DIDN'T watch either of them, and to do so now would just be a blow to your paper thin ego?


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> Why don't you watch them, then you won't have to wonder any more.


For some reason I'm doubting that documentaries made in 2016 and 2019 are going to answer my questions about Stone's viewpoints in 2022.  They're only relevant at this point if you're willing to believe that Ukraine had a hand in starting the conflict with Russia, and I'm not willing to believe that type of propaganda.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Facebook Makes Special Rule Saying Calls For Violence Against Russians ARE Allowed​
https://odysee.com/@TimcastIRL:8/fa...ng-calls:0?r=FU7d4iTGVxtWvTgb2vkC2YLbXFPVni8K


----------



## djpannda (Mar 11, 2022)

Brave Russians!! This was last night even though they face 15 year for being against the War… these protest are just getting bigger and bigger.. I’m waiting for it to pop


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> Facebook Makes Special Rule Saying Calls For Violence Against Russians ARE Allowed​
> https://odysee.com/@TimcastIRL:8/fa...ng-calls:0?r=FU7d4iTGVxtWvTgb2vkC2YLbXFPVni8K


Lol, Tim Pool as a source.  This would be headline news everywhere if it was actually true.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 11, 2022)

And least not forget multiple Russian speaking up…


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

For the note, I am not pro-war at all in relation to all of this, but there is a back story and everyone and their grandma seems to be ignoring that point. On the topic of points I find it strange how everyone can only see a point A or point B in this scenario, but their imaginations are totally devoid of the myriad of other points that Google, Youtube, and the like are preventing us from having open conversations about. 

Again I say, SCIENCE DOES NOT SILENCE!!! 

That aside, I have noticed that a lot of people do not know how to learn, how to study, and how to apply scientific method when researching a subject in order that one may determine what is true, what is false, and while is most and least likely if we lack a smoking gun, but can clearly hear where the proverbial shot came from.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Lol, Tim Pool as a source.  This would be headline news everywhere if it was actually true.


But it is clear to see, the entire collective of mega corporations are taking it out on the Russians, most heads of state (China aside) are taking it out on the Russians, but it's only Putin, his buddies, and the Russian military that are actually doing this. So why must the Russian people suffer because of the convictions and actions of some others? 

Such an approach to live is too black, white, and narrow. It lacks insight, nuance, and depth, and is dangerous, leading only to mis-understanding and despotism.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> So why must the Russian people suffer because of the convictions and actions of some others?


Because we have no other means of putting pressure on Putin.  He's got hidden resources and dark money stashed all over the world.  It's kind of inevitable that an amoral dictator who's allowed to declare war unilaterally is going to cause problems for his country eventually, so the preferable outcome would've been a revolution the moment he dropped the facade and declared that Russia was no longer a democracy.  Second best time to give him the boot and/or put a bullet between his eyes would be right now.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Because we have no other means of putting pressure on Putin.  He's got hidden resources and dark money stashed all over the world.  It's kind of inevitable that an amoral dictator who's allowed to declare war unilaterally is going to cause problems for his country eventually, so the preferable outcome would've been a revolution the moment he dropped the facade and declared that Russia was no longer a democracy.  Second best time to give him the boot and/or put a bullet between his eyes would be right now.




Well check out this angle! Guess who groomed Putin?!?!?!

From the horse's mouth...


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> Guess who groomed Putin?!?!?!


The KGB.  He used the techniques he learned there to stage a false flag attack which killed many of his own countrymen, and that's what allowed him to seize power in the first place.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The KGB.  He used the techniques he learned there to stage a false flag attack which killed many of his own countrymen, which is what allowed him to seize power in the first place.



I know he was in the KGB, which in itself is very suspect, but what I am pointing out is that he is part of the World Economic Forum and their self proclaimed Davos Agenda, aka Great Reset. That is what all of this is about. One World Governance from the U.N., global police in the form of NATO, mote censorship, less rights, less privacy, less individuality, less free will, more taxes, higher prices, more depression, mass suicide, and baby murder, you name it, you got it!


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> Great Reset. That is what all of this is about. One World Governance from the U.N., global police in the form of NATO, mote censorship, less rights, less privacy, less individuality, less free will, more taxes, higher prices, more depression, mass suicide, and baby murder, you name it, you got it!


I mean...you just described capitalism, and every major economic power on the planet is already capitalist, so trying to get people to accept one global government seems like a whole lot of unnecessary effort.


----------



## The Catboy (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I mean...you just described capitalism, and every major economic power on the planet is already capitalist, so trying to get people to accept one global government seems like a whole lot of unnecessary effort.


Your arguments are going to fall on deaf ears with XDel. Dude is as unhinged as they get and there's literally no convincing out of the fantasy world he created.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I mean...you just described capitalism, and every major economic power on the planet is already capitalist, so trying to get people to accept one global government seems like a whole lot of unnecessary effort.


Totalitarianism isn't built into Capitalism though, besides, we are a Republic held together by a Constitutional Democracy, which in principle is supposed to protect us from the Greed that often comes along with the act of Capitalizing (we all have this temptation, we are human), and is also supposed to protect us from bare bones Democracy aka MOB RULE, not unlike we are moving towards today.

That said the current state of Capitalism has been allowed to usurp our Constitutional rights as citizens, just as dictators in Socialist or Communist countries in the past were able to usurp the will of the people in their own countries in their own time. In the end be it state or a collaboration of world wide corporations, you have totalitarianism in the end, it is the same outcome, which is why we really need to understand what it means to be American and how it is that that dream has been so severely raped.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> Totalitarianism isn't built into Capitalism though


You don't have to build totalitarianism or authoritarianism into any economic system, they inevitably emerge unless you build in safeguards against them.



XDel said:


> In the end be it state or a collaboration of world wide corporations, you have totalitarianism in the end, it is the same outcome, which is why we really need to understand what it means to be American and how it is that that dream has been so severely raped.


Yep.  The root causes go back even further, but Reagan kicked off class warfare proper, and the rich have been winning that war ever since.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You don't have to build totalitarianism or authoritarianism into any economic system, they inevitably emerge unless you build in safeguards against them.
> 
> 
> Yep.  The root causes go back even further, but Reagan kicked off class warfare proper, and the rich have been winning that war ever since.


 Yes, the Constitution was supposed to be that safe guard, and that is why we have the bill or rights, because when the constitution was finally written, certain entities tried to revoke certain intended rights, and so we have the Bill of Rights which is a very shortened version of the original proposal. 

Capitalism in the basic sense existed since the dawn of time, and without a charitable spirit, Capitalism can turn to greed and therefore corruption, hence the reason restraints have been put in it, but not followed, and likewise, restraints have been removed from it, not unlike some of Reagan's moves, and made more room for corruption, especially in regards to marketing to and dumbing down children.


----------



## smf (Mar 11, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> y'all just forgot y'all get oil and gas from russia, when all of the europe cut all trade from russia y'all can't move your vehicle lol, depend oil and gas from arabs ? lol y just feeding another monster


I would gladly be inconvenienced if it means pushing Putin's Russia back into the dark ages.

That is inevitable now because of Putin's poor decision making.



XDel said:


> Capitalism in the basic sense existed since the dawn of time


The origins of Capitalism were 13th to 16th Century. You're millions of years out.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude none of this is even substantial and


Hold on let me get you by the record.
Do you think holding military aid over a  country who knows they are going to be invaded, for a favor?
Are you seriously telling me that's not substantial. That if zelinsky did not do the favor trump asked, that he and everyone in Ukraine right now wouldn't be struggling a quite a bit more?
Your telling me that it is not substantial, so I am giving you a chance right now to walk back on that statement.


----------



## Kurt91 (Mar 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Because we have no other means of putting pressure on Putin.  He's got hidden resources and dark money stashed all over the world.  It's kind of inevitable that an amoral dictator who's allowed to declare war unilaterally is going to cause problems for his country eventually, so the preferable outcome would've been a revolution the moment he dropped the facade and declared that Russia was no longer a democracy.  Second best time to give him the boot and/or put a bullet between his eyes would be right now.


This is what bugs me, because I see absolutely no way for some of the boycotts to do anything useful other than making the innocent Russian citizens miserable. For one example, how does Disney refusing to release any current films in Russia do anything against Putin specifically instead of merely taking something away from the Russian citizens who had absolutely nothing to do with any of this? I doubt that not being able to see "Turning Red" is going to do any damage to the Russian government itself, but upset a lot of children and Disney fans in Russia who had nothing to do with anything.

I can understand wanting to show support for Ukraine during all of this, but a lot of it seems to be all show (whether it's a charitable view of "What else can we specifically do" or the cynical view of "Look at us! We're helping! Buy our stuff because we're good people!") and a lot of innocent people in Russia wind up suffering in pointless ways for things they didn't have any say in.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 11, 2022)

Kurt91 said:


> This is what bugs me, because I see absolutely no way for some of the boycotts to do anything useful other than making the innocent Russian citizens miserable. For one example, how does Disney refusing to release any current films in Russia do anything against Putin specifically instead of merely taking something away from the Russian citizens who had absolutely nothing to do with any of this? I doubt that not being able to see "Turning Red" is going to do any damage to the Russian government itself, but upset a lot of children and Disney fans in Russia who had nothing to do with anything.
> 
> I can understand wanting to show support for Ukraine during all of this, but a lot of it seems to be all show (whether it's a charitable view of "What else can we specifically do" or the cynical view of "Look at us! We're helping! Buy our stuff because we're good people!") and a lot of innocent people in Russia wind up suffering in pointless ways for things they didn't have any say in.


It increases the likelihood of people protesting the war in various ways, even if they might've supported Putin in every other venture up to now.  And it has had some effect: multiple Russian millionaires/billionaires have voiced opposition to the invasion because they can't enjoy the same level of luxury they're used to with a collapsed economy.

Also...it's kinda hard to sympathize with Russian citizens over not being able to watch Netflix for a while, when a few hundred miles away Ukrainian citizens are being slaughtered like cattle.  The sanctions make it clear that Russia cannot go on living as normal so long as Ukraine can't either.


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

What have we here...

https://odysee.com/@RealNewsforever...-Ukraine:6?r=FU7d4iTGVxtWvTgb2vkC2YLbXFPVni8K


----------



## XDel (Mar 11, 2022)

From Russia with Love: "No Coke, No Junk Food, No Gas, A OK!"

https://odysee.com/@AussieFighter:8...tions!-😁:3?r=FU7d4iTGVxtWvTgb2vkC2YLbXFPVni8K


----------



## Coto (Mar 11, 2022)

XDel said:


> I know he was in the KGB, which in itself is very suspect, but what I am pointing out is that he is part of the World Economic Forum and their self proclaimed Davos Agenda, aka Great Reset. That is what all of this is about. One World Governance from the U.N., global police in the form of NATO, mote censorship, less rights, less privacy, less individuality, less free will, more taxes, higher prices, more depression, mass suicide, and baby murder, you name it, you got it!


You're correct about that:

Why Putin was in Latin America



> On July 11, Putin began a weeklong trip to Brazil, Argentina, Nicaragua and Cuba, which included attending the sixth *BRICS’ summit* and the launch of the organization’s *New Development Bank.*




World Economic Forum site:



> *The New Development Bank (NDB), formerly known as the BRICS Development Bank, is a multilateral development bank operated by the BRICS states (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa). The bank aims to foster greater financial and development cooperation among the five emerging markets.*




What does mean for the average joe? Means Socialist countries (by having socialist regimes or next to) are working and financing United Nations/China on a global scale to take over entire countries. (source)


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 11, 2022)

i'm sure russians have enough food stock since most asian country is not followed western propaganda to boycott russia, they will trade oil / gas for food


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 11, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i'm sure russians have enough food stock since most asian country is not followed western propaganda to boycott russia, they will trade oil / gas for food


There are half dozen countries under US embargo, none of their leaders lost their position, even with borderline total embargo like Cuba. So the common Russian guy is fucked right now, Putin is not.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 12, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i'm sure russians have enough food stock since most asian country is not followed western propaganda to boycott russia, they will trade oil / gas for food


Lol potato life, USSR with all the advantages and disadvantages, surprising both are just only Potato


----------



## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> From Russia with Love: "No Coke, No Junk Food, No Gas, A OK!"


Well yeah, of course they're gonna pick the things with the smallest impact to make light of.  What they can't make light of is potentially running out of coffee and tobacco, neither of which grows in Russia.  Their whole military would probably end up turning to bath salts and eating each others' faces.


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Well yeah, of course they're gonna pick the things with the smallest impact to make light of.  What they can't make light of is potentially running out of coffee and tobacco, neither of which grows in Russia.  Their whole military would probably end up turning to bath salts and eating each others' faces.



Ha ha, maybe, I mean during Communist rule families had to cook up their new borns to make it by, so ya never know, they are determined people.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 12, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> There are half dozen countries under US embargo, none of their leaders lost their position, even with borderline total embargo like Cuba. So the common Russian guy is fucked right now, Putin is not.


Yes but  your talking bout US embargo… let’s take Cuba, it only has A Us Sanction.. I have been to Cuban guess what 99% of the world does not have sanctions.. you have a butt load of rich Europeans,Asian, South American and Canadian  tourist and products ( the lack of product is really the fault of The communist government wanting to control people,NOT THE SANCTIONS.

Russia has sanctions from USA Canada, All of Europe, Australia, Japan … you know 75 % of the $$ in the world.






There is no comparison… it’s at the point no western bank will work with them.. Hell China is refusing to work with Russian publicly in some areas…

You are looking at Post -Apocalyptic Russian in 2-3 months (Mad Max style) the Only thing they will have is GAS..


----------



## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> Ha ha, maybe, I mean during Communist rule families had to cook up their new borns to make it by, so ya never know, they are determined people.


I was more drawing a parallel with the third reich and their meth habit, but sure, I guess we can pretend your thing happened too.


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I was more drawing a parallel with the third reich and their meth habit, but sure, I guess we can pretend your thing happened too.



NAZI's were evil too though.... WAAAAAYYYYYYY more died under Communist rule. And yes, ever hear of the bread lines? Well because their was such a shortage on food (prolly shouldn't kill your farmers and put inexperienced idiots in charge), it was not uncommon for families to cook up the baby mother just delivered in the home...
...because you know, lack of cozy little hospitals at ever street corner.


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 12, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Yes but  your talking bout US embargo… let’s take Cuba, it only has A Us Sanction.. I have been to Cuban guess what 99% of the world does not have sanctions.. you have a butt load of rich Europeans,Asian, South American and Canadian  tourist and products ( the lack of product is really the fault of The communist government wanting to control people,NOT THE SANCTIONS.
> 
> Russia has sanctions from USA Canada, All of Europe, Australia, Japan … you know 75 % of the $$ in the world.
> 
> ...


If you trade with Cuba, you can't trade with USA, so everyone is inside the embargo, it's much more rarsh than you speak. If Sony decide to sell a playstation to Fidel's nephew, the whole Sony group is banned from USA. This goes for every single company in the world. So Cuba only trades with companies that have not intention to trade with USA, aka nobody.

You said tourism, but if I decide go there, chances are huge that I never will get a Visa for USA again (and those expire every 5 years). So in practice, tourists there are from countries that USA does not require visa (western Europe, Japan, and few others).

Don't treat the Cuban embargo as light, because it is not. It's much more a crime than a light embargo.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> NAZI's were evil too though.... WAAAAAYYYYYYY more died under Communist rule.


We can just put it all under the umbrella of victims of authoritarism/dictatorship.  Economic systems become pretty darn irrelevant when it's just one megalomaniac making all the decisions for your entire country.



XDel said:


> And yes, ever hear of the bread lines? Well because their was such a shortage on food (prolly shouldn't kill your farmers and put inexperienced idiots in charge), it was not uncommon for families to cook up the baby mother just delivered in the home...


Bread lines yes, that's well documented.  Cannabalism of family members...not so much.  Most people would rather starve to death, and that applies to peoples of any nation.


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> We can just put it all under the umbrella of victims of authoritarism/dictatorship.  Economic systems become pretty darn irrelevant when it's just one megalomaniac making all the decisions for your entire country.
> 
> 
> Bread lines yes, that's well documented.  Cannabalism of family members...not so much.  Most people would rather starve to death, and that applies to peoples of any nation.


Aghh, so you are pro-commy then? Meaning you trust in mankind to be honest and fair and divide things up equally without screwing anyone over... riiiiiggghhhhttt. That's always worked in the past. Communism can only work within a small family or community or what ever, no matter what the government, if it don't have legal and enforced restrictions imposed upon that government, then it is doomed to failure as it will inevitably grow into BIG GOVERNMENT, which means BIG BUDDY CLUB, which means... well the era we are entering into right now. The globalists vs those not daft enough to fall for their empty promises and lies.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> Aghh, so you are pro-commy then? Meaning you trust in mankind to be honest and fair and divide things up equally without screwing anyone over... riiiiiggghhhhttt.


No, I'm a democratic socialist.  Workers should own the means of production, and leadership should be voted on.  We also need term limits and more than two parties, of course.



XDel said:


> BIG GOVERNMENT


We wouldn't need big government if not for big corporate trying to pull all the strings.  Capitalism creates new problems out of thin air in order to sell you the solution.


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, I'm a democratic socialist.  Workers should own the means of production, and leadership should be voted on.  We also need term limits and more than two parties, of course.
> 
> 
> We wouldn't need big government if not for big corporate trying to pull all the strings.  Capitalism creates new problems out of thin air in order to sell you the solution.


You do realize that the heads of these corporations you speak of do attend the World Economic Forum meetings in Davos with the heads of State right, and you do realize that 99% of the major news media, along with the entertainment industry, the bankers, Wal-Mart, Disney, McDonalds, you name it, are all uniform in regards to this message that they just want to stop the hate and the greed, and want a better future with a happy clappy, more loving humanity, and this and that, and have you also happened to notice that they treat people like shit who don't believe in them and repeat the party line? Did you not see what they did in Australia, what has been done in Canada, and so forth?! 

Just because one is Big Business and the other is Big Government, does not mean that they don't go to bed together. Why are you so lost on labels, and how is it that by ridding the world of what ever your conception of Capitalism, that all these other evil bi-products of the human race will just go away?

As long as there are humans and misleading spirits, there will be problems, government, nor Disney can fix that. Their will be lies, deception, greed, envy, jealously, insincerity,  false pride, and all those things that drive the world down the tubes.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> You do realize that the heads of these corporations you speak of do attend the World Economic Forum meetings in Davos with the heads of State right, and you do realize that 99% of the major news media, along with the entertainment industry, the bankers, Wal-Mart, Disney, McDonalds, you name it, are all uniform in regards to this message that they just want to stop the hate and the greed, and want a better future with a happy clappy, more loving humanity, and this and that, and have you also happened to notice that they treat people like shit who don't believe in them and repeat the party line? Did you not see what they did in Australia, what has been done in Canada, and so forth?!


Uhh yeah...your response implies that I was praising big corporations, when in fact I was doing the opposite.  Of course they don't actually give a damn about gay or black people despite celebrating both gay pride month and black history month.  It's all about the money, capitalism always is.



XDel said:


> Why are you so lost on labels, and how is it that by ridding the world of what ever your conception of Capitalism, that all these other evil bi-products of the human race will just go away?


I'm not suggesting they will, a criminal justice system would still be required in a democratic socialist country.  But capitalism long ago passed communism's body count, and it just keeps growing.  In my relatively short lifetime alone, the US has gone through multiple economic collapses, and the vast majority of my generation will never be able to afford their own homes or pay off their student loans as a result.  Shit's just not working.


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 12, 2022)

Not saying capitlism will always be around, If we survive long enough, but the real problem right now is it is way too off the rails.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> WAAAAAYYYYYYY more died under Communist rule. And yes, ever hear of the bread lines? Well because their was such a shortage on food (prolly shouldn't kill your farmers and put inexperienced idiots in charge),


As I discovered after reading the communist manifesto. The USSR was more state capitalist. It attempted to move over to communism, however. it failed. If you read it, you would of realized that USSR got caught on two issues.
1. power was not equally distributed  and previous oligarchs from capitalism moved their way up further. Paired with a famine which wasn't in their control, obviously caused a lot of problems. ("A lot of problems" is a mega understatement obviously)
2. Marx clearly overthought the method of retention. As in, what's stopping someone from just, overthrowing the revolution that was done right after.  He argued that a temporary state(government) to be formed that would then eventually dissolve.

This obiviously is where the second part of the USSR failed. It did not dissolve. So by marx's own definitions, no, USSR is not communist.
I am ancom, I personally believe that the second part, the method of retention can just be straight up left up to the people. Having a overarching governing body creates a imbalance of power/class. Which well, the desired affect was to abolish class.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> Meaning you trust in mankind to be honest and fair and divide things up equally without screwing anyone over... riiiiiggghhhhttt.


People don't naturally want to screw others over, it's only when say... the bottom line is at stake. you know...
_can I obtain necessities and live_
We're a social species, we're literately built to try to cooperate.
It's just that the system has been designed to pit us up against each other. If I can make a living off of scalping ps5's.
technically this also applies to landlords as well
The system incentives that. I have more money, so I can do whatever the fuck I want, I don't need to think about the people I'm screwing over
_even though everyone else will hate you for your choice on that_
however, if say, idk, it was provided with no strings attached, most people become a fuck ton more considerate of the person (or persons) involved.
In other words, I don't believe people are inherently awful. It's nurtured


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Uhh yeah...your response implies that I was praising big corporations, when in fact I was doing the opposite.  Of course they don't actually give a damn about gay or black people despite celebrating both gay pride month and black history month.  It's all about the money, capitalism always is.
> 
> 
> I'm not suggesting they will, a criminal justice system would still be required in a democratic socialist country.  But capitalism long ago passed communism's body count, and it just keeps growing.  In my relatively short lifetime alone, the US has gone through multiple economic collapses, and the vast majority of my generation will never be able to afford their own homes or pay off their student loans as a result.  Shit's just not working.



What you are referring to is a result of greed not necessarily capital. Murder isn't built into the capitalist philosophy, that again is a bi-product of laws and regulations not being followed in the first place. I.E. If I have an apple tree and you do not, but you want some apples real bad and are willing to pay me $2.00 an apple. Well as a natural result and over the course of time your apple consumption makes me a lot of money, and yet no one has died. Why? Because making money can be ethical and does not have to result in murder and greed. And who knows, maybe I may see you down on your luck later on down the road, and I decide to hook you up an apple tree of your own so you have food for one, and for seconds, can sell apples of your own if you need. Again I can choose to do this because of free will.


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> As I discovered after reading the communist manifesto. The USSR was more state capitalist. It attempted to move over to communism, however. it failed. If you read it, you would of realized that USSR got caught on two issues.
> 1. power was not equally distributed  and previous oligarchs from capitalism moved their way up further. Paired with a famine which wasn't in their control, obviously caused a lot of problems. ("A lot of problems" is a mega understatement obviously)
> 2. Marx clearly overthought the method of retention. As in, what's stopping someone from just, overthrowing the revolution that was done right after.  He argued that a temporary state(government) to be formed that would then eventually dissolve.
> 
> ...


I have read the Communist Manifesto, it is rather dull, and for a dude who never worked, he talks a lot about work conditions for a guy who never worked. Further more Marxism isn't about the end of Capitalism, it is about taking control of Capital, therefore, you would not be in control of your own business and affairs.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> I have read the Communist Manifesto, it is rather dull, and for a dude who never worked, he talks a lot about work conditions for a guy who never worked. Further more Marxism isn't about the end of Capitalism, it is about taking control of Capital, therefore, you would not be in control of your own business and affairs.


A quick look onto your claim, and from what I can find, he did work. He was unable to hold down a stable job due to health issues, specifically carbuncles. He worked as journalist briefly and made money off his own political writings.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> Further more Marxism isn't about the end of Capitalism, it is about taking control of Capital, therefore, you would not be in control of your own business and affairs.


Uh yeah it is. Captalism requires inviduals to hoard wealth/power. Otherwise you die. Communism is about class struggle/removal of class. Just because I own more money than you due to multiple generations of horded wealth, should not mean I get different privileges than you do. It also means that if you made the business, great, but you have to work your fair share. You don't get to live off the backs of hundreds of thousands, and make 5000x more than everyone else just because your the CEO. In other words, switching from a society that is top to bottom. to one that is bottom to top.


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Uh yeah it is. Captalism requires inviduals to hoard wealth/power. Otherwise you die. Communism is about class struggle/removal of class. Just because I own more money than you due to multiple generations of horded wealth, should not mean I get different privileges than you do. It also means that if you made the business, great, but you have to work your fair share.


Ughh, you forgot the Jungle, and no Marx lived off his wife's money. He sucked as a journalist, and his writings were not unique to him. I'd have to pull out my Encyclopedia Britannica, because it states in there that he had attracted the attention of an old society who's name eludes me right now, but they were already working on philosophical works based upon what we now refer to  as communism. They brought him in as sort of a face for the philosophy, seeing as his writings were already well conformed to their own output.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> Communist Manifesto, it is rather dull, and for a dude who never worked, he talks a lot about work conditions for a guy who never worked





XDel said:


> He sucked as a journalis


So... how did we get here? You straight up just stated he did not work. you also did not address the fact the dude had a disease that would make work substantially harder. Seems to me that's a pretty convenient thing to just leave out.


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> So... how did we get here? You straight up just stated he did not work. you also did not address the fact the dude had a disease that would make work substantially harder. Seems to me that's a pretty convenient thing to just leave out.


A lot of people have physical handicaps and that does not hold them back. Have you ever seen that Christian dude who travels around preaching, but was born without arms or legs? Anyhow Marx was silver spoon, he married into money, and was helped and assisted by the order. Besides, people write him up as if he were some ultra compassionate brainiac who had ideas that trancended even those of Christ, Krishna Conciousness, or The Buddha, and who himself could not get any sleep because of his concern for the working class who he himself never spent a moment with. Gay!

EDIT, no wait, he hated gays, I almost forgot.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> he married into money, and was helped and assisted by the order.


And if you  had backround knowledge marx, you would of also known he was petty bourgeois and was very honest with that. However he was surrounded by the working class he was not a speaker but the listener.


XDel said:


> esides, people write him up as if he were some ultra compassionate brainiac who had ideas that trancended even those of Christ, Krishna Conciousness, or The Buddha


That's stupid, (on the entire concept of trancending) but he was extremely sympathetic to the working class against the state. Infact, you want to know why he wrote the manfiesto? Or continued pushing with his writings. It was because a friend of his (Engals) stated that it was so important he would support him in the endeavor.


XDel said:


> could not get any sleep because of his concern for the working class who he himself never spent a moment with.


That's also false. He spent a lot of time with them, he never claimed to be part of the working class, and was extremely open about it. You don't need to be in the same class to be sympathetic to the other.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

addendum: he also went through poverty multiple times before becoming part of "petty bourgeois" which would heavily imply he was part of the working class on several occasions while growing up.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> EDIT, no wait, he hated gays, I almost forgot.


if it was true (which I do believe as plusabile. Mostly because back then, homosexuality was not accepted at all.) then well, that's his problem. However that's not a problem modern day ancoms have to carry with them/ not part of our beliefs.  
besides I'm bi


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> And if you  had backround knowledge marx, you would of also known he was petty bourgeois and was very honest with that. However he was surrounded by the working class he was not a speaker but the listener.
> 
> That's stupid, (on the entire concept of trancending) but he was extremely sympathetic to the working class against the state. Infact, you want to know why he wrote the manfiesto? Or continued pushing with his writings. It was because a friend of his (Engals) stated that it was so important he would support him in the endeavor.
> 
> That's also false. He spent a lot of time with them, he never claimed to be part of the working class, and was extremely open about it. You don't need to be in the same class to be sympathetic to the other.


My second point is stupid, but is a solid point. Ever here of Thoth, ever here of Jesus, how about Socrates? King Minus perhaps? All real people who had much better advice on how to go about life than Marx. Marx was a propaganda writer, as was his friend Engals, who he ended up upsetting greatly, as their friendship was not all peachy keen. As I stated, he/they were supported by the order which had formed a good 100 years or so before Marx and Englals were ever born. And yes, while it is true, you can be born into wealth (the story of everyone who lives in the proverbial west, from ghetto to Hollywood), you can still hold compassion for those with less, but as for Marx being all heart felt and what not, and choosing not to be materialistic, that is all myth. He was bad with money and he didn't want to work, though can you blame him? I don't want to work, or rather, I don't want to work for someone else, but alas, I was not born in the Jungle or the Wilderness so I have to make compromises with those whom I live among.


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> if it was true (which I do believe as plusabile. Mostly because back then, homosexuality was not accepted at all.) then well, that's his problem. However that's not a problem modern day ancoms have to carry with them/ not part of our beliefs.



You need to freshen up on your history about homosexuality not being accepted. That was a cultural thing so a lot of that depended upon what part of the world you are talking about and when. Then you have to consider that if it were normal for all the human race to be bi-curious or what ever, then why would we all have chosen to walk away from it, or to accept a belief that it is bad if all was cool?

Check out how they celebrated Winter Solstice in ancient Rome, they fucked kids and everything; openly. Soldiers could have their way with your wife if they wanted, and so on. This is partly why early Christian were so hated in the early centuries, because they believe the individual had a divine source and had a degree of sovereignty
and individual worth. Concepts which were not exactly valued by the residing culture of the time.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> My second point is stupid, but is a solid point.


can we take a moment to just... really take in the amount of hoops your jumping through? Those two phrases do not go together in the slightest.


XDel said:


> All real people who had much better advice on how to go about life than Marx. Marx was a propaganda writer, as was his friend Engals, who he ended up upsetting greatly, as their friendship was not all peachy keen.


first half is subjective. Second half I don't understand the issue. Are you saying politics is bad? that propganda is bad? What's next? Political memes are bad? is that the point your making???


XDel said:


> As I stated, he/they were supported by the order which had formed a good 100 years or so before Marx and Englals were ever born.


Yeah, the environment has a big influence on what you do. Your point?


XDel said:


> He was bad with money and he didn't want to work


Okay now this is just really stupid.
Boss/manager:
I want you to work 70 hours a week, no questions
Me: that's really stupid
Boss: you don't eat then.
Can you blame me for not wanting to work in those conditions? Or are you going to say "well you don't want to work, sucks for you"
Because that's the conditions they were dealing with. (except most definitely substantially worse)
yeah back then factory work was hitting it strive and there was zero protections


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> can we take a moment to just... really take in the amount of hoops your jumping through? Those two phrases do not go together in the slightest.



Ha ha, I meant to write that my point was not stupid, rather than it was stupid. 


Nothereed said:


> first half is subjective. Second half I don't understand the issue. Are you saying politics is bad? that propganda is bad? What's next? Political memes are bad? is that the point your making???



The first half is not subjective, it is about what has gotten results, and what has not. And yes, of course I am anti-propaganda, because propaganda would mean that you are trying to convince me of something without pointing out the cons with the alleged pros. As for memes, they can be funny, but to make a religion out of politics would be foolish, yes.


Nothereed said:


> Yeah, the environment has a big influence on what you do. Your point?
> 
> Okay now this is just really stupid.
> Boss/manager:
> ...


The environment? No, by order I am talking about the group of men who supported him behind the scenes, I hate to use the term because it has such a bad wrap, but their order was based in Illuminism. If you would like to know more about that, then I would whole heatedly suggest you check out the book, Fire In The Minds Of Men By James H. Billington, he was the Librarian of Congress for a number of years, so you know, not exactly dime store material. Probably the best book on history that you'll read in a long long long time, I can assure you!!! It will strike your interest!

As for work, I am with you, I don't want to work 70 hours either, but let's say I had no choice, let's say there was no where for me to go, and I could not say pirate and sell movies and such off the internet for a living because of copyright laws, then what? Go live in the wilderness? But all the winderness has been privatized. OK, so how about national parks you say, I'll go live in one of them, well if they had not been claimed by the U.N. years ago, and locked down in the name of GREEN FRIENDLINESS, then you would have to contend with nature, and you would have to have the skills to survive, know what to eat, avoid being eaten, conquer the elements, and so forth.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> And yes, of course I am anti-propaganda, because propaganda would mean that you are trying to convince me of something without pointing out the cons with the alleged pros.


So... you don't view this discussion as not propaganda? The modern term of propganda has more so involved to include anything political or vouching for a side. May it be an argument, a fact, half truth and so on. You yourself have technically disseminated propaganda have you not? sure, it's you and I talking, but this is not in a dm. this in a form thread for others to read.
It's how that propganda is used, and what it's being used for. If a nazi made propganda about jews being bad (which has happened) then naturally, that's bad propaganda. Not in the sense of effectiveness but morality speaking. since the statement and what they argue for, is unethical and is usually untrue or half truth. however what marx argues is not untrue. It's how he went to solve it that needs work. Right problem, issues with implementation


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Y
> 
> So... you don't view this discussion as not propaganda? The modern term of propganda has more so involved to include anything political or vouching for a side. May it be an argument, a fact, half truth and so on. You yourself have technically disseminated propaganda have you not? sure, it's you and I talking, but this is not in a dm. this in a form thread for others to read.
> It's how that propganda is used, and what it's being used for. If a nazi made propganda about jews being bad (which has happened) then naturally, that's bad propaganda. Not in the sense of effectiveness but morality speaking. since the statement and what they argue for, is unethical and is usually untrue or half truth. however what marx argues is not untrue. It's how he went to solve it that needs work. Right problem, issues with implementation


Semantics aside, yes I'm saying Just be up front about where you stand and I see no propaganda or rather deceitfulness at all, but merely an honest effort to persuade through conversation. No tricks up your sleeve, none up mine. 
That said I am not a friend of modern marketing, it is both unfairly seductive in that it's all persuasiveness, and exceptionally dishonest.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> That said I am not a friend of modern marketing, it is both unfairly seductive in that it's all persuasiveness, and exceptionally dishonest.


that I agree with.
Moving back somewhat to earlier. Marx made critics that are fairly valid. But as the first person to popularize those critiques (and who also choose to use it. cough cough lennism is gross cough) it's naturally going to have pitfalls until it's further refined. Issue with that is... well... United States and conflicts with other socialist countries, that usually ends up with socialist country's government being in shambles. and to refine it, it requires additional attempts. Same with democracy. you make changes and edits to the base, and what others have changed in hopes it's better


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> that I agree with.
> Moving back somewhat to earlier. Marx made critics that are fairly valid. But as the first person to popularize those critiques (and who also choose to use it. cough cough lennism is gross cough) it's naturally going to have pitfalls until it's further refined. Issue with that is... well... United States and conflicts with other socialist countries, that usually ends up with socialist country's government being in shambles. and to refine it, it requires additional attempts. Same with democracy. you make changes and edits to the base, and what others have changed in hopes it's better



I won't deny that Marx made some valid points, even Hitler had some sane things to say, not to mention Charles Manson of all people, not to compare them to Marx or anything, but you get my point. And yes, some people took his ideas and built upon them, strayed from them, etc. In fact Marx would not consider many people today Marxist who claim to be Marxist, though the core of the philosophy is usually in tact if anything, at least in regards to breaking down all of reality into materialistic value systems. 

The thing is though that while we bumble along, and occasionally get things right, we forget that we don't invent the truth as we go along, the truth is always there for us to discover or re-discover. The problem is though is that as a species we run away from truth more than we run towards it. Most of us can't handle the truth about our self compared to our Self, let alone the hows and whys of the world.


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## Donnie-Burger (Mar 12, 2022)




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## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> Murder isn't built into the capitalist philosophy, that again is a bi-product of laws and regulations not being followed in the first place.


But it kinda is...it's just the slow version of murder where we make sure people can't afford healthcare and eventually can't even afford rent.  Then we turn a blind eye to them once they're homeless, because Americans are conditioned to view those without homes and without capital as less than human.  Maybe that hasn't always been the case, but it sure has been from the 80s onward.



XDel said:


> And who knows, maybe I may see you down on your luck later on down the road, and I decide to hook you up an apple tree of your own so you have food for one, and for seconds, can sell apples of your own if you need. Again I can choose to do this because of free will.


Any economic system that relies on luck and/or charity to meet the most basic needs of its citizens is inherently broken.


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> But it kinda is...it's just the slow version of murder where we make sure people can't afford healthcare and eventually can't even afford rent.  Then we turn a blind eye to them once they're homeless, because Americans are conditioned to view those without homes and without capital as less than human.  Maybe that hasn't always been the case, but it sure has been from the 80s onward.
> 
> 
> Any economic system that relies on luck and/or charity to meet the most basic needs of its citizens is inherently broken.


So move somewhere where the government micro manages your ever move like a child. Or just wait, it will be here soon enough with the way things are going.


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## sarkwalvein (Mar 12, 2022)

No matter where in Ukraine you are, the situation in Ukraine is to the West from Russia, North from Romania, Moldova and the Black Sea, East from Poland and Hungary and South from Belarus.


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## idontgetit (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I know what imperialism is, and allowing potential member nations to voluntarily submit requests to join a club ain't it.  You're even allowed to leave any time you want, as demonstrated by the UK.  That doesn't mean you won't regret it though, as also demonstrated by the UK.


Do you make sandwiches for a living?


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## Cooler3D (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> So move somewhere where the government micro manages your ever move like a child. Or just wait, it will be here soon enough with the way things are going.


It's easy to run away. But I don't want to run away from my own home, I have a moral duty to do everything possible so that "they" run away. I, as a citizen, allowed the problem to arise, did not do enough to prevent it. A soldier of a neighboring state should not risk his life, solving the problems I allowed. And since he's forced to do this, the least I can do in solidarity is stay and back him up.


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Cooler3D said:


> It's easy to run away. But I don't want to run away from my own home, I have a moral duty to do everything possible so that "they" run away. I, as a citizen, allowed the problem to arise, did not do enough to prevent it. A soldier of a neighboring state should not risk his life, solving the problems I allowed. And since he's forced to do this, the least I can do in solidarity is stay and back him up.


How very noble of you, you deserve a medal.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 12, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Which is another reason to rely on oil and gas.


What's that? Keep relying on oil and gas and make ourselves self-sufficient on it? Totally agree.



Dr_Faustus said:


> Speaking of communist what about those Trump supporters who are so twisted about the current presidency that they would openly accept communism instead?
> 
> Tell me, how does it feel knowing that your party has been manipulated so much by external forces that it becomes a snake eating its own tail. You have become what your paranoid nightmares tried to fight.


>Trump supports
>supporting communism at the same time
I know I shouldn't do attacks, but statements like this man. You're a few pickles short of a barrel, huh? Has humanity really gotten progressively dumber? We've regressed instead of evolved and it's just sad. It should be a scientific study on how low a person's intelligence can become.


Nothereed said:


> Hold on let me get you by the record.
> Do you think holding military aid over a  country who knows they are going to be invaded, for a favor?
> Are you seriously telling me that's not substantial. That if zelinsky did not do the favor trump asked, that he and everyone in Ukraine right now wouldn't be struggling a quite a bit more?
> Your telling me that it is not substantial, so I am giving you a chance right now to walk back on that statement.


How about you walk back out your ass instead? I stand by it. Nothing substantial. Kiss the place where the sun don't shine for all I care.

This is why I'm done "debating" with you morons, it's like trying to push an unmovable wall. Even mules are less stubborn than people here.


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## KingVamp (Mar 12, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> What's that? Relying on green energy make ourselves self-sufficient on it? Totally agree.


And lessen pollution and security risks. You got it.


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 12, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> And lessen reliance on foreign powers and climate lies. You got it.


At least we agree.


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## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> So move somewhere where the government micro manages your ever move like a child. Or just wait, it will be here soon enough with the way things are going.


Acknowledging that food/water, shelter, clothing, and medicine should be the bare necessities in terms of human rights is not the same thing as asking to live in a dictatorship.  And we know that because there are plenty of dictatorships around the world (historical and modern) that don't acknowledge these things as human rights either.

Hell, we haven't even lived up to the "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" slogan.  Those correspond directly to healthcare, the justice system, and education, all three of which have been privatized to varying degrees.

Ever ask yourself: why is everything indexed to inflation _except_ wages? It's a feature, not a bug.


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## Nothereed (Mar 12, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> How about you walk back out your ass instead? I stand by it. Nothing substantial. Kiss the place where the sun don't shine for all I care.


Wow...You really do support fucking over another country, forcing them to bend to a political favor for them to not get fucking annihilated by another country. Fucking imperialist piece of crap. We are done here, that's not negotiable. Your rhetoric is as awful as the abusive mothers who take their grown up kid when they are struggling finacially, and then holding all their belongings, over their head for favors.


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## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Acknowledging that food/water, shelter, clothing, and medicine should be the bare necessities in terms of human rights is not the same thing as asking to live in a dictatorship.  And we know that because there are plenty of dictatorships around the world (historical and modern) that don't acknowledge these things as human rights either.
> 
> Hell, we haven't even lived up to the "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" slogan.  Those correspond directly to healthcare, the justice system, and education, all three of which have been privatized to varying degrees.
> 
> Ever ask yourself: why is everything indexed to inflation _except_ wages? It's a feature, not a bug.


I didn't realize there was no food, shelter, clothing, medicine and such in America.


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## Xzi (Mar 12, 2022)

XDel said:


> I didn't realize there was no food, shelter, clothing, medicine and such in America.


Now you're just playing dumb.  Forcing the poor to depend on the rich to supply these things makes capitalism no better than medieval serfdom.  It's the same way the USSR operated, and it's the same way North Korea operates now.  Declaring these things as human rights is the best method of installing the safeguards against oligarchy that I was talking about earlier.


----------



## XDel (Mar 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Now you're just playing dumb.  Forcing the poor to depend on the rich to supply these things makes capitalism no better than medieval serfdom.  It's the same way the USSR operated, and it's the same way North Korea operates now.  Declaring these things as human rights is the best method of installing the safeguards against oligarchy that I was talking about earlier.



 The health system does need improvement, there are too many people who need operations, yet can not afford it and do not happen to have the good fortune of having a job with good insurance. That said, not all rich people live off the proverbial poor, I have known many rich people who spend their lives investing in people who have dreams and visions, which generates capital, so time and time again they've given people with the know how the head start and opportunity that they would not have had otherwise. Not everyone is a Klaus Schwab, Nanci Peloski, Joe Biden, Clinton, George Sorros, and the like.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 13, 2022)

XDel said:


> That said, not all rich people live off the proverbial poor


Nonsense.  Even for the very few who don't partake in wage theft and actually pay living wages, they're still reliant on the working class to maintain their luxurious standard of living.  And that's all assuming their inherited wealth isn't blood money to begin with, like Elon Musk's family and their apartheid emerald mines.

Besides, the "good ones" would not be offended by a second bill of rights that guarantees those things to all Americans anyway.


----------



## XDel (Mar 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Nonsense.  Even for the very few who don't partake in wage theft and actually pay living wages, they're still reliant on the working class to maintain their luxurious standard of living.  And that's all assuming their inherited wealth isn't blood money to begin with, like Elon Musk's family and their apartheid emerald mines.
> 
> Besides, the "good ones" would not be offended by a second bill of rights that guarantees those things to all Americans anyway.


Marxist theory, hurray!


----------



## Xzi (Mar 13, 2022)

XDel said:


> Marxist theory, hurray!


Call it Marxist if you want, but if you wanna build a sustainable human-first economy, not _everything_ can be subject to the profit motive.  Short of that, you're just cheering for oligarchs to seize complete control of America sooner rather than later.


----------



## XDel (Mar 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Call it Marxist if you want, but if you wanna build a sustainable human-first economy, not _everything_ can be subject to the profit motive.  Short of that, you're just cheering for oligarchs to seize complete control of America sooner rather than later.


 Again though, that is what the Constitution and Bill of rights are there for in part, that is why we developed Anti-Monopoly laws and such, but as we can both see, they sure as hell are not being followed, hence the reason the mega corporations are currently able to censor and silence any voice they wish, including the president of all people.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 13, 2022)

XDel said:


> Again though, that is what the Constitution and Bill of rights are there for in part, that is why we developed Anti-Monopoly laws and such, but as we can both see, they sure as hell are not being followed, hence the reason the mega corporations are currently able to censor and silence any voice they wish, including the president of all people.


The bill of rights just doesn't go quite far enough, and even if antitrust laws were being properly enforced, you'd still have a very small group of like-minded oligarchs controlling essential industries.  FDR saw this coming all the way back in 1933, which is why he proposed a second bill of workers' rights, but that was never actually codified.  Way past time to bring it back with some modern revisions.


----------



## XDel (Mar 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The bill of rights just doesn't go quite far enough, and even if antitrust laws were being properly enforced, you'd still have a very small group of like-minded oligarchs controlling essential industries.  FDR saw this coming all the way back in 1933, which is why he proposed a second bill of workers' rights, but that was never actually codified.  Way past time to bring it back with some modern revisions.



I think we both agree that the system has issues


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 13, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Wow...You really do support fucking over another country, forcing them to bend to a political favor for them to not get fucking annihilated by another country. Fucking imperialist piece of crap. We are done here, that's not negotiable. Your rhetoric is as awful as the abusive mothers who take their grown up kid when they are struggling finacially, and then holding all their belongings, over their head for favors.


Go project to someone who gives a fuck.


----------



## spoggi (Mar 13, 2022)

I've heard putin have cancer in his little brain


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 13, 2022)

spoggi said:


> I've heard putin have cancer in his little brain


several news outlets reported that, and, not that I rule out the possibility, but right now the info we have about it is too weak. If you read those news with some attention, it is kinda dumb the reasons they gave, they are the following:

- he is with erratic temperament
- he is afraid of covid
- he is ugly

There are too many people with those "symptoms" right now that do not have brain cancer.


----------



## chrisrlink (Mar 13, 2022)

spoggi said:


> I've heard putin have cancer in his little brain


hopefully his heart isn't hooked up to his big red button to go off when he dies


----------



## Benja81 (Mar 13, 2022)

This situation shows that the people are responsible for ousting their corrupted leaders. Past conflicts such as Korea/Vietnam prove that America cannot and should not be the world police for democracy; its not only not possible but nobody really wants that anyway, not even most of her own people. How many times did Putin corrupt the voting system and change the constitution in order to keep being reelected? When clearly his ship had sailed long ago. So now the people of Ukraine are fighting him, and eventually Russian citizens will need to fight for a real Democracy, if they want one again. Please don't get me wrong I am not at all blaming the Russian people for the crisis, plus I know plenty of Russians tried to stand up to him. I also wont say I know what the answer is, how to take him down, but do know this crisis is clearly on Putin's head. Democracy is by no means perfect, but when working properly it exhibits at least _some _control over incompetent/psychopathic leaders, once they are exposed for what they are. Assuming it's not corrupted.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 13, 2022)

Benja81 said:


> Assuming it's not corrupted.


Which is impossible, or at least has never happened yet.


----------



## Benja81 (Mar 13, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Which is impossible, or at least has never happened yet.


Of course not, we are human.
I guess should say, assuming it's not corrupted too much.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 13, 2022)

Russia asks China for military assistance in its invasion of Ukraine​Ouch  I guess The Formal “superpower” is doing worse then people believe…   Can’t wait for Russia to become the “United China” after Putin self all Russian assets to the CCP


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 13, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Russia asks China for military assistance in its invasion of Ukraine​Ouch  I guess The Formal “superpower” is doing worse then people believe…   Can’t wait for Russia to become the “United China” after Putin self all Russian assets to the CCP


Your link is paid content here, I cant read, but on Washington Post they state as source "U.S. officials". While the WP itself has good reputation, U.S. officials do not. They deliberately lied a million times for geopolitical reasons (the chemical warfare on Iraq maybe is the most emblematic on that matter), and now I see a huge effort from USA to involve China in this conflict (at least on the Internet). Right now all it just seems American propaganda.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 13, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> While the WP itself has good reputation, U.S. officials do not.


US officials: "Russia is gonna invade Ukraine"
Russia and everybody else: "nuh-uh"
Russia: invades Ukraine
Insert surprised Pikachu face

On this issue at least, it's hard to deny that they've been pretty reliable.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 14, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Your link is paid content here, I cant read, but on Washington Post they state as source "U.S. officials". While the WP itself has good reputation, U.S. officials do not. They deliberately lied a million times for geopolitical reasons (the chemical warfare on Iraq maybe is the most emblematic on that matter), and now I see a huge effort from USA to involve China in this conflict (at least on the Internet). Right now all it just seems American propaganda.





Xzi said:


> US officials: "Russia is gonna invade Ukraine"
> Russia and everybody else: "nuh-uh"
> Russia: invades Ukraine
> Insert surprised Pikachu face
> ...


yea, everything the US official predicted has come true. At this point, US is just spilling any secrets it hears and IT working to make Public sentiment rally the world ... (minus the standard people, who by the way are neutral.)


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 14, 2022)

I still find it funny that he decided to invade now instead of when Trump was in office since everybody said Trump was clearly in Putin's pocket and so invading while Trump was in would've been a cakewalk assuredly, but he instead invades when Trump gets out and a new, more "tougher" president is in office and now he decides to invade. I gotta say, respect the 4th dimensional chess here, don't invade when you have an easier chance to, make it harder for yourself.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 14, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I still find it funny that he decided to invade now instead of when Trump was in office since everybody said Trump was clearly in Putin's pocket and so invading while Trump was in would've been a cakewalk assuredly


The plan was always to invade now, Putin wanted to appease China by allowing them to finish hosting the Olympics first.  He was just hoping Trump would be re-elected so he could waltz right in and take Ukraine with far less Western backlash.  Recall that Trump attempted to blackmail Ukraine by withholding military aid until they dug up some dirt on Biden for him.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Recall that Trump attempted to blackmail Ukraine by withholding military aid until they dug up some dirt on Biden for him.


He doesn't care about that part, don't waste your breath. He called it insignificant even though I pointed the exact same thing out. I even provide the chance for him to walk back on that statement, he did not. Even though witholding military aid for a country that knows they're going to be invaded for a favor, is astronomically corrupt/morally bankrupt.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The plan was always to invade now, Putin wanted to appease China by allowing them to finish hosting the Olympics first.  He was just hoping Trump would be re-elected so he could waltz right in and take Ukraine with far less Western backlash.  Recall that Trump attempted to blackmail Ukraine by withholding military aid until they dug up some dirt on Biden for him.


So he waited 4 years to invade so Trump could get re-elected instead of invading right away, the first or second year, of Trump's presidency? That still doesn't make sense. If something's easier, why wait? If you're a criminal for example, what would be easier, break into someone else's house when no one's home and is unlocked, or do it when the entire family is home and the place is locked up tight? And the dirt on Biden and his son had been out there for a few years now out in the open, at least the dirt the FBI didn't cover up or withheld.


Nothereed said:


> He doesn't care about that part, don't waste your breath. He called it insignificant even though I pointed the exact same thing out. I even provide the chance for him to walk back on that statement, he did not. Even though witholding military aid for a country that knows they're going to be invaded for a favor, is astronomically corrupt/morally bankrupt.


Dude, shut the fuck up already. You're just wasting post space now.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 14, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude, shut the fuck up already. You're just wasting post space now.


I wasn't even responding to you, after all


BitMasterPlus said:


> *This is why I'm done "debating" with you morons*


I was just trying to save xzi "post space" from debating from what is *ahem*
_ a clearly obvious superior intellectual to us morons_


----------



## omgcat (Mar 14, 2022)

Dark Ronin said:


> https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/07/ukraine-destroying-evidence-of-us-funded-bioweapons/
> 
> https://strangesounds.org/2022/02/u...documents-from-the-website-here-they-are.html
> 
> Happy explaining, dear US.


your site also lists this: https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/13/gov-report-proves-triple-vaccinated-have-ade/

are you actually retarded?


----------



## omgcat (Mar 14, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I still find it funny that he decided to invade now instead of when Trump was in office since everybody said Trump was clearly in Putin's pocket and so invading while Trump was in would've been a cakewalk assuredly, but he instead invades when Trump gets out and a new, more "tougher" president is in office and now he decides to invade. I gotta say, respect the 4th dimensional chess here, don't invade when you have an easier chance to, make it harder for yourself.


if i was a betting man, i'd say he was expecting trump to get a second term and pull us out of NATO.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 14, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> So he waited 4 years to invade so Trump could get re-elected instead of invading right away, the first or second year, of Trump's presidency?


You're not understanding, he didn't "wait."  The plan was always to invade in 2022, regardless of who the US president was going to be.  The whole thing was coordinated with China, because Putin knew he'd need their support, and they were intending to do the same thing with Taiwan after a "test run" in Ukraine.  They may well have reconsidered now that they've seen how FUBAR the situation in Ukraine is, or at least I certainly hope they have.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> and they were intending to do the same thing with Taiwan after a "test run" in Ukraine.



one problem with China supporting Russia, China obviously doesn't want areas like Donetsk and Luhansk claiming independence, when they have their own problems with H/K and Taiwan.



​


----------



## Xzi (Mar 14, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> one problem with China supporting Russia, China obviously doesn't want areas like Donetsk and Luhansk claiming independence, when they have their own problems with H/K and Taiwan.


But they didn't declare independence of their own volition, Putin basically declared it for them as flimsy justification to move the Russian military into those regions.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 14, 2022)

djpannda said:


> yea, everything the US official predicted has come true. At this point, US is just spilling any secrets it hears and IT working to make Public sentiment rally the world ... (minus the standard people, who by the way are neutral.)


lol
meanwhile during trump era Russia didn't have guts to attack anyone
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/597993-trump-tears-into-biden-amid-ukraine-conflict


> “And now Biden is crawling around the globe on his knees begging and pleading for mercy from Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela,” Trump said.


ALL hail trump f#ck biden


----------



## djpannda (Mar 14, 2022)

Ouch that has to be a hurtful blow to Putin..



You know Kazakhstan, the country that invited Kremlin peacekeepers to stop protest in the country two month ago..
Kazakhstan, the country that the Kremlin considered had its back but  Refused to send troops to Ukraine and not sends aid to Ukraine.. 
At this point Kermlin has not direct support from anyone (Belarus is a puppet state)


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 14, 2022)

Man, it probably really sucks to be Russian right now even if you're against the war..

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/it-s-ab...y-russian-piano-prodigy-in-montreal-1.5814506


----------



## djpannda (Mar 14, 2022)

Lol you can censor the Internet but People always find a way


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 14, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Man, it probably really sucks to be Russian right now even if you're against the war..
> 
> https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/it-s-ab...y-russian-piano-prodigy-in-montreal-1.5814506



That's simply stupid. Completely and utterly absurd. That is institutionalized prejudice based on nationality, borderline racism.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 14, 2022)

AlexMCS said:


> That's simply stupid. Completely and utterly absurd. That is institutionalized prejudice based on nationality, borderline racism.


Which is why it’s important to distinguish between  Russians and Kremlin.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 14, 2022)

Oligarchs wants Putin assassinated


----------



## XDel (Mar 14, 2022)

This was a very well put letter from the CEO of Odysee:


Odysee & Freedom of the Press: A Letter From Our CEO​March 14th, 2022579 views

Odysee
@Odysee

We've gotten flack lately for standing up for freedom of the press, specifically for platforming RT and Sputnik.
Here's the thing: what's happening to the Ukrainian people and their country is horrible. But to punish all Russians (and people simply associated with Russia) for this is simply absurd.
Like, Russian hockey players are losing sponsorships
just for being Russian. What sense does that make?


The above is obviously crazy, what's a more difficult sell is what we've been attempting to say:


We are a video platform. We want to allow competing voices in journalism, whether they're CNN, Fox, RT, Sputnik or anyone else, and we aren't interested in telling you what to think. And not in a "it's an important to be a free thinker" way, but in a "no, seriously; we don't care about your political views" way.


Believe it or not, but RT and Sputnik journalists are people too. They not only lost their jobs, but had their reputations as journalists come under fire, being characterised as "corrupt journalists receiving memos directly from the Kremlin."


Is this true? Well, we don't really know anything about the inner-workings of RT or Sputnik, so that's not for us to say.


But even if RT or Sputnik are completely biased and get their talking points directly from Putin himself, we would still consider it important to allow them to be heard, if for no other reason than to have a better understanding of the propaganda being disseminated to the Russian people.


For these reasons, Odysee will not be removing any journalists affiliated with Russian networks or Russian news networks themselves. We support freedom of the press, and this will not change.


Julian Chandra
Chief Executive Officer
Odysee, Inc.

https://odysee.com/@Odysee:8/freedomofthepress:0


----------



## djpannda (Mar 14, 2022)

Yup the video was not only real but she also prerelease a video explaining it


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> But they didn't declare independence of their own volition, Putin basically declared it for them as flimsy justification to move the Russian military into those regions.


False. They declared independence years ago. Russia did not recognize it because they were hoping for the implementation of the Minsk agreements (autonomy within Ukraine).

There is a fascnating debate on Politically Provoked (channel banned on Youtube) about Ukraine: Richard Spencer vs Infrared. You can find it on Odysee. So much more nuanced than "Putin/West evil!"


----------



## Xzi (Mar 14, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> False. They declared independence years ago.


Bull.  There might've been some individuals calling for that, but nobody with the authority to actually make it official.  Otherwise Putin wouldn't have needed to declare the regions "independent" a second time recently.  And when he says "independent," he actually means "Russian territory."


----------



## XDel (Mar 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You're not understanding, he didn't "wait."  The plan was always to invade in 2022, regardless of who the US president was going to be.  The whole thing was coordinated with China, because Putin knew he'd need their support, and they were intending to do the same thing with Taiwan after a "test run" in Ukraine.  They may well have reconsidered now that they've seen how FUBAR the situation in Ukraine is, or at least I certainly hope they have.



Which is why we had a coup in the U.S. during the election. GREAT RESET!


----------



## Xzi (Mar 14, 2022)

XDel said:


> Which is why we had a coup in the U.S. during the election. GREAT RESET!


*Failed coup.  I don't believe in your conspiracy theory, but even if I did, it's a guarantee that the Republican party would also be in on it.  So why would it matter who the president is in a two-party system where both parties are right-wing and capitalist?


----------



## XDel (Mar 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> *Failed coup.  I don't believe in your conspiracy theory, but even if I did, it's a guarantee that the Republican party would also be in on it.  So why would it matter who the president is in a two-party system where both parties are right-wing and capitalist?



The Republicans were in on it, and besides, titles don't make a man.


----------



## XDel (Mar 14, 2022)




----------



## Xzi (Mar 14, 2022)

Anonymous has hacked Russian oil giant Rosneft, securing 20TB of data in the process.

https://www.macaubusiness.com/hackers-target-german-branch-of-russian-oil-giant-rosneft/


----------



## djpannda (Mar 15, 2022)

Well  we are on a crossroad the same FSB agent leaked that Putin  was going to give the West 24h ultimatum to lift sanction or else


Will Putin declare WWIII


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 15, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I wasn't even responding to you, after all


You were still talking about me, so I responded.


omgcat said:


> if i was a betting man, i'd say he was expecting trump to get a second term and pull us out of NATO.


If its anything like the UN, would it be really that bad at this point?


Xzi said:


> You're not understanding, he didn't "wait."  The plan was always to invade in 2022, regardless of who the US president was going to be.  The whole thing was coordinated with China, because Putin knew he'd need their support, and they were intending to do the same thing with Taiwan after a "test run" in Ukraine.  They may well have reconsidered now that they've seen how FUBAR the situation in Ukraine is, or at least I certainly hope they have.


Yes, he did wait, because if Trump was in Putin's pocket from the get go, then he wouldn't have to wait so long to do what he did, it's as simple as that. Everybody called Trump a warmonger and the guy to start World War 3, but look who's in office right now? But it's still somehow Trump's fault, of course.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 15, 2022)

This whole situation is getting more and more fucked up, from Neo Nazi battalions being revealed in Ukraine's army, to Ukraine hiring mercenaries to get blown up to get more aid from other countries. This is turning into another situation where there's no side to root for. I feel sorry for all the innocent people suffering through all of this though.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 15, 2022)

yeah i see it how you have post power syndrom after russia freeing ukraine from the neo nazi's ideologist, you didn't ready for a rival that could match US and its allies alone

soon middle eastern, africa join allegiance with Russia, North Korea, China, Vietnam


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> This whole situation is getting more and more fucked up, from Neo Nazi battalions being revealed in Ukraine's army, to Ukraine hiring mercenaries to get blown up to get more aid from other countries. This is turning into another situation where there's no side to root for. I feel sorry for all the innocent people suffering through all of this though.


blame it to biden incompetence, during trump era russia are afraid to make a move


----------



## djpannda (Mar 15, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> yeah i see it how you have post power syndrom after russia freeing ukraine from the neo nazi's ideologist, you didn't ready for a rival that could match US and its allies alone
> 
> soon middle eastern, africa join allegiance with Russia, North Korea, China, Vietnam


lol sure Russia starving literally
Russia asks China for meal kits for soldiers amid claims of food shortages on frontline​Russia is two sec way from becoming CCP property...  not to mention the world stopped Fearing the "mighty" RED army. Lol Got Destroyed by a nation 1-20 the size.
plus again this was never bout "nazi" as that so called Nazi Group had less then 900 member and Ukriane has a pop of 42 mil


----------



## djpannda (Mar 15, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> blame it to biden incompetence, during trump era russia are afraid to make a move


yup Russian were too scared to make their own puppet look bad.. Trump was just Lukashenko with hair implants,


----------



## djpannda (Mar 15, 2022)

This alone should be the reason GBATemp should be against This Russia War Crime


----------



## omgcat (Mar 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> This alone should be the reason GBATemp should be against This Russia War Crime



nah they'll just hand wave it away as fake new. half the people here have CLEARLY fallen for the propaganda.


----------



## XDel (Mar 15, 2022)

Tulsi Gabbard Attacked For Telling The Truth About U.S. Biolabs In Ukraine


----------



## XDel (Mar 15, 2022)




----------



## djpannda (Mar 15, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> .


oh hey look another Brand New " non-burner" account that posted first to the political section.... Sure Comrade sure


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Everybody called Trump a warmonger and the guy to start World War 3


He did try to invade Iran even after losing the election.



BitMasterPlus said:


> But it's still somehow Trump's fault, of course.


It's Putin's fault, Trump was just his useful idiot.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> It's insanity for them to say what Russia is doing is "illegal."


Bombing hospitals and schools is very much a war crime.  It doesn't make any difference what kinds of unethical laws Russia may have implemented in an attempt to justify these atrocities.  I'm sure it was "legal" for Hitler to gas the Jews too, by his own definition of legality.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> You have proof it was Russia who bombed the hospital? Or did you hear it 4th hand through corporate news?


They've bombed over 60 hospitals lmao.  Try watching/reading any source other than RT and maybe you'll be better informed.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 15, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> You have proof it was Russia who bombed the hospital? Or did you hear it 4th hand through corporate news? Never thought I'd see people actually supporting Nazi battalions, Azov, Aidar, Wolverines, Right-Sector.  lol


God, this is the Reason why people make Fun of Americans...


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> Never thought I'd see people actually supporting Nazi battalions, Azov, Aidar, Wolverines, Right-Sector. lol


I'm literally only supporting Ukrainians' right to defend their own sovereign territory.  Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around.



ffe3301 said:


> In Iraq and Afghanistan we smoked civilians on the regular. No other super power went to war with us over it. You're a hypocrite to call what Russia is doing a war crime, when we have been doing it for 20 years.


Obviously you don't know me very well, I've been calling out actions in Afghanistan and Iraq as war crimes since we first invaded.  Hell, even the invasions themselves were war crimes, as the American people were lied to repeatedly about the circumstances surrounding them.  GWB and Dick Cheney should receive the same type of torture they inflicted on so many others at Guantanamo, and then spend the rest of their lives in jail.  Ditto for Vladimir Putin.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 15, 2022)

SG854 said:


> No it's not


You thought the UN was good until Elon told you about the pedo stuff.


Lucaserf said:


> Has NATO invaded a sovereign country in order to avoid that? Has NATO made up stuff in order to justify an invasion?


Youre right. The Biden family no involvement in Ukraine. That's just not real.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 15, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It takes an evil person to amass a dragon's hoard of wealth and still want more.  Again I say, _every_ oligarch is evil.  We just have more receipts on Trump than most other billionaires because he ran for public office and because of how many times he's been sued.
> 
> 
> "I wish Putin would fire a nuke because someone on the internet disagrees with my political views."  Real mature


Some places work better as olgarchs and dictatorships. As demonstrated by Lybia before America entered. Just because the king and queen is usually a man and a woman. And things work. Does not make it evil.

Chadimir Putin


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> You thought the UN was good until Elon told you about the pedo stuff.


Elon literally calls everybody a pedo, it's probably projection.  Remember that rescue diver?



idontgetit said:


> Youre right. The Biden family no involvement in Ukraine. That's just not real.


Don't think Putin mentioned Hunter Biden as one of the reasons he invaded Ukraine.



idontgetit said:


> Some places work better as olgarchs and dictatorships.


They work great for the oligarchs and dictators themselves, sure.  Not at all for the average citizen who gets completely trampled under foot.  The Russian economy has been sent back to the stone ages and will probably stay there for the next two to four decades, but unless he winds up with a bullet in his head, it won't affect Putin's luxurious standard of living at all.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> Fakhrudin Sharafmal on Ukrainian Channel 24 news quotes Adolf Eichmann and calls for the killing of Russian children.
> 
> "I know that as a journalist, I have to be objective, I have to be balanced, in order to report information to you with a cold heart, but to tell you the truth, it's very hard to hold on now, especially at a time like this, and since we are called Nazis, fascists, and so on in Russia - I will allow myself to quote Adolf Eichmann, who said that in order to destroy a nation, you must destroy, first of all, children. Because if you kill their parents, the children will grow up and take revenge. By killing children - they will never grow up and the nation will disappear."


Seems you're trying to spin the context to fit your narrative, because this quote to me sounds like he's referencing all the Ukrainian children being killed by Russia right now.

I of course acknowledge that Ukraine does have Nazis and white nationalist extremists.  So does Russia and so does the US.  It doesn't change the circumstances of this invasion, or who the aggressor is.


----------



## omgcat (Mar 15, 2022)

this is all nuts, never thought i'd see alt-righters sucking putins dick. guess there is a first time for everything. i mean, we are sitting here with people streaming videos of russians blowing up medical infrastructure on purpose, and people are going calling their leader "Chadimir Putin". it's memerific "wtf i love putin now"

fox news consumers suffering major cognitive dissonance once they figured out fox was an arm of the russian state propaganda.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 15, 2022)

Xzi said:


> He did try to invade Iran even after losing the election.


Really? I never heard of that before, but I guess Trump's just sneaky that way.


Xzi said:


> It's Putin's fault, Trump was just his useful idiot.


Of course he is, that's why Putin waited for Trump to leave office and let Biden get in so he couldn't have a useful idiot in his pocket anymore in power and then invade.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 15, 2022)

omgcat said:


> this is all nuts, never thought i'd see alt-righters sucking putins dick. guess there is a first time for everything. i mean, we are sitting here with people streaming videos of russians blowing up medical infrastructure on purpose, and people are going calling their leader "Chadimir Putin". it's memerific "wtf i love putin now"
> 
> fox news consumers suffering major cognitive dissonance once they figured out fox was an arm of the russian state propaganda.


I support Putin invading a country because he wants more power and him blowing up buildings and killing civilians, and I also support Ukraine getting volunteers from other countries so they can lead them to die and get more money for their cause while they keep their neo nazi battalions safe and sound.

This conflict sure has a clear good guy and bad guy huh? Guess those civilians should shut up and suck it up.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Really? I never heard of that before


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/us/politics/trump-iran-nuclear.html

I can get you several other sources if the New York Times offends your delicate sensibilities.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Of course he is, that's why Putin waited for Trump to leave office and let Biden get in so he couldn't have a useful idiot in his pocket anymore in power and then invade.


Just fucking stop.  Trump, not Biden, threatened to withhold military aid to Ukraine, knowing full well Putin's plan was to invade the next year.  Trump, not Biden, called Putin a "genius" for invading Ukraine. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can levy at Biden without resorting to pulling stuff out of your ass.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> .


Cool random video that’s unsourced and mistranslated, bro


----------



## omgcat (Mar 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Ukraine getting volunteers from other countries so they can lead them to die and get more money for their cause while they keep their neo nazi battalions safe and sound.


countries are sending money, arms, supplies, and are offering to provide medical aid to Ukraine.  not a single other country is sending actual troops. Russia is losing a war to a country 3.2x it's size, so now lies are being told about other troops being sent in. sucks that Russia can't beat the Ukrainians with their "world class" military. it is up to ukraine to deal with it's far right militia problem, in the same way that it's america's job to deal with our own. imagine mexico invading america to deal with our christian white nationalist neo-nazi problem. this justification for war is just plain stupid.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 16, 2022)

XDel said:


> Tulsi Gabbard Attacked For Telling The Truth About U.S. Biolabs In Ukraine



lol brainless people can't accept this news, they were more believed on a fake news


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> lol brainless people can't accept this news, they were more believed on a fake news



Yes because a troll video is “news”


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 16, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> Youre right. The Biden family no involvement in Ukraine. That's just not real.


Whatever your schizophrenia tells you...

Do you also think Russia is marching against a NWO as well?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

So going back on Topic 

Man the Russian War crime are really piling up 
Russian troops shoot civilian with hands up – German media evidence 

And tommrow Putin and The Russian Military will be forever be labeled as War Criminals 
Russia-Ukraine conflict: ICJ to rule Wednesday on genocide claims​


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Ahh nothing unites All Americans (heck the world) like our Hatred of Putin 
U.S. Senate unanimously condemns Putin as war criminal​


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> "nothing unites All Americans (heck the world) like our Hatred of Putin"


nothing unites American Politicos like their Love of War.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> nothing unites American Politicos like their Love of War.


So you choose literally the one time that we're all condemning an act of war to point that out?  Even the Republicans knew that supporting Putin right now is a bad look, and that says something because they have no shame.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Mar 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> So you choose literally the one time that we're all condemning an act of war to point that out?  Even the Republicans knew that supporting Putin right now is a bad look, and that says something because they have no shame.


I speak the truth.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> I speak the truth.


In the historical sense, yes.  In the present tense, not so much.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> So going back on Topic
> 
> Man the Russian War crime are really piling up
> Russian troops shoot civilian with hands up – German media evidence
> ...


We won't harm civilians - Putin


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/us/politics/trump-iran-nuclear.html
> 
> I can get you several other sources if the New York Times offends your delicate sensibilities.


Can't even read it since I need a subscription anyways, but I can still smell the faint smell of BS somewhere.


Xzi said:


> Just fucking stop.  Trump, not Biden, threatened to withhold military aid to Ukraine, knowing full well Putin's plan was to invade the next year.  Trump, not Biden, called Putin a "genius" for invading Ukraine. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can levy at Biden without resorting to pulling stuff out of your ass.


Can't stop the funk my man. But really, he had a 4 year window according to all the people who claimed Putin had Trump in his pocket. If Trump was re-elected, I'm pretty sure he would've rethunk any invasion, but Biden got in, botched the Afghanistan withdrawal to all hell and made a laughingstock of us to the entire world, so yeah, Putin is a genius for invading Ukraine now because he knows the current fuckwit in office can't do a damn thing to stop him without escalating further or making it worse as he usually does! Sanctions on Russian oil? Oh man, I can hear Putin shaking in his boots at that right now. This isn't out of my ass, it's what's actually happening right now. It's not my problem you want to be an ignorant prick about it.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> If Trump was re-elected, I'm pretty sure he would've rethunk any invasion


Trump's behavior prior to the election informs what his behavior would've been after the election.  Before the election he was attempting to weaken the Ukrainian military, and he was never stingy when it came to complimenting his dream daddy Putin.



BitMasterPlus said:


> so yeah, Putin is a genius for invading Ukraine now


Ahh there we go.  Can never stray too far from what Trump is telling you to think, eh?  He's a morbidly obese geriatric pedophile with narcissistic personality disorder.  Get better role models already.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Sanctions on Russian oil? Oh man, I can hear Putin shaking in his boots at that right now.


The Russian economy and stock market is literally dead, and Putin has repeatedly bitched about the sanctions.  I'm not sure what else you expect Biden to do, short of dragging us into World War 3 with a moderate to high chance of total nuclear annihilation.  Trump would be more likely to nuke Canada than get into a conflict with his biggest financier, we already saw that demonstrated when he abandoned the Kurds to Putin's brand of imperialism.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Trump's behavior prior to the election informs what his behavior would've been after the election.  Before the election he was attempting to weaken the Ukrainian military, and he was never stingy when it came to complimenting his dream daddy Putin.
> 
> Ahh there we go.  Can never stray too far from what Trump is telling you to think, eh?  He's a morbidly obese geriatric pedophile with narcissistic personality disorder.  Get better role models already.
> 
> The Russian economy and stock market is literally dead, and Putin has repeatedly bitched about the sanctions.  I'm not sure what else you expect Biden to do, short of dragging us into World War 3 with a moderate to high chance of total nuclear annihilation.  Trump would be more likely to nuke Canada than get into a conflict with his biggest financier, we already saw that demonstrated when he abandoned the Kurds to Putin's brand of imperialism.


Trump never tried to weaken the Ukrainian military - he was using leverage. I didn’t hear the same pearl clutching when Obama withheld aid to Ukraine, Pakistan, Colombia, Philippines, Egypt, Honduras, Mexico, the list goes on. At some point people on the left will have to accept that not everything is Orange Boogeyman’s fault - Biden showed weakness towards Russia numerous times, lifting restrictions on their pipeline and escaping from Afghanistan in a hurry (this one gets blamed on Trump too, even though the Biden withdrawal did not proceed to plan at all). At the end of the day there were two periods of Russian aggression against Ukraine - one under Obama and one under Biden. Trump always held the facade of the guy with the big button, and that worked perfectly fine against both Putin and Kim. It wasn’t “presidential”, he got criticised for cosying up to dictators, but ultimately there weren’t any dead Ukrainians in the streets. The whole point was to create the image of a guy you’d rather be friends than enemies with, and it was effective, like it or not. I also disagree with your take on “praising Putin” - I’ve read the statement and it does not come across as praise, it’s an accurate assessment of a strategic decision. He said specifically that Putin’s brilliant for using a peacekeeping justification, especially given the timing. Putin expected the west’s response to be toothless, and so far the only sanctions are economic, so it is toothless in a way. In slightly different circumstances, ideally during summer, Ukraine could have well fallen by now. Putin’s mistake was rush - complete lack of preparation in case blitzkrieg doesn’t work out. Now we’re weeks into the conflict and western powers had to respond in one way or another - if Putin’s plan worked and Kiev fell within the week, a peace treaty would be drafted by now and nobody would dare to huff or puff about it, just like last time. Ukrainians are extremely lucky that the stars aligned in their favour, and that the Russian military showed every sign of incompetence possible, in spite of having an overwhelming advantage. That’s all besides the point though - the war didn’t start because of Trump and the Ukrainians aren’t winning because of Biden. This conflict revolves solely around Putin and his delusion of grandeur. He misses the good ‘ol Soviet Union. Never trust a red.


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Trump never tried to weaken the Ukrainian military - he was using leverage.


Said leverage is a threat... to the
ukraine military....
Either:
They comply with what was demanded.
Or get their teeth kicked in, head smashed and oh hey do I smell a fire?


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I didn’t hear the same pearl clutching when Obama withheld aid to Ukraine


Yeah let me stop you right there. I don't like Obama, but your making a false equivalency statement.
What Obama did was CONGRESSIONALLY SUPPORTED. As in, you know, got the support of Congress to do that?
While trump did it on a phone call, without Congress permission, without congress coordination. (the president does not control the budget. It's approved by congress) so yeah that's pretty null argument.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Trump never tried to weaken the Ukrainian military - he was using leverage.


Right, otherwise known as blackmail. For dirt on Biden that Ukraine literally didn't have.  Nobody said Trump was the sharpest tool in the shed, but he still tried to weaken the Ukrainian military at a time when he already knew Russia had designs on invasion.



Foxi4 said:


> At some point people on the left will have to accept that not everything is Orange Boogeyman’s fault


I've been saying this entire time the invasion of Ukraine was/is completely Putin's fault.  Trump was just his useful stooge, less so now that he's losing influence and continuing to pick the morally bankrupt side on every issue.



Foxi4 said:


> The whole point was to create the image of a guy you’d rather be friends than enemies with, and it was effective, like it or not.


Trump is the furthest possible thing from likable.  The truth is that even Kim Jong Un took one look at him and knew he could play the idiot like a fiddle.  Pay Trump a single compliment and he'll give you nukes (hyperbole, but just barely).  That's NPD for you, and it's why people with that disorder should never ever be president.



Foxi4 said:


> He said specifically that Putin’s brilliant for using a peacekeeping justification, especially given the timing.


Still shows support for a war criminal, and still not even remotely accurate.  Nobody bought that flimsy excuse.  The second Putin declared two regions of Ukraine "independent," the media started correctly categorizing it as an invasion.



Foxi4 said:


> Putin expected the west’s response to be toothless, and so far the only sanctions are economic, so it is toothless in a way.


The sanctions cut Putin's war chest literally in half, and Ukraine reports that up to 40% of Russian invaders have been killed.  There is a very real possibility that this ends up a total loss by Russia to a military about a quarter of the size.



Foxi4 said:


> In slightly different circumstances, ideally during summer, Ukraine could have well fallen by now.


Disagree.  It's obvious in hindsight that Russia's bark has been much bigger than its bite for decades.  They paid out to manufacture a few "show" models of newer military tech/equipment, but the vast majority of what they've got is from the 1980s or even WW2.



Foxi4 said:


> This conflict revolves solely around Putin and his delusion of grandeur. He misses the good ‘ol Soviet Union.


On that we can agree.  Right-wing boomers always want to take their countries back in time when they gain power, rather than doing anything to improve things in the here and now.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> plus again this was never bout "nazi" as that so called Nazi Group had less then 900 member and Ukriane has a pop of 42 mil


I don´t know the current size of the Azov battalion but it used to have 3000 men (and were not the only Nazi-glorifing group). Comparing 3000 to 42mio is childish, girly even. 42mio minus half (women) minus half (too old or too young) minus 90% or more who do not actually want to fight or do not know how: round about 1mio men in Ukraine (standing army: 250.000 or something)
3000 men can do a lot of damage, less have taken over large cities in Afghanistan last year.
The Azov battalion openly denied following the orders of the Ukrainian president and he did not punish them.


----------



## smf (Mar 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> If Trump was re-elected, I'm pretty sure he would've rethunk any invasion


Trump & Putin would have been taken a ride on their flying unicorn and spread joy around the world.

Happy Trump & Putin Unicorn day to you.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I don´t know the current size of the Azov battalion but it used to have 3000 men (and were not the only Nazi-glorifing group). Comparing 3000 to 42mio is childish, girly even. 42mio minus half (women) minus half (too old or too young) minus 90% or more who do not actually want to fight or do not know how: round about 1mio men in Ukraine (standing army: 250.000 or something)
> 3000 men can do a lot of damage, less have taken over large cities in Afghanistan last year.
> The Azov battalion openly denied following the orders of the Ukrainian president and he did not punish them.


..you do know people Join Azov to fight Russia not because they were NAZI... but because they were Trying to stop Russian from Destroying Ukraine
but I understand that common sense is difficult when you can only read off an approved script..
lets even use your number 3,000 in a country wit 42 million, so called NAZI Population of 0.007%. and you are saying destroying a country and commit war crimes is justified for 0.007%

so your saying Putin needs to do the same to its own people as Russia Nazi Party RNU has over 1000,000 Members.. funny how Putin attacking 3000 Nazi when he has 100,000 nazis right "inside Him"


----------



## sombrerosonic (Mar 16, 2022)

Man. People argue over everything


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..you do know people Join Azov to fight Russia not because they were NAZI... but because they were Trying to stop Russian from Destroying Ukraine
> but I understand that common sense is difficult when you can only read off an approved script..
> lets even use your number 3,000 in a country wit 42 million, so called NAZI Population of 0.007%. and you are saying destroying a country and commit war crimes is justified for 0.007%
> 
> so your saying Putin needs to do the same to its own people as Russia Nazi Party RNU has over 1000,000 Members.. funny how Putin attacking 3000 Nazi when he has 100,000 nazis right "inside Him"


Since 2014 the Azov battalion has attacked the independence-declaring oblasts in the east. If you support Taiwan independence and American independence, I am sure you have sympathy for Lugansk and Donetsk.
If it is ok to join forces with Nazis (I mean Hitler´s men in 1941), I am sure it must be ok to join forces with Putin´s henchmen (as you would call them) in 2014. 

Saying that only 3000 men are Nazis in Ukraine is like stating that on January 6th only a few thousand people marched on the capitol in the US. Since a lot of them are behind bars, the problem is solved.

Regarding the Nazis in Russia: The Russian government opposes them. If they were attacking villages in Central or East Asia in a military fashion, you can expect a swift response from the Russian government - unlike in Ukraine. The Russian identity is caught between its European origin and Oriental destiny. There is a lot of racism prevalent in the Russian civilization (including Ukraine) dating back to at least the time of the Mongols. The Ukrainians see the Russians as the Eastern hordes, the Russians the Central or East Asian elements of their country. With Russian power declining and Chinese power increasing, we can expect a major flashpoint in Eastern Russia in the distant future. China has not forgotten the theft of land (though it is not on the agenda in the forseeable future) during the 19th century. Russia didn´t used to border Korea.

It is funny how you accuse me of following approved scripts. What I just told you is not welcome at all in China. Officially, Taipei wants those lands back from Russia. Beijing has - at least for now - accepted their loss. Unless you accuse me of following a Russian script, which also doesn´t make sense.
Unlike you I am an actual independent mind.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Regarding the Nazis in Russia: The Russian government opposes them.


lol your whole argument is completely void with that statement. 
You just Proved this Russian War Crime is not about Nazi but Land.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> lol your whole argument is completely void with that statement.


How so?


djpannda said:


> You just Proved this Russian War Crime is not about Nazi but Land.


Both. A NATO Ukraine makes it difficult for Russia to defend itself in tank warfare.


----------



## Coto (Mar 16, 2022)

So Fake News/corrupt NATO members saying how *Ukraine won't join NATO*, when instead, the Ukrainian president kindly asks NATO to close the skies or to at least assist them with jetfighters.

You can clearly see NATO members, like Boris Johnson, being connected to World Economic Forum or other Communist agendas

Real NATO members proving further they stand with Ukraine


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Brand new “non-burner” account, 
*This you?*


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Hey Putin, found some more Nazis… 
“He has Jewish roots”…oh the person who said that is in the Russian Duma.. shocking Putin still has not Denazify the Duma


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 16, 2022)

spoggi said:


> I've heard putin have cancer in his little brain


It would fold in with my theory that he is basically having fun now because he knows he is at the end of his life and just wants to go out in a blaze of chaos of his own making.



djpannda said:


> Russia asks China for military assistance in its invasion of Ukraine​Ouch  I guess The Formal “superpower” is doing worse then people believe…   Can’t wait for Russia to become the “United China” after Putin self all Russian assets to the CCP



My bet is that China will not do anything of this nature as their real plan is to probably watch Russia devalue itself so hard into the ground that China will just take over for everything and absorb Russia into themselves. Its a dangerously smart play if it goes that way (and given that Russian banks/currency are already being helped by China the plan might already be going into full swing.)



omgcat said:


> this is all nuts, never thought i'd see alt-righters sucking putins dick. guess there is a first time for everything. i mean, we are sitting here with people streaming videos of russians blowing up medical infrastructure on purpose, and people are going calling their leader "Chadimir Putin". it's memerific "wtf i love putin now"
> 
> fox news consumers suffering major cognitive dissonance once they figured out fox was an arm of the russian state propaganda.


The Red Scare was always a thing, they just never thought to check from the inside of their party.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> MY bet is that China will not do anything of this nature as their real plan is to probably watch Russia devalue itself so hard into the ground that China will just take over for everything and absorb Russia into themselves. Its a dangerously smart play if it goes that way (and given that Russian banks/currency are already being helped by China the plan might already be going into full swing.)


This is True, Thats why China might provider  *food* in Humanity sense but will not send Military aid. China wins no matter in the 2 out 3 scenarios as long as it does not actively look for War. 
 1) Russia wins and sanctions automatically disappear ( china already bought Russian assets, appears stronger in the worlds eyes)
2) Russia colapses (China buy alll the Russia assets they   not already have and directly Control 1/4 of the planet)
3) WWIII ( best believe China does not want this as it would VOID Most of Chinese  US/Europe ownership and debt (billions over billions)  not to mention All the South American countries will also try to void them also.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> MY bet is that China will not do anything of this nature as their real plan is to probably watch Russia devalue itself so hard into the ground that China will just take over for everything and absorb Russia into themselves. Its a dangerously smart play if it goes that way (and given that Russian banks/currency are already being helped by China the plan might already be going into full swing.)


This is True, Thats why China might provider  *food* in Humanity sense but will not send Military aid. China wins no matter in the 2 out 3 scenarios as long as it does not actively look for War. 
 1) Russia wins and sanctions automatically disappear ( china already bought Russian assets, appears stronger in the worlds eyes)
2) Russia colapses (China buy alll the Russia assets they   not already have and directly Control 1/4 of the planet)
3) WWIII ( best believe China does not want this as it would VOID Most of Chinese  US/Europe ownership and debt (billions over billions)  not to mention All the South American countries will also try to void them also.


----------



## Coto (Mar 16, 2022)

Connected to Ukraine, since Russia's an extension of China up to this point:

Taiwan military holds combat drills near Chinese coast


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

HE Did IT!!


All it took was destroying half of a Sovereign  Nation, killing thousands of civilians, losing about 10,000 Russian Troops (killed,injured and captured) 1000 of Russian Military Vehicles lost, The Destruction   of the Russian Economy  and stock Market, The Social rejection of Russian identity and participation, The total censorship of Media.
a More United NATO and World ( with either Sewden and Norway joining NATO or Creating a New Group)

and the Most likely scenario of Russian government being forced to pay billions to Ukriane to rebuild..

but other then that ........yes SUCCCES !


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How so?
> 
> Both. A NATO Ukraine makes it difficult for Russia to defend itself in tank warfare.


WHAT TANK WARFARE? ITS NOT THE COLD WAR ANYMORE. Why do you believe NATO would invade Russia? You're eating too much Kremlin propaganda


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> WHAT TANK WARFARE? ITS NOT THE COLD WAR ANYMORE. Why do you believe NATO would invade Russia? You're eating too much Kremlin propaganda


handheld Javelins have made Tanks Obsolete.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Right, otherwise known as blackmail. For dirt on Biden that Ukraine literally didn't have.  Nobody said Trump was the sharpest tool in the shed, but he still tried to weaken the Ukrainian military at a time when he already knew Russia had designs on invasion.
> 
> I've been saying this entire time the invasion of Ukraine was/is completely Putin's fault.  Trump was just his useful stooge, less so now that he's losing influence and continuing to pick the morally bankrupt side on every issue.
> 
> ...


We’ll have to agree to disagree on some of the key points then. You’re absolutely correct in saying that economic sanctions have put the Russian economy on its knees, but I’m not seeing any evidence of it putting the military at bay - Russia is keen on using the instrument of force, not honey, to send soldiers into war zones they don’t want to be in. As for describing a former KGB agent as a right-winger, that’s comical. Regarding the state of the military equipment they use, I made that point several pages ago, but I like hearing my own words, so you can keep repeating them as long as you please. 


Nothereed said:


> Said leverage is a threat... to the
> ukraine military....
> Either:
> They comply with what was demanded.
> Or get their teeth kicked in, head smashed and oh hey do I smell a fire?


It’s leverage. “I will delay giving you my money” is not a form of aggression, the president of the United States is not responsible for the budget of a foreign nation.


Nothereed said:


> Yeah let me stop you right there. I don't like Obama, but your making a false equivalency statement.
> What Obama did was CONGRESSIONALLY SUPPORTED. As in, you know, got the support of Congress to do that?
> While trump did it on a phone call, without Congress permission, without congress coordination. (the president does not control the budget. It's approved by congress) so yeah that's pretty null argument.


The president does not require congressional approval for any temporary freeze of funding. Congressional approval is only required to permanently rescind funding. Congress sets the budget via the budget committees, the power to execute is solely in the hands of the executive branch. The Impoundment Control Act describes these procedures in great detail, no law was broken.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Hey look…Russia does not look like it’s in a good standing ! 

But Putin says it’s part of the plan


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Hey look…Russia does not look like it’s in a good standing !
> 
> But Putin says it’s part of the plan


Putin has many options, but at this stage all of them are bad. He can’t retreat because he’ll look weak, he can’t ramp up the attack or he’ll look even more like an aggressor against a sovereign state and not a “defender of Donbas”, his historically revisionist persona. This was supposed to last a few days and end before the international community gets involved, now it’s looking more and more like he should be careful what he eats or drinks. I have a feeling there are certain subsets of the Kremlin that are devising an exit strategy at this point - for Putin, not for the war. It wouldn’t surprise me - the duma is more interested in the economy than in territorial conquest for the sake of stroking an ego. I’ve read that Putin’s very paranoid right now, and I’d be too - he knows, he’s former KGB. Nobody’s too big to “get disappeared”, so to speak. In Russia those rules don’t apply.


----------



## appleburger (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Putin has many options, but at this stage all of them are bad. He can’t retreat because he’ll look weak, he can’t ramp up the attack or he’ll look even more like an aggressor against a sovereign state and not a “defender of Donbas”, his historically revisionist persona. This was supposed to last a few days and end before the international community gets involved, now it’s looking more and more like he should be careful what he eats or drinks. I have a feeling there are certain subsets of the Kremlin that are devising an exit strategy at this point - for Putin, not for the war. It wouldn’t surprise me - the duma is more interested in the economy than in territorial conquest for the sake of stroking an ego. I’ve read that Putin’s very paranoid right now, and I’d be too - he knows, he’s former KGB. Nobody’s too big to “get disappeared”, so to speak. In Russia those rules don’t apply.


I've been wondering about potential exit strategy's being developed, too.  Do people think it's likely Russia could turn on Putin?  I'm not well versed with world political history, so I personally don't know what options are/aren't likely, here.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Russia is keen on using the instrument of force, not honey, to send soldiers into war zones they don’t want to be in.


The "honey," as you call it, is a big part of what gets militaries the outcomes they desire, and a big part of the reason this invasion has been such a colossal failure.  It's the difference between sending your soldiers into battle with bulletproof vests and sending them into battle with multiple layers of t-shirts.  Hell, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Russia has spent more on covering up their losses with cremation trucks than they have on their still-living forces.  When your tenuous grip on power relies on nonstop propaganda, those efforts get expensive quick.



Foxi4 said:


> As for describing a former KGB agent as a right-winger, that’s comical.


Authoritarianism generally falls under the right-wing, and the West's sanctions couldn't have possibly had the effect they did on Russia's economy if it wasn't strictly capitalist.  Let me know when Vladimir Putin relinquishes control of Russia's means of production to its working class, and then we can discuss how far left he's gone.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Ok looks Russia is trying to make false flags to get Belarus an excuse… calling it now



…that or the BelaRus civil war has started


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

appleburger said:


> I've been wondering about potential exit strategy's being developed, too.  Do people think it's likely Russia could turn on Putin?  I'm not well versed with world political history, so I personally don't know what options are/aren't likely, here.


Russia has already turned on Putin, they’re arresting protesters in quadruple digits. Kremlin is not on his side either, and secret service informers have already stated that there’s a growing anti-Putin sentiment in the FSB - everyone’s on edge, including Putin himself. He’s surrounded by people who are sick of his shit. If he persists, it’s only a matter of time before the problem solved itself, and Putin knows this, which is why he’s always surrounded by an entourage of trusted muscle.


Xzi said:


> The "honey," as you call it, is a big part of what gets militaries the outcomes they desire, and a big part of the reason this invasion has been such a colossal failure.  It's the difference between sending your soldiers into battle with bulletproof vests and sending them into battle with multiple layers of t-shirts.  Hell, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Russia has spent more on covering up their losses with cremation trucks than they have on their still-living forces.  When your tenuous grip on power relies on nonstop propaganda, those efforts get expensive quick.
> 
> Authoritarianism generally falls under the right-wing, and the West's sanctions couldn't have possibly had the effect they did on Russia's economy if it wasn't strictly capitalist.  Let me know when Vladimir Putin relinquishes control of Russia's means of production to its working class, and then we can discuss how far left he's gone.


You’re obviously not very familiar with Russian military strategy over the years - it’s always been a meat grinder. A very outdated approach. As for authoritarianism, the political compass would like a word. It has nothing to do with whether you’re on the left or right, it has to do with the positioning of government versus its people.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> You’re obviously not very familiar with Russian military strategy over the years - it’s always been a meat grinder.


True, but where they might've used their dead as martyrs to inspire a sense of nationalistic pride in the past, now they're just pretending the losses aren't happening at all.  Must be extremely demoralizing for those on the front lines to know that even their own mothers will be kept in the dark about their deaths for weeks, if not months.



Foxi4 said:


> As for authoritarianism, the political compass would like a word. It has nothing to do with whether you’re on the left or right, it has to do with the positioning of government versus its people.


Putin and his not-so-merry band of oligarchs gained the vast majority of their wealth and power through the private sector.  Then they used those ill-gotten gains to take control of government.  It's obvious his thinking aligns far more with the US/global right just based on the company he keeps, as well.  The Kremlin isn't exactly blasting the Chapo Trap House podcast in every public space, but they have demanded that Russian TV networks feature Tucker Carlson more prominently.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

Ok update on the Belarus situation 

A Belarus official  (anti Russian) stated the planes and missiles launched from inside Belarus..  so this is either Russian False Flag or internal Civil war..


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> True, but where they might've used their dead as martyrs to inspire a sense of nationalistic pride in the past, now they're just pretending the losses aren't happening at all.  Must be extremely demoralizing for those on the front lines to know that even their own mothers will be kept in the dark about their deaths for weeks, if not months.


Such is the mindset of a Soviet strategist - it really hasn’t changed much. Soldiers aren’t people, they’re always treated as assets.


> Putin and his not-so-merry band of oligarchs gained the vast majority of their wealth and power through the private sector.  Then they used those ill-gotten gains to take control of government.  It's obvious his thinking aligns far more with the US/global right just based on the company he keeps, as well.  The Kremlin isn't exactly blasting the Chapo Trap House podcast in every public space, but they have demanded that Russian TV networks feature Tucker Carlson more prominently.


Putin was put in a position of power by being an integral part of the previous political system in the first place. Neither him nor any of his associates would’ve had any wealth if not for those connections, all of which were forged under the communist system which is inherently based on a constant exchange of favours and quid pro quo. The corruption was brewed in the Soviet Union and poisoned the well from the start, not the other way around. Putin is very much red, just not red like the communist pamphlets and useful idiots would expect him to be. Anybody from the former Soviet bloc knows how those principles actually work in practice, and Putin is a product of those principles. In Poland we eliminated this problem by eliminating any relevant figures from the former state from public life, permanently - worked out better for us, it seems. We’ll never agree on this and you’ll never score any points on your theoretical knowledgeable because I have practical, first-hand experience, so we may as well end the exchange right here as far as right versus left is concerned, before you tell me that Stalin was a right-winger too.


----------



## linuxares (Mar 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Since 2014 the Azov battalion has attacked the independence-declaring oblasts in the east. If you support Taiwan independence and American independence, I am sure you have sympathy for Lugansk and Donetsk.


No, no I don't.
Taiwan wanna be free from tyranny of the CCP.

Lugansk and Doneskt just wanna be Russian because Putin installed some puppets.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

Lugansk and Doneskt are not states. They’ve never been states. There’s no history of that territory being anything other than Ukraine besides a brief period under Soviet occupation. If the Russian sympathisers living in Ukraine want to be Russians, they can move to Russia - they don’t get to seize land. Ukraine is perfectly justified in fighting insurgents - no sovereign state has to tolerate *a self-professed battalion* on their territory, especially if said battalion also professes allegiance to the enemy. As I said, there’s an easy fix for them - move. Shouldn’t be too hard.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Putin was put in a position of power by being an integral part of the previous political system in the first place.


He was given the training and knowledge needed to seize power in the KGB, but it wasn't until the USSR fell that he was able to amass enough wealth and notoriety to execute the attack on his own people; which cemented that power via the demand for a false sense of security.  He played and continues to play the exact same "strongman" role that every Republican presidential candidate since the 50s has.



Foxi4 said:


> Anybody from the former Soviet bloc knows how those principles actually work in practice, and Putin is a product of those principles.


One doesn't need to have experienced that to know exactly what those principles are.  They're the same principles held by Elon Musk, the Koch brothers, and every other billionaire on the planet.



Foxi4 said:


> In Poland we eliminated this problem by eliminating any relevant figures from the former state from public life, permanently - worked out better for us, it seems.


Naturally.  Corrupt oligarchs aren't gonna change their tune just because you give them a new economic system to bend to their will.



Foxi4 said:


> We’ll never agree on this and you’ll never score any points on your theory because I have practical, first-hand experience, so we may as well end the exchange right here as far as right versus left is concerned, before you tell me that Stalin was a right-winger too.


Stalin was a product of the authoritarian left, but that doesn't mean he can be considered a proper Socialist/Communist by the textbook definition of the word.  And that's because he never truly redistributed anything, but instead concentrated as much wealth and power as possible into the hands of the fewest people possible.


----------



## smf (Mar 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Since 2014 the Azov battalion has attacked the independence-declaring oblasts in the east.


You mean the soldiers that Russia organised and gave equipment?

And when Russia annexed Crimea and shot down Malaysia flight mh17.

Your argument might make sense if it had been peaceful and without violence, but Russia has literally been stealing parts of Ukraine since 2014.



Lucaserf said:


> WHAT TANK WARFARE? ITS NOT THE COLD WAR ANYMORE. Why do you believe NATO would invade Russia? You're eating too much Kremlin propaganda



Anyone who thinks NATO has any intention of invading Russia is not the full ticket.

NATO really only wants Russia to stop murdering women and children. Putin is obviously worried that it will cramp his style.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 16, 2022)

Xzi said:


> He was given the training and knowledge needed to seize power in the KGB, but it wasn't until the USSR fell that he was able to amass enough wealth and notoriety to execute the attack on his own people; which cemented that power via the demand for a false sense of security.  He played and continues to play the exact same "strongman" role that every Republican presidential candidate since the 50s has.
> 
> One doesn't need to have experienced that to know exactly what those principles are.  They're the same principles held by Elon Musk, the Koch brothers, and every other billionaire on the planet.
> 
> ...


We’ve had this conversation a million times - the principles espoused by communists have a natural consequence of establishing an authoritarian government because they can only be put into practice through use of force, force which is never relinquished afterwards - that’s the part modern communists don’t understand, and cannot understand. They find the proposed end point to be attractive, so much so that they fail to notice that the proposed path doesn’t lead to said end point, it invariably leads to an authoritarian nightmare. People on opposite ends of the aisle will always have this argument we’re having right now, until the end of time - communism sympathisers will always say that it was never truly tried and communist opponents will always say that it’s a system that failed every single time it attempted. Revolutions create power vacuums, and nature hates a vacuum - that empty space is always, invariably, filled in with the group that just did all of the revolting, and they’re never going to relinquish the power they seized because the supply of people not adequately adherent to the cause is never-ending when the goal posts can be moved as hoc. There is no step three after seizing the power from the state, but people infatuated with the idea of communism will never come to terms with that. If you’re under the impression that Putin was ever splitting a grain of rice to feed his family, you’re living in an alternate reality that’s not worth delving into.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Ok update on the Belarus situation
> .


Sorry bring it up again but yup it’s a Belarus coup … the opposition party releases a video claiming Belarus has become a puppet state and call Russian wars illegal,

 Hopefully it takes in Belarus .. as it would cut off the Russians in the north of Kyiv and would push any chance of Russia to take over Kyiv unlikely any time soon


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

smf said:


> You mean the soldiers that Russia organised and gave equipment?


Yes, like the coup government in Kiev that NATO trained and equipped.


smf said:


> And when Russia annexed Crimea and shot down Malaysia flight mh17.


Assertion. I think it was shot down by a Ukrainian plane (it had what looked like bullets holes). And if it was shot down but a missile, it was most likely a separatist missile because they were afraid of bombing and did not have air superiority. I would not blame Kiev if they shot down a civil airplane right now by accident.



smf said:


> Your argument might make sense if it had been peaceful and without violence, but Russia has literally been stealing parts of Ukraine since 2014.


People in Eastern Ukraine thought their democracy had been stolen. They rejected the coup and Kiev immediately attacked them by organizing trains of bandits (e.g. killing people in Odessa).



smf said:


> Anyone who thinks NATO has any intention of invading Russia is not the full ticket.
> 
> NATO really only wants Russia to stop murdering women and children. Putin is obviously worried that it will cramp his style.


NATO does not want to invade Russia, I agree. But NATO has invaded many countries and Russia remembers the loss of tens of millions by the Western powers (and that Nazi Germany and the US had almost teamed up at the end eof WW2 to restart operation Barbarossa).


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

linuxares said:


> No, no I don't.
> Taiwan wanna be free from tyranny of the CCP.
> 
> Lugansk and Doneskt just wanna be Russian because Putin installed some puppets.


Donetsk wanna be free from Kiev tyranny.
The leaders of the new-founded republics come from their respective oblasts. They are military leaders and often die for their cause.


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## djpannda (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Donetsk wanna be free from Kiev tyranny.
> The leaders of the new-founded republics come from their respective oblasts. They are military leaders and often die for their cause.


One word…..  Tibet


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> One word…..  Tibet


I am for the territorial integrity for China (including Taiwan and Tibet), Ukraine (including Donetsk and Lugansk) and Syria (including the large US-occupied oil fields). Are you?

In fact, the Tibet solution seems perfect for Ukraine: autonomy within the country. Too bad Kiev wants to shell them for 8 years instead.


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## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> We’ve had this conversation a million times - the principles espoused by communists have a natural consequence of establishing an authoritarian government because they can only be put into practice through use of force, force which is never relinquished afterwards - that’s the part modern communists don’t understand, and cannot understand.


I have no problem acknowledging that Communism is an imperfect system for that very reason, though you might as well be describing capitalism too.  After all, the US still has people with a confederate mindset in government, law enforcement, and the private sector.  Not to mention having one of its guiding principles, slavery, enshrined into the constitution.  So it's as you say: those who gain power never want to relinquish it, even if that power centers around the necessity of owning human beings in the year 2022.



Foxi4 said:


> If you’re under the impression that Putin was ever splitting a grain of rice to feed his family, you’re living in an alternate reality that’s not worth delving into.


Obviously not, being a KGB agent meant Putin was always a part of the "in group."  He never could've obtained the type of obscene wealth he has now without the assistance of the private sector, however, and therefore he couldn't have possibly obtained it without the collapse of the USSR.


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## djpannda (Mar 17, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> You must not be making much in tips this month. Why so bitter?
> 
> Edit: i just noticed that article is from 50 minutes ago. This is old news too. Have fun waiting tables forever.


Cool blurry unsourced Random screenshot..


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## djpannda (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am for the territorial integrity for China (including Taiwan and Tibet), Ukraine (including Donetsk and Lugansk) and Syria (including the large US-occupied oil fields). Are you?
> 
> In fact, the Tibet solution seems perfect for Ukraine: autonomy within the country. Too bad Kiev wants to shell them for 8 years instead.


Oh you mean you support the hostle bloody takeover a sovereign nation


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## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 17, 2022)

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/worl...a023bca442aca86c61d76129ad9&ocid=winp1taskbar

as we know there had been rumours for a long-time Putin had cancer ,


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## idontgetit (Mar 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Cool blurry unsourced Random screenshot..


Cope


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## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I have no problem acknowledging that Communism is an imperfect system for that very reason, though you might as well be describing capitalism too.  After all, the US still has people with a confederate mindset in government, law enforcement, and the private sector.  Not to mention having one of its guiding principles, slavery, enshrined into the constitution.  So it's as you say: those who gain power never want to relinquish it, even if that power centers around the necessity of owning human beings in the year 2022.


Are you talking about the three-fifths compromise? I hope you’re not, considering the fact that it was an anti-slavery measure. The abolition of slavery was always the long-term plan of many founding fathers - the fact that they dealt with it at all was on the colonial government, not on them - it was a pre-existing part of the economy. That’s neither here nor there though, capitalism is not a specific form of governance, it’s a system of free exchange of goods and services. It has no moral implications one way or the other.


> Obviously not, being a KGB agent meant Putin was always a part of the "in group."  He never could've obtained the type of obscene wealth he has now without the assistance of the private sector, however, and therefore he couldn't have possibly obtained it without the collapse of the USSR.


There are things more valuable than money when you live under a system like that. You don’t need money when you can readily acquire whatever you want, whenever you want. Not really part of this topic either, so I’ll leave it here.


djpannda said:


> Sorry bring it up again but yup it’s a Belarus coup … the opposition party releases a video claiming Belarus has become a puppet state and call Russian wars illegal,
> 
> Hopefully it takes in Belarus .. as it would cut off the Russians in the north of Kyiv and would push any chance of Russia to take over Kyiv unlikely any time soon


Belarus is in the uncomfortable position of having to pick a side - they’re picking the one that doesn’t lead to financial ruin and possible military intervention. Smart.


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## mrjoshuaco (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> and that Nazi Germany and the US had almost teamed up at the end eof WW2 to restart operation Barbarossa


 Top fucking minds take right there. Let's invade a country, while allied with a nearly devastated failed regime, that owes us a significant sum in lend-lease repayment. I'd address the rest of your nonsense, but I'd say this one is pretty much a capstone on the stupid, leaving any further discourse unnecessary. Well done, sir.


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## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Are you talking about the three-fifths compromise?


I'm referring to reconstruction and the thirteenth amendment.  Also the immortal Southern Strategy, to some extent.



Foxi4 said:


> That’s neither here nor there though, capitalism is not a specific form of governance, it’s a system of free exchange of goods and services.  It has no moral implications one way or the other.


Precisely.  Without the proper regulations in place, an amoral system is easily exploited by amoral power-hungry sociopaths who treat workers as commodities and not human beings.


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## Nothereed (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> the principles espoused by communists have a natural consequence of establishing an authoritarian government because they can only be put into practice through use of force, force which is never relinquished afterwards - that’s the part modern communists don’t understand


And what you seem to not understand is that modern communists don't plan on using centralized force. Which is why it wouldn't cause an authoritarian government. We don't need a vanguard state, and by avoiding centralization, no class can be created, while still empowering the all.
Marx made a stupid argument that a temporary vanguard state was needed. Modern communists have identified that's unnecessary, we don't need a centralized goverment to function, Within a society. Sure it's easier to centralize since historically people of power have preferred centralized systems for control sake. But again, it doesn't mean that's how things have to function.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> And what you seem to not understand is that modern communists don't plan on using centralized force. Which is why it wouldn't cause an authoritarian government. We don't need a vanguard state, and by avoiding centralization, no class can be created, while still empowering the all.
> Marx made a stupid argument that a temporary vanguard state was needed. Modern communists have identified that's unnecessary


Of course it’s needed, because I’m not playing along with their delusion. You’ll have to force me, and people like me, to play along, and in order to do so you will have to centralise. It’s a forgone conclusion from the start based on your stated goal - you’re displaying the exact myopia I’ve just described. You are unable to look past step one, which is inevitably followed by strong opposition since people like their own things and aren’t necessarily cool with giving them to you based on one reason and one reason only - because you said that’s more fair. Take a hike, buddy - make your own money. What are you going to do about that? What’s your solution when you’re faced with a “no”? You’re obviously going to put pressure on the opposition, and once that doesn’t work, you’ll turn to violence. We’ve been through this several times throughout the 20th century, it’s not my fault you guys weren’t taking notes.


Xzi said:


> I'm referring to reconstruction and the thirteenth amendment.  Also the immortal Southern Strategy, to some extent.


I was unaware that the Southern Strategy was in any way enshrined in the constitution. You guys can own your racist democrats. Not that it matters to me since I have no love for the democrats or the republicans - both parties are intellectually bankrupt.


> Precisely.  Without the proper regulations in place, an amoral system is easily exploited by amoral power-hungry sociopaths who treat workers as commodities and not human beings.


Capitalism is based on consensual exchange. Communism is based on forced sharing. Only one of those things is compatible with liberty.


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## Nothereed (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Of course it’s needed, because I’m not playing along with their delusion. You’ll have to force me, and people like me, to play along


Hmm, okay, let me ask you a question then. If 80% of people agree on something but 20% has power, who's forcing who when the 80% says fuck you?
There's a strong difference between centralized force, and decentralized. As I would quote Martin Luther king jr's paper about his remarks on marx, how the seeds are planted, or how i would phrase it the foundation is set, will decide on if the foundation crumbles, or the seed of destruction will be planted.
So the answer is, we don't have to force you, we don't have to oppress you. If you truly hate us, we as a community of individuals with roles can empower you to go leave to capitalist country. 
Saying that we would HAVE to oppress you is ludicrous, we can choose to empower you to leave, or hell, you could be empowered to try to change the law to be more capitalist. Your just going to have to convience the majority of people.
Bezo's, and musk's of the world can fuck off and leave.
In other words, your taking a subject with a lot of nuance and trying to boil it down to black and white, to two horrible options, when life, when systems are very often not that simple.

To be clear (since I made an edit)
There is a 4th option. Communism's basic principle is to empower everyone equally. And most anarcho communists go for a direct majority democracy.
No representatives, you create the policy and hope that people are on board with it.
 So if you wanted to, you could try to influence policy to be more capitalist. 
Again, we don't have to oppress you. However that also means however, for a democracy to work, if your not in line with the majority, then your going to have to get the majority to believe in you.



Foxi4 said:


> It’s a forgone conclusion from the start based on your stated goal


It seems to me that you think that just because 1 implementation was bad, that every single one must also be bad. That there is no changes that can be made, that the conclusion must be the same.
Insanity is when someone tries the exact same thing over and over again.
Learning to take what didn't work, changing it, adding criticism to it, reconstructing it again, is not insanity. That's learning from past iterations of mistakes. USSR in modern communist eyes failed to redistribute. Failed to avoid a state, and even worse made a authoritarian one at that. And failed at maintaining and keeping human rights. You take those failures and you make tweaks to prevent them, learning exactly what went wrong. A criticism of something will not be perfect on first implementation, not even second iteration, but there is a iteration that has to work, and so people have to keep trying. After all, we're seeing this iteration of society crumble, the United states. 80% of people want healthcare. They didn't get that. Most people believe minimum wage should be higher. That did not happen.  Most people support student loan debt cancellation. That has not happened.
the will of the people has been actively subverted, due to our own economic system. Climate change is still not effectively delt with. Last year we polluted more than ever. The obesity crisis? Not even something people talk about. Housing crisis? The fact that many people were removed from their homes due to the pandemic, from bills being unable to be paid shows extreme fragility. No system should be that vulnerable that others can just be on the streets like that, due to something that far out their control. 
Let's not forget that landlords are essentially scalpers, buying homes, a necessity for profit sake. 
Capitalism is bad because when you truly dig into it, there is a clear hierarchy. And humanity is at it's worst when a hierarchy gets involved, as the ability to empathize with each other weakens. With those ontop, with those in power, unable to relate to the rest.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Hmm, okay, let me ask you a question then. If 80% of people agree on something but 20% has power, who's forcing who when the 80% says fuck you?
> There's a strong difference between centralized force, and decentralized. As I would quote Martin Luther king jr's paper about his remarks on marx, how the seeds are planted, or how i would phrase it the foundation is set, will decide on if the foundation crumbles, or the seed of destruction will be planted.
> So the answer is, we don't have to force you, we don't have to oppress you. If you truly hate us, we as a community of individuals with roles can empower you to go leave to capitalist country.
> Saying that we would HAVE to oppress you is ludicrous, we can choose to empower you to leave, or hell, you could be empowered to try to change the law to be more capitalist. Your just going to have to convience the majority of people.
> ...


When there’s five people in the room and four of them democratically decide to take the belongings of the fifth for themselves, that’s called a mugging. The problem isn’t whether or not you can muster support for your amoral system, it’s the fact that your system is amoral. It doesn’t matter how much or how many people want to “redistribute” my property - it’s my property. You will *have* to take it by force, and once you do, you’re already on the same track as every dummy before you. As a side note, “putting pressure” on people to “make them move” is violence by a different name - depriving people of their means to live is no different than attacking them directly. You’re more than welcome to band together with your buddies and start a commune in your own backyard - I don’t care what you do. Once you knock on my door, with the expectation of depriving me of my belongings, you are the aggressor, and you should expect pushback. Not that it matters, this isn’t a thread about communism, we’re discussing a conflict in Ukraine.


Nothereed said:


> It seems to me that you think that just because 1 implementation was bad, that every single one must also be bad. That there is no changes that can be made, that the conclusion must be the same.
> Insanity is when someone tries the exact same thing over and over again.
> Learning to take what didn't work, changing it, adding criticism to it, reconstructing it again, is not insanity. That's learning from past iterations of mistakes. USSR in modern communist eyes failed to redistribute. Failed to avoid a state, and even worse made a authoritarian one at that. And failed at maintaining and keeping human rights. You take those failures and you make tweaks to prevent them, learning exactly what went wrong. A criticism of something will not be perfect on first implementation, not even second iteration, but there is a iteration that has to work, and so people have to keep trying. After all, we're seeing this iteration of society crumble, the United states. 80% of people want healthcare. They didn't get that. Most people believe minimum wage should be higher. That did not happen.  Most people support student loan debt cancellation. That has not happened.
> the will of the people has been actively subverted.


Not one. Every single one in recorded history. So far, after multiple experiments, we’ve established that communism appears to be a machine you feed with people on one end and get genocide, famine and poverty on the other as you turn the crank. There are zero communist countries anyone with any semblance of reason would like to live in. Keep trying though, it’ll work next time. For the record, the idea that “it has to work after X iterations” is indeed stupid. If you repeat the same action over and over again with the expectation of getting a different result, we call that insanity. Seeing that you’re aware of this is supremely ironic - you should read your own post, three times, then figure out why it’s hilarious. You should also buy a mirror. I’m not even going to comment on your “society” comment, the Joker cosplay convention was last week. It’s funny - governments worldwide are veering more and more towards social democracy only for you guys to complain that it causes society to crumble. Hey, galaxy brain - maybe your solutions are the problem then? But alas, who am I to judge, I just prefer liberty over tyranny of edge lords with no understanding of history.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Oh you mean you support the hostle bloody takeover a sovereign nation


Tibet was stolen from the Qing dynasty by the British. Once China regained its strength, it took back what was theirs. I´m sure you would support that, seeing how you support the Ukrainian claim over Donbass.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Tibet was stolen from the Qing dynasty by the British. Once China regained its strength, it took back what was theirs. I´m sure you would support that, seeing how you support the Ukrainian claim over Donbass.


Tibet has over two centuries of history as an independent state - it was briefly conquered by the Mongols and later the Chinese. The people of Tibet have an ancestral claim to the land, China does not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet


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## djpannda (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Tibet was stolen from the Qing dynasty by the British.


Wait so your saying that the successor of the Qing dynasty has rights to Tibet? *So you saying only  Taiwan is the rightful owner of Tibet not the CCP*?  Wow that soo progressive


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## djpannda (Mar 17, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> Cope


… yet you still provide unsourced  low rez photoshop pix … shit look like a N64 screengrab


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Wait so your saying that the successor of the Qing dynasty has rights to Tibet? *So you saying only  Taiwan is the rightful owner of Tibet not the CCP*?  Wow that soo progressive


Taiwan is not a country. The Republic of China is the successor of the Qing dynasty and the People´s Republic is seemingly the successor of the Republic of China. If it turns out that the RoC wins the frozen civil war, I would not be opposed to its claim over all of China, including Vladivostok.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Taiwan is not a country. The Republic of China is the successor of the Qing dynasty and the People´s Republic is seemingly the successor of the Republic of China. If it turns out that the RoC wins the frozen civil war, I would not be opposed to its claim over all of China, including Vladivostok.


Neither are any territories the Russian Federation has attacked and/or annexed over the years. What’s your point?

For the record, not even the Qing dynasty has an ancestral claim on Tibet - the Qing dynasty conquered Tibet in the 18th century. They ruled over the land for around 2 centuries before dissolving, they were hostile occupiers.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Neither are any territories the Russian Federation has attacked and/or annexed over the years. What’s your point?


My point is to reveal the hypocrisy of others.


Foxi4 said:


> For the record, not even the Qing dynasty has an ancestral claim on Tibet - the Qing dynasty conquered Tibet in the 18th century. They ruled over the land for around 2 centuries before dissolving, they were hostile occupiers.


The Qing dynasty was the last Chinese dynasty. China has ruled Tibet for much longer. Hundreds of years before Columbus as least.


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 17, 2022)

Why not let the people who actually live there *NOW *decide whether they want to side with X, Y or be by themselves?
Historical claims are such BS. Return America to the tribes then. Or the Earth to the chickens, who descended from the "rulers of yore", the dinousaurs.

SMH...


----------



## smf (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Assertion. I think it was shot down by a Ukrainian plane (it had what looked like bullets holes). And if it was shot down but a missile, it was most likely a separatist missile because they were afraid of bombing and did not have air superiority. I would not blame Kiev if they shot down a civil airplane right now by accident.


Assertion. the missile launcher used was tracked from Russia to Ukraine and back again. Lots of photographic evidence was available.

It was definitely Russia that shot down MH17.



AlexMCS said:


> Why not let the people who actually live there *NOW *decide whether they want to side with X, Y or be by themselves?



It's not entirely black and white. Self determination should certainly be dealt with democratically, so no sending in soldiers to save people who don't want to be saved.

However you also need to consider that a country could encourage lots of their people to move to a different country so that they can then claim it.

It's important to be careful with the facts and not create loopholes that bad actors (i.e. Russia or China) will exploit.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> … yet you still provide unsourced  low rez photoshop pix … shit look like a N64 screengrab


- sent from my iPhone


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I was unaware that the Southern Strategy was in any way enshrined in the constitution.


It isn't.  By context it should've been obvious that was part of what I was referring to when I talked about confederate-minded individuals in/campaigning for the public sector.



Foxi4 said:


> You guys can own your racist democrats.


It's a strategy exclusively employed by the Republican party ever since the two parties swapped platforms in the late 60s/early 70s.  Trump used it as part of his campaign.  But you probably already knew that and were just being facetious.



Foxi4 said:


> Not that it matters to me since I have no love for the democrats or the republicans - both parties are intellectually bankrupt.


You're right about that, but the reason is that both parties are owned by different sets of corporations.  Sadly a feature of capitalism when combined with the two-party system, not a bug.



Foxi4 said:


> Capitalism is based on consensual exchange.


Oh if only I could still believe in such fairy tales.  Consensual exchange can only exist in a system where everybody's basic needs are being met.  Otherwise there's an unspoken understanding between employer and employee that labor is tied to your very livelihood, and employers can leverage that understanding in any way they deem fit.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Trump's behavior prior to the election informs what his behavior would've been after the election.  Before the election he was attempting to weaken the Ukrainian military, and he was never stingy when it came to complimenting his dream daddy Putin.


Yeah that's complete bullshit on both accounts.


Xzi said:


> Ahh there we go.  Can never stray too far from what Trump is telling you to think, eh?  He's a morbidly obese geriatric pedophile with narcissistic personality disorder.  Get better role models already.


Because choosing to invade when the strongest world's superpower is at it's weakest thanks to it's numb brain president and it's populace obsessed with everything woke is just plain stupid, right? And you call him a pedo, yet Joe Biden sniffs kids and his son fucks underage teenage prostitutes. Why don't you get a fucking brain you stupid blind cocksucker.


Xzi said:


> The Russian economy and stock market is literally dead, and Putin has repeatedly bitched about the sanctions.  I'm not sure what else you expect Biden to do, short of dragging us into World War 3 with a moderate to high chance of total nuclear annihilation.  Trump would be more likely to nuke Canada than get into a conflict with his biggest financier, we already saw that demonstrated when he abandoned the Kurds to Putin's brand of imperialism.


And now China will step in and help Russia, bringing their relationship closer. Plus, Putin had banned American media and is kicking out companies that haven't already left. Even if the Russian economy took a hit or two, it's still not gonna matter that much in the long run. They're gonna win this fight, with or without the pussies around the world against then that they can crush in an instant. This may sound like I'm for Russia, but I'm not. Both Russia and the corrupt Ukraine can burn for all I care, I'm just stating the facts and what's happening.

I think I'm gonna be done with you because you and a few others just continue to reveal how evilly ignorant you continue to be and refuse to get your heads out of your crusty, unwashed shitty asshole no matter what happens or how much of the actual truth is out there.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Yeah that's complete bullshit on both accounts.


I literally gave you sources on both accounts.  Just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it false.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Because choosing to invade when the strongest world's superpower is at it's weakest thanks to it's numb brain president and it's populace obsessed with everything woke is just plain stupid, right?


The only supposed "superpower" revealing itself to be at its weakest point right now is Russia.  If they can't beat the Ukrainian military, they wouldn't be able to handle even a tenth of the US military in direct conflict.  Putin is hiding scared in a bunker behind his nukes, continuing to bark as loud and frequently as he can, like a castrated chihuahua.



BitMasterPlus said:


> And you call him a pedo, yet Joe Biden sniffs kids and his son fucks underage teenage prostitutes. Why don't you get a fucking brain you stupid blind cocksucker.


Ooh, spicy.  Joe Biden is not somebody I admire in any capacity.  For that matter I hold a fair bit of disdain for him as a neoliberal.  Only a blobfish as reprehensible as Donald Trump is capable of making Biden look like the only logical choice by comparison.



BitMasterPlus said:


> And now China will step in and help Russia, bringing their relationship closer.


China has exclusively been distancing themselves from Putin's quagmire in the last few days, to my surprise.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Plus, Putin had banned American media and is kicking out companies that haven't already left.


Too late, cat's out of the bag on Russian propaganda ever since that brave Russian news producer lady held up a protest sign live on air.  Marina Ovsyannikova.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Even if the Russian economy took a hit or two, it's still not gonna matter that much in the long run.


Lmao, spoken like somebody who doesn't have to live through it.  Russians fleeing to other countries right now are the smart ones.



BitMasterPlus said:


> They're gonna win this fight, with or without the pussies around the world against then that they can crush in an instant. This may sound like I'm for Russia, but I'm not.


What the actual fuck.  "Russia's gonna win this imperialist invasion during which they've committed numerous war crimes, but don't take that to mean I'm on Putin's side."  Russia already lost when the invasion took longer than the three days Putin predicted it would, thus giving the West enough time to respond in kind.  And I do interpret that as cheerleading for a ruthless dictator, sorry not sorry.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Taiwan is not a country. The Republic of China is the successor of the Qing dynasty and the People´s Republic is seemingly the successor of the Republic of China. If it turns out that the RoC wins the frozen civil war, I would not be opposed to its claim over all of China, including Vladivostok.


Wait I don’t get it,   so you’re saying the RoC is the successor of Qing … but the fact they are still around as Taiwan would mean you just admitted the PRoC reign is not valid.. wow  you just discredited 70years of communists rule


----------



## linuxares (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Donetsk wanna be free from Kiev tyranny.
> The leaders of the new-founded republics come from their respective oblasts. They are military leaders and often die for their cause.


They can just move to Russia then

EDIT: I love all the "Historic claims" part for this user. Holy moly, the UK wants their empire back.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It isn't.  By context it should've been obvious that was part of what I was referring to when I talked about confederate-minded individuals in/campaigning for the public sector.


That makes your post make less sense.


> It's a strategy exclusively employed by the Republican party ever since the two parties swapped platforms in the late 60s/early 70s.  Trump used it as part of his campaign.  But you probably already knew that and were just being facetious.


We’re not going to argue about just how many Dixiecrats actually switched sides here - the souther voters certainly did switch, and we also won’t argue about why since it has nothing to do with Ukraine. The democratic party was the party of racism in the past and continues to be the party of racism today, it’s just adherent to a new form of racism, the racism of low expectations. Soft bigotry is still bigotry. That’s also not part of the Ukraine conflict.


> You're right about that, but the reason is that both parties are owned by different sets of corporations.  Sadly a feature of capitalism when combined with the two-party system, not a bug.


When in doubt, blame capitalism. Broken record.


> Oh if only I could still believe in such fairy tales.  Consensual exchange can only exist in a system where everybody's basic needs are being met.  Otherwise there's an unspoken understanding between employer and employee that labor is tied to your very livelihood, and employers can leverage that understanding in any way they deem fit.


The opposite is true. Exchange can only occur when one party has something the other party wants or needs, and has something to offer in return - in this case we’re exchanging labour for money. If you have nothing to use as leverage yourself, that’s on you - I’m sorry that you offer no value and as such are not in a position to negotiate. Do better - self-improve or live in mediocrity. Capitalism doesn’t care about anyone’s basic needs, not *should* it care, because it’s not a system of governance - it’s a system of exchange. It’s not supposed to “meet your basic needs” - that’s your job. It’s purposefully ambivalent, and makes it more fair, not less. If your basic needs aren’t being met, money didn’t do that - either you offer no value and you’re not competitive on the market *or* the government is stifling your ability to participate/operate in the system, so you can go on ahead and blame them for your failure. Either way, this has nothing to do with Ukraine.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The democratic party was the party of racism in the past and continues to be the party of racism today, it’s just adherent to a new form of racism, the racism of low expectations. Soft bigotry is still bigotry.


I won't deny that racism exists within the Democratic party, but if "soft bigotry" gets qualified immunity abolished and acknowledges the racism inherent in a rigid, outdated system, it's still a helluva lot better than the alternative.  AKA the entirety of the Republican party foaming at the mouth every time Fox News mentions immigration.



Foxi4 said:


> When in doubt, blame capitalism. Broken record.


Almost like your flimsy excuses for the flaws inherent in the system take this discussion in circles.  Real shocker that.



Foxi4 said:


> Exchange can only occur when one party has something the other party wants or needs, and has something to offer in return - in this case we’re exchanging labour for money.


So now we've demoted it from "consensual" exchange down to just exchange.  At least you're sugarcoating it _slightly_ less.



Foxi4 said:


> If you have nothing to use as leverage yourself, that’s on you - I’m sorry that you offer no value and as such are not in a position to negotiate.


This discussion isn't about me, and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of jobs created by any capitalist market are service industry positions.  These jobs are essential to society's daily functioning, but the wages tied to them do not reflect that.  You can't just tell 70% of a country's population to "get a better job" or negotiate wages in a non-union position.  Well, you can, but it's not a real solution to a systemic issue.



Foxi4 said:


> Capitalism doesn’t care about anyone’s basic needs, not *should* it care, because it’s not a system of governance - it’s a system of exchange.


That reasoning would be perfectly fine if capitalism stayed in its own little corner and allowed the public sector to provide for those basic needs.  Instead the profit motive is constantly interfering with people receiving the necessities.



Foxi4 said:


> Either way, this has nothing to do with Ukraine.


It does, but only in the loose sense that the invasion was in Putin's best interests as a capitalist.  He thought the world would continue to trade with Ukraine's ports even during Russian occupation of the country.  Turns out they may not be able to even reach the point of occupation at all, the way things are going.

The bottom line is this: there is no perfect economic system, and pretending capitalism has no flaws whatsoever when all evidence points to the contrary isn't productive.  You can keep on hating communism while still acknowledging that there are some aspects of capitalism which are equally dehumanizing.  And while I personally think that trying to fix US capitalism while we're in the middle of our descent into full-blown oligarchy is like trying to polish a turd, if you truly believe it's a system worth saving then you should embrace ideas for improving it.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Assertion. I think it was shot down by a Ukrainian plane (it had what looked like bullets holes). And if it was shot down but a missile, it was most likely a separatist missile because they were afraid of bombing and did not have air superiority. I would not blame Kiev if they shot down a civil airplane right now by accident.


Let's not push conspiracy theories. It was shot down by a SAM in possession of pro-russian forces. You're awfully biased for someone who claimed to be neutral. I'm starting to suspect you're russian yourself


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Let's not push conspiracy theories. It was shot down by a SAM in possession of pro-russian forces. You're awfully biased for someone who claimed to be neutral. I'm starting to suspect you're russian yourself


And you think they did it on purpose?


----------



## nikeymikey (Mar 17, 2022)

This whole invasion is utterly terrible, Putin must be stopped at all costs. There are many humanitarian costs to this war some of which will take years to resolve, even when the fighting has stopped. 
I send love and hope to all Ukrainians from the UK. Fcuk Russia!


Alos those of us in the retro game community have a mutual friend who has fled Ukraine and is safe in another country, however he will not be producing any of his excellent flash carts for the foreseeable future. Yes I mean Krikzz and the Everdrive series of carts. Scalpers have already started to push prices to double what the retail prices were before the invasion.


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## Lucaserf (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And you think they did it on purpose?


Nope, most of the time these shootdowns are never done on purpose (That would make their cause look even worse). Stress and paranoia are two of the most common explanations for these incidents.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I won't deny that racism exists within the Democratic party, but if "soft bigotry" gets qualified immunity abolished and acknowledges the racism inherent in a rigid, outdated system, it's still a helluva lot better than the alternative.  AKA the entirety of the Republican party foaming at the mouth every time Fox News mentions immigration.


As a general rule, when you’re trying to extinguish a fire, you should avoid pouring gasoline on it. More racism is not a solution for racism - the solution is equal treatment.


> Almost like your flimsy excuses for the flaws inherent in the system take this discussion in circles.  Real shocker that.


It’s not a discussion - one system was inherently better than the other, and won. The discussion ended in 1989.


> So now we've demoted it from "consensual" exchange down to just exchange.  At least you're sugarcoating it _slightly_ less.


Nobody is forcing you to participate - consent is implied.


> This discussion isn't about me, and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of jobs created by any capitalist market are service industry positions.  These jobs are essential to society's daily functioning, but the wages tied to them do not reflect that.  You can't just tell 70% of a country's population to "get a better job" or negotiate wages in a non-union position.  Well, you can, but it's not a real solution to a systemic issue.


The system doesn’t create jobs, nor is it supposed to - people generate jobs. That’s the difference between a system of free exchange and a controlled economy. As a side note, I can say that, and I do. I’m not here to solve people’s problems - people should solve their own problems.


> That reasoning would be perfectly fine if capitalism stayed in its own little corner and allowed the public sector to provide for those basic needs.  Instead the profit motive is constantly interfering with people receiving the necessities.


By the public sector solving people’s issues you mean spending other people’s money - let’s be frank here. The public sector can spend its own money, as soon as it starts making some. For the record, the profit motive is the single most effective impetus of progress.


> It does, but only in the loose sense that the invasion was in Putin's best interests as a capitalist.  He thought the world would continue to trade with Ukraine's ports even during Russian occupation of the country.  Turns out they may not be able to even reach the point of occupation at all, the way things are going.


Putin’s motivation is not capitalist, although it is profit-driven. Putin is strictly motivated by Russian imperialism. That’s not the same thing, although there is some overlap in the sense that the war is over money - that’s about the extent of commonality here.


> The bottom line is this: there is no perfect economic system, and pretending capitalism has no flaws whatsoever when all evidence points to the contrary isn't productive.  You can keep on hating communism while still acknowledging that there are some aspects of capitalism which are equally dehumanizing.  And while I personally think that trying to fix US capitalism while we're in the middle of our descent into full-blown oligarchy is like trying to polish a turd, if you truly believe it's a system worth saving then you should embrace ideas for improving it.


It is more appropriate to say that people have different perspectives on what would be ideal for them. To me, capitalism is about as close as we can get to a perfect system, and its various shortcomings you mention are primarily caused by improper government intervention, not inherent systemic flaws. Capitalism in its purest form doesn’t care about whether you’re a man, woman, black, white or a space alien - it cares about generating value. The entire point of the system is to allow private individuals to freely exchange goods and services with each other in a manner that creates wealth for all participants, it’s a system that enables people to produce more than the sum of the parts they put into it. All of this is achieved through consensual exchange and contract. That’s capitalism, the litany of issues you mention are specific problems with specific implementations. When boiled down to base components, I think it would be hard for anyone to disagree that it is good for people to be able to engage in commerce freely - those are the precepts we can all agree to be good. Where we differ is the detail.

I don’t need a third wheel of the state to get involved and I accept risk as a given when I engage in any economic activity. Not everyone is comfortable with that, so they opt for more forgiving systems that provide more safety. All countries around the world oscillate between the two extremes of full government control via planned economy and complete laissez-faire where everything, including people, has a price. We can both agree that the golden mean is between those two points, we disagree on where that point is based on personal value systems and level of propensity towards risk taking, which is why the conversation is and always has been silly. It’s like arguing what pie is best. As long as we agree that a turd pie and a dirt pie are not acceptable, there is no issue - we can find more agreeable pies in between those two. I like apple.

On the flip side, I find the communist system wholly reprehensible and unacceptable from the outset, because it deprives me of the very basic human right of owning property and, via said ownership, forging my own destiny. That I will never find agreeable. As such, facing the choice between the two, I will always choose the former over the latter. Nobody is entitled to the fruits of my labour besides me. Concessions can be made in regards to exchanging some of that wealth for services provided by the state, and throughout the myriad of conversations we’ve had I’ve enumerated the ones I see agreeable. Again, we’re retreading the same waters over and over again.

In any case, in the context of how this relates to Russia, with the pipeline construction continuing and some pre-existing connections, it is in Putin’s, and Russia’s national interest to have a stooge in Ukraine. In addition, Ukraine is also the world’s premier supplier of neon, among some other precious materials. Expansion in that direction is profitable, and keeps the NATO at bay while he fucks around on other fronts. You can call that capitalism if you will, I treat it as Russian imperialism, and Putin is keen on admitting that the latter is the case - he wouldn’t be revising history if it wasn’t. Putin aims at a revival of great Mother Russia that’s a self-sufficient industrial titan, in the vein of what China has achieved by holding onto its communist roots, but saving itself from collapse by introducing some, not all, capitalist principles into the marketplace. That’s his actual goal, personal gratification and wealth-building is a secondary consequence.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I literally gave you sources on both accounts.  Just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it false.


You and many others exhibited the same behavior, so you're not one to talk.


Xzi said:


> The only supposed "superpower" revealing itself to be at its weakest point right now is Russia.  If they can't beat the Ukrainian military, they wouldn't be able to handle even a tenth of the US military in direct conflict.  Putin is hiding scared in a bunker behind his nukes, continuing to bark as loud and frequently as he can, like a castrated chihuahua.


And yet he's still gonna take Ukraine. I like how you think you know how warfare and economics works, but you just continue to show how dumb you are.


Xzi said:


> Ooh, spicy.  Joe Biden is not somebody I admire in any capacity.  For that matter I hold a fair bit of disdain for him as a neoliberal.  Only a blobfish as reprehensible as Donald Trump is capable of making Biden look like the only logical choice by comparison.


Oh yeah, because an actual pedophile taking office is much better than a man who did nothing but strengthen America. Your head must be made of 100% pure lead, I guarantee it at this point.


Xzi said:


> China has exclusively been distancing themselves from Putin's quagmire in the last few days, to my surprise.


Dude, they have on more than one occasion support Putin and invasion openly.


Xzi said:


> Too late, cat's out of the bag on Russian propaganda ever since that brave Russian news producer lady held up a protest sign live on air.  Marina Ovsyannikova.


Like gives a shit what any media, even his own, think about him. He's still gonna do what he wants regardless.


Xzi said:


> Lmao, spoken like somebody who doesn't have to live through it.  Russians fleeing to other countries right now are the smart ones.


Oh, and I'm guessing you're living through it yourself right now? Didn't know you were Russian.


Xzi said:


> What the actual fuck.  "Russia's gonna win this imperialist invasion during which they've committed numerous war crimes, but don't take that to mean I'm on Putin's side."  Russia already lost when the invasion took longer than the three days Putin predicted it would, thus giving the West enough time to respond in kind.  And I do interpret that as cheerleading for a ruthless dictator, sorry not sorry.


Yes, I think they're gonna win, but that doesn't mean I support them. Stop grasping at straws you condescending dumb fuck. You're a cheerleader for all the BS fake news and liberal elites even though you say you aren't, then accuse others of taking sides when they aren't. How much of a disgusting and moronic hypocrite can you be? Keep responding and let's find out.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> HE Did IT!!
> 
> 
> All it took was destroying half of a Sovereign  Nation, killing thousands of civilians, losing about 10,000 Russian Troops (killed,injured and captured) 1000 of Russian Military Vehicles lost, The Destruction   of the Russian Economy  and stock Market, The Social rejection of Russian identity and participation, The total censorship of Media.
> ...









Anyone with the time want to shop Putin's head on Bush here?


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 17, 2022)

A few words from Dutch..


----------



## stanna (Mar 17, 2022)

What a prick, fucking nazi.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 17, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> A few words from Dutch..



Ever since Arnold pulled out the Conan sword during his Capital Riots response video. I cant tell if he's trolling or not.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> A few words from Dutch..


Relatively good video - Arnold telling straight facts. The only criticism I have is that he’s maintaining the insurrection narrative when no insurrection took place - it was a riot. As a former governor Arnold should be up to date with what the FBI has to say on the matter - they found no evidence of an insurrection, and not one defendant was charged with participating in one. There was no grand scheme to “overthrow the government”, just a bunch of angry crazies making a mess.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> It’s not a discussion - one system was inherently better than the other, and won.


Capitalist nations haven risen and fallen just like any other, and if managing to scrape by for a few hundred years is a "win," then I guess Egypt's caste system beats out both communism and capitalism.



Foxi4 said:


> Nobody is forcing you to participate - consent is implied.


Already debunked that, which is why I assumed you dropped the "consensual" part as a concession.  Consent can only be given if both parties agree to something of their own free will, unburdened by the shackles of necessity.



Foxi4 said:


> I’m not here to solve people’s problems - people should solve their own problems.


Right...you're just here to misdirect blame from the system itself back down onto working class individuals that keep it functioning.  Very noble of you.



Foxi4 said:


> By the public sector solving people’s issues you mean spending other people’s money - let’s be frank here.


Sure, and if we're continuing to be frank: it works far more efficiently that way as opposed to the private sector spending other peoples' money.  A vial of insulin in the US can cost up to $600.  What is it in Poland?  $5?  Free?  That's the difference between capitalism adding unnecessary layers of obfuscation or not.  The private sector will literally weigh peoples' lives against the value of a necessary surgery and say "nah."  The death panels Sarah Palin once ranted about are real, she just didn't realize she was talking about insurance companies.



Foxi4 said:


> Putin’s motivation is not capitalist, although it is profit-driven. Putin is strictly motivated by Russian imperialism. That’s not the same thing, although there is some overlap in the sense that the war is over money - that’s about the extent of commonality here.


"Some" overlap indeed.  The Venn diagram of Putin's capitalist motivations and his imperialist motivations is a flat circle.



Foxi4 said:


> Nobody is entitled to the fruits of my labour besides me.


We agree on that, but I'm obligated to point out that capitalism without very stringent regulations fails to deliver on this point.  Wage theft is more rampant than it has ever been, particularly within the corporate realm.



Foxi4 said:


> You can call that capitalism if you will, I treat it as Russian imperialism, and Putin is keen on admitting that the latter is the case - he wouldn’t be revising history if it wasn’t.


If Putin ever admitted he was a diehard capitalist who relies on a global economy to maintain his standard of luxury, that would be the end of his reign.  So of course that's not something he advertises to the Russian people at large.  Xi Jingping and his oligarchs are in the exact same position, in too deep to drop the facade now.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You and many others exhibited the same behavior, so you're not one to talk.


I withheld military aid from Ukraine and complimented Putin?  Gonna need receipts for that claim, bud.



BitMasterPlus said:


> And yet he's still gonna take Ukraine.


He's not, not with any sense of permanence.  Ukraine has plenty of experience ousting Russian puppet governments.



BitMasterPlus said:


> a man who did nothing but strengthen America


We're talking about the same guy right?  The one whose supporters do nothing but threaten civil war and assault McDonald's employees when their dollar menu food doesn't come out fast enough?  Some epitome of "strength" that is.  



BitMasterPlus said:


> Dude, they have on more than one occasion support Putin and invasion openly.


Yes that was China's position in the beginning, and I'm sure it would've remained as such if the invasion had gone as smoothly as Putin had planned.  It obviously hasn't, however, and so now China has stated definitively that they will not be lending any of their forces to the effort, and that their economic support for Russia also has its limits.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Like gives a shit what any media, even his own, think about him. He's still gonna do what he wants regardless.


I mean yeah, that's what dictators do.  At least until they end up committing suicide in a bunker.  It doesn't change the fact that he's losing the war in Ukraine, and he's now also losing the information war at home.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh, and I'm guessing you're living through it yourself right now?


I didn't say I was.  Takes ten seconds of Googling to pull up numerous videos of the panic and chaos that's ensuing in Russian supermarkets right now.  Especially over the sugar shortage, that stuff is definitely addictive.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Yes, I think they're gonna win, but that doesn't mean I support them.


What you have to understand by now is that at least half of Russia's power came from the image they were projecting to the rest of the world.  That illusion has been dispelled now, and so they've lost no matter what happens in Ukraine from here on out.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Stop grasping at straws you condescending dumb fuck.


How about you stop getting your ego wrapped up in what the world thinks about Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin?  Either one would tie you up and rape your mother while staring you down before they'd lift a finger to improve any small aspect of society in their respective countries.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Capitalist nations haven risen and fallen just like any other, and if managing to scrape by for a few hundred years is a "win," then I guess Egypt's caste system beats out both communism and capitalism.


Lots of progress going on in Egypt, how will I ever recover? Nevermind the fact that the introduction of capitalism led to the most prolific period of progress in human history, forget that.


> Already debunked that, which is why I assumed you dropped the "consensual" part as a concession.  Consent can only be given if both parties agree to something of their own free will, unburdened by the shackles of necessity.


Why? The opposite is true. You haven’t “debunked” anything, you just said that you disagree, and then added a bunch of unrelated tripe. Necessity does not magically override consent, nobody is forcing you to work for any particular employer, or any employer at all. You having biological needs that need satisfying is not an element of force introduced by capitalism, it’s a known quantity. How you satisfy those needs is up to you - for all I care you can live in the woods and gather berries all day. You might run afoul of the government, but capitalism certainly won’t put roadblocks in your way.


> Right...you're just here to misdirect blame from the system itself back down onto working class individuals that keep it functioning.  Very noble of you.


That’s correct. I’m not responsible for fuck-ups fucking up - that’s their deal. Not the system’s fault - do better. I don’t divide people by class either, by the way - seems like unnecessary division to me.


> Sure, and if we're continuing to be frank: it works far more efficiently that way as opposed to the private sector spending other peoples' money.  A vial of insulin in the US can cost up to $600.  What is it in Poland?  $5?  Free?  That's the difference between capitalism adding unnecessary layers of obfuscation or not.  The private sector will literally weigh peoples' lives against the value of a necessary surgery and say "nah."  The death panels Sarah Palin once ranted about are real, she just didn't realize she was talking about insurance companies.


Complete nonsense. The American healthcare system is anything but free market - your prices are elevated because your government royally fucked up insurance-related legislation, in an effort to make it “more accessible”, no less. Capitalism is not to blame when free market forces are being actively suppressed for feel goods. While we’re on the subject of cost, insulin in America costs $300 a vial, not sure where you got your 100% mark-up from. It “costs” the same in Poland - the number just happens to be spread across the rest of society. I don’t see why I should be burdened with your medical bills - getting healthcare coverage for yourself is your responsibility, I’m not your dad. Of course you prefer to pay a portion of income towards a safety net instead because you’re more risk averse - me, I prefer to keep the 9% of income I would’ve otherwise paid in Poland for care that I may never even take advantage of. I guarantee you that I have a better idea on how to spend that money.


> "Some" overlap indeed.  The Venn diagram of Putin's capitalist motivations and his imperialist motivations is a flat circle.


Only for simpletons not familiar with the Soviet Union.


> We agree on that, but I'm obligated to point out that capitalism without very stringent regulations fails to deliver on this point.  Wage theft is more rampant than it has ever been, particularly within the corporate realm.


Ah, another buzz word. I love when people use umbrella terms that can mean eight different things without specifying what they actually mean. My favourite kind of meat is animal, by the way.


> If Putin ever admitted he was a diehard capitalist who relies on a global economy to maintain his standard of luxury, that would be the end of his reign.  So of course that's not something he advertises to the Russian people at large.  Xi Jingping and his oligarchs are in the exact same position, in too deep to drop the facade now.


Putin is a dictator, not a capitalist, by the very definition of what capitalism is. We can shake on crony capitalist if you’re looking for a middle point, but crony capitalism is the antithesis of actual capitalism.

Honestly, as I said earlier, we’ve had this conversation a zillion times, and we’re not going to see eye to eye on this. From my perspective you’re endorsing highway robbery for the greater good. I don’t believe in the greater good, not when it comes at the cost of the individual - the greatest good is the right to self-determine one’s own fate, which is by definition a double-edged sword and entails risk, in all facets of life. All of this is detracting from the conversation at hand, so I won’t be chatting about this side topic anymore - focus on Putin, Russia and Ukraine instead of pointless diversions and odes to a system long gone.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 17, 2022)

China has not changed its stance on the conflict.
It blames NATO for escalating but supports neither the war nor sanctions.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Lots of progress going on in Egypt, how will I ever recover?


Sorry, I forgot to clarify that I was referring to ancient Egypt, not modern.  That caste system outlasted virtually every capitalist empire that has been erected since, so I was only demonstrating that there are no clear parameters for an economic system "winning," least of all longevity.



Foxi4 said:


> How you satisfy those needs is up to you - for all I care you can live in the woods and gather berries all day. You might run afoul of the government, but capitalism certainly won’t put roadblocks in your way.


You're kidding, right?  Capitalism itself is the biggest roadblock ever to people attempting to live off the land.  The cops will eventually show up and tell you that the unmarked land belongs to someone else, and you're going to jail for stealing those berries.  Hell, good luck even finding a free source of water that isn't contaminated.



Foxi4 said:


> That’s correct. I’m not responsible for fuck-ups fucking up - that’s their deal. Not the system’s fault - do better.


You're the one contending that there is no better economic system when it comes to providing for the working class.  The onus is on you to prove that, but instead you seem more interested in reinforcing the validity of my arguments for me.



Foxi4 said:


> I don’t divide people by class either, by the way - seems like unnecessary division to me.


“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” - Anatole France



Foxi4 said:


> The American healthcare system is anything but free market


Correct, but only because we don't have a proper public option.  It's a market entirely dominated by the interests of the private sector, and it's always in their interest to raise prices unnecessarily.  They know people will pay no matter what because it's literally a matter of life and death.  We have more than enough data points to confirm that privatization of healthcare, education, and/or law enforcement _always_ ends in disaster, which is why all the smart European nations avoid it like the plague.



Foxi4 said:


> Only for simpletons not familiar with the Soviet Union.


The Soviet Union is dead, and at his age I doubt Putin can even remember a time before he was motivated by self-interest first and foremost.



Foxi4 said:


> Ah, another buzz word. I love when people use umbrella terms that can mean eight different things without specifying what they actually mean.


Damn...eight?  Clearly you know about several forms of ongoing wage theft that even I wasn't aware existed.  God forbid we patch those holes in the system if you're benefiting from them, though.  /s



Foxi4 said:


> Putin is a dictator, not a capitalist, by the very definition of what capitalism is.


Capitalism is strictly an economic system, remember?  Russia can and has existed as a capitalist dictatorship for a long time now, with Putin taking a cut of everything from both the private and public sectors.  It's not the first time oligarchs have risen from a capitalist framework, and it sure as shit won't be the last.



Foxi4 said:


> We can shake on crony capitalist if you’re looking for a middle point, but crony capitalism is the antithesis of actual capitalism.


That's always the result of a capitalist free market with zero regulations in place.  It's why literally no country on Earth embraces "anarcho-capitalism."  It's self-contradictory and not even a good idea on paper.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> China has not changed its stance on the conflict.
> It blames NATO for escalating but supports neither the war nor sanctions.




I wonder why China doesn't recognise DNR and LNR


----------



## Xzi (Mar 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> China has not changed its stance on the conflict.
> It blames NATO for escalating but supports neither the war nor sanctions.


It was more of a tonal shift, though yes, technically they've been "neutral" the whole time.

In other news, it seems Putin is now scrambling to find a scapegoat for his own failings: Putin allegedly orders arrest of top military chief.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 18, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> I wonder why China doesn't recognise DNR and LNR


Why would it?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> China has not changed its stance on the conflict.
> It blames NATO for escalating but supports neither the war nor sanctions.


Lol sure China just told Russia to fuck off.. CCP does not think Putin is worth it any more


----------



## djpannda (Mar 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Why would it?


Can’t wait for CCP script to change on you next week


----------



## Coto (Mar 18, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Can’t wait for CCP script to change on you next week





djpannda said:


> Lol sure China just told Russia to fuck off.. CCP does not think Putin is worth it any more





Coto said:


> If anything China doesn't want this to escalate further because they've been supporting WHO / United Nations from the start
> and they're currently *taking over Latin America through fake coups and socialist governments*
> 
> 
> ...


Called it


----------



## djpannda (Mar 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> China has not changed its stance on the conflict.
> It blames NATO for escalating but supports neither the war nor sanctions.


Lol maybe this video circulating in Chinese social media, would cause enough rattles


----------



## SG854 (Mar 18, 2022)

More then Half of the Worlds Population didn't support UN to condemn Russia



https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/poli...olation-more-half-world-population-didnt-back


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Sorry, I forgot to clarify that I was referring to ancient Egypt, not modern.  That caste system outlasted virtually every capitalist empire that has been erected since, so I was only demonstrating that there are no clear parameters for an economic system "winning," least of all longevity.
> 
> You're kidding, right?  Capitalism itself is the biggest roadblock ever to people attempting to live off the land.  The cops will eventually show up and tell you that the unmarked land belongs to someone else, and you're going to jail for stealing those berries.  Hell, good luck even finding a free source of water that isn't contaminated.
> 
> ...


Funny you say that, considering the fact that crony capitalism requires collusion between the business and the political spheres in order to exist, and as such cannot exist in a theoretical anarcho-capitalist society. What you said is impossible (just like a successful communist state - talk about an oxymoron ). It’s generally hard to collude with a government that doesn’t exist. Capitalism also uplifted the world from poverty - verifiably so. The 20th century was a period of the biggest poverty reduction in history, in no small part thanks to capitalism (I’d argue primarily). The Swiss would like to have a word in regards to privatisation of the public sector, as well as Israel, but we’ve been through that last time and you didn’t retain any of it. As for Putin, the reason why I specifically call him a dictator rather than a capitalist is because he is *not* a titan of industry - he makes his money via crooked policy, not engaging in commerce. This really isn’t complicated, bud. Boy, oh boy - you guys really don’t know much about what you’re talking about, but you sure like throwing around big terms you don’t quite understand. Neither here nor there, I have no interest in having the same conversation 8 times - you don’t seem to have done any research since last time.


----------



## Th3tM3t (Mar 18, 2022)

will gbatemps ever be free of people talking about ukraine lmao


----------



## Xzi (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Funny you say that, considering the fact that crony capitalism requires collusion between the business and the political spheres in order to exist


It's not an accident though, it's just late-stage capitalism.  More money, more land, more property = more power.  So the private sector always ends up swallowing the smaller public sector in the transitory stages toward oligarchy, by design.



Foxi4 said:


> The Swiss would like to have a word in regards to privatisation of the public sector, as well as Israel, but we’ve been through that last time and you didn’t retain any of it.


So two countries coasting off of various foreign "donations" are your examples of privatized healthcare that works well for the middle and lower classes?  I'd be shocked if you told me either even had a middle or lower class in the truest sense.  Well...we know that Israel has booted out and then bombed much of its brown population, err I mean lower class.



Foxi4 said:


> As for Putin, the reason why I specifically call him a dictator rather than a capitalist is because he is *not* a titan of industry - he makes his money his via crooked policy, not engaging in commerce.


Oh please, don't play dumb.  His crooked policy extends to every facet of commerce.  Whether it's explicitly written into the law like it is in China or not, the Kremlin is guaranteed to take a cut of everything that corporations and even small businesses do in Russia.  I'm fine with calling Putin a dictator first and a capitalist second, but there's no avoiding the fact that he is both.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's not an accident though, it's just late-stage capitalism.  More money, more land, more property = more power.  So the private sector always ends up swallowing the smaller public sector in the transitory stages toward oligarchy, by design.
> 
> 
> So two countries coasting off of various foreign "donations" are your examples of privatized healthcare that works well for the middle and lower classes?  I'd be shocked if you told me either even had a middle or lower class in the truest sense.  Well...we know that Israel has booted out and then bombed much of its brown population, err I mean lower class.
> ...


”Late-stage capitalism” completes the list of buzzwords, I now know exactly where you got your economic know-how from lol. Maybe read a little bit of material from the other side of the aisle as well before you preach - y’know, for the sake of being informed and understanding the basics. I’m just going to ignore most of this since I addressed it already elsewhere and focus on Putin. The man doesn’t produce anything, he doesn’t sell anything, he’s heavily invested. The way he makes money is by now waning stock of, for instance, oil companies and then shaping policy, as well as spending public monies, on making sure that the value of oil is where he needs it. That’s not capitalism, that’s crony capitalism, enabled by authoritarian power. The order is important. He is not a “capitalist” in any sense of the word as he does not operate in the market - he sets the market, although admittedly less than China does in their corner of Commieland.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> ”Late-stage capitalism” completes the list of buzzwords, I now know exactly where you got your economic know-how from lol.


I could use the phrase "terminal malignant capitalism" if you prefer.  



Foxi4 said:


> Maybe read a little bit of material from the other side of the aisle as well before you preach - y’know, for the sake of being informed and understanding the basics.


Material from the other side of the aisle isn't informative on this topic though.  It only teaches you how to be more cold and calculating, more accepting of human suffering as a "necessary byproduct" of the system.  Easy to find the examples of that in your reasoning, certainly.



Foxi4 said:


> He is not a “capitalist” in any sense of the word as he does not operate in the market - he sets the market, although admittedly less than China does in their corner of Commieland.


To profit from the private sector is to acknowledge its legitimacy, and Putin profits from both foreign and domestic private enterprise.  None of his most valuable assets/possessions were made in Russia, so it's an invalid argument that he operates exclusively within the market he controls.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I could use the phrase "terminal malignant capitalism" if you prefer.
> 
> Material from the other side of the aisle isn't informative on this topic though.  It only teaches you how to be more cold and calculating, more accepting of human suffering as a "necessary byproduct" of the system.  Easy to find the examples of that in your reasoning, certainly.
> 
> To profit from the private sector is to acknowledge its legitimacy, and Putin profits from both foreign and domestic private enterprise.  None of his most valuable assets/possessions were made in Russia, so it's an invalid argument that he operates exclusively within the market he controls.


At least you admit you’re not well-versed in the subject - good first step. The market is global. 53% of Russia’s energy supply comes from natural gas, another 18% comes from oil and coal-based liquids. It accounts for 60% of Russia’s export, 39% of the federation’s budget comes directly from fossil fuel related revenues. Ukraine alone supplies 70% of the world’s neon and 40% of krypton - having a stooge in Ukraine hands Putin control over the world’s semiconductor supply as those gasses are prerequisites for chip manufacturing, among a myriad of other industrial applications. His “most valuable asset” is the ability to manipulate extraction markets based on his position, that’s his golden hen. Being “cold and calculating” allows me to see things the way they are, I’ll leave worrying about irrelevant factors to your camp.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The market is global. 53% of Russia’s energy supply comes from natural gas, another 18% comes from oil and coal-based liquids. It accounts for 60% of Russia’s export, 39% of the federation’s budget comes directly from fossil fuel related revenues. Ukraine alone supplies 70% of the world’s neon and 40% of krypton - having a stooge in Ukraine hands Putin control over the world’s semiconductor supply as those gasses are prerequisites for chip manufacturing, among a myriad of other industrial applications. His “most valuable asset” is the ability to manipulate extraction markets based on his position, that’s his golden hen.


I already knew the general outline of all of this, but I appreciate the exact percentages I suppose.  Reading between the lines, it sounds an awful lot like you agreeing with me that a good portion of Putin's motivations were in pursuit of capital gain, and I appreciate that as well.



Foxi4 said:


> Being “cold and calculating” allows me to see things the way they are, I’ll leave worrying about irrelevant factors to your camp.


Nah, it ultimately cripples your ability to see the forest for the trees.  More plainly: right-wing economists always favor short-term gains for the few over long-term stability and a rising tide for all.  The more money and resources you inject into the middle and lower classes, the stronger the economy becomes, because that money actually gets spent rather than sitting stagnant in an offshore bank account.  Have the public sector take care of healthcare, education, and the justice system, and that money gets spread around even more.  "Compassionate capitalism" still has its flaws, but it's far better than the "sociopath capitalism" trajectory that the US has been on at times lately.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I withheld military aid from Ukraine and complimented Putin?  Gonna need receipts for that claim, bud.
> 
> 
> He's not, not with any sense of permanence.  Ukraine has plenty of experience ousting Russian puppet governments.
> ...


I bet this long winded responses makes you feel like you've got some big dick energy, huh?


----------



## spoggi (Mar 18, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I bet this long winded responses makes you feel like you've got some big dick energy, huh?


Now that you like to talk about dicks why don't you migrate back to russia
then you can suck putin's little worm


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I already knew the general outline of all of this, but I appreciate the exact percentages I suppose.  Reading between the lines, it sounds an awful lot like you agreeing with me that a good portion of Putin's motivations were in pursuit of capital gain, and I appreciate that as well.


I don’t know how you get that out of what I said. Those are all imperialistic pursuits that are aimed specifically at solidifying the Russian Federation’s position as a global superpower in areas other than nuclear capability. It’s a pursuit of power - Putin doesn’t have to pursue wealth, he’s the dictator of Russia, he can already have whatever he pleases.


> Nah, it ultimately cripples your ability to see the forest for the trees.  More plainly: right-wing economists always favor short-term gains for the few over long-term stability and a rising tide for all.  The more money and resources you inject into the middle and lower classes, the stronger the economy becomes, because that money actually gets spent rather than sitting stagnant in an offshore bank account.  Have the public sector take care of healthcare, education, and the justice system, and that money gets spread around even more.  "Compassionate capitalism" still has its flaws, but it's far better than the "sociopath capitalism" trajectory that the US has been on at times lately.


Math doesn’t care about feelings. Enjoy the growing deficit and exploding inflation. If you’re looking for a rising tide of prosperity, you’re looking in the wrong places.


----------



## spoggi (Mar 18, 2022)

Cool of China that they now have said they don't support russia in any way
they even have shown videos showing russia killing innocent people from Ukraine

In any way is maybe a little over exaggerated


----------



## spoggi (Mar 18, 2022)

Hope China didn't support russian soldiers with their food rations. 
So there is a chance that they will begin to starve before they do more damage


----------



## djpannda (Mar 18, 2022)

When pirates are more eithical than the Kremlin

The Kremlin unblocked a torrent site so Russians can watch movies - so the site has banned Russians from using it​
but I do feel  like it was a lost chance to Trick Russians to watch whats really happening by just changing the file names
Russian:: "YEs the new Batman"  screen turn turn to Ukrainian hospital being bombed and Russian POWs telling the Truth.


----------



## AncientBoi (Mar 18, 2022)

FuqPutin. is my answer.

But then.. Maybe I should invest in a game like Fallout, to see if I could survive.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 18, 2022)

another Ukriane Bundle, This time from HumbleBundle. over 123 items at 40$
I already own alot of it but its for a good cause .
*The Stand With Ukraine bundle features over 120 pieces of content worth over $2,500*


----------



## Nothereed (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Enjoy the growing deficit


I guess this the time to give the reminder that there is nothing backing the us dollar or a lot of currencies in the modern day. It's a construct humans made. Which I should add, the United states goverment keeps increasing the deficit budget. Has there been any negative consequences? If your going to say inflation. Inflation directly stems from, well, money, which is a human concept, that if say we threw out the dollar, which would make a deficit meaningless, and perhaps just. Idk... provide people with housing? Food? Water? I mean we already overproduce those things. We aren't in a scarcity society... well until climate change destroys food supplys



Foxi4 said:


> When there’s five people in the room and four of them democratically decide to take the belongings of the fifth for themselves, that’s called a mugging.


And when there's one person that owns every single house in a ten mile radius and the rest has to pay that person monthly, because they had more money is what is called landlords.
So your telling me that when the "4" out of 5 people get frustrated the fact this system is bs. Because you were born with a spoon in your mouth, that you essentially get to control a unreasonable amount of space through the power of money. You also get to profit off it. How is that any different from scalping? It rob's the ability for others to have basic necessities. Like housing, since the price is now artificially driven higher for profit. And when there's a loophole (enter rolling houses you own as a landlord into a predatory mortgage that makes banks fuck tons) then you get 2008.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 18, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Now that you like to talk about dicks why don't you migrate back to russia
> then you can suck putin's little worm


Oh wow you sure got me. Why don't you get splitroasted by Biden and Zelenskyy then?


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I guess this the time to give the reminder that there is nothing backing the us dollar or a lot of currencies in the modern day. It's a construct humans made. Which I should add, the United states goverment keeps increasing the deficit budget. Has there been any negative consequences? If your going to say inflation. Inflation directly stems from, well, money, which is a human concept, that if say we threw out the dollar, which would make a deficit meaningless, and perhaps just. Idk... provide people with housing? Food? Water? I mean we already overproduce those things. We aren't in a scarcity society... well until climate change destroys food supplys
> 
> And when there's one person that owns every single house in a ten mile radius and the rest has to pay that person monthly, because they had more money is what is called landlords.
> So your telling me that when the "4" out of 5 people get frustrated the fact this system is bs. Because you were born with a spoon in your mouth, that you essentially get to control a unreasonable amount of space through the power of money. You also get to profit off it. How is that any different from scalping? It rob's the ability for others to have basic necessities. Like housing, since the price is now artificially driven higher for profit. And when there's a loophole (enter rolling houses you own as a landlord into a predatory mortgage that makes banks fuck tons) then you get 2008.


Guy on the internet figures out what a fiat currency is - give him a clap. Shame that he doesn’t understand how those work. Tune in next time when we learn that the economy is not a zero sum game. You don’t know me and the circumstances of my birth, so cut that out. Listen, this is a thread about the conflict in Ukraine. If your post doesn’t tie into that, perhaps it doesn’t belong.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Those are all imperialistic pursuits that are aimed specifically at solidifying the Russian Federation’s position as a global superpower in areas other than nuclear capability.


Yes...specifically the area of global trade, and even more specifically an increased involvement in the global private sector.  There is nothing more capitalist than an oligarch, as they're basically corporations unto themselves.


Foxi4 said:


> Math doesn’t care about feelings. Enjoy the growing deficit and exploding inflation. If you’re looking for a rising tide of prosperity, you’re looking in the wrong places.


Lol, as if the deficit wasn't growing and inflation wasn't exploding simply due to all our annual corporate handouts.  Take literally a fraction of that and invest it in the working class instead, we'd have a much stronger and more sustainable economy that doesn't crash once every decade.  We can look at Poland or just about any EU member nation for confirmation of that.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I bet this long winded responses makes you feel like you've got some big dick energy, huh?


Not sure how one would convey that through text.  It's fairly average if you're really that curious, but I am straight and I don't date alt-reich weridos.  Sorry.


----------



## spoggi (Mar 19, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh wow you sure got me. Why don't you get splitroasted by Biden and Zelenskyy then?


Sorry but i don't know the word splitroasted, they didn't learn me about that in school.
does it mean barbecue a steak splitted in two


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 19, 2022)

Are people in this thread still coping or did they notice Saudi Arabia is looking at the Yuan over the dollar?

You guys thought Russia would ceasefire because of the Funko pop sanctions


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 19, 2022)

The Saudis are not considering the Yuan over the USD. They are considering to sell their oil to China (which account for one fourth of their exports) in Yuan instead of USD.

This challenge to the USD is very dangerous to the world. Russia lashes out against its neighbors when it feels its existence is threatened. The US lash out against the world if they feel their money is threatened (see Gadafi and Hussein).


----------



## Taleweaver (Mar 19, 2022)

djpannda said:


> When pirates are more eithical than the Kremlin
> 
> The Kremlin unblocked a torrent site so Russians can watch movies - so the site has banned Russians from using it​
> but I do feel  like it was a lost chance to Trick Russians to watch whats really happening by just changing the file names
> Russian:: "YEs the new Batman"  screen turn turn to Ukrainian hospital being bombed and Russian POWs telling the Truth.


*blink *

Wait... That's a weird turn of events.

I get the reasoning, but what kind of message does this give?

*site *: "hey, guys... We've got lots of hacks and warez here... But it's only available for you if it's illegal. We don't want nobody to come here legally! "

But I somewhat agree outright banning Russians wouldn't be the thing I'd do... 

I'd put up banners and captcha images of the war:
* please click on all images containing Ukrainian shot buildings to continue
* click here to prove you're not a robot or someone mindlessly following Russian state tv
* please wait before downloading until 60 new children have become refugees

Yes, it's tasteless and morbid. But ey... The Kremlin allows Russians to go there, so...


----------



## Xzi (Mar 20, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> Do not believe the MSM.


Guess that rules out believing any of the propaganda from RT you just posted then.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 20, 2022)

Or maybe both things can be true? Does one forgive the other? No.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 20, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Or maybe both things can be true? Does one forgive the other? No.


That's just muddying the waters though.  Russia are invading Ukraine and currently targeting civilians in specific.  It'd be silly to believe Ukrainians would be attacking their own people in the middle of that without some solid sourcing, especially after all the bullshit claims the Kremlin has made in the midst of all this.  They even made a deepfake video of Zeleskyy surrendering.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That's just muddying the waters though.  Russia are invading Ukraine and currently targeting civilians in specific.  It'd be silly to believe Ukrainians would be attacking their own people in the middle of that without some solid sourcing, especially after all the bullshit claims the Kremlin has made in the midst of all this.  They even made a deepfake video of Zeleskyy surrendering.


I have no problem with muddy water, it's good for your immune system.

I also don't think they are doing it right now as it would make little sense to me, but I do know they have done it plenty over the last 8 years so it's not like they are squeaky clean individuals.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 20, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I also don't think they are doing it right now as it would make little sense to me, but I do know they have done it plenty over the last 8 years so it's not like they are squeaky clean individuals.


Right, and if the videos he's posting are from 2014 or something, they hardly have anything to do with the topic at hand, now do they?  Just more whataboutism.  If and when Ukraine starts bombing Russia's hospitals and schools indiscriminately, then we can make some apples to apples comparisons.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 20, 2022)

lol we've should be grateful to russian they are here providing us with jailbroken games for free


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 20, 2022)

Russian websites are actually pretty good in that regard. And Arabic ones. I guess nobody cares to take them down. As long as you can navigate the website, it´s pretty neat. Or so I was told. Of course I wouldn´t use those sites.


----------



## lokomelo (Mar 20, 2022)

@subcon959

For Americans if you don't refer specifically 
of Russian violence (China is allowed too), you are mudding the waters, being "whataboutist", being fooled by Russian propaganda, and so on.

They care much more for their geopolitical rivals than for peace or justice. That's why there was almost no concern about the Azerbaijan invasion of Armenia. The Yemen bombings killing children right now is not concerning for them too.

That said, the violence from Ukraine authorities, it's people or it's allies is a dwarf near the violence giant from Russia. They killed pregnant women, for fuck sake.

For exemple, I got deeply touched when Ukrainians didn't let black people (many Brazilians were there) leave on the border posts, being utterly racist, but this is a dwarf near Russian atrocities.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 20, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> lol we've should be grateful to russian they are here providing us with jailbroken games for free


And they could just as easily provide that service from another country, or under different leadership.  Putin and his gang of oligarchs gotta go.



lokomelo said:


> They care much more for their geopolitical rivals than for peace or justice. That's why there was almost no concern about the Azerbaijan invasion of Armenia. The Yemen bombings killing children right now is not concerning for them too.


Russia invading its neighbors is enough to get the entire world's attention because it's a potential threat to much of the world.  What's going on in Yemen is a civil war, so the US has no right to be picking sides there.  Though you're right about the Armenia conflict being largely overshadowed by Ukraine, the US isn't about to deploy to the Middle East again regardless, let alone to countries that share a border with Iran.  Therefore it's largely up to the surrounding powers to help bring a resolution to that, we can't continue to be world police forever (not that we ever should've been playing that role to begin with).


----------



## smf (Mar 20, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> I get the reasoning, but what kind of message does this give?


The message is that pirates refuse to be weaponized & want to distance themselves from a country that fires missiles at maternity hospitals and then lies about it being used by terrorists.



lokomelo said:


> For exemple, I got deeply touched when Ukrainians didn't let black people (many Brazilians were there) leave on the border posts, being utterly racist, but this is a dwarf near Russian atrocities.


Can you provide a link?

There were some Brazilian footballers stuck in Ukraine because planes were grounded & leaving by land was dangerous because of the Russian invasion. I don't see how that is racist???



subcon959 said:


> I also don't think they are doing it right now as it would make little sense to me, but I do know they have done it plenty over the last 8 years so it's not like they are squeaky clean individuals.


You mean when the Ukraine army were fighting against Russian backed separatists who were trying to steal their country and shooting down passenger planes (MH17)?

Russia has been behind this all along. They know what they are doing and it seems to have worked on you.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Mar 20, 2022)

i support russia but i also didn't want to miss a chance buy a cheap bundle like this
https://www.humblebundle.com/stand-...el_tile_index_1_c_ukrainecharitybundle_bundle


----------



## annavelichko (Mar 20, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> As we speak, thousands of Russian military units are deployed near the Ukraine borders. According to Putin, everything's fine and there's nothing to worry about.
> 
> But everyone else seems to do exactly that. Ukraine 's political leaders (at least the president and Kiev' s major) ask the international insurances for help, Biden's issuising warnings of sanctions should it come to an invasion and the EU is asking their citizens to at least avoid going to the region. Belgium's sort of pulling out personnel.
> 
> ...


As Ukrainan i can say you that situation is relly intense and lots of Ukrainan civillians dying every day. Thats sad, but there is lots of options for foreigners to help Ukraine, just google it. Also i think this obvious to all people except russians, that Ukraine gonna win this war becouse our army is strong and civilains brave and united.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Mar 20, 2022)

I cannot handle the Russian assets here trying to say that Ukraine isn't being "invaded" or getting bombed.

innocent people, women...children, are getting killed because of Russia's greed to take their land, economy and resources.

To anyone that says this genocide is justified, please withdraw yourself from society and all of humanity and think about what you're saying....unless you're just a piece of shit fascist with no conscience   



annavelichko said:


> As Ukrainan i can say you that situation is relly intense and lots of Ukrainan civillians dying every day. Thats sad, but there is lots of options for foreigners to help Ukraine, just google it. Also i think this obvious to all people except russians, that Ukraine gonna win this war becouse our army is strong and civilains brave and united.


_Slava Ukraini_


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 20, 2022)

smf said:


> Russia has been behind this all along. They know what they are doing and it seems to have worked on you.


You don't know a single fucking thing about me so get off your high horse.

Just because I support Ukraine against Russia's illegal invasion doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed over the last 8 years _by both sides_.


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 20, 2022)

As a Ukrainian I say that everything here is terrible... 
I used to live in the capital of Ukraine, but now I have to hide in the west of Ukraine because it's safer here. I never even thought that this could happen... The fact that I got out was very lucky for me. It was March 24th, when at 5 am my sister called me and told me to pack up and get my mom, we were leaving. I was in shock without exaggeration. I wake up my mother and she refuses to go anywhere and does not believe that we were attacked. As a result, after two weeks she realized that everything was terrible and went to her home village, where it was safer. That's to say in brief. If you have any questions, I can answer them. Glory to Ukraine! Слава Укрїні!


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## Dark_Ansem (Mar 20, 2022)

Joker25 said:


> As a Ukrainian I say that everything here is terrible...
> I used to live in the capital of Ukraine, but now I have to hide in the west of Ukraine because it's safer here. I never even thought that this could happen... The fact that I got out was very lucky for me. It was March 24th, when at 5 am my sister called me and told me to pack up and get my mom, we were leaving. I was in shock without exaggeration. I wake up my mother and she refuses to go anywhere and does not believe that we were attacked. As a result, after two weeks she realized that everything was terrible and went to her home village, where it was safer. That's to say in brief. If you have any questions, I can answer them. Glory to Ukraine! Слава Укрїні!


I do have one: is it true that public opinion of ALL russians, not just Kremlin oligarchs, is going down the drain?


----------



## shanefromoz (Mar 20, 2022)

Joker25 said:


> As a Ukrainian I say that everything here is terrible...
> I used to live in the capital of Ukraine, but now I have to hide in the west of Ukraine because it's safer here. I never even thought that this could happen... The fact that I got out was very lucky for me. It was March 24th, when at 5 am my sister called me and told me to pack up and get my mom, we were leaving. I was in shock without exaggeration. I wake up my mother and she refuses to go anywhere and does not believe that we were attacked. As a result, after two weeks she realized that everything was terrible and went to her home village, where it was safer. That's to say in brief. If you have any questions, I can answer them. Glory to Ukraine! Слава Укрїні!


Please stay safe. Putin is a criminal and needs to be taken out


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 20, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I do have one: is it true that public opinion of ALL russians, not just Kremlin oligarchs, is going down the drain?


ALL of the Russian people's brains have been washed with such brazen lies, you can't imagine... Virtually every Russian thinks everything is fine and their men are coming to liberate us Ukrainians from fascism, and they think that all the sanctions other countries are doing is the whole world against Russia.They do not realize that their men are killing peaceful people (including women, even children). In some cities all the houses are completely destroyed, and in Russia on March 18 there was a concert in honor of how good they are, the liberators. They are assholes, not people. Their children, fathers and husbands are dying in droves, and they go to concerts! I have no words to express what bitches they are. Unfortunately, I do not speak English to describe the Russians... I am proud that I am Ukrainian and not a zombified bitch from Russia.
Слава Укрїні!


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 20, 2022)

Joker25 said:


> ALL of the Russian people's brains have been washed with such brazen lies, you can't imagine... Virtually every Russian thinks everything is fine and their men are coming to liberate us Ukrainians from fascism, and they think that all the sanctions other countries are doing is the whole world against Russia.They do not realize that their men are killing peaceful people (including women, even children). In some cities all the houses are completely destroyed, and in Russia on March 18 there was a concert in honor of how good they are, the liberators. They are assholes, not people. Their children, fathers and husbands are dying in droves, and they go to concerts! I have no words to express what bitches they are. Unfortunately, I do not speak English to describe the Russians... I am proud that I am Ukrainian and not a zombified bitch from Russia.
> Слава Укрїні!


That answers my question, thank you. I know it means next to nothing, but I root for you, Zelensky and Ukraine. We only have to hope that something good for you happens soon.


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 20, 2022)

shanefromoz said:


> Please stay safe. Putin is a criminal and needs to be taken out


People there believe him so much that only a few try to do something against Putin, and those who know the truth are afraid! So the only option is to isolate them from the world and take them out by force!
Thank you for your support


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 20, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> That answers my question, thank you. I know it means next to nothing, but I root for you and Zelensky. We only have to hope that something good for you happens soon.


Thank you for your support! It's a small thing, but it's very much needed for us! But I would also like to add that hundreds of thousands of people have lost their peaceful lives because of Putin, and I am one of them. I was doing fine: I was studying on a scholarship, I had an internship, I met my love, my family was employed. And now everything is terrible: I don't know how to finish my studies under such conditions, my relatives are unemployed at the moment, my girlfriend is hundreds of kilometers away from me (and most likely she will move to America, and we don't know when we will see each other at all). Oh yes also our family had two apartments (type of investment) and now the war began, and money is not so much that would be comfortable to go to another country and build a new life. Thanks again for the support!)


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 20, 2022)

shanefromoz said:


> Please stay safe. Putin is a criminal and needs to be taken out


Thank you for support!


----------



## smf (Mar 20, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> You don't know a single fucking thing about me so get off your high horse.
> 
> Just because I support Ukraine against Russia's illegal invasion doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed over the last 8 years _by both sides_.


I know that you misunderstand what has been going on for the last 8 years.


----------



## Taleweaver (Mar 20, 2022)

Joker25 said:


> As a Ukrainian I say that everything here is terrible...
> I used to live in the capital of Ukraine, but now I have to hide in the west of Ukraine because it's safer here. I never even thought that this could happen... The fact that I got out was very lucky for me. It was March 24th, when at 5 am my sister called me and told me to pack up and get my mom, we were leaving. I was in shock without exaggeration. I wake up my mother and she refuses to go anywhere and does not believe that we were attacked. As a result, after two weeks she realized that everything was terrible and went to her home village, where it was safer. That's to say in brief. If you have any questions, I can answer them. Glory to Ukraine! Слава Укрїні!



Ahem... Is it okay if i ask a more political question? You don't have to answer if you don't want

It's about the cities Luhansk and Donetsk. As a foreigner I hadn't heard about them until they were used as excuse for Russia to invade. They claim its to liberate the oppressed population front (i forgot the name). From my understanding, Zelensky's government considers this group terrorists, or at the very least not representing the general opinion of the area. But at the same time the regions are... Semi independent,somehow? 

*sigh* i don't want to excuse Russia in any way, but i also try to understand their motivations. Other aspects are bullshit (like that denazification), but this i find curious. Hence the question :
How were these cities portrayed in local news before this war began? 



Joker25 said:


> Thank you for your support! It's a small thing, but it's very much needed for us! But I would also like to add that hundreds of thousands of people have lost their peaceful lives because of Putin, and I am one of them. I was doing fine: I was studying on a scholarship, I had an internship, I met my love, my family was employed. And now everything is terrible: I don't know how to finish my studies under such conditions, my relatives are unemployed at the moment, my girlfriend is hundreds of kilometers away from me (and most likely she will move to America, and we don't know when we will see each other at all). Oh yes also our family had two apartments (type of investment) and now the war began, and money is not so much that would be comfortable to go to another country and build a new life. Thanks again for the support!)


That's so terrible to hear. 
I know it's not much comfort, but the far majority of people are looking out for you. Things are certainly bad now, but it won't last. Things will go back to normal somehow. 

I hope


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Guess that rules out believing any of the propaganda from RT you just posted then.


The Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinfo. The ginger haired Ghoul from Fallout said so.

Wait until some if you guys find out about Chechyna. White people and they're Muslim? Leftist worst nightmare.

Edit: Israeli news can be surprisingly reliant sometimes.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 20, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> That said, the violence from Ukraine authorities, it's people or it's allies is a dwarf near the violence giant from Russia. They killed pregnant women, for fuck sake.


If you are referring to that children´s hospital: it had been abandoned by civilians and used by the military. But even if it is true, there are two factual problems:
1) Pregnant women die in all wars in which civilians die. You think they don´t die in e.g. Yemen?
2) There was a pregnant woman among the people who were burnt in Odessa. It is possible that she was strangled to death prior to that as the photo suggests.

However, I will grant you that Russians are probably going to kill more civilians than Ukrainian military and private battalions did between 2014 and 2022. So far they might not have, but the war could become even more ugly.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 20, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> The Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinfo.


Broken record.  If Hunter Biden did something criminal, let him be charged.  I'm not holding my breath however, as we know all of Trump's kids (save perhaps Barron) are guilty of crimes and they haven't been charged yet.  This is America after all, if you're rich enough the law doesn't apply.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Broken record.  If Hunter Biden did something criminal, let him be charged.  I'm not holding my breath however, as we know all of Trump's kids (save perhaps Barron) are guilty of crimes and they haven't been charged yet.  This is America after all, if you're rich enough the law doesn't apply.


Even worse than broken record, it's completely pointless, as it's tax related, not corruption or you know, serious sh*t.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Broken record.  If Hunter Biden did something criminal, let him be charged.  I'm not holding my breath however, as we know all of Trump's kids (save perhaps Barron) are guilty of crimes and they haven't been charged yet.  This is America after all, if you're rich enough the law doesn't apply.





Dark_Ansem said:


> Even worse than broken record, it's completely pointless, as it's tax related, not corruption or you know, serious sh*t.


"That never happened"
`Here's proof tho`
"WOW MAN BROKEN RECORD. THATS NOT IMPORTANT. LOOK AT TRUMP'S TAXES THO. I DON'T KNOW WHAT CAPITAL GAINS TAX IS"

show me your funkos


----------



## Xzi (Mar 21, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> "That never happened"
> `Here's proof tho`


"Here's 4chan's half-assed idea of "proof," surely good enough to hold up in a court of law, right? ...Right?"



idontgetit said:


> show me your funkos


I have a small collection of Amiibos, no funkos though.  Hate the generic design of em.


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 21, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> The Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinfo.


Speaking of "rent free".


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 21, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Ahem... Is it okay if i ask a more political question? You don't have to answer if you don't want
> 
> It's about the cities Luhansk and Donetsk. As a foreigner I hadn't heard about them until they were used as excuse for Russia to invade. They claim its to liberate the oppressed population front (i forgot the name). From my understanding, Zelensky's government considers this group terrorists, or at the very least not representing the general opinion of the area. But at the same time the regions are... Semi independent,somehow?
> 
> ...


I will try to answer quickly and briefly the motive of Russia's attack on Ukraine is an attempt to reunite the USSR. The Russian president is 70 years old, he has the power, he has a lot of money. And lastly, he wanted to try to make history this way. 
I will be honest, I was 9 years old when the fighting began in 2014 and I didn't understand anything. They just drove into our territory and claimed it was theirs now. All these years they were arguing about whose Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk belonged to them, and then Zelensky came along and started not only talking but also doing something. That democratic elections would take place in these cities, etc. And Russian citizens have only one thought in their heads: "They are Nazis, fascists and Putin is our everything". 
Also, in 2014, Putin had good friends in the form of the President of Ukraine (Yanukovich) and Belarus (Lukashenko). So in Ukraine, the people were stronger than the government and overthrew it at the cost of thousands of deaths. There is a song that describes it all very well, enter Yarmak "22" on YouTube and turn on the subtitles. So in Ukraine we just defeated it all in 2014, in Belarus they tried somehow, but it didn't work out, and in Russia they didn't even try.
I don't know much about politics, but Putin's goal is to recreate the USSR and for him it's like a game: either he wins and he's on the gun or the end.


----------



## Joker25 (Mar 21, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Ahem... Is it okay if i ask a more political question? You don't have to answer if you don't want
> 
> It's about the cities Luhansk and Donetsk. As a foreigner I hadn't heard about them until they were used as excuse for Russia to invade. They claim its to liberate the oppressed population front (i forgot the name). From my understanding, Zelensky's government considers this group terrorists, or at the very least not representing the general opinion of the area. But at the same time the regions are... Semi independent,somehow?
> 
> ...


Yes, now everyone helps us and the government and ordinary people for that we are very grateful!!!!
We will win and everything will come back to our dreams! Cлава Україні!


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> Time segment on Azov Batallion from 2021.
> 
> 
> Clip from the Colbert Report w/Gideon Rose (Foreign Affairs) discussing the US/NATO Ukraine strategy under Obama in 2014, during the Maidan coup.  What's that the media is saying about it not being US/UK/NATO's fault?
> ...




Fox News and RT? Are you being serious?


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 21, 2022)

smf said:


> I know that you misunderstand what has been going on for the last 8 years.


You're right, the Azov battalion was just a figment of my imagination. It must be nice to live in such a black and white world, personally I find it difficult to ignore the nuance.


----------



## smf (Mar 21, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> You're right, the Azov battalion was just a figment of my imagination. It must be nice to live in such a black and white world, personally I find it difficult to ignore the nuance.


You have ignored the nuance and are living in a black and white world.

You would sue someone for hurting your hand when you punched them in the face.

There are bad people everywhere, that is not what defines a "side".

You need to work on your nuance.



Joker25 said:


> I don't know much about politics, but Putin's goal is to recreate the USSR and for him it's like a game: either he wins and he's on the gun or the end.



Well I guess we ought to prepare for the end, though I am not convinced that he would survive an attempt at launching a nuke. He is only in power because he is useful to the people around him, he is no longer useful once the nukes start dropping on Russia.

US moved to defcon 3 on March 1st. 

ROUND HOUSE
Increase in force readiness above that required for normal readiness
Air Force ready to mobilize in 15 minutes

Game theory shows we should be thinking of moving to defcon 2 soon.

https://newlinesmag.com/argument/why-putin-is-playing-poker-not-chess/


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 21, 2022)

smf said:


> You have ignored the nuance and are living in a black and white world.
> 
> You would sue someone for hurting your hand when you punched them in the face.


Any actual arguments or just more irrelevant waffle?


----------



## smf (Mar 21, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Any actual arguments or just more irrelevant waffle?


What is there to argue with?

I ignore irrelevant whataboutism's, so all I hear from you is blah blah blah

Come back to me when you have something worth discussing. Or don't, I am not bothered.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 21, 2022)

smf said:


> What is there to argue with?
> 
> I ignore irrelevant whataboutism's, so all I hear from you is blah blah blah
> 
> Come back to me when you have something worth discussing. Or don't, I am not bothered.


Yeah, I didn't think so. I get it, it's easier to run away than try to argue for extreme right wing murder squads. Or maybe it's just more convenient to pretend they didn't exist.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

The Azov trash will be an issue in the future. PUTIN is a far worse issue right now, and he's hellbent on genociding Ukraine.


----------



## smf (Mar 21, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Yeah, I didn't think so. I get it, it's easier to run away than try to argue for extreme right wing murder squads. Or maybe it's just more convenient to pretend they didn't exist.


I get it, it's easier to label them an extreme right wing murder squad. Maybe it's just more convenient than making any relevant points.



Dark_Ansem said:


> The Azov trash will be an issue in the future. PUTIN is a far worse issue right now, and he's hellbent on genociding Ukraine.


If anything, any wrong doing by Azov (if it exists) is going to go unpunished because of Putin. He doesn't even care about it. Putin may even have had soldiers infiltrate it for false flags.

It's certainly within his normal tactics. So get rid of Putin & anyone like him and then we will have a better idea about what is true or not.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> The Azov trash will be an issue in the future. PUTIN is a far worse issue right now, and he's hellbent on genociding Ukraine.


again you do know the AZOv "Nazi" were a militia less then 900. When Russia attacked Ukriane in 2014,  Normal Ukrainains joined AZOV, as they were the local Militia, to fight Russia, At that point alot of AZOV "NAZI" were killed in 2014 but Normal UKrianians that kept join out numbered the NAZI... 
and After 2/25 it Tripled members again.. (WITH NORMAL UKRAINIANS) 

This war was never about a "900"NAZI militia as Russia Currently has a 100,000 NAZI militia (RNU). but PUTINS longing for the USSR.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> again you do know the AZOv "Nazi" were a militia less then 900. When Russia attacked Ukriane in 2014,  Normal Ukrainains joined AZOV, as they were the local Militia, to fight Russia, At that point alot of AZOV "NAZI" were killed in 2014 but Normal UKrianians that kept join out numbered the NAZI...
> and After 2/25 it Tripled members again.. (WITH NORMAL UKRAINIANS)
> 
> This war was never about a "900"NAZI militia as Russia Currently has a 100,000 NAZI militia (RNU). but PUTINS longing for the USSR.



That's actually my point. An actual Nazi stats is more worrisome than a couple hundred nazis.


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

Mariupol seized by the URSS 2.0

Still no-fly zone declared. Ah yes, Socialists don't like declaring war, they'd rather give a piece of land and be peaceful as long as China pays.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> Ah yes, Socialists don't like declaring war



Once again, a reason why socialism is the future. I'd never trust anyone who would be willing to open the 3rd World War, or first Nuclear World War, unless literally any other option had been exhausted. And the fact that you're trying (but failing) to score political points exploiting the warm bodies of Ukrainians is... concerning


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Once again, a reason why socialism is the future. I'd never trust anyone who would be willing to open the 3rd World War, or first Nuclear World War. And the fact that you're trying (but failing) to score political points exploiting the warm bodies of Ukrainians is... concerning


Socialists are delinquents and genocides. Go read every post I've shared here, thorough our Country and others about it.
WWII and *URSS*, and as I see now WWIII caused by the same group. *(China + Russia)*


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> Socialists are delinquents and genocides


Actually, these are your Nazi pals. I see you're one of those revisionists, thinking you can change history to suit your needs.

I've seen enough of your posts to be horrified for two lifetimes, the amount of lies and bile you spout is concerning.





Coto said:


> WWII and *URSS*, and as I see now WWIII caused by the same group. *(China + Russia)*



Well, you're wrong but not surprises there. Also, Russia is a full blown Nazi right-wing state. It's almost as socialist as I am the Queen of England. So unless you can produce my Crown...


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

FWIW i'm quoting @Foxi4 on this one because that's what Socialism enabled in Chile. (twice, first in 1970 (1) 1970 (2) and now in 2019)


Foxi4 said:


> We’ve had this conversation a million times - the principles espoused by communists have a natural consequence of establishing an authoritarian government because they can only be put into practice through use of force, force which is never relinquished afterwards - that’s the part modern communists don’t understand, and cannot understand. They find the proposed end point to be attractive, so much so that they fail to notice that the proposed path doesn’t lead to said end point, it invariably leads to an authoritarian nightmare. People on opposite ends of the aisle will always have this argument we’re having right now, until the end of time - communism sympathisers will always say that it was never truly tried and communist opponents will always say that it’s a system that failed every single time it attempted. Revolutions create power vacuums, and nature hates a vacuum - that empty space is always, invariably, filled in with the group that just did all of the revolting, and they’re never going to relinquish the power they seized because the supply of people not adequately adherent to the cause is never-ending when the goal posts can be moved as hoc. There is no step three after seizing the power from the state, but people infatuated with the idea of communism will never come to terms with that. If you’re under the impression that Putin was ever splitting a grain of rice to feed his family, you’re living in an alternate reality that’s not worth delving into.


And i'd say in the 70s we got lucky because instead of becoming full socialists, USA + Chile's Armed Forces helped to be free from Communism (1973-2019)


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> FWIW i'm quoting @Foxi4 on this one because that's what Socialism enabled in Chile. (twice, first in 1970 and now in 2019)



First of all, socialism and communism are two different things. As any dictionary or history book can tell you. 

Secondly, Putin's Russia is as communist as China, so a big whooping 0% since both countries have become incarnations of the worst right-wing disaster capitalism.

Thirdly, it would be really nice if you stopped attempting to score political points for your (indefensible) political revisionism trampling the (still) warm bodies of Ukrainians. It's both tasteless and offensive to the intelligence of everyone involved.

Literally no one thought that Putin was feeding anyone, quite the opposite in fact. The same Putin who is a champion to the right-wing in fact, but to no socialist ever. Can't speak for communists as there are pretty much none where I am.


----------



## chrisrlink (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> Mariupol seized by the URSS 2.0
> 
> Still no-fly zone declared. Ah yes, Socialists don't like declaring war, they'd rather give a piece of land and be peaceful as long as China pays.


you really want total nuclear annihilation huh?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 21, 2022)

Aisha is married to Hussein. It was an arranged marriage. They do not love each other. But her family would never support divorce. It is societal suicide in this community. Aisha knows this but ideas of feminism inspire her. She constantly opposes her husband at dinner partys, hoping to provoke physical involvement from her family members. Her female family members keep cheering her on: "Slava Feminismi!" 
She opposed her husband again earlier this evening. The husband is beating her up and Aisha left the web camera turned on, hoping to change her family tradition of strict no divorce traditions. Some family members still cheer her on: "Slava Feminismi!"


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Aisha is married to Hussein. It was an arranged marriage. They do not love each other. But her family would never support divorce. It is societal suicide in this community. Aisha knows this but ideas of feminism inspire her. She constantly opposes her husband at dinner partys, hoping to provoke physical involvement from her family members. Her female family members keep cheering her on: "Slava Feminismi!"
> She opposed her husband again earlier this evening. The husband is beating her up and Aisha left the web camera turned on, hoping to change her family tradition of strict no divorce traditions. Some family members still cheer her on: "Slava Feminismi!"



How is this related to Ukraine?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> How is this related to Ukraine?


NATO troops in Ukraine is a red line for Russia. It is suicide for the West and therefore out of the question. All Western countries know this. Yet, the west keeps encouraging Ukraine to fight Russia. It is sinister. If you care for the well-being of Ukraine, you tell it to accept reality and make the best out of the situation. The end result will be identical: a non-alligned Ukraine. But thousands of lives could have been spared, millions of people could have continued their normal lives. These facts reveal that Western countries have different goals than the well-being of Ukrainians.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> NATO troops in Ukraine is a red line for Russia. It is suicide for the West and therefore out of the question. All Western countries know this. Yet, the west keeps encouraging Ukraine to fight Russia. It is sinister. If you care for the well-being of Ukraine, you tell it to accept reality and make the best out of the situation. The end result will be identical: a non-alligned Ukraine. But thousands of lives could have been spared, millions of people could have continued their normal lives. These facts reveal that Western countries have different goals than the well-being of Ukrainians.


EVEN IF RUSSIA IS SCARED OF NATO... 
..... is Russia Attacking A Sovereign Ukriane is ok....???
Ukraine is a sovereign nation not NATO 

aww the Classic STOP Hitting yourself





(mind you NATO has yet to bomb any Ukriane schools, Hospitals, Theaters, Residential area.)


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 21, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Speaking of "rent free".


I'm turning into Jocko Willinck reading this thread

"Russians bombing hospitals and soyboys paying more for gas?"

"GOOD"


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> I'm turning into Jocko Willinck reading this thread
> 
> "Russians bombing hospitals and soyboys paying more for gas?"
> 
> "GOOD"


Cool Story... "non-Burner" New Account.


----------



## idontgetit (Mar 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Cool Story... "non-Burner" New Account.





djpannda said:


> EVEN IF RUSSIA IS SCARED OF NATO...
> ..... is Russia Attacking A Sovereign Ukriane is ok....???
> Ukraine is a sovereign nation not NATO
> 
> ...


GOOD.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

idontgetit said:


> GOOD.


....Wait ....didn't  the Kremlin not teach you how to attach a image properly, in Troll Training?  ..


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> you really want total nuclear annihilation huh?


Defending your land from being invaded is much more important than be afraid of the enemies artillery. You represent the typical USA citizen from today very well.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> NATO troops in Ukraine is a red line for Russia. It is suicide for the West and therefore out of the question. All Western countries know this. Yet, the west keeps encouraging Ukraine to fight Russia. It is sinister. If you care for the well-being of Ukraine, you tell it to accept reality and make the best out of the situation. The end result will be identical: a non-alligned Ukraine. But thousands of lives could have been spared, millions of people could have continued their normal lives. These facts reveal that Western countries have different goals than the well-being of Ukrainians.



Who exactly do you think you are to tell Ukrainians to surrender to the Mad Tsar?

And even assuming that what you say is true, that was a rant about some Muslim people. Which has nothing to do with Ukraine.



Coto said:


> Defending your land from being invaded is much more important than be afraid of the enemies artillery. You represent the typical USA citizen from today very well.



Yes, except that heavy enough artillery can vaporise you. Such things have to approaches with brain AND brawn, not just foolish bravado. It almost sounds like you're up for Ukrainians getting killed.

It's so easy for you to demand sacrifice and courage of others. I'm sure that if your butt were on the line, you'd have already committed treason 3 times, like St Peter - except that you'd not repent.


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Yes, except that heavy enough artillery can vaporise you. Such things have to approaches with brain AND brawn, not just foolish bravado. It almost sounds like you're up for Ukrainians getting killed.
> 
> It's so easy for you to demand sacrifice and courage of others. I'm sure that if your butt were on the line, you'd have already committed treason 3 times, like St Peter - except that you'd not repent.


But that's not something you can decide anyway. Deal with it, or like I told somebody else, go chain yourself at United Nations and cry over it until you're nuked, or arrested, or whatever. That's all you do anyway.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> But that's not something you can decide anyway. Deal with it, or like I told somebody else, go chain yourself at United Nations and cry over it until you're nuked, or arrested, or whatever. That's all you do anyway.



It's actually something you can decide. Who survives can fight another day.


----------



## westward (Mar 21, 2022)

In general, it isn't wise to corner a country w/ a nuclear trinity (Air, Sea, Land launch systems).  M.A.D. - Mutual Assured Destruction. Russian people are human beings, as are Ukrainians - I am not in favor of war in general, but this situation has been brewing for over 7 years now.

There is a documentary made by a very brave French woman named Anne-Laure Bonnel.  It gives some very valuable context to how we arrived here - nothing is black and white -  that many are not hearing from Western media.

The full video can be watched here. It is a right-wing site, but it came up first in my search results w/ the full documentary playable. We/I can disagree w/ the sites narrative, but that is not relative to the content of the documentary. It's one hour long, I recommend everyone give it a watch.

https://www.riotimesonline.com/braz...7W7JvldZ7XrGfjX8e6rw-1647887255-0-gaNycGzNCmU

Respectfully,
westward

WARNING; VIDEO IS GRAPHIC - VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

ouch.. I gues Ukraine number are not off  might be undercounted … guess that’s why Russia is desperate to buy soldiers..


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## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ouch.. I gues Ukraine number are not off  might be undercounted … guess that’s why Russia is desperate to buy soldiers..




I'm in amazement they'd even bother displaying it


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 21, 2022)

smf said:


> I get it, it's easier to label them an extreme right wing murder squad. Maybe it's just more convenient than making any relevant points.


It's a well accepted label. I'm really not getting why you are persisting with this have you temporarily switched sides to the right to allow this cognitive dissonance?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I'm in amazement they'd even bother displaying it


Im guess there's internal fighting in the Kremlin, as at this point EVERYTHING published in Russia is state sponsored ( they are not risking 15 year in the Prison for  publishing non Kremlin approved military info).. so Yea Might be the Russian Military Being Defiant to Putin


----------



## djpannda (Mar 21, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ouch.. I gues Ukraine number are not off  might be undercounted … guess that’s why Russia is desperate to buy soldiers..



30,000 Russian Soldiers killed and injured  in 1 month......
Remember when Rep. tried to shame Biden for 13 lost Soldiers while protecting Civilians leaving Afghanistan
Imagne 30,000 Troops while massacring Civilians  lol


----------



## smf (Mar 21, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> It's a well accepted label. I'm really not getting why you are persisting with this have you temporarily switched sides to the right to allow this cognitive dissonance?


I don't have a side. Maybe that is what is confusing to you.

Your link "label" doesn't mention your label of "extreme right wing murder squad", are you feeling ok??


----------



## johnMactavish (Mar 21, 2022)

Guys, I'm from Ukraine. It's just awful what's going on... Every day a bunch of air raid sirens, constant bombing and constant deaths of ordinary people. It's just too horrible to be true. I don't understand how this can happen in the 21st century.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

johnMactavish said:


> Guys, I'm from Ukraine. It's just awful what's going on... Every day a bunch of air raid sirens, constant bombing and constant deaths of ordinary people. It's just too horrible to be true. I don't understand how this can happen in the 21st century.



The insanity, greed and malice of one man who has been in power for far too long.


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## johnMactavish (Mar 21, 2022)

Fsquirrel said:


> I know what you mean...What city are you from?


Sorry, buddy, for security reasons I can't say( I'll just say that it's not that far from the war zone. Sometimes I can hear the shots so clearly, as if they were behind a wall. It's very scary, you wouldn't wish that on anyone.


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

johnMactavish said:


> Guys, I'm from Ukraine. It's just awful what's going on... Every day a bunch of air raid sirens, constant bombing and constant deaths of ordinary people. It's just too horrible to be true. I don't understand how this can happen in the 21st century.


It had to happen, since there's a whole Anti West agenda running, your country was set as target. Get those Soviets! We'll eventually do too


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## johnMactavish (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> It had to happen, since there's a whole Anti West agenda running, your country was set as target. Get those Soviets! We'll eventually do too


You're right, but the main problem is that civilians suffer the most. That's why we need help from the west now. I understand that Western leaders prioritize their citizens and it`s rightly so, but they are so reluctant to get involved that if Ukraine falls, they won't even notice how close they got. But no matter what, Ukrainians are a strong and strong-willed nation, we will survive! Peace to all!


----------



## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

johnMactavish said:


> You're right, but the main problem is that civilians suffer the most. That's why we need help from the west now. I understand that Western leaders prioritize their citizens and it`s rightly so, but they are so reluctant to get involved that if Ukraine falls, they won't even notice how close they got. But no matter what, Ukrainians are a strong and strong-willed nation, we will survive! Peace to all!


Yes, you're right. Please resist while the West manages to get its shit together.


----------



## Lucaserf (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> Defending your land from being invaded is much more important than be afraid of the enemies artillery. You represent the typical USA citizen from today very well.


there won't be any fucking land to defend after the radioactive boys come down faster than you can say "Fuck Russia"


johnMactavish said:


> You're right, but the main problem is that civilians suffer the most. That's why we need help from the west now. I understand that Western leaders prioritize their citizens and it`s rightly so, but they are so reluctant to get involved that if Ukraine falls, they won't even notice how close they got. But no matter what, Ukrainians are a strong and strong-willed nation, we will survive! Peace to all!


IF the west gets involved there will be more deaths and possible nuclear retaliation. People have been saying this for ages in this thread, can you read?


----------



## johnMactavish (Mar 21, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> there won't be any fucking land to defend after the radioactive boys come down faster than you can say "Fuck Russia"
> 
> IF the west gets involved there will be more deaths and possible nuclear retaliation. People have been saying this for ages in this thread, can you read?


First of all, I hope that people are reasonable and will not allow a nuclear war. Secondly, I have expressed my thought, even if it coincides with the thoughts of other people, I think there is nothing wrong with it.


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## Coto (Mar 21, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> there won't be any fucking land to defend after the radioactive boys come down faster than you can say "Fuck Russia"
> 
> IF the west gets involved there will be more deaths and possible nuclear retaliation. People have been saying this for ages in this thread, can you read?


We'll manage. Did you have any success chaining yourself at the front of United Nations and screaming for world peace yet?


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## Lucaserf (Mar 21, 2022)

Coto said:


> We'll manage.


Easy to say at the confort of your home. 


Coto said:


> Did you have any success chaining yourself at the front of United Nations and screaming for world peace yet?


Better than trying to start a nuclear conflict between two military superpowers.


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## Dark_Ansem (Mar 21, 2022)

Lucaserf said:


> Easy to say at the confort of your home.
> 
> Better than trying to start a nuclear conflict between two military superpowers.



Some people are so quick to volunteer others to their deaths.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Who exactly do you think you are to tell Ukrainians to surrender to the Mad Tsar?


In my metaphor, I am the loving family member who tells Aisha not to oppose her husband publicly. In my metaphor, divorce is not an option (as is nuclear war in the Ukraine situation), so she has to live with him somehow. Unless he dies (Russia is not going anywhere in our reality).

You (plural) on the other hand, are cheering her on to defend some higher priniciples, while not actually helping her when she gets beaten up at home.

evidence no. 1
"30,000 Russian Soldiers killed and injured  in 1 month......
Remember when Rep. tried to shame Biden for 13 lost Soldiers while protecting Civilians leaving AfghanistanImagne 30,000 Troops while massacring Civilians lol"
= "Aisha just hit him in the face! You go girl! Girl power!" (While Aisha is being beaten, as seen through the webam)

evidence no. 2
"It had to happen, since there's a whole Anti West agenda running, your country was set as target. Get those Soviets! We'll eventually do too"
= "Aisha, Hussein is evil. He will beat you no matter what you do. Go slap him in the face! We will eventuall do, too" (While actually categorically denying any physical involvement)

I rest my case, your honor.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In my metaphor, I am the loving family member who tells Aisha not to oppose her husband publicly. In my metaphor, divorce is not an option (as is nuclear war in the Ukraine situation), so she has to live with him somehow. Unless he dies (Russia is not going anywhere in our reality).



there are holes in your metaphor, divorce is not allowed only in 2 countries  in the world, The Vatican and in The Philippines, but I know for a fact there are ways to get around this in the Philippines. so divorce is an option, this is what is going on now, the thug husband (Russia) is beating his partner (the Ukraine) up in public and telling his family (the Russian Zombie public)  lies that  they are doing great, which they believe for now.

one day Aisha, can no longer take any more of this abuse, and stabs or shoots Hussein in self defence and kills him. The police arrest her, discover  the facts and how she was abused, his family is shocked at what he was really like and the lies he told them, the case is thrown out of court and Aisha is FREE.

no one wants to join Russia,  the Warsaw pact, the Baltic states, they've all tasted freedom  from the KGB b/s, as soon as most of them could they joined the EU and Nato, Russia is in a club where its the only member now, and no one else wants to join.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 22, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> there are holes in your metaphor, divorce is not allowed only in 2 countries  in the world, The Vatican and in The Philippines, but I know for a fact there are ways to get around this in the Philippines. so divorce is an option,


My metaphor is fictional. I can make up any reason for why Aisha cannot leave Hussein. The fact is, Ukraine cannot leave the Russian sphere of influence unless there is no more Russia. Good luck. The West is trying hard to achieve this (and is therefore continuing the proud traditions of the Nazis who saw Russians as inferior human beings). But I wouldn´t count on it: 6000 nuclear warheads.



JoeBloggs777 said:


> one day Aisha, can no longer take any more of this abuse, and stabs or shoots Hussein in self defence and kills him. The police arrest her, discover  the facts and how she was abused, his family is shocked at what he was really like and the lies he told them, the case is thrown out of court and Aisha is FREE.
> 
> no one wants to join Russia,  the Warsaw pact, the Baltic states, they've all tasted freedom  from the KGB b/s, as soon as most of them could they joined the EU and Nato, Russia is in a club where its the only member now, and no one else wants to join.


Well, if it is true that Russia has lost 30k troops, Aisha is winning. We will see. As long as it is borderland Russians fighting mainland Russians, all is fine and dandy. Once the Russian threat seizes, Ukraine will just be another eastern problem for the EU. Or do you think the Ukrainians are eager to install special bathrooms and statues of St. Floyd?


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> My metaphor is fictional. I can make up any reason for why Aisha cannot leave Hussein.



exactly, Like most of  the news coming out of Russia - Fiction

of course the Ukraine can be free of Russia as all the other ex-Warsaw pact and Baltic states countries are free now.,  The thug Putin, who knows how long he has left either as your President or alive on this earth.

 where are  All these Ukrainian people welcoming the Russians who came to free them ?

is this what Putin dreamed it would be like ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60827106

Nazi's ,seriously out of a population of what 40M, how many are Nazi supporters in the Ukraine?,  you think your Russian gov is any better ? ,  you've no idea, my parents lived under Russian rule, then the Nazis came and then the Russians again, but that will never happen again while their country is  in Nato and FREE

Crimea, is lost for now, give  Putin a minimum part of Donbas and Luhansk, let them have their little Russian republic, Ukraine should then build a border all along these regions, securing Ukraine. next join the EU, I'm sure with conflict in the Ukraine now gone they shouldn't have a problem, and further down the line join Nato.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 22, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> where are  All these Ukrainian people welcoming the Russians who came to free them ?


In the Donbass.


JoeBloggs777 said:


> Nazi's ,seriously out of a population of what 40M, how many are Nazi supporters in the Ukraine?,  you think your Russian gov is any better ? ,  you've no idea, my parents lived under Russian rule, then the Nazis came and then the Russians again, but that will never happen again while their country is  in Nato and FREE


I´ve got a better idea than you think. My parents and I lived under Russian rule. It is not my government.


JoeBloggs777 said:


> Crimea, is lost for now, give  Putin a minimum part of Donbas and Luhansk, let them have their little Russian republic, Ukraine should then build a border all along these regions, securing Ukraine. next join the EU, I'm sure with conflict in the Ukraine now gone they shouldn't have a problem, and further down the line join Nato.


You could have had that (minus NATO) without a war. Now Ukraine will have this offer (or worse) after thousands of deaths, millions of lives ruined and cities in ruin. Well done.


----------



## Dr0zD (Mar 22, 2022)




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## Dark_Ansem (Mar 22, 2022)

Dr0zD said:


>




Pure trash from the genocidal Kremlin propaganda. 



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I rest my case, your honor.



Dismissed with prejudice. Pay up and go to jail. Also amazing how you choose the somehow most racist way to depict your "fictional example", which sounds more like anti-muslim propaganda.


----------



## Viri (Mar 22, 2022)

Hindsight is funny. I wonder if they're still laughing.



Spoiler


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## Taleweaver (Mar 22, 2022)

Coto said:


> Mariupol seized by the URSS 2.0
> 
> Still no-fly zone declared. Ah yes, Socialists don't like declaring war, they'd rather give a piece of land and be peaceful as long as China pays.


Dude... In case you don't follow this forum section : I'm a socialist and I lobbied for a no fly zone, well aware of increases the chances of all of war.

What's your track record aside blaming groups you don't like for something they can't control?

(because apparently news for you : Bernie Sanders isn't secretly leading NATO... Supposed he's against it to begin with)


----------



## Coto (Mar 22, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Dude... In case you don't follow this forum section : I'm a socialist and I lobbied for a no fly zone, well aware of increases the chances of all of war.
> 
> What's your track record aside blaming groups you don't like for something they can't control?
> 
> (because apparently news for you : Bernie Sanders isn't secretly leading NATO... Supposed he's against it to begin with)


Chilean history and URSS (Not to mention how Socialist parties from Chile, even Communist parties, have swindled, for instance, Communist ex-Chilean president Michelle Bachelet, now UN representative, designated Paula Narváez, another Socialist as UN's Chilean Ambassador), as United Nations being backed up by China.

Same as Poland, now Ukraine. You're free to read every one of my posts in regards to how they act and what means currently for China and Russia to "de-nazify" opposing countries. Then you get to gather all the pieces together, and you get the whole picture. It's that easy.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 22, 2022)

.


Dr0zD said:


> .


WELCOME "non-Burner" Account, that has not been active for 9 year and just randomly posted in the Political section!


----------



## djpannda (Mar 22, 2022)

So Thank you Kremlin Those Nazi Horses deserved it


----------



## chrisrlink (Mar 22, 2022)

djpannda said:


> So Thank you Kremlin Those Nazi Horses deserved it



good thing PETA doesn't have the nuclear codes


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## djpannda (Mar 22, 2022)

I guess President Biden little talk with Xi hit home 
Putin must be worried..because win or lose Russia is going to be completely dependent on China


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## BitMasterPlus (Mar 23, 2022)

So if Russia fully takes control of Ukraine, would that still be Russian disinformation and propaganda? Would Ukraine, the shining beacon of our world, still have a chance for freedom?


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> So if Russia fully takes control of Ukraine, would that still be Russian disinformation and propaganda? Would Ukraine, the shining beacon of our world, still have a chance for freedom?


Yes, they already overthrew a Russian puppet government once before.  If Putin wants to gain _anything_ from all the dead Russian troops, he has to sit at the negotiating table. Otherwise he'll end up with nothing but a collapsed economy and the entire world pissed at him.


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## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> These



Lol Kremlin getting desperate hiring D-level troll …


----------



## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> So if Russia fully takes control of Ukraine, would that still be Russian disinformation and propaganda? Would Ukraine, the shining beacon of our world, still have a chance for freedom?



Russia will never take “full” control of Ukraine.. it’s been 1 month and over 30,000 Russian casualties…
Russian taking over Kyiv will not stop the fighting will only create guerrilla warfare (red dawn style) that will never end
It has already weaken the Russian army more then 40 years of war… plus the appearance standing of The Red army has been destroyed in the eyes of Russian enemy ( and so called friends)


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## pustal (Mar 23, 2022)

For those interested in following an expert in the subject:



Also another great resource: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates


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## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

I guess Syrians don’t want to die for “Rubbles” …

It’s really starting to look like Kremlins is going to push for a Daft for soldiers if it wants to continue. 
Russia has never been weaker


----------



## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

Ukrainian President Asked Biden Not to Sanction Abramovich, to Facilitate Peace TalksRussian oligarch, facing sanctions, is trying to be go-between with Russian President Vladimir Putin ​This is an interesting story. So Basically Ukraine is asking for this Oligarch not be sanctions. why?
 In a moment when Ukriane is asking the world to Cut off money and help to Russian sounding anythings. They are Hinting that This guy will 
A) Be the out Putin needs to stop the War. 
B) Hint That he will be the start of the Kremlin Coup.
Either way the it diffidently sounds like Ukrainians knows Alot more  bout the Kremlin internally.. Sounds like they got a couple of Spies !


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Also amazing how you choose the somehow most racist way to depict your "fictional example", which sounds more like anti-muslim propaganda.


I admire the more traditional values of Muslim communities. Swap out Aisha and Hussein for the Catholic Mary and John. 
The only racism present in this thread is Russophobia.


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## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> ur


*Instead of relying on post of random photoshopped Kremlin Propaganda.. by "non-Burning Kremlin" accounts .. look for actually news.. *​*not info from someone who has to "carefully" avoid key words like "war" to keep his job ( and the fact he can Translate , uses "You" as a reference to the West in stead of "WE" usually signals that the Kremlin is really bad at promoting **propaganda** )*
...​BREAKING NEWS Putin's forces officially committing war crimes against civilians in Ukraine​


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## subcon959 (Mar 23, 2022)

Can anyone who understands the language give some context to what is going on here?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Can anyone who understands the language give some context to what is going on here?



volunteer militia detaining Looters and saboteurs ( more looters as REAL saboteurs are held as POWS)


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## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

Funny Russian Oligarchs are being sanction everywhere..


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## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

ffe3301 said:


> Connections everywhere.


Cool random Photoshop Kremlin photoshop Consipircy propaganda (from a User that has never posted or even looks at any threads outside this single one
I really hope @mods would not allow access to Word New Thread for Brand New members Trolls .


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## subcon959 (Mar 23, 2022)

djpannda said:


> volunteer militia detaining Looters and saboteurs ( more looters as REAL saboteurs are held as POWS)


Damn, remind me to never loot in Ukraine.


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## djpannda (Mar 23, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Damn, remind me to never loot in Ukraine.


well to be fair, what your seeing depending on where exactly this is happening and when.. you have to remember Ukraine is in War with a Country 20x its size .
as if this happened in a city that is Currectly under direct Russian attack local Militia are patrolling the streets and tied him up for local police. as Militia will not arrest civilians and are not local peacekeepers.
Under Martial law, looters are lucky not to be shot at,  and tieing looters while waiting for police is a great deterrence for other petty crimes.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 23, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Yes, they already overthrew a Russian puppet government once before.


A puppet government that stole Russian gas for years and flirted with the EU regarding a single market, prompting Russia to give them even more favorable deals. A real puppet government.
You are either uninformed or lying.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 23, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Damn, remind me to never loot in Ukraine.



I see the Twitter poster is probably a Manc, he must have seen stag dos end like this, all that's missing is the blow up doll


----------



## Xzi (Mar 24, 2022)

After all this time and effort, the Russian invasion is only moving backwards: U.S. says Ukraine has pushed back Russian forces outside Kyiv

Their losses are also quickly reaching record levels: Russian losses in Ukraine exceed Soviet losses in Afghanistan

And all Putin's boomer nostalgia tantrum has managed to achieve is to push more countries into the arms of NATO: Finland makes massive shift towards NATO, majority now support joining

Somebody give this dictator the geopolitical Darwin award already.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 24, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I admire the more traditional values of Muslim communities


So what, exactly?


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Swap out Aisha and Hussein for the Catholic Mary and John.


Abusing your spouse is explicitly forbidden by Catholicism.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I admire the more traditional values of Muslim communities. Swap out Aisha and Hussein for the Catholic Mary and John.
> The only racism present in this thread is Russophobia.


Nonsense, Putin stooge. Putin doesn't represent all Russia, and you're a liar if you claim otherwise.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> So what, exactly?


In most things (except cousin marriage). The comma seems to be in the wrong place btw.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Abusing your spouse is explicitly forbidden by Catholicism.


So it doesn´t happen? I`m not gonna go into religious doctrine. That was not the point. The point is that Aisha/Mary chose to escalate in my story. Ukraine is provoking Russia, trying to get Western countries into a conflict with Russia. The US encouraged them. There was a short moment in which the Ukrainian government was actually afraid of war but the barking continued soon after.


Dark_Ansem said:


> Nonsense, Putin stooge. Putin doesn't represent all Russia, and you're a liar if you claim otherwise.


That wasn´t my claim. Putin may be very popular (though the "special operation" is certainly unpopular, especially in its scope) but I was talking about racism. It is rooted in Russian identity and history as a Eurasian nation. Part of Russians resent their Asian ties. Kind of how some mixed-raced people in the US resent part of their heritage. The Ukrainians are perhaps the least Asian Russians. The Neo Nazis in Russia and Ukraine share this sentiment. In Russia, they are kept at bay by the government, in Ukraine their were given free reign. I´ve said it before: The post-coup prime minister (who was chosen by Victoria Nuland to be fit for office in the leaked phone conversation) of Ukraine called Russians sub-humans in 2014 on a governmnt website.  A user (which I have put on the ignore list) has used the same term (he said "underhumans") in this very thread without receiving a warning. I have a feeling we couldn´t call other nations subhumans. In light of the Russian attack, facebook has officially allowed special rules to the detriment of Russians and Russians only. Therefore it is a continuation of a modern European feeling of racial superiority.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 24, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Therefore it is a continuation of a modern European feeling of racial superiority.


No it's not. It's the understandable anger and frustration of a ukrainian against a population which is either apathetic or complicit to a genocide.

Ridiculous claims of "modern european feelings of racial superiority".


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 24, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> It's the understandable anger and frustration of a ukrainian against a population which is either apathetic or complicit to a genocide.


Hang on a minute, it's one thing if you disagree that it exists but if you agree then you can't justify racism like that.

Also, it's very clear that a whole lot of Russian people are completely against Putin's actions and it's rather unfair to call them either complicit or apathetic.

Edit: Just to add, whoever originally brought up racism clearly doesn't know the difference between ethnicity and race.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 24, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Edit: Just to add, whoever originally brought up racism clearly doesn't know the difference between ethnicity and race.


Oh oh, don´t be a Whoopie Goldberg. She was publicly admonished (and temporarily sent on "vacation") for saying on TV that the holocaust was not about racism because it was whites killing whites. We don´t use the word "ethnicitism". The difference lies in the zoom level: you, your family, your extended family, your ethnicity, your race, your species (then I guess mammals, vertebrates, DNA life forms).

Sometimes ethnicity is used interchangably with either nation or race. Race does not have a defined number. You could be very broad (e.g. 3 races) or very specific, basically meaning ethnicity.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 24, 2022)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...omen-refugees-they-are-men-must-go-back-fight

https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/

I'm confused here. Do we boycott Ukraine since they deny trans people's rights and tell them they are men and must fight, as well as having a neo nazi battalion in their army, or do we now support this because Russians are clearly the bigger evil in this situation? What's do we do man's!? I must know who to stand up for in my basement!


----------



## djpannda (Mar 24, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...omen-refugees-they-are-men-must-go-back-fight
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/
> 
> I'm confused here. Do we boycott Ukraine since they deny trans people's rights and tell them they are men and must fight, as well as having a neo nazi battalion in their army, or do we now support this because Russians are clearly the bigger evil in this situation? What's do we do man's!? I must know who to stand up for in my basement!



1.Depends on what is stated on their legal documents…. Unfortunately 

2.
 funny Nazis never seem to bother you before…but it’s weird a lot of those Ukrainian “Nazi “ Facebook pages stoped updating around the same time Kremlin banned Facebook… WEIRD . But im Sure they have nothing to do with each other


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 24, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I'm confused here. Do we boycott Ukraine since they deny trans people's rights and tell them they are men and must fight, as well as having a neo nazi battalion in their army, or do we now support this because Russians are clearly the bigger evil in this situation? What's do we do man's!? I must know who to stand up for in my basement!


I know you seem to have difficulty with putting ideas together properly, but you can quite simply condemn both.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 24, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> I know you seem to have difficulty with putting ideas together properly, but you can quite simply condemn both.


I know, and I have been, but I've still seen people defend Ukraine as if there's no evil in that country either. In my eyes, both Ukraine and Russia, yes that means Putin, are corrupt.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 24, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> I know you seem to have difficulty with putting ideas together properly, but you can quite simply condemn both.


I don't see a lot of people condemning both. I do see a lot more people ignoring their existence so they don't have to deal with it.


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 24, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Oh oh, don´t be a Whoopie Goldberg. She was publicly admonished (and temporarily sent on "vacation") for saying on TV that the holocaust was not about racism because it was whites killing whites. We don´t use the word "ethnicitism". The difference lies in the zoom level: you, your family, your extended family, your ethnicity, your race, your species (then I guess mammals, vertebrates, DNA life forms).
> 
> Sometimes ethnicity is used interchangably with either nation or race. Race does not have a defined number. You could be very broad (e.g. 3 races) or very specific, basically meaning ethnicity.


I'm not aware of whatever happened with Whoopi Goldberg but I think xenophobia and racism do tend to get conflated. I've only ever heard the holocaust referred to as anti-semitic not racist.

Let me ask you this though, can you think of anything that a black person could call a white person that would come even close to the white person calling the black person the n-word, even though it would technically still be called racism?


----------



## djpannda (Mar 24, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I don't see a lot of people condemning both. I do see a lot more people ignoring their existence so they don't have to deal with it.


yea I understand but your talking about made up excuse to Justify the WAR as AZOV has less then NAZI 900 member in 2014.. After Russia attacked in 2014 the membership GREW multiple times by normal Ukrianains not because they were NAZI but 
because it was the local Militia that was fighting Russia...

Both Russian (RNU was 100,000 members at one point) 
and the US ( with KKK and Ayrian brotherhood alone as 20,000 member) 
has  way more "NAZIs" 
Thats like claiming   Mexican needs to take over the USA because the US miliarty has 1,000 Neo nazi in it (true story) 
The U.S. Military Has a White Supremacy Problem


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 24, 2022)

djpannda said:


> yea I understand but your talking about made up excuse to Justify the WAR as AZOV has less then NAZI 900 member in 2014.. After Russia attacked in 2014 the membership GREW multiple times by normal Ukrianains not because they were NAZI but
> because it was the local Militia that was fighting Russia...
> 
> Both Russian (RNU was 100,000 members at one point)
> ...


I'm not talking about the people trying to use it to justify the war, that's obviously ridiculous. I'm just talking about the average person that won't even acknowledge it because they are worried that it might muddy the water.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 24, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I'm not talking about the people trying to use it to justify the war, that's obviously ridiculous. I'm just talking about the average person that won't even acknowledge it because they are worried that it might muddy the water.


Yes its the sucky situation but thats the exactly reason Russia and (Kremlin paid bots) want to push as the notion.. , people claim this is a unjust War ,  the Far Right and Kremlins  scream "if your against Russia, then YOUR FOR NAZI" 
but we need to just see actually NUMBERS to make sense of it as 900 "nazi" in a sovereign NATION of 42 million is a better ratio then the USA or RUSSIA ( HECK MOST EU countries)


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 24, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Yes its the sucky situation but thats the exactly reason Russia and (Kremlin paid bots) want to push as the notion.. , people claim this is a unjust War ,  the Far Right and Kremlins  scream "if your against Russia, then YOUR FOR NAZI"
> but we need to just see actually NUMBERS to make sense of it as 900 "nazi" in a sovereign NATION of 42 million is a better ratio then the USA or RUSSIA ( HECK MOST EU countries)


Tell me about it, I wouldn't be surprised if where I live there are more than the whole of Ukraine.


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 24, 2022)

Not even the most humane nation is perfect. I'm sure most people that are focused on Russia, don't feel the need to list the wrongdoings of every nation. Better than the whataboutism trying to justify or minimize this invasion.


----------



## selever (Mar 24, 2022)

MMX said:


> I think in this specific case we should only send people to war who want war, which is from looking at twitter, only leftists with dyed hair


nah not even us left leaning ppl with dyed hair want war. i just want all this shit to stop, nobody wants war except from putin himself.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 24, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I'm not aware of whatever happened with Whoopi Goldberg but I think xenophobia and racism do tend to get conflated. I've only ever heard the holocaust referred to as anti-semitic not racist.


Then you should be glad I warned you about Goldberg. It created quite the storm.


subcon959 said:


> Let me ask you this though, can you think of anything that a black person could call a white person that would come even close to the white person calling the black person the n-word, even though it would technically still be called racism?


I can: racist. Let me use logic here: If the word "n****" is so hurtful, then why is e.g. rap music relying on it constantly? African-Americans calling each other "n****" creates no harm between them apparently, but the opposite is true when European-Americans call it other "racist".

EDIT: Funny how n**** gets censored, a word derived from the word "black", s. the country Niger or Nigeria, but users can call Russians subhumans. Proves my earlier point though.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> 1.Depends on what is stated on their legal documents…. Unfortunately
> 
> 2.View attachment 303180 funny Nazis never seem to bother you before…but it’s weird a lot of those Ukrainian “Nazi “ Facebook pages stoped updating around the same time Kremlin banned Facebook… WEIRD . But im Sure they have nothing to do with each other


1. Legal documents don't matter on what you feel, remember? I was led to believe if you don't respect people's feelings and call them by their personal pronouns, documents or not, you were the devil incarnate, ergo, what the Ukraine is doing to these people is wrong and dehumanizing by this logic.

2. We're not talking about America, but no, it doesn't have a white supremacist problem, unless you mean you and the left who like to put in plants to make us seem like Nazi's, but never works since they always get exposed. I've always hated Nazi's, and it's not my side who's associated with them. And don't you think those Ukrainian Nazi pages stop updating because Ukraine is trying to garner support from the rest of the world and that would make them look bad? Nah, more Russian disinformation obviously. It's not like to worry that maybe other nazi's could be in other batallions in Ukraine's army, it's just that one imaginary unit that's completely made up even though they were active for years. Never believe your lying eyes folks.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 25, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> 1. Legal documents don't matter on what you feel, remember? I was led to believe if you don't respect people's feelings and call them by their personal pronouns, documents or not, you were the devil incarnate, ergo, what the Ukraine is doing to these people is wrong and dehumanizing by this logic.
> 
> 2. We're not talking about America, but no, it doesn't have a white supremacist problem, unless you mean you and the left who like to put in plants to make us seem like Nazi's, but never works since they always get exposed. I've always hated Nazi's, and it's not my side who's associated with them. And don't you think those Ukrainian Nazi pages stop updating because Ukraine is trying to garner support from the rest of the world and that would make them look bad? Nah, more Russian disinformation obviously. It's not like to worry that maybe other nazi's could be in other batallions in Ukraine's army, it's just that one imaginary unit that's completely made up even though they were active for years. Never believe your lying eyes folks.


Lol  someone mad and in denial


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Lol  someone mad and in denial


Wow, in just one response, you sure showed and debunked me. How will I ever recover from this earth shattering comeback? You're clearly not mad an in denial, I am. You cracked the code, good sir.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Lol  someone mad and in denial


Wow, in just one response, you sure showed and debunked me. You've completely dismantled my argument. How will I ever recover from this earth shattering comeback? You're clearly not mad an in denial, I am. You cracked the code, good sir. I was ignoring you because I was afraid my whole perspective on reality would be shattered to pieces like this, and it happened. You've broken me, good sir.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 25, 2022)

There are Nazis in America, but the establishment tries to inflate their influence and numbers. Jan 6 were Nazis, Trump was a Nazi, everyone is a Nazi. But actual Nazis in Ukraine... let´s look away, shall we? 

The guy in the photo with the swastika was probably a federal agent. If he isn´t: What´s his name? Was he charged? Reports about Charlottesville tended to always show the same Nazi flag guy. Let´s not forgot the amazing story of how American Nazis wanted to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer. It turns out most of the group was made up of federal agents, trying to encourage one member (the one who pled guildy) to act. Wasn´t it even two different federal agencies under-cover? XD
Of course the media reported about the intended kidnapping but was very quiet about the government involvement...


----------



## djpannda (Mar 25, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There are Nazis in America, but the establishment tries to inflate their influence and numbers. Jan 6 were Nazis, Trump was a Nazi, everyone is a Nazi. But actual Nazis in Ukraine... let´s look away, shall we?
> The guy in the photo with the swastika was probably a federal agent. If he isn´t: What´s his name? Was he charged? Reports about Charlottesville tended to always show the same Nazi flag guy. Let´s not forgot the amazing story of how American Nazis wanted to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer. It turns out most of the group was made up of federal agents, trying to encourage one member (the one who pled guildy) to act. Wasn´t it even two different federal agencies under-cover? XD
> Of course the media reported about the intended kidnapping but was very quiet about the government involvement...


@subcon959, see why the subject is being pushed by
“ certain actors “ they trying jedi sith mind tricks

 Ukriane questionable >900 Nazi are bad…
but Americans 20,000 registered Nazi with video/pictures and a rap sheet are fake /FBI plants …



also telling who  the American Nazis are root for and you realize what's up


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 25, 2022)

djpannda said:


> @subcon959, see why the subject is being pushed by
> “ certain actors “ they trying jedi sith mind tricks
> 
> Ukriane questionable >900 Nazi are bad…
> but Americans 20,000 registered Nazi with video/pictures and a rap sheet are fake /FBI plants …View attachment 303241


Ok Nazi


----------



## Viri (Mar 25, 2022)

I'm a Nazi.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 25, 2022)

Well back to Actually News
Russian officials may soon need to call up more conscripts and reservists to replace their heavy losses in Ukraine
With the news of 40,000 Russian troop out of commission, Syrian mercenaries not going, Russian military bring in large numbers of  minorities from the other side of Russia
 Several Russians are worried that they will be call for “draft”  leading to huge number of young  Russian men escaping… this is might be a deal breaker for the Russian public  as it would mean that the Kremlin would admit they fucked up and need soldiers… 
But damn 40,000… image America losing 40,000 in one month.. it would be the laughing stock of the world


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Mar 25, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I don't see a lot of people condemning both. I do see a lot more people ignoring their existence so they don't have to deal with it.


Well, and since you don't see something it clearly doesn't exist. Are you religious?


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Mar 25, 2022)

All this talk about Nazi's and shit I think you guys forget that Germany is still a thing and I am pretty sure they still have their camps up. Perhaps we should consider invading them too. /S


Invading a country as an excuse to go after a group is always a shitty excuse and never goes well no matter the excuse or circumstances. It certainly did not work for the US when we did the whole "War on Terror" a scenario that ended up being more of a long term fuck up of our military and resources and was a bigger failure all around than Vietnam was. Its not going to work or look good for any country doing this, and Russia is by no means any better in their actions here. Everyone sees its bullshit and they are only losing more the further they take this invasion into. 

Putin is in full Sunk Cost Fallacy right now. He will keep going until he has nothing left, not even the support of his people as they get sick and tired of his shit and decide to remove him by force.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 25, 2022)

Look more  Nazi that Putin was talking about …



… wait that Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin… 
Weird


----------



## Tarmfot (Mar 25, 2022)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics


Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[9]


----------



## subcon959 (Mar 25, 2022)

Tarmfot said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
> 
> 
> Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[9]


Imagine if the internet never happened and fascist brainwashing crap like that text was the basis of education for Russian kids.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Mar 25, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Imagine if the internet never happened and fascist brainwashing crap like that text was the basis of education for Russian kids.


I'm pretty sure the world would be better off in some ways if the internet never happened, but that's another topic entirely.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 25, 2022)

Without internet, some keyboard warriors would not travel to Ukraine to pose as volunteers, only to find out that they cannot leave.


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 27, 2022)

It's getting kinda edgy out there. Biden probably shouldn't have let that slip about 'Putin must be toppled.' Dangerous, could cause significant escalation. Here's a little PSA info, you know just in case ...







1


----------



## Xzi (Mar 27, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> It's getting kinda edgy out there. Biden probably shouldn't have let that slip about 'Putin must be toppled.' Dangerous, could cause significant escalation.


He didn't let anything slip, every sane person has been saying the same thing for weeks.  Putin also has no options left for escalation, shy of firing a nuke and leading us to mutually assured destruction.  Russia is running out of meat to throw at the grinder, let alone missiles and fuel/resources.  Soon it's gonna be impossible for Putin to save any face at all back home from this war-crime-filled dumpster fire he calls a "special operation."


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 27, 2022)

Borderlands tend to juggle between bordering nations if they are hostile towards one another. Ukraine was able to leverage support from both sides. Once Ukraine is part of the Western sphere, it can no longer do that. It will be interesting to see how "democratic" they become. After all, Eastern EU countries suffer from a lack of "democracy", as we have learned from the Western elites.


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> He didn't let anything slip, every sane person has been saying the same thing for weeks.  Putin also has no options left for escalation, shy of firing a nuke and leading us to mutually assured destruction.  Russia is running out of meat to throw at the grinder, let alone missiles and fuel/resources.  Soon it's gonna be impossible for Putin to save any face at all back home from this war-crime-filled dumpster fire he calls a "special operation."



I hope you're right with how things turn out. Putin was reportedly appalled with what happened to Qaddafi. He still has many tricks up his sleeve of the drastic, desperate sort.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 27, 2022)

If you have seen what happend to Gaddafi and you weren´t appalled, you are not a human being. Unless he killed your mother or something.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 27, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you have seen what happend to Gaddafi and you weren´t appaled, you are not a human being. Unless he killed your mother or something.


Gaddafi dressed, talked, and acted like every other authoritarian despot throughout history.  Was he as bad as US media made him out to be?  Maybe not.  Was he bad enough to have more than half of his own citizens clamoring for his head?  Yes.  Not really worth giving a second thought to, as I'm not part of a royal/ruling family.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 27, 2022)

If the US were to be overthrown one day, there would be plenty of people who would want to do bad things to the president. Let´s not forget that many politicians (including Mike Pence) supposedly feared for their lives on Jan6th last year.
I do not take pleasure in seeing somehow tortured though. To each is own.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 27, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If the US were to be overthrown one day, there would be plenty of people who would want to do bad things to the president. Let´s not forget that many politicians (including Mike Pence) supposedly feared for their lives on Jan6th last year.
> I do not take pleasure in seeing somehow tortured though. To each is own.


I didn't say I take pleasure in seeing it, I said I haven't given it a second thought.  The US doesn't have a dictator or royal family, and if it ever does I can safely say I'd be fine with revolution, no matter how bloody.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 27, 2022)

Being hated by half the population also occurs in democracies. That was my point.


----------



## kenlee168 (Mar 27, 2022)

pain for the poor, it is terrifying whenever he speak


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 27, 2022)

not much has changed in Russia, Stalin starved the Ukrainians in the 1930's and Putin bombed them in 2022 , the same lies still being told , at least some of the world didn't sit back and doing nothing this time.


----------



## spoggi (Mar 27, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> not much has changed in Russia, Stalin starved the Ukrainians in the 1930's and Putin bombed them in 2022 , the same lies still being told , at least some of the world didn't sit back and doing nothing this time.



What a creep, the normality of russian leaders? when we rule out Gorbatjov
He must be the most peacefull president in russian history


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Mar 27, 2022)

spoggi said:


> What a creep, the normality of russian leaders? when we rule out Gorbatjov
> He must be the most peacefull president in russian history



well the Russians say they fear the 'Ukrainian Nazis', but if I was Russian I'd fear my own government and Putin's friends in the CCP more. It's pretty bad when Hitler is 3rd , beaten by Stalin and  Mao


----------



## kenlee168 (Mar 28, 2022)




----------



## kenlee168 (Mar 29, 2022)

As long Biden is still in power. cough" Cold war will brew as this leader of the free world flumbles in world stage by continously leak intel.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 29, 2022)

… weird but does explain the lack of involvement from some new “members”


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 29, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> not much has changed in Russia, Stalin starved the Ukrainians in the 1930's and Putin bombed them in 2022 , the same lies still being told , at least some of the world didn't sit back and doing nothing this time.



Stalins terror targeted all kinds of peoples of the USSR, including Russians. Unfortunately, Germans and Jews had their role in creating the Soviet Union. As bad as Stalin was, the debate whether the starvation was deliberate, is ongoing. Russia - similar to China, but to a lesser extend - had missed the train regarding industrialization, causing other nations to abuse them. The communist revolutions could be seen as attempts to create parity through painful shortcuts.
I am not justifiying it, but it is not as black and white. We tend to create cartoon versions of history to calm ourselves.


----------



## djpannda (Mar 29, 2022)

That funny and scary.. 
Russian apparently lose all data for it’s aviation. And no back up’s ouch


----------



## AlexMCS (Mar 29, 2022)

djpannda said:


> That funny and scary..
> Russian apparently lose all data for it’s aviation. And no back up’s ouch




>2022
>No backups

What!? /facepalm


----------



## djpannda (Mar 29, 2022)

AlexMCS said:


> >2022
> >No backups
> 
> What!? /facepalm


Corruption and internal Money Laundering (by stealing funds from Miliarty and governmental use )  has really destroyed Russian society where they can not even pretend to be a functioning Nation any more


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 29, 2022)

djpannda said:


> … weird but does explain the lack of involvement from some new “members”



I hope the future does a better job at keeping these bots in check, not just when things hit the fan.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 1, 2022)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...opters-strike-oil-facility-INSIDE-Russia.html

Ukraine helicopters hits oil refinery.
Hope it slows the russians. Maybe it haven't been comfirmed yet but it would be cool if they had.

But why would russians blow it up them selves. It would be a sign of weakness and other things.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 1, 2022)

Is he a Russian bot/sympathizer for admitting this? Are the mainstream media going to be Russian bots/sympathizers for finally admitting this? That the ruble is not going down and Putin's approval rating is up?

I would think so, since Ukraine is clearly winning and Putin is clearly losing even with the support of that facist cheetoman Trump.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Is he a Russian bot/sympathizer for admitting this? Are the mainstream media going to be Russian bots/sympathizers for finally admitting this? That the ruble is not going down and Putin's approval rating is up?
> 
> I would think so, since Ukraine is clearly winning and Putin is clearly losing even with the support of that facist cheetoman Trump.



It's now a crime punishable by prison time to _not_ support Putin, and thousands of dissenters have already left Russia as a result. Like everything else coming out of Russian state-controlled media since this invasion began, it's meaningless.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 1, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's now a crime punishable by prison time to _not_ support Putin, and thousands of dissenters have already left Russia as a result. Like everything else coming out of Russian state-controlled media since this invasion began, it's meaningless.


And the ruble rebounding? Is that meaningless despite all the sanctions on Russia? Call me a bot all you want, but it seems like to me Russia isn't collapsing due to the Ukraine invasion as everyone thinks it is. Even if dissenters left Russia and all that's left are Putin supporters and people who have no choice to support, it's still support nonetheless.  This isn't me gushing over Putin or being a Kremlin and people like to throw that around as the new insult, I'm just observing and sharing what's going on right now.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And the ruble rebounding? Is that meaningless despite all the sanctions on Russia?


Yes.  What difference does it make if there's still nobody willing to do business in Russia?



BitMasterPlus said:


> Call me a bot all you want, but it seems like to me Russia isn't collapsing due to the Ukraine invasion as everyone thinks it is.


Russia has lost tens of thousands of troops and not managed to secure a single objective for more than a day or two.  Ukraine has pushed them so far back that they're now starting to bomb targets inside of Russia.  Putin has already lost, and unless Russia agrees to rebuild the entirety of Ukraine after their withdrawal, their economy will never be the same again in our lifetime.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Even if dissenters left Russia and all that's left are Putin supporters and people who have no choice to support, it's still support nonetheless.


First, we have no way of verifying that those numbers are even accurate, and second no, coerced support is not the same thing as genuine support.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 1, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And the ruble rebounding? Is that meaningless despite all the sanctions on Russia? Call me a bot all you want, but it seems like to me Russia isn't collapsing due to the Ukraine invasion as everyone thinks it is. Even if dissenters left Russia and all that's left are Putin supporters and people who have no choice to support, it's still support nonetheless.  This isn't me gushing over Putin or being a Kremlin and people like to throw that around as the new insult, I'm just observing and sharing what's going on right now.


.bot ? no, and Facebook informed individual ? yes!
lol love how people really trying to push =
     1.Russian media ( where you get 15 years for going against the government) = never lies
     2. USA Media ( free market ) = Never trust


Ruble is being artificially held up as the Russian stock market is still not open and the fact that stock makerts from other countries have stoped deal with Russian stocks and currency.

Putin is hoping to starve off the Stock market before they are able to claim victory. and the news that Europe is trying to be off Russian Gass by the end of 2022 is really going to destroy Russian assets for the Long Haul.


----------



## Coto (Apr 2, 2022)

So these innocent citizens in Bucha got "de nazified", huh?



And before someone says "hey, it's war, it's bound to happen", i'm not seeing Ukrainians mass killing innocent Russians.


----------



## linuxares (Apr 2, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And the ruble rebounding? Is that meaningless despite all the sanctions on Russia? Call me a bot all you want, but it seems like to me Russia isn't collapsing due to the Ukraine invasion as everyone thinks it is. Even if dissenters left Russia and all that's left are Putin supporters and people who have no choice to support, it's still support nonetheless.  This isn't me gushing over Putin or being a Kremlin and people like to throw that around as the new insult, I'm just observing and sharing what's going on right now.


They are using their reserves at the moment. Also... Bouncing from something low like that to less low isn't a rebound

Edit https://www.reuters.com/business/russias-rouble-rebound-is-not-real-it-seems-2022-04-01/


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Yes.  What difference does it make if there's still nobody willing to do business in Russia?


Russia is becoming more self sufficient from all of this, which will benefit them in the long run.


Xzi said:


> Russia has lost tens of thousands of troops and not managed to secure a single objective for more than a day or two.  Ukraine has pushed them so far back that they're now starting to bomb targets inside of Russia.  Putin has already lost, and unless Russia agrees to rebuild the entirety of Ukraine after their withdrawal, their economy will never be the same again in our lifetime.


I know Russia lost troops, but from what I've seen, unless I missed something, it doesn't look like they're getting pushed back, but pushing more into Ukraine.


Xzi said:


> First, we have no way of verifying that those numbers are even accurate, and second no, coerced support is not the same thing as genuine support.


So you don't know how many left Russia then? So them maybe the number that left wasn't enough to make a dent in him losing support. You said thousands of people left, so I was going by that. And support is support, forced or not. It doesn't really matter if it's genuine, all that matters is that he has the backing to do what he needs to do, regardless if they like him or not.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 2, 2022)

linuxares said:


> They are using their reserves at the moment. Also... Bouncing from something low like that to less low isn't a rebound
> 
> Edit https://www.reuters.com/business/russias-rouble-rebound-is-not-real-it-seems-2022-04-01/


That's another site which regularly lies, so I'm not putting my trust or stock in them either. If the ruble really is still failing by the end of all of this, then we'll see Russia fully collapse. Right now it seems Russia is getting stronger and will soon take Ukraine. Once again, I'm not a Russian bot nor do I support what Putin is doing or like what he's doing, I'm just going from what I've seen and heard from reports, but it's getting harder and harder to try to discern what is true and what's fake news because of how untrustworthy the mainstream media is and all the propaganda they've put out for years now.

But hey, you might be right. As usual, gotta wait and see how this all ends.


----------



## kenlee168 (Apr 2, 2022)

WW3 inevitable. Putin has really no option. even if he end the invasion now, he will faced war criminal charges.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Apr 2, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And the ruble rebounding? Is that meaningless despite all the sanctions on Russia? Call me a bot all you want, but it seems like to me Russia isn't collapsing due to the Ukraine invasion as everyone thinks it is. Even if dissenters left Russia and all that's left are Putin supporters and people who have no choice to support, it's still support nonetheless.  This isn't me gushing over Putin or being a Kremlin and people like to throw that around as the new insult, I'm just observing and sharing what's going on right now.


​GDP predicted to shrink 10%-15% this year


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Apr 2, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> That's another site which regularly lies, so I'm not putting my trust or stock in them either. If the ruble really is still failing by the end of all of this, then we'll see Russia fully collapse. Right now it seems Russia is getting stronger and will soon take Ukraine.



Lies, is this really from the Constitution of the Russian Federation ? , freedoms of ideas and speech, censorship shall be banned, cant be , not from the lies Putin tells 



> Article 29
> 
> 1. Everyone shall be guaranteed the freedom of ideas and speech.
> 
> ...



http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm


----------



## Xzi (Apr 2, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Russia is becoming more self sufficient from all of this, which will benefit them in the long run.


Literally their only resource is oil.  They can't grow their own coffee, produce natural sugar, or so many other things people consider day-to-day necessities.  Self-sufficiency in a global economy is nigh impossible.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I know Russia lost troops, but from what I've seen, unless I missed something, it doesn't look like they're getting pushed back, but pushing more into Ukraine.


They lost a city or two just yesterday, targeting civilians as much as possible on their way out.  They aren't even trying to win this war at this point, only inflict maximum cruelty on the people of Ukraine.



BitMasterPlus said:


> So you don't know how many left Russia then? So them maybe the number that left wasn't enough to make a dent in him losing support. You said thousands of people left, so I was going by that.


We don't have to rely on Russian state-controlled media for those numbers, so they trend far more accurate.



BitMasterPlus said:


> And support is support, forced or not. It doesn't really matter if it's genuine, all that matters is that he has the backing to do what he needs to do, regardless if they like him or not.


Putin doesn't need or care about the backing of the Russian people.  He's personally killed Russian people in the past, and he'll kill more in the future.  He _does_ care about the image he projects to the rest of the world, and that's how you know not to trust anything that comes from Russian media, as he controls all of it. Not many people still buying the smoke and mirrors act these days though, his "tough guy" illusion has been dispelled.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 2, 2022)

Russian troops regrouping in Ukraine
Must be humiliating for Putin. Hope that in the region where the troops is heading for
will strike back and be okay


----------



## spoggi (Apr 2, 2022)

Like the fact that if it was Ukraine attack helicopters that stroke the russian oil refinery
then it would tell the fact that Ukraines Airforce is still operationel


----------



## subcon959 (Apr 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Literally their only resource is oil.


Not exactly true, they have plenty of minerals. I'm pretty sure they have one of the largest iron ore deposits on the planet.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 2, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Not exactly true, they have plenty of minerals. I'm pretty sure they have one of the largest iron ore deposits on the planet.


Oh good, so they can at least keep building more prison-like housing for their citizens.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 2, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Oh good, so they can at least keep building more prison-like housing for their citizens.


OMG that was a good one
For more war protesters
Im almost regretting i wrote that


----------



## sarkwalvein (Apr 2, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> That's another site which regularly lies, so I'm not putting my trust or stock in them either.


Is there any site that doesn't regularly lie?
I mean, I don't trust any particular news site anymore, I weave something I hope may be close to a "reality" by reading multiple sources, knowing their biases, and trying to find what a "reality" may look like as a center point from all these different narratives while trying to compensate for the bias I expect each of those narratives have.

I don't think you may disagree with this, but I just wanted to say all sources have a certain bias, full trust into any source is not possible for me. That is the current state of journalism. Best thing to do IMHO is to read many sources, opposing sources, even sources you completely disagree with as to also compensate for your own internal bias, and try to find what is likely true in between.

PS: but for this a lack of censorship is needed, something that in the west was certainly the case until not so long ago... but the west has disappointed me in this effect in the last months or so; censorship is bad, how can you talk about democracy if you underestimate the people, how can you say some elite is above people and can decide for them what they can read, if you don't let people exercise their own reading comprehension and analytic capabilities then you really are not letting people to decide for themselves, and that is not a democracy.

PS2: and just in case it is not clear, and to get even more people annoyed with me: I am not defending the style of Russia or China, e.g., I believe the way they handle information is garbage, is dictatorial, full censorship bullshit that is not compatible with democracy, but that is not new... anyway the west goes more and more in this same direction every day, closer to that style, full 1984.


----------



## smf (Apr 2, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> how can you talk about democracy if you underestimate the people, how can you say some elite is above people and can decide for them what they can read, if you don't let people exercise their own reading comprehension and analytic capabilities then you really are not letting people to decide for themselves, and that is not a democracy.


For the same reason we don't legalize crack cocaine but allow alcohol.

There are certain ways to frame things that will always brainwash people who are susceptible. In the time between WW2 and Trump we had decided not to indulge in such practices, since then it's gone to shit.

Of course some people felt that first rush of Trump and then just wanted more and more, in the same way drug addicts keep chasing that greater high. Blaming foreigners for your problems is as satisfying to Trump supporters as drug addicts first ever hit.

And I don't think you need to be an elite to say it's wrong to vilify Mike Pence so much that a crowd march up to his place of work and threaten to hang him. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/12/trump-capitol-attack-rioters-mike-pence

Society has a responsibility to protect people from harm. Otherwise why de we even have laws?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Apr 2, 2022)

smf said:


> Society has a responsibility to protect people from harm. Otherwise why de we even have laws?


Then who is society but people itself, how does society decide what society shouldn't read without reading it? Or is this "society" a selected elite from the people? Are people then not society? Where is the demos in democracy? Who is then deciding what should be thought and what should be done and how society should move forward in this "demo"cracy?

PS: and in the end how is this any different to what China or Russia do, aren't they "protecting" people form "reading" or "communicating" "false" information too? In their own way? /s


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Apr 2, 2022)

The story of an elite Russian unit's war in Ukraine - BBC Newsnight​
considered the best of the best, it's not looking good for them, 100+ dead ?


----------



## spoggi (Apr 2, 2022)

Ukrainan drone targeting is pretty smart now they dont waste any ammo
unlike the Russians that bombs in blind


----------



## Davycrockof (Apr 2, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Russian troops regrouping in Ukraine
> Must be humiliating for Putin. Hope that in the region where the troops is heading for
> will strike back and be okay


Russia is doing pretty well in this proxy war.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 2, 2022)

Davycrockof said:


> Russia is doing pretty well in this proxy war.


Well thats your opinion


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 2, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> GDP predicted to shrink 10%-15% this year


Of who? Russia? You just made a sentence fragment so it's hard to understand exactly if that's what you mean.



JoeBloggs777 said:


> Lies, is this really from the Constitution of the Russian Federation ? , freedoms of ideas and speech, censorship shall be banned, cant be , not from the lies Putin tells
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-03.htm


Again, this seems like another fragmented response to my post and I'm confused as to what to make of it, how to interpret it. Apologies, but can you be more clear?



sarkwalvein said:


> Is there any site that doesn't regularly lie?
> I mean, I don't trust any particular news site anymore, I weave something I hope may be close to a "reality" by reading multiple sources, knowing their biases, and trying to find what a "reality" may look like as a center point from all these different narratives while trying to compensate for the bias I expect each of those narratives have.
> 
> I don't think you may disagree with this, but I just wanted to say all sources have a certain bias, full trust into any source is not possible for me. That is the current state of journalism. Best thing to do IMHO is to read many sources, opposing sources, even sources you completely disagree with as to also compensate for your own internal bias, and try to find what is likely true in between.
> ...


Well, you are right on that. Most places do have bias, but a lot of those places let their bias get in the way of the facts and they either make up or omit details to fit their narrative. You can never really be unbiased as some claim, as people will always have a little bias to a topic one way or another, but you can still be biased and tell the truth and share the facts. If you have an opinion on a certain matter, then tell it after you report what's actually happening instead of twisting it to fit a narrative.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 2, 2022)

spoggi said:


> OMG that was a good one
> For more war protesters
> Im almost regretting i wrote that


I was referring to their actual housing, which has been rather prison-like in its drab grey uniformity ever since the USSR was still around.  I shouldn't make light of it, but at some point it does start to feel like anybody choosing to stay in Russia must have Stockholm syndrome to some degree.


----------



## subcon959 (Apr 3, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I was referring to their actual housing, which has been rather prison-like in its drab grey uniformity ever since the USSR was still around.  I shouldn't make light of it, but at some point it does start to feel like anybody choosing to stay in Russia must have Stockholm syndrome to some degree.


I dunno about in the US, but the UK is full of such drab housing for lower income people.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 3, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I dunno about in the US, but the UK is full of such drab housing for lower income people.


Oh we have large low-income apartment complexes in the US, but they aren't nearly as bad as the Russian buildings I'm referring to.  They've typically got at least some color to them, even if the paint is peeling, and some character to them.  So much Russian architecture looks like it's constructed solely from iron and concrete.


----------



## smf (Apr 3, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> Then who is society but people itself, how does society decide what society shouldn't read without reading it? Or is this "society" a selected elite from the people? Are people then not society? Where is the demos in democracy? Who is then deciding what should be thought and what should be done and how society should move forward in this "demo"cracy?
> 
> PS: and in the end how is this any different to what China or Russia do, aren't they "protecting" people form "reading" or "communicating" "false" information too? In their own way? /s


I find your argument disingenuous at best, do you really not understand?


----------



## spoggi (Apr 3, 2022)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ar-crimes-as-bucha-reveals-horror-of-invasion

So the castrated dog soldiers from Russia is now shooting people on sight
They probably did without getting orders about it.
Hopefully they will be held accountable


----------



## Davycrockof (Apr 3, 2022)

spoggi said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ar-crimes-as-bucha-reveals-horror-of-invasion
> 
> So the castrated dog soldiers from Russia is now shooting people on sight
> They probably did without getting orders about it.
> Hopefully they will be held accountable


They can carpet bomb the country and be done with this whole conflict but there out there shooting people on sight? Maybe because all the men are forced to stay and are armed?


----------



## spoggi (Apr 3, 2022)

Sometime i hope France will launce a nuclear attack on putin and his henchmen 
in their bunker before they can respond. The closer to the scource the faster the impact
But maybe it will come to that


----------



## spoggi (Apr 3, 2022)

If Usa shoul decide to attack russia with nuclear bombs
putin will have time to wipe out the most of the planet but the closer the less time he have to respond


----------



## spoggi (Apr 3, 2022)

Davycrockof said:


> They can carpet bomb the country and be done with this whole conflict but there out there shooting people on sight? Maybe because all the men are forced to stay and are armed?


More because they are cowards that are shooting and raping innocent people
And most of all because of their withdrawal from the kyiv region and because they have to live in shame because of it.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 3, 2022)

https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/bu...-said-putin-would-rule-the-world-4808624.html

Not to my likings but it would say some truth about nuclear war atleast in Europe

even though it was true Putin would only rule for about 20 years
since he would be 89 by that time and most likely be senile
20 years sound bad enough


----------



## sarkwalvein (Apr 3, 2022)

smf said:


> I find your argument disingenuous at best, do you really not understand?


No, I don't understand. Please explain.

PS: Just in case this reply could be misunderstood I write this PS; I really don't understand why do you find the argument disingenuous, and I ask you to please explain to me why do you think it is, if that' fine with you, because there is no intent for the argument to be disingenuous at all, it is a trend in behavior (regarding censorship) that I believe I am seeing in western society that is sincerely worrying me... I believe this behavior is similar to what I have seen in China and Russia for decades and that worries me, I don't like that.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 3, 2022)

This is the worst in humanity and to see Putin apologists is sickening..


----------



## smf (Apr 4, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> No, I don't understand. Please explain.
> 
> PS: Just in case this reply could be misunderstood I write this PS; I really don't understand why do you find the argument disingenuous, and I ask you to please explain to me why do you think it is, if that' fine with you, because there is no intent for the argument to be disingenuous at all, it is a trend in behavior (regarding censorship) that I believe I am seeing in western society that is sincerely worrying me... I believe this behavior is similar to what I have seen in China and Russia for decades and that worries me, I don't like that.


It's because you talked about elite, in a pejorative way. As if the elected politicians and the appointed judges that pass the laws interpret them to protect people from themselves and others, are somehow unnecessary.

If you don't understand how society works, then I don't think we can have a meaningful conversation. I thought you were faking it.

There is a balance of course, in Russia you cannot speak about anything other than what the government wants you to believe. I didn't propose that, any more than someone trying to ban porn that depicts rape or torture of seemingly unwilling participants, is trying to ban all porn.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 5, 2022)

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/31/ukraine-apparent-pow-abuse-would-be-war-crime

I guess it's okay when an invaded country does it? Not a bot or Russia shill, but name calling won't change what's actually happening. I mostly posted this to see what everyone think of all of this, since Ukraine isn't the angel state the media tries to portray it as. Russia and Putin suck ass also, but so does Ukraine in my eyes.

https://www.infowars.com/posts/russ...-for-direct-military-involvement-in-conflict/

I honestly can't say if it was stated by the Ukraine army or if Russia really did it, considering it's a shitfest over there right now, and it's not easy to find out. If Russian forces did do it, then god damn them. If Ukraine staged it for more support, than that's evil and scummy. Either way, the more this drags out, the more of human nature's dark side seems to come out. I'm half convinced Putin's just milking this invasion anyway at this point since it's take a bit too long now.

We now need a meme video of a Putin model dancing over the destroyed remains of Ukraine cities with some music and this will all come full circle.


----------



## kenlee168 (Apr 5, 2022)

Once a dictator saw a chance of weakness from biden handling of afghanistan hasty ill prepared withdrawal leaving weapons and how chaotic it expose a deep incompetance. Putin took the chance but he is surrounded by same ppl but too afraid to tell him the truth.


----------



## Taleweaver (Apr 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I honestly can't say if it was stated by the Ukraine army or if Russia really did it, considering it's a shitfest over there right now, and it's not easy to find out. If Russian forces did do it, then god damn them. If Ukraine staged it for more support, than that's evil and scummy. Either way, the more this drags out, the more of human nature's dark side seems to come out. I'm half convinced Putin's just milking this invasion anyway at this point since it's take a bit too long now.


Actually, it's not only very easy to find out, but it's already verified as being true.

Russia claims the bodies were only recently planted there, but satellite images (not Ukraine 's) show that they've been there in some cases since the beginning of the Russian occupation, and none were added (at least not on the street) afterwards.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 6, 2022)

Just in case Putin's goals weren't already obvious: Russian state media has released a report outlining a plan to "fully eliminate" Ukraine.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/worl...chilling-plan-to-fully-eliminate-ukraine.html


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 6, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Actually, it's not only very easy to find out, but it's already verified as being true.
> 
> Russia claims the bodies were only recently planted there, but satellite images (not Ukraine 's) show that they've been there in some cases since the beginning of the Russian occupation, and none were added (at least not on the street) afterwards.


Because we don't have programs or techniques to edit and manipulate pictures nowadays, even satellite images, right?

I'm not for Russia nor Ukraine at this point. Ukraine is run by a corrupt puppet government that has "secrets" certain top US politicians don't want to get out (and I put it in quotes since most of it isn't secret anymore) and Russia is run by dumb assholes, so both places can burn in hell for all I care.  We've seen how bad both countries are at this point, but some still want to ignore certain inconvenient facts about one side in order to get favor in various social media sites by "standing against meanie Putin, I stand with Ukraine!" even though those people would run away like cowards when it would come to real conflict showing up to their door.

I only feel bad for the innocent civilians that have to suffer through all this bullshit.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Just in case Putin's goals weren't already obvious: Russian state media has released a report outlining a plan to "fully eliminate" Ukraine.
> 
> https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/worl...chilling-plan-to-fully-eliminate-ukraine.html


What country should i use in vpn the link says country restricted

Nevermind use colombia vpn


----------



## Xzi (Apr 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Ukraine is run by a corrupt puppet government


Jesus you're a real piece of work.  Willing to convince yourself of anything so long as it allows you to justify playing the 'enlightened centrist.'  Suffice it to say that if the current Ukrainian government was half as corrupt as you claim, the war never would've happened because Putin would've just bought them out.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I only feel bad for the innocent civilians that have to suffer through all this bullshit.


Clearly not that bad though, or you wouldn't be shit talking their leaders who have stuck by them this whole time, throughout all the pain and suffering.


----------



## Taleweaver (Apr 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because we don't have programs or techniques to edit and manipulate pictures nowadays, even satellite images, right?


Of course we do. And if it was just ukraine making that claim unverified i wouldn't even have responded (not much point in calling everyone else lying). 

But it isn't. Pretty much the opposite, in fact. Like... Check this article :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...f-corpses-in-bucha-prove-russian-claims-wrong

If that's fake news, it's a conspiracy theory with a HUGE amount of involved parties :
The guardian, the new York times, the published pictures from the ground (that line up with the satellite images), the multiple companies owning the multiple satellites overview the area... And I'm probably missing some. See, satellite images aren't just pictures from up in the sky, but they track the whereabouts as well. Our rather : when the pictures on the ground match the geodata of the sky, either they both not only need to be fake but also aligned to tell the exact same fake image.

... Which of course had to be made real the second the Russians left Bucha, because ey... That's how the city was found afterward. 

But where's the Russian side in all this? Your own article starts with 'Russia claims false flag', but even those authors are pretty sceptic. A general tweet from Russian defense ministry. That's it? No "here's footage from our own troops while they were in Bucha". No satellite images (Russia has those things as well, y'know).?

Sorry, but considering the footage, that's a pretty meager excuse.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because we don't have programs or techniques to edit and manipulate pictures nowadays, even satellite images


Russia : WE have not killed Civilians 
Also Russia: We brought MULTIPLE mobile crematoria for....NO REASON...


----------



## leon315 (Apr 6, 2022)

djpannda said:


> This is the worst in humanity and to see Putin apologists is sickening..



sir, next time put pics like these under a spoiler pèlz, CAUZ THEY ARE DISTURBING AS F, and i feel my lunch is coming out in reverse way after i watched the photos of dead people.


----------



## Glyptofane (Apr 6, 2022)

Ruble's up, dollar's down, and Uncle Vanya's is on the rise to replace McDonald's.

In Soviet Russia, sanctions sanction you!


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 6, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Jesus you're a real piece of work.  Willing to convince yourself of anything so long as it allows you to justify playing the 'enlightened centrist.'  Suffice it to say that if the current Ukrainian government was half as corrupt as you claim, the war never would've happened because Putin would've just bought them out.
> 
> 
> Clearly not that bad though, or you wouldn't be shit talking their leaders who have stuck by them this whole time, throughout all the pain and suffering.


blah blah blah go cry in your closet more


Taleweaver said:


> Of course we do. And if it was just ukraine making that claim unverified i wouldn't even have responded (not much point in calling everyone else lying).
> 
> But it isn't. Pretty much the opposite, in fact. Like... Check this article :
> 
> ...


There is a conspiracy to a point, a lot of propaganda pushing, but at this point, unless you were physically there, it's a lot of "he said, she said" being flung around. Yes, people are getting killed over there, but for some instances, it's harder to tell which side is actually telling the truth. Whichever side is doing atrocities, or both, I will condemn then, but the media needs to stop lying first, which at this point, they almost never will. That's why I'm skeptical at first when any news come out at this point. I'd rather wait for more information, but I will share what I find interesting for discussion, which can't happen on this site regardless lol But it is what it is.



djpannda said:


> Russia : WE have not killed Civilians
> Also Russia: We brought MULTIPLE mobile crematoria for....NO REASON...



Because it's better to let the bodies of dead soldiers and civilians rot in the hot sun. Like I said above, maybe Russia has committed these atrocities, which they should be held accountable, but I wouldn't past it if Ukraine had some hand in it to gain even more favor and support from the international community. Watch, long when this is all over, the truth will come out on how bad this shit actually got over there, then we'll know the full story. Right now, it's hard to trust what's happening fully.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 6, 2022)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/wor...katerina-tikhonova-sanctioned-eu-b992743.html

Putin's daughters sanctioned by Usa
What next maybe they will be forced to drive skodas


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## BitMasterPlus (Apr 6, 2022)

spoggi said:


> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/wor...katerina-tikhonova-sanctioned-eu-b992743.html
> 
> Putin's daughters sanctioned by Usa
> What next maybe they will be forced to drive skodas


Oh geez. Well that's it bois, now Putin has officially lost the war. If he continues, the next step Biden will do will be to stare at him angrily and wave his finger.


----------



## lokomelo (Apr 6, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Ruble's up, dollar's down, and Uncle Vanya's is on the rise to replace McDonald's.
> 
> In Soviet Russia, sanctions sanction you!


Sanctions works well to make regular people starve. For remove leaders from power, it never worked. Cuba, Iran, North Korea are all under sanctions for years (half century for Cuba). Their regimes still thrive.

Will it work for Russia? We don't know, but if a medicine never worked, is it a good idea to try again?


----------



## Taleweaver (Apr 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> There is a conspiracy to a point, a lot of propaganda pushing, but at this point, unless you were physically there, it's a lot of "he said, she said" being flung around. Yes, people are getting killed over there, but for some instances, it's harder to tell which side is actually telling the truth. Whichever side is doing atrocities, or both, I will condemn then, but the media needs to stop lying first, which at this point, they almost never will. That's why I'm skeptical at first when any news come out at this point. I'd rather wait for more information, but I will share what I find interesting for discussion, which can't happen on this site regardless lol But it is what it is


Again : would be true if we would take Zelenski's word at face value. But the satellite images act like peer reviews: they validate both the pictures on the ground during the massacre as the video footage afterward (which isn't disputed, btw... Russia basically said ukraine killed its own citizens for the heck of it and then dumped them there). 
And it's that last part that breaks that 'he said she said' you use as an excuse for ignorance. It's verified by independent sources.


(Christ... And as I'm typing this, the news shows video footage of the area wherein a Russian tank shoots at someone on a bike. On a freaking bike!)


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 6, 2022)

I don´t get it. The Western media has been saying that Russia is targeting civilians. Zelensky spoke of genocide and compared it to the holocaust in front of Israelis (not a good idea, let me tell you).
And then a few hundred civilians are top news around the world around the clock. Wouldn´t you expect to see that every day? I am sorry for the victims, I just want to point out this contradiction.


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## spoggi (Apr 6, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Again : would be true if we would take Zelenski's word at face value. But the satellite images act like peer reviews: they validate both the pictures on the ground during the massacre as the video footage afterward (which isn't disputed, btw... Russia basically said ukraine killed its own citizens for the heck of it and then dumped them there).
> And it's that last part that breaks that 'he said she said' you use as an excuse for ignorance. It's verified by independent sources.
> 
> 
> (Christ... And as I'm typing this, the news shows video footage of the area wherein a Russian tank shoots at someone on a bike. On a freaking bike!)


I dont think the Russian soldiers killed all the civillians by taking orders
Why would a general or a major give orders about that.
They would almost do crap in their pants worring about war crime accusations. Hopefully they would

Maybe in the beginning of the war they were told to do
but now things have gone out of control


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## KingVamp (Apr 6, 2022)

They are trying hard to sanction the oligarchs directly as well. 



Taleweaver said:


> Again : would be true if we would take Zelenski's word at face value. But the satellite images act like peer reviews: they validate both the pictures on the ground during the massacre as the video footage afterward (which isn't disputed, btw... Russia basically said ukraine killed its own citizens for the heck of it and then dumped them there).
> And it's that last part that breaks that 'he said she said' you use as an excuse for ignorance. It's verified by independent sources.


Not to mention, put more stock in the country that's being invaded.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> blah blah blah go cry in your closet more


"I'm gonna bitch about corruption and puppet politicians without a hint of irony now.  Yes, I supported and still support Donald Trump, what of it?"


----------



## Glyptofane (Apr 7, 2022)

I guess discussion on this would be dying down with the revelation that US intelligence is pushing idiotic atrocity hoaxes as a matter of policy. 

Congratulations on falling for and propagating obvious lies that were called out from the beginning... yet again.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...nfo-war-russia-even-intel-isnt-rock-rcna23014


----------



## djpannda (Apr 7, 2022)

Finally all it took was thousands of Ukrainian lives in 4 weeks.
now I'm just waiting for the Security Council


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## djpannda (Apr 7, 2022)

you can't fire me, I quit lol


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## Taleweaver (Apr 7, 2022)

spoggi said:


> I dont think the Russian soldiers killed all the civillians by taking orders
> Why would a general or a major give orders about that.
> They would almost do crap in their pants worring about war crime accusations. Hopefully they would
> 
> ...


I initially agreed with you. But remember how those generals communicate over plain cell phones and walkie talkies? 
Well... Their underlings don't have better security. And they were listened to. And intercepted. 

German intelligence(1) confirms that it were indeed exactly that. These weren't soldiers going rogue but following orders from their superiors. 

I don't think they worry too much about war crime accusations right now. 


(1): meaning : the number of instances confirming what took place grows even more


----------



## spoggi (Apr 7, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> I initially agreed with you. But remember how those generals communicate over plain cell phones and walkie talkies?
> Well... Their underlings don't have better security. And they were listened to. And intercepted.
> 
> German intelligence(1) confirms that it were indeed exactly that. These weren't soldiers going rogue but following orders from their superiors.
> ...


Today i heard in the news that war crimes happen on both sides
the only difference is that Russia denies all that happened
but Ukraine takes responsibility and want to investigate the accusations


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## KingVamp (Apr 7, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Finally all it took was thousands of Ukrainian lives in 4 weeks. now I'm just waiting for the Security Council


I didn't even know this was possible.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 7, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> I didn't even know this was possible.


yea these are last resort options,
Some are saying it might cause WWIII but it does not seem likely as the Russian army has overplayed its hand and lost the Respect and fear of world. Military might has been be lacking to the point a Non- Nuclear War with US ...Heck ....Cananda  ( not a knock as Cananda has become a Military badass) would over power Russia


----------



## spoggi (Apr 7, 2022)

Even though the russians are bastards...Not all
i still like to hear T.a.t.u


----------



## linuxares (Apr 7, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Even though the russians are bastards...Not all
> i still like to hear T.a.t.u


A lot of Russians don't dare to speak their mind. It's back to the CCCP days where your neigbour can tattle on you.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 7, 2022)

linuxares said:


> A lot of Russians don't dare to speak their mind. It's back to the CCCP days where your neigbour can tattle on you.


Yes i know but a lot of russians dont speak up because they are afraid i think
They might say they dont care but the truth sometime speak otherwise

Just my opinion but im mabye a little naive on the russians


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## djpannda (Apr 8, 2022)

so Putin Considers civilians fleeing by Train to be miliarty targets.



but of Course the Kremlin is saying these are Ukrianian propaganda and Claiming there are no dead as this are dummies.
Russian TV then shows  people in uniform positioning Dummys in a Super Cropped Video so you don't see the surroundings.



But of course the video of the Dummy as from March 20 showing fall from windows *FILMED IN RUSSIA*

"Director Nadezhda Kolobaeva: “The video with the mannequin was made during the filming of the series in Russia: “It was on March 20 that we filmed a fall from the window for the series in Vsevolozhsk, this is our stunt coordinator with an assistant preparing Albertik for shooting!”

Yet the "Anti-MSM" are still sucking on Kremlin TV teet.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 9, 2022)

Pretty much sums up how I feel at this point. It's actually getting boring talking about Ukraine now, and people are getting more and more retarded with the "support" they're giving to them.  It's just an invasion made by a former KGB now leader of a country lunatic who doesn't want a punch of pussy nations and leaders (NATO) right at his doorstep so he invaded a country run by a glorifies crisis actor (it's true, he was an actor before he became president of Ukraine, look it up). Do I approve of his actions? Hell no. But I'm not gonna care about a conflict halfway across the world when our own nation has a list of problems the size of our own border wall.

If you wanna support Ukraine so much and hate Putin, then go buy one of those "mass killing" AR-15 rifles you hate so much and go over there and kick some kremlin ass. (Although I advise against doing so, considering how that worked out when redditors decided to join the fight) But just keep stroking your ego to "support Ukraine".

"But they're committing war crimes and sending in portable furnaces to cover it up!" I really don't care if the troops were skinning people alive and dipping them in battery acid for shits and giggles. No one cares about drug trafficking, sex trafficking which does involve children, persecution of Uyghur Muslims in China, and a whole lot of other shit that's happening around the world, but I have to stop what I'm doing to care about this specific instance of people this time. I pray for the civilians to come out of this safely over there, but it's not something we need to get involved in.

"B-B-B-B-B-But they're literally killing civilians!." Dude, it's' a war. Civilians are going to get caught in the cross hairs unintentionally or not. I'd be more surprised if no civilian casualties were reported.

"B-B-B-B-B-But Putin is a lateral nazi monster!" And Ukraine has the Azov battalion which started way back in 2014, long before any of this started, and is still active today, but most likely are being hidden to avoid negative press, so it's not just a recent thing that was just made up, they've been active for a few years now and no one had a problem with them for all that time despite the rightly justified hate for Nazi's in general (which should extent to any extremist group really).

We can't even fund to re-open the restaurants and and help people get their lively hood back from the unjust covid restrictions, but we do have enough to send $15 billion dollars and more just for another country across the Atlantic. Makes sense, right. That's fair. Another simple problem we can't solve in our own country, but we can in other countries.

Honestly, I'm really tired about hearing Ukraine. This battle is really dragging now, and it's personally gotten boring to me. So let me know when Putin does his fortnite dance in the ashes of Ukraine when he takes it over.


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## Lacius (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I really don't care if the troops were skinning people alive and dipping them in battery acid for shits and giggles.


Yikes. You're a real stand-up human being, aren't you?


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 9, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Yikes. You're a real stand-up human being, aren't you?


Not any more than you or the others on this site. I was ranting a bit, but eh. If no one cares about killing babies inside the womb, even literally after their just born in some cases, I shouldn't care about Ukrainians half way across the world (and I'm just using that as an example, not to sprout another argument about it that's irrelevant to this thread, so I'm leaving it at that). Also pointing out the apparent selective concern about some human rights abuses but not others.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I was ranting a bit, but eh.


No, you were just straight-up expressing support for ethnic cleansing and/or genocide.  See a therapist.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, you were just straight-up expressing support for ethnic cleansing and/or genocide.  See a therapist.


Oh yes, I can't wait to see all those Ukrainians dye. I like how you equate what I said about me not caring between the conflict of two shit nations killing each other across the ocean from my country to straight up genocide. Eat my ass fuckface. Why don't YOU stop being so fake?


----------



## subcon959 (Apr 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, you were just straight-up expressing support for ethnic cleansing and/or genocide.  See a therapist.


To be fair, he's right that nobody seems to care as much about the ethnic cleansing of Uyghurs in China, or the genocide by Saudis in Yemen. At least, I've never seen anywhere near as much news coverage let alone any attempts at intervention.


----------



## Aerocool (Apr 9, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> To be fair, he's right that nobody seems to care as much about the ethnic cleansing of Uyghurs in China, or the genocide by Saudis in Yemen. At least, I've never seen anywhere near as much news coverage let alone any attempts at intervention.


Because apparently nobody cared about the Uighurs (which isn’t true btw) it’s okay when people get killed? Ever heard of the word empathy?


----------



## Xzi (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh yes, I can't wait to see all those Ukrainians dye. I like how you equate what I said about me not caring between the conflict of two shit nations killing each other across the ocean from my country to straight up genocide. Eat my ass fuckface. Why don't YOU stop being so fake?


Precisely the type of anger issues you need to see a therapist for.  For someone who "doesn't care," the very concept of having empathy for others sure seems to trigger you hard.



subcon959 said:


> To be fair, he's right that nobody seems to care as much about the ethnic cleansing of Uyghurs in China, or the genocide by Saudis in Yemen.


I posted a thread about the abhorrent treatment of the Uyghurs literally years ago, before BitMasterPlus was even aware of the issue I'm sure.  People don't talk about Yemen much because there's fuck all we can do about it, both Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a much better position to intervene, should either actually care to.  Also, nobody should have to spell out the reasons why a world power like Russia invading a sovereign nation and targeting civilians for cold-blooded execution is news worthy.


----------



## KingVamp (Apr 9, 2022)

"Not picking a side, but I'm just going to continuously post anti-Ukraine messages."


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> People don't talk about Yemen much because there's fuck all we can do about it, both Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a much better position to intervene


Asking Saudia Arabia to intervene in Yemen is like asking Russia to intervene in Ukraine.
The Saudis do not like Iranian influence in Yemen and therefore bombed the country, causing the worst humanitarian crisis in the world for the past years.
We could sanction Saudia Arabia but they are our friends, aren´t they? That´s what it all comes down to.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> We could sanction Saudia Arabia but they are our friends, aren´t they? That´s what it all comes down to.


Yep, all comes down to our reliance on foreign oil (and oil in general).  The Saudi royal family are amoral monsters, as are royal families in general, but both parties bow down to them because both parties are capitalist first and everything else second.  If their involvement in 9/11 didn't get the US to act against them, nothing will.


----------



## ChicoManu (Apr 9, 2022)

sad


----------



## Lacius (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Not any more than you or the others on this site. I was ranting a bit, but eh. If no one cares about killing babies inside the womb, even literally after their just born in some cases, I shouldn't care about Ukrainians half way across the world (and I'm just using that as an example, not to sprout another argument about it that's irrelevant to this thread, so I'm leaving it at that). Also pointing out the apparent selective concern about some human rights abuses but not others.


Whataboutism doesn't excuse the expression of deplorable sentiments.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Pretty much sums up how I feel at this point. It's actually getting boring talking about Ukraine now, and people are getting more and more retarded with the "support" they're giving to them.  It's just an invasion made by a former KGB now leader of a country lunatic who doesn't want a punch of pussy nations and leaders (NATO) right at his doorstep so he invaded a country run by a glorifies crisis actor (it's true, he was an actor before he became president of Ukraine, look it up). Do I approve of his actions? Hell no. But I'm not gonna care about a conflict halfway across the world when our own nation has a list of problems the size of our own border wall.
> 
> If you wanna support Ukraine so much and hate Putin, then go buy one of those "mass killing" AR-15 rifles you hate so much and go over there and kick some kremlin ass. (Although I advise against doing so, considering how that worked out when redditors decided to join the fight) But just keep stroking your ego to "support Ukraine".
> 
> ...



… yet only 1 country committed war crimes by attacking a sovereign nation.. but sure Your bored because you have no moral ground left as the world is against it. It’s sad to see you’re so disconnected to human empathy you refused to understand the needless devastation of unnecessary  war.

Funny how your bored but continue to view and post on the thread..

 grifter gonna grift


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 9, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Whataboutism doesn't excuse the expression of deplorable sentiments.


And hypocritism doesn't excuse caring about issues that's convenient for you.


Xzi said:


> Precisely the type of anger issues you need to see a therapist for.  For someone who "doesn't care," the very concept of having empathy for others sure seems to trigger you hard.


Only because you said I advocated for pure genocide. I said I don't care about other countries conflicts if it doesn't involve us since we have our own problems, I didn't say I wanted pure genocide. You just purely twisted my words to make me look like a bad guy, and that's just plain scummy. I guess I could say you want the persecution and death of innocent Russian soldiers just following orders, but it's a lot more complicated than that.


Xzi said:


> I posted a thread about the abhorrent treatment of the Uyghurs literally years ago, before BitMasterPlus was even aware of the issue I'm sure.  People don't talk about Yemen much because there's fuck all we can do about it, both Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a much better position to intervene, should either actually care to.  Also, nobody should have to spell out the reasons why a world power like Russia invading a sovereign nation and targeting civilians for cold-blooded execution is news worthy.


Oh wow, you made a thread to acknowledge it. You sure made the difference there, just like now. What's next, gonna post the symbol for Uyghurs on your twitter bio to show support? That's gonna make a world of difference there. Just admit it, you and others didn't do jack shit then, and you're not doing jack shit now other than saying others should get involved and go assassinate a foreign leader like Putin like it's a simple task. Here's an idea, since it's so easy, why don't you go over and kill Putin and end all of this? And while you're at it, go to China and liberate the Uyghurs and save the Saudis in Yemen. I know you can do it Rambo, you're a killer machine.



djpannda said:


> … yet only 1 country committed war crimes by attacking a sovereign nation.. but sure Your bored because you have no moral ground left as the world is against it. It’s sad to see you’re so disconnected to human empathy you refused to understand the needless devastation of unnecessary  war.
> 
> Funny how your bored but continue to view and post on the thread..
> 
> grifter gonna grift


Oh gee, because Russia and Putin is the only country in the history of forever to have committed war crimes and gotten away with it. No other country or leaders, even in the USA, have done the same and gotten away with it. Okay Nazi grifter.



KingVamp said:


> "Not picking a side, but I'm just going to continuously post anti-Ukraine messages."


"Not picking a side, but I'm just gonna sit on my fat useless ass and continuously post anti-Putin messages and show support for Ukraine so I can farm for karma points online to make it seem like I'm doing something."



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Asking Saudia Arabia to intervene in Yemen is like asking Russia to intervene in Ukraine.
> The Saudis do not like Iranian influence in Yemen and therefore bombed the country, causing the worst humanitarian crisis in the world for the past years.
> We could sanction Saudia Arabia but they are our friends, aren´t they? That´s what it all comes down to.


It's funny because we were becoming energy independent, and independent in a lot of other areas, before you know who was "elected" president, and now we need other countries who don't even answer our calls anymore for oil.


----------



## subcon959 (Apr 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I posted a thread about the abhorrent treatment of the Uyghurs literally years ago, before BitMasterPlus was even aware of the issue I'm sure.  People don't talk about Yemen much because there's fuck all we can do about it, both Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a much better position to intervene, should either actually care to.


I don't mean people on this forum don't care, I meant it wasn't deemed newsworthy to the extent it should have been. It's been truly horrific and the MSM should've been using their influence to bring as much light as possible. Personal opinion, MBS is on a whole new level when it comes to human monsters compared to even Putin.


----------



## KingVamp (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh gee, because Russia and Putin is the only country in the history of forever to have committed war crimes and gotten away with it. No other country or leaders, even in the USA, have done the same and gotten away with it. Okay Nazi grifter.


Luckily the world finally decided to not let a country get away with it, yet you are treating that as a bad thing. 



BitMasterPlus said:


> "Not picking a side, but I'm just gonna sit on my fat useless ass and continuously post anti-Putin messages and show support for Ukraine so I can farm for karma points online to make it seem like I'm doing something."


Actually, I picked a side and I donated, but even if I didn't, that is still better than supporting the side that's doing the invading. 



BitMasterPlus said:


> It's funny because we were becoming energy independent, and independent in a lot of other areas, before you know who was "elected" president, and now we need other countries who don't even answer our calls anymore for oil.


Because the last guy, who only got elected because of our lopsided system, worked on getting us off oil, so we wouldn't have to rely on it in the first place.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I said I don't care about other countries conflicts if it doesn't involve us since we have our own problems


There's always more than one thing going on in the world at a time, that doesn't mean you need to scramble to find excuses for why you shouldn't care when the modern-day equivalent of Hitler starts invading other countries.  That's not a healthy coping mechanism.



BitMasterPlus said:


> I guess I could say you want the persecution and death of innocent Russian soldiers just following orders, but it's a lot more complicated than that.


Oh c'mon, now you're only trying to troll me.  "Just following orders," really?  You can't think of any other historical context in which that defense was rejected?



BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh wow, you made a thread to acknowledge it. You sure made the difference there, just like now. What's next, gonna post the symbol for Uyghurs on your twitter bio to show support? That's gonna make a world of difference there. Just admit it, you and others didn't do jack shit then, and you're not doing jack shit now other than saying others should get involved and go assassinate a foreign leader like Putin like it's a simple task. Here's an idea, since it's so easy, why don't you go over and kill Putin and end all of this? And while you're at it, go to China and liberate the Uyghurs and save the Saudis in Yemen. I know you can do it Rambo, you're a killer machine.


"Why should you or I do anything if we can't do everything?"  Because nihilism is useless and cringeworthy in any context.  You're also far too young to be letting it control your life already.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 9, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Luckily the world finally decided to not let a country get away with it, yet you are treating that as a bad thing.


By doing what? Sanctioning him and Russia? He's not actually getting arrested or being taken off of being prime minister for war crimes so I'd say nothing is actually being done.


KingVamp said:


> Actually, I picked a side and I donated, but even if I didn't, that is still better than supporting the side that's doing the invading.


And I'm sure that money went straight to President Zelinsky and top Ukraine government officials the people who need it. You totally weren't played like a fool buddy. Money well spent.


KingVamp said:


> Because the last guy, who only got elected because of our lopsided system, worked on getting us off oil, so we wouldn't have to rely on it in the first place.


That's sounds more of like a salty opinion more than anything. We have our own oil that we were gonna get without going overseas, and now we have to beg for oil overseas like a bunch of no brained dumbasses.



Xzi said:


> There's always more than one thing going on in the world at a time, that doesn't mean you need to scramble to find excuses for why you shouldn't care when the modern-day equivalent of Hitler starts invading other countries.  That's not a healthy coping mechanism.


Yes but people don't seem to care unless it's either to virtue signal or if it's inconvenient to their views that they can't defend. At this point you and others are still treating Ukraine like a heaven state because you don't want to admit that despite what Putin's doing is wrong, Ukraine is still a shitty place run by corrupt people and your sorry asses got tricked into supporting them.


Xzi said:


> Oh c'mon, now you're only trying to troll me.  "Just following orders," really?  You can't think of any other historical context in which that defense was rejected?


If the Russia military was truly against Putin, none of them would follow him. Yeah, some are, but they're still doing what he says right? He's basically taken over Ukraine, it's just the grift is still going on to keep fools like you to keep giving money and support.


Xzi said:


> "Why should you or I do anything if we can't do everything?"  Because nihilism is useless and cringeworthy in any context.  You're also far too young to be letting it control your life already.


You're still not doing jack shit son, you're not. You can talk about it and acknowledge it, but unless you can do something to physically change what's happening, spouting how much you hate Putin isn't gonna stop him or swarms of soldiers to assassinate him because you want them to isn't gonna make the invasion stop nor will get Putin in jail, it's just not gonna happen, it's just you crying and reee'ing in a room hoping to get virtue points online by other losers who think like you. Wake the fuck up asshole!


----------



## Xzi (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Yes but people don't seem to care unless it's either to virtue signal or if it's inconvenient to their views that they can't defend.


Ah yes, "virtue signalling," otherwise known as having a normal human response to a tragic event.  If you're incapable of that it's just another reason to see a therapist, you don't need to be projecting it onto everybody else.



BitMasterPlus said:


> At this point you and others are still treating Ukraine like a heaven state because you don't want to admit that despite what Putin's doing is wrong, Ukraine is still a shitty place run by corrupt people and your sorry asses got tricked into supporting them.


Ukraine was a country on the rise before Putin's invasion, not on the decline.  Zelenskyy was literally elected on a platform of anti-corruption, and he's also the reason Ukraine's military has been able to put up such fierce resistance.  The only people still trying to declare that this is a "both sides" problem are Putin and anyone he's paying off.  Trump asking a foreign country to do opposition research for him makes Trump corrupt, not the other way around.



BitMasterPlus said:


> If the Russia military was truly against Putin, none of them would follow him. Yeah, some are, but they're still doing what he says right?


The point I was making there clearly went way over your head.  Nazis tried the "just following orders" schtick at the Nuremberg trials after WW2, it was rejected as a bogus defense.  You don't get to murder civilians in cold blood and then later claim you didn't know it was wrong, regardless of whether you were ordered to or not.  And a lot of Russian troops are indeed rejecting those orders, going so far as to sabotage their own vehicles and equipment in defiance of them.



BitMasterPlus said:


> He's basically taken over Ukraine, it's just the grift is still going on to keep fools like you to keep giving money and support.


LMAO the Russians are back at square one, after very temporarily making their way all the way West, they've been driven back and forced to regroup on the Eastern front.  After dragging their asses through Chernobyl and giving hundreds of their own troops radiation poisoning, anyway.  Incompetent doesn't even begin to describe their strategy.



BitMasterPlus said:


> You're still not doing jack shit son, you're not. You can talk about it and acknowledge it


I can (and have) also donated to various causes to help victims of the invasion and restore Ukraine once this is all over.



BitMasterPlus said:


> unless you can do something to physically change what's happening, spouting how much you hate Putin isn't gonna stop him or swarms of soldiers to assassinate him because you want them to isn't gonna make the invasion stop nor will get Putin in jail, it's just not gonna happen


The hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weaponry and equipment the US has been sending to Ukraine sure as hell is helping further that cause.  Putin can never leave Russia again for fear of having to stand trial for his war crimes, so odds are he puts a bullet in his own head once this war has been declared a total victory for Ukraine.  Autocrats like him can't stand the thought of living even a slightly less lavish lifestyle.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Zelenskyy was literally elected on a platform of anti-corruption, and he's also the reason Ukraine's military has been able to put up such fierce resistance.


The GDP (if we can use this measure) was rising after a huge decline in 2014. It still had not reached the level before the coup/revolution.
Zelensky ran on a platform of anti-corruption and making peace with the Donbass oblasts.
Instead, he is a corrupt politician (as the panama papers have shown) who quietly moved his hidden assets to his right-hand man and intensified the attack on the Donbass oblasts.

In an interview Zelensky acknowledged that Ukraine has zero chance to get into NATO (though it would not be publicly stated), yet he pushed for a confrontation. His goal seems to be to destroy Russia economically and he is willing to let his people bleed for it. In that, he is in line with the American elite and you, unfortunately.
There are only two results from this war.
-Russians revisit the horrible 90s (which Americans view as golden times)
-Ukraine accepts neutrality

Zelensky knows this. He could have had the latter options but chose the former. 



Xzi said:


> so odds are he puts a bullet in his own head once this war has been declared a total victory for Ukraine.  Autocrats like him can't stand the thought of living even a slightly less lavish lifestyle.


A total Ukrainian victory would be the Ukrainian take-over of Russia. The Soviets declared victory in Berlin, not Stalingrad. Even after Berlin, it is questionable whether a war that cost 27mio lives can be considered a victory. Perhaps in the sense that the other option would have been large-scale genocide in even higher numbers, but in the case of Ukraine vs Russia it is safe to assume that there would have been less deaths (if any at all) if Ukraine simply had declared neutrality.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In an interview Zelensky acknowledged that Ukraine has zero chance to get into NATO (though it would not be publicly stated), yet he pushed for a confrontation.


He pushed for a confrontation by...existing peacefully?  Yeah I don't think so.  Submitting an application to join NATO, the EU, or any other organization on the planet is not sufficient justification for invasion.  Russia's unprovoked aggression will forever be a part of history books.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> His goal seems to be to destroy Russia economically and he is willing to let his people bleed for it. In that, he is in line with the American elite and you, unfortunately.


Bullshit.  Putin had ample opportunity to simply not invade, and give the American intelligence apparatus a black eye in process by proving their predictions inaccurate.  Clearly that would've resulted in a much better outcome for him and Russia in general, but actions have consequences so here we are.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There are only two results from this war.
> -Russians revisit the horrible 90s (which Americans view as golden times)
> -Ukraine accepts neutrality
> 
> Zelensky knows this. He could have had the latter options but chose the former.


"Neutrality," aka just bend over and accept Putin as Ukraine's new dictator without resistance.  That was never really an option and you know it, the Ukrainians want and need to pick their own leaders.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> A total Ukrainian victory would be the Ukrainian take-over of Russia.


No, a total Ukrainian victory would be pushing the Russians back beyond their own borders and crippling their ability to launch further attacks.  At that point Ukraine can establish security guarantees with other countries/organizations and the world can help them begin to rebuild.  Preferably using money and assets seized from Russian oligarchs.


----------



## SG854 (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Pretty much sums up how I feel at this point. It's actually getting boring talking about Ukraine now, and people are getting more and more retarded with the "support" they're giving to them.  It's just an invasion made by a former KGB now leader of a country lunatic who doesn't want a punch of pussy nations and leaders (NATO) right at his doorstep so he invaded a country run by a glorifies crisis actor (it's true, he was an actor before he became president of Ukraine, look it up). Do I approve of his actions? Hell no. But I'm not gonna care about a conflict halfway across the world when our own nation has a list of problems the size of our own border wall.
> 
> If you wanna support Ukraine so much and hate Putin, then go buy one of those "mass killing" AR-15 rifles you hate so much and go over there and kick some kremlin ass. (Although I advise against doing so, considering how that worked out when redditors decided to join the fight) But just keep stroking your ego to "support Ukraine".
> 
> ...



The logic that we don't care about other issues in the world means we shouldn't care Ukraine or are fake about other issues is not very good logic.

Caring about something is better then caring about nothing even if other issues are not talked about at the moment. Its still doing positive somewhere. Any little bit helps. Something is better then nothing. There is so many issues in the world we can only talk about things one at a time.


And I talked about the Uyghurs months ago. So to say no one cares about those topics is not true.


----------



## SG854 (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And hypocritism doesn't excuse caring about issues that's convenient for you.


Fuck You for saying that we only care about issues that's convenient for us. Did you, you know, ask what issues we care about. Instead of assuming we don't care.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ah yes, "virtue signalling," otherwise known as having a normal human response to a tragic event.  If you're incapable of that it's just another reason to see a therapist, you don't need to be projecting it onto everybody else.


That's not what virtue singling is, but you wouldn't know that unless you opened a damn dictionary. You're not having a "normal human response to a tragic event", you're virtue signaling, pretending to care so you can feel better about yourself. You're just fooling yourself into caring about something out of your control and lack of knowledge of the situation by spreading hate fuck messages about Putin. I don't like him nor what he's doing, but I'm not losing sleep over it nor do I have a fascination with wanting him dead. If he deserves to be killed for all the shit he's done, then a whole lot of people deserve to die just as him for the same and worse.


Xzi said:


> Ukraine was a country on the rise before Putin's invasion, not on the decline.  Zelenskyy was literally elected on a platform of anti-corruption, and he's also the reason Ukraine's military has been able to put up such fierce resistance.  The only people still trying to declare that this is a "both sides" problem are Putin and anyone he's paying off.  Trump asking a foreign country to do opposition research for him makes Trump corrupt, not the other way around.


Doesn't matter if Ukraine was rising or falling, the point is they're run by a corrupt ass government. Oh Zelenskyy said he was for anti-corruption? Of course he wouldn't lie about that. No one ever lies in order to get what they want. It depends on the person, but uh, yeah, a person can lie to get into a position of power. People have done that since the first ever power structure was created by a group of people on this planet. And Putin is not paying me to say any of this, unless I missed my check he sent me in the mail, I'm getting exactly zero dollars for saying both sides are corrupt, which they are, but for whatever reason people don't want to see that, probably because they too stubborn or too brainwashed to admit they might be a little wrong about Ukraine. Corruption or no corruption, Putin shouldn't have invaded in the first place, but people just refuse to admit that Ukraine is another corrupt shit hole.


Xzi said:


> The point I was making there clearly went way over your head.  Nazis tried the "just following orders" schtick at the Nuremberg trials after WW2, it was rejected as a bogus defense.  You don't get to murder civilians in cold blood and then later claim you didn't know it was wrong, regardless of whether you were ordered to or not.  And a lot of Russian troops are indeed rejecting those orders, going so far as to sabotage their own vehicles and equipment in defiance of them.


So then who is killing civilians over there? You admitting Ukraine is killing civilians in order to set up the Russian soldiers for more empathy for other nations? In conflicts and wars, civilians always get caught up in one way or another, that's the unfortunate truth and I pray the remaining civilians get out safe, but I guess orders or no orders, both sides are clearly killing people in one way or another.


Xzi said:


> LMAO the Russians are back at square one, after very temporarily making their way all the way West, they've been driven back and forced to regroup on the Eastern front.  After dragging their asses through Chernobyl and giving hundreds of their own troops radiation poisoning, anyway.  Incompetent doesn't even begin to describe their strategy.


If that was true they would've either stopped or completely collapsed by now, but they're not, they're becoming more self sufficient, effectively strengthening them. What are you gonna say when the full fruits of their labor come to light? "Oh yeah, Russia's still collapsing. Don't listen or see that Russia's economy is recovering and the citizens getting stronger, that's clear misinformation. Even though they're thriving, Russia's officially collapsed because the mainstream media that clearly never lies told me so." Even though the invasion clearly didn't go as planned, despite the set backs, Putin is not backing down and will take Ukraine at any cost. That's just the type of guy he is.


Xzi said:


> I can (and have) also donated to various causes to help victims of the invasion and restore Ukraine once this is all over.


Aaaaand you just admitted to getting ripped off, since that money is not going to the victims, and if it is, it's only a small percentage of it. But I'm sure the government completely appreciates you filling their pockets some more. Send more cash. Sell your house and the shirt off your back and send the money you make from it to them. It's all for the Ukraine people, after all. So effectively, you've done less than nothing. You bitch and moan and willingly get yourself ripped off. It's almost funny really.


Xzi said:


> The hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weaponry and equipment the US has been sending to Ukraine sure as hell is helping further that cause.  Putin can never leave Russia again for fear of having to stand trial for his war crimes, so odds are he puts a bullet in his own head once this war has been declared a total victory for Ukraine.  Autocrats like him can't stand the thought of living even a slightly less lavish lifestyle.


Oh yeah, I can hear Putin pissing his pants in fear right now. If we sent them such good equipment, then there wouldn't be negotiations with Zelenskyy and Putin right now to end it, it would already be over since our equipment is more advanced than the Russians, but this boring conflict is still going on. Putin isn't going anywhere until this invasion is over, and he'll leave his country for one reason or another and no one is going to touch him or charge him with war crimes. Unlike the movies, the bad guys in real life never face consequences, otherwise almost all the politicians in the world would be in jail right now for whatever serious crimes they've committed. He'll fight anyone head on if anyone tries to go after him, with backing from China most likely, depending on how this goes, because as I said before, he ain't a punk, he'll look you right in the face as he sends his forces after you. You may think I'm saying all this because I "support Putin", but there's a difference between compliments and analyzing how dangerous one person can be. Hitler was a military genius and made Germany one of the strongest nations of it's time before and until the end of WWII. Does that mean I love Hitler and wishes he was back? Hell no, he also was a dangerous and evil man and I hope he's burning in hell. I like how you can't acknowledge how dangerous an enemy is without some idiot interpreting it as meaning they want to fuck them. Underestimate your enemy and you will regret it. You and many others underestimate how sneaky Putin is because you and others can't get over whatever hate boner you have against him and don't want to see that Putin isn't gonna take any shit from punks inside or outside his country and won't stop until he has full control over Ukraine. Cool your arrogance and actually see what's happening.

God damn that was long. I hate typing long ass essays that will go nowhere to people too stubborn and stupid to see any big picture or common sense.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

SG854 said:


> The logic that we don't care about other issues in the world means we shouldn't care Ukraine or are fake about other issues is not very good logic.
> 
> Caring about something is better then caring about nothing even if other issues are not talked about at the moment. Its still doing positive somewhere. Any little bit helps. Something is better then nothing. There is so many issues in the world we can only talk about things one at a time.
> 
> ...


No, I said you choose the issues to care about when it's convenient for you and ignore others when it's not. Your logic is to stay safe and cozy in your house while you put "I stand with Ukraine" in your twitter bio and feel like you did something, which you didn't. You and others only care to make yourselves feel better. You effectively fooled yourself so you're not ousted and being part of the in crowd to hate Putin. Maybe you do care a little? Since loss of human life due to certain circumstances is disheartening to hear, but I know people like you, I've met them all over, and you might care about it a little, it's mostly just a facade since you won't actually do anything about it. Go over there and help Ukraine if you feel so strongly about it. You don't even have to fight, just provide aid to injured civilians, but I think you'd rather stay inside in your comfy couch and be safe as you scroll through twitter reading about the situation and going, "Oh gee, that's bad. Let me express to a bunch of people who won't care about an opinion of a nobody just so I can feel good about myself." And we can talk about multiple things at a time, but even if you talked about a topic months ago, you still did nothing then, and you're doing nothing now. Sharing these stories is good to bring awareness, but I'm not gonna get lectured by a couple of spineless punks who pretend to care to get clout online. You'll say "Oh no, that's bad." then quickly move on to the next topic, only bringing up previous topics if it just so happens to come up, but don't act like you're doing anything by just commenting about it. You can talk about it, but it doesn't make you or any one else more virtuous or a rebel for freedom for doing so.


SG854 said:


> Fuck You for saying that we only care about issues that's convenient for us. Did you, you know, ask what issues we care about. Instead of assuming we don't care.


It's the truth, and the truth always hurts. Not my fault people choose to be in denial. And fuck me? Eat my ass you hypocritical coward. I don't have to take insults from some asshole nobody on the internet. Go back to watching gay porn after you tell everyone you stand with Ukraine as you do *absolutely fucking nothing *or caring about whatever issue is convenient for your sorry ass.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You effectively fooled yourself so you're not ousted and being part of the in crowd to hate Putin.


who would be ousting who? If the majority of people agree that someone did something wrong (invasion) then they aren't going to be "ousted" for it unless some person a minority disagrees with that decision... like you.
If anything...
you just ousted yourself as a Putin supporter, though please, go on and continue talking.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> who would be ousting who? If the majority of people agree that someone did something wrong (invasion) then they aren't going to be "ousted" for it unless some person a minority disagrees with that decision... like you.
> If anything...
> you just ousted yourself as a Putin supporter, though please, go on and continue talking.


You clearly have read nothing in my posts, so I'm not gonna waste too much of my breath on your idiocy and lack of ability to read. I don't have to be on anyone's side but my own if I choose. Go back to sucking all the dicks in Ukraine to raise support for them for all I care. Being a "Putin supporter" or a Kremlin agent is becoming more and more like a baseless, empty insult that means nothing, like the overuse of "racist" and "sexist" that have been used to death to try to discredit a person when they have nothing substantial to argue about. Stick and stones can't break my bones, and people's insults from strangers I'll never meet face to face don't mean shit to me.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You clearly have read nothing in my posts, so I'm not gonna waste too much of my breath on your idiocy and lack of ability to read. I don't have to be on anyone's side but my own if I choose. Go back to sucking all the dicks in Ukraine to raise support for them for all I care.


No I read the entire back and forth. And you know what I read? the finest word salad I have ever seen yet.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Go back to watching gay porn after you tell everyone you stand with Ukraine as you do *absolutely fucking nothing *or caring about whatever issue is convenient for your sorry ass.


Oh boy, so here comes the homophobia too! What does being gay have to do with Ukraine?


BitMasterPlus said:


> Being a "Putin supporter" or a Kremlin agent is becoming more and more like a baseless, empty insult that means nothing


is it really that baseless? Here you are associating "gay" as a negative connotation, with Ukraine, and that "sucking Ukraine's dick"
This example you just did right now. Do I really need to give a giantic full blown list of EVERYTHING you've said that is pro Putin, or anti Ukraine? Or do you just hate when people understand your words and you get called out for it. And in a attempt to "win" the argument, you come back screaming and whining trying to claim that's what you didn't say.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

snipped


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> No I read the entire back and forth. And you know what I read? the finest word salad I have ever seen yet.


"Too many words, brain cannot compute."


Nothereed said:


> Oh boy, so here comes the homophobia too! What does being gay have to do with Ukraine?


"Waaah waaah homophobia!" I'll use any damn insult I like, so go cry in the closet for all I care. I don't what gayness has to do with Ukraine, but I know trans people are being forced to fight in the army despite claiming they're women. Isn't that transphobia?



Nothereed said:


> is it really that baseless? Here you are associating "gay" as a negative connotation, with Ukraine, and that "sucking Ukraine's dick"
> This example you just did right now. Do I really need to give a giantic full blown list of EVERYTHING you've said that is pro Putin, or anti Ukraine?


Yes it is baseless, and don't have the brain power from what you've demonstrated to make any kind of list I ain't gonna read because continuing this would be pointless. I don't give a fuck what you and your pea brain thinks, and if you have a problem with how I use "gay", good. People nowadays can take their too sensitive asses and go fuck themselves as I say what I want and how I want. Oh look! Another homophobia comment! Call the police!


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> "Too many words, brain cannot compute."
> 
> "Waaah waaah homophobia!" I'll use any damn insult I like, so go cry in the closet for all I care. I don't what gayness has to do with Ukraine, but I know trans people are being forced to fight in the army despite claiming they're women. Isn't that transphobia?
> 
> ...


"angry man child noises"
On the side note. if you really didn't care, why the response? after all


BitMasterPlus said:


> I don't give a fuck what you and your pea brain thinks


if you didn't give a fuck, you wouldn't have read what I said or bothered to respond.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> "angry man child noises"


Yes, that describes you perfectly.


Nothereed said:


> On the side note. if you really didn't care, why the response? after all
> 
> if you didn't give a fuck, you wouldn't have read what I said or bothered to respond.


Guess I'm secretly a masochist and like talking to stupid people because I hate myself, I dunno  To respond or not to respond in an internet argument, that is the question.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> "Too many words, brain cannot compute."


nah, look up word salad. Your arguments are incredible unintelligible,your seemingly throwing everything at the wall, and when someone points out an issue with your argument, you proceed to then throw a tantrum about how people misread your comment.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> nah, look up word salad. Your arguments are incredible unintelligible,your seemingly throwing everything at the wall, and when someone points out an issue with your argument, you proceed to then throw a tantrum about how people misread your comment.


Sorry if idiots can't read long comments they themselves like to post. I'll try to keep it simple from now on.

You stupid.

There, better?


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> who would be ousting who? If the majority of people agree that someone did something wrong (invasion) then they aren't going to be "ousted" for it unless some person a minority disagrees with that decision... like you.
> If anything...
> you just ousted yourself as a Putin supporter, though please, go on and continue talking.





Nothereed said:


> No I read the entire back and forth. And you know what I read? the finest word salad I have ever seen yet.
> 
> Oh boy, so here comes the homophobia too! What does being gay have to do with Ukraine?
> 
> ...





BitMasterPlus said:


> Yes, that describes you perfectly.


yeah idk chief. I sound pretty chill, not cursing at you or insulting you, giving decent reasoning...
now let's take a look at you.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Yes it is baseless, and don't have the brain power from what you've demonstrated to make any kind of list I ain't gonna read because continuing this would be pointless. I don't give a fuck what you and your pea brain thinks, and if you have a problem with how I use "gay", good. People nowadays can take their too sensitive asses and go fuck themselves as I say what I want and how I want. Oh look! Another homophobia comment! Call the police!





BitMasterPlus said:


> You clearly have read nothing in my posts, so I'm not gonna waste too much of my breath on your idiocy and lack of ability to read. I don't have to be on anyone's side but my own if I choose. Go back to sucking all the dicks in Ukraine to raise support for them for all I care. Being a "Putin supporter" or a Kremlin agent is becoming more and more like a baseless, empty insult that means nothing, like the overuse of "racist" and "sexist" that have been used to death to try to discredit a person when they have nothing substantial to argue about. Stick and stones can't break my bones, and people's insults from strangers I'll never meet face to face don't mean shit to me.


How many "fuck" can I read here. How many times have you insulted me? I haven't insulted you... until after you insulted me of course lol
Sounds like a manchild problem


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> yeah idk chief. I sound pretty chill, not cursing at you or insulting you, giving decent reasoning...
> now let's take a look at you.
> 
> 
> ...


Just the way I talk sometimes. This isn't a formal debate or a serious discussion, so I don't have to watch what I say to random peeps online. And I'm also sick of ignorant people being so ignorant and telling others how to run their lives when they have zero standing to do so. And yeah, you would know what a manchild by looking in the mirror everyday.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Go back to watching gay porn after you tell everyone you stand with Ukraine as you do *absolutely fucking nothing *or caring about whatever issue is convenient for your sorry ass.


you continuing to be a angry manchild


BitMasterPlus said:


> Doesn't matter if Ukraine was rising or falling, the point is they're run by a corrupt ass government.


here's you being anti Ukraine, claiming they are corrupt (when they are not)


BitMasterPlus said:


> That's not what virtue singling is, but you wouldn't know that unless you opened a damn dictionary. You're not having a "normal human response to a tragic event", you're virtue signaling, pretending to care so you can feel better about yourself.





BitMasterPlus said:


> Yes but people don't seem to care unless it's either to virtue signal or if it's inconvenient to their views that they can't defend.


the word salad moment.  where you seemingly can't comprehend that people can actually give 3 fucks about something that doesn't affect them personally. Xzi responses with this statement below. But most importantly you claim that's not what virtue signaling is... while calling it (people caring about something that doesn't affect them personally) virtue signaling.


Xzi said:


> Ah yes, "virtue signalling," otherwise known as having a normal human response to a tragic event. If you're incapable of that it's just another reason to see a therapist, you don't need to be projecting it onto everybody else.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Just the way I talk sometimes. This isn't a formal debate or a serious discussion, so I don't have to watch what I say to random peeps online. And I'm also sick of ignorant people being so ignorant and telling others how to run their lives when they have zero standing to do so. And yeah, you would know what a manchild by looking in the mirror everyday.


So... let me get this straight. From every interaction I have seen, in which you do this, that it just _sounds_ like an angry manchild, but actually isn't?
So at what point is the line between not a angry manchild and one that does end and start? Because clearly to everyone at this point, with how angry and pissed your tone is. You sound like a angry manchild, act like one, so therefore must be one, and oh, look, another insult.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You're not having a "normal human response to a tragic event", you're virtue signaling, pretending to care so you can feel better about yourself.


I don't have to _pretend_ to care because as a man I don't feel the need to hide or mask my thoughts and/or feelings on very serious issues such as these. Hopefully one day you'll be in a better place mentally and emotionally so you can acknowledge that even events which don't directly impact you still have an overall impact and a butterfly effect.



BitMasterPlus said:


> You're just fooling yourself into caring about something out of your control and lack of knowledge of the situation by spreading hate fuck messages about Putin. I don't like him nor what he's doing, but I'm not losing sleep over it nor do I have a fascination with wanting him dead. If he deserves to be killed for all the shit he's done, then a whole lot of people deserve to die just as him for the same and worse.


You're right, GWB and Dick Cheney are still alive.  War crimes are war crimes (insert Mr. Incredible meme).  I don't have to "spread" anger at Putin, everybody with half a heart and half a brain already hates him or at the very least strongly dislikes him.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Doesn't matter if Ukraine was rising or falling, the point is they're run by a corrupt ass government. Oh Zelenskyy said he was for anti-corruption? Of course he wouldn't lie about that. No one ever lies in order to get what they want. It depends on the person, but uh, yeah, a person can lie to get into a position of power. People have done that since the first ever power structure was created by a group of people on this planet.


You're the one making the accusation of corruption, the burden of proof is on you.  This whole discussion is also irrelevant to the invasion, I'd support Ukraine in defending their home country from imperialist invaders regardless.



BitMasterPlus said:


> So then who is killing civilians over there? You admitting Ukraine is killing civilians in order to set up the Russian soldiers for more empathy for other nations? In conflicts and wars, civilians always get caught up in one way or another, that's the unfortunate truth and I pray the remaining civilians get out safe, but I guess orders or no orders, both sides are clearly killing people in one way or another.


Oh fuck off.  Obviously I didn't say the entire Russian military was defecting or fleeing, there are plenty of proud ultra-nationalists (read: Nazis) among them who will gladly follow orders to execute civilians.  And we aren't talking about "caught in the crossfire," we're talking about direct orders to brutalize civilians and (mostly) ignore uniformed Ukrainian combatants.  I've seen video of a fucking tank shelling a Ukrainian civilian on a fucking bicycle.



BitMasterPlus said:


> If that was true they would've either stopped or completely collapsed by now, but they're not, they're becoming more self sufficient, effectively strengthening them. What are you gonna say when the full fruits of their labor come to light? "Oh yeah, Russia's still collapsing. Don't listen or see that Russia's economy is recovering and the citizens getting stronger, that's clear misinformation. Even though they're thriving, Russia's officially collapsed because the mainstream media that clearly never lies told me so." Even though the invasion clearly didn't go as planned, despite the set backs, Putin is not backing down and will take Ukraine at any cost. That's just the type of guy he is.


JFC, Russia's economy will recover once they pull back and stop with the ethnic cleansing and/or attempted genocide.  I'm not worried about it until then.  All the smartest and most talented Russians are leaving the country, because they're also strongly against the war and that can get you arrested there.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Aaaaand you just admitted to getting ripped off, since that money is not going to the victims, and if it is, it's only a small percentage of it. But I'm sure the government completely appreciates you filling their pockets some more. Send more cash. Sell your house and the shirt off your back and send the money you make from it to them. It's all for the Ukraine people, after all. So effectively, you've done less than nothing.


OK doomer, there's that patented nihilism again.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Putin isn't going anywhere until this invasion is over, and he'll leave his country for one reason or another and no one is going to touch him or charge him with war crimes.


He's wanted for war crimes the world over, and will stand trial at an international court if he's ever stupid enough to step outside of Russia again.  He's been hiding in a bunker almost the entirety of the last 40 days.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Hitler was a military genius and made Germany one of the strongest nations of it's time before and until the end of WWII. Does that mean I love Hitler and wishes he was back? Hell no, he also was a dangerous and evil man and I hope he's burning in hell. I like how you can't acknowledge how dangerous an enemy is without some idiot interpreting it as meaning they want to fuck them. Underestimate your enemy and you will regret it. You and many others underestimate how sneaky Putin is because you and others can't get over whatever hate boner you have against him and don't want to see that Putin isn't gonna take any shit from punks inside or outside his country and won't stop until he has full control over Ukraine. Cool your arrogance and actually see what's happening.


Hitler was also on meth, thus his slow decline into absolute madness, but yes, point taken.  That said, this scenario is nothing like the Nazis capturing a good portion of Europe, as Putin has failed to capture even a single city for any extended period of time.  Additionally, Putin has shown his entire hand, and now the world knows that Russia's military truly isn't up to snuff.  They're losing to a much smaller force.

If Russia ever does fully capture Ukraine, it would be at the cost of far too many lives on both sides, and Putin would have created an entire generation of justified freedom fighters.  Or as Russia would refer to them, "terrorists."  The Russian economy would also never recover unless they were essentially taken over by the Chinese, at which point the few people foolish enough to have stuck around get to live through a whole new type of surveillance state hell.



BitMasterPlus said:


> God damn that was long. I hate typing long ass essays that will go nowhere to people too stubborn and stupid to see any big picture or common sense.


You're telling me...


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 10, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> So... let me get this straight. From every interaction I have seen, in which you do this, that it just _sounds_ like an angry manchild, but actually isn't?
> So at what point is the line between not a angry manchild and one that does end and start? Because clearly to everyone at this point, with how angry and pissed your tone is. You sound like a angry manchild, act like one, so therefore must be one, and oh, look, another insult.


Yeah yeah keep reaching and also insulting as well. Yeah, I do it, and so do many others on this website, so it's not like it's a new thing. I think I'm finally completely disinterested in this conversation now since it's going nowhere, so happy day or night to you manchild.


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Yeah yeah keep reaching and also insulting as well. Yeah, I do it, and so do many others on this website, so it's not like it's a new thing. I think I'm finally completely disinterested in this conversation now since it's going nowhere, so happy day or night to you manchild.


Oh your going somewhere child. Infact your going to become the entire circus, and I have the pop corn with everyone else.


----------



## SG854 (Apr 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> No, I said you choose the issues to care about when it's convenient for you and ignore others when it's not. Your logic is to stay safe and cozy in your house while you put "I stand with Ukraine" in your twitter bio and feel like you did something, which you didn't. You and others only care to make yourselves feel better. You effectively fooled yourself so you're not ousted and being part of the in crowd to hate Putin. Maybe you do care a little? Since loss of human life due to certain circumstances is disheartening to hear, but I know people like you, I've met them all over, and you might care about it a little, it's mostly just a facade since you won't actually do anything about it. Go over there and help Ukraine if you feel so strongly about it. You don't even have to fight, just provide aid to injured civilians, but I think you'd rather stay inside in your comfy couch and be safe as you scroll through twitter reading about the situation and going, "Oh gee, that's bad. Let me express to a bunch of people who won't care about an opinion of a nobody just so I can feel good about myself." And we can talk about multiple things at a time, but even if you talked about a topic months ago, you still did nothing then, and you're doing nothing now. Sharing these stories is good to bring awareness, but I'm not gonna get lectured by a couple of spineless punks who pretend to care to get clout online. You'll say "Oh no, that's bad." then quickly move on to the next topic, only bringing up previous topics if it just so happens to come up, but don't act like you're doing anything by just commenting about it. You can talk about it, but it doesn't make you or any one else more virtuous or a rebel for freedom for doing so.
> 
> It's the truth, and the truth always hurts. Not my fault people choose to be in denial. And fuck me? Eat my ass you hypocritical coward. I don't have to take insults from some asshole nobody on the internet. Go back to watching gay porn after you tell everyone you stand with Ukraine as you do *absolutely fucking nothing *or caring about whatever issue is convenient for your sorry ass.


The Truth? What are you talking about lol. I'm not hurt because of that. I'm not hurt at all. I'm saying fuck you for saying I don't care about these issues when I actually talked about them.

I do my part by paying taxes and my tax dollars are going out to help Ukranian's. So fuck you for saying I don't do anything. I am doing something idiot.


----------



## KingVamp (Apr 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> OK doomer, there's that patented nihilism again.


1) Gets mad at you not doing anything.
2) Also gets mad at you for doing something.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 10, 2022)

SG854 said:


> The Truth? What are you talking about lol. I'm not hurt because of that. I'm saying fuck you for saying I don't care about these issues when I actually talked about them.
> 
> I do my part by paying taxes and my tax dollars are going out to help Ukranian's. So fuck you for saying I don't do anything. I am doing something idiot.


If you support Ukraine by paying taxes, you also supported the Iraq war (if your country was part of the coalition of the willing) and are not an innocent civilian (which is exactly the logic terrorists follow when they kill civilians btw).


----------



## SG854 (Apr 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you support Ukraine by paying taxes, you also supported the Iraq war (if your country was part of the coalition of the willing) and are not an innocent civilian (which is exactly the logic terrorists follow when they kill civilians btw).


Sometimes my taxes go where I don't want it go. I do not support the Iraq war. But I support Ukraine.


----------



## AncientBoi (Apr 10, 2022)

*BACKOFF RUSSIA !



*


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 10, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I do not support the Iraq war.


But you do according to your logic. (which I am not disputing, just be consistent, man)


----------



## SG854 (Apr 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> But you do according to your logic. (which I am not disputing, just be consistent, man)


I'm telling you right now I do not like my tax dollars going to the Iraq war so I do not support it.

It's the government that is making this choice not me. Blame them. But I do support the government using my hard earned dollars to support Ukraine's fight.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 10, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I'm telling you right now I do not like my tax dollars going to the Iraq war so I do not support it.
> 
> It's the government that is making this choice not me. Blame them. But I do support the government using my hard earned dollars to support Ukraine's fight.


Stop playing semantics and use some logic.
You were mad somebody told you that you were doing nothing.
So you said "I pay my taxes" (therefore you support Ukraine indirectly through your government)
IF THAT IS TRUE, then you also support wars your government starts.
But suddenly use switch to the other meaning of "support" by merely referring to the non-physical meaning.

Be a man and take back your first statement or accept the implications. Don´t play these games.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 11, 2022)

SG854 said:


> The Truth? What are you talking about lol. I'm not hurt because of that. I'm not hurt at all. I'm saying fuck you for saying I don't care about these issues when I actually talked about them.
> 
> I do my part by paying taxes and my tax dollars are going out to help Ukranian's. So fuck you for saying I don't do anything. I am doing something idiot.


No you ain't.



KingVamp said:


> 1) Gets mad at you not doing anything.
> 2) Also gets mad at you for doing something.


Who said I was mad? I ain't mad, only annoyed at the clueless Ukraine shills who keep telling everyone how great they are by getting duped into giving money and saying Putin should be assassinated, as if they'd ever have the balls to do it themselves.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Apr 11, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Oh your going somewhere child. Infact your going to become the entire circus, and I have the pop corn with everyone else.


Sounds like you have a sad and shallow life if you're going to be waiting for one random guy on the internet to supposedly fail.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Sounds like you have a sad and shallow life if you're going to be waiting for one random guy on the internet to supposedly fail.


Lol for someone crying bout this thread is boring and don’t have Ill feelings of Ukraine.. you sure sound like a paid troll


----------



## djpannda (Apr 11, 2022)

The Russian “brain drain” is real

Not really talking bout NFKRZ, but the Thousands upon thousands of Young Russians leaving Russia in mass ..to the point  Georgia, Uzbekistan, kazakhstan has seen a ridiculous uptick in legal and illegal Russian escaping the iron curtain 


Youre seeing Russia turn in to North Korea in real time


----------



## kenlee168 (Apr 11, 2022)

good old days


----------



## Coto (Apr 11, 2022)

American Volunteers abandoned by the 'supposed help' from the USA government


----------



## spoggi (Apr 11, 2022)

Coto said:


> American Volunteers abandoned by the 'supposed help' from the USA government



Scarry shit 
With that i mean it's scarry that he is practically on his own relaying on his goverment


----------



## spoggi (Apr 11, 2022)

When you can see evil in a soldier's eye then he is evil


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2022)

djpannda said:


> The Russian “brain drain” is real
> 
> Not really talking bout NFKRZ, but the Thousands upon thousands of Young Russians leaving Russia in mass ..to the point  Georgia, Uzbekistan, kazakhstan has seen a ridiculous uptick in legal and illegal Russian escaping the iron curtain
> 
> ...


In all fairness, Russia was always messed up. When the Iron Curtain fell and the U.S.S.R crumbled, all Soviet states and satellites experienced a very brief moment of freedom and prosperity. Some of those states later leaned either into the future, like the Czech Republic, Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Poland etc., or into the past, like Russia or Belarus. After Yeltsin rapidly introduced a capitalist economy, it didn’t come without some sacrifices - economic freedom has a price. Large swathes of the population wanted quick solutions - that’s where Putin’s never-ending reign comes into play. I think the key failing in those states was picking political figures deeply entrenched in the previous system, people who were aiming at consolidating power rather than pushing for actual reform. I can’t help but wonder how Russia would’ve looked like if somebody else won the 2000 election. Putin was a bad egg from the start, but Russians were enamoured by the idea of a powerful state, in part because they missed the one that crumbled.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 11, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Russians were enamoured by the idea of a powerful state, in part because they missed the one that crumbled.


Although people were not considering Russia as a modern powerhouse. The sanctions and tighting control over civil pop. has destroyed any chance for real growth.


well I think its more of two different camps.
1.) you have the Old Soviet head ( Putin, Shoigu etc) There are people who Missing the Power, not of USSR itself but the Internal power they felt that no-one questioned or spoke up.
2.)30-40year olds, who kept hearing ( or vaguely remember) stories about the Glory of USSR, they were too young to understand why it failed and the hardship that led to it.

those two Group have been pushing a Fantasy of the Rise of USSR 2.0. but failed to understand the downsides ( brain drain, sactions . I think this will be the end of the Russia Fed. itself.


----------



## spoggi (Apr 11, 2022)

djpannda said:


> The Russian “brain drain” is real
> 
> Not really talking bout NFKRZ, but the Thousands upon thousands of Young Russians leaving Russia in mass ..to the point  Georgia, Uzbekistan, kazakhstan has seen a ridiculous uptick in legal and illegal Russian escaping the iron curtain
> 
> ...



It's so wrong to teach kids from kindergarden to hate
those who bare the responsibility are surely going to hell


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Although people were not considering Russia as a modern powerhouse. The sanctions and tighting control over civil pop. has destroyed any chance for real growth.
> 
> well I think its more of two different camps.
> 1.) you have the Old Soviet head ( Putin, Shoigu etc) There are people who Missing the Power, not of USSR itself but the Internal power they felt that no-one questioned or spoke up.
> ...


This is a pendulum swing. You need to fall down before you can get back up. Russia “got up” from the collapse of the U.S.S.R, but only partially. The system has changed, but not the people. It’s not just 20-40 year olds who miss the “good old days”, there’s plenty of old folks who feel displaced because the connections they used to have and the party membership they used to take advantage of no longer gave them benefits. Plenty of people who were displaced out of industries that used to be artificially propped up, heavy industry in particular. People who used to be wealthy and respectable got downgraded to the working class, and vice versa - people who used to be scorned for their “useless degrees” were elevated to higher levels of society. People who seized the opportunity to engage in private ventures in the 90’ties quickly raised to prominence, in a true “from rags to riches” fashion, and within only two, three decades. It was a time of turmoil in all post-Soviet states - I should know, I witnessed it. The business environment from the time when I was a child was very different than what it is now, and the same changes likely took place in Russia. The difference is that Poles leaned into them whereas Russians feared change - they wanted a powerful state of Russia and that’s what they got. The problem is that a state like that wears boots, ones that are always on the lookout for a neck to step on.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 11, 2022)

ok... I Guess this is a diff issue, within the Russian Community.
Another Russian speaking about the Brain Drain live as I post this. (did not plan this)

Nice reminder that IF you meet new Russians IRL, to greet them nicely as they probably left Russia for a reason


----------



## Coto (Apr 11, 2022)

Coto said:


> American Volunteers abandoned by the 'supposed help' from the USA government




So that's the reason:

Biden insist on disarming USA citizens.....

Same as our chilean politicians (a trend recurring in Mexico's UN back in 2013) then now through an hijacked United Nations's chilean Socialist Constitution


----------



## smf (Apr 11, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Because we don't have programs or techniques to edit and manipulate pictures nowadays, even satellite images, right?
> 
> I'm not for Russia nor Ukraine at this point.


You seem to be pretty pro Russia from your posts.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So you said "I pay my taxes" (therefore you support Ukraine indirectly through your government)
> IF THAT IS TRUE, then you also support wars your government starts.


No that is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician's_syllogism

It's also entirely possible for right minded people to support Ukraine, even though there are likely some bad people in Ukraine. Supporting Ukraine doesn't mean that you agree with every thing that anyone from Ukraine has ever done.

That is black and white thinking.



Coto said:


> Biden insist on disarming USA citizens.....


Only criminals.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 11, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I can’t help but wonder how Russia would’ve looked like if somebody else won the 2000 election. Putin was a bad egg from the start, but Russians were enamoured by the idea of a powerful state, in part because they missed the one that crumbled.


Was there ever any chance of that actually happening, though?  Putin was literally willing to kill to manipulate people into voting for him.  I imagine he wasn't the only morally bankrupt holdover that had been trained in covert ops by the KGB.  The obvious first step for Russia should've been barring everybody with any involvement in the Soviet Union from running for office ever again.


----------



## smf (Apr 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Was there ever any chance of that actually happening, though?  Putin was literally willing to kill to manipulate people into voting for him.  I imagine he wasn't the only morally bankrupt holdover that had been trained in covert ops by the KGB.  The obvious first step for Russia should've been barring everybody with any involvement in the Soviet Union from running for office ever again.


Certainly with Putin around, there was no way anyone else was going to win (or survive winning).

If the CIA had dealt with Putin, then I wonder how many others they would have had to deal with before someone better became viable.


----------



## Coto (Apr 11, 2022)

smf said:


> Only criminals.


You know socialists don't really discern between citizens and criminals right?



> *More than that, China Joe Biden handed over $85,000,000,000 worth of American military hardware to the Taliban. Reports indicate that portions of this hardware are already being sold off to Iran and other enemies of the United States.*
> 
> Biden surrendered over 100 combat helicopters, over 200 fixed wing aircraft including 3 C-130’s, almost 10,000 grenade launchers, and 3,012 Humvees.
> 
> *But Biden also handed over a staggering number of personal weapons to the Taliban, too. That list includes 64,363 belt-fed machine guns, 126,295 handguns, 12,692 shotguns, and 358,530 M4 carbines.*





> *You see, the UN Small Arms Treaty isn’t just being pushed by Joe Biden and our political enemies here in America.*
> 
> According to early reports coming out of the UN’s ‘work group’ that met to discuss the treaty in Europe last week, some of the 83 nations that assembled to work on the Arms Treaty included Afghanistan, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Cameroon, and Lebanon.
> 
> *But make no mistake, the real leader behind the UN Small Arms Treaty — the country that is pulling the strings across the globe and maybe inside of our own White House — is China.*


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Was there ever any chance of that actually happening, though?  Putin was literally willing to kill to manipulate people into voting for him.  I imagine he wasn't the only morally bankrupt holdover that had been trained in covert ops by the KGB.  The obvious first step for Russia should've been barring everybody with any involvement in the Soviet Union from running for office ever again.


That’s effectively what we did - there were courts held, with the express intent of investigating each and every prominent figure, whether or not they collaborated with the system, and whether that warranted some kind of punishment or simply public record. The process was called “lustration”, from the Latin “lustratio”. The U.S.S.R was very inefficient, but they kept pretty solid records. You could argue that this process continues even today as more and more files are found every year, often in private hands. People stole them from archives to gain hooks on politicians, others fabricated them in order to destroy reputations. As you might imagine, it’s still a pretty involved forensic process each time a new revelation sees the light of day. The difference with Russia is that they were the “country in charge”, so to speak - they had at least some reasons to think fondly of the past, we have almost none.

As far as Putin is concerned, when he was *first* elected, I think he did have quite a bit of support from the general population. Of course that dwindled over the years, but his spiel of “Russian strongman” really worked on people, even if it was pretend for the most part.


----------



## smf (Apr 11, 2022)

Coto said:


> You know socialists don't really discern between citizens and criminals right?


He was pretty explicit about what he was suggesting.

So all you're doing is arguing that he means something else and then arguing with that.

If that is what we're doing, he was talking in code. It wasn't about guns at all.

ghost guns, because jfk is a ghost and he was shot with a gun.

He was telling qanon that they were right and JFK was coming back. But not to inaugurate Trump, it's to kill him.

Abraham Lincoln is also coming back to be the new ghost president and Elvis Presley is his vice ghost president.

(if it's not obvious, this was a joke).


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 11, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> In all fairness, Russia was always messed up. When the Iron Curtain fell and the U.S.S.R crumbled, all Soviet states and satellites experienced a very brief moment of freedom and prosperity. Some of those states later leaned either into the future, like the Czech Republic, Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Poland etc., or into the past, like Russia or Belarus. After Yeltsin rapidly introduced a capitalist economy, it didn’t come without some sacrifices - economic freedom has a price. Large swathes of the population wanted quick solutions - that’s where Putin’s never-ending reign comes into play. I think the key failing in those states was picking political figures deeply entrenched in the previous system, people who were aiming at consolidating power rather than pushing for actual reform. I can’t help but wonder how Russia would’ve looked like if somebody else won the 2000 election. Putin was a bad egg from the start, but Russians were enamoured by the idea of a powerful state, in part because they missed the one that crumbled.


It has nothing to do with freedom. Russians wanted a strong leadership because they were taken advantage of. They sold their resources for below the price of aquiring them. Putin put a stop to it. The oligarchs everyone likes to talk about, were (to a large extent) the result of rich people buying state-owned assets and becoming super-rich. The people who are depicted as victims and freedom fighters in the west were often criminals, e.g. a a man who took the money of millions of people in an insurance scam. Oligarchs tend to run a country by lobbying (which is bribery), blatant bribery and e.g. NGOs (including the West). Putin did not get rid of all oligarchs as long as they didn´t interfer with his government´s politics. The result is that the oligarchs in Russia do not work as strongly against the people as in e.g. European countries.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 11, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It has nothing to do with freedom. Russians wanted a strong leadership because they were taken advantage of. They sold their resources for below the price of aquiring them. Putin put a stop to it. The oligarchs everyone likes to talk about, were (to a large extent) the result of rich people buying state-owned assets and becoming super-rich. The people who are depicted as victims and freedom fighters in the west were often criminals, e.g. a a man who took the money of millions of people in an insurance scam. Oligarchs tend to run a country by lobbying (which is bribery), blatant bribery and e.g. NGOs (including the West). Putin did not get rid of all oligarchs as long as they didn´t interfer with his government´s politics. The result is that the oligarchs in Russia do not work as strongly against the people as in e.g. European countries.


Good assessment on how oligarchs rose to power in Russia, complete miss on the relationship between big business, government and the people. Russia has easily one of the most corrupt governments out there, in no small part due to the oligarchy being in bed with the state. It’s a holdover from the previous system - all of those people in the upper echelons of society are best buddies with long rap sheets.


----------



## smf (Apr 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Putin put a stop to it. The oligarchs everyone likes to talk about, were (to a large extent) the result of rich people buying state-owned assets and becoming super-rich.


No, he didn't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61028866

Putin's inner circle didn't start off rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suleyman_Kerimov#Early_career


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 12, 2022)

smf said:


> No, he didn't.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61028866
> 
> Putin's inner circle didn't start off rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suleyman_Kerimov#Early_career


The sentence was referring to the previous sentence:
"They sold their resources for below the price of aquiring them"
That´s when he became the enemy of the West.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 12, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Good assessment on how oligarchs rose to power in Russia, complete miss on the relationship between big business, government and the people. Russia has easily one of the most corrupt governments out there, in no small part due to the oligarchy being in bed with the state. It’s a holdover from the previous system - all of those people in the upper echelons of society are best buddies with long rap sheets.


I have not disputed corruption. Russia is heavily influenced by a few super rich, just like the US. It´s just that we call our oligarchs anthropists and billionaires.


----------



## smf (Apr 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The sentence was referring to the previous sentence:
> "They sold their resources for below the price of aquiring them"
> That´s when he became the enemy of the West.


I took it to refer to "Russians wanted a strong leadership because they were taken advantage of."

He became an enemy of the west because of the killings & the disingenous accusations.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

smf said:


> He was pretty explicit about what he was suggesting.
> 
> So all you're doing is arguing that he means something else and then arguing with that.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty bizarre interpretation of what I said. I am from the chilean army. Go read every post i've said because everything's explained in there. And yeah, the last post I wrote pretty much confirms Biden following United Nations civilian disarm of the United States. How can you guess that? Not by fuckery forgery of random concepts as you make it out to be, but because of the entire Latin America subdued to the same UN rules, where Chile takes the lead, being the international satellite of United Nations' Human Rights Watch socialist coup.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> As far as Putin is concerned, when he was *first* elected, I think he did have quite a bit of support from the general population. Of course that dwindled over the years, but his spiel of “Russian strongman” really worked on people, even if it was pretend for the most part.


Yeah it definitely helps win votes when you run on a national security platform and then orchestrate bombings on said nation.  Dunno how that coincidental timing didn't draw more suspicion at the time.



Coto said:


> And yeah, the last post I wrote pretty much confirms Biden following United Nations civilian disarm of the United States.


Republicans have predicted that each and every Democratic president since the 70s would come to seize our guns.  At this point it's nothing but a marketing ploy to get idiots to run out and panic buy guns and ammo at a 300% markup.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 12, 2022)

smf said:


> He became an enemy of the west because of the killings & the disingenous accusations.


You really believe our leaders care about killings?
I will not disturb your dream then.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You really believe our leaders care about killings?
> I will not disturb your dream then.


Of course they care about it when it's a foreign oligarch giving the order to kill.  When it's Exxon Mobil giving the order, not so much.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Republicans have predicted that each and every Democratic president since the 70s would come to seize our guns.  At this point it's nothing but a marketing ploy to get idiots to run out and panic buy guns and ammo at a 300% markup.


USA's constitution method of splitting sovereignty into 50 pieces, yeah would enable that. _But for a Republic things are decided on a single, big paper backed up by a Congress, Senate and Socialism (geopolitics, not just the ideology) across a single big chunk of territory where the president would take the big decisions, later to be approved by them. _

Case point would be Chilean Socialist Party in 1933 where they took over citizens sovereignty and private property in lieu of a socialist republic. Where the state dictated laws, worsening the individual economic output due to individual rights diminished, thus controlling the private property over citizens (same Socialist model would be later replicated by Salvador Allende in 1970, and would be very effective. People really lost the ability to wear guns and defend their property...)


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> _But for a Republic things are decided on a single, big paper backed up by a Congress, Senate and Socialism (geopolitics, not just the ideology) across a single big chunk of territory where the president takes the big decisions later, to be approved by them. _


And?  What indication is there that Democrats are in favor of undertaking an impossible task such as seizing all guns?  They've introduced zero legislation to that effect, and the only president who has at any point seemingly been open to the idea of extrajudicial seizures was Donald Trump.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And?  What indication is there that Democrats are in favor of undertaking an impossible task such as seizing all guns?  They've introduced zero legislation to that effect, and the only president who has at any point seemingly been open to the idea of extrajudicial seizures was Donald Trump.


No. That means what I wrote earlier didn't really work for the Socialist Party of choice, so they decided to lend that task to United Nations, and... well yeah read the last 4 posts I wrote about it.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> No. That means what I wrote earlier didn't really work for the Socialist Party of choice, so they decided to lend that task to United Nations, and... well yeah read the last 2 posts I wrote about it.


A. Socialists are very much against most forms of gun control.  "Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary." - Karl Marx

B. The UN is an ineffectual joke, they couldn't seize candy from a baby.  Any large US city on its own would manage to repel their efforts.  Of course this is just a baseless conspiracy theory on your part, so entertaining it any further would be pointless.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> A. Socialists are very much against gun control in any form.


don't make me laugh , for real


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> don't make me laugh


No, don't make me laugh.  The Democratic party is a center-right, capitalist party through and through.  If you're unable to distinguish them from actual Socialists who want to seize the means of production for the working class, that weakens your credibility by quite a lot.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, don't make me laugh.  The Democratic party is a center-right, capitalist party through and through.  If you're unable to distinguish them from actual Socialists who want to seize the means of production for the working class, that weakens your credibility by quite a lot.


Try to argue with facts rather than feelings next time, lol. (hint: go read about Socialism, what causes it, effects over private property, and how Communist states are born out of that). Marxism is also Socialism


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> Try to argue with facts rather than feelings next time, lol.


LMAO okay bud, guess you don't care if nobody here takes you seriously from now on.  FFS, we don't even have universal healthcare in the US and neither party is interested in implementing it.  But sure why not, we're a Socialist paradise that spends nothing on social services.  



Coto said:


> Marxism is also Socialism


True, so maybe if we ever establish a major Marxist political party in the US, _then_ you'll have a leg to stand on in this argument. Until then, you've kinda backed yourself into a corner.


----------



## smf (Apr 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You really believe our leaders care about killings?
> I will not disturb your dream then.


When listening to what you believe, I really worry about your mental health.

Of course you believe that you are more aware than anyone else, but that is also a sign of a mental health issue.

So let's not pretend that your arguments are valid, just because you believe them.


----------



## smf (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> Try to argue with facts rather than feelings next time, lol. (hint: go read about Socialism, what causes it, effects over private property, and how Communist states are born out of that). Marxism is also Socialism


Hysteria over communism is a great way of controlling the population, so you can steal from them.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 12, 2022)

smf said:


> When listening to what you believe, I really worry about your mental health.
> 
> Of course you believe that you are more aware than anyone else, but that is also a sign of a mental health issue.
> 
> So let's not pretend that your arguments are valid, just because you believe them.


I am not more aware. Only a woke cuck speaks like that.
I just don´t have a Disney interpretation of what Western governments say.
If you think Western governments care about the lives of civilians, let me ask you a few questions:
a) Why are they okay with letting Afghani children starve? At least they could unfreeze the Afghani funds.
b) Why are they okay with supporting the bombing of people in Yemen? (biggest humanitarian crisis in the world for many years now)
c) Why was former Secretary of State Albright okay with killing half a million Iraqi children?
"The 60 Minutes interviewer, Leslie Stahl, asked Albright: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
*Former Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, replied: "I think this is a very hard choice. But the price–we think the price is worth it." * (May, 1996)
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Articles/madalbright.html
(or look for the youtube video of this interview)

Western governments don´t give a shit about how many Ukrainians die. They are eager to inflict pain on "rogue nations" or "the axis of evil" and are willing to sacrifice any number of people.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Western governments don´t give a shit about how many Ukrainians die.


Firstly, Western governments are made up of people with individual thoughts and opinions.  Secondly, what difference does it really make?  Imperialism and unprovoked aggression from a world superpower is unequivocally wrong and evil in every way.  And yes, that includes what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, among many other examples.  Whataboutism doesn't change the facts of what's happened to Ukraine and what's still happening now.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Firstly, Western governments are made up of people with individual thoughts and opinions.  Secondly, what difference does it really make?  Imperialism and unprovoked aggression from a world superpower is unequivocally wrong and evil in every way.  And yes, that includes what the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, among many other examples.


I am not arguing about differences. I am responding to the smf´s Hollywood view of the world.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

smf said:


> Hysteria over communism is a great way of controlling the population, so you can steal from them.


You have a serious cognitive dissonance do you?  I've already explained some posts back Chile is a Republic, and has been target of Socialist coups at least three times

edit:
Chemical weapons target Ukraine territory now


----------



## djpannda (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> You have a serious cognitive dissonance do you?  I've already explained some posts back Chile is a Republic, and has been target of Socialist coups at least three times
> 
> edit:
> Chemical weapons target Ukraine territory now



South America's view is  different from the rest of the world. As South America has a ridiculous Amount of Coup in its history. The Fear of a Communist Coup is is a really possibility in South America ( looks at the Current President of Peru) but That Fear is not really shared in other parts of the world


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

exactly. Also be aware of United Nations disarm treaty because that took Chile's Armed Forces subdued to China, and has been a replica enactment law where all it takes is a legislation, spreads like a virus across local countries around here and enables China to decide wether your country should be armed or not.


----------



## smf (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> You have a serious cognitive dissonance do you?  I've already explained some posts back Chile is a Republic, and has been target of Socialist coups at least three times


And? Chile is not the USA, what is your point?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am not arguing about differences. I am responding to the smf´s Hollywood view of the world.


I've literally no idea what you're going on about there.

If western governments don't care about ukraine, then what deep conspiracy do you think is causing them to take action that are causing themselves harm?


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, don't make me laugh.  The Democratic party is a center-right, capitalist party through and through.  If you're unable to distinguish them from actual Socialists who want to seize the means of production for the working class, that weakens your credibility by quite a lot.


Oh cool, someone else sees through the bullshit too. 

The DNC is nothing but moderate shit anymore. They pay lip service for the radical left but don't really do much to actually make things better for everyone. At least not unless there's some interest involved to corporate entities.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> No, don't make me laugh.  The Democratic party is a center-right, capitalist party through and through.  If you're unable to distinguish them from actual Socialists who want to seize the means of production for the working class, that weakens your credibility by quite a lot.


bullshit



> DNC Chairman: Socialism Is the Future of Our Party​


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> bullshit







hmm. a website that claims it the truth? and a website nobody has heard of? 
Let's go a step further and look for the owner 
ah 



so it's meant to be conservitive, for conservatives, claiming it's the truth.
you know how easy it is to grift on conservatives?
extremely easy


----------



## Nothereed (Apr 12, 2022)

As for a rebuttable


Coto said:


> bullshit



here's nancy polosi on the record stating they are capitalist, when an individual essentially actually tries asking about socialist policies.


----------



## Coto (Apr 12, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> so it's meant to be conservitive


you got a brain tumor when you tried to quote actual sources, so i'll help you read through the site, and check their sources so you don't get lost again ok?



> DNC Chairman: Socialism Is the Future of Our Party​The chairman of the Democratic National Committee said Tuesday that Democratic Socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is “the future of our party.”
> 
> The liberal talk host asked Perez about Ocasio-Cortez’s surprising primary victory last week over 10-term incumbent Rep. Joe Crowley in New York’s 14th Congressional District.
> 
> ...



And now



> The 28-year-old Ocasio-Cortez is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, who want to abolish capitalism in favor of an economy run by the state or “the workers.”





> *Last week, the New York City DSA also called for the abolition of borders and prisons.*



And now pictures:


I'll help you to read what's in the link contents so you don't get lost ok?

https://www.dsausa.org/toward_freedom


> *The Democratic Socialists of America is the largest socialist organization in the United States, with over 90,000 members. We believe that working people** should run both the economy and society** democratically to meet human needs, not to make profits for a few.*





> This democratic commitment to *social pluralism* *does not **negate the need for a democratic state that would ensure the rule of law*, protect the environment, and insure a basic level of equity for each citizen. It is predominantly through cooperative, voluntary relationships that people will develop the social bonds that render life meaningful. In these institutions, there will be different roles conforming to the varied talents citizens bring to different pursuits.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 12, 2022)

Coto said:


> bullshit


AOC gets sidelined and railroaded by the Democratic party constantly.  Same treatment Bernie Sanders got for his entire career.  Two people out of hundreds of representatives in DC does not a Socialist party make.



Coto said:


> New York City DSA


The DSA is not affiliated with the Democratic party.  They might try to push the party left on some issues, but again, with two whole representatives their reach and influence is extremely limited.

Repeating myself here: the US spends fuck all on social services.  Until that spending _at least_ manages to match our annual corporate handouts, we're as polar opposite from a Socialist country as you can possibly get. We're on the decline toward oligarchy.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> AOC gets sidelined and railroaded by the Democratic party constantly.  Same treatment Bernie Sanders got for his entire career.  Two people out of hundreds of representatives in DC does not a Socialist party make.


AOC is fake eye candy. She acted as if she is tough, but then she toed the line like everyone else. Look up "force the vote".


----------



## djpannda (Apr 13, 2022)

so if Putin is committing War Crimes on Civilians because it was afraid that Ukriane would join NATO....
I wonder what it will do to stop Finland from Joining...


:::HINT::: most likely nothing... because it was ever about NATO.. just an excuse for land grab to raise Putins legacy


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

If Korea united and joined Nato, China would do the same. There are red lines when it comes to enemies at your gate. The US would do the same to its neighbors. Russian or Chinese missiles in Canada or Mexico pointing at Washington is unacceptable.


----------



## linuxares (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If Korea united and joined Nato, China would do the same. There are red lines when it comes to enemies at your gate. The US would do the same to its neighbors. Russian or Chinese missiles in Canada or Mexico pointing at Washington is unacceptable.


When was the last time the US invaded their neighbors? I can tell when Russia did.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If Korea united and joined Nato, China would do the same. There are red lines when it comes to enemies at your gate. The US would do the same to its neighbors. Russian or Chinese missiles in Canada or Mexico pointing at Washington is unacceptable.


fear mongering at best... NATO=*North Atlantic Treaty Organization*

Korea is the Pacific South.....
also complete BS as USA has Thousands of missiles Pointed at China as we speak in Japan... soo yea...



ANNDDD



so look at  that area next to the NATO GREEN Alaska.... that Grey landmass is... :rumroll:: RUSSIA. 50miles aways.....
and you are NAIVE as F$K as you don't think Russia and US has A BUTT LOAD OF missiles/Nukes Pointed at each other in that area


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Apr 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> AOC gets sidelined and railroaded by the Democratic party constantly.  Same treatment Bernie Sanders got for his entire career.  Two people out of hundreds of representatives in DC does not a Socialist party make.


The other thing that should be noted is that because "Socialism" has become such an ugly word to the extent it shares the same basic description of communism that anyone actually using the word in any other way defaults to communism to anyone without knowledge of definition or any critical thinking skills.

Start mentioning the idea of something like "Socialized Medicine" and the conservatives and dumbasses come out ranting and raving about communism and how long it will be before we spread our collective arsehole for Putin because its all a slippery slope when in reality its just the concept of offering cheap/free healthcare to everyone in the country and not just the elite that already get kickbacks and do not have to pay for any healthcare because its all tax payed. 

We need to stop letting uneducated pudding brains dictate how this country works.


----------



## leon315 (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If Korea united and joined Nato, China would do the same. There are red lines when it comes to enemies at your gate. The US would do the same to its neighbors. Russian or Chinese missiles in Canada or Mexico pointing at Washington is unacceptable.





linuxares said:


> When was the last time the US invaded their neighbors? I can tell when Russia did.



People has really short memories, similar thing has already happened not longtime ago: remember when Cuba hosted Russian missiles and Turkey hosted american's? it's 100% guaranteed US will do the same as Russia today!


----------



## Glyptofane (Apr 13, 2022)

linuxares said:


> When was the last time the US invaded their neighbors? I can tell when Russia did.


The US is busy _still_ occupying Iraq and murdering Somalians. Some real humanitarian stuff.


----------



## Coto (Apr 13, 2022)




----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

linuxares said:


> When was the last time the US invaded their neighbors? I can tell when Russia did.


It threatened to invade or destroy Cuba in 1962 (and let´s forget the Bay of Pigs and 60 years of sanctions for a moment), just like Russia threatened Ukraine in 2021/22. EVERYONE IN THE WEST called in a threat, but did nothing (because they wanted it to happen; to give Russia a 2nd Afghanistan).

The US is the ruling power. You can bet they will behave similar to Russia once their influence wanes and China chooses to put military anywhere on North or South America - cause that´s considered US turf, it is called Monroe Doctrine.

But to answer your question directly: Panama in 1989, to save tens of thousands US citizens, they said. Russia now invaded Ukraine to save millions of Russians who had been declared subhumans.


----------



## linuxares (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It threatened to invade or destroy Cuba in 1962 (and let´s forget the Bay of Pigs and 60 years of sanctions for a moment), just like Russia threatened Ukraine in 2021/22. EVERYONE IN THE WEST called in a threat, but did nothing (because they wanted it to happen; to give Russia a 2nd Afghanistan).
> 
> The US is the ruling power. You can bet they will behave similar to Russia once their influence wanes and China chooses to put military anywhere on North or South America - cause that´s considered US turf, it is called Monroe Doctrine.
> 
> But to answer your question directly: Panama in 1989, to save tens of thousands US citizens, they said. Russia now invaded Ukraine to save millions of Russians who had been declared subhumans.


So 1962 then. Panama is not even close to the US mainland?
So where is Ukraine located to Russia?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

djpannda said:


> fear mongering at best... NATO=*North Atlantic Treaty Organization*
> 
> Korea is the Pacific South.....
> also complete BS as USA has Thousands of missiles Pointed at China as we speak in Japan... soo yea...
> ...


Greenland is not 50miles away from Moscow. Large parts of Russia are ice deserts.
Look at where Russian or Chinese missiles could be at the moment. You think it makes not difference to the US if they were in e.g. Toronto? Then you are naive.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Greenland is not 50miles away from Moscow. Large parts of Russia are ice deserts.
> Look at where Russian or Chinese missiles could be at the moment. You think it makes not difference to the US if they were in e.g. Toronto? Then you are naive.



"So 1962 then. Panama is not even close to the US mainland?"
LOL they invaded a neighbor further away. Isn´t that even worse?


----------



## Xzi (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> "So 1962 then. Panama is not even close to the US mainland?"
> LOL they invaded a neighbor further away. Isn´t that even worse?


Russia isn't just invading Ukraine, their intent is to occupy it and thus eliminate its independence and sovereignty permanently.  You'd have to go all the way back to before the states were established, when territory was being stolen from Native Americans and Mexico, for a decent parallel.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

Occupation has not been the goal. Putin called in denazification. Translation: Political neutralization.
What do you think the US wants from Cuba?


----------



## Xzi (Apr 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Occupation has not been the goal. Putin called in denazification. Translation: Political neutralization.


You're smart enough to know that's bullshit, just like every statement made by the Kremlin in the last couple months.  Only one side of this conflict are truly acting like fascists.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What do you think the US wants from Cuba?


At this point?  Just to use them as an example of how Socialism "doesn't work."  Of course, that's heavily undermined by the fact that a lot of Americans travel to Cuba for affordable medical care and/or medications.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 13, 2022)

The sanctions will stop once Cuba accepts American democracy.
The war will stop once Ukraine stops trying to become part of the West.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Apr 14, 2022)

not much has changed from the Russians, same old B/s nearly 100 years later,

then, the reasons for the attack the 180million Soviets  are threatened  by the 4million in Finland, the Red army is in danger, the Russian Air force probably the biggest in the world fears for its existence... British  sarcasm at it's best, how the hell does Putin and his mob keep a straight face with all these lies he's telling now.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 14, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The sanctions will stop once Cuba accepts American democracy.


It's their economic system that we take issue with, the CIA overthrows democratically-elected Socialist leaders the same way they do leftists that seize power by force.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The war will stop once Ukraine stops trying to become part of the West.


No, open warfare will stop once either Putin is dead/removed from power, or Russia occupies all of Ukraine.  That's when asymmetrical warfare begins and China begins their economic takeover of an isolated Russia.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 14, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The sanctions will stop once Cuba accepts American democracy.
> The war will stop once Ukraine stops trying to become part of the West.


I don't think you understand what Sovereign Nation means... Ukraine does not need to ask permission from Russian... Finland DOES NOT NEED to ask Permission.. Sweden Does not need to ask Permission.... 
You are so enveloped in CCP/Russia Fascism  you cant wipe your own but without written permission


----------



## djpannda (Apr 14, 2022)

yup This is what American Conservatives  are defending


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 14, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I don't think you understand what Sovereign Nation means... Ukraine does not need to ask permission from Russian... Finland DOES NOT NEED to ask Permission.. Sweden Does not need to ask Permission....
> You are so enveloped in CCP/Russia Fascism  you cant wipe your own but without written permission


Kiev didn´t need permission to harm Yanukovitch.
Russia does not need to invade Russian borderlands.


----------



## djpannda (Apr 14, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Kiev didn´t need permission to harm Yanukovitch.
> Russia does not need to invade Russian borderlands.


cool "petty excuse for Fascism" story.. 
Back to the Real world...


----------



## djpannda (Apr 14, 2022)

really impressed on This Youtuber's growth... making sure we understand how "polling" really works in Russia by From Russian who left as part of the "brain-Drain" youth.


So yea 80% approval? lol SUURRREEEE


----------



## djpannda (Apr 14, 2022)

So The Flagship of Russian Fleet, the Crowning Jewel... has officially been sunk according to Russian STATE news

... Russia is denying that Ukraine blew it up.. and stating it was a "small" fire that near the ARMORY...
OH Course Russian Vlogers and Telegram users are not buying it and has seriously hit Russian Pop. Moral
You can see This Russian's  Face as he found out..

There is no  Comparison  for this as Russia always claimed that the Russian warship Moskva was the embodiment of *Russian military  strength..*..AND THEY are Right* 
"Russian Military Strength= Destroyed  and SUNK TO THE Bottom of the SEA  "*


----------



## Coto (Apr 14, 2022)

djpannda said:


> really impressed on This Youtuber's growth... making sure we understand how "polling" really works in Russia by From Russian who left as part of the "brain-Drain" youth.
> 
> 
> So yea 80% approval? lol SUURRREEEE



Correct


----------



## kenlee168 (Apr 15, 2022)

This will triggered Putin


----------



## djpannda (Apr 15, 2022)

lol the Russian Exodus is soo ramped. Uzbekistan are calling them Russian Refugees .
There are more and more HUSH Hush Russian abandoning Russia for 2 reasons
1. to avoid possible WAR (drafted)
2. To avoid the upcoming IRON Curtin.
Man....North Korea is going to start looking like a Vacation..
Their are keeping quiet so that Russian Government does not bad Travel to "friendly nations"


----------



## Coto (Apr 16, 2022)

Yessir


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 17, 2022)

Coto said:


> Yessir


If their nukes are made from the same cardboard as their tanks, the world has nothing to worry about. So far all Russia has shown the world is how to fuck up an invasion of a tiny country in spite of having absolutely overwhelming advantage. The whole offensive is more akin to a Benny Hill skit than it is to a military operation at this point - nobody expected it to last more than 2-3 days. Much like in the case of North Korea, the world should start wondering if their hold-over hardware from an era gone by even works anymore.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 17, 2022)

https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/video-butscha.mp4

This video supposedly shows the Ukrainian army in Bucha after the Russian withdrawal. In the beginning of the video, a soldier asks his superior whether he can shoot people without blue ribbons, which he then confirms.
It is possible - just putting it out there - that the victims shown to the media were accused Russian collaborateurs.

Since the West is lead by emotional women and self-identified males (e.g. quote by Scholz: "Seeing those picture, we can no longer..."), it would not surprise me if Ukraine tried that. After all, the Ukrainian president has compared the war to the holocaust in front of an Israeli audience (bad idea btw!) and claimed the Russians are attempting to kill every Ukrainian... and unlike in China, where leading politicians need to have a background in successful politics, Zelensky has a background in acting, like Trudeau in Canada, the head of the EU commission Leyen in child-bearing (which automatically made her fit to lead the German defence ministry I guess), etc.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/video-butscha.mp4
> 
> This video supposedly shows the Ukrainian army in Bucha after the Russian withdrawal. In the beginning of the video, a soldier asks his superior whether he can shoot people without blue ribbons, which he then confirms.
> It is possible - just putting it out there - that the victims shown to the media were accused Russian collaborateurs.
> ...


The events that transpired in Bucha have been captured on satellite footage and drone footage. There’s no ambiguity in regards to what happened there and who’s responsible. Russian soldiers have been caught on camera opening fire on civilians - Putin can lie to his own people, but he can’t lie his way out of videos. The Russian government has been consistently lying in regards to the massacre, claiming it’s a “hoax” despite overwhelming evidence that it is not, going so far as to say that the whole thing was staged and that the dead bodies are crisis actors. They must be very good at method acting, because they’ve been motionless on the ground for weeks. Weird conspiracy theories from .ru sites are not credible. I don’t know why anyone would go out of their way to cover for Putin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 18, 2022)

Dead bodies lying on the street for weeks should have signs of decomposition. Google it if you dare. The people I have seen on television looked like they had been dead for days, not weeks.
The video of a Russian soldier opening fire on a civilian is real. I´m sure it is not the only case. Still, Ukraine wants "more action" and could use their own dead bodies (e.g. men who don´t want to fight?) to frame Russia.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Dead bodies lying on the street for weeks should have signs of decomposition. Google it if you dare. The people I have seen on television looked like they had been dead for days, not weeks.
> The video of a Russian soldier opening fire on a civilian is real. I´m sure it is not the only case. Still, Ukraine wants "more action" and could use their own dead bodies (e.g. men who don´t want to fight?) to frame Russia.


I was unaware of your ability to perform a medical examination based on the shaky cam Russian media are propagating. For the record, there were entire mass graves found in the area, so no shortage of decomposing bodies as far as evidence goes. Ukraine doesn’t need to “frame Russia”, they’re a sovereign country that was invaded by a foreign power. They can’t damage Russia’s public image any more if they tried.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I was unaware of your ability to perform a medical examination based on the shaky cam Russian media are propagating.


Ukrainian. Unless you call them Russians, which is what they are.


Foxi4 said:


> For the record, there were entire mass graves found in the area, so no shortage of decomposing bodies as far as evidence goes.


The ones that were not in body bags but lying in the streets.


Foxi4 said:


> Ukraine doesn’t need to “frame Russia”, they’re a sovereign country that was invaded by a foreign power. They can’t damage Russia’s public image any more if they tried.


Then why were new sanctions made? Same as with the hospital.


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ukrainian. Unless you call them Russians, which is what they are.


They’re Ukrainians. This ethic group didn’t pop out of a hat, Russia has no claim on this land or its people.


> The ones that were not in body bags but lying in the streets.


You don’t know if those bodies showed signs of decomposition or not because you’re operating on potato cam footage. What you do know is that they were on that street for an extended period of time, and we know that for a fact because we have satellite footage that shows as much. For the record, the temperature in Bucha in March hovered between -6 to 2 degrees Celsius - relevant as far as decomposition goes.


> Then why were new sanctions made? Same as with the hospital.


Because it’s a war crime.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 18, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> They’re Ukrainians. This ethic group didn’t pop out of a hat, Russia has no claim on this land or its people.


Let me use the mainstream logic of why races don´t exist:
The genetic variation within Russia is greater than between Russia and Ukraine. Therefore they are the same.


Foxi4 said:


> You don’t know if those bodies showed signs of decomposition or not because you’re operating on potato cam footage. What you do know is that they were on that street for an extended period of time, and we know that for a fact because we have satellite footage that shows as much. For the record, the temperature in Bucha in March hovered between -6 to 2 degrees Celsius - relevant as far as decomposition goes.
> Because it’s a war crime.


Funny how you rely on a few pixels each on satellite photos provided by the NYT while calling camera footage from meters aways potato cam footage.

You didn´t get my last point: If Russia cannot sink any lower in public perception, then what is the point of inventing this story (you asked). I answered it by saying: new measures (which is exactly what happened). Therefore, Ukraine has an incentive to make stories like these up. Not saying it didn´t happen, I am just not convinced.
(Unlike the video where a Russian shoots a civilian who comes out of the car; or how Ukrainians shoot prisoners of war)


----------



## Foxi4 (Apr 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Let me use the mainstream logic of why races don´t exist:
> The genetic variation within Russia is greater than between Russia and Ukraine. Therefore they are the same.


What does race have to do with anything? Everyone in that region is Slavic in origin, that doesn’t negate distinct nationalities.


> Funny how you rely on a few pixels each on satellite photos provided by the NYT while calling camera footage from meters aways potato cam footage.


Yes, I do, because all I need to know is that those pixels haven’t moved. I don’t need to verify that those people are dead - I know they’re dead because they’ve been on the ground for weeks in adverse weather. If they weren’t dead when they started, they sure are now.


> You didn´t get my last point: If Russia cannot sink any lower in public perception, then what is the point of inventing this story (you asked). I answered it by saying: new measures (which is exactly what happened). Therefore, Ukraine has an incentive to make stories like these up. Not saying it didn´t happen, I am just not convinced.
> (Unlike the video where a Russian shoots a civilian who comes out of the car; or how Ukrainians shoot prisoners of war)


I got point - your point was just silly. Russia cannot sink lower in public perception. In addition, Ukraine does not set the sanctions leveraged against Russia. It is in Ukraine’s interest to keep the world informed, because Russia sure won’t, but the information about Bucha wasn’t even exclusive to Ukrainian sources - international correspondents corroborated the story. Do they also collide with the Ukrainian government? How far does the rabbit hole go before we agree that your premise is silly?


----------



## smf (Apr 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If Korea united and joined Nato, China would do the same. There are red lines when it comes to enemies at your gate. The US would do the same to its neighbors. Russian or Chinese missiles in Canada or Mexico pointing at Washington is unacceptable.


That says more about the people who see their neighbors as enemies.

What Russia needs right now IS missiles pointing at it, because otherwise they do this dumb shit.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You didn´t get my last point: If Russia cannot sink any lower in public perception, then what is the point of inventing this story (you asked). I answered it by saying: new measures (which is exactly what happened). Therefore, Ukraine has an incentive to make stories like these up.


I actually think Russia can sink lower, every day that Putin keeps up this thinly veiled invasion it sinks further.

Russia has more of an incentive to make stories up than Ukraine does.

Consequently we can see that Russia does make up stories.


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## smf (Apr 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> and claimed the Russians are attempting to kill every Ukrainian...


Only the ones who don't want to be Russian.


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## Coto (Apr 18, 2022)

True. World Leaders belong to World Economic Forum, United Nations, and some members of NATO. And these are preventing Ukraine in one way or another, to defend themselves properly.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> What does race have to do with anything? Everyone in that region is Slavic in origin, that doesn’t negate distinct nationalities.


If there are no races due to this argument (which is btw a mainstream argument perpetuated by the "scientific community"), then there can be no ethnicities either. Aren´t ethnicities based on genetic clusters? Race is just a broader term than ethnicity.


Foxi4 said:


> Yes, I do, because all I need to know is that those pixels haven’t moved. I don’t need to verify that those people are dead - I know they’re dead because they’ve been on the ground for weeks in adverse weather. If they weren’t dead when they started, they sure are now.


I couldn´t tell whether they are bodies on those satellite images. Isn´t it odd that the Russians leave and they leave corpses (who had been there for weeks apparently) lying on street for days? The happy mayor didn´t mention them when he made his twitter video. They could have been placed there. I think they are people killed in the war but I cannot tell who killed them and whether they were placed there. The West is suscepitble to imagery. Let´s not forget the Syrian boy. He did die. But he was placed face-down at the coast to elicit sympathy for refugees (even though he and his father were safe in Turkey, the father decided to get dental treatment in Canada and made a dangerous journey).
And you know what? It worked. Just as it worked in Bucha IF the images are manipulated.


Foxi4 said:


> I got point - your point was just silly. Russia cannot sink lower in public perception. In addition, Ukraine does not set the sanctions leveraged against Russia. It is in Ukraine’s interest to keep the world informed, because Russia sure won’t, but the information about Bucha wasn’t even exclusive to Ukrainian sources - international correspondents corroborated the story. Do they also collide with the Ukrainian government? How far does the rabbit hole go before we agree that your premise is silly?


The international press arrived after the fact. You think they go into dangerous areas? You have to resort to private journalists for that.


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## Coto (Apr 19, 2022)

Indoctrination of Russian people. Notice how much Ukrainians *still* care about russians being able to decide on their own rather than being lectured by the giant Big State.


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## tomasxd12 (Apr 19, 2022)

RUSSIA STOP UKRAINE WAR - president of uk


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## tomasxd12 (Apr 19, 2022)

Coto said:


> Indoctrination of Russian people. Notice how much Ukrainians *still* care about russians being able to decide on their own rather than being lectured by the giant Big State.



oh. That's bad or good?


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## Coto (Apr 19, 2022)

tomasxd12 said:


> oh. That's bad or good?


Good or bad doesn't exist in war. 

But if you're killing civilians, raping women and children, and sending bloodbath'd goods just because you've got the tools for that, you'd be a monster.


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## Coto (Apr 20, 2022)

CHERNIHIV high school bombed by Russia -- many casualties​
--------------------------------------------------------------


Terrifying car cemetery in Bucha. Russian invaders fired at civilians' cars trying to leave the city​


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## Foxi4 (Apr 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If there are no races due to this argument (which is btw a mainstream argument perpetuated by the "scientific community"), then there can be no ethnicities either. Aren´t ethnicities based on genetic clusters? Race is just a broader term than ethnicity.


No, it isn’t, and never was. An ethnic group is distinguishable based on a variety of factors besides common ancestry, including (but not limited to) cultural herritage, religion, language, tradition, nationality, social norms and more. In addition, this argument is silly as it has nothing to do with what’s being discussed here. “A baguette and a kaiser roll are effectively the same because scrambled eggs are a great breakfast food” is not a sensible way to have a discussion.


> I couldn´t tell whether they are bodies on those satellite images.


I’m not your optician.


> Isn´t it odd that the Russians leave and they leave corpses (who had been there for weeks apparently) lying on street for days?


No, it’s not odd.


> The happy mayor didn´t mention them when he made his twitter video.


I’m not the mayor’s speech writer.


> They could have been placed there.


Conspiratorial. Where’s your evidence? They were placed there alright - by Russians shooting at civilians, of which there’s a public record.


> I think they are people killed in the war but I cannot tell who killed them and whether they were placed there.


I can, because they’re dead Ukrainians in Ukraine after it was attacked by Russia, and the surroundings do not seem to be disturbed, ruling out the possibility of a film crew dragging bodies there for a photo op. You can concoct a different story if you want, I’ll err on the side of Occam’s Razor.


> The West is suscepitble to imagery. Let´s not forget the Syrian boy. He did die. But he was placed face-down at the coast to elicit sympathy for refugees (even though he and his father were safe in Turkey, the father decided to get dental treatment in Canada and made a dangerous journey).


”Baguettes are nice and crispy, but they don’t make good life boats”. Again, you’re dragging in something true, but unrelated, to bolster your point. Where’s your evidence of tampering? Where did the bodies come from?


> And you know what? It worked. Just as it worked in Bucha IF the images are manipulated.


Which you are yet to explain. What you’re saying is that there are multiple mass graves found in a small town, and all of the bodies were dragged there from all around the place to stage an elaborate photo op that nobody was aware of, despite the presence of international press in the country and spy satellites locked in on the place at all times, and this monumental effort left no traces behind for us to examine after the fact. How did they transport the bodies? With ghost trucks? They didn’t just “appear” - if your conspiracy theory is to have any legs, you have to some way to locate, transport and distribute dead bodies around town and in the forest. Who did that? When? Is there any evidence of that happening? Because if there isn’t, I’m going to assume that the most likely scenario is true - Russian forces killed a bunch of Ukrainians and left them in the streets. It’s the most likely scenario because we know that’s happening - it’s on video. Until proven otherwise, that’s the obvious explanation of how you end up with corpses on a street in the middle of a warzone.


> The international press arrived after the fact. You think they go into dangerous areas? You have to resort to private journalists for that.


Every single major outlet has war correspondents.

Here’s the crux of the issue. While technically possible, your scenario is highly unlikely, not the reasons stated above and more. You’re welcome to distrust the official narrative, and asking questions is always good - trust, but verify. With that being said, concocting stories is never a good look if you have nothing to go by besides intuition. The most likely, obvious scenario here is that those people were killed by invading Russian forces. It wouldn’t be the first time. Russian military might be trained to follow some basic precepts of the Geneva convention - the PMC’s they hire, like Wagner Group, don’t have to worry about that. There’s a reason why contractors get hired in such conflicts - plausible deniability. The political ramifications of a PMC operating outside of the modern rules of warfare are minimal, Blake can be shifted very easily here.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/me...-convention-war-crimes-atrocities-11649797041
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> No, it isn’t, and never was. An ethnic group is distinguishable based on a variety of factors besides common ancestry, including (but not limited to) cultural herritage, religion, language, tradition, nationality, social norms and more. In addition, this argument is silly as it has nothing to do with what’s being discussed here. “A baguette and a kaiser roll are effectively the same because scrambled eggs are a great breakfast food” is not a sensible way to have a discussion.


I have given a different explanation of what might have happened. You are free to accept the mainstream view. The same mainstream that has tried to portray Russia in the worst possible light since the days of Jelzin are over.
"Conspiratorial" is not an argument. Wars are full of conspiracies. In fact, the invasion itself can be described as one: Putin conspired with his generals to attack Ukraine. Iraq 1 and Iraq 2 were started by a conspiracy.

What you said about ethnicity is bullshit. I am living in China but if I do not make babies with Chinese women, my children will not be of Chinese ethnicity, no matter their Chinese language skill, religion, etc. Nor will I become even 1% Chinese (by ethnicity). Obama´s ethnicity is Kenyan and European (as far as I know). It is clearly based on genetic clusters. If you deny this obvious truth, I wouldn´t trust your opinion on today´s weather.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I have given a different explanation of what might have happened. You are free to accept the mainstream view. The same mainstream that has tried to portray Russia in the worst possible light since the days of Jelzin are over.
> "Conspiratorial" is not an argument. Wars are full of conspiracies. In fact, the invasion itself can be described as one: Putin conspired with his generals to attack Ukraine. Iraq 1 and Iraq 2 were started by a conspiracy.


Bad intelligence is not equivalent to conspiracy. Russia is portrayed poorly in the media because it continues to be an awful place to live in.


> What you said about ethnicity is bullshit. I am living in China but if I do not make babies with Chinese women, my children will not be of Chinese ethnicity, no matter their Chinese language skill, religion, etc. Nor will I become even 1% Chinese (by ethnicity). Obama´s ethnicity is Kenyan and European (as far as I know). It is clearly based on genetic clusters. If you deny this obvious truth, I wouldn´t trust your opinion on today´s weather.





> Ethnicity, noun - a particular ethnic group, or the fact of belonging to a particular ethnic group (= a group of people with a shared culture, tradition, language, history, etc.)
> 
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ethnicity


You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing with the accepted definition. You can have your own made-up definition, but don’t expect others to operate within the confines of it. The rest of us agree on what the word means.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 20, 2022)

So am I ethnically Chinese then once I reach a high level of fluency, listen to Chinese music and enjoy Beijing Opera and duck?
Would my hypothetical non-Chinese children become ethnically Chinese?
Nonsense, and you know it.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So am I ethnically Chinese then once I reach a high level of fluency, listen to Chinese music and enjoy Beijing Opera and duck?
> Would my hypothetical non-Chinese children become ethnically Chinese?
> Nonsense, and you know it.





> Ethnicity may be construed as an inherited or as a societally imposed construct. Ethnic membership tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language, or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, or physical appearance. Ethnic groups may share a narrow or broad spectrum of genetic ancestry, depending on group identification, with many groups having mixed genetic ancestry. Ethnic groups often continue to speak related languages.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group


It would make you a Chinese speaker. Would you say that there are other factors that distinguish you from the group’s accepted default, precluding you from “becoming Chinese” in the eyes of your peers? Different groups operate on different membership requirements. Ethnic groups shift and intermix constantly, over long stretches of time. When does a person become “British”? They seem to be far more lenient than the insular Chinese. How about American? It seems to me that just citizenship alone is sufficient, and many argue that even that isn’t a prerequisite. Add supersets and subsets to this mix, and simultaneous membership to multiple groups, and you get a real bowl of spaghetti.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 20, 2022)

A Chinese becoming German, French etc is just as idiotic. You just don´t realize it due to your upbringing. American is not an ethnicity but a mix of many. There is a difference between citizenship and ethnicity.


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## Coto (Apr 20, 2022)

Real people fighting needs inmediate support, and politicians are NOT helping them at all.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> A Chinese becoming German, French etc is just as idiotic. You just don´t realize it due to your upbringing. American is not an ethnicity but a mix of many. There is a difference between citizenship and ethnicity.


I don’t think you grasp the difference between ancestry, which is biological, and ethnic grouping, which is entirely social. A 5th generation “Asian” person living in America, following an American lifestyle, eating American foods, speaking English and celebrating American holidays is objectively Asian in blood only. They’re called “Asian Americans” for a reason - they’re Americans who came to America from Asia. It doesn’t matter that their eyes look a certain way or their skin is a certain colour - they’re as American as any other American. They’re not “the same” as the people in their ancestral homeland, they’ve acquired traits that are native to their new home and new social environment. While it’s true that America specifically is divided into multiple ethnic subgroups based on origin, I’d argue that “-American” does automatically impart tradition and culture unique to the region, which is ethnically relevant. We could have a discussion on whether that could be considered an ethnicity or not - that’d be interesting. Arguing about what ethnicity is is silly - we know what it is, we made up the term to mean a certain thing, and that’s what it means, despite your protestations. Bigger subject, to be sure, but in the context of “being british” for instance, there’s no shortage of brits that are black or Indian - the empire stretched across pretty much all of the continents. What does it mean to be “British”? Your guess is as good as mine, I assume it has something to do with tea and biscuits, and sarcasm. Tl;dr “ethnicity” is a much broader therm than race (as far as race can be considered real in regards to ancestry and census data), you can have two people with common ancestry belonging to different social groupings, it’s not uncommon.


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## djpannda (Apr 20, 2022)

Oh .. so it looks like China isn’t going to save Russia? Lol guess China just wants Russia to completely fail to buy it completely up​UnionPay refuses to cooperate with Sberbank due to the risk of secondary sanctions – The Moscow Times​


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> I don’t think you grasp the difference between ancestry, which is biological, and ethnic grouping, which is entirely social. A 5th generation “Asian” person living in America, following an American lifestyle, eating American foods, speaking English and celebrating American holidays is objectively Asian in blood only. They’re called “Asian Americans” for a reason - they’re Americans who came to America from Asia. It doesn’t matter that their eyes look a certain way or their skin is a certain colour - they’re as American as any other American. They’re not “the same” as the people in their ancestral homeland, they’ve acquired traits that are native to their new home and new social environment. While it’s true that America specifically is divided into multiple ethnic subgroups based on origin, I’d argue that “-American” does automatically impart tradition and culture unique to the region, which is ethnically relevant. We could have a discussion on whether that could be considered an ethnicity or not - that’d be interesting. Arguing about what ethnicity is is silly - we know what it is, we made up the term to mean a certain thing, and that’s what it means, despite your protestations. Bigger subject, to be sure, but in the context of “being british” for instance, there’s no shortage of brits that are black or Indian - the empire stretched across pretty much all of the continents. What does it mean to be “British”? Your guess is as good as mine, I assume it has something to do with tea and biscuits, and sarcasm. Tl;dr “ethnicity” is a much broader therm than race (as far as race can be considered real in regards to ancestry and census data), you can have two people with common ancestry belonging to different social groupings, it’s not uncommon.


Stalin forbade a relative of Lenin to talk about Lenin´s partial Jewish ethnicity. They were not talking about religion. His grandfather (originally named Blank) had adopted a Russian last name. Lenin was a non-religious Christian. If ethnicity was about religion, there would have been no problem. Yet modern antisemitism is about ethnicity, not religion (in both Russia and Germany).

Ethnicity is also constantly brought up with regards to racial profiling (e.g. „_Bei einer Podiumsdiskussion waren Polizeikontrollen aufgrund der *Ethnie* Thema. Eine Studie zeigt, dass es Racial Profiling in der Schweiz gibt._“) Makes no sense if it is about culture. Ethnicity is about ancenstry first, the other aspects are Western postmodern make-believe. Two siblings could be raised on different continents, yet their ethnicity has to be identicial if they have the same parents.

Anyway, believe what you want. To be exact: Make yourself believe what you want.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Stalin forbade a relative of Lenin to talk about Lenin´s partial Jewish ethnicity. They were not talking about religion. His grandfather (originally named Blank) had adopted a Russian last name. Lenin was a non-religious Christian. If ethnicity was about religion, there would have been no problem. Yet modern antisemitism is about ethnicity, not religion (in both Russia and Germany).
> 
> Ethnicity is also constantly brought up with regards to racial profiling (e.g. „_Bei einer Podiumsdiskussion waren Polizeikontrollen aufgrund der *Ethnie* Thema. Eine Studie zeigt, dass es Racial Profiling in der Schweiz gibt._“) Makes no sense if it is about culture. Ethnicity is about ancenstry first, the other aspects are Western postmodern make-believe. Two siblings could be raised on different continents, yet their ethnicity has to be identicial if they have the same parents.
> 
> Anyway, believe what you want. To be exact: Make yourself believe what you want.


Jews are an example of the exact point I’m making, actually. Jews intermarried with local populations to a huge extent - Ashkenazi Jews are nothing like Sephardic Jews (diaspora and all that), but they’re all “Jews” on the basis of religious custom. Even non-practicing Jews are subject to Jewish custom, in the sense that the status is passed down on the mother’s side. You’re “a Jew” if your mother was Jewish (matrilineal descent) - that’s it. The race or ethnicity of the father is completely irrelevant. Heck, you can “become Jewish”, they have set rules for that. You’ve torpedoed your own argument.


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## rantex92 (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Jews are an example of the exact point I’m making, actually. Jews intermarried with local populations to a huge extent - Ashkenazi Jews are nothing like Sephardic Jews (diaspora and all that), but they’re all “Jews” on the basis of religious custom. Even non-practicing Jews are subject to Jewish custom, in the sense that the status is passed down on the mother’s side. You’re “a Jew” if your mother was Jewish (matrilineal descent) - that’s it. The race or ethnicity of the father is completely irrelevant. Heck, you can “become Jewish”, they have set rules for that. You’ve torpedoed your own argument.


oooohhhhh that wouldnt fly in germany    i can hear the leftist screams "jews are not a race is a religion"  
but what those people dont know jewish nationalism (if you can call that nationalism ) exist and they aint different from the funny mustache guy   just to quote Rabbi Ovadia Yosef  "goyims only exist to serve the jews" and yes they see them self as the holy race ....again much like the funny mustache guy


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## Xzi (Apr 21, 2022)

rantex92 said:


> oooohhhhh that wouldnt fly in germany    i can hear the leftist screams "jews are not a race is a religion"
> but what those people dont know jewish nationalism (if you can call that nationalism ) exist and they aint different from the funny mustache guy   just to quote Rabbi Ovadia Yosef  "goyims only exist to serve the jews" and yes they see them self as the holy race ....again much like the funny mustache guy


And Christian nationalists don't exist?  Seems like a good portion of people who believe in any one of the three Abrahamic religions would love nothing more than to be locked into an eternal dick measuring contest with the other two.  Which would be good and fine if the dispute didn't turn violent so often.


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## rantex92 (Apr 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And Christian nationalists don't exist?  Seems like a good portion of people who believe in any one of the three Abrahamic religions would love nothing more than to be locked into an eternal dick measuring contest with the other two.  Which would be good and fine if the dispute didn't turn violent so often.


nah dude dont get me wrong any kind of thinking x is superior of another x (where x can be race,religion,politic opinions) is F*cked

let quote my favourite parody 

"By the way, do you know what religious wars are? these are conflicts between adults about who has the cooler imaginary friend"


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Jews are an example of the exact point I’m making, actually. Jews intermarried with local populations to a huge extent - Ashkenazi Jews are nothing like Sephardic Jews (diaspora and all that), but they’re all “Jews” on the basis of religious custom. Even non-practicing Jews are subject to Jewish custom, in the sense that the status is passed down on the mother’s side. You’re “a Jew” if your mother was Jewish (matrilineal descent) - that’s it. The race or ethnicity of the father is completely irrelevant. Heck, you can “become Jewish”, they have set rules for that. You’ve torpedoed your own argument.


You are tropedoing your argument. What distinguishes Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews are different admixtures, costums are secondary (i.e. they result from the different ethnic background). Both trace their lineage back to the Middle East. Mizrahi Jews could perhaps be described as the closest to e.g. Jesus of Nazareth.
My understanding of ethnicity does not negate intermarriage. Obama is half Kenyan, half European. If he had married a European, his children would look pretty European and could be considered as such, independent of customs.
While converting to the Jewish faith is possible, it is extremely rare. It is often discouraged and in my view, converts are not real Jews. They could be part of the extended community and blend through intermarriage.

If 10mio Koreans decided tomorrow to become Jews, we would not consider them Jews. But they could become Christians or Muslims.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You are tropedoing your argument. What distinguishes Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews are different admixtures, costums are secondary (i.e. they result from the different ethnic background). Both trace their lineage back to the Middle East. Mizrahi Jews could perhaps be described as the closest to e.g. Jesus of Nazareth.
> My understanding of ethnicity does not negate intermarriage. Obama is half Kenyan, half European. If he had married a European, his children would look pretty European and could be considered as such, independent of customs.
> While converting to the Jewish faith is possible, it is extremely rare. It is often discouraged and in my view, converts are not real Jews. They could be part of the extended community and blend through intermarriage.
> 
> If 10mio Koreans decided tomorrow to become Jews, we would not consider them Jews. But they could become Christians or Muslims.


This conversation is circular and pointless. We’ll have to agree to disagree. You *just* said that if you had a Chinese wife, your half-Chinese child wouldn’t be considered truly Chinese, now you’re back-pedalling and introducing “halfsies”. Jews discourage conversion, but not because they don’t want there to be more Jews - they do it because being a Jew is rough. There’s no shortage of antisemites in the world, so if you want to “become a Jew”, you’re effectively asking to be persecuted against - they generally want to be sure you know what you’re getting into.


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## smf (Apr 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So am I ethnically Chinese then once I reach a high level of fluency, listen to Chinese music and enjoy Beijing Opera and duck?
> Would my hypothetical non-Chinese children become ethnically Chinese?
> Nonsense, and you know it.


nonsense indeed.

ethnicity is about a group, not about an individual.

If you and several thousand other people did it & kept it going for a few generations & built your entire culture around it, then sure you'd be an ethnic minority.

You wouldn't become chinese though.

nice to see you're still busy building strawmen.


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## smf (Apr 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If 10mio Koreans decided tomorrow to become Jews, we would not consider them Jews. But they could become Christians or Muslims.


Yes, they would be jews.

_Generally, in modern secular usage Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion, those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion._


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 21, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> You *just* said that if you had a Chinese wife, your half-Chinese child wouldn’t be considered truly Chinese


False. I said if I had children with e.g. a European and my children grew up in China (speaking Chinese, and enjoying Chinese culture), they still would not be Chinese.
A Kenyan does not become Dutch by living in the Netherlands. No matter his language ability. He could be absorped into Dutch society, including intermarriage and one day his lineage would be considered ethinically Dutch. This is what has been going on with Jewish converts. (except if you believe the Khazar narrative)

@smf: by religion (see your quote), not by ethnicity; Christian=religion; Jewish=ethnicity and/or religion


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 21, 2022)

smf said:


> If you and several thousand other people did it & kept it going for a few generations & built your entire culture around it, then sure you'd be an ethnic minority.


Clarify the last part, please. I am already an ethnic minority in China (though my ethicity is not recognized). But I wouldn´t become Chinese.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> False. I said if I had children with e.g. a European and my children grew up in China (speaking Chinese, and enjoying Chinese culture), they still would not be Chinese.
> A Kenyan does not become Dutch by living in the Netherlands. No matter his language ability. He could be absorped into Dutch society, including intermarriage and one day his lineage would be considered ethinically Dutch. This is what has been going on with Jewish converts. (except if you believe the Khazar narrative)
> 
> @smf: by religion (see your quote), not by ethnicity; Christian=religion; Jewish=ethnicity and/or religion


Then you’ve totally confused me, because that’s what I understood from this exchange so far. You started with learning English, then moved on to having children - I assumed with the locals. Not that it matters anyway.


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## djpannda (Apr 21, 2022)

Fascist say what?


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## Xzi (Apr 23, 2022)

Instaroleplay said:


> The ukrainian goverment is controlled by the Queen, George Soros and the international cabal.


LMAO okay kid.  Add more tinfoil to your hat.


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## Tomato123 (Apr 23, 2022)

Instaroleplay said:


> Despite the lies of the western media, russia is completely owning ukraine. Maoupul fell, Kievs next. I understand they have to keep pushing the lie that Putin is losing, as Russia being the victors is embarrasing to the Brandon administration, yet another failure of this trainwreck of a presidency, but that doesnt modify the truth. Ukraine will tumble. It doesnt mtter the amount of rocket launchers or blankets Brandon and his indian shiba harris dog sends.  This is Crimea 2.0.


I don't know about anyone else, but the sources I read don't say Russia is losing. Just that their inability to actually penetrate some of Ukraine's defences is kinda pathetic for a military of their strength. They are breaking through, just a whole lot slower than they really should be. And the slower they are, the more time people/countries have to provide aid towards Ukraine. Russia blew their chance for a quick victory so the bodies are piling up. Just unnecessary bloodshed from Russia over a war they made up reasons to begin.


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## Xzi (Apr 23, 2022)

Tomato123 said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but the sources I read don't say Russia is losing. Just that their inability to actually penetrate some of Ukraine's defences is kinda pathetic for a military of their strength. They are breaking through, just a whole lot slower than they really should be. And the slower they are, the more time people/countries have to provide aid towards Ukraine. Russia blew their chance for a quick victory so the bodies are piling up. Just unnecessary bloodshed from Russia over a war they made up reasons to begin.


This is correct.  Russia has recently scaled back their goals from conquering all of Ukraine to instead just conquering parts of the East and South of it.  But the tide is starting to turn even on those fronts, as more and more weapons shipments arrive in Ukraine.  Russia is quickly running out of their own functional equipment and combat vehicles, and the stuff Ukraine is receiving is much newer/better engineered.


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## yusuo (Apr 23, 2022)

Instaroleplay said:


> Despite the lies of the western media, russia is completely owning ukraine. Maoupul fell, Kievs next. I understand they have to keep pushing the lie that Putin is losing, as Russia being the victors is embarrasing to the Brandon administration, yet another failure of this trainwreck of a presidency, but that doesnt modify the truth. Ukraine will tumble. It doesnt mtter the amount of rocket launchers or blankets Brandon and his indian shiba harris dog sends.  This is Crimea 2.0.


Next up on stupid hillbilly gullible republican


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## Coto (Apr 24, 2022)

Meanwhile United States/Europe governments doing nothing  """"hoping to normalize"""" the Ukraine situation, our taxes are going directly into financing the russian meatgrinder, now taking place in Odesa:


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## leon315 (Apr 24, 2022)

it's nice to keep this topic *warming,* meanwhile Ukraine is under the fire&blood, anyone has any idea what is going on under the counter? Here we are  :


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## Xzi (Apr 25, 2022)

leon315 said:


> it's nice to keep this topic *warming,* meanwhile Ukraine is under the fire&blood, anyone has any idea what is going on under the counter? Here we are  :



TLDW.  Ukraine's significance to both the West and Russia can be explained in a couple sentences.  Not only is the country a geographic buffer between Russia and the West/NATO, Ukraine has also traditionally been "the brains" of Russia for a long time.  Virtually every newer warship and combat vehicle currently in use by the Russian military was manufactured in Ukraine, including the recently sunk Moskva.  Ukraine is also a hub for technological innovation, to a far greater extent than Russia has ever been.

All that said, the war has now reached a point where the most Putin could possibly hope to capture is small portions of Eastern and Southern Ukraine.  What's there?  Oil and gas production/reserves.  Putin is unsurprisingly becoming more short-sighted and small-minded as this invasion drags on and his failures pile up.  Whatever pittance he could possibly sell Ukraine's gas for is not worth turning the whole of Ukraine against him for generations to come.  They're of far greater strategic value as an ally than as an enemy.

The media angle in all of this is obvious, it's a world power invading their much smaller neighbor.  You honestly think it wouldn't be the top story in international news if the US invaded Mexico?  Even Afghanistan and Iraq were constantly in the news for years following our invasion.


----------



## westward (Apr 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Jesus you're a real piece of work.  Willing to convince yourself of anything so long as it allows you to justify playing the 'enlightened centrist.'  Suffice it to say that if the current Ukrainian government was half as corrupt as you claim, the war never would've happened because Putin would've just bought them out.
> 
> 
> Clearly not that bad though, or you wouldn't be shit talking their leaders who have stuck by them this whole time, throughout all the pain and suffering.


Nothing is black and white.

Their government is corrupt as it gets - Slavic leaders have said "corruption is unfortunately in our nature" probably due to the brutality of the USSR and the cold war in general, neither side was right IMO... Hunter Biden laptop confirmed after 2 years of denials from media. I don't think Joe should be blamed for the mistakes of his son, but if he was getting money from it, I don't like that. I am an independent voter and question everything politicans say in general..

When I was young, I never voted outside Democrat party for social issues, but I think awareness is there now and can't be stopped., however blaming a gun for killing someone, in my opinion, is like blaming a car for killing someone.  And handguns are the real trouble statistically speaking.   I'm also a hunter, I use ~$5 bullets because my worst nightmare is shooting a deerr or it to run off to die.  I love animals but Deer are overpopulated where I live, and at least I'm not eating something killed in a slaughterhouse.. They are usually terrible conditions, but I'll do the work myself (could never shoot a cow TBH so I buy beef at the market.   I'm unobservant Jewish because if you've read through a Talmud, you will read so much hate towards others and I feel sorry for those who think they are better than anyone else... my parents got kicked out of Temple when they fell on hard times, so there is that too, however they only went bc of the community they live in to start with.. they don't like how they talked about everyone but themselves as 'pawns' - their words. . FTR I think what Israelis do to Palestinians  throwing rocks .. well I won't go too deep into this, more politics;; I think the Israelis have turned into what they hated most...

Back to Ukraine.. The mission goal of NATO upon forming was to 'maintain a fighting force to defeat the USSR'. The USSR no longer exists for 30 years, and NATO expands further and further.  Noam Chomsky warned us of this...I disagree w/ many of his views, just like everyone does w/ each other. 

l, I think all life is precious They banned the Russian language, and 1/3rd of the country speaks it. I don't like either leaders or souls being taken, but I beg of everyone, watch this documentary.  Donbass (2016) on IMDB for more info. French mother of two who thought what you thought then went there. Most footage was taken right after the revolution. A French mother went there thinking exactly how you do, and she found just the opposite.. another side of the coin and horrific..


 I respect your opinion, I just disagree.

Respectfully,
Westwald


----------



## Xzi (Apr 25, 2022)

westward said:


> Nothing is black and white.
> 
> Their government is corrupt as it gets - Slavic leaders have said "corruption is unfortunately in our nature" probably due to the brutality of the USSR and the cold war in general, neither side was right IMO... Hunter Biden laptop confirmed after 2 years of denials from media. I don't think Joe should be blamed for the mistakes of his son, but if he was getting money from it, I don't like that. I am an independent voter and question everything politicans say in general..


Imperialism is as close to black and white as it gets.  There's the invader and the invaded.  In the context of the modern world, there's really only one time the invaders were doing it for the "right" reasons, and they specifically invaded a country that had invaded others first.  I'm talking about WW2 of course.

Russia's government is as corrupt as it gets.  Ukraine's government was in the process of weeding out corruption within their own ranks, and has even continued to do so during the war.



westward said:


> Back to Ukraine.. The mission goal of NATO upon forming was to 'maintain a fighting force to defeat the USSR'. The USSR no longer exists for 30 years, and NATO expands further and further. Noam Chomsky warned us of this...I disagree w/ many of his views, just like everyone does w/ each other.


Cool story, but NATO was not the aggressor here.  History will forever mark that as Russia's title to bear in this conflict.



westward said:


> l, I think all life is precious They banned the Russian language, and 1/3rd of the country speaks it. I don't like either leaders or souls being taken, but I beg of everyone, watch this documentary. Donbass (2016) on IMDB for more info. French mother of two who thought what you thought then went there. Most footage was taken right after the revolution. A French mother went there thinking exactly how you do, and she found just the opposite.. another side of the coin and horrific..


I'm sure life has been very hard in pro-Russian parts of Ukraine during a time when Russia has constantly been threatening Ukraine's sovereignty.  For every dark documentary you can dig up on Ukraine, however, I could probably show you five about Russia.  For fuck's sake, they aren't even reporting their own dead back to the families, just following around the soldiers with mobile crematoriums.  If they don't even care about their own, you know they wouldn't think twice about committing war crimes against any nation on Earth.  

Whatever little humanity there might've once been inside of Vladimir Putin has long since dissipated.  The hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have been forcibly relocated to Russia are going to be put through hell, assuming they aren't simply executed outright.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 25, 2022)

A retired German general compared the support for Ukraine to the Western encouragement vis-a-vis Poland before WW2. Danzing had a special status which Poland repeatedly violated. Hitler offered to suspend their claim on a border city between Poland, Germany and Czechoslovakia, but Poland was emboldened by Western countries to provoke Germany.

Western countries just love it when there is bloodshed in Eastern Europe. (my comment)


----------



## Xzi (Apr 25, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> A retired German general compared the support for Ukraine to the Western encouragement vis-a-vis Poland before WW2. Danzing had a special status which Poland repeatedly violated. Hitler offered to suspend their claim on a border city between Poland, Germany and Czechoslovakia, but Poland was emboldened by Western countries to provoke Germany.
> 
> Western countries just love it when there is bloodshed in Eastern Europe. (my comment)


LMAO man seriously just had the thought in his head, "I'm gonna compare Russia to the Third Reich, but in a _positive_ way." There is no justifying Hitler's actions retroactively, and there is no justifying Adolf Putler's actions now.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Apr 25, 2022)

The Nazis and Soviet Union do have things in common, they both invaded Poland in September 1939.

not only that Putin uses the B/S that Hitler used in 1939, we've not forgotten the past, history repeating its self, just replace 'Russia' with 'Germany' and 'Poland' with 'Ukraine'



> On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland. They also falsely claimed that Poland was planning, with its allies Great Britain and France, to encircle and dismember Germany



https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/invasion-of-poland-fall-1939#:~:text=Invasion and Partition of Poland,to encircle and dismember Germany.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 26, 2022)

The League of Nations recorded the countless illegal activities by the Polish government against Danzig.
Something does not become untrue if it is part of propaganda. Ukraine, the West and Russia are engaged in propaganda right now. Doesn´t mean every statement is false.

With regards to Poland and Germany: There was not too much but too little appeasement. Perhaps the war could have been avoided. However, Hitler (unlike some other figures in his party who he got killed) saw Eastern Europe as populated by subhumans. So, who knows...
This is view is still shared today. It is just expressed differently. E.g. recently on German TV (Markus Lanz, millions of viewers) a woman said Russians look European but they are not, they simply do not care about life as much as we do.
Hitler was willing to ruin his country to be part of the Germanic/Western world and kill those Eastern hordes, as Zelensky is today.

And as back then, the Angloamericans could sit back and laugh about wanna-be Westerners sacrificing themselves.


----------



## Xzi (Apr 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> However, Hitler (unlike some other figures in his party who he got killed) saw Eastern Europe as populated by subhumans. So, who knows...
> This is view is still shared today.


No shit.  Putin views both Ukrainians and lower-class Russians as subhumans.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Hitler was willing to ruin his country to be part of the Germanic/Western world and kill those Eastern hordes, as Zelensky is today.
> 
> And as back then, the Angloamericans could sit back and laugh about wanna-be Westerners sacrificing themselves.


Completely smooth-brained take, not only because it compares the invader to the invaded, but also because Hitler had no interest in buddying up to America.  Nobody's laughing about what's happening in Ukraine except for perhaps the alt-right scum that lives in our sewers.  And that's because they're on Putin's side and war crimes make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Completely smooth-brained take, not only because it compares the invader to the invaded, but also because Hitler had no interest in buddying up to America.  Nobody's laughing about what's happening in Ukraine except for perhaps the alt-right scum that lives in our sewers.  And that's because they're on Putin's side.


Hitler didn´t want war with the Angloamericans. He respected them and looked up to them. He saw the Bolshevik revolution as the biggest threat, just like the Americans right after May 8th.

Angloamerican soldiers were treated better thatn East Europeans and Jews. It is a fact. If you think there is no racial element to this, you are sadly misinformed. There is a certain book you could read... something about struggle, you know?


----------



## Xzi (Apr 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Hitler didn´t want war with the Angloamericans. He respected and looked up to them. He saw the Bolshevik revolution as the biggest threat, just like the Americans right after May 8th.


All Hitler wanted in the beginning was to get into art school, but that's ultimately irrelevant.  He would've turned his attention to conquering the rest of the world after conquering Europe, given the chance.  He was mad about the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor not because they did it, but because of _when_ they did it.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Angloamerican soldiers were treated better thatn East Europeans and Jews.


I can't imagine POW camps in Japan were too much fun, but this isn't a competition.  There's no excuse for cheering for pain and suffering in Ukraine here and now.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Apr 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> All Hitler wanted in the beginning was to get into art school, but that's ultimately irrelevant.  He would've turned his attention to conquering the rest of the world after conquering Europe, given the chance.  He was mad about the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor not because they did it, but because of _when_ they did it.


It is funny how you (plural and you specifically) turn Hitler (and now Putin) into cartoon villians. Hitler was not about conquering the world but conquering "Lebensraum" (living space) for the Germans in the East. If you had read his book, you´d know this. He regarded Russians as lower humans who one could dispose of. And he did. But he failed.


Xzi said:


> I can't imagine POW camps in Japan were too much fun, but this isn't a competition.  There's no excuse for cheering for pain and suffering in Ukraine here and now.


Depends who you were. The Japanese viewed the Chinese the same way the Germans viewed (and still view) Russians. That´s why Japanese treated American POW much better. Again, a racial component you want to deny.


----------



## Coto (Apr 27, 2022)

Ukraine commander makes plea for Mariupol evacuation​


----------



## spoggi (May 2, 2022)

Im afraid that if Russia lose the war against Ukraine, Putin and his henchmen will blame
Nato for their defeat, and take it out against Nato countries.
Hopefully not wit nuclear weapons. But that is just something i have thought about.
Already Putin blame the western world for interfering, with heavy weapon supply.


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## Coto (May 2, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Im afraid that if Russia lose the war against Ukraine, Putin and his henchmen will blame
> Nato for their defeat, and take it out against Nato countries.
> Hopefully not wit nuclear weapons. But that is just something i have thought about.
> Already Putin blame the western world for interfering, with heavy weapon supply.


That's correct. And the invasion list was extended since their plans to "peacefully take over" have failed. So the plan has changed. They went old school and began invading countries, and forcing people to go communist. Putin just declared he'd now target Moldavia, Rumania


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## spoggi (May 2, 2022)

Coto said:


> That's correct. And the invasion list was extended since their plans to "peacefully take over" have failed. So the plan has changed. They went old school and began invading countries, and forcing people to go communist. Putin just declared he'd now target Moldavia, Rumania


Hope this woman will not be right with her predictions

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sian-president-Vladimir-Putin-Lord-World.html


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## JoeBloggs777 (May 2, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Hope this woman will not be right with her predictions
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sian-president-Vladimir-Putin-Lord-World.html


more chance of this happening, rumours are Putin is having an operation for cancer, obviously everyone wishes him all the best


----------



## GeekyGuy (May 4, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> ...What's your take on this?


----------



## Coto (May 9, 2022)




----------



## Coto (May 12, 2022)

Church sheltering refugees was shelled by Russian troops​


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## djpannda (May 12, 2022)

Finland’s leaders call for NATO membership ‘without delay’​...yup Russia attacked Ukriane because 
1. Ukraine was going to attack first
2. NAZI 
3. STOP NATO from Russian Borders

Now PUTIN going to DEAL with NATO ... and UK has already promised article 5 for Finland.
( I don't think NATO was ever the real Reason for Russia attack. This was just PUTIN mad grab for more land and power before Cancer kills him.)


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 13, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Finland’s leaders call for NATO membership ‘without delay’​...yup Russia attacked Ukriane because
> 1. Ukraine was going to attack first
> 2. NAZI
> 3. STOP NATO from Russian Borders
> ...


Finland is not Ukraine. It was also part of the Russian Empire but the relationship was not very deep. Russia might respond by putting nukes in Kaliningrad, depending on what the US is going to do. There aren´t millions of Russians in Finland as a result of the dissolution of the USSR.
If Finland wants to be an American bitch, it can go ahead and do that. It won´t make it a safer place. In the 70s, upon hearing that the United States would tactically nuke Germany in a war scenario, the former German Chancellor Schmidt responded to his shocked colleauge by saying "Do not worry, I will declare Germany neutral if it comes to that".


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## djpannda (May 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Finland is not Ukraine. It was also part of the Russian Empire but the relationship was not very deep. Russia might respond by putting nukes in Kaliningrad, depending on what the US is going to do. There aren´t millions of Russians in Finland as a result of the dissolution of the USSR.
> If Finland wants to be an American bitch, it can go ahead and do that. It won´t make it a safer place. In the 70s, upon hearing that the United States would tactically nuke Germany in a war scenario, the former German Chancellor Schmidt responded to his shocked colleauge by saying "Do not worry, I will declare Germany neutral if it comes to that".


Wtf? Why are you talking about Germany in the 70s….. you do know… ah shucks it’s not even worth it as even China is slowing walking away from Russia… I just wait a couple of weeks until either China buys Russia wholesale or just ghosts Putin as it does not want to deal with the sanctions


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## djpannda (May 13, 2022)

Oh look More Countries are ignoring Russia’s “guarantee  of not invading  security”  and look to be “American’s bitch” lol man .. America’s a Pimp daddy..


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## rber (May 13, 2022)

hello there
cope


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## Xzi (May 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is funny how you (plural and you specifically) turn Hitler (and now Putin) into cartoon villians.


They turned themselves into cartoon villains.  All I did was recount the process by which that happened.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Hitler was not about conquering the world but conquering "Lebensraum" (living space) for the Germans in the East.


Riiight...and the invasion of Ukraine is a "limited operation," wink wink.  However reasonable you think Hitler might've sounded in the beginning, all that went out the window when he started taking meth and attempting to conquer all of Europe.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Depends who you were. The Japanese viewed the Chinese the same way the Germans viewed (and still view) Russians. That´s why Japanese treated American POW much better. Again, a racial component you want to deny.


No shit sherlock, Japan and China had been fighting for centuries before world war 2.  That didn't make the torture techniques used on American POWs any less painful, shoving bamboo chutes under fingernails is as excruciating as it gets.


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## rber (May 13, 2022)

having said that however,


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## djpannda (May 13, 2022)

anyone notice all those mysterious "Fires" popping up in Russia
Especially in Irkustk region.. they have several "fires" couple in residential  and a Huge one in the forrest.

 and then some trains were "cancelled" ....

oh it looks like Separatists are are already trying to piece out the Former Russia


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## spoggi (May 14, 2022)

When nature does the job for Ukraine


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## KuntilanakMerah (May 15, 2022)

just a matter of time putin make them muted like fish if they're planing join up with nato


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## Xzi (May 15, 2022)

Turns out cancer can catch cancer.  Who knew?

https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...ing-putin-has-blood-cancer-report-says-2022-5


----------



## Creamu (May 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> this situation is a Simple one...(the gender orientation doesn't really matter, you can add any gender you want)
> the *Girl (Ukraine) *want to date a* New Boyfriend (NATO) *but the* Old Boyfriend (Russia) *is standing in the way because the *Old Boyfriend (RUSSIA)* believes that the *Girl (Ukraine) *should always belong to the *OLD BOYFriend (Russia). *so the *OLD BOYFriend (Russia)* is threatening the *Girl (Ukraine) *"IF I cant have you, no one will


That is a very odd description of the situation. It is not that simple.



> To separate Ukraine today means to cut through millions of families and people: just consider how mixed the population is; there are whole regions with a predominantly Russian population; how many people there are who find it difficult to choose which of the two nationalities they belong to; how many people are of mixed origin; how many mixed marriages there are (by the way, nobody has until now thought of them as mixed).
> 
> -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1990


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## djpannda (May 15, 2022)

Oh look Putins getting what he wished for … 

*A Super Powered NATO*


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## djpannda (May 15, 2022)

Ok look NATO just got 1/4 stronger 
And makes Russia argument void by stating no nukes in boarder countries


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Wtf? Why are you talking about Germany in the 70s…..


Because the politcian who was present at the meeting mentioned in on German television a few days ago. Germany would be nuked by the US for tactical reasons.

Ukraine could have had EU cooperation in terms of trade, but  the EU had to include the establishment of a common security structure (another word for NATO alignment or membership) in their 2014 proposal. Instead Ukraine is sacrificing itself for American interests of hurting Russia. (which is the stated goal by the US defense minister)


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## djpannda (May 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Because the politcian who was present at the meeting mentioned in on German television a few days ago. Germany would be nuked by the US for tactical reasons.
> 
> Ukraine could have had EU cooperation in terms of trade, but  the EU had to include the establishment of a common security structure (another word for NATO alignment or membership) in their 2014 proposal. Instead Ukraine is sacrificing itself for American interests of hurting Russia. (which is the stated goal by the US defense minister)


Yes and now Finland and Sweden will be under the complete control of The USA  cooperation of NATO..and can’t wait for all the “Stans” countries to realize Russian promise of invasion security and join NATO also


----------



## Coto (May 16, 2022)




----------



## KingVamp (May 16, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Yes and now Finland and Sweden will be under the complete control of The USA  cooperation of NATO..and can’t wait for all the “Stans” countries to realize Russian promise of invasion security and join NATO also


United Earth of America.

Not saying NATO is the best solution, but clearly we are better off with it.


----------



## djpannda (May 16, 2022)

extremely Interesting Video today
By a Russian in Russia, stating that
Russia already publicly released all agreements with Nato and NONE OF them have any mention of Nato expansion.

Russia media states that the agreement *might be verbal in 1990 with Gorbachev but theres 3 issues with that
1. that would of been made with USSR not Russia
2. Russia Government  has yet to provide any exact info on agreement ( verbal or written)
3. Gorbachev is silent on the matter ( this is a big deal as he is still  mentally stable and giving alot of interviews and commentary but NEVER stated about NATO agreement)
IF this was an ounce truth. Russia would of paraded Gorbachev all over to justify Crying about NATO expansion.


also 
Putin has to call FINLAND and apologize about Threats to Finland by Russian politician. "NO THREAT from NATO expansion"

and by doing so Has Made Russia Wars with Ukraine even more apparent is* just a LAND GRAB*
​


----------



## lokomelo (May 17, 2022)

All this situation is so crazy that may end up with everybody losing. Russia might lose on field, reputation, economy, Ukraine is losing civilians already, the damage of Russia cruelty will leave scars forever, USA may have its expansion dreams locked by Turkey even after spending billions and Europe is already having a not-so-bad economic scratch, it will be fine, but it is losing something.

It is confirmed: war is a dumb thing (like it was not confirmed already).


----------



## Creamu (May 17, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> All this situation is so crazy that may end up with everybody losing.


Don't forget. There are people out there happy to see both russians and ukrainians die. They are ultimativly the winners of this. Evil people. When will it ever end?


lokomelo said:


> USA may have its expansion dreams locked by Turkey even after spending billions and Europe is already having a not-so-bad economic scratch, it will be fine, but it is losing something.


Interesting observation, will keep an eye on this.


lokomelo said:


> It is confirmed: war is a dumb thing (like it was not confirmed already).


It's so evil, the ukrainians could never compete with a power like russia, yet they are forcing their man to stay in the country and fight. This is a erradication of the ukrainian people, how terrible. What about the women and children, who will look after them? What will happen to them? If human trafficers grap them, who will go after them? terrible terrible


----------



## djpannda (May 17, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> All this situation is so crazy that may end up with everybody losing. Russia might lose on field, reputation, economy, Ukraine is losing civilians already, the damage of Russia cruelty will leave scars forever, USA may have its expansion dreams locked by Turkey even after spending billions and Europe is already having a not-so-bad economic scratch, it will be fine, but it is losing something.
> 
> It is confirmed: war is a dumb thing (like it was not confirmed already).


Nah Turkey is looking  declaring PPK a terrorist group first  and in fact there’s already been Talks that turkey is going to accept once that’s been iron out pretty soon


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## lokomelo (May 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Nah Turkey is looking  declaring PPK a terrorist group first  and in fact there’s already been Talks that turkey is going to accept once that’s been iron out pretty soon


Let Erdogan kill the Kurds in exange of an American military expansion. Makes sense, USA will definitely try that.


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## djpannda (May 17, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Let Edorgan kill the Kurds in exange of an American military expansion. Makes sense, USA will definitely try that.


...ok... I never stated USA .. Nor is this issue an American issue.. 
its a* Turkey/ Kurdish and Finland/Sweden issue..*


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## djpannda (May 17, 2022)

MISSION ACOMPLLISHED THANX PUTIN


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ...ok... I never stated USA .. Nor is this issue an American issue..
> its a* Turkey/ Kurdish and Finland/Sweden issue..*


NATO is always an American issue. NATO is powder keg idea. You don´t want the whole world converge into two camps. It is very dangerous (cf. Europe before WW1).

Imagine if Russia, China, Syria and Iran were to enter an alliance which states "if one is attacked, all are being attacked". Even though Iran and Syria would be much safer, I wouldn´t want to take this risk.
Not to mention if that alliance tried to convince Venezuela and other states in Latin America to join.
Perhaps the US would attack Venezuela and then the Russians would send billions worth of arms to Venezuela, stating on television that "the brave Venezuelians are defending our freedom" 
I hear this sentence constantly on German television with regards to Ukraine.


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## djpannda (May 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> NATO is always an American issue. NATO is powder keg idea. You don´t want the whole world converge into two camps. It is very dangerous (cf. Europe before WW1).
> 
> Imagine if Russia, China, Syria and Iran were to enter an alliance which states "if one is attacked, all are being attacked". Even though Iran and Syria would be much safer, I wouldn´t want to take this risk.
> Not to mention if that alliance tried to convince Venezuela and other states in Latin America to join.
> ...


... . it was called Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship
and it blow up in their faces ... 
Infact that Im pretty sure thats the exact reason NATO was recreated.. but .. I understand how forgetting to ackledged that is convenient to your sudo-fassist Communist agenda ..sorry your *Support* because you long abandoned the practice of those ideals for  European Comfort.


----------



## Xzi (May 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> NATO is always an American issue. NATO is powder keg idea. You don´t want the whole world converge into two camps. It is very dangerous (cf. Europe before WW1).
> 
> Imagine if Russia, China, Syria and Iran were to enter an alliance which states "if one is attacked, all are being attacked". Even though Iran and Syria would be much safer, I wouldn´t want to take this risk.
> Not to mention if that alliance tried to convince Venezuela and other states in Latin America to join.
> ...


You continue to pretend like Russia minding their own fucking business was never an option.  Without the invasion of Ukraine there would be far fewer new applicants to NATO, that I can guarantee.


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## lokomelo (May 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ... . it was called Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship
> and it blow up in their faces ...
> Infact that Im pretty sure thats the exact reason NATO was recreated.. but .. I understand how forgetting to ackledged that is convenient to your sudo-fassist Communist agenda ..sorry your *Support* because you long abandoned the practice of those ideals for  European Comfort.


USA indeed would invade (or finance coup d'etat in) any Latin American country if it were about to join a military alliance with one of it's enemies. It is not "sudo-fassist Communist" to realize something that have being happening a huge number of times for like a century already.

This is not a defense of Putin in any measure, we are allowed to hate both Russian and USA imperialism, I even believe we should. (And hating the imperialism of a nation is not hating the nation itself, as I am a huge fan of what USA build to its citizens in terms of freedom and rights).


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ... . it was called Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship
> and it blow up in their faces ...
> Infact that Im pretty sure thats the exact reason NATO was recreated.. but .. I understand how forgetting to ackledged that is convenient to your sudo-fassist Communist agenda ..sorry your *Support* because you long abandoned the practice of those ideals for  European Comfort.


NATO was created as an anti Russian/Soviet alliance. The Sino-Soviet treaty was between ROC (cf Taiwan) and the USSR. Why should I mention this? What I said remains true: Dividing the world like that is dangerous.
A Syrian-Russian alliance would have kept the US from attacking and occupying Syria (most people do not even know they are still doing it), but I don´t want to live in a world in which an attack on Syria leads to WW3, even if it would protect Syria.


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## djpannda (May 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The Sino-Soviet treaty was between ROC (cf Taiwan) and the USSR. Why should I mention this? What I said remains true: Dividing the world like that is dangerous.


..oh so by your logic, the ROC agreement  are  not valid , .. than that would state any USSR agreement are also void. Cool so the make believe NATO expansion agreement is not* valid also as 1990 was with USSR

EDIT*** also it looks like your making up shit so you don't look foolish  as PROC as created on 1949  and the Sino-Soviet Treaty was signed on 1950 with Stalin and Mao
SEE BELOW




Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance​
*Sorry I didnt not catch that at the Start.. I should know better then take Sino-Soviet points at face value*


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (May 17, 2022)

and the penny drops for the Putin fans


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 17, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..oh so by your logic, the ROC agreement  are  not valid , .. than that would state any USSR agreement are also void. Cool so the make believe NATO expansion agreement is not* valid also as 1990 was with USSR


Strawman. I do not decide the government of China, the Chinese do. I do not view contracts between your mother and the Taliban as invalid. What is the point of that? Turkey could be kicked out of NATO. So what? *In principle, Russia, Sryia, China etc create their own version of NATO, which wouldn´t make the world safer. Do you disagree??*


djpannda said:


> EDIT*** also it looks like your making up shit so you don't look foolish  as PROC as created on 1949  and the Sino-Soviet Treaty was signed on 1950 with Stalin and Mao
> SEE BELOW
> 
> 
> ...


THERE WAS A TREATY OF 1945 and one of 1949.

https://military-history.fandom.com... Soviet Socialist Republics at 14 August 1945.
"

Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Alliance     Not to be confused with Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance."

your quote:
"it was called Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship
and it blow up in their faces"


----------



## djpannda (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Strawman. I do not decide the government of China, the Chinese do. I do not view contracts between your mother and the Taliban as invalid. What is the point of that? Turkey could be kicked out of NATO. So what? *In principle, Russia, Sryia, China etc create their own version of NATO, which wouldn´t make the world safer. Do you disagree??*
> 
> THERE WAS A TREATY OF 1945 and one of 1949.
> 
> ...


… lol  you sweating and reaching for that straw


----------



## djpannda (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Strawman. I do not decide the government of China, the Chinese do. I do not view contracts between your mother and the Taliban as invalid. What is the point of that? Turkey could be kicked out of NATO. So what? *In principle, Russia, Sryia, China etc create their own version of NATO, which wouldn´t make the world safer. Do you disagree??*
> 
> THERE WAS A TREATY OF 1945 and one of 1949.
> 
> ...


But the Treaty although similarly name are two different ideals and Purposes.
1945 was about China having protection andguarantees from the Soviets against  Japan and to cement borders between them and Mongolia 
1950. Was about communist countries banding together to stop capitalism from What they believed was western capitalism expansion
Mostly similar names but  they are not the same and in fact the ROC considered it Soviet Betryal to acknowledge the CCP during the Chinese Civil War

 so the CCP and Soviets use similar name to white wash their betrayal


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (May 18, 2022)

NATO = No Action Talk Only


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 18, 2022)

djpannda said:


> so the CCP and Soviets use similar name to white wash their betrayal


So what? I am neither a CPC member nor Soviet representative.
Do you think an anti-American alliance (e.g. Russia, China, Iran) with a three-musketeers credo would make the world a safer place or increase the danger of nuclear war?

The Chinese (or e.g. the Indians) do not enter an alliance like that because they have wisdom. The West is led by fanatics.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (May 18, 2022)

I'm confident that Finland and Sweden are safer in NATO. After all, Russia invaded the non-NATO countries Ukraine and Georgia, but didn't dare touch NATO countries.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> I'm confident that Finland and Sweden are safer in NATO. After all, Russia invaded the non-NATO countries Ukraine and Georgia, but didn't dare touch NATO countries.


Ukraine and Georgia would not have been attacked if there had not been Western interference. Finland and Sweden would be safer in NATO but the world would be less safe.
Cuba would be safer with Russian missiles pointing at Washington but you and I would not be.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ukraine and Georgia would not have been attacked if there had not been Western interference.



That's like when domestic violence abusers say the victims are to blame because they didn't subjugate to their every whim.


----------



## djpannda (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Finland and Sweden would be safer in NATO but the world would be less safe.


Translation: Russia is mad that Neighboring countries aren't listening to them and that they don't want to Join the New RUSSIA USSR willingly like colonel Lukashenka's Belarus
 RUSSIA ::: if you don't follow me I will Nuke/Invade you ( to literally most of the countries surrounding them)


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 18, 2022)

In a perfect world Russia would sing Kumbaya with its neighbors.

That´s not how large powers behave in the real world. The difference is: USA attacks countries all over the world, Russia only in its region.

The USA thinks it can tell the Solomon Islands what to do regarding alliances. I have yet to hear a counter argument.


----------



## djpannda (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In a perfect world Russia would sing Kumbaya with its neighbors.
> 
> That´s not how large powers behave in the real world. The difference is: USA attacks countries all over the world, Russia only in its region.
> 
> The USA thinks it can tell the Solomon Islands what to do regarding alliances. I have yet to hear a counter argument.


when
1. you tag me or reply to my message so I get notified that you were speaking to me
2.  When the Thread is Titled " American imperialism " We can start speaking about it ( as It personally affects me as a victim of American imperialism)

Til them This Spefic thread is about the War Crime/ Special Military  Operation ( whatever your Government allows) that Russia is committing and the Ramification of those actions.
NOT your *whataboutisms*.


----------



## Coto (May 18, 2022)

My respects to Finland and Sweden:

You've taken the right path.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 18, 2022)

djpannda said:


> when
> 1. you tag me or reply to my message so I get notified that you were speaking to me
> 2.  When the Thread is Titled " American imperialism " We can start speaking about it ( as It personally affects me as a victim of American imperialism)
> 
> ...


Whataboutism is not an argument. It is the admission of not having an argument.

I have stated that the Russian response has not been anything special or unforeseen. Any big power would behave in this way if it is pushed. Cuba 62 and the recent threat against the Solomon Islands are evidence you do not want to discuss.

I appreciate that we agree. Be a man and say it.


----------



## djpannda (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Whataboutism is not an argument. It is the admission of not having an argument.
> 
> I have stated that the Russian response has not been anything special or unforeseen. Any big power would behave in this way if it is pushed. Cuba 62 and the recent threat against the Solomon Islands are evidence you do not want to discuss.
> 
> I appreciate that we agree. Be a man and say it.


_so your response to me pointing out your whataboutisms is MORE whataboutisms?.. COOL _


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 18, 2022)

djpannda said:


> _so your response to me pointing out your whataboutisms is MORE whataboutisms?.. COOL _


Alright, Susi.
I might remember it incorrectly, but I wonder if you would write a comment or like a comment which states that Russia should not talk about the Neo Nazis in Ukraine because they have their own Neo Nazis.
Now isn´t that whataboutism?


----------



## djpannda (May 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Alright, Susi.
> I might remember it incorrectly, but I wonder if you would write a comment or like a comment which states that Russia should not talk about the Neo Nazis in Ukraine because they have their own Neo Nazis.
> Now isn´t that whataboutism?







I really don't think you understand whataboutism is ?

...Pointing out the make up Reason that Russia is Committing war Crimes in Ukraine  (nazis) is actually an issue Russia has internally MULTIPLE times greater is not whataboutism.... is pointing out the Flimsy excuse for Ukrainian Land Grab..

*BUTT.*..Comparing USA imperialism as an excuse to justify Russian Current Crimes is whataboutism

but hey I understand thats all you got to defend Russia indefensible  atrocities


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 18, 2022)

djpannda said:


> I really don't think you understand whataboutism is ?
> 
> ...Pointing out the make up Reason that Russia is Committing war Crimes in Ukraine  (nazis) is actually an issue Russia has internally MULTIPLE times greater is not whataboutism.... is pointing out the Flimsy excuse for Ukrainian Land Grab..
> 
> ...


It is exactly the same.
If sb mentions Ukrainian Nazis and you point to Russian Nazis, you zoom out of Ukraine to point to Russia. Just as I zoom out and point out to show the big picture.

I have never defended atrocities. Strawman.
I said it has been completely predictable. Your mother should not hit you (it is even illegal), but if you call her a whore, she will.* And if you would have done the same in her position (which I have proven with Cuba 62 and the Solomon Islands), you have no leg to stand on when criticizing her.*


----------



## djpannda (May 19, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is exactly the same.
> If sb mentions Ukrainian Nazis and you point to Russian Nazis, you zoom out of Ukraine to point to Russia. Just as I zoom out and point out to show the big picture.
> 
> I have never defended atrocities. Strawman.
> I said it has been completely predictable. Your mother should not hit you (it is even illegal), but if you call her a whore, she will.* And if you would have done the same in her position (which I have proven with Cuba 62 and the Solomon Islands), you have no leg to stand on when criticizing her.*


So more whataboutisms… to justify Russian atrocities…


----------



## KingVamp (May 19, 2022)

If anything, Putin would have attack more places while continuing to give flimsy excuses, if not for NATO.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 19, 2022)

You: "Mum, you are such a whore"
*slap*
You: "You see, you see? She is so agressive!!!"
Bystander: "Would you have done the same in her position?"
You: "Yeah sure. But do not use whataboutism to justify her aggression!!!11"


----------



## Viri (May 19, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> NATO = No Action Talk Only


Tell that to Yugoslavia. Oh wait...


----------



## masagrator (May 19, 2022)

Viri said:


> Tell that to Yugoslavia. Oh wait...


Plus Afghanistan. Attack on WTC was used to call Article 5 that started war.


----------



## Xzi (May 19, 2022)

Interesting fact: in the 90s, Putin reportedly asked Bill Clinton if Russia could join NATO.  His response was, "I don't see why not."  Had Russia done so, however, Putin wouldn't have been able to keep playing the victim, so they didn't.  It's always been performative bullshit on Putin's part.


----------



## lokomelo (May 19, 2022)

luccus said:


> Good always defeats evil.


Kin Jong-un is on power, Saudi Arabia still has a monarch, Lukashenko is on power since 1994, Iranian revolutionaries still on power, Bashar al-Assad still on power, Taliban have won, and that's just what I remembered in right now.

The world is full of examples of evil winning, and it works on long term too, the slavery states from Europe are still rich while the nations they assaulted are still poor for example.


----------



## spoggi (May 19, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Kin Jong-un is on power, Saudi Arabia still has a monarch, Lukashenko is on power since 1994, Iranian revolutionaries still on power, Bashar al-Assad still on power, Taliban have won, and that's just what I remembered in right now.
> 
> The world is full of examples of evil winning, and it works on long term too, the slavery states from Europe are still rich while the nations they assaulted are still poor for example.


Evil might win but then they go to hell


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 19, 2022)

Don´t be so sure. The Orthodox Patriarch is on good terms with Putin. And the Catholic Pope recently blamed the West for the war. Isn´t he representative of Christ on earth?


----------



## invwar (May 19, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You: "Mum, you are such a whore"
> *slap*
> You: "You see, you see? She is so agressive!!!"
> Bystander: "Would you have done the same in her position?"
> You: "Yeah sure. But do not use whataboutism to justify her aggression!!!11"


Physical or corporal punishment by a parent or other legal guardian is any act causing deliberate physical pain or discomfort to a minor child in response to some undesired behavior. It typically takes the form of spanking or slapping the child with an open hand or striking with an implement such as a belt, slipper, cane, hairbrush or paddle, hanger, and can also include shaking, pinching, forced ingestion of substances, or forcing children to stay in uncomfortable positions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home

tldr: In most countries (accusing russia) this is an aggressive, non tolerated move by the mum. A physical aggression is NEVER the right move for a non-physical.


----------



## spoggi (May 19, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Don´t be so sure. The Orthodox Patriarch is on good terms with Putin. And the Catholic Pope recently blamed the West for the war. Isn´t he representative of Christ on earth?


Im pretty sure that if christ came down to earth, he would kick the catholic cardinals in the asses
just because they are representive of christ doesn't mean he would do the same.


----------



## lokomelo (May 19, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Im pretty sure that if christ came down to earth, he would kick the catholic cardinals in the asses
> just because they are representive of christ doesn't mean he would do the same.


Jesus today would be crucified by Americans for having socialist ideas, like healing people for free. How dare he?


----------



## Dr_Faustus (May 19, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Don´t be so sure. The Orthodox Patriarch is on good terms with Putin. And the Catholic Pope recently blamed the West for the war. Isn´t he representative of Christ on earth?


Yeah and the Pope was fine with the Nazi's back in the second world war as well. Did that make it a better scenario? Not at all.

Also not everyone sees the Pope as the representative of Christ, not even those directly under his flock. He is meant to serve as an authoritative head of the Catholic religion and even so over the years this has become less of a fact and more of a statement of dressing in the same way that the "Queen of Britain" is not actual authority of the country but is instead just a fancy title given to the royal family who are just the same tier as celebrities now. These roles are not done out of necessary, its done out of tradition now and nothing more. 



lokomelo said:


> Jesus today would be crucified by Americans for having socialist ideas, like healing people for free. How dare he?


Even the recent Pope of times stated that he was  had no problems with gay people and even pushed to say to support them even though there would be many in his flock that would very much disagree with him. It just shows what real little authority the Pope has anymore. 

Its not about doing good things for others, its about being proud of themselves while everyone else around them suffers.


----------



## LoggerMan (May 19, 2022)

96 pages, which page of them was this thread first Godwined?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 22, 2022)

Ukraine has cut off its gas transit from Russia to the EU.
Germany must be quite happy about still having North Stream 1. 
It is hypocritical of Germany to still maintain it. 

If gas supplies become scarce, will transit nations within the EU refuse to share their gas?
If the gas situation leads to social unrest in European countries, would it be immoral for Russia to send money to protesters and their vice president to those countries? (cf Maidan 2014)
Will school books in EU countries teach about supply and demand instead of anal sex in order to better understand why Russia is making a lot of money right now? Or is anal sex education necessary to understand how f*cked Europe will be unless they start Operation Barbarossa 2.0 to conquer the resources themselves?

Questions upon questions.


----------



## ut2k4master (May 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ukraine has cut off its gas transit from Russia to the EU.
> Germany must be quite happy about still having North Stream 1.
> It is hypocritical of Germany to still maintain it.
> 
> ...


those arent questions those are ramblings of a mad man


----------



## lokomelo (May 22, 2022)

People talk like Europa would froze without Russia. Energy and heat may be achieved other ways. May take a handful of years to set up everything, but Europeans will survive.

The real vital and valuable Russian export is Vodka, but the Polish and the Finish will save us from a tragic Vodka-less world.

We don't need any empire to have our lives the way they are.


----------



## Xzi (May 22, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> People talk like Europa would froze without Russia. Energy and heat may be achieved other ways. May take a handful of years to set up everything, but Europeans will survive.
> 
> The real vital and valuable Russian export is Vodka, but the Polish and the Finish will save us from a tragic Vodka-less world.
> 
> We don't need any empire to have our lives the way they are.


With as small as most European countries are, I'm surprised they haven't converted to 100% renewables already.  The only major hurdle for that in the US is transporting/storing the energy generated by solar panels and windmills, and so I imagine the only thing holding Europe back is the greed of major oil conglomerates and their lobbyists.


----------



## Coto (May 22, 2022)

Nazi Russia torturing 10000+ civilians (only 4000 reported by United Nations)


----------



## Coto (May 26, 2022)

Game Developers died defending Ukraine:




> Defending the Ukrainian Land against Russia, the developer of games *Alexander Goncharuk* has died.
> Recently it became known about the death of Alexander Goncharuk, who worked in the gamedev industry.
> Alexander died during a battle with the Russians on May 12.
> 
> He was a junior sergeant on medical assignments. That day he saved many of his brothers, but the mine took his life.



Source

-



> Mikhail Novikov, the ab games developer, was killed. He defended Ukraine.
> We are sad to announce the death of Mikhail Novikov, who was a lead developer at AB Games.
> He died defending the Ukraine from the Russian invaders. This was told by the head of the company Anton Bolshakov.



Source


----------



## XGARXS (May 26, 2022)

Awful, poor people


----------



## Coto (May 27, 2022)

Russia following instructions to cause starvation worldwide:


----------



## lokomelo (May 27, 2022)

Coto said:


> Russia following instructions to cause starvation worldwide:



Brazil is out of Fertilizers, it is not Russian propaganda.

Sanctions is a measure applied by USA half dozen of times against their enemies, never worked before but somehow people believe that magically will work now. Not that I can think of alternatives, but it is not my call isn't it?

The human side of sanctions on other hand are nasty. Russian, Cubans, Iranians, etc, even the ones that do not like their respective governments do suffer a lot. Civilians, people that are far from the army or the politics are the ones who suffer most. Presidents, Ministers and so on don't give a shit, their luxuries will keep.

For Europeans and Americans the effort to defeat Russia is just few cents more on each liter on fuel pump. For the third world is more people dying from starvation.

Nothing of that is Russian propaganda, your video is the only propaganda. Russia need to be stopped, the killings need to be stopped and spreading the word that sanctions are a holy peace medicine will not help for that.


----------



## Coto (May 27, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Brazil is out of Fertilizers, it is not Russian propaganda.
> 
> Sanctions is a measure applied by USA half dozen of times against their enemies, never worked before but somehow people believe that magically will work now. Not that I can think of alternatives, but it is not my call isn't it?
> 
> ...


You are the socialist brazilian looking into Socialism. You know propaganda much better than me, I only tell the truth.
Holodomor.... something? 

Source 1



> The deputy mayor of Mariupol, Sergiy Orlov, describes people sheltering in basements trying to survive without food, medicine or a power supply, and drinking melted snow because the water has been cut off. In Chernihiv, March 16, a line of 10 civilians queuing for bread outside a grocery shop were killed by Russian troops. Ukrainian intelligence reports indiscriminate shelling and targeting of agricultural machinery, fields and grain stores; and civilians are being blocked from leaving besieged towns and cities or killed whilst fleeing. This is a playbook familiar to any monitoring similar starvation crimes in Syria, Yemen, Tigray or South Sudan.
> 
> A few very elderly Ukrainians will remember the forced starvation of the Holodomor of 1932-33, when a combination of brutally enforced collectivization and punitive confiscation of food killed about three million Ukrainians through the resulting famine. It was the occasion for Stalin’s infamous remark ‘if only one man dies of hunger, that is a tragedy; if millions die, that’s only statistics.’ He was wrong: every Ukrainian knows the story, deeply carved into their collective memory. After Ukrainian independence, monuments to the victims of famine were constructed in Kiev and Kharkhiv.




-

Source 2



> Russia accused of exploiting fears of global starvation​RUSSIA was yesterday accused of "blackmail" after offering to free up food supplies from Ukraine in exchange for the lifting of sanctions.​



-

Holodomor event



> The Holodomor , also known as* the Terror-Famine or the Great Famine,* was* a famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians.* The Holodomor famine was part of the wider Soviet famine of 1932–1933 which affected the major grain-producing areas of the country.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 27, 2022)

Russia knows that famines in the developing world will lead to an influx of refugees to Germany etc, not Russia. It is fighting dirty without declaring war.


----------



## crueI (Jun 1, 2022)

Please stop getting your news from legacy publications and TV networks.  It's doing a disservice to all of humanity.
Welcome to the information war.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 1, 2022)

The war is over. 50 billion dollars for extending the war well spent. :s


----------



## Tomato123 (Jun 2, 2022)

Creamu said:


> The war is over. 50 billion dollars for extending the war well spent. :s


Any source? As far as I can see, it's still going.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 2, 2022)

Tomato123 said:


> Any source? As far as I can see, it's still going.


https://english.almayadeen.net/news...p-orders-battalion-to-stop-fighting-amid-mass
We can discuss the details, but this means it is over. There is no recovering from that.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 2, 2022)

Well here we are 10 days after the article and still fighting


----------



## Tomato123 (Jun 2, 2022)

Creamu said:


> https://english.almayadeen.net/news...p-orders-battalion-to-stop-fighting-amid-mass
> We can discuss the details, but this means it is over. There is no recovering from that.


Allowing a single city to fall into Russia's control means the war is over... okaaaaaay...

Most civilians had been evacuated/killed already in the city which is why they decided to stop defending that specific city, not all of their territory. The war is still going and a single city is likely not going to be the deciding factor in when it ends.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 2, 2022)

Tomato123 said:


> Allowing a single city to fall into Russia's control means the war is over... okaaaaaay...
> 
> Most civilians had been evacuated/killed already in the city which is why they decided to stop defending that specific city, not all of their territory. The war is still going and a single city is likely not going to be the deciding factor in when it ends.


I see your point, and it's valid. My point is, without the Azov battalion this game of chess is over (in realtiy it is a horrible war of course...) practically speaking.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 8, 2022)

See told you what, Russia is strong and US are too afraid to confront directly with Russia

US just like a tyrone bullying lil kids, he's afraid losing when facing stronger opponents just like in Vietnam wars


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 8, 2022)

mark my words soon us dollars is meaningless they just like a common papers without value, i'm investing Rubble after they embargo Russia, now i get the profits


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> See told you what, Russia is strong and US are too afraid to confront directly with Russia
> 
> US just like a tyrone bullying lil kids, he's afraid losing when facing stronger opponents just like in Vietnam wars





KuntilanakMerah said:


> mark my words soon us dollars is meaningless they just like a common papers without value, i'm investing Rubble after they embargo Russia, now i get the profits


Delusional.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> See told you what, Russia is strong and US are too afraid to confront directly with Russia


USA would be extremely foolish to confront russia directly. There is always the economic powerhouse china on the chessboard.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 8, 2022)

Creamu said:


> USA would be extremely foolish to confront russia directly. There is always the economic powerhouse china on the chessboard.




nearly as  as this


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> nearly as  as this



Sorry I can't watch a video when the thumbnail is so hideous...


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 8, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Sorry I can't watch a video when the thumbnail is so hideous...



I know what you mean, there was rumour's that Dobby was based on Pootin 

yes he's been foolish, NATO will expand with Sweden and Finland, mass exodus of western companies shutting down in Russia, increasing unemployment. The West will massively reduce the amount of oil and gas they buy from Russia, thousands of dead Russian, Ukrainians and civilians and the lies he told to the Russian people . If this is not foolish I don't know what is


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> there was rumour's that Dobby


What is that?


JoeBloggs777 said:


> yes he's been foolish, NATO will expand with Sweden and Finland, mass exodus of western companies shutting down in Russia, increasing unemployment. The West will massively reduce the amount of oil and gas they buy from Russia, thousands of dead Russian, Ukrainians and civilians and the lies he told to the Russian people . If this is not foolish I don't know what is


If you think the american economy will muster the situation better than russia, I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 8, 2022)

Creamu said:


> What is that?
> 
> If you think the american economy will muster the situation better than russia, I don't know what to tell you.



well with crippling sanctions on Russia, sure Putin will  say they have little  effect on Russia, look at the rubble back to what it is, but wait til later in the year when the sanctions really start biting.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

Anyway, I hope the war will end soon. So many ukrainian men have died, what has it achieved?


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 8, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Anyway, I hope the war will end soon. So many ukrainian men have died, what has it achieved?



ask Putin, They died because Russians invaded THEIR country.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> ask Putin, They died because Russians invaded THEIR country.


Putin told me that ukkraine was a pawn of the west.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 8, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Putin told me that ukkraine was a pawn of the west.


then why he did not invade the west instead? He is not man enough?


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> then why he did not invade the west instead? He is not man enough?


Putin told me that he didn't want america next door, just like the USA didn't enjoy cuba's diplomatic ties to the sowjet union.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 8, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Putin told me that he didn't want america next door, just like the USA didn't enjoy cuba's diplomatic ties to the sowjet union.


if he's enemy is the USA, then why he did not fought it? Is he coward?

I believe he is, he talk loud only against the weak.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 8, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> if he's enemy is the USA, then why he did not fought it? Is he coward?
> 
> I believe he is, he talk loud only against the weak.


This is not how war between two big military powers works these days.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> well with crippling sanctions on Russia, sure Putin will  say they have little  effect on Russia, look at the rubble back to what it is, but wait til later in the year when the sanctions really start biting.


The worst part of the sanctions has already occured. Western countries, esp. the US, stole Russian assets in the hundreds of billions USD. Reducing trade hits the Europe harder than Russia because the resources are located within Russia.
In order to damage Russia, the US is willing to plunge the world economy into even more trouble. Hyper inflation incoming.

@lokomelo: For the same reason the US attacked smaller countries like Vietnam/Laos and Korea instead of China. The only difference, Russia does it in their backyard while the US does it all over the world.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The worst part of the sanctions has already occured. Western countries, esp. the US, stole Russian assets in the hundreds of billions USD.


Yes, and they have payed with the loss of trust on the global stage.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Reducing trade hits the Europe harder than Russia because the resources are located within Russia.


Yes, especially germany.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In order to damage Russia, the US is willing to plunge the world economy into even more trouble. Hyper inflation incoming.


Yes, it was bound to happen anyway. At least they can point their fingers at something/one.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 9, 2022)

So many armchair experts here! I'm glad I missed the dumpster fire of the previous page


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## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Russia has already wiped out 15 years of economic gains in a few months. And for what? So Putin can feel strong one last time before cancer kills his degenerate ass? Tragic all around, not just for Ukraine but also for the people of Russia who opposed this invasion and will suffer the consequences of his actions for decades to come anyway.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Russia has already wiped out 15 years of economic gains in a few months. And for what? So Putin can feel strong one last time before cancer kills his degenerate ass? Tragic all around, not just for Ukraine but also for the people of Russia who opposed this invasion and will suffer the consequences of his actions for decades to come anyway.


And first and foremost the ukrainians. These are the brothers and sisters of the russian. What could have possibly caused this conflict... oh yeah, evil Putler. This happens when culture regresses to crude comicbook movies.


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## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> And first and foremost the ukrainians. These are the brothers and sisters of the russian. What could have possibly caused this conflict... oh yeah, evil Putler. This happens when culture regresses to crude comicbook movies.


Megalomaniacal dictators existed long before comic book movies or modern culture, believe it or not.  So whatever point you're trying to make here is moot.  Bad people do exist, and really bad shit does happen when you give them power.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Megalomaniacal dictators existed long before comic book movies or modern culture, believe it or not.  So whatever point you're trying to make here is moot.  Bad people do exist, and really bad shit does happen when you give them power.


The comicbook movie conception of histroy however is a new phenomenon.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> And first and foremost the ukrainians. These are the brothers and sisters of the russian. What could have possibly caused this conflict... oh yeah, evil Putler. This happens when culture regresses to crude comicbook movies.


We don't have time here for apologists of fascism, despite the amount of proto-fascist incels that infest these forums like fungus.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> We don't have time here for apologists of fascism, despite the amount of proto-fascist incels that infest these forums like fungus.


Maybe get more serious with your intellectual endeavours and things like this would not happen.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> The comicbook movie conception of histroy however is a new phenomenon.


People all interpret history in different ways, but the history being written before our eyes is clear as day.  Putin had *zero* reason or justification to invade Ukraine. That doesn't make him a supervillian, it just makes him an objectively evil piece of shit.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> People all interpret history in different ways, but the history being written before our eyes is clear as day.  Putin had *zero* reason or justification to invade Ukraine.


And yet he is killing his brothers and sisters, I mean come on!


Xzi said:


> That doesn't make him a supervillian, it just makes him an objectively evil piece of shit.


This is a problem we are facing on a civilisational level. How simple minded can a populus become before the structural fruits of a fargone civilisation is finally going to collapse.

This is not meant to be personal, just a general observation.


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## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> And yet he is killing his brothers and sisters, I mean come on!


Why you gotta sound sarcastic?



Creamu said:


> This is a problem we are facing on a civilisational level. How simple minded can a populus become before the structural fruits of a fargone civilisation is finally going to collapse.
> 
> This is not meant to be personal, just a general observation.


If you're implying that the US might some day soon have to deal with its own tyrannical dictator who decides to invade a country unilaterally, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you.  It won't be the people who go to superhero movies bowing down to him, though.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Why you gotta sound sarcastic?


Sorry if it made that impression. Do you seriously believe that Putin is killing his brothers and sisters without a reason?


Xzi said:


> If you're implying that the US might some day soon have to deal with its own tyrannical dictator who decides to invade a country unilaterally, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you.  It won't be the people who go to superhero movies bowing down to him, though.


US is an anarcho tryanncial system, and the superhero movie crowd is compliant.


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## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Do you seriously believe that Putin is killing his brothers and sisters without a reason?


His reason is he wants Ukraine's resources.  That's not an acceptable or good reason, though.  It's just imperialism and/or fascism.



Creamu said:


> US is an anarcho tryanncial system, and the superhero movie crowd is compliant.


There's nothing "anarcho" about the US, we're just a capitalist democracy in decline, well on its way to becoming an oligarchy.  Nobody living here has a choice when it comes to participating in that, so I say let people have whatever escapism they want or can find some comfort in.


----------



## Creamu (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> His reason is he wants Ukraine's resources.  That's not an acceptable or good reason, though.  It's just imperialism and/or fascism.


He will kill his brothers and sisters because he wants their resources. It doesn't hold up on its own.


Xzi said:


> There's nothing "anarcho" about the US,


https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/us-homicide-rate-increase-nchs-study/index.html


Xzi said:


> we're just a capitalist democracy in decline,


Well it depends on the framing then.


Xzi said:


> well on its way to becoming an oligarchy.


It's been that for quite a while.


Xzi said:


> Nobody living here has a choice when it comes to participating in that, so I say let people have whatever escapism they want or can find some comfort in.


Yes, at least offer them quality escapism. This comic book stuff is extremely low grade.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Bad people do exist, and really bad shit does happen when you give them power.


Ignorant people also exist. There are approx. 100mio Russians who think like Putin. Ukraine was a red line, even for many pro-Western Russians in Russia. I do not need news media to tell me this. But even the media occasionally mentioned this.

Countries aren´t evil or good. Countries have interests. The rest is facade. You should now this if your age is double digit.


----------



## Maximumbeans (Jun 9, 2022)

SantinoA said:


> I don't think we can say anything for certain, only our speculations.


Exactly—


SantinoA said:


> It is obvious that all journalists lie.


...huh.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> He will kill his brothers and sisters because he wants their resources. It doesn't hold up on its own.


Not for a reasonable human being it doesn't, no.  But Vlad stopped being that a long, long time ago.



Creamu said:


> https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/us-homicide-rate-increase-nchs-study/index.html


That makes us a mentally disturbed nation with too many guns, not anarchist.  The police only truly protect and serve the capitalist ruling class by design.



Creamu said:


> Yes, at least offer them quality escapism. This comic book stuff is extremely low grade.


Did you see any of the superhero movies of the late 90s/early 00s?  Now _those _were total shit.  OTOH I really like a lot of what Marvel is doing recently, Multiverse of Madness was great as a horror hybrid.  The Boys on Amazon is also really great as a superhero-themed satire of capitalism and fascism.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ignorant people also exist. There are approx. 100mio Russians who think like Putin. Ukraine was a red line, even for many pro-Western Russians in Russia. I do not need news media to tell me this. But even the media occasionally mentioned this.


Nah I call bullshit.  The subtext there is that Russians know they'd be subject to retaliation for speaking in protest of Putin's actions.  Additionally it was probably a landline poll that only boomers responded to, and the Kremlin would've made the numbers look favorable to them regardless.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Countries aren´t evil or good. Countries have interests. The rest is facade. You should now this if your age is double digit.


Putin is not Russia.  Dictators have interests too, and they often run contrary to those of the nations they rule over.


----------



## Coto (Jun 9, 2022)




----------



## spoggi (Jun 9, 2022)

Heard Putin has died. Atleast according to british intelligence service
Have not seen him in tv for awhile. But another of his generals would take over if it's true


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 9, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Sorry if it made that impression. Do you seriously believe that Putin is killing his brothers and sisters without a reason?


He has his own warped reasons.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Nah I call bullshit.  The subtext there is that Russians know they'd be subject to retaliation for speaking in protest of Putin's actions.  Additionally it was probably a landline poll that only boomers responded to, and the Kremlin would've made the numbers look favorable to them regardless.


If reality does not allign my beliefs, reality needs to falter. I am not talking about surveys but real people I know personally. I am not only talking about now but also before the war. If even pro-Western liberals (which do not make up part of the majority of the opposition; something the West likes to ignore) see Ukraine as a red line, then allmost all the others do to. I was generous with the 100mio. Could be 120mio or more. Are they also evil? At what point will you adjust your beliefs to reality? (red line here means: would warn against it, not that they support the war or its consequences)
BTW my liberal Russians friends are not that afraid to talk to me honestly. The law targets public statements. Because everyone knows (including everyone in Putin´s party and those who vote for it - yeah, they exist, a lot of them!) that this is a war. Everyone who says otherwise does so to keep up morale. This is what happens in a WAR. You know who also punishes dissent? The Western-backed Ukrainian government. Western media even covers and praises the government breaking into people´s homes and threatening them for being pro-Russian.


Xzi said:


> Putin is not Russia.  Dictators have interests too, and they often run contrary to those of the nations they rule over.


Putin is not a dictator. Not any more than Biden. Both have unbelievable constitutional power (with some differences here and there; except that Biden is not running anything due to his age and how he was elected). But they are elected. And don´t you mention election fraud. This is not the thread for it. Let´s just say Russia is not the only country...


----------



## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If reality does not allign my beliefs, reality needs to falter. I am not talking about surveys but real people I know personally. I am not only talking about now but also before the war.


I'm not interested in anecdotal evidence, that's even more useless than whatever the Kremlin is reporting out of convenience at a given time.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Putin is not a dictator. Not any more than Biden. Both have unbelievable constitutional power (with some differences here and there; except that Biden is not running anything due to his age and how he was elected). But they are elected. And don´t you mention election fraud. This is not the thread for it. Let´s just say Russia is not the only country...


Dictators are not elected, and Putin hasn't taken part in a legitimate election in decades.  Additionally, Biden has almost zero power without the consent of Congress, while Putin regularly has members of his own cabinet murdered for so much as looking at him funny.  Even a failing democracy looks and operates a lot different than Putin's Russia.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The worst part of the sanctions has already occured. Western countries, esp. the US, stole Russian assets in the hundreds of billions USD. Reducing trade hits the Europe harder than Russia because the resources are located within Russia.
> In order to damage Russia, the US is willing to plunge the world economy into even more trouble. Hyper inflation incoming.
> 
> @lokomelo: For the same reason the US attacked smaller countries like Vietnam/Laos and Korea instead of China. The only difference, Russia does it in their backyard while the US does it all over the world.



no the worse is yet to come for Russia. The money that's been frozen should be given to the Ukraine  so it can go towards rebuilding the destruction Russia caused.



> Global banking experts believe Russia's economy will shrink 15% by the end of the year - and a further 3% in 2023 - due to Western sanctions, a mass exodus of companies and a collapse in exports.
> 
> The figures could be even worse if Europe fully weans itself off Russian energy, the Institute of International Finance (IIF) warned.
> 
> In a report about the effects of war on Russia's finances, the IFF said measures imposed on Moscow by the UK, EU and US would only expand and tighten in the coming months.



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-6052...a0c1b1f755a85722b1db46&pinned_post_type=share


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Putin is not a dictator. Not any more than Biden.



not a dictator  now where is the opposition to Putin, oh Navalny, Putin tired to kill him  and label him a terrorist , now did Trump try that with Biden ?


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Jun 9, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Heard Putin has died. Atleast according to british intelligence service
> Have not seen him in tv for awhile. But another of his generals would take over if it's true


Im pretty sure if he had we would have heard something more about it if it were true.

Its similar to the rumors of when the head of NK supposedly got sick of covid and died last year, due to the very same assumptions of no public showing of himself for awhile up until he did come back.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 9, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> Im pretty sure if he had we would have heard something more about it if it were true.
> 
> Its similar to the rumors of when the head of NK supposedly got sick of covid and died last year, due to the very same assumptions of no public showing of himself for awhile up until he did come back.



something going on thou..


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I'm not interested in anecdotal evidence,





Xzi said:


> Putin regularly has members of his own cabinet murdered for so much as looking at him funny.


Stop contradicting yourself. Names please.

The problem is not that you dismiss anecdotal evidence. The problem is you dismiss evidence that contradicts your world view. The view that Western military in Ukraine (which had already happened prior to the Russian invasion) goes too far is a view shared by the vast majority of Russians - including liberals. IT IS A FACT. Deal with reality. Now are they also evil or not? Be a man and say so.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> not a dictator  now where is the opposition to Putin, oh Navalny, Putin tired to kill him  and label him a terrorist , now did Trump try that with Biden ?


So if Trump had tried to kill Julian Assange (https://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/politics/kfile-trump-wikileaks/index.html)
that would make him a dictator, right? Didn´t Trump also say - when being asked whether Putin is a killer - that the US also kills a lot of people?

The Navalny case is by no means conclusive.
Perhaps Putin wanted to kill Navalny. Perhaps it was a personal matter. Perhaps it was someone from an ethnic minority he had offended (by Western standards Navalny is a Nazi). Perhaps it was a fan of Putin. Who killed JFK? God knows.
Until we know it is a conspiracy theory.


----------



## Dr_Faustus (Jun 9, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> something going on thou..



I do not doubt it, I am sure as hell that he is sick and or possibly dying. One of my theories way back when this shit first started was that he was basically having a last ride off into the sunset by going full Cold War 2.0 on everything. He knows he is not getting out of this situation with his head held high, but he does not care. He is going to have his fun until he croaks believing he took Ukraine back.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Stop contradicting yourself. Names please.


https://www.newsweek.com/every-russ...since-putin-invaded-ukraine-full-list-1700022

These are just the oligarchs that have "mysteriously" died during the invasion of Ukraine.  Many had spoken out against it directly or indirectly.  We all know Putin is responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of other murders in Europe well before the invasion.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The problem is not that you dismiss anecdotal evidence. The problem is you dismiss evidence that contradicts your world view. The view that Western military in Ukraine (which had already happened prior to the Russian invasion) goes too far is a view shared by the vast majority of Russians - including liberals. IT IS A FACT. Deal with reality. Now are they also evil or not? Be a man and say so.


Ridiculous, not even the Kremlin tried to claim this before invading.  They only bitched about the vague possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and then called Ukrainians nazis.  Shit was the flimsiest, most transparent excuse ever.  You can't re-write that history.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Dr_Faustus said:


> I do not doubt it, I am sure as hell that he is sick and or possibly dying. One of my theories way back when this shit first started was that he was basically having a last ride off into the sunset by going full Cold War 2.0 on everything. He knows he is not getting out of this situation with his head held high, but he does not care. He is going to have his fun until he croaks believing he took Ukraine back.


Western ignorance at its best: Let´s personify the problem. Once the person is gone, everything will be alright. Works so great in Western democracies, doesn´t it?

Putin is one of the calmest and predictable politicians on the international stage. The invasion was threatened and announced by the troops at the border. The US kept pushing instead (sending weapons, holding exercises, encouraging the regime to take back the Donbass). Here we are. He is perhaps bold (I also did not expect an actuall invasion) but certainly not unpredictable. 

If you want to believe that Russians are a people who need saving because they are held captive by an evil dictator, go ahead. The dumb fuck well. In Russia, well fucks the dumb.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> https://www.newsweek.com/every-russ...since-putin-invaded-ukraine-full-list-1700022
> 
> These are just the oligarchs that have "mysteriously" died during the invasion of Ukraine.  Many had spoken out against it directly or indirectly.  We all know Putin is responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of other murders in Europe well before the invasion.


Have you read the article? None of them link the victims to Putin. You have to first show that they were opposed to him before we even begin discussing this. Being an oligarch is dangerous, esp. if your money came from shady sources. Being Russian is increasingly dangerous as well thanks to dehumanization on e.g. German television.
I´m not saying Putin is innocent. I`m saying I need more than this. It is not even anecdotal evidence. It is "the butler did it" evidence.



Xzi said:


> Ridiculous, not even the Kremlin tried to claim this before invading.  They only bitched about the vague possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and then called Ukrainians nazis.  Shit was the flimsiest, most transparent excuse ever.  You can't re-write that history.


Claim what? That Western military in Ukraine is a bad idea? It is fucking implied in a NATO membership. The Kremlin talked about it all the time (!)
Or does NATO membership mean that Ukrainian troops are stationed in Washington? NATO membership means the empire sends its troops.

Let me come back to my question. Don´t avoid the question. I will even give you a relative clause. IF 100mio (or more) Russians think US/Western military in Ukraine is a red line that should not be crossed - ARE THEY EVIL?
Be a man and answer, please.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Claim what? That Western military in Ukraine is a bad idea?


They never claimed there was any Western military presence in Ukraine as their reason for invasion.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is fucking implied in a NATO membership.


No, NATO membership implies protection against invasion, which Russia was opposed to because they wanted to invade, as clearly demonstrated by their actions.  It wasn't even under consideration at the time Russia invaded.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Let me come back to my question. Don´t avoid the question. I will even give you a relative clause. IF 100mio (or more) Russians think US/Western military in Ukraine is a red line that should not be crossed - ARE THEY EVIL?
> Be a man and answer, please.


I'm not going to answer pointless hypotheticals.  There are Russians who believe the Kremlin's propaganda, and there are Russians who see right through it.  Nearly all of them will suffer as a result of Putin's actions, and they shouldn't have to.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Xzi said:


> They never claimed there was any Western military presence in Ukraine as their reason for invasion.
> 
> 
> No, NATO membership implies protection against invasion, which Russia was opposed to because they wanted to invade, as clearly demonstrated by their actions.  It wasn't even under consideration at the time Russia invaded.


Now you are playing dumb.
NATO membership implies US troops in Ukraine, not the other way around. There are no Latvian, Polish, German or French troops in the US. It is a one-way street and you know it.

The whole conflict was about NATO membership. One of the demands prior to the war was a written promise to exclude NATO membership. The US said they could not give such a promise (while telling Zelensky secretely that Ukraine cannot become a member - see video evidence of his speaking about it).

You are either in denial or trying to mislead others.


Xzi said:


> I'm not going to answer pointless hypotheticals.  There are Russians who believe the Kremlin's propaganda, and there are Russians who see right through it.  Nearly all of them will suffer as a result of Putin's actions, and they shouldn't have to.


It is not pointless. I have exposed your Disney world view and you are not man enough to say out loud the implications of your thinking. Putin is evil for holding certain beliefs about Ukraine. So do about 100mio Russians (if not more). I gave you an "if" clause and you are still not willing to answer.
You are again perpetuating the myth of victimhood. Russians are not victims, you fucking racist. They know more about the West than the Westerners do about Russia. Shove your savior complex up yours. Westerners have not changed one bit. Instead of Jesus, "democracy" is now doing the saving.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 9, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Now you are playing dumb.


No, you're playing apologist to fascism.  NATO is a protective alliance, it only makes a move when one of its members is threatened.  Russia hated the idea of Ukraine joining NATO because it was in the process of threatening Ukraine.  2+2=4.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The whole conflict was about NATO membership. One of the demands prior to the war was a written promise to exclude NATO membership. The US said they could not give such a promise (while telling Zelensky secretely that Ukraine cannot become a member - see video evidence of his speaking about it).
> 
> You are either in denial or trying to mislead others.


NATO membership had not been on the table for several months prior to Russia's invasion.  It was an excuse of convenience and nothing more, the Kremlin lies easier than they breathe.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You are again perpetuating the myth of victimhood. Russians are not victims, you fucking racist.


What a dumb fucking accusation.  I stand in solidarity with the working class of Russia, even those blind to the truth about Putin.  I don't blame them for his actions.  How in your mind does that equate to racism?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> They know more about the West than the Westerners do about Russia. Shove your savior complex up yours. Westerners have not changed one bit. Instead of Jesus, "democracy" is now doing the saving.


I'm not telling Russia which direction they have to take the country in post-Putin.  Transitioning to any sort of free society after living through dictatorship will be hard.  I wish them the best of luck.  What will not help them is cheerleading for a boomer dead set on restoring the "glory days" of the USSR, even if that requires genocide against their own brothers and endless war crimes.  You're trying to keep the entire region stuck in kleptocracy perpetually.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 9, 2022)

Your supremacist thinking is dripping wet. It is as pointless as talking to a Jehova´s witness. If you accuse them of blind faith, you get blind faith answers. I accused you of supremacism and I get sentences like "transitioning to any sort of free society after living through dictatorship will be hard". Unreal.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Your supremacist thinking is dripping wet. It is as pointless as talking to a Jehova´s witness. If you accuse them of blind faith, you get blind faith answers. I accused you of supremacism and I get sentences like "transitioning to any sort of free society after living through dictatorship will be hard". Unreal.


I don't think you're actually in denial that Russia is a dictatorship.  You're just out of ways to argue in favor of imperialism.  I get that China would love to have an immortal Putin around forever so that they can parade him around like a sock puppet, but that's not the reality of the situation.  If he had a lot left to lose, he wouldn't have made a nigh-suicidal move like invading Ukraine to begin with.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I don't think you're actually in denial that Russia is a dictatorship.


I don´t make judgement about other nations and their way of living. I´m not a biggot, nor do I have ideological views I want to impose on others.
Russians could criticize a lot about the US (the high taxes, money dominating politics, crime, etc) but they don´t have a religious fervor about it.
Imagine if Russia tried to topple the US government in order save American homeless people. The same feeling you get ("let them mind their own damn business") this instance is what other nations feel when it is reversed.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 10, 2022)

lol america used double standard when attacking iraq, syria, middle eastern country they said iraq develop nuclear but in the end they didn't find it they just robbing other country oil and gas using a propaganda, the dictator is the USA not Russia, Russia just protected their homeland against NATO expansion


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## Xzi (Jun 10, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I don´t make judgement about other nations and their way of living. I´m not a biggot, nor do I have ideological views I want to impose on others.


If you're willing to tolerate/ignore fascism and/or imperialism, then you might not be a bigot but you sure aren't a good person.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russians could criticize a lot about the US (the high taxes, money dominating politics, crime, etc) but they don´t have a religious fervor about it.
> Imagine if Russia tried to topple the US government in order save American homeless people. The same feeling you get ("let them mind their own damn business") this instance is what other nations feel when it is reversed.


More whataboutism and pointless hypotheticals.  I have no issue with Russians who criticize the US government, but if they've been brainwashed into believing every US citizen is their enemy, that's a different matter.



KuntilanakMerah said:


> lol america used double standard when attacking iraq, syria, middle eastern country they said iraq develop nuclear but in the end they didn't find it they just robbing other country oil and gas using a propaganda, the dictator is the USA not Russia, Russia just protected their homeland against NATO expansion


"Protecting their homeland" would mean some other country invaded Russia first.  That isn't what happened and you know it.  Putin was and remains the sole aggressor in this scenario.

Oh, and to the shock of nobody, Putin recently admitted that the war is all about expanding Russian territory, undermining his previous rationale for the invasion.  Had absolutely nothing to do with NATO, the plan was always to invade.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If you're willing to tolerate/ignore fascism and/or imperialism, then you might not be a bigot but you sure aren't a good person.


Once again you are confirming that you are post-Christian religious fanatic. You think of yourself as a good person while Russians are evil or brainwashed and need your saving.



Xzi said:


> More whataboutism and pointless hypotheticals.  I have no issue with Russians who criticize the US government, but if they've been brainwashed into believing every US citizen is their enemy, that's a different matter.


Whataboutism is only an argument for people who are unable to empathize. I know your religious beliefs prevent you from doing so, but try seeing the world from the perspective of other nations. Americans (at least the elites) feel threatened by one possible Chinese military station in the Solomon islands. But America has hundreds, many of them surrounding China. This is imperialism. Just because Latvia does not appear on your world map in the same color as the US, does not mean it is not part of the US empire. There are no Latvian soliders in America. It is ALWAYS the other way around. The empire sends its troops. 
If you want to know how Russians feel, imagine they want to topple your government in order to save your people. You already know part of the feeling, see the Russia-Trump hysteria which turned out to be a nothing burger. Now amplify this feeling times a thousand.


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## Xzi (Jun 11, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Once again you are confirming that you are post-Christian religious fanatic. You think of yourself as a good person while Russians are evil or brainwashed and need your saving.


Putin is evil.  Putin is not Russia.  Just as Joe Biden and/or Donald Trump are not America.  You already know this to be the case, so stop being disingenuous.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Whataboutism is only an argument for people who are unable to empathize.


So you're telling on yourself?  I've stuck to the subject at hand while you constantly refer back to things the US has done in the past, despite the fact that nobody has made the claim that the US was in the right.  Imperialism is fucked no matter who's engaging in it.  Period.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I know your religious beliefs prevent you from doing so, but try seeing the world from the perspective of other nations.


I'm agnostic.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you want to know how Russians feel, imagine they want to topple your government in order to save your people.


That'd be great.  We haven't had a properly functioning democracy in eons and Americans are too apathetic to change things from within.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You already know part of the feeling, see the Russia-Trump hysteria which turned out to be a nothing burger. Now amplify this feeling times a thousand.


Trump wants to be dictator just like Putin and takes all his cues from Putin, yes.  That wouldn't be the same as "toppling" our government, it would only be handing full control of it to a sociopathic out-of-touch oligarch.  I never suggested the US should install their own puppet leader in Russia, the Russian people must decide how to move forward on their own once Putin is gone.  He has nobody but himself to blame for the corner he's backed himself into, though I'm sure you'll keep trying to point the finger anywhere else regardless.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Putin is evil.  Putin is not Russia.  Just as Joe Biden and/or Donald Trump are not America.  You already know this to be the case, so stop being disingenuous.


Putin is much more Russia than Biden is America. Speaking of democracy...


Xzi said:


> So you're telling on yourself?  I've stuck to the subject at hand while you constantly refer back to things the US has done in the past, despite the fact that nobody has made the claim that the US was in the right.  Imperialism is fucked no matter who's engaging in it.  Period.


Making comparisons and exposing double standards are part of a debate. If one does not have an argument against it, one refers to "whataboutism" as if giving it a name makes it go away. It doesn´t.


Xzi said:


> I'm agnostic.


You speak like a religious fanatic using terms like good and evil and judging nations by your standards. No different from Christian colonialists back in the day.


Xzi said:


> That'd be great.  We haven't had a properly functioning democracy in eons and Americans are too apathetic to change things from within.


Dishonest. You don´t believe that. Weren´t you also supporting the "Trump is a Putin puppet" claim? I´d hate to look into your history. Just tell me yes or no.


Xzi said:


> I never suggested the US should install their own puppet leader in Russia, the Russian people must decide how to move forward on their own once Putin is gone.


What if they continue to want Putin as their leader? Do they first have to ask you? Unless he is ill, he could stay for another decade. He is 10 years younger than Biden.
What if the next person is just as hardline regarding NATO? Must the Russian people decide or you?


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Putin is much more Russia than Biden is America.


Who's being racist now?  Russians on average are not scum-sucking leeches on society like Putin is.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Making comparisons and exposing double standards are part of a debate. If one does not have an argument against it, one refers to "whataboutism" as if giving it a name makes it go away. It doesn´t.


Or I just call out your whataboutism whenever you try to leverage it as if it's making any actual point.  "wHaT aBoUt IrAQ?"  What about Tienanmen Square?  What about the quadratic formula?  Has fuck all to do with the topic at hand.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You speak like a religious fanatic using terms like good and evil and judging nations by your standards. No different from Christian colonialists back in the day.


I'm not talking about the Christian idea of "evil," I'm talking about objective evil.  As in someone who actively brings pain and suffering not only to innocents in other countries on a daily basis, but also to the innocents in their own country.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Dishonest. You don´t believe that. Weren´t you also supporting the "Trump is a Putin puppet" claim? I´d hate to look into your history. Just tell me yes or no.


Again, overthrowing the government would not mean handing the reigns to Trump.  It would mean tossing out both our current crony capitalism and our broken two-party system that brought us Trump in the first place.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What if they continue to want Putin as their leader?


Then let him hold a legitimate election so we can find out.  He'd rather die first, which is exactly what he'll do, because he's very ill with cancer.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 12, 2022)

He has been re-elected time and again. His popularity decreased during the retirement reforms but he has always been popular. I don´t care if you believe me. It is pointless talking to a brick wall. Travel the world as your missionaries once did. Perhaps it will open your eyes.
I will let the Russians know that you volunteer as an election observer. They surely appreciate it. Please ask Biden wether he will allow Russian observers and perhaps investigators regarding 2020.


----------



## Lacius (Jun 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> He has been re-elected time and again.


You know they aren't free and fair elections, right? Right?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 12, 2022)

Lacius said:


> You know they aren't free and fair elections, right? Right?


Says your media. Their media might say yours aren´t. I´m not an election observer. Are you?
Many states in the US explicitly do not allow foreign observers. About half of the US thinks that the 2020 elections were not fair.


----------



## pustal (Jun 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Western ignorance at its best: Let´s personify the problem. Once the person is gone, everything will be alright. Works so great in Western democracies, doesn´t it?
> 
> Putin is one of the calmest and predictable politicians on the international stage. The invasion was threatened and announced by the troops at the border. The US kept pushing instead (sending weapons, holding exercises, encouraging the regime to take back the Donbass). Here we are. He is perhaps bold (I also did not expect an actuall invasion) but certainly not unpredictable.
> 
> If you want to believe that Russians are a people who need saving because they are held captive by an evil dictator, go ahead. The dumb fuck well. In Russia, well fucks the dumb.


I'll give you preditability, but calmness? LOL He rushed an invasion that he wasn't prepared at all.

As for puting this on US or NATO, take it form an actual expert on the matter:


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> He has been re-elected time and again. His popularity decreased during the retirement reforms but he has always been popular.



I suppose when you control your media, you will always be popular , you know only report the good news 

does Putin mention media freedom in Russia? . probably not, with a ranking of 155 out of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index by 'Reporters without Borders' I would not believe one word from your media. 







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 12, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> I suppose when you control your media, you will always be popular , you know only report the good news
> 
> does Putin mention media freedom in Russia? . probably not, with a ranking of 155 out of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index by 'Reporters without Borders' I would not believe one word from your media.
> 
> ...


Russian media is not my media. The media I consume is mostly Western.
Western media is often only free by name. E.g. in Germany most media belongs to a few (oligopoly) which share the same views. In addition, the official media (which should be neutral according to its own laws but is not) shares the same views as the state. Only alternative media like those found on Telegram are truly free. That´s why it is being targeted.

Control of the media does not necessitate popularity. In the Soviet Union, people knew about media bias. Their leaders were often not popular.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 12, 2022)

and as for sanctions not working, what will it be like in a few months..



> ‘The return of banditry’: Russian car industry buckles under sanctions​



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-russian-car-industry-buckles-under-sanctions


----------



## Xzi (Jun 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Travel the world as your missionaries once did. Perhaps it will open your eyes.


Even if I had the funds to jet set around the world for the rest of my life, it wouldn't change my views on Putin or imperialism.  Besides, playing apologist for a soulless dictator does not make you "worldly," it just makes you look like a hypocrite and a fool.  Thieving oligarchs are not your friends and never will be.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 12, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> I suppose when you control your media, you will always be popular , you know only report the good news
> 
> does Putin mention media freedom in Russia? . probably not, with a ranking of 155 out of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index by 'Reporters without Borders' I would not believe one word from your media.
> 
> ...


I respect wikipedia, and I agree that Russia has no press freedom (like the map shows), but this map is bullshit.


----------



## spoggi (Jun 12, 2022)

Fucking Russians now forcing Ukraines to get Russian pasport. BASTARDS


----------



## spoggi (Jun 12, 2022)

Russia will probably never have a normal relation with the rest of the world
Maybe with China though


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 12, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Russia will probably never have a normal relation with the rest of the world
> Maybe with China though


Eventually they will, the international community have a very short memory. Not that I like it, but things are what they are.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Thieving oligarchs are not your friends and never will be.


I am not defending oligarchs but explaining the view of at least 100mio Russians. I.e. that Ukraine should be neutral and not have American troops on its soil. This is in fact the majority view in Russia (which you do not accept or blame on oppression; making you a bigot: everyone is oppressed until they think like I do).

There is nothing shameful about being neutral. It allows for good relationships between larger countries and break-away states. Neutrality was in fact part of the Ukrainian institution. Something the Western media does not like to mention. Instead it creates documentaries like "Suddenly (there was) War".

See Taiwan: By acknowledging that they are China, Taiwan can a have large degree of autonomy. Autonomous regions are often the result of a compromise (see Chechniya in Russia). The two Donbass oblasts would have accepted an autonomous status within Ukraine.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There is nothing shameful about being neutral. It allows for good relationships between larger countries and break-away states. Neutrality was in fact part of the Ukrainian institution. Something the Western media does not like to mention. Instead it creates documentaries like "Suddenly (there was) War".
> 
> See Taiwan: By acknowledging that they are China, Taiwan can a have large degree of autonomy. Autonomous regions are often the result of a compromise (see Chechniya in Russia). The two Donbass oblasts would have accepted an autonomous status within Ukraine.



good you don't mind being neutral, I Believe Russia should be forced to being neutral to act as a buffer zone between Europe and China. The biggest threat to the West is not little Russia but China.

good relationships between Russia and Ukraine  or China and Twain  that's never going to happen.



> China warns Taiwan independence would trigger war​


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61768875


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 12, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> good you don't mind being neutral, I Believe Russia should be forced to being neutral to act as a buffer zone between Europe and China. The biggest threat to the West is not little Russia but China.
> 
> good relationships between Russia and Ukraine  or China and Twain  that's never going to happen.
> 
> ...


Not even the USA has the balls to declare Taiwan independent.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 12, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> good you don't mind being neutral, I Believe Russia should be forced to being neutral to act as a buffer zone between Europe and China. The biggest threat to the West is not little Russia but China.
> 
> good relationships between Russia and Ukraine  or China and Twain  that's never going to happen.
> 
> ...


China is not a threat. A threat to what? China has never attacked Europe. It was the other way around.
Russia has never been part of China and is too big as a buffer zone. But if they dramatically shrank in size (which is the wish of Western elites), it would be wise not to ally with either side. An intelligent "buffer zone country" takes advantage of both sides. Ukraine without the Russian market or gas transit would be even poorer than they were prior to 2014. But they didn´t think that far ahead.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> China is not a threat. A threat to what? China has never attacked Europe. It was the other way around.
> Russia has never been part of China and is too big as a buffer zone. But if they dramatically shrank in size (which is the wish of Western elites), it would be wise not to ally with either side. An intelligent "buffer zone country" takes advantage of both sides. Ukraine without the Russian market or gas transit would be even poorer than they were prior to 2014. But they didn´t think that far ahead.


China is not a threat ?, do you know what the '9 dash line' is ?  China is the biggest threat to peace in the South China sea, if WW3 ever starts it will probably start there.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 12, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> China is not a threat ?, do you know what the '9 dash line' is ?  China is the biggest threat to peace in the South China sea, if WW3 ever starts it will probably start there.


Last time I checked Europe is not located in the South China sea. It is only a threat if the West wants to provoke China.
There are disputes between France and UK regarding fishing rights.
Should China view this as a threat and send some war ships?
Perhaps China should fight for the independence of Scotland or Northern Island and defend their fishing rights. Why can´t regional conflicts stay regional? Because of the Western mindset of world domination.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am not defending oligarchs but explaining the view of at least 100mio Russians.


Wrong, you're explaining the view of the maybe two Russians you've met in your lifetime.  The rest of their supporters you're just assuming exist because the Kremlin says they do.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I.e. that Ukraine should be neutral and not have American troops on its soil.


Ukraine is a sovereign nation that's free to host whoever they damn well please.  Which is totally irrelevant anyway, since Putin has admitted the invasion was all about expanding Russian territory.  It'd be like the US trying to make Iraq and Afghanistan the 51st and 52nd states.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There is nothing shameful about being neutral.


There is plenty shameful about invading a neighboring country that was guilty only of minding their own goddamn business.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> See Taiwan: By acknowledging that they are China, Taiwan can a have large degree of autonomy. Autonomous regions are often the result of a compromise (see Chechniya in Russia). The two Donbass oblasts would have accepted an autonomous status within Ukraine.


"Slavery is freedom, just trust me bro."


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Last time I checked Europe is not located in the South China sea. It is only a threat if the West wants to provoke China.
> There are disputes between France and UK regarding fishing rights.
> Should China view this as a threat and send some war ships?
> Perhaps China should fight for the independence of Scotland or Northern Island and defend their fishing rights. Why can´t regional conflicts stay regional? Because of the Western mindset of world domination.



It's a lot more than fishing rights,  the Chinese have  built military bases on islands that belong to the Philippines and they think that they own virtually all of the South China sea.

Well the Chinese have their hands full at the moment with 'dispute's' with 17 other countries to go and help the Scots ad Irish.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/china/955728/all-countries-china-territory-disputes


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 13, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> It's a lot more than fishing rights,  the Chinese have  built military bases on islands that belong to the Philippines and they think that they own virtually all of the South China sea.


That you believe belong to the Philippines.  Let them sort it out.


JoeBloggs777 said:


> Well the Chinese have their hands full at the moment with 'dispute's' with 17 other countries to go and help the Scots ad Irish.


It would be ridiculous for China to get involved in European territory affairs. But somehow Europeans think they stick their noses into East Asian matters. This is actual white supremacy (not the stuff discussed in the US)


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Wrong, you're explaining the view of the maybe two Russians you've met in your lifetime.  The rest of their supporters you're just assuming exist because the Kremlin says they do.


I´ve got Russian citizenship (among others). I think I know a few more than you.


Xzi said:


> Ukraine is a sovereign nation that's free to host whoever they damn well please.  Which is totally irrelevant anyway, since Putin has admitted the invasion was all about expanding Russian territory.  It'd be like the US trying to make Iraq and Afghanistan the 51st and 52nd states.


No, it would be like the US trying to make Canada part of the US after Canada attempts to host the Chinese military and join a Chinese military alliance.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´ve got Russian citizenship (among others).











UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> No, it would be like the US trying to make Canada part of the US after Canada attempts to host the Chinese military and join a Chinese military alliance.


Canada is already part of a military alliance with the US.  Gee, I wonder why Ukraine wouldn't want to enter into a military alliance with their neighboring country threatening invasion instead of turning elsewhere for protection?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Canada is already part of a military alliance with the US.  Gee, I wonder why Ukraine wouldn't want to enter into a military alliance with their neighboring country threatening invasion instead of turning elsewhere for protection?


And Ukraine was in a military alliance with Russia. It was called the Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Use your imagination: What if the US-Canada relations worsen one day.
 The US would never allow the Chinese military in Canada. You know and I know it. If Canada proceeded with it anyway, we could call it unfair but it would be predictably a foolish decision.

I could upload documents proving my Russian citizenship but I don´t care whether you believe me. Most people are hill billies compared to me.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And Ukraine was in a military alliance with Russia. It was called the Russian Empire and Soviet Union.


And every continent was once a single one called Pangaea.  That doesn't excuse imperialist war crimes and attempted genocide, sorry.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Use your imagination: What if the US-Canada relations worsen one day.
> The US would never allow the Chinese military in Canada. You know and I know it. If Canada proceeded with it anyway, we could call it unfair but it would be predictably a foolish decision.


This is still whataboutism FYI, just focused on future hypothetical events now.  Invading Canada under such circumstances that they felt threatened by the US and were seeking outside protection would be wrong.  Doubly wrong would be attempting to occupy Canada for any period of time.  Happy?  Either all imperialism is evil, or none of it is.  I'm arguing that all of it is, so which side does that put you on?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 13, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Either all imperialism is evil, or none of it is.  I'm arguing that all of it is, so which side does that put you on?


US troops in Ukraine is imperialism as well as the Russian invasion.
The invasion was a reaction to the former.

"Doubly wrong would be attempting to occupy Canada for any period of time."
Yeah, like occupying the Syrian oil fields. But the European countries do not sanction the US over it - how could they sanction the empire (the empire sanctions them).


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 13, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> US troops in Ukraine is imperialism as well as the Russian invasion.
> The invasion was a reaction to the former.
> 
> "Doubly wrong would be attempting to occupy Canada for any period of time."
> Yeah, like occupying the Syrian oil fields. But the European countries do not sanction the US over it - how could they sanction the empire (the empire sanctions them).


Many nations has the right to point their fingers to USA and shout against their violent imperialism.

Russian is not one of that nations. Russia is imperialist since it's foundation, and right now in Ukraine is doing the same thing big nations did everywhere in the XIX century. Unacceptable.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 14, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> Many nations has the right to point their fingers to USA and shout against their violent imperialism.
> 
> Russian is not one of that nations. Russia is imperialist since it's foundation, and right now in Ukraine is doing the same thing big nations did everywhere in the XIX century. Unacceptable.


lol do you think that usa is not imperialist since it's foundation, they killed native american but they called themselves as a justice, you must be joking


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 14, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> lol do you think that usa is not imperialist since it's foundation, they killed native american but they called themselves as a justice, you must be joking


USA is extremely imperialist, but Russia can't complain, because it is too. That's what I meant.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 14, 2022)

if Nato is disbanded alongside USSR then this whole event would not be happen, the fact is USA keep Nato to watch over entire Europe, Mother Russia feel threatened if NATO forces come close to their border


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 15, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> if Nato is disbanded alongside USSR then this whole event would not be happen, the fact is USA keep Nato to watch over entire Europe, Mother Russia feel threatened if NATO forces come close to their border



first Putin said the unprovoked invasion  was to fight Nazi's , then it was Nato's fault because a sovereign country wanted to join and finally Putin admitted it was a land grab, he sees himself as Putin the great


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61767191


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 15, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> first Putin said the unprovoked invasion  was to fight Nazi's , then it was Nato's fault because a sovereign country wanted to join and finally Putin admitted it was a land grab, he sees himself as Putin the great


A robber can commit his crime due to a lack of money, jealusy, lack of empathy or any other reason at the same time. The same is true for good deeds. The view that Crimea and Donbass are Russian territory has been shared since 2014 at least.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 16, 2022)

The Mexican president has said that the war could have been avoided. He called the Western strategy immoral: “I’ll supply the weapons, and you supply the dead.”

He is not wrong.
Let´s not forget that countries like Germany accept refugees from Eritrea who want to dodge the brutal military service over there. Yet, they have no problem with Ukraine sending potentially millions of men to their deaths. Suddenly, Western elites do know what men and women are.
The West is treating Ukrainians worse than the Kurds. At least they got air support.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The Mexican president has said that the war could have been avoided. He called the Western strategy immoral: “I’ll supply the weapons, and you supply the dead.”



you missed this bit out 



> In March, a half-dozen legislators from López Obrador’s Morena party helped create a congressional “Mexico-Russia Friendship Committee.”



Putin has one  friend


----------



## spoggi (Jun 16, 2022)

Now Ukraine is soon to be invited in EU membership
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...raine-membership-bid-in-trip-to-war-torn-kyiv


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 16, 2022)

This shows sanctions are starting to work, read the whole  thread on Twitter. 

"


----------



## Xzi (Jun 16, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> US troops in Ukraine is imperialism as well as the Russian invasion.


Even in yet another hypothetical scenario you're incorrect, Ukraine willingly hosting US troops would not be imperialism.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The invasion was a reaction to the former.


No, the invasion happened because Putin is an evil, greedy cunt.  He admits it, why can't you?  Oh right, because in your mind it doesn't count when it's an Eastern country doing it.  Never mind the fact that Putin is the equivelant of what would happen if Dick Cheney was president for life.  



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Yeah, like occupying the Syrian oil fields. But the European countries do not sanction the US over it - how could they sanction the empire (the empire sanctions them).


Europe does have the power to take meaningful action against the US if they so choose, and in many cases I'd support it.  Again: all imperialism bad, this isn't complicated.  You'd be rightly infuriated if the US invaded and tried to occupy Mexico, so get just as angry about Russia invading its neighbor.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 17, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Even in yet another hypothetical scenario you're incorrect, Ukraine willingly hosting US troops would not be imperialism.


If you cannot call the strongest military country with hundreds of bases around the world an empire, then what is? You know that "imperialism" is related to the word empire, right? Empire is not a negative word. Imperialism is what empires do. They send troops. The Swiss historian Ganser referred to a simple test: Are Afghan soldiers roaming around in Washington or are/were American soldiers in Kabul? With regards to Ukraine you might say that Ukraine would invite US troops. Sure, by a government that came to power after a coup which caused separatism. If China had hundreds of bases around the world you´d call it imperialism regardless of what international governments think. Years ago the Iraqi government democratically voted for the US to leave after it had - as empires do - assassinated an Iranian leader. Did the US care? No. An Iraqi goverment which came to power after an US invasion btw.


Xzi said:


> No, the invasion happened because Putin is an evil, greedy cunt.  He admits it, why can't you?  Oh right, because in your mind it doesn't count when it's an Eastern country doing it.  Never mind the fact that Putin is the equivelant of what would happen if Dick Cheney was president for life.


Even dictators (which Putin is not, but you´d call him that) cannot ignore the will of the people (at least not for long; e.g. Hitler could not have done what he did whithout the will of the people). There would have been no support for an invasion if there had been no provocation (i.e. NATO membership) by Ukraine. NATO is not just a de-facto offensive alliance, it is specifically anti-Russian. Imagine Canada joining an anti-US alliance, Austria an anti-German alliance or small islands around Australia joining... oh wait we almost got a light version of that and what was the reaction? *Solomon island cough cough*



Xzi said:


> Europe does have the power to take meaningful action against the US if they so choose, and in many cases I'd support it.  Again: all imperialism bad, this isn't complicated.  You'd be rightly infuriated if the US invaded and tried to occupy Mexico, so get just as angry about Russia invading its neighbor.


None of my business. Don´t assume things about me.
I am consistent, you are not.
If Mexico wanted to join a Russian (i.e. anti-US) military alliance, I´d oppose that. Because I don´t want to die in a nuclear war. That´s just how selfish I am.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 17, 2022)

yeah i rather want to see canadian stole us president wife than nuclear war


----------



## Xzi (Jun 17, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you cannot call the strongest military country with hundreds of bases around the world an empire, then what is? You know that "imperialism" is related to the word empire, right? Empire is not a negative word. Imperialism is what empires do. They send troops. The Swiss historian Ganser referred to a simple test: Are Afghan soldiers roaming around in Washington or are/were American soldiers in Kabul? With regards to Ukraine you might say that Ukraine would invite US troops. Sure, by a government that came to power after a coup which caused separatism. If China had hundreds of bases around the world you´d call it imperialism regardless of what international governments think. Years ago the Iraqi government democratically voted for the US to leave after it had - as empires do - assassinated an Iranian leader. Did the US care? No. An Iraqi goverment which came to power after an US invasion btw.


That's a whole lot of typing simply to end up admitting you're okay with imperialism.  "Just what empires do" is your poorest attempt to excuse it away so far.  It's a useless remnant of the past, just like Putin and any other boomer desperately clinging to power.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Even dictators (which Putin is not, but you´d call him that) cannot ignore the will of the people


Of course they can, Putin has total control over the media and thus controls many Russians' opinions about any given issue.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> NATO is not just a de-facto offensive alliance, it is specifically anti-Russian.


Back to going in circles again.  NATO was ten excuses ago, and I've already posted a link which quotes Putin on the true reason for the invasion.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> None of my business. Don´t assume things about me.
> I am consistent, you are not.


The only thing you're consistent about is your hypocrisy.  You're arguing that modern Eastern imperialism is perfectly acceptable because Western nations have also engaged in it.  Sorry to break it to you, but two wrongs don't make a right.  If you're going to voice support for an invasion which has included any number of attacks on schools, hospitals, and civilians just trying to live their lives, you may as well fess up to being an amoral sociopath too.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jun 17, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> This shows sanctions are starting to work, read the whole  thread on Twitter.
> 
> "




I think this is a report of some connections between Russia and other european countries that go beyond cereals and oil. The severance of these connections in response to the war is straining all parties, it will undoubtedly reshape our economies and we're currently through a complicated period of adaptation. There are european lobbies that pressure Ukraine to surrender parts of their territory to Russia, as well as concede to other russian demands, in order to stop the war and cut losses. The same is happening in Russia, even though there's an authoritarian government that doesn't allow dissent. 

A good thing coming from this is the acceleration of the transition to clean energy and transport in Europe.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That's a whole lot of typing simply to end up admitting you're okay with imperialism.  "Just what empires do" is your poorest attempt to excuse it away so far.  It's a useless remnant of the past, just like Putin and any other boomer desperately clinging to power.


I have never endorsed the Russian invasion/war. I have refuted your claim about US imperialism.


Xzi said:


> Of course they can, Putin has total control over the media and thus controls many Russians' opinions about any given issue.


Russians are better informed than Americans, though I know far fewer Americans personally. I know most of them through discussions like these. Even in the Soviet Union (when there was no Telegram App) people knew about government propaganda. Here were are again at your bigoted view that Russians need you as their savior. Does it help your ego?


Xzi said:


> Back to going in circles again.  NATO was ten excuses ago, and I've already posted a link which quotes Putin on the true reason for the invasion.


I already said there can be many reasons simultaneously. He compared himself to Peter the Great in reference to restoring lost territory. That is imperialism, but I´d prefer this sort of imperialism compared to Iraq war imperialism.


Xzi said:


> The only thing you're consistent about is your hypocrisy.  You're arguing that modern Eastern imperialism is perfectly acceptable because Western nations have also engaged in it.  Sorry to break it to you, but two wrongs don't make a right.  If you're going to voice support for an invasion which has included any number of attacks on schools, hospitals, and civilians just trying to live their lives, you may as well fess up to being an amoral sociopath too.


I have not called it "perfectly acceptable". I have not even called it acceptable. Don´t put words in my mouth. It does not concern me. I am not willing to suffer for it.
Why the hell should Papua New Ginea care about the details of the Russian-Ukrainian border? Why should Argentina care whether Japan gets its islands back?
It is American supremacism which causes brain cells in your body to malfunction and utter the nonsense you are stating. If there is a dispute between the US and Canada about some snowy hills, I don´t care. It only concerns me if there is a potential for nuclear escalation. I have been consistent about this. You have dodged questions about consistency.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I have never endorsed the Russian invasion/war. I have refuted your claim about US imperialism.


The only claim I've made about US imperialism is that it's bad.  Meanwhile, your claim is that Ukraine temporarily and willing hosting US troops in a *hypothetical* scenario that never occurred, would be akin to imperialism.  Which is just plain ridiculous as long as words continue to have set meanings.  You're arguing from Putin's point of view that such a meeting would _feel_ like imperialism to him, but that's ultimately irrelevant to objective reality.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russians are better informed than Americans, though I know far fewer Americans personally.


This isn't a competition.  There are plenty of ignorant Americans, I'll grant you that.  It's just that we'd be even more ignorant on average if a small group of people within government controlled all our media.  It's bad enough that a handful of individuals in the private sector already do.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Here were are again at your bigoted view that Russians need you as their savior. Does it help your ego?


I can't save anybody from their own ignorance or desire to believe in propaganda, nor did I imply I wanted to.  They have to find their own way out from that hole.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> That is imperialism, but I´d prefer this sort of imperialism compared to Iraq war imperialism.


There is no "good" form of imperialism, and if the US had tried to permanently occupy Iraq as Russia is trying to do with Ukraine, that would've been far more disastrous than our eventual exit.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It does not concern me.


Were that true you wouldn't have bothered posting in this thread at all.  Instead I can only surmise that you're towing the CCP party line here because you know what Putin is doing is devastating for both Ukraine and Russia, but good in the long run for China.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 19, 2022)

why you're afraid to China, China is peaceful country not like US, they help the worlds gain affordable goods/tools


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 19, 2022)

This is A Sign
LOL


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 19, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> why you're afraid to China, China is peaceful country not like US, they help the worlds gain affordable goods/tools


I just know my region, but judging for my region (that is Latin America), USA have done absurd damages to our integration, democracies, societies and economy. While Chinese bad interventions are usually just trade competition, nothing to damaging.

That said, USA is awesome to its citizens in a consistent basis (it is bellow Europe now, but still in a high level), China can't be proud of that, so we can't just say China is better, because it is not that simple.

In the end the future world will be better with no ruling nation, and not with another ruling nation.

PS.: A guy falling of a bike is sign of nothing.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 19, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> why you're afraid to China, China is peaceful country not like US, they help the worlds gain affordable goods/tools



China has built military bases on Islands that belong to the Philippines



> All the countries in which China claims territory​Beijing is engaged in disputes with 17 nations over land and sea borders​



https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/china/955728/all-countries-china-territory-disputes


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jun 19, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> This is A Sign
> LOL




A sign of what?


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 19, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> A sign of what?


It's a sign that Biden has scratched his knees, nothing else.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> why you're afraid to China, China is peaceful country not like US, they help the worlds gain affordable goods/tools


China is the biggest threat to the rest of the world, both militarily and economically, and the fact that we’re even mildly distracted by limp Russia is a mental hiccup from the days of the Cold War.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jun 19, 2022)

China doesn't need to be a threat, we should have space for several world powers.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> China is the biggest threat to the rest of the world, both militarily and economically, and the fact that we’re even mildly distracted by limp Russia is a mental hiccup from the days of the Cold War.


I agree that China is a massive threat, but only because they've usurped the US as kings of capitalism, and their surveillance police state is already far more dystopian than our own.  They're slowly buying out every other country from within in an attempt to gain even more global influence than their endless population of consumers and wage slaves already affords them.

In the short term, they're far more likely to play it cool in the and at least postpone attacking Taiwan for some time after seeing what happened with Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  In the long term they're probably looking to control the corporations that control our politicians/government.  Guess we can thank Nixon and Citizen's United for that.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I agree that China is a massive threat, but only because they've usurped the US as kings of capitalism, and their surveillance police state is already far more dystopian than our own.  They're slowly buying out every other country from within in an attempt to gain even more global influence than their endless population of consumers and wage slaves already affords them.
> 
> In the short term, they're far more likely to play it cool in the and at least postpone attacking Taiwan for some time after seeing what happened with Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  In the long term they're probably looking to control the corporations that control our politicians/government.  Guess we can thank Nixon and Citizen's United for that.


I believe that in a weird way and for weird reasons, the biggest threat for both US and China is their own internal stability. Pressure in opposite directions, one for more democracy and other for less, but both with potential world changing effects.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I agree that China is a massive threat, but only because they've usurped the US as kings of capitalism, and their surveillance police state is already far more dystopian than our own.  They're slowly buying out every other country from within in an attempt to gain even more global influence than their endless population of consumers and wage slaves already affords them.
> 
> In the short term, they're far more likely to play it cool in the and at least postpone attacking Taiwan for some time after seeing what happened with Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  In the long term they're probably looking to control the corporations that control our politicians/government.  Guess we can thank Nixon and Citizen's United for that.


China has a territorial dispute on just about every side of its borders, it’s fully capable of blockading the South China Sea and paralysingly trade on a global scale, it controls the gross majority of production of luxury goods of all sorts and could grind the world economy to a halt on a whim *and* it’s the world’s top grain producer to boot, along with other food items. Moreover, their military technology is both modern and developing, not just on the ground, in the skies or on sea, but also in terms of cyber warfare. They also happen to be a modern country with *actual* concentration camps. Modern China is about as close as you can get to an equivalent of pre-war Nazi Germany, with the glorious leader cult et all. They’re playing along with the rest of the world because it’s convenient - there’s still a lot of growth that can be achieved if they continue on this path. The one thing that’s holding back China’s aspirations is a strong United States on the other side of the pond. The threat level of Russia compared to China is like comparing a Chihuaha to a Pitbull - the Pitbull might be well-behaved at any given time, but they have the nasty propensity to snap, and once they snap, they’ve snapped. This is a genie you can’t really shove back into a bottle once it’s out. Decades of outsourcing just about everything to China is not too dissimilar from a convict weaving the rope they’ll eventually be hanged with. Sorry to sound grim, I simply recognise a threat when I see one.


Dark_Phoras said:


> China doesn't need to be a threat, we should have space for several world powers.


There’s no room for superpowers with concentration camps, among other gross violations of human rights.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jun 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> There’s no room for superpowers with concentration camps, among other gross violations of human rights.



There should also be no room for superpowers that strip away women rights, among other things.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> There should also be no room for superpowers that strip away women rights, among other things.


Cute. How are women’s rights doing in China? Oh wait, China has a forced sterilisation policy in an effort to “control the population” (i.e. genocide a race), my bad. Circus-level take, pick your battles better.

https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-n...china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jun 19, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Cute. How are women’s rights doing in China? Oh wait, China has a forced sterilisation policy in an effort to “control the population” (i.e. genocide a race), my bad. Circus-level take, pick your battles better.



I was developing my answer further, but now I understand you're immature and I don't want to discuss with you.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> I was developing my answer further, but now I understand you're immature and I don't want to discuss with you.


Yeah, between the two of us I’m the immature one. +15 Social Credits to you, comrade.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 20, 2022)

if you hate china so much why you buy goods/tool manufactured by china

your processor amd/intel are made from china
your graphics card are made from china
your gaming console are made from china
your iphone / smartphone are made from china
even your underwear and toilet papers are made from china

you'll be naked if you didn't use Chinese goods


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jun 20, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> if you hate china so much why you buy goods/tool manufactured by china
> 
> your processor amd/intel are made from china
> your graphics card are made from china
> ...


Well, with the current heat wave to be naked doesn't sound bad at all.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> if you hate china so much why you buy goods/tool manufactured by china
> 
> your processor amd/intel are made from china
> your graphics card are made from china
> ...


The dystopian communist dictatorship defense brigade is in, everybody listen about how participating in global trade somehow outweighs or otherwise diminishes genocide in China.

If you want a more nuanced argument, let’s not forget that the Chinese government stacks the game against any foreign competitors via aggressive subsidies and currency manipulation, ensuring its own market dominance. The western world was taking a 3-4 decade long nap diminishing its own domestic production capabilities under the mistaken impression that by dealing with the “bad guys” like Russia and China they’ll somehow turn them into modern democracies. Now half of the world is reliant on Russian energy and Chinese manufacturing, and that’s somehow my fault and not the government’s. It’s not even the fault of the Chinese or the Russians either - they don’t have a say. They’re simply governed by horrific governments that can both get bent.

You two have put yourself in the position of defending a genocidal, totalitarian dictatorship - you took the L before the exchange even started. Comparing the minor gripes people have in the western world with constant violations of basic human rights in China is a standard misinformation strategy - it’s nothing more than whataboutism. Chinese diplomats can trick their western counterparts with that spiel, but it doesn’t work against me. You’re both bringing up inconsequential nonsense because you have no justification for government-sponsored genocide, which is what this is. Say it how it is - the Chinese government was afraid of the rapid population growth of its minority populations and chose to forcibly deploy “contraceptive measures” against the ones they found “undesirable”. You can admit it and save face, or you can try (and fail) to deflect, underlining the fact that you’re both apologists.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Say it how it is - the Chinese government was afraid of the rapid population growth and chose to forcibly deploy “contraceptive measures” against the minorities they found “undesirable”. You can admit it and save face, or you can try (and fail) to deflect, underlining the fact that you’re both apologists.


I do not support (nor defend) the one-child policy (because I am not Chinese nor a European colonialist), however, it was done to prevent overpopulation.
Overpopulation leads to starvation or mass exodus or war.
The one-child policy has not been in place for minorities like the Uyghurs. What kind of genocide is it if you supress the numbers of the minority but not that of the Uyghurs and other minorities. 
You can admit that you were wrong and save face...


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I do not support (nor defend) the one-child policy (because I am not Chinese nor a European colonialist), however, it was done to prevent overpopulation.
> Overpopulation leads to starvation or mass exodus or war.
> The one-child policy has not been in place for minorities like the Uyghurs. What kind of genocide is it if you supress the numbers of the minority but not that of the Uyghurs and other minorities.
> You can admit that you were wrong and save face...


The one-child policy is no longer in place, it ended in 2015. More specifically, it was gradually phased out by raising the limit and as of 2021 no child limit or any associated penalties exist. My face is safe and sound. Y’all gonna lose Social Credit by the wheelbarrow if you keep engaging, this isn’t an argument you can win. You’re just trying to shift the conversation from the subject of genocide to the subject of the (now irrelevant) one-child policy which is completely unrelated. Hit and a miss.

EDIT: Upon further investigation some further clarification is needed. The three-child *policy* is still part of law, but there are no penalties for going over the limit, so for all intents and purposes it exists in name only. As I stated earlier, there is *no three child limit* that would imply legal ramifications if exceeded, see posts below for details, courtesy of the Chinese government itself.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The one-child policy is no longer in place, it ended in 2015. More specifically, it was gradually phased out by raising the limit and as of 2021 no child limit or any associated penalties exist. My face is safe and sound. Y’all gonna lose Social Credit by the wheelbarrow if you keep engaging, this isn’t an argument you can win. You’re just trying to shift the conversation from the subject of genocide to the subject of the (now irrelevant) one-child policy which is completely unrelated. Hit and a miss.


Do you know what genocide means? The mass killings of a certain people, i.e. their genes or preventing their genes from procreating.
If the Chinese government tried to mass kill Uyghurs, provide evidence.
If the Chinese government tried to limit the numbers of Uyghurs, why was the one-child policy not in place for them?

The one-child policy is not a different topic. It disproves your claim.
The two-child policy has been in place since 2015. It also did not affect Uyghurs.
The three-child policy is currently in place and also does not affect Uyghurs.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 20, 2022)

Overpopulation may trigger the end of the world that is why one child/2 is a must be adopted to the rest of country

oh you're right in order to control the population us gov and most of european country had been legalled same sex marriage which is absurd and according to the holy bible it is a sinful act


----------



## leon315 (Jun 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The one-child policy is no longer in place, it ended in 2015. More specifically, it was gradually phased out by raising the limit and as of 2021 no child limit or any associated penalties exist. My face is safe and sound. Y’all gonna lose Social Credit by the wheelbarrow if you keep engaging, this isn’t an argument you can win. You’re just trying to shift the conversation from the subject of genocide to the subject of the (now irrelevant) one-child policy which is completely unrelated. Hit and a miss.


Once i read somewhere:
"*every day we stray further from god's light."*
it's hardly to judge the outcome of this conflics since it still haven't reached the end yet, but i can be sure that you guys have *already strayed *far from what we started
*from *The situation in Ukraine... to china's 1-2-3 children policy.​just to add a little bit of my personal opinions,


Foxi4 said:


> “contraceptive measures” against the ones they found “undesirable”.


those news are one filtered by wester mass media, preposely created just feed you though their own political anti-China agenda, in order to mindwash citizens then gain support and votes. It's been years the western world accuses China about "uighur cleanse" but untill now no significant evidence was shown, if you have any plz I'm dying to read it.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 20, 2022)

leon315 said:


> Once i read somewhere:
> "*every day we stray further from god's light."*
> it's hardly to judge the outcome of this conflics since it still haven't reached the end yet, but i can be sure that you guys have *already strayed *far from what we started
> *from *The situation in Ukraine... to china's 1-2-3 children policy.​just to add a little bit of my personal opinions,
> ...


it just hoax made by US imperialist to cover it's bioweapon research facility 

this covid is bio war, it always mutated and forced us to used a vaccine made by us Govt and a booster that make us like a computer that always updated it's anti virus, no?

the answer to control the population


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Do you know what genocide means? The mass killings of a certain people, i.e. their genes or preventing their genes from procreating.
> If the Chinese government tried to mass kill Uyghurs, provide evidence.
> If the Chinese government tried to limit the numbers of Uyghurs, why was the one-child policy not in place for them?
> 
> ...


What’s there to prove? There’s approx. 1 million detainees in China’s “internment camps”, they’re forcibly sterilised and used for unpaid labour. I didn’t say that mass killings of Uyghurs are taking place - you said that to deflect. I said that a genocide is taking place, and it is - they’re ethnically cleansing the country by removing people’s ability to have children, with force, and often permanently. You’re wrong about the one-child policy, period - it is no longer in effect. It “disproves” nothing. The three-child limit you’re referring to was lifted as of July 2021. You’re uninformed and stacking those L’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-child_policy

The Uyghur population is controlled via a completely different set of “policies”, further underlining the fact that they’re treated like sub-humans.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 20, 2022)

if you said is true why US and Europe Country didn't take action on china like they do in ukraine

it just hoax made by biden to raise his electability


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> if you said is true why US and Europe Country didn't take action on china like they do in ukraine
> 
> it just hoax made by biden to raise his electability


China has been repeatedly condemned for their genocide and was subject to a number of economic sanctions.


leon315 said:


> those news are one filtered by wester mass media, preposely created just feed you though their own political anti-China agenda, in order to mindwash citizens then gain support and votes. It's been years the western world accuses China about "uighur cleanse" but untill now no significant evidence was shown, if you have any plz I'm dying to read it.


There’s nothing to “not believe” here, there’s witness testimony, satellite footage and even the Chinese government itself admitting to the draconian means of controlling the Muslim population, stopping short of calling the camps what they actually are. It’s the world’s worst-kept secret, ignorance of facts is not a viable excuse.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> What’s there to prove? There’s approx. 1 million detainees in China’s “internment camps”, they’re forcibly sterilised and used for unpaid labour.





Foxi4 said:


> I didn’t say that mass killings of Uyghurs are taking place - you said that to deflect. I said that a genocide is taking place, and it is - they’re ethnically cleansing the country by removing people’s ability to have children, with force, and often permanently.


Due to the one/two/three-child policy Han Chinese were also sterlized. You have to prove the Uyghurs are treated worse to come even close to genocide. In fact, they are treated better. Population limit is just one aspect. They can also score lower in university entrance exams. What a genocide...



Foxi4 said:


> You’re wrong about the one-child policy, period - it is no longer in effect. It “disproves” nothing. The three-child limit you’re referring to was lifted as of July 2021. You’re uninformed and stacking those L’s.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-child_policy
> ...


No, you are wrong about the three-child policy. This is the problem with Westerners treating wikipedia as their god. The information is based on one American main stream article. The author misunderstood the rules. The three-child policy is still in place. If you cannot find out a simple fact like this one, how can you be so sure about your claims of genocide?
Why have you beaten your mother today? Prove your innocence!
I´ve had people insist that the CPC is called CCP due to some wikipedia article. The freakin CPC probably knows better what it calls itself than some wikipedia article.


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 20, 2022)

and why the situation in Ukraine thread turn to be Chinese - US debate


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Due to the one/two/three-child policy Han Chinese were also sterlized. You have to prove the Uyghurs are treated worse to come even close to genocide. In fact, they are treated better. Population limit is just one aspect. They can also score lower in university entrance exams. What a genocide...


It’s entirely possible that China has once again reversed its stance on the cap after the last article. What I can prove (and already have, see AP article, it’s not debatable) is that China is forcibly sterilising Muslims and putting them in dedicated internment camps where they’re used (and abused) for forced labour - that alone is egregious and not acceptable. Even assuming that both the Chinese and the minorities were bound by the same childbirth policy, I don’t see that as an extenuating factor - all that’d prove is that the government is a totalitarian nightmare for a larger group of people.

EDIT: I see the confusion. China has implemented a three-child policy as a general rule for all provinces, but scrapped the penalties for not adhering to it. The government advises couples to have up to three children, but will not penalise them for having more. Here’s the source:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-07/21/c_1310073319.htm

http://www.gov.cn/zhengce/2021-07/20/content_5626190.htm

I quote: “The main purpose for implementing the three-child policy and supporting measures is to help achieve an appropriate fertility rate and promote long-term and balanced population development. It represents a fundamental change from previous goals of birth policies, such as curbing the excessively rapid population growth (…) Universal restrictive measures and fines in the country are no longer necessary.” - Yang Wenzhuang, National Health Comission

In other words, you will not be penalised for having more children than advised… unless you’re Muslim, of course - then you get some “non-consensual healthcare” thrust upon you by the state, in clear violation of bodily autonomy. If you want to argue about this further, argue with the Chinese government, since it’s their own website and their own state-controlled news agency.


----------



## zeveroth (Jun 20, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> and why the situation in Ukraine thread turn to be Chinese - US debate


Because ppl need a reason to argue, a tbh. 
Edit. I had a much longer response but the page refreshes and I lost it so there’s that. Lol


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 20, 2022)

Let´s return the thread to Ukraine (unlike Crimea):

EU foreign policy leader Josep Borrell calls the Russian export blockade a "real war crime".
Russia says it is not blocking it. Ukraine has to remove the mines in order for trade to resume. But Ukraine says it cannot trust Russia. It would use the clearing of the mines for military advances by sea.

Seems like a difficult situation to resolve.
This appears to be yet another issue the EU failed to predict. The US won´t mind because the African and Middle Eastern migrants will primarily come to the EU, I suppose.


----------



## spoggi (Jun 20, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Let´s return the thread to Ukraine (unlike Crimea):
> 
> EU foreign policy leader Josep Borrell calls the Russian export blockade a "real war crime".
> Russia says it is not blocking it. Ukraine has to remove the mines in order for trade to resume. But Ukraine says it cannot trust Russia. It would use the clearing of the mines for military advances by sea.
> ...


Like the fact, that you want the thread to be more about the war in Ukraine
But you drag USA and the Middle east into the discussion right away.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Like the fact, that you want the thread to be more about the war in Ukraine
> But you drag USA and the Middle east into the discussion right away.


He knows he took a giant L on genocide in China, so he’s switching subjects right away. Not that I mind, it was a very brief diversion anyway - the thread *is* about Ukraine. I was simply addressing the China apologists in the thread, and I think that part of the discussion has reached its natural (and predictable) conclusion.


----------



## spoggi (Jun 20, 2022)

Guess Putin wasn't dead after all 
But hope he is before he goes for Odessa


----------



## spoggi (Jun 20, 2022)

Probably the only thing that can stop the war
is Putin being dead


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 20, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> He knows he took a giant L on genocide in China, so he’s switching subjects right away. Not that I mind, it was a very brief diversion anyway - the thread *is* about Ukraine. I was simply addressing the China apologists in the thread, and I think that part of the discussion has reached its natural (and predictable) conclusion.


Namely that you had to back-paddle. Open a thread and discuss it there.

Obviously the war in Ukraine is also about the USA. To say otherwise is like claiming that Russia had nothing to do with 2014 separatism in Ukraine.


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## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 20, 2022)

i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 21, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia


Ukraine will never be part of Russia again,  not one ex USSR state wants to join Russia, in fact most have supplied weapons to the Ukraine they love Russia so much.


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## Xzi (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Namely that you had to back-paddle. Open a thread and discuss it there.
> 
> Obviously the war in Ukraine is also about the USA. To say otherwise is like claiming that Russia had nothing to do with 2014 separatism in Ukraine.


Neither the US nor China started this war, that's 100% on Putin.  Again though, China has an interest in seeing both Russia and Ukraine fall so they can swoop in and buy up everything in a fire sale.  Instead of using their power and influence to try to bring a quick resolution to this conflict, they're fence-sitting and subtly playing both sides.  That's not quite as evil as directly aiding the imperialist invasion, but it is still evil.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Namely that you had to back-paddle. Open a thread and discuss it there.


Backpedal what? I said that the three-child limit no longer applies and it doesn’t. There’s a difference between government advice and crime. Before the law was changed having more children than permitted was a crime - it affected your credit score and a wide variety of other services as stating the amount of children you have was a requirement on government forms. It entailed not only financial, but also criminal liability, including possible forced contraception or sterilisation. Now it doesn’t, unless you’re part of an undesirable minority, in which case having more children than permitted lands you in an internment camp. This isn’t me saying this, it’s the Chinese government itself, so you go on ahead and argue with them.


JoeBloggs777 said:


> Ukraine will never be part of Russia again,  not one ex USSR state wants to join Russia, in fact most have supplied weapons to the Ukraine they love Russia so much.


One of the worst neighbours you could have. When Putin was elected, he coasted on leftover delusions of grandeur - people remembered the “glorious motherland” propaganda, but they didn’t remember that they could barely make ends meet. He’s been stoking that pseudo-patriotic “Mother Russia” flame ever since, and while it’s a successful strategy in some areas, unfortunately it also means that Putin cannot afford to take an L - it undercuts his platform. He’ll stay in Ukraine for as long as humanly possible, to the detriment of Russians if needs be. The west successfully obliterated Russia once, it will do it again, and it’s not going to do it with weapons. That’s a fool’s errand - many have tried, none have succeeded due to home turf advantage leaning heavily towards Russia. If the west wants to score a W, it needs to bankrupt it, just like it did in the late 80’s.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 21, 2022)

John Mearsheimer recently made an interesting analogy:
Would you play Russian roulette if only one out of 100 chambers had a bullet it in?
You´d all say no (unless perhaps there was an insanely high reward if you don´t shoot yourself)

But the Western elites downplay the possiblity of a nuclear escalation (which btw is more likely the further the West succeeds in damaging Russia), often stating the chance is low. So is shooting yourself in Mearsheimers example.


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## Viri (Jun 21, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia


Well, that's a great way to tank your economy. Conquering a country is the easy part, holding and pacifying a country is the difficult part. Ukraine has a population of 44mil people. A majority of that population will see Russia as conquerors. Russia would have to endure protests, many of which will be violent and terrorist attacks on a weekly basis.

And yea, becoming a part of Russia again? I believed that before the "tactically retreated" from outside of Kiev.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> John Mearsheimer recently made an interesting analogy:
> Would you play Russian roulette if only one out of 100 chambers had a bullet it in?
> You´d all say no (unless perhaps there was an insanely high reward if you don´t shoot yourself)
> 
> But the Western elites downplay the possiblity of a nuclear escalation (which btw is more likely the further the West succeeds in damaging Russia), often stating the chance is low. So is shooting yourself in Mearsheimers example.


The possibility of nuclear retaliation is both minuscule and fairly easily countered. NATO has implemented Ballistic Missile Defense systems utilising satellite tracking and naval BMD interceptors. A warhead would be highly unlikely to reach its intended destination anyway, the only consequence of an attack would be radioactive debris which is admittedly troublesome to deal with, but in no way comparable to the tonnes of radioactive ash resulting from an actual detonation. Russia would have to deploy more missiles than the system can handle, and we don’t know if their shoddy Soviet-era equipment even still works. Paper tiger, my level of concern is close to nil.




KuntilanakMerah said:


> i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia


Ukraine isn’t Russia - it has always been a contested territory. If Russia thinks it has a claim on Ukraine, so does Turkey (by the virtue of being a former part of the Ottoman Empire), Poland (former part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth), Austria (former part of Austrian Empire) and probably even more than that. Ultimately an independent Ukrainian state emerged in 1917 and, if not for being forcibly reconstituted into the U.S.S.R. by the Bolsheviks, it would’ve remained independent just fine. Russia doesn’t get to clutch pearls after over 30 years of Ukraine functioning as a sovereign country - it’s nothing more than sour grapes.


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## Xzi (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> But the Western elites downplay the possiblity of a nuclear escalation (which btw is more likely the further the West succeeds in damaging Russia), often stating the chance is low. So is shooting yourself in Mearsheimers example.


So your suggestion is...what?  That we give the unstable dictator with nukes everything he wants?  As if that'll somehow make him disappear or become any less unstable.  Besides, everybody's got nukes now.  They're not the ace in the hole they once were, and even considering mutually assured destruction as a last desperate tactic means you've already lost.  At that point he might as well just commit Sudoku instead.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> So your suggestion is...what?  That we give the unstable dictator with nukes everything he wants?  As if that'll somehow make him disappear or become any less unstable.  Besides, everybody's got nukes now.  They're not the ace in the hole they once were, and even considering mutually assured destruction as a last desperate tactic means you've already lost.  At that point he might as well just commit Sudoku instead.


That was kind of the point of MAD - if everyone has nukes, nobody can use them as the threat of retaliation is too great.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> So your suggestion is...what?  That we give the unstable dictator with nukes everything he wants?


Russia did not change the status quo. It was the US which pushed Germany and France in 2008 to accept the announcement of a coming NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine.
The question becomes: How important is it to you to have them in NATO?
- - -


Foxi4 said:


> The possibility of nuclear retaliation is both minuscule and fairly easily countered. NATO has implemented Ballistic Missile Defense systems utilising satellite tracking and naval BMD interceptors. A warhead would be highly unlikely to reach its intended destination anyway, the only consequence of an attack would be radioactive debris which is admittedly troublesome to deal with, but in no way comparable to the tonnes of radioactive ash resulting from an actual detonation. Russia would have to deploy more missiles than the system can handle, and we don’t know if their shoddy Soviet-era equipment even still works. Paper tiger, my level of concern is close to nil.


Russia has thousands of nuclear weapons. Just one of them hitting would be slightly concerning, don´t you think?


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## Xzi (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia did not change the status quo. It was the US which pushed Germany and France in 2008 to accept the announcement of a coming NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine.
> The question becomes: How important is it to you to have them in NATO?


Do you have Alzheimer's?  I only ask because we've been over the subject of NATO at least three times now.  Ukraine's membership wasn't even on the table when Russia invaded.  Prior to this whole series of events I couldn't have possibly given two shits about Ukraine or anyone else joining NATO, but Russia's actions have been both the strongest possible justification and best possible advertisement for the organization's purpose.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia has thousands of nuclear weapons. Just one of them hitting would be slightly concerning, don´t you think?


Not in particular, no. Russia landing one warhead effectively means there’s no more Russia the following day, just a field of glass. I’m not concerned at all.


Xzi said:


> Do you have Alzheimer's?  I only ask because we've been over the subject of NATO at least three times now.  Ukraine's membership wasn't even on the table when Russia invaded.  Prior to this whole series of events I couldn't have possibly given two shits about Ukraine or anyone else joining NATO, but Russia's actions have been both the strongest possible justification and best possible advertisement for the organization's purpose.


It’s likely that when all is said and done, both the U.S. contracts regarding missile defense bases in former Eastern Bloc countries *and* accelerated membership of countries close to the Russian border will be back on the table, all thanks to Putin’s silly aspirations. He did this to himself.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 21, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ukraine's membership wasn't even on the table when Russia invaded.


The US has pushed Ukraine into NATO since 2008. Not saying that it was done against the wish of the Ukrainians (but nor were Soviet missiles in Cuba). Ukraine is not a member but has been treated as such with the exception of active military support.



Foxi4 said:


> Not in particular, no. Russia landing one warhead effectively means there’s no more Russia the following day, just a field of glass. I’m not concerned at all.


You are a fool. In a nuclear exchange the US will send thousands of rockets and Russia will do the same. Even if the US were to be superior in its capabilities (some in the US military deny it - but that could simply be in order to increase defense spending; I cannot judge how effective Russian hypersonic nuclear warheads might be), it would be very difficult to intercept them all. One of them landing would be much worse than the old ones the US used against Japan.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The US has pushed Ukraine into NATO since 2008. Not saying that it was done against the wish of the Ukrainians (but nor were Soviet missiles in Cuba). Ukraine is not a member but has been treated as such with the exception of active military support.
> 
> You are a fool. In a nuclear exchange the US will send thousands of rockets and Russia will do the same. Even if the US were to be superior in its capabilities (some in the US military deny it - but that could simply be in order to increase defense spending; I cannot judge how effective Russian hypersonic nuclear warheads might be), it would be very difficult to intercept them all. One of them landing would be much worse than the old ones the US used against Japan.


Oh, they’re aiming at the U.S.? The country that’s been building and strengthening their national anti-missile defense systems for the last 40+ years? The one with anti-ballistic missile technology implemented not just in the ground (PATRIOT), but also on sea (AEGIS) and in the skies (THADD)? The guys that can track launches from space (SBIRS-HIGH)? Now I’m less worried - I thought they were aiming at somebody slightly closer. I’m not worried about the paper tiger - if Russia’s missiles are as reliable as their “brand-new” tanks, chances are they’ll have to stop for gas by the time they’re half-way there, and Russia doesn’t have the kind of money to fill up a tank - have you been to a gas station recently? Hmm… maybe if someone pushes them along the way…


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 21, 2022)

As I said, it´s the amount. Luckily you are a GBAtemp moderator, not a military adviser. I have never heard a military adviser speaking as recklessly about nuclear war as you. Even if the US could destroy all the missiles flying at them, 65mio on those tiny British islands would die for sure, as well as everbody in Germany (they would be hit first, perhaps even by US nukes for strategic reasons, see Helmut Schmidt´s cabinet). But who cares, right? Just as nobody cares about Ukrainians dying. It´s more important to stick it to the Russians.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As I said, it´s the amount. Luckily you are a GBAtemp moderator, not a military adviser. I have never heard a military adviser speaking as recklessly about nuclear war as you. Even if the US could destroy all the missiles flying at them, 65mio on those tiny British islands would die for sure, as well as everbody in Germany (they would be hit first, perhaps even by US nukes for strategic reasons, see Helmut Schmidt´s cabinet). But who cares, right? Just as nobody cares about Ukrainians dying. It´s more important to stick it to the Russians.


Nobody is speaking recklessly about nuclear war. It’s very obvious that no country on the planet has the capability to intercept every single missile that flies their way - that’s the point, it works both ways. Mounting a nuclear attack against a NATO state, or even just the U.S. itself, would mean swift retaliation against the offender. It would be the shortest war in history - whoever chooses to do that is signing their own death warrant. With that being said, NATO does have the capacity to address such a threat, and the U.S. is uniquely well-equipped to do so even on its own. If Putin dreams of making the Kremlin a mile-deep crater filled with glass, he’s welcome to try his hand. He knows this, which is why I’m not worried. At all. There’s only one Russia, there’s a number of NATO countries with extensive nuclear capability. The shoddy Russian equipment is no match. It’s unclear if their arsenal is even fully operational as they claim - I’m not going to lose sleep over the supposed nuclear capability of a post-Soviet state with a GDP smaller than that of the state of Texas alone. Whatever they’re spending on their gear, it’s not nearly enough to pose a threat. I don’t see a reason to bend the knee before a tyrant just because “they have nukes” - so what if they do? If you bend the knee, you lose by default anyway. Putin gets what he deserves, and if he throws a suicidal hissy fit, odds are his own people will eliminate him before the U.S. even gets a chance to do so.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Nobody is speaking recklessly about nuclear war. It’s very obvious that no country on the planet has the capability to intercept every single missile that flies their way - that’s the point, it works both ways.


It took some convincing but you admit it. Good.
Then I have two questions:
a) Now how much is Ukrainian self-determination worth to you against the backdrop of a possible Russian nuke not being successfully intercepted? 100$ 1000$ 1mio$?
b) How likely is a Russian use of nukes in percentage in your view? 1%, 0,1%, 0,01%?
It is clearly not 0 considering:
-That Putin is a dictator (right?)
-Putin might be ill or insane
-It is the stated goal of the US government to compeletly wreck the Russian economy
-Russia might be losing on the battlefield


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It took some convincing but you admit it. Good.
> Then I have two questions:
> a) Now how much is Ukrainian self-determination worth to you against the backdrop of a possible Russian nuke not being successfully intercepted? 100$ 1000$ 1mio$?
> b) How likely is a Russian use of nukes in percentage in your view? 1%, 0,1%, 0,01%?
> ...


Convincing to say what? That nukes are dangerous? I think you’re asking the wrong question here. Nuclear deterrence only works *if* you shoot back - if Russia shoots 10 warheads at you, you shoot 1000 right back at them. Mutually assured destruction prevents anyone who generally likes being alive from actually using these weapons. The possibility that Russia would use nukes is effectively zero - you’re the one imagining weird scenarios in which Putin wants to go out in one last blaze of “glory”. That’s what I’ve been saying so far and that’s the opinion I stick by. Cowardice only enables dictators to run wild - they need to know that in the event of an attack, everybody responds in kind, that’s the only way to ensure safety. Kowtowing to them doesn’t work, and never will. Putin’s not insane - he’s very calculated, and he miscalculated this one, possibly because he himself was misinformed by his own advisors regarding the battle readiness of his troops. He’s beginning to realise that he’s commanding battalions of clown cars, which is why he ordered the deployment of *vacuum bombs* to take his troops a little further away from the action. If you don’t know what one of those is, look them up. Will he use a nuke? Hell no - that undermines his premise of running a peace keeping operation, destroys key infrastructure and is effectively the suicide button as far as modern warfare is concerned. He’ll threaten it all day, but he won’t do squat.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> The possibility that Russia would use nukes is effectively zero - you’re the one imagining weird scenarios in which Putin wants to go out in one last blaze of “glory”.


That´s not my imagining. I am shining light on the contradiction that - according to Western media - Putin is a dangerous dictator who would not be stopped by his generals (and that he is sick and that he does not care how many Russians die). But on the other hand we should destroy their economy and push them into a corner militarily.
At least you have clarified that you believe the chance of Russia setting off nukes is zero. I hope you are right. Oldtimers like Chomsky or Kissinger are less optimistic and warn of a nuclear war.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> That´s not my imagining. I am shining light on the contradiction that - according to Western media - Putin is a dangerous dictator who would not be stopped by his generals (and that he is sick and that he does not care how many Russians die). But on the other hand we should destroy their economy and push them into a corner militarily.
> At least you have clarified that you believe the chance of Russia setting off nukes is zero. I hope you are right. Oldtimers like Chomsky or Kissinger are less optimistic and warn of a nuclear war.


Chomsky is a genius linguist and an absolutely idiotic political commentator - I am yet to hear him say one thing about politics that wouldn’t make me think he’s a dumbass. He’s a braindead leftoid, always has been. Kissinger should have nothing to say regarding war after Vietnam, Cambodia and the rest of his involvement in Indochina. I don’t take advice from old farts who are an inch removed from being war criminals. I am firmly of the belief that harsh economic sanctions are the pathway to victory here, my only problem with it is that they also hit innocent civilians on both sides. I don’t blame Russia for that though - I blame western government who have gutted their own manufacturing/production capabilities over the course of the last few decades. Will they learn anything at all from this? Absolutely not, but that’s a different problem entirely.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> Chomsky is a genius linguist and an absolutely idiotic political commentator - I am yet to hear him say one thing about politics that wouldn’t make me think he’s a dumbass. He’s a braindead leftoid, always has been. Kissinger should have nothing to say regarding war after Vietnam, Cambodia and the rest of his involvement in Indochina. I don’t take advice from old farts who are an inch removed from being war criminals. I am firmly of the belief that harsh economic sanctions are the pathway to victory here, my only problem with it is that they also hit innocent civilians on both sides. I don’t blame Russia for that though - I blame western government who have gutted their own manufacturing/production capabilities over the course of the last few decades. Will they learn anything at all from this? Absolutely not, but that’s a different problem entirely.


Chomsky and Kissinger (in the US; there are high profile people in Germany who wrote an open letter to the German government) are not exactly friends of Putin. If even they warn the West, it should make you stop and think.

In the open letter the signatories point out that decisions regarding the suffering of Ukrainian civilians cannot only be delegated to the Ukrainian government.
I`m not sure I agree on this, but it is worth exploring.


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## Xzi (Jun 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Chomsky and Kissinger (in the US; there are high profile people in Germany who wrote an open letter to the German government) are not exactly friends of Putin. If even they warn the West, it should make you stop and think.
> 
> In the open letter the signatories point out that decisions regarding the suffering of Ukrainian civilians cannot only be delegated to the Ukrainian government.
> I`m not sure I agree on this, but it is worth exploring.


When were these warnings even issued?  Because it's worth noting the other reason nobody takes Russia's threats of nuclear warfare seriously is that they make that threat just about every other week, and often in response to the smallest disagreements or grievances.  The Kremlin is the boy who cried wolf, and so much of the world tuned them out years ago.


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## Dr_Faustus (Jun 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> When were these warnings even issued?  Because it's worth noting the other reason nobody takes Russia's threats of nuclear warfare seriously is that they make that threat just about every other week, and often in response to the smallest disagreements or grievances.  The Kremlin is the boy who cried wolf, and so much of the world tuned them out years ago.


I also want to point out that even if Russia did in fact use nuclear arms in this he would basically be attacking the land that he is so hard on wanting for himself, plus if any of those arms hits near Pripyat its going to be a world wide level shitshow for Russia.

The other thing to note as well as most nuclear payloads have a decay period that if not used will degrade and no longer be effective as a true nuclear arm. If Russia has not been keeping up with these arms that would hinder them greatly in the event of threat use.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 22, 2022)

Alright, we can establish that Russia is never going to use nukes first; no matter how sick their leader or badly beaten they are on the battlefield or how far their economy collapses. In fact, it has a non-first strike policy, unlike the US - the only country which has ever used them.

But what makes you so sure the West would never use them? Here´s an idea: Russia strikes a target close to a NATO border in order to stop weapon delivery. Poland (or another country) fires back. It escalates. Impossible? No. Likely? No, but certainly in the range of 1%.
So how dear is Ukraine to you that you would play Russian roulette with one bullet in one of 100 chambers?


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## Dr_Faustus (Jun 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Alright, we can establish that Russia is never going to use nukes first; no matter how sick their leader or badly beaten they are on the battlefield or how far their economy collapses. In fact, it has a non-first strike policy, unlike the US - the only country which has ever used them.



Okay, we have ever used them in one scenario, which was WWII, against Japan, who attacked first at Pearl Harbor. The fruits from the labor that is the Manhattan Project were deployed at Japan because we might as well have given the clear intent they had against us in the war by striking first. It was an act of retaliation and it was a powerful enough message to not come shitting on our front door again.

Also if you completely looked over what the whole Cold War was about between Russia and the US as well as its allies with the increase tension of both sides threatening Nuclear war with the end result that no one wins at the end. But I am sure wherever you are being taught your history at that this is clearly publicly known and accessible information.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> But what makes you so sure the West would never use them? Here´s an idea: Russia strikes a target close to a NATO border in order to stop weapon delivery. Poland (or another country) fires back. It escalates. Impossible? No. Likely? No, but certainly in the range of 1%.
> So how dear is Ukraine to you that you would play Russian roulette with one bullet in one of 100 chambers?



Because after WWII ended we have not had any viable enough reason to go that far again unless we really had to. We do not instigate the concept of nuclear war, primarily because the fact it exists alone is enough to make people worry about all life getting nuked off this planet since now most developed countries are capable of making their own. I mean for fucks sake we did not even use it in the Afghanistan/Iraq war "against terror" and that could have been a solid example of us giving every reason to being that they struck us first, and just like Japan, could have been dealt with swiftly. Why did that not happen? Because unlike the 40's we now have a checks and balances system in the concept of dropping nukes on other populations is seen as not such a great thing anymore in the global eye. There has been constant push for disarming nukes and stopping development programs to try and not go this route but at the end of the day every country wants to have that "wild card" option if all else reason fails in this world. The Cold War taught us that no one wants to start the end of the world, because whoever launches first, they will be the first to lose before anyone else. 

Again, your talks, your scenario is not at all likely. We were attacked on our mainland by foreign entities since Japan, and while we did go to war with them, we did not rain nuclear arms from above on them as a retaliation, despite some people in this country really wanting to see it happen. Doing so would ultimately kick off the war that everyone will lose in the end. 

The problem is Putin is not well, whether it be in the head or in general health wise if all is true. If he is doing this as a play to secure some significance in his legacy after he is gone or just so he could relive his days when the KGB were still a thing, its an unsettling play as to how far will he go to leave his mark on history in this world. Famous or Infamous, you are immortalized by the acts you leave behind in this world and if that is what he wants, he really has little if anything left to lose now to get it.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 22, 2022)

Instead of lecturing you could have simply answered my question: How important is Ukraine to you?

For China, Taiwan is vital. They would absolutely go to war, including nuclear if they had to.

You said my scenario is "not at all likely". Neither is 1%. Russia would consider the nuclear option if its existence was threatened (which - from their perspective - looks like the goal of Western powers).

Since you are also not going to answer, let me take a guess: For the average American Ukraine is on number 1096 on their list of importance. Kamala Harris recently explained the Ukraine war to the American people as if they were children. Some children might actually say they care, but they don´t. Let´s be honest. To still risk nuclear war for it is reckless. But I guess that´s just part of being American.
Look at the Chinese. They would go to war over Taiwan. But not over the Solomon islands. They know Australia and the US wouldn´t like it and take it very seriously. Therefore they insist that there will be no permanent military base there.

Have been wasting enough time on this. Unless something major happens, bye.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Chomsky and Kissinger (in the US; there are high profile people in Germany who wrote an open letter to the German government) are not exactly friends of Putin. If even they warn the West, it should make you stop and think.
> 
> In the open letter the signatories point out that decisions regarding the suffering of Ukrainian civilians cannot only be delegated to the Ukrainian government.
> I`m not sure I agree on this, but it is worth exploring.


Nothing Chomsky and Kissinger say should ever be a reason to stop and think, unless you’re thinking about how exactly are they still alive.


Dr_Faustus said:


> I also want to point out that even if Russia did in fact use nuclear arms in this he would basically be attacking the land that he is so hard on wanting for himself, plus if any of those arms hits near Pripyat its going to be a world wide level shitshow for Russia.
> 
> The other thing to note as well as most nuclear payloads have a decay period that if not used will degrade and no longer be effective as a true nuclear arm. If Russia has not been keeping up with these arms that would hinder them greatly in the event of threat use.


My money’s on “they haven’t” because they’re poor as shit, comparatively speaking. They’re just not wealthy enough to keep an arsenal that size in working condition.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Instead of lecturing you could have simply answered my question: How important is Ukraine to you?
> 
> For China, Taiwan is vital. They would absolutely go to war, including nuclear if they had to.


“For China, Taiwan is essential, that’s why they will burn it to ash with nuclear fire, destroying the very reason why they want it in the first place” - this kind of logic decays faster than an unstable isotope. There are far superior weapons to use if you want to kill the population, but retain the infrastructure. Even tactical nukes aren’t quite like what people imagine - they’re not a giant “FU” fireball anymore, using a weapon like that makes no sense strategically. Traditional nukes are only suitable for an annihilation war - that’s why neither China nor Russia are going to use any in their conquest attempts.


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## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 23, 2022)

https://www.businessinsider.in/inte...d-england-is-no-more/articleshow/91305674.cms



> "Just one launch, Boris, and England is gone," Kiselyov said over a computer-generated simulation, referring to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. "Once and for all. Why play with us?"
> 
> "It actually seems like they're raving on the British Isles. Why threaten never-ending Russia with nuclear weapons when you're on an island, which, you know, is so small?" Kiselyov said. He added that "just one Sarmat missile" would be "sufficient to sink it once and for all."
> 
> ...


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 23, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> https://www.businessinsider.in/inte...d-england-is-no-more/articleshow/91305674.cms



and the UK has 200 nuclear warheads , imagine just what 1 would do to Moscow or St Petersburg


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> https://www.businessinsider.in/inte...d-england-is-no-more/articleshow/91305674.cms


Hilarious. Looks like Putin is taking a page out of Reagan’s book. Hey, remember that time when the Kremlin was so stupid that they actually believed the Star Wars program was a real thing, and that the U.S. put magical lasers in space? I remember. 

Even if Poseidon was operational (which it isn’t), it would be less destructive than just detonating the same size warhead conventionally. It doesn’t change the strategic balance - pre-existing weapons can achieve the same or better result as it is, an unmanned underwater drone is possibly the least threatening way to deploy a nuclear warhead, not to mention the most easily intercepted. Sarmat, or SATAN-II, has been in development for 13 years with nothing to show for it - Putin only just started threatening to deploy it in the field. Good job trying to scare the west with weapons that aren’t in service or are straight up stupid - we’re so scared.



JoeBloggs777 said:


> and the UK has 200 nuclear warheads , imagine just what 1 would do to Moscow or St Petersburg


Oh man, you’re threatening people with a good time.

Speaking of Russia’s nuclear capabilities…

https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/22/russ...lear-codes-briefcase-found-shot-16873192/amp/

Oh-oh, spaghetti-oh’s… The noose tightens. Someone in Putin’s immediate circle wanted to send a message, it seems. Vlad’s gonna have to find a new suitcase carrier.

For the record, the Izh 79-9TM is a non-lethal pneumatic pistol. Nobody in their right mind would try to “commit suicide” with one, not unless they were aiming for a long and painful death. Supposedly the guy was drunk, but it sure sounds like a scare tactic to me. Funny that his brother didn’t see a thing either… but what do I know, I’m just a guy on the Internet who knows gas pistols aren’t the ideal weapon to end your own life with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarych


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 23, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> “For China, Taiwan is essential, that’s why they will burn it to ash with nuclear fire, destroying the very reason why they want it in the first place”


I just want to point out that I didn´t say nuclear war against Taiwan. If the US or other countries get involved, it might turn nuclear. But they would not use nukes on what they regard as their territory - obviously.


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## JoeBloggs777 (Jun 23, 2022)

What does everyone think Putin will do about Kaliningrad?

nothing, invade Lithuania or block the Baltic sea ?


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I just want to point out that I didn´t say nuclear war against Taiwan. If the US or other countries get involved, it might turn nuclear. But they would not use nukes on what they regard as their territory - obviously.


So I don’t have to worry about Ukraine either then.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 23, 2022)

The only thing more foolish than invade Ukraine, is to presume that USA will be unharmed in a nuclear war against Russia.

Perhaps 1/6 os US population will be gone within a month, and for eventual allies nearby Russia will be worst. Japan and UK are only the rich ones that everyone remember, but tons that of nations are too poor to you to care about are also at risk.

And don't be fool twice thinking that 1970's nukes don't mass kill 2022 people.


----------



## spoggi (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> What does everyone think Putin will do about Kaliningrad?
> 
> nothing, invade Lithuania or block the Baltic sea ?


Invading Lithuania will spell disaster since they are member of NATO


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Jun 23, 2022)

NATO will get involved in the war... hoo scary 


Spoiler



only in hollywood movies never on the real life they just talking and bark


----------



## spoggi (Jun 24, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> NATO will get involved in the war... hoo scary
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Can't get more scary for the world


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jun 29, 2022)

Boris Johnson: Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if he were a woman

I guess it depends on the woman.


----------



## Maximumbeans (Jun 29, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> NATO will get involved in the war... hoo scary
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Shit-talking any side in a war is foolish. It might make you feel big and proud but talking up the better side like it's a football match is idiocy.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

So sexist of Boris to say that. A Putina would have been just as able to launch missiles at supermarkets.*

*Russia claims Western weapons were targeted near the supermarket which caused a fire; none of us is able to confirm or deny this claim but I have a hunch, people who are against Russia will do the latter, people who are for Russia, the former.


----------



## smf (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> *Russia claims Western weapons were targeted near the supermarket which caused a fire; none of us is able to confirm or deny this claim but I have a hunch, people who are against Russia will the the latter, people who are for Russia, the former.


Well, you can tell that Russia talks shit.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/worl...shopping-mall-new-images-ovn-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61967480

Maybe what they meant to say is that their missiles are shit and flew off course?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

smf said:


> Well, you can tell that Russia talks shit.
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/videos/worl...shopping-mall-new-images-ovn-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn


Can you see a crowded shopping mall being hit in this video?


----------



## smf (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Can you see a crowded shopping mall being hit in this video?


What does that have to do with anything?

You sound like someone who was caught outside a bank with a bag full of money and a gun, saying "but did you see me steal it?"

A missile hit the shopping center, that is a missile in the vicinity of the shopping center. What more do you want? Why would you doubt it?

Russia has put up so many theories, like there was nobody there & it was staged etc. That is proof enough that THEY think it was their missile that hit the shopping center. Or they wouldn't be trying so hard.

I bet if footage came out showing the shopping center being hit by a russian missile, then you wouldn't want to believe it.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

smf said:


> A missile hit the shopping center, that is a missile in the vicinity of the shopping center. What more do you want? Why would you doubt it?


I want to see a rocket hitting that supermarket. In the video I cannot even tell whether there is a supermarket. Can you? Give me the time stamp and where I should look.


smf said:


> Russia has put up so many theories, like there was nobody there & it was staged etc. That is proof enough that THEY think it was their missile that hit the shopping center. Or they wouldn't be trying so hard.


Who is "Russia"? The official Russian comment is that they did not hit the supermarket but some weapons close to it. The fire engulfed the supermarket. Claim against claim. Is it reckless? Yes. Is it reckless to store weapons close to a supermarket? Yes. If that is the case. I do not know whether there were weapons and neither do you. Unless you work for the CIA, they probably know.


smf said:


> I bet if footage came out showing the shopping center being hit by a russian missile, then you wouldn't want to believe it.


Now you admit that your original footage did not show it (!)
I bet next time anyone makes any claim against Russia you believe it. Because you want to. I am one of the very few objective observers.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I want to see a rocket hitting that supermarket. In the video I cannot even tell whether there is a supermarket. Can you? Give me the time stamp and there I should look.
> 
> Who is "Russia"? The official Russian comment is that they did not hit the supermarket but some weapons close to it. The fire engulfed the supermarket. Claim against claim. Is it reckless? Yes. Is it reckless to store weapons close to a supermarket? Yes. If that is the case. I do not know whether there were weapons and neither do you. Unless you work for the CIA, they probably know.
> 
> ...



Nah, you sound like a collaborationist stooge. One of those Quisling traitors.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

Name-calling. The best argument. Oh wait, it isn´t. Sorry.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Name-calling. The best argument. Oh wait, it isn´t. Sorry.


I understand you're sorry, and you should be.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

How am I collaborating with Russia? And how am I a traitor? Are we compatriots?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I understand you're sorry, and you should be.


Are you Russian or a Putinist fanboy, KOMRAD?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Are you Russian or a Putinist fanboy, KOMRAD?


I am not Russian but I do have Russian citizenship. I´m not a fanboy. Ignorant Westerners always like to personify countries. It´s so funny. You have no idea about Russian politics.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I am not Russian but I do have Russian citizenship. I´m not a fanboy. Ignorant Westerners always like to personify countries. It´s so funny. You have no idea about Russian politics.


There you go, so you're a Russian Citizen drunk on Russia Today and a putinist stooge.
Ignorant westerners LMAO said the guy who bought his degree at the Putinska university of stooges.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> There you go, so you're a Russian Citizen drunk on Russia Today and a putinist stooge.


The video evidence was on CNN. I have not dismissed it. You are really into name-calling instead of arguments. Your intelligence must be extraordinary.
I very rarely watch RT. But now that you mention it, I am interested what they have to say about it. I know, in your mind, that´s already agreeing with someone.

Are you a Zelensky stooge? Who am I kidding: as if the guy is in power. Are you a Biden stooge, good sir? Oops...


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The video evidence was on CNN. I have not dismissed it. You are really into name-calling instead of arguments. Your intelligence must be extraordinary.


Compared to yours, and in general, certainly. Also you need reading classes.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I very rarely watch RT. But now that you mention it, I am interested what they have to say about it. I know, in your mind, that´s already agreeing with someone.


Yeah right, I believe you (not).


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Are you a Zelensky stooge? Who am I kidding: as if the guy is in power. Are you a Biden stooge, good sir? Oops...


Are you a stooge of a dictator who is genociding an innocent country? yes you are, yes you are!
I'd rather be a Zelensky fanboy than the fanboy of a bloodthirsty monster like Putin. So yeah.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Are you a stooge of a dictator who is genociding an innocent country? yes you are, yes you are!
> I'd rather be a Zelensky fanboy than the fanboy of a bloodthirsty monster like Putin. So yeah.


Stooge of a dictator... So you call Putin a dictator. Will you only refer to the Russian president as president once the Russian people elect a ski instructor to your liking?

I am not a stooge for questioning war propaganda. Zelensky immediately combined his claim with demands. Are military units or weapons a justifiable target if they are moved to civilian areas? You know that Ukraine has been doing this all the time, right? It was even mentioned on German state television. It is the equivalent of holding your wife in front of you, hoping that the other guy does not hit women. I understand the tactic. It is legitimate from the perspective of the inferior military (as is terrorism). But let´s not act as if Ukraine does not engage in this tactic.

Just so you know, Russian citizens usually do not watch RT, neither do Chinese watch CGTN or Germans DW.


----------



## matthi321 (Jun 29, 2022)

i dont care who wins the war, i just want it to end so all these crazy prices will go back to normal


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 29, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Zelensky immediately combined his claim with demands.


Zelensky invaded nobody so not sure what your point is. His demand is that Russians go back to Russia or crawl inside Putin's intestine, whichever they prefer.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 30, 2022)

matthi321 said:


> i dont care who wins the war, i just want it to end so all these crazy prices will go back to normal


The sanctions are here to stay. The gas prices will remain high for a long time.
The general inflation is only partly due to high energy costs. Creating 20 (or was it 25?) percent of all dollars in history in a single year might have something to do with it.


----------



## SRKTiberious (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Zelensky invaded nobody so not sure what your point is. His demand is that Russians go back to Russia or crawl inside Putin's intestine, whichever they prefer.


No, he only bombed ethnic Russian civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk for 8 years after the CIA/Mossad-led Maidan revolution in an attempt to create 'Greater Israel' in the ancient Khazarian homeland.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

SRKTiberious said:


> No, he only bombed ethnic Russian civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk for 8 years after the CIA/Mossad-led Maidan revolution in an attempt to create 'Greater Israel' in the ancient Khazarian homeland.


Zelensky was elected in 2019, you imbecile. "He" did NOTHING for 8 years.


----------



## SRKTiberious (Jun 30, 2022)

Just continued his predecessor's crimes against humanity, that's all.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

SRKTiberious said:


> Just continued his predecessor's crimes against humanity, that's all.


Not sure what you're talking about since those 2014 events weren't legitimate to begin with, Ukrainians thinking they can split.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Not sure what you're talking about since those 2014 events weren't legitimate to begin with, Ukrainians thinking they can split.


Yeah pretending the Kremlin didn't fund and plan the whole thing is beyond disingenuous.  Putin has always wanted to take back every country that was formerly part of the USSR.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> is beyond disingenuous


You give them WAY too much credit. They're lying fash stooges, with a boner for Putin and his horse-riding boobs, thinking he's some sort of saviour of white men (only men btw, as most of them are women-hating incels).


----------



## SRKTiberious (Jun 30, 2022)

They _aren't_ Ukrainians. Haven't been. That region was made part of the Ukrainian SSR in 1921. They've always been ethnically *Russian*, speak *Russian*, and have ties to Moscow, not Kiev. Why else would (((Zelesnky))) even have to outlaw the *Russian* language if they weren't?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 30, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Yeah pretending the Kremlin didn't fund and plan the whole thing is beyond disingenuous.  Putin has always wanted to take back every country that was formerly part of the USSR.


No. The wars with Georgie and Ukraine were directly linked to NATO expansion. His statement about the greatest tragedy is regarding the fact that suddenly Soviet citizens were foreigners in post-soviet States (except Russia which is the legal heir) and the poverty resulting from the collapse. He claims that he does not want to unite with former Soviet states because (according to him) they drained the financial resources of Russia.
This is probably news to you because you do not speak the language and your elites do not want you to know this.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> and your elites do not want you to know this.


spoken like a true stooge of your elites.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> You give them WAY too much credit. They're lying fash stooges, with a boner for Putin and his horse-riding boobs, thinking he's some sort of saviour of white men (only men btw, as most of them are women-hating incels).


Russia is a multi-ethnic country. You are more likely to find white supremacy in Ukraine. You think once Ukraine is part of the EU, they will be more like Hungary/Poland or Sweden?
The far right in the US is split on the Ukraine question. E.g. Richard Spencer (who advocated for white-only country) and Greg Johnson (who dislikes Russia for not being ethnically nationalistic) are pro-Ukrainian, for example.



Dark_Ansem said:


> spoken like a true stooge of your elites.


That would be people like Merkel. In 2008 she had the courage to stop the plans for Georgia and Ukraine to becoming parts of NATO but then she faltered.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> No. The wars with Georgie and Ukraine were directly linked to NATO expansion.


Like a broken record.  If some people in those regions identified more as Russian then Ukrainian, they could've packed their bags and literally walked across the border from where they lived.  Instead they incited violence at the Kremlin's behest, because it was always about seizing more land.  Putin never got over the "manifest destiny" mentality.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia is a multi-ethnic country. You are more likely to find white supremacy in Ukraine. You think once Ukraine is part of the EU, they will be more like Hungary/Poland or Sweden?


Not because of any merit, just because it's really big, not even your dictators could genocide all the undesirables. I don't know what Ukraine and Ukranians will be if they become part of the EU, but I think they earned the right to try.


UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The far right in the US is split on the Ukraine question. E.g. Richard Spencer (who advocated for white-only country) and Greg Johnson (who dislikes Russia for not being ethnically nationalistic) are pro-Ukrainian, for example.


I couldn't care less about what the far right wankers think. They're the same people gushing over Putin, therefore they're traitors.


----------



## SRKTiberious (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I don't know what Ukraine and Ukranians will be if they become part of the EU, but I think they earned the right to try.


Hopefully, they'll become Russian via Ukraine ceasing to exist.

NATO had absolutely zero reason to exist after December 26, 1991 with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Russia has had several treaties with NATO guaranteeing no eastward expansion trampled on,  that now wants to park nukes on Russia's borders, and you're trying to call those of us who actually know what the fuck is going on 'traitors'? Nah, fuck off with that.


----------



## ut2k4master (Jun 30, 2022)

SRKTiberious said:


> Hopefully, they'll become Russian via Ukraine ceasing to exist.
> 
> NATO had absolutely zero reason to exist after December 26, 1991 with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Russia has had several treaties with NATO guaranteeing no eastward expansion trampled on,  that now wants to park nukes on Russia's borders, and you're trying to call those of us who actually know what the fuck is going on 'traitors'? Nah, fuck off with that.


but russia has the right to invade a sovereign country and massacre innocent people? youre a mental case...


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Not because of any merit, just because it's really big, not even your dictators could genocide all the undesirables.


The UK is multi-ethnic due to conquering the world and allowing Commonwealth citizens in. The US has genocided Native Americans and bought a lot of slaves.
Is that what you mean by merit? Elaborate, please.


Dark_Ansem said:


> I don't know what Ukraine and Ukranians will be if they become part of the EU, but I think they earned the right to try.


Your dictators can´t even handle Greece (6mio). Its debt crisis has not been solved.



Dark_Ansem said:


> I couldn't care less about what the far right wankers think. They're the same people gushing over Putin, therefore they're traitors.


So you condemn your own Nazis who are against Putin, but you praise Ukrainian Nazis who oppose Putin. Makes total sense.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jun 30, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The UK is multi-ethnic due to conquering the world and allowing Commonwealth citizens in. The US has genocided Native Americans and bought a lot of slaves.
> Is that what you mean by merit? Elaborate, please.
> 
> Your dictators can´t even handle Greece (6mio). Its debt crisis has not been solved.
> ...


No Nazis here, TYVM. 
Also, we know that UK and US suck. No need to remind me that


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 30, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> No Nazis here, TYVM.


There are people you would call Nazis (part of the far right throughout the West) who are against Putin. How are they traitors?
I assume you think Azov and Co are alright because they are against Putin.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Jul 1, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There are people you would call Nazis (part of the far right throughout the West) who are against Putin.


all 4 of them!


----------



## smf (Jul 1, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I want to see a rocket hitting that supermarket.


I don't care what you want to use for masturbating to.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So you call Putin a dictator. Will you only refer to the Russian president as president once the Russian people elect a ski instructor to your liking?


When Russian people elect someone who doesn't lock up or kill anyone who tries to stand in opposition.

Putin is done as far as the west is concerned. He is destroying Russia, lying on the internet about how great he is won't change anything. All these deals with the east are bad for Russia.

Anyway, we'll see how this ends up in 10 years when China owns Russia & all Russians are slaves to the CCP.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Your dictators can´t even handle Greece (6mio). Its debt crisis has not been solved.


Excellent example of "whataboutism". Greece will eventually work out. If Russia stopped trying to steal Ukraine and making up shit to justify it, Ukraine could join the EU and everyone will be happy except the Kremlin. Who are triggered by a country on their door step that they want to own, could show Russian citizens what life is like outside of their dictatorship.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 1, 2022)

smf said:


> I don't care what you want to use for masturbating to.


Your mother. Can you send me some videos?


----------



## linuxares (Jul 1, 2022)

If people keep up stupidity in this thread, I will send them on a vacation.


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Jul 10, 2022)

> Russia-Ukraine war: Moscow politician gets 7 years for denouncing war​



Well this shows you there is no freedom of speech in Russia, 



> Judge Olesya Mendeleyeva ruled he had carried out his crime "based on political hatred" and had misled Russians, prompting them to "feel anxiety and fear" about the military campaign.



Why is Putin not in the dock, the lies he's told is on video. he's responsible for the deaths of  1000's of people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62092196


----------



## spoggi (Jul 21, 2022)

What a close call, now that Putin doesn't shut down Nordstream 1 anyway
But lets see when winter comes, if he will use energy as a weapon, as they say 
in the Eu parlament.

And we Europeans will need to import gas from Usa, and other places around the world.
The only good thing you can say about climate change in this circumstances, is that the winters
will be warmer, so hopefully we are less dependent on gas


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jul 21, 2022)

ut2k4master said:


> but russia has the right to ........ and massacre innocent people?


Honestly...What did / do China to their own People......and nobody cares in Europe (or do we send all our Weapons / Money and Goods to China ?).....if China where next to Europe,of course,the People would cry against it....


----------



## spoggi (Jul 21, 2022)

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211030-putin-lashes-out-at-g20-over-vaccines

There maybe not be an direct link to the invation of Ukraine, but i dont think it helped on
putin's anger management. But still Russia invaded Ukraine 4 monts later


----------



## spoggi (Jul 28, 2022)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...5000-casualties-ukraine-war-far-us-estimates/

75.000 soldiers that's like 13% of the active Russian army
Compared with about 25.000 Ukrainian soldiers


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Jul 28, 2022)

There's hope that this war settles in Ukraine and doesn't spread to other countries.


----------



## spoggi (Jul 28, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> There's hope that this war settles in Ukraine and doesn't spread to other countries.


Lets hope so, and that it doesn't evolve to a nuclear war


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 13, 2022)

People get angry at me when I state that Ukrainians are also Russians.

Now Zelensky said the same. He wants to reclaim the name because he sees Ukraine as the rightful heir to the Kievan Rus. One of his advisors, Alexey Arestovich, suggests the name "Rus-Ukraine".

Amazing! It is similar to how the Republic of China sees itself as the rightful heir to all of China.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Aug 21, 2022)

I have followed Darya Dugina's assassination, and I have an observation that isn't really important in the scheme of things, but it's something I doubt will be much mentioned. Alexander Dugin was probably the intended target, because he was going to board the blown car and traded positions with his daughter in the last minute. Dugin is a political theorist whose ideas align with the russian government's, but he isn't directly connected to the government. Dugina was a journalist and political commentator, a media figure who appeared on russian television to analyse the Ukraine invasion. Yet, the news titles don't say "Darya Dugina killed", they say "Daughter of Alexander Dugin" or "Daughter of Russian ideologue", like he's some known entity for the western public or she didn't have a personal existence of her own.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 21, 2022)

It must have been Putin.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 21, 2022)

Ukraine is now looking to retake Crimea after months of Russia failing to make any advances.  Good shit.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/e...ed-crimea-as-ukraine-vows-to-retake-territory


----------



## spoggi (Aug 21, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> I have followed Darya Dugina's assassination, and I have an observation that isn't really important in the scheme of things, but it's something I doubt will be much mentioned. Alexander Dugin was probably the intended target, because he was going to board the blown car and traded positions with his daughter in the last minute. Dugin is a political theorist whose ideas align with the russian government's, but he isn't directly connected to the government. Dugina was a journalist and political commentator, a media figure who appeared on russian television to analyse the Ukraine invasion. Yet, the news titles don't say "Darya Dugina killed", they say "Daughter of Alexander Dugin" or "Daughter of Russian ideologue", like he's some known entity for the western public or she didn't have a personal existence of her own.


She had it coming. She was a heavy supporter of the Russian invasion


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Ukraine is now looking to retake Crimea after months of Russia failing to make any advances.  Good shit.
> 
> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/e...ed-crimea-as-ukraine-vows-to-retake-territory


Sure. As soon as the UK retakes the US. Mexico has a better shot at New Mexico.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Sure. As soon as the UK retakes the US. Mexico has a better shot at New Mexico.


Are you seriously still pretending like modern Russia is one of the all-time great military powers while they're rolling rusted-out tanks from the 1940s onto the front lines?  They're even desperate enough to ask North Korea for help, FFS.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Are you seriously still pretending like modern Russia is one of the all-time great military powers while they're rolling rusted-out tanks from the 1940s onto the front lines?  They're even desperate enough to ask North Korea for help, FFS.


In this conflict of two, only one side has the power to escalate. They would throw a FOAB (father of all bombs) on Kiev before giving up Crimea. The seizure of Crimea was the main reason for Russian involvement in the first place. After the Crimean Wars, Russia was not going to allow Western battle ships over there. 

If I had tanks from 1940s, I would use them now. I hope you are referring to the Russian military, not Donbass militia who went to war memorial and re-used their grand-fathers tanks. This is not something to ridicule. It is poetic (if the story is true).


----------



## Xzi (Aug 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In this conflict of two, only one side has the power to escalate. They would throw a FOAB (father of all bombs) on Kiev before giving up Crimea.


If they had the power to escalate, they would've done it months ago, as the inability to occupy any portion of Ukraine for more than a couple days is a massive embarrassment for the Kremlin.  Using nukes is not an option, as that would trigger open season on Russia for the rest of the world.  Mutually assured destruction holds.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If I had tanks from 1940s, I would use them now.


LMAO as if they have a choice.  All their newer vehicles and equipment have already been thoroughly decimated, except for maybe a third of their air force.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Aug 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In this conflict of two, only one side has the power to escalate. They would throw a FOAB (father of all bombs) on Kiev before giving up Crimea. The seizure of Crimea was the main reason for Russian involvement in the first place. After the Crimean Wars, Russia was not going to allow Western battle ships over there.


That's ok, if we want to switch to Fallout world.
Also, seizure of Crimea? Crimea is part of Ukraine, not Russia.


----------



## Dark_Phoras (Aug 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> That's ok, if we want to switch to Fallout world.
> Also, seizure of Crimea? Crimea is part of Ukraine, not Russia.



Russia invaded Ukraine and Crimea was part of Ukraine... but Crimea is hard to judge as to whom it belongs culturally, it has been part of so many countries over the last 500 years, and has only been part of Ukraine from 1991 forwards. Most of these years it belonged to Russia, though. I remember a Chekhov story set in Crimea, if my memory doesn't fail me.

P.S.: I should clarify that, in my view, the russian invasion of Crimea is wrong, and the territory is part of Ukraine.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If they had the power to escalate, they would've done it months ago, as the inability to occupy any portion of Ukraine for more than a couple days is a massive embarrassment for the Kremlin.  Using nukes is not an option, as that would trigger open season on Russia for the rest of the world.  Mutually assured destruction holds.
> 
> 
> LMAO as if they have a choice.  All their newer vehicles and equipment have already been thoroughly decimated, except for maybe a third of their air force.


-They haven´t declared war or implemented a general draft.
-Any portion? They are holding 1/5 of the country.
-A MOAB/FOAB isn´t nuclear.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Aug 22, 2022)

Interesting to see "anti-government" """libertarians""" come out in support of Russian imperialism because "W-Well Ukraine used to belong to them!"

lol, lmao even.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Aug 22, 2022)

So...... This thread has been the most on topic.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Interesting to see "anti-government" """libertarians""" come out in support of Russian imperialism because "W-Well Ukraine used to belong to them!"
> 
> lol, lmao even.


I´m not against government or a libertarian. Not sure whether you meant ((( ))) instead of your """ """.
I´m for ending the war because I actually feel sorry for Russians killing each other. And yes, Ukrainians are (the real) Russians according to Zelensky.

One way or the other, Ukraine will be neutral. We could have had this result in early 2022, with thousands of lives saved, countless cities still standing, millions not displaced and the world economy not suffering an additional blow. The West (esp. UK/USA) chose otherwise, because that´s just how much they enjoy seeing Russians suffer. Disgusting.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Aug 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´m not against government or a libertarian. Not sure whether you meant ((( ))) instead of your """ """.
> I´m for ending the war because I actually feel sorry for Russians killing each other. And yes, Ukrainians are (the real) Russians according to Zelensky.
> 
> One way or the other, Ukraine will be neutral. We could have had this result in early 2022, with thousands of lives saved, countless cities still standing, millions not displaced and the world economy not suffering an additional blow. The West (esp. UK/USA) chose otherwise, because that´s just how much they enjoy seeing Russians suffer. Disgusting.


People aren't against the Russian people, There against there president.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 22, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> -They haven´t declared war or implemented a general draft.


Losses mount whether or not they admit to being at war.  And a draft would be an admission to his people that Putin is losing.  All he has left is his "strongman" false persona.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> -Any portion? They are holding 1/5 of the country.


All of which is contested territory that changes hands almost daily.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> -A MOAB/FOAB isn´t nuclear.


They've already been dropping everything short of nukes, it's not making a difference.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 22, 2022)

The Russian Activist Army has claimed responsibility for the assassination of Darya Dugina.  Putin can't even keep his own house in order.

https://www.ibtimes.com/russian-act...g-daughter-putins-spiritual-guide-war-3604184


----------



## sombrerosonic (Aug 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The Russian Activist Army has claimed responsibility for the assassination of Darya Dugina.  Putin can't even keep his own house in order.
> 
> https://www.ibtimes.com/russian-act...g-daughter-putins-spiritual-guide-war-3604184


Wait a couple of days..... and they would commit """Suicide"""


----------



## Xzi (Aug 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Wait a couple of days..... and they would commit """Suicide"""


Just the fact that such resistance movements exist inside of Russia and are becoming more active further demonstrates a turning tide.  There will always be those who find their way to the truth through all the pro-imperialist propaganda.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Aug 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Just the fact that such resistance movements exist inside of Russia and are becoming more active further demonstrates a turning tide.  There will always be those who find their way to the truth through all the pro-imperialist propaganda.


It's honestly quite exciting. Would love to see the dismantlement of imperialism worldwide.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Are you seriously still pretending like modern Russia is one of the all-time great military powers while they're rolling rusted-out tanks from the 1940s onto the front lines?  They're even desperate enough to ask North Korea for help, FFS.


Russia ain’t sh*t. I don’t know why people are scared of the giant on clay legs. As a quick reminder, the invasion of Iraq took 1 month, 1 week and 4 days. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began on February 24th, it’s been nearly 6 months, and Russian forces were supposed to be overwhelmingly stronger than the Ukrainian defenders. Dudes are driving cardboard tanks, it’s laughable. There’s been a “Russian parade” in Kiev recently - a parade of their broken armor, as Ukrainians pointed and laughed.



Given the amount of time that’s passed, they should’ve conquered the country 10 times over at this point, nobody expected this conflict to last longer than a week or two. This just confirms what I’ve been saying for a very, very long time - Russia’s more bark than bite and not worth anyone’s attention, the real danger lies further in the east. They’ve got old tech, no money and no strategy.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Aug 22, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> the real danger lies further in the east.


There's pretty much only China, Japan and NK there. Unless you're saying AUS and NZ are dangerous? Oh and of course, the further east you get, the closer to the US...


----------



## LainaGabranth (Aug 22, 2022)

I always wonder if people who really want us to go to war with nations like China or Russia would join the frontlines themselves


----------



## spoggi (Aug 22, 2022)

So the Russians want Natalya Vovk handed over by the Estonians for planting
the car bomb...LOL that's never gonna happen


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I always wonder if people who really want us to go to war with nations like China or Russia would join the frontlines themselves


Americans like to put others on front line to defend and expand their empire. They sell the guns, they expand their influence and watch everything from TV. 

They call that "softpower".


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Aug 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> People aren't against the Russian people, There against there president.


There was open racism on Geman state television (where a female expert explained the nature of Russians and their acceptence of war and death). Russians were banned from all kinds of events (including cat competitions), were made to disavow their government etc. 
Imagine Jews being treated like this.
So yes, "people" are against the Russian people. What you mean is: people like you accept the minority of Russians who think the same way about the Russian government as you do.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Aug 23, 2022)

"People say negative things about Russians on TV, imagine if this was said about a completely different group who historically has been the victim of a literal fucking genocide that tried to wipe them out of _*existence*_, this is completely equatable to the same thing as saying Russia is bad."

I'm glad these forums are accessible to lobotomites like UDR.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 12, 2022)

Looks like we're getting close to the inevitable conclusion of this conflict.  Ukraine has gained a lot of ground in the East and South in recent days, and in the North they've got Russia pushed back all the way to the border.

The Russian army is losing a battalion every day as counterattacks accelerate

and

A former US general has warned that the world should prepare for the total collapse of Russia


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Looks like we're getting close to the inevitable conclusion of this conflict.  Ukraine has gained a lot of ground in the East and South in recent days, and in the North they've got Russia pushed back all the way to the border.
> 
> The Russian army is losing a battalion every day as counterattacks accelerate
> 
> ...


COLLAPSE OF RUSSIA?


----------



## djpannda (Sep 12, 2022)

Not only it has suffered a huge military Embarrassment but now the local Government are starting to Turn..


Tick TOCK!!!


----------



## spoggi (Sep 12, 2022)

Even though Russia has been pushed back in the war, it opens up a dangerous
situation, where Putin could choose to use chemical or tactical nuclear weapons
But let us see how things go over the next months. If he choose to do so, it could
mean a Nato Russia conflict


----------



## djpannda (Sep 12, 2022)

spoggi said:


> Even though Russia has been pushed back in the war, it opens up a dangerous
> situation, where Putin could choose to use chemical or tactical nuclear weapons
> But let us see how things go over the next months. If he choose to do so, it could
> mean a Nato Russia conflict


Putin knows if real Chemical or Nuke, will  Activate Nato.. Russia can barely hold its own with just Ukraine (with Natos old Toys)
Putin doing that just means he does not Care anymore and wants to see the world burn.


----------



## spoggi (Sep 12, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Putin knows if real Chemical or Nuke, will  Activate Nato.. Russia can barely hold its own with just Ukraine (with Natos old Toys)
> Putin doing that just means he does not Care anymore and wants to see the world burn.


That's what im afraid of, because Putin being sick maybe means he has nothing to loose
But i hope im wrong


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

Authoritarians BTFO!


----------



## djpannda (Sep 12, 2022)

spoggi said:


> That's what im afraid of, because Putin being sick maybe means he has nothing to loose
> But i hope im wrong


well hopefully, even if he provides those orders, it will be ignored or he will be over pulled . (There has been rumors of people plotting against Putin since the start of the WAR. but 3 days ago we have actually local politicians  and Russian TV new host calling for the end of this)


----------



## spoggi (Sep 12, 2022)

djpannda said:


> well hopefully, even if he provides those orders, it will be ignored or he will be over pulled . (There has been rumors of people plotting against Putin since the start of the WAR. but 3 days ago we have actually local politicians  and Russian TV new host calling for the end of this)


Yes and it's so good to hear


----------



## pustal (Sep 14, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Looks like we're getting close to the inevitable conclusion of this conflict.  Ukraine has gained a lot of ground in the East and South in recent days, and in the North they've got Russia pushed back all the way to the border.
> 
> The Russian army is losing a battalion every day as counterattacks accelerate
> 
> ...


It is certainly looking good for Ukraine now, but historically, when Russia fails it regroups, changes military leadership and tries again.

Russia right now has a severy military equipment problem, but still has the numeric advantage (although it screwed it's demographic future a lot worse than already was).

Russia has already lost. This will likely be the end of Russia as a military superpower or a superpower at all even, we won't see many if any wars with direct russian involvement far from it's physical boarders and it'll likelly suffer from an economical recession from the likes we never seen.

Nevertheless it still has a chance in this particular war.



djpannda said:


> well hopefully, even if he provides those orders, it will be ignored or he will be over pulled . (There has been rumors of people plotting against Putin since the start of the WAR. but 3 days ago we have actually local politicians  and Russian TV new host calling for the end of this)



Overthrowing Putin plots is more hopefully thinking than anything else I'd say. People with power are the oligarchs. There are two types of oligarchs:


those that were before Putin, robbed the state blind after the fall of the Soviet Union and are genereally hated by the population, those are in still in power because Putin allows them to be in trade for paying their taxes and not messing in politics aside supporting Putin. Any dissent risk having Putin overthrowing them, a scenario that would actually benefit Putin with public preception;
those that are in power because of Putin, they owe everything to Putin and also know that Putin can take everything away, including their lives. They are however extremelly loyal.
Any of these groups know that if Putin falls, so probably will they.

Then you have the military. The military is indoctrinated that Russian needs to reach the natural choke points to defend itself:




Ukraine is in the way of two and a half of them, so this war from a russian miltary standpoint is totally justified.

Finally, public perception is highly controlled by the russian misinformation and intelligence machine. Some younger people are more informed but the overwelming majority of people there are captive of what the state wants them to believe. If Russian misinformation had the impact it had in the West, imagine that power it has in its own country.

Peter Zeihan posted a great vlog about it today:


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

pustal said:


> Finally, public perception is highly controlled by the russian misinformation and intelligence machine. Some younger people are more informed but the overwelming majority of people there are captive of what the state wants them to believe. If Russian misinformation had the impact it had in the West, imagine that power it has in it's own country.


I can confirm this is the case. I've had quite a few talks with some older Russian people and you'll find that a significant portion of them recall living under the Union and some even want to go back to it. You can even find a lot of videos on youtube of people talking to older generations of Russian citizens and there's a LOT of anti-American and anti-Western sentiments going around. That said, it's one thing to be gripped by propaganda, and it's another to recognize the absolute shit state of your country. The longer this war goes on, the longer Russia will suffer economically and the longer Putin's grip will as well. On the whole, I don't expect Putin to be ousted, but I do think his chain of command is going to suffer a lot more than it already is.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 15, 2022)

pustal said:


> It is certainly looking good for Ukraine now, but historically, when Russia fails it regroups, changes military leadership and tries again.


They're running out of reliable fighters to regroup with, as they've lost several squads that were supposedly elite enough to take on NATO forces.  Their equipment shortages are even more dire than that, and they've been leaving a lot of still-functioning vehicles behind as they hastily retreat.  

As for a meaningful change in military leadership, well, that would be limited to giving Putin himself the boot, and that would be ball game as his replacement would understand the futility of efforts to annex Ukraine.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 25, 2022)

Ukraine will never accept the loss of its territories. Russia will consider attempts at reconquering them attacks on their country. Ergo no peace for decades. Well played, America.
It will either end with a collapse of Moscow or Kiev.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 25, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ukraine will never accept the loss of its territories. Russia will consider attempts at reconquering them attacks on their country. Ergo no peace for decades. Well played, America.
> It will either end with a collapse of Moscow or Kiev.


Decades he says, lmao.  I'd be very surprised if Russia's offensive survives the winter, as Putin is already desperate enough to be drafting people with zero combat experience or training.  And most of them are likely to surrender based on the favorable terms outlined by Ukraine, as opposed to responding well to the threats of torture and/or death coming from the Kremlin.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 25, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Decades he says, lmao.  I'd be very surprised if Russia's offensive survives the winter, as Putin is already desperate enough to be drafting people with zero combat experience or training.  And most of them are likely to surrender based on the favorable terms outlined by Ukraine, as opposed to responding well to the threats of torture and/or death coming from the Kremlin.


Shocking no one at all, the racial essentialist has no understanding of geopolitics either


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 25, 2022)

If you think Russia will retreat from Donbass after incorporating it into its territory, you don´t know Russians. 

Also, where did u get the idea from that there will be soldiers without training? It will be difficult to find those without as service is mendatory (2 years).


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 26, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Not only it has suffered a huge military Embarrassment but now the local Government are starting to Turn..
> 
> 
> Tick TOCK!!!



they just signed their death warrent with that then again all it takes is one good shot to remove him from office oor poison his favorite food/beverage


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 26, 2022)

djpannda said:


> Putin knows if real Chemical or Nuke, will  Activate Nato.. Russia can barely hold its own with just Ukraine (with Natos old Toys)
> Putin doing that just means he does not Care anymore and wants to see the world burn.


shit i've been saying make the world burn for a few months now hell I'd break out a lawn chair and sit as a nuke barrels towards my city surrounded by military bases (we have 6 wiithin a 50 mile radius prime target) whoever made that bright idea is a moron (several did in out 250+ year history)


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you think Russia will retreat from Donbass after incorporating it into its territory, you don´t know Russians.
> 
> Also, where did u get the idea from that there will be soldiers without training? It will be difficult to find those without as service is mendatory (2 years).


They retreated rather quickly from Central Europe and half of Eastern Europe after their economy collapsed in ‘89. I should know. :V


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 26, 2022)

Foxi4 said:


> They retreated rather quickly from Central Europe and half of Eastern Europe after their economy collapsed in ‘89. I should know. :V


They were viewed as occupiers there. Not so in Donbass or Crimea. Many of the Russians killed in action are actually fighters from the Donbass, i.e. Ukrainians. This has been the case since 2014.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 26, 2022)

What´s so funny, Xzi?
If you don´t think a lot of people in the Donbass and Crimea see the Russians as liberators after 8 years of shelling, you know nothing about Ukraine. The uprising began in those areas precisely because they were considered alien by the new regime in Kiev in 2014.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If you think Russia will retreat from Donbass after incorporating it into its territory, you don´t know Russians.
> 
> Also, where did u get the idea from that there will be soldiers without training? It will be difficult to find those without as service is mendatory (2 years).


If they don't retreat, they're staring down a total collapse of the Russian military, which is a considerably worse outcome for ol' Putler.

They're desperate enough to be conscripting both prisoners and protestors now, neither of which will have any loyalty to the Kremlin.  Most of the former military being called back to serve are too old to be effective.  And all flights out of Russia were sold out the minute Putin announced the mobilization.  Support for this imperialist invasion is dwindling down to nothing.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> If they don't retreat, they're staring down a total collapse of the Russian military, which is a considerably worse outcome for ol' Putler.


Even Hitler didn´t manage to create a total collapse. They have up to 25mio men if need be.


Xzi said:


> They're desperate enough to be conscripting both prisoners and protestors now, neither of which will have any loyalty to the Kremlin.


I agree. Probably involves some kind of deal though.



Xzi said:


> Most of the former military being called back to serve are too old to be effective.


The most effective German troops in WW2 were often the old guys from WW1. 30 is considered old btw.


Xzi said:


> And all flights out of Russia were sold out the minute Putin announced the mobilization.  Support for this imperialist invasion is dwindling down to nothing.


Which is not surprising. Most people don´t want to fight, see Afghanistan. Or why did Ukraine ban men from leaving the country right after the Russian invasion started?


----------



## Xzi (Sep 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Even Hitler didn´t manage to create a total collapse. They have up to 25mio men if need be.


And equipment for none of them, nor enough police to force them all into battle at gunpoint.  You really must hate the Russia's working class to even suggest it.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I agree. Probably involves some kind of deal though.


Mostly just threats of torture and/or death, as is typical of the Kremlin.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The most effective German troops in WW2 were often the old guys from WW1. 30 is considered old btw.


This isn't WW2.  They're walking into a literal meat grinder, and the weapons the US has provided Ukraine will definitely outlast any amount of meat Russia can throw at them.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Which is not surprising. Most people don´t want to fight, see Afghanistan


And even fewer want to fight for a dictator's last gasp attempt at retaining relevancy on the world stage.  Russia's already lost, but Putin's only acknowledgement of that fact will come in the form of two bullets to the back of his skull.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> And equipment for none of them, nor enough police to force them all into battle at gunpoint.  You really must hate the Russia's working class to even suggest it.


Equipment can be produced. I care about both the Ukrainian and Russian working class. I was born in Ukraine. Senseless killing for European "values". The only "value" the EU and Ukraine share is the hatred against Russians.


Xzi said:


> This isn't WW2.  They're walking into a literal meat grinder, and the weapons the US has provided Ukraine will definitely outlast any amount of meat Russia can throw at them.


Are you on drugs? The Germans killed 27mio Soviets, half of them soldiers (though the percentages vary). THIS was a meat grinder. Even if you think the initial Russian forces have been elimated (which not even Ukraine claims), we are still far off from WW2 scenarios.


Xzi said:


> Russia's already lost, but Putin's only acknowledgement of that fact will come in the form of two bullets to the back of his skull.


Russia loses once it retreats from Donbass. It won´t happen. Mark my words. They will probably gain more territory than they occupy now, but I wouldn´t bet on it. Only the first part.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 26, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Equipment can be produced.


Not fast enough.  The Russians were already saddled with extremely outdated equipment at the start of the invasion.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Are you on drugs? The Germans killed 27mio Soviets, half of them soldiers (though the percentages vary). THIS was a meat grinder.


It was still nothing compared to the efficiency of the modern weapons being provided to Ukraine.  Ukraine doesn't need even a quarter as much manpower to mow down the same number of invading Russians.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Russia loses once it retreats from Donbass. It won´t happen. Mark my words.


Oh I believe you, but that just means they'll lose every last fighter in Donbass instead.  What do you think that will do to public sentiment against Putin inside of Russia, given that it's already souring?  Military recruitment/enlistment offices are being torched left and right as well.  Hiding away in a bunker will only keep the scared little mouse safe for so long.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 26, 2022)

Dude Russia is out here giving their troops shit that's so old it's pre Cold War. Russian troops are absolutely being sent to their deaths and I think at this point Putin is just using conscription as a legally cleaner sounding death sentence for dissidents rather than just having them killed off officially.


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 26, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Not fast enough.  The Russians were already saddled with extremely outdated equipment at the start of the invasion.
> 
> *
> It was still nothing compared to the efficiency of the modern weapons being provided to Ukraine.  Ukraine doesn't need even a quarter as much manpower to mow down the same number of invading Russians.*
> ...


make me wonder how (in) effective the russian Body armor is and how many hollow point (dubbed "Cop killer")  rounds Ukraine has compared to US tech (Dragon skin armor which can stop almost any bullet in its tracks even Hollow point) and other tech Russia has next to nothing if it wasn't for their nuclear capability or their buddies N korea and china) the USA would've been more "hands on" with this war supplying direct support speaking of nukes if putin even fires one all of Nato will be on his ass and possiable assassination plots will probably be drawn up but pretty sure the high ranking russian officials are already plotting his demise (another reason he's hiding, he's unable to even trust his own advisors from not killing him)


----------



## KuntilanakMerah (Sep 27, 2022)

fck i hope russia didn't use nuke, it could trigger nuke war and world war 3


----------



## Viri (Sep 27, 2022)

I legit believe that someone would off Putin before he could use a nuke(at least I really hope). If he's trying to become a Tsar, someone should tell him what happened to the last Tsar of Russia. lol


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

KuntilanakMerah said:


> fck i hope russia didn't use nuke, it could trigger nuke war and world war 3


If it offers you any solace, Putin's regime is collapsing from the inside to dereliction and people ignoring his orders. I doubt the chain of command would let him nuke much.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

You can tell who uses this site as a social outlet and a ranting soapbox. 

It's amazing how much time some folks spend in these forums.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> You can tell who uses this site as a social outlet and a ranting soapbox.
> 
> It's amazing how much time some folks spend in these forums.


You can also tell that 99% of the pol thread are left leaning


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> You can also tell that 99% of the pol thread are left leaning


I wish this site would just stick to gaming topics. It wasn't like this when I joined. The vibe and culture have completely changed. 

If you don't support 56 genders and hate Trump, you have a target on your back. On a GAMING site.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I wish this site would just stick to gaming topics. It wasn't like this when I joined. The vibe and culture have completely changed.
> 
> If you don't support 56 genders and hate Trump, you have a target on your back. On a GAMING site.


Welcome to Twitter when you enter these threads, They usally in these threads spamming the 3 fucking things everyone is tired about. just avoid it, there mostly assholes here

Only Xzi and me are active outside this area who post often here. Never seen anyone who post here often are out here..... well i have seen a post here and there by LainaGabranth from time to time


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I wish this site would just stick to gaming topics. It wasn't like this when I joined. The vibe and culture have completely changed.
> 
> If you don't support 56 genders and hate Trump, you have a target on your back. On a GAMING site.


Sorry that some people are minorities. I know you're very mad about it. It's okay though, you'll get over it.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> You can also tell that 99% of the pol thread are left leaning


No way are 99% of the people in here intelligent.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> No way are 99% of the people in here intelligent.


No one is obligated to be a "model minority" on the terms of the insecure. People who are offended by their existence should either get over it or be quiet.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> Fuck off then, trump supporting scum shouldn't be welcome anywhere and right-leaning inbreeds have been able to hide behind dOnT DiScUsS PoWotIcKS PwEaSE for way too long. About time you all learned how disliked you are.


"You can't have a opinion if you support a side i dont like" is what you just said. If some guy liked biden, I accept that but i dont go 'YOUR BAD FOR YOUR OPINION". same for trump. accept other people opinion, (Unless there fucked up)


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Only Xzi and me are active outside this area who post often here. Never seen anyone who post here often are out here..... well i have seen a post here and there by LainaGabranth from time to time


I don't own a 3DS or hacked switch yet, but I'm lurking the PS4 exploit threads so I can get more work. I used to do a lot of console hacking and modding for friends and shit, but quit around 2019 or so.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I don't own a 3DS or hacked switch yet, but I'm lurking the PS4 exploit threads so I can get more work. I used to do a lot of console hacking and modding for friends and shit, but quit around 2019 or so.


Huh, Im lurking around in the EOF and the DS, PSP, PC, and Wii area. Working on a port of zsnes for the DSi for a bunch of people to make snes alot better on that device


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> "You can't have a opinion if you support a side i dont like" is what you just said. If some guy liked biden, I accept that but i dont go 'YOUR BAD FOR YOUR OPINION". same for trump. accept other people opinion, (Unless there fucked up)


Have you considered that even well-intentioned support for something can still lead to bad thing? There is unironically no factual or objective obligation on any part to entertain any idea at all.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> Fuck off then, trump supporting scum shouldn't be welcome anywhere and right-leaning inbreeds have been able to hide behind dOnT DiScUsS PoWotIcKS PwEaSE for way too long. About time you all learned how disliked you are.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Have you considered that even well-intentioned support for something can still lead to bad thing? There is unironically no factual or objective obligation on any part to entertain any idea at all.


Yes i have, I just think that BOTH sides deserve a word, left and right. Everyone has opinions, some are just extremist and ruin everything for everyone. Everyone has a voice and should be heard (Unless it's fucked up, then they dont deserve to be heard out)


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Yes i have, I just think that BOTH sides deserve a word, left and right. Everyone has opinions, some are just extremist and ruin everything for everyone. Everyone has a voice and should be heard (Unless it's fucked up, then they dont deserve to be heard out)


So let me ask you this. Why are you telling minority groups that they have to hear out people who hate them and want them dead?


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> "You can't have a opinion if you support a side i dont like" is what you just said. If some guy liked biden, I accept that but i dont go 'YOUR BAD FOR YOUR OPINION". same for trump. accept other people opinion, (Unless there fucked up)


I don't give a fuck about that geriatric dickhead either


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> So let me ask you this. Why are you telling minority groups that they have to hear out people who hate them and want them dead?


Who hates minority groups and wants them dead? Honestly. Have you ever actually met any kind of racial supremacist in your entire life, in person? 

I doubt it.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> I don't give a fuck about that geriatric dickhead either


You're just gunning for a time-out, aren't you? 

Here's some free advice, worth what you pay for it. 

If you're mad, stay off of any social platforms. You might need a Snickers. You aren't you when you're hangry.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> So let me ask you this. Why are you telling minority groups that they have to hear out people who hate them and want them dead?


Im not saying that, Im saying that people have to be heard out, left or right. NOT people who hate others for there skin color, race, sexuallity, or any of that stuff.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> NOT people who hate others for there skin color, race, sexuallity, or any of that stuff.


So literally not one single Trump supporter.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Im not saying that, Im saying that people have to be heard out, left or right. NOT people who hate others for there skin color, race, sexuallity, or any of that stuff.


But that is the fundamental end goal of your position. You're telling people that they should welcome people who hate them into their communities by having to "hear" people out. Even you realize there are exceptions that can and should be excluded. People do *not* have to be heard out, actually. There's no obligation whatsoever in any capacity to have to hear out people, even if their opinions are benign.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> So literally not one single Trump supporter.


Please show me on this diagram where Daddy Trump hurt you, personally.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> So literally not one single Trump supporter.


Even if people think they're harmless Trump supporters the guy quite literally had the most disastrous policies and outward harm to people, not just in America but especially in the Middle East. The guy had more than twice the number of drone strikes Obama had in two terms, but Trump did it in *TWO YEARS.*

Adding to that, anyone who performatively supports Trump just wants attention for supporting a fascist. All the more reason why it's based to exclude these people from communities.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> But that is the fundamental end goal of your position. You're telling people that they should welcome people who hate them into their communities by having to "hear" people out. Even you realize there are exceptions that can and should be excluded. People do *not* have to be heard out, actually. There's no obligation whatsoever in any capacity to have to hear out people, even if their opinions are benign.


That's EXACTLY what you are saying, sir. 

You want straight cisgender folks who understand that there are only two genders to welcome folks like YOU who HATE US by having to hear you out when you say you are a woman, even though your penis proves that that's a lie. 

You want tolerance and acceptance that you are not willing to demonstrate to others, because you feel morally justified in being a bigot. 

I am still waiting for you to tell me what a woman is, sir. My good man. Brother. My fellow male.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> But that is the fundamental end goal of your position. You're telling people that they should welcome people who hate them into their communities by having to "hear" people out. Even you realize there are exceptions that can and should be excluded. People do *not* have to be heard out, actually. There's no obligation whatsoever in any capacity to have to hear out people, even if their opinions are benign.


I like the analogy that it's like a meal-swap. Everyone turns up with things they've made and you can agree to disagree on tons of topics- Should pineapple go on a pizza, what seasoning is best, how hot should a madras curry be and so on, but if someone comes to the swap-meet with a big tub of cold diarrhea (aka most of the US right with their backwards, imbecillic ideals) then they can and should be told to fuck off.

No good comes from tolerating intolerance, if you're not willing to live and let live I have a nice cold hole in the ground I'd like you to get in.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> I like the analogy that it's like a meal-swap. Everyone turns up with things they've made and you can agree to disagree on tons of topics- Should pineapple go on a pizza, what seasoning is best, how hot should a madras curry be and so on, but if someone comes to the swap-meet with a big tub of cold diarrhea (aka most of the US right with their backwards, imbecillic ideals) then they can and should be told to fuck off.
> 
> No good comes from tolerating intolerance, if you're not willing to live and let live I have a nice cold hole in the ground I'd like you to get in.


It's so cute that you want to threaten people now. 

A nice cold hole in ground that you'd like people who don't agree with you to get in? 

Are YOU going to put them in that hole?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> But that is the fundamental end goal of your position. You're telling people that they should welcome people who hate them into their communities by having to "hear" people out. Even you realize there are exceptions that can and should be excluded. People do *not* have to be heard out, actually. There's no obligation whatsoever in any capacity to have to hear out people, even if their opinions are benign.


What im saying is that both sides should be heard out and assholes who hate a group because they just dont like who they are shouldn't be heard out. ITS THAT SIMPLE

If you hate someone for being different from you in a way its just petty. you dont deserve to be heard out


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> I like the analogy that it's like a meal-swap. Everyone turns up with things they've made and you can agree to disagree on tons of topics- Should pineapple go on a pizza, what seasoning is best, how hot should a madras curry be and so on, but if someone comes to the swap-meet with a big tub of cold diarrhea (aka most of the US right with their backwards, imbecillic ideals) then they can and should be told to fuck off.
> 
> No good comes from tolerating intolerance, if you're not willing to live and let live I have a nice cold hole in the ground I'd like you to get in.


Here's some "live and let live for you". 

There are two genders. Only two. They cannot be changed. Ever. No surgery or chemicals can change XX to XY, or vice versa. 

So, live and let live. If you don't agree, keep on moving, buddy. Be tolerant and accepting. Stop being such a hateful, bigoted hypocrite.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> What im saying is that both sides should be heard out and assholes who hate a group because they just dont like who they are shouldn't be heard out. ITS THAT SIMPLE


But if those ideas lead to harm, should we listen to them? Because I can show you the demonstrable and documented harm by the status quo that the right is trying to preserve at best, and god forbid embolden at worst. Is the line drawn at "yelling slurs" or do we take the logical position of drawing it at "supporting positions that result in societal and institutional harm?" Because then a massive chunk of Trump's platform is going to have to be excluded.

You can't just take a position that all sides should be heard out when the two positions are "don't make life worse for people" and "make life as bad as possible for people."


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> If you hate someone for being different from you in a way its just petty. you dont deserve to be heard out


So you agree that most right-wing politicians with anti-LGBT/POC/women voting practices, and the incels that support them, should not be heard out. Now we're getting somewhere.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> So you agree that most right-wing politicians with anti-LGBT/POC/woman voting practices, and the incels that support them, should not be heard out. Now we're getting somewhere.


That's not at all what he said. The biggest bigots and hypocrites are bred and indoctrinated by the left. You feel ENTITLED to be able to speak to people like this when they disagree with you, but if someone bashed you as hard for being a silly Billy who thinks that gender is a construct and not physical science, you think you can go off on them with aplomb. 

Hypocrite. Bigot. Hater.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Here's some "live and let live for you".
> 
> There are two genders. Only two. They cannot be changed. Ever. No surgery or chemicals can change XX to XY, or vice versa.
> 
> So, live and let live. If you don't agree, keep on moving, buddy. Be tolerant and accepting. Stop being such a hateful, bigoted hypocrite.


You're thinking of sexes.  Gender is and always has been a social construct.  Not sure how we got on this topic in this thread though...is this actually about you wanting to express support for the Russian invasion?


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> So you agree that most right-wing politicians with anti-LGBT/POC/women voting practices, and the incels that support them, should not be heard out. Now we're getting somewhere.


I just wonder... why do you want people to accept your imagnary gender, when you couldn't accept what you were born as, in the first place? Doesn't it all start with YOU? 

Isn't that true for EVERYONE? 

Change and understanding and empathy starts with YOU. So, stop being so bigoted, and accept that it's okay for people to disagree with you without trying to demonize them. Come up with a better argument, and you won't need insults.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You're thinking of sexes.  Gender is and always has been a social construct.  Not sure how we got on this topic in this thread though...is this actually about you wanting to express support for the Russian invasion?


I couldn't possibly care less about Russia or Ukraine. The topic was already derailed the moment people needed to invoke Godwin's Law 2.0.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

You would probably get more replies, Draven, if you weren't so mad about trans people.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You're thinking of sexes.  Gender is and always has been a social construct.  Not sure how we got on this topic in this thread though...is this actually about you wanting to express support for the Russian invasion?


This is honestly a good point. We should probably re-rail the thread.

Slava Ukraini!


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> This is honestly a good point. We should probably re-rail the thread.
> 
> Slava Ukraini!


I suppose since we're on the topic of Ukraine again, does anyone else feel that the use of "Glory to Ukraine" is kind of messy? Like, I dunno, nation defending itself or not, what with the Azov Battalion I feel apprehensive about posting glory to any country given how heavily nationalist of a phrase it is.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You would probably get more replies, Draven, if you weren't so mad about trans people.


It's not the people. I've met a few "trans" folk who aren't like you, brother. They don't attack people who won't play along with their fantasies, because they understand that no one should ever be forced to participate in specific behavior, or to support it. 

Do you understand the difference between acceptance and tolerance? 

I TOLERATE you pretending to be a woman. You have that right. You can pretend to be whatever you want. But, I will never ACCEPT you as a woman, because you aren't one, and can never be one. That pesky Y chromosome, and all. 

I can tolerate your behavior, but I will not accept a lie. I will also not accept your abuse for you demanding my right to think as I will. If you had a better argument, you wouldn't need attacks and bigotry. 

Be more tolerant. I won't ask you to accept anything that conflicts with your moral code. Tolerance is a different story. 

It's exactly what you are asking for, but will not grant to others. Tolerate that there are people who won't ever call you ma'am, because you have a penis. No one said you had to accept that point of view. Just ignore it and move on. 

That's exactly what you want the other side to do. Show that you can do the same, and the whole world will be a better place.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

It's just generic transphobia. Put more effort in your rage-walls if you want them to be read.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I suppose since we're on the topic of Ukraine again, does anyone else feel that the use of "Glory to Ukraine" is kind of messy? Like, I dunno, nation defending itself or not, what with the Azov Battalion I feel apprehensive about posting glory to any country given how heavily nationalist of a phrase it is.


In general I'd absolutely agree but it's an easily repeatable phrase that does two things- Shows support to the Ukraini people and upsets anyone thick enough to be sucking putin's dick. If it weren't for the war I'd never use it as Ukraine definitely has a lot of internal issues to sort out but as long as Russia wants to swing it's (increasingly obviously) impotent dick around it makes for a fantastic slogan.

Plus the standard 'reply' is heroyam slava (glory to the heroes) which I think is very much warranted.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I suppose since we're on the topic of Ukraine again, does anyone else feel that the use of "Glory to Ukraine" is kind of messy? Like, I dunno, nation defending itself or not, what with the Azov Battalion I feel apprehensive about posting glory to any country given how heavily nationalist of a phrase it is.


It's walking the line of being overly-nationalistic for sure, but given the context I view it more as a finger in the eye of Russian imperialism/Putin than anything else.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's walking the line of being overly-nationalistic for sure, but given the context I view it more as a finger in the eye of Russian imperialism/Putin than anything else.


This is much more succinct than what I said xD



LainaGabranth said:


> It's just generic transphobia. Put more effort in your rage-walls if you want them to be read.


Lmao is that wee fud still going? I blocked them so if they've wasted any time replying in here I've certainly not read it!


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> In general I'd absolutely agree but it's an easily repeatable phrase that does two things- Shows support to the Ukraini people and upsets anyone thick enough to be sucking putin's dick. If it weren't for the war I'd never use it as Ukraine definitely has a lot of internal issues to sort out but as long as Russia wants to swing it's (increasingly obviously) impotent dick around it makes for a fantastic slogan.
> 
> Plus the standard 'reply' is heroyam slava (glory to the heroes) which I think is very much warranted.





Xzi said:


> It's walking the line of being overly-nationalistic for sure, but given the context I view it more as a finger in the eye of Russian imperialism/Putin than anything else.


Yeah, these are both fair positions as well. We've got confirmation that brass is reading online posts and shit so I'd imagine it probably sucks as a boot on the ground to have to read that the whole world is against an invasion you probably aren't even big on. There's undeniable utility in the phrasing itself, I'm still just apprehensive about calling a nation glorious and not its people.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

I think this thread broke my AI subsystem and prob fried somthing..... ima run a syscheck and try to understand how TF you all keep thinking that "Hearing out people who aren't assholes from both sides" is hateful....


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> Lmao is that wee fud still going? I blocked them so if they've wasted any time replying in here I've certainly not read it!


I don't block anyone unless they're a spammer. I just scroll past their posts and be really snide. Nothing makes right wingers more upset than a condescending woman.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> I think this thread broke my AI subsystem and prob fried somthing..... ima run a syscheck and try to understand how TF you all keep thinking that "Hearing out people who aren't assholes from both sides" is hateful....


I thought I explained it pretty well, that even if the person is harmless in intent and is just duped into supporting the positions, the person they're supporting result in net negative qualities of life as a whole even if on the surface their stances sound benign like "I want family values," or "I want our workforce protected," because both of these phrases have come to entail religiously sourced oppression of various sexualities and gender identities or outright xenophobia, respectively. No one said your position was hateful and I think you should quit trying to see it like that.


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Why aren't people hearing out those from the asshole side, I keep promising they're not assholes ;.;


That's effectively what you just said. Now haud yer wheesht if you've nothing on-topic to say. Fucking muppet.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I don't block anyone unless they're a spammer. I just scroll past their posts and be really snide. Nothing makes right wingers more upset than a condescending woman.


Exccept that you aren't a woman.


----------



## spoggi (Sep 27, 2022)

Good god, glad i made some popcorn yesterday


----------



## Xzi (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> I think this thread broke my AI subsystem and prob fried somthing..... ima run a syscheck and try to understand how TF you all keep thinking that "Hearing out people who aren't assholes from both sides" is hateful....


It's pretty simple: denying someone the right to their own identity is being an asshole.  Neo Draven is trying to dehumanize trans individuals, which goes well beyond simply "having an opinion" on the topic.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

You would think a guy who touts himself as an "end boss" of anything would have better retorts than boring redditor shit.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's pretty simple: denying someone the right to their own identity is being an asshole.  Neo Draven is trying to dehumanize trans individuals, which goes well beyond simply "having an opinion" on the topic.


No. I am demanding my own right to refuse to play along with a lie. 

Here's how it should go. 

Laina comes walking down the street. Sees me. 

"Hey! I am a woman."

I respond, "No. You aren't". 

He keeps on walking his way. I keep walking mine. Neither of us harms the other, and goes about our business as usual. 

That is what tolerance is. 

Do you understand?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I thought I explained it pretty well, that even if the person is harmless in intent and is just duped into supporting the positions, the person they're supporting result in net negative qualities of life as a whole even if on the surface their stances sound benign like "I want family values," or "I want our workforce protected," because both of these phrases have come to entail religiously sourced oppression of various sexualities and gender identities or outright xenophobia, respectively. No one said your position was hateful and I think you should quit trying to see it like that.


Ok, now i understand you, thanks.


DoctorBagPhD said:


> That's effectively what you just said. Now haud yer wheesht if you've nothing on-topic to say. Fucking muppet.


Ok, guess i striked a nerve and offended you. Oh well! People get offended too much for my views

Now, Seems like russia is not having a good time huh


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's pretty simple: denying someone the right to their own identity is being an asshole.  Neo Draven is trying to dehumanize trans individuals, which goes well beyond simply "having an opinion" on the topic.


Where in any of this did I say that Laina and his other T folk aren't human? He's still human. He still has rights. I won't harm him. 

I just don't want to play along with his fantasy. How is that wrong?


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You would think a guy who touts himself as an "end boss" of anything would have better retorts than boring redditor shit.


End boss of the pizza rolls in their parents' basement, maybe.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Ok, now i understand you, thanks.


I hope that clears it up more, it's not that I think your position is inherently hateful, it's that you shouldn't be obligated to hear out people who support positions that criminalize or otherwise oppress your existence. It's not a matter of disagreement on things like trans issues for example, it's a matter of the right just making shit up and trying to mangle language and societal standards around their west-centric view of things. Unfortunately for them however, their input is not valuable on the topic.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> End boss of the pizza rolls in their parents' basement, maybe.


No its the mass amount of pizza hut boxes. THATS THE BOSS


----------



## DoctorBagPhD (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Ok, guess i striked a nerve and offended you. Oh well! People get offended too much for my views


Taking the piss out of you doesn't mean I'm offended, friend.



sombrerosonic said:


> Now, Seems like russia is not having a good time huh


That we can agree on. Did you see the conscript interview that was posted yesterday, where he got to call his parents? They were distraught to find out he'd been sent to Ukraine. Like... Where the fuck did you think he was gonna go?


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You would think a guy who touts himself as an "end boss" of anything would have better retorts than boring redditor shit.


Sir, I have already been banned for speaking the truth. This site is leaning harder and harder to the left every day. There are specific mods who have a hate boner for me, who protect YOU and allow YOU to be abusive and bigoted, because they are biased. 

It wasn't like this before the wokeness started happening, and being a bigot against anyone who isn't aligned with the 56 gender ideology was openly encouraged and rewarded.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> End boss of the pizza rolls in their parents' basement, maybe.


My pronouns are "Daddy" and "God".

Learn them. Absorb them. Do not disrespect them, or you are being a phobe... of something, or other.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> Taking the piss out of you doesn't mean I'm offended, friend.
> 
> 
> That we can agree on. Did you see the conscript interview that was posted yesterday, where he got to call his parents? They were distraught to find out he'd been sent to Ukraine. Like... Where the fuck did you think he was gonna go?


Bury everyone in pizza boxes.... idk it seems like somthing else is happening in the back



Neo Draven said:


> My pronouns are "Daddy" and "God".
> 
> Learn them. Absorb them. Do not disrespect them, or you are being a phobe... of something, or other.


Ok Daddy


----------



## Xzi (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> No. I am demanding my own right to refuse to play along with a lie.
> 
> Here's how it should go.
> 
> ...


Tolerance is a two-way street.  If LainaGabranth can tolerate your existence as a bigoted dickweed, you should be able to tolerate her existence as a woman.  Otherwise, you're just being passive-aggressive and supporting an undercurrent of violence against trans people.


----------



## mr_switch (Sep 27, 2022)

Did Russian bots infiltrated this forum too?


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Tolerance is a two-way street.  If LainaGabranth can tolerate your existence as a bigoted dickweed, you should be able to tolerate her existence as a woman.  Otherwise, you're just being passive-aggressive and supporting an undercurrent of violence against trans people.


I do not ACCEPT his existence as a man who thinks he is a woman. Because that is a lie. I can tolerate behavior. I cannot accept a lie as the truth. He is NOT a woman, he can never BE a woman, and that isn't something that feelings can change. 

You are asking me to accept a lie. I will not do that, under any circumstance. 

He can live his life as a woman if he pleases. I won't harm him in any way, or try to stop him. I just won't ever call him a woman, or use his preferred pronouns. 

That's TOLERANCE. Not ACCEPTANCE. 

You're smarter than this, man. We go way back. You even gave me a Steam key once. 

Sigh...


----------



## lokomelo (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I have already been banned for speaking the truth.


Oh god!!! Please help this guy!!! He is being victim of a conspiracy!!!

GBATemp staff wake up every morning and start plotting how to ban him, please someone send help!!!


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

mr_switch said:


> Did Russian bots infiltrated this forum too?


Mmayybe


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> What im saying is that both sides should be heard out and assholes who hate a group because they just dont like who they are shouldn't be heard out. ITS THAT SIMPLE


You can't both sides nazi's. You can't both sides genocide. You can't both side it because it's indefensable.

You cannot both sides homosexuality. You cannot both sides women rights. You cannot both sides Gender. Because treating as those things either don't exist, shouldn't exist, or making their life hell because of dogma like "ALL LGBTQ ARE PEDOPHILES!"
Is just wrong.
(Reminds me of my mom's rehetroic of saying that no Mexican wipes their ass. It's just objectively wrong to *asume* that a entirely separate demographic all is or has a bad quality without substantial proof to back it up)
Or how about @XDel
Who tried to say that  homosexuality is the same as fucking beastality.

There's a point where you cannot both side an issue, as your just straight up wrong no discussion. Opening that can of worms just leads some of the shittiest people to open up the can and spew hateful shit towards people.


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

DoctorBagPhD said:


> If Neanderthal Draven's anything to go by they've been here a while


So far, you have personally attacked every single person here who disageed with you. You called Sombrero, over there, a fucking muppet. You have dehumanized me and reduced me to a sub-species of homo sapiens.

But Trump supporters and conservatives are the angry ones?

I am a good hugger, if you need a good cry. 

It lets the hurt out.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Sir, I have already been banned for speaking the truth. This site is leaning harder and harder to the left every day.


Do you think that just maybe people lean more and more left leaning because the far right wing party has no redeemable polices? And that instead of idk. Trying to force those polices on people, that they should perhaps change their views on them? Abortion would be a great start. Let people choose again. Thanks


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> You can't both sides nazi's. You can't both sides genocide. You can't both side it because it's indefensable.
> 
> You cannot both sides homosexuality. You cannot both sides women rights. You cannot both sides Gender. Because treating as those things either don't exist, shouldn't exist, or making their life hell because of dogma like "ALL LGBTQ ARE PEDOPHILES!"
> (Reminds me of my mom's rehetroic of saying that no Mexican wipes their ass. It's just objectively wrong to *asume* that a entirely separate demographic all is or has a bad quality without substantial proof to back it up)
> ...


huh ok, your link to the thread on your siggy is unclickable just to let you know


----------



## Xzi (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> I do not ACCEPT his existence as a man who thinks he is a woman. Because that is a lie. I can tolerate behavior. I cannot accept a lie as the truth. He is NOT a woman, he can never BE a woman, and that isn't something that feelings can change.
> 
> You are asking me to accept a lie. I will not do that, under any circumstance.
> 
> ...


Acceptance can be relegated to an internal conversation with yourself, but tolerance requires you be outwardly indifferent at the very least.  And indifference would mean being okay with a person's gender identity, as that's solely a social construct.  It doesn't harm you or have to affect your own opinions/beliefs in any way, shape or form.

Continuing to be bigoted and hateful toward any group is a choice you're deliberately making.  So don't be surprised when you largely receive nothing but hatred and intolerance toward you or your opinions/beliefs in return.


----------



## Nothereed (Sep 27, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> huh ok, your link to the thread on your siggy is unclickable just to let you know


Rip. I'll have to go fix it again. I may throw it to the top


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> This site is leaning harder and harder to the left every day.


Factually wrong but funny to think about!


----------



## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Do you think that just maybe people lean more and more left leaning because the far right wing party has no redeemable polices? And that instead of idk. Trying to force those polices on people, that they should perhaps change their views on them? Abortion would be a great start. Let people choose again. Thanks


Honestly, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am a South Park Libertarian. I believe in liberty for all people, in all things, WITH the understanding that we live in society, and if your actions harm another person, you deserve to receive a punishment deemed fair by your peers. If your actions benefit someone else, society might praise and reward you. 

No one harms anyone else, we help when we can but are not compelled to do anything beyond make sure that we stay alive and are able to provide for our families and common welfare. 

I am not a bigot, a racist or any kind of phobe. I simply don't CARE until you try to force me into a specific way of thinking, or try to dictate my behavior or my language. I have liberty and so do you. 

You do you, I'll do me, and if we disagree, there's the other side of the street.


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## CraddaPoosta (Sep 27, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Acceptance can be relegated to an internal conversation with yourself, but tolerance requires you be outwardly indifferent at the very least.  And indifference would mean being okay with a person's gender identity, as that's solely a social construct.  It doesn't harm you or have to affect your own opinions/beliefs in any way, shape or form.
> 
> Continuing to be bigoted and hateful toward any group is a choice you're deliberately making.  So don't be surprised when you largely receive nothing but hatred and intolerance toward you or your opinions/beliefs in return.


He is not a woman. Saying he is a woman is a lie.

I refuse to lie.

What is wrong with that? 

I AM indifferent to his fantasy. It only becomes a problem when he INSISTS that I call him a woman, or to refer to him as such. 

THAT is something that demands that I change my behavior, not my way of thinking. 

And I say no. No. No. I have that right. 

He can be indifferent to my refusal to call him a woman, and keep on rolling, instead of trying to browbeat me, insult me, degrade me, attack me and force me to actually SAY or DO something that aligns with his fantasy. 

I hope you understand my point.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 27, 2022)

Someone who's very confident in their transphobia wouldn't need to turn every thread into their soapbox about how victimized they feel being told to quit being transphobic.


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## linuxares (Sep 27, 2022)

Can you people stop turning every f-ing thread into a trans vs anti-trans... it's getting ridiculous.
I lock this thread...

Please @Taleweaver start a new thread if you wish


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