# The Pirate Support Thread



## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

So, not too long ago, I decided to stop pirating games, at least as much as I could. In addition to it being a hassle I've grown tired of dealing with, it never settled well with my conscience (at least to pirate games still being produced and sold new). That said, the urge is a bit strong at times.

This thread is for anyone dealing with piracy, basically. People who do it, who used to do it, who do it but would like to stop, who do it out of ridiculous prices and unavailability in their country. Vent, rant, share your personal "rules," share your justifications for why it is/isn't wrong, ask for advice on how to stop. Whatever it is, feel free to share it here.

Of course, the typical GBAtemp rules still apply here (no ROMs, mentioning of warez sites, etc), and please PLEASE try not to turn this into a flame war over who is and isn't a horrible person for their piracy stance. You're allowed to civilly disagree and discuss, but don't devolve into the typical stuff that you know all flame wars are made of.


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## Eerpow (Oct 30, 2012)

I just pirate when I can't afford something and buy when there's something I like or want to support. Really, game companies aren't losing a cent with me, if pirating wasn't an option I wouldn't have bought the games anyway. For example there's a bunch of 3DS games I never will have the chance to try out and it's not like I can afford them either with all the upcoming software I'm planning to buy. Another example is Retro City Rampage on Wii, even if it's easier for me to pirate it I'm still going to buy the game to show some support.

I don't have a clue what option to pick in the poll... I'll go with: I currently pirate and see no problems with it.


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## DaggerV (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm between five and seven. All in all, I see no problem with piracy, most of the attacks against it are bullshit, just as a lot of the defenses for it. There was a time I pirated because I was poor. Nowadays, it's either so I can demo, circumvent retarded as fucking hell DRMs, or find old games.


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## Lanlan (Oct 30, 2012)

I used to pirate before I had a job. Now I just buy games during Steam sales. I still end up with an abundance of games I barely play, so it's basically the same.


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## suppow (Oct 30, 2012)

jolly roger we meet once again. seeking reassurance i see?

are you even putting off try-before-you-buy?


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## FireGrey (Oct 30, 2012)

I used to always pirate on whatever I could, but now that I have a new Gaming PC I haven't pirated a single thing, not even windows.
But I still have the Wii Games that I have pirated and have no problem with pirating them.


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## TheDreamLord (Oct 30, 2012)

Mainly pirate games from companies I don't like, i.e. EA games, and games like Left 4 Dead 2 or HL2 I'd pirate, then buy when I have money.


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## suppow (Oct 30, 2012)

TheDreamLord said:


> Mainly pirate games from companies I don't like, i.e. EA games, and games like Left 4 Dead 2 or HL2 I'd pirate, then buy when I have money.


 
lol, and that's what i like to call _gaming terrorism_, just kidding =P


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## Nah3DS (Oct 30, 2012)

I have all the no-intro sets


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## emigre (Oct 30, 2012)

I thought this thread would be a support group regarding plundering the seven seas.


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## AlanJohn (Oct 30, 2012)

I pirate games all day, everyday.


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## Wizerzak (Oct 30, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> I just pirate when I can't afford something and buy when there's something I like or want to support. Really, game companies aren't losing a cent with me, if pirating wasn't an option I wouldn't have bought the games anyway. For example there's a bunch of 3DS games I never will have the chance to try out and it's not like I can afford them either with all the upcoming software I'm planning to buy. Another example is Retro City Rampage on Wii, even if it's easier for me to pirate it I'm still going to buy the game to show some support.
> 
> I don't have a clue what option to pick in the poll... I'll go with: I currently pirate and see no problems with it.


Exactly the same with me. My exceptions are:

Indie games (sometimes I'll pirate to see whether I like them first)
Valve games, they're just too much of an awesome company to pirate from. (Though as a result I still haven't played ep 2).


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## arogance1 (Oct 30, 2012)

I have a young child, and my wife is out of work.
My wage barely covers the monthly bills / food etc, and I've cut back on just about everything that maes life enjoyable.
If I didn't pirate games, I still wouldn't be buying them, so why should I miss out on playing the latest Pokemon games or new Wii games, although both DS and Wii are dying out quickly.
I currently only use the Wii to play films / TV shows through, because I wouldn't see them any other way.

I would love to play the New Super Mario Bros 2, and Professor Layton games, but I never will


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## Satangel (Oct 30, 2012)

I pirate everything, be it movies, series, documentaries, games (retro, PC, EVERYTHING), books, comic books, ....
Really, it must have been since Harry Potter 7 came out since I last bought something legally. Else I just pirate so much.
It's fun, it's addictive, it's fast.....


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## EyeZ (Oct 30, 2012)

I only pirate DS games, i purchase everything else.

I'm not actually sure why i pirate the DS games, i'm lucky to be in a position where i can afford to pay for them.

I've given these console suppliers enough of my money in the past to have my perk with the DS games.


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## Forstride (Oct 30, 2012)

I used to pirate games when I couldn't afford them, but now I can buy most games I want.  It's a lot nicer to have physical copies of games rather than a simple file I downloaded in 2 minutes.


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## GammaGeorgeX (Oct 30, 2012)

A little bit the 7th, but mainly the 5th because it is not really stealing, but _copying_, which is different. Nothing in life is even unique, you just make it out of what already exists.


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## pasc (Oct 30, 2012)

Mostly stopped due to 3DS. 

However old systems even require you to, due to enourmous Ebay prices.


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## DCG (Oct 30, 2012)

I download stuf now and then.
Old games, like the LBA 2 (disk is showing cracks, so I'm a tad scared to use it...) and other memorabilia (older movies, or hard to find stuff (or just way way to expensive for my liking))


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Piracy is for losers. If you're in a position where you can't afford games (or records or books or whatever) and you resort to piracy, you suck. Maybe you should use the time you spend playing pirated video games to think of ways to improve your life, or at the very least your wage. Do you NEED that PS3 game? Do you NEED that episode? Do you NEED that album? Of course not. They might be nice extras that make you feel good for a minute but in the end you could have spent the time you spent playing the game doing something more useful which would actually allow you to spend more time playing games in the future (and would allow you to pay for said games).

If you have the money to afford everything you want but still resort to piracy, you're a complete twat.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

GammaGeorgeX said:


> A little bit the 7th, but mainly the 5th because it is not really stealing, but _copying_, which is different. Nothing in life is even unique, you just make it out of what already exists.


Depends how you define 'unique'. Something can be 'unique' because there is nothing even remotely like it, or it can be 'unique' because it is a unique combination of things that already exist, e.g., if I were to make a hybrid table/towel, it would (probably) be unique in the sense that no one has made a hybrid table/towel before, but it would not be unique in the sense that it is merely a combination of a table and a towel.


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## VashTS (Oct 30, 2012)

so if i pirate im a twat because i did not pay for something and you did pay for it?

internet logic is weird sometimes.

lets turn it around...if someone gave me a shitty car (that's what you're considering piracy is, someone is giving something, that is sold for money, out for free) and you paid for the same shitty car from a dealer, that makes me a twat?! lol.

honestly it depends on what you call piracy. the act of buying something, copying it, removing copy protections and redistributing is the true definition of piracy. downloading something off the nets is not piracy in its true form, its called leeching


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

VashTS said:


> lets turn it around...if someone gave me a shitty car (that's what you're considering piracy is, someone is giving something, that is sold for money, out for free) and you paid for the same shitty car from a dealer, that makes me a twat?! lol.


What kind of a retarded example is that?

The person who gave you the shitty car most likely paid for it.
Only one person gets the shitty car, and the person who gave the car to you doesn't get to keep it.
Why would you accept a shitty car, let alone buy it?


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## BORTZ (Oct 30, 2012)

I pirate. Only the easy stuff haha. Like DS, GBA, and other things that can be emulated easily (NES, SNES, SEGA, etc). 

Ive downloaded a few game for the wii, but its way easier to buy, rent, or borrow from a friend and just rip them to my drive. 

I guess i pirate cause of then high i get from modding a console or handheld and just watching things "work". I end up hording alot of games that ill never play and it kinda makes me sad. So right now im going back and playing some of my favorites before moving on to some new ones.


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## Eerpow (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Piracy is for losers. If you're in a position where you can't afford games (or records or books or whatever) and you resort to piracy, you suck. Maybe you should use the time you spend playing pirated video games to think of ways to improve your life, or at the very least your wage. Do you NEED that PS3 game? Do you NEED that episode? Do you NEED that album? Of course not. They might be nice extras that make you feel good for a minute but in the end you could have spent the time you spent playing the game doing something more useful which would actually allow you to spend more time playing games in the future (and would allow you to pay for said games).
> 
> If you have the money to afford everything you want but still resort to piracy, you're a complete twat.


 
I'm a loser for having a poor family? It's extremely hard to find a job here and it's not like I have time either between school and being with my family.
I don't have a dad so there's a lot of things I have to help out with at home.
I'm a uni student and while I do buy stuff I also pirate. Entertainment isn't cheap and I have other priorities than spending money on games, like getting a drivers license and a car for example. The driver licenses here are insanely expensive.

And yes, I do WANT those games, that album whatever. I already have somewhere to live and food on my table. It's not like I can do much more than what I'm already doing. Life just isn't that simple, work opportunities in Sweden are at an all time low and not only that but I prefer to continue studying full time rather than having to work at the same time. I'm only 19 and there's only so much I can do.
Do something else! you might say.
Well I play more guitar than I play games nowadays but it's nice to be able to do both. I'm more than happy that I can have some variety in my spare time instead of being stuck with the same games I already played and the same movies I already watched. Those aren't necessities I agree, but they are sure nice things to have.


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

I pirate and I honestly don't see it affecting me one bit. Games in AUS cost way to much anyway and its not the game's fault its the retailer's but they will never stop overcharging and drop their prices to a reasonable one.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

Guys, let's cool down a bit. Like I said, feel free to share your opinions of piracy (regardless of what they are), but let's try to refrain from insulting each other or calling each other twats and the like. You can still say piracy is a terrible thing and say there's no excuse if you wish, without resorting to name-calling. 


suppow said:


> are you even putting off try-before-you-buy?


Who, me? Honestly, I'm not sure at this point. For the past month, I haven't pirated really, mostly since I've had so many legitimate games to play. Also, I got tired of dealing with piracy. I'm tired of dealing with update patches and battery drain on the SuperCard DSTwo, And I'm tired of the incompatibilities and slowdown of using emulators for legacy consoles and handhelds. And though there's no real "disadvantage" to pirating WiiWare and VC for the Wii, if I'm going to cut the rest of my piracy, might as well cut that too and stay clean, on principle. You know what I mean?

Anyway, I'm definitely not pirating DS or WiiWare anymore (the only current-gen games that I really ever pirated), but I'm not sure about legacy consoles. On one hand, I don't see how I'm hurting anyone if the original company isn't making money since they're not selling them anymore. That said, companies like Nintendo do sell many games as virtual console, which I never owned even in their original form. I'm thinking that my personal rule will be that if I own at least one "license" to a game, then I'm fine with emulating it on other mediums. Id est, if I own a copy of Super Metroid for either the SNES or Wii VC, then I see no problem with emulating it for free on PC or smartphone (assuming that I'm being honest and only keeping the legitimate copy to myself).

Lately I've actually started buying DS games and NES and GB favorites on the 3DS eShop. It's nice to have the stability of a Nintendo-licensed emulator along with some of the benefits of unlicensed ones, like save states. And those save states are limited, so you're less tempted to cheat (another thing I disliked with pirating). And in all honesty, it just feels GOOD to know that I have the games legally.

As for your question about try-before-you-buy... well, yeah, sure. I'm going to start a retro collection of NES and SNES games, and I'll definitely be testing games out via emulator for about 20 minutes to see if I really like them (especially since SNES games can be so expensive!). Same with DS games and WiiWare. But that's about it.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> I'm a loser for having a poor family? It's extremely hard to find a job here and it's not like I have time either between school and being with my family.


I didn't say you're a loser if you're poor, I said you're a loser if you pirate (for any reason), learn to read.



Eerpow said:


> And yes, I do WANT those games, that album whatever.


I said 'NEED', not 'WANT'.



Eerpow said:


> I already have somewhere to live and food on my table. It's not like I can do much more than what I'm already doing. Life just isn't that simple, work opportunities in Sweden are at an all time low and not only that but *I prefer to continue studying full time* rather than having to work at the same time. I'm only 19 and there's only so much I can do.


Note how this contradicts your earlier statement of WANTing those games, that album, etc.

Simply because work opportunities are at a low doesn't mean you can't make a little effort to get a job at your local grocery. If you don't want to work (yet), that's fine, but you shouldn't feel entitled to own every game/album for no cost whatsoever.



Eerpow said:


> Those aren't necessities I agree, but they are sure nice things to have.


So, simply because they are nice things to have makes it okay to not pay for them?


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## Narayan (Oct 30, 2012)

6 for me. I can't buy some games, and I can pirate. 

GUISE we have an elitist here.


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## Arm73 (Oct 30, 2012)

Well, I pirate because....I can.
Honestly,once you got the knowledge and the know-how-to, it's not something that you can ignore.

Why should I buy Bioshock when I know exactly how to get it for free ? And why should I ? Throw more money at an hobby that I spent already a fortune on during the years.
Sure, I feel a little bad about it, especially when pirating games from small, talented developers that are always on the verge of failing, but like I said, it's not something I can ignore.

I fuel the industry anyway, by buying consoles, PCs, controllers, cases, gaming mousses, and even sitting trough advertising when watching game reviews and articles.
Now I'm glad the 3DS ( and the Wii U for that matter ) isn't hacked yet, because I have to buy the occasional games I really enjoy.
I don't see any problem with that either, if I cannot afford it new, I'll wait a few months and get is second hand or discounted.
Everything is possible.

But let's say I'm looking for Fifa 13 for the Wii.....why even bother to go chase down a copy at the local store, when with my 25 Mbps connection I can download it, install it on my external WD and play it on my hacked Wii within half an hour ?
Like I said, it's not my fault things got that easy.

When the day comes that piracy will be annihilated, or made it very difficult or impossible , I'll find a way to afford my games, but until then.....would you pay for an Hot Dog if you can get one for free around the corner ?


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## emigre (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> . Also, I got tired of dealing with piracy. I'm tired of dealing with update patches and battery drain on the SuperCard DSTwo, And I'm tired of the incompatibilities and slowdown of using emulators for legacy consoles and handhelds. And though there's no real "disadvantage" to pirating WiiWare and VC for the Wii, if I'm going to cut the rest of my piracy, might as well cut that too and stay clean, on principle. You know what I mean?


 
Hmph casual weak hearted pirate.


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> I didn't say you're a loser if you're poor, I said you're a loser if you pirate (for any reason), learn to read.


So since you said it, it must be true?

Get off your high horse and see that normal everyday good people pirate stuff, its not like they're going out and murdering people.


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## lokomelo (Oct 30, 2012)

Piracy is wrong in most cases (new games for example). But it is a minor sin, it will not make people suffer, It will not keep the devs always for their living (as many say). It will reduce profit for huge companies, and may discourage great invest in putting money on that kind of company, and that's all. I dont see any problem on that for the present or future of gaming.

Beside that, why should I send money away from my wallet to give to richer people? (yes, I like Robin Hood )


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

emigre said:


> Hmph casual weak hearted pirate.


Oh, emigre. Never change!


lokomelo said:


> why should I send money away from my wallet to give to richer people? (yes, I like Robin Hood )


For the sake of playing devil's advocate here, often the only reason they got rich in the first place is because most people DIDN'T think that way.


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## Eerpow (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> I didn't say you're a loser if you're poor, I said you're a loser if you pirate (for any reason), learn to read.
> 
> 
> I said 'NEED', not 'WANT'.
> ...


 
And I pirate because I'm poor, see how those things are related? That's why I assumed that I'm a loser too.
I wrote WANT because I agree that it isn't something I need as I explained in my post. And no I didn't contradict anything, I said that even if work and time for work was available I would still choose to study full time. And really it isn't as simple as going to the grocery store asking if there's something I can help them with. Work hours would coincide with school hours and I don't even have a fucking car to get anywhere yet. It really is that horrible when it comes to work opportunities, I tried last summer to find something without luck. Hence why I'm partially pirating.

And no I don't feel entitled to own that kind of entertainment, but I'm able to and really why shouldn't I take advantage? No one is losing anything, I already buy things I can afford anyway.
I'm just saying that I'm not agreeing with you that all pirates are egocentric losers.(I really don't think any kind of pirate is that but that's besides the point)
Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.


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## DCG (Oct 30, 2012)

@Nathan.

1: plz use the bloody edit button.....
2: maybe he'd like to spend some of the free time he has with games (pirated or not), and study full time ( so he has more time to study, thus increasing his chances of graduating).
when he gets a (well paid ) job, he will earn enough money to buy 3 coppies of every game (and the morgage, food etc.).


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Just Another Gam said:


> So since you said it, it must be true?
> 
> Get off your high horse and see that normal everyday good people pirate stuff, its not like they're going out and murdering people.


They are keeping people from the money that rightfully belongs to them for the work they put into the game/album/movie/book they created. For huge record labels (etc) this isn't a (huge) problem, but for the smaller ones - and for the artists - this is a problem. How are they supposed to earn money when you don't pay for their work?


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> For the sake of playing devil's advocate here, often the only reason they got rich in the first place is because most people DIDN'T think that way.


That and piracy often doesn't affect any industry that much really, it might mean a little bit of drop in profits but overall they still make a lot of money regardless.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 30, 2012)

I pirate with pride.


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> They are keeping people from the money that rightfully belongs to them for the work they put into the game/album/movie/book they created. For huge record labels (etc) this isn't a (huge) problem, but for the smaller ones - and for the artists - this is a problem. How are they supposed to earn money when you don't pay for their work?


Piracy doesn't affect any industry as much as the public perception come to assume and alot of indie games are priced reasonably which is why I would be happy to buy them so I don't think those smaller artists need to worry but its when devs/artists or whatever seem to think they can slap on any price tag they want and get away with it then makes people rather pirate then buy the product.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> And I pirate because I'm poor, see how those things are related? That's why I assumed that I'm a loser too.
> I wrote WANT because I agree that it isn't something I need as I explained in my post. And no I didn't contradict anything, I said that even if work and time for work was available I would still choose to study full time.


But you aren't studying full-time, you're playing games.



Eerpow said:


> And really it isn't as simple as going to the grocery store asking if there's something I can help them with. Work hours would coincide with school hours and I don't even have a fucking car to get anywhere yet. It really is that horrible when it comes to work opportunities, I tried last summer to find something without luck. Hence why I'm partially pirating.


I'm not saying you should get a job during the week, that's ridiculous. A Saturday job where you do the dishes at a local restaurant (or do whatever at a grocery store) and get paid €8-10 per hour goes a long way. You don't need a car, a bicycle will do fine (unless you live on one side of a huge city and need to get to the other side).



Eerpow said:


> And no I don't feel entitled to own that kind of entertainment, but I'm able to and really why shouldn't I take advantage? No one is losing anything, I already buy things I can afford anyway.
> I'm just saying that I'm not agreeing with you that all pirates are egocentric losers.(I really don't think any kind of pirate is that but that's besides the point)
> Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.


The people who made the content you are pirating aren't losing income? Okay.


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## the_randomizer (Oct 30, 2012)

pasc said:


> Mostly stopped due to 3DS.
> 
> However old systems even require you to, due to enourmous Ebay prices.





pasc said:


> Mostly stopped due to 3DS.
> 
> You and me both, well, except the 3DS part, but as for the older systems, I confess that I have *ahem* more Snes games than I should, but I mostly blame the Virtual Console, or rather, the lack of the games I really wanted to purchase at a reasonable price.  It's actually the main reason I hacked my Wii back when it was known as the Twilight Princess hack, mostly because it took them a millennium to add Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6 (among others) to the VC roster, not to mention refusal to add Earthbound (the real offender for copyright "violations").  The prices on eBay are way to exorbitant to justify their purchase, and why should I give someone who charges >$100 the money for used copy of Chrono Trigger that has a damaged label and no longer has a working SRAM battery?  In the case of games that are not on the VC, no one but second-hand sellers generate revenue.
> 
> Newer games (i.e anything past the 16-bit era), I don't pirate, especially PC games, but I have patches for Ubisoft games that require a constant internet connection (seeing as my current ISP is slow) but I do legally own the games in question.  I see nothing immoral about removing DRM from a game you legally own, but that's just me.  Movies? I don't pirate those either, I used to a long time ago, but I see no point in doing so.


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## DCG (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> but for the smaller ones - and for the artists - this is a problem. How are they supposed to earn money when you don't pay for their work?


 
Notice how new musicians (god darned not working autocorect) are putting their stuff on the web for zipp and make money from concerts :/
Example:
The sales of dance music albums in NL have decreased by 70%.
The sales of tickets to said concerts have increased by 70%
(it was in the news)

Game developers are a different breed.
But would you pirate all the indie games?
No. caus you know it when you see one you like (and then you will pay for it)

Edit.
WHAHAHA.
You do know he's from sweden, right?
Some places are way more remote than germany and could even be dangerous to travel trough without a car...


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> But you aren't studying full-time, you're playing games.


Dude really?


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## emigre (Oct 30, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> I pirate with pride.


 
We need a pirate pride parade.


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## the_randomizer (Oct 30, 2012)

Crap, can't edit post, this is what I meant to say in response to pasc,

You and me both, well, except the 3DS part, but as for the older systems, I confess that I have *ahem* more Snes games than I should, but I mostly blame the Virtual Console, or rather, the lack of the games I really wanted to purchase at a reasonable price. It's actually the main reason I hacked my Wii back when it was known as the Twilight Princess hack, mostly because it took them a millennium to add Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6 (among others) to the VC roster, not to mention refusal to add Earthbound (the real offender for copyright "violations"). The prices on eBay are way to exorbitant to justify their purchase, and why should I give someone who charges >$100 the money for used copy of Chrono Trigger that has a damaged label and no longer has a working SRAM battery? In the case of games that are not on the VC, no one but second-hand sellers generate revenue. 

Newer games (i.e anything past the 16-bit era), I don't pirate, especially PC games, but I have patches for Ubisoft games that require a constant internet connection (seeing as my current ISP is slow) but I do legally own the games in question. I see nothing immoral about removing DRM from a game you legally own, but that's just me. Movies? I don't pirate those either, I used to a long time ago, but I see no point in doing so.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Piracy doesn't affect any industry as much as the public perception come to assume and alot of indie games are priced reasonably which is why I would be happy to buy them so I don't think those smaller artists need to worry but its when devs/artists or whatever seem to think they can slap on any price tag they want and get away with it then makes people rather pirate then buy the product.


'The public perception' is something pirates make up so they don't feel bad about what they're doing.

If you don't want to support an artist or developer because you think they steeply overcharge for their products, just don't get the product! Don't buy it, but don't pirate it either!


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> But you aren't studying full-time, you're playing games.


I think you need to re-evaluate your definition of "full-time studying." That would be like saying I don't work full time because "I'm playing games," even though I'm working more than 40 hours a week.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

DCG said:


> Notice how new musicians (god darned not working autocorect) are putting their stuff on the web for zipp and make money from concerts :/
> Example:
> The sales of dance music albums in NL have decreased by 70%.
> The sales of tickets to said concerts have increased by 70%
> ...


For popular artists this isn't a problem because they earn enough money anyway through various sources. Less popular artists CAN NOT survive (by survive, I mean, continue doing what they do) without the income generated by sales of their albums on Bandcamp or similar.

Holy fuck, you can't tell the Belgian flag from the German one?


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> 'The public perception' is something pirates make up so they don't feel bad about what they're doing.
> 
> If you don't want to support an artist or developer because you think they steeply overcharge for their products, just don't get the product! Don't buy it, but don't pirate it either!


Lol, this is hilarious. Companies want to profit and when hey put out the stats on how piracy affects them its always exaggerated to make it look like its a big problem when in reality it isn't but I doubt anyone would be that stupid to believe that.

And I should listen to that instruction because? Really like I said earlier get off your high horse and expect that by screaming this that people will listen. If people want to overcharge then its their own fault if they profit less because people prefer to pirate it.


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## DCG (Oct 30, 2012)

:/
I just look at the coulors when I quick read something.

(getting tired of you trolling around....)


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Lol, this is hilarious. Companies want to profit and when hey put out the stats on how piracy affects them its always exaggerated to make it look like its a big problem when in reality it isn't but I doubt anyone would be that stupid to believe that.
> 
> And I should listen to that instruction because? Really like I said earlier get off your high horse and expect that by screaming this that people will listen. If people want to overcharge then its their own fault if they profit less because people prefer to pirate it.


Companies putting out stats on piracy isn't 'the public perception', it's 'the companies' perception'.

Do you not understand that if no one buys or even pirates an artist's overpriced content, perhaps the artist might realise the content is overpriced and will charge less for future releases? By pirating his content you are sending a message, "I like your content but I'm a cunt that doesn't want to pay for it" [in the artist's perception].


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## BORTZ (Oct 30, 2012)

I think its kinda fun to pirate too. I mean, look at all the games i have suddenly


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Do you not understand that if no one buys or even pirates an artist's overpriced content, perhaps the artist might realise the content is overpriced and will charge less for future releases? By pirating his content you are sending a message, "I like your content but I'm a cunt that doesn't want to pay for it" [in the artist's perception].


Um... no you don't. By pirating, you're sending the message that "this isn't worth paying that price, to me," and the artist likely would be motivated to lower the price or perhaps offer higher quality content. And who knows, maybe they'll loosen their DRM grip, if they have one.

I'm not saying I think it's right, because I don't. But piracy DEFINITELY doesn't send the message that you think it does.


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## Treeko (Oct 30, 2012)

I don't find piracy a crime,as long as it is used in proper places,I pirate because I think it is okay to an extent,for example you can't find a proper ps1 game on ebay for less than a 100$,these are the situations when I pirate,anyways,@xxNathanxx please also blame some developers now a days who also tend to act like pigs,Capcom anyone?


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Companies putting out stats on piracy isn't 'the public perception', it's 'the companies' perception'.
> 
> Do you not understand that if no one buys or even pirates an artist's overpriced content, perhaps the artist might realise the content is overpriced and will charge less for future releases? By pirating his content you are sending a message, "I like your content but I'm a cunt that doesn't want to pay for it" [in the artist's perception].


Replying to a lost cause like you is really giving me a hadache. You do realize that if piracy was called something else like rainbow or unicorn then it wouldn't seem as "evil" as people make it out to be.

Using rational opinions are lost on you are they. Those artists or companies won't change even if their sales are low and will then resort to stupid statements saying that piracy is the cause of this or to ridiculous anti piracy measures when its clear that all they need t do is drop their prices.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Replying to a lost cause like you is really giving me a hadache. You do realize that if piracy was called something else like rainbow or unicorn then it wouldn't seem as "evil" as people make it out to be.
> 
> Using rational opinions are lost on you are they. Those artists or companies won't change even if their sales are low and will then resort to stupid statements saying that piracy is the cause of this.


Precisely. There's actually a good essay by an indie developer about this. I wish I could find it so I could post it here... it was on reddit a few weeks ago.


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Precisely. There's actually a good essay by an indie developer about this. I wish I could find it so I could post it here... it was on reddit a few weeks ago.


I think I read something similar to that since I really just paraphrased what they wrote, can't seem to find it though.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Um... no you don't. By pirating, you're sending the message that "this isn't worth paying that price, to me," and the artist likely would be motivated to lower the price or perhaps offer higher quality content. And who knows, maybe they'll loosen their DRM grip, if they have one.
> 
> I'm not saying I think it's right, because I don't. But piracy DEFINITELY doesn't send the message that you think it does.


But I am right. Are you an artist? No. You're a pirate. The message you think you are sending isn't the message the artist receives. You seem to think these are one and the same, but they're not.



Just Another Gamer said:


> Replying to a lost cause like you is really giving me a hadache. You do realize that if piracy was called something else like rainbow or unicorn then it wouldn't seem as "evil" as people make it out to be.


Hey man thanks for the ad hominem, makes your point extremely valid.

People (I assume you mean virtually the entire world population) make piracy out to be evil? Most people don't even have a clear opinion on piracy. Simply because you change the word used to define the act of copying someone's content without paying for it doesn't mean it will be seen as less 'evil' by those who already make it out to be evil, and won't change the opinions of those who have yet to think about it either.



Just Another Gamer said:


> Using rational opinions are lost on you are they. Those artists or companies won't change even if their sales are low and will then resort to stupid statements saying that piracy is the cause of this or to ridiculous anti piracy measures when its clear that all they need t do is drop their prices.


Whoa man, another ad hominem, thanks a bunch! So far the only 'rational' argument I've heard for piracy from you (and everyone else in this thread) is: "I want to play games but I don't want to spend my money on them."

Also, here's a great read for the uneducated: http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/letter-to-emily-white-at-npr-all-songs-considered/

I do not agree with everything, but most of it is very true.


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## Narayan (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> "I want to play games but I don't want to spend my money on them."


Isn't that what piracy is? and what this thread is about.


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## DCG (Oct 30, 2012)

(and I'm out of here, thanks to BAF/brein/RIAA/Buma Stemra/whatever employee xxNathanxx, there just isn't one way to reason with you)

The music I listen is mostley from amateurs who don't charge money for their hobby so am I pirating those too????


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> But I am right. Are you an artist? No. You're a pirate. The message you think you are sending isn't the message the artist receives. You seem to think these are one and the same, but they're not.
> 
> 
> Hey man thanks for the ad hominem, makes your point extremely valid.
> ...


Wow, its like you clearly ignored what everyone else is saying and stubbornly stand on your high horse.

And not spending n absurd amounts of money for a hobby is wrong now? Maybe you haven't noticed but not everyone here is a multimillionaire who can buy anything they want when they want it and by your logic they're suppose to miss out because the retailers and rich billion dollar companies want to put a high price on their products?


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> But I am right. Are you an artist? No. You're a pirate. The message you think you are sending isn't the message the artist receives. You seem to think these are one and the same, but they're not.


Except you AREN'T right. Anyway, I don't pirate anymore, did you even read the OP? Or did you just see "piracy" in the thread's title, and go "ZOMG TIME TO RIGHTEOUSLY ATTACK THE EVIL MOFOS???" 



xxNathanxx said:


> So far the only 'rational' argument I've heard for piracy from you (and everyone else in this thread) is: "I want to play games but I don't want to spend my money on them."


Except that's not the only argument. Most of them boiled down to "I can't afford them." Again, not saying I agree. but there's definitely more than one argument being given here, and you just refuse to take off the "I'mma better than all y'all" lenses and consider people's situations. Do you owe it to them to not say that you think what they're doing is wrong? Of course not. But you can't just charge in here and insult a bunch of people over the blanket term pirate applying to them.

Btw, found it!

http://lightmare-studio.com/the-piracy-fallacy/


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Narayan said:


> Isn't that what piracy is? and is the point of this thread?


My point is that all of you somehow feel entitled to own those games without paying for them. How is that, in any way, morally acceptable?



DCG said:


> (and I'm out of here, thanks to BAF/brein/RIAA/Buma Stemra/whatever employee xxNathanxx, there just isn't one way to reason with you)
> 
> The music I listen is mostley from amateurs who don't charge money for their hobby so am I pirating those too????


More ad hominem. Hurray!

If those people give out their music for free, that's fine! When did I ever say it is piracy when you get the music that those people released for free, for free?

EDIT: lol, telling you're 'out of here', but still staying in the thread, classic.



Just Another Gamer said:


> Wow, its like you clearly ignored what everyone else is saying and stubbornly stand on your high horse.
> 
> And not spending n absurd amounts of money for a hobby is wrong now? Maybe you haven't noticed but not everyone here is a multimillionaire who can buy anything they want when they want it and by your logic they're suppose to miss out because the retailers and rich billion dollar companies want to put a high price on their products?


The thing is, a year later, you can find the things that cost, let's say, €50 on release day, for €5 at a garage sale, in perfect condition. Why do you feel entitled not only to owning products without having paid for them, but owning them ASAP, often even sooner than people who paid their hard-earned money for those products?



xwatchmanx said:


> Except you AREN'T right. Anyway, I don't pirate anymore, did you even read the OP? Or did you just see "piracy" in the thread's title, and go "ZOMG TIME TO RIGHTEOUSLY ATTACK THE EVIL MOFOS???"
> 
> 
> Except that's not the only argument. Most of them boiled down to "I can't afford them." Again, not saying I agree. but there's definitely more than one argument being given here, and you just refuse to take off the "I'mma better than all y'all" lenses and consider people's situations. Do you owe it to them to not say that you think what they're doing is wrong? Of course not. But you can't just charge in here and insult a bunch of people over the blanket term pirate applying to them.


And I am wrong because? Do you have any clue how this works?

Should you be able to get a free sports car just because you want one but can't afford one? Should you be able to get free music tuition just because you would like to learn how to play the piano but can't afford the lessons? Why should people be able to get free games just because they want them but can't afford them?

All this said I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of Megabox to see how it will turn the piracy game upside down.


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> My point is that all of you somehow feel entitled to own those games without paying for them. How is that, in any way, morally acceptable?


Well atleast I guess this argument i going somewhere and honestly morall acceptable is subjective I mean what is wrong to you might be neutral to me.



xxNathanxx said:


> The thing is, a year later, you can find the things that cost, let's say, €50 on release day, for €5 at a garage sale, in perfect condition. Why do you feel entitled not only to owning products without having paid for them, but owning them ASAP, often even sooner than people who paid their hard-earned money for those products?
> 
> 
> And I am wrong because? Do you have any clue how this works?
> ...


So what I have to wait a year just because someone can't step off their high horse? Yea i'll pass on that. Also what about all those ridiculous DRM and stuff hm? Like FF3 on Android which requires you to be online to be play a single player game. Cause there is alot of incentive there for me to not pirate something that has such a ridiculous system in place.

You can't download a sports car or free music tuition so none of your examples even make sense in the first place.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> And I am wrong because? Do you have any clue how this works?


You're the one who made the original claim, so the burden of proof rests on you. You can't just make a claim with no proof, and then when someone challenges you, say "prove me wrong." That's not how it works. Because YOU made the initial claim, it's up to YOU to defend why you're right before other people defend why they think you're wrong.


xxNathanxx said:


> Should you be able to get a free sports car just because you want one but can't afford one? Should you be able to get free music tuition just because you would like to learn how to play the piano but can't afford the lessons? Why should people be able to get free games just because they want them but can't afford them?


Why do you continue preaching to the choir? I already said I think that piracy is morally wrong. My problem is that you continue to generalize all pirates as "not paying because they don't want to/are too lazy to," and continue to ignore the fact that many of them have given reasons BESIDES flat-out not wanting to pay (such as a flat-out inability to afford games). Does that make piracy right? Still no, in my opinion. But you refuse to acknowledge that not all pirates are just selfish and lazy, and instead some simply can't even pay the developers of these games even if they wanted to.

And since you're just making a copy of a game, not truly stealing it (like the sports car you mention), there's really not much of a comparison between actual theft and piracy. Theft not only prevents a profit from the seller, but actually STEALS something of value from them. When you pirate a game, you're not walking into GameStop and stealing a physical copy from them, which they can never sell again. You're making an unlicensed copy without affecting the "stock" of the digital product. Like I said for the billionth time, I think it's still wrong. But my point is there's so many holes in your view of this that it's not even funny.

PS: Heck, there's 6 votes in the poll that say they would LIKE to stop pirating, at least.


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## Narayan (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> My point is that all of you somehow feel entitled to own those games without paying for them. How is that, in any way, morally acceptable?


ALL of us? lol.
I just pirate because I can't pay. Maybe I shouldn't but I can so I will. Unless something can stop me.
For example, if i would steal from a store I would get caught and have a record.

Though with piracy, It's not like if I stole a Washing Machine from a department store they'd be 1 washing machine short to sell. there's just a bit of difference. Those who would buy, could still buy. While me who couldn't buy, can still play without really doing real damage.
Though there are also those who would pirate even they have the money.


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## Eerpow (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> But you aren't studying full-time, you're playing games.
> 
> I'm not saying you should get a job during the week, that's ridiculous. A Saturday job where you do the dishes at a local restaurant (or do whatever at a grocery store) and get paid €8-10 per hour goes a long way. You don't need a car, a bicycle will do fine (unless you live on one side of a huge city and need to get to the other side).
> 
> ...


 
Pfft local restaurant, if it was that easy I would be working already. I live in a small town and as I said I have other stuff to do than studying, I have a family to take care off and well life! Should I really sacrifice myself that much just to play some games, hell no. You don't have a clue, it's not like I'm sitting there all day playing games.

No they aren't losing income because if pirating wasn't an option I would be stuck with the small amount of games I can afford. I wouldn't even buy the games I pirate in the first place. Have you even read what I posted???

And stop double posting it's annoying.



DCG said:


> You do know he's from sweden, right?
> Some places are way more remote than germany and could even be dangerous to travel trough without a car...


That isn't a problem, crime is very low here... you should read up on sweden a little more.
Maybe "germany" too.


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## ilman (Oct 30, 2012)

I pirate because, as many people said, I can.
After all I'm 14 years old and it'd be pretty hard to find a job for me. Especially when I have to work during school hours/English classes (gotta get dat FCE)/other classes. I buy games for consoles I can't pirate (3DS in particular) and I think I've gave enough money to gaming companies with all the things I've bought (high-end laptop, 3DS, wii, PSP, a lot of 3DS games, some WII games), so I do what I want cuz a pirate is free, I am a pirate.


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## xxNathanxx (Oct 30, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> So what I have to wait a year just because someone can't step off their high horse? Yea i'll pass on that. Also what about all those ridiculous DRM and stuff hm? Like FF3 on Android which requires you to be online to be play a single player game. Cause there is alot of incentive there for me to not pirate something that has such a ridiculous system in place.
> 
> You can't download a sports car or free music tuition so none of your examples even make sense in the first place.


More ad hominem!

I agree DRM sucks shit and I think patches to disable stuff like requiring an online connection are good. You paid for the game (or whatever), so it should be yours and not limited to several conditions.

My examples were oriented more to the 'everything must be free' than the 'downloading' aspect of piracy.



xwatchmanx said:


> You're the one who made the original claim, so the burden of proof rests on you. You can't just make a claim with no proof, and then when someone challenges you, say "prove me wrong." That's not how it works. Because YOU made the initial claim, it's up to YOU to defend why you're right before other people defend why they think you're wrong.
> 
> Why do you continue preaching to the choir? I already said I think that piracy is morally wrong. My problem is that you continue to generalize all pirates as "not paying because they don't want to/are too lazy to," and continue to ignore the fact that many of them have given reasons BESIDES flat-out not wanting to pay (such as a flat-out inability to afford games). Does that make piracy right? Still no, in my opinion. But you refuse to acknowledge that not all pirates are just selfish and lazy, and instead some simply can't even pay the developers of these games even if they wanted to.
> 
> And since you're just making a copy of a game, not truly stealing it (like the sports car you mention), there's really not much of a comparison between actual theft and piracy. Theft not only prevents a profit from the seller, but actually STEALS something of value from them. When you pirate a game, you're not walking into GameStop and stealing a physical copy from them, which they can never sell again. You're making an unlicensed copy without affecting the "stock" of the digital product. Like I said for the billionth time, I think it's still wrong. But my point is there's so many holes in your view of this that it's not even funny.


lol I thought you were the one who made the original claim so I thought the burden of proof was on you. Nevermind. Pretty sure I already gave several arguments why I am right though.

Those questions were not directed toward you in particular but to everyone (as everyone is replying to these posts anyway).

Anyway I'm tired, if anyone else wants to pick up where I left off feel free to do so.

Get someone to merge my posts if you don't want me double posting.

Adieu.


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## Depravo (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Get someone to merge my posts if you don't want me double posting.


_I've_ merged all your double posts but staff should not have to do this. Use the 'Edit' function in future.


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## Eerpow (Oct 30, 2012)

- Yeah, let someone else take care of it.
Says mr. I'm perfect I don't pirate.

What an asshole.



> Pretty sure I already gave several arguments why I am right


 
Man what a douchy thing to say.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

Depravo said:


> _I've_ merged your all your double posts but staff should not have to do this. Use the 'Edit' function in future.


Off topic, but I'm assuming the auto-merge feature isn't re-enabled yet?


Eerpow said:


> - Yeah, let someone else take care of it.
> Says mr. I'm perfect I don't pirate.
> 
> What an asshole.
> ...


I kinda agree with you, but eh, just let it go. He's stopped now, no need to dwell on it.  Let's get back on topic


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## Just Another Gamer (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I kinda agree with you, but eh, just let it go. He's stopped now, no need to dwell on it.  Let's get back on topic


Yea. I like I said earlier one of my main reasons to enjoy pirating is because of DRM and crap that forces you to be online to play a single player game like FF3 on Android and Chaos Rings otherwise I usually pirate if I can't buy the game cause i'm short of money plus I like to cheat t remove grinding and its hard to do that in a legit game.


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## Eerpow (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Off topic, but I'm assuming the auto-merge feature isn't re-enabled yet?
> 
> I kinda agree with you, but eh, just let it go. He's stopped now, no need to dwell on it.  Let's get back on topic


It's just that no one can be right or wrong when it comes to piracy which is what I'm pointing out.

Anyway arguments are fine I think as long as people aren't flaming. Sorry.


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## GammaGeorgeX (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Depends how you define 'unique'. Something can be 'unique' because there is nothing even remotely like it, or it can be 'unique' because it is a unique combination of things that already exist, e.g., if I were to make a hybrid table/towel, it would (probably) be unique in the sense that no one has made a hybrid table/towel before, but it would not be unique in the sense that it is merely a combination of a table and a towel.


Yeah, I think of it as 'no possession exists' in a way. I mean some people even call humans their own possessions, so what  mean is that if we're all in the same source, pirating is good for it's convenience imo.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> It's just that no one can be right or wrong when it comes to piracy which is what I'm pointing out.
> 
> Anyway arguments are fine I think as long as people aren't flaming. Sorry.


It's no problem.


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## Hadrian (Oct 30, 2012)

Use to pirate a lot nowadays I just do it to test, I don't seem to like many modern titles and with the lack of demos and GOOD review sources plus I tend to be pickier than others it's hard to know which game to get if I'm on the fence about something. And I do only test, if something seems really damn good then I quit playing until I buy the game because I've had many moments where I've finished a game and then when I can afford it I don't end up buying it until it's on sale if at all. Of course I still pirate roms, most I do tend to buy when they're re-released but sadly many home computer games never get reissued.

I do pirate a lot of TV but I do end up getting the boxsets when they become available with exception to BBC stuff as the TV license funds them.

When it comes to movies I just rent them now, unless it something I really enjoy then I buy the DVD.

Since I decreased the piracy and hoarding I've got way too much HDD space left.  Piracy is still bad though, even "trying" is wrong but without options of demoes and in some cases games not even getting a release in some countries there is no other way.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Piracy is for losers. If you're in a position where you can't afford games (or records or books or whatever) and you resort to piracy, you suck. Maybe you should use the time you spend playing pirated video games to think of ways to improve your life, or at the very least your wage. Do you NEED that PS3 game? Do you NEED that episode? Do you NEED that album? Of course not. They might be nice extras that make you feel good for a minute but in the end you could have spent the time you spent playing the game doing something more useful which would actually allow you to spend more time playing games in the future (and would allow you to pay for said games).
> 
> If you have the money to afford everything you want but still resort to piracy, you're a complete twat.


I completely agree with this.

It isn't fun to hear, as I pirate stuff on a pretty regular basis...but I can't deny it's true. :-\

I do have the money, so that's not the issue. And indeed: why the fuck do I do it? Especially on the wii front, I'm more busy checking whether game X or feature Y works, rather than actually playing (I can testify that over a 100 games start on neek2o...of that, I've played practically a dozen until the third level. And about six of those I've played longer than that).
I wish I could say "but I've always bought the games that I've finished"...but that's not really true either. There are always fake reasons to avoid buying it.


I voted "...but I would like to stop". On PC, it's been many years since I pirated*. And I've gotta admit: steam makes it easier to go legit (part of my reasoning of pirating is that you don't have to go out the door to buy something). On android: the same thing (though they REALLY need to get a freakin' paypal paying method in place). On the wiiU, I'll try to resist it once it gets hacked (or at least buy it faster than "whenever my conscience is bugging me").

We'll see what happens...






*I'm leaving a cracked version of borderlands out of this: I actually downloaded and installed that out of frustration because of some retarded issue with the retail disk.


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## Gahars (Oct 30, 2012)

emigre said:


> I thought this thread would be a support group regarding plundering the seven seas.


 
Agreed. There's a worrying lack of doubloons in this thread.

On topic, I'm in the "Doesn't Pirate" boat. It's a mix of two factors: I like to support the developers if I can, and I'm too lazy to bother with it in the first place. Mostly laziness, though.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

Wever said:


> *I'm leaving a cracked version of borderlands out of this: I actually downloaded and installed that out of frustration because of some retarded issue with the retail disk.


Well, of course you already paid for the game. so that's a non-issue.


Gahars said:


> Agreed. There's a worrying lack of doubloons in this thread.
> 
> On topic, I'm in the "Doesn't Pirate" boat. It's a mix of two factors: I like to support the developers if I can, and I'm too lazy to bother with it in the first place. Mostly laziness, though.


It's funny how laziness can work for both sides of this.


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## Narayan (Oct 30, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> It's funny how laziness can work for both sides of this.


Well, not all games are just download and go play. It's easier to just buy the game instead of waiting for a crack. or a fix for the crack.


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## Sterling (Oct 30, 2012)

Define: entitlement - 

belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

---

Define: Ad Hominem -


(of an argument or reaction) Arising from or appealing to the emotions and not reason or logic.
Attacking an opponent's motives or character rather than the policy or position they maintain.
 
At the moment Nathan, you've been using the second term to describe people's arguments. Not only are you using the 1st definition, but also the second definition to dismiss their claims and reinforce yours as fact. You're walking a fine line, and you're going to fall off sooner or later.

You can't have a discussion about piracy without falling into ad hominem in the first place. Piracy is a really ambiguous subject without a lot of hard facts. Things like companies losing sales is not a sure thing as much as it is a potential to. You can't try to reason your way into a purely emotional justification like you can with science or literature. Piracy is something that cannot be justified through reason.

Most pirates understand that piracy is wrong. While there are many people who get pissed because of an update that renders flashcards or back-up loaders useless, there others who understand why and then just accept it. Very few of us feel "entitled" to pirated copies. That term is thrown around all to often and is an insult to those of us who don't think like that.

I pirate because I want to and because I can. I pirate because I like modding my systems and that's something that I can do. If my flashcart suddenly doesn't work after an update, it's no real loss to me. I'm not attached to the copies. Maybe the saves, but not the copies.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2012)

Narayan said:


> Well, not all games are just download and go play. It's easier to just buy the game instead of waiting for a crack. or a fix for the crack.


I suppose. I wouldn't really know, since none of the kind of games I ever pirated needed cracks.


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## Arm73 (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> For popular artists this isn't a problem because they earn enough money anyway through various sources. *Less popular artists CAN NOT survive (by survive, I mean, continue doing what they do) without the income generated by sales of their albums on Bandcamp or similar.*
> 
> Holy fuck, you can't tell the Belgian flag from the German one?


 
And how do you think artists used to survive, and even get famous and have a great life of success back when recording studios weren't invented yet ?
REAL ARTIST can perform LIVE, they love it actually , and the better they are, the bigger gig they get in better and bigger places.
You can be an artist, and work everyday doing what you like and get paid for it. You can also sell your CDs to people that actually enjoy your music and want to take it home.
Back in the day, artists were artists.

I'm glad that piracy is killing the music industry ( or so they say ) so that we can get rid once and for all of all the crap that's out there.
Ex gangsters, rappers with questionable life styles who try to teach young people how to live theirs.
They deserve to die ! No wait, even better , they deserve to be put on a stage with a live microphone and a real band and see what the fuck can they really do and run away in shame......

In other words, real talent pays off, no matter what industry are you in.
But if you suck at what you do, then I'm glad people won't even bother to pirate your junk stuff......


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## pyromaniac123 (Oct 30, 2012)

I used to pirate before I had a job. Now I've got a job, I still pirate.

aarrgghh.


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## SickPuppy (Oct 30, 2012)

I would never admit to such activities.


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## suppow (Oct 30, 2012)

i do some game development on my spare time,
and my main goal _aside_ from *making* that (putting it out there, finishing it, creating it, etc)
is to get others to play it / experience it.
same as when making music, or writing a book.

so* for me* it's better for someone to not pay for them and still play them, 
than not pay for them and not play them at all. 
(in the second scenario i'm not gaining anything over the first one)

i think that when it comes to it, the people who would "pirate" my games,
either disagree with the price (but are still interested since they're "pirating" them, and not just ignoring it)
or cant afford it. and i'm fine with that.
so the people that would pay for it would still do it, and the people who wouldnt, wouldnt anyways.

so when it comes to pricing, instead of thinking how much money i'd like to *charge* or gain,
i think how much i would be willing *pay* for it myself (if it was somebody else's) without wanting to pirate it.
some even for free.
it's better to put out a game for $1 and still have people buy it and like it, and maybe buy your next one,
than making $100 and no one buying it.


so buying, not buying and pirating all send different messages.


-----------------------------------------
i also have a weird theory that video game sales should focus on hardware
and companies making the consoles (like nintendo, microsoft, sony) should more or less subsidize software

it's analogous to how i think musicians should focus on live performances for revenue and and recordings for support.

that's just my very disorganized two cents


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## Felipe_9595 (Oct 30, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Piracy is for losers. If you're in a position where you can't afford games (or records or books or whatever) and you resort to piracy, you suck. Maybe you should use the time you spend playing pirated video games to think of ways to improve your life, or at the very least your wage. Do you NEED that PS3 game? Do you NEED that episode? Do you NEED that album? Of course not. They might be nice extras that make you feel good for a minute but in the end you could have spent the time you spent playing the game doing something more useful which would actually allow you to spend more time playing games in the future (and would allow you to pay for said games).
> 
> If you have the money to afford everything you want but still resort to piracy, you're a complete twat.


 
Who are you to tell me about what i do with my time??


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## triassic911 (Nov 1, 2012)

I only pirated stuff when I have no job. Otherwise I pay for everything.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm actually happy that I stopped pirating all together.

I go out and buy the games, and I like having a collection. Before I would just have a huge amount of games on a MicroSD, and I found myself never finishing any of them. And now that I actually pay for them, I want to get my money's worth out of them. I mean, I'll be honest, I'm a huge AC fan, but if I pirated AC3, chances are I wouldn't even play it, same goes for Mass Effect 3.

I like having a huge collection of games to choose from. I don't know, it just feels better. Hell, I don't even really buy used anymore unless that's all there is. I'll gladly go to EBGames, and pay full price for a game...except for Resident Evil 6, that game is a piece of shit and deserves to be pirated. I'm glad I got 18 bucks for it at EBGames. What a waste of money and resources that game was.


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## suppow (Nov 1, 2012)

i was watching this slightly related video on DRM, which i thought might interest some of you.


while on the subject, i do think most of those are crap, except for steam,
but i actually kinda liked how Activision went about it with Skylanders


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 1, 2012)

Just watched that and honestly this is one of the reasons why I pirate my games, its usually so I don't have to put up with this type of bullshit that companies do cause if I buy it legit then i'm stuck doing something I don't even want to do in the first place like not being online to play a single player game or jumping through hoops just to start playing by myself.


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## shoyrumaster11 (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm totally fine with pirating all my games and softwarez! I do it to try the full versions of games and software so that I know what i'm planning on buying isn't shit! All the demo's and trial's are total shit if you ask me.  I'm in for piracy. I just do it to test games and software, however!


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## Fazermint (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm a shameless pirate. I can see the moral problems with it, but I'm quite frankly not that bothered by it. I could go on and try to justify this, but I don't think it would serve any purpose.


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## suppow (Nov 1, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Just watched that and honestly this is one of the reasons why I pirate my games, its usually so I don't have to put up with this type of bullshit that companies do cause if I buy it legit then i'm stuck doing something I don't even want to do in the first place like not being online to play a single player game or jumping through hoops just to start playing by myself.



right, copy protection should never get in the way of legitimate users, piracy is always going to be there no matter what,
but let those who actually paid for it enjoy it without all that nonesense.
couse in the end the one's you're punishing are not the 'pirates' but the actual buyers
ugh


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## DinohScene (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm pirating yep.

Although I do buy lots of games/movies/series 
I <3 limited collectors edition games ;3


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 1, 2012)

suppow said:


> right, copy protection should never get in the way of legitimate users, piracy is always going to be there no matter what,
> but let those who actually paid for it enjoy it without all that nonesense.
> couse in the end the one's you're punishing are not the 'pirates' but the actual buyers
> ugh


I wish companies think of a better way if they are afraid of piracy instead of slapping some ridiculous DRM on their game but its unfortunate that companies don't see that it only makes piracy become the better option because it doesn't force them to do anything except play the game.


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## Mr. Prince (Nov 1, 2012)

I only pirate DS games. I used to pirate PSP games, but there isn't anything to pirate anymore.


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## DJPlace (Nov 1, 2012)

i only get a 160 dollars per month to spent on games and i only get 40 per week... and i use to have a ps3 and i was stressing out myself and everyone else around me of having what i want with it since the ps3 may or may not be hacked i gave up on it and sold it for 200 bucks at gamestop and got back into wii side of things been a pirate. and i'm a disk lover... and i hate mod chips... so i love soft mod systems like ps2 wii dreamcast etc... so ps3 for people who can afford it...


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## pwsincd (Nov 1, 2012)

firstly i never cast a vote in the poll as there wasnt a category that fits my train of thought.

I pirate  , have done for a long long time , 15 yrs or so  , have had scene involvement , all sorts of ftp access to pre dumps , i left that scene 7 yrs ago and simply torrent now to keep my kids in the games they demand that i cannot continually afford. Ill watch several films , i wouldnt ever buy a dvd , ill go to the cinema regularly , but most films i dont want to see again . music i buy , massive collection of vinyl and cds always been a passion . i buy games for the 3ds for the kids , prolly cuz i cant play roms lol.  Id prefer not to have to pirate , but im no rocket scientist.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 1, 2012)

pwsincd said:


> firstly i never cast a vote in the poll as there wasnt a category that fits my train of thought.
> 
> I pirate , have done for a long long time , 15 yrs or so , have had scene involvement , all sorts of ftp access to pre dumps , i left that scene 7 yrs ago and simply torrent now to keep my kids in the games they demand that i cannot continually afford. Ill watch several films , i wouldnt ever buy a dvd , ill go to the cinema regularly , but most films i dont want to see again . music i buy , massive collection of vinyl and cds always been a passion . i buy games for the 3ds for the kids , prolly cuz i cant play roms lol. Id prefer not to have to pirate , but im no rocket scientist.


Wouldn't that fit in the "I currently pirate and I see no problem with it" category...?


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## RodrigoDavy (Nov 1, 2012)

I am still not su sure of what pirating is, as a child I had some bootleg snes games and like 200 bootleg ps1 games. I didn't know I was doing something illegal, but where I live is either pirating or spending a lot of money on games. I made a whole lot of effort to buy my 3ds and games for it and all of them were brought from the US or bought from the eshop so I could pay only half the price I pay here. Truth is, eletronic and technological stuff are expensive in Brazil. Companies keep complaining about brazilians pirating but they don't lower their price and the government charge them high taxes so there's not much to do. They don't even translate games to portuguese, MK7 and SM3DL have portuguese translations in europe but they didn't bother to do the same in america (even if it was just copy and paste). People might argue that it doesn't matter but I've seen children playing games in spanish as it is the language most similar to portuguese. Imagine how many people couldn't enjoy a Zelda game for being no good at english...
To be fair, I support and I am pro piracy and it's not only for the price question. I think there should be a solution for the way games are marketed.


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## Parasite X (Nov 1, 2012)

I admite I do Pirate games but then I buy them so that the copies are now backup game copies and then there's no guilt afterwards but mostly for games I hope to own or games I use to own.


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## McHaggis (Nov 1, 2012)

I voted the last option, because it fits me closer than any others.  I genuinely buy the games I like; I probably have more original Wii and PS3 games than most consumers, and I think I pirate a lot less than your average pirate, probably downloading 1-2 games per month.  I generally download USA region games before they're released to PAL regions.  I don't always buy every single game I like, sometimes I forget or other games are released and I make a choice based on my budget.  

Does that make me a dirty stinking pirate? Probably.


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## suppow (Nov 1, 2012)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I am still not su sure of what pirating is, as a child I had some bootleg snes games and like 200 bootleg ps1 games. I didn't know I was doing something illegal, but where I live is either pirating or spending a lot of money on games. I made a whole lot of effort to buy my 3ds and games for it and all of them were brought from the US or bought from the eshop so I could pay only half the price I pay here. Truth is, eletronic and technological stuff are expensive in Brazil. Companies keep complaining about brazilians pirating but they don't lower their price and the government charge them high taxes so there's not much to do. They don't even translate games to portuguese, MK7 and SM3DL have portuguese translations in europe but they didn't bother to do the same in america (even if it was just copy and paste). People might argue that it doesn't matter but I've seen children playing games in spanish as it is the language most similar to portuguese. Imagine how many people couldn't enjoy a Zelda game for being no good at english...
> To be fair, I support and I am pro piracy and it's not only for the price question. I think there should be a solution for the way games are marketed.


i think that applies to most if not all of south america as far as i know,
it's on the companies' fault i'd say, since they dont have official representation/distribution there,
unlike in the USA or Europe or Asia, so they cant complain about it if they're not paying attention to those customers,
if you're there you have two options:
a) buy expensive imports
b) pirate the games (and sometimes even have to pay to buy pirated copies)
so as long as they keep ignoring that market (which is huge),
and treating it like 'third world', they're gonna keep getting 'third world' customers pirating their games.

also when it comes to translations, i support running patched roms, (it's better if you own a copy)
but fuck them for not localizing games, like Mother 1+2 or 3, and so many others!


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## Deleted_171835 (Nov 1, 2012)

I pirate but not as often. Generally if I can afford a game, I'll buy it or wait a little bit until I can get it. For example, I pirated Deus Ex: HR a while back because I couldn't afford it and really wanted to check it out. I ended up buying a Steam copy months after I completed the game to support the devs.


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## nukeboy95 (Nov 1, 2012)

why say you pirate in a open form that any one cAn see

its like yelling out side your local FBI agent I PIRATE STUFF ON THE INTERNET


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## celcodioc (Nov 1, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> why say you pirate in a open form that any one cAn see
> 
> its like yelling out side your local FBI agent I PIRATE STUFF ON THE INTERNET


 
If all leechers were killed, the human population of the Earth would go down by *a lot*.


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## nukeboy95 (Nov 1, 2012)

celcodioc said:


> If all leechers were killed, the human population of the Earth would go down by *a lot*.


 

leecher are seeder in disguise


for all leechers


Spoiler


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## Qtis (Nov 1, 2012)

Personally I've got a huge collection (probably around 50-100?) PS3 games, legit. Most have been bought on sale for 10-15€ during multiple years. Some new, some used. A big collection of PS2 games too, legit. A few Wii/DS games, a huge collection of PC games, all legit. Mostly I buy games that are on sale, rarely pay more than 25€ for a PS3 game for instance.

I do have a biggish collection of Wii/PS2 games on HDDs next to the consoles. Most of the games can't be run on PAL consoles (import games), so keeping the discs available next to the console vs HDD is just a more practical issue.

Music downloads have been pretty much zero for the 3 years that I've been using Spotify, be it legit or pirated downloads. Most radio stations play the big hits on such a small playlist that the songs get boring quite quickly, and Spotify has a huge selection of songs from pretty much every genre imaginable.

Now that Netflix arrived to the Nordic countries, quite a few new series and movies are available (for free till the end of the year!). Only series that I still download are How I met your mother and The Big Bang theory. Because I can't buy them even though I'm willing to pay for them. Thanks goes to licensing/blocking content outside the US.

Not trying to be a complete A-hole, but saying that someone "has to have the latest games/movies/whatever" is interesting in quite a few different ways. Just imagine having that one game (say Zelda TP) and your neighbor has a newer one (the new Skyward Sword). Why shouldn't the person wait a while to be able to buy the game and then play it? Or possibly loan the game from the neighbor? Now change the words game into cars. You have an old Lada and your neighbor the newest and fastest Audi. What would the situation be now?

If it's not relevant and physical objects aren't comparable to IP/design/games/etc, go to China for example. You could probably buy a locally made exact copy of the new Audi. Do the people actually making the new tech in the Audi earn a small compensation for the R&D of the new car design? The patent system is f'd up in many ways, but no one, I mean no one, can say that the time and money invested in new innovative markets shouldn't be compensated in one way or another.

Not sure of people's income levels and work situations on the 'Temp, but I study full-time and work part-time. I earn around 1000-1500 € per month (including 3-4 months of full-time work during the summer) while studying around 40 hours per week and working around 10-20 hours per week. I probably pay more tax (income tax around 20-25% for my small income, VAT at 23% (pretty much all products around), production taxes, etc) than most of you. Also living here is very expensive (easily 400-500€ per month for a single room with an integrated kitchen + bathroom).

Rambling, rambling. Too hard to write down now, need sleep...

To sum it up IMHO: Piracy is ok if there is really no legit option available. If the only reason for piracy is not wanting to pay, piracy should be frowned upon. More (cheap!) legit alternatives are popping up for music and TV/movies (gaming is still somewhere far away compared to the other forms). If you want to enjoy the entertainment (indeed this is what it's all about, entertainment), why not at least try the services and see what it's about?

If the services aren't available in your region, try contacting different companies and tell them your interest. In the mean time, show interest in the shows/games/whatever. Maybe that will show companies your true interest. Illegal downloads are also a way to monitor market interest for certain products 


ps. One of the best articles on piracy and it's possible gains via TorrentFreak: http://torrentfreak.com/best-selling-author-turns-piracy-into-profit-080512/


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## RodrigoDavy (Nov 1, 2012)

Qtis said:


> ps. One of the best articles on piracy and it's possible gains via TorrentFreak: http://torrentfreak.com/best-selling-author-turns-piracy-into-profit-080512/


 
Hehehe, it's a interview with Paulo Coelho. One of Brazil's most loved and hated writer. ^^
I do agree with him that piracy can help on sales, many people got to know some franchises through pirating and even if they don't buy it they'll tell their other friends how much awesome that game is and it will increase it's popularity. It's no wonder free PC games like Cave Story and VVVVVV got so famous and even their paid WiiWare/eshop versions are selling well know.


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## Devin (Nov 1, 2012)

Hello, my name is Devin and I'm a pirate.

I used to be clean man. Save up pennies in a little coin jar for months to get my games. And then it started by getting a little taste of the Wii piracy scene. I thought like anyone else would think "Alright man, one hit of a pirated game and I'm done". But it got up to 2 hits, and then 3 hits, and then 42 hits. It didn't stop at the Wii, the DS, Xbox 360, PS2, PS3, PC, and other systems were to follow man. Now I'm on street begging for change, so I can pay for my bandwidth to pirate more games. The worst part is, when you get one hit. The next time you want a hit, you have to pirate more man. To get that same "feel" again. 

One hit will ruin your life.


Spoiler



But in all seriousness. I am a pirate, a very dirty pirate. I'm already in too deep to change, and if I were to try to quit. I would look at my Xbox 360/Wii and not be using it to it's full potential. It may seem a little selfish, but I really wouldn't feel pride in paying for a game I could have gotten for free. While my money could be used for other things.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 1, 2012)

What's more wrong, second-hand retailers charging exorbitant prices for used/damaged games (i.e legacy 8-bit NES or 16-bit Snes) that are no longer being produced by companies, or downloading said games off the internet?


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 1, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> What's more wrong, second-hand retailers charging exorbitant prices for used/damaged games (i.e legacy 8-bit NES or 16-bit Snes) that are no longer being produced by companies, or downloading said games off the internet?


Two wrongs don't make a right. Just saying.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 1, 2012)

I mostly PC game, so I pirate quite often. Thanks to some rather extravagant summer plans, I really can't afford to buy that many games, since all the ones I ever want are new. Or, most.
I'll buy console games simply because I have to. When i researched modding my 360, my brain pretty much short circuited. PS3 scene is dead, and I never play my wii. Only playing 3DS and Vita games for handheld doesn't help either.
So basically I have to pirate on my main gaming outlet to be able to afford my summer and sub-gaming outlets. Well I don't have to. I could just...not play the game.
But haha, like that's an option.

I still buy some games when they're too cheap to refuse though, like steam sales.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right. Just saying.


 
If I'm going to buy games, it will either be from a company like Nintendo, and not some douche on eBay charging 100 dollars for a used copy of Chrono Trigger.  I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I personally have no ill/moral guilt from having legacy Snes ROMs that aren't on the Virtual Console.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 2, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> If I'm going to buy games, it will either be from a company like Nintendo, and not some douche on eBay charging 100 dollars for a used copy of Chrono Trigger. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I personally have no ill/moral guilt from having legacy Snes ROMs that aren't on the Virtual Console.


ChronoTrigger is on DS.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> ChronoTrigger is on DS.


 
I was using it as an example, Earthbound is another good one.


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## Lemmy Koopa (Nov 2, 2012)

I think of piracy of a form of fighting against bloated prices. I think there are products that deserve being bought, and ones that aren't. It's hard to explain.
Example, if you download something and find it good, you should buy it to support it. Put some money on things you'd like to back up.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 2, 2012)

Lemmy Koopa said:


> I think of piracy of a form of fighting against bloated prices. I think there are products that deserve being bought, and ones that aren't. It's hard to explain.
> Example, if you download something and find it good, you should buy it to support it. Put some money on things you'd like to back up.


 
I have that attitude with console-priced PC games.
Like Dishonored. Had a ton of fun with it...never in a million years paying $60 for a PC game. Didn't even buy Skyrim and that game is easily worth $60 >_> but it's just the principle. PC games just don't cost that damn much.


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## Lemmy Koopa (Nov 2, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> I have that attitude with console-priced PC games.
> Like Dishonored. Had a ton of fun with it...never in a million years paying $60 for a PC game. Didn't even buy Skyrim and that game is easily worth $60 >_> but it's just the principle. PC games just don't cost that damn much.


 
I think if you enjoy it well, you should try to buy it soon. It's not easy if you don't have much money though.
I don't download new games though. The latest games I got were Minecraft and TF2, and I payed for Minecraft, and TF2 is obviously free. I think the only thing I'm getting are old games that if I buy at a used store, the company isn't even going to make money since it was already purchased and no further buying will obviously support them. Also a lot of games I get are ones I already own physical copies of.


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

Lemmy Koopa said:


> I think of piracy of a form of fighting against bloated prices. I think there are products that deserve being bought, and ones that aren't. It's hard to explain.
> Example, if you download something and find it good, you should buy it to support it. Put some money on things you'd like to back up.


i'd say there are three kind of things
a) the ones worth buying
b) the ones not worth the price / or worth buying but not accessible
c) the ones not worth buying

the C never gets pirated,
B always get pirated and it means there's intereste but it's too pricey or whatever
and A, well A always gets bought unless i turns into B.

so yeah, piracy is a form of showing interest, and saying the price is not agreed upon.
or maybe B needs better quality to deserve that price. 
luckily it can turn B into A, and then people will buy it.

with C, well just make a better product lol


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> I have that attitude with console-priced PC games.
> Like Dishonored. Had a ton of fun with it...never in a million years paying $60 for a PC game. Didn't even buy Skyrim and that game is easily worth $60 >_> but it's just the principle. PC games just don't cost that damn much.


one thing that utterly annoys me about that is the fact that
the principal behind the console game pricing was - and specially back in the day - the cost of manufacturing the _physical_ copy of the game
i mean, the game itself doesnt take much to reproduce, what was expensive were the boxes, artwork, manuals, and cartridges back then,
then onto optical media, CDs/DVDs are infinitely cheaper to make, but you still have the box and manuals, still the price should have gone down.
thus, buying physical console OR PC games i have no problem with the average pricing (aside from it being too high)
but the fact that we're in an age where most of those purchases are for *DIGITAL COPIES*, and they still charge the same price as physical copies,
that's just an insult to the customer in an effort to gain more revenue.

that on one side,
the other is the bastardization of terms like _indie_, indie games were meant to be independent games just that,
then they caught on and became popular (they even started meaning small or cheap games, but that aside)
everyone wants to be indie now, and i *puke* when i see stuff like *EA Indie Games Bundle*, and priced really high
i mean* wtf?
*ugh, rant rant.


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## Lemmy Koopa (Nov 2, 2012)

suppow said:


> i'd say there are three kind of things
> a) the ones worth buying
> b) the ones not worth the price / or worth buying but not accessible
> c) the ones not worth buying
> ...


 
I had an idea for distributing my music. It's simply download with the option to donate. If the people want to donate they will, and if they like it hopefully they'll pay out how much they appreciate it. I think this tactic could help even out the sides of the piracy stuff.


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## gamefan5 (Nov 2, 2012)

Fazermint said:


> I'm a shameless pirate. I can see the moral problems with it, but I'm quite frankly not that bothered by it. I could go on and try to justify this, but I don't think it would serve any purpose.


Says the one with a One piece avatar. LOL!!!


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

Lemmy Koopa said:


> I had an idea for distributing my music. It's simply download with the option to donate. If the people want to donate they will, and if they like it hopefully they'll pay out how much they appreciate it. I think this tactic could help even out the sides of the piracy stuff.


my idea for distributing music has always been sorta like this
free download of 128kbps full songs - most people will just need that 
and a fixed/variable-price/donate for higher quality version (192,320, flacc)
or just Free 128kbps, donate 192kbps+, and buy physical copy with artwork etc.
that and to mainly focus on live performances for profit, and digital copies just to get people to know you


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## Lemmy Koopa (Nov 2, 2012)

suppow said:


> my idea for distributing music has always been sorta like this
> free download of 128kbps full songs - most people will just need that
> and a fixed/variable-price/donate for higher quality version (192,320, flacc)
> or just Free 128kbps, donate 192kbps+, and buy physical copy with artwork etc.
> that and to mainly focus on live performances for profit, and digital copies just to get people to know you


 
Haha, I don't think I'm anywhere to live preforming for profit, in fact I'd think my live stuff would be the one that was free.
I set up equipment to be able to play live via a DAW and Virtual Audio Cable.


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

Lemmy Koopa said:


> Haha, I don't think I'm anywhere to live preforming for profit, in fact I'd think my live stuff would be the one that was free.
> I set up equipment to be able to play live via a DAW and Virtual Audio Cable.


in this day and age, i think live performance is the one thing they cant 'duplicate'
that's the most physical copy, or just like hardware


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## Gahars (Nov 2, 2012)

Lemmy Koopa said:


> I had an idea for distributing my music. It's simply download with the option to donate. If the people want to donate they will, and if they like it hopefully they'll pay out how much they appreciate it. I think this tactic could help even out the sides of the piracy stuff.


 
I think Jonathon Coulton has a similar system in place.

He still sells his music, but he also has a donate button on his website. His message to pirates has basically been, "Hey, you're listening to my music, that's great. If you download my stuff and like it, could you donate a few bucks so I can continue making more?"

It's worked out pretty well for him so far.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 2, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> If I'm going to buy games, it will either be from a company like Nintendo, and not some douche on eBay charging 100 dollars for a used copy of Chrono Trigger. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I personally have no ill/moral guilt from having legacy Snes ROMs that aren't on the Virtual Console.


Oh, I see what you mean. I thought you meant from GameStop and stuff. But if it's stuff that's not even available new, then yeah I agree. I see no problem with downloading legacy games when there's no way to even pay the original company (like you said, earthbound is a great example, as are Pokemon Red/Blue, which aren't even available on virtual console).


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Oh, I see what you mean. I thought you meant from GameStop and stuff. But if it's stuff that's not even available new, then yeah I agree. I see no problem with downloading legacy games when there's no way to even pay the original company (like you said, earthbound is a great example, as are Pokemon Red/Blue, which aren't even available on virtual console).


VC would have been badass, if only it wasnt half-assed.
there are like 10 or so games, and most of the good ones arent there, not to mention japan gets 100x more games lol.
look at the N64 VC for example.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 2, 2012)

suppow said:


> VC would have been badass, if only it wasnt half-assed.
> there are like 10 or so games, and most of the good ones arent there, not to mention japan gets 100x more games lol.
> look at the N64 VC for example.


Don't even get me started on N64 VC... There's only like 21 games in America.


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## DJPlace (Nov 2, 2012)

i would of loved to see the wii VC games have wi-fi... but they only made one and it was a sega game....


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Don't even get me started on N64 VC... There's only like 21 games in America.


must.... not... comment..... cant.... resist....




DJPlace said:


> i would of loved to see the wii VC games have wi-fi... but they only made one and it was a sega game....


did that even happen?

*bitching mode ON:*
if it wasnt for 'pirates' downloading roms in the early 2000s, they wouldnt even have made the VC.
anyhow, on VC titles i hate their double standard,
for example, you can get Super Mario World, but cant get Super Mario World 2 AKA Yoshi's Island,
supposedly because it's on GBA and 3DS VC - wtf?
and of course, you get no GB/GBC/GBA games on WiiVC,
but on 3DS you get NES and SNES VC games,
wtf? double standard fail
*bitching mode OFF.*


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## DJPlace (Nov 2, 2012)

suppow said:


> must.... not... comment..... cant.... resist....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

super street fighter 2 was the only game... and when you start it up it ask if you would like to play offline or online.


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

DJPlace said:


> super street fighter 2 was the only game... and when you start it up it ask if you would like to play offline or online.


at least that exists, was it any good? or perhaps i should ask - was anyone ever online?


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## DJPlace (Nov 2, 2012)

suppow said:


> at least that exists, was it any good? or perhaps i should ask - was anyone ever online?


 
i never tried it... there was also a the arcade version of puyo puyo 2 for the japansese wii VC with online... i almost forget about that...


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## Taleweaver (Nov 2, 2012)

suppow said:


> one thing that utterly annoys me about that is the fact that
> the principal behind the console game pricing was - and specially back in the day - the cost of manufacturing the _physical_ copy of the game
> i mean, the game itself doesnt take much to reproduce, what was expensive were the boxes, artwork, manuals, and cartridges back then,
> then onto optical media, CDs/DVDs are infinitely cheaper to make, but you still have the box and manuals, still the price should have gone down.
> ...


You're pulling shit out of your ass here.

Sure, back in the days, the physical cost was relatively high compared to production cost. On one hand, you had huge boxes, manuals of easily ten times as large as modern games, sometimes a fancy map, a bunch of floppies...quite a lot compared to the fysical stuff nowadays. On the other hand, game creating teams were small. Just take a look at game credits of those games and compare them to today's games.

With prices remaining more or less the same, despite these changes, it doesn't take a genius to see that the cost shifted towards the actual CREATING of the game, right?

You're calling it an insult to the customer when physical copies cost the same as digital ones. Have you even considered the other side of that argument? If they weren't the same...it would mean that people without large internet connections would be discriminated against. And putting the blame on the game developers is also stupid: they already pay for all the physical copies, whether they're bought or not. Putting the internet copy up for cheaper means that less people will buy the phyisical one...which makes it a cost for the company (as said: they have to pay manufacturing costs).


But even then...that's not really correct, is it? I was going to say "have you never heard of steam? Or indie games?"... but you rant about the latter in the rest of the post. Anyway: steam often IS cheaper than the physical copy. Not straight from the start, since it would hurt the sales of the physical copies. But there are plenty of sales so you can beat physical prices.
As for indie games...they do exactly what you want. They have a comparable team size as to "back in the day", and they charge less because there's no manufacturing cost. So I don't really get your rant at all.

Do you want AAA games to be made with a team as small as indie games or something?


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## potato3334 (Nov 2, 2012)

I started pirating around 3 or 4 years ago, and I never felt bad about it once.

Although I still buy games I truly love, like Zelda or Pokemon


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

Wever said:


> You're pulling shit out of your ass here.
> 
> Sure, back in the days, the physical cost was relatively high compared to production cost. On one hand, you had huge boxes, manuals of easily ten times as large as modern games, sometimes a fancy map, a bunch of floppies...quite a lot compared to the fysical stuff nowadays. On the other hand, game creating teams were small. Just take a look at game credits of those games and compare them to today's games.
> 
> ...


A
B






ps:
C
D


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## ouch123 (Nov 2, 2012)

Wever said:


> Do you want AAA games to be made with a team as small as indie games or something?


Though I agree with your post on the whole, I just have to respond to this one part: Resident Evil 6.

On-topic: I'm a fan of a number of series that I probably would never have even tried otherwise. And guess what happens when I like a series enough? *I start spending money on it*. I think it tends to sort itself out, especially since I like having physical media.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Don't even get me started on N64 VC... There's only like 21 games in America.


That alone is the primary reason for installing Wii64 on my SD card; unfortunately, it looks as though the N64/PSX aspect of the Wii may be dead.  The developers never make real emulator progress announcements.  The same reason you stated is also the reason I hacked my Wii because of the blatant refusal to release specific games on the Virtual Console, whether it be due to alleged "legal issues" or some other BS, I justified using Snes9x Next/GX because it did a better job emulating, plus it had filtering.


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## pwsincd (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Wouldn't that fit in the "I currently pirate and I see no problem with it" category...?


no , cuz i see the problem with it , i just cant afford to live without it.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 2, 2012)

pwsincd said:


> no , cuz i see the problem with it , i just cant afford to live without it.


There's really no such thing. Just saying.


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## DAZA (Nov 2, 2012)

i remember back in 1996-7 i was told about the piracy scene online and warez.... lol a term you dont here very often now, times must have been tough for a lot of people so they took when they could, i remember streaming tv shows online. now.... its curious to know if the level of piracy has dropped now because of large companies who do streaming tv + films also sends films and games to your door ?!


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 2, 2012)

DAZA said:


> i remember back in 1996-7 i was told about the piracy scene online and warez.... lol a term you dont here very often now, times must have been tough for a lot of people so they took when they could, i remember streaming tv shows online. now.... its curious to know if the level of piracy has dropped now because of large companies who do streaming tv + films also sends films and games to your door ?!


I think piracy has increased, thanks to the advancement of internet technology. Back in 96/97, it really wasn't feasible to download multi-gb size files at all. Now it is, often in less than an hour thanks to torrents.


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## suppow (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I think piracy has increased, thanks to the advancement of internet technology. Back in 96/97, it really wasn't feasible to download multi-gb size files at all. Now it is, often in less than an hour thanks to torrents.


i remember back in the day, trying to download N64 roms (not that they worked)
"holy shit that's huge" it took a while to download, and then they just sat there, not emu could run the good enough lol


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## emigre (Nov 2, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I think piracy has increased, thanks to the advancement of internet technology. Back in 96/97, it really wasn't feasible to download multi-gb size files at all. Now it is, often in less than an hour thanks to torrents.


 
Than people used to pay to get their consoles modded and then buy burnt games. I remember being a kid and being the only one who didn't have a modded PSOne. If memory serves me correct, you could a PSOne game for about a tenner.


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## pwsincd (Nov 3, 2012)

i recall sat on a 56k modem pre broadband downloading music from napster , thinking if i can d/l music like this there must be more , my endless search resulted in downloading mision impossible 2 the movie and i was hooked , musta took a week . but most the things most ppl d/l they wouldnt have ever bought so i guess its a bizarre form of product hype lol.


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## Sheimi (Nov 3, 2012)

At one point I used to pirate. But when I got a job, thats when I started buying the things I pirated. Was more happy buying my own stuff than downloading it. But, I had a connection going at about 90KB/s when I was pirating. Now I have a connection at 120kb/s. Which is enough for me to play on Wifi and watch Netflix. The download speed deters me now.


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## Dork (Nov 3, 2012)

xxNathanxx said:


> Piracy is for losers. If you're in a position where you can't afford games (or records or books or whatever) and you resort to piracy, you suck. Maybe you should use the time you spend playing pirated video games to think of ways to improve your life, or at the very least your wage. Do you NEED that PS3 game? Do you NEED that episode? Do you NEED that album? Of course not. They might be nice extras that make you feel good for a minute but in the end you could have spent the time you spent playing the game doing something more useful which would actually allow you to spend more time playing games in the future (and would allow you to pay for said games).
> 
> If you have the money to afford everything you want but still resort to piracy, you're a complete twat.


 
I can see you read the OP.


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 3, 2012)

Dark S. said:


> I can see you read the OP.


Well its obvious that if a thread like this is made these elitist tolls will flock to it shoving their shit in people's faces.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

Sheimi said:


> At one point I used to pirate. But when I got a job, thats when I started buying the things I pirated. Was more happy buying my own stuff than downloading it. But, I had a connection going at about 90KB/s when I was pirating. Now I have a connection at 120kb/s. Which is enough for me to play on Wifi and watch Netflix. The download speed deters me now.


It's funny because it seems most ex-pirates I've heard here stopped when they got a job, myself included. Guess it debunks the idea that "all pirates are lazy and selfish and just don't want to go to the effort to pay." Some of us just COULDN'T pay. Now that I have a job, like you, I'm more than happy to pay for things. Granted, I don't think I would go back to pirating if I lost my job, but it's still an interesting thing to think about.


Dark S. said:


> I can see you read the OP.


I was thinking the exact same thing, but I wasn't gonna say anything! XD


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> It's funny because it seems most ex-pirates I've heard here stopped when they got a job, myself included. Guess it debunks the idea that "all pirates are lazy and selfish and just don't want to go to the effort to pay." Some of us just COULDN'T pay. Now that I have a job, like you, I'm more than happy to pay for things. Granted, I don't think I would go back to pirating if I lost my job, but it's still an interesting thing to think about.


Thats weird because when I worked and was earning money I still pirated, probably because I spend all of it on my hardware and stuff for my consoles. I do think it is more convenient to have the ISOs or ROMs since they can be stored on 1 device like the console hard drive or memory card instead of carrying around all these cartridges and disks.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Thats weird because when I worked and was earning money I still pirated, probably because I spend all of it on my hardware and stuff for my consoles. I do think it is more convenient to have the ISOs or ROMs since they can be stored on 1 device like the console hard drive or memory card instead of carrying around all these cartridges and disks.


Yeah. I'm not saying that applies to ALL pirates, but to the ones who do stop, that seems to be a common trend.


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Yeah. I'm not saying that applies to ALL pirates, but to the ones who do stop, that seems to be a common trend.


Ah sorry I guess I misread. But don't you find it hard having to carry around all your games if your travelling?


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> But don't you find it hard having to carry around all your games if your travelling?


For DS games? Not really. At least, not yet. I got



Spoiler: one of these











with my Club Nintendo points this summer, and it's compact (the size of a typical 3DS game case), small enough to fit in my backpack with ease. I do kind of miss having all my games on one cart, but it's not that big of a deal. With GBA it sort of is, though.

That considered, even though I stopped pirating, I'm considering grabbing an EZ Flash IV for my GBA games, even though I'll still buy them legally. It'll be much less of a hassle since it's such a pain to carry GBA carts everywhere.


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## The Minecrafter (Nov 3, 2012)

The way I see it, piracy should be considered an extended "Bill Me Later". You should always support the companies of the games that you like and enjoy, but I know some people do not have the cash, or sometimes it is a really expensive game, and they want to see if it is worth it. I say, if you like it, or did like it, when it is convenient for you, you should buy the game and support the company. Because the company will still get your money from your purchase, it will just be a lot later than usual.


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> For DS games? Not really. At least, not yet. I got
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah thats cool altgough you're limited to 18 which might get annoying later on. But yea I agree with GBA its much harder. I remember when I actualy had GBA games it was a pain to carry them in my bag going places but now i'm so happy with all the GBA games I love on my phone...good times..


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## emigre (Nov 3, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Ah thats cool altgough you're limited to 18 which might get annoying later on. But yea I agree with GBA its much harder. I remember when I actualy had GBA games it was a pain to carry them in my bag going places but now i'm so happy with all the GBA games I love on my phone...good times..


 
Shirley eighteen is more than enough. Honestly who is insane enough to want to carry a large number of their game collection?


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 3, 2012)

emigre said:


> Shirley eighteen is more than enough. Honestly who is insane enough to want to carry a large number of their game collection?


Well my SCDS2 disagrees since I got more than 18 games on that. I had about 20 or something.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Ah thats cool altgough you're limited to 18 which might get annoying later on. But yea I agree with GBA its much harder. I remember when I actualy had GBA games it was a pain to carry them in my bag going places but now i'm so happy with all the GBA games I love on my phone...good times..


I don't buy games that often, especially for handhelds, so I doubt I'll fill more than 2 of those cases at most (I hope it goes back on Club Nintendo soon, it's been gone for a while). But for some people, I can see why that would be a problem.

My phone actually used to be the main way I gamed a couple years ago (playing GBA, SNES, and GBC, using my keyboard for input, before switching to a game-gripper and eventually iControlPad). But I've gotten tired of dealing with a multi-featured non-gaming-dedicated device for games. If I play a game, I just want to sit there without having to worry about pausing to check a text message, or facebook, or a phone call, etc. At the very least if I play on my 3DS or GBA, I can still answer the phone or send a text while the game is still running.


Just Another Gamer said:


> Well my SCDS2 disagrees since I got more than 18 games on that. I had about 20 or something.


I think his point is, how many of those games do you honestly play on a single outing? Sure, you have 20 with you, but you probably play what, 2-4 at most?


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## Just Another Gamer (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I don't buy games that often, especially for handhelds, so I doubt I'll fill more than 2 of those cases at most (I hope it goes back on Club Nintendo soon, it's been gone for a while). But for some people, I can see why that would be a problem.
> 
> My phone actually used to be the main way I gamed a couple years ago (playing GBA, SNES, and GBC, using my keyboard for input, before switching to a game-gripper and eventually iControlPad). But I've gotten tired of dealing with a multi-featured non-gaming-dedicated device for games. If I play a game, I just want to sit there without having to worry about pausing to check a text message, or facebook, or a phone call, etc. At the very least if I play on my 3DS or GBA, I can still answer the phone or send a text while the game is still running.
> 
> I think his point is, how many of those games do you honestly play on a single outing? Sure, you have 20 with you, but you probably play what, 2-4 at most?


Well thats fortunate otherwise if your like me it would've ran out of space pretty quickly.

I don't really have to worry about that at all since those things hardly happen to me so I usually can get a good gaming session on my phone before someone calling me. It helps if your offline so no on bothers you.

Well I do find it convenient to have them on hand in case I feel like playing them. Is not I want to play the same game each time I mean I was playing through HoshiMemo but I felt like playing something else now for a change of pace.


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## porkiewpyne (Nov 3, 2012)

Have not read all 9 pages (yes call me a hypocrite but that's not the point here) but just wondering if I am the only guy who "supports" the companies by getting related merchandise while pirating?

Like artbooks, soundtrack CDs, figurines, etc. I do buy games from time to time. And anyone who knows me well enough will know that I am a sucker for limited edition stuff especially if it includes some physical bonus (such as the VLR watches) or special edition consoles.... well at least I used to until I saw the recent 3DS XL ones :\

Obviously, I pirate. And I do feel bad about it. Not wanting to start a flame war but with all due respect, I do not agree with pirates who claim that it is perfectly alright and tries to justify it to not having money while claiming it to be their right in that sense. And gloat and be arrogant about it to boot. THAT's what ticks me off the most. But I digress.


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## Deleted User (Nov 3, 2012)

im a pirate  i only buy the games i really like


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## suppow (Nov 3, 2012)

Just Another Gamer said:


> Ah sorry I guess I misread. But don't you find it hard having to carry around all your games if your travelling?


that's why even though i own the carts (or disks for that case)
i usually run the roms, specially if i have to go somewhere, i just take the one thing with the roms.
that and for backing up my saves.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

suppow said:


> that's why even though i own the carts (or disks for that case)
> i usually run the roms, specially if i have to go somewhere, i just take the one thing with the roms.
> that and for backing up my saves.


Isn't there a special flash device that allows you to transfer saves between official carts, and flash carts?


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## suppow (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Isn't there a special flash device that allows you to transfer saves between official carts, and flash carts?


there are, but the convenience/inconvenience in doing that varies from platform to platform.
like GBA savs are easy to transfer if you have a DS/DSL, but with just a GBA it gets tricky.
not to mention _other_ systems. lol

*edit*: if you meant the Retrode, i think it's freaking awesome, but i thought we were talking about other methods


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## kylster (Nov 3, 2012)

I pirate.... I don't care yet I still need to stop... It's hard to explain I mostly grab those tv episodes and cartoons for my 2yr old son cause I don't have a DVR but that's no excuse stilll.

Well I've tried in the past and it's an addiction and well I was only able to go 4 months before I started again and ended up DL 200+GB that month.... so yeah... Piracy is an addiction and should be considered a disability like like fat people being well obese.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

suppow said:


> iracy is an addiction and should be considered a disability like like fat people being well obese.


I'm not so sure I would take it THAT far...


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## kylster (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I'm not so sure I would take it THAT far...


That's suppose to be like a serious joke. A truth to laugh at but I'm serious I only get on the PC to download stuff even if it's free lol...... Is that not the same concept as when a obese person eats just cause they feel the need? Not cause they have a thyroid problem or some rare health issue? Just think about it.


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

kylster said:


> That's suppose to be like a serious joke. A truth to laugh at but I'm serious I only get on the PC to download stuff even if it's free lol...... Is that not the same concept as when a obese person eats just cause they feel the need? Not cause they have a thyroid problem or some rare health issue? Just think about it.


I mean, it can be an addiction, yeah, but I don't think it's a disability. Likewise, I don't think an obese person has a "disability" of eating too much. In both cases, the people have complete control over their decisions just like anyone else. Unless of course the pirate has kleptomania or something similar.


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## suppow (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I'm not so sure I would take it THAT far...


wow wow wow, i never said THAT!


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

suppow said:


> wow wow wow, i never said THAT!


Weird... I didn't mean to quote you. idk how that happened.


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## suppow (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Weird... I didn't mean to quote you. idk how that happened.


lol, i see a conspiracy to frame me


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## kylster (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I mean, it can be an addiction, yeah, but I don't think it's a disability. Likewise, I don't think an obese person has a "disability" of eating too much. In both cases, the people have complete control over their decisions just like anyone else. Unless of course the pirate has kleptomania or something similar.


I have to agree with you but if they can get away with it why can't we?


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## xwatchmanx (Nov 3, 2012)

kylster said:


> I have to agree with you but if they can get away with it why can't we?


I think a better question would be "why can anyone get away with it at all?"


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## suppow (Nov 3, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I think a better question would be "why can anyone get away with it at all?"


people wanting to control others, basically.


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