# Nvida vs Crypto miners. Your thoughts.



## FAST6191 (Mar 14, 2021)

News has been floating around about the recent developments in Nvidia vs crypto miners.

For those unfamiliar then cryptocurrencies usually have a hard maths problem at their heart that usually amounts to "try an awful lot of answers until you get the right combination". For various things then graphics cards, which in recent times have become more than just ways to push pixels, can crunch the numbers fast enough that it makes sense either for immediate sale or holding onto the mined currency and waiting for it to appreciate for a little while and then converting it.

This has meant miners of such things have been seen to purchase vast swathes of graphics cards to put into specialist rigs to in turn mine currency. That, especially along with the whole world situation at present, means shortage of cards. Shortage of cards and them still being a desirable purchase in turn means scalpers and bots seeking any available stock, a situation that bothers some.

Seeing this Nvidia thought they would try to split their market offering and allow a dedicated mining card as well as a normal games card but with operations typically done for mining somewhat slowed artificially. However it seems the artificial slowing was more of a software one than buried deep in a chip somewhere. Being software and seen as there are literally millions of dollars on the table for the ones that break the protections then... yeah.
This is not the first time a split for otherwise identical hardware has been offered. For many years now professional 3d modeller (be they computer aided design packages for engineering or those used by game and film creators) have had models that are generally similar but come with special drivers that might be slower but are far less crash prone and locked to specific rather expensive cards (somewhat out of date but a reasonable modern primer https://www.scan2cad.com/cad/cad-graphics-card/ ).

Anyway unlike some earlier reports, or perhaps it is said reports are unconfirmed, then the ethereum (one of the most popular "altcoins", which is to say in cryptocurrency there is bitcoin and everything else, and of everything else then ethereum is one of the biggest players) is not being mined but others that are, and it might be more of a detection that is done inside the card and slowed after a few seconds in if it looks like a mining type load (as opposed to gaming type load) is being performed.

Now if there is a core philosophy of the site then "my device, my rules" would probably be it. At the same time when talking of free speech "I may not like what you have to say but I will defend to to the death your right to say it" is a phrase you will hear, is this then the hardware/hacking equivalent of that?

Random video on the matter


So anyway thoughts on the matter? Do you support Nvidia in making crippled cards? If you do support it how do you reconcile with "my device, my rules"? Do you support hackers in breaking/bypassing blocks?


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## Taleweaver (Mar 15, 2021)

Gamers probably won't like to hear it, but the hackers are right. If you buy a graphics card, you own the damn thing. It's not really nvidia's business to tell you whether you use it for graphical calculation, for coin mining or even use it as a paperweight should that strike your fancy.

Using software to slow down certain actions goes directly against the whole point of drivers. So no, I'm against this sort of shenanigans. And all gamers disagreeing with me can suck it up for all I care.


Well...that is to say: of course I understand it's sour that the prices of graphic cards go up faster than what you get in gaming oomph in return. That's the law of supply and demand for you. If it's any comfort: once the bitcoing peak has gone over its peak, people realise they're stuck below breaking-even point and abandon the mining gig, there'll be graphic cards aplenty for dirt cheap.

There's also that other hand to take into consideration. Allowing or okay-ing with nvidia's model isn't making the actual gaming graphic cards cheaper: it's instead artificially inflating the price of the "graphic cards+slowing down driver" package for miners. With different tweaks, marketeers can make it seem as if a same hardware graphics card has multiple values depending on who's the customer.
I'd call it a scam, but the reality is more that they're exploiting the market at the expense of their clients. And just because I'm not one of their clients doesn't mean I like it that they're getting screwed over.


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## Jayro (Mar 15, 2021)

Taleweaver said:


> Gamers probably won't like to hear it, but the hackers are right. If you buy a graphics card, you own the damn thing. It's not really nvidia's business to tell you whether you use it for graphical calculation, for coin mining or even use it as a paperweight should that strike your fancy.
> 
> Using software to slow down certain actions goes directly against the whole point of drivers. So no, I'm against this sort of shenanigans. And all gamers disagreeing with me can suck it up for all I care.
> 
> ...


As much as I fucking hate it, you're right... but Nvidia needs to start making dedicated Mining cards, and make a killing that way, so the rest up us gamers can get a card at MSRP, for gaming.


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## eyeliner (Mar 15, 2021)

Is it even profitable? Buying a high end card for a ridiculous price and relying in it's output to make money?


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## SAIYAN48 (Mar 15, 2021)

If I were to mine, I'd get a little over $2 a day, not worth it.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 15, 2021)

eyeliner said:


> Is it even profitable? Buying a high end card for a ridiculous price and relying in it's output to make money?


The miners seem to think so.

You have three ways of making money.

1) You have enough that you are your own miner and can take the lot (that is to say win the hashing round plus whatever fees are included in your chosen coin). Your costs being the cards plus things to put them in plus electricity (which can be quite a bit and thus why places where electricity is cheaper tend to get picked).
2) You add your power to a mining pool and get a cut depending upon how much work you put in. More likely to win a round with this but also have to split things.
3) You get some coins via 1 or 2 above and then hold onto them. I am sure we have all seen such things rising not only by 10% (which is a remarkably good year in the stock markets, and given most normal bank savings accounts struggle to keep up with inflation...) but by hundreds (123.79 for Ethereum this day last year, 1790 at time of writing on https://www.coindesk.com/price/ethereum and that is not even the best cryptocurrency rise in the last year)

You also have the cards after they cease to be as useful you can try to resell afterwards. Now I would not want a card that has been slammed 24/7 for months but others might.


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## leon315 (Mar 15, 2021)

I like stocks but avoid Bitcoin as pandemic, I always seem Bitcoins a gigantic "Ponzi scheme": the value grows as much whenever people keeps buying it, then at some point the bubble bursts leaving "panic and desperation" to everyone. the question is how long will this scam last??

All countries has GOLD reserve to back their own currency, even nowdays the Fiat money is no longer associated to GOLD reserve, but what backs BITCOIN? it's based on air and stupid people who buy it.  

At least now we finally know, why there's such NVIDIA  GPUs shortage: they all ended into Crypto mining  lmfaooo


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## Jokey_Carrot (Mar 15, 2021)

Brb guys gonna make big cash money mining doge coin on my geforce 2 mx 400.


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## lokomelo (Mar 15, 2021)

Nvidia dont care who is buying their shit, as long as they sell. The move they made locking some mining capacity via driver probability was more PR stunt than an actual attempt for ceasing mining on their hardware.

Probably the driver restrictions were designed to be broken, like the Analogue products that are made for be unlocked for piracy day 1.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Mar 16, 2021)

I hate to say this, but yes, it is their product, and they should be allowed to mine


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## anothertemper (Mar 16, 2021)

leon315 said:


> I like stocks but avoid Bitcoin as pandemic, I always seem Bitcoins a gigantic "Ponzi scheme": the value grows as much whenever people keeps buying it, then at some point the bubble bursts leaving "panic and desperation" to everyone. the question is how long will this scam last??
> 
> All countries has GOLD reserve to back their own currency, even nowdays the Fiat money is no longer associated to GOLD reserve, but what backs BITCOIN? it's based on air and stupid people who buy it.
> 
> At least now we finally know, why there's such NVIDIA  GPUs shortage: they all ended into Crypto mining  lmfaooo



I don't own any bitcoin either, but the value of bitcoin is greatly aided by the fact that there is a hard limit to the amount that will ever exist, unlike every fiat currency. It's no longer really useful as a "currency" but more as a storage of wealth.  Given its deflationary nature I would not be surprised to see it hit 100k per coin down the road.  As you say there is nothing backing the value of fiat currencies other than people's belief in their value.  The same applies to bitcoin.


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## leon315 (Mar 16, 2021)

anothertemper said:


> I don't own any bitcoin either, but the value of bitcoin is greatly aided by the fact that there is a hard limit to the amount that will ever exist, unlike every fiat currency. It's no longer really useful as a "currency" but more as a storage of wealth.  Given its deflationary nature I would not be surprised to see it hit 100k per coin down the road.  As you say there is nothing backing the value of fiat currencies other than people's belief in their value.  The same applies to bitcoin.


Gold reserve backs ur country, ur country backs its own currency. Crypto hasn't both of two: it isn't back by neither GOLD or any nations.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 16, 2021)

leon315 said:


> Gold reserve backs ur country, ur country backs its own currency. Crypto hasn't both of two: it isn't back by neither GOLD or any nations.


Most countries don't have much in the way of gold vs their m2 money supply. In fact they pulled a reverse alchemy and traded away most of their gold for lead and instead things are backed with that, surrounded by nice brass jackets.


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## AkikoKumagara (Mar 16, 2021)

leon315 said:


> Gold reserve backs ur country, ur country backs its own currency. Crypto hasn't both of two: it isn't back by neither GOLD or any nations.


I mean, it has value in the same way other possessions do. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. There's no inherent value in most things, just what people tell us the value is.


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## leon315 (Mar 16, 2021)

Sophie-bear said:


> I mean, it has value in the same way other possessions do. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. There's no inherent value in most things, just what people tell us the value is.


yep, just like a PONZI scheme


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## Viri (Mar 16, 2021)

So, Nvidia plans to put DRM into their GPUs? lol

I'm sure that'll go over well, and will totally never get hacked.


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## KatherineMackenzie (Apr 27, 2021)

This is a big problem for gamers nowadays. I also had this problem when I wanted to build myself a new PC. I couldn't find the latest Nvidia graphic cards because all of them were bought by the cryptocurrency miners, and if I could find one on other sources, it was at a very high price. This is why I hate cryptocurrency miners. I also make money n cryptocurrency but all I do is invest. For example, the last investment I made was in a Chinese cryptocurrency that is the only cryptocurrency approved by the Chinese government.
________________
https://yuanpaygroup.com


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## Seliph (Apr 27, 2021)

Either way people who just want to play video games lose lol and in the grand scheme we all lose anyway. Either GPUs end up costing more or we get artificially handicapped GPUs, neither situation is ideal. In addition, mining farms are obviously terrible for the environment, and increased production of graphics cards is awful in general. The materials used to create GPUs are sourced off the backs of foreign exploited slave/sweatshop labor and more and more GPUs end up as unusable e-waste as they're pushed to their limits and used up and discarded into landfills. More and more waste and destruction accumulate due to this shitty practice all for imaginary strings of code that we decide hold value. Nothing productive is being made and mining is a horrendous waste of resources that could be better used in other ways in my opinion.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 28, 2021)

I think seliph once described it pretty well:


			
				Seliph said:
			
		

> Bitcoin??? More like BITCHcoin


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## Seliph (Apr 28, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> I think seliph once described it pretty well:


I don't even remember saying that but helllllll yeah


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 28, 2021)

Seliph said:


> I don't even remember saying that but helllllll yeah


me trying to remember what i learned in class vs me remembering stupid shit other people said on the internet


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## Subtle Demise (Apr 29, 2021)

leon315 said:


> Gold reserve backs ur country, ur country backs its own currency. Crypto hasn't both of two: it isn't back by neither GOLD or any nations.


USD is blood money. Backed by the oil trade, which is propped up by endless wars in the Middle East. Now that the government is spending trillions every month or so, they have to print more to offset the spending. This means that there is no scarcity, and thus inherently no value whatsoever. The only thing keeping it valid with other nations is the threat of military invasion.

Cryptos however do have a hard limit as to how many can exist. Once they are all mined, they become scarce and thus have value.


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## leon315 (Apr 29, 2021)

Subtle Demise said:


> USD is blood money. Backed by the oil trade, which is propped up by endless wars in the Middle East. Now that the government is spending trillions every month or so, they have to print more to offset the spending. This means that there is no scarcity, and thus inherently no value whatsoever. The only thing keeping it valid with other nations is the threat of military invasion.
> 
> Cryptos however do have a hard limit as to how many can exist. Once they are all mined, they become scarce and thus have value.


you know i hate Cryptomining for other reason: there go all 3090 cards and if you want one 3090 u have to buy from orphan scalpers!

And Bitcoin is back-ed by AIR and how many people want them.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 6, 2021)

THEY are scum and ruining the video card industry. gone are the days when you can get a good deal on a video card to upgrade. FUCKING MINERS SCUM! hope crypto falls real soon i'm praying for the day when it happens. your beanie baby day will come mark my words!


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## Jayro (Dec 6, 2021)

Linus showed a new video of Nvidias new crypto-mining cards made from stripped down Ampere chipsets, and it's impressive. I am hoping these new crypto cards will drive prices back down to MSRP, once this fake "chip shortage" bullshit is over with. (It only takes 12 days to grow silicon ingots for chips. I've done it at SolarWorld USA. The shortage is proven fake, as there is NO shortage of silicon in the world.)


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## LeonTheo02 (Dec 16, 2021)

Crypto miners buying up all the newer gaming GPUs has really been a  big pain for many... I cant upgrade my current GPU for a reasonable price just because some people want to make lots of money by wasting lots of power...

Its crazy enough that buying a prebuilt currently is cheaper than building your own, lets hope this does not continue on for much longer!


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