# thaddius' Console Roast 2014 Edition - Round 13



## thaddius (May 15, 2014)

Welcome back to _thaddius’ Console Roast 2014 Edition_. For those of you who are not aware this is a poll where you, the GBATemp user, get to vote on what GBATemp thinks is the worst console ever is. For more information check out the Rules section below.

*Recap:*
Oh man. You guys hated last week's winner which was:





The SNK Neo Geo X! Congratulations SNK! Your poor excuse for a handheld caught the attention of GBATemp and made (at least 50% of) them mad! I can't say I expected anything else.

Once again the mentally ill of the board voted nonsensically for what are obviously great systems. I'm not surprised, but the 3DS and Vita deserve better. At least it was under 20% of you. Maybe I should point out that just because there's an option on the poll doesn't mean at least one person has to vote for it.

So what could be in store this week? Maybe we'll find out after we read the rules no one ever reads.

*Rules:*


Spoiler



There can only be one!

Each week I pit each console generation against itself to determine what the worst console of that generation was. Updates will hopefully be up every Thursday from now till the end.

We’re going to work our way up through consoles and handhelds until we reach the current generation. Once that’s all done, we’ll determine the worst console and the worst handheld. From there we choose the definitive GBATemp-approved WORST CONSOLE EVER.

Your only job, Mr. or Ms. GBATemper, is to cast your vote for what you think the worst of the generation is. Please try to do some research, watch some videos, maybe play a few of these games on a (completely legitimate) emulator, and you just might learn a little about the weird amorphous blob that is video game history. But I can't (and won't) keep you from just shooting from the uninformed hip. You're also encouraged to explain your choice in the form of a response to this topic. 

In the event of a tie, I (Sir thaddius prigg) will cast the deciding vote. It is my Roast after all...

The Generations are taken from Wikipedia as I've deemed that to be an appropriate neutral third party. I understand if you might have some concerns that I've put things in the wrong generation in your opinion, but I'm not too concerned about that. Generations are murky constructs at best and are based on arbitrary distinctions made by outsiders as post hoc rationalizations that don't mean anything to anyone anyway.

If I left out/included a certain console/handheld you think does/doesn't belong there I'm probably not going to include/not include them anyway. Basically don't take any of this too seriously. I'm not going to change the polls based on your opinion of them. I also can't change the polls once I've created them. The fact that people keep telling me to change things means that no one reads this but whatever. It's not like anyone cares about what I have to say. 

Aggressive discussion is allowed, but please try to keep within the rules of the forums. Just try to have fun and don’t be a jerk, k?


Enough of that crap, time to get started!

*Intro:*
So we’ve slogged through all the handhelds, and we’ve done almost all the consoles. The only thing left is the current gen. Now this is almost an exercise in futility - the battle lines are barely drawn, and those that are surround fan boy camps. But whatever. It wouldn’t be that thaddius’ Console Roast without more ambiguity.

I really hope this doesn’t devolve into too rough a discussion. You guys are (presumably) old enough to know what you’re doing though.

*This Week's Challengers are:*

*The Nintendo Wii U*




Rough start again. Will you ever get anything right, Nintendo? I suppose the only difference between this and the Wii and 3DS is that it hasn’t had it’s upswing yet. It may not even have one.

In an effort to apparently turn your TV into a DS Nintendo slapped a touch screen onto a controller. Personally the offscreen play functionality of the Wii U is a life saver whenever my sister-in-law comes over (which is often) and stays in the basement where the TV is. It’s honestly a very good selling point for the Wii U.

The Wii U is apparently underpowered and will never have the capabilities of the other current gen systems, but its games still manage to look great. And it has Mario, Zelda, and Super Smash Bros games on it so you can’t go wrong. Also Virtual Console! Too bad you have to pay ~$1 to transfer Wii VC games onto it but at least there’s a discount. Now if only they’d give you cross-buy capabilities like Sony does.

It’s way too early to call so just vote for this one if you hate Nintendo I guess.

*The Microsoft Xbox One*




It’s the third Xbox so it makes perfect sense that you’d call it the Xbox One. I’ve heard that it’s called ‘One’ because it’s supposed to be all your entertainment solutions rolled into a single device. Sadly it doesn’t play Nintendo or Sony games so the name is already inaccurate.

Bundled with Kinect 2 (at least initially?) and launching at $500US, the Xbox One plays Xbox One games only! None of your original Xbox, Xbox 360, or XBLA games will work on this machine. As an avid collector of games this bugs me a tad. I’m beginning to understand that backwards compatibility is not as important to others as it is to me. 

Anyway I don’t really have much else to say about this thing. It’s not doing anything new or crazy. The only negatives are the price and lack of backwards compatibility (which limits the games, obviously). Basically it’s too early to call, but I’m making you vote on it anyway. 

Both Xbox entries have been chosen as the worst of their generation so far so I vaguely wonder about this one. If you got a hate on for Microsoft and spell their name with a dollar sign then I guess this is the one for you to vote for.

*The OUYA*




Oh man. If you thought Android handheld gaming was the future wait until you see just how shitty Android console gaming is.

Getting its initial investment from crowd funding website KickStarter, the OUYA sprang into the public consciousness only because it was a bit of an oddity. Using its own proprietary GUI and store the OUYA doesn’t have some of the openness that people love about Android phones (unless you hack it), but it does have a good selection of local co-op party games. The OUYA has the unique ability to use controllers from other consoles like the Xbox 360 and the PS3, which you’ll probably end up using because you can’t stand the pack-in controller.

Apparently it’s not so bad as a media centre, but there are so many consoles styling themselves as one it’s a tough sell. And if you don’t have a hacked Wii it’s a smashing good emulator machine (because you need another one of those…).

As a developer I enjoyed this just as much as I did the Nvidia Shield - it's easy to work with and it gives you an opportunity to see what your games will look like on that kind of platform very quickly. But I have a feeling that won't amount to much for you lay folk.

*The Sony PlayStation 4*




I don’t even know what to say about the PS4. Just like the Xbone it isn’t doing anything to distinguish itself from its predecessor apart from having newer computery bits. It still retains some of the motion control stuff that was so popular with the kids last generation, and it’ll run Netflix just as well as everything else these days. It does have a nicer controller that its predecessors though.

One really cool thing is owning a Vita and a PS4 and using its Remote Play feature. Sort of like the Wii U’s offscreen play you can play your PS4 games on your Vita over Wifi or the internet. The major differences here is the buy-in for the Sony solution is significantly higher than Nintendo’s as you need two expensive systems, and that not all games will be compatible with Remote Play on the Vita (hopefully it’ll be more than the PS3!). But at least the Vita is an autonomous handheld you can take with you that has its own games which semi-justifies the price. And Cross-buy with the Vita is a great, although it's mostly for indie titles.

Oh yeah, and no backwards compatibility, even with PSOne games which boggles my mind although there are rumours that that will change. Maybe we’ll hear more about that Playstation Now stuff soon too (although it’s apparently not coming to Canada ).

Anyway, once again it’s way too early for me to even choose. If you super hate Sony this is the one for you.

*Outro:*
And there you have it! The Eighth Generation of Consoles! Wait… We’re out of stuff to do… So what do we do now?

*Current Standings:*


Spoiler


----------



## Gahars (May 15, 2014)

I think including the Ouya in this list, let alone calling it a console, probably gives it way too much credit.

Of the actual consoles, I would say the Wii U is the worst (I know, what a shock). The Gamepad is a needless, tacked-on gimmick, the game selection is pretty weak, and its future is looking bleaker by the month. I'm not fan of the Xbox One, but at least that will have a steady supply of third party titles, and it seems that Microsoft is actually taking the criticism to heart. Of the three, the PS4 is most certainly the bee's knees, the cat's meow, and the schnauzer's wowza all rolled together.

But yeah, with the Ouya in the mix... well, this isn't exactly tough.


----------



## thaddius (May 15, 2014)

Heh. Heaven forbid the worst console poll would have the worst console on it.


----------



## CompassNorth (May 15, 2014)

There are other android game consoles than the OUYA such as the gamestick and the Mad Catz M.O.J.O.   
Not including them and just the OUYA is weird.

Gonna go vote for the Xbone, even though it dropped in price it's still underpowered, well so is the Wii U, but at least the Wii U is innovative.


----------



## Nathan Drake (May 15, 2014)

I was going to immediately vote Wii U for a number of really obvious reasons, but seeing the Ouya there, well, really, how could a person not vote for it?


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (May 15, 2014)

Ehh...I almost voted for the Ouya, but then I remembered it's not a console. lelel

In truth, I also didn't vote for the Ouya because at least it has more than 5 games worthwhile to play. Granted, they're Android games, ports of older games and emulators, but that's still more fun than anything the Wii U has out for it now. I can honestly say the only games that interest me that are on the Wii U are Smash bros and X and that's pretty much it. I honestly can't think of any games worthwhile for me future or current that would make me drop $300 on a console. When the Wii U inevitably dies and drops to $100 in a bargain bin, then I'll probably grab it. Otherwise, meh.


----------



## Joe88 (May 15, 2014)

I think the ouya is only in there to stop people for voting for xb1...
rather pointless to waste a week on this if you already know people are going to vote for the android stick...


----------



## EZ-Megaman (May 15, 2014)

The Steam box didn't make it as an option? I guess it's more of a PC since there are different versions, but the 3DO was like that too. Though I guess the box has the same library too...

Anyway, I voted for the PS4 only because my cousin's was dead on arrival (though we thankfully got a refund for it) and I don't have any experience with the others yet.


----------



## DinohScene (May 15, 2014)

Ouya.

Android just advances to fast to have it as a home console.
Not only that but old game ports and angry birds?
Eh, no.
Ouya only games are.. non existent or are only a few.


----------



## Dork (May 15, 2014)

We're doing eighth gen this early in the game?


----------



## HtheB (May 15, 2014)

Which trolls voted for PS4?...


----------



## frogboy (May 15, 2014)

Ooooh, yeah... I see how this poll's gonna go down.


----------



## mightymuffy (May 15, 2014)

Awww, you've just gone and ruined it by adding OUYA, for shame! Shouldn't you also add the Gamestick, Amazons new thingie, etc, too? Sheesh..... well I had to vote Ouya out of that list, but the vote that really counts, well that goes the Xbox One for sure at this moment


----------



## emigre (May 15, 2014)

I voted Wii U even though I'm buying one later this month.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (May 15, 2014)

Going to abstain. Seems kinda premature to be voting on this. 8th Gen just basically started.


----------



## Langin (May 15, 2014)

It's too early in the lifespan as everyone says, but I voted for Ouya. Because it's not much of a real gaming console at all with a horrible launch and rarely support from any side I think it's easy to say it's the worst console. Any nut-head saying any of the other three are bad are rather dumb. Each console except Ouya has great potential(even de Wii U yes)


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (May 15, 2014)

I voted for the Xbox One but was torn between that and the Ouya... Probably should have voted Ouya but right now as of this poll the Xbox One is still pretty hard up for games and they haven't implemented the changes that will make it slightly better. 

But as other have said it's too early to tell what console will end up being the worst.

Nintendo could in theory release all crap games making the Wii-U really bad as first party games are a large part of the reason to get one, making the Wii-U the worst.

Sony could in theory do a bunch of anti consumer antics and release firmwares that remove features and block used game sales and pretty much make life miserable for the consumer, making it the worst console. 

Microsoft could in theory spy on everyone with it's all seeing eye making everyone the NSA's bitch, making the Xbox One the worst console.

Then there are literally 10,000 other variables that no one could predict. Early death of companies, bargain bin consoles, consoles pulled from shelves due to IP violations, big name games with big disappointment, firmware update mass bricks, hacking, Russia nuking the US, and so many more.


----------



## orcid (May 15, 2014)

This roast makes only sense because you included the OUYA. It is and will be the worst console.
Otherwise it is far too early, because you can't solely judge a console by hardware specs.
At the moment without looking into the future the Wii U is the best console. In the future the PS4 will very probably be the best.


----------



## KingVamp (May 15, 2014)

I smell smoke.

Having to pay online and fear of old policies coming back from prior and reveal of the Xbox 180. As well as not being a fan of Xbox consoles from the get go. (Not that wouldn't play on one.)

Ouya, while not as bad as people were making, it is not my type of console and this "OUYA Everywhere" pretty much defeating the purpose.

So... I guess Ouya.


----------



## GameWinner (May 15, 2014)

It's too early. I guess Wii U?


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 15, 2014)

Aw jeez if there wasn't Ouya I'd have gone with Xbox One as it's the least I like of the three (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) but if ya gonna include mobile "consoles" then you might as well list the whole bunch them dontcha think?



emigre said:


> I voted Wii U even though I'm buying one later this month.


 
You've been saying this for a while now. lol


----------



## Foxi4 (May 15, 2014)

The Wii U dodged a bullet the size of a train thanks to including the OUYA aka "every Android microconsole ever".


----------



## Vipera (May 15, 2014)

*Wii U* Mario Kart machine
*Xbox One* Expensive multimedia player
*OUYA* LMAO
*PlayStation 4* cheap proprietary PC

Oh boy, I remember way too well what happened when the OUYA was running its Kickstarter: thousands of hivemind fedorable virgins started smugging all over the internet as if they were some kind of new prick specie chanting over the "miracle" that was Android and that the OUYA would have destroyed all the other "toys". It was as big as le Linux hivemind when Ubuntu became popular around teenagers.
Now, I know we shouldn't judge companies by their shitty fanbase, but the OUYA developers marched on this pretty hard (warning: gross):


Spoiler







Then, like a serious company, they declined any responsibility and said that they didn't make it once it got heavily criticized by people. And the system itself? It doesn't even stand up by itself because it keeps falling down, the controller sucks and the games suffer from performance issues.
Then of course, le hivemind (the ones that still insisted) changed their speech in "b-but we can play GTA3". Buy one console for one game, sure.
"b-but machine for the emulators!" Hahaha NO.
"b-but multimedia box!" Even WD makes better stuff than that.

Bottomline: the OUYA had too much of an impact to not consider it as a console. The Wii U has no games I'm interested in, the Xbox One is useless in Italy and the PS4 is offering nothing more than my PC does. OUYA wins and may all le hivemind burn.
As for the ones that believed in the project without smugging all over the place: I'm sorry for you. Maybe you'll get luckier with the Arduino.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 15, 2014)

Vipera said:


> Xbox One Expensive multimedia player


 
That doesn't even handle MKVs or FLACs.


----------



## chavosaur (May 15, 2014)

Jesus fucking Christ I'm so happy the ouya is here to steer clear of my beloved Xbox One ;O; 
However it also means I don't have to put my vote toward the Wii U. I have faith in the Wii u to pick up steam at some point, and I already have a lot of tourneys planned with MK8 so hopefully I can still continue to enjoy it.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 15, 2014)

This is so anticlimactic... OUYA for sure.

Though if the OUYA weren't there, I would vote Wii U for sure... and I'm speaking as an avid Nintendo fan who owns one (and doesn't own a PS4 or Xbone, I may add).


----------



## Hyro-Sama (May 16, 2014)

Geez. The Xbox One is seriously tying with the Wii U? Even after they removed the Kinect? Can M$ ever win?


----------



## matpower (May 16, 2014)

I think it is a bit too early for this poll, but anyway, I vote on OUYA, it is useless and the devs thinks they can pull an Apple Store instance with that thing.
To be honest, I don't like the PS4 controller, maybe it is the lack of a START/SELECT button, RIP classic features.


----------



## Necron (May 16, 2014)

Too early to make this gen. Still, voted for the Ouya.


----------



## tbgtbg (May 16, 2014)

I dispute that the OUYA is even a console, but if it stops Wii U from unfairly running away with the votes, great.


----------



## matpower (May 16, 2014)

I love how the Wii U got less votes than the XBone. 
GO WII U GO!


----------



## cdoty (May 16, 2014)

Just to clarify, that is the XBox One with the Kinect, right? 



CompassNorth said:


> There are other android game consoles than the OUYA such as the gamestick and the Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
> Not including them and just the OUYA is weird.


 
The NVidia Shield, from the last generation, came out after the Ouya.




Gahars said:


> I think including the Ouya in this list, let alone calling it a console, probably gives it way too much credit.


 
If you think the Ouya is bad, give the GameStick a try. I think I could find a chinese GBA rip off that would run better.

The Ouya launch was pretty bad, but the system has improved quite a bit since then. A number of the games are as good as XBox Live Arcade or PSN games for 1/3 to 1/2 the price. Minigore 2 and Heroes of the Loot are two of my current favorites.


----------



## matpower (May 16, 2014)

NVIDIA Shield isn't the last generation, it is just separated from Consoles Generation.
It is on the same generation as the 3DS and Vita.


----------



## markehmus (May 16, 2014)

backed ouya as soon as i heard about it waited a year to get one - pretty disapointed by it- least used console in my house and i even have a virtualboy

edit :
oh yeah i love my wiiu and ps4 , great consoles, even if no one else likes wiiu


----------



## Nah3DS (May 16, 2014)

can I vote all the consoles?


----------



## Gahars (May 16, 2014)

NahuelDS said:


> can I vote all the consoles?


 

I think that defeats the purpose of "*worst*."


----------



## Taleweaver (May 16, 2014)

I voted xbox one. Let me explain my reasons...

Yes, the ouya would have been the obvious choice. It's so underpowered that some smartphones are better and the add Vipera showed is more likely to turn people away from ouya than toward it. But when you compare it to other 'bottom price'-consoles, it's not bad at all. You can laugh all you want, but my local game shop sells these things. For a kickstarter program, that's already quite successful. I admit the launch wasn't exactly great, but again: it's not exactly fair to directly compare it to companies who have a budget that's many dozen times as big.

The PS4 is the clear winner thus far. Ironically by not screwing up things: it doesn't have a retarded name, it doesn't have a huge paywall and doesn't rely on fancy gimmicks nobody cares about (though that as well is debatable...is that mousepad on the controller used for anything?).
The wiiu screwed up that third party support they promised. May be bad relations, may be because they're (still) following their own standards instead of the industry's, but in any case: it has become yet another nintendo franchise machine. It's still quality, mind you. If you want to buy a console for your kids, this would be the one. Unfortunately, I didn't bought it for kids (I'm from Belgium...I keep them in my cellar  ).

And the xbox one...guys...you DO realise that the xbone ships with a useless peripheral that costs as much as the ouya, right? Yes...I know: they're going to ship consoles without it now. But does it really take a painfully bad E3 presentation and half a year of complaints about that thing to notice this? Also...just how many exclusives are worth it? Most of them also come to PS4, and if not there to the PC. And for what remains you can buy ten games on the ouya. And probably drag more fun out of it.


----------



## chavosaur (May 16, 2014)

Taleweaver said:


> And the xbox one...guys...you DO realise that the xbone ships with a useless peripheral that costs as much as the ouya, right? Yes...I know: they're going to ship consoles without it now. But does it really take a painfully bad E3 presentation and half a year of complaints about that thing to notice this? Also...just how many exclusives are worth it? Most of them also come to PS4, and if not there to the PC. And for what remains you can buy ten games on the ouya. And probably drag more fun out of it.


It's a useless peripheral in your eyes as much as the Gamepad is a useless peripheral in my eyes. The gamepad adds about as much as my Kinect adds to the depth and need of my games. And I own both. Give me a controller any day (a normal one that isnt a clunky plastic eyesore.) But I still use the Kinect more on average for the ease of navigation.
And the exclusivity thing can be said of PS4 as well at the moment. They're almost evenly matched in exclusives at this current point, that argument is a load.
Exclusives that are worth it? How about Forza, rated best racing game of last year? How about Dead Rising 3, the most entertaining hack and slash on the platform right now? What about the future of Halo, Gears of war, sunset overdrive, quantum break, etc? It's all based on your preference. And I believe we've said before that it's the MIX of exclusives and third party that keep a console great. PS4 and XBOX ONE have both of these.
And which two are missing the great balance?
The Ouya and the Wii U. But of COURSE, we know what everyone else isn't going to vote for, which is another reason why I'm glad the Ouya is here. It funnels out all the bias in the poll.


----------



## codezer0 (May 16, 2014)

For once I can say, all of these are deserving of the award in their own way.

The WiiU has been an unmitigated disaster. The tablet controller has turned *off* a lot more players and devs than it's turned on. Nintendo's business decisions toward how much freedom it has accessing internal/external storage directly hampers collectors, and Nintendo couldn't be phoning it in any harder with the selection of Michael Bay shlock that they've shoved on us since launch. When even the first party games are bad, then you know something is wrong. And yet, Iwata seems to have the audacity to blame us because they have yet to make something worth buying for it. This coming from the same xenophobic asshole that refused to export Mother 3? *Expletive* him with a rusty chainsaw.

The Sony P$4? oh yes, let's just remove *all* the backward compatibility all together, just so they can re-sell games at $80 a pop or something heinous in some collection re-release like they tried to do with neutered PS3's. Honestly, the only reason I'd even halfway consider dropping money on this piece of crap is out of fear they'll find some way to neuter the PS4 even _worse_ on a slim version, because as we all know, Sony revisionizes stuff like it's a sexual fetish for them. "oh yessss! make it smaller! weaker! impotent fools!" Krazy Ken and Kaz should commit hara kiri and get it over with. Let's not forget all the post-launch lies, like how they were going to make it easier for people to record their footage, when in practice *every game has that ICT* crap so that recording with any external gear is flat out impossible. How about the stupid light bar on the controllers, that is supposedly meant for a VR add-on that will very likely flop?

Xbox one? I need only point to the _first_ unveiling to prove what they did wrong. There is far more, but that first reveal of the system managed to do more damage than if they'd had Krazy Ken Kutaragi talk for two hours about the PS4. Probably the only thing I could say positively about the system would have to be that the controller in my few sessions with it really does feel fantastic. I'm still angry/upset that they chose not to address BC at all. This goes for both Microsoft and Sony in this regard... without even BC for digital purchases, I have less of a reason to adopt the new system, or for that matter, buy any new titles because as soon as the old system dies, it's money thrown away.

The Ouya? *this* is the thing that had the audacity to portray itself as a console? THIS is the thing that brought umpteen billion clones so people could play angry birds on their TV and charge us $30-50 for the privilege?

All of these systems are worthy of the dubious honor. But there is a special place in hell for everyone involved with the Ouya.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (May 16, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> *(1)The Sony P$4? oh yes, let's just remove all the backward compatibility all together, just so they can re-sell games at $80 a pop or something heinous in some collection re-release like they tried to do with neutered PS3's.* Honestly, the only reason I'd even halfway consider dropping money on this piece of crap is out of fear they'll find some way to neuter the PS4 even _worse_ on a slim version, because as we all know, Sony revisionizes stuff like it's a sexual fetish for them. *(2)"oh yessss! make it smaller! weaker! impotent fools!"* Krazy Ken and Kaz should commit hara kiri and get it over with.* (3)Let's not forget all the post-launch lies, like how they were going to make it easier for people to record their footage, when in practice every game has that ICT crap so that recording with any external gear is flat out impossible.* How about the stupid light bar on the controllers, that is supposedly meant for a VR add-on that will very likely flop?


 
(1)Too bad there isn't any kind of instance of them overpricing their older games...ever. Also, their backwards compatibility service will be called PS Now, where you can gamestream PS3 (and probably others, we still don't have much info since it's still in beta) to PS4/PS3/Vita/Some TVs. It's rumored to have both a subscription where each month they'll give games like PS+ (it's possible they'll integrate it with PS+, but as I said we have little info) or you can rent/buy the games for what I would assume would be the same cost as digital versions.


Spoiler



Would you look how expensive these PS2 classics are OMG SO OVERPRICED WTF





As you can see, $15 is the highest price they charge for PS2 classics. PS1 games are something like $6.


(2) Unless you're referring to removing the PS2 hardware from the phat PS3s to the slims, then I have no idea what you're talking about since there's no performance-based changes with any of the PS3 revisions besides small changes with the blu-ray drives and cooling.

(3)http://wololo.net/2014/04/30/playstation-4-firmware-1-70-is-now-available/ < Sony disabled HDCP protection in this update, y'know, like they said they would.


----------



## TheCasketMan (May 16, 2014)

matpower said:


> I think it is a bit too early for this poll, but anyway, I vote on OUYA, it is useless and the devs thinks they can pull an Apple Store instance with that thing.
> To be honest, I don't like the PS4 controller, maybe it is the lack of a START/SELECT button, RIP classic features.


 

It has a start and select button. The select button is pushing down on the touchpad.


----------



## MaartenMx (May 16, 2014)

Langin said:


> It's too early in the lifespan as everyone says, but I voted for Ouya. Because it's not much of a real gaming console at all with a horrible launch and rarely support from any side I think it's easy to say it's the worst console. Any nut-head saying any of the other three are bad are rather dumb. Each console except Ouya has great potential(even de Wii U yes)


 
Especially the Wii U!
--

This Gen with such a "small" graphics upgrade for PS and XBOX compared to the great gap between previous generations. Maybe this will finally let people choose gameplay over graphics.

PS4 is only a hype because of the "great" graphics while it gets easily outperformed by a 450$ PC. I'm not saying the gameplay is bad on the other consoles, I just think PS4 is too much focused on graphics while XBOX one, well.. (TV, TV, TV!) Ouya is just shit.

-1 Ouya
-1 Xbox one
0 PS4
+1 Wii U


----------



## matpower (May 16, 2014)

TheCasketMan said:


> It has a start and select button. The select button is pushing down on the touchpad.


Well, I mean a physical button for them. 
I haven't had much experience with a PS4 so far, I only played it once in my uncle's house.


----------



## calmwaters (May 16, 2014)

All right: read the second sentence under the rules. The word I want us to focus on is the last one: "was". This generation is not over. We can't determine which console was the worst; we can only speculate. But I do think that if Nintendo doesn't do something that will let them recover some of the half a billion dollars they reported to have lost, then they will most likely lose this generation. Please, I appeal to you as a gamer: go out and buy a Wii U if you haven't already (unless you're financially challenged like Nintendo). Nintendo needs the support and the best candidates for this are the fans.


----------



## GameWinner (May 16, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> The Sony P$4? oh yes, let's just remove *all* the backward compatibility all together, just so they can re-sell games at $80 a pop or something heinous in some collection re-release like they tried to do with neutered PS3's. Honestly, the only reason I'd even halfway consider dropping money on this piece of crap is out of fear they'll find some way to neuter the PS4 even _worse_ on a slim version, because as we all know, Sony revisionizes stuff like it's a sexual fetish for them. "oh yessss! make it smaller! weaker! impotent fools!" Krazy Ken and Kaz should commit hara kiri and get it over with. Let's not forget all the post-launch lies, like how they were going to make it easier for people to record their footage, when in practice *every game has that ICT* crap so that recording with any external gear is flat out impossible. How about the stupid light bar on the controllers, that is supposedly meant for a VR add-on that will very likely flop?


Do you like do research before posting something? Because it doesn't seem like you do. At all.


----------



## TheCasketMan (May 16, 2014)

matpower said:


> Well, I mean a physical button for them.
> I haven't had much experience with a PS4 so far, I only played it once in my uncle's house.


 

Yeah, the touchpad is both tactile and physical. You can use it to drag things with your finger like a touchscreen, but it is also physically clickable like a mouse button. It is a pretty neat feature for a controller and stategy games would work well with it.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 16, 2014)

matpower said:


> I think it is a bit too early for this poll, but anyway, I vote on OUYA, it is useless and the devs thinks they can pull an Apple Store instance with that thing.
> To be honest, I don't like the PS4 controller, maybe it is the lack of a START/SELECT button, RIP classic features.


 
The PS4 controller is pretty comfy, big and definitely comparable to an Xbox controller, despite they both have different layouts.

I wish PS4 had BC for PS1, PS3, PS3 and PSP to use the PS4 controller at its fullest rather than limited functions, it works for some games on PS3.


----------



## matpower (May 16, 2014)

Well, DualShock > Xbox Controllers IMO, just because I prefer Nintendo/Sony's d-pad layout. 
Also X360 D-Pad sucks in every way. >.>


----------



## Foxi4 (May 16, 2014)

Reading this thread is getting increasingly sad. People really don't do their homework, do they?


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Reading this thread is getting increasingly sad. People really don't do their homework, do they?


 
Sony could have made a Limited Edition PS4 for $600/$700 which there'd definitely be people buying it so at least people couldn't claim Sony didn't make a PS4 that played BC without being digitally streamed or whatever.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 16, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Sony could have made a Limited Edition PS4 for $600/$700 which there'd definitely be people buying it so at least people couldn't claim Sony didn't make a PS4 that played BC without being digitally streamed or whatever.


I don't think you understood their intention whatsoever, so I'll say what has been said a million times since the system's launch. Neither the Xbox 360 nor the PS3 are anywhere close to retiring - both systems received their budget iterations alongside the launch of their current generation siblings, the Xbox One and the PS4. If you have any interest in Xbox 360 and PS3 software, you just play them on those systems - they're going to be kept alive for the next 2 years at least and will become more and more affordable.

The reasons why there is no backwards compatibility on separate chips are very simple - it would convolute the PCB's, it would create cooling problems, it would inflate the price for adopters, it would make the system humongous and it would literally require both companies to come up with two separate designs of one system, one of these designs would sell poorly due to the entry price of $600+.

If you think that such a Deluxe edition would sell, okay, fine - perhaps it would sell a few units. I'm willing to wager that it wouldn't cover the cost of manufacturing it and the route Sony and Microsoft went, meaning releasing budget editions of their last generation systems, is a superior move. As it stands today, you can have both last and current generation compatibility for $399 + $250 = $649 if you still don't have a PS3/360 for whatever reason. Everybody else who already has those systems prefers to pay less, which is reflected by the mindblowing sales of both systems.


----------



## Gahars (May 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> If you think that such a Deluxe edition would sell, okay, fine - perhaps it would sell a few units. I'm willing to wager that it wouldn't cover the cost of manufacturing it and the route Sony and Microsoft went, meaning releasing budget editions of their last generation systems, is a superior move. As it stands today, you can have both last and current generation compatibility for $399 + $250 = $649 if you still don't have a PS3/360 for whatever reason. Everybody else who already has those systems prefers to pay less, which is reflected by the mindblowing sales of both systems.


 

Also... every dollar Sony spent on making one of these special PS4s would be a dollar not spent on making regular PS4s. The regular PS4s are in hot demand right now. Why would they waste the money and time on something that people, generally, aren't demanding and have clear alternatives to?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 16, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Also... every dollar Sony spent on making one of these special PS4s would be a dollar not spent on making regular PS4s. The regular PS4s are in hot demand right now. Why would they waste the money and time on something that people, generally, aren't demanding and have clear alternatives to?


Beause appeasing the BC fans is really important and this 1% fraction of the total userbase who considers this a make-or-break argument totally needs their attention*. 





*Not.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 16, 2014)

> If you think that such a Deluxe edition would sell, okay, fine - perhaps it would sell a few units.


That's the whole point of "Limited Edition". Make 20 or less and call it a day.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 16, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> That's the whole point of "Limited Edition". Make 20 or less and call it a day.


You don't seem to realize the amount of work making a _"deluxe edition"_ with additional CPU's and a firmware that makes use of them involves. It's not exactly like a paint job, we're talking about millions in sheer expenses just to make this thing, _"20 or less units"_ doesn't really cover that. They can't exactly put the two machines next to each other and chant _"kiss, kiss, kiss"_, hoping that a consolidated PCB cames out of this, they need to incorporate one console in the other, then create a manufacturing line specifically for that, write firmware for it, test it etc. - this kind of thing doesn't cost peanuts and if it's not going to rake in profit it's nonsensical to do it.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 16, 2014)

I get that it'd be expensive but it wouldn't be a complete loss for Sony as they'd make it in very small units and everyone knows that Nintendo World Championship cartridge alone costs thousands of dollars which you could buy a car with that money instead.

If there were a console to become rare and cost thousands then it'd be LE-PS4.

10-20 units aren't really a lot so perhaps they could allow people to bid how much they'd be willing to pay for it and we know how ridiculously high auctions can get. $2000..? Maybe, who knows.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (May 16, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> I get that it'd be expensive but it wouldn't be a complete loss for Sony as they'd make it in very small units and everyone knows that Nintendo World Championship cartridge alone costs thousands of dollars which you could buy a car with that money instead.
> 
> If there were a console to become rare and cost thousands then it'd be LE-PS4.
> 
> 10-20 units aren't really a lot so perhaps they could allow people to bid how much they'd be willing to pay for it and we know how ridiculously high auctions can get. $2000..? Maybe, who knows.


 
Or instead of paying $2000 for a console they could just, y'know, buy a PS3. Or 10 PS3s.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 16, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> I get that it'd be expensive but it wouldn't be a complete loss for Sony as they'd make it in very small units and everyone knows that Nintendo World Championship cartridge alone costs thousands of dollars which you could buy a car with that money instead.
> 
> If there were a console to become rare and cost thousands then it'd be LE-PS4.
> 
> 10-20 units aren't really a lot so perhaps they could allow people to bid how much they'd be willing to pay for it and we know how ridiculously high auctions can get. $2000..? Maybe, who knows.


They could price the system at $1.000.000 and _still_ lose money, you don't realize the sheer costs of creating a production line for this sort of thing or the cost of consolidating the two devices into one, it's R&D all over again and it just wouldn't work following the model you propose. The only way that kind of a system would sell would be selling it at a huge loss as a deluxe edition and neither Sony nor Microsoft wants to lose money on this sort of thing _(because inevitably they would lose money, and lots of it)_. It's the beginning of a new generation - either keep your old system to play your old games or move on. For all intents and purposes you should be happy that next generation systems are as cheap as they are rather than complaining. I personally wouldn't pay an extortionist price for a deluxe PS4 because _I already have a PS3_ so there's no point in me overpaying, I don't see how this is so hard to grasp.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 16, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> I get that it'd be expensive but it wouldn't be a complete loss for Sony as they'd make it in very small units and everyone knows that Nintendo World Championship cartridge alone costs thousands of dollars which you could buy a car with that money instead.
> 
> If there were a console to become rare and cost thousands then it'd be LE-PS4.
> 
> 10-20 units aren't really a lot so perhaps they could allow people to bid how much they'd be willing to pay for it and we know how ridiculously high auctions can get. $2000..? Maybe, who knows.


 
You realize those thousands of dollars that Nintendo World Championship is worth today doesn't go towards Nintendo whenever someone buys one from a collector or at a shop... right?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 16, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> You realize those thousands of dollars that Nintendo World Championship is worth today doesn't go towards Nintendo whenever someone buys one from a collector or at a shop... right?


I don't think he does, seeing that it was not a commercially sold product and the extortionist value comes from its limited run and is set solely by collectors... but hey, that's besides the point.


----------



## codezer0 (May 17, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> (1)Too bad there isn't any kind of instance of them overpricing their older games...ever. Also, their backwards compatibility service will be called PS Now, where you can gamestream PS3 (and probably others, we still don't have much info since it's still in beta) to PS4/PS3/Vita/Some TVs. It's rumored to have both a subscription where each month they'll give games like PS+ (it's possible they'll integrate it with PS+, but as I said we have little info) or you can rent/buy the games for what I would assume would be the same cost as digital versions.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


It is overpriced, when you have the physical disk sitting there in your hand and the system refuses to play it because it's "not compatible" but then $ony would happily (re)sell it to you for another hike.

Sadly the whole reason that I could never bring myself to buy any re-release (digital or otherwise) of _Final Fantasy VII_ for myself, is because I already spent $50 *three times* on the game originally, because Sony's shitty shoddy  manufacturing practices ruined two of my genuine copies. Hell, the whole reason I even started to look into modding and mod-chipping was *because* of how unreliable Play Stations were, and the fact that emulation of their systems is consistently terrible. I could get into how ridiculous some of the selections are, but I'll just leave that as a matter of taste. It especially irks me that Sony neutered the PS3 _because_ the firmware improvements to the full-BC models finally made it so that all three generations of games could play, and look gorgeous doing so.

And Game-streaming =/= put the same disc in it and play. Also, the cloud streaming, as we are all _painfully aware_ with OnLive and similar services, introduces additional input lag beyond what modern TV's do (when compared to the CRT's that a lot of these games were originally played on and built for). Some of these high def TV's being pushed on mooks in places like Best Buy and Fry's Electronics have almost a full 100ms of input lag, even on HDMI (and worse on any analog feed). I would hate to think of trying to play a timing-sensitive game like _Bust A Groove_ over a streaming service, no matter how ideal the conditions are. I already have to override how the PS3 handles scaling for PS1 games just to be able to play that game acceptably. And I don't trust them to put in any effort to compensate for this in any way with the re-released games.

There has yet to be a Sony console revision that _hasn't_ taken something out or made it worse. Funny enough, Microsoft's revisions are totally fine with me. Because unlike with the PlayStation, i could buy a 360 "E" right now, and - modding difficulty notwithstanding - I still can do everything with that system that I was able to do with a launch unit. Sure, some would prefer their JTAG/RGH units, but at the least it's not like Microsoft took away functionality from their revised Xboxes like Sony took away from every generation of PlayStation. It's been especially obvious with the PS2 and PS3 re-models that just made the 'new' model look cheaper and more fragile than the original.

As for 1.70 on PS4? It's about time they turned off that nonsense. But it makes them look stupid that they had to wait this long to push out an update for it when Microsoft apparently never implemented it on the Xbox One, or made it an opt-in rather than an opt-out.


----------



## Gahars (May 17, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> It is overpriced, when you have the physical disk sitting there in your hand and the system refuses to play it because it's "not compatible" but then $ony would happily (re)sell it to you for another hike.


 
By your logic, Sony is shitty because the PS4 can't play your VHS tapes.

Also, please stop spelling it as "$ony." Replacing the s's in a word with $'s ($ony, M$, etc.) is the argumentative equivalent of shitting your pants in public. It stinks, and it's just embarrassing to look at.


----------



## codezer0 (May 17, 2014)

After everything they've done to me, you should be glad I'm not calling them by what I _really_ feel about them and their business practices.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 17, 2014)

I don't understand why people _expect_ Sony or any other company to support media from obsolete devices. Grab any PS2 disc you own - does it say _"Compatible with PlayStation 3"_ or _"Compatible with PlayStation 4"_? No, it doesn't, it's a PS2 game. They're doing you a _service_ by re-releasing it on new hardware if it's not natively compatible so it's _to be expected_ that they'd want to be paid for said service. If you don't want to pay for a re-release, here's a thought - why did you get rid of our PS2 and kept the games? Here's another thought - in the event that you haven't, why are you complaining?

Backwards compatibility is like a cherry on top of a cake - it's nice if it's there, but if the cake is terrible, the cherry won't help much. I'd rather eat a delicious cake with no cherry than a stale piece of gingerbread and a cherry to wipe my tears with.

*EDIT: *In the spirit of _"$ony"_ and _"Micro$oft"_ juvenile naming scheme, I propose _"Nint€ndo"_ as a countermeasure.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 17, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> In the spirit of _"$ony"_ and _"Micro$oft"_ juvenile naming scheme, I propose _"Nint€ndo"_ as a countermeasure.


 
Nintendoe$n't. (Yeah I know, it's not quite Nintendon't, but it's close enough).

Also, $ega.

Also, Gahar$.


----------



## Nah3DS (May 17, 2014)

I voted Xbox One because it doesn't have any games that I want to play.
It's just that simple guys.


----------



## codezer0 (May 17, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't understand why people _expect_ Sony or any other company to support media from obsolete devices. Grab any PS2 disc you own - does it say _"Compatible with PlayStation 3"_ or _"Compatible with PlayStation 4"_? No, it doesn't, it's a PS2 game. They're doing you a _service_ by re-releasing it on new hardware if it's not natively compatible so it's _to be expected_ that they'd want to be paid for said service. If you don't want to pay for a re-release, here's a thought - why did you get rid of our PS2 and kept the games? Here's another thought - in the event that you haven't, why are you complaining?
> 
> Backwards compatibility is like a cherry on top of a cake - it's nice if it's there, but if the cake is terrible, the cherry won't help much. I'd rather eat a delicious cake with no cherry than a stale piece of gingerbread and a cherry to wipe my tears with.
> 
> *EDIT: *In the spirit of _"$ony"_ and _"Micro$oft"_ juvenile naming scheme, I propose _"Nint€ndo"_ as a countermeasure.


Considering how many playstations I had to go through with each generation, backward compatibility is practically mandatory to make it worth its over-inflated price tag.

Second, I can attest under oath that playing PS1 & PS2 games on a PS3 is definitely a markedly better experience than when played on an actual PS2, even when using the exact same cables. I even went out of my way to put both systems on Component and 480p just to make sure that it wasn't just some trick... the reality is that on my 60gig, the PS1 and PS2 games I do play on it _do look better_.

They don't load better than a PS2 game on HDLoader, but... I'm still waiting for a Cobra'd REBUG firmware to help solve that, and finally retire the PS2, and restore an available set of inputs so I can use it for something else, like possibly a future modded console. I recently got some soldering tools, and the prospect of a potentially super-easy way to bring component video to some of the retro consoles is too tantalizing to resist.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 17, 2014)

I'm still undecided between the Wii U and the OUYA. For all intents and purposes, the OUYA is obviously the worst out of all four since it's an Android microconsole with little dedicated software worth mentioning... but on the other hand, it delivered _exactly_ what it promised and it's generally well-received by its fans. The Wii U on the other hand is a disaster - it's in the big boys league but it fell on its face and shows no signs of recovery, that's a far more spectacular failure. My vote probably won't change anything anyways, just giving my reasons for thinking about those two.


----------



## Smuff (May 17, 2014)

It has to be the Ouya.

Unfortunately this does not mean that I have any desire at all to own any of the other three. The only one that comes close to making me think about a Christmas splurge is the WiiU as I have a Mario crazy 4 year old in the house who bugs me about it every five minutes 

So far this generation is neck-and-neck "meh".


----------



## Taleweaver (May 17, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Nintendoe$n't. (Yeah I know, it's not quite Nintendon't, but it's close enough).
> 
> Also, $ega.
> 
> Also, Gahar$.


Let's not forget:

Nvidia $hield

N€o G€o X

$team

Ou¥a

On£ive Onliv€


...I'll be going now.


----------



## mid-kid (May 17, 2014)

As one of the biggest features I look for in a console is homebrew, I don't see anything wrong with the OUYA.
I know it misses most of those top-tier games, but honestly, I couldn't care less. Most of them are remakes of remakes anyway.
That said, I dislike all the others, as they try desperately to create their own social networks and stuff to get people to play only on their console. IMO, they fail terribly.
Still waiting for the day when they release their SDKs for free, and use a multiplatform means of communication.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 17, 2014)

mid-kid said:


> As one of the biggest features I look for in a console is homebrew, I don't see anything wrong with the OUYA.
> I know it misses most of those top-tier games, but honestly, I couldn't care less. Most of them are remakes of remakes anyway.
> That said, I dislike all the others, as they try desperately to create their own social networks and stuff to get people to play only on their console. IMO, they fail terribly.
> Still waiting for the day when they release their SDKs for free, and use a multiplatform means of communication.


There's this platform called PC - totally open, you can customize it from the ground up, I think you might like it.


----------



## mid-kid (May 17, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> There's this platform called PC - totally open, you can customize it from the ground up, I think you might like it.


 

I mostly game on my PC, but I didn't mention it as we're talking about consoles.


----------



## chavosaur (May 17, 2014)

I'm actually curious thaddius, did the Steam Box cross your mind when building these polls? I guess it's technically supposed to be a console but then agin I guess no one has really had any hands on experience with it.


----------



## Veho (May 17, 2014)

chavosaur said:


> I'm actually curious thaddius, did the Steam Box cross your mind when building these polls? I guess it's technically supposed to be a console but then agin I guess no one has really had any hands on experience with it.


It's not even out yet, so there's no point.


----------



## thaddius (May 17, 2014)

Veho is right. I considered it but people are having a hard enough time with the consoles that are released.


----------



## CompassNorth (May 17, 2014)

chavosaur said:


> I'm actually curious thaddius, did the Steam Box cross your mind when building these polls? I guess it's technically supposed to be a console but then agin I guess no one has really had any hands on experience with it.



It's not a console, not even "technically"
It's a small form factor PC


----------



## Taleweaver (May 17, 2014)

chavosaur said:


> I'm actually curious thaddius, did the Steam Box cross your mind when building these polls? I guess it's technically supposed to be a console but then agin I guess no one has really had any hands on experience with it.


Well...I actually have. But it wouldn't be a fair competition in the slightest. More like entering a fetus into a "most beautiful baby"-contest. Not only would it flat out win the ugly contest, you shouldn't be comparing the other babies to begin with! This generation has just begun, and just last generation showed that popularity varies with time (the wii was insanely popular at start while the PS3 had a terrible launch. Things changed "a bit" during that generation).


----------



## XDel (May 19, 2014)

I don't own one, but I got to give OUYA points for trying something new(ish).


----------



## fojacko (May 20, 2014)

Why no "all" option? 

Something, something, pcmasterrace...


All seriousness though, all consoles are really disappointing for me, underpowered consoles that frankly were overpriced when they came out (for what's inside them). You could spend £100 more on a pc (you could easily buy a decent pc for £450) , then after about 10-20 games, the price difference would be negligible since the pc counterparts of games are much cheaper, for example Xbox one COD:Ghosts is £32, pc is £23, Xbox one BF4 is £42 pc is £27, Xbox one titanfall is £40 pc is £30, etc you get the point. Not to mention steam sales which would save you loads of money.

I have a WiiU, but that's only because I love mario games, which is the only franchise that i care about that isn't multiplatform.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 20, 2014)

fojacko said:


> Why no "all" option?
> 
> Something, something, pcmasterrace...
> 
> ...


Here's the difference. If you spend 400-500 quid on a PC, it might be working perfectly fine now, it might even give you better performance than the consoles now, but in two years time it will be outdated and the games will start lagging while the consoles will have a guaranteed 7-8 years of top notch performance due to optimization for specific set-in-stone hardware. Don't think in categories of _"I'll spend a 100 quid more and I'll have an equivalent or better-performing PC"_, you'll have to spend much more than that over the course of the gaming generation to keep up and that's a fact.


----------



## stefer (May 20, 2014)

Putting the Ouya in there is like putting the iPad on the list, or any Android tablet.  It's a whole different game altogether...  
Yes Ouya games are not great...  there's a proof of concept right now on their store with streaming games, they have lego batman, i've tried it, wasn't too bad!  But the only thing i've used my Ouya for so far are the emulators and XBMC...

Next poll should be between Ouya, gamestick and all those indie android consoles.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 20, 2014)

stefer said:


> Putting the Ouya in there is like putting the iPad on the list, or any Android tablet. It's a whole different game altogether...
> Yes Ouya games are not great... there's a proof of concept right now on their store with streaming games, they have lego batman, i've tried it, wasn't too bad! But the only thing i've used my Ouya for so far are the emulators and XBMC...
> 
> Next poll should be between Ouya, gamestick and all those indie android consoles.


They're all devices specifically dedicated to gaming so I don't see why we should think of them any less just because they're running Android - PlayStation 3, 4 and the PSVita run custom versions of FreeBSD but we're not calling them PC's, are we _(except the handful of people who don't grasp the idea of what a console is)_?


----------



## fojacko (May 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Here's the difference. If you spend 400-500 quid on a PC, it might be working perfectly fine now, it might even give you better performance than the consoles now, but in two years time it will be outdated and the games will start lagging while the consoles will have a guaranteed 7-8 years of top notch performance due to optimization for specific set-in-stone hardware. Don't think in categories of _"I'll spend a 100 quid more and I'll have an equivalent or better-performing PC"_, you'll have to spend much more than that over the course of the gaming generation to keep up and that's a fact.


 
My cousins pc was built about 4 years ago for a similar price (i think about £450-£500) and it's still running great, he can play bf4 on medium and he hasn't upgraded anything. And when his does inevitabley become outdated, he can sell his gpu and/or cpu on ebay (i sold a Phenom II X3 for £60 late last year, and a geforce 7800 gt for £40) to put towards upgrading. Hell, i'd be willing to bet that in a few years you'd be able to buy a gpu and it'd last you ages.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 20, 2014)

fojacko said:


> My cousins pc was built about 4 years ago for a similar price (i think about £450-£500) and it's still running great, he can play bf4 on medium and he hasn't upgraded anything. And when his does inevitabley become outdated, he can sell his gpu and/or cpu on ebay (i sold a Phenom II X3 for £60 late last year, and a geforce 7800 gt for £40) to put towards upgrading. Hell, i'd be willing to bet that in a few years you'd be able to buy a gpu and it'd last you ages.


So in other words he spent 100 quid more and it took 4 years for him to get from top performance to mid-tier performance. Duly noted. Had he spent less, he'd be running on low detail within 2 years.


----------



## Sakitoshi (May 20, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> *snip*


 
by your logic the Wii U should be able to accept S/NES/64 carts and Gamecube discs but guess what, it doesn't.
and if you want to make the games look better and skip the modding part, just get a beefy PC and problem solved. sure it cost the same as all of the money you already invested on the multiple consoles and copies of the games.


----------



## codezer0 (May 21, 2014)

Sakitoshi said:


> by your logic the Wii U should be able to accept S/NES/64 carts and Gamecube discs but guess what, it doesn't.
> and if you want to make the games look better and skip the modding part, just get a beefy PC and problem solved. sure it cost the same as all of the money you already invested on the multiple consoles and copies of the games.


It took me until the middle of _2013_ to find an emulator for *ps1* that ran games well enough to effectively qualify. There are no PS2 emulators up to that level, much less had yet to qualify.

Emulation on the PC is just not possible for anything more recent. And even now, the cheapest I could spec out a computer I could be happy with was about $2700 just in the parts... nevermind the extra that I'd have to spend for appropriate cooling, a UPS to keep input power clean, et al.

Sony _made_ backward compatibility matter with the PS2. And Since then, Sony has also changed their controller or their game medium of choice the least. Sony also retained all of the hardware IP for all generations of their consoles and handhelds.

Nintendo drastically changed their control interface from GameCube to Wii, but still provided ports to help allow people to use their controllers and play their games on the new system. Everyone knows that Microsoft failed to retain the hardware IP to the CPU & GPU in the Original Xbox, so of course they had to start from scratch when emulating the games to run on the 360.

That said, unlike Sony and Microsoft, at least Nintendo didn't automatically invalidate everything I had bought for my Wii with the WiiU. All my Wii controllers and accessories can work on the new system. And when importing my profile over, all my digital purchases would work, too. Sony and Microsoft chose to make it so that nothing you bought for the PS3 and 360 will work on the PS4 and X1. Sony and Microsoft chose to devalue everything that's available on the older platforms simply because they want to resell it to us for some outrageous price. Sony and Microsoft both chose to basically screw us over in that regard.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 21, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> It took me until the middle of _2013_ to find an emulator for *ps1* that ran games well enough to effectively qualify. There are no PS2 emulators up to that level, much less had yet to qualify.


Wow, you must've missed major releases or your PC is really way behind the times. These days emulators have surpassed simple emulation and venture into the fields of improving games by post-processing, increasing native resolutions, adding filtering to textures etc. - just look at ePSXe or Dolphin. The PS2 is a particularly difficult platform to emulate hence the high system requirements, but other than that, every platform from or before that era has a good emulator except for the Xbox. That's not to say that emulation is in any way superior, by no means - I personally prefer to play the games on their original platforms, but emulation with upped internal resolution is a treat that can really put a fresh breath of life into the old classics.


----------



## codezer0 (May 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Wow, you must've missed major releases or your PC is really way behind the times. These days emulators have surpassed simple emulation and venture into the fields of improving games by post-processing, increasing native resolutions, adding filtering to textures etc. - just look at ePSXe or Dolphin. The PS2 is a particularly difficult platform to emulate hence the high system requirements, but other than that, every platform from or before that era has a good emulator except for the Xbox. That's not to say that emulation is in any way superior, by no means - I personally prefer to play the games on their original platforms, but emulation with upped internal resolution is a treat that can really put a fresh breath of life into the old classics.


ePSXe _never_ worked for me. at all. Up until finding pSX, the only emulator I found that actually *worked* and _more than once_ was Bleem! and well... you couldn't even buy it anymore.

never had a motivation for dolphin since... my Wii still works like a charm with the GameCube stuff.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 21, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> ePSXe never worked for me. at all. Up until finding *pSX*, *the only emulator I found that actually worked and more than once was Bleem!* and well... you couldn't even buy it anymore.
> 
> never had a motivation for dolphin since... my Wii still works like a charm with the GameCube stuff.


pSX? Bleem!? Whoa... 

Not sure if blast from the past or stone age... switch to ePSXe, using anything else in this day and age is redundant. pSX hasn't been updated since 2008 and Bleem! was an early emulator and understandably had _"issues"_ with just about anything.


----------



## Jayro (May 21, 2014)

How is this the 8th generation of consoles? Starting with the NES, Nintendo has only released 6 in total, excluding handhelds.



codezer0 said:


> ePSXe _never_ worked for me. at all. Up until finding pSX, the only emulator I found that actually *worked* and _more than once_ was Bleem! and well... you couldn't even buy it anymore.
> 
> never had a motivation for dolphin since... my Wii still works like a charm with the GameCube stuff.


 
I never got ePSXe working either, and the PSX emulator for Android won't work well via OpenGL, so I can't even play with hi-res graphics like the screenshots show. :/


----------



## Gahars (May 21, 2014)

JayRo said:


> How is this the 8th generation of consoles? Starting with the NES, Nintendo has only released 6 in total, excluding handhelds.


 

Because console generations started with Nintendo?


----------



## thaddius (May 21, 2014)

Also I doubt he's including the Nintendo Color TV Game.


----------



## Jayro (May 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Because console generations started with Nintendo?


 
Yeah, the ones that matter.


----------



## Taleweaver (May 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Here's the difference. If you spend 400-500 quid on a PC, it might be working perfectly fine now, it might even give you better performance than the consoles now, but in two years time it will be outdated and the games will start lagging while the consoles will have a guaranteed 7-8 years of top notch performance due to optimization for specific set-in-stone hardware. Don't think in categories of _"I'll spend a 100 quid more and I'll have an equivalent or better-performing PC"_, you'll have to spend much more than that over the course of the gaming generation to keep up and that's a fact.


This depends on what "outdated" means. Newer and faster CPU's, GPU's and the like are still being released roughly on a Moore's law kind of prediction, but games don't require top notch PC's anymore as they used to (except for ultra-high settings). It aren't the nineties or zeroties* anymore: your average PC has a much longer expected lifespan nowadays (at least, the average PC I bought seven years ago can still play the far majority of games I throw at it without hiccups. not on highest settings, but more than decent). On top of that, the price is dropping. More precisely: it's dropping faster than to be expected (if I had spent the same budget on my new pc as I had spent on my average pc from seven years ago, I would've been close to alienware).

*or however you want to call the first ten years of this millennium


----------



## Foxi4 (May 21, 2014)

JayRo said:


> Yeah, the ones that matter.


Yeah, no. You could argue that it all started with the Fairchild Channel F since it was the first to feature programmable cartridges to my knowledge (previous systems used jumpers to alter a logic chain that was in the system already so you couldn't really program anything for them, the "games" were already bundled) but the official classification starts with the Magnavox Odyssey.


----------



## Gahars (May 21, 2014)

JayRo said:


> Yeah, the ones that matter.


 

3/10, step it up, senpai


----------



## CompassNorth (May 21, 2014)

JayRo said:


> I never got ePSXe working either, and the PSX emulator for Android won't work well via OpenGL, so I can't even play with hi-res graphics like the screenshots show. :/


 
Take a look here.


----------



## matpower (May 21, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> Take a look here.


Updated link.


----------



## DrOctapu (May 22, 2014)

The ouya hands down. I owned one for about a day before shipping it back. The controller doesn't even work with anything between it and the ouya, which is goddamn ridiculous. The games are complete shit, most of them are laggy or bogged down IAP clusterfucks. The UI was atrocious, completely impractical. The controller was an oddly shaped mess. As for things that can actually be called consoles, the Wii U is probably lowest on my list. Coming from someone who owns one. It's just... not good. Third party support is a mess, it's day one dated, and it's probably going to be dead soon. Not really the best purchase.


----------



## CompassNorth (May 22, 2014)

matpower said:


> Updated link.


Oh wow didn't know they changed their wiki. 
Thanks for the heads up copadre.


----------



## Joe88 (May 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> pSX? Bleem!? Whoa...
> 
> Not sure if blast from the past or stone age... switch to ePSXe, using anything else in this day and age is redundant. pSX hasn't been updated since 2008 and Bleem! was an early emulator and understandably had _"issues"_ with just about anything.


I also used CVGS which required retail PS1 discs to play but it ran like a dream even on the crappiest of systems


----------



## stefer (May 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> They're all devices specifically dedicated to gaming so I don't see why we should think of them any less just because they're running Android - PlayStation 3, 4 and the PSVita run custom versions of FreeBSD but we're not calling them PC's, are we _(except the handful of people who don't grasp the idea of what a console is)_?


 
Then my other point stands : compare to Gamestick and all those other consoles then!


----------



## Foxi4 (May 22, 2014)

Indeed, there's more microconsoles out there.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Indeed, there's more microconsoles out there.


 
Please, don't remind me.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Please, don't remind me.


I don't think there's anything wrong with that, really. Microconsoles and _"family consoles"_ like the Wii are gateway systems - they introduce people who normally wouldn't play games into the world of gaming, I think they're a positive thing, although saturation with systems that do the exact same thing and support the same software is a concern.


----------



## matpower (May 22, 2014)

So can we call the Polystation 4 a new-gen micro-console? xD


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> saturation with systems that do the exact same thing and support the same software is a concern.


 
That's the main thing I'm worried about.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> That's the main thing I'm worried about.


_*Shrug*_ more competition leads to an arms race to provide better support, better features and in the long run better microconsoles. Before mainstream solutions like the OUYA popped up the Android gaming devices market was dominated by chinese crap like the JXD's, now we see more _"genuine"_ attempts at providing a proper gaming experience on Android and I'm going to treat that trend as a positive thing. At the end of the day all it means is that users have a choice - the systems are cross-compatible, whatever you pick will play the same games anyways, for better or worse, aside from some exclusives.


----------



## thaddius (May 23, 2014)

Something came up today. Post will be tomorrow. Sorry guys.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 23, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Or instead of paying $2000 for a console they could just, y'know, buy a PS3. Or 10 PS3s.


 
It's for an all-in-one ideal system, not having multiples around.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 23, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> It's for an all-in-one ideal system, not having multiples around.


It's still not cost-effective. I don't think there's a whole lot of people who would pay $1000 extra just to have two systems in one. I don't think there's a lot of people who'd pay $1000 for a system _in general_, and the PS3 proved that.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (May 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's still not cost-effective. I don't think there's a whole lot of people who would pay $1000 extra just to have two systems in one. I don't think there's a lot of people who'd pay $1000 for a system _in general_, and the PS3 proved that.


 
The amount of posts you have is what some people are willing to pay (or even more) for a limited or rare game/console in the market, so while it may be small it's still a lot of money.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 23, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> The amount of posts you have is what some people are willing to pay (or even more) for a limited or rare game/console in the market, so while it may be small it's still a lot of money.


Uhm... No.

When you sell a $399 system to 8 million people, you $3.192.000.000 out of which 80% will probably cover your own expenses. When you sell a $16.000 system to a 100 people, you get $16.000.00 and end up losing millions on R&D alone. I don't understand how this is an alien concept, we've literally been through this with the early run of the PS3 that cost an arm and a leg, nobody wanted it and it put the PlayStation division to the brink of bankrupcy.


----------



## tbgtbg (May 23, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> ePSXe _never_ worked for me. at all. Up until finding pSX, the only emulator I found that actually *worked* and _more than once_ was Bleem! and well... you couldn't even buy it anymore.



There was a pretty good one called Virtual Game Station out around the same time as bleem (and bleem honestly wasn't that good, never felt like more than an early beta). It didn't do anything fancy like bleem was attempting, with higher resolutions or whatever, just PSX games on PC (and Mac), but it worked really well, and had no problem playing any game I threw at it. But then Sony found a clever way to stop them after a lawsuit failed. They bought them out. And that was the end of that.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 23, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> There was a pretty good one called Virtual Game Station out around the same time as bleem (and bleem honestly wasn't that good, never felt like more than an early beta). It didn't do anything fancy like bleem was attempting, with higher resolutions or whatever, just PSX games on PC (and Mac), but it worked really well, and had no problem playing any game I threw at it. But then Sony found a clever way to stop them after a lawsuit failed. They bought them out. And that was the end of that.


I remember VGS, it was pretty good. As for stopping Bleem!, Sony indeed lost the lawsuit against them, but the legal fees alone crunched the Bleem! team's budget pretty substantially so they closed doors. They do work for Sony now though, this much is correct.


----------



## TheDarkSeed (May 23, 2014)

TV, Call of Duty, Sports.


----------

