# Why Don't People Vaccinate?



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.

Please try to keep this fairly civil.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 13, 2016)

Because there are myths regarding vaccination. So paranoid parents don't vaccinate their children.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.
> 
> Please try to keep this fairly civil.



Because Vaccines have been confirmed to be linked to various cancers / diseases.  There have been many doctors that have been killed for exposing this.  Pretty sad how parents don't research for their children.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> Because there are myths regarding vaccination. So paranoid parents don't vaccinate their children.


But they have been proven to be from people pulling numbers out of who knows where. :-/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ModderFokker619 said:


> Because Vaccines have been confirmed to be linked to various cancers / diseases.  There have been many doctors that have been killed for exposing this.  Pretty sad how parents don't research for their children.


May I have the studies for this?


----------



## MichiS97 (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> But they have been proven to be from people pulling numbers out of who knows where. :-/
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


There are no actual studies from reliable sources. It's just a conspiracy theory.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

MichiS97 said:


> There are no actual studies from reliable sources. It's just a conspiracy theory.


That is what I figured and why I asked for a study.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.
> 
> Please try to keep this fairly civil.


I got vaccines as a child and hated them, as an adult I can only say that I still hate them and now that I have a choice I would probably say no if someone suggested I get a vaccine for something


----------



## evandixon (Aug 13, 2016)




----------



## GalladeGuy (Aug 13, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Because Vaccines have been confirmed to be linked to various cancers / diseases.  There have been many doctors that have been killed for exposing this.  Pretty sad how parents don't research for their children.


I'm pretty sure that's just a conspiracy theory.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I got vaccines as a child and hated them, as an adult I can only say that I still hate them and now that I have a choice I would probably say no if someone suggested I get a vaccine for something


That is not a good reason, a poke and a little burning for an hour or so compared to being sick or dying is not very comparable. :-/


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 13, 2016)

Because people are stupid but think they're smarter than doctors because they listen to a former playboy model who advertises cancer-causing tobacco products that tells them that vaccines cause autism.


----------



## DKB (Aug 13, 2016)

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/


----------



## DaFixer (Aug 13, 2016)

Becase there are dumb, here in The Netherlands there are "parents" don't vaccinate they kids becase off they christian religion....


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

DaFixer said:


> Becase there are dumb, here in The Netherlands there are "parents" don't vaccinate they kids becase off they christian religion....


I have never seen anything about vaccinations in any bible. I wonder where that came from.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 13, 2016)

Because they are stupid and believe in junk fake science.


----------



## Chary (Aug 13, 2016)

DaFixer said:


> Becase there are dumb, here in The Netherlands there are "parents" don't vaccinate they kids becase off they christian religion....





gudenaurock said:


> I have never seen anything about vaccinations in any bible. I wonder where that came from.



As far as I've seen, that's usually the result of Christians using that as an excuse to not have their kids vaccinated.

I had vaccines back in 2008, and ended up contracting sepsis due to a contaminated syringe at the doctor's office. 15 days straight with a 104.5F fever, and nearly died. Do I hate vaccines and incompetent doctors? Absolutely. Would I recommend that parents avoid vaccinations for their children? Heck no. I'd rather not die of smallpox because someone else was too afraid they'd get autism from a needle.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> That is not a good reason, a poke and a little burning for an hour or so compared to being sick or dying is not very comparable. :-/


Maybe not, but the chances of actually getting sick because you skipped a vaccine is very low.
Anyway, I believe you're supposed to be re-vaccinated after 10 or 20 years or something... No idea if I'm overdue or not, I assume I'd get a reminder.


----------



## Cyan (Aug 13, 2016)

because don't fix if not broken?

Why don't you take aspirin if you don't have headache?
they should test people to see if they are still positive instead of re-vaccinating without reasons.


Why pro vaccination always try to enforce their idea that it's a good thing even if not needed?*
vaccination before going to some risky countries, ok, but vaccination for useless things is only brain wash by pharmaceutic group to get more money.

*oh, and by "not needed", I'm not talking about all vaccines, only about vaccines that some countries don't have, while others have them mandatory. why a vaccine should be mandatory only in some countries and not others?
the countries which don't have them mandatory are not dead...
don't think about your own country only, check all countries law and what they are enforcing or not, and see if it's really required or not.

in France for example, 3 vaccines are mandatory, and they used to be injected at the same time (in the same capsule). For few years now, the pharmaceutic groups decided to stop production of the "3 in 1" and produce only a "5 in 1" adding 2 non-mandatory vaccines inside the same capsule.
They are not mandatory, but you are FORCED to get them if you need the other ones, and there's no way to NOT get the additional ones.


then there are people who are seeing medical organization as our savior and vaccine CAN'T be bad. you are right, drugs are not bad ... see how many dead people due to pharmaceutical errors, and they let people get bad product and even dies, but "it's for your own good". (it's for their money only)
when they know one of their product is bad, they don't forbid them, instead they let people use them for 30 years and get enough money to deal with justice about their defective product, malformed and dead people.
medical group don't care about people's health, they care about themselves.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 13, 2016)

Chary said:


> As far as I've seen, that's usually the result of Christians using that as an excuse to not have their kids vaccinated.
> 
> I had vaccines back in 2008, and ended up contracting sepsis due to a contaminated syringe at the doctor's office. 15 days straight with a 104.5F fever, and nearly died. Do I hate vaccines and incompetent doctors? Absolutely. Would I recommend that parents avoid vaccinations for their children? Heck no. I'd rather not die of smallpox because someone else was too afraid they'd get autism from a needle.


relevant


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

Chary said:


> As far as I've seen, that's usually the result of Christians using that as an excuse to not have their kids vaccinated.
> 
> I had vaccines back in 2008, and ended up contracting sepsis due to a contaminated syringe at the doctor's office. Do I hate vaccines and incompetent doctors? Absolutely. Would I recommend that parents avoid vaccinations for their children? Heck no. I'd rather not die of smallpox because someone else was too afraid they'd get autism from a needle.


That is unfortunate for sure, but it was not the vaccination that did it. :-/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Cyan said:


> because don't fix if not broken?


It *is* broken though, since the immune system gets bypassed. :-P


----------



## proflayton123 (Aug 13, 2016)

Maybe some peoples parents don't know whats in the vaccine, being artificial, not natural..


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 13, 2016)

I, whilst would like to be vaccinated, cannot be due to my body just refusing it. Since a Doctor will refuse to vaccinate you if you were to say no, is very difficult because as soon as I see the needle, I say no and panic.
It started two years ago, I think. After I got measles from the outbreak, I went to get the rest of the MMR (wasn't vaccinated as a child, not because of vaccination scares but because my mum did not want to deal with 3 ill children at once) and I fainted when the needle went in. I didn't think badly of it, I thought it was fine, didn't hurt. But for some reason, I'm now petrified of needles. And yet away from one, I'm totally okay with the idea of it, and was okay when the first went in.
So, there's my reason.


----------



## Chary (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> That is unfortunate for sure, but it was not the vaccination that did it. :-/



Right, which is why I'm wary of them, but not against them. There's bound to be a case somewhere out there, where someone gets screwed over because they chose to get a vaccine. But the alternative, being susceptible to a wide array of crappy diseases, isn't worth that fear.


----------



## rasputin (Aug 13, 2016)

Trust your puppet government and the puppet master elites that rule over you, they love you honestly. Never in history has any medication been discovered to be bad for you, never, not once ever honestly.. cough cough thalidomide

Not anywhere in the world have modern vaccinations been withdrawn because of health concerns, nowhere, not one place honestly... cough cough Italy etc

The massive rate of increase of children having autistic symptoms, is just pure coincidence, absolutely I heard it on the news.

By the way Barak Obama really is the most powerful man in the world.


----------



## Jao Chu (Aug 13, 2016)

Just a conspiracy theory perpetuated by tin-foil hat wearing lunatics.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

yodamerlin said:


> I, whilst would like to be vaccinated, cannot be due to my body just refusing it. Since a Doctor will refuse to vaccinate you if you were to say no, is very difficult because as soon as I see the needle, I say no and panic.
> It started two years ago, I think. After I got measles from the outbreak, I went to get the rest of the MMR (wasn't vaccinated as a child, not because of vaccination scares but because my mum did not want to deal with 3 ill children at once) and I fainted when the needle went in. I didn't think badly of it, I thought it was fine, didn't hurt. But for some reason, I'm now petrified of needles. And yet away from one, I'm totally okay with the idea of it, and was okay when the first went in.
> So, there's my reason.


Well, I am sure you could work on that. :-D



Chary said:


> Right, which is why I'm wary of them, but not against them. There's bound to be a case somewhere out there, where someone gets screwed over because they chose to get a vaccine. But the alternative, being susceptible to a wide array of crappy diseases, isn't worth that fear.


It is possible to have an infection after being vaccinated, but it is rare. But if 100% got vaccinated, the herd immunity thing would prevent that.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 13, 2016)

rasputin said:


> Trust your puppet government and the puppet master elites that rule over you, they love you honestly. Never in history has any medication been discovered to be bad for you, never, not once ever honestly.. cough cough thalidomide
> 
> Not anywhere in the world have modern vaccinations been withdrawn because of health concerns, nowhere, not one place honestly... cough cough Italy etc
> 
> The massive rate of increase of children having autistic symptoms, is just pure coincidence, absolutely I heard it on the news.


Exhibit A.


----------



## rasputin (Aug 13, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Exhibit A.



Sheeple B


----------



## DaFixer (Aug 13, 2016)

Chary said:


> As far as I've seen, that's usually the result of Christians using that as an excuse to not have their kids vaccinated.
> 
> I had vaccines back in 2008, and ended up contracting sepsis due to a contaminated syringe at the doctor's office. 15 days straight with a 104.5F fever, and nearly died. Do I hate vaccines and incompetent doctors? Absolutely. Would I recommend that parents avoid vaccinations for their children? Heck no. I'd rather not die of smallpox because someone else was too afraid they'd get autism from a needle.



To bad to hear that, I have never a issue with vaccines.
Here we have some citys where the christian religion is very strong, becase off that they lie the lives off they kids in the hands off god..


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Exhibit A.





rasputin said:


> Sheeple B



Please try to stay civil, I think it is OK to be wrong. But try not to allow it to make others suffer. ^^


----------



## KingBlank (Aug 13, 2016)

For the same reason people dont upgrade to windows 10


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

DaFixer said:


> To bad to hear that, I have never a issue with vaccines.
> Here we have some citys where the christian religion is very strong, becase off that they lie the lives off they kids in the hands off god..


If that where the case, I am sure it would want it's creations to NOT die horrible and preventable deaths.


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 13, 2016)

I'm sure I could work on it, but it's not something that happens often. I've just got to be careful of there's a rubella or mumps outbreak.
And of course tetanus and the others with that.
I realise that it's not good to not be immunised, seriously guys, you don't want measles. It's just horrific. I was in pain from itching all over for over a week. You don't want it.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

KingBlank said:


> For the same reason people dont upgrade to windows 10


How is that related may I ask?


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> Please try to stay civil, I think it is OK to be wrong. But try not to allow it to make others suffer. ^^


Well I'm not gonna sugar coat it just because one of them is among us.  The mentality is dangerous and needs to be called out for what it is.  It's not just those who choose not to vaccinate who suffer, or limited to just their kids.  There are members of our society who, due to issues with their own immune system, cannot be vaccinated, and they rely on herd immunity to keep them healthy.  The more people who refuse vaccinations, the weaker the herd immunity and the greater risk to society.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Well I'm not gonna sugar coat it just because one of them is among us.  The mentality is dangerous and needs to be called out for what it is.  It's not just those who choose not to vaccinate who suffer, or limited to just their kids.  There are members of our society who, due to issues with their own immune system, cannot be vaccinated, and they rely on herd immunity to keep them healthy.  The more people who refuse vaccinations, the weaker the herd immunity and the greater risk to society.


EXACTLY, this is why it should be a law.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 13, 2016)

another note on herd immunity: For now these people who choose not to vaccinate are experiencing the benefits of herd immunity, but if their mentality were to take over, you'd be seeing disease running rampant as it did in the dark ages.  It's kinda like having a 4-way stop-sign and one person decides that stop signs don't apply to them.  They'll probably be fine if everyone else stops as they're supposed to, but if everyone ignores the stop sign, we're gonna have a lot of wrecks.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> another note on herd immunity: For now these people who choose not to vaccinate are experiencing the benefits of herd immunity, but if their mentality were to take over, you'd be seeing disease running rampant as it did in the dark ages.  It's kinda like having a 4-way stop-sign and one person decides that stop signs don't apply to them.  They'll probably be fine if everyone else stops as they're supposed to, but if everyone ignores the stop sign, we're gonna have a lot of wrecks.


Nice analogy! The herd immunity *is* starting to where thin at this point though, give it a few years and it will probably be much worse I am afraid. Good luck to the children who have no say in this. :-(


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2016)

Do your research please.  Ive done mine and it has turned me vegan.  My daughters cancer led me to be the healthiest i've been in my life.  Its old news that vaccines are extremely bad for humans.  In fact the whole medical establishment as a whole is a joke.  Holistic doctors are the only real doctors.  Look up truth about cancer - Doctors got killed for some of the knowledge they passed on to us.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 13, 2016)

rasputin said:


> cough cough thalidomide


Not linked to autism by any study. Hasn't even been in vaccines for a while.


rasputin said:


> Not anywhere in the world have modern vaccinations been withdrawn because of health concerns, nowhere, not one place honestly... cough cough *Italy* etc





Spoiler











 Tell me more about it...


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Do your research please.  Ive done mine and it has turned me vegan.  My daughters cancer led me to be the healthiest i've been in my life.  Its old news that vaccines are extremely bad for humans.  In fact the whole medical establishment as a whole is a joke.  Holistic doctors are the only real doctors.  Look up truth about cancer - Doctors got killed for some of the knowledge they passed on to us.


I feel bad for your kids, malnutrition, cancer and greater chance of catching a disease. Sources for your claims please?


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 13, 2016)

If anyone wants to know my advice:
"Whatever you do, don't get measles."


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 13, 2016)

i see vaccinations as a sort of natural selection process


----------



## KingBlank (Aug 13, 2016)

Its so insulting to all the researchers developing vaccines that we are even having this discussion.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I have never seen anything about vaccinations in any bible. I wonder where that came from.


People love to make up parts of the Bible to justify their own stupidity.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

So far these are the answers:
Fear
Physically can not
Religion
Hatred for government

Missing any?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Crystal the Glaceon said:


> People love to make up parts of the Bible to justify their own stupidity.


I noticed, they misquote a lot as well. I called someone out for it once, shut em right up.


----------



## Sliter (Aug 13, 2016)

because people are assholes
I mean , some people think it's funny to see not well informed people suffer/ die and then call that it's " survival of the smartest", but the thing is: If you have a fruit  that you don't know, if someone tell it's poisonous it's common that you don't eat this, but if you already knew that it's not you will keep eating it.
I Don't know people are this kind of evil:/ like saying tha you can charge your phone on microwave 
" But they sue it everyday they should know" yeah, there a a LOT of info in the world and I'm sure you din't know half of it ...

Other may came by fear on injections/ what was that inside... sometime medical error happens .. oh well :/


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

Sliter said:


> because people are assholes
> I mean , some people think it's funny to see not well informed people suffer/ die and then call that it's " survival of the smartest", but the thing is: If you have a fruit  that you don't know, if someone tell it's poisonous it's common that you don't eat this, but if you already knew that it's not you will keep eating it.
> I Don't know people are this kind of evil:/ like saying tha you can charge your phone on microwave
> " But they sue it everyday they should know" yeah, there a a LOT of info in the world and I'm sure you din't know half of it ...
> ...



OOOH SO THAT IS HOW THE WIRELESS CHARGING WORKS?!?! BRB, microwaving phone.
(Just kidding, I know how it works for real)


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 13, 2016)

proflayton123 said:


> Maybe some peoples parents don't know whats in the vaccine, being artificial, not natural..


Some of the best poisons I know are derived from plants, and certainly would be where I look for a lot of more readily obtainable ones (granted nicotine is now sold in pure vials that are easy to increase in concentration).
Better yet many "natural" colours and flavourings can have some pretty unsavoury things floating around in them where the exact same active chemical can be had in far purer form by nasty artificial means.



Cyan said:


> because don't fix if not broken?
> 
> Why don't you take aspirin if you don't have headache?
> they should test people to see if they are still positive instead of re-vaccinating without reasons.



As was mentioned the immune system is broken if it would allow something in to wreak havoc like a virus, and with a vaccination you can patch it to handle it.

Herd immunity counts for a lot. If most of the herd is vaccinated then transmission is mightily difficult.

I am not sure what confirming the existence of antibodies would do. All medicines have side effects and it is the job of the medic and the patient (or patient's consenting party) to come to a conclusion as to what goes. The side effects of booster shots as it were being given at a point where a statistically significant number of people would have the immunity conferred start to wane is not really worth speaking of.

And yeah many would take aspirin despite not having a headache. It seems to have a statistically significant effect on heart disease (an aspirin a day and all that). I know that is not what you were heading for but I do like my glib responses.

Re: The Netherlands anti vaccination religious types. That is actually a fairly decent case study for Europe.

As for why it seems to be a nice mix of poor information when combined with psychology, in some cases a rejection of modern medicine, there are some that have a genuine medical reason not to (compromised immune system in some way, though anybody there should really be plumping for everybody else to get them thanks to the whole herd immunity thing), in some cases a general misunderstanding of how biology works, in some cases a misunderstanding of how business works (yes the mass produced shot nets far more than a mass infection necessitating weeks of inpatient care being pumped full of drugs, also not everything is big business driven and there is plenty of research done for the greater good).

I will happily tell anybody that does not have a good medical reason for not doing it that they are bad parents, am quite happy to see those that lack them kicked out of school systems until it is done, would not let your germ factories play with my germ factories and call any religion that advocates against it a poor religion. I am all for a bit of natural selection but the Darwin awards have a "best not to have taken out any innocents along the way" clause for a reason.


----------



## yuyuyup (Aug 13, 2016)

anti-vaxers are like terrorists trying to murder children


----------



## ihaveahax (Aug 13, 2016)

in my opinion, honestly the only one I can truly understand is being unable to have vaccinations (immune system rejects it, etc). anything else is needlessly putting yourself/others in danger for easily preventable diseases and things.


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 13, 2016)

yuyuyup said:


> anti-vaxers are like terrorists trying to murder children


oh good, we agree on something
leave it to @FAST6191 to have a long but intelligent response


----------



## PSSceneIsBestScene (Aug 13, 2016)

rasputin said:


> cough cough thalidomide
> 
> cough cough Italy etc



That is a nasty cough you have, i think you need some sort of vaccination to fix it O.o


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

ihaveamac said:


> in my opinion, honestly the only one I can truly understand is being unable to have vaccinations (immune system rejects it, etc). anything else is needlessly putting yourself/others in danger for easily preventable diseases and things.


Exactly! One of the few ways to kill someone that is not illegal. :-(

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



PSSceneIsBestScene said:


> That is a nasty cough you have, i think you need some sort of vaccination to fix it O.o


If you have symptoms, a vaccine wont work as it is to late. :-(


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I feel bad for your kids, malnutrition, cancer and greater chance of catching a disease. Sources for your claims please?




So sad how you ask without researching yourself.  If its not natural you introduce viruses / disease.  It's that simple.  7 month vegan here and people are amazed how good I look and feel.  Guess its my malnutrition.  Wake up people.  If doctors being murdered for coming forward isnt enough then I dont know what is.  Again do your own research instead of asking to be fed.

Back to these 3ds hard mods I have to do.


----------



## PSSceneIsBestScene (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> If you have symptoms, a vaccine wont work as it is to late. :-(




See this is why vaccinations are important


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> So sad how you ask without researching yourself.  If its not natural you introduce viruses / disease.  It's that simple.  7 month vegan here and people are amazed how good I look and feel.  Guess its my malnutrition.  Wake up people.  If doctors being murdered for coming forward isnt enough then I dont know what is.  Again do your own research instead of asking to be fed.
> 
> Back to these 3ds hard mods I have to do.


What murders?
Amazement can be a bad thing.
Sleeping is nice, I get to drive.


----------



## Sliter (Aug 13, 2016)

Cyan said:


> Why don't you take aspirin if you don't have headache?
> they should test people to see if they are still positive instead of re-vaccinating without reasons.


man , vaccine isn't the cure , is a weak version of the disease, so it don't kill you and your body learn how to kill it if you you get it for real 
Also getting if you are weak, sick is worse .. my  dad thes edays got an cold
and had the brilliant idea to get a flu vacine to get better!just got worse :x


Cyan said:


> Why pro vaccination always try to enforce their idea that it's a good thing even if not needed?*
> vaccination before going to some risky countries, ok, but vaccination for useless things is only brain wash by pharmaceutic group to get more money.


Some countries you vote if you want ,other you have to vote :v this don't make less clowns  get power, generally xD

Well is really bad to be forced to take stuff ... nobody want that but is because some people don't understand
In Brazilian history we had stuff like that, to get a better sanitation they started to vacine people, on their homes, they wanting it or not, people don't understand that and the problems started ...
know more : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Revolt 



gudenaurock said:


> OOOH SO THAT IS HOW THE WIRELESS CHARGING WORKS?!?! BRB, microwaving phone.
> (Just kidding, I know how it works for real)


lol XD


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 13, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> So sad how you ask without researching yourself.  If its not natural you introduce viruses / disease.  It's that simple.  7 month vegan here and people are amazed how good I look and feel.  Guess its my malnutrition.  Wake up people.  If doctors being murdered for coming forward isnt enough then I dont know what is.  Again do your own research instead of asking to be fed.
> 
> Back to these 3ds hard mods I have to do.


I can already see this thread becoming a follow-up of the legendary milk one.


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 13, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> I can already see this thread becoming a follow-up of the legendary milk one.


Memories


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 13, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> I can already see this thread becoming a follow-up of the legendary milk one.





LittleFlame said:


> Memories


Good times. I miss it.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> I can already see this thread becoming a follow-up of the legendary milk one.


What did I miss. 0.0


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> What did I miss. 0.0


The most legendary thinfoil hat thread ever made here.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 13, 2016)

Cyan said:


> because don't fix if not broken?
> 
> Why don't you take aspirin if you don't have headache?


Why wear a seatbelt if you're not having a car accident? Preventative measures.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> The most legendary thinfoil hat thread ever made here.


May I please have a link?


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 13, 2016)

The US government actually created a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in 1986 to protect the pharmaceutical companies from direct lawsuits regarding vaccine illnesses and injuries. To date, the US government (taxpayers) has paid out over $3 billion to vaccine-injured Americans.


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> May I please have a link?


https://gbatemp.net/threads/milk-is-bad-for-you.414719/


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 13, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> May I please have a link?


https://gbatemp.net/threads/milk-is-bad-for-you.414719/
Ninja'd.


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 13, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> https://gbatemp.net/threads/milk-is-bad-for-you.414719/


BAM NINJA'D


----------



## gudenau (Aug 13, 2016)

LittleFlame said:


> https://gbatemp.net/threads/milk-is-bad-for-you.414719/





Aurora Wright said:


> https://gbatemp.net/threads/milk-is-bad-for-you.414719/


Thanks, should be a good read!

Edit:
"This video is private" It is great already. :-D


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 13, 2016)

Reminds me of a poem about a cliff that people fell off so often that they put an ambulance below it to take those who fell off to hospital. They used up so much money because of it, and they then decided to put a small fence on the top of the cliff. The ambulance was stopped.
If anyone knows the poem, please tell me! It's been in my head a while, well, the jist of it at least.


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 13, 2016)

yodamerlin said:


> Reminds me of a poem about a cliff that people fell off so often that they put an ambulance below it to take those who fell off to hospital. They used up so much money because of it, and they then decided to put a small fence on the top of the cliff. The ambulance was stopped.
> If anyone knows the poem, please tell me! It's been in my head a while, well, the jist of it at least.


i heard that one sometime in grade school!
i don't remember it tho >.>


----------



## yodamerlin (Aug 13, 2016)

LittleFlame said:


> i heard that one sometime in grade school!
> i don't remember it tho >.>


I remember it being a good poem as well...


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Because Vaccines have been confirmed to be linked to various cancers / diseases.  There have been many doctors that have been killed for exposing this.  Pretty sad how parents don't research for their children.


Might you also believe in the amazing illuminati controling us in the sky?


----------



## Valkenhyn (Aug 14, 2016)

I'm Christian and I have never missed a vaccination. There is a load of stereotyping going on which is crap because if I do a racist stereotype (which I won't). All hell will break lose. That's a double standard right there. I can think of 7 Christians who refuse to vaccinate their children and that because they all no someone who died due to a vaccination-releated cause. Nothing to do with the bible. It was a dirty syringe or a body not strong enough to handle the vaccination. I had a 90 year old neighbor who died 2 years ago because she couldn't handle a vaccination and I still will get myself vaccinated.


----------



## Earth97 (Aug 14, 2016)

LittleFlame said:


> Memories


Would you mind sharing them? 



ModderFokker619 said:


> So sad how you ask without researching yourself. * If its not natural you introduce viruses / disease*.  It's that simple.  7 month vegan here and people are amazed how good I look and feel.  Guess its my malnutrition.  Wake up people.  If doctors being murdered for coming forward isnt enough then I dont know what is.  Again do your own research instead of asking to be fed.
> 
> Back to these 3ds hard mods I have to do.


It's not natural to have electromagnetic waves continuously crossing your body, shut down your electronic devices!
It's called "exploiting possibilities nature offers". Our immune system stores information about pathogens. There's nothing "unnatural" in taking advantage of that mechanism to teach our body who are the bad guys.


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 14, 2016)

Earth97 said:


> Would you mind sharing them?


https://gbatemp.net/threads/milk-is-bad-for-you.414719/


----------



## capito27 (Aug 14, 2016)

also, i guess i shouldn't say that vaccines don't actually contain the virus they are trying to make you prepared against but simply a genetically modified version of the vaccine virus to be recognised as the actual virus by the immune system for it to prepare memory T/B cells ?
that would be a loss of time, right ?


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

capito27 said:


> also, i guess i shouldn't say that vaccines don't actually contain the virus they are trying to make you prepared against but simply a genetically modified version of the vaccine virus to be recognised as the actual virus by the immune system for it to prepare memory T/B cells ?
> that would be a loss of time, right ?


Depends on the vaccine, different ways to do this as far as I know.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 14, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> I can already see this thread becoming a follow-up of the legendary milk one.


To be fair we have already had this thread a few times before http://gbatemp.net/threads/the-vaccination-thread.343214/ and the thread linked at the start of that one being one of the more notable.



clownb said:


> The US government actually created a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in 1986 to protect the pharmaceutical companies from direct lawsuits regarding vaccine illnesses and injuries. To date, the US government (taxpayers) has paid out over $3 billion to vaccine-injured Americans.


I have no idea as to the validity of that and thus I have to let it stand for now, however if the annual cost of the common cold is some 25 billion http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12227674 then three billion over three decades to prevent the long list of things significantly worse than the common cold and arguably no less prevalent when they did run around the joint.


----------



## Valkenhyn (Aug 14, 2016)

capito27 said:


> also, i guess i shouldn't say that vaccines don't actually contain the virus they are trying to make you prepared against but simply a genetically modified version of the vaccine virus to be recognised as the actual virus by the immune system for it to prepare memory T/B cells ?
> that would be a loss of time, right ?



Yes, the vaccine is a lot weaker. People dying as I mentioned in my post were either really weak and were gonna die anyway or the syringe had was dirty. In both cases it is the doctors fault not the vaccine.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Because Vaccines have been confirmed to be linked to various cancers / diseases.  There have been many doctors that have been killed for exposing this.  Pretty sad how parents don't research for their children.


Please post legitment medical studies to back up these claims.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Please post legitment medical studies to back up these claims.


Pro tip: There aren't any.


----------



## capito27 (Aug 14, 2016)

Valkenhyn said:


> Yes, the vaccine is a lot weaker. People dying as I mentioned in my post were either really weak and were gonna die anyway or the syringe had was dirty. In both cases it is the doctors fault not the vaccine.


well, if the immune system is too fucked to handle the vaccine virus, it's POSSIBLE that death could occur (read as highly unlikely), but yeah, if someone with a compromised immune system is inoculated any type of virus, they gunna have a bad time, so yeah, medical error


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

capito27 said:


> well, if the immune system is too fucked to handle the vaccine virus, it's POSSIBLE that death could occur (read as highly unlikely), but yeah, if someone with a compromised immune system is inoculated any type of virus, they gunna have a bad time, so yeah, medical error


Yeah, if your system is that broken it should already be known at it would be the fault of the doctor rather than the vaccine.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Pro tip: There aren't any.


I would love to see anything they can come up with.
Quite honestly anti-vaxxors are just plain delusional. Anywho who can ignore countless studies and decades of evidence are just stupid.
You know why we haven't suffer another massive plague? Because we have vaccines preventing them from happening. You know why smallpox is almost completely dead? Vaccines.
Anyone who can ignore these facts are just wrong.


----------



## The_Dragons_Mast (Aug 14, 2016)

Well if you want the basic reason it's simply because people in developed countries forgot the horror of the diseases they vaccinate against.

This days its all cancer & strokes no one have had a child die from a bad case of measles, a cousin forever paralyzed from polio or saw his uncle dieing screaming in agonizing pain from tetanus. When you see this stuff it gets to you & you will vaccinate your child even if there is a 0.1% chance shit can go wrong same way people fear cancer this days.

Funny enough enough we are in this era because of vaccines so if anti-vaxxers get there way sooner or later outbreaks will occur, people will see why they should vaccinate & the problem will solve itself.


----------



## capito27 (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.
> 
> Please try to keep this fairly civil.


also, to answer OP, people have an inherent feeling that vaccines are bad short term, i mean after getting the vaccine/s, your immune system is kicked on high gear, it's unpleasant and often makes you have fever and such, sometime people simply don't want their kinds to suffer like that so soon after being born, it's a fair point, parenting kicks in and you take that rash decision.
 as for any other thing claimed, like the fact that vaccines cause autism and such, as said, parenting kicks in and you don't want to risk that your kid could possibly become autistic, even if the chance is infinitesimal, (read as "if they talk about it, there must be some truth to it") they will still take that instead of the highly beneficial outcome of disease imunity, this is because of "negative outcome bias" simply, people inherently weight WAY much more negative outcomes when taking decisions (for more details, watch this, by veritasium)

those are my thought about why people take that decision not to vaccinate
it's totally unstructured, it's a mess but if you can read that, you'll (maybe) get my point ^^


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

Because parent's, at least some, are complete ignoramuses, and are uneducated to the point where they believe everything on the internet; i.e fearmongering, unsubstantiated claims that vaccinations contain harmful chemicals cause autism or some BS like that. Anti-vaxxers are just conspiracy theorists who want people to believe just for the sake of attention. I've had vaccinations, my brother has, everyone in my family had them, they're still alive and have no mental disorders, so....yeah. Anti-vaxxers are the reason certain diseases have made a resurgence, nice going.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> Because parent's, at least some, are complete ignoramuses, and are uneducated to the point where they believe everything on the internet; i.e fearmongering, unsubstantiated claims that vaccinations contain harmful chemicals cause autism or some BS like that. Anti-vaxxers are just conspiracy theorists who want people to believe just for the sake of attention. I've had vaccinations, my brother has, everyone in my family had them, they're still alive and have no mental disorders, so....yeah. Anti-vaxxers are the reason certain diseases have made a resurgence, nice going.


Every time I hear how "vaccines cause autism," it actually really disturbs me. Because it means that people would rather have a child die from preventable diseases than raise a child with autism.
Even though I know they don't cause autism, I am just pointing out that fact.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Every time I hear how "vaccines cause autism," it actually really disturbs me. Because it means that people would rather have a child die from preventable diseases than raise a child with autism.
> Even though I know they don't cause autism, I am just pointing out that fact.



They cause autism and many other forms of illness / disease.  It takes 10 minutes to do your own research instead of sounding stupid bashing someone who already has.  If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.  Theres a reason why america is #1 in cancer.  I truly cant believe how dumbed down some have become.  The mainstream studies information has all been supplied / fabricated by cagney / rothschild.  They took over the medical establishment at the turn of the century and by 1950's closed down all holistic hospitals.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!

Let me guess your gonna ask for proof or a link.  If you can find gba temp on the internet you can seek the truth. I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.


----------



## ihaveahax (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> They cause autism and many other forms of illness / disease.  It takes 10 minutes to do your own research instead of sounding stupid bashing someone who already has.  If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.  Theres a reason why america is #1 in cancer.  I truly cant believe how dumbed down some have become.  The mainstream studies information has all been supplied / fabricated by cagney / rothschild.  They took over the medical establishment at the turn of the century and by 1950's closed down all holistic hospitals.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!
> 
> Let me guess your gonna ask for proof or a link.  If you can find gba temp on the internet you can seek the truth. I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.


but I'm interested in what research you've done, since when I go look for proper research it's pretty much all against what you're saying.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> They cause autism and many other forms of illness / disease.  It takes 10 minutes to do your own research instead of sounding stupid bashing someone who already has.  If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.  Theres a reason why america is #1 in cancer.  I truly cant believe how dumbed down some have become.  The mainstream studies information has all been supplied / fabricated by cagney / rothschild.  They took over the medical establishment at the turn of the century and by 1950's closed down all holistic hospitals.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!
> 
> Let me guess your gonna ask for proof or a link.  If you can find gba temp on the internet you can seek the truth. I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.









My mom is a medical doctor who is 50 years old and has been practicing for over 20 years, if you want to play the age card and/or experience card.

Besides that, please provide some kind of evidence to support your claims other than "lol google it yourself." You're the one making the claim that goes against conventional wisdom, so you have to prove it.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> They cause autism and many other forms of illness / disease.  It takes 10 minutes to do your own research instead of sounding stupid bashing someone who already has.  If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.  Theres a reason why america is #1 in cancer.  I truly cant believe how dumbed down some have become.  The mainstream studies information has all been supplied / fabricated by cagney / rothschild.  They took over the medical establishment at the turn of the century and by 1950's closed down all holistic hospitals.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!
> 
> Let me guess your gonna ask for proof or a link.  If you can find gba temp on the internet you can seek the truth. I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.


I'm sure your hippy "research" tells you that your local witchdoctor's medicine is 100x more effective than "mainstream" medicine.  And I'm sure that "research" also found that homeopathic "medicines" are effective while "mainstream" medicine is gagging the truth.

And I'm sure you've got tons of proof to back it up, but you just don't want to provide it because... um... well probably because it doesn't stand up to peer review because it's all bullshit.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> They cause autism and many other forms of illness / disease.  It takes 10 minutes to do your own research instead of sounding stupid bashing someone who already has.  If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.  Theres a reason why america is #1 in cancer.  I truly cant believe how dumbed down some have become.  The studies information has all been supplied by cagney / rothschild.  They took ove the medical establishment at the turn of the century and by 1950's closed down all holistic hospitals.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!
> 
> Let me guess your gonna ask for proof or a link.  If you can find gba temp on the internet you can seek the truth. I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.


Site your sources, post the studies.
Just for the sake of looking, I looked up Cagney and found an actor and dog vaccines. Then I looked up Rothschild and found extremely questionable studies that didn't bother to site their sources. 
Your age doesn't prove anything nor does being a nutritionist prove anything either if you aren't going to site your sources. My sources have visible facts to back them up, everything from people living past their 30's/40's, the fact that we haven't died off in plague, the fact that countless diseases have died off because of vaccinations and countless other pieces of very visible evidence.
But again, I would like some actual studies that have been accepted by medical professionals.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 14, 2016)

ihaveamac said:


> but I'm interested in what research you've done, since when I go look for proper research it's pretty much all against what you're saying.


Research = antivaxx sites/FB pages apparently 
By the way it's incredibly funny how people who believe in pseudoscience everywhere always say "wake up!!!11!!" "do your own research!!!11!!".


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

This is a nice video, recommended from a video I had to watch for school work. ^^


I might end up looking up the original study for that autism lie, I remember raging about that when I heard of it a few years ago.


----------



## Valkenhyn (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.



Do you know how easy it is to lie on the internet?

For Example:


ModderFokker619 said:


> I'm an idiot


This quote IS A LIE. As far as I am aware you haven't said that, but I could say that you did and there would be people who believe me.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

Valkenhyn said:


> Do you know how easy it is to lie on the internet?
> 
> For Example:
> 
> This quote IS A LIE. As far as I am aware you haven't said that, but I could say that you did and there would be people who believe me.


That second quote is called paraphrasing.


----------



## Deleted-379826 (Aug 14, 2016)

if you don't vaccinate make sure you don't drink milk because milk apparently has diseases Vaccines protect you from! (Let these threads merge into a whole)


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> if you don't vaccinate make sure you don't drink milk because milk apparently has diseases Vaccines protect you from! (Let these threads merge into a whole)


Milk thread for life!


----------



## GamerzHell9137 (Aug 14, 2016)

Chary said:


> and ended up contracting sepsis due to a contaminated syringe at the doctor's office


You should have used them


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 14, 2016)

I think Penn Jillette can say it much better than I can:


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

Subtle Demise said:


> I think Penn Jillette can say it much better than I can:



This was posted already. :-P


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> This was posted already. :-P


It's always relevant anyway though


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> It's always relevant anyway though


I did not dispute that!


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> This was posted already. :-P


Damn! Oh well, I think the anti-vaxxers need to see it as much as possible.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.
> 
> Please try to keep this fairly civil.


- failure of public education
- inability to distinguish fact from opinion
- anti-science culture creating an open wound where snake-oil folk pounce on insecure parents and make them think they're doing a crappy job being a parent
- people who think "research" means looking at the first results in google


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> - failure of public education
> - inability to distinguish between fact from opinion
> - anti-science culture creating an open wound where snake-oil folk pounce on insecure parents and make them think they're doing a crappy job being a parent
> - people who think "research" means looking at the first results in google


"anti-science culture" is just sad. :-(


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> They cause autism and many other forms of illness / disease.  It takes 10 minutes to do your own research instead of sounding stupid bashing someone who already has.  If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.  Theres a reason why america is #1 in cancer.  I truly cant believe how dumbed down some have become.  The mainstream studies information has all been supplied / fabricated by cagney / rothschild.  They took over the medical establishment at the turn of the century and by 1950's closed down all holistic hospitals.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!
> 
> Let me guess your gonna ask for proof or a link.  If you can find gba temp on the internet you can seek the truth. I'm 40 years old now and am a nutritionist that has been researching this for 25 years.



I'd love to see citations for these alleged sources, vaccinations don't cause autism, anyone who tells you that is a big, fat liar and out to spread BS. Unless you have evidence, there is no reason to believe such quackery.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 14, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> I'd love to see citations for these alleged sources, vaccinations don't cause autism, anyone who tells you that is a big, fat liar and out to spread BS. Unless you have evidence, there is no reason to believe such quackery.


"DO YOUR RESEARCH!"

Quick question, do you know how to read and interpret a peer-reviewed scientific article?


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> "DO YOUR RESEARCH!"
> 
> Quick question, do you know how to read and interpret a peer-reviewed scientific article?


Uhm, you use ctrl+f to find key words to string together to prove your made up view.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I feel like this thread is being watched.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Pro tip: There aren't any.


There are dozens of published studies by reputable universities, doctors, and scientists which are easily found by anyone who cares to actually look. Here is one of the more infamous ones of the past century:

Cancer risk associated with simian virus 40 contaminated polio vaccine

Conversely, most studies espousing the safety and efficacy of vaccines are funded and conducted by the pharmaceutical companies that produce them and rarely if ever compare against a properly sized control group of unvaccinated subjects. It's like having an accused serial killer investigate his own crimes.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> "DO YOUR RESEARCH!"
> 
> Quick question, do you know how to read and interpret a peer-reviewed scientific article?



Indeed I do, but do people know how to not believe every single thing anti-vaxxer nutjobs spout off on the internet as well? They're drama queens and attention seekers, seeking to get fame and to spread fear by unsubstantiated facts. I really wish people would stop defending anti-vaxxers.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

clownb said:


> There are dozens of published studies by reputable universities, doctors, and scientists which are easily found by anyone who cares to actually look. Here is one of the more infamous ones of the past century:
> 
> Cancer risk associated with simian virus 40 contaminated polio vaccine
> 
> Conversely, most studies espousing the safety and efficacy of vaccines are funded and conducted by the pharmaceutical companies that produce them and rarely if ever compare against a properly sized control group of unvaccinated subjects. It's like having an accused serial killer investigate his own crimes.


This actually hasn't been a confirmed study and is only based some older vaccinations.
It also appears to be a very small risk and not even a confirmed risk.
Regardless, a few small cases are not enough to discredit the necessary need to vaccinate and the good that vaccinations have provided.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 14, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> Indeed I do, but do people know how to not believe every single thing anti-vaxxer nutjobs spout off on the internet as well? They're drama queens and attention seekers, seeking to get fame and to spread fear by unsubstantiated facts. I really wish people would stop defending anti-vaxxers.


oops, I think I meant to reply to the person you were replying to. My bad.

But agreed. I'm glad you can  but most people can't. If an individual can't read a journal article, that person has zero right, or reason, to quote it. basing an argument on a second-hand, third-hand, etc., interpretation is meaningless and just makes one look silly. Silly anti-vaxxers are the absolute worst about this, but I've seen some people who are on the correct side be completely wrong in their approach as well. Being right for all the wrong reasons is just as bad, after all.

If you can't read and understand the science, then trust those that do the science. If you don't want to trust them, then learn how to read a scientific article for yourself. It's a long and hard road, but totally worth it. You get to be annoyed at all the science in movies. Don't know how to get started? Ask your local science teacher. If they don't know how to, complain to their boss, then go to whoever is in charge of the science division of the highest university near you. They tend to be pretty helpful people.

Everyone's gotta start somewhere. I'd just wish they didn't start after their kid dies.


----------



## Haloman800 (Aug 14, 2016)

I wasn't vaccinated; I take vitamins daily and I haven't been sick in years. Come at me, bros.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> I wasn't vaccinated; I take vitamins daily and I haven't been sick in years. Come at me, bros.


Why am I not surprised that you are both in this thread and that you said that


----------



## RemixDeluxe (Aug 14, 2016)

KingBlank said:


> For the same reason people dont upgrade to windows 10


I'd say this is more akin to not wanting fillings when you have cavities.

Poor comparison for vaccines.


----------



## ieatpixels (Aug 14, 2016)

If anything there's more suffering in having the vaccinations.
The body has a great immune system that forcing it to be exposed to diseases is destructive.
There have been massive reports of side effects as a result of the vaccinations.
They can cause brain damage and ruin people's lives.
Look at Robert De Niro's son, they said overnight there was a change after having the vaccination. He's has full autism now.
Why undergo such an intrusive and risky procedure.

I know a few people who have never been vaccinated, all of them are perfectly healthy.
To say children will suffer if they don't get immunised is a big assumption.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

And then I remembered why I'm not a fan of these threads *sigh*.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Aug 14, 2016)

Because people...ugh... People are people, and I'll leave it with this...


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Why am I not surprised that you are both in this thread and that you said that


Because if it's controversial, you can always be safe knowing he's going to be on the opposing side and then follow it up with a wild statement.


----------



## Ricken (Aug 14, 2016)

I always get sick after Flu shots

but other shots are really must-gets


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

ieatpixels said:


> If anything there's more suffering in having the vaccinations. *Please present evidence. Credited medical documents to validate this claim.*
> The body has a great immune system that forcing it to be exposed to diseases is destructive. *Yet humans were nearly killed off multiple times through history due to massive plagues. Notice how that hasn't happened since vaccinations became standard practice. I wonder if there's a trend here.*
> There have been massive reports of side effects as a result of the vaccinations. *Name one with a creditable source.*
> They can cause brain damage and ruin people's lives. *Previous statement, creditable source.*
> ...


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> And then I remembered why I'm not a fan of these threads *sigh*.


It's much better than I expected!


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

ieatpixels said:


> If anything there's more suffering in having the vaccinations.


Oh boy this should be fun to read


> The body has a great immune system that forcing it to be exposed to diseases is destructive.


Congrats! You've literally just given us the purpose of vaccines! They are a supplement to the immune system.
Think of it this way; if you're a professional football player that's won every game but hasn't trained for a specific play, and that play is used, the team's probably gonna fall apart, right? Same principle, the white blood cells in your immune system need to know what they're dealing with.


> There have been massive reports of side effects as a result of the vaccinations.


Well then you shouldn't have too big of a problem citing sources then, should you?


> They can cause brain damage and ruin people's lives.


Lol wut


> Look at Robert De Niro's son, they said overnight there was a change after having the vaccination. He's has full autism now.


AUTISM. CAN. NOT. BE. CAUGHT. HOLY. SHIT
And there's no such thing as "full autism" lol there are certain _traits _that individual autistic people show depending on their own individual personality types


> Why undergo such an intrusive and risky procedure.


If you think an injection is intrusive I'd hate to see what you think of surgery. And despite what the vaccine conspiracy band will try to tell you, there is a very negligible risk that anything bad will happen to you, and the only thing that really _could _happen is that you could catch a weakened strain of the illness it's trying to protect you from (which according to you strengthens the immune system anyway)


> I know a few people who have never been vaccinated, all of them are perfectly healthy.
> To say children will suffer if they don't get immunised is a big assumption.


And it's an even bigger one to say they won't.

And you know what, let's not make this about the ONE child for a second, ok? Even though that may be a little difficult because it seems like all anti-vaxxers I've talked to are so effing self-centered. No. Let's assume that *gasp* this may actually be in a school setting, and there is a child in that school who for whatever reason (weak immune system, chronic illness, etc.) CANNOT get a vaccine. That child is relying on what is referred to as "herd immunity." That basically means that because their immune system can't fight off the illness, they are relying on the people around them to not have it in the first place. FOR EVERY PERSON that is not vaccinated that is in contact with that child, a literal RISK OF DEATH increases, meaning they either die or get pulled out of school and get hopelessly behind whenever something as simple and common as mono breaks out in the school.

AND ANOTHER THING! Please, please PLEASE tell me that as a parent, EVEN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE TO CATCH AUTISM, you would not rather that your child had meningitis than autism. Or gonorrhea than autism. Or *insert awful disease here* than autism. Or, even, DIE than autism.
Because if that is the case, I hate to judge, but I honestly think you should rethink your role as a parent.

@Crystal the Glaceon beat me to some of this but I have more stuff here. Please, if you're ACTUALLY interested in listening, read both


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Oh boy this should be fun to read
> 
> Congrats! You've literally just given us the purpose of vaccines! They are a supplement to the immune system.
> Think of it this way; if you're a professional football player that's won every game but hasn't trained for a specific play, and that play is used, the team's probably gonna fall apart, right? Same principle, the white blood cells in your immune system need to know what they're dealing with.
> ...


All the autistic people I've known are genuinely nice people. Just be nice, be patient, and they will be a great friend.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> All the autistic people I've known are genuinely nice people. Just be nice, be patient, and they will be a great friend.


ExACTLY


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

I feel like people have forgotten what life used to be like before vaccinations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
Pretty amazing how in the late 20th/21st century the death toll just kind of dropped. I wonder if there's a reason for that?


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I feel like people have forgotten what life used to be like before vaccinations.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
> Pretty amazing how in the late 20th/21st century the death toll just kind of dropped. I wonder if there's a reason for that?


I suspect Edward Jenner.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> I suspect Edward Jenner.


I blame Obama and ghosts!


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I blame Obama and ghosts!


I blame "them durty atheist liberals." (lol)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



grossaffe said:


> Global Warming probably killed off disease.


Don't forget, global warming is not real, just like how vaccines are murder. (again, lol)


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I feel like people have forgotten what life used to be like before vaccinations.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
> Pretty amazing how in the late 20th/21st century the death toll just kind of dropped. I wonder if there's a reason for that?


Global Warming probably killed off disease.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> I blame "them durty atheist liberals." (lol)


You forgot "American-hating gay Mexican"


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I feel like people have forgotten what life used to be like before vaccinations.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
> Pretty amazing how in the late 20th/21st century the death toll just kind of dropped. I wonder if there's a reason for that?


Yes, I feel almost like we need to get some of these "natural" people in a quarantined area and give them rats with the bubonic plague or something. :-/


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> Yes, I feel almost like we need to get some of these "natural" people in a quarantined area and give them rats with the bubonic plague or something. :-/


You wouldn't need to take it that far. Just give them space and let them have their own way. They'll Darwin Award themselves out of existence for us.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Global Warming probably killed off disease.


10/10
/best thread


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Global Warming probably killed off disease.


Hahahahahahaahaaaa that's what you think


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I feel like people have forgotten what life used to be like before vaccinations.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
> Pretty amazing how in the late 20th/21st century the death toll just kind of dropped. I wonder if there's a reason for that?



It's almost as if the immune system is aided by vaccinations or something  Crazy how it's helped more people than it's harmed, I know


----------



## ThePanchamBros (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> Because Vaccines have been confirmed to be linked to various cancers / diseases.  There have been many doctors that have been killed for exposing this.  Pretty sad how parents don't research for their children.


I think your an overprotective parent aren't you


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 14, 2016)

ThePanchamBros said:


> I think your an overprotective parent aren't you


I'm hoping he's not a parent.


----------



## ThePanchamBros (Aug 14, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> I'm hoping he's not a parent.


if he is I feel bad for his kid when he gets ebola


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

ThePanchamBros said:


> if he is I feel bad for his kid when he gets ebola



If his kid gets Ebola, diphtheria or influenza, he'll have  no one else to blame but himself, and believe me, leaving someone's immune system compromised like that is only gonna make it all the more hellacious to deal with.


----------



## rasputin (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I feel like people have forgotten what life used to be like before vaccinations.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
> Pretty amazing how in the late 20th/21st century the death toll just kind of dropped. I wonder if there's a reason for that?



clean water and sanitation


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 14, 2016)

Mostly because people are stupid.  The don't need any evidence to think something is bad.

That being said, I am fairly certain that there are people who are allergic and can't get them for medical reasons.  I'm too tired to look that up though, so don't take my word on it.  I could easily be wrong.



Chary said:


> I had vaccines back in 2008, and ended up contracting sepsis *due to a contaminated syringe at the doctor's office*. 15 days straight with a 104.5F fever, and nearly died. Do I hate vaccines and incompetent doctors? Absolutely. Would I recommend that parents avoid vaccinations for their children? Heck no. I'd rather not die of smallpox because someone else was too afraid they'd get autism from a needle.


As you yourself pointed out, vaccines didn't get you sick.  It was the contaminated syringe.

Smallpox isn't a risk in the US anymore because of vaccinations.  That's why the vaccine is no longer administered.


----------



## rasputin (Aug 14, 2016)

yes it was a contaminated needle, contaminated with vaccine, mostly a mixture of poisonous metals


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2016)

I was vaccinated when I was little, but I haven't been vaccinated at all recently because.... Well I don't actually know lmao

I know my parents aren't those nutjobs who think vaccinations cause autism, otherwise both me and my sister wouldn't have been vaccinated in the firstplace.


----------



## vayanui8 (Aug 14, 2016)

I really don't know why some people continue to spread misinformation about vaccinations. The myth that they cause autism is blatantly false. At best there are rare and extreme cases where someone may react poorly to a vaccine, but I'd wager the chances of you reacting poorly to the vaccine are much lower than you getting a disease without having it. That said, if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated thats their call. I'd certainly argue that not getting vaccinated is a poor decision and I wouldn't recommend it, but I'm not going to force someone to do it if they're thoroughly convinced that its harmful for some reason.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> Mostly because people are stupid.  The don't need any evidence to think something is bad.
> 
> That being said, I am fairly certain that there are people who are allergic and can't get them for medical reasons.  I'm too tired to look that up though, so don't take my word on it.  I could easily be wrong.
> 
> ...




And if anti-vaxxers have their way, disease might make a resurgence, this is why we can't have nice things; people on the extreme ends of the spectrum (for or against), will likely try to spout out falsities and so-called "infallible" arguments. To make their case even more implausible, they don't even take the time to post or cite articles, sad really.  Reminds me a lot of animal-rights activists in a way, as in, refusing to change their beliefs while trying to state a "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality, seemingly cramming their beliefs down others' throats, so to speak *Sigh*. 

That's my take on it.


----------



## rasputin (Aug 14, 2016)

If you have a child, do the research. That child relies on you to do the right thing. This doesn't mean just listening to goverment corparatist propaganda news channels like CNN. Actually know what is in that syringe being pumped into your baby's tiny fragile body.

Many parents refused thalidemide and we're proven right to do so, despite government and doctors advice, propaganda and demonisation.

Vaccines are obviously a good thing, that doesn't mean there are no bad ones.


----------



## mgrev (Aug 14, 2016)

if i had children i would vaccinate them. i was always vaccinated


----------



## Super.Nova (Aug 14, 2016)

I'm doctor and this is one of the commonest and most boring subjects to explain to the less informed parents..

To put it as simple and short as possible, vaccinations have indeed been linked to some diseases but their benefits vastly outweigh their cons.
Countless diseases are not even seen anymore because of vaccinations and the prevalence of vaccination side-effects are so dismal they're nearly uncountable.
*They still exist, though*

In the end, the choice is yours to get vaccinated or not.
Doctor's opinion is just an opinion (thought it's based scientifically, unlike many people repeating what they hear without knowing the hows and whys).


----------



## Lord M (Aug 14, 2016)

Because the vaccines is the way of masons to poison you since your birth.


----------



## Jack Daniels (Aug 14, 2016)

about the autism fact, autism can be seen before being born, so it's impossible to get it by a needle injection! you'll be born with it or it's not autism! stop being stubborn! damn idiots.
vaccination and the bible: don't make one sick, let god sort things out... really that's your opinion? sorry neighbors your kids died for my kid had a contaminated desease, though in the end god made the decision makes it okay? really why did god ever made a brain if his kind don't start using it.
vaccination was introduced as the only effective way to get the black plague and it still is today. there aren't any cures for most deceases! but we can however vaccinate so we don't have to.


----------



## mashers (Aug 14, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> If you can't research for yourself then you already lost.


NO. Science doesn't work like that. _You _are making the claim so the burden of proof is on _you_; if _you _can't provide evidence for your claim then _you _have 'already lost' (assuming that by 'already lost' you mean 'made a claim but failed to provide any evidence to substantiate it').

I'm sick of hear arguments like this. 'You can't prove vaccinations don't cause autism/cancer/madeupdisease so therefore they must, and unless you can prove they don't I'll continue to believe it'; 'you can't prove god doesn't exist therefore it must, and unless you can prove it doesn't I'll continue to believe it'; 'you can't prove I wasn't abducted by aliens therefore I must have been, abless you can prove I wasn't I'll continue to believe I was'.

This is the most fucking stupid kind of argument. It's so stupid it's even called an 'argument from ignorance'. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the most basic reasoning.

If you make a claim, such as vaccines cause disease/autism/whatever, or the government is conspiring against us, or you were abducted by aliens, or god exists, then the responsibility is entirely yours to provide evidence for it. Anybody who makes such claims and then says 'research it yourself and you'll find the proof' is so transparently deluded that it's not even worth having a discussion with them. If you had evidence you would gladly provide it to prove that naysayers wrong. The fact that you are so reticent merely demonstrates that you not only have no evidence, but you KNOW you have no evidence, and are hoping others will take your word for it that there is some rather than calling your bluff. Either that or you're deluded and irrational.

If you actually want to have a conversation about this then by all means list some citations for the claims you're making. But until you do that, I'll dismiss your anecdotes in the same way I would those of a religious fanatic, an alien abductee or a child teasing another by taunting 'if you don't know now then you never will'. Because your logic is as valid as any of those.


----------



## mgrev (Aug 14, 2016)

heck i'd vaccinate myself even if i got "autism from a needle"


----------



## Cyan (Aug 14, 2016)

Why there's no specific illness or virus or vaccine type talked in this thread?
People seems to put ALL vaccine and illness into the same bag.
People who say "vaccine are....." (good or bad) without saying which one are doing propaganda for their side, doctors learned that it was good (all vaccines!), anti-vaccination group learned it was bad (all vaccines!) and they continue to claim without thinking by themselves.


There are viruses which are still largely common and vaccine needed, there are some which are not needed.
You don't get vaccine for Cholera when you are a baby, or even adult, do you? because it's NOT needed to vaccine ALL the population. only the travelers in risky countries, because it's not very effective and last very shortly. (6 months)
Though, you get tetanus vaccine, because it's still present, and the vaccine is very effective.
There were a mass vaccination in France for hepatitis B in 90's, while they produced REALLY bad (and confirmed ! not conspiracy'ed !) product with 10 time the effect, putting people in danger. some people got nothing (yes, not all are ill, but they got order to never get shot for hepatitis ever again), some got sclerosis, and other got fibromyalgia but this one is not officially recognized even if affecting brain like sclerosis.


but there are many other vaccine that are not needed and that some coutries are enforcing (either mandatory by law, or by short vaccine plan like H3N1 flu epidemic). some of these vaccines, particularly the flu vaccine, was ineffective (like most flu shots) because it's evolving and pharmaceutic groups are doing their vaccine blindly, hoping their formula will be the right one for the year.

So, there are different vaccine type : known and effective one, random and ineffective one.
added to that, some pharmaceutic groups are adding Immunostimulant, usually heavy metal particles (aluminum for the most of them, which is highly toxic for the body) to increase the effect. but some people have issues or counter indication with some of these products. And they are NOT informing the public, and they are not testing people before injecting the shot! That's what is bad, not the vaccine itself, but the fact that they are doing something blindly, covered by their so lovely and wrong "prevention/affection ratio".

They have the possibility to choose whether to add the Immunostimulant, and usually they give pregnant women the one without it.
In France, during the mass vaccination plan for Flu H3N1, the pharmaceutical group created only shots WITH Immunostimulant. So a lot of people refused to take it, and nobody got the flu and that's when the "anti-vaccine" wave became more popular, because the government did a very aggressive campaign to vaccine everyone, without choices, telling that "pregnant women" shouldn't take the one with Immunostimulant, insinuating that the one with it was bad [for children]!
They produces million of flu shots, and they never sold them because all people refused to take it. they had for billions € of lost.

There are also vaccine which gives you the virus you want to be protected from. for example yellow fever can administer yellow fever and kill the patient instead of immunizing. why ? because they don't do tests to check if the patient will be reacting or not.


So, saying vaccine are good or bad is not black or white. it all depends which one, when and why.
it also depends the way they are produced (with or without Immunostimulant), and if the people are reactive or not to the product, and because they never test people's immunity before injecting it. That should be mandatory, first to see if the patient will react or is allergic, and second to prevent the body to react to poisoning by over-injecting drug if the body is still protected. (I know someone who reacted badly to renew tetanus shot, with high fever for a week)


Also, I never talked about being against vaccinating babies, I'm talking only about consent adults who can take their own decision for themselves.
Also, not trying to influence or tell people what to do. don't try to enforce your decision to others either.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

After careful consideration, my wife and myself decided to ignore the insanity pushed upon us by professional drug dealers when it came to vaccinating our son. I don't dare attempt to aggressively change the minds of those who deem the injection of mercury, aluminum, dead dogs, monkey guts, and aborted fetuses intravenously into the bloodstream as a necessary practice, but we would sometimes appreciate if others could simply allow us to ignore this witchcraft as we decide what goes into the bodies of our own family. Watching the outbreaks of generally benign illnesses occur primarily among those who are fully vaccinated has been less than convincing as well. I'm not here to change minds, but I believe I have already demonstrated that the untested injections of poison into our youth are not completely without risk. Not everyone is willing to take that risk when it seems vaccine-injury is more likely to damage our offspring than the diseases they are falsely purported to prevent.


----------



## Cyan (Aug 14, 2016)

clownb said:


> After *careful consideration*
> [...]the untested injections of poison


If I could like your post more than once, I'll do 
that's the point, think and take the decision. don't follow other people just because they say it's good or bad. think by yourself.

they are tested, but using a self created ratio value of good/bad side effect.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

Okay, since I've seen the mercury claim come up a couple of times in this last page, I figured I might as well respond.

The substance which contains mercury in vaccines is thiomersal, which contains ethylmercury. Unlike methylmercury, a compound found commonly in fish, ethylmercury isn't known to be a danger to the human body. Thiomersal is often used as an antiseptic and an antifungal agent.

The reason it was used in vaccines was to act as a preservative for the multi-vial vaccines that were used for children's shots in the united states pre-2001. It was taken out after 2001, despite the fact that studies conducted and cited by the CDC show no correlation between vaccine ingredients, specifically thiomersal, and autisim.

So to the people who are complaining about mercury - it was never a valid argument, and now that it's been removed it's an even less valid argument.


----------



## Amapola62 (Aug 14, 2016)

I'm not vaccinated...my parents are against it...Not because they believe it cause autisms...but they think it can cause other diseases such as cancer, or sclerosis or even cause the disease one is vaccinating against...

I think they were advised against vacination by an homeopath...

Does that mean said Homeopath believed in hogwash/junk science?


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> I'm not vaccinated...my parents are against it...Not because they believe it cause autisms...but they think it can cause other diseases such as cancer, or sclerosis or even cause the disease one is vaccinating against...
> 
> I think they were advised against vacination by an homeopath...
> 
> Does that mean said Homeopath believed in hogwash/junk science?


might wanna get one now dude


----------



## Amapola62 (Aug 14, 2016)

Well...I was vaccinated against Tetanus, Polio and Diphteria and that's it...And I think I need to get it reinjected because I think it's at least 10 years since I got it...

End I'm a girl...^^


----------



## mashers (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> I'm not vaccinated...my parents are against it...Not because they believe it cause autisms...but they think it can cause other diseases such as cancer, or sclerosis or even cause the disease one is vaccinating against...
> 
> I think they were advised against vacination by an homeopath...
> 
> Does that mean said Homeopath believed in hogwash/junk science?


If said homeopath based his/her beliefs on anecdotal stories or any other non-evidenced based practice then yes, it was total hogwash. As it the case with most homeopaths.


----------



## Amapola62 (Aug 14, 2016)

I was sure Homeopaths had to study standard medecine before branching out to Homeopathy and had a state sanctionned diploma and therefore knew what they said...

Guess I was wrong...


----------



## mashers (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> I was sure Homeopaths had to study standard medecine before branching out to Homeopathy and had a state sanctionned diploma and therefore knew what they said...


I have no idea about other countries, but here in the UK there is no requirement. HCPC does not recognise homeopathy as a healthcare profession. It is not a protected title under law, so anybody can call themselves a homeopathy practitioner and give any advice they like. There is absolutely no legally regulated professional body for these bogus practitioners, no academically robust formal training, and no scientific evidence whatsoever for what they claim. The bodies which have been set up to give 'alternative medicine' the appearance of being any more respectable than advice given by somebody's great great grandmother are similarly lacking in any legal obligation to the public, which means it's perfectly legal for them to claim to oversee the practice and conduct of unlicensed, untrained 'professionals' who think that diluting a toxin to an inconsequential concentration, or putting stones on someone's body, or waving a crystal around their head will somehow cure them. Look how all that bullshit worked for Steve Jobs, who tried all that crap to cure his pancreatic cancer, and subsequently died of said cancer.

For all the scientific evidence supporting these practices, you may as well make yourself comfortable and prepare to die.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Okay, since I've seen the mercury claim come up a couple of times in this last page, I figured I might as well respond.
> 
> The substance which contains mercury in vaccines is thiomersal, which contains ethylmercury. Unlike methylmercury, a compound found commonly in fish, ethylmercury isn't known to be a danger to the human body. Thiomersal is often used as an antiseptic and an antifungal agent.
> 
> ...


Gee, I feel much better since it was only in the old stuff. Just like when you guys told me there were no studies and I provided an example, it was too old to be valid because it was from the 1960s even though it affected 95 million human beings well into the 1990s. Not a valid example because we are assured things are more controlled and better now. Please...


----------



## Amapola62 (Aug 14, 2016)

According to wikipedia: France and Denmark mandate licenses to diagnose any illness or dispense of any product whose purpose is to treat any illness.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

clownb said:


> Gee, I feel much better since it was only in the old stuff. Just like when you guys told me there were no studies and I provided an example, it was too old to be valid because it was from the 1960s even though it affected 95 million human beings well into the 1990s. Not a valid example because we are assured things are more controlled and better now. Please...


No, I even said that it was never a valid example as thiomersal _never_ could have caused autism or mercury poisoning. If it contained methylmercury I'd be concerned, but ethylmercury is nothing to be worried about.

Also, maybe I'm blind but I don't see anything about your study in the last couple of pages.


----------



## mashers (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> According to wikipedia: France and Denmark mandate licenses to diagnose any illness or dispense of any product whose purpose is to treat any illness.


You would need to be clear on how homeopaths carry out their practice. For example:

_"Oh you've been vomiting since starting to drink tap water? You must have chlorine poisoning. Here, let me provide you with a massively diluted solution of chlorine to treat that."_
Clearly diagnosing a condition and dispensing said 'treatment', and therefore would need regulation under the law you cited.

_"Oh you think you might have chlorine poisoning? Hmm, well homeopathy would suggest maybe taking a really diluted amount of chlorine. That might make you feel better"_
Neither diagnosing nor dispensing anything. But the "practitioner" has endorsed the client's decision that they have been poisoned by chlorine, made a suggestion (not a prescription or dispensed anything). When the client continues to suffer symptoms, or they get worse, and demands their money back from the homeopath, or sues them, they can say "well I didn't tell you what was wrong. And I didn't tell you what to do about it."


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

My argument was about SV40 and the polio vaccine, not thimerosal and mercury poisoning.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

clownb said:


> My argument was about SV40 and the polio vaccine, not thimerosal and mercury poisoning.


Ah, I found your study. My previous post was in response to some claims about mercury I'd seen, but I can respond to this, too.

Besides the fact that your study doesn't seem to have been peer reviewed, it also doesn't fully support your claim, as the conclusion states


> These data suggest that there may be an increased incidence of certain cancers among the 98 million persons exposed to contaminated polio vaccine in the U.S.; further investigations are clearly justified.



It doesn't say outright that "SV40 causes cancer," it says that "it's a possibility that should be further researched."


----------



## Amapola62 (Aug 14, 2016)

If I were to get vaccinated...should I d it behind my parent's back? Should I get all the vaccines I've missed in one go or progressively like a couple each months? Are some vaccine more necessary than others (I don't want multiple sclerosis if i can avoid it)...


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

I'd like to see some of these specific studies you claim exist along with the control group numbers to prove the safety and efficacy of vaccines.  Are there any not by Bayer or Merck?


----------



## Cyan (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> If I were to get vaccinated...should I d it behind my parent's back? Should I get all the vaccines I've missed in one go or progressively like a couple each months? Are some vaccine more necessary than others (I don't want multiple sclerosis if i can avoid it)...


I would suggest being tested before doing renewal of all your old vaccines at the same time.
You are probably still protected against tetanus, even if it's more than 10 years. why do it again?

DTP are the 3 mandatory* vaccine in France, but like I said, they are not produced "alone" anymore, but in 5-in-1 only.
so anyway, even if you don't want them all at the same time, you'll end doing it at the same time, even the non mandatory.

*mandatory does not mean being "à jour" (doing it every 10 years), but only getting the needed shot before 6 years old (before school). There's no obligation to renew the vaccine every 10 years. You can tell your doctor you don't want it, he has to ask why. If you just say "I fear needles" or "I heard on internet or other people talking about things..." it's not a good reason. If you tell him you are against it and don't want to be vaccined and it's your own decision, he can't force you. Though, he will have obligation to inform your work that you are against it (because some work has mandatory vaccination, like medical, hospital, firefighter or children care centers).

My sister got fibromyalgia from hepatitisB vaccine. so, just think and talk with your family before doing anything and take your own decision.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> If I were to get vaccinated...should I d it behind my parent's back? Should I get all the vaccines I've missed in one go or progressively like a couple each months? Are some vaccine more necessary than others (I don't want multiple sclerosis if i can avoid it)...


You'd be wasting your time, somebody's money, and your own natural immune system. If you really did miss your scheduled vaccines, your parents must really love you enough to have looked into it to spare you a lifetime of being a poisoned mutant.


----------



## Amapola62 (Aug 14, 2016)

Well I never was vaccinated agaisnt : Tuberculosis, pertussis and measles...so should I get vaccinated against those now?


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

Cyan said:


> My sister got fibromyalgia from hepatitisB vaccine. so, just think and talk with your family before doing anything and take your own decision.


That's pretty strange and depressing. Hepatitis vaccines have long been an excuse to test other chemical cocktails that end up debilitating the recipients.


----------



## Cyan (Aug 14, 2016)

I think you should talk about it with your doctor, but doctors are often pro-vaccination. they have been teach that vaccination is good, so they will always try to promote it.
see with him what are the the risks you could contact these illnesses.

measles is often a kid infection. I don't know enough to tell you what you should do. the ROR vaccine is recommended but not mandatory.
like Chickenpox if you have it as a kid, you won't get it adult, or else you could get Zona. I don't know if there are vaccine for that. some countries have it mandatory before school. In France there's no requirement, kids just get it and get immune by themselves.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 14, 2016)

You should consider yourself lucky to have never gone for any of those jabs. Don't even worry about it.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

rasputin said:


> yes it was a contaminated needle, contaminated with vaccine, mostly a mixture of poisonous metals


I'm sorry, but there's no nicer way to put this; you're an idiot


Amapola62 said:


> Well...I was vaccinated against Tetanus, Polio and Diphteria and that's it...And I think I need to get it reinjected because I think it's at least 10 years since I got it...
> 
> End I'm a girl...^^


You're also probably going to want to get the standard rounds against STDs and junk that you're supposed to get while you're 16. Trust me, it's worth it, especially if you're sexually active and have yet to contract an STD


Cyan said:


> I think you should talk about it with your doctor, but doctors are often pro-vaccination. they have been teach that vaccination is good, so they will always try to promote it.
> see with him the risk that you could contact these illnesses.


While I agree with the point you're making, the way you're making it is flawed. Medically and legally doctors have to give their patients the best advice that they have knowledge of and aren't allowed to be biased (although there are drug companies that will try and push their products rather aggressively, but that's another subject entirely). Generally if a doctor is taught by the higher-ups that something is "good," it's because it is.


> measles is often a kid infection. I don't know enough to tell you what you should do. the ROR vaccine is recommended but not mandatory.
> like Chickenpox if you have it as a kid, you won't get it adult, or else you could get Zona. I don't know if there are vaccine for that. some countries have it mandatory before school. In France there's no requirement, kids just get it and get immune by themselves.


Yes, but you CAN get shingles if you've had the chicken pox, which is something you definitely DON'T want

Incidentally, there's a vaccine for that


----------



## mashers (Aug 14, 2016)

With regard to this huge drug company / government conspiracy which some people seem to be suggesting... If the government or drug companies wanted to con the population by giving phoney treatments just to make money, do you really think they would do it using medicines which cost billions to develop? Or would they try to convince people that 'alternative' treatments work, since they're much cheaper? A single treatment of chemotherapy can cost hundreds or even thousands. But "here, drink some water with a little bit of cancer floating in it" would cost next to nothing (glass + water + tiny bit of cancer + hourly rate for conman).

The reason why this doesn't happen is twofold: firstly, the medical profession is actually interested in treating illness, and secondly because proper scientifically developed medicine works and hocus pocus bullshit like homeopathy doesn't. It just fucking doesn't. If it did, do you really think countries would invest trillions in treatments for diseases when they could just prescribe a homeopathic 'remedy'?

The proof of science's contribution to medicine is obvious. You know what's really good at killing cancer? Chemotherapy, radiotherapy and surgical excision. Know of anything that kills bacteria? Oh, that would be antibiotics. Got Parkinson's disease? Have some Levodopa, anticholinergics, MAO-B inhibitors, or any number of other drug treatments. These treatments actually work. You can read the randomised controlled drug trials for yourself if you don't believe me. Where are the peer-reviewed, randomised controlled studies for homeopathy?

As for the negative effects of modern vaccines, again show me a randomised controlled study which proves it. Show me a study where half the participants were given a real vaccine and the other half were given a placebo; prove to me that the ones in the experimental group had a higher prevalence of autism, cancer, ME, fibromyalgia, or any other disease; if there aren't any, then you have no business using hearsay and anecdotal fearmongering to try to convince people to refuse vaccination.

Failing to vaccinate a child is neglectful. Children in developing countries die every day from diseases which are preventable through vaccination. Consider yourself fucking lucky you live in a society where these things are available for EVERYONE. Look at the scientific evidence rather than the scaremongering of a few people who had a bad experience, and realise that there's no need to be so paranoid. Not everyone is out to kill you - some organisations do actually want to do work which make other people's lives better.


----------



## DinohScene (Aug 14, 2016)

People that don't vaccinate their children don't deserve to have children.

We owe our long lives to vaccination and modern medicine.
300 years ago, things where a lot different and even 800 years ago, people barely reached 50.
One was considered the village elder if one where to reach 50.

Only quacks and fear mongers tell you otherwise.


----------



## Cyan (Aug 14, 2016)

800 years ago, people lived in their shit (literally).


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 14, 2016)

rasputin said:


> clean water and sanitation


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy#Disease_outbreaks


----------



## rasputin (Aug 14, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm sorry, but there's no nicer way to put this; you're an idiot



yes you could have and your definitely not sorry


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

rasputin said:


> yes you could have and your definitely not sorry


Actually I'm not sure there is. You've been presented with a mountain of evidence to the contrary of what you've been claiming in this thread alone and you refuse to even consider it


----------



## rasputin (Aug 14, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Actually I'm not sure there is. You've been presented with a mountain of evidence to the contrary of what you've been claiming in this thread alone and you refuse to even consider it



cdc has been caught many times withholding evidence and covering up


----------



## LittleFlame (Aug 14, 2016)

Cyan said:


> 800 years ago, people lived in their shit (literally).


why do you think we live a lot longer these days


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

rasputin said:


> cdc has been caught many times withholding evidence and covering up


Listen, I'm a conspiracy theorist. I think Bush knew about 9/11 before it happened and allowed it to happen to exploit it, I think the NSA is tapping US citizens' communications, I think google sells user data to the government in order to avoid monopoly laws, but even I don't claim that the CDC is covering shit up.

The science behind vaccines is sound and there's little to no _valid data_ that is against it.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

rasputin said:


> cdc has been caught many times withholding evidence and covering up


What are you referring to specifically


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 14, 2016)

Anti-vaxxers be like



> My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, "If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately." Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me: "Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through." I agreed. At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because vaccines gave me cancer anyway.


----------



## Frederica Bernkastel (Aug 14, 2016)

darwinism.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 14, 2016)

Some times the immune system isnt powerfull enough even for weak version of the disease. In that case the person can die from the vaccinate. I know a person that was close to that... its real. The problem is ppl blame the vaccinate and then others listen to them and dont do it themselves. So, ppl are dumb.


Sorry for bad english, I aint native speaker...


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

natanelho said:


> Some times the immune system isnt powerfull enough even for weak version of the disease. In that case the person can die from the vaccinate. I know a person that was close to that... its real. The problem is ppl blame the vaccinate and then others listen to them and dont do it themselves. So, ppl are dumb.
> 
> 
> Sorry for bad english, I aint native speaker...


And again, this is where herd immunity comes in


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 14, 2016)

clownb said:


> After careful consideration, my wife and myself decided to ignore the insanity pushed upon us by professional drug dealers when it came to vaccinating our son. I don't dare attempt to aggressively change the minds of those who deem the *injection of mercury, aluminum, dead dogs, monkey guts, and aborted fetuses intravenously* into the bloodstream as a necessary practice, but we would sometimes appreciate if others could simply allow us to ignore this *witchcraft* as we decide what goes into the bodies of our own family. Watching the outbreaks of generally benign illnesses occur primarily among those who are fully vaccinated has been less than convincing as well. I'm not here to change minds, but I believe I have already demonstrated that the untested injections of poison into our youth are not completely without risk. Not everyone is willing to take that risk when it seems vaccine-injury is more likely to damage our offspring than the diseases they are falsely purported to prevent.


Troll confirmed. You get a large pamphlet that lists all ingredients and why they are there.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 14, 2016)

By reading some of the replies here, I seriously wonder why Jenner's discovery was used in the first place. I mean seriously, his vaccine injection totally did not cure variola during that period, right?


----------



## Haloman800 (Aug 14, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Why am I not surprised that you are both in this thread and that you said that


Because, I'm the best. And like Donald Trump (and unlike Hillary Clinton), I don't get sick.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 14, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> Because, I'm the best. And like Donald Trump (and unlike Hillary Clinton), I don't get sick.


And like Donald Trump, you have a oversized ego.


----------



## Cyan (Aug 14, 2016)

LittleFlame said:


> why do you think we live a lot longer these days


sum of multiple factors, geographical, political, scientific, social, etc.
Don't tell me vaccination is the only factor to let you live a long life. (vaccine for varicela doesn't let you live longer)

of course vaccine worked and was needed for lot of real plea centuries ago, but not ALL vaccines are needed to live long, mandatory, nor effective (flu is ineffective because too random). Like I said, it's not black OR white.
I never said vaccines was never useful nor we shouldn't ever get vaccinated. we needed a lot of them centuries ago and that was a good thing.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

rasputin said:


> clean water and sanitation


A greater understanding of hygiene did indeed help, but that's not the only factor. Mass diseases were still spreading in the early to mid-20th century. Yet once regular vaccinations started happening, people slowly stopped getting diseases like polio. Why? Because it takes more than just an immune system and clean water to keep the body safe. It's pretty obvious when you look at the number before vaccinations and after vaccinations, how drastically they change. They go from the hundreds of thousands to just hundreds.


Cyan said:


> I think you should talk about it with your doctor, but doctors are often pro-vaccination. they have been teach that vaccination is good, so they will always try to promote it.
> see with him what are the the risks you could contact these illnesses.
> 
> measles is often a kid infection. I don't know enough to tell you what you should do. the ROR vaccine is recommended but not mandatory.
> like Chickenpox if you have it as a kid, you won't get it adult, or else you could get Zona. I don't know if there are vaccine for that. some countries have it mandatory before school. In France there's no requirement, kids just get it and get immune by themselves.


They are pro-vaccination because they actually know what they are doing. You're suggestion is of just get it and build up your immune system is flawed by history. History shows the immune system isn't a perfect system and that vaccinations have helped greatly reduce the numbers of death from preventable diseases.


----------



## Catastrophic (Aug 14, 2016)

I love threads like these. They always end with two overly conflicting opinions, hundreds of posts and no resolution whatsoever. 

P.S. Vaccines totally cause autism. Doctors are being paid by Nintendo to cause autism so they can sell as many amiibos as possible.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2016)

Catastrophic said:


> I love threads like these. They always end with two overly conflicting opinions, hundreds of posts and no resolution whatsoever.
> 
> P.S. Vaccines totally cause autism. Doctors are being paid by Nintendo to cause autism so they can sell as many amiibos as possible.



That actually makes a lot of sense, why else would Amiibo be called Amiibola?


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

Catastrophic said:


> I love threads like these. They always end with two overly conflicting opinions, hundreds of posts and no resolution whatsoever.
> 
> P.S. Vaccines totally cause autism. Doctors are being paid by Nintendo to cause autism so they can sell as many amiibos as possible.


What are you talkin' me at?


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> I'm not vaccinated...my parents are against it...Not because they believe it cause autisms...but they think it can cause other diseases such as cancer, or sclerosis or even cause the disease one is vaccinating against...
> 
> I think they were advised against vacination by an homeopath...
> 
> Does that mean said Homeopath believed in hogwash/junk science?


No.  The fact they are a homeopath means they believe in hogwash/junk science.



Edit: damn it, why won't you let me just leave it as a link, GBAtemp?  Go to 11:36 for the part on homeopathy.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 14, 2016)

Amapola62 said:


> I'm not vaccinated...my parents are against it...Not because they believe it cause autisms...but they think it can cause other diseases such as cancer, or sclerosis or even cause the disease one is vaccinating against...
> 
> I think they were advised against vacination by an homeopath...
> 
> Does that mean said Homeopath believed in hogwash/junk science?


Homeopathic "medicine" is junk science and your parents fell for junk science.
Homeopathic "medicine" and lifestyle have been linked to countless deaths, mostly deaths from preventable diseases.
If you haven't been vaccinated, I seriously suggest seek a real doctor, with a real medical degree.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 14, 2016)

One day a man thought it would be funny to sell junk medicine with funny latin-like names. That man asked a friend about the idea of making big cash, to what his friend promptly replied: "Too late buddy. Homeopathy is exactly what you described."


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> A greater understanding of hygiene did indeed help, but that's not the only factor. Mass diseases were still spreading in the early to mid-20th century. Yet once regular vaccinations started happening, people slowly stopped getting diseases like polio. Why? Because it takes more than just an immune system and clean water to keep the body safe. It's pretty obvious when you look at the number before vaccinations and after vaccinations, how drastically they change. They go from the hundreds of thousands to just hundreds.
> 
> They are pro-vaccination because they actually know what they are doing. You're suggestion is of just get it and build up your immune system is flawed by history. History shows the immune system isn't a perfect system and that vaccinations have helped greatly reduce the numbers of death from preventable diseases.


My mom got chicken pox three times, which goes to show the "immunity by infection" is not 100% true. :-/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Catastrophic said:


> I love threads like these. They always end with two overly conflicting opinions, hundreds of posts and no resolution whatsoever.
> 
> P.S. Vaccines totally cause autism. Doctors are being paid by Nintendo to cause autism so they can sell as many amiibos as possible.


Amiibo*
It's a Japanese word so no pleural. Just like emoji.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Aug 14, 2016)

'Nuff said.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 14, 2016)

Haloman800 said:


> Because, I'm the best. And like Donald Trump (and unlike Hillary Clinton), I don't get sick.


Here I was actually expecting you to bring something to the discussion. I guess we can't all get what we want :/


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 14, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Here I was actually expecting you to bring something to the discussion. I guess we can't all get what we want :/


A contrarian never has to argue facts, they only have to express a view different than the majority.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 14, 2016)

Subtle Demise said:


> A contrarian never has to argue facts, they only have to express a view different than the majority.


But when asking why they have a view about scientific things, it helps to have sources to prove that it's not a baseless claim. ;-)


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 14, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> But when asking why they have a view about scientific things, it helps to have sources to prove that it's not a baseless claim. ;-)


I know, that's why they're called contrarian, because they go against something just because everyone else is for it.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 15, 2016)

rasputin said:


> yes it was a contaminated needle, *contaminated with vaccine*, mostly a mixture of poisonous metals


A vaccine can't be contaminated with itself.  That doesn't make any sense.  That's like saying "I contaminated my bottle of pepsi with some pepsi."



Tomato Hentai said:


> I was vaccinated when I was little, but I haven't been vaccinated at all recently because.... Well I don't actually know lmao


That's the beauty of vaccination.  You don't need to be vaccinated again.  The only reason there are yearly influenza vaccinations (and why they don't always work) is because it is a constantly evolving virus.  Every year, they just guess what strain of the flu will be most likely to hit the population.  I got a flu vaccine last year, and I will forever be immune to that strain.  However, that strain has died out (or is at least not common anymore).  This year there will be a different one, and my immune system won't recognize it.  I can either get the vaccination and hope it's for the strain that becomes common, or just duck down and hope I don't catch the flu at all.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 15, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> A vaccine can't be contaminated with itself.  That doesn't make any sense.  That's like saying "I contaminated my bottle of pepsi with some pepsi."


"Shark infested waters"


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 15, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> My mom got chicken pox three times, which goes to show the "immunity by infection" is not 100% true. :-/


It is.  There are multiple strains of chickenpox, and vaccines exist for two of them.  One is just way more common, which is why most people only get it once (or never with a vaccine).  Your mom was just incredibly unlucky.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 15, 2016)

If someone's giving you crap, just link to this comic


----------



## gudenau (Aug 15, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> -snip-
> If someone's giving you crap,​just link to this comic​​


​This is amazing.


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 15, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> If someone's giving you crap, just link to this comic



FREAKING THIS!!! I have been arguing the whole herd mentally thing for years.


----------



## emigre (Aug 15, 2016)

So yeah, fuck Andrew Wakefield. In my home city there was a fucking measles outbreak because of this crazy anti vax shit.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

SomecallmeBerto said:


> FREAKING THIS!!! I have been arguing the whole herd mentally thing for years.


I think you mean herd immunity, not herd mentality, but yes


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 16, 2016)

Wow, I didn't expect the anti vaccine group to be that big. That's scary


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

FeverishJackal said:


> Wow, I didn't expect the anti vaccine group to be that big. That's scary


I was hoping for some more inelegant responses from them. :-/


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was hoping for some more inelegant responses from them. :-/


I'd hoped, but I by no means expected


----------



## Xenon Hacks (Aug 16, 2016)

Ignorance,fear, and lies from the trusted.


----------



## GhostLatte (Aug 16, 2016)

Autism is totally caused by vaccines. Why trust doctors, who recommend for people to get vaccines? It's not like they save lives or anything.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

GhostLatte said:


> Autism is totally caused by vaccines. Why trust doctors, who recommend for people to get vaccines? It's not like they save lives or anything.


Because I had autism before I got vaccinated.


----------



## vb_encryption_vb (Aug 16, 2016)

I survived chickenpox, I see absolutely no reason why there should be a vaccine for it..  and the flu shot, I sure the hell don't get that one..... I haven't had a shot in 15 years or so.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

vb_encryption_vb said:


> I survived chickenpox, I see absolutely no reason why there should be a vaccine for it..  and the flu shot, I sure the hell don't get that one..... I haven't had a shot in 15 years or so.


Please read the last five or six pages


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 16, 2016)

When did you get chickenpox? As a kid it is mild and annoying, as a teenager it sucks a lot and those that made it into their mid 20s and beyond I saw absolutely floored by it. As an adult it can have fairly long lasting and serious repercussions beyond that too. To that end I would have to support it there.

Flu we could debate for some people, and I at least won't fault those not working in the relevant trades for dodging it, at least until prediction becomes better for it.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 16, 2016)

Oh man, I got Chicken Pox as a kid and it was awful.  Entire body was densely covered in the pox.  It was so bad that It wasn't just the outside of my body, either.  I had it in my mouth and down my throat.  That was a miserable time and boy do I wish the vaccine was available back then to avoid that.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Oh man, I got Chicken Pox as a kid and it was awful.  Entire body was densely covered in the pox.  It was so bad that It wasn't just the outside of my body, either.  I had it in my mouth and down my throat.  That was a miserable time and boy do I wish the vaccine was available back then to avoid that.


But then you may have gotten The Autisms(tm) so aren't you so much happier now?


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> But then you may have gotten The Autisms(tm) so aren't you so much happier now?


I dunno, how happy is an autist compared to the average person?


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> I dunno, how happy is an autist compared to the average person?


Just as, other than when they're being bullied for being "weird"


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 16, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> I dunno, how happy is an autist compared to the average person?


That's a really weird question right there


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Just as, other than when they're being bullied for being "weird"


Hey that's not cool, I am weird


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 16, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was hoping for some more inelegant responses from them. :-/


Lol.


vb_encryption_vb said:


> I survived chickenpox, I see absolutely no reason why there should be a vaccine for it..  and the flu shot, I sure the hell don't get that one..... I haven't had a shot in 15 years or so.


Here's a reason: So you don't get chickenpox. 

Here are my comments on the flu shot and on chicken pox.

For the record, I can totally see why someone wouldn't want to get a flu shot.  Spending money on something that will be almost irrelevant in a year isn't necessarily a smart financial choice, especially if you already have a strong immune system.

PS: Saw this on facebook


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> I dunno, how happy is an autist compared to the average person?





TotalInsanity4 said:


> Just as, other than when they're being bullied for being "weird"



The stupid bulling does make you appreciate the times you aren't much more!


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 16, 2016)

grossaffe said:


> Oh man, I got Chicken Pox as a kid and it was awful.  Entire body was densely covered in the pox.  It was so bad that It wasn't just the outside of my body, either.  I had it in my mouth and down my throat.  That was a miserable time and boy do I wish the vaccine was available back then to avoid that.



But now that you had it, and provided your immune system is in good shape, you won't get it again. However, you should get a Shingles vaccine when you're older, that's the advanced form of the virus and is said to be far worse. I had chicken pox when I was young, don't remember it, my brother had scarlet fever, yeah, diseases really suck. But vaccines are good for a majority of the population, wouldn't want there to be an epidemic; there's already an epidemic of ignorance on the internet as it is.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Because they are stupid and believe in junk fake science.


it's not "fake junk science"
it is a scientific FACT that vaccines contain neurotoxins

people are just retarded and naive and believe that doctors and big pharma and the  criminal FDA are not going to screw them over for profit

so they repeat retarded memes that they have been programmed with  like "conspiracy theory" over and over to make themselves feel better with out ever even thinking or doing any actual research for themselves
if you trust big pharma and their  "studies" (bullshit biased studies that are junk science with fudged numbers to support  predetermined conclusions, that their products are safe and effective) then you are retarded already , the vaccines worked

there are no independent studies ,they are all paid for by big pharma industry, they are all biased and rigged
it's not science it's just plain fraud and doctors will cite them to the end because most of them are unable to think for themselves
these people have ever reason and every incentive to lie to you

and it does not end with vaccines either , i have recently  been permanently damaged by drugs that they have told us are "safe" , fluroquinolne antibiotics , pure poisons , made from  literal rat poison, sodium fluoride,  the same rat poison they dump in our water systems

these "drugs" (poisons) which were developed by the military as bio-weapons, in conjunction with  weaponized anthrax, as an antidote
are being given handed out like candy as 1st line antibiotics without even so much as a warning to patients , even though advocates have got several black box warnings on these poisons  doctors still hand them out like candy with not a word to their patients,even after the FDA was forced finally  added restrictions on these poisons after massive backlash and to recommend that they specifically not be used to treat minor respiratory and UTI infections the "doctors"(irresponsible criminal drug pushers trying to fulfill  quotas for a kickback from big pharma companies who should be in prison) still continue on like before without so much as even warning patients that these "drugs"(POISONS)  can and often do cause PERMANENT IRREVERSIBLE "side effects" (effects) , they are mot often naive and believe whatever the big pharma  drug reps tell them or whatever totally biased big pharma paid for studies suggests

the entire system is broken and corrupt to the core, the FDA is run and staffed by  "former" big pharma executives like this fucking bitch right here
http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/21/s...sed-danger-of-deadly-drug-for-sake-of-profit/

you can deny it all you want till something terrible happens to you like it did to me

now i have  brain and nerve damage which is likely permanent and  vision damage which is definitely  permanent
i have so far been spared  most of the more common musculosketal  effects such as multiple tendon ruptures so far thank god
but have had effects on my joints

but the neurological damage is the worst, widespread fibromyalgia like burning stabbing nerve pain in the extremities , constant intense tinnitus everyday  24/7 for the last 8 months ,like a dentist drill  going in my brain that has almost driven me to suicide,
cognitive impairment ,bouts of sleep inability that last typically 9 to 14 days , but that lasted over 1 month at 1st ,not sleeping for two weeks straight not even for a single minute, while having intense tinnitus and nerve pain all over and crazy schizophrenic thoughts and not being able to  control your brain that comes on abut every 4 to 6  weeks and lasts about 2 weeks

all this after  ingesting just 2 500mg  pills of cipro , effects started 1 hour after the second pill
intense tinnitus, intense metallic taste in mouth that lasted for over 3 months and still comes back randomly form time to time but not as intense
then felling like  someone was injecting drano into my brain, crazy schitzo like thoughts and inability to control thoughts,  seizure like convulsions,
uncontrollable shaking , *myoclonus ,intense burning sensation on skin of face and 
extremities ,profuse sweating,  
this went on for almost 2 months ans was triggered every time i tried to sleep or relax, 
also for  1st 2 month cognitive impairment was so bad i could not even watch tv or a movie or concentrate on anything my brain felt like it was being scrambled

and that is just the neurological symptoms, not to mention that it gave me  colitis and that i have lost over 40lbs since january and have muscle wasting and several vitamin deficiencies and have to go for weekly b12 shots now or that is caused me to have permanent floaters in my eyes or that i am now developing spots on my corneas

last 8 months of my life have been a living hell and i think about suicide daily thanks to this criminal medical establishment

and of course they will all stick together and deny deny deny it to the hilt and tell you more lies like "the benefits outweigh the risks" or "side effects are rare"
they refuse to  treat or acknowledge my condition or admit that it was caused by their POISONS they call "drugs"
not that there is any known treatment, but i can not even get a neurologist to see me even if their were
so you can trust these criminal charlatans if you wish  ,but you have now been forewarned 


*


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it's not "fake junk science"
> it is a scientific FACT that vaccines contain neurotoxins
> 
> people are just retarded and naive and believe that doctors and big pharma and the  criminal FDA are not going to screw them over for profit
> ...


Well, considering how this poison makes me feel a ton better. I'll stick with it.


----------



## Deleted-379826 (Aug 16, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> Hey that's not cool, I am weird


No you are right, you are VinsCool of course! Vins are the coolest :3

Guys this is actually real not a scam at all! I actually went to the doctors and without them noticing I saw what they put in there! They put rats, elephants, zebra and even some tigers + more! I am so sad for the poor people who believe and get these things injected into them! Just like my cousin who actually no joke at all, TURNED INTO A RAT! Yep it started with the rat fecies BUT THEN he grew a tail and shrinked and finally fully transformed! Fun fact: he also has the mane of a male lion! Guys seriously stop using these!


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> Well, considering how this poison makes me feel a ton better. I'll stick with it.


which poison is that? what are you taking exactly


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> which poison is that? what are you taking exactly


There are a few, not saying as you do not need to know at all.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> which poison is that? what are you taking exactly


Alcohol is my poison, and makes me feel better


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> There are a few, not saying as you do not need to know at all.


psych drugs confirmed


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> *Snip


First, you still didn't show any real proof, you just attacked me for trusting peer reviewer and well documented medical research.
You did nothing to proof that it is a conspiracy beyond proclaiming it was one
Your only proof is one case, yet there's still plenty of easily found evidence that shows the benefits of vaccines, need I show the chart again? Not to mention I can't even find that much proof behind the article you posted. Most them link back to that site as the source, which leaves more questions than answers.
You actually didn't show any facts or medical research, you just blamed the lack of medical research on a cover up.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> Alcohol is my poison, and makes me feel better


yeah i wish i could still do that
but even before this happened i was not  very tolerant of it
after this happened to me i am so sensitive to everything that i have had to go on a VERY restrictive diet , because now EVERYTHING makes me have a reaction and get triggered , so caffine, no pot ,no alcohol , no restaurant food, no refined sugars,nothing with food additives,  ,no fun
really sucks
especially for someone who used to party , binge drunk and do recreational drugs, not directly before  this happened, just  rarely weed
for a few years but now i can's anything good


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

So eh... how do you feel about anti-depressants then, if you're going to talk shit about "psych drugs"


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm sorry, but one anecdotal case that can't even be verified isn't going to change my mind about hundreds of peer reviewed articles saying vaccines are beneficial and have very low to nonexistent risks.


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

Hmmm. I have a prediction here.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> First, you still didn't show any real proof, you just attacked me for trusting peer reviewer and well documented medical research.
> You did nothing to proof that it is a conspiracy beyond proclaiming it was one
> Your only proof is one case, yet there's still plenty of easily found evidence that shows the benefits of vaccines, need I show the chart again? Not to mention I can't even find that much proof behind the article you posted. Most them link back to that site as the source, which leaves more questions than answers.
> You actually didn't show any facts or medical research, you just blamed the lack of medical research on a cover up.


you don't even need science, the industry has a proven track record of corruption and collusion 
 of course there are no studies, all the studies need  to be funded by money , money that comes through grants from  big pharma companies either directly or obfuscated through a long string of multiple proxies, subsidiary shell corporations set up with the  soul intent  obfuscating the source of said monies and any proof that a conflict of interest exists, why would these companies fund studies that were not fixed or controlled that would  implicate their products and prove that they cause harm and open themselves up to all kinds of law suits ,simply put,  they wouldn't 
can i prove it ,no, but why take the risk?
why trust people who  you know are corrupt, the benefits do not out weight the risk?
it is simply not worth it ,i'd rather get an illness that will go away than be permanently brain damaged for life 
i wish i could go back to last december and not take those pills now it is too late i likely will have to live the rest of my life in pain with nerve damage , vision damage ,  tinnitus joint pain and host of other  problems 
 they scared me into taking an unsafe product , and i gave in against my better judgement , they told me  i could get a perforation in my colon and have to have a  colostomy bag, so i took it , well ii would  rather have the bag  than this
also they lie they could have gave me augmentin instead , and i stopped treatment after 2 pills and nothing happened , i never switched to another antibiotic i  i just stopped everyhting


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> you don't even need science


Good lord I stopped reading right there


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Good lord I stopped reading right there


but in this case you don't and  there is not science anyways most of these "studies" are not scientific at all they are not what they claim to be  on their face if you dig deep enough into them you will see total disregard for the scientific method and  just outright fraud
most of them rigged one way or another to support a predetermined outcome ,  these drug companies are not paying for these  "studies" for their health you know they are not shelling out all this money to get results they do not want, ie. that their drug is either unsafe or ineffective or both

people  put their total faith into these nonscientific totally biased "studies"
they   a million different  little trick to cheat and to get results that fit the desired outcome it happens all the time
i am not going to sit here and site article after article anyone can do their own research and find this is the case
these studies are not scientific at all,just paid for shillary and confirmation  bias reports


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> you don't even need science




I can't even argue with that. If you can't even fight science with science, why should I even bother giving your argument a time of day?
I can show countless pieces of evidence that shows the benefits of vaccines have accomplished. Everything from peer reviewed medical research, studies that clearly show a drop in mass outbreaks, countless diseases that have wiped off the planet through vaccines, and so much more. Yet you are going to tell me that I don't need science?
No! You need science, you need proof, you are trying to convince me that I am wrong. The burden of proof is on you and if you are going to disrespect me by bring that kind of backwards argument that clearly contradicts your original statement.


weatMod said:


> it's not "fake junk science"
> it is a scientific FACT that vaccines contain neurotoxins


Then this isn't even a debate anymore, you've lost.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> but in this case you don't and  there is not science anyways most of these "studies" are not scientific at all they are not what they claim to be  on their face if you dig deep enough into them you will see total disregard for the scientific method and  just outright fraud
> most of them rigged one way or another to support a predetermined outcome ,  these drug companies are not paying for these  "studies" for their health you know they are not shelling out all this money to get results they do not want, ie. that their drug is either unsafe or ineffective or both
> 
> people  put their total faith into these nonscientific totally biased "studies"
> ...


Look 




You can't just completely discard evidence because you find it inconvenient. Especially when you claimed that you have evidence to support your claim that you magically can't produce now that you're being questioned


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> View attachment 59178
> I can't even argue with that. If you can't even fight science with science, why should I even bother giving your argument a time of day?
> I can show countless pieces of evidence that shows the benefits of vaccines have accomplished. Everything from peer reviewed medical research, studies that clearly show a drop in mass outbreaks, countless diseases that have wiped off the planet through vaccines, and so much more. Yet you are going to tell me that I don't need science?
> No! You need science, you need proof, you are trying to convince me that I am wrong. The burden of proof is on you and if you are going to disrespect me by bring that kind of backwards argument that clearly contradicts your original statement.
> ...


i never questioned weather or not they were effective or not, i said that they are neurotoxic, they may well be effective , but it still does not excuse the fact at they contain neurotoxic metals like  aluminium and mercury
and that is the subject fo this thread ,it is titled " why don't people vaccinate"  well the answer is not because they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccines it is because they (rightly so ) fear having injections of neurotoxic metals


----------



## mashers (Aug 16, 2016)

@weatMod
Sorry to read about your situation. I don't want you to think that what I'm about to say shows any lack of empathy for you in this situation. That said, on topic, please provide evidence that the compounds in the medications you are talking about are neurotoxic. Your personal account is not really robust evidence (that is unless you have some proof that it was those meds which caused your symptoms).


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i never questioned weather or not they were effective or not, i said that they are neurotoxic, they may well be effective , but it still does not excuse the fact at they contain neurotoxic metals like  aluminium and mercury
> and that is the subject fo this thread ,it is titled " why don't people vaccinate"  well the answer is not because they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccines it is because they (rightly so ) fear having injections of neurotoxic metals


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
To sum the article up, they don't use those anymore. Before you go all "zomgzorz wikipedia lawl" just check the citations.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i never questioned weather or not they were effective or not, i said that they are neurotoxic, they may well be effective , but it still does not excuse the fact at they contain neurotoxic metals like  aluminium and mercury
> and that is the subject fo this thread ,it is titled " why don't people vaccinate"  well the answer is not because they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccines it is because they (rightly so ) fear having injections of neurotoxic metals


Listing the ingredients well not knowing the details can make anything sound pretty scary if you don't know basic chemistry nor can provide basic evidence that they have any harmful effects.
You are also using out of date information You've still yet to prove anything.


----------



## ihaveahax (Aug 16, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Listing the ingredients well not knowing the details can make anything sound pretty scary if you don't know basic chemistry nor can provide basic evidence that they have any harmful effects. You've still yet to prove anything.


that seems to be a common theme, listing ingredients (OMG! MERCURY!) and nothing else, not even explaining what they do. they just sound scary.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i never questioned weather or not they were effective or not, i said that they are neurotoxic, they may well be effective , but it still does not excuse the fact at they contain neurotoxic metals like  aluminium and mercury
> and that is the subject fo this thread ,it is titled " why don't people vaccinate"  well the answer is not because they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccines it is because they (rightly so ) fear having injections of neurotoxic metals


Wanna back that claim up? I can link you to multiple sources explaining what all the ingredients are and what they're for


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

Please for the love of god, do not let @weatMod get jurery duty.

Also, proof of corruption please. That's not science.


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 16, 2016)

We have MORE then enough evidance that shows that vaccines have helped A LOT more then they have hurt. Scientist are always looking for ways to make it safer though.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

Subtle Demise said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
> To sum the article up, they don't use those anymore. Before you go all "zomgzorz wikipedia lawl" just check the citations.


And on top of that Thiomersal is a form of Mercury that just gets flushed out of your system. There was nothing harmful about it in the first place


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

mashers said:


> @weatMod
> Sorry to read about your situation. I don't want you to think that what I'm about to say shows any lack of empathy for you in this situation. That said, on topic, please provide evidence that the compounds in the medications you are talking about are neurotoxic. Your personal account is not really robust evidence (that is unless you have some proof that it was those meds which caused your symptoms).


i am not currently taking them , do you really think i am that stupid or crazy to keep ingesting something that caused such horrific effects
the effects were evident and hour after i took the second pill
after i researched it i found that there are literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of people with the same symptoms int eh US alone and  multiple facebook groups, just search for "floxie" or "floxed" or "ciproispoison"
even the FDA under pressure from these groups finally placed new black box warnings on this class of drugs back in may of this year, but doctors still ignore these warnings and still prescribe these poisons as 1st line antibiotics


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i am not currently taking them , do you really think i am that stupid or crazy to keep ingesting something that caused such horrific effects
> the effects were evident and hour after i took the second pill
> after i researched it i found that there are literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of people with the same symptoms int eh US alone and  multiple facebook groups, just search for "floxie" or "floxed" or "ciproispoison"
> even the FDA under pressure from these groups finally placed new black box warnings on this class of drugs back in may of this year, but doctors still ignore these warnings and still prescribe these poisons as 1st line antibiotics


Which specific drug did you take


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Which specific drug did you take


cipro 500 mg


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> cipro 500 mg


https://www.drugs.com/sfx/cipro-side-effects.html
Yeah that does in fact seem problematic

However, I hate to sound insensitive, but you doctor _should _be giving you a sheet with all this information on it when he/she prescribes it to you (and if not sue them for malpractice). If the risks of it outweigh the benefits, switch to another drug or don't take it in the first place. This isn't an issue of drugs in general, this is a case of an isolated drug being bad for your health under certain conditions


----------



## XDel (Aug 16, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.
> 
> Please try to keep this fairly civil.




Amusing way to begin a post where in you want to keep things civil. Right off the bat you are presuming that the argument you are looking for is wrong in all ways shapes and forms, and presumes that no matter the argument, what it comes down to is that the refusal to vaccinate one's child is in equal relation to the desire to see them suffer. 

I am 41 years old and in a LOT better health than the majority of people I went to school with. Some of them are already dead in fact and not due to auto accident or what have you. Granted I, like anyone else can go at any times, and what becomes of my consciousness, who knows? Though one fact remains, I feel great, I'm alive, I'm happy, and I don't vaccinate. Why? Well contrary to what is often said, we don't necessarily live longer than people prior to us. A lot of that had to do with how the people lived, what their environmental conditions were, and so forth. Also there are a lot of alternatives to vaccination. In many cases, though of course not all which 18th and 19th century medican began to prove, but in many cases the human immune system has the best self remedy system there is; not unlike a horse, a plant, or any other biological life form.


----------



## mashers (Aug 16, 2016)

@weatMod 
I didn't say you were still taking them. I also didn't say you were stupid or crazy. I've been civil to you so please do me the same courtesy.

With regard to the medication, sorry but some Facebook groups are not going to cut it as far as evidence goes. I could find a Facebook group which supported any viewpoint I wanted but that doesn't prove a thing.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

XDel said:


> Amusing way to begin a post where in you want to keep things civil. Right off the bat you are presuming that the argument you are looking for is wrong in all ways shapes and forms, and presumes that no matter the argument, what it comes down to is that the refusal to vaccinate one's child is in equal relation to the desire to see them suffer.
> 
> I am 41 years old and in a LOT better health than the majority of people I went to school with. Some of them are already dead in fact and not due to auto accident or what have you. Granted I, like anyone else can go at any times, and what becomes of my consciousness, who knows? Though one fact remains, I feel great, I'm alive, I'm happy, and I don't vaccinate. Why? Well contrary to what is often said, we don't necessarily live longer than people prior to us. A lot of that had to do with how the people lived, what their environmental conditions were, and so forth. Also there are a lot of alternatives to vaccination. In many cases, though of course not all which 18th and 19th century medican began to prove, but in many cases the human immune system has the best self remedy system there is; not unlike a horse, a plant, or any other biological life form.


Again, as I said with @Haloman800, "Why am I not surprised that you're here and made that comment"

Edit: What the hell? You're 41 and some people you went to school with have already died? Where do you live, and is that the norm????


----------



## Deleted-379826 (Aug 16, 2016)

Come on he's gotta be trolling at this point! He's not even trying to listen or see our side! Wait wait, guys the government lied, I actually saw Hitler outside my house! I thought he was dead like all you guys! How can that be . Our government is fake I'll never believe them again! Next thing you know the american dollar bill is the gateway to the ill- WHOOPS I ACCIDENTALLY SUMMONED THE ILLUMINATI!1!!1!!! Guys this is actually real, the government is fake! That means vaccines are pure poison! At least Donald Trump is truthful,  AT LEAST America has something good coming for them!


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> https://www.drugs.com/sfx/cipro-side-effects.html
> Yeah that does in fact seem problematic
> 
> However, I hate to sound insensitive, but you doctor _should _be giving you a sheet with all this information on it when he/she prescribes it to you (and if not sue them for malpractice). If the risks of it outweigh the benefits, switch to another drug or don't take it in the first place. This isn't an issue of drugs in general, this is a case of an isolated drug being bad for your health under certain conditions


it was an ER doc and it doesn't matter only 1 or 2 pills can cause PERMANENT DAMAGE i only took 2 pills and stopped taking it but the damage is already done it never goes away,  these drugs cause PERMANENT  BRAIN AND NERVE DAMAGE
https://www.drugwatch.com/2016/05/16/fda-black-box-warning-for-levaquin-cipro-antibiotic-risk/
www.*ciproispoison*.com/

yeah good luck trying to sue anyone, the  judicial system is even more corrupt than the medical establisment


----------



## Deleted-379826 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was an ER doc and it doesn't matter only 1 or 2 pills can cause PERMANENT DAMAGE i only took 2 pills and stopped taking it but the damage is already done it never goes away,  these drugs cause PERMANENT  BRAIN AND NERVE DAMAGE
> https://www.drugwatch.com/2016/05/16/fda-black-box-warning-for-levaquin-cipro-antibiotic-risk/
> www.*ciproispoison*.com/
> 
> yeah good luck trying to sue anyone, the  judicial system is even more corrupt than the medical establisment


if 1 or 2 pills can cause permanent damage, then why not maybe THINK IT THROUGH? Or consult your doctor on your feelings other wise? 

Please don't get me and the other people started on these conspiracies!


----------



## gudenau (Aug 16, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> Come on he's gotta be trolling at this point! He's not even trying to listen or see our side! Wait wait, guys the government lied, I actually saw Hitler outside my house! I thought he was dead like all you guys! How can that be . Our government is fake I'll never believe them again! Next thing you know the american dollar bill is the gateway to the ill- WHOOPS I ACCIDENTALLY SUMMONED THE ILLUMINATI!1!!1!!! Guys this is actually real, the government is fake! That means vaccines are pure poison! At least Donald Trump is truthful,  AT LEAST America has something good coming for them!



If Trump wins so help me.



weatMod said:


> it was an ER doc and it doesn't matter only 1 or 2 pills can cause PERMANENT DAMAGE i only took 2 pills and stopped taking it but the damage is already done it never goes away,  these drugs cause PERMANENT  BRAIN AND NERVE DAMAGE
> https://www.drugwatch.com/2016/05/16/fda-black-box-warning-for-levaquin-cipro-antibiotic-risk/
> www.*ciproispoison*.com/
> 
> yeah good luck trying to sue anyone, the  judicial system is even more corrupt than the medical establisment



I will agree with that corruption thing, the medical system is not that corrupt so it is not hard to beat it in that metric.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> yeah good luck trying to sue anyone, the  judicial system is even more corrupt than the medical establisment


All I heard there was "I'm too lazy to even try".


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


----------



## Deleted-379826 (Aug 16, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> If Trump wins so help me.
> 
> 
> 
> I will agree with that corruption thing, the medical system is not that corrupt so it is not hard to beat it in that metric.


but but make "Make America Great Again"?? He can lock the portal between our world and the illuminati's!


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> if 1 or 2 pills can cause permanent damage, then why not maybe THINK IT THROUGH? Or consult your doctor on your feelings other wise?
> 
> Please don't get me and the other people started on these conspiracies!


because they never told me any of this, it is a conspiracy, it's just not a theory it is a fact, these  drugs cause permanent damage and they are actively covering it up and also even ignoring  warnings  from the FDA , i know several nurses and i asked them after the new black box warnings  and restrictions were issued in may i asked each of them if they have made any changes at their offices and they all told me without exception that the doctors they work for still are prescribing  these drugs as 1st line antibiotics ,some said that they were starting patients at a lower dose,  they are specifically even ignoring   FDA warnings, and black box warnings,  black box warnings are the strictest warnings there are before a drug gets pulled from the market, the FDA and these doctors do not give a shit about you  , they are not going to protect you from dangerous drugs or vaccines because they all work for big pharma , it is a revolving door and FDA is staffed by big pharma execs


----------



## Deleted-379826 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> because they never told me any of this, it is a conspiracy, it's just not a theory it is a fact, these  drugs cause permanent damage and they are actively covering it up and also even ignoring  warnings  from the FDA , i know several nurses and i asked them after the new black box warnings  and restrictions were issued in may i asked each of them if they have made any changes at their offices and they all told me without exception that the doctors they work for still are prescribing  these drugs as 1st line antibiotics ,some said that they were starting patients at a lower dose,  they are specifically even ignoring   FDA warnings, and black box warnings,  black box warnings are the strictest warnings there are before a drug gets pulled from the market, the FDA and these doctors do not give a shit about you  , they are not going to protect you from dangerous drugs or vaccines because they all work for big pharma , it is a revolving door and FDA is staffed by big pharma execs


If you say so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## XDel (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Again, as I said with @Haloman800, "Why am I not surprised that you're here and made that comment"
> 
> Edit: What the hell? You're 41 and some people you went to school with have already died? Where do you live, and is that the norm????




You speak as one enlightened. 

I live in Ohio, people like their booze and smokes here. Is it any wonder that some of them look twice their age, or died of various organ failures or what have you? And those consumed with stress, fatigue, anger, etc. etc. All that shit wears on ya.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

Tomato Hentai said:


> All I heard there was "I'm too lazy to even try".
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


neurological damage is extremely difficult to prove even where there is not a  active conspiracy against you
i can't even get the receptionists   at the neurologist to  book me an appointment
i called several neurologists and they all ask why you want to be seen and when  you tell them they will refuse to  even book you
it is a systematic denial by the medical establishment to acknowledge victims

i have already researched  it ,i am not lazy , there are people who have been trying to sue for this for years, over 10 years and they have much more established cases and  have musculoskeletal side effects which are easily proven to exist such as multiple tendon ruptures ,  ruptured Achilles tendons multiple times  or are cripple and in wheelchairs and they all say they have wasted tons of time and money and have not seen so much as a dime
yes there are several law suits but to say it is an uphill battle is an understatement , it is next to impossible to fight multi trillion $$ companies with unlimited funds at their disposal when you are just some poor peon


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 16, 2016)

TheVinAnator said:


> If you say so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Holy shit...how far does this rabbit hole go? 0.o


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2016)

SomecallmeBerto said:


> Holy shit...how far does this rabbit hole go? 0.o


ITS ENDLESS


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 16, 2016)

SomecallmeBerto said:


> Holy shit...how far does this rabbit hole go? 0.o


All the way to the top

You may think I mean the President, but no. The President is just a puppet for the people who are really in charge


----------



## mashers (Aug 16, 2016)

@weatMod 
Are you seriously suggesting that medical professionals are knowingly providing drugs with the sole intention of causing neurological damage to their patients? And that the entire medical profession is in on it?


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Again, as I said with @Haloman800, "Why am I not surprised that you're here and made that comment"
> 
> Edit: What the hell? You're 41 and some people you went to school with have already died? Where do you live, and is that the norm????



"Edit: What the hell? You're 41 and some people you went to school with have already died? Where do you live, and is that the norm????"

i am younger than that and half the people i went to HS with are dead, so yeah it is pretty normal

most of them from opiate overdoses , another thing we can thank our wonderful medical system for

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mashers said:


> @weatMod
> Are you seriously suggesting that medical professionals are knowingly providing drugs with the sole intention of causing neurological damage to their patients? And that the entire medical profession is in on it?


no not with the soul intention of causing neurological damage  most of them are just ignorant and lied to big pharma drug reps
or some of them know and just do not care because they are being driven by financial incentives like prescription quotas and kickbacks
most of them just lie to themselves and tell themselves "those side effects are rare" or "the benefits outweigh the risks" my PCP used that exact line on me after i told him what happened and how i was poisoned by cipro by the ER doc , they just DGAF
now the FDA itself  in may just said specifically "the benefits do not outweigh the risks" i would like to pull out my phone and show him that article but i would not have time and  it would cut into my 20 second visit


----------



## darkangel5000 (Aug 16, 2016)

mashers said:


> @weatMod
> Are you seriously suggesting that medical professionals are knowingly providing drugs with the sole intention of causing neurological damage to their patients? And that the entire medical profession is in on it?


Of course. And of course just some select few non-professionals are able to look behind the scheme.


This is directed at all the anti-vaxxer "its a conspiracy!!11"-people:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

darkangel5000 said:


> Of course. And of course just some select few non-professionals are able to look behind the scheme.
> 
> 
> This is directed at all the anti-vaxxer "its a conspiracy!!11"-people:
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905


i really do hope you get severly   floxed some day , you deserve itjust for your sheer smugness alone
 but it will probably not happen because  europoors do not usually  hand out those poisons like candy,not  like they do here
just like they do not  have GMO's or fluoridate their water,  germany probably does fluoridate though


----------



## darkangel5000 (Aug 16, 2016)

>poison
>europoors
>blahblah
Please troll even harder.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i really do hope you get severly   floxed some day , you deserve itjust for your sheer smugness alone
> but it will probably not happen because  europoors do not usually  hand out those poisons like candy,not  like they do here
> just like they do not  have GMO's or fluoridate their water,  germany probably does fluoridate though



You do know that fluoridated water is a naturally occurring phenomenon in many places, yes? Also that "GMO" is a catch-all term for selective breeding methods, and any kind of selective breeding qualifies as "GMO"?


----------



## Subtle Demise (Aug 16, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> All the way to the top
> 
> You may think I mean the President, but no. The President is just a puppet for the people who are really in charge


The La-Le-Lu-Li-Lo!


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 16, 2016)

Subtle Demise said:


> The La-Le-Lu-Li-Lo!



The Patriots!!! "plays metal gear theme"


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> You do know that fluoridated water is a naturally occurring phenomenon in many places, yes? Also that "GMO" is a catch-all term for selective breeding methods, and any kind of selective breeding qualifies as "GMO"?


no you are totally wrong on both counts ,please educate yourself
natural fluoride is not the same as sodium fluoride that is dumped in the water system , it is a toxic waste byproduct form the aluminum manufacturing industry , sodium fluoride is a neurotoxic poison , and it is the only  active ingredient in d-con rat poison ,it is literally rat poison and it is   neurotoxic and  cumulative poison

GMO refers to genetically modified organisms that have been modified through recombinant DNA technology
it is not the same as thing as cross breeding   mendel style
it is not cross pollination  it is taking a specific gene from any organism, be it plant or animal , then  making  billions of copies of said gene with PCR (polymerase chain reaction) machine , then using those copies to coat the outside of a microscopic gold sphere which is then  shot into  the nucleus
of a reproductive cell of the target organism using a gene gun then a small electrical charge is applied to spark the cell into accepting the new genes into the host cells  nucleus
it is most definitely not anything like selective breeding , you cant selectively breed a fish with a tomato can you?
because that is what GMO is, it is not cross polination

but more importantly is WHY these organism are being altered in the 1st place
it is not to give the new hybrid organism  the better natural characteristics of both parent organisms for that soul purpose of producing  a better fruit
no it is being done to make  these organisms resistant to known carcinogenic poisons like monsantos glyphosate herbicide
so that farmers can just blanket   apply massive amounts  of this herbicide poison to their fields, the end result is that  it ends up in the food you eat
and causes digestive problems and cancers


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> no you are totally wrong on both counts ,please educate yourself
> natural fluoride is not the same as sodium fluoride that is dumped in the water system , it is a toxic waste byproduct form the aluminum manufacturing industry , sodium fluoride is a neurotoxic poison , and it is the only  active ingredient in d-con rat poison ,it is literally rat poison and it is   neurotoxic and  cumulative poison
> 
> GMO refers to genetically modified organisms that have been modified through recombinant DNA technology
> ...


I educate myself through scientifically peer-reviewed journals and by professionals in the field. Where exactly should I educate myself, if they are all so horribly incorrect about everything?

Also:
-a chemical doesn't care where it came from. An identical chemical that can come from multiple sources is still the exact same chemical. Chemicals don't have a memory.
-organic farmers use far more and potentially more dangerous pesticides as they cannot use most synthetic pesticides (though some do use some that aren't strictly listed as no-go for organic farmers)
-mutation by radiation is not considered a GMO and can be labeled as organic. While completely safe, it sounds scary, so ya know. it's got to be unhealthy for you and evil, right?
-[citation needed] for like, everything you just said.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> I educate myself through scientifically peer-reviewed journals and by professionals in the field. Where exactly should I educate myself, if they are all so horribly incorrect about everything?


Facebook pages, of course!


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> I educate myself through scientifically peer-reviewed journals and by professionals in the field. Where exactly should I educate myself, if they are all so horribly incorrect about everything?


"scientifically peer-reviewed journals and by professionals in the field" =bought and paid for industry shills


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> "scientifically peer-reviewed journals and by professionals in the field" =bought and paid for industry shills



That doesn't even remotely answer the question. Apparently we need to go to some dark website were the "truth" beyond the truth is. No tin foil hat wearing BS here.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> I educate myself through scientifically peer-reviewed journals and by professionals in the field. Where exactly should I educate myself, if they are all so horribly incorrect about everything?
> 
> Also:
> -a chemical doesn't care where it came from. An indentical chemical that can come from multiple sources is still the exact same chemical. Chemicals don't have a memory.
> ...


ok so you are seriously going to argue that you can selectively breed  a fish with a tomato because "muh  scientifically peer reviewed journals by professionals in the field"
because you just stated that recombiant  GMO technology is no different that mendel style selective breeding

i guess all the people who work and shop at whole foods and farmers markets that are all trying to avoid GMO's  and not shoping at the big grocey chains (not that whole foods is not a big  grocery chain)are all just some kooky conspiracy theorists too then huh


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> ok so you are seriously going to argue that you can selectively breed  a fish with a tomato because "muh  scientifically peer reviewed journals by professionals in the field"
> because you just stated that recombiant  GMO technology is no different that mendel style selective breeding



 

I'd like to say more than this, but I really have no idea what you're saying.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> ok so you are seriously going to argue that you can selectively breed  a fish with a tomato because "muh  scientifically peer reviewed journals by professionals in the field"
> because you just stated that recombiant  GMO technology is no different that mendel style selective breeding


A gene is a gene. Did you know that you share 50% of your genes with bananas? The exact. same. genes. If you were to switch them, there'd be no difference, because they're the same.

That's because a part does not carry the essence of the whole. A gene is just a gene, that serves a function and a job. a "fish" gene, separated from a fish, is not a "fish" gene. It's just a gene that has a function (well, at least one at any rate).

So yes, in many ways, there are very few differences beyond precision and intent.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> A gene is a gene. Did you know that you share 50% of your genes with bananas? The exact. same. genes. If you were to switch them, there'd be no difference, because they're the same.
> 
> That's because a part does not carry the essence of the whole. A gene is just a gene, that serves a function and a job. a "fish" gene, separated from a fish, is not a "fish" gene. It's just a gene that has a function (well, at least one at any rate).
> 
> So yes, in many ways, there are very few differences beyond precision and intent.


but it still does not change the fact that you can not accomplish the  task of getting fish genes into tomatoes without  recombinant GMO technology and that it is still impossibe to do with  "selective breeding"
and like i said that is  not really the issue here, besides starlink corn , the reason most people are up in arms about GMO's is not because they are altered but WHY they are altered  they simply do not want to consume products laden with toxic herbicides like glyphoate which is basically agent orange re marketed for civilian use

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



astronautlevel said:


> View attachment 59187
> 
> I'd like to say more than this, but I really have no idea what you're saying.


he is saying  that this 
http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.htm

is the same as this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recombinant_DNA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_organism

and i am saying it's not


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> but it still does not change the fact that you can not accomplish the  task of getting fish genes into tomatoes without  recombinant GMO technology and that it is still impossibe to do with  "selective breeding"
> and like i said that is  not really the issue here, besides starlink corn , the reason most people are up in arms about GMO's is not because they are altered but WHY they are altered  they simply do not want to consume products laden with toxic herbicides like glyphoate which is basically agent orange re marketed for civilian use
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


Is THAT what you got out of what I said?

Okay, what I'm saying is don't fixate on the process. While important to understand and distinguish between, they are merely the tools used for gene transfer. They have zero relevance to the final product other than understanding the likely-hood of certain genes over others. Again, they are just the tool used to transfer genes. The type of hammer used in construction doesn't matter so much as the the components that go into the final construction and their configuration. The manner in which genes are shuffled around isn't nearly as important as the genes that are in the offspring.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> ok so you are seriously going to argue that you can selectively breed  a fish with a tomato because "muh  scientifically peer reviewed journals by professionals in the field"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


weatMod said:


> because you just stated that recombiant  GMO technology is no different that mendel style selective breeding


They said it's also changing the genome of a plant. It being done "naturally" or "artificially" has no automatic impact on health. If you intend to demonstrate lab GMOs cause health issues (and that glyphosphate does too) you need to show something called "proof". Something being artificial is no proof of it being "bad". You have actual proof, right?


weatMod said:


> i guess all the people who work and shop at whole foods and farmers markets that are all trying to avoid GMO's  and not shoping at the big grocey chains (not that whole foods is not a big  grocery chain)are all just some kooky conspiracy theorists too then huh


So since some billions of people believe in one or more gods, a/several god/s actually exist/s?


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> Is THAT what you got out of what I said?
> 
> Okay, what I'm saying is don't fixate on the process. While important to understand and distinguish between, they are merely the tools used for gene transfer. They have zero relevance to the final product other than understanding the likely-hood of certain genes over others. Again, they are just the tool used to transfer genes. The type of hammer used in construction doesn't matter so much as the the components that go into the final construction and their configuration. The manner in which genes are shuffled around isn't nearly as important as the genes that are in the offspring.


yeah  like i said it is not really the process of GMO engineering tht i am against i am sure it has  some  good uses  but it  how it is being used that is bad , it is now being used to make these plants resistant to poisons so that the big agra and big pharma bis (soon to be merger, bayer is  trying to  merge with monsanto,bayer makes cipro, monsanto makes glyphosate)can sell more of their toxins to farmers ,so they can blanket soak their fields  with them
 i said that this is not allowed in EU as it is here int he US
they don't allow these companies to do this  blanked spray carcinogens onto basically the  entire food supply

in some instances it is bad in itself like starlink corn which is genetically modified to produce it's own insecticide


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> yeah  like i said it is not really the process of GMO engineering tht i am against i am sure it has  some  good uses  but it  how it is being used that is bad , it is now being used to make these plants resistant to poisons so that the big agra and big pharma bis (soon to be merger, bayer is  trying to  merge with monsanto,bayer makes cipro, monsanto makes glyphosate)can sell more of their toxins to farmers ,so they can blanket soak their fields  with them
> i said that this is not allowed in EU as it is here int he US
> they don't allow these companies to do this  blanked spray carcinogens onto basically the  entire food supply
> 
> in some instances it is bad in itself like starlink corn which is genetically modified to produce it's own insecticide


You're lucky to live in a first world country that can afford to complain about this. In a lot of areas of the world, they have no choice but to use insecticides with GMO plants because otherwise the harvest would be destroyed and people would starve.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2016)

The only reason I dislike GMO is because some company decided it'd be a good idea to make GMO apples that tasted like both apples and grapes. I hate both.
They tasted disgusting, why would anyone think that'd be a good idea?


----------



## guisadop (Aug 16, 2016)

Vaccines are for your body what System Updates are for your console. There are plenty of hackers trying to get a kernel access of you, so you got to update your system.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> yeah  like i said it is not really the process of GMO engineering tht i am against i am sure it has  some  good uses  but it  how it is being used that is bad , it is now being used to make these plants resistant to poisons so that the big agra and big pharma bis (soon to be merger, bayer is  trying to  merge with monsanto,bayer makes cipro, monsanto makes glyphosate)can sell more of their toxins to farmers ,so they can blanket soak their fields  with them
> i said that this is not allowed in EU as it is here int he US
> they don't allow these companies to do this  blanked spray carcinogens onto basically the  entire food supply
> 
> in some instances it is bad in itself like starlink corn which is genetically modified to produce it's own insecticide


Insecticides are needed when growing crops on a large scale. Otherwise, it's very risky for farmers and they could easily lose everything they own in a crop season, and people could go hungry from a certain expectation of amount of foods.

Conventional farmers tend to use less pesticide than "organic" farmers who use far more. The reason for this is that synthetic pesticides are far more efficient than what "organic" farmers have to use. That and they try to engineer them to not interact with human biology. glyphosate is fine for ingestion as long as you're drinking a gallon of the stuff straight up. It passes through your system pretty quickly, though it isn't impossible for it to have an affect. Though that can be said about most things, as most things are a bit carcinogenic. Heck, WHO (World Health Organization) assumed everything is a carcinogenic until proven otherwise. I think they finally ruled out wifi as not being carcinogenic (lulz), but they tend to take the cautious approach. Though I can agree that everyone involved would love a new synthetic pesticide with higher efficiency with absolutely zero affect on the human body.

As far as Europe goes, well, some of their laws and rules are a bit reactionary. There are a lot of countries, for example, that outlaw homosexuality. We don't want to take the passing of government laws as proof of anything. Seriously, would you trust a US senator to be an expert in science?


----------



## DiscostewSM (Aug 16, 2016)

I can't really say about vaccinations, but I cringe every time there's a commercial about a new drug on TV that's to help with something, but comes with a whole slew of possible side effects that would make one not want to use the drug in the first place.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2016)

DiscostewSM said:


> I can't really say about vaccinations, but I cringe every time there's a commercial about a new drug on TV that's to help with something, but comes with a whole slew of possible side effects that would make one not want to use the drug in the first place.


"hey guys here's this drug that'll stop your back pains, also the side effects are SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, CANCER, HEART ATTACKS, SEIZURES and a bunch of other shit"


----------



## DiscostewSM (Aug 16, 2016)

guisadop said:


> Vaccines are for your body what System Updates are for your console. There are plenty of hackers trying to get a kernel access of you, so you got to update your system.


My body is like a 3DS. It houses a stable.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> Insecticides are needed when growing crops on a large scale. Otherwise, it's very risky for farmers and they could easily lose everything they own in a crop season, and people could go hungry from a certain expectation of amount of foods.
> 
> Conventional farmers tend to use less pesticide than "organic" farmers who use far more. The reason for this is that synthetic pesticides are far more efficient than what "organic" farmers have to use. That and they try to engineer them to not interact with human biology. glyphosate is fine for ingestion as long as you're drinking a gallon of the stuff straight up. It passes through your system pretty quickly, though it isn't impossible for it to have an affect. Though that can be said about most things, as most things are a bit carcinogenic. Heck, WHO (World Health Organization) assumed everything is a carcinogenic until proven otherwise. I think they finally ruled out wifi as not being carcinogenic (lulz), but they tend to take the cautious approach. Though I can agree that everyone involved would love a new synthetic pesticide with higher efficiency with absolutely zero affect on the human body.
> 
> As far as Europe goes, well, some of their laws and rules are a bit reactionary. There are a lot of countries, for example, that outlaw homosexuality. We don't want to take the passing of government laws as proof of anything. Seriously, would you trust a US senator to be an expert in science?


glyphosate is not a pesticide it is an herbicide
also it's not doing them much good
http://www.seattleorganicrestaurant...farmers-committing-suicide-monsanto-gm-crops/

no USDA certified organic means that there can be NO pesticides used at all and certainly not more

most of the senate is owned by big agra/pharma and all of the regulatory agencies are owned by big pharma/agra  USDA/FDA
the problem is not that that they are reactionary the problem is that they are shills for these big industry giants who are poisoning us, and that they do not regulate them at all , they only regulate small farmers and their competition  right out business

and if glyphoste is so innocuous then why are they so adamant against even labeling it?
if it is so great then why do they have to be so sneaky  , why cant they let consumers make their own decisions
because they are full of shit thats why, they told us agent orange was safe for decades too , and glyphosate is chemically similar molecule
do you really want to take that chance?
https://www.google.com/search?q=age...sydzEX54Ivtp-Dfq&q=agent orange birth defects


----------



## Mikemk (Aug 16, 2016)

Back to the "vaccinations causing autism" topic from the first page, that should be incentive for extra vaccinations.  If everyone were autistic, the world would be a much better place.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 16, 2016)

DiscostewSM said:


> I can't really say about vaccinations, but I cringe every time there's a commercial about a new drug on TV that's to help with something, but comes with a whole slew of possible side effects that would make one not want to use the drug in the first place.


Nothing you do is free of risks. If you have an high fever and you take a med which causes colitis in 1/1000 cases (just imagining here) I think it's logical to take that risk 
Exactly like using a car to move, knowing you risk to have a car accident (and they are more common you might think http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/mortality-risk )


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> glyphosate is not a pesticide it is an herbicide
> also it's not doing them much good
> http://www.seattleorganicrestaurant...farmers-committing-suicide-monsanto-gm-crops/
> 
> ...


Certified organic means they don't use most synthetic pesticides. They still use "organic" pesticides and arguably a few synthetic ones. You should google it, it's pretty interesting why they select which pesticides. 

And I apologize for using pesticide and herbicide interchangeably. I did so for ease of conversation and not to confuse the points being made in the conversation.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/2679650

Though it does look like some plants are developing resistance to it, so hopefully we'll have something safer tested and ready to use before its not very useful to us.

As far as labeling goes, you thought "certified organic" meant no pesticides, so I'm not sure what good labeling does if you're unclear about what that label actually means. It doesn't give any information, it only scares you.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it's not "fake junk science"
> it is a scientific FACT that vaccines contain neurotoxins


In science, there are no facts.


TotalInsanity4 said:


> Good lord I stopped reading right there


LOL So did I!


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

Mikemk said:


> Back to the "vaccinations causing autism" topic from the first page, that should be incentive for extra vaccinations.  If everyone were autistic, the world would be a much better place.


we are all autistic here  we were all vaccinated as kids thats  why we can never stay on topic and every GBAtemp thread gets derailed and goes off topic, the evidence is right in front of your faces


----------



## Tigran (Aug 16, 2016)

Can we just give these " all natural" people some uranium? It's perfectly natural. Sure it would do them a World of good.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> we are all autistic here  we were all vaccinated as kids thats  why we can never stay on topic and every GBAtemp thread gets derailed and goes off topic, the evidence is right in front of your faces


Heh, using "autistic" as a derogatory term... facepalm.
As a fellow autistic, it makes me lose any respect of who does it.

(I also facepalm when antivaxxers imply they'd rather see their children have severe health issues or die than being autistic).


----------



## AyanamiRei0 (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> we are all autistic here  we were all vaccinated as kids thats  why we can never stay on topic and every GBAtemp thread gets derailed and goes off topic, the evidence is right in front of your faces



I was diagnosed with Autism before my first ever vaccine like some else has already said the are no facts in science only research


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

Tigran said:


> Can we just give these " all natural" people some uranium? It's perfectly natural. Sure it would do them a World of good.








dr's actually recommended this too once


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

XDel said:


> Well contrary to what is often said, we don't necessarily live longer than people prior to us. A lot of that had to do with how the people lived, what their environmental conditions were, and so forth. Also there are a lot of alternatives to vaccination. In many cases, though of course not all which 18th and 19th century medican began to prove, but in many cases the human immune system has the best self remedy system there is; not unlike a horse, a plant, or any other biological life form.


Let me just cut out the irrelevant parts.
This statement is just plain false.
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy/
We are in fact living a lot longer compared to generations before us. We are also living a lot healthier without massive outbreaks killing off huge chunks of the population
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
Why? Because not only did we start better understanding basic hygiene, but because of the wide spread usage of vaccines. We started counteracting deceases before they had time to spread and people start living longer lives.
The numbers don't lie and just looking at history, it's pretty oblivious that the human immune system isn't a perfect system. This idea of the "perfect" human immune system is naïve and easily taken apart by simply looking at history. And idea of "Look at me! I haven't vaccinated and I'm healthy!" isn't a solid argument.


----------



## Mikemk (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> we are all autistic here  we were all vaccinated as kids thats  why we can never stay on topic and every GBAtemp thread gets derailed and goes off topic, the evidence is right in front of your faces


I think you're confusing autism with some digital form of ADHD


----------



## weatMod (Aug 16, 2016)

AyanamiRei1 said:


> I was diagnosed with Autism before my first ever vaccine like some else has already said the are no facts in science only research


it was a joke, but i will forgive you cause you cant help your autism

and it proves nothing jut because some people get cancer naturally without being exposed to carcinogenics does not men that carcenogenics do not cause cancer


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2016)

AyanamiRei1 said:


> I was diagnosed with Autism before my first ever vaccine like some else has already said the are no facts in science only research


The disorder I'm diagnosed with is very similar to Autism and I was also diagnosed with it before I had any vaccinations. My sister also has the same disorder and she, too, was diagnosed with it before she had any vaccinations.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> dr's actually recommended this too once


Because an advertisement from "The Colorado Radium Products Company" very clearly represents the opinions of doctors.


----------



## Mikemk (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was a joke, but i will forgive you cause you cant help your autism
> 
> and it proves nothing jut because some people get cancer naturally without being exposed to carcinogenics does not men that carcenogenics do not cause cancer


All people exposed to a non neglible quantity of carcinogens will get Cancer.  Very few exposed to vaccinations get autism.  Why?  Because they already have it when they get the vaccine.

Cancer is a disease caused by malformed growths which can start at any time.  Autism is a condition caused by the brain being arranged differently than in normal people, which can only happen while the brain is developing*, before any vaccinations occur.

* There are studies which have managed to make people autistic via electrical pulses, but the effects wear off after a few hours since the brain is already formed.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

Even with an extremely slim chance that vaccines causes autism (which they don't.) I find it more disturbing that people would rather have a dead child than consider raising a child with autism.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Let me just cut out the irrelevant parts.
> This statement is just plain false.
> https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy/
> We are in fact living a lot longer compared to generations before us. We are also living a lot healthier without massive outbreaks killing off huge chunks of the population
> ...



While I completely agree with you, life expectancy totals usually take into account deaths of all ages. So high infant mortality, for instance, skews "life expectancy" to a much lower number. It's not inaccurate, it's just not how we perceive what that word means. We still live longer, healthier lives than we used to, without a doubt, but it can be misleading to quote life expectancy when one means "you're more likely to not die when you're 50" kind of thing. You may already know this, and I know it's a bit of not quite relevant, it's still something to be aware of.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> While I completely agree with you, life expectancy totals usually take into account deaths of all ages. So high infant mortality, for instance, skews "life expectancy" to a much lower number. It's not inaccurate, it's just not how we perceive what that word means. We still live longer, healthier lives than we used to, without a doubt, but it can be misleading to quote life expectancy when one means "you're more likely to not die when you're 50" kind of thing. You may already know this, and I know it's a bit of not quite relevant, it's still something to be aware of.


My point being was to point out that the statement of saying we don't live longer than before is false. Data shows that we are indeed living longer than previous generations. Now of course a better understanding of healthy living is a factor, but it can't be denied that vaccines helped greatly reduce deaths. I mean just look at the numbers of people who died from now easily treatable diseases in just the early 20th century alone.
I am not intending to to argue with you since I am pretty sure we are just agreeing with each other. Just clarifying my post.


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 16, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> My point being was to point out that the statement of saying we don't live longer than before is false. Data shows that we are indeed living longer than previous generations. Now of course a better understanding of healthy living is a factor, but it can't be denied that vaccines helped greatly reduce deaths. I mean just look at the numbers of people who died from now easily treatable diseases in just the early 20th century alone.
> I am not intending to to argue with you since I am pretty sure we are just agreeing with each other. Just clarifying my post.


Indeed. And we definitely agree. =] not arguing at all, I just wanted to add a clarification because why let the silly people hog all the learning lol.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2016)

osaka35 said:


> Indeed. And we definitely agree. =] not arguing at all, I just wanted to add a clarification because why let the silly people hog all the learning lol.


Cool  Glad we can agree!


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 16, 2016)

weatMod said:


> we are all autistic here  we were all vaccinated as kids thats  why we can never stay on topic and every GBAtemp thread gets derailed and goes off topic, the evidence is right in front of your faces


ad hominem


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 17, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Because an advertisement from "The Colorado Radium Products Company" very clearly represents the opinions of doctors.


Besides that, science learns from mistakes, if you can prove the scientific consensus is wrong with hard evidence, it will change. Unlike pseudoscience which always stays the same.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

FeverishJackal said:


> ad hominem


it was a joke


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was a joke


Oh, I thought your entire anti vaccine speech was serious


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> dr's actually recommended this too once


Radium never saved millions of lives.


Crystal the Glaceon said:


> My point being was to point out that the statement of saying we don't live longer than before is false. Data shows that we are indeed living longer than previous generations.


That's actually the primary reason cancer rates have increased.  Previous generations usually died too early for cancer cells to significantly develop.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

FeverishJackal said:


> Oh, I thought your entire anti vaccine speech was serious


it was just not that one comment


Mikemk said:


> All people exposed to a non neglible quantity of carcinogens will get Cancer.  Very few exposed to vaccinations get autism.  Why?  Because they already have it when they get the vaccine.
> 
> Cancer is a disease caused by malformed growths which can start at any time.  Autism is a condition caused by the brain being arranged differently than in normal people, which can only happen while the brain is developing*, before any vaccinations occur.
> 
> * There are studies which have managed to make people autistic via electrical pulses, but the effects wear off after a few hours since the brain is already formed.




vaccines are most likely causing the huge spike in autism and or some other environmental toxins

inb4 correlation does not  equal causation 









come on just use some common sense here,  if it was not environmental then why the huge spike recently?


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was just not that one comment


Are you sure?


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 17, 2016)

The only way I can fathom someone getting autism because of vaccines would be if the mother was vaccinated while she was pregnant, which might cause her child to develop differently and have autism.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was just not that one comment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have any idea how many things could correlate with that graph?  You could probably link TV ownership to that as well.  Or how frequently people use the word "cool" to mean fashionable.  You just chose vaccines because you want something to blame, and don't actually need any real proof.



Tomato Hentai said:


> The only way I can fathom someone getting autism because of vaccines would be if the mother was vaccinated while she was pregnant, which might cause her child to develop differently and have autism.


Exactly.  People seem to think it's a disease you catch, like the mumps.  Which I don't have, since I was vaccinated.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was just not that one comment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually vaccines aren't causing any spikes in autism, a better understanding of autism is "causing a spike in autism". In recent years we've grown a better understanding of autism and we've better learned how to diagnosis it. It's not environmental nor vaccines, it's medical science improving.
There's also proof that the numbers aren't increasing, they are the same as previous generations. The numbers of people being properly diagnosis is what's increasing. Basically, awareness is increasing.
Regardless, I am referring to my previous statement


Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Even with an extremely slim chance that vaccines causes autism (which they don't.) I find it more disturbing that people would rather have a dead child than consider raising a child with autism.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> Do you have any idea how many things could correlate with that graph?  You could probably link TV ownership to that as well.  Or how frequently people use the word "cool" to mean fashionable.  You just chose vaccines because you want something to blame, and don't actually need any real proof.


i said or other environmental toxins or a synergistic effect of the combinations of multiple toxins being introduced into out living environment  ,one graph  is showing glyphosate the other is showing vaccines
what else would cause such an increase? it has to be some toxin or combination of toxins they are putting into the enviornment

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Actually vaccines aren't causing any spikes in autism, a better understanding of autism is "causing a spike in autism". In recent years we've grown a better understanding of autism and we've better learned how to diagnosis it. It's not environmental nor vaccines, it's medical science improving.
> There's also proof that the numbers aren't increasing, they are the same as previous generations. The numbers of people being properly diagnosis is what's increasing. Basically, awareness is increasing.
> Regardless, I am referring to my previous statement


yeah i have heard that argument it is possible but just look around, i have never seen so many cases  IRL before
there is definitely an increase and it is not just due to better diagnosis i actually see them all over the place maybe my memory is bad it was not like this before

the numbers most likely reflect both an increase in autism and an increase in diagnosis and better recognition


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i said or other environmental toxins or a synergistic effect of the combinations of multiple toxins being introduced into out living environment  ,one graph  is showing glyphosate the other is showing vaccines
> what else would cause such an increase? it has to be some toxin or combination of toxins they are putting into the enviornment
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


Your profile says your 39, which means you grew up in a generation where anyone with a mental disorder were often hidden away from the public and shoved into private schools and hospitals. It's only been recent years that things changed.
And it's not caused by any external factors, countless studies have proven that. You just want to believe is it.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm still surprized about the fact that some people think autism could be caught by vaccines. First of, one cannot catch autism, they are born with it.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i said or other environmental toxins or a synergistic effect of the combinations of multiple toxins being introduced into out living environment  ,one graph  is showing glyphosate the other is showing vaccines
> what else would cause such an increase? *it has to be some toxin or combination of toxins they are putting into the enviornment*


No it doesn't.  Just because you want it to be that way, that doesn't make it so.

I can say "Women aren't going out with me.  It has to be that they're just intimidated by my good looks."  That's not necessarily true though.  It could be because I'm a huge jackass.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> I'm still surprized about the fact that some people think autism could be caught by vaccines. First of, one cannot catch autism, they are born with it.


they are not saying you "catch " it they are saying  it is from neurotoxins
the diagnosis is not even scientific at all it is not a blood test it is a behavioral test and you can test positive in that same test from other things as well like other neurotoxic poisonings ,like lead poisoning for example
you don't "catch" lead poisoning , you get poisoned and it effects your brain because it is a neurotoxin ,you just get  poisoned ,you don't catch anything

if you have child with lead poison they may exhibit the same  symptoms and test positive using the same behavioral tests
then they rule out lead by blood tests , but other toxins may cause neurological damage and not be detectable in   blood tests so they can be diagnosed the same as autism with a behavioral test


----------



## Mikemk (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was just not that one comment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, there's not enough common sense in the world


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> they are not saying you "catch " it they are saying  it is from neurotoxins
> the diagnosis is not even scientific at all it is not a blood test it is a behavioral test and you can test positive in that same test from other things as well like other neurotoxic poisonings ,like lead poisoning for example
> you don't "catch" lead poisoning , you get poisoned and it effects your brain because it is a neurotoxin ,you just get  poisoned ,you don't catch anything
> 
> ...


There is no correlation between neurotoxins and autism. Do your research please.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> No it doesn't.  Just because you want it to be that way, that doesn't make it so.
> 
> I can say "Women aren't going out with me.  It has to be that they're just intimidated by my good looks."  That's not necessarily true though.  It could be because I'm a huge jackass.


people seem to be under the impression that science in infallible , well it is not, they are also under the false impression that doctors know everything and that they  are gods and are also infallible , they think modern medicine has all the answers 
but truth be told they know absolutely fuckall  
one day eggs are bad for cholesterol the next day it is good, the next day it's bad again, the next day it;s good again
mind you every finding they have a "scientific study" to back up their claims but they still can;t seem to agree on fuckall
b-b-b-but muh science, muh medical system,  muh studies see they can make a study to say anything they want all agree on it today then all disagree on it because of another study tomorrow then go back again
you have just the same chance of getting it right by flipping a coin
and what has modern allopathic medicine or modern science cured lately
hmmm lets see
cancer-nope
aids-nope
 alzheimers-nope
parkinsons-nope
ALS-nope
several paulsy-nope
diabetes-nope
herpes-nope
the common cold-nope

wonderful how miraculous


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> they are not saying you "catch " it they are saying  it is from neurotoxins
> the diagnosis is not even scientific at all it is not a blood test it is a behavioral test and you can test positive in that same test from other things as well like other neurotoxic poisonings ,like lead poisoning for example
> you don't "catch" lead poisoning , you get poisoned and it effects your brain because it is a neurotoxin ,you just get  poisoned ,you don't catch anything
> 
> ...


You are stringing together broken pieces of science, show some actual evidence for once. I have evidence, with peer reviewed studies, research done both through the government and independent, research through countless medical groups, doctors, scientists, and so many other pieces of evidence. There have been countless studies that show that there is no direct connection from vaccines causing autism.
You haven't proven anything!



weatMod said:


> people seem to be under the impression that science in infallible , well it is not, they are also under the false impression that doctors know everything and that they  are gods and are also infallible , they think modern medicine has all the answers
> but truth be told they know absolutely fuckall
> one day eggs are bad for cholesterol the next day it is good, the next day it's bad again, the next day it;s good again
> mind you every finding they have a "scientific study" to back up their claims but they still can;t seem to agree on fuckall
> ...



Ad hominem, you aren't even arguing anymore, you are piecing together scary things in hopes to winning people over to your side.
You aren't even proving a point and you can't even back up your position. Your argument are just weak at best.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> There is no correlation between neurotoxins and autism. Do your research please.


how can you know that when there is not scientific test for autism, only objective behavioral tests, not at all scientific
and there are neurotoxins that will not show up in tests also
 i have done research, i have been poisoned with a neurotoxin  i know i have nerve and brain damage, neurological damage, and there are many other people who have the same damage caused by the same drug  and it does not show up in any tests, not in EEG or functional MRI's or any other neurological test so how can you say that, there is no way to prove it either way
but it is known that there are toxins that can cause severe neurological damage and neither the toxin nor the damage it causes will show up in any test known to   medical science


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> how can you know that when there is not scientific test for autism, only objective behavioral tests, not at all scientific
> and there are neurotoxins that will not show up in tests also
> i have done research, i have been poisoned with a neurotoxin  i know i have nerve and brain damage, neurological damage, and there are many other people who have the same damage caused by the same drug  and it does not show up in any tests, not in EEG or functional MRI's or any other neurological test so how can you say that, there is no way to prove it either way
> but it is known that there are toxins that can cause severe neurological damage and neither the toxin nor the damage it causes will show up in any test known to   medical science


Neurologic sequels caused by neurotoxins != Autism

Also, vaccines don't have neurotoxins. Who thought it would be a good idea to poison people to give them immunity? That just makes no sense.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 17, 2016)

Is that the anti science equivalent of special snowflake syndrome?


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> i really do hope you get severly   floxed some day , you deserve itjust for your sheer smugness alone


Welcome to my ignore list.  What kind of an asshole does one have to be to wish health issues on someone because of a disagreement?
Don't think I'll be missing your "insight"


----------



## Mikemk (Aug 17, 2016)

Well, poisoning people with dead bacteria is what vaccines are.


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> how can you know that when there is not scientific test for autism, only objective behavioral tests, not at all scientific
> and there are neurotoxins that will not show up in tests also
> i have done research, i have been poisoned with a neurotoxin  i know i have nerve and brain damage, neurological damage, and there are many other people who have the same damage caused by the same drug  and it does not show up in any tests, not in EEG or functional MRI's or any other neurological test so how can you say that, there is no way to prove it either way
> but it is known that there are toxins that can cause severe neurological damage and neither the toxin nor the damage it causes will show up in any test known to   medical science


These toxins will not show up in tests, yet we are supposed to believe that those toxins that don't show up exist?


----------



## osaka35 (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> it was just not that one comment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those uh..those show correlation. But really, the steady increase of diagnosing of autism is the fact that the range of diagnosing is expanded almost yearly. Essentially we're getting better at diagnosing it, and changing what it means to be autistic, so you're going to get steadily increased numbers of it.

Also, symptoms of certain autisms aren't really noticeable until around the same time vaccines are scheduled. This is a thing that's fairly well known, and people tend to confuse coincidence for causation.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> how can you know that when there is not scientific test for autism, only objective behavioral tests, not at all scientific
> and there are neurotoxins that will not show up in tests also
> i have done research, i have been poisoned with a neurotoxin  i know i have nerve and brain damage, neurological damage, and there are many other people who have the same damage caused by the same drug  and it does not show up in any tests, not in EEG or functional MRI's or any other neurological test so how can you say that, there is no way to prove it either way
> but it is known that there are toxins that can cause severe neurological damage and neither the toxin nor the damage it causes will show up in any test known to   medical science


I hate to be that girl, but your personal life story is not relevant and at this point an obvious last ditch attempt to at winning through sympathy. 
You were cornered and now you are hoping that your life story will win us over. It's a tragic story, but not relevant to the debate nor a solid piece of evidence.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

FeverishJackal said:


> These toxins will not show up in tests, yet we are supposed to believe that those toxins that don't show up exist?


but they do exist and even the FDA has now been forced to  admit this

i was poisoned by fluroquinolone antibiotics, they are a neurotoxin, the FDA now even stated that they  can cause  permanent  central and peripheral nervous system damage , and it will not show up in tests
i have been researching my condition and there are hundreds of thousands of people with  similar symptoms who say they have had every tests known to science and it does not show up ,from functional MRI to EEG  and many other tests all come back  normal

new FDA warnings , black box warnings,  fluroquinolones cause permanent  brain and nerve damage
https://www.drugwatch.com/2016/05/16/fda-black-box-warning-for-levaquin-cipro-antibiotic-risk/

listen to this pilots story , he was poisoned with these drugs  and he exhibits some of the same symptoms as i got from it and he has had every test known  and they all came back normal



it just shows you that you can be poisoned and sustain neurological damage and  neither the damage nor the agent that caused it will show up in any tests

it just proves the point that yes vaccines could be neurotoxic and be causing autism and there would be no way of knowing or proving it

also this is a good documentary but it is rather mild and does not even  come close to showing the true horrific effects of this class of drugs my symptoms are much worse than this pilots


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 17, 2016)

The definition of "autism" broadened, it wasn't until relatively recently that it started to be regarded as a "spectrum". Originally only Kanner autism (today we call it "low functioning autism" because it impairs cognitive functions and speaking) was regarded as autism, as of today we have high functioning autism (which includes Aspergers') and mid functioning autism (this one is since DSM-V, as far as I know).
And since they're relatively new fields of study (and a lot of aspie girls still don't get diagnosed) the number of autistic people goes up. A famous Italian researcher on high functioning autism thinks up to 10% of the population might be in the spectrum.

Also:


Spoiler


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 17, 2016)

Mikemk said:


> Well, poisoning people with dead bacteria is what vaccines are.


Leaving aside the various other means by which they can be made to do the task, and the pondering of philosophical implications of concepts like "there are no poisons, only poisonous doses", it is dead viruses that you meant. A rather important distinction there.



weatMod said:


> it just proves the point that yes vaccines could be neurotoxic and be causing autism and there would be no way of knowing or proving it


There are plenty of ways of testing such things even if you can't say "ah look they have a build up/lack of/this area firing or not when it normally would not or would...".
The vaccines were not rolled out worldwide all at once with universal takeup at the same time. To that end there are population groups which got it later, or not at all, or have since not got it. Go find those and see if your correlations have similar roll out windows.
Here is an example of such logic in action (around 2:30 if you do not want to watch the whole thing)


On no money for tests? When the peeps behind the concepts can afford to run adverts and do all the events and networking they do. Here is an article covering some of the money donated. http://www.aol.com/article/2015/02/06/money-behind-anti-vaccine-movement/21139953/
It would be more than enough to fund a study. One again has to wonder at the biases of it with the funding coming from it but if all the public funded stuff done outside the US is not enough then maybe.

Earlier you mentioned poor study methods. All such analysis is basic economics, virology/epidemiology, networking modelling... the list of fields could go on for a while.

Normally I do not feel the need to appease feelings. Here though I will say I feel sorry for you, maybe one day you might find reason. I can only hope you do not drag too many others down prior to then.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> people seem to be under the impression that science in infallible , well it is not, they are also under the false impression that doctors know everything and that they  are gods and are also infallible , they think modern medicine has all the answers
> but truth be told they know absolutely fuckall


And yet you believe Andrew Wakefield, who published a fake study in exchange for money.  Don't hate us because we believe people who are actually credible.

Like every other conspiracy theorist, you're cherry picking data, instead of looking at the whole picture.  Pharmaceutical companies aren't innocent (and neither are doctors, the false autism link proves that), but that doesn't mean one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) medical breakthroughs in the past 160 years is just a big lie to get money.

PS: I said 160 years because that's about when germ theory was first established, and I personally consider it to be the biggest medical breakthrough of all time.  But that's entirely personal, and irrelevant.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> *Snip


You are basing your argument on older medication, which is all well and good, but still doesn't show a connection between autism and vaccines. This is what's called a "Straw man," you are piecing together bits and pieces of old information to make a scary sounding argument, again.
Once again, I am going to keep requesting the same thing I've requested this entire time. Show some evidence, medical documents, that are actually relevant to the topic on hand. You've spent this entire thread just grasping at random pieces of information and it's actually kind of sad.


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Leaving aside the various other means by which they can be made to do the task, and the pondering of philosophical implications of concepts like "there are no poisons, only poisonous doses", it is dead viruses that you meant. A rather important distinction there.
> 
> 
> There are plenty of ways of testing such things even if you can't say "ah look they have a build up/lack of/this area firing or not when it normally would not or would...".
> ...



OMG some unknowns raised almost $1.5 million dollars to shill their antivax point of view , THE HORRORS!, meanwhile just ignore the fact that big pharma all but owns the entire media and  has hundreds of billions at it's disposal to shill their point of view
just ignore that almost every single commercial during every news broadcast is an ad for big pharama, just ignore that
just ignore the fact that like 90% of all sponsorship for all television media comes from big pharma  and that they are the ones pushing the pro vaxx  propaganda line
i am sure there is absolutely no bias or conflict of interest there at all

yeah the people spending almost 1.5 million are the real shills not the big pharma companies spending billions and all but owning the media,suuuuree

also your article has disproven several claims made by others here that  the  jump in autism is due only to  better diagnosis.

from the article
"This mission is based on the acknowledged significant increases of previously rare autoimmune and inflammatory diseases that have become prevalent since the 1980s. These diseases include a wide range of conditions varying from asthma to autism and age related neurological diseases such as Alzheimer's."
"ACKNOWLEDGED," "SIGNIFICANT INCREASE OR PREVIOUSLY RARE AUTOIMUNE DISEASES" ,"AUTISM"

" A recent study by Danish researchers suggests that 60 percent of the apparent increase in reports of autism spectrum disorder is due to "changes in diagnostic criteria and the inclusion of out-of-hospital diagnoses," according to CBS News. In 1994, diagnostic criteria changed the symptoms that are supposed to diagnose the disorder. That still leaves 40 percent of the causes of increased diagnoses unaccounted for"
"THAT STILL LEAVES 40% OF THE CAUSES OF INCREASED DIAGNOSIS UNACCOUNTED FOR"


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> OMG some unknowns raised almost $1.5 million dollars to shill their antivax point of view , THE HORRORS!, meanwhile just ignore the fact that big pharma all but owns the entire media and  has hundreds of billions at it's disposal to shill their point of view
> just ignore that almost every single commercial during every news broadcast is an ad for big pharama, just ignore that
> just ignore the fact that like 90% of all sponsorship for all television media comes from big pharma  and that they are the ones pushing the pro vaxx  propaganda line
> i am sure there is absolutely no bias or conflict of interest there at all
> ...


You've missed the point.  There has only ever once been a suggestion that vaccines and autism were linked, and that turned out to be nothing but the result of a bribe.  Millions of lives have been saved because of vaccines. or Billions depending on how you look at, because people who survived had kids. With millions of definitive positive results, and one discredited negative result, I think it's pretty reasonable that not all of us want to join your conspiracy train.

Just because pharmaceutical companies make money off it, that doesn't mean you can assume it's a scam or cover-up.


----------



## XDel (Aug 17, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Let me just cut out the irrelevant parts.
> This statement is just plain false.
> https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy/
> We are in fact living a lot longer compared to generations before us. We are also living a lot healthier without massive outbreaks killing off huge chunks of the population
> ...




Why should I have any faith in ourworldindata.org and wikipdia?


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> Why should I have any faith in ourworldindata.org and wikipdia?


I am not asking for faith, but if you'd like here's more pages showing the same data
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2625386/
As for the wiki links, do I really need to get into details about rapidly spreading plagues?
https://www.google.com/search?q=gre...2j69i57j0l2.2087j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Simple history shows the last time we suffered any great plague was before the common usage of vaccines. After vaccines became common practice they just kind of stopped. Sure there still some rapidly spreading diseases, but nothing like before.
Now why should I put any faith in you, I would also like evidence for your claims.


----------



## proflayton123 (Aug 17, 2016)

Why is it that even on the temp, something like this always has autism involved within it /: 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

proflayton123 said:


> Why is it that even on the temp, something like this always has autism involved within it /:
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know, I was having fun with it though, although it didn't get to milk thread levels just yet.


----------



## Logan Pockrus (Aug 17, 2016)

It's funny how people avoid vaccinations because they're afraid of acquiring something completely arbitrary, like autism.  You probably know that people today generally live longer than all previous generations.  You know why that is?  Because of medical breakthroughs like vaccinations.  People used to be paralyzed by Polio, IF they were lucky enough to survive.  And guess what?  The Polio vaccine nearly rid the USA of Polio altogether.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 17, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> It's funny how people avoid vaccinations because they're afraid of acquiring something completely arbitrary, like autism.  You probably know that people today generally live longer than all previous generations.  You know why that is?  Because of medical breakthroughs like vaccinations.  People used to be paralyzed by Polio, IF they were lucky enough to survive.  And guess what?  The Polio vaccine nearly rid the USA of Polio altogether.


The problem is we're currently in a Renaissance of idiocy. How else do you explain American politics devolving to an "us vs them" war where the only viable candidates are a crook and a liar, and all those teenagers that "convert" to muslim then travel to Isis only to be treated as slaves and killed?

People simply don't realize just how good things are for them, and will gladly throw it away without understanding the implications. And let's assume that vaccines caused autism. So what then? In the dark ages someone who was autistic would be considered possessed and would be tortured to "let the demons out," but now there's a support framework in place so we can learn social nuances that others picked up automatically and become self-sufficient members of society. That's more than I can say about the anti-vax spokeswoman who's only claim to fame is being an old Playboy girl and is now desperate to do anything to keep the gravy train coming in.


----------



## Logan Pockrus (Aug 17, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> The problem is we're currently in a Renaissance of idiocy. How else do you explain American politics devolving to an "us vs them" war where the only viable candidates are a crook and a liar, and all those teenagers that "convert" to muslim then travel to Isis only to be treated as slaves and killed?
> 
> People simply don't realize just how good things are for them, and will gladly throw it away without understanding the implications. And let's assume that vaccines caused autism. So what then? In the dark ages someone who was autistic would be considered possessed and would be tortured to "let the demons out," but now there's a support framework in place so we can learn social nuances that others picked up automatically and become self-sufficient members of society. That's more than I can say about the anti-vax spokeswoman who's only claim to fame is being an old Playboy girl and is now desperate to do anything to keep the gravy train coming in.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> The problem is we're currently in a Renaissance of idiocy. How else do you explain American politics devolving to an "us vs them" war where the only viable candidates are a crook and a liar, and all those teenagers that "convert" to muslim then travel to Isis only to be treated as slaves and killed?
> 
> People simply don't realize just how good things are for them, and will gladly throw it away without understanding the implications. And let's assume that vaccines caused autism. So what then? In the dark ages someone who was autistic would be considered possessed and would be tortured to "let the demons out," but now there's a support framework in place so we can learn social nuances that others picked up automatically and become self-sufficient members of society. That's more than I can say about the anti-vax spokeswoman who's only claim to fame is being an old Playboy girl and is now desperate to do anything to keep the gravy train coming in.


And worst of all, people on a gaming site debating over this.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2016)

DiscostewSM said:


> I can't really say about vaccinations, but I cringe every time there's a commercial about a new drug on TV that's to help with something, but comes with a whole slew of possible side effects that would make one not want to use the drug in the first place.


I should mention here a couple of things
-if it's on TV and says "ask your doctor" at the end don't buy that shit. It's just a corporation trying to make money and your doctor will usually prescribe something that gets the job done better
-I don't know about other drugs, but in the case of antidepressants the whole "suicidal thoughts" thing is just legal speak. It's not that the drug is actually altering your brain in a way that makes you want to kill yourself, it's just that if it's doing its job right it will actually give you enough energy to follow through with a previously formulated plan that you never had the strength for

As a side note, aside from wheatMod being generally uninformed, what all happened in the last ~4 pages?


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> The problem is we're currently in a Renaissance of idiocy. How else do you explain American politics devolving to an "us vs them" war where the only viable candidates are a crook and a liar, and all those teenagers that "convert" to muslim then travel to Isis only to be treated as slaves and killed?
> 
> People simply don't realize just how good things are for them, and will gladly throw it away without understanding the implications. And let's assume that vaccines caused autism. So what then? In the dark ages someone who was autistic would be considered possessed and would be tortured to "let the demons out," but now there's a support framework in place so we can learn social nuances that others picked up automatically and become self-sufficient members of society. That's more than I can say about the anti-vax spokeswoman who's only claim to fame is being an old Playboy girl and is now desperate to do anything to keep the gravy train coming in.


they are both lying crooks, ,not mutually exclusive

and the only reason they let some vapid brokedown irish  fuckslut who can't keep her  finger out of her nose or her gash off the pages of national magazines have a platform is so that they can use her as a strawman
there are more credible people out there against vaccines, the media lets her have her platform because their big pharma sponsors  encourage them to


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 17, 2016)

Seems we have a Dunning-Kruger situation here. Bye.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> there are more credible people out there against vaccines


What, like these?


----------



## weatMod (Aug 17, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> What, like these?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

yes the media that is totally owned by and sponsored by big pharma is not manipulating you or your opinions at all
she is not too dumb to even realize that she is being used, you are right you are just so smart and i am just an idiot


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> yes the media that is totally owned by and sponsored by big pharma is not manipulating you or your opinions at all
> she is not to dumb to even realize that she is being used, you are right you are so smart and i am just an idiot


I find it hilarious that you quote me to a Wikipedia link on the straw-man argument and then proceed to use two in the same post


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

weatMod said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
> 
> yes the media that is totally owned by and sponsored by big pharma is not manipulating you or your opinions at all
> she is not too dumb to even realize that she is being used, you are right you are just so smart and i am just an idiot


This whole thread has just devolved to debunking everything you say and now you are going to accuse someone of a straw man? Dude, look, this was fun, but honestly it's become a dead horse and I am calling it quits for the night. Someone tag me when some actual evidence is posted.


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Someone tag me when some actual evidence is posted.


No need... the pharmas and the government and the doctors and the media _have already tagged you._


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 17, 2016)

mashers said:


> No need... the pharmas and the government and the doctors and the media _have already tagged you._


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

@SomecallmeBerto
I thought that was the Go Compare guy in the thumbnail... If you don't know who he is, consider yourself lucky.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm starting to think we should all just ignore weatMod. He's been arguing for a long time and has yet to produce a drop of evidence to back his claims. The conversation needs to stay civil, and it's starting to feel like we're arguing just for the sake of arguing. 

If an anti-vaxxer wants to provide an intelligent argument based on credible sources, I'll be interested again. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong plenty of times, so maybe I'm wrong about vaccines. I need to see some evidence first though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> I'm starting to think we should all just ignore weatMod. He's been arguing for a long time and has yet to produce a drop of evidence to back his claims. The conversation needs to stay civil, and it's starting to feel like we're arguing just for the sake of arguing.
> 
> If an anti-vaxxer wants to provide an intelligent argument based on credible sources, I'll be interested again. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong plenty of times, so maybe I'm wrong about vaccines. I need to see some evidence first though.


I totally see your point of view here. However, I don't think that ignoring these arguments is the way forward. Knowledge is developed through intelligent debate. While I agree that some people responding here are repeating subjective opinions or anecdotal experiences, it is their choice to bring this information to the discussion. Failure to respond to it risks being seen as 'backing down' or accepting their position.

My view is that illogical or unsubstantiated arguments should always be challenged. We progress as a society by questioning each other. That is exactly what peer review is for - coming at all findings with a sceptical mindset and attempting to fault others' reasoning. It's only by doing so that we make discoveries, refute out of date information, and posit new theories which drive research. As long as these arguments are somewhat civil and rational I don't see any need to ignore one side or another.

The problem comes where only one side is listening to reason, and the other(s) are simple repeating dogma. That's what we're seeing here. But even if you don't get through to that individual, others will see the reason in what you are saying and the majority will benefit from the reasoned arguments.


----------



## XDel (Aug 17, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I am not asking for faith, but if you'd like here's more pages showing the same data
> http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2625386/
> As for the wiki links, do I really need to get into details about rapidly spreading plagues?
> ...




How was this data collected, and how do they account for all those civilizations that the data keepers had not conquered/occupied yet so as to start taking and keeping records of those people's life spans, I.E. the Native Americans?


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> How was this data collected,


The references are at the end of the article.



XDel said:


> and how do they account for all those civilizations that the data keepers had not conquered/occupied yet so as to start taking and keeping records of those people's life spans, I.E. the Native Americans?


I don't really see how that is relevant if the question you're asking is, 'have life expectancies increased since vaccination was discovered'. The obvious comparison to make is between one culture at a time when it didn't use vaccination and the same culture while using vaccination. It doesn't really matter which culture that is, since we're talking about a quasi-experimental design; the culture you are studying is its own control. Including other cultures would actually skew the results.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> How was this data collected, and how do they account for all those civilizations that the data keepers had not conquered/occupied yet so as to start taking and keeping records of those people's life spans, I.E. the Native Americans?


First, sources are in the links provided
Second, that information is not relevant to the topic on hand. You wanted proof and I proved addition proof that matched up with my previous post. You've yet to provide data to back up your previous statement.


----------



## XDel (Aug 17, 2016)

Share links is not science. You guys have not answered my question, and on top of that, you can not dig up a culture from 500 years ago and see how they fair with vaccinations, and even if you could bring them back, the environment would most likely be very much different than the one they were from so the results would not be fair.

Anyhow, why do you people care what people do or don't do to them selves or their own? I mean if a person does vaccinate and they vaccinate their children too, but at some point they fall upon hard times. Are you guys going to open your door to them so they can manage to live comfortably and in good health while they try to get back on their feet? Doubtful.


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> Share links is not science.


Actually providing a citation is a perfectly valid part of the scientific method.



XDel said:


> you can not dig up a culture from 500 years ago and see how they fair with vaccinations


Why would you need to? As I said, if the question is 'do humans live longer with vaccination' then you need to compare a civilisation over time and discuss the points at which vaccination was introduced, hypothesising about its possible influence. Why you would need to 'dig up a culture from 500 years ago' I have no idea.



XDel said:


> the environment would most likely be very much different than the one they were from so the results would not be fair.


That is a very fair point. I would expect any article claiming that vaccinations were responsible for increasing life expectancy to control for other changes in the environment.



XDel said:


> Anyhow, why do you people care what people do or don't do to them selves or their own? I mean if a person does vaccinate and they vaccinate their children too, but at some point they fall upon hard times. Are you guys going to open your door to them so they can manage to live comfortably and in good health while they try to get back on their feet? Doubtful.


If somebody falls on hard times and can't live comfortably or in good health then this affects that person and a limited number of people surrounding them. However, vaccination has implications for the whole population (cf. the previous discussion of herd immunity). For example, if I develop a condition which means I can't be vaccinated for a particular disease and then a whole load of people have _refused to be vaccinated_ for that same disease, they could potentially infect me with said disease. So of course it is in my interests (in that situation) for as many other people as possible to vaccinated.


----------



## XDel (Aug 17, 2016)

Just for fun... a quote from another, much older text that mentions people living up to 120 years old...

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years." - Genesis 6:3

Those ancients, I tell ya... wild imaginations!


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> Just for fun... a quote from another, much older text that mentions people living up to 120 years old...
> 
> Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years." - Genesis 6:3
> 
> Those ancients, I tell ya... wild imaginations!


Citation extremely fucking needed.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> Share links is not science. You guys have not answered my question, and on top of that, you can not dig up a culture from 500 years ago and see how they fair with vaccinations, and even if you could bring them back, the environment would most likely be very much different than the one they were from so the results would not be fair.
> 
> Anyhow, why do you people care what people do or don't do to them selves or their own? I mean if a person does vaccinate and they vaccinate their children too, but at some point they fall upon hard times. Are you guys going to open your door to them so they can manage to live comfortably and in good health while they try to get back on their feet? Doubtful.


Then why did you even bother to ask for addition information if you can't even back up your own previous statement, it shouldn't be hard to provide a basic counter argument with evidence against my claims. It took me 5 minutes to find several sources that matched up. You should be able to easily show something to back up your claims.
I am not even going to bother with your second argument because it's obvious a ploy to distract me.


XDel said:


> Just for fun... a quote from another, much older text that mentions people living up to 120 years old...
> 
> Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years." - Genesis 6:3
> 
> Those ancients, I tell ya... wild imaginations!


This isn't relevant nor proof to your previous claims.


----------



## XDel (Aug 17, 2016)

I could cite a guy who is citing a guy who is citing a guy who is talking out his ass.

Point.... you would have to be there and you would have to do the research your self, first hand. Everything else is hear say. People do and can live long full lives without vaccinations and have been doing so for years.

If you want one, great, to each their own. If you don't want one, then step the fuck back and get your fucking finger outta their pie!


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> I could cite a guy who is citing a guy who is citing a guy who is talking out his ass.
> 
> Point.... you would have to be there and you would have to do the research your self, first hand. Everything else is hear say. People do and can live long full lives without vaccinations and have been doing so for years.
> 
> If you want one, great, to each their own. If you don't want one, then step the fuck back and get your fucking finger outta my pie!


I am going to take this an admittance to defeat because you can't even post a simple rebuttal.


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> I could cite a guy who is citing a guy who is citing a guy who is talking out his ass.
> 
> Point.... you would have to be there and you would have to do the research your self, first hand. Everything else is hear say.


Which is why religious texts are not reliable sources of information on any point whatsoever.



XDel said:


> People do and can live long full lives without vaccinations and have been doing so for years.


We're talking about averages. Saying 'my aunty Mabel never had a single vaccination and lived to 105' is no more evidence against vaccinations than is 'my cousin Barry had a tetanus vaccination at 31 and subsequently died' an argument against them. You have to look at the overall statistics to see what's going in in the general population.



XDel said:


> If you want one, great, to each their own. If you don't want one, then step the fuck back and get your fucking finger outta my pie!


Ironically, you've just provided a really good analogy for herd immunity; if you're not vaccinated, you're a threat to my wellbeing.


----------



## Tigran (Aug 17, 2016)

I just wonder how people like wheatwad and Xdel would handle type 1 diabetes.  

Probably die very painfully from diabetic ketone acidosis.


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

Light relief.


----------



## XDel (Aug 17, 2016)

If I were faced with a life threatening virus, and I knew for sure I needed a vaccine or I was going to die, then sure I would take one!

What I am arguing against is the whole "call the ambulance before I hurt my self mentality", and I guess also, quoting web sites as if that is any different than quoting a scripture that was being misused by a dishonest high priest.

Anyhow, if you can't keep up, I guess I'll admit "defeat" according to your terms and definition.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> If I were faced with a life threatening virus, and I knew for sure I needed a vaccine or I was going to die, then sure I would take one!
> 
> What I am arguing against is the whole "call the ambulance before I hurt my self mentality", and I guess also, quoting web sites as if that is any different than quoting a scripture that was being misused by a dishonest high priest.
> 
> Anyhow, if you can't keep up, I guess I'll admit "defeat" according to your terms and definition.


That's not how vaccines work at all, though. Vaccines don't provide medicine against a virus, they provide a weakened virus to allow your immune system to adapt to the virus and be more effective against an actual virus when it comes.


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> If I were faced with a life threatening virus, and I knew for sure I needed a vaccine or I was going to die, then sure I would take one!
> 
> What I am arguing against is the whole "call the ambulance before I hurt my self mentality"


Do you realise that these statements are contradictory? Preparing your body for possible exposure to an infectious agent seems to be what you are arguing against, yet you state that you would do it. Are you simply being argumentative for the sake of it?



XDel said:


> quoting web sites as if that is any different than quoting a scripture that was being misused by a dishonest high priest.


NO, they are NOT the same thing. What has been quoted is evidence substantiated by references which are subject to peer review. What is 'scripture' subject to? How do we substantiate or refute the claims made therein?



XDel said:


> Anyhow, if you can't keep up, I guess I'll admit "defeat" according to your terms and definition.


Ahh, low-level insults and a phoney concession. A common get-out clause in this kind of situation.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2016)

Next person to post something against vaccines while I'm at my computer and not my phone is going to get a wall of piss ed off text. You have been warned


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> If I were faced with a life threatening virus, and I knew for sure I needed a vaccine or I was going to die, then sure I would take one!
> 
> What I am arguing against is the whole "call the ambulance before I hurt my self mentality", and I guess also, quoting web sites as if that is any different than quoting a scripture that was being misused by a dishonest high priest.
> 
> Anyhow, if you can't keep up, I guess I'll admit "defeat" according to your terms and definition.






You can't change the original topic here. You asked me for proof and I provided, then I asked you for proof. Instead of providing proof, you danced around the question and then started going on off topic tangents.
I gave you peer reviewed researched research with credible sources, then followed it different sources, that sited the same information. That is how science works, when question you provide addition information to back up your claims.

If there's anyone who's doing the "call the ambulance before I hurt my self mentality," it's you. You haven't backed up your claims, you've been going off topic when pressured to back up your claims, and you were the one who quoted scripture for no apparent reason. And yet you still haven't even provided a single bit of proof to your original claim that started this all


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 17, 2016)

mashers said:


> Citation extremely fucking needed.



Indeed, but asking opponents of vaccinations for citation on the internet is an impossibility. They can't cite a source because they have no source to back up their baseless claims.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2016)

XDel said:


> If I were faced with a life threatening virus, and I knew for sure I needed a vaccine or I was going to die, then sure I would take one!


So uh... You planning on getting vaccinated against the Bubonic Plague?


----------



## mashers (Aug 17, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> So uh... You planning on getting vaccinated against the Bubonic Plague?


Sorry to be pedantic, but bubonic plague is neither viral nor life-threatening (in developed countries).


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 17, 2016)

mashers said:


> Sorry to be pedantic, but bubonic plague is neither viral nor life-threatening (in developed countries).


Yeah, it's a bacteria (and if we're being honest do you really think he was differentiating between the two), but there are eight cases per year reported in the US, most recently in Oregon and (I believe?) Illinois, which classifies it as a potential threat, right? :^)

On a more serious note, there is a legitimate concern that it will be weaponized in an aerosol form by terrorists in the near future, along with potentially Anthrax (heard about that recent outbreak in Siberia? There's a concern that since the grave sites of people who died of the illness are public knowledge, they may be dug up)

And that's something that should definitely concern @XDel. Because terrorists.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 18, 2016)

Hmm. Seems that unwatching a thread does not disable like notifications.

I simply do not have the energy for one of my comprehensive rants at the moment, but I will say this: No matter all of the technical details, no matter who said what, no matter what the evidence is; if vaccines caused autism, wouldn't we be hearing from the mothers?

Vaccines are very, very prevalent. Nearly 100% vaccination rates in some countries. If it caused autism, then nearly all children should be autistic. I have never heard of a single case of a mother coming out as declaring the vaccinations she gave her child has made him or her autistic, yet nearly every mother should be talking about this if it were true. No global censorship can fully block these mothers talking about this on social media. Hell, they can barely block Isis recruiters. We should be hearing stories every day about someone's child who has gotten autism, and we should be hearing about close friends and relatives whose children have become autistic due to vaccines.

But we haven't. Not a single fucking one of us. We don't need statistics, science, belief, or even the voucher of Jenny McCarthy trying to stay relevant after her tits started to sag in order to come to the truth. Vaccines do not cause autism. Case closed. Now stop being an idiot and join the real world.


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 18, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> Hmm. Seems that unwatching a thread does not disable like notifications.
> 
> I simply do not have the energy for one of my comprehensive rants at the moment, but I will say this: No matter all of the technical details, no matter who said what, no matter what the evidence is; if vaccines caused autism, wouldn't we be hearing from the mothers?
> 
> ...


The bIg phARmA is silencing those mothers


----------



## Logan Pockrus (Aug 18, 2016)

FeverishJackal said:


> The bIg phARmA is silencing those mothers


"The big pharma" cannot silence mothers across the nation.  How do you propose they silence mothers, anyway?  All you need to do is sign into, say, Facebook, and type "my son got autism because of a vaccine", then click post.  "Big pharma" can't do shit to stop millions of mothers from spreading their message across social media.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 18, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> "The big pharma" cannot silence mothers across the nation.  How do you propose they silence mothers, anyway?  All you need to do is sign into, say, Facebook, and type "my son got autism because of a vaccine", then click post.  "Big pharma" can't do shit to stop millions of mothers from spreading their message across social media.


When I was a child I used to really like riding my bike. One day my bike was stolen and thrown into a tree. When I tracked the thieves down, it turned out to be worse than I thought.
They were Big Pharma and Vaccines! They stole my bike because the act of of riding it was making me healthy without them! Now I have nerve damage!


----------



## Logan Pockrus (Aug 18, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> When I was a child I used to really like riding my bike. One day my bike was stolen and thrown into a tree. When I tracked the thieves down, it turned out to be worse than I thought.
> They were Big Pharma and Vaccines! They stole my bike because the act of of riding it was making me healthy without them! Now I have nerve damage!


I can't exactly tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 18, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> "The big pharma" cannot silence mothers across the nation.  How do you propose they silence mothers, anyway?  All you need to do is sign into, say, Facebook, and type "my son got autism because of a vaccine", then click post.  "Big pharma" can't do shit to stop millions of mothers from spreading their message across social media.


I thought the random capitalization would show the sarcasm, guess not


----------



## Logan Pockrus (Aug 18, 2016)

FeverishJackal said:


> I thought the random capitalization would show the sarcasm, guess not


I noticed the random capitalization, but I guess I thought you were having difficulties typing or something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 18, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> I noticed the random capitalization, but I guess I thought you were having difficulties typing or something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Well it was very hard for me to force myself to type out "big pharma" so you aren't far off


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 18, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> I can't exactly tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.


Having fun  I got bored.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 18, 2016)

mashers said:


> I totally see your point of view here. However, I don't think that ignoring these arguments is the way forward. Knowledge is developed through intelligent debate. While I agree that some people responding here are repeating subjective opinions or anecdotal experiences, it is their choice to bring this information to the discussion. Failure to respond to it risks being seen as 'backing down' or accepting their position.
> 
> My view is that illogical or unsubstantiated arguments should always be challenged. We progress as a society by questioning each other. That is exactly what peer review is for - coming at all findings with a sceptical mindset and attempting to fault others' reasoning. It's only by doing so that we make discoveries, refute out of date information, and posit new theories which drive research. As long as these arguments are somewhat civil and rational I don't see any need to ignore one side or another.
> 
> The problem comes where only one side is listening to reason, and the other(s) are simple repeating dogma. That's what we're seeing here. But even if you don't get through to that individual, others will see the reason in what you are saying and the majority will benefit from the reasoned arguments.


He isn't ready to listen.  We're going in a circle here.  Our arguments have been laid out, and have been returned with what is essentially "Nuh uh!"


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 18, 2016)

We can lay out the same arguments and counterarguments ad nauseum and people who don't want to listen or refuse to listen will still do just that; this is very akin to animal activists who go after videos of foxes and other exotic animals. The same mentality really, and frankly, we can only do our part and hope someday they can listen.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 18, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> We can lay out the same arguments and counterarguments ad nauseum and people who don't want to listen or refuse to listen will still do just that; this is very akin to animal activists who go after videos of foxes and other exotic animals. The same mentality really, and frankly, we can only do our part and hope someday they can listen.


Sometimes though you just can't get through, especially to those who were raised by terrible parents who told them that they were always right so shut up. And then those people grow up and raise kids the same way. The only way to break the cycle is to take a page out of Hitler's book.


----------



## BobDoleOwndU (Aug 18, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> Sometimes though you just can't get through, especially to those who were raised by terrible parents who told them that they were always right so shut up. And then those people grow up and raise kids the same way. The only way to break the cycle is to take a page out of Hitler's book.


I don't think you would need to go that far. You would just need to separate all of the anti-vaxxers and move them to their own population with 0% herd immunity. Nature would would do the rest for you.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 18, 2016)

BobDoleOwndU said:


> I don't think you would need to go that far. You would just need to separate all of the anti-vaxxers and move them to their own population with 0% herd immunity. Nature would would do the rest for you.


Yes, but then you would need to keep them contained. And there will be some that hide among the pro-vaxxers, so you would need to recruit the youth into an organization responsible for ratting out those that do not comply.


----------



## mashers (Aug 18, 2016)

For the record, I'm not comfortable with where this conversation is going. I don't think it's helpful to the discussion, or in good taste, to talk about using Nazi techniques. If I've misunderstood then I apologise, but I'm just saying that this is making me feel a bit uncomfortable.


----------



## BobDoleOwndU (Aug 18, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> Yes, but then you would need to keep them contained. And there will be some that hide among the pro-vaxxers, so you would need to recruit the youth into an organization responsible for ratting out those that do not comply.





mashers said:


> For the record, I'm not comfortable with where this conversation is going. I don't think it's helpful to the discussion, or in good taste, to talk about using Nazi techniques. If I've misunderstood then I apologise, but I'm just saying that this is making me feel a bit uncomfortable.


Yeah, I was just making the point that in a 0% herd immunity environment, anti-vaxxers would be screwed. A full on concentration camp with another Hitler Youth group isn't cool.


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 18, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> He isn't ready to listen.  We're going in a circle here.  Our arguments have been laid out, and have been returned with what is essentially "Nuh uh!"



We can't help people like him. He is long gone. Debates like this are more beneficial to the "fence sitters" We provide the facts in hopes they can be reasoned with. Maybe someday one of those "fence sitters" will look up more info on vaccines and will end up here. They will see all our arguments(both ours and his) and will understand the benefits of vaccines. If not at min they came away learning something and can keep look more and more into it.


----------



## G0R3Z (Aug 18, 2016)

Because there are myths surrounding vaccines. There are disgusting people who genuinely think an Autistic Child is worse than a dead one. Do they cause Autism? No, they don't. Wakefield's paper on the 'link' is widely discredited by every competent immunologist in the world. People say 'big pharma' is greedy, but it costs more to treat a condition than to vaccinate against them. One case of MMR costs $10,000 to treat in total, but only about 20 bucks to vaccinate against. There is no reason to not vaccinate your children, ever. I've vaccinated all my children - one of them is autistic. I also know an anti-vaxxer with an autistic child, proving that bullshit link invalid even more.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 18, 2016)

Here there have been recent proposals of kicking off the order of doctors those who recommend not to vaccinate, and to require the mandatory vaccinations to be done for a child to go to school. I agree with both of those, as a doctor who goes against all the scientific evidence and puts people at risk (usually for money, as these doctors also often write books about antivaxx stuff, perform pseudoscientific "cures for autism" for those who were vaccinated and things like that) shouldn't keep their job, and as I can't see why children who can't get vaccinated (there are actual reasons, like immunodeficiency) should be endangered by antivaxxers' belief in fairy tales.


----------



## G0R3Z (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm from the UK and you have to be vaccinated. You have no choice here, children aren't allowed to attend school until their vaccinations are up to scratch. How do we know? The NHS keeps very strict records of who gets what shots. Even private practices have to hand over their information over to the NHS. Don't want to vaccinate your kids? You lose your kids and they go to a foster parent who will vaccinate them for you.


----------



## rasputin (Aug 18, 2016)

G0R3Z said:


> I'm from the UK and you have to be vaccinated. You have no choice here, children aren't allowed to attend school until their vaccinations are up to scratch. How do we know? The NHS keeps very strict records of who gets what shots. Even private practices have to hand over their information over to the NHS. Don't want to vaccinate your kids? You lose your kids and they go to a foster parent who will vaccinate them for you.



Not everyone, example blair family. The so called elite and affluent are allowed to be very choosey when it comes to what vaccines their children have.


----------



## XDel (Aug 18, 2016)

Did someone say "terrorists"? 

I heard ISIS is recruiting via Social Media and Gaming Networks. I've been on Social Media since the early post Gopher days, and I've been gaming via networks and the Internet for an equal amount of time. Never in my life have I been invited to join the Taliban, ISIS, nor an all Girl Sexual Liberation Event for that matter. I'm feeling quite left out!

Anyhow, I wonder what Billy Boy means in this video when he says that his vaccines will help reduce the world's over population problem? Vaccines save life's right?



There is another video floating around on Youtube where a girl asks Billy Boy about his father's relationship with Eugenics, and Billy kept laughing and saying "Eu... what?", as if the girl was an idiot. Records show though that Bill's father, also a wealthy and highly established man, was on the board of Planned Parenthood, which ironically, first started rearing it's ugly head in poor, primarily black, neighborhoods long before abortion became a thing of burden avoidance and dietary measures.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



G0R3Z said:


> I'm from the UK and you have to be vaccinated. You have no choice here, children aren't allowed to attend school until their vaccinations are up to scratch. How do we know? The NHS keeps very strict records of who gets what shots. Even private practices have to hand over their information over to the NHS. Don't want to vaccinate your kids? You lose your kids and they go to a foster parent who will vaccinate them for you.



Children are state property.


----------



## astronautlevel (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> Did someone say "terrorists"?
> 
> I heard ISIS is recruiting via Social Media and Gaming Networks. I've been on Social Media since the early post Gopher days, and I've been gaming via networks and the Internet for an equal amount of time. Never in my life have I been invited to join the Taliban, ISIS, nor an all Girl Sexual Liberation Event for that matter. I'm feeling quite left out!
> 
> ...



See this comment on the youtube video:


> Mr. Gates thinks that vaccines and better healthcare have the net effect of reducing population growth because people have fewer children when they expect them to survive. This is supported by data linking increasing health with a decrease in birth rate. The most dramatic demonstration of this is in many European countries where standard of living is high and population growth has dropped below what is necessary to maintain the population. So by increasing worldwide health using vaccination and healthcare we can in the long term decrease population growth. Increased access to reproductive health care can also facilitate this.


----------



## G0R3Z (Aug 18, 2016)

rasputin said:


> Not everyone, example blair family. The so called elite and affluent are allowed to be very choosey when it comes to what vaccines their children have.



True that. I was speaking about people who don't have millions to pay for courts. If you're common, then you can't be choosey. Even then, no matter who you are, your records are still in the NHS database - prime ministers and royalty included.


----------



## XDel (Aug 18, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> See this comment on the youtube video:



So they are again studying numbers and using those numbers to presume the motive behind people's reproductive habits?

He is targeting poor and poverty stricken areas where there is a lot of misery and a lot of sex. Sex is a free drug when you are miserable, or when you are hungry, sex is also a commodity on the market. As for the wealthy reproducing less, that is often not because they are afraid their children will not survive and need have many so that one or two might survive to help with work, and eventually tend to them when they are old. They are rich, they don't live like the poor, and often because of this, they often times do not have children, or don't settle down until older, and again often have fewer children for the sake of retaining some sense of leisure. In some cases the children are there for the same reason as the marriage, appearances in the obtuse world of the political elite and material minded. 

As for the speech,  I do not believe Bill is talking about mass genocide through vaccination, I do believe he is talking about killing people's reproductive abilities, probably without their knowledge or will, via vaccinations.

Ironically at the same time, let's say I want to go get my reproductive abilities handicapped, I would first have to bear children in order to have the operation.


----------



## Katsumi San (Aug 18, 2016)

I do not go to doctor in 7+ years!! I am become immune to all things!!(kidding..)


----------



## Monty Kensicle (Aug 18, 2016)

Someone has probably already said it but a bit of social Darwinism is at play here.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> So they are again studying numbers and using those numbers to presume the motive behind people's reproductive habits?
> 
> He is targeting poor and poverty stricken areas where there is a lot of misery and a lot of sex. Sex is a free drug when you are miserable, or when you are hungry, sex is also a commodity on the market. As for the wealthy reproducing less, that is often not because they are afraid their children will not survive and need have many so that one or two might survive to help with work, and eventually tend to them when they are old. They are rich, they don't live like the poor, and often because of this, they often times do not have children, or don't settle down until older, and again often have fewer children for the sake of retaining some sense of leisure. In some cases the children are there for the same reason as the marriage, appearances in the obtuse world of the political elite and material minded.
> 
> ...


So where's actual proof that vaccines impair fertility (vaccines are used everywhere, so it would show easily)? A misinterpreted quote isn't proof of anything.

<troll>It's not Bill Gates behind this anyway. It's Steve Jobs, whose death was faked to make him able to work full time for the NWO. NWO was like "he managed to make millions of people buy those overpriced devices, he will have no problems convincing them about the safety of those _poisons_"</troll>


----------



## G0R3Z (Aug 18, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> So where's actual proof that vaccines impair fertility (vaccines are used everywhere, so it would show easily)? A misinterpreted quote isn't proof of anything.



I've never seen any studies on this, so until we see one tangible piece of proof then it should be dismissed as tinfoil ramblings.


----------



## XDel (Aug 18, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> So where's actual proof that vaccines impair fertility (vaccines are used everywhere, so it would show easily)? A misinterpreted quote isn't proof of anything.




Nor does the rebuttal disprove. And like I say, why did he try to cop out when asked about his father's history in Eugenics (look it up) and the early days of Planned Parenthood.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Screw it, I'll repeat myself but in different words for more clarity, please keep up.

The explanation given in regards to this quote has been that given the "numbers", it is shown that wealthy people in good health tend to reproduce less because they are not worried that their children will die, thus no need to have many so that one or two at least survive for labor and eventually tending in the parent's older age. As for the poor, they too will have less children for the same reasons.

The thing about this rebuttal is though is that amongst the poor and poverty stricken, there are less ups in life and for that reason, sexual activity increases because people are miserable. So sex is a free drug, or in other cases, currency which can be traded for money which buys food, drugs, and other wants and needs.

Having good health and a longer life will not reduce the reproductive rate amongst the poor and poverty stricken. Rather it will potentially extend the length of their already miserable if not destitute life, and provide optimal opportunity more intercourse coupled with increased fertility because of the increase in health.

The wealthy on the other hand often reproduce for different reasons all together as they live a completely different life style and have different opportunities than the poor. For one, they do not have to worry about having children around to help around the house and take care of them when they are old, and for another they often use their wealth to avoid having children till they are older if not at all. Sometimes they use their wealth to have as many children as they can. Again, there are many variables.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> Nor does the rebuttal disprove. And like I say, why did he try to cop out when asked about his father's history in Eugenics (look it up) and the early days of Planned Parenthood.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> CUT.


Talking semantics about a quote is pointless here.
To summarize, you're saying that vaccines serve an hidden purpose, which is impairing people's fertility.
This would be evident by analyzing them first, and most importantly statistically (as vaccines *are* already used, and *have been used* for a while). So until I see evidence of an unexplainable drop in fertility, and proof that vaccines could have caused it, I will call bull****. And the burden of proof isn't on me to show it's not true, it's on you to show it is.


----------



## XDel (Aug 18, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> Talking semantics about a quote is pointless here.
> To summarize, you're saying that vaccines serve an hidden purpose, which is impairing people's fertility.
> This would be evident by analyzing them first, and most importantly statistically (as vaccines *are* already used, and *have been used* for a while). So until I see evidence of an unexplainable drop in fertility, and proof that vaccines could have caused it, I will call bull****. And the burden of proof isn't on me to show it's not true, it's on you to show it is.



First off, semantics, not to mention logic, is everything man! What are you saying?!?!?

As for the proof...

...well perhaps these vaccines are not the same ones that are on the market at the moment, or perhaps if such vaccines are in use, they are not being used in America or wealthy areas so much as the Jungles of India and so forth. Has anyone looked?


----------



## Monty Kensicle (Aug 18, 2016)

Aurora Wright said:


> Talking semantics about a quote is pointless here.
> To summarize, you're saying that vaccines serve an hidden purpose, which is impairing people's fertility.
> This would be evident by analyzing them first, and most importantly statistically (as vaccines *are* already used, and *have been used* for a while). So until I see evidence of an unexplainable drop in fertility, and proof that vaccines could have caused it, I will call bull****. And the burden of proof isn't on me to show it's not true, it's on you to show it is.


^This, also the medical technology isn't yet available to simply turn off one's ability to reproduce with one shot. Child molesters that have been chemically castrated have to have regular doses to inhibit their libido. So you would think it'd take a lot more than one vaccine to turn off someone's fertility.

That's not to say that governments have never tried eugenics under the guise of a mandatory medical procedure. My grandmother was western Cherokee during the 30's on a reservation, some government types in suits came in and rounded up all the young women and had them examined by a local doctor who told them they all had appendicitis and had to go to the hospital in the city for surgery. Luckily my grandmother was out running errands in the neighboring town of she would have been one of them.


----------



## G0R3Z (Aug 18, 2016)

Monty Kensicle said:


> ^This, also the medical technology isn't yet available to simply turn off one's ability to reproduce with one shot. Child molesters that have been chemically castrated have to have regular doses to inhibit their libido. So you would think it'd take a lot more than one vaccine to turn off someone's fertility.
> 
> That's not to say that governments have never tried eugenics under the guise of a mandatory medical procedure. My grandmother was western Cherokee during the 30's on a reservation, some government types in suits came in and rounded up all the young women and had them examined by a local doctor who told them they all had appendicitis and had to go to the hospital in the city for surgery. Luckily my grandmother was out running errands in the neighboring town of she would have been one of them.



We all know a great deal of anti-vaxxers are scientifically illiterate. They don't realise that technology and research isn't available for use, they'll still say it anyway for justification.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> First off, semantics, not to mention logic, is everything man! What are you saying?!?!?
> 
> As for the proof...
> 
> ...well perhaps these vaccines are not the same ones that are on the market at the moment, or perhaps if such vaccines are in use, they are not being used in America or wealthy areas so much as the Jungles of India and so forth. Has anyone looked?


Your posts have little to do with vaccine and you went off on another (now mostly off topic) tangent without even showing any kind of proof to your claims.


----------



## XDel (Aug 18, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Your posts have little to do with vaccine and you went off on another (now mostly off topic) tangent without even showing any kind of proof to your claims.



It's like a test chamber in here.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> It's like a test chamber in here.


Not really, it's a debate. To debate, you need evidence and some attempt of being relevant to the topic. Every post you've made in this thread thus far have been bold claims, but when asked to back them up, you just attempt to drive the thread off topic.


----------



## XDel (Aug 18, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Not really, it's a debate. To debate, you need evidence and some attempt of being relevant to the topic. Every post you've made in this thread thus far have been bold claims, but when asked to back them up, you just attempt to drive the thread off topic.



Deductive Reasoning my dear Watson, deductive reasoning. Meditate before you post.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> Deductive Reasoning my dear Watson, deductive reasoning. Meditate before you post.


Deductive Reasoning still needs evidence to reason on.


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> Deductive Reasoning my dear Watson, deductive reasoning. Meditate before you post.



Deductive reasoning is good HOWEVER without FACTS you are just blowing a bunch of hot air at best.


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 18, 2016)

XDel said:


> Deductive Reasoning my dear Watson, deductive reasoning. Meditate before you post.


That's extremely hypocritical


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 18, 2016)

...Which leads to my tangent. Hitler has done many horrible horrible things that can never be excused or forgiven. Yet, his end goal was purity of the mind and body in order to lead the world to an age of enlightenment. Would his methods have worked? I really don't think so, as eventually his crimes would be discovered and there would be a major snap-back repealing all of his work. But at least we wouldn't be here in a senseless debate with people who just cannot accept reality.

And no, I don't have any Jewish friends. I'm aware of all the horrible things he had done, but I can still see his line of reasoning - just not where he chose to draw the line.


----------



## Sliter (Aug 18, 2016)

nobody know how an computer antivirus work? It's amost the same with us, but updates need to be injected xD


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 18, 2016)

Katsumi San said:


> I do not go to doctor in 7+ years!! I am become immune to all things!!(kidding..)


Check the credits in any one of my projects.



Sliter said:


> nobody know how an computer antivirus work? It's amost the same with us, but updates need to be injected xD


Not the best analogy, since they make your computer slower.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2016)

Sliter said:


> nobody know how an computer antivirus work? It's amost the same with us, but updates need to be injected xD


I'd say they're more like Service Pack updates for Windows.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


----------



## Sliter (Aug 18, 2016)

Tomato Hentai said:


> I'd say they're more like Service Pack updates for Windows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


why?

but well ANTI VIRUS <<<, they knw about the virus and stop it , this is what our body does XD


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2016)

Sliter said:


> why?
> 
> but well ANTI VIRUS <<<, they knw about the virus and stop it , this is what our body does XD


Because (IIRC) one of the main things Service Pack updates do is patch vulnerabilities which could be dangerous to your computer.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


----------



## Sliter (Aug 18, 2016)

Tomato Hentai said:


> Because (IIRC) one of the main things Service Pack updates do is patch vulnerabilities which could be dangerous to your computer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


oh right


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 19, 2016)

XDel said:


> As for the proof...
> 
> ...well perhaps these vaccines are not the same ones that are on the market at the moment, or perhaps if such vaccines are in use, they are not being used in America or wealthy areas so much as the Jungles of India and so forth. Has anyone looked?


Do you understand the difference between "proof" and "conjecture"?  Because it doesn't look like you do.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 19, 2016)

XDel said:


> As for the proof...
> 
> ...well perhaps these vaccines are not the same ones that are on the market at the moment, or perhaps if such vaccines are in use, they are not being used in America or wealthy areas so much as the Jungles of India and so forth. Has anyone looked?


As for the proof...

*Off the wall speculation thrown in an attempt to save what little credibility you may have left*


----------



## XDel (Aug 19, 2016)

I am still wondering how the people who wrote the Book of Genesis knew that people lived up till aprox 120 years, especially if they were primitive and could not possibly live that long. Stranger still is they claim we once lived longer, and stranger than that is the fact that I once saw a program on the science channel backing up that very claim.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 19, 2016)

XDel said:


> I am still wondering how the people who wrote the Book of Genesis knew that people lived up till aprox 120 years, especially if they were primitive and could not possibly live that long. Stranger still is they claim we once lived longer, and stranger than that is the fact that I once saw a program on the science channel backing up that very claim.


The authenticity of Genesis has no bearing on whether or not vaccines cause autism.  This whole thing is a red hearing.


----------



## XDel (Aug 19, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> The authenticity of Genesis has no bearing on whether or not vaccines cause autism.  This whole thing is a red hearing.




When did I bring up autism? And what does the authenticity of Genesis have to do with the fact that ancients (often presumed ignorant), knew about the human life span at a time when humans were said to have not lived nearly that long?

Come on people, THINK, I know you can do it!!! Keep trying!


----------



## JoostinOnline (Aug 19, 2016)

XDel said:


> When did I bring up autism? And what does the authenticity of Genesis have to do with the fact that ancients (often presumed ignorant), knew about the human life span at a time when humans were said to have not lived nearly that long?
> 
> Come on people, THINK, I know you can do it!!! Keep trying!


I thought you had mentioned autism.  Regardless, it has nothing to do with vaccines.


----------



## XDel (Aug 19, 2016)

JoostinOnline said:


> I thought you had mentioned autism.  Regardless, it has nothing to do with vaccines.



Vaccines are said to have allowed us to reach such ages...


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 19, 2016)

XDel said:


> When did I bring up autism? And what does the authenticity of Genesis have to do with the fact that ancients (often presumed ignorant), knew about the human life span at a time when humans were said to have not lived nearly that long?
> 
> Come on people, THINK, I know you can do it!!! Keep trying!


This an interesting post, be nice if you proved some actual evidence or relevance to the topic.


XDel said:


> I am still wondering how the people who wrote the Book of Genesis knew that people lived up till aprox 120 years, especially if they were primitive and could not possibly live that long. Stranger still is they claim we once lived longer, and stranger than that is the fact that I once saw a program on the science channel backing up that very claim.


This has nothing to do with the topic on hand and I refer to my previous post


Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Every post you've made in this thread thus far have been bold claims, but when asked to back them up, you just attempt to drive the thread off topic.





XDel said:


> Vaccines are said to have allowed us to reach such ages...


They didn't "allow" us to live longer, they've helped us live longer. A better understanding of hygiene and vaccines help prevent us from dying off every couple of years due to massive outbreaks. And helped us not die in our 30's/40's due to preventable diseases. And you know how I know how I can prove that? Because I proved evidence proving it in my earlier post.

How about you actually prove me wrong for once and post something relevant to the topic on hand or maybe some evidence to back up your previous claims. Because you haven't even posted anything to back up your first post.


----------



## XDel (Aug 19, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> This an interesting post, be nice if you proved some actual evidence or relevance to the topic.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the topic on hand and I refer to my previous post
> 
> ...



I am unsatisfied with your "evidence", my logic, understanding, and experience ring more true. 
How ever did man kind survive this long if we have been so utterly vulnerable to mass outbreaks of virus' up till now? Not to say that mass outbreaks of virus' have not occurred, but I would not say that they have been the number one enemy of man kind historically. Not in the least. 

Likewise, I feel that with sincere dedication, better solutions than vaccines can come about for our tangible problems.


----------



## VinsCool (Aug 19, 2016)

Wait this thread is still going on? I though we were done with the topic.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 19, 2016)

XDel said:


> I am unsatisfied with your "evidence", my logic, understanding, and experience ring more true.
> How ever did man kind survive this long if we have been so utterly vulnerable to mass outbreaks of virus' up till now? Not to say that mass outbreaks of virus' have not occurred, but I would not say that they have been the number one enemy of man kind historically. Not in the least.
> 
> Likewise, I feel that with sincere dedication, better solutions than vaccines can come about for our tangible problems.


Are you for real? What experience? Suddenly you are a doctor now?
Nope, I'm done! This isn't even a debate anymore, you are just an egotistic shallow person who's not even properly debating. You are making bold claims, then patting yourself on the back as if you achieved something. You've provided no evidence, no cohesive argument, nothing and now you are going to discredit my evidence because you are "unsatisfied?" Welcome to my block list because I am sick of listening to your nonsensical bullshit!


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

XDel said:


> How ever did man kind survive this long if we have been so utterly vulnerable to mass outbreaks of virus' up till now? Not to say that mass outbreaks of virus' have not occurred, but I would not say that they have been the number one enemy of man kind historically. Not in the least.


I encourage you to look up "Yersinia pestis," "typhus," "anthrax," and "Variola major/minor"


----------



## exdeath255 (Aug 20, 2016)

Being skeptical isnt stupid. Going along with something out of guilt is more stupid. People have said things were good for us till 10 years later they find out it was cancerous or induced some other thing. Keep in mind once you take it theres no going back.

Theres also the whole thing about auras and energy/vibe stuff and how it negatively impacts that stuff but  i think that would be  a little over most peoples heads since science has yet to declare it being fact. [This is where half the conspiracy ppl fall under, the other half is plain old mind control or poison or lack of testing]

Also keep in mind people used to think smoking and pop had only positive effects because there wasnt enough testing done over long term.

TLDR :
Science is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. That means that it could be entirely wrong. Only time will tell.


----------



## G0R3Z (Aug 20, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Are you for real? What experience? Suddenly you are a doctor now?
> Nope, I'm done! This isn't even a debate anymore, you are just an egotistic shallow person who's not even properly debating. You are making bold claims, then patting yourself on the back as if you achieved something. You've provided no evidence, no cohesive argument, nothing and now you are going to discredit my evidence because you are "unsatisfied?" Welcome to my block list because I am sick of listening to your nonsensical bullshit!



He made no real argument, just vague statements the entire time and acting as though he was winning the debate. Probably believes in Chem-trails and the illuminati as well.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> Being skeptical isnt stupid. Going along with something out of guilt is more stupid. People have said things were good for us till 10 years later they find out it was cancerous or induced some other thing. Keep in mind once you take it theres no going back.
> 
> Theres also the whole thing about auras and energy/vibe stuff and how it negatively impacts that stuff but  i think that would be  a little over most peoples heads since science has yet to declare it being fact. [This is where half the conspiracy ppl fall under, the other half is plain old mind control or poison or lack of testing]
> 
> Also keep in mind people used to think smoking and pop had only positive effects because there wasnt enough testing done over long term.


Except that in the case of vaccines there's been plenty of testing done over a very long term


----------



## exdeath255 (Aug 20, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Except that in the case of vaccines there's been plenty of testing done over a very long term


only on things we can see / measure though. What about the stuff we cant see or measure yet? That is what some people are worried about since you cant really undo a vaccine.

Also if youre worried about yourself or your kid getting sick, if you have the vaccine youre good to go you dont have to worry about the other non vac kids giving it to you.


----------



## RevPokemon (Aug 20, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Except that in the case of vaccines there's been plenty of testing done over a very long term


Plus you have to realize if a vaccine had known issues the drug manufacturers would not bring it to market most likely due to the possibility of lawsuits and legislative action.


----------



## the_randomizer (Aug 20, 2016)

I've  feeling that this thread will go on ad infinitum, never really coming to an agreement, but I will say to all the anti-vaxxers, best of luck to you, and have fun.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 20, 2016)

In many cases, the testing actually begins once the vaccine hits the market. There are no double blind studies performed beforehand. The published efficacy rates also appear to be reached by questionable means when you realize how many outbreaks begin and spread primarily among those who are fully vaccinated. At least the CDC has finally more or less admitted the annual flu vaccine is completely useless, but you still have to wonder about the rest of it.

Recalls for biologics including vaccines are higher than any other drug class and manufacturers are not liable for any damages that may result.


----------



## XDel (Aug 20, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Are you for real? What experience? Suddenly you are a doctor now?
> Nope, I'm done! This isn't even a debate anymore, you are just an egotistic shallow person who's not even properly debating. You are making bold claims, then patting yourself on the back as if you achieved something. You've provided no evidence, no cohesive argument, nothing and now you are going to discredit my evidence because you are "unsatisfied?" Welcome to my block list because I am sick of listening to your nonsensical bullshit!



Don't hold it against me because you got a low self esteem and are unable to argue. If you don't like my rebuttles, then don't read them.


the_randomizer said:


> I've  feeling that this thread will go on ad infinitum, never really coming to an agreement, but I will say to all the anti-vaxxers, best of luck to you, and have fun.




That's why the thread was began. Even if I had bothered to google and cite web pages that agreed with what I am arguing, people would still say the same things about me that they've been saying already. 

This is just one of those "fire in the hearts of men" threads. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 20, 2016)

I feel bad for some of you. One time this subject came around and I said something I got flamed as though anti was a defensible position. Good times.

Regarding historical plagues and humans coming back then yeah it was covered somewhat. Also various ones made for fantastical social advancement -- the increased wages and conditions as a result of plagues are well documented and a great source for a lot of people looking into things. I don't think I can suggest it as method for inducing social advancement in a populace but it has a nice precedent.



exdeath255 said:


> only on things we can see / measure though. What about the stuff we cant see or measure yet? That is what some people are worried about since you cant really undo a vaccine.
> 
> Also if youre worried about yourself or your kid getting sick, if you have the vaccine youre good to go you dont have to worry about the other non vac kids giving it to you.


Also what can't be measured in this instance?

Equally iImmunity is not complete and total, it is very very good though and very very good works well enough for herd immunity. Also there are some with legit medical reasons for not getting certain vaccines (immunological disorders, some other sicknesses -- don't be slamming an immune system of someone that will be health in 2 years but not now) troubles with certain ingredients and so forth, again we go back to herd immunity. Or if you prefer would it be justifiable to castigate someone for smoking in front of their child (in a car/in a house)? Same idea really. If children are indeed innocent then why should they suffer for your dumb cunt decisions sort of thing.



clownb said:


> In many cases, the testing actually begins once the vaccine hits the market. There are no double blind studies performed beforehand. The published efficacy rates also appear to be reached by questionable means when you realize how many outbreaks begin and spread primarily among those who are fully vaccinated. At least the CDC has finally more or less admitted the annual flu vaccine is completely useless, but you still have to wonder about the rest of it.
> 
> Recalls for biologics including vaccines are higher than any other drug class and manufacturers are not liable for any damages that may result.


Testing for almost everything begins once it is on the market -- there are millions of combinations of health factors and other drugs and historical drugs (see also some of the smoking cessation stuff and certain antidepressants). You do the obvious combinations and the common and then go from there.
Otherwise links for the rest please. It could well be and that would the basis for going against accepted logic, maybe not a great one but still one and without links it is still conjecture on a forum.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

XDel said:


> That's why the thread was began. Even if I had bothered to google and cite web pages that agreed with what I am arguing, people would still say the same things about me that they've been saying already.


That doesn't excuse you NOT googling and citing web pages, though


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 20, 2016)

has anyone even discussed how vaccination works?
There are two main ways:
They release a much more tame strain of the virus for your body to kill off and gain memory b and t cells.
or
They put in a dead antigen.
Zero chance of cancer or autism. doesnt even make sense. You can only get a disease due to a dirty needle but thats only an issue in a third world country. Tbh those who disagree are full of shit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ModderFokker619 said:


> Do your research please.  Ive done mine and it has turned me vegan.  My daughters cancer led me to be the healthiest i've been in my life.  Its old news that vaccines are extremely bad for humans.  In fact the whole medical establishment as a whole is a joke.  Holistic doctors are the only real doctors.  Look up truth about cancer - Doctors got killed for some of the knowledge they passed on to us.


veganism in itself isnt even natural. Humans need vitamin b12 which is most easily found in animals so youre not living a healthy life. IDC whether you need a little of it you still need it.


----------



## XDel (Aug 20, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That doesn't excuse you NOT googling and citing web pages, though



Any sincere seeker of truth has already looked for and objectively studied the opposing points of view as best he can.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 20, 2016)

XDel said:


> Any sincere seeker of truth has already looked for and objectively studied the opposing points of view as best he can.


Doesnt mean you cant provide said "truths". I'd love to see them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



clownb said:


> In many cases, the testing actually begins once the vaccine hits the market. There are no double blind studies performed beforehand. The published efficacy rates also appear to be reached by questionable means when you realize how many outbreaks begin and spread primarily among those who are fully vaccinated. At least the CDC has finally more or less admitted the annual flu vaccine is completely useless, but you still have to wonder about the rest of it.
> 
> Recalls for biologics including vaccines are higher than any other drug class and manufacturers are not liable for any damages that may result.


It's not the vaccine makers fault it doesnt work as well, any advantage over a virus is better than nothing. Also this is quite unfair as it is based on the USA and it only. If you open the span to the world you see a totally different story. Also thats the vaccine makers fault for not properly testing the vaccine since the antigens are meant to be dead or severely weakened.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



RevPokemon said:


> Plus you have to realize if a vaccine had known issues the drug manufacturers would not bring it to market most likely due to the possibility of lawsuits and legislative action.


Yeah, its crazy you can even patent vaccines.


----------



## tatripp (Aug 20, 2016)

gudenaurock said:


> I was wondering why people want there children to suffer so much that they do not vaccinate. It makes no sense to me.
> 
> Please try to keep this fairly civil.



How do you ask people to keep it civil with such a loaded question? Why do you assume that people want "[sic] their children to suffer?" 
Isn't it obvious that the anti-vac people want what's best for their kids? They just disagree on what is best. They clearly have a distrust of big pharmaceutical companies which I think is extremely justified. They are misinformed and are getting their information from emotional and unscientific sources. There is no doubt in my mind that they are completely wrong in their belief.

I can understand you accusing them of being misinformed or ignorant, but how can you honestly accuse them of wanting their children to suffer? It is people like you who intentionally don't understand them who push them further away from the truth. Why are they going to believe you about the science behind vaccines when you intentionally misrepresent them to such an egregious degree?


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 20, 2016)

tatripp said:


> How do you ask people to keep it civil with such a loaded question? Why do you assume that people want "[sic] their children to suffer?"
> Isn't it obvious that the anti-vac people want what's best for their kids? They just disagree on what is best. They clearly have a distrust of big pharmaceutical companies which I think is extremely justified. They are misinformed and are getting their information from emotional and unscientific sources. There is no doubt in my mind that they are completely wrong in their belief.
> 
> I can understand you accusing them of being misinformed or ignorant, but how can you honestly accuse them of wanting their children to suffer? It is people like you who intentionally don't understand them who push them further away from the truth. Why are they going to believe you about the science behind vaccines when you intentionally misrepresent them to such an egregious degree?


I really dont think its justifiable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I agree that vaccines should be law and a child should be taken away from their parents if they refuse. Simply put, an unvaccinated child is a liability to modern day society and just furthers diseases that dont just kill them but thousands of others who have ACTUAL reasons to deny vaccination, other than, "I don't want to because another person told me [insert bullshit myth here]." Its heartbreaking to hear stories of kids dying of diseases so easily preventable. It's illogical to think otherwise.


----------



## XDel (Aug 20, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Doesnt mean you cant provide said "truths". I'd love to see them.



Oh.. ya, sorry. I didn't post any because I don't have any. No one in the history of the medical practice has even been practices of any of the technologies that are sometimes employees, especially in relation to vaccines. 

No sir or mam or salamander that identifies as and types as a human...
...I do not have any links for there are none, everything I have posted is unique and my own thoughts that no one has ever thought before. I am a prodigy, and unique in every way. Bow before me!!!


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

XDel said:


> Oh.. ya, sorry. I didn't post any because I don't have any. No one in the history of the medical practice has even been practices of any of the technologies that are sometimes employees, especially in relation to vaccines.
> 
> No sir or mam or salamander that identifies as and types as a human...
> ...I do not have any links for there are none, everything I have posted is unique and my own thoughts that no one has ever thought before. I am a prodigy, and unique in every way. Bow before me!!!


You know, I honestly can't even tell if you're being sarcastic or serious at this point, because that still sounds exactly like everything you've been posting up to this point


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 20, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> has anyone even discussed how vaccination works?
> There are two main ways:
> They release a much more tame strain of the virus for your body to kill off and gain memory b and t cells.
> or
> ...


Do basically if vaccines really did give you autism, then so would they disease they are made to prevent?


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> So basically if vaccines really did give you autism, then so would they disease they are made to prevent?


Yeah, basically


----------



## RevPokemon (Aug 20, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> Do basically if vaccines really did give you autism, then so would they disease they are made to prevent?


I feel like answering this just 'cuz.

More or less if you agree with the (freaking stupid) anti vaxxer ideas then there are a variety of ways they could do this theoretically speaking such as by weakening the body (which it does NOT) or having certain non primary elements that have such properties that could lead to autism.

Either way it is retarded af in reality


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

RevPokemon said:


> I feel like answering this just 'cuz.
> 
> More or less if you agree with the (freaking stupid) anti vaxxer ideas then there are a variety of ways they could do this theoretically speaking such as by weakening the body (which it does NOT) or having certain non primary elements that have such properties that could lead to autism.
> 
> Either way it is retarded af in reality


"They have CHEMICALS in them! It ain't natural I tells ya!"


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 20, 2016)

RevPokemon said:


> I feel like answering this just 'cuz.
> 
> More or less if you agree with the (freaking stupid) anti vaxxer ideas then there are a variety of ways they could do this theoretically speaking such as by weakening the body (which it does NOT) or having certain non primary elements that have such properties that could lead to autism.
> 
> Either way it is retarded af in reality


Isnt autism due to gentics?


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 20, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Isnt autism due to gentics?


Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a family that doesn't have autism in its bloodline won't produce an autistic child, or that an autistic couple won't produce a neurotypical child


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 20, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "They have CHEMICALS in them! It ain't natural I tells ya!"


Thats whats so stupid. Literally everything in the universe is chemicals yet if they were made rather than just found, theyre classed as unnatural. like if i made water by burning hydrogen is my water less healthy than river water? Hell no. If anything its better since its pure.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



TotalInsanity4 said:


> Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a family that doesn't have autism in its bloodline won't produce an autistic child, or that an autistic couple won't produce a neurotypical child


yeah, its due to mutations of the genes.


----------



## RevPokemon (Aug 20, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> yeah, its due to mutations of the genes.


True but remember there is currently no "autism gene" in the sense of such gene automatically causes autism


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 20, 2016)

RevPokemon said:


> True but remember there is currently no "autism gene" in the sense of such gene automatically causes autism


yeah, I believe current studies show it as a mutation of the gene. Like down's syndrome. (except that has to do with matching gene pairs.)


----------



## Harumyne (Aug 20, 2016)

If you plan on living in society yes, probably best to give kids vaccines, because none of the food or water in the modern 1st world countries have anywhere near what they should in enzymes and minerals to give you a strong immune system, it suits the powers that be to have a collective of weakened humans that can't survive without their master.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 21, 2016)

XDel said:


> Don't hold it against me because you got a low self esteem and are unable to argue. If you don't like my rebuttles, then don't read them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all, I was debating with you, I use the word "was" because I held up my end of the debate. I showed facts with backed up evidence, that is how a debate works. It turned into an argument when you refused to back up your statements. I am reading them because that's how a debate is suppose to work, you aren't debating, you are simply making bold statements.
Second: Ad hominem, you are trying to bring a personal attack into a debate, that is not a fact nor relevant to the topic on hand.


XDel said:


> Oh.. ya, sorry. I didn't post any because I don't have any. No one in the history of the medical practice has even been practices of any of the technologies that are sometimes employees, especially in relation to vaccines.
> 
> No sir or mam or salamander that identifies as and types as a human...
> ...I do not have any links for there are none, everything I have posted is unique and my own thoughts that no one has ever thought before. I am a prodigy, and unique in every way. Bow before me!!!


So basically you just admit you made your "facts" and have nothing to back them up. I almost pity you, but I am pretty sure you are just going to reply with some snarky comment like you've been doing. You've accomplish nothing more than revealing your hand and it turned out be junk, please stop trying to bluff it because it's getting rather sad now.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 21, 2016)

Nyanners said:


> If you plan on living in society yes, probably best to give kids vaccines, because none of the food or water in the modern 1st world countries have anywhere near what they should in enzymes and minerals to give you a strong immune system, it suits the powers that be to have a collective of weakened humans that can't survive without their master.



That is a new twist for me, assuming you weren't just sharing something silly you read somewhere.

Now there are immunological things associated with remote living, most notably the hookworms and allergies and some of the isolated tribes, to say nothing of the whole native Americans thing, but generally when a disease is eradicated in the wild it is usually deepest darkest somewhere that it gets eradicated from. Not to mention it is usually deepest darkest somewhere that something is most likely to kill you, though a decent case of the squirts will probably kill you there.



tatripp said:


> How do you ask people to keep it civil with such a loaded question? Why do you assume that people want "[sic] their children to suffer?"
> Isn't it obvious that the anti-vac people want what's best for their kids? They just disagree on what is best. They clearly have a distrust of big pharmaceutical companies which I think is extremely justified. They are misinformed and are getting their information from emotional and unscientific sources. There is no doubt in my mind that they are completely wrong in their belief.
> 
> I can understand you accusing them of being misinformed or ignorant, but how can you honestly accuse them of wanting their children to suffer? It is people like you who intentionally don't understand them who push them further away from the truth. Why are they going to believe you about the science behind vaccines when you intentionally misrepresent them to such an egregious degree?


There are times and places where loaded questions are troubling, not sure it is a problem here though.

Also there have been quite a few "it's just measles" type folks going around, to that end it could be intentional at some level. Just as I don't know the law is no great excuse then I don't want to believe the evidence is not one either.


----------



## exdeath255 (Aug 21, 2016)

Its funny that people say that everyone should get vac. If you have the vac why would you be scared of you or your kid getting the virus? Shouldnt having the vac be good enough? If people dont want to take the vac you should just let nature take its course since it shouldnt have any effect on you.

Alot of people these days just want to be associated with the 'right way' even though it might not be actually correct. like that other guy said a real truth seeker will find out this info for himself and not rely on other peoples opinions and hunches/assumptions.

Actually read both sides of the story with no bias, you might learn something. Keep in mind to have control over people you have to keep them afraid and stupid, thats why we are constantly bombarded with bullshit. 

Also tbh i think vaccines are just another way for the govt and pharmaceutical companies to make money. Think about it. If the vaccines really are bad and make you sick then what would you do to counter that? Another drug. its an endless loop of free money.


----------



## Aurora Wright (Aug 21, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> Its funny that people say that everyone should get vac. If you have the vac why would you be scared of you or your kid getting the virus? Shouldnt having the vac be good enough? If people dont want to take the vac you should just let nature take its course since it shouldnt have any effect on you.


The selfishness in these statements really hits me. Other than that, there are some people with immunodeficiency and things like that *can't* be vaccinated, even if they wanted to, and they can only be protected by herd immunity.



exdeath255 said:


> Alot of people these days just want to be associated with the 'right way' even though it might not be actually correct. like that other guy said a real truth seeker will find out this info for himself and not rely on other peoples opinions and hunches/assumptions. Actually read both sides of the story with no bias, you might learn something.


Just so you know, a mountain of double-blind studies aren't on the same level as a random antivax website/FB page. The only way to disprove them is making your own studies in a scientifically rigorous way and prove them wrong.



exdeath255 said:


> Keep in mind to have control over people you have to keep them afraid and stupid, thats why we are constantly bombarded with bullshit. Also tbh i think vaccines are just another way for the govt and pharmaceutical companies to make money.


Invisible pink unicorns, chemtrails, etc. etc.



exdeath255 said:


> Think about it. If the vaccines really are bad and make you sick then what would you do to counter that? Another drug. its an endless loop of free money.


Except such a purpose would be evident by analyzing them or just statistically, by noticing unexplained spreads of illnesses/worsening of health. Both of which didn't happen.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 21, 2016)

After reading this thread I'm beginning to suspect vaccines PREVENT autism.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 21, 2016)

Futurdreamz said:


> After reading this thread I'm beginning to suspect vaccines PREVENT autism.


maybe.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 21, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> Alot of people these days just want to be associated with the 'right way' even though it might not be actually correct. like that other guy said a real truth seeker will find out this info for himself and not rely on other peoples opinions and hunches/assumptions.


Funny you mention that, I used to be very hardcore conservative on a lot of issues until recently, until I did just that; reading information with an open mind with the intent of learning something.

You also would probably do well to take the advice of someone with credibility behind him, since I assume that "that other guy" you're talking about is XDel, who is either trolling or very, very misguided


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 21, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Funny you mention that, I used to be very hardcore conservative on a lot of issues until recently, until I did just that; reading information with an open mind with the intent of learning something.
> 
> You also would probably do well to take the advice of someone with credibility behind him, since I assume that "that other guy" you're talking about is XDel, who is either trolling or very, very misguided


Or literally insane?


----------



## FeverishJackal (Aug 21, 2016)

Or misguided to troll which then makes him look insane


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 22, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Or literally insane?


I mean, I didn't want to say "stupid"


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 22, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I mean, I didn't want to say "stupid"


ARGH political correctness strikes again...


----------



## exdeath255 (Aug 23, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Funny you mention that, I used to be very hardcore conservative on a lot of issues until recently, until I did just that; reading information with an open mind with the intent of learning something.
> 
> You also would probably do well to take the advice of someone with credibility behind him, since I assume that "that other guy" you're talking about is XDel, who is either trolling or very, very misguided



Credibility? Like from a random guy on the internet, from a hacking site no less? Gimme a break.

Link to any site that proves vaccines do anything beneficial. I want to see what sources you deem credible.


----------



## flame1234 (Aug 23, 2016)

Wikipedia is tertiary sources (where available). Tertiary sources represent the current thinking on a topic. Tertiary sources don't always agree, but in this case they do.


----------



## exdeath255 (Aug 23, 2016)

Just because everyone agrees with something doesnt make it true.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 23, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> Just because everyone agrees with something doesnt make it true.


No, but when there's actual studies, peer reviewed research, and decades of evidence, that makes it true. There's far more evidence pointing to the greater benefits of vaccines compared to the few bad cases.
When it comes down to vaccines, they aren't a matter of belief that people just "agree" work. They are proven to work and to have benefited human society.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 23, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> Credibility? Like from a random guy on the internet, from a hacking site no less? Gimme a break.
> 
> Link to any site that proves vaccines do anything beneficial. I want to see what sources you deem credible.


Here, have an entire flipping list of peer reviewed resources
http://vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/research.cfm


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 23, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Here, have an entire flipping list of peer reviewed resources
> http://vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/research.cfm


ohhh he did it now, are you going to respond with your own list of peer reviewed resources?


----------



## rasputin (Aug 23, 2016)

peer reviewed lol, paid for by cdc and big pharma


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 23, 2016)

rasputin said:


> peer reviewed lol, paid for by cdc and big pharma


Then surely you have a list that wasn't paid for? 

Honestly I think you need to take a good look at yourself. How's your family? What are your friends like? Do you have any girlfriend or job prospects? Do you have a career plan? Are you prepared to move forward in your life? Or do you intend to keep taking in cheap thrills like basking in the attention caused by annoying others, all the while ignoring your deteriorating reality?

We are compelled to help you accept facts and reality, but what is motivating you? I really doubt you truly believe what you are saying, or maybe you are simply incapable of considering ideas that conflict with you're own. If it's the latter then you really need help, but if it's the former then you need to grow up. This is not some meaningless discussion such as if team Mystic or team Valor is better, but something that has real world implications. People are actually getting sick from diseases that were eradicated from North America decades ago, and some people are dying. You don't need to blast stupidity over the internet to gain acknowledgment, you can get it from talking to friends and learning to be civil to others. Step away from the computer. Put down the tenders. Hit the gym. Get a girlfriend. Find your sense of accomplishment somewhere else.


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 23, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> Link to any site that proves vaccines do anything beneficial. I want to see what sources you deem credible.


Assuming you are not just trying to promote better debate technique then what sort of things are we looking for here?
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/the-history-of-vaccination.aspx
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/cphorsphc-respcacsp/2008/fr-rc/cphorsphc-respcacsp05b-eng.php
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/p...da-cdi34suppl.htm~cda-cdi34suppl-ExecSumm.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p0619-hpv-vaccinations.html
http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089/en/
http://ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications/Publications/lets-talk-about-protection-vaccination-guide.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4078488/ Covers the history in India. http://www.indianpediatrics.net/jan2013/jan-111-118.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4317636/ Covers some of the stuff in Russia.
http://japanhealthinfo.com/child-health-and-childcare/vaccination/
http://www.economist.com/news/china...ses-reveals-widespread-corruption-dismal-lack , mainly as it covers some of the things that are considered mandatory in China.
http://www.mrc.gm/our-research/themes/disease-control-elimination/ That would be Gambia's research group that covers west Africa, apparently funded privately and by the UK. http://www.mrc.gm/about-us/
http://www.health.gov.za/index.php/...uman-papilloma-virus-hpv-vaccination-campaign South Africa's health department advocating for it.
http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/g...ildhood-vaccinations-flu-shots-immunizations/

So that is the UK, Canada, Australia, India, Russia, the US, Japan, China, parts of west Africa, South Africa, Israel and Europe all agreeing on the concept. Several of those would also have a financial incentive not to do things on the scales seen which do not work (several of those are publicly funded after all, and other research groups are also publicly funded and thus at least somewhat immune to the machinations of big pill pushers), and in the case of the US insurance companies fight tooth and nail at times to restrict things which do demonstrably work if they are too expensive, and insurance companies are made to provide such things without so much as a copay http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/find-pay-vaccines.html .
To that end that would be a serious mass delusion for it to be not worth it, and a seriously impressive one too as I doubt you would be able to get all those places around the table, let alone agreeing on things.

So maybe there is that big a world conspiracy. We will do the maths
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm
About 4 million births a year. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/child-adolescent.html reckons everybody should get some less than 20 but I will round up.
Cost for vaccines in the US
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/awardees/vaccine-management/price-list/ and the US is notably awful at getting drug prices down, don't know if it applies to vaccinations which are more popular (and thus possibly getting those sweet bulk deals, the whole system gets complex there http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888017/ ) so I will leave that one for now.
Nothing goes over $200 USD and modal is between 10 and 30. $200 it is then. Call it pure profit as well.
200*20 *4000000=16000000000
16 billion a year then. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/
That is a chunk of change, I am not too proud to walk on by if I saw it sitting on the floor or turn it down should I have it offered. Go down to the $20 range as per most on that list and that is 1.6 billion. So a worldwide conspiracy doing near impossible feats in science, politics and economics to all gain nothing. Speaking of doing nothing then http://www.healthline.com/health-ne...s-on-vitamins-and-herbs-that-dont-work-031915 reckons 21 billion by Americans on herbal supplements per year.
That is just the US though so http://www.ecology.com/birth-death-rates/ reckons 131.4 million born per year. Assuming all got them at US rates we multiply that by 33 to get slightly less than the military budget of the US at the $200 per shot range.

Depending upon the logic twisting if I was to assume it is was all unnecessary and the disease went away because of magic/evolution/better cleaning then OK there is not much more to be said. Assuming they are financially motivated and utterly without morals then they fail at economics because ER visits are expensive http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/how-much-does-it-cost-to-go-to-the-er/273599/ is up in the thousands. Complication rates likely to result in a visit http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html reckon 1 in 20, and that was pneumonia was is not an in and out job either.
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.full.pdf reckons 90% infection rate for Americans around 1950 prior to 18, and they definitely knew about isolation and bleach then. Not sure how to slice that one up, how to account for a larger population (this was the baby boom in full swing by the way) in the years since and other stuff like that, none of it is likely to make numbers go down.
That is just one disease as well, not all on that list are truly unpleasant but we get to do get to multiply. I can't be bothered to look it up for all of them though as it is pretty pointless from where I sit.
Oh and that is just using ER visits and assuming they are pure profit for the same company that would have otherwise not pushed a vaccine, we still have ongoing care to consider, let alone something they might ultimately be admitted for.

Maybe they are just doing it for the giggles.

Back on topic, so to speak,
Are population studies a viable thing for you? Not all diseases suddenly had vaccines made and deployed at once. You can then find nice timelines for in the introduction of specific vaccines and their subsequent reduction or elimination from a region. http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.long
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/timelines/polio , perhaps not a suitable source but the CDC does link it http://www.cdc.gov/features/poliofacts/
 Meanwhile other things ticked along nicely until something was made for them, or not as the case may be. Isolation and infection control/sanitation has been known for many years and certainly during living memory, said living memory also containing memories of times prior. Seen as much of this happened over 2 generations at most in wildly differing and, for two generations at least, largely genetically isolated populations it is unlikely to be evolution.

Deliberate infections and controls are somewhat unethical, however there seem to be nice groups providing an non vaccinated control for us now, of large enough genetic diversity and often of otherwise sufficiently good health that it would be hard to argue that it is not some poor bastard in Africa that can barely get enough calories to survive working full time, or people that were somehow otherwise susceptible to it. http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

Are immunological studies more your thing? Vaccinations then consistently resulting in specific antibodies for specific strains of diseases. http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/200/9/1390.full

----

Anyway going back onto something else I have not seen any discussion of what I consider possibly the most loathsome reason I ever saw floated for avoiding them. When the vaccinations for HPV (cervical cancer, and not after a long and productive life, being a common result) were being discussed one of the reasons given against it was "it might encourage people to have sex". Granted that was mainly the US where abstinence only is apparently not something to be ridiculed at every chance.


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 23, 2016)

Wow this is still going? The sad part is that the naysayers provide no evidence that vaccines are bad. Instead they say scream "conspiracy!!!" and leave it at that. We have given you more then enough evidence to prove our points.


----------



## exdeath255 (Aug 23, 2016)

SomecallmeBerto said:


> Wow this is still going? The sad part is that the naysayers provide no evidence that vaccines are bad. Instead they say scream "conspiracy!!!" and leave it at that. We have given you more then enough evidence to prove our points.



There is no 'we'. Fat is the only one who has spent time actually giving links to anything. I personally just dont like depending on the government for things. It gives them all the power if you give in to taking vaccines, and subconsciously you will agree with everything they throw at you once you start doing their programs. All i am doing is being skeptical. If you want to blindly take an injection by the government then so be it. If the vaccine is so good then people shouldnt be worried if some people dont take it. It should only be the non vaccers that die. If not then the vac isnt as good as people think.

the only thing people have to say is that if you dont take it YOU are being selfish. its really the other way around. What if i was forced to take it because you guys couldnt handle me not taking it and i died on the spot right after taking it.

exactly you guys are also being selfish. You are not doing it to help people you are doing it to help yourself just like us skeptics.

Didnt want to have to pull this card but since you all agree with scientists so much, you must all agree that no one has free will as well. So you can blame nature for people like me resisting the vac.
[ i dont agree with the no free will but i bet you guys are the type to ]


----------



## SomecallmeBerto (Aug 23, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> There is no 'we'. Fat is the only one who has spent time actually giving links to anything. I personally just dont like depending on the government for things. It gives them all the power if you give in to taking vaccines, and subconsciously you will agree with everything they throw at you once you start doing their programs. All i am doing is being skeptical. If you want to blindly take an injection by the government then so be it. If the vaccine is so good then people shouldnt be worried if some people dont take it. It should only be the non vaccers that die. If not then the vac isnt as good as people think.
> 
> the only thing people have to say is that if you dont take it YOU are being selfish. its really the other way around. What if i was forced to take it because you guys couldnt handle me not taking it and i died on the spot right after taking it.
> 
> ...





While I agree you should be a skeptical of everything this is not one of those times. All FACTS prove beyond a shadow of a dought that vaccines do a lot more good then harm. As for your second part here is a cartoon that explains why people not taking vaccines are a bad thing -

https://medium.com/the-nib/vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts-5de3d0f9ffd0#.tsy263w09   (thanks TotalInsanity4)

But hey keep attacking my character and don't read the links Fat gave you because who needs to read anymore..."feels before reals" that is the world we seem to live in now.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Aug 23, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> There is no 'we'. Fat is the only one who has spent time actually giving links to anything.


Excuse you I've been providing links too


> I personally just dont like depending on the government for things. It gives them all the power if you give in to taking vaccines, and subconsciously you will agree with everything they throw at you once you start doing their programs.


I feel like you're the person who would rather starve than go on welfare to get back on your feet


> All i am doing is being skeptical. If you want to blindly take an injection by the government then so be it.


I have no problems with being skeptical, in fact I'm glad there ARE people who are skeptical, otherwise, as you said, anyone could really get away with anything. However, I do ask that you provide evidence and reasoning for your skepticality.


> If the vaccine is so good then people shouldnt be worried if some people dont take it. It should only be the non vaccers that die. If not then the vac isnt as good as people think.


If that's how you think vaccines are supposed to work, it's understandable that you take the stance you do. However, it's unfortunately not. It's more of a protective barrier between you and an illness that can be broken if the affliction is powerful enough.
Think of it with this analogy: Assume you own a motorcycle. Every time you ride it, you accept the risk that if you get into a crash, you're probably fucked. You can be as careful as you want, but all the careful driving in the world won't prevent someone else from being dumb on the road and colliding with you.
However, there is stuff that you can do to lessen the damage of an accident; you can wear a helmet to prevent brain damage, leather to prevent cuts, scrapes and burns, and pads to prevent broken joints. In spite of the fact that an accident may be more serious than what protective gear may help with, it still lessens the impact and may help you survive the accident. Should an accident occur, would you rather be geared up, or in a tshirt and shorts?



> the only thing people have to say is that if you dont take it YOU are being selfish. its really the other way around. What if i was forced to take it because you guys couldnt handle me not taking it and i died on the spot right after taking it.


I can assure you that won't happen



> exactly you guys are also being selfish. You are not doing it to help people you are doing it to help yourself just like us skeptics.


No, we are NOT. Herd immunity has been discussed at length in this thread. However, in case you missed it, this explains the concept very well



> Didnt want to have to pull this card but since you all agree with scientists so much, you must all agree that no one has free will as well. So you can blame nature for people like me resisting the vac.
> [ i dont agree with the no free will but i bet you guys are the type to ]


That is both hypocritical and a strawman argument, and I don't see how that relates to the topic at hand at all


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 23, 2016)

The world health organisation is not a government group, several others in that were general researchers with no particular incentive to fake data to that extent

Not all related to what you posted but covering some things seen recently in this thread. I highly encourage questioning governments, and even in specific vaccinations (various people keep returning to the corrupt CDC and FDA teaming up with NASA and FEMA to take their apples from the tree, recently it seems the flibanserin (Addyi/female viagra) stuff was a bit of a failure of the system/result of pressure groups which was hardly ideal but that is a far cry from systemic corruption on the levels necessary for vaccination to be a non thing but paid for anyway). The notion that big pharma "keeps them silenced" though is ridiculous from where I sit. If nothing else if the security services in the US can't keep their own house in order despite specifically compartmentalising things and scanning for ability to keep secrets to so much as be let in the door then what chance does anybody have to do it across multinational lines, fake the science (one with hundreds of years of historical precedent), fake the economics, fake the statistics well enough (again diseases reducing significantly in scope in accordance to the introductions of the relevant vaccines) that and all for 16 billion a year for the US or a bit north of 300 billion a year for the world in the very best case scenario) for decades when the entry requirements to be a scientist, medical doctor, economist...  are in many ways substantially easier than security clearance.

"If the vaccine is so good then people shouldnt be worried if some people dont take it. It should only be the non vaccers that die. If not then the vac isnt as good as people think."
Anybody that says a simple vaccination confers 100% immunity in the taker does not know the science of immunisation or epidemiology -- things are very very very effective but you need viable hosts to spread things, if there are statistically low chances of transmission because most people are immune then a nasty disease does not become an epidemic or an outbreak. Equally among those not having vaccinations are those which would really like the effects of it but can not have it for whatever reason (people with immune deficiencies for one, people not yet able to take it thanks to age for another), also those which might consent to it if they knew what goes (I can't fault a 14 year old which has to live with the choices its parents make, and 14 is about the time many places would hold you criminally responsible for things http://www.unicef.org/pon97/p56a.htm ) and there are other variations on such things.
From where I sit it is no less wrong than arguing "everybody else has car insurance so why do I need it?".

"What if i was forced to take it because you guys couldnt handle me not taking it and i died on the spot right after taking it."
Assuming it was a direct cause and you had no other indicators worth testing for that would show you could not take it then that would be an unfortunate event. Fortunately there are a whole host of very acceptable things which have a far higher casualty rate both in numbers and in percentages of people which engage in them than the combined total of every case of unknown contraindication, malpractice, unknown fault and probably non things like increased cases of autism even if we assume older periods when diagnosis was less common were actually the baseline. As already covered the alternatives are 90% infection rates (maybe less if we want to isolate people from work/school for given periods and really go in for it) with 1 in 20 chances of serious complications. "for the greater good of society" is a notion which underpins most laws, philosophies, religions, evolution of biological groupings*. If absolute individualism is your chosen philosophy then so be it, it is however not a popular or well accepted one.
Spin it another way though. What if you became the demonstrable source for a pocket of disease in which several people were killed and/or seriously impaired, even if only losing a few months of work, for your wilful negligence. There is scope under the law for a charge there http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/states/exposure.html
People are also increasingly mobile.

*even apex predators hang around in groups.

As for free will then though I would say humans have some pretty decent tells and traits (as iffy as a lot of psychology and the like are they do provide things which you can in turn exploit against most humans, regards of ethnicity, almost regardless of level of education, most types of training, most religions (apparently Buddhist monks do well against microexpressions https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17723885-100-the-word-liar/ ) but when all is said and done simple entropy and most of what is known about biology would argue for some measure of organism derived selection of actions. Similarly twin studies would seem to indicate environment has a factor in things. Could it be that the universe's cycle has led to this point and was predictable by some greater than universe style computer. Why not, there are more improbable things which are believed.
Such an introduction to the debate is better than "the conspiracy" but still probably falls under several fallacies, first of all probably some flavour of strawman. That said I am slightly curious as to the prevalence of free will or not among groupings now.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Aug 23, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> There is no 'we'. Fat is the only one who has spent time actually giving links to anything. I personally just dont like depending on the government for things. It gives them all the power if you give in to taking vaccines, and subconsciously you will agree with everything they throw at you once you start doing their programs. All i am doing is being skeptical. If you want to blindly take an injection by the government then so be it. If the vaccine is so good then people shouldnt be worried if some people dont take it. It should only be the non vaccers that die. If not then the vac isnt as good as people think.
> 
> the only thing people have to say is that if you dont take it YOU are being selfish. its really the other way around. What if i was forced to take it because you guys couldnt handle me not taking it and i died on the spot right after taking it.
> 
> ...


There's a big difference between being skeptical and indiscriminately rejecting information. The issue of vaccines is not solely connected to the government, and there are a lot of independent researchers to back up the benefits of vaccines. And what does no free will have to do with anything? You think it's free will to be able to stab others with no repercussions? You think your free will is void in order to protect the community? Have you ever stopped to wonder _why_ every single civilized country has a form of government? The answer is simple: Anarchy does NOT work on a large scale. The basic theory behind anarchy is that you are free to do whatever you want, and so are those around you - and that includes killing you in your sleep so they can take your food. You think you can simply "defend" yourself? Then they will try poison or something else you weren't expecting, like going after close friends and family members who are unable to defend each other. You can hire a guard, but how do you trust the guard? Even if you can establish a community where everyone has a gentleman's agreement to not hurt each other for food, a stranger from outside the community - or someone experiencing wilted crops - may disregard that agreement. And anarchy requires you to be fully self sufficient. Hard times? You're relying on the mercy of others to survive - and maybe the only ones who can help are someone like a loan shark who does not have your best interest at heart. The Quantum Vibe webcomic universe has in previous arcs studied the theory of anarchy, and even then they have every citizen employed by megacorporations that function quite similarly to a standard government. Governments exists to protect the people and represent their wills, and although some do not respect that focus that is still their purpose. If there's a government you don't like you can't just tear it all down and expect everything to work - that just creates a sudden vacuum that the most heavily armed members fill as a tyrant. You should focus more on identifying how the government can be improved to better serve the people - instead of being some random debatist that argues for tearing down what keeps them safe. 
You're a Canadian citizen too. You really think our government is shit? Try taking a visit to Venezuela or North Korea - and see how well you actually have things. If there is something you currently disagree about on how the government works, maybe focus on that and how to change it - instead of blindly hating everything that's related to the government.


----------



## grossaffe (Aug 24, 2016)

rasputin said:


> peer reviewed lol, paid for by cdc and big pharma


ignored

This thread really is a great resource for weeding out people not worth wasting your time communicating with.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 24, 2016)

exdeath255 said:


> There is no 'we'. Fat is the only one who has spent time actually giving links to anything. I personally just dont like depending on the government for things. It gives them all the power if you give in to taking vaccines, and subconsciously you will agree with everything they throw at you once you start doing their programs. All i am doing is being skeptical. If you want to blindly take an injection by the government then so be it. If the vaccine is so good then people shouldnt be worried if some people dont take it. It should only be the non vaccers that die. If not then the vac isnt as good as people think.
> 
> the only thing people have to say is that if you dont take it YOU are being selfish. its really the other way around. What if i was forced to take it because you guys couldnt handle me not taking it and i died on the spot right after taking it.
> 
> ...


I've provided my fair share of links through out the thread and even backed my information up with more information that confirmed my previous bits of information.
The issue with this thread is that the other side has provide a grand total of zero rebuttals.
It's one thing to be skeptical it's another to be paranoid. You believe that there's some "government" connection to vaccines, but the most the government seems to do is approve of them and provide resources for research. Otherwise the actual testing, reviewing, ect. are done by scientists and doctors. These tests are later reviewed by more doctors and scientists. It actually takes months to even years for a vaccine to get approval for the public and aren't used until they are confirmed safe by peer review.
The only payment they are getting is payment for resources and government approval for public use.
And it is selfish to not vaccinate you or your kids. You are putting both yourself and others in danger. As well the recent anti-vac movement has actually caused countless once rare/extinct diseases are actually having a comeback. 
It's pretty 
And we are helping you by trying to provide proof, it's you who is deliberately ignoring us and claiming to be "skeptical." Which is hard to believe that anyone could still be skeptical when the other side still hasn't even provided a single piece of information to back up their claims.


rasputin said:


> peer reviewed lol, paid for by cdc and big pharma


It would be nice if you could post a single piece of information to back up your claims.



exdeath255 said:


> Credibility? Like from a random guy on the internet, from a hacking site no less? Gimme a break.
> 
> Link to any site that proves vaccines do anything beneficial. I want to see what sources you deem credible.


Fast already beat me to it. So I would like to ask for links to disprove his links. Back up your claims with creditable sources.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 28, 2016)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> has anyone even discussed how vaccination works?
> There are two main ways:
> They release a much more tame strain of the virus for your body to kill off and gain memory b and t cells.
> or
> ...




So inaccurate but let me expand on the subject:

Fortified foods have a good source of B12.  3 micrograms of B12 is recommended per day.
I get 200% my daily value of B12 with my protein shake witch is Vegan and of course doesn't come from animals.


I'm almost a year in and let me tell you guys that it truly is the answer for health.  People I haven't seen in a year are amazed on how I look.


----------



## TheCyberQuake (Aug 28, 2016)

I actually know a family who bought into the vaccination-can-cause-problems hype train and they didn't vaccinate their kids. One of them got severely sick with something that could have been prevented with a vaccine, and now they have brain problems that cause them to randomly have seizures. So they wanted to prevent their kids from having some sort of brain problem but ended up actually causing it to happen.
And these are the same people that leave an ozone machine running in their house 24/7. I swear they just want to kill off the few brain cells they have left.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 28, 2016)

TheCyberQuake said:


> I actually know a family who bought into the vaccination-can-cause-problems hype train and they didn't vaccinate their kids. One of them got severely sick with something that could have been prevented with a vaccine, and now they have brain problems that cause them to randomly have seizures. So they wanted to prevent their kids from having some sort of brain problem but ended up actually causing it to happen.
> And these are the same people that leave an ozone machine running in their house 24/7. I swear they just want to kill off the few brain cells they have left.




My daughter never missed a vaccine and got cancer.  How many doctors have to die for people to listen?


----------



## FAST6191 (Aug 28, 2016)

On diets then how much of that is because you are not ramming whatever you like down your gob and are considering what you are eating?

Also from a book I got earlier today, a 1960s housewife manual


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Aug 28, 2016)

ModderFokker619 said:


> So inaccurate but let me expand on the subject:
> 
> Fortified foods have a good source of B12.  3 micrograms of B12 is recommended per day.
> I get 200% my daily value of B12 with my protein shake witch is Vegan and of course doesn't come from animals.
> ...


Fortified foods are unnatural you obviously dont know what natural is.


----------

