# Wii U hacked?



## Deleted_171835 (Dec 19, 2012)

https://twitter.com/fail0verflow


----------



## andy26129 (Dec 19, 2012)

4ds hacked?


----------



## Snailface (Dec 19, 2012)

Best to link to their twitter:
https://twitter.com/fail0verflow/status/281164792000045057

And for Jesus H. Christ's sake, please no "this PICtures cOUld bee fakings" -- it's failoverflow dummies (more or less the chaps who hacked the Wii)


----------



## Chary (Dec 19, 2012)

Did you also know World Peace was attained today?


----------



## Fluto (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm getting tingly all over o.o


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Dec 19, 2012)

I wonder how they did it....


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

​Well, _*that was quick.*_ Someone in the security department must've really screwed up - that's one of the quickest hacks in history, as if they didn't even try all that hard. That said, I wonder how much can be done with the system at this point.​


----------



## Chary (Dec 19, 2012)

This is real? Wow. First the 3DS, now this. Nintendo must be crying.


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Dec 19, 2012)

The thing that annoys me here is that they don't specify what this means, or what they've done.
They don't need to explain what method they used, or even anything technical.
I just wish they'd say what we can perhaps expect from this progress, whatever progress that is.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> The thing that annoys me here is that they don't specify what this means, or what they've done.
> They don't need to explain what method they used, or even anything technical.
> I just wish they'd say what we can perhaps expect from this progress, whatever progress that is.


fail0verflow doesn't really give press releases unless they have something big prepared - this is just a teaser.


----------



## Dimensional (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ​Well, _*that was quick.*_ Someone in the security department must've really screwed up - that's one of the quickest hacks in history, as if they didn't even try all that hard. That said, I wonder how much can be done with the system at this point.​


What if the private keys were really leaked?


----------



## 431unknown (Dec 19, 2012)

Best Christmas Ever!


----------



## Frank Cadena (Dec 19, 2012)

Wow. Too bad I don't have any plans to buy a WiiU anytime soon even if was hacked. I still have my Wii and I have a ton of games to finish on it before I would even consider purchasing a WiiU. That being said, I'm looking forward to how they pulled this off. I didn't think the WiiU would be hacked this quickly.


----------



## Snailface (Dec 19, 2012)

431unknown said:


> Best Christmas Ever!


Not if I have to buy a second WiiU for hax


----------



## fafaffy (Dec 19, 2012)

Didn't Nintendo say they had a plan already prepared where they could change like some parts of the Wii U (or change something, can't recall what) just in case the Wii U ever did get hacked?


----------



## 431unknown (Dec 19, 2012)

Snailface said:


> Not if I have to buy a second WiiU for hax


I'd just hack the one on hand and buy a new one for legit shiz.


----------



## zachtheninja (Dec 19, 2012)

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## lufere7 (Dec 19, 2012)




----------



## loco365 (Dec 19, 2012)

If this is legit - and all signs are pointing to yes - then yes:

A. Nintendo must be crying
B. Everyone else must be celebrating.






Now who wants hacked Wii U and 3DS consoles?


----------



## DaggerV (Dec 19, 2012)

o.O' coolios. I know I don't have to worry too much, but I rather these hacks stay under the sheets for another year. Online play tends to get ruined to the point you can't PUB.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm not sure if Nintendo should be crying yet as this doesn't say what the hack can do. For all we know, it just allows users to run homebrew.

Honestly, I hope it doesn't allow the ability to play backups.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> The thing that annoys me here is that they don't specify what this means, or what they've done.
> They don't need to explain what method they used, or even anything technical.
> I just wish they'd say what we can perhaps expect from this progress, whatever progress that is.


Well they have the ability to load and display images.  This means one and maybe two things.

1 - It's certain they have access to something outside of a text mode or simply replacing some strings as-is.
2 - Unless they embedded the image in the binary or something, it means they can load outside resources as well.


----------



## DinohScene (Dec 19, 2012)

That...
Was unexpectedly quick!

Inb4 the same twiizer attack to gain access to the Wii U mode's RAM.


----------



## nukeboy95 (Dec 19, 2012)

fake since the wii u is only 2 months old it has a stronger anti homebrew than the wii
it toke omost 3 years  for the 3ds witch  is almost full proff


----------



## CobraStr1ke (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> fake since the wii u is only 2 months old it has a stronger anti homebrew than the wii
> it toke omost 3 years for the 3ds witch is almost full proff


 
^ Its actually 1 month old so you are wrong there....Also this isnt coming from Johnny's basement this is coming from fail0verflow.....


----------



## totalnoob617 (Dec 19, 2012)

i 1st heard of this about 3 days ago on ps3crunch by a very reliable user there ,he said give it a week or 2 and wii u will be wide open, I think his source was hector martin's aka marcan twitter feed, though I asked about this and got a sort of ambiguous answer as to whether it was meant that wii mode or wii u mode was hacked. Guess this answers the question then? Oh well, hopefully fof will be making a presentation at CCC (29c3) this year, maybe a big announcement, or 2.


----------



## nukeboy95 (Dec 19, 2012)

CobraStr1ke said:


> ^ Its actually 1 month old so you are wrong there....Also this isnt coming from Johnny's basement this is coming from fail0verflow.....


in the usa it two
and im still septic


----------



## CobraStr1ke (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> in the usa it two
> and im still septic


 
Didnt it come out on November 18 in the USA? Is it not December 18th in the USA and the 19th in 3 minutes? That would be 1 month my friend...


----------



## nukeboy95 (Dec 19, 2012)

CobraStr1ke said:


> Didnt it come out on November 18 in the USA? Is it not December 18th in the USA and the 19th in 3 minutes? That would be 1 month my friend...


sorry my fault
and that doesn't help the case


----------



## g4jek8j54 (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> it has a stronger anti homebrew than the wii


 
How exactly would you know this?




nukeboy95 said:


> it toke omost 3 years for the 3ds witch is almost full proff


 
The 3DS has nothing to do with the Wii U.  Just because it took almost three years for the 3DS to be hacked does not mean that the Wii U couldn't be hacked much sooner.

Anyway, as was pointed out earlier, this was announced by fail0verflow.  That is pretty much the same group that originally hacked the Wii.


----------



## nukeboy95 (Dec 19, 2012)

g4jek8j54 said:


> How exactly would you know this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nintendo will try their best to keep homebrew off new systems


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> nintendo will try their best to keep homebrew off new systems


I'm glad you cleared that up for us. I had no idea.


----------



## Lurker2 (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> nintendo will try their best to keep homebrew off new systems


Just because you try your best does not mean you will succeed. One mistake and hackers are in your system running unsigned code. Just do yourself a favor and just stop.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Dec 19, 2012)

Lurker2 said:


> Just because you try your best does not mean you will succeed. One mistake and hackers are in your system running unsigned code. Just do yourself a favor and just stop.


 
I wouldn't say mistake, I mean, look how long it took for the 3DS to get supposedly hacked. (I say supposedly because I didnt read that thread and have no idea what the news is)


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 19, 2012)

Chary said:


> Nintendo must be crying.


 
crying that sales are going to skyrocket now that homebrew and free gamez are possible on it?


----------



## geishroy (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> in the usa it two
> and im still septic


still septic huh? must be tough....


----------



## Izen (Dec 19, 2012)

Whatever happened to good ol' Hello Worlds? This image embedding nonsense is too fancy for my blood.


----------



## FireGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> fake since the wii u is only 2 months old it has a stronger anti homebrew than the wii
> it toke omost 3 years for the 3ds witch is almost full proff


It took 3 years for the 3DS to get hacked?
The 3DS hasnt even been out for that long and you can't predict that.
Also FailOverflow are pretty good, they don't really focus on handhelds so this is no big shock.


----------



## nukeboy95 (Dec 19, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> It took 3 years for the 3DS to get hacked?
> The 3DS hasnt even been out for that long and you can't predict that.
> Also FailOverflow are pretty good, they don't really focus on handhelds so this is no big shock.


I just don't think it's hacked.


----------



## FireGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

nukeboy95 said:


> I just don't think it's hacked.


What did you mean by "It took almost 3 years for the 3DS"


----------



## nukeboy95 (Dec 19, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> What did you mean by "It took almost 3 years for the 3DS"


neimod technically has a hacked 3ds with the ability to alter saves.
The amount of stuff added in the last week in 3dbrew points towards hacks
To that end unless I see more proof I'm still not believing the Wii U has been hacked.


----------



## Sir-Fritz (Dec 19, 2012)

Maybe they just found a way to send video to the gamepad itself, and haven't actually hacked the wii u?


----------



## 2ndApex (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm waiting out on a Wii U Smash, Kid Icarus, or Metroid game before I buy a Wii U but if this thing can run homebrew before then I'm running to Best Buy right away.


----------



## Deleted-188346 (Dec 19, 2012)

Sir-Fritz said:


> Maybe they just found a way to send video to the gamepad itself, and haven't actually hacked the wii u?


If that was the case, they'd just lose credibility and anger the community.
I wish they'd just announce exactly what it is that they've accomplished.


----------



## T3GZdev (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ​Well, _*that was quick.*_ Someone in the security department must've really screwed up - that's one of the quickest hacks in history, as if they didn't even try all that hard. That said, I wonder how much can be done with the system at this point.


quicker than vita? lol


----------



## indask8 (Dec 19, 2012)

I think they only broke the gamepad wireless encryption, still as great as when people figured out they could use the DS3/X360 controller/wiimote/kinect with their computer, lots of potential.


----------



## Snailface (Dec 19, 2012)

t377y000 said:


> quicker than vita? lol


The WiiU hack was relatively quicker than Vita. The Vita's unreleased root-mode UVL hack wasn't demonstrated until about 10 months after the Vita launch. Vhbl doesn't count, its a PSP mode sandbox hack.

If vhbl sets the standard for system hack virginity, then the 3ds was hacked on launch day. (r4 gold team-- w/ds flash card)


----------



## Lanlan (Dec 19, 2012)

Did they say somewhere that they hacked it? Because what if they just posted a picture from a gamepad?


----------



## T3GZdev (Dec 19, 2012)

Snailface said:


> The WiiU hack was relatively quicker than Vita. The Vita's unreleased root-mode UVL hack wasn't demonstrated until about 10 months after the Vita launch. Vhbl doesn't count, its a PSP mode sandbox hack.
> 
> If vhbl sets the standard for system hack virginity, then the 3ds was hacked on launch day. (r4 gold team-- w/ds flash card)


 
oh yea lol. 
well no videos of 3ds mode or wii u mode running homebrew yet.
only emulator hacks ds mode/wii mode. running flashcards & homebrew.


----------



## Snailface (Dec 19, 2012)

t377y000 said:


> oh yea lol.
> well no videos of 3ds mode or wii u mode running homebrew yet.
> only emulator hacks ds mode/wii mode. running flashcards & homebrew.


Folks like Failoverflow and Team Twiizers don't need to post videos. They've proven themselves. Over and over.
Yifan-lu is the same way -- if he merely posted "I hacked the Vita" on Wololo, he would be believed. And deservedly so.


----------



## GilBoy (Dec 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> Did they say somewhere that they hacked it? Because what if they just posted a picture from a gamepad?


 
The next tweet after that picture says:

"And just to make it clear, this is from a WiiU, not a PC"


https://twitter.com/fail0verflow/status/281164976058679296


----------



## T3GZdev (Dec 19, 2012)

Snailface said:


> Folks like Failoverflow and Team Twiizers don't need to post videos. They've proven themselves. Over and over.
> Yifan-lu is the same way -- if he merely posted "I hacked the Vita" on Wololo, he would be believed. And deservedly so.


 
I know team twiizers, they were the reason for sudokuhax on dsi. I have sudokuhax on my dsi for dsi mode homebrew dev.
& I have seen ram hack pictures of 3ds, from this other guy neimod. & stuff on 3dsbrew. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neimod/with/8078325837/#photo_8078325837

& well now this picture on wii u, & the pic on the 3ds is hacked page
http://gbatemp.net/threads/3ds-hack-we-hacked-it.339271/

hopefully there will soon something be public that we can do on our own 3ds/wii u consoles. I'm ready for wii u & 3ds homebrew development lol and for what will become of it.


----------



## CobraStr1ke (Dec 19, 2012)

Someone in another forum said this is a full kernel exploit....Any idea if this is true?


----------



## Snailface (Dec 19, 2012)

CobraStr1ke said:


> Someone in another forum said this is a full kernel exploit....Any idea if this is true?


Who, what forum?

I usually tend to be optimistic, but this sounds too good to be true.


----------



## Dartz150 (Dec 19, 2012)

The faster you are, the faster the girls leave you... not this time , I hope all of this gets released on christmas, both hacks for 3DS and WiiU.


----------



## CobraStr1ke (Dec 19, 2012)

Well this person is on gamefaqs but they are very knowledgeable, frequent many forums and I am also waiting for them to point me to where this was stated. I would have laughed if it was one of the many trolls or immature peeps on gfaqs but I have seen them many times before. I will edit this post if they have a source but this is what they stated.

*** Update ---> I was told to look at Richiswesome's post .....http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=45572188

If true I personally hope this doesnt lead to the games being ripped and loaded. I want the Wii U to stay free of iso loading etc for a while before that stuff happens. Playing Zelda a Link to the Past or any other VC games you have purchased off the gamepad, cool, but other than that I dunno \ 0 /
I know theres plenty of other people who feel like this too as weird as it may sound to some of you...All I know is I like my 2d HD games and regardless Ill support them for those alone, as well as a new Zelda and 3 dimensional Mario whenever those come out regardless of what goes down lol.


----------



## Wabsta (Dec 19, 2012)

What logic is there to say "<insert device> was hacked in 1 year, now way <other device> can't be hacked in only 2 months because it has better security"?

Anyway, I think Marcan is part of the Failoverflow team, he was one of the big names in wii hacking. (One of the creators of HBC right?)


----------



## Heran Bago (Dec 19, 2012)

Too bad failoverfl0w doesn't release anything for fear of being sued. Can't wait for someone else to hack it so fail0verflow can talk about how they did it first.
This is a nice (older) gesture though:
http://fail0verflow.com/blog/2012/14days.html


----------



## Jayro (Dec 19, 2012)

fafaffy said:


> Didn't Nintendo say they had a plan already prepared where they could change like some parts of the Wii U (or change something, can't recall what) just in case the Wii U ever did get hacked?


 
Then as a hacker, I'd patch that part of the OS first, so that shit couldn't happen.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

I think he means hardware.


----------



## Ericthegreat (Dec 19, 2012)

DaggerV said:


> o.O' coolios. I know I don't have to worry too much, but I rather these hacks stay under the sheets for another year. Online play tends to get ruined to the point you can't PUB.


If anything like wii/ds it should hurt it that bad.... I want hax now!


----------



## Arras (Dec 19, 2012)

I do remember marcan saying the WiiU security was kinda crappy, but I wasn't expecting this.


----------



## beta4attack (Dec 19, 2012)

What a busy week... now I have to get torn apart trying to decide to update or not >.<


----------



## OrgaMecha4253 (Dec 19, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> If that was the case, they'd just lose credibility and anger the community.
> I wish they'd just announce exactly what it is that they've accomplished.


they might do it after the convention


----------



## raulpica (Dec 19, 2012)

fafaffy said:


> Didn't Nintendo say they had a plan already prepared where they could change like some parts of the Wii U (or change something, can't recall what) just in case the Wii U ever did get hacked?


"Hello customers, your WiiU is currently blocked because our security is crap, and we need to change stuff in your WiiU. Please send it over to Nintendo se we can patch the HAXX in it and re-send it back to you. Thanks"


----------



## lokomelo (Dec 19, 2012)

This came in less time than the wii's mod chips and the bootlegs on snes.


----------



## ferofax (Dec 19, 2012)

Thousands of WiiU units stolen, then this. Why do I get the feeling that those stolen Wii U units (some or all) will be used for reverse-engineering?

Also, a full hack this early in the Wii U's life is likely to dry up 3rd party devs on the Wii U. Could actually kill the console if nobody buys games for it.


----------



## McHaggis (Dec 19, 2012)

ferofax said:


> Thousands of WiiU units stolen, then this. Why do I get the feeling that those stolen Wii U units (some or all) will be used for reverse-engineering?
> 
> Also, a full hack this early in the Wii U's life is likely to dry up 3rd party devs on the Wii U. Could actually kill the console if nobody buys games for it.


Nobody steals 7,000 Wii U units just so they've got some backups in case of bricking.  Those Wii U's are all being sold for a profit, though a few might be used for reverse engineering.  

Also, I can't see this hack drying up 3rd party devs, unless it actually leads to piracy which, knowing fail0verflow, it won't (at least not right away).  There's little point speculating until we know more about it, though.


----------



## RupeeClock (Dec 19, 2012)

Juuuust for the record, it could be pretty easy to display whatever image you wanted on the GamePad by simply loading a Youtube video on the web browser.
Something like a minute-long still of Reggie and the fail0verflow logo, so you can look at the video and I think also hide the playback bar.

But still I'm optimistic, it took surprisingly little time to find ways to work with the Wii mode of the system. Said Wii mode does also interact with the Wii U mode in some minor ways like the Wii U Mii Maker importing Miis from the Wii's Mii Channel, or the Wii channel to return to the Wii U home menu.


----------



## lovewiibrew (Dec 19, 2012)

No backup loading for at least a couple years please. We don't need the console to die this early.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

lovewiibrew said:


> No backup loading for at least a couple years please. We don't need the console to die this early.


Just like the DS and Wii died, right?

Oh wait, they were still making record sales and getting big-name titles years after backup loading...


----------



## BrunoAlvesMontei (Dec 19, 2012)

lovewiibrew said:


> No backup loading for at least a couple years please. We don't need the console to die this early.


 
What?


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 19, 2012)

4 pages in and people are still saying it not real, fail0verflow are not the kinds of people to troll, it is real. These kinds of people, there life is the internet and without there internet rep, there have no life.

Also at the people who say the Wii U can't possible be hacked because it's only a month and 1 day old (as of posting), it can be because the Wii U architecture is similar to that of the Wii's unlike the 3DS which is different from the DS and that why it has taken 3 years for the 3DS to be hacked.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

chaossaturn said:


> Also at the people who say the Wii U can't possible be hacked because it's only a month and 1 day old (as of posting)


Oh, i should probably mention that the PSP version 1.0 firmware actually had no security checks and would run homebrew straight-off.

But that was J-only, the thing had 1.50 when it shipped elsewhere.  Not that that stopped the hacks...


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Just like the DS and Wii died, right?
> 
> Oh wait, they were still making record sales and getting big-name titles years after backup loading...


Just to expand a bit furter on that thought...






My oh my... truly piracy made a dent on software sales, I almost feel bad for owning a flashcart...


----------



## Gnargle (Dec 19, 2012)

Oooooooooh boy.
Oh boy.


----------



## SifJar (Dec 19, 2012)

Heran Bago said:


> Too bad failoverfl0w doesn't release anything for fear of being sued. Can't wait for someone else to hack it so fail0verflow can talk about how they did it first.
> This is a nice (older) gesture though:
> http://fail0verflow.com/blog/2012/14days.html


fail0verflow did release some ps3 stuff, they just pulled it when Sony sued. I see no reason to suggest they won't release WiiU stuff.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Just to expand a bit furter on that thought...
> http://i.imgur.com/e0c1F.jpg?1
> 
> My oh my... truly piracy made a dent on software sales, I almost feel bad for owning a flashcart...


Given "Axis Title" and the JPEG artifacting I'm going to want source on that one. 

But we know that piracy doesn't equal the money of "a lost sale" (I still find that term funny) anyways.


----------



## shakirmoledina (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh interesting, we will see them at the conference.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Just to expand a bit furter on that thought...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
There's only one thing I don't like about this forum and that's all the official idiots, that are on here. To you official people, people pirate games fucking live with it. If you have a problem with it buy your fucking games and stop trying to force your ideas on to others, I don't care if you think it morally wrong, that's your problem.

Another thing illegal downloads are not 1:1, just because new super mario bros was downloaded 1,455,577 times does not mean nintendo lost 1,455,577 retail sales. Among that 1,455,577: were people who were never going to buy new super mario bros in the first place, people who could not afford to buy it, etc. Another example there's people out there who downloaded every DS game, these people would similar not have the money to buy every game on the DS, so it not a sale loss.


----------



## Gnargle (Dec 19, 2012)

chaossaturn said:


> There's only one thing I don't like about this forum and that's all the official idiots, that are on here. To you official people, people pirate games fucking live with it. If you have a problem with it buy your fucking games and stop trying to force your ideas on to others, I don't care if you think it morally wrong, that's your problem.
> 
> Another thing illegal downloads are not 1:1, just because new super mario bros was downloaded 1,455,577 times does not mean nintendo lost 1,455,577 retail sales. Among that 1,455,577: were people who were never going to buy new super mario bros in the first place, people who could not afford to buy it, etc. Another example there's people out there who downloaded every DS game, these people would similar not have the money to buy every game on the DS, so it not a sale loss.


You in charge of reading comprehension
Go back to school, kid.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Given "Axis Title" and the JPEG artifacting I'm going to want source on that one.
> 
> But we know that piracy doesn't equal the money of "a lost sale" (I still find that term funny) anyways.


The source is actually Siliconera, I simply trimmed the PSP part since we were talking about the DS. The numbers come straight from Computer Entertainment Supplier’s Association, they're a rough estimate for the year 2010.

That, and my point was actually supporting what you said and showing that the "pirates" are in the great minority, moreover, they likely wouldn't buy the game in the first place were they unable to download it, so arguing that piracy = lost sales is pointless.


chaossaturn said:


> There's only one thing I don't like about this forum and that's all the official idiots, that are on here. To you official people, people pirate games fucking live with it. If you have a problem with it buy your fucking games and stop trying to force your ideas on to others, I don't care if you think it morally wrong, that's your problem.
> 
> Another thing illegal downloads are not 1:1, just because new super mario bros was downloaded 1,455,577 times does not mean nintendo lost 1,455,577 retail sales. Among that 1,455,577: were people who were never going to buy new super mario bros in the first place, people who could not afford to buy it, etc. Another example there's people out there who downloaded every DS game, these people would similar not have the money to buy every game on the DS, so it not a sale loss.


Your sarcasm detector needs some tweaking, son. That, and calling names really doesn't show how mature and smart you are - quite the opposite. I was supporting Rydian's claim, not contesting it.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Your sarcasm detector needs some tweaking, son. That, and calling names really doesn't show how mature and smart you are - quite the opposite. I was supporting Rydian's claim, not contesting it.


 
I know you were, I was just quoting your post for the chart (I probably should of said).


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

chaossaturn said:


> I know you were, I was just quoting your post for the chart (I probably should of said).


I see. Well, it certainly didn't look it, but that's fine. 

My point was to help people picture how little "damage" pirates did to DS titles - Pokemon Platinum was actually at the top of the "Most Downloaded" list and we can see that it didn't even put a dent in global sales, it remained at the top until SoulSilver was released, with similar results.

...which is odd, since in the same time period, the PSP was in the exact opposite situation - downloads were much, much higher than sales... Not sure how that mechanism worked.


----------



## Heran Bago (Dec 19, 2012)

chaossaturn said:


> There's only one thing I don't like about this forum and that's all the official idiots, that are on here. To you official people, people pirate games fucking live with it. If you have a problem with it buy your fucking games and stop trying to force your ideas on to others, I don't care if you think it morally wrong, that's your problem.
> 
> Another thing illegal downloads are not 1:1, just because new super mario bros was downloaded 1,455,577 times does not mean nintendo lost 1,455,577 retail sales. Among that 1,455,577: were people who were never going to buy new super mario bros in the first place, people who could not afford to buy it, etc. Another example there's people out there who downloaded every DS game, these people would similar not have the money to buy every game on the DS, so it not a sale loss.


I just want to edit the games I buy and play them with modified characters or new levels in an offline environment. I love ROM hacking and fan translations and it just kills me that fan translators and entitled pirates like yourself have to work together for a common goal.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Dec 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Given "Axis Title" and the JPEG artifacting I'm going to want source on that one.
> 
> *But we know that piracy doesn't equal the money of "a lost sale"* (I still find that term funny) anyways.


 
Gray area. And by that I mean that people such as myself and others see it as it is. But it also depends on the situation and whether or not the person played it fully and kept it or what. Too many variables.


----------



## Wanderlei777 (Dec 19, 2012)

chaossaturn said:


> 4 pages in and people are still saying it not real, fail0verflow are not the kinds of people to troll, it is real. These kinds of people, there life is the internet and without there internet rep, there have no life.


 
We dont know what it is, it could be something very unimpressive, it could be from wii-mode, we dont know, it could be Marcan big noting himself again. Its just a picture to show off, so far.


----------



## The Riolu (Dec 19, 2012)

"GameCube Hacked?"

Oh wait.


----------



## chartube12 (Dec 19, 2012)

Sir-Fritz said:


> Maybe they just found a way to send video to the gamepad itself, and haven't actually hacked the wii u?


 
I was just about to comment this as a possibility.


----------



## Nah3DS (Dec 19, 2012)

I just came


----------



## SirAileron (Dec 19, 2012)

Hell, getting any Wii-U controller working on the vWii would be awesome anyway. Then I could play even more things from the comfort of my own bed!


----------



## spotanjo3 (Dec 19, 2012)

fail0verflow is a trusted source since they did hacked the ps3 before. I will keep my eyes on this one.

I won't buy Wii U anytime soon since most 3rd party developers aren't supporting it just yet. That concerns me the most. Anyway, I will keep my eyes on it, though.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 19, 2012)

They were showing off stupid hashes on their twitter lately. Now me might know why.


----------



## SifJar (Dec 19, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Gray area. And by that I mean that people such as myself and others see it as it is. But it also depends on the situation and whether or not the person played it fully and kept it or what. Too many variables.


Not in the slightest bit grey. It doesn't matter if you see it that way; if you do, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Of course, _some_ piracy is equivalent to lost sales (there are people who *would* buy the game if they couldn't pirate it). But a reasonable amount of piracy is people who wouldn't buy the game if they could, they just download and play games they otherwise wouldn't care about, or couldn't afford, or whatever their lame excuse is. None of that excuses piracy, it is still wrong. But it is completely incorrect to say that every download is equal to a lost sale.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Dec 19, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Not in the slightest bit grey. It doesn't matter if you see it that way; if you do, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Of course, _some_ piracy is equivalent to lost sales (there are people who *would* buy the game if they couldn't pirate it). But a reasonable amount of piracy is people who wouldn't buy the game if they could, they just download and play games they otherwise wouldn't care about, or couldn't afford, or whatever their lame excuse is. None of that excuses piracy, it is still wrong. But it is completely incorrect to say that every download is equal to a lost sale.


 
And I disagree with you, same with courts and laws and businesses. If piracy didn't equal to loss sales, there wouldn't be a big fuss over it at all.

But let's not turn this into one of those debates and let's stay on topic.


----------



## weavile001 (Dec 19, 2012)

I wonder when the isos will be available for download....


ShadowSoldier said:


> And I disagree with you


looks like black-ice


----------



## SifJar (Dec 19, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> And I disagree with you, same with courts and laws and businesses. If piracy didn't equal to loss sales, there wouldn't be a big fuss over it at all.
> 
> But let's not turn this into one of those debates and let's stay on topic.


It's not an opinion matter; it's a fact. Piracy = _some_ lost sales. But not _every_ pirated copy = 1 lost sale. Anyone disagreeing is wrong, plain and simple. As I said, none of that excuses piracy, it's still wrong. It doesn't matter if you would have paid for it or not, if you *don't* pay for it, you have no right to it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> And I disagree with you, same with courts and laws and businesses. If piracy didn't equal to loss sales, there wouldn't be a big fuss over it at all.
> 
> But let's not turn this into one of those debates and let's stay on topic.


I can assure you that _I _wouldn't have bought a DS if I couldn't use a flashcart on it. That's $145 for Nintendo right there (about the amount I paid for my Lite back in the day). Apparently Nintendo made money because of piracy, go figure.


ShadowSoldier said:


> And I disagree with you, same with courts and laws and businesses. If piracy didn't equal to loss sales, there wouldn't be a big fuss over it at all.


Because courts, laws and business never make a big fuss over nothing.


----------



## Devin (Dec 19, 2012)

*crosses fingers* Getting my WiiU on the 26th.


----------



## Nah3DS (Dec 19, 2012)

why every hack thread turns into piracy talk?
they're like 10 threads about that subject... keep on topic guys!


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> why every hack thread turns into piracy talk?
> they're like 10 threads about that subject... keep on topic guys!


Your response is actually less "on-topic" than piracy chit-chat is, since piracy is often the indirect result of console hacking, as much as we dislike to think about it that way. Self-proclaimed moderation on the other hand is never on-topic.


----------



## Gahars (Dec 19, 2012)

It's not even Christmas yet!

Sheesh, are you pirates spoiled or what?


----------



## weavile001 (Dec 19, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> why every hack thread turns into piracy talk?
> they're like 10 threads about that subject... keep on topic guys!


because hack = piracy


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> because hack = piracy


Uhh... more like...

Hack --> Homebrew (Unsigned Code, User Mode) --> Better Hack (Unsigned or Signed Code, Kernel Access) --> Better Homebrew (Kernel Access, Custom Firmware and whatnot) --> Abuse of Hack --> Piracy (ROM/ISO Loaders)

Piracy itself is rarely the aim, more so an inconvenient consequence.


----------



## Nah3DS (Dec 19, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> because hack = piracy


so? the topic is about failoverflow hacking the Wii U, not how piracy would impact the Wii U sales.
Nethier is about piracy being right/wrong, legal/ilegal


----------



## chrisrlink (Dec 19, 2012)

WHAT? prvt keys leaked man I wished the ps3 prvt keys would be leaked so we can encrypt cfw for higher firmware without needing a flasher


----------



## Deleted member 318366 (Dec 19, 2012)

Wow that was fast, didnt the wii u just came out november 18th? well in the U.S. it did...


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Dec 19, 2012)

I don't think I'd ever bother hacking a console unless it was for some sort of piracy.

Like homebrew is nice and all but there's approximately like... less than five pieces of homebrew I actually enjoyed.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I don't think I'd ever bother hacking a console unless it was for some sort of piracy.
> 
> Like homebrew is nice and all but there's approximately like... less than five pieces of homebrew I actually enjoyed.


Homebrew is mostly applications these days - emulators, media players, IM apps and whatnot, hardly anyone develops actual games. That said, it's fun to doodle every now and then - I find it quite relaxing to code something for a gaming platform, just for the heck of it.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Homebrew is mostly applications these days - emulators, media players, IM apps and whatnot, hardly anyone develops actual games. That said, it's fun to doodle every now and then - I find it quite relaxing to code something for a gaming platform, just for the heck of it.


 
Even in terms of apps. Outside of the firmware and loaders for pirated materials, I don't use anything else. Like I guess an IM app is cool and all but I may as well just chat at 100000x the speed on my computer.

I just find that at least 95% of the time when people say "I want a hack for homebrew" it's followed by a subtle "yeah, just homebrew" wink.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Even in terms of apps. Outside of the firmware and loaders for pirated materials, I don't use anything else. Like I guess an IM app is cool and all but I may as well just chat at 100000x the speed on my computer.
> 
> I just find that at least 95% of the time when people say "I want a hack for homebrew" it's followed by a subtle "yeah, just homebrew" wink.


That's true, I realize that, which is why the Homebrew community should collectively work towards attracting new members - show that coding isn't all that hard and with a little effort, you get to do something incredibly rewarding, even if you "code for the sake of it" like I do.

Besides, it's always nice to play ports of your favourite games from the olden days on the big screen, especially if you still happen to own them - it's not always a matter of piracy.

As for the IM apps, I think they're going to be quite popular on the WiiU since the tablet appears to be perfect for a virtual keyboard and... well, can be taken anywhere, which is close enough to a laptop.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 19, 2012)

SifJar said:


> It's not an opinion matter; it's a fact. Piracy = _some_ lost sales. But not _every_ pirated copy = 1 lost sale. Anyone disagreeing is wrong, plain and simple. As I said, none of that excuses piracy, it's still wrong. It doesn't matter if you would have paid for it or not, if you *don't* pay for it, you have no right to it.


Heh, I love how you continue to post "piracy is wrong" comments in this forum. Anyway, if someone says every pirated copy doesn't equal 1 lost sale, it isn't a fact, it's an opinion. While there is a high probability that every pirated copy indeed doesn't equal 1 lost sale, it takes more than high probability to call something a fact. 1+1 =2 is a fact, a day has 24 hours ia a fact, North America is a bigger country than the UK is a fact, but every pirated copy =! 1 lost sale is an mere opinion, simply because a) you can't prove it (while facts are provable, this isn't), b) lets say I hacked the 3DS (without ever making the hack public) and pirated 10 games that I planned on buying if it wasn't for the hack; this means that 10 pirated copies equal 10 lost sales. So there you have it.

Also, your claim that if people don't pay for a game they have no right for it is, to use a famous quote of yours, nonsense. There are other ways of obtaining a license for a game without paying for it.


----------



## duffmmann (Dec 19, 2012)

Once the hack's full effect comes to fruition, and Nintendo releases their first Gamecube game as a VC title, I wonder how long before the entire GCN collection will be playable.  (Hoping GCN emulation isn't like the N64 on Wii where only a handful of titles could be injected).


----------



## Bent (Dec 19, 2012)

chrisrlink said:


> WHAT? prvt keys leaked man I wished the ps3 prvt keys would be leaked so we can encrypt cfw for higher firmware without needing a flasher


 
I don't see anything about private keys anywhere.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 19, 2012)

raulpica said:


> "Hello customers, your WiiU is currently blocked because our security is crap, and we need to change stuff in your WiiU. Please send it over to Nintendo se we can patch the HAXX in it and re-send it back to you. Thanks"


 
Can't block it if the internet connection is disabled.


----------



## raulpica (Dec 19, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> Can't block it if the internet connection is disabled.


Well, yeah... But mine was a joke, huh


----------



## Janthran (Dec 19, 2012)

It looks like a bad photoshop job to me, but whatever..


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Janthran said:


> It looks like a bad photoshop job to me, but whatever..


fail0verflow = not a photoshop.

They've got better things to do, they're one of the best security-related hacking teams in the world, winning the gold on the latest championships in Russia scoring 100% on all challenges. They have too much to lose by posting a "photoshop", this is as legit as it gets.


----------



## Zetta_x (Dec 19, 2012)

WiiUBricker said:


> Heh, I love how you continue to post "piracy is wrong" comments in this forum. Anyway, if someone says every pirated copy doesn't equal 1 lost sale, it isn't a fact, it's an opinion.


 
I downloaded a game twice. I would not have bought it twice yet alone once.

End proof


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 19, 2012)

So after looking through just the first two pages (I don't have the time right now to read through the rest of this), this is significant because I assume there is no way of displaying images on the WiiU Pad without hacks, right?


----------



## Janthran (Dec 19, 2012)

WiiUBricker said:


> Heh, I love how you continue to post "piracy is wrong" comments in this forum. Anyway, if someone says every pirated copy doesn't equal 1 lost sale, it isn't a fact, it's an opinion.


An opinion means nobody is right or wrong.
It's either a fact or misinformation.


----------



## cdoty (Dec 19, 2012)

Puppy_Washer said:


> The thing that annoys me here is that they don't specify what this means, or what they've done.


 
It's hard not to want to tell someone when you've achieved something like this, even though it's not ready for public release.

I went through this when I was working on 3DO encryption tools, getting code to finally run on the Sega Genesis, Saturn, Neo Geo CD, etc. I could see pieces of it coming together, and at the end created a bootable 3DO CD, but the tools weren't ready for average people to use. I


----------



## Arras (Dec 19, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> So after looking through just the first two pages (I don't have the time right now to read through the rest of this), this is significant because I assume there is no way of displaying images on the WiiU Pad without hacks, right?


There are ways. It's significant because Fail0verflow posted it.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 19, 2012)

SifJar said:


> It's not an opinion matter; it's a fact. Piracy = _some_ lost sales. But not _every_ pirated copy = 1 lost sale. Anyone disagreeing is wrong, plain and simple. As I said, none of that excuses piracy, it's still wrong. It doesn't matter if you would have paid for it or not, if you *don't* pay for it, you have no right to it.


 
The few times I've posted about the game libraries and multiple copies of other games I've bought because I pirated one out of the series is testament to that.

(For the record, Borderlands pirated = 2 copies PC (retail and GOTY), 1 copy 360 (brother liked it), Borderlands 2 pc (haven't played yet), Borderlands 2 360 (again because brother liked the first; Pirated Morrowind and Fallout 3, ended up buying Bethesda Steam pack - Morrowind/Oblivion GOTY, Fallout 3/NV GOTY, whatever else it came with, which I haven't played most of, and Skyrim separately, haven't played yet. Pirating 3 games really made these devs lose some sales.)



WiiUBricker said:


> Heh, I love how you continue to post "piracy is wrong" comments in this forum. Anyway, if someone says every pirated copy doesn't equal 1 lost sale, it isn't a fact, it's an opinion. While there is a high probability that every pirated copy indeed doesn't equal 1 lost sale, it takes more than high probability to call something a fact. 1+1 =2 is a fact, a day has 24 hours ia a fact, North America is a bigger country than the UK is a fact, but every pirated copy =! 1 lost sale is an mere opinion, simply because a) you can't prove it (while facts are provable, this isn't), b) lets say I hacked the 3DS (without ever making the hack public) and pirated 10 games that I planned on buying if it wasn't for the hack; this means that 10 pirated copies equal 10 lost sales. So there you have it.
> 
> Also, your claim that if people don't pay for a game they have no right for it is, to use a famous quote of yours, nonsense. There are other ways of obtaining a license for a game without paying for it.


Bullshit you can't prove it, look at what I just posted. That alone makes it an indisputable fact that every copy of a game pirated does not equate to a lost sale in a 1:1 ratio.  Meaning I can be the only person in the entire world who has done such a thing and it is still a fact.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> So after looking through just the first two pages (I don't have the time right now to read through the rest of this), this is significant because I assume there is no way of displaying images on the WiiU Pad without hacks, right?


This is significant because vWii doesn't have access to the Gamepad at all - it's disabled during vWii initialization. This gives us two possibilities:

fail0verflow hacked the Gamepad firmware
fail0verflow hacked the WiiU, at least to the extent of using the graphics engine
Both options are pretty cool, but they're quite secretive about the hack. That said, they did say it's "Running on the WiiU", so the latter option is more likely.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 19, 2012)

nintendo's reaction after seeing this


----------



## gouki (Dec 19, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> I downloaded a game twice. I would not have bought it twice yet alone once.
> 
> End proof


 
also some people download a game and when they like it they buy it.


----------



## gamefan5 (Dec 19, 2012)

If it's a WiiU hack and fail0verflow was involved, it's 100% legit. Might as well be one of (if not) the fastest hack in the history of console gaming. (not counting handhelds ofc.) XD


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> If it's a WiiU hack and fail0verflow was involved, it's 100% legit. Might as well be one of (if not) the fastest hack in the history of console gaming. (not counting handhelds ofc.) XD


Now, to be fair, they _were_ posting on their blog saying that the WiiU security is pretty crappy throughout the last few weeks, so... it's clear that they were hard at work with this one.


----------



## gamefan5 (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Now, to be fair, they _were_ posting on their blog saying that the WiiU security is pretty crappy throughout the last few weeks, so... it's clear that they were hard at work with this one.


Hmm! Another reason to believe in their hacking abilites. XD I swear, this month has been rather interesting in the hacking business. XD


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The source is actually Siliconera, I simply trimmed the PSP part since we were talking about the DS. The numbers come straight from Computer Entertainment Supplier’s Association, they're a rough estimate for the year 2010.


Okay so most of the artifacting was from your trim of it. XD  Still can't believe they left "Axis Title" though...



ShadowSoldier said:


> Gray area. And by that I mean that people such as myself and others see it as it is. But it also depends on the situation and whether or not the person played it fully and kept it or what. Too many variables.


The concept of a "lost sale" being equal to losing the money is wrong in the first place, that's what I meant.

Let's say I go over to my friend's house and watch one of their DVDs with them.  Suddenly I've seen the movie without paying (only the original copy for them was paid for) and am not required to pay for it to see it (as I just saw it for free by watching somebody else's copy they shared).  Do I need to go to court for that, am I damaging the economy?

Piracy is not a criminal act in general because _the act of pirating something doesn't cause any sort of property or monetary damage_.  *That's why cases for pure piracy are in civil court, not a criminal court*.

Of course, when you get into bootlegging or piracy on a large scale for monetary gain obviously things change (and it gets criminal then), but in this forum we're generally concerned with small-scale piracy for personal use anyways.



ShadowSoldier said:


> And I disagree with you, same with courts and laws and businesses.


Actually...
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...llegal-downloads-dont-equal-17000-lost-sales/

Don't confuse the propaganda with the actual court statements.  The RIAA and such will say all sorts of shit _publicly_ (like stating that piracy is theft) that they'd never say in court because they're smart enough to not risk getting slammed for lying in court.



ShadowSoldier said:


> If piracy didn't equal to loss sales, there wouldn't be a big fuss over it at all.


What's that, you say that companies are _grounded in reality_ and won't do stupid shit and try to grasp at straws and try to make crazy claims just to keep people locked into buying from them?

Yeah, it's not like Apple and other big companies will sue over vague patent designs just to keep competition off the market so people have to buy them...


Hey, isn't it cool how companies never develop any sort of Digital Rights Management to lock your content if they can't confirm on each boot that it's bought from them?


And yeah, it's not like companies like Sony will make specific memory formats to make sure that you have to buy the memory from them or a company that licenses from them...


So you know all those cases of companies trying to place a court embargo on other competing products to stop them from getting sold in the US/UK... don't exist?
Companies are entirely reasonable in their demands of how the world works! =D

The problem is _the wants of many companies are not in line with reality_.  They want to make sure that the only way to get a hold of something is to pay them for it, still in the mindset that it's all physical goods.  That doesn't work with digital content though.  Digital goods are not made of physically-limited materials that need to be specially-worked.  I can use Firefox to download a single text file with the word "cat" in it just as easily as I can download a copy of The Hobbit (if it's even out yet, I don't care), and that puts a kink into how they _want_ the world to work.

They want to still act like everything's physically-limited, like cars (sure can't download a car!), but that's not how the world actually functions.



Foxi4 said:


> As for the IM apps, I think they're going to be quite popular on the WiiU since the tablet appears to be perfect for a virtual keyboard and... well, can be taken anywhere, which is close enough to a laptop.


Oh hell yeah.  A homebrew IM application (or even fancy IRC stuff since it's more stable and bitlbee will update instead of the application needing to) would be great.  As far as I'm aware the IRC protocol hasn't updated in ages (officially, the RFC is a rough base) and most of the updates to IRC programs are client-side bug fixes and feature additions, so assuming somebody doesn't mind the odd process of using bitlbee (rooms and PMs instead of a single buddylist) it'd be preferable to getting fancier programs that die.

'Cause we've all seen how homebrew IM programs work out for other systems... they stop being able to connect eventually.



Foxi4 said:


> This is significant because vWii doesn't have access to the Gamepad at all - it's disabled during vWii initialization. This gives us two possibilities:
> 
> fail0verflow hacked the Gamepad firmware
> fail0verflow hacked the WiiU, at least to the extent of using the graphics engine
> Both options are pretty cool, but they're quite secretive about the hack. That said, they did say it's "Running on the WiiU", so the latter option is more likely.


They stated it's from the Wii U, so they have some sort of access to it.  They're loading a fullscreen image which means either embedding things in a binary, or redirecting some sort of resource call.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> They stated it's from the Wii U, so they have some sort of access to it. They're loading a fullscreen image which means either embedding things in a binary, or redirecting some sort of resource call.


Even if they did this by simply passing RGB data to pixel registers, it's still pretty impressive in that kind of a time frame.


----------



## Gagarin (Dec 19, 2012)

Actually I'm not happy with it. It is too early for WiiU to be hacked. 
Also, I don't think that means anything. I remember when hackers said that Sony had to start a new system because of their hack - now they realized that they were wrong.
Sony was able to patch itself, and at that point Nintendo will do even more to stop piracy on their brand new console. We don't know much about it, but after DS and Wii security I don't think it is going to be as easy as this.


----------



## lovewiibrew (Dec 19, 2012)

As I said I don't want piracy rampant on the Wii U just yet, though I do hope to see a good DS emulator come to the console at some point. TV as the top screen, gamepad as the bottom screen. How awesome that would be.


----------



## gamefan5 (Dec 19, 2012)

Gagarin said:


> Actually I'm not happy with it. It is too early for WiiU to be hacked.
> Also, I don't think that means anything.* I remember when hackers said that Sony had to start a new system because of their hack - now they realized that they were wrong.*
> *Sony was able to patch itself*, and at that point Nintendo will do even more to stop piracy on their brand new console. We don't know much about it, but after DS and Wii security I don't think it is going to be as easy as this.


How can you patch a console when you use the private key of a PS3 to sign ANY software, whcih can't even differentiate from the ones that Sony approved?


----------



## Rydian (Dec 19, 2012)

Sony changed keys, and put in a whitelist for all the old games that used the older keys.  People thought it'd be like the DSi where Nintendo wasn't going to try to hash and make a whitelist of the important bits of each game, but with disc-based media that needs to be spun up (or stick on the HDD) anyways and with the PS3 having the storage space (for the hash tables) and much higher processing capability (for hashing files quickly) it was more feasible for them to do.


----------



## gamefan5 (Dec 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Sony changed keys, and put in a whitelist for all the old games that used the older keys. People thought it'd be like the DSi where Nintendo wasn't going to try to hash and make a whitelist of the important bits of each game, but with disc-based media that needs to be spun up (or stick on the HDD) anyways and with the PS3 having the storage space (for the hash tables) and much higher processing capability (for hashing files quickly) it was more feasible for them to do.


ok lol good to know. XD


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm hearing a bunch of blah, blah, blah about piracy. There hasn't been enough evidence to make or break the idea that the ability to pirate on a system early in it's life span will cause it to fail. "But Devin, the Wii and DS had piracy early on and they're successful!" Doesn't matter, ever system's different. Basing your judgments or theories on previous consoles is a excuse really. It's a good one as it's been said "History is said to repeat itself", but you never know. 

And the other debate is whether or not piracy hurts the industry, or whether it doesn't matter because the software wouldn't have been purchased anyway.  You aren't pirating software, you're pirating someone's work. Just because you bought the system doesn't mean you're entitled to it and just because you're poor, or cheap, or want to try out the game. Wanna try out the game? Go find a demo, a friend who has the game, or look up gameplay online. Because lets be honest, who would pay for something they could get for free? You can change it to whatever makes you sleep at night. "I want it for homebrew, I want it for Region Free!" sure there's like maybe 3% of you who actually want it hacked for those exact reasons. Don't bother replying saying "Yeah I'm part of that three percent" because... No one cares.

I'm the biggest pirate you'll see here. I admit it's wrong, but like I said. Why spend money on something you can get for free? So yeah, that's about it. Been following team fail0verflow for a while now, and I'm glad to see they've been making progress. My hope is getting to play gamecube games on the gamepad.


----------



## Issac (Dec 20, 2012)

WiiUBricker said:


> but every pirated copy =! 1 lost sale is an mere opinion, simply because a) you can't prove it (while facts are provable, this isn't).


 
Well, that's quite easily proven. I could right now go somewhere and download the crappiest shovelware game known to man, just for fun. I would NEVER buy that game. That's one download that is not a lost sale. Proven.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Issac said:


> Well, that's quite easily proven. I could right now go somewhere and download the crappiest shovelware game known to man, just for fun. I would NEVER buy that game. That's one download that is not a lost sale. Proven.


 
You got a copy without buying it. Sale was lost. Doesn't matter how craptastic it was. Developer is out money they would have gotten if you decided to buy that crappy shovelware. You didn't pay, you aren't entitled for that copy.   All in my above post.


----------



## Issac (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> You got a copy without buying it. Sale was lost. Doesn't matter how craptastic it was. Developer is out money they would have gotten if you decided to buy that crappy shovelware. You didn't pay, you aren't entitled for that copy.  All in my above post.


 
Nah, not really. It can't be a lost sale, since I would never buy it. Sure, I have a copy of it which I'm not entitled for, but still they didn't lose a sale because I downloaded it.
I did not download it INSTEAD of buying it. I downloaded it to prove that I can download something which I would never think of buying. But I see your point.

Another perspective: Say I make 5 copies of a game total. (Talk about limited edition!) Then I sell them all! Whoop! But one of the guys puts it online, and get's 5000 downloads. This can't possibly be 5000 lost sales, out of 5 possible. You see what I'm getting at?


----------



## omega59 (Dec 20, 2012)

I love how this got posted after it was pasted on irc HAHA! OH YEAH before i forget check this out too.....

http://pastebin.com/PN66Nc3g

ZombiU.USA.WiiU-VIMTO <------  watch it hit news head lines now.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> You got a copy without buying it. Sale was lost. Doesn't matter how craptastic it was. Developer is out money they would have gotten if you decided to buy that crappy shovelware. You didn't pay, you aren't entitled for that copy.   All in my above post.


Please read my post.  The concept of "lost sale" is bullshit.  It's a lie, it's a fantasy.


----------



## Rockhoundhigh (Dec 20, 2012)

Well fuck... that was quick, now all we have to do is wait for geohot to take all the credit. And on a side note I hope they can keep this piracy free for now, the last thing the Wii U needs this early on is developers and the forums going apeshit over piracy already.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Dec 20, 2012)

Sir-Fritz said:


> Maybe they just found a way to send video to the gamepad itself, and haven't actually hacked the wii u?


That is very possible, but it sure would be disappointing after a teaser like this...
Still, maybe that means they can make it work in Wii Mode without a Wii U mode hack.

Edit:


GilBoy said:


> The next tweet after that picture says:
> 
> "And just to make it clear, this is from a WiiU, not a PC"
> 
> ...


Well, that clears that up. Glad it's not just a WiiU gamepad hack.


----------



## Gagarin (Dec 20, 2012)

Actually, I have better example. If companies are crying about their stolen copies - just take the data back! Take files from pirates hard drives and you got your games recovered! Right?
You do not want that? You want money for each copy in case of arrest, right? Wonder why...


----------



## GameGeek (Dec 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Please read my post. The concept of "lost sale" is bullshit. It's a lie, it's a fantasy.


How is that bullshit? If you pirate a game that you would otherwise have bought, you've costed its makers a sale.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 20, 2012)

GameGeek said:


> How is that bullshit? If you pirate a game that you would otherwise have bought, you've costed its makers a sale.


 
Again. Not necessarily so if the item in question would not have been purchased in the first place.

Let me look in my Games folder. Need for Speed:MW Black Edition, PC. (edit 2 - this reminded me that I have the copy of it I downloaded, making it slightly less urgent to get my 360 copy back from my friend). Would not have bought that, but I pirated it. Me not buying it because I pirated it is as much a "lost sale" as me not buying it because I didn't want it period, which is as much a "lost sale" as me not buying it because I don't have a penny to my name.

Something can't be lost if it was never had to begin with.

Edit - DiRT2, Blacksite - Area 51, Burnout Paradise, CoD MW2, DMC 3, DMC 4... the devs lost no sales over these games because I pirated them; I wouldn't have even bought them in the first place. I haven't even played the copies I downloaded.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Dec 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> That's true, I realize that, which is why the Homebrew community should collectively work towards attracting new members - show that coding isn't all that hard and with a little effort, you get to do something incredibly rewarding, even if you "code for the sake of it" like I do.
> 
> Besides, it's always nice to play ports of your favourite games from the olden days on the big screen, especially if you still happen to own them - it's not always a matter of piracy.
> 
> As for the IM apps, I think they're going to be quite popular on the WiiU since the tablet appears to be perfect for a virtual keyboard and... well, can be taken anywhere, which is close enough to a laptop.


The tablet would be perfect, were it not for the fact that you have to use the stylus to get reliable input which slows things down a lot.
Plus it lacks spelling corrections.



duffmmann said:


> Once the hack's full effect comes to fruition, and Nintendo releases their first Gamecube game as a VC title, I wonder how long before the entire GCN collection will be playable. (Hoping GCN emulation isn't like the N64 on Wii where only a handful of titles could be injected).


It likely will be, since an emulator only capable of playing the games they release is easier to make than a perfect emulator that can emulate every game (a lot of which won't be released on VC anyway, either due to licensing issues or something else)



plasma dragon007 said:


> Again. Not necessarily so if the item in question would not have been purchased in the first place.


That's what he said


----------



## Dr Eggman (Dec 20, 2012)

Can anyone say N64 and GameCube games on that sweet game pad.....





On the toilet?  lol. But seriously if true there goes my money.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Thing I wonder is, if there wasn't a way to pirate who knows what you'd be willing to buy? If you downloaded the games if obviously got your attention enough for you to play it. Anyone can point and say I wouldn't buy X but I pirated. No one truly knows what we'd do if piracy never existed. Unless you're ProtoKun7. So I think of it in a middle area, but I lean more towards the lost sale portion until someone brings me proof of their alternate self not ever buying a game they pirated because piracy didn't existed.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> Thing I wonder is, if there wasn't a way to pirate who knows what you'd be willing to buy? If you downloaded the games if obviously got your attention enough for you to play it. Anyone can point and say I wouldn't buy X but I pirated. No one truly knows what we'd do if piracy never existed. Unless you're ProtoKun7. So I think of it in a middle area, but I lean more towards the lost sale portion until someone brings me proof of their alternate self not ever buying a game they pirated because piracy didn't existed.


 
I can't buy that which I can not afford.  When I pirated that Need for Speed MW game, as an example, I had no money.  If I can't buy something, the developer doesn't have the sale in the first place, period.

The circumstances are a little different now, as I have a job, so I can buy games, but I still can't *afford* to buy them.  The difference being before I literally had *no* money.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

GameGeek said:


> How is that bullshit? If you pirate a game that you would otherwise have bought, you've costed its makers a sale.


And if I go over to a friend's house to watch his DVD instead of buying my own, I've cost the makers a sale since two people got to experience the movie while only the first person paid.  Wait no.

As plasma said, something can't be "lost" *if it never existed to begin with*.  That's why piracy goes to civil court, not criminal court.  The act of pirating does not cause monetary loss.  I mean, if downloading a song DOES subtract money out of some company's bank account, I'm sure like to know how the fuck that works. XD


----------



## ferofax (Dec 20, 2012)

It's funny how people are throwing shit over piracy on a forum that's a known cesspool of "privateers", lol. I hope I didn't start it, heh.

Oh, and surprised ZombiU already has an ISO. I wonder how they validate that.

Anyways, I hope they keep the lid on piracy for a bit. A long good while. Let the console peak first. Give it a running start.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 20, 2012)

GameGeek said:


> How is that bullshit? If you pirate a game that you would otherwise have bought, you've costed its makers a sale.


 
Did you even read this http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...llegal-downloads-dont-equal-17000-lost-sales/

The perpetrator downloaded several thousand songs, each worth x amount, but he wasn't forced to pay for every single one of them. If that were the case, he'd own nearly 1,000,000 in damages. The files are not physical, they're digital, one download doesn't cost them one sale.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Then you save up. If piracy didn't exist. (And those who don't know how to pirate, are experiencing this.) Then you save up money to buy the game. I suppose we could call it losing a potential sale.

Piracy Exists->No money->Pirate
Piracy Exists->Money (Can't afford.)->Pirate

No Piracy->No money->No purchase, no piracy, or save up.
No Piracy->Money->Buy game.

Not a thing is taken in the world where piracy doesn't exist. You either have enough to get the game, don't get the game or save up to get the game. While in today's world you can pirate it either way. Piracy affects your decision of whether or not you'll buy a game. Therefore effecting the sale.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> I suppose we could call it losing a potential sale.


When my girlfriend refused to blow me because she watched porn instead I lost a potential blowjob.
Takin' porn compneez 2 court 4 my loss, brb.
</obviously kidding>


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> When my girlfriend refused to blow me because she watched porn instead I lost a potential blowjob.
> Takin' porn compneez 2 court 4 my loss, brb.
> </obviously kidding>


 
Why would you want to be blown on? Wind does that for free.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 20, 2012)

omega59 said:


> I love how this got posted after it was pasted on irc HAHA! OH YEAH before i forget check this out too.....
> 
> http://pastebin.com/PN66Nc3g
> 
> ZombiU.USA.WiiU-VIMTO <------  watch it hit news head lines now.


 
Is vimto a hacking team or something never heard of them, it not on the interwebs yet, I wonder how big it is (for fun I guess 8GB).


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> Why would you want to be blown on? Wind does that for free.


On a more serious note, do you get what I'm saying?  Crying foul over a potentially-lost sale just opens up way too much crap.
That's why piracy goes to civil court for copyright infringement, instead of civil court for losses (because there are none).

P.S. US government finally admits most piracy estimates are bogus.
(Only interesting stuff is in the first half.)  Includes such things as anti-piracy groups referring to an FBI study _that never took place_, and more.  The article wasn't able to figure out where some of the numbers used even came from.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Dec 20, 2012)

lovewiibrew said:


> As I said I don't want piracy rampant on the Wii U just yet, though I do hope to see a good DS emulator come to the console at some point. TV as the top screen, gamepad as the bottom screen. How awesome that would be.


Agreed and I've been wanting this since the gamepad was announced. It's just the perfect way to emulate DS games, even better than it would be on Android tablets or the iPad (but no good emulators are yet out for those devices)


Devin said:


> Then you save up. If piracy didn't exist. (And those who don't know how to pirate, are experiencing this.) Then you save up money to buy the game. I suppose we could call it losing a potential sale.
> 
> Piracy Exists->No money->Pirate
> Piracy Exists->Money (Can't afford.)->Pirate
> ...


But in a lot of cases people wouldn't want to save up for that game anyway, or would never try it out and realize it was actually good, and in other cases people buy games only because they have pirated them, found out they were good and wanted to support the developer. So piracy goes both ways, though it is certain that a lot of piracy is for the simple purpose of avoiding to buy a game it is far from always being the case. No one can calculate exactly how high of a percentage of piracy is actually a lost sale though.

Who knows if they would get more sales if piracy didn't exist. The people pirating for the sake of it may be cancelled out by the people who can't afford the games, people who would never find out about a lot of games or people who simply buy games they like after pirating them.
The actual effect on sales may be neglible, we have no way to know unless someone in here can travel to alternate dimensions.


----------



## Maxternal (Dec 20, 2012)




----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Oh of course. I'm as much as a pirate as anyone on here. I extremely dislike when someone pulls out the "WiiU should not be hacked so early in it's lifetime" crying card. I see the logic behind what they're saying in conjunction with the loss of potential sales due to piracy making a console "fail", but it's not that accurate. In order to obtain something someone must lose something. Overall what I'm saying is I see where the people are coming from who pull out the crying card, but it's just not justified enough to be considered factual as they are throwing it out there to be.


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (Dec 20, 2012)

If the WiiU really does get hacked, Nintendo will definitely see more hardware sales. Everybody wins


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> In order to obtain something someone must lose something.


Right-click, Copy.
Right-click, Paste.
What have I lost?

Also inb4 "the free space the file copy took up" - I'd gladly take free furniture for a home despite the fact that I lose the volume of space it occupies once in.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Agreed and I've been wanting this since the gamepad was announced. It's just the perfect way to emulate DS games, even better than it would be on Android tablets or the iPad (but no good emulators are yet out for those devices)
> 
> But in a lot of cases people wouldn't want to save up for that game anyway, or would never try it out and realize it was actually good, and in other cases people buy games only because they have pirated them, found out they were good and wanted to support the developer. So piracy goes both ways, though it is certain that a lot of piracy is for the simple purpose of avoiding to buy a game it is far from always being the case. No one can calculate exactly how high of a percentage of piracy is actually a lost sale though.
> 
> ...


 
Of course there's a bunch of unknown factors to throw in there but the case is this. Majority of pirates aren't pirating to "try" or test out a game. Kudos to those who do, and buy the games afterwards but that's a small number. Like I said who would pay money for something they can get for free that works just as good as the paid one? My Vita for instance I was thinking about grabbing Ninja Gaiden for it. Didn't see a demo, didn't have a friend that had it, and gameplay online just isn't as good as playing it. What would I do it I could pirate Vita games? Pirate it, but since it doesn't exist on the Vita at this time I'm not going to buy it.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> Oh of course. I'm as much as a pirate as anyone on here. I extremely dislike when someone pulls out the "WiiU should not be hacked so early in it's lifetime" crying card. I see the logic behind what they're saying in conjunction with the loss of potential sales due to piracy making a console "fail", but it's not that accurate. In order to obtain something someone must lose something. Overall what I'm saying is I see where the people are coming from who pull out the crying card, but it's just not justified enough to be considered factual as they are throwing it out there to be.


Honestly I want the Wii U to be hacked simply so I can backup my physical games and keep them all on a HDD.
I went with physical copies so the games can be brought to play on other Wii U's, but for personal usage I vastly prefer the convenience of having them all on a single USB HDD. And with a Wii U hack I would get the best of both worlds.
Not saying I wouldn't pirate, I would. But there are many legitimate reasons for USB loading and something like what Devolution does would actually be rather nice on the Wii U.



Devin said:


> Of course there's a bunch of unknown factors to throw in there but the case is this. Majority of pirates aren't pirating to "try" or test out a game. Kudos to those who do, and buy the games afterwards but that's a small number. Like I said who would pay money for something they can get for free that works just as good as the paid one? My Vita for instance I was thinking about grabbing Ninja Gaiden for it. Didn't see a demo, didn't have a friend that had it, and gameplay online just isn't as good as playing it. What would I do it I could pirate Vita games? Pirate it, but since it doesn't exist on the Vita at this time I'm not going to buy it.


It's not those that only want to try a game, but those that discover games they otherwise wouldn't have and those that couldn't afford them in the first place. We don't know how big of a percentage this is and it may be significant.
I'm not talking about trying out a game you kind of want but aren't sure whether to get. I'm talking about discovering a game you might otherwise never have known existed, or be interested in at all. Such as when I discovered the Ace Attorney series (recommended to me by a friend), it didn't sound very interesting, and I would never have bothered with it but thanks to the convenience of piracy I saw no reason to not give it a whirl with all the praise he was giving it.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Right-click, Copy.
> Right-click, Paste.
> What have I lost?
> 
> Also inb4 "the free space the file copy took up" - I'd gladly take free furniture for a home despite the fact that I lose the volume of space it occupies once in.


 
Okay, okay. I could go onto say stolen furniture but that'd be pushing it to the limit. Just take it how you see it. In some instances that saying is correct, in others it's not a large loss like from what you said.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> Like I said who would pay money for something they can get for free that works just as good as the paid one?


Well I've got ~140 games on Steam (not counting half-life mods).

And on that note, outside of consoles you can drag and drop ROMs and ISOs too, Steam partially makes headway from being _better_ than pirated versions (outside of money).  You don't need to worry about finding a copy with seeds, you don't need to worry about cracked installers and manual file replacement and cracks not working, updates are automatic, etc...


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 20, 2012)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Honestly I want the Wii U to be hacked simply so I can backup my physical games and keep them all on a HDD.
> I went with physical copies so the games can be brought to play on other Wii U's, but for personal usage I vastly prefer the convenience of having them all on a single USB HDD.[...]


 
DEVELOPER LOSSES DEVELOPER LOSSES YOU DON'T NEED A BACKUP OF YOUR PHYSICAL COPY TO USE THE ORIGINAL ONE ON OTHER WIIS UNLESS YOU PLAN ON SHARING IT PIRACY



Rydian said:


> Well I've got ~140 games on Steam (not counting half-life mods).
> 
> And on that note, outside of consoles you can drag and drop ROMs and ISOs too, Steam partially makes headway from being _better_ than pirated versions (outside of money). You don't need to worry about finding a copy with seeds, you don't need to worry about cracked installers and manual file replacement and cracks not working, updates are automatic, etc...


Which is exactly the reason I've gone almost 100% legit on PC.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> Okay, okay. I could go onto say stolen furniture but that'd be pushing it to the limit. Just take it how you see it. In some instances that saying is correct, in others it's not a large loss like from what you said.


When furniture is stolen, the original is removed from it's place and the ownership of the person who had it, which is bad.  That's why theft is a criminal offense.

When I download a copy of a ROM from the internet, _jack shit_ is done to the original.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Honestly I want the Wii U to be hacked simply so I can backup my physical games and keep them all on a HDD.
> I went with physical copies so the games can be brought to play on other Wii U's, but for personal usage I vastly prefer the convenience of having them all on a single USB HDD. And with a Wii U hack I would get the best of both worlds.
> Not saying I wouldn't pirate, I would. But there are many legitimate reasons for USB loading and something like what Devolution does would actually be rather nice on the Wii U.


 
Oh yes, implement a system like Devolution and then that would be a total justified want for the WiiU to be hacked. However a system like that probably won't be implemented. And to those who use their systems like that, again kudos. But I would just pirate the games, going to the store, buying a game to come home and rip it so I won't have to put the disc in the disc drive would be a nice feature but so is just laying down on my bed while a WiiU ISO is downloaded. Saves me a trip to the store, wait time, and so on.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> When furniture is stolen, the original is removed from it's place and the ownership of the person who had it, which is bad. That's why theft is a criminal offense.
> 
> When I download a copy of a ROM from the internet, _jack shit_ is done to the original.


 
^This, times one thousand. The original sources exists, people just make a copy of it.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Well I've got ~140 games on Steam (not counting half-life mods).
> 
> And on that note, outside of consoles you can drag and drop ROMs and ISOs too, Steam partially makes headway from being _better_ than pirated versions (outside of money). You don't need to worry about finding a copy with seeds, you don't need to worry about cracked installers and manual file replacement and cracks not working, updates are automatic, etc...


 
In certain circumstances yes, but I consider the PC to really be a different ballpark all together. It's so open it leaves room for I want to say improvements, and other variables. While consoles are more limited in terms of updates, cracks, and so on. Really the only thing that you have to worry about is finding a download with seeders. But would you rather pay $20 to get a direct download from Microsoft on the 360 or would you rather take an extra hour or two to get it for free. (Again another variable is internet speed. If I have a great one I'll pirate something, if it's terrible internet and takes me days to download something I'll go buy a disc or something.) The main topic I thought was consoles, not text or PCs or furniture.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> When furniture is stolen, the original is removed from it's place and the ownership of the person who had it, which is bad. That's why theft is a criminal offense.
> 
> When I download a copy of a ROM from the internet, _jack shit_ is done to the original.


 
I've been thinking quite a bit trying to put it in other words but. You're right on that end. No one really sells text though. I mean if you copy paste something copyrighted you'd be plagiarizing their work.


----------



## Vappy (Dec 20, 2012)

[While I think that whether or not a pirated copy necessarily equates to a lost potential sale, I think the more drastic impact is that, if a console is able to be pirated for, then third party publishers are going to be more wary about putting games on the console than they would otherwise.]

Glad to see fail0verflow are still at the top of their game  After the debacle with geohot and Sony, I would've thought they'd be less up-front about hacking consoles. Should certainly be interesting to see what comes of this, especially after the rumor mill stops turning and we get some facts about it.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Dec 20, 2012)

Oh GBAtemp, we can't have a single thread about hacking without it resulting into some useless discussion about the merits of piracy that we've had hundreds of times before.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 20, 2012)

Vappy said:


> [While I think that whether or not a pirated copy necessarily equates to a lost potential sale, I think the more drastic impact is that, if a console is able to be pirated for, then third party publishers are going to be more wary about putting games on the console than they would otherwise.]
> 
> Glad to see fail0verflow are still at the top of their game  After the debacle with geohot and Sony, I would've thought they'd be less up-front about hacking consoles. Should certainly be interesting to see what comes of this, especially after the rumor mill stops turning and we get some facts about it.


 
Right, considering you can pirate for every console to date except the Vita, 3DS, and WiiU. Those devs for the Wii, PS3, 360, PC... really were wary it seems.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> I've been thinking quite a bit trying to put it in other words but. You're right on that end. No one really sells text though. I mean if you copy paste something copyrighted you'd be plagiarizing their work.


I should have specified, I meant files in general.  I can copy the word document that contains last week's coursework as easily as I can copy "The Hobbit.MP4".



soulx said:


> that we've had hundreds of times before.


Tends to start with the same people that don't understand the concepts involved too.


----------



## Devin (Dec 20, 2012)

soulx said:


> *insert gif here*
> 
> Oh GBAtemp, we can't have a single thread about hacking without it resulting into some useless discussion about the merits of piracy that we've had hundreds of times before.


 
;O; Seems we can't have a thread where people start their posts off with a gif, and then do a lame yet true generalization of GBAtemp we've heard countless times yet people still act surprised. We probably have about three of your posts by other members somewhere in these threads.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Dec 20, 2012)

Devin said:


> ;O; Seems we can't have a thread where people start their posts off with a gif, and then do a lame yet true generalization of GBAtemp we've heard countless times yet people still act surprised. We probably have about three of your posts by other members somewhere in these threads.









That's my specialty.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 20, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> I downloaded a game twice. I would not have bought it twice yet alone once.
> 
> End proof


This isn't proof at all.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 20, 2012)

Pondering about whether or not people would buy more video games if piracy didn't exist is pretty pointless since _piracy existed before video games and your assumptions about its influence on video games are just that - assumptions. People copied various media for centuries, it's not a new invention that plagues us all of a sudden._

Just throwing that thought here.


----------



## Qtis (Dec 20, 2012)

Although this is going a bit off topic, but I'll throw it out still: What about legacy titles and piracy on them? Can you see new Gamecube games being sold? If you can, how many of the entire library and how many are indeed new versus second hand?


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 20, 2012)

fail0verflow  failed to hack the DSi and 3DS. You expect them to hack the WiiU?


----------



## SifJar (Dec 20, 2012)

Qtis said:


> Although this is going a bit off topic, but I'll throw it out still: What about legacy titles and piracy on them? Can you see new Gamecube games being sold? If you can, how many of the entire library and how many are indeed new versus second hand?


It doesn't matter if it's still being sold or not; you still have no right to own it if you have not purchased it (assuming you didn't obtain it through some promotion or competition etc.). If it can't be purchased any more, that's too bad; you've missed your chance.

Whether it's new or second hand is also irrelevant; a second hand sale passes the right to own whatever is being sold from the first owner to the second.



WiiUBricker said:


> fail0verflow failed to hack the DSi and 3DS. You expect them to hack the WiiU?


 
"failed" implies that they tried. I have seen no evidence of such.


----------



## Qtis (Dec 20, 2012)

WiiUBricker said:


> fail0verflow failed to hack the DSi and 3DS. You expect them to hack the WiiU?


Different devices, different internals. Why not?

fail0ver did manage to hack the PS3 back in the days when no one had managed to get to that point. DSi hacking didn't have that much of merit for usefulness, thus a lack of interest. The 3DS is another thing, but we will see.


----------



## Qtis (Dec 20, 2012)

SifJar said:


> It doesn't matter if it's still being sold or not; you still have no right to own it if you have not purchased it (assuming you didn't obtain it through some promotion or competition etc.). If it can't be purchased any more, that's too bad; you've missed your chance.
> 
> Whether it's new or second hand is also irrelevant; a second hand sale passes the right to own whatever is being sold from the first owner to the second.


 
Except always it's not possible to transfer licenses automatically IIRC. Second hand trading is just as bad or even worse for the devs since they actually do lose a real sale there. Stores like Gamestop take the profit (with quite a big margin).


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 20, 2012)

Qtis said:


> fail0ver did manage to hack the PS3 back in the days when no one had managed to get to that point.


 Yeah, because nobody attempted it besides GeoHot because there was no point in hacking it when you already could run your own code with PS3 Linux. Only after Sony removed Linux there were serious attempts of hacking it which resulted in fail0verflow figuring out, that the security of the PS3 was very bad. So don't be fooled so easily by this.


----------



## Qtis (Dec 20, 2012)

WiiUBricker said:


> Yeah, because nobody attempted it besides GeoHot because there was no point in hacking it when you could run your own code with PS3 Linux. Only after Sony removed Linux there were serious attempts of hacking it which resulted in fail0verflow figuring out, that the security of the PS3 was very bad.


The PS3 Linux was craptastically limited. Linux was nice and all, but it wasn't as capable as the full hack. There were entire hardware features unavailable due to the nature of PS3 Linux


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 20, 2012)

Qtis said:


> The PS3 Linux was craptastically limited. Linux was nice and all, but it wasn't as capable as the full hack. There were entire hardware features unavailable due to the nature of PS3 Linux


Doesn't matter, hackers aren't interested in more than just running their own code.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Dec 20, 2012)

Playstation 3? What are you doing here? This is a Wii U thread. Shoo PS3! Shoo! Get outta here!

Oh, where were we?


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Playstation 3? What are you doing here? This is a Wii U thread. Shoo PS3! Shoo! Get outta here!
> 
> Oh, where were we?


Not funny at all. You got weak


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Dec 20, 2012)

WiiUBricker said:


> Not funny at all. You got weak


 
It wasn't meant to be funny, just that we should stop talking about the PS3 in a Wii U thread.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Dec 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It wasn't meant to be funny, just that we should stop talking about the PS3 in a Wii U thread.


Actually it's a user submitted news regarding the WiiU & fail0verflow. The PS3 is related to fail0verflow, hence why PS3 talk is perfectly fine here as long it only relates to fail0verflow hacking it.


----------



## Yoshimashin (Dec 20, 2012)

Children! Please...

I don't have much faith in Nintendo security so if they did manage to hack it I wouldn't be shocked in the least.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 20, 2012)

SifJar said:


> It doesn't matter if it's still being sold or not; you still have no right to own it if you have not purchased it (assuming you didn't obtain it through some promotion or competition etc.). If it can't be purchased any more, that's too bad; you've missed your chance.
> 
> Whether it's new or second hand is also irrelevant; a second hand sale passes the right to own whatever is being sold from the first owner to the second.


 
And yet Nintendo still doesn't get any profit from second-hand sales. Pretty sure some companies out there lump second-hand sales in the same pile as piracy.


----------



## ComeTurismO (Dec 20, 2012)

Next thing you know, when it is  fully hacked, and many people have a hacked Wii U:

Reggie: I.. Resign.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 20, 2012)

If I was going to pirate games at all, I'd much rather do to with Gamecube games. The Wii U was just released, I'd rather have Nintendo get revenue from their newer games.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Dec 20, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> And yet Nintendo still doesn't get any profit from second-hand sales. Pretty sure some companies out there lump second-hand sales in the same pile as piracy.


 
A lot of them consider second hand sales worse than piracy since it's A) easier to do, B) more widely available, and C) legal.


----------



## xen20 (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, that was quick. Was that a one month deal? Not interested in the Wii U yet, but perhaps this opens more features that could make me interested in such. And a console thats fully open to you to exploit is always nice, of course.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Dec 20, 2012)

Very excited about this, the possibilities are staggering. Never would have expected it to be this quick, but I'm not going to complain.

As for the piracy thing, its a price vs convience thing for me. As examples, I could download everything on netflix, but its cheap and easy. If there's a blu ray for 4-5$ that I want that isn't bare bones Ill probably buy it instead of getting the mkv.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 21, 2012)

omega59 said:


> I love how this got posted after it was pasted on irc HAHA! OH YEAH before i forget check this out too.....
> 
> http://pastebin.com/PN66Nc3g
> 
> ZombiU.USA.WiiU-VIMTO <------  watch it hit news head lines now.


 
Was the rip fake in the end? I have heard no one say anything about it, elsewhere.


----------



## air2004 (Dec 21, 2012)

Piracy , Piracy , Piracy.......What was the name of this thread again ???


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 21, 2012)

air2004 said:


> Piracy , Piracy , Piracy.......What was the name of this thread again ???


I believe it was "Hacking a console automatically makes you a dirty pirate"


----------



## Rydian (Dec 21, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> A lot of them consider second hand sales worse than piracy since it's A) easier to do, B) more widely available, and C) legal.


D) Money actually trades hands, so their wants are a little more justified as they want a piece of money that's being traded (opposed to wanting a cut of a _non-existent_ monetary deal).


----------



## air2004 (Dec 21, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> I believe it was "Hacking a console automatically makes you a dirty pirate"


 Damn , I thought I was in the wrong thread  Can you point me to the Wii U hacked ? thread please


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 21, 2012)

air2004 said:


> Damn , I thought I was in the wrong thread  Can you point me to the Wii U hacked ? thread please


What you're looking for is the "Modifying your console for legitimate purposes still makes you a pirate according to Nintendo" thread.


----------



## air2004 (Dec 21, 2012)

Maybe its time for a new thread , we can call it " If you modify, they will Pirate "
On serious note , any more info from FOF on what this thing is that they have ? I don't use twitter so I will be getting my info from you all.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Dec 21, 2012)

chaossaturn said:


> Was the rip fake in the end? I have heard no one say anything about it, elsewhere.




I'm leaning towards fake, if it was real it should be everywhere by now. Yet it shows up nowhere at all. Not even as one of those annoyning go here for the password Trojan ones.


----------



## air2004 (Dec 21, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> I'm leaning towards fake, if it was real it should be everywhere by now. Yet it shows up nowhere at all. Not even as one of those annoyning go here for the password Trojan ones.


I did a did a look for the file and couldn't find it either. But then again it wouldn't be the first time I ran into this problem , by that I mean , I seen the .nfo but took me a couple days to find the file for it.
I say wait till after tomorrow , when the world ends the file will be up


----------



## rizzod (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm actually looking forward to emulators working on the tablet screen... that would be awesome.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 21, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> I'm leaning towards fake, if it was real it should be everywhere by now. Yet it shows up nowhere at all. Not even as one of those annoyning go here for the password Trojan ones.


Maybe you can't find it because... gasp, it hasn't been released?

Like, this pic of my ex's tits I took (I'm a guy, I have a camera, and they were some damn nice tits) certainly exists on my harddrive, but you can google it all you want and you'll never find it because it's not on the internet.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Dec 21, 2012)

^That was sort of my point, yeah.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 22, 2012)

No, your point was that you can't find it online, so it's fake.

My point was that it's entirely possible to have something that exists, and NOT put it on the internet.


----------



## chyyran (Dec 22, 2012)

Wow, I was just talking to my bro about when the WiiU was going to get hacked today. 2013 will be a very interesting year.. Well, time to get a WiiU soon I guess.

But, this early in, I'm afraid this may scare away third parties. Ignoring whether piracy actually affects sales or not, many developers will lean towards the "piracy = lost sale", some maybe even the "hack = piracy" mindset. See, what matters here is not whether piracy will affect sales or not, but whether 3rd parties will make games for it, regardless of whether it's hacked or not. Of course, this is only one factor of many, perhaps even a small factor, that will affect the success of the WiiU, but a factor nonetheless.


Anyways, 3DS, WiiU, now we just need a Vita-mode exploit.


----------



## wohdin (Dec 22, 2012)

While I would be amazed if the Wii U has already been breached, FO's image is rather intriguing. If it doesn't mean that they already have it hacked (which I do find hard to believe), I'm going to interpret it as expressing intent to hack the machine, and possibly even suggesting that they already have made progress, which wouldn't surprise me as much. Finding exploits typically isn't the hard part - the HARD part is usually figuring out what do _do_ with them.

Also, I hate titles like this. An _exploit_ is _*not*_ a _hack,_ but that's what these "[ConsoleName] Hacked?" titles always seem to imply - people seem to always lose their shit at images like these, and it's irritating. Just because there's an exploit of some sort out there _does not_ mean that the console is "hacked" - it simply means that there is some kind of exploit out there. It takes a lot of time and effort in development and trial and error to actually make a "hack" _through_ that exploit - and even MORE time and effort to put that "hack" in the end-user's hands to allow for executing homebrew code through whatever method.


----------



## Rydian (Dec 22, 2012)

From what I understand, displaying an image on the gamepad like that is not normally possible, meaning they're running some sort of custom code to load and display it.

A hack doesn't have to be user-friendly for it to be a hack.  Modchips certainly allow unsigned code to run on a machine, but you wouldn't hand one to a 12 year old like you would a flash cart, and say "go put this in".


----------



## noob killer (Dec 22, 2012)

so if its hacked is the hack released?


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 22, 2012)

Once there's a usable USB loader, I'll wait till it's safe to use a hard drive without getting format prompt screens.


----------



## T3GZdev (Dec 22, 2012)

I think I may have found some sort of source codes for wii u?


----------



## KazoWAR (Dec 22, 2012)

ah yes, please explain


----------



## T3GZdev (Dec 22, 2012)

well I was on the wii u page a while back, & saw something about open source stuff.


----------



## Heran Bago (Dec 22, 2012)

HAX0RS ON T3H J00r WII YOU!?!?!?!?

You see what I did? I made a more relevant post than piracy discussion or explanations of how it could be fake. Have fun running in circles until 29C3, thread.


----------



## person66 (Dec 22, 2012)

t377y000 said:


> well i was on the wii u page a while back, & well i found this.
> open source software for wii u it says?
> http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/support/oss/index.html


That is just software that is already open source that nintendo used in the wii u (it looks like it is for the web browser). Nintendo is required by the license of that software to distribute the source code for it. This is not the source code for the entire Wii u, just the source code for whatever open source software they used in it (in this case, the browser). So, in short, this is useless.


----------



## T3GZdev (Dec 22, 2012)

person66 said:


> That is just software that is already open source that nintendo used in the wii u (it looks like it is for the web browser). Nintendo is required by the license of that software to distribute the source code for it. This is not the source code for the entire Wii u, just the source code for whatever open source software they used in it (in this case, the browser). So, in short, this is useless.


hmm I wouldn't say totally useless, I downloaded it & I'm looking through it, it seems to have lots of commands for both gamepad, wiimote & wii uhardware.


----------



## SifJar (Dec 22, 2012)

t377y000 said:


> hmm I wouldn't say totally useless, I downloaded it & I'm looking through it, it seems to have lots of commands for both gamepad, wiimote & wii uhardware.


No, it's totally useless. You can't compile it and replace the built in software with your own version, and the browser will be heavily sandboxed, so it's unlikely that exploiting any bugs there would even be particularly useful, so looking for bugs in the code isn't much good either.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2012)

Qtis said:


> Except always it's not possible to transfer licenses automatically IIRC. Second hand trading is just as bad or even worse for the devs since they actually do lose a real sale there. Stores like Gamestop take the profit (with quite a big margin).


In what sense? If you mean in the theoretical sense of "in the realm of fantasy, if Person #1 buys a game from Person #2 via any form of a second-hand sale, he's not buying a brand-new copy, thus the developer doesn't get a cut" then yes, that is correct.

_Practically_ though, the game is _transferred_ from one person to another - the _factual amount of all users of a given piece of software does not change_ - there is no new _"sale"_ taking place here, merely a change in ownership, so a "cut" for the developers would be unjustified. As much as some publishers don't like to see it that way, we live in a wonderful world where we can trade our possessions and if Person #1 doesn't feel like using a given item, he or she can sell it to whoever he or she wants without repercussions. The publishers already often take an extra buck for a Network Pass if the game has an online mode based on those, which by the way is _entirely unjustified_ in my opinion, simply because the "online" portion of a given game is just as much an integral part of it as any other, so going any further from here is ridiculous.


----------



## FAST6191 (Dec 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> In what sense? If you mean in the theoretical sense of "in the realm of fantasy, if Person #1 buys a game from Person #2 via any form of a second-hand sale, he's not buying a brand-new copy, thus the developer doesn't get a cut" then yes, that is correct.
> 
> _Practically_ though, the game is _transferred_ from one person to another - the _factual amount of all users of a given piece of software does not change_ - there is no new _"sale"_ taking place here, merely a change in ownership, so a "cut" for the developers would be unjustified. As much as some publishers don't like to see it that way, we live in a wonderful world where we can trade our possessions and if Person #1 doesn't feel like using a given item, he or she can sell it to whoever he or she wants without repercussions. The publishers already often take an extra buck for a Network Pass if the game has an online mode based on those, which by the way is _entirely unjustified_ in my opinion, simply because the "online" portion of a given game is just as much an integral part of it as any other, so going any further from here is ridiculous.



Assuming devs/publishers pay on a bandwidth/processing required model and the average player is assumed (via previous example- if nothing else server lifetimes would probably bear that out) to have say 300 hours of playtime before giving up and then effects a transfer it could trouble sums based upon that. Of course given that online communities (albeit ones with nominal long term communication options such as those seen by the average game) are carefully cultivated and active users of various stripes are almost always a positive.

That is just me being a bastard though and your logic mirrors my own and I would probably say "them's the breaks" to anybody costing things like that.


----------



## Smuff (Dec 22, 2012)

Still don't want one


----------



## SifJar (Dec 22, 2012)

Smuff said:


> Still don't want one


Thanks for letting us all know.


----------



## Smuff (Dec 22, 2012)

SifJar said:


> Thanks for letting us all know.


No problem.
Just to clarify a few other points, I also don't want an iPhone, iPad of any description or a PS3.
I would however love a coffee right about now - thanks.


----------



## air2004 (Dec 22, 2012)

And I would like for you to stay on topic - thanks


----------



## Chaossaturn (Dec 27, 2012)

air2004 said:


> I did a did a look for the file and couldn't find it either. But then again it wouldn't be the first time I ran into this problem , by that I mean , I seen the .nfo but took me a couple days to find the file for it.
> I say wait till after tomorrow , when the world ends the file will be up


 
Look's like it must be fake or just not release to the public (Zombie U rip by Vimto).


----------



## naxil (May 7, 2013)

http://fail0verflow.com/blog/2013/espresso.html


----------



## overlord00 (May 7, 2013)

naxil said:


> http://fail0verflow.com/blog/2013/espresso.html


Where'd the link come from? I can't find it directly from the site. weird.


----------



## chartube12 (May 7, 2013)

He's been such an ass lately to the temp, I decided to save the wii-u article about altering hbc as a text file on my pc. Never know if he decides to "fnck it" and deletes everything from public view.



overlord00 said:


> Where'd the link come from? I can't find it directly from the site. weird.


Front page, click blog. The link is under read more under the post on the right.


----------



## overlord00 (May 7, 2013)

chartube12 said:


> Front page, click blog. The link is under read more under the post on the right.


turns out it was taking me to [http://fail0verflow.com/blog/index.html] which for some reason is not updated for me. It's a nice read actually.


----------



## Deleted member 473940 (May 7, 2013)

Whats going on?


----------



## chartube12 (May 7, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> Whats going on?


 
Rather than make a proper program platform for Wii-U homebrew, *marcan* has posted the information to activate the wii-u's ram and such in vwii mode threw altering the HBC.

However it is all in tech talk. He hasn't provided any programs. I'm not a programmer. If someone or group made the necessary changes to the HBC, I'd reconsider buying a Wii-u. I'm all for better homebrew.


----------



## SifJar (May 7, 2013)

chartube12 said:


> Rather than make a proper program platform for Wii-U homebrew, *marcan* has posted the information to activate the wii-u's ram and such in vwii mode threw altering the HBC.
> 
> However it is all in tech talk. He hasn't provided any programs. I'm not a programmer. If someone or group made the necessary changes to the HBC, I'd reconsider buying a Wii-u. I'm all for better homebrew.


Not through modifying HBC. Through writing your own software which enables the faster CPU (I saw no mention of RAM in my skim read). It's not a case of "modify HBC and all apps will magically use the extra stuff". It's a case of having some code at the start of *your* app which enables the extra cores, and then *your* app can use them. But not with libogc (at least, not properly), which is the standard homebrew development library for Wii (and therefore, vWii).


----------



## Slimmmmmm (May 7, 2013)

hmmm If a WiiU game pad can be used and libraries come to life this could be great, but maybe this is still impossible, I have no idea.

 < closest pic I could find


----------



## the_randomizer (May 7, 2013)

Slimmmmmm said:


> hmmm If a WiiU game pad can be used and libraries come to life this could be great, but maybe this is still impossible, I have no idea.
> 
> < closest pic I could find


 
Hard to say at this point, but there is a glimmer of hope nonetheless.


----------

