# Blizzard bans Hearthstone champion and strips his income for offending a prison.



## Deleted User (Oct 9, 2019)

Every voice matters, unless it's against China.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 9, 2019)

I believe the NBA and South Park had similar issues as well this week, didnt it?


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## DBlaze (Oct 9, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> I believe the NBA and South Park had issues regarding similar issues as well this week, didnt it?


Yes, but one bended to their will and the other made an ironic apology, you can probably guess which did what


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## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 9, 2019)

good on southpark .
I am guessing the NBA has money at stake here and they were more umm "cooperative" i would assume?
As for Blizzard, looking up on it, it does look like they got quite the bit of backlash. Hopefully they will reverse their decision.


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## Deleted User (Oct 9, 2019)

Blitzchung quit after years of dedicating himself to the game.
He's being offered the amount of his prize money and a tournament spot by another TCG.

He gets good PR and another career opportunity while Blizzard and China get bad PR and no doubt blame it on the dissenting foreign anarchists who pay them for stuff.


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## Viri (Oct 9, 2019)

Here is how South Park responded.


Spoiler



https://twitter.com/SouthPark/status/1181273539799736320


Blizzard deserves every bit of backlash that they receive for bending the knee and kowtowing to China. I feel pretty bad for the people living in Hong Kong, and sadly, I don't have a lot of faith that it's going to end very well for them.



Spoiler











That's a pretty interesting cosplay rule...


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## notimp (Oct 9, 2019)

This discussion is kind of silly.

- Corporations arent moral.
- If corporations tell you they are moral, they are lying.
- The corporate social responsibility of a company is a fancy term for PR.
- When Laurence Douglas Fink tells decision makers, that his investment firm will now value social impact of a company more - he does that to entice moving over certain societal functions into non independent action rooms.

- When you see your fake entertainment casters working for corporate or adbucks ducking away under the anticipated repercussions for their jobs. Yes, thats all that is.

- If you cant differentiate between a market/pr-racket being run by corportations to create 'perceived importance' of a f*cking game, and for example independent 'sports journalism' (whatever that is  ). You have a problem.

- ALL of what an influencer does - for living - is marketing (market making), and you LOVE them for it, because they got special access, or trinkets, or neat parties to go to and thats so cool.

- Which brings us back to point one. Corporations arent moral.
--

If you are a youtuber that protests, that in Blizzards community rules it states, that they alone are able to decide on who gets banned, without an impartial ruleset, or 'just' laws - please wear your glasses backwards from today on, because you are so dumb, it hurts. As a fan you are not participating in 'societal systems' here - you are within the designed entertainment experiences of a company.

Same goes for this forum - partly. So when a moderator closes threads in here stating 'too much flaming and conflict potential' he doesnt do it to benefit society at large. He does it, because it benefits advertisers, if people dont ask questions that are deemed too problematic for the economic development of said community.

Thats why you don't put bright people in those roles, but rather the ones with power fetishes, and an unfaltering believe in their inherent correctness.. 

(I'm agitating here..  The other word for it would be trolling - and as we all know, by now - trolling is something exceptionally bad, because it messes with peoples perceptions in a way people that run a busines dont like.)
.

All your 'Major Nelsons' all your 'Geoff Keighleys' all your Nintendo Directs, guess what they are. 

Thats something basic and yet fundamental - you ought to have understood at least once.

Also yes - taking your business away from those companies is the way to react to that structurally. But then the company already thought about that, and has understood that not following chinese political doctrine, might cost them more in the end.

Nobody in business fears an internet shitstorm anymore. Those get managed away nowadays.

Look - here is a free DLC hat. It limited. Enjoy.


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## Dax_Fame (Oct 9, 2019)

Woof, What a PR nightmare! 

Don't worry, Diablo Immortal is on the way to save the day


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## notimp (Oct 9, 2019)

I predict in three months its all but forgotten.

The Schadenfreude doesnt do much.


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## Viri (Oct 9, 2019)

Dax_Fame said:


> Woof, What a PR nightmare!
> 
> Don't worry, Diablo Immortal is on the way to save the day


Don't worry, they'll make 2 characters in OW gay this time. Oof, but this is a pretty bad time for them, so they might have to bring out the big guns. One of the OW characters is gonna come out as trans!


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## Dax_Fame (Oct 9, 2019)

Viri said:


> Don't worry, they'll make 2 characters in OW gay this time. Oof, but this is a pretty bad time for them, so they might have to bring out the big guns. One of the OW characters is gonna come out as trans!


They're going to have to go bigger than that..

"Today we are launching a brand new server in World of Warcraft called Hong Kong. It will be restricted to citizens of Hong Kong and they will not be charged, so they have a place to be free... So please leave China alone. K, thanks."


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## notimp (Oct 9, 2019)

Here is the concept of Cost-Use-Billing.

In economics, contracts generally arent binding (as in sacrosanct).

Example.

If I promise you to sell you a medicament for 1000 USD, that you need, because you are deadly ill. And then someone else promises me to give me 10.000 USD for that medicament, I can do the following.

I'll not fulfill my contract with you. Pay 2000 USD in damages to you. And then make 7000 USD more in profits over honoring the deal.

That is business basics. So whatever corporations promise you to do 'on your behalf' the value of that promise is not more than that.

Why is it set up this way?

Because if you maximize gain, in old economic thinking, you lower the price of the good to be able to spread it more, eventually, making it more affordable for everyone - hence benefiting everyone. (Also with job creation and so on and so forth.)

So that you gain that much more on returns isnt even looked at, as long as you create a bigger pie for everyone in the process.

(Meaning, if someone offers you 10.000 for the medicament, you will scale up production that much faster in that environment, ultimately benefiting everyone faster (because ultimately you will want to come down in price to reach more people).)

China is bigger than Hongkong. End of discussion.

Corporations dont deal in concepts like freedom of speech, or democracy (as to how it is related to an individual). Thats like barking to a parrot. Different languages.

The services they offer, you have no legal repercussions over. In digital business models you make cents on a user per year. If you are good, maybe 40 bucks. On your average streamer that has invested 4 years of his life into becoming a f*cking posterboy, they may get 10.000 USD out of a year. Of which you maybe will pay 3.000 USD to them directly, and have them make the rest to stock up to living wages on the TWITCH streets. 

What a dream, for every young and aspiring youtuber... 

And then you have your 'Jim Sterling' youtubers that make 20.000 videos about 'corporations arent moral'. Well. No sh*t, Sherlock.

Any system where you have no separation of power, no 'judge' so to speak, is what? (Disney selling you an experience of a fairground fun ride, you have no rights in or over, whatsoever. In digital economies in general, you sign your rights away to be allowed to participate. Because you are worth so little to the companies, that if even an insignificant amount of people would sue them in court - legal expenses would clean out all profits. Thats why states made it legal, that in those configurations you have no rights. Its all just a funride. If you think that its more than that - than you believed in some artificial image.

A statue of an ork in front of the blizzard building for example.)


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## Deleted User (Oct 9, 2019)

Viri said:


> Don't worry, they'll make 2 characters in OW gay this time. Oof, but this is a pretty bad time for them, so they might have to bring out the big guns. One of the OW characters is gonna come out as trans!


They already said once that a character is trans but they won't say who.
TBH, that's probably some of the most sensitive representation of trans people in video games because trans people don't like being outed.


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## Godofcheese (Oct 9, 2019)

Stand Hong, With Kong


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## notimp (Oct 9, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> hey already said once that a character is trans but they won't say who.
> TBH, that's probably some of the most sensitive representation of trans people in video games because trans people don't like being outed.


Its probably also the position the majority of people can agree to, because that kind of promise is an empty one. That makes people think, that you have done something, without actually having done something.

You have that part of your audience that cares believe in a myth. And the other part of your audience, not even notice it.

So that is the famed RESULTware the SJW movement brings in? 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Godofcheese said:


> Stand Hong, With Kong


Upvote, because I believe, that that religious principle gives people hope. Upvote, because I think it benefits western economies, if the chinese have that problem to deal with for a bit longer. (Which eventually will even benefit them - once the boundries are 'argued out'. If they dont have to 'scorch earth' on that one.)

But then again, if you are thinking, that this is a struggle about the importance of democracy -

the western values and believes systems are on a decline. Economically, militarily, in terms of influence spheres.

The entire developing world already works after chinese blueprints. In europe you have a movement that wants to romanticize economic decline...

No one is taking that (grandstanding western values) seriously anymore. And even if we did, there is no one in the world that will make China change their mind on how to 'reintegrate' Hong Kong.

It already was over, before it began. But, you can have some extra rights, and some interesting and more valuable elite structures, coming out of the struggle. Or you can perish.

Still you don't take away hope from people. 

Now take a guess, how much Blizzard is interested in all of this.. 

"But he did it because of nationalism, and democracy.." Barking to a parrot.


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## Robika (Oct 9, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> good on southpark .
> I am guessing the NBA has money at stake here and they were more umm "cooperative" i would assume?
> As for Blizzard, looking up on it, it does look like they got quite the bit of backlash. Hopefully they will reverse their decision.


Sadly tencent owns a part of shares in Activision Blizzard.


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## notimp (Oct 9, 2019)

Even without the shares. If your business model is peddling digital dependency, over manufactured culture models like 'esports', and your 'customers' have dependencies like 'i spent 4 years of my life to get better at the game you produced'.

What are you interested in more?

- Your future growth markets? (China)
- Stabilizing your current income structures, because of a decline in people with high moral standards - who cant separate those from 'the Disneyland they like to visit' (entertainment experience)

Think long and deep. 

Shares wise Tencent only holds 5% of the company I believe. (Someone else make sure I'm not reproducing BS here..  )

Now its the hour where PR can shine. Make 10 smoke screens about how socially responsible the company is in other fields.
Here - take this as a random example:


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## Deleted User (Oct 9, 2019)

Huawei trying to claim moral highground.


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 9, 2019)

this happens for the same reason neo nazis can't call censorship and freedom of speech when they're not allowed to make a propaganda speech on a popular cable program, because freedom of speech only protects you from government retaliation.
private entities can and will punish you accordingly if you go against contracts or their best interests.

that said, people are free to punish blizzard in return for their stance on china.
they decided to act like they did because they make millions in china, which is absolutely understandable from a business standpoint.
if that bothers you, you have to cost them millions in the us/eu then. cancel you WOW subscription, don't watch their feeds, don't buy their lootboxes etc.

you can whine on twitter and forums all day about how bad that seems and how bad it makes them look, but they're not going to give up chinese money for that.


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## Xzi (Oct 9, 2019)

Well this is one boycott I've unintentionally been a part of for quite some time now, it's been years since I opened the Battle.net launcher.  Blizzard has had a hard fall from grace since their most talented staff all left and they were bought out by Activision.  I can't even look forward to the WC3 remaster any more, knowing that they'll fuck it up somehow (probably in several ways).


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## Jayro (Oct 9, 2019)

Due to recent events related to the subject of this thread, I felt compelled and legally obligated to Photoshop this pictograph as a life-like and accurate depiction of Activision Blizzard, Inc.




It is now currently my Team Fortress 2 in-game spray.


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## Deleted User (Oct 9, 2019)

Jayro said:


> Due to recent events related to the subject of this thread, I felt compelled and legally obligated to Photoshop this pictograph as a life-like and accurate depiction of Activision Blizzard, Inc.
> 
> View attachment 181962
> 
> It is now currently my Team Fortress 2 in-game spray.



TFW Soy Sauce could be a great euphemism for Chinese Semen... Although I am fairly Certain that Blizzard ingests large dosages of Soy as it is, my point still stands.


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## billapong (Oct 9, 2019)

I can understand how realizing how favoring communism can lead to problems. This is why I question people against the Chinese tariffs. If you're against Blizzard favoring China and then are against Trump for trying to make China less of an influence in our own country then you have personal issues that are causing confliction within yourself. I agree that China goes way too far with many things, but they are communists. What do you expect? If we adopt socialism we're one step closer to becoming them. Blizzard shouldn't be favoring communism nor should any other USA citizen.


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## Xzi (Oct 9, 2019)

billapong said:


> I can understand how realizing how favoring communism can lead to problems. This is why I question people against the Chinese tariffs. If you're against Blizzard favoring China and then are against Trump for trying to make China less of an influence in our own country then you have personal issues that are causing confliction within yourself.


US citizens aren't buying fewer Chinese goods simply because there are tariffs on them, that's why they haven't been effective.  If conservatives are concerned about being hypocritical, they'll have to stop shopping at Wal-Mart, and I think hell will sooner freeze over before that happens.



billapong said:


> I agree that China goes way too far with many things, but they are communists. What do you expect? If we adopt socialism we're one step closer to becoming them. Blizzard shouldn't be favoring communism nor should any other USA citizen.


China's inequality is second only to the USA's.  Blizzard and other corporations are obligated to bow to the authoritarian Chinese government simply because China has the largest consumer base on Earth, which makes this a problem caused by over-zealous capitalism.

While I agree that communism as a system doesn't do enough to account for the human condition, historically it's never been given an honest chance to function as intended, least of all in China.  The government likes to hide behind the title of communism just so they can pretend they're different from Western civilizations in some meaningful way, but ultimately they're succumbing to capitalist oligarchy just as we are.  Just as we do, they've got haves and have-nots, with a virtually non-existent middle class.


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## FoxMcloud5655 (Oct 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> US citizens aren't buying fewer Chinese goods simply because there are tariffs on them, that's why they haven't been effective.  If conservatives are concerned about being hypocritical, they'll have to stop shopping at Wal-Mart, and I think hell will sooner freeze over before that happens.


Well, that's why I like to buy most of my goods from local sources.  Trying to find meat from a real slaughterhouse is tricky where I live, though, so I still haven't got that fleshed out.  In the meantime, Reasor's provides acceptable enough meat, provided you pay high-dollar for it.  Which I don't and I should


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## IncredulousP (Oct 9, 2019)

FoxMcloud5655 said:


> Well, that's why I like to buy most of my goods from local sources.  Trying to find meat from a real slaughterhouse is tricky where I live, though, so I still haven't got that fleshed out.  In the meantime, Reasor's provides acceptable enough meat, provided you pay high-dollar for it.  Which I don't and I should


I'm thinking about starting a vegetarian diet to cut out meat costs. I'm not actually starting the diet, just thinking about starting the diet.


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## snobbysteven (Oct 9, 2019)

I feel like Blizzard didn't stop to think of what doing this would cause. Because at the end of the day this will hurt them much more than help them. I feel like they act right away without actually thinking of the massive mess this will cause. If anyone at blizzard thought this wouldn't cause any drama before they did this. Then they probably should look for a new type of job lolol.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 9, 2019)

To bastardise a quote from layer cake.

Always remember that one day all this not offending China business will be normal. They won't leave it to just those in China... not when they finally figure out how much money is to be made - not millions, fucking billions. Sanitised Entertainment PLC - giving the people what the people's party wants... Good times of today will be tepid stupor tomorrow. But this is now, so until prohibition starts in earnest make hay while the sun shines.


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## VartioArtel (Oct 9, 2019)

To think this whole kerfluffle could have been prevented by:

A: Properly stating the rules where political statements aren't permitted, not a "At our discretion" line.
B: Not firing* the casters. Clearly they knew that what he said wasn't good.
C: Stating clearly "While we understand some people have their preferences, our platform is not to be used for a political movement".

The wording on C is important. They don't want to be clearly for or against China, just acknowledge he has his point of view.

* - I use fire, they simply contracted these guys and won't bring them back (which is fairly similar to being fired). For what? Because they knew what he did was wrong and they didn't want the situation to explode? Seems the production team completely slipped up too, why did we not hear about them?


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## SpiffyJUNIOR (Oct 9, 2019)

Blizzard just unveiled the new logo:


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## billapong (Oct 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> US citizens aren't buying fewer Chinese goods simply because there are tariffs on them, that's why they haven't been effective.  If conservatives are concerned about being hypocritical, they'll have to stop shopping at Wal-Mart, and I think hell will sooner freeze over before that happens.
> 
> 
> China's inequality is second only to the USA's.  Blizzard and other corporations are obligated to bow to the authoritarian Chinese government simply because China has the largest consumer base on Earth, which makes this a problem caused by over-zealous capitalism.
> ...



Socialism has been tried plenty of times, enough to know it doesn't work out. How would you deal with the people in the USA that would refuse to adopt it if it were passed? I'd imagine it would be worse than how you deal with critics now. You'll never have complete control over anyone else, let alone yourself, and especially not me.

I can remember when Wal Mart started, they used to stock 100% "Made in the USA" products. You wouldn't find one single item not made in the States, but when the owner died the new leadership scum used the good name he had made for the company and sold out to China. Depending on the location you visit most of the food will be locally grown, but the food prices have been going up because of the tariffs on Chinese garbage. They're trying to offset the costs. It's best to shop at local farmers markets, meat markets, etc ... anyway.

I know it's more of a hassle and costs a bit more to shop around, but once everything is said and done you can get your goods for around what you'd pay at Wal Mart and also support your local community. Now that they're raising prices on food due to the higher prices on their Chinese garbage it might be a good time to find an alternative source. No one really needs a "super center" to begin with, especially one filled with cheap shit that won't last your a year.

I wonder if the ownership that sold out to China were Liberals? I haven't really looked into the issue, but it wouldn't surprise me.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FoxMcloud5655 said:


> Well, that's why I like to buy most of my goods from local sources.  Trying to find meat from a real slaughterhouse is tricky where I live, though, so I still haven't got that fleshed out.  In the meantime, Reasor's provides acceptable enough meat, provided you pay high-dollar for it.  Which I don't and I should



I purchase my meat in bulk from local meat markets. We're omnivores, so it would be stupid for me to cut out meat out of my diet completely, but I don't just eat the stuff that comes from cows. I like a variety and steaks cost a lot. I'd say buying in bulk can save you $50 - $150 a month depending on how much you buy. Well, at least compared to normal prices in normal chain based grocery stores.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



snobbysteven said:


> I feel like Blizzard didn't stop to think of what doing this would cause. Because at the end of the day this will hurt them much more than help them. I feel like they act right away without actually thinking of the massive mess this will cause. If anyone at blizzard thought this wouldn't cause any drama before they did this. Then they probably should look for a new type of job lolol.



I don't think politics have any place in video games. People are already trying to turn anything they can into a political thing, which really ruins stuff like tragic deaths, natural disasters and now video games. There's a difference between telling a story and trying to force action on a current political movement (or trying to tell people who to vote for). That shit has no place in games.

Example: IGN saying "It's time to vote" versus IGN running anti-Trump articles. I don't need to get the Left's daily hate intake through the games or gaming sites I'm visiting. Saying "Get out and vote" is fine, but trying to influence my vote is not. Case- Anti-Trump hate on tariffs that are penalizing China for slave labor and cheap crap that might result in higher prices for video gaming consoles. If you're going to bash China over this and you don't support tariffs because you want cheap shit then you're part of the problem. At the end of the day I rather not have to deal with the intolerant Left when I'm trying to play a game.


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## Viri (Oct 9, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> To think this whole kerfluffle could have been prevented by:
> 
> A: Properly stating the rules where political statements aren't permitted, not a "At our discretion" line.
> B: Not firing* the casters. Clearly they knew that what he said wasn't good.
> ...


I do think they could have save face, if they just added a new rule, where they say no politics allowed. But, if they did that, they'd have a hard time being able to virtue signal in the west. 

More gaming companies should look at Nintendo. Doesn't matter which side you're on, no politics allowed, period. You'd remove the risk of alienating a bunch of fans.


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## billapong (Oct 9, 2019)

Viri said:


> I do think they could have save face, if they just added a new rule, where they say no politics allowed. But, if they did that, they'd have a hard time being able to virtue signal in the west.
> 
> More gaming companies should look at Nintendo. Doesn't matter which side you're on, no politics allowed, period. You'd remove the risk of alienating a bunch of fans.



It's just sad that if public figures or companies express their political views that life long fans would refuse to use their products over simple differences. So we're left with people or companies that have views, but never express them. It's not like that people don't have political views. To simply pounce on some company because they finally share how they think after you've been a long time fan is pretty petty and shows how intolerant you are, but that's just how people are these days (I'm guilty of this myself sometimes). So yes I agree. Due to the fact people are stupid video gaming companies should follow Nintendo's example and just not share their views publicly and refrain from pushing politics (in any form) in gaming.


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## Deleted User (Oct 9, 2019)

It always surprises me when I hear about Americans buying food at Walmart, cos my mental picture of Walmart is a department store like Kmart here in New Zealand. In New Zealand, buying groceries and a games console in the same store is unheard of.

We do have lollies and soda at The Warehouse, but that's about it for food in a department store.


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## IncredulousP (Oct 10, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> It always surprises me when I hear about Americans buying food at Walmart, cos my mental picture of Walmart is a department store like Kmart here in New Zealand. In New Zealand, buying groceries and a games console in the same store is unheard of.


Oh, you have Kmart too? We have a couple in Los Angeles, CA.



Snugglevixen said:


> We do have lollies and soda at The Warehouse, but that's about it for food in a department store.


You have lolis and soda in a warehouse?? You bastard, let them out!


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## Xzi (Oct 10, 2019)

billapong said:


> Socialism has been tried plenty of times, enough to know it doesn't work out. How would you deal with the people in the USA that would refuse to adopt it if it were passed?


Not an issue since no candidate running is truly a Socialist by definition.  Democratic Socialist is essentially synonymous with New Deal Democrat, and New Deal policies led to the most successful 50-year period of American history.  Absolute horseshit to suggest it "didn't work out," the crony capitalist system we have now is what isn't working.  In the richest nation on Earth, people are dying from homelessness, starvation, and out of control healthcare costs.



billapong said:


> I can remember when Wal Mart started, they used to stock 100% "Made in the USA" products.


I don't remember this ever being the case (at least not since I've been alive).  Wal-Mart's products have always been priced on the very low end, and they've always made a profit for the company anyway.  That's only possible with cheap Chinese goods.



billapong said:


> I wonder if the ownership that sold out to China were Liberals? I haven't really looked into the issue, but it wouldn't surprise me.


There are people on both sides of the political spectrum willing to sell out their morals and values in the name of greater corporate profit.  They're called neoconservatives and neoliberals, and I've said it before, but they're two sides of the same bootlicking coin.


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## seany1990 (Oct 10, 2019)

I cancelled my classic wow sub yesterday. Liberty and freedom should ALWAYS take precedence over greed.


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## The Catboy (Oct 10, 2019)

Honestly, fuck Blizzard.


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## IncredulousP (Oct 10, 2019)

Damn Blizzard, that's cold.


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## SG854 (Oct 10, 2019)

IncredulousP said:


> Damn Blizzard, that's cold.


You r winner


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## Viri (Oct 10, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> It always surprises me when I hear about Americans buying food at Walmart, cos my mental picture of Walmart is a department store like Kmart here in New Zealand. In New Zealand, buying groceries and a games console in the same store is unheard of.
> 
> We do have lollies and soda at The Warehouse, but that's about it for food in a department store.


If it makes you feel better, Walmart is getting destroyed pretty hard by Amazon. Sadly, Amazon are as big of scum bags as Walmart though, and treat their employees like human garbage.


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## Xzi (Oct 10, 2019)

Viri said:


> If it makes you feel better, Walmart is getting destroyed pretty hard by Amazon. Sadly, Amazon are as big of scum bags as Walmart though, and treat their employees like human garbage.


True, but at least they pay $15/hour minimum to the employees they treat like shit.  Wal-Mart treats employees like shit and pays as little as possible, which is around $7.50/hour in some states.  Neither laughably low wages nor poor working conditions would be a problem if there hadn't been a concerted effort in this country to diminish the power of unions over the last forty years.


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## SG854 (Oct 10, 2019)

Viri said:


> and treat their employees like human garbage.


R u sure? How does one treat their employees like human garbage? R they physically beating their employees? Many warehouses and stores each run by different bosses. They are really strict on safety too and will fire you on the spot for the most ridiculous small things and rules you break all in the name of safety, I know people that work at Amazon and say it's a easy job for $15 an hour in an air conditioned work environment. They also provide free water bottles to keep you hydrated so you wont collapse.  The only thing really is health benefits lacking. And I know people that worked at mc donalds and bk, just about many stores. I think some of these big company jobs are over exaggerated in shittyness.


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## Viri (Oct 10, 2019)

Xzi said:


> True, but at least they pay $15/hour minimum to the employees they treat like shit.  Wal-Mart treats employees like shit and pays as little as possible, which is around $7.50/hour in some states.  Neither laughably low wages nor poor working conditions would be a problem if there hadn't been a concerted effort in this country to diminish the power of unions over the last forty years.


They pay 15 dollars an hour or more in my city. I have a friend who works there.




SG854 said:


> R u sure? How does one treat their employees like human garbage? R they physically beating their employees? Many warehouses and stores each run by different bosses. They are really strict on safety too and will fire you on the spot for the most ridiculous small things and rules you break all in the name of safety, I know people that work at Amazon and say it's a easy job for $15 an hour in an air conditioned work environment. They also provide free water bottles to keep you hydrated so you wont collapse.  The only thing really is health benefits lacking. And I know people that worked at mc donalds and bk, just about many stores. I think some of these big company jobs are over exaggerated in shittyness.


Nope, but you sure do feel like you took a beating if you work there. I worked in their warehouse a few years ago. They rush you like crazy, hardly give out breaks. They don't care about their workers at all, and only care about time and money. If you slow down, they'll axe you in a heart beat. And will remind you that you're easily replaceable. Surprising enough, the job was super easy to get. No interview, you just go to some orientation, and bam, you're working there. I would say working for Amazon and UPS was some of the hardest jobs I've ever had.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 10, 2019)

I normally try to see the issue from both sides when it comes to controversies like this. China is a developing market for video games and the ruling party is very particular about any form of commentary regarding their regime. Blizzard is a corporation, their primary obligations lay with their customer base and stock holders. Losing ground in China would mean diminished profit for the company and a dip in their stock price, those losses would automatically be passed on to the consumers, there's no question about that. I wouldn't characterise the move as necessarily siding with the Chinese government, rather choosing not to take a side at all, and taking extreme measures to remove anything political from their platform for fear of reprisal. It would be nice to see a company like Blizzard support what's right, but that's a principled stance, and you can't eat those - there are millions of dollars at stake. If the customer base is principled regarding this issue, I fully support voting with your wallet and not purchasing any Blizzard or Activision products - corporations react to their profit margins, not loud yet empty voices of criticism. If people truly want corporations to stop bending the knee to an obviously horrendous regime, they must necessarily punish the ones that do monetarily - that's how the free market works. It has to be more than just words, so boycott away.


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## SG854 (Oct 10, 2019)

Viri said:


> They pay 15 dollars an hour or more in my city. I have a friend who works there.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, but you sure do feel like you took a beating if you work there. I worked in their warehouse a few years ago. They rush you like crazy, hardly give out breaks. They don't care about their workers at all, and only care about time and money. If you slow down, they'll axe you in a heart beat. And will remind you that you're easily replaceable. Surprising enough, the job was super easy to get. No interview, you just go to some orientation, and bam, you're working there. I would say working for Amazon and UPS was some of the hardest jobs I've ever had.


That's what I heard it's the easiest job to get ever.

R u one of those lazy types that complains about working. Since you r working in the warehouse im guessing you are one of the sorters/working on the conveyor belt. Scanning bar codes and putting things in a bag, an easy job. From what my friends tell me they get a brake half way during part time shift, close to full time you get a longer lunch break. And if you r falling behind sorting packages there will always be someone to help you out. So either their standards have gotten better since you worked there, or you worked at a shitty location that's not like that at every location, or you r just a lazy complainer.


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## Joe88 (Oct 10, 2019)

In any case blizzcon is going to be a mess. Expecting protesters, people constantly yelling out when there is people on stage, it was one thing with the "dO yOu GuYs NoT hAvE pHoNeS?" comment but this is a whole different beast.


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## Deleted User (Oct 10, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> I wouldn't characterise the move as necessarily siding with the Chinese government, rather choosing not to take a side at all,


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## Foxi4 (Oct 10, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


>


It's not about morality or taking sides, it's about PR and big money. If you're under the delusion that Blizzard or Activision care about the issue one way or the other, you should snap out of it - they care about the increasingly growing Chinese market that they don't want to be restricted from.


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## Captain_N (Oct 10, 2019)

Blizzard just did not want to get a low social score in china's social scoring system. They might lose the ability to fly in their private jets to china. Remember Bernie sanders loves china's form of government. He has said that before. 
I actully have not bought a blizzard game since starcraft brood war's initial release  in the late 90's. It does not require an internet connection to play multiplayer and single player. Best feature of the game.


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## billapong (Oct 10, 2019)

Viri said:


> They pay 15 dollars an hour or more in my city. I have a friend who works there.
> 
> Nope, but you sure do feel like you took a beating if you work there. I worked in their warehouse a few years ago. They rush you like crazy, hardly give out breaks. They don't care about their workers at all, and only care about time and money. If you slow down, they'll axe you in a heart beat. And will remind you that you're easily replaceable. Surprising enough, the job was super easy to get. No interview, you just go to some orientation, and bam, you're working there. I would say working for Amazon and UPS was some of the hardest jobs I've ever had.



I guess if you don't like hard physical labor then you shouldn't work in a warehouse. Although, after you get a daily workout for some years you'll end up driving a fork lift or having some little office where you can sit and manage stuff all day long. I suggest if you don't like physical labor to not get a job based on it.


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## Sakitoshi (Oct 10, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


>


yeah, let's forget that pr managers more often than not do what they want with those accounts.
in this case the pr manager is obviously a china supporter, but that doesn't represent what is actually happening behind the scenes.


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## Deleted User (Oct 10, 2019)

Apparently the Hearthstone Weibo account is managed by netease.

Funny how they use their discretion to ban a player who brings the company into disrepute and offends a group of people and fire the casters who inadvertantly hosted it, but netease is off the hook.


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## Sakitoshi (Oct 10, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> Apparently the Hearthstone Weibo account is managed by netease.
> 
> Funny how they use their discretion to ban a player who brings the company into disrepute and offends a group of people and fire the casters who inadvertantly hosted it, but netease is off the hook.


it's always like that.
the masses just like to have a single scapegoat, no matter who, and once you start rolling that ball there is no way back.
labeling someone a criminal will mark him for life even if later it's known that he really wasn't the culprit.


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## Dax_Fame (Oct 10, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> They already said once that a character is trans but they won't say who.
> TBH, that's probably some of the most sensitive representation of trans people in video games because trans people don't like being outed.


They're actually just waiting a few years to really freak out whoever's been ganking it every night to D.Va! 

...

Oh God, what have I done?!


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## notimp (Oct 10, 2019)

billapong said:


> I can understand how realizing how favoring communism can lead to problems. This is why I question people against the Chinese tariffs. If you're against Blizzard favoring China and then are against Trump for trying to make China less of an influence in our own country then you have personal issues that are causing confliction within yourself. I agree that China goes way too far with many things, but they are communists. What do you expect? If we adopt socialism we're one step closer to becoming them. Blizzard shouldn't be favoring communism nor should any other USA citizen.


Yes and no.  Yes on on the emotional and superfluous front all the way.

You can use concepts like 'democracy', 'nationalism', 'human rights', 'communism' (McCarthyism), 'socialism', 'we against them' - and in your internal logic you are entirely correct.

Until you look and the edges.

- Nationalism was invented to get people over feudal structures to 'grow more'.
- Democracy was invented by the greek, and in the form we use today - has nothing in common with the original concept.
- Human rights were invented as moral values structure after another world war, and then used to further political goals also
- Communism was prepped up to be another 'our world view against theirs' battle - and was ultimately defeated. But this was more a struggle over world supremacy - not an ideological war. So China is also communism, but something 'different'? At least our rhetoric has changed by 180 degrees.
- Socialism is practiced by the majority of countries in the western world.
- 'We against them' is for morons. (Because its so easy.)

Here are a few stories for you. America in the recent decades always needed a 'boogieman' a villain to pacify their societies. This was a known political gambit. You can read about it mainstream political theory. It allows you to send your troops around the world for a narrative concept. It allows you to feel needed, important, exceptional...

And the only rebuttle to it up till today is 'yes, but villains do exist' ( https://arcdigital.media/america-needs-a-better-national-story-e391c71f8a69 ) until you withdraw from international relations and agreement, withdraw from military safekeeping, retract to nationalism and start to look to the rest of the world, like a villain yourself. Also you became oligarchical, way back when... ( https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/wal...rs-may-back-trump-if-warren-is-nominated.html )

So if, the plaque on the statue of freedom isnt enough to make you remember, america currently is the entire opposite of what the founding fathers intended. They lost. But the myth was great for pacifying, so people kept it up.

Now - this follows its own internal logic. If you are loosing importance as fast as the US does, you can prep this up by getting further into debt for one generation, to shift more gains to your ultra rich - while making sure to isolate your country more effectively (energy dependance), you can make a few straw fires for the manufacturing industries, or spy on the entire world - none of that is a long lasting perspective concerning the forces you are facing.

You can dust off McCartheyism once more and mobilize ideologically against China, but people already arent believing you anymore. Again, the developing world follows Chinas economic blueprints - america by no means is a thought leader anymore - in anything.

You are fighting a retracting battle. You pull all the 'fuck over others' gambits you can pull. In software (Huawai can kiss their smartphone business away), in international politics (Turkey can wipe out the Kurds), in international relations (bad deal, we moved the Ambassy to our satellite state israel), in economics (we caused the financial crisis), in economic relations (if our social media giants cant use tax loop holes, we want trade wars), in foreign policy ('it would be a shame if the dollar influx into your country stopped, because you can only buy certain goods in dollars'), in international politics (Paris Agreement, f.e.).

So yes to all your points. But what socialism and in todays world even communism 'means' will have a different outcome, than - what those ideas stand for in your mind. The first indicator. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, was interested in defending democracy in Hong Kong. The international stance is 'fuck democracy' in Hong Kong.

And a few lousy senators tweeting does nothing to change that. 

So name all the words that make you proud for the identity you hold so dearly - but the outcome will be along those lines..
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=decline+of+empire

Now - america will come back to the international state eventually, but currently its fleeing every responsibility it had at double speed. Let the world go into turmoil a little - let it play out, then ravage the remains, kind of attitude.

America the beautiful.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 10, 2019)

billapong said:


> I guess if you don't like hard physical labor then you shouldn't work in a warehouse. Although, after you get a daily workout for some years you'll end up driving a fork lift or having some little office where you can sit and manage stuff all day long. I suggest if you don't like physical labor to not get a job based on it.


While play to your strengths is generally part of a solid plan in life we did see some investigative journalists take a spin in there and reports from people that did fine in other warehouse jobs (or even building sites) before and after. Most of those had it seem like Amazon went a bit further than most, the time focus, targets and generally noting the eminent replaceability of the floor workers (which if you are a few missed pay packets from homelessness is not great) being consistent themes in all of those, fewer members of manglement have spoken out but those that did also tell similar stories.
I will note that several of those were 30-40 something women that had enjoyed the American diet and sedentary lifestyle (not necessarily to its fullest but visibly if you are at all versed in what to look for) but not all.


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## Ev1l0rd (Oct 10, 2019)

Shouldn't this be in the general gaming news section? IDK seems more appropriate there (although granted, I don't think the discussion quality would fare any better outside of this abysmal board).

Anyways, fuck Blizzard for that move. Perphaps interesting is that people who are engaging in the Boycott are trying to use the Overwatch (a game also published by Blizzard) character Mei as their mascot.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/10/9/20906320/overwatch-mei-blizzard-hong-kong-protest-banned-memes

--

I personally have a much greater issue with Blizzard firing the broadcasters. Like, okay, I can't agree with the ban of the champion, but the broadcasters? Really? This shit was conducted _on a live camera_. You can literally see the broadcasters get uncomfortable the moment the guy starts about the Hong Kong stuff and did what they could to cut to commercial. Like, you're firing these people because of something they literally were unable to control.

As to why I disagree to the ban of the champion; China has been trying to take over Hong Kongs sovereignity, and the Chinese government is somewhat known for its long track of human rights abuses and severely authoritarian rulership. As someone who sees himself as anti-authoritarian, that's just not acceptable to me. Activision Blizzard engaging in this behavior is basically saying they tacitly support the Chinese government on this issue.

Pro-tip I guess: If your desire is to be "apolitical" (which is a defense that I've seen some ActiBliz fanboys use), your resulting side often ends up being opposite to the side you first take action on. In short: it's functionally not possible to _be_ apolitical.

--

Also, can someone rename this thread? Branding China as a prison is very loaded language imho and it doesn't make clear to an outsider that it's about the Chinese government until they open the thread.


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## notimp (Oct 10, 2019)

Ev1l0rd said:


> I personally have a much greater issue with Blizzard firing the broadcasters. Like, okay, I can't agree with the ban of the champion, but the broadcasters? Really? This shit was conducted _on a live camera_.


Those arent journalists.
Those are corporate employees, payed with PR/marketing funds.
If you work in PR/marketing, and on your job get caught ducking away from controversy under your desk - you are producing the biggest possible PR damage for the company.

You get fired for that, to serve as an image for the next two dozen mouth pieces.

Again - shed the perception, that something here should have happened more impartial, fairer, or more like in a proper society.

This is not your movement. This is not your culture. This is a corporate marketing ploy given any resemblance of importance by marketing spending. To entice more people to spend real money. Once you got that into your head - the entire story and company reaction will become much clearer to you.

Those people had the job to sell you on the believe of professionalism, and importance of a designed concept. As casters. Now you are sorry for them? You'd wanted for them to remain in their jobs, peddling you a fantasy? 

On a side note, they are burned. If the most famous thing you've done in your public career was to duck under a table, when thing became controversial - you'll never loose that image again. Of course they were fired. You dont need your 'public officials' to be tainted that way.

Just because they 'talk like journalists' - they arent. (Things millennials or gen z'ers will never understand. Part 1 )

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Maybe I should post the video of Daigo (of Street Fighter fame) now living his dream as a care worker for the elderly again?

Everyone in the racket gets payed more than the actual talent. And they all know it. And they can joke about it? And then you feel sorry for them when they acted 'humanly' when they are payed not to?

This is how 'the tournament scene' on 'live experiences' economies works. If you are a caster, you are complicit. And help others to pray on minors. Basically. Because the entire sense of importance you create around a game where devs can change powerbalances, while yawning, with a mouseclick - is fake. You are faking others out. To spend money. And then you call it cerebral and entertainment.


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## billapong (Oct 10, 2019)

notimp said:


> Just because they 'talk like journalists' - they arent. (Things millennials or gen z'ers will never understand. Part 1 )



While I generally disagree with your position on the USA (because you're a foreigner) and socialism (because it sucks) this post was insightful, especially the part I quoted. Although, I think with some proper education into what proper journalism consist of they could learn a thing or two and actually contribute to things (if you want an example of bad journalism (or lack of proper journalism), just take a gander at CNN).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> This is how 'the tournament scene' on 'live experiences' economies works. If you are a caster, you are complicit. And help others to pray on minors. Basically. Because the entire sense of importance you create around a game where devs can change powerbalances, while yawning, with a mouseclick - is fake. You are faking others out. To spend money. And then you call it cerebral and entertainment.



That's simply entertainment. These online tournaments really don't mean much in the overall sense of things. They're just something to watch for fun. They're not serious things. They're simply games.


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## Ev1l0rd (Oct 10, 2019)

notimp said:


> Those arent journalists.
> Those are corporate employees, payed with PR/marketing funds.
> If you work in PR/marketing, and on your job get caught ducking away from controversy under your desk - you are producing the biggest possible PR damage for the company.


I never said they were journalists. Never pretended they were either. They're a broadcaster team that works for Blizzards marketing team that realized that the moment this guy opened his mouth on Hong Kong that he was putting their jobs on the line.

Like, I'm a cashier, not exactly a thing with high job security or anything, and I usually don't get in trouble if someone does stupid shit as long as I didn't cause it or made the situation worse. It's insane to me that Blizzard opted to fire them because of something they had no say _or_ control over. *My bottom-of-the-barrel job has higher job security than the job of these people.*



notimp said:


> Again - shed the perception, that something here should have happened more impartial, fairer, or more like in a proper society.


Just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. I know it's not fair, but that doesn't change that I can express my desire to want it to be fair and personally criticize the situation for being unfair.



notimp said:


> This is not your movement. This is not your culture. This is a corporate marketing ploy given any resemblance of importance by marketing spending. To entice more people to spend real money. Once you got that into your head - the entire story and company reaction will become much clearer to you.


*I get why they did it; ActiBliz wants to suck up to the Chinese government so they don't risk getting their asses banned from China.* I'm saying that I find it pathethic and ridiculous that they managed to tacitly agree with a government that abuses human rights on a regular basis whilst trying to enact a Big Brother state. Because, _no matter how you spin it_, that's what they inadvertingly did.



notimp said:


> Those people had the job to sell you on the believe of professionalism, and importance of a designed concept. As casters. Now you are sorry for them? You'd wanted for them to remain in their jobs, peddling you a fantasy?


I think I covered this up above a little, but I'm sorry for them to the extent that they _got fired over something they had no control over_.



notimp said:


> On a side note, they are burned. If the most famous thing you've done in your public career was to duck under a table, when thing became controversial - you'll never loose that image again. Of course they were fired. You dont need your 'public officials' to be tainted that way.


It seemed to me like they panicked and realized they were done for.



notimp said:


> Just because they 'talk like journalists' - they arent. (Things millennials or gen z'ers will never understand. Part 1 )


Pointless attack on my age range aside, I never said they spoke like journalists. See above.



notimp said:


> Maybe I should post the video of Daigo (of Street Fighter fame) now living his dream as a care worker for the elderly again?
> 
> Everyone in the racket gets payed more than the actual talent. And they all know it. And they can joke about it? And then you feel sorry for them when they acted 'humanly' when they are payed not to?
> 
> This is how 'the tournament scene' on 'live experiences' economies works. If you are a caster, you are complicit. And help others to pray on minors. Basically. Because the entire sense of importance you create around a game where devs can change powerbalances, while yawning, with a mouseclick - is fake. You are faking others out. To spend money. And then you call it cerebral and entertainment.


Dunno what this has to do with anything here.


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## Deleted User (Oct 11, 2019)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Pro-tip I guess: If your desire is to be "apolitical" (which is a defense that I've seen some ActiBliz fanboys use), your resulting side often ends up being opposite to the side you first take action on. In short: it's functionally not possible to _be_ apolitical.


The weibo pr statement was the complete opposite of apolitical.
Fascist dictatorships require you by law to be politically biased towards their side.


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## Deleted member 377734 (Oct 12, 2019)

Viri said:


> Here is how South Park responded.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



If you've been on reddit recently, you might find that R/Blizzard is organizing a large scale BlizzCon event. Essentially, everyone showing up in Winnie the Pooh outfits to mock China's Xi, as that's his internet image.


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## Deleted User (Oct 12, 2019)

lcie nimbus said:


> If you've been on reddit recently, you might find that R/Blizzard is organizing a large scale BlizzCon event. Essentially, everyone showing up in Winnie the Pooh outfits to mock China's Xi, as that's his internet image.


Should dress up as Soldier 76 and yell free Hong Kong since he wears a mask and goggles. It will attract the censor attention to OW better than the Mei memes because we don't even need to make fanart for him to represent a protester, much like the Winnie the Pooh memes which compared Xi to the official Winnie the Pooh and got him banned.
Did I also mention 76 is canonically a gay vigilante?


Example:


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## billapong (Oct 12, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> Should dress up as Soldier 76 and yell free Hong Kong since he wears a mask and goggles. It will attract the censor attention to OW better than the Mei memes because we don't even need to make fanart for him to represent a protester, much like the Winnie the Pooh memes which compared Xi to the official Winnie the Pooh and got him banned.
> Did I also mention 76 is canonically a gay vigilante?



After your cosplay and protesting you should take a step back and thank the people who died for you that allowed you to do such things in protest of a place that would put you in Prison for doing so on their lands. After that you should never vote to limit or eliminate those freedoms.


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## Viri (Oct 12, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> Should dress up as Soldier 76 and yell free Hong Kong since he wears a mask and goggles. It will attract the censor attention to OW better than the Mei memes because we don't even need to make fanart for him to represent a protester, much like the Winnie the Pooh memes which compared Xi to the official Winnie the Pooh and got him banned.
> Did I also mention 76 is canonically a gay vigilante?
> 
> 
> ...


If I lived on the west coast, I'd so show up in a Winnie the Pooh costume! I'd get denied entry, but it'd so be worth it! I don't care about Blizzcon at all, so I don't mind getting a life time ban. I also never plan to visit main land China. I wish Blizzcon was in NYC, because it cost only like 10 bux for me to go there.

Also
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/bli...weekend-s-hearthstone-grandmasters-tournament

Interesting how different their statement is, compared to the one they gave to Chinese social media.


Spoiler


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## Deleted User (Oct 12, 2019)

Viri said:


> If I lived on the west coast, I'd so show up in a Winnie the Pooh costume! I'd get denied entry, but it'd so be worth it! I don't care about Blizzcon at all, so I don't mind getting a life time ban. I also never plan to visit main land China. I wish Blizzcon was in NYC, because it cost only like 10 bux for me to go there.
> 
> Also
> https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/bli...weekend-s-hearthstone-grandmasters-tournament
> ...


"If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same."
*cough* Weibo *cough*

Remember when Poland had it's sovereignty threatened by fascist invaders and it got downplayed as a 'viewpoint'?


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## Viri (Oct 12, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> Remember when Poland had it's sovereignty threatened by fascist invaders and it got downplayed as a 'viewpoint'?


Germany and Russia just had very very extreme view points, that lead to around nearly a million people dead in Poland!


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## notimp (Oct 18, 2019)

Oh look how effective the public outcry was. Blizzard suspends more people:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/16...students-grandmaster-china-hong-kong-protests

If you start to actually learn how things are connected economically, you see these things coming you know...

(Of course, you then live in a reality - where you see that stuff isn't at all like a majority believes, and can do nothing about it.  )



Viri said:


> Germany and Russia just had very very extreme view points, that lead to around nearly a million people dead in Poland!


What the... A generalization over more than one world war and more than one countries population?
Annexing countries now a 'viewpoint'?

Things millennials say? With  smilies?


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## Ev1l0rd (Oct 18, 2019)

notimp said:


> Oh look how effective the public outcry was. Blizzard suspends more people:
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/16...students-grandmaster-china-hong-kong-protests


These kids knew what was coming their way when they did it. IIRC they were the first streamers _after_ the announcement the original was banned. They fully took this risk into account.



notimp said:


> If you start to actually learn how things are connected economically, you see these things coming you know...


Just because we can see it *coming*, doesn't make it *correct*.


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## notimp (Oct 18, 2019)

Public morals have no, I repeat, no impact on political or corporate decision making.

No impact. None whatsoever.

In election years you use them to garner support, then they can impact broader outlines - but in the past years none of them were 'new' so you have managing strategies for all of them.

If you think about this in actual existing systems of PR, politics, economies, capitalism - it comes down to, this entire emotional outbust is seen as human irrationality and matters for nothing.

"We the people" is only needed for political legitimization, and in this process everything goes. So even there, morals are used as a tool, and not as a guideline.

We know, that people wont keep up their morals in mass to hold up decisions they've made. So even the threat of 'then we'll stop buying your products' is tame.


A good example for this is the casino business f.e. Is it moral? No. End of story.

People think, there is more to it, because it has a public image of ratpack, and James Bond, Vegas performers and whatnot - but thats just PR. It has nothing todo with why gabling isnt outlawed. Its just that morals don't count for Jack. (And if it would be outlawed, people would engage in it anyhow, so it is better to have it regulated, and...)

And if you have them (I do), congratulations. They are good for nothing in terms of how our societies are structured. (If push comes to shove, most people discard them at will, so you cant build lasting structures on them. Even catholicism - if you think about it, used confession as a concept based on 'morals never work'.)

If you are  outraged, just  know -  that it  will change absolutely nothing.  (If  you stop buying their products, it might - but even thats not likely (in this case).)


Also - in the past they maybe counted more as a counterbalance, when you still had journalism as a function of societal counterbalancing of certain interest - but even thats questionable, and if you look at today - do you think the youtuber of your choice has replaced that structurally?

Hm.

Everyone can has a feel. Come share it in mass adoration rituals. Thats all that is.

Do americans think, that because of Hollywood morals their businesses will retract from the chinese market. Do they really? What, are international wars now fought because its good vs. evil? 'To bring others democracy'?

Thats the substantial problem I have with this. A good portion of people never clue through that in life. And they end up as soldiers in wars, stating into TV cameras, that they find it odd, that the other side, doesnt see them as liberators. Because thats what they were sold on.

Capitalism as a whole yearns for people with no ethics or morals whatsoever, that take unrectified risks at the appropriate time - because its so easy to find a few smucks, who clean up their remains at minimum wage - with a strong feeling about showing morals for each other and their peers anyhow.

What you need at the decision making level is not people that have 'what would Disney do' imprinted in their minds, but people that don't care about that fluff at all, because you have so many people who do by default - and thereby don't take initiative, risk, or do care about law (if you can calculate out, that the fines you will be hit with are smaller than potential profit, you dont).

Got it? Good.


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## Deleted User (Oct 18, 2019)

Team AU wanted to get banned.


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## Ev1l0rd (Oct 19, 2019)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...se-its-decision-to-suspend-a-hearthstone-pro/

Bipartisan politicians (AOC and Marco Rubio) have now basically said Blizzard done fucked up.


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## chrisrlink (Oct 19, 2019)

i'd saythe US congress draft up something to ban blizzard from doing anything state side (blizzcon, esports hell even wow servers in the US at least until blizzard see's what they did was wrong maybe get the EU on board too)


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## Ev1l0rd (Oct 19, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> i'd saythe US congress draft up something to ban blizzard from doing anything state side (blizzcon, esports hell even wow servers in the US at least until blizzard see's what they did was wrong maybe get the EU on board too)


Thats not something Congress does, and it would also probably violate free speech and be unconstitutional.

As much as it sucks, legally, Activision Blizzard isn't breaking any laws here. They're just morally unscrupulous (and as notimp says, morality sadly matters very little in the capitalist society we live in) and decided that not losing Chinas market is worth more than the PR hit.

I personally don't think it was worth the PR hit and it paints a really bad picture of Activision Blizzard as a company, but that's me.
--

Related stuff: Blizcon is less than a month away, that's gonna be special. Blizzard also cancelled a WoW anniversary in Taiwan and dropped out of the Nintendo Direct launch event for Overwatch (which Nintendo cancelled entirely as a result and directly blamed Blizzard for). Speaking of Nintendo, promotion on the US end of things for Overwatch has been pretty low, with the game not even getting a release promotion on Nintendos twitter feeds as far as I can find, meaning Nintendo is trying to back off from the situation as well.

Please be aware that the previously announced Overwatch launch event scheduled for Wednesday, 10/16 at NintendoNYC has been cancelled by Blizzard. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.— Nintendo NY (@NintendoNYC) October 15, 2019


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## Deleted User (Oct 20, 2019)

Apparently Nintendo let people cancel Overwatch preorders under special circumstance.


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## notimp (Oct 22, 2019)

Ev1l0rd said:


> As much as it sucks, legally, Activision Blizzard isn't breaking any laws here. They're just morally unscrupulous (and as notimp says, morality sadly matters very little in the capitalist society we live in) and decided that not losing Chinas market is worth more than the PR hit.


There is also a philosophical argument, that you cant build societies on morals. Because morals by definition are partial and subjective (and situational). 

This is not a simple argument, its actually rather complicated.  (Judges f.e. have something called margin of disgression, to also take into account moral arguments, ..) And subjective (all philosophy is).

But it isnt just capitalism at fault here. 

If you are interested, maybe start by watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj507hxRXlTFhGVSWc_QgUXifFtU0QVQY


Capitalism in its simplest form acknowledges, that people will go to extremes to 'further their social situation' and aims to guide that into a direction where this impulse might be most beneficial to most people (in this case - in mainland china..  ). At the core argument, you cant take this impulse away from people and argue, that you do it because of morals. So you make business 'amoral' (not positive, not negative, just is). Politics (at the decision level) as well. But for politics you have 'constituencies' (so 'I help most people I'm representing, with my political stance' - but you don't argue decisions there on the moral level either).

Moral level is for societies at large (because we want that.  ), or talking to societies (PR / election campaigns (as a sort of 'everything goes' - in election campaigns  )).


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## Deleted User (Nov 2, 2019)

"Our actions are going to mean more than these words"

https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/overwatch-world-cup
Still misnaming Taiwan as 'Chinese Taipei'

Blitzchung and the casters still banned


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## IncredulousP (Nov 2, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> "Our actions are going to mean more than these words"
> 
> https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/overwatch-world-cup
> Still misnaming Taiwan as 'Chinese Taipei'
> ...


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## FAST6191 (Nov 2, 2019)

Stopped short of hardcore politician* but still managed to say nothing of any great meaning.

That said at this point I think the only course of action I would accept as anything resembling contrition would be for them in some to take the middle finger, point it at China and raise it high.

*The wonderful George Carlin providing a masterclass in the concept here


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