# MGS 3D Issues Remains Unfixed In The Final Build



## Eerpow (Feb 18, 2012)

According to Nintendo Magazine editor Steve Hogarty the framerate in the retail game remains unimproved.


Source



For those of you who haven't played the demo, the framerate often drops below 30fps, especially during cut scenes and that's without 4x AA or 3D.

This is sad really since it doesn't got anything to do with the the system's capabilities, something I can say with confidence after playing Resident Evil: Revelations,
a game which doesn't always takes place in small environments, or with small numbers of enemies displayed as many seems to think
and no I'm not talking about the mountain area.


----------



## Valwin (Feb 18, 2012)

:3 i guess the half ass it in the end


----------



## Midna (Feb 18, 2012)

:|


----------



## Paarish (Feb 18, 2012)

*hugs his PS3 and his copy of the HD collection* :3


----------



## heartgold (Feb 18, 2012)

On the bright side Snake's face has higher polygons than the original. The environment however has a slight lower polygon count, obviously the 3DS is much more capable.

It's lazy remake or they didn't spend enough time on it, I don't know whether the 3DS is port friendly as it's not a powerful system so unless games are built from scratch they won't be able to show the system capabilities.


----------



## Issac (Feb 18, 2012)

Yeah, the demo was really... stuttering  I don't care that much though... This isn't my type of game at all, but it's sad for those who were looking forward to this!


----------



## jimwhat (Feb 18, 2012)

That's sad to see. I was hoping to get the game


----------



## prowler (Feb 18, 2012)

No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.


----------



## BoxmanWTF (Feb 18, 2012)

Demo was pretty bad, glad I'm not getting this


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 18, 2012)

Is that a no on being prettier, a no on the framerate issue, or both?


----------



## GameDragon (Feb 18, 2012)

prowler_ said:


> No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.


I'd personally prefer playing on handheld if possible, as I don't spend much time playing my consoles. Demo was unimpressive, but I'll likely end up getting this anyway.


----------



## Valwin (Feb 18, 2012)

prowler_ said:


> No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.



because either they dont have a ps3/360 or they just wanted a portable version and they have a 3DS

and lest face it some framedrop in a game wont kill you


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 18, 2012)

GameDragon said:


> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> > No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.
> ...



Well, if you do plan on getting it soon, Amazon.com is having an offer for pre-ordering that when you buy it, it comes with a $10 credit bonus offer towards other Amazon.com purchases.

_edit_

About the frame rates. Are we comparing the frame rate issues in certain spots with the HD version, or the original PS2 game? From what I've read (since I hadn't played the original), the 3DS manages to do better in terms of frame rate than the PS2 could, but obviously can't compare to the HD versions.


----------



## jimwhat (Feb 18, 2012)

prowler_ said:


> No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.


Being in college, I dont have too much time to game, but I have some breaks between classes in which I can use a 3DS.


----------



## prowler (Feb 18, 2012)

So a game you'd rather pick up and play (which metal gear solid is NOT btw) vs. getting three games for the same price or cheaper.

Kojima will sure be rolling in the money.


----------



## emigre (Feb 18, 2012)

jimwhat said:


> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> > No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.
> ...



Than you'll be spending your breaks watching cutscenes.


----------



## jimwhat (Feb 18, 2012)

emigre said:


> jimwhat said:
> 
> 
> > prowler_ said:
> ...


Haha I guess that's one way of looking at it.

Still better than doing nothing.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 18, 2012)

emigre said:


> jimwhat said:
> 
> 
> > prowler_ said:
> ...



*Guy walks over*

Guy: "Hey, whatcha doing there?"
You: "I'm....uh.....playing a game."
Guy: "Really? Looks more like a movie to me."
You: "Why's that?"
Guy: "You're just looking at it, doing nothing else."


----------



## emigre (Feb 18, 2012)

jimwhat said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > jimwhat said:
> ...



I started playing MGS3 today via the HD collection and I really like it. But it's a terrible concept for a portable game due to the cutscenes and codec conversations. I had the same issue trying to play the original MGS on my PSP, in the end I deleted the game from my memory stick and just bought the game off PSN to play on my PS3.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 18, 2012)

emigre said:


> jimwhat said:
> 
> 
> > emigre said:
> ...



I don't disagree that the whole presentation of the game is more suited for a console. This is more for those people who want to play the game, but don't have the noted consoles and don't plan on getting a Vita.


----------



## emigre (Feb 18, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > jimwhat said:
> ...



Than those people need to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 18, 2012)

emigre said:


> Than those people need to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.



If they already have a 3DS, but not a PS3/XBox360, then what's the problem? They may not get the same kind of experience, but they definitely won't have to deal with the cost by going with the alternative. I'd think those that plop down $200-$250+ to purchase one of those consoles *only* to play the HD version need to take a harder look in the mirror than those that already have a 3DS and get the portable version. Only the interest of other games for said consoles would make it reasonable to purchase said consoles, not for a single game.

inb4 "you're not a true gamer if you don't own a PS3/XBox360"


----------



## emigre (Feb 18, 2012)

That was a flippant remark...

But I would agree with the notion of "you're not a true gamer if you don't own a PS3/Xbox 360."


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > Than those people need to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.
> ...


I agree wholeheartedly. There are people out there who simply live on the go, spending most of their time outside, at school/work or commuting - they'd rather play the game on a portable. Screw the cutscenes - you can skip them and watch some other time. Besides, you don't boot a game like that when you have only 5 minutes to play it - you boot it up on the bus when you know you'll be sitting on your ass for the next hour and you have time for it.


----------



## Langin (Feb 18, 2012)

I feel kinda unlucky, my parents bought this game for my birthday... :/

I liked the demo a bit, you know I always played Nintendo so I guess that's the reason why I barely didn't notice the drops. Yes, i played many games that had frame drops under 30fps. :3 Long live the shovelware!!!

Yes I am gettig this game!!! 

@emigre read foxi's post, your a true gamer when you own a ps3 or 360? 0.o long live Kinect and ps Move!!


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 18, 2012)

jimwhat said:


> Haha I guess that's one way of looking at it.
> 
> Still better than doing nothing.



Playing a plethora of superior 3DS games is also better than doing nothing.


----------



## gokujr1000 (Feb 18, 2012)

I was really hoping they'd fix up the frame rate. Guess I'm not getting this then.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 18, 2012)

heartgold said:


> *image*



They forgot the part where the 3DS version dips below 30 FPS a lot, the HD version runs at 60 FPS constantly, and the HD version also has two more games in it.

But it doesn't matter since Nintendo fans pride themselves on having incredibly apathy towards graphics, right?



DiscostewSM said:


> If they already have a 3DS, but not a PS3/XBox360, then what's the problem? They may not get the same kind of experience, but they definitely won't have to deal with the cost by going with the alternative. I'd think those that plop down $200-$250+ to purchase one of those consoles *only* to play the HD version need to take a harder look in the mirror than those that already have a 3DS and get the portable version. Only the interest of other games for said consoles would make it reasonable to purchase said consoles, not for a single game.



Who the hell would pay $180-$250 for a 3DS with a small library currently and not buy a $200 Xbox 360 or a $250 PS3. Like seriously.


----------



## Eerpow (Feb 18, 2012)

Valwin said:


> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> > No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.
> ...



It won't kill me but this is Konami!
I wouldn't care if this was ZOO or something or if it was running on weaker hardware but come on.
I expected more from them, it's totally possible to run it at a constant 30fps at least, why shouldn't we be able to do that?


I however can't play a game with unexpected framerate drops, that's my limit.


----------



## Valwin (Feb 18, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > *image*
> ...



because they want a portable and the other choice available is not that good ?

and the 3DS does have the DS library at is disposal too bad i cant say the same for well you know the other choice


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 18, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Who the hell would pay $180-$250 for a 3DS with a small library currently and not buy a $200 Xbox 360 or a $250 PS3. Like seriously.



I personally was very excited for the 3D (yeah, its a gimmick, so what, its a really cool gimmick) and have been quite happy with it so far. Might have been a little slow in the begining but it was nothing like the N64 days. Where as there is nothing on the PS3 or Xbox that really interests me.  Guess I'm not a "true gamer" even though I've been playing them since the early 80's. (2600 ftw!)

Back to the topic, if true it's a little sad and reeks of laziness. They've had plenty of time to make it run just fine, they just chose not too.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2012)

Valwin said:


> i know is konami but every company half ass it at the end  juts look at square


Yes, what about Square Enix is it that concerns you?


mysticwaterfall said:


> I personally was very excited for the 3D (yeah, its a gimmick, so what, its a really cool gimmick) and have been quite happy with it so far. Might have been a little slow in the begining but it was nothing like the N64 days. Where as there is nothing on the PS3 or Xbox that really interests me.  Guess I'm not a "true gamer" even though I've been playing them since the early 80's. (2600 ftw!)
> 
> Back to the topic, if true it's a little sad and reeks of laziness. They've had plenty of time to make it run just fine, they just chose not too.


Maybe you just haven't looked thoroughly yet. I personally haven't seen a console that didn't have at least 1 interesting title yet.  There's always this one diamond under the rubble.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 18, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But it doesn't matter since Nintendo fans pride themselves on having incredibly apathy towards graphics, right?



Yes, let generalize groups like it's some fact, like how people generalize PS3 and XBox360 owners for being graphics whores.



Guild McCommunist said:


> Who the hell would pay $180-$250 for a 3DS with a small library currently and not buy a $200 Xbox 360 or a $250 PS3. Like seriously.



Because people have preferences. Some like handheld gaming more than console gaming. Others don't. Already mentioned was the existing DS library.

Also, what if it was like this?



> Who the hell would pay $250+ for a Vita with a small library currently and not buy a $200 Xbox 360 or a $250 PS3. Like seriously.



The statement is still true, yes?


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2012)

Valwin said:


> the 3DS does have the DS library at is disposal too bad i cant say the same for well you know the other choice



Last time I checked, Vita was perfectly compatible with PSP games, just not UMD's, which, mind you, were deprecated as a medium in PSP Go days. Sony had no intention of continuing the UMD circus - it was the Sony fans that whined about it loud enough to have it implemented in the E-Street.


----------



## Valwin (Feb 18, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > i know is konami but every company half ass it at the end  juts look at square
> ...



dint you see how lazy FF have become ?


----------



## emigre (Feb 18, 2012)

Because constantly experimenting with new battle systems is an act of laziness?


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2012)

Valwin said:


> dint you see how lazy FF have become ?


Explain in detail what you mean, because, excuse me, if I were to choose between mundane tapping of the Skip button on conversations in Final Fantasy 7 on the PSX, begging to get to the plot already rather then chatting with some random NPC for an hour about his personal issues that have nothing to do with the grand scheme of things and the fast-paced Crisis Core, or if I were to choose between the rather ugly yet nostalgic Final Fantasy 4 and it's particularily DASHING remake for the DS, then sorry for being a snob but I choose the newer games.


----------



## heartgold (Feb 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > *image*
> ...



Why do you assume all Nintendo fans do? No really, someone who may like Nintendo for their quality software e.g lets say me and that makes me apathy towards graphics now?

Anyway, thanks for stating the obvious, my objective was to compare snake's visuals from PS2 TO 3DS. But ok let me state another obvious they forgot to mention the game can be played 3D, 3D is beautiful, amazing sense of depth and it's very pleasing to the eyes.


----------



## Valwin (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > dint you see how lazy FF have become ?
> ...



i guess you play RPG for the mindless button smashing  o well


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > i know is konami but every company half ass it at the end  juts look at square
> ...



Maybe I should rephrase to say "not enough games that interest me".  I've thought about getting a 360 during sales before, but then I look at the games and its not worth it for the few I would want to play.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> i guess you play RPG for the mindless button smashing  o well


There's a difference between proper plot development and shop keepers telling me about their cat catching bloody flu.

You know what's the basis of a good story? *Stuff* has to *happen* in it. Alot of early JRPG games had so much padding that you could sleep on the cartridge, using it as a pillow and you'd be relatively comfortable - all of that added just to artificially extend the story that really wasn't so complex - bunch of heroes goes on an adventure, gets a few crystals of light, goes to dungeons and defeats bosses. That's it - that's the extent of story development in most early Final Fantasy titles.

Square *fixed* that by giving their protagonists something that's called *character* in their later games, and god bless them for that. Don't accuse me of button-mashing if you don't know my video game tastes - I just dislike having to read stuff that shouldn't be in the game in the first place. There's one-line fillers and there's elaborate exposition featuring a woman by the stove telling us how _she burned her meal and her husband goes back home soon, because you know, he works at a dairy farm *half an hour later* You recieve 1x Lump of Cheese!_*

*_not an actual event from a JRPG, but might as well be one, seems close enough._


----------



## Deleted-236924 (Feb 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> > No idea why people would get this if they have a PS3/360 anyway.
> ...


That is irrelevant, since prowler_ specifically mentioned that it would be assumed that the person would already have a PS3/360.


----------



## DSGamer64 (Feb 19, 2012)

I dunno, I am not seeing any of these "FPS drops" and to be honest, I can see a game running better off it's cartridge rather then the SD card.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 19, 2012)

So many mixed impressions on the game. I'll wait until it's released before judging it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Dark Langin said:


> @emigre read foxi's post, your a true gamer when you own a ps3 or 360? 0.o long live Kinect and ps Move!!


While I agree that you don't have to own home consoles to be a gamer (duh! The name says it all - the only condition is "playing games" as a hobby), I'd still get the trilogy on the Vita first just because I want it on a bigger screen and bundled with two other titles. 

...on the other hand... I'd probably get both...  Just cause.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 19, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> I dunno, I am not seeing any of these "FPS drops" and to be honest, I can see a game running better off it's cartridge rather then the SD card.



The frame rate drop isn't from data loading from the cards, which is usually done in between scenes. It most likely involves the GPU. Whether that is from the GPU unable to handle the load, or that the method for loading data from RAM onto the GPU is unoptimized. MGS3D is a visual marvel, but it is also derived from the original PS2 version, which is quite different in terms of hardware.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> DSGamer64 said:
> 
> 
> > I dunno, I am not seeing any of these "FPS drops" and to be honest, I can see a game running better off it's cartridge rather then the SD card.
> ...


If I recall correctly, Nintendo hasn't exactly "unleashed" the full firepower of the 3DS just yet, much like Sony did with the PSP in the early days. It's entirely possible that future firmware updates will resolve this issue.


----------



## Thesolcity (Feb 19, 2012)

I thought the no 3D was "Attention-to-Detail" since Snake loses an eye. *YOU* try having depth perception with one eye.


----------



## prowler (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > DSGamer64 said:
> ...


what
????
that's not true.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> I thought the no 3D was "Attention-to-Detail" since Snake loses an eye. *YOU* try having depth perception with one eye.


Only one more orifice to hide cigarettes in. Solid Snake wasn't so lucky.



prowler_ said:


> what
> ????
> that's not true.


Is so. Pre-3.50 PSP firmwares did not allow developers to use 333Mhz as a frequency for the CPU. Before its release it was capped at 222Mhz *probably* to preserve battery life, but nobody's really sure as to why Sony did it.

Of course Dark_Alex unlocked it earlier then Sony did, but we're talking about OFW here.


----------



## Midna (Feb 19, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> I thought the no 3D was "Attention-to-Detail" since Snake loses an eye. *YOU* try having depth perception with one eye.


...
I would laugh so hard if the game disabled 3D after Snake loses his eye


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 19, 2012)

There's some mixed reactions online. I'll personally wait for the actual game to be out first + more reviews to surface.

If this is true, then meh. First MGS game which I'm not buying.


----------



## DarkShadow96 (Feb 19, 2012)

Sucks. 

I really want to play MGS3 since I never got to play it before but then since the framerate issue may still be there... =/

I was thinking of getting the PS3 version but I really want to play it on a handheld since I only have one game for the 3DS LOL.


----------



## Ssx9 (Feb 19, 2012)

Midna said:


> Thesolcity said:
> 
> 
> > I thought the no 3D was "Attention-to-Detail" since Snake loses an eye. *YOU* try having depth perception with one eye.
> ...


They forgot to turn 3D off in First person mode for knife.
But yeah, it's better they did that now than during midgame.


----------



## Midna (Feb 19, 2012)

Ssx9 said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Thesolcity said:
> ...


But Snake only loses that eye some ways into the game. He certainly still has it during the demo.


----------



## Rock Raiyu (Feb 19, 2012)

That's quite a shame. I'm still going to pick it up because of the Metal Gear fanboy in me. But seriously Kojima?


----------



## Janthran (Feb 19, 2012)

heartgold said:


> On the bright side Snake's face has higher polygons than the original. The environment however has a slight lower polygon count, obviously the 3DS is much more capable.
> 
> It's lazy remake or they didn't spend enough time on it, I don't know whether the 3DS is port friendly as it's not a powerful system so unless games are built from scratch they won't be able to show the system capabilities.
> 
> sniiiip


My thoughts when the original


----------



## saberjoy (Feb 19, 2012)

> While I agree that you don't have to own home consoles to be a gamer (duh! The name says it all - the only condition is "playing games" as a hobby), I'd still get the trilogy on the Vita first just because I want it on a bigger screen and bundled with two other titles.


just pointing out but the screen looks much bigger ( ireally dont know why) when seen in full 3d, i am not just speculating and one has to play the demo again while keeping this in mind to realise the size change.
your other point still holds though


----------



## Midna (Feb 19, 2012)

saberjoy said:


> > While I agree that you don't have to own home consoles to be a gamer (duh! The name says it all - the only condition is "playing games" as a hobby), I'd still get the trilogy on the Vita first just because I want it on a bigger screen and bundled with two other titles.
> 
> 
> just pointing out but the screen looks much bigger ( ireally dont know why) when seen in full 3d, i am not just speculating and one has to play the demo again while keeping this in mind to realise the size change.
> your other point still holds though


The screen actually does display more in 3D mode. The effective resolution doubles I guess.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Midna said:


> The screen actually does display more in 3D mode. The effective resolution doubles I guess.


The resolution of the screen remains the same, but the screen is cut in two halves that are then interlinked. It doesn't show "more".

Effectively this means that it runs in somewhat-800x240 (400x240, but made of rectangular pixels so hey - it's still crispier XD) in 2D mode and (somewhat-2x400)x240 in 3D mode. Seeing "more" or "less" is just an optical illusion.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 19, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> > Who the hell would pay $250+ for a Vita with a small library currently and not buy a $200 Xbox 360 or a $250 PS3. Like seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> The statement is still true, yes?



Yeah, it's true. But for everyone who already has  HD console then it's fair game. Honestly, at this time, if I had around $300-$350 and I didn't own a Xbox 360, I'd be choosing the Xbox 360 or PS3 over the Vita.



Foxi4 said:


> Is so. Pre-3.50 PSP firmwares did not allow developers to use 333Mhz as a frequency for the CPU. Before its release it was capped at 222Mhz *probably* to preserve battery life, but nobody's really sure as to why Sony did it.
> 
> Of course Dark_Alex unlocked it earlier then Sony did, but we're talking about OFW here.



I thought it was just a matter of choice. The higher CPU drained the battery pretty badly. Plus while games that used it (like God of War) looked really good, it's not like it was a huge leap from the games with a capped CPU. Noticeable, yes, but entirely necessary? Not really. I don't think the 3DS "unlocked" will be doubling how good its games look.



DiscostewSM said:


> Yes, let generalize groups like it's some fact, like how people generalize PS3 and XBox360 owners for being graphics whores.



I honestly see so many people go "Well graphics don't matter, only gameplay counts" than "FUCK YEAH THE GRAPHICS ARE AMAZING YOUR WII IS SHIT". As much as everyone thinks "graphics don't matter" I doubt half of us would play the games out nowadays if they had PS2-quality graphics. I won't lie, I enjoy good graphics and to some extent it's a selling point. Not THE selling point, but a good looking game really helps immersion and looking at something pleasant while playing a game doesn't hurt. It helps create breathtaking environments and sets, which creates moments that makes games awesome.


----------



## BoxmanWTF (Feb 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Who the hell would pay $180-$250 for a 3DS with a small library currently and not buy a $200 Xbox 360 or a $250 PS3. Like seriously.


well, I'm going to boarding school and buying a home console now wouldn't make any sense since I can't bring it with me.
Hence why I got a 3DS over a ps3, or 360


----------



## AlanJohn (Feb 19, 2012)

This wouldn't exist if they just re-made the game from scratch instead of just copy-and-pasting.


----------



## FireGrey (Feb 19, 2012)

I tried the demo and thought the controls were horrible..
This shouldn't of been remade onto the 3DS, they should of made a new one, that way they could design it specifically for a HANDHELD.
If I ever wanted to get the game I would definetely get the HD Collection thing rather than the 3DS version.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I thought it was just a matter of choice. The higher CPU drained the battery pretty badly. Plus while games that used it (like God of War) looked really good, it's not like it was a huge leap from the games with a capped CPU. Noticeable, yes, but entirely necessary? Not really. I don't think the 3DS "unlocked" will be doubling how good its games look.


I'd say that unlocking previously unavailable 1/3 of the CPU's raw horsepower is quite a step forwards. ;P But yes, the 3DS probably has a similar mechanism built-in, otherwise it'd gobble up the whole battery even faster then it does now.



> I honestly see so many people go "Well graphics don't matter, only gameplay counts" than "FUCK YEAH THE GRAPHICS ARE AMAZING YOUR WII IS SHIT". As much as everyone thinks "graphics don't matter"* I doubt half of us would play the games out nowadays if they had PS2-quality graphics*. I won't lie,* I enjoy good graphics and to some extent it's a selling point*. Not THE selling point, but *a good looking game really helps immersion and looking at something pleasant while playing a game doesn't hurt*. It helps create *breathtaking environments and sets*, which *create*s* moments that makes games awesome*.


Yes, yes, yes and yes once more.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> FireGrey said:
> 
> 
> > I tried the demo and thought the controls were horrible..
> ...



He said the game shouldn't have been remade and they should have instead made an entire new game, not that it should've been remade


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > FireGrey said:
> ...


Errata, I am blind lol.

Can't argue with that, I'm a well-known member of the Anti-Portendo 3DS movement lol.


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I honestly see so many people go "Well graphics don't matter, only gameplay counts" than "FUCK YEAH THE GRAPHICS ARE AMAZING YOUR WII IS SHIT". As much as everyone thinks "graphics don't matter" I doubt half of us would play the games out nowadays if they had PS2-quality graphics. I won't lie, I enjoy good graphics and to some extent it's a selling point. Not THE selling point, but a good looking game really helps immersion and looking at something pleasant while playing a game doesn't hurt. It helps create breathtaking environments and sets, which creates moments that makes games awesome.


No, I see people saying that graphics doesn't matter to the point it is > gameplay, you just keep changing it to that.
People still go back to the past system games such as PS2 and ds, so why not?
It not like a devs always use the full power of systems now a days anyway.
Also, I'm pretty sure sometimes they can weaken or/and shorten games
as well.

I'm just saying that every game doesn't have to be high-end graphics to be a good/great game.



Anyway, I just happen to see this on this site.
* EDGE: Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D looks better than the HD version*



> Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D’s visuals have gotten a lot of flack ever since Konami shared the first screenshots and footage of the game. Fans criticized its seemingly textures, poor frame rate, and overall disappointing graphics.
> In the end, it seems that Kojima Productions was able to pull things together. Details have started to emerge from EDGE’s review of Snake Eater 3D, and the magazine was apparently more than impressed with the studio’s work on the title’s visuals. EDGE went as far as to say that “the HD update doesn’t look as good as this portable treatment.”
> EDGE wrote in its review:
> *“Packed with detail, both in terms of it’s environments and mechanics, this is a game that pays back investment in spades. MGS3 is a moden classic – the tighest, smartest and most emotional journey in the series – and even the HD update doesn’t look as good as this portable treatment.”*
> EDGE gave Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D an 8/10. You can find more scores from the magazine’s latest issue *here*


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Feb 19, 2012)

To be honest, this game did not seem interesting at all ever since first announced. It looked waaay too slow. I played Peace Walker so I was hoping it'd be be at least as smooth, if not prettier than that, but it looks a tad bit worse and is slower. Shame.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> To be honest, this game did not seem interesting at all ever since first announced. It looked waaay too slow. I played Peace Walker so I was hoping it'd be be at least as smooth, if not prettier than that, but it looks a tad bit worse and is slower. Shame.


Yeah, Peace Walker is quite the experience. It's going to be hard to top that game, it was really well-tailored for portables, not to mention impressive.


----------



## shakirmoledina (Feb 19, 2012)

for soo much graphics even a system for which the game was made is not able to handle it
reminds me of the argument when epic came out that graphics are overdone since they do not consider the system that is going to play it. why make a game that shows u everything upto your char's acne while your computer does not ahve enough power to handle it.
ff13 was the best example of great graphics while keeping frame rate at max.

it seems like the way this has been ported is as if ur playing pcsx2 with 4x filter on the 3ds.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 19, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> To be honest, this game did not seem interesting at all ever since first announced. It looked waaay too slow. I played Peace Walker so I was hoping it'd be be at least as smooth, if not prettier than that, but it looks a tad bit worse and is slower. Shame.


From what I've seen, it looks better than Peace Walker. Didn't Peace Walker have a lot of frame-rate issues too, though?


----------



## prowler (Feb 19, 2012)

soulx said:


> From what I've seen, it looks better than Peace Walker. Didn't Peace Walker have a lot of frame-rate issues too, though?


Nope, multiplayer was capped at a lower fps though, it wasn't noticeable that much - I completed the whole of story mode on co-op.

But you can't comment, you don't own a PSP/Played Peace Walker so shoo Nintendo fanboy.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 19, 2012)

prowler_ said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > From what I've seen, it looks better than Peace Walker. Didn't Peace Walker have a lot of frame-rate issues too, though?
> ...


:c



DiscostewSM said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > But it doesn't matter since Nintendo fans pride themselves on having incredibly apathy towards graphics, right?
> ...


True graphics whores wouldn't own a PS3/360 with all that aliasing, low quality textures and sub-HD resolution.


----------



## heartgold (Feb 19, 2012)

soulx said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest, this game did not seem interesting at all ever since first announced. It looked waaay too slow. I played Peace Walker so I was hoping it'd be be at least as smooth, if not prettier than that, but it looks a tad bit worse and is slower. Shame.
> ...


Visually yes it's better than peace walker but i can't say the same for the framerate.


----------



## ForteGospel (Feb 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I honestly see so many people go "Well graphics don't matter, only gameplay counts" than "FUCK YEAH THE GRAPHICS ARE AMAZING YOUR WII IS SHIT". As much as everyone thinks "graphics don't matter" I doubt half of us would play the games out nowadays if they had PS2-quality graphics. I won't lie, I enjoy good graphics and to some extent it's a selling point. Not THE selling point, but a good looking game really helps immersion and looking at something pleasant while playing a game doesn't hurt. It helps create breathtaking environments and sets, which creates moments that makes games awesome.


im sorry but i would have to disagree with you, gameplay comes before graphics, then storyline, then music and sound and only by the end the graphics.

it would not be possible to get immersed into a game like resident evil, silent hill or fear without the proper music, try playing it with mario like music.

it would not be possible to finish a game like FF6/7/8/9 without the storyline by your standards, i mean look at FF7! if you didnt wanted to bitch slap the fucking up of sephiroth after killing aerith

it would not be possible for most of the indie games to be successfully if they didnt had good gameplay, most of the time they dont have good graphics and lack of a storyline

and i would rather play any day devil may cry 1, 2 and 3 over 4 even if it has better graphics


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

ForteGospel said:


> im sorry but i would have to disagree with you, gameplay comes before graphics, then storyline, then music and sound and only by the end the graphics.


Oh yeah, definatelly. That's why Rougelike games are so popular nowadays.

No. All elements of a "good game" need to be in balance. You need to have good story, catchy music, well-executed gameplay mechanics and graphics that are not sub-par to today's standards to make a smashing hit, and that's that.



> it would not be possible to get immersed into a game like resident evil, silent hill or fear without the proper music, try playing it with mario like music.


That just sounds horrible, it would distract me from the story beyond measure. What's the point of playing a horror game when you don't have horror music to accompany it? The feeling of terror immediatelly evaporates and the game becomes "meh". It's the MUSIC that made games like Silent Hill great - it's a vital part, one of the most important ones actually.



> it would not be possible to finish a game like FF6/7/8/9 without the storyline by your standards, i mean look at FF7! if you didnt wanted to bitch slap the fucking up of sephiroth after killing aerith


All of those games would be quite difficult to finish if you don't follow the storyline, mainly because you wouldn't have a clue where to go next.



> it would not be possible for most of the indie games to be successfully if they didnt had good gameplay, most of the time they dont have good graphics and lack of a storyline


And don't sell and then whine about low profits.



> and i would rather play any day devil may cry 1, 2 and 3 over 4 even if it has better graphics.


Sure, but its other parts are out of balance - that's why you don't like it.

What really matters in games is the harmony of all their elements. Sometimes people use retro graphics and retro music in their games, but that's stylization and a specific case, not the general rule. I know this is your opinion, however embrace the opinions of others aswell rather then dismissing them as Guild has alot of good points.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 19, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> > *"...**even the HD update doesn’t look as good as this portable treatment...”*



Of what looks better is subjective. While the HD versions improve in some areas from the original (like increased resolution, cleaned-up/sharper textures, etc), the 3DS version improves in other areas (like the use of shaders, effects like 3D, re-done models/textures, etc). Both don't follow the same route for improvements, and some will like one route more than the other and vice versa.



ForteGospel said:


> it would not be possible to get immersed into a game like resident evil, silent hill or fear without the proper music, try playing it with mario like music.



*infected dog bursts through the window*
*kills you*
*cue Mario death music*

MAMA MIA!!!


----------



## Midna (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > The screen actually does display more in 3D mode. The effective resolution doubles I guess.
> ...



Play any game, and turn 3D on. Your field of view will literal expand and you will be able see things that were outside the camera's range before. Maybe that's an optical illusion.

Edit: Foxi, I think you've misunderstood ForteGospel's. 'Good game' dies not necessarily mean 'game that sells well'.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Midna said:


> 'Good game' dies not necessarily mean 'game that sells well'.


The two terms are not mutually exclusive though - good games tend to sell better then bad ones, that's a fact of life.  Also, why should I draw the connection to Indie if Gospel himself mentions only titles comming from "big" companies? I meant a general rule that applies to all games, regardless of their type.

That, and I'm pretty sure you know what I meant in my post anyways.


----------



## ForteGospel (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> What really matters in games is the harmony of all their elements. Sometimes people use retro graphics and retro music in their games, but that's stylization and a specific case, not the general rule. I know this is your opinion, however embrace the opinions of others aswell rather then dismissing them as Guild has alot of good points.


all i wanted to say is that graphics cannot be a selling point in any extent what so ever, and i think you got my message

also i was about to edit my post but ill just write this here

IMO (so no one will eat me alive)

music helps the immersion into the game

gameplay makes it fun to continue playing (and not actually frustrating you)

storyline helps you not getting bored of the game and gives you a reason to keep playing

graphics makes the game more beautiful and more authentic, its always good to have them, if they made games like chrono trigger with hi-res sprites and backgrounds no one would ever play the original one.
yet graphics will never be one of the most important selling points of a unique game (not a remake of w/e)


EDIT: @Foxi, i havent played to many indie games to actually name a few, only cave story, super meat boy and castle crashers i think those were the names >.>, but i still know that the good ones are actually popular


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 19, 2012)

While I think gameplay tops everything, the rest like graphics, music, sound, story, etc all share the same spot.


----------



## heartgold (Feb 19, 2012)

Midna said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Midna said:
> ...



Yeah even if it's an optical illusion, the screen looks wider than you play in plain 2D mode, I was testing it on the demo version, when you slide the 3D slider up, more images appear on both the left and the right side of the screen and not to mention the incredible depth you get too.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 19, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Yeah even if it's an optical illusion, the screen looks wider than you play in plain 2D mode, I was testing it on the demo version, when you slide the 3D slider up, more images appear on both the left and the right side of the screen and not to mention the incredible depth you get too.


It's due to the use of rectangular, wide pixels as I said earlier.

You see the same image, however your field of view narrows in 3D mode. In 2D mode, the whole pixel displays one uniform color, in 3D mode it is divided into two separate partitions, effectively narrowing th FOV and making you feel like you're getting deeper into the displayed image.

It's hard to describe it without drawing it lol.


----------



## Deleted User (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm fucking disappointed, I hate everything about the 3d version, Controls suck, Camera FOV is bad, frame-rate is bad


----------



## heartgold (Feb 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah even if it's an optical illusion, the screen looks wider than you play in plain 2D mode, I was testing it on the demo version, when you slide the 3D slider up, more images appear on both the left and the right side of the screen and not to mention the incredible depth you get too.
> ...


Yep, I wouldn't say feel though, you do see the extra image outside the camera range that isn't visible in 2D mode.


----------



## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 19, 2012)

A remake in substance, but an inferior port in essence. I never saw _that_ coming.


----------



## Midna (Feb 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah even if it's an optical illusion, the screen looks wider than you play in plain 2D mode, I was testing it on the demo version, when you slide the 3D slider up, more images appear on both the left and the right side of the screen and not to mention the incredible depth you get too.
> ...


So what you're saying is that the pixels are split in half, effectively doubling the resolution
*runs*


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 20, 2012)

LOL, oh, Midna, Midna...  Okay, this is how it works on a more physical example. Imagine that you have two sheets of transparent plastic, you mark each of them with a marker - one with a horizontal and one with a vertical line. If you stack them neatly, the resulting image will be a cross. Now, if you take one sheet with one hand and the other one in your other hand and keep each sheet over one eye and hit the exact sweetspot of vision, you will see the exact same cross. The sheets didn't change their physical properties - it's just your perception that's a factor here. There is a fixed ammount of pixels on the screen, however those pixels may display the same image in two different ways. The rest is done by the brain. Having one pixel display the same image in 2 directions doesn't equal having 2 pixels, but it's close enough, I suppose... =P PS: Sorry for the lack of formatting in my post, I'm browsing on my psp.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 20, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> No, I see people saying that graphics doesn't matter to the point it is > gameplay, you just keep changing it to that.
> People still go back to the past system games such as PS2 and ds, so why not?
> It not like a devs always use the full power of systems now a days anyway.
> Also, I'm pretty sure sometimes they can weaken or/and shorten games
> ...



Games don't need great graphics but they help. Not to mention games for the PS2 and DS were designed with their system's limits in mind, as are games on the Xbox 360 and PS3. They won't design a major awe-inspiring moment in a game if the graphics can't handle it.

I'll take Red Dead Redemption as an example. I think the graphics are absolutely gorgeous, some of the best I've seen. And they use them well. They realized that the game relies a lot on "ambience". So you may find yourself in the middle of the plains only to find a beautiful sunset on the backdrop of an "endless frontier". Try doing that on a PS2.

Or another open world game like Skyrim. One of the coolest things about Skyrim was its world. Everything is there. There's no pop ins for characters or buildings, no fog so your line of sight is limited to a fuzzy wall of grey, it's all there. One time I was going up the Throat of the World or whatever it's called and I noticed this huge structure below. I checked my map and I realized it was a large crypt I visited earlier in the game. And that it was quite a ways away from where I was standing. And it hit me that, if I wanted to, I could run down that mountain to that crypt again without it magically popping in or stuck with texture pop ins.

Also, you're saying the power of systems "weakens and/or shortens" games? Are you serious? Correct me if I'm wrong but it's the exact opposite. Even the "5 hour Call of Duty games" still have thousands of hours of multiplayer opportunity. Single player games can now have larger worlds with higher graphics and more content with larger storage mediums. Plus with DLC, they can now add on to a game with additional content that wouldn't make the final cut on the actual game (if you're a good dev). Also, good devs use a system to its fullest. If you have a high budget and develop well then you'll be able to create something spectacular. If you don't, it'll be Duke Nukem Forever or something.

Graphics are a big point for me though. Any dev, regardless of budget, should be able to generate good graphics. If it's a lower budget game, then you make stylized graphics like Cave Story for example. If you have high budget then you make the Red Dead Redemptions or Skyrims of gaming. Gameplay, graphics, story, and sound are four parts of a game, and if you're lacking in one then your game is lacking, no matter how you look at it.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Feb 20, 2012)

dam...I was showing my friends this demo and bitching about the framerate and they said "meh, the final build will have better framerate. I's probably the old E3 version build demo blah blah"

wait until I tell them this...

there is no excuse for this, RE: Revelations had very little if not ANY FPS lag at all even on 3D.


----------



## granville (Feb 20, 2012)

I haven't read the entire topic but i will add something in regards to this game-

I don't need great graphics to enjoy a game whatsoever. But i will say without hesitation that i expect a game like this to look and run at least as well as the original, considering that the 3DS is much more powerful than the original system. The fact that Snake Eater 3D is exhibiting framerate issues far worse than the original with graphics only very slightly better than the original (and in some cases, considerably worse) is just telling on how polished the effort was overall.

This game is held so accountable because it's essentially almost the same as the PS2 release. With a new game, the comparisons you can make to other games are more limited and less fair, due to various art style choices (Mario 3D Land for example, called for minimalistic graphics due to the design choices). But here, we've got a PS2 game made to function on the 3DS with little in terms of changes. People are going to compare the visuals and framerate, and there are valid complaints to make. Especially when you consider the 3DS version performs worse than the original, despite it running on more advanced hardware (with little to nothing in terms of visual improvements). People aren't being graphics whores for pointing out the flaws in this game. They're holding Konami accountable for a general lack of polish when they had more than enough time and hardware power to make this game at least run as well as the PS2 version.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 20, 2012)

granville said:


> I haven't read the entire topic but i will add something in regards to this game-
> 
> I don't need great graphics to enjoy a game whatsoever. But i will say without hesitation that i expect a game like this to look and run at least as well as the original, considering that the 3DS is much more powerful than the original system. The fact that Snake Eater 3D is exhibiting framerate issues far worse than the original with graphics only very slightly better than the original (and in some cases, considerably worse) is just telling on how polished the effort was overall.
> 
> This game is held so accountable because it's essentially almost the same as the PS2 release. With a new game, the comparisons you can make to other games are more limited and less fair, due to various art style choices (Mario 3D Land for example, called for minimalistic graphics due to the design choices). But here, we've got a PS2 game made to function on the 3DS with little in terms of changes. People are going to compare the visuals and framerate, and there are valid complaints to make. Especially when you consider the 3DS version performs worse than the original, despite it running on more advanced hardware (with little to nothing in terms of visual improvements). People aren't being graphics whores for pointing out the flaws in this game. They're holding Konami accountable for a general lack of polish when they had more than enough time and hardware power to make this game at least run as well as the PS2 version.


Except that the 3DS version looks noticeably better than the PS2 game.

Look at this.










This is from an old build yet it still looks significantly better. The textures aren't muddy anymore and Snake's character model looks great. It should also be noted that the PS2 version also had a lot of framerate issues (primarily in cutscenes). We've only seen a small part of the game so we can't exactly be sure as to whether the game is plagued by framerate drops. And even then, it only appears to happen in cutscenes. It's perfectly playable in the actual game.

As for the IGN videos, they only show cutscenes and have no gameplay footage.

Reviewers that have played through everything (including EDGE which is notorious for their strict reviews) have lauded the game and have said that most of the issues have been fixed. Unless Konami has been _moneyhatting_ everyone, I'm inclined to believe them.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Feb 20, 2012)

soulx said:


> This is from an old build yet it still looks significantly better. The textures aren't muddy anymore and Snake's character model looks great. It should also be noted that the PS2 version also had a lot of framerate issues (primarily in cutscenes). We've only seen a small part of the game so we can't exactly be sure as to whether the game is plagued by framerate drops. And even then, it only appears to happen in cutscenes. It's perfectly playable in the actual game.
> 
> As for the IGN videos, they only show cutscenes and have no gameplay footage.
> 
> Reviewers that have played through everything (including EDGE which is notorious for their strict reviews) have lauded the game and have said that most of the issues have been fixed. Unless Konami has been _moneyhatting_ everyone, I'm inclined to believe them.



If you want to look at it in another light, the 3DS version also has much more jaggies. It's a pretty common pay off for portable games. Like I've seen some PSP games that look better than PS2 games but they're still filled with jaggies. And on that note, why is it such a heralding accomplishment for the 3DS version to look slightly better than the PS2 version when we know the system can make games that put PS2 ones to shame? Maybe I'm not the biggest cheerleader for the 3DS but Revelations looks pretty good and better than any PS2 game I've played. You want top notch? Look at the Naked Snake demo. That was exceptional. This is... this.

Back on the jaggies though, it makes some lines a lot more defined (which aren't always good). Look at his shoulder in the images. On the 3DS version it looks like a lot of stiff lines. If I wanted to make an exaggerated opinion, I'd say it looks like the arm on an action figure, connected but still with a noticeable gap. The PS2 version is a lot smoother. Maybe the textures blur together a bit more on the PS2 version but it still makes all those "hard lines" and polygons a lot less noticeable.

When the final build is out, then we'll know. It's the framerate that matters.


----------



## Coto (Feb 20, 2012)

Hmmm... I tested the demo a day ago, and I have experienced worse framedrops in other games, like Zelda : OOT (N64) on dodongo cave (we're talking about 9-12fps) so it's not that bad anyway. This is the first time I put my hands on a MGS, and I liked it a bit.

Maybe a lot of you guys ask yourself, why X game run better on 3DS and Y doesn't? X games were developed from scratch, or the engine used was adapted/optimized to run under certain environment/arquitecture, while Y game I suspect was compiled using some SDK and the engine developed was focused on different/another/higher-end arquitecture, meaning it still needs some polishing for 3DS.

Nonetheless the game looks quite nice, even without 3D and the controls aren't as bad as I though they would be, except camera movement (why wasn't touchscreen compatible?)


----------



## granville (Feb 20, 2012)

I would have to say those "improvements" are marginal at best. The face textures are better, but that's about it. Color contrast is what is causing the visuals to seem like they're better overall. And there's an area i'd say it's improved somewhat (though it's less noticeable on the 3DS screen than my laptop's). You're right in it being an older build, but i haven't even spotted many improvements on newer builds. Normal mapping probably being the most notable one, and that's only applied to characters (and not all of them). Just as many people who own the game are saying it's worse than the original as better.

You can see though that the character model in the 3DS version is built with fewer polygons. The shoulder, chin, and neck on Snake are more blocky than the PS2 version because it's a lower polygon model overall. Ingame, grass is much less dense and doesn't appear unless you're within about 5 feet from it (it pops into view because the game apparently can't render as much of the grass). And of course, the game cannot maintain a decent framerate. The PS2 had some minor choppiness as well, but it NEVER dropped nearly as bad as the 3DS version. The game was also pushing the PS2 pretty much to its limits, the weakest system of last generation. The 3DS is a far more powerful system, capable of graphics rivaling even the Wii and Xbox (and surpassing them in terms of shaders). Even with enhanced visuals it should be able to outperform the PS2 version by far. What good are slightly better visuals if the game performs like utter ass? And that's still the real problem, the framerate. The got a lot more out of the system with the Naked Sample, which ran at a buttery smooth framerate.

I assume you also know that the 3DS screen you posted is twice that of the actual game or what the 3DS can render. Doesn't matter though, the core assets are what i'm talking about.

@Coto

Ironically, i'd say MGS3D performs pretty similarly ingame to Ocarina of Time on N64, in terms of framerate. The issue with your comments about games needing to be coded from scratch to get the most out of the system is that Kojima claims that MGS3D is a remake, not a port, and is built from the ground up and optimized for the 3DS-
http://gbatemp.net/topic/314658-kojima-says-mgs3d-is-a-remake-created-from-scratch-for-3ds/


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 20, 2012)

granville said:


> I would have to say those "improvements" are marginal at best. The face textures are better, but that's about it. You're right in it being an older build, but i haven't even spotted many improvements on newer builds. Normal mapping probably being the most notable one, and that's only applied to characters (and not all of them).
> 
> You can see though that the character model in the 3DS version is built with fewer polygons. The shoulder, chin, and neck on Snake are more blocky than the PS2 version because it's a lower polygon model. Ingame, grass is much less dense and doesn't appear unless you're within about 5 feet from it (pop in). And of course, the game cannot maintain a decent framerate. The PS2 had some choppiness as well, but it never dropped nearly as bad as the 3DS version. The game was also pushing the PS2 pretty much to its limits, the weakest system of last generation. The 3DS is a far more powerful system, capable of graphics rivaling even the Wii and Xbox (and surpassing them in terms of shaders). Even with enhanced visuals it should be able to outperform the PS2 version by far. What good are slightly better visuals if the game performs like utter ass? And that's still the real problem, the framerate.
> 
> I assume you also know that the 3DS screen you posted is twice that of the actual game or what the 3DS can render. Doesn't matter though, the core assets are what i'm talking about.


Yeah, Snake does appear to be made out of less polygons but he still does look significantly better. Even in the demo, I could notice that the environmental textures (such as the trees) looked much better than the blurry mess found in the PS2 version. And given that the demo was probably compressed to ensure a low file-size, the textures should look even better on the final game.

I do agree that the grass pop-in is horrible, though. I don't know why Konami took away the grass geometry from the original and replaced them with those ugly blades. I dunno, maybe that changes in the final build.

Given that the game was not built from the ground-up (regardless of all the crap Kojima said about it being a remake), it's not too surprising that it isn't a really large leap over the PS2 version. They have to deal with porting it over to a system with a different architecture and what not. Even so, I still think the game does look noticeably better than the PS2 version is practically all aspects.

The frame-rate is perfectly fine in actual gameplay, as I said earlier. Cut-scenes appear to run at ~25FPS which is probably all the more noticeable (than in the PS2 ver.) thanks to the lack of motion-blur. In some cut-scenes (forest ones in particular), it's been said that the 3DS version actually runs at a better framerate.

And yeah, I'm aware that the screens are at a higher res.



Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > This is from an old build yet it still looks significantly better. The textures aren't muddy anymore and Snake's character model looks great. It should also be noted that the PS2 version also had a lot of framerate issues (primarily in cutscenes). We've only seen a small part of the game so we can't exactly be sure as to whether the game is plagued by framerate drops. And even then, it only appears to happen in cutscenes. It's perfectly playable in the actual game.
> ...


I would say that the jaggies on his arm have less to do with aliasing and more to do with a low polygon count. It is an old comparison (June 2011) so this may have already fixed. And I don't really see anyone claiming that it's a "heralding accomplishment" that the 3DS ver. looks better than the PS2 game.

But yeah, the game is out tomorrow. We'll know about the final build, then.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 20, 2012)

soulx said:


> The textures aren't muddy anymore


It was sort of charming... ;P He looked younger too, which made sense.


> Snake's character model looks great.


It looks really jaggedy in my opinion.

Differences are to be expected though - the remake was made from the ground-up and some issues will surely be replaced by others. Truth to be told, I don't think slight graphical imperfections will not be all that aparent on the small screen - unsteady framerate is a good reason to worry though... That said, Peace Walker has framerate issues aswell and it's still enjoyable. If all the aspects of the game will be well-balanced and the experience will be enjoyable, I can overlook tiny issues.


----------



## Coto (Feb 20, 2012)

@*granville:*

Then Kojima (and the 3DS MGS Team) didn't do a good job in the demo. How then did Nintendo manage to do a 60FPS Mario Kart 7 3D Mode? At least, SFIV engine was focused to the handheld market and to be frank, on 2D Mode it performs quite well except the background stages

I see they would call them a "remake" because the 3DS and the PS2 arquitecture are *completely* different, and this game had to be "remade" to fit on the 3DS hardware. But the engine isn't as good as it should be, or the MGS team doesn't have mayor experience with handhelds. They *should polish *the MGS engine on handhelds. Think about it, once it's done, you could tweak it, add features, etc. Gamefreak has been doing this for ages since the 1st gen Pocket Monster Series.. and it would sell pretty fine.

If the Vita manages to run fine this game, then we can all see it wasn't a hardware limitation, but developer laziness...

Anyway, the game's pretty nice and Nintendo's low hardware specs tradition could bring a lot of trouble to 3ds party developer... once again.


----------



## granville (Feb 20, 2012)

To be fair, the Vita is notably more powerful than the 3DS. It would be even more pathetic if that handheld couldn't run the game (i dunno if it has any lag, if so then lame). However, the 3DS is by no means at a disadvantage in regards to MGS3. At the very least, the 3DS is far and above the PS2's power. In proper hands, the game could have run at least at a constant 30fps or higher, along with a massive improvement in visuals with nothing having to be cut. There is no excuse for it running the way it is.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 20, 2012)

I honestly don't believe that MGS3D was done from scratch. Maybe some parts were (like those things that weren't in the original), but to say the entire thing was done from the ground up does not sound plausible when looking at the final product. We've seen games that were built from the ground up (like RE:E, MK7, even the Naked Snake demo), but considering they were also working on the HD versions (which is the reason I believe why the 3DS got a *port* and not an entirely new game like we thought we'd get), the focus became taking what they had, and using it as-is. Konami pulled out all the stops when optimizing MGS3 for the PS2, that many of the tricks they did there can't be done on other hardware as easily without spending more processing cycles to mimic it. The HD versions are running on more powerful devices, which allows them to make mistakes in optimization but have plenty of processing power to not worry about it. The 3DS is more powerful than the PS2, but not by leaps and bounds like the other devices are, and for porting such a game, it is more susceptible to having more problems.

Anyways, I played through the demo, and it was mainly during the dense forest cutscene areas that had the frame rate issues, while actual gameplay seemed to be rather steady in that regard. I had some Amazon credit, so I decided to buy the game (getting $10 pre-order credit from it too, which will go towards Kid Icarus). I needed more games for my 3DS.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 20, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> I honestly don't believe that MGS3D was done from scratch. Maybe some parts were (like those things that weren't in the original), but to say the entire thing was done from the ground up does not sound plausible when looking at the final product. We've seen games that were built from the ground up (like RE:E, MK7, even the Naked Snake demo), but considering they were also working on the HD versions (which is the reason I believe why the 3DS got a *port* and not an entirely new game like we thought we'd get), the focus became taking what they had, and using it as-is. Konami pulled out all the stops when optimizing MGS3 for the PS2, that many of the tricks they did there can't be done on other hardware as easily without spending more processing cycles to mimic it. The HD versions are running on more powerful devices, which allows them to make mistakes in optimization but have plenty of processing power to not worry about it. The 3DS is more powerful than the PS2, but not by leaps and bounds like the other devices are, and for porting such a game, it is more susceptible to having more problems.
> 
> Anyways, I played through the demo, and it was mainly during the dense forest cutscene areas that had the frame rate issues, while actual gameplay seemed to be rather steady in that regard. I had some Amazon credit, so I decided to buy the game (getting $10 pre-order credit from it too, which will go towards Kid Icarus). I needed more games for my 3DS.


The HD collection was outsourced to another developer. It wasn't by Konami.



granville said:


> To be fair, the Vita is notably more powerful than the 3DS. It would be even more pathetic if that handheld couldn't run the game (i dunno if it has any lag, if so then lame). However, the 3DS is by no means at a disadvantage in regards to MGS3. At the very least, the 3DS is far and above the PS2's power. In proper hands, the game could have run at least at a constant 30fps or higher, along with a massive improvement in visuals with nothing having to be cut. There is no excuse for it running the way it is.


I'm still curious as to whether the Vita is getting a straight MGS3 port or if it'll have some upgraded textures and character models like Snake Eater 3D. Konami could have used some of the models and textures from the Naked Sample demo in the Vita HD collection.

As for the framerate, MGS3 on the Vita should at least run on a fixed 30FPS. If it's 60, even better.


----------



## Zerosuit connor (Feb 20, 2012)

Why not release a polished game? After Bethesda admitted to knowing about the many Skyrim on Ps3 issues they released it! I would rather have a full game than  a half assed version!


----------



## DiscostewSM (Feb 20, 2012)

soulx said:


> The HD collection was outsourced to another developer. It wasn't by Konami.



Even still, the raw power of the devices running the HD versions can easily handle unoptimized routines of a past generation console, while the 3DS doesn't have that luxury without a total re-write, which I believe didn't happen here.


----------



## lenitao (Feb 20, 2012)

no more screenshot comparing please, you can compare Ps2 and Ps3 screens but not 3DS, because simply the game looks much better on full 3D than plain screenshots

also, i didn't notice any frame drop, i think the demo and it's graphics are great, especially while crowling


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 20, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > The HD collection was outsourced to another developer. It wasn't by Konami.
> ...


That doesn't invalidate what I said.


DiscostewSM said:


> but considering they were also working on the HD versions (which is the reason I believe why the 3DS got a *port* and not an entirely new game like we thought we'd get), the focus became taking what they had, and using it as-is.


The HD collection wasn't made by Konami. They weren't busy working on that.


----------

