# Sony Shares Tumble to 31 Year Low Amid Record Losses - BBC



## HamburgerBandit (May 12, 2012)

> *	Sony shares tumble to 31-year low amid record losses*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




More news at the source

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-18030939

So more bad news but this time with a silver lining. The company expects to return to profitablity this year after 4 long years of financial losses.

Everything rests on the sales of the PS3 and the Vita.


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## Flame (May 12, 2012)

If you think vita is going to save the sales of sony


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## HamburgerBandit (May 12, 2012)

Flame said:


> If you think vita is going to save the sales of sony



I love that ski instructor.

But seriously E3 is just a few weeks away. Lets see what happens.


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## FAST6191 (May 12, 2012)

Bugger I was doing nothing much for part of the earning statement day and I could have shorted them but didn't think to do so and just commented in the thread instead. Oh well guess it means I am not quite middle aged yet.


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## GreatZimkogway (May 12, 2012)

HamburgerBandit said:


> Flame said:
> 
> 
> > If you think vita is going to save the sales of sony
> ...



Anything short of a massive price drop is not going to help the Vita.  It's simply not worth the money.  All 3 current gen consoles are cheaper than it, as well as every worthwhile portable.


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## Fibrizo (May 12, 2012)

I think this must also be part of some news that were around the net about the vita been outsold on the west by the DS and I think I also hear that Nintendo is now worth more that Sony.


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2012)

alunral said:


> Anything short of a massive price drop is not going to help the Vita.  It's simply not worth the money.  All 3 current gen consoles are cheaper than it, as well as every worthwhile portable.


Except the Vita can't get any cheaper while remaining profitable at the same time - those quad core cpu's and gpu's cost quite a bit and considering the specs, the hardware is actually cheap.

Compare it to smartphones similar spec-wise - the Vita is half the price in comparison. Don't expect a massive price cut at least in a year's time, the chips have to get cheaper for the end product to do the same, and Sony factories were not the only ones that were hit by floods.

It's well-worth the money, it just hit the market though and requires software to back it up. Since that's on its way, I'd say that it won't be the underdog for long.


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## Rasas (May 12, 2012)

It might be half the price but I get more options with a smartphone compared to the Vita. Honestly if they made the Vita more like a smartphone like they did with the PS3 as a media center I would of bought one already and yes I know they added skype support.


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## Fibrizo (May 12, 2012)

Nintendo isn't even Sony's biggest competition. Panasonic, Samsung, Apple, LG, hell even fucking SHARP is just raping them in the electronics division, from televisions to music players, from headphones to cell phones.


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## GreatZimkogway (May 12, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> alunral said:
> 
> 
> > Anything short of a massive price drop is not going to help the Vita.  It's simply not worth the money.  All 3 current gen consoles are cheaper than it, as well as every worthwhile portable.
> ...



Well, it's the same thing that happened with the PS3.  Only in this case, the differences between a consolecomputer and portable are different.  Portable technology, like phones and stuff, simply are not ready for this, mostly gaming portables.  Software may give it a push, but because of the lack of any real software backing it up, I think it may just go the way of the Dreamcast and die.  It doesn't have nearly enough to make it worth it.

Not to mention that, for the price, you can get something that can do so much more than it.  $250-$300?  I can get an ASUS Transformer for that, and have a fully-featured, fully-functional, non-locked tablet.

The only reason the 3DS starting price was at all justifiable was that it had the DS library to back it up.  And even then, it still took a massive price drop before it picked up its steam.  That's why I think that the Vita's just going to flouder around until it's price becomes justifiable.

EDIT: No price drop = no real profits.  Price drop = still no profits.  I think they're fucked.  I could be wrong.  I would hope so.


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## Deleted User (May 12, 2012)

The problem with Sony right now is that they charge way too much for their products.

For example, an amazing 600 dollar Panasonic HDTV will cost about half the price of a Sony TV with the same specs.


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## Fibrizo (May 12, 2012)

brandonspikes said:


> The problem with Sony right now is that they charge way too much for their products.
> 
> For example, an amazing 600 dollar Panasonic HDTV will cost about half the price of a Sony TV with the same specs.



I think Sony even just released some headphones that sell for over $800. No one's going to fucking buy them because it's too ridiculous of a price, regardless of how good they are. Sony just doesn't get it.


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## gamefan5 (May 12, 2012)

I'm pretty sure Sony has a few tricks up it's sleeve so I wouldn't count them out just yet.


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## Deleted User (May 12, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> I'm pretty sure Sony has a few tricks up it's sleeve so I wouldn't count them out just yet.


Like good games? I'm waiting..


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## Crimsonclaw111 (May 12, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> I'm pretty sure Sony has a few tricks up it's sleeve so I wouldn't count them out just yet.


Even with a few tricks up their sleeve they can't possible save every division at once.


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## BloodyFlame (May 12, 2012)

Only thing that can save them now are people to hack the Vita and get some homebrew on that thing.


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## chyyran (May 13, 2012)

BloodyFlame said:


> Only thing that can save them now are people to hack the Vita and get some homebrew on that thing.



Ironic eh?


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## ferofax (May 13, 2012)

If Sony and Ericsson's partnership didn't end so soon, they might have been able to make the Vita as a full-fledged gaming smartphone, kinda like how the Xperia Play does for the PSP. that would have been so much win, a smart phone with actual game buttons and dual analogs with monster specs.

also, they should start bundling their TVs with PS3s (or the other way around). this should help their ridiculously expensive TVs into actually churning out some sales. hell, they should release a *TV with BUILT-IN PS2/PS3 capabilities*. no other company has done that, nor thought of it. only Sony is currently in a position to actually try something crazy like that, and crazy might just be what they need. that could be their new Walkman. sure, it'd be expensive, but hey, built-in PS3? so much win.


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## BloodyFlame (May 13, 2012)

Punyman said:


> BloodyFlame said:
> 
> 
> > Only thing that can save them now are people to hack the Vita and get some homebrew on that thing.
> ...


Yep, after suing a hacker partially responsible for jailbreaking the PS3, they now have to rely on hackers.


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## gamefan5 (May 13, 2012)

Crimsonclaw111 said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure Sony has a few tricks up it's sleeve so I wouldn't count them out just yet.
> ...


And where did I say that they can? I never said that they wouuld bounce quickly. Hell I know their financial losses are really bad.


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## Heran Bago (May 13, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> I'm pretty sure Sony has a few tricks up it's sleeve so I wouldn't count them out just yet.


They sure could have used those tricks the last four years.


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 13, 2012)

now the vita needs to be hacked, and that damn useless thing will actually be useful and sales will increase


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## Supreme Dirt (May 13, 2012)

Sony needs to FOCUS. They've spread themselves to far too many things, and it's starting to show. Games, music, televisions, everything... Sony's just got too much on their plate as a whole.

I also can't help but feel that this'll be used by too many people as some sort of 3DS vs Vita bait, which is a damn shame, since both handhelds have a lot of potential.


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## Crimsonclaw111 (May 13, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> Crimsonclaw111 said:
> 
> 
> > gamefan5 said:
> ...


I know you didn't. I was just saying is all.


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## Skelletonike (May 13, 2012)

ferofax said:


> If Sony and Ericsson's partnership didn't end so soon, they might have been able to make the Vita as a full-fledged gaming smartphone, kinda like how the Xperia Play does for the PSP. that would have been so much win, a smart phone with actual game buttons and dual analogs with monster specs.
> 
> also, they should start bundling their TVs with PS3s (or the other way around). this should help their ridiculously expensive TVs into actually churning out some sales. hell, they should release a *TV with BUILT-IN PS2/PS3 capabilities*. no other company has done that, nor thought of it. only Sony is currently in a position to actually try something crazy like that, and crazy might just be what they need. that could be their new Walkman. sure, it'd be expensive, but hey, built-in PS3? so much win.


Sony has been bundling PS3's with their TV's  for a few years now in my country... Back since the PS3 was 599€, if you bought one of their 1000€ TV's, you'd get a free PS3, it was a pretty sweet deal back then, they still have those deals, now with some 3D TV's I think? (I'm talking about in my country).


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## jonesman99 (May 13, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> ferofax said:
> 
> 
> > If Sony and Ericsson's partnership didn't end so soon, they might have been able to make the Vita as a full-fledged gaming smartphone, kinda like how the Xperia Play does for the PSP. that would have been so much win, a smart phone with actual game buttons and dual analogs with monster specs.
> ...



You are correct. They also had those same deals over here in america also, but because of the fact that they bundled their PS3s with the 3DTVs, and at the time there were like only 2-3 games on the system that actually supported it all, people felt that it wasn't worth it.

I hope Sony can get it together though, as their past products were not that bad, just that they were overpriced and not properly advertised to the average consumer (the middle class consumer).


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## Qtis (May 13, 2012)

Fibrizo said:


> I think Sony even just released some headphones that sell for over $800. No one's going to fucking buy them because it's too ridiculous of a price, regardless of how good they are. Sony just doesn't get it.


$800 dollar headphones aren't really even targeted at the normal consumer. Same goes to high-end audio devices in general. Hell I just bought 2.1 set for my TV and payed about 2200€ ($3000?) for it. I could have got a 5.1 system for about 1/20 of the price, but it's not the device (ie. 2.1 vs 5.1) that defines the price and what can be asked for it. Also Sony does make cheaper headphones ($20) too..



Skelletonike said:


> Sony has been bundling PS3's with their TV's  for a few years now in my country... Back since the PS3 was 599€, if you bought one of their 1000€ TV's, you'd get a free PS3, it was a pretty sweet deal back then, they still have those deals, now with some 3D TV's I think? (I'm talking about in my country).


We had some deals like "buy any Sony TV and get a PS3 + game for 69€" for quite a while. I'd have bought it if I hadn't bought a PS3 a year ago to replace my brother's PS3. If I'd had a bit more money at the time, I'd have bought a 46" or 55" Sony TV (via a friend's store) and a PS3 to boot for giggles 

I see the problem with Sony, but it's a bit global in the electronics business. Just look at Apple (almost bankrupt in early 2000's, now one of the most highly valued companies) or Nokia (one of the early 2000's highly valued electronic company, now lost quite a bit of it's market share/value). Only the future will show what will happen. Nothing is set in stone in this market and especially in this time. Hopefully they provide us with great products


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## shakirmoledina (May 13, 2012)

yes they have been having trouble since the hack of PSN. I think they dont need to change their company or worker structure but rather change their business strategy and approach.

nintendo has been having problems for years and yet they have been some way coming out safe.

one of their main problem IMHO is cost or price of their products. nowadays unless ur apple (and hence have made a ridiculously big name for yourself) you cant just sell any product at a high price.

but they are already experienced enough to know this. sometimes just sometimes, you have to give more to receive more. when sony become generous after the hack with free games and stuff, i feel they just might have gotten better in those few months.


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## emigre (May 13, 2012)

I like the number of people here who illustrate zero business knowledge.

Overall, I can't say I'm suprised. Shit like this happens when you're losing money every year. They certainly need to have a complete restructure how much they want to do, though I'm pretty sure Kaz Hirai's statement of intent when he became head honcho of Sony effectively stated this.


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## Bladexdsl (May 13, 2012)

karma is a bitch aye $ony?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 13, 2012)

emigre said:


> I like the number of people here who illustrate zero business knowledge.



Business to GBAtempers:

Losing money and you're Nintendo? It's a "transitional period"
Losing money and you're not Nintendo? You're doing a shit job!


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## Foxi4 (May 13, 2012)

The thing with Sony is that the company's present in numerous sectors of the industry wheras GBATemp users should probably limit their interest to Sony's involvement in gaming.

Their shares tumble because they make quality hardware - hardware_ not everyone can afford nowadays_, especially when there are cheaper alternatives. As much as I'd like to own a Bravia, a Samsung is simply "sufficient", it's similar with many other products of theirs. They need new lines of hardware - affordable and functional hardware, to put it bluntly.


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## The Catboy (May 13, 2012)

Poor Sony  Let's hope they do well at E3 this year.


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## AlanJohn (May 13, 2012)

The only way Sony™ can be saved is if the Playstation Vita™ gets a hack and a price-cut, it will then become the most successful handheld in history.


Spoiler



C'mon Sony, release a firmware update with a bug in it


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## GreatZimkogway (May 13, 2012)

AlanJohn said:


> The only way Sony™ can be saved is if the Playstation Vita™ gets a hack and a price-cut, it will then become the most successful handheld in history.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I'll say it again, a hack won't do anything at all.  The minority are the ones who pirate, and no one gives a crap about homebrew.  That percentage is even smaller than the ones who pirate.  And there's STILL not any games worth pirating.


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## AlanJohn (May 13, 2012)

alunral said:


> AlanJohn said:
> 
> 
> > The only way Sony™ can be saved is if the Playstation Vita™ gets a hack and a price-cut, it will then become the most successful handheld in history.
> ...


I think people will rather pirate their games instead of paying $60+ for them.


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## chyyran (May 13, 2012)

Hmm..Does this mean that they'll be a price drop in Sony's TVs and PS3s?

..

Or does it mean the opposite?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 13, 2012)

Punyman said:


> Hmm..Does this mean that they'll be a price drop in Sony's TVs and PS3s?
> 
> ..
> 
> Or does it mean the opposite?



Probably not the PS3s but the TV division is seriously fucked, god knows what they'll do with that.


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## chyyran (May 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Punyman said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm..Does this mean that they'll be a price drop in Sony's TVs and PS3s?
> ...




Is it a good time to pick up some cheap TVs from Sony?

My house only has 1 HDTV, then I have 2 CRTs and an analog flatscreen. It's time to upgrade..


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## KingVamp (May 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > I like the number of people here who illustrate zero business knowledge.
> ...




Well maybe because for a long time it was

Losing money and you're Nintendo? DOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!
Losing money and you're not Nintendo? *Looks the other way.


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## emigre (May 13, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > emigre said:
> ...



I think its the GBAtemp spectacles syndrome of double standards.

Another example is the the "complaining about CoD being rehashed whilst buying the new Pokemon game at release."


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## Rasas (May 13, 2012)

A hack might increase hardware sales for a short while but then devs might leave since the device isn't that secure or the hack allows pirating. So a hack will hurt them in the long run but might cause a increase in hardware sales for a while which isn't all to good. Also they probably don't make much money or lose money with every system sold not to mention they haven't covered their R&D costs yet so it is a major loss.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 13, 2012)

Okay, what is it with people thinking a hack would significantly increase hardware sales? You do realize the people who would buy a system specifically for a hack are actually a rather small minority?

Hacks won't help for shit on sales, especially when it comes down to the brunt of their money coming from software. And if you're buying it so it can be hacked, odds are you're either not buying or pirating games.

Sales increases come from doing things that normal consumers want, not from what a minor minority want.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 13, 2012)

soulx said:


> Maybe that's because Nintendo has never done this bad.
> 
> Just saying.



Nintendo is also not nearly as large of a company as Sony.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > I like the number of people here who illustrate zero business knowledge.
> ...


Maybe that's because Nintendo has never done this bad.

Just saying.


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## insidexdeath (May 13, 2012)

It's funny how people came to conclusion that Sony is losing money over their PS Vita or PS3 sales, well you people are wrong. PS3 is doing well even though I believe they're selling it at loss(prove me wrong if otherwise) however, the Vita currently isn't doing so well, but still that doesn't mean they're losing money from the video gaming side as you can see their Sony TVs are not selling well and they're in deep shit over that problem also, let's not forget that they also make MP3 players and tablets etc...


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## Clydefrosch (May 13, 2012)

compared to the company that only once or twice brought in losses at all in its... dunno, 100 years of existence, this is quite bad. i mean, look at sony, they are big and they bring in losses time and time again, theres not much arguing that either being big is a problem in general, or they just dont do it right atm

also. obviously they lose money on the vita and i guess even still on the ps3 sales. that is the hardware. they need games sold to make those losses go away.
but also obviously, thats not where they make the giant losses atm


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe that's because Nintendo has never done this bad.
> ...



Depends on how you define "large", if your going by the dollar value of the company which is the stick most people would use since companies are you know kinda into that whole money thing. Nintendo is actually the larger company at this point in time.


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 13, 2012)

insidexdeath said:


> It's funny how people came to conclusion that Sony is losing money over their PS Vita or PS3 sales, well you people are wrong. PS3 is doing well even though I believe they're selling it at loss(prove me wrong if otherwise) however, the Vita currently isn't doing so well, but still that doesn't mean they're losing money from the video gaming side as you can see their Sony TVs are not selling well and they're in deep shit over that problem also, let's not forget that they also make MP3 players and tablets etc...



Sony is the one reporting the multi billion dollar loss on its video game division.... So unless Sony is lying I believe you are the one who is mistaken.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 13, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> Depends on how you define "large", if your going by the dollar value of the company which is the stick most people would use since companies are you know kinda into that whole money thing. Nintendo is actually the larger company at this point in time.



I was talking about how Sony manages a ton of divisions (TVs, miscellaneous electronics, music, movies, games, etc) while Nintendo only manages games. So Sony can take a lot of hits in a lot of different areas while if Nintendo is doing poorly, it's because of their one (and only) area.


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## emigre (May 13, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> Depends on how you define "large", if your going by the dollar value of the company which is the stick most people would use since companies are you know kinda into that whole money thing. Nintendo is actually the larger company at this point in time.



I'm presuming Guild is talking about the number of different sectors, Sony are engaged in. Sony have their fingers is more pies than Nintendo. Hence why attention is paid towards different divisions in Sony.


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## DiscostewSM (May 13, 2012)

Sony can use the good-performing sectors to hold up the sectors doing poorly. This is something Nintendo can't do because they only have one sector. Unfortunately, this can lead to wasted allocation of resources if those poor-performing sectors stay and continue to do poorly. It becomes dependent on other sectors to keep itself afloat.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe that's because Nintendo has never done this bad.
> ...













Nintendo actually is the larger company.


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 13, 2012)

emigre said:


> PsionicRoshambo said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on how you define "large", if your going by the dollar value of the company which is the stick most people would use since companies are you know kinda into that whole money thing. Nintendo is actually the larger company at this point in time.
> ...



I do not think that the number of products a company makes is a valid way of measuring the size of a company, I mean a local restaurant makes probably 100 different dishes not counting the thousands of possible variations of them... But I would not say they are larger than Nintendo.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 13, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> I do not think that the number of products a company makes is a valid way of measuring the size of a company, I mean a local restaurant makes probably 100 different dishes not counting the thousands of possible variations of them... But I would not say they are larger than Nintendo.



That's not a good metaphor at all. A restaurant makes a hundred different dishes but they're all food. Sony makes a hundred different products and they're not all TVs, or video games, or alarm clocks, or cell phones.


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 13, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> PsionicRoshambo said:
> 
> 
> > I do not think that the number of products a company makes is a valid way of measuring the size of a company, I mean a local restaurant makes probably 100 different dishes not counting the thousands of possible variations of them... But I would not say they are larger than Nintendo.
> ...



A metaphor does not have to be perfect, just convey a concept. That being that making a bunch of stuff no matter how varied does not necessarily make you a large company, or conversely making just one product does not necessarily make you a small company. 

If you would like I could pick a hundred different companies of varied sizes and with manufacturing of a dizzying array of products, but it wouldn't change anything. At the end of the day the bottom line is all that matters to a company and right now Sony would sell its mom to trade bottom lines with Nintendo or even better Microsoft. 

If you don't like the restaurant metaphor lets take Microsoft, they do not make nearly as many products as Sony, Sony is the larger company?


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## heartgold (May 13, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...


Seriously? All these years I thought Sony was richer than Nintendo, I guess times change. The Wii and DS must have given Nintendo a huge boost.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 13, 2012)

Sony will bounce back. Buy now while it's cheap.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 13, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Sony will bounce back. Buy now while it's cheap.


A+++++ advice from analyst Hyro-Sama.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 13, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Sony will bounce back. Buy now while it's cheap.
> ...


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 13, 2012)

soulx said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Sony will bounce back. Buy now while it's cheap.
> ...



I would call it a gamble... Not that stocks are not always a gamble but my opinion of Sony right now is a little more risky than normal. They have been selling off assets and have had their credit rating reduced a couple of times and are reporting huge losses for the past 4 years running. If Sony could make some sort of comeback in a big market be it TV's or Music or Movies or Video Games an investment right now could pay off pretty big down the line, but I would hold off a little while longer as I doubt that this is the bottom of the price curve.

Best time to invest, right before they announce the PS4 there will be a jump in stock price for like 3 days. Sell at that point as it will nose dive after the excitement wears off.

Edit: First chunk of text is for long term investors the second is more for day trades.


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## tbgtbg (May 13, 2012)

ferofax said:


> If Sony and Ericsson's partnership didn't end so soon, they might have been able to make the Vita as a full-fledged gaming smartphone, kinda like how the Xperia Play does for the PSP. that would have been so much win, a smart phone with actual game buttons and dual analogs with monster specs.
> 
> also, they should start bundling their TVs with PS3s (or the other way around). this should help their ridiculously expensive TVs into actually churning out some sales. hell, they should release a *TV with BUILT-IN PS2/PS3 capabilities*. no other company has done that, nor thought of it. only Sony is currently in a position to actually try something crazy like that, and crazy might just be what they need. that could be their new Walkman. sure, it'd be expensive, but hey, built-in PS3? so much win.



While TV's with built in crap sound really cool on paper, in practice they not really a very good idea. If the TV part breaks, you're out both a TV and a PS3. If the PS3 part breaks, you gotta buy a new PS3, yet you still have this useless thing sitting there on your TV mocking you.


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## DSGamer64 (May 14, 2012)

Fibrizo said:


> Nintendo isn't even Sony's biggest competition. Panasonic, Samsung, Apple, LG, hell even fucking SHARP is just raping them in the electronics division, from televisions to music players, from headphones to cell phones.



Pretty much yeah. Sony really, I mean really, shot themselves in the foot with the PS3. They have been taking such a huge financial hit from it for so long, that recovery is nearly impossible, and when their products are effectively selling at retail for about a 10% profit, they aren't making enough money.

I wonder how long before Sony finally conceeds and starts shutting down certain divisions. They can't compete in any market because of poor business decisions and horrible products that are either overpriced, or just really really bad. Really poor business decisions with the PS3 and even the Vita, have really hurt them as a company. People don't want expensive products in today's economy, people want quality and affordability, neither of which Sony offers.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> Pretty much yeah. Sony really, I mean really, shot themselves in the foot with the PS3. They have been taking such a huge financial hit from it for so long, that recovery is nearly impossible, and when their products are effectively selling at retail for about a 10% profit, they aren't making enough money.
> 
> I wonder how long before Sony finally conceeds and starts shutting down certain divisions. They can't compete in any market because of poor business decisions and horrible products that are either overpriced, or just really really bad. Really poor business decisions with the PS3 and even the Vita, have really hurt them as a company. People don't want expensive products in today's economy, people want quality and affordability, neither of which Sony offers.



Um, gaming has actually been a rather positive area for them in recent years, the PS3 was successful for them. Not PS2 levels of success, but in the end it made them money and also really helped show how "selling on a loss" can work.

I really don't see why people here insist on railing on Sony's gaming division when it's probably been the most positive aspect of their company.

EDIT: And if you want to go say "NO THEY'RE NOT LOOK AT THIS!", it even explains part of that comes from floods in Taiwan, the other part is just PS3 sales being down (but it's also like 7 years into its lifespan, by this time they should really be entering in a new console).


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## DSGamer64 (May 14, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> DSGamer64 said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty much yeah. Sony really, I mean really, shot themselves in the foot with the PS3. They have been taking such a huge financial hit from it for so long, that recovery is nearly impossible, and when their products are effectively selling at retail for about a 10% profit, they aren't making enough money.
> ...



The Playstation division was far more profitable during the PS2 days, and would have started being profitable a few years ago had they released the PS3 originally with a more afforable price point in mind. The PS2 sold like hot cakes because it had both a great library at launch and a good price of 299, that's pretty much what they needed with the PS3 and got neither. So Sony is losing money in all of their departments, which really isn't a good sign. I think they need to get back to basics with all of their products, stop making computers that no one will buy because they are expensive, MP3 players that never sell because the iPod is the most adopted by the music industry, and just make quality products that people will buy. No more hardware standards like the Memory Stick either.


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## Foxi4 (May 14, 2012)

@[member='DSGamer64']

The PS2 was incredibly expensive for its time, you don't count the increase of pay nor the values of currency exchange into the equation at all. In the times of the PS2, the dollar was top dog compared to the Yen, nowadays the value of a dollar plummeted and the Yen keeps on getting stronger which is incredibly bad for business.

A price of $299 was previously unheard of (unless you count the console slash pc monstrosities of the 80'ties), it was a new high, much like the price of the PS3. Both consoles were expensive at the time of their release.

The Gamecube launched at $199.95, did that help it get the upper-hand? No, it did not sell as well despite being superior to the PS2 in many ways. Why? Because the PS2 had a lot backing it up - multimedia features, adapters for networking, IDE expansion, multitap, a massive library of titles and a headstart.

What really matters are the delicate balance between features and the price and a bloody good marketing scheme. To this day the PS3 is the BluRay player of choice - this feature alone helped sales and the situation was similar with the PS2 and its DVD drive. Your hardware needs to "do things" and Sony has that part covered. What would've really helped Vita would be better timing, but like in the case of the PS3, people will eventually realize that the competition simply "does less".

I see the PS4 in bright colours. Many gamers are disappointed in the Wii, even more with the Kinect. This is their moment to shine - if the timing is right, the features are there and the price reflects the status of our economy and is set to be in the buyer's reach, even if a tad expensive, they're in for a win.


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## Clarky (May 14, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> @[member='DSGamer64']
> Because the PS2 had a lot backing it up - multimedia features, *adapters for networking*, IDE expansion,* multitap*, a massive library of titles and a headstart.



while i won't argue about your argument about why the ps2 did better than the gamecube, the gamecube did have a network adapter and no need for a multitap


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## Foxi4 (May 14, 2012)

clarky said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > @[member='DSGamer64']
> ...


That was not my point. My point was that the Gamecube brought nothing more to the plate. Sure, it had built-in slots for 4 players, but the PS2 offered Multitap for next to nothing. Sure, it had a network adapter, but no IDE drive, no multimedia capabilities and no network infrastructure, rendering the connection a "multiplayer only" add-on.


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## lostdwarf (May 14, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> DSGamer64 said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty much yeah. Sony really, I mean really, shot themselves in the foot with the PS3. They have been taking such a huge financial hit from it for so long, that recovery is nearly impossible, and when their products are effectively selling at retail for about a 10% profit, they aren't making enough money.
> ...



Urm...People here "insist on railing on Sony's gaming division" because they are loosing money.  
"the other part is just PS3 sales being down (but it's also like 7 years into its lifespan, by this time they should really be entering in a new console"
hmm did you forget that sony have pledged that PS3 has a FULL 10 year life span.  
It should be top of the game by now.

One more thing... If I were sony, and a flood wrote off a lot of stock/assets by chance... I would also take the oppertunity to add my mahoosive PS3 losses into that number just to keep it all in one place.


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## Evo.lve (May 14, 2012)

1132 yen? That's... about 15 dollars Australian... which means, I can afford shares in Sony! Not that I'd want them, of course.


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## emigre (May 14, 2012)

Evo.lve said:


> 1132 yen? That's... about 15 dollars Australian... which means, I can afford shares in Sony! Not that I'd want them, of course.



Buy low, sell high. Or considering the present state of Sony, buy low, sell even lower.


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## Evo.lve (May 14, 2012)

emigre said:


> Evo.lve said:
> 
> 
> > 1132 yen? That's... about 15 dollars Australian... which means, I can afford shares in Sony! Not that I'd want them, of course.
> ...



I was referring to both the fact that a) Sony is a shit company, and b) their stock perfomance has been horrible.

I'm happy with my cut of Queensland Rail.


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## MelodieOctavia (May 14, 2012)

Damn, I never knew we had this many business analysts on the 'Temp! If I ever wanted to start my own business or get into stocks, this is the first place I would come to!


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## MelodieOctavia (May 14, 2012)

emigre said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, I never knew we had this many business analysts on the 'Temp! If I ever wanted to start my own business or get into stocks, this is the first place I would come to!
> ...



If it really was that simple, everyone would be rolling in cash.


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## emigre (May 14, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Damn, I never knew we had this many business analysts on the 'Temp! If I ever wanted to start my own business or get into stocks, this is the first place I would come to!



Buy low, sell high. And you're sorted.


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## emigre (May 14, 2012)

I was joking.

I acknowledge that joke was shit in response and vow not to use it again.


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## Veho (May 14, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > Buy low, sell high. And you're sorted.
> ...


It really is that simple. Predicting the future is the tricky part.


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## Foxi4 (May 14, 2012)

Veho said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > emigre said:
> ...





Spoiler










All you need is a driver's license and Libyan plutonium.


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## MelodieOctavia (May 14, 2012)

If I only knew where I put that damn flux capacitor...


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## Joe88 (May 14, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fix'd


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## Zetta_x (May 14, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Okay, what is it with people thinking a hack would significantly increase hardware sales? You do realize the people who would buy a system specifically for a hack are actually a rather small minority?
> 
> Hacks won't help for shit on sales, especially when it comes down to the brunt of their money coming from software. And if you're buying it so it can be hacked, odds are you're either not buying or pirating games.
> 
> Sales increases come from doing things that normal consumers want, not from what a minor minority want.




And the wii sold well because it was the best system.

The biggest factors influencing sales are:

Popularity
Userbase
Advertisements

How good games actually are is not as big of a factor as you think.

When parents go out shopping for a video game console, when people want video game consoles, when someone has to decide between a video game console, the average person will choose the most popular one (or one that a friend will have). Holy fuck, how many people picked the wii because it was hackable; not a single one of them was part of the minority that knew about hacking. They have all had friends with hacked wii's so they bought: harddrives, wii's, wii accessories and sometimes even wii games. I have had about 80% of my close friends go out and buy wii's who had no intentions of spending money on games.

At my school, we had this big ass event, in one of the concession stands, there was a wii with a homebrew channel on it. In the first 30 minutes of hanging around there, there was a fuckaton amount of people asking about it and what it can do. FUCKATON FUCKATON FUCKATON. Most of my friends, never played consoles, never knew shit about what games were on the wii, never anything. Yet, holy fuckaton they bought into it.

Same thing with the playstation, when people came over and saw a TI-84 calculator hooked up to my playstation, they were like WTF. Then every mother fucking friend went out and bought a playstation; holy mothafuckaton.
These people aren't gamers
These people had no taste on what games they like
Yet they went out and bought these shit mothers.

Think about Christmas time, the majority of children who have had no idea of what game console to get, they are going to choose the ones all of their friends are talking about. What is "good" has so many definitions, it's impossible to say all the good games are to one console, my cousin swears that PS3 has all the good games but I hated the majority and loved the majority of the wii games. From here you can see the high dependence on that minority you are talking about and the majority.*I'll say it say it again and bold it, while the minority only knows how to hack, there is a strong relationship that influences the majority to buy into it.*

Now what happens when a console gets hacked? Surely, it spreads like wildfire through out a small community, from there, it leaks like wildfire making the minority into a bigger minority. Then the amount of popularity, userbase, increases drastically, the console advertises for themselves. Then the majority take over. You should see all the sales of the PS3, when the console got hacked, holy mother fuckaton sales increased. Then as it couldn't get hacked, it slowly declined. However, the selling point now was still a fuck more than before it was hacked.


---

You are right, the wii being hacked is not the cause of the system to start selling well. It's the popularity that's gained from being able to be hacked which boosts the sales.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (May 15, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The thing with Sony is that the company's present in numerous sectors of the industry wheras GBATemp users should probably limit their interest to Sony's involvement in gaming.
> 
> Their shares tumble because they make quality hardware - hardware_ not everyone can afford nowadays_, especially when there are cheaper alternatives. As much as I'd like to own a Bravia, a Samsung is simply "sufficient", it's similar with many other products of theirs. They need new lines of hardware - affordable and functional hardware, to put it bluntly.


I agree. Sony has been making quality hardware with a premium price tag to boot. They're severely limiting their market base in this manner. It's also exactly why I bought an LG TV than a Bravia; not only is it $100 cheaper, it is also _good enough_.



Foxi4 said:


> @[member='DSGamer64']
> ...
> The Gamecube launched at $199.95, did that help it get the upper-hand? No, it did not sell as well despite being superior to the PS2 in many ways. Why? Because the PS2 had a lot backing it up - multimedia features, adapters for networking, IDE expansion, multitap, a massive library of titles and a headstart.
> ...


If I recall, one of the biggest selling points of the PS2 was DVD playback. Given that DVD was the Bluray back in the day, many people saw it as a good investment. Heck, a decent portion of people who bought the PS2 did it for the DVD playback features.

Man, all this talk of the PS2 makes me crave to play mine again.



Zetta_x said:


> ...
> Think about Christmas time, the majority of children who have had no idea of what game console to get, they are going to choose the ones all of their friends are talking about. What is "good" has so many definitions, it's impossible to say all the good games are to one console, my cousin swears that PS3 has all the good games but I hated the majority and loved the majority of the wii games. From here you can see the high dependence on that minority you are talking about and the majority.I'll say it say it again and bold it, while the minority only knows how to hack, there is a strong relationship that influences the majority to buy into it.
> ...


I like how you kept using "fuckaton" 

This is very true and I agree. Back in my day (in my country at least), the PS2 was hot shit. Every little mother fucker on the block, the neighbourhood, and the nation had or wanted one. When it was Christmas, hardly anyone wanted to get a Gamecube or an Xbox. It was clear: "I want a PS2". Why? Because kids kept talking about it; how awesome GTA is, how awesome Final Fantasy is, how awesome all kinds of shit it does is.

Today it's different though, the Xbox360 is more popular in my country than the PS3 or the Wii. Mostly because people kept talking about it and building hype around the console. And I'm talking about the same people who, not too long ago, were clutching their PS2s with vice-like grips.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Now what happens when a console gets hacked? Surely, it spreads like wildfire through out a small community, from there, it leaks like wildfire making the minority into a bigger minority. Then the amount of popularity, userbase, increases drastically, the console advertises for themselves. Then the majority take over. You should see all the sales of the PS3, when the console got hacked, holy mother fuckaton sales increased. Then as it couldn't get hacked, it slowly declined. However, the selling point now was still a fuck more than before it was hacked.



I'd like to see your source on these PS3 sales when the hack was released. I can't really remember anything in recent memory getting a huge sales boost from a hack. I out of all my friends, I'm the only one whose "hacked" a console I own. Which was a Wii. And at least four other friends I know own a Wii and it's not hacked.


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## Zetta_x (May 15, 2012)

I don't have sources; just instinct. My friend just graduated from UC Berkley and I have been away from the internet for like 3 days. So my post was pretty much an impulse post from excitement of being back!

But, I too would like to see some chart of hardware and software sells. If anything I said was right, then my guess it increased with it hacked (from an initial burst of people buying PS3's), started decreasing ever since, but the steadystate of sells is larger than it was before. But like I said just a prediction based on how many people I have seen bought a PS3 because of it.


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## HamburgerBandit (May 15, 2012)

insidexdeath said:
			
		

> It's funny how people came to conclusion that Sony is losing money over their PS Vita or PS3 sales, well you people are wrong. PS3 is doing well even though I believe they're selling it at loss(prove me wrong if otherwise)



Prove you wrong? Sure thing.

http://kotaku.com/59...oses-28-billion

PlayStation division loses 2.8 Billion in 2011.

They've also lost around 6 Billion since launching the PS3. And Vita, as much as I love it, is a total failure.  Sony needs to do something quick. I think E3 may turn things around.



			
				Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Um, gaming has actually been a rather positive area for them in recent years, the PS3 was successful for them.



I don't know where people get this idea when the facts completely disprove this statement.

Of the big three sony is in the most trouble and they have lost the most money on gaming.

Pointing this out doesn't mean I hate Sony. It just means I keep with the news.


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## Rasas (May 15, 2012)

Sony's Playstation division is making profit but is still in the red.
Microsoft's Entertainment and device division has made profit in 2008 but is still in the red and this includes other devices.
Nintendo is in a slump but 3ds sales are improving and the Wii U might help greatly.

Hacking a system may not help hardware sales or maybe it does. It might of arguably helped Playstation sales but overall I said it did more harm then good but what do I know maybe the publicity from the users helped or it just hurt sales since more people stopped buying as many or any games. Lets just not argue about it since their isn't much to prove either side wrong or correct. Look at the DS and when Slot 2 devices were made DS sales dropped. Look at the PS3 and when 3.15CFW was made sales increased. PSP sales increased but it got hacked early.
After figuring out when a device got hacked and sales I say it does boost hardware sales for a while or maybe it is coincidence who knows.

The PSP pretty much died since of who it catered to and the DS succeeded because of who it catered to can be one argument but honestly with a dozen or so articles and numbers showing that sales of hardware increased when a hack is released it proves it may increase hardware sales but it may cause devs to leave the system and other things that might hurt it in the long run. The PSP, PC (sort of) and Wii being prime examples of devs leaving.


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