# Miyamoto: Sony should learn from Nintendo's mistakes



## DiscostewSM (May 5, 2012)

"It's obviously a very hi-spec machine, and you can do lots of things with it," he said of Vita, which launched in Japan last December and in the west in late February. "But I don't really see the combination of software and hardware that really makes a very strong product."

3DS, however, has been Japan's best-selling hardware every single week since last August's price cut - and Miyamoto admits it was a lack of software that held back Nintendo's glasses-free 3D handheld.

"When we launched the 3DS hardware we didn't have _Super Mario 3D Land_, we didn't have _Mario Kart 7_, we didn't have _Kid Icarus: Uprising_," he said. "We were striving to have all of these ready for the launch, but we weren't able to deliver them at that time.

"We were kind of hoping that people would, nevertheless, buy into the product, find 3DS hardware promising, but looking back we have to say we realise the key software was missing when we launched the hardware."





Source


From the one and only Mr. Miyamoto. Software is the key to selling hardware, whether it is the Vita, 3DS, or something else (but we all knew that). What is important is to know this when going into the next generation.

In before people feel compelled to say that this is an attack on Sony.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Nintendo should learn for Sony that one analog control is a poor choice. 

Anyway he's right, nothing to disregard him.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

> "But I don't really see the combination of software and hardware that really makes a very strong product."


Because the 3DS's library is better and totally not full of ports.



> "When we launched the 3DS hardware we didn't have _Super Mario 3D Land_, we didn't have _Mario Kart 7_, we didn't have _Kid Icarus: Uprising_"


Because those are killer apps not just for Nintendo fans and have a wide-spread appeal.



> "We were kind of hoping that people would, nevertheless, buy into the product, find 3DS hardware promising, but looking back we have to say we realise the key software was missing when we launched the hardware."


Nope, it was just grossly overpriced.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

I don't see his criticisms as valid.

The 3DS had an awful line-up for launch. The Vita had a great one. It hasn't had a holiday slot for most anywhere yet so it's not gonna get a software flood like the 3DS did. Even then, I hate to point it out, but the Vita and the 3DS are getting basically the same amount of noteworthy titles per month.


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## KingVamp (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> > "When we launched the 3DS hardware we didn't have _Super Mario 3D Land_, we didn't have _Mario Kart 7_, we didn't have _Kid Icarus: Uprising_"
> 
> 
> Because those are killer apps not just for Nintendo fans and have a wide-spread appeal.


I have a problem with your whole (ok maybe just 2/3) post,but this just irks me.

Never mind, you are right, 'cause you got %100 proof that these games don't got wide-spread appeal and there is no way that some people can like the games despite it being from Nintendo.

Even then, that besides the point, killer "apps" are killer "apps".


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## Deleted User (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I don't see his criticisms as valid.
> 
> The 3DS had an awful line-up for launch. The Vita had a great one. It hasn't had a holiday slot for most anywhere yet so it's not gonna get a software flood like the 3DS did. Even then, I hate to point it out, but the Vita and the 3DS are getting basically the same amount of noteworthy titles per month.


Every single launch in the history of gaming was pretty bad minus like Dreamcast and Xbox 1, Vita still to this day has very few *Good* titles.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> > "But I don't really see the combination of software and hardware that really makes a very strong product."
> 
> 
> Because the 3DS's library is better and totally not full of ports.



That's heavy bro, you pushing my limits as well with that line. OOT, Starfox are remakes, heck lets just call MGS 3D a port while we are at it, even though the developer claimed it was a full remake from scratch, no it looks and plays shit, so must be a port. Heck they are all ports.

Why don't you use a better technical  term such as 'rehash' of the same games we have played before.  Chose your words wisely foxi and that is all.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> That's heavy bro, you pushing my limits as well with that line. OOT, Starfox are remakes, heck lets just call MGS 3D a port while we are at it, even though the developer claimed it was a full remake from scratch, no it looks and plays shit, so must be a port. Heck they are all ports.
> 
> Why don't you use a better technical  term such as 'rehash' of the same games we have played before.  Chose your words wisely foxi and that is all.



Names aside, they're either shitty remakes or cash in ports. People who rail on the whole "THEY'RE REMAKES NOT PORTS" when it really doesn't matter are just avoiding the main issue here.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > That's heavy bro, you pushing my limits as well with that line. OOT, Starfox are remakes, heck lets just call MGS 3D a port while we are at it, even though the developer claimed it was a full remake from scratch, no it looks and plays shit, so must be a port. Heck they are all ports.
> ...


I don't know about you, I stick for facts and not opinions to how other people see it. That are remakes no matter how you look into it, nothing's gonna change that.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> I don't know about you, I stick for facts and not opinions to how other people see it. That are remakes no matter how you look into it, nothing's gonna change that.



But that doesn't change the issue that they are shitty "rehashes" (or remakes, whatever).


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## AceWarhead (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > > "But I don't really see the combination of software and hardware that really makes a very strong product."
> ...


You gotta admit though, OOT3D was a crap port. All they did was stick in new graphics. No bonuses or goodies.
Starfox 3D was just a cash port, and I don't even know why they decided to remake it...


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know about you, I stick for facts and not opinions to how other people see it. That are remakes no matter how you look into it, nothing's gonna change that.
> ...


I don't disagree with you, they are technically remakes but rehashes of the same games over and over again.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

Okay, fine:

_BlazBlue: Continuum Shift 2 _- *PORT*
_Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D - _*LAZY REMAKE*
_Metal Gear Solid 3 3D - _*LAZY REMAKE*
_Monster Hunter Tri G - _*PORT WITH EXTRA CONTENT*
_Myst -  _*PORT OF AN AGED GAME* _(Comming Soon)_
_Rayman 3D - _*PORT*
_Splinter Cell 3D - _*PORT*
_Devil Survivor: Overclocked - _*PORT WITH EXTRA CONTENT *_(Which should've been released on the DS anyways, I don't see how it validates a 3DS release)_
_Starfox 64 - _*LAZY REMAKE*
_Street Fighter IV - _*PORT WITH EXTRA CONTENT*

Now please hurry to correct me.


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## AceWarhead (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Okay, fine:
> 
> _BlazBlue: Continuum Shift 2 _- *PORT*
> _Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D - _*LAZY REMAKE*
> ...


Everything here is all true.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

AceWarhead said:


> Everything here is all true.


Did you guys notice that _Myst_ in particular has been released on just about any platform after its initial release and at this point it's not ever _entertaining_ anymore, let alone a _valid purchase_?

Where are those people who _buy Myst_? I mean, it has to bring some sort of profit if they keep on porting it...


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> _Street Fighter IV - _*PORT WITH EXTRA CONTENT*



Technically it doesn't even have the content for Arcade Edition so I do love bashing it for that.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Okay, fine:
> 
> _BlazBlue: Continuum Shift 2 _- *PORT*
> _Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D - _*LAZY REMAKE*
> ...


With over 70+ 3DS games released, yes they are (nearly) all ports like you claimed. 

So, you are telling me Vita has no ports? XD


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## AceWarhead (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> AceWarhead said:
> 
> 
> > Everything here is all true.
> ...


And every single time it is re-released, the ratings got worse...


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > _Street Fighter IV - _*PORT WITH EXTRA CONTENT*
> ...


It has that new thingamajig "over the shoulder view", so I treated that as "Exclusive Content for the platform".



heartgold said:


> So, you are telling me Vita has no ports? XD


Why bring the Vita into the chit-chat? We're talking about the 3DS here.

My point is that Miyamoto criticizes the competitor for a crime his own system is also guilty of. He's being hypocritical and pretends there's no issue with the 3DS's software line-up when it's getting saturated with ports while new, good games like Rayman Origins have issues with getting to the platform.

Do note that most _good_ games on the platform _are_ ports or remakes. By the way, I never claimed that _all_ of them are, only that the library does contain ports too.


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## MelodieOctavia (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> AceWarhead said:
> 
> 
> > Everything here is all true.
> ...



Honestly, the last time I "bought" Myst, it came bundled with with my Windows 98 machine.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Honestly, the last time I "bought" Myst, it came bundled with with my Windows 98 machine.


I think it's like this with most people, hence I'm wondering how come this one particular FMV game requires so many re-releases.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Why bring the Vita into the chit-chat? We're talking about the 3DS here.
> 
> My point is that Miyamoto criticizes the competitor for a crime his own system is also guilty of. He's being hypocritical and pretends there's no issue with the 3DS's software line-up when it's getting saturated with ports while new, good games like Origins have issues with getting to the platform.



Is that so, you claimed nearly the entire 3DS library is full of ports, now back your claim up. You only listed a few. lol


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> With over 70+ 3DS games released, yes they are (nearly) all ports like you claimed.
> 
> So, you are telling me Vita has no ports? XD



70+ 3DS games and a majority are already crap honestly.

When I do the Games of the Month thread every month, I look through all the upcoming releases for the 3DS and Vita. And I realize something. They're the same in terms of title releases. The 3DS just had a head start. Yeah, maybe ten games are coming out for the 3DS in may, but there's literally only one noteworthy. At least with the Vita they don't have the crap all around it and just give you two games this month, both of which are at least quality.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Is that so, you claimed nearly the entire 3DS library is full of ports, now back your claim up. You only listed a few. lol


_Show me where I said so. Quote me._ I said _it's full of ports _because _it is full of ports_. It's also _full of shovelware_, I'm not afraid to say that - there's only a handful of games that I would buy for the system, not nearly enough to make me buy a 3DS just yet, hence I don't have one personally, I just use my girlfriend's 3DS which is entirely sufficient for me at this point.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > With over 70+ 3DS games released, yes they are (nearly) all ports like you claimed.
> ...



Okay guild nice to know, I didn't ask for your dislike or likes. We are talking about the number of ports.


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## Fibrizo (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Okay, fine:
> 
> _BlazBlue: Continuum Shift 2 _- *PORT*
> _Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D - _*LAZY REMAKE*
> ...





Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 (Port)
FIFA Soccer (Port)
Dynasty Warriors Next (DW7 Port)
MLB 12: The Show (Port)
Asphalt: Injection (PORT)
Rayman Origins (Port)
Blaz Blue:Continuum Shift Extend (Port)
HotShots Golf (Port)
Lumines (Port)
ModNation Racers (Port)
Virtua Tennis 4 (Port)
Supremacy MMA (Port)
Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus (Port)


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## Forstride (May 5, 2012)

Can't wait to see the bullshit reasoning Guild and Foxi have when they respond to Fibrizo's post.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

Fibrizo said:


> *unrelated post*


We know Vita also has ports, you're _missing the point_.

Miyamoto implies that the 3DS's library is somehow better and different from the Vita's when in fact it's the same in nature, just larger because the 3DS has been out longer than the Vita. Neither console shines at this point.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

Fibrizo said:


> Dynasty Warriors Next (DW7 Port)
> HotShots Golf (Port)
> Lumines (Port)
> ModNation Racers (Port)



None of these are ports.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Is that so, you claimed nearly the entire 3DS library is full of ports, now back your claim up. You only listed a few. lol
> ...


Yeah sure.



Foxi4 said:


> > "But I don't really see the combination of software and hardware that really makes a very strong product."
> 
> 
> Because the 3DS's library is better andtotally not* full* of ports.


Hence you have use the word 'full', that's claiming the whole library is full of ports in the way you said it. If not, use better wording.



Fibrizo said:


> Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 (Port)
> FIFA Soccer (Port)
> Dynasty Warriors Next (DW7 Port)
> MLB 12: The Show (Port)
> ...



Oh don't forget Mortal Kombat (Port)


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## Ryupower (May 5, 2012)

disgeae 3 as well,
it may be a port but it is more of a complete version as it has all DLC and extras


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## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Hence you have use the word 'full', that's claiming the whole library is full of ports in the way you said it. If not, use better wording.



You really need to learn when people are not using a word literally. If I say "you're full of crap" I don't literally mean you're filled with crap. He was clearing implying "a lot of ports" and not "only ports".

I really think you're just spending a lot of time arguing about words than you are the claims being made.


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Hence you have use the word 'full', that's claiming the whole library is full of ports in the way you said it. If not, use better wording.
> ...


Maybe so, I shall take a step back. frustrating day might be causing this.

I don't disagree with anyone's opinion or claim here. I've just been a little too picky to get a response back. XD


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

Sorry if any misconceptions have arisen, I was informed that my post has been _misinterpreted_, I will attempt to clarify my statement _thoroughly_ before any further confusion ensues.

I am _not_ bashing the 3DS _nor_ am I praising the Vita. In fact, _I am criticizing both libraries_ for being _infested with ports_. Some of those are valid, some _should be in Virtual Console_, not sold as full-price contemporary games. I think it's a disgusting practice.

I disagree with Miyamoto as far as the _"The 3DS is now being sold due to combination of hardware and a good library"_ because the libraries of the 3DS and the Vita are similar and suffer from similar issues, it's just that the 3DS's is larger because it was on the market for a longer while and it instilled its position.

I am getting the impression that people are no longer Launch Day Buyers and take their time to see if any faults surface before they purchase something. The 3DS had its time already, the Vita is still in limbo.

I _agree_ with Miyamoto as far as the _"Rocky Start"_ is concerned as both consoles indeed were stalled at the beginning by the same reasons.

I believe that both consoles show the exact same promise at this point and I am not glorifying either as a whole, I may only glorify particular features.

I hope this thoroughly explains my take on the issue.


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## DiscostewSM (May 5, 2012)

Like I said, I knew someone would feel the need to defend Sony like there was an attack, even though the man spoke highly of the Vita itself. The 3DS had a bad launch (no matter what someone says). The Vita had a bad launch (no matter what someone says). Miyamoto was simply saying that since they were first with the poor launch this handheld generation by a good half a year at least, Sony could have learned from that instead of following suite.

One's idea of a good game may differ from another. Unless you have the backing of the majority in your favor, the idea that something is good or crap is purely an opinion of an individual, and does not reflect the opinion of the whole.


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## Gahars (May 5, 2012)

Pot to Kettle: "You are black."


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## heartgold (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Sorry if any misconceptions have arisen, I was informed that my post has been _misinterpreted_, I will attempt to clarify my statement _thoroughly_ before any further confusion ensues.
> 
> I am _not_ bashing the 3DS _nor_ am I praising the Vita. In fact, _I am criticizing both libraries_ for being _infested with ports_. Some of those are valid, some _should be in Virtual Console_, not sold as full-price contemporary games. I think it's a disgusting practice.
> 
> ...


Seriously foxi4, you went through all that trouble. I was just being a dick.  

Thanks for the clear response nevertheless. Sorry to hassle you so much. XD


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## Gaiaknight (May 5, 2012)

im a huge 3ds fan but it really is hard to deny it doesn't have a good amount of ports

Just of the 3ds games i own not including digital

Kid Icarus: Uprising - New title
Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time 3D - "remake"
Super Mario 3D Land -  New title
Mario Kart 7 -  New title
Star Fox 64 3D 'Remake"
Pokemon Rumble Blast -  New title
Pilot Wings Resort -  New title
Steel Diver - New title
Nintendos + Cats - technically new title
Tales of the Abyss - Port
Skylanders -  New title i would say console port but the 2 are completely different games
Resident Evil: Revelations - New title
Resident Evil The Mercenaries 3D - technically new title
Super Street Fight 4 3D - port
Rayman 3D - port
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Shadow Wars - New title
Super Monkey Ball 3D - new title
Samurai Warriors Chronicles - New title
Pro Evolution Soccer 3d - port
Ridge Race - not to sure about this one lol


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Seriously foxi4, you went through all that trouble. I was just being a dick.
> 
> Thanks for the clear response nevertheless. Sorry to hassle you so much. XD


Don't get your heels over your head just yet, I didn't post it _for you_ or for anybody else, I just don't want to be percieved as a fanboy of either company. I only criticize things that I believe in and things I would like to see further improved, hence my common criticism of Nintendo - a company that I've been faithfuly following since the Game Boy Colour days.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Nintendo should learn for Sony that one analog control is a poor choice.
> 
> Anyway he's right, nothing to disregard him.



Shut up. No it's not. I'm tired of hearing this generation of gamers always complaining about analog sticks.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo should learn for Sony that one analog control is a poor choice.
> ...


Yes it is. I'm tired of people trying to convince the rest of the world that the widely accepted standard of having one stick for motion and the other for camera control that's been around since PS1 is somehow obsolete in 2012 despite being present on nearly every single controller since PS1's Dual Shock.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...



It's only necessary for games like FPS' really. Maybe wide open adventure type games too, but not all. I'm not saying it's obsolete either, I'm saying not everything has to have it.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 5, 2012)

I can't believe that you guys actually disagree with Miyamoto. I mean, he's spot-on. The Vita may be a nice piece of hardware but it doesn't have any games worth buying a system for.



Guild McCommunist said:


> The 3DS had an awful line-up for launch. The Vita had a great one. It hasn't had a holiday slot for most anywhere yet so it's not gonna get a software flood like the 3DS did. Even then, I hate to point it out, but the Vita and the 3DS are getting basically the same amount of noteworthy titles per month.


The difference is the Vita has absolutely nothing notable on the horizon. They blew it all on the lineup whereas the 3DS has a number of good upcoming games.


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## gamefan5 (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> I can't believe that you guys actually disagree with Miyamoto. I mean, he's spot-on. The Vita may be a nice piece of hardware but it doesn't have any games worth buying a system for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We don't disagree. It's the fact that he's in no postition to say  it since the 3DS wasn't better at launch time.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> It's only necessary for games like FPS' really. Maybe wide open adventure type games too, but not all. I'm not saying it's obsolete either, I'm saying not everything has to have it.


For some players it's just more convinient, and in some situations actually more comfortable - why do you think Nintendo bundles Kid Icarus with a 3DS stand?

They fixed the issue by releasing the CirclePad Pro - they acknowledge the fact that dual analog has been requested by the fans, god bless them for it and let's hope that this functionality will be embedded in a potential revision of the system.


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## GameWinner (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> I can't believe that you guys actually disagree with Miyamoto. I mean, he's spot-on. The Vita may be a nice piece of hardware but it doesn't have any games worth buying a system for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess Gravity Rush, Metal Gear Solid Collection, LittleBigPlanet, Persona 4 Golden, Ragnarok Odyssey and Orgarhythm aren't coming to Vita.


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## gamefan5 (May 5, 2012)

Soulx, you're fanboyism is showing. This is why I hate fanboyism, it blinds gamers to the truth.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 5, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> We don't disagree. It's the fact that he's in no postition to say  it since the 3DS wasn't better at launch time.


Yeah and he never said the 3DS was better. In fact, he said the contrary.
"When we launched the 3DS hardware we didn't have _Super Mario 3D Land_, we didn't have _Mario Kart 7_, we didn't have _Kid Icarus: Uprising_," he said. "We were striving to have all of these ready for the launch, but we weren't able to deliver them at that time.

"We were kind of hoping that people would, nevertheless, buy into the product, find 3DS hardware promising, but looking back we have to say we realise the key software was missing when we launched the hardware."



GameWinner said:


> I guess Gravity Rush, Metal Gear Solid Collection, LittleBigPlanet, Persona 4 Golden, Ragnarok Odyssey and Orgarhythm aren't coming to Vita.


MGS: HD Collection - Port.
Persona 4 The Golden - Port/Remake

I'll give you the other games but if you only have 2 notable upcoming games (and 2 niche) for your platform, there's a problem.


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## gamefan5 (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > We don't disagree. It's the fact that he's in no postition to say  it since the 3DS wasn't better at launch time.
> ...


Perhaps, but the 3DS is in no better position than the Vita right now. There are only idk, 3 or 4 worthwhile games? It may sell like hotcakes in Japan, but there are only a few handful of games that aren't shovelware.


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## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> MGS: HD Collection - Port.


MGS: Naked Snake 3DS = 20FPS Remake sold full-price
MGS: HD Collection Vita = Metal Gear Solid 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake = 4 games for the price of 1

I wonder what's a better deal...

Also, this and Persona 4 aren't the only "notable games" comming for the Vita y'know.


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## GameWinner (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> I'll give you the other games but if you only have 2 notable upcoming games (and 2 niche) for your platform, there's a problem.


I didn't list all of the games coming to Vita, just some of the ones off the top of my head.
http://vita.ign.com/index/upcoming.html


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## Geren (May 5, 2012)

I believe that miyamoto was refering to the lack of vita games for the_ japanese_ audience. I mean, the only game that I know that caters to them is that dating sim. 

The 3DS is having a strong flow there with titles like monster hunter and goddamn fire emblem.


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## DiscostewSM (May 5, 2012)

Geren said:


> I believe that miyamoto was refering to the lack of vita games for the_ japanese_ audience. I mean, the only game that I know that caters to them is that dating sim.
> 
> The 3DS is having a strong flow there with titles like monster hunter and goddamn fire emblem.



You have a point there.


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## alphamule (May 5, 2012)

Note how he mentions specifically that he's most proud of the original titles that he _wished_ were out at launch.  And I'm not sure if Mario Kart 7 should be considered a port or a sequel.  Either way, it's not exactly 'original' by any measure but man it sounds fun to try.    I remember when the NES was new.  The major title that sold a lot of systems?  Super Mario Bros.  Which one kept them selling a few years later?  Super Mario Bros. *3*  Or at least it seemed that way among my friends.  I can't remember but it seems that Super Mario World/Super Mario Bros. 4 was the major release title on the SNES.  Sequels aren't always lazy rehashes (but they can be).

And it should be a "No sh**, Sherlock!" that you can't sell a system without software.  Look at the Jaguar.  (LOL, epic fail)

The change from the DS to the to the DSi was no where near as big as the change from the DSi to 3DS, as far as taking a risk on new hardware goes.  I remember my stepbrother getting burnt with his PS2.  No one knew if the first 3DS systems would have major issues or not but now they're mature and well-known.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 5, 2012)

How does Metal gear Solid even count when you can play it on PS3? Persona 4 isn't available to play in HD unless you buy it for the Vita.


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## Fear Zoa (May 5, 2012)

Rather then bitching at each other and yelling port we could just agree that both consoles need some new and noteworthy games.

I mean really your complaining to the wrong people.


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## Sora de Eclaune (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> AceWarhead said:
> 
> 
> > Everything here is all true.
> ...


I would rather they started porting the rest of the games, now. Heck, even if the system isn't graphically powerful enough for Revelations, End of Ages, or Uru, then it can still run Riven or Exile. Seriously, it even got a remake called REALmyst (a version of Myst that played and looked more like End of Ages), and that wasn't even ported out (even though it should be, seeing as it has the most recent gaming engine).

It's kind of like the issue with Rayman 2 being ported too much. Come on, where's Rayman 3? We might even want some more ports of Rayman 1! But no more Rayman 2, please!


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## Deleted-236924 (May 5, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> How does Metal gear Solid even count when you can play it on PS3?


Not portable, though.


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## The Milkman (May 5, 2012)

Sigh,
So. Theres a few sides here.

There's a side that says Miamoto is wrong for stating Sony should have learned from Nintendos mistakes, which while I think is uncalled-for is true since they had no problem "learning"  from Nintendo before.

A side thay says Miamoto is completely right and are being blantly called fanboys because apparently argeeing with a statement makes you a Nintendo Fanboy.

A side that, for reasons beyond my level of understanding, is talking about the 3DS being mostly ports when it clearly isn't half as bad as they say seeing how even at launch about 70% of the releases are original titles.

Guild doing his usual pro-Sony, bash-Nintendo thing, which I would think most of us would learn NOT to provoke by now.

And some shit about dual analogs.

Why must any topic with the words Vita and 3DS always turn to somekind of console war?


----------



## Rasas (May 5, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> Snip
> Why must any topic with the words Vita and 3DS always turn to somekind of console war?



Just avoid the topics that might turn out like this.


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

God, this thread is pathetic.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 5, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Nintendo should learn for Sony that one analog control is a poor choice.
> 
> Anyway he's right, nothing to disregard him.


This. 3DS revision, people? 

And speaking as a fully admitted Nintendo fanboy (who at least TRIES to remain fair in talks like this), I gotta say, I have all the available 3DS games I want right now (except for maybe 1 or 2, and some that haven't come out yet), and my library adds up to a grand total of...

7 games. and at least 1 of them is a game most people seemed to hate (Spider-Man: Edge of Time 3D).

There's really no way to deny that the 3DS needs WAY more games, and good 3rd party games at that. The fact that I have those 7 games and that's (ALL BUT ONE OR TWO that I want at all that are currently available) is very telling that Nintendo took their sweet time with good games on the system. It's been out for well over a year, and its library speaks like it's only been out for less than 6 months. That's bad.

And since I don't own a Vita (and have owned no Sony consoles since the PS1), I can't really comment there.


----------



## CrimzonEyed (May 5, 2012)

another console war?

*hide's in EOF bunker*


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 5, 2012)

CrimzonEyed said:


> another console war?
> 
> *hide's in EOF bunker*


----------



## Wizerzak (May 5, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > gamefan5 said:
> ...



SM3DL
Mario Kart 7
LoZ: OoT
Starfox 64
DoA: Dimensions
Pushmo
Tetris
Cave Story
Bit. Trip Saga
Rhythm Thief
Kid Icarus
Resident Evil: Revelations
MGS
Mutant Mudds
SSFIV
VVVVVV
And more on the horizon, plus some other games that personally I'm not interested in so I can never remember what they are.


----------



## Master Mo (May 5, 2012)

I think launching a system without one first party killer app shipped with it or being available day one is stupid. No matter what company it is...

When I get a new system I always get two games and there is still space for a good third party games. I think first parties should not always be so careful about third parties, since they'll automatically will come on board when the installbase is there and then first parties might as well do a little less support.

For example PilotWings was not enough at launch for the 3DS though nobody should expect something like 3DLand as well.

EDIT: Dude, some things in this po*s*t were so wrong. Damn these iPads


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 5, 2012)

Agreed. They should have at least had StarFox or Zelda 3D ready for launch (remember what Super Mario 64 DS did for the original DS?)


----------



## Carnivean (May 5, 2012)

Personally I find there's a great lack of titles to give a fuck about on either platform, the vita is mostly just games I'd rather play on an actual console thus far and outside of SM3DL and MK7 I've pretty much no interest in the majority of the 3DS titles.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > The 3DS had an awful line-up for launch. The Vita had a great one. It hasn't had a holiday slot for most anywhere yet so it's not gonna get a software flood like the 3DS did. Even then, I hate to point it out, but the Vita and the 3DS are getting basically the same amount of noteworthy titles per month.
> ...



Despite the fact both systems are basically having an equal quantity of good games coming out per month? Also, the 3DS had an E3 to announce stuff. The Vita didn't get one yet.

Remember, soulx: not a fanboy.



ShadowSoldier said:


> It's only necessary for games like FPS' really. Maybe wide open adventure type games too, but not all. I'm not saying it's obsolete either, I'm saying not everything has to have it.



It's hilarious that you think that. Almost any game with a moveable camera should have a second analog stick. And most every game should have a moveable camera.


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...



Fixed.


----------



## gamefan5 (May 5, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> gamefan5 said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...


And sadly, most of them are remakes. Don't get me wrong, those are GOOD games indeed XD. But there needs to be lots more games that can can take advantage of the 3DS capabilities. Something that it is lacking, which is NORMAL now since it's only been 1 year. I just think Miyamoto wasn't in the position of saying it NOW. Now I'm not that the vita is better 'cause it's not. Both consoles suffers the same problems at this point.


----------



## Fibrizo (May 5, 2012)

I like what Foxi4  and CO is doing he knows the Psvita is doing bad    but what t does he do to pass his arguments well easy say both system are bad  that’s a typical fanboy for you .

The Fact is the vita is not doing so good the thing is over price and it lacks games it flop in Japan and is going the same road on the west  hopefully E3 will give us some news  on actual games for it.


----------



## GameWinner (May 5, 2012)

Fibrizo said:


> I like what Foxi4  and CO is doing he knows the Psvita is doing bad	but what t does he do to pass his arguments well easy say both system are bad  that’s a typical fanboy for you .
> 
> The Fact is the vita is not doing so good the thing is over price and it lacks games it flop in Japan and is going the same road on the west  hopefully E3 will give us some news  on actual games for it.


Huh? The Vita just came out back in February (International). You can't really expect much yet (Until E3 rolls around).


----------



## Foxi4 (May 5, 2012)

Fibrizo said:


> I like what Foxi4  and CO is doing he knows the Psvita is doing bad	but what t does he do to pass his arguments well easy say both system are bad  that’s a typical fanboy for you .
> 
> The Fact is the vita is not doing so good the thing is over price and it lacks games it flop in Japan and is going the same road on the west  hopefully E3 will give us some news  on actual games for it.


I'm not saying that both systems are bad, I'm saying that _both systems have strong and weak points_ - that's an entirely different story. As of today, neither has "a whole lot" of interesting games just yet but _both have good games coming up for'em_. As for overpricing, I don't think the Vita is overpriced at all - it's probably the strongest portable device of this form factor on the market as of today. The 3DS was launched with the same pricetag and nobody seemed to mind. The 3DS recieved a price cut because there was leeway for it, with the Vita there is none.

How does the Vita lack games by the way? I'm interested in an equal amount of Vita and 3DS games, personally. The fact that the 3DS's library is larger doesn't mean that it has more _interesting games._


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 5, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > MGS: HD Collection - Port.
> ...


Why are you bringing up Snake Eater 3D?

And the Vita version actually only has MGS2 and MGS3. Still a good deal, though.



Spoiler



But to be frank, any version of MGS3 is worth $999,999.





Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


They certainly do not have an equal quantity of upcoming games. There are a lot more notable 3DS games coming then there are Vita games not to mention that the 3DS already has it's _so-called killer app_. Even in E3 2010, we knew about more upcoming 3DS games than we did with Vita games. And that's an issue. The Vita isn't selling horribly because of the price. It's selling horribly because of a lack of games. The exact same reason the 3DS didn't do well when it first came out.

When the only game Sony announces at their Vita web broadcast is Phantasy Star Online 2, that's a problem.


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Why are you bringing up Snake Eater 3D?
> 
> And the Vita version actually only has MGS2 and MGS3. Still a good deal, though.



No, it also has MG and MG2.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 5, 2012)

emigre said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Why are you bringing up Snake Eater 3D?
> ...


The Vita version only has those two games.


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > soulx said:
> ...


----------



## Coto (May 5, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know about you, I stick for facts and not opinions to how other people see it. That are remakes no matter how you look into it, nothing's gonna change that.
> ...



But they're still selling like hotcakes, so games, ports or whatever they are they're doing much better than Vita's sales. And they aren't that cheap you know 

-

Anyway, I'd have a Vita because of its hardware and capabilities, and a 3DS because of some games


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 5, 2012)

emigre said:


> ~snip



Oh, didn't know.

Well I guess that makes it an even better deal?


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

soulx said:


> Oh, didn't know.






soulx said:


> And the Vita version actually only has MGS2 and MGS3. Still a good deal, though.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 5, 2012)

emigre said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, didn't know.
> ...


?

I was under the impression that the Vita version only had MGS2/MGS3 before. I stand corrected.


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

It was for the purpose of contrasting moods. Art, some may call it.


----------



## Tsuteto (May 5, 2012)

Emigre, sometimes I don't understand you, but you're still on my "top of GBATemp members" list.

I don't have either systems, so my claims don't really have anything to do with facts.  The main thing I get from what Miyamoto stated was that there was a lack of software at launch.  I don't care about the fact of how sales are doing right now (and, yes, I agree the point of the Vita only being out for a short amount of time is very contributive to the fact of lower weekly sales, and I'm sure that will pick up in due time), I care more about the theory related things in the opening post that do with sales: having the proper software for the system (and other theories that go into it is, of course, the game base in due time).  I also think of one other thing that Miyamoto said: width and depth.  The Wii was used in that case, where he felt that the width was there for a lot of people to buy the system, because of some game they could get with it, but the depth was absolutely missing for the more serious gamers.  Sony and MS covered the depth a lot better, but they completely miss on casuals IMO, unless the casuals get into a certain game because one of their gamer friends showed them it.  The game base on the respective systems was not there as well, thus the word of mouth only applied to gamers than casuals.

That's the biggest challenge any company will face: Providing the things for those who are more serious, but not focusing solely on that so that everyone else is excluded.  To give an example: The biggest thing in the DDR community here is putting a whole bunch of songs on our local machine for the community.  That COMPLETELY turns off the casuals though that have no idea where to go when the play the machine :/  It, personally, bugs me, because I WANT the more casuals to be into it.

The same thing will go for the 3DS and the Vita: Both companies will look for getting as much money as they can, but it also has to be marketed right.  Nintendo's mistake at launch was two things to me: High price and lack of software.  Sony's mistake at launch was two things also to me: Lack of knowledge of system and lack of software.  In Nintendo's shoes, I would also use the same comment of something that two companies had similar problems, and "talking down" about how the other company did not look at someone else's mistakes, while still showing themselves as goody goody people that just care about the people.  Marketing 101, yo.

tl;dr - Thread is out of proportions IMO.  Companies both had faults, one softly attacked the other to improve their image, and it's a basic tactic of ignoring all the facts and having people look at just the one thing that was comparable between the two.  There's other contributing factors that are ignored, and if anyone takes a moment to step back and do some research, they'll discover those other factors easily enough.


----------



## emigre (May 5, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> Emigre, sometimes I don't understand you, but you're still on my "top of GBATemp members" list.



It's nice to be appreciated.


----------



## DiscostewSM (May 5, 2012)

There's just something about the top dog of a company saying something about another company that riles people up. Whether good or bad, many people take what they say in the worst possible way, blowing it out of proportion. Society today......

People say what Miyamoto said was uncalled for, yet for all we know, this may not have been an "out-of-the-blue" swing at Sony. This may have been because a question was brought up by Edge about what he thinks about the current situation with the Vita, since it was no secret of their situation. Mr. Miyamoto even went as far as going into Nintendo's own similar problems when they released the 3DS. If you're trying to attack the competition, you don't go on about your own faults to make yourself look just as bad. How many people really think he was doing this to attack Sony? I honestly don't think he was.


Offtopic, who added a "crap" link to one of my earlier posts? I found that humorous.

_edit_:
Nvm, seems this link stuff is a feature on GBATemp. I like it.


----------



## Tsuteto (May 5, 2012)

Really?  So if I type crap will it do the same?  We'll find out!

As for the "[going] on about your own faults" thing, no, I do that sometimes too.  Think about it: Do you prefer someone who is overly cocky and points out other peoples flaws (whether attack-like or matter of fact-like) without recognizing their own, or do you prefer someone who can admit faults of their own while pointing out flaws in others?  I know personally, I prefer the latter, as the former just speaks that the person does not care for others, one way or another.  The latter, while being more leading to them caring about others, still does have a little room available for themselves to just know what to say to others to win them to their side.  Politics, essentially.  That's why it's important to know the person themselves.

As for speculating whether or not Miyamoto was directly attacking the other company: I'll ride the fence from a factual stand point, but note that on a personal level, I don't think he's directly attacking the company otherwise, and those who honestly think that, are just the greedy type person themselves who say "woe is me" when they lose their necklace or something, totally ignoring the person beside them who lost their club sandwich that they just spent their last dollar on.

... Okay, probably not to THAT degree, but you get the picture.

And if anyone is thinking, yes, I do like using examples and typing quite bit.  I have not mastered the art of speaking 10 powerful words in place of 1,000 conversative words, but it is something that will improve in time.

EDIT: And yeah, looks like it does auto-place that link in.  Dunno how I feel about that :/


----------



## alphamule (May 5, 2012)

Wait...  E3 still matters?  I think of it as Macworld for everyone else.  (Yes, this was slightly a joke - those shows matter to them, but not so much to users anymore.)


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 5, 2012)

Coto said:


> But they're still selling like hotcakes, so games, ports or whatever they are they're doing much better than Vita's sales. And they aren't that cheap you know



No, they're selling because they cut the price.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > But they're still selling like hotcakes, so games, ports or whatever they are they're doing much better than Vita's sales. And they aren't that cheap you know
> ...


The price cut was not the sole factor. I follow the sales threads over at Gaf and the price-cut only boosted sales for a short while. It was Mario Kart and 3D Land that really gave it the boost (again, games).


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 6, 2012)

soulx said:


> The price cut was not the sole factor. I follow the sales threads over at Gaf and the price-cut only boosted sales for a short while. It was Mario Kart and 3D Land that really gave it the boost (again, games).



They had big releases during the price cut (like Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, etc) and the system only spiked during them and then bombed back to its normal holding. The price cut was absolutely the #1 factor towards its current "success".


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > The price cut was not the sole factor. I follow the sales threads over at Gaf and the price-cut only boosted sales for a short while. It was Mario Kart and 3D Land that really gave it the boost (again, games).
> ...


Before the price-drop, (Aug 01 - Aug 07):


```
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  3DS  |      4.132 |     16.415 |            |  1.310.288 |            |   1.310.288 |
```


After the price-drop, (Aug 08 - Aug 14):


```
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  3DS  |    196.077 |      4.132 |            |  1.506.365 |            |   1.506.365 |
```


Soon after the pricedrop, (Sep 12 - Sep 18):


```
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  3DS  |     58.837 |     49.076 |            |  1.835.442 |            |   1.835.442 |
```

Super Mario 3D Land release, (Oct 31 - Nov 06)


```
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  3DS  |    145.271 |     65.041 |            |  2.356.915 |            |   2.356.915 |
```

Fucking Monster Hunter and Mario Kart 7 the week prior, (Dec 05 - Dec 11):


```
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  3DS  |    350.321 |    205.962 |            |  3.234.299 |            |   3.234.299 |
```

With this, it's easy to tell that while the price-drop did help boost sales a little, it was the games that brought a lasting sales boost. Ocarina of Time and Star Fox were simply remastered ports, not new games. That's why they didn't bring in a huge sales boost. If Sony wants the Vita to succeed, they need some notable games. Not just a price-drop.


----------



## alphamule (May 6, 2012)

Well, a price cut gets people who are holdouts to purchase because it's below or at their max.  That's common sense.  That leads to game sales from new system owners.  If your friend shows you a game, you're more likely to want to borrow or even buy the system.  These are intermingled causes, though.  The effect is overall growth in both, and very objective.  Which cause was the most important?  Not so much - it's feedback and has delay aspects as well.  I mean, talking from an economics POV, BOTH increased system BOTH system and games revenue.  Sadly, revenue isn't the same thing as profit.  Given tradition, you should expect systems to be 'loss leaders' while games barely break even after 'bribing' the retail channel and marketing and... Well, you get the idea.


----------



## emigre (May 6, 2012)

Regarding the price cut, it really blew my mind in how less than a year I was able to buy a 3DS at 45% off its original RRP.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 6, 2012)

emigre said:


> Regarding the price cut, it really blew my mind in how less than a year I was able to buy a 3DS at 45% off its original RRP.


Ehhhh that's not QUITE 45%... do the math and it comes to 32% off. But yeah, I agree, that was a pretty massive cut.


----------



## emigre (May 6, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding the price cut, it really blew my mind in how less than a year I was able to buy a 3DS at 45% off its original RRP.
> ...



That was the official price cut, I talking about what retailers are selling the thing for. £230 GBP at launch, now I can go into the supermarket and pick one up for around £120-130.


----------



## alphamule (May 6, 2012)

I wish my cable company didn't work the other way around.  Jumped 45% from one month to the next.  Yeah, going to hope it's a billing error (unlikely - this is Comcast we're talking about) but might just have to get off of cable.

If you see a 3DS 2 by October, then Nintendo has majorly screwed up.  They'd be forcing people who just now have started buying 3DS games, to split their money between the new system (definitely unprofitable) and games (possibly profitable).


----------



## Hop2089 (May 6, 2012)

Lets see (Vita)

The Vita does not have many RPGs exclusive to the Vita and only two decent ones and only Ragnarok Odyssey isn't a port out of the two.

No decent ecchi titles

No Monster Hunter

No real killer 1st party title (Japan only)

Lack of stable PSP support, UMD passport sucks and is Japan only

3DS

Has perfect DS support no passport shit required

Senran Kagura as a decent ecchi title and successful as well

New Love Plus for a way more than decent dating sim, Ciel no Surge is not good at all

Mario, Link, and Pit for first party

Pokemon for a decent RPG (although it's still DS), not to mention Conquest.

NES classics


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 6, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> Pokemon for a decent RPG (although it's still DS), not to mention Conquest.



Your complaints seem to be "it's not Japanese enough" and this complaint altogether is just completely contradictory. You'll bash the Vita for not having "good RPGs" but praise the 3DS for having a DS RPG? You do realize you can get like Persona 1-3 Portable, Dissidia 012, and others on the PSN Store? Yeah, you have to pay for them if you didn't purchase a digital copy already, but they're still RPGs playable on the system.


----------



## Hop2089 (May 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Hop2089 said:
> 
> 
> > Pokemon for a decent RPG (although it's still DS), not to mention Conquest.
> ...



I meant lack of Vita exclusive RPGs, and yes it really is not Japanese enough, you see how bad it sells there, there's little there to import that's Vita exclusive.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 6, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> I meant lack of Vita exclusive RPGs, and yes it really is not Japanese enough, you see how bad it sells there, there's little there to import that's Vita exclusive.



Because the 3DS isn't lacking 3DS exclusive RPGs?

Also the whole "it's not Japanese enough" is an incredibly niche argument.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Also the whole "it's not Japanese enough" is an incredibly niche argument.


Agreed. This is one of those "extremely rare personal preference" type deals that means nothing in the greater argument of which system is "better". Granted, MOST points in such arguments are matters of opinion, but you know what i mean.


----------



## emigre (May 6, 2012)

I would never buy a Vita if all it had was shit japanese dating sims and ecchi games. I have fucking standards.


----------



## jalaneme (May 6, 2012)

AceWarhead said:


> Everything here is all true.




this is what current gen consists of, ports and remakes and HD collections so you keep buying the same game over and over but with just a new paint of coat, game developers are too lazy to design something original in fear of loosing money! (both nintendo and sony do this)

as for the topic, at least the 3DS doesn't have online passes heavy restricted DRM and DLC to rip you off, yeah it has only 1 analogue stick but the other negatives i mentioned completely surpass that.


----------



## WiiUBricker (May 6, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Nintendo should learn for Sony that one analog control is a poor choice.


At least Nintendo provided a second analog stick via additional hardware later and will have it build in its next 3DS version. Not optimal, but better than nothing I guess.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 6, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> as for the topic, at least the 3DS doesn't have online passes heavy restricted DRM and DLC to rip you off, yeah it has only 1 analogue stick but the other negatives i mentioned completely surpass that.



By "heavy restricted DRM" you mean "oh noes i have to connect to the internet when i transfer some music and crap over".

Online passes, who gives a fuck. Honestly I'm getting sick of people bitching about it. You bought the game used for a pretty nice discount and to no joy of the developers and publishers who want to actually make a profit off of their work and you complain about them not being able to get a slice of the pie? Buy games that need online passes new, buy everything else used for Christ's sake.

Also, no one forces DLC down your throat and when people start saying "It has DLC!" as a counterargument then you're just highlighting the lack of it on another console. Maybe you get a few shitty costumes as DLC but what happens when it comes down to quality, post-launch developed DLC? Plenty of games have this. Mass Effect 2 and Borderlands for instance.

There's also plenty of other hardware negatives that the 3DS has in comparison to the Vita. Love the games all you want, hardware wise the 3DS is streets behind.



WiiBricker said:


> At least Nintendo provided a second analog stick via additional hardware later and will have it build in its next 3DS version. Not optimal, but better than nothing I guess.



That you have to pay extra for. People complain about DLC but when it comes to buying what should have been a present hardware feature it's absolutely fine.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 6, 2012)

WiiBricker said:


> At least Nintendo provided a second analog stick via additional hardware later and will have it build in its next 3DS version. Not optimal, but better than nothing I guess.


This is one of the few instances where I'm going to say nothing is better.... trust me. 

jk... sort of. But seriously. In a way, I almost wish there was no CPP. That way companies like Capcom would be more inclined to add stylus aiming to games like RE:R. That would be way better than the single stick and face button aiming options presented, in my opinion.

Or Nintendo could have been smart and included a second analog in the first place. -_-


----------



## MelodieOctavia (May 6, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> AceWarhead said:
> 
> 
> > Everything here is all true.
> ...



Look, I'm not a Sony or Nintendo fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but lets cut the BS, okay?

Right now, both systems are shit. *Yep. I said it.... Oh come on, don't give me that look.*  I don't mean the systems themselves, but the current software lineup is paltry at best on both ends.

If you really take a step back and look at both systems, compared to launches of the previous generation, both systems have some gaping flaws. Most of them being software related. Take off your fanboy goggles for a second and take a cold hard look at reality.


----------



## xwatchmanx (May 6, 2012)

I was kinda out of touch from the end of the GCN/GBA era until early this year, so I don't know much about the launches of the DS/PSP era, but I agree. These launches are just abysmal. Remember when launches used to have at least one or two huge killer apps, and some smaller titles that were genuinely good to go with them?


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 6, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Remember when launches used to have at least one or two huge killer apps, and some smaller titles that were genuinely good to go with them?



I already gotta two Vita killer apps that are both launch titles (Lumines and Dynasty Warriors Next).

The Vita had a good launch line up. I don't see why people bash it. It was rather varied and had a little something for everyone. It had racers (Motorstorm RC, ModNation Racers), puzzlers (Lumines, Escape Plan), action (Dynasty Warriors Next, Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus), action adventure (Uncharted), TPS (Uncharted again, Unit 13), fighters (UMvC3, BlazBlue), only thing it lacked really was a good RPG (Dungeon Hunter doesn't count since the game looks like shit). Otherwise it was a pretty good launch. Outside of game variety, it launched with a big brand first party (Uncharted) and had plenty of games to show off the system from all standpoints (graphics, features, hardware, etc).

If it launched with Warrior's Lair it'd probably be one of the best launches in years.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 6, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Look, I'm not a Sony or Nintendo fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but lets cut the BS, okay?
> 
> Right now, both systems are shit. Yep. I said it.... Oh come on, don't give me that look.  I don't mean the systems themselves, but the current software lineup is paltry at best on both ends.
> 
> If you really take a step back and look at both systems, compared to launches of the previous generation, both systems have some gaping flaws. Most of them being software related. Take off your fanboy goggles for a second and take a cold hard look at reality.


I disagree with this. Whether a system is shit or not is subjective. If you've got enjoyment out of a 3DS or Vita (which is possible considering Revelations, Uncharted and MGS) and it has fullfilled your expectations, said system is not considered shit. And I hope you realize that there has rarely ever been a good launch line-up. The 3DS and Vita are no different there.

To be honest, the 3DS's software library isn't bad at all for a system that's been out for about a year. The only thing that makes it as bad as some say is the tastes of those people.

- Super Mario 3D Land
- Kid Icarus Uprising
- Pushmo
- Mario Kart 7
- Metal Gear Solid 3D Snake Eater
- Ocarina of Time 3D
- Pilotwings Resort
- VVVVVV
- Dead or Alive: Dimensions
- Star Fox 3D
- Super Street Fighter IV 3D Edition
- Resident Evil Revelations
- Mutant Mudds
- Mighty Switch Force
- Tales of the Abyss 3D
- Monster Hunter (for them Japanese folks right now)

I would say that the system has redeemed its $250 launch price with the games I've played on it (the Ambassador games helped).


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## emigre (May 6, 2012)

soulx said:


> I would say that the system has redeemed its $250 launch price with the games I've played on it (the Ambassador games helped).



I would disagree heavily with that. The thought of paying £230 at launch and than being able to pick the console up for nearly half the price so early in its life would make me feel ill. £230 is a lot of money and I know I would be angered to no end about it. I nearly picked up a 3DS for £200, literally a fortnight before the price cut was announced and I feel I had a lucky escape. And no, playing ten NES ten GBA games, would not make up for the money lost. I can't imagine anyone with an once of fiscal responsibility actually agreeing you there.

EDIT: About half of the titles you mentioned are remakes/ports/enhance remakes. Funnily enough I own most of those games that have been remade/ported for the 3DS.


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## Hadrian (May 6, 2012)

Compared to GB/GBC/GBA the 3DS wasn't up to standard. Not to say there weren't any great games but frankly to nothing that makes its "must have". Its one of those where once enough games were released it was worth having like it is now. Future releases look damn fine too. To me it has done better than the DS initially did in its first year.

Vita...well I wouldn't call it overpriced at all,I mean this is high quality tech BUT again with 3DS nothing that makes me want the system and to be honest there is nothing on the line up either that I want.  Like the PSP it'll be one of those worth owning at some point but to be honest the kind of games it offers I can get elsewhere easily.

Not shitting on those who are happy with the Vita, its just that Sony games don't have that certain something that Nintendo games have.


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## Foxi4 (May 6, 2012)

emigre said:


> EDIT: About half of the titles you mentioned are remakes/ports/enhance remakes. Funnily enough I own most of those games that have been remade/ported for the 3DS.


That's the problem I had with the whole Ambassador system. You get games for free - that's the cool part, I approve of that, it's only fair that Nintendo does it since the early adopters really had reasons to complain after the price drop and it's very generous of them to give those people something in return.

What I don't like is that it's Nintendo who picks which titles you get and which you don't. Let's face it - early 3DS adopters are mostly long-term Nintendo fans who already have a GBA and more than likely the games that were ported. The other part are children who recieved the 3DS as a gift when it was launched, and those have little interest in retro gaming at this point.

All in all, the group of people that this kind of strategy appeals to is rather small.

What SHOULD'VE been done was giving the Ambassadors free Points that they could spend in the eShop or give them tokens to buy a number of free games of their choosing. People who like retro style would choose whatever Virtual Console titles they want, people who aren't really into it would just pick some new ones. That, and GBA games should be available to everyone, not just the chosen few.

This way, everyone's happy with their "refund". My girlfriend is an early adopter and after she saw the game list offered... she just went "meh" and didn't even sign up. I can understand why, seeing that she *already has* the GBA games she was interested in.


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## Coto (May 6, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Hop2089 said:
> ...



Don't worry you've made some good points here. After all the 3DS games/software mentioned in fact, (along with soulx sales paragraph) really show Nintendo software to be quite successful in both selling and Nintendo's 1st party software support.

Which vita lacks and hence, what Miyamoto was saying.




Guild McCommunist said:


> Coto said:
> 
> 
> > But they're still selling like hotcakes, so games, ports or whatever they are they're doing much better than Vita's sales. And they aren't that cheap you know
> ...



No, because even if they screwed up by doing the price cut to later 3DS owners, pissing off earlier adopters, they gave 3DS a nice software support in the end, and it's printing money like mad. Whatever the point may be, they're doing better at sales, once again.


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## heartgold (May 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: About half of the titles you mentioned are remakes/ports/enhance remakes. Funnily enough I own most of those games that have been remade/ported for the 3DS.
> ...



I had a GBA, but the only thing I played on it was Pokemon, all the ambassador games were new to me so good deal. 

Can't speak on behalf of others if they liked it too. XD I don't care either.


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## emigre (May 6, 2012)

heartgold said:


> *I had a GBA, but the only thing I played on it was Pokemon,* all the ambassador games were new to me so good deal.



The more I hear about your gaming choices, the more I feel disgusted with you.


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## Skelletonike (May 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I already gotta two Vita killer apps that are both launch titles (Lumines and Dynasty Warriors Next).
> 
> The Vita had a good launch line up. I don't see why people bash it. It was rather varied and had a little something for everyone. It had racers (Motorstorm RC, ModNation Racers), puzzlers (Lumines, Escape Plan), action (Dynasty Warriors Next, Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus), action adventure (Uncharted), TPS (Uncharted again, Unit 13), fighters (UMvC3, BlazBlue), only thing it lacked really was a good RPG (Dungeon Hunter doesn't count since the game looks like shit). Otherwise it was a pretty good launch. Outside of game variety, it launched with a big brand first party (Uncharted) and had plenty of games to show off the system from all standpoints (graphics, features, hardware, etc).
> 
> If it launched with Warrior's Lair it'd probably be one of the best launches in years.



TBH, the one game that made me really want to buy the 3DS at launch was Samurai Warriors Chronicles, most people hate that game, but heck, I just love it, having my own character in the Samurai Warrior world,  helping Nobunaga Oda and other great generals, killing thousands of enemies... It's just so awesome... Not to mention the several levels of dificulty, it's by far the 3DS game where I've clocked the most hours, easily over 100h.
Other then that there weren't really any games that hyped me up for it, heck, the second game I got for it was Zelda, and that was like several months after being released (although I own a few more games but in general, it's still a very small collection compared to the amount of games I already had by now with previous consoles).

Although the same goes for the Vita, besides Persona 4 The Golden and Dynasty Warriors Next there's nothing I really want (same for the upcoming games), as for the 3DS, the only one I really, really want is Fire Emblem. =3

Both consoles are pretty sad so far, actually.


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## Flame (May 6, 2012)

emigre said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > *I had a GBA, but the only thing I played on it was Pokemon,* all the ambassador games were new to me so good deal.
> ...



pokemon games are addictive, you sir are a hater.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 6, 2012)

Flame said:


> pokemon games are addictive, you sir are a hater.



He was emphasizing on the lack of games he played during that generation, not that he played Pokemon.


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## DiscostewSM (May 6, 2012)

Flame said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...



I used to be addicted to the Pokemon games back during the GB/A days, but now, it's kinda 'meh'.


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## heartgold (May 6, 2012)

emigre said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > I had a GBA, but the only thing I played on it was Pokemon*,* all the ambassador games were new to me so good deal.
> ...



It's the only reason I brought a GBA SP for, none of other games interested me.  I was not gonna fork out money for mediocre games that I'd never play. If my taste sucks, so be it.


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## Foxi4 (May 6, 2012)

heartgold said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...


Oh c'mon - Doom Advance? Mario Kart Advance (a great Mario Kart game, that I will admit), Sonic Advance 1 through 3? Golden Sun 1 and 2? LoZ: Minish Cap? Castlevania? Harvest Moon?

The GBA is literally *brimming* with great games, saying that it was only good for Pokemon is blasphemy. Most of the top-tier GBA stuff has everlasting appeal.


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## emigre (May 6, 2012)

I think what Heartgold is saying he doesn't like video games.


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## smile72 (May 6, 2012)

I agree, I believe the poor sales of the Vita is mainly due to lack of games.


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## heartgold (May 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > emigre said:
> ...


Then it's fair to say my handheld gaming knowledge was limited, never knew who or what Zelda was untill after playing the DS versions. XD

I think I emulated Mariokart and the sonic games back in the day, they were great.


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## emigre (May 6, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Then it's fair to say my handheld gaming knowledge was limited, *never knew who or what Zelda was untill after playing the DS versions.* XD
> 
> I think I emulated Mariokart and the sonic games back in the day, they were great.



For fuck's sake...


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## heartgold (May 6, 2012)

emigre said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Then it's fair to say my handheld gaming knowledge was limited, *never knew who or what Zelda was untill after playing the DS versions.* XD
> ...


Grew up with Megadrive, PS1 and then PS2. No Nintendo home consoles.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh c'mon - Doom Advance? Mario Kart Advance (a great Mario Kart game, that I will admit), Sonic Advance 1 through 3? Golden Sun 1 and 2? LoZ: Minish Cap? Castlevania? Harvest Moon?
> 
> The GBA is literally *brimming* with great games, saying that it was only good for Pokemon is blasphemy. Most of the top-tier GBA stuff has everlasting appeal.


Amen to this.

One of my favourite games on the GBA is Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Such a stellar RPG.



heartgold said:


> Then it's fair to say my handheld gaming knowledge was limited, never knew who or what Zelda was untill after playing the DS versions. XD


The DS versions? You mean the worst Zelda games?



Hadrian said:


> Not shitting on those who are happy with the Vita, its just that Sony games don't have that certain something that Nintendo games have.


The issue with this is that Sony doesn't put their A-teams on handheld games like Nintendo. We'll never get an Uncharted for the Vita by Naughty Dog or a Vita God of War game made solely by Santa Monica. Nintendo puts their main-teams on handheld games which is why their games come out as polished as they do.


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## emigre (May 6, 2012)

heartgold said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...



That is not an excuse.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Sonic Advance 1 through 3?



OMG Those were like crack. I couldn't stop playing them. I cannot think any other handheld Sonic game that was amazing as those three.


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## heartgold (May 6, 2012)

soulx said:


> The DS versions? You mean the worst Zelda games?


Yes, I adore the controls so much, I would love the next 3DS Zelda game to use the stylus control again.  



emigre said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Grew up with Megadrive, PS1 and then PS2. No Nintendo home consoles.
> ...


How is it not, when I have no access to a Nintendo console so I will not be looking up games for it. The kids only ever talked about PS1 and PS2. N64 and GC  games were never discussed with friends during school days so there's no way of me finding out what that system had.


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## emigre (May 6, 2012)

heartgold said:


> How is it not, when I have no access to a Nintendo console so I will not be looking up games for it. The kids only ever talked about PS1 and PS2. N64 and GC  games were never discussed with friends during school days so there's no way of me finding out what that system had.



I so hope you're trolling me.


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## heartgold (May 6, 2012)

emigre said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > How is it not, when I have no access to a Nintendo console so I will not be looking up games for it. The kids only ever talked about PS1 and PS2. N64 and GC  games were never discussed with friends during school days so there's no way of me finding out what that system had.
> ...


Honestly. -Sigh-


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## Deleted_171835 (May 7, 2012)

heartgold said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > The DS versions? You mean the worst Zelda games?
> ...


Uh, no. Those controls were only good with those games because the DS lacked an analog stick. A 3DS Zelda should keep the controls from OOT 3D (Circle-pad for movement).


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## Foxi4 (May 7, 2012)

Get off heartgold's back people, he missed on a lot of GBA games but now you're just smothering him.

In any case, the GBA was a games powerhouse back in the day but that was no excuse for Nintendo to shove them down Ambassadors throats - they should've been given points instead but what's done is done.


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## xwatchmanx (May 7, 2012)

I kinda agree Foxi4, but at the same time, you have to remember that the eShop's choices were absolutely abysmal at the time. Something tells me that more people would have been upset about credit, than the amassador games. And sure, I guess they could've ported together a larger variety of GBA games and let ambassadors choose, but honestly how much time would Nintendo have had to port many more games? You know?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> The issue with this is that Sony doesn't put their A-teams on handheld games like Nintendo. We'll never get an Uncharted for the Vita by Naughty Dog or a Vita God of War game made solely by Santa Monica. Nintendo puts their main-teams on handheld games which is why their games come out as polished as they do.



Yet these Uncharteds and God of Wars are still pretty damn good so who gives a fuck whose making them.



soulx said:


> Uh, no. Those controls were only good with those games because the DS lacked an analog stick. A 3DS Zelda should keep the controls from OOT 3D (Circle-pad for movement).



Hell that's not even an excuse, we've had Super Mario 64 and Kingdom Hearts run without an analog stick so why does a topdown Zelda have to suffer through awful controls? Not to mention the games were just terribly designed.


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## xwatchmanx (May 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Hell that's not even an excuse, we've had Super Mario 64 and Kingdom Hearts run without an analog stick so why does a topdown Zelda have to suffer through awful controls? Not to mention the games were just terribly designed.


The stylus motion controls were enough to turn me off after playing a grand total of ONCE. Regardless of how "good" they were or not, I hate touch controls as gimmicks. There's literally no logical reason to add touch controls for movement, and remove traditional dpad/circle pad for the sake of such a ridiculous gimmick. Plus, there are tons of good DS RPGs out there (most that I've played, in fact) that use traditional controls, but have fully usable touch screen movement and controls as well, as an option. They dont force them down your throat like Zelda does.


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## DiscostewSM (May 7, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I kinda agree Foxi4, but at the same time, you have to remember that the eShop's choices were absolutely abysmal at the time. Something tells me that more people would have been upset about credit, than the amassador games. And sure, I guess they could've ported together a larger variety of GBA games and let ambassadors choose, but honestly how much time would Nintendo have had to port many more games? You know?



I honestly don't think they ported them. More of what they did with running DS games via a hypervisor, but probably have some emulation for those things the 3DS can't do. Probably some tuning on an individual title basis, but most of the work has been done as shown by the number of titles already available to Ambassadors.

I've noticed a rather lack of Virtual Console games being released in NA for the 3DS recently. Japan continues to get more, and Europe has a decent set.


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## gamefan5 (May 7, 2012)

heartgold said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...


Omg, you need to go back to playing the greatest nintendo games ever. HOW COULD YOU EVER MISS THOSE GEMS?? And you started playing Zelda games with the DS games?



Spoiler



*facepalm



You have commited a sin in the the sacred gaming kingdom. XD
Edit: I'm sorry this is too much for me to take. To think that a ninty gamer MISSED so much games...
Like guild said, this is unheard of.


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## DanTheManMS (May 7, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Hell that's not even an excuse, we've had Super Mario 64 and Kingdom Hearts run without an analog stick so why does a topdown Zelda have to suffer through awful controls? Not to mention the games were just terribly designed.
> ...


Gotta agree with you there.  I think Nintendo eventually came around to the same conclusion, shipping the DS Lite without the thumb stylus that came with the Phat (still got mine here I think, gave up on it after trying to play SM64S and Rayman DS with it and failing miserably).  I really wanted to like Sonic Dark Brotherhood -- I like Sonic and I like RPGs so it was a natural fit -- but the touchscreen-only controls bothered me enough that I never made it even halfway through the game (granted that wasn't the only reason I stopped playing it, but it was a major factor).  IMO the *only* game that was acceptable in using touchscreen-only controls was Elite Beat Agents, and that's just because of the nature of the game.


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## xwatchmanx (May 7, 2012)

DanTheManMS said:


> Gotta agree with you there.  I think Nintendo eventually came around to the same conclusion, shipping the DS Lite without the thumb stylus that came with the Phat (still got mine here I think, gave up on it after trying to play SM64S and Rayman DS with it and failing miserably).  I really wanted to like Sonic Dark Brotherhood -- I like Sonic and I like RPGs so it was a natural fit -- but the touchscreen-only controls bothered me enough that I never made it even halfway through the game (granted that wasn't the only reason I stopped playing it, but it was a major factor).  IMO the *only* game that was acceptable in using touchscreen-only controls was Elite Beat Agents, and that's just because of the nature of the game.


Dude, I legit gave up on Sonic Chronicles after about 2 minutes of trying to navigate the overworld map with touch controls. I hated it that bad. >.<

You know what else was a great touchscreen-only game, though? Kirby Mass Attack. Easily one of the most addictive DS games I've ever played


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