# Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States



## yusuo (Nov 7, 2020)

"Joe Biden will become the 46th president of the United States, CNN projects, after a victory in the state where he was born put him over the 270 electoral votes needed to win.

With Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes, Biden now has a total of 273 electoral votes."

The reign of hatred is over.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-biden-election-results-11-07-20/index.html


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## Intronaut (Nov 7, 2020)

INB4 rage posts start


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## Xzi (Nov 7, 2020)

Intronaut said:


> INB4 sandstorm


Is this a thing?


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## Intronaut (Nov 7, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Is this a thing?




hahaha, maybe I used a bad equivalent. In Spanish we say that a sandstorm comes when something like this happens and a lot of angry people start to comment.

We generally use this image:


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## VinsCool (Nov 7, 2020)

Intronaut said:


> hahaha, maybe I used a bad equivalent. In Spanish we say that a sandstorm comes when something like this happens and a lot of angry people start to comment.
> 
> We generally use this image:


Either winner would bring angry people.
It's only natural.

Like they said 4 years ago, crying over something won't change it.


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## MikaDubbz (Nov 7, 2020)

Goodbye Trump, you wont be missed

this is on repeat for me right now lol


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## The Catboy (Nov 7, 2020)

I’ve already said my controversial opinions on Biden in the other thread but for this one, I am just happy to see Trump lost


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## Chary (Nov 7, 2020)

What a freaking close race it was for a while. It was exciting to watch.


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## SonowRaevius (Nov 7, 2020)

4 years of being called libtard, cuck, or snowflake just for so much as saying you disagree with anything trump said is finally over.

I disliked trump, but I absolutely despised his base for pretty much completely destroying reasonable political disagreements and discourse.


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## leon315 (Nov 7, 2020)

oOH NOOOOOO!
NOW The Orange man's gone 
who asks millions of american to NOT wear masks?
WHO MAKES AMERICA WEAK AGAIN?


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## CompassNorth (Nov 7, 2020)

pic.twitter.com/f0GqF1jHkv— images with fitting ffxiv music (@fittingxivsongs) November 7, 2020



Now hopefully we can get a second round of stimulus checks


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## Alexander1970 (Nov 7, 2020)

Congratulations to America,good Luck to the World.


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## GatoFiestero (Nov 7, 2020)

Bye bye Trump


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## Magnus87 (Nov 7, 2020)

My condolences to all Americans.

I hope I'm wrong but Biden is going to make the United States lose power. I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.

I am in favor of the alternation of parties, however I consider that it is not the best moment since the North American policies not only influence their own territory but also the rest of the world.


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## Lacius (Nov 7, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.


He objectively did not.


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## JaapDaniels (Nov 7, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> My condolences to all Americans.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but Biden is going to make the United States lose power. I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.
> 
> I am in favor of the alternation of parties, however I consider that it is not the best moment since the North American policies not only influence their own territory but also the rest of the world.


biden already did improve the power of united states by erase the biggest loser of all time.


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## yusuo (Nov 7, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> My condolences to all Americans.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but Biden is going to make the United States lose power. I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.
> 
> I am in favor of the alternation of parties, however I consider that it is not the best moment since the North American policies not only influence their own territory but also the rest of the world.


Any idea how I downvote a comment


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## JuanBaNaNa (Nov 7, 2020)

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE WALL WE WERE PROMISED?


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## Delerious (Nov 7, 2020)

Frankly, I'm just glad the election process is coming to a close. I really didn't care which way things went between two senile old geezers and their forgettable VP candidates.

But I must ask Kentucky and the California 12th district something: *Why the HELL did you guys put Mitch and Nancy back in?*


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## LDAsh (Nov 7, 2020)

Also bye-bye Taiwan...

But hey, all the upcoming dementia memes are gonna be priceless.


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## Alexander1970 (Nov 7, 2020)

> "The simple fact is that this election is far from over,"



...said Trump....


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## Deleted User (Nov 7, 2020)

Hooray to Joe Biden! 
Kamela Harris has good chances to become the first female president of the USA!


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## JuanBaNaNa (Nov 7, 2020)

I guess this joke is irrelevant now:
Failed to fetch tweet https://mobile.twitter.com/Ju4nM3n4/status/1324463940483665921


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## SonowRaevius (Nov 7, 2020)




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## LumInvader (Nov 7, 2020)

This is officially the best thread in the history of gbatemp.


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## DeMoN (Nov 7, 2020)

Just pray the Supreme Court doesn't try to pull a fast one on us.


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## D34DL1N3R (Nov 7, 2020)




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## MikaDubbz (Nov 7, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> My condolences to all Americans.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but Biden is going to make the United States lose power. I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.
> 
> I am in favor of the alternation of parties, however I consider that it is not the best moment since the North American policies not only influence their own territory but also the rest of the world.


You can keep your condolences, for many Americans, myself included, this is an incredibly joyous day.


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## chrisrlink (Nov 7, 2020)

I've been waiting four years to say this.....DONALD TRUMP YOU'RE FIRED


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## dAVID_ (Nov 7, 2020)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT JUST COUNT THE MAIL-IN BALLOTS!!!!!!!!!! THEY'RE FRAUDULENT, TRUMP SAID SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Xzi (Nov 7, 2020)

Only way Trump gets to 270 now is if he drops about 60 lbs.

(Unfortunately I can't take credit for that one, it's all over the internet.)


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## SonowRaevius (Nov 7, 2020)




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## ghjfdtg (Nov 7, 2020)

Someone needs to make a back to the future "YOU'RE FIRED!!!" meme out of this.


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## mehrab2603 (Nov 7, 2020)

I am really glad to see Trump getting screwed over. Can't wait for his upcoming debt issues to make his future a nightmare. As for Biden, congratulations to him and the American people. I just hope Biden won't be a 3rd term Obama in terms of continuing to mess up the middle east like Obama.


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## VashTS (Nov 7, 2020)

you think trump supports were hate fueled while he was in power? beware the power of hatred while scorned.


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## Xzi (Nov 7, 2020)

VashTS said:


> you think trump supports were hate fueled while he was in power? beware the power of hatred while scorned.


Yeah, if Trump supporters commit just a few more acts of domestic terrorism, surely that will convince everybody they voted for the wrong guy.


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## MikaDubbz (Nov 7, 2020)

VashTS said:


> you think trump supports were hate fueled while he was in power? beware the power of hatred while scorned.


I wouldn't put it past Trump supporters to do something incredibly stupid and violent over losing.  But we certainly can't let fear of domestic terrorism dictate who becomes or stays president.


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## AmandaRose (Nov 7, 2020)

Good riddance to the racist homophobic transphobic lying criminal orange faced baffon scummy whispy haired incompressible jizztrumpet weaselheaded fucknuggetcock juggling thundercunt! Trump.


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## p1ngpong (Nov 7, 2020)

Biden's attempted fraud will be righted by the supreme court and President Trump will finish off his last 4 years just like his first. With strong leadership, dignity, pride and wise decision making that benefits America and the world.


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## magico29 (Nov 7, 2020)

Also Joe  great-grandfather Biden become the oldest president  in USA.


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## D34DL1N3R (Nov 7, 2020)

p1ngpong said:


> Biden's attempted fraud will be righted by the supreme court and President Trump will finish off his last 4 years just like his first. With strong leadership, dignity, pride and wise decision making that benefits America and the world.



Not sure if you're serious, trolling, and not the brightest bulb in the bunch, or being sarcastic



magico29 said:


> Also Joe  great-grandfather Biden become the oldest president  in USA.



Um. You do realize right, that Biden is only 3 and a half years older than Trump? So much for trying to project that Trump is some young, fit, and mentally stable genius.


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## JaNDeRPeiCH (Nov 7, 2020)

To the fellow Gbatempers Americans(USA):

I hope with your new president erase all the mistakes made Donald Trump and your Economic&Jobs gets restored again.

Now the next in your target its to quit the job from Ajit Pai,The American Association Riflee dismantle it forever and also the DCMA rules.


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## Taleweaver (Nov 7, 2020)

Congratulations Joe. Best of luck. You're going to need it! Still... For now : 


Also a reluctant congratulations to Donald Trump. I never thought he'd actually make a full first term, but he did and somehow managed to get a decent chance at being re-elected. 
(...which is actually an insult to the US, but ey... It's not my fault that more people voted for him now than in 2016)


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## D34DL1N3R (Nov 7, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Congratulations Joe. Best of luck. You're going to need it! Still... For now :
> 
> 
> Also a reluctant congratulations to Donald Trump. I never thought he'd actually make a full first term, but he did and somehow managed to get a decent chance at being re-elected.
> (...which is actually an insult to the US, but ey... It's not my fault that more people voted for him now than in 2016)



While technically you are correct, I don't personally really see it as more people voted for Trump than in 2016. Just that more people voted. For both sides. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by just under 3 million votes. This time around he's (so far) lost the popular vote by over 4 million. Sooooooo.


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## Taleweaver (Nov 7, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> While technically you are correct, I don't personally really see it as more people voted for Trump than in 2016. Just that more people voted. For both sides. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by just under 3 million votes. This time around he's (so far) lost the popular vote by over 4 million. Sooooooo.


I don't dispute any of that. More so : I'm sure that Trump's behavior directly caused a massive influx of previously unregistered voters (jeez... The guy openly wanted to fire the top disease expert hardly a week before the election. Even if all the lies trump's fanclub cooked up were true, Biden would still be the better choice)


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## JaNDeRPeiCH (Nov 7, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> While technically you are correct, I don't personally really see it as more people voted for Trump than in 2016. Just that more people voted. For both sides. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by just under 3 million votes. This time around he's (so far) lost the popular vote by over 4 million. Sooooooo.



The half of the Americans vote for Trump,that half needs a reeducation.They need to know the difference beetwen truth and lies .Also they need to know support Trump its supporting the hate of your fellow Americans.


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## Alexander1970 (Nov 7, 2020)

CNN host Van Jones was so touched that he burst into tears live on air....


 

Well, the Americans loved Trump very much.....


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## Stealphie (Nov 7, 2020)

Grab the popcorn, everyone!


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## scroeffie1984 (Nov 7, 2020)

lol


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## Hambrew (Nov 7, 2020)

yayo clake


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## BeastMode6 (Nov 7, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> 4 years of being called libtard, cuck, or snowflake just for so much as saying you disagree with anything trump said is finally over.
> 
> I disliked trump, but I absolutely despised his base for pretty much completely destroying reasonable political disagreements and discourse.


The same can be said for the left calling people racist and ___phobic. Realistically, neither side wants a debate, which is why I still want Yang. Him and a handful of others are the only principled ones left on the political scene here in america, all everyone else is concerned about is winning and sticking it to the other side, which I can't stand. Yang can talk to people like Ben Shapiro and then go on CNN the next week. He is the great uniter that this country desperately needs right now, and I don't see that in Biden or Harris (or Trump).

I mean at least Trump will be gone? I'm not convinced that what we replaced him with is that much better, TBH. I just don't see Biden making the big changes that a Sanders or Yang would. Also, I highly doubt that Trump is going to disappear from from the public eye, he will still be here making all these dumb statements, and he will still retain a following.

Hopefully I'm wrong though. Congratulations and best of luck to Biden and Harris. At least Ajit Pai will be gone soon, that's a win.


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## GBAer (Nov 7, 2020)

I'll give Biden six months before hes already forgotten that he was elected the new President of the United  States of America.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Nov 7, 2020)

LDAsh said:


> Also bye-bye Taiwan...



Taiwan is part of China. Both Beijing and Taipei agree. They just disagree what it means.

Americans are stupid enough to risk WW3 for sth that does not concern them. Imagine Alaska declared independence after a crisis in the US. Would China "defend" Alaska to the point of war with a nuclear power? The arrogance of the West is unmatched. It is the continuation of colonialism and fascism.
Biden is no different than Trump. At least Trump didn´t call the Chinese president a "thug" in front of hundreds of millions of people.


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## djpannda (Nov 7, 2020)

every ones talking about all the issues in the US but item 2 in my list is the FCC and Ajit, he needs to be replaced and net neutrality restored to bring real change to have standardize internet speeds through the US. its a a crime that NYC has 1gig service cheap  and most of Iowa has 6mbs DSL for 100$ ( just an example)


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## Deleted User (Nov 7, 2020)

GBAer said:


> I'll give Biden six months before hes already forgotten that he was elected the new President of the United  States of America.



6 months? He probably already forgot.






P.s. don't look at my username and think I'm Joe Biden I am not, thank you.


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## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

Crosspost from the other thread:

FT:


> https://www.ft.com/content/7eef4ec9-0dc5-4880-bb89-1fc83a72ad84
> 
> Biden risks being a lame duck president The real lesson from Tuesday’s hotly contested vote is that the US is almost ungovernable EDWARD LUCE
> 
> ...



New York Magazine:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/bidens-lame-duck-presidency.html

NYT:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020110...2020/11/07/opinion/biden-moderate-agenda.html

The Economist:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/11/05/what-the-2020-results-say-about-americas-future
(slightly different spin)


US is stuck, democrats have no read on voters, people on gbatemp are still caught in obsessing over unimportant theatrics. Educating american people about real world politics? Impossible. Symbols or nothing. And who slept with whom. Otherwise you wont even make news.

What inciting extremism and violence? Hey, those are good people too. Telling your voters that they have the better genes? Just another Tuesday. Surviving four change votes in a row without the tiniest piece of change in outlook or direction? Thats politics you can trust in. Reducing popular candidates to mere sockpuppets - main objective of the DNC... Shall I continue?

Oh, but one more. Activating more young voters than ever before, just to have them outbooted, by boomers voting Biden for president, but their republican senator to benefit their stock portfolio.

This was an election about Covid? No - not at all, Covid was addressed on the federal level, and Democrats lost both the senate (to be seen, but likely) and picks in the house.

Reality management. Nothing means what the common narrative tells you it does. Nothing is real. Its all about perceived personal advantages/short term interests and putting on a fake civil smile (in the form of a president that likely will not matter at all) at the same time.

Oh, and last time it was russia, and the protest vote of the weighning white male voter? This time its Democrats having forgotten, that latinos and black people exist. To be addressed in their needs. The protest vote? No protest at all. Just normal america, made to look 'temporarily confused' by storytelling for four years. Four years later it turned out to be the norm.


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## weatMod (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> 4 years of being called libtard, cuck, or snowflake just for so much as saying you disagree with anything trump said is finally over.
> 
> I disliked trump, but I absolutely despised his base for pretty much completely destroying reasonable political disagreements and discourse.


Trump is a libtard, a cuck, and snowflake though


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## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

Politics of "the first":

The finance resort is speculated to go to Raphael Bostic, currently head of the Federal Reseve Bank of Atlanta, who would be the first black, and the first homosexual in that office.

Or to Lael Brainard, currently on the board of the US Fed, who would be the first women in that office.

Both are unironically statements that the left wing newspaper in my parts of the world brings today in print. Because thats the US democratic legacy. Gaining your 'prestige' on that level.

Identity politics ftw.


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## luigirockz (Nov 8, 2020)

Now we wait for the inauguration on January 20th


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## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

luigirockz said:


> Now we wait for the inauguration on January 20th


Also a funny scenario, if Trump doesnt concede by then, and still challenges the vote legally, you cant get him out of the white house.

The US then will have two presidents. Thats also a first... 

edit: Actually congress certifies the results of the electoral college two weeks before inauguration day, if thats delayed, then US doesnt know what to do. If the inauguration takes place, Biden presumably becomes the president, and can remove Trump from the White House by force.


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## chrisrlink (Nov 8, 2020)

mehrab2603 said:


> I am really glad to see Trump getting screwed over. Can't wait for his upcoming debt issues to make his future a nightmare. As for Biden, congratulations to him and the American people. I just hope Biden won't be a 3rd term Obama in terms of continuing to mess up the middle east like Obama.


trumps debt issues are the LEAST of his worries if all goes according to plan he'll rot in prison not to mention the copyright infringment lawsuits piling up for using songs without permission at his rallies and I seriously doubt biden will pardon him after the abuse of pardoning by trump himself


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## KingVamp (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Also a funny scenario, if Trump doesnt concede by then, and still challenges the vote legally, you cant get him out of the white house.
> 
> The US then will have two presidents. Thats also a first...
> 
> edit: Actually congress certifies the results of the electoral college two weeks before inauguration day, if thats delayed, then US doesnt know what to do. If the inauguration takes place, Biden presumably becomes the president, and can remove Trump from the White House by force.


Both of those scenarios would be/have been interesting to see.


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## chrisrlink (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Also a funny scenario, if Trump doesnt concede by then, and still challenges the vote legally, you cant get him out of the white house.
> 
> The US then will have two presidents. Thats also a first...
> 
> edit: Actually congress certifies the results of the electoral college two weeks before inauguration day, if thats delayed, then US doesnt know what to do. If the inauguration takes place, Biden presumably becomes the president, and can remove Trump from the White House by force.


if he exhaust the SCOTUS too quickly and it's thrown out he has no choice but to conceed i wish we could remove SCOTus Judges if they show corruption (Like giving trump the win as a favor despite a very wide gap between the 2 EC vote wise) if that happens i fear it will only get worse trump declaring martial law (though highly unlikely unless the GOP show their true colors but I'm sure the CIA has the authority to do "something" if he goes full blown dictator


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## luigirockz (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Also a funny scenario, if Trump doesnt concede by then, and still challenges the vote legally, you cant get him out of the white house.
> 
> The US then will have two presidents. Thats also a first...
> 
> edit: Actually congress certifies the results of the electoral college two weeks before inauguration day, if thats delayed, then US doesnt know what to do. If the inauguration takes place, Biden presumably becomes the president, and can remove Trump from the White House by force.



Haha yeah it depends when do terms end and begin. Didn't know congress certifies but that makes sense. I don't think Trump will need to be taken by force, he's just going to make it annoying until the very end, but we'll see...


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## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Ok so Biden wins I grant you that, but what about this thing we have still at least I thought called coronavirus? Look at these Democrat SUPERSPREADERS! 












There's not an exception made when your favorite candidate wins the Presidency. Social distancing is still supposed to apply.


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## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Ok so Biden wins I grant you that, but what about this thing we have still at least I thought called coronavirus? Look at these Democrat SUPERSPREADERS!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're right there should be more distance between most of these people, but at least they're wearing masks. Don't call them superspreaders without evidence of superspreading. Save that for Trump's rallies.


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## biggj (Nov 8, 2020)

As someone who lives in China. thank you for a Biden win. This is wonderful for China. If you live in America...well..good luck.


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## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

biggj said:


> As someone who lives in China. thank you for a Biden win. This is wonderful for China. If you live in America...well..good luck.


The whole world should be happy about a Biden win. For climate change reasons alone, the whole world should be happy about a Biden win.


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## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

surprised there haven't been braindead fucks invading this thread believing he won because he lied about losing who then proceed to spam posts saying "nO hE wOn By A lArGe MaRgIn EvEn ThOuGh ThE dEmS rIgGeD iT"
*GOOD THING THERE HAVEN'T BEEN*


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## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

biggj said:


> As someone who lives in China. thank you for a Biden win. This is wonderful for China. If you live in America...well..good luck.



Damn well said. 






--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> surprised there haven't been braindead fucks invading this thread believing he won because he lied about losing who then proceed to spam posts saying "nO hE wOn By A lArGe MaRgIn EvEn ThOuGh ThE dEmS rIgGeD iT"
> *GOOD THING THERE HAVEN'T BEEN*



I believe there was fraud and don't give two fucks if you disagree there's evidence everywhere. But I know they won't overturn it in Trump's favor.


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## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

biggj said:


> As someone who lives in China. thank you for a Biden win. This is wonderful for China. If you live in America...well..good luck.


we're screwed either way
but four years of basically absolute inaction is infinitely better than *four more years of trump*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> I believe there was fraud and don't give two fucks if you disagree there's evidence everywhere. But I know they won't overturn it in Trump's favor.


You're certainly right about there being fraud, but seem to be mistaken as to its creators.
(Seriously though, if we had the requisite lack of morals to rig things while still having the popular majority we do... _we wouldn't be stuck in the crappy stalemate things have ended up as._)


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## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> we're screwed either way
> but four years of basically absolute inaction is infinitely better than *four more years of trump*



Such braindead logic, Trump stood up to other countries for us even you Democrats. Biden will bow down to them and probably give them all our secrets

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> we're screwed either way
> but four years of basically absolute inaction is infinitely better than *four more years of trump*
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...



Are you trying to say Trump voters committed fraud? There's absolutely zero evidence of that. There's evidence in multiple states your party committed fraud.


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## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Such braindead logic, Trump stood up to other countries for us even you Democrats. Biden will bow down to them and probably give them all our secrets


Trump literally did nothing in response to bounties on American soliders' heads.


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## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> surprised there haven't been braindead fucks invading this thread believing he won because he lied about losing who then proceed to spam posts saying "nO hE wOn By A lArGe MaRgIn EvEn ThOuGh ThE dEmS rIgGeD iT"
> *GOOD THING THERE HAVEN'T BEEN*





ForgotWhoIam said:


> I believe there was fraud and don't give two fucks if you disagree there's evidence everywhere. But I know they won't overturn it in Trump's favor.





ForgotWhoIam said:


> Such braindead logic, Trump stood up to other countries for us even you Democrats. Biden will bow down to them and probably give them all our secrets


Oh for fucks sake why did I have to jinx it


ForgotWhoIam said:


> Are you trying to say Trump voters committed fraud? There's absolutely zero evidence of that. There's evidence in multiple states your party committed fraud.


for gods sake you guys looked at thousands upon thousands of blue votes and went *THIS BITCH EMPTY, YEET*
we did nothing of the sort
we have morals


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## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Oh for fucks sake why did I have to jinx it



You got nothing dude, you claim fraud from Trump voters prove it in the least. Lawyers are heading to court against your party and they have evidence. Do I trust the system enough to turn it over to Trump? No I do not, but the fraud happened.


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## biggj (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The whole world should be happy about a Biden win. For climate change reasons alone, the whole world should be happy about a Biden win.


China, doesn't have to do anything on climate change until 2030, the same as India. And even then who knows what will change. The problem is Dems got fucked over on down-ballot voting and the REP's most likely will keep the senate and with the majority of the reps in the supreme court....well joe Biden can't do much. He can only let China bleed America so much.  Either way its good for china.


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## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You got nothing dude, you claim fraud from Trump voters proof it in the least. Lawyers are heading to court against your party and they have evidence. Do I trust the system enough to turn it over to Trump? No I do not, but the fraud happened.


and where's your evidence either?
trump's goddamned tweets.
that's it.


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## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

biggj said:


> China, doesn't have to do anything on climate change until 2030, the same as India. And even then who knows what will change. The problem is Dems got fucked over on down-ballot voting and the REP's most likely will keep the senate and with the majority of the reps in the supreme court....well joe Biden can't do much. He can only let China bleed America so much.  Either way its good for china.



Applaud again you're a lot smarter than a lot of people in my country. Can we trade them for people like you? It'd probably be a win win they would probably love China.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> and where's your evidence either?
> trump's goddamned tweets.
> that's it.



Witnesses that were on TV that said they weren't allowed to witness the counting of the votes which they are supposed to be able to do. A witness in court is evidence. Until you have evidence of Trump supporters committing fraud stfu. 

I'm arguing with a 15 year old. I'm wasting my own time. Ignored.


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## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Witnesses that were on TV that said they weren't allowed to witness the counting of the votes which they are supposed to be able to do. A witness in court is evidence. Until you have evidence of Trump supporters committing fraud stfu.
> I'm arguing with a 15 year old. I'm wasting my own time. Ignored.


so your evidence is some random people that may or may not have any position warranting access to the votes as they're counted, showing up on TV and saying they were not allowed to see the votes being counted?
that's literally a guy showing up on TV and saying "I don't have this job, but they don't let me get the benefits from this job I don't have and that must be their fault".
also boy I sure love it when I counter someone's bullshit and they respond with "you're 15 ignored"
translating that into english produces something along the lines of "you win but I can't stand to admit it"
and yes, your time is being wasted fighting a losing battle


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## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Applaud again you're a lot smarter than a lot of people in my country. Can we trade them for people like you? It'd probably be a win win they would probably love China.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. The closest thing is Trump's attempts to arbitrarily throw out votes in states he was narrowly ahead in (but count the votes in states he was narrowly behind in).


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

I’m ready to see every actor, musician, etc who supports Biden complain when they get taxed up the wazoo because they make more then $400k  Oh well I’ll live with it for 4 years then vote for either Eric McCann or The Alliance Party


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 8, 2020)

if i'm not mistaken GA has two runoff elections for senate cant be decided til jan but if both go blue shit will get done under biden's presidency


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> if i'm not mistaken GA has two runoff elections for senate cant be decided til jan but if both go blue shit will get done under biden's presidency


Ah shii not the Green New Deal


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 8, 2020)

Pedo Joe's reign of terror begins on January. Kiss your first, second, third, and fourth amendments goodbye.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

That is unless the Michigan voting "glitch" existed throughout more parts of America.


----------



## Joe88 (Nov 8, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> if i'm not mistaken GA has two runoff elections for senate cant be decided til jan but if both go blue shit will get done under biden's presidency


the races wernt that close though, I doubt the people who voted libertarian are going to vote for the dem candidate, and the other had 2 republicans running, its not even close if you tally 2 candidates together


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

The election result is only as strong as the losing sides faith the process was legitimate which is non existantant, there are numerous credible allegations of fraud and still outstanding legal challenges, poll workers denied observations and irregularities across the board.  Anyone who thinks things are going to settle down you have 70 million Americans who view this entire situation as a Chinese/Democrat/Globalist coup.  People are about to see what a "Peaceful protest" really looks like.     Why did Joe Frazier not campaign for Biden since he voted for him?  Because he has been dead since 2011.  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...kipped-campaigning-joe-biden-dead-since-2011/


----------



## AsPika2219 (Nov 8, 2020)

Congratulations Joe Biden for becomes the next US President!  Keep moving forward!  Sayonara Donald Duck Trump!


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The election result is only as strong as the losing sides faith the process was legitimate which is non existantant, there are numerous credible allegations of fraud and still outstanding legal challenges, poll workers denied observations and irregularities across the board.  Anyone who thinks things are going to settle down you have 70 million Americans who view this entire situation as a Chinese/Democrat/Globalist coup.  People are about to see what a "Peaceful protest" really looks like.     Why did Joe Frazier not campaign for Biden since he voted for him?  Because he has been dead since 2011.  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...kipped-campaigning-joe-biden-dead-since-2011/


Somebody give this man all the electoral college votes in 2024


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The election result is only as strong as the losing sides faith the process was legitimate which is non existantant, there are numerous credible allegations of fraud and still outstanding legal challenges, poll workers denied observations and irregularities across the board.  Anyone who thinks things are going to settle down you have 70 million Americans who view this entire situation as a Chinese/Democrat/Globalist coup.  People are about to see what a "Peaceful protest" really looks like.     Why did Joe Frazier not campaign for Biden since he voted for him?  Because he has been dead since 2011.  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...kipped-campaigning-joe-biden-dead-since-2011/


B-b-but the mail-ins! T-they can't be f-faked!


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

It always amazes me that people who clamor on and on about "fake news" are the quickest to believe in it.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> View attachment 233157
> 
> It always amazes me that people who clamor on and on about "fake news" are the quickest to believe in it.


Ok maybe wrong choice of evidence but I bet it’s still out there


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> View attachment 233157
> 
> It always amazes me that people who clamor on and on about "fake news" are the quickest to believe in it.


If you refuse Gateway, you must also refuse far-left fake news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and Snopes.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you refuse Gateway, you must also refuse far-left fake news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and Snopes.


None of these are fake news. CNN and Snopes are not left or left-leaning.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> None of these are fake news. CNN and Snopes are not left or left-leaning.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you refuse Gateway, you must also refuse far-left fake news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and Snopes.


Yeah I don't listen to them either, maybe take your head out of your ass and stop assuming that just because people point out faulty sources from the right it doesn't immediately align with another side.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

And that attitude of attacking the source instead of whether it is true or not is why were going to have 70 million people ready to tear the entire system down.


----------



## cisADMlN (Nov 8, 2020)

You can tell who the people that browse and post in /pol/ are. Cringe AF. VOTER FRAWD !!!one1!


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> And that attitude of attacking the source instead of whether it is true or not is why were going to have 70 million people ready to tear the entire system down.


I already wanted to


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> And that attitude of attacking the source instead of whether it is true or not is why were going to have 70 million people ready to tear the entire system down.


This line of thought is golden: "I used a source that is known to spread misinformation and lies, and if you post about saying how it is that way you have a bad attitude and it is why we should have another civil war". 

Like, dude, if this shit is actually reliable info then post a source that can actually confirm this that actually has no bias leanings and isn't pegged for conspiracy theories and false info perhaps? Surely, you can do that.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> Ok maybe wrong choice of evidence but I bet it’s still out there


it isn't though


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> it isn't though


Ehh idk about that


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you refuse Gateway, you must also refuse far-left fake news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and Snopes.


you seriously think _*CNN, *_a major mildly-left-kinda-sorta-maybe news source, and _*SNOPES,*_ a freaking fact-checking website, are so far left-biased they're fake news?
seriously?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> I already wanted to


Same here, as someone who lives in a abandoned missile silo with a 5 ton blast door i'd hate for all this food & ammo I been stockpiling to go to waste.  The only reason I am in to modding is I always wanted to be the post apocalypse librarian that archived everything.  The last 8 years of observation has been "Yes! I AM NOT CRAZY!"  followed by "Ah fuck.... I am not crazy".   Just remember anyone using the term "Fake news" accepts the below pictured as a valid arbiter.


----------



## Victorzer (Nov 8, 2020)

Americans made their choice. Congratulations everyone!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Same here, as someone who lives in a abandoned missile silo with a 5 ton blast door i'd hate for all this food & ammo I been stockpiling to go to waste.  The only reason I am in to modding is I always wanted to be the post apocalypse librarian that archived everything.  The last 8 years of observation has been "Yes! I AM NOT CRAZY!"  followed by "Ah fuck.... I am not crazy".   Just remember anyone using the term "Fake news" accepts the below pictured as a valid arbiter.


I can't tell if the reason I can't figure out how much raw sarcasm this post contains is because I'm not clever enough or there simply don't exist large enough numbers to describe it.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

CNN faking Iraq war footage, litterally fake news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=isMtxbPdvzg


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> you seriously think _*CNN, *_a major mildly-left-kinda-sorta-maybe news source, and _*SNOPES,*_ a freaking fact-checking website, are so far left-biased they're fake news?
> seriously?


Yeah and did I ask for your liberal opinion


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> Yeah and did I ask for your liberal opinion


no but literal fact doesn't generally require asking
you've deluded yourself into thinking anything remotely non-pro-Trump (I wouldn't strictly say anti-Trump because you seem to reject more than just that) is so biased you can call it completely false
you are lying to yourself and others
correction of falsities are neither opinions nor require being asked for the correction
but I doubt you'll listen to reason now


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> no but literal fact doesn't generally require asking
> you've deluded yourself into thinking anything remotely non-pro-Trump (I wouldn't strictly say anti-Trump because you seem to reject more than just that) is so biased you can call it completely false
> you are lying to yourself and others
> correction of falsities are neither opinions nor require being asked for the correction
> but I doubt you'll listen to reason now


CNN Staffers caught on tape admitting to fabricating Russia gate.    I can post all day footage of Time warner AOLs CNN being caught in fabrications and outright lies.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> no but literal fact doesn't generally require asking
> you've deluded yourself into thinking anything remotely non-pro-Trump (I wouldn't strictly say anti-Trump because you seem to reject more than just that) is so biased you can call it completely false
> you are lying to yourself and others
> correction of falsities are neither opinions nor require being asked for the correction
> but I doubt you'll listen to reason now


You are funny person just because I dislike Joe Biden doesn’t make me Pro Trump I’m pro Alliance Party


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> surprised there haven't been braindead fucks invading this thread believing he won because he lied about losing who then proceed to spam posts saying "nO hE wOn By A lArGe MaRgIn EvEn ThOuGh ThE dEmS rIgGeD iT"
> *GOOD THING THERE HAVEN'T BEEN*


oh good lord I jinxed it even more than I thought
the idiots
they're MULTIPLYING



jimbo13 said:


> CNN Staffers caught on tape admitting to fabricating Russia gate.    I can post all day footage of Time warner AOLs CNN being caught in fabrications and outright lies.



_watches video_
ah, a troll.
you may want to leave this discussion so that you aren't mistaken for the actual trumpnuts invading this discussion with nonsense.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> oh good lord I jinxed it even more than I thought
> the idiots
> they're MULTIPLYING


Idiots wtf are you talking about just because you don’t believe the truth doesn’t make us idiots


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Biden isn't the president.  Every single leftist on Twitter the night of the election knew Biden lost and was putting up excuses for why it happened.  Trump won Virginia, NC, GA, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, and PA.  Everyone and their mom knows they tried to rig it with fake votes the days after.

Trump won by such a landslide that the amount of fraud required to beat the Trump vote made it so their fake ballot stuffing ended up making it so 90-95% of counties and states 'voted', which doesn't and hasn't ever happened before.  More than half of the country recognizes this scum as an illegitimate occupying force now.

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/br...er-and-scorecard-were-used-to-steal-election/

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/30-states-computer-system-known-be-defective-tallying-votes

Look at Zerohedge, one of the most read financial sites in the world.  90% of people don't recognize Biden as the valid winner (that poll was just posted. In a while, vote count will be up to like 50k+):


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Biden isn't the president.  Every single leftist on Twitter the night of the election knew Biden lost and was putting up excuses for why it happened.  Trump won Virginia, NC, GA, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, and PA.  Everyone and their mom knows they tried to rig it with fake votes the days after.
> 
> Trump won by such a landslide that the amount of fraud required to beat the Trump vote made it so their fake ballot stuffing ended up making it so 90-95% of counties and states 'voted', which doesn't and hasn't ever happened before.  More than half of the country recognizes this scum as an illegitimate occupying force now.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the facts Putin and for not colluding in either elections


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 8, 2020)

I just want everyone to know that it ain't over 'til it's over. I wasn't born early enough to see it, but some of you may remember the 2000 election with the hanging chads.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> Idiots wtf are you talking about just because you don’t believe the truth doesn’t make us idiots


the only evidence in this thread your side has provided is a link from a far-right site known for falsehoods and conspiracies and a literal joke video
and what is probably more trolling (or at least I pray it is, else I'd be even more disappointed in humanity)
and yet you act like you're automatically correct and I'm "not believing the truth"
...but yeah at this point at least two of you are trolls so there's no point in further discussion


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> oh good lord I jinxed it even more than I thought
> the idiots
> they're MULTIPLYING
> 
> ...


Someone who thinks CNN doesn't have a serious bias issue doesn't have any business calling anyone a nut.  Remember last year when they had to pay out 200 million to Nick Sandman for fabricating fake news about him? https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/media/cnn-settles-lawsuit-viral-video/index.html             Lets set a metric how much fake news does CNN need to produce before it is reasonable to call them fake news according to you.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Even in African banana republics where they cut people's arms off for not voting for their specific warlord the voter participation rate doesn't hit 90%, but it's over 90% in this fraudulent election but MAGICALLY only in swing states and not regular states.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Even in African banana republics where they cut people's arms off for not voting for their specific warlord the voter participation rate doesn't hit 90%, but it's over 90% in this fraudulent election but MAGICALLY only in swing states and not regular states.


gee it's almost like we as a nation _*learned our damn lesson *_from the result of the 2016 election and people being indecisive


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> gee it's almost like we as a nation _*learned our damn lesson *_from the result of the 2016 election and people being indecisive


No one decided in the last 4 years open borders and being sold to china was good policy.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> the only evidence in this thread your side has provided is a link from a far-right site known for falsehoods and conspiracies and a literal joke video
> and what is probably more trolling (or at least I pray it is, else I'd be even more disappointed in humanity)
> and yet you act like you're automatically correct and I'm "not believing the truth"
> ...but yeah at this point at least two of you are trolls so there's no point in further discussion


First off I’m not a troll, trolls live under bridges I live in a house they also refuse from letting people cross said bridge the only thing I refuse is allowing for a corrupt political party and its supporters tell me right from wrong/fact or fiction


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

The fake news networks are even suspending and canceling their own shows and hosts that attempt to cover the vote fraud:

https://www.wgowam.com/news/sources-fox-news-suspends-justice-with-judge-jeanine-over-trump/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> gee it's almost like we as a nation _*learned our damn lesson *_from the result of the 2016 election and people being indecisive



You didn't read the post. There's OVER 90% voter participation rates ONLY in swing states while voting participation is perfectly normal in regular states. It's a blatant anomaly indicating fraud.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> oh good lord I jinxed it even more than I thought
> the idiots
> they're MULTIPLYING


Nah man it's beautiful, these are all Trumpettes going through the various stages of grief.  This is the quality content I _CRAVE_ right now.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Nah man it's beautiful, these are all Trumpettes going through the various stages of grief.  This is the quality content I _CRAVE_ right now.


trumpets?
well they certainly are tooting each others' horns
I guess we just have different tolerances for "idiot-induced comedy" versus "idiot-induced exasperation"


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> The fake news networks are even suspending and canceling their own shows and hosts that attempt to cover the vote fraud:
> 
> https://www.wgowam.com/news/sources-fox-news-suspends-justice-with-judge-jeanine-over-trump/
> 
> ...



Just remember, the same people who spent the last 4 years accusing Russia of rigging our election, no longer believe rigging a election is possible. You can't argue with these people and most of them are to young to understand the violence that's coming to our streets.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trumpettes going through the various stages of grief.



There isn't any grief. It's over 1/2 of the country recognizing the Biden regime as an illegal, illegitimate, occupying force. So we now essentially have no federal government at all.  They committed WAY too much fraud to try and get Biden in for people not to notice.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> There isn't any grief. It's over 1/2 of the country recognizing the Biden regime as an illegal, illegitimate, occupying force. So we now essentially have no federal government at all.  They committed WAY too much fraud to try and get Biden in for people not to notice.


Oh god yeah that's the fuckin' good shit right there, inject that shit straight into my VEINS, YES!!!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> There isn't any grief. It's over 1/2 of the country recognizing the Biden regime as an illegal, illegitimate, occupying force. So we now essentially have no federal government at all.  They committed WAY too much fraud to try and get Biden in for people not to notice.


sure ironic to hear someone whose pfp is putin with a piss goblet and a smug grin talk about corruption


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

If you really want to understand what is about to happen ask some of those civil war vets that voted for Biden.  https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...000-dead-people-on-pennsylvanias-voter-rolls/


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trumpettes going through the various stages of grief.


It’s more like the Non-Corruptables unveiling the truth


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Mandatory vaccines already coming to New York on the same day there were videos of thousands of people not social distancing in support of Biden's victory. Can't make this up.

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjourn...ation-recommendation/?slreturn=20201007234955

Freedoms


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

I mean, I am trying my best to be impartial with all this, but it's like....half these places they keep linking I have never heard of.....and then I look up how reliable and unbiased they are.....and they are either known to be blatantly false or leaning to the far right/extreme right.....

Really not trying to be the asshole, but surely, you guys can find sources that aren't biased? Right? I am literally trying to play ball and give you guys a chance here.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


>


When you decide to actually post something substantive instead of waving a brainless emoji flag of surrender, be sure to tag me in that post.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> I mean, I am trying my best to be impartial with all this, but it's like....half these places they keep linking I have never heard of.....and then I look up how reliable and unbiased they are.....and they are either known to be blatantly false or leaning to the far right/extreme right.....
> 
> Really not trying to be the asshole, but surely, you guys can find sources that aren't biased? Right? I am literally trying to play ball and give you guys a chance here.



Why not look up the issue and cross check it with sources you trust?  For example I posted a "far right" source claiming Joe Fraizer who is dead voted.  The validity of that can be verified regardless of who I pulled the story from. (spoiler alert, he did).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Nothing to see here, just a Supreme Court justice ordering segregation of ballots... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...arate-ballots-that-arrived-after-election-day


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Why not look up the issue and cross check it with sources you trust?  For example I posted a "far right" source claiming Joe Fraizer who is dead voted.  The validity of that can be verified regardless of who I pulled the story from. (spoiler alert, he did).



See their sources are the corrupt ones CNN CBS ABC now even Fox News is on their side they're turning on Trump now. But they have in their head that only mainsteam media can tell the truth and the rest is lying when in reality it's backwards. You're not going to wake them up though it's pointless.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> When you decide to actually post something substantive instead of waving a brainless emoji flag of surrender, be sure to tag me in that post.


Yeah I’ll be right one that but you’re so late to reply I’ll have to edit all my previous posts because there’s a lot sorry sir


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> See their sources are the corrupt ones CNN CBS ABC now even Fox News is on their side they're turning on Trump now. But they have in their head that only mainsteam media can tell the truth and the rest is lying when in reality it's backwards. You're not going to wake them up though it's pointless.


Yeah I really don't understand low IQ people who are incapable of their own basic fact checking that treats the media as a oracle, I am guessing non-college grads who never learned what a citation or source is.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You're not going to wake them up though it's pointless.








Even though we're not on Reddit, I feel obliged to say this is totally /r/selfawarewolves material.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Even though we're not on Reddit, I feel obliged to say this is totally /r/selfawarewolves material.


Are you ok? I’m seriously questioning your mental sanity.


----------



## Deleted member 512337 (Nov 8, 2020)

p1ngpong said:


> Biden's attempted fraud will be righted by the supreme court and President Trump will finish off his last 4 years just like his first. With strong leadership, dignity, pride and wise decision making that benefits America and the world.


kappa


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> Are you ok? I’m seriously questioning your mental sanity.



That's what he does he posts weird pictures that only he thinks is clever because he doesn't have anything intelligent to say. It's ok what you don't know, you don't know.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I'm just enjoying the show, internet is ripe for this type of thing today.
> 
> Please, do carry on as you were, pretend as though I'm Jane Goodall and you're a tightly-knit group of chimpanzees with red hats.



You have celebrated just a bit much on the Biden win. I recommend you sit the rest of the night out.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You have celebrated just a bit much on the Biden win. I recommend you sit the rest of the night out.


I'd say I'm celebrating Trump's loss more than Biden's win, but I guess that's kinda splitting hairs.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Just going to leave this here https://banned.video/watch?id=5fa5ab83b12beb1ca2cca79f


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Why not look up the issue and cross check it with sources you trust?  For example I posted a "far right" source claiming Joe Fraizer who is dead voted.  The validity of that can be verified regardless of who I pulled the story from. (spoiler alert, he did).
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Nothing to see here, just a Supreme Court justice ordering segregation of ballots... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...arate-ballots-that-arrived-after-election-day


*The order came Friday night in response to a plea from the state Republican Party* as Democrat Joe Biden inched ahead of President Donald Trump in Pennsylvania in the presidential race.

*Alito, acting on his own, said he was motivated in part by the Republicans’ assertion* that they can’t be sure elections officials are complying with guidance issued by Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar, a Democrat.

From your own source....it clearly states that this was because of republicans....it even says it in the first few lines......and the person who put the order into affect did so because the republicans asked him to.....

Be serious now are you just fucking with us or something? 



ForgotWhoIam said:


> See their sources are the corrupt ones CNN CBS ABC now even Fox News is on their side they're turning on Trump now. But they have in their head that only mainsteam media can tell the truth and the rest is lying when in reality it's backwards. You're not going to wake them up though it's pointless.



Yeah see I looked through many sources before I usually comment on something and there have been times even on here where I have admitted to being mistaken. 

Also, yet another one that assumes that because I don't believe in these sources or trust them (again due to heavy bias) I MUST be only trusting the sources they distrust....this is why I stopped even talking to you folks because of things like this. 

Can't even be a bit impartial without immediately being thought of the enemy or wrong-thinking.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> That's what he does he posts weird pictures that only he thinks is clever because he doesn't have anything intelligent to say. It's ok what you don't know, you don't know.


To be fair, I do the same thing.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Please, do carry on as you were, pretend as though I'm Jane Goodall and you're a tightly-knit group of chimpanzees with red hats.


Today I’m going to show you how fake news is made as you can see we have this quote well we’re going to manipulate it to make this man sound as insane as he is all you have to do is omit some words and comment.


Xzi said:


> I'm Jane Goodall and you're a tightly-knit group of chimpanzees with red hats.


Insane Gbatemp user Xzi says he’s Jane Goodall this is just more evidence as to why he should be admitted to a psych ward.
And now I have shown what it takes to be main stream media


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)




----------



## KingVamp (Nov 8, 2020)

Anyone Any news sites that doesn't fall in line with Trump is corrupted.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> To be fair, I do the same thing.


Precisely, now I get at least a couple days to annoy you sad sacks with memes in retaliation for the last four years.  








ForgotWhoIam said:


>


You're making both of them look way cooler than they actually are.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Anyone Any news sites that doesn't fall in line with Trump is corrupted.



I only trust news sites banned by fecebook or that get tagged by twitter, fuck the robo-ginger and anyone enabling his manipulation of society. If Billionaires aren't trying to silence and discredit you you're not a journalist.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Mandatory vaccines already coming to New York on the same day there were videos of thousands of people not social distancing in support of Biden's victory. Can't make this up.
> 
> https://www.law.com/newyorklawjourn...ation-recommendation/?slreturn=20201007234955



Violation of the Nuremberg code and numerous others.  I will consider any effort to forcibly vaccinate me with this dangerous vaccine equal to assault with a deadly weapon.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I only trust news sites banned by fecebook or that get tagged by twitter, fuck the robo-ginger and anyone enabling his manipulation of society.


"I only trust information which comes from that chronic alcoholic who assaulted bartenders and got himself banned from the bar."


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

Oh great.....they are anti-vaxxers as well.....and yet I was called the low IQ one here.....FFS.


----------



## ImSoHandsome (Nov 8, 2020)

in before #NotMyPresident


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Oh great.....they are anti-vaxxers as well.....and yet I was called the low IQ one here.....FFS.



It's called personal freedom. If you give up all your personal liberties you will end up with none.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Oh great.....they are anti-vaxxers as well.....and yet I was called the low IQ one here.....FFS.


Well if you were high IQ you would understand the difference between being against vaccines and forced inoculations, a high IQ person would understand the historical reasons things like that aren't allowed.  Also a high IQ person wouldn't just parrot a adhominem buzzword that thinks that instantly grants them credibility.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

ImSoHandsome said:


> in before #NotMyPresident



Yeah I was going to ask a Democrat if I could use their sign the next 4 years.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It's called personal freedom.


It's called paranoid delusion.  Ain't nobody gonna force you to take a vaccine.  And before you ask, no, ain't nobody gonna take your guns either.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Precisely, now I get at least a couple days to annoy you sad sacks with memes in retaliation for the last four years.



I don't think leftists actually comprehend what's going on (which is normal).  The so called #resist crap against Trump did absolutely nothing because it's all dumb and whiny 16-24 year old girls, most of which don't even work or don't have an important job.  If they disappeared from the Earth, nobody would even notice.

If the right doesn't recognize Biden as a legitimate president that was pushed in entirely through fraud, a "resist" movement on the right would cause the entire country to come to a stand-still and implode.  All the cops, all the military, construction workers, plumbers, electricians, farmers, truck drivers - basically everything you see in the physical world was put there by a right winger.

There's already truck drivers saying they will not deliver ANY goods to liberal areas due to this fraud.  Good luck trying to live in a cannibal wasteland because there's no food there.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Well if you were high IQ you would understand the difference between being against vaccines and forced inoculations, a high IQ person would understand the historical reasons things like that aren't allowed.  Also a high IQ person wouldn't just parrot a adhominem buzzword that thinks that instantly grants them credibility.


Anti-vaxxer is just a term for people that are against Vaccines, if you take it as an insult then maybe that is a you problem? Even anti-vaxxers call themselves that so....don't see what the problem is here exactly...other than the fact that....you know....anti-vaxxers are possibly the dumbest motherfuckers in the world that have even paid for research just to have themselves proven wrong. 

But if that offends you, I could use another term. How about "Plague rat"? 

Also, how much for your healing crystals. I don't believe in that, but Crystals do make good decorations.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

These people have to be paid message board spammers.  Not a single one will acknowledge the fact there were deadly SV40 cancer causing viruses in the Polio vaccine millions of boomers took.  Boomers should be wanting to hang these big pharma corporations in the streets due to that, but most don't even know about it.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> If the right doesn't recognize Biden as a legitimate president that was pushed in entirely through fraud, a "resist" movement on the right would cause the entire country to come to a stand-still and implode. All the cops, all the military, construction workers, plumbers, electricians, farmers, truck drivers - basically everything you see in the physical world was put there by a right winger.
> 
> There's already truck drivers saying they will not deliver ANY goods to liberal areas due to this fraud. Good luck trying to live in a cannibal wasteland because there's no food there.


So your hail mary is asking all Trump supporters to deliberately lose their jobs and their livelihoods, with the assumption that Democrats and Independents wouldn't be happy to fill those newly-opened positions?  LMAO, good luck with that one bud.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

The right doesn't need to do shit.  If over half the country doesn't recognize the validity of a president and that they're an illegal, illegitimate occupying force that committed fraud, it's not the right that has a problem, it's the Beijing Biden crime family that has a problem.

When a 'ruler' speaks and everyone laughs at them, that's called an emperor with no clothes moment and they're not an actual ruler of anything.  The federal government essentially ceases to exist.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> These people have to be paid message board spammers.  Not a single one will acknowledge the fact there were deadly SV40 cancer causing viruses in the Polio vaccine millions of boomers took.  Boomers should be wanting to hang these big pharma corporations in the streets due to that, but most don't even know about it.


https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-ingredients/sv40

Most important takeway from this article: *These findings do not support the hypothesis that SV40 virus contained in polio vaccines administered before 1963 caused cancers. 
*
Very Ironic that you call people a bot though, considering that your account is barely a few months old and it seems as if THIS is the only topic you posted in. Very Odd indeed....


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> The right doesn't need to do shit.  If over half the country doesn't recognize the validity of a president and that they're an illegal, illegitimate occupying force that committed fraud, it's not the right that has a problem, it's the Beijing Biden crime family that has a problem.


Ooh this is a good one.  Could be denial, anger, bargaining, or a little bit of each really.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Most important takeway from this article: *These findings do not support the hypothesis that SV40 virus contained in polio vaccines administered before 1963 caused cancers.*



Do you have an IQ of zero?  You think billion dollar corporations will admit wrong doing in anything to open up themselves to lawsuits from here to eternity to bankrupt themselves a million times over?  Does anyone use this forum who isn't a child and has any experience with the real world at all?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It's called paranoid delusion.  Ain't nobody gonna force you to take a vaccine.


Tell that to California.


Xzi said:


> And before you ask, no, ain't nobody gonna take your guns either.


I thought Biden was going to ban AR-15s.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Of course they're going to attempt to ban guns. They will first stage false flage shootings and big false flag, Oklahoma City-style bombings and try to blame them on their completely artificial, "Q-Anon" strawman group they made entirely for this purpose.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Do you have an IQ of zero?  You think billion dollar corporations will admit wrong doing in anything to open up themselves to lawsuits from here to eternity to bankrupt themselves a million times over?  Does anyone use this forum who isn't a child and has any experience with the real world at all?


It really amazes me that I show a source and evidence that is backed by more sources and your whole reply is a baseless conspiracy theory and a "wake up sheeple" type reply that is so full of anger and insults. 

If you think I am wrong and that you are so much more intelligent then please do post some actual evidence, or in this case it's a matter of "Facts don't care about your feelings".


----------



## Joom (Nov 8, 2020)

I'm just gonna leave this here since this is a point of contention that we're gonna hear about non-stop for the next four years.

1/ ALRIGHT Y'ALL. ELECTION FRAUD DEBUNKING MEGA THREAD. I’m following claims of fraud and looking into them. I think I’ve solved most now. Nothing is holding up under any scrutiny so far so I’m making a thread to track in one place. Please RT! #ElectionResults2020 #Election2020— Isaac Saul (@Ike_Saul) November 5, 2020


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Of course they're going to attempt to ban guns.


Oh, of course.  Just like guns have been banned every other 4-8 years when a Democrat gets elected.  

Fucking sheep run out and buy guns at severely inflated prices every time a Dem gets elected, it's both hilarious and sad to watch.  Great for the gun manufacturers' bottom line though.



r0achtheunsavory said:


> Oklahoma City-style bombings and try to blame them on their completely artificial, "Q-Anon" strawman group they made entirely for this purpose.


Well, you tell me: is that a plausible scenario?  Will Q-Anon still be around for quite a while and would they be pissed off/misguided enough to do that?  Or will they finally realize they got conned by some pedo pig farmer living in New Zealand to escape US authorities?  I mean, even Trump's FBI marked conspiracy theorists pretty high on the terror threat list.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> It really amazes me that I show a source and evidence that is backed by more sources and your whole reply is a baseless conspiracy theory and a "wake up sheeple" type reply that is so full of anger and insults.
> 
> If you think I am wrong and that you are so much more intelligent then please do post some actual evidence, or in this case it's a matter of "Facts don't care about your feelings".



You cannot be an adult and post clueless things like this.  Corporations do not admit wrong doing.  It's a miracle the roundup lawsuit even went through and wasn't buried.  They also have waivers for vaccine companies where they can literally kill you and face no damages, so they face no real legal inquests in the first place. 

Whoever throws money at it would just be setting money on fire due to the waivers.  So tired of these leftists who spam about how corporations are evil then make clueless arguments pretending they don't live in a dystopia run by evil corporations and unelected foreign entites like the CFR 5 minutes later.


----------



## Joom (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Oh, of course. Just like guns have been banned every other 4-8 years when a Democrat gets elected.


The funny thing is that Trump enacted more gun control than any other president. But his support can conveniently ignore that I guess.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> You cannot be an adult and post clueless things like this.  Corporations do not admit wrong doing.  It's a miracle the roundup lawsuit even went through and wasn't buried.
> 
> They also have waivers for vaccine companies where they can literally kill you and face no damages, so they face no real legal inquests in the first place.  Whoever throws money at it would just be setting money on fire due to the waivers.


Still not seeing much proof, so either quit insulting me and wasting my time, post some proof, or be quiet.

The only one acting childish is here is you, as you stamp your feet and yell "NO YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I SAID SO".

You're obviously not an adult if you think you can just spout out idiocies like you are without being challenged and then thinking that insulting the other person makes you the victor.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

Joom said:


> The funny thing is that Trump enacted more gun control than any other president. But his support can conveniently ignore that I guess.


He's also the only president ever to suggest circumventing the courts to seize guns.  Republicans would fucking hate Trump if they really _listened_ to everything he says.  

Then again, he changed the party to be more a cult of personality rather than anything remotely policy-focused.  He could've told his supporters he'd be shoving whole pineapples up each of their asses, and as long as that came with the caveat it would somehow "own the libs" in an obscure way, they'd all start lubing up immediately.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Clown News Network seems thrilled.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Clown News Network seems thrilled.


Again, making them all look cooler than they actually are.  Second one from the right, back row looks kinda like Trump though lmao.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> He's also the only president ever to suggest circumventing the courts to seize guns.  Republicans would fucking hate Trump if they really _listened_ to everything he says.



If you researched what was going on at the time, it wasn't him coming up with those ideas, it was leftist groups like the ADL and SPLC trying to force Trump to put people on blacklists to prevent them from owning guns if they said something 'racist' on the internet or whatever. 

Both the ADL and SPLC are Jewish groups and Trump was trying to garner favor with Jewish donors and others in power going along with their BS.  All politicians are opportunists and bullshit scammers like this who just go along with whatever keeps them in power.

Not many people on the right actually worship Trump as some type of savior of humanity and know he's entirely a political animal that just takes a hardline stance against outsourcing the entirety of US jobs to China....and that's about the only good thing.


----------



## Joom (Nov 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> He's also the only president ever to suggest circumventing the courts to seize guns.  Republicans would fucking hate Trump if they really _listened_ to everything he says.


Amazing how easy fascist propaganda brainwashes people. They're too consumed with the imaginary "radical left" to see Trump doesn't give two shits about them, and has been actively trampling on their rights and freedoms. It still greatly amuses me that they somehow think a billionaire is anti-establishment that doesn't kowtow to the corporations.


r0achtheunsavory said:


> Both the ADL and SPLC are Jewish groups and Trump was trying to garner favor with Jewish donors and others in power going along with their BS. All politicians are opportunists and bullshit scammers like this who just go along with whatever keeps them in power.


Ah, there's the anti-semite. There's one in all of these threads. Them oogity boogity Jews are always at it, huh?


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Get lost, liar.  Citing factual history is not "racist".  The only racist is the person who cries "racism" at people citing facts on the ground exactly as they happened.  The right doesn't lie like you people do.  I explained exactly why Trump was pushing for those red flag laws. It was pushed by the ADL and SPLC.

Why was Trump pushing red flag laws that would knowingly hurt popularity among his base if he wasn't trying to gain favor with those groups? (ADL & SPLC).  And what would he need from those groups?  Money and influence.  Everything I say makes sense and zero of what you say makes sense.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 8, 2020)

The only real fraud seems to be the disruption of the mail service.


----------



## netovsk (Nov 8, 2020)

Yay! That's great news for the rest of the world. Thanks guys!


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

netovsk said:


> Yay! That's great news for the rest of the world. Thanks guys!



Because Beijing Biden will allow evil corporations to practice global labor arbitrage and outsource all US jobs to the 3rd world for pennies so everyone in America dies instead of having a living wage?

The American middle class was built upon the nation having tariffs.  Have you seen Biden mention the word "tariff" before once?  Didn't think so.  Biden and the other leftists are telling everyone who gets their job outsourced or loses their job at JCPenny of all places to "learn to code" AHAHAHA.

As if there's magically infinite jobs available for 'coders'.  It's like telling the entire planet:  "learn to be a plumber!"

On ABC, Rahm Emanuel literally says a Biden White House should tell people laid off from retail stores like JC Penney to learn to code.He actually said this. Amazing. pic.twitter.com/xlSnVi7445— Curtis Houck (@CurtisHouck) November 7, 2020


----------



## silien3 (Nov 8, 2020)

no no and no it's intolerable they cheated it's the cat the winner


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Anti-vaxxer is just a term for people that are against Vaccines, if you take it as an insult then maybe that is a you problem? Even anti-vaxxers call themselves that so....don't see what the problem is here exactly...other than the fact that....you know....anti-vaxxers are possibly the dumbest motherfuckers in the world that have even paid for research just to have themselves proven wrong.
> 
> But if that offends you, I could use another term. How about "Plague rat"?
> 
> Also, how much for your healing crystals. I don't believe in that, but Crystals do make good decorations.


Their not as dumb as the little eichmanns who don't understand the difference between forced inoculations and voluntarily taking a medication.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Their not as dumb as the little eichmanns who don't understand the difference between forced inoculations and voluntarily taking a medication.


Wow didn't think I would be called a Nazi by a conspiracy theorist tonight but here we are. 

If it helps you have every right not take a vaccine to die from preventable diseases and I support you on that, but just as you have that right, I have every right to think you are being stupid,  over-reactionary anti-vaxxer about  something that would save your life and prevent the diseases from spreading to others.

Also, please make sure your offspring abide by your same rules that way Darwinism can actually do its job.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Joom said:


> The funny thing is that Trump enacted more gun control than any other president. But his support can conveniently ignore that I guess.


 #fakenews, scratch that #blatantlie and the few reforms of law Trump did on guns we didn't mind, because we trust conservatives not to abuse the law seeing as they actually understand what end the bullet comes out of other than beta-males and spinsters.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SonowRaevius said:


> Wow didn't think I would be called a Nazi by a conspiracy theorist tonight but here we are.
> 
> If it helps you have every right not take a vaccine to die from preventable diseases and I support you on that, but just as you have that right, I have every right to think you are being stupid,  over-reactionary anti-vaxxer about  something that would save your life and prevent the diseases from spreading to others.
> 
> Also, please make sure your offspring abide by your same rules that way Darwinism can actually do its job.


  You could stop at the part where you agreed governments shouldn't be forcing injections on people and stfu instead of attributing things to me you have no basis to base that on.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

It's actually not fake news.  Trump didn't try to force through any legislation concerning guns that I know of besides the 'bumpstock' BS from the Mandalay Bay false flag shooting, but he did speak on video press conference talking about seizing guns from crazy people with no due process to 'prevent crimes'.

Nothing ever happened after that because it would be political suicide, but I'm sure the left will attempt to resurrect their unconstitional red flag laws to arbitrarily rate anyone they want as 'insane' to try and illegally take guns.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

_*Each election is an open and transparent process that may be observed by any interested person. Election challengers may be appointed by political parties and qualified interest groups to observe the election process. A person who wishes to observe but is not a qualified election challenger is commonly called a poll watcher.*_


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You could stop at the part where you agreed governments shouldn't be forcing injections on people and stfu instead of attributing things to me you have no basis to base that on.



Oh I see so NOW it's not ok to associate things to people now that your little feelings were hurt, after you and your little chucklefuck friends have been doing it all night? Nah, fuck off with that shit. 

I tried to be civil and play ball with you lot, but instead you all did nothing but insult me and everyone else here that didn't agree with you. 

And this kind of bullshit behavior is exactly why I said what I did in my first post of this topic.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Most people on the right are civil.  The issue is that people on the left typically fall under the weak and frail category and have Napoleon syndrome and just blurt out this constant authoritarian nonsense thinking they have any authority to tell other people what to do, what they can think, and how to act.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Most people on the right are civil.  The issue is that people on the left typically fall under the weak and frail category and have Napoleon syndrome and just blurt out this constant authoritarian nonsense thinking they have any authority to tell other people what to do, what they can think, and how to act.


So says the person that has called several people here liars, low/zero IQ, and children since he started posting and all of that based off of nothing of substance. 

Yes, you're so civil, that you couldn't even help yourself from insulting people in this little rant you just posted either. 

The only thing worse is the irony and hypocrisy of your statement will fly right over your head and you will learn nothing from it.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

You don't seem to understand that nobody is going to accept any authoritarian/fascist BS from weak and frail people on the left with Napoleon syndrome.  We keep telling you this over and over but you just come back two minutes later pretending you have any power to force anyone to do things or socially engineer the entire planet to force them to think like you.

Why are "anti-fascists" the most fascist people on the planet?  Everyone on the right just wants to be left alone.  Everyone on the left thinks it's a crime if you won't let them tyrannically micro-manage your entire life.  You're not stabbing anyone with needles.  You're not forcing anyone into your collectivist dystopian systems. We're not putting up with it.


----------



## Bagel Le Stinky (Nov 8, 2020)

As a Canadian I'm happy for Americans. I don't know what else to say.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

The most bizarre part about leftists is how they're all highly collectivist, but the only form of collectivism that has ever worked are things like ethnonationalism.  So leftists are essentially dysfunctional Nazis.

Is there a single thing on the left that makes any sense at all?  Like how they were flying an enormous gay flag with a black lives matter sign on it at some Biden event today.  Whether they're devout religious people or not is up for debate, but black people as a whole seem to profess to be even more religious than white people. 

The religious side of black people seems to be highly anti-gay, and even the non-religious side of black people seem to be more anti-gay than white people as a whole.  So how does that sign make any sense?  It's like having a gay flag with Putin on it. 

Before some shill makes up the lie that I'm saying something detrimental about these groups, they're perfectly free to pursue their own special interests.  I'm saying these groups have virtually nothing in common, but some random lunatic tries to superglue them together for no reason and any supposed issues they have just become nonsensical unless the goal is to put everyone except straight white people into a common group and have a biblical-style white genocide war.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Because Beijing Biden will allow evil corporations to practice global labor arbitrage and outsource all US jobs to the 3rd world for pennies so everyone in America dies instead of having a living wage?


HEH welcome to my country the liberals scum have been doing that for years


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> HEH welcome to my country the liberals scum have been doing that for years



I'm pretty well-versed on most macroeconomic issues and am 99% sure things like outsourcing and other issues are vastly worse in the US.  The last time I checked, you could be a garbage man in Australia and live decently well, while not so in the US.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> So says the person that has called several people here liars, low/zero IQ, and children since he started posting and all of that based off of nothing of substance.
> 
> Yes, you're so civil, that you couldn't even help yourself from insulting people in this little rant you just posted either.
> 
> The only thing worse is the irony and hypocrisy of your statement will fly right over your head and you will learn nothing from it.


Ah the *Civil *lefties can't even "Celebrate" before they start eating their own LMAO.... https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1325211018952237058?s=20


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Ah the *Civil *lefties can't even "Celebrate" before they start eating their own LMAO.... https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1325211018952237058?s=20



The comment section shows the other dystopian part of the current world.  Nobody gave a damn about the person being punched in the face for no reason until the female commentators noticed it seemed to be a female of some kind.  

Women have an INSANE in-group bias.  If they thought it was a white male just being murdered for no reason, they would be like "ah, who cares."  But a female being punched in the face by a BLM?  It's a national emergency.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

Ah, calling human behavior based on gender again. Women are so x and y. God, your world must be so simple...

Wonder what Freud would say to that statement.


----------



## USUKDecks (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> The most bizarre part about leftists is how they're all highly collectivist, but the only form of collectivism that has ever worked are things like ethnonationalism.  So leftists are essentially dysfunctional Nazis.
> 
> Is there a single thing on the left that makes any sense at all?  Like how they were flying an enormous gay flag with a black lives matter sign on it at some Biden event today.  Whether they're devout religious people or not is up for debate, but black people as a whole seem to profess to be even more religious than white people.
> 
> ...



Dysfunctional nazis????   typical trumpTARD rhetoric. You guys including the orange dick himself ALWAYS projector yourselves and your failed goals onto others. It's clear unless you are a retard living under a rock, that trump followers as so pro white along with Qanon and actual neo nazi groups that  have been pro trump and NEVER have they been on the left. Do you even know the definition of a Nazi? Cause apparently you don't. your orange god built up a cult of authoritarian rule and surrounded himself NOT with competence but with loyalty to his dictatorship like rule.

And you now know blacks??? really?  based on what?  

And is there a thing on the left that makes any sense at all??? did you just SERIOUSLY ask that question? This coming from YOU a traitor who supports fascism/dictatorship/authoritarian rule and whose leader told him to drink bleach! The same leader who said lets stand in front of UV light to zap corona away. The same guy who said why can't we nuke a hurricane. The same guy who purposely had kids and parents separated at the border, put them in cages and treated them like animals....despite the fact that ALL WHITE people are ALL immigrants to this land themselves. The same guy who said he saved religion...single handily! and who was more popular than jesus. The same guys who says he believes in family.... but has 5 kids from 3 different women and wants to screw his own daughter....he was recorded on larry king saying he had her take a paternity because he didn't want time to keep passing not knowing if she was potentially "fair game"

he said mexico paid for a wall that of course they never did, he wanted nasa to get us to mars in less than 4 years and couldn't understand how it wasn't possible. Didn't know puerto rico was a common wealth, also literally said when asked "which testament do you prefer, old or new"  he said "BOTH" ....

yeah ... the left doesn't make sense.  sure buddy.  All your rhetoric is neo nazi traitorous bs. If you want a dictatorship, move to russia or north korea, your leader seems to think highly of both.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> The comment section shows the other dystopian part of the current world.  Nobody gave a damn about the person being punched in the face for no reason until the female commentators noticed it seemed to be a female of some kind.
> 
> Women have an INSANE in-group bias.  If they thought it was a white male just being murdered for no reason, they would be like "ah, who cares."  But a female being punched in the face by a BLM?  It's a national emergency.



Orwell warned us about women in positions of authority long ago. Since white males are the only people I am allowed to criticize without being accused of thought crimes that's the only people I'll vote for.  We literally have this bullshit "Fake news" hysteria because establishment powers needed a excuse to explain why people hate HRC, because it couldn't possibly be she is a succubus from the depths of hell.                                                                                                                                                                                           


*"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy.” -Orwell*


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 8, 2020)

Looks like he is going to heavily use executive orders.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

USUKDecks said:


> Qanon



There is no "Qanon".  It's fake.  Just like there's no such thing as "BLM".  Do people really think a bunch of angry black people created this group when it's right out in the open that Susan Rosenberg (convicted terrorist who is not black pardoned by Bill Clinton) and people like George Soros (not black - duh) are organizing this crap?

"Qanon" was obviously setup as a new strawman group for the government to demonize as 'dangerous right-wing militia' like Timothy McVeigh. They'll stage some fake event then use the event to try and create a bigger police state and seize rights or attempt to ban the 2nd amendment.


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 8, 2020)

sad but true king cause those republicans won't budge it amazes me how people forgot AHCA/Obamacare was butchered by the right into what it was/is and people believe it was all obama's fault maybe if he vetoed it instead of signing it (and assuming republicans would over ride) it would be 100% their fault and people would still believe it was obama's fault even if he did veto it

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



r0achtheunsavory said:


> There is no "Qanon".  It's fake.  Just like there's no such thing as "BLM".  Do people really think a bunch of angry black people created this group when it's right out in the open that Susan Rosenberg (convicted terrorist who is not black pardoned by Bill Clinton) and people like George Soros (not black - duh) are organizing this crap?
> 
> "Qanon" was obviously setup as a new strawman group for the government to demonize as 'dangerous right-wing militia' like Timothy McVeigh. They'll stage some fake event then use the event to try and create a bigger police state and seize rights or attempt to ban the 2nd amendment.


says a man with Putin as his display pic.....


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Most people are economically illiterate.  Anything the government subsidizes the price will be 10x more than it should be.  Take education.  Government passed law making the loans non-defaultable then essentially co-signed the loans themselves so anyone can get one.

You're now flooding the same institutions that existed before with infinite demand of students (most people won't even finish).  When supply stays the same or similar and you increase demand to infinity, the institutions can then jack the price to the moon because it's a seller's market and charge whatever they want.

So a guy taking a loan out to go to college with the government not involved might have to take out a loan of $10k a year or whatever, but then if government subsidizes that market, he now has to pay $50k a year and be a debt slave forever.  Bankers win, you lose.  Bankers want the govt to subsidize all markets to create these distortions so they can enslave you via usury - education, housing, and healthcare.


----------



## nashismo (Nov 8, 2020)

Your country election was a FRAUD and the whole world is watching this in awe! Even my country with all its bad things, is in the culture that ANYONE can assist to the counting of votes, me, anyone, watching each physical count being counted on a simple board. Simple, yet, effective, with the crap that provokes though, which is, people from both sides screaming at each count and observing if is done right.

That is the only way to get at least some democracy achieved. You guys are going for civil war. We south americans now about these things, good luck.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

nashismo said:


> You guys are going for civil war. We south americans now about these things, good luck.



Club of Rome and other government think tanks claim the earth's carrying capacity is 500 million so they want to de-industrialize the west so everyone will just die off or kill each other.  They actually want a civil war and/or collapse to occur, so the only real question is if everyone is being played for a fool.

They also want a shock and awe moment of collapse or instability to try and divert blame of mismanagement of the economy away from the bankers and on to an artificial event so the bankers don't hang in the streets (you know, like Covid). Then to use that event to try and fool people into their new, digital only, Chinese social credit score slavery system.


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Your country election was a FRAUD and the whole world is watching this in awe!



Please let the institutions do their jobs. If there is fraud, there will be evidence.


----------



## nashismo (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> so the only real question is if everyone is being played for a fool.



That is not question my friend.


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Club of Rome and other government think tanks claim the earth's carrying capacity is 500 million so they want to de-industrialize the west so everyone will just die off or kill each other.  They actually want a civil war and/or collapse to occur, so the only real question is if everyone is being played for a fool.
> 
> They also want a shock and awe moment of collapse or instability to try and divert blame of mismanagement of the economy away from the bankers and on to an artificial event so the bankers don't hang in the streets. Then to use that event to try and fool people into their new, digital only, Chinese social credit score slavery system.



Yeah yeah right. 
Don't you think if this was true, there would be much easier and faster things to do than wars ?


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

AkGBA said:


> Please let the institutions do their jobs. If there is fraud, there will be evidence.



There's evidence everywhere and Fox News is even firing their own hosts and shows to try and prevent it from being exposed:

https://www.wgowam.com/news/sources-fox-news-suspends-justice-with-judge-jeanine-over-trump/


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> There's evidence everywhere and Fox News is even firing their own hosts and shows to try and prevent it from being exposed:
> 
> https://www.wgowam.com/news/sources-fox-news-suspends-justice-with-judge-jeanine-over-trump/



Wait. Did you just linked the suspension of a crazy Fox News host to a conspiracy wanting to murder 85% of the planet's population ?


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Wait, did you just make up some random nonsense when the article clearly says Judge Jeanine was suspended for trying to cover voter fraud on a supposedly right wing network?  (except there's no such thing because all the media is fake and compromised).


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

My bad, I thought you quoted my other message, hence the confusion.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Hey. Fox News trying to be factual. 
There may be some light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## nashismo (Nov 8, 2020)

AkGBA said:


> Please let the institutions do their jobs. If there is fraud, there will be evidence.



Is funny what you are saying, honestly, I have heard that so MANY times here in my own country! But when the institutions are corrupted your solution does not work. Here the judges are all communist scum, they are so full of themselves, one time a specific judge went dressed in a red suit with a red tie, on purpose. This was "not the case" in other decades here, as they used to be partial.

There is a spritual war going on, and it is really sad. Is seems like a tendency, the same happens every 100 hundred years, spawns of hell going loose every 100 year or so? I don't know, but is always the same. The only solution? Blood.

Now is a game for left wing bastards, some time from now, it won't be funny for anyone, on any side.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Orwell warned us about women in positions of authority long ago.


Go home.



nashismo said:


> There is a spritual war going on


Piew Piew. Quick, get me a dreamcatcher!



r0achtheunsavory said:


> Wait, did you just make up some random nonsense when the article clearly says Judge Jeanine was suspended for trying to cover voter fraud on a supposedly right wing network?


The article says sources close to the network tell us, that she was fired, because she wanted to mount a starch defense on Trump and expose the fraud which...

Us in that case is a random blog (why does that blog have sources within Fox)? And if the judge wanted to expose voting fraud - hey, post it on facebook. On your blog. On any of the 500 partisan scam sites. Its not that its Fox news or nothing.

Evidence can speak for itself. Let us see it then. Whats preventing you from releasing the information? If you are afraid of legal repercussions (why?), find any news outlet with a legal department. Its not 'Fox News at primetime, or nothing'.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



r0achtheunsavory said:


> "Qanon" was obviously setup as a new strawman group for the government to demonize as 'dangerous right-wing militia' like Timothy McVeigh.


So you believed in everything they said, until they called a right wing militia guy you liked dangerous, then you flipped to they are a strawman for the government. They tell me what I want to hear, except in that one case, where I wanted to follow that right wing militia dude?

Solid logic.

For someone who wants to say - you know something? Those crazy conspiracy peddlers with that 'mystery group share and subscribe vibe' in the end werent extreme enough for my tastes. So obviously they were a trap from the government.

Wow.


----------



## wartutor (Nov 8, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> https://twitter.com/fittingxivsongs/status/1325117522060914693
> 
> 
> Now hopefully we can get a second round of stimulus checks


This right here, lmao didnt even make it off the 1st page and someone already expecting free money, almost sounds like people voted for him expecting money i hope they never pass another stimulus bill after shit posts like this.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

AkGBA said:


> Wait. Did you just linked the suspension of a crazy Fox News host to a conspiracy wanting to murder 85% of the planet's population ?


  Since when has eugenics and population control been a conspiracy theory? Professor Stephen Kotkin wrote in The Wall Street Journal that communism killed at least 65 million people between 1917 and 2017. These people playing with social engineering and authoritarianism are the biggest mass murderers in the history of humanity.  Mao's great leap forward alone killed 65 million, the numbers way higher.   I could pull up the writings of any prominent leftist or any forum where progressives gather in mass and find no shortage of comments wishing for mass die offs of humanity.  The idea that there is not people in Western civilization that would do it directly is racist & dim considering genocide is not a rare occurrence in the east & Africa.   Shame on you for the "It can't happen here" mentality.


----------



## wartutor (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Since when has eugenics and population control been a conspiracy theory? Professor Stephen Kotkin wrote in The Wall Street Journal that communism killed at least 65 million people between 1917 and 2017. These people playing with social engineering and authoritarianism are the biggest mass murderers in the history of humanity.  Mao's great leap forward alone killed 65 million, the numbers way higher.   I could pull up the writings of any prominent leftist or any forum where progressives gather in mass and find no shortage of comments wishing for mass die offs of humanity.  The idea that there is not people in Western civilization that would do it directly is racist & dim considering genocide is not a rare occurrence in the east & Africa.   Shame on you for the "It can't happen here" mentality.


I have always wanted to see a meteor hit the global reset button.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Since when has eugenics and population control been a conspiracy theory?


Since when where they pillars of international decision making though?

You have the catholic church on an anti population control crusade since inception (because the more dumb poor people, the better their business model runs). And still increadibly influencial in many regions where it would matter.

And eugenics we banned from universities pretty much shortly after what it provoked during WW2.

Also Prince Philip is a nutter. And while those sentiments certainly are floating around, its not as if people are behaving like they follow them.


> However, at Cecile’s funeral in the German city of Darmstadt, Philip was photographed as part of a procession packed with uniformed Nazis, including Herman Goering himself.


and
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html

Covid if it sticks around for a while reducing life expectation also wouldnt necessarily be a solution against population explosion. From a 'who produces most CO2' perspective - maybe, but even then its hardly an obvious solution to anything. (People dont reproduce based on the notion if they'd die at 60 or 70-90 years of age. People dont emit CO2 the most, when they are 60 and above.)

Also - arent republicans the ones trying to kill off most people, while trying to make family structures larger, reduce abortion rights and so on?  (Which would mean more young people to exploit labor vise, and not having to pay for pensions, btw..  )


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

nashismo said:


> Now is a game for left wing bastards, some time from now, it won't be funny for anyone, on any side.



Most of the left is too dumb to even know what you're talking about after clicking your country of origin as Chile.  Anyway, a lot of the American dynamic of the situation is the left telling minorities they're victims when they're not - African on White violent crime rate is 10x higher than vice versa, so it's really white people that are the victims.

Because the left has agigated for all this racial stuff while being dishonest concerning everything about it, I'm sure much of the conflict that will go down will be along racial lines.  If any mayhem breaks out, the common weakling liberal living in a big city will probably be getting killed by the people they lied to telling them they're victims.

Cities will all be hell while less 'diverse' areas will probably be okay, unless there's full economic implosion, then who knows.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Most of the left is too dumb to even know what you're talking about after clicking your country of origin as Chile. Anyway, a lot of the American dynamic of the situation is the left telling minorities they're victims when they're not - African on White violent crime rate is 10x higher than vice versa, so it's really white people that are the victims.


Thats a false statistic.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...ows-incorrect-homicide-stats-race/5739522002/

You are spreading fake news.

Also - if you look at the numbers you are proposing it becomes instantly clear, that race segregation could be one of the major factors in those outcomes. So if there are no black people around in predominantly white communities, they also arent killed in white communities.

So you both create the problem (by wanting to stay away from black folks, or lock them away, or...) and you are promoting outrage over the problem.

This is self fulfilling racism.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Also - arent republicans the ones trying to kill of most people, while trying to make family structures larger, reduce abortion rights and so on?  (Which would mean more young people to exploit labor vise, and not having to pay for pensions, btw..  )


  Trump is the first President in my life who hasn't started a new war and was aggressively bringing our troops home, one of the many reasons the military industrial complex has spent the last 4 years attacking him, so I am happy to put up death tolls of Democrats wars, vs Republicans and who actually ends those wars. But you go ahead and give me a metric of what I need to present to demonstrate that "international decision making"  routinely kills millions of people and I'll be happy to pull one up for you.  Between the one child policy and death camps in China I am not seeing how this a conspiracy theory.  https://unglobalcompact.org/take-ac... hunger-could-kill-more-people-than-the-virus


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Thats a false statistic.
> 
> You are spreading fake news.



You are fake news.  Even Mike Tyson tweets the large black on white crime statistics (but his numbers aren't even correct and they're much higher):


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Thats a false statistic.
> 
> https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...ows-incorrect-homicide-stats-race/5739522002/
> 
> You are spreading fake news.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No it's not, it's playing games with per capita stats.  When it minimizes the black communities disproportionate contribution to crime the media just doesn't use per capita stats,


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Trump is the first President in my life who hasn't started a new war and was aggressively bringing our troops home, one of the many reasons the military industrial complex has spent the last 4 years attacking him, so I am happy to put up death tolls of Democrats wars, vs Republicans and who actually ends those wars.


Partly true. Especially the 'he didnt start any wars' part. On cooperation with the military industrial complex - not so much. He pushed the armament and build up of military capability (nunclear and conventional), he pledged to increase military funding, and he facilitated a large scale military deal, and extreme policies (f.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel ) in the middle east. Provoking future wars. (Thats what europe is partly so mad about.  )


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

It also depends on what year you quote, as I think violent crime topped out in the US around 1980 and 1995-ish.  The 1995-ish crime wave was like the peak of the 2pac gangster rap era.  Black people were killing each other off the charts but also killing lots of white people too.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> You are fake news.  Even Mike Tyson tweets the large black on white crime statistics (but his numbers aren't even correct and they're much higher):


You are missing black on black violence. And you are missing white on white violence. (As a reference on how big the violence problem gets overall (White on white killings and black on black killings are a FAR larger number in comparison - and they are roughly the same statistically. So your outrage about the smaller number in this subcathegory, and how it compares to other smaller subcategory - doesnt say anything about 'prevalence of violence by race', but about 'likelyhood of a black person to visit white communities').)

And again, you are producing this problem by arguing to have more black people stay out of white neighborhoods. And then you act outraged about it at the same time.

You are an instigator, caught in a self fulfilling profecy loop, both producing the problem, and spreading outrage about it. Thats whats called 'populism'.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

I didn't "advocate" anything. Stop making things up.  The only statement I made is that insane white liberals tell minorities that they're victims when they're obviously not when you look at the enormous black on white violent crime rate.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Partly true. Especially the 'he didnt start any wars' part. On cooperation with the military industrial complex - not so much. He pushed the armament and build up of military capability (nunclear and conventional), he pledged to increase military funding, and he facilitated a large scale military deal, and extreme policies (f.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel ) in the middle east. Provoking future wars. (Thats what europe is partly so mad about.  )



Overwhelming capability has always been the most effective method of peace, MAD is the reason the cold war stayed cold. Trump has brokered numerous peacedeals in the middle east and Balkans, little to no coverage.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54124996


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> You are an instigator, caught in a self fulfilling profecy loop, both producing the problem, and spreading outrage about it. Thats whats called 'populism'.



You are the instigator trying to push leftist lies on people that black people are victims and white people are the oppressor when the absurdly lopsided violent crime rate shows that to be an outrageous lie.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I didn't "advocate" anything. Stop making things up.


You posted those fake memes. That are actively leaving out the part, that would allow people to see whats actually happening.

Those memes arent created by chance.

So either way, you are a willing perpetrator of fake instagation and outrage rhetoric to increase political extremism. You are spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). You are doing psyops for right wing extremism. 

And so is Mike Tyson.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Overwhelming capability has always been the most effective method of peace


Not in the nuclear race. Not by a long shot.

Also pushing up capability is what gets you payed by the miletary industrial complex through backchannels, and also what is needed between wars, to be able to launch the next one.

Its also the main predictor of when new (edit: US) wars will happen, because you dont create all those new fancy weapens without wanting to use them.. 

So sure, there is an element of deterrence, but the US already outranks the next 10 largest armies in the world combined.

And no Trump did not reject the military industrial complex, he embraced it.  (Like everyone else.. Because its one of the last areas, where the US _truely_ are first world wide. (Well maybe on Navy not much longer, but..  ))


----------



## britain4 (Nov 8, 2020)

I don't follow US politics as a rule but I wouldn't have wanted to be in a position where I had to vote for either of those two


----------



## Subtle Demise (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You're right there should be more distance between most of these people, but at least they're wearing masks. Don't call them superspreaders without evidence of superspreading. Save that for Trump's rallies.


Haha, you just proved his point! "It's not a super spreader event if it's for MY guy!"

The LP should have had this one in the bag, but on top of voter suppression (ballot access laws that D and R are exempt from, and actively removing votes from results in some states, lack of media coverage), poor planning, marketing, seemingly purposely trying to lose (turning down a Joe Rogan interview), and Republican grifters like Austin Petersen telling their followers to vote Trump, they might have got at least into the double digits, and not the measly 1.1% they ended up with. Gary Johnson did better after the Aleppo thing that idiots still won't shut up about!

What we have witnessed is the largest exercise of woke cancel culture against a guy who said dumb shit on Twitter. Which of Trump's policies have affected you personally? Maybe the slight tax cut, but people are twisting that as a bad thing. Don't take this as a defense of Trump. His use of executive order to try and ban a piece of plastic was a constitutional violation, but what, 30 of them got turned in? So it was ineffectual at worst lol.  His endorsement of red flag confiscation orders was even worse constitutionally and morally.

What happened to this country? Most thought our only choices were between two racist pedophiles with dementia. That's strange because I remember there being like 6 people on my ballot for president (Kanye wasn't on the Michigan ballot, but I would have accepted his presidency over the other 2). The choices are there, but people come up with excuses not to choose them. Those excuses amount to circular reasoning ( nobody will vote for a third party because they won't win because nobody will vote for a third party), and nothing more. Just keep on begging for more and more boots on their collective necks. Truly disgusting. For what exactly? For the illusion of security and safety. Stop giving up your autonomy, look at Australia and the UK, they get arrested for goddamn Facebook posts for Christ's sake. Just remember you can vote your way into tyranny, but you have to shoot your way out of it. Until they ban guns of course lol.

Anyway, some good and bad ballot measures passed in some states. Michigan decided to enforce the fourth amendment for electronic communications (we needed a ballot measure for this!?). Oregon decriminalized drug possession similar to Portugal's system ( I'll make a new thread about this). Unfortunately California may have screwed gig workers in a big way, but we will see how that pans out when it becomes law. 

So yeah...basically: 4 years of mask mandates and potential nationwide lockdowns ( states are already doing this, so whatever), and more gun gun control ( again, not that worried, gun grabbing has been going on since Washington, so we will deal with it when necessary). Eh kinda lame if you ask me.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> *There is no "Qanon".  It's fake.* *Just like there's no such thing as "BLM".*  Do people really think a bunch of angry black people created this group when it's right out in the open that Susan Rosenberg (convicted terrorist who is not black pardoned by Bill Clinton) and people like George Soros (not black - duh) are organizing this crap?
> 
> *"Qanon" was obviously setup* as a new strawman group for the government to demonize as 'dangerous right-wing militia' like Timothy McVeigh. *They'll stage some fake event then use the event to try and create a bigger police state* and seize rights or attempt to ban the 2nd amendment.


Oh look!  Now he's even using conspiracy theories to explain the origin of conspiracy theories.  Perfectly rational and totally believable.


----------



## MichiS97 (Nov 8, 2020)

Ah yes, right wing tears, inject them into my veins! 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

MichiS97 said:


> Ah yes, right wing tears, inject them into my veins!



They're actually good to drink too. I've replaced my morning coffee with them. But yeah. The amount of deplorable melting is absolutely fabulous.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

Subtle Demise said:


> Haha, you just proved his point! "It's not a super spreader event if it's for MY guy!"
> 
> The LP should have had this one in the bag, but on top of voter suppression (ballot access laws that D and R are exempt from, and actively removing votes from results in some states, lack of media coverage), poor planning, marketing, seemingly purposely trying to lose (turning down a Joe Rogan interview), and Republican grifters like Austin Petersen telling their followers to vote Trump, they might have got at least into the double digits, and not the measly 1.1% they ended up with. Gary Johnson did better after the Aleppo thing that idiots still won't shut up about!
> 
> ...


It's a superspreader event when the aforementioned event causes a demonstrable rise in COVID-19 cases, like Trump's rallies.

Biden is neither racist nor a pedophile.


----------



## emigre (Nov 8, 2020)

I would like to say the following, fuck Trump.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

this entire thread is so bullshit it's funny because they'll make up literally anything to avoid admitting they lost
like it's ascended beyond circlejerking
these idiots are practically competing to see who can come up with the stupidest possible theory


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

Anyone remember this line? "Hillary lost. Get over it." Time to suck it up ...ummm... whats that term? Oh yes.... Time to suck it up, snowflakes. Practice what you preach. Trump lost. Get over it. Try not to cry for the next 4 years like you all told Dems to not do. Deplorables. STILL the world leaders of pathological hypocrites.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

britain4 said:


> I don't follow US politics as a rule but I wouldn't have wanted to be in a position where I had to vote for either of those two


Nobody was in a position to vote for them it’s only who they received coverage for, we have tons of third parties that get crap coverage and aren’t even on all the ballots. I sincerely think that if third parties got a fair share in America this year’s results would’ve been different.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> No body wasn’t in a position to do vote for them it’s who they do only received coverage for



Are you drunk? lol


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Are you drunk? lol


Nah, I was typing too fast  I’ll edit it


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

With 3 parties or more, you should have an election in two parts.

One with all the candidates
And a second one with the two having the most votes.

America is not prepared. Fix your electoral system first.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

AkGBA said:


> With 3 parties or more, you should have an election in two parts.
> 
> One with all the candidates
> And a second one with the two having the most votes.
> ...


We also need to either fix or abolish our electoral college


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

Preaching to the choir.


----------



## leon315 (Nov 8, 2020)

to ALL LIBERALS, not so fast to celebrate, ye all still have to face some biggest internal challenges, and it's just the beginning.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Anyone remember this line? "Hillary lost. Get over it." Time to suck it up ...ummm... whats that term? Oh yes.... Time to suck it up, snowflakes. Practice what you preach. Trump lost. Get over it. Try not to cry for the next 4 years like you all told Dems to not do. Deplorables. STILL the world leaders of pathological hypocrites.


Dont dish this out, even if you have taken it in.

You are showing abusive behavior.

Telling people to 'suck it up' if they are in a state of shock or something similar seldomly is the correct thing to do.


----------



## AkGBA (Nov 8, 2020)

Yeah. Be best.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

I think all that matters now is the fact people are over looking projected. 


There’s still certification and we can’t forget the recounts and lawsuits I’ll accept whatever outcome of those.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Dont dish this out, even if you have taken it in.
> 
> You are showing abusive behavior.
> 
> Telling people to 'suck it up' if they are in a state of shock or something similar seldomly is the correct thing to do.



"Abusive behavior"


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Dont dish this out, even if you have taken it in.
> 
> You are showing abusive behavior.
> 
> Telling people to 'suck it up' if they are in a state of shock or something similar seldomly is the correct thing to do.


If I may ask what are you implying as similar as in all cases it’s not the right thing to do.


D34DL1N3R said:


> "Abusive behavior"


I saw no abusive behavior behind that either, you we’re blatantly recycling a quote


----------



## Joe88 (Nov 8, 2020)

AkGBA said:


> With 3 parties or more, you should have an election in two parts.
> 
> One with all the candidates
> And a second one with the two having the most votes.
> ...


It wont matter because only the R and D candidate would ever advance, all other party candidates get 0 media coverage unless its an attack piece ("what is aleppo?") , get little to no donations, when the other candidates are spending in the range of almost a billion dollars and they only have 10-20k to spend out of pocket and maybe get a million in donations, cant attend the presidential debates, and the first time millions of americans even see their name for the first time is on the limited number states that they were allowed on the ballot


----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> My condolences to all Americans.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but Biden is going to make the United States lose power. I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.
> 
> I am in favor of the alternation of parties, however I consider that it is not the best moment since the North American policies not only influence their own territory but also the rest of the world.



yes but women and trans and blacks and immigration and blacks and anti this and that and blacks and all that and blacks....

No point in reasoning with americans. As with their wars starting 2001, everyone told them it wasn't a great idea but they didn't stop till they turned their country into a debt ridden shithole from the double surplus clinton left.

Come to see it this way - americans are like thick swine, and as such only happy when rolling around in their muck.

Wait and watch biden, and then evetually kamala make their country the next south africa, and then zimbabwe. But, they deserve it.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

this thread is an exponentially growing shitshow filled with trumpnuts going through the first four stages of grief on a groundhog day loop over and over again as they slowly but surely realize they've lost... and then it resets before they can finally hit stage five and they figure out something else to blame


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> yes but women and trans and blacks and immigration and blacks and anti this and that and blacks and all that and blacks....
> 
> No point in reasoning with americans. As with their wars starting 2001, everyone told them it wasn't a great idea but they didn't stop till they turned their country into a debt ridden shithole from the double surplus clinton left.
> 
> ...



How dare you come in here and bash every, single, American... and America itself. Go fuck yourself.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> "Abusive behavior"


Potentially abusive behavior.

Its one thing to tell a person, to puzzle out their emotions and believes with a reality like 'Trump is now no longer president' and its another to tell the person, that whatever tantrum they are throwing, they'd have to 'suck it up'.

This is not 'a child hasnt understood yet, that they cant have something they want - so they throw a tantrum' this is peoples realities and self images being questioned in some form. And if you show an extreme devotedness - to an authority figure you might not even have met in your life, those selfimages might not be the dopest ones. So no - dont suck it up. Let it out.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Potentially abusive behavior.
> 
> Its one thing to tell a person, to puzzle out their emotions and believes with a reality like 'Trump is now president' and its another to tell the person, that whatever tantrum they are throwing, they'd have to 'suck it up'.
> 
> This is not 'a child hasnt understood yet, that they cant have something they want - so they throw a tantrum' this is peoples realities and self images being questioned in some form. And if you show an extreme devotedness - to an authority figure you might not even have met in your life, those selfimages might not be the dopest ones. So no - dont suck it up. Let it out.



Yup. Let it all out. What, you mean like terrorist plots against polling stations and the likes, at the hands of the right because they just need to "Let it out"? Okaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Yup. Let it all out. What, you mean like terrorist plots against polling stations and the likes, at the hands of the right because they just need to "Let it out"? Okaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy.


Havent read that far back. Were you confronting a terrorist plot?

Do you think telling a potential self radicalized terrorist ot 'suck it up - and act normal' will make it better?

This will cause them to internalize their ideas, potentially hide them from their surrounding, not be accessible for other people (verbally, emotionally), ... Do you think this would help?

In any situation? Even theoretically?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Havent read that far back. Were you confronting a terrorist plot?
> 
> Do you think telling a potential self radicalized terrorist ot 'suck it up - and act normal' will make it better?



This is obviously EXTREMELY over your head. You're the one telling people to let it all out, all of their anger and hatred over losing. Not me. The right are the ones threatening polling stations with violence. Not the Dems. In answer to your question. I don't think it will make any difference. But you want to have some sort of "Be Best" attitude, while at the same time telling people to just let it all out. So only one side is supposed to do that... or?


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

Verbally. And not if they are treatening others. Again, are you making this sick example up, or were you confronting someone who actually said, they would resort to an act of violence?

(But even then, yes let it out (verbally) over shut up and close up emotionally. Although at that point, you are correct, this is entirely outside my expertise.)


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 8, 2020)

hah, bitch


----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> How dare you come in here and bash every, single, American... and America itself. Go fuck yourself.



Haha, ok. Go celebrate or something.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> are you making this sick example up, or were you confronting someone who actually said, they would resort to an act of violence?



"Armed Trump supporter arrested at NC voting site faces new charges"

"Armed Trump supporters attempt to storm Arizona election polls"

"Armed Trump supporters at Florida polling site were off-duty guards and had not been hired"

What are they showing up at polling stations for, armed? To keep the peace?



MadonnaProject said:


> Haha, ok. Go celebrate or something.



Believe me, I am. How about you? Oh, that's right. Nothing to celebrate.


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Armed Trump supporter arrested at NC voting site faces new charges"
> 
> "Armed Trump supporters attempt to storm Arizona election polls"
> 
> ...


Hey, snap out of it.  Its me. I'm not your opponent on this.  No, this behavior is not ok, yes this behavior is overtly threatening. No I dont condone it in any way.

I just didnt like the 'suck it up and take it' approach of settling the situation.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> Hey, snap out of it.  Its me. I'm not your opponent on this.  No, this behavior is not ok, yes this behavior is overtly threatening. No I dont condone it in any way.
> 
> I just didnt like the 'suck it up and take it' approach of settling the situation.



I was merely telling the Trumpers to remember their own thoughts and words. In 2016 and throughout his entire 4 years in office Dems have been told told to suck it up, accept the loss, move on, called buttercups, snowflakes, told not to melt, not to be triggered, etc. etc. etc. Yet here they are.... causing a scene everywhere they go and every time they open their mouths. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> "Armed Trump supporter arrested at NC voting site faces new charges"
> 
> "Armed Trump supporters attempt to storm Arizona election polls"
> 
> ...



Not american, had no dog in this race. We're just watching and laughing. But you don't realise this do you?

The world hates you lot, your right and left. After 20 years of destroying other nations now you are destroying yourselves from within, but you deserve it.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> Not american, had no dog in this race. We're just watching and laughing. But you don't realise this do you?
> 
> The world hates you lot, your right and left. After 20 years of destroying other nations now you are destroying yourselves from within, but you deserve it.



I don't remember personally making any policies to destroy other countries. I am not a politician. I could say you did _____________ that hurt other countries because your country did it but I assume you're not about a politician either. It's easy to lump everyone in together but Governments pretty much do what they want and people don't really have a say. There are always innocent people in every country I have seen people in America say "nuke the entire middle east wipe them out" but that is ignorant as there are good people there too. I just think we should keep in mind Government's don't ask the people before they do things if they did it would be divided anyway so it's more sensible to separate Government and people of a country.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

It would seem the media has declared Biden the winner, but the President and some Republicans disagree. So that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people celebrating with most not adhering to social distancing and some not wearing masks. It seems COVID-19 is no longer an issue with Liberals. I also don't see how realistically speaking the how the Liberals expect the Conservatives to concede and come together when they spent 4 years denying Trump was the President and calling the election rigged by Russia. Heck, now they claim elections can't be rigged. The Liberals are also claiming any unrest, such as protests would be Domestic terrorism, but when they burn, loot, rob and murder that's just peaceful protesting. I'm not going to concede for one minute and if the protests get ugly or impeachment is used as a weapon against Biden that'll just be karma coming back on the sore losers of 2016.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> Not american, had no dog in this race. We're just watching and laughing. But you don't realise this do you?
> 
> The world hates you lot, your right and left. After 20 years of destroying other nations now you are destroying yourselves from within, but you deserve it.



Oh, I realized you aren't American. Do you think you were being sneaky or something? Because it was quite obvious by your I hate America and Americans post. I realize plenty of other things too. The first is that you're a self absorbed, holier than thou, asshole. Is there some reason you don't have your own country flag displayed?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> It would seem the media has declared Biden the winner, but the President and some Republicans disagree. So that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people celebrating with most not adhering to social distancing and some not wearing masks. It seems COVID-19 is no longer an issue with Liberals. I also don't see how realistically speaking the how the Liberals expect the Conservatives to concede and come together when they spent 4 years denying Trump was the President and calling the election rigged by Russia. Heck, now they claim elections can't be rigged. The Liberals are also claiming any unrest, such as protests would be Domestic terrorism, but when they burn, loot, rob and murder that's just peaceful protesting. I'm not going to concede for one minute and if the protests get ugly or impeachment is used as a weapon against Biden that'll just be karma coming back on the sore losers of 2016.



Respect your opinion but just be aware this is your first post and you're taking a stance against the majority on this site they will call you a bot/shill/rejoiner.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I also don't see how realistically speaking the how the Liberals expect the Conservatives to concede and come together when they spent 4 years denying Trump was the President and calling the election rigged by Russia. Heck, now they claim elections can't be rigged. The Liberals are also claiming any unrest, such as protests would be Domestic terrorism, but when they burn, loot, rob and murder that's just peaceful protesting. I'm not going to concede for one minute and if the protests get ugly or impeachment is used as a weapon against Biden that'll just be karma coming back on the sore losers of 2016.



1) You mean like Republicans spent 8 years denying that Obama was President?
2) There WAS Russian interference in the 2016 election. Fact.
3) There is ZERO credible evidence of Dems rigging this election
4) I have seen no Dems saying elections cannot be rigged
5) If Dems could so easily rig this election, they would have done so the last one too, and Trump would have never been elected
6) Regarding protests, you can't just lump everyone into the same category. Myself and every other Democrat I know had zero part in burning, looting, robbing, murdering anyone
7) Republicans are also involved in violent, non-peaceful protesting
8) Sore losers of 2016? That's funny, coming from an extremely obvious sore loser this time around


----------



## notimp (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I was merely telling the Trumpers to remember their own thoughts and words. In 2016 and throughout his entire 4 years in office Dems have been told told to suck it up, accept the loss, move on, called buttercups, snowflakes, told not to melt, not to be triggered, etc. etc. etc. Yet here they are.... causing a scene everywhere they go and every time they open their mouths. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.


And I was telling you not to do that. Eye for an eye is a terrible way of dishing out advise. 

For all I know you were really getting into it because you felt you ware 'protecting society' by telling other people to 'suck it up' and not wear guns, or protesting - demanding their version of 'justice', getting into a mindspace, where you were literally saving lives, by afflicting that amount of hurt you felt to others in return. 

Let the cycle continue, and we have a vendetta based society in no time.. 

(Hint: People protesting is there for them to vent that hate. Wearing guns while doing it is far from optimal or needed, but open carrying laws deal with that. Telling people that feel that driven about this cause to suck it up still is a bad Idea and yes - I'm being overly insistent on this, just to prove a point.  Not in principal. Emotionally I can understand your point. I'd be even inclined to let it slide, if I'd have read beforehand what you were addressing.  But connect some dots here. Figure out how society works..  )

(If people are in those large ingroups chanting slogans and stuff, they feel larger, 'as one', being heard... the chances of those people making use of their guns is probably smaller (if you dont add heat, so they might become a mob), than if you have them somewehere in isolation 'sucking it up'. But no, I dont want to eat my words, or 'test that scenario' - here I'm just smug for no reason..  )


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

notimp said:


> And I was telling you not to do that. Eye for an eye is a terrible way of dishing out advise.
> 
> For all I know you were really getting into it because you felt you ware 'protecting society' by telling other people to 'suck it up' and not wear guns, or protesting - demanding their version of 'justice', getting into a mindspace, where you were literally saving lives, by afflicting that amount of hurt you felt to others in return.
> 
> ...



You're still missing the point. Shrug. And that entire "protecting society" bit was just odd. A vendetta based society? Already exists.


----------



## britain4 (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> Nobody was in a position to vote for them it’s only who they received coverage for, we have tons of third parties that get crap coverage and aren’t even on all the ballots. I sincerely think that if third parties got a fair share in America this year’s results would’ve been different.



That sounds like much the same story in the UK - there are smaller parties but in most cases it's just a waste of time and paper voting for any of them as only Labour and Tories have got a chance, you don't "have" to vote for them but mostly (for me) it's a question of voting for who you dislike the least out of those two


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I was merely telling the Trumpers to remember their own thoughts and words. In 2016 and throughout his entire 4 years in office Dems have been told told to suck it up, accept the loss, move on, called buttercups, snowflakes, told not to melt, not to be triggered, etc. etc. etc. Yet here they are.... causing a scene everywhere they go and every time they open their mouths. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.


Do you remember the IMDB messageboards?  Sometimes informative, other times hilarious, or even devious (the "I warned him" meme originated there), it was the go-to place to discuss TV shows and movies.  Every single person credited had their own messageboard, which encouraged discussions about lesser known actors who wouldn't garner much discussion elsewhere.  The "Where are they now?" topics were always interesting.

On Feb. 20th 2017, the IMDB messageboards were permanently shutdown.  Why?  Because Trump had won the election 3 months earlier, the MAGA troll army were still in the middle of their social media victory tour.  Clearly there was no better place to hunt down "snowflakes," "cucks," "betas," "SJWs," etc., than on a fricking movie database messageboard.  Well, specifically a messageboard that was owned by Jeff Bezos.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You're still missing the point. Shrug. And that entire "protecting society" bit was just odd. A vendetta based society? Already exists.


I think I get what notimp was saying just poorly worded. Let me try to figure out what he's saying.

I think he was saying to let people vent their anger by protesting no matter how hypocritical they are, because if they bottle their emotions they can get into violent outbursts, and maybe even into violent shootings. Its better to protest then to shoot. They'll eventually calm down and go to work.

This is the same belief, the call for internet censorship which prevents people from talking about their beliefs, after the shootings happened a few months ago. That if you ban Republicans from major sites then they'll find somewhere else to go and the only place that'll accept them is white supremacists. So you'll make the situation worse instead of better. You have to let people a space to talk and vent no matter how crazy you think it may be. This was the same argument used before and it looks like the same argument notimp is using I think. Let people vent rather then bottle it up inside. It'll do everyone good.

This is what feminist believe is the problem with men in society. That men don't express themselves and told to tough it out, which is why some are suicidal or abusive. It eventually piles on and on till they explode in anger. So you can't give the same advice to Republicans, to tough it out. Tough it out is what feminist belive is wrong with men in society.

Yes you have an urge to tell Trump supporters to suck it up because that's what they told you, you want to point out their hypocrisy, you want to do the same what they did to you, to rub in your victory. And to tell them be quiet because you don't want to hear them complain. But its a wasted effort on your part because democrats didn't shut up when trump won and Republicans aren't going to do the same after biden won.


----------



## almmiron (Nov 8, 2020)

I'm from Brazil.

USA's president will continue to golden shower Bolsonaro anyways...

USA is still USA for the rest of the world.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)




----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Oh, I realized you aren't American. Do you think you were being sneaky or something? Because it was quite obvious by your I hate America and Americans post. I realize plenty of other things too. The first is that you're a self absorbed, holier than thou, asshole. Is there some reason you don't have your own country flag displayed?



I don't personally hate americans. I think that's a word bandied about by your kind. I do dislike some of them like you. One day when you achieve emotional maturity you'll realise criticising someone is not hating them. I did say people around the world hate america, but that is not news is it? Many like it too.

I also didn't call you names or swore at you a single time. Look how you're behaving and you call me self absorbed and holier than thou? THIS very behaviour is why you americans are hated. An ability to be the most horrific aggressor but also act the aggreived victim. An ignorant and ugly nature oblivious of yourself even.

If you're capable, think of how you're behaving. I bet you wouldn't because your kind are not sentient enough to do so.

I have given you three replies now. That's two more than what your life is worth. I'm not in the mood for further charity. Go bother someone else.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 8, 2020)

britain4 said:


> That sounds like much the same story in the UK - there are smaller parties but in most cases it's just a waste of time and paper voting for any of them as only Labour and Tories have got a chance, you don't "have" to vote for them but mostly (for me) it's a question of voting for who you dislike the least out of those two


Exactly third parties need their fair share


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I don't personally hate americans. I think that's a word bandied about by your kind. I do dislike some of them like you. One day when you achieve emotional maturity you'll realise criticising someone is not hating them. I did say people around the world hate america, but that is not news is it? Many like it too.
> 
> I also didn't call you names or swore at you a single time. Look how you're behaving and you call me self absorbed and holier than thou? THIS very behaviour is why you americans are hated. An ability to be the most horrific aggressor but also act the aggreived victim. An ignorant and ugly nature oblivious of yourself even.
> 
> ...



How nice of you to try to pretend to be the "good guy" here, after you were called out. Lmao. Whatever. Keep pretending and keep being a hypocrite.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> How nice of you to try to pretend to be the "good guy" here, after you were called out. Lmao. Whatever. Keep pretending.



Lesson for emotional maturity:

- Not everyone who is "not good" in your mind is bad
- Not everything has to agree with you
- Not every motive is bourne out of hate
- not every criticism a threat

Evolve as a citizen of the world. I have travelled to over 30 countries. americans like you are the most pathetic of people, utterly uneducated, completely ignorant, desperately unhappy and horrifically angry. In fact, you burden the world by being in it.

I don't need to pretend to be good or bad to you. You are an american. Nothing.

Good job though, you managed a reply without swearing. I have taught you something today. As a reward here's another reply. But enough though, its boring, like kicking something sick and rabid. In the head.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> Lesson for emotional maturity:
> 
> - Not everyone who is "not good" in your mind is bad
> - Not everything has to agree with you
> ...



Well I would put you in the category of bad not because you're from a certain country which is ignorant, but because of your thoughts that you give on this thread.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> Lesson for emotional maturity:
> 
> - Not everyone who is "not good" in your mind is bad
> - Not everything has to agree with you
> ...



You're the one coming in a US presidential topic talking about your hatred towards America and Americans. Try to cover it up all you'd like after the fact, but backpeddling things you made quite clear isn't going to work. You were the one acting holier than thou, holier than all of America, saying we all deserve whatever unfortunate events you think we all "deserve", all of your "Your type" bullshit, calling people pathetic, slinging insults, telling people they are nothing. Ohhhhhh. BUT BUT BUT BUT!!!!! MY INSULTS ARE NOT ACTUAL INSULTS CUZ I DIDN'T SWEAR IN THEM! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! You make me laugh, kiddo.

I'll say it once more to you little one. HYPOCRITE. You started this with your anti-America bullshit. Try again, And for the record, traveling does not make you evolved. Is someone supposed to be impressed?

"No point in reasoning with americans."

"Americans are like thick swine, and as such only happy when rolling around in their muck"

"Wait and watch biden, and then evetually kamala make their country the next south africa, and then zimbabwe. But, they deserve it."

"you are destroying yourselves from within, but you deserve it."

"your kind"

"I do dislike some of them like you."

"If you're capable"

"your kind are not sentient enough to do so"

"more than what your life is worth"

"Evolve as a citizen of the world. I have travelled to over 30 countries."

"americans like you are the most pathetic of people, utterly uneducated, completely ignorant, desperately unhappy and horrifically angry" 

"you burden the world by being in it."

Says the guy preaching about how to act and behave. SMFH.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> We also need to either fix or abolish our electoral college



Another post from an ignorant child leftist.  The US is NOT a direct democracy because that's just mob rule where if you can get 6 out of 10 people to vote to steal from or kill the other 4 then it happens.

The US is also NOT a federal supremacy system and was created upon the idea of state's rights.  One state is not allowed to tell the other 49 what to do.  If you get one trillion people to reproduce out of control in New York, they don't get to use their excess population to plunder from the other 49 or act as fascist authoritarians over the other states either.

This forum has a huge amount of gay people on it that are constantly pushing far left ideas like mob rule/abolishing electoral college while pretending gay people are also the majority.  In case you didn't notice, that is not the case, and in any system of mob rule, it can turn on you at the drop of a hat where the same mob suddenly votes to throw people off rooftops like in Iran.

Gay people voting for mob rule is probably the #1 dumbest, Darwin award event I've ever seen in my life.  On a short timeline you might believe it will give you some type of benefit, but on a long enough timeline, it will just wind up having people thrown off rooftops.  The only logical thing you should be voting for is a republic which safeguards individual liberty, not mob rule.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Another post from an ignorant child leftist.  The US is NOT a direct democracy because that's just mob rule where if you can get 6 out of 10 people to vote to steal from or kill the other 4 then it happens.
> 
> The US is also NOT a federal supremacy system and was created upon the idea of state's rights.  One state is not allowed to tell the other 49 what to do.  If you get one trillion people to reproduce out of control in New York, they don't get to use their excess population to plunder from the other 49 or act as fascist authoritarians over the other states either.
> 
> ...


Lol at calling democracy "mob rule." Grow up.

Edit: Also, suggesting Republicans want to protect gay rights is equally laughable.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Another post from an ignorant child leftist.  The US is NOT a direct democracy because that's just mob rule where if you can get 6 out of 10 people to vote to steal from or kill the other 4 then it happens.
> 
> The US is also NOT a federal supremacy system and was created upon the idea of state's rights.  One state is not allowed to tell the other 49 what to do.  If you get one trillion people to reproduce out of control in New York, they don't get to use their excess population to plunder from the other 49 or act as fascist authoritarians over the other states either.
> 
> ...



Another post from an ignorant child deplorable.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Well I would put you in the category of bad not because you're from a certain country which is ignorant, but because of your thoughts that you give on this thread.



Absolutely fine.

You're calmer than the other one. I couldn't bother to read his last post. Probably more swearing and calling me words and using the F word then pretending to be offended and victimised.

My intention was not to offend anyone, just to have my say as strong as it may be. But with your country people sometimes having your say is the greatest digression.

Let's agree to disgree, be adults and move on.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 8, 2020)

okay wow this has gone even further than I expected
now people calling the idea of true democracy "mob rule"? this is a novel form of dumbassery.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Lol at calling democracy "mob rule." Grow up.



Then you are "loling" at the founding fathers of the United States and demonstrating a extreme lack of knowledge in regards to basic civics and U.S. history.  They all called it mob rule, the op is quoting Thomas Jefferson who borrowed it from Plato.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

You all know that technically this threads title is fake news, Biden isn't the President Elect just yet. Just because the "media projects he will be" doesn't make him be it. Don't get all upset if Trump wins the lawsuits and we find out there was massive fraud and Trump stays in office. You shouldn't really count your chickens until they are hatched.

I also noticed the Democratic Governors have stopped arresting people that gather together in large groups and aren't practicing social distant.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

It's over.  The vote rigging software "dominion" and "hammer and scorecard" are already being discussed in mainstream media.  They fired judge Jeanine on Fox to prevent her from blowing the whistle about it but others like Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business ran shows on it anyway today.

Biden had such little support - even from the left because he's a career criminal 90 year old white guy - that it required over 90,000+ cases of voter fraud in every single swing state they're claiming he won.  On the night of the election, every single leftist I saw on Twitter knew Biden lost horribly, but the media, CIA, and big tech monopolies still pursued their insanely obvious rigging anyway.

The fraud is so large it's like trying to tell people the sky is green and Biden will never be recognized as ruler.  People pushing this Biden fraud are far more likely to be recognized as enemy combatants illegally and illegitimately attempting to occupy the federal government.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Then you are "loling" at the founding fathers of the United States and demonstrating a extreme lack of knowledge in regards to basic civics and U.S. history.  They all called it mob rule, the op is quoting Thomas Jefferson who borrowed it from Plato.


Fact check: Thomas Jefferson never said this. Don't trust every meme you read.

That being said, I laugh at the stupidity of the founding fathers all the time. They got a lot right, but they also got a lot very, very wrong.

I suggest you look into the actual undemocratic and racist history of the electoral college.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Respect your opinion but just be aware this is your first post and you're taking a stance against the majority on this site they will call you a bot/shill/rejoiner.



Good, I'll know who to block then.



D34DL1N3R said:


> 1) You mean like Republicans spent 8 years denying that Obama was President?
> 2) There WAS Russian interference in the 2016 election. Fact.
> 3) There is ZERO credible evidence of Dems rigging this election
> 4) I have seen no Dems saying elections cannot be rigged
> ...



What about? WHAT ABOUT!!!! W H A T A B O U T. Hahaha. I was referring to the last 4 years and the next 4 years. I'm not accepting Biden as the President and support the impeachment process to be started right now. That's even if he wins as he's "only projected to win" at this point in time.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Lol at calling democracy "mob rule." Grow up.
> 
> Edit: Also, suggesting Republicans want to protect gay rights is equally laughable.



We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Get your facts right kiddo.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Good, I'll know who to block then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 you're sad...
 you should feel bad


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Good, I'll know who to block then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Impeachment isn't something you lob at presidents merely because you dislike them. There's literally no grounds on which to impeach Biden. Also, Biden is going to be the next president of the United States (unless he dies or something). Get over it. He won.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> Absolutely fine.
> 
> You're calmer than the other one. I couldn't bother to read his last post. Probably more swearing and calling me words and using the F word then pretending to be offended and victimised.
> 
> ...



You are so completely full of shit. You know full well you read my last reply. Once again, you'd trying to back-peddle in a pathetic attempt to not look as incredibly ignorant and hypocritical as you have been. You were called out on every ounce of your hypocrisy, and now it's "But but but!!! But but but!!!! I didn't mean to offend!!" Bullshit. Your every intention was to offend. Period. I've already stated this, but playing the innocent now is too late.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Impeachment isn't something you lob at presidents merely because you dislike them. .



That's rich, your party did that to Trump for 4 years it was one lie after another, none of them stuck. But credit where credit is due, the Trump hate got Biden elected. Your party won with hate, not to mention cheating.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Good, I'll know who to block then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think I ever made the argument that presidents are currently elected via direct democracy. I'm saying they should be.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

We are either going into civil war or the dominion voting system + hammer and scorecard vote rigging algorithm results will be tossed and the people who pushed it going to jail.  It's 100% impossible to suppress this information and massive voter fraud that occurred. 

They didn't need a few thousand votes rigged in swing states.  They need literally 100,000+.  It's not possible to cover up that level of fraud.  People on the left shouldn't be trying to cover this up.  More like you should be afraid that you live in a complete banana republic where the CIA, media, and Google tech monopolies all collude in an authoritarian/fascist manner, throw out the votes, and just  give you a puppet candidate.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> That's rich, your party did that to Trump for 4 years it was one lie after another, none of them stuck. But credit where credit is due, the Trump hate got Biden elected. Your party won with hate, not to mention cheating.


There's no evidence of cheating, aside from what Trump attempted to do. And Trump was impeached because he committed impeachable offenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impea...t of Donald Trump,charges on February 5, 2020.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Fact check: Thomas Jefferson never said this. Don't trust every meme you read.
> 
> That being said, I laugh at the stupidity of the founding fathers all the time. They got a lot right, but they also got a lot very, very wrong.
> 
> I suggest you look into the actual undemocratic and racist history of the electoral college.



Fact check, he did too.  It's in the Jefferson encyclopedia and reading his works it was a common theme.  The Founders all shared this sentiment.     If your worried about racism and slavery they still have it in Africa & the middle east, play your violin at someone else.  I am not voting based on victimhood and preserving buggery.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

djpannda said:


> you're sad...
> you should feel bad



I'm not sad. The facts are Joe Biden is only projected to be the winner by the leftist media. He actually at this point in time hasn't won anything. Why would that make me sad?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Oof, well at least dumb cheeto man will have great memes. Thats the only good thing he brought, while i don't agree with some things biden is doing, (Putting restrictions on guns is stupid, and there is no defending that) In my opinion, he's way better then trump.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> It's over.  The vote rigging software "dominion" and "hammer and scorecard" are already being discussed in mainstream media.  They fired judge Jeanine on Fox to prevent her from blowing the whistle about it but others like Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business ran shows on it anyway today.
> 
> Biden had such little support - even from the left because he's a career criminal 90 year old white guy - that it required over 90,000+ cases of voter fraud in every single swing state they're claiming he won.  On the night of the election, every single leftist I saw on Twitter knew Biden lost horribly, but the media, CIA, and big tech monopolies still pursued their insanely obvious rigging anyway.
> 
> The fraud is so large it's like trying to tell people the sky is green and Biden will never be recognized as ruler.  People pushing this Biden fraud are far more likely to be recognized as enemy combatants illegally and illegitimately attempting to occupy the federal government.


If your going to post bullshit at least try make it convincing. Like Bidens age we all know he is 78 so your lies about him being 90 are laughable. And let's not forget the amount of laws Trump has broken over the years including numerous laws here in Scotland with his Trump Golf course and Hotel in St Andrews. He has been fined several times for braking laws here. So yes Biden may or not be a criminal but Trump is no different with his constant law breaking in my country.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Biden will not be President of the United states, a election is only as valid as the losing sides faith the process was legitimate.  The Soviet Union collapsed in under a week.  Pretend it can't happen here.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check, he did too.  It's in the Jefferson encyclopedia and reading his works it was a common theme.  The Founders all shared this sentiment.     If your worried about racism and slavery they still have it in Africa & the middle east, play your violin at someone else.  I am not voting based on victimhood and preserving buggery.


https://checkyourfact.com/2019/06/18/fact-check-thomas-jefferson-democracy-mob-rule/


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There's no evidence of cheating, aside from what Trump attempted to do. And Trump was impeached because he committed impeachable offenses.



I don't take a bunch of idiot leftists hiding behind wiki entries as some de facto source. Your side decided to impeach Trump before he even took office so it's fair game to impeach Biden if he does win. We should start planning on how to go about it right now.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not sad. The facts are Joe Biden is only projected to be the winner by the leftist media. He actually at this point in time hasn't won anything. Why would that make me sad?


oh I'm sorry I think you misunderstood . I did not mean that you are sad as in "affected with or expressive of grief or unhappiness"
 I meant pathetic. I did not mean to cause confusion and for that I am truly sorry


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not sad. The facts are Joe Biden is only projected to be the winner by the leftist media. He actually at this point in time hasn't won anything. Why would that make me sad?


You are right that he's only the presumptive president-elect until after the Electoral College meets. However, he is the presumptive president-elect. It's over. You're arguing semantics of timing.


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not sad. The facts are Joe Biden is only projected to be the winner by the leftist media.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> https://checkyourfact.com/2019/06/18/fact-check-thomas-jefferson-democracy-mob-rule/


http://Iamafactcheckertoo.com/hedidsosaythat


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

You do know we can only impeach biden if he did something illegal, and for one, most people don't want him impeached, and 2, there is no evidence. So shut up and go look at memes.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I don't take a bunch of idiot leftists hiding behind wiki entries as some de facto source. Your side decided to impeach Trump before he even took office so it's fair game to impeach Biden if he does win. We should start planning on how to go about it right now.


Fact check: The Democrats did not decide to impeach Donald Trump until he committed the aforementioned offenses.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You are right that he's only the presumptive president-elect until after the Electoral College meets. However, he is the presumptive president-elect. It's over. You're arguing semantics of timing.



No, I'm arguing for the truth. The title of this thread is misleading. Biden isn't the President Elect just yet.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> http://Iamafactcheckertoo.com/hedidsosaythat


Please tag me if you decide to post something substantive instead.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Fact check: The Democrats did not decide to impeach Donald Trump until he committed the aforementioned offenses.



Lies, they were plotting to impeach him even before he was sworn in. How can he commit crimes as President if he wasn't even the President yet?


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> So yes Biden may or not be a criminal but Trump is no different with his constant law breaking in my country.



I don't care about Trump or Biden's personal life.  I care about the fact that it's extremely scary the US is entirely a banana republic where the CIA, media, and Google big tech monopolies all collude together, rig the vote and throw yours out, and attempt to install their puppet candidate (Biden in this case).

The puppets they're putting in are not left or right wing.  It's just standard corporate fascism where corporations are placing in puppets to loot the country and make themselves rich at your expense while making you a slave.  Corporations should not even exist.  When they were originally created in the US, their charters required them to be for the public good like making railroads, then they were to be disbanded.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Thats a shady website, and just give up, he's the president unless he dies like Lacius says,

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

They did not like him, they just waited. There is a difference to not liking someone but not taking action, and taking action because of something illegal.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


>




Fox isn't a infallible source. BIDEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT ELECT RIGHT NOW, HE'S ONLY "PROJECTED" TO BE. There's still recounts and lawsuits that have to be settled and the electoral college needs to cast their votes.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> No, I'm arguing for the truth. The title of this thread is misleading. Biden isn't the President Elect just yet.


And, as I said, he is the presumptive president-elect, not the president-elect. That you are correct about. However, the election is over. Biden will win 270+ electoral votes when the Electoral College meets, and he will become the president-elect. You're arguing a semantic technicality, not anything substantive.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FredrickConnor said:


> Lies, they were plotting to impeach him even before he was sworn in. How can he commit crimes as President if he wasn't even the President yet?


You do know he was impeached for things he did in office, right?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Wow, how obvious? of course he's not, we have to wait until jan you idiot.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> What about? WHAT ABOUT!!!! W H A T A B O U T. Hahaha. I was referring to the last 4 years and the next 4 years. I'm not accepting Biden as the President and support the impeachment process to be started right now. That's even if he wins as he's "only projected to win" at this point in time.



No need to explain to me what you were referring to. It was loud and clear.

Let's get the 2nd part straight. When your own side continually said "But but but Obama!!!" "But but but Hillary!!!!" for 4 years straight, it's all fine and well. But if someone calls out the hypocrisy of your "they spent 4 years denying Trump was the President" comment... now you want to cry "What about? WHAT ABOUT!!!! W H A T A B O U T". I was just taking one from the deplorable playbook. How do you like your own play being used on you and then losing?

The 3rd point. Keep dreaming about that "only projected to win" bit. But please do tell us all what grounds there are for impeachment that you support. Please tell us all about what this immediate impeachment process of Biden involves. Because I haven't seen any networks comment on it. Not even Fox News. Not even Trump himself has stated a single thing about the impeachment of Biden.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Fox isn't a infallible source. BIDEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT ELECT RIGHT NOW, HE'S ONLY "PROJECTED" TO BE. There's still recounts and lawsuits that have to be settled and the electoral college needs to cast their votes.


The present lawsuits and recounts will not and cannot change the electoral college math. Biden is the apparent winner.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> And, as I said, he is the presumptive president-elect, not the president-elect. That you are correct about. However, the election is over. Biden will win 270+ electoral votes when the Electoral College meets, and he will become the president-elect. You're arguing a semantic technicality, not anything substantive.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



I know he was impeached for his supposed behavior as president, but your side was discussing on impeachment before he was even the President as your side was planning to impeach him solely because your side lost. So fuck your side. We should impeach Biden right away.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Please tag me if you decide to post something substantive instead.


Please tag me when you realize society shouldn't be based on buggery and whining about slavery.  An institution that existed in the entirety of all human history, the only difference was America stopped it.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The present lawsuits and recounts will not and cannot change the electoral college math. Biden is the apparent winner.



It'll be hysterical if the lawsuits prove wide spread fraud and the votes end up being wrong. if there's no fraud, good, then Biden wins if there was then he loses, but right now he's only projected to win. He hasn't won just yet.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I know he was impeached for his supposed behavior as president, but your side was discussing on impeachment before he was even the President as your side was planning to impeach him solely because your side lost. So fuck your side. We should impeach Biden right away.


What did they want to impeach Trump for, and what would they impeach Biden for? Put up or shut up.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FredrickConnor said:


> It'll be hysterical if the lawsuits prove wide spread fraud and the votes end up being wrong.


There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

The electoral college is the only thing standing. And most likely he's gonna win. Since well, either all of us die or biden wins, i take having a president who isn't amazing, but is way better then trump could ever be.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Please tag me when you realize society shouldn't be based on buggery and whining about slavery.  An institution that existed in the entirety of all human history, the only difference was America stopped it.


What are you blathering on about?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

There is no proof, and there will be no proof, if there is proof, the government will just cover it up. (Hahan the government does something good) so yeah...


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> The electoral college is the only thing standing. And most likely he's gonna win. Since well, either all of us die or biden wins, i take having a president who isn't amazing, but is way better then trump could ever be.


Based on what?  Biden has been in the Government for 50 years and authored half the things lefties complain about.


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Fox isn't a infallible source. BIDEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT ELECT RIGHT NOW, HE'S ONLY "PROJECTED" TO BE. There's still recounts and lawsuits that have to be settled and the electoral college needs to cast their votes.


You said only leftist media projected Biden to be the winner which is untrue as Fox News projected Biden to be the winner also.
Fox news which leans right also projected Biden to be the winner.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> What did they want to impeach Trump for, and what would they impeach Biden for? Put up or shut up.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



The plan was before Trump became President to impeach him regardless of any guilt for the first reason that your side could come up with. You first tried to Russian Collusion Hoax and then various others until finally you found one that you though would work, but he ended up being acquitted from the charges. Since your side was discussing impeachment before Trump took office it's not fine if my sides starts planning on how to impeach Biden right now and just like your side we don't actually need him to be guilty of anything. I refuse to accept the results of 2020 election and that should be fine because the Liberals refused for the last 4 years. If you think your slime ball leader can get me to join your side you're fucking delusional. Liberals are trash and I'm not going to go out peacefully.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



CompassNorth said:


> You said only leftist media projected Biden to be the winner which is untrue as Fox News projected Biden to be the winner also.
> Fox news which leans right also projected Biden to be the winner.



Oh, semantics, right? it doesn't matter that Biden isn't actually the President elect either.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Eh, the things that lefties complain about, I'm a demo, but serious i hate all of the complaining with the demos about stupid things like BLM. Basically, im a demo with a couple republic thoughts though.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Eh, the things that lefties complain about, I'm a demo, but serious i hate all of the complaining with the demos about stupid things like BLM. Basically, im a demo with a couple republic thoughts though.




yea, I don't know when THE BLACKS started to think they people??..Next thing we know those MEXI-CAN are going to want to go to school!!


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea, I don't know when THE BLACKS started to think they people??..Next thing we know those MEXI-CAN are going to want to go to school!!



That's a pretty racist thing to say, but the Democrats are the party that created the KKK. Biden is not my President and he never will be. We need to impeach him right away.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Im saying that fighting for BLM is good. All lives matter. But doing costant violence is not. What the fuck, why are you burning buildings. That does nothing.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> The plan was before Trump became President to impeach him regardless of any guilt for the first reason that your side could come up with. You first tried to Russian Collusion Hoax and then various others until finally you found one that you though would work, but he ended up being acquitted from the charges. Since your side was discussing impeachment before Trump took office it's not fine if my sides starts planning on how to impeach Biden right now and just like your side we don't actually need him to be guilty of anything. I refuse to accept the results of 2020 election and that should be fine because the Liberals refused for the last 4 years. If you think your slime ball leader can get me to join your side you're fucking delusional. Liberals are trash and I'm not going to go out peacefully.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


The Democrats weren't planning on impeaching Trump for Russian collusion until evidence of the aforementioned collusion was released. It was not, so they did not. It's not rocket science. You also didn't articulate any reason to impeach Biden. As I said before, impeachment isn't some blunt tool used to bludgeon presidents you merely disagree with politically.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Nah man, the only way biden is out of office is he dies. Which sadly and morbidly could happen.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

sorry ""wink wink" .. I mean all lives matter. .. Sorry guys, I forget when we are outside its we say "ALL lives"


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> We are either going into civil war or the dominion voting system + hammer and scorecard vote rigging algorithm results will be tossed and the people who pushed it going to jail.  It's 100% impossible to suppress this information and massive voter fraud that occurred.
> 
> They didn't need a few thousand votes rigged in swing states.  They need literally 100,000+.  It's not possible to cover up that level of fraud.  People on the left shouldn't be trying to cover this up.  More like you should be afraid that you live in a complete banana republic where the CIA, media, and Google tech monopolies all collude in an authoritarian/fascist manner, throw out the votes, and just  give you a puppet candidate.



Trumps cases are getting thrown out and zero evidence is showing up. The only evidence you have is Trumps mouth. I guess this needs to be said again for the umpteenth time, if the Dems were so easily able to rig an election, they would have done so in 2016 and Trump never would have won.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The Democrats weren't planning on impeaching Trump for Russian collusion until evidence of the aforementioned collusion was released. It was not, so they did not. It's not rocket science. You also didn't articulate any reason to impeach Biden. As I said before, impeachment isn't some blunt tool used to bludgeon presidents you merely disagree with politically.



Bullshit. The plan was to impeach Trump regardless of guilt and that plan started before he took office. You're blocked now. I don't need to talk with Liberals.


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Oh, semantics, right? it doesn't matter that Biden isn't actually the President elect either.


You're moving your goal post again.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> You're moving your goal post again.



No I'm not. I'm simply emulating what your side has done for the last 4 years. You don't like it, do you? Tough shit because now I'm gonna spend 4 years doing exactly what you fucks did to us.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Alright have it your way. I was interested to see why trump supporters voted for trump in the first place.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Bullshit. The plan was to impeach Trump regardless of guilt and that plan started before he took office. You're blocked now. I don't need to talk with Liberals.


Claims made absent or contrary to evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I'm sorry you can't take the heat of having your feet held to the fire.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Oof. Welp anyways Lacius what do thing about about the gun restrictions? Its very stupid to me, but for you?


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Alright have it your way. I was interested to see why trump supporters voted for trump in the first place.



I voted for him because I don't believe in open borders, defunding the police, legalizing deadly drugs, free health care for anyone that steps foot in the USA (remember no borders) or "free whatever" because none of it's free. Biden also promised to raise taxes as that was one of his campaign promises and once they are raised on the people that provide goods and services those goods and services prices are going to increase.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> No I'm not. I'm simply emulating what your side has done for the last 4 years. You don't like it, do you? Tough shit because now I'm gonna spend 4 years doing exactly what you fucks did to us.


YAY you tell them, I don't accept Biden infact, I have not acknowledged any President since 
*Millard Fillmore ... THE Whig Party Will rise **again!!*


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 8, 2020)

I can't wait for you rightist f to rebel you do know treason could lead to the death penalty be my guest if you clowns want to die so badly after all you'll be going up against the military good luck (you'll need it)


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> I can't wait for you rightist f to rebel you do know treason could lead to the death penalty be my guest if you clowns want to die so badly after all you'll be going up against the military good luck (you'll need it)



I'm not going to rebel, I'll simply burn, loot and murder like your side did. Isn't that peaceful protesting? /s


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Oof. Welp anyways Lacius what do thing about about the gun restrictions? Its very stupid to me, but for you?


Please be very specific.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I voted for him because I don't believe in open borders, defunding the police, legalizing deadly drugs, free health care for anyone that steps foot in the USA (remember no borders) or "free whatever" because none of it's free. Biden also promised to raise taxes as that was one of his campaign promises and once they are raised on the people that provide goods and services those goods and services prices are going to increase.



1. Thats true, but at least open a program for people. (and also don't separate children that's just no good)
2. Anyone who wants to defund the police is very stupid in my eyes.
3. Weed isn't dangerous.
4. Everyone deserves free health care (Ok maybe not terroists but still)
5. No one likes taxes.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> 1. Thats true, but at least open a program for people.
> 2. Anyone who wants to defund the police is very stupid in my eyes.
> 3. Weed isn't dangerous.
> 4. Everyone deserves free health care (Ok maybe not terroists but still)
> 5. No one likes taxes.



I said "deadly drugs". You see Denver started by legalizing weed, then mushrooms and have now decriminalized meth and cocaine. They say "weed" isn't a gateway drug. Hah!


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not going to rebel, I'll simply burn, loot and murder like your side did. Isn't that peaceful protesting? /s



YES, we need to go to the street and carry ridiculously Big guns to intimidate, those Rapist and Murders, sorry I mean Minorities, so they know their place and will get to afraid to vote for another 150 years, they been getting to bold!  Let show them Fredrick and DUCK!!


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> ver started by legalizing weed, then mushrooms and have now decriminalized meth and cocaine. They say "weed" isn't a gateway drug. Hah!


Eh, there dangerous, and people still say don't do them, but there treating coke and meth as mental illness, not illegal stuff. Which works? I guess.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I know he was impeached for his supposed behavior as president, but your side was discussing on impeachment before he was even the President as your side was planning to impeach him solely because your side lost. So fuck your side. We should impeach Biden right away.



You mean how like when Moscow Mitch stated from the get go "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president" and to take every means necessary to try to block every, single, thing Obama tried to do? How many more times can I use the word hypocrite today? And do you know WHY impeachment talks were brought up before he was even elected? No? I figured as much. Meanwhile, there's still no impeachable offenses for Joe. But keep trying, lol. You'll just run out of breath much sooner than later with all of that.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Eh, there dangerous, and people still say don't do them, but there treating coke and meth as mental illness, not illegal stuff. Which works? I guess.



Meth and cocaine cause mental illnesses, organ failure and death. It's going to be interesting to see how many homeless tweakers Denver ends up with on its streets.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



D34DL1N3R said:


> You mean how like when Moscow Mitch stated from the get go "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president" and to take every means necessary to try to block every, single, thing Obama tried to do? How many more times can I use the word hypocrite today? And do you know WHY impeachment talks were brought up before he was even elected? No? I figured as much. Meanwhile, there's still no impeachable offenses for Joe. But keep trying, lol. You'll just run out of breath much sooner than later with all of that.



Liberal lies, you're blocked now too.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Nov 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You are so completely full of shit. You know full well you read my last reply. Once again, you'd trying to back-peddle in a pathetic attempt to not look as incredibly ignorant and hypocritical as you have been. You were called out on every ounce of your hypocrisy, and now it's "But but but!!! But but but!!!! I didn't mean to offend!!" Bullshit. Your every intention was to offend. Period. I've already stated this, but playing the innocent now is too late.



I actually didn't.

Haven't lied at all - I dislike americans like YOU. The other guy, forgotwhoiam seems a nice guy.

You on the other hand, are rude, ignorant and vile in thought, verbiage and being. (also this whole thing you're doing where you're creating a picture of me going back on what I said but now it being "too late" is so contrived).

I mean, why would I go back on what I said? Out of fear of what? Who do you even think you are that you'll be of any consequence to me? You started addressing me first. I didn't even know you existed and even now that I know you do, I can only imagine what a wretched waste it is.

At best cowards like you yell and scream and swear and then report posts to mods acting like victims. Which is even more pathetic and cowardly but I already expect that of you. Other than that, tell me, what consequence or power do you have?

Tell you what, if you had been nice like forgotwhoiam, I would have seriously had a dialogue with you and even if we disagreed I would have walked away thinking good of you. THAT is how to behave. As soon as you started calling me "asshole" and swearing, I felt inclined to give you a dressing down. It is clear I did, because you're seething with anger. I had that power over you. Only because of how you behaved first.

I still didn't mean to offend anyone. My opinion is just an opinion. We don't have to agree but we must also not resort to personal attacks. Learn something, improve your life, there is a world beyond your country which, quite frankly is a rotting mess.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Eh, if they die, that's on them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MadonnaProject said:


> I actually didn't.
> 
> Haven't lied at all - I dislike americans like YOU. The other guy, seems a nice chap.
> 
> ...




This is politics, what ya expect?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 8, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> I can't wait for you rightist f to rebel you do know treason could lead to the death penalty be my guest if you clowns want to die so badly after all you'll be going up against the military good luck (you'll need it)



Glad were on the same page about treason, and we wont be going up against the military.  The separation of the United States is going to look a lot more like Brexit or Corsica/Spain, unless massive unreset causes a domino effect like the USSR.  Texas will probably go back to being it's own country and some type of Union will form in the North West with parts of Norcal, Idaho, Eastern Oregon, and Montana and the Dakota's going back to indigenous populations further pressing their sovereignty,    You really need to get off the pipe dreams your going to have the military killing your political opponents, the dissolution of the U.S. is a good thing.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Politics is a mess no matter the situations.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Eh, if they die, that's on them.



Lots will die as meth and cocaine addictions are deadly.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

EH, that's porbarly not gonna happen. We can't rebel against the U.S, we will just die. So, good luck. as for the demos who are doing it outside, yeah same for them.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Glad were on the same page about treason, and we wont be going up against the military.  The separation of the United States is going to look a lot more like Brexit or Corsica/Spai, unless massive unreset causes a domino effect like the USSR.  Texas will probably go back to being it's own country and some type of Union will form in the North West with parts of Norcal, Idaho, Eastern Oregon, and Montana and the Dakota's going back to indigenous populations further pressing their sovereignty,    You really need to get off the pipe dreams your going to have the military killing your political opponents, the dissolution of the U.S. is a good thing.



thats the spirit lets "handmaid's Tale" A Gilead-state will Great ..
Under his eye!


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> The facts are Joe Biden is only projected to be the winner by the leftist media.





FredrickConnor said:


> Fox isn't a infallible source. BIDEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT ELECT RIGHT NOW, HE'S ONLY "PROJECTED" TO BE.





FredrickConnor said:


> No I'm not.


This is the definition of moving goal posts. Just wanted to point out right wing media has declared Biden the *projected *winner.



FredrickConnor said:


> You don't like it, do you? Tough shit because now I'm gonna spend 4 years doing exactly what you fucks did to us.


I mean I don't really care what you do nor does it affect me. We're talking about politics in a forum that used to host pirated copies of video games. I'm not really expecting a some sort of high standard for political discussion here.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Pirated is giving the website too much credit. They don't have that big of balls to host pirated content.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Pirated is giving the website too much credit. They don't have that big of balls to host pirated content.


The site actually started life as a pirate website of gba games then changed into what we have now a while later.

https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/GBAtemp.net?useskin=tempstyle2#History


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


>




Faux News is leftist media too except for 1-2 shows being an exception.  We have controlled media which is not good for democracy no matter what side you're on.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Oof. Looks like nintendo really started to crackdown. Im just looking for a excuse to not talk about politics, and to get my message count high. Just go to a political thread it works well.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 8, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> This is the definition of moving goal posts. Just wanted to point out right wing media has declared Biden the *projected *winner.
> 
> 
> I mean I don't really care what you do nor does it affect me. We're talking about politics in a forum that used to host pirated copies of video games. I'm not really expecting a some sort of high standard for political discussion here.



Projected means he's probably going to be the winner, but he hasn't won just quite yet. We'll have to see what the lawsuits turn up.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

You mean the college. the lawsuits do nothing.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Faux News is leftist media too except for 1-2 shows being an exception.  We have controlled media which is not good for democracy no matter what side you're on.


 Right on Brother!!
I only get my News from Facebook, who everyone knows is the only place speaking the true.... CROP CIRCLES and fluoride in our drinking water


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 8, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Right on Brother!!
> I only get my News from Facebook, who everyone knows is the only place speaking the true.... CROP CIRCLES and fluoride in our drinking water



Facebook that censors what people say along with twitter and google? Yeah uh no. They're creating a 1984 scenario where you can get in trouble for thoughts.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Oof, at least its facebook, we would have to destroy you if you used twitter.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Oof, at least its facebook, we would have to destroy you if you used twitter.


Only brain dead idiots use twitter. What was Trumps favourite social media again?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Projected means he's probably going to be the winner, but he hasn't won just quite yet. We'll have to see what the lawsuits turn up.


The lawsuits won't go anywhere. Biden is going to be the next president of the United States.

I truly understand your disappointment, but it is what it is.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I voted for him because I don't believe in open borders, defunding the police, legalizing deadly drugs, free health care for anyone that steps foot in the USA (remember no borders) or "free whatever" because none of it's free. Biden also promised to raise taxes as that was one of his campaign promises and once they are raised on the people that provide goods and services those goods and services prices are going to increase.



Care to show me where a single Democrat who was running in this election said the want open borders? That's a lie told you to by your Orange Jesus. Legalizing deadly drugs? To begin with, just imagine big tobacco without GOP support. Lmao. Have anything better? Free health care to anyone that steps foot in the USA? Care to provide proof of that?



FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not going to rebel, I'll simply burn, loot and murder like your side did. Isn't that peaceful protesting? /s



Do I need to point you in the direction of the times your side has done these things? Hypocrite.



MadonnaProject said:


> I actually didn't.
> 
> Haven't lied at all - I dislike americans like YOU. The other guy, forgotwhoiam seems a nice guy.
> 
> ...



More complete lies. But if it makes you feel better about yourself.

"I didn't mean to attack anyone!!!"
"Let's not resort to personal attacks!!!"
"THAT is how to behave!!!"

Says the guy who in the VERY same comment also said:

"I dislike americans like YOU"
"You on the other hand, are rude, ignorant and vile in thought, verbiage and being."
"I didn't even know you existed and even now that I know you do, I can only imagine what a wretched waste it is."
"cowards like you"
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

You should probably just refrain from making yourself look more incredibly stupid than you already have.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Only brain dead idiots use twitter. What was Trumps favourite social media again?


Yeah, that is true.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Facebook that censors what people say along with twitter and google? Yeah uh no. They're creating a 1984 scenario where you can get in trouble for thoughts.


oh shoot really,  good thing most of my Community started reading the Onion!


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

At at least we got a troll to make us laugh.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> At at least we got a troll to make us laugh.


yea,  *D34DL1N3R  is such a troll, talking about equal rights, and getting news from reputable sources instead of my uncle bob!
*


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 8, 2020)

Haha i actually laughed at that, keep it coming


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

look it does matter what side you are on there two things we all agree on .. COMMUNIST are bad.... oh well  unless its PUTIN and Socialism is going to DESTROY THE US.. oh well unless its Social Security, Medicare, the post office, Police, libraries, schools, highways and basically anything that our taxes pay for..that type of socialism is ok. BUT DO NOT DARE TO Make MEDICAL SERVICES the same way but we Americans loves to be gouged by the medical companies


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 8, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> At at least we got a troll to make us laugh.



I hear ya!!! Those pro-Trumpers and anti-Americans in what was supposed to be a pro-Biden topic are really the most amusing trolls of all trolls. They make me laugh too. And a few other things, like rolling my eyes and vomiting.


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 8, 2020)

This has been a fun topic so far. I am amused.
Keep the posts coming people!


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

.. I don't know what happen.. I guess my fellow QANON sectarians left me alone, I guess I will retreat also..... and Dont you forget .. the South will rise again!! PEW PEW PEW( in a Yosemite Sam voice )


----------



## omgcat (Nov 8, 2020)

having someone who will actually fill government positions that have been empty for 4 years is gonna be nice. there's talk of using the education act so the executive branch can unilaterally forgive federal student loans (or up to $50k). a supplement to this would be the government offering Refi to private loans and 1/2 interest rate, so the government recoups losses, but frees capital to be spent in the economy.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 8, 2020)

Dodain47 said:


> Hooray to Joe Biden!
> Kamela Harris has good chances to become the first female president of the USA!


Except their already was a female president, at least unofficially. Although it is stated that she self-proclaimed a role of presidential "steward".



djpannda said:


> look it does matter what side you are on there two things we all agree on .. COMMUNIST are bad.... oh well  unless its PUTIN and Socialism is going to DESTROY THE US.. oh well unless its Social Security, Medicare, the post office, Police, libraries, schools, highways and basically anything that our taxes pay for..that type of socialism is ok. BUT DO NOT DARE TO Make MEDICAL SERVICES the same way but we Americans loves to be gouged by the medical companies


I would like to point out that medicare is not free, people that are on it usually have to pay the premium that comes with it, unless they fit the guidelines of the state of residence, then the states pays for it.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 8, 2020)

They would not be talking about semantics, if the thread said Trump instead.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 8, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> Except their already was a female president, at least unofficially. Although it is stated that she self-proclaimed a role of presidential "steward".
> 
> 
> I would like to point out that medicare is not free, people that are on it usually have to pay the premium that comes with it, unless they fit the guidelines of the state of residence, then the states pays for it.


correct but it still a socialist program ( as most of the cost comes from tax deductions) and  the US has being use for bout 80 years


----------



## smf (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> that type of socialism is ok. BUT DO NOT DARE TO Make MEDICAL SERVICES the same way but we Americans loves to be gouged by the medical companies



Yeah, the people have been manipulated to believe that universal health care is bad because it would mean lower costs and therefore less money for big pharma. Trump wanted drug companies to have huge profits & doesn't care about poor people (because if poor people get sick and die then that problem is "solved").

What you should always do is pick the right choices, no matter where they came from.

If someone thinks it's a better choice to pay more just so it guarantees that you aren't paying towards someone else's healthcare, then they ought to rethink why they believe that.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

omgcat said:


> having someone who will actually fill government positions that have been empty for 4 years is gonna be nice. there's talk of using the education act so the executive branch can unilaterally forgive federal student loans (or up to $50k). a supplement to this would be the government offering Refi to private loans and 1/2 interest rate, so the government recoups losses, but frees capital to be spent in the economy.


  I give you my honest word and you can save this, the day Democrats forgive student loans across the board I will post my ballot every october and let you fill it out.  Someone has to pay that 400K a year Elizabeth Warren was making to teach one class.  If you think there is a student loan issue you should pull up the salary payouts at your local community college, there public record.  Most of those Department heads are making 200K+ a year + graft on the text books.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

smf said:


> Yeah, the people have been manipulated to believe that universal health care is bad because it would mean lower costs and therefore less money for big pharma. Trump wanted drug companies to have huge profits & doesn't care about the people.
> 
> What you should always do is pick the right choices, no matter where they came from.
> 
> If someone thinks it's a better choice to pay more just so it guarantees that you aren't paying towards someone else's healthcare, then they ought to rethink why they believe that.




Universal Healthcare is just a bad idea look at the horrible Medical situation with people dieing in the street  in ...Canada.... I mean England.... I mean Finland.. . i Mean Australia.. I mean most of the Western world... its soo bad! Blue Cross for life!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

smf said:


> Yeah, the people have been manipulated to believe that universal health care is bad because it would mean lower costs and therefore less money for big pharma. Trump wanted drug companies to have huge profits & doesn't care about poor people (because if poor people get sick and die then that problem is "solved").
> 
> What you should always do is pick the right choices, no matter where they came from.
> 
> If someone thinks it's a better choice to pay more just so it guarantees that you aren't paying towards someone else's healthcare, then they ought to rethink why they believe that.




I happen to support socialized healthcare despite being a right wing extremist, Obama-care was simply a mandate you buy the shitty private healthcare under threat of fine.  Trump was forcing pharmaceutical companies to give the U.S. the same rates the rest of the world gets.  You are literally just talking out of your ass.  Fines on citizens should never be a component of a healthcare system, Candidate Obama ran against healthcare mandates.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Universal Healthcare is just a bad idea look at the horrible Medical situation with people dieing in the street  in ...Canada.... I mean England.... I mean Finland.. . i Mean Australia.. I mean most of the Western world... its soo bad! Blue Cross for life!!


The NHS here in Britain is ranked as one of if not the best health care systems anywhere in the world even though it has terrible founding I don't know where you are getting this bullshit about people dying in the streets from.

One of many articles talking about the NHS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-40608253


----------



## smf (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Trump was forcing pharmaceutical companies to give the U.S. the same rates the rest of the world gets.



Recent trade talks have all been centered around making the rest of the world pay as much as US does, not the other way round.

The rest of the world pays less because of nationalised health services having huge buying power.

You can't get cheaper health care unless you have collective bargaining.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



AmandaRose said:


> The NHS here in Britain is ranked as one of if not the best health care systems anywhere in the world even though it has terrible founding I don't know where you are getting this bullshit about people dying in the streets from.



It depends on how you rate it, I wouldn't say it was the best. If you can afford really expensive health care in the US then sure it's great, a lot of people can't afford it & it's rather barbaric to just work them to death and move onto employing the next poor people on wages that means they can't afford decent health care.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Universal Healthcare is just a bad idea look at the horrible Medical situation with people dieing in the street  in ...Canada.... I mean England.... I mean Finland.. . i Mean Australia.. I mean most of the Western world... its soo bad! Blue Cross for life!!


SHH what's wrong with you, you should know we do not mention that most of the western world already use Universal Healthcare for over 100years and it works... what are we going to do if people realize that basic healthcare does not need to cost anything. !!


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 9, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Another post from an ignorant child leftist.  The US is NOT a direct democracy because that's just mob rule where if you can get 6 out of 10 people to vote to steal from or kill the other 4 then it happens.
> 
> The US is also NOT a federal supremacy system and was created upon the idea of state's rights.  One state is not allowed to tell the other 49 what to do.  If you get one trillion people to reproduce out of control in New York, they don't get to use their excess population to plunder from the other 49 or act as fascist authoritarians over the other states either.
> 
> ...


The fact that all of this that came from something you pulled out of your ass gives you an A for effort but due to the fact that I’m neither leftist or gay means I’ll have to give you an F for jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

smf said:


> Recent trade talks have all been centered around making the rest of the world pay as much as US does, not the other way round.
> 
> The rest of the world pays less because of nationalised health services having huge buying power.
> 
> ...


There is just no reason for countries not to have free health care. Here in Scotland unlike the rest of Britain we have 100% free health care for everything (excluding unnecessary cosmetic surgery) and all medicine is free. We don't pay higher taxes than the rest of Britain or Europe. Waiting time for operations and the quality of service we get ect are the same as the rest of Britain. I don't get why the rest of Britain and indeed the rest of the world can't do the same.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

smf said:


> Recent trade talks have all been centered around making the rest of the world pay as much as US does, not the other way round.
> 
> The rest of the world pays less because of nationalised health services having huge buying power.
> 
> You can't get cheaper health care unless you have collective bargaining.



Entirely slanderous hyperbolic opinion, Trump was very aggressive with EO's trying to lower drug costs, take the manufacturing out of china, repealing Obama's healthcare fines. If Trump wanted to bolster pharmaceutical companies he would of kept the Democrat dictates that you buy from them.   Candidate Obama even opposed mandates because anyone with a IQ over 10 knows what happens when you force people to buy products from private institutions. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/trumps-executive-orders-on-prescription-drugs/


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Entirely slanderous hyperbolic opinion, Trump was very aggressive with EO's trying to lower drug costs, take the manufacturing out of china, repealing Obama's healthcare fines. If Trump wanted to bolster pharmaceutical companies he would of kept the Democrat dictates that you buy from them.   Candidate Obama even opposed mandates because anyone with a IQ over 10 knows what happens when you force people to buy products from private institutions. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/trumps-executive-orders-on-prescription-drugs/


Trump did not meaningfully lower drug prices, and he and the Republicans never had a healthcare plan.

https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-...rus-outbreak-d7f1d2003aeaa95466e12b875b7b4619

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/22/politics/trump-drug-prices-fact-check/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...e-trump-biden-n1241282/ncrd1241478#blogHeader


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Trump did not meaningfully lower drug prices, and he and the Republicans never had a healthcare plan.
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-...rus-outbreak-d7f1d2003aeaa95466e12b875b7b4619
> 
> ...


They’re only plan was to get rid of Obamacare


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Trump did not meaningfully lower drug prices, and he and the Republicans never had a healthcare plan.
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-...rus-outbreak-d7f1d2003aeaa95466e12b875b7b4619
> 
> ...



Neither did Obamacare, it did go around fining people though.  The liars at the ministry of fact checking even rate Trumps EO's as to soon to tell.  You can save the partisan upmanship on healthcare, the left lost after Obama spent 5 years lying to everyone institutionalizing for-profit healthcare enforced by the IRS.  Trump pledged to protect pre-existing conditions, bring back the manufacturing from China and got rid of fining poor people for not paying medical bills.  It was more than a start.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea, I don't know when THE BLACKS started to think they people??..Next thing we know those MEXI-CAN are going to want to go to school!!


They are preventing Mexicans from going to school?


----------



## Goku1992A (Nov 9, 2020)

I'm going to be very honest GA/MI/PA/WI screwed trump. I mean I wanted him to win but I didn't expect him to win he had did alot better than I thought. Trump should just accept his loss because when they count the votes again it will not change anything.

Not too happy about Biden winning however I'm not a sore loser.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> I'm going to be very honest GA/MI/PA/WI screwed trump. I mean I wanted him to win but I didn't expect him to win he had did alot better than I thought. Trump should just accept his loss because when they count the votes again it will not change anything.
> 
> Not too happy about Biden winning however I'm not a sore loser.



No they didn't, Democrats illegally changing law in violation of the constitution in PA is screwing Trump, along with voter fraud.  You can already prove mathematically Bidens vote is fraudulent, and it's not going to stand.  Benford's law is over most peoples but the math tells the truth and will lead to the fraud.  Just a matter of time.

In the United States, evidence based on Benford's law has been admitted in criminal cases at the federal, state, and local levels.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Only brain dead idiots use twitter. What was Trumps favourite social media again?


GBAtemp?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

Teslas Fate said:


> They’re only plan was to get rid of Obamacare


I'm sure you'd agree with me when I say that's not a healthcare plan.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No they didn't, Democrats illegally changing law in violation of the constitution in PA is screwing Trump, along with voter fraud.  You can already prove mathematically Bidens vote is fraudulent, and it's not going to stand.  Benford's law is over most peoples but the math tells the truth and will lead to the fraud.  Just a matter of time.
> 
> In the United States, evidence based on Benford's law has been admitted in criminal cases at the federal, state, and local levels.



Yup PA is wrong, we will not let them steal the elections. I mean who allowed all those black people to vote in record numbers in Philiy. that is insane, we have to suppress the vote to make sure they don't vote at all next time!!  JImbo notes what I talking bout


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Neither did Obamacare, it did go around fining people though.  The liars at the ministry of fact checking even rate Trumps EO's as to soon to tell.  You can save the partisan upmanship on healthcare, the left lost after Obama spent 5 years lying to everyone institutionalizing for-profit healthcare enforced by the IRS.  Trump pledged to protect pre-existing conditions, bring back the manufacturing from China and got rid of fining poor people for not paying medical bills.  It was more than a start.


Like it or not (I didn't like it, but it was a million times better than the status quo and fixed a lot of problems), Obamacare is and was a health care plan. Millions of people have affordable health care who otherwise wouldn't because of Obamacare.


----------



## Teslas Fate (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I'm sure you'd agree with me when I say that's not a healthcare plan.


You’re right it’s not


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> They are preventing Mexicans from going to school?


Right? I do not understand why all this Minorities Complain, They are lucky to be allowed to go to school in decrepit building with book that still say there's 49 states and cut most programs that to make sure  they HAVE  to work twice as hard as "normal" kids. And good thing we made higher education soo expensive that they can not afford it so they can just give up !


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Right? I do not understand why all this Minorities Complain, They are lucky to be allowed to go to school in decrepit building with book that still say there's 49 states and cut most programs that to make sure  they HAVE  to work twice as hard as "normal" kids. And good thing we made higher education soo expensive that they can not afford it so they can just give up !


So they are going to school? I'm a minority and I always went to school, even college right now. I got financial aid to help pay for school too.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> So they are going to school? I'm a minority and I always went to school, even college right now. I got financial aid to help pay for school too.


oh good ....good for you ( note to self. create a better gerrymandering map to insure that happens less)


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh good ....good for you ( note to self. create a better gerrymandering map to insure that happens less)


Your inner sacarstic monolougues are weird


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Like it or not (I didn't like it, but it was a million times better than the status quo and fixed a lot of problems), Obamacare is and was a health care plan. Millions of people have affordable health care who otherwise wouldn't because of Obamacare.



The only problem Obama care fixed was the issues with pre-existing conditions which has near universal bipartisan support, other than that it was status quo with a fine for not participating.  And your not talking to right wing partisan on healthcare, on healthcare I might as well be Karl Marx.  Socialized Universal on demand.  Obamacare was the biggest fuck you, let the industry take everything and use the IRS to help them carry the bags of money in the history of healthcare.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Biden's first move is going to be a nationwide mask mandate. This shows blatant disregard for the tenth amendment.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Biden's first move is going to be a nationwide mask mandate. This shows blatant disregard for the tenth amendment.


Yay that would be going over the line for public safety. I mean we need to make sure my right are not violated, we need to stop p mask mandate, helmets, seatbelts, and most importantly stop signs and red lights.. I mean its my God given right as an American to go 80mph in a playground!!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yay that would be going over the line for public safety. I mean we need to make sure my right are not violated, we need to stop p mask mandate, helmets, seatbelts, and most importantly stop signs and red lights.. I mean its my God given right as an American to go 80mph in a playground!!


Everything you just mentioned is mandated on a state-by-state basis.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Biden's first move is going to be a nationwide mask mandate. This shows blatant disregard for the tenth amendment.


Nah, first it will be a apology, I hate America tour.  They will line up a few professional victims from the various levels of the progressive victim pyramid  and he will publicly wash their feet or felate them. Then he will start bussing in replacement people from third world countries to get a more subservient variety in the electorate like China does in Tibet.   He will save the mask mandate a few months for when he wants to roll out the hard core authoritarianism.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The only problem Obama care fixed was the issues with pre-existing conditions which has near universal bipartisan support, other than that it was status quo with a fine for not participating.  And your not talking to right wing partisan on healthcare, on healthcare I might as well be Karl Marx.  Socialized Universal on demand.  Obamacare was the biggest fuck you, let the industry take everything and use the IRS to help them carry the bags of money in the history of healthcare.


Fact check: Obamacare does a lot more than protect pre-existing conditions. In addition, the Trump administration is in the middle of suing to remove Obamacare, including pre-existing protections. Republicans have never voted to protect people with pre-existing conditions: not before Obama, not during Obama, and not after Obama (not counting the few Republicans who voted against Obamacare repeal).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisions_of_the_Affordable_Care_Act

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Biden's first move is going to be a nationwide mask mandate. This shows blatant disregard for the tenth amendment.


Fact check: it's not going to be the first thing he does, and it wouldn't violate the tenth amendment.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Everything you just mentioned is mandated on a state-by-state basis.


 I aight with you, we have to do something about this, Grab your Gun and we going to take down all this red lights, and speed signs.  thank you for being a patriot agianst safety laws!! WOO


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I aight with you, we have to do something about this, Grab your Gun and we going to take down all this red lights, and speed signs.  thank you for being a patriot agianst safety laws!! WOO


Did you not read what I said?


Lacius said:


> it wouldn't violate the tenth amendment.


Um...yeah.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Fact check: Obamacare does a lot more than protect pre-existing conditions. In addition, the Trump administration is in the middle of suing to remove Obamacare, including pre-existing protections. Republicans have never voted to protect people with pre-existing conditions: not before Obama, not during Obama, and not after Obama (not counting the few Republicans who voted against Obamacare repeal).
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisions_of_the_Affordable_Care_Act



Nearly the entire republican caucus including Trump has pledged to retain protections for pre-existing conditions, they are voting to repeal Obama care and you are citing a procedural issue in that repeal to lie about their intent.   Saying "a lot of stuff, or more people" is not a fact check.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Did you not read what I said?
> 
> Um...yeah.


..idk something bout liberials wanting to not die for a pandemic and ILLEGal safety laws.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ..idk something bout liberials wanting to not die for a pandemic and ILLEGal safety laws.


1. If you don't want COVID, don't go outside.
2. Did you not read what I said?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Nearly the entire republican caucus including Trump has pledged to retain protections for pre-existing conditions, they are voting to repeal Obama care and you are citing a procedural issue in that repeal to lie about their intent.   Saying "a lot of stuff, or more people" is not a fact check.


You do know Trump lies all the time, yes? He promised to release his tax returns. He promised to declassify the Russia probe (before Trump's lawyers argued in court that Trump's tweets are bullshit lies that should not be taken be anything the president actually means). Watch what Trump and the Republicans do, not what they say. What they did was attempt to repeal Obamacare in its entirety, and they're doing the same thing now in the courts. And this is all without any plan to replace it. That's a fact.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1. If you don't want COVID, don't go outside.
> 2. Did you not read what I said?


I said yea....you were saying that these crazy liberals want to make sure people don't needlessly die. CRAZY RIGHT
and we need stop safety laws, This is Merica and its my God given right to be as wreckless with my life and everyone else around me !!  I'm with u SUPRA!!!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1. If you don't want COVID, don't go outside.
> 2. Did you not read what I said?


If you don't want to get hit by a speeding motorist, don't use the roads. That's not an argument against speed limits, and that's not an argument against mask mandates, etc. If you can't offer a substantive rebuttal to this any of the times I've brought this up, don't bother repeating yourself. Put up or shut up.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 9, 2020)

As if there weren't enough flat out lies and off the wall conspiracy theories already in this topic from the Trumpers... SUPRA has now joined the conversation. Smfh.

I'm out of these political threads. I've dealt with enough pure stupidity and hypocrisy from the right. It's like trying to prove facts to brick fucking walls. Trump could rape a baby in front of them, then tell them it never happened and it was all a Democrat hoax, and they'd believe him even if they were standing right there when he did it & someone took a video of the incident for additional proof. I hope he jumps off a bridge soon so you can all follow. I'm out. See some of you in other non-political topics.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Commie betas thinking they can mandate me to wear a face diaper are more dangerous than covid, I find being maskless and coughing keeps people out of my bubble which is far more effective than a piece of cloth with some dumb bumper sticker sewn on it.                               


Lacius said:


> You do know Trump lies all the time, yes? He promised to release his tax returns. He promised to declassify the Russia probe (before Trump's lawyers argued in court that Trump's tweets are bullshit lies that should not be taken be anything the president actually means). Watch what Trump and the Republicans do, not what they say. What they did was attempt to repeal Obamacare in its entirety, and they're doing the same thing now in the courts. That's a fact.



Fact check: I am not interested in your partisan slandering rambling, none of those things have anything to do with the pledge t o protect pre-existing conditions which has nearly universal support including from Trump.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1. If you don't want COVID, don't go outside.
> 2. Did you not read what I said?


To be fair at some point everyone is going to have to go outside.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Commie betas thinking they can mandate me to wear a face diaper are more dangerous than covid, I find being maskless and coughing keeps people out of my bubble which is far more effective than a piece of cloth with some dumb bumper sticker sewn on it.
> 
> 
> Fact check: I am not interested in your partisan slandering rambling, none of those things have anything to do with the pledge t o protect pre-existing conditions which has nearly universal support including from Trump.


The bill Republicans intended to pass and Trump intended to sign into law removed pre-existing conditions. The lawsuit the Trump administration is fighting for seeks to remove pre-existing conditions. Get over it.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I said yea....you were saying that these crazy liberals want to make sure people don't needlessly die. CRAZY RIGHT
> and we need stop safety laws, This is Merica and its my God given right to be as wreckless with my life and everyone else around me !!  I'm with u SUPRA!!!


Are you ever going to read what I said? Here it is again.


UltraSUPRA said:


> Everything you just mentioned is mandated on a state-by-state basis.






Lacius said:


> If you don't want to get hit by a speeding motorist, don't use the roads. That's not an argument against speed limits, and that's not an argument against mask mandates, etc. If you can't offer a substantive rebuttal to this any of the times I've brought this up, don't bother repeating yourself. Put up or shut up.


1. Controlling your speed on the road is an instinct. Masks are not.
2. Speed limits protect you more than strangers. Masks protect strangers far, _far_ more than you.
3. You notice the damage caused by speeding. Not by refusing masks.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No they didn't, Democrats illegally changing law in violation of the constitution in PA is screwing Trump, along with voter fraud.  You can already prove mathematically Bidens vote is fraudulent, and it's not going to stand.  Benford's law is over most peoples but the math tells the truth and will lead to the fraud.  Just a matter of time.
> 
> In the United States, evidence based on Benford's law has been admitted in criminal cases at the federal, state, and local levels.



link to the raw data?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The bill Republicans intended to pass and Trump intended to sign into law removed pre-existing conditions. The lawsuit the Trump administration is fighting seeks to remove pre-existing conditions. Get over it.



Your so partisan you rather defend a shit sandwich like Obamacare than have good healthcare, there is no desire on the right to remove existing conditions. There is a desire to remove healthcare by IRS fine, AKA Obamacare.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Biden's first move is going to be a nationwide mask mandate. This shows blatant disregard for the tenth amendment.



"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." yes, but powers ruled on by the supreme court in past cases are usable by the feds. it's a concept called precedence.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Commie betas thinking they can mandate me to wear a face diaper are more dangerous than covid, I find being maskless and coughing keeps people out of my bubble which is far more effective than a piece of cloth with some dumb bumper sticker sewn on it.
> 
> 
> Fact check: I am not interested in your partisan slandering rambling, none of those things have anything to do with the pledge t o protect pre-existing conditions which has nearly universal support including from Trump.




you tell him Jimbo!!! Who the hell are these liberal think they are .. They have no right to think about other people safety.
American is doing great an we don't need any help !! Next thing we know they going to try to stop the Opioid crisis that destroying lives and families!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

omgcat said:


> link to the raw data?



I'll do you the courtesy of linking the data and the debate on such data instead of the partisan source since it is still being hammered out.  https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/...den-in-the-2020-election-violate-benfords-law


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Are you ever going to read what I said? Here it is again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Considering the number of people who speed and the number of people who don't wear masks, no, neither is instinct. The closest thing to instinct is wanting to protect one's life and the lives of others, but as you've already admitted, you don't care about preserving the lives of strangers, so maybe I'm wrong.
Speed limits protect you and protect others. Masks protect you and protect others. Also, whether or not masks protect you is irrelevant to my analogy. Please try again.
More people are dying from COVID-19 than car accidents. The data is clear that many if not most of these deaths were preventable, and the #1 most effective thing that can be done is mask-wearing.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Your so partisan you rather defend a shit sandwich like Obamacare than have good healthcare, there is no desire on the right to remove existing conditions. There is a desire to remove healthcare by IRS fine, AKA Obamacare.


No, I'd rather have Medicare for All than Obamacare. There's a lot about Obamacare that's shitty. Don't misrepresent my position. I'm merely correcting your misinformation, and now you're deflecting after I held your feet to the fire.

The bill would have removed pre-existing conditions protections, as would the present lawsuit. It is what it is. I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient for you.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Are you ever going to read what I said? Here it is again.
> 
> 1. Controlling your speed on the road is an instinct. Masks are not.
> 2. Speed limits protect you more than strangers. Masks protect strangers far, _far_ more than you.
> 3. You notice the damage caused by speeding. Not by refusing masks.



He's a troll, but have you see the lack of social distancing at these Biden celebrations? These people are packed together as tight as sardines yet somehow outdoor events with over a certain amount of people other then the Biden celebrations are outlawed. It's like they changed their stance on the virus and said fuck the rules yet then somehow expect everyone else to follow them. Yeah right. Biden isn't my President and he can shove his mask mandate up his ass.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I'll do you the courtesy of linking the data and the debate on such data instead of the partisan source since it is still being hammered out.  https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/...den-in-the-2020-election-violate-benfords-law



so, as per the usual with stackoverflow, the answer is in the comments. 
*

@henry It's so blatant it makes me wonder why the person didn't just lie and invent the numbers. It takes 5 seconds to glance at the Y-axis as opposed to taking an hour to identify a source and curate the numbers yourself. – Shmuel Newmark 18 hours ago*

you'll notice that the Y-axis is not scaled the same between the two charts.

put them both on the same scaled Y-axis and the charts look like this:







instead of:






and 

this:






cardinal sins commuted were inconsistent tick sizes, and not zero + zero scales presented, all of the charts should have stared at the same number on the Y-axis.


PLEASE TAKE A STATS COURSE!


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Are you ever going to read what I said? Here it is again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your soo right speed limit are instinct, I mean every time I watch fast and furious, Im instinct is telling me to hit the metal to the petal!!! WOO
and yea I mean I never caused any Damage when I had Corna... I mean I went every where without a mask. I visited my family and friends everyday..notthing happen .. but its a-little weird that a week after that my grandparents died..and my uncle was in a respirator for a week. but I'm sure thats unrelated


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> He's a troll, but have you see the lack of social distancing at these Biden celebrations? These people are packed together as tight as sardines yet somehow outdoor events with over a certain amount of people other then the Biden celebrations are outlawed. It's like they changed their stance on the virus and said fuck the rules yet then somehow expect everyone else to follow them. Yeah right. Biden isn't my President and he can shove his mask mandate up his ass.


Nobody has changed their position on the virus. It's getting worse, not better. Yes, there are videos and photos I've seen where people should be farther apart, but some of these are cases of people who are friends/family who might not need to social distance if they live together, many people are still social distancing, and they're wearing masks. We can talk later if there's evidence of these events leading to "superspreading," but that's not the case yet. For superspreading events, you need to look at Trump's rallies that lack social distancing and largely lack masks. These rallies have demonstrably left COVID-19 upticks in their wakes.

Edit: Also, Biden and Harris have done everything correctly with regard to social distancing and mask wearing at their events.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> He's a troll, but have you see the lack of social distancing at these Biden celebrations? These people are packed together as tight as sardines yet somehow outdoor events with over a certain amount of people other then the Biden celebrations are outlawed. It's like they changed their stance on the virus and said fuck the rules yet then somehow expect everyone else to follow them. Yeah right. Biden isn't my President and he can shove his mask mandate up his ass.



HEY don't call Jimbo13 a troll, HE is a patriot fight for the right of "real" Americans !!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Considering the number of people who speed and the number of people who don't wear masks, no, neither is instinct. The closest thing to instinct is wanting to protect one's life and the lives of others, but as you've already admitted, you don't care about preserving the lives of strangers, so maybe I'm wrong.


As long as I'm not actively, without a doubt, endangering others' lives, they're not my responsibility.


Lacius said:


> Speed limits protect you and protect others. Masks protect you and protect others. Also, whether or not masks protect you is irrelevant to my analogy. Please try again.


To the same extent?
Also, going over the speed limit could cause you to crash into the wall, so yes, it's relevant.


Lacius said:


> More people are dying from COVID-19 than car accidents. The data is clear that many if not most of these deaths were preventable, and the #1 most effective thing that can be done is mask-wearing.


No deaths are preventable. Not while the stuff that works is being banned while the rushed vaccines are being shown in the spotlight. No vaccine is good enough unless it's had at least five years' worth of testing, except maybe Regeneron or Sputnik V.


djpannda said:


> Your soo right speed limit are instinct, I mean every time I watch fast and furious, Im instinct is telling me to hit the metal to the petal!!! WOO
> and yea I mean I never caused any Damage when I had Corna... I mean I went every where without a mask. I visited my family and friends everyday..notthing happen .. but its a-little weird that a week after that my grandparents died..and my uncle was in a respirator for a week. but I'm sure thats unrelated


My grandparents came in close contact with a COVID patient and they're perfectly fine.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Nobody has changed their position on the virus. It's getting worse, not better. Yes, there are videos and photos I've seen where people should be farther apart, but some of these are cases of people who are friends/family who might not need to social distance if they live together, many people are still social distancing, and they're wearing masks. We can talk later if there's evidence of these events leading to "superspreading," but that's not the case yet. For superspreading events, you need to look at Trump's rallies that lack social distancing and largely lack masks. These rallies have demonstrably left COVID-19 upticks in their wakes.



Enforcement & guidelines in general have been entirely partisan, which is what led to people removing the face diapers and saying fuck it.  The only obsession is with these dumb cloths while neglecting every other quorum of common sense, we have liberal states that closed churches but allowed strip clubs to remain open and give lap dances as long as masks were wrong. https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/de-blasio-struggles-to-defend-coronavirus-rules-amid-protests/


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As long as I'm not actively, without a doubt, endangering others' lives, they're not my responsibility.
> 
> To the same extent?
> 
> ...



Thank you your a inspiration.  another example that proves the Corona lie!!! We just have to make sure People don't  look at the 250,000 grandparents, uncles, aunts, mothers, fathers, kids who died from Corona.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As long as I'm not actively, without a doubt, endangering others' lives, they're not my responsibility.
> 
> To the same extent?
> 
> ...


You are actively endangering lives if you speed. You are actively endangering lives if you don't wear a mask in a pandemic.

Considering the death toll comparisons, masks might protect people more than not speeding. It also doesn't matter which "protects me more." The analogy still works. I'm awaiting a substantive rebuttal.

Some deaths are 100% preventable. You're talking out of your ass.

I'm glad your grandparents are fine, but just because one person is exposed and fine doesn't mean it's not a deadly pandemic. A person can survive a car accident without wearing a seatbelt. That doesn't mean seatbelts don't save lives. Anecdotes aren't data. I suggest you put aside your childish blind devotion to Trump and conservative politics and focus on the facts for once. You're young. Make this a turning point in your life when you accept reason over ideology. Now's a good time.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You are actively endangering lives if you speed. You are actively endangering lives if you don't wear a mask in a pandemic.
> 
> Considering the death toll comparisons, masks might protect people more than not speeding. It also doesn't matter which "protects me more." The analogy still works. I'm awaiting a substantive rebuttal.




 


Lacius said:


> Some deaths are 100% preventable. You're talking out of your ass.


Fair point, the graph above pretty much proves that more people will die if we take precautions.


Lacius said:


> I'm glad your grandparents are fine, but just because one person is exposed and fine doesn't mean it's not a deadly pandemic. A person can survive a car accident without wearing a seatbelt. That doesn't mean seatbelts don't save lives. Anecdotes aren't data. I suggest you put aside your childish blind devotion to Trump and conservative politics and focus on the facts for once. You're young. Make this a turning point in thor life when you accept reason over ideology.


"Freedom is childish."


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As long as I'm not actively, without a doubt, endangering others' lives, they're not my responsibility.
> 
> To the same extent?
> Also, going over the speed limit could cause you to crash into the wall, so yes, it's relevant.
> ...


Make this a turning point in your life dude. Wear a mask. Don't screw your life & life of others.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You are actively endangering lives if you speed. You are actively endangering lives if you don't wear a mask in a pandemic.
> 
> Considering the death toll comparisons, masks might protect people more than not speeding. It also doesn't matter which "protects me more." The analogy still works. I'm awaiting a substantive rebuttal.
> 
> ...



You crazy liberal..trying to teach us about odds or statistics.. mask DONT WORK. I mean if they did wouldn't DR and Nurse would be wearing them in Hospitals.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

Reposting this in order to continue awareness that no fraud took place other than from Trump trying to stop vote counts and being a crybaby over made up bullshit. For those of you that have a Twitter that you don't care to involve with politics, re-tweet this.
1/ ALRIGHT Y'ALL. ELECTION FRAUD DEBUNKING MEGA THREAD. I’m following claims of fraud and looking into them. I think I’ve solved most now. Nothing is holding up under any scrutiny so far so I’m making a thread to track in one place. Please RT! #ElectionResults2020 #Election2020— Isaac Saul (@Ike_Saul) November 5, 2020




UltraSUPRA said:


> Fair point, the graph above pretty much proves that more people will die if we take precautions.


I somehow knew you'd be here spreading malarkey. Like that? It's "Bidenism". Anyway, you never answered my question. You know which one, too. If you thought you could just ignore a thread and run to another to spread idiocy, sorry.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Enforcement & guidelines in general have been entirely partisan, which is what led to people removing the face diapers and saying fuck it.  The only obsession is with these dumb cloths while neglecting every other quorum of common sense, we have liberal states that closed churches but allowed strip clubs to remain open and give lap dances as long as masks were wrong. https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/de-blasio-struggles-to-defend-coronavirus-rules-amid-protests/


I don't care about partisan politics as they might pertain to COVID-19 in this country. They're the reason we have such a high death toll compared to the rest of the world. Here are the scientific facts:

Masks and mask mandates work. They might be the most effective thing we have against viral spread, particularly when physical distancing isn't possible.
People should be physically distancing 6+ feet whenever possible in public spaces.
Public spaces need to be kept sanitized, and people need to wash/sanitize their hands regularly.
This isn't difficult.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233232
> 
> Fair point, the graph above pretty much proves that more people will die if we take precautions.
> 
> "Freedom is childish."


Yea Corona is our bitch!!! All it took was 1.25M death to learn how to somewhat treat!!


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> You crazy liberal..trying to teach us about odds or statistics.. mask DONT WORK.


Yes they do. Science says so. You don't have to be a liberal to believe in science. Stop politicizing a pandemic.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233232
> 
> Fair point, the graph above pretty much proves that more people will die if we take precautions.
> 
> "Freedom is childish."


Your responses seem detached from the conversation, which makes it difficult, if not almost impossible, to respond. You're not being coherent. Your graph doesn't contradict the part of my post you were responding to, the graph does not "prove more people will die if we take precautions," and I never said freedom was childish. Are you okay?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> Stop politicizing a pandemic.


Yes, stop using China's bioweapon for political gain when the Black Plague still exists in California.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> Yes they do. Science says so. You don't have to be a liberal to believe in science. Stop politicizing a pandemic.


He's a sarcastic speaker. Every post he does is sarcastic.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

omgcat said:


> PLEASE TAKE A STATS COURSE!



My MaSC prepared me to analyze data just fine thank you, which I know you didn't do in 10 minutes between posts.  You looked for a partisan argument in the comment section and parroted it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> He's a sarcastic speaker. Every post he does is sarcastic.


Then that's on me.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Your responses seem detached from the conversation. Your graph doesn't contradict the part of my post you were responding to, the graph does not "prove more people will die if we take precautions," and I never said freedom was childish. Are you okay?


Did Sweden do anything to stop COVID?


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Did Sweden do anything to stop COVID?


Yeah, they wore masks and socially distanced. Something Americans seem incapable of doing because half the country are dipshits.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Did Sweden do anything to stop COVID?


People in Sweden largely social distanced and wore masks. There were differences when it came to mandates, but there were still mandates (bans on large gatherings, etc.). When you consider Sweden's population and population density, an argument can be made their response was relatively poor in hindsight. What's your point?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

The science on masks is shaky at best, we have had corona viruses and airborne respiratory illness for all of modern history and every study prior to 2020 says cloth masks don't do a fucking thing.    What is bad for covid,  A Bunch of Karen's with silly catch phrases sewn on their new face accessories going to the store in groups, touching a bunch of shit unnecessarily and still using their phones.  Masks are a detriment if the wearer is not disciplined enough not to touch their face.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The science on masks is shaky at best, we have had corona viruses and airborne respiratory illness for all of modern history and every study prior to 2020 says cloth masks don't do a fucking thing.    It's what bad for covid?  A Bunch of Karen's with silly catch phrases sewn on their new face accessories going to the store in groups, touching a bunch of shit unnecessarily and still using their phones.  Masks are a detriment of the wearer is not disciplined enough not to touch their face.


The science of mask efficacy is clear, and while different kinds of masks have different degrees of efficacy, cloth masks work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic#:~:text=A surgical mask, by design,sneezes, or certain medical procedures.&text=However, in practice, with respect,as N95 or FFP masks

Edit: We also have great studies on COVID-19 transmission rates in counties with mask mandates and in comparable counties without mask mandates, and the results are quite clear that masks and mask mandates work. It's unambiguous.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The science on masks is shaky at best,


It's really not, but I assume you're a biochemist, or work in biology in general, so I guess you're right.


jimbo13 said:


> we have had corona viruses and airborne respiratory illness for all of modern history and every study prior to 2020 says cloth masks don't do a fucking thing


https://www.history.com/news/1918-pandemic-public-health-campaigns


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> People in Sweden largely social distanced and wore masks. There were differences when it came to mandates, but there were still mandates (bans on large gatherings, etc.). When you consider Sweden's population and population density, an argument can be made their response was relatively poor in hindsight. What's your point?


It's almost as if it's a natural instinct to do things you're not supposed to do and get away with them. I won't be wearing masks if I don't have to, but I'd imagine many of us who are against them would.
Here's a good Stonetoss comic on the matter.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> It's really not, but I assume you're a biochemist, or work in biology in general, so I guess you're right.
> 
> https://www.history.com/news/1918-pandemic-public-health-campaigns



Actually I am a materials engineer, I design clean rooms and I know how many aerosol PPMs pass through cloth.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The science on masks is shaky at best, we have had corona viruses and airborne respiratory illness for all of modern history and every study prior to 2020 says cloth masks don't do a fucking thing.    What is bad for covid,  A Bunch of Karen's with silly catch phrases sewn on their new face accessories going to the store in groups, touching a bunch of shit unnecessarily and still using their phones.  Masks are a detriment if the wearer is not disciplined enough not to touch their face.



Thank you, mask are useless, I mean what do those silly  DR and Nurses  know? Its not like the medical field has been wearing maks 100 years . . Please I remember when Ebloa was the disease of the week and no Dr needed any type of protection.. its un-American


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Actually I am a materials engineer, I design clean rooms and I know how many aerosol PPMs pass through cloth.


We also have great studies on COVID-19 transmission rates in counties with mask mandates and in comparable counties without mask mandates, and the results are quite clear that masks and mask mandates work. It's unambiguous. Claiming you "know things" doesn't contradict the science. Claiming to "know things" isn't data.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The science of mask efficacy is clear, and while different kinds of masks have different degrees of efficacy, cloth masks work.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic#:~:text=A surgical mask, by design,sneezes, or certain medical procedures.&text=However, in practice, with respect,as N95 or FFP masks
> 
> Edit: We also have great studies on COVID-19 transmission rates in counties with mask mandates and in comparable counties without mask mandates, and the results are quite clear that masks and mask mandates work. It's unambiguous.



Correlation does equal causation, it's safe to assume anyplace with a mask mandate had numerous other measures at play simultaneously.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Actually I am a materials engineer, I design clean rooms and I know how many aerosol PPMs pass through cloth.


Thanks for the word soup. I'm sure you think you're gonna get me to go "oh derr okie dokie", but that has absolutely nothing to do with epidemiology. So, congrats for knowing the safe levels of lead and asbestos, I guess.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's almost as if it's a natural instinct to do things you're not supposed to do and get away with them. I won't be wearing masks if I don't have to, but I'd imagine many of us who are against them would.
> Here's a good Stonetoss comic on the matter.


Masks and mask mandates work. Arguing defiance is natural doesn't make it moral, and it doesn't make you or people like you less of assholes for (and you admitted this) not caring about the lives of strangers around you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> We also have great studies on COVID-19 transmission rates in counties with mask mandates and in comparable counties without mask mandates, and the results are quite clear that masks and mask mandates work. It's unambiguous. Claiming you "know things" doesn't contradict the science. Claiming to "know things" isn't data.



I've read numerous peer reviewed studies on the subject, there is no shortage of studies and medical professionals that deny the efficacy of cloth masks preventing airborne transmissions.  I'll gladly concede there is a few whipped up in the last 6 months that contradict the last 50 years of accepted science.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's almost as if it's a natural instinct to do things you're not supposed to do and get away with them.


I'll reiterate a point @Lacius made; do you follow speed limit laws? If so, why? If your life and everyone else's means this little, why have you not killed yourself yet?


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The science on masks is shaky at best, we have had corona viruses and airborne respiratory illness for all of modern history and every study prior to 2020 says cloth masks don't do a fucking thing.    What is bad for covid,  A Bunch of Karen's with silly catch phrases sewn on their new face accessories going to the store in groups, touching a bunch of shit unnecessarily and still using their phones.  Masks are a detriment if the wearer is not disciplined enough not to touch their face.


Why do you care to fight it? What's the worst that'll happen if you wear a mask?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Correlation does equal causation, it's safe to assume anyplace with a mask mandate had numerous other measures at play simultaneously.


In the meta analysis I'm talking about, a causal link was demonstrated, and other measures were controlled for.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Why do you care to fight it? What's the worst that'll happen if you wear a mask?


Suffocation.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)




----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suffocation.


Something that doesn't happen unless you catch COVID.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I've read numerous peer reviewed studies on the subject, there is no shortage of studies and medical professionals that deny the efficacy of cloth masks preventing airborne transmissions.  I'll gladly concede there is a few whipped up in the last 6 months that contradict the last 50 years of accepted science.


Fact check: The science of mask efficacy is clear, and it's untrue that we had "50 years of accepted science that masks don't work." It's good practice not to pull false information out of your ass when people around you are fact-checking. At the very least, it'll save you from embarrassment.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suffocation.


I hadn't suffocated, I wear one everyday to work. Doctors wear one when operating. Are doctors wrong for wearing one?

Isn't that an over dramatic reaction to wearing a mask.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233233


The chance of dying of COVID-19 is about 1%. Are you dumb, playing dumb, or intentionally trying to mislead people? We've been over this before: I suggest fact-checking your memes so you don't look like a complete idiot.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suffocation.


yea, people don't understand...  only you* and me remember *the medial Suffocation of 1993!!! hundreds of DR died wearing a mask. That the reason NO DR wears mask any more!!!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suffocation.


If you're suffocating, you're doing it wrong. Ironically, not wearing a mask might lead to suffocation.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233233


Lul


SG854 said:


> Isn't that an over dramatic reaction to wearing a mask.


He doesn't go outside. His parents keep him inside and fill his head with Nazi propaganda and "homeschooling". He's admitted this in another thread.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Fact check: When you type fact check doesn't magically make things true, there is no long term studies on the efficacy of cloth masks stopping airborne transmission of viruses, because they don't.  Anecdotal bullshit done in a panic in 2020 is not clear science, they may prevent covid but anyone claiming it is a clear proven fact is either ignorant or a liar.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Why do you care to fight it? What's the worst that'll happen if you wear a mask?


He's fighting it because Trump told him to, and he will listen to anything Trump says because, uh, Jesus and abortion or something.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea, people don't understand...  only you* and me remember *the medial Suffocation of 1993!!! hundreds of DR died wearing a mask. That the reason NO DR wears mask any more!!!


I remember that. When the government deemed wearing masks unsafe and banned masks for medical use. We lost so many brave doctors that day.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> no long term studies on the efficacy of cloth masks stopping airborne transmission of viruses


Probably because we haven't had a chance to do so yet, you dunce. But hey, if people like you keep up your belief that masks don't prevent, we will get the chance to study this.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check: When you type fact check doesn't magically make things true, there is no long term studies on the efficacy of cloth masks stopping airborne transmission of viruses, because they don't.  Anecdotal bullshit done in a panic in 2020 is not clear science, they may be against covid but anyone claiming it is a clear proven fact is either ignorant or a liar.


The science of the efficacy of face masks dates farther back than 2020. The 2003 Sars epidemic would like a word with you.

I'm also aware typing fact check doesn't magically make the things I type facts. The things I type being true is what makes them facts.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The science of the efficacy of face masks dates farther back than 2020. The 2003 Sars epidemic would like a word with you.
> 
> I'm also aware typing fact check doesn't magically make the things I type facts. The things I type being true is what makes them facts.


Circa 1918 - Spanish Flu


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> Circa 1918 - Spanish Flu


That's cool I didn't know that. Thanks for that.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The science of the efficacy of face masks dates farther back than 2020. The 2003 Sars epidemic would like a word with you.
> 
> I'm also aware typing fact check doesn't magically make the things I type facts. The things I type being true is what makes them facts.



0 peer reviewed studies prior to 2020 demonstrating the efficacy of a cloth mask against a airborne virus, that is a fact and you pulling shit out of your ass doesn't change that.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> Circa 1918 - Spanish Flu


@jimbo13 also doesn't seem to understand that the length of time something has been established science is also irrelevant to whether or not the science says something is true. All that matters is the data.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> 0 peer reviewed studies prior to 2020 demonstrating the efficacy of a cloth mask against a airborne virus, that is a fact and you pulling shit out of your ass doesn't change that.


See my post above.

Edit: it also didn't take me long to find studies older than 2020. Is your ignorance willful?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_face_mask


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 0 peer reviewed studies prior to 2020 demonstrating the efficacy of a cloth mask against a airborne virus, that is a fact and you pulling shit out of your ass doesn't change that.


Isn't it better to be safe then sorry?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 0 peer reviewed studies prior to 2020 demonstrating the efficacy of a cloth mask against a airborne virus, that is a fact and you pulling shit out of your ass doesn't change that.


yea  and 4 out of 5 dentist recommend trident!! me I prefer dentyne ice


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> @jimbo13 also doesn't seem to understand that the length of time something has been established science is also irrelevant to whether or not the science says something is true. All that matters is the data.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Like I said, he really only knows how to measure the safe levels of dangerous substances within a domicile. He's basically a dry wall installer with a mold inspector certification. This somehow makes him an epidemiologist that can make scientific claims in the medical field.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Isn't it better to be safe then sorry?



I don't consider submitting to leftists using a virus pandemic for social engineering as safe, I'd rather get covid than embolden these people.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I don't consider submitting to leftists using a virus pandemic for social engineering as safe, I'd rather get covid than embolden these people.


"Leftists" aren't using a pandemic for social engineering. Put up or shut up. You've already stated several demonstrably untrue things in this thread, and I'm losing patience.

If demonstrated in this post, and probably other posts, that you are putting politics before science. You've lost all semblance of objectivity, if you had any to begin with.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I don't consider submitting to leftists using a virus pandemic for social engineering as safe, I'd rather get covid than embolden these people.


And there we go, foregoing science for politics. Good job entirely discrediting yourself.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?


yea these people have been misled and been lied to for 4 year by the president ....
..sorry I mean 2 days by the president-elect ...
sorry I mean the guy who won the popular vote and electoral votes too


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> And there we go, foregoing science for politics. Good job entirely discrediting yourself.



What science would that be? And I don't mean that which you pull out of your ass and or capitalizing the word fact, I mean a peer reviewed paper prior to those done in the midst of covid hysteria demonstrating the efficacy of cloth against airborne pathogens.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> What science would that be? And I don't mean that which you pull out of your ass and or capitalizing fact, I mean a peer reviewed paper prior to those done in the midst of covid hysteria.


Burden of proof is on you, bud. You're the one making the counter claims and turning it political by calling this pandemic "leftist social engineering".


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I don't consider submitting to leftists using a virus pandemic for social engineering as safe, I'd rather get covid than embolden these people.


And then what?
You'll be immune for up to 6 months.
Then you'll get it again.
Then you'll be immune for up to six months.
[...]
Then you'll get 60 years old.
Ten you'll get it again.
Then you'll die.

Probably cursing the young flipper snapper who gave it to you because he wouldnt submit to social rules...

Genius. 

Thats for when vaccines are available, and you use the same logic not to get it to produce something along the lines of 'coordinated' crowd immunity.

But before that you are trying to prevent hospitals from being overrunn every winter, for another year or so.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I don't consider submitting to leftists using a virus pandemic for social engineering as safe, I'd rather get covid than embolden these people.


And where did you get the idea that social engineering is happening?

So you are rebelling, putting yourself and others at risk just because your ego doesn't want them to be emboldened? Your ego and mental satisfaction to not give them a win is more important then wearing a mask?


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?


Yes I have


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> What science would that be? And I don't mean that which you pull out of your ass and or capitalizing the word fact, I mean a peer reviewed paper prior to those done in the midst of covid hysteria demonstrating the efficacy of cloth against airborne pathogens.


I was nice when I corrected this the first time, but now you're repeating the same obvious falsehoods. Do it again a third time, and I probably won't be as nice.


The science is clear on masks. They work.
Cloth masks work.
Studies go back to before 2020 (see link below for linked studies)
It wouldn't matter if the studies were only from 2020. That's not how science works. What matters is the data. Scientific understanding changes all the time. I would rather use a 2020 study than a 2010 study, and anyone who actually had a background in science would understand this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_face_mask


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Yes, fuck commies.  Fuck Biden, fuck Hillary Clinton.  I really truly hope I killed someone's grand parents spreading covid for raising a dumb purple haired child with a nose ring. Every character of text Lacius or Joom types makes me prefer a doomsday asteroid more so than sharing the same air contaminated by these peoples proximity.


HAHAHAHAHAHA "I'm wrong so now I'm gonna REEEEEEEEE about the blue hairs!" The fuck outta here, my dude. Sorry you're an idiot with baseless arguments and have to resort to insulting people who intimidate you. Grow up, you child. I hope you and your entire family succumbs to COVID. I hope so badly for this, so you can understand its devastation and what level of loss it causes.

To push this further, I was a fabricator in small rural town before the pandemic. I was a blue collar laborer. I provided a service to this country as we were the only company in the entire US that built the poultry equipment we sold. Trump and his handling of this bullshit cost me my job, and now my wife and I can barely eat as we take care of her 88 year old great grandmother that lives on our property. Fuck this dude wishing death onto others. Fuck him for being in an obvious position where he isn't encumbered by this pandemic and not having empathy for his fellow man while retaining this privilege.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I was nice when I corrected this the first time, but now you're repeating the same obvious falsehoods. Do it again a third time, and I probably won't be as nice.
> 
> 
> The science is clear on masks. They work.
> ...



Then post it or STFU.  You declaring it exists does not make it true.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Then post it or STFU.  You declaring it exists does not make it true.


I did.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Yes, fuck commies.  Fuck Biden, fuck Hillary Clinton.  I really truly hope I killed someone's grand parents spreading covid for raising a dumb purple haired child with a nose ring. Every character of text Lacius or Joom types makes me prefer a doomsday asteroid more so than sharing the same air contaminated by these peoples proximity.


I hope you're not serious.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Yes, fuck commies.  Fuck Biden, fuck Hillary Clinton.  I really truly hope I killed someone's grand parents spreading covid for raising a dumb purple haired child with a nose ring. Every character of text Lacius or Joom types makes me prefer a doomsday asteroid more so than sharing the same air contaminated by these peoples proximity.


Thats the spirit.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Yes, fuck commies.  Fuck Biden, fuck Hillary Clinton.  I really truly hope I killed someone's grand parents spreading covid for raising a dumb purple haired child with a nose ring. Every character of text Lacius or Joom types makes me prefer a doomsday asteroid more so than sharing the same air contaminated by these peoples proximity.


Aren't Trump supporters less likely to wear a mask and Democrats more likely to wear one. So you would mostly be killing Trump supporters instead, and not the purple haired child with a nose ring.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I did.



Wikipedia is not a peer reviewed paper from a medical journal, and studies other than very recent hysteria driven anecdotes do not claim efficacy of cloth masks.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wikipedia is not a peer reviewed paper from a medical journal, and studies other than very recent hysteria driven anecdotes do not claim efficacy of cloth masks.


It's a good thing then that it's a compendium of sources, including peer reviewed papers from medical journals, huh?

In addition to checking those sources out, perhaps read my point on how it wouldn't matter in the slightest if every bit of data we had on cloth masks was from 2020.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wikipedia is not a peer reviewed paper from a medical journal, and studies other than very recent hysteria driven anecdotes do not claim efficacy of cloth masks.


Yea Jumbo ,, Facebook and twitter is the only medical papers we need


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> In addition to checking those sources out, perhaps read my point on how it wouldn't matter in the slightest if every bit of data we had on cloth masks was from 2020.[/QUOTE



Sure it does, if we have 50 years of research all stating the same thing, recent studies done in a panic on anecdotal evidence is not as strong.  I prefer the numerous prior sources to recent hysteria driven ones.  Good science demonstrates it was free of a agenda driven motivation.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sure it does, if we have 50 years of research all stating the same thing, recent studies done in a panic on anecdotal evidence is not as strong.  I prefer the numerous prior sources to recent hysteria driven ones.


I could post a number of wrong scientific ideas that were the consensus for 50+ years before they were eventually disproved. If you had a scientific background, you'd know that. Hell, I wasn't even allowed to use scientific papers that were 10+ years old half the time.

And, again, we have science from before 2020 on the efficacy of cloth masks.

I honestly feel like you've more or less given up and you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> And, again, we have science from before 2020 on the efficacy of cloth masks.



Fact check :And that science says they don't disrupt airborne pathogens.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sure it does, if we have 50 years of research all stating the same thing, recent studies done in a panic on anecdotal evidence is not as strong.  I prefer the numerous prior sources to recent hysteria driven ones.  Good science demonstrates it was free of a agenda driven motivation.


How recent are the studies you are looking at? The date matters.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check : No you don't.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_face_mask

Scroll down to the efficacy studies.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> How recent are the studies you are looking at? The date matters.


@jimbo13 doesn't understand. That, or he's put partisanship way above science.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_face_mask
> 
> Scroll down to the efficacy studies.



No, I already been down this rabbit hole and I read numerous sources on the topic.  I went straight to academic databases and there was no long term studies demonstrating the efficacy of masks.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wikipedia is not a peer reviewed paper from a medical journal, and studies other than very recent hysteria driven anecdotes do not claim efficacy of cloth masks.


Here: German Center of Air and Space Travel has looked into how much they stop/affect aerosol dispersion
https://www.dlr.de/content/de/artikel/news/2020/04/20201026_aeromask.html (german) - scientifically.

Result: The experiments show clearly the effect of every day type masks (chirurgical, cloth) on the dispersion of exhaled aerosols and particles, in addition to their positive effect on infection prevention.

That doesnt help, if they are in on the big social engineering project you are afraid of, of course.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> Here: German Center of Air and Space Travel has looked into how much they stop aerosol dispersion
> https://www.dlr.de/content/de/artikel/news/2020/04/20201026_aeromask.html (german) - scientifically.
> 
> Result: The experimnts show clearly the effect of every day type masks (chirurgical, cloth) on the dispersion of exhaled aerosols and particles, in addition to their positive effect on infection prevention.
> ...



Links dead dude.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Links dead dude.


No, it's not.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No, I already been down this rabbit hole and I read numerous sources on the topic.  I went straight to academic databases and there was no long term studies demonstrating the efficacy of masks.


Somebody isn't doing his homework and somehow thinks he's going to do well on the test.

Somebody also thinks he can arbitrarily discount the preponderance of studies we have just because they commit the grave sin of being *gasp* contemporaneous.

That's a bad combination.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No, I already been down this rabbit hole and I read numerous sources on the topic.  I went straight to academic databases and there was no long term studies demonstrating the efficacy of masks.


Well post them. Show us your sources. If you are confident your sources are correct and infallible, then show us them.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

[USER=307373 said:
			
		

> @jimbo13[/USER] doesn't understand. That, or he's put partisanship way above science.





jimbo13 said:


> No, I already been down this rabbit hole and I read numerous sources on the topic.  I went straight to academic databases and there was no long term studies demonstrating the efficacy of masks.


YEA WE ALREADY PROVIDED the screen shot from facebook post from "notarussianbot42" and they still don't believe mask don't work.. Liberal don't understand how news and science work now


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


>



And Gore was the president of 2000.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Links dead dude.


Link works here.

Here is the google cache entry:

https://webcache.googleusercontent....01026_aeromask.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de

Here is the archive.org snapshot:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020110...e/artikel/news/2020/04/20201026_aeromask.html


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> And Gore was the president of 2000.


Unironically thinking Trump is gonna be able to pull a Bush, lol. This video is about you, bud.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> And Gore was the president of 2000.


Al Gore should have been the president in 2000/2001, for several reasons.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Al Gore should have been the president in 2000/2001, for several reasons.


See the above video.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> See the above video.


Oh, I saw it. I didn't feel the need to respond to it.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> My MaSC prepared me to analyze data just fine thank you, which I know you didn't do in 10 minutes between posts.  You looked for a partisan argument in the comment section and parroted it.



explain to me the reasoning for using Benford's law for this particular type of data. I asked for links to raw data, and you didn't supply anything but a link to some bullshit charts that would get a failing grade in stats 101. without the raw data, we have no way to make sure the charts weren't bullshit to begin with.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> You crazy liberal..trying to teach us about odds or statistics.. mask DONT WORK. I mean if they did wouldn't DR and Nurse would be wearing them in Hospitals.


Wait, it's for pathogen protection? I thought it was to keep them from being recognize if they made a mistake .
I found not one, but two sources that seems to corroborate my statement :

http://www.kidsjokesoftheday.com/htmls/kids-jokes/Doctor-Doctor-Jokes/20150304173727_462.html
https://www.funnyjokester.com/funny-doctor-joke/


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> Link works here.
> 
> Here is the google cache entry:
> 
> ...



Thank you, This study was published 10/26/2020, I am not denying there is a few recent covid specific studies claiming the efficacy of cloth masks.  I choose to defer to the numerous peer reviewed studies covering a wide array of airborne pathogens consistently demonstrating they are not effective.  If it is not N95 or better, it is not doing shit.   Want to gofundme a N95 and a full tyvek kit? i'll happily wear it on my monthly trip to the grocery store.  But  the hand knitted face diapers Karen added some rhinestones to is not doing a fucking thing, and there is not a single credible study that says otherwise.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Thank you, This study was published 10/26/2020, I am not denying there is a few recent covid specific studies claiming the efficacy of cloth masks against.  I choose to defer to the numerous peer reviewed studies covering a wide array of airborne pathogens consistently demonstrating they are not effective.  If it is not N95 or better, it is not doing shit.   Want to gofundme a N95 and a full tyvek kit? i'll happily wear it on my monthly trip to the grocery store.  But with the little hand knitted face diapers Karen added some rhines too is not doing a fucking thing, and there is not a single credible study that says otherwise.


Let's see those peer review studies then. 
My Body is Ready!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

Guys.  Nobody voted for Biden.  It was a computer glitch.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Guys.  Nobody voted for Biden.  It was a computer glitch.


This is actually true in at least one Pennsylvanian county.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Guys.  Nobody voted for Biden.  It was a computer glitch.


Yes I another believer, no one believes that millions of black people voted in Philiy and Atlanta  because they were tried of being treated like subhumans..that crazy!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Let's see those peer review studies then.
> My Body is Ready!



Then look them up yourself, I don't care if you wear a mask or not.  I already did my research and made a decision for myself, that's the upside of not being a communist I don't have to obsess about what everyone else is doing and blaming others.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yes I another believer, no one believes that millions of black people voted in Philiy and Atlanta  because they were tried of being treated like subhumans..that crazy!!



Yeah, they were treated like slaves under Trump.  But that has nothing to do with what I said.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

j
[QUOTE="tabzer said:


> Yeah, they were treated like slaves under Trump.  But that has nothing to do with what I said.


 Get out of here with those lies
*Lindsey Graham says Black people can 'go anywhere' in South Carolina if conservative*
but "go anywhere"just means their own town, and make sure they wear a Conservative sign because people tend to shoot trespassers


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Get out of here with those lies
> *Lindsey Graham says Black people can 'go anywhere' in South Carolina if conservative*
> but "go anywhere"just means their own town, and make sure they wear a Conservative sign because people tend to shoot trespassers


What does anything you say have to do with a computer glitch?  Are you crazy?


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Then look them up yourself, I don't care if you wear a mask or not.  I already did my research and made a decision for myself, that's the upside of not being a communist I don't have to obsess about what everyone else is doing and blaming others.


You don't care but other people do since your actions are affecting others.

That's just good advice in general. Take responsibility for your actions and not blame others. And I hope you do the same to take responsibility for your actions when you negatively affect people lives by spreading covid maybe even hospitalizing them. And not blame it on bad data & studies that you thought was correct to claim it's not my fault after people have informed you that the data was infact bad.


----------



## XDel (Nov 9, 2020)

yusuo said:


> "
> reign of hatred


???


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> You don't care but other people do since your actions are affecting others.
> 
> That's just good advice in general. Take responsibility for your actions and not blame others. And I hope you do the same to take responsibility for your actions when you negatively affect people lives by spreading covid maybe even hospitalizing them. And not blame it on bad data & studies that you thought was correct to claim it's not my fault after people have informed you that the data was in fact bad.



No they don't, my nearest neighbor is 14 miles away. It will be march before I go to the city again and the city which I visit no one other than paranoid spinsters are wearing masks.  If I were to wear a mask to town the locals would be worried about the commie stranger lurking around.

And I did not base my decision on bad science, there is no good science on masks for or against honestly. The handful of studies that are out there prior to covid doubt the efficacy, the new ones aren't examining the actual issue, but rather infection rates which could be due to any number of variables.

My deal breakers was people like yourself and Lacius, coincidently at all hysterical leftists screaming that it is settled science when it is not.   When the truth is all the studies are rather inconclusive.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No they don't, my nearest neighbor is 14 miles away. It will be march before I go to the city again and the city which I visit no one other than paranoid spinsters are wearing masks.  If I were to wear a mask to town the locals would be worried about the commie stranger lurking around.


I hope you are not avoiding to wear a mask when March comes because of what others think of you. Where's that rebellious nature?


How confident are you with your belief that mask don't do anything. Rate from 1% to 100% . That you with no education in the medical field and how to disect the studies properly. How confident are you that your information is correct?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> I hope you are not avoiding to wear a mask come March because of what others think of you. Where's that rebellious nature?
> 
> 
> How confident are you with your belief that mask don't do anything. Rate from 1% to 100% . That you with no education in the medical field and how to direct the studies properly. How confident are you that your information is correct?



50%, there is no shortage of data for or against.  My grandmother, retired MD.  Former head of infectious medicine at UC Davis Sacramento isn't wearing a mask, she's not exactly ignorant of the issue.  But 50% isn't enough either way to embolden hysterical idiots who want to make choices for other people.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What does anything you say have to do with a computer glitch?  Are you crazy?[/QUOTE
> no I'm just explain the computer glitch to you... so many black people voting





jimbo13 said:


> 50%, there is no shortage of data for or against.  My grandmother, retired MD.  Former head of infectious medicine at UC Davis Sacramento isn't wearing a mask, she's not exactly ignorant of the issue.  But 50% isn't enough either way to embolden hysterical idiots who want to make choices for other people.


Mickey Mouse .. easter bunny.. and  James Bond... they real people ..right?


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 50%, there is no shortage of data for or against.  My grandmother, retired MD.  Former head of infectious medicine at UC Davis Sacramento isn't wearing a mask, she's not exactly ignorant of the issue.  But 50% isn't enough either way to embolden hysterical idiots who want to make choices for other people.


Yeah well my dad's the president of Nintendo and he says your grandma is dumb. Making up things is fun, isn't it? So, first you were the expert, but now your grandma is. Hoo boy, I'm seeing a family history of "batshit" here.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 50%, there is no shortage of data for or against.  My grandmother, retired MD.  Former head of infectious medicine at UC Davis Sacramento isn't wearing a mask, she's not exactly ignorant of the issue.  But 50% isn't enough either way to embolden hysterical idiots who want to make choices for other people.


With 50% confidence which isn't great confidence wouldn't you rather be safe then sorry. Just incase that 50% you are unsure about will spread the diesease. Wear a mask because I could be wrong and I'd rather prevent the possibility of infecting other people just in case I'm wrong. There are no negatives to wearing a mask if you are right or wrong. But there is negatives if you don't wear one and you are wrong, which is other lives.

You have to humble yourself that you are not a medical professional and you need to be on the safe side that my actions could possibly hospitalized people. People that are loved that have families and friends that don't want to be dead. That will be extremely depressed if they died. Waking everyday knowing they are gone, their life empty and can't talk to them anymore.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233234


Why is all you ever retort with strawmen? Do you honestly believe that anyone on the left actually thinks this way? We're not as delusional as the right. You're telling us shit we already know. The point wasn't to get Biden in, it was to get Trump out. From there, we can chip away at the far right and bully Biden any time he does something we don't like. Fuck me, you;'re such a naive little shit.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> no I'm just explain the computer glitch to you... so many black people voting



I see.  The computers are racist!  That's good thinking.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> There are no negatives to wearing a mask if you are right or wrong.



Sure there are, the main negative is yielding to a constant state of a panic & hysteria for a illness so mild most people don't even realize they have/had it. 99.9% Survival rate. A walk thru most liberal ran area's is more dangerous than covid.  Trump is a 74 year old man whose diet consists of big macs & diet coke and he was doing 5 rallies a day 3 days later.   Furthermore the masks lend a false sense of security that leads to people engaging in far too many unnecessary activities.  All the people tugging at their face and adjusting their mask because they can't not touch things are negating any benefits the masks may have. 

Nothing dumber than a person with a mask on, stopping to hold the door for people behind them.  I stop and pretend to be tying my shoe when someone does that because I am not getting with in 10 feet of them.   All these "courteous" people cramming into breezeways missed the social distancing part when they strapped on their face diapers.

The fact is there are dozens of behaviors people should be adopting, and they aren't because they think that dumb fucking cloth on their face is protecting people.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> I see.  The computers are racist!  That's good thinking.



I know you were being sarcastic but in a world with leftists satire is dead.

*Google ‘fixed’ its racist algorithm by removing gorillas from its image-labeling tech.*
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/01/16/google-asking-employees-hurl-insults-ai/


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sure there are, the main negative is yielding to a constant state of a panic & hysteria for a illness so mild most people don't even realize they have/had it. 99.9% Survival rate. A walk thru most liberal ran area's is more dangerous than covid.  Trump is a 74 year old man whose diet consists of big macs & diet coke and he was doing 5 rallies a day 3 days later.   Furthermore the masks lend a false sense of security that leads to people engaging in far too many unnecessary activities.  All the people tugging at their face and adjusting their mask because they can't not touch things are negating any benefits the masks may have.
> 
> Nothing dumber than a person with a mask on, stopping to hold the door for people behind them.  I stop and pretend to be tying my shoe when someone does that because I am not getting with in 10 feet of them.   All these "courteous" people cramming into breezeways missed the social distancing part when they strapped on their face diapers.
> 
> The fact is there are dozens of behaviors people should be adopting, and they aren't because they think that dumb fucking cloth on their face is protecting people.


Now you're a psychologist. Man, how many PhDs did you receive from getting your mold inspector certification? You got anymore armchair diagnoses to make, doctor? You also totally misunderstood the "face diaper" joke. It's making fun of people like you who refuse to wear masks. Y'know, the snowflake pussies.


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233234


They're definitely Biden supporters. No question.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> They're definitely Biden supporters. No question.


Both the Confederacy and the Nazis were already stomped once by the US military. You'd think these "patriots" would take a hint already.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sure there are, the main negative is yielding to a constant state of a panic & hysteria for a illness so mild most people don't even realize they have/had it. 99.9% Survival rate. A walk thru most liberal ran area's is more dangerous than covid.  Trump is a 74 year old man whose diet consists of big macs & diet coke and he was doing 5 rallies a day 3 days later.   Furthermore the masks lend a false sense of security that leads to people engaging in far too many unnecessary activities.  All the people tugging at their face and adjusting their mask because they can't not touch things are negating any benefits the masks may have.
> 
> Nothing dumber than a person with a mask on, stopping to hold the door for people behind them.  I stop and pretend to be tying my shoe when someone does that because I am not getting with in 10 feet of them.   All these "courteous" people cramming into breezeways missed the social distancing part when they strapped on their face diapers.
> 
> ...


If I were to be honest with you, ya alot of the things you said are true. I see it all the time when I go to work and when I go out to shop for food. People break socially distancing all the time. People that wear masks do this. And people that say otherwise are probably lying.

Sometimes your mind is on something and you forget to distance. And when speaking people have a natural inclination to lean forward, to get closer so they can hear what the other person is saying. Its yrs of subconsciously doing this that its hard to change all of a sudden. Its just the way we normally socialize.

People tug on their masks all the time and probably are lazy to wash their hands every time.

But even with all of this and its not perfect, the efforts we do put it still makes a difference. Very rarely do people at my work get sick. I have not gotten sick a single time and I'm in close proximity to alot of people everyday. Dozens of people. Just because things aren't perfect doesn't mean we should just throw in a towel and give up. While not perfect the effort we do put in still does something.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> They're definitely Biden supporters. No question.



Socialist flag & Democratic flag, sounds about right. The Gadsten flag is throwing me off however. 

Do me a favor I am really slow can you can tell me the distinction between the democratic party and the confederacy? 

Also how many years has it since Biden renounced his position on keeping schools segregated?

Oh and who repealed Bidens lock up all the ethnic super predator bill from the 90s?

Hmmm... who was that again......


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Sometimes your mind is on something and you forget to distance.


There's a difference between forgetting and refusing. Breaking habit isn't easy, but it's doable if you actually want it. The real problem here is that those that refuse to adjust are really insecure with their masculinity. They think wearing a mask and doing the right thing for the greater good somehow emasculates them. It's an inferiority complex, and by not wearing a mask, they're somehow fighting the power and defending their masculinity and "independence". It's really sad.


jimbo13 said:


> Socialist flag & Democratic flag, sounds about right. The Gadsten flag is throwing me off however.



Pretending Nazis didn't hate socialists and communists, and weren't fascists.
Ignoring the party shift, but you probably did drop out before the 4th grade.
Ignoring that fascists like to LARP as Libertarians
Lol, ok dude, you're a grade A lunatic. Let's just ignore history so our fragile fantasies don't get damaged.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> There's a difference between forgetting and refusing. Breaking habit isn't easy, but it's doable if you actually want it. The real problem here is that those that refuse to adjust are really insecure with their masculinity. They think wearing a mask and doing the right thing for the greater good somehow emasculates them. It's an inferiority complex, and by not wearing a mask, they're somehow fighting the power and defending their masculinity and "independence". It's really sad.
> 
> 
> Pretending Nazis didn't hate socialists and communists, and weren't fascists.
> ...


I remember watching Bill Burr making fun of guys refusing to wear a mask on Joe Rogan podcast. Making fun of the fact that they feel emasculated.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> I remember watching Bill Burr making fun of guys refusing to wear a mask on Joe Rogan podcast. Making fun of the fact that they feel emasculated.


He's not wrong. It's fairly demonstrable by how far they'll grasp to make some sort of excuse as to why it's bad to wear a mask, even though every claim is entirely baseless and nonsensical.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 9, 2020)




----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

SG854 said:


> If I were to be honest with you, ya alot of the things you said are true. I see it all the time when I go to work and when I go out to shop for food. People break socially distancing all the time. People that wear masks do this. And people that say otherwise are probably lying.
> 
> Sometimes your mind is on something and you forget to distance. And when speaking people have a natural inclination to lean forward, to get closer so they can hear what the other person is saying. Its yrs of subconsciously doing this that its hard to change all of a sudden. Its just the way we normally socialize.
> 
> ...



Thanks for seeing what my issue is in my defense I literally live in the wilderness, North of Yaak Valley and even before the snows sat in yesterday the closest venture to a population I engage in is monthly.  I have no contact with people outside of my immediate family and I am not going to be infecting anything.  The only place I ever hit is a 24 hour walmart or winco at 3am once a month. And I do have first hand knowledge of proper sanitization being related to numerous medical professionals, I don't touch door handles, I don't shake hands, I don't touch my face out in public and that was before covid.  N95 masks are entirely effective, Biden wont be saying ramp up the production and distribution I guarantee it.

Want to see a idiot parade?  Look at all these cautious mask wearers telling people to mask up while they march behind two giant blowing germ funnels.... 

This pro-mask protest pictured below was the exact moment I decided I went from humoring people in public with a mask, to saying fuck it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Want to see a idiot


We've been looking at one this entire time.


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Socialist flag & Democratic flag, sounds about right. The Gadsten flag is throwing me off however.
> 
> Do me a favor I am really slow can you can tell me the distinction between the democratic party and the confederacy?
> 
> ...


The parties switched in case you forgot. And yes, those people are definitely not Trump supporters.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You can already prove mathematically Bidens vote is fraudulent, and it's not going to stand.  Benford's law is over most peoples but the math tells the truth and will lead to the fraud.  Just a matter of time.  In the United States, evidence based on Benford's law has been admitted in criminal cases at the federal, state, and local levels.



It's shocking how many fake votes they tried to pour in to rig the vote for Biden.  Trump even won mail-in votes by 60% or higher, and those votes were supposed to favor Biden while people voting in-person were supposed to favor Trump....yet Trump won by a landslide in both.

That's why this election fraud will never stand.  The amount of fraud and fake votes it took to try and claim Biden won is higher than the most crooked of 3rd world countries ever. They needed to be CLINCIALLY INSANE to even have tried it.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 9, 2020)

Fact check:  Government in the US is by consent, not proclamation by the crooked media and CIA rigging the vote then trying to put in a puppet candidate instead.  Nobody recognizes this scumbag Biden as the legit ruler because of mass voter fraud.  Anything he says is invalid and ignored.

Good luck trying to kill 100 million+ people who will not recognize this coup attempt as legitimate.  Mandatory lockdown?  Mandatory masks?  Mandatory contact tracing and new cashless slavery system?  Nope.  Anyone trying to prop up the Biden regime's illegal coup attemp is an enemy combatant.

Any proclamations from the people in this coup will be ignored and if they attemp to use force, this is what they will be met with all over the entire country:






The people in this coup attempt should go ahead and commit suicide.  When you log onto Zerohedge and see polls like this where you can clearly see they fooled absolutely noone with their voter fraud scam, it's over:


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> The parties switched in case you forgot. And yes, those people are definitely not Trump supporters.



No I didn't forget that bullshit narrative Democrats like to claim to deny their atrocious records on race and civil rights while they claim everyone is racist without a single factual policy position to support their claims.   What year did this alleged switch take place?


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 9, 2020)

When the people rigging the vote are too stupid to even rig it correctly and just randomly dump tens of thousands of ballots with only "Biden" circled and nothing else on the ballot at all:






Some lying shill will claim, "This is perfectly normal! It's just because a bunch of stupid cat ladies hate Trump!".  Yea, no.  People like Bush Jr were hated more than Trump because Bush was hated by most of the right as well as the left.  It's easily verifiable fraud.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

I don't live in America.  In Japan, it is pretty obvious that the election is rigged.  Maybe they are really intending to get caught for some sort of nefarious reason that I cannot fathom.  Or maybe they feel like they are trying to save America by forcing it to fix it's ballot fixing problem.

Also Bush never should have had a second term, and Trump is way better than him on any humanitarian basis.  Biden would have lost to Bush Jr, which we all know, yet Biden is outperforming Obama.  Oh my gosh.  We live in a comic book!


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 9, 2020)

At 2:40.  Hammer and scorecard vote fraud algorithm in action in real-time:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/3PUpbMyrOtjF/


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

I love that people are still carelessly throwing around "conspiracy theorist" as an insult in 2020.  Please people.  There is no-one who is not a conspiracy theorist.  There is a conspiracy.  The theory is in how is it working.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 9, 2020)

Click the video.  The CIA's hammer and scorecard vote rigging algo is supposed to do something like constantly reblance votes to give their favored candidate a 3% lead.  But it only works in 3rd world countries where everyone is uneducated, NOT in a 1st world country with tens of thousands of PhD statisticians and others watching it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

Dude, everyone knows.  Nobody is proud of Biden.  A vote for him is more shameful than a vote for Trump on the basis that everything bad people said about Trump is verifiably true about Biden.  It's a game to get the most disgusting person into office so that America doesn't matter anymore.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Dude, everyone knows.  Nobody is proud of Biden.  A vote for him is more shameful than a vote for Trump on the basis that everything bad people said about Trump is verifiably true about Biden.  It's a game to get the most disgusting person into office so that America doesn't matter anymore.



That is the goal, America is the only thing curtailing global authoritarianism.  The operation of rigging the vote and negative media is the same thing they did to Jesse Ventura, Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, Ralph Nader, Ross Perot etc.   They deep state & two party system run this same play book every time a candidate that isn't on board with their agenda. It has nothing to do with left/right partisanship.   The deep state oligarchs and cartels care about two issues to advance their agenda: aggressive militarism, and open border globalism. Trump's policies have been nationalist populism and anti interventionist, same policies they objected to when they rigged Bernie Sanders out of contention.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Socialist flag & Democratic flag, sounds about right. The Gadsten flag is throwing me off however.
> 
> Do me a favor I am really slow can you can tell me the distinction between the democratic party and the confederacy?
> 
> ...


yea Tell those liberals the FACTS...Democratic started the KKK... Nothing has changed in 150 years ... The US still has great relations with the countries of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia.. All NAZI are bad and GEORGIA is still a Republican state, and blacks aren't real people .... All of those things are still true....right?


----------



## Windaga (Nov 9, 2020)

Congratulations to the President Elect. 

What I can say is that this past week has been crazy for us. I've had 5 kids withdrawn from their classes because of concerns for their safety - 1 last Tuesday, 3 Wednesday, and 1 more this morning. 3 other teachers called out "sick" Wednesday, and all 3 are refusing to return to work until "changes" are made to our system. I've had 3 digital meetings since I started this morning focusing on safety protocols and "using neutral language" when speaking with the kids. 

And in my first class, one of my students didn't attend - her dad did, complete with a "VOTER FRAUD" shirt on. 

It was my second grade class.

I just...don't even know what to say anymore.


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> The parties switched in case you forgot. And yes, those people are definitely not Trump supporters.


That’s a leftist conspiracy theory, Do you believe in flat earth too?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> That’s a leftist conspiracy theory, Do you believe in flat earth too?


yes LEFTist Commie lies!! First they tell us that millions of Blacks  have voting rights and even crazier that they actually vote in the election, now Flater Earth are trying to tell Us the Earth is not pineapple shape (under the sea)


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

*Trump campaign voter fraud hotline flooded with prank calls *
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...fraud-hotline-flooded-with-prank-calls-report

The disrespect!! who would of thought that people would not take it serious, when the President is trying to prove his baselessly allegations, I mean un-factual Truth!!...


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 9, 2020)

I'm not sure why anyone still bothers replying to the trump nuts.

- You provide proof --> "leftist fake news!".
- Constantly moving goal posts.
- Everyone is insulting and name calling each other.

This is going in an edless circle. Let them calm down in their conspiracy echo chamber and let natural selection handle the rest (COVID-19).


----------



## Jayro (Nov 9, 2020)

I'm glad my family and friends no longer have to worry about their livelyhood being at stake for a while. Good riddance, and he better not make a resurgance 4 years from now. (He can technically run for another term in 4 years, yuck.)


----------



## linuxares (Nov 9, 2020)

In this topic, people who are happy for Biden and conspiracy nuts.

Got to love this unstable democracy the US got.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 9, 2020)

Jayro said:


> I'm glad my family and friends no longer have to worry about their livelyhood being at stake for a while. Good riddance, and he better not make a resurgance 4 years from now. (He can technically run for another term in 4 years, yuck.)



Did your friends and family strike a deal with BLM so they wouldn't burn it down? Very cool! everybody across the country should make similar deals.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Did your friends and family strike a deal with BLM so they wouldn't burn it down? Very cool! everybody across the country should make similar deals.


Yea, what I do is sprinkle salt around my door and windows. and say bloody mother 3 times then "BLM" can't enter my house.. but you have to make sure to say it 3 time otherwise it does not work..


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 9, 2020)

And of course i forgot. Congratulations to Biden and Harris! It may not be official just yet but no doubt it will be. Hopefully these bad 4 years come to a good end soon.


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> Reposting this in order to continue awareness that no fraud took place other than from Trump trying to stop vote counts and being a crybaby over made up bullshit. For those of you that have a Twitter that you don't care to involve with politics, re-tweet this.
> https://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1324435797374808066



Biden is not the President. The election was rigged. There was massive fraud. If you Libtards can claim this about the 2016 election then that's my stance on this one.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Biden is not the President. The election was rigged. There was massive fraud. If you Libtards can claim this about the 2016 election then that's my stance on this one. Facts and reality didn't matter to you so why should they matter to me?


YES!! AMEN..
 I see FredrickConnor was that the meeting with me!! when the Grand Dragon.. I mean President stated that all of those historic millions upon millions of black votes should shouldn't matter and we should say all the states where records numbers of minorities votes has voter fraud.. and we should not count the voter fraud (minorities votes) !!!


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Biden is not the President. The election was rigged. There was massive fraud. If you Libtards can claim this about the 2016 election then that's my stance on this one. Facts and reality didn't matter to you so why should they matter to me?


I hope you’re crying in January when Biden is inaugurated.


----------



## TajMacartney (Nov 9, 2020)

my favorit!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

Joom said:


> Why is all you ever retort with strawmen? Do you honestly believe that anyone on the left actually thinks this way? We're not as delusional as the right. You're telling us shit we already know. The point wasn't to get Biden in, it was to get Trump out. From there, we can chip away at the far right and bully Biden any time he does something we don't like. Fuck me, you;'re such a naive little shit.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233279



Evil is when you use the weak for your own gain

Thats hilarious that's exactly what Trump has done to all of you


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> I hope you’re crying in January when Biden is inaugurated.


When he is officially the president in january they will be claiming all the courts are corrupt. I can look into the future


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 9, 2020)

Never seen anything more relevant.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 9, 2020)

i can't believe you  muricans actually thought trump was a good president. he is a buffoon and the rest of the world has been laughing at him the whole time


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

Seeing this site infected by conspiracy-spewing extremist lunatics is disheartening.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Seeing this site infected by conspiracy-spewing extremist lunatics is disheartening.


"Right-wing extremism" was once considered centrism. The political compass as a whole is moving left.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> i can't believe you  muricans actually thought trump was a good president. he is a buffoon and the rest of the world has been laughing at him the whole time


what are you talking about, American has been loved and respected by the World, .. like Putin....and ....Putin


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Right-wing extremism" was once considered centrism. The political compass as a whole is moving left.


i see someone doesn't understand political terms in any depth to not be talking out of their ass


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Right-wing extremism" was once considered centrism. The political compass as a whole is moving left.


Yea the Good old days, when I can buy a slave.. I mean "the help", those were the days!!


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> i can't believe you  muricans actually thought trump was a good president. he is a buffoon and the rest of the world has been laughing at him the whole time


That's the thing I really don't think have a clue that the rest of the world has been laughing uncontrollably at them for the last 4 years


----------



## Jayro (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Biden is not the President. The election was rigged. There was massive fraud. If you Libtards can claim this about the 2016 election then that's my stance on this one.


The difference though is that the 2016 election was **ACTUALLY** rigged, and the 2020 election was not. Millions of democrats chose to vote early, and those early mail-in votes happened to be counted last. I don't see what's fraudulent about it, except Donald spouting more baseless lies so he won't have to leave. If there's "election fraud", then show proof or shut the fuck up.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

Jayro said:


> The differenc ethough is that the 2016 election was **ACTUALLY** rigged, and the 2020 election was not. Millions of democrats chose to vote early, and those early mail-in votes happened to be counted last. I don't see what's fraudulent about it, except Donald spouting more baseless lies so he won't have to leave. If there's "election fraud", then show proof or shut the fuck up.


it was still rigged this time there were just enough votes to overcome the absolute horse shit that are the electoral college and targeted voter suppression techniques


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> it was still rigged this time there were just enough votes to overcome the absolute horse shit that are the electoral college and targeted voter suppression techniques


Yeah, remember when those 6000 Biden votes went to Trump?

Oh, wait.


----------



## Deleted member 512337 (Nov 9, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> i can't believe you  muricans actually thought trump was a good president. he is a buffoon and the rest of the world has been laughing at him the whole time


Xi, Putin, the Saudis, basically all US "Enemies" wanted Trump because he's a moron.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yeah, remember when those 6000 Biden votes went to Trump?
> 
> Oh, wait.


I'm talking about the popular vote and the long list of articles detailing concentrated voter suppression techniques in places like georgia, texas, and most southern states in general I can pull up.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 9, 2020)

*Here are the GOP and Trump campaign’s allegations of election irregularities. So far, none has been proved.*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...704e6c-2141-11eb-ba21-f2f001f0554b_story.html


> Republicans have made claims of election irregularities in five states where President-elect Joe Biden leads in the vote count, alleging in lawsuits and public statements that election officials did not follow proper procedures while counting ballots in Tuesday’s election.
> 
> *So far, they have gone 0 for 5.*





> *But in the lawsuits themselves, even Trump’s campaign and allies do not allege widespread fraud or an election-changing conspiracy.*
> 
> Instead, GOP groups have largely focused on smaller-bore complaints in an effort to delay the counting of ballots or claims that would affect a small fraction of votes, at best.
> 
> And, even then, they have largely lost in court.





> The reason:* Judges have said the Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay. *Or in one case, hearsay written on a sticky note.
> 
> The result has been a flurry of filings that Trump has cited as a reason to avoid conceding defeat — but, so far, have done nothing to prevent the defeat itself.



I'm just gonna sit back, relax, and watch the majority of Trump's election lawsuits get flushed down the toilet where they belong.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 9, 2020)

Just as i expected. Using isolated cases of attempted voter fraud (happens in every election and from both sides) to prove widespread, result changing fraud.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 9, 2020)

This is scary. If the unfortunate happened and Trump won, they would still be using excuses and conspiracy theories for why it would be OK for him to go for a 3 term.


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## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> Just as i expected. Using isolated cases of attempted voter fraud (happens in every election and from both sides) to prove widespread, result changing fraud.


Poll watchers forgetting their glasses and need to be at least 2 feet away to see the votes ..
the lady who just moved to a different state and did not know she couldnt  vote for 30-90 from after moving ...
These all  those 50 cases are valid examples of the voter frauds and justify throwing out 147 millions votes
 sorry I edited for spelling error..American Public education


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Poll watches forgetting their glasses and need to be at least 2 feet away..
> the lady who just moved to a different state and did know there can vote for 30-90 from moving ...
> These all  those 50 case are valid examples of the voter frauds and justify throwing out 147 millions votes


that was not english


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> I hope you’re crying in January when Biden is inaugurated.



I'm not going to cry over something so petty. Biden is simply not my President and never will be. He colluded with China to cheat in the 2020 election and needs to be impeached as soon as possible regardless if he's actually innocent or not.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not going to cry over something so petty. Biden is simply not my President and never will be. He colluded with China to cheat in the 2020 election and needs to be impeached as soon as possible regardless if he's actually innocent or not.


oh my god, did he really? that's so horrible, can you provide me a couple pieces of evidence for that from reputable sources?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not going to cry over something so petty. Biden is simply not my President and never will be. He colluded with China to cheat in the 2020 election and needs to be impeached as soon as possible regardless if he's actually innocent or not.


Yea I read the Putin-zine also.. it told us about finding massive china collusion and told us to write our Credit card # and allow 3-6 weeks for the proof to definitely mailed out


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:
			
		

> ...



I personally know a whistle blower who witnessed the collusion conversation between Biden and China, however, the source is confidential, but that shouldn't matter because just like in 2019 a President can be impeached with no damning evidence what so ever. Presidents can now be impeached simply because one side said the won an election. That's exactly what the Liberals just did with their stance so I should be allowed to do the same thing.


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## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I personally know a whistle blower who witnessed the collusion conversation between Biden and China, however, the source is confidential, but that shouldn't matter because just like in 2019 a President can be impeached with no damning evidence what so ever. Presidents can now be impeached simply because one side said the won an election. That's exactly what the Liberals just did and their stance so I should be allowed to do the same thing.


Wow, that's crazy! Again, can you provide me with any hard evidence of this clearly true accusation?


----------



## eyeball226 (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Right-wing extremism" was once considered centrism. The political compass as a whole is moving left.



Well duh, that's called progress and it's been happening for most of human existence. I mean, you're not wrong, but I'm honestly not sure it's making the point you intended it to make.

White supremacy used to be a mainstream "centrist" belief, it's now a far far right ideology. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I can only see it as a good thing that such things aren't considered centrism.

Perhaps rather than left and right, we should call them forward and backward...


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## ov3rkill (Nov 9, 2020)

The world was watching closely the US election. Let's just see what will come in the next 4 years.


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## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I personally know a whistle blower who witnessed the collusion conversation between Biden and China, however, the source is confidential, but that shouldn't matter because just like in 2019 a President can be impeached with no damning evidence what so ever. Presidents can now be impeached simply because one side said the won an election. That's exactly what the Liberals just did and their stance so I should be allowed to do the same thing.


 yea we all saw the call log where Putin call TRUUM....I mean china and Biden


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> I'm not going to cry over something so petty. Biden is simply not my President and never will be. He colluded with China to cheat in the 2020 election and needs to be impeached as soon as possible regardless if he's actually innocent or not.


Facts over feelings


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## Seliph (Nov 9, 2020)

Great to hear. Anyways I hate Biden lol


----------



## FredrickConnor (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Wow, that's crazy! Again, can you provide me with any hard evidence of this clearly true accusation?





GhostLatte said:


> Facts over feelings



Your side tried to pass off assumptions as factual material during Trump's planned impeachment trial and you also never had the whistle blower come forward. So we're going to impeach Biden regardless of guilt. Just like your side planned to do against Trump before he even took office.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Your side tried to pass off assumptions as factual material during Trump's planned impeachment trail and you also never had the whistle blower come forward. So we're going to impeach Biden regardless of guilt. Just like your side planned to do against Trump before he even took office.


Any hard evidence? Figure I should put that at the beginning of the comment since you might've just missed it in my first two comments. I believe in you, one day old account! I believe in your ability to track down that evidence. Just put your mind to it and you can do anything!


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## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

FredrickConnor said:


> Your side tried to pass off assumptions as factual material during Trump's planned impeachment trial and you also never had the whistle blower come forward. So we're going to impeach Biden regardless of guilt. Just like your side planned to do against Trump before he even took office.


yea liberals just tried to Impeached for no reason.. Its not like Trump publicly ask for help from a foreign country and a week later that country does the exact thing that Trump asked.. no that would be CRAZY!


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea liberals just tried to Impeached for no reason.. Its not like Trump publicly ask for help from a foreign country and a week later that country does the exact thing that Trump asked.. no that would be CRAZY!


He was impeached for proving that Hunter Biden was hired for a job that he wasn't qualified for simply because he's the son of former Vice President Joe Biden.


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## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> He was impeached for proving that Hunter Biden was hired for a job that he wasn't qualified for simply because he's the son of former Vice President Joe Biden.


 yea that a crime that Hunter using his fathers name..... The Trumps has better common sense... like Eric creating the Trump Foundation.. and its not like they even shifted millions of donations from St Judes Cancer research to other Trump Companies .. I mean other Trump charities ..no


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

"I'm sick and tired of smart guys"
*Crowd cheers*

Idiocracy 2.0



You all voted for a senile dementia 1 step from the nursing home President just because you hated the one we had who was anti establishment. Fuck the establishment.


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## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> He was impeached for proving that Hunter Biden was hired for a job that he wasn't qualified for simply because he's the son of former Vice President Joe Biden.


Fact check: This is not why Trump was impeached, and Hunter Biden wasn't hired for a job because he was the son of the Vice President.


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## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> "I'm sick and tired of smart guys"
> *Crowd cheers*
> 
> Idiocracy 2.0



that's quite possibly the most removed from context you could make a clip, 6 seconds might be a record


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## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> that's quite possibly the most removed from context you could make a clip, 6 seconds might be a record



Shutup it wouldn't matter if that clip was 3 hours you can't justify "I'm sick and tired of smart guys" He's been saying dumb shit for months I guess you don't even watch (not surprising you're not even from America and probably don't know what you're talking about)


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## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> "I'm sick and tired of smart guys"
> *Crowd cheers*
> 
> Idiocracy 2.0
> ...



Perhaps you should read or watch the whole speech.

Citing Trump’s contention that his federal tax payments have been low in many years because he’s “smart,” Biden sneered, “Well I’m sick and tired of smart guys, when they leave the rest of us to pick up the tab.”

Ironically, you're possibly the source of a hypothetical Idiocracy 2.0.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Shutup it wouldn't matter if that clip was 3 hours you can't justify "I'm sick and tired of smart guys" He's been saying dumb shit for months I guess you don't even watch (not surprising you're not even from America and probably don't know what you're talking about)


Check my post above for context.


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## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

He called Barack Obama "Barack America" So it's not even just recently that's he's lost it.


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## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You all voted for a senile dementia 1 step from the nursing home President just because you hated the one we had who was anti establishment. Fuck the establishment.



Yup thats a shame because if he was in a nursing home, we would not have to worry about Biden winning because Corona ravaged nursing house... Maybe thats why Trump allowed 250,000  Americans to die from corona... just in case they placed Biden there.. Smart!!!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


>



Do you think you're doing anything to help your cause? You're only making yourself seem foolish. A gaffe isn't disqualifying, Trump says far stupider things than Biden, Trump has the added dimension that he lies whenever he opens his mouth, and you're previous gaffe video wasn't a gaffe at all. If I were you, I'd remove some of my previous videos and comments out of embarrassment.


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## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yup thats a shame because if he was in a nursing home, we would not have to worry about him winning because Corona ravaged nursing house... Maybe thats why Trump allowed 250,000  Americans to die from corona... just in case they placed Biden there.. Smart!!!



Well it was Governor Cuomo idiot New York Governor who put coronavirus patients in the nursing homes. 

If Biden were President this year we would have had millions of deaths. He didn't want to close down China (because they're his business partner)


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> "I'm sick and tired of smart guys"
> *Crowd cheers*
> 
> Idiocracy 2.0
> ...



There's no evidence Biden has dementia, and you're video is edited to look like a gaffe when it's not one.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Shutup it wouldn't matter if that clip was 3 hours you can't justify "I'm sick and tired of smart guys" He's been saying dumb shit for months I guess you don't even watch (not surprising you're not even from America and probably don't know what you're talking about)


You know that's the symbol for antarctica right dumbass? Yeah I live in antarctica and don't know what I'm talking about. The full quote, by the way, is in reference to Trump saying that he pays $700 in taxes because he is 'smart.' Biden said "Well I'm sick and tired of smart guys, when they leave the rest of us to pick up the tab." Amazing how I was only able to find 6 second clips from most sources that posted this because they all don't care about what he actually said, they just care about getting a dunk on the libs.


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## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

"Poor kids are just as talented as white kids" -Future President Joe Biden


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## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Shutup it wouldn't matter if that clip was 3 hours you can't justify "I'm sick and tired of smart guys" He's been saying dumb shit for months I guess you don't even watch (not surprising you're not even from America and probably don't know what you're talking about)


 yay Biden says dumb shit.. he should know better....Trump has never EVER said stupid stuff. he know more then DRs ( ejects  bleach directly into viens) there soo much better.


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## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

Trigger Dems, then exit I've done my job you're a wonderful audience thank you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> yay Biden says dumb shit.. he should know better....Trump has never EVER said stupid stuff. he know more then DRs ( ejects  bleach directly into viens) there soo much better.



It's know better not no better, are you Hunter Biden?

Haha you edited your post.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trigger Dems, then exit I've done my job you're a wonderful audience thank you.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


It's hard to be triggered when you won't even respond to my rebuttals. It's also a sign of desperation when you respond to a person's grammar/spelling and not their content.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Well it was Governor Cuomo idiot New York Governor who put coronavirus patients in the nursing homes.
> 
> If Biden were President this year we would have had millions of deaths. He didn't want to close down China (because they're his business partner)


oh do get me started with the Cuomo family.. its soo truth... his brother going to all the nursing home around the midwest making sure people get the Corona !!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trigger Dems, then exit I've done my job you're a wonderful audience thank you.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


... Sir you have insult me heavily..  I come To GBATemp to have a meaningful Convo about all the great thing President Trump has done in 4 years and you insult my grammar..


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)




----------



## KingVamp (Nov 9, 2020)

Did he really say "Trigger Dems"? The pot is so black.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)




----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

Hilarious that the trump chumps here are talking about Biden making mistakes when Trump can't even spell coffee right. Anyone want a cup of Covfefe


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>


yes !! please let us fact check the ballots... in Philly, Atlanta. No Real American can believe that Minorities voted in record numbers.. but lets only check the places they voted ..no where else.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>


You cant fact check ballots.
Demanding 'mericans to fact check ballots is not a demand anyone is making.

Memes nowadays get designed, so they cant be refuted, because they are simply too stupid, making claims that in itself make no sense. Targeting mostly stupid people that are easier to turn to extremism.

Also Trump ordered a recount in one state, but sued in three, to get ballots thrown out uncounted - based on 'when they were counted'.


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## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> i mean, the covfefe joke is cringe, but that was way before covid happened so no



Either way it was a simple typo and the weakest dumbest memeing I have ever seen.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sure you can, you verify the voter was legitimate versus the ballot in a hand recount, this is why we have poll watchers.


 yea its not like there was a Republican and Democrats poll watcher in most places. I mean if you ignore the fact lot of polling places had cameras and a whole Bunch of people watching. just ignore that and we have no proof that the votes were real.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sure you can, you verify the voter was legitimate versus the ballot in a hand recount, this is why we have poll watchers.


Yeah, thats not called fact checking ballots.

Also thats no way to find voting fraud that would actually work.

Because:

1. Votes are anonymous while being cast, and once cast.
2. For something to go wrong there, you'd have to engage in personal ID fraud. Which is unbelievably hard to do for 20k+ people in four states.

3. The individual voter is checked, by representatives of both sides (afaik) against a voting registration list. After that the vote is not being able to be traced back to that person. In the mail voting scenario, thats what the outer envelope is for. Which gets separated, thereby breaking traceability by design. If that would not happen, voting would not be anonymous, which would be bad.
-

What you can do afterwards is
a. A recount. (Of anonymous votes)
b. A statistical sanity check, that may lead to a recount.
c. Analyse the voter registry lists, if they were 'sanitized' (f.e. black sounding names having been thrown out, or dead people not having been delisted).

How can you be that stupid, and that certain, of there being fraud in the air at the same time. You dont even understand how fraud would work. Or how recounts work. Or how the voting system works, or...

Believe me - when I tell you those extremist memes are targeted at stupid people. Because people managing those 'communities' dont want to deal with normal people getting in that scene blurting out every five minutes, what an absolute moronic nonsense they are seeing.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> That's not how you spell checked moron, I bet your fingers are like brautwurst.


I bet I'm not an english native an dont use that word that often.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> I bet I'm not an english native an dont use that word that often.



Yet your correcting a native english speaker on whether I was using fact checked reasonably, but thanks for letting me know you don't matter.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Yet your correcting a native english speaker on whether I was using fact checked reasonably, but thanks for letting me know you don't matter.


yea YOU tell them about how horrible his Spelling and Grammar is , (otherwise we don't have a real come back for those liberals)


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> I hope you’re crying in January when Biden is inaugurated.


He very well may become President, that doesn’t mean that allegations of impropriety shouldn’t be investigated, not saying the Republicans are perfect, for all I know both sides cheated
But right now the side that pushed for a new style of voting with fewer layers of security, has also appeared to have all these glitches and other potential impropriety’s in their favor, They have also trying to Been trying to be less transparent and trying to prevent the legal challenges which only delay them.

The sad thing is, delaying the investigations could have Biden lose the election regardless.
If the EC doesn’t Certify the results by December 14th in those swing states then it goes to the state legislatures which happened to lean Republican, And even if it got challenge there eventually would go to the Supreme Court which leans Republican.

so Trump could literally lose the election and because of democrat interference when it comes to the investigations become president again.
So if anything you should be pushing your side to hurry the investigations along,  Unless of course the Democrats actually do have things to hide which case keep doing what they’re doing and roll the dice.

that’s only one of the scenarios in which he can win assuming the lawsuits find nothing, of course if they find something that could also make it a win for Trump.

Another thing that could happen is faithless electors, if the electoral college electors for those states get convinced by the leaked Veritas videos or other news around all this they are legally allowed to vote their conscience so they could side with Trump even if Biden is the winner In those states.

Then there’s of course the most conspiratorial of the ways he could win, considering most of the left and said that he’s a dictator,  Hypothetically he could go and use presidential directive 51 stating the civil unrest and the pandemic as the reason and use his authority to reform the government.
 Don’t get me wrong I think that would never happen, it’s more likely that he would take the Loss Knowing that the Republicans are Most likely holding the Senate which means Biden won’t be able to get anything done then Trump would easily be able to run in 2024, Because let’s face it whether or not you believe in the dementia claims of the right for Biden, Trump feels much more spry for his age compared and if I had to pick one to still be functional in four years it would be him.

But yeah if all of those fail and if he isn’t the tyrant that the left make him out to be then of course by the January 20th deadline the presidency would fall to the speaker of the house.
Honestly I put that possibility only slightly More more likely than him reforming the government.

I wonder if you would be the one crying if he ends up winning a court victory back to the White House?
Really gets the noggin jogging


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> He very well may become President, that doesn’t mean that allegations of impropriety shouldn’t be investigated, not saying the Republicans are perfect, for all I know both sides cheated
> But right now the side that pushed for a new style of voting with fewer layers of security, has also appeared to have all these glitches and other potential impropriety’s in their favor, They have also trying to Been trying to be less transparent and trying to prevent the legal challenges which only delay them.
> 
> The sad thing is, delaying the investigations could have Biden lose the election regardless.
> ...


yea thank you lets find more ways to create a coup to stop liberal because we failed to prove voter fraud,

 sorry I mean in case we can't prove the voter fraud.. that exist in my gut.


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea thank you lets find more ways to create a coup to stop liberal because we failed to prove voter fraud,
> 
> sorry I mean in case we can't prove the voter fraud.. that exist in my gut.


I’m just saying, there are several legal avenues for him to win even if he loses.

I’m also saying that both sides should care about voter integrity,
 if all of the legal challenges fail, Biden wins then 71 million people don’t think that the election was stolen.

If any of the legal challenges do decide the fate of the election, both sides should want the legitimate winner to win.
The investigations could turn up impropriety on either side or both.

even if it does, it may find there wasn’t enough to swing any of the district in which case Biden wins and  Neither side feels cheated.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to investigate potential issues, the right to put up with the left’s unfounded Russian conspiracy theory for three years and it had less evidence than there currently is for potential voter impropriety.

it could be determined that all of these things are coincidences and could be explained away, like some of the regions with sharpie problems that aren’t actually problems, or the suspected dead voter that ended up being the son of that voter.

literally the only real reason to not want investigations is you’re worried they’ll find something and if it’s that then it’s not Trump that’s trying to perform a coup.


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> Yeah, thats not called fact checking ballots.
> 
> Also thats no way to find voting fraud that would actually work.
> 
> ...


Also, while we are at it, each precinct has a count of how many ballots were sent out per mail, and how many came back, so the idea that you can dump 120k votes from another state 'at a place' is prevented by said statistical sanity checks.

Thats not possible.

Also, you roughly know the statistical return rate on ballots sent out for mail voting. That helps as well.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> I’m just saying, there are several legal avenues for him to win even if he loses.
> 
> I’m also saying that both sides should care about voter integrity,
> if all of the legal challenges fail, Biden wins then 71 million people don’t think that the election was stolen.
> ...




 I agree with you.. The US has only being having Elections for over 250 year and we have yet to find any real voter fraud..
even Trump stated 6 million people illegal voters in 2016 and HE Personally made a Legal team to find it... the fact that that team has yet to come back with any info in 4 year... doesn't mean nothing. there bond to be some voter fraud otherwise how can Trump lose...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

so I'm misspoke... it looks like Trump disbanded the team from 2016 in 2018 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/politics/trump-voter-fraud-commission.html
 maybe that why there so much voter fraud this election..


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> I’m just saying, there are several legal avenues for him to win even if he loses.
> 
> I’m also saying that both sides should care about voter integrity,
> if all of the legal challenges fail, Biden wins then 71 million people don’t think that the election was stolen.
> ...



Understand that the left doesn't intend to govern through faith in the electoral process, that's why they are not interested in maintaining election integrity.  They think a bunch of beta soyboys are going to impose their will on people and the military is going to blindly enforce whatever they decide, they also are going to start importing third world replacement voters to swing states like they did in Minnesota and start displacing populations like China does in Tibet.   I am glad I don't live in a population center because anyone that thinks this is going to go smoothly is in for a violent awakening.


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## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I agree with you.. The US has only being having Elections for over 250 year and we have yet to find any real voter fraud..


Postmortems on previous Presidential elections have found voter fraud, just not on the scale large enough to change an outcome.

there’s also been fraud in smaller elections previously, such as primaries, city elections, county elections,even Senate and House races before.

so the claim there’s never been any real voter fraud is false.

But you could say there’s never been widespread voter fraud that is true,


it is also true that there  Is the possibility that their isn’t any voter fraud in this election and as I mentioned above it could be honest mistakes, glitches or just look bad without all the information etc.

but the only way to find all that out is for the legal battles to happen, it sounds like you’re in favor of them in which case there’s nothing to really debate about.

But until all challenges are decided and one of the outcomes takes place to certify the election Biden hasn’t won yet and Trump hasn’t lost


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Understand that the left doesn't intend to govern through faith in the electoral process, that's why they are not interested in maintaining election integrity.  They think a bunch of beta soyboys are going to impose their will on people and the military is going to blindly enforce whatever they decide, they also are going to start importing third world replacement voters to swing states like they did in Minnesota and start displacing populations like China does in Tibet.   I am glad I don't live in a population center because anyone that thinks this is going to go smoothly is in for a violent awakening.


yea ME and Jimbo are glad we don't live in culturally diverse areas.. Because WE need to heavily guard our xenophobic way to make sure "THEM" don't take over


----------



## Xzi (Nov 9, 2020)

Can't believe this thread is still going.  Y'all are still gonna be whining about how Trump was cheated during the 2032 election, aren't you?

Anyway, I've had more than my fair share of laughs by now, but here's a piece of advice: the longer you wait to truly accept your loss, the more painful it's gonna be.  "Facts don't care about your feelings," as it were.


----------



## smf (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Entirely slanderous hyperbolic opinion,



It was in the US/UK trade negotiations, they wanted everyone getting such good prices from US drug companies.

What Trump says he is doing and what he does are two entirely different things.



dude1 said:


> that doesn’t mean that allegations of impropriety shouldn’t be investigated,



He claimed there was fraud before the election happened & he claimed victory before the counting was finished.

So forgive everyone who doesn't believe a word he says, because his actions makes him seem incapable of telling the truth.



notimp said:


> How about the claim, that there has never been any statistically relevant attempt at large scale voting fraud, that anyone is aware of?



I think that is probably true. Large scale fraud would require a lot of people and the more people that know about fraud, the more likely someone gets upset and rats you out. So if we haven't heard about it then it's probably so small that it's irrelevant.

Trump is obsessed with voter fraud, he claimed that millions of illegal immigrants sneaked in and voted for hilary in 2016. Guilty people always think others do the same thing as them....


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> so the claim there’s never been any real voter fraud is false.


How about the claim, that there has never been any statistically relevant attempt at large scale voting fraud, that anyone is aware of?

Well - after the times, where votes were simply bought by your workplace/union/mob affiliate. In the before times in the US. 
edit2: Removed bad example.
Better one:
Dang wrong country, still searching.

edit 3: Here roughly this:
https://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/...le.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2656&context=llr

But in modern history, voting 'like your job place would want you to' has become far less of a thing. 

edit 4: And of course, this - also has become less of a thing:  (Why its better that voting is now 'secret - and done in a public place'.  )
http://sociallogic.iath.virginia.edu/node/192


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

smf said:


> Trump is obsessed with voter fraud, he claimed that millions of illegal immigrants sneaked in and voted for hilary in 2016. Guilty people always think others do the same thing as them....



It doesn't matter what he says. There's either voter fraud or there isn't. It will be proven before the courts now do I trust the system to overturn it for Trump even when the evidence comes out no I do not. But you Dems are always focusing on the wrong thing you don't care about the truth it's always "but Trump said this" deflecting deflecting deflecting.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> How about the claim, that there has never been any statistically relevant attempt at large scale voting fraud, that anyone is aware of?
> 
> Well - after the times, where votes were simply bought by your workplace/union/mob affiliate. In the before times in the US.
> edit2: Removed bad example.
> ...


alright just remove emoticons from the site entirely chuckles here cant handle them


----------



## notimp (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> alright just remove emoticons from the site entirely chuckles here cant handle them


Come on I dug up the most illustrious examples of voting fraud in the US, prior to having the current system. That should  be worth more, than a flimsy discussion about the use of emoticons.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It doesn't matter what he says. There's either voter fraud or there isn't. It will be proven before the courts now do I trust the system to overturn it for Trump even when the evidence comes out no I do not. But you Dems are always focusing on the wrong thing you don't care about the truth it's always "but Trump said this" deflecting deflecting deflecting.


yes Please we need to double check the vote. because its like Christmas traditions.. for over 250 year the losing side makes outlandish claim without merit and force a mistrust to delay the results..
I warmly remember the year Roosevelt claim the other side brought millions of illegal I-talans to vote,, ahh the good old days


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 9, 2020)

I guarantee even if's proven without a shadow of a doubt there was voter fraud Democrats will not admit it's wrong or even bat an eye. Because you have no morals.

Your hate for Trump who was trying to destroy the establishment which is a good thing for both sides has blinded you.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I guarantee even if's proven without a shadow of a doubt there was voter fraud Democrats will not admit it's wrong or even bat an eye. Because you have no morals.
> 
> Your hate for Trump who was trying to destroy the establishment has blinded you.


 yea, there is no doubt the liberal did fraud... There no way the Trump lose, its not like record number of minorities voted..


----------



## Xzi (Nov 9, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It doesn't matter what he says. There's either voter fraud or there isn't. It will be proven before the courts now do I trust the system to overturn it for Trump even when the evidence comes out no I do not. But you Dems are always focusing on the wrong thing you don't care about the truth it's always "but Trump said this" deflecting deflecting deflecting.


If it helps for me to dispel a bit of misinformation, I believe Trump is 0 for 9 on election court challenges so far (there might've been even more failures by now, I'm not sure).  There simply isn't any evidence or they would've supplied it by now.  There are between 6-10 instances of known voter fraud in this election, most of whom are Trump supporters.



djpannda said:


> yes Please we need to double check the vote. because its like Christmas traditions.. for over 250 year the losing side makes outlandish claim without merit and force a mistrust to delay the results..
> I warmly remember the year Roosevelt claim the other side brought millions of illegal I-talans to vote,, ahh the good old days


There will be recounts, but in certain states the Trump campaign would have to pay out of pocket for them, and Trump is likely to try to keep as much campaign cash for himself as possible in order to facilitate his legal defense as a citizen.



djpannda said:


> yea, there is no doubt the liberal did fraud... There no way the Trump lose, its not like record number of minorities voted..


Okay this reads like satire LMAO.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

notimp said:


> Come on I dug up the most illustrious examples of voting fraud in the US, prior to having the current system. That should  be worth more, than a flimsy discussion about the use of emoticons.


oh your post is fine the way you type is just incredibly annoying

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Okay this reads like satire LMAO.


it is


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Can't believe this thread is still going.  Y'all are still gonna be whining about how Trump was cheated during the 2032 election, aren't you?
> 
> Anyway, I've had my more than my fair share of laughs by now, but here's a piece of advice: the longer you wait to truly accept your loss, the more painful it's gonna be.  "Facts don't care about your feelings," as it were.




Why are you against either side looking into potential voter impropriety?

What is with the rush to judgment?

 The Florida gore 2000 election issue took 37 to 38 days to call correctly that was one state with less evidence than there currently is for multiple states.
Up until that was investigated just like now the media called it for Gore,

it is true after all is said and done Trump may lose and I think most people on his side won’t cry if it’s proven that he did.
for the same reason there weren’t many flip outs election night, unlike 2016 for the left.

But To quote you and Shapiro Facts don’t care about your feelings

Currently the fact is:
no one has won or loss and we won’t know until the electoral college certifies enough votes to have someone win.
It could be Biden it could be Trump.

Hubris could be your sides downfall, I wonder what sides going to feel pain then?
Because let’s be real,  let’s say one way or another Biden actually wins, assuming the Senate doesn’t flip which at this point it doesn’t look like it will.

Very little could get functionally done under a Biden presidency, which wont look good for him in 2024 and the rubber band effect could mean you end up with someone worse than Trump then.

Not to mention, so far you’ve lost house seats, then there’s all the judicial appointees etc. I feel like most of the left isn’t looking at the big picture and seeing even if the right looses  they have already and are setting themselves up for big wins in the not so distant future.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> Why are you against either side looking into potential voter impropriety?
> 
> What is with the rush to judgment?
> 
> ...


yes we need to stop rushing the Voting process.   Liberal like to think because we don't have any Real Proof of Fraud right now, that we have to accept the vote... PLEASE ITS not like we have to Show any proof in court.. just take my word for it ..*Respect My Authoritah (South Park style)*


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

smf said:


> He claimed there was fraud before the election happened & he claimed victory before the counting was finished.



Because there was fraud before the election, people were very vocal they were not comfortable and did not trust mail-in ballots being rolled out 3 months before a election outside of the process's normally used to establish election procedures.  

These were unilateral decisions in most cases by AG, state senates are supposed to establish election protocol.

There was outcry all over the country prior to election that people did not trust the integrity of the election of the process's being changed last minute with no oversight, faith in the electoral process is more important than partisan not giving a fuck.  Perception is reality, semantics aside the electoral system is now broken and you have 70-100 million Americans that does not accept the governance of Joe Biden.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes we need to stop rushing the Voting process.   Liberal like to think because we don't have any Real Proof of Fraud right now, that we have to accept the vote... PLEASE ITS not like we have to Show any proof in court.. just take my word for it ..*Respect My Authoritah (South Park style)*


nobody's arguing that you can't sue in court, but anyone with a brain can see they're all frivolous lawsuits with no basis that are merely being argued for the sake of political gains


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> nobody's arguing that you can't sue in court, but anyone with a brain can see they're all frivolous lawsuits with no basis that are merely being argued for the sake of political gains



Democrats made partisan unilateral decisions to election protocols and procedures in the midst of a pandemic, despite vocal objections.  So now that people don't trust the result, look in the mirror.  You were warned. You broke it,  You bought it and it's not going to payout what you are hoping for.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Democrats made partisan unilateral decisions to election protocols and procedures in the midst of a pandemic, despite vocal objections.  So now that people don't trust the result, look in the mirror.  You were warned. You broke it,  You bought it and it's not going to payout what you are hoping for.


no election security protocols were loosened


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> nobody's arguing that you can't sue in court, but anyone with a brain can see they're all frivolous lawsuits with no basis that are merely being argued for the sake of political gains


If that’s the case the cases will be decided in Biden‘s favor and he becomes president.

Unless of course the left continues to try to block the lawsuits in which case there’s a timer where Trump can get a victory without a victory.
(While I think His most ardent supporters will be OK with him winning a victory that way, I think a large portion of the 71 million That voted for him would feel scummy if they won, not because their side actually won the vote but because the opposing team was unwilling to be transparent and go through the official processes for election disputes To their own detriment, being so shortsighted that they didn’t realize that those themselves are a couple of the ways they can lose)

so it’s in the left’s best interest to play ball, unless they are hiding something.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Democrats made partisan unilateral decisions to election protocols and procedures in the midst of a pandemic, despite vocal objections.  So now that people don't trust the result, look in the mirror.  You were warned. You broke it,  You bought it and it's not going to payout what you are hoping for.


YUP darn DEMO-Crats.. they have been controlling Georgia and Arizona for all these years.. with the senate and house and Governors.. I mean they even tricked us by having Republicans names tag too!!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

A world without faces isn't a world worth living in. (No, I'm not committing suicide, but many people probably will.)


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> Unless of course the left continues to try to block the lawsuits in which case there’s a timer where Trump can get a victory without a victory.
> (.


Yea the left keeps blocking the lawsuits by having them go to court and have them be thrown out by Republican Judge for not have proof.. STOP BLOCKING LAWSUIT BY WINNING THEM!!!


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> no election security protocols were loosened



Incorrect.
Some states had universal mail in ballots.
(E.g. An unsolicited Ballot gets sent to your last known address, unlike absentee you don’t need to verify anything or request it manually)
That in itself is a loosened security protocol.

Not to mention all the other potential legal arguments about ballot counters etc.

Not saying they are going to win, but just like any other person they’re allowed to day in court If they think it’s worthwhile to try.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> Incorrect.
> Some states had universal mail in ballots.
> (E.g. An unsolicited Ballot gets sent to your last known address, unlike absentee you don’t need to verify anything or request it manually)
> That in itself is a loosened security protocol.
> ...


Just because Its made up Does not mean its not worthwhile
 I remember when I went to court because I thought the mail man was stealing my mail.. I mean the fact I did not see or have any proof it did not matter... heck the fact that I didn't even live at the locate did not stop me ..ITs an American right to bring up frivolous lawsuit !!


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yea the left keeps blocking the lawsuits by having them go to court and have them be thrown out by Republican Judge for not have proof.. STOP BLOCKING LAWSUIT BY WINNING THEM!!!


You’re assuming it’s a Republican judge that would look at it, you’re also assuming that judge can’t be impartial.

but once again just to play devils advocate
let’s play your game, and the democrats obstruct for as long as they can, then they missed the EC deadline it goes to house delegations that lien Republican and they’re more likely to lose their then in court.

Even if at that point, let’s say the Democrats finally decide it’s worthwhile to fight, great it goes to the Supreme Court which liens Republican.
Then you have to remember Biden and Harris I have had personal spats  with two of the supreme court justices, So if you thought they weren’t going to be impartial because they’re on the opposing political spectrum, then you must believe they’re gonna be extra likely to fall on party lines for that.

your best point at that level is the Supreme Court abstaining to rule on the matter in which case, The house speaker becomes acting president.
But considering your thinking lower judges can’t be impartial I don’t see why you think the Supreme Court justices would be any better.

I guess basically what I’m saying is, your best chance for Trump to finally lose is for each case to go to court and be struck down due to lack of evidence.
Now assuming you can run through the same logical conclusions,  the only reason I can see you being against that Is if you think that there will be enough evidence for Trump to win those cases or at least enough cases to matter.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> You’re assuming it’s a Republican judge that would look at it, you’re also assuming that judge can’t be impartial.
> 
> but once again just to play devils advocate
> let’s play your game, and the democrats obstruct for as long as they can, then they missed the EC deadline it goes to house delegations that lien Republican and they’re more likely to lose their then in court.
> ...


yah its not like there hasn't been already several lawsuit already throw out in Georgia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...-third-battleground-state-lawsuit-of-the-day/


----------



## Xzi (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> Why are you against either side looking into potential voter impropriety?


I'm not against that.  They can take all the time they want with recounts, and the court challenges are all being thrown out.  At the end of the day, the results are not going to change.  Recounts can change up to 1000 votes max (more likely around 500), and no state is going to finish their count with that close of a margin remaining.  Again: the sooner you accept that, the easier it'll be on you.



dude1 said:


> Because let’s be real, let’s say one way or another Biden actually wins, assuming the Senate doesn’t flip which at this point it doesn’t look like it will.


It's going to come down the GA runoffs, but yes, there's a real possibility that Republicans could maintain control of the Senate and make the whole country suffer by stonewalling all legislation (including stimulus/relief checks).  Just as there was a real possibility of Trump winning this election.  OTOH, there's also a pretty big spark of hope in the runoffs for Dems, as it looks like GA will go blue in the general eventually (just to run up Biden's score further).



dude1 said:


> rubber band effect could mean you end up with someone worse than Trump then


This is also a possibility I've considered...but such a person would have to be incredibly subtle and subversive while simultaneously channeling Trump's overt racism and WWE-style showmanship enough to attract his base.  I just don't currently see anybody in the Republican party who can walk that razor's edge, Tucker Carlson is the most common name I've heard mentioned for heir apparent LMAO.  Should such a person come along in the next four years though, I'll recognize him pretty quick and GTFO of the US.  If I'm gonna interact with the fourth reich, it'll be shooting at them as a citizen of another country.



dude1 said:


> Not to mention, so far you’ve lost house seats, then there’s all the judicial appointees etc.


Yes, I'm sure Trump judges will be as regressive as they possibly can within their limited role.  But I'd also bet on a number of them losing their seats to misconduct; McConnell went for quantity, not quality.  The House seats don't really matter, and every pro-M4A Democrat won their seat back.  Meaning that if Biden does keep his promise to move the party a bit further left by the end of his term, Dems will continue to win on a platform of healthcare for all, criminal justice reform (including legal weed), climate change, et al.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

dude1 said:


> Incorrect.
> Some states had universal mail in ballots.
> (E.g. An unsolicited Ballot gets sent to your last known address, unlike absentee you don’t need to verify anything or request it manually)
> That in itself is a loosened security protocol.
> ...


universal mail in ballots aren't secure, they don't just accept every ballot without checking anything


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 9, 2020)

I think no one has a problem with investigating fraud. I would not. But i see no substance for the claims from the republicans. As i mentioned earlier isolated cases of fraud happen in every election and they are not relevant for the outcome. All poll watchers so far including republican and international ones have not noticed any large scale fraud attempts and if there would be any large scale fraud going on it would have been detected due to strict checks.

So as it stands the claims are standing on hair thin ice made of conspiracies.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 9, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Okay this reads like satire LMAO.


I don't blame you for not being sure, considering some of the other posts in this thread.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

Why the US Govt Demanded In-Person voting in Iraq & European countries don't vote by mail.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 9, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> I don't blame you for not being sure, considering some of the other posts in this thread.


Yeah I hadn't closely read any of djpannda's posts up to that point rofl.


----------



## dude1 (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> universal mail in ballots aren't secure, they don't just accept every ballot without checking anything


They may not be insecure, but they’re more likely to be insecure and some of the Trump teams legal arguments will stem from potential issues, it may be a nothing burger it may not be but that’s for the courts to decide based on evidence one way or the other.
Heck some of the ballot complaints might not even need to go to court if re-counts are called and are treated fairly.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

Why the US Govt Demanded In-Person voting in Iraq & European countries don't vote by mail. 
 I fix the link try it now

edit:  link did not work ...guess those DEMO-crate are censor me because I know too much.. aliens and such...


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 9, 2020)

problem is would trump go off the deep end so much to kill US citizens via his pal putin? remember 2 months could make us go down the shit chute so fast they say he has some powers stripped like declaring war true he can't do it himself as biden is president elect but one phone call to his Master can start a war


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Why the US Govt Demanded In-Person voting in Iraq & European countries don't vote by mail.


Just gonna leave this here 

Over the past 20 years, about 250 million votes have been cast by a mail ballot nationally," Amber McReynolds, CEO of the National Vote at Home Institute, and Charles Steward III, director of the MIT Election Data and Science Lab, wrote in a recent op-ed for The Hill.

They continue: "One hundred forty-three cases of fraud using mailed ballots over the course of 20 years comes out to seven to eight cases per year, nationally. It also means that across the 50 states, there has been an average of three cases per state over the 20-year span. That is just one case per state every six or seven years. We are talking about an occurrence that translates to about 0.00006 percent of total votes cast."


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 9, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> problem is would trump go off the deep end so much to kill US citizens via his pal putin? remember 2 months could make us go down the shit chute so fast they say he has some powers stripped like declaring war true he can't do it himself as biden is president elect but one phone call to his Master can start a war



Any unilateral military action Trump could take before the election he still has the authority to do so now, "President elect" is not a actual position it is a media marketing buzzword. Second the Russia-gate hoax has been entirely disproven, third any violence stemming from this sElection will be from Americans, because Democrats undermined our electoral process despite objections prior to the balloting.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Any unilateral military action Trump could take before the election he still has the authority to do so now, "President elect" is not a actual position it is a media marketing buzzword. Second the Russia-gate hoax has been entirely disproven, third any violence stemming from this sElection will be from Americans, because Democrats undermined our electoral process despite objections prior to the balloting.


yea we have To stop the liberals, With military power if we need to, it does not matter that Millions of people voted for BIden over Trump, or the fact of using COMPLETE  Military force on US citizen  on US Soil is illegal.. "POSSE COMITUAUS ACT"

Things like that dont matter to Real Americans!!!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 9, 2020)

linuxares said:


> In this topic, people who are happy for Biden and conspiracy nuts.
> 
> Got to love this unstable democracy the US got.



I find the term "conspiracy nuts" to be insincere, or maybe lacking introspection, because that includes everyone.  You either believe the news and the conspiracies that they say are happening, or you don't believe the news because they are apart of a conspiracy.  Nobody is rationally saying there is no conspiracy, without believing that there is one, themselves.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 9, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Just gonna leave this here
> 
> Over the past 20 years, about 250 million votes have been cast by a mail ballot nationally," Amber McReynolds, CEO of the National Vote at Home Institute, and Charles Steward III, director of the MIT Election Data and Science Lab, wrote in a recent op-ed for The Hill.
> 
> They continue: "One hundred forty-three cases of fraud using mailed ballots over the course of 20 years comes out to seven to eight cases per year, nationally. It also means that across the 50 states, there has been an average of three cases per state over the 20-year span. That is just one case per state every six or seven years. We are talking about an occurrence that translates to about 0.00006 percent of total votes cast."


1. Cases != ballots. One case could represent multiple ballots.
2. Is "it's not 0, so it's not good enough" an argument against COVID cases, or voter fraud cases?


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 9, 2020)

I like MAGA now.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1. Cases != ballots. One case could represent multiple ballots.
> 2. Is "it's not 0, so it's not good enough" an argument against COVID cases, or voter fraud cases?


You clearly never read the article I linked to otherwise you wouldn't be asking these stupid questions


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1. Cases != ballots. One case could represent multiple ballots.
> 2. Is "it's not 0, so it's not good enough" an argument against COVID cases, or voter fraud cases?



yea all we need to 1 case of voter fraud to justify throwing out 75 million voters ...
The left is silly they think that just because 250,00 people have died  and a record setting amount over thousand of people get CORONA a day now. just because of that... they think corona is a problem.... Didn't they listen to Trump. WE Just have to live with it" I mean there's absolutely nothing we can do bout CORONA... its not like DR have been telling us social distancing use Masks and avoid larges group. That ridiculous.. TRYING to teach us how statics work.. weirdos!!


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 9, 2020)

Why celebrate when the battle is far from over? The election has yet to be called. And then we will see the true victor.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Why celebrate when the battle is far from over? The election has yet to be called. And then we will see the true victor.


cope


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Why celebrate when the battle is far from over? The election has yet to be called. And then we will see the true victor.


YEA!!! the battle is not over.. The fact that Biden already won the Popular and Electoral votes  means nothing!!! the fact that no real creditable proof of voter fraud has been reported in almost a week from the Elections. That does not mean you get to ignore my wildly false and frivolous complaints


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 9, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> cope


Do you always trust the media like a blind fool?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Do you always trust the media like a blind fool?


yea these Liberal fool, believing source backed News... LOSER they are not like me and Kageninja We get all important news from facebook and Instagram memes!!


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Do you always trust the media like a blind fool?


cope


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Why celebrate when the battle is far from over? The election has yet to be called. And then we will see the true victor.


Joe Biden is going to be the next president of the United States.


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 9, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Joe Biden is going to be the next president of the United States.


That is what people say, but how can people know when the election has yet to be called.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> That is what people say, but how can people know when the election has yet to be called.


Because we know how enough states have voted.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> That is what people say, but how can people know when the election has yet to be called.


it has been called and looking at data like i did continuously while the election was happening trump has no chance of overcoming biden's lead


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> That is what people say, but how can people know when the election has yet to be called.


Liberal making assumption because Biden won the Popular and Electoral votes.. They don't seem to understand how Elections work!!


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 9, 2020)

Where have you heard of this?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Where have you heard of this?


It is not mathematically possible for Donald Trump to overtake Biden in the popular vote counts of a number of states totaling 270+ electoral votes. Joe Biden is the presumptive president-elect. It's over.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Where have you heard of this?


. . . you live under a rock or sumn? check every news network, the associated press, etc.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Where have you heard of this?


yea what News Source are liberal looking at... I mean if you don't pay attention to abc, nbc, Fox News, CBS, CNN, AP, and about 99% of new sources. I mean if you don't look at that.. no-one is claiming Biden won


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 9, 2020)

Bidens lead is too big to overcome it in several states even if all remaining ballots magically happened to be red. Thinking this isn't over is wishful thinking.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 9, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> That is what people say, but how can people know when the election has yet to be called.


Literally every network/news outlet (including Fox) has called it.  Biden has like three more states than he needs to hit 270.  Matter of fact, he'll probably end up at 306, same as Trump's total in 2016.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Literally every network/news outlet (including Fox) has called it.  Biden has like three more states than he needs to hit 270.  Matter of fact, he'll probably end up at 306, same as Trump's total in 2016.


Gore was the president of 2000.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Gore was the president of 2000.


lol I remember that.. BUSH was screaming about illegal votes he was acting a fool.. wait didn't  he?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol I remember that.. BUSH was screaming about illegal votes he was acting a fool.. wait didn't  he?


I mean I wasn't born so God knows.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Gore was the president of 2000.


The margin is nowhere near as close and doesn't hinge on a single state like bush v gore


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> The margin is nowhere near as close and doesn't hinge on a single state like bush v gore


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233356


a recount has never flipped more than 300 votes and those other states are just patently wrong


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I mean I wasn't born so God knows.


yah the year 2000 was weird and mysterious.. its not like a quick google search can provide all the info.. no thats too hard for us Underage Republican trolls!!


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> a recount has never flipped more than 300 votes and those other states are just patently wrong


cope


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> cope


how


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Georgia Election Official: "We are going to find that people did illegally vote. That's going to happen. There are going to be double voters...That will be found."https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1325878377568493568?s=20


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

eww twitter is sooo 2016 for News.. I use my racist uncle BOB for all the important info now.. I mean while he's awake and not to drunk..


----------



## brickmii82 (Nov 10, 2020)

Iirc Bush won initially and Gore challenged Florida results but it was still upheld after recounts. The Supreme Court ended the recounts.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Georgia Election Official: "We are going to find that people did illegally vote. That's going to happen. There are going to be double voters...That will be found."https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1325878377568493568?s=20


Keep being delusional, my friend. Let's ignore Trump actually did cheat to get Florida. Oh well. Also, there's this.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...vania-from-certifying-biden-win-idUSKBN27P30F

Yeah, let's just ban democracy. How any of you people can call yourselves American or patriotic is just laughable. Get out of this country if you literally want to destroy the very foundation of it. Sorry, Trump lost fair and square. Maybe you morons shouldn't have believed him when he told you not to vote by mail. That really bit him in the ass, huh?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

The greatest journalist of our lifetimes once said... "Well that escalated quickly...."


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> "I'm sick and tired of smart guys"
> *Crowd cheers*
> 
> Idiocracy 2.0
> ...



Calling a man who was quite literally the establishment until a few days ago and had his entire career supported by the establishment "anti-establishment" is pretty ironic in my opinion


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The greatest journalist of our lifetimes once said... "Well that escalated quickly...."


This is old news, dork. It's already been thrown out.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...-michigan-lawsuit-appeal-election/6222914002/

Woopsie, they failed to provide any evidence. Also, I guess I need to repost this since you keep spreading disingenuous misinformation.
1/ ALRIGHT Y'ALL. ELECTION FRAUD DEBUNKING MEGA THREAD. I’m following claims of fraud and looking into them. I think I’ve solved most now. Nothing is holding up under any scrutiny so far so I’m making a thread to track in one place. Please RT! #ElectionResults2020 #Election2020— Isaac Saul (@Ike_Saul) November 5, 2020


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Calling a man who was quite literally the establishment until a few days ago and had his entire career supported by the establishment "anti-establishment" is pretty ironic in my opinion



Think what you want of him he has been trying to drain the swamp. Which are corrupt politicians interfering and they're on both sides. I believe more so than Obama, Bush or Clinton he was trying to do right by the people of America and not just be a politician that goes along with things that aren't even good for our country. This is most likely why even Republicans like Romney and Bush are congratulating Biden, they're part of the swamp too.

Did you ever think for a second that some of the things said about him are lies? Or you could just be the typical liberal believing everything CNN says. They've been caught saying they created the Trump monster admitting they lied about him just to turn people against him. Trump was a Democrat 3 times if he was a Democrat as President you all would be kissing his butt like you are senile Biden right now.

Trump is not part of the establishment, Biden defintely is. They've all sold out this country for monetary gains, Trump couldn't be bought. I don't expect anyone especially a Liberal to believe what I'm saying, but maybe one day you'll see or if not oh well just stay asleep.

I'm not putting you down for your choices but I see there's a gender issue with you so there's zero chance you would ever believe anything that goes against the Democrats and pro Republicans I understand this. Trump fought the Republicans many times as much as the Democrats. I have to give it to the Democrats though, they did a fantastic job of demonizing the man. Some people would probably try to kill him if they saw him that's how much they hate him. I admit he's an asshole, but he's a strong leader unlike Biden and our country needs strong leadership not a puppet President which there's no doubt Biden is, he'll be lucky to finish his 4 years as President.

From my view I want someone who is willing to stand up to other countries not bow down to them and give them whatever they want. Obama/Clinton/Biden all known for this.

Trump could not be bought and that's why the media and Democrats did everything in their power including rigging the election to get him out. They were successful to their credit. Trump did to do things his own way and be anti-establisment, and that is why he was vilified like no one else.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Think what you want of him he has been trying to drain the swamp.


This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He is the swamp.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> he was trying to do right by the people of America


238,000 COVID deaths because he refused to do anything about it. There's also the thousands who have ended up homeless and starving because of this. Yeah, he really cares about the American people and not just serving his own interests along with the billionaires he helps out. Yeah, he's soooo anti-establishment.



Why are so many of you this delusional? How many more have to die and lose everything before you stop believing this lunacy?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He is the swamp.
> 
> 238,000 COVID deaths because he refused to do anything about it. There's also the thousands who have ended up homeless and starving because of this. Yeah, he really cares about the American people and not just serving his own interests along with the billionaires he helps out. Yeah, he's soooo anti-establishment.
> 
> ...



We will stop believe in Trump when we all are dead


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> We will stop believe in Trump when we all are dead


Fair point. +1


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Think what you want of him he has been trying to drain the swamp. Which are corrupt politicians interfering and they're on both sides. I believe more so than Obama, Bush or Clinton he was trying to do right by the people of America and not just be a politician that goes along with things that aren't even good for our country. This is most likely why even Republicans like Romney and Bush are congratulating Biden, they're part of the swamp too.
> 
> Did you ever think for a second that some of the things said about him are lies? Or you could just be the typical liberal believing everything CNN says. They've been caught saying they created the Trump monster admitting they lied about him just to turn people against him. Trump was a Democrat 3 times if he was a Democrat as President you all would be kissing his butt like you are senile Biden right now.


The establishment isn't just some corrupt politicians, it's the Capitalist hegemony that supports those politicians as well. The whole hegemony is the swamp, including Trump and Biden, not just some politicians that the GOP and their lobbyists tell you not to like.

Trump was absolutely a bastard, and in reality, likely much worse than CNN portrays him. Biden is also an absolute bastard, and in reality is also likely much worse than CNN portrays him.

In conclusion, of course, Trump was pro-establishment seeing as he is a part of that establishment just like every other politician or bourgeoise billionaire. To suggest otherwise is delusional




ForgotWhoIam said:


> zero chance you would ever believe anything that goes against the Democrats and pro Republicans I understand this.


Dude fuck Democrats I hate em.

Also not surprising that you're a transphobe. Very epic and shocking. Typical conservatives and their identity politics


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Calling a man who was quite literally the establishment until a few days ago and had his entire career supported by the establishment "anti-establishment" is pretty ironic in my opinion



I accidently liked this thinking you were talking about Biden, Trump had no establishment support, they did everything they could to stop Trump.  The only difference between Bernie sanders & Trumps campaign was the left succeeded in rigging their process.               

Johnny Rotten has literally been the epitome of anti-establishment longer than you have been alive.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> The establishment isn't just some corrupt politicians, it's the Capitalist hegemony that supports those politicians as well. The whole hegemony is the swamp, including Trump and Biden, not just some politicians that the GOP and their lobbyists tell you not to like.
> 
> Trump was absolutely a bastard, and in reality, likely much worse than CNN portrays him. Biden is also an absolute bastard, and in reality is also likely much worse than CNN portrays him.
> 
> ...



Jesus christ the crazy bells are going off. I didn't say anything bad about you being transgender except I don't believe you'd support a Republican, because I've never seen that happen in my entire life. How is that bad am I wrong do you support Republicans? If not, you're way out of line.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Johnny Rotten has literally been the epitome of anti-establishment longer than you have been alive.


Lol Johnny Rotten is a washed-up hack. He may have been anti-establishment at one point but not anymore. It's sad, a lot of old punk acts have either gone totally lib or totally conservative and Johnny is no exception.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>



Oh my God, someone actually unironically calling the Republican party the new punk. You know this is a fucking meme, right? Holy shit, you're dense.


Seliph said:


> Dude fuck Democrats I hate em.


Sad how conservatives only think in black and white, right? They're incapable of understanding that you can be a leftist and not be a Democrat or a liberal. It just doesn't compute for some reason.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Jesus christ the crazy bells are going off. I didn't say anything bad about you being transgender except I don't believe you'd support a Republican, because I've never seen that happen in my entire life. How is that bad am I wrong do you support Republicans? If not, you're way out of line.


Bro that must be your own crazy bells going off, you better go check em if you're that lacking in self-awareness. The fact that you have to bring up my gender identity despite it being entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand shows your transphobia. Also, I absolutely don't support Republicans, I'm an anarchist.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Jesus christ the crazy bells are going off. I didn't say anything bad about you being transgender except I don't believe you'd support a Republican, because I've never seen that happen in my entire life. How is that bad am I wrong do you support Republicans? If not, you're way out of line.



Winstons old speak dictionary defines transphobic as someone who doesn't feel obligated to play along with obvious mental illness, I wouldn't let it bother you. Refusing to suck a penis and pretend it is a vagina is considered transphobic by commie millennials.  Just need to stop considering nonsense as reasonable.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Lol Johnny Rotten is a washed-up hack. He may have been anti-establishment at one point but not anymore. It's sad, a lot of old punk acts have either gone totally lib or totally conservative and Johnny is no exception.



He's awake unlike most of you. 

I don't necessarily trust a lot of Republicans either, but I think Trump was trying to get rid of the corruption in our Government, was vilified for it.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> He's awake unlike most of you.
> 
> I don't necessarily trust a lot of Republicans either, but I think Trump was trying to get rid of the corruption in our Government, was vilified for it.



Same here, the only Republicans I've ever voted for are Trump & Ron Paul, i've voted for way more third party candidates and libs than GOP.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> He's awake unlike most of you.
> 
> I don't necessarily trust a lot of Republicans either, but I think Trump was trying to get rid of the corruption in our Government, was vilified for it.


Trump was a symptom of the corruption in the government, not the cure. In my opinion, the only cure is revolution but that seems too scary for most establishment types like Trump seeing how much his police beat down any sort of protest.



jimbo13 said:


> Winstons old speak dictionary defines transphobic as someone who doesn't feel obligated to play along with obvious mental illness, I wouldn't let it bother you. Refusing to suck a penis and pretend it is a vagina is considered transphobic by commie millennials.  Just need to stop considering nonsense as reasonable.


God, you're boring, I feel sorry for your parents.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

Johnny Rotten has a weird history of supporting whatever politician is hated at the time. Like when Nigel Farage for a while was the most hated politician here in Britain and Johnny suddenly became his best friend even though everything Farage believed in was the opposite of Rottens previous beliefs. Then when Farage disappeared Johnny boy abandoned him and moved to suddenly supporting Trump ect ect. He has been doing this bizarre practice all the way back to the early 80s of supporting whoever is hated at the time then when nobody cares about that person he finds some other  hated person to like. Its all very strange.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Winstons old speak dictionary defines transphobic as someone who doesn't feel obligated to play along with obvious mental illness, I wouldn't let it bother you. Refusing to suck a penis and pretend it is a vagina is considered transphobic by commie millennials.  Just need to stop considering nonsense as reasonable.


Hahahahaha! Oh man, the insecurity levels are off the FUCKING charts here. How long's it been since you got a good sucking? You reek of blue sack, dude. "How dare those blue hairs get laid more than I do! It's not fair! I should have say so over who gets fucked, especially if I'm not!" Christ, can you express how fragile you are any harder?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Same here, the only Republicans I've ever voted for are Trump & Ron Paul, i've voted for way more third party candidates and libs than GOP.



Yeah I think Ron Paul would have done great things but there's a reason he couldn't get on the Republican ticket, wasn't part of the establishment. And sadly if you're one in one of those two parties you have no chance.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Winstons old speak dictionary defines transphobic as someone who doesn't feel obligated to play along with obvious mental illness, I wouldn't let it bother you. Refusing to suck a penis and pretend it is a vagina is considered transphobic by commie millennials.  Just need to stop considering nonsense as reasonable.


LOL This liberal is trying to convince US that Trans people are real. lol
 Next thing liberal are going to try to say is Colored people have rights !!! lol Liberals


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Yeah I think Ron Paul would have done great things but there's a reason he couldn't get on the Republican ticket, wasn't part of the establishment. And sadly if you're one in one of those two parties you have no chance.


Why would Ron Paul run on the Republican ticket? Libertarianism lines up more with socialism, and we all know how much conservatives hate that for whatever reason.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Hahahahaha! Oh man, the insecurity levels are off the FUCKING charts here. How long's it been since you got a good sucking? You reek of blue sack, dude. "How dare those blue hairs get laid more than I do! It's not fair! I should have say so over who gets fucked, especially if I'm not!" Christ, can you express how fragile you are any harder?



I've been arguing with Democrats all day but you seem like the biggest tool not only in this thread but on this entire site. I also remember you totally jumping down my throat because I asked if crackwatch was gone. You need to take your meds and if you're not on meds get on them immediately you need help.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Joom said:


> Why would Ron Paul run on the Republican ticket? Libertarianism lines up more with socialism, and we all know how much conservatives hate that for whatever reason.



Libertarianism lines up with socialism? That's hilarious. Democrats are lining up with socialism see Bernie Sanders Kamala Harrris. You have no clue what you're talking about.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I've been arguing with Democrats all day but you seem like the biggest tool not only in this thread but on this entire site. I also remember you totally jumping down my throat because I asked if crackwatch was gone. You need to take your meds and if you're not on meds get on them immediately you need help.


Nobody jumped down your throat, you crybaby. I made a joke about a 503 error and you're still crying about that. And sorry if I stand up to bigotry and you don't like it. Yeah, you whiners sure are the new punk. Grow up.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> LOL This liberal is trying to convince US that Trans people are real. lol
> Next thing liberal are going to try to say is Colored people have rights !!! lol Liberals


I'm not a lib ya fuckin wank


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> LOL This liberal is trying to convince US that Trans people are real. lol
> Next thing liberal are going to try to say is Colored people have rights !!! lol Liberals


Shit you could have been a bit more kind in telling me I am not real ​


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Libertarianism lines up with socialism? That's hilarious. Democrats are lining up with socialism see Bernie Sanders Kamala Harrris. You have no clue what you're talking about.


You have absolutely no idea what Libertarians or Republicans stand for then. I can tell you this, they contradict each other entirely.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Libertarianism lines up with socialism? That's hilarious. Democrats are lining up with socialism see Bernie Sanders Kamala Harrris. You have no clue what you're talking about.


 Literally look up libertarian socialism. Libertarianism is based on Socialist and Communist ideology, I personally identify as a libertarian socialist, aka an anarchist. The libertarians in the US are just free-market capitalists who appropriated the term to make themselves seem cool.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Yeah I think Ron Paul would have done great things but there's a reason he couldn't get on the Republican ticket, wasn't part of the establishment. And sadly if you're one in one of those two parties you have no chance.



It's real easy to spot the candidates that aren't compromised.   If they oppose open border globalism & endless war, the media and establishment instantly start running the attack campaign.  See Bernie Sanders, See Tulsi Gabbard, Kucinich,  Nader etc.  It doesn't matter if it is DNC or GOP.   And it is a fair characterization to compare (younger) Bernie & Ron Paul outside of economics, which is not everything.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> It's real easy to spot the candidates that aren't compromised.   If they oppose open border globalism & endless war, the media and establishment instantly start running the attack campaign.  See Bernie Sanders, See Tulsi Gabbard, Kucinich,  Nader etc.  It doesn't matter if it is DNC or GOP.   And it is a fair characterization to compare (younger) Bernie & Ron Paul outside of economics, which is not everything.


Yea any moron and tell if a Candidate is Compromised, I mean if a Candidate ask for help from a foreign nation and then Get exactly what he ask... than that might mean he is  compromised but we never has seem that... nooooooo


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> It's real easy to spot the candidates that aren't compromised.   If they oppose open border globalism & endless war, the media and establishment instantly start running the attack campaign.  See Bernie Sanders, See Tulsi Gabbard, Kucinich,  Nader etc.  It doesn't matter if it is DNC or GOP.   And it is a fair characterization to compare (younger) Bernie & Ron Paul outside of economics, which is not everything.



Trump: first President in forever not to get involved with wars and was pulling our troops out of them
Democrats: He's Hitler! He's going to have us in concentration camps!


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trump: first President in forever not to get involved with wars and was pulling our troops out of them


https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2...rump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

Again, delusional. If you honestly believe Trump isn't a warmonger, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trump: first President in forever not to get involved with wars and was pulling our troops out of them
> Democrats: He's Hitler! He's going to have us in concentration camps!


Yup Trump is making sure we don't go to war... Heck even when Russia put bounty on American troops.. Nope we just let that side... I don't think the death of a couple of US Troops matter at all


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yup Trump is making sure we don't go to war... Heck even when Russia put bounty on American troops.. Nope we just let that side... I don't think the death of a couple of US Troops matter at all


Of course not. They're all suckers and losers, right?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Literally look up libertarian socialism. Libertarianism is based on Socialist and Communist ideology, I personally identify as a libertarian socialist, aka an anarchist. The libertarians in the US are just free-market capitalists who appropriated the term to make themselves seem cool.



Wrong,  capitalism and communism are economic structures. Libertarianism/authoritarianism are governmental structures.   There are numerous socialists, communists and capitalists that qualify as libertarian.  I'd move trump a lot more towards the center but agree with the sentiment.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wrong,  capitalism and communism are economic structures. Libertarianism/authoritarianism are governmental structures.   There are numerous socialists, communists and capitalists that qualify as libertarian.


Thanks for the graph, /pol/. I'm starting to get where you derive all of your information from. Also, you're agreeing here that Trump is a fascist, so thanks for finally doing so I guess. That sure does prove he's fighting the establishment.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wrong,  capitalism and communism are economic structures. Libertarianism/authoritarianism are governmental structures.   There are numerous socialists, communists and capitalists that qualify as libertarian.


wow that chart looks Official ... WOO fancy ....looks like my 3rd grader made in art class... The information looks like it came from there also..


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yup Trump is making sure we don't go to war... Heck even when Russia put bounty on American troops.. Nope we just let that side... I don't think the death of a couple of US Troops matter at all



Are you really advocating we go to war with Russia? And the worst part is it probably wouldn't be scared liberals like you going it would be Republicans. You are truly special.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Are you really advocating we go to war with Russia? And the worst part is it probably wouldn't be scared liberals like you going it would be Republicans. You are truly special.


no of course not, I would never get in-between a lovers quarrel


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> no of course not, I would never get in-between a lovers quarrel



Your sarcasm is really lame. Just stop being a pussy and say what you mean and mean what you say. You just said Trump avoided a war with Russia after they targeted our troops. So in essense you're saying we should go to war with Russia. The country that has nukes pointed right at us. Another example of a Democrat who has absolutely no clue what he's talking about just will do anything to take a shot to Trump even if it makes no sense at all.

I guess our parties have switched it's the Democrats who want war and Republicans want peace lol who would of thought.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Are you really advocating we go to war with Russia? And the worst part is it probably wouldn't be scared liberals like you going it would be Republicans. You are truly special.


We know you wouldn't be enlisting. Also, I guess you put me on ignore just to prove you aren't a fragile little boy. And again with the "liberals". Why do you refuse to understand the nuances of politics? You really are a brainwashed little twerp.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

we need to let Trump realize he is in a abusive relationship.. otherwise he'll just end right back in Putins arms in a couple of days


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Windaga said:


> And in my first class, one of my students didn't attend - her dad did, complete with a "VOTER FRAUD" shirt on.
> 
> It was my second grade class.
> 
> I just...don't even know what to say anymore.



It sounds like your malfunction is that you're watching state run propaganda designed specifically to target bimbos like "The View" instead of following the science that shows clear cut, massive voter fraud in every swing state.  Trump won 2020 in a landslide far higher than the 2016 election vs Hillary Clinton:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot

Anyone trying to prop up this illegitimate Biden regime is an enemy combatant.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

It's funny all the Hunter Biden laptop Hillary Clinton laptop Biden ties to China = conspiracy theory, fake
But Trump colluding with Russia is 100% true because CNN told me.

So it's a crazy conspiracy theory that Democrats will never believe unless it's about Trump then it HAS to be true.

CNN is a conspiracy site btw Conspiracy News Network. Thinking they're actually reporting the news is hilarious. Let's see if they say one bad thing about Biden in office. Not a chance.

We truly have the most brainwashed people in the entire world thanks to the fake news propaganda machine.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> It sounds like your malfunction is that you're watching state run propaganda designed specifically to target bimbos like "The View" instead of following the science that shows clear cut, massive voter fraud in every swing state.  Trump won 2020 in a landslide far higher than the 2016 election vs Hillary Clinton:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot
> 
> Anyone trying to prop up this illegitimate Biden regime is an enemy combatant.


Hey buddy, you wanna share some of that crack you're smoking? Seems like you got a good batch.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> It sounds like your malfunction is that you're watching state run propaganda designed specifically to target bimbos like "The View" instead of following the science that shows clear cut, massive voter fraud in every swing state.  Trump won 2020 in a landslide far higher than the 2016 election vs Hillary Clinton:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot
> 
> Anyone trying to prop up this illegitimate Biden regime is an enemy combatant.


 yea  lol these bimbos think they have equal rights, r0achtheunsavory has the right idea!! only white male landowners have voting rights!!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Your sarcasm is really lame. Just stop being a pussy and say what you mean and mean what you say. You just said Trump avoided a war with Russia after they targeted our troops. So in essense you're saying we should go to war with Russia. The country that has nukes pointed right at us. Another example of a Democrat who has absolutely no clue what he's talking about just will do anything to take a shot to Trump even if it makes no sense at all.
> 
> I guess our parties have switched it's the Democrats who want war and Republicans want peace lol who would of thought.



If you look at modern history of conflicts of who ended wars and started wars it's overwhelming democrats, even Kennedy he started Vietnam, Nixon ended it.  

October 1962 — Operation Ranch Hand begins. U.S. planes spray herbicides and defoliants over South Vietnam until 1971.
May 1963 — Republican Barry Goldwater declares that the U.S. should fight to win or withdraw from Vietnam
I've ignored 3 people ever, Djpeckerface is one of them.  He has no point at all ever, just vitriol & ignorance spewing incoherently, not worth your time to adress.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Guys, check out Trump's landslide. If you squint really hard you can see it.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If you look at modern history of conflicts of who ended wars and started wars it's overwhelming democrats, even Kennedy he started Vietnam, Nixon ended it.
> 
> October 1962 — Operation Ranch Hand begins. U.S. planes spray herbicides and defoliants over South Vietnam until 1971.
> May 1963 — Republican Barry Goldwater declares that the U.S. should fight to win or withdraw from Vietnam
> I've ignored 3 people ever, Djpeckerface is one of them.  He has no point at all ever, just vitriol & ignorance spewing incoherently, not worth your time to adress.


yea... and don't forget the Civil War.. !!!


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Your sarcasm is really lame. Just stop being a pussy and say what you mean and mean what you say.


Imagine calling people pussies after literally boohooing about supposedly getting bullied and then blocking your supposed bully. If you get any more transparent you're gonna turn invisible.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Trump won, get over it.  The criminals in the media and CIA (same people that fabricated Russiagate) tried to rig the election, but unfortunately for them, people in the private sector and general population are smarter than government employees and every statistician in the world has already busted this case wide open.

Nothing in this post is opinion.  It's all data and facts that shows undeniable voter fraud with Trump winning every one of these swing states just like it showed on election night itself:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Trump won, get over it.  The criminals in the media and CIA (same people that fabricated Russiagate) tried to rig the election, but unfortunately for them, people in the private sector and general population are smarter than government employees and every statistician in the world has already busted this case wide open.
> 
> Nothing in this post is opinion.  It's all data and facts that shows undeniable voter fraud with Trump winning every one of these swing states just like it showed on election night itself:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


Please man, I really need a fix. Gimme some of that rock already. It's obviously some good shit.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If you look at modern history of conflicts of who ended wars and started wars it's overwhelming democrats, even Kennedy he started Vietnam, Nixon ended it.
> 
> October 1962 — Operation Ranch Hand begins. U.S. planes spray herbicides and defoliants over South Vietnam until 1971.
> May 1963 — Republican Barry Goldwater declares that the U.S. should fight to win or withdraw from Vietnam
> I've ignored 3 people ever, Djpeckerface is one of them.  He has no point at all ever, just vitriol & ignorance spewing incoherently, not worth your time to adress.



And it's Republicans who overwhelmingly sign up for the military, that's interesting never thought about it like that.

It's kinda fun to trigger Dems but I do kinda feel sorry for them. Totally brainwashed by propaganda. But what you don't know you don't know.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Trump won, get over it.  The criminals in the media and CIA (same people that fabricated Russiagate) tried to rig the election, but unfortunately for them, people in the private sector and general population are smarter than government employees and every statistician in the world has already busted this case wide open.
> 
> Nothing in this post is opinion.  It's all data and facts that shows undeniable voter fraud with Trump winning every one of these swing states just like it showed on election night itself:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


yea Trump won, Trump the one would got all the votes..if you throw out all the illegal votes. (minorities and women votes) Biden 0- Trump 71 million thats how it works right?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Trump won, get over it.  The criminals in the media and CIA (same people that fabricated Russiagate) tried to rig the election, but unfortunately for them, people in the private sector and general population are smarter than government employees and every statistician in the world has already busted this case wide open.
> 
> Nothing in this post is opinion.  It's all data and facts that shows undeniable voter fraud with Trump winning every one of these swing states just like it showed on election night itself:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


They will probably get away with it. Just wait till the college votes. That even if its seems good, no one cares. So, just wait.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

The soy men communists are really in for a rude awakening if they think Biden will be allowed to rule over anyone.  Government in the US is by consent.  When over half of the population knows and agrees there was mass voter fraud and that Biden didn't actually win, federal government is completely nullified and has no power over anyone and there is no president.

Either Biden will step down, be removed, or there will be civil war.  Period.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> The soy men communists are really in for a rude awakening if they think Biden will be allowed to rule over anyone.  Government in the US is by consent.  When over half of the population knows and agrees there was mass voter fraud and that Biden didn't actually win, federal government is completely nullified and has no power over anyone and there is no president.
> 
> Either Biden will step down, be removed, or there will be civil war.  Period.


Welp we just have to wait. This shitshow is getting better and better, and your the person making it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Even if fraud took place, do Republicans think anything will even happen? Bush got away with it and nothing happened. Biden will still be president, and nothing will happen. Also, FOX just had to cut a stream short because the speaker of the house was at a stand lying about fraud, and then when asked for proof, she pretty much said there isn't any. Sorry, white nationalists, racists, bigots, and conspiracy theorists, but your boy lost fair and square. Now be a good sport already and open wide.


r0achtheunsavory said:


> When over half of the population knows and agrees there was mass voter fraud


Uh, the popular vote says otherwise, but ok.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

It just feels like they are role playing.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> The soy men communists are really in for a rude awakening if they think Biden will be allowed to rule over anyone.  Government in the US is by consent.  When over half of the population knows and agrees there was mass voter fraud and that Biden didn't actually win, federal government is completely nullified and has no power over anyone and there is no president.
> 
> Either Biden will step down, be removed, or there will be civil war.  Period.


yup That will show Biden, that allowing Coloreds and women to vote is wrong!


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 10, 2020)

We just got to wait man, some things like gun restrictions from demos are dumb, but all we need to do is wait.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> And and it's Republicans who overwhelmingly sign up for the military, that's interesting never thought about it like that



If you take a deep dive sometime you find out Nixon is the most successful peace maker in modern history in exact opposition to the warmongering stereotype. Big stick foreign policy seems to be the most successful, the guy waving the gun around that everyone thinks is crazy enough to  use it seems to do the best at producing peace, in contrast to pussies that just talk about peace like Neville Chamberlain.  Nixon was a successful peace maker because he stated unequivocally he would wipe you off the face of the earth and no one doubted he meant it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Another thing, too, why wouldn't the Democrats steal the Senate as well if they were gonna commit fraud? Why would they lose seats in the House? Why would the actual election be such a close race? Fucking A people, learn what Occam's razor is.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 10, 2020)

Does anyone even fully demo or fully republic? I doubt it.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If you take a deep dive sometime you find out Nixon is the most successful peace maker in modern history in exact opposition to the warmongering stereotype. Big stick foreign policy seems to be the most successful, the guy waving the gun around that everyone thinks is crazy enough to  use it seems to do the best at producing peace, in contrast to pussies that just talk about peace like Neville Chamberlain.  Nixon was a successful peace maker because he stated unequivocally he would wipe you off the face of the earth and no one doubted he meant it.



Yeah I was never a George Bush fan Sr or Jr. I think they're Globalists and I still kinda suspect Jr. was behind 9/11.  Maybe it's a conspiracy theory I really don't know what happened but nothing would surprise me. 

That reminds me Dick Cheney is supposed to be Biden's Foreign Policy guy lol wars are a coming.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wrong,  capitalism and communism are economic structures. Libertarianism/authoritarianism are governmental structures.   There are numerous socialists, communists and capitalists that qualify as libertarian.  I'd move trump a lot more towards the center but agree with the sentiment.


Lol a political compass. Your image in no way contradicts my statement.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Does anyone even fully demo or fully republic? I doubt it.


I don't. I'm a socialist. I can't stand either party, but socialists are much more likely to get what they want under the Democrats, especially when the Republicans have become straight up fascists.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> I still kinda suspect Jr. was behind 9/11.


And there goes what little credibility you even had. How's your echo chamber, by the way? Enjoying the circle jerk from people who don't disagree with you?


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Nixon was a successful peace maker because he stated unequivocally he would wipe you off the face of the earth and no one doubted he meant it.



My grandfather worked for Nixon.  The soy men in this thread are in for the ultimate FAFO moment.  This has a HIGH chance of turning into a kinetic war if Biden, the media, and CIA keep pushing this voter fraud trying to install a puppet candidate that lost.

The first civil war itself was fought for less than this.  At the time, slavery was a controversial issue, but the real issue was federalism and the ability of states to leave or not and if the union was voluntary.  Rigging an entire national election involving 50 states is an even higher grievance.

The soy men in this thread live in an alternate dimension and think spamming jibberish can somehow distract the millions of people in the country ready to die over this issue.  I'd pick very carefully what side you join on this.  Are people willing to die over puppet candidate Beijing Biden that didn't even win and was instead installed by the CIA?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> My grandfather worked for Nixon.  The soy men in this thread are in for the ultimate FAFO moment.  This has a HIGH chance of turning into a kinetic war if Biden, the media, and CIA keep pushing this voter fraud trying to install a puppet candidate that lost.
> 
> The first civil war itself was fought for less than this.  At the time, slavery was a controversial issue, but the real issue was federalism and the ability of states to leave or not and if the union was voluntary.  Rigging an entire national election involving 50 states is an even higher grievance.
> 
> The soy men in this thread live in an alternate dimension and think spamming jibberish can somehow distract the hundreds of thousands of people in the country ready to die over this issue.  I'd pick very carefully what side you join on this.  Are people willing to die over puppet candidate Beijing Biden that didn't even win and was instead installed by the CIA?



Oh my god, please give my hard evidence to anything. Stop bitching about theories that are pretty bad and spelling that makes no sense. I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but this isn't even making sense.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> jibberish


You're posting literally nothing but conspiracy theories and demonstrably false conjecture. Also, it's "gibberish".

Also, "Joh-Joh-Jjjjugh - Oh you know what I mean!"


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Oh my god, please give my hard evidence to anything. Stop bitching about theories that are pretty bad and spelling that makes no sense. I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but this isn't even making sense.



Agree with him or not, where did he make a spelling error? He didn't.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Lol a political compass. Your image in no way contradicts my statement.



Nah just facts, polisci 101 and how everyone in the world has used those words for the last 100 years. Have fun with your newspeak. You and the rest of the magic alphabet unicorn snowflake crowd in your safespace redefining basic vocabulary while screaming racist/ ____phobic at everyone who doesn't adopt your revisionist nonsense jargon.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Yeah I was never a George Bush fan Sr or Jr. I think they're Globalists and I still kinda suspect Jr. was behind 9/11.  Maybe it's a conspiracy theory I really don't know what happened but nothing would surprise me. That reminds me Dick Cheney is supposed to be Biden's Foreign Policy guy lol wars are a coming.



The Bush crime family is the most disgusting syndicate in the history of humanity,  Prescott Bush funded the Nazis, HW Bush was a key architect in the CIA during of the Kennedy assassination, Barbara Bush is probably the lovechild of Aleister Crowley and Dubya either let 9/11 happen or was complicit.   They are the puppets of the Carlyle group and Saudi Royal family cartel.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Agree with him or not, where did he make a spelling error? He didn't.


He misspelled "gibberish", you dunce.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

You're right.  Hard data that contains no opinion and clearly shows coordinated, mass voter fraud in every swing state literally is a conspiracy theory by definition.  It just turns out to be a 100% true "conspiracy theory", or rather conspiracy fact:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> You're right.  Hard data that contains no opinion and clearly shows coordinated, mass voter fraud in every swing state literally is a conspiracy theory by definition.  It just turns out to be a 100% true "conspiracy theory", or rather conspiracy fact:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


Every time you regurgitate this same piece of drivel, I'm just gonna keep retorting with this.

1/ ALRIGHT Y'ALL. ELECTION FRAUD DEBUNKING MEGA THREAD. I’m following claims of fraud and looking into them. I think I’ve solved most now. Nothing is holding up under any scrutiny so far so I’m making a thread to track in one place. Please RT! #ElectionResults2020 #Election2020— Isaac Saul (@Ike_Saul) November 5, 2020


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> He misspelled "gibberish", you dunce.



I'm really starting to think you're a 12 year old and mommy needs to tell you it's bed bed time and med med time.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I'm really starting to think you're a 12 year old and mommy needs to tell you it's bed bed time and med med time.


Sad that a 12 year old is smarter than you I guess. At least I know how to spell.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Nah just facts, polysci 101 and how everyone in the world has used those words for the last 100 years. Have fun with your newspeak you and the rest of the magic alphabet unicorn snowflakes crowd in to your safespace and redefine basic vocabulary while screaming racist/ ____phobic at everyone who doesn't adopt your revisionist nonsense jargon.


Dude, you simply cannot simplify something so broad as politics into a two-axis graph, that makes no sense. No one actually involved in politics takes the political compass seriously outside of LARPers like you. If you literally look up the term libertarianism you can find that as a concept Libertarianism is rooted in Anarchist (and therefore communist) ideology. Only later on has libertarianism become colloquially associated with free-market capitalism. If anything YOU'RE the one with the "newspeak" if you're trying to tell me that libertarianism isn't rooted in historic Anarchism.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

LOL.  Citing a random nobody on Twitter who works for some type of fake news media organization and "debunks" voter fraud by just typing opinions without addressing ANY of the data people presented?  GOOD JOB.

Where's his "debunking" of the Benford law?  Where's his debunking of the Zerohedge data scientist?  Where's his debunking cases of dumping 20,000+ votes all in a row with 0 Trump votes in any of them only in swing states?  80,000+ votes in swing states only voting for president and no other candidate...and ONLY occurring in swing states?  It's a complete joke how much fraud there is.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Nobody who has any brains believes 78 year old Sleepy Joe one step from a nursing home had the most votes in U.S. history. The Democrats figured out how to rig the election and if it's not contested they'll do it from now on. Eventually even their supporters will realize they messed up if we get 20-30 years straight Democrat Presidents but it'll be far too late.

Most crime filled cities all run by Democrat. It may sound "cool" to not want to have any police but you will have gangs running the area. I guess that's what you want but you would soon regret that choice.

I say let's sacrifice a city (Democrat one of course) let all the Democrats who want no police go there and try it and see what happens.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> LOL. Citing a random nobody on Twitter


But you've been doing the same thing.  You really aren't self-aware, are you? The difference here is that what I've been posting is actually credible. Anyway, I'm gonna start saying I won the presidency since it's just as credible as Trump and his buffoons claiming it.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Nobody who has any brains believes 78 year old Sleepy Joe one step from a nursing home had the most votes in U.S. history.


Except everyone who voted for him, lol. Also, you do know Trump is 74, right? Age is a real non sequitur here, especially when Trump is obviously more deranged and delusional than Biden. And this "Sleepy Joe" meme is so fucking tired. Get new material already. I don't support Biden, but holy shit you Trumpers are fucking cultists, I swear. I'm glad your supreme tangerine lost.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> If you literally look up the term libertarianism you can find that as a concept Libertarianism is rooted in Anarchist (and therefore communist) ideology. Only later on has libertarianism become colloquially associated with free-market capitalism. If anything YOU'RE the one with the "newspeak" if you're trying to tell me that libertarianism isn't rooted in historic Anarchism.



Jesus Christ, you have no idea what you're talking about, as expected from someone with "antifa" written on their profile because it's all uneducated children in their low 20's.  The classical, mainstream political spectrum is the further left you go, the more collectivist, more big government, and more authoritarian you get, and the further right you go, the smaller government and less ornerous regulation and control you get until finally ending with anarchy on the far right.

"Anarchy" is inherently far right and cannot magically be moved by fake propaganda to the far left.  Communism and anarchism are inherently diametrically opposed ideology that can never be combined.  One requires big, authoritrian government and collectivism, one requires absence of government and no collectivism.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> "Anarchy" is inherently far right and cannot magically be moved by fake propaganda to the far left.


I guess that's good since it's already on the left. Do you not understand how contradictory your statements are? Yeah, the far right is all about anarchism and allowing people to do whatever they want with the absence of government. Like I said, you're entirely devoid of self-awareness. But hey, this is what fascists do; they sow doubt by spreading lies and disinformation to fit a false narrative. Only stupid people buy into it, but unfortunately, half the world seems pretty stupid right now.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

It's you that is lying.

Technically, Bernie Sanders, Hitler, Mao, Biden, and Trump are ALL in the same political party on the far left because they're all big government authoritarians.  The only modern day figures promoting anything resembling right wing ideology are people like Ron Paul/Rand Paul.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Dude, you simply cannot simplify something so broad as politics into a two-axis graph, that makes no sense. No one actually involved in politics takes the political compass seriously outside of LARPers like you. If you literally look up the term libertarianism you can find that as a concept Libertarianism is rooted in Anarchist (and therefore communist) ideology. Only later on has libertarianism become colloquially associated with free-market capitalism. If anything YOU'RE the one with the "newspeak" if you're trying to tell me that libertarianism isn't rooted in historic Anarchism.



You are the one simplifying libertarianism to co-opt it as the exclusive domain of your bullshit apologist revisionist communism.  I fully accept and embrace Libertarianism has as broad of a spectrum as authoritarianism does. For someone who runs around calling people boring you are a one dimensional stereotype of "The USSR did the communism wrong, I know how to do it right".  I don't even think your a real person, I think a redditor developed a chat bot to regurgitate the same tired apologist arguments for communism that have been discredited time and time again.  One page of script to trololo to mock the people who actually believed the garbage you spew.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Jesus Christ, you have no idea what you're talking about, as expected from someone with "antifa" written on their profile because it's all uneducated children in their low 20's.  The classical, mainstream political spectrum is the further left you go, the more collectivist, more big government, and more authoritarian you get, and the further right you go, the smaller government and less ornerous regulation and control you get until finally ending with anarchy on the far right.
> 
> "Anarchy" is inherently far right and cannot magically be moved by fake propaganda to the far left.  Communism and anarchism are inherently diametrically opposed ideology that can never be combined.  One requires big, authoritrian government and collectivism, one requires absence of government and no collectivism.



Yeah I notice a pattern that a lot of the people posting on here don't even know basics of Government. Like someone said "I'm glad Trump didn't win we were headed towards a dictatorship" No that's what you just voted for. Trump was for smaller Government, Democrats always want big Government. They want to raise taxes to spend trillions on remaking buildings while Trump was cutting taxes.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Hitler


Could have fooled me. Hitler sure did speak out against how much he hated the left in Mein Kampf, but I guess that's a lie, too.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> It's you that is lying.
> 
> Technically, Bernie Sanders, Hitler, Mao, Biden, and Trump are ALL in the same political party on the far left because they're all big government authoritarians.  The only modern day figures promoting anything resembling right wing ideology are people like Ron Paul/Rand Paul.



What? Trump is not for big government nor is he an authoritarian.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Yeah I notice a pattern that a lot of the people posting on here don't even know basics of Government


This coming from the smooth brain that can't spell, doesn't understand that Libertarians are lefties, and thinks Bush did 9/11.

Listen folks, here's how you defeat fascists. You keep pointing out their buffoonery and ignorance to the point where they just seem like a homeless guy on a street corner raving about nonsense so nobody takes their rhetoric seriously.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> What? Trump was not for big government nor was he an authoritarian.


Ahhh, there we go. Case in point. Look at how stupid this comment is.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

People try to redefine political lines to suit their own needs.  It's a fact, when judged by the classical political spectrum, Bernie Sanders, Hitler, Biden, AOC, Mao, Trump, etc, are all far leftists since they're all for big government.  Big government is inherently authoritarian as well (que antifa weirdos screeching "fascist!" while promoting big government, fascist candidates).

Every antifa big government, communist idiot should be forced to have a picture of this in their room:


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> People try to redefine political lines to suit their own needs.


You mean like you by calling Hitler a lefty? lolk


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

I think it's funny how people are calling Trump supporters idiots because they can't spell right. Don't forget what Biden advocates for as a human right.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You are the one simplifying libertarianism to co-opt it as the exclusive domain of your bullshit apologist revisionist communism.  I fully accept and embrace Libertarianism has as broad of a spectrum as authoritarianism does. For someone who runs around calling people boring you are a one dimensional stereotype of "The USSR did the communism wrong, I know how to do it right".  I don't even think your a real person, I think a redditor developed a chat bot to regurgitate the same tired apologist arguments for communism that have been discredited time and time again.  One page of script to trololo to mock the people who actually believed the garbage you spew.


You've sussed me out I am indeed a robot.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> You mean like you by calling Hitler a lefty? lolk



Dude, you are seriously dumb if you did not know Hitler is technically a leftist.  You have to be one of those zero IQ people that think the word "left" means 'people that aren't white'.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> This coming from the smooth brain that can't spell, doesn't understand that Libertarians are lefties, and thinks Bush did 9/11.
> 
> Listen folks, here's how you defeat fascists. You keep pointing out their buffoonery and ignorance to the point where they just seem like a homeless guy on a street corner raving about nonsense so nobody takes their rhetoric seriously.
> 
> Ahhh, there we go. Case in point. Look at how stupid this comment is.



Bernie Sanders wanting everyone to have Medicare that is big Government. Trump cutting taxes is big Government? I don't think so. Big Government wants to raise your taxes. Biden will triple our taxes. You've clearly shown you're not capable of earning a paycheck because of brain defects which I don't blame you for but most of us have to work.


----------



## Seliph (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Jesus Christ, you have no idea what you're talking about, as expected from someone with "antifa" written on their profile because it's all uneducated children in their low 20's. The classical, mainstream political spectrum is the further left you go, the more collectivist, more big government, and more authoritarian you get, and the further right you go, the smaller government and less ornerous regulation and control you get until finally ending with anarchy on the far right.
> 
> "Anarchy" is inherently far right and cannot magically be moved by fake propaganda to the far left. Communism and anarchism are inherently diametrically opposed ideology that can never be combined. One requires big, authoritrian government and collectivism, one requires absence of government and no collectivism.


So uh you're wrong and you clearly haven't read an ounce of Anarchist theory. Check out Errico Malatesta if you're interested in learning more. He's got some great stuff and was one of the most popular historical Anarchist thinkers of his time. If your understanding of politics is limited to left = more government and right = less government, you definitely don't understand politics. Plus the right-left dichotomy is reductive anyways as an understanding of political ideology. There is a lot more nuance to politics than a simple right-left spectrum could ever allow.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

As for people complaining about me classifying Trump as a leftist as well.  He inherited big government from years of waste and largess.   The federal government now employees a huge amount of people and taking the axe to it would create a temporary economic implosion, so Trump has no desire whatsoever to do so and take the blame for it while having people in food lines.

The size and waste of government is already terminal and doomed for implosion if nobody shrinks it, but nobody does because nobody wants to take the blame for the immediate effects of the collapse it causes.  This is why the government stages 'shock and awe' false flag events to blame economic implosions on other things than themselves.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> As for people complaining about me classifying Trump as a leftist as well.  He inherited big government from years of waste and largess.   The federal government now employees a huge amount of people and taking the axe to it would create a temporary economic implosion, so Trump has no desire whatsoever to do so and take the blame for it while having people in food lines.
> 
> The size and waste of government is already terminal and doomed for implosion if nobody shrinks it, but nobody does because nobody wants to take the blame for the immediate effects of the collapse it causes.



You're changing your own argument you said Trump was an authoritarian and wants big Government, now he just doesn't want to shrink it. Can't have it both ways.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Big government is ALWAYS inherently authoritarian.  You can't grant millions of useless shitheads power to micromanage people's lives (aka government employees) and not wind up living in a dystopian police state.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Big government is ALWAYS inherently authoritarian.  You can't grant millions of useless shitheads power to micromanage people's lives (aka government employees) and not wind up living in a dystopian police state.



Like you said Trump didn't create that nor does he solely have the power to change it.  Even if Ron Paul got in there if you have some delusion that he would make the Government tiny you're wrong.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

I'm not anti-Trump, nor am I pro-everything about Trump.  Just get over the fact that every politician is an opportunist that isn't going to sabotage their own popularity by shrinking government to manageble size, then causing millions of people to be unemployed and being blamed for them all starving in food lines.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I'm not anti-Trump, nor am I pro-everything about Trump.  Just get over the fact that every politician is an opportunist that isn't going to sabotage their own popularity by shrinking government to manageble size, then causing millions of people to be unemployed and being blamed for them all starving in food lines.



Well since we don't have kings none of them could do that so your point is moot.

Trump was trying to drain the swamp, but got defrauded out of reelection. But show me where he would have the power to cut the Government in half? I don't even know what you're talking about.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I like Ron Paul I think he's one of the good ones but acting like he would fix all problems shrink the Government into a pebble is just wrong.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Well since we don't have kings none of them could do that so your point is moot.
> 
> Trump was trying to drain the swamp, but got defrauded out of reelection. But show me where he would have the power to cut the Government in half? I don't even know what you're talking about.


name one example of anti-corruption actions by the trump administration


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Well since we don't have kings none of them could do that so your point is moot.
> 
> Trump was trying to drain the swamp, but got defrauded out of reelection. But show me where he would have the power to cut the Government in half? I don't even know what you're talking about.
> 
> ...


Wtf ..I leave to go poop and the trolls became cannibal?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> name one example of anti-corruption actions by the trump administration



Name one example of anti-corruption actions by anyone in the federal government, so when I cite one you don't move the goal post or reject it for not fitting in to the partisanship of things you care about.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Well since we don't have kings none of them could do that so your point is moot.
> 
> I like Ron Paul I think he's one of the good ones but acting like he would fix all problems shrink the Government into a peeble is just wrong.



Politics is Machiavellian in general.  There are no 'clean' candidates.  Case in point, the repo market (short term lending) was imploding and required hundreds of billions of dollars in bailouts per day indicating a crash worse than 2000+2008 combined was kicking off.  The mother of all crashes since the 1920's.

Miraculously, out of the blue, here comes "Covid 19" for all the bankers and politicians to blame economic implosion on instead of extreme mismanagement and theft by themselves so they don't hang in the streets.  It ALWAYS happens like this.

People notice there's a lot of suspicious things about this virus.  What happens next?  A limited hangout announcement claiming everything suspicous about the virus can be explained by escaping a Chinese bio-warfare lab.  Well, the timing is definitely no accident, so now all you're left with just who actually did it.

What motive does Trump have to blow the whistle on it when a crash equal or worse than the 1920's was due to occur on his watch not of his making?  Someone like Ron Paul wouldn't have lied about it, but he's the exception.  So it all comes down to whether you agree with being lied to or not "for the greater good".


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

Reminds me of this.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Name one example of anti-corruption actions by anyone in the federal government, so when I cite one you don't move the goal post or reject it for not fitting in to the partisanship of things you care about.


i can pull up a fuck ton from progressives, who are the actual ones getting this done


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Wow.  Somone drank so much koolaid they used the word "progressive" unironically.  Just like antifa is 'anti-fascist' while practicing fascism and physically attacking anyone who doesn't agree with them.  Then their internal literature is literally a white genocide movement that states their goal is to destroy all white institutions, patriarchy, basically civilization as a whole.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Reminds me of this.


One part of me agrees with this, while the other believes in a free market.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Wow.  Somone drank so much koolaid they used the word "progressive" unironically.  Just like antifa is 'anti-fascist' while practicing fascism and physically attacking anyone who doesn't agree with them.  Then their internal literature is literally a white genocide movement that states their goal is to destroy all white institutions, patriarchy, basically civilization as a whole.



ANTIFA is like KKK with the media behind them. Pretty sure KKK never have the U.S. media behind it. 

Before I get criticized "derr KKK killed blacks" obviously I know that, but don't think your organization is any better because it's whites instead.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

I


ForgotWhoIam said:


> ANTIFA is like KKK with the media behind them.


lol soo true and the proud boys are like the kkk but without all that swag.  Got to love those hats.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

i aint gonna argue wth someone with such a 2d and flawed view of an issue that they'd call bernie mf sanders fascist, it's an utter waste of my time


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Reminds me of this.




Kingvamp, this is cognitive dissonance, Cognitive dissonance Kingvamp.  You two seem to know each other.

*Donations to Biden campaign. 

 Walmart/Lukas Walton      $15,600
JPMorgan Chase                $27,981
Coca-Cola                             $18,975
ExxonMobil                           $158,129
Nike                                       $229,183
Monsanto                              $110,539*​
--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jupitteer said:


> i aint gonna argue wth someone with such a 2d and flawed view of an issue that they'd call bernie mf sanders fascist, it's an utter waste of my time



I am not in on the Bernie bashing, I don't support his economic policies but his supporters generally at least have a informed opinion based on facts and I don't speak ill of anyone with a consistent anti-war voting record.   Even if I disagreed with Bernie on everything I do not believe him to be corrupt or have hate filled intentions like Biden.




jupitteer said:


> i can pull up a fuck ton from progressives, who are the actual ones getting this done


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Kingvamp, this is cognitive dissonance, Cognitive dissonance Kingvamp.  You two seem to know each other.
> 
> *Donations to Biden campaign.
> 
> ...


Just shows how bad things are getting, when a gas company is donating to the person that actually cares about climate change. 

Neither government or private companies getting too powerful, is ideal.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

I would post the ANTIFA manuals and internal documents I came across and saved on my hard drive but I deleted them because I didn't want the legal liability of having it.  Their documents are 100% violent, terrorist training manuals aimed at attacking specifically white people, white institutions, "patriarchy", etc.

They trick idiots to join them by claiming that if you destroy white people, minorities or women will somehow benefit at the expense of "da white man" dying by pretending there are zero sum game mechanics at play.  This is kind of what was playing out in South Africa where the Mugabe government seized white farmer's property then everyone starved and died because the Africans he gave the property to didn't even know how to farm, so I think they just gave the land back to them in some cases recently.

A lot of people do get to positions of power and wealth by cheating and exploitation, but pretending all white people on the planet did is a joke.  In the present day, all the big time criminals in finance like Bernie Madoff and Jamie Dimon aren't even white.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I would post the ANTIFA manuals and internal documents I came across and saved on my hard drive but I deleted them because I didn't want the legal liability of having it.  Their documents are 100% violent, terrorist training manuals aimed at attacking specifically white people, white institutions, "patriarchy", etc.
> 
> They trick idiots to join them by claiming that if you destroy white people, minorities or women will somehow benefit at the expense of "da white man" dying by pretending there are zero sum game mechanics at play.  This is kind of what was playing out in South Africa where the Mugabe government seized white farmer's property then everyone starved and died because the Africans he gave the property to didn't even know how to farm, so I think they just gave the land back to them in some cases recently.
> 
> A lot of people do get to positions of power and wealth by cheating and exploitation, but pretending all white people on the planet did is a joke.  In the present day, all the big time criminals in finance like Bernie Madoff and Jamie Dimon aren't even white.


you are a schizophrenic loon that needs serious help


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Lol a political compass. Your image in no way contradicts my statement.


His graph makes Sanders the most reasonable centrist. Not the crazy far left socialist/communist they make him out to be.

So when is he going to realized that and start to wear I support Bernie Sanders t-shirts?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Just shows how bad things are getting, when a gas company is donating to the person that actually cares about climate change.



Or just proves he doesn't care about climate change, but keep up the delusion.  Reality sucks.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> One part of me agrees with this, while the other believes in a free market.


All "free market" means is that corporations outgrow and then end up owning the government, so the meme is accurate.



jimbo13 said:


> *Donations to Biden campaign.
> 
> Walmart/Lukas Walton $15,600
> JPMorgan Chase $27,981
> ...


I'm sure all of these corporations donated varying amounts to both candidates, that's what you can do with that type of insane wealth generated from the sweat of the working class.  It's ultimately irrelevant though, as Biden will be raising their taxes to a reasonable and sustainable level (though not as high as I'd like), and Trump would've kept corporate taxes at an unsustainable low while still spending like crazy and driving up the deficit.  It's we the people that end up paying what they refuse to, meaning they're fucking us from both ends (wages and tax dodging).  Fuck Trump, you got straight conned.  Let it go.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> you area schizophrenic loon that needs serious help



If you think they're so great you should come to America and join them. Oh wait they would probably make fun of your accent and give you a beating and piss on you.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If you think they're so great you should come to America and join them. Oh wait they would probably make fun of your accent and give you a beating and piss on you.


im from pennsylvania shitlord


----------



## elk1007 (Nov 10, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> 4 years of being called libtard, cuck, or snowflake just for so much as saying you disagree with anything trump said is finally over.
> 
> I disliked trump, but I absolutely despised his base for pretty much completely destroying reasonable political disagreements and discourse.



The person sitting in the oval office won't affect that behavior.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

SG854 said:


> His graph makes Sanders the most reasonable centrist. Not the crazy far left socialist/communist they make him out to be.
> 
> So when is he going to realized that and start to wear I support Bernie Sanders t-shirts?



I have no problem with Bernie Sanders generally other than recent pandering to the establishment trying to get a seat at the table, Economics is not generally my priority vote.  Bernie checks different boxes but nearly as many as Trump does for me.  But I wouldn't place most the people in those spots on the chart, I just grabbed it for the layout I didn't fill it in.   The democrats rigged the vote on Bernie too.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

SG854 said:


> His graph makes Sanders the most reasonable centrist. Not the crazy far left socialist/communist they make him out to be.



That's a load of shit because you use the false premise that politicians don't lie about their real agenda.  The real Alinsky playbook they use specifically says to lie about anything you want because you can always change the conversation later or pretend it wasn't your fault you didn't deliver.

In reality, you don't know a single thing about any of these people's real agenda.  All that's really known from simple deduction is that Bernie is tolerated and embraced by the fake left/right uni-party consisting of the Bush crime family, Clinton crime family, Obama crime family, Biden crime family, etc.  And that those crime families dislike Trump and he's either not a part of them or there are extreme policy differences.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If you think they're so great you should come to America and join them. Oh wait they would probably make fun of your accent and give you a beating and piss on you.


Lol that’s right !! We don’t like them minorities with funny accents and foods...


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> That's a load of shit because you use the false premise that politicians don't lie about their real agenda.  The real Alinsky playbook they use specifically says to lie about anything you want because you can always change the conversation later or pretend it wasn't your fault you didn't deliver.
> 
> In reality, you don't know a single thing about any of these people's real agenda.  All that's really known from simple deduction is that Bernie is tolerated and embraced by the fake left/right uni-party consisting of the Bush crime family, Clinton crime family, Obama crime family, Biden crime family, etc.  And that those crime families dislike Trump and he's either not a part of them or there are extreme policy differences.


you literally have a vladimir putin profile picture


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I have no problem with Bernie Sanders generally other than recent pandering to the establishment trying to get a seat at the table, Economics is not generally my priority vote.  Bernie checks different boxes but nearly as many as Trump does for me.


Economics is on the top of everyone's vote and is usually what decides the president in the end. It should be higher then identity politics because making a living is more important than that. Usually establishment and economics is intertwined. The establishment exists to please the corporations so money/economics is the root of all this.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> you literally have a vladimir putin profile picture



That's literally not a argument or point of any kind.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> That's a load of shit because you use the false premise that politicians don't lie about their real agenda.  The real Alinsky playbook they use specifically says to lie about anything you want because you can always change the conversation later or pretend it wasn't your fault you didn't deliver.
> 
> In reality, you don't know a single thing about any of these people's real agenda.  All that's really known from simple deduction is that Bernie is tolerated and embraced by the fake left/right uni-party consisting of the Bush crime family, Clinton crime family, Obama crime family, Biden crime family, etc.  And that those crime families dislike Trump and he's either not a part of them or there are extreme policy differences.


I'm just commenting on the graph he posted. I didn't make the graph so it doesn't reflect what I think of Bernie.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> That's literally not a argument or point of any kind.


i dont really think i need to, any person that's not far enough gone to believe in that weird rebranded nazi shit can see how nuts that guy is


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> That's literally not a argument or point of any kind.


Yes don’t worry bout putin his not man behide the curtain.. no not at all


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Economics is on the top of everyone's vote and is usually what decides the president in the end. It should be higher then identity politics because making a living is more important than that. Usually establishment and economics is intertwined. The establishment exists to please the corporations so money/economics is the root of all this.



I am independently wealthy and live in the middle of nowhere wildnerness, 90% of my food is hunted & self farmed.  If the dollar collapsed tomorrow I wouldn't notice it well in to next year.  That said my top priority is a peace driven non-interventionist foreign policy followed by first amendment and freedom of expression.  I feel safe with both those issues when it comes to Bernie & Trump.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Or just proves he doesn't care about climate change, but keep up the delusion.  Reality sucks.


Must be why he is planning to rejoin the Paris Agreement and undo environment deregulation. 
Link




ForgotWhoIam said:


> Oh wait they would probably make fun of your accent and give you a beating and piss on you.


Way to make Americans look good.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Lol that’s right !! We don’t like them minorities with funny accents and foods...



"We" I doubt you are ANTIFA. They'd piss on you too.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



KingVamp said:


> Must be why he is planning to rejoin the Paris Agreement and undo environment deregulation.
> Link
> 
> 
> ...



ANTIFA is not America, ANTIFA is a criminal organization. That's actually just kind of just a stupid comment. that's like saying anyone in Italy is in the Mafia.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am independently wealthy and live in the middle of nowhere wildnerness, 90% of my food is hunted & self farmed.  If the dollar collapsed tomorrow I wouldn't notice it well in to next year.  That said my top priority is a peace driven non-interventionist foreign policy followed by first amendment and freedom of expression.  I feel safe with both those issues when it comes to Bernie & Trump.


Many people that supported Bernie flocked to Trump. So you supporting both isn't out of the ordinary.

If the dollar does collapse it will probably affect you. People will probably flock to your area looking for food, leaving less for you. People will also get desperate and bad things happen. You want other people people to finacially succeed and not just you. So economics should be a priority for you too. Unless your area is so hidden that its undiscoverable.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> "We" I doubt you are ANTIFA. They'd piss on you too.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


antifa is not an organization


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Must be why he is planning to rejoin the Paris Agreement



Paris agreement is a a money laundering operation amongst globalist, litterally does nothing to protect the environment.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> "We" I doubt you are ANTIFA. They'd piss on you too.


.. oh I sorry you misunderstood .. I’m not claiming to be ANTIFA.. if I were to claim to be part of a fictional group..  I’ll be in the illuminati or that weird cult that are secretly reptiles .. duh


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> antifa is not an organization



You're right my apologies. Terrorist group is a better description I should have worded that better.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suffocation.


Ah yes, I must be suffocating, just like all my coworkers at my job. We all wear masks, I wear a surgical , they wear cloth based.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> you literally have a vladimir putin profile picture



It's hilarious your primitive brain is only capable of classifying every human in the world as either Nazi or not-Nazi.  Putin is a Slav and the Nazis wanted to conquer them and use Slavs as slave labor for expansion in the war effort, while White/Slav/Christians in Russia were simultaneously being attacked on a dual front internally.

Nazis in WW2 were fighting against Jews, while both Nazis and Jews were fighting against ethnic Russians/Slavs.  The Slavs/Ethnic Russians are definitely not Nazis and are the actual victim of WW2, unlike what the fake news media claims.  They were murdered to the tune of 20+ million.  They were definitely not Nazis, nor were they murdered by Nazis:


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> ANTIFA is not America, ANTIFA is a criminal organization. That's actually just kind of just a stupid comment. that's like saying anyone in Italy is in the Mafia.


Never said Antifa is America. Honestly, only glance at your comment and didn't know you were talking about a specific group. That said,



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Oh wait they would probably make fun of your accent and give you a beating and piss on you.


Proof for people that are doing this?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Many people that supported Bernie flocked to Trump. So you supporting both isn't out of the ordinary.
> 
> If the dollar does collapse it will probably affect you. People will probably flock to your area looking for food, leaving less for you. People will also get desperate and bad things happen. You want other people people to finacially succeed and not just you. So economics should be a priority for you too. Unless your area is so hidden that its undiscoverable.



Kudos for being in the 1% who can understand the overlap does happen.  The next nearest human is 14 miles from me and my dwelling is a decommissioned hardened government structure purchased at auction.  I don't entirely discount economics, it is not my priority.  I am a hunter, a crafter, I enjoy bartering.  I engage with currency as a little as possible, I grew up piss poor and became a engineer.  Buying things was never a option for me as a kid, I learned how to DIY or acquire it other ways.    You know what is good for the economy? Not being in a perpetual war. My economic beliefs are so out of the mainstream it would be pointless for me to engage in that as a primary voting issue.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Kudos for being in the 1% who can understand the overlap does happen.  The next nearest human is 14 miles from me and my dwelling is a decommissioned hardened government structure purchased at auction.  I don't entirely discount economics, it is not my priority.  I am a hunter, a crafter, I enjoy bartering.  I engage with currency as a little as possible, I grew up piss poor and became a engineer.  Buying things was never a option for me as a kid, I learned how to DIY or acquire it other ways.    You know what is good for the economy? Not being in a perpetual war.


Yup me too no people for miles..that’s why xenophobia come easy for people like us.Jimbo ..we don’t need to deal with “other” kinds of people  or accept any idea that we didn’t hear from our grandpa..


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

I love how this "djpannda" guy's entire political theory is based on the idea that minorities should act as white people stalkers - find some random white guy, follow him to his house, insist on coming in and hanging out, and if neither party thinks this sounds like a good idea, then you're both racist.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I love how this "djpannda" guy's entire political theory is based on the idea that minorities should act as white people stalkers - find some random white guy, follow him to his house, insist on coming in and hanging out, and if neither party thinks this sounds like a good idea, then you're both racist.


No I agree with you the races should never mix... the master Russian race needs to stay pure..


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

Never thought I needed this much sarcasm in my life.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I love how this "djpannda" guy's entire political theory is based on the idea that minorities should act as white people stalkers - find some random white guy, follow him to his house, insist on coming in and hanging out, and if neither party thinks this sounds like a good idea, then you're both racist.


And that crazy ...white people being friends with minorities.. I mean if that happened most of rasicism.. would be gone .because we can see how they are treated in life . no we don’t want that


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

That's the problem with the left - it's full of lying hypocrites, that and lots of dumb people who aren't capable of any type of logic and reasoning.

Example:  if you have any type of preference for race or phenotype of girlfriend or mating partner, preference itself is technically racism in this context because you're subconsciously saying one group is better or worse than another, and just about everyone has a preference.

So, in reality, virtually everyone is racist.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Kudos for being in the 1% who can understand the overlap does happen.  The next nearest human is 14 miles from me and my dwelling is a decommissioned hardened government structure purchased at auction.  I don't entirely discount economics, it is not my priority.  I am a hunter, a crafter, I enjoy bartering.  I engage with currency as a little as possible, I grew up piss poor and became a engineer.  Buying things was never a option for me as a kid, I learned how to DIY or acquire it other ways.    You know what is good for the economy? Not being in a perpetual war. My economic beliefs are so out of the mainstream it would be pointless for me to engage in that as a primary voting issue.


You are living the life. Not tied down to currency and to the banks. If I was in your situation though, I would still care about econ because I want to find the best solution for the majority people. Not many people have your living situation. And I can't only think and vote only for myself. 

We ended up turning our earth of trees, grasslands and forests into one giant shopping mall which is what many people live in and barely farm and hunt anymore. Nothing but store after store when you drive down the road. Though I'm not complaining. 

People right now are tired of wars and want them to end. Emotionally, financially its just bad.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> That's the problem with the left - it's full of lying hypocrites, that and lots of dumb people who aren't capable of any type of logic and reasoning.
> 
> Example:  if you have any type of preference for race or phenotype of girlfriend or mating partner, preference itself is technically racism in this context because you're subconsciously saying one group is better or worse than another, and just about everyone has a preference.


You tell those liberals!!! .They don’t understand that Us white can justify racism .. heck we been doing it for hundreds of years


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I love how this "djpannda" guy's entire political theory is based on the idea that minorities should act as white people stalkers - find some random white guy, follow him to his house, insist on coming in and hanging out, and if neither party thinks this sounds like a good idea, then you're both racist.



Let this sink in, they are leaving a place at risk of their life with no white people, to a place with white people who are going to claim are oppressing them. 

"White flight" IE, white people tripping over themselves to stay away from people who are accusing them of every crime possible is considered a issue.  That is beyond stockholm syndrome, that is a kinky stockholm fetish. If I believe a person, or group is mistreating me or detrimental to my life I separate myself from their vicinity.  I don't get on zillow and try and figure out where they went.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> It's funny because lots of libtards actually agree with what I just said.  They just propose that this human nature that exists in everyone should require people to be forcibly brainwashed against their will to 'fix' it.


Yup it’s ok because it human nature to hate and kill things that are different ...duh


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

I think you've outted yourself as a non-utilitarian and are just operating entirely from the viewpoint of self-serving dirtbag that is proposing things that you think will solely benefit yourself without giving a fuck about how it affects anyone else.  Typical lib.

The world doesn't owe you anything, nor do you get to play God over other people's lives.  You have an out of control ego that believes what you think is 'the way' and everyone else is an idiot and lesser for not agreeing with you.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I think you've outted yourself as a non-utilitarian and are just operating entirely from the viewpoint of self-serving dirtbag that is proposing things that you think will solely benefit yourself without giving a fuck about how it affects anyone else.  Typical lib.


.. I think he’s talking to you jimbo.. you going to let the Russki talk to you like that..


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)




----------



## Windaga (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> It sounds like your malfunction is that you're watching state run propaganda designed specifically to target bimbos like "The View" instead of following the science that shows clear cut, massive voter fraud in every swing state.  Trump won 2020 in a landslide far higher than the 2016 election vs Hillary Clinton:
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot
> 
> Anyone trying to prop up this illegitimate Biden regime is an enemy combatant.



Malfunction? Based on what? The fact that I said a 40 year old man was dragging politics into my second grade class and that his vitrolic spewing left me, and my second grade class, speechless?

I'd appreciate if you didn't assume my political affiliation, or where I get my news from for that matter, based on a congratulatory statement or an anecdote; save your petty name calling and accusations for someone that's willing to run around in circles with you. I've zero ties to any party, nor do I care for the disgusting attitudes and mocking this election has brought out. My statement was highlighting an issue with the way adults are treating this. More specifically - politics has no place in a second graders classroom, and to think it does, regardless of your party, displays a level of horror that goes beyond my comprehension. 

The classroom, especially the second grade classroom, is a place of learning, not a theatre for pushing politics.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Some fox news crap



The weirdos in this thread are the most un-woke, 'woke' leftists I've ever seen.  It's mainstream history the US media being entirely run by the CIA, but the idiots constantly reference mainstream media CIA propaganda as 'fact' trying to back up their warped views while also pretending to be against 'the man' at the same time.

They're insane - pretending to be against the establishment while they are the establishment constantly spamming CIA propaganda as the arbiter of truth.  Yet the CIA's entire mission goal is to distort and lie.  Have you not yet figured out this thing called "divide and conquer" strategy?

The bankers create a central bank, issue debt based money to enslave people through usury, then try to prevent uprisings from the peon slaves by playing them off against each other.  It doesn't really matter if you hate white people for whatever reason, the #1 enemy is always going to be the usury bankers that issue money out of thin air...since the days of Jesus throwing them out of the temple.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Windaga said:


> Malfunction? Based on what? The fact that I said a 40 year old man was dragging politics into my second grade class and that his vitrolic spewing left me, and my second grade class, speechless?
> 
> I'd appreciate if you didn't assume my political affiliation, or where I get my news from for that matter, based on a congratulatory statement or an anecdote; save your petty name calling and accusations for someone that's willing to run around in circles with you. I've zero ties to any party, nor do I care for the disgusting attitudes and mocking this election has brought out. My statement was highlighting an issue with the way adults are treating this. More specifically - politics has no place in a second graders classroom, and to think it does, regardless of your party, displays a level of horror that goes beyond my comprehension.
> 
> The classroom, especially the second grade classroom, is a place of learning, not a theatre for pushing politics.





Joom said:


> Listen folks, here's how you defeat fascists. You keep pointing out their buffoonery and ignorance to the point where they just seem like a homeless guy on a street corner raving about nonsense so nobody takes their rhetoric seriously.



It's hard to fathom that someone would say you have a problem because you've been subject to appalling behavior from wingnuts. I'm so sorry you had that happen. I sincerely hope this parent was banned from the school premises, because not only is it inappropriate, it's dangerous to the minds of children you're trying to educate. For a parent to do that to a second grade class is beyond reprehensible. What a horrible example to set for such impressionable minds.


r0achtheunsavory said:


> They're clinically insane


I mean seriously, this guy here is so detached from reality and totally lacks self awareness that it's actually scary. But then again, crazy people don't think they're crazy, and it's everyone else. What's worse is that more and more like him are coming out of the woodwork to sow fear and spread disinformation. It's almost like a weird fetish.

Also, the joke of the video is that the Republicans are doing what they said back in 2018 about what the Democrats would do in 2020. It's called glaring hypocrisy. But this is how narcissists work; they don't get jokes about themselves. It's kinda sad that I have to explain this.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Windaga said:


> Malfunction? Based on what? The fact that I said a 40 year old man was dragging politics into my second grade class and that his vitrolic spewing left me, and my second grade class, speechless?



All you're doing is displaying how much of a sheltered life divorced from reality you live in.  This is insanely common in modern western women who are the most privileged creatures to have ever walked the earth.  This is where words like "Karen" came from - being so sheltered that you're pretending trivial etiquette is some type of national emergency.

If you had grown up as a male, the simple act of going to school at all as a child would have you in fear of being beaten up by some kid two years older than you or some other much more annoying problem.  Yea, girls can be mean to one another, but male kids punch each other in the face and knock out your teeth.

If you had to of dealt with any problems like this as a male, then you would see this meaningless etiquette stuff for what it is, trivial and meaningless.  What's fascinating is that you don't understand an illegal coup plot has occurred and the most voter fraud ever in the history of the planet with the CIA installing a puppet that lost.

When things like this occur in other nations, usually you see things like civil wars shortly after and mortars flying through windows and people exploding, but you're....worried about....etiquette HAHAHAHAHA.  This is how removed from reality people are now.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

No, you're right, we should just let batshit insane parents sit in on their child's class so they can spread propaganda.


r0achtheunsavory said:


> If you had grown up as a male, the simple act of going to school at all as a child would have you in fear of being beaten up by some kid two years older


Projecting much? I never had this problem going to school. Things are starting make sense, and I'm getting a good visualization of what kind of person you are in real life. I can just about guarantee you're a shrimp with an inferiority complex. No wonder you spread false rhetoric for a fascist; you want power in a world where you're absolutely powerless. How pathetic. "U R WOMAN AND INFERIOR" Lol...just, wow.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Keep dreaming.  I played sports and all that crap when I was younger and football in high school, so I wasn't a helpless soy leftist or something like you guys.  But most males growing up have to deal with fights and all that while women generally don't.

Men are put into a situation where you have to fight for your existence, then women just show up at the finish line and say "ah, I'll just take whoever the winner is".  I actually could be wrong, because I'm probably older than a lot of you antifa teenagers in this thread.

Kids growing up these days probably just walk around like vegetables looking at phones and never have to deal with any hierachy of fighting or anything like that.  Then just walk home and sink into their chair as an amorphous blob person and post how life is hard and the patriarchy on Twitter.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

snipped


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Nobody agrees with him.  Everyone knows this forum is littered with leftist authoritarians that think they should be allowed to force people how to think, how to act, and who they can associate with.  They're all anti-freedom commies.


Big claim, prove it. Because I'm pretty sure most of the leftists here aren't tankies
and if you don't know what a tankie is, you don't know political thought all that well.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Keep dreaming. I played sports and all that crap when I was younger and football in high school, so I wasn't a helpless soy leftist or something like you guys. But most males growing up have to deal with fights and all that while women generally don't.


That's right, keep trying to prove your masculinity. It's being challenged now and you gotta prove what a mayun you are. You played some sportsball, huh? Proud of ya, champ. Nothing like a rousing, manly game of getting your face rammed into the dirt and sniffing jock strap every day of the week. It's such a manly thing to be surrounded by those sweaty, grass stained boys, huh? Things are making even more sense, too. I think I'm seeing where the brain damage came from, and why you're exuding so much insecurity.



r0achtheunsavory said:


> This forum is so outside of the norm it's comical.


It's a forum for video games, so I don't understand why you're bitching about it not being a carbon copy of a political site. You really are quite the whackjob. If you don't like a site for video games not being full of right wing extremists, there's always /pol/.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Big claim, prove it. Because I'm pretty sure most of the leftists here aren't tankies



Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart. If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain."

I see you have all of like a three, maybe a four hair mustache, so you're pushing around 16 or 18 or something now.  When I was your age, I was a dumbass too.  In fact, it's not a stretch to say anyone under the age of 25 is a potato.  This is why you're not allowed to be president until 35.

While you can do math at the age of 18, you don't start to develop any sort of wisdom WHATSOEVER until around 25, and even then, not much.  Not till around 30-35 does a man have any real sort of thought process above a cat that licks anti-freeze off the pavement.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> In fact, it's not a stretch to say anyone under the age of 25 is a potato.


I...I think I'll stay out of this.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart. If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain."


Nice boomer quote. That's crap my grandmother says. Except the thing is, the ones on the right lost due to incompetence and are dropping like flies because they're too stupid to wear a mask. You're not convincing anyone that you have a brain.


r0achtheunsavory said:


> anyone under the age of 25 is a potato


Good thing I'm older than 25.



r0achtheunsavory said:


> you don't start to develop any sort of wisdom WHATSOEVER until around 25


That's a funny way to describe your delusions.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> All you're doing is displaying how much of a sheltered life divorced from reality you live in.  This is insanely common in modern western women who are the most privileged creatures to have ever walked the earth.  This is where words like "Karen" came from - being so sheltered that you're pretending trivial etiquette is some type of national emergency.
> 
> If you had grown up as a male, the simple act of going to school at all as a child would have you in fear of being beaten up by some kid two years older than you or some other much more annoying problem.  Yea, girls can be mean to one another, but male kids punch each other in the face and knock out your teeth.
> 
> ...


Are you even paying attention to what she's saying or are you just arguing.

Its like you are finding any excuse to forcibly shove in the stuff you learned from some youtube video or article about western women, feminism & anything that has to do with the culture war, just to show off how smart you are that you learned these things. And completely not paying attention to what she said. You just wanna argue and disagree.

It's like in your head you wanted to argue about how men have it rough, you already had it predestined what you were going to rebuttle with even before she even gave a response, and when she did respond with something that had nothing to do with that topic you somehow managed to forcibly shove it in, which makes your comment so out of place.

What does sheltered life, Karen's, privileged modern western women have anything to do with a man coming into the second grade about politics? When it should be a place to educate 7 year old kids about math and spelling. Don't trump supporters get mad when people kneel in sports or bring politics in movies? Then why bring politics in a second grade classroom when the kids are too young for that topic.

Address what she is saying.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> That's a funny way to describe your delusions.



Yes, because there are so many famous 25 and younger philosphers.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> While you can do math at the age of 18, you don't start to develop any sort of wisdom WHATSOEVER until around 25, and even then, not much.  Not till around 30-35 does a man have any real sort of thought process above a cat that licks anti-freeze off the pavement.



This, the reason Democrats are always trying to lower the voting age and mail ballots to the lazy and so inept they don't have proof of who they are.

Voting age should be raised to 30, the 19th amendment repealed and ballots are only available attached to a tax return.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> mail ballots to the lazy


Lol, are we a little buttmad that that's why Trump lost? Like I said, maybe he shouldn't have convinced you mouth breathers that it was going to be ineffective.


jimbo13 said:


> Voting age should be raised to 30, the 19th amendment repealed and ballots are only available attached to a tax return.


Literally advocating for anti-democracy. You and your ilk are a cancer on this country.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> This, the reason Democrats are always trying to lower the voting age and mail ballots to the lazy and so inept they don't have proof of who they are.
> 
> Voting age should be raised to 30, the 19th amendment repealed and ballots are only available attached to a tax return.



You forgot being a land owner.  One of the commies earlier was trying to pretend that requirement was entirely about racism or some other nonsense, when in reality, if you allow everyone to vote, people who are broke just vote to steal from people with more than them, even if it's only slightly more.

So being a landowner, homeowner, or whatever, is just making sure people have some type of stake in the game as a communism prevention mechanism.  Some people are broke because they were born to a poor family, but a huge amount of people are broke entirely due to bad decision making and lack of applying themselves.

There are pros and cons to allowing destitute people to vote or not, but usually there are more pros to not allowing literal homeless people to vote because all they want is transfer payments from someone else (communism).


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart. If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain."


oh... you think I'm a liberal and referring to liberals.
I'm sorry but I'm not. I'm not what you think at all. if you think liberals support what I support. I'm sorry but you would be unfortunately and painful wrong. Liberals are moderate right. Not really left by any means on the real social scale.
While on very few subject we have common agreements. To say the least, I'm a pretty different monster. You claim liberals are socialists or communist. Which is hilarious, because as at least as socialist. Yeah no, they really aren't.




r0achtheunsavory said:


> While you can do math at the age of 18, you don't start to develop any sort of wisdom WHATSOEVER until around 25, and even then, not much.  Not till around 30-35 does a man have any real sort of thought process above a cat that licks anti-freeze off the pavement.


I've seen grown adults dumber than me. Just because passage of time exists, doesn't mean people use that time well.

If anything, I'm more likely more emotionally mature and secure than you considerations your clear masculine insecurity that oozes out of you. and the fact that my generation and perhaps the generation behind me, and the people beyond me have access to the internet, who have their own interests and curiosity's that enable them. Rather than have the school system kill it entirely. I'd argue you could be less informed than those who grown up with those tools.
Oh by the way, nice dodge. I asked you to prove it, and instead you go on a rant about something else.
just like orange man I see.
What about free thought again?


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> You forgot being a land owner.


And white and male. Those are the two most important. We don't want no darkies or woman folk influencing the polls. Why do I get the feeling you're A. not a homeowner, and B. not employed?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> This, the reason Democrats are always trying to lower the voting age and mail ballots to the lazy and so inept they don't have proof of who they are.
> 
> Voting age should be raised to 30, the 19th amendment repealed and ballots are only available attached to a tax return.


Hold up. While I agree with the first paragraph and would be okay with most of the second, I'd rather we abolish taxes. Taxation is theft.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> citing communist manifesto



If it was required being a home owner to vote, how is that 'anti-female'?  Does anything you say make sense?


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Hold up. While I agree with the first paragraph and would be okay with most of the second, I'd rather we abolish taxes. Taxation is theft.


Do you see the idiocy you're in support of yet? These people want to take rights away from you.



r0achtheunsavory said:


> If it was required being a home owner to vote, how is that 'anti-female'? Does anything you say make sense? I think women on average even make more than men now.


You are a narcissist, aren't you? You can't even recognize when someone's making satire out of you.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

"Satire"?  It's just dumb leftist spam everyone has seen 10,000x before.  That's not satire.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 10, 2020)

You are just like cage lady. Everyone got annoyed with that bitch both liberals and conservatives. She like a robot on auto pilot repeating conservative phrases without addressing or paying attention what the others are saying like what a normal human does.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> "Satire"?  It's just dumb leftist spam everyone has seen 10,000x before.  That's not satire.


Caricatures are a form of satirical comedy. But I don't have a canvas, so text works.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> You forgot being a land owner.  One of the commies earlier was trying to pretend that requirement was entirely about racism or some other nonsense, when in reality, if you allow everyone to vote, people who are broke just vote to steal from people with more than them, even if it's only slightly more.


Also pretty sure your mixing liberals and commies. I would be more... careful about your word choice. You don't know the consequences it could bring.
Oh and that racism thing... we'll get to that



r0achtheunsavory said:


> So being a landowner, homeowner, or whatever, is just making sure people have some type of stake in the game as a communism prevention mechanism.



Huh... So... communes don't exist? Roommates don't exist?
If we take communism at what it really means. A classless, moneyless state, where people provide what they can and take what they need as a collective. Since you know, people generally want to help out other people. If that was the intended measure (which it wasn't) it's failing pretty badly

Now, to that statement I held


r0achtheunsavory said:


> You forgot being a land owner.  One of the commies earlier was trying to pretend that requirement was entirely about racism or some other nonsense, when in reality, if you allow everyone to vote, people who are broke just vote to steal from people with more than them, even if it's only slightly more.


Did you forget black people couldn't own land at the time? And that land has money? I ask you, who's better off. One that has land? That with proper care the value increases overtime. Or a person without land. Those from previous generations, that owed land back then, likely have decent to at least a okay place. While black people, they started without owning land. I wonder how that effects things?


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> black people weren't able to buy land.


That's what he's saying without saying it. He's a nationalist. He knows if he outright says "black people shouldn't own land" he'll get booted. He's posted anti-Semitic rhetoric, too, along with misogyny.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

As for the "taxation is theft" claim.  Since this thread has a lot of intellectual lightweights who are not going to be able to argue the realistic pros and cons of this issue. I guess I will have to tackle it.

The earth for all intents and purposes is a closed ecosystem caged deathmatch.  War is the natural state of affairs and not peace in natural selection, of which humans are a part of.  It's a complicated affair, but some would argue that even though people claim their rights are afforded to them by "God", your real immediate rights are afforded to you by protection from the tribe, of which you have to provide for the common defense - hence taxes.

Since I touched upon the whole "tribe" thing.  That's another one the libtards don't understand.  The common evolution of human group is individual > family > village/tribe > city state all based upon a common ethnic group.  Then potentially more city states forming a nation.  In the natural world, ethnonationalism is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is, while libtards claim it's an unnatural abomination (hint: libtards are always wrong).


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> As for the "taxation is theft" claim.  Since this thread has a lot of intellectual lightweights who are not going to be able to argue the realistic pros and cons of this issue. I guess I will have to tackle it.
> 
> The earth for all intents and purposes is a closed ecosystem caged deathmatch.  War is the natural state of affairs and not peace in natural selection, of which humans are a part of.  It's a complicated affair, but some would argue that even though people claim their rights are afforded to them by "God", your real immediate rights are afforded to you by protection from the tribe, of which you have to provide for the common defense - hence taxes.
> 
> Since I touched upon the whole "tribe" thing.  That's another one the libtards don't understand.  The common evolution of human group is individual > family > village/tribe > city state all based upon a common ethnic group.  Then potentially more city states forming a nation.  In the natural world, ethnonationalism is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is, while libtards claim it's an unnatural abomination (hint: libtards are always wrong).


So... essentially you just outed yourself as a nationalist and racist.
Congrats on playing yourself.
ethnonationalism=nationalism defined within ethnicity
aka race
_slow claps_
So... what about the left being racist again?


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Since I touched upon the whole "tribe" thing. That's another one the libtards don't understand. The common evolution of human group is individual > family > village/tribe > city state all based upon a common ethnic group. Then potentially more city states forming a nation. In the natural world, ethnonationalism is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is, while libtards claim it's an unnatural abomination (hint: libtards are always wrong).


And here's the ethnostate rhetoric, straight out of the "Neo-Nazis For Dummies" handbook. I actually pity you, because as time goes by, you and this line of thinking will be replaced as you die miserable and afraid. You're on your way out, and so is this garbage that impedes the advancement of the human race. Next you're gonna be on here in support of inbreeding as a means to preserve your lineage's purity.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Nice try, leftist propaganda liar.  What I typed is mainstream sociology 101.  And you wonder why nobody on the earth likes leftists?  When you type textbook sociology 101 and they're like WAH WAH EVERYTHING IS RACIST.  No race was even mentioned in the example.  The history of human evolution and city states are racist!  Fucking hilarious.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

I don't remember who said it, but Trump technically only has 304 electoral votes in 2016. Not 306.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Did you forget black people couldn't own land at the time? And that land has money? I ask you, who's better off. One that has land? That with proper care the value increases overtime. Or a person without land. Those from previous generations, that owed land back then, likely have decent to at least a okay place. While black people, they started without owning land. I wonder how that effects things?




*False.*

*Anthony Johnson* (b. c. 1600 – d. 1670) was a black Angolan known for achieving wealth in the early 17th-century Colony of Virginia. He was one of the first African American property owners and had his right to legally own a slave recognized by the Virginia courts. Held as an indentured servant in 1621, he earned his freedom after several years, and was granted land by the colony

In fact per capita slave ownership was more common place amongst blacks than it was whites.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> N*ice try, leftist propaganda liar. * What I typed is mainstream sociology 101.  And you wonder why nobody on the earth likes leftists?  When you type textbook sociology 101 and they're like WAH WAH EVERYTHING IS RACIST.  *No race was even mentioned in the example. * Fucking hilarious.





r0achtheunsavory said:


> As for the "taxation is theft" claim.  Since this thread has a lot of intellectual lightweights who are not going to be able to argue the realistic pros and cons of this issue. I guess I will have to tackle it.
> 
> The earth for all intents and purposes is a closed ecosystem caged deathmatch.  War is the natural state of affairs and not peace in natural selection, of which humans are a part of.  It's a complicated affair, but some would argue that even though people claim their rights are afforded to them by "God", your real immediate rights are afforded to you by protection from the tribe, of which you have to provide for the common defense - hence taxes.
> 
> Since I touched upon the whole "tribe" thing.  That's another one the libtards don't understand.  The common evolution of human group is individual > family > village/tribe > city state all based upon a common ethnic group.  Then potentially more city states forming a nation.  In the natural world, *ethnonationalism *is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is, while libtards claim it's an unnatural abomination (hint: libtards are always wrong).


"Ethnic nationalism, also known as ethnonationalism, is a form of *nationalism *wherein the nation and nationality are defined in terms of *ethnicity*, with emphasis on ethnocentric approach to various political issues related to national affirmation of a particular ethnic group."


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> "Ethnic nationalism, also known as ethnonationalism, is a form of *nationalism *wherein the nation and nationality are defined in terms of *ethnicity*, with emphasis on ethnocentric approach to various political issues related to national affirmation of a particular ethnic group."



And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this.  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.

Oh, hey look.  Those Japanese and Chinese in the year 2020 are practicing ethnonationalism.  But that's perfectly fine! Because....I have no idea....I'm a leftist...only white people can be racist.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> I don't remember who said it, but Trump technically only has 304 electoral votes in 2016. Not 306.



There were two faithless electors who didn't vote as required in the electoral college, however the supreme court later ruled they weren't allowed to do that so I don't know who is technically right.  It was 304 for that night but I don't if the supreme courts decisions changed that to 306 retroactively.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.


Never needed to claim that. Nor have not.



r0achtheunsavory said:


> As for the "taxation is theft" claim.  Since this thread has a lot of intellectual lightweights who are not going to be able to argue the realistic pros and cons of this issue. I guess I will have to tackle it.
> 
> The earth for all intents and purposes is a closed ecosystem caged deathmatch.  War is the natural state of affairs and not peace in natural selection, of which humans are a part of.  It's a complicated affair, but some would argue that even though people claim their rights are afforded to them by "God", your real immediate rights are afforded to you by protection from the tribe, of which you have to provide for the common defense - hence taxes.
> 
> Since I touched upon the whole "tribe" thing.  That's another one the libtards don't understand.  The common evolution of human group is individual > family > village/tribe > city state all based upon a common ethnic group.  Then potentially more city states forming a nation.*  In the natural world, ethnonationalism is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is*, while libtards claim it's an unnatural abomination (hint: libtards are always wrong).


This is your belief no? that it's the only functioning human group?
When I'll tell you now. No it's not. And oh by the way, you believing that, and believing that ethnonationalism is the only way for people to exist. Given your only by that statement. Makes you racist.
Argue with me this is not racist. Don't dodge, you bore me when you do.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Never needed to claim that. Nor have not.
> 
> 
> This is your belief no? that it's the only functioning human group?
> ...



Ethnonationalism IMO is inherently inappropriate "A little late" for the United States, but there is nothing inherently wrong with ethnonationalism and having a homogenous culture.  And it is not racist to believe it functions in a healthier manner than multiculturalism. 

Ethnonationalism works just fine in Japan.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> This is your belief no? that it's the only functioning human group?



Lol.  Having weirdo, uneducated children on the internet who look like they're under 18 call you "racist" for discussing textbook sociology 101 is not much of a problem for me.  You can cut to the chase and just admit the only reason you're typing jack shit at all is to try and pretend to be smarter than someone that you aren't, so resorted to some nebulous, moral bullshit argument nobody gives a damn about.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Lol.  Having weirdo, uneducated children on the internet who look like they're under 18 call you "racist" for discussing textbook sociology 101 is not much of a problem for me.  You can cut to the chase and just admit the only reason you're typing jack shit at all is to try and pretend to be smarter than someone that you aren't, so resorted to some nebulous, moral bullshit argument nobody gives a damn about.


So your giving up yes?
I mean you still haven't refuted my statement.
Is it because your copium has dried up?
Oh for anyone who wants to know. Here's what I said. (including quotes I used in post)




monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.
> ...


I'll just keep repost this if you keep ignoring.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

For the sake of future argument, I would like everyone in this thread to assume I operate entirely with a lizard brain and just shoot a nuclear missle at anyone who gets in my way and take what I want because NOBODY wants to hear this whining ass "WAH WAH I'm the most moral libtard ever and superior to everyone else. Just ignore the whole pro-abortion murder stance and giant pentagram tattoo and Moloch statue over there".


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> For the sake of future argument, I would like everyone in this thread to assume I operate entirely with a lizard brain and just shoot a nuclear missle at anyone who gets in my way and take what I want because NOBODY wants to hear this whining ass "WAH WAH I'm the most moral libtard ever and superior to everyone else. Just ignore the whole pro-abortion murder stance and giant pentagram tattoo and Moloch statue over there".


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart.* If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain.*"
> 
> I see you have all of like a three, maybe a four hair mustache, so you're pushing around 16 or 18 or something now.  When I was your age, I was a dumbass too.  In fact, it's not a stretch to say anyone under the age of 25 is a potato.  This is why you're not allowed to be president until 35.
> 
> While you can do math at the age of 18, you don't start to develop any sort of wisdom WHATSOEVER until around 25, and even then, not much.  Not till around 30-35 does a man have any real sort of thought process above a cat that licks anti-freeze off the pavement.






r0achtheunsavory said:


> For the sake of future argument, I would like everyone in this thread to assume I operate entirely with a *lizard brain *and just shoot a nuclear missle at anyone who gets in my way and take what I want because NOBODY wants to hear this whining ass "WAH WAH I'm the most moral libtard ever and superior to everyone else. Just ignore the whole pro-abortion murder stance and giant pentagram tattoo and Moloch statue over there".


So from your statements...
*you got a lizard brain right?*
I'll pass on your lizard brain.
I mean you stated your right wing in the past
just saying


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So from your statements...
> *you got a lizard brain right?*
> I'll pass on your lizard brain.
> I mean you stated your right wing



If you understood basic accepted science about human evolution you wouldn't think you sounded so clever there.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If you understood basic accepted science about human evolution you wouldn't think you sounded so clever there.


and if you knew the phase lizard brain, which is a substitute for stupid. you wouldn't feel so smart. Surely what you're saying isn't stupid. No sarcasm here.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> and if you knew the phase lizard brain, which is a substitute for stupid. you wouldn't feel so smart.



The only people using the _phrase_ lizard brain as a substitute for stupid are stupid people who don't realize what they are saying.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

This is a fucking joke.  They authorized a voter fraud investigation and five seconds later the guy who is supposed to investigate resigns.  These are supposed to be the top cops of the land, but they're like, "Ah, oh, shit.  Don't want the Clintons and Biden crime family to try and kill me.  I'm outta here!"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ag-william-barr-authorizes-justice-department-probe-voter-fraud


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The only people using the _phrase_ lizard brain as a substitute for stupid are stupid people who don't realize what they are saying.


Yes you're right. I've totally never heard in writing an author calling a character lizard brained. Or some character in that universe saying that they (referring to another character) have a lizard brain.
Oh wait. No... I have.
It's more fun to say "you have a lizard brain"
than just calling you outright stupid.
it has the same meaning. Different phrasing.





r0achtheunsavory said:


> This is a fucking joke.  They authorized a voter fraud investigation and five seconds later the guy who is supposed to investigate resigns.  These are supposed to be the top cops of the land, but they're like, "Ah, oh, shit.  Don't want the Clintons and Biden crime family to try and kill me.  I'm outta here!"
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ag-william-barr-authorizes-justice-department-probe-voter-fraud


So... still not going to refute that claim?
Oh speaking of which. you also dodged another claim.
For each argument you dodge, I'll add it on the list.



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.
> ...


Now the next thing they failed to counter argue.



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart.* If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain.*"
> ...


I wonder what is causing you to side step my arguments? I surely believe you can reply to them!
I believe in you @r0achtheunsavory
know you can do it!


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I wonder what is causing you to side step my arguments? I surely believe you can reply to them!
> I believe in you
> know you can do it!


----------



## Taleweaver (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> This is a fucking joke.  They authorized a voter fraud investigation and five seconds later the guy who is supposed to investigate resigns.  These are supposed to be the top cops of the land, but they're like, "Ah, oh, shit.  Don't want the Clintons and Biden crime family to try and kill me.  I'm outta here!"
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ag-william-barr-authorizes-justice-department-probe-voter-fraud



Meanwhile, in THIS reality, Richard Pilger resigned in protest over William Barr's decision to allow prosecutors to examine allegations of voting irregularities  before the elections are even finished/certified.

A source that isn't just some anonymous guy's opinion:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/09/politics/william-barr-voting-irregularities/index.html


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> monkeyman4412 said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder what is causing you to side step my arguments? I surely believe you can reply to them!
> ...



Ah I see, a smart ass. I said reply, they replied...Strange that they still haven't refuted my arguments. One would think they wouldn't want to be called racist and defend themselves no? Or is it because you actually are indeed racist? And stupid?



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.
> ...


Now the next thing they failed to counter argue.



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart.* If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain.*"
> ...


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)




----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> A source that isn't just some anonymous guy's opinion



CNN is not a 'news' site.  Only 0 IQ leftists believe Operation Mockingbird, state run TV is "news".


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

@r0achtheunsavory
Still avoiding?
Again, I thought you weren't racist? I thought you were smarter than us younger people that are left leaning here. Come on, prove me wrong through refuting my arguments below.
or is it that your all bark, and no bite?




monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.
> ...


Now the next thing they failed to counter argue.



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart.* If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain.*"
> ...


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Meanwhile, in THIS reality, Richard Pilger resigned in protest over William Barr's decision to allow prosecutors to examine allegations of voting irregularities  before the elections are even finished/certified.
> 
> A source that isn't just some anonymous guy's opinion:
> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/09/politics/william-barr-voting-irregularities/index.html



CNN is a propaganda network staffed nearly entirely by homosexual CIA interns and their beard Wolf from Israeli intelligence.  





monkeyman4412 said:


> @r0achtheunsavory
> Still avoiding?



He is not avoiding you, he is ignoring you because your arguments are lame and you lack a base to even understand what he is talking about.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

As several comments on the article mentioned, Barr opening this "fraud investigation" is not actually a good thing because Barr is a piece of shit who was involved with Epstein and is criminal as hell.

All it means is that the scumbags at CNN and Fox spamming "we can't see any evidence of voter fraud anywhere!" completely failed, the public doesn't recognize Biden as legit, and it would lead to a civil war if they keep trying to illegitimately install him.  So now they're creating a hoax 'investigation' where nobody will investigate anything and then just say, "looks legit to me!".

A fake investigation is stupid and pointless because people already saw so much evidence whatever they say pretending the election is legit doesn't matter.  We are now in a war against an illegal, illegitimate, occupying force and there's no way in hell they're fooling anyone out of it with lies.

How will it resolve?  Probably with both sides telling the same military to shoot the other guy.  Woops!  They're all on Trump's side.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> He is not avoiding you, he is ignoring you because your arguments are lame and you lack a base to even understand what he is talking about.


Oh I'm sorry. I forgot. you still failed to counter argue my point.

So I guess it's time to point out this then.



jimbo13 said:


> The only people using the _phrase_ lizard brain as a substitute for stupid are stupid people who don't realize what they are saying.


"Yes you're right. I've totally never heard in writing an author calling a character lizard brained. Or some character in that universe saying that they (referring to another character) have a lizard brain.
Oh wait. No... I have.
It's more fun to say 'you have a lizard brain'
than just calling you outright stupid.
it has the same meaning. Different phrasing."

come now.
refute my point. If it's so lame, and so "baseless" then this should be easy to refute yes?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@r0achtheunsavory
Still talking somethin else.
I can do this all the time. Would you like me to do that?
carry this where ever you go on this part of the forms? If I was saying something untrue, it should be easy to refute yes?




monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.
> ...


Now the next thing they failed to counter argue.



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart.* If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain.*"
> ...


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh I'm sorry. I forgot. you still failed to counter argue my point.
> 
> So I guess it's time to point out this then.
> 
> ...



No thanks, there are far more interesting lefties that are smarter than you to argue with.  I played this level 2011ish. You win /forfeit.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Listen, moleman.  We have grown adults here trying to do grown adult things


.
Oh I'm sorry.......
.........
.......

_* I didn't know that wasting time on a form about politics on a video game website was a grown adult thing*_
Speaking of which. here's those arguments you haven't refuted


monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > And you're claiming humans did not evolve with this system?  Should we award you with a PhD?  Because nobody else on the planet claims this?  Its seems you've risen above every researcher on earth who is ever existed by typing a word I used in google you don't even understand.
> ...


Now the next thing they failed to counter argue.



monkeyman4412 said:


> r0achtheunsavory said:
> 
> 
> > Son, one day you will understand the stupid phrase, "If you're not a libtard when you're younger you've got no heart.* If you're not a right winger when you're older, you got no brain.*"
> ...


now be an adult, and tackle those arguments.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> _*snip*_


I think this gets you banned?

Inciting deadly violence. Glorifying mass shootings.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So... essentially you just outed yourself as a nationalist and racist.
> Congrats on playing yourself.
> ethnonationalism=nationalism defined within ethnicity
> aka race
> ...



Dude, is it racist to say that people are racist?  That's what you are saying.  They guy described anthropology and you want to burn his source material, with him, at the stake.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Dude, is it racist to say that people are racist?  That's what you are saying.  They guy described anthropology and you want to burn his source material, with him, at the stake.


In the natural world, ethnonationalism is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is,
Notice the only statement in there. Also I have an question.
Do we live naturally?
Your answer should be an easy no.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> In the natural world, ethnonationalism is the norm and possibly the only functional human grouping there is,
> Notice the only statement in there. Also I have an question.
> Do we live naturally?



The statement is a possibility.  It's not a condemnation of any race.  Please finish the thought before jumping off tangent.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Notimp, get a life.  Your arguments are so weak and pathetic and incapable to standing up to any form of logic or reasoning your only hope of 'defeating' your opponents is trying to get people banned for making Kyle Rittenhouse jokes.  This forum is a libtard wasteland so nobody really cares even if it did happen, but trying to get people banned from a forum doesn't make them cease to exist in real life, so your ideology based on lies never wins anyway.


No one makes Kyle Rittenhouse jokes, that tell other people to curl down on the floor, so Rittenhouse can use them as a surface to prop up his gun to shoot other people.

Those are not jokes.

Those are not meant to be jokes.

Thats you in an extremist frenzy, hating against people and society.

Pepe the frog excuse wont work here.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> I think this gets you banned?
> 
> Inciting deadly violence. Glorifying mass shootings.



Thanks guys, I just found out I can get a Gadsden flag with the Kenosha kid on it and no one is glorifying mass shootings, glorifying lawful acts of self defense.  Mass shooters don't spend their day cleaning up trash & graffiti and then attempt to turn themselves in after being forced to defend themselves.  A lot of people make Kyle Rittenhouse jokes, his merch is dope.  National hero, he deserves the medal of freedom.


----------



## Taleweaver (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> CNN is not a 'news' site.  Only 0 IQ leftists believe Operation Mockingbird, state run TV is "news".


Brilliant rebutal, dude. "oh, shit: my source just echoes my own retarded thoughts! Better try to discredit actual sources and hope someone falls for it!"


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

The fact the medic who tried to kill Rittenhouse was wearing a baphomet covid 19 mask (why does such a thing exist), makes me feel like I'm in a bad dream and there's no way this can be reality.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

CNN is a terrible source (so is FOX or almost any News Network).  They are all like WWF, but instead of "wrestling", they are of "current events".  It's very lucrative work.


----------



## Taleweaver (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> CNN is a propaganda network staffed nearly entirely by homosexual CIA interns and their beard Wolf from Israeli intelligence.


You ALSO failed to see that this is actual news.

Here, go nuts attempting to discredit all these sources as well:

Daily Beast
BBC
NBC
Nex York times
Daily beast
De standaard (Dutch)

I get it: you don't trust the media. But are you really going to pretend that some anonymous dude has MORE credentials*? 


* by the way: Tyler Durden's character is all about sowing chaos and mayhem. If that's what you're after, you can do that against people who don't put you on ignore


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> You ALSO failed to see that this is actual news.
> 
> Here, go nuts attempting to discredit all these sources as well:
> 
> ...



No you don't get it, I don't whinge on about attacking sources I take 30 seconds on google and see if something is true or not.  THATS A LEFTIE/RIGHTIE SOURCE SO ITS LIES is the argument of a dunce.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

LOL Even Fox News knows that the election fraud claims are a load of BS.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

I like how he claimed Zerohedge is a "blog" when it's basically the #1 financial news site in the world (Bloomberg terminal doesn't count).  That's the beautiful part about financial sites, most people there aren't idiots (or they'd be broke), so they can't load up every single article with lies and propaganda or the viewership would easily spot it and abandon the site.

The article showing extreme levels of voter fraud isn't even an opinion piece.  It's entirely data logs from the government and media itself!

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Stuff you can ignore



While you miss the point that news media has incentive to influence political outcomes, it doesn't seem that the Daily Beast article is misrepresenting the situation of Richard Pilger quitting his post.  Of course there is something more to the story, but if the Daily Beast is trying to sway opinions with it, it is nuanced.

/ignored now, because I don't have self control.




LumInvader said:


> LOL Even Fox News knows that the election fraud claims are a load of BS.




The ones I've seen aren't BS.  Also, you do realize who owns Fox news now, right?  It's called controlled opposition.  Fox news was purchased by Trump's opposition shortly after his first election.  This is elementary.  Can we talk about how screwed/played America was by being forced to "elect"/"accept" Biden for Prez.  LOL.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> I like how he claimed Zerohedge is a "blog" when it's basically the #1 financial news site in the world (Bloomberg terminal doesn't count).  That's the beautiful part about financial sites, most people there aren't idiots (or they'd be broke), so they can't load up every single article with lies and propaganda or the viewership would easily spot it and abandon the site.
> 
> The article showing extreme levels of voter fraud isn't even an opinion piece.  It's entirely data logs from the government and media itself!
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot


Zerohedge is a far-right propaganda website that peddles conspiracies and pseudoscience.












> *CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE*
> Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category _may_ publish unverifiable information that is _not always_ supported by evidence. These sources _may_ be untrustworthy for credible/verifiable information, therefore *fact checking and further investigation is recommended on a per article basis when obtaining information from these sources*.





> *Overall, we rate Zero Hedge an extreme right biased conspiracy website based on the promotion of false/misleading/debunked information that routinely denigrates the left.*



Citations:
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/zerohedge-media-bias
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

Zerohedge isn't even "some guy".  It's a fucking financial news aggregator site where thousands of different quants and financial analysts have written and been linked on.  Even shitbag George Soros has been featured on Zerohedge, much to everyone's dismay. 

Anyone that pretends what's written on Zerohedge doesn't matter means they're a complete peon in terms of financial knowledge and probably wealth.  All the richest people in the world read Zerohedge.  It's not a site for idiot leftists and their bogus SJW garbage.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

*This isn't hard people, if you don't believe what he says or you find a contrary opinion about it believe what you want.*

*Daniel Ivandjiiski*
Trader

Daniel Ivandjiiski is a Bulgarian-born, U.S.-based former investment banker and capital-markets trader, and currently financial blogger, who founded the website Zero Hedge in January 2009, and remains its publisher and main editor.


----------



## r0achtheunsavory (Nov 10, 2020)

That's the thing, he doesn't even write the articles anymore (that I know of).  It aggregates financial news from all over the world, typically featuring the things the garbage state run media like CNN and Fox censor.


----------



## Scarlet (Nov 10, 2020)

good for biden, it'll be nice to see a bit of change in the us


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

Scarlet said:


> good for biden, it'll be nice to see a bit of change in the us



That's either very dark or ignorant.  Things are not going to get prettier.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The ones I've seen *aren't BS*.


Fortunately, the courts decide whether the fraud evidence is valid or not and so far they're all singing the same song:

100% Grade A BS.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...the-united-states.576824/page-31#post-9259412


tabzer said:


> *Also, you do realize who owns Fox news now, right?  It's called controlled opposition.*  Fox news was purchased by Trump's opposition shortly after his first election.  This is elementary.  Can we talk about how screwed/played America was by being forced to "elect"/"accept" Biden for Prez.  LOL.


----------



## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Because there was fraud before the election,



He always planned to say there was fraud, whether there was any fraud.

Which is why he started talking about fraud months before the fraud could ever have taken place.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Fortunately, the courts decide whether the fraud evidence is valid or not and so far they're all singing the same song:
> 
> 100% Grade A BS.



Oh, so instead of "the truth will prevail", it's "what prevails, is the truth".  Okay.  I understand what side of honesty you fall on in that respect, but the court phase has just started, and I've only gaven my input as a witness.  Don't mind me!




LumInvader said:


> The Murdoch's love Trump and have lovingly purchased FOX News to support him in his ventures.



This is how to be a joke.  You can pretend I'm saying something controversial.  Pretend is the operative word here.  I really hope "fake it til you make it" doesn't become the new National Anthem btw.  I've had enough Kardashians myself.


----------



## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> cheering about the voter fraud and pretending it doesn't exist when *every statistician* in the country says it does at this point.



What what? *Every* statistician is saying there was fraud?

Can you back up that statement?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Fortunately, the courts decide whether the fraud evidence is valid or not and so far they're all singing the same song:
> 
> 100% Grade A BS.
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...the-united-states.576824/page-31#post-9259412



Fact check: No court has decided anything, because the suits and legal actions were only filed today.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> He always planned to say there was fraud, whether there was any fraud.
> 
> Which is why he started talking about fraud months before the fraud could ever have taken place.



When you object to process changes and aren't going to accept those changes as legitimate thats when you raise the issue, beforehand.

Americans stated in the millions we were not going to trust millions of mail in ballots showing up at 3 am, do not change the process.  Stop breaking elections.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Democracy can't function like this, check your partisanship because if this situation isn't remedied it will lead to violence.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> Zerohedge isn't even "some guy".  *It's a fucking financial news aggregator *site where thousands of different quants and financial analysts have written and been linked on.  Even shitbag George Soros has been featured on Zerohedge, much to everyone's dismay.
> 
> Anyone that pretends what's written on Zerohedge doesn't matter means they're a complete peon in terms of financial knowledge and probably wealth.  All the richest people in the world read Zerohedge.  It's not a site for idiot leftists and their bogus SJW garbage.





jimbo13 said:


> Blogs that post false information,  LumInvader is a troll that believes whatever big brother and the ministry of truth declare to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zerohedge is also a *conspiracy theory aggregator* with QAnon stories popping up in their "political" section:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/introduction-q

This is why we fact-check your links because they usually end up just like this one -- untrustworthy with a strong focus on conspiracy peddling.






--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Fact check: No court has decided anything, because the suits and legal actions were only filed today.


Your "fact-check" conveniently ignores all of Trump's court cases that have been dismissed, which was summarized in the link you clearly didn't read.


----------



## gamrfreakd (Nov 10, 2020)

He lost because he didn't deliver the Wall to the people.
Where is the wall President Trump, we only expected the wall from you.

Well looks like the Mexicans didn't pay for the wall and he didn't want to use his secret Chinese bank account.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> We probably do need a civil war if scumbags like this "LumInvader" are cheering about the voter fraud and pretending it doesn't exist when every statistician in the country says it does at this point.  It's not hidden.  It's right out in the open for anyone to see (it's not an opinion article, scumbag. It's data from the media and government itself. Stop lying you leftist scum):
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot
> 
> ...


That method as a way to try to find out if voter fraud is happening is fine btw. Havent looked at the claims of what irregularities are found.

Whats pretty much BS is that:


> This is based on their proprietary "Edison" data source which would ordinarily be impossible to access for people outside the press. The CSV is available *here* (_updated)._ And the script to generate it is *here*. *I suggest that everyone back up both of these files*, bc this is an extremely important data source, and we cant risk anyone taking it down.


https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ns-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot

Because the primary data source is NYT which is being scraped, so if that goes away - the 'back up and distribute means' effort is useless.

and

Because the shared .csv is a shared .csv, a few KB in size. In one file. For this you dont need a distributed effort to back it up. Name it Barbies Shopping spending, place it on dropbox. Done.

also - the effort to 'distribute it - for everybody to see' is pretty useless, because people literally have no idea, what looking at a .csv with numbers would mean.

also - a guy writing a scraper to scrape NYT published vote count data isnt an "anonymous" data scientist.
-

This is before looking into the eleged fraud in the data.

But on a positive not - this IS how you would find election fraud in this election (if it was there), the other 20 examples brought forward by Trumpists are not (functionally impossible/useless). So good on you, you are learning. 



> One of the first things noticed while exploring the dataset is that there seems to be an obvious pattern in the ratio of new #Biden ballots to new #Trump ballots.


Wow, you are just finding out that mail votes are scewed towards democratic votes. The thing I told you would happen five days (?) before the election, and then complained the day after the election, that so few media outlets were aware of 'could happen' in their reporting.

The reason I told you it might happen? Because It happens im my country for 10+ years, and I looked up a Californa institute of tech paper on 'biases like these happening' three days before the election.

Reasoning goes as follows. Trump tells his voters to vote in person. Democrats do not. The end. Or - demacrats more afraid of covid. The end.

Wow. So much fraud!

That part of the 'obvious voting pattern' is downplayed by the blog as 'some outliers' .

edit: Ah - Zero hedge then "surprisingly finds out" that the answer to 'is this fraud' to "normal distribution with some outliers" is no! Well, how wonderful that this was their introduction into a "voting fraud" article. What comes next must be astonishing, to begin an article with a total waste of time like that.



> This is the Wisconsin vote counting history log. Again, on the Y axis we have the ratio of D to R ballots in reporting batch, and on the X axis we have reporting time.* Around 4am there, there is a marked shift in the ratio of D to R mail-in ballots*. Based on other posts in this thread, *this should not happen*.


Possible explaination. The first mail votes that were counted were the first mail votes that came in (first come, first serve), which were the ones actually cast before there were public statements in mail voting made by both camps. Then Trump told his followers, that mail voting was the devil. This scoured the 'normal distribution' of mail votes, from that point forward. As mail votes were cast later (infrequent/new mail voters getting into it, because of covid), there was a statistical trend towards much more democratic votes coming in per mail.

For some reason, counting them started right around 4am - which THE PRESIDENT framed as 'votes found at 4 a.m. or something" without proof (the 'found' part, no they were just counted then). So now you are playing with that characterization, which could be a scam.

Also - the idea to scew mail in votes toward becoming mostly democratic, came from republicans. Their entire election PR was, stay away from mail in votes, they can be fraudulent. Thereby they created a self fulfilling prophecy.

One easy way to find out.

By what percentege were democrat votes scewed (higher than) than republican votes, arriving per mail - and does that make sense for the scenario? If you want - even resolved by 'time they were counted'.

That would be the intersting part. Answer D/R ratio per timeunit votes were counted was mostly 1:1 in all examples given, even at the 'most extreme' (as proposed by that blog).



> in every other state in the country, which is relatively stable D to R ratio that gradually drifts R as more ballots. *But then as counting continues, the D to R ratio in mail-in ballots inexplicably begin "increasing"*. Again, *this should not happen*, *and it is observed almost nowhere else in the country*,


In that case, the ratio increases from 'republican favoring' to 'roughly equal' - that 'this should not happen' is based on what? That the D/R ratio of voters casting their mail votes later cant change to 'roughly equal' (in that case). Why?



> because all of the ballots are randomly shuffled in the mail system and should be homogeneous during counting.


This might be a sampling issue. So as mail votes counted first are actually NOT shuffled in the mail system, and counted by fewer vote counters, their chances to be 'outliers' (votes in one county being counted only, which could vote early and was early to be counted in first come first serve) are high.

As more and more vote counters shift to counting mail votes, the amount of mail votes counted every hour increases, which increases the number of mail votes counted, which decreases the chance of the D/R ratio to break out in extreme ways.

The more mail votes are counted (in an hour) - the more 'stable' the D/R ratio of 1:1 becomes.

edit: This also is false:


> This slight drift from D to R mail-ins occurs again and again, and is likely due to outlying rural areas having more R votes. These outlying areas take longer to ship their ballots to the polling centers.


Most mail in votes are cast in population dense areas (cities), where delivering those mail in votes also takes longest, as the postal system becomes clogged with the additional demand.

Polling centers are not that far separated from rural voters, that that would result in additional days being added to the shipping time. For a significant amount of 'rural voters'.
-

edit: The most reasonable explaination for that 'statistical anomally' is "larger counties being started to be counted", btw.

So lets say mail votes are not 'randomized' in the postal system, but arrive in a 'first come, first serve' order. At first you have smaller counties allowing mail votes/having many voters already familiar with mail in voting. At some point later in time, a larger city 'enables their mail in vote process'.

As the amount of 'vote counters' you have stays roughly the same (in comparison to city/county size), the following happens.

Small city, small different city, small different city, small different city, New York, New York, New York, New York, New York, ...

Because small different cities might have extreme different biases in D/R ratio, but New York City might not have - you get less outliers.

Don't know if thats the reason, but its a possible one.


----------



## susi91 (Nov 10, 2020)

https://mobile.twitter.com/LizRNC/status/1325981026150178816


----------



## tabzer (Nov 10, 2020)

gamrfreakd said:


> He lost because he didn't deliver the Wall to the people.
> Where is the wall President Trump, we only expected the wall from you.
> 
> Well looks like the Mexicans didn't pay for the wall and he didn't want to use his secret Chinese bank account.


I, for one, wanted to see him "lock her up".  My disappointment is immeasurable.  Instead, it seems we got her-squared.


----------



## gamrfreakd (Nov 10, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I, for one, wanted to see him "lock her up".  My disappointment is immeasurable.  Instead, it seems we got her-squared.



Sadly the wolverine watchmen's were not so wolverine after all, or even watchmen's for that matter. 
Oh the woe is me, Mr. Trump must be weeping, I feel sad for him already. American's should have a re-election since it was a fraud.
On the Brightside the transitional procedure is still at hand, and we don't know when this lovely man will hand down the helm,
or the real question being if will he ever?


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

Also, if true, this is interesting:


Wokeness censorship destroyed polling.


----------



## gamrfreakd (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> Also, if true, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> Wokeness censorship destroyed polling.



Censorship is a bane to all.

Begone *thot*_censorship_*thot*.


----------



## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Americans stated in the millions we were not going to trust millions of mail in ballots showing up at 3 am, do not change the process.  Stop breaking elections.



Right, Trump lied that it would happen before it could possibly happen. There is no evidence it happened and yet you're angry because you think it happened.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

Also - on the zerohedge article above:

"Its a data source, that only media has access to - and "we" have not."

Votes get counted by the voting places, then uploaded to a central database, thats then shared with media, who does the reporting.

Votes do not get counted by the votingplaces, then uploaded to a central dartabase, thats then shared with candidates, who then do the reporting.

Also - if you are a blog, yes - you might not have access to that database. If you are FOX News though, you have. Or the New York Post. Or...

And yes - if you have none of the major media outlets in your camp anymore - its tough - but thats self inflicted. And I'm sure you could sue to get access to that data later on. (Someone find out.)

Actually - you could have a guy in every one of your polling places, uploading results as the night goes on, and create that database yourself.

This literally was, counting places taking up the phone and reporting results every hour - before everyone switched to shared databases.
--


And the explanation, that you get 'high fluctuating outliers' (in D/R voting ratio), because 'mail is randomized in the mail system sufficiently', in something equivalent to an 'aggregate number you announce every hour or so' is exactly the opposite of what should happen.

If mail vote was sufficiently randomized. In an aggregate number of votes per hour - you would see hardly any outliers. You would see middle of the road averages all the way.

Just in case someone needed to have that spelled out.


----------



## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> These leftists trying to hand wave over this fraud really are going to push us into a war.  These people are disgusting.



Trump supporters are trying to hand wave over legitimate votes.

How do we know that there aren't fraudulent votes for Trump?

It's farcical to suggest that democrat runs states must be fraudulent if they don't elect Trump, if they are democrat run states then that would suggest they have a majority of democrat voters.

Trump knew he could lose, so he laid the foundations by claiming mail in votes were fraudulent, then when he started losing he stepped up the rhetoric and claimed he won the election before the count was finished. He is just burning his integrity right now.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

Is it just me that finds it a little fishy that the star witness Trump has to the fake claims of voter fraud is a convicted pedophile??

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/09/dona...sex-offender-as-voter-fraud-witness-13565064/


----------



## GBAer (Nov 10, 2020)




----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 10, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Is it just me that finds it a little fishy that the star witness Trump has to the fake claims of voter fraud is a conflicted pedophile??
> 
> https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/09/dona...sex-offender-as-voter-fraud-witness-13565064/


Trump is a pedophilephile.


----------



## Megradome (Nov 10, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Trump is a pedophilephile.


nah g


----------



## Windaga (Nov 10, 2020)

r0achtheunsavory said:


> All you're doing is displaying how much of a sheltered life divorced from reality you live in.  This is insanely common in modern western women who are the most privileged creatures to have ever walked the earth.  This is where words like "Karen" came from - being so sheltered that you're pretending trivial etiquette is some type of national emergency.
> 
> If you had grown up as a male, the simple act of going to school at all as a child would have you in fear of being beaten up by some kid two years older than you or some other much more annoying problem.  Yea, girls can be mean to one another, but male kids punch each other in the face and knock out your teeth.
> 
> ...



I apologize; because the topic was so long, I didn't actually read every single post. I certainly didn't read much of what you had to say before hand. Had I done as much, I wouldn't have bothered responding to your quote the first time. 

I realize that you've been suspended, and won't be able to respond to this until later, if at all, but I do hope someone manages to pull you out of whatever confusing, hatred infused mire you're stuck in. 



SG854 said:


> Are you even paying attention to what she's saying or are you just arguing.





Joom said:


> No, you're right, we should just let batshit insane parents sit in on their child's class so they can spread propaganda.
> 
> Projecting much? I never had this problem going to school. Things are starting make sense, and I'm getting a good visualization of what kind of person you are in real life. I can just about guarantee you're a shrimp with an inferiority complex. No wonder you spread false rhetoric for a fascist; you want power in a world where you're absolutely powerless. How pathetic. "U R WOMAN AND INFERIOR" Lol...just, wow.



I appreciate both of your comments, though it seems he's been suspended at this point. 

To be up front, I wouldn't personally waste my time arguing with anyone that's going to refute everything you say. Some people argue just to argue; some argue to defend a platform and refuse to be moved; some argue to understand one another and move closer, together, towards a common goal - they're willing to shift their opinions given a fair argument backed with legitimate reasoning and sources. If you're arguing with anyone that's not the latter, your bound to run into trolls or the incorrigible. There's a lot of misinformation and pain coursing through this country, and the whole "team mentality" is only going to open more wounds than it'll close. 

For those wondering - yes, the man was ejected from the call. He was contacted by one of the administrators and was told of our dress code policies. He ended up pulling his child from the classroom. As of an hour ago, that makes 6 for my class - 17 for the school in total. I don't want to say they're all political....but I'd be lying if I said politics didn't play into it.


----------



## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Is it just me that finds it a little fishy that the star witness Trump has to the fake claims of voter fraud is a convicted pedophile??



It shows that are so desperate they aren't vetting their witnesses, but other than the optics then it's possible for anyone to be a witness no matter what crimes they have com,ited.


----------



## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> When you object to process changes and aren't going to accept those changes as legitimate thats when you raise the issue, beforehand.



To be clear, what changes are you speaking of? Because Trump seemed to be talking of fraud in the election before covid hit.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

*A team of 28 international election observers said it found no evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 election, contrary to what Trump keeps insisting*
https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11


> The OAS said Trump had "accused electoral workers of electoral fraud, and reiterated that his campaign would pursue its complaints through the courts."  "The OAS observers deployed in the battleground states of Michigan and Georgia did not witness any of the aforementioned irregularities," it said.





> That conclusion contradicts claims from President Donald Trump and his allies, who have pushed baseless allegations of widespread election fraud and have launched more than a dozen legal challenges while Trump has refused to concede.





> The OAS statement followed another report from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, which said that the US election was "well managed" and that Trump's baseless claims "harm public trust in democratic institutions."


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Windaga said:


> it seems he's been suspended at this point.


I knew it'd eventually happen. While it is a bit fruitless to try to change their minds, it is possible to get them so riled up that they eventually incriminate themselves. Slowly but surely, he let agitation get to him and spilled the Nazi beans. This is what I meant by putting their buffoonery on display in order to bring their dangerous rhetoric down. They eventually defeat themselves, because fascism by design is self-defeating. It can't survive and will always suffocate itself to death. I'm also not entirely convinced these people don't fall somewhere on the schizophrenia spectrum, too. The level of paranoia they exude just screams "schizo".


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 10, 2020)

if I could put roaches suspension into a song


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> if I could put roaches suspension into a song



The only one who actually got banned was Roach.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *A team of 28 international election observers said it found no evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 election, contrary to what Trump keeps insisting*
> https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11


Did Putin agree? Otherwise, fake news!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> I knew it'd eventually happen. While it is a bit fruitless to try to change their minds, it is possible to get them so riled up that they eventually incriminate themselves. Slowly but surely, he let agitation get to him and spilled the Nazi beans. This is what I meant by putting their buffoonery on display in order to bring their dangerous rhetoric down. They eventually defeat themselves, because fascism by design is self-defeating. It can't survive and will always suffocate itself to death. I'm also not entirely convinced these people don't fall somewhere on the schizophrenia spectrum, too. The level of paranoia they exude just screams "schizo".



You've already been proven to be on meds no one in their right mind would talk the way you do. And the fascism is coming from your party it always does. Most likely we'll be in a war because other than Trump every President gets us in one. Your party called him a fascist dictator and Hitler but yet he got us involved in zero wars doesn't really fit the narrative and yet it's inevitable we'll be in one under Biden. Don't worry you won't be going when the war hits they don't take mentally ill patients.

I know you think you're very important but you're really not usually that's a sign when someone acts more important than they are on a internet forum.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2020/president/



I saw that but I read they're right leaning so I already know what this forum will say.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

To anyone in favor of Biden's nationwide mask mandate, I'll ask you one thing.

How do you boil a frog?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> To anyone in favor of Biden's nationwide mask mandate, I'll ask you one thing.
> 
> How do you boil a frog?


WHOAA be careful, that sounds like the start of a French joke!!!!


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> WHOAA being carefuly, that sounds like the start of a French joke!!!!


Yep that could be seen as  rather racist @UltraSUPRA but then again not surprising as you blindly follow the racist homophobic transphobic orange baffon


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Yep that could be seen as  rather racist @UltraSUPRA


What?


AmandaRose said:


> but then again not surprising as you blindly follow the racist homophobic transphobic orange baffon


Trump isn't racist. Racism is the only bad thing you mentioned.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> To anyone in favor of Biden's nationwide mask mandate, I'll ask you one thing.
> 
> How do you boil a frog?


By putting a mask on it?  IDK.  Better question: why do conservatives think anybody cares what they have to say about this subject after they gleefully let 250,000+ Americans be killed by Trump's sheer incompetence? 

Y'all had your chance.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> By putting a mask on it?


No.

What you do is you slowly boil it. Too fast and the frog jumps out, but slowly turn up the heat and the frog won't notice.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.
> 
> What you do is you slowly boil it. Too fast and the frog jumps out, but slowly turn up the heat and the frog won't notice.


And boiling water is relevant to mask wearing...how, exactly?


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.
> 
> What you do is you slowly boil it. Too fast and the frog jumps out, but slowly turn up the heat and the frog won't notice.


So this is why extremism is ok, because we have to defend our personal freedoms of not wearing a mask at all costs, right?

250.000 americans dead, and hospitals maybe closing in the future - small price to pay.

Or do you do it, because you think this is party politics, because a moron first mishandled the crisis and then made it party politics not to wear one?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> And boiling water is relevant to mask wearing...how, exactly?


Become a dictatorship too quickly and society jumps out, but slowly take away rights and society won't notice.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> So this is why extremism is ok, because we have to defend our personal freedoms of not wearing a mask at all costs, right?


Yes.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

Well that was entertaining to say the least, went to bed, woke up to see him suspended... too bad he still has yet to respond to my points. But eh, I'll be nice and wait for the first few days when he comes back.
Regardless though apparently some shenanigans are going to happen. Taxes are going to be raised next year according to the 2018 tax code that was originally a tax cut.
Likely to use it as a mouth piece. If trump won, they would just state the bill ran out (when it didn't, it just raises for those who make less than 100,000 dollars) and drop taxes again. And if it was a different candidate they could push they raised your taxes as talking point.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Become a dictatorship and society jumps out, but slowly take away rights and society won't notice.


Trump was stripping away your rights at a record-setting pace and you still didn't notice.  I'm not worried about Biden declaring he's eligible for a third term or suggesting that he has absolute power granted to him by article 2.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Become a dictatorship too quickly and society jumps out, but slowly take away rights and society won't notice.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Well, at least thats pretty clear then.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 10, 2020)

I still don't get why people are against masks. They are doing no harm at all and they reduce the risk of infections. It's almost like a baby that doesn't want to wear a diaper.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Become a dictatorship too quickly and society jumps out, but slowly take away rights and society won't notice.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


soo .. your saying that you have intentionally boiled animals alive... wow... I think that might be just as bad as a French joke...


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> They are doing no harm at all


Tell that to my ears.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> So this is why extremism is ok, because we have to defend our personal freedoms of not wearing a mask at all costs, right?
> 
> 250.000 americans dead, and hospitals maybe closing in the future - small price to pay.
> 
> Or do you do it, because you think this is party politics, because a moron first mishandled the crisis and then made it party politics not to wear one?


What's funny notimp is that his frog metaphor also serves as a *self-fulfilling prophesy*.  Blame the liberals for issuing a mask mandate aimed at bringing the numbers down while at the same time doing everything you can to keep the numbers up by not wearing masks and refusing vaccinations.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> What's funny notimp is that his frog metaphor also serves as a *self-fulfilling prophesy*.  Blame the liberals for issuing a mask mandate aimed at bringing the numbers down while at the same time doing everything you can to keep the numbers up by not wearing masks and refusing vaccinations.


Well, there is that.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> What's funny notimp is that his frog metaphor also serves as a *self-fulfilling prophesy*.  Blame the liberals for issuing a mask mandate aimed at bringing the numbers down while at the same time doing everything you can to keep the numbers up by not wearing masks and refusing vaccinations.


The point of life is to thrive, not survive.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The point of life is to thrive, not survive.


I think we need to go back and focus on what really matter...Why are you boiling frog....I mean ...why?
where are the "*Don't F**k With Cats"* people..but for you know...Frogs..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

are you video taping it ?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I think we need to go back and focus on what really matter...Why are you boiling frog....I mean ...why?
> where are the "*Don't F**k With Cats"* people..but for you Frogs..


The boiling frog is famous enough for its own Wikipedia article. I didn't make it up or practice it.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Tell that to my ears.


You are doing a million times more damage to your ears by listening to loud music. You are probably talking about the rubber bands but i don't see how they can do any damage to ears.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The boiling frog is famous enough for its own Wikipedia article. I didn't make it up or practice it.


so is eating Dogs but I'm not torturing lassi or Toto


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What?
> 
> Trump isn't racist. Racism is the only bad thing you mentioned.


So you are saying being homophobic and transphobic is not bad. You have serious problems if you believe that.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The point of life is to *thrive*, not survive.


A society that's trying to flatten a pandemic curve won't "thrive" as long as one half of it is actively *sabotaging* the other.


----------



## Megradome (Nov 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> And boiling water is relevant to mask wearing...how, exactly?


i think it was a metaphore lol


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The boiling frog is famous enough for its own Wikipedia article. I didn't make it up or practice it.


I was you with everything
I agreed we needed to stop Biden by
1. Claiming votes from areas where  millions of minorities voted to be thrown out to make sure they don't matter,
2. disenfranchise all voter by claiming the election was rigged with no proof. and open a hotline to get random crazy people to say they "saw things"
3 To Use convicted pedophiles, who are not creditable, to makeup stuff.
 4 continuously  file false lawsuit knowing it would be instantly throw out so that it looks like we are finding things.
5, to stop masks,because people can not see our new dentures.. fully knowing that millions will end up dieing without them.
4 claim All major new outlets are fake and only get our news from twitter.
I agreed with you that all that should happen _*but....*_
*but SIR I can not in good conscience be part of political organization that believes in animal torture... *


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> So this is why extremism is ok, because we have to defend our personal freedoms of not wearing a mask at all costs, right?
> 
> 250.000 americans dead, and hospitals maybe closing in the future - small price to pay.
> 
> Or do you do it, because you think this is party politics, because a moron first mishandled the crisis and then made it party politics not to wear one?



Masks have been mandatory in the UK since June, why are we now in a second lockdown? Surely the almighty mask should've prevented this. Confused.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Masks have been mandatory in the UK since June, why are we now in a second lockdown? Surely the almighty mask should've prevented this. Confused.


It spread again because many people refused to wear masks and were having house parties and many uni students had fresher's week even though they were told it was banned. Even now every time I go to the shops there is a huge amount of people without masks even though its against the law here in Scotland and you can be fined between £500 to £10000.

The amount of people I see who also wear masks but don't put em over their nose is hilarious


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Masks have been mandatory in the UK since June, why are we now in a second lockdown? Surely the almighty mask should've prevented this. Confused.


Narrtive is, that yes, in combination with social distancing it should have - but people were living it up too much (gastronomy) at the same time.

Reality is probably, that masks are a mitigation strategy, but couldnt do enough to prevent multiple outbreak vectors, with which we are not so sure on where they originated. (Probably those damn foreigners that couldnt keep their infection rate low, with Europe keeping their internal borders down - or something..  ) In combination with winter. (More people staying indoors again.)

Old people (good PPE regime) arent contracting it as fast as during the first outbreak f.e. This seems to indicate, that behavior (f.e. mask wearing) can mitigate infection rate.

(You dont have the 'entire old folks homes wiped out' issue italy had anymore.)


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Masks have been mandatory in the UK since June, why are we now in a second lockdown? Surely the almighty mask should've prevented this. Confused.





AmandaRose said:


> It spread again because many people refused to wear masks and were having house parties and many uni students had fresher's week even though they were told it was banned. Even now every time I go to the shops there is a huge amount of people without masks even though its against the law here in Scotland and you can be fined between £500 to £10000.
> 
> The huge amount of people I see who also wear masks but don't put em over their nose is hilarious


...wait are you saying wearing my mask incorrectly would make it not work.. thats ridiculous.. I mean I should be fine, I either have my mask in my pocket or ...


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You've already been proven to be on meds


Where?


ForgotWhoIam said:


> no one in their right mind would talk the way you do


I don't think I should be receiving critique on my mental status from someone who sees the world in conspiracy theories.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> And the fascism is coming from your party it always does.


The Democrats aren't my party. But if you knew anything about socialist theory, you'd know that working with bourgeois democracy is easier than it is with a fascist. How you somehow think Trump and the Republican party aren't fascists after everything they've displayed just makes you a straight up fool.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> Most likely we'll be in a war because other than Trump every President gets us in one.


He didn't end any, either. He even committed more drone strikes than Obama, gave Palestine to the fascistic regime of Israel, and didn't prevent US soldiers from being assassinated in the Middle East. You can drop this patriotic facade already. I also hope that if we have any service people on this forum, they're deeply offended by you and your ignorance. Like the dude that got suspended, you're entirely detached from reality and refuse to accept it. When one is this divorced from reality, I think they're the ones that need the meds. Also, get some new insults already. You argue like an 11 year old.


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## Doran754 (Nov 10, 2020)

Wear a mask! No, not like that! You're wearing a mask wrong! Hey, you need to wear the mask even longer because you did it wrong before. Cases have increased despite mandatory mask wearing for 5 months? Well obviously mask's work and you're all too stupid too wear one properly. 

Gotcha.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Wear a mask! No, not like that! You're wearing a mask wrong! Hey, you need to wear the mask even longer because you did it wrong before. Cases have increased despite mandatory mask wearing for 5 months? Well obviously mask's work and you're all too stupid too wear one properly.
> 
> Gotcha.



New studies say you're supposed to wear it on your genitals. It has to do with the immune system somehow.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

Oh we are bringing religion into this. Pretty cool the Catholic and Protestant Churches here in Scotland accept me for who I am isn't it. So you trying to use religion against me won't work kid


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## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Ah yes, the one part of the Old Testament you God fearing loonies love to cherry pick. So, you don't eat shrimp, or wear mixed textiles either, right? Look man, you're not gonna get far throwing out Bible verses as if they prove anything. We're sort if in a day and age where the majority of society knows Christianity is just a fairy tale. God also sent bears to eat a bunch of kids for making fun of a bald guy. Lott's daughters got him drunk and raped him in a cave. The Bible is a terrible place to derive morality from. Take it from someone who grew up in the Baptist denomination. You're a lot happier when you denounce it.


yup when my wife is on her period ..she sleeps in the shed to make sure old testament law get followed


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## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

Megradome said:


> i think it was a metaphore lol


I know, it was just a bad choice of metaphors.  Requiring you to wear a mask during an active pandemic does not violate your rights.  Otherwise there would've been far more legal challenges to the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rule which has been around for decades.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yup when my wife is on her period ..she sleeps in the shed to make sure old testament law get followed


I hope you also keep a muzzle on her, because women aren't allowed to speak in public. I hope you also don't kill your slaves when you beat them. Just keep them near death, that way God forces them to forgive you.


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## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> I hope you also keep a muzzle on her, because women aren't allowed to speak in public. I hope you also don't kill your slaves when you beat them. Just keep them near death, that way God forces them to forgive you.



Why is your woman out in public she should be in the kitchen making you food.


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I know, it was just a bad choice of metaphors.  Requiring you to wear a mask during an active pandemic does not violate your rights.  Otherwise there would've been far more legal challenges to the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rule which has been around for decades.


That is mandated by businesses, not government.


Joom said:


> Ah yes, the one part of the Old Testament you God fearing loonies love to cherry pick. So, you don't eat shrimp, or wear mixed textiles either, right? Look man, you're not gonna get far throwing out Bible verses as if they prove anything. We're sort if in a day and age where the majority of society knows Christianity is just a fairy tale. God also sent bears to eat a bunch of kids for making fun of a bald guy. Lott's daughters got him drunk and raped him in a cave. The Bible is a terrible place to derive morality from. Take it from someone who grew up in the Baptist denomination. You're a lot happier when you denounce it.


So, uh, how did Judas try to betray Jesus?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> That is mandated by businesses, not government.


Mask wearing is also largely mandated by businesses, they're simply following the CDC's recommendations as there is no federal mask mandate currently.  It's typically not great for businesses when their customers die from exposure to a virus in their building.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 10, 2020)




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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Mask wearing is also largely mandated by businesses, they're simply following the CDC's recommendations as there is no federal mask mandate currently.  It's typically not great for businesses when their customers die from exposure to a virus in their building.


Tell that to Alabama.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So, uh, how did Judas try to betray Jesus?


Well see he didn't, because neither ever existed. If you didn't know, the story of Jesus is one that was adapted from a story that would be told to the Roman army in the barracks before they'd go into war. The Romans later went on to create the entire religion as a means to prevent revolt from the impoverished class. Why do you think there are promises of a mansion in the sky once you die so long as you're subservient to this invisible man in the sky? They'd tell this to the poor people who were shoveling human waste so they'd think their time here would be worth it. They told them all of their orders come from a higher power, and they're no different than the common man who's shoveling shit.

Lemme ask you something; do you believe Kim Jong Un doesn't ever have to use the bathroom because he's a demigod? Because he has all of North Korea convinced of this. If you don't believe this, then why do you believe any of this other crap? It's literally no different.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ...wait are you saying wearing my mask incorrectly would make it not work.. thats ridiculous.. I mean I should be fine, I either have my mask in my pocket or ...


Here is the incorrectly part that would make them work less.
- Touching them while wearing all the time, especially outside, in the middle
- Not washing hands (as in touching your nose, or eyes, after youve touched your mask and taking it off eventually)
- Wearing them until they become damp (usually longer than 30 minutes), which reduces filtering capability
...

But its useless to insist that that is the problem. People wont become robots adhering to all of those rules all of a sudden), just means lower than max efficiency percentage overall. Thats all.

You tell those 'rules' to people once, but you arent hammering them in all the time. (Would probably lead to lower compliance overall.)


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Tell that to Alabama.


I live in Alabama. What do you have to tell us? Because we have police here enforcing masks (finally). So, dunno what your point is. AGAIN.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Tell that to Alabama.


I said there was no federal mandate.  Statewide mandates as the second wave surges this winter?  Sure, you can expect more of that.  It's simply the sane thing to do, Trump's strategy of "grandma wants to die for the economy" was an abject failure.  So it's up to governors to fill the leadership gap until inauguration day.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

It's been Alabama state law to wear a mask since April. Nobody has enforced it though (until now), because it being a mostly conservative state, everyone's a moron. We also have one of the highest infection and death rates in the entire country because of this.


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> I live in Alabama. What do you have to tell us? Because we have police here enforcing masks (finally). So, dunno what your point is. AGAIN.


That's what I call overstepping bpundaries.


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## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> Here is the incorrectly part that would make them work less.
> - Touching them while wearing all the time, especially outside, in the middle
> - Not washing hands (as in touching your nose, or eyes, after youve touched your mask and taking it off eventually)
> - Wearing them until they become damp (usually longer than 30 minutes), which reduces filtering capability
> ...


ok now you are tell me there are rules for wearing mask and if I don't follow them that make wearing the mask less effective.. nooo that crazy..
I mean I have the same mask for over 1 year and make sure flip it over every day so that the other side is showing, and I make sure my nose is not covered because it tickles my nose ..only outside once get inside the store or my friends houses I take them off... Now your telling if I do that it does not work... lucky I'm the only one doin that right?


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> That's what I call overstepping bpundaries.


Enforcing state law is over stepping boundaries. Right. Just go tell all the police not to do the job they were hired to do. This coming from the homophobe.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Enforcing state law is over stepping boundaries. Right. Just go tell all the police not to do the job they were hired to do. This coming from the homophobe.


Representative democracy is the same thing as tyranny to republicans as long as they aren't the ones in charge.  Of course, they *are* the ones in charge in Alabama, which makes the whining even funnier.


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## smf (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Well obviously mask's work and you're all too stupid too wear one properly.
> 
> Gotcha.



Yes correctly manufactured and correctly worn masks do work to reduce transmission & some people are too stupid to wear one. What is your point?



djpannda said:


> ok now you are tell me there are rules for wearing mask and if I don't follow them that make wearing the mask less effective.. nooo that crazy..



I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. It's like a condom, it loses effectiveness if you use it wrong.



notimp said:


> But its useless to insist that that is the problem. People wont become robots adhering to all of those rules all of a sudden), just means lower than max efficiency percentage overall. Thats all.



Of course nobody is going to unlearn touching their face completely, but you can try to reduce it.



notimp said:


> You tell those 'rules' to people once, but you arent hammering them in all the time. (Would probably lead to lower compliance overall.)



I don't know if it would lead to lower compliance, there are some people who could use the reminder and might be glad of it while the Trump supporters will get triggered every time you mention a mask because their great leader told them they shouldn't wear one.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Enforcing state law is over stepping boundaries. Right. Just go tell all the police not to do the job they were hired to do. This coming from the homophobe.


The law itself is overstepping boundaries.

Gay marriage contributes nothing to society. If anything, it can ruin one (nude pride parades come to mind).


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## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Enforcing state law is over stepping boundaries. Right. Just go tell all the police not to do the job they were hired to do. This coming from the homophobe.


whoa  becareful with that word..me and SUPA like to be call "queer challeged"


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Tell that to my ears.



You can use masks that are not based on rubber bands on the back of your ears.
Using those is your choice.

I dislike wearing masks as well and I don't really believe they are useful, considering that the requirements for them to actually be useful aren't followed by even 1% of the general populace (not touching them, exchanging masks every 2 hours etc.), but I'm not going to be fined for not using them. No sir.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The law itself is overstepping boundaries.
> 
> Gay marriage contributes nothing to society. If anything, it can ruin one (nude pride parades come to mind).


yea most gays, I meet just walking around the neighborhood naked... all naked temping me will all there manly goodies.... SUPRA know what I talking bout


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The law itself is overstepping boundaries.


I've already had this argument with your retarded ass. I'm not doing it again. Like I said, if you refuse to wear a mask, you are denying the other people the right to life. You're the one overstepping, not other way around. This is like saying speed limit and seat belt laws are overstepping.


UltraSUPRA said:


> If anything, it can ruin one (nude pride parades come to mind).


Hoo boy, you are insecure about your teeny weeny, huh? Do naked people make you that uncomfortable? Do Mommy and Daddy punish and shame you when they catch you touching yourself? That's right, your entire existence should be nothing but shame, so everyone else's should be too,


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea most gays, I meet just walking around the neighborhood naked... all naked temping me will all there manly goodies.... SUPRA know what I talking bout


"Oh, you're an arachnophobe? That must mean you secretly want to have sex with spiders!"


AlexMCS said:


> You can use masks that are not based on rubber bands on the back of your ears.
> Using those is your choice.
> 
> I dislike wearing masks as well and I don't really believe they are useful, considering that the requirements for them to actually be useful aren't followed by even 1% of the general populace (not touching them, exchanging masks every 2 hours etc.), but I'm not going to be fined for not using them. No sir.


Compliance solves nothing.


----------



## Chary (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Gay marriage contributes nothing to society.


So normal marriage contributes nothing? Because at the end of the day, marriage is just a tax break and a nice formality so that a couple can feel bonded. Are you trying to say that gay people don't deserve the same tax breaks? So, certain people should be prohibited from benefitting the economy?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Oh, you're an arachnophobe That must mean you secretly want to have sex with spiders!"
> 
> Compliance solves nothing.


yes!! I mean just because me and SUPRA care about what people put up their butts privately ( and no way affect any one else) does not mean that me and SUPRA has Closeted homosexual feelings that scare us in to lashing out on what we secretly crave... no not at all


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

Chary said:


> So normal marriage contributes nothing? Because at the end of the day, marriage is just a tax break and a nice formality so that a couple can feel bonded. Are you trying to say that gay people don't deserve the same tax breaks? So, certain people should be prohibited from benefitting the economy?


Marriage is overrated anyway. You shouldn't have to quantify your love with a license and a different tax bracket. Also, filing single while married gets you better breaks than filing married so long as you have no dependents.


----------



## Chary (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Marriage is overrated anyway. You shouldn't have to quantify your love with a license and a different tax bracket.


But I want big government to give me a piece of paper that tells me I'm allowed to love my SO 

But heaven forbid ever LISTENING to big government!!! They're evil with their masks and letting the gays EXIST. 

I hope it's not necessary but /s


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Compliance solves nothing.



It saves me money, bro.
Also while they are not great for general usage, they are very useful in preventing symptomatic people from spreading the disease, like they were used in the first place, before CoViD-19.

Additionally, you should learn how to "not-comply" without being a fool.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Chary said:


> So normal marriage contributes nothing? Because at the end of the day, marriage is just a tax break and a nice formality so that a couple can feel bonded. Are you trying to say that gay people don't deserve the same tax breaks? So, certain people should be prohibited from benefitting the economy?


Straight marriage benefits society as it allows the continuation of it.


Joom said:


> Marriage is overrated anyway. You shouldn't have to quantify your love with a license and a different tax bracket. Also, filing single while married gets you better breaks than filing married.


Sex before marriage is immoral. I doubt that anyone is denying that.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Sex before marriage is immoral. I doubt that anyone is denying that.


Everyone but you.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

Chary said:


> But heaven forbid ever LISTENING to big government!!! They're evil with their masks and letting the gays EXIST.


Thank you that hits in everything we want.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Straight marriage benefits society as it allows the continuation of it.


Yeah, because the current overpopulation that's destroying the planet is so beneficial to society. Also, gay people can have children. They do it all the in vitro. So, your point is kinda invalid.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> Yeah, because the current overpopulation that's destroying the planet is so beneficial to society.


Okay. You feel like there are too many people on the planet. I feel like we should have the freedom not to wear a mask. Let's compromise.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Straight marriage benefits society as it allows the continuation of it.
> 
> Sex before marriage is immoral. I doubt that anyone is denying that.


whoa are you saying you still have your V card.. wow either your like 15 or still waiting for the perfect mmaaa... I mean person


----------



## Chary (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Straight marriage benefits society as it allows the continuation of it.


Did you know that people can...gasp...be gay, regardless if a governing body says it's okay or not?

If you outlawed straight marriage right this very second, people will _still _be straight. It wouldn't cause tons of people to rip their clothes off and start being gay in the streets. Because, I know, shockingly, it's not a choice people make. It "perpetuates" nothing.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Chary said:


> Did you know that people can...gasp...be gay, regardless if a governing body says it's okay or not?
> 
> If you outlawed straight marriage right this very second, people will _still _be straight. It wouldn't cause tons of people to rip their clothes off and start being gay in the streets. Because, I know, shockingly, it's not a choice people make. It "perpetuates" nothing.


Again. The problem is actions, not people.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Okay. You feel like there are too many people on the planet. I feel like we should have the freedom not to wear a mask. Let's compromise.


There is no compromise. You advocate for death, I advocate for the preservation of life. I'm just saying that we can stop with this "we gotta keep populating to save the human race", because it's just nonsense. Do you know why there are hunting seasons, especially for deer? It's because they're a parasite that will destroy ecosystems and starve to death due to overpopulation that strips their habitat is of all food and resources. This is what's happening to humans. Or at least, it will be in the very near future.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Again. The problem is actions, not people.


This changes everything, I mean how do you expect to have any credibility, in overturning an election or allowing millions to die because we don't want mask, and not aknowledging  homosexuality. with you being a Virgin...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

like I said your either like 15 year old... or saving yourself..


----------



## Chary (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Again. The problem is actions, not people.


Those *people's* _actions_ don't change. Again, gays gonna gay, straights gonna straight. Those actions won't change whether daddy government says we can or can't marry people. Also, totally disregarded the fact that married couples get tax cuts, therefore contributing to society, allowing them to start families and better support small businesses. And no, don't tell me that gay couples can't have families because adoption is totally a thing that exists. So which ACTIONS do you hate? The icky gays supporting local business with their marriage lovey-dovey tax money or what?


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Again. The problem is actions, not people.





djpannda said:


> This changes everything, I mean how do you expect to have any credibility


I love people manage to prove a point using themselves as an example. lol


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Chary said:


> Those *people's* _actions_ don't change. Again, gays gonna gay, straights gonna straight. Those actions won't change whether daddy government says we can or can't marry people. Also, totally disregarded the fact that married couples get tax cuts, therefore contributing to society, allowing them to start families and better support small businesses. And no, don't tell me that gay couples can't have families because adoption is totally a thing that exists. So which ACTIONS do you hate? The icky gays supporting local business with their marriage lovey-dovey tax money or what?


Imagine a world with only gay people. How long would it last?


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> This is what's happening to humans.



Boy... we are SO far away from an overpopulation issue it's not even funny.
It will be a concern in a few centuries, but now? It's a complete non-issue.
Especially when considering the adaptability of the species.



UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine a world with only gay people. How long would it last?



He is not advocating for this though.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine a world with only gay people. How long would it last?


Why are you arguing the impossible? Whataboutism is just dumb.


----------



## Chary (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine a world with only gay people. How long would it last?


...so? What does a hypothetical world have to do with the real world? I understand that your point is that they "couldn't" sustain the human race, but that isn't reality.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine a world with only gay people. How long would it last?


yea... how is the world going to last.. I mean its not like there millions of kids in that are up for adoption in the world.. and that people just keep making babies that they can't support and giving them away..no that not happening in our current world..


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

AlexMCS said:


> Boy... we are SO far away from an overpopulation issue it's not even funny.
> It will be a concern in a few centuries, but now? It's a complete non-issue.
> Especially when considering the adaptability of the species.


You're ignoring the climate change that is a product of the population. You're also ignoring our rapidly depleting fossil fuel sources. We don't have a few centuries, more like a few decades.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> You're ignoring the climate change that is a product of the population. You're also ignoring our rapidly depleting fossil fuel sources. We don't have a few centuries, more like a few decades.


Nuclear energy is the solution.


----------



## Joom (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Nuclear energy is the solution.


I agree. Wholeheartedly. Finally something we can both come together on. But that's just one piece to the solution.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Nuclear energy is the solution.


YESS after we destroy the world by harvesting every drop of natural resource, lets slowly pollute it and have a change of blowing it up too.


----------



## Chary (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Nuclear energy is the solution.


Or wind or solar or hydro, right?


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 10, 2020)

Joom said:


> You're ignoring the climate change that is a product of the population. You're also ignoring our rapidly depleting fossil fuel sources. We don't have a few centuries, more like a few decades.



You're overestimating that impact population has on climate change. That's more of a byproduct of our current "mainstay" culture than actual needs of the species.

A human community can be self sustained in a very small space, with a very low carbon footprint.

Fossil fuels are entirely unneeded at this point. We should have shifted to solar power for a long while now. It also helps on the whole climate change issue, since quite a bit more heat from the sun gets converted into other energy forms.

Nuclear energy is a mistake until you can safely treat the waste, aka, jettison it into the outer space, which is likely never.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

Chary said:


> Or wind or solar or hydro, right?


Not near powerful enough to sustain a modern lifestyle.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

AlexMCS said:


> You're overestimating that impact population has on climate change. That's more of a byproduct of our current "mainstay" culture than actual needs of the species.
> 
> A human community can be self sustained in a very small space, with a very low carbon footprint.
> 
> ...


but will already know how to take care of the waste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Not near powerful enough to sustain a modern lifestyle.


ya its not powerful enough... so there no reason invest in evolving and upgrade the tech... its not like we invented  better tech before... I mean my pc is still the size of a small factory. what size is your super computer


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ya its not powerful enough... so there no reason invest in evolving and upgrade the tech... its not like we invented  better tech before... I mean my pc is still the size of a small factory. what size is your super computer


I thought we were hitting the upper limit of how powerful wind, solar, and hydro energy can get.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> Narrtive is, that yes, in combination with social distancing it should have - but people were living it up too much (gastronomy) at the same time.
> 
> Reality is probably, that masks are a mitigation strategy, but couldnt do enough to prevent multiple outbreak vectors, with which we are not so sure on where they originated. (Probably those damn foreigners that couldnt keep their infection rate low, with Europe keeping their internal borders down - or something..  ) In combination with winter. (More people staying indoors again.)
> 
> ...


Actually gastronomy might play a larger role. In my country stricter controls are imposed for 30 days which include.



> Hotels are closed to leisure travellers/tourists; only business travellers are allowed to stay in hotels. Visitors who are already staying at a hotel when the measures take effect are allowed to remain there until their scheduled departure.
> Restaurants and bars can only offer takeout/delivery services, dining in is not permitted.
> Events such as concerts, plays, exhibitions etc. are cancelled.
> Museums, theatres, cinemas, gyms, pools, zoos, amusement parks, and other culture and leisure facilities must close (exception: libraries).
> ...


And that was enough to reverse the exponential trend, as of now.

So that seems to indicate that 'sloppy mask usage' in those areas (and probably a few more) could have been enough to accelerate the trend again. With winter incoming. Hard to say. More infection vectors of unknown origin definitely also was a big issue.

But lets just say - with this in place for a week, exponential trends reversed already. So other sectors (work, most trade, ...) could remain open, with masks and social distancing in place, without the infection rate becoming exponential (or near exponential) again.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I thought we were hitting the upper limit of how powerful wind, solar, and hydro energy can get.


 yes because the 15year old and or saving themselves person, is up to date in bleeding edge power industry

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Tesla is about to break new ground, they are trying to develop plans to provide electricity to whole islands just by solar. in 10 -15 years  with real investments we can make that in to states.and power the US for pennies on the dollar


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes because the 15year old and or saving themselves person, is up to date in bleeding edge power industry


I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I thought we were hitting the upper limit of how powerful wind, solar, and hydro energy can get.


Yes and no.

Wind is pretty much at the upper efficiency limit (per installed unit, so to increase wind, you'd have to increase units), hydro is at capacity more or less. (Only additional builds would be for energy storage, rather then new electric dams for production, because that either conflicts with tourism, or is fully built out already (hydro electric dams were a good form of energy production for decades).)

Solar is not at its upper limit yet. In the beginning of this year I've read, that china planned to increase efficiency by another 90% or so. (They thought it was feasible (hope I got that number right), but I dont know how far they've come by now.)

Which is an issue for commercial investors. You dont want to invest right before the next significant productivity bump, which is why the publics money is 'wanted' to gap investment currently. (Conventional energy companies arent investing big yet. Corp, currently is at the 'increase efficiency' stage.)


----------



## AlexMCS (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?



Not much. Do a quick research about it. Putting them on the entire roof of a house is enough for a whole house needs' and then some.
Not to mention places like deserts that can be adapted to become solar power plants.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?


Yes - issue is not so much space for solar farms, it is storage and transport. Thats the much bigger issue.

First you loose 80% of energy, when you convert it to hydrogen f.e.:
https://newatlas.com/energy/solar-to-hydrogen-cell-sth-pec-efficiency-breakthrough/

and then you loose another 20% during the conversion from hydrogen back to electric energy.

Hydrogen would be 'about equally as good for transport as petrol". Batteries (think li-ion or similar) have a far better efficiency (you only loose about 20% or so) - but are heavy, and loose charge over time. And degrade over time.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?


.. so I see you don't keep up with it the newest Generation of panels would only take 5-6 to power a house full and
 again image, if the US actually cultivate this tech in stead of fighting it tooth and nail , I mean real gets behind developing it, it would only take a couple of years.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> .. so I see you don't keep up with it the newest Generation of panels would only take 5-6 to power a house full and
> again image, if the US actually cultivate this tech in stead of fighting it tooth and nail , I mean real gets behind developing it, it would only take a couple of years.


For every house.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 10, 2020)

Anyway back on topic, Trump has gone from 30/1 yesterday to 10/1 to remain president with betfair today. The next few weeks are going to be fun.


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## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Anyway back on topic, Trump has gone from 30/1 yesterday to 10/1 to remain president with betfair today. The next few weeks are going to be fun.


your right  instead of making sense and talk bout  things that would benefit the world and make it better.. lets get back suppressing minorities and lawsuits with no substance..,


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> your right  instead of making sense and talk bout  things that would benefit the world and make it better.. lets get back suppressing minorities and lawsuits with no substance..,



Geez, do you ever not bring up race. Sorry for talking about the actual title of the topic. Trump gained votes with every race except white men so kindly shut the fuck up and take your race baiting elsewhere.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> .. so I see you don't keep up with it the newest Generation of panels would only take 5-6 to power a house full and
> again image, if the US actually cultivate this tech in stead of fighting it tooth and nail , I mean real gets behind developing it, it would only take a couple of years.


Issue is, that (edit: solar) development is cheaper in china. 

It really is.  And it really is the issue.

In Europe they are bringing back solar plants but only because (and I quote -) "we can raise efficiency by an additional bit, but not that much (currently)" (PR) and "transport is becoming a much higher cost factor" - because producing those things (fully automated), has become so cheap. Which is important, no - necessary - to keep cost per gigawatt hour low.

So as a result not that many jobs in that sector.

Investing into wind energy is the 'better play' for germany, as more high level engineering is required. And when the sun is not shining, maybe the wind is blowing, so a 'mix' is interesting to everyone.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> Issue is, that development is cheaper in china.
> 
> It really is.


.... I think you mean manufacturing is cheaper in china.. Tesla has made huge head way in development and if the government truly backs, the US and Tesla would hold the patents for the newer generations.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> .... I think you mean manufacturing is cheaper in china.. Tesla has made huge head way in development and if the government truly backs, the US and Tesla would hold the patents for the newer generations.


Tesla is different. Tesla is automation (mobility) and maybe storage (but not so much).

Tesla is "when in the new economy, you dont own a car, you order it, and it will drive to your doorstep and then automatically to your workplace", increasing efficiency and productivity. And reducing overall cars on the street. Teased for 'in ten (to twenty) years' (but I dont believe in that time table for level 5 automation..  )

edit: And battery production, and battery recycling infrastructure. And industrial transport infrastructure (which could go live - earlier).

Also - until you get there Tesla is a more attactive (but overvalued) car brand than german car manufacturers.

So the value is very likely in the infrastructure play.

Also until you get to a zero carbon/a carbon neutral economy (what many countries are pledging as a 2050 goal), Teslas emit more CO2 than - well not a Humvee, but a normal equivalent car. But that doesnt matter so much, because in a carbon neutral economy they dont. And you need to get there somehow. 

edit: This: https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mo...s-generate-higher-emissions-than-diesel-cars/

Factcheck says 'mostly false' but currently - eh... no. 

edit2: Better calculations:
https://electrek.co/2020/09/01/tesl...fetime-emissions-mercedes-benz-c-class-study/
(Well, at least - calculations..  )


----------



## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

Im not talking bout tesla the car but solar product...


and it sound like you are taking bout the issue of how can we get jobs out of it instead of how can we advance society ..
tech should never delay because of that.. Its not like there was a delay in creating the Automobile because the horse-drawn carriage industy will die.
 and most issue you are stating can be minimized and even eliminated within couple of generations. but fully relying on fossil fuel as a limit.. that we will reach...


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Not near powerful enough to sustain a modern lifestyle.


Really that's funny when 90% of electricity in Scotland is wind and hydro produced.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 10, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Really that's funny when 90% of electricity in Scotland is wind and hydro produced.



Considering theres like 5m people in Scotland, I should think so.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 10, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Considering theres like 5m people in Scotland, I should think so.


True but it should be possible to do in pretty much any other country in the world but government ls would rather have dirty electricity rather than renewable. There is no reason for countries to still have nuclear and coal power stations.


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## djpannda (Nov 10, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> True but it should be possible to do in pretty much any other country in the world but government ls would rather have dirty electricity rather than renewable. There is no reason for countries to still have nuclear and coal power stations.


,,, lol I think you should google how the coal industry "donates" to the government.. and how many Government officials have stock in coal.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 10, 2020)

Current solar cells actually only have about 22-27% efficiency at the moment, which is huge considering when I was about 12 they were at 5-9%. 

We've come far with it, but we have much more to go in that area. 

However we are also developing more adaptable solar panels as well, like ones that are clear and can be used as windows or screen for phones which have the same amount of efficiency at current standards.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 10, 2020)

There are also solar roofs, that don't even look like solar panels.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 10, 2020)

How many Trump supporters does it take to change a lightbulb?
One hundred and nine. One to break it in the first place, one to deny it needs changing, two to deny it exists, three to blame its breakage on the Democrats, one to demand said Democrats replace it, a hundred to mindlessly follow whatever the others last said and one to finally switch sides and actually change it.


----------



## notimp (Nov 10, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ,,, lol I think you should google how the coal industry "donates" to the government.. and how many Government officials have stock in coal.


Not the whole story either. 

First germany is getting out of coal. Thats decided already. activists still quarrel about how fast. (2020 or 2038). Issue there is f.e. that coal companies are a large supplier of work in entire regions of the country, so if you dont find perspectives for those people - its kind of hard to sell your economic plan.

Paying money for access to politicians is the norm - dont forget that. Germany isnt very high in world wide corruption ratings, last time I checked.. 

Lets not stick with this example (germany very likely can tank 'getting out of coal'), but go to 'subsidies for fossile fuels in general' - so tax exemptions or - additional payments for 'mobility' or fossile fuel based heating from the state.

The idea of a green new deal is, to axe all of those, and use them to subsidize green investments instead. This means a large reduction in potential mobility (even job related) for a large amount of citizens, this means a large nominal reduction in GDP for the country. That has to be offset somehow. Answer then is always "through green growth", but its very hard to imagine that that will work well in the 'lets say transition years'. (You have to add, that at the same time, corporations are meant to pay CO2 taxes that would be used to finance the increasing energy costs of poor people, and innovate themselves out of those 'sunken costs' (reduce CO2 production to have to pay less CO2 taxes in the future) at the same time).

The last study that I've read on that talked about being maybe a little better off (point something percent of GDP), if we assume economic growth (not degrowth) at a low level (1.3 percent annual) and 'some restructuring' in terms of societal outlooks and behaviors. On afair the 2050 time horizon.

Meaning, you'd not want to travel to foreign countries so much, you'd not want to own your own cars so much, you'd not want to own so much stuff so much - but consume more in virtual or service based economies, ...

You get the drift.. 

Also, germany has some of the highest energy prices in the world already. (So paying higher amounts for green energy (earlier) doesnt sound so bad...)


So you have this huge investment effort. That arguably is needed. That tells you upfront - you wont be that much better off 2050 (if at all), that you also have to change your life for, to have less of what you'd see as status symbols right now, to then end up in an economy where the service sector reigns supreme (not that much social mobility), and you consume a larger amount of virtual goods and services. While rich people get most of the gains (production in other countries, or highly automated), and have to suffer the fewest setbacks (they can afford to pay a bit more, to offset the higher costs of - everything that would get more expensive).

In exchange for that you get 'some sectors with promised economic growth'. Which at the same time will not mean 'more jobs' necessarily (automation and digitization), which certainly will not mean more well paying jobs (Probably increasing the divide between rich and poor).

And then we might tax automation to give people UBI, or something.

Ah - the future... 

In Europe we then currently tell each other, but the Boomers are dying off by then, so with far fewer people in our civilizations over all this could actually be quite chill.

And our kids then might get proper economic growth again. Oh, theil be so smart - they'll find a way.

And then you have to realize, that it was mostly Boomers that voted for this to be our future.  Well - if votes mattered that much.  It is a necessity, you know. 
-


edit: In the US AOC actually has a few more selling points for this. So f.e. you'll need infrastructure investment as a country in a few years (those are basically jobs that have to be filled with people), and you are currently being scalped by big pharma, so there is some fat you can 'cut out' to benefit folks equally, and you still dont have universal healthcare (which really should be just a restructuring at the cost of big pharma) which is what you always could give people in exchange for swallowing a bitter pill. And you have countries close to your borders you still could develop (growth engine).


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

Actual current election map for anyone interested back in reality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> I thought we were hitting the upper limit of how powerful wind, solar, and hydro energy can get.



My power is entirely off grid and I run a full machine shop, home theater and all the toys a family of four needs,  My grids a combination Wind, hydro & solar.  Hot water is a biotherm system from the heat generated out of our compost pile, I have a wind & water mills, solar and a diesel generator that gets used to recharge our batter systems every 2-3 years.  It's real easy to be off grid, you really don't need society,


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Doesn't even include the average Joe that would probably try to murder him if they saw him in the street.
> 
> As jimbo mentioned I'm still hearing Biden hasn't won the election yet.  Heard something about Pennsylvania going from Biden winning to undecided and North Carolina going Trump. All the tears that would pour in if Trump got re-elected would drown the country or at least Democratic areas. I'm not counting on it or predicting it, but we'll see.



Nothing is _*automatic *_nothing is *official *till December.  The electors have not cast a single ballot & nothing has been verified or certified.  

Meanwhile 80% of the public believes there was widespread fraud changing the outcome,  that issue will be resolved before anyone is decided to be president.


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## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

@ForgotWhoIam @jimbo13 The idea that there's been any sort of widespread voter fraud is unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense. The sooner you realize that Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States, the better.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> @ForgotWhoIam @jimbo13 The idea that there's been any sort of widespread voter fraud is unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense. The sooner you realize that Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States, the better.



I'm glad you were able to go to every state and verify this for yourself. You're a genius.

If there's no fraud you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

insane levels of Copium in here. you guys be careful with that. make sure carry some Narcan.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

at this point in PA, even without the 100k VBM ballots that have not been counted, trump would still need to get between 100-110% of the remaining votes to even tie, let alone overtake in a meaningful way.



same deal for AZ, trump needs to average >65% in every set of ballots from now on to catch up.


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## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> @ForgotWhoIam @jimbo13 The idea that there's been any sort of widespread voter fraud is unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense. The sooner you realize that Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States, the better.



Perception is reality, and the perception is this election is illegitimate and there was widespread fraud.  You cannot govern those who refuse your governance.


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## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If there's no fraud you have nothing to worry about.



The fraud will be thrown screaming and crying out of the White House in January.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> The fraud will be thrown screaming and crying out of the White House in January.



You're not even in this country thus you don't have a vote or an opinion that matters lol.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Perception is reality, and the perception is this election is illegitimate and there was widespread fraud.  You cannot govern those who refuse your governance.


Ah... right.
Your a republican.
According to a statement, 70% of republican's believe there was election fraud.
So your own bubble make you believe it...
I see
I don't perceive a pizza in my hand right now, but I am eating it



I didn't see the pressure valve explode on it's own. Therefore, someone else must of done it! Because that's my perception of things.
I perceived someone being rude and believed they were being an ass
when really they were just having a bad day.

In other words, perception is usually reality. Unless of course, you lost all touch and needing gallons of copium and or, have a very heavily skewd bias.  And even then, our eyes can't see all.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Perception is reality, and the perception is this election is illegitimate and there was widespread fraud.  You cannot govern those who refuse your governance.



overseas meddling in politics has ruined your country's and populace's perception.. which is why it is making it easier for them to seize control by force and move on to a police or fascist regime (cue: Murikan standard reply of 'not while I have my guns' - which is exactly what Russian, Middle Eastern and Chinese doctrine would love to see - America ripped open in a violent civil war.. kill yourselves, less work for others to do then).


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## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

More development from the fraud front. A postal worker just admitted to lying about witnessing fraud.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html

Wonder how many more are gonna come forward. I heard Biden talk about pursuing litigation if Trump continues to deny his loss and defrauding the American people.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Perception is reality, and the perception is this election is illegitimate and there was widespread fraud.  You cannot govern those who refuse your governance.



that is not the mainstream perception, no matter how much you want it to be. sorry, facts over feelings. so far, zero of trump's litigation has provided proper evidence, hell some suits haven't even been filed properly in the first place.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> I heard Biden talk about pursuing litigation if Trump continues to deny his loss.



Oh I'm sure that won't be the only litigation Trump will be facing..


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

snipped for now


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## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> In other words, perception is usually reality. Unless of course, you lost all touch and needing gallons of copium and or, have a very heavily skewd bias.



Fact check: I am not 80% of the public.

If you are too immature and ignorant not to make your ramblings about me, or your minimized strawmen in regards to the bigger issues I am not going to address you.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> Oh I'm sure that won't be the only litigation Trump will be facing..


Honestly, I'm hoping the IRS has a field day with him. I mean, he wouldn't have any money right now if he hadn't been funneling taxpayer money into his hotels, which is illegal within itself. Those ravenous assholes in the IRS need to be good for something, and it'd be such poetic justice if they reemed him, especially after he screwed the working class with tax breaks for the rich.


jimbo13 said:


> Fact check: I am not 80% of the public.
> 
> If you are too immature and ignorant not to make your ramblings about me, or your minimized strawmen in regards to the bigger issues I am not going to address you.


>Sample size is only 1,987 voters.

Yeah, this doesn't speak for the majority at all, especially since these are most likely Republican voters. I also think you don't know what a strawman is, because you just made one.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Well for sure Biden got one legit vote Neil Smith. Apparently they're old butt buddies.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> Oh I'm sure that won't be the only litigation Trump will be facing..



trump's fucked, all of his competent employees fucked off already.

if trumpers think GA is flipping back, they are in for a rude surprise. Trump carried Michigan in 2016 by 10,704 votes. the recount will change at most 1200 ballots.

in terms of being incompetent, i think claiming voter fraud in the 2 largest counties you took is probably up there.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Well for sure Biden got one legit vote Neil Smith. Apparently they're old butt buddies.



Keep up them Facebook memes. You sound like a soccer mom.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> Honestly, I'm hoping the IRS has a field day with him. I mean, he wouldn't have any money right now if he hadn't been funneling taxpayer money into his hotels, which is illegal within itself.



Prove it. It's always a conspiracy theory when it's about Democrats but fact when it comes to Trump funny how that works, and you are a Democrat you're not fooling anybody so don't play that game. Prove what you say we don't need unfounded conspiracy theories in here. When you post fake news it will expose you for who you are. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Joom said:


> Keep up them Facebook memes. You sound like a soccer mom.



Glad I have a fan I will!


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Prove it. It's always a conspiracy theory when it's about Democrats but fact when it comes to Trump funny how that works, and you are a Democrat you're not fooling anybody so don't play that game. Prove what you say we don't need unfounded conspiracy theories in here.


You are one dense motherfucker...and buttmad. My God I've never seen a bigger crybaby than you. Use Google some time. I'm sure even a toddler like you can figure that out. 

https://www.propublica.org/article/political-and-taxpayer-spending-at-trump-properties-16-1-million
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniel...nment-over-11-million-for-luxury-hotel-stays/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...27a7c6-3ec5-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> trump's fucked, all of his competent employees fucked off already.
> 
> if trumpers think GA is flipping back, they are in for a rude surprise. Trump carried Michigan in 2016 by 10,704 votes. the recount will change at most 1200 ballots.
> 
> in terms of being incompetent, i think claiming voter fraud in the 2 largest counties you took is probably up there.



Putting all that aside it seems you're admitting there's voter fraud which is what the issue is really about. You're worried about senile dementia Biden but America should be worried about the Democracy crumbling. There's nothing worse than not having a legitimate election in a free country. For some of us it's not just about Trump winning, it's about trust in the system but you morons who think you know for a fact there's no fraud are part of the problem. No one on either side should be happy with any fraud going on in America but your side has no morals and are the ones committing the fraud. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Joom said:


> You are one dense motherfucker...and buttmad. My God I've never seen a bigger crybaby than you. Use Google some time. I'm sure even a toddler like you can figure that out.
> 
> https://www.propublica.org/article/political-and-taxpayer-spending-at-trump-properties-16-1-million
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniel...nment-over-11-million-for-luxury-hotel-stays/
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...27a7c6-3ec5-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html



Fake news, Democrat spotted. That was so easy. At least the others admit it and are proud of it. You're a coward.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> and you are a Democrat you're not fooling anybody


Who am I trying to fool by saying I'm a socialist and not a Democrat? I'm further left than the Democrats. Lul, you're so damn pathetic.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Fake news, Democrat spotted


"HOW DARE YOU PROVE ME WRONG! AGAIN! BAAAWWWWW!"


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

A Democrat who claims he's a socialist in Alabama. They should make that a comedy.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

The Washington post is bullshit

[link to twitter.com (secure)]

Twitted by James O’Keef

USPS Whistleblower Richard Hopkins: “I DID NOT RECANT”

@washingtonpost ‘s @shawnboburg and @jacobbogage have been played by the same federal agents that are on the audio coercing the whistleblower to recant. AUDIO TAPES OF COERCION TO BE RELEASED IMMINENTLY.

[link to twitter.com (secure)]


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

@ForgotWhoIam @jimbo13 

here's a fun video


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> A Democrat who claims he's a socialist in Alabama. They should make that a comedy.


It's almost like where you live doesn't determine your political alignment unless you're a sheep. Hey, that pretty much describes you; sheep. Or maybe lemming. Lemming is more fitting for you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Whistleblower Richard Hopkins: “I DID NOT RECANT”


We going for double perjury now? He signed an affidavit. Guess he's gotta save face against the MAGAtards as he faces the possibility of being a skinny puppet on the end of another man's meat stick for the next ten years.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

If there's no fraud, why are Federal agents shaking down USPS workers to recant their stories?






--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Just another Fake News example of millions someone posted that the USPS worker lied and admitted it. FAKE NEWS HE DID NOT RECANT THIS IS HIM.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If there's no fraud, why are Federal agents shaking down USPS workers to recant their stories?


They didn't shake him down. Turns out that claiming election fraud is a pretty big fucking deal, and the federal government doesn't like being lied to. You just keep slurping up that Kool-aid, though. By the way, I'm curious. Did you ever get past the fifth grade, and do you suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome? You seem like someone whose proudest achievement is still hanging on their mother's refrigerator.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> More development from the fraud front. A postal worker just admitted to lying about witnessing fraud.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
> 
> Wonder how many more are gonna come forward. I heard Biden talk about pursuing litigation if Trump continues to deny his loss and defrauding the American people.




Um.  Due diligence please.  It's quite the contrary and a lot scarier than that.

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248?s=19


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> More development from the fraud front. A postal worker just admitted to lying about witnessing fraud.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
> 
> Wonder how many more are gonna come forward. I heard Biden talk about pursuing litigation if Trump continues to deny his loss and defrauding the American people.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Um.  Due diligence please.  It's quite the contrary and a lot scarier than that.
> 
> https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248?s=19



maaaybe you shouldn't quote stuff from project veritas if you want people to take you seriously.

"*Project Veritas is an American far-right activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010. The group uses undercover techniques to reveal supposed liberal bias and corruption and is known for producing deceptively edited videos about media organizations and left-leaning groups.*"


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Um.  Due diligence please.  It's quite the contrary and a lot scarier than that.
> 
> https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248?s=19



Democrats don't want any due diligence. Several of them on this thread have declared officially there's no voter fraud. Votes were being counted just days ago or are still are not sure being counted yet they can say for a FACT there's no fraud in the entire country. It couldn't be because they're biased nah. There really isn't one person anywhere who could say this for sure much less some random poster on gbatemp.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Um.  Due diligence please.  It's quite the contrary and a lot scarier than that.
> 
> https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248?s=19


Yeah uh, this is zero percent credible, especially considering PV's horrendous track record. But hey, if this dude wants to continue to supposedly commit perjury, let him do it. It's just going to be a heavier sentence. PV is going to ensure that for him, apparently, because conservatives don't care whose life they ruin just so long as they can continue to push a narrative.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> trump's fucked, all of his competent employees fucked off already.
> 
> if trumpers think GA is flipping back, they are in for a rude surprise. Trump carried Michigan in 2016 by 10,704 votes. the recount will change at most 1200 ballots.
> 
> in terms of being incompetent, i think claiming voter fraud in the 2 largest counties you took is probably up there.



You are looking at the small picture, *70 million people do not believe the election was legitimate. *  The rest is semantics, we are a society governed based on consent.  Regardless of what the facts are with the ballots, (I maintain the fraud is widespread & verifiable) Joe Biden, and by extension the Democratic party lacks enough of the populaces consent to govern.  There is either going to be a remedy through re-votes, scrutiny verifying the existing counts to regain faith in the electoral system.  If that does not take place it will lead to a degree of civil unrest which forces new elections and the resignation of a Biden administration before it even gets started. 


omgcat said:


> maaaybe you shouldn't quote stuff from project veritas if you want people to take you seriously.
> 
> "*Project Veritas is an American far-right activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010. The group uses undercover techniques to reveal supposed liberal bias and corruption and is known for producing deceptively edited videos about media organizations and left-leaning groups.*"



Um maybe you shouldn't cite mega-corporations and facebook fact checkers if you want people to take you seriously.   James O'Keefe has literally hundreds of retractictions and lawsuit victory for people lying about him. 

His wall of shame videos of retractions is awesome.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> maaaybe you shouldn't quote stuff from project veritas if you want people to take you seriously.
> 
> "*Project Veritas is an American far-right activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010. The group uses undercover techniques to reveal supposed liberal bias and corruption and is known for producing deceptively edited videos about media organizations and left-leaning groups.*"



If you don't want to take it seriously omgcat, that's your perogative.  Saying it's nothing and being dismissive about voter fraud because you really want Biden to become the legitimate president of the United States is your perogative too.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> There really isn't one person anywhere who could say this for sure much less some random poster on gbatemp.


But you're the fraud authority who *knows* without a shadow of a doubt. Why do all of you lack so much self-awareness? And I've said this before; why would the Democrats cheat the election but not the House or Senate, thus making Biden's time as president harder with the Republican majority in the senate? I honestly feel like huffing gasoline would be less harmful to my brain cells than talking to you people.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you don't want to take it seriously omgcat, that's your perogative.  Saying it's nothing and being dismissive about voter fraud because you really want Biden to become the legitimate president of the United States is your perogative too.



He's just a soldier of stupidity thinking his love for his party trumps (pun) being in a free country.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> Yeah uh, this is zero percent credible, especially considering PV's horrendous track record. But hey, if this dude wants to continue to supposedly commit perjury, let him do it. It's just going to be a heavier sentence. PV is going to ensure that for him, apparently, because conservatives don't care whose life they ruin just so long as they can continue to push a narrative.



Believing yourself as judge and jury is a nice way to have confidence that you are right, no matter what.  Lol at your reference to credibility.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> He's just a soldier of stupidity thinking his love for his party trumps (pun) being in a free country.


Because freedom = destroying freedom itself. Why are you such a bootlicker?


tabzer said:


> Believing yourself as judge and jury is a nice way to have confidence that you are right, no matter what.  Lol at your reference to credibility.


It's just deductive reasoning. Everyone has it, but it seems most refuse to use it.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 11, 2020)

Imagine if Obama did even a faction of what Trump has done.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

imagine people in PA not being pissed at trump for doing shit all in the rust belt for 4 years.

in other news:

we broke the WR for most covid infection in a day today at 135k, as well as 1345 deaths. ~%5 day over day compounding increase in the USA right now. probably gonna hit 250k/day by Christmas.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> Because freedom = destroying freedom itself. Why are you such a bootlicker?
> 
> It's just deductive reasoning. Everyone has it, but it seems most refuse to use it.



Being deductive isn't exactly the same as being reductive, especially with a clear motivation being present.  Which is almost everyone here.  But it's weird that people actually dismiss the problems of computer votes and the claims of unfair voting conditions when leaks and data manipulation actually happen.  It's not deductive at all, to consider how insecure the world is with data, and then turn around and say that elections are free from it.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Fox news has Biden below 270 now.

Before I got the obvious reply "deerrrrrrr, Fox News is for Trump" This is the channel that called Arizona for Biden while people were still standing in line voting. They've lost huge ratings since the election started Republicans are abanding them like the plaque.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> imagine people in PA not being pissed at trump for doing shit all in the rust belt for 4 years.


That's even more baffling. It's why I'm a socialist. I was a fabricator by day before the pandemic, and blue collar workers would benefit greatly if they had the ability to seize the means of production, but they're incapable of thinking critically for themselves because they're easily won over by politicians capitalizing on their fears, and play them with social and identity politics. "Yeeeah boy, Trump gon' stop them damn libcuck tranny boys from using muh bathroom! Who cares if he's gonna butt fuck me in every other way imaginable!"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Fox news has Biden below 270 now.
> 
> Before I got the obvious reply "deerrrrrrr, Fox News is for Trump" This is the channel that called Arizona for Biden while people were still standing in line voting.






"Derrrrr"


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Fox news has Biden below 270 now.
> 
> Before I got the obvious reply "deerrrrrrr, Fox News is for Trump" This is the channel that called Arizona for Biden while people were still standing in line voting.



Fox hired a former DNC pollster employee the week before the election to make election calls, Alex Jones stated at his hiring they would call Arizona early & inappropriately.   The man must be psychic.... 


Real Journalist Tim Poole covering the veritas video of the FBI shaking down postal workers.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Real Journalist Tim Poole


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh man that was a good one. I guess grifter podcasters are journalists now.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


You think Tim Poole's a joke but you call yourself a socialist.  Would you be willing to shoulder the concerns of your brother, or are you hoping for a "purge"?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Let me guess_.
kool aid slurping intensifying _




KingVamp said:


> So insane. Anything that even remotely goes against their bias, they just go somewhere else that's even more extreme.


no...  but your close. They treat that response like how they treat the covid pandemic. It doesn't exist in their heads.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 11, 2020)

So insane. Anything that even remotely goes against their bias, they just go somewhere else that's even more extreme.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You think Tim Poole's a joke but you call yourself a socialist.  Would you be willing to shoulder the concerns of your brother, or are you hoping for a "purge"?


What does that have to do with me thinking Tim is a grifter? And yes, I do firmly believe in standing in solidarity, but my enemy doesn't wish to do that, and would rather see me and my family dead. So how can I stand in solidarity with a person who won't do the same?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I'm glad you were able to go to every state and verify this for yourself. You're a genius.
> 
> If there's no fraud you have nothing to worry about.


Nobody has been able provide evidence of any widespread voter fraud. Put up or shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> liberals aren't socialists. Get it through your thick head. Communists aren't to be confused with liberals.
> If you continue, I'm telling you now. you may end up causing a raid to teach the real meaning of communism and socialism.



Please, if you aren't going to finish our original dialogue then feel free to say nothing.  I'm not confusing communists with liberals.  You are being rude.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You think Tim Poole's a joke but you call yourself a socialist.  Would you be willing to shoulder the concerns of your brother, or are you hoping for a "purge"?



I know that fake Tim Poole doesn't have a media monopoly or a hairdresser, not a real journalist like someone with a suit and a made up superhero name like Wolf Blitzer.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I know that fake Tim Poole doesn't have a media monopoly or a hairdresser, not a real journalist like someone with a suit and a made up superhero name like Wolf Blitzer.



I mean, having a degree in journalism instead of being an ex-Disney employee with no other credible certification helps...


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Nobody has been able provide evidence of any widespread voter fraud. Put up or shut up.



Fact check : The only ones claiming there are not widespread evidence of voter fraud are far left media monopolies.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> What does that have to do with me thinking Tim is a grifter? And yes, I do firmly believe in standing in solidarity, but my enemy doesn't wish to do that, and would rather see me and my family dead. So how can I stand in solidarity with a person who won't do the same?



Calling him a grifter is insincere.  I'm pretty sure Tim Poole is not your enemy.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check : The only ones claiming there are not widespread evidence of voter fraud are far left media monopolies.


And the federal government. But you don't agree with them, so they're wrong.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

*MILLIONS OF VOTES Either Switched from President Trump to Biden or Were Lost*

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...s-either-switched-president-trump-biden-lost/


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Calling him a grifter is insincere.  I'm pretty sure Tim Poole is not your enemy.


Mmm, no, the general consensus amongst lefties is that he's a fear monger that consistently makes baseless claims just to arouse fear and vitriol toward the left within his viewer base. And anyone who pushes a narrative for fascists is my enemy. At least by proxy, because they're in support of the actual enemy.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> *MILLIONS OF VOTES Either Switched from President Trump to Biden or Were Lost*
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...s-either-switched-president-trump-biden-lost/





Joom said:


> I've said this before; why would the Democrats cheat the election but not the House or Senate, thus making Biden's time as president harder with the Republican majority in the senate?


I'm still waiting for an answer here.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> *MILLIONS OF VOTES Either Switched from President Trump to Biden or Were Lost*
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...s-either-switched-president-trump-biden-lost/


Hilarious that's from a website well known for lying.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fox hired a former DNC pollster employee the week before the election to make election calls, Alex Jones stated at his hiring they would call Arizona early & inappropriately.   The man must be psychic....
> 
> 
> Real Journalist Tim Poole covering the veritas video of the FBI shaking down postal workers.




citing Alex Jones as a good source of information... gonna be a yikes from me.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> Mmm, no, the general consensus amongst lefties is that he's a fear monger that consistently makes baseless claims just to arouse fear and vitriol within his viewer base. And anyone who pushes a narrative for fascists is my enemy. At least by proxy, because they're in support of the actual enemy.



You are conflicted.  On one hand you don't like that someone would arouse fear and vitriol, yet your principle is established on the seeking and destroying the enemy.  Are you in a war?  Because if they are already your enemy, then they have good reason to arouse anger to fight against you.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Hilarious that's from a website well known for lying.
> 
> View attachment 233490







starting to see a pattern in these people's media consumption.

Alex Jones lost custody of his kids when he couldn't prove he was "playing a character" like he claimed in court.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are conflicted.  On one hand you don't like that someone would arouse fear and vitriol, yet your principle is established on the seeking and destroying the enemy.  Are you in a war?  Because if they are already your enemy, then they have good reason to arouse anger to fight against you.


When did I say anything about destroying the enemy? Now who's being insincere? And fighting against the spread of dangerous rhetoric isn't contradictory to my stance one bit. You think you're gonna get me with some gotcha, but so far it's just been strawmen.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> citing Alex Jones as a good source of information... gonna be a yikes from me.


Omgcat is on gbatemp for credible sources only--like snopes, or the onion.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Omgcat is on gbatemp for credible sources only--like snopes, or the onion.



honestly the onion is probably more reliable than Alex Jones or James O'keefe.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> honestly the onion is probably more reliable than Alex Jones or James O'keefe.


The onion is more authentic than snopes too, but the point was that you don't like evidence because you can pretend the source is a substitute, and speak it away as if your opinion was more credible than Fox news or NYTimes.



Joom said:


> When did I say anything about destroying the enemy? Now who's being insincere? And fighting against the spread of dangerous rhetoric isn't contradictory to my stance one bit. You think you're gonna get me with some gotcha, but so far it's just been strawmen.



If that's true then that's a misunderstanding.  I was under the impression that the stakes were life/death based on what you said earlier about how your enemy wants you dead.  Maybe you were being hypothetical, but it's hard to tell when you claim the opposition are fascists.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> honestly the onion is probably more reliable than Alex Jones or James O'keefe.



Let me know when Alex Jones or James O'keefe use blue screen to pretend they are in Iraq.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Oh Joom thinks his "enemy wants him dead"? Good god so not only is he a Democrat who claims he's a socialist in Alabama, he's paranoid delusional too. I was just kidding about the meds earlier, but apparently it's not a joke at all. Joom's biggest crisis is his own brain.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Let me know when Alex Jones or James O'keefe use blue screen to pretend they are in Iraq.




They're like a satire comedy show without being funny.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Let me know when Alex Jones or James O'keefe use blue screen to pretend they are in Iraq.




had to reach all the way back to vietnam with that video. that video is probably older than you.

also CNN fetish much? that network sure takes up space in your head rent free.


----------



## Magnus87 (Nov 11, 2020)




----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If that's true then that's a misunderstanding. I was under the impression that the stakes were life/death based on what you said earlier about how your enemy wants you dead. Maybe you were being hypothetical, but it's hard to tell when you claim the opposition are fascists.


I think you mean "hyperbolic", and no, I'm really not being that. The Republican party has become a far-right death cult that dog whistles toward white nationalists and hate groups while strangling this country for their own benefit. They call anyone who opposes them terrorists, and have no problem murdering them (Charlottesville comes to mind). Though, don't think I'm supporting the Democrats here. Only the politically inept think Joe Biden and the majority of Democrats are left leaning. They're moderates, and Biden himself leans more to the right. They're just easier to bend on social issues, but they won't do anything to change the status quo or to at least reform capitalism. But yeah, the conservatives in this country would shoot me provided I came across a big enough lunatic.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> had to reach all the way back to vietnam with that video. that video is probably older than you.
> 
> also CNN fetish much? that network sure takes up space in your head rent free.



Let me know when Alex Jones & James O'keefe make a highschool kid a billionaire like the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, CBS, The Guardian, The Hill and NBC did for entirely fabricating libel and using lies about a kid for a week of news cycle programming.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/24/washington-post-settles-250m-suit-with-covington-teen-nick-sandmann/


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Joom thinks his "enemy wants him dead"? Good god so not only is he a Democrat who claims he's a socialist in Alabama


No, you're right, I'm an anarchist on the moon. 


ForgotWhoIam said:


> he's paranoid delusional to


You've done nothing but post conspiracies, when everything I've talked about has demonstrable evidence to back it up. You project so much it's not even funny anymore.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Let me know when Alex Jones & James O'keefe make a highschool kid a billionaire



>billionaire

>$250M settlement which will have lawyer fee's and taxes deducted to the tune of 80+%.

great hyperbole.

with people this bad at numbers, it's no wonder these people still think trump has a chance to win the election.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> apparently it's not a joke at all


So wait, are you being serious, or have you just been "joking"? Good lord you are one inconsistent fuck.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> >billionaire
> 
> >$250M settlement which will have lawyer fee's and taxes deducted to the tune of 80+%.
> 
> great hyperbole.



Fact check: > 250 million was the sum of the WAPO lawsuit alone.

Let me know when Alex Jones & James O'keefe take payments for nearly a century to cover up lead poisoning like the NYTimes did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_The_New_York_Times


----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 11, 2020)

Imagine the beautiful country we could be living in if more people possessed logical reasoning skills and weren't so easily manipulatable. Affordable healthcare, booming economy, improved quality of life, cleaner air, quicker technological advancements, more effective education, happier people.

Why must it be a pipe dream?


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Imagine the beautiful country we could be living in if more people possessed logical reasoning skills and weren't so easily manipulatable. Affordable healthcare, booming economy, improved quality of life, cleaner air, quicker technological advancements, more effective education, happier people.
> 
> Why must it be a pipe dream?



sucks that the counties that voted for Biden make up 70+% of America's economy. we have people who really don't do anything good for America trying to steer the ship. it's madness.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Yeah I'm not listening to "this is not a credible source" bs. There is obviously no possiblity of any source I could post that Democrats would find credible. It's not going to be on CNN or New York Times or Washington Post because they are the ones who are fake news and would never let the truth get in the way of news coverage. 

The revolution will not be televised.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

there won't be a civil war because meal team 6 would have to actually exercise. and once again, having guns does not mean you can execute a successful civil war. good luck shooting down drones of any type with your long guns. any university with a half decent chem lab can make white phos, and then you just pair it with bulk purchased hobby drones and burn the south to the ground.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> there won't be a civil war because meal team 6 would have to actually exercise. and once again, having guns does not mean you can execute a successful civil war. good luck shooting down drones of any type with your long guns.



It won't be a traditional war, it's going to look a lot more like Brexit, The Irish partitioning and the collapse of the USSR.  Texas doesn't even have to go to war to exit the Union.

Remember, one week the USSR was business as usual a week later it didn't exist.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Let me know when Alex Jones & James O'keefe take payments for nearly a century to cover up lead poisoning like the NYTimes did.


So do you get a monthly supply of SUPER MALE VITALITY™, too? Alex Jones admitted to being a charlatan in court. He's just a bullshit supplement pusher that uses the conspiracy and political activist angle to sell his idiot followers overly priced snake oil.


IncredulousP said:


> Imagine the beautiful country we could be living in if more people possessed logical reasoning skills and weren't so easily manipulatable. Affordable healthcare, booming economy, improved quality of life, cleaner air, quicker technological advancements, more effective education, happier people.
> 
> Why must it be a pipe dream?


Too many rich people benefit from keeping these things off the table. I mean, fuck affordable health care, give it to us for free. Preventable disease care and receiving treatment for chronic ailments shouldn't be a matter of how much is in your wallet. Your right to life shouldn't have a dollar sign tied to it. We also need worker unions to come back in this country (one of Biden's day one policies, but I don't see it happening). The death of the union is what has kept the working class in a horrible state for nearly 30 years now. Why is it that factory workers can't afford a nice house, two cars, and the ability to comfortably raise a family anymore? Why is minimum wage not even enough to afford rent anymore? Why are employees subject to and forced to work in unsafe conditions, as well as having basic human necessities such as going to the bathroom threatened with termination? It's because capitalism has trampled every common worker because they use loopholes to fire anyone who dares join a union. People who break their backs to keep this country running are stepped all over by the ruling class, and it's because we keep letting them just because they divide us on social issues. We will forever remain stagnant if people can't begin to drop this petty shit, and start worrying about actually surviving.


jimbo13 said:


> snip


^Case in point. This level of ignorant bigotry gets us nowhere. This person is so petty and childish that they refuse to respect other people. They buy into idiotic propaganda, and are too afraid and insecure to make any change. They are a detriment to this country if it ever plans to advance and keep up with the flow of societal evolution.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> It won't be a traditional war, it's going to look a lot more like Brexit, The Irish partitioning and the collapse of the USSR.  Texas doesn't even have to go to war to exit the Union.
> 
> Remember, one week the USSR was business as usual a week later it didn't exist.



which states do you think you're gonna keep? all the high GDP/ high econ states barring 1 (texas) won't leave this union. The red states are already 3rd world shitholes to begin with. you're losing your mind if you think you would prosper economically if you left.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Texas doesn't even have to go to war to exit the Union.


Fine with me. Texas can get the fuck out. I think Mexico would appreciate having it back anyway. Its main export is factory farmed beef, so nothing of value will be lost.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Democracy can't function like this, check your partisanship because if this situation isn't remedied it will lead to violence.





jimbo13 said:


> Fact check: I am not *80% of the public*.
> 
> If you are too immature and ignorant not to make your ramblings about me, or your minimized strawmen in regards to the bigger issues I am not going to address you.


*The claim:* "80% of the public" believe that mail-in voting led to wide-spread voter fraud.

*Fact check:* False.

This poll that jimbo13 has repeatedly referenced is missing it's description at the top, which originally stated:

*"The 34 percent of voters who said the election was not free and fair"*

That "80%" figure (actually 78%) was taken from that smaller 34% sample of voters, which are mostly Republicans.  This applies to both the gray and red highlighted results.  However, because the results highlighted in gray represent "All Registered Voters," jimbo13 thought that by posting the incomplete screenshot he could mislead others into believing that "80%" figure represented *all* American voters.  But it doesn't.  Only 34% of all voters said the election was not free and fair and 78% of that group believe that "mail-in voting led to wide-spread voter fraud."

Got that? 

Citation:
https://morningconsult.com/form/tracking-voter-trust-in-elections/


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

https://everylegalvote.com/country


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *The claim:* "80% of the public" believe that mail-in voting led to wide-spread voter fraud.
> 
> *Fact check:* False.
> 
> ...



don't fact check him, they don't like facing reality.

also, does anyone know reliable websites and organizations that use the phrase "autists".

also the About page has no information about who owns the site, their political affiliation, or identifiable information.

once again, gonna be a yikes from me.

all i see from trumpers at this point is:


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *The claim:* "80% of the public" believe that mail-in voting led to wide-spread voter fraud.
> 
> *Fact check:* False.
> 
> ...


The sample size is also less than 2,000. Hell, I live in a small town of about 2,000, and I'm sure they all agree with this graph as well. Sure is representative of "everyone".


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> I think you mean "hyperbolic", and no, I'm really not being that.



I get you are trying to be pedantic, but why?  Hyperbolic wouldn't work unless I thought your enemy only wants you "kind of dead".  If it's not hypothetical than my use of the word destruction maybe be considered lenient.

And to the rest of your comment, holy crap!  You said you hated Tim Poole for some reason but now I forgot why.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> which states do you think you're gonna keep? all the high GDP/ high econ states barring 1 (texas) won't leave this union. The red states are already 3rd world shitholes to begin with. you're losing your mind if you think you would prosper economically if you left.



_*I *_don't think I am keeping any states because this isn't about me and I don't currently preside over a state.

I think states that have a constitutional out like Montana and Texas may go independent real swiftly, as well as many of the sovereign tribal nations all over the midwest may exert more independence/identity.  They already have their own governments.  You may see Jefferson state movement reassert itself in the Northwest and Alaska may get interesting.   Idaho would love to get out will make some moves depending on what Montana does.

But it's not going to be blue america/red america.  You will see numerous states asserting 10th amendment privileges, resistance to federal mandates and possibly partitioning directly proportional to the level of nonsense the left tries to impose.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Nov 11, 2020)

I may have mentioned earlier the 109 Trumpers it takes to change a lightbulb.
However, I neglected to mention a couple things.
1) The last guy can't bring himself to actually change the lightbulb- he hires a guy to do it using tax dollars.
2) There's actually another guy after him for 110- his job is to scam the repairman out of his money.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I may have mentioned earlier the 109 Trumpers it takes to change a lightbulb.
> However, I neglected to mention a couple things.
> 1) The last guy can't bring himself to actually change the lightbulb- he hires a guy to do it using tax dollars.
> 2) There's actually another guy after him for 110- his job is to scam the repairman out of his money.



Kid even other Democrats don't find your jokes funny because they're just not. Go play Minecraft.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *The claim: * 78% of all registered voters means 34% of republicans
> *
> Fact check: *False
> 
> ...


Don't shoot the messenger.  

I'm just reporting *what the poll actually stated*, while posting the important section that *you intentionally left out*.  OK, so you were caught lying.  No big deal -- we all know the truth now.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Buckle up buckaroos


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I get you are trying to be pedantic, but why?  Hyperbolic wouldn't work unless I thought your enemy only wants you "kind of dead".  If it's not hypothetical than my use of the word destruction maybe be considered lenient.


No, I thought you said I was acting hypothetical, but hyperbolic would be more fitting providing you were perceiving my post as exaggeration.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> Kid even other Democrats don't find your jokes funny because they're just not. Go play Minecraft.


This coming from the snowflake that regurgitates boomer memes. Fuck out of here, window licker.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Buckle up buckaroos


And when Biden still wins, will you finally shut up with this bullshit so we can actually discuss something productive? It's such a boring topic by now.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> No, I thought you said I was acting hypothetical, but hyperbolic would be more fitting providing you were perceiving my post as exaggeration.
> 
> This coming from the snowflake that regurgitates boomer memes. Fuck out of here, window licker.
> 
> ...



Strawman, have I ever once said "Trump is going to win just wait!" I care about voter fraud. You obviously don't because well you think Republicans are trying to kill you but for us normal minded people voter fraud matters.

It went from "there's no voter fraud at all" to now "Biden is still going to win despite the voter fraud" Pathetic.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Strawman, have I ever once said "Trump is going to win just wait!" I care about voter fraud. You obviously don't because well you think Republicans are trying to kill you but for us normal minded people voter fraud matters.


You're another dimwit who doesn't know what a strawman is. You should really stop trying to seem smarter than you actually are. And if the Republicans weren't a fascistic death cult, they'd stop politicizing a global pandemic and actually accept the science behind it. 



ForgotWhoIam said:


> I care about voter fraud


Except you really don't. If you did, you'd stop championing conspiracy theories about it.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> "Biden is still going to win despite the voter fraud"


I never said this. See, this is what a strawman is.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Buckle up buckaroos



yup pure misinfo the judge literally ruled the opposite way.

are you guys even trying right now?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

I'm so sure Republicans are plotting to kill some kid name Joom while he's in his mom's basement playing Fortnight. Yes they have nothing better to do because the world revolves around Joom.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

*I'd like to apologize to everyone,* I just found Mitch "Get that cock out of your mouth"  McConnel reasonable and the voice of reason.  That said I take that as a sign I am obviously mentally compromised and ask you all for your forgiveness


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> No, I thought you said I was acting hypothetical, but hyperbolic would be more fitting providing you were perceiving my post as exaggeration.



While it is my opinion that you are hyperbolic and unstable (deductive reasoning, of course), my comment was about the concern of your enemy wanting to kill you being a hypothetical or not.  You said I was being insincere on the basis that I said "destruction" instead of whatever word you think might have been more suitable.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

I admit that tweet turned out to be wrong everyone makes mistakes. I'm a big man I can admit to mistakes unlike your entire party. It doesn't mean there's no fraud in the entire country like I'm sure you Dems are trying to strawman. Most of you are on ignore so I don't know/care what you're saying.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Buckle up buckaroos


She may be trolling you.  Or maybe you're trolling us with her?  For the record, "BuffQueen" provided no source and it's nearly 11:00PM in Michigan, so the media -- be it local or national -- should've reported on this by now.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I'm so sure Republicans are plotting to kill some kid name Joom while he's in his mom's basement playing Fortnight. Yes they have nothing better to do because the world revolves around Joom.


Lol, why is it always "in your mom's basement"? Get better insults, you ass pained, fragile bitch boy. And again, if they weren't a fascistic death cult, they would stop politicizing a global pandemic and accept the science behind it. And when I said "me and my family", it's an understood collective of the American people, as well as myself, who have lost everything because of Trump's ineptitude. It is a collective of those who he labels terrorists just because they oppose him. He doesn't give a shit about you, or me, or any other citizen of this country. You all just bought the lie, and are now cardholding members of the bootlicker club.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> I admit that tweet turned out to be wrong everyone makes mistakes. I'm a big man I can admit to mistakes unlike your entire party. It doesn't mean there's no fraud in the entire country like I'm sure you Dems are trying to strawman. Most of you are on ignore so I don't know/care what you're saying.


HAHAHAHAHA! You're a big man right after making a "mom's basement" joke. You're a manchild.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

President Trump on Tuesday night fired a warning shot on the fraudulent computer voting systems that coincidentally keep flipping Trump votes to Joe Biden.

“Wait until you see what’s coming!” Trump said.

“I don’t care what state you’re in, this computer voting system is wide open to fraud and intervention.” @LouDobbs True, and wait until you see what’s coming!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 11, 2020


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check : The only ones claiming there are not widespread evidence of voter fraud are far left media monopolies.


I can claim there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud because nobody has come forward with evidence of widespread voter fraud. Also, I am claiming there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and I am not a "far left media monopoly."


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> President Trump on Tuesday night fired a warning shot on the fraudulent computer voting systems that coincidentally keep flipping Trump votes to Joe Biden.
> 
> “Wait until you see what’s coming!” Trump said.
> 
> ...


Ancient diebold machines being prone to manipulation? Nooo, ya don't say. But is that what actually happened? That's gonna be incredibly hard to prove since the manipulation would require physical access at the point of a ballot being turned in, so best of luck proving that happened.



Lacius said:


> I can claim there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud because nobody has come forward with evidence of widespread voter fraud. Also, I am claiming there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and I am not a "far left media monopoly."


These people unironically think the media is what makes people's decisions because it's what makes theirs.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> These people unironically think the media is what makes people's decisions because it's what makes theirs.


That actually makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it like that before.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

I already know the ugly replies coming, but what if he was telling the truth would you even care? I understand with Joom I mean if I thought a party was trying to kill me I would probably be in favor of voter fraud but for normal people.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> yup pure misinfo the judge literally ruled the opposite way.
> 
> are you guys even trying right now?


What I find interesting is that Trump's lawsuits keep getting thrown out left and right because they lack credible evidence, yet twitter is literally a GOLD MINE of election fraud evidence.  Someone needs to inform Rudy so he can butt-dial Trump all the info.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


>


Do you honestly think any of these are evidence of widespread voter fraud? Did you bother fact-checking anything?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I already know the ugly replies coming, but what if he was telling the truth would you even care? I understand with Joom I mean if I thought a party was trying to kill me I would probably be in favor of voter fraud but for normal people.


fun fact
all the courts have already dismissed all those cases for a lack of evidence.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Do you honestly think any of these are evidence of widespread voter fraud? Did you bother fact-checking anything?


Yes, Lacius.  I'm fairly certain he *alternative fact-checks* everything he posts.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I can claim there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud because nobody has come forward with evidence of widespread voter fraud. Also, I am claiming there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and I am not a "far left media monopoly."


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

Annaxxx said:


> We


Wendy Williams?
We are the world?
Welcome back Kotter?


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>


Jesus Christ, this is just getting sad. I also love how Trupettes just ignore Trump going into a teenage girls' locker room to stare at half-naked beauty pageant contestants, and he was best friends with a human trafficker who had a pedophile island. 

I'm ready to move to Oregon. I wanna get in on some of that psilocybin therapy they just legalized, because I can actually feel my brain beginning to shut down from all of this dipshittery. I have to deal with it in real life, too, and it's starting to become maddening.


----------



## DKB (Nov 11, 2020)

This thread has only confirmed that it is incredibly easy to figure out that a 40+ year old is replying to something.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

I can't believe people like Biden.  That's so weird.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I can't believe people like Biden.  That's so weird.



It shouldn't be there are a lot of racists in this country and no one has been more effective than keeping black men away from white women than Joe Biden, I mean this is a guy that was besties with Klan members in the 90s and had the balls to support segregation in the 80s.  He may say he wants to end systemic racism but with his actual record he will do it with trains & ovens.

Joe Biden's home Delaware is barely a state, it's a compound for white supremacists and a tax shelter for credit card companies.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Imagine the beautiful country we could be living in if more people possessed logical reasoning skills and weren't so easily manipulatable. Affordable healthcare, booming economy, improved quality of life, cleaner air, quicker technological advancements, more effective education, happier people.



Sounds like Australia, Canada or any number of countries other than the USA.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> I get you are trying to be pedantic, but why?



Might have something to do with how every comment you've ever made on gbatemp comes across the same tabzer.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> Sounds like Australia, Canada or any number of countries other than the USA.



Yeah it's a wonder what you can do with 1/10th of the population, a larger landmass and reasonable immigration policies.   How about you guys take 30-50 million Mexicans, according to liberals they are the smartest hardest working people on the planet.


Australia                   24.99 million
Canada                     37.59 million
U.S.                          328.2 million


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> What I find interesting is that Trump's lawsuits keep getting thrown out left and right because they lack credible evidence, yet twitter is literally a GOLD MINE of election fraud evidence.  Someone needs to inform Rudy so he can butt-dial Trump all the info.



yeah it's almost as if Trump has never heard of Twitter as being a factual news source, he should harness the power of twitter.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Yeah it's a wonder what you can do with 1/10th of the population, a larger landmass and reasonable immigration policies.   How about you guys take 30-50 million Mexicans, according to liberals they are the smartest hardest working people on the planet.



Certainly harder working than a lot of Americans.

Also you seem to forget the USA had their massive immigration policies after World War 2 (technically most of you are ALL immigrants.. just like us here in Oz) and most of your population is only a couple of generations American born.  At worst blame yourselves for too many immigrants (according to rumour they were after your jobs).


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

Creator of Gravity Falls has been trolling the voter fraud tip line, lul.
Hahaha can hear how exhausted they are already pic.twitter.com/zoa4HiLaEj— Alex Hirsch (@_AlexHirsch) November 7, 2020


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> Sounds like Australia, Canada or any number of countries other than the USA.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Great.  I wasn't talking to you.  If you have a dispute with something I've said, then make your dispute on the respected thread.  Contextually, there was actual confusion between two people happening here.  What are you trying to contribute?


----------



## gamrfreakd (Nov 11, 2020)

*GSA Holding Back Biden-Transition Funds as Trump Disputes Election Results*

President Trump has not yet been convinced the the 2020 election slipped away from him, and his administration is largely working under the assumption that No. 45 will still be sitting atop the Executive Branch come January 21st.  This, despite the fact that the Associated Press on Saturday called the election in favor of Joe Biden, and Biden himself has already given a victory speech.

Stupidity at it's best. Pure entertainment.

Hopefully, For the sake of the country The Republicans step up and use enough brain cells to convince trump otherwise.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

gamrfreakd said:


> *GSA Holding Back Biden-Transition Funds as Trump Disputes Election Results*
> 
> President Trump has not yet been convinced the the 2020 election slipped away from him, and his administration is largely working under the assumption that No. 45 will still be sitting atop the Executive Branch come January 21st.  This, despite the fact that the Associated Press on Saturday called the election in favor of Joe Biden, and Biden himself has already given a victory speech.
> 
> ...



No, we don't like you.  We rather burn the whole fucking thing down.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> he was best friends with a human trafficker who had a pedophile island.


When that famous picture was taken, Trump had no idea of that island. When he found out, he banned Epstein from his private jet.


----------



## gamrfreakd (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No, we don't like you.  We rather burn the whole fucking thing down.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaEL0JJaHkk&feature=emb_logo

*Clap clap clap* He deserves one hand.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 11, 2020)




----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 11, 2020)

Dr.SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD. Inventor of Email
Dr.SHIVA LIVE: MIT PhD Analysis of Michigan Votes Reveals Unfortunate Truth of U.S. Voting Systems.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I already know the ugly replies coming, but what if he was telling the truth would you even care?


If he was lying, would you even care?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I can't believe people like Biden.  That's so weird.


It's mostly the older generations that like Biden.  Leftists and younger Dems see him more as a stepping stone to a president in the same vein as Bernie Sanders or AOC.  Regardless, Trump was the second worst candidate in history (worst if not not for Hillary's campaign sabotaging itself), and was easily among the top five worst US presidents in history.  So even with his neolib tendencies and his cringy folksiness, Biden is undoubtedly a step up in terms of stability if nothing else.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It's mostly the older generations that like Biden.  Leftists and younger Dems see him more as a stepping stone to a president in the same vein as Bernie Sanders or AOC.  Regardless, Trump was the second worst candidate in history (worst if not not for Hillary's campaign sabotaging itself), and was easily among the top five worst US presidents in history.  So even with his neolib tendencies and his cringy folksiness, Biden is undoubtedly a step up in terms of stability if nothing else.


Even himself, calls himself transitional.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 11, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Even himself, calls himself transitional.


Yeah...unfortunately I think he means into a Kamala Harris administration which would be equally neoliberal to his.  Perhaps that's just the pessimist in me talking though, and they'll both surprise me over the next four years.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 11, 2020)

Don't you hate when you accidentally like stuff? lol


----------



## SG854 (Nov 11, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Straight marriage benefits society as it allows the continuation of it.


Why do you give a shit? If society ends and humans become extinct I don't care. I'm just enjoying the moment now and enjoying my time on earth. It's going to end anyways when our sun becomes a super nova destroying all life on earth.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine a world with only gay people. How long would it last?


Your comments are ridiculous. gays are a very small percentage of the population. There is no way we will all turn gay if gay people have rights. You are paranoid af.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It's mostly the older generations that like Biden.  Leftists and younger Dems see him more as a stepping stone to a president in the same vein as Bernie Sanders or AOC.  Regardless, Trump was the second worst candidate in history (worst if not not for Hillary's campaign sabotaging itself), and was easily among the top five worst US presidents in history.  So even with his neolib tendencies and his cringy folksiness, Biden is undoubtedly a step up in terms of stability if nothing else.



I suppose what you say about Biden could be true in regards to stability if we can factor him out of the actual decision making processes; which is likely imo.  Of course, your ranking of Trump is relative to what your political stances are, but it's easier to see him having a base more as opposed to Biden from my point of view.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> it's easier to see him having a base more as opposed to Biden from my point of view


I mean yeah, there will always be racists to appeal to by using the Southern Strategy.  OTOH, all Biden had to do was recapture most of the Obama vote to get to 270, so there was certainly a base there too.  He got that plus so much more: all the people who hate Trump in general, and all the people who were left behind by Trump's policies (or lack thereof).  And that's how he ended up with a record-setting number of votes in his favor.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I mean yeah, there will always be racists to appeal to by using the Southern Strategy.  OTOH, all Biden had to do was recapture most of the Obama vote to get to 270, so there was certainly a base there too.  He got that plus so much more: all the people who hate Trump in general, and all the people who were left behind by Trump's policies (or lack thereof).  And that's how he ended up with a record-setting number of votes in his favor.


I still think it's amazing that you seem to think there was no vote fraud.  A lot of people were left disappointed with Obama's lackluster message of "hope" that didn't seem to amount to anything tangible.  It's hard for me to believe that Biden would get more votes than Obama.  But I can see that you want to believe that the election process is not corrupt, so this would be the rationalization.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Ah so your a self absorbed hedonist, I can relate but I still think humanity should exist.   Pictured below is when I started giving a shit, I was all about it when it was about privacy and tolerance.  Then it went to mandatory celebration, thought policing and ruining peoples lives if they happen to be repulsed.  If closets are the only way to keep dick off me while I walk down the street so be it.


It's funny how anything can be twisted into a negative. Self adsorbed hedonist I feel doesn't really describe my thoughts. That's a bit too extreme.

Of course we are not going to completely be uncaring of the human race. Of course we would want people to get good health care, good education and just have general good survivability of humans. There's always nuance to a persons thoughts even if they don't explicitly say it. We're all human, complex creatures that's not just one thing. But worrying about the survival of the human race, don't take that too far to the point that you are unhappy everyday worrying about every little thing. At some point you just gotta say I'm taking this to far, i'm just making myself completely unhappy, I don't want to worry constantly about if humans will die, let me just not think about that and play a video game, let me just enjoy myself.

If humans become extinct then so be it. I don't think its a self absorbed attitude. It's more of a it's fate attitude. Not everything is within our control. And if you try to control things that not within your control, you are just going to make you're self unhappy, You have to let it go. You can try your best to prevent it, but you also have to gauge reality and be realistic and know your limitations. And just let it go, i'm not going to care about a future scenario that I have no control of. Enjoy yourself & your time here. For your own mental well being. Caring about your own mental well being is not selfish or self absorbed. Calling it self absorbed, that attitude is going to make a lot of people unhappy.


But that picture. I have never have experienced that picture. Have you? I doubt you have living in the middle of nowhere. You have to be realistic at how often that happens. Not a single time in my whole life have I ever seen a scenario like that picture. And a lot of people can say the same. It's just not something that happens often.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Already responded to it.  You have yet to answer.  Misspelling education is pretty ironic and humorous, especially considering the context of you talking down to people.  I'll overlook calling gbatemp.net a tech forum, as your educatation is obviously on the ropes.



GBAtemp covers software development, hardware hacking and technology - guess that makes it not a technology forum huh?  But I get it, technology scares some people so don't want to mention it.

There is no PRIVATE conversation in a public forum.  It's like talking shit in a bar, you'll get called out for it and for being a pedantic, condescending turd.  That is my reply.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The only thing Australia has exported that anyone cared about is Steve Irwin, and he was such a pussy he was killed by sushi.


we are LOVING our FREE healthcare and zero covid cases here. how about you?


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> we are LOVING our FREE healthcare and zero covid cases here. how about you?



it's ok Blade.. it's amazing how even when arguing you find common ground with the other person - in Jimbo13's case he said our ancestors bent over for the monarchy.. well we have that in common, so did his - on both sides of his ancestry.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> GBAtemp covers software development, hardware hacking and technology - guess that makes it not a technology forum huh? But I get it, technology scares some people so don't want to mention it.



I didn't say that technology wasn't involved.  Describing GBATemp as a technology forum is still a fault in your vocabulary, or maybe you were trying to make this place sound more sophisticated than it is in an attempt to pump your own ego.  Whatever.



gizmomelb said:


> There is no PRIVATE conversation in a public forum. It's like talkig shit in a bar, you'll get called out for it and for being a pedantic, condescending turd. That is my reply.



Obviously, having my comments being viewable to the general public is not a qualm that I have.  I already told you, that if you have an issue with something I have said, then you are free to call it out.  So far you haven't.  If you want to say that I am condescending, then try not being condescending yourself.  Otherwise I'm just giving you proper respect.



Bladexdsl said:


> we are LOVING our FREE healthcare and zero covid cases here. how about you?



It's kind of silly to call healthcare free and not acknowledge the taxes/burdens that you pay on it.  Canada and Australia are not beacons of a free market, which is the primary driver of innovation--until it stagnates due to monopolization and government intervention.  As it is, can't say which is better, but it still the reverence is unpalatable.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I didn't say that technology wasn't involved.  Describing GBATemp as a technology forum is still a fault in your vocabulary, or maybe you were trying to make this place sound more sophisticated than it is in an attempt to pump your own ego.  Whatever.



So what is this site then?  It covers gaming, general affairs and mostly technology, so what does your pedantic heart want to label it?




tabzer said:


> Obviously, having my comments being viewable to the general public is not a qualm that I have.  I already told you, that if you have an issue with something I have said, then you are free to call it out.  So far you haven't.  If you want to say that I am condescending, then try not being condescending yourself.  Otherwise I'm just giving you proper respect.



I have called it out, your general pendantry and talking down to people with essentially every single post you make.  I (and I'm sure many others) have no respect for you at all.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> It's kind of silly to call healthcare free and not acknowledge the taxes/burdens that you pay on it.  Canada and Australia are not beacons of a free market, which is the primary driver of innovation--until it stagnates due to monopolization and government intervention.  As it is, can't say which is better, but it still the reverence is unpalatable.



It is FREE as in there is $0 cost out of the patient's pocket if you see a bulk billing doctor / specialist.  Sure you can pay a premium and see your nominated doctor and specials, and there are health care insurance funds which can help reduce that if you specifically want to see the same doctor all your life - however for those who are unemployed, have low wages or have retired - there is no extra charge to seek needed medical help.

Yes our taxes go towards covering medical care for our ENTIRE NATION, just as those taxes also contribute to covering schools, police, fire fighters, paramedics, the armed forces, road and rail infrastructure (just like taxes pay for those services and infrastructure in almost every country).

old article, as our taxes have recently been revised - but last year I earned somewhere in the 60K AUD region (about 43K USD), received a refund for $3500 and just recently had surgery and a 4 day stay in hospital with nothing out of pocket.  Please note that I earn only 2/3 of the AVERAGED salary in Australia.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/australians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-they-get-more-too.html#:~:text="Australia has the most tightly,20 percent of income earners."&text=The U.S. rate was 17 percent.

What a lot of people don't seem to recognise is that paying taxes covers all of those things in a socialist democracy.  Otherwise it'd be tolls on every road and/or how far you drive.  House burning down?  Pay for the fire fighters to attend etc.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> So what is this site then? It covers gaming, general affairs and mostly technology, so what does your pedantic heart want to label it?



It's a gaming site.  Almost every forum has niche categories covering other interests, but that doesn't make them the specialty of the site.  You can tell just by glancing at the front page.  It's not so pedantic to say as it is pretty relevant to what we are talking about.



gizmomelb said:


> I have called it out, your general pendantry and talking down to people with essentially every single post you make. I (and I'm sure many others) have no respect for you at all.



"I have called you out, I declare."  Imposing that I subscribe to your analysis of me does not mean that you are correct in any way or form.  Like I said before, If there is something that I have said that you disagree with, then target that with your vocabulary and we can settle it.  Otherwise you are just name-calling without any form of argument.  I have looked at your history too, and it looks like you can't tell the difference between a turd and a margarita.  See how that works?



gizmomelb said:


> It is FREE as in there is $0 cost out of the patient's pocket...
> 
> Yes our taxes go towards covering medical care.



Phew.  I thought you were going to say something to the effect that taxes are trivial.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Phew.  I thought you were going to say something to the effect that taxes are trivial.



Absolutely not.. Australians pay quite high taxes, but we have a high quality of life with high quality free medical and education supplied.. we used to have free university education as well, but one of our major political parties managed to fuck that up by effectively selling government owned services and then ''letting the market decide''.  Well capitalism is a greedy, hungry beast that needs to constantly feed and thus degrades those services (see water, power and recently politicians were trying to sell of the government owned Medicare service to private enterprise - fuck them).


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Look.  I understand that no political arrangement on earth is perfect.  But also, it is nearly impossible to objectively compare them on a better than/worse than scale.  We all are suffering because politics do not cover the interests of everyone.


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Look.  I understand that no political arrangement on earth is perfect.  But also, it is nearly impossible to objectively compare them on a better than/worse than scale.  We all are suffering because politics do not cover the interests of everyone.



That we can agree on.

Though to me it seems to work better when the government and society is more focused on looking after all it's members and not forcing everyone to look after themselves.


----------



## susi91 (Nov 11, 2020)

lol, seems mike is a funny guy


----------



## smf (Nov 11, 2020)

susi91 said:


> lol, seems mike is a funny guy



He only states that there will be a smooth transition to a 2nd Trump administration. He hasn't stated what will happen when the electoral college meets and there is a Biden win.

Two hundred years of precedent is being ignored by Trump not conceding. He's like a used car salesman that is telling you to check the small print after selling you a lemon.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>


This post is conspiracy nonsense. The information in this post is, at best, unsubstantiated, and at worst, provably untrue. It demonstrates an unconditional embrace of political conservativism and a fundamental disregard for facts, and I'm not going to address the post in detail.

To the vast majority of people, including conservatives, you've discredited yourself and your case with this post. If it were me, I'd remove this photo out of overwhelming embarrassment.


----------



## smf (Nov 11, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Straight marriage benefits society as it allows the continuation of it.



I think you're confused between a concept created by humans (marriage) and the natural process that continues the human race (procreation).



UltraSUPRA said:


> Sex before marriage is immoral. I doubt that anyone is denying that.



A lot of people say you're wrong. Explain what is immoral about it?


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 11, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Sex before marriage is immoral. I doubt that anyone is denying that.


Why is it immoral? Is it because your Bible says so?

Doesn't the Bible say Adam and Eve were the first humans on earth? Didn't they have two sons called Cain and Able?

Who married Adam and Eve if they were the only humans?

They must of done the nasty outside of marriage to have created Cain and Able.

Just one of thousands of contradictory information in your made up book.

I can point out a lot more of these if you want


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Straight marriage benefits society


Same-sex marriage also benefits society.



UltraSUPRA said:


> as it allows the continuation of it.


Marriage of any kind doesn't inherently "allow the continuation" of society. Marriage is unneeded.



UltraSUPRA said:


> Sex before marriage is immoral. I doubt that anyone is denying that.


I'm denying it. There's nothing immoral about sex before marriage.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 11, 2020)

Y'know, it's funny in that really sad way how quickly the US went to banana republic tier of arguing about election results.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

2000 Elections - Part 2 is likely to happen.


----------



## susi91 (Nov 11, 2020)

Whats about this one^^


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

Boesy said:


> 2000 Elections - Part 2 is likely to happen.


It's really not, though. In 2000, the contention was over a gap of just a few hundred votes, not a few thousand. Bush's brother had also established butterfly ballots in Florida, which led to many voters casting votes for the person they didn't actually want. The only state that will likely have a recount is Georgia, but again, the gap is so wide that it's highly unlikely to cause the state to flip back. The Trump administration is failing, quite miserably might I add, to provide a single iota of evidence of widespread fraud taking place, thus having all of their suits thrown out. Honestly, the courts should go ahead and label them a vexatious litigant. This is when a litigant continuously files bad faith lawsuits with no evidence as a means to harass or subdue their adversary. This label would effectively stop them from filing suits, and would open the way for counter-suits.

Also, here's a useful video from an actual lawyer:


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> It's really not, though. In 2000, the contention was over a gap of just a few hundred votes, not a few thousand. Bush's brother had also established butterfly ballots in Florida, which led to many voters casting votes for the person they didn't actually want. The only state that will likely have a recount is Georgia, but again, the gap is so wide that it's highly unlikely to cause the state to flip back. The Trump administration is failing, quite miserably might I add, to provide a single iota of evidence of widespread fraud taking place, thus having all of their suits thrown out. Honestly, the courts should go ahead and label them a vexatious litigant. This is when a litigant continuously files bad faith lawsuits with no evidence as a means to harass or subdue their adversary. This label would effectively stop them from filing suits, and would open the way for counter-suits.
> 
> Also, here's a useful video from an actual lawyer:



I couldn't have put it better myself. This was not a close election.


----------



## Magnus87 (Nov 11, 2020)

To say that same-sex marriage is unnatural is not to know about nature itself. Homosexuality has existed since the beginning of time and in all species.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

> "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
> 
> -- Isaac Asimov, January 21, 1980


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 11, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> To say that same-sex marriage is unnatural is not to know about nature itself. Homosexuality has existed since the beginning of time and in all species.


Also it is beneficial in some animal groups. For example, in penguin communities, male/male mates will often "adopt" chicks that have been abandoned by their parents.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Also it is beneficial in some animal groups. For example, in penguin communities, male/male mates will often "adopt" chicks that have been abandoned by their parents.


TIL. That's a nice palette cleanser for this thread.

Anyway, back to the clownery. Giuliani featured a convicted sex offender at the Four Seasons press conference. I just feel embarrassed for the Republicans at this point.
https://www.politico.com/states/new...ni-press-conference-is-a-sex-offender-1335241


> Brooks was incarcerated in the 1990s on charges of sexual assault, lewdness and endangering the welfare of a minor for exposing himself to two girls ages 7 and 11, according to news accounts.



I love how they pretend that their party isn't teeming with pedophiles, and that "creepy Uncle Joe" is their favorite meme.


----------



## smf (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> The Trump administration is failing, quite miserably might I add, to provide a single iota of evidence of widespread fraud taking place, thus having all of their suits thrown out.



They are clearly just throwing crap lawsuits around hoping to appeal them up to the supreme court, which they've pre-rigged....

Rudy wants them to throw 120 thousand votes out that were counted when nobody was supposedly looking.
I'm not entirely sure that the "we were a long way away and it looked like the same pen" argument stacks up, but then I'm not invested in throwing the votes out.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

smf said:


> They are clearly just throwing crap lawsuits around hoping to appeal them up to the supreme court, which they've pre-rigged....


Their main argument is in defense of armed and violent protesters that tried to swarm voting locations that the police had to hold back. These are the "poll watchers" they're referring to. They had to board up and cover windows to keep these people out. The legal Republican watchers were in the building with the Democrat watchers. Nobody prevented them from watching, they just prevented the mobs from overtaking the buildings. So, to assert that nobody was watching at any one point is demonstrably untrue.


----------



## smf (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> The legal Republican watchers were in the building with the Democrat watchers.



Well supposedly one didn't make it in and the rest were kept away because the counters didn't want covid infected republicans breathing over them. I find rudy's explanation that they would have a democrat and republican arguing over which votes looked real kinda laughable. They wouldn't be finished counting by January for a start. Secondly it's unlikely they would remember the hand writing of every single ballot.

I reckon they are putting the emphasis on the mail in votes so that people don't look too closely at the in person votes that put Trump in front. Classic misdirection


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I'm denying it. There's nothing immoral about sex before marriage.


exactly how are you supposed to get good without practice. practice makes perfect and can't do that by wanking!


----------



## smf (Nov 11, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> exactly how are you supposed to get good without practice. practice makes perfect and can't do that by wanking!



Perfect for whom?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

I'm kind of surprised how confident everyone is this time around, and people are using the same sources that royally failed the first time Trump was elected.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm kind of surprised how confident everyone is this time around, and people are using the same sources that royally failed the first time Trump was elected.


it's not about confidence; Joe Biden won the election. Confidence is what people had before November 7.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm kind of surprised how confident everyone is this time around, and people are using the same sources that royally failed the first time Trump was elected.


What sources? If you mean the pre-election polls, those are a bit of a non-sequitur at this point. Those are what won 2016 for Trump, because people blindly followed aggregates and thought it was going to be in the bag for Hillary. Because of this, nobody bothered to go vote. People think differently this time because it's rather obvious that's not what happened for this election as demonstrated by the turnout. That isn't to say the aggregates weren't wrong in a lot of ways. They were massively off for Florida, and a bunch of states that went to Biden are considerably closer than what they were predicting.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> it's not about confidence; Joe Biden won the election. Confidence is what people had before November 7.



The election process isn't concluded, and the title of this thread is that Joe Biden becomes the 46th president of the United States.  This sensation is pretty familiar.


----------



## realtimesave (Nov 11, 2020)

JuanMena said:


> WHERE THE FUCK IS THE WALL WE WERE PROMISED?



You know what a lot of people don't understand about that wall is, it isn't to keep mexicans out. It's to keep people from ass-fuck countries like El Salvador and other central america countries that harbor criminals that commit crimes such as feminicide out of the USA.  It isn't an "anti-Mexican" wall at all.

Also, with this sleepy Joe president don't be surprised if he has to step down due to mental issues and suddenly you have a Black female president.  Make of it what you will but I don't like the idea of people from Oakland, CA being in power.  I don't care what color of skin they have, that place has the most idiotic people in the state of California living in it.  I have spent a number of years working in that city.  It is a dump.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The election process isn't concluded, and the title of this thread is that Joe Biden becomes the 46th president of the United States.  This sensation is pretty familiar.


Joe Biden is the presumptive President-elect of the United States.

The election process has, in fact, concluded. The only exceptions are a small number of votes that still need to be counted and some recounts, and it's impossible for either of these to change the results of the election. Joe Biden will be the 46th President of the United States come January 20.

Now, you are correct the Electoral College hasn't met yet, but that's not the "election process" as it's colloquially used. Come December 14, the Electoral College will _certify_ that Joe Biden is the President-elect of the United States.

If you want to compare this to 2016, compare your response to the few people who were in denial about Hillary Clinton's loss, talked about recounts and faithless electors in the Electoral College, etc. (Fun fact: The Supreme Court ruled recently against faithless electors).


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The election process isn't concluded


It would be if Trump weren't a disingenuous narcissist that would concede.


realtimesave said:


> You know what a lot of people don't understand about that wall is, it isn't to keep mexicans out. It's to keep people from ass-fuck countries like El Salvador and other central america countries that harbor criminals that commit crimes such as feminicide out of the USA. It isn't an "anti-Mexican" wall at all.


Except it would fail in keeping literally anyone out because the people who are illegally crossing the border don't do it by scaling a fucking wall. Also, the wind keeps blowing it over because it's made out of sheet metal, so good job.



realtimesave said:


> suddenly you have a Black female president


The horror.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> It would be if Trump weren't a disingenuous narcissist that would con


In any way it actually matters, the election process has ended, despite Trump's kicking and screaming.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> In any way it actually matters, the election process has ended, despite Trump's kicking and screaming.


I think this thread has reached too many pages. Post glitches keep happening with more frequency, heh.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> Also, with this sleepy Joe president don't be surprised if he has to step down due to mental issues and suddenly you have a Black female president.


Is the emphasis on Vice President-elect Kamala Harris' race and gender intended to be racist and sexist?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Another suspension... wow
Oh and, more cases for Trump has failed in courts. Same reason as the rest of them. Lack of evidence.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> presumptive



Yes.



Lacius said:


> The election process has, in *fact*, concluded.





Lacius said:


> Now, you are correct the Electoral College hasn't met yet, but that's not the "election process" as it's *colloquially* used.



That's the contradiction.  Formally, it has not concluded..



Lacius said:


> If you want to compare this to 2016, compare your response to the few people who were in denial about Hillary Clinton's loss, talked about recounts and faithless electors in the Electoral College, etc.



I'm not in denial.  I'm reluctant in calling him president before he becomes president.  There's an old saying about not counting your chicks before they hatch.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


dude. it's a solidly past 270. There is no turning it around. Most mail in votes do benefit Joe Biden for a few reasons.
1. Trump telling mail in ballots are fraudulent. It caused most republican to vote the day of the election
2. Most republicans don't worry about covid, while democrats do. Which means democrats are more likely to vote early or mail in ballot.
The only votes that are being counted for at this time, is those mail in votes. 
For all purposes the election has ended. While yes, they are still counting. It's too far of a lead to cause a change.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes.


_Presumptive_ means it's effectively over. Also, see below on how my use of the word "presumptive" was me being nice.



tabzer said:


> That's the contradiction.  Formally, it has not concluded..


The Electoral College has not met, but the electors are bound by the popular vote results of their states, and the elections in those states are over. See my post above. There is no contradiction. The election is effectively over. Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States.



tabzer said:


> I'm not in denial.


If you say anything other than "Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States" (assuming he doesn't die between now and January 20), you are in denial. Can you say that?



tabzer said:


> I'm reluctant in calling him president before he becomes president.


He's not the President of the United States until January 20, but the election is over, and he's the President-elect of the United States. I was being nice when I said he was the _presumptive _President-elect of the United States in an effort to save face for you, but that was apparently a mistake on my part since you are in denial. In reality, the meeting of the Electoral College is not a prerequisite for being the President-elect.



tabzer said:


> There's an old saying about not counting your chicks before they hatch.


The votes have been counted, and the election is over. The votes that have not been counted (and the votes that will be recounted) cannot mathematically change the results of the election.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 11, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> And suddenly you have a Black female president.  I don't care what color of skin they have,


If you didn't care about colour you wouldn't have said a Black female president you would have just said a female president or New president but nice try in trying to cover up your racism.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If you say anything other than "Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States" (assuming he doesn't die between now and January 20), you are in denial. Can you say that?



I have learned a lot from the past few years, and I do not know what's going to happen tomorrow.  I'm okay with that, mostly.



Lacius said:


> I was being nice when I said he was the _presumptive _President-elect of the United States in an effort to save face for you,



You are still being presumptive.  You didn't do anything for me.  That's disingenuous.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I have learned a lot from the past few years, and I do not know what's going to happen tomorrow.  I'm okay with that, mostly.
> 
> 
> 
> You are still being presumptive.  You didn't do anything for me.  That's disingenuous.


We don't know for sure what tomorrow holds, but we know the past, and we know Joe Biden won the election. He's the President-elect of the United States.

If you cannot say "Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States," then you are in the same bed as those in 2016 who wouldn't say "Trump will be the next President of the United States" and talked about Jill Stein's recount and faithless electors. The sooner you realize this, the better.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> We don't know for sure what tomorrow holds, but we know the past, and we know Joe Biden won the election.



Yes, in the colloquial sense.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes, in the colloquial sense.


It is mathematically impossible for anyone other than Joe Biden to win the election. It's over. He will be the next President of the United States, and it's not presumptuous to say so.

Do you agree with the people from 2016 who refused to concede that Clinton had lost and focused instead on recounts and faithless electors? If not, how do you explain the contradiction?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes, in the colloquial sense.


YES you tell him, College Student from Japan, who stated in not knowing much of about US Politics but clear upload Conservative Western Ideas that are not really seen in Eastern philosophy. Including the fact Japanese Prime Minster already Congratulation Biden.
YES you are impartial world observer , and not a fellow Republican disguise !!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It is mathematically impossible for anyone other than Joe Biden to win the election. It's over. He will be the next President of the United States, and it's not presumptuous to say so.
> 
> Do you agree with the people from 2016 who refused to concede that Clinton had lost and focused instead on recounts and faithless electors? If not, how do you explain the contradiction?



It is presumptuous.  As far as the people from 2016 who refused to concede that Clinton had lost, many of them still exist today and insist Trump is not their president.  I'm not agreeing with them or disagreeing with them.  I am recognizing that the system has not been operating conventionally for a while now.



djpannda said:


> YES you tell him, College Student from Japan, who stated in not knowing much of about US Politics but clear upload Conservative Western Ideas that are not really seen in Eastern philosophy. Including the fact Japanese Prime Minster already Congratulation Biden.



I see you are trying to say something, but I'm not quite sure what it is.  You lost me a while back when you said computer glitches were responsible for black voters.  What you are saying now is even more confusing.  I'm not very interested in working too hard to maintain a conversation with you.  Can you make your message (ie point) easier to read?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ok apology, Wondering how a person living in Japan has so much understanding of  Western Conservative US politics


----------



## Rj.MoG (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It is mathematically impossible for anyone other than Joe Biden to win the election. It's over. He will be the next President of the United States, and it's not presumptuous to say so.
> 
> Do you agree with the people from 2016 who refused to concede that Clinton had lost and focused instead on recounts and faithless electors? If not, how do you explain the contradiction?


No you're wrong. The man who wears adult diapers and sundowns is playing a game of 8d chess you just can't understand. Any minute he'll arrest hillary and obama in their birth certificate forgery ring. They've forged over 9000 birth certificates combined and stole the erection from trump


----------



## Magnus87 (Nov 11, 2020)

I have faith that Trump can still win. However, if he loses, he may appear for the next elections.


----------



## Rj.MoG (Nov 11, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> I have faith that Trump can still win. However, if he loses, he may appear for the next elections.


Translation, the sky man told me the man who has had multiple wives, alleged sexual abuse, paid a porn star and multiple financial crimes is a man i can trust


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I
> 
> 
> I see you are trying to say something, but I'm not quite sure what it is.  You lost me a while back when you said computer glitches were responsible for black voters.  What you are saying now is even more confusing.  I'm not very interested in working too hard to maintain a conversation with you.  Can you make your message (ie point) easier to read?


I mean,It does matter where you are from but as a Person from Japan, people that just joined the Convo might think you Live in America and have a horse in this race


----------



## Magnus87 (Nov 11, 2020)

Rj.MoG said:


> Translation, the sky man told me the man who has had multiple wives, alleged sexual abuse, paid a porn star and multiple financial crimes is a man i can trust



So Biden is a little angel of God who came to save us all ...



At least Biden knows how to smell your hair.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It is presumptuous.


It is not. Biden won 270+ electoral votes, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

If you're going to argue Biden didn't actually win 270+ electoral votes, that's denial.



tabzer said:


> As far as the people from 2016 who refused to concede that Clinton had lost, many of them still exist today and insist Trump is not their president.


It's disingenuous to say that "Trump is not my President" is anything at all comparable to "Trump is not the President of the United States."

Trump is not my President, but I've never argued that he's not the President. Fortunately, he will no longer be President starting January 20, 2021.



tabzer said:


> I'm not agreeing with them or disagreeing with them.  I am recognizing that the system has not been operating conventionally for a while now.


You either agree with them or you don't. Which is it? To be consistent, I assume you would have been right there with them in 2016 when they were denying that Trump had won. Am I mistaken?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ok apology, Wondering how a person living in Japan has so much understanding of  Western Conservative US politics


Do you think I have much understanding of Conservative US politics?  I don't think that.  I may be coming off conservative in relationship to this thread, but I'm pretty liberal and progressive in ways that don't match the context of what's being discussed.  I'm only trying to be prudent and be considerate of all factors.  People here seem to want to be polarized, but that's not progressive.  I'm curious about what you see in my attitude that are out of alignment with Eastern philosophy, and how that Eastern philosophy somehow manifests in the newly installed Prime Minister congratulating Biden.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> I have faith that Trump can still win. However, if he loses, he may appear for the next elections.


Trump already lost the election. Joe Biden is the President-elect of the United States. It's mathematically impossible for Trump to win.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Do you think I have much understanding of Conservative US politics?  I don't think that.  I may be coming off conservative in relationship to this thread, but I'm pretty liberal and progressive in ways that don't match the context of what's being discussed.  I'm only trying to be prudent and be considerate of all factors.  People here seem to want to be polarized, but that's not progressive.  I'm curious about what you see in my attitude that are out of alignment with Eastern philosophy, and how that Eastern philosophy somehow manifests in the newly installed Prime Minister congratulating Biden.


Whoa Im on ur side...."*GO Trump" *<-- see!
  I was thinking that there are only 2 major scenarios 

1. your a expat, who left the US for Japan because Japan has a better overall Economy, education and UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE meaning you abandoned  your mother country for one better (and people might say your opinion does not really mean anything)

2. your a army brat..like 15years old..

of course it can also be that your a fugitive running from the US



*or just envious of Japanese culture and Universal healthcare and make believe you are from there! and in that case, you would be labeled a person that lies and most of that you say should not be taken seriously But that would be silly….*

and again this is GBAtemp, not Immigration services lol


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It is not. Biden won 270+ electoral votes, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.



Wishing thinking wouldn't change anything.  What could change that is still a free radical, and the book is not formally closed



Lacius said:


> It's disingenuous to say that "Trump is not my President" is anything at all comparable to "Trump is not the President of the United States."



First, I didn't say that nor am I trying to make that point.  Second, what's the difference in the nuance?  My point was that people still don't accept the results of the previous election.  Instead of labelling them as being "in denial", they are an operating state of denial.



Lacius said:


> Trump is not my President, but I've never argued that he's not the President.



So that is how you have your cake and eat it too.  Have we ascended?



Lacius said:


> You either agree with them or you don't. Which is it? To be consistent, I assume you would have been right there with them in 2016 when they were denying that Trump had won. Am I mistaken?



You are mistaken.  I don't have to agree or disagree with something I don't relate to.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

@tabzer ..oh, sorry I  have seem to hit a nerve, I did not mean to out your witness protection program.. I am sure that the Fed would need to give you a new Identify . I hear Morocco is beautiful this time of year


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> So Biden is a little angel of God who came to save us all ...
> 
> 
> 
> At least Biden knows how to smell your hair.



Good news!  Trump's spiritual advisor has the "angels coming to save us all" market cornered.  Here she is summoning angels from Africa and South America for the sole purpose of getting Trump re-elected:




> *Paula White - A Sound of Victory Lyrics
> *
> and strike
> and strike
> ...


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Whoa Im on ur side...."*GO Trump" *<-- see!
> I was thinking that there are only 2 major scenarios
> 
> 1. your a expat, who left the US for Japan because Japan has a better overall Economy, education and UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE meaning you abandoned  your mother country for one better (and people might say your opinion does not really mean anything)
> ...



You seem a bit closed-minded.  I don't fit in any of the scenarios you've listed.  You can keep trying though.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What could change that is still a free radical


I literally cannot think of anything that would stop Joe Biden from becoming the next President of the United States, not counting something unrelated to the election like Joe Biden's hypothetical death between now and January 20, and you can't think of anything either. Biden won the election.



tabzer said:


> Second, what's the difference in the nuance?



Trump is not my President = Trump does not represent me nor my ideals.
Trump is not the President = Trump is not the President.



tabzer said:


> My point was that people still don't accept the results of the previous election.  Instead of labelling them as being "in denial", they are an operating state of denial.


Trump has been the President of the United States for approximately the last four years. Anyone who does not accept this is delusional, and these people largely don't exist.



tabzer said:


> So that is how you have your cake and eat it too.  Have we ascended?


See my explanation above. I'm sorry if English is not your native language and if that's causing communication problems.



tabzer said:


> You are mistaken.  I don't have to agree or disagree with something I don't relate to.


You agree or you don't agree. It's a jointly exhaustive dichotomy in the same way everything is X or not-X. You're also deflecting and refusing to answer my question.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> @tabzer ..oh, sorry I  have seem to hit a nerve, I did not mean to out your witness protection program.. I am sure that the Fed would need to give you a new Identify . I hear Morocco is beautiful this time of year



Umm..  what you said isn't that important to me.  You are overestimating yourself.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You seem a bit closed-minded.  I don't fit in any of the scenarios you've listed.  You can keep trying though.


sorry sorry, I seem to keep blowing your witness protection program new identity.!


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

LumInvader said:


>


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I literally cannot think of anything that would stop Joe Biden from becoming the next President of the United States, not counting something unrelated to the election like Joe Biden's hypothetical death between now and January 20, and you can't think of anything either.



I'm sure you could if you tried. 



Lacius said:


> Trump is not my President = Trump does not represent me nor my ideals.



The two statements are not equal.  The one on the left takes an extra step to deny Presidency.



Lacius said:


> You agree or you don't agree. It's a jointly exhaustive dichotomy in the same way everything is X or not-X. You're also deflecting and refusing to answer my question.



I'm giving you the answer that you don't like.



djpannda said:


> sorry sorry, I seem to keep blowing your witness protection program new identity.!



Yes, you said that twice now.  The second time doesn't make it more creative.  What are you trying to say?  My point of view is invalid because you don't know me?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm sure you could if you tried.


Could you tell me how it's mathematically possible for Trump to win?



tabzer said:


> The two statements are not equal.  The one on the left takes an extra step to deny Presidency.


I'm telling you what people mean when they say it. Nothing else matters.



tabzer said:


> I'm giving you the answer that you don't like.


I don't like that you aren't answering the question because you know it traps you in a contradictory position.


----------



## Rj.MoG (Nov 11, 2020)

Magnus87 said:


> So Biden is a little angel of God who came to save us all ...
> 
> 
> 
> At least Biden knows how to smell your hair.



I have faith

In no one but myself. Because I don't try to justify one persons or my own shitty actions by comparison to someone else. I take each individual and their actions on their own and can make my own conscious decisions without falling into common logical traps. They're both bad people but for completely different reasons. Biden is a weird guy and has done weird things. I don't really give a crap because none of these people are morally upstanding people. He doesn't lie about his policies though and there's something to be said for someone who sticks to their word and is generally of good moral character. I voted for Biden but he is not my candidate of choice. He's a very conservative candidate that historically has supported the same destructive economic policies of most politicians.

Edit:Also religious or not fuck people like you who talk about "god" choosing our political candidates. Our lord is an absent lord who has presented us with free will to make decisions righteous or otherwise. Don't pervert his name by pretending he supports either corrupt political party. And nowhere in my previous post did I say anything about Biden being a man of god.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)




----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Could you tell me how it's possible for Trump to win?



Be creative.  There are many ways.



Lacius said:


> I'm telling you what people mean when they say it. Nothing else matters.



Then it's not disingenuous to say that people still deny the results of the 2016 election.



Lacius said:


> I don't like that you aren't answering the question because you know it traps you in a contradictory position.



I answered the question.  You don't like the answer because it doesn't trap me into a contradictory position.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Be creative.  There are many ways.


It is mathematically impossible for Trump to win the election. If you are going to disagree with me, put up or shut up.



tabzer said:


> Then it's not disingenuous to say that people still deny the results of the 2016 election.


Yes it is. I already told you what was meant by the statement, and it wasn't "Trump is not the President of the United States." Don't be disingenuous.



tabzer said:


> I answered the question.  You don't like the answer because it doesn't trap me into a contradictory position.


The yes/no question was if you would have been among the people who claimed at this point in 2016 that Trump was not the winner because of recounts and faithless electors. You never answered that question, and considering your position, I don't blame you. To be consistent, you would have to say "yes" if you are, in 2020, refusing to acknowledge that Joe Biden is going to be the next President of the United States.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Could you tell me how it's mathematically possible for Trump to win?



I hope you aren't retro-actively editing all of your posts.  It's not reasonable to expect me to re-read pages back just to make sure that you haven't shifted the conversation from under my feet.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I still think it's amazing that you seem to think there was no vote fraud.


Now why would I think that?  Maybe it's because every credible elections expert, both Republican and Democrat, as well as a number of international elections organizations have verified that there was no significant fraud.  It's the Trump administration's job to prove that there was fraud, the onus isn't on everyone else to prove a negative.  So far they've presented *zero *evidence and have been laughed out of every courtroom they enter.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I hope you aren't retro-actively editing all of your posts.  It's not reasonable to expect me to re-read pages back just to make sure that you haven't shifted the conversation from under my feet.


I don't think I edited my post, and it doesn't say I did. Regardless, tell me how it's possible for Trump to win, or how it's mathematically possible for Trump to win. Put up or shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I don't think I edited my post, and it doesn't say I did. Regardless, tell me how it's possible for Trump to win, or how it's mathematically possible for Trump to win. Put up or shut up.



Okay.  First, it bothers me that you would lie about something so petty.  Obviously we both know you edited your post to include "mathematically" into the question.  And the way that you say "it doesn't say I did", seems to be an attempt to hide behind a defense that nobody even asked for. 

You are capable of scrutinizing, so I believe you are capable of thinking of ways for Trump to win the election.  Of course, I imagine that in most of those scenarios, math would have to be used.  You can shut up, if that's what you want out of this.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Okay.  First, it bothers me that you would lie about something so petty.  Obviously we both know you edited your post to include "mathematically" into the question.  And the way that you say "it doesn't say I did", seems to be an attempt to hide behind a defense that nobody even asked for.
> 
> You are capable of scrutinizing, so I believe you are capable of thinking of ways for Trump to win the election.  Of course, I imagine that in most of those scenarios, math would have to be used.  You can shut up, if that's what you want out of this.


I never lied, and I never said I didn't edit my post. I also said it doesn't matter, so again, put up or shut up. I'm sorry you're getting frustrated that I'm holding your feet to the fire, but it is what it is.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

You are lying to me right now.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Okay.  First, it bothers me that you would lie about something so petty.  Obviously we both know you edited your post to include "mathematically" into the question.  And the way that you say "it doesn't say I did", seems to be an attempt to hide behind a defense that nobody even asked for.
> 
> You are capable of scrutinizing, so I believe you are capable of thinking of ways for Trump to win the election.  Of course, I imagine that in most of those scenarios, math would have to be used.  You can shut up, if that's what you want out of this.


Hey guys... I don't think this is @tabzer anymore.. I think the witness protection people put him on a cargo plane and in route to MOROCCO.... because if not..... I would hate to think he *"would lie about something so petty"* as of where he would reside to appear like people from other counties would agree with our view of Trump winning.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are lying to me right now.


If you are going to call me a liar, please put up or shut up. "Putting up or shutting up" is apparently a difficult concept for you to grasp. Also, when calling someone a liar, please have the courage to tag the person you're calling out.

It should be noted that this is all blatant deflection on your part, and I'm not going to ignore this fact.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

I don't accept your terms.  I'm not telling you things you like to hear.  That's okay with me.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't accept your terms.  I'm not telling you things you like to hear.  That's okay with me.


You're saying Trump can still win, but you can't offer a way he could win. You're saying I lied, but you can't offer a way I lied. Facts aren't important to you, are they?

Put up or shut up, because you're embarrassing yourself.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't accept your terms.  I'm not telling you things you like to hear.  That's okay with me.


Look agent Albert WESKER from witness protection.. you don't have to continue acting and pretending to be like @tabzer any more with saying crazy Conservative Conspiracy Theories with no Proof......

Thats why I am here....OBama is a Lizard person!!!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You're saying Trump can still win, but you can't offer a way he could win. You're saying I lied, but you can't offer a way I lied. Facts aren't important to you, are they?
> 
> Put up or shut up, because you're embarrassing yourself.



I'm saying Trump could still win, but I am not offering a way he could win.  I'm saying that you are lying to me, as you are still being persistent in doing so.  It's not something that I need to prove when I know what I know, and you know what you know.  I don't owe you more than what I put up.  You aren't as entitled as you project.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm saying Trump could still win


He can't. If you are going to say he can, put up or shut up.



tabzer said:


> I'm saying Trump could still win, but I am not offering a way he could win.


That's kind of the entire problem, dude.



tabzer said:


> I'm saying that you are lying to me


You're saying I lied to you, but you are not offering a way I lied. That also is kind of the entire problem.



tabzer said:


> It's not something that I need to prove when I know what I know, and you know what you know.  I don't owe you more than what I put up.  You aren't as entitled as you project.


_You, tabzer, are a pedophile. It's not something that I need to prove when I know what I know, and you know what you know.  I don't owe you more than what I put up. You aren't as entitled as you project._

Do you see the problem now? If you are going to make a bold claim, particularly when you are challenging the character of someone to their face, you need to put up or shut up.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm saying Trump could still win, but I am not offering a way he could win.  I'm saying that you are lying to me, as you are still being persistent in doing so.  It's not something that I need to prove when I know what I know, and you know what you know.  I don't owe you more than what I put up.  You aren't as entitled as you project.



 AGENT WESKER enough with this facade, you pretending to be @tabzer from Japan is wrong.. *I'm saying that you are lying to me, as you are still being persistent in doing so. It's not something that I need to prove when I know what I know, and you know what you know. I don't owe you more than what I put up. You aren't as entitled as you project.  *AGENT WESKER


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> He can't. If you are going to say he can, put up or shut up.



No.



Lacius said:


> That's kind of the entire problem, dude.



That sounds like a problem for you.



Lacius said:


> You're saying you are lying to me, but you are not offering a way I lied. That also is kind of the entire problem.



Contextually, you can garner the information you need to deduce why I would make such a "baseless" claim.  I don't need timestamps and page history to engage the got-cha mentality that you want to practice. 



Lacius said:


> Do you see the problem now?



The problem I have is that you are being insincere while pretending to be righteous.  Calling me a pedophile doesn't change that for me.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The problem I have is that you are being insincere while pretending to be righteous.  Calling me a pedophile doesn't change that for me.


wait im lost ... who is an alleged pedophile? ..Agent Wesker or tabzer?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No.


Then there's no reason to listen to you. A claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You just sound foolish.



tabzer said:


> That sounds like a problem for you.


You're making unsubstantiated claims that we shouldn't pay attention to. How is that a problem for me? I'm not the one who sounds foolishly in denial.



tabzer said:


> Contextually, you can garner the information you need to deduce why I would make such a "baseless" claim.  I don't need timestamps and page history to engage the got-cha mentality that you want to practice.



I didn't say that I didn't edit my post.
The claim that I edited my post is an intended distraction from your own inability to argue the point you want to argue, particularly when I'm not arguing against my post being edited.
The point of my post, with or without an edit, remains the same.
If you're going to say I lied, it's up to you to, at the very least, point out the lie. Sorry, friend.



tabzer said:


> The problem I have is that you are being insincere while pretending to be righteous.


I could ask you to point out how I'm being insincere, but everyone knows how that's going to go (nowhere).



tabzer said:


> Calling me a pedophile doesn't change that for me.


I don't actually think you're a pedophile. Did you not understand my point?

I participate in these threads, not for the conservatives I respond to, but for the lurkers who might have agreed with the conservatives. I hope that the foolishness of tabzer on display here has helped some lurkers understand where a path without facts inevitably leads: looking foolish and depending on distractions and deflections. The good thing about the lurkers is, since they have no skin in the game, they're able to referee this objectively in their own heads.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I don't actually think you're a pedophile. Did you not understand my point?
> 
> I participate in these threads, not for the conservatives I respond to, but for the lurkers who might have agreed with the conservatives. I hope that the foolishness of tabzer on display here has helped some lurkers understand where a path without facts inevitably leads: looking foolish and depending on distractions and deflections. The good thing about the lurkers is, since they have no skin in the game, they're able to referee this objectively in their own heads.


no there define. a pedo somewhere.. and until we investigate this completely to get the proof..until then we have to assume there is
 we have to check everything otherwise what are they hiding... I am about sure about70% of the forum already believes it ...so we need to chk


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I don't actually think you're a pedophile. Did you not understand my point?


I'm starting to wonder if English isn't his first language, because this isn't the first time he's not understood facetiousness, or the first time he's misconstrued meaning by taking a statement as literal. Either that, or he really is just this uncharitable and disingenuous.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> I'm starting to wonder if English isn't his first language, because this isn't the first time he's not understood facetiousness, or the first time he's misconstrued meaning by taking a statement as literal. Either that, or he really is just this uncharitable and disingenuous.


As I stated earlier, I suspect English is not his first language. However, that's not an excuse for any of his behavior, and if it's not his first language, he probably shouldn't argue something he doesn't understand.

I don't feel bad for ripping him a new one.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> As I stated earlier, I suspect English is not his first language. However, that's not an excuse for any of his behavior, and if it's not his first language, he probably shouldn't argue something he doesn't understand.
> 
> I don't feel bad for ripping him a new one.


I'm not apologizing for his behavior, but if the Japanese flag is to be believed, sarcasm and the like don't really exist within their language or culture, so it tends to fall flat on them. This is why puns are one of their biggest forms of comedy. I'm just explaining the possible misunderstanding. But yeah, you're right that that doesn't excuse his refusal to take responsibility for the burden of proof, or being disingenuous toward the rest.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> I'm not apologizing for his behavior, but if the Japanese flag is to be believed, sarcasm and the like don't really exist within their language or culture, so it tends to fall flat on them. This is why puns are one of their biggest forms of comedy. I'm just explaining the possible misunderstanding. But yeah, you're right that that doesn't excuse his refusal to take responsibility for the burden of proof, or being disingenuous toward the rest.


It wasn't even that I was sarcastic, because I wasn't. It was totally lost on him that when I made an unsubstantiated accusation about him, that's the same as what he's doing.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> I'm not apologizing for his behavior, but if the Japanese flag is to be believed, sarcasm and the like don't really exist within their language or culture, so it tends to fall flat on them. This is why puns are one of their biggest forms of comedy. I'm just explaining the possible misunderstanding. But yeah, you're right that that doesn't excuse his refusal to take responsibility for the burden of proof, or being disingenuous toward the rest.


He did mention he was Japanese and that Most of Japan understood that the Biden was stealing the election.. he did seem like he was a native English speaker... of Course he can be Japanese and still be a Native speaker.. but noo . my theory of him being an American under witness protection seem the one that makes sense


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Then there's no reason to listen to you. A claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You just sound foolish.



A claim without evidence can be, and often is, accepted without evidence, too.  I'm not handfeeding you because I don't want to misrepresent the idea that this forum is even capable of being a central repository of facts when the past 67 pages already establish the contrary.  The notion that Trump can still win is no stakes expression of a possibility that is irrelevant and inconsequential to whether or not he does win.



Lacius said:


> You're making unsubstantiated claims that we shouldn't pay attention to. How is that a problem for me? I'm not the one who sounds foolishly in denial.



My claims are substantiated by many reasons that aren't formatted and submitted in any official way.  The claim that you are lying to me simply needed to be reviewed a few posts prior to be substantiated.  




Lacius said:


> I didn't say that I didn't edit my post.



The disclaimer, here "I didn't say that I didn't edit my post" is the kind of dishonesty I am talking about.



Lacius said:


> The claim that I edited my post is an intended distraction from your own inability to argue the point you want to argue, particularly when I'm not arguing against my post being edited.



No.  It's a real concern that distracted me from having confidence in this conversation as I noticed changes in your text when I was submitting a response.  Your responses make me suspicious that you would retro-actively edit posts to make yourself seem more intelligent and aware than you ever really were, perhaps even make me look like a fool in places where I wasn't really being a fool.



Lacius said:


> The point of my post, without or without an edit, remains the same



Contentious.



Lacius said:


> If you're going to say I lied, it's up to you to, at the very least, point out the lie. Sorry, friend.



I did.  And as you continue the façade, I can point out more aspects of it.



Lacius said:


> I don't actually think you're a pedophile. Did you not understand my point?



I saw intimidation in what you suggest you are capable of doing in the case I do not satisfy you.



Lacius said:


> I participate in these threads, not for the conservatives I respond to, but for the lurkers who might have agreed with the conservatives.



So, you are admitting that you see me as a conservative, and that it was your intended goal to exploit whatever you can to shame others to toe the line.  That's a classic puritan tactic.  Japanese society uses guilt and shame as conformity tools too.  It's something that I disagree with, as I see it a hindrance of self-expression, freedom of thought, and artistic expression--encouraging self-loathing to develop in its place.  Maybe that's how you were raised.  I don't think it's very honest.


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It wasn't even that I was sarcastic


That's why I said "and the like". Hyperbole, metaphors, analogies, idioms, and all the rest English speakers use to say something that doesn't mean what they literally said doesn't directly translate well because these are actually rather complex facets of the English language. Native Japanese speakers especially don't grasp it because like I said, these things really don't exist within the language or culture.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> that's the same as what he's doing.



Calling someone a pedophile because someone said you are lying is not the same thing.  One was retaliation, intended to be a lot harsher than the original claim--which was a genuine concern.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> \I don't think it's very honest.


YAYY your here... have you landed safely in Moccoro?Hows the weather? I told you it was beautiful!!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A claim without evidence can be, and often is, accepted without evidence, too.  I'm not handfeeding you because I don't want to misrepresent the idea that this forum is even capable of being a central repository of facts when the past 67 pages already establish the contrary.  The notion that Trump can still win is no stakes expression of a possibility that is irrelevant and inconsequential to whether or not he does win.
> 
> My claims are substantiated by many reasons that aren't formatted and submitted in any official way.  The claim that you are lying to me simply needed to be reviewed a few posts prior to be substantiated.


Put up or shut up.



tabzer said:


> The disclaimer, here "I didn't say that I didn't edit my post" is the kind of dishonesty I am talking about.


I didn't say that I didn't edit my post, and it doesn't matter if I edited my post to add an inconsequential word. Put up or shut up. Or better yet, drop the distraction entirely.



tabzer said:


> I saw intimidation in what you suggest you are capable of doing in the case I do not satisfy you.


You have completely missed my point when I made pretend accusations about you. I know you're not handfeeding me, but I'll handfeed you: If you can make baseless accusations, then that means anybody can make baseless accusations about anybody, and they're all equal. That was my point.



tabzer said:


> So, you are admitting that you see me as a conservative, and that it was your intended goal to exploit whatever you can to shame others to toe the line.  That's a classic puritan tactic.  Japanese society uses guilt and shame as conformity tools too.  It's something that I disagree with, as I see it a hindrance of self-expression, freedom of thought, and artistic expression--encouraging self-loathing to develop in its place.  Maybe that's how you were raised.  I don't think it's very honest.


The only thing I'm shaming is poor argumentation and poor discourse. I'm not shaming ideology, at least not today.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> YAYY your here... have you landed safely in Moccoro?Hows the weather? I told you it was beautiful!!


At least you are very transparent about ridiculousness.  I would say it's more honest than Lacius trying to bait people into saying things he feels morally superior in dismissing.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Calling someone a pedophile because someone said you are lying is not the same thing.  One was retaliation, intended to be a lot harsher than the original claim--which was a genuine concern.


If Person A makes a baseless accusation and claims to not have to defend it, and Person B makes a baseless accusation and claims to not have to defend it, they are on equal footing.

Also, my post was not retaliation. That's just asinine, as it was pretty clear I didn't mean it.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> At least you are very transparent about ridiculousness.  I would say it's more honest than Lacius trying to bait people into saying things he feels morally superior in dismissing.


 yea Lacius Is too dumb, he is presenting wild Conspiracy theories about Biden winning the election just because Biden won the popular vote and Electoral. and He does not believe the  claims of voter fraud just because there no proof... I mean what does Lacius need to belevie us ...real proof...?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea Lacius Is too dumb, he is presenting wild Conspiracy theories about Biden winning the election just because Biden won the popular vote and Electoral. and He does not believe the  claims of voter fraud just because there no proof... I mean what does Lacius need to belevie us ...real proof...?



He's not dumb.  He's very intelligent.  You are dumb.  But you don't try to hide it.  He tries to hide his dumb, which is why he calls technical fouls every time the conversation isn't going the way he wants it.  It's as if he thinks computers are superior to people, and that people should emulate the machines.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He's not dumb.  He's very intelligent.  You are dumb.  But you don't try to hide it.  He tries to hide his dumb, which is why he calls technical fouls every time the conversation isn't going the way he wants it.  It's as if he thinks computers are superior to people, and that people should emulate the machines.


When the person I'm talking to makes points I disagree with but can't back them up, trust me, the conversation is going exactly how I want it to go.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He's not dumb.  He's very intelligent.  You are dumb.  But you don't try to hide it.  He tries to hide his dumb, which is why he calls technical fouls every time the conversation isn't going the way he wants it.  It's as if he thinks computers are superior to people, and that people should emulate the machines.


 wait you said he was "very intelligent" but then stated "tries to hide his dumb"... im starting to believe you don't understand what those words mean....

[


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> When the person I'm talking to makes points I disagree with but can't back them up, trust me, the conversation is going exactly how I want it to go.



I know you want a disagreement, but when you say things like that, you are injecting points that I didn't make and trying to make me accountable for them.




djpannda said:


> wait you said he was "very intelligent" but then stated "tries to hide his dumb"... im starting to believe you don't understand what those words mean....
> 
> [


Nobody is perfectly smart.  Nobody is perfectly dumb.  It's when people try to pretend that the other doesn't exist in them, dishonesty is a result.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I know you want a disagreement, but when you say things like that, you are injecting points that I didn't make and trying to make me accountable for them.


Do... Do you... Do you not remember what we were just talking about? We very clearly disagreed about whether or not Joe Biden won the election (he did) and whether or not I lied (I didn't).


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I know you want a disagreement, but when you say things like that, you are injecting points that I didn't make and trying to make me accountable for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is perfectly smart.  Nobody is perfectly dumb.  It's when people try to pretend that the other doesn't exist in them, dishonesty is a result.


. yea it is dishonest to present information without any proof.. ..thats something a デクwould do because they do not know any better


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Do... Do you... Do you not remember what we were just talking about? We very clearly disagreed about whether or not Joe Biden won the election (he did) and whether or not I lied (I didn't).


I agreed with you on the colloquial sense, but not the contradicting, definite sense.  And you were lying to me when you said "I don't think I made any edits"--a false modesty that you tried to insulate with a "because the website doesn't show proof that I made an edit".  It's deceitful, and makes me think that you aren't above retroactively editing your posts to embellish them for your stated intention of making an example out of people.  It was a small thing, but in practice, it did change the nuance in a noticeable way for me.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

I know at least one conservative is going to say I'm being inappropriate, but this is an article from 2013 I have bookmarked that I read from time to time, and it always brings a smile to my face.

https://www.theonion.com/when-youre-feeling-low-just-remember-ill-be-dead-in-ab-1819584806


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> . yea it is dishonest to present information without any proof


I don't think that's true.  If the information is an opinion or a thought, it doesn't need to be anything more than what it is


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I agreed with you on the colloquial sense, but not the contradicting, definite sense.  And you were lying to me when you said "I don't think I made any edits"--a false modesty that you tried to insulate with a "because the website doesn't show proof that I made an edit".  It's deceitful, and makes me think that you aren't above retroactively editing your posts to embellish them for your stated intention of making an example out of people.  It was a small thing, but in practice, it did change the nuance in a noticeable way for me.


The only sense by which Trump won the election was an imaginary one.

There was nothing deceitful about my post. The more you bring it up, the less likely I think it is I edited the post.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I know at least one conservative is going to say I'm being inappropriate, but this is an article from 2013 I have bookmarked that I read from time to time, and it always brings a smile to my face.
> 
> https://www.theonion.com/when-youre-feeling-low-just-remember-ill-be-dead-in-ab-1819584806


Hey that my new source I used to determined Trump won.. !!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Hey that my new source I used to determined Trump won.. !!


You're a treasure.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't think that's true.  If the information is an opinion or a thought, it doesn't need to be anything more than what it is



 yes because information does not need to be real.. duh.. otherwise it would a [email protected]

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

soo please continue on providing us nonfactual information.. I hear if you say it 100times it because real! TRUMP WON.TRUMP WON.TRUMP WON  ETC..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Lie cheat and steal


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 11, 2020)

Fucking hell this thread is bloody crazy. Every time a tin hat wearing false claim making trump supporting flat earth believing bible bashing looney toon gets suspended for their insane actions another one turns up. And it now seems to be spreading from just being American idiots to Japan being infected by this insanity.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Lie cheat and steal


wait isn't David Chapman Really just Dave Chapelle...


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Lie cheat and steal


There is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. Put up or shut up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html

https://apnews.com/article/election...litics-media-1bf96bf3910bdcbe0f125958357c8f1a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...nt-trumps-false-claims-vote-fraud-chronology/


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

President Donald Trump's personal lawyer has confirmed proceedings have begun to sue over alleged "fraudulent ballots", claiming people will be "shocked" by the findings.

Rudy Giuliani tweeted that the Trump campaign has "sued to invalidate hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots in the Western District of Michigan".

https://internewscast.com/trump-lawyer-warns-you-will-be-shocked-over-ballot-findings/

While Dems are sitting in denial big things are going down. You don't have to agree, but your reality does not match actual reality.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Fucking hell this thread is bloody crazy. Every time a tin hat wearing false claim making trump supporting flat earth believing bible bashing looney toon gets suspended for their insane actions another one turns up. And it now seems to be spreading from just being American idiots to Japan being infected by this insanity.


to be fair, most Japanese fasely accept Biden as the winner.. so lets focus on Americans crazies .. I mean TRUTHERS.. instead

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> President Donald Trump's personal lawyer has confirmed proceedings have begun to sue over alleged "fraudulent ballots", claiming people will be "shocked" by the findings.
> 
> Rudy Giuliani tweeted that the Trump campaign has "sued to invalidate hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots in the Western District of Michigan".
> 
> ...


oh Rudy Giuliani did WOW!!... did he do it from four seasons total landscaping again or did he use the Hilton Manure plant


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Japan is just a satellite mirroring American Media/Politics.  They don't spend a lot of time contesting the results, as opposed to fearing what it might mean about the growing threat of China.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> President Donald Trump's personal lawyer has confirmed proceedings have begun to sue over alleged "fraudulent ballots", claiming people will be "shocked" by the findings.
> 
> Rudy Giuliani tweeted that the Trump campaign has "sued to invalidate hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots in the Western District of Michigan".
> 
> ...


Their lawsuits keep failing because there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 11, 2020)

this is actually good in a sense trump isn't leaving (for now) cause when they kick him out the'll already have the cuffs on him to haul him to prison to await trial for his numerous financial crimes


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

*Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud*

*



*

*A social worker in Mexia, TX, has been charged with 134 counts of elections fraud for *allegedly* registering 67 nursing home patients without their permission and forging their signatures on voter registration documents. Further, 16 of these victims would have been ineligible to vote due to mental incapacitation.*

*https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...er-charged-134-felony-counts-elections-fraud/*

All these cases of fraud
Dems: There's no fraud

Denying reality does not keep it from being reality.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Their lawsuits keep failing because there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


what are you talking bout ... they have evidence.. I mean its not like multiple lawyers and States are offering millions of dollar because they don't have anything...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


*holy SHIT 67.... dang... that is literally the largest voting fraud ever!!!! thats it throw out the 155 millions votes, its over*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Looks widespread to me.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


This is voter fraud, and it should be prosecuted.

I know she looks wide, but there is still no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> This is voter fraud, and it should be prosecuted.
> 
> I know she looks wide, but there is still no evidence of widespread voter fraud.



How many of those does it take?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


I also forget to mention that this *RECORD BREAKing 67 ballot* is in Texas (a state TRUmp won by millions) and it does not say who she voted for .... I vote it was for TRUMP he needs all ur help in TEXAS


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How many of those does it take?


Widespread voter fraud would perhaps be something large enough to potentially tip the election.

Trump won Texas by 647,076 votes, as of this post.
This woman registered 67 nursing home patients in Texas to vote.
My understanding is 0 of these votes were actually cast.
So no, this is not an example of widespread voter fraud. There's zero evidence of widespread voter fraud.

Edit: Also, do we know what the intent was behind the fraud? Was it to help Biden? Was it to help Trump? Was it not intended to help anybody?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Another Biden lie

During the first presidential debate between President Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Chris Wallace of Fox News asked Biden if he would “pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified,” to which the former vice president answered, “yes.”

“Will you urge your supporters to stay calm while the vote is counted, and will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?” asked Wallace of Biden at the first presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio.

“Yes,” answered Biden.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...ntil-the-election-is-independently-certified/

I'm sure you will have some defense for this but sorry, CNN and Fox News saying Biden won does not make it so anymore than me saying Ron Paul is President. Mainstream Media is not in charge of the election, much to their dismay I'm sure. Fact it has not been independently certified.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Another Biden lie
> 
> During the first presidential debate between President Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Chris Wallace of Fox News asked Biden if he would “pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified,” to which the former vice president answered, “yes.”
> 
> ...


wait lets go back to  four seasons total landscaping again ...have you seen there banquet hall? . IT is gorgeous I mean TRULLY befitting President Trump !!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Another Biden lie
> 
> During the first presidential debate between President Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Chris Wallace of Fox News asked Biden if he would “pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified,” to which the former vice president answered, “yes.”
> 
> ...


The election was independently certified before he declared victory. Biden didn't lie.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Trump has purchased the Pennsylvania database. They're going to know every dead person voting and illegal votes in the state by the time it's all said and done.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Trump has purchased the Pennsylvania database. They're going to know every dead person voting and illegal votes in the state by the time it's all said and done.


 I mean Rudy Giuliani was soo lucky to get space at  four seasons total landscaping.. I mean after he got caught on film expecting Oral sex from that Reporter, I never thought he would recover but not RUDY is soo munch better than that He's like "get me the place next to the Dildo Shop!!!!"


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

The chairman of the Federal Election Commission Trey Trainor said on Friday voter fraud is taking place in states still counting ballots.

During a Friday appearance on Newsmax TV’s “National Report,” Trainor said locations not granting observers access to watch the ballot counting process could be involved in voter fraud.

Trainor told Newsmax what is obvious to anyone paying attention, “I do believe that there is voter fraud taking place in these places. Otherwise they would allow the observers to go in.”

Check out the statement from the chairman of the Federal Election Commission.
pic.twitter.com/FBdZCGp5y9 

— Hans Mahncke (@HansMahncke) November 11, 2020


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Trump has purchased the Pennsylvania database. They're going to know every dead person voting and illegal votes in the state by the time it's all said and done.


Do some fact-checking for once in your miserable life.



> _Brad Heath, a Reuters reporter in Washington, D.C., said he had examined the 234 pages, a majority of which contained "pretty standard election stuff" already pushed by the Trump campaign, including how poll watchers couldn't get as close to the counters as they wished or couldn't re-enter the room when they left._



https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-election-affidavits-fraud-trump-1546698

The fact is that the lawsuits are being thrown out one by one. They have claims like "We weren't allowed to have count watchers" when they already had count watchers in the room, etc. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The chairman of the Federal Election Commission Trey Trainor said on Friday voter fraud is taking place in states still counting ballots.
> 
> During a Friday appearance on Newsmax TV’s “National Report,” Trainor said locations not granting observers access to watch the ballot counting process could be involved in voter fraud.
> 
> ...


SO @ForgotWhoIam . do you think Rudy deserves a bad rap for expect a BLOWIE from that reporter?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The chairman of the Federal Election Commission Trey Trainor said on Friday voter fraud is taking place in states still counting ballots.
> 
> During a Friday appearance on Newsmax TV’s “National Report,” Trainor said locations not granting observers access to watch the ballot counting process could be involved in voter fraud.
> 
> ...


There is no evidence that observers are being denied access where they are legally entitled to it. Exceptions include too many people in the room (there are at least some observers in the room already), observers wanting to get too close and/or harass the counters, etc.

There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html

https://apnews.com/article/election...litics-media-1bf96bf3910bdcbe0f125958357c8f1a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...nt-trumps-false-claims-vote-fraud-chronology/


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

just look at this traitor ...man don't these people understand once we lie .. I mean say unfactual information (thanx @*tabzer) we have to stick with it otherwise it looks bad*

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/pol...elical-conservative-biden-is-president-elect/


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 11, 2020)

*Trump Lawyer to Pennsylvania Judge: Nope, I’ve Got No Evidence of Voter Fraud*
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2020/11/11/voter-fraud-pennsylvania-lawsuits/


> "I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?" asked the judge.





> "To my knowledge at present, no," Trump campaign lawyer Jonathan Goldstein said.


Rinse.  Wash.  Repeat.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

The Spanish software company Scytl, which offers election manipulation software worldwide that is used in the USA, is right in the crosshairs.
The server for manipulation was in Germany (Frankfurt).
A rogue who thinks bad about it.
Tonight the US ARMY confiscated the servers with a huge contingent.

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/AndreasSchub/status/1325347577085177857

Scytl is a Barcelona-based company that provides electronic voting systems worldwide, many of which have proven vulnerable to electronic manipulation. Scytl has (or had) Soros and Democrat party connections. Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen's Vulcan Capital has invested $40 million in Scytl.


Read:
[link to twitter.com (secure)]
[link to twitter.com (secure)]

2004: In the documentary "America: Freedom to Fascism", a programmer testified in court at 1:28:05 that YES, the voting software can be be fixed to rig election without detection:



0/22/2020


Service Point Solutions, part of Paragon Group, announces the acquisition of Scytl, the Barcelona based company leader in digital voting and electoral modernization.
[link to www.scytl.com (secure)]


Service Point Solutions, a company quoted in the Spanish Stock Exchange and part of Paragon group, announced today the acquisition of Scytl, a Barcelona based company leader in digital voting and electoral modernization. The acquisition also includes Civiciti, the citizen participation platform launched by the software company in 2016, and Scytl subsidiaries in USA, Canada, Australia, France and Greece. This acquisition unveils Paragon’s group strategy to position Service Point Solutions as a pan-european platform for high-growth digital business.

Scytl is a world leader in secure online voting and election modernization software. Its technology has been successfully used by more than 30 countries around the world and is entering the private elections market as well. Scytl has a very strong presence in the United States, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, France, Netherlands and Spain. As part of its integration into the Paragon group, *the company will be renamed Scytl Election Technologies. (SET???)

Mr. Laurent Salmon, President of Service Point Solutions and Paragon Group’s CFO, commented “we are delighted to have acquired Scytl’s businesses and we are pleased to see that this transaction will expand the offerings that both companies provide to their clients.” Mr. Salmon continued, “we

In Dallas County, Texas, a deep red county, there was a sudden, unexpected blue wave in 2018. The computer logs revealed that ES&S technicians repeatedly overrode thousands of error codes for “time stamp mismatch” and “votes exceed ballots.” Essentially, they replaced votes. Then ES&S ignored the requirement that the data be saved for 22 months and destroyed everything.

Investigators also found an Excel spreadsheet file with Scytl algorithms projecting voting results on the NGP Van website. NGP Van does voter database and analytics for the DNC. It also works closely with ActBlue and ShareBlue.
[link to radiopatriot.net (secure)]



NGP VAN, Inc. is a privately owned voter database and web hosting service provider used by the American Democratic Party, Democratic campaigns, and other non-profit organizations authorized by the Democratic Party.
[link to www.ngpvan.com (secure)]
*


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The Spanish software company Scytl, which offers election manipulation software worldwide that is used in the USA, is right in the crosshairs.
> The server for manipulation was in Germany (Frankfurt).
> A rogue who thinks bad about it.
> Tonight the US ARMY confiscated the servers with a huge contingent.
> ...



There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Oh yeah I didn't forgot the fake news some of you posted from yesterday that the whistleblower recanted. Released tape of Federal agents intimidating USPS worker!


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The Spanish software company Scytl, which offers election manipulation software worldwide that is used in the USA, is right in the crosshairs.
> The server for manipulation was in Germany (Frankfurt).
> A rogue who thinks bad about it.
> Tonight the US ARMY confiscated the servers with a huge contingent.
> ...


*WHOOA be-careful there RUSSKI *people might thing ur a communist by post untruthful law from other Contries... 
unless you are claiming Putin gave it to you.. then its ok..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Oh yeah I didn't forgot the fake news from yesterday. Released tape of Federal agents intimidating USPS worker!



yes they did him dirty... it was like when I asked my 3 year old "did you eat the cookie" and she says "no" and I ask one more time than she caves and says "yes" and runs to her mother that I am being mean!!


----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 11, 2020)

Imagine how simple life must be through the mind of a conservative.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Imagine how simple life must be through the mind of a conservative.


YUP all we think about is just God, GUNs, Glory holes! .. I mean fearing minorties.. yah thats what I mean


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)




----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


>


THANK you*... just because Trump does not know how an election works that  does not mean his wrong!!! Thank you @ForgotWhoIam

oh and Obama Obama *rambles* Obama !! (Our standard response )*


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

The Dominion voting machines used in the 2020 election in many swing states possess inherent risks that experts have known about for months.
We’ve reported on the Dominion voting machines that were used in swing states in the 2020 election.

One individual who spoke out about the Dominion voting machines was a man by the name of John Brakey. John is a co-founder and Director of Audit USA:

Mr. Brakey shared that in March he and a reporter were not allowed access to the election management system (EMS) in Michigan during the primary there. In Michigan Dominion voting machines are used. Brakey said, “It felt like they were hiding the EMS from the public and us”.



Brakey also said this about the Dominion voting machines in the past:

It’s the optical scanners where the largest chance of cheating occurs.”

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ical-scanners-largest-chance-cheating-occurs/


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Oh yeah I didn't forgot the fake news some of you posted from yesterday that the whistleblower recanted. Released tape of Federal agents intimidating USPS worker!



The postal worker recanted.



ForgotWhoIam said:


>


A poll isn't illegal just because it doesn't show what you think it should show.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> The Dominion voting machines used in the 2020 election in many swing states possess inherent risks that experts have known about for months.
> We’ve reported on the Dominion voting machines that were used in swing states in the 2020 election.
> 
> One individual who spoke out about the Dominion voting machines was a man by the name of John Brakey. John is a co-founder and Director of Audit USA:
> ...


Can you demonstrate the voting machines were hacked in any meaningful way?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The Dominion voting machines used in the 2020 election in many swing states possess inherent risks that experts have known about for months.
> We’ve reported on the Dominion voting machines that were used in swing states in the 2020 election.
> 
> One individual who spoke out about the Dominion voting machines was a man by the name of John Brakey. John is a co-founder and Director of Audit USA:
> ...


*but can we get back to what really matters... Places with names that sound like Hotels that Rudy can book... may i suggest  "Holiday INN Christmas shoppe"*


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

I wonder why @ForgotWhoIam won't respond to my rebuttals. It's almost like he doesn't care about discourse.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I wonder why @ForgotWhoIam won't respond to my rebuttals. It's almost like he doesn't care about discourse.


OHH don't your worry my boy @ForgotWhoIam will come back with some untruthful tweet to show u all UP!!!  Just you wait


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


>


see my boy @ForgotWhoIam does not disappoint with some Random ass nobody tweeting with no source!! Hell yea baby


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The Spanish software company Scytl, which offers election manipulation software worldwide that is used in the USA, is right in the crosshairs.
> The server for manipulation was in Germany (Frankfurt).
> A rogue who thinks bad about it.
> Tonight the US ARMY confiscated the servers with a huge contingent.
> ...



no source and terrible german. yeah, seems totally legit.. also the guy who posted it is a qanon nut


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

More than 20,000 absentee ballots in Pennsylvania have impossible return dates and another more than 80,000 have return dates that raise questions, according to a researcher’s analysis of the state’s voter database.

Over 51,000 ballots were marked as returned just a day after they were sent out—an extraordinary speed, given U.S. Postal Service (USPS) delivery times, while nearly 35,000 were returned on the same day they were mailed out. Another more than 23,000 have a return date earlier than the sent date. More than 9,000 have no sent date.

https://epochtimes.today/tens-of-th...s-returned-earlier-than-sent-date-researcher/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ut2k4master said:


> no source and terrible german. yeah, seems totally legit.. also the guy who posted it is a qanon nut



It's translated the U.S. Army went to Germany to get the server. Very weak trolling on your part.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> More than 20,000 absentee ballots in Pennsylvania have impossible return dates and another more than 80,000 have return dates that raise questions, according to a researcher’s analysis of the state’s voter database.
> 
> Over 51,000 ballots were marked as returned just a day after they were sent out—an extraordinary speed, given U.S. Postal Service (USPS) delivery times, while nearly 35,000 were returned on the same day they were mailed out. Another more than 23,000 have a return date earlier than the sent date. More than 9,000 have no sent date.
> 
> ...


 what are you said the US is working with NAZI .... or that the US is the Nazis.. be clear please .. and include at less 2-3 tweets from random people!


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It's translated the U.S. Army went to Germany to get the server. Very weak trolling on your part.


i dont need a translation, whoever wrote it isnt german though. and the guy who posted it has no source because there is no source. youd think this would be all over the german news, but theres nothing. and we all know youre the troll in here


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> More than 20,000 absentee ballots in Pennsylvania have impossible return dates and another more than 80,000 have return dates that raise questions, according to a researcher’s analysis of the state’s voter database.
> 
> Over 51,000 ballots were marked as returned just a day after they were sent out—an extraordinary speed, given U.S. Postal Service (USPS) delivery times, while nearly 35,000 were returned on the same day they were mailed out. Another more than 23,000 have a return date earlier than the sent date. More than 9,000 have no sent date.
> 
> ...


 lol  I too made a program to change the word Biden to - President-elect Biden... its amazing.. I mean FRUAD!!!


----------



## Joom (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


>


I made a script that changes your name to something more accurate.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

Joom said:


> I made a script that changes your name to something more accurate.


I appreciate your commitment to that joke... I thought bout doing that but got too lazy


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Be careful everyone there's studies about how denial can be bad for mental health.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Be careful everyone there's studies about how denial can be bad for mental health.


Thats why you are acting like that I understand..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

here this might help you cope @ForgotWhoIam you have to take care of yourself!!
*The 7 stages of grief*

*Shock* and denial. This is a state of disbelief and numbed feelings.
Pain and guilt. ...
*Anger* and *bargaining*. ...
*Depression*. ...
The upward turn. ...
Reconstruction and working through. ...
*Acceptance* and hope.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Lie cheat and steal


Oh looky here a Republican election official in Philadelphia says he's seen no evidence of widespread fraud lol.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...y-commissioner-2020-election-cnntv/index.html


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh looky here a Republican election official in Philadelphia says he's seen no evidence of widespread fraud lol.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...y-commissioner-2020-election-cnntv/index.html


HEY you know we won't accept any   information thats not from Random tweets with no sources or Random blogs with no creditability


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


I will once again point out the gateway pundit is well known for making up shit.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 11, 2020)

Back for one more. The organization invited by the Trump administration themselves has found no evidenced of wide-spread voter fraud. Link to their preliminary report is included in the following article.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/XhlCZ4avYQb0jtdv7F3p

Wsj btw, are center-right.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 11, 2020)

I won't count on any of this to be true, but if Trump is going to win the election, this could be a "how". @Lacius 

If it is true, I can see this being very troubling for those who have already committed themselves to "knowing" the outcome.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I won't count on any of this to be true, but if Trump is going to win the election, this could be a "how". @Lacius
> 
> If it is true, I can see this being very troubling for those who have already committed themselves to "knowing" the outcome.


Thank you @tabzer .. for your nonfactual truth,  Please sit down and next time raise your hand


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

Dems even if you don't believe in a God you better get on your knees and hope this is not true.

Remember call or say of me what you want it is moot, what's going to happen is going to happen nothing any one of us can do to stop it.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Dems even if you don't believe in a God you better get on your knees and hope this is not true.


lol who told you to say that RUDY... get it because he wanted oral from that Reporter and got caught in on film!!


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 11, 2020)

How about you dotards link to some factual information that isn't from some random joe blow on Twitter, Facebook, or Fox News? I did. Look at my previous post. There is a link in that article to the preliminary report from the team that THE TRUMP ADMIN THEMSELVES INVITED. Going to cry fake news on that too?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

I was curious does Kanye West get to be President elect too? I mean nobody is saying his votes are fraudulent he might have beaten Joe.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

man @ForgotWhoIam  that was such a good joke .. that their knees because Rudy Giuliani how caught wanting sexual favors lol but seriously its not like Trump even had to deal with getting caught with.... stuff

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> I was curious does Kanye West get to be President elect too? I mean nobody is saying his votes are fraudulent he might have beaten Joe.


no Kanye cannot really claim to be President, he would have to at least pay off 2 or more pornstar.!


----------



## Lacius (Nov 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I won't count on any of this to be true, but if Trump is going to win the election, this could be a "how". @Lacius
> 
> If it is true, I can see this being very troubling for those who have already committed themselves to "knowing" the outcome.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Trump cannot win with lawsuits.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 11, 2020)

WTF Is this really Hillary or does she have a fat body double?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> WTF Is this really Hillary or does she have a fat body double?



@ForgotWhoIam.. how many hookers have you paid off.. I have only paid off one... Trump beat most of us with that too!

and Biden too.. Trump beat Biden on paying off more hookers... Man Trump can not be beat!!!


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 11, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Melissa Tate? Who the fuck is that? And Eric Trump? They guy that Tweet yesterday telling my home state to get out and vote, a week after the election? Yup. Quite the credible guy.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Melissa Tate? Who the fuck is that? And Eric Trump? They guy that Tweet yesterday telling my home state to get out and vote, a week after the election? Yup. Quite the credible guy.
> 
> View attachment 233645


well how else are we going to give TRUmp Minnesota? DUH


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)




----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


>



@ForgotWhoIam I remember when my dad from gave my my first hooker  he stated " Son every man needs to Grab them by the p#$$y" and handed me a $300,000, my dad and Trump were similar  that way


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

If Trump is defrauded out of the election he absolutely will be a security threat. Because he's going to reveal some dirty secrets about some traitors on both sides. This is why you have some saying to pull him out of the White House now. Trump could lose the fight but it's going to be by decision it's not going to be any knock out.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

@ForgotWhoIam what no reply from you as into why you keep posting links from The gateway pundit a site that admits to making up every single thing they post hmmm?? Nothing to say for your actions??


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If Trump is defrauded out of the election he absolutely will be a security threat. Because he's going to reveal some dirty secrets about some traitors on both sides. This is why you have some saying to pull him out of the White House now. Trump could lose the fight but it's going to be by decision it's not going to be any knock out.


there use to be a story of my uncle , he was running around to landscaping company saying random things and no one believed him. thats why I am soo Proud of Rudy. that was his third try .. the first 2 was just himself infront of a bag of manure


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If Trump is defrauded out of the election he absolutely will be a security threat. Because he's going to reveal some dirty secrets about some traitors on both sides. This is why you have some saying to pull him out of the White House now. Trump could lose the fight but it's going to be by decision it's not going to be any knock out.



Why you bothering, they'll just say "LUL like this site can be trusted, but allow me to link to google, a totally bipartisan company that definitely doesn't censor conservatives followed by a load of antifa loving lefty sites". Wasting your time


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Why you bothering, they'll just say "LUL like this site can be trusted, but allow me to link to google, a totally bipartisan company that definitely doesn't censor conservatives followed by a load of antifa loving lefty sites". Wasting your time



Who says I'm reading anything they have to say?

I'm not trying to convince anybody to change their minds, that's impossible. I just speak the truth.

They are the deniers of reality not me.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> If Trump is defrauded out of the election he absolutely will be a security threat. Because he's going to reveal some dirty secrets about some traitors on both sides. This is why you have some saying to pull him out of the White House now. Trump could lose the fight but it's going to be by decision it's not going to be any knock out.


wait @ForgotWhoIam @shamzie ... you do know that "CIA Director-select Poso".. is not really the CIA Director right ...( I mean I know he made a horrible ironic joke but you understand he not in the CIA right? because how you guys quote him I think you do )  its not like I can say that I am the original "sexual harassment  Pannda" or can I?


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 12, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> @ForgotWhoIam what no reply from you as into why you keep posting links from The gateway pundit a site that admits to making up every single thing they post hmmm?? Nothing to say for your actions??


He is so dead set on Trump being the winner that he doesn't even realize anymore how much bs he is posting. And of course he is ignoring us because he knows he will get roasted otherwise.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> He is so dead set on Trump being the winner that he doesn't even realize anymore how much bs he is posting. And of course he is ignoring us because he knows he will get roasted otherwise.


 please thats how me and @ForgotWhoIam roll.. we just go to random website and threads and post memes and random tweets. 
GBAtemp Check!
Next is housekeeping weekly.!! those forums better watch out!!!


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

I'm living in their heads rent free I'm not usually for hand outs (that's what they live for) but rent free is a good deal.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I'm living in their heads rent free I'm not usually for hand outs (that's what they live for) but rent free is a good deal.


yes we are living free in the their heads those libs..  all it took is posting in a unrelated gaming site, that most user don't take seriously for th WHOLE Day instead of doing something contructive like finding real voter fraud. but we @ForgotWhoIam did it ..WOHOO who are the losers now huh? WHO


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

Notice I didn't censor the liars that run twitter that they have a disclaimer below every one of his posts. No POTUS has ever been treated like Trump.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Notice I didn't censor the liars that run twitter that they have a disclaimer below every one of his posts. No POTUS has ever been treated like Trump.


so I think found out the problem on why we cannot  find voter fraud.. I was talking to my buddy and he ask me.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



and told him no.. but he still sent me a tweet of a trumpet


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 12, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Why you bothering, they'll just say "LUL like this site can be trusted, but allow me to link to google, a totally bipartisan company that definitely doesn't censor conservatives followed by a load of antifa loving lefty sites". Wasting your time


"Anyone that doesn't want to believe in sites that lean far-right and are known to spout out lies and conspiracy theories are obviously lefty antifa lovers" 

I am actually surprised you didn't throw commie in there for good measure.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> "Anyone that doesn't want to believe in sites that lean far-right and are known to spout out lies and conspiracy theories are obviously lefty antifa lovers"
> 
> I am actually surprised you didn't throw commie in there for good measure.



You're right he forgot commie.


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> They are the deniers of reality not me.


This is verbatim word for word what schizophrenics say. Schizophrenics deny having delusional paranoia because they can't come to terms with being mentally ill, and they believe it's everyone else that has a problem.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> "Anyone that doesn't want to believe in sites that lean far-right and are known to spout out lies and conspiracy theories are obviously lefty antifa lovers"
> 
> I am actually surprised you didn't throw commie in there for good measure.


 just because the website we use are not real, have any creditability, ask for donations from suckers  or were just created within the last week, does not mean they are not real

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

wait did I mention that they are not real.. because I created most those websites myself.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

@ForgotWhoIam still waiting for a reply from you about the Republican election official in Philadelphia that said there was zero voter fraud in Philadelphia. Nothing to say about this hmmm???


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You're right he forgot commie.


Except literally no one in here is a communist in the least sense of the word. 

And no just saying someone or something is communistic doesn't make it so. I know you struggle with subjective and objective things so I thought I would at least give you some help here.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I'm living in their heads rent free I'm not usually for hand outs (that's what they live for) but rent free is a good deal.


All these Biden supporters are living in your head rent free too. That's why you keep coming back with dozens of posts here. You just can't stop thinking about them.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

Poll: Less than Half of America Believes Joe Biden Won the Election

HANNAH BLEAU
November 11, 2020


Less than half of the American people believe Joe Biden (D) won the presidential election, according to a Tuesday survey from Just the News Daily and independent pollster Scott Rasmussen.

The survey, fielded November 5-7 among 1,200 registered voters, asked respondents, “Who do you believe legitimately won the presidential election this year?”

It found that 49 percent, overall, believe Biden won the presidential election. Over one-third of voters, or 34 percent, believe Trump won the presidential election, and 16 percent are “not sure” who won.

Views are sharply divided along partisan lines. Over three-fourths of Republicans, 77 percent, believe Trump won, compared to 12 percent who said Biden and 11 percent who said they were unsure.

CONTINUED AT:
[link to www.breitbart.com (secure)]


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> oll: Less than Half of America Believes Joe Biden Won the Election
> 
> HANNAH BLEAU
> November 11, 2020
> ...


yea and 90% of all kids believe in Santa claus...Heck thats I sit under the chimney every year ... just hoping..."Santa Where are you?" with a tear in my eyes because he never comes..


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

During CNN‘s broadcast on election night, the infamous fake news network appears to have accidentally aired vote fraud as it happened live.

As CNN‘s election analyst was busy whisking his fingers across the giant touch screen while speculating about all of Joe Biden’s “paths” to victory, the counter at the bottom of the screen shifted 20,000 votes from President Trump’s tally to Joe Biden’s.

Watch for yourself in the below video as the Trump column in Pennsylvania suddenly shifted these 20,000 votes into the Biden column for no apparent reason:

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-accidentally-broadcast-vote-fraud-live.html


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> The survey, fielded November 5-7 among 1,200 registered voters, asked respondents, “Who do you believe legitimately won the presidential election this year?”


>1,200
>Less than half of the American people

A literal fuck ton less. You know you're defeating your own argument, right? There's over 300 million people in the US.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> During CNN‘s broadcast on election night, the infamous fake news network appears to have accidentally aired vote fraud as it happened live.


So post the video instead of a bullshit site.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> During CNN‘s broadcast on election night, the infamous fake news network appears to have accidentally aired vote fraud as it happened live.
> 
> As CNN‘s election analyst was busy whisking his fingers across the giant touch screen while speculating about all of Joe Biden’s “paths” to victory, the counter at the bottom of the screen shifted 20,000 votes from President Trump’s tally to Joe Biden’s.
> 
> ...


 Santa Trump please come ... all the other kids say your not real.... but I believe you will come to give me presents!!


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 12, 2020)

Dude there is literally a least biased section at this site, please for the love of everything use a source from those if you want to be believed and not literally spewing conspiracy theory trash everywhere.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Poll: Less than Half of America Believes Joe Biden Won the Election
> 
> HANNAH BLEAU
> November 11, 2020
> ...


Oh look another post from a far right website known for making shit up even conservatives don't agree with anything they post


----------



## SG854 (Nov 12, 2020)

Joom said:


> >1,200
> >Less than half of the American people
> 
> A literal fuck ton less. You know you're defeating your own argument, right? There's over 300 million people in the US.
> ...


Why does he keep coming back with something different lol . He's looking real desperate right now. He keeps using sites that has flawed data that expect people like him that's easily manipulated and suckered in. That sample size is way too small. I wonder if he's self aware.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> President Donald Trump's personal lawyer has confirmed proceedings have begun to sue over alleged "fraudulent ballots", claiming people will be "shocked" by the findings.
> 
> Rudy Giuliani tweeted that the Trump campaign has "sued to invalidate hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots in the Western District of Michigan".
> 
> ...


Said lawyer cases have all been smacked down in court for a lack of evidence. nearly every single one has been dissmissed


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

To all the sane people here I wish you a good night as I'm off to bed. To the few absolute nutters that need to stop supporting the lying orange piece of shit I have one thing to say.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

*Federal lawsuit seeks to throw out 1.2M votes, flipping Michigan for Trump*

*https://www.mlive.com/politics/2020...ut-12m-votes-flipping-michigan-for-trump.html*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> To all the sane people here I wish you a good night as I'm off to bed. To the few absolute nutters that need to stop supporting the lying orange piece of shit I have one thing to say.
> 
> View attachment 233651


 you guys should listen to Jim Cornette  podcast .. its amazing!!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Federal lawsuit seeks to throw out 1.2M votes, flipping Michigan for Trump*
> 
> *https://www.mlive.com/politics/2020...ut-12m-votes-flipping-michigan-for-trump.html*


yes thank you Hopefully that lawsuit does not get throw out instantly from the Judge who laughed at them for not having proof


----------



## SG854 (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Federal lawsuit seeks to throw out 1.2M votes, flipping Michigan for Trump*
> 
> *https://www.mlive.com/politics/2020...ut-12m-votes-flipping-michigan-for-trump.html*


Dang don't scream it at me


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

djpannda said:


> you guys should listen to Jim Cornette  podcast .. its amazing!!



I listen to Jim and Hawaiian Brain all the time. I have no interest in wrestling I just listen to hear Jim talking the truth about president pig shit and to hear him argue with Brian Last about food 
. 

Anyway this time I really am away to bed lol.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

Trump before he's Republican President

















As soon as he becomes Republican President.






It seems like the brainwashing would wear off on some of you eventually that you're being lied too. But apparently you're lost causes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

BTW Biden better hope it doesn't go to the Supreme Court 30 years ago he called Clarence Thomas a rapist and a wife beater. It'll be payback time.







*"So, would you please explain to the court Mr. Biden why ballots were being delivered in Biden/Harris trucks?"*
*



*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

.. people make friends they later on regret ..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trump before he's Republican President
> 
> 
> As soon as he becomes Republican President.
> ...


like
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




dont they look soo cute together!


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trump before he's Republican President
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know you're being racist by participating in tokenism, right? "He can't be a white supremacist because he shook hands with the emperor of black people, Jesse Jackson!" And if you're gonna be a shitwit and show flagrant disregard toward everything Trump has done to harm minorities as well as his repeated dog whistling toward white nationalists and hate groups, I don't think you have any right to tell anyone that they don't know what racism is. Why are you such a bootlicking simp for Trump? You people are such fucking cultists, I swear.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

It'll be glorious.


----------



## Deleted member 412537 (Nov 12, 2020)

Well. its either that or shaking hands with some famous Asian person
+cough+ Kim Jung un +cough+
I dunno.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It'll be glorious.


I can't stop laughing on that this one ..Why did you make the Judge Darth Vader the Bad Guy, and Biden obwan the good guy... I don't think you understand how memes work! lolol


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It'll be glorious.


You know the "you ain't black" joke was referencing The Breakfast Club, a black podcast, right? They're the ones that made the joke first. Was it tactless and tasteless? Sure. Racist? No. But hey, I guess instead he could have said "all black people are murderers, rapists, and thieves, and we need to build a wall to keep them out".

Edit: I gotta stop saying "you know" to this kid already. I know he doesn't.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> It'll be glorious.


Admittedly, "Is that you Cornpop" made me laugh.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 12, 2020)

Is that you snaggle puss?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

Don't worry everyone I'm coming clean I'm turning myself in. I've tweeted the Hurt Feelings Police and confessed that I've hurt your feelings they're on their way to arrest me.

Hurt Feelings Police
@HurtFeelingsPD
For when people are physically hurt by words. Which is never.

https://twitter.com/hurtfeelingspd

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Rae Chornenky, the Maricopa County GOP Chair, has been forced to resign following her failure to sign the Certificate of Accuracy for the voting machines.

Maricopa County in Arizona, which contains the state capitol Phoenix, has been at the center of attention following the election, being judged as crucial to President Trump’s chances of winning the state. At the time of writing, Arizona is still counting its votes, and a winner has not been declared by most media organizations, bar Fox and the AP.

A number of allegations of voter irregularities have also arisen in Arizona. However, the Certificate of Accuracy, that should be signed by representatives of both parties, ensuring no fraud can occur, was not signed by any Republican. Maricopa County GOP Chairman Rae Chornenky failed to show up to verify the document, leaving only Democrats and representatives from the Secretary of State to sign it.

Arizona State Representative, and now State Senator-elect, Kelly Townsend, called on Chornenky to resign, along with her 1st Vice Chair Linda Brickman. “This is 100% unacceptable and has contributed to the collapse of Arizona voter confidence,” Townsend tweeted.

https://nationalfile.com/arizona-ma...s-following-failure-to-check-voting-machines/

She's a Republican maybe she didn't do it on purpose but she didn't do her job which is make sure voter machines were on the up and up.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Communist News Network at it again.  Did every Democrat senator congratulate Trump when he won? Will they congratulate him when he wins again?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Notice I didn't censor the liars that run twitter that they have a disclaimer below every one of his posts. No POTUS has ever been treated like Trump.



When are you people going to wake the fuck up? The people the Trump administration asked to do the job were absolutely 100% allowed to watch and observe. While Pennsylvania was not one of the states, Michigan and many others were. There's no logical reason Pennsylvania would be any different. Trump flat out LIED to you. It's right there in the report. Did you even read it OR the article? Evidently not. He LIED. He's saying not allowed to watch or observe in Michigan. He LIED. Period. His appointed team were there. Period. Fact. No reason he wouldn't also be lying about Pennsylvania given they found NOTHING in every state they observed. Again, with the exception of voter intimidation on behalf of The Cult of Dotard. This isn't from some far let wing Dem outfit. IT'S THE PEOPLE THE TRUMP ADMIN ASKED TO DO THE GD EFFING JOB! WAKE UP!

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-biden-election-day-2020/card/XhlCZ4avYQb0jtdv7F3p


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Don't worry everyone I'm coming clean I'm turning myself in. I've tweeted the Hurt Feelings Police and confessed that I've hurt your feelings they're on their way to arrest me.


Oh shoot that good that you called them. Because  you, me and trump are going to need it after all those lawsuit fail


----------



## omgcat (Nov 12, 2020)

gonna be interesting now that trump lawyers need to put their law license on the line if they keep working for trump. My best guess is that most of them are gonna nope the fuck out soon. not worth throwing away your career for someone who might never pay you anyways.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)




----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> gonna be interesting now that trump lawyers need to put their law license on the line if they keep working for trump. My best guess is that most of them are gonna nope the fuck out soon. not worth throwing away your career for someone who might never pay you anyways.


Have you heard about the "Election Defense Fund"? It's Trump's exit scam. If people donate to it, they're promising to give back "%1000" (%120) once he rightfully wins. It literally sounds like one of those crypto scams. I feel bad for the suckers who pay into this, because they'll never see a dime back What's worse is that they somehow believe he needs their money.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 12, 2020)

Yeah. At this point, I don't think he actually thinks that he has a chance to win and just trying to get money.


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> I don't think he actually thinks that he has a chance


I think he knew this the moment they called the election. Why do you think he's been hiding?


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 12, 2020)

@ForgotWhoIam - Posting crappy memes about Biden losing doesn't mean he actually lost.

All you're doing is making yourself seem more braindead than most Trump supporters tend to lean to by default.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 12, 2020)

oh boy. the best part about these recounts is that they could take up to weeks/months if they are done by hand. if no result is certified Pelosi becomes president on 1/20/2020, so GG for the GOP i guess, didn't know they liked Pelosi so much.

wish the lazy counties would let the working counties lead the country.







all this bitching and moaning about liberals not doing enough work/ are ruining the economy is horseshit.


----------



## PiracyForTheMasses (Nov 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> oh boy. the best part about these recounts is that they could take up to weeks/months if they are done by hand. if no result is certified Pelosi becomes president on 1/20/2020, so GG for the GOP i guess, didn't know they liked Pelosi so much.
> 
> wish the lazy counties would let the working counties lead the country.
> 
> ...


That is not how it works. Nancy Pelosi has no shot at presidency, more fake news.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 12, 2020)

PiracyForTheMasses said:


> That is not how it works. Nancy Pelosi has no shot at presidency, more fake news.


Actually, if Trump delays shit for too long in court, yes she does. He can't stay elected president after the deadline passes and neither can Pence. Pelosi is the third candidate in line since she's the speaker of the House, and unlike the two clowns first in line for her, she got re-elected.

Granted, this election has basically been called. Recounts aren't going to change this election all that much. The most that usually gets shuffled around is somewhere around a 100 votes per state, and Trumps lawyers are repeatedly getting laughed out of court, and SCOTUS isn't too interested either in letting Trump ratfuck his way to the presidency by SCOTUS ruling.

(They don't want to risk a repeat of 2000, when their dicking with stopping the Florida recount caused severe damage to the credibility of SCOTUS. Another attack would make it acceptable for Democrats to start packing it, which they _really_ don't want).


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

You speak as if you consider Pelosi as a level up.  May I ask why?


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> gonna be interesting now that trump lawyers need to put their law license on the line if they keep working for trump. My best guess is that most of them are gonna nope the fuck out soon. not worth throwing away your career for someone who might never pay you anyways.


I really hope this is happening. At this point they are throwing shit at the wall hoping something sticks. They should be required to stop this nonsense until they can backup their claims with real proof (they can't). Filing a flood of lawsuits does nothing but wastes time of the courts.

It's becoming clear they are playing on time trying to play the Busch vs. Gore card.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> I really hope this is happening. At this point they are throwing shit at the wall hoping something sticks. They should be required to stop this nonsense until they can backup their claims with real proof (they can't). Filing a flood of lawsuits does nothing but wastes time of the courts.
> 
> It's becoming clear they are playing on time trying to play the Busch vs. Gore card.


"Throwing shit at the wall" is according to your democratic sources, which have already demonstrated clear bias and selective cherry picking as does the "right".  There is another side proposing another story.  Democratic sources have already proven themselves unreliable as we have seen in the last election.  It's repeating the same mistake to subscribe to your party line's news letter.  I think it is more insightful to consider all sources, and attempt to see what they are saying with eyes unclouded by bias.  There are facts in almost every article, left or right, but they are subtle.  For example, everyone made monkey noises over that Breitbart poll article, but the contents of the article actually made Biden look better than Trump.  I'm surprised that no one here has pointed that out.

*It is an unprecedented event, for an official to claim voter fraud, which I have personally waited for over a decade to happen.  I don't have a lot of confidence in it, but I hope it results in a more reliable democratic process... but I cannot help but to shake the feeling that it's all still just a show.  Especially considering Trump's involvement.  Anyway, we are at a unique point of history that cannot be genuinely be compared to the last election round.

INB4 @Lacius gives another "that's because [excuse of why he's not 'technically' wrong]" BS.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Throwing shit at the wall" is according to your democratic sources, which have already demonstrated clear bias and selective cherry picking as does the "right".  There is another side proposing another story.  Democratic sources have already proven themselves unreliable as we have seen in the last election.  It's repeating the same mistake to subscribe to your party line's news letter.  I think it is more insightful to consider all sources, and attempt to see what they are saying with eyes unclouded by bias.  There are facts in almost every article, left or right, but they are subtle.  For example, everyone made monkey noises over that Breitbart poll article, but the contents of the article actually made Biden look better than Trump.  I'm surprised that no one here has pointed that out.
> 
> *It is an unprecedented event, for an official to claim voter fraud, which I have personally waited for over a decade to happen.  I don't have a lot of confidence in it, but I hope it results in a more reliable democratic process... but I cannot help but to shake the feeling that it's all still just a show.  Especially considering Trump's involvement.  Anyway, we are at a unique point of history that cannot be genuinely be compared to the last election round.
> 
> INB4 @Lacius gives another "that's because [excuse of why he's not 'technically' wrong]" BS.


Considering there's no actual evidence of widespread voter fraud, Trump is absolutely throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick. The lawsuits keep getting thrown out left and right.

Also, what do you mean when you say "Democratic sources have already proven themselves unreliable in the last election"? What sources? How did they demonstrate unreliability?

In 2016, neither the news nor the Clinton campaign contested the results of the election.


----------



## smf (Nov 12, 2020)

The case is quite interesting, they want to strike ballots where the voter either failed to put their complete address or put it in the wrong place & where they got the date wrong (entering their date of birth for example). Even though the barcode allows them to identify the address & the date seems superfluous if the ballot arrived before voting closed.

https://webcache.googleusercontent....mery-County-BoE.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

I guess they are looking for a win that they can broadcast to their sheep as a sign of a stolen election as 592 ballots are not going to make a difference to the result.

Essentially Trump wants to disenfranchise 592 voters.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

Evidence you don't like, or evidence you dismiss outright doesn't make zero evidence.  You could say that there is zero evidence that anybody vote for Biden and maintain the same face.  .




Lacius said:


> Also, what do you mean when you say "Democratic sources have already proven themselves unreliable in the last election"? What sources? How did they demonstrate unreliability?
> 
> In 2016, neither the news nor the Clinton campaign contested the results of the election.



Oh right,  99% is technically okay, because 1% is still a possibility.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 12, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> @ForgotWhoIam what no reply from you as into why you keep posting links from The gateway pundit a site that admits to making up every single thing they post hmmm?? *Nothing to say for your actions?*?


ForgotWhoIam won't answer because he has most of us on ignore:


ForgotWhoIam said:


> *Most of you are on ignore so I don't know/care what you're saying.*



If one spams misleading\debunked social media posts directed at a group of people, but has that group on ignore, it's pretty damn clear that his or her motive* is not to have a rational conversation*. 

If readers got all of their information from this thread, they'd might come away believing that twitter users and misinformation peddlers are the ones deciding the validity of this election.  But in the real world, it's up to the states to certify the results, the electors to cast their votes, and the courts to consider Trump's lawsuits, and if the pattern continues, *throw them out*.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Evidence you don't like, or evidence you dismiss outright doesn't make zero evidence.  You could say that there is zero evidence that anybody vote for Biden and maintain the same face.  .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@tabzer is right!!
yea just because People say OBama is for not a Lizard person does not mean hes NOT a Lizard person..


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> his or her motive* is not to have a rational conversation*.


Is there someone here that wants to have a rational conversation?  I mean, just look at @djpannda, @Lacius's pet [email protected]$#$d.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Is there someone here that wants to have a rational conversation?  I mean, just look at @djpannda, @Lacius's pet [email protected]$#$d.


 yea anybody??
 because me and @tabzer want to avoid providing real Facts and  want to cope by making believe nonfactual information matters because we fell for far right website that say trump won and that Lizard people are real!!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

Case *in point.  Sorry, but it is what it is, unfortunately.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Case and point.  Sorry, but it is what it is, unfortunately.


Yes it is what it is and it's bloody hilarious. Not our fault you can't quite grasp what @djpannda is actually doing or see the sheer genius in it


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

Nice use of  "our"--almost as if you rely on him as a support animal.  Calling it genius is a disservice to him , but he's not quite genius enough to recognize that.


----------



## smf (Nov 12, 2020)

djpannda said:


> @tabzer is right!!
> yea just because People say OBama is for not a Lizard person does not mean hes NOT a Lizard person..



Of course it doesn't mean that. Although you'd still need to prove that Lizard people exist and that Obama was a lizard person regardless & I don't think that evidence exists.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nice use of  "our"--almost as if you rely on him as a support animal.  Calling it genius is a disservice to him , but he's not quite genius enough to recognize that.


speaking of things that don't matter, Me and @tabzer were speaking in good Housekeeping weekly forums last night and people were agreeing with us about ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes its real because it was retweeted by a random person with no source!!


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 12, 2020)

Zuckerberg is more likely to be a lizard person I would say.


----------



## smf (Nov 12, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> The most that usually gets shuffled around is somewhere around a 100 votes per state, and Trumps lawyers are repeatedly getting laughed out of court, and SCOTUS isn't too interested either in letting Trump ratfuck his way to the presidency by SCOTUS ruling.



Well we shall see.

I may be giving Trump too much credit, but I kinda expect him to mess up these cases either as a sign that the establishment is against him or just as a way of getting an appeal granted up to scotus where he pulls out some evidence at the last second that looks compelling enough but if he revealed it now then it would be argued away by the time it gets to court.

Either that or he is an idiot, but I'm not committing to that yet.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

Are you aware of how irrelevant your point is @LumInvader.  It doesn't matter what anyone says.  Mob mentality rules here, and if someone feels like they can piss you off, that's more important than rational dialogue.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Are you aware of how irrelevant your point is @LumInvader.  It doesn't matter what anyone says.  Mob mentality rules here, and if someone feels like they can piss you off, that's more important than rational dialogue.


good point just because a lot of people ( news reports, the courts, government offices, most world countries,all 75 million votes) say lizard people aren't real or that Trump didn't win, does not mean MOB mentality should win and Correct me when I am wrong!!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

I already did, but that didn't stop you from carrying on.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I already did, but that didn't stop you from carrying on.


yes because the Truth is not going to stop me believing in TRUMP!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

What?


----------



## smf (Nov 12, 2020)

djpannda said:


> or that Trump didn't win, does not mean MOB mentality should win and Correct me when I am wrong!!



Mob mentality shouldn't win and Trump supporters are the Mob.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What?


youre getting trolled by this guy lol.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

I know, I'm partially annoyed and partially entertained.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> youre getting trolled by this guy lol.


hey be nice @tabzer is not a troll, just he like me and does not believe in actual truth, only the nonfactual informtion in our hearts!


----------



## smf (Nov 12, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> youre getting trolled by this guy lol.



I give him the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't cost me anything and if he's a troll then it's just wasting his time thinking that I'm upset with what he's saying, but really I'm just bored.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Are you aware of how irrelevant your point is @LumInvader.  It doesn't matter what anyone says.  Mob mentality rules here, and if someone feels like they can piss you off, that's more important than rational dialogue.


TBH, you seem to be one of the brighter conservatives on here.  I feel bad for you in the sense that most of those who rival your intellect happen to be on the other side of the aisle.  

With regard to dj, I've indeed noticed that you've had difficulty holding a conversation with him.  As you said, he is a guard dog.  It's difficult to tell his exact breed from his avi, but that's how I imagine him appearing IRL.  His posts are a mix of solid takes with some low level trolling.  I find him funny -- but I can see why you wouldn't.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 12, 2020)

It was all above board. Free and fair, nothing to see here.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Throwing shit at the wall" is according to your democratic sources, which have already demonstrated clear bias and selective cherry picking as does the "right".  There is another side proposing another story.  Democratic sources have already proven themselves unreliable as we have seen in the last election.  It's repeating the same mistake to subscribe to your party line's news letter.  I think it is more insightful to consider all sources, and attempt to see what they are saying with eyes unclouded by bias.  There are facts in almost every article, left or right, but they are subtle.  For example, everyone made monkey noises over that Breitbart poll article, but the contents of the article actually made Biden look better than Trump.  I'm surprised that no one here has pointed that out.
> 
> *It is an unprecedented event, for an official to claim voter fraud, which I have personally waited for over a decade to happen.  I don't have a lot of confidence in it, but I hope it results in a more reliable democratic process... but I cannot help but to shake the feeling that it's all still just a show.  Especially considering Trump's involvement.  Anyway, we are at a unique point of history that cannot be genuinely be compared to the last election round.
> 
> INB4 @Lacius gives another "that's because [excuse of why he's not 'technically' wrong]" BS.


You are not wrong. Bias exists on both sides. However i would not consider random tweets news. As for the unreliability the only unreliable thing so far i saw was the prediction for the election. It was quite a bit off but i think no one was surprised this time unlike 2016. The same would probably happen if more right leaning news sites would run the polls.


Unrelated to the answer above:
I think some people are a little dishonest with themselves. If your "team" doesn't win it's a shock but eventually you have to accept it. The time of red and blue is over but it's not the end of the world since everyone gets another shot in 4 years voting for their party. The longer people keep fighting a lost battle the harder it will be to admit. Don't look back - look forward.

I think many seek normality in these crazy times and that is why so many want Biden. Hate is not thhe answer and never was for both sides. Unfortunately we are seing history repeating itself and the hate getting stronger everywhere in the world. Don't let fear and hate rule over you. It's what inevitably leads to war in the end. War is something no one wants.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

I appreciate the sincere posts.  They mean a lot to me.  I'm only conservative in this thread because I'm reluctant to say "it's finally over".  I honestly think Trump could have a trick up his sleeve and is not as stupid as people want to say.  That makes me a Trump supporter to some people even though I don't vote.  Why do I have to belong on one side or the other?  I hate everyone equally.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm reluctant to say "it's finally over".  I honestly think Trump could have a trick up his sleeve and is not as stupid as people want to say.


no don't say that its over ... I mean look at all the lawsuit we won in Pennsylvania, and Michigan and Georgia, Trump already shown all the proof of voter fraud that we need in his tweets. 
.. yes Im pretty sure Trump has a con to try to stay in power.. or at least burn the house down.


----------



## notimp (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I appreciate the sincere posts. They mean a lot to me. I'm only conservative in this thread because I'm reluctant to say "it's finally over". I honestly think Trump could have a trick up his sleeve and is not as stupid as people want to say.


Its beyond stupid at this points. His (leftists) biographer over the years says, that this is the start of his 'political media entertainer' career. The one he always wanted.

He will stay in the media limelight for a long time. 

https://www.dw.com/en/trump-biographer-hell-finally-get-what-he-wanted/a-55572903

He will even get his own 'Obama birther scandal', 'voting fraud' fringe news channel.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Yeah, the lawsuits would do most likely nothing. The only way he would is the college somehow giving him the win. And that happening for the second time in a row, with him losing the popular vote, for the second time in a row,  and him with all of the stuff that has happened over the years, with the election and stuff, yeah it isnt likely.
To me, if biden wins, corona virus will go away will go away much faster, but the problems afterwords is kinda iffy. WIth trump, the coronavirus will take a much bigger toll, but the stuff he will enact is something? I dont know, this whole thing is very weird.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Is there someone here that wants to have a rational conversation?  I mean, just look at @djpannda, @Lacius's pet [email protected]$#$d.


Respectfully, I've tried to have a rational conversation with you, but it always ended with you literally saying "my opinion is my opinion, and I don't have to back it up with facts."


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nice use of  "our"--almost as if you rely on him as a support animal.


 you are right I am just a poor frail little woman who relies on men for support. 

Kid you really don't know me do you


----------



## Lacius (Nov 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Evidence you don't like, or evidence you dismiss outright doesn't make zero evidence.  You could say that there is zero evidence that anybody vote for Biden and maintain the same face.  .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whether or not evidence is demonstrable of a claim is objective, not subjective. In other words, there's no such thing as "alternative evidence" in the same way there's no such thing as "alternative facts." Does anybody else remember "alternative facts"?

Here on Earth 1, in reality, there is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. I'm not aware of any, the Trump legal team isn't aware of any, and you aren't aware of any.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Driving_duck said:


> Yeah, the lawsuits would do most likely nothing. The only way he would is the college somehow giving him the win. And that happening for the second time in a row, with him losing the popular vote, for the second time in a row,  and him with all of the stuff that has happened over the years, with the election and stuff, yeah it isnt likely.
> To me, if biden wins, corona virus will go away will go away much faster, but the problems afterwords is kinda iffy. WIth trump, the coronavirus will take a much bigger toll, but the stuff he will enact is something? I dont know, this whole thing is very weird.


The lawsuits keep getting shutdown when the Trump legal team can't actually provide evidence of widespread voter fraud. Nothing will come of the lawsuits. The good news is, with Biden as the President-elect, we can stop paying attention to Trump's desperate attempts for attention.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> I appreciate the sincere posts.  They mean a lot to me.  I'm only conservative in this thread because I'm reluctant to say "it's finally over".  I honestly think Trump could have a trick up his sleeve and is not as stupid as people want to say.  That makes me a Trump supporter to some people even though I don't vote.  Why do I have to belong on one side or the other?  I hate everyone equally.


If you can't say you were on the side of the Clinton supporters in 2016 who were in denial, refused to acknowledge the results of the election, and only wanted to talk about recounts and faithless electors, then you're a hypocrite. That's what makes you come off as a Trumper.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Seriously this place has gone to poo.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

And this is the reason why i dont like talking about being a demo. Its people like you lacius, who are trying to do things right, seem like the sterotype of and SJW the demo are, when me a good amount of them are knowing enough to try to be respect somewhat instead of being immeditlly defensive. He lives in JAPAN! He cant vote, so what your beef with him? This is why demos get such a bad rap.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> He lives in JAPAN!


Supposedly.  If that were the case though, he'd have no horse in this race, and he'd have no problem conceding that Biden won the election.  Instead, his prose and his talking points reflect that of any other braindead Trump-supporting election "truther."


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 12, 2020)

Found the fraud.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Found the fraud.



she did the honorable thing in 2016, how else did we expect Trump to win... by the merits of his work?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Supposedly.  If that were the case though, he'd have no horse in this race, and he'd have no problem conceding that Biden won the election.  Instead, his prose and his talking points reflect that of any other braindead Trump-supporting election "truther."



Seriously?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Seriously this place has gone to poo.


it's hilarious best popcorn theater ever. trump LOST fair and square but try telling that to these people. the only reason who won the first time is because they didn't want a woman president


----------



## Xzi (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Seriously?


Yes, seriously.  In-depth debates on the subjects of policy and/or legislation would make far more sense, but why would a citizen of Japan spend hours arguing over who won the US election?  That'd be like me trying to claim there was a bunch of fraud in the UK's elections and their vote to leave the EU.  Either he's actually an American Trump supporter, or he's extremely tuned in to American conservative propaganda for some odd reason.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

IM saying i treat people who are trump supporters as very misguided, not comeplete brain dead morons. You guys try to have to be somewhat respectful against the trump supporters. And dont worry, i can make this is a cuss bomb if i really wanted too. There really dumb, but dont go all pissy unless they really being bad.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> IM saying i treat people who are trump supporters as very misguided, not comeplete brain dead morons. You guys try to have to be somewhat respectful against the trump supporters. And dont worry, i can make this is a cuss bomb if i really wanted too. There really dumb, but dont go all pissy unless they really being bad.


Fair enough.  We had to deal with four years plus two campaigns worth of pettiness, hatred, and vindictiveness from Trump and his supporters, but it can't hurt to try to be the better man.  I just don't expect a countrywide "Kumbaya moment" any time soon, what with so many people still in denial about the election results.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> why would a citizen of Japan spend hours arguing over who won the US election?


To be fair, there are a bunch of people from outside the US arguing in here including myself. But i'm on the other side and can't really stand Trump. I don't know why someone outside the US would be pro-Trump unless you heavily benefit from his trade "war" (like Taiwan and Mexico).


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Yeah, no one can deny that there is a huge shitstorm going on right now, with trump being the cheeto man he always is, People wanting different states gone, China is about the throw a hissy fit soon, and coronavirus trying to kill us off.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> IM saying i treat people who are trump supporters as very misguided, not comeplete brain dead morons. You guys try to have to be somewhat respectful against the trump supporters. And dont worry, i can make this is a cuss bomb if i really wanted too. There really dumb, but dont go all pissy unless they really being bad.


Ridiculous behavior is subject to ridicule, by definition.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Ridiculous behavior is subject to ridicule, by definition.



Yeah, you can tell them there being real idiots, but dont throw all you have at them unless there a really bad case like roach. And in that case, you can use cuss words all you want.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> And this is the reason why i dont like talking about being a demo. Its people like you lacius, who are trying to do things right, seem like the sterotype of and SJW the demo are, when me a good amount of them are knowing enough to try to be respect somewhat instead of being immeditlly defensive. He lives in JAPAN! He cant vote, so what your beef with him? This is why demos get such a bad rap.


Yeah, i guess it's better to have a serious conversation trying to convince people from the other camp what is wrong with their party. Unfortunately a few people are so deep into conspiracies you can't talk to them. They will be offended by everything that even remotely goes against their ideologies/party like that putin avatar dude. He lost every single bit of credibility when he said Hitler is a lefty (when he even had any credibility to begin with).


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Yeah 


ghjfdtg said:


> Yeah, i guess it's better to have a serious conversation trying to convince people from the other camp what is wrong with their party. Unfortunately a few people are so deep into conspiracies you can't talk to them. They will be offended by everything that even remotely goes against their ideologies/party like that putin avatar dude. He lost every single bit of credibility when he said Hitler is a lefty (when he even had any credibility to begin with).


Yeah, like i said, people like Roach, Putin guy, is a lost cause, just avoid him and his idiotic rambling, though if you start to throw every cuss world in the book, yeah i wouldnt blame you.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> IM saying i treat people who are trump supporters as very misguided, not comeplete brain dead morons. You guys try to have to be somewhat respectful against the trump supporters. And dont worry, i can make this is a cuss bomb if i really wanted too. There really dumb, but dont go all pissy unless they really being bad.



Nope, they don't get to be belligerent assholes for 4 god damn years and then blubber and cry when they don't win. If we sit here and placate the trumpers, we are rewarding their behavior. Fuck em.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Nope, they don't get to be belligerent assholes for 4 god damn years and then blubber and cry when they don't win. If we sit here and placate the trumpers, we are rewarding their behavior. Fuck em.



That is what im saying! Try to say, your full of shit, and tell them the reasons why. Only use all of your engery when you have a really dumb one though. Do you even understand my comment?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Try to make them see the error of their ways, and if they dont listen, (Haha thats gonna happen a lot) Then i dont fucking care, just do whatever the hell you can do.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> you are right I am just a poor frail little woman who relies on men for support.
> 
> Kid you really don't know me do you



So you turned what I said into being about you, exclusively, and a gender issue.  I guess I am learning.  Animals can be girls *too, btw.  I am probably wrong though, as you can recognize genius.


----------



## RichardTheKing (Nov 12, 2020)

Wasn't Biden a previous Vice President, or something?

I guess he's been Biden his time until he became President, and his opponent got Trumped in this competition.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> That is what im saying! Try to say, your full of shit, and tell them the reasons why. Only use all of your engery when you have a really dumb one though. Do you even understand my comment?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Try to make them see the error of their ways, and if they dont listen, (Haha thats gonna happen a lot) Then i dont fucking care, just do whatever the hell you can do.



Just remember that most of these people have been radicalized to the point where we can't help them. though i wish that we could.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 12, 2020)

Biden was vice preaident of obama so yes.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 12, 2020)

RichardTheKing said:


> Wasn't Biden a previous Vice President, or something?
> 
> I guess he's been Biden his time until he became President, and his opponent got Trumped in this competition.


I see what you there HA!


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> You guys try to have to be somewhat respectful against the trump supporters.


Except we really don't because they're the most disrespectful and uncharitable people on the face of the planet. Respect begets respect, and if they make it a point to be disrespectful, why should we reciprocate with respect? They will continue be disrespectful, too, regardless of whether we show respect or not. I also can't bring myself to show respect toward bigotry and ignorance. It's entirely undeserving of it. You're defending people who show blatant disregard for their fellow man, ignore empirical evidence that supports the health of all life, and only care about serving their own interests in the most unhealthy and detrimental way imaginable. People on the left have also been the MAGA doormat for the past 4 years, so fuck showing them any respect. It only enables them because they see at as a point of weakness that they can target.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

Aw oh, Clarence Thomas is waiting.


----------



## RichardTheKing (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Aw oh, Clarence Thomas is waiting.


What even is "SCOTUS"?


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

RichardTheKing said:


> What even is "SCOTUS"?


The Supreme Court of the United States.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

RichardTheKing said:


> What even is "SCOTUS"?



Surpreme Court of the United States. Where this man has been waiting 30 years for his revenge on Mr. Joseph Biden.


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

^The only time you'll see a Republican acknowledge that a black man should have power in this country.


----------



## RichardTheKing (Nov 12, 2020)

Joom said:


> The Supreme Court of the United States.





ForgotWhoIam said:


> Surpreme Court of the United States. Where this man has been waiting 30 years for his revenge on Mr. Joseph Biden.


Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Aw oh, Clarence Thomas is waiting.


Doesn't mean shit state officials have said even without the discounted votes Bidon still won in Pennsylvania. 


https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-la...urt-tosses-some-mail-in-ballots-with-id-fixes


----------



## Joom (Nov 12, 2020)

+1 to the mod who put that in his sig.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 12, 2020)

Joom said:


> +1 to the mod who put that in his sig.


Haha bloody brilliant.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Respectfully, I've tried to have a rational conversation with you, but it always ended with you literally saying "my opinion is my opinion, and I don't have to back it up with facts."



You've tried to make me choose between Trump and Clinton as if it would have any impact on the current situation.  I don't think that is rational.  When I refused, you kept being disrespectful about it.  What you want from this conversation is probably different from what I want.



Lacius said:


> Whether or not evidence is demonstrable of a claim is objective, not subjective. In other words, there's no such thing as "alternative evidence" in the same way there's no such thing as "alternative facts." Does anybody else remember "alternative facts"?



You are not an authority or someone that I would personally trust to decide what is and what is not evidence, as it seems as if you have already decided the outcome of all news cycles between now and Biden's anticipated transition.  There is evidence.  Whether that evidence is condemning, accurate, fraudulent, misconstrued, unnoticed, unsubmitted, or enough--it is the court process deciding "the truth".



Lacius said:


> Here on Earth 1, in reality, there is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. I'm not aware of any, the Trump legal team isn't aware of any, and you aren't aware of any.



I guess that's your opinion based on a lack of facts.



Lacius said:


> If you can't say you were on the side of the Clinton supporters in 2016 who were in denial, refused to acknowledge the results of the election, and only wanted to talk about recounts and faithless electors, then you're a hypocrite. That's what makes you come off as a Trumper.



Why would that make me a hypocrite?   I wasn't on anyone's side.  People thought Clinton could still win on a technicality or a recount, but she didn't.  People think Trump could bring forth an earth shattering case of massive voter fraud.  He still hasn't, to my knowledge.  Will he?  I don't know.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 12, 2020)

@ForgotWhoIam 
Your "memes" were moldy before they even existed. No one is laughing.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 12, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> @ForgotWhoIam
> Your "memes" were moldy before they even existed. No one is laughing.



Cornpop was funny.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

If your party ends up losing an election they thought they won by being exposed for rigging it, it's probably the end of your party. Credibility is everything and yours will have zero. You can think what you want about me I don't care but this is reality.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Nov 12, 2020)

I´m curious: Why are there so many African-American vote counters? On Chinese and German media you constantly see them as if they made up 80% of the US population.
Perhaps it is coincidence.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 12, 2020)

Copium overdose still ongoing?
sure does look like it.

People:"Trumps cases are being thrown out in court"

the copium addicts: "LOOK ANOTHER COURT CASE BEING FILED! RiGgEd EleCtIon!"


I'm generally finding this insanity with how much these guys are disenfranchised with reality. When people tell you that the court cases are being thrown out/dismissed. They continue still talking like that evidence didn't exist. When you tell them reality of things that Trump can't win, due to statistics regarding the votes being counted as of now. They say Trump can still win.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 12, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Copium overdose still ongoing?
> sure does look like it.
> 
> People:"Trumps cases are being thrown out in court"
> ...


Their train of thought in a nutshell:


----------



## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Their train of thought in a nutshell:


this made me laugh from my heart..." aurora borealis" HA


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 13, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> When you tell them reality of things that Trump can't win, due to statistics regarding the votes being counted as of now. They say Trump can still win.


So they indirectly admit the numbers are real knowing he can only win by undermining democracy.


----------



## Joom (Nov 13, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> So they indirectly admit the numbers are real knowing he can only win by undermining democracy.


I mean, yeah. Trump is quite transparently trying to throw out actual legal votes by saying "only count the legal votes". For example, he's trying to throw out some 3,000 military votes in Nevada because those votes came from people who were re-stationed after mailing in their ballot. We also know the majority of mailed in ballots came from Democrat voters because Trump told his support not to vote by mail, all the while lying about ballots for him being found in rivers and other nonsense. It's beyond ridiculous to shoot yourself in the foot and then blame the gun.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 13, 2020)

Him replacing people in high positions of the pentagon with loyalists is also quite alarming.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> They continue still talking like that evidence didn't exist.



If that is a claim you are making of me, I would appreciate a reference of such a situation.  If you aren't casting shade on my personal character then you can ignore this.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Their train of thought in a nutshell:


The reason you cant see it is because its done in ways that cant be proven - post facto.

So how about manipulation like gerrymandering and announing two weeks before election that student ids (with photo) are not a sufficient form of I.D., but gunclub membership cards are?

How about delisting voters, with a prison sentence to their name, unless they go through a convoluted and costly process, which impacts _mostly_ black peoples vote?

How about the electoral college system (which focuses mostly on countries in the rural south)? That still stands, because of a filibuster of three white supremacist members of congress, way back when (might remember that incorrectly).

How about the possibility, that when you push out the official declaration of the winner, past a certain date - states can announce who their electoral votes go to, based on the government for that state, which by then will be mostly republican?

How abou the fact, that the last time it came to this was at the end of the civil war, where a pro black rights candidate became president, but Northern Union forces had to leave the south as a compromise, which pushed back black civil rights for centuries?

None of that count? 

edit:

But let me say this loud and clear. I believe that Trump will lose GOP support after the senate elections are over. The GOP support for his 'maybe we can still get this by delaying' efforts is _only_ a way to signal to the populist base 'GOP is with you', and 'your sensibilities matter'.

This notion will eventually be discarded going forward.


----------



## Joom (Nov 13, 2020)

If anyone's interested, here's a debunking of the Eerie, PA whistle blower. Y'know, the ace in the hole that Project Veritas is gonna get sent to prison because of their own hubris.





notimp said:


> How about delisting voters, with a prison sentence to their name, unless they go through a convoluted and costly process, which impacts _mostly_ black peoples vote?


I know of some black people without a criminal record that were delisted. They voted in the primaries, but had to re-register to vote in the election. This was in Atlanta, too, of course.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You've tried to make me choose between Trump and Clinton as if it would have any impact on the current situation.  I don't think that is rational.  When I refused, you kept being disrespectful about it.  What you want from this conversation is probably different from what I want.


That's not what I did. I suggest you re-read my posts, because that wasn't the point I was trying to make.



tabzer said:


> You are not an authority or someone that I would personally trust to decide what is and what is not evidence, as it seems as if you have already decided the outcome of all news cycles between now and Biden's anticipated transition.  There is evidence.  Whether that evidence is condemning, accurate, fraudulent, misconstrued, unnoticed, unsubmitted, or enough--it is the court process deciding "the truth".=


Your argument appears to be that there's evidence, but it's just really bad evidence. Cool. That's not exactly contrary to anything I've said.



tabzer said:


> I guess that's your opinion based on a lack of facts.


It's not my opinion. You objectively cannot articulate any evidence of widespread voter fraud, nor can anyone else. Put up or shut up.



tabzer said:


> Why would that make me a hypocrite?   I wasn't on anyone's side.  People thought Clinton could still win on a technicality or a recount, but she didn't.  People think Trump could bring forth an earth shattering case of massive voter fraud.  He still hasn't, to my knowledge.  Will he?  I don't know.


Did you acknowledge Trump's victory November 8-9, 2016? If so, you are a hypocrite for all of the reasons I already stated.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Lacius said:


> That's not what I did. I suggest you re-read my posts, because that wasn't the point I was trying to make.



Ok.  I see you just want me to say that I am a hypocrite.  I am sometimes.



Lacius said:


> Your argument appears to be that there's evidence, but it's just really bad evidence. Cool. That's not exactly contrary to anything I've said.



A mixed bag of evidence that hasn't been fully processed, or possibly yet submitted.  It is not a "zero evidence" confidence game.  It's an annoying reality tv show with an obvious plot unfurling.  I do not believe that you have seen the season finale.



Lacius said:


> It's not my opinion. You objectively cannot articulate any evidence of widespread voter fraud, nor can anyone else. Put up or shut up.



Can't, won't, haven't.  Please respect the nuance if you are going to be technical.  Trump refused to concede, made a bold claim, and it is up to him to back it up.  Until he is completely struck down, it is not something I have confidence that you can be accountable for.



Lacius said:


> Did you acknowledge Trump's victory November 8-9, 2016? If so, you are a hypocrite for all of the reasons I already stated.



You are drawing a false equivalence.  People were holding their breath until Clinton conceded.  Regardless of how I feel, you are suggesting that I am misrepresenting myself because "history happened".


----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 13, 2020)

The strongest argument for better healthcare in this country are Trump supporters themselves. They need all the professional help they can get.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 13, 2020)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*officer in charge of defending our election from digital voter fraud just resigned*

*



*


----------



## omgcat (Nov 13, 2020)

remember what i said about veritas? https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkd...tent=link&ICID=ref_fark&utm_source=reddit.com


----------



## SG854 (Nov 13, 2020)

How many people did ForgotWhoIam ignore?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> remember what i said about veritas? https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkd...tent=link&ICID=ref_fark&utm_source=reddit.com


https://rottenwebsites.miraheze.org/wiki/VICE


----------



## Jayro (Nov 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes !! please let us fact check the ballots... in Philly, Atlanta. No Real American can believe that Minorities voted in record numbers.. but lets only check the places they voted ..no where else.


Minorities are sick of Trump's bullshit.


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 13, 2020)

Mayor De Blasio’s daughter slipped up and said Biden was able to STEAL the election..Does she have some inside information?🤔 pic.twitter.com/z1n6uXX8Sm— Tariq Nasheed 🇺🇸 (@tariqnasheed) November 11, 2020


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## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1326564689833234432


Yes. Some people say Me and @UltraSUPRA are the worst kind of hypocrites.. Christain hypocrites.. you know the ones just go through the motions but don’t understand the meaning of Jesus.. because Jesus never taught About “freedoms” or “superiority” .. Jesus mostly taught Us to be meek, subservient and considerate To each other but that means nothing to the televangelists we paid.. I mean follow !


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## Joom (Nov 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> https://rottenwebsites.miraheze.org/wiki/VICE


This is like sourcing Encyclopedia Dramatica, but shittier.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Project Veritas has done some SJW stuff for the Right's cause, and isn't completely useless on a humanitarian level.  They are still sensationalists, but a little more exposé and less "propagandic" than CNN.  It's funny how fact checkers will rip on Veritas and not touch CNN.  Of course, the mainstream fact checkers were established by democrats in attempt to maintain control over the election influencing news media.  It seems kind of silly to refer to them as an authority simply based on name "fact checker".  I'm a fact checker too, and while you may not be intentionally blind, you are perpetuating self-serving BS that was manufactured to deter understanding and further split society into two factions.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A mixed bag of evidence that hasn't been fully processed, or possibly yet submitted. It is not a "zero evidence" confidence game.


Lousy argument.

Evidence thats not looked into or not submitted - is no evidence. Either you have something or you have not.

And much more importantly. If you are trolling along the 'evidence' lines that got you 6 confirmed cases of voterfraud in past elections (some of them republican, as some people that changed their place of living voted twice!), and you lost by several hundreds of thousands of votes, in four states -- chances are that you are just doing it for show.

You depend on voters that can not tell if an accusation _can_ be proven, or if fraud along those lines would be 'structural' (statistically relevant), or could even theoretically be coordinated.

You only care about having your names next to 'investigation' in the paper for a while longer. For people without any education to feel better. This response is rigged.

Makes no sense. Only chance of success is to delay declaring a winner for so long, that states declare who their electoral votes go to, without consulting any of the voting results. Which is a method, never practiced in US history, and the only time it came close - was solved through a political compromise, that shafted black folks for centuries.


Now you are lying to people - telling them that there is a possibility, that youd find hundred thousands of votes through recounts. You are damaging democracy every day for the next two months, that the GOP keeps this game up to keep voters mobilized for the senate runoffs.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Evidence thats not looked into or not submitted - is no evidence. Either you have something or you have not.



Obviously context matters.  But you are defining context after the fact, which is shifting goal posts.  Evidence is being garnered everyday, and what has been submitted to the courts has seemingly been rejected or rendered unsubstantial thus far.  We aren't privy to all channels of information, so it is logically impossible to rule out the existence of evidence that we don't know about.  (Which is what I felt was imprudent about the "zero evidence" claim--which makes it look more like a red herring)  



notimp said:


> Now you are lying to people - telling them that there is a possibility, that youd find hundred thousands of votes through recounts.



Possibility is as an outlier-which you aren't honoring in the way that you use the word.  Also, I never said the thing that you are accusing me of lying about.  But I will double-down, because I feel generous.  There is a possibility that I will personally find hundreds of thousands of votes.



notimp said:


> You are damaging democracy every day for the next two months, that the GOP keeps this came up to keep voters mobilized for the senate runoffs.



Oh ok.  I'm damaging democracy for using my voice.  My bad.  Maybe I should regurgitate what I've been told instead.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Project Veritas has done some SJW stuff for the Right's cause, and isn't completely useless on a humanitarian level. They are still sensationalists, but a little more exposé and less "propagandic" than CNN. It's funny how fact checkers will rip on Veritas and not touch CNN. Of course, the mainstream fact checkers were established by democrats in attempt to maintain control over the election influencing news media. It seems kind of silly to refer to them as an authority simply based on name "fact checker". I'm a fact checker too, and while you may not be intentionally blind, you are perpetuating self-serving BS that was manufactured to deter understanding and further split society into two factions.


Project Veritas isn't a news source. It's an activist group mostly ran by a single guy who basically tries to bait people into looking like idiots by setting up fake morton forks, in the hopes that no matter what choice the person makes, they will look like an idiot, a criminal or both.

That also goes combined with the fact that they aren't above just clipping their footage in such a way that even if the mortons fork was broken/didn't work as intended that it looks like they were idiots anyway.

That's why they get torned to shreds; they're blatantly dishonest fake news spreaders with a specific goal of smearing their political opponents.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Obviously context matters. But you are defining context after the fact, which is shifting goal posts. Evidence is being garnered everyday, and what has been submitted to the courts has seemingly been rejected or rendered unsubstantial thus far. We aren't privy to all channels of information, so it is logically impossible to rule out the existence of evidence that we don't know about. (Which is what I felt was imprudent about the "zero evidence" claim--which makes it look more like a red herring)


Agree, which is why my argument was - does the potential 'impact' (what you'd get out of it) rectify the means?

And the answer likely is no. Just because a court cant dismiss a case outright (because it hasnt looked at the evidence yet, to rule out all fraud), can you rule out structural fraud at a scale that would be relevant to shift the results here. Or at least can you rule out structural fraud on a relevant scale, that can be proven - in those instances you brought forward?

And the answer to both of those seems to be - yes.

So sure, you can go through every level of judiciary, all the while looking for more 'individual confirmations'. Making up scenarios where sharpied in votes dont count, just for publicity - but should you?

(When you need about several thousands of votes in four states each.)

GOP answer should be 'no way in hell' two months from now. Until then they are seemingly featuring all of this, to keep voter activation up for the senate race.



tabzer said:


> Oh ok.  I'm damaging democracy for using my voice.  My bad.  Maybe I should regurgitate what I've been told instead.


No, not you with your voice, the GOP with their actions. Humoring a guy that lawyered up and refused to state if he will concede, if he loses.


----------



## RichardTheKing (Nov 13, 2020)

On a different topic than voter fraud...has anyone noticed how various organisations _demanded_ that the Vice President be a woman, and that Biden submitted to their disgusting demands?
And that, during the debate, (33:15 to 34:00 in the video), Kamala Harris smugly rubbed into the faces of everyone watching that she indeed felt that merely being female should seriously be considered one of her qualifications for being selected for higher office. Then, after the election, she gave a Vice Presidential acceptance speech in which she gushed continuously about women and thanked Joe Biden for choosing her on the basis of her gender (2:06 to 2:30).

I refuse to see this Vice Presidency as valid, since a significant proportion of candidates were very quickly written off solely due to their being male. How utterly revolting and corrupt - if it was _women_ being written off solely due to their gender, then there would be a massive political shitstorm.
Fucking double standards invading and perverting the very top of politics.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Agree, which is why my argument was - does the potential 'impact' (what you'd get out of it) rectify the means?



I honestly feel like a lot of people suffered unnecessary emotional damage with the last election, and a lot of it due to the media's misleading coverage leading up to the election (and maybe after?).  In the face of uncertainty, I feel that hedging expectations is worth doing to avoid the risk of being completely emotionally shocked by a turnaround in events.  The burden of practicing patience not only far outweighs the burden of being completely blind-sighted, but it's a good practice in developing a a life-benefitting virtue.  In my experience, everything relating to Trump is surprising and dumbfounding.  It's almost as if it is his skill.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I honestly feel like a lot of people suffered unnecessary emotional damage with the last election, and a lot of it due to the media's misleading coverage leading up to the election (and maybe after?).  In the face of uncertainty, I feel that hedging expectations is worth doing to avoid the risk of being completely emotionally shocked by a turnaround in events.  The burden of practicing patience not only far outweighs the burden of being completely blind-sighted, but it's a good practice in developing a a life-benefitting virtue.  In my experience, everything relating to Trump is surprising and dumbfounding.  It's almost as if it is his skill.


Yeah, none of the 'informed' reporting is even seeing that as a snowballs chance in hell. None of the international reporting either. None of the democratic 'procedure' (where other heads of states gratulate your winner to signal legitimacy, and the process working), and therefore the diplomatic corps.

The only international heads of state that havent congratulated Biden by now are:
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54871890

Literally no one informed believes that the tactics of - here is the voter fraud call in line, if you've seen anything, please tell one of our agents, should be the course of action for the two, three months past a democratic election, where no case of mass fraud was reported so far.

Also no one of those people/pundits/sources, believes, that 'who will be the US president' will be overturned.

Not because they cant imagine themselves emotionally hurt and tactically destroyed - but simply because if you look at procedural logic, its very, very, very unlikely.

Not completely, because you have the chance to delay the declaring of the results for so long, that states can declare electoral candidates, without looking at the presidential vote results. (Just to 'save' democracy.) Again, a measure thats never been enacted in US history.


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## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Yeah, none of the 'informed' reporting is even seeing that as a snowballs chance in hell.



Well, they've all said that before.  Consider that information is valuable.  So why do you think you going to get it for free?  It's a race for clicks these days and most of what you call "news" is just "entertainment".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Do you think your education is more important to them than their demonstrated capacity to change politics?  I think that's naive.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Well, they've all said that before. Consider that information is valuable. So why do you think you going to get it for free? It's a race for clicks these days and most of what you call "news" is just "entertainment".


Because I know how to vet news sources? 

Because I can read partly state financed news sources from other countries, and know that they still do at least some investigative reporting?

Because the main issue here is not 'failure of reporting' but 'a lack of validity of claims' (what you claim is the problem doesnt produce enough vote flips to even come close to mattering - the personal 'fraud hotline' stuff).

Because I can read diplomatic reactions, and roughly know what they mean?

Because I dont see it as a positive, that no mass media outlet has supported Trumps claims?

Because I can read polls, where 80% of americans have 'accepted' Biden as president, vs 3% that think Trump has won? (5% undecided)

(I never was in the 'fake media cant be trusted' bunch, I always saw that as a public reaction to facebook surfacing more PR (and also more alternative opinions) to people who werent used to it).

Because democrats have lost house seats and the senate majority (likely), which indicates, that republicans have no need to push this further. None of the democratic narratives apart from Covid can be realized without their approval, and dems have lost votes with all demographics but white men?
(Give them four more years, where they cant do anything, and america will gladly vote in a Pence 2024, with a higher majority than that. Ending lame duck status for another four years.)

--

David Frum:
There will be more Gerrymandering in 2021 (Favors republicans.)


----------



## AkiraKurusu (Nov 13, 2020)

RichardTheKing said:


> On a different topic than voter fraud...has anyone noticed how various organisations _demanded_ that the Vice President be a woman, and that Biden submitted to their disgusting demands?
> And that, during the debate, (33:15 to 34:00 in the video), Kamala Harris smugly rubbed into the faces of everyone watching that she indeed felt that merely being female should seriously be considered one of her qualifications for being selected for higher office. Then, after the election, she gave a Vice Presidential acceptance speech in which she gushed continuously about women and thanked Joe Biden for choosing her on the basis of her gender (2:06 to 2:30).
> 
> I refuse to see this Vice Presidency as valid, since a significant proportion of candidates were very quickly written off solely due to their being male. How utterly revolting and corrupt - if it was _women_ being written off solely due to their gender, then there would be a massive political shitstorm.
> Fucking double standards invading and perverting the very top of politics.


That...that's just sickening. For fuck's sake, I can see those bigots celebrating "female empowerment" should this Harris bitch take over the Presidency, if the ageing Biden becomes no longer able to handle the office, despite only managing to force Harris into the role by making sexist demands. 

Truly horrific. She didn't make it through her own merits; she shouldn't be celebrated or rewarded. The bigotry shouldn't be celebrated or rewarded. The Vice President office should be given to the most qualified candidate, REGARDLESS of their sex or skin colour.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

Or... maybe Harris was chosen because she appeals to more bases in the Democratic party.

She appeals to progressives (to some extent, you always have those who whine about her being a prosecutor), the minority groups (Biden mostly had to rely on Obama fumes during the primary, Harris helped solidify it) and she also was generally not that incompetent of a candidate.

If I look at the other candidates in the primary season, there's few who could even compare (honestly only Warren, and she wouldn't have been a desirable pick since she isn't in a safe state and her seat could end up getting swapped with a Republican seat. Pete could also have been a choice, but it's a flipflop between him and Harris and I'd say Harris appeals to the progressives more) and Senate picks are a bit of a joke.

Like, if you wanted a minority pandering veep candidate, it would have been Stacey Abrams. That's not to rig on her, her work to get Georgia to become a swing state is really impressive, but she would have fit these boxes you're all whining so much about much better, given her significant lack of political experience and not even being able to win her own senate race.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Because I know how to vet news sources?



Do you?  I have my doubts.  I'm not even that confident myself.  You don't acknowledge the points that I brought up and you dismiss them all-at-once as a facebook thing.  "Don't trust your TV"  was an adage way before the internet.  I'm afraid we aren't going to have a common ground.  The shift from reporting to entertainment isn't controversial to point out.  It's the implication that should be--but it wouldn't be in their interest to report on that.  So that's taboo because the tokened "fake news" has become cliché?




Ev1l0rd said:


> Like, if you wanted a minority pandering veep candidate, it would have been Stacey Abrams.



Stacey Abrams lacks the name recognition.  It would have deterred more voters, even if she was a *more ethical choice.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Project Veritas isn't a news source. It's an activist group mostly ran by a single guy who basically tries to bait people into looking like idiots by setting up fake morton forks, in the hopes that no matter what choice the person makes, they will look like an idiot, a criminal or both.



I was being somewhat facetious to demonstrate the fallacy of subscribing to fact checkers.  Morton's forks have already been demonstrated as being ok in this thread, so I wouldn't consider that the crux of the issue.  I still think that in the timeframe that they have existed, that they've done better for the world than CNN.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I was being somewhat facetious to demonstrate the fallacy of subscribing to fact checkers.  Morton's forks have already been demonstrated as being ok in this thread, so I wouldn't consider that the crux of the issue.  I still think that in the timeframe that they have existed, that they've done better for the world than CNN.


Funny how you leave out the part where I point out that they're literally fake news spreaders when people realize that they're getting forked.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Funny how you leave out the part where I point out that they're literally fake news spreaders when people realize that they're getting forked.



It's not fake news.  It's "entertainment".


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's not fake news.  It's "entertainment".


Lolno. You can't on one hand claim that they do a lot of good for the world and that all their bad stuff is just for shits and giggles. That's not how this works.

This reminds me of the "I was just pretending to be retarded" meme.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

I was comparing them to CNN in respect to fact checkers.  In order for me to be considerate of your opinion, I must understand whether or not you consider CNN to be above those kinds of tactics.

I never said they did a lot of good for the world.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Do you? I have my doubts. I'm not even that confident myself. You don't acknowledge the points that I brought up and you dismiss them all-at-once as a facebook thing.


Listen, I just yesterday listend to a german TV talk broadcast with the head of the former major news weekly of germany following just a transatlantic babble line, two political scientists afraid to say too much (new to the format), a heartwarming charismatic politician that broke everything down to childrens level logic and also listed off tranatlantic talking points, and a satellite link to a young nerdy looking republican (originally from austria), who while never straying to much from the republican line and mostly sticking to diplomatic niceties, blew up the entire format - by literally saying, that europe's talk circuit doesnt understand, because they also look at this through a left wing 'cultural elites' lens and spectrum. And he was right. And most of the talk guests, acknowledged it, or at least were somewhat impressed that he dared to say that.

So lets just say - I cant help but to see those nuances. Pretty much always.

Sure - sometimes I also dont know how to rank one particular source, or one particular source over time. But it has never been my problem, that I was anxious, that I couldnt trust any mainstream media outlet to report somewhat freely, within the constraints of their own ideological, or financial constraints. Which is why you read/watch many different sources at first and always look up stuff you dont understand from more than one political angle.

And no - I'm also not perfect.

But - one of the first aspects you learn in any science is to check the validity, the procedural integrity and the reliability of a claim or a hypothesis.

And if your hypothesis is "there is structural voting fraud, we just havent found it yet", and "our way to find it is a call-in-hotline", and then we'll follow mostly individual claims - this does not make several hundreds of thousands of votes 'switch over', or disappear. In several states.

Neither does recounting them.

This isnt a media trust issue. This is a - 'this cant possibly be a sollution for your problem' issue.


Also no - this one is not facebooks fault, this one is the fault of those who craft the narrative, that this election was stolen, and 'retribution' was still a possibility.


----------



## Lumstar (Nov 13, 2020)

Fake votes are an unavoidable part of life. But forget party lines for a moment please. The slim odds of the conspiracy theory succeeding are certifiably insane. What kind of kangaroo court would overturn enough votes to change the election's final outcome? Rhetorically.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Matt Taibbi The democratss have become, essentially, an upperclass cosmopolitan party:

I'd consider the interviewer, boarderline idelogically extreme, but I still want to hear Matt Taibbis thoughts - in this case f.e.. Also I acknowledge, that this interview is made in a self referential podcast sector, where sharing viewers/listeners in ideological networks is the game to play.

Id could list this below all the news sources I post, but at some point, this becomes old.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Listen, I just yesterday listend to a german TV talk broadcast with the head of the former major news weekly of germany following just a transatlantic babble line, two political scientists afraid to say too much (new to the format), a heartwarming charismatic politician that broke everything down to childrens level logic and also listed off tranatlantic talking points, and a satellite link to a young nerdy looking republican (originally from austria), who while never straying to much from the republican line and mostly sticking to diplomatic niceties, blew up the entire format - by literally saying, that europe's talk circuit doesnt understand, because they also look at this through a left wing 'cultural elites' lens and spectrum. And he was right. And most of the talk guests, acknowledged it, or at least were somewhat impressed that he dared to say that.
> 
> So lets just say - I cant help but to see those nuances. Pretty much always.
> 
> ...



So are you saying that it is my hypothesis that there is structural voting fraud, we just haven't found it yet, and our way to find it is a call-in-hotline?  Because that's a very convoluted and distracting way of misrepresenting the claim I have made about the matter.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So are you saying that it is my hypothesis that there is structural voting fraud, we just haven't found it yet, and our way to find it is a call-in-hotline?  Because that's a very convoluted and distracting way of misrepresenting the claim I have made about the matter.


in a way yes. If you have indications for structural voter fraud, that are more than just people in cars staking out voting places and filming every donut box sized suitcase that was wheeled in there - get some media outlet to publicize it.

Dont hide behind 'because you are not paying for a better media source' (What? AP newswire?  ), you cant possibly know whats going on.

Show and dont tell.

Because in terms of 'tell' we are hearing through the rumors grapevine, that not even Trump believes anymore, that this election will be overturned, because he is already talking about plans of running in 2024. And most of the current mobilizing is used for publicity (senate election runoffs) and to finance "PAC to save america", which no one knows what they are doing. But probably paying back election debt for Trump.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 13, 2020)

can't believe you muricans do you seriously think biden pulled a sideshow bob election stunt?!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

We are not at all on the same page then.  I don't even know where to engage in a conversation with you.  I do not believe that I am doing what you are claiming, and what concerns me most is how convoluted and distracting your synopsis of my position is.  I'm not about to argue for it or against it, because I am not committed to validating or invalidating any hypotheses you have on the matter.  I do not believe that we will be able to reach a conclusive determination on the matter, and my claim is that that's okay.  Some people are very uncomfortable in not knowing what's going to happen next.  I am not so much like that.



notimp said:


> Because in terms of 'tell' we are hearing through the rumors grapevine, that not even Trump believes anymore, that this election will be overturned, because he is already talking about plans of running in 2024. And most of the current mobilizing is used for publicity (senate election runoffs) and to finance "PAC to save america", which no one knows what they are doing. But probably paying back election debt for Trump.



Do as you preach, but not as you do.  Come on...


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 13, 2020)

Despite Arizona being called early, there was still some doubt. Seems to be completely official now.


----------



## Lumstar (Nov 13, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> can't believe you muricans do you seriously think biden pulled a sideshow bob election stunt?!



It isn't a joke. They really think that, IRL.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Well.  The Simpsons predicted a President Trump to begin with.  We are beyond satire.  Just look at Stephen Colbert.  He's not allowed to be himself anymore because Viacom owns his personality.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Well.  The Simpsons predicted a President Trump to begin with.  We are beyond satire.  Just look at Stephen Colbert.  He's not allowed to be himself anymore because Viacom owns his personality.


your right! and then predicted he would leave office in disgrace... with a Woman President....  wow Simpsons was soo close VP not P!!!


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Predicting something thats a little bit out there, isnt a feat that should be celebrated. Making wild guesses comes with no penalty.  Thumbs up for the viacom owning Colberts personality part.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Well. The Simpsons predicted a President Trump to begin with. We are beyond satire. Just look at Stephen Colbert. He's not allowed to be himself anymore because Viacom owns his personality.


I mean, Colbert (that other one) does still exist. He's brought him back for a bit or two. The (that other one) part is a satire in and of itself of viacoms ownership of the character.

That said, he's chosen to move on from that personality largely I think.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> I mean, Colbert (that other one) does still exist. He's brought him back for a bit or two. The (that other one) part is a satire in and of itself of viacoms ownership of the character.
> 
> That said, he's chosen to move on from that personality largely I think.



You are speaking like it was an unnatural fit/forced character and that it no longer suited him.  He's been able to try on his old personality with Viacom's permission, and of course it's not the same for him anymore.  It's a horrific fate.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are speaking like it was an unnatural fit/forced character and that it no longer suited him. He's been able to try on his old personality with Viacom's permission, and of course it's not the same for him anymore. It's a horrific fate.


From what I know, he's specifically said that he wanted to move on from that personality. I think at first it was motivated just by the same reason that anyone wants a change of pace from time to time, and later by the fact that the show the character was based on (the Colbert Report is a satire of the O'Reilly Report) was cancelled by FOX.

Viacom never gave him permission, they actually send their lawyers to complain about him bringing back the character _specificially_ on the Late Show. The Colbert (the other one) is a parody of that while also skirting just enough in originality (iirc the difference between the two is literally that "the other one" wears a pin) that it prevents Viacom from sending their lawyers again.

That said, CBS and Viacom have since undergone a merger, so that entire debacle is now completely moot.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 13, 2020)

Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 3, 2016

Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 17, 2016

In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2016

A pattern emerges.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> From what I know, he's specifically said that he wanted to move on from that personality. I think at first it was motivated just by the same reason that anyone wants a change of pace from time to time, and later by the fact that the show the character was based on (the Colbert Report is a satire of the O'Reilly Report) was cancelled by FOX.
> 
> Viacom never gave him permission, they actually send their lawyers to complain about him bringing back the character _specificially_ on the Late Show. The Colbert (the other one) is a parody of that while also skirting just enough in originality (iirc the difference between the two is literally that "the other one" wears a pin) that it prevents Viacom from sending their lawyers again.
> 
> That said, CBS and Viacom have since undergone a merger, so that entire debacle is now completely moot.



You are right about the Viacom interference bit when he tried bringing it back into play.  But I think he made the statement of wanting to move on after the initial revelation was made clear that he wasn't entitled to the personality, and that was the only response he could give.  He had to reinvent his personality without the fun parts.  I believe even after the merger Viacom would still need to okay his use of the character as the merger doesn't just give him license.  I would think that such an arrangement to have to ask for permission to be yourself is degrading in nature, and is just easier to be bitter about it and to channel that edge towards furthering his career.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He had to reinvent his personality without the fun parts.


It's literally the same personality though. Again, the sole difference is a pin to skirt the lawyers.

The reason it probably doesn't feel like the same personality is because Colbert's character has started to approach reality rather starkishly in the past several years, which makes it less funny. Like, Colberts over-the-top insane jokes from the Colbert Report were funny because they were the stupid shit from the O'Reilly Report cranked up to 500. The problem is, "cranking the stupid shit of the O'Reilly Report to 500" is Tucker Carlsons daily shtick now, which doesn't make the character a satire anymore.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> It's literally the same personality though. Again, the sole difference is a pin to skirt the lawyers.



I was referring to the initial departure.  Him bringing it back afterwards should reflect the affinity that he had for it.  I don't think it's related to Tucker Carlson. It seems like that he agreed with the contracts because they were "formalities" and that it wasn't  fathomable that Viacom would restrict him by it.  It's just weird how IP and copyright has gotten to the point where it can restrict someone's character.  Even if he has to wear a pin, the awareness of the predicament wouldn't allow for natural creative expression.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> It's literally the same personality though. Again, the sole difference is a pin to skirt the lawyers.
> 
> The reason it probably doesn't feel like the same personality is because Colbert's character has started to approach reality rather starkishly in the past several years, which makes it less funny. Like, Colberts over-the-top insane jokes from the Colbert Report were funny because they were the stupid shit from the O'Reilly Report cranked up to 500. The problem is, "cranking the stupid shit of the O'Reilly Report to 500" is Tucker Carlsons daily shtick now, which doesn't make the character a satire anymore.


Colbert has caved in towards popularity. Not only popularity, but highschool level glee over popularity. His interviews are hollywood stars egging him on to be oh so interested and flattered by his little personality quirks, of feeling inadequate, and him lapping that up like sweet milk.

His Trump impression is top notch, his writing room is good enough, but pushed to verge more and more on the silly, and never be provocative at all. He adores young writers who write skits about the profane. Which he often features.

He has even institutionalized the 'dance monkey, dance' routine - where he does just that. Dances, when ever he cant handle the pressure of staying serious after a biting commentary.

The 'pandering to black people' skits in the past two weeks were grotesque. So is the usual NBC token black musician, that has to be dumb and less attractive than the host, and thats all - just to fill in the stereotype. Oh sorry, was that CBS hes supposed to be on?

He even was so insecure, that he tried to bring back public drinking for a while and awkwardly drank with his guests, which was always such a boon, when a new hollywood starlet felt peerpreassured into finding that funny. On air.

What he will become after Trump, is anyones guess - but again, Fallon likes childhood games, Corden loves Karaoke, Kimmel has become the 'edgy one' (oh for gods sake..), the whole genre is verging on becoming a thing of the past. At least in any sensibilities, that are not pandering to the heads of the network.

Its time Stewart comes back.

*couchcriticmodeoff*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 13, 2020)

Stewart would be a relief now that I think about it.

The Kimmel bit made me laugh.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 13, 2020)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/business/porter-wright-trump-pennsylvania.html

Since some people like to use NYT for their sources *cough* trump supporters *cough* I wonder how they will take this news.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/business/porter-wright-trump-pennsylvania.html
> 
> Since some people like to use NYT for their sources *cough* trump supporters *cough* I wonder how they will take this news.


You're mixing up the New York Post with the New York Times. NYT is generally against Trump. The NYP is a Republican rag with about the same quality as toilet paper.

Anyway, reading the article, it seems like their lawyers weren't down with going on a case that is basically designed to undermine an election, so internal pressure from the company caused them to drop out. Interesting situation, and I totally get why.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 13, 2020)




----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 13, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/694890328273346560
> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/787995025527410688
> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664
> A pattern emerges.


Meltdown in 3, 2, 1...

He is slowly realizing his support dwindles. But unfortunately his tactics to do as much reputation damage to the democrats worked out. It's unlikely most of his voters will vote for the democrats in the next few elections because they believe it was rigged


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 13, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


>



Bordering on nightmare fuel. Reminds me of the clay wrestling show.



ghjfdtg said:


> Meltdown in 3, 2, 1...
> 
> He is slowly realizing his support dwindles. But unfortunately his tactics to do as much reputation damage to the democrats worked out. It's unlikely most of his voters will vote for the democrats in the next few elections because they believe it was rigged


I mean, it is a good chance that his voters wouldn't vote at all.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 13, 2020)

Reposting this.
Mayor De Blasio’s daughter slipped up and said Biden was able to STEAL the election..Does she have some inside information?🤔 pic.twitter.com/z1n6uXX8Sm— Tariq Nasheed 🇺🇸 (@tariqnasheed) November 11, 2020


----------



## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Reposting this.
> https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1326564689833234432


"Reposting this"
Yes. Some people say Me and @UltraSUPRA are the worst kind of hypocrites.. Christain hypocrites.. you know the ones just go through the motions but don’t understand the meaning of Jesus.. because Jesus never taught About “freedoms” or “superiority” .. Jesus mostly taught Us to be meek, subservient and considerate To each other but that means nothing to the televangelists we paid.. I mean follow !


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 13, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> You're mixing up the New York Post with the New York Times. NYT is generally against Trump. The NYP is a Republican rag with about the same quality as toilet paper.
> 
> Anyway, reading the article, it seems like their lawyers weren't down with going on a case that is basically designed to undermine an election, so internal pressure from the company caused them to drop out. Interesting situation, and I totally get why.


Ah well then my bad, still, doesn't look good for trump either way. 

Too many of these publications sound the same.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Reposting this.
> https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1326564689833234432


So first Republicans were using a convicted pedophile as a star witness to voter fraud now they are using a guy who said it was OK for men to rape woman and is part of the dangerous group Foundational Black American who bully black women who have white partners and advocate violence against white and half cast people.

Can you please find people who are not dangerous criminals for your conspiracy theory's and insane posts please


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Ah well then my bad, still, doesn't look good for trump either way.
> 
> Too many of these publications sound the same.


https://pagesix.com/2020/11/13/family-ties-star-meredith-baxter-hated-her-enormous-breasts/

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post#Page_Six see also:

"Headless body in topless bar" redirects here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post#Style )

vs.

https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...usiness/porter-wright-trump-pennsylvania.html

Dont want to add insult to injury, but its better not to confuse the two.  Public perception, you know.. 

Its fine if you really dont know them.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> https://pagesix.com/2020/11/13/family-ties-star-meredith-baxter-hated-her-enormous-breasts/
> 
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post#Page_Six see also:
> 
> ...


I am trying to be honest about everything I post, I genuinely didn't know the difference between the two, but I admit my mistake there and apologize if I brought about any confusion. 

I generally don't pay attention to most media a good chunk of the time, and for the most part I have been having to go on the fly to see what is or isn't unbiased in this topic as it goes.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Please, its fine, I feel bad that you felt the need to explain yourself. 

Its just, that one is a yellow press paper, founded by 'the inventor' of the yellow press himself (Murdoch). Famous for 'the worst (but entising) headline in tabloid journalism'.

And the other one is the most established newspaper in terms of influence and renown there is. (It still has an editorial bias, actually its famous for having one - (see Chomsky) ) Literally having pushed the law firm Trump used on one of the election fraud lawsuits to resign, simply by publishing an article. 

I kind of dindt want you to make that mistake in an environment, where it would matter. I here, who cares. 


edit: Oh, and by the way. A tabloid/yellow press paper can break an important story as well. There is no discrimination there. Doesnt say anything about 'trustworthyness' on important articles. Its mostly just who they are addressing as customers, and what they usually are earning money with. 

So bad name for being sensationalistic, doesnt mean - entirely untrustworthy.


----------



## Joom (Nov 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/business/porter-wright-trump-pennsylvania.html
> 
> Since some people like to use NYT for their sources *cough* trump supporters *cough* I wonder how they will take this news.





> “Cancel Culture has finally reached the courtroom,” said Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign’s communications director. “Leftist mobs descended upon some of the lawyers representing the president’s campaign and they buckled.”


...wut. I seriously can't wait for these people to no longer be able to speak publicly for the president.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 13, 2020)

*Officials condemn Trump’s false claims and say election ‘most secure in US history’*

State and federal officials confirm no evidence of voter fraud
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...-most-secure-history-voter-fraud-false-claims


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## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

apparently you can even get your best friend to lie for you in court anymore ..what happen to loyalty
*"Arizona Election Witness Confesses to Being Trump Campaign Lawyer's Business Partner in Court"*


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Ben Davis:

Biden coalition whiter and wealthier than ever, and will not last:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/joe-biden-voters-republicans-trump


----------



## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Ben Davis:
> 
> Biden coalition whiter and wealthier than ever, and will not last:
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/joe-biden-voters-republicans-trump


lol because we like to link ridiculous Speculation commentaries instead of real news
"Aliens are Real and Martians will take over the Earth by 2040 "


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol because we like to link ridiculous Speculation commentaries instead of real news
> "Aliens are Real and Martians will take over the Earth by 2040 "



The significant part here is, that this is an opinion piece, in the The Guardian newspaper, by a prominent member of the Sanders campaign.

Meaning, the internal struggles within the democratic party currently are probably pretty hefty.

Its not so much about the predictions made, but who said it, and in what paper. 

see also: https://berniesanders.com/get-involved/democratic-socialists-america/ (Organisation the author is currently working for.)


----------



## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> The significant part here is, that this is an opinion piece, in the The Guardian newspaper, by a prominent member of the Sanders campaign.
> 
> Meaning, the internal struggles within the democratic party currently are probably pretty hefty.
> 
> ...


oh if that was true then "I just talked to the President-elect of the United States, Joe Biden. I extended my warm congratulations and thanked him for the patriotic message he delivered last night - 
*President George W. Bush*
...would look bad


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh if that was true then "I just talked to the President-elect of the United States, Joe Biden. I extended my warm congratulations and thanked him for the patriotic message he delivered last night -
> *President George W. Bush*
> ...would look bad


Its more about that the official code of conduct (dont talk bad about your allies) has been broken here, and in quite a prominent public publication. 

But you can compare that to alien videos, I guess.


----------



## Joom (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> Ben Davis:
> 
> Biden coalition whiter and wealthier than ever, and will not last:
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/joe-biden-voters-republicans-trump


This is sort of preaching to the choir. If you look at the polls, more people voted against Trump than they voted for Biden. However, if the Democrats want to keep these voters, they just need to continue propping up right leaning moderates like Biden. They'd end up scaring most of them away with another Bernie, or someone else who supports socialist policy, and the Republicans are going to have to dial back the far-right rhetoric since that's what made these people flip. Turns out, most people in the US are centrist, and only lean a smidge one way or the other. At any rate, this guy is being rather presumptuous since Biden hasn't even taken office, or begun to enact policy yet.


notimp said:


> a prominent member of the Sanders campaign


These Bernie or Busters are just doomers (hence this article) that don't understand the importance of building socialist infrastructure within a bourgeois democracy. Y'know, the entire point behind Bernie. You'll also hear them say Biden is no different than Trump, but we can all see how demonstrably false that is.


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Joom said:


> These Bernie or Busters are just doomers (hence this article) that don't understand the importance of building socialist infrastructure within a bourgeois democracy.


But then he was one of their data analysts... 

We'll see if the GOPs actions currently are just 'driving their value up for a bipartisan government with Biden democrats', something tells me, they are not..  And where no success...


----------



## djpannda (Nov 13, 2020)

ok


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

He might have a point also, is what I'm saying.


----------



## Joom (Nov 13, 2020)

notimp said:


> But then he was one of their data analysts...
> 
> We'll see if the GOPs actions currently are just 'driving their value up for a bypartisan gouvernment with Joe Biden', something tells me, they are not..  And where no success...


You're not wrong, but you have to take into consideration what I said about what made these voters flip. They may continue to vote Republican on the down ballot, but if the party just keeps throwing Donalds at them, they'll never win the presidency without some kind of major fuckery (which I know is plausible).


----------



## notimp (Nov 13, 2020)

Joom said:


> You're not wrong, but you have to take into consideration what I said about what made these voters flip. They may continue to vote Republican on the down ballot, but if the party just keeps throwing Donalds at them, they'll never win the presidency without some kind of major fuckery (which I know is plausible).


Yes, somehow I dont believe, that the GOP sees their perspective in becoming a pro labour party either. Marco Rubio apparently is touted as a 'Trump light'.

This time you had a pandemic and a president that for no reason whatsoever chose to not act at all. Thats quite rare..  And sure to have flipped some votes.

Currently even the FED is worried about the Covid progression in the US. From a long term impact position.

edit:


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 13, 2020)

Apparently Georgia has also officially flipped to Biden. That's 306 electoral votes.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> So first Republicans were using a convicted pedophile as a star witness to voter fraud now they are using a guy who said it was OK for men to rape woman and is part of the dangerous group Foundational Black American who bully black women who have white partners and advocate violence against white and half cast people.
> 
> Can you please find people who are not dangerous criminals for your conspiracy theory's and insane posts please



It's easy enough to accept the blunder on that video without sounding crazy or hostile yourself.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 14, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Apparently Georgia has also officially flipped to Biden. That's 306 electoral votes.



Possible votes. It's not until the actual electoral college votes that we get the official results. Biden is projected to be the winner, but that's not the same thing as actually being the winner. I know the media called the winner already, but the media doesn't decide elections.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



			
				AmandaRose said:
			
		

> o first Republicans were using a convicted pedophile as a star witness to voter fraud now they are using a guy who said it was OK for men to rape woman and is part of the dangerous group Foundational Black American who bully black women who have white partners and advocate violence against white and half cast people.
> 
> Can you please find people who are not dangerous criminals for your conspiracy theory's and insane posts please



Yet the BLM riots started after a male drug addicted women abuser career criminal tried to pass off fake money, resisted arrest and died from a drug overdose. We all know what happened next ...

EDIT: Biden is also on video fondling young girls breasts. It doesn't get much more perverted and sickening than that.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> EDIT: Biden is also on video fondling young girls breasts. It doesn't get much more perverted and sickening than that.


Yes cause it wasn't perverted when Giuliani tried to fuck a 15 year old girl was it?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Giuliani tried to fuck a 15 year old girl was it?



@AmandaRose the actress that played Borat's daughter was 24 years old.  It's disgusting role play on behalf of all of them. It's a mistake to try to make Biden's actions look more acceptable by pointing out the existence of other disgusting things--even if you clearly don't understand what you are talking about anyway.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

[QUOTE="tabzer said:


> @AmandaRose the actress that played Borat's daughter was 24 years old.  It's disgusting role play on behalf of all of them. It's a mistake to try to make Biden's actions look more acceptable by pointing out the existence of other disgusting things--even if you clearly don't understand what you are talking about anyway.


The actress was playing a 15 year old girl and was presented to a Giuliani as being 15 she also looked round about that age. Should a 76 year old man be suggesting to a young girl to get in a bed with him and should he then be putting his hands down his pants? Is that acceptable in your eyes.

Trumps lawyer is a pervert
Trumps star witness to voter fraud is a convicted pedophile.
Trump himself says its ok to go and grab women by the pussy.

Is all that acceptable behaviour??

Also yall keep saying Biden has dementia. People with dementia do things they wouldn't normally do. I should know as my mum has dementia. So Biden accidentally fondling that girls breasts could have been because of his dementia he has. What's the excuses for Trump/Giuliani and the Pedo witness.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The actress was playing a 15 year old girl and was presented to a Giuliani as being 15 she also looked round about that age. Should a 76 year old man be suggesting to a young girl to get in a bed with him and should he then be putting his hands down his pants? Is that acceptable in your eyes.
> 
> Trumps lawyer is a pervert
> Trumps star witness to voter fraud is a convicted pedophile.
> ...



Yeah but he didn't do that though did he, she grabbed touched his leg and suggested to carry on in the bedroom, it would take two minutes for anybody else to fact check this. Also you know for a fact she unpulled his shirt from his trousers, he could've easily been tucking it back in.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 14, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Yeah but he didn't do that though did he, she grabbed touched his leg and suggested to carry on in the bedroom, it would take two minutes for anybody else to fact check this. Also you know for a fact she unpulled his shirt from his trousers, he could've easily been tucking it back in.








I like this look better.. at he had more dignity  here than in Four seasons landscaping


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The actress was playing a 15 year old girl and was presented to a Giuliani as being 15 she also looked round about that age. Should a 76 year old man be suggesting to a young girl to get in a bed with him and should he then be putting his hands down his pants? Is that acceptable in your eyes.
> 
> Trumps lawyer is a pervert
> Trumps star witness to voter fraud is a convicted pedophile.
> ...



Stop being crazy and comparing roleplay to crimes with real victims.  Targeting people's character because you don't like what they are saying is ad hominem.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Stop being crazy and comparing roleplay to crimes with real victims.  Targeting people's character because you don't like what they are saying is ad hominem.


Again he was told the actress was 15 so is sexual role play with a 15 year old acceptable?


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> died from a drug overdose


Autopsy is public record and says cause of death was asphyxiation, and the drugs in his system had no effect on his death. But I love how racists like you don the medical examiner's cap.



AmandaRose said:


> Again he was told the actress was 15 so is sexual role play with a 15 year old acceptable?


I mean, there are people who sexually roleplay as toddlers, but this isn't the thread to get all Freudian in. If it's two consenting adults, sure, but that wouldn't really apply to this scenario if he was under the impression that she was legitimately a minor. For example, the To Catch a Predator bait actors were adults who were able to roleplay as minors. Doesn't mean the dudes that showed up didn't have the intention to have sex with a child.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Again he was told the actress was 15 so is sexual role play with a 15 year old acceptable?



She's not 15.  It's not role play with 15 year old, even if it was sexual.  I don't find the situation to be acceptable on behalf of anyone involved in that piece.

He probably didn't even believe she was 15 and knew something was weird about the situation that he was in.  That's how it appeared to me.  He still looked pathetic, but not predatory.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He probably didn't even believe she was 15


Do you know how many guys have said "but your honor, she said she was 18!", and that not work for them? 100%, every single guy.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> Do you know how many guys have said "but your honor, she said she was 18!", and that not work for them? 100%, every single guy.



How is this different?

You have to be confused about something.  The reason that "She said she was 18!" doesn't work in court is because it is still statutory rape to have sex with a minor.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How is this different?


It's not. That's my point. Even if Giuliani had the slightest inkling that she was 15, why would he engage? It's exactly the same thing as when a minor claims to be 18, or a rapist claims that the victim said they were. And like my point about To Catch a Predator; the bait actors were adults that were petite and young looking. The men that showed up had every intention to have sex with a child, even if the actor was an adult and they didn't know it.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 14, 2020)

what a fucking time to have an incompetent president. we just had a 12.7% increase in covid cases today from 162k to 183k. fuck.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> It's not. That's my point. Even if Giuliani had the slightest inkling that she was 15, why would he engage? It's exactly the same thing as when a minor claims to be 18, or a rapist claims that the victim said they were. And like my point about To Catch a Predator; the bait actors were adults that were petite and young looking. The men that showed up had every intention to have sex with a child, even if the actor was an adult and they didn't know it.



Forget about to catch a predator for a moment.  It's not the same situation. You are having trouble thinking straight because of words.

Imagine being in this situation.  A 24 year old woman comes up to you and starts trying to seduce you.  She tells you that she is 15 and you immediately know she must be crazy.  You cannot help but to feel sexually attracted to her, despite her obvious lie.  You are an old man and may never see action again, but you feel so awkward about the presentation, and morally conflicted on how to proceed.  "Let's take it slow," you think to yourself.  "It doesn't make sense, but as a good lawyer, I will get to the bottom of this."

It's not the same as "Oh hey, you are 15?  That's great!  I love fucking 15 year olds."

"She said she was 18!" Is very much not the situation here, as you should be able to see.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> She tells you that she is 15 and you immediately know she must be crazy.


How do I immediately know that?


tabzer said:


> You cannot help but to feel sexually attracted to her


No, someone claiming to be 15, whether they are or not, is an instant boner killer for me.


tabzer said:


> despite her obvious lie.


How would I know it's an obvious lie unless she showed me ID? There are some pretty mature looking 15 year old girls out there. If I had nothing else to go on other than her claim, I'm nopeing the fuck out. I don't humor possible jailbait.


tabzer said:


> You are an old man and may never see action again


So get some Cialis and go to a swinger's club or some shit. I don't get this overly creepy fetishization of youth that runs rampant among men. This is in no way an excuse to prey on assumed minors.


tabzer said:


> It's not the same as "Oh hey, you are 15? That's great! I love fucking 15 year olds."


It literally is. That's exactly what went through his head because pedophilia is a power play. He thought his celebrity status was gonna bag him an underage foreign girl. The moment he thought she was underage, he should have walked away. It's pedophilia, regardless of how you try to justify it.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Forget about to catch a predator for a moment.  It's not the same situation. You are having trouble thinking straight because of words.
> 
> Imagine being in this situation.  A 24 year old woman comes up to you and starts trying to seduce you.  She tells you that she is 15 and you immediately know she must be crazy.  You cannot help but to feel sexually attracted to her, despite her obvious lie.  You are an old man and may never see action again, but you feel so awkward about the presentation, and morally conflicted on how to proceed.  "Let's take it slow," you think to yourself.  "It doesn't make sense, but as a good lawyer, I will get to the bottom of this."
> 
> ...


I've seen women that look a lot older than they are and women that look a lot younger than they are, but that holds no bar in this. 

If someone looked 15 said they are 15, I would nope the fuck out of there real fucking fast not invite them up to my room regardless of if they actually were or not. 

Anyone that would do otherwise or defend it has some pretty questionable morals IMO. 

It doesn't matter how old the guy or girl was, if you can't control your urges you're nothing but a predator full stop.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> How do I immediately know that?
> 
> No, someone claiming to be 15, whether they or not, is an instant boner killer for me.
> 
> ...



It's a f*cking story about being inside the mind of Giulini.  Jeez you are thick.  Rudy could be a pedophile.  You are saying that you know he is.  That's an accusation.  Fine.  The "she said she was 18!" as a fruitless defense in the case of statutory rape, which involves a definite sexual act, an actual victim who is actually underage.



SonowRaevius said:


> If someone looked 15 said they are 15, I would nope the fuck out of there real fucking fast not invite them up to my room regardless of if they actually were or not.
> 
> Anyone that would do otherwise or defend it has some pretty questionable morals IMO.



Personally I would never be in that situation, myself.  Guilini is a nutty person, and I don't really know what went on inside his head, and we know that this was edited video to make Guilini to look even worse.  But, like I said, he just looked pathetic.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's a f*cking story about being inside the mind of Giulini.  Jeez you are thick.  Rudy could be a pedophile.  You are saying that you know he is.  That's an accusation.  Fine.  The "she said she was 18!" as a fruitless defense in the case of statutory rape, which involves a definite sexual act, an actual victim who is actually underage.


My point went entirely over your head. It doesn't matter if someone is 24 and claims to be 15, even if it seems apparent to *you* that they're not. You also can't disregard my previous point about bait actors being used to catch pedophiles. It's the exact same scenario. Those guys that were busted never even touched a minor, or did anything physically sexual with one, but they full well meant to because they were under the impression that the bait actor was a minor. In the case of Giuliani, he thought the bait actor WAS A MINOR. I think the thickness you're seeing is your forehead hanging over your brow.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> My point went entirely over your head. It doesn't matter if someone is 24 and claims to be 15, even if it seems apparent to *you* that they're not.



It doesn't magically turn it into statutory rape.



Joom said:


> You also can't disregard my previous point about bait actors being used to catch pedophiles. It's the exact same scenario.



It's not the same exact scenario.



Joom said:


> Those guys that were busted never even touched a minor, or did anything sexual with one, but they full well meant to because they were under the impression that the bait actor was a minor.



My understanding is that most of those people were targeting minors and soliciting them for sex, and in to catch a predator, the adult-child actor plays a minor role as to not taint the results for the case of a strong prosecution.  The Borat movie film production introduced Guilini to a 24 year old woman, and told him that she was 15.  That's putting the cart before the horse when trying to stage "solicitation of a minor".  In one scenario, with to catch a predator, you essentially have the predators signing contracts that they are soliciting sex from a minor before meeting them.  The Giulini situation is a confused mess throughout which likely wouldn't result in such a charge. 

The point is, is the "She said she was 18!" is a null defense in the case of statutory rape, not for solicitation of a minor.  In the case of statutory rape, it doesn't matter what the person thought, as intention is not a factor.  In the case of "solicitation of a minor" intention is what's being tried.  You claim to know what on went inside his head, but that's typical of you.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

omgcat said:


> what a fucking time to have an incompetent president. we just had a 12.7% increase in covid cases today from 162k to 183k. fuck.





omgcat said:


> cases


As in, not deaths.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As in, not deaths.


And? What's your point? Why are you acting like this some gotcha? You can probably safely bet that a sixth of those people will die. That's roughly 30,000 people. Of course, this is also factoring in the assumed increase that will take place over the coming holidays. If we keep increasing at this scale, and COVID keeps mutating the way it does which causes its spreading speed to increase, the death toll is only going to increase exponentially.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> And? What's your point? Why are you acting like this some gotcha? You can probably safely bet that a sixth of those people will die. That's roughly 30,000 people.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233864


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

You're also ignoring the sharp increase in the infection rate over the past week or so. It's getting colder as well, which the virus is going to thrive in. Oh, it's also flu season, which is making matters worse.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

@AmandaRose  needs to handle her own arguments, seeing @Joom is too ADD to follow through.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 14, 2020)

omgcat said:


> what a fucking time to have an incompetent president. we just had a 12.7% increase in covid cases today from 162k to 183k. fuck.


Yeah next couple of months are gonna get real rough again, probably equal the height of the first wave if not get slightly worse.  And Trump will do fuck all about it, he'll just be a pouty little bitch the entire time.  Not that I believe he would've done anything about it had he won either, he would've simply been spending this time celebrating instead.  So eventual relief is better than no relief in sight at least.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm


Where does it mention the survival rate?


Joom said:


> You're also ignoring the sharp increase in the infection rate over the past week or so.


What about the death rate?


Joom said:


> It's getting colder as well, which the virus is going to thrive in.


Remember when we were told that the Coronavirus would die in the summer...and it didn't?


Joom said:


> Oh, it's also flu season, which is making matters worse.


This means more deaths marked as COVID, when they wouldn't have died if it was COVID alone. Yay.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Yeah next couple of months are gonna get real rough again, probably equal the height of the first wave if not get slightly worse.  And Trump will do fuck all about it, he'll just be a pouty little bitch the entire time.  Not that I believe he would've done anything about it had he won either, he would've simply been spending this time celebrating instead.  So eventual relief is better than no relief in sight at least.


Not much he could do, seeing as how the 10th Amendment exists.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

Are you...
Wow okay, that is really sad that you don't understand the 10th amendment.
Tl;Dr since you need me to explain what it actually means
it simply states that if there isn't something explicit power the Federal level is given, then it's the states jobs.
Covid is a pandemic, Presidents have the ability to declare national emergencies/state of emergency, which there they can ask congress to give them certain temporary powers in order to help the people. This is primary done to protect the people. (in other words, if a president needed to temporarily overrule state powers, and congress okayed it. they could, as long as it protects the people, and nothing else)
In other words, stop saying Trump couldn't do anything about it. If he was competent, he would of declared a nation emergency and asked congress to essentially okay those powers until the crisis is over.
I may of oversimplified that specific process (of declaring a state of emergency) if I made any gross oversimplification, I will happily take information in and correct what I said.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Are you...
> Wow okay, that is really sad that you don't understand the 10th amendment.
> Tl;Dr since you need me to explain what it actually means
> it simply states that if there isn't something explicit power the Federal level is given, then it's the states jobs.
> ...


The powers not *delegated to the United States by the Constitution*, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
I'd love to see where in the Constitution that it says the President is able to declare national emergencies or revoke rights in a state of crisis.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Where does it mention the survival rate?


It's to show that 90 percentile ranges for survival aren't meaning much when it's this random and rampant across the board. Your graph is entirely too broad, and doesn't include certain determining factors. For example, did you know your blood type can determine how bad the infection is for you? That graph obviously doesn't factor that in, because it has nothing to do with age.


UltraSUPRA said:


> What about the death rate?


You do realize that you don't drop dead upon diagnosis, right? Takes a couple of weeks for it to drown you in your sleep.


UltraSUPRA said:


> Remember when we were told that the Coronavirus would die in the summer...and it didn't?


Yeah, that was awesome. I really thought I was going to be able to keep my job. Thanks Trump.


UltraSUPRA said:


> This means more deaths marked as COVID, when they wouldn't have died if it was COVID alone. Yay.


I see you ignored the CDC link. They have a section there for those that have died just from COVID, and for those who died from it being combined with other diseases and ailments, including the flu.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
> I'd love to see where in the Constitution that it says the President is able to declare national emergencies or revoke rights in a state of crisis.


National Emergencies Act
in 1976 this was passed it's not an amendment, but if Judaical branch said it's fine. Which it has given that the law still exists. And congress passed it. It's valid.
I don't see why a president couldn't use this act.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

And when I say the judicial branch doesn't have problems with it. By precedent, the national emergencies act grants a fuck ton of powers given how many times it's been used in varying ways, without the supreme court making any significant ruling against it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'd love to see where in the Constitution that it says the President is able to declare national emergencies or revoke rights in a state of crisis.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act


...is expired.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> ...is expired.


"In November 2019, the renewal of the Patriot Act was included in the stop-gap legislation The expired provisions required renewal by March 15, 2020."
In other words, someone could of just... idk. renewed that. Just saying... My point being just because it's expired doesn't make your argument valid.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> ...is expired.


Uh, no? Learn to read. Only a part of it expired, and it'll be renewed.


> After reauthorization bills failed to pass Congress, parts of the Patriot Act expired on June 1, 2015.[9] The USA Freedom Act, which became law on June 2, 2015, reenacted these expired sections through 2019.[10] However, Section 215 of the law was amended to disallow the National Security Agency (NSA) to continue its mass phone data collection program.[10] Instead, phone companies will retain the data and the NSA can obtain information about targeted individuals with a federal search warrant.[10]
> 
> In November 2019, the renewal of the Patriot Act was included in the stop-gap legislation[11] The expired provisions required renewal by March 15, 2020.[12] The Senate passed a 77-day extension in March 2020, but the House of Representatives did not pass the legislation before departing for recess on March 27, 2020.[13][14][15][16]



Oh, and this is awesome, too. Since you so love the 4th, you'll get a kick out of this.


> On May 19, 2020, the Senate voted to give law enforcement agencies (FBI and CIA) the power to look into US citizens' browser history without a warrant.[17][18][19]


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> Uh, no? Learn to read.


no u


> On March 10, 2020, Jerry Nadler proposed a bill to reauthorize the Patriot Act, and it was then approved the majority of US House of Representatives after 152 Democrats joined the GOP in supporting the extension.[14] The surveillance powers of the Patriot Act needed renewal by March 15, 2020,[12] and after it expired, the U.S. Senate approved an amended version of the bill.[13] After President Donald Trump threatened to veto the bill, the House of Representatives issued an indefinite postponement of the vote to pass the Senate version of the bill; as of June 2020, *the Patriot Act remains expired.*[259]


(Yeah, "no u" was probably the worst thing to say in a serious political discussion.)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Joom said:


> Oh, and this is awesome, too. Since you so love the 4th, you'll get a kick out of this.


This is to protect people from terrorists and any sort of online Mafia. But I guess a sickness is more dangerous than organized murderers.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> no u
> 
> (Yeah, "no u" was probably the worst thing to say in a serious political discussion.)


The article should probably be updated then, because the "History" section contradicts this. Either that, or the section you quoted is overly generalizing, because every other source I'm checking only mentions section 215. This only applies to surveillance, and not the whole act, or what it enables the federal government to do when they determine someone to be a terrorist, or what they can do when they deem something a national threat.



UltraSUPRA said:


> This is to protect people from terrorists and any sort of online Mafia. But I guess a sickness is more dangerous than organized murderers.


Do you think actual criminals who are involved in such activity leave a browser history trail? This does absolutely nothing to stop terrorism. Also, weren't you the one preaching about not sacrificing liberty for security? Hypocritical much?


----------



## omgcat (Nov 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yeah next couple of months are gonna get real rough again, probably equal the height of the first wave if not get slightly worse.  And Trump will do fuck all about it, he'll just be a pouty little bitch the entire time.  Not that I believe he would've done anything about it had he won either, he would've simply been spending this time celebrating instead.  So eventual relief is better than no relief in sight at least.



my math is showing a 95% CI of 280k to 530k new cases per day by thanksgiving. gonna be fucking wild. we have 2-3 weeks of growth baked in as usual because of infection latency time, but how long until the governors actually do something? people are so bad at understanding what exponential growth looks like.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Are you...
> Wow okay, that is really sad that you don't understand the 10th amendment.
> Tl;Dr since you need me to explain what it actually means
> it simply states that if there isn't something explicit power the Federal level is given, then it's the states jobs.
> ...



If Trump claims a national emergency all your side will do is attack him for it. He left the power to your State's Governor to sort it out. If you don't like how things are playing out in your State then contact your State's appointed officials. You can try to blame Trump for something he left up to your State, but that just makes you look too naive.

Besides look at the pictures of everyone celebrating for Biden. None of them are social distancing and many aren't wearing masks or wearing them correctly. Doesn't seem like it's such a big deal when it comes to following the rules and all (for the Liberals).


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)




----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233868



The infection rate keeps increasing across the entire globe, but the good thing is that the death rate keeps decreasing. I really hope once there is a vaccine all these policies and new laws are vanquished as we don't need them any longer.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The infection rate keeps increasing across the entire globe, but the good thing is that the death rate keeps decreasing. I really hope once there is a vaccine all these policies and new laws are vanquished as we don't need them any longer.


The United States is 4.22% of the world population, but on November 11 (the latest data as of this post), it was 29.13% of the world's new COVID-19 cases.

Please don't act like the United States hasn't utterly failed on COVID-19.

Edit: On the same day, the United States, with 4.22% of the world's population, was 16.70% of the world's COVID-19 deaths.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The United States is 4.22% of the world population, but on November 11 (the latest data as of this post), it was 29.13% of the world's new COVID-19 cases.
> 
> Please don't act like the United States hasn't utterly failed on COVID-19.
> 
> Edit: On the same day, the United States, with 4.22% of the world's population, was 16.70% of the world's COVID-19 deaths.



While the comment is accurate in itself, I'm confused how it is related to the quote you are responding to.  He previously mentioned that it's not Trump's fault, while seemingly acknowledging that it is a problem in the US.  Is this more of your projection?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> If Trump claims a national emergency* all your side will do is attack him for it. *


 Yeah, that side would attack him for the following
Downplaying the pandemic
Knowing that they are downplaying a pandemic
Not doing anything about a pandemic
Shutting up the doctors who know what they are doing
then yeah they would be pretty pissed. (cough cough, he did all the above)
If however he actually competently handled it, if he actually did SOMETHING like get a uniformed shutdown, or at least a uniformed mask mandate. That side wouldn't be nearly as pissed. They may hate trump, but if he at least HANDLED that, and did it semi competently. I'm pretty sure that would of got some more people to vote for him.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> While the comment is accurate in itself, I'm confused how it is related to the quote you are responding to. * He previously mentioned that it's not Trump's fault, while seemingly acknowledging that it is a problem in the US.*  Is this more of your projection?


_sigh_
Yes, it is Trumps fault. Let's stop pretending that it is. 
Do I seriously need to start linking every... single... tweet of him stating false information? How many times he said that covid wouldn't be such a bad thing. Remember how he stated that it would be gone in the summer? Remember how he said that everything is under control? Remember how he said we would wake up one morning and it would be gone? Remember when he said it was not as bad the flu? When it is more dangerous than the flu? 
My point can go on, and on, and on.
I wonder how many people who don't know better believed him to no fault of their own.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> While the comment is accurate in itself, I'm confused how it is related to the quote you are responding to.  He previously mentioned that it's not Trump's fault, while seemingly acknowledging that it is a problem in the US.  Is this more of your projection?


The United States is where it is because of the failures of the Trump administration.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah, that side would attack him for the following
> Downplaying the pandemic
> Knowing that they are downplaying a pandemic
> Not doing anything about a pandemic
> ...


Nobody wants to cause a panic.

Except your side, apparently.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> _sigh_
> Yes, it is Trumps fault. Let's stop pretending that it is.
> Do I seriously need to start linking every... single... tweet of him stating false information? How many times he said that covid wouldn't be such a bad thing. Remember how he stated that it would be gone in the summer? Remember how he said that everything is under control? Remember how he said we would wake up one morning and it would be gone? Remember when he said it was not as bad the flu? When it is more dangerous than the flu?
> My point can go on, and on, and on.
> I wonder how many people who don't know better believed him to no fault of their own.


Thanks for responding to me, but you seem to have trouble reading what I said, and it took it as an invitation to try to convince me why you think it's Trump's fault.  I am not interested, and I didn't make the claim.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Nobody wants to cause a panic.
> 
> Except your side, apparently.


Panic my ass when trump is talking about looters and shooters and rapists in one of his tweets that don't exists. Fear mongering people into believing that immigrants are out to take your jobs or democrats creating illegal votes even though now his win count in courts is 0/12, and still rising. Your telling me this man didn't want to create a panic? Bullshit.
Also, tell me, what's better?
Running out of a burning building, panicking a little?
Or dying in the fire.
Trump has chosen dying in the fire.
This panic argument, is complete dog shit.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Nobody wants to cause a panic.
> 
> Except your side, apparently.


Donald Trump lied about the pandemic and botched the response to the pandemic, a combination that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The "didn't want to cause a panic" excuse demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how to handle a crisis. The best way to avoid a panic would have been to acknowledge the facts and respond to the pandemic. By lying about the pandemic and refusing to do anything substantive in response to it, particularly early in the pandemic, that actually caused more deaths and more of a panic.

Edit: And as mentioned in the post above mine, Donald Trump has no problem causing panics where there should be none if they benefit him politically.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The United States is where it is because of the failures of the Trump administration.


So talk to him about that.  That wasn't too hard to say.  Who claimed that the US isn't a mess?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Nobody wants to cause a panic.
> 
> Except your side, apparently.


That's false as hell, lol.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So talk to him about that.  That wasn't too hard to say.  Who claimed that the US isn't a mess?


He's implying that the United States and the rest of the world are on equal footing. They are not. You are also missing the context of past conversations I've had with this person. Respectfully, you should probably butt out if you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> He's implying that the United States and the rest of the world are on equal footing. They are not. You are also missing the context of past conversations I've had with this person. Respectfully, you should probably butt out if you don't know what you're talking about.


That's an assumption.  And silly considering that he conceded to it being a big deal in the US if not one comment prior.  It is increasing in the world, and he hopes a vaccine comes out soon that may result in these frustrating laws going away.  That's what he said.  You are adding a claim that isn't there because why not strawman when you have the territorial mob unquestionably on your side?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's an assumption.  And silly considering that he conceded to it being a big deal in the US if not one comment prior.  It is increasing in the world, and he hopes a vaccine comes out soon that may result in these frustrating laws going away.  That's what he said.  You are adding a claim that isn't there because why not strawman when you have the territorial mob unquestionably on your side?


He didn't argue that it was "a big deal in the US one comment prior." He did, however, argue that Trump is deserving of no blame one comment prior.

With respect, you aren't very good at this arguing thing.


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The actress was playing a 15 year old girl and was presented to a Giuliani as being 15 she also looked round about that age.


Absolutely not. To my understanding the actress likely was never presented to Giuliani as 15 years old, and never acted as 15 years old in the scene.
https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...m/2020/11/11/movies/maria-bakalova-borat.html

Also, there was heavy editing going on in the scene:
https://slate.com/culture/2020/10/borat-giuliani-sacha-baron-cohen-video-analyzed.html


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> He didn't argue that it was "a big deal in the US one comment prior." He did, however, argue that Trump is deserving of no blame one comment prior.
> 
> With respect, you aren't very good at this arguing thing.


He agreed with the premise and deflected the blame from Trump, to the local governments and also  insinuated that Biden followers weren't doing their part either.  I did not say that he argued that it was a big deal in the US.  That's another fallacy you are making.  If everyone agrees that it's a big deal in the US, nobody needs to make an argument for or against it.  It was never contested.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He agreed with the premise


Put up or shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

notimp said:


> Absolutely not. To my understanding the actress likely was never presented to Giuliani as 15 years old, and never acted as 15 years old in the scene.
> https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...m/2020/11/11/movies/maria-bakalova-borat.html
> 
> Also, there was heavy editing going on in the scene:
> https://slate.com/culture/2020/10/borat-giuliani-sacha-baron-cohen-video-analyzed.html



But @Joom knows what he was thinking.



Lacius said:


> Put up or shut up.


That's on you this time.  You did good at shutting up for a little bit anyway.


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> But @Joom knows what he was thinking.


Was a funny scene, Giuliani likely made a pass. (His speech pattern shifted, and he let his guard down, once 'heavy adoration' was implied during the interview process on her side, but before that he didnt act in anyway as if he knew that she was a child. (No 'patronising', even at  rather  naive questions.) Also, at one point she is confronted with on set production instructions, where she also isnt addressed as a 15 year old girl.  Giuliani at that point is 'protecting her' (he is biting (bravado)).


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's on you this time.


I don't think you know how argumentation works.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I don't think you know how argumentation works.


Yeah, strawmans and ad hominems.  Check the past 86 pages.

Add blatant hypocrisy to that.



notimp said:


> Was a funny scene, Giuliani likely made a pass. (His speech pattern shifted, and he let his guard down, once 'heavy adoration' was implied during the interview process on her side, but before that he didnt act in anyway as if he knew that she was a child. (No 'patronising', even at  rather  naive questions.) Also, at one point she is confronted with on set production instructions, where she also isnt addressed as a 15 year old girl.  Giuliani at that point is 'protecting her' (he is biting (bravado)).


Yeah, I seriously don't doubt that he was taking the bait, but he wasn't totally sure of himself either.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, strawmans and ad hominems.  Check the past 86 pages.


If you can't actually put up, then this just becomes bickering, and I'm uninterested in bickering.

Edit: And if you can't actually put up, then I don't have any reason to pay attention to you.


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, I seriously don't doubt that he was taking the bait, but he wasn't totally sure of himself either.


Well, why not try a double entendre, if you are unsure in that situation. Try, and see if it flies.. 

edit:  That said, hand in trousers, is probably not the best one.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If you can't actually put up, then this just becomes bickering, and I'm uninterested in bickering.



You are uninteresting.  He made a claim about the state of the world, and you have to tell him he's wrong because he is not focusing on America first.  Are you a nationalist now?  Since when am I obliged to disprove the points you completely make up?  That's your obligation to validate a claim.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are uninteresting.  He made a claim about the state of the world, and you have to tell him he's wrong because he is not focusing on America first.  Are you a nationalist now?  Since when am I obliged to disprove the points you completely make up?  That's your obligation to validate a claim.


You made the positive claim ("he conceded to it being a big deal in the US if not one comment prior" and "He agreed with the premise"), so I suggest you learn how the burden of proof works. And with that, I'm unlikely to continue this conversation if you can't put up. This is the second or third time this week that you've been backed into a corner and been unable to demonstrate your point. Deflecting and pretending to have an unwillingness to demonstrate your point, rather than an inability to demonstrate your point, isn't especially convincing, nor is it very interesting.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You made the positive claim ("he conceded to it being a big deal in the US if not one comment prior" and "He agreed with the premise"), so I suggest you learn how the burden of proof works. And with that, I'm unlikely to continue this conversation if you can't put up. This is the second or third time this week that you've been backed into a corner and been unable to demonstrate your point. Deflecting and pretending to have an unwillingness to demonstrate your point, rather than an inability to demonstrate your point, isn't especially convincing, nor is it very interesting.



He agreed with the premise by making an argument on who is to blame for it.  It's passive concession, but it shows that there is no contention with the premise.  You want to ignore the logic of that and make the conversation about an easily controllable subject that nobody can or does disagree with.  That's quite literally a strawman.  My memory is that the last conversation we had ended with you shutting up.  My point was made clear.  You are just too poor of a sport to be accountable for your baiting tactics.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 14, 2020)

notimp said:


> Absolutely not. To my understanding the actress likely was never presented to Giuliani as 15 years old, and never acted as 15 years old in the scene.
> https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...m/2020/11/11/movies/maria-bakalova-borat.html
> 
> Also, there was heavy editing going on in the scene:
> https://slate.com/culture/2020/10/borat-giuliani-sacha-baron-cohen-video-analyzed.html



I read the scene with Giuliani messing with his pants was because he was removing the microphone setup he had attached to him while that Sasha guy was recording it using a hidden camera. After he got the footage of Giuliani removing the mic, he edited it and made it seem like something else was going on when that simply wasn't the case.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah, that side would attack him for the following
> Downplaying the pandemic
> Knowing that they are downplaying a pandemic
> Not doing anything about a pandemic
> ...



Exactly, you're going to blame and attack Trump no matter what action he takes. It's called "orange man bad" syndrome or TDS (abbreviation of said disorder).


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

*Donald Trump's legal problems worsen as a Philadelphia appeals court denies all five of his law suits, lawyers abandon him in Arizona and Pennsylvania and Michigan judge throws out bid to stop Detroit's votes being certified.*

*https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...phia-appeals-court-denies-five-law-suits.html*


----------



## PiracyForTheMasses (Nov 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah, that side would attack him for the following
> Downplaying the pandemic
> Knowing that they are downplaying a pandemic
> Not doing anything about a pandemic
> ...





Lacius said:


> Donald Trump lied about the pandemic and botched the response to the pandemic, a combination that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The "didn't want to cause a panic" excuse demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how to handle a crisis. The best way to avoid a panic would have been to acknowledge the facts and respond to the pandemic. By lying about the pandemic and refusing to do anything substantive in response to it, particularly early in the pandemic, that actually caused more deaths and more of a panic.
> 
> Edit: And as mentioned in the post above mine, Donald Trump has no problem causing panics where there should be none if they benefit him politically.





monkeyman4412 said:


> Panic my ass when trump is talking about looters and shooters and rapists in one of his tweets that don't exists. Fear mongering people into believing that immigrants are out to take your jobs or democrats creating illegal votes even though now his win count in courts is 0/12, and still rising. Your telling me this man didn't want to create a panic? Bullshit.
> Also, tell me, what's better?
> Running out of a burning building, panicking a little?
> Or dying in the fire.
> ...



WOW, how could you be so uneducated on the subject? Tells us again how it is Trumps fault that your state and local government failed you. I live in a state that is perfectly fine because my leaders know how to lead when their people need a leader, its that simple. Hey guess what, experts lied to Trump, the government, the American people, where is their backlash? Tell us how Fauci is a credible person & why is he still allowed on platforms. If Trump was a career politician do you think he would be getting backlash or do you think the Dr would get the backlash and it would forever shadow any and all work he had previously done. Facts are these "experts" did not know anything about the virus & straight up lied. World Health Organization also lied to the American people, but Trump gets the blame for that too. Another fact you forget to mention is the flu is in FACT more deadly than CCP virus, the difference is the flu has been around for how long? Yea without modern medicine people would be dropping like flies due to flu. Fear mongering people into believing immigrants are going to take their jobs, well lets look at the facts. Hey, are you aware of Operation Wetback? No, of course you are not aware of it because you're an uneducated snowflake. Are you aware of dumping acts? Are you aware that the government use to encourage Americans to buy American made? No, no you are not. Tell us again how voter fraud didn't happen when MANY Americans have witnessed voter fraud first hand. I've grown up around voter fraud clown. Mail in voting just made it easier. The type of corruption you see on tv happens in real life in USA, many people see it and live it every day. Majority of you clowns on here know absolutely nothing about the history of America, nor do you know shit about politics other than what you see in the news. Word of wisdom to all of you, go get an education and stop buying into the bullshit the corrupt machine feeds you. Democrats are 100% corrupt. Republicans are 100% corrupt. Any and ALL career politicians are anti America & it takes an outsider to get shit done. History proves the facts are anyone that voted Biden are not pro America. If you do not believe me educated yourself on the facts and you might just be surprised.


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I read the scene with Giuliani messing with his pants was because he was removing the microphone setup he had attached to him while that Sasha guy was recording it using a hidden camera. After he got the footage of Giuliani removing the mic, he edited it and made it seem like something else was going on when that simply wasn't the case.


Sure you do, because every Trump fan does.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

PiracyForTheMasses said:


> WOW, how could you be so uneducated on the subject? Tells us again how it is Trumps fault that your state and local government failed you. I live in a state that is perfectly fine because my leaders know how to lead when their people need a leader, its that simple. Hey guess what, experts lied to Trump, the government, the American people, where is their backlash? Tell us how Fauci is a credible person & why is he still allowed on platforms. If Trump was a career politician do you think he would be getting backlash or do you think the Dr would get the backlash and it would forever shadow any and all work he had previously done. Facts are these "experts" did not know anything about the virus & straight up lied. World Health Organization also lied to the American people, but Trump gets the blame for that too. Another fact you forget to mention is the flu is in FACT more deadly than CCP virus, the difference is the flu has been around for how long? Yea without modern medicine people would be dropping like flies due to flu. Fear mongering people into believing immigrants are going to take their jobs, well lets look at the facts. Hey, are you aware of Operation Wetback? No, of course you are not aware of it because you're an uneducated snowflake. Are you aware of dumping acts? Are you aware that the government use to encourage Americans to buy American made? No, no you are not. Tell us again how voter fraud didn't happen when MANY Americans have witnessed voter fraud first hand. I've grown up around voter fraud clown. Mail in voting just made it easier. The type of corruption you see on tv happens in real life in USA, many people see it and live it every day. Majority of you clowns on here know absolutely nothing about the history of America, nor do you know shit about politics other than what you see in the news. Word of wisdom to all of you, go get an education and stop buying into the bullshit the corrupt machine feeds you. Democrats are 100% corrupt. Republicans are 100% corrupt. Any and ALL career politicians are anti America & it takes an outsider to get shit done. History proves the facts are anyone that voted Biden are not pro America. If you do not believe me educated yourself on the facts and you might just be surprised.


1. Trump's initial failures include, but aren't limited to:

Effectively ending the pandemic response team a year or two before the pandemic hit
Downplaying risks by saying publicly that COVID-19 was not a big deal and nobody should be worried <-- We know that this alone contributed and continues to contribute to increased infection rates
The lack of a federal response to address a lack of testing
The lack of a federal response to address a lack of PPE
A lack of a federal response to address social distancing
Encouraging states and municipalities to reopen too quickly
Encouraging states and municipalities not to shutdown at all
A failure to address needed financial stimulus aside from the initial round
Continuing to this day to peddle misinformation about masks, suggesting they cause one to be more likely to catch COVID-19
Suggesting disinfectant in the lungs can be an effective treatment against COVID-19
Continuing almost to this day to hold super spreader rallies with no social distancing and few masks, inside and outside
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_communication_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._federal_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump#COVID-19_pandemic

2. COVID-19 is deadlier and more contagious than the flu. A bad flu season will kill approximately 60,000 Americans each year without physical distancing, masks, etc., but COVID-19 has killed 244,000 Americans (and rising) this year *with *physical distancing, masks, etc. This isn't even controversial.

3. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html

https://apnews.com/article/election...litics-media-1bf96bf3910bdcbe0f125958357c8f1a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...nt-trumps-false-claims-vote-fraud-chronology/


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

The President of the United States is saying that there was voter fraud.  You can disagree with him, but him making the claim puts the ball in his court; not yours.  You unfortunately, like the rest of us, have to bear waiting this out until he fails to deliver on time, or is struck down entirely.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Forgot one possible outcome: He delivers.  Lol.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The President of the United States is saying that there was voter fraud.  You can disagree with him, but him making the claim puts the ball in his court; not yours.  You unfortunately, like the rest of us, have to bear waiting this out until he fails to deliver on time, or is struck down entirely.


What the President says about widespread voter fraud is irrelevant is the absence of evidence of widespread voter fraud. To both you and the President: Put up or shut up.

In reality, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and Trump's lawsuits have been falling hard and fast.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

The president has to put up.  Not me.  And he has a deadline that you have no choice but to respect.  You can appeal to yourself as an authority, but that makes you delusional.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The president has to put up.  Not me.  And he has a deadline that you have no choice but to respect.  You can appeal to yourself as an authority, but that makes you delusional.


If you're going to argue there's evidence of widespread voter fraud that can change the results of the election, you have to put up or shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

The argument I made about the evidence regarding widespread voter fraud has already been addressed.  Not my fault that you chose to take a leave of absence and then come back to pretend it never happened.  Some might say that Trump is implicating himself as a witness, which is also a form of evidence--probably the primary form of it considering.  I know that you hate that, but I cannot alter this fact for you.  I'm waiting too.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The argument I made about the evidence regarding widespread voter fraud has already been addressed.  Not my fault that you chose to take a leave of absence and then come back to pretend it never happened.  Some might say that Trump is implicating himself as a witness, which is also a form of evidence--probably the primary form of it considering.  I know that you hate that, but I cannot alter this fact for you.  I'm waiting too.


If I missed your evidence of widespread voter fraud, I apologize and humbly ask that you re-post it. However, if you can't actually put up, then there's no reason for anybody to pay attention to your posts on the matter.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Don't be lazy dude.  That's just distracting.  Of course I posted.  What matters now is that we have a pretend showdown between Lacius and the POTUS.  Lol.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Don't be lazy dude.  That's just distracting.  Of course I posted.


If you have evidence of widespread voter fraud, please (re)post it. I didn't see it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

I don't believe you.  There's only 4-6 new pages of posts.  Try for once.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't believe you.  There's only 4-6 new pages of posts.  Try for once.



I did not see any evidence posted by you or anyone else that there was widespread voter fraud. If you are going to claim there was widespread voter fraud, you can post it now or be rightfully ignored. Anything else is a waste of time.
Pro-tip: When you are conversing with someone here, you should always tag them by name or directly reply to their posts. If you don't tag me or directly reply to one of my posts by hitting the reply button, I'm not going to get a notification that you responded.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

Oh no.  @Lacius is going to ignore me if I don't post my wall of text quoting him and addressing point by point.  If you want the distraction, you can feel free to repost whatever you think is my latest relevent post, and we can rehash it.  Forgive me if I don't want to be the one that walks an extra mile for you.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 14, 2020)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54874120

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...theyre-quite-alive-despite-false-fraud-claims

Another blow to the trump case, the voters he said were dead in Michigan....were actually alive this whole time and are well.....


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Oh no.  @Lacius is going to ignore me if I don't post my wall of text quoting him and addressing point by point.  If you want the distraction, you can feel free to repost whatever you think is my latest relevent post, and we can rehash it.  Forgive me if I don't want to be the one that walks an extra mile for you.


The only thing I asked for was evidence of widespread voter fraud, not a "wall of text quoting him and addressing point by point." Try again.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 14, 2020)

You are asking me to "repost".  Beggars can't be choosers.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are asking me to "repost".  Beggars can't be choosers.


Remember how you asked if I was attacking your character when I made the statement about you guys not listening to evidence?
Yeah... at this point I'll let it be an attack on your character.
We've already told you, shown you, used evidence from courts, that there is no voter fraud. We've provided our sources. We've provided arguments.
Now here you are just wanting to make a statement, without any evidence, and then when someone asks you for evidence, you side step the issue and attack the person.
When lacius asks you to "put up or shut up"
We are strictly asking for evidence to your claims, evidence that is irrefutable or at least strong. That doesn't have some significant issue or extreme leaning.
If it comes from something like idk
Project vertias or beritbart. When they have a long track record of either having extremist views and along with not being factual. We write that evidence off. Because that source, is extremely sketchy. TO prevent problems since I don't know if you can natively use English or you use google translate. Replace sketchy with questionable.
Sources we often use, are as least extreme as possible and has a high reputation of accurately reporting things.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Now here you are just wanting to make a statement, without any evidence, and then when someone asks you for evidence, you side step the issue and attack the person.


You're arguing with someone who tried to defend pedophilia. I don't think you're gonna have any luck in your endeavors.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> You're arguing with someone who tried to defend pedophilia. I don't think you're gonna have any luck in your endeavors.


yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes
didn't see that....
been off and on the forms, been balancing a lot of life stuff recently.


edit:
Correction, no I saw it, I just must of forgot that it happened/the discussion of it. Was likely focused on a different discussion
still that's a big yikes


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> You're arguing with someone who tried to defend pedophilia. I don't think you're gonna have any luck in your endeavors.


He did *what*?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 14, 2020)

It's sort of weird how the Left can claim there was no voter fraud before all of the votes are even counted. Their media tells them there's none so there must not be any! LOL!


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> He did *what*?


Yeah, we got on the subject of the Giuliani scene from the new Borat movie, and he was like "if an old man wants to have sex with a 15 year old, we should let that pass because he's probably not getting any anyway".



gregory-samba said:


> It's sort of weird how the Left can claim there was no voter fraud before all of the votes are even counted. Their media tells them there's none so there must not be any! LOL!


You do know we're past this, right? It's like I said about you conservatives; you think the media makes everyone's decisions because it's what controls yours. We don't have to listen to the media when court records, and even statements from the Republican party, contradict any claim of voter fraud. The Republican party even admitted they know no fraud took place, but they're rallying behind the notion to keep the ignorant base riled up so they can possibly win the Senate in January. They're worried that if they admit defeat, Republican voters will be too depressed to show up to vote. They're causing literal harm to US democracy just so they can retain power. In short, you're a dupe and a fool.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's sort of weird how the Left can claim there was no voter fraud before all of the votes are even counted. Their media tells them there's none so there must not be any! LOL!


But claiming widespread voter fraud with no evidence before all the votes are even in is fine, right?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> Yeah, we got on the subject of the Giuliani scene from the new Borat movie, and he was like "if an old man wants to have sex with a 15 year old, we should let that pass because he's probably not getting any anyway".
> 
> 
> You do know we're past this, right? It's like I said about you conservatives; you think the media makes everyone's decisions because it's what controls yours. We don't have to listen to the media when court records, and even statements from the Republican party, contradict any claim of voter fraud. The Republican party even admitted they know no fraud took place, but they're rallying behind the notion to keep the ignorant base riled up so they can possibly win the Senate in January. They're worried that if they admit defeat, Republican voters will be too depressed to show up to vote. They're causing literal harm to US democracy just so they can retain power. In short, you're a dupe and a fool.


I guess we already knew that they'll defend anything.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> It's sort of weird how the Left can claim there was no voter fraud before all of the votes are even counted. Their media tells them there's none so there must not be any! LOL!


There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, whether or not the votes have all been counted (and they largely have been at this point). It's a grand mistake to claim there is voter fraud in the absence of evidence of voter fraud.

I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient for what your side has embarrassingly become.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 14, 2020)

For some reason I get @Joom and @Jayro confused. I sometimes think they're the same person.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud


Certainly, however the current administration has to _put forth every effort _to maintain the presidency, even if that means throwing conjecture into the wind. They owe it to the donors that invested in the campaign


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

0x3000027E said:


> Certainly, however the current administration has to _put forth every effort _to maintain the presidency, even if that means throwing conjecture into the wind. They owe it to the donors that invested in the campaign


They don't owe anybody an attempt to dismantle democracy.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> dismantle democracy


I admit, I am a bit surprised of such an exaggerated statement from you, dear sir. These claims of voter fraud have simply dissolved once challenged; the lawsuits are vanishing, along with public and political support. So what exactly do you fear?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

0x3000027E said:


> I admit, I am a bit surprised of such an exaggerated statement from you, dear sir. These claims of voter fraud have simply dissolved once challenged; the lawsuits are vanishing, along with public and political support. So what exactly do you fear?


The goal of Trump is to get the courts to throw out legitimately cast votes. I don't know what else you would call it.

Edit: To be clear, I know nothing can or will come of this, and I am not afraid of anything happening.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the (Democratic) Party is always right.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the (Democratic) Party is always right.


If you are going to argue that there has been widespread voter fraud, put up or shut up. It's that simple.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

0x3000027E said:


> They owe it to the donors that invested in the campaign


Is that why Trump is pocketing 60% from the "Election Defense Fund" to pay off campaign debts? Not enough donors to begin with or something?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the (Democratic) Party is always right.


You're the victim of double-speak, or you have Stockholm syndrome one, I swear. All of you conservatives act like a beaten spouse. Just keep ignoring Trump's education curriculum of "American Exceptionalism" and the "1776 Project". You wanna talk about book burnings? It's the Republicans doing it. I'm sorry you believed the lie. I'm sorry that you believe that the left are out to get you just because a fascist convinced you that a non-existent boogieman exists. Hopefully one day, you reach an age of reason and begin to question authority and the actions of those who control your life.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 14, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If you are going to argue that there has been widespread voter fraud, put up or shut up. It's that simple.


Exactly.  It's clear Ultra wants to offer a rebuttal, but he has nothing new to add that wasn't debunked already, so instead he attacked a superficially similar point (i.e. Democratic Party's honesty) .


UltraSUPRA said:


> Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the (Democratic) Party is always right.


Speaking of Alternative Facts:

Windmills cause cancer
Climate Change is a Chinese hoax

Obama wasn't born in the US
B-b-but... Obama's birth certificate isn't real!
Obama plays too much golf
The national debt will be paid off over a period of 8 years
Mexico's going to pay for the wall
There are very fine people on both sides
We have Covid under control
B-b-but... Covid will go away by summer!
Ted Cruz stole the Iowa caucus
The Democrats rigged the 2016 election
The Democrats rigged the 2020 election, too!


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the (Democratic) Party is always right.


Hypocritical much when Trump has been destroying Whitehouse documents illegally and his staff have had to tape them back together.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-official-documents-destroy-white-house-staff-repair-presidential-records-national-archives-a8392856.html?amp


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> You're the victim of double-speak, or you have Stockholm syndrome one, I swear. All of you conservatives act like a beaten spouse. Just keep ignoring Trump's education curriculum of "American Exceptionalism"


What's wrong with nationalism?


Joom said:


> and the "1776 Project".


What's wrong with history?


Joom said:


> You wanna talk about book burnings? It's the Republicans doing it.


Examples?


Joom said:


> I'm sorry you believed the lie. I'm sorry that you believe that the left are out to get you just because a fascist convinced you that a non-existent boogieman exists. Hopefully one day, you reach an age of reason and begin to question authority and the actions of those who control your life.


Four years of being called racist, sexist, xenophobic, fascist, etc. and you think that the people like you being out to get us is a lie.


LumInvader said:


> Windmills cause cancer


We're talking about Trump, not Quixote. When did Trump say that windmills cause cancer?


LumInvader said:


> Climate Change is a Chinese hoax


1. While it is true that the climate is changing, there is no proof that we're the problem.
2. If we are the problem, the solution is nuclear energy. Even Joom agrees with me on that.


LumInvader said:


> Obama wasn't born in the US
> B-b-but... Obama's birth certificate isn't real!


I remember Trump asking Obama about his birth certificate. I don't remember Trump saying it isn't real.


LumInvader said:


> Obama plays too much golf


What?


LumInvader said:


> The national debt will be paid off over a period of 8 years
> Mexico's going to pay for the wall


I wonder why that didn't happen...could it be that you screeched at him the entire time?


LumInvader said:


> There are very fine people on both sides


Context matters.


LumInvader said:


> We have Covid under control
> B-b-but... Covid will go away by summer!


I will admit that Trump may have under-reacted a bit with the COVID, but not to the extent that the media has been *over*reacting.


LumInvader said:


> Ted Cruz stole the Iowa caucus


What?


LumInvader said:


> The Democrats rigged the 2016 election
> The Democrats rigged the 2020 election, too!


Is it also a conspiracy to say that the Russians did?


----------



## notimp (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What's wrong with nationalism?


Basically, it reduces transaction flows, which reduces wealth. Innovation.

Currently distribution of wealth is off, and innovation isnt looked for structurally in highly developed countries, where the population will shrink (roughly).

(Thinking behind it goes as follows. You can develop other countries with current tech - and make money. And when they reach roughly your 'developmental stage' (work expertise), you'd want to push innovation spending on countries, where the middle class is growing (more 'first adopters'/customers) - in absolute numbers. (More profit per investment spending.) Part of that growth you are looking for is natural growth (population growth).

(Distribution of wealth is off, because everyone can produce in mexico basically 'overnight' at least most goods that are still produced in the US - which means, no union power possible. Internationally the issue (for developed countries) is globalization (Think mexico example, extrapolate to the world.). Both mean - increased production (because more markets), but lower wages in developed countries.)

Also - many large problems can only be addressed by 'internationalism'.
-

Also outlook of nationalism is problematic. In the US maybe less so than elsewhere. Because it leads to less trade contact, more cultural myth building, more animosity - and in the end more wars. (Just because of economic imbalances.).



UltraSUPRA said:


> 2. If we are the problem, the solution is nuclear energy. Even Joom agrees with me on that.


No its not. (At least not alone. And at least not 'to a large extent' 'in every country'.) Too many problems arise out of the use of nuclear energy. Mostly waste and 'end of life safety' related. And upfront cost (its not that cheap to build nuclear reactors at scale).

Nuclear reactors are touted as a fallback for renewables at scale. (So when night, and no wind blows, add nuclear capacity). Because energy storage is such an issue (with anything not oil, or coal, ..  ) (you loose so much through storage). But even there, people would rather not rely on them in many countries, and find alternatives... Which actually, is partly cost driven, even at this point.

Renewables will come. The question rather is when. And 'how much of their innovation is produced in my country' (not for innovations sake, but for 'value add' (value that is generated in country, through labor)). And if the answer is 'factories are fully automated by then, and china controls the ressource market' - well... Not much money that stays in the 'producing country' (even if nationalistic  ) I'm afraid...


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 14, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's sort of weird how the Left can claim there was no voter fraud before all of the votes are even counted. Their media tells them there's none so there must not be any! LOL!


Yeah, them pesky soyboys relying on things like facts and evidence! If only those authenticity-based sheeple can open their third eyes and only accept what Q and the 45th tells them only then will they realize the truth!


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Hypocritical much when Trump has been destroying Whitehouse documents illegally and his staff have had to tape them back together.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-official-documents-destroy-white-house-staff-repair-presidential-records-national-archives-a8392856.html?amp


wonder how much jail time for that he'll serve  speaking of i fear trum can pardon himself in nixon fashion declare himself unfit to be president (fake a reoccurance of  covid maybe?) pence takes over pardons trump trump assumes power again it's a unfathomable scenario but nothing would supprise me at this point


----------



## omgcat (Nov 14, 2020)

notimp said:


> Basically, it reduces transaction flows, which reduces wealth. Innovation.
> 
> Currently distribution of wealth is off, and innovation isnt looked for structurally in highly developed countries, where the population will shrink (roughly).
> 
> ...




Corps will always put profits over anything else. ironically this means corporations are guzzling renewables since they are cheaper than FF sources across the board now. the slow uptake of renewables wouldn't have taken so long if we didn't have absurd amounts of subsidies on fossil fuels. for a great snapshot of renewable energy and information about it you can check the IEA. https://www.iea.org/reports/renewables-2020

Medium to long term storage of renewables is currently being worked on in the form of pumped water storage and large scale battery tech. hopefully next-gen reactor designs are studied and approved soon as well.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Four years of being called racist, sexist, xenophobic, fascist, etc. and you think that the people like you being out to get us is a lie.


Oh boohoo, you're such a martyr. If you don't want to be called these things, don't act like these things. We also don't call you these things out of hate or ignorance. I've said it before; if it quacks like a duck. 


UltraSUPRA said:


> What's wrong with nationalism?


Case in point.

Also, so much for "cancel culture making its way to the courtroom". Giuliani actually hurt Trump's chances of a proper legal defense.
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/11/14/giuliani-trump-legal-plans-436475


----------



## omgcat (Nov 14, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> wonder how much jail time for that he'll serve  speaking of i fear trum can pardon himself in nixon fashion declare himself unfit to be president (fake a reoccurance of  covid maybe?) pence takes over pardons trump trump assumes power again it's a unfathomable scenario but nothing would supprise me at this point



he can't pardon himself for state level crimes, only Governors of the respective states can do that. I don't think Andrew Cuomo is gonna do that. honestly the self pardon is a dumb, he will most likely resign and have pence do it.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

Joom said:


> Oh boohoo, you're such a martyr. If you don't want to be called these things, don't act like these things.
> 
> Case in point.


The belief that your country is the best there is isn't bad.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wonder why that didn't happen...could it be that you screeched at him the entire time?



trump had all the chambers from beginning of 2017 to the end of the 2018 races. why didn't they do it then? how would a minority party in both chambers stop it?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> The belief that your country is the best there is isn't bad.


except America is not the best, we are shit at education and our happiness index is fucked. don't even get me started on our prison population.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the (Democratic) Party is always right.


we're reaching levels of cope that are unheard of


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 14, 2020)

idk maybe their trying for federal tax crimes not state level


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The belief that your country is the best there is isn't bad.


It's a lie, though. Teaching lies in the classroom is fascistic and detrimental to the spread of facts and education.



UltraSUPRA said:


> I wonder why that didn't happen...could it be that you screeched at him the entire time?


Implying it's our fault the president lied to you lul. You continue to prove how big of snowflakes Trump and his supporters are.


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 14, 2020)

either way I rather see him as bubba's play thing as much as the next guy but i feel that will not happen


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The belief that your country is the best there is isn't bad.


That's not quite the issue, sir. There's a common trope amongst Americans called American Exceptionalism, you've probably heard of it. It's kind of a cancer, to put it mildly, it creates people who think they're better than other people because they're Americans, when they're not. It also causes people to selectively be outraged, like the people who think it's okay that America went into the Middle East post-9/11 because of the "good intentions."


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What?



Citations:

Windmills cause cancer:
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/437096-trump-claims-noise-from-windmills-causes-cancer


> “If you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations, your house just went down 75 percent in value. And they say the noise causes cancer,” the president said while delivering remarks at the National Republican Congressional Committee's annual spring dinner. He offered no evidence to support the claim.



Obama's birth certificate isn't real:


> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.
> 4:23 PM · Aug 6, 2012





> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> Attention all hackers: You are hacking everything else so please hack Obama's college records (destroyed?) and check "place of birth"
> 6:06 AM · Sep 6, 2014



Obama played golf more often as President:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-defends-golf-trips-falsely-claims-less-than-obama-2020-7


> While Trump claimed that he has golfed fewer times than his predecessor, that's not accurate, according to a CNN fact check from May. Trump has spent 266 days at his golf clubs at the end of May while Obama had played 98 rounds by that point in his presidency.





> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> We pay for Obama's travel so he can fundraise millions so Democrats can run on lies. Then we pay for his golf.
> 3:35 PM · Oct 14, 2014





> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> @BarackObama played golf yesterday. Now he  heads to a 10 day vacation in Martha's Vineyard.  Nice work ethic.
> 1:36 PM · Aug 15, 2011



Bonus link:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/trumps-long-history-with-conspiracy-theories/


> Conspiracies covered in article:
> - False Birther Conspiracy
> - ISIS and Obama
> - Ted Cruz’s Father and JFK’s Assassination
> ...





> - Biden and SEAL Team 6
> - The ‘ANTIFA provocateur’
> - Biden and ‘the Dark Shadows’
> - Scalia’s Death
> ...



*Every-rational-person-here* realizes how effing crazy these conspiracy theories are.  Oh!  And speaking of conspiracy theories, please let us know when you uncover evidence of widespread election fraud.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 14, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Citations:


I am so ultimately disappointed that this great effortpost will go ignored
Prove me wrong, kids. Prove me wrong.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> either way I rather see him as bubba's play thing as much as the next guy but i feel that will not happen


If you mean Trump, jail would be too comfortable for him. High profile, white collar criminals never see the shit of gen pop or anything else because they get segregated. Trump especially would be murdered day one. I'd rather see him teetering on homelessness and deciding whether to buy food or to keep running water. I want to see him subject to what he and his administration did to the citizens of this country during a global pandemic. Better yet, just take him to a COVID ward and have all the patients cough on him, then kick him to the gutter. We'll see how long he makes it without the aid of steroids and stem cells from aborted fetal tissue.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

Funny how there has been absolutely no comment back from someone who likes to post shit here about his beloved president destroying documents.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 14, 2020)

*Trump election lawsuit in Arizona's Maricopa County dismissed*
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-maricopa-county-dismissed-judge/6296977002/


> An attempt by Republican officials to have more Maricopa County ballots reinspected by hand, possibly changing final vote tallies, *has failed*.
> 
> Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Daniel Kiley on Friday dismissed claims filed on behalf of Donald Trump's campaign, the Republican National Committee and the Arizona Republican Party as moot, meaning further legal proceedings are pointless.



*Report: Trump puts Giuliani in charge of election lawsuits*
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...iuliani-in-charge-of-election-lawsuits-report


> Giuliani’s association with Trump *has come under increased scrutiny* in recent months in part due to media appearances in which he made embarrassing gaffes. He was most recently *criticized for holding a press conference in the parking lot of a landscaping company near a pornography shop.*





> Aides reportedly said that *Giuliani has been hyping up Trump’s expectations* *of the lawsuits,* *which many maintain are unwinnable* but the former mayor has said are within the campaign’s reach.


----------



## Joom (Nov 14, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Report: Trump puts Giuliani in charge of election lawsuits


How foolhardy. Dunno if you saw this, but I posted it on the last page. 
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/11/14/giuliani-trump-legal-plans-436475

Turns out Giuliani's Four Seasons stunt is what made several lawyers walk away. Like I said, this whole thing has been a case of shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the gun. I guess this is what 4D chess looks like, though.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Funny how there has been absolutely no comment back from someone who likes to post shit here about his beloved president destroying documents.


You know what, I had completely forgotten about that story.  It's totally relevant.  I was going to comment on it, but I kinda got sidetracked.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 14, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Funny how there has been absolutely no comment back from someone who likes to post shit here about his beloved president destroying documents.


I know when to give up.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 14, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Trump election lawsuit in Arizona's Maricopa County dismissed*
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-maricopa-county-dismissed-judge/6296977002/
> 
> 
> ...


He is a shit lawyer and even worse cyber security expert lol twice last year he gave out vital government information to someone pretending to be Kim Kardashian via email  He did zero checks to confirm it was her and it was just some prankster pretending to be her.

And there is also this 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1074241




UltraSUPRA said:


> I know when to give up.


Unlike your president it would seem


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 15, 2020)

Would Pence even care to pardon Trump?


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I know when to give up.


But are you giving up because you accept the rebuttal, or because you can't come up with one to disprove it? Y'know, it's not bad to admit you were wrong, and that your line of thinking is flawed. This is how we grow as humans, and advance toward an intelligent society. Humility and modesty will always carry you further than arrogance and ego.


KingVamp said:


> Would Pence even care to pardon Trump?


Trump can pardon himself. Nixon did it. The president of the US really is the most powerful person on the face of the planet. They don't exaggerate when they say that.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> But are you giving up because you accept the rebuttal, or because you can't come up with one to disprove it? Y'know, it's not bad to admit you were wrong, and that your line of thinking is flawed. This is how we grow as humans, and advance toward an intelligent society. Humility and modesty will always carry you further than arrogance and ego.
> 
> Trump can pardon himself. Nixon did it. The president of the US really is the most powerful person on the face of the planet. They don't exaggerate when they say that.


Nixon didn't pardon himself. However, I'm sure Trump believes he can pardon himself.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Nixon didn't pardon himself. However, I'm sure Trump believes he can pardon himself.


I mean, Ford technically did, but it required Nixon to resign.


> His options for resigning were to delay his resignation until further along in the impeachment process to try to settle for a censure vote in Congress or to pardon himself and then resign.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par... Nixon's actions during the Watergate scandal.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> I mean, Ford technically did, but it required Nixon to resign.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon#:~:text=The pardon of Richard Nixon,Ford on September 8, 1974.&text=In particular, the pardon covered Nixon's actions during the Watergate scandal.


Do we think Trump will do the same thing, or do we think his ego will prevent him from doing so?


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Do we think Trump will do the same thing, or do we think his ego will prevent him from doing so?


Wouldn't giving himself a pardon be a sign that he admits to doing something wrong? He is never going to do that lol


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> How foolhardy. Dunno if you saw this, but I posted it on the last page.
> https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/11/14/giuliani-trump-legal-plans-436475
> 
> Turns out Giuliani's Four Seasons stunt is what made several lawyers walk away. Like I said, this whole thing has been a case of shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the gun. I guess this is what 4D chess looks like, though.


I'll read that article later.  It looks friggin hilarious.

After Borat 2, Giuliani really, REALLY needed this.  Trump elevated him from rock bottom to leading multiple election fraud lawsuits that are going absolutely nowhere.  I can't think of anyone better suited for this role than Giuliani.

This was only made possible because Trump's legal teams have finally seen the light.  Their reasoning probably looks something like this:

1. Tired of the negative publicity.
2. The Trump campaign is running low on money and he has a history of not paying for services rendered.
3. These cases are mostly unwinnable, which are automatic L's on the firm's track record.

Of course, none of the above phases Giuliani!  His reasoning probably looks a little more like this:

1. Tiger Blood
2. Bi-winning
3. Winner Winner Chicken Dinner


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 15, 2020)

And I just witnessed climate change denial
OHHHH BOYYY
I'm now really depressed with humanity. How on earth does someone still think that climate change isn't a human problem that we created? how far gone from reality must you be?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 15, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And I just witnessed climate change denial
> OHHHH BOYYY
> I'm now really depressed with humanity. How on earth does someone still think that climate change isn't a human problem that we created? how far gone from reality must you be?


Because these people literally believe that because there is cold/snow outside during certain seasons in certain places there is no way it can exist at all. Basically using only their senses and not actual scientific data to back up their beliefs, same as flat earthers who think the earth is flat because they can't see the curvature of the earth at all times or feel any of earths motion as it rotates and revolves around the sun.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And I just witnessed climate change denial
> OHHHH BOYYY
> I'm now really depressed with humanity. How on earth does someone still think that climate change isn't a human problem that we created? how far gone from reality must you be?


It's mostly because people are too concerned with what's immediately before them. The boomers left this present for the millennials because they didn't take their future grandchildren into consideration, and that same ideology has carried over through the generations who were raised by boomers. Boomers also still run most of the government, and Gen X'ers aren't much better. The difference is that the boomers are the "gimme" generation, and X'ers are the "I don't care" generation. Meanwhile, their children and grandchildren are left to suffer under the mess they created.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Remember how you asked if I was attacking your character when I made the statement about you guys not listening to evidence?
> Yeah... at this point I'll let it be an attack on your character.
> We've already told you, shown you, used evidence from courts, that there is no voter fraud. We've provided our sources. We've provided arguments.
> Now here you are just wanting to make a statement, without any evidence, and then when someone asks you for evidence, you side step the issue and attack the person.
> ...


Oh that's cool.  You can retroactively change the meaning and the intention of what you said by using a switch in your mind.  Too bad nothing of what you are saying has anything to do with what I've said.



Joom said:


> You're arguing with someone who tried to defend pedophilia. I don't think you're gonna have any luck in your endeavors.



I did not "try to defend pedophilia."  I only said that you can't know that Guilini is a pedophile based on Borat movie scene.  I said that it is likely that he was attracted to a 24 year old girl, and that if she did say she was 15, it only confused him.  Your support the notion that you know he is a pedophile because you know what he was thinking.  The evidence you share by saying this is that you have a kinship with pedophiles on an exclusive level.



Joom said:


> Yeah, we got on the subject of the Giuliani scene from the new Borat movie, and he was like "if an old man wants to have sex with a 15 year old, we should let that pass because he's probably not getting any anyway".



If you are going to quote me, then quote me.  Don't make up things and pretend I said them.



Lacius said:


> I guess we already knew that they'll defend anything.



Fun game you are playing.   I think pedophilia is patently worse than lying.  But you, Lacius, say that they are the same thing.  I've already witnessed you lying, so you are likely guilty of both.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you are going to quote me, then quote me. Don't make up things and pretend I said them.


Why would you ever ask your accuser to incriminate you further? I'm just going by the analogy you tried to give and then called me dense for not understanding. You sympathized with pedophilia. There's absolutely no way you can justify it. People who care enough can go back and read it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Why would you ever ask your accuser to incriminate you further? I'm just going by the analogy you tried to give and then called me dense for not understanding. You sympathized with pedophilia. There's absolutely no way you can justify it. People who care enough can go back and read it.


I'm asking you use direct references.  Not to double-down and lie even harder.  You are still too dense for not understanding what I wrote.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm asking you use direct references.  Not to double-down and lie even harder.  You are still too dense for not understanding what I wrote.


I don't have to. You know what you said. People can see what you said. There's no other way to understand what you said by sympathizing with Giuliani and saying "it's ok because she was actually of age, but Giuliani didn't know that, but he must have because people can magically determine age". We've had this argument. It's already done. You sympathize with pedophiles. If you didn't want to come off that way, maybe you shouldn't have involved yourself in a race you didn't have a horse in. The one who argues in gotchas ironically got caught by a gotcha.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

You do know that pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent/minors.  If Guiliani is attracted to someone who is physically 24, and mentally 24, then that is not pedophilia.   People can read what I wrote, but for some reason I feel compelled to point out that when you use quotations like that, that a search using the site functions will point to you as being the only person to have said it.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Oh that's cool.  You can retroactively change the meaning and the intention of what you said by using a switch in your mind.  Too bad nothing of what you are saying has anything to do with what I've said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you just argue that liars are likely pedophiles?

Also, when you can't actually show a time I lied, I have no choice but to ignore your claims that I'm a liar.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Oh that's cool.  You can retroactively change the meaning and the intention of what you said by using a switch in your mind.  Too bad nothing of what you are saying has anything to do with what I've said.



Nothing to do with what you said?
Well then...
Let's have a conversation refresh? _shall we?_


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Nothing to do with what you said?
> Well then...
> Let's have a conversation refresh? _shall we?_


I don't recommend a conversation with him. He will never offer evidence for any of his false claims.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Did you just argue that liars are likely pedophiles?



Yeah, if the liar believes that lying and pedophilia are equivalent--then they are probably a pedophile.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, if the liar believes that lying and pedophilia are equivalent--then they are probably a pedophile.


I didn't say they are.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> He will never offer evidence for any of his false claims.



Lol, you make claims that are demonstrably false, then you run away instead of being accountable for them.  It's a bit different than me saying,"oh yeah, that's a possibility" and not feeling compelled to prove it.



Lacius said:


> I didn't say they are.



Yes you did.  You said that the use of pedophilia and lying were effectively the same--that it would be asinine to consider one to be more serious of an offense than the other.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Nothing to do with what you said?
> Well then...
> Let's have a conversation refresh? _shall we?_


I can forget it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If Guiliani is attracted to someone who is physically 24, and mentally 24,


There you go again, arguing that people can magically tell age against someone claiming their age. The point is that if she claimed she was 15, he assumed that was true, and went through with pursuing her sexually. You argued that that was ok anyway since he's old and probably isn't getting laid anyway, so he deserves to rape an assumed minor. Do you really want me to quote you saying this?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> There you go again, arguing that people can magically tell age against someone claiming their age.



That's not my argument.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You do know that pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent/minors..


Holy shit....you didn't just literally use the line that every pedo in the world literally uses when trying to defend the act, did you?....dude....just stop before this gets any worse for you. 



tabzer said:


> If Guiliani is attracted to someone who is physically 24, and mentally 24, then that is not pedophilia. People can read what I wrote, but for some reason I feel compelled to point out that when you use quotations like that, that a search using the site functions will point to you as being the only person to have said it.



That is implying that he actually knew her age, which he didn't. 

Even if you go with "I don't know what was going on through his head" it clearly wasn't anything good, the dude saw some young, attractive girl who, as far as he knew was 15,  and was taking her up to his private room for god knows what. Any person with any decency would have declined that and there is no good excuse for it whatsoever. 

And yes it is the same as To Catch a predator or when people bust others for trying to meet up with minors as well. If they think that it is someone young and their first thought it is "Hmm I am going to try to take them somewhere private because I might get to do sexual things with them" is automatically fucked in the head. 

Sitting there and trying to defend it or rationalize it in any shape or form while excusing it just makes you look bad.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's not my argument.


It literally is, though. You're also assuming that you know his thoughts and intentions.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Holy shit....you didn't just literally use the line that every pedo in the world literally uses when trying to defend the act, did you?....dude....just stop before this gets any worse for you.


I don't know every pedo in the world.  I don't think I know any.  I'll trust your expertise.


SonowRaevius said:


> who, as far as he knew was 15


The crux of my argument that is not the case.


SonowRaevius said:


> Sitting there and trying to defend it or rationalize it in any shape or form while excusing it just makes you look bad.


Thanks for caring.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol, you make claims that are demonstrably false, then you run away instead of being accountable for them.  It's a bit different than me saying,"oh yeah, that's a possibility" and not feeling compelled to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None of these things are true. You've made the claim that Trump could still win the election (he can't), you've made the claim that I lied (I didn't), and you've made the claim that I said lying and pedophilia were effectively the same (I didn't). Put up or shut up. Your list of blunders is getting long.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> It literally is, though. You're also assuming that you know his thoughts and intentions.


I said that nobody knows his thoughts and intentions.  I made up a possible scenario where your presumptive guilt wouldn't apply.



Lacius said:


> None of these things are true. You've made the claim that Trump could still win the election (he can't), you've made the claim that I lied (I didn't), and you've made the claim that I said lying and pedophilia were effectively the same (I didn't). Put up or shut up. Your list of blunders is getting long.


You still lie.  And I did put up.  Can't help it if you avert your eyes and shut off your brain when it happens.  Maybe the experience is just too traumatizing for you to account for it.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I said that nobody knows his thoughts and intentions.  I made up a possible scenario where your presumptive guilt wouldn't apply.
> 
> 
> You still lie.  And I did put up.  Can't help it if you avert your eyes and shut off your brain when it happens.  Maybe the experience is just too traumatizing for you to account for it.


You didn't. Tag me know when you do.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You didn't. Tag me know when you do.


What?  Are you okay?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't know every pedo in the world. I don't think I know any. I'll trust your expertise.


Nice rebuttal that essentially equates to "No U" but given your past insults and post I guess I was a fool for expecting better of you. 



tabzer said:


> The crux of my argument that is not the case.


You literally have 0 proof of that though....seriously can you show any evidence that he knew she was 24 whatsoever? 



tabzer said:


> Thanks for caring.


If you want to thank me, don't defend shitty people doing shitty things. Its absolutely ridiculous that you're trying to stick your neck out for some dude that does sleazy acts for no reason whatsoever.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What?  Are you okay?


Before my phone decided to betray me, I said tag me when you decide to put up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Nice rebuttal that essentially equates to "No U" but given your past insults and post I guess I was a fool for expecting better of you.


I'm returning what I get from you.


SonowRaevius said:


> you literally have 0 proof of that though


Another point I am making when I say that Joomin doesn't know what Giuliani is thinking.


SonowRaevius said:


> If you want to thank me, don't defend shitty people doing shitty things. Its absolutely ridiculous that you're trying to stick your neck out for some dude that does sleazy acts for no reason whatsoever.


I'm not defending people doing shitty things.  The reason Giuliani was brought up because he was because @AmandaRose thought it's perfectly okay for Biden to be a pedophile if Giuliani is one too.  Then the conversation got sidetracked into the question,"Is Giuliani really a pedophile?".  I think it's a possibility, but Joomin knows for sure.  And like @Lacius, because I don't agree with him %100, I must be "on the other side".  So delusional.  But you are like that too.  Hence what I am returning to you.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 15, 2020)

Don't spread fucking lies I never once said it was acceptable for Biden to be a pedophile. I said you guys can't go around saying he is when your presidents lawyer is a perv and the star witness to voter fraud is a convicted pedophile.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Don't spread fucking lies I never once said it was acceptable for Biden to be a pedophile. I said you guys can't go around saying he is when your presidents lawyer is a perv and the star witness to voter fraud is a convicted pedophile.


So whether or not Biden can be a pedophile hinges on other people being pedophiles.   Thanks for verifying.

But that does remind me on how the conversation shifted to the question of whether or not Giuliani is a pedophile.  While Biden doesn't need Project Veritas/Borat Moviefilm to run a sincere/authentic sting on him to expose his disgusting habits--the question was "Wtf was Giuliani thinking?"

Also, like @Lacius mentioned before... if you are going to accuse me of lying, put up or shut up.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So whether or not Biden can be a pedophile hinges on other people being pedophiles.   Thanks for verifying.


Once again that is not what I said and you know it. I'm done here goodnight.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Once again that is not what I said and you know it. I'm done here goodnight.


Put up or shut up.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So whether or not Biden can be a pedophile hinges on other people being pedophiles.   Thanks for verifying.
> 
> But that does remind me on how the conversation shifted to the question of whether or not Giuliani is a pedophile.  While Biden doesn't need Project Veritas/Borat Moviefilm to run a sincere/authentic sting on him to expose his disgusting habits--the question was "Wtf was Giuliani thinking?"
> 
> Also, like @Lacius mentioned before... if you are going to accuse me of lying, put up or shut up.


The person making the positive claim needs to put up or shut up. If you say Trump can still win because of widespread voter fraud, put up or shut up. If you say I lied about inconsequentially editing a post, put up or shut up. If you say I equated lying to pedophilia, put up or shut up. If you say AmandaRose said it was okay for Biden go be a pedophile, put up or shut up.

Are you disingenuous, or are you stupid?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Are you disingenuous, or are you stupid?



Oh surprise, another logical fallacy presented by @Lacius.  Nice of you to stick your neck out there for @AmandaRose but she is a big girl and doesn't need a man to protect her.  (her unsolicited offering)


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Put up or shut up.


Ahhh, what the cornered rat mimics to escape the trap. Like I said, you've been arguing in gotchas, but you weren't smart enough to not slip up and allow your own bias to catch yourself in a gotcha.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Oh surprise, another logical fallacy presented by @Lacius.  Nice of you to stick your neck out there for @AmandaRose but she is a big girl and doesn't need a man to protect her.  (her words)


Please tell me a.) The name of the logical fallacy, and b.) Where the logical fallacy is. The term "logical fallacy" doesn't mean "something I disagree with." It's a specific and objective thing. Please show me you aren't talking out of your ass. Thank you.

If you can't do this or concede, I don't think anyone would blame me for ignoring your future posts.

For the record, you committed the fallacy of shifting the burden of proof when you asked Amanda to put up or shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Ahhh, what the cornered rat mimics to escape the trap. Like I said, you've been arguing in gotchas, but you weren't smart enough to not slip up and allow your own basis to catch yourself in a gotcha.


What are you talking about?  Care to refute something?  Convenient for you ignore an actual argument, and then to butt in when you have nothing substantial to offer.



Lacius said:


> Please tell me a.) The name of the logical fallacy, and b.) Where the logical fallacy is. The term "logical fallacy" doesn't mean "something I disagree with." It's a specific and objective thing. Please show me you aren't talking out of your ass. Thank you.
> 
> If you can't do this or concede, I don't think anyone would blame me for ignoring your future posts.
> 
> For the record, you committed the fallacy of shifting the burden of proof when you asked Amanda to put up or shut up.


I pointed out a loaded question,  But before I pointed out your false equivalencies.  It doesn't seem to be matter if I do what you say or do not.  There is nothing to hold you accountable for your actions, as we have demonstrated.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What are you talking about?  Care to refute something?  Convenient for you ignore an actual argument, and then to butt in when you have nothing substantial to offer.


And we're now onto the denial phase. You've been trying to argue with everyone in a contradictory manor in the form of "gotchas" as a means to catch them in a state of hypocrisy and by redefining the meaning of words and statements. Only problem is that you defended pedophilia through your own hubris, and are now in a "gotcha" position. You're either an idiot who has no grasp on the context of the words you say, or you're just being straight up disingenuous and are now displaying that.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> And we're now onto the denial phase. You've been trying to argue with everyone in a contradictory manor in the form of "gotchas" as a means to catch them in a state of hypocrisy and by redefining the meaning of words and statements. Only problem is that you defended pedophilia through your own hubris, and are now in a "gotcha" position. You're either an idiot who has no grasp on the context of the words they say, or you're just being straight up disingenuous and are now displaying that.


I don't agree, but whatever makes you feel better.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't agree, but whatever makes you feel better.


"I don't agree but I agree". Choose your battles wisely, my friend, because there's always someone out there who is better than you at what you're trying to do.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What are you talking about?  Care to refute something?  Convenient for you ignore an actual argument, and then to butt in when you have nothing substantial to offer.
> 
> 
> I pointed out a loaded question,  But before I pointed out your false equivalencies.  It doesn't seem to be matter if I do what you say or do not.  There is nothing to hold you accountable for your actions, as we can have demonstrated.


It was not a loaded question. You are either being disingenuous or you are being ignorant with regard to how burden of proof works. That's a fact.

You named another logical fallacy (false equivalencies), but you didn't tell me where it was. Please try again.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> "I don't agree but I agree". Choose your battles wisely, my friend, because there's always someone out there who is better than you at what you're trying to do.


There you go again, misquoting people.  No shame.



Lacius said:


> You are either being disingenuous or you are being ignorant with regard to how burden of proof works.



No I am not.  I am honoring the customs and the language that this immediate community adheres by.  Now you are begging the question.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There you go again, misquoting people.  No shame.


That isn't a misquote. It's called reading between the lines. It's possible to ascertain the meaning behind something when that something alludes to a different meaning.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There you go again, misquoting people.  No shame.
> 
> 
> 
> No I am not.  I am honoring the customs and the language that this immediate community adheres by.  Now you are begging the question.


You can deny it, but that doesn't mean you're not wrong. I suggest you learn how the burden of proof works. The burden of proof is always on the person making the positive claim.

It's not question begging to acknowledge that you either don't know how the burden of proof works or are being disingenuous.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> That isn't a misquote. It's called reading between the lines. It's possible to ascertain the meaning behind something when that something alludes to a different meaning.



Reading between the lines doesn't involve putting something into quotes, and framing someone for them.



Joom said:


> It's possible to ascertain the meaning behind something when that something alludes to a different meaning.



That is not reading between the lines.  That is clearly an exposure of your practicing mental gymnatics.  Read what you wrote.



Lacius said:


> I suggest you learn how the burden of proof works.



I do, but you have long forgone accountability of doing that.  I'm not here to practice what you preach, let alone something that you can't measure up to yourself.



Lacius said:


> It's not question begging to acknowledge that you either don't know how the burden of proof works or are being disingenuous.



It's begging the question when you pose those as the only possible outcomes.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Reading between the lines doesn't involve putting something into quotes


Do I also need to explain what paraphrasing is to you? I'm quoting what you didn't actually say, but what you actually meant.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Reading between the lines doesn't involve putting something into quotes, and framing someone for them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've met my burden of proof. You have not. If you cannot put up, then respectfully, you can shut up.

With regard to being an idiot or disingenuous, those are the only two options.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Do I also need to explain what paraphrasing is to you?


Lol.  We all need to know what you mean by paraphrasing, because you are doing it wrong.



Joom said:


> I'm quoting what you didn't actually say, but what you actually meant.



Mind reader @Joom strikes again!



Lacius said:


> I've met my burden of proof.


No you haven't.


Lacius said:


> With regard to being an idiot or disingenuous, those are the only two options.


Put up or shut up?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  We all need to know what you mean by paraphrasing, because you are doing it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When did I not?

You argued that, per burden of proof standards, Amanda had the burden of proof. In reality, she did not make the positive claim: You did. Therefore, you are either being dishonest, or you were ignorant about how burden of proof works. There is no other option.

If you're going to argue there's another option, congratulations. You have the burden of proof again.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> We all need to know what you mean by paraphrasing, because you are doing it wrong.


You're still trying to argue in "gotchas", but failing even more miserably than before. "We" know what paraphrasing is, so I don't need to explain it to anyone else but you, apparently.

@UltraSUPRA, choose carefully where you put your likes, because you're siding with a pedophile here. You really want us to develop a worse opinion of you? You're already a white nationalist. The rung below that is pedophile.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If you're going to argue there's another option, congratulations. You have the burden of proof again.



Holy crap.  Even when I tell you what the other option is, you ignore it and carry on.  I don't need to adopt you and take care of you, but this is what you are turning "burden of proof" into.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Holy crap.  Even when I tell you what the other option is, you ignore it and carry on.  I don't need to adopt you and take care of you, but this is what you are turning "burden of proof" into.


No, he's literally just asking for proof that you can't provide.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> I need for you to be a pedophile, because if you aren't, then that must mean I am



Jeez dude.  This paraphrasing is liberating.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Holy crap.  Even when I tell you what the other option is, you ignore it and carry on.  I don't need to adopt you and take care of you, but this is what you are turning "burden of proof" into.


You didn't provide another option. Put up or shut up. I'll add this one to the list of things you can't or won't do.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You didn't provide another option. Put up or shut up. I'll add this one to the list of things you can't or won't do.





tabzer said:


> I am honoring the customs and the language that this immediate community adheres by.


That is another option which you didn't account for.  Your "list" has no meaningful command or authoritative consistency.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That is another option which you didn't account for.  Your "list" has no meaningful or authoritative consistency.


You said that, per the standards of burden of proof I was articulating, Amanda had the burden of proof. That was incorrect, and it was either because you were ignorant or disingenuous.

Your "honoring customs" post was irrelevant and did nothing to provide another option.

So, as I said, I'll add this one to the list of things you objectively and demonstrably will not provide evidence for.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You said that, per the standards of burden of proof I was articulating, Amanda had the burden of proof. That was incorrect, and it was either because you were ignorant or disingenuous.



Amanda has the burden of proof to do what?  Prove I was a lying?



Lacius said:


> Your "honoring customs" post was irrelevant and did nothing to provide another option.



That would be quite the conundrum, because you saying that would imply that everyone here is either disingenuous or idiots (or both?).


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Jeez dude.  This paraphrasing is liberating.


Lol, aren't we mad. You can change whatever is in a [QUOTE] tag all you like. It doesn't change the fact that you're being disingenuous about defending pedophilia. Sorry I paraphrased correctly, and it angered you, so you tried to do the same but incorrectly. The difference here is that you are misquoting, the thing you blamed me for. Learn what paraphrasing is if you're going to involve yourself in debate.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Lol, aren't we mad. You can change whatever is in a
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Someone is falling apart.  If you can't take it, then don't dish it.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Amanda has the burden of proof to do what?  Prove I was a liar?


You made a claim that Amanda said something she didn't. You had the burden of proof to show she said what you claimed she said. To call you a liar is to call you out on your inability to put up. You have the positive claim. You have the burden of proof. To say she does is to be ignorant or dishonest.



tabzer said:


> That would be quite the conundrum, because you saying that would imply that everyone here is either disingenuous or idiots (or both?).


I don't see how.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Someone is falling apart.  If you can't take it, then don't dish it.


I fixed it. Sorry the coding of the site autocompletes BB code. However, if you've been a forum user as long as I have, you know how to sequence break BB code. Bet you can't do it, as shown by your fail quote.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> @UltraSUPRA, choose carefully where you put your likes, because you're siding with a pedophile here. You really want us to develop a worse opinion of you? You're already a white nationalist. The rung below that is pedophile.


Funny how you're calling me a white nationalist when your side supports race-based affirmative action, letting black people enter more prestigious colleges with lower grades compared to whites because, according to other Libtards, blacks have some sort of disadvantage when it comes to intelligence.
Also, Biden has a track record of racism against blacks, pushing the Crime Bill (that Harris enforced) and saying some _very_ controversial things. Poor kids can be just as smart and talented as white kids, if you vote for Trump you ain't black, Obama was the first mainstream African American who is articulate, bright, and clean, you can't go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts without a slight Indian accent, Biden doesn't want his kids growing up in a racial jungle...hell, I'm pretty sure he said the N-word.
But you already know that. Your goal wasn't to get Biden in, it was to get Orange Man out because Orange Man Bad. Once he's in, all you have to do is keep a close eye on him and screech at him when he does something bad. You said it yourself a few pages back.
How did I respond?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You made a claim that Amanda said something she didn't.



She did.  She even was nice enough to come back and verify it.



Lacius said:


> I don't see how.


That's because you are either being disingenuous or an idiot.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Funny how you're calling me a white nationalist when your side supports race-based affirmative action, letting black people enter more prestigious colleges with lower grades compared to whites because, according to other Libtards, blacks have some sort of disadvantage when it comes to intelligence.
> Also, Biden has a track record of racism against blacks, pushing the Crime Bill (that Harris enforced) and saying some _very_ controversial things. Poor kids can be just as smart and talented as white kids, if you vote for Trump you ain't black, Obama was the first mainstream African American who is articulate, bright, and clean, you can't go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts without a slight Indian accent, Biden doesn't want his kids growing up in a racial jungle...hell, I'm pretty sure he said the N-word.
> But you already know that. You're goal wasn't to get Biden in, it was to get Orange Man out because Orange Man Bad. Once he's in, all you have to do is keep a close eye on him and screech at him when he does something bad. You said it yourself a few pages back.
> How did I respond?
> View attachment 233974


Fact check: Race-based affirmative action exists because of socioeconomic challenges certain races face because of slavery and/or mistreatment of races in the past. Without it, well-off white families tend to stay well-off, while families of lower socioeconomic statuses continue to not be well-off.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> However, if you've been a forum user as long as I have, you know how to sequence break BB code. Bet you can't do it, as shown by your fail quote.



Yeah, I have trouble with it.  I just noticed it was out of character for you.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> She did.  She even was nice enough to come back and verify it.
> 
> 
> That's because you are either being disingenuous or an idiot.


She didn't. Put up or shut up.

Nothing I said implies that everyone here is either disingenuous or idiots. Put up or shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> She didn't. Put up or shut up.
> 
> Nothing I said implies that everyone here is either disingenuous or idiots. Put up or shut up.



She did.  It's right there in writing.  You are only further distracting from it and distancing it from the immediate context by carrying on.



Lacius said:


> Nothing I said implies that everyone here is either disingenuous or idiots. Put up or shut up.



Yeah, you did.  Also, already in writing.  Deflection suits you best right now.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Fact check: Race-based affirmative action exists because of socioeconomic challenges certain races face because of slavery and/or mistreatment of races in the past. Without it, well-off white families tend to stay well-off, while families of lower socioeconomic statuses continue to not be well-off.


No living man was alive back when slavery was legal in America.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No living man was alive back when slavery was legal in America.


Their families are still alive. Disadvantage begets disadvantage begets disadvantage. Affirmative action seeks to break that cycle.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Funny how you're calling me a white nationalist when your side supports race-based affirmative action, letting black people enter more prestigious colleges with lower grades compared to whites because, according to other Libtards, blacks have some sort of disadvantage when it comes to intelligence.
> Also, Biden has a track record of racism against blacks, pushing the Crime Bill (that Harris enforced) and saying some _very_ controversial things. Poor kids can be just as smart and talented as white kids, if you vote for Trump you ain't black, Obama was the first mainstream African American who is articulate, bright, and clean, you can't go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts without a slight Indian accent, Biden doesn't want his kids growing up in a racial jungle...hell, I'm pretty sure he said the N-word.
> But you already know that. You're goal wasn't to get Biden in, it was to get Orange Man out because Orange Man Bad. Once he's in, all you have to do is keep a close eye on him and screech at him when he does something bad. You said it yourself a few pages back.
> How did I respond?
> View attachment 233974


Hoo boy, did I hit a nerve? Nice irrelevant diatribe that shows what an ignorant, racist piece of shit you are. Anyway, I'll leave this here for you since you want to argue affirmative action for whatever reason and REEEEEEEEE about irrelevant points.


"The white man needs to stop giving black people opportunities! They have enough!" No wonder your Porky Pig ass only had two Twitch views before me. Now you have three. You lack so much confidence in what you believe in or cherish to even draw a viewer base. Like we expect a 15 year old, homeschooled, obese, white, ginger child to have an understanding of how the world works.

See how that feels? This is what you're doing to others. What's sadder is that I know your parents have filled you with hate and ignorance since you don't go to a public school.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Hoo boy, did I hit a nerve? Nice irrelevant diatribe that shows what an ignorant, racist piece of shit you are. Anyway, I'll leave this here for you since you want to argue affirmative action for whatever reason and REEEEEEEEE about irrelevant points.



Cry more.


Joom said:


> "The white man needs to stop giving black people opportunities! They have enough!"


I believe in equal opportunity. It's clear that you don't. If you can only hire one person, and you have two options, and one is a white guy with years of experience and the other is a black guy who just got out of college, who do you hire? If it's the white guy who just got out of college and the black guy with years of experience, who do you hire?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Cry more.
> 
> I believe in equal opportunity. It's clear that you don't. If you can only hire one person, and one is a white guy with years of experience and the other is a black guy who just got out of college, who do you hire? If it's the white guy who just got out of college and the black guy with years of experience, who do you hire?


The status quo without affirmative action isn't equal opportunity.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The status quo without affirmative action isn't equal opportunity.


Put up or shut up.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@Joom, I think it's funny how you glanced over the whole thing about Biden.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I believe in equal opportunity. It's clear that you don't. If you can only hire one person, and you have two options, and one is a white guy with years of experience and the other is a black guy who just got out of college, who do you hire?


This doesn't happen in real life, you understand this, right? You're hoping that I'll say "the black guy", but this is a totally unrealistic scenario. I know you're not of legal age to work a job, so you hope your Twitch will kick off, and you're going to continue living with your parents until you're 30 all the while blaming a lack of opportunity because your uselessness can't get you a job, but this isn't reality, and I don't engage in whataboutism. :")



UltraSUPRA said:


> @Joom, I think it's funny how you glanced over the whole thing about Biden.


I'm not a Biden supporter. That's why. Any time a conservative tries to argue "b-b-b-but Biden", I just don't care because I don't care about Biden.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> I'm not a Biden supporter. That's why.


I know.


UltraSUPRA said:


> But you already know that. Your goal wasn't to get Biden in, it was to get Orange Man out because Orange Man Bad. Once he's in, all you have to do is keep a close eye on him and screech at him when he does something bad. You said it yourself a few pages back.
> How did I respond?
> View attachment 233974


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

I never said orange man bad. You did. You honestly think I'm not going to screech at Biden? Get over yourself already, kid.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> I never said orange man bad. You did. You honestly think I'm not going to screech at Biden? Get over yourself already, kid.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


>


Then I'm evil for trampling all over your weak ass arguments. Become a taxpayer, and then we'll talk.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Then I'm evil for trampling all over your weak ass arguments. Become a taxpayer, and then we'll talk.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 233979


The fuck even is your point? This is what I meant by "become a taxpayer". People with jobs pay income tax on top of other taxes. You're not a taxpayer by adhering to forcibly imposed sales tax, you dunce. Like I said, I expect your weirdo helicopter parents to float you until your 30s, or until they die. Whichever comes first.

Also:
>12 open tabs and Shazam

Christ.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> The fuck even is your point? This is what I meant by "become a taxpayer". People with jobs pay income tax on top of other taxes. You're not a taxpayer by adhering to forcibly imposed sales tax, you dunce.


I know what you meant. That's the joke. If you don't want to debate, I'll wait until the next Stonetoss comic comes out.


Joom said:


> Also:
> >12 open tabs and Shazam
> 
> Christ.


You got me.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I know what you meant. That's the joke. If you don't want to debate, I'll wait until the next Stonetoss comic comes out.


Debate what? I don't even know what you're trying to argue here because you trying to throw up sales tax as a point is completely nonsensical. Like, any time you trail off with a completely irrelevant point or some diatribe that's irrelevant to the original argument, I have to ask myself if I took acid or not. That's how bad you are at this. You make me question if I'm on hard drugs or not.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Debate what? I don't even know what you're trying to argue here because you trying to throw up sales tax as a point is completely nonsensical. Like, any time you trail off with a completely irrelevant point or some diatribe that's irrelevant to the original argument, I have to ask myself if I took acid or not. That's how bad you are at this. You make me question if I'm on hard drugs or not.


If anything, you're the one derailing these topics. You called me a racist, I pointed out that your policies and candidates were racist, you said that you don't like the candidate you voted for and you were merely using him as a puppet (using the weak for your own gain), I mentioned that evil is when you use the weak for your own gain, you said I'm not old enough to understand society because I'm "not a taxpayer", I made a joke about how sales tax is a thing meaning I am a "taxpayer", you pointed out that my joke has no bearing on the conversation because "taxpayer" specifically means income tax, I mentioned that I already knew, and now you're saying that I'm the one getting off-topic. We went from racism to ableism to taxes. I'm pretty sure that you feeling like you're on acid isn't a problem with what I'm saying. It's probably because you actually are.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You called me a racist


Are you not? You were arguing race whataboutism, and you're in favor of nationalism.


UltraSUPRA said:


> I pointed out that your policies and candidates were racist


No you didn't. There is no socialist candidate, and I've already said I don't support Biden, and am fully aware of his atrocities toward ethnic groups.


UltraSUPRA said:


> you voted for and you were merely using him as a puppet (using the weak for your own gain),


The "weak" won, so your point is invalid here. The weak can't win if they're weak. I voted for Biden because influencing socialist policy is a lot easier under a bourgeois democracy than under fascistic rule. If you had been paying attention to my socialist ramblings, you'd know I've already said this.


UltraSUPRA said:


> I mentioned that evil is when you use the weak for your own gain,


You're still implying that the weak can win, which is an absolute oxymoron. Trump would be the weak in this scenario, and I didn't vote for him.


UltraSUPRA said:


> you said I'm not old enough to understand society because I'm "not a taxpayer"


No, I said you weren't old enough to work a job legally, therefore not making you a legal taxpayer, and entirely unqualified to make statements on taxpayers.

The rest of your post is you going "IT WAS JUST A JOKE DAWG, CHILL OUT". Fuck you.



Spoiler: An UltraSUPRA joke. If you're confused, don't worry, I am too.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> The "weak" won, so your point is invalid here. The weak can't win if they're weak.


The weak can win if they are lucky. Biden has dementia.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> Yeah, them pesky soyboys relying on things like facts and evidence! If only those authenticity-based sheeple can open their third eyes and only accept what Q and the 45th tells them only then will they realize the truth!



I think you have Liberals and Conservatives mixed up as we don't bark and sit on command.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I think you have Liberals and Conservatives mixed up as we don't bark and sit on command.


This coming from a bootlicker and someone whose party said "stand back and stand by". Yeahwhateveryousaybruh.


UltraSUPRA said:


> The weak can win if they are lucky. Biden has dementia.


This is the biggest "no u" I've ever seen. Just say "I lost" instead of making yourself look like an even bigger idiot. You call us weak, but you bend so easily. Like, you *still* feel it necessary to make a Biden comment because you have nothing else. I. Don't. Care. About. Biden. Also, there's no such thing as luck. That's loser talk. For the weak to overcome the strong means the strong is weak and the weak is strong.


----------



## notimp (Nov 15, 2020)

omgcat said:


> ironically this means corporations are guzzling renewables since they are cheaper than FF sources across the board now.


Wrong, they are in energy production, they arent overall (storage, transportation, initial investment, 'stability' (have to build gas power plants, or more storage and much more capacity (during the day) for night time)). edit: And they arent profit wise, since you need an efficiency increase in consumption as the first (most cost effective) step - of a green transition, (and you can make a whole lot of oil byproducts, after refining, that you can 'sell'). Thats why there is a racket going on, f*cking over the public.

You need something akin to a CO2 tax (making fossile fuels increasingly more expensive) for corp investment/innovation to shift. And since everyone is talking 'how important' but nobody is putting up initial investment (partly because more efficiency increases are expected in production) - you now have literal initiatives that nudge your parents to move into green investing. (At least in the EU.)

Looking at that, makes me sick.

You have to look at investment size of energy companies. Those are the ones that are supposed to shift bigtime. But currently they are still waiting for others to build electrical grids (in Europe first step is to make them larger, for load balancing (cheaper renewable energy from the south, and also to make them smart (make the user a slave to apps that tell them when they can wash clothes (just as a thought model  ).), and put up R&D for solar, f.e.
Eventually they will shift - but in the US this could take another 20 years.

(And some of this will be offset by 'live a little less' initiatives. (Dont own a car, dont buy goods, dont believe in production of physical goods, circular economies...))


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> But claiming widespread voter fraud with no evidence before all the votes are even in is fine, right?



While there is evidence of voter fraud I do agree Trump should have waited for the end count before challenging the numbers. It makes no sense for the Liberals/Democrats or Conservatives to act before the count is done.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> While there is evidence of voter fraud I do agree Trump should waited for the end count before challenging the numbers. It makes no sense for the Liberals/Democrats or Conservatives to act before the count is done.


Hell just froze over. A Trumper just back pedalled. The current evidence is very minuscule. I'll admit that there's been fraud, but on an incredibly small scale. One of the most famous examples is the Republican woman trying to vote twice by claiming she never voted to begin with. There's also the supposed social worker in Texas, but I have yet to find a verifiable source on this. Even then, she supposedly only interfered with some 140 votes or so, which isn't indicative of widespread fraud. Though, I feel these small time publications pulled a mugshot from a Facebook post and used it to create a story seeing as the reverse image lookup only returns their articles. The city of the county I live in also loves to spotlight people for petty crimes on their Facebook (my arrest photo is out there, good luck finding it), which is an abhorrent practice, but anyone could have found a picture of someone from the weekly beat report and used some poor soul to spin up a story of voter fraud. A black woman from a small Texas town isn't going to pursue slander litigation, so she'd be the perfect scapegoat to push a voter fraud narrative for a conservative media consumption demographic.

Fraud aside, though, what about the systemic voter suppression? Like closing polling locations in minority neighborhoods and delisting black voters? I know for a fact that this has happened, because I know people from Atlanta who voted in the primaries who had to re-register to vote in the election.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Hell just froze over. A Trumper just back pedalled. The current evidence is very minuscule. I'll admit that there's been fraud, but on an incredibly small scale. One of the most famous examples is the Republican woman trying to vote twice by claiming she never voted to begin with. There's also the supposed social worker in Texas, but I have yet to find a verifiable source on this. Even then, she supposedly only interfered with some 140 votes or so, which isn't indicative of widespread fraud. Though, I feel these small time publications pulled a mugshot from a Facebook post and used it to create a story seeing as the reverse image lookup only returns their articles. The city of the county I live in also loves to spotlight people for petty crimes on their Facebook (my arrest photo is out there, good luck finding it), which is an abhorrent practice, but anyone could have found a picture of someone from the weekly beat report and used some poor soul to spin up a story of voter fraud. A black woman from a small Texas town isn't going to pursue slander litigation, so she'd be the perfect scapegoat to push a voter fraud narrative for a conservative media consumption demographic.
> 
> Fraud aside, though, what about the systemic voter suppression? Like closing polling locations in minority neighborhoods and delisting black voters? I know for a fact that this has happened, because I know people from Atlanta who voted in the primaries who had to re-register to vote in the election.



I doubt that there's widespread fraud in this election or widespread systemic voter suppression. It's not racist to require an identity to vote. Frankly, if you think minorities are too stupid to obtain a ID and register to vote then stand in line then you're a racist fuck.

As for the examples of fraud you listed, I'm not aware of anything more than Trump claiming there is fraud as I haven't looked into it myself. Just like the normal news for the past 4 years I would highly question the validity of any news that comes from left learning sources. Most of the time it's fabricated and completely made up.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's not racist to require an identity to vote.


That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm also not claiming racism. I'm talking about voters who were already registered to vote, and voted in the primaries, but had to re-register for the election. I stated this. I'm also talking about polling locations in majority black and Hispanic communities being shut down, thus resulting in these polling locations with 6+ hour long lines. It's voter suppression, plain and simple. I'm not arguing for unregistered voters, which is quite obvious, and it's disingenuous of you to imply so.

@UltraSUPRA, go to bed. I'm gonna call your dad if you don't.


----------



## notimp (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I doubt that there's widespread fraud in this election or widespread systemic voter suppression.


True, there is wide spread systemic voter suppression. Now - how would you do that? By what metrics could you identify, what a person would vote, before they are voting?

Race. education level (attention, when targeting, better target a small group - or it becomes too obvious, so students are better, than people with college diplomas), ...

Trailerpark ownage? (Sorry  ) Remember, that you dont have 'owns a trailerpark' in your voter records. (Same as with education level "student", but you could infer that from age and address).

So which group - was suppressed by democrats. At least give us that. The Trump campaign ought to have told you by now. Surely.

(But strangely, all they are saying is 'dead people' (which would be fraud, not suppression) - which is an issue in voter registries in general (they arent always as up to date - in terms of delisting people when they died), but not one that becomes a huge problem, also generally speaking.

Because - to 'abuse' that, you would need to make a fake ID, under the name of a known person thats dead, but not delisted, and then vote twice (or 50 times, with different IDs in different voting centers), which is a 'manipulation method' that doesnt scale.

And its also not that likely - that a dead person sill has an active home address (what would landlord do?), someone knows about and demands a mail voting slip, and then fishes that one out of... That also doesnt scale - to 'systemic fraud potential'.

If we condense this 'dead people' is an explanation for the stupid. (If not followed up with specifics) - which if we sum that up, means there is someone trying to pull a racket, to rile some people up, over not that much.

Oh, and please - provide us with an indication, which voter groups you would suppress - as democrats. Because the easier to target groups (blacks, students), all vote the wrong way.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about voters who were already registered to vote, and voted in the primaries, but had to re-register for the election. I stated this. I'm also talking about polling locations in majority black and Hispanic communities being shut down, thus resulting in these polling locations with 6+ hour long lines. It's voter suppression, plain and simple. I'm not arguing for unregistered voters, which is quite obvious, and disingenuous of you to imply so.



I stated nothing disingenuous as most Liberal Democrats want illegal aliens to vote for their side and if history is any indication voter fraud usually comes from the left. So you're local polling stations had some issues you think are voter suppression, but having to wait in a long line isn't suppression. Maybe there's some other reason why some of your local polls had to close. There could also be a simple reason why some people had to re-register to vote. The thing is for it to be widespread it'd have to happen in more locations than just your local place as those sorts of issues didn't happen where I live and voted. You also claimed in your previous post that I'm a Trump supporting backpedaler, but to backpedal I'd first have to have taken the opposite stance on the issue and that's not something I had done.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I stated nothing disingenuous as most Liberal Democrats want illegal aliens to vote


And here I was thinking we could finally have a civil discussion. @UltraSUPRA, here's the imaginary boogieman I was talking about. See this guy? He just completely discredited his own argument by creating strawmen.

Anyway, I'm tired of doing this. We're not discussing anything that is actually beneficial to the advancement of our country as a whole, so I'm out.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> True, there is wide spread systemic voter suppression. Now - how would you do that? By what metrics could you identify, what a person would vote, before they are voting?
> 
> Race. education level (attention, when targeting, better target a small group - or it becomes to obvious, so students are better, than people with college diplomas), ...
> 
> ...



California will you vote in local elections without having to be an American citizen and with their stance on illegal immigration I wouldn't doubt some dead Democrats have risen from the ashes to vote. California also allows illegals to get drivers licenses so that could contribute to fraud.


----------



## emigre (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I doubt that there's widespread fraud in this election or widespread systemic voter suppression. It's not racist to require an identity to vote. Frankly, if you think minorities are too stupid to obtain a ID and register to vote then stand in line then you're a racist fuck.



Voter suppression is well established in the US. There is evidence that voter ID rules in the US disproportionately disadvantage minority groups. That's the real issue with US elections rather than unproven fraud. THE SCLU have a decent page on this.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

emigre said:


> Voter suppression is well established in the US. There is evidence that voter ID rules in the US disproportionately disadvantage minority groups. That's the real issue with US elections rather than unproven fraud. THE SCLU have a decent page on this.



Having to show an ID when you register to vote is not disproportionately hurting minority groups. All that is required is to obtain an ID, show that ID when you register to vote and then go stand in line and vote. You claiming minorities are too stupid to do what the rest of us have to do just shows how racist you are against said minorities.


----------



## notimp (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> California will you vote in local elections without having to be an American citizen and with their stance on illegal immigration I wouldn't doubt some dead Democrats have risen from the ashes to vote. California also allows illegals to get drivers licenses so that could contribute to fraud.


The dead people voting problem doesnt scale. See above. (When you need ID.)

So lets say in your scenario, this is a potential reason, why 'they' would get california.

California isnt challenged in terms of outcome I believe.

So find me a reason for four states (that arent California) (best a reason they have in common), that could be exploited - systemically.

edit: Also 'non americans allowed to vote' still doesnt mean, they wouldnt have to have ID. Which is why this  doest match up with the 'dead people' scenario.


----------



## emigre (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Having to show an ID when you register to vote is not disproportionately hurting minority groups. All that is required is to obtain an ID, show that ID when you register to vote and then go stand in line and vote. You claiming minorities are too stupid to do what the rest of us have to do just shows how racist you are against said minorities.



I am an ethnic minority...

Also bravo, not reading the link which clearly outlines this.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Having to show an ID when you register to vote is not disproportionately hurting minority groups. All that is required is to obtain an ID, show that ID when you register to vote and then go stand in line and vote. You claiming minorities are too stupid to do what the rest of us have to do just shows how racist you are against said minorities.


Obvious troll is obvious. Also, imagine joining a video game forum just to talk politics. Check @gregory-samba's post history. Pretty sure he's a sock puppet for someone else.


----------



## notimp (Nov 15, 2020)

Oh, and let me answer one of my questions. 'How would you suppress votes - if you dont have groups that are that easy to target?'

Answer: You make groups that are easy to target.
Which is what gerrymandering is about.

You custom design voting districts, that have nothing to do with real districts (how state districts borders look like), by 'who is likely to vote for one party ('where do the rich people live')' - and then you suppress the other group. (Less voting centers, less voting booths, ...)

Issue . Republicans dominated that racket since inception. They went for it, while Dems always were like - who cares, we got multi ethnicity, which is a group thats growing. As it turns out, they dont. But hey...


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

emigre said:


> I am an ethnic minority...
> 
> Also bravo, not reading the link which clearly outlines this.



There's nothing magical about voting. I don't need to read your garbage link when the process is very simple. You register to vote with your ID then go vote. It's that damned simple. I don't need to read long drawn out opinions highlighting why racist people think minorities are too stupid to follow a simple process.

I also don't care what color your skin is as any color can be racist against another.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You register to vote with your ID then go vote


Even though there's a grace period between registering and the ability to vote in many states. You know this, right? In Alabama, we're not allowed to vote until after 14 business days upon registering. Anyway, I've already reported you for being a racist ("minorities are too stupid to vote right") and an obvious sock puppet. Every one of your posts are in this section, and you don't involve yourself in video game discussion at all, which is the point of this site. You also have Mel Gibson as your avatar, so you just reek of gym sock troll. I hate that I called you out as a troll a month ago and am still arguing with your bullshit.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't need to read long drawn out opinions highlighting why racist people think minorities are too stupid to follow a simple process.





Joom said:


> I've already reported you for being a racist ("minorities are too stupid to vote right") and an obvious sock puppet.



What he said wasn't racist.  He is saying how people are racist by thinking like that.  It's pretty easy to read.  I don't know how that can confuse someone.

Ah.  You need sleep.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Even though there's a grace period between registering and the ability to vote in many states. You know this, right? In Alabama, we're not allowed to vote until after 14 business days upon registering. Anyway, I've already reported you for being a racist ("minorities are too stupid to vote right") and an obvious sock puppet. Every one of your posts are in this section, and you don't involve yourself in video game discussion at all, which is the point of this site. You also have Mel Gibson as your avatar, so you just reek of gym sock troll. I hate that I called you out as a troll a month ago and am still arguing with your bullshit.



Reporting lies doesn't make them the truth.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> What he said wasn't racist.  He is saying how people are racist by thinking like that.  It's pretty easy to read.  I don't know how that can confuse someone.
> 
> Ah.  You need sleep.



Indeed. I'm saying if you think minorities are too dumb to figure out how to vote then *you* are being racist against minorities.

Comprehension skills, much?


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What he said wasn't racist.





gregory-samba said:


> Indeed. I'm saying if you think minorities are too dumb


Implications imply implications. Transparent projection doesn't protect one from blatant racism. Nobody said this except you.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Implications imply implications. Transparent projection doesn't protect one from blatant racism. Nobody said this except you.



You're the one going around making up lies and threatening me. I can't help it if you don't like the fact I'm a Conservative and am only interested in this section of the forums., The thing is I don't care if you like me or not. I'm not breaking any rules and you are, but you won't find me clicking on the "report" link.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Implications imply implications



Do you think "minorities are too dumb"?  Because that would be racist.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're the one going around making up lies and threatening me. I can't help it if you don't like the fact I'm a Conservative and am only interested in this section of the forums., The thing is I don't care if you like me or not. I'm not breaking any rules and you are, but you won't find me clicking on the "report" link.


It's not that I don't like you for being conservative. I don't like you because you're trying to project your inherent racism onto me.





You're saying minorities are too stupid to vote by projecting this belief on me for defending against voter suppression. Try harder.


tabzer said:


> Do you think "minorities are too dumb"?  Because that would be racist.


He said that, not me. See above.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Do you think "minorities are too dumb"?  Because that would be racist.



I'm not sure about him, but *I don't think minorities can't figure out how to vote* as where I live white people are a minority and there sure were a lot of different people with different skin tones in line waiting to vote. The Liberal left would benefit by not requiring a valid ID to register/vote because then anyone could lie and vote for them. You need an ID to buy beer, tobacco, marijuana, to drive a car and to get into a night club. You wait in line at the grocery store. These things aren't complicated and to say minorities couldn't figure them out means *you are racist against those minorities*.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

*Snip*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> These things aren't complicated and to say minorities couldn't figure them out means *you are racist against those minorities*.


Where did I say that? Please point it out. You implied this when I mentioned voter suppression.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> That doesn't even make sense, you halfwit.


You don't need to convince me that the logic is flawed.  Now convince me that Guiliani is a pedophile, unless you are the one that's projecting.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

joom said:
			
		

> Where did I say that? Please point it out. You implied this when I mentioned voter suppression.



"You" applied to anyone that thinks minorities are too dumb to figure out how to vote. If that doesn't apply to you then you ignore it because it wasn't addressed to you. Reading comprehension 1st grade.

Sorry bud, you need to learn how to read before I get wrapped up in your far stretching of truths. "You" in that quote wasn't referring to a single person. Sigh, I've got a feeling a mod is just going to come here and delete this petty bickering so it would be pointless to continue to feed the troll (yes, I'm referring to you this time).


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

*Snip*

I proved Guliani was a pedophile?  Being wrongly accused of being a pedophile or a pedophile sympathizer is offensive and hurts my feelings.  I know that was your intention, but based on this conversation you are having, you are saying that these kinds of projections are evidence of the person doing the projecting being guilty.  So there's something there?  You seem to think that people can be tricked into being a pedophile by lying about someone's age after attraction is established.  My latest post was to show the ridiculousness of it.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I proved Guliani was a pedophile? Being wrongly accused of being a pedophile or a pedophile sympathizer is offensive


Then don't be one.


tabzer said:


> Imagine being in this situation. A 24 year old woman comes up to you and starts trying to seduce you. She tells you that she is 15 and you immediately know she must be crazy. You cannot help but to feel sexually attracted to her, despite her obvious lie. You are an old man and may never see action again, but you feel so awkward about the presentation, and morally conflicted on how to proceed. "Let's take it slow," you think to yourself. "It doesn't make sense, but as a good lawyer, I will get to the bottom of this."


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Then don't be one.


I'm not a pedophile and you call me one.  I have demonstrated how you are mincing my words before and now you are saying that I deserve to die in a fire.  Ouch.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It says right there that the 15 year old claim was an obviously a lie.  The character in my prose knew she was not 15, and he wanted to find out the nature behind that lie.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm not a pedophile and you call me one.  I have demonstrated how you are mincing my words before and now you are saying that I deserve to die in a fire.  Ouch.


Yeah, anyone who goes on a power trip to hurt children, or those that sympathize with these abusers, deserve to die in a fire.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

I blame your failed education.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It says right there that the 15 year old claim was an obviously a lie.


To who? You're still assuming people can magically determine this within your hypothetical.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

I care about keeping this world a good place for children.  I'd like to be confident enough to raise children rightly.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I blame your failed education.


Mastered in psychology and minored in biochem with a proclivity toward information security and UNIX systems <3


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> To who? You're still assuming people can magically determine this within your hypothetical.


It's not magic to be suspicious of a lie.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I care about keeping this world a good place for children.  I'd like to be confident enough to raise children rightly.



He's accusing me of being a drug addict, but then he goes off on tirades over stuff he's misreading and misinterpreting. When I used "you" in the reply he quoted, not only was I not replying to him but "you" meant anyone who would think minorities can't figure out how to vote by themselves under the current rule set. I think he's either (1) been up too long (2) is high as fuck or both.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's not magic to be suspicious of a lie.


You're assuming one has the wherewithal to have these suspicions, which Giuliani obviously didn't. Do you know why I made my court analogy by now? If you were a defense lawyer, a judge would laugh in your face.


gregory-samba said:


> He's accusing me of being a drug addict, but then he goes off on tirades over stuff he's misreading and misinterpreting.


The pot's calling the kettle black, huh?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> Mastered in psychology and minored in biochem with a proclivity toward information security and UNIX systems <3



The damage of a faulty primary schooling is very hard to reverse, despite one's sense of success in following orders.



Joom said:


> You're assuming one has the wherewithal to have these suspicions, which Giuliani obviously didn't. Do you know why I made my court analogy by now? If you were a defense lawyer, a judge would laugh in your face



You are cherry picking "real facts" out of a work of complete fiction.  I don't know what Guiliani went through.  I posted a completely fabricated work of fiction to show an example of how the Guiliani situation could be more complex than it appears on the surface.  In my fiction, the character was not a pedophile.

Giuliani could be a pedophile.  I don't know.  But it's a little contradictory for you to say that the character can't know someone's age, unless by magic--yet you know for sure what Giuliani was thinking.  I don't know what experience you have had, but for me It's easier to determine someone's age by their physique and mentality than it is to read someone's mind.  Not saying that the latter is impossible.  It's a generalization.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The damage of a faulty primary schooling is very hard to reverse, despite one's sense of success in following orders.


What are you even talking about? You're babbling again.


tabzer said:


> I don't know what Guiliani went through.


You claimed to with your analogy.


tabzer said:


> I posted a completely fabricated work of fiction to show an example of how the Guiliani situation could be more complex than it appears on the surface.


You mean you posted an analogy that sympathizes with pedophiles. You see this @gregory-samba? Your only support here sympathizes with kiddy diddlers. Kinda like Giuliani. How fittingly ironic.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> You claimed to with your analogy.



The analogy was a possible scenario, not a claim of what actually happened.  But please explain how you seem to know exactly what Guilani was thinking and why.  "Magic?"  If you think my analogy is flawed, it doesn't mean I support pedophilia.  I am reluctant to assume Guialini is a pedophile based on a post production promotion of the new Borat movie.



Joom said:


> You mean you posted an analogy that sympathizes with pedophiles.


No.  The analogy was about someone being caught up in a strange situation, similar to Guilani's--which seems like a cruel trick.  It had nothing to do with sympathizing or encouraging sympathy with child abusers.

I mean, I think you wrongly drew equivalence between "To catch a predator" and this Borat scene.  In to catch a predator, you have people who seek out sexual relationships with people, thinking they are minors--to the point that they basically sign a confession before they even see the actor/actress.  In the Borat scene, it seems like Giuliani was placed in a very confusing situation with someone he could have thought was older than what they were saying--(if they even said it, I don't know) but there seems to be doubt surrounding how/if/when/what order the information was delivered.  It's even possible the Giuliani was a willing participant in a movie sketch with Borat.  I don't know a lot about how Sascha manages to get people to look so ridiculous.  It's uncanny.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> He's accusing me of being a drug addict, but then he goes off on tirades over stuff he's misreading and misinterpreting. When I used "you" in the reply he quoted, not only was I not replying to him but "you" meant anyone who would think minorities can't figure out how to vote by themselves under the current rule set. I think he's either (1) been up too long (2) is high as fuck or both.


I have trouble telling if it is just trolling to him or if he's just an abusive person in general.


----------



## Joom (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No. The analogy was about someone being caught up in a strange situation


"Strange" meaning pedophillic?


tabzer said:


> Giuliani was placed in a very confusing situation


You're still making excuses for him.


tabzer said:


> to the point that they basically sign a confession


What does it mean to "basically sign a confession"?


tabzer said:


> In the Borat scene


Do you not think he signed release documents as well? It's why his actions were legally displayed through Amazon's streaming service.


tabzer said:


> If you think my analogy is flawed, it doesn't mean I support pedophilia.


Then maybe don't make a flawed argument that sounds like pedophilia. You trying to put me in Giuliani's shoes andc saying "imagine yourself as an old man in this situation" doesn't help.


tabzer said:


> I mean, I think you wrongly drew equivalence between "To catch a predator" and this Borat scene.


How? They both used bait actors to suss out a sexual predator.


tabzer said:


> But it's a little contradictory for you to say that the character can't know someone's age, unless by magic--yet you know for sure what Giuliani was thinking.


I have no idea what "character" you're talking about. I'm also a psychologist, and with how transparent Giuliani is in his actions, it's easy to form conclusions through deductive reasoning and his celebrity status.


tabzer said:


> I have trouble telling if it is just trolling to him or if he's just an abusive person in general.


It's the latter. I'm a hate machine, obviously.


----------



## g00s3y (Nov 15, 2020)

Trump supporters crying like snowflakes, it's hilarious.

Bunch of trashy, racist, white people upset because the racist they voted in office isn't going to be there anymore.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Joom said:


> "Strange" meaning pedophillic?



No.  As in suspicious.



Joom said:


> How? They both used bait actors to suss out a sexual predator.



In one, where prosecution is successful, it is because they displayed unquestionable intent in soliciting a minor, and have even been on record stating as such.  In Borat, they try to make it look that way with theatrics and post-production editing.



Joom said:


> What does it mean to "basically sign a confession"?



Such as chat dialogues where the person posing as a minor says that they are a minor, and the predator says,"that's what I am soliciting."



Joom said:


> I have no idea what "character" you're talking about.


The character in my fiction that was not Giuliani, but was meant to show how Giuliani's situation could have been like.



Joom said:


> I'm also a psychologist



Would you be willing to stake your professional career and testify against Giuliani? 




Joom said:


> It's the latter.



Well.  It'd be nice if you can get some proper support before you seriously hurt someone close to you instead of just trying to hurt random people on the internet.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 15, 2020)

Oh my god are you *still* on about whether or not "old man makes advances on actress who is playing a role as if she were underage" constitutes engaging in pedophilic behavior?

Because it kinda is, specifically in the Borat/Rudy situation. Look up some "to catch a predator" if you've never seen that tactic used before.

No amount of "she seemed old enough/she's actually old enough" is gonna be holding up to that. 

The argument of "Rudy doesn't get enough action" is uh... Even worse and really sounds like you're defending pedophiles, cuz that's what it is.

Good grief.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Put up or shut up.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> @Joom, I think it's funny how you glanced over the whole thing about Biden.


The racial wealth gap is a heavily studied thing. To deny it exists is to live in a fantasy world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_inequality_in_the_United_States


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Oh my god are you *still* on about whether or not "old man makes advances on actress who is playing a role as if she were underage" constitutes engaging in pedophilic behavior?



I'm saying that it is possibly a misrepresentation.



Ev1l0rd said:


> Because it kinda is, specifically in the Borat/Rudy situation. Look up some "to catch a predator" if you've never seen that tactic used before.



Got an episode in mind?



Ev1l0rd said:


> No amount of "she seemed old enough/she's actually old enough" is gonna be holding up to that.



I'm lacking context to figure out what you even mean by this.



Ev1l0rd said:


> The argument of "Rudy doesn't get enough action" is uh... Even worse and really sounds like you're defending pedophiles, cuz that's what it is.
> 
> Good grief.



I framed the character as being desperate and sleezy, but explicitly not a pedophile.  The character didn't make any advances.  It ended with him intending to use his "brilliant" skills in trying to determine the truth. The narration was intended to be satirical and to also to draw attention to the moral dilemma in a staged entrapment scenario possibly falsely incriminating someone.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I framed the character as being desperate and sleezy, but explicitly not a pedophile.  The character didn't make any advances.  It ended with him intending to use his "brilliant" skills in trying to determine the truth. The narration was intended to be satirical and to also to draw attention to the moral dilemma in a staged entrapment scenario possibly falsely incriminating someone.



By the looks of it the people you're arguing with don't have the ability or are allowed by their peers to judge the scene correctly. The entire purpose and intent is lost on them. There's "what they get out of it" and then "what the author meant" and the latter is completely lost on them.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 15, 2020)

@tabzer You want to dance. we can dance.

Tabzer's claim


tabzer said:


> Oh that's cool.  You can retroactively change the meaning and the intention of what you said by using a switch in your mind. * Too bad nothing of what you are saying has anything to do with what I've said*.



before we can get down to business. we need to establish the conversation, and background.

I was discussing the fact I found it insane that people were not listening to evidence.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Copium overdose still ongoing?
> sure does look like it.
> 
> People:"Trumps cases are being thrown out in court"
> ...




Tabzer earlier stated trump could still win before this post. More specifically, believing in the conspiracy of widespread voter fraud.



tabzer said:


> I appreciate the sincere posts.  They mean a lot to me.  I'm only conservative in this thread because I'm reluctant to say "it's finally over".*  I honestly think Trump could have a trick up his sleeve and is not as stupid as people want to say. * That makes me a Trump supporter to some people even though I don't vote.  Why do I have to belong on one side or the other?  I hate everyone equally.


Earlier than this.



tabzer said:


> Looks widespread to me.


this one above was in reference to someone linking Trump making another court case.


this proves. Tabzer does believe that there is widespread voter fraud and trump could win.

Now... Let's play a game
Was tabzer told that there wasn't widespread voter fraud?
For any skeptics, or for any of those who wonder if it's real or not. It is not.
Why can I say that definitively?
https://apnews.com/article/ap-explains-fail-prove-election-fraud-d0f13ae6ca370c8716706d3f7d85659e
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/us/politics/trump-election-lawsuits.html

If you notice. A lot of Trumps court cases aren't holding up.
Why?
Well one the accusations are large, so you need large evidence to back it up, and also it would stop the vote count until investigations where finished.
When you go to a court, you must provide at least some evidence to prove that the case is real before the case even starts. Trumps lawyers, are failing to provide sufficient evidence. Causing the Judge to immediately dismiss those cases.
So... did anyone before page 79. Mention voter fraud before then?
Answer:
Yeah. He was.
both directly. And indirectly
indirectly on the same page through lacius


Lacius said:


> There is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. Put up or shut up.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html
> 
> ...


and also directly.
There was a post by Wholam (who is deleted)
linked a article with someone being charged for voter fraud. By changing how many ballots? 67
Lacius pointed out  that is voter fraud. But it isn't widespread. (and even then. also note the fraud was caught... which would also mean the votes would of been restored to the proper numbers)
Tabzer asked. which I will allow the rest of this conversation to play out.



tabzer said:


> How many of those does it take?





Lacius said:


> Widespread voter fraud would perhaps be something large enough to potentially tip the election.
> 
> Trump won Texas by 647,076 votes, as of this post.
> This woman registered 67 nursing home patients in Texas to vote.
> ...



So... Now with all this baggage. We can comeback to tabzer's statement which involves this specific post from me.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Copium overdose still ongoing?
> sure does look like it.
> 
> People:"Trumps cases are being thrown out in court"
> ...


This was my point. I was saying it very broadly, not targeting tabzer with this statement.



tabzer said:


> If that is a claim you are making of me, I would appreciate a reference of such a situation.  If you aren't casting shade on my personal character then you can ignore this.


He took offense, believing that I was mentioning him.



tabzer said:


> I won't count on any of this to be true, but if Trump is going to win the election, this could be a "how". @Lacius
> 
> If it is true, I can see this being very troubling for those who have already committed themselves to "knowing" the outcome.


This statement above, proves that he fits my definition of people who don't listen. On page 70 lacius told him about what wide spread voter fraud would actually be. And on this quote. page 72. He ignored.
Already not looking too good for himself.


So I finally responded to his accusation


monkeyman4412 said:


> Remember how you asked if I was attacking your character when I made the statement about you guys not listening to evidence?
> Yeah... at this point I'll let it be an attack on your character.
> We've already told you, shown you, used evidence from courts, that there is no voter fraud. We've provided our sources. We've provided arguments.
> Now here you are just wanting to make a statement, without any evidence, and then when someone asks you for evidence, you side step the issue and attack the person.
> ...


I changed no meaning, only pointing out how ignorant Tabzer was being.



tabzer said:


> Oh that's cool. * You can retroactively change the meaning and the intention of what you said by using a switch in your mind.* * Too bad nothing of what you are saying has anything to do with what I've said*.


Unfortunately Taber, I swapped no meaning. I said exactly what I wanted to say. You asked if I was attacking your character. And I decided to agree with you that I was.
Oh and also too bad everything I have to does relate to what you said.



If your going to claim my post is untrue. Then in the words of Lacius
"put up or shut up"


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> this proves. Tabzer does believe that there is widespread voter fraud and trump could win.
> 
> Now... Let's play a game
> Was tabzer told that there wasn't widespread voter fraud?
> ...



You're spot on with these comments. Regardless of what the Liberals or Conservatives think the actual court cases will be a chance for Trump to provide evidence that there is voter fraud and on a massive scale. It doesn't look too good for Trump as because he's losing these cases he's apparently been unable to provide evidence of widespread voter fraud. It really doesn't matter what either side claims as one side is full of people that take orders like sheep and refuse to ever admit they are wrong (Liberals) and then the other side that has a tendency to believe fabricated conspiracy theories (Conservatives). The actual cases and evidence that's being presented are what matters ... not some random persons opinions. So what do the cases prove thus far? Not much. As I stated before it looks like Biden is the winner. We just have to wait until the electoral college votes now for it to be official.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're spot on with these comments. Regardless of what the Liberals or Conservatives think the actual court cases will be a chance for Trump to provide evidence that there is voter fraud an on a massive scale. It doesn't look too good for Trump as because he's losing these cases he's apparently been unable to provide evidence of widespread voter fraud. It really doesn't matter what either side claims as one side is full of people that take orders like sheep and refuse to ever admit they are wrong (Liberals) and then the other side that has a tendency to believe fabricated conspiracy theories (Conservatives). The actual cases and evidence that's being presented are what matters ... not some random persons opinions.


Liberals don't broadly take orders like sheep, and they broadly admit when they're wrong as much as anybody else. Your overgeneralizations are as silly as they are boring.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Liberals don't broadly take orders like sheep, and they broadly admit when they're wrong as much as anybody else. Your overgeneralizations are as silly as they are boring.



You're a Liberal so of course you don't see what's really going on because you've been instructed not to think about such things. Liberals don't value the individual and that includes the individuals thoughts. You're instructed what to think as opposed to Conservatives that are educated on how to think for themselves. You yourself couldn't even list 1 single thing that Trump did that you agree with and this is a symptom of not being able to think for yourself as your peers would attack you and your so called friends would abandon you for doing something you're not allowed to do. Liberals try to champion their superior critical thinking skills, but you can't possibly critically think because what you're allowed to think about is only a small fraction of the possible things you could be pondering. You're literally controlled by your peers and their thought control groups.

You take orders from your news media, celebrities and politicians and would be outcast for thinking or saying certain things by the establishment and your peers. You're told what you should be outraged about, why you should be outraged and what you should do about the outrage on subjects that don't even involve you or effect your personal life. You seek to be part of a system that doesn't value individuals or independent thinking and wants a central source (Government) to control every aspect of your lives because you're too damned scared to think and take risks for yourself. You need to be included in something and unfortunately the groups of people you want to be included in are lying and cheating sinners that will turn on you the second you say something you're not allowed to or start to think for yourself.

You yourself and other Liberals on this board also will go to great lengths to not admit they are wrong even when the truth, like what I just typed, is presented to you. You're programmed to automatically label and reject things by calling them racist, *phobic or conspiracy theories. What I observe from you and others hasn't changed as you do not have the ability to think for yourself and that includes admitting when you're wrong.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're a Liberal so of course you don't see what's really going on because you've been instructed not to think about such things. Liberals don't value the individual and that includes the individuals thoughts. You're instructed what to think as opposed to Conservatives that are educated on how to think for themselves. You yourself couldn't even list 1 single thing that Trump did that you agree with and this is a symptom of not being able to think for yourself as your peers would attack you and your so called friends would abandon you for doing something you're not allowed to do. Liberals try to champion their superior critical thinking skills, but you can't possibly critically think because what you're allowed to think about is only a small fraction of the possible things you could be pondering. You're literally controlled by peers and their thought control groups.
> 
> You take orders from your news media, celebrities and politicians and would be outcast for thinking or saying certain things by the establishment and your peers. You're told what you should be outraged about, why you should be outraged and what you should do about the outrage on subjects that don't even involve you or effect your personal life. You seek to be part of a system that doesn't value individuals or independent thinking, but wants a central source (Government) to control every aspect of your lives because you're too damned scared to think and take risks for yourself. You need to be included in something and unfortunately the groups of people you want to be included in are lying and cheating sinners that will turn on you the second you say something you're not allowed to or start to think for yourself.
> 
> You yourself and other Liberals on this board also will go to great lengths to not admit they are wrong even when evidence, like what I just typed, is presented to you. You're programmed to automatically label and reject things by calling them racist, *phobic or conspiracy theories. What I observe from you and others hasn't changed as you do not have the ability to think for yourself and that includes admitting when you're wrong.


I got through one sentence and couldn't continue with the rest of this idiotic post. Obviously, nobody has instructed me to do anything. This post is hyperbolic nonsense.

I think for myself, and I did articulate one thing of Trump's I liked. Grow up and start thinking for yourself.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:
			
		

> I'm saying that it is possibly a misrepresentation.



You're really wasting your time by being manipulated by the Left's tactics of deliberately changing the subject, which was Biden likes to fondle pre-teens breasts to focus on someone else. The subject matter isn't the President's lawyer it's the probable new President Biden and the fact he's on various video feeds in which he was recorded fondling young children. He's a sicko so you shouldn't really buy into the left's deflection techniques and keep the focus on the child predator Joe Biden.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're really wasting your time by being manipulated by the Left's tactics of deliberately changing the subject, which was Biden likes to fondle pre-teens breasts to focus on someone else. The subject matter isn't the President's lawyer it's the probable new President Biden and the fact he's on various video feeds in which he was recorded fondling young children. He's a sicko so you shouldn't really buy into the left's deflection techniques and keep the focus on the child predator Joe Biden.


Fact check: Biden doesn't like to fondle pre-teen breasts.


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 15, 2020)

this entire thread....no the entire subforum went to hell over a biden win let me spell it out to trump supporters YOU LOST DEAL WITH IT LIKE AN ADULT


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

I posted this:



tabzer said:


> You are not an authority or someone that I would personally trust to decide what is and what is not evidence, as it seems as if you have already decided the outcome of all news cycles between now and Biden's anticipated transition. There is evidence. Whether that evidence is condemning, accurate, fraudulent, misconstrued, unnoticed, unsubmitted, or enough--it is the court process deciding "the truth".



And almost immediately after you posted this:



monkeyman4412 said:


> Copium overdose still ongoing?
> sure does look like it.
> 
> People:"Trumps cases are being thrown out in court"
> ...



I asked you if you were talking about me, because it seemed like you were cowardly branding me instead of addressing the heart of the argument.  It made you look more interested in reinforcing an "us vs. them" narrative than to be genuine.

My argument stands as this:

"It is posited that there was was wide spread voter fraud.  By the President.

If there was wide-spread voter fraud, then it is assumed there is evidence."

The President has higher stakes in making a claim, which makes what he is saying more tangible than @Lacius no-stakes claim that "the President is lying".  The "zero evidence" claim is just a way of saying there is no such thing as wide-spread voter fraud.

I have said that I don't know--I can't know at this moment.  I have said that @Lacius cannot be held accountable for the things he is saying, so it's just a no-stakes game for him to sound authoritative.





tabzer said:


> Looks widespread to me.





monkeyman4412 said:


> this one above was in reference to someone linking Trump making another court case.



That's false.

It was in direct response to "*Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud" *and if you paid attention to the mugshot, you could see that it is obviously a joke.



Lacius said:


> This is voter fraud, and it should be prosecuted.
> 
> I know she looks wide, but there is still no evidence of widespread voter fraud.





tabzer said:


> How many of those does it take?



This was a break from the typical pedantic argument for the sake of some comedy relief.  It just seems like you aren't really paying attention.  I'll let it slide.


----------



## smf (Nov 15, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Oh my god are you *still* on about whether or not "old man makes advances on actress who is playing a role as if she were underage" constitutes engaging in pedophilic behavior?



I'm not a fan of recount dracula, but they asked her if Rudy had been told she was underage (to be clear she isn't actually underage) and she said that she wasn't involved with booking Rudy and she didn't know what he'd been told. This implies she didn't tell him and if anyone had then I assume they would have made a big deal about it.

He didn't ask, but then again nothing seems to have happened either.



Lacius said:


> Fact check: Biden doesn't like to fondle pre-teen breasts.



How do you know that? And then again, how could he? He could say that he's not tempted to try.



gregory-samba said:


> You're instructed what to think as opposed to Conservatives that are educated on how to think for themselves.



You've got that the wrong way round. Trump tells you what to think, while liberals think it's a far more complex issue with pros and cons on both sides that need to be thought about. Conservatives don't like that, they want to copy the same decision they've always made no matter whether it makes any sense any more & get it over with. Conservatives have no patience, Trump claimed victory before enough votes had been counted for anyone to claim victory.

I was reading about the possibility that Trump could pardon himself, or he could resign and Pence become president and he could pardon Trump for any and all crimes. This is kinda worrying as he deserves to go to jail, but (and this is a big but) accepting the pardon means you accept the guilt.

I don't think Trump is big enough to accept that he is guilty of anything ever.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I posted this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The President is making the positive claim that there's widespread voter fraud. As there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, that claim is not to be believed.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 15, 2020)

smf said:


> I'm not a fan of recount dracula, but they asked her if Rudy had been told she was underage (to be clear she isn't actually underage) and she said that she wasn't involved with booking Rudy and she didn't know what he'd been told. This implies she didn't tell him and if anyone had then I assume they would have made a big deal about it.
> 
> He didn't ask, but then again nothing seems to have happened either.


It still... isn't a great look. Like, even if we read this at it's best and give Rudy the benefit of the doubt here (and I'm probably giving him a lot more than he deserves), he still behaved in a very inappropriate way around someone many years his minor.

As far as nothing happened, the only reason nothing really uhm... sexual happened was because Cohen/Borat interfered for a gag. He still got caught putting his hands in his pants though.



smf said:


> I was reading about the possibility that Trump could pardon himself, or he could resign and Pence become president and he could pardon Trump for any and all crimes. This is kinda worrying as he deserves to go to jail, but (and this is a big but) accepting the pardon means you accept the guilt.
> 
> I don't think Trump is big enough to accept that he is guilty of anything ever.


It's very unlikely that he'll ever accept defeat in any way, and I think that includes giving Pence the office of president to give him a pardon. The man is too much of a narcissist to ever accept defeat.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> The President is making the positive claim that there's widespread voter fraud. As there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, that claim is not to be believed.


He implicates himself as a witness or at least an agency of evidence.  He has a deadline to abide by.  I don't know what he knows, or his plan.  You seem to believe that you know.  Please tell us what the president knows.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> this entire thread....no the entire subforum went to hell over a biden win let me spell it out to trump supporters YOU LOST DEAL WITH IT LIKE AN ADULT



Have you ever heard of the electoral college? They've yet to vote on the 2020 election and their vote makes Biden's win official. No one has won or lost just yet. Sure, the media is claiming someone won, but they don't decide who wins and who loses. I suggest you read up on the electoral college because their vote is what decides who the next President is and they haven't voted yet.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



			
				smf said:
			
		

> You've got that the wrong way round. Trump tells you what to think, while liberals think it's a far more complex issue with pros and cons on both sides that need to be thought about. Conservatives don't like that, they want to copy the same decision they've always made no matter whether it makes any sense any more & get it over with. Conservatives have no patience, Trump claimed victory before enough votes had been counted for anyone to claim victory.



No, you have it the wrong way around. Liberals are mindless sheep controlled by a select few who have control over most institutions in the USA including the education system and the main stream media. Unlike what you assume Conservatives don't hang on Trump's every last word as we understand his Twitter is used as a trolling platform to infuriate the dumb leftists that keep falling for his games. We think for ourselves and value each other's input. My original stance still stands so I'll repeat it.



			
				gregory-samba said:
			
		

> You're a Liberal so of course you don't see what's really going on because you've been instructed not to think about such things. Liberals don't value the individual and that includes the individuals thoughts. You're instructed what to think as opposed to Conservatives that are educated on how to think for themselves. You yourself couldn't even list 1 single thing that Trump did that you agree with and this is a symptom of not being able to think for yourself as your peers would attack you and your so called friends would abandon you for doing something you're not allowed to do. Liberals try to champion their superior critical thinking skills, but you can't possibly critically think because what you're allowed to think about is only a small fraction of the possible things you could be pondering. You're literally controlled by your peers and their thought control groups.
> 
> You take orders from your news media, celebrities and politicians and would be outcast for thinking or saying certain things by the establishment and your peers. You're told what you should be outraged about, why you should be outraged and what you should do about the outrage on subjects that don't even involve you or effect your personal life. You seek to be part of a system that doesn't value individuals or independent thinking and wants a central source (Government) to control every aspect of your lives because you're too damned scared to think and take risks for yourself. You need to be included in something and unfortunately the groups of people you want to be included in are lying and cheating sinners that will turn on you the second you say something you're not allowed to or start to think for yourself.
> 
> You yourself and other Liberals on this board also will go to great lengths to not admit they are wrong even when the truth, like what I just typed, is presented to you. You're programmed to automatically label and reject things by calling them racist, *phobic or conspiracy theories. What I observe from you and others hasn't changed as you do not have the ability to think for yourself and that includes admitting when you're wrong.



You're also wrong about Biden as Biden has also declared victory, but neither Trump or Biden have won or lost anything until the people who decide who won or lost vote. The electoral college hasn't voted yet so the winner has not been decided.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-electoral-college-works-timeline-2020-8?op=1

Also before this time back in 2016 the Liberals were already planning to impeach Trump regardless of any wrong doing as they planned on impeaching him since before he even became the Republican nominee — as early as April 2016. I would say it would be fair game now to start talking about impeaching the child groping person that is most likely going to be the next President of the United States.

https://www.breitbart.com/the-media...mpeachment-7-months-before-trump-was-elected/

I know you might not like the source to the above link, but that's becase you're programmed by your peers and media to automatically dismiss things before even reading them if they are labeled with certain "code words" and this site falls under your attack vector. However, the information is correct. You just don't like the site because it shines truth on your lies (click link or see below url).

https://nypost.com/2019/10/13/inside-the-medias-relentless-crusade-to-destroy-president-trump/


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He implicates himself as a witness or at least an agency of evidence.  He has a deadline to abide by.  I don't know what he knows, or his plan.  You seem to believe that you know.  Please tell us what the president knows.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. The claims made by Trump have repeatedly been debunked.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> Have you ever heard of the electoral college? They've yet to vote on the 2020 election and their vote makes Biden's win official. No one has won or lost just yet. Sure, the media is claiming someone won, but they don't decide who wins and who loses. I suggest you read up on the electoral college because their vote is what decides who the next President is and they haven't voted yet.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


The election is over. The votes have largely been counted. Biden is the president-elect. You are correct the Electoral College hasn't met, but they are bound by the results of their states.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You are correct the Electoral College hasn't met, but they are bound by the results of their states.


Sadly there's a few earmarks to that statement.

It's true that it's legal to make laws to prevent electors from being faithless (SCOTUS has upheld this opinion fairly recently). That said, not every state has laws against faithless electors, making those an option.
_Technically_, lawmakers could overturn the results of their local elections by passing laws specifically designed to do so. The procedure of giving a "winner takes all" procedure to allocating electors is set per state, not nationally. Some Republican lawmakers have said (notably, DeSantis) that if their state doesn't turn Red, they'll do what they can to just appoint Republican electors anyway.
The legal grounds for that second one are rather dubious though, and I think you'll quickly see a lot of anger and outrage if that happens as well.
So in related news; the Electoral College fucking sucks.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 15, 2020)

Trump and his Republican allies want to spend more energy fighting non-existent voter fraud than containing a virus that has killed 244,000 Americans and counting. This is simply despicable.

The cost of this misplaced attention is incalculable. While Covid-19 surges to record levels, there’s still no national strategy in America for equipment, stay at home orders, mask mandates or disaster relief.

The other cost is found in the millions of Trump voters who are being led to believe the election was stolen and who will be a hostile force for years to come – making it harder to do much of anything the nation needs, including actions to contain the virus.

Trump is continuing this charade because it pulls money into his newly formed political action committee and allows him to assume the mantle of presumed presidential candidate for 2024, whether he intends to run or merely keep himself the center of attention.

Leading Republicans like Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell are going along with it because donors are refilling GOP coffers.

Every one of them should be ashamed of thier actions.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 15, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:
			
		

> So in related news; the Electoral College fucking sucks.



It sucks to Liberals because they can't cheat and control it. They have to sit back and watch the electors vote for the will of the people in each State giving each State a say in who wins or who loses. Your side never had a problem with the electoral college in the past when your candidates won, it's just recently in 2016 you all threw hissy fits over it because your candidate lost.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



AmandaRose said:


> Trump and his Republican allies want to spend more energy fighting non-existent voter fraud than containing a virus that has killed 244,000 Americans and counting. This is simply despicable.
> 
> The cost of this misplaced attention is incalculable. While Covid-19 surges to record levels, there’s still no national strategy in America for equipment, stay at home orders, mask mandates or disaster relief.
> 
> ...



Trump let Governments of each State control their own virus response. I understand "orange man bad, must blame orange man", but if you want to blame someone maybe you should blame the actual people responsible for making the decisions. The Governors of each State have overseen their respective States response. Some did quite well and others not so much. If Trump would have tried to control every States response you'd call him a tyrant and fascist because after all "orange man bad, who cares who's really responsible". As for Trump's limited federal response. Trump formed a task force and shut down the borders in January 2020 and all the Liberals did was simply attack him and call him racist over his actions ... actions which saved millions of lives.

*However, "orange man bad" is the only logic you'll get out of the retarded Liberal left.*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He implicates himself as a witness or at least an agency of evidence. He has a deadline to abide by. I don't know what he knows, or his plan. You seem to believe that you know. Please tell us what the president knows.





Lacius said:


> The claims made by Trump have repeatedly been debunked.



Deflection when I do it.  What is it called when you do it?  Why would Trump make claims about Dominion if he has nothing to substantiate them?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Deflection when I do it.  What is it called when you do it?  Why would Trump make claims about Dominion if he has nothing to substantiate them?


Your guess is as good as mine as to why Trump is behaving like a petulant child. Regardless, Trump and his legal time have not provided any evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 15, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It sucks to Liberals because they can't cheat and control it. They have to sit back and watch the electors vote for the will of the people in each State giving each State a say in who wins or who loses. Your side never had a problem with the electoral college in the past when your candidates won, it's just recently in 2016 you all threw hissy fits over it because your candidate lost.


Not sure why we (as in everyone) should be OK with a popular vote gap so large being undermined just because they happen to live in the wrong areas. Also, apparently NPVIC was drafted in 2006.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Not sure why we (as in everyone) should be OK with a popular vote gap so large being undermined just because they happen to live in the wrong areas. Also, apparently NPVIC was drafted in 2006.


There are many reasons to ditch the Electoral College, and there are no good reasons to keep it.


----------



## notimp (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There are many reasons to ditch the Electoral College, and there are no good reasons to keep it.


Well one... Listening to the outcome of economic policy in the (mostly) rural parts of the US - first.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Well one... Listening to the outcome of economic policy in the (mostly) rural parts of the US - first.


Could you be a little more specific?


----------



## notimp (Nov 15, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Could you be a little more specific?


Prevents 'min/maxing' for outcomes in big metropolises (in national economic planning/policies).


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

This is why we have the Electoral College.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This is why we have the Electoral College.
> View attachment 234079


Your picture doesn't clearly articulate a reason why we have the Electoral College.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Not sure why we (as in everyone) should be OK with a popular vote gap so large being undermined just because they happen to live in the wrong areas. Also, apparently NPVIC was drafted in 2006.



Since we live in a constitutional republic you are free to have your own opinion, but "we" isn't part of the deal. You're free to think what you want, but I believe the electoral college is better than allowing a bunch of dope fiends in mega cities to choose elected officials while the rest of the country is torn to shreds by their Liberal policies. Unfortunately Biden will most likely be the next President and I hope to God I'm wrong about what his policies will do to the country, but if Los Angles, New York, Chicago and Detroit are any indication we're headed down a dark road of sin, decay, misery and despair.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 16, 2020)

Someone in this thread mentioned something about slavery, something about mistreatment, or something along that line:
I'd like to point out that even people of color also owned slaves as well.
https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/6699
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...s-people-trot-out-about-slavery-debunked.html


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Regardless, Trump and his legal time have not provided any evidence of widespread voter fraud.


That's more honest than the zero evidence claim.  It doesn't potentially create false expectations.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> but I believe the electoral college is better than allowing a bunch of dope fiends in mega cities to choose elected officials while the rest of the country is torn to shreds by their Liberal policies.


The Electoral College is undemocratic, not to mention inherently racist by design.

Abolishing the Electoral College also wouldn't lead to cities determining the outcomes of presidential elections.



gregory-samba said:


> Unfortunately Biden will most likely be the next President


Assuming he doesn't die or otherwise become incapacitated, there is a 100% chance that Joe Biden will be the next president of the United States.



gregory-samba said:


> but if Los Angles, New York, Chicago and Detroit are any indication we're headed down a dark road of sin, decay, misery and despair.



These cities do not represent "sin, decay, misery, and despair."
For fun, I added up the populations of these cities, and they make up up 4.8% of the US population. They're not about to unilaterally control the results of a popular vote presidential election.



RandomUser said:


> Someone in this thread mentioned something about slavery, something about mistreatment, or something along that line:
> I'd like to point out that even people of color also owned slaves as well.
> https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/6699
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics...s-people-trot-out-about-slavery-debunked.html


Who fucking cares? It's not at all relevant, and slavery was unarguably an anti-black institution in the United States.



tabzer said:


> That's more honest than the zero evidence claim.  It doesn't potentially create false expectations.


Trump and his legal team have not provided any evidence of widespread voter fraud, and there is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> there is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud.



And that's a positive assertion you cannot support.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)




----------



## RandomUser (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Who fucking cares? It's not at all relevant, and slavery was unarguably an anti-black institution in the United States.


Nobody cares and you're right about that. Not disputing that at all. However African American should share some of the blame for participating on slave ownership weather then blaming it all on one race.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234081


----------



## djpannda (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234081


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


>


33%>>>1%


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> And that's a positive assertion you cannot support.


Acknowledging an apparent absent of evidence of widespread voter fraud is not a positive claim. Like, by definition. The positive claim is there is widespread voter fraud.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



RandomUser said:


> Nobody cares and you're right about that. Not disputing that at all. However African American should share some of the blame for participating on slave ownership weather then blaming it all on one race.


No, they shouldn't.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> Someone in this thread mentioned something about slavery, something about mistreatment, or something along that line:
> I'd like to point out that even people of color also owned slaves as well.
> https://historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/6699
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics...s-people-trot-out-about-slavery-debunked.html



To add to that the black slave owners in Africa were selling their slaves to white Democrats back in the States. The Democrats fought a war mainly to keep their slaves and lost. After that they created the KKK and more recently the Jim Crowe laws. Now they're using minorities as pawns to fuel their racist hatred towards certain people and certain skin colors. The Republican party however was mainly created to stop slavery. Although there still is a slave trade in the world today, but the USA has stopped it all together. It was wrong to claim someone other then your skin color is worth less or more than you. That includes blacks, Asians or Latino's getting preferential treatment over whites or whites getting preferential treatment over other skin colors. Most normal Republicans and Conservatives don't judge others by their skin color while the Democrats and Liberals still do.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

I, for one, believe that race doesn't matter.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> No, they shouldn't.


Can you elaborate why? Perhaps I can gain some insight from why they shouldn't.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> Can you elaborate why? Perhaps I can gain some insight from why they shouldn't.


White people in the Americas systemically oppressed Black people in this country. There was nothing systemic about anything you're talking about.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> White people in the Americas systemically oppressed Black people in this country. There was nothing systemic about anything you're talking about.


"Whites are racist because they're white."


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> To add to that the black slave owners in Africa were selling their slaves to white Democrats back in the States. The Democrats fought a war mainly to keep their slaves and lost. After that they created the KKK and more recently the Jim Crowe laws. Now they're using minorities as pawns to fuel their racist hatred towards certain people and certain skin colors. The Republican party however was mainly created to stop slavery. Although there still is a slave trade in the world today, but the USA has stopped it all together. It was wrong to claim someone other then your skin color is worth less or more than you. That includes blacks, Asians or Latino's getting preferential treatment over whites or whites getting preferential treatment over other skin colors. Most normal Republicans and Conservatives don't judge others by their skin color while the Democrats and Liberals still do.


I agree that nobody should get preferential treatment based on their gender or color of their skin. If anything everybody should be treated equally and be considered by their merit. I have been noticing some trends on preferential treatment over the years.



Lacius said:


> White people in the Americas systemically oppressed Black people in this country. There was nothing systemic about anything you're talking about.


Oppressed? How?
Hmm, of all the African American people I have talked to, don't mentioned of being oppressed, they say they work hard just like everyone else to get where they are at or they are happy with their life. There is a few whom I am friends with.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I, for one, believe that race doesn't matter.



I believe it matters, but shouldn't be used as a reason to discriminate. Your ethnicity and race are where you came from, the sort of people you were born around, the type of native food that grows or is prepared by your kind. Certain races are also predisposed to ailments that don't effect other races that badly so Doctor's need to be aware and treat their patients accordingly. I've had black friends, Mexican friends, British friends, Portuguese fiends Chinese and Japanese friends and each of their cultures had something unique to bring to the table.

You can be aware and celebrate others differences, but it's when you start to give one the edge over the other or deny services to one over the other it starts to get negative and most people don't want to be negative or live negative lives. The Liberals in the USA are currently on a "hate whitey" racist movement as you can barely load up any of their news sources and not be inundated with hate stories against white skinned people. The Liberals just traded one skin color over the other, but they don't even believe you can be racist against the majority and that's a lie brought on because of their inappropriate affair with socialism.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Looks widespread to me.


You're correct on your statement that it wasn't relating to a court case. One who did as much as work as I did and trying to figure out what I want to say in one reply is not easy. So, I'll correct my statement to you responding to a election fraud article.
But, it doesn't detract from the point that was implied by yourself.
You believed that it was widespread. that voter fraud exists.
further proven by this response


tabzer said:


> I won't count on any of this to be true, but if Trump is going to win the election, this could be a "how". @Lacius
> 
> If it is true, I can see this being very troubling for those who have already committed themselves to "knowing" the outcome.




This proof that what I said about people believing that trump could still win, and that you believed in election fraud.




tabzer said:


> That's false.
> 
> It was in direct response to "*Texas Social Worker Charged With 134 Felony Counts Of Elections Fraud" *and if you paid attention to the mugshot, you could see that it is obviously a joke.


Oh, looks like your playing something out of the handbook. Fun.
Yeah the "it's a prank bro" isn't going to fly. Reason why?
Because you didn't link it as a joke.
More accurately, you didn't link it yourself.
ForgotWhom brought the article in question as a serious response. Therefore, no, your argument doesn't work here. Because you didn't treat it as a joke. You asked that question seriously. And Lacius responded.
It also doesn't help that your now in a corner. Because you haven't refuted my points.
You've  sidestepped.
remember your original argument?


tabzer said:


> Oh that's cool.  You can retroactively change the meaning and the intention of what you said by using a switch in your mind. * Too bad nothing of what you are saying has anything to do with what I've said*.


Yeah, sure, totally doesn't seem like it has nothing to do with what you said if your taking issue with it.
Oh. And don't pull the "Lacius or" (x person) here "didn't tell me that there wasn't wide spread voter fraud with evidence"
specifically from me

"Now... Let's play a game
Was tabzer told that there wasn't widespread voter fraud?
For any skeptics, or for any of those who wonder if it's real or not. It is not.
Why can I say that definitively?
https://apnews.com/article/ap-explains-fail-prove-election-fraud-d0f13ae6ca370c8716706d3f7d85659e
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/us/politics/trump-election-lawsuits.html"
And from Lacius themselves. Which since you just agreed to arguments on the same page can be presented as evidence.



Lacius said:


> There is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. Put up or shut up.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html
> 
> ...



Again...
Try to refute my claim that you believe that there is widespread voter fraud.
(since what I said can be confusing. It basically is saying. Does he have anything to counter my point that* he does believe* in widespread voter fraud.)
Even states
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html
are agreeing.

Also try to refute that my point has nothing to do with what you were saying.
either you stop your cognitive dissonance now. Or look like a fool to any eyes who see you.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This is why we have the Electoral College.
> View attachment 234079


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


>


We have fifty states, not five.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Acknowledging an apparent absent of evidence of widespread voter fraud is not a positive claim.


. "There doesn't seem to be any evidence "does not equal "there is zero evidence."



monkeyman4412 said:


> Therefore, no, your argument doesn't work here. Because you didn't treat it as a joke.



It was a joke.   I don't know what I believe.  Everything here is conjecture.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Whites are racist because they're white."


That's not what I said.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



RandomUser said:


> I agree that nobody should get preferential treatment based on their gender or color of their skin. If anything everybody should be treated equally and be considered by their merit. I have been noticing some trends on preferential treatment over the years.
> 
> 
> Oppressed? How?
> Hmm, of all the African American people I have talked to, don't mentioned of being oppressed, they say they work hard just like everyone else to get where they are at or they are happy with their life. There is a few whom I am friends with.


We were talking about slavery.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> We have fifty states, not five.


You showed a colored map with the intention of exaggerating the voting demographics.

I corrected that.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> .It was a joke. I don't know what I believe. Everything here is conjecture.


Bullshit


tabzer said:


> I still think it's amazing that you seem to think there was no vote fraud.  A lot of people were left disappointed with Obama's lackluster message of "hope" that didn't seem to amount to anything tangible.  It's hard for me to believe that Biden would get more votes than Obama.  But I can see that you want to believe that the election process is not corrupt, so this would be the rationalization.


Then explain this post. This was response to xzi from you.
You know exactly what you believe in.
How?
what's stated between the lines within this response.
"I still think it's amazing that you seem to think there was no vote fraud."
this proves that you believe in voter fraud. It's a either or situation in the specific. you either do believe or you don't. Otherwise, you wouldn't have responded to xzi.
which also means the context you saw that post through, wasn't a joke. It was a serious response.



Oh... by the way. You still failed to refute the fact that what I said had everything to do with you.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> . "There doesn't seem to be any evidence "does not equal "there is zero evidence."
> 
> 
> 
> It was a joke.   I don't know what I believe.  Everything here is conjecture.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> You showed a colored map with the intention of exaggerating the voting demographics.
> 
> I corrected that.


The fate of the fifty shouldn't be determined by the five.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The fate of the fifty shouldn't be determined by the five.


Wide spaces where nobody lives is colored red across your map.  That's disingenuous and highly misleading.  As my map illustrated for you, land doesn't vote -- people do.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Wide spaces where nobody lives is colored red across your map.  That's disingenuous and highly misleading.  As my map illustrated for you, land doesn't vote -- people do.


Abolish big cities.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Abolish big cities.


Or abolish the winner-takes-all electoral college.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------







Not so red anymore.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Not so red anymore.


So you want the entire vote to be determined by a few _big cities_. Interesting.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Abolish big cities.


The maps you so desperately cling to are maps of land, not maps of people.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> So you want the entire vote to be determined by a few _big cities_. Interesting.


A few big cities would not determine the outcome of a popular vote election.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So you want the entire vote to be determined by a few _big cities_. Interesting.


I want the election to be *determined by voters*, not cities or wide open spaces.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The fate of the fifty shouldn't be determined by the five.


That's what the electoral college potentially does.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I want the election to be *determined by voters*, not cities or wide open spaces.


I wouldn't be surprised if 13% of the _big cities_ contains 50% of the people.


Lacius said:


> The maps you so desperately cling to are maps of land, not maps of people.


When most of the US votes red and the vote ends up going blue simply because 50% of the population lives in 13 _big cities_, something's screwy.


Lacius said:


> A few big cities would not determine the outcome of a popular vote election.


The map that I posted would say otherwise.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> That's what the electoral college potentially does.


The Electoral College isn't perfect (perfect would be one vote per county), but it's better than popular vote in regard to equal states.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if 13% of the _big cities_ contains 50% of the people.
> 
> When most of the US votes red and the vote ends up going blue simply because 50% of the population lives in 13 _big cities_, something's screwy.
> 
> ...


Land doesn't have voting rights.

The only fair system is having each person's vote be of equal worth, not giving some people more voting power because of the state they live in.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> We were talking about slavery.


After pondering about this, I think I am starting to see what you mean. It was basically just the African American that were slaves and no other race were a slave, hence the oppression. Make sense now.
Then there is a so-called "white slaves" known as "indentured servants". Perhaps not as harsh compared to slaves of African American.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if 13% of the _big cities_ contains 50% of the people.
> 
> When most of the US votes red and the vote ends up going blue simply because 50% of the population lives in 13 _big cities_, something's screwy.
> 
> The map that I posted would say otherwise.


Your argument is that living in a city should decrease the value of a citizen's vote.  My argument is that all votes should be treated equally.

Who wins this argument?  Here's a hint:

_It's not you._


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Land doesn't have voting rights.
> 
> The only fair system is having each person's vote be of equal worth, not giving some people more voting power because of the state they live in.


Alright. You give me equal distribution of people among cities, I'll give you equal voting power among people.


LumInvader said:


> Your argument is that living in a city should decrease the value of a citizen's vote.  My argument is that all votes should be treated equally.
> 
> Who wins this argument?  Here's a hint:
> 
> _It's not you._


Yes, all electoral votes should be treated equally.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alright. You give me equal distribution of people among cities, I'll give you equal voting power among people.
> 
> Yes, all electoral votes should be treated equally.


It's amazing how the conservatives have talked themselves into being anti-democratic.

Telling people where they can/can't live is a violation of people's freedoms. You know, that thing you pretend to care about when it suits you?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Bullshit
> 
> Then explain this post. This was response to xzi from you.
> You know exactly what you believe in.
> ...


You are right. I am skeptical of Ameica's democratic process.  Vote fraud does happen (fact).


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are right. I am skeptical of Ameica's democratic process.  Vote fraud does happen (fact).


There is, however, no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It's amazing how the conservatives have talked themselves into being anti-democratic.
> 
> Telling people where they can/can't live is a violation of people's freedoms. You know, that thing you pretend to care about when it suits you?


Abolition of the Electoral College is also a violation of the Constitution.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Abolition of the Electoral College is also a violation of the Constitution.


Who the fuck cares? Ending slavery was a *violation* of the Constitution as it was at the time.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Your argument is that living in a city should decrease the value of a citizen's vote.  My argument is that all votes should be treated equally.
> 
> Who wins this argument?  Here's a hint:
> 
> _It's not you._


If all the states suddenly starting swinging blue they would start saying how it's unfair how low population areas get to choose the fate of the whole nation and would want to change it. 

Just look at gerrymandering for a good example, they absolutely love and support the unfair advantage it gives towards votes, but when it is used to turn a state blue suddenly "it's a bad thing" and "needs to be abolished".


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alright. You give me equal distribution of people among cities, I'll give you equal voting power among people.
> 
> Yes, all electoral votes should be treated equally.


Just as long as conservatives benefit from it.  Considering your posting pattern, you'd be against it if it didn't benefit you in some way.

Hypothetically, I'd be willing to compromise with you.  Let's keep the electoral college, but get rid of the winner-takes-all format.  That means conservative votes in blue states would actually count for something and vice versa. 

This satisfies your argument:


> "Yes, all electoral votes should be treated equally."


While also  satisfying my argument:


> "I want the election to be *determined by voters*, not cities or wide open spaces."



Win-win.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are right. I am skeptical of Ameica's democratic process.  Vote fraud does happen (fact).


Nice try to move the conversation.
But we know that's not what you believe in.
Since you also said trump could win due to "wide spread voter fraud"
And that's the key point.
keep trying to retroactively change what you already said.
it's going to keep failing.
Also again, you still failed to argue that my response had nothing to do with you.
And also failed to argue you don't believe in widespread voter fraud.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> After pondering about this, I think I am starting to see what you mean. It was basically just the African American that were slaves and no other race were a slave, hence the oppression. Make sense now.
> Then there is a so-called "white slaves" known as "indentured servants". Perhaps not as harsh compared to slaves of African American.



There were more than black slaves in this world back then and modern slavery exists all around the globe and affects all skin tones and races.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> There were more than black slaves in this world back then and modern slavery exists all around the globe and affects all skin tones and races.


Yes, but we are talking about the systemic oppression of Black people in this country.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Just as long as conservatives benefit from it.  Considering your posting pattern, you'd be against it if it didn't benefit you in some way.
> 
> Hypothetically, I'd be willing to compromise with you.  Let's keep the electoral college, but get rid of the winner-takes-all format.  That means conservative votes in blue states would actually count for something and vice versa.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is a system like in Nebraska, where rather than having one statewide winner, each district gets their own vote. Meaning _big cities_ have even less power than with the current system, as while all 29 electoral votes of New York are normally determined by Manhattan Island and Albany, under this idea, while they would still have more power than other counties, they'd only carry a bit over half of all New York votes combined. If this is what you're saying, we have reached a compromise.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> There were more than black slaves in this world back then and modern slavery exists all around the globe and affects all skin tones and races.


Really? I thought it was mostly black and was isolated to a few country back then, but I learned something new. Thank you.
I have notice that the debtors prison thing that was abolished is sort of making a comeback today.
I have notice that the government emphasize on one gender signifying that the other are not equally important and is okay to exploit.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So what you're saying is a system like in Nebraska, where rather than having one statewide winner, each district gets their own vote. Meaning _big cities_ have even less power than with the current system, as while all 29 electoral votes of New York are normally determined by Manhattan Island and Albany, under this idea, while they would still have more power than other counties, they'd only carry a bit over half of all New York votes combined. If this is what you're saying, we have reached a compromise.


My proposal would effectively allow the electoral college to approximate the results of the popular vote.  A system that *treats all voters as equals* while preserving our standing as a Republic.  No one vote is worth more than another just because a voter happens to live in a wide open space or a city.  I suspect a winner-takes-all by districts approach would likely throw the system even more off balance.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Nice try to move the conversation.
> But we know that's not what you believe in.
> Since you also said trump could win due to "wide spread voter fraud"
> And that's the key point.
> ...


If Trump wins the election, it would probably be because he demonstrates,"wide spread voter fraud" or perhaps by arresting all of his political opponents.  I'm not really sure how the latter works.  I have trouble believing Biden outperformed Obama.  Your comment that we are talking about, is factually inaccurate on multiple accounts.  The only way that is seemed relevant or true was by poking fun at the court cases being proof of something.


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 16, 2020)

Y'all really need to stop with "my experience with X is" or "My friend's experience with Y is" as if you or your friends are representatives of whatever issue you're talking about.
I've never had a bad experience with cops, that does not mean systemic oppression via law enforcement is not real or that I support the blue lives matter movement. 
There are so many variables to consider it's not as simple as saying "I/My friend never experienced [whatever] so it's not a thing"


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> Y'all really need to stop with "my experience with X is" or "My friend's experience with Y is" as if you or your friends representatives of whatever issue you're talking about.
> I've never had a bad experience with cops, that does not mean systemic oppression via law enforcement is not real or that I support the blue lives matter movement.
> There are so many variables to consider it's not as simple as saying "I/My friend never experienced [whatever] so it's not a thing"


Racism will always be a thing, in all professions. It's natural to fear differences. That doesn't make it a good thing, but there's not much we can do.


----------



## notimp (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's natural to fear differences.


Again, this is a rhetorical trick. Its 'natural' to... Is simply proclaimed, sounds good (because natural) - has no actual claims, or proof attached.

Its word play.

Same stupid trick advertisers use in
- the food industry. "Natural aromas" (http://www.naturalaroma.co/products/ = chemicals)
- the beauty industry (https://www.aromanaturals.com/ = natural and organic beauty/some cream)
...

And even in this case its absolutely wrong. Racism studies show, that a societal concept of race is needed, to become a racist.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3083924/

Meaning, if you child. And see difference, response is not 'fear'.

So absolute hatemongering BS from you this time.

Its not 'inescapable' that people react with racist motives. Its people like you that teach them, that this is a reaction they could go with.


edit:  Easier to read text on the subject:
https://inclusions.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Children-are-Not-Colorblind.pdf


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

I'm just having a ball with this.  This is gbatemp.net, the only place on the internet where everything can and is exploited, except politics and voting machines.  I cannot be the only one thinking this.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Racism will always be a thing, in all professions. It's natural to fear differences. That doesn't make it a good thing, but there's not much we can do.


Regardless of how you feel about racism in general, there's a lot we can do to mitigate the present disadvantages caused by past systemic oppression.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

*Trump campaign retreats from key claim in Pennsylvania suit*
https://apnews.com/article/election...nia-lawsuits-fe4754fa7cd077d66854c724e1df91e7


> Ahead of a Tuesday hearing in the case, *Trump’s campaign dropped the allegation that hundreds of thousands of mail-in and absentee ballots — 682,479, to be precise — were illegally processed* without its representatives watching.





> The campaign’s slimmed-down lawsuit, filed in federal court on Sunday, maintains the aim of blocking Pennsylvania from certifying a victory for Biden in the state, and it maintains its claim that Democratic voters were treated more favorably than Republican voters.





> The remaining claim in* the lawsuit centers on disqualifying ballots cast by voters who were given an opportunity to fix mail-in ballots that were going to be disqualified for a technicality*.
> 
> The lawsuit charges that “Democratic-heavy counties” violated the law by identifying mail-in ballots before Election Day that had defects — such as lacking an inner “secrecy envelope” or lacking a voter’s signature on the outside envelope — so that the voter could fix it and ensure that the vote would count, called “curing.”





> *Cliff Levine, a lawyer representing the Democratic National Committee*, which is seeking to intervene, *said it’s unclear how many voters were given the chance to fix their ballot*.
> 
> But, *he said, it is minimal and certainly fewer than the margin — almost 70,000 — that separates Biden and Trump*.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Regardless of how you feel about racism in general, there's a lot we can do to mitigate the present disadvantages caused by past systemic oppression.


America is already the least racist multi-racial country.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> America is already the least racist multi-racial country.


What utter bullshit you talk. Every time league tables are published about racism/homopbia/transphobia America is always one of the counties that come out the worst for all 3


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6?amp



https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-44158098


America are not even near the current top 20 lol.








Slightly different list linked down below but again America is not in the top 20.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...sive-eco-friendly-countries-a7516091.html?amp


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> What utter bullshit you talk. Every time league tables are published about racism/homopbia/transphobia America is always one of the counties that come out the worst for all 3
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6?amp
> ...


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ainst_america_is_a_racist_country_143702.html


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ainst_america_is_a_racist_country_143702.html


That is One person's opinion the lists I posted came by interviewing thousands of people in each county and thier respective governments so sorry your claim is still total bullshit. What now are you going to say the vote results in the lists were fraudulent


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> What now are you going to say the vote results in the lists were fraudulent


Yes. The media controls the mind.


----------



## realtimesave (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> If you didn't care about colour you wouldn't have said a Black female president you would have just said a female president or New president but nice try in trying to cover up your racism.



White women from Oakland are weird too.  I walked by one and she started saying "shhh... there's black people over there" and pointed to the school across the street.  This was near the end of where the car dealerships are on Broadway in Oakland.  Vile creatures come from Oakland.  Am I city-ist?  Yes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Joom said:


> It would be if Trump weren't a disingenuous narcissist that would concede.
> 
> Except it would fail in keeping literally anyone out because the people who are illegally crossing the border don't do it by scaling a fucking wall. Also, the wind keeps blowing it over because it's made out of sheet metal, so good job.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100% because it is a wall of fail.  It can be scaled or you can go underneath or straight through in some places lol.  All the information about where to get by it would surely circulate with los coyotes.

Btw, I have a really good friend who IS Mexican that crossed the boarder with los coyotes.  I'm 100% not anti-mexican he is a great guy and now he is a mechanical engineer and is contributing to US society as well as making money for himself and possibly his family that he crossed the boarder with. Great guys Mexicans can be, indeed.  I met him when he was still an illegal at college.  Now he is a citizen.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> What utter bullshit you talk. Every time league tables are published about racism/homopbia/transphobia America is always one of the counties that come out the worst for all 3
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6?amp
> ...


According to pew research Asians are dominating America with high paying jobs. Seems weird that White people will create society to oppress themselves in the high paying work field and raise the minority group Asians above Whites.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

SG854 said:


> According to pew research Asians are dominating America with high paying jobs. Seems weird that White people will create society to oppress themselves in the high paying work field and raise the minority group Asians above Whites.


Nothing America does makes sense lol.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 16, 2020)

Oof,  yep im still thinking the U.S could become better, but thats just a lost cause, thats never gonna happen.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

We are the laughing stock of the world, just admit it..


----------



## rensenware (Nov 16, 2020)

damn this thread still going


----------



## realtimesave (Nov 16, 2020)

SG854 said:


> According to pew research Asians are dominating America with high paying jobs. Seems weird that White people will create society to oppress themselves in the high paying work field and raise the minority group Asians above Whites.



Where I have worked, I have noticed that they usually keep Filipinos employed because they are docile and will work for less pay than most Whites will.   I asked some of them if they would step up to PE and they say they like where they are at in life.  So they pretty much just stay put in jobs where the pay is lower than at other firms.

Speaking of minorities, I was blown away that only like about 13% of the US are Black, when there are Black people literally everywhere.  Must just be certain states that are that way I guess.  I never in my life have felt that this country was predominately White, only have been told that.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Nothing America does makes sense lol.


When you look at Proffesional and Managerial positions Hispanics make up 22%, Black's 31%, Whites 42%, Asian 54% of their population.

Blacks at 31% is pretty huge considering they are a small part of the population in the minority group. Asian being even a smaller minority then Blacks make up 54% which is higher above Whites.

Doesn't make sense when people complain about minorities being disadvantaged in high up positions.

People acuse Whites oppressing Blacks but difference between both is 11%.  Between Asian and Whites its 12%, bigger then White and Black gap. Doesn't makes sense when they call America being racist when hiring in the upper management positions. Unless Asians are the new Whites, and are being racist to everyone. Or Whites want to oppress themselves because they get some kinky satisfaction out of being told what to do by Asians.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



realtimesave said:


> Where I have worked, I have noticed that they usually keep Filipinos employed because they are docile and will work for less pay than most Whites will.   I asked some of them if they would step up to PE and they say they like where they are at in life.  So they pretty much just stay put in jobs where the pay is lower than at other firms.
> 
> Speaking of minorities, I was blown away that only like about 13% of the US are Black, when there are Black people literally everywhere.  Must just be certain states that are that way I guess.  I never in my life have felt that this country was predominately White, only have been told that.


I was taking about high up manager positions where Asians dominate. You have to be far away from being docile to get those positions. And of course they are not getting less pay in those high up positions.


----------



## realtimesave (Nov 16, 2020)

SG854 said:


> When you look at Proffesional and Managerial positions Hispanics make up 22%, Black's 31%, Whites 42%, Asian 54%.
> 
> Blacks at 31% is pretty huge considering they are a small part of the population in the minority group. Asian being even a smaller minority then Blacks make up 54% which is higher above Whites.
> 
> ...



Yep.  Probably predominately Chinese folk I would be guessing?  The kind that speak the business language Mandarin.  Not so sure about Japanese and Korean.  Loads of Japanese left after WWII and Koreans, idk I guess some could be in those positions too.  I haven't ever worked anywhere that Asians were in high up positions but I'm sure it exists out there.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 16, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> Yep.  Probably predominately Chinese folk I would be guessing?  The kind that speak the business language Mandarin.  Not so sure about Japanese and Korean.  Loads of Japanese left after WWII and Koreans, idk I guess some could be in those positions too.  I haven't ever worked anywhere that Asians were in high up positions but I'm sure it exists out there.


I was referring to the pew research @AmandaRose linked. That shows Asians dominating the higher up positions. So according to that research yes it does exist out there.

If that's the case that Mandarin speaking Chinese are at the top then it shows the economy & bilingualism is the judge who makes it at the top and not the race of the person. Because China is a huge market. A person that is better fit for the job and makes it to the top is a Chinese speaking bilingual.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> America is already the least racist multi-racial country.


First, no it isn't. Second, the United States is actually pretty bad at social mobility, regardless of whether or not the initial low socioeconomic status was caused by systemic oppression.

Although it's not always the case, generally speaking, poor families stay poor and rich families stay rich.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Although it's not always the case, generally speaking, poor families stay poor and rich families stay rich.


Poor people tend to spend more than they should. That is why poor families stay poor.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Poor people tend to spend more than they should. That is why poor families stay poor.


I always find this hilarious when it is spewed from someone who has never been poor in their lives and just regurgitates talking points they hear.

Most people that are poor are struggling just to make ends meet, not buying any "luxuries" (with some of those said luxuries being necessary depending on where you live), and only buying what is needed for the household.

But of course you're going to throw out "B-but they spend $1000+ on a cell-phone", not even realizing that most people that are poor don't actually do that or don't even own a cellphone at all.

Maybe it's stop listening to Mama for a bit at "homeschool".


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Poor people tend to spend more than they should. That is why poor families stay poor.


This generally is not the case. I suggest doing some research before spouting what you just feel like is true. You would embarrass yourself less.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> I always find this hilarious when it is spewed from someone who has never been poor in their lives and just spews out talking points they hear.
> 
> Most people that are poor are struggling just to make ends meet, not buying any "luxuries" (with some of those said luxuries being necessary depending on where you live), and only buying what is needed for the household.
> 
> ...



I hang around poor people a lot and they do spend money on stupid shit all of the time. They gotta have $300 beat headphones, $200 kicks, $1000 phones, cigarettes, marijuana, beer and they are usually over weight because they have no idea how to cook and spend money eating at fast food places all of the time. They spend all of this on themselves and then claim they can't afford to feed their children because they are "poor". So what do they do? They expect others to feed their kids because they are refusing to. It's not just a few people either, it's entire neighborhoods. They have a name for them. They are called "the projects".


----------



## SG854 (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I hang around poor people a lot and they do spend money on stupid shit all of the time. They gotta have $300 beat headphones, $200 kicks, $1000 phones, cigarettes, marijuana, beer and they are usually over weight because they have no idea how to cook and spend money eating at fast food places all of the time. They spend all of this on themselves and then claim they can't afford to feed their children because they are "poor". So what do they do? They expect others to feed their kids because they are refusing to. It's not just a few people either, it's entire neighborhoods. They have a name for them. They are called "the projects".


So poor that they got one of their basic human nessicities taken care of which is food. Overweight and obesity more likely a problem for low income people, if we should call them that since I see low income as people that can barely get any food in developing countries. I guess poor for America.

Those fast food places and food desserts are providing them enough calories that they can store those extra calories and hibernate for the upcoming winter. More calories then our ancestors ate to survive and more then in developing countries.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

SG854 said:


> So poor that they got one of their basic human nessicities taken care of which is food. Overweight and obesity more likely a problem for low income people, if we should call them that since I see low income as people that can barely get any food in developing countries. I guess poor for America.
> 
> Those fast food places and food desserts are providing them enough calories that they can store those extra calories and hibernate for the upcoming winter. More calories then our ancestors ate to survive and more then in developing countries.



Indeed. Most of the people I'm referring to are on food stamps, get utility assistance and a lot of them get Section 8 (HUD) rental assistance. A lot of them simply trade their food stamps for beer and drugs and are so uneducated they probably couldn't cook meals if they did spent their food money on something healthy. It angers me when it comes to how they treat their kids. I could care less that they are fat, lazy pieces of shit, but that's no reason to have your kids go hungry. They think other people should feed their kids and that's fucked. Then their kids go hungry, see their parents doing drugs and not working and then that's how they grow up and act.


----------



## emigre (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Poor people tend to spend more than they should. That is why poor families stay poor.



 

It's quite clear you know shit. I'm guessing you're 15.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

emigre said:


> It's quite clear you know shit. I'm guessing you're 15.



He clearly knows far more than you know and is apparently much younger than you. Seems that education system failed you.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 16, 2020)

SG854 said:


> So poor that they got one of their basic human nessicities taken care of which is food. Overweight and obesity more likely a problem for low income people, if we should call them that since I see low income as people that can barely get any food in developing countries. I guess poor for America.
> 
> Those fast food places and food desserts are providing them enough calories that they can store those extra calories and hibernate for the upcoming winter. More calories then our ancestors ate to survive and more then in developing countries.


It's weird that poor people are overweight and rich people are thin. Oh, how things have changed compared to the past. 

But of course I'm just messing around. We should make healthy food more accessible to low income places and counteract food desserts.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

SG854 said:


> It's weird that poor people are overweight and rich people are thin. Oh, how things have changed compared to the past.
> 
> But of course I'm just messing around. We should make healthy food more accessible to low income places and counteract food desserts.



While you're right and the USA has some of the world richest poor people it's not just the lower class that have problems with obesity. It's true most celebrities and uber rich people know how to eat well and reap the benefits of exercise, but the majority of the citizens in the USA are either overweight, obese or morbidly obese. It doesn't help that we have the Liberals claiming with their junk science that diet and exercise isn't all you need to control to keep a healthy weight level, but it's actually that simple. Just find a person who isn't fat as fuck as ask them how they do it. 

The thing is a lot of these inner city ghettos are close to grocery stores that sell healthy foods, it's just the people don't want to eat it. They rather not cook for themselves and their families and eat shitty ass food and then blame everyone else for their weight problem. Fuck. They basically blame everyone else for all of their problems as lack of personal responsibility is a shining trait in these projects and ghettos.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> he still behaved in a very inappropriate way around someone many years his minor.



If she's 18 or over and willing then I frankly don't give a shit. She invited him to her hotel room for a drink.

I find it offensive when people make out that men who are too old, ugly or poor to approach a woman just because it reduces her value.

I don't like rudy and she is perfectly within her rights to not be interested in him. But it's kinda cruel to go "look at the pretty girl, she wants to go to her hotel room with you" and then make fun when he gets the idea they wanted him to get.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 16, 2020)

I WON THE ELECTION!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 16, 2020

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

*GOP Suddenly Drops Election Lawsuits In Four Battleground States Amid Recent Court Failures*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...-georgia-michigan-amid-recent-court-failures/


> Three Wisconsin voters, backed by conservative group True the Vote, *voluntarily dismissed a lawsuit* that sought to block the state from certifying votes in several Democratic-leaning counties, claiming their votes had been diluted because of alleged voter fraud and “illegal” votes in those counties.





> *The lawsuit—in which the plaintiffs admitted they did not yet have any concrete evidence of illegal votes* and the evidence would be “shortly forthcoming”—*was dropped immediately* before the case was supposed to be heard in court.





> Similar lawsuits in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, in which voters in each state also tried to exclude votes that were cast in certain Democratic-leaning counties, *were also dismissed* by the plaintiffs Monday morning.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1328200072987893762
> Meanwhile, back in the real world...
> 
> *GOP Suddenly Drops Election Lawsuits In Four Battleground States Amid Recent Court Failures*
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...-georgia-michigan-amid-recent-court-failures/



Were these lawsuits brought on by citizens or by Trump himself? There's both normal people and Trump filing lawsuits. Either way each suit that doesn't go through points to Biden as a winner. So far I haven't seen any evidence of massive voter fraud so unfortunately we're going to be headed into dark times with Biden as our President. It will probably get worse than when Obama was President. Obama stoked the race wars and brought our GDP down to record lows, plus we lost all sorts of jobs under him. It wasn't until Trump until we saw our economy recover. It's just too bad the entire world's economies have been hit hard by peoples irrational fears regarding the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus. Either way, if Biden does win when the electoral college votes next month we'll be headed into more dark times.


----------



## notimp (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Either way each suit that doesn't go through points to Biden as a winner. So far I haven't seen any evidence of massive voter fraud so unfortunately we're going to be headed into dark times with Biden as our President.


Insert the 50 posts I've made about Biden not being able to do anything except sign presidential orders, which might be overtaken in 4 years again. Meaning, no structural change. Just 'flair', and policies likely for the rich donor class who doesnt necessarily care which side they support, and therefore have goodwill going on both sides.

Biden has pretty much axed climate action (retrofitting buildings is the least 'unsettling' way to do anything about it, and not very effective as a result. No tax increases were promised for people up to 400k of yearly income (as supposed to 200k when Obama ran). And his chief of staff is a flipping industry lobbyist:


(Jimmy Dorr is a bad source for anything (very conspiracy prone), but for reading out politico articles - that doesnt matter.)

As a result (heavy democrate losses in the house, very likely loss of the Senate)- nothing much changes in terms of deep structural policy changes.

Thats the thing I tried to get you to understand for probably the last 200 days. If all you are ever doing is looking at the figureheads, you will not understand much.

In fact, you probably will 'rectify' any choice - post facto, based on if 'the figurehead you liked' has made it or not. If you do that, you arent clued in - but certainly in the majority amongst peers. And you will deny, that this is how your thoughtprocess goes, until you are dead. Because admitting that would mean admitting that you are essentially without position, until someone tells you what to believe in. And that would mean...

So no - you believe in one person to be good. And defend all their actions until the last possible point. While politics is something entirely different. (Well the non populist part.)


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Were these lawsuits brought on by citizens or by Trump himself? There's both normal people and Trump filing lawsuits. Either way each suit that doesn't go through points to Biden as a winner. So far I haven't seen any evidence of massive voter fraud so unfortunately we're going to be headed into dark times with Biden as our President. It will probably get worse than when Obama was President. Obama stoked the race wars and brought our GDP down to record lows, plus we lost all sorts of jobs under him. It wasn't until Trump until we saw our economy recover. It's just too bad the entire world's economies have been hit hard by peoples irrational fears regarding the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus. Either way, if Biden does win when the electoral college votes next month we'll be headed into more dark times.


Fact check:

There's no reason to think we will have "dark times" when Biden is president.
There's no reason to think things will "get worse than when Obama was president."
Obama did not stoke race wars.
Obama brought the GDP way up, not down.
There were job gains under Obama, not losses.
The rate of economic improvement did not change under Trump (pre-COVID).
Including Trump's ineffective response to COVID-19, we saw and continue to see economic disaster under Trump.
Economies wouldn't have been hit as hard if there had been an effective response to COVID-19 from the Trump administration.
It's not a matter of "if" Biden will win. Biden is the president-elect.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's just too bad the entire world's economies have been hit hard by peoples irrational fears regarding the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus. Either way, if Biden does win when the electoral college votes next month we'll be headed into more dark times.



As a racist like you obviously are, it must be terrible having a president that doesn't support white supremacy groups.

_On February 11, 2020, the World Health Organization announced an official *name* for the *disease* that is causing the 2019 novel *coronavirus* outbreak. The *new name* of this *disease* is *coronavirus disease* 2019, abbreviated as *COVID*-*19*. In *COVID*-*19*, 'CO' stands for 'corona,' 'VI' for '*virus*,' and 'D' for *disease*._

You've had 279 days to learn the name of the virus, but your racist mind won't let you.



gregory-samba said:


> There's both normal people and Trump filing lawsuits.



No "normal" people are filing lawsuits & I don't think Trump is personally filing them either.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

smf said:


> You've had 279 days to learn the name of the virus


Fifteen days to flatten the curve has lasted 279 days?!


----------



## Xzi (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Fifteen days to flatten the curve has lasted 279 days?!


There's that patented Trump administration efficiency for ya.  Fifteen days probably wasn't long enough to begin with, and plenty of states just ignored the lockdown altogether.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Fifteen days to flatten the curve has lasted 279 days?!


Fact check: We did flatten the curve in a lot of areas. It's the primary reason why the death rate has fallen.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Xzi said:


> There's that patented Trump administration efficiency for ya.  Fifteen days probably wasn't long enough to begin with, and plenty of states just ignored the lockdown altogether.


How long would we have to violate the 3rd Amendment, then?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Fact check: We did flatten the curve in a lot of areas. It's the primary reason why the death rate has fallen.


Does this mean we can go back to normal? Don't say that we have to wear masks until the death rate hits 0, because that's never gonna happen.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> How long would we have to violate the 3rd Amendment, then?


You apparently don't know what the Third Amendment is, since it's irrelevant to the conversation.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Does this mean we can go back to normal? Don't say that we have to wear masks until the death rate hits 0, because that's never gonna happen.


It's a mistake to go back to normal without a vaccine. So, you should continue to physical distance, wash your hands, and wear a mask.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> How long would we have to violate the 3rd Amendment, then?


Not at all...because no soldiers would be quartering in private homes without the owner's consent.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Not at all...because no soldiers would be quartering in private homes without the owner's consent.


You're right, it's actually the first amendment that lockdowns violate.


Lacius said:


> It's a mistake to go back to normal without a vaccine. So, you should continue to physical distance, wash your hands, and wear a mask.


So another five years. You must have a lot of patience.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Fifteen days to flatten the curve has lasted 279 days?!



18th March was 15 days to flatten the curve. That is 243 days ago & the curve was flattened.

If the idiots would wear face masks rather than ye-hawing about civil liberties then less people would die, but they'd rather die than admit Trump is wrong.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

smf said:


> 18th March was 15 days to flatten the curve. That is 243 days ago & the curve was flattened.
> 
> If the idiots would wear face masks rather than ye-hawing about civil liberties then less people would die, but they'd rather die than admit Trump is wrong.


There are things more important than life. Liberty is definitely one of them.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're right, it's actually the first amendment that lockdowns violate.



_The *First Amendment* provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. It protects freedom of speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances._

Lockdown doesn't affect your freedom of speech. First amendment is pretty outdated and out of touch, they didn't have zoom when they wrote it. Worshiping some ancient piece of text is brain dead.



UltraSUPRA said:


> There are things more important than life. Liberty is definitely one of them.



Since when is saving lives "oppressive"?

_liberty: the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behaviour, or political views._

You really need to grow up. It's no different to seat belts, speed limits & age restriction on drinking alcohol.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're right, it's actually the first amendment that lockdowns violate.
> 
> So another five years. You must have a lot of patience.



It probably won't be five years until we have a vaccine available to the general public.
I have the patience to wear a mask for five years because, like, it's not a hard thing to do, and I care about the lives of other human beings.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> There are things more important than life. Liberty is definitely one of them.


It's a fucking mask. You also can't talk about freedom when you prioritize not wearing a mask on your delicate little face over the freedom of people to not catch COVID-19 from assholes like you. I don't think you understand what liberty is.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're right, it's actually the first amendment that lockdowns violate.


That seems like an awfully big stretch as well, which is probably why nobody's attempted to bring that argument to court.  The purpose of lockdowns is to save lives, and thus they don't violate any part of the constitution.  Protecting its citizenry is one of the primary functions of government, so allowing infections and deaths to spike without putting any new safety measures in place or providing any financial relief to the American people is paramount to dereliction of duty.  Trump is a traitor and so is any Republican still backing him.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

Xzi said:


> That seems like an awfully big stretch as well, which is probably why nobody's attempted to bring that argument to court.



Some rebtards actually did.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendmen...d-the-first-amendment-a-running-report-may-21

A Nevada church, having lost its First Amendment case before the U.S. Supreme Court once, is trying again, reports The Associated Press via SFGate. 

The high court ruled 5-4 in July against Calvary Chapel Dayton Valley in its attempt to block a 50-person state limit on indoor church attendance. “This case is an ideal vehicle to solve the nationwide problem of government discrimination against churches in ad hoc COVID-19 orders,” church lawyers said of the new filing.

They kinda have a point about other venues being allowed more, but they should be arguing to shut them down and not open theirs up.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> It probably won't be five years until we have a vaccine available to the general public.
> I have the patience to wear a mask for five years because, like, it's not a hard thing to do, and I care about the lives of other human beings.


1. Vaccines have never been developed this quickly. I ain't trusting what they're working on if it's this close to release. We have Regeneron.
2. IT. HURTS.


Lacius said:


> It's a fucking mask. You also can't talk about freedom when you prioritize not wearing a mask on your delicate little face over the freedom of people to not catch COVID-19 from assholes like you. I don't think you understand what liberty is.


If you're _that_ scared of getting sick, you don't have to go outside. If you feel sick, you shouldn't go outside. This has been our way of life for years, why do we need to change it? Because 80% of all cases are asymptomatic? Because if anything, that means this whole thing is nothing to worry about.


smf said:


> _The *First Amendment* provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. It protects freedom of speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances._
> 
> Lockdown doesn't affect your freedom of speech.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or *the right of the people peaceably to assemble*, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.




smf said:


> Since when is saving lives "oppressive"?
> 
> _liberty: the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behaviour, or political views._


My way of life involves seeing smiling faces.


smf said:


> You really need to grow up. It's no different to seat belts, speed limits & age restriction on drinking alcohol.


"Protecting strangers from a virus with an over 99% survival rate is no different to protecting yourself from near-guaranteed death by a head-on collision or from underage drunkenness."


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

Japan has had no forced lockdowns and did less than what the US did in terms of nationwide government action.  Its citizens are just pretty obedient where a recommendation is usually good enough. People thinking Trump is going to protect Americans from themselves is just another deflection from the lack of self-responsibility people probably ought to have.  Of course, that doesn't make Japan immune, as it hasn't had to deal with the European and American strains which appear mors contagious, yet.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 2. IT. HURTS.



You're wearing it wrong if your mask hurts in caps font size 7.



UltraSUPRA said:


> *the right of the people peaceably to assemble*



You're not peaceably assembling as you're unable to prevent the spread of covid to another person.
You may not believe in covid, but that doesn't matter.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're right, it's actually the first amendment that lockdowns violate.




*The Freedom of Assembly Clause is to do with people's right to gather to demonstrate and they can be banned at time of national emergency. *
*
Its stated in the first amendment lol. *


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1. Vaccines have never been developed this quickly. I ain't trusting what they're working on if it's this close to release. We have Regeneron.
> 2. IT. HURTS.
> 
> If you're _that_ scared of getting sick, you don't have to go outside. If you feel sick, you shouldn't go outside. This has been our way of life for years, why do we need to change it? Because 80% of all cases are asymptomatic? Because if anything, that means this whole thing is nothing to worry about.
> ...


As I've said numerous times in the past without you addressing it, you cannot be against a mask mandate while also being against laws against speeding, for example. If you don't want to be hit by a speeding motorist, for example, don't go on the road. That's what you sound like.

Also, if a mask hurts, you're using the wrong one or wearing it wrong.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Japan has had no forced lockdowns and did less than what the US fid in terms of nationwide government actions. Its citizens are just pretty obedient where a recommendation is usually good enough.


Exactly, like 99.9% of you probably wore masks and socially distanced as you were asked to.



tabzer said:


> People thinking Trump is going to protect Americans from themselves is just another deflection from the lack of self-responsibility people probably ought to have.


Only Trump supporters listen to what Trump has to say, but they _really_ listen.  If he told everybody to wear masks from the start and was consistent about that message, they would've obeyed.  And Democrats would've worn masks all the same since they actually listen to science and the CDC.  So yes, Trump could have saved us from _his supporters,_ who are instead the worst superspreaders of the virus here in the US.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> *The Freedom of Assembly Clause is to do with people's right to gather to demonstrate*



People are free to demonstrate on the internet, it is safer and more effective as you don't end up with idiots ruining it by vandalizing property.



Lacius said:


> As I've said numerous times in the past without you addressing it, you cannot be against a mask mandate while also being against laws against speeding, for example. If you don't want to be hit by a speeding motorist, for example, don't go on the road. That's what you sound like.



You can't be anti-mask & anti-abortion either.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> As I've said numerous times in the past without you addressing it, you cannot be against a mask mandate while also being against laws against speeding, for example. If you don't want to be hit by a speeding motorist, for example, don't go on the road. That's what you sound like.


If you hit another car, both of you die. Speeding puts you in just as much danger as everyone who isn't.


Lacius said:


> Also, if a mask hurts, you're using the wrong one or wearing it wrong.


I've tried multiple types.

Oh, also, you seem to always ignore when I post that article from a few months back that said that the Coronavirus mutated to bypass masks.
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/covid-19-mutation-may-be-evolving-to-bypass-masks-hand-washing/


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Exactly, like 99.9% of you probably wore masks and socially distanced as you were asked to.
> 
> 
> Only Trump supporters listen to what Trump has to say, but they _really_ listen.  If he told everybody to wear masks from the start and was consistent about that message, they would've obeyed.  And Democrats would've worn masks all the same since they actually listen to science and the CDC.  So yes, Trump could have saved us from _his supporters,_ who are instead the worst superspreaders of the virus here in the US.



So many people violate social distancing here that it is unbelievable.  But part of that comes with living in super-crowded cities.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you hit another car, both of you die. Speeding puts you in just as much danger as everyone who isn't.



If you hit another person then you put your wipers on to remove their guts from your windshield.

They shouldn't have been walking on the sidewalk right?

You can't remove my liberty by saying I can't drive where I want.
Heck, I should be able to be out for a walk and shoot randomly with my eyes closed if I feel like it right?
It's not like I'm aiming at people with the intention of killing them.

If you don't like it stay indoors. It's not my fault you get in the way.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you hit another car, both of you die. Speeding puts you in just as much danger as everyone who isn't.
> 
> I've tried multiple types.
> 
> ...


The article says it may have not that it has


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you hit another car, both of you die. Speeding puts you in just as much danger as everyone who isn't.
> 
> I've tried multiple types.
> 
> ...


If you don't wear a mask, you put your health and the health of others at risk. It's analogous to speeding.

Fact check: The COVID-19 virus has not evolved to bypass masks and hand-washing. I wasn't aware you even believed in evolution.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If you don't wear a mask, you put your health and the health of others at risk. It's analogous to speeding.


Yeah, a 99.997% survival rate for anyone under the age of twenty. How scary.


Lacius said:


> Fact check: The COVID-19 virus has not evolved to bypass masks and hand-washing.


*no source*


Lacius said:


> I wasn't aware you even believed in evolution.


It's adapting, not evolving.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 16, 2020)

@Xzi I know you liked my comment but it is a terrible thing.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's adapting, not evolving.



*Adaptation*
Evolutionary adaptation, or simply adaptation, is the adjustment of organisms to their environment in order to improve their chances at survival in that environment.

It's evolving, like we did (your imaginary god did not create us).


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yeah, a 99.997% survival rate for anyone under the age of twenty. How scary.


About a 1% death rate when you include all age groups. All age groups can spread the disease. Young people without health issues have died from COVID-19, despite the odds being low. Oh, and 244,000 Americans are dead, and that's with masks and physical distancing. Yes, how scary.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not afraid of COVID-19. However, it should be taken seriously.



UltraSUPRA said:


> *no source*


You made the positive claim. Put up or shut up.



UltraSUPRA said:


> It's adapting, not evolving.


In science, there's no distinction.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You understand how inertia works, right? If anything, you're putting yourself into _more_ danger than everyone else by speeding.



I can guarantee that driving into a pedestrian at 40mph will hurt them more than it would hurt me.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

Xzi said:
			
		

> That seems like an awfully big stretch as well, which is probably why nobody's attempted to bring that argument to court. The purpose of lockdowns is to save lives, and thus they don't violate any part of the constitution. Protecting its citizenry is one of the primary functions of government, so allowing infections and deaths to spike without putting any new safety measures in place or providing any financial relief to the American people is paramount to dereliction of duty. Trump is a traitor and so is any Republican still backing him.



Yet your side has no issues allowing hundreds of thousands of protesters and partiers to forgo the lockdown and quarantine rules when they feel like it. You're a hypocrite.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> Some rebtards actually did.
> 
> https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendmen...d-the-first-amendment-a-running-report-may-21
> 
> ...


Yet your side has no issues allowing hundreds of thousands of protesters and partiers to forgo the lockdown and quarantine rules when they feel like it. You're a hypocrite.



			
				tabzer said:
			
		

> Japan has had no forced lockdowns and did less than what the US did in terms of nationwide government action. Its citizens are just pretty obedient where a recommendation is usually good enough. People thinking Trump is going to protect Americans from themselves is just another deflection from the lack of self-responsibility people probably ought to have. Of course, that doesn't make Japan immune, as it hasn't had to deal with the European and American strains which appear mors contagious, yet.



Lack of any personal responsibility is cherished by the Leftist Liberals.



			
				lacuis said:
			
		

> Yes, but we are talking about the systemic oppression of Black people in this country.



So am I. If you haven't noticed institutions can't think and they are not people or have brains. It's the humans that make up the Government that are either racist or not. Systemic racism is just another way to say people are racist as it boils down to the individual being racist or not. I know your kind doesn't like the individual to have rights and I know you don't like to blame single people when it's your side getting blamed, but it does indeed boil down to each persons own actions. Systemic racism is just another word for normal racism and if you haven't noticed your side fought a war to keep their slaves, they started the KKK after losing that war to harass and intimidate Republican Blacks from voting and recently created the set of Jim Crowe Laws that gave blacks shitty treatment. Your side has also been on a hate white people kick for some years too. You're all just a bunch of racists regardless of how you want to say "racist".



			
				tabzer said:
			
		

> I'm just having a ball with this. This is gbatemp.net, the only place on the internet where everything can and is exploited, except politics and voting machines. I cannot be the only one thinking this.



These Liberals here on this forum know damn well the polling machines, the software and the people can be rigged or cheat, it's just they don't want to admit it. They want people on their side to cheat. Liberals value dishonestly.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> As a racist like you obviously are, it must be terrible having a president that doesn't support white supremacy groups.



You're the people who treat whites differently then blacks or browns and then have the audacity to call our side racist. Even though the dumb Liberals like to call everyone that disagrees with them the "far right", the actual far right is much, much smaller than the far left and is mostly made up of neo nazi's or racists and pale in comparison to the number of radical liberals there are. We don't condone racism and you do.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Edit: To be clear, I'm not afraid of COVID-19. However, it should be taken seriously.



I'm not afraid of covid19, rebtards that refuse to wear masks make me afraid for the future of the human race.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> About a 1% death rate when you include all age groups.


1%.

One. Percent.

I know of mental illnesses that are deadlier than that, and they're celebrated.


Lacius said:


> All age groups can spread the disease.


Well, yeah. It's a disease.


Lacius said:


> Young people without health issues have died from COVID-19, despite the odds being low.


Obesity is a health issue.


Lacius said:


> Oh, and 244,000 Americans are dead, and that's with masks and physical distancing. Yes, how scary.


Across ten months. Only 623 Americans died from COVID yesterday.


Lacius said:


> You made the positive claim. Put up or shut up.


I already did.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Yet your side has no issues allowing hundreds of thousands of protesters and partiers to forgo the lockdown and quarantine rules when they feel like it. You're a hypocrite.



I'm only responsible for myself, I personally think the BLM marches and celebrations when Biden won the election were wrong. So don't call me a hypocrit. I didn't pick a side then blindly sign up to believe every thing they told me, the way you frame your accusation it would seem you think that is normal to do that.



UltraSUPRA said:


> I know of mental illnesses that are deadlier than that, and they're celebrated.



Voting republican?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Obesity is a health issue.



Yes it is. But young people with no health issues (and therefore not obese) have died.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

smf said:


> I'm only responsible for myself


This is my stance on COVID.


smf said:


> Voting republican?


I'm talking more along the lines of 41%.


smf said:


> Yes it is. But young people with no health issues have died.


Put up or shut up.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're the people who treat whites differently then blacks or browns and then have the audacity to call our side racist.



I'm the "people"? I'm one person, I don't treat anyone differently. You might feel singled out because people want to ban all your racist shit, but I don't treat anyone different.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 1%.
> 
> One. Percent.


When we are talking about a disease that will infect about everyone if left unchecked, that's a lot of death. If we did no masks and no physical distancing, that would be over 3 million deaths in the United States alone. When you consider how overwhelmed hospitals would be, that number would probably be much higher.



UltraSUPRA said:


> I know of mental illnesses that are deadlier than that, and they're celebrated.


I'm unaware of a deadly mental illness that's celebrated. What are you referring to?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Obesity is a health issue.


Yes it is, which increases the chances of dying from COVID-19, even while young.



UltraSUPRA said:


> Across ten months. Only 623 Americans died from COVID yesterday.



That's a lot of people in one day.
That number is increasing, and it will likely skyrocket as hospitals begin to be strained for resources again. The current projection is over 2,000 deaths most days in January.
Sundays and Mondays are low reporting days, and that's one of the reasons why it's important to look at 7-day averages, not single days. There were 1,324 deaths the day before yesterday, for example.


----------



## smf (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm talking more along the lines of 41%.



Is this a riddle?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Put up or shut up.



https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937e4.htm

_Persons aged <21 years constitute 26% of the U.S. population (4), and this report describes characteristics of U.S. persons in that population who died in association with SARS-CoV-2 infection, as reported by public health jurisdictions. Among 121 SARS-CoV-2–associated deaths reported to CDC among persons aged <21 years in the United States during February 12–July 31, 2020, 63% occurred in males, 10% of decedents were aged <1 year, 20% were aged 1–9 years, 70% were aged 10–20 years, 45% were Hispanic persons, 29% were non-Hispanic Black (Black) persons, and 4% were non-Hispanic American Indian or Alaska Native (AI/AN) persons. Among these 121 decedents, 91 (75%) had an underlying medical condition,* 79 (65%) died after admission to a hospital, and 39 (32%) died at home or in the emergency department (ED)._

25% had no underlying health condition.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 16, 2020)

smf said:
			
		

> I'm only responsible for myself, I personally think the BLM marches and celebrations when Biden won the election were wrong. So don't call me a hypocrit. I didn't pick a side then blindly sign up to believe every thing they told me, the way you frame your accusation it would seem you think that is normal to do that.



That's good you claim you don't blindly follow what your leaders and media tell you to think, believe and be outraged by. However, you'd have fooled me because you act just like the rest of the liberals do.



			
				UltraSUPRA said:
			
		

> This is my stance on COVID.



There's so much hypocrisy coming from the left that they don't even try to be consistent any more. They just do what makes them feel good or whatever they want to do. They spent most of this year shaming and getting people arrested for gathering in groups and then say fuck it and go gather in groups hundreds of times larger whenever they feel like it. They fucking know they are wrong and they just don't care.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> I'm the "people"? I'm one person, I don't treat anyone differently. You might feel singled out because people want to ban all your racist shit, but I don't treat anyone different.



Yes, you and the rest of the Liberals. You also keep claiming I'm racist yet I'm not a Liberal. So that wouldn't make much sense. Me being racist and all.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Wow, a whole 121 people. That's some big ass sample size that you know, reflects the entire population. /s


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> When we are talking about a disease that will infect about everyone if left unchecked, that's a lot of death. If we did no masks and no physical distancing, that would be over 3 million deaths in the United States alone. When you consider how overwhelmed hospitals would be, that number would probably be much higher.


No cost is too great.


Lacius said:


> I'm unaware of a deadly mental illness that's celebrated. What are you referring to?


41% of all trans people commit suicide.


Lacius said:


> Yes it is, which increases the chances of dying from COVID-19, even while young.


The same can be said for any disease.


Lacius said:


> That's a lot of people in one day.
> That number is increasing, and it will likely skyrocket as hospitals begin to be strained for resources again. The current projection is over 2,000 deaths most days in January.
> Sundays and Mondays are low reporting numbers, and that's one of the reasons why it's important to look at 7-day averages, not single days. There were 1,324 deaths the day before yesterday, for example.


1. A lot of people? Sure, but it's barely a dent in the national daily general death rate.
2. Yes, they're growing, but not at the same rate as cases.
3. Sundays and Mondays are low-reporting numbers? I suppose we don't have to wear masks during those days, then.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great.
> 
> 41% of all trans people commit suicide.
> 
> ...



Being trans is not a mental illness.
No, 41% of trans people don't kill themselves.
Higher suicide rates among the LGBT community are due to society's mistreatment of these groups. In other words, assholes like you who call being trans a mental illness are to blame for high suicide rates. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Hundreds of deaths a day (it's more like 1,000+ a day, and it will probably hit 2,000 a day soonish) is too many. You already said earlier you don't care about the lives of strangers.
The death rate is not going up at the same rate as cases. However, as cases go up, hospitalizations go up. As hospitalizations go up, the death rate eventually skyrockets as hospitals are low on resources.
Sundays and Mondays are low reporting days, not low infection rate days. Use your brain.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 41% of all trans people commit suicide.
> 
> .



That is an utter bullshit claim the figure worldwide sits at 3% of trans people commit suicide. The figures for gays that commit suicide is 2.5% and the same for straight people. The only country in the world that has a trans suicide rate of 40% is America which funnily enough is ranked as one of the most transpobic countries in the world so I wounder why the suicide rate is so high hmmm.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> That is an utter bullshit claim the figure worldwide sits at 3% of trans people commit suicide. The figures for gays that commit suicide is 2.5% and the same for straight people. The only country in the world that has a trans suicide rate of 40% is America which funnily enough is ranked as one of the most transpobic countries in the world so I wounder why the suicide rate is so high hmmm.


For the record, the 41% number in the US is attempts, not actual suicides. But, way too high a number, and we know that number wouldn't be any higher than the general public's if it weren't for transphobes like him.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great.


you wouldnt care if your parents or grandparents died because of covid?


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 16, 2020)

41% of all trans people (in America) try to commit suicide, and yet people in here are claiming it's not a mental illness. Cuckoo. Yeah because it's normal to try and kill yourself.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 16, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> regarding the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus.


That's a lot of effort to write that every single time than just saying virus or covid.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> 41% of all trans people (in America) try to commit suicide, and yet people in here are claiming it's not a mental illness. Cuckoo. Yeah because it's normal to try and kill yourself.


its a mental illness driving people to suicide


----------



## Xzi (Nov 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So many people violate social distancing here that it is unbelievable.  But part of that comes with living in super-crowded cities.





tabzer said:


> @Xzi I know you liked my comment but it is a terrible thing.


We do what we can.  I know how crazy the population density is in a lot of Japan's cities, but it does help that almost all of the close contact is outdoors, and that nearly everybody is wearing masks.  Also, my state and a number of others already have an app which utilizes bluetooth to tell you if you've been exposed to an infected individual.  I imagine Japan had something like that way before us, and has much higher voluntary enrollment rates in it.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> 41% of all trans people (in America) try to commit suicide, and yet people in here are claiming it's not a mental illness. Cuckoo. Yeah because it's normal to try and kill yourself.


Being trans is literally not a mental illness. LGBT people have increased rates of suicide because of the way they're treated by homophobes and transphobes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ut2k4master said:


> you wouldnt care if your parents or grandparents died because of covid?


He doesn't care about people in general, and he already admitted it that strangers don't matter because they're strangers.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Being trans is literally not a mental illness. LGBT people have increased rates of suicide because of the way they're treated by homophobes and transphobes.



Yeah this is bullshit. Show me the stats, then cross it with stats of non trans people who are bullied or try to commit suicide. To say "yeah they just try to kill themselves coz of homophobes" is pathetic and totally disregards the fact they have a mental illness. Do you think 41% of people who are bullied try to commit suicide? Maybe they do, I'd like to see the stats. Back up your claim that 41% of trans people try to kill themselves based solely on being bullied by homophobes and transphobes.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

So to all you saying its a mental illness let me explain the whole process you need to go through to transition. Sure it may be different round the world but its mostly follows the same process that we have in Scotland which is.

Two years and sometimes more of evaluation and various tests by a psychiatrist to check you DON'T have a mental illness. Once they are convinced you DON'T have a mental illness then have to face a panel of another 5 psychiatrists and you only get 3 hours to convince all 5 that you don't have any mental illnesses. Pass then its still not over as more tests are done by the first psychiatrist until you eventually get your meeting with the Scottish Minister for Health who you once again have to convince that you DON'T have a mental illness. If she says yes then you join the waiting list for GRS. And while you wait you guessed it more tests.

And that is just the condensed version of events. And that is why I get defensive with the whole it's a mental disorder thing. I have probably had more tests done to me than 99% of the temp members and therefore I feel safe in saying I am mentally stable unlike some on this site.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Yeah this is bullshit. Show me the stats, then cross it with stats of non trans people who are bullied or try to commit suicide. To say "yeah they just try to kill themselves coz of homophobes" is pathetic and totally disregards the fact they have a mental illness. Do you think 41% of people who are bullied try to commit suicide? Maybe they do, I'd like to see the stats. Back up your claim that 41% of trans people try to kill themselves based solely on being bullied by homophobes and transphobes.


Do some research before spouting what just feels true, because it's just going to embarrass you when you don't. Trans youth experience unprecedented family rejection, homelessness because of the aforementioned family rejection, bullying, harassment, issues affecting physical safety, etc. LGBT youth are more than twice as likely to be homeless.

https://www.hrc.org/news/new-study-reveals-shocking-rates-of-attempted-suicide-among-trans-adolescen

https://transequality.org/issues/housing-homelessness

"One in five transgender people in the United States has been discriminated when seeking a home, and more than one in ten have been evicted from their homes, because of their gender identity."


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Yeah this is bullshit. Show me the stats, then cross it with stats of non trans people who are bullied or try to commit suicide. To say "yeah they just try to kill themselves coz of homophobes" is pathetic and totally disregards the fact they have a mental illness. Do you think 41% of people who are bullied try to commit suicide? Maybe they do, I'd like to see the stats. Back up your claim that 41% of trans people try to kill themselves based solely on being bullied by homophobes and transphobes.


Here is the stats if you want more I can easily provide them

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Do some research before spouting what just feels true, because it's just going to embarrass you when you don't. Trans youth experience unprecedented family rejection, homelessness because of the aforementioned family rejection, bullying, harassment, issues affecting physical safety, etc. LGBT youth are more than twice as likely to be homeless.
> 
> https://www.hrc.org/news/new-study-reveals-shocking-rates-of-attempted-suicide-among-trans-adolescen



What's homelessness got to do with it, why does the left try and victimise everyone. Anybody can experience family rejection homelessness bullying harassment etc, literally anyone. None of this changes the fact that if 41% of trans people try and kill themselves, and its not 41% for those who aren't trans, well maybe theres a mental issue there. Just kidding LOL everybody's a victim, my bad.




AmandaRose said:


> Here is the stats you want more I can easily provide them
> 
> https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/



I'm asking for the suicide rates between non trans and trans and the direct link that being trans and being bullied by non trans people is directly responsible to their suicide attempts.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> What's homelessness got to do with it, why does the left try and victimise everyone. Anybody can experience family rejection homelessness bullying harassment etc, literally anyone. None of this changes the fact that if 41% of trans people try and kill themselves, and its not 41% for those who aren't trans, well maybe theres a mental issue there. Just kidding LOL everybody's a victim, my bad.


Lol at "what does being kicked out of your home by your parents have to do with youth suicide rates?"

Grow up.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Here is the stats you want more I can easily provide them
> 
> https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/



I'm asking for the suicide rates between non trans and trans and the direct link that being trans and being bullied by non trans people is directly responsible to their suicide attempts.


Lacius said:


> Lol at "what does being kicked out of your home by your parents have to do with youth suicide rates?"
> 
> Grow up.



Because only trans people get kicked out. Being kicked out doesn't equate a mental illness. Many people are kicked out and are far stronger for it.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I'm asking for the suicide rates between non trans and trans and the direct link that being trans and being bullied by non trans people is directly responsible to their suicide attempts.
> 
> 
> Because only trans people get kicked out. Being kicked out doesn't equate a mental illness. Many people are kicked out and are far stronger for it.


Trans youth are kicked out of their homes far more often than their non-trans counterparts. The data is clear about that. There are literal LGBT youth shelters because of it.

Do you live under a rock, or are you willfully stupid?


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 16, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Trans youth are kicked out of their homes far more often than their non-trans counterparts. The data is clear about that. There are literal LGBT youth shelters because of it.
> 
> Do you live under a rock, or are you willfully stupid?



There are literal youth shelters for everything. Nothing you've said proves trans people try and commit suicide only because of transphobes which was your original claim. Absolutely nothing, maybe instead of coming up with flimsy excuses about how it's everyone elses fault, they should seek help and have mental wellness checks. That could cut down on apparently suicide attemps. Or you could just blame everyone else, that's good also.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 16, 2020)

Just so I am clear, I don't mean to come off as rude with @shamzie and others. It's often not fair to condemn mere ignorance. But, there's no excuse for stubbornly arguing idiotic positions. It demonstrates poor judgement and a willful ignorance. If he doesn't know what he's talking about, he should listen, not blather on about something he's ignorant about.



shamzie said:


> There are literal youth shelters for everything. Nothing you've said proves trans people try and commit suicide only because of transphobes which was your original claim. Absolutely nothing, maybe instead of coming up with flimsy excuses about how it's everyone elses fault, they should seek help and have mental wellness checks. That could cut down on apparently suicide attemps. Or you could just blame everyone else, that's good also.


You clearly didn't check my sources. There's no mystery with regard to why trans people are killing themselves.

Edit: instead of waiting for my post just so you can get your next word in, actually read my posts and check my links. You'll learn something and become a better person for it.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Yeah this is bullshit. Show me the stats, then cross it with stats of non trans people who are bullied or try to commit suicide. To say "yeah they just try to kill themselves coz of homophobes" is pathetic and totally disregards the fact they have a mental illness. Do you think 41% of people who are bullied try to commit suicide? Maybe they do, I'd like to see the stats. Back up your claim that 41% of trans people try to kill themselves based solely on being bullied by homophobes and transphobes.


Goes a little further than bullying there champ. 

LGBTQ+  people are thrown out of their homes by their own family and made to feel like it is there own fault for something they couldn't help more than breathing or that they are monsters/abominations for it. 

There are some that straight up won't do business with them and on top of that living in a society where they are constantly made out to be freaks, perverts, or pedos/child molesters on top of being outright beaten or even killed for being who they are.

Maybe try being just a bit empathetic and try to understand people's troubles before you just oversimplify it in the future.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 16, 2020)

shamzie said:


> There are literal youth shelters for everything. Nothing you've said proves trans people try and commit suicide only because of transphobes which was your original claim. Absolutely nothing, maybe instead of coming up with flimsy excuses about how it's everyone elses fault, they should seek help and have mental wellness checks. That could cut down on apparently suicide attemps. Or you could just blame everyone else, that's good also.


Or you could stop being a lazy prick and look up the violent crime rates directed at trans people yourself.  They're literally the most targeted group in America, even by Trump administration numbers.  But why am I trying to convince you, you're a prime example of intolerance born from ignorance and insecurity.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 17, 2020)

The thing that is actual a mental disorder is having a lack of empathy. 



Lacius said:


> He doesn't care about people in general, and he already admitted it that strangers don't matter because they're strangers.


How does one admit this and think they are on the right "side"?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> The thing that is actual a mental disorder is having a lack of empathy.
> 
> 
> How does one admit this and think they are on the right "side"?


He's a child. He might not even comprehend death yet.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> He's a child. He might not even comprehend death yet.


Honestly asking, is this a valid excuse? Like do kids tend to act this way? Complete disregard of other people?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Honestly asking, is this a valid excuse? Like do kids tend to act this way? Complete disregard of other people?


It's not a valid excuse, but I see it in my line of work. They sometimes grow out of it.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Or you could stop being a lazy prick and look up the violent crime rates directed at trans people yourself.  They're literally the most targeted group in America, even by Trump administration numbers.  But why am I trying to convince you, you're a prime example of intolerance born from ignorance and insecurity.



What part of my post displayed insecurity? What part displayed intolerance. I said they should get the mental health checks they need so they don't try and kill themselves. Just because you get all emotional and insulting doesn't make you correct, look I can do it too you foul mothed fucking dickhead. See how easy that was. Cunt.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

shamzie said:


> What part of my post displayed insecurity? What part displayed intolerance. I said they should get the mental health checks they need so they don't try and kill themselves. Just because you get all emotional and insulting doesn't make you correct, look I can do it too you foul mothed fucking dickhead. See how easy that was. Cunt.


You've inarguably demonstrated prejudice with your posts. Read my posts and educate yourself, and the world will become a slightly better place.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> you wouldnt care if your parents or grandparents died because of covid?


My parents agree with me. My grandparents survived without a scratch. Try again.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You've inarguably demonstrated prejudice with your posts. Read my posts and educate yourself, and the world will become a slightly better place.



No I really haven't, not conforming too your world view on every little thing doesn't make me prejudice racist a bigot a xenephobe transphobic or any other of your lefty buzzwords you all like to spout out. I showed compassion for people with mental health issues who try to kill themselves. Nothing more.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

shamzie said:


> No I really haven't, not conforming too your world view on every little thing doesn't make me prejudice racist a bigot a xenephobe transphobic or any other of your lefty buzzwords you all like to spout out. I showed compassion for people with mental health issues who try to kill themselves. Nothing more.


The fact that you keep calling a group of people with an immutable characteristic "mentally ill" when they literally and demonstrably are not mentally ill is prejudice. Like, by definition.

We've already explained why suicide rates are higher among the LGBT community. You're the one who has his fingers in his ears screaming lalala.

I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient for your transphobic worldview.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> We do what we can.  I know how crazy the population density is in a lot of Japan's cities, but it does help that almost all of the close contact is outdoors, and that nearly everybody is wearing masks.  Also, my state and a number of others already have an app which utilizes bluetooth to tell you if you've been exposed to an infected individual.  I imagine Japan had something like that way before us, and has much higher voluntary enrollment rates in it.



People still pack like sardines into the subway.  In offices and schools, people will still touch are talk directly to your face--kids will do the former while adults and kids alike will do the latter.  People rarely cover their mouths when they cough and sneeze.  It's Japanese culture to really let let them out as loud as you can to, as if to make sure everything is ejected with as much velocity as possible.  In the initial phase of the situation, schools were delayed in reopening and many businesses changed hours and policies.  People practiced social distancing.  It has regressed though.  I think it is miraculous that the situation is not as not as bad as reported in other places.  I think the difference in strains might be a big reason, but of course Japanese people don't have an aversion to masks, as it is already a customary attitude.  I'm sure that the mandatory imposition of masks would have an opposite effect.  You can't really control others without creating further complications.  You can only really just try to be careful and take care of yourself and others who are receptive to help.

As a side note, the Japanese government is not allowed to enforce shutdowns.  Delays in school reopenings were decided by their respective ministries while businesses made the choices for themselves.  The Japanese government was allowed to make the recommendation and offered different types of recompensation which helped some, but it bred a whole new type of scamming which takes advantage of it.


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 17, 2020)

Do you people still think that Joe Biden is president?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Do you people still think that Joe Biden is president?


Yes. Most people believe, despite heavy evidence toward the contrary, that voter fraud can never impact an election.


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yes. Most people believe, despite heavy evidence toward the contrary, that voter fraud can never impact an election.


 Odd I thought it was obvious by now. I suspected that after the media told everyone that Joe Biden was president they would do some research and find evidence to the contrary

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> I
> 
> lol soo true and the proud boys are like the kkk but without all that swag.  Got to love those hats.


 How can you be pro Antifa when they are a group of people who stab people with beliefs that conflict with theirs

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Taxation is theft


----------



## Redhorse (Nov 17, 2020)

As I'm sure has already been said..

_D.J. Trump You're Fired! _

Taking a Dump IS Voting for Trump!
I always said he proved this statement true... "_It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt_."

Ain't no hiden' from fighten' Joe Biden!


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 17, 2020)

Redhorse said:


> As I'm sure has already been said..
> 
> _D.J. Trump You're Fired! _
> 
> ...


 Joe Biden is not president yet do you really think this?


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 17, 2020)

This thread is a prime example why we need a "dislike" option


----------



## Xzi (Nov 17, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> Joe Biden is not president yet do you really think this?


Here we see the Trumpette in its natural habitat, assuming the role of victim and letting fly its native screech.  "REEE, REEE, THIS ELECTION STILL ISN'T OVER, REEE!"  The enraged Trumpette can be heard for miles, echoing deep into the night.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 17, 2020)

Trumps funny moments


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> First, no it isn't. Second, the United States is actually pretty bad at social mobility, regardless of whether or not the initial low socioeconomic status was caused by systemic oppression.
> 
> Although it's not always the case, generally speaking, poor families stay poor and rich families stay rich.


This is agreeable considering systemic oppression runs deeper then racism.



gregory-samba said:


> Indeed. Most of the people I'm referring to are on food stamps, get utility assistance and a lot of them get Section 8 (HUD) rental assistance. A lot of them simply trade their food stamps for beer and drugs and are so uneducated they probably couldn't cook meals if they did spent their food money on something healthy. It angers me when it comes to how they treat their kids. I could care less that they are fat, lazy pieces of shit, but that's no reason to have your kids go hungry. They think other people should feed their kids and that's fucked. Then their kids go hungry, see their parents doing drugs and not working and then that's how they grow up and act.


These people are probably the wrong kind of poor to make example of. Either that they are trying to hide that they are poor due to social stigmas of being poor. I'm not denying that they exist and perhaps abuses the system but keep in mind that there are those that are actually poor and some don't even have kid(s). There are legitimate poor people actually needs these things just to survive, mainly the unrepresentative or underrepresented minorities that largely gets ignored. Also the system is design to keep them poor, heck they are not even allowed to save money for the rainy day or anything else, or else they either lose their benefit, their health insurance, or both. Every programs out their that supposed to help people get to home ownership are a joke, because these people will not qualify enough to even get one foot into the door, even with loans like USDA. Also consider with some seniors, their raise that they sometimes get annually, gets canceled out by the medicare premiums, thus keeping them in worst off shape because they have even less money to spend on the economy due to inflation. I should also mentioned that depending on the benefit type, the people are not even allowed to get married or again they lose the aforementioned things.


----------



## cokeman118 (Nov 17, 2020)

since were talking statistics... 

the total number of US covid-19 deaths is 0.07% of the total US population.
the total number of suicide deaths is 0.014% of total US population
the total number of transgender people is 0.6% of total US population (estimated, not actual)
the total number of transgender violent deaths is 0.00215 % of estimated transgender population and 0.00001 % of total US population


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Fact check:
> 
> There's no reason to think we will have "dark times" when Biden is president.
> There's no reason to think things will "get worse than when Obama was president."
> ...


Four likes for nonsense?

ad 1: You have an inactive President in play at a time where Covid economical impact will hit full force, that just appointed an industry lobbyist as chief of staff.

ad 2: That had in his program a pledge not to raise taxes for people with up to 400k of yearly income, when with Obama it was 200k. This means no effective tax raises for any programs whatsoever. So anything you plan to do that costs big money, has to be debt financed, or financed through corporate taxes, we know aint happening. Also, thats a structural claim, that makes no sense. Except if you 'believe'.

ad 4: GDP is not a measure anymore that tells you how main street is doing. Financial gains have been decoupled from 'real' economic gains, and were responsible for most of GDP gain in the last 40 years. Also Obama watched over the Wall Street bailout after the 2008 financial market crisis, which tanked GDP - temporarily.

ad 5: In absolute numbers, there are always job gains (even through the worst stock market crash since the 1920s (?)), because your country is growing (immigration). Thats a platitude, you have to be more specific.

ad 6: Important point, but there are better ways to make it. 'No rate change' can actually be an achievement. (Generally speaking, not necessarily in this case.)

ad 7: True, but you increased competitiveness towards other economies, and now have more options for the coming months probably (can be argued, that you always had more options, because you can print USD). Also, there was no scenario in which Covid-19 could have been 'controlled' in the US pretty much since the beginning. Doesnt mean, you shouldnt try to mitigate it. (Reduce deaths.)

ad 8: Wrong. Corp america was on the side of 'keep the economy open for as long as possible'.

How does that get you 4 likes? Because it sounds good?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 17, 2020)

only in murica could they turn an election into a fucking circus


----------



## tabzer (Nov 17, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> only in murica could they turn an election into a fucking circus



It's a hallmark. 



notimp said:


> How does that get you 4 likes? Because it sounds good?



It sounds authoritative and makes people who are uncertain feel more comfortable.  Also, "[email protected]$$ Trump."


----------



## smf (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> When we are talking about a disease that will infect about everyone if left unchecked, that's a lot of death. If we did no masks and no physical distancing, that would be over 3 million deaths in the United States alone. When you consider how overwhelmed hospitals would be, that number would probably be much higher.



You're assuming that the 1% is a one time deal, but you can catch covid19 a second time and have it worse.
We don't have enough evidence yet to calculate what the death toll could be.




gregory-samba said:


> That's good you claim you don't blindly follow what your leaders and media tell you to think, believe and be outraged by. However, you'd have fooled me because you act just like the rest of the liberals do.



You're easily fooled then, go build another strawman.



gregory-samba said:


> There's so much hypocrisy coming from the left that they don't even try to be consistent any more. They just do what makes them feel good or whatever they want to do. They spent most of this year shaming and getting people arrested for gathering in groups and then say fuck it and go gather in groups hundreds of times larger whenever they feel like it. They fucking know they are wrong and they just don't care.



Everyone is a hypocrit. You just lack the self awareness to see it in yourself. Because you just do whatever makes you feel good and whatever you want to do.



gregory-samba said:


> Yes, you and the rest of the Liberals. You also keep claiming I'm racist yet I'm not a Liberal. So that wouldn't make much sense. Me being racist and all.



Well you keep calling it China Wuhan Virus, so yeah it makes sense to call you a racist.
Liberals can be racist too, the difference is they try to not be and change.
While you embrace it and say there is nothing wrong with the statements you make.




gregory-samba said:


> Wow, a whole 121 people. That's some big ass sample size that you know, reflects the entire population. /s



You claimed that no young people died without underlying health conditions. I disagreed.
You told me to prove it. I did.



UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great.



I think you misunderstand what you are saying.

No cost, whether it's masks or lockdown, is too great. Right?

But you're arguing in all your posts as if the cost is too great.



gregory-samba said:


> 3. Sundays and Mondays are low-reporting numbers? I suppose we don't have to wear masks during those days, then.



No, it means the paper work doesn't get done on those days & they don't back date them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Yes. Most people believe, despite heavy evidence toward the contrary, that voter fraud can never impact an election.



It's not whether voter fraud could never impact an election, there is no evidence that voter fraud has impacted a US election.

Trump has claimed there was definitely fraud (because he doesn't understand why he might lose) without any evidence and loads of idiots have believed him. Now it's possible that there was fraud, it's possible that the majority of votes for Trump were fraudulent.

But claiming it without any evidence makes you look unreliable. They threw out testimony from one of the observers because he had posted on social media before the election that it was going to be fraudulent, although his testimony was pretty idiotic as well. He claimed that he just kept seeing votes for Biden, when that is what you would see if there were loads of legitimate votes for Biden. As he had already drawn his conclusion before the event and there was no real evidence, then he was an unreliable witness.

Trump lost the election because he is a criminal. A lot of people don't like their president to be a criminal.


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 17, 2020)

shamzie said:


> There are literal youth shelters for everything.


Youth shelters that are aimed a specific population are not the norm, and if there are youth shelters aimed at specific populations these are in cities where there are there is an alarming rate of homeless youth such Seattle  or Vancouver where it is possible to have multiple shelters.
But even then there are reasons as to why trans youth and other at-risk youth would avoid shelters. Youth shelters are commonly not long term solutions, they're short term solutions until the youth can get their own social worker and then the shelter's case manager, director, and the youth's social worker try to come to a conclusion. First option is always family reconciliation. And to even be admitted into a shelter you have to get consent from your parent or guardian, and once that parent knows a certain youth is a shelter nothing is stopping them from initiating a runway youth report and unless there is physical abuse is happening there's nothing that can be done.

Long term youth shelters exist, but they're a last resort option. 

And no youth shelters does not negate the trauma trans youth or any youth faces.


----------



## Dansteel (Nov 17, 2020)

I see Biden is already assembling a team full of war monger$   

Top tip - Start investing in companies that have contracts in arms supply to fund your next gen consoles (yes plural, you'll be able to afford them all)  

Obama partly responsible for the Yemeni genocide. Arming terrorists via Operation Timber Sycamore. Yet nobody can fathom out the real reason they made you hate and get rid of Trump 

Depleted uranium causing birth defects in the middle east =  
Trump boasting he can grab gold digging women's pussy and generally not acting presidential  = 

Dear oh dear America


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Dansteel said:


> Depleted uranium causing birth defects in the middle east =


You must have watched too much RT... 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/14/the-united-states-used-depleted-uranium-in-syria/

https://web.archive.org/web/2020110...united-states-used-depleted-uranium-in-syria/

350 vehicles in the western dessert. Depleted uranium used for 'armor piercing quality'.

Otherwise banned as a weapon from armed conflict (international treaties). We know the US doesnt care about those (american exceptionalism), but its not like you go around and poison populations throughout an entire war. Like in 2003.

Same trick is done in terms of russian support of the 'peace movement'. Overexaggerate moral claims. Thats the MO of RT 24/7. 

Also pretty much the same trick as behind "babykillers, killing them babies" (the US pro choice debate).


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> My parents agree with me. My grandparents survived without a scratch. Try again.


you didnt answer the question


----------



## Dansteel (Nov 17, 2020)

If you dont like your president over his lack of eloquence, then you need to be anti-war as a minimum with all the crimes that are inevitably committed. 

The Military Industrial Complex got rid of Trump, they couldn't care less about his character quirks. I'm not calling them flaws, as war should be our main concern (well it is for the poor people in the Middle East) and his haters were claiming his 'flaws' would start another war. On the contrary.

Also notice how the so-called 'desperate refugees'  never actually make out of their countries as they're either too frail, sick or injured.  Yet another accusation at Trump was that he was r#cist for being tough on immigration.
Well tough luck all the genuine refugees. The west only want your fittest.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Dansteel said:


> If you dont like your president over his lack of eloquence, then you need to be anti-war as a minimum with all the crimes that are inevitably committed.
> 
> The Military Industrial Complex got rid of Trump, they couldn't care less about his character quirks. I'm not calling them flaws, as war should be our main concern (well it is for the poor people in the Middle East) and his haters were claiming his 'flaws' would start another war. On the contrary.


'You need to be anti war.' Wow, so much easy. As if the world would be seen through the eye of an eternal six year old. Why do you need to be anti war? Because of the crimes inevitably committed.

Moral guideline.

Wait, let me consult with my moral authority figure for a moment. The religious representative.

Yeah, they say this checks out. Except for crusades against infidels though, you are supposed to follow those. Because they are moral.

Also reminded me of the separation of state and religion, which I dont quite know, why its there. I'm certain you do have to follow moral rule though. Thats what my religious representative also tells me.

(Even if it hasnt been a guiding principle of foreign policy for the past 200 years at least.)

He tells me I should organize protest movement in the name of secular peace movement, that has all the trappings of a religious organization, but is secular for sure.

Also I'm pretty sure 'Obama' (The anticrist) dint arm 'a people' and that was the decision of his foreign policy department, which at best he didnt veto...  
-

Also - the military industrial complex didnt axe trump for not going to war. He rearmed the entire sector. He raised military spending. He made arms deals in the middle east. Significant arms deals some people for some reason wanted to call 'peace deals'. (Between parties, that never have been at war - period.)

West only wants the 'fittest' immigrants is actually correct though. Although thats industry interests. Which pay more bills than humanitarian interests. Which in the standard economic model helps out everyone (in the west).

Issue - if you have qualification gaps you end up with a larger proportion of people whose outlook is to 'open a local store' than your economy needs. As a result, often the first generation loses hope and outlook ('no upward mobility, from 'bad part of town', 'bad part of town' doesnt get developed into better part of town (as its supposed to happen (market forces), if labor is cheap enough and you have many people that are intrinsicly driven) - as a result you are producing a societal hot zone.

So there is a 'rational' explaination for this also, that isnt purely 'profit' driven (we gladely take your educated). If your economy, as a host country isnt growing, and you tell people to see their perspectives in asian goods getting cheaper, and an internationaly connected ruler class....


----------



## Dansteel (Nov 17, 2020)

The middle eastern wars cost each American  $10,000.
I doubt Trump's updates came anywhere near to that.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Dansteel said:


> The middle eastern wars cost each American  $10,000.
> I doubt Trump's updates came anywhere near to that.


That calculation probably is missing some figures on the 'gains' side. 

Remember, the quid pro quo is not always 'but then we can have our industrial giants 'develop your country'' (get your oil companies in to extraxt oil at low cost). The quid pro quo is to keep the resource trade fluid and business opportunities open in general. (Which is pretty likely, if you just built a military base there..  )

Getting profits from your own infrastructure companies, now being active in those countries is just the most premium racket there is. 

Because you can do that - while building up 'debt' in those countries (infrastructure development), which then goes to your infrastructure companies (you get credit, but you have to use US companies). Meaning all the money you spend, comes back to you with interest. While raising the structural dependance, of the country you develop. While making sure to extract resources at low cost. Fruits of war. 

Issue - everyone knows the racket by now. (China even developed a different model, where they actually gift you infrastructure up front.) So different models of getting financing back have to be developed.

But in the end, free world wide trade, benefits more US interests than just the military industrial complex.. 
-

That said, no one knows why you invaded Afghanistan. Seriously. The heck did you do there? Teach democracy? 

(Most likely explanation is that you had all those people in military contracts, f*cked up from the Irak invasion, you didnt want back in your country yet, so you created an 'adventure vacation' for them. But then, people died there...)


----------



## g00s3y (Nov 17, 2020)

Trump has more flagged tweets than electoral votes.

LOSER


----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 17, 2020)

g00s3y said:


> Trump has more flagged tweets than electoral votes.
> 
> LOSER


Thank you for that hearty chuckle.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Dansteel said:


> Yet nobody can fathom out the real reason they made you hate and get rid of Trump


This your anti war president Trump?
https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...020/11/16/us/politics/trump-iran-nuclear.html


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

smf said:


> I think you misunderstand what you are saying.
> 
> No cost, whether it's masks or lockdown, is too great. Right?
> 
> But you're arguing in all your posts as if the cost is too great.


No cost is too great for individual liberty.


ut2k4master said:


> you didnt answer the question


The question is a moot point.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The question is a moot point.


answer the question please


----------



## smf (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great for individual liberty.



You aren't at liberty to assault people by infecting them with covid19.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 17, 2020)

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-official-graham-tossing-ballots-281416294b5c54c6535f8ffaab4322a2 Since people want to talk about fraud and crookedness so much, why don't we discuss how Republican Lindsey Graham tried to coerce Georgia's Secretary of State to throw out ballots.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great for individual liberty.


The cost is too great the moment you put someone else's life and/or liberty in danger.  Your absolute comfort and convenience does not take precedence over the baseline health and well-being of others.  I understand that in this particular case you actually are a child, but this selfish and entitled mentality is exactly why nobody can take Republicans seriously as adults any more.  Y'all act like the biggest tough guys right up until the moment when you're confronted with the smallest possible inconvenience, then immediately drop to the floor screaming and flailing.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> answer the question please


No.


Xzi said:


> The cost is too great the moment you put someone else's life and/or liberty in danger.  Your absolute comfort and convenience does not take precedence over the baseline health and well-being of others.  I understand that in this particular case you actually are a child, but this selfish and entitled mentality is exactly why nobody can take Republicans seriously as adults any more.  Y'all act like the biggest tough guys right up until the moment when you're confronted with the smallest possible inconvenience, then immediately drop to the floor screaming and flailing.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.


coward


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


>



The irony of this coming from a man that owned slaves......


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> The irony of this coming from a man that owned slaves......


America wasn't the first country to own slaves. America was the first country to abolish slavery.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> America wasn't the first country to own slaves. America was the first country to abolish slavery.


"Haiti (then Saint-Domingue) formally declared independence from *France* in 1804 and became the first sovereign nation in the Western Hemisphere to unconditionally abolish slavery in the modern era."

Guess homeschool isn't working out too well for you is it?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:
			
		

> Fact check:



More like “it’s time for Lacuis to pass off his opinions and lies as facts”.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> There's no reason to think we will have "dark times" when Biden is president.



Your side doesn’t believe in God and doesn’t see any problem with sinning. Simply put, your side embraces evil.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> There's no reason to think things will "get worse than when Obama was president."



Yes there is.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> Obama did not stoke race wars.



Yes he did.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> Obama brought the GDP way up, not down.



Yeah right, that’s why he’s on video saying that the low GDP is the “new normal” and we just had to get used to it as it’s the best it’s going to get. Trump proved him wrong.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> There were job gains under Obama, not losses.



Not that many.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> The rate of economic improvement did not change under Trump (pre-COVID).



Yes it did, it got much better.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> Including Trump's ineffective response to COVID-19, we saw and continue to see economic disaster under Trump.



His response started in early January 2020 while all the Liberals did was call him a racist for shutting down the borders, putting in place travel restrictions and forming a task force to address the virus. I don’t see how you can call Trump’s response a disaster when your side waited 2 months to respond. If Trump’s response is a disaster then your sides response is a fucking catastrophe.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> Economies wouldn't have been hit as hard if there had been an effective response to COVID-19 from the Trump administration.



Lies, we’re not the only country that’s been infected. All one needs to do is compare the economic impact in the USA to other countries to see the impact was universal. Trump isn’t responsible for other countries virus response or their economies.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> It's not a matter of "if" Biden will win. Biden is the president-elect.



Biden is not the President elect until the Electoral College votes that he is.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> You're easily fooled then, go build another strawman.



Yawn, such low energy.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> Everyone is a hypocrit. You just lack the self awareness to see it in yourself. Because you just do whatever makes you feel good and whatever you want to do.



No, I do what’s right. You side is the one that puts logic aside for the way you all feel.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> Well you keep calling it China Wuhan Virus, so yeah it makes sense to call you a racist.
> Liberals can be racist too, the difference is they try to not be and change. While you embrace it and say there is nothing wrong with the statements you make.



It’s important to me that the World remembers that the COVID-19 virus started in Wuhan, China. It was around for months before China decided to inform the world thus China was responsible for a Global Pandemic. It’s not racist to hold the people responsible for the virus and it spreading accountable for their actions. Besides, Wuhan, China isn’t populated by 100% Chinese so there’s no way calling the virus by its original name could be racist. You thinking that Wuhan, China is populated only be a certain race makes you the racist.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> You claimed that no young people died without underlying health conditions. I disagreed.
> You told me to prove it. I did.



No I didn’t. I never said such a thing. I was just laughing at how you pulled a Libtard event and came up with some low percentage that doesn’t reflect jack shit thus not having any relevance what-so-ever.



			
				RandomUser said:
			
		

> These people are probably the wrong kind of poor to make example of. Either that they are trying to hide that they are poor due to social stigmas of being poor. I'm not denying that they exist and perhaps abuses the system but keep in mind that there are those that are actually poor and some don't even have kid(s). There are legitimate poor people actually needs these things just to survive, mainly the unrepresentative or underrepresented minorities that largely gets ignored. Also the system is design to keep them poor, heck they are not even allowed to save money for the rainy day or anything else, or else they either lose their benefit, their health insurance, or both. Every programs out their that supposed to help people get to home ownership are a joke, because these people will not qualify enough to even get one foot into the door, even with loans like USDA. Also consider with some seniors, their raise that they sometimes get annually, gets canceled out by the medicare premiums, thus keeping them in worst off shape because they have even less money to spend on the economy due to inflation. I should also mentioned that depending on the benefit type, the people are not even allowed to get married or again they lose the aforementioned things.



I agree that there’s policies in place to penalize poor people for making or saving money. That needs to change. However, if you’ve spent as much time as I have in various low income areas or ghettos you’d realize that the minority are the ones that have actual reasons, such as disability, to be poor. The rest of the population are just freeloaders who rather not work, do drugs and not take care of their children (if they have them).



			
				KingVamp said:
			
		

> That's a lot of effort to write that every single time than just saying virus or covid.



It’s important to me to keep calling the COVID-19 virus by its original name because it started in Wuhan, China and then China hid it from the world while it silently spread around the globe. It’s not racist to call something by the name that the media originally used for months nor is it racist to keep reminding people that the virus originated in Wuhan, China. You do realize that the Chinese media claims that the USA created the virus and is responsible for it spreading, don’t you? By not calling it by its original name you’re playing into the CCP’s hands. Frankly, China can go get fucked.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.



Look, there is moral stance, and there are numbers that kind of have you do something. Regardless of moral stance.

Also, as the US did its final metamorphosis, from the enlightenment to Wallstreet the movie, to full on flirting with fashism - you kinda start to wonder what was meant by this original statement.

I mean - dont trade with the UK, sure - but, is any statement really worth to have people live their lives by it?

It might be your 'highest' maxime - but what do the numbers look like?
-

You've got to pay special attention to sensitive matters like "if privacy gone" "checks and balances gone" or "if facebook censors without recourse" "facebook creates societal values, based on corporate principles" and "facebook creates reality".

But there kind of never should be 'maximes' that shouldnt be challenged or revisited.

And if at one point you find yourself shouting in the public street, that hospitals ought to 'just deal with it' or close up - because, personal freedoms, you might not be in the right.

Slippery slope argument sure - but you also can go the other direction as a society as well. (Kind of 'shake your chains'.) And so far, not that many dictator types were voted into office.

Trump had the personality - but lacked the attention span and focus.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234269


I had to have an internal debate as to whether this was worth a response or not.  Suffice it to say, "cloth masks = slavery" is not a real argument, or even something you put forward in good faith for that matter.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 17, 2020)

notimp said:


> "if facebook censors without recourse" "facebook creates societal values, based on corporate principles" and "facebook creates reality".



The problem with social media defining the truth is the fact that people put way too much value in it. I don't give two flying fucks what some Face Book executive thinks or feels as I don't allow  his thoughts and feelings don't dictate what's real or what's fake. Think about it. You're allowing some moderator dictate to you what's real and what's not. Why would you be so stupid to hold social media in such a high regard that you base your reality from what you consume on it? Fuck social media. I don't have 1 single account on social media nor ever plan to ever open one. If I did have any accounts on social media I'd delete them right away.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The problem with social media defining the truth is the fact that people put way too much value in it. I don't give two flying fucks what some Face Book's executive thinks or feels as his thoughts and feelings don't dictate what's real or what's fake.


The issue is the 'majority narrative' or the 'majority consensus'. Its almost impossible to have this created - in a democracy - by a player that has 'superior means', and no corrective.

Media isnt homogeneous (200 mio put up for Trump media network, I hear..  ) - every interest group could at least found a newspaper (some pretty populist rags amongst them, historically - as well as corporate papers), with public access TV - you still hold up the notion that 'everyone could broadcast over the TV network', which today roughly translates to 'everyone can have their youtube channel'.

But with social media, you have a new meta. The media company, that says, we are not a media company - we have no editorial interest, and then edits the 'major narrative' and stories out of existence. Where you cant just 'found another network' (literally impossible because of networkeffects, and at what point of 'scaling' you are bought up by a competitor), that could even have the possibility of mattering 'nearly as much'. Not even in 50 years.

At the same time people are optimizing for 'most easy consumption' (Tic Toc, very popular) -- which is the main business interest of that network. Making it so 'easy' (scroll, scroll, scroll) - all other forms of informing yourself dont interest you anymore. And on top of it, giving you what you want - self confirmation, through bubbles, and more extreme, and more questionable content by the minute, because - as an old saying goes:

The outrageous content gets watched by:

People who like it.
People who dont like it.
People who are enraged by it.
People who are amused by it.
....

So you optimize for really owning consumption patterns of people (scroll, scroll, scroll). You cant get challenged, because of network effects and amount of initial investment to compete. You have no self control measures like 'an internal code to stay impartial or fair', you have no expertise in the matter (you are not a journalistic outlet), but you are defining what peoples realities are.

Real is - what you believe. What you believe is formed by what you read (consume).

Easiest way to understand this is to try to wrap your head around the notion, that there can be multiple 'truths' on a topic, that might even conflict.

Also regardless of self-monitoring. You'd really need competition in the field. So the 'second extremist twitter' idea - is not that bad, as it looks on first, second and twentyfounth glance.  The issue there is that - what good is it, if you are creating bubbles again? That get more and more extreme. (In theory.)

So the solution is always to educate more people about concepts of 'media literacy' (what am I reading, how does this media thing work, what is "tha truth", how does media competition work, how does PR work, whats the role of a whistleblower in society, whats the role of a journalist, what role do blogs play (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_Me,_I'm_Lying (imho still the best primer)) how can journalists be held responsible (first, by learning their names, or at least the name of their publication) - if all of this 'looks like native facebook content to you', ...). And this is flipping hard, if your competitor advertises 'just scroll, scroll, scroll, ...'.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> America wasn't the first country to own slaves. America was the first country to abolish slavery.


Another one of your bullshit made up claims America abolished it Dec 18th 1865 many other countries had done this years before including my own Country of Scotland where it was fully abolished in 1807.

You claim is almost as hilarious as your previous one of America being the least racist country in the world.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Another one of your bullshit made up claims America abolished it Dec 18th 1865 many other countries had done this years before including my own Country of Scotland where it was fully abolished in 1807.
> 
> You claim is almost as hilarious as your previous one of America being the least racist country in the world.


Fine, it was the fastest to abolish slavery. It took less than 100 years from independence to slavery abolition.


----------



## smf (Nov 17, 2020)

I'm not sure that diseases like covid19 were what Thomas Jefferson had in mind when he spoke about dangerous freedom.


----------



## KageNinja (Nov 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Here we see the Trumpette in its natural habitat, assuming the role of victim and letting fly its native screech.  "REEE, REEE, THIS ELECTION STILL ISN'T OVER, REEE!"  The enraged Trumpette can be heard for miles, echoing deep into the night.


 For the record I support neither parties and am neutral I just find it strange that people are believing the media when they say say that he has won. It would be a major kick to the teeth if Trump got in after all of the fraud got exposed.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 17, 2020)

There is no evidence of wiedespread voter fraud.

I wonder how many times we need to repeat it.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> There is no evidence of wiedespread voter fraud.
> 
> I wonder how many times we need to repeat it.


Until it's true. Remember Dominion?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

notimp said:


> ad 1: You have an inactive President in play at a time where Covid economical impact will hit full force, that just appointed an industry lobbyist as chief of staff.


President Trump is/was utterly inactive during the COVID-19 pandemic. Your audacity is on display when you call anyone other than Trump "inactive."



notimp said:


> ad 2: That had in his program a pledge not to raise taxes for people with up to 400k of yearly income, when with Obama it was 200k. This means no effective tax raises for any programs whatsoever. So anything you plan to do that costs big money, has to be debt financed, or financed through corporate taxes, we know aint happening. Also, thats a structural claim, that makes no sense. Except if you 'believe'.


Tax raises on those making 400,000 a year can be effective. Also, this doesn't really address the point you were allegedly responding to.



notimp said:


> ad 4: GDP is not a measure anymore that tells you how main street is doing. Financial gains have been decoupled from 'real' economic gains, and were responsible for most of GDP gain in the last 40 years. Also Obama watched over the Wall Street bailout after the 2008 financial market crisis, which tanked GDP - temporarily.


I never mentioned GDP. There are a lot of problems with using certain economic metrics, and I prefer to use something as objective as job additions and job losses. The rate of job growth under Trump was unchanged between when Trump took office and when COVID-19 hit. However, because of Trump's poor response to the pandemic, the economy tanked, and that's the closest thing we have to a "Trump economy."

The data is also very clear that economies tend to improve under Democratic presidents and tend to get worse under Republican presidents. You don't have to go very far into the past to observe this trend.



notimp said:


> ad 5: In absolute numbers, there are always job gains (even through the worst stock market crash since the 1920s (?)), because your country is growing (immigration). Thats a platitude, you have to be more specific.


By literally every objective metric I can think of (unemployment numbers, job gains, GDP, etc.), the economy improved under Obama after he inherited the Great Recession economy. You can literally see where job gains skyrocket after the Democratic stimulus package. It's pretty ridiculous to argue that the Obama administration didn't improve the economy.



notimp said:


> ad 6: Important point, but there are better ways to make it. 'No rate change' can actually be an achievement. (Generally speaking, not necessarily in this case.)


Trump gets no credit if the economy was unchanged between when Trump took office and when the economy spiraled downward. Trump does get credit for the economic downturn. It's not rocket science.



notimp said:


> ad 7: True, but you increased competitiveness towards other economies, and now have more options for the coming months probably (can be argued, that you always had more options, because you can print USD). Also, there was no scenario in which Covid-19 could have been 'controlled' in the US pretty much since the beginning. Doesnt mean, you shouldnt try to mitigate it. (Reduce deaths.)


The United States is far worse off competitively now that it was before Trump. The inability to travel to a lot of countries because of Trump's poor COVID-19 management alone has hampered economic competition.

There absolutely were scenarios where COVID-19 cases, deaths, hospitalizations, and economic disaster could have been mitigated. Nobody is arguing it could have been nothing, other than when Trump said it would be nothing.



notimp said:


> ad 8: Wrong. Corp america was on the side of 'keep the economy open for as long as possible'.


I don't care why Trump chose to bury his head in the sand. It happened. Trump utterly failed and continues to fail the country.



notimp said:


> How does that get you 4 likes? Because it sounds good?


Respectfully, some of the points in your post were, at best, irrelevant to the conversation. At worst, they were steaming piles of shit. I don't care about likes, and I don't think likes are a reflection of the quality of one's post, but it's no wonder I got likes and you didn't. You're denying basic facts, presumably because they're inconvenient to the positions you've stupidly decided to type up and create a permanent record of.


----------



## Master X (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Fine, it was the fastest to abolish slavery. It took less than 100 years from independence to slavery abolition.



As opposed to the countries that had it abolished upon their creation. For 100 years, the US allowed the further expansion of slavery, only stopping after a civil war that saw the deaths of over 750k people. 

And besides, if you're arguing from formation to establishment then that particular crown would more likely go to The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, formed in 1932, which abolished slavery in 1962. 30 years, and unlike the US their country didn't tear itself apart in a effort to keep it around.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> My parents agree with me. My grandparents survived without a scratch. Try again.


First, it was a hypothetical. Second, 244,000 people didn't "survive without a scratch." But, as you already admitted, you don't care about the lives of strangers, which is why you can fuck yourself.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great for individual liberty.
> 
> The question is a moot point.


So, you're in favor of abolishing speed limits? No cost is too great for individual liberty.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> More like “it’s time for Lacuis to pass off his opinions and lies as facts”.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you intentionally improperly quote/tag me so I wouldn't see this post and not respond to it? I don't blame you if that's the case.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> America wasn't the first country to own slaves. America was the first country to abolish slavery.


Fact check: The United States was not the first country to abolish slavery.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> So, you're in favor of abolishing speed limits? No cost is too great for individual liberty.


Bad analogy. Speed limits protect the speeder more than everyone else. Masks protect strangers more than the wearer.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 17, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> For the record I support neither parties and am neutral I just find it strange that people are believing the media when they say say that he has won. It would be a major kick to the teeth if Trump got in after all of the fraud got exposed.



AP has been calling the elections since 1848.......they are the same people that called all the other presidents of the US including Trump with other members of the press following soon after. 

Trump supporters hooted and hollered in celebration when they did it in 2016, but now it is somehow suddenly an issue.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Your side doesn’t believe in God and doesn’t see any problem with sinning. Simply put, your side embraces evil.



Not everyone on the left is an atheist. In fact, I'd argue not even a majority of people on the left are atheists. Joe Biden, for example, is a Catholic. So, already, this point makes no sense.
There is no evidence that a god exists.
If you are going to argue something is immoral or evil, you need to articulate a reason to think it's evil aside from "my imaginary friend said so."
I'm not the one who believes in a god that supports slavery and other objectively immoral actions, so fuck off for trying to pass off an evil god as a moral god.



gregory-samba said:


> Yeah right, that’s why he’s on video saying that the low GDP is the “new normal” and we just had to get used to it as it’s the best it’s going to get. Trump proved him wrong.=


It takes a certain kind of willful ignorance to not even Google a chart of US GDP growth over the years. The economy improved by virtually every objective metric under Obama. Arguing otherwise is just absurd. We have the numbers.

Or has four years of Trump made you forget that an objective reality with facts exists?



gregory-samba said:


> Not that many.


Again, you have the same access to Google that I have. I said this once to somebody, and I'm going to say it again: If you research something instead of spouting what you just feel like is true, you are going to look a lot less foolish, and you're going to be a lot less embarrassed.



gregory-samba said:


> Yes it did, it got much better.


The rate of job growth, objectively, didn't improve under Trump between when Trump took office and when COVID-19 hit. If we include COVID-19, job growth plummeted under Trump. Again, these are objective numbers.



gregory-samba said:


> His response started in early January 2020 while all the Liberals did was call him a racist for shutting down the borders, putting in place travel restrictions and forming a task force to address the virus. I don’t see how you can call Trump’s response a disaster when your side waited 2 months to respond. If Trump’s response is a disaster then your sides response is a fucking catastrophe.


Trump's border closings were, at best, too little too late, and at worst, an embarrassing and racist distraction from what needed to be done.

Trump gets no credit for a feckless task force that did virtually nothing under Trump. This is also the same task force that originally disbanded in April/May, since he was spouting nonsense that the pandemic was over.

The left didn't "wait two months to response." The left also wasn't in charge.

Trump's initial failures include, but aren't limited to:

Effectively ending the pandemic response team a year or two before the pandemic hit
Downplaying risks by saying publicly that COVID-19 was not a big deal and nobody should be worried <-- We know that this alone contributed and continues to contribute to increased infection rates
The lack of a federal response to address a lack of testing
The lack of a federal response to address a lack of PPE
A lack of a federal response to address social distancing
Encouraging states and municipalities to reopen too quickly
Encouraging states and municipalities not to shutdown at all
A failure to address needed financial stimulus aside from the initial round
Continuing to this day to peddle misinformation about masks, suggesting they cause one to be more likely to catch COVID-19
Suggesting disinfectant in the lungs can be an effective treatment against COVID-19
Continuing almost to this day to hold super spreader rallies with no social distancing and few masks, inside and outside
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_communication_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._federal_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump#COVID-19_pandemic



gregory-samba said:


> Lies, we’re not the only country that’s been infected. All one needs to do is compare the economic impact in the USA to other countries to see the impact was universal. Trump isn’t responsible for other countries virus response or their economies.


I never said we were the only country that has been infected. That being said, the response to COVID-19 in the United States was almost nonexistent (see above), and things are much worse in the United States than most other countries, both when it comes to cases and economics.



gregory-samba said:


> Biden is not the President elect until the Electoral College votes that he is.


That's actually not true. The president-elect is merely the apparent winner.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> President Trump is/was utterly inactive during the COVID-19 pandemic. Your audacity is on display when you call anyone other than Trump "inactive."


Bad start. I called you out on seven factual issues in a "factcheck" posting. You come back with "who do you call inactive"? 

Sweden - also still 'inactive'.

Stuff depends on projected growth rate also. Which differs by population density. If US never saw a path towards 'controlled spread' (where you follow up on clusters), deferring to local authorities, might have been the right move.

Whats not been 'the right move' was to sideline Fauci, not attend a corona taskforce meeting in 5 months, and publicly ridicule controll measures, making them 'a political statement' - which a thing in itself (mask, ...) is not.


Also - much more important. Doing the bare minimum at this stage, mostly in terms of public perception, in the middle of a health crisis, is not something I'd give Biden much credit for. Thats truly bipartisan. But also the bare minimum.

Thats not what you go into politics for. Thats - display of common sense type stuff.

Here is the policy stuff thats currently being teased:
Biden's big economic speech mentions:-Big stimulus ($3 trillion)-Electric vehicles + 550,000 new charging stations-Modernizing infrastructure-1.5 million new affordable housing units-paid sick leave, paid family leave-$15 minimum wage-He's a 'union guy'— Heather Long (@byHeatherLong) November 16, 2020


And thats largely BS.

1. 3 Trillion stimulus is 'Fed says you must' stuff. Because of Covid and the unemployment figures. No party politics, largely not even on the amount.
edit: Src:  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/mor...eded-even-with-vaccines-bill-dudley-says.html

2. Electric Vehicles and 550.000 charging stations is 'US transition to EVs', state is subsidizing infrastructure cost - which is industry politics. Hardly any jobs created, hardly any impact in the next 10 years for people that dont own EVs currently, and even in the future. Replacement for gas stations. Hurray.

3. Modernizing Infrastructure. This is the big question - how big of an investment program are you able to produce? This is Christmas and Easter together for voter appeasement, so why should republicans allow extensive programs here? This is also a mere talking point in the green transitioning memo. When it comes to retrofitting. Which is about the only measure that doesnt cost jobs (potentially, likely) short term.

So this could mean a few things, with chances of 'mostly PR' still active.

4. Paid sick leave - wonderful, so this is the appeasement for 'no healthcare for all', backpeddling, changing the narrative. Increasing worker cost by a little. Raising productivity. US finally reached the 19th century (global comparison).

5. 15$ Minimum wage - again, this is a call for 'public investment', that has to be offset (where it fails) with state spending. Hurray? I mean its a proper measure alright, lets give it that. Of course - there already is pushback within the party, because its the only concrete measure announced.

6.  He is a union guy. Great - but unions dont have any pull in the US anymore, because threat of 'we'll move production overnight' is very real. So that has to be put into international trade deals, that needs negotiation, ...


Also what of all this is 'democratic'? (As in leftist politics? Industry politics. One 'public investment' measure. Platitudes. Payed sick leave instead of healthcare.)


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

notimp said:


> Bad start. I called you out on seven factual issues in a "factcheck" posting. You come back with "who do you call inactive"?
> 
> Sweden - also still 'inactive'.
> 
> ...


Like,  look at my post that's literally above yours and educate yourself on Trump's inaction.


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Like,  look at my post that's literally above yours and educate yourself on Trump's inaction.


I'm not talking about Trump anymore. His inaction on Covid wasnt the issue.

The public narrative he created around it was. State politics picked up the slack (at least in counties where it mattered). US has a high deathrate for developed economies, but not an outrageously high one.

Sweden: Death rate per mil: 615
United States: Death rate per mil: 766
United Kingdom: Death rate per mil: 775

Also this election was not about Covid. In fact pollsters had Covid in their prediction models as a much more important factor than it turned out to be. So dont make this only about Covid.

Bidens inaction is not 'in Covid' its his inherent inability to do anything 'leftist politically' economically. During another crisis. Its another 'you've got Obama - he is bailing out the banks' moment. If at all...


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Bad analogy. Speed limits protect the speeder more than everyone else. Masks protect strangers more than the wearer.


Even that is another bullshit claim from you. More people die each year around the world from being knocked down than from actually being in the car.

More than half of all road traffic deaths are among vulnerable road users: pedestrians, cyclists, and motorcyclists.

Research has also shown that if you are hit by a car at 30 mph rather than 40 mph your chance of survival doubles. Speed limits protect innocent pedestrians more than it does the driver. 


https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/road-traffic-injuries0000000000


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Bad analogy. Speed limits protect the speeder more than everyone else. Masks protect strangers more than the wearer.


Speed limits protect the speeder and the other person. Masks protect the wearer and the other person. They're analogous. I honestly don't know how many times I've informed you of this. Your ignorance is willful, and you should be ashamed.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 17, 2020)

Well, tbf, Trump is actively encouraging people not to take this virus seriously.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 17, 2020)

Jesus Christ, 109 pages O-o


----------



## notimp (Nov 17, 2020)

Correction on 1. The stuff that will see the light of day out of that is 'FED says you must' stuff.

No one is believing that Senate will actually pass the 'Heroes act' in that form - anytime soon.
https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...us-plan-as-unserious/articleshow/79272266.cms

So the amount currently is disputed. Again, with bad cards for democrats. In fact, they know it wont get passed in that form - and did make it their main talking point for PR reasons anyhow.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 17, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Well, tbf, Trump is actively encouraging people not to take this virus seriously.


A virus with a 99.5+% survival rate for anyone under the age of 70.


Lacius said:


> Speed limits protect the speeder and the other person. Masks protect the wearer and the other person.


To the same extent?


----------



## Lacius (Nov 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> To the same extent?


No. COVID-19 this year kills far more than car crashes.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 17, 2020)

U.S. politics is so popular that even other countries are into it. But U.S. don't know squat about other countries politics or even president. 

Controversy sells, it gets people interested. And Trump is the master of controversy. He is a master sales man.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

SG854 said:


> U.S. politics is so popular that even other countries are into it. But U.S. don't know squat about other countries politics or even president.
> 
> Controversy sells, it gets people interested. And Trump is the master of controversy. He is a master sales man.


Not so masterful that he could sell himself for a second term.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 18, 2020)

SG854 said:


> U.S. politics is so popular that even other countries are into it. But U.S. don't know squat about other countries politics or even president.
> 
> Controversy sells, it gets people interested. And Trump is the master of controversy. He is a master sales man.


Let me fix that for you
Controversy sells, it gets people interested. And Trump is the master of controversy. He is a master CON MAN.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 18, 2020)

welp, almost all of trump's lawyers have dipped out and now Rudy has to step in and put his own law license on the line. anyone wanna do betting odds on censure or disbarment?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacuis said:
			
		

> bullshit content wall of crap



I figured you were Godless as most liberals don't think sinning causes any sorts of problems or they could care less about the problems their behavior causes.

You've also again avoided discussing the fact that the Liberal response to the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus was 2 months after Trump's. You can't blame Trump for this mess when your side refused to do jack shit other than call Trump a racist for responding early. Trump's response saved millions of lives. Your sides response, which remember was nothing at all for 2 months more than likely resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. That's on your side because they simply refused to act and called Trump bad names for acting early. You're sides response was to allow people to die. Your sides response was millions of time worse then Trump's response.

You also skipped over my comments about how Liberals are involved in modern slavery. You're so fucking one sided you can't even get close to anything that shines the truth about your kind.

You're going back on ignore. Using my electricity reading your horse shit opinions is something I rather not do.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 18, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I figured you were Godless as most liberals don't think sinning causes any sorts of problems or they could care less about the problems their behavior causes.
> 
> You've also again avoided discussing the fact that the Liberal response to the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus was 2 months after Trump's. You can't blame Trump for this mess when your side refused to do jack shit other than call Trump a racist for responding early. Trump's response saved millions of lives. Your sides response, which remember was nothing at all for 2 months more than likely resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. That's on your side because they simply refused to act and called Trump bad names for acting early. You're sides response was to allow people to die. Your sides response was millions of time worse then Trump's response.
> 
> ...



yikes, implying that a moral framework can't exist without god. feels bad. too bad the coronavirus strain that is widespread in America originated from Italy (D614G), and was kicking around Italy back in September of 2019. Trump's badly executed shutdown of people coming in from china wouldn't have done shit anyways. remind me again which side is shoving through court appointments and doing dick all to actually help Americans in need? On top of all this, trump was warned MONTHS (November of 2019) ahead by intelligence officers from other nations (Isreal specifically). The Obama Administration left a 60+ page playbook about how to handle a pandemic that was written after H1N1. Trump threw that shit out and fucked all of us in the process.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Did you intentionally improperly quote/tag me so I wouldn't see this post and not respond to it? I don't blame you if that's the case.



Lol, @Lacius.  Your habit of selective reading/response is very consistent of your character.  I guess you don't care if you are wrong as long as nothing can force you to admit it.  The bandwagon-ing of the "fake it til you make it" troupe really seems to be where you determine the value of your comments/arguments.  I guess we just have to wait until Biden becomes president before the thread can be closed.


----------



## CORE (Nov 18, 2020)

Unfortunately that is the reality nowadays no more gathering and Sniffing it is just too damn dangerous you never cant tell what you will catch.

But in all seriousness Equality is what Camella Harris said so all will be equal including her and Joe and the Admin. 

No more living the high life for them alone all are going to live like them you dont think they will live in the gutter like other less fortunate people. 

Americans should be happy your all going to have private security,  Jumbo Jets,  Large Houses and not to mention the Money just like Joe and Camella.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol, @Lacius.  Your habit of selective reading/response is very consistent of your character.  I guess you don't care if you are wrong as long as nothing can force you to admit it.  The bandwagon-ing of the "fake it til you make it" troupe really seems to be where you determine the value of your comments/arguments.  I guess we just have to wait until Biden becomes president before the thread can be closed.


"Blah blah blah I can never support my claims and should be ignored blah."


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

omgcat said:


> too bad the coronavirus strain that is widespread in America originated from Italy (D614G), and was kicking around Italy back in September of 2019.


Can I get a source?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> "Blah blah blah I can never support my claims and should be ignored blah."


I've supported every claim I've made.

@monkeyman4412 knows it.  Hates it, but knows it.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I've supported every claim I've made.
> 
> @monkeyman4412 knows it.


That's demonstrably untrue.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> That's demonstrably untrue.


Anyone has the freedom to say that.  You are just deflecting.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Anyone has the freedom to say that.  You are just deflecting.


I have a running list of four or five things you claimed but never supported with any evidence. Nobody on this website should take you seriously.


----------



## wolf-snake (Nov 18, 2020)

i'm surprise he won seeing how his last name sounds like Bin Laden combined into 1 word.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Not so masterful that he could sell himself for a second term.


Enough to get him a first term something most people can't accomplish.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

wolf-snake said:


> i'm surprise he won seeing how his last name sounds like Bin Laden combined into 1 word.


This is a country that twice elected Barack Hussein Obama.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Enough to get him a first term something most people can't accomplish.


Sure, but he also narrowly won the Electoral College and lost the popular vote, so it's not as impressive an accomplishment as just about any other presidential victory.

And, again, his salesmanship apparently wasn't good enough to win him a second term.


----------



## wolf-snake (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> This is a country that twice elected Barack Hussein Obama.


To be fair nobody even saw the Hussein part of his name, with Biden its literally right there.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I've supported every claim I've made.
> 
> @monkeyman4412 knows it.  Hates it, but knows it.


You have a lot of nerve directly mentioning me.
To speak bluntly, no you haven't at all.
I haven't seen you use any sources to back up any of your claims, Lacius has, I have, multiple people outside of us have.




tabzer said:


> You are right. I am skeptical of Ameica's democratic process.  Vote fraud does happen (fact).


demonstration right here that you don't use sources, aka, no backup to your claim. Lacius and i have both used different articles that disproves this. You have no source, only your own words.


----------



## CORE (Nov 18, 2020)

wolf-snake said:


> To be fair nobody even saw the Hussein part of his name, with Biden its literally right there.



Joe was merely Biden his time


----------



## SG854 (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Sure, but he also narrowly won the Electoral College and lost the popular vote, so it's not as impressive an accomplishment as just about any other presidential victory.
> 
> And, again, his salesmanship apparently wasn't good enough to win him a second term.


For the amount of people he got to rally behind him. He wasn't too far behind on the popular vote, 3% behind.

He may not have won the second term but did garner up alot of followers. Which is a big success for a sales man. Any video game console that is owned by 47% of people that own next gen consoles is a huge success for that company. Especially compared to the top competitor that is owned by 50% of people that own next gen consoles.

Since this is a winner takes all situation Trump didn't win but came damn close on the popular vote. He sold himself well only just barely missing the mark.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 18, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Can I get a source?


sure!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/15/coronavirus-emerged-in-italy-earlier-than-thought-study-shows.html

also another source for those wary of NBC

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-emerged-italy-september-of-last-year-study-shows-2020-11


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 18, 2020)

omgcat said:


> sure!
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/15/coronavirus-emerged-in-italy-earlier-than-thought-study-shows.html


interesting, cool to know.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

omgcat said:


> sure!
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/15/coronavirus-emerged-in-italy-earlier-than-thought-study-shows.html
> 
> ...


I see. We also seem to got the worse version of the virus.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 18, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Let me fix that for you
> Controversy sells, it gets people interested. And Trump is the master of controversy. He is a master CON MAN.


I think snake oil salesman is what you're looking for.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

SG854 said:


> For the amount of people he got to rally behind him. He wasn't too far behind on the popular vote, 3% behind.
> 
> He may not have won the second term but did garner up alot of followers. Which is a big success for a sales man. Any video game console that is owned by 47% of people that own next gen consoles is a huge success for that company. Especially compared to the top competitor that is owned by 50% of people that own next gen consoles.
> 
> Since this is a winner takes all situation Trump didn't win but came damn close on the popular vote. He sold himself well only just barely missing the mark.


Again, not a good enough salesman to win a second term. It wasn't even close.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 18, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> I see. We also seem to got the worse version of the virus.



we've got our own version of it as well, since it has mutated in Texas. whether it becomes more of a problem has yet to be seen though.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 18, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Your side doesn’t believe in God and doesn’t see any problem with sinning. Simply put, your side embraces evil.


So in your world Trump is god then? You don't see any sin he has committed? Surely gluttony would be under one of those deadly sins, or greed. 
I seriously don't see how one can take such a stupid ideological extreme that any person that doesn't believe in god is evil. It's profoundly stupid.
One doesn't need to believe in god to want to be a good person. Define sin to me. I go to work, I protect the people around me to my ability by wearing a mask. I lower my chances of getting covid and preventing spread to love ones. 
I have a depressed Significant other who I care for when they get suicidal. To give an idea of just how stupid your argument is. When I was five I found my neighbors wallet. Granted I had extreme innocents back then that I lost due to events. But I didn't believe in god back then, and I asked my mom who's wallet it was. I didn't consider  the money in it, I was more intrigued someone dropped it and wanted to return it.
Character doesn't come from religion. People that believe that good character comes directly from religion are those who are either trying to actively lie to themselves because they know they are a bad person. Or someone who has lost touch with reality. Religion purposes ideals. But it doesn't mean that person follows them, and not all ideals purposed by a religion is good. 
Consider Buddhism. Your not supposed to have sex. That is an ideal. Is it a good one? No. Just like how not having sex is absurd in our modern world. People being trans or gay was and still is a problem to extremely devote Christians. Which is absurd to believe that trans people don't exist, or gay. People who are trans or gay actively suffer under Christianity if their mother or father are. I've seen this happen from my eyes more than once from different families other than my own. The more devout those parents are, the worse off for the child. 
What builds character is interactions between people, and how you handle them. The best people are those who want to put others forwards. The worst are those who refuse progress and those who think the world must stay still, refusing science refusing evidence that conflicts with your beliefs is part of that. 
roles change, society changes, people change. What matters is the direction of that change. Does it continue other people's suffering? then it definitely means it's not good change.
I hope you enjoyed my little rant here.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I have a running list of four or five things you claimed but never supported with any evidence. Nobody on this website should take you seriously.


Put up or shut up.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Again, not a good enough salesman to win a second term. It wasn't even close.


Yes it was close

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Again, not a good enough salesman to win a second term. It wasn't even close.


I'm a glass half full kinda person

You don't have to be number 1 to be considered an accomplished person. I consider 2nd, 3rd, top 10 to be very accomplished people. And I respect people that they even made it that far. You have to do more then average to make it that far.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> You have a lot of nerve directly mentioning me.
> To speak bluntly, no you haven't at all.
> I haven't seen you use any sources to back up any of your claims, Lacius has, I have, multiple people outside of us have.
> 
> ...



Lol.  What claim do I need to back up with a source when most claims I've made are about logical fallacies and inconsistencies wherein the source material is already provided?  What contention of mine did you disprove with an internet publication?  You are really lazy at proofing your own comments.  Your memory is pretty bad too.  Maybe it's just reading comprehension that's the underlying issue?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> Lacius and i have both used different articles that disproves this.



Are you disputing the fact that voter fraud can and does happen?  Not even @Lavius would agree with that statement.  That's how absurd that is.  He won't try to publically shame you or anything.  He loves his cheerleaders.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Consider Buddhism. Your not supposed to have sex. That is an ideal. Is it a good one? No.



Of course @AmandaRose and @Lacius will tell you that you are wrong, because they care so much about honest representation and genuine understanding.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  What claim do I need to back up with a source when most claims I've made are about logical fallacies and inconsistencies wherein the source material is already provided?



really. Okay then let's see.



tabzer said:


> If Trump wins the election, it would probably be because he demonstrates,"wide spread voter fraud" or perhaps by arresting all of his political opponents. I'm not really sure how the latter works. I have trouble believing Biden outperformed Obama. Your comment that we are talking about, is factually inaccurate on multiple accounts. The only way that is seemed relevant or true was by poking fun at the court cases being proof of something.


is this you debunking a logical fallacy? or is this you stating your opinion without a source.


Here's ap news who has called elections since 1848 showing who won the popular vote (google is merely using them as a source)





https://apnews.com/article/trump-campaign-lawsuit-pennsylvania-cf3582a8741e36704cdf3510765eed15
here's trump retracing a major claim in pennsylvania
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...losing-court-he-keeps-losing-his-lawyers-too/
here's the Washington post talking about trump loosing lawyers and court cases.
Still not enough?
Then let's look at state officals who also say there wasn't widespread voter fraud
and it's not the first time I've supported my arguments.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html


tabzer said:


> What contention of mine did you disprove with an internet publication?  You are really lazy at proofing your own comments.  Your memory is pretty bad too.  Maybe it's just reading comprehension that's the underlying issue?


what's wrong? In a twist and lashing out?
I merely mentioned that you have nerve talking to me. And here you now throwing not one, not two, but three  ad hominiums. Commenting about my memory, reading comprehension and proofing. Truly impressive.
Oh and what have I disproved with internet publication?
We done this song and dance before hun.
Your argument of widespread voter fraud. We've done this song and dance that I've lost track. Though perhaps maybe you just forgot that we've done this song and dance multiple times.






tabzer said:


> Are you disputing the fact that voter fraud can and does happen?  Not even @Lavius would agree with that statement.  That's how absurd that is.  He won't try to publically shame you or anything.  He loves his cheerleaders.


Actually, he would, we both would. In fact, we already had a discussion about this. Voter fraud can and does happen. Though it's very often caught and evidence would be clear.
BUT the thing we positively wouldn't agree on, is *WIDESPREAD* voter fraud in this or previous elections in the states. Because there is more than enough proof that it didn't happen in this election. Look through my articles above.
If the courts are not having trumps lawsuits of voter fraud.
Then there is no voter fraud.
Now, are you disputing that there was widespread voter fraud?
Because you've done that multiple times.
"trump could win if there was widespread voter fraud"
Not in your own words exactly. But it is the argument you made.Multiple times over.


I also must ask, why do you care so much about U.S politics?
It's interesting, for someone who supposedly doesn't have a horse in the US. you definitely act like it considering your responses. If you didn't, you otherwise wouldn't have cared as much as you have about this thread.


----------



## Joom (Nov 18, 2020)

Dunno if anyone has posted this yet, but here's some proof of internal voter fraud. (Un)ironically, it's from the Republicans.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...affensperger-lindsey-graham-elections-ballots


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

There's no ethical way for Trump to stay president.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> is this you debunking a logical fallacy? or is this you stating your opinion without a source.



It is a hypothetical example showing how Trump could still win the election.  Add "hypothetical" to your vocabulary.  Usually they start with the word "if".  



monkeyman4412 said:


> what's wrong? In a twist and lashing out?
> 
> I merely mentioned that you have nerve talking to me. And here you now throwing not one, not two, but three ad hominiums.



"ad hominiums" are substitutes for arguments.  In this case, you haven't established a reliable position against anything I've said--only against what you think my position is, and that would be a strawman if it were intentional.  I genuinely think that you have reading comprehension issues due to being lazy. 



monkeyman4412 said:


> Actually, he would, we both would. In fact, we already had a discussion about this. Voter fraud can and does happen.



Then why would I need an additional source?  And why would you posit that there is something wrong with my statement if it is in agreement with what everyone has said? 



monkeyman4412 said:


> BUT the thing we positively wouldn't agree on, is *WIDESPREAD* voter fraud in this or previous elections in the states. Because there is more than enough proof that it didn't happen in this election. Look through my articles above.



Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  That's a logical fault that both you and @Lacius are failing to acknowledge.  Personally, I cannot verify the vote.  It is not transparent--so even if you do appeal to authority, it does not gain my confidence.



monkeyman4412 said:


> If the courts are not having trumps lawsuits of voter fraud.
> Then there is no voter fraud.



Contextual fail and logical fail.  Truly this is a terrible set of comments.  First, If you are addressing "widespread voter fraud" then say that.  Don't be lazy and make objectively false statements.  Second, even if you did mean "widespread voter fraud", then absence of evidence is not evidence of absence,  Be careful.  You might break people's brains with that amount of contradiction.  People might stop thinking.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Now, are you disputing that there was widespread voter fraud?



I don't know if there was widespread voter fraud, and I'm not even sure what it fully entails in all possibilities.  Can one actor commit widespread voter fraud?  I believe "systemic vote fraud" is a better description of what Trump is positing of Dominion.



monkeyman4412 said:


> I also must ask, why do you care so much about U.S politics?
> It's interesting, for someone who supposedly doesn't have a horse in the US. you definitely act like it considering your responses.



Most people here do not like, or are at least skeptical of Biden's relationship with China, and the implications it has on Japan's economy and sanctity.  I'm more personally interested in seeing a better form of government emerge through these times.


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 18, 2020)

Thankfully Ajit Pai is going to lose his spot, hopefully the Biden administration can put someone who isn't afraid of the telecom companies. The fact that the government has been funding the ISPs to put high speed internet in rural America since the early 2000s and that still hasn't happened is ridiculous


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Of course @AmandaRose and @Lacius will tell you that you are wrong, because they care so much about honest representation and genuine understanding.


He is wrong buddhists are allowed to have sex

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/12/14/how-do-buddhists-have-sex-8249020/amp/


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 18, 2020)

why do you think this is the biggest voting turnout on us history? it's because trump was so bad everyone couldn't wait to vote him out!


----------



## MetoMeto (Nov 18, 2020)

Well...good luck Americans, you will need it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> He is wrong buddhists are allowed to have sex
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/12/14/how-do-buddhists-have-sex-8249020/amp/



I'm not trying to be condescending to you in saying this, but thanks for proving me wrong.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 18, 2020)

https://www.wired.com/story/trump-fires-christopher-krebs-cisa/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/us/politics/trump-fires-christopher-krebs.html

In more corruption news that conservatives on here probably won't address, Donald Trump fires Cyber Security Official for telling the president there is, in fact, no election fraud.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Put up or shut up.


Great, I have the list. If you're actually interested in settling this, here are the steps that must be followed:

You need to request that I post the list (I'm not going to waste time doing this now, since I don't think you actually care to see it).
I will post the list.
You will provide evidence backing up the various claims on that list.
If you can't or won't do any one of these steps, then you're demonstrably being disingenuous when you say "put up or shut up," and nobody needs to pay attention to you.



tabzer said:


> Of course @AmandaRose and @Lacius will tell you that you are wrong, because they care so much about honest representation and genuine understanding.


What? "Not having sex" is not an ideal. What are you even blathering on about? I've never posted anything that's anti-sex.


tabzer said:


> Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  That's a logical fault that both you and @Lacius are failing to acknowledge.  Personally, I cannot verify the vote.  It is not transparent--so even if you do appeal to authority, it does not gain my confidence.



I never once argued "there's no widespread voter fraud." As I've said repeatedly, there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. So, I am not arguing that absence of evidence equals evidence of absence; I'm arguing absence of evidence equals absence of evidence, lol. Your argument falls apart here and now.
That all being said, absence of evidence can sometimes be evidence of absence. It's a common misconception that absence of evidence is never evidence of absence.


----------



## NuadaXXX (Nov 18, 2020)

Biden wins? welcome USA in the dictatorship


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

NuadaXXX said:


> Biden wins? welcome USA in the dictatorship


The only candidate who demonstrated any examples of authoritarianism is Donald Trump. Hell, he is right now trying to throw out legally cast ballots in an effort to retain power.


----------



## NuadaXXX (Nov 18, 2020)

Trump has not passed any laws that restrict you, Biden will do it day 1

In my logical understanding, only someone is a dictator who restricts the people.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

NuadaXXX said:


> Trump has not passed any laws that restrict you, Biden will do it day 1
> 
> In my logical understanding, only someone is a dictator who restricts the people.


Is that so? Link Link


----------



## NuadaXXX (Nov 18, 2020)

Bad comparison, transgender comparison against restrictions that affect the whole people


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Great, I have the list. If you're actually interested in settling this, here are the steps that must be followed:
> 
> You need to request that I post the list (I'm not going to waste time doing this now, since I don't think you actually care to see it).
> I will post the list.
> ...


What's with the disclaimer?  Just post it.  It's not my feelings that you are trying to protect.



Lacius said:


> What? "Not having sex" is not an ideal. What are you even blathering on about? I've never posted anything that's anti-sex.



Lol.  I don't see how it is possible, but it's lost on you.


Lacius said:


> I never once argued "there's no widespread voter fraud." As I've said repeatedly, there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. So, I am not arguing that absence of evidence equals evidence of absence


If there is widespread voter fraud, then there is evidence.  If there is zero evidence, then there is no widespread voter fraud.  You want to have your cake an eat it too.  This is a situation where nuance is important.  Previously, you have made claims that are more aligned with reality, ie: "Trump hasn't presented evidence"--even though it wasn't considered substantial evidence, it still is evidence, but I'll let you have that.  What I dispute about what you do is that you is make a statement that accounts for all of reality and possibility, essentially stating that it cannot exist.


Lacius said:


> I'm arguing absence of evidence equals absence of evidence, lol. Your argument falls apart here and now.


Disagree.  Stating that there is zero evidence is, by extension, saying that there is no widespread voter fraud.


Lacius said:


> That all being said, absence of evidence can sometimes be evidence of absence. It's a common misconception that absence of evidence is never evidence of absence.


I need at least one hypothetical example where this can be true so that I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you are *not backpedaling.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

NuadaXXX said:


> Bad comparison, transgender comparison against restrictions that affect the whole people


So as long as only a specific group of people are restricted, a person can restrict them with no limits and not be a dictator. Is that your logic?


----------



## NuadaXXX (Nov 18, 2020)

I would rather call that the lesser evil


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 18, 2020)

NuadaXXX said:


> I would rather call that the lesser evil


Care to elaborate what you actually mean by that statement?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 18, 2020)

Not that I am saying Trump is not a dictator, but it does seem to be supportive of the military by preventing it from being rife with lawsuits and the target of social scrutiny over a known social issue.  It is totally prejudiced, but the military is stronger if it has the support of the nation while everyone blames Trump instead.  It's just a thought.  No supporting evidence to provide from my end.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What's with the disclaimer?  Just post it.  It's not my feelings that you are trying to protect.



You made the claim that Trump could still win the election, but you never provided evidence of how this is possible, mathematically or otherwise. When specifically going down the route of widespread voter fraud, you never provided evidence of widespread voter fraud.
You made the claim I lied about making a mundane edit to my point. Whether or not I made the edit, you never provided evidence of a lie.
You made the claim that I said lying and pedophilia were comparable in how bad they were, but you never provided evidence.
You made the claim that there was another option with regard to you misunderstanding the burden of proof or being disingenuous when discussing the burden of proof, but you never provided another option. For context, you said Amanda had a burden of proof, when in fact she was calling you out for not providing evidence for other claims you made. When I described how you had the burden of proof, you continued to insist you did not. Since this followed my explanation of burden of proof, you either didn't understand burden of proof, or you were being disingenuous. There are no other options that you have demonstrated.



tabzer said:


> Lol.  I don't see how it is possible, but it's lost on you.


Be specific please. I have no idea what you're talking about. You don't see how what is possible?



tabzer said:


> If there is widespread voter fraud, then there is evidence.  If there is zero evidence, then there is no widespread voter fraud.  You want to have your cake an eat it too.  This is a situation where nuance is important.  Previously, you have made claims that are more aligned with reality, ie: "Trump hasn't presented evidence"--even though it wasn't considered substantial evidence, it still is evidence, but I'll let you have that.  What I dispute about what you do is that you is make a statement that accounts for all of reality and possibility, essentially stating that it cannot exist.


It is possible for there to be widespread voter fraud without there being evidence of widespread voter fraud, but the time to believe there was widespread voter fraud is when there's evidence of widespread voter fraud. I didn't once make the argument that there was definitely no widespread voter fraud (not that I don't believe this), and I never once said there absolutely couldn't be evidence of widespread voter fraud. I've only ever said there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and that's correct.

You would embarrass yourself less if you took the time to read my posts. You would also waste less time, because you're arguing against a version of me who doesn't exist.



tabzer said:


> Disagree.  Stating that there is zero evidence is, by extension, saying that there is no widespread voter fraud.


That's not how logic works. I can say there's zero evidence of extraterrestrial aliens, for example, but that's not necessarily an argument that they don't exist, and I wouldn't make that argument.



tabzer said:


> I need at least one hypothetical example where this can be true so that I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you are *not backpedaling.


First, it doesn't matter, since I didn't argue anything other than "there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud," which means I didn't make the argument that absence of evidence is in this case evidence of absence (not that I'm saying I don't agree with that).

As for an example when absence of evidence can be evidence of absence, take the claim that I keep a pet alligator in my basement. If you come over to my basement and see no alligator, no pool, no cage, no alligator food, no blood stains, etc., then you have absence of evidence that functions as evidence of absence. The same could be said for the claim that I own a cat in my house. If you come over to my house and see no cat, no litter box, no cat food, no cat toys, no cat hair, etc., this is an example of absence of evidence equaling evidence of absence.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

NuadaXXX said:


> Bad comparison, transgender comparison against restrictions that affect the whole people


A society that restricts the civil rights of a group can restrict the civil rights of any group. In other words, a society that's unjust for some is inherently unjust. A society that isn't free for some is a society that isn't free.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 18, 2020)

Honestly @Lacius and @tabzer I am getting tired of you both playing that little game of "I'm right, no I'M RIGHT!".

Pages and pages of pointless argument over something as simple as "show evidence of voting fraud", simply because each side is refusing to post their sources as long as the other one doesn't.

Sure this is pretty amusing to watch but damn I seriously wonder if you don't have anything better to do with your free time instead.

I won't be exaggerating saying this "argument" has been going for over 100 pages now.

Maybe is it time to maybe back up the statements (both of yours) instead of being so stubborn about waiting for the other person to make a move first?

Just passing by and felt like posting my observation.
Have a good day folks.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> Honestly @Lacius and @tabzer I am getting tired of you both playing that little game of "I'm right, no I'M RIGHT!".
> 
> Pages and pages of pointless argument over something as simple as "show evidence of voting fraud", simply because each side is refusing to post their sources as long as the other one doesn't.
> 
> ...


well one side is consistently posting multiple sources, the other is just making claims. i wouldnt say theyre equal


----------



## Drak0rex (Nov 18, 2020)

Recounts and investigations are happening. Two more scoops! <DD


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> Honestly @Lacius and @tabzer I am getting tired of you both playing that little game of "I'm right, no I'M RIGHT!".
> 
> Pages and pages of pointless argument over something as simple as "show evidence of voting fraud", simply because each side is refusing to post their sources as long as the other one doesn't.
> 
> ...


With all due respect, I've backed up the claims I've made, he's hasn't backed up the claims he's made (I listed them and literally did all of the work I can humanly do to help him attempt to do so), and I've said numerous times that in the absence of evidence from him, all we are doing is bickering, and I'm uninterested in bickering.

This isn't a "both sides are wrong" situation, and it's silly to say it is. If I were you, I'd delete his offending posts and mine that quote the offending posts.

Edit: I don't need it, but an argument can be made that I should also get an apology for being lumped into the same category as him.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> With all due respect, I've backed up the claims I've made, he's hasn't backed up the claims he's made (I listed them and literally did all of the work I can humanly do to help him attempt to do so), and I've said numerous times that in the absence of evidence from him, all we are doing is bickering, and I'm uninterested in bickering.
> 
> This isn't a "both sides are wrong" situation, and it's silly to say it is. If I were you, I'd delete his offending posts and mine that quote the offending posts.
> 
> Edit: I don't need it, but an argument can be made that I should also get an apology for being lumped into the same category as him.


Don't even worry about it you haven't done anything wrong at all unlike others with their hidden racist and transphobic comments.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Don't even worry about it you haven't done anything wrong at all unlike others with their hidden racist and transphobic comments.


Yeah, I haven't gone backwards in the thread, but I'm curious if the "being trans is a mental illness" or "being Democratic is a mental illness" posts received the same attention from staff.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Yeah, I haven't gone backwards in the thread, but I'm curious if the "being trans is a mental illness" or "being Democratic is a mental illness" posts received the same attention from staff.


I don't think so as they were reported by me and others but nothing done as usual.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I don't think so as they were reported by me and others but nothing done as usual.


I hate to say it, but it may be time I leave this site. My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.


----------



## Drak0rex (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I hate to say it, but it may be time I leave this site. My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.


Hey! Videogames! Remember those?


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I hate to say it, but it may be time I leave this site. My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.


And let us get overrun by bad actors?


----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I hate to say it, but it may be time I leave this site. My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.


Honestly I just come to this site to watch the right thrash and whine while getting corrected by facts and logic.


----------



## Lacius (Nov 18, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> And let us get overrun by bad actors?


Haven't you heard? I'm part of the problem.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)




----------



## Doran754 (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Yeah, I haven't gone backwards in the thread, but I'm curious if the "being trans is a mental illness" or "being Democratic is a mental illness" posts received the same attention from staff.





AmandaRose said:


> I don't think so as they were reported by me and others but nothing done as usual.



Leftist's stifling free speech, colour me shocked. There's a word for people who dont tolerate dissenting voices or opinions.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Leftist's stifling free speech, colour me shocked. There's a word for people who dont tolerate dissenting voices or opinions.


please look up what "free speech" actually means


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> please look up what "free speech" actually means


Please research public forum laws.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 18, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> please look up what "free speech" actually means



Yeah we dont all live in Germany, just because your backwards ass country enjoys telling people how to think doesn't mean we all must comply. Thanks.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234349


A lot of these are laughable at best and seriously reaching to near conspiracy theorist bullshit at worst, especially when you consider that this was sent on a device that is probably being monitored at this very moment. 

Also reeks of "Everything I don't agree with is Communism" that people on the right seem to love to subscribe to.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> A lot of these are laughable at best and seriously reaching to near conspiracy theorist bullshit at worst, especially when you consider that this was sent on a device that is probably being monitored at this very moment.
> 
> Also reeks of "Everything I don't agree with is Communism" that people on the right seem to love to subscribe to.


Thank you for saying nothing of value and instead merely calling me a red scare conspiracy nut (honestly anyone with more than two brain cells would be) and leaving all points intact.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> With all due respect, I've backed up the claims I've made, he's hasn't backed up the claims he's made (I listed them and literally did all of the work I can humanly do to help him attempt to do so), and I've said numerous times that in the absence of evidence from him, all we are doing is bickering, and I'm uninterested in bickering.
> 
> This isn't a "both sides are wrong" situation, and it's silly to say it is. If I were you, I'd delete his offending posts and mine that quote the offending posts.
> 
> Edit: I don't need it, but an argument can be made that I should also get an apology for being lumped into the same category as him.


I admit I may have poorly worded my post. I just woke up when I scrolled through more pages of it and just thought, you know, screw this, I feel like saying that.
Accusations was not the intention, but pointing out wasted time and bickering going nowhere was.

I too wanted to see evidence of backed up claims, but constantly reading through "If you have nothing to show, don't talk" over and over felt exactly like what I described.
That was nothing personal against yourself or anyone else, really.
It just gets old to hear one say they have evidence of something but refuse to show them, and the other constantly giving them attention, even if valid points were brought on the table, they may have been missed, and for that I apologise.

That being said, I also do not have anything useful to post in this thread, and so expecting users to have a conversation going somewhere probably was setting expectations too high.
One thing I can say for sure is that I do hope things get settled for good, regarding how the world is going.




AmandaRose said:


> Don't even worry about it you haven't done anything wrong at all unlike others with their hidden racist and transphobic comments.





Lacius said:


> Yeah, I haven't gone backwards in the thread, but I'm curious if the "being trans is a mental illness" or "being Democratic is a mental illness" posts received the same attention from staff.





AmandaRose said:


> I don't think so as they were reported by me and others but nothing done as usual.





Lacius said:


> I hate to say it, but it may be time I leave this site. My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.



As far as I know reports are handled the best we judge, (I also have taken a bunch of them when I could), even if it may take a few hours/days, we eventually take care of them.
Can't just straight up censor people, so yeah, posts I do not like too may remain.



Lacius said:


> Haven't you heard? I'm part of the problem.


Ah come on now. I think it's fair to say everyone is part of the problem, one way or another.
Nothing personal to anyone in here.



By the way, free speech doesn't mean a person is allowed be an asshole, but I think most of us know that already.
Anyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it's not the one another person agrees to. 
As long as it remains somewhat respectful that's as far as that can go. 

And now I suppose that's enough time from me posting in this thread for a bit, keep the discussion going folks.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Thank you for saying nothing of value and instead merely calling me a red scare conspiracy nut (honestly anyone with more than two brain cells would be) and leaving all points intact.


YES, They can only attack Supra Crazy illogical thinking not in what he said. I mean SUPRA KNOWS!!! it does not matter he's a 15 year homeschool kid that does not have any contact with the outside world beside similar minded people. or that he's still only getting  a C, C+ at most in civics class...from home. The only thing that matters is he's claim that He's personal "Freedom" over rules any one else Freedom or Safety.. 

I really like how this thread with from Biden lost to Biden Cheated and end up as Biden takes away rights lol


----------



## Naxster (Nov 18, 2020)

What did i miss? 

Have some people still not accepted that Trump lost? And that he might lose two times IF they recount everything?


----------



## Kurt91 (Nov 18, 2020)

Regarding the mentioned transgender ban in the military, I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment.

I'm not entirely familiar with the entire process, not being transgender myself, but isn't there a life-long hormone medication that you have to take? In the military, that may not always be available to you. If you're in a warzone, behind enemy lines, people fighting and dying around you, literal worst-case scenario, is the top priority of the higher-ups going to be making sure you have a steady supply of your hormone medication? The military also has medical requirements that you have to meet in order to join as well, for similar reasons. I have asthma, I doubt that the military wants to be in the same situation for me, just replacing "hormone medication" with "inhaler". I'm not going to be upset because there's an asthma ban in the military, there's a reason for it. Wouldn't it be the same situation regarding a transgender ban?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

djpannda said:


> YES, They can only attack Supra Crazy illogical thinking not in what he said. I mean SUPRA KNOWS!!! it does not matter he's a 15 year homeschool kid that does not have any contact with the outside world beside similar minded people. or that he's still only getting  a C, C+ at most in civics class...from home. The only thing that matters is he's claim that He's personal "Freedom" over rules any one else Freedom or Safety..
> 
> I really like how this thread with from Biden lost to Biden Cheated and end up as Biden takes away rights lol


Thank you for saying nothing of value and instead claiming that I live in an echo chamber or that anything is more important than individual liberty.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Yeah we dont all live in Germany, just because your backwards ass country enjoys telling people how to think doesn't mean we all must comply. Thanks.


sad troll attempt, but im obviously talking about us law


----------



## djpannda (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Thank you for saying nothing of value and instead claiming that I live in an echo chamber or that anything is more important than individual liberty.


hey im on your side .. just because we live a guarded compound in the middle of the forest. with no interaction from people any different from us. or the fact We are homeschooled with self published books.. like *'you're a naughty, naughty boy, and that's concentrated evil coming out the back of you'* and "*OBAMA: THE Devil's Muslim"* does not mean we don't think as logically as the rest of the world. and the fact that our testicles have not dropped or that fact that We never  left   the County of our birth does not mean That I don't know what freedom really means


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> claiming that I live in an echo chamber


you actually said that yourself


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 18, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:
			
		

> So in your world Trump is god then? You don't see any sin he has committed? Surely gluttony would be under one of those deadly sins, or greed.



Trump a god? Haha. I know your side blames him for the sun rising in the East every morning, but to me he’s just some rich asshole that happens to be good at running our country.



			
				monkeyman4412 said:
			
		

> One doesn't need to believe in god to want to be a good person. Define sin to me.



Sins are defined in the Christian Bible, but basically break down to certain behaviors that always end in pain, misery and death. You might sin and in the short term and produce good feelings, but in the long term there’s certain behaviors that are simply deadly and results in pain and suffering. The Christian Bible outlines all sorts of behaviors that end in death and misery. If you avoid these types of behaviors you’ll feel better about yourself as there will be no need to be depressed or take all sorts of drugs to make yourself feel a little semblance of normality.



			
				DuadaXXX said:
			
		

> Biden wins? welcome USA in the dictatorship



Correction. Biden is most likely going to get the most electoral votes when the electoral college votes in 2-3 weeks. Until then neither Trump nor Biden have won or lost anything.



			
				IncredulousP said:
			
		

> Honestly I just come to this site to watch the right thrash and whine while getting corrected by facts and logic.



What I find amusing is that it took almost the last 4 years of the Republicans telling the Liberals that facts and logic outweigh their personal wants, desires and emotional responses for the Liberals to finally accept reality isn’t formed by their emotions.

You’re using the “facts and logic statement” like you’ve been doing it your entire life except it’s actually recently acquired and accepted by Liberals.

For the past 4 years your side has been passing off emotional responses and desires as facts and logic, but finally they learned that’s not how reality works. Congratulations in becoming one step closer to actually living in reality and not some Liberal fantasy.



			
				Naxster said:
			
		

> Have some people still not accepted that Trump lost? And that he might lose two times IF they recount everything?



Biden is projected to be the winner, but since the electoral college hasn’t voted yet neither Trump or Biden have won or lost just yet


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 18, 2020)

In Detroit, there are FAR MORE VOTES THAN PEOPLE. Nothing can be done to cure that giant scam. I win Michigan!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 18, 2020


*Fact check: Trump's bogus claim of more votes in Detroit than people*
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...ogus-claim-more-votes-detroit-people-n1248121


> *Trump's claim about Detroit is demonstrably false.* There are 670,000 people living in Detroit, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's most recent estimate, and the city says that 250,138 ballots were cast there.





> Citation:
> 
> https://detroitmi.gov/webapp/election-results


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Thank you for saying nothing of value and instead merely calling me a red scare conspiracy nut (honestly anyone with more than two brain cells would be) and leaving all points intact.


None of those points were valid at all and, well, you posting and believing this non-sense doesn't really help your case.

5G wasn't put into place for surveillance anyone, it's just a new system for transmitting data. If you're that afraid of technology, then go off the grid, stop posting, and get rid of all electronic devices because there are more ways to track and survey you without the use of 5G. Hell your web browser on your computer gives up more information than that.

No one has taken away your ability to resist or socialize, you can still do that, most people just say to keep the gatherings small or at least to people living in your home.

Job loss sucks, but it happens in pandemics, it always has and even happened when the spanish flu hit years ago. Funny how countries that planned and did things properly felt almost no impact from measures however.

Quarantines are not containment camps. Your rights aren't taken away and if you are taken into them by the CDC themselves you are taken well care of and to compare it to such is utter complete intellectual dishonest at best.

As for creating monotony/boredom, welcome to the real world when you don't have tons of free time and can't do much of anything, The same could also be said of any job or even school so once again, shit point.

Once again, as with sports and other activities, they were stopped to slow and/or stop the spread of the virus. I honestly don't get how you don't understand how things like this get much worse when you have gatherings of hundreds of thousands of people, but given your current record with homeschool I doubt you understand how viruses spread whatsoever. Also, even if people aren't dying, they sure as hell are suffering in the hospital if they aren't lucky enough to be asymptomatic.

Again, no one has said once that you can't exercise or socialize either. There was honestly nothing wrong with going for a walk/jog in the morning and there was never an issue with it. Also, nothing to stop you from exercising at home either. And again, most people could socialize in many forms whether it be online or through keeping distance. There were people I knew that were still doing DND sessions.

Putting rules and guidelines in place are not threatening and that goes for any law or mandate in the US. What next are going to also get mad about fines being levied for not abiding by health codes set up by the states as well? Or, let me guess, that's "Too communistic" as well. 

This is where this whole list becomes so damn stupid and contradictory and why I was happy to just say it was stupid and move on. How the hell can you be mad about businesses closing in one point, but then mad when businesses that are necessary be opened? Do you not want people to get their supplies or don't you? Do you want all businesses closed or don't you? You can't have it both ways. Which comes to the next point where it complains about how restaurants were re-opened. Yes to a limited capacity as well for the safety and well being of everyone. And yes as the virus dies down of course more people are allowed in because you're less likely to catch it, I mean, again, look at other countries that actually handled the problem well and scientifically instead of making a pandemic a political point. 

Most people don't get shamed for wearing a mask unless they start being a raving lunatic about it and crying about how much it is ruining their lives and how they are being "oppressed" and that is because it makes them come off as whiny, entitled children who have never heard the word "No" before and haven't seen real oppression and suffering in their entire lives.

Creating money out of nowhere is a funny, mostly because they do this all the time with other issues but it never seems to get talked about. I would love to know where the billions for fighter jets and the military come from as well, but that doesn't seem to be the talking point here for some reason, just the fact that people would have been provided for during a pandemic, but whatever there. 

If standing in lines, circles, or in a queue makes you feel ashamed good lord I hope that you never ever have to shop during a sale at a store or during the holidays. This point honestly just sounds like more cry-baby "Help I'm being oppressed" bullshit. 

How in the actual fuck is a sanitation station fucking communistic really? This is honestly getting more idiotic the more I read it. Do you know what other viruses people carry as well? In food and medical industry people have to clean doors constantly for this reason and you're,,,,mad....that stores do it too. Again, more cry-baby bullshit. 

No one ever said family had to stay apart, but it is a good idea if you have had covid or tested positive for it. In fact most people have mostly been staying around family. However, this is another somewhat hypocritical point. At one point it says you can't socialize or leave the house, but now suddenly you should be staying with family? Can the person that made this please stop with the pendulum between what is good or bad in their opinion or do they just enjoy the hypocrisy. 

Not a single soul in this fucking world has said you should wear a mask in your home or having sex, this is the most unbelievable made up garbage fucking EVER and once again, the fact that you posted it all makes me think heavily on how bad your homeschooling is going if you believed this bullshit so damn easily. 

Finally, again, sanitizer being communistic is just making me laugh, but still, you definitely should be using sanitizer throughout the day if you are in a business that deals with lots of people of any age. If not, then no one suggests that you use it all the time because that is pointless and stupid, but this list as been both so far, so,,,,really not surprised here at all. 

So once again I say that this piece that you have posted is moronic, over-dramatic, conspiracy-nut, bullshit drivel that reeks heavily of bullshit "everything I don't like is communist" rhetoric. Now I never said you were those things, but given that you took such offense and were triggered so harshly by what I said I am willing to wager that what I said was true though.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 18, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> sad troll attempt, but im obviously talking about us law



No one is trolling, I'm being deadly serious, didn't Germany attempt to prosecute a comedian because of a joke about the Turkish president. LOL nobody is gonna take lectures from you or your country.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 18, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Not a single soul in this fucking world has said you should wear a mask in your home or having sex, this is the most unbelievable made up garbage fucking EVER and once again, the fact that you posted it all makes me think heavily on how bad your homeschooling is going if you believed this bullshit so damn easily.


WHOA WHOA watch your mouth .. we don't talk about "S-E-X" in front of the child. he's going to stay my baby boy for at least 10 more years


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 18, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> None of those points were valid at all and, well, you posting and believing this non-sense doesn't really help your case.
> 
> 5G wasn't put into place for surveillance anyone, it's just a new system for transmitting data. If you're that afraid of technology, then go off the grid, stop posting, and get rid of all electronic devices because there are more ways to track and survey you without the use of 5G. Hell your web browser on your computer gives up more information than that.
> 
> ...



You have some valid points, but you're not going to be taken that seriously by certain groups because the virus isn't even that deadly. It has a overall 99.8% survival rate with most people who get infected didn't even know they were infected because they didn't get sick.

I could see shutting down for 2 weeks, as planned, but we're in the 11th month now and the virus isn't going anywhere. What scares me is all of the changes to society and the fact that usually when changes that are promised to be temporary are made that they end up being permanent. Some of these new changes I fear will never be reverted back to the way it used to be and that scares me because then society has changed in a period of weeks over something that's not even that serious. It makes me scared because it shows how easy it is to manipulate people.

I've personally been wearing a mask and try to be socially distant, but what pisses me off is the fact that the Liberal left can criticize the right for not wanting to wear a mask or halt big gatherings, yet completely ignore the rules they are pushing on others whenever it seems convenient (like during the protests or after the lefist media claimed Biden won the 2020 election).

For the record, I'm wearing a mask around other people because it looks cool and I don't need pushy leftists in my face telling me to wear something. I do however support anyone that doesn't want to wear a mask or that wants to gather in large numbers, because after all ... the virus ended up not being that big of a deal. It's not that deadly what-so-ever.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



shamzie said:


> No one is trolling, I'm being deadly serious, didn't Germany attempt to prosecute a comedian because of a joke about the Turkish president. LOL nobody is gonna take lectures from you or your country.



What gets me is the abundance of people that aren't even citizens of the USA and have never been here think they know how to fix all of our problems and can tell us what to do and how to think. They all fail to realize they have zero experience as you can't even compare issues in other countries when there are so many differences between us and them. I guess though it is the Internet and everyone, even stupid people can chime in. I just tend to ignore stupid.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

shamzie said:


> No one is trolling, I'm being deadly serious, didn't Germany attempt to prosecute a comedian because of a joke about the Turkish president. LOL nobody is gonna take lectures from you or your country.


still trolling i see, ignoring the point that was made. look up what free speech actually means. heres a hint: it doesnt mean you can say whatever you want wherever you want without any repercussions


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 18, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I hate to say it, *but it may be time I leave this site.* My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.


Nah, don't leave.  We need fact checkers here and you're one of the best.  Also remember that you have more friends here than enemies.  _Annnnd_ most importantly, let's not lose sight of the big picture here:

*Biden defeated Trump.*

Typing that NEVER gets old!


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 18, 2020)

djpannda said:


> WHOA WHOA watch your mouth .. we don't talk about "S-E-X" in front of the child. he's going to stay my baby boy for at least 10 more years


what you feed him spoonfuls of racist redderic? anyways talking to you Maga idiots is like talking to a brick wall til my face turns blue........ pointless the quicker you accept facts that trump will be moving from the white house to the big house the sooner we could heal this political divide trump is doing every illegal thing imaginable from ripping up important intel to god forbid him telling putin military secrets compromising our national security we have no idea what he's doing behind closed doors in his final weeks and unfortionatly for trump his legal matters are state level he can't pardon himself nor anyone else not even biden can, he's cornered with no get out of jail free card the NY DA patched any loophole trump can use by not inditing him federaly at least the DA did his homework

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@ Lacius don't leave man do what i did and block the political threads from your forum feed for a bit til you're better (must admit I'm gonna take my leave from the political sub forum for a bit myself to cool off my heels)


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 18, 2020)

Quick type OBAMAGATE again maybe it will work this time


----------



## djpannda (Nov 18, 2020)

tiamat999 said:


> Quick type OBAMAGATE again maybe it will work this time


:: looks in the Mirror::: OBAMAGATE...OBAMAGATE*......OBAMAGAAATTTEE*


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 18, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Have you ever heard of the electoral college? They've yet to vote on the 2020 election and their vote makes Biden's win official. No one has won or lost just yet. Sure, the media is claiming someone won, but they don't decide who wins and who loses. I suggest you read up on the electoral college because their vote is what decides who the next President is and they haven't voted yet



true but 29 states + DC (Majority of of them biden won) REQUIRE the Electoral to vote who won in that state or face severe reprocussions fine and even jail

the states are

Alabama (Code of Ala. §17-19-2)
Alaska (Alaska Stat. §15.30.090)
California (Election Code §6906)
Colorado (CRS §1-4-304)
Connecticut (Conn. Gen. Stat. §9-176)
Delaware (15 Del C §4303)
District of Columbia (§1-1312(g))
Florida (Fla. Stat. §103.021(1))
Hawaii (HRS §14-28)
Maine (21-A MRS §805)
Maryland (Md Ann Code art 33, §8-505)
Massachusetts (MGL, ch. 53, §8)
Michigan (MCL §168.47)
Mississippi (Miss Code Ann §23-15-785)
Montana (MCA §13-25-104)
Nebraska (§32-714)
Nevada (NRS §298.050)
New Mexico (NM Stat Ann §1-15-9)
North Carolina (NC Gen Stat §163-212)
Ohio (ORC Ann §3505.40)
Oklahoma (26 Okl St §10-102)
Oregon (ORS §248.355)
South Carolina (SC Code Ann §7-19-80)
Tennessee (Tenn Code Ann §2-15-104(c))
Utah (Utah Code Ann §20A-13-304)
Vermont (17 VSA §2732)
Virginia (§24.2-203)
Washington (RCW §29.71.020)
Wisconsin (Wis Stat §7.75)
Wyoming (Wyo Stat §22-19-108)

basicly the EC is for the most part bound by law (even though state level no federal law exist (if the ec isn't dismantled there should be a federal law passed that requires this btw those states electorals that go rogue when bound if they vote for trump their vote is basicly thrown out and doesn't count for trump ) so yes biden did win


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 18, 2020)

Kurt91 said:


> Regarding the mentioned transgender ban in the military, I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment.
> 
> I'm not entirely familiar with the entire process, not being transgender myself, but isn't there a life-long hormone medication that you have to take? In the military, that may not always be available to you. If you're in a warzone, behind enemy lines, people fighting and dying around you, literal worst-case scenario, is the top priority of the higher-ups going to be making sure you have a steady supply of your hormone medication? The military also has medical requirements that you have to meet in order to join as well, for similar reasons. I have asthma, I doubt that the military wants to be in the same situation for me, just replacing "hormone medication" with "inhaler". I'm not going to be upset because there's an asthma ban in the military, there's a reason for it. Wouldn't it be the same situation regarding a transgender ban?


Oh a genuine question about what life is like as a trans woman. Well first of all yes we do mostly have to take hrt for all our life but the same applies for cis woman who have PCOS or cis women who have early menopause ect. So if the fact is that we can't be in the American army because of our need for HRT shouldn't that also mean all women shouldn't be in the army because at some point in their life they will need to take hrt.

So why is it important for trans women and women with PCOS or menopause to take hrt well let me explain.

Sex hormones do more than just help with the development of secondary sex characteristics. One of the big things we talk about in transgender hormone therapy, as we age, is osteoporosis or brittle bones.

Osteoporosis is more common in cisgender women than cisgender men and the decrease of estrogen during menopause plays a significant role in that. In cisgender men, low levels of testosterone contribute significantly to the onset of osteoporosis.

So, what about trans people?

The group with the greatest need of HRT as a life long treatment are trans individuals who have had gonads (ovaries or testes) removed as part of their transition. The gonads are the body’s most significant producers of sex hormones and without them the body will have considerable difficulty maintaining bone health. The solution for this is hormone therapy.

Trans people who have not had their gonads removed face a different problem. Stopping HRT would result in their bodies returning to a state where the sex hormones of the gender they were assigned at birth are once again dominant. Trans men would start to see feminization and trans women would experience masculinization, both of which would be considerably distressing in the sense of managing dysphoria.

As trans people age, hormone doses are adjusted and so are hormone delivery methods (at least, for trans women.) Oral, transdermal and injectable estrogens all have different risks and trans people may be moved from one delivery method to another as a means of mitigating health risks that occur with some specific delivery methods (such as  DVT, blood clots and stroke risks.)


----------



## CompassNorth (Nov 18, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> .


Your post literally contributed nothing but try to stir up drama by acting like a centrist.

Lacius has been posting proof as other as stated, people been posting outright false statements that these users kept parroting as fact with constant refusal to back up their claim. To fault Lacius for wanting to engaging in conversations with facts and wanting others to do the same and to say "well I just woke up and thats what I saw" is a crappy excuse

It's also alarming that your response  "censorship is bad" and freedom of speech for a user who kept ridiculing trans youth.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> *removed content*


This meme is funny, Not because of the content, but because one user that thinks "5G towers are spying on me" and "Hand Sanitizer is communist"  has the audacity to call out others for mental illnesses in any form or capacity.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> This meme is funny, Not because of the content, but because one user that thinks "5G towers are spying on me" and "Hand Sanitizer is communist"  has the audacity to call out others for mental illnesses in any form or capacity.


Note to self: read the memes you post before posting them.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 18, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> Your post literally contributed nothing but try to stir up drama by acting like a centrist.
> 
> Lacius has been posting proof as other as stated, people been posting outright false statements that these users kept parroting as fact with constant refusal to back up their claim. To fault Lacius for wanting to engaging in conversations with facts and wanting others to do the same and to say "well I just woke up and that what I saw" is a crappy excuse
> 
> It's also alarming that your response  "censorship is bad" and freedom of speech for a user who kept ridiculing trans youth.


And I will agree with you, that was indeed a waste of time to reply here.

That's all on me for willingly read 100 pages, and posted my 2 cents when not asked for it.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 18, 2020)

CompassNorth said:


> Your post literally contributed nothing but try to stir up drama by acting like a centrist.
> 
> Lacius has been posting proof as other as stated, people been posting outright false statements that these users kept parroting as fact with constant refusal to back up their claim. To fault Lacius for wanting to engaging in conversations with facts and wanting others to do the same and to say "well I just woke up and that what I saw" is a crappy excuse
> 
> It's also alarming that your response  "censorship is bad" and freedom of speech for a user who kept ridiculing trans youth.



"how dare you not agree with my side unequivocally, i demand my opponents be silenced so I don't have to listen to opposing world views, la la la"


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

>post gets removed for facts

Yep, sounds like it's time for me to leave the political subforum before I get banned for an opinion.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> it's time for me to leave the political subforum


good idea


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 18, 2020)

Basically I can say the nastiest thing ever to a person or group. As long as I say "free speech", I'm golden.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Basically I can say the nastiest thing ever to a person or group. As long as I say "free speech", I'm golden.


All speech is free speech.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> All speech is free speech.


no
https://www.uscourts.gov/about-fede...ational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 18, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> no
> https://www.uscourts.gov/about-fede...ational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does


Our rights are being infringed.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 18, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Our rights are being infringed.


no, you just dont know what "free speech" for your country actually means


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 19, 2020)

chrislink said:
			
		

> true but 29 states + DC (Majority of of them biden won) REQUIRE the Electoral to vote who won in that state or face severe reprocussions fine and even jail



I’m aware of this, but the Liberals on this site and all around the country aren’t even aware of how the electoral college works. They haven’t voted yet so Biden is not yet the President Elect. It’s like getting to the 8th level of a video game and claiming you beat it, when you haven’t even gotten to the last 2 levels yet. Biden didn’t win just yet.



			
				Luminvader said:
			
		

> Nah, don't leave. We need fact checkers here and you're one of the best. Also remember that you have more friends here than enemies. Annnnd most importantly, let's not lose sight of the big picture here:



Biden didn’t win yet. Get a clue, learn how the election works.



			
				AmandaRose said:
			
		

> Oh a genuine question about what life is like as a trans woman. Well first of all yes we do mostly have to take hrt for all our life but the same applies for cis woman who have PCOS or cis women who have early menopause ect. So if the fact is that we can't be in the American army because of our need for HRT shouldn't that also mean all women shouldn't be in the army because at some point in their life they will need to take hrt.
> 
> So why is it important for trans women and women with PCOS or menopause to take hrt well let me explain.
> 
> ...



Mentally ill people that are dependent on drugs should not be allowed into our armed forces. They will become an unneeded expense and distraction.



			
				CompassNorth said:
			
		

> Your post literally contributed nothing but try to stir up drama by acting like a centrist.
> 
> Lacius has been posting proof as other as stated, people been posting outright false statements that these users kept parroting as fact with constant refusal to back up their claim. To fault Lacius for wanting to engaging in conversations with facts and wanting others to do the same and to say "well I just woke up and that what I saw" is a crappy excuse
> 
> It's also alarming that your response "censorship is bad" and freedom of speech for a user who kept ridiculing trans youth.



Lacuis only posts things that give the appearance of supporting his position. He’s a delusional Godless sicko.

For your XYZ123 people, anyone that supports identity politics is mentally ill.



			
				shamzie said:
			
		

> "how dare you not agree with my side unequivocally, i demand my opponents be silenced so I don't have to listen to opposing world views, la la la"



This is what the Liberals proceed to do after calling themselves tolerant.



			
				ut2k4master said:
			
		

> no



Yes.



			
				ut2k4master said:
			
		

> https://www.uscourts.gov/about-fede...ational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does



Educational overreach by demented Liberals doesn't define what free speech is. Free speech is being able to say what you want without being persecuted. The Left will have you believe it's something else so they can use it as a way to control you. I bet if I do something, like spell a certain word on this forum, like n***** I'll get banned. That's not freedom of speech. Yes, private entities can control what you type, but if they are controlling what you type on their site or what you can say in their business then they are not supporters of free speech in general. Basically, Liberals suck and are brainwashing people into thinking they can only say certain things and they aren't allowed to say other things.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSupra said:
			
		

> (prageru pix)



Safety is an illusion. You could die at any point in time during your life. You could drop dead in the next 10 seconds. There's also probable leading causes of death, like speeding down a highway at 60 MPH and hitting a wrong way driver ... Yet, we still all get in cars and drive. Sure, death is scary for some people, but the Liberals know that and use that fear to control others with. Freedom isn't living in a society where people get to tell you what you can only say and do.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Biden didn’t win yet. Get a clue, learn how the election works.


99% of the ballots have already been counted in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin.  *There is no path forward for Trump to overtake Biden's lead* without providing evidence of widespread election fraud, *which you already admitted there is none*.

Biden's electoral victory becoming "official" is a *mere formality* at this point.  Your argument amounts to nothing more than a formal waiting exercise, which is far too weak to support the haughty manner in which you responded.

Major media outlets have already called Biden the winner more than a week ago, including Fox News.  Heads of state from around the world have already congratulated Biden and Harris.  Trump's base did the same thing back in 2016.

All that's left is gregory-samba's acknowledgement laced with "woe is me" after December 14th.


----------



## Kurt91 (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh a genuine question about what life is like as a trans woman. Well first of all yes we do mostly have to take hrt for all our life but the same applies for cis woman who have PCOS or cis women who have early menopause ect. So if the fact is that we can't be in the American army because of our need for HRT shouldn't that also mean all women shouldn't be in the army because at some point in their life they will need to take hrt.
> 
> So why is it important for trans women and women with PCOS or menopause to take hrt well let me explain.
> 
> ...



Okay, so if those are the side-effects of HRT not being available for a trans-person, then what about cis-women with PCOS or early menopause? What are the side-effects for the medication not being available in that situation? For trans-people, the side-effects appear to be visually obvious and certainly incredibly mentally distressful, which could result in poor decision-making when added to the additional stress being in a worst-case scenario reliant on life-or-death spur-of-the-moment decisions. (Again, playing Devil's Advocate here. Obviously, if I need to ask these sorts of questions, I don't have a horse in this race myself. I do have a younger sister who might, she's on-and-off about wanting to be referred to as male, has a girlfriend, and basically hasn't fully decided what her exact situation is, though she refers to herself as bisexual.)

Anyways, what I'm getting at is, for a trans-person, not having the appropriate medication available would be disastrous to their mental well-being, which would be worse when compounded with worst-case scenario military stresses. In a similar situation for a cis-woman who doesn't have said medication available, what would the side-effects be and would they be as bad as far as mental well-being? (I'd look it up on Google, which I did to figure out what PCOS stands for, but I get queasy and sick very easily as far as blood or other medical-type things go, and I'd rather not stumble on medical images and stuff and make myself throw up.)


----------



## g00s3y (Nov 19, 2020)

"Biden will raise taxes on people making $400,000+ a year"

Trump supporters who don't even make $40,000 a year complaining about it.

Shows just how dumb the average Trump supporter is, can't even read correctly, much less spell or do some form of math.

Gregory over here losing his mind because he doesn't understand how things work, LMAO.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


>



This should seriously get you banned.

What the f*ck are you doing?

1. Isolation as a concept on the left and on the right is entirely different
2. There is no captor
3. No intense sense of concern with self develops, because you have all kinds of 'escapist' means (Netflix, telephone, web, family, Zoom ...) - including spreading f*cking FUD on an internet forum to hurt other people.

ISOLATION PERIOD (if you are infected, last for about a week (depends on your local, in some its still two weeks) - after that you have walks, parks, work, grocery stores, friends, extended family, ..). And is not likely to be repeated for a year.

4. Escapism is pushed as 'great'.


5. Other stimulis arent eliminated (this means, dark room, no light, no window, not being able to hold a conversation with someone.

6. Induced Exhaustion is noise torture and induced sleep deprevation, you f*ck.

7. No tension, no fear - unless you are dying in a hospital.

8. The only one cultivating Fear and Despair is you and your brotherhood.

9. No consequences for non compliance, apart from social shunning. Or consequences that are so low, they will be dismissed, before you go in front of a court. (Show, not action.))

10. No hinderance to adjustment.

11. No demonstration of futility of resistance. (You should have seen people in my parts meeting up at wineries shortly before the second lockdown). Also you f*cks have rallies all over the country. Whats that?

12. No display of public power/pressure. (Everything is soft power, everything is nudging.)

13. No creation of fear of freedom, no creation of dependance from capturers.

14. Demands are logical and not contradictory.

15 No reinforcement of who is on control.

YOU FLYING F*CK, GET OUT AND SH*T INTO SOMEONE ELSES COMMUNITY YOU OUTRAGEOUS PIECE OF HATE, TRYING TO BURN EVERYTHING DOWN.

Also - and just as a kicker, those are not 'communist coercive methods' you f*ck, those have been developed as psychological 'interrogation' techniques, all over the world independently. Israel probably being the leading instance in applying modern psychiatric deduction and lingo to those. Making it easily parsable for people who want to learn.


Not only are you lying.
Not only are you misrepresenting.
Not only are you inducing fear in people.
Not only are you resorting to actively not understanding points and messing up fake 'comparisons' in 15 plus points
Not only is the historical context you are giving wrong.
Not only are you actively exploiting semantics (isolation, vs. ISOLATION).
The entire aim of this posting is to TERRORIZE people.

You flying piece of....


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 19, 2020)

"ban those who post things I dont like " every lefty on this site. boring as fuck.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

shamzie said:


> "ban those who post things I dont like " every lefty on this site. boring as fuck.


Ban him (not you the other guy), this is an utterly sickening display of spreading FUD.

If you are dumb enough to believe the resemblences here - you are even playing with the image of people being tortured, and comparing youreself to being under state suppression and torture.

Misrepresenting their situation, misrepresenting the situatuon - to spread fear for no reason. Because you are only out to want attention you little piece of...

This should get you banned - seriously.

This is the equivalent of setting the entire forum on fire. And of course - you bring it easily digestable as a meme.

This is not just PROPAGANDA, this is psychological torture in its self.

Banned.

15+ of those comparisons dont hold up in any way - the creator of that meme knew it (from time to time he just threw in non sequitors as comparatives - that arent even trying to mírror the meaning of the torture 'how to' on the left). You f*cks.


And if you want to at least leave the appearance of historical accuracy, you'd call it 'stalinist', and not 'communist'. But thats not the point, is it? Better use communist, because its the trigger word you need to use to get dumb peoples attention. W00t? The communist world conspiracy? Is it that time already? Pieces of PROPAGANDA throwing sh*ts.

First ridiculing Biden for a personal report about his experiences in hospital with a brain aneurisma (cutting away the context), now misrepresenting yourselves as the victims of state torture... Belittling actual victims of torture.

Please, go out and shout your hate out in the middle of the streets of your capital, walk in circles there - screming about state induced isolation and torture. Leave other people alone with this "education".

edit: Here more torture from the local supermarket chain in my area:


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 19, 2020)

notimp said:


> Ban him (not you the other guy), this is an utterly sickening display of spreading FUD.
> 
> If you are dumb enough to believe the resemblences here - you are even playing with the notion of people being tortured, ab comparing youreself to people under torture.
> 
> ...



Or you could just ignore him, why must everyone be banned and shut down, he has no impact on your life. Put him on mute, dont need to constantly deplatform people. The left would get so much further if their defacto stance wasn't to ban literally anyone they disagree with.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 19, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Or you could just ignore him, why must everyone be banned and shut down, he has no impact on your life. Put him on mute, dont need to constantly deplatform people. The left would get so much further if their defacto stance wasn't to ban literally anyone they disagree with.


Imagine thinking that not wanting people to spread misinformation and conspiracy theories is a "lefty" idea and that the spread of misinformation can't cause harm to someone else. 

Or maybe we should talk to the family of victims from school shootings who were harassed and attacked after being called "Crisis actors" by people on the right and ask them how they feel about giving platforms to those that love to spread misinformation and conspiracy theories.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234402


First, Prager-U, just the amount of idiocy that site spews is absolutely hilarious.

Second, Maybe you would like to look at New Zealand for a moment, you know, a country that actually listened to scientists and medical professional on how to deal with this virus. I mean surely they are still under lockdown.....

Oh wait,, they aren't. In fact they recently had a stadium full of people recently with no masks or anything after they brought their cases to zero.


----------



## Scarlet (Nov 19, 2020)

NuadaXXX said:


> Trump has not passed any laws that restrict you, Biden will do it day 1
> 
> In my logical understanding, only someone is a dictator who restricts the people.


I'm curious, what do you think laws are? By definition they restrict you.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 19, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Imagine thinking that not wanting people to spread misinformation and conspiracy theories is a "lefty" idea and that the spread of misinformation can't cause harm to someone else.
> 
> Or maybe we should talk to the family of victims from school shootings who were harassed and attacked after being called "Crisis actors" by people on the right and ask them how they feel about giving platforms to those that love to spread misinformation and conspiracy theories.
> 
> ...



Imagine thinking everyone must be shut down and silenced. Youll have your echo chamber one day.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 19, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Imagine thinking everyone must be shut down and silenced. Youll have your echo chamber one day.


It amazes me how many words you love to put in others mouths. 

Did I say everyone? No. I didn't. 

But so far most of your arguments have boiled down to "lefty this" and "Lefty that" while spiraling down into hyperbole constantly. 

Just for the record though, so it is perfectly clear, I only want misinformation and baseless conspiracy theories silenced because those actually lead to real world harm in some form or another or already have in some instances. 

Feel free to believe in bullshit if you want, but don't fling it all over the place to others.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Or you could just ignore him, why must everyone be banned and shut down, he has no impact on your life. Put him on mute, dont need to constantly deplatform people. The left would get so much further if their defacto stance wasn't to ban literally anyone they disagree with.


No - because those propaganda memes are designed to pray on people who actually are lonely, and kind of not that bright.

You take the 'something is wrong - they are stealing the election' kickstarter your lovely president gave you. You add more fear, you add more anger, you separate the person this meme gets addressed to from any even partly reasonable explanation, by insisting 'this is bigger - listen to the presidents conspiracy explanation'.

You use an established 'enemy motive' ('communist bad guys'), to trigger nationalistic and 'emergency' thoughtpaths.

You target people, that actually feel alone and separated from others during the pandemic.

All the while you are feeding 'shock' and 'fear' in 20 seperate items yourself.

After that comes the message, which peters out to 'dont trust the other political side with anything' your life, or your psychological health - depends on it.

This has to stop.

"Ignoring it" - is what you'd want as the producer of that propaganda. Only lure in lonely desperate gamers that are losing their grip on reality.

This is what the person who has to be banned does in here.

Do you understand that?

Those memes are not jokes. This propaganda is written for a purpose. (Half of the comparisons dont even make sense, someone banked on emotional impact, and didnt even try to make sense. This is not a believe system, this is a 'are you dumb enough - to be that emotionally manipulated" check. To lure in more people into deranged thought systems, driven by fear, driven by agency (something has to be done, the communist plan!), prayed on by people who fake to offer them community and knowledge.

This has to stop.

Now.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Nov 19, 2020)

I mean, anyone with a few brain cells will see how much bullshit this is (a dead object being communist? Seriously?). But i can see it working for people already deep enough into conspiracies (sadly a few here are). That shit should certainly not get spread.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

Issue - now everything with the conspiracy label gets banned from online distribution?

No - benefit of the doubt. Actually looking at stuff, spelling things out...

All of this was null and void for our repeat offender for the tenth time.

This is not the first respective picture meme, sporting nothing but lies, he posts without any comment in here - this is probably the 100th.

Moderation in this forum is biased as heck, and only interacts - when they can threaten bans on people that are smarter than they are.


When they have real extrimism problems, the stay back and try to sit it out.

Worst community ever.

You have: Five people backing each other up on on the most horrible, entirely senseless propaganda  possible.

Defending each other on principal - trying to delegitimize any claims of misconduct.

You have the moderator, that aids conspiracy narratives, by telling people - oh no - every election is rigged - using methods of forging ballots, it just matters by how much - which is BULL (If a method doesnt scale it incentivises people not to use it. If the ability for your method to work can not be guaranteed from one year to the next - no one is putting money into that.).

Everyone is claiming, they have forgotten, that manipulating people by propaganda (narratives) is a popular form of mass and vote manipulation as well. No no, forging individual ballots is the issue - PR is not!

Completely detached from reality. Here is a manipulation concept that works and scales throughout the years. Create a Propaganda outlet. Pray on people that for their life cant follow baselevel logic on anything. Feed them with fear. Feed them with hate. Lock them up in bubbles. Have them post propaganda memes, instead of engage in arguments. Use the dumbest 'villain image' you can find (communism). Bank on people that are dumb and have a Jesus complex most.

They will be so devoted - they'll literally make it their lives, trying to evangelize other people, refusing even the potential, that with everything they do, they hurt others, just like them. For life. Because if thats the case, that doesnt match up with their selfimage of 'warning people'.

Get payed for being able to mobilize those people by twitterposts.

Bonus: Trap them in media ecosystems, that only are based on outrage, fear and sensationalism. Have them pay for it.


This is from the idiots dream to riches playbook. Every moron, wants to set up 'an events circuit' - for a competitive videogame? For a collectible card game? Doesnt matter, as long as it gets you payed. Tell those people not to trust other media, you have the only news they ever need in your life.

Keep them without perspective, without hope, getting their endorphine rushes from narratives they internalize, that have them anticipate fear, based on a villain concept. Give them a candy for everytime they do so (literal indoctrination). Make them extremists. Have them flock out to gaming forums, posting your predesigned memes, with keywords, that lead them into certain bubbles.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AT LEAST ONE MODERATOR IN HERE, that condones this.

Then enforce silence - and let every single instance of this 'just wash over'.


You know something? You know when we reach the end of free speech? When organizers produce their own fear cults, drawing already suffering people into them, with promises of more tales of woe - and a bigger narrative of conspiracy, that only they can see..


And the best part of it? If we censor 'conspiracy' talk in general, we weaken democracy.

Let me think. hm... yes, I would like to finance that as an establishment guy. Please. Enter the state of the US - as of now.

Rumored 200 mio for a Trump media network? But I would gladly - just think of all the subscription fees!

And who thinks of all the people traped in those narratives?

This forum has a solution for it? 'Cant you just ignore it?'


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 19, 2020)

LumInvader said:
			
		

> 99% of the ballots have already been counted in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin. There is no path forward for Trump to overtake Biden's lead without providing evidence of widespread election fraud, which you already admitted there is none.
> 
> Biden's electoral victory becoming "official" is a mere formality at this point. Your argument amounts to nothing more than a formal waiting exercise, which is far too weak to support the haughty manner in which you responded.
> 
> Major media outlets have already called Biden the winner more than a week ago, including Fox News. Heads of state from around the world have already congratulated



You may call it a formality, but it’s the actual vote that decides who the next President is. I understand your side is claiming they won so it would go against the hive mind to think otherwise, but Biden is only projected to win at this point in time.

Once the Electoral College actually votes no one has won or lost. You also don’t know me or know how I’ll react when the final winner is chosen. I’ll simply state the facts which Biden is now the President Elect, but to state that right now would be lying.



			
				chary said:
			
		

> This message by UltraSUPRA has been removed from public view by Chary, Today at 4:13 PM, Reason: not an imageboard. Today at 4:02 AM



So @UltraSUPRA ’s MEMES get deleted, but @LumInvader ‘s don’t?



			
				g00s3y said:
			
		

> Gregory over here losing his mind because he doesn't understand how things work, LMAO.



No, you apparently don’t know how things work. There’s a vote that’s taken that decides who is the next President and that vote hasn’t happened yet. I’m also not losing my mind as I feel sorry for the majority here because they are being manipulated like sheep and all that comes out of their mouths is “bahhhhhhh”.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 19, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Imagine thinking everyone must be shut down and silenced. Youll have your echo chamber one day.


> Bases his claims of voter fraud off of boomer memes on Facebook

> Accuses someone else of being in an echo chamber

LMAO


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

this should be renamed "conservative cope thread"


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You may call it a formality, but it’s the actual vote that decides who the next President is. I understand your side is claiming they won so...


There are more than two sides on every story.

Your side is currently banking on pushing the declaration of the voting results to the end of time. Because as your side very well knows, its not the vote that decides the next President, its the poeople who announce the results of the vote.

Trump declared himself 'having won' states on twitter. By himself. No democratic agency, no media outlet, no narrative backing him at all.

You just claim something - thereby making it a reality others have to deal with.

This is manipulation.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> this should be renamed "conservative cope thread"


Mods, get on it.  They're probably gonna need a couple hundred more pages to get out all the tears.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Scarlet said:


> I'm curious, what do you think laws are? By definition they restrict you.


"laws are meant to restrict bad people and not me because i'm not bad people"


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

ok.. I just died a little inside... Rudy is having a press conference and not only did he leak hair dye but now they are claiming Dominion is a Cuban and Venezuelan operation..headed by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.... reminder Hugo Chavez denied in 2013.. this MotherFer been died for almost 8 years from a broke destroyed nation.. but he was able to come back to life and create a   million dollar company that has security clearance from multiple countries.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 19, 2020)

notimp said:
			
		

> There are more than two sides on every story.
> 
> Your side is currently banking on pushing the declaration of the voting results to the end of time. Because as your side very well knows, its not the vote that decides the next President, its the poeople who announce the results of the vote.
> 
> ...



No, you misunderstand. You and the rest of the morons here think I'm stating that Biden hasn't won yet because I'm holding out for some miracle that would make Trump win. I'm pretty sure at this point in time that Biden is going to win and that's fine, society will continue to crumble into sin and perversion, but I have no reason to lie to myself or others that the electoral college voted for him. Until the electoral college votes Biden is not the President Elect. You can't tell the future nor can I, so it would be foolish me to call someone a winner before the actual voting takes place. You want to call it a formality, well it's a fucking really big ass formality. Plus you and everyone else's assumptions that I'm not lying like the rest of you because I think Trump could still win is not what I'm thinking.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> this should be renamed "conservative cope thread"


And no - this is belittling the issue.

You have recruitment propaganda memes in here, aiming at getting people to hate 'the other side', or else they would be hurt more. Because there are parallels to 'communism', and the reason they (people that are adressed with this sh*t) are/would be socially isolated).

This is not coping.

This is attack propaganda. This is getting people into the worst kind of selfinflicted pain and suffering. Keeping them in those loops. Then cashing in on them -

This is 'we use the concept of democratic grass routs organizing' pervert it to the max - create our own pressure group based on outrage and fear based narratives - then design propaganda and spread it in vulnerable communities, until we are popular enough by shere interaction through outrage. Then we matter.

And the people who finance our efforts? Either have to actively want everyone to remain stupid as hell, or want to target people that can stick to emotionally crafted narratives for longer, without them causing any troubles. Make sure, they are really dumb. Make sure they are only driven by emotion. Make sure they never question authority. Make sure they are willing to recruit more marks, just for status.


And the funny thing? This is politics - when it concerns a topic, thats actually of interest to people. But you effing hack their attention systems. Fear, horror, conspiracy, enemy, fraud, outrage, they are stealing from you - now pay up on your subscription fee.

Worst cult - ever.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT people not being able to cope with a loss of Trump, this is about grifters using that narrative to sideline more people, push them into extremism, push them into echo chambers, devide them from their relatives and real world friends - take your 'political group as your daily supplement' - this is organizing. Around 'I dont want to wear a mask, I think the russians want me to'.

Just because you dont want to deal with this happening - doesnt mean it isnt - in this forum. Right here and now.

For how long are you willing to look away and condone it?

Are we now play acting normality - just to 'wish' it onto existence? This is something else.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> this should be renamed "conservative cope thread"


Don't act like you didn't do the same thing for four years when Trump get elected. Not only that, but there is actual proof of voter fraud this time.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

notimp said:


> This is attack propaganda.


Propaganda is pretty shit when it's something everyone is laughing at. Point and laugh at the idiots. Look at them clinging to obvious falsehoods just because they can't handle the truth. Not that the truth ever stopped them.



UltraSUPRA said:


> Don't act like you didn't do the same thing for four years when Trump get elected. Not only that, but there is actual proof of voter fraud this time.


Nah. I was pretty upset on election day, but I got over it. Imagine being this mad more than 2 weeks out


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Don't act like you didn't do the same thing for four years when Trump get elected. Not only that, but there is actual proof of voter fraud this time.


yea don't forget 4 years ago ..when me and SUPRA Were 10 years old... and never saw actual sunlight


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 19, 2020)

notimp said:
			
		

> Issue - now everything with the conspiracy label gets banned from online distribution?
> 
> No - benefit of the doubt. Actually looking at stuff, spelling things out...



You see Liberals come up with code words like racist, homophobe, transphobic and now conspiracy theories that are used by their leaders to control them. Liberals will not look into things with certain labels. There's no logic, there's no valid thought process. There's just "it's labeled this way so we have to ignore it". It's all about control to the Liberal left. You have to fall in line and drink the politically correct stew, but just don't ever start to think for yourself. People who ignore Liberal labels and ask the tough questions are discarded because the Liberals need sheep not people that can think for themselves.



			
				UltraSupra said:
			
		

> Don't act like you didn't do the same thing for four years when Trump get elected. Not only that, but there is actual proof of voter fraud this time.



The Liberal left still hasn't acknowledged that Trump is their legitimate President so I don't know why these idiots on this board like @Xzi are celebrating 'conservative tears' when their side still hasn't accepted the results of the 2016 election.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

KageNinja said:


> It would be a major kick to the teeth if Trump got in after all of the fraud got exposed.



Trump also claimed he has won, someone is going to have a major kick in the teeth.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The Liberal left still hasn't acknowledged that Trump is their legitimate President so I don't know why these idiots on this board like @Xzi are celebrating 'conservative tears' when their side still hasn't accepted the results of the 2016 election.


The COPE
Look at this _dude_ projecting onto liberals
Well, I'm not a liberal, mate, but I am a leftie.
*Trump sure did win in 2016, he just did a lot of illegal shit since then, and I'm pretty happy he's gone.*
Is that satisfactory?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Don't act like you didn't do the same thing for four years when Trump get elected. Not only that, but there is actual proof of voter fraud this time.


Is that why trump's lawsuits are being thrown out left and right and his own legal team has been backing down and withdrawing lawsuits as well? 

I mean, surely if they have real proof they should just present to the case and win right? Not just shout "fraud" and then get absolutely nothing done. 

Or do you have proof this time of something factual supra? or are you just blowing more smokes out of your ass?


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> There's no logic, there's no valid thought process.



Just because you don't understand the thought process, doesn't mean it's not valid.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Propaganda is pretty shit when it's something everyone is laughing at.


10% of population arent nothing. Even if you try to ignore them as best as you can (DNC in concept). Give people that have no perspective the feeling of mattering and an actual idea, that they could grow - and then matter, and they will live for it.

They will not care about the people they hurt in the process - they will not care for the poor little fools, that fall for 'oh its horrible, Covid really is like communist psychological torture' please, dear meme posting sir - what shall I do?

They will effing laugh about them  - call them marks, and exploit them for another year.

This is whats enabled in this forum.

This is what people are trying to sideline, and talk over to have vanish - and simply dont want to look at.

You now have three of the five appologists trying to burry that issue right here and now.

Try posting griefing propaganda intended to induce more fear and more outrage, and more extreme concepts, one more time and - NOTHING happens.

Outrage, and hate meme postings continue. No one is confronted. People acting like none of it happened.

F*ck you for it. (Addressed at those people.) Honestly. Deeply. So that you feel what you are doing.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

Scarlet said:


> I'm curious, what do you think laws are? By definition they restrict you.



Well someone of them are dressed up to restrict the "other people", you know the bad people that aren't Trump supporters. They think of those like a warm blanket.



gregory-samba said:


> The Liberal left still hasn't acknowledged that Trump is their legitimate President so I don't know why these idiots on this board like @Xzi are celebrating 'conservative tears' when their side still hasn't accepted the results of the 2016 election.



I don't think anyone is disputing the result of the 2016 election, that doesn't mean they have to support the president. Just like you don't support Biden in 2020.



SonowRaevius said:


> I mean, surely if they have real proof they should just present to the case and win right? Not just shout "fraud" and then get absolutely nothing done.



Trump brain dead supporters have suggested that it's valid to shout fraud and then look for fraud.

Like you would walk into a crowded building and shout Fire, before looking to see if there was any fire. Because you know like there could be some fire hidden somewhere that nobody can detect.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

notimp said:


> 10% of population arent nothing.


I'm gonna be real with you, man. I agree with basically everything you said. But you're not gonna win by being wordy, anyone with a brain has already dismissed the fraud claims Trump is making, because they have no basis. We're uniquely empowered in this fight because we're _right_. There's mountains of debunks and responses to every claim they have access to.

So... What do? I'm gonna laugh in their faces and if they make any dumb claims, I'll strike it down in short order and return to laughing. I invite you to do the same.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I'm gonna be real with you, man. I agree with basically everything you said. But you're not gonna win by being wordy,


Agree - but what do we do. Ignoring it, has brought us to this point (looking at society around me).

Censorship is not the solution. Not if we dont want to seriously harm the democratic system.

I mean you can do it. Dumb people down. Own the major narrative. Ignore the rest thats happening. Is this really the future?

Aren't people just assuming this goes away, with Trump?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> I don't think anyone is disputing the result of the 2016 election, that doesn't mean they have to support the president. Just like you don't support Biden in 2020.


Nah, they're refusing to face reality. It's not the same thing. Trump lost by about the same margin he beat Hillary, which Trump called a landslide. It is over by every metric except the whiny boi in the White House salt-tweeting every day.



notimp said:


> Agree - but what do we do. Ignoring it, has brought us to this point (looking at society around me).


I suggest trying to bring liberals to the left. We need a strong socialist faction to move the Democratic Party toward the policies that people support. Nobody is happy Biden won, they're happy because _Trump lost.
_
It is fortunate that, like Obama before him, Biden will not solve anyone's problems. More Boomers will die in the next four years, and more Gen Z'ers will be able to vote. Bank on the next generation's overwhelming support for the left, and count your lucky stars you dodged the freight train that was Trump 2. I'm optimistic. Keep at it.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The Liberal left still hasn't acknowledged that Trump is their legitimate President so I don't know why these idiots on this board like @Xzi are celebrating 'conservative tears' when their side still hasn't accepted the results of the 2016 election.


First, American liberals are centrists at best.  Second, I accepted the results on election night 2016, though it took a while longer to fully sink in.  Third, you're free to scream, "not my president" all you want, that's a very different concept from "not THE president."

Trump was the second worst presidential candidate of all time (behind only Hillary Clinton for losing to him), and among the top three worst presidents of all time.  And the sad thing is: he still would have won if not for his piss-poor handling of the pandemic.  It was the first time the Trump administration had to deal with a disaster that wasn't of their own making, and they got a big fat F on that report card.

Your problem was believing Trump was a shoe-in to win when all the national polls had Biden up by about ten points.  I knew it'd be a lot closer than that, and I knew Trump still had about a 33% chance to win.  In that same vein, you should've given Biden at least a 33% chance (much more if you weren't inside an information bubble) in order to avoid all this drama in the aftermath of defeat.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Xzi said:


> And the sad thing is: he still would have won if not for his piss-poor handling of the pandemic.


Can you believe ol' Corn Pop got over the line, though? 200k people died and he barely won, what a shitshow


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Your problem was believing Trump was a shoe-in to win when all the national polls had Biden up by about ten points.



Well polls are quite unreliable & the thought of Biden winning is so alien to them that they see it in itself as evidence of fraud.

"It must be fraud as there was ballot after ballot for Biden and not Trump".

If all the ballots were for Trump then to them it would be evidence of a fair and well run election.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:
			
		

> The COPE
> Look at this dude projecting onto liberals
> Well, I'm not a liberal, mate, but I am a leftie.
> Trump sure did win in 2016, he just did a lot of illegal shit since then, and I'm pretty happy he's gone.
> Is that satisfactory?



Thanks for using yet another Liberal code word as that proves my point. You claim what I said is "projection" so it's to be automatically discarded and trashed. However, even if it was me personally projecting it's not untrue. You can project the truth. It's called having experience and the knowledge to identify something and that doesn't default to your side doing it. It just means you know how to call bullshit when you see it. The labeling from the anti-label kids is what you side does to control the masses. Except, the shit doesn't work on me.

You also might want to watch out with acknowledging Trump won the 2016 election as that isn't gonna jive with Liberals that well.



			
				smf said:
			
		

> Just because you don't understand the thought process, doesn't mean it's not valid.



No, I understand the thought process just fine. Your side puts labels on things that are to be automatically discarded and not thought about. It's thought control, which is part of the socialist agenda. You want to outlaw words, phrases and rational thought as that will give your side more control over the general population.



			
				Darth Meteos said:
			
		

> I suggest trying to bring liberals to the left. We need a strong socialist faction to move the Democratic Party toward the policies that people support. Nobody is happy Biden won, they're happy because Trump lost.
> 
> It is fortunate that, like Obama before him, Biden will not solve anyone's problems. More Boomers will die in the next four years, and more Gen Z'ers will be able to vote. Bank on the next generation's overwhelming support for the left, and count your lucky stars you dodged the freight train that was Trump 2. I'm optimistic. Keep at it.



Socialism always fails. Good luck implementing an old ass way of Government created by old rich white men and have it succeed. By design its flawed because it doesn't take into account dishonesty and your side is completely dishonest.

It's funny how the Democratic establishment spent years lying about Trump and their members bought every line. They became so disillusioned that they openly supported a child fondling centrist that isn't going to really budge on any of the issues he said he would during his campaign. It's funny because their leadership has so much control over them that they made them elect someone that probably won't change shit all over hatred for a man that they hate only because they are told to hate him. "Anyone is better than Trump" is a poor excuse to vote for someone that won't do jack shit he promised to do and that likes to fondle preteens breasts. It's actually one of the most stupid excuses I've ever heard in my life, but TDS does effect people and makes them make the most illogical decisions possible.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Can you believe ol' Corn Pop got over the line, though? 200k people died and he barely won, what a shitshow


Yes and no.  It seemed closer early, but as the count went on, the more Biden pulled away.  He's going to end up with the highest vote total for any presidential candidate ever, and he got about 3 more states than he needed for 270 EC votes.

Georgia is my favorite, wanna know why?  It would have gone red if not for all the Trump supporters there that died of COVID-19.  Now there's even a good chance the state gives Dems a majority in the senate.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Is that why trump's lawsuits are being thrown out left and right and his own legal team has been backing down and withdrawing lawsuits as well?
> 
> I mean, surely if they have real proof they should just present to the case and win right? Not just shout "fraud" and then get absolutely nothing done.
> 
> Or do you have proof this time of something factual supra? or are you just blowing more smokes out of your ass?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Thanks for using yet another Liberal code word as that proves my point.


Look at this _DUDE_, calling a psychological term a LIBERAL CODE WORD 



gregory-samba said:


> You claim what I said is "projection" so it's to be automatically discarded and trashed.


Bruh, projection is when someone puts something they're guilty of onto someone else to cope with it. You were saying that liberals couldn't handle Trump winning, but you're the ones trying every trick in the book to avoid facing the truth. It's.... SAD!



gregory-samba said:


> You also might want to watch out with acknowledging Trump won the 2016 election as that isn't gonna jive with Liberals that well.


If someone is saying that Trump didn't win 2016, they're as dumb as you, and I don't care if I offend them.



gregory-samba said:


> Socialism always fails. Good luck implementing an old ass way of Government created by old rich white men and have it succeed. By design its flawed because it doesn't take into account dishonesty and your side is completely dishonest.


Still more projection! Nah, I'm satisfied with my policies of choice. Besides, I think that a system that doesn't guarantee modern living necessities like housing, healthcare and education is a failed system. That's a pretty fucked system, where people are on the streets and treated like garbage while the top 1% has more money than they could ever spend.



Xzi said:


> Georgia is my favorite, wanna know why?  It would have gone red if not for all the Trump supporters there that died of COVID-19.  Now there's even a good chance the state gives Dems a majority in the senate.


That is objectively funny.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234461 View attachment 234462


yes and Fidel Castro developed  the G-virus to create zombies with Umbrella to have dead people voting!! quick someone send a signed affidavit to RUDY!!! THIS NEED TO COME OUT


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> _*fart noise*_


I love these pictures! They're so easy to beat!
The first one is a batch of mail-in ballots coming in, which were overwhelmingly Democratic. You can be sure they were, because Trump was saying over and over that they were corrupt and illegal leading up to the election, so Republicans didn't use them as much. On top of that, Democratic voters are more afraid of COVID, being that they aren't believing the undermining lies of the Trump Admin.

The second one is very easy to explain: The current president was a massive motivating factor. A lot of people love him and are highly motivated to vote, and a lot of them are highly motivated to take him out. Unless you're saying that Trump is low energy like Jeb! in 2016?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I love these pictures! They're so easy to beat!
> The first one is a batch of mail-in ballots coming in, which were overwhelmingly Democratic. You can be sure they were, because Trump was saying over and over that they were corrupt and illegal leading up to the election, so Republicans didn't use them as much. On top of that, Democratic voters are more afraid of COVID, being that they aren't believing the undermining lies of the Trump Admin.
> 
> The second one is very easy to explain: The current president was a massive motivating factor. A lot of people love him and are highly motivated to vote, and a lot of them are highly motivated to take him out. Unless you're saying that Trump is low energy like Jeb! in 2016?


As for Dominion?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As for Dominion?


Okay, I've had a look around, and it seems to be the claim by the Trump Admin that a company called Dominion erased several million votes, yeah?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Okay, I've had a look around, and it seems to be the claim by the Trump Admin that a company called Dominion erased several million votes, yeah?


Proven in Michigan. 6000 votes went from Trump to Biden in real time.
Also, it was software.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Proven in Michigan.


Big if true! Let's see the proof, then.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Big if true! Let's see the proof, then.


https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/0...ty-tallied-6000-republican-votes-as-democrat/


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/0...ty-tallied-6000-republican-votes-as-democrat/


ya boi really just used a federalist article as a source

Well, I read through the article, and it was sure a bunch of claims. Fortunately, this case has gone to court. The judge dismissed the case, saying that the case presented wasn't valid due to a..._ “... failure to persuade the Court of the existence of manifest error requiring reversal...”_ 
So, according to the court where this case was filed, it doesn't even have enough evidence behind it to reach trial. Wah wah.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As for Dominion?


YESSS, RUDY  is RIGHT DOMINION is stealing the election because Hugo Chavez.... ..yes HUGO, Fidel and Gorbachev all got together in 2012. and created a Tech Company with security clearance in multiple countries in the world... all to steal the election after but only the 2nd one Trump was in.....SMART!! Those Crafty libs

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Proven in Michigan. 6000 votes went from Trump to Biden in real time.
> Also, it was software.


it had to be a mistake....because there no way 6000 minorities  voted for their best interest.. NO its not because 80 million voted against TRUMP. it was those 6000 minorities

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/0...ty-tallied-6000-republican-votes-as-democrat/


https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...-theory-photo-photograph-video-proof-evidence
We believed the election was stolen and ELIVS Is alive!!!!! TRUTH is out there, man


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> it had to be a mistake....because there no way 6000 minorities  voted for their best interest.. NO its not because 80 million voted against TRUMP. it was those 6000 minorities


Worth noting: Biden won Michigan by nearly 140,000 votes. Even if 10x the number of "fraudulent" votes were there, Biden would still win.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Worth noting: Biden won Michigan by nearly 140,000 votes. Even if 20x the number of "fraudulent" votes were there, Biden would still win.


no.. Rudy already explained this.. if those 6000 black people voted then we need to throw all the votes from the County. all 600k.. we can not trust the votes because we Republicans slipped and allowed some black people vote


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> no.. Rudy already explained this.. if those 6000 black people voted then we need to throw all the votes from the County. all 600k.. we can not trust the votes because we Republicans slipped and allowed some black people vote


Big mistake on their part. I thought they had cops to stop that from happening?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> ya boi really just used a federalist article as a source
> 
> Well, I read through the article, and it was sure a bunch of claims. Fortunately, this case has gone to court. The judge dismissed the case, saying that the case presented wasn't valid due to a..._ “... failure to persuade the Court of the existence of manifest error requiring reversal...”_
> So, according to the court where this case was filed, it doesn't even have enough evidence behind it to reach trial. Wah wah.


It's amazing isn't it? He ignores those facts and just regurgitates the same links over and over again despite the claims being proven false several times over. 

Funny enough, he can never actually refute someone else's point and when he can't he will just move on to another as some type of distraction or just tries to insults people,


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

if this is not true then... Im not a real Pannda!


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Funny enough, he can never actually refute someone else's point and when he can't he will just move on to another as some type of distraction or just tries to insults people,


If he wasn't good at selectively ignoring facts to fit his worldview, he wouldn't be a conservative.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> If he wasn't good at selectively ignoring facts to fit his worldview, he wouldn't be a conservative.


@SonowRaevius @Darth Meteos 
SUPRA does not change topics because he can not face the truth.. or he runs away when someone is winning the Convo or realized theres no comeback... He would not do that..


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> @SonowRaevius @Darth Meteos
> SUPRA does not change topics because he can not face the truth.. or he runs away when someone is winning the Convo or realized theres no comeback... He would not do that..





UltraSUPRA said:


> I know when to give up.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> ..


I stand corrected.....DAMN you SUPRA!! abandoning me


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Why hasn't this thread been moved to the "EOF" subsection, yet?  For one, the title is not true as the election hasn't been called by the Electorates.  Two, it will never be true as Trump won by a landslide which will be shown after his lawyers get all the illegal votes removed from the final counts.  

Any pedocrats here who are praising a false win should be upset at the fact that our election was tainted and that the only way your side can win is through cheating.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Why hasn't this thread been moved to the "EOF" subsection, yet?  For one, the title is not true as the election hasn't been called by the Electorates.  Two, it will never be true as Trump won by a landslide which will be shown after his lawyers get all the illegal votes removed from the final counts.
> 
> Any pedocrats here who are praising a false win should be upset at the fact that our election was tainted and that the only way your side can win is through cheating.


THANK You we need to make sure EVERY LEGAL WHITE VOTE IS COUNTed
We Republicans believe in making American GREAT again.. you know before 1865 that pesky Emancipation Proclamation... jez that was the biggest Error we Republicans Made


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> THANK You we need to make sure EVERY LEGAL WHITE VOTE IS COUNTed
> We Republicans believe in making American GREAT again.. you know before 1865 that pesky Emancipation Proclamation... jez that was the biggest Error we Republicans Made



With your apparent racism showing, it is quite clear you are a demonrat.  Only a true person of hate could so comfortably post the idiocy I've read so far.



djpannda said:


> THANK You we need to make sure EVERY LEGAL LIVING REPUBLICAN OF ANY RACE'S VOTE IS COUNTed


Here.  If you were a true republican, this is how you would say this.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> With your apparent racism showing, it is quite clear you are a demonrat.  Only a true person of hate could so comfortably post the idiocy I've read so far.


really?? that funny  because I was going to say the same thing after reading my Fellow Republicans post all day


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> really?? that funny  because I was going to say the same thing after reading my Fellow Republicans post all day


I haven't seen any republican try pulling "identity politics" into their posts.  Only a dumbocrat would insert race into an argument.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> With your apparent racism showing, it is quite clear you are a demonrat.  Only a true person of hate could so comfortably post the idiocy I've read so far.
> 
> 
> Here.  If you were a true republican, this is how you would say this.


sorry I guess you mad because I speak legal white vote ... I know know only say "legal vote" in public... we only say white meetings... I understand...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> I haven't seen any republican try pulling "identity politics" into their posts.  Only a dumbocrat would insert race into an argument.


Thank you because those DEM, can't see the TRUTH.Dominion is a Cuban and Venezuelan operation..headed by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez 1953-2013.. and part of a bigger plot of Goldfinger who trying to radiate the US Fort Knox to have CUBA gold worth more...


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> sorry I guess you mad because I speak legal white vote ... I know know only say "legal vote" in public... we only say white meetings... I understand...


Ok, so why do you have so much hate in your "heart"(sorry for assuming you have one)?   If you were a true republican, you would know that we don't see race when it comes to equality.  White, black, asian, etc....  it doesn't matter as we are all Americans in the US.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Why hasn't this thread been moved to the "EOF" subsection, yet?  For one, the title is not true as the election hasn't been called by the Electorates.  Two, it will never be true as Trump won by a landslide which will be shown after his lawyers get all the illegal votes removed from the final counts.


COPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPE
Imagine being such a degen that you actually think this



morvoran said:


> I haven't seen any republican try pulling "identity politics" into their posts.  Only a dumbocrat would insert race into an argument.


Bro, Republicans never shut the fuck up about identity politics, it's always identity politics with you guys. There's a reason fascists call the Republican party home, and it's because they can get their racist agendas passed. I've never met someone so warped that they can't cope with the realities of their party.
Or do you think the Proud Boys voted for fuckin' Biden? 



djpannda said:


> Thank you because those DEM, can't see the TRUTH.Dominion is a Cuban and Venezuelan operation..headed by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez 1953-2013.. and part of a bigger plot of Goldfinger who trying to radiate the US Fort Knox to have CUBA gold worth more...


I actually lost it at this comment, you got a laugh, nice work


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Ok, so why do you have so much hate in your "heart"(sorry for assuming you have one)?   If you were a true republican, you would know that we don't see race when it comes to equality.  White, black, asian, etc....  it doesn't matter as we are all Americans in the US.


AMEN You tell them!! WE are all American as long as we Christian Republican.. -Lindsey graham
But not you dare come if you III-taliain hindU


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

So Trump will rule the world! Mark my words.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Bro, Republicans never shut the fuck up about identity politics, it's always identity politics with you guys. There's a reason fascists call the Republican party home, and it's because they can get their racist agendas passed. I've never met someone so warped that they can't cope with the realities of their party.
> Or do you think the Proud Boys voted for fuckin' Biden?


  We only bring up identity politics to push back on the racist agenda of the left to legislate based on race rather than merit.  If your side stopped pushing racism as a way to win races, we wouldn't have to mention it. 
The Proud Boys?   What do they have to do with anything?
Also, Biden is less "fuckin'" and more about shoving fingers up inside unsuspecting women.



djpannda said:


> Thank you because those DEM, can't see the TRUTH.Dominion is a Cuban and Venezuelan operation..headed by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez 1953-2013


  Yeah, I guess Hugo Chavez can't use a voting system to cheat if he's dead, but I did hear he voted for Biden, also.



SG854 said:


> So Trump will rule the world! Mark my words.


Since he's the only republican with a backbone to fight against the left, I am almost to the point of pushing for this.  I already would suggest to let his presidency be a lifetime appointment.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> COPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPECOPE
> Imagine being such a degen that you actually think this


>your party supports pedophilia, illegal immigrants, and crack but you have the balls to call us degenerates


Darth Meteos said:


> Bro, Republicans never shut the fuck up about identity politics, it's always identity politics with you guys. There's a reason fascists call the Republican party home, and it's because they can get their racist agendas passed. I've never met someone so warped that they can't cope with the realities of their party.


Affirmative action gives one race benefits that another doesn't. Do you support that?


Darth Meteos said:


> Or do you think the Proud Boys voted for fuckin' Biden?


Alexa, who is the leader of the Proud Boys?


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 19, 2020)

A bit late, but "false statements of fact", isn't covered by free speech.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> , Also Biden is less "fuckin'" and more about shoving fingers up inside unsuspecting women.



Thats funny considering Trump said it was acceptable to grab women by the pussy without their consent.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> We only bring up identity politics to push back on the racist agenda of the left to legislate based on race rather than merit.  If your side stopped pushing racism as a way to win races, we wouldn't have to mention it.
> The Proud Boys?   What do they have to do with anything?
> Also, Biden is less "fuckin'" and more about shoving fingers up inside unsuspecting women.
> 
> Yeah, I guess Hugo Chavez can't use a voting system to cheat if he's dead, but I did hear he voted for Biden, also.


SHOOT really we have to tell RUDY bout HUGO Chavez voting... THIS IS BIIG.. I mean RUDY is Just having Anyone with  information sign a signed affidavit. Heck I just Gave Rudy one that says B*ig Foot is rea*l... and if at least 50 people sign one Rudy will go on National News and a*sk for The CIA to look for Big Foot*


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Can you believe ol' Corn Pop got over the line, though? 200k people died and he barely won, what a shitshow


@Lacius would disagree with you that he barely won. He said it wasn't even close. That Biden had a big lead.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> So Trump will rule the world! Mark my words.


He technically kinda does, he's still the president
I mean... Who else is there? Everyone lines up to be cucked by the USA.



morvoran said:


> We only bring up identity politics to push back on the racist agenda of the left to legislate based on race rather than merit.  If your side stopped pushing racism as a way to win races, we wouldn't have to mention it.


Okay, let's have an honest policy discussion. Conversation starter: I think that we should guarantee healthcare to all citizens as a right by utilizing a single-payer scheme, popular in all the other countries in the West. It would remove a heavy bankruptcy burden on the economy, and would put our tax dollars to work for our benefit. Discuss!



morvoran said:


> The Proud Boys?   What do they have to do with anything?


Trump's most ardent supporters that he told to stand by in the debate? Remember? They're pretty important to understanding the underlying racial policies and history of the Republican party.



morvoran said:


> Also, Biden is less "fuckin'" and more about shoving fingers up inside unsuspecting women.


A little late to be taking this moral stand when you voted/would have voted for "Grab 'em by the pussy" man.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Thats funny considering Trump said it was acceptable to grab women by the pussy without their consent.


Actions speak louder than words.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Speaking of bad memory you guys still have to save Michael Flynn good thing I reminded you


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> [QUOTE="]
> Thats funny considering Trump said it was acceptable to grab women by the pussy without their consent.


  Wrong!!!!  He said that they would let you "grab them", but Biden just goes knuckles deep without warning


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Actions speak louder than words.


yes I mean who cant agree with us, will all the lawsuit we won ..GO RUDY


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> @Lacius would disagree with you that he barely won. He said it wasn't even close. That Biden had a big lead.


He has a big lead in the popular vote, it is true, but he didn't win by the margin that was to be expected. Frankly, the fact it wasn't a 40+ state blowout after Trump administered over 200,000 deaths due to a pandemic is a self-own for the Democratic Party.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> A bit late, but "false statements of fact", isn't covered by free speech.


Exactly why I'm asking why this thread is not moved to the EOF subsection of the forum.  These lies are allowed by free speech that I'm happy that most of the admin honors, but they should be moved to the proper sections.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wrong!!!!  He said that they would let you "grab them", but Biden just goes knuckles deep without warning


WRONG! 





Mister Green did it with the Candlestick in the living ROOM

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


>


JImbo you back.. I missed you after you left for a while...


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> He has a big lead in the popular vote, it is true, but he didn't win by the margin that was to be expected. Frankly, the fact it wasn't a 40+ state blowout after Trump administered over 200,000 deaths due to a pandemic is a self-own for the Democratic Party.


  Only because of all the major ballot drops that all occurred around 4 am the morning after the election.  I wonder how many of those 200,000 "covid" deaths voted for Biden to give him such a lead in the popular vote.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Exactly why I'm asking why this thread is not moved to the EOF subsection of the forum.  These lies are allowed by free speech that I'm happy that most of the admin honors, but they should be moved to the proper sections.


yes move this thread.. just like we moving that GOALpost!


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> >your party supports pedophilia, illegal immigrants, and crack but you have the balls to call us degenerates


It's not my party, man, I'm far to the left of the corporate neo-liberal fucks of the Democrats. That being said, they don't support pedophilia. Is this some QAnon shit?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Affirmative action gives one race benefits that another doesn't. Do you support that?


Affirmative Action is a balancing force to counter systemic racism. I'm not going to get into this with you, it's a nuanced topic and it's wasted on you.



UltraSUPRA said:


> Alexa, who is the leader of the Proud Boys?


You can answer you this time, mate!


UltraSUPRA said:


> Actions speak louder than words.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wrong!!!!  He said that they would let you "grab them", but Biden just goes knuckles deep without warning


No he didn't he said

*Bush*: Whatever you want.

*Trump*: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

*Bush*: Uh, yeah, those legs, all I can see is the legs.
Here is the full interview transcript

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.amp.html?0p19G=0232

Do you want video proof.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only because of all the major ballot drops that all occurred around 4 am the morning after the election.  I wonder how many of those 200,000 "covid" deaths voted for Biden to give him such a lead in the popular vote.


yes we don't care if 200,000 died or 20,000,000, Trump won and just because we don't understand how Mail in voting work... or even care to figure it out because  MY UNCLE BOB said TRUMP WON!!!


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wrong!!!!  He said that they would let you "grab them", but Biden just goes knuckles deep without warning


Mate, if we're going by allegations here, Trump has got quite a bit more of them than Biden. Do you really wanna go down this road?


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes move this thread.. just like we moving that GOALpost!


Well, just like anytime the Democrats are starting to lose, they always want to move the goalpost to change the rules into their favors (see Wisconsin recount meeting to decide how to alter the recount rules which didn't pass).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> Mate, if we're going by allegations here, Trump has got quite a bit more of them than Biden. Do you really wanna go down this road?


Any evidence of that?  Any signed affidavits, video, paper evidence?  Trump's legal team would like to see it.

FYI, I'm not your mate, Buddy.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> picture


Mate, if I replaced Kamala with Rudy and Left with Right it would be just as valid. Liberals don't know how to argue.



morvoran said:


> Only because of all the major ballot drops that all occurred around 4 am the morning after the election.  I wonder how many of those 200,000 "covid" deaths voted for Biden to give him such a lead in the popular vote.


With the usual zero evidence, a conservative chimes in!


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only because of all the major ballot drops that all occurred around 4 am the morning after the election.  I wonder how many of those 200,000 "covid" deaths voted for Biden to give him such a lead in the popular vote.


HUNTER BIDEN,HILLARY E-MAILS,OBAMAGATE,SETH RICH, BENGAHZI, DEEPSTATE MOLE CHILDREN


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> FYI, I'm not your mate, Buddy.


I'm not your buddy, friend!


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>


Actually, even republicans are throwing lawsuits out. Even some republicans are admitting there's no widespread fraud and Biden won.  

"Don't care. I only trust fringe right wing sites."


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> No he didn't he said
> 
> *Bush*: Whatever you want.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Reade claims Biden sexually assaulted in a hallway while she was working for him in 1993. According to Reade, Biden pinned her against a wall, shoved his hands up her skirt, and his fingers into her vagina. Reade has no fewer than five contemporaneous witnesses who say Reade told them about the assault at or near the time it happened. There is also video of Reade’s anguished mother calling into a 1993 edition of CNN’s _Larry King Live_ desperately seeking advice for her daughter’s problems with a “prominent senator. ”

How's that better than simply suggesting that they would let you grab them????


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Reade claims Biden sexually assaulted in a hallway while she was working for him in 1993. According to Reade, Biden pinned her against a wall, shoved his hands up her skirt, and his fingers into her vagina. Reade has no fewer than five contemporaneous witnesses who say Reade told them about the assault at or near the time it happened. There is also video of Reade’s anguished mother calling into a 1993 edition of CNN’s _Larry King Live_ desperately seeking advice for her daughter’s problems with a “prominent senator. ”[/QUOTE]



MICHAEL FLYNN DIGITAL ARMY DID YOU FORGET


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, just like anytime the Democrats are starting to lose, they always want to move the goalpost to change the rules into their favors (see Wisconsin recount meeting to decide how to alter the recount rules which didn't pass).
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


YES I mean look at all these AFFIDAVITS ... I know we have given ENOUGH Signed Affidavats that Big foot lives ...I mean Why is big foot not in the Endangered list... I mean all those people signed a paper..


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> YES I mean look at all these AFFIDAVITS ... I know we have given ENOUGH Signed Affidavats that Big foot lives ...I mean Why is big foot not in the Endangered list... I mean all those people signed a paper..



You have any proof of signed affidavits about Bigfoot existing?   I need more than just a humanoid panda stating such things exist.

I don't need more proof that the election results are tainted as there is no way 315% of voters in counties in Michigan voted for Biden.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You have any proof of signed affidavits about Bigfoot existing?   I need more than just a humanoid panda stating such things exist.


SHIT Sorry I think Rudy took them and Voter Fraud when he went to Four Seasons landscaping...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> You have any proof of signed affidavits about Bigfoot existing?   I need more than just a humanoid panda stating such things exist.
> 
> I don't need more proof that the election results are tainted as there is no way 315% of voters in counties in Michigan voted for Biden.


yes voter fraud.. its not that a lot more people  15 millions  registered to votes.. or that Minorities voted in Records numbers..no its voter fraud... ( SEE I did good I did not mention its only in black communities)


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Actually, even republicans are throwing lawsuits out. Even some republicans are admitting there's no widespread fraud and Biden won.
> 
> "Don't care. I only trust fringe right wing sites."


You must only be getting your info from CNN and MSDNC as if you would look into other sources, you would know that most of the Republican lawsuits being withdrawn were made before the election.   In fact, the Trump team only issues 3 lawsuits so far and only withdrew one of them as it was to fight the certification in Wayne County, MI that the 2 republicans recanted their votes which made the lawsuit pointless.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

Oh look at this so much for Trump being all squeeky clean. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...duct-karen-johnson-how-many-a9149216.html?amp

Oh look he actually does go around grabbing em by the pussy without invitation.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

yes voter fraud.. its not that a lot more people  15 millions  registered to votes.. or that Minorities voted in Records numbers..no its voter fraud... ( SEE I did good I did not mention its only in black communities)[/QUOTE]  

I know dumbocrats are only taught to hate the US in schools, but even a mush brain would know you have to "REGISTER TO VOTE" in order to be allowed to vote.  Michigan counties had 315% more people than were "REGISTERED TO VOTE" vote in this election.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I don't need more proof that the election results are tainted as there is no way 315% of voters in counties in Michigan voted for Biden.


Less than half of the people in Detroit voted, but try again.
It's nice when the claims are so easy to debunk, hit me with another softball


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

Seriously, there is some kind of voter fraud going on, but the problem is that thank god for me and democrats, the amount is only about 1000 votes at best in each state, which is as best and we could only add around 500 at average. There is no way biden will not win the popular vote at least, and a very good chance that he will win the college. Which is good. AND the fraud is carried out by others, not demos, just trolls who want to fuck GOP, which we will gladly let.

TLDR: There is some kind of voting fraud, but that always happens every time, and the amount is so small that literally biden will still win the popular vote and probably the college.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I know dumbocrats are only taught to hate the US in schools, but even a mush brain would know you have to "REGISTER TO VOTE" in order to be allowed to vote.  Michigan counties had 315% more people than were "REGISTERED TO VOTE" vote in this election.


yes you tell them!! you don't need to actually show proof of voter registration log of  those Counties because them it might make us look like fools ..people should believed it because I said it..... because facts does not matter just because I heard it on facebook makes it REALL


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Seriously, there is some kind of voter fraud going on, but the problem is that thank god for me and democrats, the amount is only about 1000 votes at best in each state, which is as best and we could only add around 500 at average. There is no way biden will not win the popular vote at least, and a very good chance that he will win the college. Which is good. AND the fraud is carried out by others, not demos, just trolls who want to fuck GOP, which we will gladly let.
> 
> TLDR: There is some kind of voting fraud, but that always happens every time, and the amount is so small that literally biden will still win the popular vote and probably the college.




The popular vote is as relevant as the vote in Canada.   lrn2civics.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> dumbocrats





morvoran said:


> MSDNC


you must live in a pretty robust bubble to think those terms are anything less than cringe, mate


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

This post is just shows how small the actual amount of votes are.


Still dosent change the fact that biden will probably win.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Seriously, there is some kind of voter fraud going on


You are not immune to propaganda
You do not need to compromise with these people, there is no voter fraud provable
They are coping and you are hearing them sound certain and modifying your position
Stop. There is no voter fraud. They are full of it.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> In fact, the Trump team only issues 3 lawsuits so far



Well that's just patently untrue. https://www.ft.com/content/20b114b5-5419-493b-9923-a918a2527931


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

Ya read my entire comment? I said there might be, but its so small and also is not from demos. Please read.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> You are not immune to propaganda
> You do not need to compromise with these people, there is no voter fraud provable
> They are coping and you are hearing them sound certain and modifying your position
> Stop. There is no voter fraud. They are full of it.


You make me think your one of those demos, and might i add, why are you like that, stop it your less likable then Trump himself.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The popular vote is as relevant as the vote in Canada.   lrn2civics.


sorry I corrected your post
"The Minority votes is as relevant as the vote in Canada.   lrn2civics"


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

Lol are they ever gonna give up this bullshit 

https://www.wxyz.com/news/local-new...er-fraud-in-michigan-dont-hold-up-to-scrutiny


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Seriously, there is some kind of voter fraud going on, but the problem is that thank god for me and democrats, the amount is only about 1000 votes at best in each state, which is as best and we could only add around 500 at average. There is no way biden will not win the popular vote at least, and a very good chance that he will win the college. Which is good. AND the fraud is carried out by others, not demos, just trolls who want to fuck GOP, which we will gladly let.
> 
> TLDR: There is some kind of voting fraud, but that always happens every time, and the amount is so small that literally biden will still win the popular vote and probably the college.


Here's an example of a "uninformed voter".  Trust me, politics should not be the main thing that your life revolves around, but please look for more information from sources other than the mainstream media/



Darth Meteos said:


> you must live in a pretty robust bubble to think those terms are anything less than cringe, mate


What is with you calling me "mate"?  I am not your mate, Pal.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> https://www.wxyz.com/news/local-new...er-fraud-in-michigan-dont-hold-up-to-scrutiny


 HEY thats fake news.. its not from Twitter or a blog!


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The popular vote is as relevant as the vote in Canada.   lrn2civics.


Funny thing is that I also heard that Canadians also voted in the Philly and Michigan elections.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Here's an example of a "uninformed voter".  Trust me, politics should not be the main thing that your life revolves around, but please look for more information from sources other than the mainstream media/
> 
> 
> What is with you calling me "mate"?  I am not your mate, Pal.


Your a example of a idiot republican, who basically is illiterate and does not really care about anything but having butt sex with trump.

Seriously, a article came out how senior citizens were bullied into choosing biden. My original point comes in here, as only 20 votes were like this. Which gives evidence to my original claim ya dumbass.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Funny thing is that I also heard that Canadians also voted in the Philly and Michigan elections.



Got a source for that one, champ?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Ya read my entire comment? I said there might be, but its so small and also is not from demos. Please read.


I read. I repeat: No voter fraud will have gotten past. This is one of the most scrutinized elections in American history due to the repeated allusions to performing a post-election coup the president made before November 4.



Driving_duck said:


> You make me think your one of those demos, and might i add, why are you like that, stop it your less likable then Trump himself.


I'm assuming a Demo is a Democrat, which I'm not. You mustn't be very nuanced if you think 'disagrees with me' = 'bad'


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Your a example of a idiot republican, who basically is illiterate and does not really care about anything but having butt sex with trump.


Only if he'd have me, I would let him.  Better than having him force his fingers up inside me against my will.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> HEY thats fake news.. its not from Twitter or a blog!


Yep fuck trusted news outlets


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Here's an example of a "uninformed voter".  Trust me, politics should not be the main thing that your life revolves around, but please look for more information from sources other than the mainstream media/
> 
> 
> What is with you calling me "mate"?  I am not your mate, Pal.


 YES @morvoran tell them about the fraud... Please post the link for the Official county registered votes number and the numbers of people who votes...that will show them... wait you mean to tell me you don't have them? weird?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Here's an example of a "uninformed voter".  Trust me, politics should not be the main thing that your life revolves around, but please look for more information from sources other than the mainstream media/
> 
> 
> What is with you calling me "mate"?  I am not your mate, Pal.




I am just really proud of all the veterans that turned out for Biden, especially the ones from the civil war.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Got a source for that one, champ?


https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ryan-reynolds-vote-first-time-america-presidential-election


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am just really proud of all the veterans that turned out for Biden, especially the ones from the civil war.


yea lol jokes on BIDEN..most of the south Cenfed. voted for TRUMP!!! GOOD ONE JUMBO


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Got a source for that one, champ?


I need to use "champ," more, it's so effective. So condescending, I love it.



morvoran said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ryan-reynolds-vote-first-time-america-presidential-election


_YA BOI USED FOX NEWS AS A SOURCE_


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> No, I understand the thought process just fine. Your side puts labels on things that are to be automatically discarded and not thought about.



Like what? 

While we are at it, let's think about health care for all & other socialist policies. Careful you don't automatically discard them.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I read. I repeat: No voter fraud will have gotten past. This is one of the most scrutinized elections in American history due to the repeated allusions to performing a post-election coup the president made before November 4.
> 
> 
> I'm assuming a Demo is a Democrat, which I'm not. You mustn't be very nuanced if you think 'disagrees with me' = 'bad'


There has been, but it docent really matter. Thats the point. Voter fraud happens every election and this is no different. But its soo small that literally its like it dosent exist. I base my believes around thing like evidence. Not news stations.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ryan-reynolds-vote-first-time-america-presidential-election



Ah so you're just being intentionally misleading with your statements, I get it. So yes, a Canadian voted. A Canadian that is a US citizen.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am just really proud of all the veterans that turned out for Biden, especially the ones from the civil war.





Here's a pic of Biden rallying his voters pre-election.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ryan-reynolds-vote-first-time-america-presidential-election


yes the fact that he got duel citizenship does not matter ..


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Ah so you're just being intentionally misleading with your statements, I get it. So yes, a Canadian voted. A Canadian that is a US citizen.


You didn't specify what type of Canadian.  I said I only heard that which was during the Trump legal team's press conference this morning. 
If I was going to misinform you (intentionally or not), you would know.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> View attachment 234480
> 
> Here's a pic of Biden rallying his voters pre-election.


still waiting for the list of Counties with more vote then votes.... TICK TOCK


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> View attachment 234480
> 
> Here's a pic of Biden rallying his voters pre-election.


he's visiting the grave of a fallen veteran
show some respect


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ryan-reynolds-vote-first-time-america-presidential-election


Haha fuck me are you serious he has duel citizenship he is legally allowed to vote.

As shown below 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/british-columbia/2020/11/2/1_5172059.html


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You didn't specify what type of Canadian.  I said I only heard that which was during the Trump legal team's press conference this morning.


yes  just like when we say "illegal" votes you didn't specify what Minorities


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I need to use "champ," more, it's so effective. So condescending, I love it.
> 
> 
> _YA BOI USED FOX NEWS AS A SOURCE_



As long as you stop calling me "mate".  It sounds like you want to propagate with me.  What's wrong with using Fox News?  Didn't you hear that are the new CNN?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You didn't specify what type of Canadian.  I said I only heard that which was during the Trump legal team's press conference this morning.
> If I was going to misinform you (intentionally or not), you would know.



So instead you decide to provide information that's wholly irrelevant to the line of discussion that's currently on the table? That's not surprising.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> he's visiting the grave of a fallen veteran
> show some respect



It's called voter outreach.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> docent dosent believes


Read a dictionary, mate, you're killin' me.



Driving_duck said:


> I base my beliefs around things like evidence, not news stations.


Good to hear. We'll make good allies in the cause, if so.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

When is there going to be blood?


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes  just like when we say "illegal" votes you didn't specify what Minorities


Just the ones that weren't dead, legal US citizens, counted multiple times, or faked.


Sorry folks if I don't respond to you.  Just like Trump at a 2020 debate, I'm debating more than one person here.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

JK


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> As long as you stop calling me "mate".  It sounds like you want to propagate with me.  What's wrong with using Fox News?  Didn't you hear that are the new CNN?


Fox News is as much a credible source as CNN. That is to say- Not at all.

I won't stop calling you mate, it seems to bother you and I get really happy imagining you being annoyed. Also I was raised in Australia, so mate is a thing we say when people are particularly troublesome or in need of correction. The nuance is probably lost on you.



SG854 said:


> When is there going to be blood?


When Saw II hits theatres on Halloween 2005!


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> When is there going to be blood?


Judging from having a lot of republicans and demos, arguing about fake voting fraud, probably in a minute.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvo:rofl2:ran said:


> As long as you stop calling me "mate".  It sounds like you want to propagate with me.



If I were you I wouldn't visit Australia or Scotland where mate is used all the time. OK mate


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

Wait we can use the mate to get rid of a republican from this.

Hey mate







Im seriously losing brain cells from this.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> If I were you I wouldn't visit Australia or Scotland where mate is used all the time. OK mate


G'day mate, how's it goin'? Ohhhh you're talking about that bloody galah down at Central? Yeah, she's fuckin' manged, aye?


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> So instead you decide to provide information that's wholly irrelevant to the line of discussion that's currently on the table? That's not surprising.


Um, have you not been reading this entire thread???  I guess that would be a moderator's job, huh?  Also, he has duel citizenship which makes him a canadian voting in our election which fulfilled your argument for proof, Champ.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Hey mate


Americans can't say mate right. In my accent it sounds friendly, or even intimidating. Americans sound like they're larping. Or Canadian.



morvoran said:


> Um, have you not been reading this entire thread???  I guess that would be a moderator's job, huh?  Also, he has duel citizenship which makes him a canadian voting in our election which fulfilled your argument for proof, Champ.


ooh, @Sicklyboy you can tell he's going for the jugular because he capitalized Champ for emphasis
a crippling blow


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Funny thing is that I also heard that Canadians also voted in the Philly and Michigan elections.



Can you explain what is funny about it?



morvoran said:


> You didn't specify what type of Canadian.  I said I only heard that which was during the Trump legal team's press conference this morning.



From the conversation it's safe to assume a Canadian that has no right to vote in the US but actually did vote.
If you don't have any evidence then how do we know it's not a baseless accusation?



morvoran said:


> If I was going to misinform you (intentionally or not), you would know.



Are you saying that we'd see through your lies, so you must be telling the truth?[/QUOTE]



morvoran said:


> Um, have you not been reading this entire thread???  I guess that would be a moderator's job, huh?  Also, he has duel citizenship which makes him a canadian voting in our election which fulfilled your argument for proof, Champ.



Was it your intention to make us think that Canadians were illegally voting when the only Canadian that you know had voted is also a US citizen? Because you seem to be playing fast and loose.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> If I were you I wouldn't visit Australia or Scotland where mate is used all the time. OK mate


Are you hitting on me?  Just don't pull a Biden and shove your fingers up inside me without asking first.  Also, @Darth Meteos has a US flag which means he's using mate in a term that doesn't mean the same thing here.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Are you hitting on me?  Just don't pull a Biden and shove your fingers up inside me without asking first.  Also, @Darth Meteos has a US flag which means he's using mate in a term that doesn't mean the same thing here.


i admit, it is courageous to continually play into it when being bullied
you have my respect, mate


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> If I were you I wouldn't visit Australia or Scotland where mate is used all the time. OK mate


He's now attacking irrelevant things to the conversation


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Um, have you not been reading this entire thread??? I guess that would be a moderator's job, huh?



You realize we don't get paid for what we do here, right? I have a job, hobby, chores, and a life to live. No, I don't read the entire thread.



morvoran said:


> Also, he has duel citizenship which makes him a canadian voting in our election which fulfilled your argument for proof, Champ.



But let me spell it out for you in a way you can understand.

Morvoran: "FRAUD, FRAUD, FAKE VOTES"
Morvoran: "I heard Canadians voted in the election"
Sicklyboy: "Provide a source"
M: "An actor with dual citizenship voted in the election"
S: "Irrelevant"
M: "Well other Canadians were mentioned in the Trump briefing today"

So WHY would you not bring up the Trump briefing then, if that's what you were talking about in the first place?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

Yeah, that happens.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> i admit, it is courageous to continually play into it when being bullied
> you have my respect, mate


OK, CHAMP.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

The other side keep going on about freedom of speech and they can say whatever they want ect ect.

Then they start bitching about being called mate.

Can't decide if thats ironic or moronic


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> OK, CHAMP.


Thats the best you can do? You getting fucking bullied and that "OK champ" sounds stupid.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> You realize we don't get paid for what we do here, right? I have a job, hobby, chores, and a life to live. No, I don't read the entire thread.


  You know, my local firefighters said the same thing when my neighbors house burnt down.  They were like, "even though we like firefighting and want to keep this town safe, we don't get paid to do it, so why waste our time putting out all fires."

Here, you want more proof? It's hard to find sources on site like CNN and MSDNC when they hide this kind of information.

https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

@morvoran All my mates say mate is that a problem mate? They also mate with my mates. Deal with it mate. Arrrghhhh matey.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You know, my local firefighters said the same thing when my neighbors house burnt down.  They were like, "even though we like firefighting and want to keep this town safe, we don't get paid to do it, so why waste our time putting out all fires."



Nice strawman fallacy. What's next?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> You realize we don't get paid for what we do here, right? I have a job, hobby, chores, and a life to live. No, I don't read the entire thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


don't forget the fact, he still has not provided the Official voter registration count to proof that more votes then people..


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> @morvoran All my mates say mate is that a problem mate? They also mate with my mates. Deal with it mate. Arrrghhhh matey.


That was a good one mate


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Nice strawman fallacy. What's next?


 You may not have seen this.  I edited my previous post.
https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The other side keep going on about freedom of speech and they can say whatever they want etc etc. Then they start bitching about being called mate.


To be fair, he is within his right to ignore me, this isn't my space and I'm not the government. I'm not covered by the first amendment on here. That being said, they _are_ the party that made the term 'snowflake' enter the cultural consciousness, so as far as I'm concerned, he can cry and die mad about it. 



SG854 said:


> @morvoran All my mates say mate is that a problem mate? They also mate with my mates. Deal with it mate. Arrrghhhh matey.


EVEN THE REPUBLICANS
THEY SMELL THIS GUY'S BLOOD IN THE WATER AND GO FOR THE THROAT
*BASED*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You may not have seen this.  I edited my previous post.
> https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/


yes now provide those libs proof of more votes them voters... otherwise people are not going to believed any of our made up stories ... like Hugo Chavez


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> @morvoran All my mates say mate is that a problem mate? They also mate with my mates. Deal with it mate. Arrrghhhh matey.


Hey, whatever your "mates" and you do behind closed doors is none of my business.  If you happen to starting mating with your mates in public, then I mate have a problem with it, Pal.


----------



## KimKong (Nov 19, 2020)

Congratulations on a new President, my American brothers and sisters!
Let's hope these next four years will be moving towards a brighter future!


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You may not have seen this.  I edited my previous post.
> https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/



That's a forum post. Where's the news articles? Court cases? Arrest records?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You may not have seen this.  I edited my previous post.
> https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/


this guy comes back with a fishing forum
i am ready


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You may not have seen this.  I edited my previous post.
> https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/


Thats one fucking vote. Try better. If that's even real.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

theBLUEBIRD said:


> Congratulations on a new President, my American brothers and sisters!
> Let's hope these next four years will be moving towards a brighter future!


Oh, shit, did they finally finish all the recounts while I was wasting my time in this mix of "uninformed voters" and found Trump won???  I need to go see all the leftists crying in the streets.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You may not have seen this.  I edited my previous post.
> https://www.thebassbarn.com/threads/canadians-voting-in-us-elections.959727/


still waiting...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> That's a forum post. Where's the news articles? Court cases? Arrest records?


Rudy has them..... with the signed affidavits of Big foot


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Thats one fucking vote. Try better. If that's even real.


From the person who said that a little bit of fraud in an election is fine,  SMH.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

@morvoran provide a source for your Canadians voting claim that isn't a fishing forum post. I want court cases and arrest records.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, shit, did they finally finish all the recounts while I was wasting my time in this mix of "uninformed voters" and found Trump won???  I need to go see all the leftists crying in the streets.


Yeah, but I'm gonna want for trump to fight back until he finds out biden wins. Then we can see him cry and getting dragged out of the white house. That will be amazing to see.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> still waiting...


  I already gave proof of two canadians voting in the election.  I'm not going to go get a list of everyone.  Hell, most of them are probably dead or not using their Maiden names anymore.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, shit, did they finally finish all the recounts while I was wasting my time in this mix of "uninformed voters" and found Trump won???  I need to go see all the leftists crying in the streets.


i continue to be entertained by the fact this guy has animal farm in his signature and this is his attitude
trying to decide if i'm more entertained by that or that clip of the trump supporters dancing to _killing in the name_


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> @morvoran provide a source for your Canadians voting claim that isn't a fishing forum post. I want court cases and arrest records.


 You want the arrest records of every single dead person that registered to vote and voted in the election while I'm at it?  I might find some on this sewing forum that I frequent.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I already gave proof of two canadians voting in the election.  I'm not going to go get a list of everyone.  Hell, most of them are probably dead or not using their Maiden names anymore.



You provided no proof. You provided proof of a US citizen with Canadian dual-citizenship voting, and you provided a post from a fishing forum. Provide proof in for form of court cases and arrest records.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> @morvoran provide a source for your Canadians voting claim that isn't a fishing forum post. I want court cases and arrest records.


Yes especially as if you read through all the posts in that forum it turns out she had duel citizenship and an American passport and was a legal overseas voter.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Hey, whatever your "mates" and you do behind closed doors is none of my business.  If you happen to starting mating with your mates in public, then I mate have a problem with it, Pal.


They don't call us *Homo* Sapiens for nothing. Wink Wink


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I already gave proof of two canadians voting in the election.  I'm not going to go get a list of everyone.  Hell, most of them are probably dead or not using their Maiden names anymore.


morvoran finds two canadians who voted
one of them is a citizen and the other is a random guy on a forum who could say anything
morvoran sits back in his chair, well satisfied
"Well, libtards... I've done my bit."


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

Im losing brain cells at this moment. Morvoran your jokes are really becomeing better.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> If you happen to starting mating with your mates in public, then I mate have a problem with it, Pal.



How totalitarian.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I already gave proof of two canadians voting in the election.  I'm not going to go get a list of everyone.  Hell, most of them are probably dead or not using their Maiden names anymore.


oh im sorry you did not understand. I was referring to you providing official proof of the number of votes compared to Voter.. because we are claiming that there was " over 300% voter turn out" and I don't want US to look like a FOOL that cant produce facts... and just repost of Conspiracy theories


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You want the arrest records of every single dead person that registered to vote and voted in the election while I'm at it?  I might find some on this sewing forum that I frequent.



If that tickles your taint, then sure, but what I want you to do is back up your claims and stop dancing around the question. Court cases and arrest records of Canadians illegitimately voting in the 2020 US general election.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> How totalitarian.


yeah what about *FREEDOM*


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> If that tickles your taint, then sure, but what I want you to do is back up your claims and stop dancing around the question. Court cases and arrest records of Canadians illegitimately voting in the 2020 US general election.


Thats not a dance, its a mating call. He trying to attract Trumpers


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Thats not a dance, its a mating call. He trying to attract Trumpers


Welp if he's trying to attract trumpers we will just scare him away, we don't want this to become even more of a shitshow.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Thats not a dance, its a mating call. He trying to attract Trumpers


noo... he is not  logging in to his burner GBatemp Account to make it look like their more people


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> noo... he is not  logging in to his burner GBatemp Account to make it look like their more people


I wouldn't put it past him to do it.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 19, 2020)

Uh oh the lefties are all worked up now that you suggested people shouldn't be allowed to have public street orgies.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I suggest trying to bring liberals to the left. We need a strong socialist faction to move the Democratic Party toward the policies that people support. Nobody is happy Biden won, they're happy because _Trump lost._


You didnt get the votes.

Lets say you get the labor secretary, and a high office representative on climate change, and the health secretary, and the education one and ---- and then you suffer through four years of inaction, because NO ONE is interested in your plans. including the voters.

(Short reality check, this is agism, voters are old - old people vote conservative, or vote Trump out, and then a conservative senator in.)

Reality check - winning in a 'lame duck' fashion is the worst thing that could happen to progressives. Only people still interested in continuing this game seem to bee career chasers.

Actually, republicans are in the offensive now. What they do next decides everything.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh im sorry you did not understand. I was referring to you providing official proof of the number of votes compared to Voter.. because we are claiming that there was " over 300% voter turn out" and I don't want US to look like a FOOL that cant produce facts... and just repost of Conspiracy theories


https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

Hey @morvoran, shit or get off the pot. Act like an adult and back up your claims. Court cases and arrest records that show that Canadians are illegitimately voting in the 2020 US general election.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Uh oh the lefties are all worked up now that you suggested people shouldn't be allowed to have public street orgies.


whoa.. where are this public street Orgies and why was I not informed...


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Uh oh the lefties are all worked up now that you suggested people shouldn't be allowed to have public street orgies.











notimp said:


> because NO ONE is interested in your plans. including the voters.


Oof, big cringe. I didn't have you down as someone who couldn't read a poll, my mistake.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/


...but the website does not show no numbers listed at all just percentage. ( not given mentioning theres no source)... I mean I can say 100% of signed affidavits are useless in court..but I need actual numbers to show not random percentage ..or is that too hard for us?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/



Article is from 2015. Cope more and try harder.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/


That was 5 years ago lol


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/


Registered voter count errors can be because of numerous factors. They aren't _votes_, which would be the election fraud you're purporting. If anything, this means we should put more regulation on the voter roll people so that this doesn't happen.

EDIT: lol the article is from 2015 wtf


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Hey @morvoran, shit or get off the pot. Act like an adult and back up your claims. Court cases and arrest records that show that Canadians are illegitimately voting in the 2020 US general election.


You should know that the big tech, ie Google... uses algorithms to hide search results to make finding results against the left more difficult.  If you want my source, then here:



I don't have a time stamp for when Guiliani said it, but it was near the end.

Also, with all the BS that is posted on these forums here without evidence to back them up, most of the lefties would not be able to meet your requests to "shit or get off the pot. Act like an adult and back up your claims".


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/


Local politics shenanigans. This is where the actual 'fraudulant' voting schemes (forging and forcing people to vote a certain way) are actually employed.

In the hinterlands, where noone even checks and majorities arent expected to change unless half of the town died out.

Also could have been a mismatch in registration records because of - I dont know.

Now find me 150.000 votes that way.

edit: Its even more mundane than that:
The way this is phrased:


> A nonprofit legal organization devoted to fighting election
> fraud has released a report showing that 141 counties across the nation have
> more registered voters than people of voting age, and Michigan has more than any other
> state — 24 counties with mismanaged voter registration rolls.


Means, that they could have dead people on the voting records.

Same issue we've discussed in here 20 times already. And you still try to bring it with new coating.

How do dead people get IDs to vote on election day?

How do 150.000 dead people get 150.000 voter IDs to vote on election day (or have a registered home address, where 150.000 people would know to request a mail in ballot, that then doesnt get picked up by the new owner of the house/tenant?)

You try the same old trick personally for the tenth time.

What the hell do you want?

A personal brain service. That tells you hey - you are trying to fuck over peoples logic circuites again?

When do you stop?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You should know that the big tech, ie Google... uses algorithms to hide search results to make finding results against the left more difficult.  If you want my source, then here:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a time stamp for when Guiliani said it, but it was near the end.


HAHAHAHA that was the same event they are claiming Dominion is a Cuban and Venezuelan operation..headed by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.... reminder Hugo Chavez denied in 2013.. this MotherFer been died for almost 8 years from a broke destroyed nation.. but he was able to come back to life and create a million dollar company that has security clearance from multiple countries. lolol


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.politicscentral.org/report-michigan-has-24-counties-with-more-voters-than-people/


Hey dude this is the 2020 election not the 2015 election.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You should know that the big tech, ie Google... uses algorithms to hide search results to make finding results against the left more difficult.  If you want my source, then here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Source: RUDY GIULIANI


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You should know that the big tech, ie Google... uses algorithms to hide search results to make finding results against the left more difficult.  If you want my source, then here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Google does that with everything, what's special about that, mate?


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Hey dude this is the 2020 election not the 2015 election.


Oh, what???  You mean there was voter fraud back then, too?  Oh no, you mean Killary Klinton may not have won the popular vote?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, what???  You mean there was voter fraud back then, too?  Oh no, you mean Killary Klinton may not have won the popular vote?


HE'S ATTACKING 2016 NOW
CAN I GET A COPE IN THE CHAT


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You should know that the big tech, ie Google... uses algorithms to hide search results to make finding results against the left more difficult.  If you want my source, then here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great, so we've got some verbal diarrhea that came out of Giuliani's mouth. He also said today that My Cousin Vinny is his favorite law movie because the character is from Brooklyn. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ce-during-bizarre-press-conference-2020-11-19

If this is an actual thing that happened, if we're trusting Trump's lawyer, Giuliani, where is the lawsuit? Where are the arrest records?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You should know that the big tech, ie Google... uses algorithms to hide search results to make finding results against the left more difficult.  If you want my source, then here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





morvoran said:


> Oh, what???  You mean there was voter fraud back then, too?  Oh no, you mean Killary Klinton may not have won the popular vote?


wait are you telling me there was Voter Fraud in 2015 ... why did the President Trump not do any thing about it?.. especially when he had control of the HOUSE and the Senate.. Weird almost like we just made it up to benefit us?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, what???  You mean there was voter fraud back then, too?  Oh no, you mean Killary Klinton may not have won the popular vote?


OH FUCK I THOUGHT HE WAS TOO DUMB TO REMEMBER 2016, THERE EVOLVING! Just backwards.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran next source is going to be from 1861 claiming Republicans are not racist.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

djpannda said:


> HAHAHAHA that was the same event they are claiming Dominion is a Cuban and Venezuelan operation..headed by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.... reminder Hugo Chavez denied in 2013.. this MotherFer been died for almost 8 years from a broke destroyed nation.. but he was able to come back to life and create a million dollar company that has security clearance from multiple countries. lolol


  Oh, because a president bought into a fraudulent voting system before he died which just so happened to have a witness coming forward to claim they heard conversations of fraud.  That system is no longer fraudulent because 8 years have passed?  Um, no.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Great, so we've got some verbal diarrhea that came out of Giuliani's mouth. He also said today that My Cousin Vinny is his favorite law movie because the character is from Brooklyn. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ce-during-bizarre-press-conference-2020-11-19
> 
> If this is an actual thing that happened, if we're trusting Trump's lawyer, Giuliani, where is the lawsuit? Where are the arrest records?


I love how Rudy used the "my Cousin Vinny" respond... that can be used against his own affidavits lol

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Oh, because a president bought into a fraudulent voting system before he died which just so happened to have a witness coming forward to claim they heard conversations of fraud.  That system is no longer fraudulent because 8 years have passed?  Um, no.


and hitler implanted secret agents to activate on 2016....


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> morvoran next source is going to be from 1861 claiming Republicans are not racist.


You mean the party of Lincoln? The ones who freed the slaves?  Yes, I can source that they weren't racist.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You mean the party of Lincoln? The ones who freed the slaves?  Yes, I can source that they weren't racist.


YES me and @morvoran are embarrassed that Lincoln did that!


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Great, so we've got some verbal diarrhea that came out of Giuliani's mouth. He also said today that My Cousin Vinny is his favorite law movie because the character is from Brooklyn. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ce-during-bizarre-press-conference-2020-11-19
> 
> If this is an actual thing that happened, if we're trusting Trump's lawyer, Giuliani, where is the lawsuit? Where are the arrest records?


Oh, ok, so because it's not a source you "like" then it can not be trusted?  I got it.  Unfortunately, most of the sources you "like" are the reason we are in this mess right now.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> YES me and @morvoran are embarrassed that Lincoln did that!


You have proof to back that up?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, ok, so because it's not a source you "like" then it can not be trusted?  I got it.  Unfortunately, most of the sources you "like" are the reason we are in this mess right now.



If it was a serious issue, you'd think that Giuliani, a LAWYER, would file a LAWSUIT about the issue. Don't you think?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, ok, so because it's not a source you "like" then it can not be trusted?  I got it.  Unfortunately, most of the sources you "like" are the reason we are in this mess right now.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Fucking ironic your saying that when your getting your information FROM CNN AND FOX NEWS!


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, ok, so because it's not a source you "like" then it can not be trusted?  I got it.  Unfortunately, most of the sources you "like" are the reason we are in this mess right now.


....hm I don't think you can use the lawyer for ourside "Rudy" who has not provided real proof other then signed affidavits of big foot as a source.. when trying to prove "Rudy" himself....


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Uh oh the lefties are all worked up now that you suggested people shouldn't be allowed to have public street orgies.



It's the hypocrisy of constantly whinging how democrats try to stop you doing things and republicans are for freedom. But it seems it is way more arbitrary than that, you just want to be allowed to do the dumb things you want and prevent others doing things that you don't want them to do..



morvoran said:


> Oh, because a president bought into a fraudulent voting system before he died which just so happened to have a witness coming forward to claim they heard conversations of fraud.  That system is no longer fraudulent because 8 years have passed?  Um, no.



Is the witness credible?


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, because a president bought into a fraudulent voting system before he died which just so happened to have a witness coming forward to claim they heard conversations of fraud.  That system is no longer fraudulent because 8 years have passed?  Um, no.


Your story is messed up dude.

Its not "fraudulent or clean" voting system?

Its structural fraud possible on the scale you'd need for four states to flipp by several of thousands of votes.

And even more to the point, do the 'fraudulent cases suggested' even theoretically scale to the point, where they would be in anyones mind - to act criminally on them.

The potential simply isnt there - unless you show us how. You dont invest what 150.000*5000 USD in hush and motivation money, for people to literally risk jailtime, to sign up a dead relative, and then forge an ID. And even if you would - how on earth to you expect this to go unnoticed. One guys wive has to cheat, and tell the wrong guy and your entire scheme is blown wide open. or even better - the next year voter difference doubles to 300.000 votes and your entire scheme is null and void, from one year to the next.

Boy, you must be as dumb as the police is telling people that criminals are.

And all you bring are 'here we have 15 personal letters of people who saw something", and "voting lists are not being kept up to date".

Sure. None of that explains, how this could enable structural fraud.

You know this. You are in broken record mode by now.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> If it was a serious issue, you'd think that Giuliani, a LAWYER, would file a LAWSUIT about the issue. Don't you think?


How do you know that he won't?  We don't know what evidence he has.  You don't release all your evidence before a court case.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> How do you know that he won't?  We don't know what evidence he has.  You don't release all your evidence before a court case.


Look his evidence is gonna be, "trump dick is hard" and that's it.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> How do you know that he won't?  We don't know what evidence he has.  You don't release all your evidence before a court case.


yes you don't know TOrrowing RUDy might go to time square street corner and release all those big foot proof..


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> How do you know that he won't?  We don't know what evidence he has.  You don't release all your evidence before a court case.



Jesus christ of latter day saints. You don't release your evidence before your court case at all. What's the point of going in public "Hey, we have evidence that these people did this, this, and this. Sure would be a bad thing if they fled the country!"

Does that make any fucking sense?


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, ok, so because it's not a source you "like" then it can not be trusted?



Is that the rules now? Trump says that democrat run elections are fraudulent and you all agree saying that you can't trust democrats because you don't like them.

We do the same back and you throw a tantrum.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> Is the witness credible?


Only time will tell if the witness is credible.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> Jesus christ of latter day saints. You don't release your evidence before your court case at all. What's the point of going in public "Hey, we have evidence that these people did this, this, and this. Sure would be a bad thing if they fled the country!"
> 
> Does that make any fucking sense?


Oh, so you admit I'm right.  I knew there was still hope for you.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only time will tell if the witness is credible.


Which means that you think never.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, so you admit I'm right. I knew there was still hope for you.



The US education system has failed you if your reading comprehension is that poor.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only time will tell if the witness is credible.


I for one already provided my signed Affidavit of BIG FOOT, and if the other people that provided Affidavit are just a Creditable tas me ... Im sure the Judge won't laugh us out of a Court ROOM


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> Is that the rules now? Trump says that democrat run elections are fraudulent and you all agree saying that you can't trust democrats because you don't like them.
> 
> We do the same back and you throw a tantrum.


WTF are you on about?


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only time will tell if the witness is credible.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


There isn't for you, especially because your tag name is TRUMPICAN!


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> The US education system has failed you if your reading comprehension is that poor.


It failed me just like it failed all the demonrats that think higher taxes, identity politics, and killing unborn babies are fine while voting in a candidate with dementia that has no interest in their "issues".  Biden is only going to set up his family for the rest of their lives then let Leg's up Harris take over.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> How do you know that he won't?  We don't know what evidence he has.  You don't release all your evidence before a court case.


Michigan has 99% of the votes counted?

You know - the same reasoning for why Giuliany knew, that Trump had won in a state that wasnt called, when 80% of the vote was counted?

Yeah - add 19 more percentage points to that - do a statistical analysis on potential margin of error, and you know the winner.

Of course not - if you know of any substantial fraud, that no one has any evidence for.

Statistical evidence counts.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> It failed me just like it failed all the demonrats that think higher taxes, identity politics, and killing unborn babies are fine while voting in a candidate with dementia that has no interest in their "issues".  Biden is only going to set up his family for the rest of their lives then let Leg's up Harris take over.


Nah, your just insane, who votes to sent him into a mental feild.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only time will tell if the witness is credible.



Time has nothing to do with it, what evidence do they have. What can they prove.

There is a huge number of witnesses coming forward and signing affidavit who are provably lying (and this is Rudy sifting them out).


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> It failed me just like it failed all the demonrats that think higher taxes, identity politics, and killing unborn babies are fine while voting in a candidate with dementia that has no interest in their "issues".  Biden is only going to set up his family for the rest of their lives then let Leg's up Harris take over.



Nice dancing around the question. I still don't see any evidence that Canadians illegitimately voted in the 2020 US general election. Not even so much as a court case. You're arguing in bad faith, which should come as a surprise to absolutely nobody in this forum.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 19, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> HE'S ATTACKING 2016 NOW
> CAN I GET A COPE IN THE CHAT


Cope

Also 
Today I learned I should get the popcorn if I see sickly or your name. I forgot to get in time.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You mean the party of Lincoln? The ones who freed the slaves?  Yes, I can source that they weren't racist.


Whoosh, you miss the joke that you link old ass articles thats not relevant today.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You mean the party of Lincoln? The ones who freed the slaves?  Yes, I can source that they weren't racist.


The National Union Party freed the slaves it was not the Republicans. Slavery was abolished in 1865. From 1864 to 1865 Abe was part of the National Union Party which was made up of people who had previously been Republicans and Democrats. In fact Abes vice president Andrew Johnston was previously a Democrat.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> Time has nothing to do with it, what evidence do they have. What can they prove.
> 
> There is a huge number of witnesses coming forward and signing affidavit who are provably lying (and this is Rudy sifting them out).


  Yeah, because people everyday are signing false affidavits that could ruin their lives if the left finds them and get them throw in federal "pound you in the Ass" prison for up to 18 years just for the giggles.



Sicklyboy said:


> Nice dancing around the question. I still don't see any evidence that Canadians illegitimately voted in the 2020 US general election. Not even so much as a court case. You're arguing in bad faith, which should come as a surprise to absolutely nobody in this forum.


  I don't know what to tell you.  I gave you two instances of canadians voting in the US election and my source that I originally heard it from.  Maybe later, we can get Guilani on here to provide the proof himself.  Other than that, maybe you can go look for it yourself if you want it so bad.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> What's the point of going in public "Hey, we have evidence that these people did this, this, and this.



What is the point in holding a press conference saying there was mass fraud?

The people you are suing need to be told about evidence before the case though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law)


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Whoosh, you miss the joke that you link old ass articles thats not relevant today.


No, it must have whooshed over your head that I said I could source that, too.  It's almost as if I was going along with your joke.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Only time will tell if the witness is credible.


Which whitness?

Agent provocateur channel The Hill looked into every one of the 24 fraud cases brought in front of a court by Trumps team. One was 'ok, there might be something there'. One.

All other ones were baseless accusations, demanding stuff like 'we wanted to stand a few feet closer, redo the vote' and blatent accusations.


I mean sure - we all can say, lets wait until the courts have called this - this is literally, why you dont pronounce a president in the week after the election, but a few months later -- but really - "the whitness?"

Whats your thought process on this - someone calling in 'I've seen it, it was rigged.' 'Sure sir, you've seen it - but are you credible.'

Hey, most of us are still at the stage of 'none of this is statistically viable'. And you are still countering with 'yes, but my wives cousin knows a guy - that'...

I mean, what do you want? An education in applied statistics, that tells you, with people knowing, that they cant sell their vote, no one is bonkers enough to bribe them to try to get a second one to sell, from their dead grandma, and go to jail over it. On the scale of 150.000 coordinated cases in Georgia.

And there isnt anything more that surfaced by now. For all the accusations that are out there - this is simply not enough.

Especially not, because Trump announced a year ago what his plan on 'challenging the election' was. You think that thats just coinsidence? I mean, you could make the argument that every administration tries to do so, in case of a loss - but none, none more stupidly than this one.

Holding up literal letters from people that wrote in that have seen something by the dozen on Fox news.

Next time ask them how many of them have seen UFOs, update us how many letters you got there.

At least two of the major law offices preparing the legal claimes have left those cases, Giuliani is the new election fraud head of Trumps legal team... I mean what the...

"How many TV stations anounced the winner?" "All of them." "All of them, ha ha, all of them, haha, we''ll - dont you see, two weeks ago they all said it wouldnt even be close! Ha!" Giuliani?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Other than that, maybe you can go look for it yourself if you want it so bad.



Doesn't work like that, champ. YOU make the claims, YOU back it up. Shit or get off the pot, because it looks like your claims are even more full of hot air than you are.

You don't put your claims on public display before a lawsuit is filed. Giving the defendant even more of an opportunity to build their defense, form an alibi, or in this case, likely flee the country, is pants on head nonsensical. If Giuliani has shit to say, I want to see the court case. He's a lawyer and he can file a lawsuit. Otherwise, he's full of shit and you're full of shit too.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The National Union Party freed the slaves it was not the Republicans. Slavery was abolished in 1865. From 1864 to 1865 Abe was part of the National Union Party which was made up of people who had previously been Republicans and Democrats. In fact Abes vice president Andrew Johnston was previously a Democrat.


http://factmyth.com/factoids/lincoln-was-a-republican/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> Doesn't work like that, champ. YOU make the claims, YOU back it up. Shit or get off the pot, because it looks like your claims are even more full of hot air than you are.
> 
> You don't put your claims on public display before a lawsuit is filed. Giving the defendant even more of an opportunity to build their defense, form an alibi, or in this case, likely flee the country, is pants on head nonsensical. If Giuliani has shit to say, I want to see the court case. He's a lawyer and he can file a lawsuit. Otherwise, he's full of shit and you're full of shit too.


OMG, have you not been reading anything I've been saying??  It's almost like you are writing prepared responses that just keep asking the same things even though I've already responded to you with what you asked.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> http://factmyth.com/factoids/lincoln-was-a-republican/



You are wrong again lol. 


https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/267598/


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> OMG, have you not been reading anything I've been saying?? It's almost like you are writing prepared responses that just keep asking the same things even though I've already responded to you with what you asked.



I've been reading everything you've been saying, and you've been regurgitating the same old shit or dancing around the question every single time. All you've provided is 1) an article about a US citizen voting, 2) a post from a fucking fishing forum, and 3) word of mouth during a press conference. You've yet to provide ANY proof or anything that even comes CLOSE to resembling proof or something that shows that the Trump campaign is taking these allegations seriously. If there's a serious claim here there is going to be a lawsuit. I want to see the lawsuit.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> You don't put your claims on public display before a lawsuit is filed. Giving the defendant even more of an opportunity to build their defense, form an alibi, or in this case, likely flee the country, is pants on head nonsensical. If Giuliani has shit to say, I want to see the court case. He's a lawyer and he can file a lawsuit. Otherwise, he's full of shit and you're full of shit too.



You don't make it public because of defamation and not prejudicing a jury.

But the defendant has to have all the evidence, otherwise they can't prepare a defense and without that they don't receive a fair trial and get let off.

I don't think any of these trials are before a jury and defamation isn't something Trump seems to care about, so I would kinda expect him to just release everything before a case if he had anything.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> You don't make it public because of defamation and not prejudicing a jury.
> 
> But the defendant has to have all the evidence, otherwise they can't prepare a defense and without that they don't receive a fair trial and get let off.



Right, but that happens once the defendant has been served. Not after someone says some shit on youtube.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> You are wrong again lol.


  I just posted a website.  How could I be wrong?



Sicklyboy said:


> I've been reading everything you've been saying, and you've been regurgitating the same old shit or dancing around the question every single time. All you've provided is 1) an article about a US citizen voting, *I gave you two examples of CANADIANS voting in the election* 2) a post from a fucking fishing forum *Doesn't matter if it was a porn site, facts are facts*, and 3) word of mouth during a press conference *Giuliani has more credit that most of the lame stream media propagandist pushing that Biden won this election. *. You've yet to provide ANY proof or anything that even comes CLOSE to resembling proof or something that shows that the Trump campaign is taking these allegations seriously *Again, Guiliani* *said it during a press briefing*. If there's a serious claim here there is going to be a lawsuit. I want to see the lawsuit. *Again, you have to wait for the trials to begin for the dem court employees to leak out all the information*


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 19, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I just posted a website.  How could I be wrong?


Actual election poster clearly says National Union Party.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 19, 2020)

Alright folks, I wish I could say this was fun.   Before I leave, I just want to say that Biden is not and will not be president of the US, but please, get your hopes up to the point that when you finally realize that Trump won, your sweet, sweet, oh so sweet tears will be so delicious and keep me going for the next 4 years until your side decides to steal the next election.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

*I gave you two examples of CANADIANS voting in the election
*
You gave an example of a US citizen voting in the election, and a post from a fishing forum.
*
Doesn't matter if it was a porn site, facts are facts
*
Hello FBI I have credible information that Morvoran of the gbatemp.net forums has committed massive amounts of voter fraud in the 2019 Bolivian election in order to attempt to install a dictator that will serve his personal interests. This is very real and very factual because I said it on the internet and I can't lie on the internet, no sirree not me.
*
Giuliani has more credit that most of the lame stream media propagandist pushing that Biden won this election*

So then let's see facts. Where's the lawsuit?

*Again, Guiliani said it during a press briefing
*
So then let's see facts. Where's the lawsuit?
*
Again, you have to wait for the trials to begin for the dem court employees to leak out all the information
*
So then where's the lawsuit?

@morvoran come on dude I didn't even have coffee yet by the time I started posting in this thread. At least try to show a LITTLE bit of backbone and make yourself look genuine.


Edit:



morvoran said:


> Alright folks, I wish I could say this was fun.   Before I leave, I just want to say that Biden is not and will not be president of the US, but please, get your hopes up to the point that when you finally realize that Trump won, your sweet, sweet, oh so sweet tears will be so delicious and keep me going for the next 4 years until your side decides to steal the next election.



Bookmarking this so I can quote it later.

Edit 2:

Also @morvoran I want to put this out into the open, to make sure that YOUR definition of "facts" is the same as the dictionary definition of "facts". We're talking about things that actually happened and can be proven. None of which you've been able to back up. You have not proven anything to be true aside from the fact that you're arguing in bad faith, your judgement is clouded by your undying love for Trump, and that you're full of hot air. None of the "sources" you've provided have proven anything to be true.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

If you give Trumpers the benefit of the doubt - and they really, really believe in what the administration is saying - it would be fair to 'wait on the courts position'.



> Recounting this 100-minute cascade of madness is more than I can bear. But the basic idea laid out by Trump’s lawyers is that they have come across vast evidence of systematic voter fraud in “Democrat” cities (though the claims go far beyond such jurisdictions) that they can’t present publicly now, but are demanding that courts address immediately after the campaign files a battery of lawsuits tomorrow. Again and again, Giuliani shrieked at the “censored” media for failing to cover “evidence” that he then said the campaign couldn’t disclose either because (a) the witnesses to the immense Biden conspiracy were in fear of their lives, or (b) it was being held for review by the courts. At several points, Trump legal adviser Jenna Ellis angrily told reporters that the case they were making at the presser was just an “overview” or an “opening statement,” with all the facts and figures they asked for not being appropriate at this stage of the proceedings.


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/giuliani-trump-legal-team-melt-down-in-insane-presser.html

Taking into account the 'quality' of evidence they have presented on TV so far though - its laughable. I try to prevent having to look up those 24 court cases myself, so I guess I also have to wait and see.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

Something else to put out there, just to show a tiiiiny bit from my perspective - *Fuck Biden too*, he's as much a piece of shit as the next guy and I am unbelievably disappointed in the Democrats that THIS is who ended up being their presidential nominee, but I'm not deluded to the point where I'm willing to make up excuses out of thin air as to how there must be an untold MASSIVE number of fraudulent votes that could swing the election in Trump's favor despite ZERO evidence that there has been anything malicious that happened at even a REMOTELY significant scale.


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Right, but that happens once the defendant has been served. Not after someone says some shit on youtube.



Rudy had a press conference in a landscaping parking lot where he paraded witnesses before they'd gone into court.
People posting on social media are probably just going for views/likes and I don't know what that would have to do with a court case.



Sicklyboy said:


> Bookmarking this so I can quote it later.



He'll never admit Biden winning anyway.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 19, 2020)

smf said:


> Rudy had a press conference in a landscaping parking lot where he paraded witnesses before they'd gone into court.



Well, I never said he was a _good_ lawyer. At least I certainly hope it didn't look like I was implying that.


----------



## notimp (Nov 19, 2020)

*



			‘This Is Not a Fraud Case’
		
Click to expand...

*


> Keep an eye on what President Trump’s lawyers say about supposed voter fraud in court, where lying under oath is a crime.


https://web.archive.org/web/2020111...8/us/politics/trump-giuliani-voter-fraud.html



> Since Election Day, the Trump campaign and its allies have filed more than 30 lawsuits that seek to stop the certification of results or have ballots thrown out.



Those over 30 (by now) cases, largely are not fraud cases.

Also - this:


> A sizable minority of Americans believe Mr. Trump’s claims. A new poll released on Wednesday by Monmouth University found that 44 percent of Americans think we do not have enough information about the vote count to know who won the election. Nearly one-third believe Mr. Biden won only because of voter fraud.



Yeah, tell people how voter fraud really works in the US why wouldnt you..  (This is me snarking - that this is never going to happen, people worked too hard to pull up the systems. Sadly, mostly republican strategists.

Dems afaik didnt bother to as much, because they had the growing electorate (racial minorities (soon not to be minorities anymore)), where it then turned out they had not.)


----------



## smf (Nov 19, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Well, I never said he was a _good_ lawyer. At least I certainly hope it didn't look like I was implying that.



Sure, but I kinda expect to see some evidence on fox news or real donalds twitter if it existed.

It's not like we've had four years of a president who follows convention.

"A new poll released on Wednesday by Monmouth University found that 44 percent of Americans think we do not have enough information about the vote count to know who won the election. Nearly one-third believe Mr. Biden won only because of voter fraud."

People believe dumb shit that isn't true all the time, how many people believe it doesn't stop it being dumb shit.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 20, 2020)

Poor rudy was sweating bullet


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 20, 2020)

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-us-news-elections-9343714a9376fcf46c344b95887414d0

And the trump failures continue, the hand recount of Georgia is in and Joe Biden still won.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 20, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Doesn't work like that, champ. YOU make the claims, YOU back it up. Shit or get off the pot, because it looks like your claims are even more full of hot air than you are.
> 
> You don't put your claims on public display before a lawsuit is filed. Giving the defendant even more of an opportunity to build their defense, form an alibi, or in this case, likely flee the country, is pants on head nonsensical. If Giuliani has shit to say, I want to see the court case. He's a lawyer and he can file a lawsuit. Otherwise, he's full of shit and you're full of shit too.



not really a lawyer after not paying his bar dues and being suspended. he committed perjury by declaring he was properly licensed and in good standing when he wasn't. yikes.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I just want to say that Biden is not and will not be president of the US, but please, get your hopes up to the point that when you finally realize that Trump won, your sweet, sweet, oh so sweet tears will be so delicious and keep me going for the next 4 years until your side decides to steal the next election.


Cope.
EDIT: wait i can't do one word responses...
Big cope.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Cope.
> EDIT: wait i can't do one word responses...
> Big cope.


I feel like it's you who needs to cope after all the blatant voter fraud.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 20, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I feel like it's you who needs to cope after all the blatant voter fraud.


Supra you soo silly .. please provide proof of your allegation .. other then BIG FOOT SIGNED AFFIDAVITS


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

> The Trump campaign on Sunday revised its highly touted suit to block certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s projected Pennsylvania victory, abandoning its most extravagant claims of widespread voter fraud. On Monday, four suits associated with a conservative group that also sought to block election certifications based on broad voter-fraud claims were dropped in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia.
> 
> The broad pullback follows several major courtroom defeats last week and highlights the difficulty lawyers are having in backing up Trump’s claims of a “rigged” election.
> 
> ...


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ylvania-suit-abandons-fraud-claims-state-says


This is defecating on democracy's grave.

Or just the usual tactic of the Trump family to deny everything and try to sue people out of existence.



> Keeping lawyers on the Pennsylvania case has also proven a challenge for the Trump campaign. Law firm Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLP, which had faced public criticism for its role in the case, withdrew from the representation on Friday. Linda Kerns, the lawyer who took over the case, sought to withdraw herself on Monday without giving a reason. Marc A. Scaringi will represent the Trump campaign, she said.
> 
> The retreat elicited scorn on Monday from lawyers for the Democratic National Committee, which called the revision “an implicit admission that they lack evidence to support their claims.”





> The Trump campaign said Monday it stands by its assertion that ballots were improperly counted without observers present. The revised complaint still mentions the 680,000 mail-in ballots but no longer ties them to a specific claims.





> The Trump campaign still has a federal suit seeking to block certification of the election results in Michigan based on broad fraud allegations. It has submitted dozens of affidavits from Republican poll watchers who say they witnessed suspicious activity during the vote count at a Detroit convention center. But a similar state court suit by allies of the Trump campaign was rejected on Friday by a judge who found the affidavits of poll watchers to be “not credible” and “rife with speculation and guesswork about sinister motives.” On Monday, the Michigan Court of Appeals denied a request to reverse that decision.





> Like the Trump campaign’s original Pennsylvania complaint, four lawsuits filed last week by plaintiffs associated with conservative group True the Vote claimed widespread fraud in Democratic-leaning counties. The suits in effect asked federal courts to block certification of election results in Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia and Pennsylvania unless all votes cast in those states’ largest cities and counties were invalidated.





> True the Vote had promised to put forth evidence including “expert reports based on data analysis” comparing mail-in ballots with state voter-registration databases, U.S. Postal Service records, Social Security records, criminal records, motor-vehicle records and other sources “by using sophisticated and groundbreaking programs to determine the extent of illegal voters and illegal votes.”
> 
> No reason was given for the suits’ abrupt withdrawal on Monday. Jim Bopp, a lawyer for True the Vote, declined to comment.



This is the actual aim:



> A fresh challenge to the Georgia vote count was filed Friday in federal court in Atlanta by conservative lawyer Lin Wood, who is seeking to block Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger from certifying the state’s results because he allegedly failed to follow signature-matching requirements. Georgia, which is currently conducting a manual ballot recount, has a Nov. 20 certification deadline.



Pervert the legal system. Prevent offical declaration of results. Then try to force state legislators to put up electoral college votes, not based on voting results - simply because of the induced delays and pressure from protests on the streets.

This is stealing an election, telling your supporters "but the other side has stolen it prior" - based on unfounded claims.

Also - here is a stupid facebook group name, you could use: "conservative group - True the Vote",maybe pick up the domain while you are at it also.

Much as Smart with digital devices means, app regimes for the most stupid of users, Truth with Trumpers starts to mean fraudulent in intent, without any base in reality.

Oh, and while you are at it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump


----------



## CORE (Nov 20, 2020)

*Trump For President.... Oh Wait He Is LOL!*


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 20, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I feel like it's you who needs to cope after all the blatant voter fraud.



Boy don't make me do this with you, too.

Nah, fuck it, I will.

Provide proof of this "blatant voter fraud".


----------



## Xzi (Nov 20, 2020)

CORE said:


>


LMAO look at this moron who thinks Trump gives a fuck about a single soul on Earth other than himself.


----------



## CORE (Nov 20, 2020)

@Xzi

*Trump "Antifa Scum" Clearly He Cares.
Joe Biden "Antifa is an Idea" Just Attack Women and Children and Elderly.*

*TRUMP
Border Wall To Help prevent Drugs and Human Trafficking and other Criminals. 
Unborn Children get a chance in an Orphanage instead of being Aborted.
Brought Back Jobs from Overseas.
Historic Peace Talks with North and South Korea.
Historic Peace Treaty in Middle East.
Jerusalem Declared Embassy Capitol Done what others said they would.
His Presidential Salary Donated to Vets and other things.
Beefed Up Neglected Military.
Bringing Troops Home.

LIST GOES ON.*


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 20, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I feel like it's you who needs to cope after all the blatant voter fraud.



Don't engage Sickly IMO, he's going to antagonize then look for a excuse to mod you if your point is valid.

Just join real Americans in prayer on this the 157th anniversary of Gettysburg address.

_"May God smite the evil slave driving Democrats as he did 157 years ago, may the lord Jesus christ remove the democratic yoke of oppression from all humanity, may God almighty keep Joe Bidens and his sons hands off the breasts of children, may our young boys not fear castration from their policies and may he swiftly return Cornpop, Joe and Kamala back to the lake of fire where they belong.  --Amen."_


----------



## Xzi (Nov 20, 2020)

CORE said:


> Clearly He Cares.


The only thing it's clear that he cares about is lining his pockets with taxpayer dollars and donations from his dumbass supporters.  That's the only reason he's even continuing to drag this out now, in fact: so he can send more desperate donation e-mails to rubes living in trailer parks.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Don't engage Sickly IMO, he's going to antagonize then look for a excuse to mod you if your point is valid.



Damn, you're that butthurt over... what exactly?


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Don't engage Sickly IMO, he's going to antagonize then look for a excuse to mod you if your point is valid.


Hey, so far he isnt Foxi4. Who has actually resorted to dishing out warning posts for 'not editing prior posts' with new developments on this current issue - stating "board rules would force him to do so". And I obviously had malicious intent, because I ignored a bot, whose 'please dont double post' message I've seen thousands of times over nine years - in this instance.

Preventing actual in time posting of news developments on the voter fraud case - that would also be visible to people.

Editing together about 20 of them in a long unseparated posting that mixed, reporting with reactions, with personal deliberations, with reactions on statements days after, ... Sleeping like a baby for a job well done in entirely perverting the efforts on reporting.

Trying to editorially change messaging - without having to admit to do doing so.

Hey at least with posting propaganda memes based in fear and horror motives, and dishing out unfounded claims, you have a reason to ban people.

You are producing a true horrorshow here.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 20, 2020)

He lost the recount, so can we say he lost the popular vote 3 times and the election twice?


----------



## CORE (Nov 20, 2020)

Biden as President is not a Bad thing after all it has helped Wake Up The People not just in USA.

But at the same time there is Great Opportunity to get the USA Economy Booming with some of these awesome Merchandise.

A Simple Search on the Net for Sniffing Joe gets you great Shirts and Sweaters and Mugs Car Bumper Stickers hell some of Camella Too Awesome I have to say I Smell What Joe is Sniffing "Americana"


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 20, 2020)

CORE said:


> Biden as President is not a Bad thing after all it has helped Wake Up The People not just in USA.
> 
> But at the same time there is Great Opportunity to get the USA Economy Booming with some of these awesome Merchandise.
> 
> A Simple Search on the Net for Sniffing Joe gets you great Shirts and Sweaters and Mugs Car Bumper Stickers hell some of Camella Too Awesome I have to say I Smell What Joe is Sniffing "Americana"



I favor a 50 state collapse Soviet Union style,  Democrat policies crashing the economy will get that ball rolling quickly imo once the evictions start.

The Biden coup against Trump is going to look a lot like when they captured Gorbachev. I look forward to not being tied to the insanity of California and their collapse.



_Carlos Antonio De Bourbon Montenegro, 53, and Marcos Raul Arevalo, 34, were charged in a 41-count criminal complaint filed last week. The pair faces one count of conspiracy to commit voter fraud, eight counts of voter fraud, four counts of procuring and offering a false or forged instrument and four misdemeanor counts of interference with a prompt transfer of a completed affidavit, according to the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office. Montenegro is also facing an additional 10 counts of voter fraud, seven counts of procuring and offering a false or forged instrument, two counts of perjury and five misdemeanor counts of interference with a prompt transfer of a completed affidavit.

Montenegro submitted over 8,000 fraudulent voter registration applications between July and October of this year, according to the district attorney’s office. Additionally, Montenegro allegedly falsified, “names, addresses and signatures on nomination papers under penalty of perjury to run for mayor in the city of Hawthorne.”

Montenegro faces a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison, while Arevalo faces up to seven years._


https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...cations-on-behalf-of-homeless-people/2464168/


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 20, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> *You may call it a formality*, but it’s the actual vote that decides who the next President is. I understand your side is claiming they won so it would go against the hive mind to think otherwise, but Biden is only projected to win at this point in time.
> 
> Once the Electoral College actually votes no one has won or lost. You also don’t know me or know how I’ll react when the final winner is chosen. I’ll simply state the facts which Biden is now the President Elect, but to state that right now would be lying.


I called it a formality because that's exactly what it is.  Your complaint is moot, as there is no probable scenario where Biden loses nor have you presented one.  Georgia just finished it's manual recount btw, reaffirming Biden's win there.  

For Trump to win, he now requires 37+ of Biden's electors to flip (not happening) or provide evidence of widespread election fraud (he hasn't).  

For any Trump supporters who are unhappy that most of the world has already acknowledged Biden's victory, please see Trump's November 2016 claim of "winning the Electoral College in a landslide" weeks ahead of the electors casting their ballots:
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2016


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

CORE said:


> But at the same time there is Great Opportunity to get the USA Economy Booming with some of these awesome Merchandise.


Endgame of the people keeping you in despair and horror loops touting a 'bigger conspiracy' to everything, trying to keep you away from friends and peers, by becoming more and more extreme, getting more and more emotionaly dependent on the ingroup of people managing those micro cults - sadly is to have you buy their merchandise, or subscribe to their 'news' outlets exclusively. Because by then you'll only have money for one newspaper and a mug left.

But if they can pull in 10% of americans into those schemes... Hey, they'd made themselves another voter base similar to "evangelicals".

That the model, really.

Thats what they are payed for, by moneyed interests.

Thats why the GOP is still supporting outrageous claims, not giving a f*ck about the state of certainly not democracy you are in by now.

Hey why not use an Ideocracy ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ ) avatar, while you are doing that? Perverting even art that tries to point this out?

You have no morals, you hoodwink stupid folks, why even pretend otherwise?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Montenegro submitted over 8,000 fraudulent voter registration applications between July and October of this year, according to the district attorney’s office. Additionally, Montenegro allegedly falsified, “names, addresses and signatures on nomination papers under penalty of perjury to run for mayor in the city of Hawthorne.”


Under penalty of perjury to run for mayor in the city of Hawthorne.

Thats a deranged persons scheme to become mayor of a town in the boondocks.

Thats not connected to the national elections.

We know those schemes exist in those cases. Because of literally stupid people, that imagine - they will never be found out, for trying to pull that sh*t off. Who then somehow are caught (because you have checkes for that happening in your voting system), put to jail and done with.

Just for curiosity's sake, I would very much like to know how the heck they scaled this up to 8000 voter fraud attempts per person.

Did they just 'spam', or was there actually more merit to it?

Because even if you coordinate 50 old folks homes to grift their voting ballots, you dont get 8000 ballots under your control.



> The conspiracy charge alleges that Montenegro submitted and filed signed nomination papers containing 41 signatures and addresses to the city clerk this summer and that just 18 of the names, addresses and signatures on the nomination papers were validated by the Los Angeles County Registrar- Recorder's Office


Ok, thats not voter fraud, thats filling up 'we support you' signature lists with bull.



> The conspiracy charge also alleges that Montenegro was subsequently issued write-in candidate nomination papers and that he "submitted and filed signed write-in candidate nomination papers containing 32 signatures and addresses for fictitious, non-existent or deceased person'' with the city clerk's office.


Ok, those are not national election voting ballots, those also are 'nomination support papers'.



> It further alleges that he and co-defendant Marcos Raul Arevalo "and other unknown co-conspirators'' used three post office boxes in Hawthorne as well as Montenegro's home address "as mailing addresses for over 8,000 voter registration applications for fictitious, non-existent or deceased persons, that were submitted for processing to the Los Angeles County Registrar- Recorder's Office and the California Secretary of State.''


Deranged person and a friend, confirmed to try to commit fraud in the dumbest way possible, not believing that there are sanity checks active for stuff like this, and now rotting in jail.

Hey, why stop at 8000 grifted votes, with 3 mail boxes and your own home address? Why not go to 16.000? 160.000? The sky is the limit really! (Or your budget to pay for post office boxes, I mean, you could afford three....)


----------



## tabzer (Nov 20, 2020)

Lacius said:


> As for an example when absence of evidence can be evidence of absence, take the claim that I keep a pet alligator in my basement. If you come over to my basement and see no alligator, no pool, no cage, no alligator food, no blood stains, etc., then you have absence of evidence that functions as evidence of absence. The same could be said for the claim that I own a cat in my house. If you come over to my house and see no cat, no litter box, no cat food, no cat toys, no cat hair, etc., this is an example of absence of evidence equaling evidence of absence.



Thanks for that.  When the boundaries of a possibility are established, and that possibility is not found within the boundary, then it is sufficient to say that the possibility does not exist--at least on a tangible basis.




Lacius said:


> You made the claim that Trump could still win the election, but you never provided evidence of how this is possible, mathematically or otherwise. When specifically going down the route of widespread voter fraud, you never provided evidence of widespread voter fraud.




The logical pathways for Trump to win the election still possibly exists as long as he has not conceded and there is still time on the clock.  These logical pathways are dependent on variables that are radical or undefined--to us.  They are up to him.  I've only reinforced that there are established boundaries for him to win, not that he will win.  You want me to support evidence of the latter.  Why are you being pushy?  You want me to "provide evidence" or in other words, make his case for him.  It's not my job.



Lacius said:


> You made the claim I lied about making a mundane edit to my point. Whether or not I made the edit, you never provided evidence of a lie.



I quoted you in a response only to look up to see that it had changed.  That's why I questioned if you were retroactively editing your posts.  It was a genuine concern, which I brought up.  You feigned ingorance--which put us at an awkward position.  Either I was misrepresenting what I was responding to, or you had edited your post.  It's my word vs. yours on this matter.  My word is that you changed it.  Of course, the seasoned GBAtemp poster knows that you can edit a post and not have it flagged as being edited, so as long you do it within the time constraint/site's registration of views.  I gave you the opportunity to be frank about it, and maintain a respectable position.  You decided to turn it into a game of "well, you can't prove it." and deny the fact that you are a human.



Lacius said:


> You made the claim that I said lying and pedophilia were comparable in how bad they were, but you never provided evidence.



You called me a pedophile in response to me saying that you are lying to me, and then said that it was asinine to assume that it was intended to be harsher or a form retaliation.  This is a demonstration that you are not respecting the values, on a social level, of the weight in pedophilia vs lying.  In another argument, I could agree with you.  Let's say, if you were arguing that lying was a form of corruption that could consequently enable pedophiles.



Lacius said:


> You made the claim that there was another option with regard to you misunderstanding the burden of proof or being disingenuous when discussing the burden of proof, but you never provided another option. For context, you said Amanda had a burden of proof, when in fact she was calling you out for not providing evidence for other claims you made. When I described how you had the burden of proof, you continued to insist you did not. Since this followed my explanation of burden of proof, you either didn't understand burden of proof, or you were being disingenuous. There are no other options that you have demonstrated.



Put up or shut up, because not unlike you, I'm too lazy to find the exact post.  As for my recollection, you tried to force me to choose between two scenarios that I didn't agree with.  That's so like you btw.  I gave a third option, which was more representative of myself, and you called it irrelevant.   My line of reasoning, as I recall, was that if my genuine position was irrelevant, so were "people" in general.




Lacius said:


> It is possible for there to be widespread voter fraud without there being evidence of widespread voter fraud, but the time to believe there was widespread voter fraud is when there's evidence of widespread voter fraud



That is if you assume that the US democratic process is something to have faith in.



VinsCool said:


> Honestly @Lacius and @tabzer I am getting tired of you both playing that little game of "I'm right, no I'M RIGHT!".
> 
> Pages and pages of pointless argument over something as simple as "show evidence of voting fraud", simply because each side is refusing to post their sources as long as the other one doesn't.
> 
> ...



I appreciate Vin's post.  It shows me the optics of a potential viewer of the thread.  Even though I feel like I am misunderstood in this context, I feel that it is helpful for everyone involved.



ut2k4master said:


> well one side is consistently posting multiple sources, the other is just making claims. i wouldnt say theyre equal



My disputes were about making false conclusions and pretending that the sources supported those conclusions.  The only source I objected to was the Rudy in the Borat movie--in light to the person using it as a source, while rejecting Project Veritas as being substandard. @Ev1l0rd.  Haha.  :/



Lacius said:


> If I were you, I'd delete his offending posts and mine that quote the offending posts.



See.  This makes you the jerk (self-censored).



Lacius said:


> I hate to say it, but it may be time I leave this site. My free time allegedly isn't being put to good use.



Despite our differences on political matters and narrative control, I do really appreciate your ability to contribute to the homebrew scene and wish you to flourish.  If you can walk away from a fight, that will only make you more prepared for the next one.  People who take risks, and fail, over and over again, are bound to be successful at some point.  The people who never try, are never going to be.

I'm just giving you your own medicine, friend.  I don't treat people in disrespectable ways.  I try to treat them with the respect that they show.  That's me trying to adapt to them.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 20, 2020)

Still waiting on @monkeyman4412, btw.  He can't hang on Lacius's coattails now that he is "gone".


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 20, 2020)

Let me debunk all the bullshit from the press conference yesterday.

A look at the claims and reality:



POWELL: “The Dominion Voting Systems, the Smartmatic technology software, and the software that goes in other computerized voting systems here as well, not just Dominion, were created in Venezuela at the direction of Hugo Chavez to make sure he never lost an election after one constitutional referendum came out the way he did not want it to come out.”


THE FACTS: No, Dominion does not have any ties to Venezuela, nor does it have a partnership with Smartmatic, according to Eddie Perez, a voting technology expert at the OSET Institute, a nonpartisan election technology research and development nonprofit.

Smartmatic is an international company incorporated in Florida by Venezuelan founders. The company states on its website that it’s not associated with governments or political parties of any country.

___

POWELL: “One of (the software’s) most characteristic features is its ability to flip votes. It can set and run an algorithm that probably ran all over the country to take a certain percentage of votes from President Trump and flip them to President Biden.”


THE FACTS: That didn’t happen. There’s no evidence that any of Dominion’s systems switched votes for Trump to count as votes for Biden. A statement released by the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency, a federal agency that oversees U.S. election security, says there’s no truth to claims that votes cast for Trump were switched to count for Biden or deleted.

___


POWELL, on reports that a U.S. voting server is in Germany: “That is true, it’s somehow related to this but I do not know whether good guys got it or bad guys got it."

THE FACTS: No, it’s not true. Powell is referencing a fictitious story that a server hosting evidence of voting irregularities in the Nov. 3 U.S. election was in Germany.

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas claimed last week that “U.S. Army forces” seized a server from a Frankfurt office. An Army spokesman described allegations that the Army had recovered servers in Germany as false.

Two voting software companies that conspiracy theorists said were linked to the German server — Scytl and Dominion — have both released statements denying those claims.

___

POWELL: “President Trump won by a landslide.”

THE FACTS: That’s false. Biden has an Electoral College lead of 306 to 232 after The Associated Press on Thursday declared him the winner in Georgia. That's the same margin Trump had in 2016. Back then, Trump described it as a “landslide.” Biden also leads the popular vote by nearly 6 million votes


----------



## smf (Nov 20, 2020)

In the video the 2nd woman says that "we aren't trying this case in the court of public opinion".

Which is news to me as Trump started months ago.

He did this to get into peoples minds that it was real. Now after the election the major evidence we have is Trump trying to make people think it was fraudulent, so anything that looks like fraud is probably stuff made up by Trump.

If he'd kept his mouth shut then we could have had an investigation into both Trump and Bidens votes and found which if any were fraudulent without all this distraction.

Rudy says that judges are appointed politically too many of them are hacks. I wonder if he was thinking of Amy Coney Barrett

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/brooklynmutt/status/1329503459444465666


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 20, 2020)

CORE said:


> Biden as President is not a Bad thing after all it has helped Wake Up The People not just in USA.
> 
> But at the same time there is Great Opportunity to get the USA Economy Booming with some of these awesome Merchandise.
> 
> A Simple Search on the Net for Sniffing Joe gets you great Shirts and Sweaters and Mugs Car Bumper Stickers hell some of Camella Too Awesome I have to say I Smell What Joe is Sniffing "Americana"



OBAMAGATE


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 20, 2020)

Yeah, keep trying, your conspiracy theories dont do anything.


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> THE FACTS: No, Dominion does not have any ties to Venezuela, nor does it have a partnership with Smartmatic, according to Eddie Perez, a voting technology expert at the OSET Institute, a nonpartisan election technology research and development nonprofit.
> 
> Smartmatic is an international company incorporated in Florida by Venezuelan founders. The company states on its website that it’s not associated with governments or political parties of any country.


AP followed up on the claim in more detail:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9740535009

They both owned the same voting machine company for a while - and its hard to determinate if code transitioned. 

But thats just the conspiracy angle.  Business angle is, that smartmatic, was forced (?) to sell it, two years after it acquired it, once its relationships to the Venezuelan government became public.

Then Dominion bought said voting machine company from Smartmatic.

In terms of viability of the claims, this is the best you get:


> There is “no credible evidence” that the 2020 election outcome was altered by exploiting technical vulnerabilities, according to an open letter signed by 59 election security experts and released Nov. 16.


(same src as above)

edit: Open letter signed by 59 election experts in the NYT
https://web.archive.org/web/2020111.../business/election-security-letter-trump.html

edit2: Actual letter (pdf)
https://www.mattblaze.org/papers/election2020.pdf



edit: 8kun administrator one of the key proponents of voting machine fraud theory is 'statistical expert' in the Trump team:
https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/11/ron-watkins-trump-dominion-fraud/
https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-conspiracy-to-steal-the-election-from-trump/
--


The claim, that "our votes were counted in germany and spain" pertains to online voting solutions used (oh dear god, some US states are that stupid?) which should be a miniscule fraction of all votes counted.
src: https://greatgameindia.com/us-election-bankrupted-spanish-scytl/
(Far right news source thats partial as hell. Partly financed by selling their own 'history novels'. Not recommended.)


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2020)

@tabzer 
I don't need to continue arguing with you. Here's my definitive proof that you just want to goal post move non stop until an argument sticks.


you: "Lol. What claim do I need to back up with a source * when claims I've made are about logical fallacies and inconsistencies wherein the source material is already provided?*
me quoting you as an example:"If Trump wins the election, it would probably be because he demonstrates,"wide spread voter fraud" or perhaps by arresting all of his political opponents. I'm not really sure how the latter works. I have trouble believing Biden outperformed Obama. Your comment that we are talking about, is factually inaccurate on multiple accounts. The only way that is seemed relevant or true was by poking fun at the court cases being proof of something."
my words:* "this you debunking a logical fallacy? or is this you stating your opinion without a source."*
you:*It is a hypothetical example* showing how Trump could still win the election. Add "hypothetical" to your vocabulary. Usually they start with the word "if".

You never stated hypothetical in that statement. Nor is that a hypothetical statement since you do believe in it.You essentially decided to say
"Oh hey I made this argument that doesn't work, let me go ahead and change my argument so I don't need to say I was wrong and hope that the person talking to me will just take my position change/dodge"
I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who beyond dishonest. I gave you chances to perhaps actually refute my points. But you have not, instead you sidestep and subtlety change arguments.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I feel like it's you who needs to cope after all the blatant voter fraud.


Look at the right-wing cycle in motion, everyone!
1) Make claim
2) Claim is debunked
3) Don't address the debunk
4) Wait for a few hours
5) MAKE THE SAME CLAIM AGAIN

It's not about being right, it's about _winning_ to these people. It's pathetic. Imagine standing for so little that you can't even come to terms with your own failure.



Spoiler: Quote thread that tells the whole story:






UltraSUPRA said:


> Don't act like you didn't do the same thing for four years when Trump get elected. Not only that, but there is actual proof of voter fraud this time.





SonowRaevius said:


> Is that why trump's lawsuits are being thrown out left and right and his own legal team has been backing down and withdrawing lawsuits as well?
> 
> I mean, surely if they have real proof they should just present to the case and win right? Not just shout "fraud" and then get absolutely nothing done.
> 
> Or do you have proof this time of something factual supra? or are you just blowing more smokes out of your ass?





UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234461 View attachment 234462





Darth Meteos said:


> I love these pictures! They're so easy to beat!
> The first one is a batch of mail-in ballots coming in, which were overwhelmingly Democratic. You can be sure they were, because Trump was saying over and over that they were corrupt and illegal leading up to the election, so Republicans didn't use them as much. On top of that, Democratic voters are more afraid of COVID, being that they aren't believing the undermining lies of the Trump Admin.
> 
> The second one is very easy to explain: The current president was a massive motivating factor. A lot of people love him and are highly motivated to vote, and a lot of them are highly motivated to take him out. Unless you're saying that Trump is low energy like Jeb! in 2016?





UltraSUPRA said:


> As for Dominion?





Darth Meteos said:


> Okay, I've had a look around, and it seems to be the claim by the Trump Admin that a company called Dominion erased several million votes, yeah?





UltraSUPRA said:


> Proven in Michigan. 6000 votes went from Trump to Biden in real time.
> Also, it was software.





Darth Meteos said:


> Big if true! Let's see the proof, then.





UltraSUPRA said:


> https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/0...ty-tallied-6000-republican-votes-as-democrat/





Darth Meteos said:


> ya boi really just used a federalist article as a source
> 
> Well, I read through the article, and it was sure a bunch of claims. Fortunately, this case has gone to court. The judge dismissed the case, saying that the case presented wasn't valid due to a..._ “... failure to persuade the Court of the existence of manifest error requiring reversal...”_
> So, according to the court where this case was filed, it doesn't even have enough evidence behind it to reach trial. Wah wah.



This final message was never responded to. UltraSUPRA went missing for some reason right after I posted it!
Then, several hours later:



UltraSUPRA said:


> I feel like it's you who needs to cope after all the blatant voter fraud.






Say it with me, everyone. COPE. MAGA COPE. BIG COPE. MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THIS. SAD!


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 20, 2020)

smf said:
			
		

> While we are at it, let's think about health care for all & other socialist policies. Careful you don't automatically discard them.



Socialism has been exhaustively studied and torn apart by Conservatives to see if it could be a viable alternative to our current way of life and it’s been determined that is doesn’t. We don’t simply discard something when we hear it’s name like your side does. You hear something you dislike, label it and the rest of your heard won’t even look into if it’s real/fake/viable. That’s what brainwashed morons do, not smart people.



			
				Darth Meteos said:
			
		

> Still more projection! Nah, I'm satisfied with my policies of choice. Besides, I think that a system that doesn't guarantee modern living necessities like housing, healthcare and education is a failed system. That's a pretty fucked system, where people are on the streets and treated like garbage while the top 1% has more money than they could ever spend.



No, your views of what I’m observing fall back to your limited ability to comprehend things. You can be aware of why someone does something and how to process works without having that be the only thing you see. I’m not projecting the way I see things as I’m trained to identify various behavior patterns and that’s just because I’m smart and you’re not. Even if I was projecting what I’m claiming isn’t false and you’d still be wrong.

Nothing in life is guaranteed. I don't owe you shit. You make this life the way you want it. It's not my fault if you choose to be miserable or are too stupid to see your choices have results and you're responsible for those results. People have the option to be successful if they want to be. It’s not my fault people choose a life of vain, glory, or pride, greed, or covetousness, lust, or inordinate or illicit sexual desire, envy, gluttony, wrath, or anger, and sloth and the fact that these sins make them miserable. Other peoples failures are not my responsibility. You get what you put in and if you can’t see that then you’re only projecting your miserable existence onto people who value honesty, integrity and hard work.



			
				Xzi said:
			
		

> First, American liberals are centrists at best. Second, I accepted the results on election night 2016, though it took a while longer to fully sink in. Third, you're free to scream, "not my president" all you want, that's a very different concept from "not THE president."
> 
> Trump was the second worst presidential candidate of all time (behind only Hillary Clinton for losing to him), and among the top three worst presidents of all time. And the sad thing is: he still would have won if not for his piss-poor handling of the pandemic. It was the first time the Trump administration had to deal with a disaster that wasn't of their own making, and they got a big fat F on that report card.
> 
> Your problem was believing Trump was a shoe-in to win when all the national polls had Biden up by about ten points. I knew it'd be a lot closer than that, and I knew Trump still had about a 33% chance to win. In that same vein, you should've given Biden at least a 33% chance (much more if you weren't inside an information bubble) in order to avoid all this drama in the aftermath of defeat.



We’re in America, Liberals in other countries don’t have anything to do with our political system. Trump did a damned good job even with the pandemic where he acted months before Liberals did. He closed borders, stopped immigration and formed teams of people to combat the virus while the entire time he did this the Liberals deflected the potential seriousness of the virus and called Trump and his supporters racists for reacting. Now the fucking hypocritical pieces of shit Liberals have the audacity to blame Trump’s response when theirs was millions of times worse. At least Trump took the issue seriously at first when your side didn't.

If anything the close race between Trump and Biden should shine a light on how bias Liberal polls are. I had no idea what was going to happen and if the Electoral College votes for Biden in a couple of weeks then I’ll gladly call him my President. Your side still has people, like you said, saying “Not my President” and that’s factually inaccurate. Trump won the 2016 elect and is the President of the United States so he is your President if you’re a USA citizen regardless if you you like him or not. I don't particularity care for rich people, but he's took Obama's "the best it's going to get, you have to get used to the new normal" and made things thousands of times better, while proving Obama dead wrong.



			
				LumInvader said:
			
		

> I called it a formality because that's exactly what it is. Your complaint is moot, as there is no probable scenario where Biden loses nor have you presented one. Georgia just finished it's manual recount btw, reaffirming Biden's win there.
> 
> For Trump to win, he now requires 37+ of Biden's electors to flip (not happening) or provide evidence of widespread election fraud (he hasn't).
> 
> For any Trump supporters who are unhappy that most of the world has already acknowledged Biden's victory, please see Trump's November 2016 claim of "winning the Electoral College in a landslide" weeks ahead of the electors casting their ballots:



Of course you’re going to try to twist reality to match what your sides media is claiming, but that doesn’t actually change reality. Even if there’s no way Trump could possibly win at this point he still hasn’t lost because the vote hasn’t taken place. You can ignore it because your side prematurely claimed victory, but that doesn’t change the fact the vote that makes Biden the next President hasn’t taken place yet.

Look, if you turn 18 on December 14th, 2020, but call yourself 18 in the month of November prior to your birthday you’re lying about your age. When you buy a lotto ticket, you don’t win until the actual drawing takes places regardless of what you want to happen. You can call the Electoral College vote a formality or any other verbiage that will help defend your sides lies, but Joe Biden is not the President Elect until the Electoral College votes he is. At the time the Electoral College votes and makes Joe Biden the President Elect I'll gladly call him so. I'm not some partisan hack that hates Presidents just because my side lost. I'm patriotic and love the USA and will support our elected officials, including Biden if he becomes the next President, because it's the right thing to do. Conservatives value truth and honesty, which is why we don't get alone with Liberals as they value lying, cheating and scandalous behavior.

When the electoral college votes and when they choose Biden as the winner I will then refer to him as the winner, but until the vote takes place he’s only projected to win and that’s a big fucking deal, because the vote decides who wins and who loses. The media doesn’t get to call elections, the actual people who vote do. We’ve had 4 years of Trump exposing the leftist medias lies so this situation isn’t surprising, it just goes to show how stupid you and your side are.

You don’t count your chickens until they hatch even if you’ve been watching them develop using x-rays.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 20, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Socialism has been exhaustively studied and torn apart by Conservatives to see if it could be a viable alternative to our current way of life and it’s been determined that is doesn’t. We don’t simply discard something when we hear it’s name like your side does. You hear something you dislike, label it and the rest of your heard won’t even look into if it’s real/fake/viable. That’s what brainwashed morons do, not smart people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes HUGO CHAVEZ ANDDARTH VADER Created Dominion in 2010 to steal the 2020 election ...


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Say it with me, everyone. COPE. MAGA COPE. BIG COPE. MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THIS. SAD!


We all know what MAGA really stood for. 

Moronic Asswipe "Governs" America


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Look at the right-wing cycle in motion, everyone!
> 1) Make claim
> 2) Claim is debunked
> 3) Don't address the debunk
> ...



Kind of like the TDS Democrats obsession with Russia, etc etc. for the past 4 years, and all the "polls" having Biden ahead by 10 points?

The real voter fraud was done by the media and big tech, starting the day Trump got elected. 

You won't hear me screaming at the sky / acting like a moron because we lost an election.  The converse clearly isn't the case (those who were TDS affected).

You can keep kicking and screaming all you want, I won't be saying anything further on this topic.

Sorry Taiwan :/


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Socialism has been exhaustively studied and torn apart by Conservatives to see if it could be a viable alternative to our current way of life and it’s been determined that is doesn’t.


This is ridiculous. It's in the name, mate, it's a _conserv_ative. Conservation of the status quo. Conservatives don't study socialism, they fight it for the rights of the rich. You are so agonizingly wrong that I almost don't want to keep on with the rest of this novel you've written, but nevertheless...



gregory-samba said:


> No, your views of what I’m observing fall back to your limited ability to comprehend things. You can be aware of why someone does something and how to process works without having that be the only thing you see. I’m not projecting the way I see things as I’m trained to identify various behavior patterns and that’s just because I’m smart and you’re not. Even if I was projecting what I’m claiming isn’t false and you’d still be wrong.


It is amazing how much you can type without saying anything.
A key component of projection (why I used that instead of words like hypocrisy) is that it is not a fair assessment. You project onto someone if they do not embody what you are saying, but you do. That's what projection is.
Look at this goof trying to sound smart by using big words he doesn't understand.



gregory-samba said:


> Nothing in life is guaranteed. I don't owe you shit. You make this life the way you want it. It's not my fault if you choose to be miserable or are too stupid to see your choices have results and you're responsible for those results. People have the option to be successful if they want to be. It’s not my fault people choose a life of vain, glory, or pride, greed, or covetousness, lust, or inordinate or illicit sexual desire, envy, gluttony, wrath, or anger, and sloth and the fact that these sins make them miserable. Other peoples failures are not my responsibility. You get what you put in and if you can’t see that then you’re only projecting your miserable existence onto people who value honesty, integrity and hard work.


I love it when conservatives say this shit to me. We live in a society, you backwards ghoul. We can cooperate for the greater good of the whole amongst ourselves. This survival of the fittest shit makes sense in the wild, but this _isn't the wild._ We can guarantee healthcare to everyone, and good living standards. We are not bound to respect that your life should end because you got sick at random and the treatment cost more than your income can afford. We are not locked to a lifestyle where getting a good job is gated behind something as arbitrary as being born to the wrong parents. We don't have to live your disgusting, backwards battle royale where the poor suffer and die, while the rich who didn't earn _anything_ but the luck of being the right sperm get to live in luxury for their entire lives.
You repulse me.

If your plan was to be so abhorrent that I can't bear to read your scummy, putrid words through to the end enough times to produce a counter to the remaining two vomitous piles you excreted, you won. Congratulations.



AmandaRose said:


> Moronic Asswipe "Governs" America


not gonna lie, man
pretty cringe
leave the kiddy insults to the professionals over there, we have substance to hit them with


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2020)

Well, i guess i now have to pospone my dream of moving to America for at least 4 more years


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 20, 2020)

eastwald said:


> Kind of like the TDS Democrats obsession with Russia, etc etc. for the past 4 years, and all the "polls" having Biden ahead by 10 points?
> 
> The real voter fraud was done by the media and big tech, starting the day Trump got elected.
> 
> ...



Because the "Debunk" is always "it is not statistically significant" regardless of how many examples are cited or "I don't trust any source claim, witness, or affidavit from a person right of Stalin, come back with a source of a person whose face is literally a hammer & sickle".

Your partisan rejection as "that doesn't matter" or "I am not going to investigate that claim because I don't care" is not debunking.   









Azerus_Kun said:


> Well, i guess i now have to pospone my dream of moving to America for at least 4 more years



Were full, I hear Canada is nice.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

eastwald said:


> Kind of like the TDS Democrats obsession with Russia, etc etc. for the past 4 years, and all the "polls" having Biden ahead by 10 points?


Yeah, fuck Russia, a hoax from start to finish.
The polls are consistently undermined by Trump. Seems some people are lying. A theory I've heard is that people are uncomfortable with saying they're gonna vote for Trump for fear of being mixed up with the MAGA crowd, but honestly it's probably just pollsters being really shit at picking who's going to vote.



eastwald said:


> You can keep kicking and screaming all you want, I won't be saying anything further on this topic.


Cringe. Look at this guy, fuckin' playing amongst the rabble, saying his piece, then humbly saying "I will not respond to your criticisms"
Pathetic.



Azerus_Kun said:


> Well, i guess i now have to postpone my dream of moving to America for at least 4 more years


Don't worry, Biden is almost as bad as Trump, but is more quiet about all the illegal shit he does. You'll do fine.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Because the "Debunk" is always "it is not statistically significant" regardless of how many examples are cited or "I don't trust any source claim, witness, or affidavit from a person right of Stalin, come back with a source of a person whose face is literally a hammer & sickle".
> 
> Your partisan rejection as "that doesn't matter" or "I am not going to investigate that claim because I don't care" is not debunking.
> 
> ...


nah, i wanted to go to America because i wanted to own a gun without having to give 35 different documents to the government to own a small pistol, going to canada would miss said purpose, though i guess the currency is more stable and the weather is more to my liking


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>


I will say this: The miserable liberals who never shut up about Russia and Gore like Bill Maher need to dig into a hole and shut their mouths forever.



Azerus_Kun said:


> nah, i wanted to go to America because i wanted to own a gun without having to give 35 different documents to the government to own a small pistol, going to canada would miss said purpose, though i guess the currency is more stable and the weather is more to my liking


Biden isn't gonna go after guns, and even if he does, it'll be shot down in the Senate. Get ready for 4 years of Biden performatively crying every time a mass shooting happens, saying: "Something _must_ be done!"
and then nothing happens...


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> not gonna lie, man
> pretty cringe
> leave the kiddy insults to the professionals over there, we have substance to hit them with


Why they aren't smart enough to understand us or in fact the truth ect so much easier to just go down to their level


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I will say this: The miserable liberals who never shut up about Russia and Gore like Bill Maher need to dig into a hole and shut their mouths forever.
> 
> 
> Biden isn't gonna go after guns, and even if he does, it'll be shot down in the Senate. Get ready for 4 years of Biden performatively crying every time a mass shooting happens, saying: "Something _must_ be done!"
> and then nothing happens...


what about my other biggest concern, taxes?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> what about my other biggest concern, taxes?


If Biden does taxes, they'll be weak, and aimed at the rich. As the left-wing of the party grows in power, there'll be renewed calls to reverse Trump's tax cuts, which were massive cuts to the rich and barely anything to the lower classes. If you make less than $1m a year, you'll be mostly unaffected. If you make less than $250k a year, you _won't_ be affected.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 20, 2020)

So when Biden re-deploys Troops to Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan as he has stated he intends to do after Trump has brought home 80-90% depending on the theater I don't want to hear this bullshit as "Bad as or worst than"

Biden is a irrelevant Dementia patient sitting in a chair, the DNC party is ran by militant, anti-American feminists  that hate everything about the U.S and 90% of the people that are taking up space they could be redistributing to Africa & South America.



Azerus_Kun said:


> what about my other biggest concern, taxes?



Unless you are in a high income tax bracket left or right it is generally more of a state issue than federal.  Federal taxes are fairly easy to avoid,  state & property taxes are where they bend you over.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 20, 2020)

Well, turns out that Biden not only cheated to "win" this election (before Trump's legal team has most of the illegal votes thrown out), Obama and him may have cheated back in 2012 as well.

Straight from the dementia-ridden, child-sniffing, horse's mouth:


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> So when Biden re-deploys Troops to Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan as he has stated he intends to do after Trump has brought home 80-90% depending on the theater I don't want to hear this bullshit as "Bad as or worst than"






I assure you, while I am very pleased that Trump is gone, because I think Biden is better overall, including for my own purposes, fuck Biden and his admin. An absolute disaster.



jimbo13 said:


> the DNC party is ran by militant, anti-American feminists  that hate everything about the U.S and 90% of the people that are taking up space they could be redistributing to Africa & South America.


And here's the point of disagreement. I think they're lazy, cushy elites who forgot why they entered politics in the first place, bathing in the stew of their own corruption. They'll be dealt with in the near future, if things go well.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Biden is a irrelevant Dementia patient sitting in a chair,



As someone who's mum has dementia I find all your sides jokes about Biden potentially having it rather distasteful. No matter how much you dislike someone making fun of someone who may have dementia is nether big or clever of you. In fact it's rather despicable.


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

>


Not that bad of a meme, but this time its different. 

You are alleging 12 different kinds of voting fraud, having flipped the election in four states separately, by several hundreds of thousands of votes.

- Gore won Florida, was an issue based on voter delisting. That was tried to be combated by going to a recount. (Which didnt solve much.)

- Diebold machines gave it to Bush - I'm actually not familiar with. Certainly not a claim made by the DNC at that time.

- Russians rigged our election. Literally a stupid meme, based on mostly facebook advetising spending, and the FBI starting an investigation based on leaks from the DNC hack?(!?) So yeah - pretty stupid.


But now comes the king of stupid.

Campaign officials alleging 15 different kinds of voter fraud, three of them alone in the 'Venezulean voting mashines were rigged, and then failed, and then were replaced by ballot stuffing, that was not related to, but only made possible by mail ballots?" and that only failed, because so many people voted Trump? (Algorithm couldnt handle it.)

WIth no evidence on hand? Without ever having seen such an algorithm or having spoken to someone who wrote one? Alleging, that it failed, because too many people supported Trump? Alleging, that four states had ballots ready to stuff into boxes, just in case - as a contingency?

And alleging that behavior on four states simultaniously. For several 100.000s of votes?

All the while insisting, that most structural fraud was NOT done in the counties that were close, but in the counties that had a high propensity for dem voters? (Which is actually somehow the most likely accusation for 'structural' fraud. If you allow a few people to correct their votes in heavily dem favored areas but not in others - that might actually matter structurally. (Depends on rate of false votes) - but that didnt bring you up to the 100.000s of votes you needed in four seperate states, so now you went with your

"Venezulan general, had flashbacks, when vote counting stopped because of a bug -we have his affidavit" defense?
-

Here is the bottom line. If you go crazy all you want over 'generalisms' (russia did it). No on cares. If you go crazy in one state, up to the point - where a recount 'finishes' the debate. (At least in practice - even if not all your questions are answered) - fine.

If you insist, that in four states several hundred thousands of dem votes have to be 'thrown out', or you want to stall the declaration process to the point, where state officials can decide on electoral votes independant of voting outcome.

You are actually destroying democracy. Clownface or not.

Also dont be so stupid. We are writing pages after pages on actual analysis, you are posting fabricated memes from hategroups... What gives?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, turns out that Biden not only cheated to "win" this election (before Trump's legal team has most of the illegal votes thrown out), Obama and him may have cheated back in 2012 as well.
> 
> Straight from the dementia-ridden, child-sniffing, horse's mouth:


Either Biden is a goop-brained dementia patient who doesn't know what he's saying, or he's a mastermind. Make up your own mind.
From what I see, this slack-jawed idiot can't even get out a simple sentence, and this isn't evidence. He called Trump 'George' for fuck's sake, he doesn't know what he's talking about.



AmandaRose said:


> As someone who's mum has dementia I find all your sides jokes about Biden potentially having it rather distasteful. No matter how much you dislike someone making fun of someone who may have dementia is nether big or clever of you. In fact it's rather despicable.


I have had close family members die from Alzheimer's. If you want to direct your anger at someone, direct it at Joe's family or his handlers who have kept him in the race long after he should have dropped out, just to deny Sanders. It's elder abuse that he's still doing this.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 20, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, turns out that Biden not only cheated to "win" this election (before Trump's legal team has most of the illegal votes thrown out), Obama and him may have cheated back in 2012 as well.
> 
> Straight from the dementia-ridden, child-sniffing, horse's mouth:




Our elections are always rigged, this is why there was media hysteria in 2016 because they were not expecting Trump to win so they didn't resort to rigging.

We have two parties engaged in controlled opposition to each other much like Pro Wrestlers, who control and keep third party and independent candidates out of the debates and off the ballot.

On the rare occasion someone who is not controlled opposition like Nader, Trump, Paul, Ventura, Sanders, Kucinich, Perot, Gabbard, etc make it through the process of getting past ballot restrictions, the media smear campaigns, and all the numerous procedural roadblocks it is the only time they resort to straight out rigging the ballots as we are seeing this year.

Republican or Democrat is irrelevant, the CIA and deepstate want two things:  Open border Globalism/world government and perpetual war/aggressive foreign policy to that goal.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> On the rare occasion someone who is not controlled opposition like Nader, Trump, Paul, Ventura, Sanders, Kucinich, Perot, Gabbard, etc make it through the process of getting past ballot restrictions, the media smear campaigns, and all the numerous procedural roadblocks it is the only time they resort to straight out rigging the ballots as we are seeing this year.


I would like to point out that it is much easier to rig a primary, being that they're mostly run by private companies either funded by or directly controlled by the DNC and the RNC as opposed to the federal government. If rigging is going to come from anywhere in a federal, it's gonna be top down from the sitting president. This is why I give far more credence to Trump's claims that Obama was spying on him than any of the fraud claims about the 2020 General, and that's before the lack of evidence kicks in.

I mean, the DNC's defense in court over the 2016 primary was "it's a private thing, we're allowed"


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Our elections are always rigged, this is why there was media hysteria in 2016 because they were not expecting Trump to win so they didn't resort to rigging.


You still are and always will be an idiot. You dont 'resort to rigging - because its close' - in this case - for the case of president elect, it wasnt. 6 million of votes difference in total. Several hundred thousand in four states that are now targeted with legal cases.

You are alleging, that people would look at pre election polls, the week of the election, and then decide if they should implement an illegal scheme or not.

Your world is literally a bad crime novel. Thats not a way to structure a coup...
Thats not even a way to spend donor money. Because the next year all your spending could be none and void, if another state turns out to be closer and therefor more important. What do you do with all those fine rigged voting machines, that actually came not from Venezuela? (Abandon them? Rigg more? And if you 'rigg more', why did you start that process, only when Trump was in office - the guy that literally did everything the GOP wanted him to? That actually appointed candidates who had apprenticeships in previous swamp schemes on alleged election rigging to the supreme court.)

Thats imagination with nothing underneath to back it.

So you set up your illegal fraud scheme the week before the elections? When all polls still told you you were winning by 6% (which is a high margin)?

If we are fighting against the 90 IQ squad, none of this is fun, and it starts to feel like abuse...

Live in your fantasy world all you want, dont bother the other people around here with stories you made up in your mind - and no connection to reality.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> You never stated hypothetical in that statement.



Wow.  You really need to need to research the definition of "if".  I have not shifted goal posts, at all.  I don't know what's going to happen.  I hope something happens.  But what happens is what happens.  Your interpretation of what is happening is simply unreliable.



monkeyman4412 said:


> You never stated hypothetical in that statement.



Literacy fail.



monkeyman4412 said:


> you sidestep and subtlety change arguments.



Oh yeah?  How did I do that?

I'm not being dishonest.  I'm offended by your trashy projections.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

notimp said:


> If we are fighting against the 90 IQ squad, none of this is fun, and it starts to feel like abuse...


Ah, but it's consensual. We wouldn't want to deny anyone some _facts and logic._


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> ...


@monkeyman4412: you're not doing this right
@tabzer: no
@monkeyman4412:


----------



## notimp (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Ah, but it's consensual. We wouldn't want to deny anyone some _facts and logic._


The voter fraud scheme with hacked voting machines from Venezuela only started with Trump, and only because - they knew it would be hard to beat him this time - is based on what?

- the polls that tell you differently?
- the voting mashine issues that were known since 2006?
- the idea, that the best fraud is cobbled together a week before the election, when your polling numbers should finally fall into place?
- the idea, that basing your entire voting result on a high stakes, illegal scheme made up in the last week of the election (when you'd roughly know the amounts of votes you need), is the best way to spend donor funds?
- the idea, that even though Giuliani said there was voter mobilization that was the structural fraud issue (people getting voting ballots, without having requested them?!), that didnt matter?
- the idea that, even though Giuliani said there was voter mobilization, that was not at all the structural fraud issue (people that his party mobilized), that it mattered very much, that so many people voted for Trump because it broke the algorithm, which made dems switch over to ballot stuffing?

So mobilizing fraud was first, then came mail ballot fraud, then came selective structural fraud (letting dems correct invalid votes in districts that are heavily dems favored, but not in others), then came the voting mashine fraud, which was made to bug out by your republican mobilizing not-fraud, then came the ballot stuffing fraud, where some of the ballots were even forged? As a last minute contingency? While one of the parts in the middle was organized by Venezuelan communist money, and Soros donations?

Did I summarize the Rudy story correctly?

And all of that was organized - 'when the democrats knew they would have a hard time against Trump' - which according to polling was - the day of the election?

Jesus, I dont blaim you for not getting the Trump story correct at this point in time - but 'resorting to voter fraud, only once you knew you couldnt beat him' has you contact the deceased Hugo Chavez (or his election consultants) when?

Middle of last year, when he already was dead?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 20, 2020)

Hi @Darth Meteos.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 20, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> View attachment 234652
> I assure you, while I am very pleased that Trump is gone, because I think Biden is better overall, including for my own purposes, fuck Biden and his admin. An absolute disaster.


The lesser of two evils is still an evil. If you thought that both choices were bad, you should have left the country.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 20, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The lesser of two evils is still an evil. If you thought that both choices were bad, you should have left the country.


Yes because thats really a mature thing to do when you don't like something or times are hard.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 20, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The lesser of two evils is still an evil. If you thought that both choices were bad, you should have left the country.


Wrong. Only a child thinks like that. One of the choices was worse, so I chose the lesser of the two evils. I didn't decide on the choice, I was given the choice. I even tried to influence the choice so I could make one I was happier about, but I lost. There'll be other choices later.

If someone holds a gun to my head and says, "You're gonna bathe in shit or eat shit, and if you don't make a choice, I'll make one for you," choosing to bathe in shit is the right move. Will I feel better about myself if he makes me eat shit? Will I feel righteously indignant that I'm eating shit right now, because it wasn't a fair choice?
No, I'll bathe in the shit and spend my entire time bathing making an effort to get out of the bastard tub.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 20, 2020)

eastwald said:
			
		

> Kind of like the TDS Democrats obsession with Russia, etc etc. for the past 4 years, and all the "polls" having Biden ahead by 10 points?



No shit. We had 4 years of the Liberals refusing to accept the 2016 election results filled with numerous impeachment attempts, including the fake Russian Collusion conspiracy theory and then all of a sudden we're the ones who are sorry losers and can't let go and face reality when Biden hasn't even won yet. For the fucking Liberals to go and call foul over something minor compared to what they did for the last 4 years is beyond hypocritical.



			
				jimbo13 said:
			
		

> Because the "Debunk" is always "it is not statistically significant" regardless of how many examples are cited or "I don't trust any source claim, witness, or affidavit from a person right of Stalin, come back with a source of a person whose face is literally a hammer & sickle".



Your meme made me chuckle because it's highlighting the stupidity coming from the left exactly how it's happening. Somehow after claiming Russia colluded with Trump and interfered with the 2016 election now it's impossible there can be an ounce of election fraud. Two faced morons surround me on this site.



			
				Darth Meteos said:
			
		

> I will say this: The miserable liberals who never shut up about Russia and Gore like Bill Maher need to dig into a hole and shut their mouths forever.



That should apply to the miserable Liberals on this board who after 4 years still can't name 1 positive thing Trump did, still claim there was Russian collusion, still planned on impeaching Trump just because he won, etc ... etc ... Just today Trump tries to act on reducing prescription drug prices, something Liberals have wanted to happen and all they do is attack him for it. He gives his entire salary away to charity and all they do is attack him for it. TDS bleeds from their retarded veins.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 20, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> That didn’t happen. There’s no evidence that any of Dominion’s systems switched votes for Trump to count as votes for Biden. A statement released by the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency, a federal agency that oversees U.S. election security, says there’s no truth to claims that votes cast for Trump were switched to count for Biden or deleted.



I think it's funny that all of gbatemp will jump on blawar for keeping his tinfoil closed source, yet it seems that we should be okay when the vote is closed source.  Bringing in electronic voting machines into elections was a step backwards imo.  I suppose we just have to have faith.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 21, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The lesser of two evils is still an evil. If you thought that both choices were bad, you should have left the country.


does that mean that you will leave the country now that the "evil" choice has won?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 21, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> does that mean that you will leave the country now that the "evil" choice has won?



If the election process gets stalled, we will be living in this topic for the rest of our lives.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

That's a hypothetical @monkeyman4412


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I have had close family members die from Alzheimer's. If you want to direct your anger at someone, direct it at Joe's family or his handlers who have kept him in the race long after he should have dropped out, just to deny Sanders. It's elder abuse that he's still doing this.


The point is all the trump supporters claim to be good Christian folks. Yet their constant abuse of Biden having dementia goes against several of the main Christian values. Such as.

Generosity – This is the core Christian value of being KIND and unselfish,

"The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor." – Proverbs 22:9

Love – Love is a fundamental characteristic of who God is and it’s a value that is to describe His children as well.

"We love because he first loved us." – 1 John 4:19

Respect – A Christian value is to be conscious that God has created all people in His image. As a response, we show respect to all.

"Show proper RESPECT to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor." – 1 Peter 2:17

And so on.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, turns out that Biden not only cheated to "win" this election (before Trump's legal team has most of the illegal votes thrown out), Obama and him may have cheated back in 2012 as well.
> 
> Straight from the dementia-ridden, child-sniffing, horse's mouth:



Taken out of context.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...s-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH

"Missing context. This clip of Biden allegedly “admitting” to voter fraud has been shared out of context. As seen in the full interview, the former vice president was discussing his campaign’s voter protection program."


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> does that mean that you will leave the country now that the "evil" choice has won?



Lesser of two evil hyperbole aside, if the alphabet snowflake marxist society actually believe all the tripe they say about America, Trump & his supporters I don't know why they stay in such a unsafe place for them.  I'm sure their parents would spring for bus fare to canada just to get the basement cleared out.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 21, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The point is all the trump supporters claim to be good Christian folks.



No "good Christian" claims to be so.  I'm not posting a source.  I'm hoping people can use their brains.  High hopes, right?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 21, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:
			
		

> Taken out of context.
> https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...s-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH
> 
> "Missing context. This clip of Biden allegedly “admitting” to voter fraud has been shared out of context. As seen in the full interview, the former vice president was discussing his campaign’s voter protection program."



Now you understand how Trump supporters feel about how the leftist media reports fake news. There's 4 years of this type of fabricated bullshit and most of it is lying about Trump saying something or doing something he didn't say, do or meant. I'd be upset if it wasn't exactly what needs to happen to Liberals. Payback is a bitch. We should have 4 years of fake news, but due to the integrity of right leaning news sources this type of garbage rarely gets published by them. Now you just understand what 99.9% of the Liberal news outlets are doing when it comes to honest reporting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> No "good Christian" claims to be so.  I'm not posting a source.  I'm hoping people can use their brains.  High hopes, right?



Good Christians know they are sinners and are humble while the bad ones go about bragging about themselves. We're all sinners. No one is perfect. It's just the group (liberals) that willingly embrace sin are the ones who are evil to the core.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Good Christian know they are sinners and are humble while the bad ones go about bragging about themselves. We're all sinners. No one is perfect. It's just the group (liberals) that willingly embrace sin are the ones who are trouble.



It's a good thing that a Christian does, but no Christian is "good".  Nobody is good.  

Luke 18:19 - "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's a good thing that a Christian does, but no Christian is "good".  Nobody is good.
> 
> Luke 18:19 - "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."



I thought I made that clear in my original comments. Everyone is a sinner. What cracks me up is people with no faith trying to tell people with faith what they should do or how to think. That's something that's between you and God to figure out ... not some random asshole who thinks they can tell you what to do.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I thought I made that clear in my original comments. Everyone is a sinner. What cracks me up is people with no faith trying to tell people with faith what they should do or how to think. That's something that's between you and God to figure out ... not some random asshole who thinks they can tell you what to do.


Yeah, I just think the idea of a "Good Christian" is the typical preamble of someone telling people how to think and what to do.  Just wanted toss that dirty water before someone decided to bathe in it.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Now you understand how Trump supporters feel about how the leftist media reports fake news. There's 4 years of this type of fabricated bullshit and most of it is lying about Trump saying something or doing something he didn't say, do or meant. I'd be upset if it wasn't exactly what needs to happen to Liberals. Payback is a bitch. We should have 4 years of fake news, but due to the integrity of right leaning news sources this type of garbage rarely gets published by them. Now you just understand what 99.9% of the Liberal news outlets are doing when it comes to honest reporting..


The only people who actively support misleading/"fake" news is media organizations and social media companies. They have to make their paycheck somehow. Misleading Info is the enemy of the 21st Century, and hurts both sides. Fake News also isn't suddenly a new thing under Trump (Trump and his supporters call everything not pro-Trump fake anyways, but that's besides the point). 

And, if anything, right wing media is even WORSE than mainstream media organizations in terms of actual fake news. The crazy shit that farther-right wing organizations peddle is comedy.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If the election process gets stalled, we will be living in this topic for the rest of our lives.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> That's a hypothetical @monkeyman4412



Even if Biden is somehow inaugurated in January consider that the beginning, this isn't a election issue.  This is the collapse of the United States as we know it, I don't know exactly what will emerge, whether it will be better or worst but I am confident about what's coming.

Most older conservatives with jobs and responsibilities are generally content working in the system, there has been a shift and people that normally are not so are becoming militant.  Lines are getting crossed, people are viewing kids like Kyle Rittenhouse as political prisoners.

ANTIFA is going to show up to scream on the wrong persons lawn one night, the Biden administration is going to hit the wrong button with people who are already fed up and it is all going to pop off.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> The only people who actively support misleading/"fake" news is media organizations and social media companies. They have to make their paycheck somehow. Misleading Info is the enemy of the 21st Century, and hurts both sides. Fake News also isn't suddenly a new thing under Trump (Trump and his supporters call everything not pro-Trump fake anyways, but that's besides the point).
> 
> And, if anything, right wing media is even WORSE than mainstream media organizations in terms of actual fake news. The crazy shit that farther-right wing organizations peddle is comedy.



Fake news isn't even a thing, I mean half these idiots are fact checking jokes and memes.   The whole reason we even have the term is cognitive dissonance because the left needed a explanation how anyone could hate such a charming caring demonic bitch from the pitts of hell like Hillary Clinton.   "The russians lied and despite 30 years in public life convinced everyone HRC was a bad person in 3 months".  The constant cries of sexism wasn't shaming anyone to voting for the hag so they needed a new angle.


----------



## notimp (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Even if Biden is somehow inaugurated in January consider that the beginning, this isn't a election issue. This is the collapse of the United States as we know it, I don't know exactly what will emerge, whether it will be better or worst but I am confident about what's coming.
> 
> Most older conservatives with jobs and responsibilities are generally content working in the system, there has been a shift and people that normally are not so are becoming militant. Lines are getting crossed, people are viewing kids like Kyle Rittenhouse as political prisoners.
> 
> ANTIFA is going to show up to scream on the wrong persons lawn one night, the Biden administration is going to hit the wrong button with people who are already fed up and it is all going to pop off.


Strange view you have there.

A person running amok a 'political prisoner'? Strange friends you have there... Person running amok will be shunned for life. No one will ever talk about them again - if you are not in circles secretely worshiping them.

Ok, here is the deal. In the US institutions are everything, and president doesnt means anything. So nothing will change, on most structural issues, if dems dont win the senate which is unlikely.

'Antifa' is mostly active in I think two cities in the US, where disillusioned millennials that tried to get a new start, had migrated to for lower rent prices, and pretty much non existent in the rest of the country.

The 'defund the police' slogan of black lives matter didnt go over well with the electorate at all, so pretty much nothing along those lines will change.

And overall you'll have an epidemic and the fallout from that to deal with, witch - if saudi arabia is an indicator for US policy wont have much to do with 'climate investing' either.

The Biden administration will fail in most 'bilateral' policy attempts apart from international deals (where both parties, basically stand shoulder to shoulder).

And thats basically it.

Millennials will not matter as long as boomers dont vote for a more progressive outlook - like in the rest of the western world.

China will go into a phase of domestic growth, and asian pacific trade deals - which probably brings Europe and the US closer together again (still with a loosing economic importance trajectory - but maybe not as fast). UK is anyones guess by now... (The only true remains of populist nationalism in the western world.)

New perspective? Apart from the usual - slim to none. I cant even imagine, that progressives, or the sunrise movement get to cash in on identity politics - and get anything of value in return.

Next remotely exciting aspect should be what republicans plan for 2022 and later - and maybe how AOC is positioned. Apart from that its politics of the old guard.

Oh yes, and Trump changed nothing in respect to the old system. Literally nothing. He even appointed all the judges the GOP wanted him to appoint. Made a friend with a North Korean dictator, then cut that relationship. Have I missed something? Oh yeah, trade deals. Mexico will be more important trading partner, india still is interesting in terms of growth rate, so will be held on the backburner. The middle east strategy we know already. Russia basically won every proxy battle they were in - and now is happy. Europe basically still has not much of a perspective, which might or might not be problematic...

Domestic issue in the US - sure the left and the right will drift apart more - but as long as you still can hold elections on 'I will not kill you' vs. 'you know what you get with me' - I think society finds that quite optimal? Also at least you now have a guy at the helm thats claiming that he will mend camps. So it probably will feel better?

More virtue signaling from corp. Far more virtue signaling from corp. Yes, and apart from that we have to see what comes next.

Infrastructure investments (paid for by the state), probably not in the next four years - at least not in significant amounts, that would change the economic outlook.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Taken out of context.
> https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...s-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH
> 
> "Missing context. This clip of Biden allegedly “admitting” to voter fraud has been shared out of context. As seen in the full interview, the former vice president was discussing his campaign’s voter protection program."



Well, if Biden was your candidate, then you should have followed his lead and pushed to "re-elect Donald Trump" like he said.



Of course, you know he was running for Senate the whole time:



I find it ridiculous that the left stream media is always taking Trump's words out of context, but we are supposed to decipher Joe's rambling about nonsense and not take it literally.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, if Biden was your candidate, then you should have followed his lead and pushed to "re-elect Donald Trump" like he said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ur sad..


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Ur sad..


No, I'm quite happy.  Happy that my president is going to have a smooth transition into his 2nd term.  Trump 2020 & 2024!!!  MAGA!!!


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Nov 21, 2020)

*page 62 of 123*

Oh boy, here I go reading the bullshit again!  Stop wasting your time arguing with people on the internet to people who will disregard EVERYTHING you try to tell them. Their mind is set and they will just double down on propaganda pundits that support their opinion even if there is zero evidence with constant lies that they like to hear.

Just stop. They are a lost cause. You cannot save them

You. *Cannot.* Reason. With. *Stupid.*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> No, I'm quite happy.  Happy that my president is going to have a smooth transition into his 2nd term.  Trump 2020 & 2024!!!  MAGA!!!


..I hope you get the help you need.. mental illness is no joke .. God bless you during your hardship


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ..I hope you get the help you need.. mental illness is no joke .. God bless you during your hardship


Oh, don't worry.  I'll have all the help I need by Dec 14th at the latest.  You'll see what I mean.  My cure is leftist tears, and I have a feeling that my cup will run over with that sweet salty nectar.  I'll save a spot for you near the front of the line for you to share, so please don't waste them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



stanleyopar2000 said:


> *page 62 of 123*
> 
> Oh boy, here I go reading the bullshit again!  Stop wasting your time arguing with people on the internet to people who will disregard EVERYTHING you try to tell them. Their mind is set and they will just double down on propaganda pundits that support their opinion even if there is zero evidence with constant lies that they like to hear.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with you, but these leftists are living in a fantasy world forced upon them through Twitter, the public school system, and the lame stream media.  They need people to drop truth bombs on them to keep them tethered to the earth.   Thanks for your concern, though.  I'll be fine.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> My cure is leftist tears


Too bad all of us are laughing at your dumb asses right now, then.

All your posts since Trump was declared LOSER exude this energy big time:


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Too bad all of us are laughing at your dumb asses right now, then.
> 
> All your posts since Trump was declared LOSER exude this energy big time:



Oh, no, please understand, my dear friend.  I want you to be happy and get all hyped for a Harris.. I mean... a Biden administration because then your tears will be tainted with all that despair you're all going to suffer from once Trump is declared the winner that will only make them sweeter.

If you folks decide to ignore all the evidence and odd happenings, then you can only blame yourselves for what happens.  Of course, I bet you'll still blame white men and black Trump supporters for all your issues.


----------



## DKB (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, no, please understand, my dear friend.  I want you to be happy and get all hyped for a Harris.. I mean... a Biden administration because then your tears will be tainted with all that despair you're all going to suffer from once Trump is declared the winner.
> 
> If you folks decide to ignore all the evidence and odd happenings, then you can only blame yourselves for what happens.  Of course, I bet you'll still blame white men and black Trump supporters for all your issues.



who gives a shit

why are you dick riding a 74 year old that doesn't even know you exist


----------



## Xzi (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> once Trump is declared the winner.









Either you know you're full of shit or the hit is gonna be that much harder when Biden is inaugurated.  And I'll be right there ready to drink more than my fair share of rightie tears.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, no, please understand, my dear friend.  I want you to be happy and get all hyped for a Harris.. I mean... a Biden administration because then your tears will be tainted with all that despair you're all going to suffer from once Trump is declared the winner that will only make them sweeter.
> 
> If you folks decide to ignore all the evidence and odd happenings, then you can only blame yourselves for what happens.  Of course, I bet you'll still blame white men and black Trump supporters for all your issues.



why would a Harris administration be bad?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, no, please understand, my dear friend.  I want you to be happy and get all hyped for a Harris.. I mean... a Biden administration because then your tears will be tainted with all that despair you're all going to suffer from once Trump is declared the winner that will only make them sweeter.
> 
> If you folks decide to ignore all the evidence and odd happenings, then you can only blame yourselves for what happens.  Of course, I bet you'll still blame white men and black Trump supporters for all your issues.


God bless you, have you talked to your pastor about your condition.. I hear many men your age get it and end up just fine with some medication,


----------



## SG854 (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Because the "Debunk" is always "it is not statistically significant" regardless of how many examples are cited or "I don't trust any source claim, witness, or affidavit from a person right of Stalin, come back with a source of a person whose face is literally a hammer & sickle".
> 
> Your partisan rejection as "that doesn't matter" or "I am not going to investigate that claim because I don't care" is not debunking.
> 
> ...


You should dedicate this meme to @Xzi

He backed the Russian Collusion rigging election to help Trump


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Either you know you're full of shit or the hit is gonna be that much harder when Biden is inaugurated. And I'll be right there ready to drink more than my fair share of rightie tears.


  Ok, if you're sure that your side was that good at cheating (even though they really screwed up this time).



omgcat said:


> why would a Harris administration be bad?


 Oh, I would need to create a blog to even begin with that one.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Ok, if you're sure that your side was that good at cheating (even though they really screwed up this time).


If "my side" had cheated, Bernie Sanders would have won every state, and Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham certainly wouldn't still be in the Senate.  I'll gladly take Trump supporters crying about the results of the presidential election while conveniently accepting the results of the Senate elections as a consolation prize, though.  That shit's pretty hilarious.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

djpannda said:


> God bless you, have you talked to your pastor about your condition.. I hear many men your age get it and end up just fine with some medication,


My Pastor, Jessie Lee Peterson???  No, it's hard to get in on his call in line as he's getting more and more popular everyday.  I think you need to concern yourself with Biden's condition of dementia and losing a fourth presidential run that he cheated in.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> If "my side" had cheated, Bernie Sanders would have won every state, and Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham certainly wouldn't still be in the Senate.  I'll gladly take Trump supporters crying about the results of the presidential election while conveniently accepting the results of the Senate elections as a consolation prize, though.  That shit's pretty hilarious.


  By your side, I meant the "mush brains" that can't do anything on their own unless someone in the media tells them how to think and would vote for Biden as you're inundated with "orange man bad, orange man bad" when he's really not that bad.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 21, 2020)

You know what @jimbo13 posted a great fuckin meme dems says that Russian interfered to help Trump win 2016, now they claim rigging is very hard to do and Biden won fair.

So that means they were wrong about Trumps 2016 victory and there was no collusion. Or if they say there was collusion then they have to accept that its possible to rig the 2020 election. There's really inconsistencies in their arguments.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> By your side, I meant the "mush brains" that can't do anything on their own unless someone in the media tells them how to think


Hopefully you realized you were describing just as many Trump supporters here as Democrats, if not more.  It was media that got you to vote for him in the first place, he was literally on every network in 2016.  



morvoran said:


> he's really not that bad


"C'mon guys it's only a quarter of a million dead.  If he had killed a million US citizens, then _MAYBE_ I could understand voting him out."  If conservatives all want to drive their cars off a fucking cliff, that's their business.  They don't need to bring the rest of the country with them.



SG854 said:


> You know what @jimbo13 posted a great fuckin meme dems says that Russian interfered to help Trump win 2016, now they claim rigging is very hard to do and Biden won fair.


I know you aren't this stupid.  Every US intelligence agency made a joint statement declaring there was interference with the 2016 election.  Those same agencies all said 2020 was one of the most secure elections we've ever held.  Along with both Republican and Democrat elections experts.  The only holdouts are Trump and those being directly influenced by him.  Don't be one of those easy-to-con bootlickers.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

omgcat said:


> why would a Harris administration be bad?



Here's a starter,



I am not really interested in the draconian drug warrior who bragged about locking homeless people up spending 4 years being a professional SJW victim anytime she is criticized.

I am not voting for anyone who will use Sex/race/phobic cards as a defense when I say they are a piece of shit human being.  I'll just stick to white male candidates and skip the thought crime debates.

Not to mention the streets of her *district is literally covered with human feces*, or how bout the sanctuary city policies that allowed innocent Americans to be murdered.

This is Kate Steinle, Kamala Harris's policies released her 7 time felon murderer back on the streets.  "Cause MEH DREAMERZ".

Unlike George Floyd she wasn't doing anything, wasn't a crackhead or counterfeiting money or resisting arrest.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Say her name.*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Ok, if you're sure that your side was that good at cheating (even though they really screwed up this time).
> 
> Oh, I would need to create a blog to even begin with that one.


Are you taking the pills or applying the ointment? I hear you only have to use it when you break out.. are you taking you temperature?  Just remember no glove no love.. and if the bumps pop make sure you don’t play with it


----------



## SG854 (Nov 21, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Hopefully you realized you were describing just as many Trump supporters here as Democrats, if not more.  It was media that got you to vote for him in the first place, he was literally on every network in 2016.
> 
> 
> "C'mon guys it's only a quarter of a million dead.  If he had killed a million US citizens, then _MAYBE_ I could understand voting him out."  If conservatives all want to drive their cars off a fucking cliff, that's their business.  They don't need to bring the rest of the country with them.
> ...


Ok I believe you. I haven't kept up with this election as much as the 2016 one. So according to some articles I just read right now they put in more secure ways to combat voter fraud because of 2016 trauma they had.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Are you taking the pills or applying the ointment? I hear you only have to use it when you break out.. are you taking you temperature?  Just remember no glove no love.. and if the bumps pop make sure you don’t play with it


Ok, I finally see your argument.  I can't believe that I thought Biden would ever lose after reading that masterpiece you wasted my time with that deserved likes from the other mush brains on here.  Don't you have any more poor neighborhoods to burn down or black Trump supporters to harass?  Or are you just waiting for Trump to be announced the winner before you go back to your racism and rioting.

Anyways, I'm getting off of here.  Just remember to follow your dreams and anything can happen, except the dream of Biden winning as that isn't going to happen.


----------



## Sapphire01 (Nov 21, 2020)

Imagine asking for a recount and losing.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Ok, I finally see your argument.  I can't believe that I thought Biden would ever lose after reading that masterpiece you wasted my time with that deserved likes from the other mush brains on here.  Don't you have any more poor neighborhoods to burn down or black Trump supporters to harass?  Or are you just waiting for Trump to be announced the winner before you go back to your racism and rioting.
> 
> Anyways, I'm getting off of here.  Just remember to follow your dreams and anything can happen, except the dream of Biden winning as that isn't going to happen.


Oh shoot have you notified all you partners .. many states have laws About willing transmitting .. just remember it does not make any less of a man


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

All fraud side, The supreme court is going to hand Trump Pennsylvania.

You know why?  The only people who had the legal authority to allow mail in voting was the state senate, they didn't do it.  A Democratic partisan did, outside the scope of their authority.

Karma's been walking around with a hardon for Joe Biden waiting 30 years to blow this load.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Ok, I finally see your argument.  I can't believe that I thought Biden would ever lose after reading that masterpiece you wasted my time with that deserved likes from the other mush brains on here.  Don't you have any more poor neighborhoods to burn down or black Trump supporters to harass?  Or are you just waiting for Trump to be announced the winner before you go back to your racism and rioting.
> 
> Anyways, I'm getting off of here.  Just remember to follow your dreams and anything can happen, except the dream of Biden winning as that isn't going to happen.


You are stupid dude. You are a mindless drone that doesn't think for themselves. 

The fact you said this and being serious about it without knowing anything about the person, & they probably never rioted in their entire life _"Don't you have any more poor neighborhoods to burn down or black Trump supporters to harass?  Or are you just waiting for Trump to be announced the winner before you go back to your racism and rioting."_

That shows to me you are not arguing in good faith. You are launching generic broad assumptions at the person. You are not debating the person, what you did was create a false image in your head what the person is like and arguing with that fake imaginary thing you created. That is not treating the person as an individual, that is generalizing a person which never moves the debate forward.

Even posting articles published in 2015 claiming about fraud in the 2020 election. That some how peoples votes in a 2015 election magically transcended time and affected the 2020 election. 

And the fact that this doesn't wake you up to the fact that maybe I'm not reading the articles I post, maybe what I know is just surface level clickbait headlines without getting into the details myself. Maybe I should rethink my position. It's just sad dude. Its pathetic. You are not adapting to your environment. You stopped evolving and growing as a person. You are stuck in a broken record state. Only to shit out what you've been fed without thinking about it.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 21, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The lesser of two evils is still an evil. If you thought that both choices were bad, you should have left the country.



a pile of crap has more humanity than trump so


morvoran said:


> Ok, I finally see your argument.  I can't believe that I thought Biden would ever lose after reading that masterpiece you wasted my time with that deserved likes from the other mush brains on here.  Don't you have any more poor neighborhoods to burn down or black Trump supporters to harass?  Or are you just waiting for Trump to be announced the winner before you go back to your racism and rioting.
> 
> Anyways, I'm getting off of here.  Just remember to follow your dreams and anything can happen, except the dream of Biden winning as that isn't going to happen.




just remember main stream media airing the apprentice made this man baby possible so  He can whine about fake news all he wants just remember he literally came from fake news


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

tiamat999 said:


> a pile of crap has more humanity than trump so just remember main stream media airing the apprentice made this man baby possible so  He can whine about fake news all he wants just remember he literally came from fake news



Trump was a famous prominent business man for 20 years before the Apprentice debuted, his family was as famous as the Kennedys or Romneys.

And I'd put Trumps humanity over a do-nothing warmonger who has voted for every war in the last 40 years and plans on sending the troops back that Trump brought home.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> That should apply to the miserable Liberals on this board who after 4 years still can't name 1 positive thing Trump did


I got a few: Trump axed the TPP. He fired John Bolton. He de-escalated with North Korea. Three very good things.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I got a few: Trump axed the TPP. He fired John Bolton. He de-escalated with North Korea. Three very good things.



Looks the Trumps signature on the Veterans choice act, effectively making sure our Troops get decent medical care after everyone else including Joe Biden jerked off about it for the last 40 years.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 21, 2020)

omgcat said:


> why would a Harris administration be bad?


Kamala Harris as AG of California neglected to prosecute Steve Mnuchin for foreclosing on people in a criminal manner, but advocated for keeping people in jail on technicalities because the prison needed labor. She's a scumfuck. 

"Better than Trump" is a low bar, and Harris will show you just how low it is.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> I got a few: Trump axed the TPP. He fired John Bolton. He de-escalated with North Korea. Three very good things.


I'll name another, aid to 9/11 first responders


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Looks the Trumps signature on the Veterans choice act, effectively making sure our Troops get decent medical care after everyone else including Joe Biden jerked off about it for the last 40 years.


That shit is ass. Single payer or gtfo



SG854 said:


> I'll name another, aid to 9/11 first responders


Remember Rand Paul delaying that because 'muh big govvermat'? Good times.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Trump was a famous prominent business man for 20 years before the Apprentice debuted, his family was as famous as the Kennedys or Romneys.
> 
> And I'd put Trumps humanity over a do-nothing warmonger who has voted for every war in the last 40 years and plans on sending the troops back that Trump brought home.




nah his family's more like Kardashian loved for the wrong reasons


----------



## SG854 (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> That shit is ass. Single payer or gtfo
> 
> 
> Remember Rand Paul delaying that because 'muh big govvermat'? Good times.


God Dammit well that wasn't done without controversy.
How in the hell does Trump fuck up many good things he does.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ma...m-911-first-responders-fund-report-2020-09-11


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 21, 2020)

Well have fun trump cult just don't hurt anybody or drink anything that he could be handing out at future mags protests


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> That shit is ass. Single payer or gtfo
> 
> 
> Remember Rand Paul delaying that because 'muh big govvermat'? Good times.




Has nothing to do with single payer (which I support by the way).  Veterans already get free healthcare, before Trumps VA reform they had to go through the VA hospitals which are cesspools, Trump made it so they can go to any hospital.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 21, 2020)

SG854 said:


> God Dammit well that wasn't done without controversy.
> How in the hell does Trump fuck up many good things he does.
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ma...m-911-first-responders-fund-report-2020-09-11



well he's not that smart


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Kamala Harris as AG of California neglected to prosecute Steve Mnuchin for foreclosing on people in a criminal manner, but advocated for keeping people in jail on technicalities because the prison needed labor. She's a scumfuck.
> 
> "Better than Trump" is a low bar, and Harris will show you just how low it is.



Lets not forget one of  Obama/Bidens administrations first acts in office was to allow computerized automated foreclosures to continue, retroactively making them legal.  Which they weren't, a foreclosure is supposed to require a court hearing and subject to due process.

If they hadn't allowed automated foreclosures the banks logistically would of never been able to seize all the houses in 2008.


----------



## vincentx77 (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Looks the Trumps signature on the Veterans choice act, effectively making sure our Troops get decent medical care after everyone else including Joe Biden jerked off about it for the last 40 years.


Now, let's talk bullshit. The Veterans Choice Act was passed by Obama in 2014. It greatly increased the care that Veterans received from the VA, and started hold them accountable to actual standards. It also allowed some provisions for veterans to receive health care from outside hospitals when they had issues using the VA. Trump expanded this by alllowing Veterans access to outside care if the veterans clinicians determined that it would be in the best interest of the vet to have the procedure or follow-up performed outside of the VA. That is a HUGE difference than giving vets carte-blanche to use any provider they want. It's also interesting that nearly all of the groundwork for this was laid during the Obama administration. That should surprise no one who has been paying attention, though. All Trump has done is try to take credit for Obama's accomplishments. Trump isn't going to get these states overturned, and in 2 months, he's not going to be the president. The vote was fair and legit. It's really time to shut the fuck up and hop aboard the Biden train. After all, that's what most of you were telling us to do 4 years ago.


----------



## CORE (Nov 21, 2020)

Joe can still sniff through the Mask dont be fooled people.


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 21, 2020)

CORE said:


> Joe can still sniff through the Mask dont be fooled people.



Cool


----------



## DKB (Nov 21, 2020)

I did hear that Harris was a real bitch. I did research and fell upon this comment from reddit:

"
Who told you she is hated? She has a higher net favourability than Elizabeth Warren and is currently polling as the overwhelming favourite by voters, black voters and Hispanic voters for VP. And who told you she “only” has haters? You’re blinded by the overwhelmingly white/male/Bernie leaning demographic of Reddit. She has a psssionate base of followers called the KHive made of a multiracial coalition of black women, south Asian women, LGBT people, white allies and Latinx people. They helped her raise 3.5M in her Biden fundraiser and they passionately advocate for her, make her senate floor moments go viral and push back against disinformation on her behalf.

The perspective you’re describing is not representative of Democratic party members or black people at large. Sounds like disgruntled Bernout purists who have bought the smears peddled by his surrogates. I’ll copy and paste a comment I’ve posted a whole bunch of times about why she has a very good record and why she’d be as good a pick as any:

Reddit and faux-progressive media have a hate boner for Kamala in particular. The entire ‘Kamala is an evil centrist cop who locked up more black people than any one ever!!!1’ is largely a political smear from her primary opponents and is not at all representative of her actual record.

She votes more progressive in the senate than the usual leftist faves (only behind Ed Markey): https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate and she dramatically reduced incarceration rates for marijuana during her tenure (https://twitter.com/pierceah66/status/1270414069376434180?s=21 ). Please note Bernie Sanders has never passed a bill he authored on police reform, immigration or equality rights, but did vote for the Crime Bill and Iraq War, so why he’s held as the standard for insane purity tests I will never understand.

Against strong pushback, Harris always refused to pursue the death penalty and she instituted the Back on Track program with 10% reoffence rate that was so successful it’s been instituted nationwide. She arguably had the most left platform of any candidate on immigration - as a child of immigrants herself-, black healthcare and has always worked to protect California as a sanctuary state. Contrary to the disinformation campaign against her, she never once threw a single parent in jail for truancy and instead improved attendance rate for low-income kids by 20%, improving their standards of living, food and potential for further education. She won important cases against big banks that rewarded residents in California, cleared the rape kit backlog she inherited and successfully protected sex workers and child sex abuse victims better than any of her predecessors. She was marrying same-sex couples long before it was recognised nationwide. You can read more of her actual, evidence-backed record here: https://medium.com/@blackwomenviews...accomplishments-by-kamala-harris-cf314eeaad2e.

By sweeping the DA, AG and senate elections in California (the 5th largest economy in the world) all on her first attempts, she is technically the most accomplished black female elected official in the United States and one of the most accomplished black female politicians in the world.

Recent polls eg http://filesforprogress.org/dataset...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://, www.csdd.northwestern.edu/documents/csdd-survey-results_black-voters-on-black-woman-vp-poll_june-2020.pdf, https://news.northwestern.edu/stori...unning-mate-favored-for-vice-president-biden/ and https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...-harris-for-vp-by-wide-margin-poll-finds/amp/ show she has strong support in the party. A-rated pollster YouGov’s most recent polling actually shows Harris is the most favored among all voters (Harris 24%, Warren 18%, Abrams 9%), among black voters (Harris 21%, Warren 19%, Abrams 14%) and Latinx voters (Harris 37%, Warren 16%, Abrams 6%) for VP. Source; https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/cjd35jrh5o/econTabReport.pdf. It’s interesting to note the vast majority of black people have always polled at a majority for any black female VP, even though Warren was the specific favourite (mostly due to name recognition). The data also suggests the black turnout and Hispanic enthusiasm will be greater with a black woman on the ticket.

Why is this important? Because white people haven’t voted a democrat for president in decades, but black women voted 94% for Hillary Clinton. She lost partly because enthusiasm among black voters was down sharply. If we as black women are saying we will more enthusiastically and collectively vote if this woman is chosen, it is very valid for us to be listened to. Also, Hispanic voters is the only sector Biden is currently lagging behind Clinton on. Bakari Sellers illustrates this point using his mother here: https://twitter.com/firinglineshow/status/1273284266600755200?s=21.

In the last few months, she has become even more present in the media discussing reform in law enforcement to protect vulnerable communities and debunking misunderstandings about defund the police (a stance she has had since 2006: https://twitter.com/adamjsmithga/status/1269761430322139136?s=21 ). She actually over-represents in favorability among black voters (the Democratic party’s most important demographic for turnout) compared with Warren who has near-universal name recognition.

Harris also has a personal relationship with the Biden family as she was friends with his son Beau before he died. The clash during the primaries over bussing has reportedly been shaken off not just by Joe but also Jill who likes Kamala: https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2...is-early-biden-vice-president-favorite-248615.

The faux-progressive parts of left-Reddit will tell you choosing her as VP is “tokenistic” and “identity politics”, erasing her accomplishments and real record. To my dismay as a black woman who identifies as quite far-left, I have realized a lot of “progressives” who supported Bernie and even Warren believe class subsumes race and you cannot be progressive, involved in justice and God forbid be POC at the same time. It also shows they don’t understand how important representation is to us black people and also they are steeped in misogynoir.

Is she perfect? No. She was working in an imperfect system as AG and DA and arguably should have pushed even harder. But she did much much more than her predecessors, inspired many other POC and women in DA and AG positions to go even further than she did and has spent her entire time as a legislator pushing for reform and progressive change that makes it easier. She is beloved among progressive reformers (many she mentored) in different state and district offices in the country for this reason. Activists and critics have also walked back their unfair attacks on her from the primaries (including fraud Shaun King who peddled an insane lie that she had framed his friend for murder): https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/06/07/kamala-harris-biden-criminal-justice-reform-304534 and https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/Spotlight-on-Kamala-Harris-exposes-solitude-of-15353787.php.

I wish people would do the smallest bit of independent research into the woman she is. The “Kamala is moderate, she’s a token, shes hated, she’s just a cop” narrative on Reddit is reductive." - AvaRobertEko from Reddit.

I don't even know what to think of her.


----------



## CORE (Nov 21, 2020)

The Dung Beetle Eats the Feces off others and in turn eats its own Feces kind of like the way Bidens Presidency.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

vincentx77 said:


> Now, let's talk bullshit. The Veterans Choice Act was passed by Obama in 2014. It greatly increased the care that Veterans received from the VA, and started hold them accountable to actual standards. It also allowed some provisions for veterans to receive health care from outside hospitals when they had issues using the VA. Trump expanded this by alllowing Veterans access to outside care if the veterans clinicians determined that it would be in the best interest of the vet to have the procedure or follow-up performed outside of the VA. That is a HUGE difference than giving vets carte-blanche to use any provider they want. It's also interesting that nearly all of the groundwork for this was laid during the Obama administration. That should surprise no one who has been paying attention, though. All Trump has done is try to take credit for Obama's accomplishments. Trump isn't going to get these states overturned, and in 2 months, he's not going to be the president. The vote was fair and legit. It's really time to shut the fuck up and hop aboard the Biden train. After all, that's what most of you were telling us to do 4 years ago.




*Fact check:   *S.2372 - VA MISSION Act of 2018  was signed in to law by Donald J Trump.   Barack Obama was not president in 2018.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/2372/text

And if you think anyone is hoping on the Biden train after the last 4 years of nonsense from the left you're delusional.

The rights geared up to _*"peacefully protest"*_ the whole country to the ground.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> -- empty chatter snipped --
> 
> The media doesn’t get to call elections, the actual people who vote do. We’ve had 4 years of Trump exposing the leftist medias lies so this situation isn’t surprising,* it just goes to show how stupid you and your side are*.
> 
> You don’t count your chickens until they hatch even if you’ve been watching them develop using x-rays.


-* Ad hominum attacks* won't reduce Biden's 306 electors down to 268.
- Your pedantic 360 word essay *failed* to cite a single probable path to victory for Trump. 
- You *conveniently ignored* Trump's November 2016 tweet, where he claimed a landslide Electoral College victory weeks ahead of the electors casting their ballots.
- You're among a handful of people on here *who* *have no business* criticizing someone else's intelligence.


----------



## vincentx77 (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check:   *S.2372 - VA MISSION Act of 2018  was signed in to law by Donald J Trump.   Barack Obama was not president in 2018.
> 
> https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/2372/text


Allow me to repeat the pertinent parts of my post again
"Trump expanded this by alllowing Veterans access to outside care if the veterans clinicians determined that it would be in the best interest of the vet to have the procedure or follow-up performed outside of the VA. That is a HUGE difference than giving vets carte-blanche to use any provider they want. It's also interesting that nearly all of the groundwork for this was laid during the Obama administration."
I must apologize. I actually gave Trump credit for accomplishing something in my original post. He copied Obama's 2014 bill, put his name on it, and pretended he did something. That's all he's done for 4 years, btw. Just pretend to do stuff. And dumbasses out there eat it up with a spoon.



jimbo13 said:


> And if you think anyone is hoping on the Biden train after the last 4 years of nonsense from the left you're delusional.
> 
> The rights geared up to _*"peacefully protest"*_ the whole country to the ground.



You need to grow the fuck up. You're threatening violence because you didn't get your way in a national election. Keep it up and there will be a prison cell somewhere with your name on it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 21, 2020)

People bash Trump and call him stupid, but he isn't stupid at all.  Let's look at the two possibilities:

1.  He is right, and is able to prove that the democratic process is broken--becomes the savior of democracy.

2.  He fails, proving himself to have conned his way into Presidency, proving that the democratic process is broken.

He really cannot fail.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

vincentx77 said:


> ::partisan rambling contrary to the facts::



*Fact check: *S.2372 - VA MISSION Act of 2018 was signed in to law by Donald J Trump. Barack Obama was not president in 2018.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/2372/text




> You need to grow the fuck up. You're threatening violence because you didn't get your way in a national election. Keep it up and there will be a prison cell somewhere with your name on it.



I am not threatening anything,  As someone who is generally backing a third party or dark horse I never get my way in a national election.  If I had my way Saint Paul would be finishing his third term and handing the reigns over to Gary Johnson.

My prediction is we are going to see substantive civil unrest starting with Biden trying too lock everyone down at home while he redeploys the troops Trump brought home.


There isn't room for MAGA on the Biden Train and no one is interested in the ride,   You know we have a record setting ammo shortage?   People are buying up .226 like it's toilet paper in march.

And we don't have violence in this country, we have "Mostly peaceful protests".  These people are not getting on the Biden train, and they got your memo about Biden allegedly winning.   -They don't care.


----------



## vincentx77 (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check: *S.2372 - VA MISSION Act of 2018 was signed in to law by Donald J Trump. Barack Obama was not president in 2018.
> 
> https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/2372/text




Just because you keep spouting that bullshit doesn't make it any truer. I can't argue that Trump signed a bill into law in 2018. All I can say is that nearly every aspect of it was already law. He also signed a bill that gave protections for people with pre-existing conditions. That bill did absolutely nothing? Why? Because it was part of the affordable care act passed by Obama years earlier.



jimbo13 said:


> I am not threatening anything,  As someone who is generally backing a third party or dark horse I never get my way in a national election.  If I had my way Saint Paul would be finishing his third term and handing the reigns over to Gary Johnson.
> 
> My prediction is we are going to see substantive civil unrest starting with Biden trying too lock everyone down at home while he redeploys the troops Trump brought home.
> 
> ...



This is what happens when you separate a cult from their leader. And yes, you're most certainly issuing a veiled threat of violence when you claim they're going to have "peaceful protests" because of the last 4 years of nonsense from the left.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

vincentx77 said:


> Just because you keep spouting that bullshit doesn't make it any truer. I can't argue that Trump signed a bill into law in 2018. All I can say is that nearly every aspect of it was already law. He also signed a bill that gave protections for people with pre-existing conditions. That bill did absolutely nothing? Why? Because it was part of the affordable care act passed by Obama years earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you separate a cult from their leader. And yes, you're most certainly issuing a veiled threat of violence when you claim they're going to have "peaceful protests" because of the last 4 years of nonsense from the left.



The nearest large population center to me is Boise, Idaho which is a 9 hour drive.  The last thing I am doing is plowing through the snow for two days in January to go bear spray college kids with blue hair and a nose ring.  (Even if it is hilarious)

That said, I know when a crack head gets shot by the police resisting arrest there will be mostly peaceful protests.

I know when Biden tries to impose lock downs and push his nonsense there will be mostly peaceful protests.

Being able to observe and predict the obvious has nothing to do with me, stop trying to collect your professional victim currency.  No one is threatening you so shut the fuck up with that.  Go start a gofundme and see if people will get you some ass cream.


----------



## vincentx77 (Nov 21, 2020)

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. I never said you threatened me. I said your post was threatening violence. Technically speaking, you're threatening deadly force until you physically attack someone with a weapon. I'm not even sure why you're talking about a Biden lockdown anyway. Frontline workers are supposed to start receiving the vaccine next month, and more vulnerable populations starting around February and March.
There probably won't need to be another full scale lockdown. Biden has never said that he wanted that, but would listen to the scientists if necessary. Please lay off the facebook conspiracy websites. They're just making you crazy. And victim currency? You're just being pathetic now.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

vincentx77 said:


> Jesus tap-dancing Christ. I never said you threatened me. I said your post was threatening violence. Technically speaking, you're threatening deadly force until you physically attack someone with a weapon. I'm not even sure why you're talking about a Biden lockdown anyway. Frontline workers are supposed to start receiving the vaccine next month, and more vulnerable populations starting around February and March.
> There probably won't need to be another full scale lockdown. Biden has never said that he wanted that, but would listen to the scientists if necessary. Please lay off the facebook conspiracy websites. They're just making you crazy. And victim currency? You're just being pathetic now.



Saying I believe there will be peaceful protests is not threatening anything.  Lrn2Rd   


*Fact check: * Facebook is the most respect fact checker in the country and the sole arbiter of truth, there is no conspiracy websites on facebook.


----------



## vincentx77 (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Saying I believe there will be peaceful protests is not threatening anything.  Lrn2Rd
> 
> 
> *Fact check: * Facebook is the most respect fact checker in the country and the sole arbiter of truth, there is no conspiracy websites on facebook.



I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were mentally challenged. Please, carry on as you were.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 21, 2020)

vincentx77 said:


> I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were mentally challenged. Please, carry on as you were.



Stop making veiled threats of violence or your going to end up in prison and you might drop the soap.

This mob protesting outside in front of Cuomo's house in NY don't seem to care the media says Biden will be elected.   Do you get to call the cops still when you defund them?



Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/i/status/1329198224322801664


----------



## notimp (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Stop making veiled threats of violence or your going to end up in prison and you might drop the soap.
> 
> This mob protesting outside in front of Cuomo's house in NY don't seem to care the media says Biden will be elected.   Do you get to call the cops still when you defund them?
> 
> ...


Move out of the bubble:
https://eu.uticaod.com/story/news/2...als-elective-surgeries-stop-again/6353851002/

No government in the world will listen to enraged peabrains protesting in the street for a scenario, where people are dying because _none_ of them can get medical attention anymore. Then you dont have 1000 protesters, then you have people carrying you out of office straight in to exile at the farm upstate. (No sinister undertones, just a failed attempt to somehow squish humor into this.)

If you are faced with those alternatives, it takes no ten Trumpers, to see the path of action.

Face it, emotionally driven ideologs with no concept of whats happening around them are a problem, but the are not 'they problem' currently. You can congregate and get more people in to your silver buying, world is ending, we have to shout - freedom, freedom, narratives, when Trump TV is live and kicking. Then your avatar will almost serve a prophetic function.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Stop making veiled threats of violence or your going to end up in prison and you might drop the soap.
> 
> This mob protesting outside in front of Cuomo's house in NY don't seem to care the media says Biden will be elected.   Do you get to call the cops still when you defund them?
> 
> ...


Dang it didn't I tell @morvoran to Wrap it so he did not get anyone else sick. @jimbo13 how are you feeling? high Fever? have loose stools?. Don't fell embarrassed  an adult diaper is nothing to be ashamed of.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

I just found this video.  Be sure to turn up your speakers to hear that wonderful siren song coming from the leftist.  Looks like even Facebook knows what's going on:

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/i/status/1329902001837191179


----------



## tiamat999 (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I just found this video.  Be sure to turn up your speakers to hear that wonderful siren song coming from the leftist.  Looks like even Facebook knows what's going on:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1329902001837191179



can you please rescue General Flynn sir the digital army is getting impatient


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, if Biden was your candidate, then you should have followed his lead and pushed to "re-elect Donald Trump" like he said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/viral-biden-video-is-deceptively-edited/

Second quote is just Joe misspeaking.


----------



## notimp (Nov 21, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> My prediction is we are going to see substantive civil unrest starting with Biden trying too lock everyone down at home while he redeploys the troops Trump brought home.


Biden is currently saying that he will _not_ produce a national lockdown, and leave everything to governors as usual, I already ridiculed democratic stance on that as 'mirroring Trump' with only differing virtue signaling.

Point being its probably the correct strategy. Local politicians Trust values are higher, concentration of people varies widely in the US. General lockdown doesnt make sense. NY though... different story.

edits: src: https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-b...hutdown-opts-for-face-mask-mandate/a-55670306


----------



## djpannda (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I just found this video.  Be sure to turn up your speakers to hear that wonderful siren song coming from the leftist.  Looks like even Facebook knows what's going on:
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1329902001837191179


Oh how’s the rash today?  Is it still pulsating? Remember if the puss is green than you might need to go to the ER again


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 21, 2020)

Finally America has a soon to be president that sees what's going on and is going to take action.


----------



## notimp (Nov 21, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Finally America has a soon to be president that sees what's going on and is going to take action.
> 
> View attachment 234762


And thats really all the ideology pandering we need.

Progressives are being pushed away with 'we already have a black person in charge' and are starting to feel confused about hearing this.

I'm happy for you personally. But structurally this is a bait and switch, symbolic politics over actual change.

Hey, if you are nice and fit in the image, maybe you even get a fast track to a public position? How high is your twitter follower count?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 21, 2020)

notimp said:


> And thats really all the ideology pandering we need.
> 
> Progressives are being pushed away with 'we already have a black person in charge' and are starting to feel confused about hearing this.
> 
> ...


say it with me everyone: liberals are cringe


----------



## notimp (Nov 21, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> say it with me everyone: liberals are cringe


No. The thing is I'm happy for her. But 60% of me only sees the public relation angle. And that it costs nothing to put someone in a position you could assign to anybody - to act as a public symbol.

Politics should do it, sure...

But when you see corporations doing that form of virtue signaling (usually on racial diversity) to have a stand with socially conscious millennials, so they'd buy their brand, all I see is cost effective manipulation. All of it. That makes me far more cynical than symbolic politics, on Transgender remembrance day.

I think a part of me wants to always tell them, wait until you fall out of favor, because that image doesnt sell anymore..  Not sure why.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 21, 2020)

vincentx77 said:
			
		

> It's really time to shut the fuck up and hop aboard the Biden train. After all, that's what most of you were telling us to do 4 years ago.



And it's something you never did. You attack Trump regardless of what he does. Your side never got on board and worked with Trump to better America. All your side has done for the last 4 years is try to tear it down. Most of your side still claims Trump is an invalid President. So until your side stops with the bullshit my side isn't going to go along with it.

Even if Obama started the groundwork for helping veterans Trump finished the job and not only did it with flying colors, but also donated his entire quarterly salary one quarter to disabled veterans. That's something the Obama's never did.



			
				LumInvader said:
			
		

> Ad hominum attacks won't reduce Biden's 306 electors down to 268.
> - Your pedantic 360 word essay failed to cite a single probable path to victory for Trump.
> - You conveniently ignored Trump's November 2016 tweet, where he claimed a landslide Electoral College victory weeks ahead of the electors casting their ballots.
> - You're among a handful of people on here who have no business criticizing someone else's intelligence.



You're clearly an idiot when you conveniently leave out the fact that I already said Biden is probably going to win. I’m not defending Trump nor claiming he has a chance in winning. You keep repeating that bullshit like it’s something I’m saying and it’s not. It's just he hasn't won yet. Biden isn’t the President Elect until the vote is taken that makes him it. You've been attacking me personally too so you can shove that hominum up your ass.



			
				vincentx77 said:
			
		

> You need to grow the fuck up. You're threatening violence because you didn't get your way in a national election. Keep it up and there will be a prison cell somewhere with your name on it.



You need to shut the fuck up because your side seems to have no problems with burning, looting and murdering in defense of a women beating racist fake money passing off resisting arrest drug addict. You have no ground to stand on when trying to claim your side is all about law and order.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



AmandaRose said:


> Finally America has a soon to be president that sees what's going on and is going to take action.


How many of them were drug addicts in debt that were living dangerous lives and how many were actual just normal people not breaking the law ad minding their own business that were targeted. I'm sure once you find out the answer you'll stop defending criminal trash.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> How many of them were drug addicts in debt that were living dangerous lives and how many were actual just normal people not breaking the law ad minding their own business that were targeted. I'm sure once you find out the answer you'll stop defending criminal trash.


Not one of them had a criminal conviction to their name. Every single one of the had a job and so on


Dustin Parker 25, was fatally shot in McAlester, Oklahoma, early on New Year’s Day. His employers released a statement shortly after his death, remembering Parker as “a steadfast friend, an amazing husband and father and generous to a fault. He loved fiercely, worked tirelessly and took on life with so much hope and enthusiasm that his presence brightened all of our lives.”
Neulisa Luciano Ruiz, was fatally shot in Toa Baja, Puerto Rico on February 24. According to _Metro Puerto Rico_, members of her community knew her as "humble" and "noble."
Yampi Méndez Arocho, 19, was killed in Moca, Puerto Rico, on March 5. Arocho, a transgender man, shared his love for basketball and the NBA -- donning Miami Heat apparel on social media. The biography line on his Facebook reads simply, “Humility Prevails.”
Scott/ Scottlynn Devore, a 51-year old gender non-conforming person, was killed in Augusta, Georgia. Friends remembered Devore as “sweet” and “beautiful” on Facebook.

Monika Diamond, 34, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Charlotte, North Carolina on March 18. Diamond was active in the Charlotte LGBTQ and nightlife community and was the co-owner of an event promotion company. She also was the co-CEO of the International Mother of the Year Pageantry System -- a pageant that honors LGBTQ mothers.
Lexi, 33, a transgender woman, was killed in Harlem, New York on March 28. According to reports, Lexi was fatally stabbed in Harlem River Park. “I really looked up to her because of her tolerance and respect,” said Lavonia Brooks, a friend of Lexi. “Lexi had a beautiful heart, she was very gifted.” Brooks also noted that Lexi loved poetry, makeup and fashion.
Johanna Metzger, a transgender woman, was killed in Baltimore, Maryland on April 11. According to reports, she was visiting a Baltimore recovery center from Pennsylvania at the time. Johanna was known for her love of music and taught herself to play multiple instruments.
Serena Angelique Velázquez Ramos, 32, was killed in Puerto Rico on April 21. Ramos was killed alongside Layla Pelaez Sánchez, 21. According to reports, Ramos was visiting the island on vacation, and was set to return to her home in Queens, New York, at the end of the month. Loved ones are mourning her death, calling her “full of life,” a “happy person,” and a “sincere friend.” On May 1, two men were charged under federal hate crimes law for Ramos's death.
Layla Pelaez Sánchez, 21, was killed in Puerto Rico on April 21. Sánchez was killed alongside Serena Angelique Velázquez Ramos. According to reports, Sánchez had recently moved to the island, and was living in the Tejas neighborhood in Las Piedras. On May 1, two Puerto Rican men were charged under federal hate crimes law for Sánchez's death.
Penélope Díaz Ramírez, a transgender woman, was killed in Puerto Rico on April 13. “Penélope did not deserve to die. Transgender people do not deserve to die. Every single advocate, ally, elected official and community member must stand up in light of this horrific news and say ‘No more.’ What we are doing is not enough,” said Tori Cooper, HRC Director of Community Engagement for the Transgender Justice Initiative.
Nina Pop, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Sikeston, Missouri, on May 3. She was deeply loved by her family, friends and community, according to her Facebook page.
Helle Jae O’Regan, 20, a transgender woman, was killed in San Antonio, Texas, on May 6. O’Regan was proud of her trans identity and on Twitter, she often spoke out against injustice, including the LGBTQ inequality, the prison industrial complex and the need to decriminalize sex work. Damion Terrell Campbell, 42, has been charged with O’Regan’s murder.
Tony McDade, a Black transgender man, was killed in Tallhassee, Florida, on May 27. His friends and family shared how he was an energetic, giving person with a big heart.
Dominique “Rem'mie” Fells, a Black transgender woman was killed in Philadelphia, Pennsyania, on June 9. One personal friend posted online, “Dom was a unique and beautiful soul who I am lucky to have known personally. I am beside myself right now. We need to fight!! We need to do more!!!! We will get justice.”
Riah Milton, a 25-year-old Black transgender woman, was killed in Liberty Township, Ohio on June 9. In March, she posted the status “Never been scared to struggle. Imma get it eventually” -- a comment highlighting her resilience and optimism as a person facing a transphobic, misogynist and racist society.
Jayne Thompson, a 33-year old white transgender woman, was killed in Mesa County, Colorado, on May 9. She was killed by a Colorado State Patrol trooper and misgendered in initial news reports.
Selena Reyes-Hernandez, a 37-year old transgender woman, was killed in Chicago on May 31. “We have lost a beloved member of our trans family because of hate -- hate that has corrupted our country’s soul and that shatters lives and futures every day,” said Tori Cooper, HRC director of community engagement for the Transgender Justice Initiative.
Brian “Egypt’ Powers, a 43-year old Black transgender person, was killed in Akron, Ohio, on June 13. Powers worked at a local catering company and is remembered for wearing long, colorful braids -- “unicorn braids,” as Powers called them.
Brayla Stone, a 17-year old Black transgender girl, was found killed in Little Rock, Arkansas, on June 25. “Brayla Stone was a child. A child, just beginning to live her life. A child of trans experience. A Black girl. A person who had hopes and dreams, plans and community,” said Tori Cooper, HRC director of community engagement for the Transgender Justice Initiative. On September 4, a man was arrested on a murder charge in connection to her death.
Merci Mack, a 22-year old Black transgender woman, was killed in Dallas, Texas, on June 30. Her loved ones shared how beautiful of a friend she was. On her social media, she had recently posted that she enjoyed baking and that she was looking forward to returning to work. On July 8, a man was arrested on a murder charge in connection to her death.
Shaki Peters, a 32-year old Black transgender woman, was killed in Amite CIty, Louisiana, on July 1. “In just four days, we have seen the deaths of at least three transgender and gender non-conforming people, including Shaki Peters. This horrific spike in violence against our community must be an urgent call to action for every single person in this nation,” said Tori Cooper, Director of Community Engagement for HRC’s Trans Justice Initiative.
Bree Black, a 27-year-old Black transgender woman, was killed in Pompano Beach, Florida, on July 3. “These killings are being fueled by the deadly combination of racism and transphobia, and they must cease. We must come together as a community and demand justice for those who were taken from us,” said Tori Cooper, Director of Community Engagement for HRC’s Trans Justice Initiative.
Summer Taylor, a white non-binary person, was in Seattle, Washington, on July 4. Taylor was participating in the Black Femme March in solidarity with Black Lives Matter and against police brutality. Taylor worked full time at Urban Animal veterinary hospital.
Marilyn Cazares was a transgender Latina killed in Brawley, California. Mindy Garcia, an aunt of Cazares, said she “loved to sing and dance” and “never bothered anyone.”
Dior H Ova, who some reports identify as Tiffany Harris, a Black transgender woman, was killed in the Bronx, New York. According to her Facebook, Ova loved fashion -- listing her career as a personal shopper and posting photos with luxury fashion brands that she loved. On August 13, a man was arrested on a murder charge in connection to her death.
Queasha D Hardy, a 22-year old Black transgender woman, was killed in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, on July 27. Hardy, a hairstylist, was extremely loved by her community. Friends and loved ones describe her as loyal, loving, “always smiling,” “the life of all parties” and “truly one of a kind.”
Aja Raquell Rhone-Spears, who sometimes used the name Rocky Rhone, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Portland, Oregon, on July 28. According to Facebook, she studied at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and was the owner and founder of International Barbie, a Portland-based clothing brand.
Lea Rayshon Daye, a 28-year old Black transgender woman, died in Cuyahoga County Jail in Cleveland, Ohio on August 30. “Lea’s death is unacceptable. Increased risk factors such as homelessness, combined with racism, sexism and transphobia, conspired to lead to a death that never should have happened,” said Tori Cooper, HRC Director of Community Engagement for the Transgender Justice Initiative.

Kee Sam, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Lafeyette, Louisiana, on August 12. “We must all speak up in support of trans and gender non-conforming people and affirm that Black Trans Lives Matter,” said HRC’s Tori Cooper, Director of Community Engagement for the Transgender Justice Initiative.
Aerrion Burnett, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Indepedence, Missouri, on September 19. Her friends and family shared “if you wanted to have a good day, you need to smile, Aerrion was the person you wanted by your side.”
Mia Green, a 29-year old Black transgender woman, was killed in Philadelphia on September 28. Her friends and family shared how “her smile was so perfect and so contagious. She made me laugh.”
Michelle Michellyn Ramos Vargas, a transgender woman from Puerto Rico in her mid-30s, was killed in San Germán, Puerto Rico on September 30. “This level of violence— any level of violence — is unacceptable. We are not doing enough to protect transgender and gender non-conforming people, especially trans women,” said HRC’s Tori Cooper, Director of Community Engagement for the Transgender Justice Initiative.
Felycya Harris, a 33-year old transgender woman, was killed in Augusta, Georgia in October. Felycya was an interior decorator who ran her own company where she enjoyed lending her eye to improve the surroundings of others, and made others feel comfortable in their own space.
Brooklyn Deshuna, 20, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Shreveport, Louisiana, on October 7. Brooklyn attended Bossier Parish Community College and studied cosmetology.
Sara Blackwood, a transgender woman, was killed in Indianapolis, Indiana on October 11, recognized as National Coming Out Day. She enjoyed playing video games and was a fan of the show “My Little Pony.”
Angel Unique, a 25-year old Black transgender woman, was killed in Memphis, Tennessee, on October 25. A licensed cosmetologist, friends and family of Angel remembered her for being “very funny, very nice to everybody she met” and “such a bright person [with] a positive spirit.”
Yunieski Carey Herrera, also known as Yuni Carey, a 39-year old Latina transgender woman was killed in Miami, Fl. on Nov. 17. Herrera was a well-known model, performer, dancer and activist loved by the LGBTQ community in Miami. A friend of Herrera described her as “besides being strikingly beautiful, she was kind and she was good.”


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Snipped for redundancy...


 
Most of these were killed by their "would be" lovers that were unaware of their "condition" which caused them to go on a rage and kill them.  This is not about inequality.  It's about catfishing unsuspecting cis-gendered men with anger issues.  Sorry if this fact is unacceptable to you if you have a similar "condition", but it is what it is.  

*Boyfriend charged in death of 22-year-old transgender woman found in Houston parking lot*

*Trans Woman Was Killed By Football Player She Was Dating: Police*

I can go further, but I would rather not.


Also, please stay on topic unless Biden is a transwoman.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 21, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Not one of them had a criminal conviction to their name. Every single one of the had a job and so on
> 
> 
> Dustin Parker 25, was fatally shot in McAlester, Oklahoma, early on New Year’s Day. His employers released a statement shortly after his death, remembering Parker as “a steadfast friend, an amazing husband and father and generous to a fault. He loved fiercely, worked tirelessly and took on life with so much hope and enthusiasm that his presence brightened all of our lives.”
> ...



Thanks for the detailed list. At first glance it would seem most weren't drug addicts in debt or the type that would force themselves on other people. Sad.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Most of these were killed by their "would be" lovers that were unaware of their "condition" which caused them to go on a rage and kill them.  This is not about inequality.  It's about catfishing unsuspecting cis-gendered men with anger issues.  Sorry if this fact is unacceptable to you if you have a similar "condition", but it is what it is.
> 
> *Boyfriend charged in death of 22-year-old transgender woman found in Houston parking lot*
> 
> ...



If that's true it's wrong for them to do that. You should be honest with your partner especially about the sexual stuff because it's such a big deal in a relationship. Being dishonest does usually end up not benefiting the dishonest person. It's best to tell the truth.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> If that's true it's wrong for them to do that. You should be honest with your partner especially about the sexual stuff because it's such a big deal in a relationship. Being dishonest does usually end up not benefiting the dishonest person. It's best to tell the truth.



Well, nowadays, people just don't seem to care about how their actions will affect others around them or the consequences of such actions.  It's a shame that anybody is killed, but stuff like this happens.  

It could be said that the same will happen once Trump is called as the winner of this election.  A lot of unsuspecting leftists will have the rug pulled out from under them and go on a crazy rampage of blocking traffic, burning down underprivileged neighborhoods, and crying that Trump's not their president (which they still haven't accepted).


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 21, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> If that's true it's wrong for them to do that. You should be honest with your partner especially about the sexual stuff because it's such a big deal in a relationship. Being dishonest does usually end up not benefiting the dishonest person. It's best to tell the truth.


I totally agree and have always been upfront about being trans. The thing for me is its just seems like a good excuse to say they murdered her because she was trans and never told them. I'm pretty certain they knew because someone would have told them. And bottom line is there is no excuse for murder in the first place no matter the reason why.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, nowadays, people just don't seem to care about how their actions will affect others around them or the consequences of such actions.  It's a shame that anybody is killed, but stuff like this happens.
> 
> It could be said that the same will happen once Trump is called as the winner of this election.  A lot of unsuspecting leftists will have the rug pulled out from under them and go on a crazy rampage of blocking traffic, burning down underprivileged neighborhoods, and crying that Trump's not their president (which they still haven't accepted).



I don't think Trump is going to be called the winner. Most of his lawsuits or lawsuits filed on behalf of the Republican party haven't really shown widespread voter fraud. At least not enough to turn the results in Trump's favor. Unlike the dumb Liberals that claimed for years that Russian interfered and Trump cheated in the 2016 election that now claim cheating is impossible there are cheaters, but I don't think they were enough to change the outcome. It would be pretty wild if Trump does indeed win, because you have the main stream media and their followers already ignoring COVID-19 rules to go out and party over Biden's projected win so I think the voters have made their decision and sadly Biden will be the next President. I voted for Trump and know you did too, but maybe you're going to have to face a reality where he's no longer the President of the United States, which, contrary to Liberals claims, he has been since 2016.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Most of these were killed by their "would be" lovers that were unaware of their "condition" which caused them to go on a rage and kill them.  This is not about inequality.  It's about catfishing unsuspecting cis-gendered men with anger issues.  Sorry if this fact is unacceptable to you if you have a similar "condition", but it is what it is.
> 
> *Boyfriend charged in death of 22-year-old transgender woman found in Houston parking lot*
> 
> ...


As suspected they both knew

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho...ng-violence-preceded-transgender-14383009.php

https://truecrimedaily.com/2017/02/...nsgender-girlfriend-to-cover-up-relationship/

One of the girls were murdered because she dumped him and the other girl was murdered because the man was cheating and got found out.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You need to shut the fuck up because your side seems to have no problems with burning, looting and murdering in defense of a women beating racist fake money passing off resisting arrest drug addict.


None of these factors warrant kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Was Chauvin's life at risk at any point during the interaction? 


Also, George Floyd being racist? What?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> just seems like a good excuse to say they murdered her because she was trans and never told them


There is no good excuse for murder or abuse.  The conflict in this context is about posturing it as targeted discrimination that Biden genuinely wants to fix.  Maybe he is pandering small lies to garner support to make real good changes.  Hopeful and naïve imo.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't think Trump is going to be called the winner. Most of his lawsuits or lawsuits filed on behalf of the Republican party haven't really shown widespread voter fraud. At least not enough to turn the results in Trump's favor. Unlike the dumb Liberals that claimed for years that Russian interfered and Trump cheated in the 2016 election that now claim cheating is impossible there are cheaters, but I don't think they were enough to change the outcome. It would be pretty wild if Trump does indeed win, because you have the main stream media and their followers already ignoring COVID-19 rules to go out and party over Biden's projected win so I think the voters have made their decision and sadly Biden will be the next President. I voted for Trump and know you did too, but maybe you're going to have to face a reality where he's no longer the President of the United States, which, contrary to Liberals claims, he has been since 2016.



I agree that the swamp is very deep and things don't look good right now.  The lame stream media just wants everyone to think they have got away with it.  They just were not expecting Trump to win with a landslide of popular votes.  There were so many votes for Trump that the Dems' system of cheating just couldn't handle the quantity of votes, and they got sloppy.  That's why several precincts had to stop counting election night.  You can't tell me that Trump won all the battle ground states on election night but lost after over 100,000 votes for just Biden happened to just "show up" the next morning, and still have doubts that no voter fraud occurred.  Also, how could Biden, who never really got out and campaigned, had several controversies going around, stumbled on his own words, and just appeared to have dementia, get more popular votes than both Obama and Hillary?

I have faith that Trump will win.  Don't fall for the lame stream media's lies about Trump's legal team's lawsuits.  Most of the republican lawsuits were made by others and a lot were even before the election was held.  Just look at all the blue seats being flipped red after recounts and audits.  There have been around 10 house seats flipped republican after the election was called for the Dems, already.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



AmandaRose said:


> As suspected they both knew
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho...ng-violence-preceded-transgender-14383009.php
> 
> ...


Oh, so you admit it had nothing to do with anti-trans Trump supporters.  Good for you to finally realize you've been living a lie.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, so you admit it had nothing to do with anti-trans Trump supporters.  Good for you to finally realize you've been living a lie.



Where did I make such a claim? I didn't so I have fuck all to admit to. 

Oh and do you admit that both murders were committed for reasons other than you claimed and both the murderers knew their partners were trans girls which they did.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I agree that the swamp is very deep and things don't look good right now.  The lame stream media just wants everyone to think they have got away with it.  They just were not expecting Trump to win with a landslide of popular votes.  There were so many votes for Trump that the Dems' system of cheating just couldn't handle the quantity of votes, and they got sloppy.  That's why several precincts had to stop counting election night.  You can't tell me that Trump won all the battle ground states on election night but lost after over 100,000 votes for just Biden happened to just "show up" the next morning, and still have doubts that no voter fraud occurred.  Also, how could Biden, who never really got out and campaigned, had several controversies going around, stumbled on his own words, and just appeared to have dementia, get more popular votes than both Obama and Hillary?
> 
> I have faith that Trump will win.  Don't fall for the lame stream media's lies about Trump's legal team's lawsuits.  Most of the republican lawsuits were made by others and a lot were even before the election was held.  Just look at all the blue seats being flipped red after recounts and audits.  There have been around 10 house seats flipped republican after the election was called for the Dems, already.
> 
> ...


Crap I guess  the diarrhea is soo bad it’s coming out of your mouth.


In other news, I think Rudy’s Michigan lawsuit is going to get thrown out again.. you know the list of towns that had to over 100% voter turnout in Michigan is actually list Minnesota lol  course Michigan is only to have over 100% if you add a completely different state with it And the Minnesota’s Benville Township that people are claiming have 350% voter turnout..as proof of fraud  .. well Secretary of State’s election data, 63 people voted in the township, and 71 were registered to vote, a turnout rate of 89%. Guess Rudy shouldn’t be relying on my Racist uncle Bobs facebook post for his election news. Monday is going to be a rough day for Rudy
Here the link https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...ck-rudy-giuliani-affidavit-errors/6366011002/
And if any one of you want to question it. Please look at the name of towns on the Rudy complaint and the map of Michigan.. so you don’t have to depended and real news .


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> None of these factors warrant kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Was Chauvin's life at risk at any point during the interaction?
> 
> 
> Also, George Floyd being racist? What?



Kneeling on his neck however did not kill him. He was a career criminal and when you live that type of life and do the types of drugs he was doing you usually do end up dead. He died from an overdose, not from being pinned down. Honestly, If I was a cop I would have just shot him the minute he started to resist arrest, but that's just me. He was a wife beating drug dealing criminal that was high on meth and synthetic opioids. Shit like that happens when you play stupid games with your life. Getting arrested for trying to pass off fake money didn't help either, apparently.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Also, how could Biden, who never really got out and campaigned, had several controversies going around, stumbled on his own words, and just appeared to have dementia, get more popular votes than both Obama and Hillary?


Two reasons. Firstly, Hillary was a shit candidate. Secondly, regardless of your opinion on how he's handling the pandemic, he is the president during an economic crisis. That alone makes your chances of winning the re-election slim, as trends have shown. Also, even before the pandemic, Trump was very unpopular among moderates and progressives. He was going to have a hard time winning the re-election even if there wasn't a pandemic.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I agree that the swamp is very deep and things don't look good right now.  The lame stream media just wants everyone to think they have got away with it.  They just were not expecting Trump to win with a landslide of popular votes.  There were so many votes for Trump that the Dems' system of cheating just couldn't handle the quantity of votes, and they got sloppy.  That's why several precincts had to stop counting election night.  You can't tell me that Trump won all the battle ground states on election night but lost after over 100,000 votes for just Biden happened to just "show up" the next morning, and still have doubts that no voter fraud occurred.



Those states that weren't done counting hadn't yet looked over their mail in ballots. It's totally possible those mail in ballots that they got to in the next few days all did vote for Biden.



morvoran said:


> Also, how could Biden, who never really got out and campaigned, had several controversies going around, stumbled on his own words, and just appeared to have dementia, get more popular votes than both Obama and Hillary?



The media's twisted affair with Trump and their manipulation of the masses tied in with their lies is why the majority voted for Biden. I'm sure if the people knew how crooked the information they'd being spoon fed is they wouldn't have made such a bad decision.



morvoran said:


> I have faith that Trump will win.  Don't fall for the lame stream media's lies about Trump's legal team's lawsuits.  Most of the republican lawsuits were made by others and a lot were even before the election was held.  Just look at all the blue seats being flipped red after recounts and audits.  There have been around 10 house seats flipped republican after the election was called for the Dems, already.



I just think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I know the leftist media fabricates most of what they try to pass off as real news, but some things they do get right and I other then that 8,000 fraudulent votes or the fact some districts in Michigan had more votes then citizens doesn't really go over as there was enough fraudulent activity to allow Biden to win.

I can't tell what the future holds, but it doesn't look good for Trump and his chances of being reelected President. I know there's dumb liberals, especially on this board that refused to accept Trump was their president for the previous 4 years and refused to work with him for the betterment of mankind, but our side isn't that envious and devious. I think you're just going to have to accept Biden won and do you best to work with the new administration. That's two things the Liberals refused to do in 2016 and we're much better people than they are. Though we won't have the official results until the Electoral College votes in a few weeks I really think Trump did lose this time around. Luckily, we live in a constitutional republic and not under socialism so you're allowed to disagree with me.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 22, 2020)

https://apnews.com/article/election...pennsylvania-87eaf4df86d5f6ccc343c3385c9ba86c

What a shame. You hate to see it.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Kneeling on his neck however did not kill him. He was a career criminal and when you live that type of life and do the types of drugs he was doing you usually do end up dead. He died from an overdose, not from being pinned down. Honestly, If I was a cop I would have just shot him the minute he started to resist arrest, but that's just me. He was a wife beating drug dealing criminal that was high on meth and synthetic opioids. Shit like that happens when you play stupid games with your life. Getting arrested for trying to pass off fake money didn't help either, apparently.


I guess The embarrassment starts early as Pennsylvania threw out Rudy’s lawsuit as. “This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence,” U.S. District Judge Matthew

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> https://apnews.com/article/election...pennsylvania-87eaf4df86d5f6ccc343c3385c9ba86c
> 
> What a shame. You hate to see it.


 No you beat me ... I was trying to say something witty with it ..


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> No you beat me ... I was trying to say something witty with it ..



If you've got something witty then by all means, I'm fresh out today


----------



## morvoran (Nov 22, 2020)

WATCH: Wisconsin Board Of Canvassers Just Agreed With Trump Legal Team, And The Biden Campaign Isn't Happy

According to a Fox 11 news report, the Wisconsin Board of Canvassers just agreed with the Trump campaign when it comes to setting aside particular batches of questionable absentee ballots for observation.

The Biden campaign isn't happy.

"The Trump campaign requested various absentee ballots be set aside for observation. Like envelopes with different colored ink and envelopes marked as indefinitely confined," said the Fox 11 report.

"*Ultimately the board of canvassers agreed, a move the Biden campaign didn't like*"

If these ballots can ultimately be disqualified, this could be a huge win for President Trump, who only trails by 20,000 votes in Wisconsin.

This appears to be a small but significant victory for the Trump campaign.



gregory-samba said:


> It's totally possible those mail in ballots that they got to in the next few days all did vote for Biden.


  Possible, yes.  Likely to be true, absolutely not.

Also, just look at all these "glitches" that happened which none were positive for Trump.  

If you lost faith, I can understand as I have lost faith in our election process.  Most of my life, I never voted as I always felt our elections were just a ploy to appease the ignorant masses.  Unfortunately, this election cycle has just partially confirmed that feeling.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> This appears to be a small but significant victory for the Trump campaign.



Truly intriguing words from someone who will say until they're blue in the face that "Biden hasn't won yet because the vote hasn't been certified and the EC hasn't voted, so it can still change".


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Kneeling on his neck however did not kill him. He was a career criminal and when you live that type of life and do the types of drugs he was doing you usually do end up dead. He died from an overdose, not from being pinned down. Honestly, If I was a cop I would have just shot him the minute he started to resist arrest, but that's just me. He was a wife beating drug dealing criminal that was high on meth and synthetic opioids. Shit like that happens when you play stupid games with your life. Getting arrested for trying to pass off fake money didn't help either, apparently.


Would he have been alive 30 minutes later if his neck was not kneeled on? Yes? Then Chauvin killed him. 
"Well, I shot him, but he really only died from blood loss, so it's not my fault! He should have been able to take the bullet!" 
I also don't think that your last arrest being 13 years ago means that you're a career criminal. It almost seems the opposite to me. And, maybe Floyd wouldn't be a, "drug addict" if the PIC wasn't so money-hungry and cared about rehabilitation over punishment. But instead we throw people with addictions in jail and utilize them for coerced labor. Also, wife beater? What? This is false. 
At the end of the day, thankfully, you aren't a cop. Unfortunately, people with your twisted ideology are.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Would he have been alive 30 minutes later if his neck was not kneeled on? Yes? Then Chauvin killed him.
> "Well, I shot him, but he really only died from blood loss, so it's not my fault! He should have been able to take the bullet!"
> I also don't think that your last arrest being 13 years ago means that you're a career criminal. It almost seems the opposite to me. And, maybe Floyd wouldn't be a, "drug addict" if the PIC wasn't so money-hungry and cared about rehabilitation over punishment. But instead we throw people with addictions in jail and utilize them for coerced labor. Also, wife beater? What? This is false.
> At the end of the day, thankfully, you aren't a cop. Unfortunately, people with your twisted ideology are.



Not a drug addict, but died of an overdose from taking too much meth and fentanyl at the same time, lol. He had problems breathing before being held down and the autopsy didn't attribute the fact he was held down to his demise. He decided to die the minute he took those drugs, he just didn't know it until the devil came to collect.

*The Deadly Effects of Mixing Meth and Fentanyl*
https://lafuentehollywood.com/mixing-meth-and-fentanyl/


----------



## morvoran (Nov 22, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Truly intriguing words



I don't see it that way.  I will say Biden won after the electoral college calls him the winner and is officially confirmed as president.  I'm not a democrat that refuses to accept the results of an election (see Hillary Clinton).  Any win for Trump is just one step closer to the moment Trump is inaugurated for his 2nd term.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> WATCH: Wisconsin Board Of Canvassers Just Agreed With Trump Legal Team, And The Biden Campaign Isn't Happy
> 
> According to a Fox 11 news report, the Wisconsin Board of Canvassers just agreed with the Trump campaign when it comes to setting aside particular batches of questionable absentee ballots for observation.
> 
> ...



really I don't see that on Fox 11. website only this 
 Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount.. lol 
https://fox11online.com/news/state/wisconsin-officials-trump-observers-obstructing-recount

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> I don't see it that way.  I will say Biden won after the electoral college calls him the winner and is officially confirmed as president.  I'm not a democrat that refuses to accept the results of an election (see Hillary Clinton).  Any win for Trump is just one step closer to the moment Trump is inaugurated for his 2nd term.


I will never admit that you a Adult male until you publicly  drop your pants and dance!


----------



## morvoran (Nov 22, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Would he have been alive 30 minutes later if his neck was not kneeled on? Yes? Then Chauvin killed him.



*George Floyd Died of Health Complications from a Fentanyl Overdose -- He Was Not Murdered By Minneapolis Police*

*"But the medical cause of George Floyd’s death was cardiopulmonary arrest due to pulmonary edema resulting from acute Fentanyl toxicity."*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> WATCH: Wisconsin Board Of Canvassers Just Agreed With Trump Legal Team, And The Biden Campaign Isn't Happy
> 
> According to a Fox 11 news report, the Wisconsin Board of Canvassers just agreed with the Trump campaign when it comes to setting aside particular batches of questionable absentee ballots for observation.
> 
> ...


I am soo sorry I was giving you too much credit in thinking you were using real New sites.. like fox 11 but you were just using a garbage blog post  from trendingpolitics.. Good one you trolled me in to almost thinking you were trying present real news!! silly me


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> *George Floyd Died of Health Complications from a Fentanyl Overdose -- He Was Not Murdered By Minneapolis Police*
> 
> *"But the medical cause of George Floyd’s death was cardiopulmonary arrest due to pulmonary edema resulting from acute Fentanyl toxicity."*


Well, how about calling an ambulance then, when he shouts he cant breath, instead of kneeling on his throat for 10 minutes?

Blood can be removed from lungs.

Also, let them sit up:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-first-aid-for-people-with-pulmonary-edema


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

notimp said:


> Well, how about calling an ambulance then, when he shouts he cant breath, instead of kneeling on his throat for 10 minutes?



They did call paramedics, did you not watch the unedited video? Flyod couldn't breath before they pinned him to the ground for resisting arrest. If he didn't do those deadly drugs he probably wouldn't be dead. If he didn't want to die while being restrained he shouldn't have resisted arrest. Floyd's choices are what killed him.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> Blood can be removed from lungs.
> 
> Also, let them sit up:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-first-aid-for-people-with-pulmonary-edema



Oh, also ... how would the cops know he was suffering from pulmonary edema? They don't have x-ray eyes and super powers.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> They did call paramedics, did you not watch the unedited video? Flyod couldn't breath before they pinned him to the ground for resisting arrest. If he didn't do those deadly drugs he probably wouldn't be dead. If he didn't want to die while being restrained he shouldn't have resisted arrest. Floyd's choices are what killed him.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Homeboy left out that part:



> A third document backs this conclusion, however. It’s from the Armed Forces Medical Examiner System, which the federal Department of Justice asked to review the official autopsy. In short, the feds agree that the police restraint caused the death, though of course Floyd’s intoxication and health problems contributed:
> 
> The Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner agrees with the autopsy findings and the cause of death certification of George Floyd as determined by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. His death was caused by the police subdual and restraint in the setting of severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and methamphetamine and fentanyl intoxication. The subdual and restraint had elements of positional and mechanical asphyxiation. The presence of sickle cell trait is a significant finding in this context.
> 
> We concur with the reported manner of death of homicide.


src: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-documents-in-the-george-floyd-case/

Was murder as far as the feds are concerned.

No I did not watch the unedited video - I'm not into snuff. If someone has breathing problems, take them seriously. Dont stare holes into the sky while smiling, while becoming a murderer.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> *George Floyd Died of Health Complications from a Fentanyl Overdose -- He Was Not Murdered By Minneapolis Police*
> 
> *"But the medical cause of George Floyd’s death was cardiopulmonary arrest due to pulmonary edema resulting from acute Fentanyl toxicity."*





gregory-samba said:


> Not a drug addict, but died of an overdose from taking too much meth and fentanyl at the same time, lol. He had problems breathing before being held down and the autopsy didn't attribute the fact he was held down to his demise. He decided to die the minute he took those drugs, he just didn't know it until the devil came to collect.
> 
> *The Deadly Effects of Mixing Meth and Fentanyl*
> https://lafuentehollywood.com/mixing-meth-and-fentanyl/


Both autopsies suggest that him being pinned down for that time led to his death. 

This is purely hypothetical, but let's say that Floyd was a heavy, HEAVY smoker in his life, so much to a point that hampering his breathing for a time would kill him (this isn't how it works, but it is an example). The cops do not know this. He would've died from lung cancer a few weeks later. Does it excuse the actions of the police officers? I mean, he would've died EVENTUALLY, right? Might as well kill him now. 

Yes, he didn't die from asphyxiation, and I never said that. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the police officers.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Would he have been alive 30 minutes later if his neck was not kneeled on? Yes? Then Chauvin killed him.



Fact check: Your not a doctor.  He most likely died of a drug overdose, but either way he died of his own stupidity.  _Keeping it real _without consequences is not a right, you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.  When other people have to deal with your shit, you don't get to critique or complain about how they did it.

The world is a better place without him, he wasn't curing cancer or improving anyone's life.  He was preying on people, Karma collected.

His family is very wealthy now because of Gofundme contributions, he was very successful at being a professional victim.

*The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a “fatal level of fentanyl,” according to court documents.*

https://redstate.com/shipwreckedcre...as-not-murdered-by-minneapolis-police-n252633

https://www.kare11.com/article/news...ystem/89-ed69d09d-a9ec-481c-90fe-7acd4ead3d04

https://apnews.com/article/trials-c...al-injustice-a7eaaa81fc7ed31270f0aa342040e07b


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check: Your not a doctor.  He most likely died of a drug overdose, but either way he died of his own stupidity.  _Keeping it real _without consequences is not a right, you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.  When other people have to deal with your shit, you don't get to critique or complain about how they did it.
> 
> The world is a better place without him, he wasn't curing cancer or improving anyone's life.  He was preying on people, Karma collected.
> 
> ...



I don't know how many times you have to call *deadly *drugs "deadly" until people get a fucking clue.

It's almost like *deadly things kill you*.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't know how many times you have to call *deadly *drugs "deadly" until people get a fucking clue.
> 
> It's almost like *deadly things kill you*.


Yes stupid people  pot is bad for you and will lead to many deaths but things like pressing someone’s neck till they can’t breathe is fine by cops standards ..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

But instead of making racist or at least “willing refusing to acknowledge that minorities are treated differently because your a “ Real American”that never left your family farm and never spoke to a minority.” How you guys feeling bout all those lawsuit being throw out by the judge


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

I am going to help you proles out with some basic vocabulary before Big Brother rolled out the new speak.

*The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a fatal level of fentanyl,*​
_*fa·tal*_
_/ˈfādl/_
_Deadly, causing actual or metaphorical death; _​

_*GEN'DER*, noun [Latin genus, from geno, gigno; Gr.to beget, or to be born; Eng. kind. Gr. a woman, a wife; Sans. gena, a wife, and genaga, a father. We have begin from the same root. _
_1. Properly, kind; sort._
_2. A sex, male or female._​

_*re·pub·lic*_
_/rəˈpəblik/_
_noun_
_a group with equality between its states._
​
Bad people doing bad things often die bad ways.  No one is responsible for George Floyd's death accept George Floyd.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am going to help you proles out with some basic vocabulary before Big Brother rolled out the new speak.
> 
> *The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a fatal level of fentanyl,*​
> _*fa·tal*_
> ...


Lol you are making the arugement that Black peoples lives don’t matter .. yes that’s why they created black lives matter.. so some backwater xenophob can understand

by the way it’s funny to see that Rudy is losing soo bad that Tucker Carlson has to say that’s fake with no proof 
“When we kept pressing, she got angry and told us to stop contacting her," Carlson said in the Thursday segment. "When we checked with others around the Trump campaign, people in positions of authority, they told us Powell has never given them any evidence either, nor did she provide any today at the press conference."


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're clearly an idiot when you conveniently leave out the fact that I already said Biden is probably going to win. I’m not defending Trump nor claiming he has a chance in winning. You keep repeating that bullshit like it’s something I’m saying and it’s not. It's just he hasn't won yet. Biden isn’t the President Elect until the vote is taken that makes him it. You've been attacking me personally too so you can shove that hominum up your ass.


I strongly suspect it's going to be difficult for Trump to reach 270 electoral votes* with only 232 electors*.  I would so love to have Hillary explain this to you.  In addition, there is zero precedent in US History where the trailing candidate ended up winning due to electors flipping votes.  The most faithless electors ever for a living candidate is 6 -- Trump needs 38 (not happening).


			
				gregory-samba said:
			
		

> your side* prematurely claimed victory*





			
				gregory-samba said:
			
		

> You can call the Electoral College vote a formality or any other verbiage that will help defend *your sides lies*


Well would ya look at this, Trump did the same thing back in November 2016!
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2016


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I strongly suspect it's going to be difficult for Trump to reach 270 electoral votes* with only 232 electors*.  I would so love to have Hillary explain this to you.  In addition, there is zero precedent in US History where the trailing candidate ended up winning due to electors flipping votes.  The most faithless electors ever for a living candidate is 6 -- Trump needs 38 (not happening).
> 
> Well would ya look at this, Trump did the same thing back in November 2016!
> https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/802972944532209664



Sigh ... I'm not even going to repeat myself again. You're a waste of time.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Sigh ... I'm not even going to repeat myself again. You're a waste of time.


Repeating yourself =/= to refuting a point.

Your argument is Trump-adjacent, meaning that it's just as implausible as Trump's path to victory.  Also, if Trump can declare victory in the month of November, then *so can I*.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am going to help you proles out with some basic vocabulary before Big Brother rolled out the new speak.
> 
> *The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a fatal level of fentanyl,*​
> _*fa·tal*_
> ...



remember that English is split between descriptivism and prescriptivism. the meaning of words change and evolve over time, as does everything else. for more information see: https://www.uni-due.de/SHE/SHE_Change_Semantic.htm

Also, before posting a lecture, make sure you have your basic vocabulary in check, it's "except" not "accept".

gen·der
/ˈjendər/
 
 Learn to pronounce 

_noun_
noun: *gender*; plural noun: *genders*

1.
either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. *The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.*
"a condition that affects people of both genders"
members of a particular gender considered as a group.
"social interaction between the genders"
the fact or condition of belonging to or identifying with a particular gender.
"video ads will target users based only on age and gender"

2.
Grammar
(in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.
the property (in nouns and related words) of belonging to a gender.
"adjectives usually agree with the noun in gender and number"


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> remember that English is split between descriptivism and prescriptivism. the meaning of words change and evolve over time, as does everything else. for more information see: https://www.uni-due.de/SHE/SHE_Change_Semantic.htm
> 
> Also, before posting a lecture, make sure you have your basic vocabulary in check, it's "except" not "accept".
> 
> ...


Reject progress.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> remember that English is split between descriptivism and prescriptivism. the meaning of words change and evolve over time, as does everything else. for more information see: https://www.uni-due.de/SHE/SHE_Change_Semantic.htm
> 
> Also, before posting a lecture, make sure you have your basic vocabulary in check, it's "except" not "accept".
> 
> ...





UltraSUPRA said:


> Reject progress.



It's more like "*regression*". Societies usually get to a certain point of sickness and perversion where it does them in. The USA is getting closer and closer to ending up like Sodom, Gomorrah and the Greek Empire. It's just sad that the behaviors Liberals go about doing are the causes for societies to collapse. I'm not sure if they just don't care or are just too stupid to realize that sinning and behaving badly have deadly consequences. It's just sad that a perverted minority is held up so high on pedestals by the wicked Demonrats. Democrats / Demonrats are a leading cause of why our great nation and its people are suffering.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The point is all the trump supporters claim to be good Christian folks. Yet their constant abuse of Biden having dementia goes against several of the main Christian values. Such as.
> 
> Generosity – This is the core Christian value of being KIND and unselfish,
> 
> ...



We're by no means all Christian. I shoot competitively, and reading Biden's gun platform made it crystal clear who I had to vote against.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

eastwald said:


> We're by no means all Christian. I shoot competitively, and reading Biden's gun platform made it crystal clear who I had to vote against.



Learning how to respect others is part of life. Those who judge Christians for their beliefs are no better than the people they don't like who judge them. Regression is when you go back to behaviors and systems that have been proven time and time again to fail and harm people. Possibly it's the dope everyone's smoking that makes them unaware that their choices bring forth consequences. I know they cry bloody murder after making stupid decisions that have disastrous outcomes. Just look at George Floyd, crying like a bitch and begging for his life after voluntarily taking deadly substances. His choices had consequences, so does behaviors like sleeping around, eating too much or not accepting the body God gave you. There's actually a roughly 2,000 old book that highlights what happens when you behave badly. It figures the Devil would keep the sinners from it.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> remember that English is split between descriptivism and prescriptivism. the meaning of words change and evolve over time, as does everything else.



Gravity in a thousand years is still going to be gravity, 90 degrees fahrenheit will be 90 degrees fahrenheit tomorrow, and the word gender is a biological noun, not an adjective for "MEHFEELZ".

Just because you feel chilly does not change the fact it is 83 degrees and the sun is shining.

I reject sociologists redefining scientific classification.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Gravity in a thousand years is still going to be gravity, 90 degrees fahrenheit will be 90 degrees fahrenheit tomorrow, and the word gender is a biological noun, not an adjective for "MEHFEELZ".
> 
> Just because you feel chilly does not change the fact it is 83 degrees and the sun is shining.
> 
> I reject sociologists redefining scientific classification.



Where you aware that the main scientist and author responsible for making rules about transsexuals in the USA DSM-V manual was overruled by political hacks inside of the psychiatric industry to reclassify transsexuals to be not mentally ill. The main guy who is the de-facto authority was overruled and Twitter then tried to ban him for speaking his mind. You'd figure the author of the rules and sections would be listened to, but nope. It was decided it would be more politically correct to reclassify a mental disorder as not being a mental disorder. Something to ponder with all these "evolvements" taking place.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Where you aware that the main scientist and author responsible for making rules about transsexuals in the USA DSM-V manual was overruled by political hacks inside of the psychiatric industry to reclassify transsexuals to be not mentally ill. The main guy who is the de-facto authority was overruled and Twitter then tried to ban him for speaking his mind. You'd figure the author of the rules and sections would be listened to, but nope. It was decided it would be more politically correct to reclassify a mental disorder as not being a mental disorder. Something to ponder with all these "evolvements" taking place.



I am fine with Gender dysphoria not being a medical condition, it makes public policy discussion very simple.

If it is not a medical condition it does not require medical treatment or binding public/private accommodation.  /endoftopic


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am fine with Gender dysphoria not being a medical condition, it makes public policy discussion very simple.
> 
> If it is not a medical condition it does not require medical treatment or binding public/private accommodation.  /endoftopic



Logic however doesn't really work to well on Liberals. They've just spent the last 4 years learning that wishful thoughts and personal feelings aren't reality. Some are just starting to come around to realize facts and logic are what define reality. I'm not sure how long it'll take them to learn hundreds of millions of years of biology, but at least we know they are capable of learning ... slowly.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Gravity in a thousand years is still going to be gravity, 90 degrees fahrenheit will be 90 degrees fahrenheit tomorrow, and the word gender is a biological noun, not an adjective for "MEHFEELZ".
> 
> Just because you feel chilly does not change the fact it is 83 degrees and the sun is shining.
> 
> I reject sociologists redefining scientific classification.



yeah, step 3 of that proof is wrong, since (A^2)^1/2 is not the same number in all instances. (A^2)^1/2 = ± A.

sociologists are not reclassifying science. you are grossly misinformed. get an education plz.

sex and gender are two separate things. sex is biological, while gender is social/behavioral.

this is 6th grade sex ed information.

when you get to college level stuff you really realize how messy nature really is.

2% of humans are born with ambiguous genitalia. around 2% of humans are also born with swapped gender identities. There is literally a scale for genitalia ambiguity called the Quigly Scale. there are multitudes of ways this stuff gets fucked up, hormonal imbalances, missing chromosomes (X0), duplicated chromosomes (XYY, XXY, XXYY, XYYY...).

if your chromosomes can be fucked up, so can the balance between your mind and body.
life is messy, deal with it.

you guys claim to love science, except when things get complicated...

Science is not right on the first try, Math had to go through HUNDREDS of years of changes to get where we are now. try doing multiplication with Roman numerals if you don't believe me.

also, gravity is not same, hundreds of years ago, newton thought gravity was an intrinsic force, but we now know that it is actually curves in space time, not a force.

remember electron shells? shits not real, quantum mechanics explains the phenomenon better.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> yeah, step 3 of that proof is wrong, since (A^2)^1/2 is not the same number in all instances. (-1^2)^1/2 = ± 1.
> 
> sociologists are not reclassifying science. you are grossly misinformed. get an education plz.
> 
> ...



The proof is from 1984 dumbass, 2+2=5 because big brother said so.

I am not adopting the circa 2009ish re-defining of gender, the old one worked just fine for me.  Thanks for playing.  

I am not interested in your hormonal issues or your entitlement to dictating what my feelings on the matter should be.

Either they have a medical issue, or they do not.

If I am expected to make a legal accomodation in matters of my business or obligatory behavior/speech etc. that needs to be factually, scientifically based and defined.

When you are legislating peoples obligations in matters of accomodations, insurance, etc "MEHFEELZ" does not warrant the force of law behind it.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The proof is from 1984 dumbass, 2+2=5 because big brother said so.
> 
> I am not adopting the circa 2009ish re-defining of gender, the old one worked just fine for me.  Thanks for playing.
> 
> ...




gender and sex have been two separate things since the early 80's not 2009.
welp guess we know where you stand when it comes to science. As an American, i respect your right to be wrong and grossly uninformed.


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Learning how to respect others is part of life. Those who judge Christians for their beliefs are no better than the people they don't like who judge them. Regression is when you go back to behaviors and systems that have been proven time and time again to fail and harm people. Possibly it's the dope everyone's smoking that makes them unaware that their choices bring forth consequences. I know they cry bloody murder after making stupid decisions that have disastrous outcomes. Just look at George Floyd, crying like a bitch and begging for his life after voluntarily taking deadly substances. His choices had consequences, so does behaviors like sleeping around, eating too much or not accepting the body God gave you. There's actually a roughly 2,000 old book that highlights what happens when you behave badly. It figures the Devil would keep the sinners from it.


Sounds like you need a blunt and a hooker. I also don't think God would be happy you saying George Floyd was "crying like a bitch." Hypocritical since you said it's important to respect others.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> Sounds like you need a blunt and a hooker. I also don't think God would be happy you saying George Floyd was "crying like a bitch." Hypocritical since you said it's important to respect others.



0% capable of empathy and humanity.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> welp guess we know where you stand when it comes to science. guess you don't believe in evolution either. as an American, i respect your right to be wrong and grossly uninformed.




Science is science, Biology is biology     _______fill in the blank_____ studies/sciences is community college nonsense and neither studies or science.

GEN'DER, noun [Latin genus, from geno, gigno; Gr.to beget, or to be born; Eng. kind. Gr. a woman, a wife; Sans. gena, a wife, and genaga, a father. We have begin from the same root.
1. Properly, kind; sort.
*2. A sex, male or female
*
You aren't even referring to a consistent group when your arguing, your grouping birth defects, hormonal imbalances & gender dysphoria all in to the same group and shifting between them to justify your nonsense.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Science is science, Biology is biology     _______fill in the blank_____ studies/sciences is community college nonsense and neither studies or science.
> 
> GEN'DER, noun [Latin genus, from geno, gigno; Gr.to beget, or to be born; Eng. kind. Gr. a woman, a wife; Sans. gena, a wife, and genaga, a father. We have begin from the same root.
> 1. Properly, kind; sort.
> ...



what the fuck, gender and sex IS biology. are you dense? how can biology both be real science and not real science? where are you even getting that definition?

"The historic meaning of _gender_, ultimately derived from Latin _genus_, was of "kind" or "variety". By the 20th century, this meaning was obsolete, and the only formal use of _gender_ was in grammar.[5] This changed in the early 1970s when the work of John Money, particularly the popular college textbook _Man & Woman, Boy & Girl_, was embraced by feminist theory. This meaning of _gender_ is now prevalent in the social sciences, although in many other contexts, _gender_ includes _sex_ or replaces it.[6] Gender was first only used in languages to describe the feminine and masculine words, up until around the 1960s.[41]"

like if you're gonna make bullshit statements like "gender was redefined in 2009" back that shit up. if you are fucking up even the most simple citation and information gathering, no one is going to want to interact with you.

social science is still science, if it wasn't then all of the bitching and moaning about fascism and communism wouldn't exists because that shit is social science. Science changes over time, becoming hopefully more correct as it goes.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> what the fuck, gender and sex IS biology. are you dense? how can biology both be real science and not real science? where are you even getting that definition?



Merriam-Webster.

I am not saying biology is not a hard science, I am dismissing bullshit nonsense soft sciences redfining the word gender.

Soft sciences, feminist sociology etc are 99% bullshit.

*soft science*

*noun*
any of the specialized fields or disciplines, as psychology, sociology, anthropology, or political science, that interpret human behavior, institutions, society, etc., on the basis of scientific investigations for which it may be difficult to establish strictly measurable criteria.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Merriam-Webster.
> 
> I am not saying biology is not a hard science, I am dismissing bullshit nonsense soft sciences redfining the word gender.
> 
> ...



cool, you just claimed that politics is all soft science, and as such can be hand waived away. soft science is still real science. you don't get to cherry pick parts you agree with and throw away that which you don't. although i guess people in this day and age can when they still think a virus that has had it's genome sequenced and is fucking up almost every country on earth is a hoax.

if you want to be a well rounded person, you should embrace all the different sides of science. i know i did.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> cool, you just claimed that politics is all soft science, and as such can be hand waived away.


 
Humans are a dimorphic species, gender is a noun indicating one of those data sets and no amount of puprle hair dye, nose rings and student loans is going to change that.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Humans are a dimorphic species and no amount of blue hair dye and student loans is going to change that.



that statement is actually stupid, i already stated that sex chromosome abnormalities are fairly frequent in our species. i'll reiterate what i said earlier in simple terms, if your chromosomes can get mixed up, so can your brain. throwing around science terms like that looks like flailing. sexual dimorphism is how the sexes of a species are different.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> that statement is actually stupid, i already stated that sex chromosome abnormalities are fairly frequent in our species. i'll reiterate what i said earlier in simple terms, if your chromosomes can get mixed up, so can your brain.


Because mistakes in nature happen


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Because mistakes in nature happen



very much so, like the reason transgenderism and homosexuality are a problem now is the sheer number of humans.

~3% of humans are gay and another ~1% is trans, and ~2% are intersex. back when our world population was 1 million that would only be 60k.

we have over 7.5 billion people now, putting  the total of non-binary, non-heterosexual, and non-standard sex individuals at ~45 million people (there could be overlap, gay intersex, gay trans, ect).

we as a society can't brush this shit under the rug anymore. I'm not sure the Christian god would be OK with us mass murdering 45 million people, let alone 1.

these people could make up as much as 21 million Americans spread out over the 50 states.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> very much so, like the reason transgenderism and homosexuality are a problem now is the sheer number of humans.
> 
> ~3% of humans are gay and another ~1% is trans, and ~2% are intersex. back when our world population was 1 million that would only be 60k.
> 
> ...



None of those are the same thing and many individuals of those descriptions would be offended by your grouping and they are "Not a problem".

No country in western civilization is mass murdering anyone in these groups, If you want to deal with those issues your going to have to go the middle east. None of those classifications require public disclosure discussion, or identification of any kind to live there life just like anyone else, I don't see any adjustment needed for >5% of the population for a trait that I don't need to be informed about or is any of my business.

You lose support when you start assigning people tasks with that "We as a society" garbage.  There is no we, I am not a collectivist and I am not in your commune.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

Alexa, who is John Money?


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Some are just starting to come around to realize facts and logic are what define reality.





gregory-samba said:


> There's actually a roughly 2,000 old book that highlights what happens when you behave badly. It figures the Devil would keep the sinners from it.



Pick one.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Pick one.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


>


This loosely explains the events of Moses in Egypt. There is a whole book filled with unexplainable scenarios.


----------



## HarveyHouston (Nov 22, 2020)

Wow, calling the election win before the electoral college makes the final decision is a VERY BAD IDEA! Let me just say that although I haven't approved everything Trump has done, he could still very much be the winner. Right now, there's plenty of arguments on which votes submitted are valid or not - there's also plenty of claims of fake votes. Whatever the case, the official decision rests on our system of checks and balances - NOT the mainstream media!

True, it does look as if Biden is going to win, but the balance could shift and Trump could win instead - we just have to be prepared for either outcome and deal with whatever decision is made. Personally, I think Biden is a bad choice, and as even Trump haters have stated, Biden would not be good for America if he truly is the winner. I think Trump has done plenty of good for the United States, but then again I don't follow just what the mainstream media (CNN, Fox News, etc.) are saying - I have various sources of information that I weigh against each other, and from what I've read and witnessed, Trump himself has done a lot for the people of the U.S. and most of the world.

Yet in comparison to Biden, even Bush or Clinton seems better than Biden. Biden not only seems to have a few screws loose, there are rumors of him making deals with terrorist groups - I haven't read such about Trump. In fact, one former terrorist in the Middle East is urging Americans to vote for Trump, as he claims that Obama was actually very bad for the Palestinians, and he doesn't want to see the same happen with Biden.

That's what I've seen, thus so far. Frankly, I wish it was over already - declare the winner, and then let the people stop staying on the edge of their seats. Whatever the case, I fear that there are plenty of volatile people out there who are going to cause chaos after the decision is made, so to anyone who was willing to read this through, I urge all of you: *Let's do what we can to be civil.* Anger and violence does not solve problems; they only make things worse. Prayers help too, if any of you guys believe in God and are willing to pray about it. If we want peace and safety, we need to obtain it from hard work and well thought out ideas, not from vandalism and killing people.

Give me a like if you agree with any part of this post!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

HarvHouHacker said:


> Wow, calling the election win before the electoral college makes the final decision is a VERY BAD IDEA! Let me just say that although I haven't approved everything Trump has done, he could still very much be the winner. Right now, there's plenty of arguments on which votes submitted are valid or not - there's also plenty of claims of fake votes. Whatever the case, the official decision rests on our system of checks and balances - NOT the mainstream media!
> 
> True, it does look as if Biden is going to win, but the balance could shift and Trump could win instead - we just have to be prepared for either outcome and deal with whatever decision is made. Personally, I think Biden is a bad choice, and as even Trump haters have stated, Biden would not be good for America if he truly is the winner. I think Trump has done plenty of good for the United States, but then again I don't follow just what the mainstream media (CNN, Fox News, etc.) are saying - I have various sources of information that I weigh against each other, and from what I've read and witnessed, Trump himself has done a lot for the people of the U.S. and most of the world.
> 
> ...




Be careful.  If you said that a week ago, you'd have pretentious jerks like @Lacius attempting to force his faith down your throat, or other idiots claiming that you are clearly pro Trump--therefore the problem.  The cost of attempting neutrality, and an open mind, seems to be more dangerous these days, as you won't have a militia to defend you, and even worse, potentially an attack from all sides.  Fortunately it seems like people are all bark, no bite, unless you are treading on Antifa's playground.



Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> This loosely explains the events of Moses in Egypt. There is a whole book filled with unexplainable scenarios.




Just add drugs to the equation.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

HarvHouHacker said:


> Wow, calling the election win before the electoral college makes the final decision is a VERY BAD IDEA!


Yeah its not like this is what TV stations have done all your life. Because people usually resile their claim, when theyd have to sue their way to the presidency in four states simultaniously.

Its also what Trump did on election night (wrongly), and the Biden administration a few days later.

God people in here become more and more stupid by the hour.



> Although I haven't approved everything Trump has done, he could still very much be the winner. Right now, there's plenty of arguments on which votes submitted are valid or not - there's also plenty of claims of fake votes.


Do you mean 100?

If you go a few pages back, you see Giuliani literally constructing an election fraud argument out of all possible ways of administrative inconsistencies, and possible avenues of fraud possible. All of them. At once. With coming to the conclusion, that the most elaborate (with communist money from Venezuela!) must have failed, because so many 'good' people voted, at which point, dems just resorted to ballot stuffing of either already scanned bunches, that might also have been printed. Thats after backdating and mail in fraud and...
In four different states. Without them having anything but fans that swear, that they've seen it (well part of it). Whose lawsuits get struck down one after the other. And election workers in isolated cases (administrative errors, some of them grave, but isolated as cases).

Its literally the deranged image of a madman having been presented with all voting fraud theories at once, mumbling oh my god, oh my god, while stiching all of them together realizing, that he must say that the most promising of them must have failed, so they used the less promising ones, also - in two different ways, because they got DMs from people that swear they've seen it.

And you have nothing but whitness accounts. After you pulled up phone lines, instructing people, that they should call in. After you told literally insane people (which you herded in your online channels of the easily manipulatable), that they are now sheriffs and should look out for 'fraud on election day'. Which lead to people staying over night in parkinglots, pointing there cellphone cameras at voting centers. Because and I quote 'they are stealing the election from my father'.

Using 'all the potential' methods at once, failing the most elaborate one, then continuing with two other ones, after initially already having fixed the election by using mail in balloting at all? And having statistically manipulated it in counties where they have a high percentage of voters, by allowing more of them to correct invalid ballots? Then fixing votingmachines. In Cuba and Venezuela, with communists. Then switching methods to ballot stuffing on the fly - in real time, after realizing - its not enough, on election night?

While - on the other hand, the voting commission itself (bipartisan) reported no instances of detected, or reported fraud.

F*ck citizen policing, citizen journalism, and citizen activism - if its done by people that are being told what to see, before its happening, and that are so religious in devotion, they would gladly go to jail for a month just to believe they have served the needs of the group.

And I actually left out part of the theories, like just checking off any name on the list, when someone came in that they hadn't on those lists, and if the real person came in, giving them a provisional ballot, and votes being counted in Germany and Spain (state using online voting (WHAT?!) with servers located outside the US). And...

All of them. All potential fraud methods, in one and a half hours, in one press conference, referenced by Giuliani.

Half of it residing on accounts of poor election workers, that were too dumb to realize before the day after, that they should have looked at envelopes, when they were opened, or that they shouldnt manipulate who is voting, because their supervisor said so. And half of it residing on methods so undetectable - no one could see or detect them - but then, those of course must have failed, because then they switched to more easily detectable once - "when they thought all republican voting officers had gone home to sleep - but in reality only all but two had".

While you and your NGOs are filing more than 40 different lawsuits in four different states at the same time to crush the legal system?

Do you know what? F*ck this. All of it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

notimp said:


> Yeah its not like this is what TV stations have done all your life. Because people usually resile their claim, when theyd have to sue their way to the presidency in four states simultaniously.
> 
> Its also what Trump did on election night (wrongly), and the Biden administration a few days later.
> 
> ...




No matter how much damage you think he is causing, he is still exposing the vulnerabilities of the political process.   If the American political system fails because it was designed to, then let it.  We need something that is more capable of serving the people's needs, and not reliant on archaic measures that doesn't account for the technology of our time.  We have potential for a way where everyone could vote on every single bill/concern/tax delegation, with a delay equivalent to ping response.  Why should we have to choose one politician when we can be our own politician, choosing what our taxes pay for and what our taxes won't pay for?  Why should we pay for war and murder if we only want to pay for universal healthcare?  Why vote on politicians when you can directly vote on policies?  The technology is capable of allowing everyone having a more representative of a voice--but before technology to work, we have to be able to have faith in it.  No closed source, networked, centralized, mystery votebox is going to do that for us. 

You can hate the player, but the game is what has been provably awful--on account of all sides involved.  This is how the system is now, and it totally sucks.  It's not because Trump is president.  Trump became president because the system was allowed to suck so f*king bad in the first place.  Now we are going to pretend Biden being president is going to fix everything, and we can "return to normal"?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

Also, news networks weren't so keen on reporting Trump as a winner until Clinton conceded.   Even Trump respected this tradition. Why did Biden and news networks forgo it this round?  They were hoping that they could overshadow Trump's proclaimed intention of not conceding.  Guess that blew up.  Is it any wonder why he chose to represent the group of bootlickers who would fight and die for a cause, over the people who all act selfishly and scattered when push comes to shove?  Even if it is misplaced, that loyalty is a strength that could usurp the modern American political machine if it meant any kind of reform.  That's leverage.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alexa, who is John Money?


I will answer that for you he was a pedophile who forced a boy to transition. You should be asking Alexa who is David Reimer.

As for Money well

Money was behind the involuntary sex-reassignment of the child David Reimer

He also forced Reimer whilst still a child and Reimers younger brother to simulate sex acts together which Money photographed which then caused the adult suicides of both brothers.

Why you would bring up the name of this piece of scum for absolutely no reason is beyond me.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Why you would bring up the name of this piece of scum for absolutely no reason is beyond me.



Interesting that, of all things, is what piques your interest.  Not really that surprising of a person who likes to rank pedophiles, I guess.



Hey @Ev1l0rd, I'm very interested in how you'd compare Borat, The Movie to Project Veritas in terms of journalistic integrity.  Why don't you lay it out for us?


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No matter how much damage you think he is causing, he is still exposing the vulnerabilities of the political process.


To whom and for what purpose?

All the 'I didnt know that we had to look at the envelopes before opening', and 'I was told I should just tick off anyone - If I didnt find that person coming in in the voter registry, and if the other person shows up, give them a provisional ballot' issues are - LITERALLY, you - as a nation are unfit to have democracy. I'm sorry. You are too dumb not to get manipulated by authority figures.

All the voting machine fraud issues will be hushed over forever, becuase changing any of them means repeat costs for purchasers (security patches), and less profit for the companies literally just banging together Win95 machines, and then certifying. Replacing them with paper ballots will not fly - because 'too much work for our election watchers', and too costly to run elections. You literally just epoxy the USB ports and hope for the best.

If you have vote scanners in place at all (regardless of you not knowing how the firmware looks, they are running on, or how the hardware design looks, which could contain a firmware switchover), and dont even understand, that you have to use 'one way feed' models, with bags at the bottom, just like with ballot boxes - sorry...

If you dont understand that you shouldnt allow votes being recast if invalid in certain districts, but not in others, sorry... (At the same time you have repression efforts going on to get people off of voting lists, simply by them holding 'ethnic sounding names' in the past (a little more than allegedly) on which you shine no light).

If you dont know, that you cant leave the voting process as a voting observer 'when you feel tired'.

If you cant keep track, if a certain batch had been 'scanned twice', ... if...
--

None of that is 'structurally' fixable - because at least a decent amount of those cases can be explained away with 'human error'.

The voting machine issue is structural, but wont go away - because it would mean less convenience and less profits. And it didn't need the Trump campaign to surface it in terms of a rumor, you had entire university departments pointing the issue out for years, but noone listened.

The 'statistical manipulation' possibility the 'Trump campaign saw in logs' was contxtualized in the press event as 'almost statistically impossible results' -- none of that was followed up on in detail. So we learn effing nothing. The vote counting/reporting speed differences that showed up on NYT scraping data - where not given context at all (what was that, you had people at those places) in the press conference. The theories, that votes should 'oscillate' from one countin time slot to the other and not stabilize towards a near average percentage 'if they were sufficiently randomized in the postal system' was nonsense. Despite the fact, that they arent probably 'randomized' in the postal system - because post delivers 'first come first serve'.
--

The 'dead people voting lists' didnt scale in concept (where do you get the Ids or home ownership from? (One guy with three postal boxes requesting 3000 ballots? That gets caught by sanity checks, and put into jail for 10 years?).
--

Yes, we knew all those possibilities, and many more (gerrymandering, removing people from voting lists based on racial group, reducing number of ballot boxes in black districts...) for ages.

If you really control lets say 20 of those methods, so efficiently that it 'actually ads up to something' (which isnt that easy - because one case of 'didnt look at an envelope being opened' doesnt mean 1000) and therefore so smartly that you target those places, where they'd be most efficient in use. All the while not knowing how voter turnout will be, and simply accepting, that you might produce 10 illegal 'schemes' that simply become non relevant in 10 different states, because turnout was different, and your scheme just became statistically irrelevant. Which means - high risk on empty spending on illegal efforts - that if caught and pronounced structural, lead to revotes, or at least recounts --- you can manipulate the election.

And then next year, depending on voter turnout alone, or a message that might have hit with another demographic - you might not.

(And the most promising of those 'nested' schemes (vonting mashine fraud), because its the hardest to detect, the easiest to scale, and the best to adjust - year over year) - at this election obviously was the only one to fail according to Rudy..)

All the while knowing, that once you are caught (not on an 'idividual 'I've seen it' level, but lets say an organizer stepping forward) - its over.
-

And you think all of this should be fixed - while the most blatent way of vote manipulation is unfixable?

Brainwash a buch of people having no clue about anything, and have them vote for a guy, because you gave them stimulus money, or are protecting them from Cuba, Venezuela, Germany and Spain.

Getting dumb voters, is so much easier, scales so much better, can be scaled up and down, based on ad hoc investment - can be targeted, can be expanded and retracted over the years. Has long term benefits (people will remember that one time)...

Is legal.

And has no recourse.

And is known to be done with billionaire donor money.
-

Summerizing:

This is a case of people not wanting to recognize what voting is. And how f*cking dumb they are.

- They are willing to fight for miniscule theoreticals being eliminated untill their teeth fall out. On hypotheticals that are not proven to have been used at scale in the past.

- They are willing to 'add up' single cases and just believe, that this must be able to affect 100.000 of votes - if coordinated, without proof of plausibility

- They are willing to ignore instances where some of them (Gerrymander, register manipulation, and yes probably even 'selective notifications' (as in - in certain districts) to tell people when they only used one envelope and their vote became void) have been proven to exist - and change outcomes in the past. Because admitting that would mean, they had to seriously question in what society they are living in. And they simply dont want to.

- They are ignoring, that election spending in the US has reached 14bn USD, where 'billionaire donor spending' and 'personal spending from rich candidates' are the highest two sections of 'income' - and fundraising is the 'most funnest - part of the election experience' (free food).

- They arent saying a word against attack ads, that work based on misleading imagery and audio cues.

- They are happy - that most advertisments are payed by 'packs' they have no idea who is financing.

- They are literally so stupid, that you can get them to an election in record numbers with the question pending, do you want the candidate, that promises not to kill more of you, or do you want the one, that wants to continue -- and no other political program.

- They then are stupid enough, that they believe 'a president' will change their political system (institution based), or outlook - even though they dindnt get a majority in the senate.

-  10 people in here are still telling you how Joe will, make this a communist nation - and making their country communist, and surveilling them personally, and do something for the environment, and tax them more - even though he has absolutely NO POWER to (senate), and made election promises not even to tax the rich? (No increases up to 400k of yearly income).
-

This whole episode is - is f*cking morons screaming 'fix my computer', while being ideologically, religiously, and emotionaly manipulated to the brim. Not knowing anything about anything -- and getting into a panic frency - when someone tells them, a villain has stolen something from them.

The very basic truth is - if someone has the capacity to do what you are insisting they are doing (to really make a bunch of different small manipulation vectors count in a way where coordinating them would have impact). You are f*cked. Truely f*cked. Unfixably f*cked.

You even have the agency that monitors electronic voting fraud lying to you - telling you that 'certification' and 'logs' would allow you to catch electronic manipulation.

(Real answer is 'if you epoxy the ports', 'if you have a good regime of actually locking the systems away, when not in use', 'If you look _very carefully_ into procedures, where a bunch of them are updated, if you have an understanding about the hardware design (important) - then 'hacking' them (locally, one by one - with an USB stick) -- in a way that spot-recounts cant detect statistically, might be sufficiently hard to not scale.)

And you want the world to be perfect. Without thinking about your own psychological shortcomings. (What goes into an average voting decision?)

AND YOU WANT TO DEFER THE ULTIMATE DECISION towards 'judges' who then 'rule' over something they might not understand in full. And then you sleep well - and pronounce your democracy, wonderfull, free, and kicking?

If you want all that - I have two words for you.

And I should probably not write them out, for the risk of getting into trouble with moderators.

How about this istead.

Hacking peoples believes is far easier. Although you might have to supply them with groups and a leader. And legal. And costeffective. And scales -- and from many theoretical perspectives, is the actual answer to the question 'what democratic elections are about'.

When I'm resorting to 'elections are just a way for 'transitions of power' to take place' without civil wars, I'm not exaggerating much. If you can "steal an election" -- regardless of which methods you used. Against the safeguards that are in place. All power to you. If you can hold a society sufficiently happy - to not kick you out the next time they can - all power to you.

The rest is just there, so that manipulation cant scale too easily.

And if you believe in the world where all of those problems are fixable to get a 'just election' you have a different problem.

Lets just say - that educated people, kind of start to catch how this works at one point in their life. Some even at school, when they read latin or greek texts on 'statesmanship'.
-

At the same time, this is also why you need institutions. Which are positioned in a way that they share structural power and are only manipulatable (get other people in) over a longer period of time.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Interesting that, of all things, is what piques your interest.  Not really that surprising of a person who likes to rank pedophiles, I guess.



No it's interesting that UltraSUPRA brought his name up for absolutely no fucking reason other than to piss me and the other trans members on the site off knowing fine well that John Money is hated by the trans community and pretty much every scientist alive. 

And please show me where I have ever ranked pedophiles. There is no need to rank them they are all the same vile scum.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

notimp said:


> To whom and for what purpose?
> 
> All the 'I didnt know that we had to look at the envelopes before opening', and 'I was told I should just tick off anyone - If I didnt find that person coming in in the voter registry, and if the other person shows up, give them a provisional ballot' issues are - LITERALLY, you - as a nation is unfit to have democracy. I'm sorry. You are too dumb not to get manipulated by authority figures.
> 
> ...



Holy crap.  Bravo.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Hey @Ev1l0rd, I'm very interested in how you'd compare Borat, The Movie to Project Veritas in terms of journalistic integrity. Why don't you lay it out for us?


Still hung up over that dude?

You should consider moving on.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Still hung up over that dude?
> 
> You should consider moving on.


You should explain yourself.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I mean, recessing yourself into silence and pretending it didn't happen is an option.  I would just like to think that someone like you had some integrity instead of just deflecting the obvious insinuation of such hypocrisy.


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## Ev1l0rd (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You should explain yourself.


Over a conversation that _checks thread_, happened a week ago and the rest of the thread has moved on from?

Naw. I don't think I will.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Over a conversation that _checks thread_, happened a week ago and the rest of the thread has moved on from?
> 
> Naw. I don't think I will.



Ok. It's your prerogative to be an unaccountable hypocrite.  Who am I to judge?


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ok. It's your prerogative to be an unaccountable hypocrite.  Who am I to judge?


It's my pregorative to not take up obvious attempts at Sealioning.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

Also, the 'Hugo Chavez' system Powell is so concerned about, and that will blow up Georgia to the point where it will be 'biblical' (newsmax interview with her), was 'all voting machines connected to the internet'. According to her citing her source (versbetum) from the affidavit. (In here Fox news appearance.)

Were the Dominion machines connected to the internet? No? Well issue solved.

And if yes - we are venturing 'closely' into 'you too dumb to be allowed to have democracy - territory again'. (Any single point of failure, where you'd be able to attack 100s of voting machines at once - is a huge issue).

But the Trump campain (1.5h press conference) cited everything from USB stick attacks, to children with smartphones changing votes, to 'simple operators - using a drag and drop system' (thats usually prevented by statistical spot checks), to admins have that capability, which is a scandal (issue: this is a design capability of every computer system - that you cant get rid of 'designwise').

And frankly - we dont have the time to explain to a 60 year old lawyer how computers work, in court - while she is trying to turn over or repeat national elections.

Based on an account of 'a Hugo Chavez official was reminded of machine voting fraud in his country - he saw, when they had to turn off the entire internet to do it -- and then saw, that in the US voting was stopped in Georgia in some districts, because of a 'voting machine bug' -- it was practically the same.) Why they had to turn off the entire internet in Venezuela to do it (where all voting mashines were connected to the internet), I have no idea.

But frankly - I try not to let my 60 year old grandma citing a military official explain to me how computers work, after the first 7 times nothing of what she is saying makes sense.

Also I dont drop that notion the first time I hear the word 'biblical' out of her mouth. Because now I'd know she is a good christian.
--------------------------------------------------



edit:

Here is the other angle you could drive:
If you know your personal future is in setting up a news network that is reliant on dump people getting fed conspiracy theories, getting more radicalized by the minute, and then politically molded to vote fore a certain candidate.

- Which is the get rich quick scheme of every moron. (Make me a cult.)
- Which worked as a model with evangelicals in the US before.

Why not use all the individually small instances of voting fraud that are even theoretically possible. And I mean all of them. Pronounce them a big problem. Make sure you can 'personalize them' by setting up a call in hotline for people to report on personal experiences.

And then destroy the believe in the democratic system - to a point - by filing 40 lawsuits at once. And having one of your laywers talk about the overreaching conspiracy theory, that 'frames it all'.

Which also includes - Communists, Cuba, Venezuela, Germany, Soros, Antifa. is aimed at 'destroying your constitution' and 'has impact that will be biblical' - once revealed.

I'm sorry, but are you maybe trying to manipulate people here, just by feeding them triggerwords? And commands like - 'switch over to newsmax' coming from the POTUS twitter account?

Trump academy - reloaded?

Now with more Alex Jones?


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## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

Alex Jones was unironically the savant of liberals in the late 90's.  Times have changed.


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## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> No it's interesting that UltraSUPRA brought his name up for absolutely no fucking reason other than to piss me and the other trans members on the site off knowing fine well that John Money is hated by the trans community and pretty much every scientist alive.
> 
> And please show me where I have ever ranked pedophiles. There is no need to rank them they are all the same vile scum.



*everyone alive.  But yeah, I suppose it is fair for you to be especially "offended" by that, as a transgender.

Do you remember the time you decided that Biden's position as a child sniffer did not matter because Giuliani was presented as a pedophile by Borat on his new movie?


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *everyone alive.  But yeah, I suppose it is fair for you to be especially "offended" by that, as a transgender.
> 
> Do you remember the time you decided that Biden's position as a child sniffer did not matter because Giuliani was presented as a pedophile by Borat on his new movie?



Once again you continue with your history of changing the meaning of what was actually said. 

I never fucking once said it didn't matter I said you were all hypocrites for calling Biden a pedo when your soon to be ex presidents lawyer was just as bad and your star witness to voter fraud was a convicted pedophile.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Alex Jones was unironically the savant of liberals in the late 90's.  Times have changed.


Hey - he even taught me a few things (one or two), but you have to admit, that he then went 3000% off the rails, once realizing how much popular attention he could garner, and what the best way was to sell - water filters, prepper kits, and vitamin pills (coincidently the highest margin items advertisable to stupid people, that only need someone ordering chinese crap in bulk from aliexpress) -- being caught in FUD narratives.

From someone who by then perverted every news item he 'discovered', to fit a narrative that kept people anxious and fearful for no effing reason.

(Not that the water system catastrophe in Flint was a FUD narrative - but he sold his water filters nationwide.)


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

pic.twitter.com/S3kFsIRGmi— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) November 20, 2020


*Subversion*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion


> Subversion (from the Latin word subvertere, 'overthrow') refers to a process by which the values and principles of a system in place are contradicted or reversed, in an attempt to transform the established social order and its structures of power, authority, hierarchy, and social norms. Subversion can be described as an attack on the public morale and, "the will to resist intervention are the products of combined political and social or class loyalties which are usually attached to national symbols. Following penetration, and parallel with the forced disintegration of political and social institutions of the state, these loyalties may be detached and transferred to the political or ideological cause of the aggressor".





> Subversion is used as a tool to achieve political goals because it generally carries less risk, cost, and difficulty as opposed to open belligerency. Furthermore, it is a relatively cheap form of warfare that does not require large amounts of training. A subversive is something or someone carrying the potential for some degree of subversion. In this context, a "subversive" is sometimes called a "traitor" with respect to (and usually by) the government in power.


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## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

New angle, this time institutional.

Trump might also be in it to employ a 'scorched earth' exit strategy, which would benefit the GOP in the next elections.

They are currently refusing to hand over information important for a smooth transitioning process (Including Covid data). His finance minister has ordered the FED to stop their Corona assistance measures for businesses at the end of the year and to not prolong them. And he has ordered back troops from Afghanistan that were positioned there for internal 'stability purposes' (preventing a power vacuum, which can always be used by moneyed interests) - meaning, those are all actions, that will make a transition rocky.

Also the last one more or less directly benefits russia again.  (Power distribution in the region.)


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 22, 2020)

trump s a fucking lunatic. i'm amazed he didn't start ww3 during his reign! there is no way he is stepping down peacefully. the real show is yet to come


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## Doran754 (Nov 22, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> trump s a fucking lunatic. i'm amazed he didn't start ww3 during his reign! there is no way he is stepping down peacefully. the real show is yet to come



Brought troops home, stability to the middle east, north korea to the table, de esculated tensions with Russia. THAT FUCKING MADMAN


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

*‘Not How The Constitution Works’: Trump Campaign’s Biggest Election Lawsuit Fails In Court*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...election-lawsuit-fails-in-court-pennsylvania/


> Though the campaign has made a number of general allegations about voter fraud and alleged improprieties with how Pennsylvania’s votes were counted, *the campaign did not provide any specific evidence of voter fraud in the lawsuit*, and Giuliani specifically said during a hearing, “*This is not a fraud case.*”





> U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann* dismissed the case* Saturday with prejudice and decried the Trump campaign’s “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations,” which are “*unsupported by evidence*.”



*Pennsylvania GOP Sen. Toomey Says Trump Should Accept Election Loss*
https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-...toomey-says-trump-should-accept-election-loss


> Following yet another legal setback, *Republican* Sen. Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania *called on President Trump to accept the outcome of the Nov. 3 election* and move forward with the transition process in order to protect his presidential legacy.





> "President Trump has exhausted all plausible legal options to challenge the result of the presidential race in Pennsylvania," Toomey said in a lengthy statement.  "Make no mistake about it, I am deeply disappointed that President Trump and Vice President Pence were not re-elected. I endorsed the president and voted for him," he said.


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## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Brought troops home, stability to the middle east, north korea to the table, de esculated tensions with Russia. THAT FUCKING MADMAN


When.

Brought troups home in the week after recognition has set in, that hes leaving, against all his generals pleas. Just for pandering and more chaos. (And the benefit of those troups and their families. Probably. Also Probably - short term. If there are structural US interests in that region (which to be honest, I dont see)).

Stabilized the middle east is a myth - if you believe that Jarreeeed did that you are high. This was a decades long diplomatic and military effort, that had Saudi Arabia bind itself to Israel more closely, destroying all historic or ethnic claims in the region. (Its the oil produces and the nation that didnt exist before the aftermath of WW2 - vs, whatever who cares, the other ones are too small. But thats actually 'good' - if you look at it from a purely western interests stability POV).
Also this included, weakening the Saudis to the point where they would swallow it, which happened at a generational transition point for them, after many of their diversification ventures havent panned out optimally. That Trump was there at that point in time, really was just coincidental.

If you can tell me what 'Jarred' did there, I'd be amazed.

North Korea is off the table, but that doesnt matter much. That it was on the table at all was lobbying from south korea, which saw a historical chance (also at a generational handover), the US wanted several times in a row to just drop it and scram, which ultimately they did. But diplomatic channels are opened, which kind of is the point of letting Kim Jong-un study in the west...

So for all the BS you are flipping, what of those arent just 'exit gifts' GOP handed Trump to be able to tell the world he had done something?

Only thing he really was good for was to appoint GOP judges, as far as I could glean.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Pick one.



No need, I pick both. The Bible does a great job outlining certain behaviors and their consequences. It's just an old book that you don't take literally. If you learn how to read it then maybe you'd see some truth and those truths are still valid to this day. It's weird that we have psychology, which is basically founded by religious principles, that can't explain a lot of things that a 2000 year old book already explained a long time ago. Oh well, the Devil wants to keep you from it so thinking its all fairy tails and mumbo jumbo is exactly what the Devil wants you to think. Your loss, not mine.


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## VinsCool (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Brought troops home, stability to the middle east, north korea to the table, de esculated tensions with Russia. THAT FUCKING MADMAN


As much as I am not a fan of President Donald Trump, I must admit, meeting the North Korean leader took balls.
I doubt anyone else would have dared to do it.


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## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> As much as I am not a fan of President Donald Trump, I must admit, meeting the North Korean leader took balls.
> I doubt anyone else would have dared to do it.


No one but Dennis Rodman.

For some reason I always have the image in my mind, that the Washington establishement literally shoved him over to live his prince and leader real world president experience, where little to nothing was on the line.

For some reason this also always reminds me of the India video, where Modi always had this debilitating smile on, doublechecking on how Trump was feeling every 30 seconds, and was play acting the serve role. Maybe thats why.

That state visit went over much better.

edit: https://qz.com/india/1807305/trump-tries-to-woo-modis-india-with-bollywood-cricket-but-fails/

edit2: There we go this is the video:


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> As much as I am not a fan of President Donald Trump, I must admit, meeting the North Korean leader took balls.
> I doubt anyone else would have dared to do it.


One is a deranged dictator the other is the leader of North Korea


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 22, 2020)

notimp said:


> When.
> 
> Brought troups home in the week after recognition has set in, that hes leaving, against all his generals pleas. Just for pandering and more chaos. (And the benefit of those troups and their families. Probably. Also Probably - short term. If there are structural US interests in that region (which to be honest, I dont see)).
> 
> ...



I'll sum your whole reply up. 



"did it at the end so doesn't count m8 nahhhh"

"myth m8 nahhh"

"jared something something nahh m8"

South Korea did it innit m8 nah"

you're right, Trump is responsible for nothing good and everything bad.


----------



## IncredulousP (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Math had to go through HUNDREDS of years of changes to get where we are now.


Math doesn't change. It's our understanding and representations of mathematical concepts that evolve.


omgcat said:


> hundreds of years ago, newton thought gravity was an intrinsic force, but we now know that it is actually curves in space time, not a force


Gravity is 1 of 4 fundamental forces in nature. "Curves in space" is a gross oversimplification of a highly complex subject.


omgcat said:


> electron shells? shits not real, quantum mechanics explains the phenomenon better.


Electron shells are very real. They model the likelihood of a location of an electron, as applied to the electron wave model in quantum mechanics.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> "did it at the end so doesn't count m8 nahhhh"


It counts for what? Belittling people with a symbolic gesture of no value, that can and probably will be reversed in two months? Without saying a thing? (Bring the troops back from afghanistan.)

What an *sshole.

The deal between Israel and the United Arab Emirates was first sold as a piece deal, and then IMAGINED by you to have been the result of 'Trumps efforts in the region'. There were decades of war against terrorism splittergroups, some of which where sponsored by UAE proceeding, and more decades of infighting between the structural/religious powers in the region. And the loss of western interests in Syria. And all of a sudden, after a generational switchover in the leadership position in the UAE, which was commented as 'having weakened their position within the region, because of some of the decisions made, which didn't pan out well' - TRUMP arrives, and is the cause for a military and political alliance between UAE and israel?

While his envoy (Jareeeed) sets up an event that talks about 'economic investment in enslaved regions'? And what great job opportunities would arise from it? For the people. (Thats the 'freedom' angle that was tried to be presented).

Do you also believe in Santa Clause?

Also Trump as a negotiator? Are you kidding? I like him he is great. But also strong. Hey, let me in the middle of the picture!


South Korea did it - and actually the talks are off the table:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020042...9773d8-0a9b-11ea-8054-289aef6e38a3_story.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/tru...-pay-more-for-us-military-presence-there.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-usa-idUSKBN1XO0JM

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...-prioritize-denuclearization-talks-with-north


What can I do If you are impressed by pin on medals, somone sticks on another person for symbolic value.

The time Trump is celebrated for solving the Middle east problem is, right about when hell freezes over.
https://apnews.com/article/peace-pr...es-jerusalem-c87ca011c2cd4321d587e9684dfb84e1


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

*Trump Ally Chris Christie Calls President’s Election Challenges ‘A National Embarrassment’*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...election-challenges-a-national-embarrassment/


> Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie advised President Trump to give up on challenging the results of the 2020 election, criticizing the sustained legal fight without evidence as* “outrageous” and “wrong.”*





> Asked by ABC’s George Stephanopoulos on Sunday morning’s “This Week,” Christie, a longtime Trump backer, affirmed “yes” *it’s time for the president to give up* contesting the election.





> “The president had an opportunity to access the courts,” said Christie, adding that Trump’s legal team repeatedly has* failed to produce evidence*, calling the result “*a national embarrassment*.”





> “Look I’ve been a supporter of the president. I voted for him twice,” Christie told ABC, “but elections have consequences, and we cannot continue to act as if something happened here *that didn’t happen* here.”


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Trump Ally Chris Christie Calls President’s Election Challenges ‘A National Embarrassment’*
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...election-challenges-a-national-embarrassment/



Yawn, you keep spamming Liberal stories like there's no other side to this issue. Why not trying spamming some Conservative stories that are pro-Trump/anti-Biden or like discuss things without spamming?


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Yawn, you keep spamming Liberal stories like there's no other side to this issue. Why not trying spamming some Conservative stories that are pro-Trump/anti-Biden or like discuss things without spamming?


Fact check: Chris Christie, Mitt Romney, and Pat Toomey aren't liberals.
Fact check: Forbes & NPR aren't liberal websites.

It's Sunday.  Aren't you supposed to be in bible class?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

*Which States Have Certified Presidential Vote Totals*

The results reported right after the presidential election are reliable, but *they are not official*. The *official results will arrive in the coming weeks, after a process called certification.*

The details vary from state to state, but the point is for officials — sometimes called canvassers — to examine the raw numbers reported by precincts and verify that they are accurate and complete.

This starts at the county or municipal level, and then a state official or board must review the local certifications and certify the statewide totals. In presidential races, if states certify their results by the so-called safe harbor deadline — this year, it’s Dec. 8 — those results are largely insulated from further challenges.

States set their own deadlines, but they don’t always meet them: In Mississippi, for example, some counties certified their results late because staff members were out sick with the coronavirus. A missed state deadline isn’t necessarily a big deal. It’s the Dec. 8 deadline that really matters.

In some states, every county may have certified its results already, but it won’t be listed as complete until the state canvassers sign off.

Below is a list of certification deadlines for the key battleground states that President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. won. The Trump campaign’s strategy has been to try — so far unsuccessfully — to delay the certification processes in these states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/20/us/politics/2020-election-certification-tracker.html


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

Trump told by his own party to give up and to stop spreading lies about voter fraud. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/22/trump-republicans-pressure-fight-overturn-election


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Fact check: Chris Christie, Mitt Romney, and Pat Toomey aren't liberals.
> Fact check: Forbes & NPR aren't liberal websites.
> 
> It's Sunday.  Aren't you supposed to be in bible class?



You missed the "Pro-Trump/Anti-Biden" requirement.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You missed the "Pro-Trump/Anti-Biden" *requirement*.


"Requirement"


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> trump s a fucking lunatic. i'm amazed he didn't start ww3 during his reign! there is no way he is stepping down peacefully. the real show is yet to come



Meanwhile back in reality, Biden intends to redeploy the troops Trump has brought home from Iraq, Syria, Libya, & Afghanistan.

Trump is the first president in our lifetime who hasn't started a new war,

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



LumInvader said:


> Fact check: Chris Christie, Mitt Romney, and Pat Toomey aren't liberals.
> Fact check: Forbes & NPR aren't liberal websites.
> 
> It's Sunday.  Aren't you supposed to be in bible class?




Fact check: NPR Chris Christie & Mitt Romney are liberals and you can't fact check a entirely subjective statement.

And your religious right stereotypes haven't been accurate since the 90s, Trumps not even a conservative he is a Nationalist populist.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

> The UAE's minister of state for foreign affairs told the BBC that it had sensed an "opportunity" when Mr Netanyahu signalled he would press ahead with annexation earlier this year.
> 
> "Everybody was worried about the annexation of Palestinian lands, which was really a threat to the viability of the two-state solution," Anwar Gargash said.
> 
> "And I think this sort of brought our plans forward and gave us a reason, a clear reason and clear rationale, why a decision that we would have taken in 2021 or 2022 should be taken now."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54168120

Wow, so Trump. *amazeballs*


----------



## SG854 (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> One is a deranged dictator the other is the leader of North Korea


One speaks a language I don't understand and the other is North Korean.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> One is a deranged dictator the other is the leader of North Korea


If you can call your leader a dictator, he's not a dictator.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Meanwhile back in reality, Biden intends to redeploy the troops Trump has brought home from Iraq, Syria, Libya, & Afghanistan.
> 
> Trump is the first president in our lifetime who hasn't started a new war,
> 
> ...


... lol like how you get pissy when people label you and your friends  conservative.. but “fuck libs” is fine .. lol may God forgive your hypocrisy


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Trump told by his own party to give up and to stop spreading lies about voter fraud.
> 
> https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/22/trump-republicans-pressure-fight-overturn-election



Hey, air this out a little more  :



> On Friday, the president met with Republican leaders from Michigan at the White House in a wild attempt to sway them and leaders in other battleground states in the electoral college to set aside the will of the people and declare Trump the winner, despite officials at local and federal level declaring it the most secure election in American history.
> 
> In the latest setback to Trump’s efforts, Matthew Brann, a Republican US district court judge in Pennsylvania, threw out the Trump campaign’s request to disenfranchise almost 7 million voters there.
> 
> “This claim, like Frankenstein’s Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together from two distinct theories in an attempt to avoid controlling precedent,” he wrote in a damning order, issued on Saturday.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you can call your leader a dictator, he's not a dictator.


 lol well you can’t until he is toppled ..so Jan 20


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol well you can’t until he is toppled ..so Jan 20


If you can vote against your leader, your leader isn't a dictator.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you can vote against your leader, your leader isn't a dictator.


Putin? 



> Incumbent President Vladimir Putin has the right to seek re-election. Despite the two-term limit, Putin has been granted the right to run again for two more terms, after the 2020 constitutional reform. The winner of the election is scheduled to be inaugurated on 7 May 2024.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Russian_presidential_election


> The constitutional amendment proposed by lawmaker and former cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova — who gained fame in 1963 as the first woman in space — resets the current term limits, which limit Russian presidents to two consecutive six-year terms. Russians are scheduled to vote on the proposed amendment on April 22 in a nationwide constitutional referendum.


https://www.npr.org/2020/03/10/814090121/putin-could-stay-president-until-2036-under-new-proposal

So the list goes:

Putin
Putin
Putin crony
Putin
Putin

and then

Putin
Putin

All as a democratically elected leader of a free country (*cough*)






Also sorry for having included the outcome of the next two elections. 

Hey in the US you at least have dynasties..


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

I found this on TheDonald.WIN a few days ago.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you can vote against your leader, your leader isn't a dictator.


Oh I forget your a baby you don’t remember that counties with dictator vote too. A dictator then invalidates all the vote and elects himself.. oh wait you do remember cause it’s just happened in Pennsylvania.. but your right a right dictator would have had Rudy win the lawsuit instead of being laughed out of court.. soo your right Trump just a wanna be dictator..


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you can call your leader a dictator, he's not a dictator.


free speech restrictions are not required for a dictatorship



UltraSUPRA said:


> If you can vote against your leader, your leader isn't a dictator.


putin is considered a dictator by international organizations, but the ability to vote remains


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I found this on TheDonald.WIN a few days ago.
> View attachment 234991


 lol just like you maga-tards.. you believe anything  my drunk uncle bob post. Instead of Real News lolol I can sell you the Brooklyn bridge too. You gullible imbecile


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I found this on TheDonald.WIN a few days ago.


imagine being so desperate you repost trolls from facebook


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> imagine being so desperate you repost trolls from facebook


Howzabout something coming straight from the horse's mouth?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Howzabout something coming straight from the horse's mouth?
> View attachment 234992


It’s funny how you are grasping at straws for voter fraud.  Most of the Republican officials bowed out .. but some desperate people trying to use comedy post to claim fraud lol


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 22, 2020)




----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> free speech restrictions are not required for a dictatorship
> 
> 
> putin is considered a dictator by international organizations, but the ability to vote remains




By every reasonable metric quality of life under Putin has improved as far as personal freedom & wealth, when has Russia not had authoritarian slanted leadership?  By Russian standards & history Putin is fucking Bernie Sanders.

If you want to fixate on a brutal regime, oppressing their people and fucking around in our elections I suggest China.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43210257


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Howzabout something coming straight from the horse's mouth?



Man has no rally support, because they cancelled all rallies because of Covid spread risks.

You don't read the news, do you?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Howzabout something coming straight from the horse's mouth?
> View attachment 234992[/QU





jimbo13 said:


> By every reasonable metric quality of life under Putin has improved as far as personal freedom & wealth, when has Russia not had authoritarian slanted leadership?  By Russian standards & history Putin is fucking Bernie Sanders.
> 
> If you want to fixate on a brutal regime, oppressing their people and fucking around in our elections I suggest China.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43210257


oh soo I just sAw on Craigslist a guy was selling electoral votes for 100 bucks... you guys need to jump on this.


Don’t worry it’s real. It’s listed on Donald.win soo it’s def real

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234993




*“It’s Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.” – Mark Twain*
*Soo true that’s why I just make fun of you instead of trying to tell you trump scammed you*


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


>


1. Whats your data source, because this says, death rate grew since 2013 and will do so until 2050. (Population getting older.)
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

2. F*ck your memes, really.

edit: Also this:
https://theconversation.com/up-to-204-691-extra-deaths-in-the-us-so-far-in-this-pandemic-year-143139


WHATS YOUR DATA SOURCE?

Here are CDC provisional numbers. ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/provisional-tables.htm ) Released from Jan-June which add up to 1.626.000. If you double that you are at 3.2 mio deaths in 2020 and not at 2.487.000


edit:
*US sees 20% more deaths than expected this year, most due to Covid-19, research finds
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/12/health/us-deaths-covid-19-pandemic-jama-study/index.html*


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Howzabout something coming straight from the horse's mouth?
> View attachment 234992


As the orange man would say himself fake news fake news

He didn't say what you are claiming at all.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...s/video-misrepresents-bidens-speech-michigan/


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

Here is another posting just to call you an effing ahole.



UltraSUPRA said:


>


*Meme Distorts Facts on Annual Death Statistics*

*https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/meme-distorts-facts-on-annual-death-statistics/*

From 2 days ago. When do you learn?



> The number of deaths cited for 2020 — 2,487,350, as of Nov. 16 — was taken that day from a table published by the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics.
> 
> The table, however, only accounted for deaths from Feb. 1 through Nov. 14, so it doesn’t include any deaths that occurred in January 2020 — or, of course, any that will occur in the final weeks of the year.



Deaths in January of 2020 were 264.000
Deaths on average for the 6 weeks not listed are:

2487350/42 (weeks) = 59222
59222*6 = 355332

2487350 + 264000 + 355332 = 3.106.682 projected death number for 2020. 

And that is without a covid spike higher than average, in the next 6 weeks, which is likely to happen.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check: NPR Chris Christie & Mitt Romney are liberals and you can't fact check a entirely subjective statement.


Fact check: Political positions are *not* "entirely subjective statements" because, unlike feelings, they can be measured.
Fact check: NPR is *not* a liberal website:


> https://www.allsides.com/news-source/npr-media-bias* (center)*
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ *(left-center to least biased)*



Fact check: Chris Christie is *not* a liberal:


> *- Voted 2x for Donald Trump*
> *- Pro-life*
> *- Against income tax increases and for income tax cuts*
> *- For downsizing government*
> ...



Sorry, but* no liberal on the planet* would ever support all of these positions.

Fact check: Mitt Romney is *not* a liberal according to his actual voting record:


> Anyone under 50% leans *liberal*
> Anyone above 50% leans *conservative*.





> Mitt Romney: Trump voting record: *82.1%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/mitt-romney/
> 
> Mitch McConnell - Trump voting record: *94.3%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/mitch-mcconnell/





> Lisa Murkowski - Trump voting record: *74.8%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/lisa-murkowski/
> 
> Susan Collins - Trump voting record: *66.9%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/susan-m-collins/



Compared to ACTUAL liberals:


> Nancy Pelosi - Trump voting record: *17.6%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/nancy-pelosi/
> 
> Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - Trump voting record: *14.3%*
> ...


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Fact check: Political positions are *not* "entirely subjective statements" because, unlike feelings, they can be measured.
> Fact check: NPR is *not* a liberal website:
> 
> 
> ...


No ...real facts are the natural enemy of MAGA


----------



## Ev1l0rd (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Compared to ACTUAL liberals:


I wouldn't call AOC or Sanders liberals. Those two are Social Democrats moreso (with AOC having a slightly more Democratic Socialist bend).


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 234993


Imagine thinking Facebook is a reliable source.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> Imagine thinking Facebook is a reliable source.


The scary thought is that a lot of really do think that


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> I wouldn't call AOC or Sanders liberals. Those two are Social Democrats moreso (with AOC having a slightly more Democratic Socialist bend).


That's fair. 

I included them in this exercise because 1) We all know who they are and 2) their voting records lean liberal and AOC is a Democrat, while Sanders is an Independent who caucuses with the Democrats.

Here are a couple more liberal leaning Democrats that everyone here should be familiar with:


> Adam Schiff - Trump voting record: *14.4%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/adam-schiff/
> 
> Kamala D. Harris - Trump voting record: *16.1%*
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/kamala-d-harris/


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Guy posts his intention to commit voter fraud on facebook.
> 
> Libtards on here "doiii he was joking its not real LOL you'll believe anything you moron omg you sooo stuuupiddd"
> 
> Same libtards for 4 years: "RUSSIAAAAA "


Yes the only difference is voter fraud was taken from Facebook and Russia was FBI AND OTHER USA security dept. one is not the same as the other lol


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yes the only difference is voter fraud was taken from Facebook and Russia was FBI AND OTHER USA security dept. one is not the same as the other lol



They're not the same you're correct, one was a mass con perpetrated by every media outlet, news, big tech company you can name with absolutely no proof for FOUR YEARS, the other isn't.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

I will call you pathetic.. for thinking Facebook post is on the same level as a government agency lol

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



shamzie said:


> They're not the same you're correct, one was a mass con perpetrated for four years by every media outlet, news, big tech company you can name with absolutely no proof for FOUR YEARS, the other isn't.


Lol yup your right... one has no proof ( voter fraud) and the other isn’t


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 22, 2020)

You'll call me pathetic? Wow, how will i go on with my life. FeelsBadMan, I'm gonna borrow Bubba Wallaces noose.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You'll call me pathetic? Wow, how will i go on with my life. FeelsBadMan, I'm gonna borrow Bubba Wallaces noose.


 lol thanx showing your true colors again..
lol 
Your desperation tears feeds me .. please go on about how the lawsuits will work to overturn the votes lolol


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Fact check: Political positions are *not* "entirely subjective statements" because, unlike feelings, they can be measured.
> Fact check: NPR is *not* a liberal website:
> 
> 
> ...




Ultra super duper triple Fact check:

AOC and Pelosi are not Liberals, one is a progressive one is a marxist.

Trump is not a conservative, he is a moderate populist and voting with him does not make you a conservative

Barack Obama & Biden both opposed same sex marriage when elected.  

Mitt Romney was a pro-choice governor of Massachusetts, he is a scummy corporatist that probably has no ideological loyalty but the majority of his policies have been liberal. Being Governor of Mass forever disqualifies you from identifying as a conservative, Ron Paul is a conservative. Bernie Sanders is a liberal.   AOC is a Marxist, Pelosi is a feminist progressive.

Romney & Christie are establishment whores that protect their jobs and have never demonstrated a consistent principal in their life.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol thanx showing your true colors again..
> lol
> Your desperation tears feeds me .. please go on about how the lawsuits will work to overturn the votes lolol



"lololollolol facebook isn't real life my uncle was joking bro why you mad innit lolzlolzlolz"


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> "lololollolol facebook isn't real life my uncle was joking bro why you mad innit lolzlolzlolz"


 you say that but I don’t think you believe that in your heart of hearts

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Ultra super duper triple Fact check:
> 
> AOC and Pelosi are not Liberals, one is a progressive one is a marxist.
> 
> ...


The soo sad.. it’s like when you go fishing and the fish starts flapping around till it dies ... your flapping


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> you say that but I don’t think you believe that in your heart of hearts



"RuSsIA wAs ReAl ThE TeLeViSiOn ToLd Me So LoL YoU'rE SoOoOo GuLliBlE aNd StUpID"
"lOl YoU BeLiEvE eVeRyThInG yOu SeE oN fAcEbOoK, mOrOn LoL lOl LoL"


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

shamzie said:


> "RuSsIA wAs ReAl ThE TeLeViSiOn ToLd Me So LoL YoU'rE SoOoOo GuLliBlE aNd StUpID"
> "lOl YoU BeLiEvE eVeRyThInG yOu SeE oN fAcEbOoK, mOrOn LoL lOl LoL"
> View attachment 234997


Lol someone starting to crack


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Ultra super duper triple Fact check:
> 
> AOC and Pelosi are not Liberals, one is a progressive one is a marxist.
> 
> ...


You appear to be arguing for the sake of argument, as the breadth of your rebuttals have already been demonstrably refuted in my previous post.

- Trump's positions are mostly conservative, *not* liberal.
- AOC's and Pelosi's voting records *lean far left* -- on the opposite side of the spectrum from conservative Mitt Romney.
- Mitt Romney votes along the Republican party line *over 3/4 of the time*.  Your liberal claim is demonstrably false.
- Obama and Biden *reversed* their positions on same-sex marriage.  Chris Christie *has not*.  Unlike Obama and Biden, Chris Christie supported all of the following conservative positions:


> *- Voted 2x for Donald Trump*
> *- Pro-life*
> *- Against income tax increases and for income tax cuts*
> *- For downsizing government*
> ...



I repeat, no liberal would* ever* support all of these conservative positions.  Additionally, a liberal would never vote along the Republican party line the way Chris Christie does.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> You appear to be arguing for the sake of argument, as the breadth of your rebuttals have already been demonstrably refuted in my previous post.
> 
> - Trump's positions are mostly conservative, *not* liberal.
> - AOC's and Pelosi's voting records *lean far left* -- on the opposite side of the spectrum from conservative Mitt Romney.
> ...


Oh I thought the point was they started calling anyone who didn’t have cult-like faith in Trump a lib... that’s why they attacking normal republicans who are not Lying for Trump


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Oh I thought the point was they started calling anyone who didn’t have cult-like faith in Trump a lib... that’s why they attacking normal republicans who are not Lying for Trump


The cult-like transformation has been remarkable.

2016: Lock her up!  Lock her up!
2020: Fox news sucks!  Fox news sucks!

That "they eat their own" meme has not aged well.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

Why the US is still in afghanistan, apparently:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Asia/0114DormandyKeating.pdf

Heavent read it in full - someone summarize for me.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> You appear to be arguing for the sake of argument, as the breadth of your rebuttals have already been demonstrably refuted in my previous post.
> 
> 
> I repeat, no liberal would* ever* support all of these conservative positions.  Additionally, a liberal would never vote along the Republican party line the way Chris Christie does.
> ...



*Kamehameha god tier Fact Check no backsies:*

You appear to think using bloated language from your _word of the day _calendar bolsters your vapid opinion of the political spectrum. The only thing more shallow than your view of the ideological range is your ability to have views outside of a limited mainstream two party orthodoxy.

Donald Trump's foreign policy has been the most liberal aggressively anti-war policy in the history of modern politics.

No Liberal would support a warmonger like Biden that has voted for every military action we have engaged in for the last 40 years.

Christ Christie was a governor, not a senator or congressman and has never cast a vote "along party lines."

Voting for Donald Trump is not a conservative position by default, the keystone Pipeline is not a conservative position by default.  Conservatives oppose imminent domain, Keystone XL is impossible when a society does not violate private property rights.

No one gives a shit about  circa 1990's religious right social conservatism issues, no one is going after your street sodomy parades and hormone issues.

Liberals are reasonable people who often have good ideas, progressives are identity pimps & globalist authoritarians and you should stop slandering Liberals by associating them with Pelosi and the DNC.

Ralph Nader is a liberal, and neither Pelosi, AOC or their supporters are smart enough to understand the difference.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> None of those are the same thing and many individuals of those descriptions would be offended by your grouping and they are "Not a problem".
> 
> No country in western civilization is mass murdering anyone in these groups, If you want to deal with those issues your going to have to go the middle east. None of those classifications require public disclosure discussion, or identification of any kind to live there life just like anyone else, I don't see any adjustment needed for >5% of the population for a trait that I don't need to be informed about or is any of my business.
> 
> You lose support when you start assigning people tasks with that "We as a society" garbage.  There is no we, I am not a collectivist and I am not in your commune.



I'd consider 30+ individuals killed per year in America alone mass murder. although i guess compared to historical killings by Christians 30 is rookie numbers so it isn't a problem. also pick one, either we "are a collection of cooperating states and people" or we are not. you don't get to enjoy the benefits of being in a collective society like America and claim you're not a collectivist. you don't really value lives as much as your religion thinks you should, nor do you treat others with kindness and respect. If i was a religious person that believes in permanent judgement you better believe I'd actually be thumbing through and reading my doctrine, not cherry picking shit. At this point I'm going to end this sub-topic since we are going in circles/nowhere.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Kamehameha god tier Fact Check no backsies:*
> 
> You appear to think using bloated language from your _word of the day _calendar bolsters your vapid opinion of the political spectrum. The only thing more shallow than your view of the ideological range is your ability to have views outside of a limited mainstream two party orthodoxy.
> 
> ...


----------



## tabzer (Nov 22, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Once again you continue with your history of changing the meaning of what was actually said.
> 
> I never fucking once said it didn't matter I said you were all hypocrites for calling Biden a pedo when your soon to be ex presidents lawyer was just as bad and your star witness to voter fraud was a convicted pedophile.



You say you aren't saying that it doesn't matter, but then immediately say it doesn't matter.  Hypocrisy is more important to point out, even though it's not there.  You are deflecting criticism from Biden using "people who are just as bad exist".  They are as much your people as Biden is.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Kamehameha god tier Fact Check no backsies:*
> 
> You appear to think using bloated language from your _word of the day _calendar bolsters your vapid opinion of the political spectrum. The only thing more shallow than your view of the ideological range is your ability to have views outside of a limited mainstream two party orthodoxy.
> 
> ...


lol you
Your are fascinating individual .. you type words but I don't think you know what any of it really means.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 22, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> The cult-like transformation has been remarkable.
> 
> 2016: Lock her up!  Lock her up!
> 2020: Fox news sucks!  Fox news sucks!
> ...



i'm loving the parlor memes of boycotting the GOP vote in the GA runoff because GA wasn't willing to fuck over their voters and flip the vote. we might get lucky and have these retards Jonestown themselves at this point. Donald trump is doing everything he can to fuck himself and the GOP by pulling attention away from the GA GOP runoff candidates.


----------



## notimp (Nov 22, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Donald Trump's foreign policy has been the most liberal aggressively anti-war policy in the history of modern politics.


https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/trump-administration-isis-al-qaeda

https://journals.openedition.org/lisa/10157?lang=en

You had an Iraq war that didnt pay off, followed by a financial crisis, followed by a pandemic - so who in the world except from the region with the power vacuum after the Iraq debacle was going to make trouble? Pretty much every one currently is concerned with domestic issues.

Please stop looking at that picture:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/terrorists-are-losing-and-peace-is-breaking-out/

And believe its the truth. Read the AP article I posted.
edit: Here: https://apnews.com/article/peace-pr...es-jerusalem-c87ca011c2cd4321d587e9684dfb84e1

edit: Why should you not believe that whitehouse.gov characterization? Well - here is Harry, for once...
https://cftni.org/expert/harry-kazianis/


----------



## djpannda (Nov 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> i'm loving the parlor memes of boycotting the GOP vote in the GA runoff because GA wasn't willing to fuck over their voters and flip the vote. we might get lucky and have these retards Jonestown themselves at this point. Donald trump is doing everything he can to fuck himself and the GOP by pulling attention away from the GA GOP runoff candidates.


yes I for one, Agree the TRUMPers need to boycott all elections from now on lolol


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You say you aren't saying that it doesn't matter, but then immediately say it doesn't matter.  Hypocrisy is more important to point out, even though it's not there.  You are deflecting criticism from Biden using "people who are just as bad exist".  They are as much your people as Biden is.


No I am saying its hypocritical to continously call Biden a pedo when your party is surrounded by them. How is that fucking hard for you to understand. Remember I have said several times all pedophiles are scum something you keep seeming to ignore or perhaps you need to improve your reading skills. Ether way you are a hypocrite for ignoring the scum that are supporting your soon to be ex president.


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 23, 2020)

personally all this bitching back and forth is really irking me can't wait for biden to take over so you all put a sock in it god forbid i was president (even though i'd be the "nicest" (Policy wise) dictator on earth at least i'd have the scene in mind by rolling back DMCA provisions (such as  allowing of hacking consoles legally for homebrew only (Piracy would still be illegal but at least companies won't touch people like SciresM) also SSI/DI reform etc I'm tired of this two sided system that always at each others throats nothing good ever gets done


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> No I am saying its hypocritical to continously call Biden a pedo when your party is surrounded by them. How is that fucking hard for you to understand. Remember I have said several times all pedophiles are scum something you keep seeming to ignore or perhaps you need to improve your reading skills. Ether way you are a hypocrite for ignoring the scum that are supporting your soon to be ex president.



I don't ignore it.  Also not my party.  You say that pedophiles are scum, but then you find a way to make hypocrisy a bigger deal.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

Thread is back to dark side vs light side accusing each other of pedophilia again?

Well - night, night.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

Something like that.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

notimp said:


> Thread is back to dark side vs light side accusing each other of pedophilia again?
> 
> Well - night, night.


Only because someone has a weird fixation with tagging me and bringing it up constantly.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

omgcat said:


> I'd consider 30+ individuals killed per year in America alone mass murder. although i guess compared to historical killings by Christians 30 is rookie numbers so it isn't a problem. also pick one, either we "are a collection of cooperating states and people" or we are not. you don't get to enjoy the benefits of being in a collective society like America and claim you're not a collectivist. you don't really value lives as much as your religion thinks you should, nor do you treat others with kindness and respect. If i was a religious person that believes in permanent judgement you better believe I'd actually be thumbing through and reading my doctrine, not cherry picking shit. At this point I'm going to end this sub-topic since we are going in circles/nowhere.




30 individuals in a year is not even a busy weekend in Chicago and a strong indication no one is singling these people out in the US.  30 a year is not mass targeted murder, it is practically being ignored entirely.

Odd you make it a christian thing when the middle east hangs at least 30 gay people every week, they use giant cranes and do it in a cheering stadium.

And I don't have any doctrine, I am not religious and stop projecting your 1990s religious right stereotype on to everyone capable of keeping their shirt on in public.

I've never entered a Christian church or attended services in my life, lately I been ironically praying for the simple fact you all act like a bunch of fucking demons which has been developing my faith in God.

I have a much stronger belief in a Kurzweil simulation and clockwork elves when I'm dosing DMT.

Dislike of the Alphabet society doesn't require a basis in faith, they're culturally obnoxious enough on their own.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 30 individuals in a year is not even a busy weekend in Chicago and a strong indication no one is singling these people out in the US.
> 
> Odd you make it a christian thing when the middle east hangs at least 30 gay people every week, the use giant cranes and do it in a cheering stadium.
> 
> ...


Shit hitting the fan faster then I thought 
“*Trump campaign cuts Sidney Powell from president’s legal team”*
She’s the crazy lady that said Hugo chavez came back from the dead to created Dominion. I guess they kicked her out because she couldn’t give any proof to Tucker


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Only because someone has a weird fixation with tagging me and bringing it up constantly.



Hey, you decided to bring up transgenderism and pedophilia; it's hard for me to forget your stance.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Hey, you decided to bring up transgenderism and pedophilia; it's hard for me to forget your stance.


Someone has weird fetishes


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Someone has weird fetishes


That's what I am seeing.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's what I am seeing.


Again your terrible reading skills failed you hint he was meaning you.





tabzer said:


> Hey, you decided to bring up transgenderism and pedophilia; it's hard for me to forget your stance.


Again your reading skills failed you here as both were brought up by another user first and then I said my bit about it and then you keep tagging me about it constantly.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Kamehameha god tier Fact Check no backsies:*
> 
> You appear to think using bloated language from your _word of the day _calendar bolsters your vapid opinion of the political spectrum. The only thing more shallow than your view of the ideological range is your ability to have views outside of a limited mainstream two party orthodoxy.
> 
> ...


- "The keystone Pipeline is not a conservative position by default."  This is demonstrably *false*.  Every-single-Republican in congress voted for the keystone pipeline except Justin Amash.
- A politician's political lean is based on the *totality* of their positions, not just a single position (war policy).
- Fact: Most of Trump's positions are* conservative*.
- You alleged that Chris Christie is a liberal.  His positions I've shared *strongly suggest* otherwise.  A liberal would vote against Trump 2x, *not for him* *2x*.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Shit hitting the fan faster then I thought
> “*Trump campaign cuts Sidney Powell from president’s legal team”*
> She’s the crazy lady that said Hugo chavez came back from the dead to created Dominion. I guess they kicked her out because she couldn’t give any proof to Tucker


Perhaps this is what Chris Christie meant when he called Trump's legal team a "*national embarrassment*?"


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> - "The keystone Pipeline is not a conservative position by default."  This is demonstrably *false*.  Every-single-Republican in congress voted for the keystone pipeline except Justin Amash.
> - A politician's political lean is based on the *totality* of their positions, not just a single position (war policy).
> - Fact: Most of Trump's positions are* conservative*.
> - You alleged that Chris Christie is a liberal.  His positions I've shared *strongly suggest* otherwise.  A liberal would vote against Trump 2x, *not for him* *2x*.




The terms conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, progressive mean things outside the scope of your opinion, and you don't have a basic understanding of those words or you wouldn't keep using them interchangeably.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The terms conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, progressive mean things outside the scope of your opinion, and you don't have a basic understanding of those words or you wouldn't keep using them interchangeably.



they're all soft science terms so i refuse to accept them.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The terms conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, progressive mean things outside the scope of your opinion, and you don't have a basic understanding of those words or you wouldn't keep using them interchangeably.


jimbo13 ran out of poorly researched rebuttals, so now he's resorting to ad hominum attacks.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

And FYI Sidney Powell was not fired by Trump, they are simply claiming she was never a employee so they can skirt RNC process rules.  She is "independent".

It's a process tactic, she's still on the job.


----------



## HarveyHouston (Nov 23, 2020)

Wow, politics. It's a mad circus of arguing over what's acceptable and how it should be run. You know what? *We just need Jesus Christ.* God didn't want us to have human leaders, in the first place, but since we do, then we just need to trust that God will put in place the leader that will either help people recover or expose their evils. I'll probably cause a few of you to think I'm crazy when I say that I believe we were meant to have Obama as president, despite his wickidness - actually, _because_ of his wickedness. God let him take over to show how much more we need God over people. By the grace of God given to us via his son, Jesus Christ,, I live by a higher standard, and I am proud to show my faith in what I believe to be right, even in a corrupt and violent world.

Dare I say it? Black Lives Matter. White Lives Matter. Gay lives, trans lives, and hetero lives matter. Male and females matter. Old people matter. Children matter. Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, and Christians - even Satanists! *All Lives Matter.* We all have faults, whether we think we do or not, but we all have some good in us, too. Our enemies are not each other, but the principalities of darkness - the unseen enemies - that manipulate us. These demons are our enemies, not the people being used by them. Know your true enemy, and the entire reality shall be seen. Defeat your true enemy, and you eliminate the problem.

Go ahead, scoff if you want! Tell me I'm wrong! However, there is coming a day in human history when we shall all know the Ultimate Truth - and we shall see who has been right all along. That day I believe is sooner than we think! On that day, all religions will be eliminated, and all political systems will be wiped off the face of the earth. Not even the New World Order will be able to last, for all human ideas of a unified utopia, or even segregated ones, will be gone for good, replaced by a new system that will last forever. 

That said, everyone who reads this should be wary of men who claim to bring peace and safety! For no one man can bring peace and safety, only destruction and tyrrany. If we want to be unified in harmony, we have to accept our INDIVIDUALITIES, and respect others' beliefs and ideas, even if they conflict with our own. Thomas Jefferson said "All men were created equal", but he did not take into account our personality traits - only certain freedoms and restraints that we share according to the Bible. Any man who uses equality as a means for unification should be tested with a great amount of scrutiny, as many of these "We are the World" methods have ended in failure!

I don't ask any of you to agree with everything I say; I only ask that you please think - and think hard! - before accepting what you think is truth to actually _be_ the truth. *Question everything!* Once you are sure that you have gotten it right... start over, because you may have missed something! This is what leads to greater learning, and hopefully people who make better decisions in the future. 

*God help the U.S.A.*


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> And FYI Sidney Powell was not fired by Trump, they are simply claiming she was never a employee so they can skirt RNC process rules.  She is "independent".
> 
> It's a process tactic, she's still on the job.


"Still on the job" proving that there is no wide-spread election fraud.  Watching Trump's lawyers get scolded by judges before dismissing most of their cases has been a pleasure to watch.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> "Still on the job" proving that there is no wide-spread election fraud.  Watching Trump's lawyers get scolded by judges before dismissing most of their cases has been a pleasure to watch.



*Spirit bomb universal warpdrive fact check ki level over 9000 with a slathering of creamy fact check on the side:
*
A attorney not being fired does not prove there is no wide-spread election fraud, they are distinct unrelated issues.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

HarvHouHacker said:


> *Question everything!*



If the Liberals would take this advice and question their own leaders and media most of them with brains would stop being Liberals. You know, once they realized most of what they have been told to think are lies. However, if you're a Liberal and start to question other Liberals they will attack you and you'll become an outcast. Not belonging is one of many things liberals fear. The Liberal leaders, media and education system teach you what to think, what not to think, what to do and what not to do. If you go against the establishment by doing something like questioning their beliefs you will be discarded as the Liberals don't need people thinking for themselves. It's always a good idea to question everything as you'll soon find out who is truthful and who is full of shit.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Spirit bomb universal warpdrive fact check ki level over 9000 with a slathering of creamy fact check on the side:
> *
> A attorney not being fired does not prove there is no wide-spread election fraud, they are distinct unrelated issues.


Lol sureeere. Trump literally stated she was part of the elite strike force and after everyone started to laugh they back peddling lol


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Spirit bomb universal warpdrive fact check ki level over 9000 with a slathering of creamy fact check on the side:
> *
> A attorney not being fired does not prove there is no wide-spread election fraud*, they are distinct unrelated issues.


I'm going to be polite here, ok?  I wasn't making that connection.  You misread the first half of my post.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

HarvHouHacker said:


> Wow, politics. It's a mad circus of arguing over what's acceptable and how it should be run. You know what? *We just need Jesus Christ.* God didn't want us to have human leaders, in the first place, but since we do, then we just need to trust that God will put in place the leader that will either help people recover or expose their evils. I'll probably cause a few of you to think I'm crazy when I say that I believe we were meant to have Obama as president, despite his wickidness - actually, _because_ of his wickedness. God let him take over to show how much more we need God over people. By the grace of God given to us via his son, Jesus Christ,, I live by a higher standard, and I am proud to show my faith in what I believe to be right, even in a corrupt and violent world.
> 
> Dare I say it? Black Lives Matter. White Lives Matter. Gay lives, trans lives, and hetero lives matter. Male and females matter. Old people matter. Children matter. Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, and Christians - even Satanists! *All Lives Matter.* We all have faults, whether we think we do or not, but we all have some good in us, too. Our enemies are not each other, but the principalities of darkness - the unseen enemies - that manipulate us. These demons are our enemies, not the people being used by them. Know your true enemy, and the entire reality shall be seen. Defeat your true enemy, and you eliminate the problem.
> 
> ...


oh a well spoken agurement ...but quick note be careful on how you use Thomas Jefferson as a relation between the Bible and Goverment .. as Jefferson was known to have a complicated relationship with religion. The Jefferson Bible has been called sacrilegious as not only does it cut and alter the Bible but the common thought is that Jefferson did not believe or care about supernatural miracles and only wanted to know about Jesus moral teachings.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 23, 2020)

Question everything, except Trump. We wouldn't want to do that.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

snipped


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Question everything, except Trump. We wouldn't want to do that.



I question him from a logical perspective and give him the benefit of the doubt. Your side simply refuses to cooperate and automatically takes the opposite position of whatever it is Trump chooses to say or do. Always rejecting whatever it is he does or says isn't logical because your motivation isn't about the truth, it's about your personal feelings (ie - hatred).


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Question everything, except Trump. We wouldn't want to do that.



You questioned him for four years over nonsense, whose not questioning him?

And to those that things are going to settle down, this was tonight in Cali

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/i/status/1330427657079713793


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You questioned him for four years over nonsense, whose not questioning him?
> 
> And to those that things are going to settle down, this was tonight in Cali
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1330427657079713793



It's good to see our side getting out and using their constitutional rights. I wonder how "peaceful" these protests will be? That's because the Leftist media not only stopped their "you must wear a mask and social distant" crap for their sides protests, but claimed looting, arson and murder were "peaceful". Gotta love how the Liberals are advancing our society by redefining words to their liking. /s


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You questioned him for four years over nonsense, whose not questioning him?
> 
> And to those that things are going to settle down, this was tonight in Cali
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1330427657079713793


So did you noticed the Irony from using a tweet from “kitty shackleford” Makes anything that’s said meaningless

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> It's good to see our side getting out and using their constitutional rights. I wonder how "peaceful" these protests will be? That's because the Leftist media not only stopped their "you must wear a mask and social distant" crap for their sides protests, but claimed looting, arson and murder were "peaceful". Gotta love how the Liberals are advancing our society by redefining words to their liking. /s


You smell like desperation ...


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Again your terrible reading skills failed you hint he was meaning you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My reading skills are fine. You like to deflect and project, and in turn support others who do the same.  Also, stop butchering the English language and propping up others who do the same, if literacy is a genuine concern of yours.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> My reading skills are fine.


your reading skills are ok ..the issue -appears to be your colloquial understanding of English


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> your reading skills are ok ..the issue -appears to be your colloquial understanding of English


That could be a lesson to learn, but you aren't one to inspire confidence.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 23, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Question everything, except Trump. We wouldn't want to do that.


Trump is pretty much the only person that you people do question.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That could be a lesson to learn, but you aren't one to inspire confidence.


Lol for all you know I could have a doctorate


UltraSUPRA said:


> Trump is pretty much the only person that you people do question.


no ... Trump and you mostly


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Lol for all you know I could have a doctorate


Sometimes I question if you know.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Shit hitting the fan faster then I thought
> “*Trump campaign cuts Sidney Powell from president’s legal team”*
> She’s the crazy lady that said Hugo chavez came back from the dead to created Dominion. I guess they kicked her out because she couldn’t give any proof to Tucker


That doesnt fit into my narrative...

So he really is that dumb, and not malicious?
What?
He really believed?

The entire 'come with me to alternative media network, where we talke about the communist voting mashines' gambit was based on, that they knew this was crazy - but seeded it anyhow... And now they stopped seeding?

Possible explanation, reps are really considering him for 2024 and have convinced him to stop the selfdestructive stuff... But even that feels counterintuitive.. I mean, what keeps them from pretending? Or do they still follow the narrative, but want another spokesperson for it on the helm?

I dont get it.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

Can we get a mod to change the title of this thread to reflect reality????

Here is how it should read:
*Joe Biden Has NOT Won - Will Not Become 46th president of the United States*

*
 *

Just FYI, @djpannda , I'm ignoring you, so I am missing out on all your wonderful words of wisdom.  It's a shame that I have to block such a hateful, racist, and ignorant "uninformed voter" such as yourself.  Don't stop sharing your wisdom that only shows how ignorant you are, so the other mush brains here can like your philosophical teachings.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Can we get a mod to change the title of this thread to reflect reality????
> 
> Here is how it should read:
> *Joe Biden Has NOT Won - Will Not Become 46th president of the United States*
> ...


Aww  Moron... I mean morvoran..I missed you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Can we get a mod to change the title of this thread to reflect reality????
> 
> Here is how it should read:
> *Joe Biden Has NOT Won - Will Not Become 46th president of the United States*
> ...



The thread should be called *"Progressives sharing their opinion preceded by the word fact"* but I will settle for *"Trumps 2nd term: Electric boogaloo".

*
Ditto on that ignore, he's 1 of 3 people I have on ignore.  I welcome vicious disagreement, name calling etc. I don't care, but he is a special kind of special.  If you wrote Trump on the ground he would bang his face on the floor and eat dirt till he ended up in China.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *"Trumps 2nd term: Electric boogaloo".*


 great title for a shitty movie that will never be produced lol


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The thread should be called *"Progressives sharing their opinion preceded by the word fact"* but I will settle for *"Trumps 2nd term: Electric boogaloo".*



Those titles may be too complex for the mush brained uninformed voters here.  How about "Orange Man Bad, REEEEEEEEEE!!!!  Biden is not Drumpf, Derp!!!"?


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I guess they kicked her out because she couldn’t give any proof to Tucker


That also doesnt make sense. Doesnt Trump understand, that Murdoch f*cked him over on election night and now is playing divide and conquer with FOX opinion pundits?

Does he believe that 'fake media' is genuine?

Yelp!

edit: Most likely thing now, is that they've convinced him to work on his legacy?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Those titles may be too complex for the mush brained uninformed voters here.  How about "Orange Man Bad, REEEEEEEEEE!!!!  Biden is not Drumpf, Derp!!!"?


Hey don’t be soo hard on yourself .. your an uninformed voter but your not mush brained .. so sad to see your self esteem that down after all the Lawsuits were thrown out


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 23, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I question him from a logical perspective and give him the benefit of the doubt. Your side simply refuses to cooperate and automatically takes the opposite position of whatever it is Trump chooses to say or do. Always rejecting whatever it is he does or says isn't logical because your motivation isn't about the truth, it's about your personal feelings (ie - hatred).


Has it come to mind that some people have legitimately thought about it and came to the conclusion that he is simply just isn't a good president? That not everyone that has voted him out is because of the media or based only on feelings?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Trump is pretty much the only person that you people do question.


There's a few people even here that questions Biden and still think he is better than Trump.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

Bilbo Bidens. *bwawahaha*

Have to explain 'fake media' above:
In media, there is news reporting, and there is opinion.

Opinion is for the stupid people with no time, but also sometimes useful to understand 'official positioning'. (And once you've understood positioning, its sometimes simply more low effort to watch it leasurely.  ).

News reporting is the stuff where they are supposed to be impartial, except for in cases when they arent (internal line of the paper, national interests, wanting to keep exclusive access, ...).

Now you have to understand, that on FOX news it doesnt just happen, that half of the opinion pundits (the ones with more pull) switch to 'critical of the administration' stance overnight. It simply doesnt happen. Thats script.

So in no world does it make sense, that you submit to that reality, and resort to defensive strategic action to convince 'one such pundit' (the most important one), to be with you again. By firing a lawyer from your legal team.

What the...

Now I'm scared of whats coming..  Murdoch either just laughs hysterically for the next year, or...


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

Here is your so-called "46th President" that you uninformed voters are so proud of:

He likes kids jumping on his lap:


Wow.... and you guys say Trump is racist even though Joe put black men in jail while Trump has been releasing them early:


--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> If you're living in a nursing home and spending most of your time on Facebook, maybe.
> 
> Satirical tweets are not memes.  Nor is that quarter-assed attempt at humor in tweet form that you posted.  Your first time on the internet?


Hopefully, it wasn't a nursing home in New York or Michigan.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be here to inform the silly mush brains.  Just FYI, democrat governors in those states killed thousands of older people by sending covid patients into nursing homes even though Trump gave the hospitals and ships for covid patients.  I wonder if Biden will finish the job they started?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Hopefully, it wasn't a nursing home in New York or Michigan. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here to inform the silly mush brains.


Yeah, you'd be dead like all the Trump supporters in Georgia who caused the state to flip blue, lmao.

Really though, nursing homes haven't been particularly safe from COVID in any state.  Which was part of what earned Trump the boot.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> There's a few people even here that questions Biden and still think he is better than Trump.


  That's why they are considered "uninformed voters".  If they were really "woke", they would see the shitshow that the democrat party is and how bad Biden is.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Yeah, you'd be dead like all the Trump supporters in Georgia who caused the state to flip blue, lmao.
> 
> Really though, nursing homes haven't been particularly safe from COVID in any state.  Which was part of what earned Trump the boot.


Funny you mention "dead" people.  Weren't those the category of people that put Joe above Trump in votes???

*Dead people show up to vote to help Joe Biden in his ‘battle for the soul’ of USA, pointing towards voter fraud: Report*


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Funny you mention "dead" people. Weren't those the category of people that put Joe above Trump in votes???


Nah, if dead people were voting, Trump would've had the race easy.  And if Dems were cheating, neither McConnell nor Graham would have won re-election.  You're just desperate and sad.  The guy you cemented your entire identity around is a loser, doomed to lose more and more relevance in the public sphere until he dies choking on a big mac in a few years (preferably in jail though that's not required).


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 23, 2020)

Looks like Trump wants to lose Georgia once again.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

Xzi said:


> And if Dems were cheating, neither McConnell nor Graham would have won re-election.


  That's because the cheaters were too lazy to fill in the circles of any other race than the one for president.  Try to keep up.



Xzi said:


> I'm just desperate and sad.


  I fixed this for you.



Xzi said:


> The guy you cemented your entire identity around is a loser, doomed to lose more and more relevance in the public sphere until he dies choking on a big mac in a few years.


  You must be confused.  I wasn't pushing for Bernie Sanders.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> *Dead people show up to vote to help Joe Biden in his ‘battle for the soul’ of USA, pointing towards voter fraud: Report*


Oh man dead people were voting dang. Rudy must of collected all that info because  it would be easy to present that to a court... man Rudy must be winning all these lawsuit ..... oh wait


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> That's because the cheaters were too lazy to fill in the circles of any other race than the one for president.


LMAO okay bud.  And bigfoot is leaving chemtrails.



morvoran said:


> You must be confused. I wasn't pushing for Bernie Sanders.


Yeah because that's a huge diss, Bernie Sanders is famously overweight.  

Remember that energy I said you were exuding earlier?  You're doing it again.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

I am looking forward to 20 more years of Trump,  Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> That's because the cheaters were too lazy to fill in the circles of any other race than the one for president.  Try to keep up..


Lol feels like he realized the truth but now he  just talking to keep up appearances


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

Xzi said:


> LMAO okay bud.  And bigfoot is leaving chemtrails.


*Sidney Powell claims there are 450,000 ballots that voted only for Biden, left the rest blank*

I would believe that claim about Bigfoot before I believed that Joe won legitimately and will become president.



Xzi said:


> Yeah because that's a huge diss, Bernie Sanders is famously overweight.
> Remember that energy I said you were exuding earlier?  You're doing it again.


  Oh, damn, we usually go 2-3 hours into our "pillow talk" before you stop trying to prove your point and just resort to slander.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> *Sidney Powell claims there are 450,000 ballots that voted only for Biden, left the rest blank*
> ..


 Lolol you mean the lady soo crazy that even Rudy couldn’t spin her crazy shit and kicked her out


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am looking forward to 20 more years of Trump


Just go live in North Korea bro.  Trump said Kim Jong Un is a great guy and he's president for life.  You trust Trump, don't you?



morvoran said:


> Sidney Powell claims there are 450,000 ballots that voted only for Biden, left the rest blank


"Claims."  Who the fuck is Sidney Powell and what the fuck is the Post Millennial?  Never mind, let's call that rhetorical.  All that matters is every legal challenge by Trump intended to flip any state has failed.  At some point it's bordering on sedition or treason.



morvoran said:


> Oh, damn, we usually go 2-3 hours into our "pillow talk" before you stop trying to prove your point and just resort to slander.


I mean I might as well give it to you straight now that I have the high ground and your piece of shit cult leader was defeated in a landslide.  You're going through the stages of grief like all the other pathetic Trumpettes.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

Xzi said:


> "Claims." Who the fuck is Sidney Powell and what the fuck is the Post Millennial?


 Well, I was calling your type "uninformed voters", but you're just uninformed.



Xzi said:


> All that matters is every legal challenge by Trump intended to flip any state has failed.


  His legal team hasn't even begun to fight all the fraud yet.  They are just in the "opening statement" phase of their lawsuits.  I guess you didn't watch their press conference.  Maybe because CNN didn't show it on Bryan Stelter's show, huh?





Xzi said:


> At some point it's bordering on sedition or treason.


  Just like stealing an election?  I think your side has more to lose.



Xzi said:


> I mean I might as well give it to you straight now that I have the high ground


I agree that the deepstate and the swamp have the advantage right now, but Trump will have his 2nd term.  Just wait.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> your piece of shit cult leader was defeated in a landslide. You're going through the stages of grief like all the other pathetic Trumpettes.



Hmm, I don't see any Trump supporters burning down minority neighborhoods and killing minorities such as Biden voters and Bernie Bro's have been doing for the past several months.  How are you handling your guy Bernie rolling over for the DNC yet again? Does it still "Bern"???


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Just go live in North Korea bro.  Trump said Kim Jong Un is a great guy and he's president for life.  You trust Trump, don't you?



I have no reason to go live in North Korea, I am very happy with the direction Trump is talking the country.  Despite the entire brunt of the establishment against him he has made great progress rolling back 30 years of the Bush crime families corruption.

We have two choices in North Korea, make peace or war.  I am guessing your not on the way to the recruitment office.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, I was calling your type "uninformed voters", but you're just uninformed.
> 
> His legal team hasn't even begun to fight all the fraud yet.  They are just in the "opening statement" phase of their lawsuits.  I guess you didn't watch their press conference.  Maybe because CNN didn't show it on Bryan Stelter's show, huh?
> 
> ...



Lol have you really saw the whole press conference?.. it was sad to see America’s mayor become the Aliens meme


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> His legal team hasn't even begun to fight all the fraud yet.


Good, judges are threatening to start having his lawyers disbarred.



morvoran said:


> Just like stealing an election? I think your side has more to lose.


Trump has the most to lose by far.  He's hundreds of millions in debt, the bills are coming due after he's on the street, and he's going to be facing criminal charges on the state level at least.



morvoran said:


> I agree that the deepstate and the swamp


What deep state?  What swamp?  Trump appointed everybody in government/intelligence agencies currently, remember?  If there's a swamp, he put every single piece of it there intentionally.  Speaking of which, look at this swamp monster LMAO:







morvoran said:


> Trump will have his 2nd term. Just wait.


Denial is one of the stages of grief.  That's probably why you didn't quote that part rofl.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> .  Also, stop butchering the English language and propping up others who do the same, if literacy is a genuine concern of yours.


I'm severely dyslexic as has been discussed in other threads on the temp and also English is not my main language. What's your excuse for not getting the actual meaning in what I post.

1. You either do it deliberately for your own agenda which would make you a cunt.

2. Or the other option is you really need to improve your reading skills

Which one is it?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 23, 2020)

best popcorn thread EVA!


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> In all of your derpy Trump supporters are so dumb stereotype drivel don't forget were also racist so the illiterate trump supporter in your meme shouldn't be brown.
> 
> Lrn2meme


That election fraud meme was shared in response to a poster who's actively engaged in spreading election fraud misinformation.  Memes don't get more appropriate than that.  Your *triggered* reaction also confirms that it was highly effective.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> That election fraud meme was shared in response to a poster who's actively engaged in spreading election fraud misinformation.  Memes don't get more appropriate than that.  Your *triggered* reaction also confirms that it was highly effective.



I was triggered by how bad that meme was, it was like a special olympian running up to the finish line about to be first but tripping and landing on their colostomy bag.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I'm severely dyslexic as has been discussed in other threads on the temp and also English is not my main language. What's your excuse for not getting the actual meaning in what I post.
> 
> 1. You either do it deliberately for your own agenda which would make you a cunt.
> 
> ...



Maybe it's because you are severely dyslexic and English is not your main language?  I suppose it could be a valid point.  I still don't understand how that results in your deflections/projections.  Maybe there's a screw or two loose in there too, which I don't *know about.  Sorry, I don't subscribe to AmandaFacts.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Maybe it's because you are severely dyslexic and English is not your main language?  I suppose it could be a valid point.  I still don't understand how that results in your deflections/projections.  Maybe there's a screw or two loose in there too, which I don't about.  Sorry, I don't subscribe to AmandaFacts.



Is mise a ’Ghàidhlig dè an leisgeul a th’ agad

Also please what the fuck is I don't about meant to mean.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

Also, check my signature.  If literacy is a sensitive subject for you, maybe you should leave those kinds of insults alone?



AmandaRose said:


> Is mise a ’Ghàidhlig dè an leisgeul a th’ agad



Are you presenting that as a disability too?



AmandaRose said:


> Also please what the fuck is I don't about meant to mean.



I genuinely had trouble reading that, lol.  I fixed my typo for you.  If you were kinder about it, you'd appear less broken.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Also, check my signature.  If literacy is a sensitive subject for you, maybe you should leave those kinds of insults alone?


 nice signature it just totally backs up everything I have been saying about trump supporter's banging on about Biden being a pedo when their own party has a fair few.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> nice signature it just totally backs up everything I have been saying about trump supporter's banging on about Diden being a pedo when their own party has a fair few.


So, you are okay with it then.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Also, check my signature.  If literacy is a sensitive subject for you, maybe you should leave those kinds of insults alone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since when is speaking Gaelic a disability. Since when did I say being dyslexic is a disability. Once again you are putting your own spin on things

Also if you were more kinder to people who you don't agree with IE trans people you would appear less of a cunt. Just saying.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> So, you are okay with it then.


It backs up what I have been saying all along about trump supporter's being hypocrites.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> His legal team hasn't even begun to fight all the fraud yet. They are just in the "opening statement" phase of their lawsuits.


One of the laywers in that 'opening statement' was just fired, and it wasnt the one with the cosmetic malfunction.

This is most likely why:


> In a subsequent interview with Newsmax on Saturday, she appeared to accuse Georgia’s Republican governor, Brian Kemp, and its Republican secretary of state of being part of a conspiracy involving a voting-system contract award that she contends harmed Trump’s re-election bid.
> 
> “Georgia’s probably going to be the first state I’m going to blow up and Mr Kemp and the secretary of state need to go with it,” she said, later adding that a lawsuit she planned to file against the state would be “biblical”.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...y-sidney-powell-after-bizarre-election-claims

Finally a reason that makes sense.. 

Georgia is where the senate race gets decided.  Upsi.

That gives us the insight, that Trump acts crazy on behalf of the GOP. And is also willing to cut his crazy peddlers on behalf of the GOP.
---

Also, great promotion for newsmax. Go on it as a on message Trump lawyer, be fired by Trump. 

Trump tweets - switch over to newsmax.
People do.
Trump fires his legal team lawyer that appeared on newmax.10 days after he told people to switch over and watch.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Since when is speaking Gaelic a disability. Since when did I say being dyslexic is a disability. Once again you are putting your own spin on things
> 
> Also if you were more kinder to people who you don't agree with IE trans people you would appear less of a cunt. Just saying.



Dyslexia is already accepted as a learning disability.  You turned your nationality into an excuse of your incapacity right after that as well.  I think with the latter you could assume more responsibility for instead of turning it into an excuse.   

"A *disability* is any condition of the body or mind (impairment) that makes it more difficult for the person with the condition to do certain activities (activity limitation) and interact with the world around them (participation restrictions)."



AmandaRose said:


> It backs up what I have been saying all along about trump supporter's being hypocrites.



So, again, you are ok with it then. As long as it makes the Trump supporters look like hypocrites.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Dyslexia is already accepted as a learning disability.  You turned your nationality into an excuse of your incapacity right after that as well.  I think with the latter you could assume more responsibility for instead of turning it into an excuse.
> 
> "A *disability* is any condition of the body or mind (impairment) that makes it more difficult for the person with the condition to do certain activities (activity limitation) and interact with the world around them (participation restrictions)."
> 
> ...


I am no longer going to answer to your posts about this subject. We have BOTH went down a road of throwing insults at each other which is against site rules. I have reported my OWN posts to be removed. Let's get the thread back on track to being about the fact Biden won the election please.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

In terms of using a convicted pedophile as a witness--it is a horrible predicament.  But if the substance of the witnesses testimony is verifiable, then it is still admissible as evidence.  If someone close to me died, and the only witness available was found out to be a convicted pedophile, it would be all the more gut-wrenching, but I would still do everything I could to find closure on the issue.  Maybe some people cannot understand this.  As for the case for Rudy though, it seems a bit desperate as a deflection.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

I guess where I really do have an issue is with Trump supporter's using the fact that Biden may or may not have Dementia against him. As I have said before my mum has Primary progressive aphasia dementia and to see someone you love go through that is absolutely the worst thing. Dementia is not something that should be made fun of or used against someone you don't like simply to make fun of them or to humiliate them.

To watch someone you love forget everything and everyone you know including yourself is truly heartbreaking and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh dear mother of god! How stupid can americans be?

*'Online and vulnerable': Experts find nearly three dozen U.S. voting systems connected to internet*
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/el...s-find-nearly-three-dozen-u-s-voting-n1112436

Sorry, but in my mind this almost is evidence of electronic voting fraud by itself. You have voting machines that arent patched, because they are 'certified'. You hook them up to the internet?

What are you trying to do here? Play WOW?

edit:



> “We kept hearing from election officials that voting machines were never on the internet,” he said. “And we knew that wasn't true. And so we set out to try and find the voting machines to see if we could find them on the internet, and especially the back-end systems that voting machines in the precinct were connecting to to report their results.”


What the?

Findings were published on motherboard in august:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...-left-exposed-online-despite-official-denials

Are you insane?



> The three largest voting manufacturing companies — Election Systems &Software, Dominion Voting Systems and Hart InterCivic — have acknowledged they all put modems in some of their tabulators and scanners. The reason? So that unofficial election results can more quickly be relayed to the public. Those modems connect to cell phone networks, which, in turn, are connected to the internet.



Then their spokespeople mischaracterize the situation?



> The largest manufacturer of voting machines, ES&S, told NBC News their systems are protected by firewalls and are not on the “public internet.” But both Skoglund and Andrew Appel, a Princeton computer science professor and expert on elections, said such firewalls can and have been breached.


"Its not in the public internet, because of firewalls?" *doodooodoooodooodballalballablallablala*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I guess where I really do have an issue is with Trump supporter's using the fact that Biden may or may not have Dementia against him. As I have said before my mum has Primary progressive aphasia dementia and to see someone you love go through that is absolutely the worst thing. Dementia is not something that should be made fun of or used against someone you don't like simply to make fun of them or to humiliate them.
> 
> To watch someone you love forget everything and everyone you know including yourself is truly heartbreaking and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.




I agree that it is tasteless to use it as an insult.   That kind of insult started trending when it was against Trump.  Maybe people didn't think about it too much back then because it's likely they didn't really believe it.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

notimp said:


> You hook them up to the internet?
> 
> What are you trying to do here? Play WOW?



The real question is will the deniers go with A) It is not statistically significant.   B)  NBC is a right wing conspiracy theorist peddling rightwing fake news.   or C) Type "Fact check" followed by their opinion.



tabzer said:


> But then again, I wonder where the target of that anger is.  Is it against him, or the people who enabled him.



On Planet earth there is a ruling class, and members of that ruling class routinely traffic, exploit and have sex with children.  If you aren't aware of this you are either in denial or not paying the smallest bit of attention.   It's more popular amongst the 0.01% than golf.

The catholic church does it, our politicians do it and Hollywood does it.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

But then again, I wonder where the target of that anger is.  Is it against him, or the people who enabled him.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The real question is will the deniers go with A) It is not statistically significant.   B)  NBC is a right wing conspiracy theorist peddling rightwing fake news.   or C) Type "Fact check" followed by their opinion.


--

Ok, this brings us to the question, why are those modems in there in the first place?
1. Remote service (HOLY SHIT!)
2. Update process (HOLY SHIT!)
3. VOTE Manipulation (HOLY SHIT!)
4. So that the results can be transmitted faster.

In order of likelyhood.



> “ES&S has repeatedly advertised its DS200 with internal modem — a critical component to ES&S’s voting systems — as being EAC certified when, in fact, it is not,” the letter said. “We therefore again respectfully request that EAC investigate and take action to correct this serious issue.”


This could be a rephrasing of 'we update them using the modem' (not certified means, updated, because certification costs money and is invalidated by updates).


And the CISA is telling americans 'dont worry - we have logs and certs to combat this issue?'
https://www.cisa.gov/rumorcontrol

Sh*t Trump was probably right to fire that guy. 'Most secure election in history' my ass. What a non denial denial... (Specific phrasing not to have to admit, you have serious issues, that could be structurally exploited.)



> The state of Michigan is currently grappling with this issue. Since the 2016 election, Michigan authorized $82 million dollars to upgrade its election systems. Some of that money was spent on tabulators with wireless modems. But now, some state officials worry that the machines may pose a security risk and are pushing to have the modems removed.
> 
> Others are not so sure, and the state has set up an advisory committee.


Jesus...


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 23, 2020)

notimp said:


> --
> 
> Ok, this brings us to the question, why are those modems in there in the first place?
> 1. Remote service (HOLY SHIT!)
> ...




The CIA is known to have backdoor software they routinely use in south America to change votes tallies, this is a known capability they have.  The only question is do you trust they didn't use it here.   I don't.

The Dominon VP was a Pelosi staffer on a ANTIFA zoom call promising to deliver the election to Biden.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The real question is will the deniers go with A) It is not statistically significant.   B)  NBC is a right wing conspiracy theorist peddling rightwing fake news.   or C) Type "Fact check" followed by their opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude I'm not with you - when as a reaction to stuff you post an image of a known child molester. Your logic circuts are burned out. Get treated.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

Lol.  Home sweet home.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


>



This is manipulation.

- FIrst whoever made the video restates the name of the person - which probably doesnt have high google search juice, so extremist blog networks can push stories to wrap people into their scene, starting from google search results.

- In the video he said, they can alter data after the voting process - namely the 'audit mark' connected to an image of a ballot - but that they dont alter the ballot itself. So they provide a system to do 'manual recounting' using the scans.

Which is also bad.

Jesus.

In that video you see a vote scanner, which is NOT one way, and not connected to a bag/box with a lock.

Jesus.

Also forget, that eInk idea - the scanners read data not via OCR, bit via a QR code. So to 'duplicate a vote' you just scan in the QR code again. The machine then will keep an image copy of that scanned ballot, but that only becomes actionable in case of a 'manual recount'. By default the vote scan system ignores all human readable data on the sheet.

Holy mother of Jesus.
---

edit: Ok, but those systems create your vote electronically anyhow. So you press button. Mashine prints paper, you check if vote is correct (touchscreen worked) in human readable portion. You bring that over to a ballot scanner. That ignores the human readable portion, and just scans QR code.

Then there are subsystems for 'verification'.

Someone knows, when such a ballot is 'human verified'? (Checked against the human readable portion on the scan (! what?) stored in the system, or the original paper (?).)

But if it is checked against the original paper, and then paper is filed away - why do you have a scanned image in the system at all? At what point do you rely on the scanned image in the system?

Please slap me - I want to get back to a reality, where those arent problems you seriously have to consider...


----------



## yusuo (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The CIA is known to have backdoor software they routinely use in south America to change votes tallies, this is a known capability they have.  The only question is do you trust they didn't use it here.   I don't.
> 
> The Dominon VP was a Pelosi staffer on a ANTIFA zoom call promising to deliver the election to Biden.



Ironic that you have a picture of President Camacho as your profile picture seeing as you both seem to share the same level of intelligence


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

yusuo said:


> Ironic that you have a picture of President Camacho as your profile picture seeing as you both seem to share the same level of intelligence


Do you expect people to show more intelligent than the avatars that they use?  I know it's a saying, "not to judge a book by its cover", but who reads books anymore?  ..and wouldn't it be nice if the cover of a book did a good job of reflecting what was inside?

Nice title gore btw.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

Ok - here is another 'voting fraud' claim analyzed.

"Forgot to put in memory cards"



> The systems the researchers found are made by Election Systems & Software, the top voting machine company in the country. They are used to receive encrypted vote totals transmitted via modem from ES&S voting machines on election night, in order to get rapid results that media use to call races, even though the results aren’t final.
> 
> Generally, votes are stored on memory cards inside the voting machines at polling places. After an election, poll workers remove these and drive them to county election offices. But some counties want to get their results faster, so they use wireless modems, either embedded in the voting machines or externally connected to them, to transmit the votes electronically. The system that receives these votes, called an SFTP server, is connected to the internet behind a Cisco firewall



According to the manufacturer, the systems modems are used for 'quick reporting' of election results.

Data itself is stored on memory cards, who then get driven to county election offices to tally the official count.

In regards to hackability this doesnt matter - because 'dont put those machines on the internet'!

But it means, that the way they 'noticed' that there were 'probably missing memory cards' on the last election night, was the modems phoning home a different result - via the internet - on election night. Which was more accurate than the official tally, because of forgotten memory cards in some states?

Jesus.

Do you know what you could do instead of connecting those machines to the internet? Use a person that phones the preliminary results in on election night. Oh - but thats too much work? Better connect the mashines to the internet?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

notimp said:


> Ok - here is another 'voting fraud' claim analyzed.
> 
> "Forgot to put in memory cards"
> 
> ...




It really is a complete s**tshow.  I am surprised that we even had users like @Lacius or @monkeyman4412 ignoring these blatant security flaws while claiming that we should have faith the US election process as a default.  It's all f*cked.  Trump is a joke, okay, but America earned that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If these issues are ignored, I'm afraid that it is going to be the intelligence of people, itself, is what is being disenfranchised by "modern democracy".  But really, isn't that already the trend?


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It really is a complete sideshow.  I am surprised that we even had users like @Lacius or @monkeyman4412 ignoring these blatant security flaws while claiming that we should have faith the US election process as a default.  It's all f*cked.  Trump is a joke, okay, but America earned that.


Two different things.

1. Security flaws
2. Bonkers theories of how they were exploited in a great scheme of...
Some of the stuff the now fired lawyer was talking about still makes no sense at all (even systemically). This includes the claim, that 'on election night, the prebaked algo for vote manipulation (that wasnt found) failed, and then they switched over to ballot stuffing, which we also dont have proof for (not even whitness accounts as far as I'm aware of).


But in terms of 'possibility' - holy smokes.

You have private security researchers scouring the internet for voting centers and vote reporting servers (!), which are on the (firewall secured and certainly not open) internet!?

You then go to the press in august, and subsequently see them vanish from your portscan maps, because they are removed from the internet?

The people running the voting centers in many cases didnt know, that their machines were connected to the internet?

You then have the agency thats responsible for 'electronic voting security' give out a statement with, dont worry - there are logs, and everything is certified (which means no security updates - because cert = very expensive)?

RAh?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

Yeah, at this point the legal representation is either smoke and mirrors or it is truly stupid.

I'm with you on the latter.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

Its also that the lawyer was asked (on newsmax  ), what that means for 'how many people must have been involved in such a scheme' (including the human error portion on the frontend that is used to 'fatten up' the 'structural' claims), and responded with "thousands, including all the poll workers". 

Not very confidence inspiring. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Machines/scanners/tabulators are supposed to only 'connect to the internet for a short period of time' - but sometimes were online for moths.

So mitigation against hacking is "only keep them online for a few minutes". *wipe sweat off of forehead*

And yes - indeed, they used the online connections to update them - just only in 'certain counties'.


> But Motherboard has learned that connected to the firewalls are even more critical backend systems—the election-reporting module that tabulates the unofficial votes as well as the official ones, and the election-management system that is used in some counties to program voting machines before elections.


https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kx...-left-exposed-online-despite-official-denials

While update servers probably were online all the time.

*Wadddabadugh?*
--

Edit: Economy behind the really conspiracy laiden stuff (ad based - but you have to spend to gain attention.  )



> “Super chat and super stickers let you tap into a new revenue stream and better connect with your fans during livestreams,” YouTube said in a video announcing the feature. “The bigger the purchase amount, the more the message stands out and the longer it stays at the top of the chat feed.”
> 
> One stream of Giuliani’s speech was featured on the official Donald Trump YouTube channel (which was promoted by YouTube on the platform's homepage). On that stream, comments were turned off. But on another feed featured on the channel “Right Side Broadcasting Network,” live chat, Super Chat, and Super Stickers were turned on. Throughout Giuliani’s unhinged speech, YouTube users from around the world paid money to spout conspiracy theories, which were then prominently featured to the more than 200,000 people who were watching the Right Side Broadcasting Network stream. Both Right Side Broadcasting Network and YouTube profited from conspiracy theory-laden Super Chats.


https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy8...lection-conspiracy-during-giuliani-livestream

Theres money in promoting those networks.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

It seems like they are trying to address all aspects of potential voter fraud and started doing so with the small stuff.  I'm not confident in any system that I cannot personally verify.  However, I am not a person that the institution has been trying to represent.  When it comes to the digital territory of things, then there is a stronger case, with a more centralized group of potential actors.  Could be 1 or it could be 50.  For me, the bottom line is that it is not reasonable to expect me to put faith a company that cannot verify, without a doubt, of its record keeping capacity.  If there is an obvious security flaw, I'm going to treat it as already compromised.  History has shown me that whenever I see a backdoor, it has already been exploited by 23 other groups.

For people who question this type of logic, check your spam folder.

This is gbatemp.  Why has it taken this long for this shit to be spelled out?


@monkeyman4412 @Lacius @Xzi


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It seems like they are trying to address all aspects of potential voter fraud and started doing so with the small stuff.  I'm not confident in any system that I cannot personally verify.  However, I am not a person that the institution has been trying to represent.  When it comes to the digital territory of things, then there is a stronger case, with a more centralized group of potential actors.  Could be 1 or it could be 50.  For me, the bottom line is that it is not reasonable to expect me to put faith a company that cannot verify, without a doubt, of its record keeping capacity.  If there is an obvious security flaw, I'm going to treat it as already compromised.  History has shown me that whenever I see a backdoor, it has already been exploited by 23 other groups.
> 
> For people who question this type of logic, check your spam folder.
> 
> ...


Well in an American justice system you  are innocent until proven guilty. The issue with voter fraud is
1. if fraud was as wide spread as people claim. why has Republicans never acted or even raised the concern until after the election. As the last 4 years were Led by Republican is would of been easy to bring up the issued before the elections and audit the system. why wait till after the election?
2. If fraud is wide spread why are Republicans only claiming fraud and requesting an audit in Areas they are losing? when 24 states were using Dominion Voting in November 2020 but theres only fraud in the 4-5 swing states?
3. When someone makes a claim of fraud it usually means proof has already been located. Till this point no Real proof of wide spread voter fraud has been presented or even found. *The only thing ever presented is the Idea that there "could be" and that does not satisfy the burden of proof that is required in American court systems. *
4, Claiming fraud with out any proof but still demanded audits then become a phishing expedition. which is not allowed the American Court system and worse it creates a doubt to anyone not versed on how the Court system operates because it creates the illusion that something is there? (example : A Wife accuses a Husband is cheating on her because her favorite magazine told her "90% of all men cheat. although her husband as been nothing but the perfect husband, the wife still demand access to his phone and demand a tracker on him at all times.  ) entertaining wild Conspiracy theories without valid proof distorts the peoples mind


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> 1. if fraud was as wide spread as people claim. why has Republicans never acted or even raised the concern until after the election.





> The researchers began looking for connected systems in July of 2018 after seeing repeated comments from state and local election officials as well as federal officials with the Election Assistance Commission, that voting machines and backend election systems are never connected to the internet.


https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kx...-left-exposed-online-despite-official-denials


Still - probably not wide spread fraudulent abuse. But that answers your timing question.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

notimp said:


> Still - probably not wide spread fraudulent abuse. But that answers your timing question.


 


djpannda said:


> . As the last 4 years were Led by Republican is would of been easy to bring up the issued before the elections and audit the system. why wait till after the election?
> *The only thing ever presented is the Idea that there "could be" and that does not satisfy the burden of proof that is required in American court systems. *


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> As the last 4 years were Led by Republican is would of been easy to bring up the issued before the elections and audit the system. why wait till after the election?


Hmmm. let me thinkkz...  *naive*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh.  Are you being serious now?  That's a little out of character.  Too much shock for me to address tonight.  I'm already tired.  Republicans are untrustworthy as Democrats are untrustworthy.  That was essentially Trump's campaign, which won him his first term.  If you were to ask me why they wouldn't prosecute immediately after they won, maybe they were laying the groundwork to catch them in the act?  That seriously could be giving them too much credit, and making the situation much more interesting than it should be.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Oh.  Are you being serious now?


No thats sarcasm. 

Its their first election after the issue has been laid bare.  'I wonder why now, and not in august, when they had nothing to gain politically' is definitely sarcasm..


----------



## tabzer (Nov 23, 2020)

Like they would give them incentive to strengthen their efforts for no reason.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> Well in an American justice system you  are innocent until proven guilty. The issue with voter fraud is
> 1. if fraud was as wide spread as people claim. why has Republicans never acted or even raised the concern until after the election. As the last 4 years were Led by Republican is would of been easy to bring up the issued before the elections and audit the system. why wait till after the election?
> 2. If fraud is wide spread why are Republicans only claiming fraud and requesting an audit in Areas they are losing? when 24 states were using Dominion Voting in November 2020 but theres only fraud in the 4-5 swing states?
> 3. When someone makes a claim of fraud it usually means proof has already been located. Till this point no Real proof of wide spread voter fraud has been presented or even found. *The only thing ever presented is the Idea that there "could be" and that does not satisfy the burden of proof that is required in American court systems. *
> 4, Claiming fraud with out any proof but still demanded audits then become a phishing expedition. which is not allowed the American Court system and worse it creates a doubt to anyone not versed on how the Court system operates because it creates the illusion that something is there? (example : A Wife accuses a Husband is cheating on her because her favorite magazine told her "90% of all men cheat. although her husband as been nothing but the perfect husband, the wife still demand access to his phone and demand a tracker on him at all times.  ) entertaining wild Conspiracy theories without valid proof distorts the peoples mind




1.  Why didn't you let me know that you were this smart, before...  Why wait until now?  What benefit could you gain in blind-sighting me?
2.  Why fight a winning battle?  If there is a need to re-audit the whole election do you think it will hurt Trump?  I think it is more likely that he said, "guys, let's not cheat this time."
3.  You are right.  *So far, that is the the situation.  Why do they appear to be so stupid??*
4.  My wife uses my phone whenever she wants.  Because it's a phone, and it's convenient.  I don't relate.

Bitcoin for president btw.




AmandaRose said:


> I am no longer going to answer to your posts about this subject. We have BOTH went down a road of throwing insults at each other which is against site rules. I have reported my OWN posts to be removed. Let's get the thread back on track to being about the fact Biden won the election please.



This "almost apology" from @AmandaRose .  It's more than I can expect from someone like @Ev1l0rd


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Like they would give them incentive to strengthen their efforts for no reason.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I apologise for being an arse in a few posts in this thread which as most people on the temp will tell you isn't normally me. I don't apologise for being who I am and for my belief in what is right or wrong.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Like they would give them incentive to strengthen their efforts for no reason.


 1.  You know your are on the internet?, just because someone presents themselves as a 18 year old sexy lady. Does not mean she’s really a lady...
2.  The issue is Republicans are using this as a win/win for them.. As they want the audits delay cerification to pick their own electors and and create  doubt even after the audit they are still going to claim fraud but it was covered up to play on the base
3. Their goal is to present the idea of fraud by creating 100 frivolous lawsuits, their base thinks that there were enough evidence to bring up 100 lawsuits because they are not looking at the substance only the headline
4. It’s the issue of trust. You are mistrusting a person,you should trust, because of a unrealistic and unreliable source


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> nice signature it just totally backs up everything I have been saying about trump supporter's banging on about Biden being a pedo when their own party has a fair few.



I don't see why Biden should get a pass and people should ignore the fact he fondles young girls breasts because there happens to be other pedo's alive. I'd imagine that defense for a pedo that was caught with child pr0n would do wonders in court. "Oh, Judge, there's other pedos in the world so you should let my client go free".


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't see why Biden should get a pass and people should ignore the fact he fondles young girls breasts because there happens to be other pedo's alive. I'd imagine that defense for a pedo that was caught with child pr0n would do wonders in court. "Oh, Judge, there's other pedos in the world so you should let my client go free".


Again that is not what I am saying. I said its hypocritical of Trump supporter's to bring this up when the GOP has a fair few of them. And as I said before this issue has been discussed to death here and this is the last I will be replying to people tagging me about it.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Again that is not what I am saying. I said its hypocritical of Trump supporter's to bring this up when the GOP has a fair few of them. And as I said before this issue has been discussed to death here and this is the last I will be replying to people tagging me about it.



It sure looks like you're trying to make it seem like Joe's actions don't matter because there's other evils in the World. I'm not aware of any Republican's that are pedos, but I won't be defending them by saying "Oh, there's Pedo's on the Left so it's okay". That QAnon conspiracy theory is partially correct because there is a class of people that rule over the world and they often like to fuck children. I just don't think they are organized like the theory claims, but there are old rich pedos that rule among the rest of us and Biden just happens to probably be one. I don't see why anyone would need to fondle young girls breasts.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It sure looks like you're trying to make it seem like Joe's actions don't matter because there's other evils in the World. I'm not aware of any Republican's that are pedos, but I won't be defending them by saying "Oh, there's Pedo's on the Left so it's okay". That QAnon conspiracy theory is partially correct because there is a class of people that rule over the world and they often like to fuck children. I just don't think they are organized like the theory claims, but there are old rich pedos that rule among the rest of us and Biden just happens to probably be one. I don't see why anyone would need to fondle young girls breasts.


If you actually read back on my previous posts I have said a few times all pedophiles are scum. And with that I will no longer be commenting on this issue.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I was triggered by how bad that meme was, it was like a special olympian running up to the finish line about to be first but tripping and landing on their colostomy bag.


You complained that the meme 'unfairly stereotypes' Trump supporters as uneducated for believing in wide-spread election fraud, yet you perpetuate this stereotype every time you and others claim wide-spread election fraud.  This, despite the courts *dismissing nearly every lawsuit* due to lack of evidence.  By continuing to respond aggressively, you're telling everyone just how effective the meme was.

Oh, the self-inflicted irony.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> This, despite the Obama appointed judges *dismissing nearly every lawsuit* due to personal bias and lack of morals.


  I fixed this for you as I believe this is what you meant.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I fixed this for you as I believe this is what you meant.


I don't peddle worthless conspiracy theories for every result that doesn't go my way.  

That's *your* shtick.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Can we get a mod to change the title of this thread to reflect reality????
> 
> Here is how it should read:
> *Joe Biden Has NOT Won - Will Not Become 46th president of the United States*
> ...


Saved for future reference.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I fixed this for you as I believe this is what you meant.


Lol there u guys go again creating fake quotes to push an agenda lol


----------



## SG854 (Nov 23, 2020)

Trump?


----------



## morvoran (Nov 23, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I don't peddle worthless conspiracy theories for every result that doesn't go my way.
> 
> That's *your* shtick.






How do you explain the past four years with the fake Russian collusion, fake impeachment, and calling Trump racist, xenophobic, etc without proof? The left still doesn't consider Trump "their president".



LumInvader said:


> Saved for future reference.


 Please do, but do not waste those tears you're building up with all that extra salt for when Biden is sent back to his basement layer to sniff more kids he keeps locked up down there.  I want to taste that sweet dispair and dread.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> How do you explain the past four years with the fake Russian collusion, fake impeachment, and calling Trump racist, xenophobic, etc without proof? The left still doesn't consider Trump "their president".


What you are risking is different.

Peoples believe in a person vs.
Peoples believe in the democratic system.

But you go along and destroy democracy with moonlanding and pedophile memes - trying to drum up more interest for channels that keep people under distress and fear.. 

Lets imagine for a moment that you are the best at all fear inducing conspiracies. You know every one of them. You start to see how they fit together, like Neo, because you cant believe the time spent with them was useless and has got you nowhere. You start writing your own books.

Who are you then? In relation to a broader society? A scientist? A truth seer? A cassandra? An Alex Jones (cult leader) whose only out is to sell merchandise? (Every kids biggest dream is to become a youtuber..  )
----

I think to lighten the mood I should post another artsy music video.


It somehow fits in here I think. 

A little bit heavy on the symbolism. Almost propaganda. Also, probably too 'communist' for most people in here (produced for a norwegian band in mexico). But I actually like it quite a bit.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> View attachment 235142
> 
> Please do, but do not waste those tears you're building up with all that extra salt for when Biden is sent back to his basement layer to sniff more kids he keeps locked up down there.  I want to taste that sweet and dread.


You implied uniform bias due to the judges having been appointed by Obama, but *not all of them* were appointed by Obama and several are Republicans who were appointed by both Obama and Trump.  For all of these disparate points to come together across *30-40 failed election fraud cases* alleges conspiracy, not just 'Obama appointee bias.'

Why should *anyone* trust a word you're saying when you are this clueless?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

*Trump's election lawsuit leads to 3rd Circuit grant for expedited review*

*The Third Circuit Court of Appeals granted the Trump campaign's request for an expedited review of a lower court's decision to dismiss a lawsuit over voting in Pennsylvania.*

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/3rd-circuit-grants-trump-campaign-motion-for-expedited-review


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> They expect us to rally behind Biden yet won't apologize for their actions.


Sorry, I really should have warned you guys ahead of time how much of a grifter and conman Donald Trump is.  



gregory-samba said:


> Plus for the entire 4 years they refused to call him their President.


You're equally free to pout about how Biden isn't your president for the next four years, but eventually your mom will probably get tired of it and stop bringing you fresh chickie tendies.



gregory-samba said:


> Trump's election lawsuit leads to 3rd Circuit grant for expedited review


Yay, I love expedited dismissal of frivolous lawsuits with no evidence.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 23, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Sorry, I really should have warned you guys ahead of time how much of a grifter and conman Donald Trump is.
> 
> 
> You're equally free to pout about how Biden isn't your president for the next four years, but eventually your mom will probably get tired of it and stop bringing you fresh chickie tendies.
> ...



Seems I hit a nerve as you were exactly the type of Liberal I was speaking about in my prior post. You can't man up and admit you're wrong, can you?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 23, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Seems I hit a nerve as you were exactly the type of Liberal I was speaking about in my prior post. You can't man up and admit you're wrong, can you?


Wrong about what, exactly?  I don't certify election results, states do.  And I was not the one who asserted that Russia interfered in our 2016 election, that was our intelligence agencies (all of them).  You might choose to operate on the basis of "feels > reals," but I do not.


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's like we're supposed to dismiss the lefts actions and suddenly forget what they did without them even admitting they were wrong and asking for forgiveness.


No forgiveness.

Collusion:
Cohen plead guilty:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)



> Trump employed Cohen until May 2018, a year after the special counsel investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections began. The investigation led him to plead guilty on August 21, 2018, to eight counts including campaign finance violations, tax fraud, and bank fraud.[8] Cohen said he violated campaign finance laws at the direction of Trump and "for the principal purpose of influencing" the 2016 presidential election.[9] In November 2018, Cohen entered a second guilty plea for lying to a Senate committee about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.[10][11]



Impeachment:
Very real - but politically unsuccessful - both towards how the public perceived it and in result. Impeachments get decided on by a majority of politicians. The 'judges' dont investigate, they dont analyze - they just vote like they are told to. 
Trying it might have been in vain from the start - but morally it was justified.

Racist/xenophobic:
Trump praised the genes of his rally-goes as 'especially great' and has staffed the white house staff the following way:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ersity-race-donald-trump-gender-a8285016.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/omarosa-white-house-diversity/index.html

He separated mexican children from their mothers:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n-policy-545-children-parents-still-not-found

He upheld senseless provisions just to dogwhistle to his base:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53002805

The leader of the KKK endorsed him - multiple times:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ke-tucker-carlson-election-2020-a9609491.html

He has made multiple racist remarks (shit countries?):
https://www.politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/

He started his election campaign with a racist fairytale.
---



Impeachment point argued better than I have:


> The authors emphasise that at every stage politicians have the discretion to nix the process. The constitution confers the power, not the duty, to proceed. They discuss the dangers to democracy of whichever course is chosen. Even a justified impeachment poses great risks, they note. Fans of the president (and in Donald Trump’s case, they would number tens of millions) are likely to regard the process as an illegitimate coup and might resist. If a putative impeachment effort were to fail, the country could be left “with a corrupt tyrant and his angry, vengeful supporters”.
> 
> “To End a Presidency” urges that “in assessing whether (and when) to impeach, we all must reckon with broader risks to the democratic system we’re trying to save.” Ultimately, the authors say, that calculation may sometimes “cut in favour of impeachment”. For all the acrimony of a trial and the possible backlash, allowing corruption or betrayal in the White House is “exceptionally risky” too.


https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2018/05/11/how-to-impeach-a-president


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Howzabout something coming straight from the horse's mouth?


We've been over this. My mother works with dementia patients, she's a registered nurse. Dementia patients are not just unable to lie, they say the wrong words, talk about things that never happened, fabricate stories... Ya boi just misspoke, but if you wanna go the dementia route, let's fuckin' go.



jimbo13 said:


> By every reasonable metric quality of life under Putin has improved as far as personal freedom & wealth, when has Russia not had authoritarian slanted leadership?  By Russian standards & history Putin is fucking Bernie Sanders.
> 
> If you want to fixate on a brutal regime, oppressing their people and fucking around in our elections I suggest China.


are you deadass about to have a discussion with me, a socialist, about putin, and you think you have the high ground by saying he's improved the lives of his people with social policies
is that what we're doing now


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 23, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> We've been over this. My mother works with dementia patients, she's a registered nurse. Dementia patients are not just unable to lie, they say the wrong words, talk about things that never happened, fabricate stories... Ya boi just misspoke, but if you wanna go the dementia route, let's fuckin' go.


Suddenly, I support the 25th Amendment.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suddenly, I support the 25th Amendment.


Oh. Did you hear Michigan’s Board of State Canvassers has voted to certify the Nov. 3, 2020 General Election results.

The vote was 3-1 with one lone Republican board member abstaining during an hourslong meeting on Monday that means .. Pennsylvania and Ga left


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suddenly, I support the 25th Amendment.


Good so you support Kamala Harris that's good to know because that is what happens if the 25th is used.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendment/amendment-xxv


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Good so you support Kamala Harris that's good to know because that is what happens if the 25th is used.


Crap, right...


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Crap, right...


No it would be an awesome thing if it happens. Do you have a problem with women being in power?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Crap, right...


Oh just in case you didn’t hear 
Michigan’s Board of State Canvassers has voted to certify the Nov. 3, 2020 General Election results. That because no fraud was found. Funny of that works

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



AmandaRose said:


> No it would be an awesome thing if it happens. Do you have a problem with women being in power?


I have a feeling his V-card bunker dweller .. has issue with any one who’s not a male “*WASPs”*


----------



## notimp (Nov 23, 2020)

> President Donald Trump’s campaign told a federal appeals court it would request an emergency order blocking Pennsylvania from certifying its election result while the campaign seeks to revise a lawsuit over mail-in ballots.


Give us a minute to prepare - could you halt the declaration of results in the meantime? Thanks! 
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:drPv5-T5IQoJ:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-23/trump-camp-wants-3rd-circuit-to-halt-pennyslvania-certification?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=at

Uh and this:


> Trump’s lawyers have repeatedly stated their strategy is to bring an election case before the U.S. Supreme Court, but the campaign’s decision to appeal for the right to file a new complaint rather than reverse dismissal could delay the timetable for getting to the high court. If the appeal is successful, it would allow the campaign to file a revised complaint adding several claims, requiring more filings and a new hearing before Brann.



Brann is this guy:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-pennsylvania-idUSKBN2810WR
-------------

How is Trump racist?



> *New Trump rule may require some African tourists to pay up to $15,000 in bonds*
> 
> 
> The outgoing administration of U.S. President Donald Trump on Monday issued a new temporary rule that could require tourist and business travelers from two dozen countries, most in Africa, to pay a bond of as much as $15,000 to visit the United States.


src: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sts-to-pay-up-to-15000-in-bonds-idUSKBN2832IR

Blacks? He hardly knew them.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 23, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I have a feeling his V-card bunker dweller .. has issue with any one who’s not a male “*WASPs”*


So I guess by WASP you mean white anglo saxon protestant. If so this slightly confuses me. Is the protestant movement in the USA still living in the dark ages? Potestans here in Scotland are fully behind equal rights for all and are huge supporters of the lgbt community especially the trans community.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> So I guess by WASP you mean white anglo saxon protestant. If so this slightly confuses me. Is the protestant movement in the USA still living in the dark ages? Potestans here in Scotland are fully behind equal rights for all and are huge supporters of the lgbt community especially the trans community.


Yes Wasps in the States are anti everything still.. remember the US is bout 100 Years behid

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



AmandaRose said:


> So I guess by WASP you mean white anglo saxon protestant. If so this slightly confuses me. Is the protestant movement in the USA still living in the dark ages? Potestans here in Scotland are fully behind equal rights for all and are huge supporters of the lgbt community especially the trans community.


And not to mention the the Protestant started to evolve to Evangelical


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 23, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> No it would be an awesome thing if it happens. Do you have a problem with women being in power?


A woman who enforced racist laws? Yeah, I have a problem.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> A woman who enforced racist laws? Yeah, I have a problem.


The Coffin is close .. just waiting for the final nails.
*“GSA tells Biden that transition can formally begin”*


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> No it would be an awesome thing if it happens. Do you have a problem with women being in power?



Nothing he said suggested anything about a problem with women or any gender for that matter. God damn can anyone on the left have a debate without bringing up someones race/colour/gender for once in their life. Maybe he can have a problem with someone not based on their gender or skin colour, crazy thought I know. Seeing as though you mentioned Scotland, who's first minister is a woman. The head of the UK police is a woman, before BoJo the prime minister was a woman and the queen is a woman. NZ has a woman leader, I'm sure the list goes on. Believe it or not most people vote for the person best qualified for the job and don't bring up neanderthal arguments based on gender.

Speaking of Scotland, didn't you jail a man because of a joke with his dog. Didn't you also start to bring in a hate crime bill where you can charge people for thoughts in their own homes. 

On second thoughts, maybe you do need a new leader.


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 24, 2020)

djpannda said:


> The Coffin is close .. just waiting for the final nails.
> *“GSA tells Biden that transition can formally begin”*


Welp, that's the end, trump is out. You tried, and did something, even if it was a bad thing, but be glad trump was even elected in the first place you republicans. Now, we see what biden can do for the country, and see if can save America from the virus.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

djpannda said:


> 1.  You know your are on the internet?, just because someone presents themselves as a 18 year old sexy lady. Does not mean she’s really a lady...
> 2.  The issue is Republicans are using this as a win/win for them.. As they want the audits delay cerification to pick their own electors and and create  doubt even after the audit they are still going to claim fraud but it was covered up to play on the base
> 3. Their goal is to present the idea of fraud by creating 100 frivolous lawsuits, their base thinks that there were enough evidence to bring up 100 lawsuits because they are not looking at the substance only the headline
> 4. It’s the issue of trust. You are mistrusting a person,you should trust, because of a unrealistic and unreliable source




1. My question wasn't entirely genuine.  It was also rhetorical to help find an answer to your question.  It seems you kind of understand what I'm hinting at but then lost track of the original thought.
2. How is it an issue if Biden already became the 46th president?
3. That could be %100 true.
4. Well, you say I should trust someone...  Should I trust you, sexy lady?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Welp, that's the end, trump is out. You tried, and did something, even if it was a bad thing, but be glad trump was even elected in the first place you republicans. Now, we see what biden can do for the country, and see if can save America from the virus.



Not quite, at least not on paper. Trump is still proceeding with all of his lawsuits, still challenging the counts in multiple states, but allowing his administration to start the transition "just in case".

See? Now Trump looks like the good guy!

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/23/937956178/trump-administration-to-begin-biden-transition-protocols


----------



## Driving_duck (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Not quite, at least not on paper. Trump is still proceeding with all of his lawsuits, still challenging the counts in multiple states, but allowing his administration to start the transition "just in case".
> 
> See? Now Trump looks like the good guy!
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/23/937956178/trump-administration-to-begin-biden-transition-protocols


Only problem? The lawsuits have a super low chance of working, so unless we get a bunch of faithless electoral people, which is very unlikely, biden will win.

TLDR: Biden has a huge chance to win, and the only reason trump could win is because of luck.



The best chance you could have really is getting those georgian run offs to go in your favor, and make the senate once again a majority republican.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> We've been over this. My mother works with dementia patients, she's a registered nurse. Dementia patients are not just unable to lie, they say the wrong words, talk about things that never happened, fabricate stories... Ya boi just misspoke, but if you wanna go the dementia route, let's fuckin' go.
> 
> 
> are you deadass about to have a discussion with me, a socialist, about putin, and you think you have the high ground by saying he's improved the lives of his people with social policies
> is that what we're doing now




I am not saying it, BBC and every institutional group that monitors QOL is saying it.  Compared to past leaders of Russia Putin is the most drastic reformation to take place in their history.  I am not saying Putin is a good leader, I am saying as far as dictators and leaders violating human rights he doesn't even get a seat at the adults table.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



shamzie said:


> Nothing he said suggested anything about a problem with women or any gender for that matter. God damn can anyone on the left have a debate without bringing up someones race/colour/gender for once in their life. Maybe he can have a problem with someone not based on their gender or skin colour, crazy thought I know. Seeing as though you mentioned Scotland, who's first minister is a woman. The head of the UK police is a woman, before BoJo the prime minister was a woman and the queen is a woman. NZ has a woman leader, I'm sure the list goes on. Believe it or not most people vote for the person best qualified for the job and don't bring up neanderthal arguments based on gender.
> 
> Speaking of Scotland, didn't you jail a man because of a joke with his dog. Didn't you also start to bring in a hate crime bill where you can charge people for thoughts in their own homes.
> 
> On second thoughts, maybe you do need a new leader.




No, the lefts entire platform is the following: "A cousin fucking cake baker in the middle of nowhere might be mean to a pair of leather daddies and we all have to live under a 1984 authoritarian nightmare to make sure no one says anything mean about the shirtless sodomy parades,  And how much immigration do we need?   All of it."

Oh and more Free stuff, unless your white.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am not saying it, BBC and every institutional group that monitors QOL is saying it.  Compared to past leaders of Russia Putin is the most drastic reformation to take place in their history.  I am not saying Putin is a good leader, I am saying as far as dictators and leaders violating human rights he doesn't even get a seat at the adults table.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I don’t understand conservatives today, Russian commies are ok now, but kill all American socialist lol just remember to wipe your mouth you still got a bit of Putin on you


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Didn't you also start to bring in a hate crime bill where you can charge people for thoughts in their own homes.
> 
> On second thoughts, maybe you do need a new leader.



And its a good thing we have stronge hate crime laws because it has now made our country one of the most tolerant in the world. And no you are allowed your own thoughts in your home your just not allowed to spread racist/homophobic/transpobic hate to others including the Internet. And let's not forget hat hate crimes are also illegal in England under various different laws. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

As for the dog incident are you seriously saying that what happened was acceptable? Let me remind you


On 23 April 2018, Scottish YouTuber Mark Meechan of Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire was fined £800 after being found "grossly offensive" for posting a YouTube video that was viewed over 3 million times depicting him training his girlfriend's pug to respond to the phrase "Sieg Heil" by lifting his paw in a Nazi salute.


----------



## notimp (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am not saying it, BBC and every institutional group that monitors QOL is saying it.  Compared to past leaders of Russia Putin is the most drastic reformation to take place in their history.  I am not saying Putin is a good leader, I am saying as far as dictators and leaders violating human rights he doesn't even get a seat at the adults table.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


You are close to making an actually viable argument Just leave out the stuff that concerns personal, private life decisions, sodomy, racism (even if very much on the I'm so poor pandering side), gay kink shaming - and youd be there.

Someone has to tell you at one point, that all of those are aspects, we leave outside of 'regulatory doctrines', because if we'd enforce them the world would become a surveillance hell, where people would find fun in the activity of ratting their neighbors out. "Free" society means, you dont care - if your neighbor does those things.

Best medicine against racebaiting and identitypolitics is collective repulsion of those measures. Issue - as long as you have old people voting for an established caste, that only needs to replicate itself, and drag a few wannabees with it that made it through the SJW movement - you dont get anywhere. How to solve it is unclear, but everyone knows that the majority of people hates it.

Putin has introduced some reforms (mostly early on), but for the most part has given russia back what the popolus really wanted, and that is a sense of mattering again on the wold stage. So praising the achievements of Putin too much is always suspect, because - largely they werent there, economically. Foreign policy was quite successful though.

The first part (private stuff) is most important. If only you could understand that - talking to you would be much easier. 

Because as it stands right now, you just want to replace identity politics, with your own set of moral politics, and then police them until 10% of the population is in jail, just so you dont have to think about leather daddies, who you always think about..  Give people the freedom to exist in that regard (mostly in private anyhow) - an you'd almost not be a radical anymore..


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 24, 2020)

Transitioning team is finally working with Biden.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> And its a good thing we have stronge hate crime laws because it has now made our country one of the most tolerant in the world. And no you are allowed your own thoughts in your home your just not allowed to spread racist/homophobic/transpobic hate to others including the Internet. And let's not forget hat hate crimes are also illegal in England under various different laws. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom


So basically you're allowed to have a non-conforming opinion, but you're not allowed to voice your opinion. At that point, you may as well not be able to have that opinion. That's thoughtcrime.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So basically you're allowed to have a non-conforming opinion, but you're not allowed to voice your opinion. At that point, you may as well not be able to have that opinion. That's thoughtcrime.


America actually has similar laws in various states. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> America actually has similar laws in various states. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States


Assault != speech.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Assault != speech.




*Verbal* abuse (also *verbal attack* or *verbal assault*) is the act of forcefully criticizing, insulting, or denouncing another person. Characterized by underlying anger and hostility, it is a destructive form of communication intended to harm the self-concept of the other person and produce negative emotions.

It is illegal in most countries in the world including America.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> *Verbal* abuse (also *verbal attack* or *verbal assault*) is the act of forcefully criticizing, insulting, or denouncing another person. Characterized by underlying anger and hostility, it is a destructive form of communication intended to harm the self-concept of the other person and produce negative emotions.
> 
> It is illegal in most countries in the world including America.


Thank you for certifying that our first amendment has been violated.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Thank you for certifying that our first amendment has been violated.



Buddy, please don't try to go all "blah blah FIRST AMENDMENT" if you don't understand the scope of the first amendment. It makes you look ignorant.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Buddy, please don't try to go all "blah blah FIRST AMENDMENT" if you don't understand the scope of the first amendment. It makes you look ignorant.


Just like every gun law is an infringement, all speech is free speech.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Just like every gun law is an infringement, all speech is free speech.



So are you advocating for no restrictions on peoples ability to post child pornography on the internet? Because that's "speech" too. Just want to make sure we're on the same page here, feel free to walk that back if you'd like.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Thank you for certifying that our first amendment has been violated.


So you are seriously saying doing something like gaslighting someone which is a form of verbal abuse is acceptable.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Assault != speech.





UltraSUPRA said:


> Just like every gun law is an infringement, all speech is free speech.


A person that is more respected than you said"The Second Amendment is just a remnant from revolutionary days. It has no meaning today." - Lisa Simpson

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> So are you advocating for no restrictions on peoples ability to post child pornography on the internet? Because that's "speech" too. Just want to make sure we're on the same page here, feel free to walk that back if you'd like.


Hey are you judging his fetishes? Mind you he’s only 15


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> So are you advocating for no restrictions on peoples ability to post child pornography on the internet? Because that's "speech" too. Just want to make sure we're on the same page here, feel free to walk that back if you'd like.



If it is simulated porn /drawgings/cg as distasteful as it is, yes.  The acquisition of the content would be the crime., distributing it would be accessory after the fact.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If it is simulated porn /drawgings/cg as distasteful as it is, yes.  The acquisition of the content would be the crime., distributing it would be accessory after the fact.



Oh no no no no no we're not walking around the question here. I was very specific in my statement.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Oh no no no no no we're not walking around the question here. I was very specific in my statement.




Sexually exploiting a child is a crime, that has nothing to do with speech.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> And its a good thing we have stronge hate crime laws because it has now made our country one of the most tolerant in the world. And no you are allowed your own thoughts in your home your just not allowed to spread racist/homophobic/transpobic hate to others including the Internet. And let's not forget hat hate crimes are also illegal in England under various different laws. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom
> 
> As for the dog incident are you seriously saying that what happened was acceptable? Let me remind you
> 
> ...



Not only do i think it was acceptable, I encourage it. Because you, and anybody who thinks like you doesn't get to tell me or anybody else what's funny, what's acceptable and what's a joke. You're not the moral compass for every joke ever made. Context matters, jailing somebody over a joke is never acceptable, unless of course you enjoy living in dictatorships. Of course you think It's acceptable to jail somebody for wrong think.

Scotland: WilliamWallace/JailforWrongthink


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> So you are seriously saying doing something like gaslighting someone which is a form of verbal abuse is acceptable.


Yes.


djpannda said:


> A person that is more respected than you said"The Second Amendment is just a remnant from revolutionary days. It has no meaning today." - Lisa Simpson


>believes that guns should be illegal
>uses a Simpsons quote


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Sexually exploiting a child is a crime, that has nothing to do with speech.



I'm also not talking about the act of exploitation. I'm talking about the specific act of distribution. Where or how it came to be, as despicable as it is, is wholly irrelevant to this line of questioning.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yes.
> 
> >believes that guns should be illegal
> >uses a Simpsons quote



Lisa, the annoying liberal. Well they're all annoying but the most famous annoying liberal from the show. Of course he quotes her.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I'm also not talking about the act of exploitation. I'm talking about the specific act of distribution. Where or how it came to be, as despicable as it is, is wholly irrelevant to this line of questioning.


I believe Jimbo explained it perfectly.
Acquisition is illegal, distribution isn't. You can't distribute it without acquiring it first.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Assault != speech.



not true, "In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9–0 decision in _Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire_.[3] It held that "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the prevention and punishment of [which] … have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem.""

while some jurisdiction have narrowed fighting words, some places like Hawaii allow the use of force in response to fighting words which mostly consists of racist language.

you better make sure you know your hate speech laws in your area before someone blows you away because you used an offensive phrase or racial slur.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yes.





Says it all really that you belive gaslighting which is a form of verbal and mental abuse is acceptable


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I believe Jimbo explained it perfectly.
> Acquisition is illegal, distribution isn't. You can't distribute it without acquiring it first.



Distribution is VERY MUCH so illegal you goober.

So to circle back on my question - since you think it isn't illegal, do you think distribution of CP is wrong?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Distribution is VERY MUCH so illegal you goober.
> 
> So to circle back on my question - since you think it isn't illegal, do you think distribution of CP is wrong?


"Moral" and "legal" mean two totally different things.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yes.
> 
> >believes that guns should be illegal
> >uses a Simpsons quote


Lol I said the person was more respected than you not that it’s was a realperson  (.hint that means you are less respected than a cartoon 8year old)


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Moral" and "legal" mean two totally different things.



You're not answering my question. Do you think that distribution of CP should be illegal, or should people be allowed to distribute it free of consequences from the government?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Moral" and "legal" mean two totally different things.


Lol half of me hopes Nintendo still stalk this forum for piracy and get the feds to follow up on you lol


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

notimp said:


> Because as it stands right now, you just want to replace identity politics, with your own set of moral politics, and then police them until 10% of the population is in jail, just so you dont have to think about leather daddies, who you always think about..  Give people the freedom to exist in that regard (mostly in private anyhow) - an you'd almost not be a radical anymore..



I a secular hedonist whose personal hobbies outside of gaming consists of magic mushrooms, molly & DMT naked around a bonfire & group sex I am not a prude by any stretch of the imagination, I'm in a open poly marriage.

I am in to body modding, I have had dirty looks and discriminatory behavior for how I choose to behave, I don't give a fuck. 

I loathed the religious right back in the day for the same cancel culture/behavior I loathe the left for now. People in the 90s didn't help the gay community out of the closet to make room to put the religious in it.

If your going to publicize your fetish's/kink or otherwise act like a weirdo in public I am not in the business of persecuting people who don't like it for thought crimes.

*I believe in absolute freedom of thought and association. 

I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, at anytime for any reason no asterisk.
*
*I reserve the right to like or dislike anyone's life style or behavior for any reason no asterisk.*
*
I reserve the right to hire, employ or work with anyone I like, or not because of their life style or behavior no asterisk.*​
I defy, detest, reject and loathe anyone left or right trying to involve themselves under the color of law determining the validity of those decisions I can make for myself.

I support Cletus's in bumfuck Louisiana's right to tell Blaine in his assless chaps to gtfo of his bakery.

I support Stephens right to tell Pastor preachstomuch to get out of his coffee shop with his morality lectures.

It's not about my comfort, I am comfortable with most anything and anyone.  But I am not in the business of legislating what others have to be comfortable with under force of law.


*


Sicklyboy said:



			I'm also not talking about the act of exploitation. I'm talking about the specific act of distribution. Where or how it came to be, as despicable as it is, is wholly irrelevant to this line of questioning.
		
Click to expand...

*
Unless you remove the child from the situation you are engaging in sexual exploitation of a child.  That is not speech.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> You're not answering my question. Do you think that distribution of CP should be illegal, or should people be allowed to distribute it free of consequences from the government?


No.
People who distribute child porn should be arrested, yes, but the distribution shouldn't be considered the crime. Rather, it should be used as evidence for the crime of acquisition. Am I making sense?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Unless you remove the child from the situation you are engaging in sexual exploitation of a child. That is not speech.



Since you seem like such an eager beaver to answer my question that @UltraSUPRA just keeps tiptoeing around - distribution of it is indeed considered speech, and has indeed been determined by the US Supreme Court that there are no First Amendment protections for the distribution of CP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Ferber


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.
> People who distribute child porn should be arrested, yes, but the distribution shouldn't be considered the crime. Rather, it should be used as evidence for the crime of acquisition. Am I making sense?


Lol change you story now I see.. don’t want Nintendo on you


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.
> People who distribute child porn should be arrested, yes, but the distribution shouldn't be considered the crime. Rather, it should be used as evidence for the crime of acquisition. Am I making sense?



No, you don't make sense.

Yes, the words that you included in your post are all coherent and form cohesive sentences.

Your hot take, that distribution of CP should be legal, does not make sense.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Lol change you story now I see.. don’t want Nintendo on you


He also supports abuse of other humans as he clearly said gaslighting is acceptable.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> He also supports abuse of other humans as he clearly said gaslighting is acceptable.


Gaslighting is a form of mental control that makes the inflicted person doubt everything they know. In other words, exactly what the media does.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> No, you don't make sense.
> 
> Yes, the words that you included in your post are all coherent and form cohesive sentences.
> 
> Your hot take, that distribution of CP should be legal, does not make sense.


You know what? I give up. All speech *that doesn't involve the exploitation of a child* is free speech.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You know what? I give up. All speech *that doesn't involve the exploitation of a child* is free speech.


Except the law in your own country and others says differently as covered by the various hate crime laws around the world. 

Also Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse, sometimes called Ambient Abuse it is also illegal in America. So you said gaslighting is acceptable Yes so then are you also  saying it is acceptable to break your countries laws?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Except the law in your own country and others says differently as covered by the various hate crime laws around the world.
> 
> Also Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse, sometimes called Ambient Abuse it is also illegal in America. So you said gaslighting is acceptable Yes so then are you also  saying it is acceptable to break your countries laws?


You're talking to a pirate, here.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're talking to a pirate, here.


Yes a petty crime that doesn't come with a prison sentence unlike gaslighting which normally gets you several years in prison.


----------



## Chary (Nov 24, 2020)

ITT: committing crimes is okay but only for *ME. *


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Yes a petty crime that doesn't come with a prison sentence unlike gaslighting which normally gets you several years in prison.


Does this mean we can jail CNN?


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

it's Armageddon in the betting markets right now. the trumpers pumped so much money based on emotions instead of facts.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You know what? I give up. All speech *that doesn't involve the exploitation of a child* is free speech.



See now you're getting tripped up and it's pretty funny. First you argue that "all speech is free speech", "well, ok, wait, actually, not if it involves kids"

Should there not be laws preventing people from walking around in public fully nude, shopping fully nude, doing everything that they'd like with their meat and two veg flapping around? Because that is a form of expressive conduct, a type of speech. A type of speech which has been considered obscene and ruled, again by the US Supreme Court, that there are no protections for that kind of speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

Writing a book is also a form of speech. Writing a book and claiming it as your own work when in fact it's been wholly plagiarized from someone else is decidedly illegal, as that is a clear cut violation of copyright law.

I could keep going, but I know I'm just talking at you, and you're too far indoctrinated and are quite beyond help. All of what I'm saying here is for my own entertainment, as I know there's no way in hell it'd ever get through to you. I'm going to go do some _more _entertaining things now, like have a beer, pack a bowl, cook some dinner, and play Halo without calling people the epic gamer word, because whether or not the epic gamer word is considered freeze peach or not, I'm mature enough to realize that some kinds of speech are wrong, and I hope for your own sake that you mature in the same way eventually.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Making, obtaining or distributing child porn is illegal, immoral and wrong. However, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Any laws that restrict your freedom to say what you want and not be harmed for it are violations and need not be adhered to. Hate / Thought crimes are not real and have been created to further restrict your freedom and control you. I don't need anyone telling me what I can do, say and think and I will resist anyone trying to do so.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Should there not be laws preventing people from walking around in public fully nude, shopping fully nude, doing everything that they'd like with their meat and two veg flapping around? Because that is a form of expressive conduct, a type of speech. A type of speech which has been considered obscene and ruled, again by the US Supreme Court, that there are no protections for that kind of speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test


That's not speech.


Sicklyboy said:


> Writing a book is also a form of speech. Writing a book and claiming it as your own work when in fact it's been wholly plagiarized from someone else is decidedly illegal, as that is a clear cut violation of copyright law.


Your terms are acceptable.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> That's not speech.



It absolutely is lol go click the link you goober


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> That's not speech.



You're probably just not keeping up with words that the Liberals have redefined. Those nut jobs think that can pass policy by first redefining words to suite their wants and desires. Liberals are a bunch of sickos.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're probably just not keeping up with words that the Liberals have redefined. Those nut jobs think that can pass policy by first redefining words to suite their wants and desires. Liberals are a bunch of sickos.



I wasn't aware that the 1973 US Supreme Court were liberals.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Speech is verbal, it comes from your mouth, it's something you say. Disgusting acts against children are not "speech".


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> It absolutely is lol go click the link you goober



Actually let me build off of this for a sec, because _Miller v California_ doesn't explain it entirely. Like I said, that'd be considered expressive conduct, and while not codified into law, IS recognized as a form of speech by the US Supreme Court as it pertains to First Amendment protections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Expressive_conduct
https://web.archive.org/web/2014090...ley.edu/journals/btlj/articles/vol15/tien.pdf


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## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Speech is verbal, it comes from your mouth, it's something you say. Disgusting acts against child are not "speech".


This is my actual thoughts, I just couldn't think of a way to put it when text technically isn't verbal.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Speech is verbal, it comes from your mouth, it's something you say. Disgusting acts against child are not "speech".



There's rulings by the Supreme Court about it. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not is your own problem, but it's absolutely been determined that it is a form of speech not protected by the First Amendment.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This is my actual thoughts, I just couldn't think of a way to put it.



It's the thought of any rational personal that knows how to speak.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This is my actual thoughts, I just couldn't think of a way to put it when text technically isn't verbal.



Then your thoughts are wrong. Sorry to break it to you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Then your thoughts are wrong. Sorry to break it to you.



Speech doesn't involve a victim being sexually assaulted.  If they want to write a story or a draw a picture that should be legal regardless of how distasteful and fictional accounts are grouped in as child porn.

Sexually exposing a actual child even after the initial act is still sexually exposing a child which is a crime.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> There's rulings by the Supreme Court about it. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not is your own problem, but it's absolutely been determined that it is a form of speech not protected by the First Amendment.



The first amendment makes room for expressive content, but it's called expressive content, not speech. If expressive content was speech we wouldn't be debating something so basic and simple. Speech is the verbal communication. Having sex isn't something you do by talking nor is sharing photographs of the sex. SPEECH IS VERBAL.

*speech*
noun
 
\ ˈspēch  

*Definition of speech*
1a *: *the communication or expression of thoughts in spoken words
b *: *exchange of spoken words *: *conversation
2a *: *something that is spoken *: *utterance
b *: *a usually public discourse *: *address
3a *: *language, dialect
b *: *an individual manner or style of speaking
4 *: *the power of expressing or communicating thoughts by speaking

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/speech


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Speech doesn't involve a victim being sexually assaulted.  If they want to write a story or a draw a picture that should be legal regardless of how distasteful and fictional accounts are grouped in as child porn.
> 
> Sexually exposing a actual child even after the initial act is still sexually exposing a child which is a crime.



I don't know how many times I need to bring up that my point was specifically with DISTRIBUTION, not CREATION. And that the Supreme Court has already ruled on it with regards to DISTRIBUTION in this specific line of discussion.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Speech doesn't involve a victim being sexually assaulted.  If they want to write a story or a draw a picture that should be legal regardless of how distasteful and fictional accounts are grouped in as child porn.
> 
> Sexually exposing a actual child even after the initial act is still sexually exposing a child which is a crime.



Folding pre-teens girls breasts is also a crime, but it's the left we're talking about. They are sick and encourage perversion.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I don't know how many times I need to bring up that my point was specifically with DISTRIBUTION, not CREATION. And that the Supreme Court has already ruled on it with regards to DISTRIBUTION in this specific line of discussion.


Images aren't words.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I don't know how many times I need to bring up that my point was specifically with DISTRIBUTION, not CREATION. And that the Supreme Court has already ruled on it with regards to DISTRIBUTION in this specific line of discussion.



Distribution and creation... Both having nothing to do with speech and both should be illegal if they already aren't.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Images aren't words.


 
And you're not a constitutional lawyer. Do you want to tell me anything else I already know?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I don't know how many times I need to bring up that my point was specifically with DISTRIBUTION, not CREATION. And that the Supreme Court has already ruled on it with regards to DISTRIBUTION in this specific line of discussion.



You are arguing legal precedent, I am stating my principals.  Sexually exploiting a child at any point is a crime.

If it is fictional expression sans a victim they are entitled to that expression.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Distribution and creation... Both having nothing to do with speech and both should be illegal if they already aren't.



Champ, I'm not making any groundbreaking rulings here. I'm just citing rulings by the US Supreme Court with specific regards to freedom of speech and what is and is not granted First Amendment protections, and making the best effort I can to link them when I remember. The best part is that I'm not a constitutional lawyer either, I'm just using this thing called the internet to find a few very easily accessible links that reinforce my point as has been ruled by the highest court of the land.

You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the US Supreme Court.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If it is fictional expression sans a victim they are entitled to that expression.


Okay, hold up. Are you saying loli should be legal? Because I can't defend that.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Champ, I'm not making any groundbreaking rulings here. I'm just citing rulings by the US Supreme Court with specific regards to freedom of speech and what is and is not granted First Amendment protections, and making the best effort I can to link them when I remember. The best part is that I'm not a constitutional lawyer either, I'm just using this thing called the internet to find a few very easily accessible links that reinforce my point as has been ruled by the highest court of the land.
> 
> You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the US Supreme Court.



I'm simply following the actual definition of the word speech. I can't help it if your side takes all sorts of words and simply disregards whatever it is they actually mean to create some fantasy based off of personal wants and desires. Speech is spoken, photographs are not speech. Expressive content is also not speech, even if the law provides protections for it.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You are arguing legal precedent, I am stating my principals. Sexually exploiting a child at any point is a crime.



A crime that has been determined to have no First Amendment protections as ruled by the US Supreme Court in _Miller v. California _and _New York v. Ferber_, yes.



jimbo13 said:


> If it is fictional expression sans a victim they are entitled to that expression.



As distasteful and of questionable morality as it may be, I do not outright disagree with you but do not agree either.



gregory-samba said:


> I'm simply following the actual definition of the word speech. I can't help it if your side likes to try to use all sorts of words and simply disregards whatever it is they actually mean and create some fantasy based off of personal wants and desires. Speech is spoken, photographs are not speech. Expressive content is also not speech, even if the law provides protections for it.



"My side" is not the 1973 US Supreme Court. Again. I don't know why you're having such a hard time grasping this.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> "My side" is not the 1973 US Supreme Court. Again. I don't know why you're having such a hard time grasping this.


"Your side" always talks about the great political switcheroo of Year XXXX, so...


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Your side" always talks about the great political switcheroo of Year XXXX, so...



I'm not talking about anything besides what I'm currently talking about so I don't know what this comment has to do with anything.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Okay, hold up. Are you saying loli should be legal? Because I can't defend that.



I am not familiar with the slang, but assuming your talking about cg/drawings of sexualized children yes.  I don't defend that ethically at all.  But legally yes, but I wouldn't be the attorney taking the case or falling on that sword.

My principles are really simple in this regard.  No victim, no aggressed, no crime.

When determining if a crime has taken place every incident should start with who is the victim, if you can't say their name or it is abstract slight against society 99.9% of the time that is not a crime.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Images aren't words.


Actually they are.

Visual representation of thoughts, words, ideas, actions, or pretty much anything really.

Saying "an image is worth 1000 words" is a direct reference to that. Pictograms, or photographs, are used to help people understand an idea much easier, especially when reading abilities may be lacking.

I was actually surprised when you said images aren't words considering the amount of memes posted to support your point.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Okay, can we avoid the talk about sickening dark stuff and return to the topic on hand?

So it seems the transition team is finally cooperating with Biden's team. I don't see how the last Trump supporters and still thinking he's going to win. It could be possible if the lawsuits were going Trump's way, but that is not the case. Like I've been saying for weeks Biden will probably become the President Elect officially when the Electoral College votes in a couple of weeks. It's highly unlikely that the Conservatives fantasy about the Supreme Court changing the outcome or the electors not voting reflecting their districts results is going to happen. I do wonder what's motivating the hold outs and why they think Trump could still win when all of the evidence points toward him losing?

*GSA chief informs President-elect Biden that formal transition process can begin*
_The letter effectively ends a weeks-long standoff_

U.S. General Services Administration chief Emily Murphy informed President-elect Joe Biden on Monday that her agency has formally ascertained him as the apparent winner of the 2020 presidential election and would move ahead with transition proceedings.

The letter effectively ends a weeks-long standoff in which the Biden transition team accused Murphy and her agency of withholding critical transition resources needed for a smooth transfer of power. President Trump has yet to concede the 2020 election.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gs...ect-biden-formal-transition-process-resources

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



VinsCool said:


> Actually they are.
> 
> Visual representation of thoughts, words, ideas, actions, or pretty much anything really.
> 
> ...



Images can contain words, they are not words, otherwise there would be no need for two words ("images" and "speech") to describe the same thing. Spoken things can be represented in images, but that doesn't make images the same thing as spoken words. The same is applied to expressive content. If expressive content was the same as speech you'd just call them both "speech" and not have separate definitions for them. MEME's can also contain written down spoke words, but they aren't speech by themselves.  I advise you pick up a dictionary that hasn't been edited by Liberal nut jobs and learn the definitions for speech, images and expressive content.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Suddenly, I support the 25th Amendment.


You should

For all the conservatives like Supra, @morvoran, @gregory-samba, @jimbo13 and others, I invite you to respond to this video:

It's not patronising or another shot at you, I am really curious what your response is. If you don't want to watch it all, I get it, but the central point is worth addressing.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 24, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Images can contain words, they are not words, otherwise there would be no need for two words ("images" and "speech") to describe the same thing. Spoken things can be represented in images, but that doesn't make images the same thing as spoken words. The same is applied to expressive content. If expressive content was the same as speech you'd just call them both "speech" and not have separate definitions for them. I advise you pick up a dictionary that hasn't been edited by Liberal nut jobs and learn the definitions for speech, images and expressive content.


The thing I can see make sense regarding the definitions is simply that one is the other, but not necessarily the other way around.

So speech could be done in a image form to express an idea, but it does not automatically make an image speech, so to speak.

I understand that the definition may up to interpretation, at a certain point.
I understand why you disagree, and I respect that, I certainly won't try to change someone's mind if they already made their thought.
That being said I stand by my point, but it doesn't really matter at the end.

I won't go and argue over it further since this is getting offtopic anyway


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> You should
> 
> For all the conservatives like Supra, @morvoran, @gregory-samba, @jimbo13 and others, I invite you to respond to this video:
> 
> It's not patronising or another shot at you, I am really curious what your response is. If you don't want to watch it all, I get it, but the central point is worth addressing.




I watched the first 5 minutes. He basically asked the same question I asked in the thread above your original post. The question I asked was "I do wonder what's motivating the hold outs and why they think Trump could still win when all of the evidence points toward him losing?". The guy in the video asked "what will it for Trump supporters to realize he lost?" I didn't want to watch 18 minutes because the main in the video starts off claiming he's a socialist and socialism would ruin the USA, but the intent of the video is fine by me .... the intent being to get Trump supporters to realize Trump more than likely lost the 2020 election.

I approached the issue with an open mind by stating "maybe he won, maybe he lost, let's see what the court cases turn up" and so far the court cases haven't turned up any wide spread voter fraud. You see, I'm not like the Liberals who claim something is true and then go look for evidence to support their theory as I am a realist and just wait until the results are in. I'm better than Liberals because I realize it's an election, there's 2 candidates and one wins and one loses, which is something they never accepted about the 2016 election.

The only big issue I see is even when Trump probably steps down will be the Left's plight to get the Conservatives to work with them (that was also in the first few minutes of your video). It's going to be really hard to get Conservatives to work with the Liberals when the Liberals spend 4 years fighting the 2016 election results, including the claiming they were invalid, the premeditated impeachment without guilt over the fact they lost, or the Russian collusion conspiracy theory. Plus the way the Liberals addressed and talked about Trump. Now you hear them saying they want unity, but won't even apologize for what they did to Conservatives for the last 4 years. I for one am reminded of a snake that's claiming they want to be your body guard, but as soon as they get the chance they bite and kill you. Liberals remind me of evil and the rest of the country isn't going to forget over night how the liberals have acted for the past 4 years.

Trump is probably going to lose, but after your sides partisan impeachment, Russian hoax and your unwillingness to work with Trump and how you treated Conservatives for the last 4 years means you're going to have an uphill battle on getting them to work with you. I for one always support the President, regardless who he or maybe she may be, but I'm not going to support the Liberal establishment or their sick desire to implement socialism and destroy the USA.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't see how the last Trump supporters and still thinking he's going to win.



I do not know what will transpire.

However this is a fact;   Deliberate fraud aside, the authority to allow mail in voting resides in the state legislature.  This is not what occured, AGs and Governors depending on the state acted unilaterally.

Mail-in ballots in those incidents are not valid and should not be counted.



Darth Meteos said:


> It's not patronizing or another shot at you, I am really curious what your response is. If you don't want to watch it all, I get it, but the central point is worth addressing.




*"This is insane, what is it going to take for you to accept the results"*
*Belief in deliberate fraud sat aside entirely.  *

 Unilateral partisan changes to the election process transpired before the election.  State rules vary. Lot of minutia here however the right was very vocal prior to the election we were not accepting a outcome if it was perceived to have transpired through change of process due to Covid.

We said, _*"Yo bro we aren't playing under this new ruleset"*_ due to that alone.  We are not accepting the outcome and we are going to push forward to do everything we can to delegitimize this election. Due process to enact these changes did not occur to our satisfaction.

It is not as if we waited till after the election to say something, we stated this months ago.

If you are counting on the 75 million trump supports to "Come together" you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Biden's not getting a mandate we are going full civil unrest till compromise or suit for peace occurs.

Biden/DNC policies are so repugnant we are willing to burn the whole fucking thing down.

Being free of Pelosi/DNC bullshit is fundamentally more important than remaining *United* states. Our priority is free states. 

*Defiance to tyranny is Obedience to God.*


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 24, 2020)

So this is what the politics section is like? Magic.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

CPG said:


> So this is what the politics section is like? Magic.


Yup. I enjoy it.


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yup. I enjoy it.


Honestly I like politics because I like seeing people fight.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yup. I enjoy it.


You know the moment you gave free speech an exception you destroyed your previous claim about freedoms being the most important thing.. if one thing can stop your freedoms that means Some thing else can be more important then freedoms at the right moment also .. lolol like mask saving lives.. damn you just allowed
@Sicklyboy To destroyed your own argument about mask


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

djpannda said:


> You know the moment you gave free speech an exception you destroyed your previous claim about freedoms being the most important thing.. if one thing can stop your freedoms that means Some thing else can be more important then freedoms at the right moment also .. lolol like mask saving lives.. damn you just allowed
> @Sicklyboy To destroyed your own argument about mask


Refusing to wear a mask isn't any form of assault.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Refusing to wear a mask isn't any form of assault.


 .. just looking at you is an assault on our senses.. but Seriously .. u should feel bad..


----------



## morvoran (Nov 24, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> You should
> 
> For all the conservatives like Supra, @morvoran, @gregory-samba, @jimbo13 and others, I invite you to respond to this video:
> 
> It's not patronising or another shot at you, I am really curious what your response is. If you don't want to watch it all, I get it, but the central point is worth addressing.




I tried to watch that but as soon as I saw it was Vaush-oline, I quickly had to stop it and erase my watch history.  Thanks for trying to have my Youtube recommended videos fill up with racist left-wing mush brained shit.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

i've been hearing rumbles of healthcare workers going on strike due to people not taking safety precautions and aweful treatment by their employers. going to be interesting.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0201123-yhloq3vzp5guvenvscjq7y4vlm-story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/21/us-nurses-strike-coronavirus-fears-pennsylvania

people are being so damn childish about having to wear a mask and not be retarded with large groups that the people who should be helping us won't because we are risking their lives as well as our own.

what's that? you broke your arm on a fall? too bad, health care workers are on strike. sucks to suck.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> i've been hearing rumbles of healthcare workers going on strike due to people not taking safety precautions and aweful treatment by their employers. going to be interesting.
> 
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0201123-yhloq3vzp5guvenvscjq7y4vlm-story.html
> 
> ...



We don't live under socialism so they are free to pick which profession they want to be in and also pick where they want to work. Under socialism you won't have the freedom to work the job you desire or the freedom to quit the job as the Government would be directing you where you can when and when you can work.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> i've been hearing rumbles of healthcare workers going on strike due to people not taking safety precautions and aweful treatment by their employers. going to be interesting.
> 
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0201123-yhloq3vzp5guvenvscjq7y4vlm-story.html
> 
> ...



Less insult more please if you really want people to wear a masks, wont happen while progressive politicians keep getting caught flouting their own mandates.

You want people sanctioned for not wearing masks?  It's a real big deal you say?  Well you can start with Pelosi, Newsom and Lightfoot.

Progressives can start recalling these people for being intentional willful spreaders and flouting of "necessary" health mandates.

Better drop the 'tude your going to *make* someone wear a mask.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Less insult more please if you really want people to wear a masks, wont happen while progressive politicians keep getting caught flouting their own mandates.
> 
> You want people sanctioned for not wearing masks?  It's a real big deal you say?  Well you can start with Pelosi, Newsom and Lightfoot.
> 
> ...



you don't need to wear a mask if you don't want to, I'm not trying to force anyone to wear a mask. but there are consequences to actions both taken and not. you don't need to be a baby about it though.


when trained professionals tell people something, it is generally a good idea to listen.

https://chochilino.com/news/world/2...pacity-shortages-in-us-warn-top-nurses-union/


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> This changed in the early 1970s when the work of John Money, particularly the popular college textbook _Man & Woman, Boy & Girl_, was embraced by feminist theory



Holy shit. You call yourself an intellectual ? I thought you were trolling, only to read on and see you were fucking serious. I didn't know that feminist *theory *could change the meaning of words. Only in the mind of a negative testosterone self-hating white bitch.

PS Come and take our guns. Our mantra:


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> you don't need to wear a mask if you don't want to, I'm not trying to force anyone to wear a mask. but there are consequences to actions both taken and not. you don't need to be a baby about it though.
> 
> 
> when trained professionals tell people something, it is generally a good idea to listen.
> ...




When trained professionals tell you something it is always a good idea to listen to them, verify their facts & motivations against contrary opinions and it how it applies to your own behavior.   There are no shortage of credible medical officials that are rolling their eye's at masking just like everyone else.

Again, the attitude that this is long term settled science without contradictory evidence while derping at people is what led to a lot of _fuck you.   _Pre-covid science on mask efficacy isn't great and it is all over the place, recent science has a lot of correlation issues.  So all the facebook experts pretending they are smarter than everyone else made a lot of defiance martyrs.

@eastwald 

If you are going to bring Mr Heston in here I feel the need to leave this for you.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> you don't need to wear a mask if you don't want to, I'm not trying to force anyone to wear a mask. but there are consequences to actions both taken and not. you don't need to be a baby about it though.
> 
> 
> when trained professionals tell people something, it is generally a good idea to listen.
> ...



Let's say "trained professionals" tell you to wear a butt plug at all times because the fumes from your ass cause pollution. Do you obey?

P.S. I have two doctors in my family - one my Son, the other my Niece.


----------



## CORE (Nov 24, 2020)

*Just One of Many.*


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> Let's say "trained professionals" tell you to wear a butt plug at all times because the fumes from your ass cause pollution. Do you obey?



That's stupidly easy. No, because there is contradictory evidence that shows that it would harm you.



eastwald said:


> P.S. I have two doctors in my family - one my Son, the other my Niece.



Sounds like an appeal to authority. It's a fallacy and bears zero weight here.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> That's stupidly easy. No, because there is contradictory evidence that shows that it would harm you.


Similarly, masks hurt your ears, weaken your immune system, and can make it hard to breathe.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Similarly, masks hurt your ears, weaken your immune system, and can make it hard to breathe.


Discomfort is not harm.

But please provide the source for the study that shows that wearing a mask weakens your immune system.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> But please provide the source for the study that shows that wearing a mask weakens your immune system.


Common sense.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Common sense.


That's an appeal to common sense. It's also a fallacy. (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Common-Sense)

It's not common, nor is it reliable. There is no evidence that it weakens your immune system.


----------



## notimp (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> It's not about my comfort, I am comfortable with most anything and anyone. But I am not in the business of legislating what others have to be comfortable with under force of law.


Its mostly moral law anyhow (please no babykiller arguments currently). 

So that Mrs Smith doesnt get to the bakery one day and pronounces, that she should get to skip place in line, because the husband of Mrs Notsmith turned out gay --

or that Mr Alan Turing had to be 'chemically neutered' and shunned for winning the US WW2 and bringing you personal computing.

That was one of virtues of western societies at one point (and yes, not the 19th century, but come on...). That stuff gets 'a little more publicised these days' may have to do with everyones 15 minutes of fame on social media (most people still try to avoid).

And stuff like rather hefty changes in language arent mainstream by a long shot.

Minimize the aggressive rhetoric against people 'profiting off of being morally apprehensive' (in your view) - because outside of the SJW subset of people that tried hardest to find a really stupid set of rules to declare who is better that the other person, this still is not how society works. Try to not judge people based on really mostly kinks or race - and you are far less problematic in terms of your believes.

And if you dont believe in socially apprehending people with those attributes anyhow - also change your rhetoric in that regard. Just so people dont get mad thinking you are something that by your own account you are not.

I mostly get the impression that you think people with those attributes get along better in life, but that still should be more or less coincidental. In no version of the world I parttake in does virtue signaling count as first and formost 'promoting' the thing you are championing - for wide use - either. You are promoting your oh so liberal attitude towards it. And that by virtue of the fact that you draw more attention towards that thing - some people looking for attention get more drawn to it -- still doesnt get you - or them, anywhere 'in life'.

Allow for 'private space' where you dont legislate into. Acknowledge, that some of it will swap over into the public real once in a while, and dont hate on that so much rhetorically, if you can help it. Also helps with the tentative selfloathing.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

the "party of responsibility" is gonna need another bail-out after their weak medical infrastructure crumbles from overload. Healthcare rationing is going to blow peoples minds when granny doesn't get a vent.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/11/22/utah-hospitals-have-begun/

*“What keeps me awake at night is that we have not felt the admissions of the 4,000-patient-a-day caseloads. We’re going to feel that in the next week or so. But our hospital already is at 100% capacity,” said Dr. Sean Callahan, a University of Utah pulmonologist and critical care physician who oversees the hospital’s respiratory therapists."*


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> the "party of responsibility" is gonna need another bail-out after their weak medical infrastructure crumbles from overload. Healthcare rationing is going to blow peoples minds when granny doesn't get a vent.



They aren't using ventilators anymore, when noted insane crazy man Alex Jones said two weeks in to the pandemic that the ventilators were doing more harm than good it turns out he was right, as always.

https://www.njspotlight.com/2020/10...dications-steroids-recovery-rate-ventilators/


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> They aren't using ventilators anymore, when noted insane crazy man Alex Jones said two weeks in to the pandemic that the ventilators were doing more harm than good it turns out he was right, as always.
> 
> https://www.njspotlight.com/2020/10...dications-steroids-recovery-rate-ventilators/



your link states that better treatment has reduced the need for ventilators, not eliminated it. read it again.

*Maintaining delicate balance*
*“There’s a sweet spot” in balancing who needs to be intubated and who could benefit more from other treatments*, said Nelson, who also chairs the emergency medicine department at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School. “You have to use a good amount of clinical judgment.”

also remember, we have a lot of ventilators, but not enough trained staff to use them all.

you can't hand-wave away a medical disaster.

sure, on one hand critical care is better, but the sheer volume of infections will fuck all of that up.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> your link states that better treatment has reduced the need for ventilators, not eliminated it. read it again.
> 
> *Maintaining delicate balance*
> *“There’s a sweet spot” in balancing who needs to be intubated and who could benefit more from other treatments*, said Nelson, who also chairs the emergency medicine department at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School. “You have to use a good amount of clinical judgment.”
> ...




Here lets just quantify how many sources you want supporting the claim so I can pull up the number all at once instead of you finding a reason to nitpick each individually.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-doctors-ventilators-covid-patients.html


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Here lets just quantify how many sources you want supporting the claim so I can pull up the number all at once instead of you finding a reason to nitpick each individually.
> 
> https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-doctors-ventilators-covid-patients.html



your source is talking about putting people on ventilators too early, not that they don't help. read it again.

also that is an article from 7 months ago.

"*They aren't using ventilators anymore, when noted insane crazy man Alex Jones said two weeks in to the pandemic that the ventilators were doing more harm than good it turns out he was right, as always.*"

you are claiming that ventilators are not used anymore. that is 100% bullshit.

Artificial ventilation is fucking awful in any instance, it is always used as a last ditch for critical care, except for early on in the outbreak where it was used early and often because we didn't know what the fuck was going on and people's O2 sats were dropping fast as fuck.

also the fucking title of your article spells all this out for you...


*"*Doctors think ventilators might harm* some *COVID-19 patients*"*


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> That's stupidly easy. No, because there is contradictory evidence that shows that it would harm you.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like an appeal to authority. It's a fallacy and bears zero weight here.



Sounds like an appeal to authority? No matter what I write, factual, non-factual, you will respond with 'you suck' because I hurt your narrative. I made the point that two doctors are in my family - who I greatly respect - and they were the one's who convinced me of a) cloth masks are 10% effective, if that b) surgical masks are about ~50% effective, and c) all of their bosses say one thing and do another.

If you trust government 'authority', you don't know history, plain and simple. Don't put words in my mouth that nothing to do what I was pointing out.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> Sounds like an appeal to authority? No matter what I write, factual, non-factual, you will respond with 'you suck' because I hurt your narrative. I made the point that two doctors are in my family - who I greatly respect - and they were the one's who convinced me of a) cloth masks are 10% effective, if that b) surgical masks are about ~50% effective, and c) all of their bosses say one thing and do another.
> 
> If you trust government 'authority', you don't know history, plain and simple. Don't put words in my mouth that nothing to do what I was pointing out.



I'm sorry, but you are not above criticism. If you present fallacious arguments you bet I am going to point it out.

Here, maybe you can learn something:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Discomfort is not harm.
> 
> But please provide the source for the study that shows that wearing a mask weakens your immune system.



I'm making an assumption - you are young. I thought like you once, and this is where conservatives and liberals seem to differ as of late. Your kind (not saying you specifically - I don't know you as you don't know me, but I'm talking about people who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety - one who does such deserves neither). 

Ever hear about cases of children raised by germaphobe Moms, who eventually became allergic to dirt? The more your body fights viruses, the stronger your immune system is. 
I'm all for protecting the elderly/those w/ pre-existing conditions. Both of my parents are still alive and I want it to stay that way, as long as possible.

I don't need to cite a medical journal. It's common knowledge that your immune system strengthens as it fights more - unless you are compromised. Not many young people are compromised.

If you REALLY want MD references, I'll email my Neice (very liberal) and post what she responds with.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> your source is talking about putting people on ventilators too early, not that they don't help. read it again.
> 
> also that is an article from 7 months ago.
> 
> ...


Seems like you two are saying the same thing.  Doctors don't start treating patients of the virus by putting people on ventilators anymore.  If they really need to do it, they do it with modified settings because they were doing harm, previously.  He's not being technical, and you aren't being practical.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> I'm sorry, but you are not above criticism. If you present fallacious arguments you bet I am going to point it out.
> 
> Here, maybe you can learn something:
> https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority


When did I say I was above criticism? This is why I don't waste much time on GBATemp forums. You are probably 20 years old - I know the feeling - you know it all right? What fallacious argument did I present?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> When did I say I was above criticism? This is why I don't waste much time on GBATemp forums. You are probably 20 years old - I know the feeling - you know it all right? What fallacious argument did I present?



What's worse than know it all's is know it all liberals.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> I'm making an assumption - you are young. I thought like you once, and this is where conservatives and liberals seem to differ as of late. Your kind (not saying you specifically - I don't know you as you don't know me, but I'm talking about people who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety - one who does such deserves neither).



I don't see how any of that is relevant? My age or my background has NOTHING to do with this discussion.



eastwald said:


> Ever hear about cases of children raised by germaphobe Moms, who eventually became allergic to dirt? The more your body fights viruses, the stronger your immune system is.
> I'm all for protecting the elderly/those w/ pre-existing conditions. Both of my parents are still alive and I want it to stay that way, as long as possible.
> 
> I don't need to cite a medical journal. It's common knowledge that your immune system strengthens as it fights more - unless you are compromised. Not many young people are compromised.
> ...



Yes, I accept that the immune system strengthens as it fights more. However... We are in the middle of a pandemic. The whole reason we need to keep distance and wear masks is because the health care systems are overrun.

It sounds like your argument is that the health care systems wouldn't be overrun if everyone just got sick because their immune systems would eventually kick in. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> I don't see how any of that is relevant? My age or my background has NOTHING to do with this discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've had the Cornholio virus. Have you? Your age damn well is important, by the way. You know nothing of the real world and what it's like running a business or raising a family.

Guess what - I'm almost 40, and I felt a little hot and slightly itchy on my arms for about 12 hours. That was it. Now tell me why we need to lock ourselves indoors, and ignore our constitutional (GOD GIVEN) freedoms?


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Similarly, masks hurt your ears, weaken your immune system, and can make it hard to breathe.


1. You can get masks that tie behind your head. https://www.thedailybeast.com/face-masks-with-ties

2. You are not wearing the mask 24/7 there will be no damage caused to your immune system. You would need to wear the mask all the time for a number of years for anything to happen to your immune system.

3. There is also various solutions to the problem of breathing available such as https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutronics-...eywords=breathing+mask&qid=1606212582&sr=8-15


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

10% effective cloth masks? or N95s? Be specific.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Seems like you two are saying the same thing.  Doctors don't start treating patients of the virus by putting people on ventilators anymore.  If they really need to do it, they do it with modified settings because they were doing harm, previously.  He's not being technical, and you aren't being practical.



at this point I'm not sure what he was trying to do. argue that multiple states aren't at or exceeding ICU capacity, or that people aren't falling seriously ill with this disease? he made a statement claiming "They aren't using ventilators anymore" and linked an article that didn't back the statement up. i pointed it out, he doubled down with another article that also didn't back up his original point.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> When did I say I was above criticism?



Let me show you:


eastwald said:


> Sounds like an appeal to authority? No matter what I write, factual, non-factual, you will respond with 'you suck' because I hurt your narrative.



It sounds like you are whining about the fact that when someone points out that you are wrong then it doesn't count because I'm only saying "you suck". Which by the way is a flat out lie.



eastwald said:


> What fallacious argument did I present?



Here you go:



eastwald said:


> P.S. I have two doctors in my family - one my Son, the other my Niece.



The fallacy is X is a doctor and says Y is true, therefore Y is true.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> 10% effective cloth masks? or N95s? Be specific.



even cloth masks are effective because droplets from the airway start at sizes larger than the spaces between cloth fibers. blocking large droplets before they evaporate into smaller droplets is the basic point with masks. Everyone needs to be wearing them because asymptomatic spread is the most common kind, and you won't know your asymptomatically infected until you get tested. it is best to assume everyone is currently infected to mitigate asymptomatic spread.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

The advice is simple. 

• Wear a fabric mask unless you’re in a particular risk group. This is especially important when you 
can’t stay physically distanced, particularly in crowded and poorly ventilated indoor settings.
• Wear a medical/surgical mask if you:
◦ Are over 60,
◦ Have underlying medical conditions
◦ Are feeling unwell, and/or
◦ Are looking after an ill family member.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> I've had the Cornholio virus. Have you? Your age damn well is important, by the way. You know nothing of the real world and what it's like running a business or raising a family.



No it fucking isn't. My age has NOTHING to do with whether or not we should be wearing masks. So you're arguing that the older a person is the more correct they are? Do you hear how stupid that sounds?



eastwald said:


> Guess what - I'm almost 40, and I felt a little hot and slightly itchy on my arms for about 12 hours. That was it. Now tell me why we need to lock ourselves indoors, and ignore our constitutional (GOD GIVEN) freedoms?



What are you on about? And by the way, please provide evidence that "god" exists and has ever given you anything.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

eastwald said:


> 10% effective cloth masks? or N95s? Be specific.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/

Published data have suggested that sneezing may produce as many as 40 000 droplets between 0.5–12 μm in diameter (Cole & Cook, 1998; Tang et al., 2006) that may be expelled at speeds up to 100 m/s (Wells, 1955; Cole & Cook, 1998), whereas coughing may produce up to 3000 droplet nuclei, about the same number as talking for five minutes (Cole & Cook, 1998; Fitzgerald & Haas, 2005; Tang et al., 2006). Despite the variety in size, large droplets comprise most of the total volume of expelled respiratory droplets. Further data on the behavior of droplet dispersion in naturally generated aerosols are needed.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

In conclusion, we have measured the filtration efficiencies of various commonly available fabrics for use as cloth masks in filtering particles in the significant (for aerosol-based virus transmission) size range of ∼10 nm to ∼6 μm and have presented filtration efficiency data as a function of aerosol particle size. *We find that cotton, natural silk, and chiffon can provide good protection, typically above 50% in the entire 10 nm to 6.0 μm range, provided they have a tight weave.
*
your basic ass cotton mouth covering will block at least 50% of particulate matter between 10nm to 6um in size. respiratory droplets are between .5um (500 nm) and 12um, these sizes are clearly in the 50% size range, or are bigger which gives it better filtration. a cloth mask is expected to be around 70% effective.

also for the people who complain about wearing masks for extended amounts of time being unsafe, tell that to dental assistance who wear that shit for 4+ hours of the day, 5 days a week or more, on top of surgeons who wear them for 14+ hour surgeries. masks keep you and others safe.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> even cloth masks are effective because droplets from the airway start at sizes larger than the spaces between cloth fibers. blocking large droplets before they evaporate into smaller droplets is the basic point with masks. Everyone needs to be wearing them because asymptomatic spread is the most common kind, and you won't know your asymptomatically infected until you get tested. it is best to assume everyone is currently infected to mitigate asymptomatic spread.



What kind of cloth?  What kind of density?

Before you start claiming efficacy you need to have some kind of criteria, which the public health recommendations/mandate lack.  Because it's not about safety, it's about compliance and symbols.

If the ruling class were concerned about safety we would be doing N95 masks and they would be following their rules.


And if masking is only going to work if everyone does it, you just proved it will never work because that wont happen.







--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mammastuffing said:


> No it fucking isn't. My age has NOTHING to do with whether or not we should be wearing masks. So you're arguing that the older a person is the more correct they are? Do you hear how stupid that sounds?
> 
> 
> 
> What are you on about? And by the way, please provide evidence that "god" exists and has ever given you anything.



You need this.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> at this point I'm not sure what he was trying to do. argue that multiple states aren't at or exceeding ICU capacity, or that people aren't falling seriously ill with this disease? he made a statement claiming "They aren't using ventilators anymore" and linked an article that didn't back the statement up. i pointed it out, he doubled down with another article that also didn't back up his original point.


I think the topic you were discussing got derailed about the time you mentioned granny.  Ventilator shortage or excess didn't seem to be the heart of the issue.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You need this.



Why?


----------



## omgcat (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> What kind of cloth?  What kind of density?



maybe you should read more instead of flailing about.
these two links are a thing called a source.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

if you open them you can read all sorts of cool information like

"*we have measured the filtration efficiencies of various commonly available fabrics for use as cloth masks* in filtering particles in the significant (for aerosol-based virus transmission) size range of ∼10 nm to ∼6 μm and have presented filtration efficiency data as a function of aerosol particle size. *We find that cotton, natural silk, and chiffon can provide good protection, typically above 50% in the entire 10 nm to 6.0 μm range, provided they have a tight weave.
*
you even get cool pictures like





Figure 3. Filtration efficiency of individual fabrics at a flow rate of 1.2 CFM (without gap). (a) Plot showing the filtration efficiencies of a cotton quilt consisting of two 120 threads per inch (TPI) cotton sheets enclosing a ∼0.5 cm thick cotton batting, 80 TPI quilters cotton (Q Cotton 80 TPI), and a 600 TPI cotton (cotton 600 TPI). (b) Plot showing the filtration efficiencies of one layer of natural silk (Silk-1L), four layers of natural silk (Silk-4L), one layer of flannel, and one layer of chiffon. The error bars on the <300 nm measurements are higher, particularly for samples with high filtration efficiencies because of the small number of particles generated in this size range, the relatively poorer counting efficiency of the detector at <300 nm particle size, and the very small counts downstream of the sample. The sizes of the error bars for some of the data points (>300 nm) are smaller than the symbol size and hence not clearly visible.

heck even the information in that image is explained!


what a wondrous thing.

but I'm pretty sure you never bothered to click the links.

please educate yourself on:

1. gathering and citing sources

2. reading sources cited to you

3. argument formation and presentation

for the sake of clarity, Eastwald stated cloth masks were only 10% effective which i took the time to prove wrong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mammastuffing said:


> Why?



I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a militant atheist which is sort of correct. I don't actively hate religious people, but i have a ton of contempt for them after my childhood friend hanged himself in his closet with a sweater because of the abuse of his born-again christian step-father, as well as the childhood abuse.of my wife by the Jehovah's witnesses and their subsequent cover-up of it (see recent news about a bunch of this shit coming to light).

one doesn't need a religious doctrine to have a moral framework.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

omgcat said:


> for the sake of clarity, Morovan stated cloth masks were only 10% effective which i took the time to prove wrong.



TBH, masks won't do anything if wearing them gives people mental license to be 10x more invasive and careless.  Take care of yourselves and "God be with you".  Of course mental health and comfort are very important.  People overcome and make peace with cancer through those kinds of things.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgcat said:


> I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a militant atheist which is sort of correct. I don't actively hate religious people, but i have a ton of contempt for them after my childhood friend hanged himself because of the abuse of his born-again christian step-father, as well as the childhood abuse.of my wife by the Jehovah's witnesses and their subsequent cover-up of it (see recent news about a bunch of this shit coming to light).
> 
> one doesn't need a religious doctrine to have a moral framework.



Sorry.  I wasn't trying to shit on you over your struggle with the G.O.D.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Why?



So maybe you stop acting like a triggered atheist brat that feels the need to start proselytizing anytime someone uses a euphemism with God in it.

If you don't like Western civilizations relationship with Christianity and it's influence on the language get on a tire raft and float your ass to a communist country.   

But regardless of whether you stay or go stop with preaching the good word of your magic nothing in the sky,  from the bottom of my heart : Prick.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgcat said:


> maybe you should read more instead of flailing about.
> these two links are a thing called a source.
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
> ...



Nah I am just going to keep flailing around and not wear a mask, You probably can't catch germs up on a high horse anyways.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> So maybe you stop acting like a triggered atheist brat that feels the need to start proselytizing anytime someone uses a euphemism with God in it.
> 
> If you don't like Western civilizations relationship with Christianity and it's influence on the language get on a tire raft and float your ass to a communist country.
> 
> ...



Haha, wow. You really are the stereotypical Trump supporter. Extremely unintelligent, racist, a gullible fairytale believing religious moron. You believe without evidence and completely lack the ability of critical thinking.

So from the bottom of my heart; go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshat. Good thing is that there are more people like you who die of covid because of your stupidity.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Haha, wow. You really are the stereotypical Trump supporter. Extremely unintelligent, racist, a gullible fairytale believing religious moron. You believe without evidence and completely lack the ability of critical thinking.
> 
> So from the bottom of my heart; go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshat. Good thing is that there are more people like you who die of covid because of your stupidity.




It maybe true that he is ignorant, unintelligent, and a gullible religious moron, but what you are saying would make anyone ashamed of associating with you on a public level.  It looks like you are wishing a handicapped person to die because they are handicapped.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It maybe true that he is ignorant, unintelligent, and a gullible religious moron, but what you are saying would make anyone ashamed of associating with you on a public level.  It looks like you are wishing a handicapped person to die because they are handicapped.



No, what I'm saying is that it's hurting him and people with his mindset more than the ones who are cautious and the the issue seriously, which may be harsh but it is basically survival of the fittest.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want anyone to suffer or die. But I think that losing people with a dangerous mindset will benefit the health of others.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> No, what I'm saying is that it's hurting him and people with his mindset more than me, which may be harsh but it is basically survival of the fittest.



What if he and those people develop a resistance, and you are the one to die out.  Is it a good thing, in that case, too?


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What if he and those people develop a resistance, and you are the one to die out.  Is it a good thing, in that case, too?


No. Because the bad thing is the disregard for other humans. The virus spreading is a symptom of ignorance from people like these. If you fix the symptom you haven't fixed the cause.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> No. Because the bad thing is the disregard for other humans. The virus spreading is a symptom of ignorance from people like these. If you fix the symptom you haven't fixed the cause.


The virus goes wherever it is accepted.  It has nothing to do with ignorance.  We, as a species, are collectively ignorant about the virus.  Many survive it, and some do not.  But to the point, is it survival of the fittest or is it not?  It looks like you are trying to play both sides.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> No. Because the bad thing is the disregard for other humans.





> Good thing is that there are more people like you who die of covid because of your stupidity.



Ladies and gentlemen this is what we call cognitive dissonance, by a obnoxious preachy atheist brat and his parents internet.


But they care so much....!  lulz


Amongst all the idiotic faith based zealots in the world, none are more aggressive, dim and hate filled than the atheist.   I prefer the Satanists & otherkin worshipping dragons and giant kitties to these human refuse.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Ladies and gentlemen this is what we call cognitive dissonance, by a obnoxious preachy atheist brat and his parents internet.
> 
> 
> But they care so much....!  lulz



Maybe you two deserve each other.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Ladies and gentlemen this is what we call cognitive dissonance, by a obnoxious preachy atheist brat and his parents internet.
> 
> 
> But they care so much....!  lulz
> ...



Yeah, and don't forget that I also said



> Don't get me wrong. I don't want anyone to suffer or die. But I think that losing people with a dangerous mindset will benefit the health of others.



The goal is to benefit the health of as many people as possible. You and your mindset is working against that. So yes, I care more about the people who also share the interest of well being for all than you. Sorry to tell you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Yeah, and don't forget that I also said
> 
> 
> 
> The goal is to benefit the health of as many people as possible. You and your mindset is working against that. So yes, I care more about the people who also share the interest of well being for all than you. Sorry to tell you.




You have no clue about my mindset you dim degenerate brat. 

You throw a stereotype on someone because they don't want to listen to your unoriginal parroted Hitchens sermon while you larp as a intellectual Atheist+ super douche and pretend to care about public health.   Go snort some brown-brown, get a big hit of Jenkum and crawl in to a ditch in Liberia.

Your parents failed you, and they should take away your internet.

Brat.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The virus goes wherever it is accepted.  It has nothing to do with ignorance.  We, as a species, are collectively ignorant about the virus.  Many survive it, and some do not.


Yes, what is your point?

I'm not sure if you're being dishonest of if you just aren't getting it. It was an analogy. Groups of people who ignore the virus and expose themselves to it will probably run a higher risk of contracting it. People who contract the virus have a higher risk of dying from it.

Those who avoid it run a lesser risk on contracting it and this lesser risk of dying from it. Do you understand now?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Yes, what is your point?



Friggen hell.  You literally chopped of the point that was declared as "the point".



tabzer said:


> But to the point, is it survival of the fittest or is it not? It looks like you are trying to play both sides.



Don't play dumb.  You two obviously have a different meaning of what "fit" means to you.  You both don't want to live like the other.  Congrats!


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Amongst all the idiotic faith based zealots in the world, none are more aggressive, dim and hate filled than the atheist.


You say nobody is more hate filed than an atheist. Yet most wars in the world have been over religion. 

Abrahamic religions, with their self-defined Jealous God, are the worst in that respect. Every one of them, when it had secular power killed and tortured those who didn’t have exactly the same beliefs.

Christians spent hundreds of years burning heretics and waging religious wars, and those in Africa still do that. Jews under Joshua slaughtered the inhabitants of Palestine on Yahwah’s orders, and aren’t very nice to them even today. And I don’t even have to tell you how Muslims treat unbelievers and apostates.

Good example are the Balkans and Northern Ireland, where the people are very similar racially, but have religious feuds going back centuries based on which religion their ancestors converted to.

Religion also establishes the habit of believing implausible ideas based on ancient ignorant myths, which makes it easy for believers to reject the inconvenient truths of science, like evolution and global warming.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You have no clue about my mindset you dim degenerate brat.
> 
> You throw a stereotype on someone because they don't want to listen to your unoriginal parroted Hitchens sermon while you larp as a intellectual Atheist+ super douche and pretend to care about public health.   Go snort some brown-brown, get a big hit of Jenkum and crawl in to a ditch in Liberia.
> 
> ...



I don't see how wanting to have an honest, evidence based discussion would make someone a brat. I tried having a normal discussion but then you along and cross the line with insults. I'm sorry, I'm human so it take it personal so I came back at you. Seriously, can we just back up and keep it civil?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Friggen hell.  You literally chopped of the point that was declared as "the point".
> 
> 
> 
> Don't play dumb.  You two obviously have a different meaning of what "fit" means to you.  You both don't want to live like the other.  Congrats!


Sorry, I don't think we're going to be able to have a discussion because I don't seem to understand you and you don't seem to understand me. You seem to think that I was making an argument which you want me to defend. It wasn't an argument and I've tried clarifying what I said but it almost seems like you deliberately are trying to misunderstand what I'm saying.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Sorry, I don't think we're going to be able to have a discussion because I don't seem to understand you and you don't seem to understand me.



Well, when I say that something is "the point", it means that it is the actual point.  And let me reiterate.  If you believe in the creed of "survival of the fittest", and jumbo13 just happens to be stronger than you--that would make him your revered natural order.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> You say nobody is more hate filed than an atheist. Yet most wars in the world have been over religion.
> 
> Abrahamic religions, with their self-defined Jealous God, are the worst in that respect. Every one of them, when it had secular power killed and tortured those who didn’t have exactly the same beliefs.
> 
> ...




I don't converse with you, I am not interested in your constant victim mentality, dyslexia or hormone issues while you whine about how everyone in the world is against you.

Go back to liking the comments of people smart enough to make the points you can't.

Atheist Gosateizm  killed more people in the 1900s than religion ever has or ever will.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Well, when I make a point, I call it "the point".  And let me reiterate.  If you believe in the creed of "survival of the fittest", and jumbo13 just happens to be stronger than you--that would make him your revered natural order.


Survival of the fittest is not a creed. It is a phrase to describe natural selection. It is a process in nature that pushes evolution. Nothing more.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Survival of the fittest is not a creed. It is a phrase to describe natural selection. It is a process in nature that pushes evolution. Nothing more.


It's also what you say that you believe, and has been referenced, by you, as the explanation of your behavior.  That definitely makes the way you used it a creed.  It's English.  Not rocket science.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's also what you say that you believe, and has been referenced, by you, as the explanation of your behavior.  That definitely makes the way you used it a creed.  It's English.  Not rocket science.


What did I say that I believe? That natural selection exists? Then yes. I don't understand why this is such a controversy. Do you not accept that evolution is real? And no, it is not a creed to accept scientific models.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> What did I say that I believe? That natural selection exists? Then yes. I don't understand why this is such a controversy. Do you not accept that evolution is real? And no, it is not a creed to accept scientific models.


The controversy is in how you define "fit", as I have mentioned already.  Can you try to digest the entirety of a post before posting an emotional response? 



mammastuffing said:


> And no, it is not a creed to accept scientific models.


Accepting scientific models, no.  Using them to rationalize how you live your life, especially based on how you interpret their implications--definitely yes.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 24, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I don't converse with you, I am not interested in your constant victim mentality, dyslexia or hormone issues while you whine about how everyone in the world is against you.
> 
> Go back to liking the comments of people smart enough to make the points you can't.
> 
> .


To quote Socrates 

When you resort to name calling it shows the lack of intelligence and knowledge you actually have.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The controversy is in how you define "fit", as I have mentioned already.  Can you try to digest the entirety of a post before posting an emotional response?



Nice straw man. As far as I am concerned I have not defined the word "fit". And you haven't presented any clear objection to what whatever you think I've defined it as. But if we are debating what the word fit means in the context of survival of the fittest. What I mean when I'm talking about it is how it is used in the terms of natural selection. That's it. I can only refer you the theory after that. 



tabzer said:


> Accepting scientific models, no.  Using them to rationalize how you live your life, especially based on how you interpret their implications--definitely yes.



Again, I don't understand what you're talking about. Whose interpretation are we talking about here? Sounds like the intrepretation of your straw man.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 24, 2020)

158 pages


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Nice straw man. As far as I am concerned I have not defined the word "fit". And you haven't presented any clear objection to what whatever you think I've defined it as. But if we are debating what the word fit means in the context of survival of the fittest. What I mean when I'm talking about it is how it is used in the terms of natural selection. That's it. I can only refer you the theory after that.



You used the phrase,"survival of the fittest" to describe your approach (and anticipated survival), while PREACHING of jumbo13's anticipated (and hopeful) demise.  Let me be frank.  Do you think it is fit to run away from a virus, or do you think it is fit to confront/survive a virus?  Can it be possible that both are correct?  Why does jumbo have to fail, and you succeed, for survival of the fittest to be even be inserted into the conversation?  How you decide to apply your understanding of science doesn't make what you do "science".  Science is study, not proselytization.  There is no, "I respect science, so therefore I am superior".  No.  You are just an *******.



mammastuffing said:


> Again, I don't understand what you're talking about. Whose interpretation are we talking about here? Sounds like the intrepretation of your straw man.



Strawman is a nice buzzword.  Maybe you can figure out what it means someday.



jupitteer said:


> 158 pages



159 is next.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 24, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You used the phrase,"survival of the fittest" to describe your approach (and anticipated survival), while PREACHING of jumbo13's anticipated (and hopeful) demise.



First of all, yeah, I got angry at him for being rude and I said something I shouldn't have and I apologized for it.



tabzer said:


> Let me be frank.Do you think it is fit to run away from a virus, or do you think it is fit to confront/survive a virus? Can it be possible that both are correct?



Both could be fit, for sure. I think I would say that any genome that can survive in its environment and procreate is fit for that environment.



tabzer said:


> Why does jumbo have to fail, and you succeed, for survival of the fittest to be even be inserted into the conversation?



Yeah, it's probably not applicable in the context and I'll concede that. If that was your whole point, then you need to work on how to make your points more clear.



tabzer said:


> How you decide to apply your understanding of science doesn't make what you do "science".  Science is study, not proselytization.  There is no, "I respect science, so therefore I am superior". No.  You are just an asshole.



Yeah... *I'm* the asshole, good one.


----------



## smf (Nov 24, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> You say nobody is more hate filed than an atheist. Yet most wars in the world have been over religion.



Well that was often the excuse but people create religions so they can control people & when it gets big enough, then they go to war.
The people who buy into the religion are not necessarily bad people, although they might be but you get good and bad atheists too.

There are pros and cons with religions and with atheism.

I think many religions have gotten it backwards, they have a creation myth which is supposed to justify their rules. Why not do what (some) atheists do and have rules that justify themselves?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Yeah, it's probably not applicable in the context and I'll concede that. If that was your whole point, then you need to work on how to make your points more clear.



Maybe I ended up being too impatient with you, but I was being subtle so you could own it.  Maybe it's a cultural difference that is difficult to understand.



mammastuffing said:


> Yeah... *I'm* the asshole, good one.



"The" asshole is an exclusive term.  I try my best to respect the nuance.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 24, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> 158 pages


58 pages ago I said they'd need 200 more to get out all the tears.  They're well on their way.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 24, 2020)

Xzi said:


> 58 pages ago I said they'd need 200 more to get out all the tears.  They're well on their way.


How dare you say that and not link the reference?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 24, 2020)

What happen with all those lawsuit? Pennsylvania's secretary of state on Tuesday certified the results of its presidential election, confirming that President-elect Joe Biden defeated President Donald Trump ..


----------



## smf (Nov 24, 2020)

djpannda said:


> What happen with all those lawsuit? Pennsylvania's secretary of state on Tuesday certified the results of its presidential election, confirming that President-elect Joe Biden defeated President Donald Trump ..



They've said they want the lawsuits thrown out so they can appeal them up to the supreme court.

I'm not convinced this isn't just a tactic to enrage their base for Trump 2024. If he isn't in prison by then


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 24, 2020)

Don't worry, Hunter's laptop will save the day.


----------



## rensenware (Nov 24, 2020)

smf said:


> They've said they want the lawsuits thrown out so they can appeal them up to the supreme court.
> 
> I'm not convinced this isn't just a tactic to enrage their base for Trump 2024. If he isn't in prison by then


Failing up to the supreme court is not a viable strategy- appelate courts, which the Supreme Court is one of, do not allow the introduction of new facts or evidence into a case. They merely reexamine cases that have been appealed.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 24, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Failing up to the supreme court is not a viable strategy- appelate courts, which the Supreme Court is one of, do not allow the introduction of new facts or evidence into a case. They merely reexamine cases that have been appealed.


And they won't hear a case that's already been refused a hearing by a lower court.  They'll never reach as high as the Supreme Court.

At this point, I think every state Trump was "contesting" has had its vote certified anyway (save maybe PA).  Overturning the vote was a long shot BEFORE it was certified.  Afterward, there's zero chance of that happening.  No judge is going to risk  their seat by ruling that elections don't matter.  Trump might as well be last week's rotting garbage now, even to people who were appointed by him.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 24, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I tried to watch that but as soon as I saw it was Vaush-oline, I quickly had to stop it and erase my watch history.  Thanks for trying to have my Youtube recommended videos fill up with racist left-wing mush brained shit.


pretty cringe
the others at least engaged with _a_ point even if it derailed or wasn't the true point of the video
at least there's hope that the others are capable of listening to- if not absorbing- discussion

you're pretty sad



jimbo13 said:


> Biden's not getting a mandate we are going full civil unrest till compromise or suit for peace occurs.


Okay, so you don't have a line and are just looking for concessions. That's an answer.



gregory-samba said:


> I approached the issue with an open mind by stating "maybe he won, maybe he lost, let's see what the court cases turn up" and so far the court cases haven't turned up any wide spread voter fraud.


I mean, that's good. You've grasped the fact that fraud has not been proven through evidence. That's a step in the right direction.



gregory-samba said:


> I didn't want to watch 18 minutes because the main in the video starts off claiming he's a socialist and socialism would ruin the USA, but the intent of the video is fine by me ....


This... Man, this part breaks my heart. I'm sure you're gonna take this as an insult, but I genuinely feel bad that someone holding another view than you causes you to have to limit your exposure to them. You seem like a cult member who can't have friends outside the "family"... You even said the intent was fine, but you still had to get rid of it.

Fuck, I dunno. Best of luck, dude.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 24, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> This... Man, this part breaks my heart. I'm sure you're gonna take this as an insult, but I genuinely feel bad that someone holding another view than you causes you to have to limit your exposure to them. You seem like a cult member who can't have friends outside the "family"... You even said the intent was fine, but you still had to get rid of it.
> 
> Fuck, I dunno. Best of luck, dude.



Nah, I just don't like spending my time listening to bullshit socialists. History has proven time and time again what happens. You're not going to be able to sell me it. I watched enough to get the general idea of what he was trying to convey. That's more than someone on the left would do with right wing media.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 24, 2020)

More than 80 million votes for Joe Biden.


----------



## smf (Nov 24, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Failing up to the supreme court is not a viable strategy- appelate courts, which the Supreme Court is one of, do not allow the introduction of new facts or evidence into a case. They merely reexamine cases that have been appealed.



Does that matter? His legal team is obviously crazy, they might think that Amy Coney Barrett will save them.



gregory-samba said:


> History has proven time and time again what happens.



What happens? Can you provide examples, should be easy.



Xzi said:


> Overturning the vote was a long shot BEFORE it was certified.  Afterward, there's zero chance of that happening.  No judge is going to risk  their seat by ruling that elections don't matter.



What would happen if there was actually fraud & not Trump's imagined fraud?

Surely there should be some remedy for that after the certification?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 24, 2020)

smf said:


> What would happen if there was actually fraud & not Trump's imagined fraud?


It would have been discovered during the recount for any given state at the latest.  Once the vote is certified, that's that.  Trump's legal team has presented exactly zero evidence of fraud.  Just a lot of meaningless talk.


----------



## smf (Nov 24, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It would have been discovered during the recount for any given state at the latest.



How? I am not saying that there was any fraud, but if illegal ballots were present in the first count then they will be present in the second. If evidence turned up next year, what would happen?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 24, 2020)

smf said:


> How? I am not saying that there was any fraud, but if illegal ballots were present in the first count then they will be present in the second. If evidence turned up next year, what would happen?


If there's no evidence now, there's not suddenly going to be any new evidence a year after the vote is certified.  Every ballot is checked against voter registration data, both parties have people in the room who do that during the count, as well as managers/overseers.


----------



## smf (Nov 24, 2020)

Xzi said:


> If there's no evidence now, there's not suddenly going to be any new evidence a year after the vote is certified.



If they used that argument with other crimes then nothing would get solved.

With everything on computer now, I wonder just how possible it would be to hack in and register people.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> If they used that argument with other crimes then nothing would get solved.
> 
> With everything on computer now, I wonder just how possible it would be to hack in and register people.



extremely difficult because of off-site backups that get cross checked. the laundry list of shit that would need to be done to do a leave no trace hack is crazy.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> If they used that argument with other crimes then nothing would get solved.


Variables surrounding those crimes would change things over time.  In this case, we're talking about cold, hard data.  The data isn't going to suddenly change itself a year from now or even fifty years from now, so if nobody can find evidence of fraud now, they aren't going to find it later either. 



smf said:


> With everything on computer now, I wonder just how possible it would be to hack in and register people.


Consider that you're essentially suggesting fabricating nonexistent people with nonexistent lives, given the documentation you need to register.  It _might_ be doable, but then the question becomes on what scale and for how long can you maintain the ruse.  Short of perhaps the Illuminati, I don't think any organization would have the resources and manpower to pull it off, then keep everybody involved quiet about it.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It _might_ be doable, but then the question becomes on what scale *and for how long can you maintain the ruse*.  Short of perhaps the Illuminati, I don't think any organization would have the resources and manpower to pull it off, then keep everybody involved quiet about it.



Say a year. What would happen to the election result?

Is it literally that once inaugurated there is nothing that can be done?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Say a year. What would happen to the election result?
> 
> Would the president stay in office for their entire term?


I can't say for certain, such a massive voter fraud operation has never occurred in the US.  Generally when we get to that scale, it's a lot easier to attempt election fraud instead, and the consequences are guaranteed to be far less severe for a person already in a position of power.  In Georgia's case, it was pretty clear that election fraud had changed the result in 2018, but the Republican responsible for that fraud was still given the position.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I can't say for certain, such a massive voter fraud operation has never occurred in the US.



Never been known to occur ;-)



Xzi said:


> In Georgia's case, it was pretty clear that election fraud had changed the result in 2018, but the Republican responsible for that fraud was still given the position.



That is kinda insane


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I can't say for certain, such a massive voter fraud operation has never occurred in the US.


You just admitted that Russian collusion was a myth.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

Ah so now we are at the point of UltraSUPRA posting comics by a well known Neo Nazi who said the holocaust never happened. That's a new low even for you.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Ah so now we are at the point of UltraSUPRA posting comics by a well known Neo Nazi who said the holocaust never happened. That's a new low even for you.


Like him or not, he doesn't miss. (Except for the holocaust comics. Maybe.)


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Say a year. What would happen to the election result?
> 
> Is it literally that once inaugurated there is nothing that can be done?



I can't imagine a scenario where they wouldn't leave office, if they were complicit it would probably be by impeachment issue.  If the judiciary wasn't willing to remove them they would Resign or some kind of agreement would come out of the senate or congress to deal with the lack of process for such a incident.

2004 Kerry-Bush was a rigged election, Diebold machines.  Mostly it just gets swept under the rug.  Election fraud and pretending our elections are free & fair has bi-partisan support.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Like him or not, he doesn't miss. (Except for the holocaust comics. Maybe.)


He misses being funny

Basically, the whole point of the strip he currently does (and his previous one, Red Panels) is to serve as something of a primer for neo-Nazi views. They’re designed to bait readers in with meme-y strips that aren’t overtly offensive, and to then attempt to gradually ease the reader into harboring those views themselves as they go through the archives.

Attempt being the keyword, because a lot of his more extreme views require you to have already drunken the Kool-aid pretty damn deeply to not instinctively go “what the fuck?”, like the one where he tried claiming that the Holocaust was at least somewhat to blame on the Allies bombing food supply routes.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> the one where he tried claiming that the Holocaust was at least somewhat to blame on the Allies bombing food supply routes.


You're making junk up.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're making junk up.


No I'm not its right there on the web to see if you actually take the time to search.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> No I'm not its right there on the web to see if you actually take the time to search.


Alright, I'm diving back through the Stonetoss archives.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alright, I'm diving back through the Stonetoss archives.


Here is one such example of him denying the holocaust happened there are many more.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alright, I'm diving back through the Stonetoss archives.



You shouldn't, the cartoon you posted was spot on & reasonable satire.  Don't engage ad-hominem attacks and advocating canceling people because they can't take issue with the current content.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Here is one such example of him denying the holocaust happened there are many more. View attachment 235277





UltraSUPRA said:


> (Except for the holocaust comics. Maybe.)


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

You said I was making up junk about him saying the holocaust never happened I showed you he did.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> You said I was making up junk about him saying the holocaust never happened I showed you he did.


I knew that there were some comics where he denies the holocaust. It was the part about starvation that threw me for a loop.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I knew that there were some comics where he denies the holocaust. It was the part about starvation that threw me for a loop.


The alies were bombing parts of Germany and Poland to stop the supply route to the German Army. In his strip above he says the prisoners died from insufficient supply lines. That is him blaming the deaths on the Allies bombing the supply line


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 25, 2020)

Stonetoss is pretty cringe in general, but JESUS. Protesting to stop systemic racism is not of equivalent value to having a family dinner, idiots


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Stonetoss is pretty cringe in general, but JESUS. Protesting to stop systemic racism is not of equivalent value to having a family dinner, idiots


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You just admitted that Russian collusion was a myth.


Wrong, that was election interference.  We don't know to what extent election fraud may have been a part of that.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> Stonetoss is pretty cringe in general, but JESUS. Protesting to stop systemic racism is not of equivalent value to having a family dinner, idiots



You don't get to decide the value of a gathering for others based on your sensibilities, either gatherings are banned or they aren't.

The inconsistency of principle is why these issues are not taken seriously.

I assure you my family gathering matters much more to me than crack heads dying resisting arrest.

The Hot light at Krispy Kreme matters.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You don't get to decide the value of a gathering for others based on your sensibilities, either gatherings are banned or they aren't.


Indoor gatherings are banned, outdoor gatherings still pose some risk, though it is reduced.



jimbo13 said:


> I assure you my family gathering matters much more to me than crack heads dying resisting arrest.


And I assure you that a good portion of your extended family is happy to have an excuse to avoid seeing you this holiday season.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Indoor gatherings are banned, outdoor gatherings still pose some risk, though it is reduced. And I assure you that a good portion of your extended family is happy to have an excuse to avoid seeing you this holiday season.



If you want to sit there and pretend the BLM/ANTIFA trash wasn't treated differently than other gatherings by liberal mayors/governors while similar gatherings were harassed you go ahead and keep being a pos liar or ignorant.

And I'll be seeing and gathering with the same family I do every year, maybe you can drive down skidrow or some of the hooker spots and find your family.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> If you want to sit there and pretend the BLM/ANTIFA trash wasn't treated differently than other gatherings by liberal mayors/governors while similar gatherings were harassed you go ahead and keep being a pos liar or ignorant.


The mayors/governors don't do shit regardless of who's gathering, and the police treat fascists preferentially, because many of them are also fascists.



jimbo13 said:


> And I'll be seeing and gathering with the same family I do every year


Ah, good old boys gonna have yourselves an ol' fashioned rona spreadin' party?  Well by all means, don't let me stand in the way of a faster transmission rate amongst your family.  Might as well make it a theme while you're at it, bring exclusively Corona beers.  That's how Biden won Georgia.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Ah, good old boys gonna have yourselves an ol' fashioned rona spreadin' party?  Well by all means, don't let me stand in the way of a faster transmission rate amongst your family.  Might as well make it a theme while you're at it, bring exclusively Corona beers.  That's how Biden won Georgia.


"Whup, we're gonna have to shut down the entire holiday because SOMEBODY got themselves the cold a few weeks ago!"


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

Are indoor gatherings really banned?  That is so crazy.  That has nothing to do with stopping Covid.  That would be an overreach in order to stifle organized rebellion.  Never let a good crisis go to waste.


----------



## wartutor (Nov 25, 2020)

According to all these liberal fucks if you wear your mask it should be ok to do about anything in large crowds with multiple families, so wear your mask it protects you, RIGHT, OR IS IT A BUNCH OF BULL SHIT. If your worried about catching something with a .2 mortality rate then lock your ass up at home and leave us the fuck alone.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "Whup, we're gonna have to shut down the entire holiday because SOMEBODY got themselves the cold a few weeks ago!"


And it's exactly that failure to take the pandemic seriously which is what lost your party the election.



tabzer said:


> Are indoor gatherings really banned?  That is so crazy.  That has nothing to do with stopping Covid.  That would be an overreach in order to stifle organized rebellion.  Never let a good crisis go to waste.


Only in states where cases are hitting a critical mass again with the second wave, and it's only restricted to ten or fewer people.  It's based on the same CDC recommendations regardless of who is sitting president.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You just admitted that Russian collusion was a myth.


Got Em!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> And it's exactly that failure to take the pandemic seriously which is what lost your party the election.


Getting sick is a part of life.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Getting sick is a part of life.


It's certainly not a requirement, and intentionally spreading sickness is a dick move regardless of whether it's the plague or the common cold.  It was a criminal act even before COVID-19, actually.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I assure you my family gathering matters much more to me than crack heads dying resisting arrest.


cringe
human life is worth more than seeing family


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> cringe
> human life is worth more than seeing family


I'd rather have my family than myself.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> It's certainly not a requirement, and intentionally spreading sickness is a dick move regardless of whether it's the plague or the common cold.  It was a criminal act even before COVID-19, actually.


If you're sick, stay home.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you're sick, stay home.


Good advice most of the time, but in this case you can be asymptomatic and still carry/spread the virus.  It would be a lot easier to avoid if symptoms were clearly visible in 100% of carriers.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Good advice most of the time, but in this case you can be asymptomatic and still carry/spread the virus.  It would be a lot easier to avoid if symptoms were visible in 100% of carriers.


Then it's not intentional, is it?


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Then it's not intentional, is it?


It is very much intentional, it's malicious stupidity mirroring Trump's own preference for going maskless.  Now the right-wing is dying off at a much faster rate than they would have naturally, but hey, anything to "own the libs," right?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It is very much intentional, it's malicious stupidity mirroring Trump's own preference for going maskless.  Now the right-wing is dying off at a much faster rate than they would have naturally, but hey, anything to "own the libs," right?


I mean it's not exactly my responsibility to protect people that aren't part of my family but ok.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

Imagine imposing your shitty believes on people indirectly and thinking you aren't responsible because you're not related


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> Imagine imposing your shitty believes on people indirectly and thinking you aren't responsible because you're not related


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I mean it's not exactly my responsibility to protect people that aren't part of my family but ok.


You're right, it's the government's responsibility to protect them by issuing a mask mandate, and rapidly distributing a vaccine as soon as a safe and effective one is ready.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You're right, it's the government's responsibility to protect them by issuing a mask mandate, and rapidly distributing a vaccine as soon as a safe and effective one is ready.


It's not the government's responsibility, either. Keeping you safe is exclusively the responsibility of yourself and your family.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

You're too young to comprehend half the shit you're saying. Thought you might have learned some stuff since last time, but I see you've decided to go down with your shitty beliefs. The way you back up your beliefs is atrocious too. Garbage tier memes don't make a point, and one doesn't speak for all.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> It's not the government's responsibility, either. Keeping you safe is exclusively the responsibility of yourself and your family.


That's a lot easier to do when you wear masks


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> That's a lot easier to do when you wear masks


If you want to, go ahead. I won't.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

Guess you don't want to protect your family, even though there's plenty of scientific proof with actual sources.
Unlike your memes.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> Guess you don't want to protect your family, even though there's plenty of scientific proof with actual sources.
> Unlike your memes.


Every member of my family who lives in this state agrees with me.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

Must suck to have a family full of skeptics that won't trust doctors who have gone to school for  8+ years


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's not the government's responsibility, either. Keeping you safe is exclusively the responsibility of yourself and your family.


Masks can be super effective in reducing the transmission rate of a virus, but only if EVERYBODY is wearing them.  The more holdouts there are, the worse this latest spike is going to get, and that means even more restrictions on your state.  I guess if you prefer full-on quarantine again to a bit of mask wearing, you do you.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> Must suck to have a family full of skeptics that won't trust doctors who have gone to school for  8+ years


Question everything.


Xzi said:


> Masks can be super effective in reducing the transmission rate of a virus, but only if EVERYBODY is wearing them.  The more holdouts there are, the worse this latest spike is going to get, and that means even more restrictions on your state.  I guess if you prefer full-on quarantine again to a bit of mask wearing, you do you.


Give me liberty or give me death.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

Yes, you the 15 year old boy with the family that doesn't trust doctors who have worked their asses off, should question the doctors, and not only question them, but outright refuse to acknowledge their full scientific explanation because your family doesn't. 
Fucking brilliant


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Give me liberty or give me death.


Hey man, you don't gotta kill yourself just because your state can't manage to act like responsible adults for two weeks straight.  If you made it through the first quarantine, I'm sure you'll make it through the second just fine.


----------



## wartutor (Nov 25, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> cringe
> human life is worth more than seeing family


Yeah unless the family you would of seen dies before you get to see them again. Tell me if your mother died next january what would you give to see her in november if you didnt because you are worried about a stupid virus.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Hey man, you don't gotta kill yourself just because your state can't manage to act like responsible adults for two weeks straight.  If you made it through the first quarantine, I'm sure you'll make it through the second just fine.


Quarantine is when you restrict the movement of the sick.
Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of the healthy.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

It's impossible to know who is and isn't healthy due to how many people in the world there are. Lots of people have it and don't know it and give it to other people. There's a reason it's an umbrella rule. Because getting tested means you didn't have it when you got tested, you can have it literally 5 minutes later. So instead of testing literally everyone and wasting shit tons of money. They expect people to have the common courtesy to follow mandates.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

you know what, please, go ahead continue not wearing masks, see where that gets you. If you get covid and long term effects it's not my problem. You won't care about wearing a mask, so it's only fair for me to wish that you get covid since that is exactly what game you'll be playing.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I'm really tired of you denying masks, so please, go ahead, not wear masks, see where that gets you.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> Yes, you the 15 year old boy with the family that doesn't trust doctors who have worked their asses off, should question the doctors, and not only question them, but outright refuse to acknowledge their full scientific explanation because your family doesn't.
> Fucking brilliant



Trusting doctor's just because they are doctors--not brilliant.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> Yes, you the 15 year old boy with the family that doesn't trust doctors who have worked their asses off, should question the doctors, and not only question them, but outright refuse to acknowledge their full scientific explanation because your family doesn't.
> Fucking brilliant



There is no shortage of doctors and medical professionals opposing quarantines and masking, but challenging progressive mandates makes them a quack in your limited partisan view.

The only people diminishing science are facebook experts and people like yourselves screaming "FUCKING SCIENCE FUCK FUCK SCIENCE SETTLED FLAT EARTHER".

There is no settled consistent science when it comes to covid and claiming otherwise just makes you a derpy stereotype that couldn't question Authority if it was named Alex Trebek.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> you know what, please, go ahead continue not wearing masks, see where that gets you. If you get covid and long term effects it's not my problem. You won't care about wearing a mask, so it's only fair for me to wish that you get covid.
> I'm really tired of you denying masks, so please, go ahead, not wear masks, see where that gets you.


I would if this state didn't mandate them. I wish I was living in South Dakota right now.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I would if this state didn't mandate them. I wish I was living in South Dakota right now.


well if it's such a harm to your first amendment, go ahead and not wear it, go protest over it.Be stupid


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Ooh, lookie what I found!





--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> well if it's such a harm to your first amendment, go ahead and not wear it, go protest over it.Be stupid


I don't live near the capital of my state. Otherwise, I've been actually wanting to protest peacefully.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Ooh, lookie what I found!
> View attachment 235306


Yeah and? My friend has covid 19. He's not in the best condition


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> You won't care about wearing a mask, so it's only fair for me to wish that you get covid.



That's not what fair means.  Wishing ill on someone because they take risks doesn't make it fair.  That's so dumb.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Trusting doctor's just because they are doctors--not brilliant.


if you read what I wrote, it would be clear that I'm not saying not to question them. I'm saying that denying what hundred, thousands, the majority of medically trained professionals is ridiculous


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't live near the capital of my state. Otherwise, I've been actually wanting to protest peacefully.


Then go bitch to your local governor, call them up.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> That's not what fair means.  Wishing ill on someone because they take risks doesn't make it fair.  That's so dumb.


play stupid games, win stupid prizes.You want to play stupid games of playing fire with a virus? Please go on ahead, you win stupid prizes as a result.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah and? My friend has covid 19. He's not in the best condition


I wish him well. That doesn't mean I'm going to comply.


monkeyman4412 said:


> Then go bitch to your local governor, call them up.


I am one man.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I wish him well. That doesn't mean I'm going to comply.
> 
> I am one man.


Go call up the people that have the same view as you, go make a protest
see what happens


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Go call up the people that have the same view as you, go make a protest
> see what happens


I won't be able to show up, so what's the point?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> play stupid games, win stupid prizes.



I know that phrase too.  But let's not pretend wishing for people to get hurt because they disagree with you is "fair".  That's shameful.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I won't be able to show up, so what's the point?


Oh I thought this was about democracy? Your seriously telling me that masks mandates are a violation of the constitution (you've argued that position) and you won't make time to show up?
Interesting complexion right there


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh I thought this was about democracy? Your seriously telling me that masks mandates are a violation of the constitution (you've argued that position) and you won't make time to show up?
> Interesting complexion right there


I don't even have a driver's license or learner's permit yet.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I know that phrase too.  But let's not pretend wishing for people to get hurt because they disagree with you is "fair".  That's shameful.


It's not a disagreement at this point, at this point people with these views are toying with hundreds to thousands of people's lives. It's disgusting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't even have a driver's license or learner's permit yet.


So you can't make one in your local area? Can't contact anyone? surely you could muster something within a walk able distance.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Quarantine is when you restrict the movement of the sick.
> Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of the healthy.


Yes, you've made this half-assed argument in the past.  The fact remains that a mask mandate is about as "tyrannical" as a parent setting a limit on the amount of ice cream their child can eat.  And any further lockdowns would be issued solely as a consequence of our own actions.  It's not an ideal situation by anybody's standards, but most of us just take it on the chin and keep moving forward instead of stopping to cry about it.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yes, you've made this half-assed argument in the past.  The fact remains that a mask mandate is about as "tyrannical" as a parent setting a limit on the amount of ice cream their child can eat.  And any further lockdowns would be issued solely as a consequence of our own actions.  It's not an ideal situation by anybody's standards, but most of us just take it on the chin and keep moving forward instead of stopping to cry about it.


Imagine comparing radical lifestyle changes and revocation of individual liberty in pursuit of """""safety""""" to minor limits on desserts.


monkeyman4412 said:


> So you can't make one in your local area? Can't contact anyone? surely you could muster something within a walk able distance.


I doubt that it'll make an impact if it's not near the capital.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> It's not a disagreement at this point, at this point people with these views are toying with hundreds of people's lives. It's disgusting.



So wish for them to get covid so they can spread it to the hundreds of people that they are toying with?  You truly are being dumb and malicious.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 25, 2020)

Putting on a mask to prevent getting sick and prevent spreading sickness isn't a radical life style change and has been done in places all around the world, albeit less so in usa, but again, not a radical change


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Mythical said:


> Putting on a mask to prevent getting sick and prevent spreading sickness isn't a radical life style change and has been done in places all around the world, albeit less so in usa, but again, not a radical change


If you choose to do so, go ahead. I'll choose not to. It's not my responsibility to keep you safe, it's yours.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So wish for them to get covid so they can spread it to the hundreds of people that they are toying with?  You truly are being dumb and malicious.


I'm sorry, I didn't know it was malicious to say that. Perhaps I flipped a lid because we are still FUCKING HAVING AN ARGUMENT ABOUT MASKS ALMOST 11 MONTHS INTO THE FUCKING PANDEMIC.
Those morons who seriously think masks won't help, I encourage them to play with that fire, see where it gets them. It's only malicious to specifically to those who are willfully ignorant causing others to suffer. If it requires them to touch the damn fire to figure out that they REALLY should be wearing masks, then I go full on ahead and say let them do it. Let them hurt themselves because I'm done with this bullshit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Most countries have got back to normal. And by that I mean stopped the pandemic in there area. Meanwhile here we are fucking still having it.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine comparing radical lifestyle changes and revocation of individual liberty in pursuit of """""safety""""" to minor limits on desserts.


"Radical lifestyle changes" he says lmao.  Nobody said you had to go marry Rush Limbaugh in Vegas.  It's wearing a soft piece of cloth over your face whenever you go out for the next few months, until the vaccine can be distributed.  The way you tell it though, that's probably the equivalent of the Holocaust.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> "Radical lifestyle changes" he says lmao.  Nobody said you had to go marry Rush Limbaugh in Vegas.  It's wearing a soft piece of cloth over your face whenever you go out for the next few months, until the vaccine can be distributed.  The way you tell it though, that's probably the equivalent of the Holocaust.


A world without smiling faces isn't a world worth living in.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> A world without smiling faces isn't a world worth living in.


oh I'm sorry, I didn't know we were surgically sewing your mouth shut.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, I forgot 
*you can take off masks at home stop making idiotic phrases*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also smiles aren't just the lips, you can still tell if someone is smiling by eyebrows.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> oh I'm sorry, I didn't know we were surgically sewing your mouth shut.
> Oh wait, I'm sorry, I forgot
> *you can take off masks at home stop making idiotic phrases*


As for the smiling faces of others?


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> As for the smiling faces of others?


"Also smiles aren't just the lips, you can still tell if someone is smiling by eyebrows."


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> "Also smiles aren't just the lips, you can still tell if someone is smiling by eyebrows."


Not enough.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> A world without smiling faces isn't a world worth living in.


Gee, if only there were some way to see a person's smiling face from a distance, without any possibility of infecting them with a nasty virus...

Nah, such an invention will probably never come about in our lifetime.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Not enough.


https://www.today.com/health/smile-behind-face-mask-can-be-recognized-others-body-language-t183257


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Gee, if only there were some way to see a person's smiling face from a distance, without any possibility of infecting them with a nasty virus...
> 
> Nah, such an invention will probably never come about in our lifetime.


>implying images of smiles are as stimulating as actual smiles


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> >implying images of smiles are as stimulating as actual smiles


Oh I guess images rapidly passing by through packets of data streaming from one device with a webcam to another device with a webcam is impossible

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh let me, guess, skype or discord or insert thing here isn't good enough for you either and then your going to move that conversation.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> https://www.today.com/health/smile-behind-face-mask-can-be-recognized-others-body-language-t183257


"Remember, you're wearing a mask, which is intimidating."
Huh. Interesting. A world with a mask mandate is scarier.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't know it was malicious to say that. Perhaps I flipped a lid because we are still FUCKING HAVING AN ARGUMENT ABOUT MASKS ALMOST 11 MONTHS INTO THE FUCKING PANDEMIC.
> Those morons who seriously think masks won't help, I encourage them to play with that fire, see where it gets them. It's only malicious to specifically to those who are willfully ignorant causing others to suffer. If it requires them to touch the damn fire to figure out that they REALLY should be wearing masks, then I go full on ahead and say let them do it. Let them hurt themselves because I'm done with this bullshit.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...



I don't see it ending anytime soon.  There maybe a vaccine and these types of differences will remain.  Playing with fire, maybe.  But to encourage more recklessness--where is the value in that?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh I guess images rapidly passing by through packets of data streaming from one device with a webcam to another device with a webcam is impossible
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Oh let me, guess, skype or discord or insert thing here isn't good enough for you either and then your going to move that conversation.


Nope. It's gotta be real.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't see it ending anytime soon.  There maybe a vaccine and these types of differences will remain.  Playing with fire, maybe.  But to encourage more recklessness--where is the value in that?


Value is that anti maskers will want to reconsider their position if another situation like this arises. Since they'll have experienced themselves what it's like to not wear a mask and get the full effect of a near lethal  airborne virus


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> >implying images of smiles are as stimulating as actual smiles


They _are_ actual smiles.  They are people you know, smiling in that moment.  But keep moving those goalposts, I'm sure eventually you'll circle the globe.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

Of course I could also go completely  merciless and state that it would kill all the morons. But that would be even too cruel for my liking.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Value is that anti maskers will want to reconsider their position if another situation like this arises. Since they'll have experienced themselves what it's like to not wear a mask and get the full effect of a near lethal  airborne virus


Give me liberty or give me death.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Give me liberty or give me death.


then go do it.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> then go do it.


What he really means when he says that is, "other people should die for my comfort and convenience."  He's a kid, the world still revolves around him.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

My point being @tabzer 
I've tried so much effort into explaining why you should wear a mask, and why it's not unconstitutional and so on. And when you put all that effort and the other side doesn't budge, you eventually say fuck it.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> What he really means when he says that is, "other people should die for my comfort and convenience."  He's a kid, the world still revolves around him.


No cost is too great for individual liberty.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No cost is too great for individual liberty.


So I was right on the money.  Again, the problem remains: that would make you a criminal the second you infringe on someone else's liberty, aka their right to good health and well-being.  You aren't the only individual being referred to by the phrase, "individual liberty."  Masks function by protecting those around the wearer more than the wearer themselves, so in order to preserve as many individual liberties as possible through the rest of this hellish year, we ALL have to wear masks so we are ALL protected.  Otherwise there will be more restrictions (again), and you'll get all pissy about it (again), but ultimately there will be nothing you can change about the situation.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> So I was right on the money.  Again, the problem remains: that would make you a criminal the second you infringe on someone else's liberty, aka their right to good health and well-being.  You aren't the only individual being referred to by the phrase, "individual liberty."  Masks function by protecting those around the wearer more than the wearer themselves, so in order to preserve as many individual liberties as possible through the rest of this hellish year, we ALL have to wear masks so we are ALL protected.  Otherwise there will be more restrictions (again), and you'll get all pissy about it (again), but ultimately there will be nothing you can change about the situation.


What? Mask mandates infringe the liberty of the individual to not wear a mask. Stop pretending that the responsibility of an individual's safety falls on anyone but themselves and their family.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> My point being @tabzer
> I've tried so much effort into explaining why you should wear a mask, and why it's not unconstitutional and so on. And when you put all that effort and the other side doesn't budge, you eventually say fuck it.




So fuck it.  At least you aren't pretending to care about them.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So fuck it.  At least you aren't pretending to care about them.


I used to care. If I didn't care why would I go through all that effort? People have breaking points however with how far they can care. If you ignore science, if you ignore data, if you ignore what experts have said, for *11 months* and repeat the same talking points in a endless loop of similar arguments?!
then yeah
it's becomes really hard to care.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 25, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Yeah unless the family you would of seen dies before you get to see them again. Tell me if your mother died next january what would you give to see her in november if you didnt because you are worried about a stupid virus.


My grandmother died of COVID, I was not able to see her before she passed. I did video calls as often as I could, and I will never truly get over the fact that I wasn't able to see her again. But the case was contained to only three people in her nursing home because of the careful quarantining. If I had gone and gotten COVID I could have passed it on to other people, and by extension to their loved ones. I am not a selfish creature like you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Covid is not a statistically significant risk to your health or life.

The face diapers are useless and members of the ruling class are sitting around at dinner parties laughing at the babies wearing them.

If they wanted effective masking N95 would be available.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What? Mask mandates infringe the liberty of the individual to not wear a mask. Stop pretending that the responsibility of an individual's safety falls on anyone but themselves and their family.


What?  Failing to implement a mask mandate during an active pandemic infringes on the individual's rights of life, liberty AND the pursuit of happiness.  Stop pretending we're still pea-brained hunter-gatherers living in tiny Mesopotamian tribes.  If the science says we need a collective solution in order to keep the individuals alive, that's what we're gonna do.  Bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't change that reality.


----------



## wartutor (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Value is that anti maskers will want to reconsider their position if another situation like this arises. Since they'll have experienced themselves what it's like to not wear a mask and get the full effect of a near lethal  airborne virus


Near lethal wow talk about blowing the mouse up to whale size. .02% mortality rate isnt anywhere near lethal fucking jesus crist lock yourself up if your that scared of it and LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE.



Xzi said:


> So I was right on the money.  Again, the problem remains: that would make you a criminal the second you infringe on someone else's liberty, aka their right to good health and well-being.  You aren't the only individual being referred to by the phrase, "individual liberty."  Masks function by protecting those around the wearer more than the wearer themselves, so in order to preserve as many individual liberties as possible through the rest of this hellish year, we ALL have to wear masks so we are ALL protected.  Otherwise there will be more restrictions (again), and you'll get all pissy about it (again), but ultimately there will be nothing you can change about the situation.


 Again stay the fuck home if ur scared. Infringing on my right to choose because you dont want to fucking stay home is no excuse. Dont like it fuck off


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> What?  Failing to implement a mask mandate during an active pandemic infringes on the individual's rights of life, liberty AND the pursuit of happiness.  Stop pretending we're still pea-brained hunter-gatherers living in tiny Mesopotamian tribes.  If the science says we need a collective solution in order to keep the individuals alive, that's what we're gonna do.  Bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't change that reality.



You have every right to keep your ass at home, no risk of covid there.

And we aren't going to engage in a collective solution, as evident by the sheer number of people telling you to shove the face diaper up your ass.  It's not happening and It's not going to happen.


If your solution is a collective solution you don't have a solution, you have social engineering and a bad plan.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You have every right to keep your ass at home, no risk of covid there.


Just as you have every right to keep your ass at home if your poor little dainty ears get hurt by a mask.  Watching the first fifty or so Karens and Kyles throw a tantrum at minimum wage retail/fast food employees was funny, now it's just sad.



jimbo13 said:


> And we aren't going to engage in a collective solution, as evident by the sheer number of people telling you to shove the face diaper up your ass. It's not happening and It's not going to happen.


We are going to engage in a collective solution, one way or another.  Either we flatten the curve with collective mask-wearing, or we will be going back to mandatory lockdowns in certain states.  It's no skin off my back if you want to do things the hard way, and you'll have only yourself to blame for contributing to the problem instead of to the solution.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> We are going to engage in a collective solution, one way or another.  Either we flatten the curve with collective mask-wearing, or we will be going back to mandatory lockdowns in certain states.  It's no skin off my back if you want to do things the hard way, and you'll have only yourself to blame for contributing to the problem instead of to the solution.


Or...y'know...survival of the fittest.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Or...y'know...survival of the fittest.


If only.  Had Trump been left to fend for himself, he would have died of COVID for sure.  In America it's survival of the wealthiest, and they convince idiots like you to sacrifice their own grandmothers for the good of the stock market.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> We are going to engage in a collective solution, one way or another.



You can't even get the people making the mandates that believe this garbage to comply.  My state will not be mandating anything.

Mandate Newsom is sitting at dinner with healthcare CEOs, while he is telling everyone else to stay home and wear mask.
Progressives are a joke, and as I laugh at you it is unimpeded by a mask.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 25, 2020)

Some people aren't doing the right thing, so everyone should be doing the wrong thing.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Some people aren't doing the right thing, so everyone should be doing the wrong thing.



It's not some people, it's the vast majority of those pushing this garbage.  Generally the most aggressive ones.

Lock downs didn't matter when ANTIFA wanted to go torch Starbucks & loot Macys.

Mask & lockdown mandates have no credibility due to the poor behavior of progressives.



*Michigan governor’s husband under fire for asking to take his boat out during lockdown.*


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> My state will not be mandating anything.


Then you'll end up falling under a federal mandate if things get bad enough.  You conservative plague rats just don't seem to get it, you're only backing yourselves into a smaller and smaller corner.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Then you'll end up falling under a federal mandate if things get bad enough.  You conservative plague rats just don't seem to get it, you're only backing yourselves into a smaller and smaller corner.



Federal mandates aren't legal, wont happen and no amount of tantrumming is going to make anyone wear the face diaper that doesn't want to.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Federal mandates aren't legal, wont happen and no amount of tantrumming is going to make anyone wear the face diaper that doesn't want to.


If all the businesses are forced to close except for carryout/delivery, and you're restricted to essential travel only, no amount of tantrumming is going to get you around those policies.  You can bring your state one step closer to that level of lockdown or help to ensure that's an unnecessary step.  Again, it's no skin off my back which you choose, I'm simply explaining to you the most basic of life lessons: actions have consequences.  Welcome to the real world, buttercup.


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Covid is not a statistically significant risk to your health or life.



Has almost twice the mortality of cancer in certain countries - at peak absolute death rate (currently we are not that far removed from peak):
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-0...and-other-death-causes--U4LJxzQlA4/index.html

Kills more people than road traffic. More than Tuberculosis or AIDS.

Always is in the top 7 of causes of death (even averaged over the year and with testing difficulties (testing capability not spread equally around the world).
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/covid-19-deaths-global-killers-comparison/

And for the fifth time, talking to you - as it is an infectious disease transmitted through droplets and aerosols, rate of spread is the real issue. US is already running dry in the medical sector (people overworked, equipment missing), since 80% of hospitals did not stock up for a second wave (third wave in the US) during summer months (equipment wise) (edit: see: https://www.vox.com/2020/11/21/2158...avirus-cases-surge-hospital-staff-overwhelmed) - so just wait and see. Winter still lasts for another two months, and vaccination cant be rolled out that fast. (To a point, where it reaches significant numbers of people.)


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> If all the businesses are forced to close except for carryout/delivery, and you're restricted to essential travel only, no amount of tantrumming is going to get you around those policies.



Those policies will not be implemented here, and even if they were no one would follow them and if the Democrats think they are going to use military and occupy a American state good luck with that.

This isn't Britain, we don't have a monarchy and you wont be forcing anyone to wear a mask, I realize the beta-serfs in blue cities do whatever a female state employee tells them to but here in Montana we live where it is -40 just so we don't have to hear your effeminate whining or look at your skinny jeans.  We don't even permit you to make eye contact or speak in public if you aren't armed, taking directions from democrats is like letting a middle schooler rape your wife.

*Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot defends hairstylist visit*


----------



## wartutor (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-0...and-other-death-causes--U4LJxzQlA4/index.html


From that "news" story...

It’s hard to know exactly how deadly COVID-19 is due to lack of accurate data. Case-fatality ratios have been crudely calculated as anything from less than 0.1% to over 25% between countries, according to the WHO.

However, you are still much more likely to die from non-communicable diseases – those that are not transmitted between people.


Now how may of these deaths were counted when heart disease and resporatory disease was the real killer and they just "tested" positive for covid and had a high % chance of dying any fucking way.
You lock the whole world up and pay hospitals $ based on how many covid deaths they have and then dont even have real options to test or anyone fact checking the deaths and you end up with mary dying in a car wreck but she had covid...cause of death covid, theres another $1800 for our hospital.


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Case-fatality ratios have been crudely calculated as anything from less than 0.1% to over 25% between countries, according to the WHO.


Thats not the point you give up at. You find a region in your country thats roughly statistically representative of your entire country (on average), and you test the entire population. Then you end up at case fatality rates of about 0.375% (you never end up at 0.1% (fake news?)) but as explained before - that means - if 70% of the population have it - the 'everyone knows a family, where one person has died of Covid _every year_' case (four grandparents, eight parents, eight kids, with eight partners, ...) is in play.

edit: Here as a discussion amongst mathematically minded people. 
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia....that-someone-you-know-will-die-from-covid-19/

edit2: And the 'every year' part (without vaccination) is important. Because usually people you know dont die lets say 'of a carcrash' -- every year.


Also all the values listed in the articles above - are absolute death numbers.  So no Case fatality rate needed.

You cant refute them with 'but case fatality rates - unknown', or 'small'.


edit3: Also Case Fatality Rate in the US is actually estimated to be around 5% for whatever reason.
https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9032/8/3/330/pdf

Dont know why. No healthcare system worth the name? Overestimation?

edit4: The first one rather, and hospitals being overwhelmed:
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

There is a moral problem with incentivizing hospitals to pump their numbers.


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> Thats not the point you give up at. You find a region in your country thats roughly statistically representative of your entire country (on average), and you test the entire population. Then you end up at case fatality rates of about 0.375% (you never end up at 0.1% (fake news?)) but as explained before - that means - if 70% of the population have it - the 'everyone knows a family, where one person has died of Covid _every year_' case (four grandparents, eight parents, eight kids, with eight partners, ...) is in play.
> 
> edit: Here as a discussion amongst mathematically minded people.
> https://statmodeling.stat.columbia....that-someone-you-know-will-die-from-covid-19/
> ...


So lets do that calculation again at a Case Fatality Rate of 5%. Which apparently is the going rate in the US.

Family: 4 grandparents, 8 parents, 8 children + 8 partners = 28
28 - 30% (because lets say 70% of people in your country get it (not currently, but in the free spread horror scenario) every year, some with no symptoms) = 20

20*5% case fatality rate = 1

So what follows is: Dont let it spread to 70% of the population. Easier and cheaper than to lower the CFR rate to the rest of the civilized world, when not overwhelmed (hospitals operational) of about 0.4-1% - by building hospitals, paying for payed sick leave, and healthcare for everyone (problem with pandemics is - you cant combat it in just 10% of your population, when 70% of them have it).
---------------------------

edit2: Just remembered the obvious. Those CFR percentages usually originate from 'number of known infected people/number of known deaths'. As you dont test the entire population - number of 'actual' infections is MUCH higher. (Vs. known deaths.)

Which is why you select a 'statistically representative region' in your country - and test EVERYONE. That way you end up at an actual CFR of probably closer to 0.375%.

So closer to 'at 70% infection rate' 'everyone knows a person who has died from it every year' rather than - 'every family has one death'.

The calculation above should basically be invalid. What 'real' CFR for the US is - I dont know. For germany its around 0.375%. IF hospitals remain fully operational.
-------------------------------


edit: True CFR for the US (as in we tested and entire region, and compared with death figures) for the US is estimated to be 0.5%:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/04/the-true-cfr-of-the-coronavirus-may-be-0-5-or-less/
-------------------------------

20*0.5% = 0.1

So lets say every family knows 10 other families, so you "know" one person that has died from Covid _every year_ - IF 70% of your country get infected. (Which is what you are trying to prevent.)


Next question to ask is: Is there really the possibility that 70% of people get infected within a year, with no measures taken? And this is where population density and 'near exponential' vs 'really exponential' comes in.
At that point, _I_ am stopping my google fu. But you can go on further along those lines, if you want to.
(Earlier problematic point is hospitals becoming overtaxed, at which point even 'real CFR' starts to climb as a percentage).


But "we dont know if its 0.1% or 40%" is simply not true - and grossly misrepresenting reality.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You just admitted that Russian collusion was a myth.



You just admitted to not reading his post.

We were talking about fake registrations of voters and then making absentee ballots in those names. There has been no suggestion that Russia did that.



notimp said:


> edit2: Just remembered the obvious. Those calculations usually originate from 'number of known infected people/number of known deaths'. As you dont test the entire population - number of 'actual' infections is MUCH higher. (Vs. known deaths.)



Known deaths is likely to be closer to the correct figure. Known infections can only be close to symptomatic infections if people actually report it, and not wanting to be proven wrong about your conspiracy theory is a good argument for why you'd try to keep it a secret (some people keep it secret for financial reasons as they want to keep getting paid).

The asymptomatic numbers are the issue, because those people are still able to infect people who then become symptomatic.
And you can become symptomatic more than once, which increases your chances of dying (in one known case the second time was worse).

So without wide spread testing, which people are nervous about because of lost income & conspiracy theories, then you can't know what the risk is going to be. The accuracy of the mass testing methods is also lower than what is possible using the slower lab tests.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 25, 2020)

If you have a twitter account and you're tired of being jailed for wrongthink by our liberal tech overlords. Join parler. That it, thats the whole post.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Now how may of these deaths were counted when heart disease and resporatory disease was the real killer and they just "tested" positive for covid and had a high % chance of dying any fucking way.



Everyone has a 100% chance of dying anyway, its the timing.

I accept that for a small percentage of people their covid infection coincided with their time being up, but I doubt it's statistically significant. If someone is living with heart disease and they die after a covid infection, then the covid infection is the cause.



shamzie said:


> If you have a twitter account and you're tired of being jailed for wrongthink by our liberal tech overlords. Join parler. That it, thats the whole post.



If you have a twitter account and like lies then join parler, the echo chamber for your lies.

https://people.com/human-interest/parler-app-compared-echo-chamber/

It's just a bunch of outraged people daring each other to be more outrageous. Imagine the self harm you can inflict.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Covid is not a statistically significant risk to your health or life.


imagine being such a cringelord that 250k people dying in your country alone isn't enough for you to listen to reason
this guy would be on the titanic shouting that everyone's a pussy, it's just some cold water


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Known deaths is likely to be closer to the correct figure. Known infections can only be close to symptomatic infections if people actually report it, and not wanting to be proven wrong about your conspiracy theory is a good argument for why you'd try to keep it a secret (some people keep it secret for financial reasons as they want to keep getting paid).


I know, and I also followed that - logic wise - in my crude calculation examples.

This is the reason why 'real CFR' falls down to 0.5% from the 'known cases' calculated CFR of 5% in the US.

In the end, only 'real CFR' matters in societal impact statistical modeling.

"Known cases CFR matters for hospitals, and supply calculations" (on part of the state or county).


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 25, 2020)

i can't wait to see the military dragging trump out of the white house  when  he doesn't concede! it's going to make one of the best world headlines to date


----------



## wartutor (Nov 25, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> imagine being such a cringelord that 250k people dying in your country alone isn't enough for you to listen to reason
> this guy would be on the titanic shouting that everyone's a pussy, it's just some cold water


Yes but those numbers are off due to the fact you cant tell how many would of died anyway due to heart disease or from the common flu. Lumping them all under covid fatalaties because they tested positive isnt the correct way to do it. Before this heart disease was the #1 killer in the US with obessity and resporatory high up there (expecially with the elderly that died from pnemonia due to covid and not covid directly. Aka would of died anyway if they caught the flu.)


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

I just made reservations for Thanksgiving Dinner at a top notch restaurant. I'll be just like Newsnom, sitting at a table with no masks surrounded by a bunch of family members. This is exactly how I've been acting since the start of this pandemic and frankly, I probably already had it and didn't know it. I'm not scared of a simply not-so-deadly virus.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> "Known cases CFR matters for hospitals, and supply calculations" (on part of the state or county).



Sure, if people want to keep their infection secret and then die then hospitals don't need to care about them.

I may be wrong, but I don't think asymptomatic covid can cause death as it appears to be the symptoms that kill you. So in terms of hospitals they are less relevant in themselves. But it's possible that you could get an undetected surge in asymptomatic infections which causes a huge demand on hospitals if they mix with people who (for whatever reason) become symptomatic.

I'm sure in the futures someone will try to figure out what makes people symptomatic or asymptomatic.


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Sure, if people want to keep their infection secret and then die then hospitals don't need to care about them.


High percentage of infected are symptomless. But still infectious.

Here:






src: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm

Thats hospitalization rate - not testing rate per agegroup. Testing rate per agegroup is probably higher - but not that much higher. (Depending on agegroup, maybe 10x? (thinking about the younger demographics.)


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Yes but those numbers are off due to the fact you cant tell how many would of died anyway due to heart disease or from the common flu. Lumping them all under covid fatalaties because they tested positive isnt the correct way to do it. Before this heart disease was the #1 killer in the US with obessity and resporatory high up there (expecially with the elderly that died from pnemonia due to covid and not covid directly. Aka would of died anyway if they caught the flu.)



Everyone will die anyway, it's just a matter of what contributes to their death. A large number (but not all) of them have underlying health conditions.

"Lumping" them all under covid fatalities is the correct way to do it.

If someone had been given a week to live and then gets infected, or someone shoots them in the head shortly after a covid infection then I don't think they would be included in the figures. But even if they were then it's a small percentage that is not statistically significant.



notimp said:


> High percentage of infected are symptomless. But still infectious.



Right, but that is a separate group. They aren't keeping it a secret, there is no evidence of their infection.


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Right, but that is a separate group. They aren't keeping it a secret, there is no evidence of their infection.


They dont show up in the 'tested covid cases' statistics, because they dont get tested. (Thats the group I'm talking about.)

They are the reason, that you have high "known cases CFR" and low "real CFR".

Nothing about 'keeping it a secret' (well, not necessarily - I'm not interested in motivation (people that have to work to get income from week to week)), dont need it for the argument.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> They dont show up in the 'tested covid cases' statistics, because they dont get tested. (Thats the group I'm talking about.)



Right, but if you can't know about them then it's not worth worrying about them as you can't plan for a number you don't know.

All you can do is come up with a reasonable worse case prediction of spikes in detected cases & hope you aren't too high or low in your guess.

I would assume that detected and non detected cases go up and down at roughly the same rate. It might not be true, but how would we know?


----------



## g00s3y (Nov 25, 2020)

165 pages of Trump supporters & anti maskers proving just how fucking stupid they are.

It's great.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

g00s3y said:


> 165 pages of Trump supporters & anti maskers proving just how fucking stupid they are.
> 
> It's great.



That depends on your point of view. I found it to be 165 pages of dumb Liberals proving just how stupid they are.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

Anyone want to place bets?


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Right, but if you can't know about them then it's not worth worrying about them as you can't plan for a number you don't know.


No, no, no... 

Here is how statistical sampling works. As a whole. Take 500 people. Make sure they are 'normal in distribution' (according to some criteria (age, income, health, population density..). Ask them questions. Then say "the same would be true for the entire population".

If you do it with 5 people - it doesnt work. If you do it with 500 it kinda does. But you maybe arent that certain. If you do it with 5000 you are pretty certain. (Many issues alongside of 'stuff can change' (predictions are hard), or 'people not telling you stuff openly').
--

But if you only start planning, when the problem is _there_ you are dead, dead - when it comes to a problem that has exponential growth rate.

So you use statistical models.

How reliable they are and how accurate and, .... all valid questions. But you start with preparation in the 'everything is fine' state - 'knowing about the nature of the problem'.

(Virus isnt going to kill more people - just because its monday. If everything impacting death criteria doesnt change much (hospitals stay operational). Virus isn not going to infect less people, if you do nothing.
(Actually it is - because of only near exponential growth (at some point it plateuas), and stuff like herd immunity (but the issue is, that if you get there too quickly, all your hospital infrastructure is going to fail)). )
---

'Exponential' is this hockey stick curve thingy:





That comes as a result of 'on person "converting" tree others" - in a short period of time'.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Everyone has a 100% chance of dying anyway, its the timing.
> 
> I accept that for a small percentage of people their covid infection coincided with their time being up, but I doubt it's statistically significant. If someone is living with heart disease and they die after a covid infection, then the covid infection is the cause.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you're mad you dont get to suppress speech and opposing views with no repercussions anymore. Don't worry, you'll be welcome on Twitter for life, just say women are men and don't forget your pronouns, you'll be verified within a day.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> No, no, no...



I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, you can't include a number you don't know in your statistical model.

You would assume that for every x known cases, there are y unknown cases. What would tend to happen is you run the model and if it's too high or low you tweak y


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, you can't include a number you don't know in your statistical model.


But you can include growth rate. And do projections.

Models are not about 'reality' models are about 'complexity reduced systems'.

So you take a few things about reality you know (f.e. real CFR and rate of spread), and you 'model' what would happen if... (F.e. rate of spread is not reduced.)

You do that because -- give me some time to type..


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Sounds like you're mad you dont get to suppress speech and opposing views with no repercussions anymore. Don't worry, you'll be welcome on Twitter for life, just say women are men and don't forget your pronouns, you'll be verified within a day.



I'm not on twitter.

IMO it's mad to go on social media if all you want is for validation.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> No, no, no...
> 
> Here is how statistical sampling works. As a whole. Take 500 people. Make sure they are 'normal in distribution' (according to some criteria (age, income, health, population density..). Ask them questions. Then say "the same would be true for the entire population".
> 
> ...



It's funny how there's so many new cases and very few deaths. It's almost like the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus isn't that deadly. With that said it's time for me to go out and about, starting with eating breakfast inside of a restaurant. You all can live in fear, but I choose not to.


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> But you can include growth rate. And do projections.



Right, but you'd just base your growth rate on what you know surely?
The higher the unknown cases, the more known cases you should have.
So would you bother trying to work out what the unknown cases were at all?


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> Right, but you'd just base your growth rate on what you know surely?
> The higher the unknown cases, the more known cases you should have.
> So would you bother trying to work out what the unknown cases were at all?


You do not. Give me time to type. 

So the problem is, that you are faced with this:

'Exponential' is this hockey stick curve thingy:





That comes as a result of 'one person "converting" tree others" - in a short period of time'.

And that at one point (== hospitals getting full) you need to get the the downward slope again you also see in that graph (which I did'nt mark)).

Getting to that downward slope FAST, is very costly. (Basically halting your economy.)

Developing strategies, how to get to the downward slope, has to be done - before you reach that point.

Modeling is about giving you a rough Idea, when you reach that point (where drastic measures are necessary (and if)). And what to do then. (Roughly telly you, what what measure would do.)

Mitigation (masks, handwashing) is about, trying to never let the hockeystick appear (not letting one person infect 3 others).

And getting on the downward slope fast is 'in no way free, easy, or a natural given' (at some point it is, because "most of the fuel is burned" - then you plateau, but that can be at case numbers, way too high for certain other societal systems (hospitals, ...)).
--

Watch this movie if you want to see the 'hollywood version' of solving pestilence in the middle ages. 
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2101473/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_39

Hero walzes in the day after the plague hit town. Realizes its fleas on rats that are transmitting the disease, by looking at three dead people. Ben Kingsley and a group of 50 good guys make rat poison. A week later the curve goes down, the city is saved, and its back to power games.. 

In reality - you try to mitigate longterm costs (== you having to do harsh things to get the curve on the downwards slope again), while giving people developing vaccines more time to scale up production (== solve the issue structurally (rat poison in the Ben Kingsley movie..  ).

Models are there to show you "decision packages" at certain 'stages'. You have several ones of those. (And a priest cast (scientists) that presents that to political leaders. Little better than priests, maybe..  ) Who then decide on when to implement what.

if hospitals not overrun yet (or in danger to be). Less harsh measures can still be deployed. (If growth rate is not that exponential (meaning time until caserate doubles, is not three days or some incredibly small amount of time)).


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It's funny how there's so many new cases and very few deaths



Deaths aren't funny.



gregory-samba said:


> It's almost like the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus isn't that deadly



We're talking about covid19, I think that must be something different to what you are talking about. It's got a different name for a start.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Darth Meteos said:


> imagine being such a cringelord that 250k people dying in your country alone isn't enough for you to listen to reason
> this guy would be on the titanic shouting that everyone's a pussy, it's just some cold water




Imagine being worked up about 250K deaths when never in your life have you been worried about the 655K that die every year from drinking shit with granulated sugar.

The inflated kung-flu Wuhan Chinese bioweapon attack kills less than automobile accidents & the suicide your hysteria lock downs are going to lead to.

If life has to stop over 250K deaths, most of which would of happened due to flu, or whatever other health problems they had besides covid start with the cars and drag all these dumb gear heads off the road.

It's not statistically significant and I sincerely don't give a fuck.  Let the 255K be a monument and a reminder to collectivists they better come up with better solutions that don't require my attention or concern because I will gladly risk mine and everyone else's life to oppose anything that _MIGHT_ be a communist plot.


If celebrities start singing songs, or women start making black and white videos with stupid shit written on signs, if it involves a facebook filter, if facebook is going to fact check for posting a meme about it *PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO DIE.*


----------



## smf (Nov 25, 2020)

notimp said:


> Models are there to show you "decision packages" at certain 'stages'. You have several ones of those. (And a priest cast (scientists) that presents that to political leaders. Little better than priests, maybe..  ) Who then decide on when to implement what.



Right, I kinda feel like you're arguing with me & I can't see anything in there that I disagree with.



jimbo13 said:


> Imagine being worked up about 250K deaths when never in your life have you been worried about the 655K that die every year from drinking shit with granulated sugar.



I gave up processed sugar years ago, it's your choice whether you consume it or not. I don't preach about it, it's their own choice.

But I can't give up covid.



jimbo13 said:


> The inflated kung-flu Wuhan Chinese bioweapon attack kills less than automobile accidents & the suicide your hysteria lock downs are going to lead to.



If you call covid 19 "inflated kung-flu Wuhan Chinese bioweapon attack" then it would seem to me that you are the one suffering from hysteria.

Do you have suicide figures for this year and previous years?

There has been multiple occasions where outrage against car manufacturers has forced them to make safer cars. There was a time when they argued that making safe cars was too high a cost for the number of people who died. That didn't work out too well for them.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> But I can't give up covid.



Nothing is making you get within transmission distance of another human being.


----------



## notimp (Nov 25, 2020)

Oh, btw graph above is not the US its austria:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/

US graph looks like this:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

Third wave, and not that exponential (yet). (Edit: Well, actually...  )

And I'm still waiting for about two weeks for the curves to fall in line to be able to refute the 'but deaths are so low now' argument also.  (More convincingly. With an Ahhh factor, because its easy to see it ...) Deaths lag by 3-4 weeks.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

Can we get back on topic?  Developments have been happening in relationship to the claim that "Joe Biden Wins". Did he?  Seems like the Covid thing is just a distraction from what truly matters--and it's that everyone is wrong.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Can we get back on topic?  Developments have been happening in relationship to the claim that "Joe Biden Wins".


Well said tabzer.

Here is the latest news.

*China finally congratulates Biden on election win as president ‘considers pardoning Flynn’*


*China has congratulated Joe Biden on his election victory over Donald Trump. Xi Jinping was reported as saying he hoped Beijing and Washington could develop a healthy and stable bilateral relationship.*

*Meanwhile, Mr Trump is planning to pardon Michael Flynn his disgraced former national security adviser who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI during the Russian meddling investigation, as one of the final acts of his presidency, according to a report.*



*Reuters cited an unnamed source in reporting the plan, which was first reported by Axios. Other pardons may also be in the works.*

*Overnight, Mr Trump also appears to have been active on Twitter at about midnight, issuing a string of retweets. One attacked a Fox News reporter by name for suggesting Rudy Giuliani, the president’s lawyer, had no evidence to support his election fraud claims; another boosted a lawsuit apparently planned by Sidney Powell, who was dismissed from Mr Trump’s legal team earlier this week.*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

That's one angle to perceive things.  Have you considered this angle?



tabzer said:


>




I'm interested in what kind of ante you'd like to wager.


----------



## wartutor (Nov 25, 2020)

Let these liberals keep pushing and pushing sooner or later something will break and im sure it wont be the gun toting hard ass's that dont give a fuck. Then the pansy ass liberals can march and "protest" to their end.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's one angle to perceive things.  Have you considered this angle?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested in what kind of ante you'd like to wager.


Leigh Dundas is a anti-vaxer
...
I would ask you to reconsider your video choice. Do some research on the people you are linking or video's talking about people.



anti vax is not a valid position, you fail to vax you hurt others. The only excuse for not having a known tested vaccine is if you have some immune system disorder, which is exceptionally rare.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Those policies will not be implemented here, and even if they were no one would follow them and if the Democrats think they are going to use military and occupy a American state good luck with that.


Oh so you live in Alabama or some other state Republicans have turned into a desolate shithole over the years.  Yeah never mind, you don't need any restrictions, we'll just take down all the pieces of Trump's wall and put it back up around you instead.  Mark it the, "Plague and Incest Zone."  Or, "The Hills Have Eyes Zone."


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Oh so you live in Alabama or some other state Republicans have turned into a desolate shithole over the years.  Yeah never mind, you don't need any restrictions, we'll just take down all the pieces of Trump's wall and put it back up around you instead.  Mark it the, "Plague and Incest Zone."  Or, "The Hills Have Eyes Zone."


Alabama has a statewide mask mandate. That's why I'm here.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alabama has a statewide mask mandate. That's why I'm here.


That's why it cracks me up every time he says, "they'll never implement restrictions HERE."  If even Alabama is following the guidelines, then at this point everybody is following them.  So either we keep the case count low, and masks will be the worst we have to deal with, or we go back to more restrictive lockdowns.  There is no third option until the vaccine gets widely distributed, because Biden knows he wasn't elected to sit on his hands or play golf like Trump.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> That's why it cracks me up every time he says, "they'll never implement restrictions HERE."  If even Alabama is following the guidelines, then at this point everybody is following them.  So either we keep the case count low, and masks will be the worst we have to deal with, or we go back to more restrictive lockdowns.  There is no third option until the vaccine gets widely distributed, because Biden knows he wasn't elected to sit on his hands or play golf like Trump.


There is a third option: throwing caution to the wind and living a normal life.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> There is a third option: throwing caution to the wind and living a normal life.


Tried that, Trump killed 250,000 Americans in the process.  If Biden ever needs advice on how to kill another quarter of a million at a record-breaking pace, he's got your party's number, I'm sure he'll call.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Tried that, Trump killed 250,000 Americans in the process.  If Biden ever needs advice on how to kill another quarter of a million at a record-breaking pace, he's got your party's number, I'm sure he'll call.


There are more important things than life.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> There are more important things than life.


Lol what?  How are we supposed to know what is or isn't important after death?  For all we know it's just eternal nothingness.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."  It's literally the first word lmao.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Lol what?  How are we supposed to know what is or isn't important after death?  For all we know it's just eternal nothingness.
> 
> "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."  It's literally the first word lmao.


*Life* would be a whole lot better with the *liberty* not to wear a mask outside. I'd be very *happy* about that.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> *Life* would be a whole lot better with the *liberty* not to wear a mask outside. I'd be very *happy* about that.


And the CP that there wanted to defend


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

djpannda said:


> And the CP that there wanted to defend


I was delusional. I couldn't think of a way to put my actual argument into words, so I just followed the other guy. I'm an idiot, I know.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 25, 2020)

The idea of "a "thing" didn't affect me, so it must not be serious" is silly and dangerous.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 25, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> The idea of "a "thing" didn't affect me, so it must not be serious" is silly and dangerous.


Just wait for it when they get affected and realise their mistake.

Hopefully most people learn from their mistakes.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> Just wait for it when they get affected and realise their mistake.
> 
> Hopefully most people learn from their mistakes.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I was delusional. I couldn't think of a way to put my actual argument into words, so I just followed the other guy. I'm an idiot, I know.



Following others? So much for thinking for yourself. WAKE UP SHEEPLE.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)




----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 235379


People ARE getting the flu, and getting COVID plus the flu simultaneously increases your chances of death exponentially.  This is particularly nonsensical even for a Facebook boomer meme.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> People ARE getting the flu, and getting COVID plus the flu simultaneously increases your chances of death exponentially.  This is particularly nonsensical even for a Facebook boomer meme.


On top of this the places where the flu infections are happening and covid infections could be completely different areas of the US. 

It kinda shows that they are only thinking of whatever they see 2 inches away from their face and not actually looking at broader pictures. 

Though that meme is also from the same person that brought us "Covid Procedures are actually communism in disguise" and "Mask mandates are about control and permanently taking away rights in a globalist conspiracy, despite other countries ending when cases were extremely low or at 0" .


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> On top of this the places where the flu infections are happening and covid infections could be completely different areas of the US.
> 
> It kinda shows that they are only thinking of whatever they see 2 inches away from their face and not actually looking at broader pictures.
> 
> Though that meme is also from the same person that brought us "Covid Procedures are actually communism in disguise" and "Mask mandates are about control and permanently taking away rights in a globalist conspiracy, despite other countries ending when cases were extremely low or at 0" .


To me, it's about deaths, not cases. Most cases are asymptomatic.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

smf said:


> We're talking about covid19, I think that must be something different to what you are talking about. It's got a different name for a start.



Nope, we're talking about the same thing. Just because you bought into the pro-China bullshit doesn't mean I'm going to. The COVID-19 virus originated in Wuhan, China and the Chinese Government hid it from the world while it silently spread. The media for months called it the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus, but changed what they called it for China's benefit. This is while China started a campaign for their citizens that claims to this day that the USA caused the corona virus. China is the bad guy here so I won't stop referring to the virus by its original name.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> That's why it cracks me up every time he says, "they'll never implement restrictions HERE."  If even Alabama is following the guidelines, then at this point everybody is following them.  So either we keep the case count low, and masks will be the worst we have to deal with, or we go back to more restrictive lockdowns.  There is no third option until the vaccine gets widely distributed, because Biden knows he wasn't elected to sit on his hands or play golf like Trump.



The guidelines, rules and shut downs failed to stop the spread of the virus. Key word: FAILED. The Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus (COVID-19) is here to stay. Our containment efforts FAILED. We're just lucky it's not a very deadly virus.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> pro-China





gregory-samba said:


> Wuhan, China





gregory-samba said:


> Chinese Government





gregory-samba said:


> Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus





gregory-samba said:


> China's benefit





gregory-samba said:


> China started





gregory-samba said:


> China is the bad guy here





gregory-samba said:


> Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus



Jesus fucking christ dude you sound like a broken record


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Jesus fucking christ dude you sound like a broken record



I'm going to keep on repeating myself too. China is the bad guy in this situation. Right now the CCP is running a smear campaign against the USA that tells their citizens that the USA started the virus. You seem to have a problem with me pointing out the COVID-19's origins, yet have no problem with the country that it started in. The same country that hid the virus from the world. Why is that?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Right now the CCP is running a smear campaign against the USA that tells their citizens that the USA started the virus.



Source? Because I haven't heard this before and I'm not easily finding anything that backs that up.



gregory-samba said:


> You seem to have a problem with me pointing out the COVID-19's origins, yet have no problem with the country that it started in. The same country that hid the virus from the world. Why is that?



My daily focus is survival. Your daily focus is retribution.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> My daily focus is survival.


You're afraid to live and afraid to die. What a way to exist.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You're afraid to live and afraid to die. What a way to exist.



See, you could have just said that without posting a lame-ass attempt at a meme. Which, by the way, image-only posts are against the rules. Stop doing that. https://gbatemp.net/help/terms

Also - lol, no. Try harder you goober.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> See, you could have just said that without posting a lame-ass attempt at a meme. Which, by the way, image-only posts are against the rules. Stop doing that. https://gbatemp.net/help/terms
> 
> Also - lol, no. Try harder you goober.



Xzi and LumInvader have been littering this entire thread with images yet theirs don't get deleted.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus .



So do you call other deadly viruses by there place of origin? I bet you don't 

Are you saying African Aids? 
Are you saying West African Ebola
Are you saying English vCJD
Are you saying German Marburg
Are you saying American Hantaviruses
Ect ect

Sorry but you calling Corona Virus what you are calling it looks rather xenophobic.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Xzi and LumInvader have been littering this entire thread with images yet theirs don't get deleted.



Have you reported them?


----------



## GABO1423 (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> To me, it's about deaths, not cases. *Most cases are asymptomatic.*


Which is why you wear a damn mask and social distance to stop the spread of a virus that can be extremely deadly. In just the short time we have been in this pandemic, COVID has taken the lives of almost 1.5 million people worldwide. Families have been separated, people have been forced into poverty, and more cases are on the rise. Vaccines are thankfully seeing progress, but we still have to get to that point and COVID is not going to change in the meantime.

I have seen the same tired argument of how it can somehow be a violation to your freedom to wear mask, how? It is literally an effective practice that has a precedent of effectiveness and most importantly, NOT VIOLATING ANY FREEDOMS WHATSOEVER. What is so hard to grasp about this? This kind of shit is why COVID got to this point in the first place. More asymptomatic cases actually makes COVID worse than the regular flu since you don't even know if you have it and can expose it to people at high risk without even knowing it. Not to mention, just because you have no symptoms does not mean that COVID does not cause you damage. (Sources: here, here, here)
Making matters worse is that this is very inconsistent and we have no pattern at all. So we do not know anything until we are tested.
And what does it matter if your family agrees with your ass backwards views? All it does is give me the impression that they are just as ignorant as you are regarding this virus. But I know you will carry on being you, so I would love to see you go outside maskless, not socially distancing, and generally acting careless and eventually catch the virus yourself. Seems that at this point, that's the only thing that will make you realize that this virus is no joke. And don't even get started with the "then just stay at home" bullshit. People cannot stay at home forever, they have to go outside to work to make income, they have to go to buy vital resources. And not everyone is lucky enough to be able to live a sustainable life without going outside the comfort of their homes. Not to mention, what about people who do not even have a home in the first place? They are even more vulnerable and don't have a home to stay on.



gregory-samba said:


> The guidelines, rules and shut downs failed to stop the spread of the virus. Key word: FAILED. The Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus (COVID-19) is here to stay. Our containment efforts FAILED. We're just lucky it's not a very deadly virus.


Probably because the administration was more focused on downplaying the virus instead of taking action? Probably because people had to just politicize and make a big fuss about basic health regulations? Probably because we have people like UltraSUPRA refusing to wear a mask because of asinine reasons? Probably because people like you are still not taking this seriously by calling this virus "not very deadly"? There is a very simple reason why the U.S. has almost 13 million cases and 261 thousand deaths. It is simply because of incompetency from everyone. Government to common folks, the U.S. was clearly not ready to deal with this virus and it shows.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The guidelines, rules and shut downs failed to stop the spread of the virus. Key word: FAILED.


Because your favorite cult leader was undermining them at every turn.  Trump failed to stop or even slow the spread of the virus, and that's why he was given the boot.  Key word: FAILED.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Source? Because I haven't heard this before and I'm not easily finding anything that backs that up.



Sure, there's hundreds of articles related to the topic, but here's one that helps convey what the CCP is doing and why I'm calling it the original name it was given.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/false-claims-sources-coronavirus-spat-us-china/story?id=69580990



> My daily focus is survival. Your daily focus is retribution.



Survival? You mean wearing a cloth over your face, hiding in your residence and sometimes having to stand in line in the grocery store. That sounds like it's really tough and horrible, not. 

The only time I wear a mask is when I'm in an establishment that requires you wear one and while some shops closing has altered my routine I've made up for it by just going to the stores and restaurants that are still open in place of the ones I used to frequent. As we're not living under socialist rule you're allowed to be scared and hide from the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus, but I'm not going to. Never have and probably never will.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Have you reported them?


He failed to mention that all my posts with images have at least a sentence or two to go with them.  No image-only posts.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

GABO1423 said:


> Which is why you wear a damn mask and social distance to stop the spread of a virus that can be extremely deadly. In just the short time we have been in this pandemic, COVID has taken the lives of almost 1.5 million people worldwide. Families have been separated, people have been forced into poverty, and more cases are on the rise. Vaccines are thankfully seeing progress, but we still have to get to that point and COVID is not going to change in the meantime.
> 
> I have seen the same tired argument of how it can somehow be a violation to your freedom to wear mask, how? It is literally an effective practice that has a precedent of effectiveness and most importantly, NOT VIOLATING ANY FREEDOMS WHATSOEVER. What is so hard to grasp about this? This kind of shit is why COVID got to this point in the first place. More asymptomatic cases actually makes COVID worse than the regular flu since you don't even know if you have it and can expose it to people at high risk without even knowing it. Not to mention, just because you have no symptoms does not mean that COVID does not cause you damage. (Sources: here, here, here)
> Making matters worse is that this is very inconsistent and we have no pattern at all. So we do not know anything until we are tested.
> And what does it matter if your family agrees with your ass backwards views? All it does is give me the impression that they are just as ignorant as you are regarding this virus. But I know you will carry on being you, so I would love to see you go outside maskless, not socially distancing, and generally acting careless and eventually catch the virus yourself. Seems that at this point, that's the only thing that will make you realize that this virus is no joke. And don't even get started with the "then just stay at home" bullshit. People cannot stay at home forever, they have to go outside to work to make income, they have to go to buy vital resources. And not everyone is lucky enough to be able to live a sustainable life without going outside the comfort of their homes. Not to mention, what about people who do not even have a home in the first place? They are even more vulnerable and don't have a home to stay on.



You're free to be afraid of something that's so deadly you didn't even know you had it without a test, but I'm not going to be.



			
				GABO1423 said:
			
		

> Probably because the administration was more focused on downplaying the virus instead of taking action? Probably because people had to just politicize and make a big fuss about basic health regulations? Probably because we have people like UltraSUPRA refusing to wear a mask because of asinine reasons? Probably because people like you are still not taking this seriously by calling this virus "not very deadly"? There is a very simple reason why the U.S. has almost 13 million cases and 261 thousand deaths. It is simply because of incompetency from everyone. Government to common folks, the U.S. was clearly not ready to deal with this virus and it shows.



The USA response wasn't optimal, but neither was any other countries in the world. If China wouldn't have hid to fact it was spreading in Wuhan then maybe less people would have died. I know that people like to blame Trump for their local governments response, but during the months of Dec 2020 and Jan 2020 while Trump was acting all the Democrats/Liberals did was called him a racist xenophone, were having their impeachment trials and downplayed the virus. I'm not sure about you, but I find someone responding to the situation better than someone not responding at all.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 25, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Leigh Dundas is a anti-vaxer
> ...
> I would ask you to reconsider your video choice. Do some research on the people you are linking or video's talking about people.
> 
> ...



Lol.  Did anyone say anything about about anti-vaxing?  Character assassination doesn't change what is presented in the video.  I'm entertaining bets.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Because your favorite cult leader was undermining them at every turn.  Trump failed to stop or even slow the spread of the virus, and that's why he was given the boot.  Key word: FAILED.



What was your side doing initially when Trump was fighting the virus? Oh yeah, trying to impeach Trump while downplaying and ignoring the threat.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> Have you reported them?



Yes, my reports go ignored. You've also erased my post here with swear words in it, but then allow the opposite side of the political spectrum to say the same things I was saying against my side. @Xzi tries to justify posting MEME's because they contain a little bit of text in them, but @UltraSUPRA 's MEMEs also sometimes contain text and they are deleted.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Sure, there's hundreds of articles related to the topic, but here's one that helps convey what the CCP is doing and why I'm calling it the original name it was given.
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/false-claims-sources-coronavirus-spat-us-china/story?id=69580990



Do you have something that's a little more... relevant? Because that article is from March 13th, and you said "Right now the CCP is running a smear campaign against the USA that tells their citizens that the USA started the virus." I'd assume if this was something that was still happening "right now" there'd be some coverage of it, even if from hyper-partisan right-wing sources.



gregory-samba said:


> Survival? You mean wearing a cloth over your face, hiding in your residence and sometimes having to stand in line in the grocery store. That sounds like it's really tough and horrible, not.



"Survival" can extend beyond "trying not to die". It can also involve things like ensuring I have a roof over my head. Figuring out what to cook for dinner. Making sure that the needs of myself and my friends and family are accounted for. Also worth noting is that you haven't refuted my claim that your focus is retribution.



gregory-samba said:


> What was your side doing initially when Trump was fighting the virus? Oh yeah, trying to impeach Trump while downplaying and ignoring the threat.



Maybe if he has such a one-track mind that he can only focus on literally one single thing at a time, he might not be fit to lead a country.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> So do you call other deadly viruses by there place of origin? I bet you don't
> 
> Are you saying African Aids?
> Are you saying West African Ebola
> ...



The thing is I didn't name the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus. It was named that originally and called that for months. It wasn't until the CCP started their smear campaign that the media was forced to call it something else. Of course, the Liberals eat up the fake bullshit coming from the leftist media so they played along with China's game. I'm not going to. I'm going to call the virus by its original name and keep pointing out that it originated in Wuhan, China.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> It was named that originally and called that for months. It wasn't until the CCP started their smear campaign that the media was forced to call it something else.



Source?


----------



## djpannda (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> What was your side doing initially when Trump was fighting the virus? Oh yeah, trying to impeach Trump while downplaying and ignoring the threat.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Ok so we have admitted that Joe Biden has won and now we are diverting to mask ... but we conservative need to make the world more a shittier dangerous place.. either Trump or mask?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> The thing is I didn't name the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus. It was named that originally and called that for months. It wasn't until the CCP started their smear campaign that the media was forced to call it something else. Of course, the Liberals eat up the fake bullshit coming from the leftist media so they played along with China's game. I'm not going to. I'm going to call the virus by its original name and keep pointing out that it originated in Wuhan, China.


Lol you are pure garbage..


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Yes, my reports go ignored.



Full transparency - you've reported a total of four posts from those two users. One of which was removed as a violation of the image-only post rule. The others were not found to be in violation of that rule. This is not some large-scale targeted plot to ignore your reports.

Edit 2 - Also full transparency, none of said reports were handled by me. And since I'm probably the most active staffer in this thread, I generally try not to moderate things in this thread as an effort to remove any of my own bias from my moderation decisions. But if I see something that is right in front of my eyes while I'm in this thread, and it is a blatant violation of the rules, I am going to handle it as is appropriate.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Do you have something that's a little more... relevant? Because that article is from March 13th, and you said "Right now the CCP is running a smear campaign against the USA that tells their citizens that the USA started the virus." I'd assume if this was something that was still happening "right now" there'd be some coverage of it, even if from hyper-partisan right-wing sources.



Since for whatever reason you can't figure out how to work a search engine here's some more results.

https://bgr.com/2020/11/17/coronavirus-origin-story-chinas-frozen-food-wuhan-theory/

https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...hip-with-us-allies-report/article33130675.ece

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ust-internationally-over-coronavirus-handling

https://bitterwinter.org/coronavirus-a-chronology/

https://www.cnsnews.com/index.php/a...ey-suggests-china-losing-pr-battle-over-virus

Now it's your turn to try to come up with reasons to discredit the sources like you originally did with my first link. I actually find it a waste of time to give your side any sources because all you do is bitch and moan about them because they happen to be on sites your side doesn't allow you to read.

Maybe your search results are being customized based on your poltiical perfernece and there is polictal bias in the major search engines, but I found hundreds of links relating to what China has been doing. March was just a few months ago and China hasn't stopped claiming the USA started the virus.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> Full transparency - you've reported a total of four posts from those two users. One of which was removed as a violation of the image-only post rule. The others were not found to be in violation of that rule. This is not some large-scale targeted plot to ignore your reports.
> 
> Edit 2 - Also full transparency, none of said reports were handled by me. And since I'm probably the most active staffer in this thread, I generally try not to moderate things in this thread as an effort to remove any of my own bias from my moderation decisions. But if I see something that is right in front of my eyes while I'm in this thread, and it is a blatant violation of the rules, I am going to handle it as is appropriate.



Okay, full transparency, I believe I also reported other users for ignoring the no meme rule. The thing is, @Xzi's and @LumInvaders's memes don't get deleted and @UltraSUPRA's do. That's the entire reason I reported the images, which happen to be memes in the first place.


----------



## GABO1423 (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You're free to be afraid of something that's so deadly you didn't even know you had it without a test, but I'm not going to be.



Seems you overlooked the fact that even asymptomatic COVID cases can in some cases cause damage to the patient. And while the damage may not kill you, it sure as hell leaves you vulnerable to die of other diseases in the long run.



gregory-samba said:


> The USA response wasn't optimal, but neither was any other countries in the world. If China wouldn't have hid to fact it was spreading in Wuhan then maybe less people would have died. I know that people like to blame Trump for their local governments response, but during the months of Dec 2020 and Jan 2020 while Trump was acting all the Democrats/Liberals did was called him a racist xenophone, were having their impeachment trials and downplayed the virus. I'm not sure about you, but I find someone responding to the situation better than someone not responding at all.


I could care less about your partisan rhetoric. When I said that this is due to incompetency from everyone, I really meant everyone. Left, right, middle, whatever. The fact of the matter is that Donald Trump has constantly downplayed the virus publicly and best of all, caught the virus himself. Not to mention host mega rallies that even contributed to the spread of COVID in the U.S. It is also true that (at least now) the Democratic party has argued to follow the science and guidelines established by organizations such as the CDC. And while I do not disagree with you in regards to the Chinese government's typical practices of secrecy and lack of transparency and how that affected the outcome of the pandemic, it does not matter that much at the end of the day. Since even then, there does exist examples of countries that have handled the pandemic efficiently. Look at New Zealand for instance, only 2,039 cases and 25 deaths. And no, it has nothing to do with population. How come Indonesia has fewer cases than Brazil? There are more people in Indonesia than in Brazil and yet Brazil has 6 million cases to Indonesia's 512K cases. It is about being efficient, and the U.S. has failed at this.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Full transparency - you've reported a total of four posts from those two users. One of which was removed as a violation of the image-only post rule. The others were not found to be in violation of that rule. This is not some large-scale targeted plot to ignore your reports.
> 
> Edit 2 - Also full transparency, none of said reports were handled by me. And since I'm probably the most active staffer in this thread, I generally try not to moderate things in this thread as an effort to remove any of my own bias from my moderation decisions. But if I see something that is right in front of my eyes while I'm in this thread, and it is a blatant violation of the rules, I am going to handle it as is appropriate.



@gregory-samba @UltraSUPRA @CORE @morvoran @wartutor

Everyone right of Stalin in this thread has witnessed you mod conservatives, while a progressive is doing the exact same thing on the same page.

We all just know to avoid this thread while your active and you aren't enough of a adult to debate without being at risk of being modded for things everyone else is doing in this.

And I don't just blindly bitch about modding, I ate a suspension from @VinsCool I lost my temper and had i was being a bigger dick than usual and had it coming. You however are sitting here using the mod button to troll.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Also worth noting is that you haven't refuted my claim that your focus is retribution.



My focus is simply living life and not allowing stupid people to get me down. That includes going out every single day to some establishment, exercising, eating right, making sure I show up for my job. For me, not much has changed since the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus started. I was following the story in late November 2020 and watched it unfold. I follow the mask mandates in places I go to and I wash my hands, but people aren't dropping like flies around me. This sickness, it infects more people than the flu and there's no vaccine, but even so it's still not that deadly. 

Our original 2 week shut down to "flatten the curve" failed, our long term 10 month approach failed, wearing masks and social distancing also failed at containing the virus. I'm not going to hide in my house just because a virus that's not even that deadly is being spread around. If I was afraid of germs I'd be a shut in that never leaves my house. I just find living in fear to be pointless and detrimental to ones health.

I'm not going to let a bunch of scared or power hungry people get to me over some simple virus. You see, telling me what I have to think or what I can or cannot do doesn't go over well regardless of who is trying to manipulate and control me. Right now that would be liberals, their liberal social media and liberal main stream media. I'm not weak, you're not going to be able to manipulate me. If I give you the impression I'm being manipulated then I am giving that impression for a reason and that reason doesn't include actually being manipulated.

I choose freedom over fear.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> @gregory-samba @UltraSUPRA @CORE @morvoran @wartutor
> 
> Everyone right of Stalin in this thread has witnessed you mod conservatives, while a progressive is doing the exact same thing on the same page.
> 
> ...


You mean calling everyone a leftist, commie, retarded, liberal, basement-dwelling, dyed-hair SJW while grouping up everyone into some political party you don't like that doesn't agree with isn't your natural temperament?

Because you have been doing that since this topic started and have only gotten worse about it as the topic goes on.


----------



## GhostLatte (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> My focus is simply living life and not allowing stupid people to get me down. That includes going out every single day to some establishment, exercising, eating right, making sure I show up for my job. For me, not much has changed since the Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus started. I was following the story in late November 2020 and watched it unfold. I follow the mask mandates in places I go to and I wash my hands, but people aren't dropping like flies around me. This sickness, it infects more people than the flu and there's no vaccine, but even so it's still not that deadly.
> 
> Our original 2 week shut down to "flatten the curve" failed, our long term 10 month approach failed, wearing masks and social distancing also failed at containing the virus. I'm not going to hide in my house just because a virus that's not even that deadly is being spread around. If I was afraid of germs I'd be a shut in that never leaves my house. I just find living in fear to be pointless and detrimental to ones health.
> 
> ...


The coronavirus also has the freedom to enter your body. I mean it's natural selection at this point.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 25, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> You mean calling everyone a leftist, commie, retarded, liberal, basement-dwelling, dyed-hair SJW while grouping up everyone into some political party you don't like that doesn't agree with isn't your natural temperament?
> 
> Because you have been doing that since this topic started and have only gotten worse about it as the topic goes on.


Alright, let's see here...racist, sexist, misogynist, fascist, Nazi, islamophobic, anti-semitic, bigoted...I could go on.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Since for whatever reason you can't figure out how to work a search engine here's some more results.



Like I said, I did look, and didn't find anything readily available. The burden of proof is on whoever is making the claims to back them up, which is you. This is gradeschool level shit, dude.



gregory-samba said:


> https://bgr.com/2020/11/17/coronavirus-origin-story-chinas-frozen-food-wuhan-theory/


^
Only mentions that China was making that claim "at one point". In fact the article says their blame has now shifted to Europe instead, and even notes that that "wouldn’t be impossible, but it just sounds like a massive stretch of the imagination."



gregory-samba said:


> https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...hip-with-us-allies-report/article33130675.ece


^
This article has no mention of this claim whatsoever. You're just picking random bullshit that you find in a search as well.



gregory-samba said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ust-internationally-over-coronavirus-handling


^
"only 52% of respondents in China believe that coronavirus was first detected in the country and just over one in 10 (12%) of respondents in China said they did not know when asked in which country the virus was first detected. Just under a third of these respondents believe the virus was first detected in the US."

This is taken from a poll of the Chinese people (allegedly), not a smear campaign by the CCP. Again, not really relevant.



gregory-samba said:


> https://bitterwinter.org/coronavirus-a-chronology/


^
Article only states the original claim back from March, and makes another claim from later March that officials were then saying it came from Italy instead. Not relevant.



gregory-samba said:


> https://www.cnsnews.com/index.php/a...ey-suggests-china-losing-pr-battle-over-virus


^
Also references the poll mentioned in The Guardian's article. Also makes no claim that the CCP is currently running a smear campaign.

Dude I just read through 5 articles that you big-brain tried to link to prove your point and not a single one managed to do so. What an absolute hilarious fail. You don't even read the shit you're trying to peddle. What a fucking joke.



gregory-samba said:


> Now it's your turn to try to come up with reasons to discredit the sources like you originally did with my first link. I actually find it a waste of time to give your side any sources because all you do is bitch and moan about them because they happen to be on sites your side doesn't allow you to read.



I actually read the articles I share, and apparently you don't.



gregory-samba said:


> Maybe your search results are being customized based on your poltiical perfernece and there is polictal bias in the major search engines, but I found hundreds of links relating to what China has been doing. March was just a few months ago and China hasn't stopped claiming the USA started the virus.



Maybe, but the vast majority of my news comes from sources that are generally considered centrist/unbiased or right-leaning but still generally accepted as trustworthy. I make no effort to hide that from my search engines, so I don't really think that's the case.

March was 8 months ago. That's not just "a few", that's the beginning of the year, a month or so into the US response to the pandemic.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 25, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> You mean calling everyone a leftist, commie, retarded, liberal, basement-dwelling, dyed-hair SJW while grouping up everyone into some political party you don't like that doesn't agree with isn't your natural temperament?
> 
> Because you have been doing that since this topic started and have only gotten worse about it as the topic goes on.



No that is my natural temperament, and if you want to pretend the contrast from the left isn't being slung out there as well that's your prerogative.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No that is my natural temperament, and if you want to pretend the contrast from the left is being slung out there as well that's prerogative.



Well, friendly reminder:

*Flaming, Trolling & Harassment*

Do not "flame", "bash", "troll" or harass others. Blatantly offensive comments or actions directed at others will not be tolerated. While we do allow members to debate and voice their own opinions, there will be a limit to how far a heated debate can go before it is closed by staff. If you harass someone you will be disciplined. Period.

Please show respect for all members at GBAtemp; new or old. Disparaging remarks towards others about race, gender, origin, handicap, age, sexual orientation, personal politics and religion will NOT be tolerated and will most likely be removed by staff. The poster will then be warned, suspended or banned (see the Warnings section below for more information on warnings).

https://gbatemp.net/help/terms



gregory-samba said:


> I found hundreds of links relating to what China has been doing



Actually I want to touch on this again now that I read all 5 of your sources that don't even back up your claims lol. I can find 31 million links relating to what China has been doing, that doesn't mean that a single one of those 31 million links have anything to do with a specific subject. You know, "Since for whatever reason you can't figure out how to work a search engine", that's a pro tip for you.


----------



## VinsCool (Nov 25, 2020)

There is some really bad mentality right there in this thread.

"I am not scared, I am not affected, therefore I don't care about common sense and I am only concerned by my own comfort, regardless of the consequences."

This is what it really means.

And it is alarming how many people are so careless and egoist.
It gets really ugly when a majority just don't care about everyone else's health.

Imagine how difficult it is to follow some really simple instructions (that I admit are annoying as hell, but necessary) just because you don't like them.
Sure I also dislike safety measures, but I know they aren't for "me" only, but for anyone else by my side who may be vulnerable, and these people may include the ones I care about.

If a person just doesn't give a shit, they are free to be, but anyone else is also free to point out the problem, and this is where we are now after nearly a year later.

Sometimes it's just impossible to change stubborn people, but who am I to judge, I chose to be "scared" and "being under socialist rule" because I know cooperation is the most effective way to get things done.

At the end of the day, those who chose to ignore the problem will face the consequences one day or another, and I don't mean just getting yelled at for being selfish at the grocery store.


What I am trying to say is that a government taking action and people cooperating to efforts to keep the virus from spreading simply cannot happen if too many people pretend there is no problem.

It gets even more concerning when the people in power also all say it's a hoax, until they finally catch it themselves, and then finally take action, or pretend they are just to not lose their popularity.

Doesn't that sound incredibly familiar?

That being said, natural selection will hopefully take care of the problem, it's only unfortunate that innocents are being pulled onto someone else's actions.

I am hopeful a vaccine will finally eradicate the worst of the pandemic so the consequences of having free will won't cause more collateral damages.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 25, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Alright, let's see here...racist, sexist, misogynist, fascist, Nazi, islamophobic, anti-semitic, bigoted...I could go on.



Half of the people that he called the names above and group together didn't even type any of those words whatsoever. Then again you post lies here all the time so not really surprising that you would post more now.



jimbo13 said:


> No that is my natural temperament



So let me get this straight, you complain about people not "discussing things like adults", but yet when the argument/discussion isn't going your way it's perfectly fine for you throw out personal attacks, insults, and group them together right?

It astounds me how you honestly can't see why you, and all the others that have been using the same personal attacks and insults, are getting banned.

It's not because you're conservative, it's because you show zero respect to other forums members and, at times, it seems like you do it purposefully to get a rise out of others.

If you want people to actually discuss things like adults and intellectuals, then try actually acting like an adult and intellectual first instead of like a child throwing a tantrum on the playground because you got in trouble with teachers for not behaving.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 25, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> What was your side doing initially when Trump was fighting the virus?


Initially Trump wasn't fighting the virus.  He banned travel from China after the virus was already inside the US, and then said, "eh good enough."  By the time he got off his fat ass and actually did something significant, the US was already feeling the full effects of the pandemic more than any other country on Earth.  It was one of the largest failures in leadership I've ever seen (since GWB anyway).  I can't say for certain if it'll be THE largest failure of leadership I'll see in my lifetime however, because knowing the GOP, they'll put up Snooki from Jersey Shore for their next presidential nominee.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 25, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Everyone right of Stalin in this thread has witnessed you mod conservatives, while a progressive is doing the exact same thing on the same page.



See, now this made me chuckle, because at least as far as an online political quiz goes, I too am right of Stalin 










From https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-5.25&soc=-4.77 if you're so inclined.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> So let me get this straight, you complain about people not "discussing things like adults", but yet when the argument/discussion isn't going your way it's perfectly fine for you throw out personal attacks, insults, and group them together right?
> 
> 
> 
> If you want people to actually discuss things like adults and intellectuals, then try actually acting like an adult and intellectual first instead of like a child throwing a tantrum on the playground because you got in trouble with teachers for not behaving.



I am happy to do either, I enjoy @Darth Meteos well thought out debate for example, happy to watch their 15 minute socialist video and give them a fair response.  Same goes for @notimp.

But if you go to _Yo mamma dozens snap fest _I will happily dish it out as well as take it without complaint. @djpannda posts here have been a essay of vitriolic hatred dumps for the last two weeks so you can spare me your partisan lecture that it doesn't go both ways.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am happy to do either, I enjoy @Darth Meteos well thought out debate for example, happy to watch their 15 minute socialist video and give them a fair response.  Same goes for @notimp.
> 
> But if you go to _Yo mamma dozens snap fest _I will happily dish it out as well as take it without complaint. @djpannda posts here have been a essay of vitriolic hatred dumps for the last two weeks so you can spare me your partisan lecture that it doesn't go both ways.



How was I being partisan whatsoever? In what way did I say that it was ok for him to be hateful/disrespectful and you not to be? Nevermind, considering that you keep throwing people that disagree with you in the "lefty" pool I don't even know why I ask at this point. 

If you feel that he has been disrespectful/insulting to you then why not just report him for it and move on so he at least gets the same punishment you are receiving if you feel so strongly about? 

I am going to say though, suddenly bringing up another user after you have been ousted for acting out after getting punished just because they did the same thing doesn't really help and makes it seem like you are more interested in diverting attention away from your misdoings than you are to just accepting the consequences of your action and that you just want to play the "I am victim because I am conservative" card, when, in fact, most people don't have an issue with you being a conservative at all, but how you are acting on the forum.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am happy to do either, I enjoy @Darth Meteos well thought out debate for example, happy to watch their 15 minute socialist video and give them a fair response.  Same goes for @notimp.
> 
> But if you go to _Yo mamma dozens snap fest _I will happily dish it out as well as take it without complaint. @djpannda posts here have been a essay of vitriolic hatred dumps for the last two weeks so you can spare me your partisan lecture that it doesn't go both ways.


tears.... I love your tears.. FEED ME SEMOUR!!!


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

*Almost everything Trump said at a Republican event in Pennsylvania about the election was a lie or a conspiracy theory*
https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...sburg-event-biggest-conspiracies-lies-2020-11


> Giuliani is spearheading Trump's efforts to nullify the election results. Among other things, the president and his lawyer have suggested that large numbers of dead people voted in the election, that voting machines were tampered with, ballots were secretly dumped, and Democrats conspired with "big media" to rig the race in favor of President-elect Joe Biden.





> *None of these claims hold merit*, and* Trump's own Department of Homeland Security has debunked many of the conspiracies* through its "Rumor Control" website. In fact, as Insider previously reported, *the 2020 election was the safest and most secure election in US history* because of the use of paper ballots and voting machines with verifiable paper trails.



*Paul Ryan calls on Trump to concede race and end 'baseless conspiracy theory' lawsuits*
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...-trump-to-accept-results-the-election-is-over


> ...the mere fact that the president’s lawyers throw these sort of *baseless conspiracy theories* out at press conferences *but offer no evidence of these in court* tells you that *there is not the kind of widespread voter fraud or systemic voter fraud that would be required to overturn the outcome of this election*,” he said.



Oh, and speaking of 'wide-spread election fraud'...
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1331753114471436289

*1-38*


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 26, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Like I said, I did look, and didn't find anything readily available. The burden of proof is on whoever is making the claims to back them up, which is you. This is gradeschool level shit, dude.
> 
> 
> ^
> ...



Since March China has put blame on the USA for the virus, even blaming our military as the source.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11165...-donald-trump-chief-accused-beijing-cover-up/

All of the articles I linked to all mention China response to the virus, the fact it started in Wuhan China, the fact it was originally called the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus,, China's censorship and/or China's blame shifting. I can't help it that your reading abilities and logic forming are not that well. I read every link I provided you as I assumed before your read them you knocked every single one. I provided enough information with all of those links to provide evidence that China has been blaming the USA since March for the virus. You originally claimed China didn't blame us and then moved the goal post to "oh, they did, but not in the past couple of months" when I provided proof. I really don't give a shit if you don't like the proof, which is why I was hesitant to provide it. The burden of being an idiot is shared by the majority of your side that constantly whines about sources and then attacks 100% of the source material and won't accept it. 

Your side is like a broken record ...

"Provide links or it's fake!!!!"

"We don't like your links so you're wrong!!!"

There's no logical approach to how you treat evidence provided to you. It's the same thing as attacking Trump for every single thing he does. It's just your side is full of shit. I provided links that proves China is blaming the USA for the virus and just because you don't like them doesn't change reality, which is they are blaming us.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Since March China has put blame on the USA for the virus, even blaming our military as the source.
> 
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11165...-donald-trump-chief-accused-beijing-cover-up/
> 
> ...


I didn’t read it ..,but  your wrong


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Initially Trump wasn't fighting the virus.  He banned travel from China after the virus was already inside the US, and then said, "eh good enough."  By the time he got off his fat ass and actually did something significant, the US was already feeling the full effects of the pandemic more than any other country on Earth.  It was one of the largest failures in leadership I've ever seen (since GWB anyway).  I can't say for certain if it'll be THE largest failure of leadership I'll see in my lifetime however, because knowing the GOP, they'll put up Snooki from Jersey Shore for their next presidential nominee.



_*More of your Liberal lies. *_

Even if Trump did indeed act too late *your side acted way too fucking late* because you all refused to act on the virus, called Trump racist and xenophobe for acting and all your side cared about for two months while Trump was trying to respond to the virus was trying to impeach him. Your side for two months activity attacked Trump for acting and then when he gave the State's Governors what they wanted, which was the ability to handle their own States response you blamed him for not being a Dictator and trying to take over the entire Government. Yet, if he wouldn't have given each State the ability to respond, which is what they they wanted you would be bitching about that right now. Your side is highly predicable.

There's no way you get to rewrite what happened. You're also pretty messed up in the head to blame the side that responded because you don't like the response and then let the side that waited to respond and did nothing slide on by without criticism. Your side did jack shit. At least Trump was responding. Trump saved millions of lives with those travel orders. Trump also had no idea the virus was already spreading in the USA because the Chinese CCP lied to the entire world about it. You're a hypocrite and history will remember your parties actions or should I say *inaction* during the start of the pandemic.

As for Trump not acting, I beg to differ.

https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/DOD-Response-Timeline/

We all know you're going to attack Trump regardless if your attacks are logical or not. You default to take the opposite of whatever Trump says or does like clock work. That's not logical, that's hatred. Something you side claims they don't do.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> _*More of your Liberal lies. *_
> 
> Even if Trump did indeed act too late *your side acted way too fucking late* because you all refused to act on the virus, called Trump racist and xenophobe for acting and all your side cared about for two months while Trump was trying to respond to the virus was trying to impeach him. Your side for two months activity attacked Trump for acting and then when he gave the State's Governors what they wanted, which was the ability to handle their own States response you blamed him for not being a Dictator and trying to take over the entire Government. Yet, if he wouldn't have given each State the ability to respond, which is what they they wanted you would be bitching about that right now. Your side is highly predicable.
> 
> ...


All I heard was “weep, weep, cry, cry I didn’t win and no one believed my made up voter fraud “


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> How was I being partisan whatsoever? In what way did I say that it was ok for him to be hateful/disrespectful and you not to be? Nevermind, considering that you keep throwing people that disagree with you in the "lefty" pool I don't even know why I ask at this point.
> 
> If you feel that he has been disrespectful/insulting to you then why not just report him for it and move on so he at least gets the same punishment you are receiving if you feel so strongly about?
> 
> I am going to say though, suddenly bringing up another user after you have been ousted for acting out after getting punished just because they did the same thing doesn't really help and makes it seem like you are more interested in diverting attention away from your misdoings than you are to just accepting the consequences of your action and that you just want to play the "I am victim because I am conservative" card, when, in fact, most people don't have an issue with you being a conservative at all, but how you are acting on the forum.




I'm not griping about me being modded I am aware I am habitual line stepper.  I was just supporting @gregory-samba because his complaint was valid and has been experienced by others.  @Sicklyboy comes in on the thread, plays in the mud with the rest of us then runs and grabs his mod hat when his team gets scored on.   If you don't believe it, or have a problem with that's fine.  It's not on my todo list today to convince you.

I don't report people for content generally, I like my arguments given and received spirited with a lot of salt and I don't plan on starting. If I have a problem I know how to use a ignore button, I am not trying to win a debate by taddling.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I didn’t read it ..,but  your wrong


Liberals in a nutshell.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  Did anyone say anything about about anti-vaxing?  Character assassination doesn't change what is presented in the video.  I'm entertaining bets.


Character assement you mean?
It relates  for this reason. People don't listen to known liars. Same as you don't listen to conspiracy theorists or anti science people. Their position as that immediately casts a shadow on them/kills reputation.
Further more. I decided to watch the video you sent... and boy is it excuratingly painful.
Essentially, for anyone who doesn't want to watch 19 minutes of bullshit.
"Media is evil. Election coup according to Sydney powell" is as much as I can reasonably simplify.
Sydney Powell is not to be trusted. Since guess what? On OAN
Aka even further extremist views than fox news. And even OAN didn't want to deal with what she was about to be said.
In other words your video lacks real substance. I also must ask.
What argument where you trying to make with this video?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I'm not griping abouit me being modded I am aware I am habitual line stepper.  I was just supporting @gregory-samba because his complaint was valid and has been experienced by others.  @Sicklyboy comes in on the thread, plays in the mud with the rest of us then runs and grabs his mod hat when his team gets scored on.   If you don't believe it, or have a problem with that's fine.  It's not on my todo list today to convinced you.
> 
> I don't report people for content generally, I like my arguments given and received spirited with a lot of salt and I don't plan on starting. If I have a problem I know how to use a ignore button, I am not trying to win a debate by taddling.



I just think if one side can call people on our side every name in the book yet when I curse at their side I get censored. I wasn't even attacking a forum user, just stating what I think about Liberals.

Then after being treated differently than the Liberals I noticed that @UltraSUPRA is receiving the same treatment with his image/meme posts. Other Liberals have filled this thread with memes and they don't get deleted, but when UltraSupra does it, even if his memes contain text or not they are removed.

I just thought I'd point out the hypocrisy by tagging the mod who censored me for the way he's acting. If I ran this site I'd get rid of him, but this Political section is biased against the conservatives, most mods on this side are lefties and frankly the world isn't a fair place to begin with. It's sad that our side gets shafted, but that's just reality now. Liberals don't like conflicting viewpoints so they will just try to erase you from history. They are control freaks that aren't happy unless they are imposing their beliefs on other people and we're seeing that happen here in real time with the censorship.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 26, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You originally claimed China didn't blame us



I would LOVE for you to pull up where I "claimed China didn't blame us". Please, I'm waiting. Find me where I said that China didn't blame us, not taken out of context, and I will refrain from making a single post more in this thread.

Your original quote was "Right now the CCP is running a smear campaign against the USA that tells their citizens that the USA started the virus."

I wanted proof on that quote. The entire thing, as I had quoted. Including the "Right now"

You provided articles from March. You've provided NOTHING that backs up your claims that they're still blaming the US "right now" or even remotely recent.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> There's no way you get to rewrite what happened.


You're right, Trump fucked up the federal coronavirus response, and then he lost re-election because of it.  Nothing's going to change that.  Now it's only a matter of whether Trump supporters can live with themselves knowing that they voted in a mass murderer.  LMAO just kidding, they have no sense of empathy, shame, or guilt.  

We all knew Trump would fuck up the response to any actual disaster that wasn't of his own making.  It was only a matter of time before he was tested in that sense.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Liberals in a nutshell.


Lol who the hell listen the crazy homeless man screaming in the corner... that why it don’t matter what you or even Trump screams about.  Lolol “ Repent the end is near” lol shut the f up


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Character assement you mean?
> It relates  for this reason. People don't listen to known liars. Same as you don't listen to conspiracy theorists or anti science people. Their position as that immediately casts a shadow on them/kills reputation.
> Further more. I decided to watch the video you sent... and boy is it excuratingly painful.
> Essentially, for anyone who doesn't want to watch 19 minutes of bullshit.
> ...


*One America News Network (OAN)*
Mediabiasfactcheck rating:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-america-news-network/ 


>





>





> Overall, we rate One America News Questionable based on far-right bias, lack of sourcing, promotion of conspiracy theories, and propaganda as well as numerous failed fact checks. *OAN is not a credible news source.*



Allsides rating:
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/one-america-news-network-media-bias


>



In other words, a totally worthless source of fake news.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

Judge Orders Halt To Further Vote Certification, Prompting Quick Appeal To Pennsylvania Supreme Court.


----------



## Pyrate02 (Nov 26, 2020)

Why the fuck is this stupid thread here?  This site is about gaming.  F biden and the horse he rode in on.


----------



## RandomUser (Nov 26, 2020)

Insulting other members in this forum is against the rules?



chrisrlink said:


> personally all this bitching back and forth is really irking me can't wait for biden to take over so you all put a sock in it god forbid i was president (even though i'd be the "nicest" (Policy wise) dictator on earth at least i'd have the scene in mind by rolling back DMCA provisions (such as  allowing of hacking consoles legally for homebrew only (Piracy would still be illegal but at least companies won't touch people like SciresM) also SSI/DI reform etc I'm tired of this two sided system that always at each others throats nothing good ever gets done


Did Biden's plan includes phasing out the SSDI? Does he have something better to replace it with? Or perhaps beef up the SSI to match that to SSDI? I'm curious.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Nov 26, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Yes but those numbers are off due to the fact you cant tell how many would of died anyway due to heart disease or from the common flu. Lumping them all under covid fatalaties because they tested positive isnt the correct way to do it. Before this heart disease was the #1 killer in the US with obessity and resporatory high up there (expecially with the elderly that died from pnemonia due to covid and not covid directly. Aka would of died anyway if they caught the flu.)





Darth Meteos said:


> imagine being such a cringelord that 250k people dying in your country alone isn't enough for you to listen to reason
> this guy would be on the titanic shouting that everyone's a pussy, it's just some cold water


----------



## Foxi4 (Nov 26, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Full transparency - you've reported a total of four posts from those two users. One of which was removed as a violation of the image-only post rule. The others were not found to be in violation of that rule. This is not some large-scale targeted plot to ignore your reports.
> 
> Edit 2 - Also full transparency, none of said reports were handled by me. And since I'm probably the most active staffer in this thread, I generally try not to moderate things in this thread as an effort to remove any of my own bias from my moderation decisions. But if I see something that is right in front of my eyes while I'm in this thread, and it is a blatant violation of the rules, I am going to handle it as is appropriate.


Complaints in regards to moderating decisions always give me a hearty chuckle. The GBAtemp staff appears to be a Schrodinger's cat of politics - simultaneously "Stalin Incarnate" and "Literally Hitler" until a specific decision is observed, at which point the scales tip one way or the other. Quantum moderation mechanics in action.

Spoilers, the staff on this site is one of the most diverse groups I've ever worked with, and I mean diverse along just about every axis you can think of, not just political alignment. Individual decisions don't exist in isolation - we have discussions about them regularly, often for days before we decide what kind of response is most appropriate. If any punitive action is taken, you can rest assured that it's well-motivated. If something slips under the radar, you all have a convenient report button to fix that - we're not machines. Keep in mind that we may disagree with your assessment.

Following the rules is a pretty good recipe for not getting your posts deleted, and an incredibly low bar in terms of general forum decorum. With that said, there's also something to be said about being able to take a cheeky post on the chin and moving on. Above all, we're here to have fun - try to remember that when the temperature gets too high. This is coming from the biggest Trumpkin on the patch, and yet still in a position to comment on the matter, which should ease any concern in regards to bias.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

> Hue Jackson's NFL head coaching record: 11–44–1 (.205)





> 1899 Cleveland Spiders record:* 20-134* *(.130)*





> 2012 Charlotte Bobcats record:* 7-59 (.106)*





> Susan Lucci Emmy nominations won: *1-20 (.048)*





> 2020 Trump election fraud cases won: *1-38 (.026)*


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*





Juliani has not adjudicated 39 cases of election fraud, partisans & cowards dismissing and passing it up to higher courts is not a decision, that is "1-2-3 NOT IT!"*


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Juliani has not adjudicated 39 cases of election fraud, partisans & cowards dismissing and passing it up to higher courts is not a decision, that is 1-2-3 NOT IT!*


Fact check: It's Giuliani, NOT "Juliani."
Fact check: I never claimed *G-i-u-l-i-a-n-i *adjudicated 39 cases.
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1331791063086927875
wIdE-sPrEaD eLeCtIoN fRaUd


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Fact check: It's Giuliani, NOT "Juliani."
> Fact check: I never claimed *G-i-u-l-i-a-n-i *adjudicated 39 cases.
> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1331791063086927875
> wIdE-sPrEaD eLeCtIoN fRaUd








There is election fraud, the qualifier "Wide spread" is a moving goal post that cannot be quantified to insulate yourself from any possibility of being wrong.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> There is election fraud,* the qualifier "Wide spread" is a moving goal post that cannot be quantified* to insulate yourself from any possibility of being wrong.


There is tremendous evidence of wide spread voter fraud in that there is irrefutable proof that our Republican poll watchers and observers were not allowed to be present in poll counting rooms. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia and others. Unconstitutional!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 14, 2020



> wide spread voter fraud





> wide spread voter fraud





> *wide spread voter fraud*


gg 2 ez


----------



## omgcat (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Judge Orders Halt To Further Vote Certification, Prompting Quick Appeal To Pennsylvania Supreme Court.



even if they throw out the not included 10k mail in votes, Joe Biden still has a lead of 80k+.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 26, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *One America News Network (OAN)*
> Mediabiasfactcheck rating:
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-america-news-network/
> 
> ...


I'm surprised it isn't lower.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

omgcat said:


> even if they throw out the not included 10k mail in votes, Joe Biden still has a lead of 80k+.



_



			"An opinion accompanying the Supreme Court’s order by Justice Samuel Alito, joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch, suggested that the court may still revisit the case after the election and toss out contested mail-in ballots. Although the Supreme Court declined to rule on the matter before the election, Alito wrote that there was a "strong likelihood that the State Supreme Court decision violates the Federal Constitution."

Pennsylvania plans to segregate ballots received after Election Day in case the court takes future legal action to challenge them, CNN reported.
		
Click to expand...

_


> Due to the possible future reversal of the Supreme Court’s Pennsylvania decision, Pennsylvania voters should vote in person at an elections office or polling station rather than by mail to ensure their vote is counted, Vox reported.



Translation. Mail in ballots in PA was not passed legally, they punted it hoping that it did not affect the outcome.  If it does affect the outcome they plan on intervening.   Bye Bye mail in ballots.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Translation. Mail in ballots in PA was not passed legally, they punted it hoping that it did not affect the outcome.  If it does affect the outcome they plan on intervening.   Bye Bye mail in ballots.



$300 bet it goes nowhere (causes the state to flip). you in?

in fact, I'll toxx clause myself.

If PA flips from Biden, I'll delete this account and won't make a new one.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 26, 2020)

omgcat said:


> If PA flips to Biden, I'll delete this account and won't make a new one.


But it already flipped to Biden.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 26, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> But it already flipped to Biden.



my bad, other way around. meant "from" not "to".


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

omgcat said:


> $300 bet it goes nowhere (causes the state to flip). you in?
> 
> in fact, I'll toxx clause myself.
> 
> ...



I'll pass, I am not making predictions on anything and I enjoy debating you.  I am just comfortable stating as a matter of fact: Mail in ballots were not passed legally in PA, they know this and didn't want to have to intervene because of covid hoping it wouldn't make a difference.

If _it will _make a electoral difference things are going to escalate and get interesting very quickly.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I'll pass, I am not making predictions on anything and I enjoy debating you.  I am just comfortable stating as a matter of fact: Mail in ballots were not passed legally in PA, they know this and didn't want to have to intervene because of covid hoping it wouldn't make a difference.
> 
> If _it will _make a electoral difference things are going to escalate and get interesting very quickly.




for clarification by the way, the court was arguing about "late mail-in ballots", not "mail-in ballots as a whole". so even if this escalates to the SC, only the 10k votes get thrown out, as those ware the ballots that were not received by election day.

"*In the face of Act 77’s deadline, the Pennsylvania Su-preme Court, by a vote of four to three, decreed that mailed ballots need not be received by election day. App. to Pet. for Cert. 80a–81a. Instead, it imposed a different rule: Ballots are to be treated as timely if they are postmarked on or be-fore election day and are received within three days there-after. Id., at 48a. In addition, the court ordered that a bal-lot with no postmark or an illegible postmark must be regarded as timely if it is received by that same date. Id., at 48a, n. 26.*"

the argument was that statute dictates that votes must be received by election day, and that act 77 extending the deadline is in question could be onerous.

"*The court expressly acknowledged that the statutory provision mandating receipt by election day was unambiguous and that its abrogation of that rule was not based on an interpretation of the statute.*"

if act 77 gets thrown out by either the state SC or the US SC it will only effect ballots received after Nov 3rd, including those that were not post-marked, or those that were post-marked before Nov 3rd. these ballots were separated and held aside and are not in the current tally.

*"Although the Pennsylvania Supreme Court rejected Pe-titioner’s request for that relief, we have been informed by the Pennsylvania Attorney General that the Secretary of the Commonwealth issued guidance today directing county boards of elections to segregate ballots received between 8:00 p.m. on November 3, 2020, and 5:00 p.m. on November 6, 2020."*

I am quoting the opinion you linked. you are mistaking what is being argued in this case.

in summary, if the case makes it through the courts, the 10k late votes separated get thrown out, if the court case fails, the 10k votes get added to Biden's current tally.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

omgcat said:


> even if they throw out the not included 10k mail in votes, Joe Biden still has a lead of 80k+.


What's really pathetic is that these lawsuits aren't even about overturning the election anymore.  Trump's using them to signal to his base that he "fought against corruption until the bitter end" while giving him an excuse not to concede.  

He has a long history of blaming his defeats on conspiracy.  A couple examples:



> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> 
> Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified.
> 9:28 AM · Feb 3, 2016



He also *preemptively* promoted "widespread voter fraud" weeks before the 2016 election:


> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> 
> "@THEREALMOGUL: 41% of American voters believe the  election could be "stolen" from DonaldTrump due to widespread voter fraud. - Politico"
> 7:32 AM · Oct 18, 2016


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

Here comes the Delusional Squad again to tell us that the election still isn't over even though the transition is in progress and Biden's already receiving presidential briefings.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 26, 2020)

let the record show that


Xzi said:


> Here comes the Delusional Squad again to tell us that the election still isn't over even though the transition is in progress and Biden's already receiving presidential briefings.



the electoral college electors have been selected and told what to do. it is pretty much a done deal in PA.

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-pennsylvania.pdf


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

omgcat said:


> let the record show that
> 
> 
> the electoral college electors have been selected and told what to do. it is pretty much a done deal in PA.
> ...


And even if it wasn't, he's got over 270 EC votes worth of states certified without PA.  All hail marys have failed for the Trump team.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Here comes the Delusional Squad again to tell us that the election still isn't over even though the transition is in progress and Biden's already receiving presidential briefings.









The election is not over, the electoral college has not even convened yet.

You can only govern through the consent of the governed, can Joe Biden get enough consent to govern?  Doubtful.

There is no shortage of dementia patients who believe & claim they are President, it's only true if people accept their governance.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You can only govern through the consent of the governed


Trump won in 2016 with 3 million fewer votes than his opponent, so obviously this isn't true.  Just another lie you tell yourself to aid in your denial.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The election is not over, *the electoral college has not even convened yet*.
> 
> You can only govern through the consent of the governed, can Joe Biden get enough consent to govern? Doubtful.
> 
> *There is no shortage of dementia patients who believe & claim they are President*, it's only true if people accept their governance.


In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2016

Check the date.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> Let me show you:
> 
> 
> It sounds like you are whining about the fact that when someone points out that you are wrong then it doesn't count because I'm only saying "you suck". Which by the way is a flat out lie.
> ...





omgcat said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
> 
> Published data have suggested that sneezing may produce as many as 40 000 droplets between 0.5–12 μm in diameter (Cole & Cook, 1998; Tang et al., 2006) that may be expelled at speeds up to 100 m/s (Wells, 1955; Cole & Cook, 1998), whereas coughing may produce up to 3000 droplet nuclei, about the same number as talking for five minutes (Cole & Cook, 1998; Fitzgerald & Haas, 2005; Tang et al., 2006). Despite the variety in size, large droplets comprise most of the total volume of expelled respiratory droplets. Further data on the behavior of droplet dispersion in naturally generated aerosols are needed.
> 
> ...



I'm not too keen on responding to people who think feminist theory has the ability to redefine old English words, but..

I'm not a dentist, and I've been working remotely likely before you were born. 

Are you claiming others research as your own? "we have measured"? You think you speak for all scientists? 

One who is willing to give up liberty for temporary safety deserves neither. - evil nazi Benjamin Franklin.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trump won in 2016 with 3 million fewer votes than his opponent, so obviously this isn't true.  Just another lie you tell yourself to aid in your denial.



Not really, Americans don't count illegal aliens and Californians.

Joe Biden is not legitimate, the election was not legitimate.  I plan on raising a flag tomorrow, declaring my independence, asking for international recognition of my sovereignty.  I expect it to go well.

Republic of Jimbo FTW.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

omgcat said:


> maybe you should read more instead of flailing about.
> these two links are a thing called a source.
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
> ...





omgcat said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
> 
> Published data have suggested that sneezing may produce as many as 40 000 droplets between 0.5–12 μm in diameter (Cole & Cook, 1998; Tang et al., 2006) that may be expelled at speeds up to 100 m/s (Wells, 1955; Cole & Cook, 1998), whereas coughing may produce up to 3000 droplet nuclei, about the same number as talking for five minutes (Cole & Cook, 1998; Fitzgerald & Haas, 2005; Tang et al., 2006). Despite the variety in size, large droplets comprise most of the total volume of expelled respiratory droplets. Further data on the behavior of droplet dispersion in naturally generated aerosols are needed.
> 
> ...



I'm just going by CDC guidelines ...  you have disproved nothing. The guidelines constantly change, and have resulted in 30% of all small businesses being shut down.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

"n 2015, we conducted a randomized controlled trial to compare the efficacy of cloth masks with that of medical masks and controls (standard practice) among healthcare workers in Vietnam (_4_). Rates of infection were consistently higher among those in the cloth mask group than in the medical mask and control groups. This finding suggests that risk for infection was higher for those wearing cloth masks. The mask tested was a locally manufactured, double-layered cotton mask. Participants were given 5 cloth masks for a 4-week study period and were asked to wash the masks daily with soap and water (_4_). The poor performance may have been because the masks were not washed frequently enough or because they became moist and contaminated. Medical and cloth masks were used by some participants in the control group, but the poor performance of cloth masks persisted in post hoc analysis when we compared all participants who used medical masks (from the control and the medical mask groups) with all participants who used only a cloth mask (from the control and the cloth mask groups)(_4_)."

Notice all the *may*'s in the article as well. If a cloth mask is 70% effective then jee golly, why is everyone getting cornholio virus primarily in Democrat run cities? (btw you don't mention anything about constantly cleaning them, or using double/tri layed etc, not touching them, etc etc etc etc)... I assumed right about you, minus the militant part. You come across like a coward. If you consider yourself "militant" you're in for a shocker. I was exactly like you when I was 19-26. Not like I care or judged you by that, (only your side makes summary judgements about people because of their beliefs), it's not hard.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mammastuffing said:


> Let me show you:
> 
> 
> It sounds like you are whining about the fact that when someone points out that you are wrong then it doesn't count because I'm only saying "you suck". Which by the way is a flat out lie.
> ...



What? I never even gave the opinions of my son or niece. I was making the point that I have family who are Doctors. It doesn't make X, Y, or Z true or untrue. You project.

You're the only person whining in this conversation. I could give two shit about what you think.  Go retweet that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mammastuffing said:


> Haha, wow. You really are the stereotypical Trump supporter. Extremely unintelligent, racist, a gullible fairytale believing religious moron. You believe without evidence and completely lack the ability of critical thinking.
> 
> So from the bottom of my heart; go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshat. Good thing is that there are more people like you who die of covid because of your stupidity.



And you are a foolishly judgemental individual who will keep pushing both sides apart to the point it will become untenable for one side that won't end well for your side. The left has been literally hunting, threatening, and killing "Trump supporters" (including people who pick him as a lesser of two evils - barely supporters, but your side just picks such awful candidates that he is the better pick. Yeah - baffling right?)  the past four years. We've endured summary executions.

Look at you, saying it's a good thing death fall upon people you disagree with, because of their 'stupidity'. What about all the 'discriminated blackses' people? And oh dear the LGBT community as well! They could be easily tricked in their vulnerable states without your help, because according to most the left, they are helpless and oppressed to such INSANE levels by all the white supremes!! that roam the streets at night.. ad day... righhht. I've never met a Nazi in my life, and I'm a white male. You are the real racists, assuming people are stupid and need your help. Plot that onto one of your graphs which are generously speaking, based on very little evidence.It would fit right in.

You're so high and mighty. A real bastion of light. I don't claim to be fucking Einstein; get a grip. Read this as well.

https://www.avaresearch.com/files/UnskilledAndUnawareOfIt.pdf


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664
> Check the date.



I know History teachers do an awful job these days, but we don't live in a Democracy. Not directly. It's a Federal Constitutional Republic. This makes sure that coastal cities don't end up dictating policy to "fly over states" that  they have no idea how to run.

From an internal far-left publication about the then upcoming election, assuming Trump would win or not let Biden win. They were planning a violent response. Infiltrating antifa was about as hard as I imagine omgcat's arms. (Nooodley soy powered):

https://postimg.cc/7bbYRNmd

Fine for the far-left, but when the Republicans wanted all votes to be counted before a victor was announced, it was heresy. Hilarious.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Character assement you mean?
> It relates  for this reason. People don't listen to known liars. Same as you don't listen to conspiracy theorists or anti science people. Their position as that immediately casts a shadow on them/kills reputation.
> Further more. I decided to watch the video you sent... and boy is it excuratingly painful.
> Essentially, for anyone who doesn't want to watch 19 minutes of bullshit.
> ...



"Ad hominem" is what you do when you want to reject the material by rejecting the person on your "assement" of their character.  If we were to reject all material from every source that has questionable virtues or have done questionable things, we would not have anything.  There would be reason to dismiss every single source that has been posted on this thread.  The main point I got from the video, was that Sydney Powell is being empowered, and the Trump administration is "freeing the reigns on her" because the success of his administration relies on her.  I bought this video up, because it demonstrates a starkly contradictory narrative than that of the new sources that pair Syney's Powell seeming gaffes with Trump's dismissal of her, and intention to lead their viewers to believe it as a direct correlation.  It's blatantly non-factual dishonesty and politically driven.

This is not a conversation in good faith.  




Lacius said:


> Widespread voter fraud would perhaps be something large enough to potentially tip the election.



If this is the context we are using to define widespread voting fraud, then in the context of a state, widespread voter fraud is proven when there is enough fraud to tip the state.



omgcat said:


> $300 bet it goes nowhere (causes the state to flip). you in?



What if the state doesn't flip to Trump, and the electoral votes go to noone?


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

It's official folks, I am out.   250 years as a country... not a long run but it was fun while it lasted. Joe Biden will not be my President,  I didn't have to change much feel free to fill your name in and send off your own get out of tyranny free card.

Who do I message to get my flag added to the country listing?

Yaak Montana, November 26, 2020



C/O:  Pedophile elect Joseph Biden's Nurse or attending child to be read to him on a "Clear" day.

The Declaration of Jimbo formerly of the united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of Jimbo to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies Jimbo; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain  Democratic party & Joseph Biden is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has done away with the due process of free, fair and legitimate elections.
He has sworn fealty to global governance in circumvention of the sovereignty of the United States of America.
He will erect a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For bringing us for to answer for pretended offences
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting Soros funded rioters to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless members of ANTIFA & BLM, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
​In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Progressive brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
Jimbo, therefore, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good dude of this, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies Jimbo is, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent bro; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the United states, and that all political connection between them and the State of the Democratic party, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent dude, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 26, 2020)

It wouldn't matter if it went to the Supreme Court in PA anyway, the Supreme Court is a rogue  court with a radical 5-vote majority of leftwing Democrats. That court previously gerrymandered the state to elect more congressional Democrats. It also eviscerated the states election laws to assist Biden. It ended signature requirements and postmarks for mail-in voting, it extended by 3 days the counting period for mail-in voting and it denied observers the ability to actually observe the counting process, it will continue to do the Democrat and Biden's bidding.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 26, 2020)

eastwald said:


> I was making the point that I have family who are Doctors.


 Okay, I accept that you have doctors in your family. But *my* point is, how is it relevant to the conversation? Do you think it should give your arguments more credibility?


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> It's official folks, I am out.   250 years as a country... not a long run but it was fun while it lasted. Joe Biden will not be my President,  I didn't have to change much feel free to fill your name in and send off your own get out of tyranny free card.
> 
> Who do I message to get my flag added to the country listing?
> 
> ...


Just like the bible and other works of fiction this is comedy gold. It takes one heck of a special individual to come up with and have the balls to post something as cringe as this is. And they claim I am the one with mental health issues


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

Attack on religion.  Check.

Attack on mental health.  Check.

Ooh.  Personal attacks are in again!  My favorite.



AmandaRose said:


> It takes one heck of a special individual to come up with and have the balls to post something as cringe as this is



I doubt you can  even remember what _that's _like.

But anyway.  Fact checkers are arbitrators of fact.  They even say so.  Jimbo has no incentive to misguide anybody.  /s

It was only yesterday when Amanda was telling sob stories about mean people making insults about mental health too.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Attack on religion.  Check.
> 
> Attack on mental health.  Check.
> 
> ...


Considering this thread is full of posts saying I have mental health issues and full of attacks on people myself included who are atheists and attacks on people with dementia ect you know because your side says its FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I therefore am allowed to exercise my freedom of speech in saying his post was completely insane.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Considering this thread is full of posts saying I have mental health issues and full of attacks on people myself included who are atheists and attacks on people with dementia ect you know because your side says its FREEDOM OF SPEACH. I therefore am allowed to exercise my freedom of speach in saying his post was completely insane.


Last post I remember reading about your mental health was about all the interviews that you went through to verify your mental health.  I also remember, distinctly saying how you disapproved of people suggesting/insulting Biden for being mentally checked out, even though you probably said nothing when people said it about Trump.  I am assuming.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

His post was ridiculous.  I wasn't going to say anything.  But you had to make it the topic that we are talking about now, and I think there is a relevent point or two that seem to be completely lost on you.  Even bullshit makes for good fertilizer.

Do you have your own concept of an identity, or do you associate with "a side" and pin your self-respect on however that side appears socially?  I'm really trying to understand how you think.  I see fanaticism and ridiculousness on every subject-so it's difficult for me to relate to this "us vs them" mentality.

*That "fake it 'til I make it" mentality has people all screwed up.  I wonder what happened to the person who coined that phrase.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Last post I remember reading about your mental health was about all the interviews that you went through to verify your mental health.  I also remember, distinctly saying how you disapproved of people suggesting/insulting Biden for being mentally checked out, even though you probably said nothing when people said it about Trump.  I am assuming.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> His post was ridiculous.  I wasn't going to say anything.  But you had to make it the topic that we are talking about now, and I think there is a relevent point or two that seem to be completely lost on you.  Even bullshit makes for good fertilizer.
> 
> Do you have your own concept of an identity, or do you associate with "a side" and pin your self-respect on however that side appears socially?  I'm really trying to understand how you think.  I see fanaticism and ridiculousness on every subject-so it's difficult for me to relate to this "us vs them" mentality.


Onions have layers


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Onions have layers



You know, not everybody like onions.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You know, not everybody like onions.


Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to make a post like that and miss the meaning. It pretty much sums up debating in here. Purposely miss the meaning just so you can have an argumentative edge.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to make a post like that and miss the meaning. It pretty much sums up debating in here. Purposely miss the meaning just so you can have an argumentative edge.


I was quoting a line from Shrek.  You do know Shrek, don't you?


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I was quoting a line from Shrek.


Exactly like Shrek. 

You irritating Donkey.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Exactly like Shrek.
> 
> You irritating Donkey.



Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to make a post like that and miss the meaning. It pretty much sums up debating in here. Purposely miss the meaning just so you can have an argumentative edge.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to make a post like that and miss the meaning. It pretty much sums up debating in here. Purposely miss the meaning just so you can have an argumentative edge.


Sure you did


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

Now you are talking to yourself.

But really.  What was the point in calling someone an onion when you could have gone for cakes or parfaits?


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Now you are talking to yourself.
> 
> But really.  What was the point in calling someone an onion when you could have gone for cakes or parfaits?


Because people stopped caring about their hygiene during lock down


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Because people stopped caring about their hygiene during lock down



You smell okay from here.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

Because I still work on the daily. Gotta keep that fresh smell around my co workers. Lock Down barely existed for me.



https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...all-soap-sales-people-WFH-showering-less.html


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Because I still work on the daily. Gotta keep that fresh smell around my co workers. Lock Down barely existed for me.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...all-soap-sales-people-WFH-showering-less.html


To their credit, they are bathing in hand sanitizer as an alternative.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> To their credit, they are bathing in hand sanitizer as an alternative.


I hope they are not putting that in their hair


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> I hope they are not putting that in their hair


::Buys stock in Rogaine::


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Just like the bible and other works of fiction this is comedy gold.





tabzer said:


> His post was ridiculous.  I wasn't going to say anything.



I don't know what is so funny or ridiculous about it,  it is no crazier than a bunch of wig wearing free masons telling the King, yo bro.  You done.

If you had read Paragraph 2 it is in the founding documents of Old America & New America AKA the Republic of Jimbo It is my duty and responsibility to abolish this government, Bidens powers are derived from the consent of the governed. (that would be me).  I have revoked that consent.

Furthermore we all agree a Biden administration would be destructive to mine, and others happiness so I am well within my rights and duty to abolish this government which I am doing at this time.

Republic of Jimbo is better sounding than CHAZ, and unlike the anarchists in Seattle I actually own the territory I am claiming.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, _--*That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of Jimbo to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.*_


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> ::Buys stock in Rogaine::


Looks like Terry Crews aka jimbo13's idol was going a little crazy on that hand sanitizer.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I don't know what is so funny or ridiculous about it,
> 
> If you had read Paragraph 2 it is in the founding documents of Old America & New America AKA the Republic of Jimbo It is my duty and responsibility to abolish this government, Bidens powers are derived from the consent of the governed. (that would be me).  I have revoked that consent.
> 
> ...


The ridiculousness of it was that it appears to be recruiting for a seff-described soceity of 1.  I am all for the idea of personal sovereignty, but there is no way to reasonably expect people to subscribe and like.  I did appreciate the "I am a fact checker, so what I say must be a fact", in a satirical sense.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> Looks like Terry Crews aka jimbo13's idol was going a little crazy on that hand sanitizer.


His hair is beyond your ability to perceive.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Last post I remember reading about your mental health was about all the interviews that you went through to verify your mental health.  I also remember, distinctly saying how you disapproved of people suggesting/insulting Biden for being mentally checked out, even though you probably said nothing when people said it about Trump.  I am assuming.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> His post was ridiculous.  I wasn't going to say anything.  But you had to make it the topic that we are talking about now, and I think there is a relevent point or two that seem to be completely lost on you.  Even bullshit makes for good fertilizer.
> 
> ...


I guess you.missed the few times I have said anyone making fun of any person with dementia is scum. As I said to you previously I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy.

As for trans people having mental health issues It's simply a bullshit claim as I pointed out in my other post there are rigorous checks made to make sure that we don't have any mental health issues before we can transition so yes I get worked up when such ridiculous claims are made and I don't apologise for getting worked up about it. I would at least hope my previous post about the process of transitioning helped to educate and help educate at least some people in this regard.


tabzer we have had some heated debates but that doesn't mean I don't like or respect you for standing up for what you think is right.  Unlike others here you tend to stay away from making the ridiculous claims that other right wing members have been making. And you also haven't been so ridiculous as to declare yourself so all is good 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> Looks like Terry Crews aka jimbo13's idol was going a little crazy on that hand sanitizer.


Having read the insanity of his last few posts it sounds like jimbo 13 has been drinking the hand sanitizer


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The ridiculousness of it was that it appears to be recruiting for a seff-described soceity of 1.  I am all for the idea of personal sovereignty, but there is no way to reasonably expect people to subscribe and like.  I did appreciate the "I am a fact checker, so what I say must be a fact", in a satirical sense.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



John Cena cuts my hair, you can't see it.

And I am working on a bill of rights currently, I actually have 6 more acres of territory than the Vatican.  More than enough space for a new nation.  Our population is currently 12, not counting pets & livestock.  I'll let you know what the immigration policies are when I get them worked out.

I don't think we are doing the tired, hungry and huddled mass's.  I am leaning towards, your doctors, engineers and attractive women.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> John Cena cuts my hair, you can't see it.
> 
> And I am working on a bill of rights currently, I actually have 6 more acres of territory than the Vatican.  More than enough space for a new nation.  Our population is currently 12, not counting pets & livestock.  I'll let you know what the immigration policies are when I get them worked out.
> 
> I don't think we are doing the tired, hungry and huddled mass's.  I am leaning towards, your doctors, engineers and attractive women.


Dem Libs are gunna come for your land. Topple your paradise. And breed with your women.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I guess you.missed the few times I have said anyone making fun of any person with dementia is scum. As I said to you previously I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy.



Okay.  So that would make my question to you:  Were you saying this in response to people making similar claims about Trump, or was Trump, at the time, much more of a serious threat that you let it slide?  Or maybe there is the possibility that you changed as a person since then?



AmandaRose said:


> As for trans people having mental health issues It's simply a bullshit claim as I pointed out in my other post there are rigorous checks made to make sure that we don't have any mental health issues before we can transition so yes I get worked up when such ridiculous claims are made and I don't apologise for getting worked up about it. I would at least hope my previous post about the process of transitioning helped to educate and help educate at least some people in this regard.



I know it is important to you, but to me, the issue has nothing to do with being trans.  People call each other crazy just because they disagree on issues.  Sometimes people genuinely think people are crazy, or mentally disabled, and are shocked that it isn't being treated as a genuine concern.  Our culture seems to have reached this point where the difference is indistinguishable, and I blame the cavalier of character assassination in order to discredit material being presented.



AmandaRose said:


> tabzer we have had some heated debates but that doesn't mean I don't like or respect you for standing up for what you think is right.  Unlike others here you tend to stay away from making the ridiculous claims that other right wing members have been making. And you also haven't been so ridiculous as to declare yourself so all is good



Do you remember when I said,"There is a possibility for Trump to still turn things around, so I think it is premature to declare Biden as the conclusive winner of the presidential race", and that was a completely ridiculous thing to say?  I do.

I think the fact that this thread is even still alive is because that point hasn't been put to rest yet.  We are all still watching, seeing what will happen next.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> Dem Libs are gunna come for your land. Topple your paradise. And breed with your women.


Hey don't be so nasty.  Jimbo said nothing about procreation.


----------



## jimbo13 (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Dem Libs are gunna come for your land. Topple your paradise. And breed with your women.



Wouldn't be the first time, I am a Salish Indian.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I guess you.missed the few times I have said anyone making fun of any person with dementia is scum. As I said to you previously I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy.
> 
> As for trans people having mental health issues It's simply a bullshit claim as I pointed out in my other post there are rigorous checks made to make sure that we don't have any mental health issues before we can transition so yes I get worked up when such ridiculous claims are made and I don't apologise for getting worked up about it. I would at least hope my previous post about the process of transitioning helped to educate and help educate at least some people in this regard.
> 
> ...


It's only a mental issue if it inhibits your everyday life. If you work just fine then it's all good. No mental health issue. People always misinterpret DSM and how psychologist handle the book. Going strictly by the book is not good. There's a lot that's not in the book that only a psychologist with training will know how to handle.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Wouldn't be the first time, I am a Salish Indian.


you smell that... it smells weird in here ...almost like manure


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

djpannda said:


> you smell that... it smells weird in here ...almost like manure


Uh oh.  The social distancing isn't working.  Everyone panic!


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

SG854 said:


> It's only a mental issue if it inhibits your everyday life. If you work just fine then it's all good. No mental health issue. People always misinterpret DSM and how psychologist handle the book. Going strictly by the book is not good. There's a lot that's not in the book that only a psychologist with training will know how to handle.


Exactly and that is why we go through years of evaluation before we can get GRS so as people are Not transitioning because of mental health issues. 



tabzer said:


> Okay.  So that would make my question to you:  Were you saying this in response to people making similar claims about Trump, or was Trump, at the time, much more of a serious threat that you let it slide?  Or maybe there is the possibility that you changed as a person since then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I genuinely haven't seen posts on the temp claiming Trump has dementia had I seen them then yes I would have pulled the poster up for doing so.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Exactly and that is why we go through years of evaluation before we can get GRS so as people are Not transitioning because of mental health issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Must've been a reddit thing then.  TBH the worst I heard here was "he is stupid", or attempts to personally insult him.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

Apologies for assuming gbatemp is as bad as reddit.  Hope I didn't offend anyone.

*snip*


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Exactly and that is why we go through years of evaluation before we can get GRS so as people are Not transitioning because of mental health issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Every day folk can link as many articles as the want but unless you go through schooling then you wouldn't know how to interpret the book. 

A psychology book isn't black and white you fit all these bullet points so there for you have this mental illness. If that's the case then everybody will be diagnosed with a psychological illness, because everybody fits the description of some mental illness. The main ingredient is if it causes extreme distress and/or inhibits your life in some way. This is something that people miss when they play psychologist trying to diagnose a random person online who they know nothing of their history.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 26, 2020)

In an unsurprising turn of events, twitter is censoring people as usual. 






--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh and Twitter has banned the Pennsylvania Senator who organized the election integrity hearing.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 26, 2020)

shamzie said:


> In an unsurprising turn of events, twitter is censoring people as usual.



I don't use Twitter. But that just looks like a warning that the link may be unsafe? Doesn't look like they're blocking anything. (Not saying that you are saying that they are blocking, but in the post you pasted it says users are blocked.)


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

shamzie said:


> In an unsurprising turn of events, twitter is censoring people as usual.
> 
> View attachment 235470


CNN reports that Sydney Powell's website is potentially harming users by a method of "scraping anonymous user data" by the use of something called "cookies".  Fact checkers can verify that this is a invasion of privacy potentially endangering visitors from being tallied in a form of statistics that would be considered sensitive by users wishing not to be included.  This is the first time that we decided to make such a situation a big deal, but hey, maybe we are willing to give up cookies now.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 26, 2020)

Can I get a list of medical conditions I am not allowed to joke about, use in turns of phrase, reference in a story or similar?

Cripple is a long standing one it seems.

Trichotillomania (pulling hair out) is about 10 years since it crossed my radar
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-hair-complaints-sufferers-rare-disorder.html

Cancer is one according to some.

Suicide is apparently another.

Have seen heart attacks, once even pertaining to the phrase "serious as a"

Apparently dementia (not sure what flavours or as a general concept) gets added to the list. People also seem touchy when various flavours of autism and depression get mentioned.

With the last four then we are are most of the top causes of death
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath#datasets

Wind in the "health at every size" set and that probably also knocks out diabetes and stroke.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> Can I get a list of medical conditions I am not allowed to joke about, use in turns of phrase, reference in a story or similar?
> 
> Cripple is a long standing one it seems.
> 
> ...


Fast6191 it all depends on the context you are using the jokes for. If you are using something like dementia to constantly attack someone who may or may not have it then that is just a cheap and somewhat scummy thing to do.

If you are simply pointing out someone is not fit for the job they have because they have dementia then that's fine but here in this very thread we have had several posts that go way beyond that and that is not right. As you know Fast my mum has Primary progressive aphasia dementia some of the comments I have seen have personally hurt me because I have seen the sheer destruction dementia does to someone and its not nice and should not be used against someone to make fun of them.

I can't see under any circumstance where jokes about suicide can be seen as acceptable but that's just me I guess.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

So what's everybody's thoughts on the Kraken?


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So what's everybody's thoughts on the Kraken?


I would not pin your hopes it going anywhere considering the amount of mistakes in it. Looking over it quickly she misspells her key expert's name twice — his name is William Briggs, she calls him "Williams Briggs" and "William Higgs and thats just in the first few sentences


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I would not pin your hopes it going anywhere considering the amount of mistakes in it. Looking over it quickly she misspells her key expert's name twice — his name is William Briggs, she calls him "Williams Briggs" and "William Higgs and thats just in the first few sentences


75 pages on Michigan alone and you focus on a typo. Wow.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 75 pages on Michigan alone and you focus on a typo. Wow.


The whole thing is full of typos which no other lawyer  would have used until it was proof read and its full of fake information. Also no lawyer in America would present a document with so many pages at this stage. There is about 60 pages of information that is not relevant. Ect ect

Its all discussed here 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lawand...msy-rambling-typo-filled-kraken-lawsuits/amp/


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The whole thing is full of typos which no other lawyer  would have used until it was proof read and its full of fake information. Also no lawyer in America would present a document with so many pages at this stage. There is about 60 pages of information that is not relevant. Ect ect
> 
> Its all discussed here
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/lawand...msy-rambling-typo-filled-kraken-lawsuits/amp/


Don’t forget when she thinks it’s fraud because she claims the ballot paper was suspiciously clean.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 75 pages on Michigan alone and you focus on a typo. Wow.


It's a document about Michigan?  Based on the content I would've thought it was her Pirates of the Caribbean fanfic.


----------



## g00s3y (Nov 26, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> That depends on your point of view. I found it to be 165 pages of dumb Liberals proving just how stupid they are.



No, it's a fact, not a point of view. Facts are something trump supporters don't understand.

Like spelling, or math, or grammar, or science, or history, or anything education related.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 26, 2020)

g00s3y said:


> No, it's a fact, not a point of view. Facts are something trump supporters don't understand.
> 
> Like spelling, or math, or grammar, or science, or history, or anything education related.



Wasn't the USA recently ranked at 29th in the world for education. You might wanna sit this one out champ with your holier than thou bullshit attitude.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Wasn't the USA recently ranked at 29th in the world for education. You might wanna sit this one out champ with your holier than thou bullshit attitude.


The picture looks a lot more grim than that if you divide up the statistics by state and compare them to the world.  It's indisputable that red states in the majority rank lower than blue states for quality of education and overall education level.  The GOP already hated intellectualism and higher education even before Trump came along, after all.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> 75 pages on Michigan alone and you focus on a typo. Wow.


maybe that's what @realDonaldTrump was really talking about when he said the number of cases will soon be down to zero https://t.co/NRHO4hfGqK— George Conway🌻 (@gtconway3d) November 26, 2020


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The picture looks a lot more grim than that if you divide up the statistics by state and compare them to the world.  It's indisputable that red states in the majority rank lower than blue states for quality of education and overall education level.  The GOP already hated intellectualism and higher education even before Trump came along, after all.


Then you realize that science class discusses evolution and the idea of more than two genders. Yeah, there's probably a reason.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Then you realize that science class discusses evolution and the idea of more than two genders. Yeah, there's probably a reason.


Lol .. in my class they talk bout the civil rights moment as “trouble times ahead” and still referred 49 states.. sounds like your a little behind


----------



## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Wasn't the USA recently ranked at 29th in the world for education. You might wanna sit this one out champ with your holier than thou bullshit attitude.


29th and doesn't breath confidence in the 2016 President Elect


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 26, 2020)

g00s3y said:


> No, it's a fact, not a point of view. Facts are something trump supporters don't understand.
> 
> Like spelling, or math, or grammar, or science, or history, or anything education related.



Yes, in fact, it is. Just because you confuse your personal opinions with facts doesn't mean the rest of us are that dumb.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

I know I called Fauci a quack, but this may have been his only good observation.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Then you realize that science class discusses evolution and the idea of more than two genders. Yeah, there's probably a reason.


Exactly, the reason is that conservatives prefer to remain close-minded and uneducated.  Or rather, their puppetmasters prefer to keep them that way.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Exactly, the reason is that conservatives prefer to remain close-minded and uneducated.  Or rather, their puppetmasters prefer to keep them that way.


Imagine thinking that the belief reality of there being only two genders is an example of idiocy.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I know I called Fauci a quack, but this may have been his only good observation.
> View attachment 235604


Funny I can't seem to find that actual quote from Fauci himself, but then again you've posted a lot of false shit lately so this is probably some other bit of untrue garbage you found on some meme site. 

On the note of not wearing a mask, which he did say, he even regrets saying that now because he didn't know at the time that the virus could be asymptomatic in people, funny how that never gets mentioned by you guys. Even funnier when you want to believe memes and "your family" and memes over someone who has handled multiple diseases and possible pandemics in similar fashion. 

Finally, imagine actually fucking trying to spread anti-vaccine nonsense as well....

Take a page out of Bobby Bushay's book. Go to college and stop listening to what "Mama Said".


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> the virus could be asymptomatic in people


For the last time.
If most people who have it don't even realize it, it's not a big deal.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> For the last time.
> If most people who have it don't even realize it, it's not a big deal.


Since you like to bring it up a lot there are people that can carry around the flu and other viruses as well without showing symptoms of having said disease, so I guess those aren't big deals either.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Imagine thinking that the belief reality of there being only two genders is an example of idiocy.


Imagine thinking that a social construct is some holy, unalterable law handed down by god.  You're thinking of sex, there are two *sexes*.  Your gender can be whatever you want it to be, and the list of possible sexual orientations is only slightly more restrictive than that.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Since you like to bring it up a lot there are people that can carry around the flu and other viruses as well without showing symptoms of having said disease, so I guess those aren't big deals either.


No, they're not.


Xzi said:


> Imagine thinking that a social construct is some holy, unalterable law handed down by god.  You're thinking of sex, there are two *sexes*.  Your gender can be whatever you want it to be, and the list of possible sexual orientations is only slightly more restrictive than that.


Come to think of it, who was the guy who thought up the idea that sex and gender weren't inherently linked? I think his name was...uh...*John Money*.


----------



## morvoran (Nov 26, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Finally, imagine actually fucking trying to spread anti-vaccine nonsense as well....



Imagine wanting to take a vaccine that's 95% effective when not taking a vaccine is 99% effective...


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Come to think of it, who was the guy who thought up the idea that sex and gender weren't inherently linked? I think his name was...uh...*John Money*.


I don't know who that is, but if it's some conservative douchebag, you can probably assume he wasn't the first person to think of it.  We were _just_ discussing how anti-intellectual conservatives are.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I don't know who that is, but if it's some conservative douchebag, you can probably assume he wasn't the first person to think of it.  We were _just_ discussing how anti-intellectual conservatives are.


Here's a comic.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No, they're not.


Funny, you've made such a fuss about the flu being so much more deadly than covid in this (and other topics) and how we should be much more worried about it, but now that it doesn't suit your argument it's "not that big of a deal".


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Here's a comic.


So if I'm reading into this correctly, the lesson is that you should stop being so obsessed about gender and let people live their fucking lives?  Oh right, I forgot there aren't any conservatives left who believe in personal liberty.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Funny, you've made such a fuss about the flu being so much more deadly than covid in this (and other topics) and how we should be much more worried about it, but now that it doesn't suit your argument it's "not that big of a deal".


I'm not changing my argument. The flu is around as deadly as COVID, and neither is a big deal.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> So if I'm reading into this correctly, the lesson is that you should stop being so obsessed about gender and let people live their fucking lives?  Oh right, I forgot there aren't any conservatives left who believe in personal liberty.


I mean he thought up the idea of gender based on nonsensical and immoral studies but okay.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I mean he thought up the idea of gender based on nonsensical studies but okay.


Did I not just say that gender is a fabricated social construct, and therefore has no real limits in regard to what the term might encompass?  In other words: yes, it basically means nothing except to the person defining themselves as a given gender.  For normal people it's not at all hard to treat everyone with empathy, common decency, and a modicum of respect.  It only seems to be as painful as getting teeth pulled for conservatives for some reason.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 26, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Did I not just say that gender is a fabricated social construct, and therefore has no real limits in regard to what the term might encompass?  In other words: yes, it basically means nothing except to the person defining themselves as a given gender.


So what you're saying is gender doesn't exist.

This, I can agree with, if it's interpreted the right way. "Gender" is a nonsense word made up by insane people to justify the fact that they want to be called women despite their chromosomes saying otherwise. The only real thing that can be compared to gender is biological sex.


Xzi said:


> For normal people it's not at all hard to treat everyone with empathy, common decency, and a modicum of respect.  It only seems to be as painful as getting teeth pulled for conservatives for some reason.


I don't lie.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 26, 2020)

I think it would be great if we wiped out the flu by treating covid seriously.  That's hopeful thinking and the responsibility of the people.  The perceived attack on the first amendment is arguably feeding the frenzy--resulting in worse of an outcome.  You can blame politics but that might end up distracting you from your ability of taking care of yourself.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 26, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So what you're saying is gender doesn't exist.


No more or less than any other social construct does.  It exists in our minds as a means by which to define or judge a person, consciously and/or subconsciously, to whatever degree we choose.



UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't lie.


Bruh.  Who you tryin' to fool.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 27, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Come to think of it, who was the guy who thought up the idea that sex and gender weren't inherently linked? I think his name was...uh...*John Money*.


Why do you keep bringing up this pedophile scum who forced a boy to transition without his consent and then forced the boy to have sex with his brother  whilst money took pictures of said act? Your obsession with him is rather worrying.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.

Interesting article from Johns Hopkins.  It seems like it was removed, but the facts of the article are publicly available and should be easy enough to cross-check.







If this is the case, we can make the argument that life is killing everyone.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.
> 
> Interesting article from Johns Hopkins.  It seems like it was removed, but the facts of the article are publicly available and should be easy enough to cross-check.
> 
> ...


lol it was discredited by the John Hopkins, stated it used incorrect data and not valid ( plus it was created by the student center *Yanni Gu -Assistant *and not a real professor)
https://twitter.com/JHUNewsLetter/status/1332100136152035330?s=20
"The article “A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19,” published in the Science & Technology section on Nov. 22, has been deleted. 'Though making clear the need for further research, the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic. We regret that this article may have contributed to the spread of misinformation about COVID-19."

 This seem to spread like wild fire in far right circles and quickly debunked I guess we can tell  where @tabzer spends all his time and gets his info..


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol it was discredited by the John Hopkins, stated it used incorrect data and not valid ( plus it was created by the student center *Yanni Gu -Assistant *and not a real professor)
> https://twitter.com/JHUNewsLetter/status/1332100136152035330?s=20
> "The article “A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19,” published in the Science & Technology section on Nov. 22, has been deleted. 'Though making clear the need for further research, the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic. We regret that this article may have contributed to the spread of misinformation about COVID-19."
> 
> This seem to spread like wild fire in far right circles and quickly debunked I guess we can tell  where @tabzer spends all his time and gets his info..



How was it debunked exactly?  Is there something wrong with the actual data?  What is it?



djpannda said:


> lol it was discredited by the John Hopkins, stated it used incorrect data and not valid



You need to support this statement, because the tweet and what you are saying are different things.


----------



## notimp (Nov 27, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Imagine wanting to take a vaccine that's 95% effective when not taking a vaccine is 99% effective...


Yes, and imagine vaccine costing 6 USD or even 25 USD a pop! (Actual prices of different manufacturers.)

Why would anyone in the EU spend 2.7 billion (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-vaccines-idUSKBN23J20S) on developing them, AND give out purchase guarantees? At that price, and with not getting them being more effective - when will taxpayers ever see that money back?

*sarcasm*


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How was it debunked exactly?  Is there something wrong with the actual data?  What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> You need to support this statement, because the tweet and what you are saying are different things.


I have, as it was listed on the John Hopkins  twitter account .. which I quoted and linked ... guess you did not check huh?
https://twitter.com/JHUNewsLetter/status/1332100136152035330?s=20
"The article “A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19,” published in the Science & Technology section on Nov. 22, has been deleted. 'Though making clear the need for further research, the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic. We regret that this article may have contributed to the spread of misinformation about COVID-19."


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

djpannda said:


> the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic.



This does not state anything being wrong or inaccurate with the article itself--which you took the extra step of doing.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This does not state anything being wrong or inaccurate with the article itself--which you took the extra step of doing.


lol the denial is strong with you ...

Though making clear the need for further research, the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic. We regret that this article may have contributed to the spread of misinformation about COVID-19.— JHU News-Letter (@JHUNewsLetter) November 26, 2020

*"the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic"*


----------



## rensenware (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This does not state anything being wrong or inaccurate with the article itself--which you took the extra step of doing.


It is a tweet. There is no room for an in depth review of the issues in that space, your highness, though I'm sure I can find a more in depth source.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

So they don't like how the article is being used.  Surprise.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So they don't like how the article is being used.  Surprise.


yup big Universities tend  don't like it when *Assistants, use their paper for right far right propaganda . lol Strange right? Universities only want to published information with valid info lolol*


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yup big Universities tend  don't like it when *Assistants, use their paper to right far right propaganda . lol Strange right? Universities only want to published information with valid info lolol*


They didn't dispute what was righted.

They disputed what people dood--ya know, after.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> They didn't dispute what was righted.
> 
> They disputed what people dood--ya know, after.


sure, im pretty sure they did not dispute it because It was not worth editing Far right *propaganda and rather just remove it completely. *


----------



## rensenware (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> They didn't dispute what was righted.
> 
> They disputed what people dood--ya know, after.


https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/09/01/comorbidities-and-coronavirus-deaths-cdc/

According to JHU themselves, there HAS been a spike in overall deaths this year. Many cases with comorbitities, which in most cases do not count towards the covid death total but which the virus greatly contributed to, are important to be looked at.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/09/01/comorbidities-and-coronavirus-deaths-cdc/
> 
> According to JHU themselves, there HAS been a spike in overall deaths this year. Many cases with comorbitities, which in most cases do not count towards the covid death total but which the virus greatly contributed to, are important to be looked at.



Thanks!

I have a problem with the term excess deaths, which is used everywhere in these articles.


Number of excess deaths: A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero.
So negative values are set to zero.  That will certainly pump numbers up.  The article I linked didn't refer to the obfuscation of a term as its foundation for measurements. I still don't think it's unreasonable to expect JHU to explain what was exactly being misrepresented in the context of the article. 

I'm having trouble navigating CDC's website to find the data, but https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate shows this:

Year Rate Change
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%
2017 8.580 1.240%
2016 8.475 1.270%

Of course I don't know the facts, but you should be able to see the reason of my skepticism in accepting numbers that were calculated to give only positive results as a design.



djpannda said:


> yup big Universities tend  don't like it when *Assistants, use their paper for right far right propaganda . lol Strange right? Universities only want to published information with valid info lolol*


So what was factually inaccurate about the article.  Are facts far right propaganda?  I can see how it would be used to promote the idea that Covid doesn't exist, which is dangerous, but you are saying it was "debunked" and it wasn't.

Genevieve Briand is the *Assistant* *Director* for MS in Applied Economics program. She has many years of experience teaching numerous and varied economics and statistics courses. She received her *PhD* from Washington State University.  Top tier propagandist. Almost your level @djpannda


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So what was factually inaccurate about the article.  Are facts far right propaganda?  I can see how it would be used to promote the idea that Covid doesn't exist, which is dangerous, but you are saying it was "debunked" and it wasn't.
> 
> 
> Genevieve Briand is the *Assistant* *Director* for MS in Applied Economics program. She has many years of experience teaching numerous and varied economics and statistics courses. She received her *PhD* from Washington State University.  Top tier propagandist. Almost your level @djpannda


 Ok you to know the article was created by students not professors
even the link you provided states “Published by the Students of Johns Hopkins” and the article was written by
*Yanni Gu sophomore at Johns Hopkins University (who is Majoring in German) *
Ok at what point you guys stop grasping at straws to prove you point.. it’s like quoting  a article between the lunch menu and prom IN A HIGH SCHOOL paper “


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Ok you to know the article was created by students not professors
> even the link you provided states “Published by the Students of Johns Hopkins” and the article was written by
> *Yanni Gu sophomore at Johns Hopkins University (who is Majoring in German) *
> Ok at what point you guys stop grasping at straws to prove you point.. it’s like quoting  a article between the lunch menu and prom IN A HIGH SCHOOL paper “



No it's not.  The newsletter is operated by students.  Briand, the professor, is the source.  The data is referenced and sourced to CDC.  You fail to demonstrate any understanding of what's being said--instead you use the word "debunked" in a moronic way.


----------



## djpannda (Nov 27, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No it's not.  The newsletter is operated by students.  Briand, the professor, is the source.  The data is referenced and sourced to CDC.  You fail to demonstrate any understanding of what's being said--instead you use the word "debunked" in a moronic way.


Sure.. I apologized.. please keep using a article that was disowned by the University who published it... I bet your the type to use old and out of date science text book to prove the earth is 9000 years old and leeches help diseases of the blood


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Sure.. I apologized.. please keep using a article that was disowned by the University who published it... I bet your the type to use old and out of date science text book to prove the earth is 9000 years old and leeches help diseases of the blood




The CDC data is still there, and the facts are not disputed.  The ones you bring up in your moronic response already have been disputed/debunked.  Please stop talking stupidly.

The fallacy in the use of "excess death" as a baseline for calculating pandemic severity.


This is an example to demonstrate the logical fallacy, and aren't based on real statistics:






So even in the event there are less deaths in 2020, we can still report of 350 excess deaths in 2020.

350 excess deaths, which is a 22%  increase!  Where is all this excess death coming from?  Well, we can blame Covid because that's the only thing new in 2020.  (Something the NYTimes would probably say--the reputable source who would never mislead you.)

This is not to say that Covid is not dangerous, and that we should not be doing everything we can to prevent spreading it.  My only point in sharing this is to point out how the statistics aren't user friendly (or even meaningful, possibly), and they are being used as the reference point to make the pandemic easier to sell--which I personally do not think is helpful in containing it.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 27, 2020)

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1332387662045515778
LMAO


----------



## Xzi (Nov 27, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1332387662045515778
> LMAO


This is a Trump judge smacking them down hard, mind you.  Now they're on to the Supreme Court, which will refuse to hear the case and let the appeals court ruling stand.  Supreme Court justices can still be impeached, and Trump appointees are all about self-preservation, even more so than your typical politician.  Not to mention: the Trump team is basically fighting for table scraps at this point.  Even if boofboy Kavanaugh and handmaid Barrett risked their hides to vote to overturn PA, along with the other conservative justices, Biden would still have well over the 270 EC votes needed to win.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 27, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1332387662045515778
> LMAO



It appears it wasn't even a fraud case.  It was just a case charging that PA wasn't following its own laws and the judge saying,"we are allowed to do that."


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 28, 2020)

*Milwaukee County presidential recount wraps up with Biden adding to his margin*
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...-wraps-up-biden-adding-his-margin/6428186002/


> Milwaukee County's recount of the presidential election vote tally came to an end Friday, *with Democratic President-elect Joe Biden adding 132 votes to his margin of victory* over President Donald Trump in Milwaukee County.



Congrats to President Trump for paying $1.5M for a recount in Milwaukee County, only to ADD 132 votes to Biden's lead there.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 28, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Milwaukee County presidential recount wraps up with Biden adding to his margin*
> https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...-wraps-up-biden-adding-his-margin/6428186002/
> 
> 
> Congrats to President Trump for paying $1.5M for a recount in Milwaukee County, only to ADD 132 votes to Biden's lead there.


 They should just start playing this every time trump loses a case in court at this point.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> They should just start playing this every time trump loses a case in court at this point.



I wish that played every time you die in a Soulsborne game, too.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 28, 2020)

How many recounts has there been, that only gave Biden even more votes?


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 28, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> How many recounts has there been, that only gave Biden even more votes?



Trump and the people who filed lawsuits over the election sure seem to be losing according to the leftist media. Leave it to the liberals to try to gloat over this situation when all the Conservatives want to know is if there was a fair election or not. I think that would be something both sides could agree upon.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Trump and the people who filed lawsuits over the election sure seem to be losing according to the leftist media. Leave it to the liberals to try to gloat over this situation when all the Conservatives want to know is if there was a fair election or not. I think that would be something both sides could agree upon.


Somebody tell this dingus that all the states having their vote certified in a timely manner and with minimal fuss is how you know the election was fair.  The only holdup has been Trump's ego, every Republican elections expert has said this was one of the most transparent and secure elections in modern history.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Somebody tell this dingus that all the states having their vote certified in a timely manner and with minimal fuss is how you know the election was fair.  The only holdup has been Trump's ego, every Republican elections expert has said this was one of the most transparent and secure elections in modern history.



Calling the most contentious election of American's recent history the most transparent and secure elections in modern history?  "Minimal fuss" over vote certifications.  Lol.  Minimal fuss is no fuss, and this election cycle has had the most fuss.  It's still being "fussed".  I don't know if everyone in America agrees with you (probably not), but over here nobody is really sure about the US election.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Calling the most contentious election of American's recent history the most transparent and secure elections in modern history?


Again: it was only contentious because Trump is an egomaniacal wannabe-despot with a cult of personality backing him.  There was never any actual evidence of fraud presented by his team, just a whole lot of grasping at straws.  Sound and fury signifying nothing.

He wanted the count to stop in certain states when he was ahead, and continue in others where he might have a shot at a comeback.  In other words: Trump and his cult were never interested in free and fair elections to begin with, they just wanted to be sure _they'd_ be the beneficiaries of any cheating, if any was going to occur at all.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Again: it was only contentious because Trump is an egomaniacal wannabe-despot with a cult of personality backing him.



That's besides the point.  Even if it is only Trump causing it, he has done a fine job muddying up the clarity all by himself.  



Xzi said:


> There was never any actual evidence of fraud presented by his team, just a whole lot of grasping at straws.



Evidence "presented by his team".  There is enough evidence to cause doubt in a significant amount of people.  So far, we have seen the people on the opposing side of the aisle of those claims resist an open investigation.  I understand, that's not their job/burden.  Doesn't mean that the optics have no reach.  



Xzi said:


> Sound and fury signifying nothing.



I can't remember a single thing Trump has done that he hasn't used as leverage for something else.  A little premature to make such a claim, on your part.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's besides the point. Even if it is only Trump causing it, he has done a fine job muddying up the clarity all by himself.


Right...which is why it's best not to take his toddler tantrums too seriously.  He's been doing it for the last four years.



tabzer said:


> Evidence "presented by his team". There is enough evidence to cause doubt in a significant amount of people.


These are the same people that would believe Voldemort is real if Trump told them so.  That's what a cult of personality is.  They're going through the various stages of grief after having lost the election, and continuing to grasp on to the fantasy of voter fraud is classic denial with a bit of bargaining mixed in.



tabzer said:


> So far, we have seen the people on the opposing side of the aisle of those claims resist an open investigation.


No, no we haven't.  There haven't been any investigations because you need something to base an investigation on, it's as simple as that.  Such as, "holy shit there are a lot of irregularities in these 100,000 votes, we need to start an investigation into that."  There's been nothing like that discovered, despite Trump people being in every room where votes were being counted (and recounted) around the country.



tabzer said:


> I can't remember a single thing Trump has done that he hasn't used as leverage for something else. A little premature to make such a claim, on your part.


Biden's already receiving the presidential briefing, and Trump has less than two months left in office.  There's nothing left to "leverage," even his own judges have abandoned him.  He's just going to pardon some more of his corrupt buddies, and try to break as much shit as possible on his way out of the White House, like the petty bitch he is.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Right...which is why it's best not to take his toddler tantrums too seriously. He's been doing it for the last four years.



It's "best to ignore Trump."  Is an opinion where the reality is a contradiction.



Xzi said:


> These are the same people that would believe Voldemort is real if Trump told them so. That's what a cult of personality is. They're going through the various stages of grief after having lost the election, and continuing to grasp on to the fantasy of voter fraud is classic denial with a bit of bargaining mixed in.



That is not true.  I'm talking about people who can only witness and not influence the election.  But it also looks like you had personally decided on a conclusion way before the antics even began.  You have no frame of mind to be objective.



Xzi said:


> No, no we haven't. There haven't been any investigations because you need something to base an investigation on, it's as simple as that. Such as, "holy shit there are a lot of irregularities in these 100,000 votes, we need to start an investigation into that." There's been nothing like that discovered, despite Trump people being in every room where votes were being counted (and recounted) around the country.



Correct, not your burden.  Maybe you aren't interested because it only has potential of hurting you--unless looking good for doing it was on the table.  It seems like the latter is not a possibility, so that makes you look suspicious to the public, regardless of what the law demands.  It looks like it is pleading the 5th, not an attempt to represent this "transparency" you speak of.



Xzi said:


> Biden's already receiving the presidential briefing, and Trump has less than two months left in office. There's nothing left to "leverage," even his own judges have abandoned him. He's just going to pardon some more of his corrupt buddies, and try to break as much shit as possible on his way out of the White House, like the petty bitch he is.



Again, that's what someone who already made up their mind would count on, not what they can certainly astute.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

https://www.marklevinshow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/301/2020/11/Memorandum-Opinion-Filed.pdf

It looks like the evidence will be given a gander after all.  Whether it amounts to anything... we will have to wait to see.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's "best to ignore Trump." Is an opinion where the reality is a contradiction.


I didn't say ignore him, I said don't take him too seriously when he's whining like this.  He's used to always getting way due to being born wealthy.



tabzer said:


> That is not true. I'm talking about people who can only witness and not influence the election.


Those people also have biases and agendas, and their biases are particularly strong if they're willing to believe that millions of cases of voter fraud occurred despite evidence existing for only about ten of those cases.



tabzer said:


> You have no frame of mind be objective.


I literally opened this conversation by telling you that Republican elections experts gave this one the all clear.  Objectively, Trump is full of shit.  Objectively, this should not be surprising to you by now.



tabzer said:


> Correct, not your burden. Maybe you aren't interested because it only has potential of hurting you--unless looking good for doing it was on the table. It seems like the latter is not a possibility, so that makes you look suspicious to the public, regardless of what the law demands. It looks like it is pleading the 5th, not an attempt to represent this "transparency" you speak of.


No, you still aren't understanding.  Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans would be the ones to carry out an investigation, *IF THERE WERE ANY BASIS FOR ONE TO BEGIN WITH.*  It would be intelligence agencies, elections oversight officials, etc and so forth.  There is *no basis *for starting an investigation into mass voter fraud, which is why *even Republicans haven't pursued it.  *Lawsuits are their method of foregoing an investigation and trying to find a judge friendly to their nonsense cause, but so far even Trump appointees have basically said, "fuck off."



tabzer said:


> Again, that's what someone who already made up their mind would count on, not what they can certainly astute.


No, those are just the facts.  I'm not sure if you're expecting a military coup to bail him out at the last second or what, but it ain't happening.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I didn't say ignore him, I said don't take him too seriously when he's whining like this. He's used to always getting way due to being born wealthy.



Yeah, being born wealthy is why everyone in the world is paying attention to him.  You are being disingenious.




Xzi said:


> Those people also have biases and agendas, and their biases are particularly strong if they're willing to believe that millions of cases of voter fraud occurred despite evidence existing for only about ten of those cases.



Biases and agendas?  So... skepticism of the "most transparent" election in modern history?  There has already been doubts brewing since the Bush vs Kerry election.  They were never settled either.  Everyone wonders how electronic voting can be secure, especially when the US Government is leaking something every other day.



Xzi said:


> I literally opened this conversation by telling you that Republican elections experts gave this one the all clear. Objectively, Trump is full of shit. Objectively, this should not be surprising to you by now.



Yeah.  An appeal to an authority that nobody already trusts.  Thanks.



Xzi said:


> No, you still aren't understanding. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans would be the ones to carry out an investigation, *IF THERE WERE ANY BASIS FOR ONE TO BEGIN WITH.* It would be intelligence agencies, elections oversight officials, etc and so forth. There is *no basis *for starting an investigation into mass voter fraud, which is why *even Republicans haven't done it. *Lawsuits are their method of foregoing an investigation and trying to find a judge friendly to their nonsense cause, but so far even Trump appointees have basically said, "fuck off."



Well, in elections, it's usually the losing side that says that "it was rigged" and the winning side saying "no it wasn't".  So far, both democrats and republicans have done it.  At what point in time is the "transparency" of elections going to be revealed?  When is a random nobody going to be able to see that the election was fair?



Xzi said:


> No, those are just the facts. I'm not sure if you're expecting a military coup to bail him out at the last second or what, but it ain't happening.



You can predict facts.  Cool!  AFAIK the military is already providing testimony in supporting evidence of a insecure election.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 28, 2020)

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news...anded-by-trump-increases-bidens-margin-650492

Well, uh... that's awkward.

And hilarious!

The Trump campaign spent $3 million in donor money to increase Biden’s lead by 132 votes. Works out to $22,727 per vote. https://t.co/SAoZ36uCDe— Yashar Ali 🐘 یاشار (@yashar) November 27, 2020


Spending $3MM to help further secure the win for the other dude. What a guy.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, being born wealthy is why everyone in the world is paying attention to him.


LMAO, well...a _certain_ type of person lends weight to the words and actions of an individual simply because they're wealthy.  In the US, we call them bootlickers.  Those people are far from comprising* "everyone in the world," or Biden wouldn't have won by over ten million votes.



tabzer said:


> So... skepticism of the "most transparent" election in modern history? There has already been doubts brewing since the Bush vs Kerry election. They were never settled either. Everyone wonders how electronic voting can be secure, especially when the US Government is leaking something every other day.


You mean Bush v. Gore, which was extremely close and came down to a single state.  The type of paper ballot used in the 2000 election has long since been replaced, and 2020 was nowhere near that close, either.  Additionally, I'm also skeptical about electronic voting machines, but that's part of why this election was so secure: it was mostly conducted through paper, mail-in ballots.



tabzer said:


> Yeah. An appeal to an authority that nobody already trusts. Thanks.


Well, if Trump can't even trust his own party, maybe _they_ rigged the election against him. 



tabzer said:


> Well, in elections, it's usually the losing side that says that "it was rigged" and the winning side saying "no it wasn't".


Wrong, Trump did the same thing in 2016.  He called the election rigged beforehand, and then won.  Had he lost he would've continued to whine about it being rigged, as he's doing now.



tabzer said:


> You can predict facts.


I don't have to, Trump has already behaved in this manner since losing the election, so it's easy to predict he'll continue to behave this way.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 28, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Trump and the people who filed lawsuits over the election sure seem to be losing according to the leftist media. Leave it to the liberals to try to gloat over this situation when all the Conservatives want to know is if there was a fair election or not. I think that would be something both sides could agree upon.


If there was actually any evidence of widespread voter fraud, sure. Instead we got things such as, people claiming fraud before any evidence. Wanting some places to arbitrarily stop counting and other places to keep counting. Trump claiming victory, despite voting being nowhere near finished. 

Court cases being thrown out even by the most right wing judges. With the only "evidence" left being conspiracy theories, yeah I think people have room to gloat.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> LMAO, well...a _certain_ type of person lends weight to the words and actions of an individual simply because they're wealthy. Those people are far from compromising "everyone in the world," or Biden wouldn't have won by over ten million votes.



What?  Say that again, but this time use English.  Compromising "everyone in the world"?  Do you mean comprising?  I think you are confused.  It appears you aren't even making a point.



Xzi said:


> You mean Bush v. Gore, which was extremely close and came down to a single state. The type of paper ballot used in the 2000 election has long since been replaced, and 2020 was nowhere near that close, either. Additionally, I'm also skeptical about electronic voting machines, but that's part of why this election was so secure: it was mostly conducted through paper, mail-in ballots.



Ah.  You are right.  It was Bush vs Gore.  I remember Diebold machines being a source of contention, and later being proven to be hackable--making the inclusion of even more electronic voting machines to be such a dumbfounding outcome.  As far as mail-in ballots are concerned, Trump said that signatures weren't being verified.  What's your opinion?  



Xzi said:


> Well, if Trump can't even trust his own party, maybe _they_ rigged the election against him.



Trump never "trusted" his own party, from the beginning.  Optics are that he played the party.  Stop being disingenuous please.



Xzi said:


> Wrong, Trump did the same thing in 2016. He called the election rigged beforehand, and then won. Had he lost he would've continued to whine about it being rigged, as he's doing now.



I said "usually", as I was removing Trump from the equation to account for history as he is full of unprecedented actions.



Xzi said:


> I don't have to, Trump has already behaved in this manner since losing the election, so it's easy to predict he'll continue to behave this way.



You are predicting outcomes.  That's what it is by definition.  To say "I don't have to" is another point where you are being disingenuous.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What? Say that again, but this time use English. Compromising "everyone in the world"? Do you mean comprising? I think you are confused. It appears you aren't even making a point.


Yeah you got me there, didn't even notice that mistake myself.  Obviously you were able to get the meaning through context nonetheless.



tabzer said:


> As far as mail-in ballots are concerned, Trump said that signatures weren't being verified. What's your opinion?


Signatures are always verified, but it's an imprecise science anyway.  People's signatures can change based on date, time, the weather, their mood, etc.



tabzer said:


> Trump never "trusted" his own party, from the beginning. Optics are that he played the party.


I dunno whose optics...the GOP nominated him.  He governed very much like a typical neocon.



tabzer said:


> You are predicting outcomes.


The only outcome that mattered was the outcome of the election.  His sphere of influence and options are next to nil now that he's lost.  So how about you tell me: what "leverage" does going 1-38 in election court cases grant him, exactly?  And particularly during a lame duck session?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yeah you got me there, didn't even notice that mistake myself. Obviously you were able to get the meaning through context nonetheless.



Okay.  I really wasn't sure.  Comprising makes the most sense, so we agree now.  So, now, you would have me to believe that opposition isn't paying attention to him?




Xzi said:


> Signatures are always verified, but it's an imprecise science anyway. People's signatures can change based on date, time, the weather, their mood, etc.



Imprecise science I understand.  I don't understand the vetting process of selecting ballot counters, state to state, and I have no way to know that signatures are being verified.  Of course, it seems like it should be done, but how can we verify, *or even trust, that when photos of the witnesses show the witnesses being too far away?



Xzi said:


> I dunno whose optics...the GOP nominated him. He governed very much like a typical neocon.



Okay.  You are calling Trump "typical".  It was the media that got him elected, making him to appear like someone who could put pressure on the GOP instead of conforming to it.



Xzi said:


> The only outcome that mattered was the outcome of the election. His sphere of influence and options are next to nil now that he's lost. So how about you tell me: what "leverage" does going 1-38 in election court cases grant him, exactly? And particularly during a lame duck session?



But he didn't lose, and he seems to be exercising all of his options before the electorate college votes.  There is a saying that it's not over until the fat lady sings.  Maybe that's Trump in this case?  So that brings me to another point.  Would this end even if Biden assumes office?  To me, America would look like it is becoming less transparent and more of a shell.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So, now, you would have me to believe that opposition isn't paying attention to him?


Pretty much.  Dems are focused on Biden's transition and short term policy goals for his administration, not worrying about Trump's latest tantrum.



tabzer said:


> Imprecise science I understand. I don't understand the vetting process of selecting ballot counters, state to state, and I have no way to know that signatures are being verified. Of course, it seems like it should be done, but how can we verify, *or even trust, that when photos of the witnesses show the witnesses being too far away?


It's mostly just volunteers for each side (and possibly some Independents), though they are of course under threat of the full force of the law if they're caught doing anything remotely suspect.  Witnesses getting up and walking around may be doing so for a number of reasons: to check against other records, or check for irregularities in the latest batch of votes, for example.



tabzer said:


> Okay. You are calling Trump "typical". It was the media that got him elected, making him to appear like someone who could put pressure on the GOP instead of conforming to it.


I think Republican media actually disliked him more than Democratic media in 2016, but they didn't portray him any sort of way, they just gave him free air time with no commentary.  It was a means by which to ignore Bernie Sanders' skyrocketing campaign.  Regardless, as president he turned the GOP into one giant pyramid scheme for funneling money into his own pockets, it doesn't get much more neoconservative than that.



tabzer said:


> But he didn't lose, and he seems to be exercising all of his options before the electorate college votes.


He's exercising his *last* option in terms of states that aren't certified, which is PA, in a race where Biden piled up 306 EC votes.  We don't need to wait on ceremony to know who won.



tabzer said:


> Would this end even if Biden assumes office? To me, America would look like it is becoming less transparent and more of a shell.


That was among Trump's objectives: to sew doubt in our democracy and democratic process.  Thankfully it didn't seem to have worked very well, or at least not well enough to suppress the vote to the point of giving him a chance at re-election.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 28, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Imagine wanting to take a vaccine that's 95% effective when not taking a vaccine is 99% effective...



sure you've got a 1% chance of dying from covid, but what about damage that doesn't kill you? we know that covid causes damage to your kidney's and testicles? what about the growing numbers of long haulers that survived covid but are fucked up for the foreseeable future?

The vaccine has a 95% chance of stopping ALL covid complications. I mean, i guess you're not using your testicles anyways so might as well put them at risk. Neuter yourself to own the libs!


----------



## tabzer (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Pretty much. Dems are focused on Biden's transition and short term policy goals for his administration, not worrying about Trump's latest tantrum.



What I am seeing is a different point of view.  Yes, the media seems to show as little about him as possible, and focusing on posturing Biden as the next President, but I still see two sides fighting over the rhetoric, and many people who do not know what's going to happen.  As far as I can sincerely say, Trump is the most influential person in the world right now.  The point that this came up was because you seemed to suggest that people only paid attention to him because he was rich, but he's president of the US, and that alone makes him the center of attention over here.  The fact that he is so outrageous makes him interesting.



Xzi said:


> It's mostly just volunteers for each side (and possibly some Independents), though they are of course under threat of the full force of the law if they're caught doing anything remotely suspect. Witnesses getting up and walking around may be doing so for a number of reasons: to check against other records, or check for irregularities in the latest batch of votes, for example.



Has there ever been a case were a poll worker was confronted with the full force of the law for being caught doing something remotely suspect?  I wasn't talking about witnesses getting up and walking around.  I'm talking about when they forced to be 5-6 feet apart from the poll workers, due to "social distancing", but the poll workers are stationed directly next to each other.



Xzi said:


> I think Republican media actually disliked him more than Democratic media in 2016, but they didn't portray him any sort of way, they just gave him free air time with no commentary. It was a means by which to ignore Bernie Sanders' skyrocketing campaign. Regardless, as president he turned the GOP into one giant pyramid scheme for funneling money into his own pockets, it doesn't get much more neoconservative than that.



Everything I saw or heard of him were mainly from Democratic sources, and they made him appear like the GOP couldn't control him, that he was a wild card, which I think helped him cultivate his base.  The more that the media said he had no chance, the more his base became motivated.



Xzi said:


> He's exercising his *last* option in terms of states that aren't certified, which is PA, in a race where Biden piled up 306 EC votes. We don't need to wait on ceremony to know who won.



Okay, I think you are underestimating.  I personally need to see the finale before I am satisfied. 



Xzi said:


> That was among Trump's objectives: to sew doubt in our democracy and democratic process. Thankfully it didn't seem to have worked very well, or at least not well enough to suppress the vote to the point of giving him a chance at re-election.



I think it's crazy to assume that America is becoming more transparent than ever through this election, unless you mean that ironically.


----------



## smf (Nov 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Thankfully it didn't seem to have worked very well, or at least not well enough to suppress the vote to the point of giving him a chance at re-election.



It's gaining traction in PA where the state senator is trying to get the result overturned.

Even though their basis for doing so is a lie. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pa-mailin-votes-ballots/



"This is what you get when you have an army colonel in the state senate"

I gotta question whether that means army colonels are corrupt or just dumb?

If it's just PA then it's not enough. If some other dumb/corrupt republicans get on board then Trump could steal the election from the american people.

Surely someone should have the guts to correct him, in case he is just thick.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 28, 2020)

smf said:


> It's gaining traction in PA where the state senator is trying to get the result overturned.
> 
> Even though their basis for doing so is a lie. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pa-mailin-votes-ballots/
> 
> ...




Not that im saying you're wrong, but please send me to a non partisan fact checker who isnt a DNC shrill, Snopes has to be the worst of the lot.


----------



## smf (Nov 28, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Not that im saying you're wrong, but please send me to a non partisan fact checker who isnt a DNC shrill, Snopes has to be the worst of the lot.



https://www.snopes.com/2015/04/17/eye-of-the-beholder/

_Are we Republicans or Democrats? Conservatives or liberals? Administration supporters or a secretly-funded tool of the opposition? According to our readership, we’re all those things — from what they tell us, we’ve performed the remarkable feat of being decidedly biased in every possible direction:
_
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...e-mail-ballots-werent-counted-pennsylvania-c/
https://lancasteronline.com/news/po...cle_4f2a853a-1fa1-11eb-aec2-3371757b7a34.html

It's kinda ironic there is a higher standard required of fact checkers than of the elected representatives.


----------



## Xzi (Nov 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The point that this came up was because you seemed to suggest that people only paid attention to him because he was rich, but he's president of the US, and that alone makes him the center of attention over here. The fact that he is so outrageous makes him interesting.


The GOP would not have nominated and elected him if he wasn't rich.  He basically spews the same conspiracy theories as crazy homeless people, and his base would all spit on him and keep walking if he were penniless.



tabzer said:


> Has there ever been a case were a poll worker was confronted with the full force of the law for being caught doing something remotely suspect?


I'm sure there has been, just like we get around ten cases of voter fraud per election.  A couple of individuals mucking about is never of much consequence, though, and poll workers aren't really in a position to commit more wide-scale election fraud, either.



tabzer said:


> Everything I saw or heard of him were mainly from Democratic sources, and they made him appear like the GOP couldn't control him, that he was a wild card, which I think helped him cultivate his base. The more that the media said he had no chance, the more his base became motivated.


People disliked Hillary more than they disliked Trump, that's all 2016 came down to.  They were both bad candidates.



tabzer said:


> Okay, I think you are underestimating.


Underestimating what?  You still haven't given even the vaguest of clues what rabbit you think Trump could pull out of a hat at this stage in the game, when his administration has already allowed Biden's transition to begin.



tabzer said:


> I think it's crazy to assume that America is becoming more transparent than ever through this election, unless you mean that ironically.


It certainly didn't become any _less_ transparent, everybody watched the same votes being counted in real time, and our intelligence agencies didn't throw up any red flags like they did in 2016.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 28, 2020)

smf said:


> https://www.snopes.com/2015/04/17/eye-of-the-beholder/
> 
> _Are we Republicans or Democrats? Conservatives or liberals? Administration supporters or a secretly-funded tool of the opposition? According to our readership, we’re all those things — from what they tell us, we’ve performed the remarkable feat of being decidedly biased in every possible direction:
> _
> ...



Are you being serious, a fake news shrill defending themselves is like Jack the Ripper fact checking if he's a murderer. Nevermind


----------



## smf (Nov 28, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Are you being serious, a fake news shrill defending themselves is like Jack the Ripper fact checking if he's a murderer. Nevermind



If both sides are saying you are biased, then you aren't biased.

You seem more biased than them.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 28, 2020)

smf said:


> If both sides are saying you are biased, then you aren't biased.
> 
> You seem more biased than them.



I'm bias lol I never claimed to be neutral or some sort of mediator like they claim too be, and no. Nobody on the left is claiming they're bias. It's a leftwing shithole, hence why you linked to their bias bs. all good.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 28, 2020)

Just read a whole load of old tweets by Trump criticising the amount of times Barack Obama played golf in the 8 years he was president. Which is hilarious because in the 8 years Obama played golf 333 times. Trump in his less than 4 years as president has played golf  301 times since becoming President, and that's as of Nov. 27, 2020.

Does Trump not even realize the amount of shit he talks.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I'm bias lol I never claimed to be neutral or some sort of mediator like they claim too be, and no. Nobody on the left is claiming they're bias. It's a leftwing shithole, hence why you linked to their bias bs. all good.



As I said, you only claim they are biased because you are biased. The more you protest they are biased, the more you prove me right.

If you had some evidence they were biased, or even that they were wrong then you would give it.

All you have is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

You should hold all evidence, whether you believe it or not, to the same standard.



AmandaRose said:


> Just read a whole load of old tweets by Trump criticising the amount of times Barack Obama played golf in the 8 years he was president. Which is hilarious because in the 8 years Obama played golf 333 times. Trump in his less than 4 years as president has played golf  301 times since becoming President, and that's as of Nov. 27, 2020.
> 
> Does Trump not even realize the amount of shit he talks.



Trump is only interested in manipulating people to his own ends, therefore he can take contrary positions if it achieves that goal at a particular time. Facts aren't important. The problem with someone so low on morals is even if you believe in whatever story he's feeding you today, he could walk all over you tomorrow.

For example, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 29, 2020)

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/202...ismisses-mike-kelly-and-sean-parnell-request/


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/202...ismisses-mike-kelly-and-sean-parnell-request/



That case was preventing them from stealing the election for Trump.

http://levittownnow.com/2020/11/28/...t-by-pa-lawmakers-to-pick-pro-trump-electors/


----------



## jeffyTheHomebrewer (Nov 29, 2020)

question: when will he officially be the president? my google home still says that trump is the president


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 29, 2020)

jeffyTheHomebrewer said:


> question: when will he officially be the president? my google home still says that trump is the president



Inauguration Day is when Biden will become the President of the United States of America. Right now he hasn't even won the election as the Electoral College hasn't voted yet.  Biden is only projected to be the winner. He hasn't officially won yet. Your Google Home is correct.


----------



## ut2k4master (Nov 29, 2020)

jeffyTheHomebrewer said:


> question: when will he officially be the president? my google home still says that trump is the president


january 20th, noon


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 29, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> Insulting other members in this forum is against the rules?
> 
> 
> Did Biden's plan includes phasing out the SSDI? Does he have something better to replace it with? Or perhaps beef up the SSI to match that to SSDI? I'm curious.


 here's your answerers biden's gonna reverse damage trump did to SSI/DI and even beef it up

https://joebiden.com/disabilities/#


----------



## omgcat (Nov 29, 2020)

gonna be interesting once people realize you cannot introduce evidence in an appeal. all of these cases that have been thrown out can be appealed, but only on the original evidence.

if these cases keep getting thrown out like they are, none of them can ever get to the SCOTUS.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...eme-court-b1763372.html?utm_source=reddit.com


----------



## tabzer (Nov 29, 2020)

omgcat said:


> gonna be interesting once people realize you cannot introduce evidence in an appeal. all of these cases that have been thrown out can be appealed, but only on the original evidence.
> 
> if these cases keep getting thrown out like they are, none of them can ever get to the SCOTUS.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...eme-court-b1763372.html?utm_source=reddit.com




*Presuming *that there is actual evidence to prove widespread fraud charges on a national level, I assume that these cases that are being thrown out aren't intended to win or lose.  They are intended to introduce doubt over validity of the election results into the courtroom and to invoke the respective judges to make a position on the matter.  That way, after widespread fraud is proven beyond a doubt (via completely different federal case), the positions that the judges made can be used for political rhetoric to make those judges look bad and to force them out in their next election cycle--assisting Trump in making America more autocratic, and expeditious for his goals.  This is a wild theory, and will be proven right or wrong in time.  It seems like something Trump would do if he, or allies, really had damning evidence.


----------



## omgcat (Nov 29, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *Presuming *that there is actual evidence to prove widespread fraud charges on a national level, I assume that these cases that are being thrown out aren't intended to win or lose.  They are intended to introduce doubt over validity of the election results into the courtroom and to invoke the respective judges to make a position on the matter.  That way, after widespread fraud is proven beyond a doubt (via completely different federal case), the positions that the judges made can be used for political rhetoric to make those judges look bad and to force them out in their next election cycle--assisting Trump in making America more autocratic, and expeditious for his goals.  This is a wild theory, and will be proven right or wrong in time.  It seems like something Trump would do if he, or allies, really had damning evidence.



all that's gonna happen is people losing their law license. these people can't claim "widespread fraud" because it doesn't exist. they keep getting thrown out of court (1 win to 39+ losses). if they make that claim without evidence they can and will be punished with either censure or disbarment. the most recent case had a 0-3 ruling with all three of the judges being republican. if we are lucky, the GOP will split right in half between the oldschool GOP and the new Trumplicans (Trump only republicans), killing the party for the foreseeable future. it is plainly evident when you see stuff like

* Trump Supporters in Georgia Ask RNC Chair Why They Should Vote in Runoffs When System Is 'Rigged'.*

The republicans are facing conflicting realities.

reality 1:

all elections are being cheated, so why should i bother voting?

or

reality 2:

the coming runoff elections are not cheated, and by extension neither was the presidential election.

both realities cannot exist, one must be picked, but both are shitty for Trumplicans.

we are basically seeing what happened to the Whig party, with it splitting and because first past the post makes it mathematically impossible for there to be 3 parties, the one that splits loses to the party that didn't by default.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 29, 2020)

omgcat said:


> all that's gonna happen is people losing their law license. these people can't claim "widespread fraud" because it doesn't exist.



Okay.  You might be right that widespread fraud doesn't exist.  But saying that it doesn't exist and that there's not enough supporting evidence to prove it exists are two distinct things.  You can't prove something doesn't exist, unless you are able to revamp the whole system to a level of transparent that can convince every skeptical person--which will probably never ever happen.  Even if you think it is reasonable to assume that the system's flaws doesn't outweigh its ability to function, there are going to be people who disagree with you.



omgcat said:


> they keep getting thrown out of court (1 win to 39+ losses). if they make that claim without evidence they can and will be punished with either censure or disbarment.



All of those cases have at least some bullshit quantifier of "evidence" though it's not nearly enough to prove anything other than there is a doubt/contention--which seems to be the intent.




omgcat said:


> the coming runoff elections are not cheated, and by extension neither was the presidential election.
> 
> both realities cannot exist, one must be picked, but both are shitty for Trumplicans.



If the elections are rigged, they have to be restructured in a way that appeases the aggrieving parties before they would vote again.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 29, 2020)

Speaking of "wide-spread voter fraud"...

*Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees*
https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/1...ture-government-coordinating-council-election


> WASHINGTON – The members of Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee – Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Assistant Director Bob Kolasky, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair Benjamin Hovland, National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS) President Maggie Toulouse Oliver, National Association of State Election Directors (NASED) President Lori Augino, and Escambia County (Florida) Supervisor of Elections David Stafford – and the members of the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council (SCC) – Chair Brian Hancock (Unisyn Voting Solutions), Vice Chair Sam Derheimer (Hart InterCivic), Chris Wlaschin (Election Systems & Software), Ericka Haas (Electronic Registration Information Center), and Maria Bianchi (Democracy Works) - *released the following statement:*





> *“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history*. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result."





> *"There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised"*.





> “Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020."





> “While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”


Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1332831164499898369


----------



## tabzer (Nov 29, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> ...we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.


I find humor in this kind of thing.  It's like the trademark thing that is said of a company or institution as it is facing a hacking crisis.  It's kind of a platitude at this point.  I'd personally be more interested in something that could demonstrate a proof of resistance or a solution that didn't hide behind closed-source devices hooked up to the internet.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

omgcat said:


> gonna be interesting once people realize you cannot introduce evidence in an appeal. all of these cases that have been thrown out can be appealed, but only on the original evidence.



And why don't you think a biased republican judge couldn't just reverse the decision on the original evidence?

It might be a smoke screen to rile the republican senators into ignoring the vote, like in pennsylvania.

The are forced to act because of overwhelming fake manufactured evidence from fake Trump and fake Rudy.
Trumps legal team hope to repeat that elsewhere. All you need to do is find some dumb republican senators.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> As I said, you only claim they are biased because you are biased. The more you protest they are biased, the more you prove me right.
> 
> If you had some evidence they were biased, or even that they were wrong then you would give it.
> 
> ...



https://www.dailywire.com/news/fact-check-snopes-biased-read-fact-check-erica-james-barrett

https://medium.com/@Dissension/how-snopes-lies-and-misleads-readers-2b06f4cab9b4

https://newspunch.com/snopes-caught-lying-for-hillary-again-questions-raised/

ok bro

Naturally, google wouldn't link to any of these. I had to use an actual good search engine with no lefty bias


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Naturally, google wouldn't link to any of these. I had to use an actual good search engine with no lefty bias



So righty biased search engine finding righty biased articles that claim snopes lied without evidence.

This is a particularly tortured thought process. "The accusation that what she did was unethical is ignorant, but Snopes’ deceitful and misleading denial of what she did is just partisan spin."

_Similarly ridiculous is Snopes’ claim that Hillary “did not assert that the complainant ‘made up the rape story.’” She pleaded that her client was not guilty, meaning that she argued in court that he didn’t rape the victim._

It means no such thing, it sounds like the person who wrote that doesn't understand the law or what lawyers do. Forwarding a not guilty plea from a client does not mean anything, other than the client said they were not guilty.

I'll stick to google, it seems to have much more reliable results based on reality rather than fantasy. It gives me less lies to debunk.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> So righty biased search engine finding righty biased articles that claim snopes lied without evidence.
> 
> This is a particularly tortured thought process. "The accusation that what she did was unethical is ignorant, but Snopes’ deceitful and misleading denial of what she did is just partisan spin."
> 
> ...



One was hiding results, the other wasn't. Remind me whos bias again? Going round in circles. I like how you dismiss the articles as "righty spin" but when i point out Snopes is lefty bullshit i have to bow at that altar.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 29, 2020)

shamzie said:


> One was hiding results, the other wasn't. Remind me whos bias again? Going round in circles. I like how you dismiss the articles as "righty spin" but when i point out Snopes is lefty bullshit i have to bow at that altar.


And yet snopes is concidered to be center by the respected website allsides who rate if a site is left or right by reviewing all content on the site.  So hardly lefty bullshit as claimed. 

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/snopes


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 29, 2020)

shamzie said:


> i have to bow at that altar.


But yet you want people to bow down to your altar or you declare that the source is "lefty". 

Very hypocritical to get mad at someone being biased (even if they aren't)  when you yourself are already very biased as well and will ignore any sources that you don't agree with.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

shamzie said:


> One was hiding results, the other wasn't. Remind me whos bias again? Going round in circles. I like how you dismiss the articles as "righty spin" but when i point out Snopes is lefty bullshit i have to bow at that altar.



Right wing deranged articles spouting lies about snopes are easily dismisable.

Please in future use less biased fact checkers


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 29, 2020)

shamzie said:


> One was hiding results, the other wasn't. Remind me whos bias again? Going round in circles. I like how you dismiss the articles as "righty spin" but when i point out *Snopes is lefty bullshit* i have to bow at that altar.



*cough* *bullshit* *cough*

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/snopes/


>





>


*Analysis / Bias*


> In 2012, FactCheck.org reviewed a sample of Snopes’ responses to political rumors regarding George W. Bush, Sarah Palin, and Barack Obama, and *found them to be free from bias in all cases*. *Critics of the site have made the false claim that the website is funded by billionaire philanthropist George Soros, which has been debunked many times* as they are funded through advertising and donations, in which they disclose.





> In review, Snopes was previously a signatory of the International Fact Checking Network (IFCN) that is run by the Poynter Institute. Snopes was independently verified by the IFCN, which lists its core principles as: “non-partisanship and fairness, transparency of sources, transparency of funding and organization, transparency of methodology, and open and honest corrections policy.” They met these criteria, along with 50+ other fact-checkers world wide. However, as of 2019 they are no longer affiliated with the IFCN.





> *Snopes always openly sources their information and avoids emotional wording*, though they do occasionally publish news stories that offer some opinions. *Snopes is frequently accused of liberal bias by some on the right*. For example, the Daily Express of the UK and the Daily Caller have both criticized them for fact checks they felt were wrong or biased against the right. According to research performed by Real Clear Politics in the article: Snopes and Editorializing Fact Checks, they determined that out of the six fact-checkers working with Facebook, “that Snopes is the least likely to fact-check matters of opinion.” This is important because opinion is something that cannot be fact-checked. The article went on to say “We have found that since we started our project, Snopes has fact-checked opinions only 2 percent of the time. In other words, 98 percent of the time it sticks to matters of verifiable fact. Such an achievement is even more remarkable given that during this period, they produced the second-most articles of the six fact-checking outfits.”





> *A review of their fact checks indicates that they are properly sourced and factual, however, when it comes to political fact checks they check Republicans more often. This may not be due to bias, but rather that the President frequently makes controversial claims* and Republicans control the Senate.





> *The Snopes website also features original news reporting that is again factual and properly sourced.* From an editorial perspective, slightly more stories are favorable to the left such as this: Founders: Removal from office is not the only purpose of impeachment. This story is republished from The Conversation. In fact, many stories are republished from The Conversation. *Original reporting such as this Is Trump Withdrawing Deportation Protections for Families of Active Troops? is low biased, factual, and properly sourced* to left-leaning sources such as NPR and the New York Times as well as Government sources.





> *Overall, we rate Snopes on the left side of Least Biased* based on infrequent stories that favor the left. *We also rate them High for factual reporting based on transparency and proper sourcing of information*. (D. Van Zandt 7/10/2016) Updated (01/11/2020)



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> *Right wing deranged articles* spouting lies about snopes are easily dismisable.
> 
> Please in future use less biased fact checkers


Or as I like to call 'em:

*Reich-wing*


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *cough* *bullshit* *cough*
> 
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/snopes/
> 
> ...


Media Bias Fact Check is biased themselves.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Media Bias Fact Check is biased themselves.



Your post about Media Bias Fact Check's bias towards Snopes' bias is biased


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Your post about Media Bias Fact Check's bias towards Snopes' bias is biased


I guess you think Biden is right-wing?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Or that fascism or national socialism is a right-wing ideology?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I guess you think Biden is right-wing?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Or that fascism or national socialism is a right-wing ideology?



Where did I ever say anything about any of that


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Media Bias Fact Check is biased themselves.


Biased toward facts.  Biased against bullshit.

Two perfectly good reasons for UltraSUPRA not to trust them.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Biased toward communism.  Biased against Trump.
> 
> Two perfectly good reasons for UltraSUPRA not to trust them.


FTFY


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 30, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Biased toward facts.  Biased against bullshit.
> 
> Two perfectly good reasons for UltraSUPRA not to trust them.


Also consider this from the same kid that brought us and believes: 

Hand sanitizers are communist ideals in disguise.
The nazi party wasn't right wing. 
People are being required to have masks on inside homes and during sex.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> The nazi party wasn't right wing.


I'm not wrong, am I?


Everything else comes from the fact that I wasn't paying attention to the memes I was posting.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> FTFY


Damn, all these courts that he is losing cases in where there are judges appointed by trump or the GOP must be secretly ran by communist too.....

Kid, you need to learn that just because someone is against trump or conservatives doesn't make them a communist.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> FTFY


This is *precisely* why Reich-wingers don't like bias\fact checkers:


> *Half of Trump supporters believe in QAnon conspiracy theory's baseless claims, poll finds*
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...upporters-believe-baseless-claims/3725567001/





> *Poll: 70 percent of Republicans don’t think the election was free and fair*
> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488





> *List of conspiracy theories promoted by Donald Trump*
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories_promoted_by_Donald_Trump


----------



## gizmomelb (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Or that fascism or national socialism is a right-wing ideology?



Fascism by it's very definition is far-right authoritarian ultra-nationalism.
Socialism by it's definition is far left.

Nationalism itself is not bad but like everything, when it is taken to extremes then it can be very bad.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm not wrong, am I?
> 
> 
> Everything else comes from the fact that I wasn't paying attention to the memes I was posting.


Don't do that "I wasn't paying attention to what I was posting" BS dude, you knew exactly what you posted or you wouldn't have purposefully searched for something that agreed with your narrative and then posted in on here. 

You can't get upset that people are treating you like a fool after you acted like one. 

And yes, the Nazi party was and still is very much a right wing organization with right wing beliefs. The fact that you have to even ask that is possible the most astounding (not in a good way) question you have asked. 

Again, homeschool clearly isn't working for you....


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 30, 2020)

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1333193510477045763
P.S.  Trump is the first presidential candidate in history* to lose recounts in two different states*.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> And yes, the Nazi party was and still is very much a right wing organization with right wing beliefs. The fact that you have to even ask that is possible the most astounding (not in a good way) question you have asked.


National Socialism. Right-wing.

That's hilarious.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm not wrong, am I?



You are wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Position_within_the_political_spectrum



UltraSUPRA said:


> Everything else comes from the fact that I wasn't paying attention to the memes I was posting.



So by your own admission, you're a gullible sheep that doesn't think for himself, and instead blindly follows the beliefs and thoughts of others.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> So by your own admission, you're a gullible sheep that doesn't think for himself, and instead blindly follows the beliefs and thoughts of others.


Hypocrite.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Hypocrite.



What on earth is hypocritical about what I said? Do you know what the word "hypocrite" means?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> National Socialism. Right-wing.
> 
> That's hilarious.


Yeah it is pretty hilarious that you didn't know that.


----------



## DKB (Nov 30, 2020)

Fucking cringe that people are still questioning if Donald Trump lost/Joe Biden won.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> What on earth is hypocritical about what I said? Do you know what the word "hypocrite" means?


You called me a sheep, yet you blindly follow the media.


SonowRaevius said:


> Yeah it is pretty hilarious that you didn't know that.


Do you know who Giovanni Gentile is?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You called me a sheep, yet you blindly follow the media.



Do tell how I blindly follow the media. I'd love to hear your explanation.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Do tell how I blindly follow the media. I'd love to hear your explanation.


Do you support COVID restrictions? Do you like the idea of socialism? Did you vote for Biden?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Do you support COVID restrictions? Do you like the idea of socialism? Did you vote for Biden?



Whoa whoa whoa, you said I blindly follow the media. Tell me how. No asking questions.


----------



## Chary (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Do you support COVID restrictions? Do you like the idea of socialism? Did you vote for Biden?


I'll play the game. What if the answers are yes, no, no? Does that still equal being a sheep? Despite what Americans seem to want to believe, politics aren't black and white teams.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Hypocrite.
> View attachment 235977


Dang you're able to find and locate @Sicklyboy in the millions of pictures and thousands of people. Good eye.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Do you know who Giovanni Gentile is?


You mean the guy that was praised by Mussolini and helped develope the Nazi Puppet state of The Republic of Salo and was taken out by anti-fascists? What about him?

Can't wait to see what revisionist history mama told you about this time.


----------



## SG854 (Nov 30, 2020)

Chary said:


> I'll play the game. What if the answers are yes, no, no? Does that still equal being a sheep? Despite what Americans seem to want to believe, politics aren't black and white teams.


That's the problem with these people. They are not debating that actual person they are speaking to. They are creating an image in their head of what the person is like based on assumptions and projecting that false image & assumptions on to the person they are debating. And instead, they are arguing with a made up person they invented in their head. That's why he linked that picture accusing @Sicklyboy of being a hypocrite even though Sicklyboy is not in the picture.

Considering the fact that people call Trump supporters racist, because racists are people that generalize a group as if they are all the same this guy isn't do himself any favors trying to get rid of this negative image of a Trump supporter with his generalizations.


----------



## seany1990 (Nov 30, 2020)

SG854 said:


> this guy isn't do himself any favors trying to get rid of this negative image of a Trump supporter with his generalizations.


I would say his completely moronic, embarrassing posts are hindering peoples perception of trump supporters more than any generalisations he makes could.


----------



## KingVamp (Nov 30, 2020)

Chary said:


> I'll play the game. What if the answers are yes, no, no? Does that still equal being a sheep? Despite what Americans seem to want to believe, politics aren't black and white teams.


Even if you said yes to all of those, doesn't mean you blindly follow the media. That is, if you even follow the media that they keep posting at all.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

Chary said:


> I'll play the game. What if the answers are yes, no, no? Does that still equal being a sheep? Despite what Americans seem to want to believe, politics aren't black and white teams.


Replace the media with quacks and the answer is yes.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Replace the media with quacks and the answer is yes.



That's an entirely nonsensical answer, and doesn't answer my question at all. How do I blindly follow the media? Stick to one story, don't try to switch it up like that, that's dishonest.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Nov 30, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> That's an entirely nonsensical answer, and doesn't answer my question at all. How do I blindly follow the media? Stick to one story, don't try to switch it up like that, that's dishonest.


I'll answer your question if you answer mine.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'll answer your question if you answer mine.



No, that's not how that works. You're making a claim out of nowhere that I blindly follow the media. It's not my job to make your argument for you. That's your job. You make an argument, you back it up, champ.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> One was hiding results, the other wasn't. Remind me whos bias again? Going round in circles. I like how you dismiss the articles as "righty spin" but when i point out Snopes is lefty bullshit i have to bow at that altar.



"It's a conspiracy!". Except it's not and you are lying...

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=the+wire+erica+thomas+snopes+bias

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=how+snopes+lies+and+misleads+readers

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=new+punch+snopes+caught+lying+for+hillary


----------



## Chary (Nov 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Replace the media with quacks and the answer is yes.


Replace quacks with potatoes and you've solved world hunger. What?

So, unless someone follows your exact viewpoint, they're a sheeple to media, doctors, socialism, or what have you?


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 30, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> "It's a conspiracy!". Except it's not and you are lying...
> 
> http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=the+wire+erica+thomas+snopes+bias
> 
> ...



"Letmeusegooglethebigtechcompanyknownforcenshorship.com" yeah they can totally be trusted to be down the middle.


 

Here’s another scummy company casually placing a Donald trump documentary among side the likes of hitler and nazi stuff. Because that’s totally normal, I’m sure it’s just yet another algorithm mistake. Like the one on google that only showed negative Trump stories and positive Biden ones in the run upto the election. ITS ALL A COINCIDENCE.


----------



## AmandaRose (Nov 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> "Letmeusegooglethebigtechcompanyknownforcenshorship.com" yeah they can totally be trusted to be down the middle.
> 
> View attachment 236010
> 
> Here’s another scummy company casually placing a Donald trump documentary among side the likes of hitler and nazi stuff. Because that’s totally normal, I’m sure it’s just yet another algorithm mistake. Like the one on google that only showed negative Trump stories and positive Biden ones in the run upto the election. ITS ALL A COINCIDENCE.


Hardly surprising when his biggest fan base are neo nazi's and white nationalists is it.


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 30, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Hardly surprising when his biggest fan base are neo nazi's and white nationalists is it. View attachment 236011



Ahh there we go. Imagine dismissing this scummy move by netflix because your perceived world view is they're all neo nazi white surpremacists. You're a muppet. You're calling over 70m people nazi's and think It's fine. Get a grip. I guess everybody who supports Biden is a pedo, hopefully when they release his documentary they put it in the middle of Gary Glitters and Rolf Harris' because thats how stupid your point is.


----------



## smf (Nov 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Here’s another scummy company casually placing a Donald trump documentary among side the likes of hitler and nazi stuff.



The neo nazi's like Trump and he has the same Totalitarian desire as Hitler.

So I don't think it's wrong to draw comparisons.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ttesville-virginia-donald-trump-a7892171.html

Quite why you would be an apologist for any of these people is beyond me.



gizmomelb said:


> Nationalism itself is not bad but like everything, when it is taken to extremes then it can be very bad.



Isn't it by definition taken to extremes?

Nationalism: identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, *especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.*

Outside of sports, it's always going to be a very bad idea. Sure you'll be pumped with adrenaline at how you screwed over all other countries, but at best it's a zero sum game. You're likely to lose more in the long run.


----------



## mammastuffing (Nov 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> "Letmeusegooglethebigtechcompanyknownforcenshorship.com" yeah they can totally be trusted to be down the middle.



You claimed that Google was censoring the things you searched for. And I just demonstrated that you were wrong, didn't I?



shamzie said:


> Here’s another scummy company casually placing a Donald trump documentary among side the likes of hitler and nazi stuff. Because that’s totally normal, I’m sure it’s just yet another algorithm mistake. Like the one on google that only showed negative Trump stories and positive Biden ones in the run upto the election. ITS ALL A COINCIDENCE.



Do you know why they are placing them among each other?

(Edit: I'm asking honestly, because I don't know myself.)


----------



## Doran754 (Nov 30, 2020)

smf said:


> The neo nazi's like Trump and he has the same Totalitarian desire as Hitler.
> 
> So I don't think it's wrong to draw comparisons.
> 
> ...



Honestly when you start your sentence off by comparing Trump to Hitler you lose all credibility, I shouldn't even reply to you. Your world view is warped. But I'll reply anyway.

You dont think It's wrong because you have TDS. You're more than happy to brand everyone nazi's without thinking how it might affect Jews, or anyone else for that matter. When you so easily brandish people as nazi's you demean the word. But im not surprised because like everyone on the left you're selfish scum. See how easy and wrong it is to generalise a whole group of people. You dont seem to have a problem with it though so why not. Yeah im sure any holocaust survivors love seeing assclowns like you branding people nazis.


----------



## smf (Nov 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Honestly when you start your sentence off by comparing Trump to Hitler you lose all credibility, I shouldn't even reply to you. Your world view is warped. But I'll reply anyway.



When you say you can't compare Trump to Hitler you lose all credibility.
I can compare a ford to a ferrari, they aren't equal but they have similar traits.

Like this.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...s-inside-same-bunker-of-defeat-and-disbelief/

Trump would rather burn the USA to the ground than admit defeat. Despite his protests, he has proved without a shadow of a doubt that he doesn't have enough objectivity to determine whether there was fraud or not. If anything his tantrums have made it less likely to detect if there was fraud. But he is so triggered with shame and fear that he can't help himself.



shamzie said:


> But im not surprised because like everyone on the left you're selfish scum



It's the left who want to share the wealth.

You appear to have disconnected what words mean and how they make you feel.
You aren't selfish because that's a bad word, but you want all the money for yourself because that makes you feel good.

You aren't biased because that's a bad word, but you think that everyone should like Trump because he and his white supremacist supporters make you feel good.

There is no hope for you as you can't cope with reality.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 30, 2020)

smf said:


> When you say you can't compare Trump to Hitler you lose all credibility.
> I can compare a ford to a ferrari, they aren't equal but they have similar traits.



Oh cool.  This game.  You remind me of Trump.  Except you do not seem to care about Jews.



smf said:


> It's the left who want to share the wealth.



The left wants to share my wealth, and his wealth.  But do they have wealth that they want to share?  People still want to believe in the "American Dream" and that is that they can earn wealth through innovation and honest work.  The left seems to want to surrender to the idea that corporations already rule the world, so lets spread everyone thin, while enabling the corporation to be in even more control of the wealth and the law.

For me, both extremes are bad.  But when you want to defend comparing someone to HItler, just make sure that you factor genocide into that equation and consider what that means.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

When I say "the left" I'm referring to the DNC, not honest liberals.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 30, 2020)

*Arizona certifies Biden as election winner, with Wisconsin following hours later*
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/arizona-wisconsin-election-certification-biden-trump


> President Trump suffered another setback in his push to overturn his defeat in the presidential election, as Arizona on Monday certified President-elect Joe Biden's victory in the state.  Hours after the certifying of the vote in Arizona, Wisconsin finalized their results,* becoming the last of the remaining contested battleground states to do so*.





> Pennsylvania, as well as the battlegrounds of Michigan, Nevada and Georgia, have also certified their election results over the past week and a half.


----------



## HollowGrams (Nov 30, 2020)

All an illusion.  Trump will step down as part of the plan.  This is all scripted and they are following the bible to a tee.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 30, 2020)

Hologram said:


> All an illusion.  Trump will step down as part of the plan.  This is all scripted and they are following the bible to a tee.


A+++++ comment!  Will read again!  Highly recommended!


----------



## omgcat (Nov 30, 2020)

Gov. Ducey sent trump to voice mail while certifying Arizona. i'm fucking dead.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1333535859153440769

A GOP gov put the president on mute, my mind is blown.


----------



## HollowGrams (Nov 30, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Gov. Ducey sent trump to voice mail while certifying Arizona. i'm fucking dead.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1333535859153440769
> 
> A GOP gov put the president on mute, my mind is blown.



Phoenix vs Dragons same ol' story.  The shift in energy is happening.


----------



## LumInvader (Nov 30, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Gov. Ducey sent trump to voice mail while certifying Arizona. i'm fucking dead.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1333535859153440769
> 
> A GOP gov put the president on mute, my mind is blown.


Trump was likely calling to protest the certification process armed with debunked conspiracy theories and loyalty demands.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 30, 2020)

trump has fucking lost


----------



## HollowGrams (Nov 30, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> trump has fucking lost



Trump didn't lose if he gets what he wants.  The plan is for him to lose btw.  This is all a show and many aren't even watching.


----------



## IncredulousP (Dec 1, 2020)

Hologram said:


> Trump didn't lose if he gets what he wants.  The plan is for him to lose btw.  This is all a show and many aren't even watching.


Oh ok so he's playing 8D chess and obviously winning.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 1, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Oh ok so he's playing 8D chess and obviously winning.


Well, he seems to think that the whole thing is a premeditated political opera in which winning the election is not apart of the score.


----------



## gizmomelb (Dec 1, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Oh ok so he's playing 8D chess and obviously winning.



well DUH!! Trump has so many pawns, he has ALL the pawns!


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 1, 2020)

gizmomelb said:


> well DUH!! Trump has so many pawns, he has ALL the pawns!


He was playing against himself this entire time. Mind blown.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 1, 2020)

*Scott Atlas, expert in the fields of anti-science, junk science, and pseudoscience, has resigned as special adviser to Trump:*
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...signs-from-coronavirus-task-force-11606782515


> “I worked hard with a singular focus—*to save lives and help Americans through this pandemic*,” Atlas wrote in his resignation letter





> He has been an outspoken critic of lockdowns *and a supporter of a “herd immunity” strategy*, and earlier this month was sharply criticized after tweeting that Michigan should “rise up” against coronavirus restrictions..


Good riddance.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 1, 2020)

Daaaaaaaaamn even good ol Billy Barr can't keep up the charade. I wonder why.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55153366

39 minutes ago at time of me posting this comment, "US Attorney General William Barr, a top ally of President Trump, has said the Justice Department has found no evidence of fraud in the 2020 election."


----------



## omgcat (Dec 1, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Daaaaaaaaamn even good ol Billy Barr can't keep up the charade. I wonder why.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55153366
> 
> 39 minutes ago at time of me posting this comment, "US Attorney General William Barr, a top ally of President Trump, has said the Justice Department has found no evidence of fraud in the 2020 election."



stick a fork in him, he's done. now watch him kill the rest of the GOP on his way out in spite. he already told GA voters to not bother voting.


----------



## notimp (Dec 2, 2020)

omgcat said:


> stick a fork in him, he's done. now watch him kill the rest of the GOP on his way out in spite. he already told GA voters to not bother voting.


src please

Opposite information:
https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-jr-georgia-runoff-ad-d20528eb-c172-44a8-b3e3-9af236a381af.html


----------



## yokomoko (Dec 2, 2020)

Biden won? Don't be so sure yet. Wait. And. See.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 2, 2020)

Some people still *believe* in elections.  There's no proof that an election happened.


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Dec 2, 2020)

ok cool


----------



## subcon959 (Dec 2, 2020)

At first I found it all a bit amusing, but once I realised the seriousness of it I'm kinda sad by how broken Americans seem to be. I wonder if this was always going to happen or if it's a result of the last 4 years?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 2, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> I'm kinda sad by how broken Americans seem to be. I wonder if this was always going to happen or if it's a result of the last 4 years?


that's what happens when you have a nut job as a president. all he ever did was post on twitter than go play golf!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 2, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> that's what happens when you have a nut job as a president. all he ever did was post on twitter than go play golf!


Blaming Trump for America?  Lol.  He was a symptom, not the cause.


----------



## subcon959 (Dec 2, 2020)

tabzer said:


> He was a symptom, not the cause.


What's the cause?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 2, 2020)

People's mounting frustration with America's political system. And that's a long story.


----------



## Kurt91 (Dec 2, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> What's the cause?


To be fair, a large number of people in rural areas feel as though the government doesn't give two shits about them, so when Trump campaigned and promised to pay attention to them and what they needed, they obviously were going to pay attention.

It was a couple years ago, so I don't have the exact source, but I remember seeing a documentary of some kind where they got a handful of Harvard students (the type of people who would be politicians or hold important jobs in the future) and took them to a rural town. They were surprised at how friendly the locals were, and had been convinced beforehand that all rural people were racist, horrible people. So, a lot of people in urban areas where politicians are traditionally campaign the most barely see rural Americans as even people.

If you want to prevent another person like Trump being elected, it would probably be in your best interest to look into the people who originally voted for him and why they did so. What needs did they have that the typical politicians weren't meeting up until that point to make them want to vote for Trump. Keep in mind that back in the 2016 election, all of the various scandals and issues hadn't happened yet, and the most bad publicity was an inappropriate statement that he had made during the campaign. Even after he was elected, the media jumped on him for things like preferring steak well-done with ketchup. (Whether you like it or not, that's not only a petty thing to get in an uproar about, but for rural people can be easily explained. When you're a kid and you eat mainly a parent's cooking, even if they're a horrible cook, you develop a taste for it and can still become nostalgic for it as an adult. Hell, my family was poor enough that some days our dinner was only mashed potatoes and country gravy, and it's still a favorite meal of mine as an adult.) Once the media cemented that they weren't going to see him in a positive light regardless of what he did, and belittle him for things as minor as food preferences, it made it easier to brush away any real scandals as the media demonizing him and at worst making major exaggerations over what were most likely much less serious things that most politicians would have probably done.


----------



## DevonTheRaymaniac (Dec 2, 2020)

I personally think the elections are rigged no matter who wins (I dislike both) and that they give presidency to the person who has more connections and damaging information. I think votes are just to give us the illusion of freedom and choice. I mean, after all the things that are coming out the government as tried to keep secret (covid) it's really hard for me to believe they genuinely care about us. Not to mention I think these two care more about the _power_ of the country rather than the _power_ of the people


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 2, 2020)

”We will not see diseases like the coronavirus come here… isn’t that refreshing when contrasting it with the awful presidency of President Obama?” — Kayleigh McEnany, 2/25/20 pic.twitter.com/dXKHAKGrUn— Matt Wilstein (@mattwilstein) October 5, 2020


Trump doubts the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate, yet he doesn't question how someone this stupid could have a Harvard Law School degree?


----------



## IncredulousP (Dec 2, 2020)

Kurt91 said:


> To be fair, a large number of people in rural areas feel as though the government doesn't give two shits about them, so when Trump campaigned and promised to pay attention to them and what they needed, they obviously were going to pay attention.
> 
> It was a couple years ago, so I don't have the exact source, but I remember seeing a documentary of some kind where they got a handful of Harvard students (the type of people who would be politicians or hold important jobs in the future) and took them to a rural town. They were surprised at how friendly the locals were, and had been convinced beforehand that all rural people were racist, horrible people. So, a lot of people in urban areas where politicians are traditionally campaign the most barely see rural Americans as even people.
> 
> If you want to prevent another person like Trump being elected, it would probably be in your best interest to look into the people who originally voted for him and why they did so. What needs did they have that the typical politicians weren't meeting up until that point to make them want to vote for Trump. Keep in mind that back in the 2016 election, all of the various scandals and issues hadn't happened yet, and the most bad publicity was an inappropriate statement that he had made during the campaign. Even after he was elected, the media jumped on him for things like preferring steak well-done with ketchup. (Whether you like it or not, that's not only a petty thing to get in an uproar about, but for rural people can be easily explained. When you're a kid and you eat mainly a parent's cooking, even if they're a horrible cook, you develop a taste for it and can still become nostalgic for it as an adult. Hell, my family was poor enough that some days our dinner was only mashed potatoes and country gravy, and it's still a favorite meal of mine as an adult.) Once the media cemented that they weren't going to see him in a positive light regardless of what he did, and belittle him for things as minor as food preferences, it made it easier to brush away any real scandals as the media demonizing him and at worst making major exaggerations over what were most likely much less serious things that most politicians would have probably done.


Yeah no. You can seem polite and be a racist, self-interested moron. My anecdote is that I too was surprised at how polite people in West Virginia and Indiana could be when I lived there. Didn't change the fact that these states are poor, highly obese, racist, and vote against their own interests. Seeing confederate flags hung everywhere and flown on trucks with "South will rise again" stickers doesn't really paint a good picture. Plus I'm white, I bet I wouldn't have been treated so nicely if I were black. They were highly underdeveloped with terrible infrastructure (broken streets, roads missing entire portions of concrete) and drug addicts littered every corner of town. Fuck rural America.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 2, 2020)

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1334207287632781313

The level of ineptitude here is mind-boggling, shameful, and downright embarrassing.  

For every Trumplican who's alleged wide-spread election fraud, always remember:

*1-40*


----------



## omgcat (Dec 2, 2020)

so i was at bestbuy yesterday getting a new SSD, and the guy two spots in line just had an absolute autistic fit. he was wearing his mask under his chin, and when it was his turn to go into the store the employee asked him to put it on. he started screaming about leftists, all of us being the same, and "I bet you voted for Biden didn't you". when security was called, he threatened to come back and put a bullet in all of our skulls. I made a statement to the police today. this shit is insane. I did end up getting my samsung 980 pro in the end.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 2, 2020)

omgcat said:


> so i was at bestbuy yesterday getting a new SSD, and the guy two spots in line just had an autistic fit. he was wearing his mask under his chin, and when it was his turn to go into the store the employee asked him to put it on. he started screaming about leftists, all of us being the same, and "I bet you voted for Biden didn't you". when security was called, *he threatened to come back and put a bullet in all of our skulls*.* I made a statement to the police today*. this shit is insane. I did end up getting my samsung 980 pro in the end.


omgcat is literally sweeping our streets clean of dangerous Trumplicans!


----------



## omgcat (Dec 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> omgcat is literally sweeping our streets clean of dangerous Trumplicans!


the fucking best buy employees don't deserve that shit. they're trying to pay rent and eat. I didn't deserve that shit cause I'm just trying to be able to use my PC for work.

also before "pics or it didn't happen"




 



I would have recorded a video, but i wasn't sure the guy didn't have a gun.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 2, 2020)

omgcat said:


> the fucking best buy employees don't deserve that shit. they're trying to pay rent and eat. I didn't deserve that shit cause I'm just trying to be able to use my PC for work.



If you ask some of the self-proclaimed first amendment experts on here, they'd argue that that guy should have been fully within his rights to make these terroristic threats against other people's lives. Because it's speech and all speech should be free speech.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

omgcat said:


> the fucking best buy employees don't deserve that shit.


No body deserves that kind of treatment just for doing their jobs.

It makes me truly sad that these people are essential workers who had to work during a crisis, but people continue to treat them like garbage because they low wage workers or because said people see their work as "beneath them".


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Yeah no. You can seem polite and be a racist, self-interested moron. My anecdote is that I too was surprised at how polite people in West Virginia and Indiana could be when I lived there. Didn't change the fact that these states are poor, highly obese, racist, and vote against their own interests. Seeing confederate flags hung everywhere and flown on trucks with "South will rise again" stickers doesn't really paint a good picture. Plus I'm white, I bet I wouldn't have been treated so nicely if I were black. They were highly underdeveloped with terrible infrastructure (broken streets, roads missing entire portions of concrete) and drug addicts littered every corner of town. Fuck rural America.




Do us all a favor and tell us what there interests are,  maybe there interests are keeping people like you from deciding that for them.  I vote against all types of things that you would claim are in my interest.  My interest is discouraging as many people as possible from moving here and limiting the potential number of people who are bothering me.

I know people down in town who voted against a safety level despite the fact they do need more police, and flat out stated "It's not worth $3 a month to stop these Californians from getting shot".

I just closed on my neighbors 40 acres just to make sure I don't have a out of state liberal anywhere near me.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> What's the cause?


Lack of education, primarily.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Kurt91 said:


> To be fair, a large number of people in rural areas feel as though the government doesn't give two shits about them, so when Trump campaigned and promised to pay attention to them and what they needed, they obviously were going to pay attention.
> 
> It was a couple years ago, so I don't have the exact source, but I remember seeing a documentary of some kind where they got a handful of Harvard students (the type of people who would be politicians or hold important jobs in the future) and took them to a rural town. They were surprised at how friendly the locals were, and had been convinced beforehand that all rural people were racist, horrible people. So, a lot of people in urban areas where politicians are traditionally campaign the most barely see rural Americans as even people.
> 
> If you want to prevent another person like Trump being elected, it would probably be in your best interest to look into the people who originally voted for him and why they did so. What needs did they have that the typical politicians weren't meeting up until that point to make them want to vote for Trump. Keep in mind that back in the 2016 election, all of the various scandals and issues hadn't happened yet, and the most bad publicity was an inappropriate statement that he had made during the campaign. Even after he was elected, the media jumped on him for things like preferring steak well-done with ketchup. (Whether you like it or not, that's not only a petty thing to get in an uproar about, but for rural people can be easily explained. When you're a kid and you eat mainly a parent's cooking, even if they're a horrible cook, you develop a taste for it and can still become nostalgic for it as an adult. Hell, my family was poor enough that some days our dinner was only mashed potatoes and country gravy, and it's still a favorite meal of mine as an adult.) Once the media cemented that they weren't going to see him in a positive light regardless of what he did, and belittle him for things as minor as food preferences, it made it easier to brush away any real scandals as the media demonizing him and at worst making major exaggerations over what were most likely much less serious things that most politicians would have probably done.




Trump vs Establishment isn't complicated.   It's populist Nationalism vs Open border globalism,  it's about people who want constant mass migration influx's vs people who feel were full.

Biden voters didn't really have much to consider from the grave.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

Interesting that this video isn't being reported by the media, no?


----------



## laudern (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Interesting that this video isn't being reported by the media, no?



Makes me feel very sad for the people who are going to be surprised when the sh*t hits the fan and all the evidence is released. They have been gaslighted by most of the media, but what makes it worse is that these people want the gaslighting to be the reality. When their bubble has finally been burst, they sadly won't be angry with the gaslighter, but instead the party that is showing them they have been subjected to gaslighting.

Have a look at this video to see the wheels starting to fall off the "unsubstantiated voter fraud" claim you see doing the rounds. 

https://fb.watch/28xWLwJpVU/


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

People want to feel normal and accepted.  People prey on that.  People prey on innocence.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

@CompassNorth 

Trump could still win the election.  Do you like them apples?


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

laudern said:


> Makes me feel very sad for the people who are going to be surprised when the sh*t hits the fan and all the evidence is released. They have been *gaslighted* by most of the media, but what makes it worse is that these people want the *gaslighting* to be the reality. When their bubble has finally been burst, they sadly won't be angry with the *gaslighter*, but instead the party that is showing them they have been subjected to *gaslighting*.
> 
> Have a look at this video to see the wheels starting to fall off the "unsubstantiated voter fraud" claim you see doing the rounds.
> 
> https://fb.watch/28xWLwJpVU/


*Allegation =/= Evidence*

This accuser has provided *no* evidence.  You have provided *no* evidence.  To date, the courts have yet to encounter *any such evidence* of wide-spread voter fraud; hence the Trumplicans humiliating *1-40* record in post-election litigation.


> *Gaslighting*
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





> Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment. It may evoke changes in them such as cognitive dissonance or low self-esteem, rendering the victim additionally dependent on the gaslighter for emotional support and validation. Using *denial*, *misdirection*, *contradiction*, and *misinformation*, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs.



For example:

1. *Denial*: Denying the outcome of the most "most secure [election] in American history."
2. *Misinformation*\*Misdirection\Contradiction*: Claiming the election was sabotaged by wide-spread voter fraud in absence of any such evidence.  Claiming the liberal media is conspiring in a gaslighting operation despite state courts, federal courts, FBI, DOJ, _annnnd_ federal oversight agencies (GCC & CISA) *unanimously agreeing with them*.

Sorry, but repeating the word "gaslighting" umpteen times in a primitive untruthful manner doesn't magically grant you a logical counter-argument to your side's appalling 1-40 post-election litigation record.  It only highlights how desperate you are.

See ya on January 20th!


----------



## laudern (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Allegation =/= Evidence*
> 
> This accuser has provided *no* evidence.  You have provided *no* evidence.  To date, the courts have yet to encounter *any such evidence* of wide-spread voter fraud; hence the Trumplicans humiliating *1-40* record in post-election litigation.
> 
> ...



Exhibit A

This is the exact type of guy I feel sorry for.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

laudern said:


> Exhibit A
> 
> This is the exact type of guy I feel sorry for.


I'm the type of guy who provided *facts* to successfully counter your conspiracy theory.  Your the type of guy who responds with personal attacks rather than the evidence necessary to support your wide-spread voter fraud allegation (there isn't any).
🚨WAR ROOM ALERT: Trump and his allies are 1-40 in court. pic.twitter.com/wMBwGuFtGt— Democracy Docket (@DemocracyDocket) December 2, 2020


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

*Allegation = There was an election.*


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

I legit can't even fathom how y'all are still going on and on with this voter fraud claim. Just give up.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

Easy.  Trump made an assertion that can only gain traction.  People have been shifting goal posts ever since.  You seem to be on the wrong page.  You are supposed to say,"it's too late," because everyone can see the fraud.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Easy.  Trump made an assertion that can only gain traction.  People have been shifting goal posts ever since.  You seem to be on the wrong page.  You are supposed to say,"it's too late," because everyone can see the fraud.


Hard to see any fraud when y'all still haven't given a single piece of evidence that doesn't crumble under any scrutiny in 5 seconds.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Hard to see any fraud when y'all still haven't given a single piece of evidence that doesn't crumble under any scrutiny in 5 seconds.


I mean, you can choose to look away from it.  That makes it hard to see.  AFAIK, it's the utter lack of scrutiny in which it has been dismissed.  You are using "scrutiny" ironically.  Scrutiny would be making mountains out of anthills.  The rulings have starkly been the contrary.  "Oh, fraud, well it doesn't seem to be enough to warrant any seriousness".

Learn English, while you have the advantage.  You might have to learn Chinese tomorrow.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

laudern said:


> Exhibit A
> 
> This is the exact type of guy I feel sorry for.



yes... your right
just because we have not won any really lawsuit YET.
Just because the Judges are throwing out our cases because we have not brought any really proof..
just because we have not presented any proof publicly or privately
just because We claimed that a President that has been dead for 8 years from a poor South American country stole the election
 Just because we are claiming that now North Korea brought fake ballots to Maine by a SUBmarine
Just because we are only claiming fraud in 6 states that Trump lost but not mentioning that 24 states have used the same system.

That does not mean We have lost!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Election fraud is only a allegation when your partisanship is stronger than your eyesight and common sense.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

More personal attacks from jimbo13, but no wide-spread voter fraud evidence.  Welcome back from suspension.  I sense another coming soon.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Election fraud is only a allegation when your partisanship is stronger than your eyesight and common sense.


Please let us know when your "kraken" lawyers stop making complete fools of themselves in post-election litigation.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Election fraud is only a allegation when your partisanship is stronger than your eyesight and common sense.


you do know that pic is Random people trying to enter the Polling place while screaming "stop the steal" .. Those were not legal or valid poll watchers ( we where Already inside.) 
What you are showing is a picture of a Screaming mob trying scare tatics to innocent poll workers..


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

The guy who gets suspended routinely is calling someone else a troll?



You had weeks during your suspension to come up with some evidence.  It's comical how you came back just as unprepared as you were when you left.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Please let us know when your "kraken" lawyers stop making complete fools of themselves in post-election litigation.



*Fact check: *This user has no attorney engaged in post-election litigation, please stop spreading false and inaccurate information.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check: *This user has no attorney engaged in post-election litigation, please stop spreading false and inaccurate information.


lol you are right, Trump "has no attorney engaged in post-election litigation, please stop spreading false and inaccurate information."
thank you,   your finally going thru the final stages of grief


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check: *This user has no attorney engaged in post-election litigation, please stop spreading false and inaccurate information.


*Fact check*: The conspiracy theories and fake election fraud evidence you've posted in this topic are more egregious examples of "false and inaccurate information."


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

Lol, the election is a conspiracy theory.  You can't have it both ways.  Are we to have faith in the election, or not?


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Fact check*: The conspiracy theories and fake election fraud evidence you've posted in this topic are more egregious examples of "false and inaccurate information."



Fact check:  I have posted no conspiracy theories or fake election fraud evidence.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check:  I have posted no conspiracy theories or fake election fraud evidence.


Fact check: just because someone says they are Terry Crews #1 Fan doesn't not mean anyone cares


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Fact check: just because someone says they are Terry Crews #1 Fan doesn't not mean anyone cares



They care more than the person who taught you grammar.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> They care more than the person who taught you grammar.


lol please tell us your views on how Trump won the election by posting all those FUNNY memes that get you suspended all those times.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check:  I have posted no conspiracy theories or fake election fraud evidence.



One of many examples of jimbo13 sharing a baseless conspiracy theory:


jimbo13 said:


> *Our elections are always rigged*, this is why there was media hysteria in 2016 because they were not expecting Trump to win so they didn't resort to rigging.
> 
> We have two parties engaged in controlled opposition to each other much like Pro Wrestlers, who control and keep third party and independent candidates out of the debates and off the ballot.
> 
> ...



One of many examples of jimbo13 sharing fake election fraud evidence:


jimbo13 said:


> Georgia Election Official: "We are going to find that people did illegally vote. That's going to happen. There are going to be double voters...That will be found."https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1325878377568493568?s=20



jimbo13's "fact checks" are parody which is why they're completely worthless.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

To his credit, he did post the Trump video that you pretend doesn't exist.  Also, chasing low-hanging fruit is not an evolutionary advantage.  So why do you do it?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> One of many examples of jimbo13 sharing a baseless conspiracy theory:
> 
> 
> One of many examples of jimbo13 sharing fake election fraud evidence:
> ...


Wait do you mean His not really Terry Crews #1 fan... I am appalled !


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> One of many examples of jimbo13 sharing fake election fraud evidence: jimbo13's "fact checks" are parody which is why they're completely worthless.



*Fact check:* that's not "fake evidence", that is a allegation that was made.   A allegation does not equate to "Fake evidence".


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> To his credit, he did post the Trump video that you pretend doesn't exist.  Also, chasing low-hanging fruit is not an evolutionary advantage.  So why do you do it?


I've repeatedly posted the 1-40 post-election litigation record compiled by Trump and his allies, which "you pretend doesn't exist."  Many of these judges, some appointed by Trump, have said the same thing:
*
Where is the evidence?*

Which is a question for which you have no answer.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check:* that's not "fake evidence", that is a allegation that was made.   A allegation does not equate to "Fake evidence".


*"OuR eLeCtIoNs ArE aLwAyS rIgGeD"*

**


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check:* that's not "fake evidence", that is a allegation that was made.   A allegation does not equate to "Fake evidence".


Allegations does not equate to "real evidence"
 We can allege anything we want, does not mean squat!
I allege that Republicans are really Lizard people!
Now Jimbo, Please respect my Allegation Until you are able to prove I am wrong!!!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Courts determine the truth, and the election of Trump was not a mistake.


There's plenty of evidence.  There's more evidence of shenanigans than there is evidence that a free and fair election happened.  Tell me, why should people have faith in the election?


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I've repeatedly posted the 1-40 post-election litigation record compiled by Trump and his allies, which "you pretend doesn't exist."  Many of these judges, some appointed by Trump, have said the same thing:
> *
> Where is the evidence?*
> 
> ...



Our elections are always rigged, by simple virtue of two party controlled ballot access and no top choice voting assuring it will be a Democrat or a Republican 99.9% of the time,

Numerous pols both left and right have repeatedly cited that a lack of ability to withhold consent by having a "Neither or none of the above option on ballots" is rigged.

You have no citation that I have posted fake evidence of election fraud.


.    So maybe you should go back to spamming irrelevant talking points from far left pundits, your "Fact" typing hand might get weak.  You should put  "Fact" on a macro and just randomly insert it in to sentences like a infallible Tourette's sufferer.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

People should have faith in the Election because we have yet to be presented with any actual credible evidence of voter fraud.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Our elections are always rigged, by simple virtue of two party controlled ballot access  .





jimbo13 said:


> Fact check:  I have posted no conspiracy theories or fake election fraud evidence.


JUMBO you seem to be making less sense then me !!! lol


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> People should have faith in the Election because we have yet to be presented with any actual credible evidence of voter fraud.



There's an appeal to an authority that has already demonstrated that they are willing to manipulate elections.  Try again.

@AmandaRose You are asserting that there was an election.  Prove it.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There's an appeal to an authority that has already demonstrated that they are willing to manipulate elections.  Try again.
> 
> @AmandaRose You are asserting that there was an election.  Prove it.


There is hundreds of hours of TV footage showing an election happened there is still zero evidence of voter fraud happening.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> People should have faith in the Election because we have yet to be presented with any actual credible evidence of voter fraud.



There are thousands of incidents of confirmed voter fraud, the only debate is whether it was significant enough to change the outcome, this is why people like LumInvader are very careful to use wiggle words like "widespread" which allow them to argue ad nauseum by moving the goal post and debating what constitutes "wide-spread".

And beyond voter fraud we had illegal changes to election process's, primarily in Pennsylvania in violation of the constitution due to covid. The mail in ballots were not sanctioned under legal authority.  Period.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> There is hundreds of hours of TV footage showing an election happened there is still zero evidence of voter fraud happening.


Ok, so we should believe in our tvs, where there is no interest/incentive to deceive or make-believe.  Quit the lie about zero evidence of voter fraud.  There's a lot of evidence.  The only thing that seems to matter is if it's enough to change the standing of the courts.

Even the 1-40 should tell you that there is at least some evidence, unless you are going to posit the idea that courts can be compromised.  1 of 40 votes would be enough to overturn the election.  So where is it that you are assuming some idea of consistency?  Nobody is arguing that the election was clean anymore.  The only two narratives that exist are:  "it wasn't substantial enough to change the outcome", or "it's too late".  You are out of date here and past the point of "there's zero evidence".


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 3, 2020)

I stopped reading 50 pages or so ago. Should i be surprised or not about this still going? Apparently some people keep living in their dream world not accepting reality.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ok, so we should believe in our tvs, where there is no interest/incentive to deceive or make-believe.  Quit the lie about zero evidence of voter fraud.  There's a lot of evidence.  The only thing that seems to matter is if it's enough to change the standing of the courts.


NO we should not believe national news.
Lets listen to Lawyers .. Sidney Powell  - Hugo Chavez and Cuba did it
no wait lets Listen to Roger Stone - North Korea did it
..no wait ... Next week Rudy Giuliani - Martians did it!!!!
at what point do we stop listening to the homeless guy in the street corner screaming "The END is Nigh, Repent"


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

First, you call it "national news".  That's rich.

And then you go on to quote every talking point of said "national news".

Who are you mocking?  Me, or yourself?

The media sensationalizes, misrepresents, and misreports all the time.

But it doesn't matter, because this time it's right.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *There's plenty of evidence.*  There's more evidence of shenanigans than there is evidence that a free and fair election happened.  Tell me, why should people have faith in the election?


Team Trump's *1-40* post-election litigation record =/= Plenty of evidence

These frivolousness lawsuits have failed to establish your claim that there's "plenty of evidence." 

The following groups *unanimously agree* that the elections have been fair and secure:

- All 50 of the United States of America
- State courts
- Federal courts
- Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI)
- Department of Justice (DOJ)
- Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC)
- Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA)
- National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS)
- National Association of State Election Directors (NASED)
- Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council (SCC)

These are the groups that either oversee the election, investigate election fraud, or judge evidence of election fraud.  Just as there is* no evidence* that there's wide-spread voter fraud, there also* isn't any evidence* that these parties are conspiring to aid Biden.  I trust them infinitely more than vindictive conspiracy theorists who intentionally spread misinformation.



> Rudy Giuliani to Judge: "*This Is Not a Fraud Case*"


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Team Trump's *1-40* post-election litigation record =/= Plenty of evidence
> 
> These frivolousness lawsuits have failed to establish your claim that there's "plenty of evidence."
> 
> ...



All of those groups are arms and legs, apart of a single government, that rigs elections.  What can I say?  It's an appeal to an authority that demonstrates faithlessness.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> First, you call it "national news".  That's rich.
> 
> And then you go on to quote every talking point of said "national news".
> 
> ...


wow you don't listen I said " not believe national new"
My Racist DRUNK uncle bob knows more then "reporters"
I mean People quote him on facebook .. that means he telling the truth right?


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Our elections are always rigged*, by simple virtue of two party controlled ballot access and no top choice voting assuring it will be a Democrat or a Republican 99.9% of the time,
> 
> Numerous pols both left and right have repeatedly cited that a lack of ability to withhold consent by having a "Neither or none of the above option on ballots" is rigged.
> 
> ...


"Our elections are always rigged" and "deep state" in the same post.  You are the definition of conspiracy theorist.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> All of those groups are arms and legs, apart of a single government, that rigs elections.  What can I say?  It's an appeal to an authority that demonstrates faithlessness.


oh no did I just Out my uncle @catturd2..
man his twitter is blowing up even since Trump started to quote him ... Image that Trump quotes @catturd2.. instead of National security expects or even His own Attorney General. what a time to be alive


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> wow you don't listen I said " not believe national new"
> My Racist DRUNK uncle bob knows more then "reporters"
> I mean People quote him on facebook .. that means he telling the truth right?



It's hard to "listen" when what's being said is illegible.



djpannda said:


> oh no did I just Out my uncle @catturd2..
> man his twitter is blowing up even since Trump started to quote him ... Image that Trump quote @catturd2.. instead of National security expects or even His own Attorney General. what a time to be alive



If gibberish was a language, I'd try to accommodate you.  Please try something we can find a common ground on.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's hard to "listen" when what's being said is illegible.
> 
> 
> 
> If gibberish was a language, I'd try to accommodate you.  Please try something we can find a common ground on.


I apologize, please tell me again why what you say matters ...


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I mean, you can choose to look away from it.  That makes it hard to see.  AFAIK, it's the utter lack of scrutiny in which it has been dismissed.  You are using "scrutiny" ironically.  Scrutiny would be making mountains out of anthills.  The rulings have starkly been the contrary.  "Oh, fraud, well it doesn't seem to be enough to warrant any seriousness".
> 
> Learn English, while you have the advantage.  You might have to learn Chinese tomorrow.


I am asking right now. Show me a single piece of credible voter fraud evidence. A single piece.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Your flailing like a beached whale is genuinely pathetic. Accept your fucking loss and quit wasting everyone else's time. You cannot demonstrate any evidence at all.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Ok, so we should believe in our tvs, where there is no interest/incentive to deceive or make-believe.  Quit the lie about zero evidence of voter fraud.  There's a lot of evidence.  The only thing that seems to matter is if it's enough to change the standing of the courts.
> 
> Even the 1-40 should tell you that there is at least some evidence, unless you are going to posit the idea that courts can be compromised.  1 of 40 votes would be enough to overturn the election.  So where is it that you are assuming some idea of consistency?  Nobody is arguing that the election was clean anymore.  The only two narratives that exist are:  "it wasn't substantial enough to change the outcome", or "it's too late".  You are out of date here and past the point of "there's zero evidence".


Show me them.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Even the 1-40 should tell you that there is at least some evidence


The one case that won....was them saying that the observers were standing too far away and were at 10ft instead of 6ft....which the courts gave him and decided to adhere to in the future...

Seeing that as "proof" of fraud....is reaching at best...


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> I am asking right now. Show me a single piece of credible voter fraud evidence. A single piece.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


to be fair there was several arrest of voter fraud in the November 2020  Election...

*Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

now only if we can found 90,000 more... but against TRUMP


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *All of those groups are arms and legs, apart of a single government, that rigs elections.*  What can I say?  It's an appeal to an authority that demonstrates faithlessness.


You're appealing to a conspiracy theory that involves unlikely actors from multiple branches of government behaving politically opposite of their appointments.  Your allegation isn't believable or credible.

It's nonsense.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I apologize, please tell me again why what you say matters ...


By all means, please ignore me.  That would be great.



jupitteer said:


> I am asking right now. Show me a single piece of credible voter fraud evidence. A single piece.



Trump lists it in his message, and this thread has plenty scattered throughout.  Your definition of "credible" is just your way of playing plausible deniability, and is obviously the root of our disagreement.  The difference between you and me, is that you pose that it is reasonable to have faith in the America show. 



SonowRaevius said:


> The one case that won....was them saying that the observers were standing too far away and were at 10ft instead of 6ft....which the courts gave him and decided to adhere to in the future...
> 
> Seeing that as "proof" of fraud....is reaching at best...



Don't frame it as if the observers chose to casually stand back too far.  It was obstruction, which is "evidence".


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Trump lists it in his message, and this thread has plenty scattered throughout.  Your definition of "credible" is just your way of playing plausible deniability, and is obviously the root of our disagreement.  The difference between you and me, is that you pose that it is reasonable to have faith in the America show.


A goddamn trump tweet is not evidence. *Link me a single piece of credible evidence.*


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> By all means, please ignore me.  That would be great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother*
OK I gave you one... now you provide one.
 Please provide one... I'm waiting ...


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> There are thousands of incidents of confirmed voter fraud, the only debate is whether it was significant enough to change the outcome, *this is why people like LumInvader are very careful to use wiggle words like "widespread"* which allow them to argue ad nauseum by moving the goal post and debating what constitutes "wide-spread".
> 
> And beyond voter fraud we had illegal changes to election process's, primarily in Pennsylvania in violation of the constitution due to covid. The mail in ballots were not sanctioned under legal authority.  Period.


There is tremendous evidence of wide spread voter fraud in that there is irrefutable proof that our Republican poll watchers and observers were not allowed to be present in poll counting rooms. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia and others. Unconstitutional!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 14, 2020

“Statistical sampling to prove widespread voter fraud...multiple accounts of fraud and voting irregularities may overturn election”...call for paper ballots.  @RandPaul @OANN— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 19, 2020



> "widespread" voter fraud





> *"widespread" voter fraud*





> *"widespread" voter fraud*



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jupitteer said:


> A goddamn trump tweet is not evidence. *Link me a single piece of credible evidence.*


Trump listed it so it must be true!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories_promoted_by_Donald_Trump


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> You're appealing to a conspiracy theory that involves unlikely actors from multiple branches of government behaving politically opposite of their appointments. Your allegation isn't believable or credible.



I'm rejecting your appeal to authority based on its history.  I don't need a "counter appeal" to anything.  That's nonsense.  My allegation? My allegation is that this election does not inspire faith.  I don't believe in it, and I think it's ridiculous that there are still people who do.



jupitteer said:


> A goddamn trump tweet is not evidence. *Link me a single piece of credible evidence.*



Like I am saying.  You reject any evidence, because nothing that helps Trump is credible.  It's obvious that I did not refer to a Trump tweet.  Your disingenuous response is worthy of disingenuous consideration.



djpannda said:


> I did a thing


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm rejecting your appeal to authority based on its history.  I don't need a "counter appeal" to anything.  That's nonsense.  My allegation? My allegation is that this election does not inspire faith.  I don't believe in it, and I think it's ridiculous that there are still people who do.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I am saying.  You reject any evidence, because nothing that helps Trump is credible.  It's obvious that I did not refer to a Trump tweet.  Your disingenuous response is worthy of disingenuous consideration.


 ok ....
*Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother*
OK I gave you one... now you provide one.
 Please provide one... I'm waiting ..


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm rejecting your appeal to authority based on its history.  I don't need a "counter appeal" to anything.  That's nonsense.  My allegation? My allegation is that this election does not inspire faith.  I don't believe in it, and I think it's ridiculous that there are still people who do.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I am saying.  You reject any evidence, because nothing that helps Trump is credible.  It's obvious that I did not refer to a Trump tweet.  Your disingenuous response is worthy of disingenuous consideration.


It is *not evidence.* Anybody making a statement without anything backing it up *does not count as evidence. *You need to go back to school and learn about the scientific method.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> It is *not evidence.* Anybody making a statement without anything backing it up *does not count as evidence. *You need to go back to school and learn about the scientific method.


All testimony, statistical anomalies, and videos showing willful obstruction are forms of evidence in a system that relies on this "yay" or "nay" system.  You want to submit irrefutable evidence that a fair and free election happened?  That's the primary assertion here.  Something that I have to have faith in?  Telling me it was on TV doesn't do it for me.  I would need a way to verify, and I can't.  So I don't trust it.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> All testimony, statistical anomalies, and videos showing willful obstruction are forms of evidence in a system that relies on this "yay" or "nay" system.  You want to submit irrefutable evidence that a fair and free election happened?  That's the primary assertion here.  Something that I have to have faith in?  Telling me it was on TV doesn't do it for me.  I would need a way to verify, and I can't.  So I don't trust it.


so where is the exact voter fraud.. its there a link court docs or report? It does not have to be a conviction just an arrest. Please provide information on this voter fraud from a court document?


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> All testimony, statistical anomalies, and videos showing willful obstruction are forms of evidence in a system that relies on this "yay" or "nay" system.  You want to submit irrefutable evidence that a fair and free election happened?  That's the primary assertion here.  Something that I have to have faith in?  Telling me it was on TV doesn't do it for me.  I would need a way to verify, and I can't.  So I don't trust it.


Conservatives learn object permanence challenge.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm rejecting your appeal to authority based on its history.  I don't need a "counter appeal" to anything.  That's nonsense. * My allegation? My allegation is*...





tabzer said:


> *All of those groups are arms and legs, apart of a single government, that rigs elections.*  What can I say?  It's an appeal to an authority that demonstrates faithlessness.


Caught you in a lie.  Nice try, *conspiracy theorist*.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Caught you in a lie.  Nice try, *conspiracy theorist*.


I'm good with conspiracy theories, but this is not a theory.  Bolivia, Chile, Iran, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea... the list goes on for all the countries that the US has had hand in destabilizing, interfering, and outright rigging the elections of.




jupitteer said:


> Conservatives learn object permanence challenge.



What?  I know words challenge you, but I think I get what you are saying.  However, you elected Trump, and you want to maintain that America is not a farce.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm good with conspiracy theories, but this is not a theory.  Bolivia, Chile, Iran, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea... the list goes on for all the countries that the US has had hand in destabilizing, interfering, and outright rigging the elections of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


America has a massive education problem and a corrupt, corporate-serving government. This does not mean that there is any widespread voter fraud. We have strong institutions, and until you can demonstrate your ridiculous claims, it is presumably false.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

A few of Trump's conspiracy allegations:

"Democrats cheating" conspiracy:


> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> The Great State of Michigan, with votes being far greater than the number of people who voted, cannot certify the election. The Democrats cheated big time, and got caught. A Republican WIN!
> (!) This claim about election fraud is disputed



"Radical Left Democrats" and "Fake News Media" conspiracy:


> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> The Radical Left Democrats, working with their partner, the Fake News Media, are trying to STEAL this Election. We won’t let them!
> (!) This claim about election fraud is disputed



GOP Judge Witch Hunt conspiracy:


> Donald J. Trump
> @realDonaldTrump
> Thanks Mark. It’s all a continuation of the never ending Witch Hunt. Judge Brann, who would not even allow us to present our case or evidence, is a product of Senator Pat “No Tariffs” Toomey of Pennsylvania, no friend of mine, & Obama - No wonder. 900,000 Fraudulent Votes!
> (!) This claim about election fraud is disputed



To date, there is *no evidence* supporting any of these grand conspiracies.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm good with conspiracy theories, but this is not a theory.  Bolivia, Chile, Iran, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea... the list goes on for all the countries that the US has had hand in destabilizing, interfering, and outright rigging the elections of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yea and now Trump, his lawyers/ and close confidants now state HUGO Chavez, Fidel Castro and *Kim Jong-il have all risen from the Grave to steal the 2020 ELECTION..*


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yea and now *Trump, his lawyers/ and close confidants* now state HUGO Chavez, Fidel Castro and *Kim Jong-il have all risen from the Grave to steal the 2020 ELECTION..*


Are *1-40* in post-election litigation!



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> I'm good with conspiracy theories, but this is not a theory.  Bolivia, Chile, Iran, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea... the list goes on for all the countries that the US has had hand in destabilizing, interfering,* and outright rigging* the elections of.


Ok, can you provide evidence of the above allegations?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> America has a massive education problem and a corrupt, corporate-serving government. This does not mean that there is any widespread voter fraud. We have strong institutions, and until you can demonstrate your ridiculous claims, it is presumably false.



You conveniently left out the media.  It is likely that there is widespread voter fraud.  There's a lot more evidence that the election was a farce than there is evidence that it was free and fair.  I don't see anything compelling of why I should place faith in it.  If you are happy with what you have, then that's cool.  You may believe that a "supposed" election is free or fair until it is "proven" that it isn't.  I can believe that it is free and fair when it can be demonstrated. 



LumInvader said:


> Ok, can you provide evidence of the above allegations?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention

That's the list.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention
> 
> That's the list.


I see, so supporting your allegation with evidence is important to you.  Now can you provide evidence that the 2020 US election was rigged?  You know, since evidence is suddenly so important to you.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention
> 
> That's the list.


ok good trick not show me 2020 proof


----------



## tabzer (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I see, so supporting your allegation with evidence is important to you.  Now can you provide evidence that the 2020 US election was rigged?  You know, since evidence is suddenly so important to you.


Evidence of a free and fair election is important to me.  But I can't find any.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Evidence of a free and fair election is important to me.  But I can't find any.


soo *Trump's own national security adviser Robert O'brien, 
Christopher Krebs, director of the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, 
Attorney General Willian Barr*
all of them is not enough ?
 ...  you state your a impartial world observer ? yet you clearly follow Right wing Conservatives, you are either Really gullible as JIMBO or Japan has a weird idea of what a troll is?


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Evidence of a free and fair election is important to me.  But I can't find any.


This exercise demonstrates that tabzer will support an allegation of election rigging if the evidence *exists*.  I challenged him to provide "evidence" supporting his allegation that the "US govt rigs foreign elections" and he got right to it by sharing a wikipedia article.

However, when challenged to provide evidence for 2020 election rigging, *he balked*.  Why?  Because the evidence* doesn't exist*.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Evidence of a free and fair election is important to me.  But I can't find any.


Since you seem to only value anecdotal evidence, my sister was an official poll watcher in Philidelphia during the 2020 election. There is no voter fraud.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

Btw tabzer, I wrote my previous 3 responses to you *at the same time*.  I knew exactly how you'd respond, so I copy pasted them in each time you responded.  

I'm onto your game, broham.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1334560618381271044


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ok, so we should believe in our tvs, where there is no interest/incentive to deceive or make-believe.  Quit the lie about zero evidence* of voter fraud*.  *There's a lot of evidence.*  The only thing that seems to matter is if it's enough to change the standing of the courts.
> 
> *Even the 1-40 should tell you that there is at least some evidence*, unless you are going to posit the idea that courts can be compromised.  *1 of 40 votes would be enough to overturn the election*.  So where is it that you are assuming some idea of consistency?  Nobody is arguing that the election was clean anymore.  The only two narratives that exist are:  "it wasn't substantial enough to change the outcome", or "it's too late".  You are out of date here and past the point of "there's zero evidence".


*Fact check: *The lone post-election litigation victory did *not* produce evidence of fraud:
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1329252472754368513


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Fact check: *The lone post-election litigation victory did *not* produce evidence of fraud:
> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1329252472754368513


Lol so it wasn't even what I had read then, still hilarious.

Also, finding it funny, trump supporters spouted "facts over feelings" and "Evidence first" for the last 4 years are now saying hearsay and no actual evidence is apparently proof enough to prove a conspiracy theory 100% because they assume and feel that something is wrong.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

The election was illegitimate, Biden is illegitimate and 75 million voters will treat the situation as such. We don't even have to get to the fraud and the absurd statistical abnormalities of turnouts and support for Biden in the 90 percentile we can start with.


Illegal changes to the balloting process due to covid hysteria, waivers in regard to residency & identification verification requirements, mail in ballots
Denial of access to poll workers
Ballot harvesting


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The election was illegitimate, Biden is illegitimate and 75 million voters will treat the situation as such. We don't even have to get to the fraud and the absurd statistical abnormalities of turnouts and support for Biden in the 90 percentile we can start with.
> 
> 
> Illegal changes to the balloting process due to covid hysteria, waivers in regard to residency & identification verification requirements, mail in ballots
> ...


ok ....
*Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother*
OK I gave you one... now you provide one.
 Please provide one... I'm waiting .


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Fact check: *The lone post-election litigation victory did *not* produce evidence of fraud:
> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1329252472754368513



*Fact check: *By your own standard Twitter is not a news source and not evidence a trial took place.
*


djpannda said:



			ok ....
Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother
OK I gave you one... now you provide one.
 Please provide one... I'm waiting .
		
Click to expand...


Y*ou will continue waiting, I don't find you to be of value.

There is no shortage of verifiable voter fraud incidents, however when presented you and others will just move the goal post as "It's not widespread or statistically significant".

We have already established there is voter fraud, the topic is how relevant.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 3, 2020)

Does this count

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1334575338718965766


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check: *By your own standard Twitter is not a news source and not evidence a trial took place.
> *
> 
> Y*ou will continue waiting, I don't find you to be of value.
> ...


lol funny there is "no shortage" but there is no one piece of proof that stands up in court you can provide but hey who are we kidding *IF RUDY cant proof anything in court, how CAN A NOBODY SHOW ME proof!! *

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> *
> *
> We have already established there is voter fraud, the topic is how relevant.


 you showed me... -->*Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother*


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

Oh dear more legal problems for the Trump's. Not that it matters he will just pardon his daughter if she is found guilty anyway. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-55177966


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh dear more legal problems for the Trump's. Not that it matters he will just pardon his daughter if she is found guilty anyway.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-55177966


I have a feeling that Trump is going to Parden his whole family and himself. plus Rudy.. 
and it might work unless there is something that is impeachable then the pardon is not valid.. JUICY !!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh dear more legal problems for the Trump's. Not that it matters he will just pardon his daughter if she is found guilty anyway.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-55177966



4 years of constant legal problems, allegations, witch hunts and 0 victories.  Just goes to prove the stereotype of progressives using the courts to witch hunt political opponents.   The Democratic party is nearly entirely made up of attorneys, not a surprise.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 4 years of constant legal problems, allegations, witch hunts and 0 victories. .


Lol you just described voter fraud


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Does this count
> 
> https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1334575338718965766


OANN 






Why is it you guys choose to go with extreme right, barely credible "news outlets" that constantly push propaganda, conspiracy theories, and have deliberately attempted to publish hoaxes in the past, but then wonder why no one here wants to take you seriously. 

Once again, it seems those that are very quick to spout out "fake news" and "fraud" seem so very keen on falling for fake news and fraud.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> OANN
> 
> View attachment 236586
> 
> ...


That and the fact that Raheem Kassam is a former editor-in-chief of Breitbart News another far right news source known for making up fake claims and outright blatant lies lol.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> That and the fact that Raheem Kassam is a former editor-in-chief of Breitbart News another far right news source known for making up fake claims and outright blatant lies lol.


wait are you telling me that HUGO Chavez (who died in 2013) who they stated stole the 2020 election is a fake claim...  NOO say it aint so!!


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 3, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> OANN
> 
> View attachment 236586
> 
> ...



So it doesn't count unless Snopes breaks the news. Gotcha


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> *Fact check: *By your own standard Twitter is not a news source and not evidence a trial took place.


*Correction:* 

Citing conspiracy theories from suspicious social media accounts *is not* a credible news source.  Citing the Democrat's leading lawyer who has been posting all of the post-election dockets online, *is a credible news source*.

Here's the docket from today's ruling, which was another loss for Trump and his allies, who are now* 1-41 (0.02%)*  post-election litigation:

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1334565482079383565


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

*Michigan AG to GOP on voter fraud evidence: ‘Put up or shut up’*
You have embarrassed our state and defamed MIchigan’s most populous city. I call on @MIGOPChair to renounce these statements or take any “evidence” of election law violations to @PAKymWorthy, @USAO_MIE, or @MIAttyGen for investigation. At long last, put up or shut up.— Dana Nessel (@dananessel) December 3, 2020

Those are some fighting words.. I wonder how Rudys is going to respond.. my money is that he's not..


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> OANN
> 
> View attachment 236586
> 
> ...



Same reason you choose to go with extreme left twitter sources & corporatist media monopolies.


I mean you have no problem citing CNN,


who have faked Iraq war footage,
Settled lawsuits libeling high school kids for over a estimated 100 mil.
Staffers caught on video bragging about their anti-trump bias
Caught on audio bragging about burying Hunter Bidens criminal investigation and making racist remarks about cubans for voting for Trump.
Maybe you should stop obsessing over adhominem'ing the source and whether it is accurate or not before you dismiss something.

The obsession over fake news isn't even legitimate, it's a thing cause Hillary needed something new other than sexism to blame as the reason people don't like her.

What kind of fucking clown shoes takes CNN serious after continuing to employ Chris Cuomo after his covid stunts?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

shamzie said:


> So it doesn't count unless Snopes breaks the news. Gotcha


Is that the only way you know how to make an argument for yourself is to put words in others' mouths that were never uttered? 

The only one so far that has shown a very clear bias in this topic is yourself and you have admitted to as much as well. 

Either grow up and try a bit harder or just stop altogether because at this point you're becoming more of a nuisance than a participant in this discussion.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The obsession over fake news isn't even legitimate, it's a thing cause Hillary needed something new other than sexism to blame as the reason people don't like her.


And yet it's Trump always saying

Fake news fake news


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Is that the only way you know how to make an argument for yourself is to put words in others' mouths that were never uttered?
> 
> The only one so far that has shown a very clear bias in this topic is yourself and you have admitted to as much as well.
> 
> Either grow up and try a bit harder or just stop altogether because at this point you're becoming more of a nuisance than a participant in this discussion.



Progressives continually attacking any source right of Stalin has been a trend in this topic, maybe you haven't been paying attention.

You can't even post court documents for a factual reference without some child going "ERMEGEHD I only trust salon and huffpost".


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Progressives continually attacking any source right of Stalin has been a trend in this topic, maybe you haven't been paying attention.
> 
> You can't even post court documents for a factual reference without some child going "ERMEGEHD I only trust salon and huffpost".


Heres a court doc 

now know let me see yours !!


----------



## 0x3000027E (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> huffpost


Ohhhhh, but sir, huffpost has the most _thought provoking _articles written by the most _sensational _of 'journalists'.

A headline from today:
"What if We Just Gave People Enough Money to Live On?"

A silent applause for the author of this article.
What _perspective_.
A universal income. Why.....hasn't....anyone....thought of that?


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> And yet it's Trump always saying
> 
> Fake news fake news



B.b.b.b.ut the bad people are making up that he lost the election.

Only Donald Trump knows if it's fake news or not.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Well, it seems this thread has turned from the lefties falsely claiming a Biden win to them trying to denounce the overwhelming evidence and calling real news sources "far-right propaganda".  Seems to fit the natural progression of a leftist thread.  
Keep pushing the deep state's narrative, lefties.  Maybe one day, you'll hear the BS you're spewing, and realize just how stupid and blind you've been.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

0x3000027E said:


> Ohhhhh, but sir, huffpost has the most _thought provoking _articles written by the most _sensational _of 'journalists'.
> 
> A headline from today:
> "What if We Just Gave People Enough Money to Live On?"
> ...




I'd say the left will never top this shit show but we all know they will.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I mean you have no problem citing CNN,



Am I blind? I don't recall seeing anyone cite CNN as a source recently. Open to being corrected if I'm wrong though.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Don't forget this award winning headline:

*Ivanka Trump 'blamed a fart on her classmates when she was a bratty teenager' *

This alone should disqualify the Trump's for any future offices, REEEEEEEE!!!

They can't even own up to their own gassy expulsions.

Give me a break.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> trying to denounce the overwhelming evidence



cope harder, and while you're at it, why don't you share some of this "overwhelming evidence" that people have been asking for for literally dozens of pages.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> cope harder, and while you're at it, why don't you share some of this "overwhelming evidence" that people have been asking for for literally dozens of pages.


Kind of hard to do when there is no overwhelming evidence.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I'd say the left will never top this shit show but we all know they will.


don't be take yourself soo harshly .. I think your a monster 
[ 


morvoran said:


> trying to denounce the overwhelming evidence


ill show you mine... now  show me yours?
Heres a court doc


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 3, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Is that the only way you know how to make an argument for yourself is to put words in others' mouths that were never uttered?
> 
> The only one so far that has shown a very clear bias in this topic is yourself and you have admitted to as much as well.
> 
> Either grow up and try a bit harder or just stop altogether because at this point you're becoming more of a nuisance than a participant in this discussion.



You dismissed the whole video and what was on the video based on who broke the news. You didn't even attempt to counter anything in the video, you didn't say "well this is clearly fake because ..." all you did was point to some crappy website I couldn't care less about. I didn't put any words in your mouth, you made it clear the video was worthless because it didn't come from your inner network of trusted fake news websites, ala CNN, Snopes, or anything else that spews your trump hating propaganda you love so much.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You dismissed the whole video and what was on the video based on who broke the news. You didn't even attempt to counter anything in the video, you didn't say "well this is clearly fake because ..." all you did was point to some crappy website I couldn't care less about. I didn't put any words in your mouth, you made it clear the video was worthless because it didn't come from your inner network of trusted fake news websites, ala CNN, Snopes, or anything else that spews your trump hating propaganda you love so much.


Snopes literally just fact checks. It does not give a single personal opinion of anybody writing anything there. You are disagreeing with reality.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You dismissed the whole video and what was on the video based on who broke the news. You didn't even attempt to counter anything in the video, you didn't say "well this is clearly fake because ..." all you did was point to some crappy website I couldn't care less about. I didn't put any words in your mouth, you made it clear the video was worthless because it didn't come from your inner network of trusted fake news websites, ala CNN, Snopes, or anything else that spews your trump hating propaganda you love so much.


how does it feels to put your trust in


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> cope harder, and while you're at it, why don't you share some of this "overwhelming evidence" that people have been asking for for literally dozens of pages.



If you can't break away from the democrat's "state media" and watch the multiple hearings from the past weeks held by the actual Trump legal team, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince a blind puppet that their masters are leading them over a cliff of self destruction.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I'd say the left will never top this shit show but we all know they will.



Speaking of extremist news sources...


jimbo13 said:


> *I only trust news sites banned by fecebook or that get tagged by twitter*, fuck the robo-ginger and anyone enabling his manipulation of society. If Billionaires aren't trying to silence and discredit you you're not a journalist.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Am I blind? I don't recall seeing anyone cite CNN as a source recently. Open to being corrected if I'm wrong though.





Lacius said:


> None of these are fake news. CNN and Snopes are not left or left-leaning.





Plasmaster09 said:


> you seriously think _*CNN, *_a major mildly-left-kinda-sorta-maybe news source, and _*SNOPES,*_ a freaking fact-checking website, are so far left-biased they're fake news?
> seriously?


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Snopes literally just fact checks. It does not give a single personal opinion of anybody writing anything there. You are disagreeing with reality.



You're right, and CNN just reports the news without an agenda. Neither of them twist anything to suit their narrative. 

You can trust these websites for their open and honest fact checking, straight down the middle they are.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...story-saying-Cuban-Americans-voted-Trump.html

They don't favour one candidate over the other, they don't make the news, they just report the news.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Snopes literally just fact checks. It does not give a single personal opinion of anybody writing anything there. You are disagreeing with reality.



Have you ever really looked at a snopes "claim" or do you just read "Mostly false" and make your own opinion based on that?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> If you can't break away from the democrat's "state media" and watch the multiple hearings from the past weeks held by the actual Trump legal team, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince a blind puppet that their masters are leading them over a cliff of self destruction.



blah blah blah blah blah no evidence, you ain't got shit



jimbo13 said:


> [quotes]



So nobody has cited it, just mentioned it. Got it. So you're also just full of shit.

Edit - lmao you had to even go back to the first 10 pages for those quotes.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Have you ever really looked at a snopes "claim" or do you just read "Mostly false" and make your own opinion based on that?


Of course I have, and I always do my best to read cited sources from everywhere I look to audit them.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> If you can't break away from the democrat's "state media" and watch the multiple hearings from the past weeks held by the actual Trump legal team, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince a blind puppet that their masters are leading them over a cliff of self destruction.


 lol mean
*"Moment Rudy tells his Dominion contract worker witness to 'shush' during voter fraud hearing as she berates lawmaker - while another witness calls for voter IDs because 'Chinese all look alike"*

I WATCHED IT ALL IT WAS FUNNY AS FUCK!!.. I don't think SNL has been that funny in years


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> I have been. You are a dipshit.



Nevermind, I got my answer here.  Nice argument there with the name calling, Sheep.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> blah blah blah blah blah no evidence, you ain't got shit
> 
> 
> 
> So nobody has cited it, just mentioned it. Got it. So you're also just full of shit.



Cool, glad you agree CNN is full of shit.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Have you ever really looked at a snopes "claim" or do you just read "Mostly false" and make your own opinion based on that?


I will post this again as it got ignored last time. It is from the website allsides which is a non biased websites that reviews other websites to see if they are right or left wing. They clearly say

AllSides conducted an editorial review of Snopes on June 2, 2020. We concluded that Snopes warrants a Center rating, 

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/snopes


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Cool, glad you agree CNN is full of shit.



Nope, I quite literally never said that.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Nevermind, I got my answer here.  Nice argument there with the name calling, Sheep.


I refuted your statement that I haven't been watching the hearings with the fact that i have been.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Nope, I quite literally never said that.



Cool, just keep dancing away from the topic that progressives on this thread just continually ad-hominem any source while lawyering people with bullshit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jupitteer said:


> I refuted your statement that I haven't been watching the hearings with the fact that i have been.



The only purpose snopes serves is a crutch for progressives to argue with memes they can't make themselves.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Cool, just keep dancing away from the topic that progressives on this thread just continually ad-hominem any source while lawyering people with bullshit.



I put forward a very straightforward question and you were unable to answer it and started putting words in my mouth. You've got fuck all for an argument.

Edit: cope


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I will post this again as it got ignored last time.


 It wasn't ignored, you were as you don't add anything pertinent to the conversation.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

lol 
if this is the star witness you guys got, than damn... *this whole case is pure hot garbage !*!! She was a drunk mess that started screaming  the Republican lawmaker she needed to convince.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The only purpose snopes serves is a crutch for progressives to argue with memes they can't make themselves.


You quoted my post with a completely unrelated statement.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I put forward a very straightforward question and you were unable to answer it and started putting words in my mouth. You've got fuck all for an argument.
> 
> Edit: cope




My argument is not fuck all, it's progressives on this thread continually adhominem any every source regardless of the merit of the content.  

Not complicated, want to lawyer around about the point of being CNN cited as credible fine.   Point doesn't change about progressives on this thread endlessly adhomineming any and every source even when posted just for reference.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> It wasn't ignored, you were as you don't add anything pertinent to the conversation.


Why is that because it disproves the bullshit claim that Snopes is a trump hating leftist website when it is clearly takes the middle ground.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> My argument is not fuck all, it's progressives on this thread continually adhominem any every source regardless of the merit of the content.
> 
> Not complicated, want to lawyer around about the point of being CNN cited as credible fine.   Point doesn't change about progressives on this thread endlessly adhomineming any and every source even when posted just for reference.


you are sad.. you make baby Terry cry..


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I put forward a very straightforward question and you were unable to answer it and started putting words in my mouth. You've got fuck all for an argument.


Just because you don't get the answers you want, just completely refuse to accept reality or your leaders tell you differently, doesn't mean you should continue to denounce all the evidence that has been put out to the public so far with a whole lot more to be revealed.  The people here with their eyes open, aka "Republicans or right thinking people" are not going to hold your hand and cuddle you and lie to you like all your peers do.  You have to see the truth for yourself like we all did.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> My argument is not fuck all, it's progressives on this thread continually adhominem any every source regardless of the merit of the content.
> 
> Not complicated, want to lawyer around about the point of being CNN cited as credible fine.   Point doesn't change about progressives on this thread endlessly adhomineming any and every source even when posted just for reference.



I asked where someone had cited CNN. You provided posts where people typed the letters "C", "N", and "N". Then said claimed that I agree CNN is full of shit, which I never said. You're full of shit and your arguments have more holes than a block of Swiss.



jupitteer said:


> You quoted my post with a completely unrelated statement.



Welcome to trying to have a discussion with jimbo. That's normal behavior for him.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I asked where someone had cited CNN. You provided posts where people typed the letters "C", "N", and "N". Then said claimed that I agree CNN is full of shit, which I never said. You're full of shit and your arguments have more holes than a block of Swiss.
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to trying to have a discussion with jimbo. That's normal behavior for him.



Simple question is CNN credible or not.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Just because you don't get the answers you want, just completely refuse to accept reality or your leaders tell you differently,


"To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election"  -*US Attorney General William Barr*
"the most secure in American history.”-*Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency


SOMEONE not taking their own advice!!!*


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Why is that because it disproves the bullshit claim that Snopes is a trump hating leftist website when it is clearly takes the middle ground.



*Snopes rates true claim "mostly false" *

Just one of many examples that Snopes can't be trusted.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Simple question is CNN credible or not.



Nah man, fuck that. I asked if anyone had recently cited CNN, you come back with a non-answer and then start putting words in my mouth. I'm not making your own fucking argument for you.


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 3, 2020)

What do you guys think about this website?

https://hereistheevidence.com/

It provides about 125 examples (with the respective sources) of voter fraud they would consider admissible as evidence in court, rated by significance and admissibility.

(It also provides about 1000 unverified/unverifiable/new claims.)


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Nah man, fuck that. I asked if anyone had recently cited CNN, you come back with a non-answer and then start putting words in my mouth. I'm not making your own fucking argument for you.



Just did when you wont even reveal your stance on CNN while lawyering your bullshit.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You dismissed the whole video and what was on the video based on who broke the news. You didn't even attempt to counter anything in the video, you didn't say "well this is clearly fake because ..." all you did was point to some crappy website I couldn't care less about. I didn't put any words in your mouth, you made it clear the video was worthless because it didn't come from your inner network of trusted fake news websites, ala CNN, Snopes, or anything else that spews your trump hating propaganda you love so much.


Proving my point again that you can't make an argument without putting words in my mouth. I don't know what other people you argue with that you think you can easily do this with and think "Oh well that will shut them up" but it won't since, once again, you have 0 facts to back up your statement. 

And just to make my point very much clear, and you can even check my post history, I have never once backed CNN, Snopes, or any other left biased sources and if someone posted something from one of the left sources that also had a go of fake news and conspiracies I would call them out as well. 

Also, your statement in general is just nonsensical, because what you are arguing is that I, and everyone else, should waste our time trying to debunk something from a place that literally spews false news regularly. That is like saying I should prove something like "The Onion" or "Babylon Bee" false as well, there comes a point when you realize what is bullshit and wasn't. 

Finally, your argument absolutely reeks of hypocrisy, because you have, once again, admitted to being extremely biased yourself and have refused to respond to any site that you consider "lefty" and do call it so solely on the fact that it says anything negative about Trump. 

I've given you, and the other trump lovers, ample opportunity to find and use and actual unbiased source, and even gave you a list of new sites that aren't biased and to use links from them to prove your point, but apparently even that makes me a "lefty".


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Just did when you wont even reveal your stance on CNN while lawyering your bullshit.



I quite literally didn't. Try harder


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Just because you don't get the answers you want, just completely refuse to accept reality or your leaders tell you differently, doesn't mean you should continue to denounce all the evidence that has been put out to the public so far with a whole lot more to be revealed.  The people here with their eyes open, aka "Republicans or right thinking people" are not going to hold your hand and cuddle you and lie to you like all your peers do.  You have to see the truth for yourself like we all did.


Show this evidence you're talking about.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> What do you guys think about this website?
> 
> https://hereistheevidence.com/
> 
> ...


lol your joking right? that website is literally a phishing website for crazy people....
 HECK I even submitted info that HUGO Chavez rose from the died and voted... and received an email stating my issue will be logged and reviewed  lol


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> What do you guys think about this website?
> 
> https://hereistheevidence.com/
> 
> ...



Inb4.... REEEEEEEE!!!!!!  That's right wing propaganda and can't be trusted!!!!  Jeffery Toobin told me so on a zoom call!!!

If it's not CNN, MSDNC, or Faux News, the lefties won't acknowledge it.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/here-is-the-evidence/


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I quite literally didn't. Try harder




Nah no thanks, I have better things to do than debate someone who wants to hide their stance on CNN so they can call other peooples stance bullshit while having no stance of their own.

You forfeit being considered of having a point as opposed to just finding a excuse to troll & bitch.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Well, it seems this thread has turned from the lefties falsely claiming a Biden win to them trying to denounce the overwhelming evidence



overwhelming evidence? 

I'm truly underwhelmed by the lack of evidence. I'd have expected Trump to dig up something.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Nah no thanks, I have better things to do than debate someone who wants to hide their stance on CNN so they can call other peooples stance bullshit while having no stance of their own.
> 
> You forfeit being considered of having a point as opposed to just finding a excuse to troll & bitch.


Why are you talking about CNN? I don't think anybody linked an article from them here, and it's unrelated to Joe Biden winning the 2020 presidential election.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You dismissed the whole video and what was on the video based on who broke the news. You didn't even attempt to counter anything in the video, you didn't say "well this is clearly fake because ..." all you did was point to some crappy website I couldn't care less about. I didn't put any words in your mouth, you made it clear the video was worthless because it didn't come from your inner network of trusted fake news websites, ala CNN, Snopes, or anything else that spews your trump hating propaganda you love so much.



You dismiss news from cnn & snopes because of who broke the news. So what are you bitching about?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Inb4.... REEEEEEEE!!!!!!  That's right wing propaganda and can't be trusted!!!!  Jeffery Toobin told me so on a zoom call!!!
> 
> If it's not CNN, MSDNC, or Faux News, the lefties won't acknowledge it.


your a joke and you make baby Jesus cry...
https://hereistheevidence.com/
is not a "News site" nor does it pretend to be..
its a website literally made to phish for people willing to write they believe its rigged so it can be present as a number example in court "10,000 stated there was voter fraud" when 9,999 literally wrote down " my Sisters husbands barber saw an illegal vote"
if you think this is a new site then damn. no wonder Trump played all of you


----------



## ut2k4master (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> *Snopes rates true claim "mostly false" *
> 
> Just one of many examples that Snopes can't be trusted.


and who the f is "notthebee"? the article you linked (just like you) didnt even read the whole snopes post and just stopped reading after the first paragraph, lol


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Inb4.... REEEEEEEE!!!!!!  That's right wing propaganda and can't be trusted!!!!  Jeffery Toobin told me so on a zoom call!!!
> 
> If it's not CNN, MSDNC, or Faux News, the lefties won't acknowledge it.


 you and @jimbo13 are the type of people still waiting for gateway to release an update 4.3 for 3ds aren't you? 
lolol


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Nah no thanks, I have better things to do than debate someone who wants to hide their stance on CNN so they can call other peooples stance bullshit while having no stance of their own.
> 
> You forfeit being considered of having a point as opposed to just finding a excuse to troll & bitch.





jupitteer said:


> Why are you talking about CNN? I don't think anybody linked an article from them here, and it's unrelated to Joe Biden winning the 2020 presidential election.



Yeah, jupitteer hits it on the head. I also don't understand why my opinion on CNN matters when it wasn't the question.

But go ahead jimbo, run along sport, the adults are trying to have a discussion. Ta-ta!


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Why are you talking about CNN? I don't think anybody linked an article from them here, and it's unrelated to Joe Biden winning the 2020 presidential election.


Nobody did, they honestly think that anyone that disagrees with them or their sources are "CNN watching lefist commies" .

They are pretty much like pigeons on a chess board who think that strutting all over it and taking a shit is winning.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> If it's not CNN, MSDNC, or Faux News, the lefties won't acknowledge it.



When have "lefties" ever acknowledged Fox News?


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> *Snopes rates true claim "mostly false" *
> 
> Just one of many examples that Snopes can't be trusted.


Haha you linked to a site that has a grudge against Snopes because snopes banned any of their content from being posted on Snopes.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The only purpose snopes serves is a crutch for progressives to argue with memes they can't make themselves.



No, it's a reasonable fact checking service for people who aren't scared of facts.



morvoran said:


> *Snopes rates true claim "mostly false" *
> 
> Just one of many examples that Snopes can't be trusted.



Great strawman,

_Incredibly, Snopes acknowledged the omission yet still rated the claim that it happened "mostly false."_

I guess he couldn't read this bit.

*In fact, during every recitation of the pledge before each night’s events — the 2020 DNC lasted four nights — the phrase “under God” was included. 
*
What snowflake actually cares if they talk about imaginary men in the sky though?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> When have "lefties" ever acknowledged Fox News?


lol have you not notice... they are turning on any one that is not agreeing 100% percent..
They turned on Fox News, they turned on the Republican governors of GA and NV, and there was a report today that TRUMP tried to Chew out BARR for saying there is no widespread voter fraud.  They soo hungry they eating themselves alive!!


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol have you not notice... they are turning on any one that is not agreeing 100% percent..
> They turned on Fox News, they turned on the Republican governors of GA and NV, and there was a report today that TRUMP tried to Chew out BARR for saying there is no widespread voter fraud.  They soo hungry they eating themselves alive!!



Oh, I know. I just want to watch them say that. I've got a feeling of deja vu because I'm pretty sure I've rehashed this exact line of discussion multiple times over the past month. A lot of time with the same people.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> your a joke and you make baby Jesus cry...
> https://hereistheevidence.com/
> is not a "News site" nor does it pretend to be..
> its a website literally made to phish for people willing to write they believe its rigged so it can be present as a number example in court "10,000 stated there was voter fraud" when 9,999 literally wrote down " my Sisters husbands barber saw an illegal vote"
> if you think this is a new site then damn. no wonder Trump played all of you


You need to stop sucking Trump's dick so hard. Newsflash: He doesn't give two flying fucks about anybody but himself. Unless you're a rich guy, he doesn't care if you die, COVID or otherwise. He was a terrible embarrassment of a president, and The People have voted his stupid ass out. The last 4 years have been an absolute dumpster fire under the Republicans. Nowhere else in the world do they have republicans, and they're much better off. I honestly wish they'd all vanish. They're just so full of hate and spew vile ideologies and racism. Your candidate lost fair and square, and there's no voter fraud. Take the L and move on.  The pathetic lawsuits are being tossed out of court left and right because there's no evidence in-hand. You're one of the most dense mfers I've ever seen on this site, holy cow.  Bernie Sanders predicted Trump would go kicking and screaming if he lost, and he was right. Embarrassing.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Yeah, jupitteer hits it on the head. I also don't understand why my opinion on CNN matters when it wasn't the question.
> 
> But go ahead jimbo, run along sport, the adults are trying to have a discussion. Ta-ta!




Nah your trying to have a echo-chamber while attacking everyone's source but refusing to state who you accept as credible.





smf said:


> No, it's a reasonable fact checking service for people who aren't scared of facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only credibility snopes has is partisan, no one other than rabid progressives accept them as a source.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> You need to stop sucking Trump's dick so hard. Newsflash: He doesn't give two flying fucks about anybody but himself. Unless you're a rich guy, he doesn't care if you die, COVID or otherwise. He was a terrible embarrassment of a president, and The People have voted his stupid ass out. The last 4 years have been an absolute dumpster fire under the Republicans. Nowhere else in the world do they have republicans, and they're much better off. I honestly wish they'd all vanish. They're just so full of hate and spew vile ideologies and racism. Your candidate lost fair and square, and there's no voter fraud. Take the L and move on.  The pathetic lawsuits are being tossed out of court left and right because there's no evidence in-hand. You're one of the most dense mfers I've ever seen on this site, holy cow.  Bernie Sanders predicted Trump would go kicking and screaming if he lost, and he was right. Embarrassing.


..... why you pointing at me lol


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

So to recap, we've got 3 pages of these guys putting words in my mouth on what my opinion on CNN is, when all I stated was that I don't think anyone has even mentioned CNN lately. And when asked for proof, all they (jimbo) does is link to times a month ago when people pressed the letters "CNN" on their keyboard in a post in this thread.

If you're putting faith in these same guys trying to report evidence of election fraud, let alone find evidence in the first place... well, don't hold your breath. Or do, I'm not your dad.



jimbo13 said:


> Nah your trying to have a echo-chamber while attacking everyone's source but refusing to state who you accept as credible.



You said you have better things to do? Bye?


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> You need to stop sucking Trump's dick so hard. Newsflash: He doesn't give two flying fucks about anybody but himself. Unless you're a rich guy, he doesn't care if you die, COVID or otherwise. He was a terrible embarrassment of a president, and The People have voted his stupid ass out. The last 4 years have been an absolute dumpster fire under the Republicans. Nowhere else in the world do they have republicans, and they're much better off. I honestly wish they'd all vanish. They're just so full of hate and spew vile ideologies and racism. Your candidate lost fair and square, and there's no voter fraud. Take the L and move on.  The pathetic lawsuits are being tossed out of court left and right because there's no evidence in-hand. You're one of the most dense mfers I've ever seen on this site, holy cow.  Bernie Sanders predicted Trump would go kicking and screaming if he lost, and he was right. Embarrassing.



The previous 8 years were a complete dumpster fire, Progressive ideology is a wart on the ass of humanity and a ideology of professional victimhood.  He did not lose fair & square, we do not accept the elections or your bullshit ideology and if you are accusing anyone of being a cock sucker perhaps you should look in the mirror.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The only credibility snopes has is partisan, no one other than rabid progressives accept them as a source.



Or maybe you just can't handle the truth.



jimbo13 said:


> He did not lose fair & square



Proof of that seems to be lacking.


----------



## Master X (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol have you not notice... they are turning on any one that is not agreeing 100% percent..
> They turned on Fox News, they turned on the Republican governors of GA and NV, and there was a report today that TRUMP tried to Chew out BARR for saying there is no widespread voter fraud.  They soo hungry they eating themselves alive!!



Man, the Georgia runoffs are going to be a shitshow. Pro-Trump groups are pushing a boycott of the elections, and I'm fulling expecting them to claim that the loss of Republican votes their boycott caused is somehow proof of Democrats committing election fraud.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> When have "lefties" ever acknowledged Fox News?


They will now that it is just another leftist propaganda "news" channel.



smf said:


> I guess he couldn't read this bit.


 I guess comprehension isn't a strong point for you to have noticed this part:
"On more than one occasion, Democrats excluded the words "under God" during caucus meetings at the Democratic National Convention."  
Snopes claimed this was mostly false even though it was true.  Geez-us, that's why I have a hard time discussing stuff with lefties.... you either stick to the one part that fits your narrative or you resort to name calling.   That's why I usually stick to just telling you to stop listening to your leaders and look up the info yourself, or I just resort to name calling myself.  Why bother?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> And when asked for proof, all they (jimbo) does is link to times a month ago when people pressed the letters "CNN" on their keyboard in a post in this thread.


lol all I think about now is @jimbo13 doing this


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> They will now that it is just another leftist propaganda "news" channel.



Man oh man I wish we had a clown emote. That was a good one. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The previous 8 years were a complete dumpster fire, Progressive ideology is a wart on the ass of humanity and a ideology of professional victimhood.  He did not lose fair & square, we do not accept the elections or your bullshit ideology and if you are accusing anyone of being a cock sucker perhaps you should look in the mirror.


How is being progressive a bad thing? You'd rather squander in the same bullshit than move forward? That's some backward-ass thinking my guy. _*SNIP* _And I doubt you have a shred of proof that Trump didn't lose fair and square.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol all I think about now is @jimbo13 doing this



I know, you think about me constantly. It's borderline sexual harassment how frequently I am in your thoughts.




Sicklyboy said:


> Man oh man I wish we had a clown emote. That was a good one. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.



Not as pathetic as hiding as who you do accept as reliable sources.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> They will now that it is just another leftist propaganda "news" channel.
> 
> I guess comprehension isn't a strong point for you to have noticed this part:
> "On more than one occasion, Democrats excluded the words "under God" during caucus meetings at the Democratic National Convention."
> Snopes claimed this was mostly false even though it was true.  Geez-us, that's why I have a hard time discussing stuff with lefties.... you either stick to the one part that fits your narrative or you resort to name calling.   That's why I usually stick to just telling you to stop listening to your leaders and look up the info yourself, or I just resort to name calling myself.  Why bother?


its sad when Dementia hits soo close to home.. GOD Bless you MORON...sorry I mean @morvoran


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Man oh man I wish we had a clown emote. That was a good one. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.


I must not consume enough soy to understand what you mean here.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> How is being progressive a bad thing? You'd rather squander in the same bullshit than move forward? That's some backward-ass thinking my guy. _*snip*_ And I doubt you have a shred of proof that Trump didn't lose fair and square.



Oh yeah, were going to peacefully protest the whole thing to the ground.  No voter ID=  Election rejected.  Boycott.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I must not consume enough soy to understand what you mean here.


lol don't worry I hear phallus of Trump is enough for you


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> If it's not CNN, MSDNC, or Faux News, the lefties won't acknowledge it





Sicklyboy said:


> When have "lefties" ever acknowledged Fox News?





djpannda said:


> they are turning on any one that is not agreeing 100% percent..





Sicklyboy said:


> Oh, I know. I just want to watch them say that.





morvoran said:


> They will now that it is just another leftist propaganda "news" channel.



I just wanted to put all of these quotes in one place for posterity. It's too good.



jimbo13 said:


> Not as pathetic as hiding as who you do accept as reliable sources.



I almost do want to tell you what news outlets I trust for information, but I don't want to give you that satisfaction. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned where they sit in terms of what side of the aisle they tend to be biased towards though.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> I just wanted to put all of these quotes in one place for posterity. It's too good.
> 
> 
> 
> I almost do want to tell you what news outlets I trust for information, but I don't want to give you that satisfaction. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned where they sit in terms of what side of the aisle they tend to be biased towards though.



No you want to play dumb fucking games so you can sit there and adhominem sources and engage in circular nonsense.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The previous 8 years were a complete dumpster fire, Progressive ideology is a wart on the ass of humanity and a ideology of professional victimhood.  He did not lose fair & square, we do not accept the elections or your bullshit ideology and if you are accusing anyone of being a cock sucker perhaps you should look in the mirror.


. . . a progressive did not get elected though?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No you want to play dumb fucking games so you can sit there and adhominem sources and engage in circular nonsense.


"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> They will now that it is just another leftist propaganda "news" channel.
> 
> I guess comprehension isn't a strong point for you to have noticed this part:
> "On more than one occasion, Democrats excluded the words "under God" during caucus meetings at the Democratic National Convention."



I did notice that part, that is why it was mostly false and not entirely false. It was discussing this claim.

*"The fact that the DNC omitted “under God” from the pledge of allegiance on a national platform should worry every believer! *

As it appears the DNC didn't tell anyone to omit it & it was only occasionally omitted by people of their own choice then I agree with Snopes.



morvoran said:


> Snopes claimed this was mostly false even though it was true.



Except the claim they were responding to wasn't true. You want it to be true, because you want snopes to be wrong.

Let's look at who didn't say it....

_In at least two of these meetings of smaller individual caucuses — the LGBTQ caucus meeting and the Muslim Delegates Assembly on Aug. 18 — the phrase “under God” was omitted from the pledge._

Is there a surprise that people in those groups would choose themselves not to talk about your god?


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

this thread is braindead anyone wanna play some guilty gear or something


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The previous 8 years were a complete dumpster fire, Progressive ideology is a wart on the ass of humanity and a ideology of professional victimhood.  *He did not lose fair & square*, we do not accept the elections or your bullshit ideology and if you are accusing anyone of being a cock sucker perhaps you should look in the mirror.


- You have provided no evidence that "he did not lose fair & square"
- There is no evidence of wide-spread voter fraud.
- There is no evidence of election conspiracy.
- Every court decision where election fraud and/or conspiracy was alleged has been dismissed due to lack of evidence.

https://t.co/BagxEJGnKi pic.twitter.com/iOU91mIchv— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) December 3, 2020


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No you want to play dumb fucking games so you can sit there and adhominem sources and engage in circular nonsense.



What happened to you having better things to do? I thought you were leaving.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> and The *"dead, out of state and imaginary* People *that somehow registered and submitted a ballot *have voted his stupid ass out.


  Fixed this for you.



Jayro said:


> How is being progressive a bad thing? You'd rather squander in the same bullshit than move forward? That's some backward-ass thinking my guy.


 See below...



jimbo13 said:


> Oh yeah, were going to peacefully protest the whole thing to the ground. No voter ID= Election rejected. Boycott.


  But, but, but voter id is "RACIST", REEEEEE!!!!  Just ask any liberal/progressive..... oh, here's some here -


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Fixed this for you.
> 
> See below...
> 
> But, but, but voter id is "RACIST", REEEEEE!!!!  Just ask any liberal/progressive..... oh, here's some here -




Didn't you just denounce Fox News as, uh... hold on, let me find the quote.



morvoran said:


> just another leftist propaganda "news" channel.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

no takers on the guilty gear? shame


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> - You have provided no evidence that "he did not lose fair & square"
> - There is no evidence of wide-spread voter fraud.
> - There is no evidence of election conspiracy.
> - Every court decision where election fraud and/or conspiracy was alleged has been dismissed due to lack of evidence.
> ...




We do not have any verification of ID or eligibility to vote.
We did not have legal due process allowing mail in ballots in PA.
We did not have legal and proper poll watchers allowed to do there jobs.

And I am not subscribing to where you set the goal posts.

I as a voter & citzens along with millions of other deem this election illegitimate.  Period.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

smf said:


> I did notice that part, that is why it was mostly false and not entirely false. It was discussing this claim.





smf said:


> Except the claim they were responding to wasn't true.



You can make up your own opinions, but you can't make up your own facts.   If I say that the DNC left out Under God, even if they only did it once, they still left it out.  Just because they say it one or two occasions by mistake, doesn't mean they never omitted it once.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> As someone who nitpicks the quoting system and cites it as a point


wym


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Fixed this for you.
> 
> See below...
> 
> But, but, but voter id is "RACIST", REEEEEE!!!!  Just ask any liberal/progressive..... oh, here's some here -





I am guessing your going to have to go with the Daily worker to find a source he accepts, but then he will complain it is russian or something.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jupitteer said:


> wym



My bad, I had decided it wasn't worth explaining the previous post to you and forgot to snip it.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Fixed this for you.
> 
> See below...
> 
> But, but, but voter id is "RACIST", REEEEEE!!!!  Just ask any liberal/progressive..... oh, here's some here -



Your just make yourself a joke by not providing court doc backing you position and changing the subject to prove your not racist by posting an dog whistle argument for racist


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You can make up your own opinions, but you can't make up your own facts.   If I say that the DNC left out Under God, even if they only did it once, they still left it out.  Just because they say it one or two occasions by mistake, doesn't mean they never omitted it once.



The people who omitted it have every right to omit it.

_In at least two of these meetings of smaller individual caucuses — the LGBTQ caucus meeting and the Muslim Delegates Assembly on Aug. 18 — the phrase “under God” was omitted from the pledge._

People in the LGBTQ community that have been told for years that god hates them & Muslims who would want to say Allah but realise that they would get shot if they started shouting their gods name are within their rights not to say it.

The "convention" did not omit it. You seem upset that the organizers of the convention didn't force everyone to say it whether they believed in your god or not.

The claim is mostly false.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I am guessing your going to have to go with the Daily worker to find a source he accepts, but then he will complain it is russian or something.


Yeah, if we use it as a source, it will then became "right wing propaganda lies".



Sicklyboy said:


> Didn't you just denounce Fox News as, uh... hold on, let me find the quote.


  You didn't notice that the clip was from 4 years ago.  Fox News lost its credibility when it claimed Biden won Arizona with only 10% reporting and Trump was ahead in the votes.   It's almost like they knew Biden would steal Arizona, too.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Fox News lost its credibility when it claimed Biden won Arizona with only 10% reporting and Trump was ahead in the votes.   It's almost like they knew Biden would steal Arizona, too.



Maybe you are wrong about the figures?

*When Fox made its call, Biden was up 9 percentage points in Arizona, a state no Democrat had won in more than 20 years. Almost three hours later, with Biden up 5, The Associated Press followed suit, and because NPR relies on the AP for election results, it meant we too were reporting that Biden had won Arizona.

At that point, an estimated 80% of the vote was in, and Biden was up by a margin of 136,000 votes.

"It was a very comfortable Biden margin," AP political editor David Scott said, noting that Arizona reported about two-thirds of its total vote shortly after 10:30 p.m. ET. "We wanted to see more before moving ahead with a call, so we waited several hours."*


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

smf said:


> The people who omitted it have every right to omit it.
> 
> _In at least two of these meetings of smaller individual caucuses — the LGBTQ caucus meeting and the Muslim Delegates Assembly on Aug. 18 — the phrase “under God” was omitted from the pledge._
> 
> ...



Wow, you're really pulling some weird unrelated shit out of nowhere there.  I was only stating that Snopes is not "bi-partisan" at all and has an agenda for the left as well.   I could not care less for who says, "Under god" or why they don't.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Fox News lost its credibility when it claimed Biden won Arizona with only 10% reporting and Trump was ahead in the votes.   It's almost like they knew Biden would steal Arizona, too.


that claim is verifiably false

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Wow, you're really pulling some weird unrelated shit out of nowhere there.  I was only stating that Snopes is not "partisan" at all and has an agenda for the left as well.   I could not care less for who says, "Under god" or why they don't.


i dont think you know what the word partisan means


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> i dont think you know what the word partisan means


 well, excuse me for making a typo when on my tiny cellphone screen.  So sorry.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> well, excuse me for making a typo when on my tiny cellphone screen.  So sorry.


what word were you trying to say? i get the cell phone thing, typing on gbatemp on mobile is super glitchy for me


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

smf said:


> and because NPR relies on the AP for election results


  oh, how could I be so forgetful.....?   The whole reason this thread exists is because Pedocrats think the AP is the decider of who wins elections.....  derp.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wow, you're really pulling some weird unrelated shit out of nowhere there.  I was only stating that Snopes is not "bi-partisan" at all and has an agenda for the left as well.



You have failed to show that snopes has an agenda, the example you showed seems reasonable if you are willing to be be reasonable.
If you want to be unreasonable then it's your problem.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> As someone who nitpicks the quoting system and cites it as a point
> 
> 
> 
> ...


- None of your complaints show evidence of wide-spread voter fraud.
- None of your complaints show evidence of election conspiracy.
- Trump and his allies have a 1-41 record in post-election litigation because there is no evidence of wide-spread voter fraud or conspiracy.
- Most poll observer allegations are founded on lies. I personally debunked one [here] and [here].


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

morvoran said:


> oh, how could I be so forgetful.....?   The whole reason this thread exists is because Pedocrats think the AP is the decider of who wins elections.....  derp.



You'd have celebrated if Trump had more votes and the news agencies called it though right?
I don't think you would have waited until the electoral college met.

Trump isn't the decider of who wins elections either.

So I'm not sure what your point is.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> - None of your complaints show evidence of wide-spread voter fraud.
> - None of your complaints show evidence of election conspiracy.
> - Trump and his allies have a 1-41 record in post-election litigation because there is no evidence of wide-spread voter fraud or conspiracy.
> - Most poll observer allegations are founded on lies. I personally debunked one [here] and [here].



Try rewriting your comment without subjective adjectives so you aren't framing my claims or concerns.


----------



## smf (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Try rewriting your comment without subjective adjectives.



Please be more vague.

The claim: The DNC omitted "under GOD", is false.
Some people at the convention omitted it, which is not the same thing.

That is not subjective.

Trumps twitter post on the matter is misleadingly wrong too.

The Democrats took the word GOD out of the Pledge of Allegiance at the Democrat National Convention. At first I thought they made a mistake, but it wasn’t. It was done on purpose. Remember Evangelical Christians, and ALL, this is where they are coming from-it’s done. Vote Nov 3!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 22, 2020


"The Democrats" didn't take out anything.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Try rewriting your comment without subjective adjectives.


Still waiting for your evidence when we both know you don't have any.  1-41.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> so you aren't framing my claims or concerns.



Big words coming from someone who loves to put words in peoples mouths


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 3, 2020)

Over the past 5+ months, Donald Trump has:

- Played golf at least *24* times. [citation]
- Attended *0* coronavirus task force meetings. [citation]

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

BREAKING NEWS:

*1-42*

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1334633220684574721


----------



## morvoran (Dec 3, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Big words coming from someone who loves to put words in peoples mouths


At least he didn't say trunalimunumaprzure.  Your idea of a president makes up his own "big words"....


trunalimunumaprzure
Adjeverbnoun: 
• Sound, action, blubbering a demented puppet makes when attempting to spew lies and deceit any time he's in front of a microphone. 
• One who often confuses his sister for his wife. May be seen smelling small children. Prefers Chinese children but will settle for anything under 15. 
• One that's often confused by saying one thing then contraindicating that exact same statement with it's opposite.

• Father of a corrupt US domestic terrorist in a political family money laundering schemer.

Synonymous with phrases such as:

"Cause if you could take care, if you were a quartermaster, you can sure in hell take care runnin' a, you know, a department store uh, thing, you know, where, in the second floor of the ladies department or whatever, you know what I mean?" 
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.” 
"I'm sick and tired of smart guys!"
"I'll lead an effective strategy to mobilize trunalimunumaprzure."


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 3, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> What do you guys think about this website?
> 
> https://hereistheevidence.com/
> 
> ...



I ask specifically about the claims of voter fraud. They present about 125 sourced pieces of evidence with varying degrees of significance and of admissibility-in-court (from 1 to 4 in their classification). Some are statistical anomalies, some are legal background, some are witness testimonies, some are datasets, some are reports of illegitimate votes, and some point to weaknesses in the voting systems (making it more vulnerable to fraud).

Do you (who is reading this) have an opinion on the claims, their existence and their merits?


----------



## Jayro (Dec 3, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> We do not have any verification of ID or eligibility to vote.
> We did not have legal due process allowing mail in ballots in PA.
> We did not have legal and proper poll watchers allowed to do there jobs.
> 
> ...


You need valid ID in order to REGISTER to vote, so what are you going on about? You're hitting that crackpipe a little too hard my guy.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> Please be more vague.
> 
> The claim: The DNC omitted "under GOD", is false.
> Some people at the convention omitted it, which is not the same thing.
> ...


Exactly. People are waking up to religion just being bullshit. We don't want it or need it.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 3, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> They present about 125 sourced pieces of evidence with varying degrees of significance and of admissibility-in-court (from 1 to 4 in their classification).



Quite frankly, if "they" aren't a judge or a lawyer, I don't really care what they say about how admissible in court it would be. Because if "they" were, I don't think they'd be resorting to a crowd-sourced blog where anyone can add anything they want.

In fact, who are "they" even? All they've got on the website is a privacy policy and GDPR statement. WHOIS data predictably provides nothing particularly interesting, aside from the fact that the registrar is a European company, 1API GmbH, and the domain is 23 days old hosted out of Texas with Cloudflare.

Edit - furthermore, if this stuff is so "admissible to court", well... why hasn't it been? There's been 40 lawsuits that clearly didn't have enough oomph behind them to not get shot down.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> This exercise demonstrates that tabzer will support an allegation of election rigging if the evidence *exists*.  I challenged him to provide "evidence" supporting his allegation that the "US govt rigs foreign elections" and he got right to it by sharing a wikipedia article.
> 
> However, when challenged to provide evidence for 2020 election rigging, *he balked*.  Why?  Because the evidence* doesn't exist*.



Because all evidence is contested by opposing parties, ignored, or obstructed.  Getting your stamp of approval is not my point.  My point, which I made several times already, is that the election system needs to inspire faith in its constituents.  You made an appeal to an authority that has history of deceit and misrepresentation.  You called that a conspiracy theory.

So yeah, good on you to circle all the way back to my original assessment.  I have no faith that such an election has happened. I don't have to prove that.  Elections are a matter of faith, and what is more transparent than ever before, is the total lack of it.  Electing a president who promised to weed out corruption in a rigged system, as absurd as that was, was tantamount to admitting that the system is bankrupt on its credibility.  You want to try to recover that from that with Biden?  Ok.  Nice choice.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Elections are a matter of faith


Wtf u talking bout? Election are determined by votes simple math 80million vs 72million ... not faith... that it just a flat out excuse..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Wtf u talking bout? Election are determined by votes simple math 80million vs 72million ... not faith... that it just plan excuses..



People vote because they have faith in the election process.  The election process isn't totally transparent or provably fair, so it is very much about faith.  You are rejecting that?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Because all evidence is contested by opposing parties, ignored, or obstructed.  Getting your stamp of approval is not my point.  My point, which I made several times already, is that the election system needs to inspire faith in its constituents.  You made an appeal to an authority that has history of deceit and misrepresentation.  You called that a conspiracy theory.
> 
> So yeah, good on you to circle all the way back to my original assessment.  I have no faith that such an election has happened. I don't have to prove that.  Elections are a matter of faith, and what is more transparent than ever before, is the total lack of it.  Electing a president who promised to weed out corruption in a rigged system, as absurd as that was, was tantamount to admitting that the system is bankrupt on its credibility.  You want to try to recover that from that with Biden?  Ok.  Nice choice.


"I don't like the participant of the election that won, despite it not even being my country, so I will declare that election false and try to drum up evidence that doesn't exist so I can claim that my way of thinking is correct and try to appeal to a nonexistent majority of people think that the election is fraudulent as well, despite said candidate winning the popular vote. All this while still, again, not having any evidence I will claim a number of injustices and tell anyone they are naive for not believing in my asinine statements and conspiracy theories"

Also, if you have blind faith that something is just going to work out for you, especially an election, you are the naive one. 

Elections are always unpredictable and the only things that shows who won or loss are the numbers and as it stands right now Joe Biden got the popular vote. 

If you ACTUALLY have evidence to the contrary, not a guess, not an assumption, not a gut feeling, then please actually submit it to the courts and anyone else you think might take it. Otherwise you offer nothing and deserve to be ridiculed for it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> "I don't like the participant of the election that won, despite it not even being my country, so I will declare that election false and try to drum up evidence that doesn't exist so I can claim that my way of thinking is correct and try to appeal to a nonexistent majority of people think that the election is fraudulent as well, despite said candidate winning the popular vote. All this while still, again, not having any evidence I will claim a number of injustices and tell anyone they are naive for not believing in my asinine statements and conspiracy theories"



Nice strawmanning and bandwagon fallacy.  Really nailing it.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> People vote because they have faith in the election process.  The election process isn't totally transparent or provably fair, so it is very much about faith.  You are rejecting that?


Yes faith has nothing to do with the concept of an Election .. my faith can not do anything to change 2+2 Into 5. Wether you believe it or not 2+2 = 4 and 80 million is more then 72million. Your feels mean squat to facts


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nice strawmanning and bandwagon fallacy.  Really nailing it.


Explain how it's a strawman then? Was it the lack of evidence you have despite claiming there is some? Is saying that election was false because you personally believe it was wrong the strawman? 

Also, how is it a bandwagon when I already thought you were a baseless conspiracy theorist to begin with?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

Read it again.  Tell me the the part where there needs to be a conspiracy theory.  Getting you accept evidence is not even on my agenda.  You won't even acknowledge that there is evidence unless it is definitive, irrefutable proof--and that's clearly giving you the benefit of the doubt. 

"Because all evidence is contested by opposing parties, ignored, or obstructed. Getting your stamp of approval is not my point. My point, which I made several times already, is that the election system needs to inspire faith in its constituents. You made an appeal to an authority that has history of deceit and misrepresentation. You called that a conspiracy theory.

So yeah, good on you to circle all the way back to my original assessment. I have no faith that such an election has happened. I don't have to prove that. Elections are a matter of faith, and what is more transparent than ever before, is the total lack of it. Electing a president who promised to weed out corruption in a rigged system, as absurd as that was, was tantamount to admitting that the system is bankrupt on its credibility. You want to try to recover that from that with Biden? Ok. Nice choice."

No theory here.  Just a lack of belief, which is why I don't vote and why I don't think your vote matters.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Because all evidence is contested by opposing parties, ignored, or obstructed.  Getting your stamp of approval is not my point.  My point, which I made several times already, is that the election system needs to inspire faith in its constituents.  You made an appeal to an authority that has history of deceit and misrepresentation.  You called that a conspiracy theory.
> 
> So yeah, good on you to circle all the way back to my original assessment.  I have no faith that such an election has happened. I don't have to prove that.  Elections are a matter of faith, and what is more transparent than ever before, is the total lack of it.  Electing a president who promised to weed out corruption in a rigged system, as absurd as that was, was tantamount to admitting that the system is bankrupt on its credibility.  You want to try to recover that from that with Biden?  Ok.  Nice choice.


- Trump winning the 2016 election isn't evidence of 2020 election "rigging." 
- Your lack of faith isn't evidence of 2020 election "rigging."

When I challenged you to provide evidence regarding foreign election interference, you cited a Wikipedia article as evidence.  When I challenged you regarding your claim of 2020 election rigging, you posted no evidence at all.  Color me unimpressed.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I have no faith that such an election has happened. I don't have to prove that. Elections are a matter of faith.


You keep losing any creditably in your argument. Number and facts “Trump” your feelings and faith..


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You won't even acknowledge that there is evidence unless it is definitive, irrefutable proof.


This right here has to be the only thing you have said as true. 

Who the actual fuck would believe in anything unless it is 100% definitive and irrefutable? 

The only people I can think of are the religious (not a dig just a fact) and conspiracy nuts.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> - Trump winning the 2016 election isn't evidence of 2020 election "rigging."
> - Your lack of faith isn't evidence of 2020 election "rigging."



Great, now show me where I said that.  I said America lacks credibility.  I have said that the election is probably rigged and that I believe it was rigged (staged).  But I have also have acknowledged that I am not trying to convince you that it was.  I can't change what you believe.



LumInvader said:


> When I challenged you to provide evidence regarding foreign election interference, you cited a Wikipedia article as evidence



You called my statement a conspiracy theory which was easy enough to remedy.



LumInvader said:


> When I challenged you regarding your claim of 2020 election rigging, you posted no evidence at all. Color me unimpressed.



I don't need you to believe it, or even care if you do.  I already believe that it is likely.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Read it again.  Tell me the the part where there needs to be a conspiracy theory.  Getting you accept evidence is not even on my agenda.  You won't even acknowledge that there is evidence unless it is definitive, irrefutable proof--and that's clearly giving you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> "Because all evidence is contested by opposing parties, ignored, or obstructed. Getting your stamp of approval is not my point. My point, which I made several times already, is that the election system needs to inspire faith in its constituents. You made an appeal to an authority that has history of deceit and misrepresentation. You called that a conspiracy theory.
> 
> ...


Putting all faith into one person to 'weed out corruption in a rigged system' might have been too much to ask for to begin with.

Here is how its set up roughly. Lobbying (corruption within certain confines) is seen as good. Because it informs the political class on 'matters of importance' from the perspective of the interests that also matter most to everyone living a 'decent life'. "If corp is happy, everyone is happy."

That contract kind of got broken along the way. But 'getting rid of corruption' - isnt going to solve the underlying issue. Its kind of a 'diminishing returns' issue. So of course as an institution you need to be held accountable, and for that you need transparency, and thats the 'job' of certain (underfinanced) NGOs, but if you get rid of 'all corruption' nothing much is gained.

So system is set up to allow for some amount of corruption (/collusion), but 'if it gets too much' and people notice, you are getting voted out.

In the US you now had pretty much only 'change' elections for some time now - but if they arent 'decisive' enough (you also getting the power in senate), or if people decide to f*ck over a certain sentiment (Obama, once in office - everything was 'retain the status quo') things stay the same. Even moreso - if there is no accepted vision of what should change - people wont even attempt it.

So two points.

1. People wanted to be like Trump, and liked that he told them, you could do it, just believe in me, and I'll get rid of corruption. Were lead completely astray. Putting all power in one person, and 'hoping for the best' is about the worst thing you can do.

If you want political change in a democracy, you dont do it by 'voting' you do it by coming up with a compelling program - that makes sense, that people would like - and you make it popular. If the best you could come up with is 'drain the swamp' (and 'build a wall' and...), you might be SOL on creating a working society.

(The entirety of capitalism is about creating 'rails' for human self interest and the will to not care about others, before caring about yourself. If your perspective is 'eliminate all the bad parts of peoples power drive' and you are left with all the good parts, you might be naive.)

2. Democracy can be seen as 'merely' a system for peaceful transition of power. If people dont vote - they passively condone the status quo, if not voting is all they do. If they try to 'delegitimize' the current system, than there always is the question 'against what alternative'. And if there is no alternative ('party', societal vision, ...) even elections with only 40% of people turning up for the vote can be seen as 'perfectly legitimate'.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Who the actual fuck would believe in anything unless it is 100% definitive and irrefutable?



People who don't know everything.

Nobody lives by,"if I can doubt it, then I will."

There's no evidence that a free and fair election happened btw.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> People who don't know everything.


I don't know everything, but I would rather have all the answers with definitive proof first instead of just believing or making assumptions based on how I feel.

I can observe that the world is flat from my point of view and I could go on and believe it to be so, but I don't want to wallow in baseless beliefs and ignorance, and if you wish to please feel free, just don't expect everyone to follow you down into the muck.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> I don't know everything, but I would rather have all the answers with definitive proof first instead of just believing or making assumptions based on how I feel.



I suppose that's an ideal.



SonowRaevius said:


> I don't want to wallow in baseless beliefs and ignorance,



/checks thread.

If you say so.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> /checks thread.
> 
> If you say so.


*Checks signature* 

Oh the Irony.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

How so?

Sounds like you are self-loathing.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How so?


That someone that wants to believe in things based on their gut feelings alone would have the audacity to try to call someone out like you just did is laughable. 

You've spent this whole topic presenting cases for fraud and unfairness based off your feels, and you're trying to say I am the one with baseless beliefs and ignorance? Please. 

I can see why no one wants to argue with you, your mental gymnastics and hypocrisy is absolutely astoundingly exhausting.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> That someone that wants to believe in things based on their gut feelings alone would have the audacity to try to call someone out like you just did is laughable.
> 
> You've spent this whole topic presenting cases for fraud and unfairness based off your feels, and you're trying to say I am the one with baseless beliefs and ignorance? Please.
> 
> I can see why no one wants to argue with you, your mental gymnastics and hypocrisy is absolutely astoundingly exhausting.



There you go, strawmanning again.  You being in this thread is the act of wallowing in baseless beliefs and ignorance.  Enjoy your stay.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There you go, strawmanning again.  You being in this thread is the act of wallowing in baseless beliefs and ignorance.  Enjoy your stay.


Study English a bit more, because it seems you don't actually know what a strawman is. 

You literally just said not even a moment ago that you don't believe the election is fair and therefore don't believe that your vote is worth anything. How the is that strawman, honestly? I just repeated your exact point. 

Your best retort is summed up as a "No U", you didn't actually refute anything either.

Now you're just boring me.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Great, now show me where I said that.  I said America lacks credibility.  I have said that the election is probably rigged and that I believe it was rigged (staged).  But I have also have acknowledged that I am not trying to convince you that it was.  I can't change what you believe.





tabzer said:


> You conveniently left out the media. * It is likely that there is widespread voter fraud.*  There's a lot more evidence that the election was a farce than there is evidence that it was free and fair.  I don't see anything compelling of why I should place faith in it.  If you are happy with what you have, then that's cool.  You may believe that a "supposed" election is free or fair until it is "proven" that it isn't.  I can believe that it is free and fair when it can be demonstrated.





tabzer said:


> All of those groups are arms and legs, apart of a single government, *that rigs elections*.  What can I say?  It's an appeal to an authority that demonstrates faithlessness.


Actually, it was earlier today when you claimed that widespread voter fraud is "likely."  When I listed every government agency, state, and court that claimed or demonstrated that the election was fair and secure, you responded by labeling those groups "the arms and legs, apart of a single government, that rigs elections."  If you claim that widespread voter fraud is likely then attack the agencies I cite as evidence, while alleging their involvement in a potential conspiracy, I have every right to challenge you for evidence.  You have none -- end of story.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Big words coming from someone who loves to put words in peoples mouths



Big nothing from soomeone who wont reveal who they accept as a reliable news source and do nothing other endlessly shitpost

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



LumInvader said:


> Still waiting for your evidence when we both know you don't have any.  1-41.



Evidence of what?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Jayro said:


> You need valid ID in order to REGISTER to vote, so what are you going on about? You're hitting that crackpipe a little too hard my guy.



Fact check:  No you don't, You're projecting your crackpipe.  


https://www.headcount.org/voting-faq/what-do-i-need-to-register-t-vote/
_*In most states, if you have neither a current driver’s license or state-issued ID, and have never been issued a social security number, you can still register by indicating on the registration form that you have neither identification number. Some may require an affidavit or other documentation.*_


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 4, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Quite frankly, if "they" aren't a judge or a lawyer, I don't really care what they say about how admissible in court it would be. Because if "they" were, I don't think they'd be resorting to a crowd-sourced blog where anyone can add anything they want.
> 
> In fact, who are "they" even? All they've got on the website is a privacy policy and GDPR statement. WHOIS data predictably provides nothing particularly interesting, aside from the fact that the registrar is a European company, 1API GmbH, and the domain is 23 days old hosted out of Texas with Cloudflare.
> 
> Edit - furthermore, if this stuff is so "admissible to court", well... why hasn't it been? There's been 40 lawsuits that clearly didn't have enough oomph behind them to not get shot down.



That's a fair take on its decisiveness - I'm also unsure if the presented claims would be enough for a legal victory for Trump. On the other hand, there are still ongoing lawsuits, so the real score won't be known until they are all over. In my opinion, such fraud allegations, let it be testimonial, material or statistical, are indeed serious, and should be properly examined. Finally, it is possible that the results were indeed reversed due to fraud but that it isn't provable by the legal standard (the same way an innocent might be pronounced guilty in court and vice-versa).

I think this bit is probably not true: "crowd-sourced blog where anyone can add anything they want". I couldn't find the purposefully fake entry another user tried to add as a test, not even among the 1000 unverified claims which are clearly separated from the others (and which, I don't deny, have a lower bar for acceptance).

And it is indeed almost certainly the person(s) behind the website are pro-Trump and are collecting and curating info from other sources; it doesn't make it an illegitimate enterprise (as the tone of the post might suggest - I might be mistaken), nor it makes them the sole subject of the matter with instantanous dismissal of the evidence presented (which I don't accuse you of).


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> I just repeated your exact point.



You didn't repeat anything, exactly.  You said what sounds easier to dispute--strawman.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Big nothing from soomeone who wont reveal who they accept as a reliable news source and do nothing other endlessly shitpost



Dude I don't know what your problem is or why you're so obsessed with what news outlets I regard as trustworthy. All I said is that I don't think anyone had recently quoted CNN and you pulled bullshit out of thin air. What the hell are you going on about?



fischermasamune said:


> On the other hand, there are still ongoing lawsuits, so the real score won't be known until they are all over. In my opinion, such fraud allegations, let it be testimonial, material or statistical, are indeed serious, and should be properly examined.



Agreed that accusations should be investigated - a stance that I hold across the board for all kinds of legal proceedings. However, at what point does this become a "boy who cried wolf" situation? We've got endless accusations of "widespread voter fraud" with no substantial evidence (read: facts, things that have been proven to have actually happened), nothing evidence-wise officially submitted to courts, no arrests records, nothing. What we do have is 41 lawsuits, all but one of which have been thrown out, and the one that succeeded didn't even have anything to do with votes being fraudulent. When does it become ridiculous? 400 lawsuits? 4000 lawsuits? 400000000000000000000? Do we just keep hearing lawsuits about this until the heat death of the universe?

That's not an answer I have, obviously, nor do I think it's really one that you or I could even have any meaningful input on anyway. But you've got to agree that at _some _point, enough _has _to be enough, doesn't it?



fischermasamune said:


> Finally, it is possible that the results were indeed reversed due to fraud but that it isn't provable by the legal standard (the same way an innocent might be pronounced guilty in court and vice-versa).



Sure, but if that was the case, we'd also never know - or at least there's a chance we'd never know at a point where it's going to impact much of anything. Why is the overarching attitude from the right that THIS election, for some reason, has to be proven to have NOT been fraudulent, where it's pretty well accepted that every other election in this nation's history hasn't been fraudulent, rather than the burden of proof being on them being to prove that it WAS fraudulent, as it goes with everything else. This goes back to my point, and that of MANY others, that _there has been no evidence found of widespread voter fraud, and the DOJ and Attorney General concluded the same._



fischermasamune said:


> I think this bit is probably not true: "crowd-sourced blog where anyone can add anything they want". I couldn't find the purposefully fake entry another user tried to add as a test, not even among the 1000 unverified claims which are clearly separated from the others (and which, I don't deny, have a lower bar for acceptance).



You'll have to forgive me for not slogging through this entire... thing, but here's a few examples I found of why this is unreliable at best. ctrl+f the claims.

Claim: [email protected]
Source: https://hereistheevidence.com/I requested an absentee ballot and mailed it-The Dept of state said they have no record of my request for a ballot.I voted for Trump and do believe my ballot was thrown out.In 2016-three times when I voted for Trump ,the machine would switch to Democrat and I had to get the supervisor to correct it.Two of my friends said they had same problem with the voting machines.When I called Luzerne to tell the problem, they said they never had a problem which I knew was not true

Claim: Donald Trump has a tiny cock
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...trump-salacious-detail-and-claims-of-cheating

Claim: Voting machines are susceptible to occasional random bit flips due
Source: https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/attack-of-the-cosmic-rays-v2

Claim: President of Ghana
Source: https://www.bitchute.com/video/RaYsgpGVGblY

Claim: Biden under performed Hillary in every city but 6
Source: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattv...yes-i-think-this-election-was-stolen-n2579970

Claim: Biden did NOT underperform Hillary in all but 6 cities
Source: https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...nly-improve-in-four-major-swing-state-cities/



fischermasamune said:


> And it is indeed almost certainly the person(s) behind the website are pro-Trump and are collecting and curating info from other sources; it doesn't make it an illegitimate enterprise (as the tone of the post might suggest - I might be mistaken), nor it makes them the sole subject of the matter with instantanous dismissal of the evidence presented (which I don't accuse you of).



Building off of the above, that's kind of the crux of it, isn't it? Does the lack of any information on who's running it make it an illegitimate enterprise? No, it's pretty clearly a website that's doing its self-prescribed job of collecting user-submitted info. Does it make it worthy of instantaneous dismissal? I'll give a reluctant "no" to that too. But you've got people who don't know how to properly fill out two text fields on a submission form, things that are obvious troll, things that are wholly unrelated, and blatantly conflicting information. You don't know who's submitting these things, you don't know who's running the website, you don't know who's determining the "admissibility", you don't know who's calculating the "significance", you don't seem to have anyone doing anything to prevent obviously bunk info from getting submitted. For a party who's so concerned over the fact that there wasn't enough transparency or accountability in this election, it's quite a stark contrast to see the total opacity and anonymity that this website is fronting. If I'm not supposed to trust something that objectively had more transparency and accountability (the election) then why should I put any faith in something (the website) that has none of that? I'd say how this website as a whole has as much credibility as 4chan, but that's what got us these dumbasses who believe in Qanon.

"hereistheevidence" - No, here's a list of random bullshit, find something that fits your narrative.

Edit - I knew I forgot something. With regards to: "I couldn't find the purposefully fake entry another user tried to add as a test, not even among the 1000 unverified claims which are clearly separated from the others"

I don't even know that anything on here IS being verified, least not by the owner(s) of this website. And if it is, then again... who?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Actually, it was earlier today when you claimed that widespread voter fraud is "likely."  When I listed every government agency, state, and court that claimed or demonstrated that the election was fair and secure, you responded by labeling those groups "the arms and legs, apart of a single government, that rigs elections."  If you claim that widespread voter fraud is likely then attack the agencies I cite as evidence, while alleging their involvement in a potential conspiracy, I have every right to challenge you for evidence.  You have none -- end of story.


There is a problem with your appeal to authority.  I have already explained that.  It is likely that their word is unreliable.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Dude I don't know what your problem is or why you're so obsessed with what news outlets I regard as trustworthy. All I said is that I don't think anyone had recently quoted CNN and you pulled bullshit out of thin air. What the hell are you going on about?



Because the endless circular argument that been a theme in this thread.

*There is no evidence > Evidence > "I don't trust that source" >  Okay who is a reliable source  > ...............    >   There is no evidence.*


But making sure no matter what is presented you still have an excuse to shit post is the real priority.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Because the endless circular argument that been a theme in this thread.
> 
> *There is no evidence > Evidence > "I don't trust that source" >  Okay who is a reliable source  > ...............    >   There is no evidence.*
> 
> ...



This post makes no sense at all and has no relation to what I was talking about. There's zero relevance at all here. Again, all I said was that nobody had cited CNN as a source recently but that I was open to being proven wrong, which you still haven't done. That's it. I don't know what your problem is but please, you need help, please see a professional.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You didn't repeat anything, exactly.  You said what sounds easier to dispute--strawman.


Then run it down for me. Because from what I saw in your own words, and it's there, Lum just quoted it so you can't say "I didn't say that": 

-All branches of the government are supporting corruption

-Because of this you feel that the election was a fraud 

-Because of that you feel like the vote doesn't matter. 

So what is wrong here exactly, please do let me know.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> This post makes no sense at all



I imagine it doesn't when you just roll in to shit post without any idea what had transpired previously.  

From now on I am just going to call you Donny.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I imagine it doesn't when you just roll in to shit post without any idea what had transpired previously.
> 
> From now on I am just going to call you Donny.



I still don't understand what you're going on about. Honestly, I don't think you know what you're going on about at this point either. I legit kind of feel bad for you, dude.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Agreed that accusations should be investigated - a stance that I hold across the board for all kinds of legal proceedings. However, at what point does this become a "boy who cried wolf" situation? We've got endless accusations of "widespread voter fraud" with no substantial evidence (read: facts, things that have been proven to have actually happened), nothing evidence-wise officially submitted to courts, no arrests records, nothing. What we do have is 41 lawsuits, all but one of which have been thrown out, and the one that succeeded didn't even have anything to do with votes being fraudulent. When does it become ridiculous? 400 lawsuits? 4000 lawsuits? 400000000000000000000? Do we just keep hearing lawsuits about this until the heat death of the universe?


You dont understand - here is what those people are filled with. 





"The smoking gun is something we dont understand, but what could It be - you decide."

"The amounts of votes that could have been fraudulently added was 18k, which is exactly how many voted Trump lost by - do you see the connection?"

"We cant have a recount, because that would just mean, that the fraudulent votes will be counted again" (so what do you want?)

Can you prove, that those were fraudulent votes? No. Can you qualify 'who blond lady' was who sent everybody home? No. Can you show graphs of how 18k votes only for Biden entered that states vote reporting at that time? No. So all you have is a videotape, where you see 'someone' does 'something'. And you tell your audience that it is of high importance that they also watch the source clip because - OMG, the KRAKEN!

One question, do you also do journalism in your free time, or is all of your time invested in spreading partisan internet rumors?


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> You dont understand - here is what those people are filled with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





That's what an audit is for.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> All branches of the government are supporting corruption



All branches of government are apart of a corrupt government.  Phrasing it as if they were autonomous is disingenuous.



SonowRaevius said:


> Because of this you feel that the election was a fraud



Wrong.  Because of this, there is no compelling reason to believe them.



SonowRaevius said:


> Because of that you feel like the vote doesn't matter.



I don't think our votes matter because I don't believe that there is a free and fair election.  I can't even entertain trust.

On a side note, I think there was widespread voter fraud.  I think the case will be long and drawn out, eventually with him being right.  Maybe with him leaving the WH anyway.  We'll see.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> That's what an audit is for.


Hey - correct.  Which means, you are out for a repeat election in that district.

Now do the same with different accusations in enough districts to topple three other states, where the difference in votes is not 18k, but several 100k.

And make it sound like its all a very distinct conspiracy - dont you see?

To start with. If you are 'journalism' find out who the lady was. FInd out why they had authority to 'send those people home' find out, why they complied. Try to interview the lady.

Try to find vote reporting figures that show, that in that timeframe you added 18k Trump votes (which should be extremely unlikely).

Try to find evidence, that those were actually votes.

Dont pronounce 'smoking gun' when you dont know anything. Telling viewers, you decide what this is 'for yourself', but it is very important that you watch video. The future of the US might depend on it.

I mean no wonder that people are so amped up ready to convince others of 'not sure what they just saw, but fraud, fraud indeed'. This is online rumors, the TV channel. With 'you the detective' telling other people to join you in finding out what you just saw! But its important!


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Hey - correct.  Which means, you are out for a repeat election in that district.
> 
> Now do the same with different accusations in enough districts to topple three other states, where the difference in votes is not 18k, but several 100k.
> 
> ...




Don't need to.   Between the fraud of changing electoral process's outside of valid authority due to Covid and refusal by progressives for decades to verify citizenship, residence etc.  I have already made up my mind and deemed Biden and the election illegitimate well before needing to address the ballot fraud.

I realize this may be a foreign concept to a communist but our elections are only as strong as bipartisan faith in the process, which at this point no longer exists.

Election voided.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Don't need to. Between the fraud of changing electoral process's outside of valid authority due to Covid and refusal by progressives for decades to verify citizenship, residence etc. I have already made up my mind and deemed Biden and the election illegitimate well before needing to address the ballot fraud.


Yeah, but thats not possible.

Again if you change electoral process - does this lead to subsequent fraud? No - not if you use methods that are shown to prevent it (for as long as people dont start to 'sell their votes' (to employers f.e.)) - f.e. mail in ballots.

Second - its not progressives who have refused to verify citizenship or residence for decades. Its conventional interest having underfunded voting bureaus for centuries as a means of controllign how many votes come from what district. (Less staff, less voting bureaus per district, ...)

Third - 'automatically removing people from voter lists' by running them against national databases of people that have died. Is not a simple automated process. That just someone refused to do. Its something that doesnt exist as an automated process. And that also doesnt negatively impact anything. The forwarding of personal data to voting offices isnt as 'null problemo' as you make it seem. (False negatives in that process, to what benefit?)

AND FOR THE LAST TIME. If your scheme of 'stealing the election' depends on sending out ballots to different adresses, and then painstakingly making sure, that 18k+ of those are sent to dead people at addresses they still inhabit, where someone with a fake ID might have to sign to get into posession of the ballot.

Just to find out, that it wasnt 18k votes you needed but 19k...

You are an absolute idiot, moron, dummy, when it comes to 'planning a national takeover'.

You are Pinky in Pinky and the Brain.

So what, now for next time you organize 1000 more home addresses for dead people to life in, and manage the reception of individual ballots, just to fint out that you needed 20k this time?

Oh you flipping moron.

How close it will be in a state can be anticipated about 2 weeks before an election.

You organize 18k dead people on lists living on 18k active home adresses in two weeks, go.

But you just know - that this is what happened, because "you dont accept the authority" of the person who said, lets send out more mail in ballots?

??1?

Drunk?

edit: Here is how delisting works (in Bumblecrock Neverheardof):


> Officials in Buncombe County said there are monthly checks of death certificates done with the state once a month, and more frequently as an election approaches. They said there are also death notice reviews involving the county Register of Deeds. "We do have a very concerted program, very robust program, to try to keep those rolls as clean and perfect as we can," Trena Parker, with the Buncombe County Board of Elections, said. Local elections officials said they occasionally run into problems when a person still registered here dies out of state and no one is notified.


https://wlos.com/news/local/how-are-names-of-deceased-people-removed-from-voter-rolls

Here is the followup question. How are dead people on voting registries becoming a problem?


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Yeah, but thats not possible.
> 
> Again if you change electoral process - does this lead to subsequent fraud?



We have legal process's in place for changing electoral process and people with the authority to do so, in the case of PA that is the state senate.   They did not authorize mail in ballots.  Rules were violated.



> Second - its not progressives who have refused to verify citizenship or residence for decades.



Progressive platforms have opposed voter ID laws all across the board, this is not a secret or disputed by anyone in mainstream thought. 


Opium?


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

Yes crack. Here is why.

I dont believe that rules were violated. You show me.

Progressives have opposed voter registration laws for decades, yes. That doesnt mean, that you dont need a valid ID (or a verified home address) to vote.

That just means, people who would show up with IDs (showing that they are a citizen), werent allowed to vote, because they werent 'preregistered'.

It is known, that 'preregistering in time' is a hurdle for many disenfranchised communities, who then basically "dont vote" - because 'its too much work'. (Its also known, that voter registers were 'magically cleansed' of 'black sounding names' in several instances, shortly before an election. Causing people not being able to vote.)

That doesnt mean that you want to destroy democracy (have people vote without any form of ID). I mean what do you think the progressives utopia is? Voting, then going out, running around the block, then voting again, because you didnt have to show anything?!? Blubbbu?

So now progressives are both about not having people need to preregister to vote AND preregistering all those dead people to engage in a scheme that doesnt make any sense at scale?

Now republicans havent defunded election districts for years, just so now they can say 'their registration lists arent perfectly in order'?

I mean you moron think - that progressives were out to destroy democracy 'basically for decades' while you are delegitimizing the integrity of the voting system for no f*cking reason. So you re destroying peoples trust in democracy - but are blaming other people for having done something unrelated (fought against the need for voter registration), that you dont understand?


And once more - explain to me, how that many 'dead people on lists' become a problem. Because thats the part thats never answered in all those 'brain transplant' not quite media stations, that tell you to be very vigilant, and watch the video for yourself, what do you think - is it fraud? Is it an office party? You decide.

So you should have no opinion on how 'too many dead people in voter registries' matter. Hows your imagined way to exploit that.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Fact check:  No you don't, You're projecting your crackpipe.


To register online you do, you have to enter your social and your ID/License number. At least here in WA state and Oregon, I've lived in both.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Yes crack. Here is why.
> 
> I dont believe that rules were violated. You show me.



The state senate of PA is the only one with the authority to allow mail in voting, they did not authorize it.  You can put down the opium pipe and do it yourself.

The President of the United States also addressed this.






> Progressives have opposed voter identification laws for centuries. That doesnt mean, that you dont need a valid ID (or a verified home address) to vote.



You do not need ID to vote or be verified as a citizen.

https://www.headcount.org/voting-faq/what-do-i-need-to-register-t-vote/

_*In most states, if you have neither a current driver’s license or state-issued ID, and have never been issued a social security number, you can still register by indicating on the registration form that you have neither identification number. Some may require an affidavit or other documentation.*_




> So you re destroying peoples trust in democracy



The only people who destroyed faith in the election are those that opposed verifying voters legitimacy and pushed forward with mail-in ballots in the face of opposition and protest.  They were told, now you can consider it destroyed.

Going forward you can consider the vast majority of Trumps 75 million voters to do everything we can to delegitimize this election, Biden, the government as a whole and any policy shift enacted by his administration.   The word of the day and every day will be *illegitimate*, followed by non-compliance.

If you are sincere in trying to remedy this division the only thing that would be accepted by this swath of the populace is a thorough audit of the contested states and nullification of any ballot casted through and illegal change in process.

Now is there anything unclear about my position to you that requires you to keep talking?




Jayro said:


> To register online you do, you have to enter your social and your ID/License number. At least here in WA state and Oregon, I've lived in both.



Instead of arguing you could just put down the pipe and read the official government website on voter registration.

https://www.headcount.org/voting-faq/what-do-i-need-to-register-t-vote/

_*In most states, --->  if you have neither a current driver’s license or state-issued ID, and have never been issued a social security number, you can still register <-- by indicating on the registration form that you have neither identification number. Some may require an affidavit or other documentation.*_


----------



## Jayro (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> The state senate of PA is the only one with the authority to allow mail in voting, they did not authorize it.  You can put down the opium pipe and do it yourself.
> 
> The President of the United States also addressed this.
> 
> ...



Election fraud still didn't happen, or there would be evidence by now.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I realize this may be a foreign concept to a communist but our elections are only as strong as bipartisan faith in the process, which at this point no longer exists.
> 
> Election voided.


If this was a thing, Obama would have still been President. 



tabzer said:


> All branches of government are apart of a corrupt government.  Phrasing it as if they were autonomous is disingenuous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, would you be making this same argument, if he had won just like 2016? "I don't trust the government. I think Biden still has a chance!"


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Election fraud still didn't happen, or there would be evidence by now.



Yes it has.

*2 charged with voter fraud in Southern California*

I'll wait while you move the goal post or change the subject.


----------



## laudern (Dec 4, 2020)

Goodbye wheels, the broken cart won't be needing you any more. 

I'm interested to see how the metal gymnastics can be applied to this video.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

laudern said:


> Goodbye wheels, the broken cart won't be needing you any more.
> 
> I'm interested to see how the metal gymnastics can be applied to this video.




Easily, you must be new on this thread,  refusal to investigate incidents by partisan authorities means they didn't happen to the progressives in this topic.

They will just flat out claim it is a right wing fabrication using photoshop that there is a suit case even present.  There is so much gaslighting in this thread I am at the point I refuse to accept a election has even occured.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> So, would you be making this same argument, if he had won just like 2016? "I don't trust the government. I think Biden still has a chance!"



The last election I believed was with Bill Clinton.

I can't really imagine Trump cheating with bipartisan support, but it's possible that is what happened in 2016.  I doubt he is going to do what he said he would do.  But he might.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You do not need ID to vote or be verified as a citizen.
> 
> https://www.headcount.org/voting-faq/what-do-i-need-to-register-t-vote/
> 
> _*In most states, if you have neither a current driver’s license or state-issued ID, and have never been issued a social security number, you can still register by indicating on the registration form that you have neither identification number. Some may require an affidavit or other documentation.*_


And?

I dont think an affidavit is enough, really. "Some other form of documentation" should mean 'documentation of the sort you need for a valid id in the first place'.

Also "the president also thinks so" in this day and age is not a valid source for 'show me that those people didnt have the authority".

The effing rambling 'most important speech I've ever made' that he distributed through facebook was exactly that, an effing rambling speech on facebook, that wouldnt have been distributed by anyone if he didnt go 'lets blast it over social media channels'.

AND BY SHOW ME THAT THEY DIDNT HAVE THE AUTHORITY, I meant, show me anything I can work with. Not link me to a nother f*cking 50 minute sililoque, you hold as gospel.

Show me something that refereces whats going on, Pinky, using legal texts, using people involved, using statements of where the overreach happened.

Dont show me 'I believe what the president says' these days - because that makes you a moron.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> And?
> 
> I dont think an affidavit is enough, really. "Some other form of documentation" should mean 'documentation of the sort you need for a valid id in the first place'.
> 
> ...




No.  Google it your fucking yourself.  Been discussed, common knowledge.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> No.  Google it your fucking yourself.  Been discussed, common knowledge.


F*ck you, the burden of proof is not on me.

Second asshole move to made to f*ck with everyones mind in here:

What is an affidavit ballot?
https://www.wilc.org/affidavit-and-provisional-ballots/ F*cker.

Here is your mode of operation:

"But it would be extremely hard to get an ID for dead people."
"Yes, but they dont need any, they just need some documentation."
"Yes documentation of the kind that would get you an ID in the first place:"
"But they wouldn't even need that, they just would need to give an affidavit."
"Yes triggering people that do all the checks on wether they have the required documentation afterwards."

So you take everything out of context, you f*ck with peoples minds, on what is needed (effectively and ID, or all the things you would need to get one), and then you say 'buth theoretically - no ID'.

You know what? F*ck you. And now I'm watching 50 minutes of Trump rambling on social media again, just to find out what you mean by 'didnt have the authoitääääääää', my president also believes.

F*ck you.

Also stop insisting that every act of kindness and understanding on behalf of 'ok, you might not have your ID with you' is a portal of massive voter fraud - if none of this is proven to be the case. I can insinuate, "dark forces" all day - that doesnt mean If I'm doing so I have a grip on reality. With Trump, sometimes it only means - I want to f*ck with your head.
[/QUOTE]


jimbo13 said:


> *2 charged with voter fraud in Southern California*
> 
> I'll wait while you move the goal post or change the subject.


Are you death? Dumb? And blind? Where is the MASSIVE prefix you throw arround all day long, except - when as proof you come up with two. 2. Duo. Not tres?

Also dear sir, this is the same effing case you brought up before, where an idiot and his friend rented out 3 mail boxes to try to game 'getting elected as the mayor' of some town in the boondocks.

There are checks in place to "catch" 3000-8000 ballots going to 3-4 addresses. Those people get caught. Pinky. Thats not a proof for potentially successful voting fraud. Especially not in the presidential election (as they werent registered for the presidential election).

Thats just proof of the power of insane minds to warp yours.

YOU ALREADY KNEW THAT. I ALREADY CONFRONTED YOU WITH THIS. NOW A WEEK LATER YOU ARE SPREADING THIS SHIT AGAIN?

Here: https://www.latimes.com/california/...l-ballots-for-nonexistent-or-deceased-persons


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

laudern said:


> Goodbye wheels, the broken cart won't be needing you any more.
> 
> I'm interested to see how the metal gymnastics can be applied to this video.



Lead you by two hours at least. I was the first one posting the video together with 'look at the bullsh*t those people are fed'.

Its not visible if this is voting fraud, or an office party - and of the channels "reporting on it" no one even found it necessary to find out who 'blond lady was'. What she was telling people "in the office", what her opinion on this was. What the legal opinion on 'that happening' was. If it wasnt an office party.

Don't feed us with 'gumshoe - you be the detective, dont you see!!!"!' shit anymore. Be more concise.


edit:

*Fact Check: Video From Georgia Does NOT Show Suitcases Filled With Ballots Suspiciously Pulled From Under A Table; Poll Watchers Were NOT Told To Leave*
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...der-a-table-after-poll-workers-dismissed.html

Please learn for once in your life, that if you are fed a story - where none of the actors are identified. You may be fed BULLSHIT.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> ID arguments.



You need a ID to get a job, drive a car, pick up a package, buy cigarettes, enter a bar, pawn a watch, register for schools, enter the DNC convention center or just about anything else.

If you don't have a basic level of responsibility to have proof of who you are you are not smart enough to be filling out your own ballot or be making an informed decision.  You are being exploited by a ballot harvester telling you whom to vote for.

You are not a responsible coherent person, you have no business participating in a process that effects peoples lives and families and I don't give a fuck if you are disenfranchised.  Get your shit together and come back.

*Lack of ID laws, citizen verification is the #1 issue undermining faith in our elections.*


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You need a ID to get a job, drive a car, pick up a package, buy cigarettes, enter a bar, pawn a watch, register for schools, enter the DNC convention center or just about anything else.
> 
> If you can't have a basic level of responsibility to have proof of who you are you are smart enough to be filling out your own ballot or be making an informed decision. You are being exploited by a ballot harvester telling you whom to vote for.
> 
> ...


Can you read? With affidavits you get a provisional voting slip, with people looking into if you are allowed to vote afterwards.

As for 'other documentation' read this:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-verification-without-id-documents.aspx

Also this is not a 'comet has struck earth revelation' this has developed in the US historically.

If you have close to 50 independent legislations on voting laws in the US, dont complain about 'but they dont all require voter ID'. Dont show the posibility of those systems being exploited (in your dreams), show them actually being exploited.

Just putting forward nightmare scenarios doesnt help anyone.


edit: If you can find me specific fraud that happend in those specific states with provisions for Non-Documentary ID voting - good on you. Then you might have something. If not - then stop insinuating.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Can you read? With affidavits you get a provisional voting slip, with people looking into if you are allowed to vote afterwards.



I've voted in 8 states, never miss an election.  Never have needed to present ID so you can save the argument.

If we had Voter ID laws we could run an entire audit of all 150 million ballots in a few hours and no doubt from anyone reasonable would exist.

I'd have to double check this but Arizona is the only state in the union that checks citizenship.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I've voted in 8 states, never miss an election. Never have needed to present ID so you can save the argument.
> 
> If we had Voter ID laws we could run an entire audit of all 150 million ballots in a few hours and no doubt from anyone reasonable would exist.


You still need to read. Obove are ALL the states listed, that dont need you to show ID, before voting. All of them and the measures they employ to ensure you are allowed to vote regardless.

Now cross reference those with the states that are challenged for 'vote having been fraudulent' by the Trump team this time arroud, and bring me concrete cases, where those provisions have lead to massive coordinated fraud.

Dont bring me 'a feeling'.
----------

President video:

At: 03:20 into the video:
"Voting ballots were sent to millions unknown recipients, with virtually no safegards of any kind."

Virtually is a qualifier in this case - which means, there were safeguards in place.

At 04:00 into the video
"Mail-in ballot laws were brought into action without going through the legislative body. Those were unconstitutional."
Thats what some of the Trump lawsuits are about. The ones where he is 40:1 on losses:wins:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...me-court-block-pa-election-result/3785564001/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...fight-includes-over-30-lawsuits-it-s-n1248289
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/us/politics/trump-election-lawsuits.html

So his interpretation of constitutional law, certainly isnt the courts interpretation.

At 04:30 - California sent out millions of ballots to people who didnt even request them (and some dead people within that as well - probably).
Yes - but safety measures were in place: https://www.capradio.org/articles/2...in-california-amid-covid-19-attacks-by-trump/
and Trump isn't challenging the voting results in california. So this is pure FUD.

At 05:00: "It is widely know, that sending out voting ballots to people that havent requested them leads to widespread fraud, as those lists are filled with people who - dont live in the state anymore, are dead, or illegal migrants.

If you dont maintain an active address - because you a. left the state, or b. died - there are checks in place to suss that out:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...unted-in-past-u-s-elections-but-many-did-not/
Why would they be partisan?

If you are on a voter registration list, you had to have to proof legal citizenship at one point.

At 05:15 Voter registration records are riddled with errors, duplicate entries, ... Yes, and that doesnt matter. Because you need a person, who 'has something, or knows something (signature)' in addition to one such record, (coming in - and/or requesting a mail in ballot to an address on the record) actually trying to fraudulently vote. To coordinate that for 18.000+ cased under risk of being sent to prison on part of ever single one of them - is close to literally impossible - and we have seen no evidence, that this is taking place.

At 05:30 Several of counties have more people on voter registers, than voting age citizens. Yes, voting registers arent well maintained. But to get onto one, you had to prove 'voting eligibility' at one point. And there are checks in place to catch if someone voted fraudulently, at least at some point in the voting chain.

At 05:50 100.000s of voters on several list couldnt be confirmed in terms of having their residency in that county, but officials refused to remove them from the lists. Yes - in case they are voting, which would trigger an identity check in those cases.

"They knew why (they did that), nobody else did. I knew why. They are illegal voters."

I'm sick of listening to this shit. And I'm only 6 minutes in - there is another 40+ to go. I cant bare it anymore - it is 'snowflakes quest ont sh*ting on every potential source of fraud, failing to prove any 'structural abuse potential'.

Its vicious attacker listing 20+ possible instances of minute abuse possibilities, without letting the other side speak (as to how they are dealt with), or actually showing that they were abused.

You have a loose canon at the helm, that if he cant be pronounced 'the winner' is destroying any believe in american democracy, without any poof - that would hold up in courts.

I hate to have to bring it down to a 'but courts say" argument, but seeing all the nafarious energy that is put into instilling fear and doubt in people - I have to, there is no recourse.

Many of the things he is addressing can be seen as issues. Many of them have mitigations in place, so they dont become a structural issue. Many of the issues the is addressing are mostly imagined. Most of the issues he is addressing arent possible to exploit 'for one political side only or mostly' (you can coordinate abuse).

Petes list of what is not perfect in democracy, is an impressive list - but thats all it is.

Wake me when you have something like -- republicans removed all black sounding names from a voting register in Florida.

So something where one persons actions really has the potential to impact 1000s of votes.
Or show me the massive collusion network with 18k+ actors that lives hidden within american democracy. That only votes against Trump - when exactly 18k votes are needed.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Don't bring me a feeling




I didn't realize I had assumed the obligation of proving it to you.

75 million+ Americans don't believe our election was fair,  that's enough for me and enough to make a Biden administration irrelevant.

That said,  I am aware there are 50 different complicated jurisdictions, and I reject the notion that there are proper safe guards.  I have been politically active for 15+ years working almost exclusively on ballot reform issues.  I highly recommend  *www.whytuesday.org 
*
I vote almost exclusively third party and independents, which I have accepted along time ago wouldn't win without ballot reform and access. 

So on that note you are preaching to the wrong choir trying to convince me that our election system isn't fundamentally broke & fraudulent.

This Camels been limping since approximately the Ford administration, 2020 is the straw that broke it's back.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I didn't realize I had assumed the obligation of proving it to you.
> 
> 75 million+ Americans don't believe our election was fair, that's enough for me and enough to make a Biden administration irrelevant.


Believes dont cut it, if your president is going on facebook, giving a 50 minutes press conference, listing all the things that could go wrong, and his legal believes of 'constitutional violations', which are struck down in courts.

You have a mad man at the helm, trying to tell you here are all the vulnerabilities. All of them were used by my enemies at once - this is why I lost.

People believe authority figures. But you have to show cases where this stuff actually happened. Moreso - you have to show 'coordination' between those cases - otherwise -- "it happened on both sides, and potentially cancels itself out".

You cant just say - the system is f*cked in so many ways - this is why I lost. And then provide no proof on actual coordinated mishandling of large numbers of anything, that could lead to widespread fraud.

If you are trying to add up all cases of 'human error' and 'identified weaknesses', at least dont do it 'only for one side'.

If you say you have video, that shows that at a certain time, 18k of democrat votes were stuffed into the system, then also show, that at that time vote count reporting showed 18k democrat votes being stuffed into the system. And show it in that county. Not somewhere else in the country, and then go on a 'but it might have happened there as well' tangent...

Dont puzzle together your case of voting fraud - from "all potential sources of voting fraud" and personal believes or feelings.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> You cant just say - the system is f*cked in so many ways - this is why I lost. And then provide no proof on actual coordinated mishandling of large numbers of anything, that could lead to widespread fraud.



You act as if these complaints, objections and protesting of our election system are new.  We just didn't come up with this shit on a whim on Nov, 10th and have no prior experience, anecdotal observation or previous participation too say, "Nah bruh this shits broke I am done."

And the bottom line here is *we are done.
*
75 million people for right or wrong believe they have been disenfranchised and they do not intend to just aimlessly keep participating in the status quo, I do not claim to know what shape that will take but a great musician once said _*"I can feel it in the air tonight."*_


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> You act as if these complaints, objections and protesting of our election system are new.  We just didn't come up with this shit on a whim on Nov, 10th and have no prior experience, anecdotal observation or previous participation too say, "Nah bruh this shits broke I am done."
> 
> And the bottom line here is *we are done.*


You act like those are new, and coordinately abused to hurt Trump.

For the first time ever, in history. Because it took Trump to find out that 'provisional ballots' existed (no), or that there might be dead people on voter registries (no), and they were only abused to hurt him, him, him, him, him him him and him personally. Because he was so loving to the people, but hated by the elites. F*ck that. What a sick game to play. Make those accusations when you have ANYTHING that shows coordinated abuse of those provisional systems, or 'imperfect systems' being abused to target one side predominantly. If you dont have anything like that - dont f*ck with peoples minds, on the bases of 'but it could have happened'.

(Statistical likelyhood of zero, but "You cant proove a negative. Also you cant prove that god doesnt exist." Yes thank you - we understand...)

When most of them cant even be coordinated. When most of them are based on or are fallbacks for 'human error' (I've forgotten to bring my ID, what now? > Provisional ballot).

Most of them should affect both sides of the vote. You have to bring ANYTHING forward, ANYTHING, that shows, that those were used for coordinated fraudulent action.

Dont just point at the enemy crab and tell people they can attack its weak point for massive damage.

Wolf, wolf, that house could be on fire! Wolf! i dont have to prove that it is... 75% of americans.... wait for it.... believe! (Number might not be accurate.)


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> You act like those are new, and coordinately abused to hurt Trump.
> 
> For the first time ever, in history. Because it took Trump to find out that 'provisional ballots' existed (no), or that there might be dead people on voter registries (no), and they were only abused to hurt him, him, him, him, him him him and him personally. Because he was so loving to the people, but hated by the elites. F*ck that. What a sick game to play. Make those accusations when you have ANYTHING that shows coordinated abuse of those provisional systems, or 'imperfect systems' being abused to target one side predominantly. If you dont have anything like that - dont f*ck with peoples minds, on the bases of 'but it could have happened'.
> 
> ...




Not true, I felt and was angered when they fucked Nader, Perot, Paul & Sanders to.

Sanders not so much, he took the lake house and shut up like a good little toadie.

And make no mistake in mine and others intent, we are going to proverbialy burn it to the fucking ground before putting up with a lick of shit from Biden.

Order of importance : Being free of Biden DNC policies > USA.

I am looking forward to things being 1966 interesting.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Not true, I felt and was angered when they fucked Nader, Perot, Paul & Sanders to.
> 
> Sanders not so much, he took the lake house and shut up like a good little toadie.


Trump:

"It is a travesty - that in 2020, we dont have the means to identify all those people on those voting registers, on such an important election, and to tell - who they are and..."

Wake me up, when there is a census drive next year that reaches 100% of people, and you have enlisted enough voting place workers to check each and every american - to make sure that fraud in every individual case is virtually impossible.

It starts with a census doesnt even reach all people ( https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/does-the-census-actually-count-everyone-and-should-it ) and the acknowledgement, that democratic systems are not autocratic inteligence operations keeping tabs on every citizen. Refusing to them the right to vote - in an absolute sense - and thereby filling your entire court system with people having to protest against such a decision. Alert! Peter Mueller moved out of state, so have a system that informs authorities to remove his elegibility rights at 12:00pm sharp. Might not be the goal here.

At the same time - acknowledge, that many people focus on finding potentials for coordinated fraud. Where one person, could actually affect many votes. Those are statistically relevant. Those would allow you to turn elections. Those would be possible to be maintained over several years - and set in place more than two weeks before the election, when you start to know what the 'key battlegrounds' are going to become.

Dont point at 'humans arent perfect' and demand 'someone fix my computer'. Because computers are perfect. In the year 2020.

If you are doing that, you !%&#(§/, you are instilling in people an image to demand 'a perfect system', where 300 million people can be spot checked at a whim. And records are able to be kept pristine...


What you absolutely should do - is point out instances, where one persons actions have the capability to affect the outcome of many votes (lets say - removing all black sounding names from the voter registry in a precinct).

And please acknowledge, that its much harder to get 18k+ people to vote twice, knowing that they will go to prison if someone finds out they do that coordinately. Compared to what Trump just demanded - which is 'if you cant contact 100.000s of voters to verify - that they are still in the state' - just remove them from voting lists, they are illegals.

Its always easier to 'suppress votes' than to solicit people to sneak by saveguards to vote twice, knowing, that they are ommitting a crime. Youd almost have to convince them individually to take that personal risk. While removing 100.000 people from voter registration lists, would just be 'an administrative act'. Condoned by the Trump administration. Patriotic even. If you think about it... *sarc*


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> snip



No, it starts with progressives not purposely keeping the system broke because they were trying to get illegal aliens on the roles.

This is why we can't have good ID, good Census or really get in to the business of who has legal entitlements here.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> [QUOTE="notimp, post: 9286027, member: 101990"
> 
> No, it starts with progressives not purposely keeping the system broke because they were trying to get illegal aliens on the roles.


Where it starts is part of a blame game. The rebuttle then is - why aren you giving me the funding.

Again - this is not a centralized operation with automatically cross referenced databases, this is voter bureaus having to check individual cases for eligibility, 'pinged' by 'someone with that name born at that age died' in some cases (where socialsecuity ID numbers arent available). Those cases should become fever and fever over time.

Social security number was phased in starting in 1943.
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...615/purpose-having-social-security-number.asp


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 4, 2020)

This entire mess wouldn't have occurred if the U.S., the world's leading superpower and an absolute technology giant, deployed an electronic voting system based on crypto. It's not like we don't have the technology - crypto transactions cannot be altered or reversed, tokens cannot be created or destroyed once issued. One eligible voter = one token = one vote, it's not rocket science. The current system is not needlessly complicated, it's complicated on purpose to make audits unfeasible. I can't believe that we have thousands of people counting paper ballots and pencil pushers (poorly) adding numbers from glorified ATM's that a child aged 11 was able to hack in 10 minutes. DEFCON's Voting Village issues a warning in regards to the U.S. eVoting systems every single time, and every single time ES&S, Dominion and now-defunct Premier "reassure that everything is peachy". I'm not surprised confidence in the results is shockingly low - it should be low, the way election night was conducted, the slow pace of counting and the whole shabam in general was laughable. America needs Voter ID in every state and a voting system that's not a joke, preferably ran by the fed itself as opposed to external contractors. Every county does things differently for no reason, uses different machines, nothing is compatible - what a nightmare.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Yes it has.
> 
> *2 charged with voter fraud in Southern California*
> 
> I'll wait while you move the goal post or change the subject.


Nobody is moving goal posts. Trump is insinuating that there is MASSIVE voter fraud of MILLIONS of voters, not two. There's just no way.


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## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Nobody is moving goal posts. Trump is insinuating that there is MASSIVE voter fraud of MILLIONS of voters, not two. There's just no way.



I drew a diagram to help you understand how you litterally moved the goal posts.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I drew a diagram to help you understand how you litterally moved the goal posts.


I would consider "massive" fraudulent votes in the tens of thousands. Or hell, even under ten thousand. Is that good for you? How about that? If we find at least 10,000 fraudulent votes, your big daddy Trump can have his seat back. Sound good to you? Ya fuckin' troll.


----------



## smf (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I drew a diagram to help you understand how you litterally moved the goal posts.



No, I have clearly and repeatedly said that there are people who did dodgy stuff during the election. It happens in every election and there will be people on both sides. But it's so insignificant that it makes no difference to the result. That isn't moving the goal post, you've just not been paying attention to where the goal posts were.

Is this actually related to the presidential election though, the guy seems to have done this to try to get himself elected as mayor.

https://abc7.com/8000-fraudulent-voter-registration-applications-filed-in-la/8046531/

And he got caught. So I think your celebration is as premature as Trumps.


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 4, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> You'll have to forgive me for not slogging through this entire... thing, but here's a few examples I found of why this is unreliable at best. ctrl+f the claims.
> 
> Claim: [email protected]
> Source: https://hereistheevidence.com/I requested an absentee ballot and mailed it-The Dept of state said they have no record of my request for a ballot.I voted for Trump and do believe my ballot was thrown out.In 2016-three times when I voted for Trump ,the machine would switch to Democrat and I had to get the supervisor to correct it.Two of my friends said they had same problem with the voting machines.When I called Luzerne to tell the problem, they said they never had a problem which I knew was not true
> ...



I don't think this is a fair analysis. The website (https://hereistheevidence.com/) collects, groups and rates evidence of voter fraud and irregularities (in the 2020 US presidential elections). It has 46 claims they give maximum confidence (they rate it 4 in significance admissibility in court), about 80 claims they give some confidence (not two 4s in rating), and about 1000 which they say are simply unverified, but they publish in a list named "Unverified (new submissions)". It is a poor argument to pick 5 of those 1000 unverified claims as representative of the whole.

Perhaps a better representation of what the website presents - which is likely the work of one or more Trump supporters organizing information and not the ultimate authority in voter fraud and the lack thereof - would be to take the 46 pieces of evidence they have maximum confidence and see what their "strength" is. (46 pieces at the moment I write, it might increase or decrease in the future.)

I decided to take a pseudo-random sample of 20% of those 46 claims. To make up 20%, I picked the entries 3, 8, 13, 18, and so on, until the 43th of those 46, forming a list of 9 (almost 20% of total).

Here is my 20% sample, with sources (remove the spaces in each link). Anyone is free to delve deeper and take their conclusions on their merits, their trueness, their validity and their relevance.

3rd: 2,689 fraudulent addresses used in GA and PA
Source: http s://yout u.be/XH9ihoL i1NA?t=1756

8th: 40,000~ mail-in ballots were cast in the names of deceased voters in PA
Source: http s://hereistheevidence. com/fact-list/pa-009b20
[Based on website which is currently offline, http s://chec kyourvote.org/deceas ed-voters/pennsylvania. It is kept in this list because it is a statistical/procedural error to remove it after the choice of pseudo-random sample.]

13th: 40 of CO's 64 counties have more voter registrations than voting-age citizens
Source: http s://ww w.judic ialwatch.org /press-releases/co-voter-rolls/

18th: Mail-in ballots were "returned" for counting before they were mailed
Source: http s://twitter.c om/VC4351/status/132553847 0593400832

23th: 132,000 "Change of Address" flags in single GA county
Source: htt ps://twit ter.com/Pe oples_Pundit/status/1325869245146816518

28th: 18,000~ hidden ballots retrieved and counted during evacuation
Source: ht tps://ww w.libe rtariannews.org/2020/12/03/cctv-capture s-ga-ballot-fraud-after-fake-pipe-leak/

33th: 2,600 new votes found in county's recount
Source: h ttps://ww w.ajc.co m/politics/georgia-recount-unco vers-2600-new-votes-in-presidential-race/I75NSPYYGNF43HQZBPYKJWJ5MA/

38th: 234 pages of sworn affidavits for election irregularities from single county
Source: ht tps://twitter.co m/kayleighmce nany/status/1326634874988617729

43th: ES&S misrepresented their machines as EAC Certified to US officials
Source: htt ps://ww w.poli tico.com/f/?id=000 00173-e9b5-d0bf-a17b-fdbfc0290000


----------



## laudern (Dec 4, 2020)

notimp said:


> Lead you by two hours at least. I was the first one posting the video together with 'look at the bullsh*t those people are fed'.
> 
> Its not visible if this is voting fraud, or an office party - and of the channels "reporting on it" no one even found it necessary to find out who 'blond lady was'. What she was telling people "in the office", what her opinion on this was. What the legal opinion on 'that happening' was. If it wasnt an office party.
> 
> ...


Lol I love how you believe typing 'fact check' in bold and the presenting an opinion piece article is your way of dismissing this evidence. Stick to the narrative no matter what, hey bud? I did want to see what mental gymnastics would be used to discredit this video and I wasn't disappointed, that's for sure.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> This entire mess wouldn't have occurred if the U.S., the world's leading superpower and an absolute technology giant, deployed an electronic voting system based on crypto. It's not like we don't have the technology - crypto transactions cannot be altered or reversed, tokens cannot be created or destroyed once issued. One eligible voter = one token = one vote, it's not rocket science. The current system is not needlessly complicated, it's complicated on purpose to make audits unfeasible. I can't believe that we have thousands of people counting paper ballots and pencil pushers (poorly) adding numbers from glorified ATM's that a child aged 11 was able to hack in 10 minutes. DEFCON's Voting Village issues a warning in regards to the U.S. eVoting systems every single time, and every single time ES&S, Dominion and now-defunct Premier "reassure that everything is peachy". I'm not surprised confidence in the results is shockingly low - it should be low, the way election night was conducted, the slow pace of counting and the whole shabam in general was laughable. America needs Voter ID in every state and a voting system that's not a joke, preferably ran by the fed itself as opposed to external contractors. Every county does things differently for no reason, uses different machines, nothing is compatible - what a nightmare.



There is no good reason to have an electronic election held behind the closed-source propriety code of a 3rd party.  That is beyond negligent.  It is malicious.  The Republicans and the Democrats, alike, generally don't like leaving anything up to chance--so it's likely that they broker candidacy and negotiate who is going to win, with a shared agenda of making the government more important in people's lives, and more lucrative. 

As for the blockchain/crypto solution.  There are privacy concerns, doxing concerns, that come with being pinned on a blockchain.  People generally don't want the world to know who they are voting for.  So, there needs to be a way for people to maintain their privacy,  a way to prove who they voted for, and a way to to account for voting population.  Digital voting machines that read results, and that can override the output is just the loophole necessary to keep admin status over the course an election.  They only have one function-and it's sold under the pretext of "convenience".  Yes it is very convenient.  It has likely been working as intended.  Seeing that they are connected to the internet, they can do their work from home.

I think it is a better idea, going with crypto solution if not paper.  It would be easier to count, and it has the potential to being independently verified by anyone.  But is it better for the politicians?  Not yet.  I'm hoping that it will be.


----------



## notimp (Dec 4, 2020)

laudern said:


> Lol I love how you believe typing 'fact check' in bold and the presenting an opinion piece article is your way of dismissing this evidence. Stick to the narrative no matter what, hey bud? I did want to see what mental gymnastics would be used to discredit this video and I wasn't disappointed, that's for sure.


First I dint type fact check in bold I literally copied the articles headline, and the forum auto formated.

Second, if you want to play the vicious being, that would rather post videos, when they are entirely lacking of context, when f*cking nefarious sources known for peddling unfounded conspiracy theories in the past do it - URGING every moron to 'look for themselves' and interpreting 'what that might be there on their own' (post in the comments, like and subscribe) -- literally stopping at 'blonde women' as a descriptor for who is in that video, then get out.

"Blonde women told everyone to go home, that there would be no counting." SAYS WHO? THERE IS NO AUDIO ON THE VIDEO. BLOND WOMEN WORKED THERE, WHY ARE YOU PUTTING IT OUT THERE BEFORE EVEN KNOWING HER NAME? WHY ARENT WE GETTING QUOTES FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE THAT ARE IDENTIFIED AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THEIR FUNCTION (if you try to protect their personality rights) - WHY IS THE ORIGINAL SOURCE TELLING PEOPL "this is a smoking gun" - AT THE SAME TIME IT IS TELLING THEM IT HAS NO IDEA WHAT EXACTLY IS HAPPENING ON THE VIDEO, YOU _HAVE TO_ WATCH IT YOURSELF.

Could it be that the source plays you - and tries to get you to participate in a game of wasting your time, at the end of which you simply _cant_ allow anyone to tell you that you wasted your time? Its called farming user engagement. The best evangelists for any story are born that way.

The fact check site AT LEAST HAD THE ACUMEN, to call up the voting officials in that county, and speak with the people in that room on what their positions where, and what happened from their perspectives, not just promoting a silent CCTV video with no context - spinning out the potential actions of 'nafarious blonde women'.

F*ck you for falling for that shit on that level (the were literally no names attached to the video, there was literally the phrase 'smoking gun > but not sure whats, there > what do you see in that video' attached. And f*ck you three times over for sharing that shit.

Journalism starts with doing background checks on material you've gotten. If you just want to share a video and the conspiratorial story thats attached to it on social media. Stay on social media.

Also how dare you to try to remedy all of this with a personal attack.

Thats the issue here - you have literally a deranged legal team pulling up all kinds of nonsense at this point, getting beat down in almost every case in court - AND SOMEHOW you manage to pull up even worse conspiratoral stuff, thats not even passing the 'first attempt to vet this test'. Thats entirely out there only to trap functional idiots. That never gets a second of court time, because of obvious reasons - and you are willing to bet your reputation as a 'sharer' of online information on 'blonde women wheeled in suitcases', what do you think?

Hey - if you are not seven years old, please consider what you are doing, the entire atmosphere currently is insane enough.

(As in normally you expect those kind of reputation attacks from foreign actors, not from the president of your country.)

Also read the article, not just the headline - there is a timeline attached to the video of who shared it first, and what they said to get people riled up over it.

They also spoke with the official election monitors.

The F*CKING agitprop meme spreading channels didnt.

And you 'very special person' stoped at the headline and accused me of writing factcheck, and then threw a tantrum.

In the current climate - why WHY is nobody thats so concerned about the content in this video, they are not absolutely certain on, just suing the voting commision in that county?

Answer:

Because there is a difference between 'the court of facebook' and a 'criminal court' as in - facebook only lives to be driven into a conclusion using contexture and emotion. What really happened really is just in the way at this point.

You want to see this as a proof of something - you dont care what the people in the video actually said, or did, you unload on the person actually providing you that context - BECAUSE YOU COULD NOT BE WRONG.

"Do you think if you just put factcheck and then..." Then read, the effing factcheck. Read whats in there. Read what the people actually said. Read what gutterpunk first manufactured this to be something it ultimately turned out not to be. READ.


edit:

Also first you release that 'Information' to the public, and then you say you will file a lawsuit?


> But at the second hearing of the day the attorneys for President Trump said that they intended to file a lawsuit in Fulton County to change the election results.
> 
> The attorneys said they had evidence “that tens of thousands of ineligible voters cast ballots in the election. And they called on the General Assembly to send a slate of electors to Washington who would elect Trump as president,” The AJC said.


https://usaherald.com/breaking-georgia-governor-kemp-calls-signature-audit-election/

What exactly are you doing here?

You delay, you spray effing vitreol, you let the public decide first, and courts later? You dont follow up on who is in the video and what they said, you release it via conspiracy peddlers - and then what? Hope for the best in court?

edit2:

Another far right news source at least got the names of the actors, and the first reactions of the political pundits.
https://www.ntd.com/georgia-state-f...ulling-out-suitcases-with-ballots_535817.html

The fact check website still got more.

edit3: Election official reaction (different news source):


> A video Donald Trump’s campaign alleged was “smoking gun” evidence that secret “suitcases” of ballots went counted without observers, has been dismissed by Republican election officials.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ia-suitcase-video-ballots-trump-b1766363.html


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## Driving_duck (Dec 4, 2020)

Even then, trump is actually doing a disfavor to the republicans. Since there are no MASSIVE voter fraud, (might be maybe in the hundreds, at best) republicans in georgia are not gonna vote for the republican senators, since they think that its rigged. So, because of this, most likely us demos will be getting the majority of senate again because of the republicans!


----------



## smf (Dec 4, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> 3rd: 2,689 fraudulent addresses used in GA and PA
> Source: http s://yout u.be/XH9ihoL i1NA?t=1756



A few things come to mind here.

1. is this actually true? there have been a lot of convenient errors in their investigation, where addresses were claimed to be in different voting districts or people who voted were claimed to be dead because of bad data matching.

2. is this just a sign of people who are into some shady shit, but are legitimate voters?

3. is this important enough to affect the election? It seems kinda odd that someone would go to the hassle and only try to introduce such a small number of votes.

4. Maybe these are fraudulent votes for Trump.

The way I see it. There are so many cranks desperate to come forward because they want Trump to win and Rudy is desperate to try to use them because he wants Trump to win, that it's turned the whole thing into a circus. This is normally Trumps strong point, get his opposition to implode while chasing their tails. But now it seems to be their strategy. I don't see how it is going to pay off.

Saying there was fraud before election day really hurt his position.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 4, 2020)

“If you look at the vote totals in the Electoral College tally, it looks like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will prevail. I assume the electors will certify that and it will be official. We, as a nation, will move forward, because we always do.”- *Kellyanne Conway 12/4/20*
she is talking like she already accepted Trumps lost.
They seem to be dropping one by one...

 and it looks like Pence is starting to distance himself... I guess he wants to have a Political career after this 
Sad! "Four more years!" chants at Pence's rally in Georgia. Pence doesn't respond to them. pic.twitter.com/VIAsV51TRM— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 4, 2020


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## mammastuffing (Dec 4, 2020)

djpannda said:


> “If you look at the vote totals in the Electoral College tally, it looks like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will prevail. I assume the electors will certify that and it will be official. We, as a nation, will move forward, because we always do.”- *Kellyanne Conway 12/4/20*
> she is talking like she already accepted Trumps lost.
> They seem to be dropping one by one...
> 
> ...



Yeah. But imagine the dilemma they're in. Perhaps destroy their career by going against the president and call him out for being a jackass with bogus accusations. Or just jump on the clown wagon, save your career but look like a jackass.  Must be tough.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 4, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There is a problem with your appeal to authority. * I have already explained that*.  It is likely that their word is unreliable.


Your explanation defies logic and common sense.  Distrust in authority is one of the hallmarks of conspiracy theory belief.  Your appeal to authority counter argument implies that I'm wrong to trust the government because of a possible or "likely" conspiracy scenario involving notable Trump appointees behaving politically opposite of their appointments, which includes:

- *The Federal Courts*, which includes every-single-Trump-appointee who has judicated his lawsuits
- *The Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI)* -- led by a Trump appointee
- *Department of Justice (DOJ)* -- led by a notably loyal Trump appointee
- *Department of Homeland Security (DOH)*, led by a Trump appointee

Also involving Republicans from:

- *Red state governments* such as Georgia & Arizona
- *State courts* across the USA

As well as conspiracy involvement from election officials affiliated with both parties:

- *Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC)*
- *Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA)*
- *National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS)*
- *National Association of State Election Directors (NASED)*
- *Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council (SCC)*

What you're implying is bat-shit crazy paranoid delusional nonsense with no realistic probability of happening.


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## jimbo13 (Dec 4, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Your explanation defies logic and common sense.  Distrust in authority is one of the hallmarks of conspiracy theory belief.  Your appeal to authority counter argument implies that I'm wrong to trust the government because of a possible or "likely" conspiracy scenario involving notable Trump appointees behaving politically opposite of their appointments, which includes:
> 
> - *The Federal Courts*, which includes every-single-Trump-appointee who has judicated his lawsuits
> - *The Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI)* -- led by a Trump appointee
> ...




Da comrade, large entrenched bureaucracy are never prone to corruption or oppression of there people.


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## LumInvader (Dec 4, 2020)

Three more court decisions in today, one of which* accused Mark Zuckerberg* of fraudulently casting tens of thousands of ballots.  All three cases were dismissed or denied.  Who are they going to blame next, Anthony Fauci or Greta Thunberg?


Trump and his allies lost all three cases and are now *1-45* in post-election litigation:

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1334999006292959232


----------



## tabzer (Dec 4, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Your explanation defies logic and common sense.  Distrust in authority is one of the hallmarks of conspiracy theory belief.  Your appeal to authority counter argument implies that I'm wrong to trust the government because of a possible or "likely" conspiracy scenario involving notable Trump appointees behaving politically opposite of their appointments, which includes:
> 
> - *The Federal Courts*, which includes every-single-Trump-appointee who has judicated his lawsuits
> - *The Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI)* -- led by a Trump appointee
> ...



No it doesn't.  Common sense is that politicians lie, and logically it is not unreasonable to assume that a government that cheats other elections would be capable or find incentives in cheating its own.  You want to pretend that all these branches of government are autonomous?  Well, that's illogical.  You want to argue that Republicans are all loyal politicians who would not betray Trump?  Well, since when?

You put a lot of emphasis on bandwagonning and ad-hominem. It's ok to not trust the government.  It's not unreasonable.  If you feel like that must mean that you are wrong, that's you and your conscience.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 4, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Da comrade, large entrenched bureaucracy are never prone to corruption or oppression of there people.


 *I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords*


----------



## notimp (Dec 5, 2020)

More follow up on the CCTV 'suitcase' video:
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No it doesn't.  Common sense is that politicians lie, and logically it is not unreasonable to assume that a government that cheats other elections would be capable or find incentives in cheating its own.  You want to pretend that all these branches of government are autonomous?  Well, that's illogical.  You want to argue that Republicans are all loyal politicians who would not betray Trump?  Well, since when?
> 
> You put a lot of emphasis on bandwagonning and ad-hominem. It's ok to not trust the government.  It's not unreasonable.  If you feel like that must mean that you are wrong, that's you and your conscience.


Alleging that Trump appointees from across the spectrum are behaving politically opposite of their appointments -- while committing felonies -- is a better definition of illogical.  With *no evidence* to support your conspiracy claim, all you have is a *presumption* of conspiracy.  You boldly claim that we can't trust a government that has rigged foreign elections, but your claim *lazily ignores* the conspiracy element necessary to rig the 2020 election.

Weakening that claim even further, you've also *failed* *to show evidence* of conspiracy involvement in prior US Presidential elections.  Go ahead and show me evidence where a political party conspired against itself to elect a US President from the opposing party.  You claim that politicians lie, but you have offered *no evidence* that the politicians or judges you're accusing of conspiracy are lying.  You suggest that the branches of government are subjugating to the will of a single entity, yet you've once again offered *no evidence* that this total farce of a scenario is taking place.

I should remind you that a conspiracy is "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."  A conspiracy _theory_ is when you have* no evidence* that a conspiracy exists.  Claims that the 2020 election was rigged in a conspiracy involving Trump political appointees and judges isn't just a *baseless* conspiracy theory -- it's lunacy.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 5, 2020)

BREAKING NEWS:

*Biden officially secures enough electors to become president*
https://apnews.com/article/election...oral-college-3e0b852c3cfadf853b08aecbfc3569fa


> California certified its presidential election Friday and appointed 55 electors pledged to vote for Democrat Joe Biden, *officially handing him the Electoral College majority* needed to win the White House.





> Secretary of State Alex Padilla’s formal approval of Biden’s win in the state *brought his tally of pledged electors so far to 279*, according to a tally by The Associated Press. That’s just over the 270 threshold for victory.





> “As a practical matter, *we know that Joe Biden is going to be inaugurated on Jan. 20*,” said Edward B. Foley, a law professor at Ohio State University.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

Entertaining conspiracy theories and believing in them are two different beasts.  People entertain conspiracy theories because there is already distrust.  



LumInvader said:


> Alleging that Trump appointees from across the spectrum are behaving politically opposite of their appointments -- while committing felonies -- is a better definition of illogical



If it is illogical, then don't do it.  There is no "better definition of of illogical".  It's not a spectrum.  The word is "unlikely"  If you want to invent your own conspiracy theory and then call it unlikely, then go ahead and do that. 

While we are at it, let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence".  What you want is "proof".  Use the word "proof" instead of baiting people for evidence that you will never accept. 

I'm free to believe what I believe, and think about what could have happened.  I have plenty of reason to not trust the US government.  I know what a conspiracy is.  The question is, is it "unlawful" if there is no prosecution?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> While we are at it, let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence". What you want is "proof". Use the word "proof" instead of baiting people for evidence that you will never accept.







You really don't have a good grasp on the english language do you bud?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> View attachment 236822
> 
> You really don't have a good grasp on the English language, do you bud?



Pretty sure you are missing something if you can't tell the difference between evidence and proof.  Asking for evidence and rejecting it because it isn't proof is as disingenuous as saying that "there is zero evidence."


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *While we are at it, let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence".*  What you want is "proof".  Use the word "proof" instead of *baiting people for evidence that you will never accept*.


Try again.


LumInvader said:


> Ok, can you provide evidence of the above allegations?





tabzer said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention
> That's the list.





LumInvader said:


> I see, *so supporting your allegation with evidence is important to you*.  Now can you provide evidence that the 2020 US election was rigged?  You know, since evidence is suddenly so important to you.


If you had evidence you *absolutely* would've shared it by now.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Try again.



"Let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence". What you want is "proof". Use the word "proof" instead of baiting people for evidence that you will never accept."



LumInvader said:


> If you had evidence you *absolutely* would've shared it by now.



What do you think I am trying to prove?  I've seen evidence and points raised in this thread and I see how it gets shut down as "not good enough" or dismissed because of the publication it appeared in, or ignored.  I've seen them dismissed because things like Poltifact is revered as some final authority, when it makes conclusive statements regarding fact based on the premise of "plausible deniability", or even worse, just denial.

Let's look:

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/

Assertion:  "No, Georgia election workers didn’t kick out observers and illegally count ‘suitcases’ of ballots"

Reasoning:  People disputed it.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Pretty sure you are missing something if you can't tell the difference between evidence and proof.  Asking for evidence and rejecting it because it isn't proof is as disingenuous as saying that "there is zero evidence."


Considering most people use "proof" and "evidence" interchangeably in the real world quite often, even in legal setting, you are arguing semantics. 

But let's go with your fells over facts definition for a minute. 

Most of the presented "evidence" has been proven false by the courts, people have provided "evidence" that they have been proven false, but yet you continue to believe that the "evidence" existence is proof enough that there is corruption despite it being proven false. For instance, if this were a case where the murder weapon was a revolver, but you brought in a shotgun shell as "evidence" it would be thrown out as clearly false "evidence", but still drumming up that it is evidence so it shouldn't be ignored. 

Also, no one in the topic is saying it doesn't exist either, just that is false or has an extremely likelihood of being false considering the sources. Sorry, but you can't constantly lie about things and pull off hoaxes and expect to be trusted easily by the public again. As it stands though, every bit of "evidence" that has been brought into this topic has been proven false though, so why you're still fighting against that is beyond me. 

It's fine if you don't trust the government or the outcome, but feelings do not equate to the facts of the matter. 

Why wanting things to be 100% proven as true is a bad thing for you is beyond me, but you do you.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Considering most people use "proof" and "evidence" interchangeably in the real world quite often, even in legal setting, you are arguing semantics.



Backpedaling.  You literally posted the definition of "proof" as if it contradicted what I said and took a jab at my English comprehension.  Asking people for proof is unreasonable.  It's not realistic to think that this is the place where the case is going to be settled.



SonowRaevius said:


> Most of the presented "evidence" has been proven false by the courts, people have provided "evidence" that they have been proven false



Dismissing a case because the evidence isn't strong enough is not the same as "proving evidence false". Rejecting evidence based on publications is not "proving evidence false".  Denying allegations is not "proving evidence false".



SonowRaevius said:


> It's fine if you don't trust the government or the outcome, but feelings do not equate to the facts of the matter.



Please quote me where that is implied by myself, and I will demystify it for you.



SonowRaevius said:


> Why wanting things to be 100% proven as true is a bad thing for you is beyond me, but you do you.



Disingenuous.  %100 is always the goal, but we have to spend time with less than that.


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/
> 
> Assertion:  "No, Georgia election workers didn’t kick out observers and illegally count ‘suitcases’ of ballots"
> 
> Reasoning:  People disputed it.



I tried to learn more about the claim. It appears this election official Richard Barron has changed his claims about what happened that night, which gives less credence to his denial.

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-ne...ctions-operations/EVCBN4ZJTZELPDHMH63POL3RKQ/

(...)
Though quickly criticized by the county chairman, Barron said he sent almost all of his staff home because some were tired to the point of being “counter-productive.” And so GOP observers left because they thought counting was done for the night. But five county workers stayed to process more ballots until 1 a.m.
(...)

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/

(...)
"No announcement was ever made to leave, for anyone to leave," Barron said. "Certain staff that were on the cutting stations, that were on the flattening stations, that were extracting from the inner envelopes, those staff left as work completed. I found out sometime, I think a little after 10:30, that they were going to cease operations, and I told them not to do that."

"It was normal processing that occurred there," said Barron, who added that the plastic bins shown in the video were "bins that they keep under their desks near the scanners."
(...)


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> Though quickly criticized by the county chairman, Barron said he sent almost all of his staff home because some were tired to the point of being “counter-productive.” And so GOP observers left because they thought counting was done for the night. But five county workers stayed to process more ballots until 1 a.m.



Too bad politifact already determined what the facts are.  I wonder if they rate that false as well because they already promoted contradictory evidence and made a final judgement on it.

"Truthiness."


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence". What you want is "proof". Use the word "proof" instead of* baiting people for evidence that you will never accept*."


I literally just documented for you where* I accepted your evidence* regarding foreign election interference [here].  How can you be this effing dense?


tabzer said:


> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/
> 
> Assertion:  "No, Georgia election workers didn’t kick out observers and illegally count ‘suitcases’ of ballots"
> 
> Reasoning:  People disputed it.



Fulton County election officials and the Republican Governor *both debunked* your Facebook conspiracy theory.  From the same article:


> Officials said that there was never an instruction for observers to leave, and that there were no ballots full of suitcases. *The bins in the video were standard ballot containers*, and the footage shows what officials described as the normal tabulation process.


Do you have evidence that these weren't ballot containers?  Do you have evidence that the Republican Governor and Fulton County election officials are involved in this alleged conspiracy?

Still waiting for evidence that demonstrates:


> - A political party conspiring against itself to elect a US President from the opposing party.
> - Wide-spread conspiracy involvement in prior US Presidential elections.
> - Wide-spread conspiracy in the 2020 election.



Due to time constraints, all future responses from me will be limited to discussing the three demands listed above.  If you present counter evidence regarding the ballot containers, I may respond to that also.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I literally just documented for you where* I accepted your evidence* regarding foreign election interference [here]. How can you be this effing dense?



Nice platitude.  What is so genuine about disputing history, and graciously accepting my "evidence"?



LumInvader said:


> Fulton County election officials and the Republican Governor *both debunked* your Facebook conspiracy theory. From the same article:



I can read politifact.  My complaint is about them.  Not about what you think about "things", or how you try to defend them by shifting the burden on to me, a reader who is on the reception end of their asserted "facts".



LumInvader said:


> Do you have evidence that these weren't ballot containers? Do you have evidence that the Republican Governor and Fulton County election officials are involved in this alleged conspiracy?



"Let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence". What you want is "proof". Use the word "proof" instead of baiting people for evidence that you will never accept."



LumInvader said:


> Still waiting for evidence that demonstrates:



Well, you are going to be waiting for a while, because I have no interest in convincing you.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *Well, you are going to be waiting for a while*, because I have no interest in convincing you.


Correction: You have no evidence to convince me with.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1335008491237482496
LOL @ 1-46

What kind of crappy record is that?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Correction: You have no evidence to convince me with.


No.  You just aren't that interested/interesting.


----------



## ertaboy356b (Dec 5, 2020)

Welcome to USA, Province of China. lol


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No.  You just aren't that interested/interesting.


I may not be very interesting, but I am* very interested*.  Show me the money!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

If you were interested in that, and not in me, you'd be in a totally different place doing your research.  I don't have anything particularly groundbreaking or original to offer, and it was never my intention to prove truth to the assertion that "the election is rigged" or to the assertion "the election was not rigged". I am in the camp that thinks it is probably rigged, and my biggest concern is the use of a cloaked electronic vote tallying system in place of more transparent alternatives that already exist.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

ertaboy356b said:


> Welcome to USA, Province of China. lol


Via "plausible deniability".


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Via "plausible deniability".


This message brought to you buy two folks that bring 0 or falsified evidence to arguments and believe in things based on gut feelings.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 5, 2020)

Does the Chinese government call them fact checkers to?


----------



## notimp (Dec 5, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Does the Chinese government call them fact checkers to?


Neg to insist that the US is china, because your leaderfigure (coincidentally not the leaderfigure of the US anymore) said so?


----------



## rensenware (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Let's not pretend that you even care about "evidence". What you want is "proof". Use the word "proof" instead of baiting people for evidence that you will never accept."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The people asked to leave were envelope snippers that had already finished their jobs. Observers did not leave and were not asked to. The suitcases contained official ballot containers with rollers, contained in suitcases because of how heavy they are. Them being temporarily stored under the table is not out of the ordinary. I've obtained this information from the Georgia hearings where it was presented by the Trump campaign, and can get a few clips or timestamped links to it if you need it.


----------



## notimp (Dec 5, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I've seen them dismissed because things like Poltifact is revered as some final authority, when it makes conclusive statements regarding fact based on the premise of "plausible deniability", or even worse, just denial.


Is this a 'are you five years old'? problem again?

Yes - please dont trust any publication because of a title.

But if you try to promote scepticism in a case, where the going narrative was 'blond women did something - election fraud" Its important that everyone watches. You watch - you decide what you see. Was it criminal fraud?  Based on 'what the Trump laywer that leaked us the video said" - then lock yourself in a storeroom and eat the key.

Fact checking platforms were the f*cking first ones that even tried to confirm the story, that spoke with the representatives, that interviewed the people in the room.

While bumblef*ck facebook craycray army of -- 'I think EPOCH TIMES be great newssource" F*CKERS, tried to spread videos that qualified this as 'the smoking gun', but at the same time stated, that they didnt know exactly what was in the video, and that you should watch it and "make up your own opinion".

Here is the game. Teach people how to be 'media literate'. And if they want to spread rumors - and ultimately lies - hit them in the face. Otherwise they dont learn.

And this also goes for you - if you side with bumbblefuck litterally took video, and what lawyer told them, did nothing else, and sold that as important and scandalous to their viewers.

F*ck those sources. And if you are defending them - you know what fallows.
---

I personally HATE the factcheck circute. Because its a concept set up on following F*CKING morons, and fixing the world behind them. The self conception of every facebook user sharing that crap is, that they are a vigilant bright citizen, and that everything they choose to platform must be important. The concept of fact checking platforms is to tell them how much of an idiot they are. The reaction is - it cant be. The outcome is - nothing changes, least of which is self perception. And people at fact checking platform become cruel self loathing, balls of hatred and anger, that just assume that they are better at 'getting at the truth' - using a simple phonecall, because they are dealing with the utmost trash of human society every day - in terms of communication output.

The solution is actually not to pander to dubf*cks, but to hit the F*CKING morons of people sharing that crap in the mouth so hard, that they start to notice, what effing morons they are - by following a few simple rules. As in: Did someone actually do a followup on the rumor I'm sharing to all my moron friends, because I have feeling. Is a story substantiated, what was the source, is the story plausible, is there actual content, or is it just emotional bait, is someone telling me how to feel about a thing (at which point its commentary, and not news anymore).

And if the F*CKING moron public still posts shit with the entire messaging being 'smoking gun, blond women did something - your ballots are in danger! Look at the silent video, the boxes were UNDER the table! Dont you seee!?', then hit them in the face, hit them in the face, until nothing comes out anymore. (Figuratively speaking. Verbal 'violence' not actual one). Because they will never change their sharing behavior, or look up a better source, or source quality - if you leave them in the believe, that they are benefiting their group cycle - by simply being the first to share something scandalous.

So saying - dont believe in something just because it has the word 'factcheck' in front of it is fine. People are too stupid anyhow to see, that this already is a 'charity play' on their behalf, where people spend money, so society becomes barely bareable, they also will never say thank you - because someone factchecked them. How dare you to question their feelings! They will never find the already patronizing nature of factchecking 'inspiring' enough to change their believe, or media consumption behavior. Or independent enough to be 'entirely trusted'. And its not.

But they will also - never become better news consumers until you show them what f*cking morons they are. If your impetus is to share something, thats not objectified, and just an extension of a rumor mill. And this thing has 'the elections were manipulated' in it - get hit in the face, over, and over again, until it hurts. So the next time, you check first if this passes the minimum standard of news reporting (as in someone followed up and actually tried to find out what happend).

You can pick your media sources freely. But you have to have at least some understanding what a newsitem is, and what it is not.


----------



## smf (Dec 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I should remind you that a conspiracy is "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."  A conspiracy _theory_ is when you have* no evidence* that a conspiracy exists.



It seems that people really don't understand what a conspiracy theory is. I had someone tell me that everything is a conspiracy until it's not (I think they meant to use the word theory).

Theories are ideas to try to explain your observations, you then test those theories.

The observation is "Joe Biden got more votes". If an observation is unexpected to you then it's perfectly valid to theorize how it could happen and look for evidence. What you can't do is claim you won, just because your theory why Joe Biden got more votes was wide scale cheating. Without evidence the theory is worthless, another is "more people wanted Joe Biden than Donald Trump" & that seems much more likely. You should not favor a theory but instead look for evidence.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that even if you are right, it's very difficult to prove as secret groups can only exist if they are really good at keeping things secret. Anyone claiming to know when they can't present any evidence is probably having some form of mental health episode.


----------



## notimp (Dec 5, 2020)

smf said:


> It seems that people really don't understand what a conspiracy theory is. I had someone tell me that everything is a conspiracy until it's not (I think they meant to use the word theory).
> 
> Theories are ideas to try to explain your observations, you then test those theories.
> 
> ...


Even that is too complicated.

When you throw the term 'conspiracy theory' around, its loaded. People actually want to use it to end and 'win' conversations all the time. Its derogatory. Its a trap. (If I can get that word to stick on you, I've won - from a mainstream perception stance.)

And at the same time its not - its literally the opposite. Its people looking at situations, and proving, or assuming collusion.

But the chance, that if you arent whistleblowing - or are in an important societal position, when setting rules based on theory - that you ever play an important role in something 'touching on a conspiracy theory', by lets say 'distributing it - to your friends', is almost laughably low.

The best case scenario of what they are for is to promote people to question believes. But you dont do that, by ramrodding 'your truth' on a believe, down their throat. (I do that, but I have rhetoric training - I can deal with some of the fallout..  ) thats not how you convince people of a position.

They have to deliberate on their own, and come to their own conclusions. Provoking thought works. Provoking investigation in matters where it is needed is good. (Positive aspect of conspiracy theories.) Telling people what to believe is one step to far. Telling them what you believe is fine, everyone is doing that all the time anyhow.

But basically the moment you need to use the term conspiracy theory to make an attack argument against someone - the discussion is over. You are trying to win on 'social perception of that person' grounds. Which is also a way to win discussions, but not to hold them.


----------



## smf (Dec 5, 2020)

notimp said:


> But the chance, that if you arent whistleblowing - or are in an important societal position, when setting rules based on theory - that you ever play an important role in something 'touching on a conspiracy theory', by lets say 'distributing it - to your friends', is almost laughably low.



Distributing it to your friends doesn't even help, unless your friend is someone high up in criminal prosecutions and also takes their cues from facebook posts.

Spreading conspiracy theories are either a waste of time because they are lies, or really useful to the defense to trigger a mistrial due to it being impossible for their client to receive a fair trial if it turns out they are true.

Which on the balance of probabilities means that either Trump is lying, or he committed election fraud and is trying to make sure that the real decision makers believe that they was no fraud. I have an open mind, so I'm not going to favor one or the other.


----------



## notimp (Dec 5, 2020)

smf said:


> Spreading conspiracy theories are either a waste of time because they are lies, or really useful to the defense to trigger a mistrial due to it being impossible for their client to receive a fair trial if it turns out they are true.


Well there are those instances, when the media system has one perception of a thing - f.e. russiagate on the left (claims made by the intelligence agencies, or political actors were never objectified), or lets say an effing meetup of the


> As is always the case, the founders of Alpbach discovered that in the pursuit of a common dream, opinions about how to make it come true, diverged - both content and procedure-wise. Out of these discussions however grew a platform with a think tank populated by European intellectuals and doers, who had a profound influence on the shaping of Europe in the decades to come. Left or right was not the differentiator, but liberal and anti-liberal was.


 kind, that produced group think and corporate friendly attitudes amongst young people - had no room for critical thinking, and is featured by a media system thats basically embedded with high levels of goodwill - and then you do what? 

Imho its always good for people to speak up to get discussions started, or get more context themselves, but its more of a 'wait, that might be interesting' thing. It becomes problematic, when people start to evangelize what could be called a conspiracy theory, and then get matched with people who just know, that everything with that 'flair' to it, is just wrong and always was. 

Both points of view might not be entirely correct. Conspiracy theories at least to me to a certain extent are 'fun' as _some_ of them might teach you a little bit more about the society you are living in.

But it also seems, that there is a tendency for people to stumble into one, and immediately end up at 'the huge world conspiracy' - 'people are out to get me'. And that might be problematic. Well - except of course in the Snowden case, where - conceptually - it was true. 

This is not a standard opinion on the topic, those are my 'feelings' on it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 5, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> This message brought to you buy two folks that bring 0 or falsified evidence to arguments and believe in things based on gut feelings.



If you want to talk...



SonowRaevius said:


> Considering most people use "proof" and "evidence" interchangeably in the real world quite often, even in legal setting, you are arguing semantics.



Backpedaling.  You literally posted the definition of "proof" as if it contradicted what I said and took a jab at my English comprehension.  Asking people for proof is unreasonable.  It's not realistic to think that this is the place where the case is going to be settled.



SonowRaevius said:


> Most of the presented "evidence" has been proven false by the courts, people have provided "evidence" that they have been proven false



Dismissing a case because the evidence isn't strong enough is not the same as "proving evidence false". Rejecting evidence based on publications is not "proving evidence false".  Denying allegations is not "proving evidence false".



SonowRaevius said:


> It's fine if you don't trust the government or the outcome, but feelings do not equate to the facts of the matter.



Please quote me where that is implied by myself, and I will demystify it for you.



SonowRaevius said:


> Why wanting things to be 100% proven as true is a bad thing for you is beyond me, but you do you.



Disingenuous.  %100 is always the goal, but we have to spend time with less than that.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> Neg to insist that the US is china, because your leaderfigure (coincidentally not the leaderfigure of the US anymore) said so?



I insist that DNC/progress policies, ideology & behavior coincide, support and otherwise align with the communist party of China.

*Beijing Biden's ideology & policies support China.*

Trade, Globalism
He is weak supporting freedom for Taiwan & Hong Kong 
He is a compromised & subordinate to Beijing from his corrupt business dealings , Beijing possesses film evidence of his son having sexual & abusive interactions with minors.   "The Big man" is probably on film doing so as well.

*Social media & their progressive political enablers.*

Censorship
Narrative sponsoring/control/curation
Social credit scores.

*DNC Party*

Cultural Marxism
Redistribution of wealth
social engineering of demographic make up of communities and neighborhoods
Population control through ethnically targeted abortion 
Circumventing voter will by politicizing courts

This statue is in Seattle, not Russia.






​


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 6, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> The people asked to leave were envelope snippers that had already finished their jobs. Observers did not leave and were not asked to. The suitcases contained official ballot containers with rollers, contained in suitcases because of how heavy they are. Them being temporarily stored under the table is not out of the ordinary. I've obtained this information from the Georgia hearings where it was presented by the Trump campaign, and can get a few clips or timestamped links to it if you need it.



Would you be able to provide the timestamps? Particularly on the "told to leave" parts? Thanks in advance.

I've seen many conflicting reports on the "observers told to leave" claims. I saw news articles published that night reporting that they were told that the counting was over for Tuesday and would only restart 8:30am of the following morning. Some observers claimed they were told to leave. And repeating a previous post:



fischermasamune said:


> I tried to learn more about the claim. It appears this election official Richard Barron has changed his claims about what happened that night, which gives less credence to his denial.
> 
> https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-ne...ctions-operations/EVCBN4ZJTZELPDHMH63POL3RKQ/
> 
> ...



To top it off, I still haven't figured out the "water pipe leak" story, which happened in that same place in Fulton County in Atlanta, Georgia. One source says it made them (or influenced them to) stop the counting that Tuesday night because of it. Other says that it was in the morning of Tuesday, fixed by 8am. That Richard Barron says it was dripping from the ceiling and soaking the carpet beneath it; others say it was a simple overflowing toilet far away from the counting area.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> I insist that DNC/progress policies, ideology & behavior coincide, support and otherwise align with the communist party of China.
> 
> *Beijing Biden's ideology & policies support China.*
> 
> ...


You are brainwashed. Now you are fighting against images of statue that prove the big ideological invasion of the enemy - while the rest of the world is really borderline breaking, because of socio economic problems. You are stuck in a bad hollywood movie -- with people producing child rape videos, telling others they have to see what you see to safe the world.

You are putting together high emotional impact items (impactful on your image of the world), and trying to make sense of them by wrapping them in a third class 80s movie plot. That coincidently also tells everyone, why they have to save the world from anyone that isnt Trump. Because the pedos have the childrape video of Bidens son, and... I mean, stop. At any point you'd like to - but, stop.

Here is a bronze relief of Marx in front of University Leipzig.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronzerelief_Aufbruch


edit: I bring the argument once more - that it is much more favorable to actually have a "productive" (something that works, something that grows the economy) relationship with a leader of a country, than to blackmail them. If you blackmail them, because of the environment they are in - they'd have 1000 different ways to stall it, to fake compliance, ... and even if they adhere to 'you ruling them by blackmail from half a world away' - how would you implement changes? If they are too radical people will notice and do something about them. So in addition to blackmailing the president, by making an alleged (the heck?) pedo video with his son, you now also have to form a support environment for your sockpuppet - lets call it a party, and then make that popular, but with the hidden notions to only help you, half a world away, which no one realizes. And thats your plan to take over world leadership, which 30 years ago economists said would change in your favor anyhow... And you make all this 'actionable' in the four years, after which the true savior of america, who saw all that coming, was defeated, by a fraudulent election, which you also manipulated and... I mean do you see how you form your 'logic path' yet?

edit: Here, watch this:


This was 10 years ago.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 6, 2020)

Jesus Jimbo, being a trump supporter i knew you were heavily misguided, but now, your just literally stupid. Brainwashed like Notimp said, and its because of your 1 IQ brain that got you no where.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Population control through ethnically targeted abortion


Btw. is that your way of saying white young males are prevented by feminism to fuck? Again?  Or by liberals, or by progressives, or by...

Your entire parents generation chose to stop having children, so they could have more money for leisure spending, how about asking them what 'controlled' them (while they still were f*cking - btw).

This entire notion of 'the race thats procreating more will dominate the world' is entirely the opposite of global politics for the last 30 years. The US even havent got a good enemy, that is sending their 'procreators' to your country to 'take over your cultural identity' - so now you have to find that enemy within your own borders, and - thank you racism, its black people and hispanics?

I mean...


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 6, 2020)

Either way, biden will have a 98.9% chance that he will win the election, with trump being a dumbass and not giving any good evidence to voter fraud happening, and it being 3 days till the safe harbor, aka, trumps dead, he  won't be doing anything. So, when republicans find that out that their trumpy could not a single thing, they will turn to the electoral college. HOWEVER, they will be crying again to learn that the most amount of faithfulness electors were 10 in 2016, which, while clinton was not a good option, still would have won without the college having that faithless electors fucking it up. So, since biden have about more then 30 more electors then he needed, and demos being really on hinge to the left, they will almost all vote for biden. And when we get to jan, and they count the votes, i know some republicans are gonna say, "Oh, voter fraud, Blah blah blah!" But NO. In order for a objection to be in the works and happen, they need approval from the senate and house. If a republican did that objection, and you need a majority in the house for that to happen in the first place, oh shit, demos have the majority, Your dead Republican! And also, the senate is kind of shaky, with republicans not wanting to vote because of some fake rumors, most likely, the demos are probably gonna win, and when Harris comes, she would of course, give the majority to Demos. So, There is almost a 0% chance that trump would ever win this election, unless somehow he gives amazing evidence somehow, which is not happening, or he somehow did some illegal things to make sure he wins, and if he does that, demos are gonna murder him. So, i have a message. STOP FEEDING INTO TRUMPS MIND AND SAYING THAT MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD EXISTS. While yes, there are some voter fraud, its so small that it dosent even matter anymore. Your best bet for survival is if you vote for the republican senate, so you can have your "Majority" back. So, just stop telling lies.


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> That coincidently also tells everyone, why they have to save the world from anyone that isnt Trump. Because the pedos have the childrape video of Bidens son, and... I mean, stop. At any point you'd like to - but, stop.




1.  Hunter Biden is under current FBI criminal investigation, neither The Bgman or Hunter Biden have disputed the legitimacy of the laptop.   The Biden family is a bunch of pedophiles, you can gaslight and deny it all you want but  the writing is on the wall and it is in crayon. Biden is on film groping on a 8 year olds chest for Christ sake.  Johnny Cochran said the glove didn't fit, we all know OJ did that shit.

2.  Fixating on Trump has nothing to do with the DNC being filled with marxist authoritarians.  There is plenty of people I prefer to Trump, IE, Gary Johnson.  I'd even be fine some people on the left, there is a pre-DNC whoring Bernie Sanders who I really liked, also really like Tulsi Gabbard.




Driving_duck said:


> Jesus Jimbo, being a trump supporter i knew you were heavily misguided, but now, your just literally stupid. Brainwashed like Notimp said, and its because of your 1 IQ brain that got you no where.



You can always spot pointless dribble from someone who assumes to know way to much beyond the avatar.

People who claim others are misguided or voting against there own interests are usually a little control freak that thinks they know what my interests or destination should be.



notimp said:


> Is that your way of saying white young males are prevented by feminism to fuck? Again?  Population control through ethnically targeted abortion/



No that's me saying the DNCs drive thru abortion chain planned parenthood was founded by a Eugenicist whose ideology coincided with the Nazi parties racial purity beliefs, opened the first location in Harlem and they still focus opening their franchises in predominately black communities.  The DNC funds ethnically (blacks) targeted abortions.


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## Driving_duck (Dec 6, 2020)

Welp, no reason to talk to him, he's crazy.


jimbo13 said:


> 1.  Hunter Biden is under current FBI criminal investigation, neither The Bgman or Hunter Biden have disputed the legitimacy of the laptop.   The Biden family is a bunch of pedophiles, you can gaslight and deny it all you want but  the writing is on the wall and it is in crayon. Biden is on film groping on a 8 year olds chest for Christ sake.  Johnny Cochran said the glove didn't fit, we all know OJ did that shit.
> 
> 2.  Fixating on Trump has nothing to do with the DNC being filled with marxist authoritarians.  There is plenty of people I prefer to Trump, IE, Gary Johnson.  I'd even be fine some people on the left, there is a pre-DNC whoring Bernie Sanders who I really liked, also really like Tulsi Gabbard.
> 
> ...


----------



## jimbo13 (Dec 6, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Welp, no reason to talk to him, he's crazy.



Video tape of hunter Biden fucking kids isn't hard to find just because I can't post it for obvious reasons, it's been widely reported on.   The only reason more of the material hasn't been published is because they legally can't cause it's pedo according to numerous outlets lawyers.

You're pointless.

DOJ official confirms FBI 2019 criminal investigation into Hunter Biden, still active


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 6, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> Video tape of hunter Biden fucking kids isn't hard to find just because I can't post it for obvious reasons, it's been widely reported on.   The only reason more of the material hasn't been published is because they legally can't cause it's pedo according to numerous outlets lawyers.
> 
> You're pointless.
> 
> DOJ official confirms FBI 2019 criminal investigation into Hunter Biden, still active


Alright, lets tear this apart. The sentence about him being a pedo is so fake that everyone with a brain know it's fake. That whole china part is just rumors. You can try better then this, come on.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 1. Hunter Biden is under current FBI criminal investigation, neither The Bgman or Hunter Biden have disputed the legitimacy of the laptop.


Agree on the first part.


> The Biden family is a bunch of pedophiles, you can gaslight and deny it all you want but the writing is on the wall and it is in crayon. Biden is on film groping on a 8 year olds chest for Christ sake. Johnny Cochran said the glove didn't fit, we all know OJ did that shit.


Very much disagree on the second.

Here is the thing 'pedo' registers emotionally for you with a factor of 1000x over other themes. So someone feeds you images of kissing children public appearences from politicians, and tells you that they are pedos. Which make them controllable by pedowranglers. Which are the people with no morals - so china.

Ehm.. yeah. I even give you, that in one instance Biden actually smelled that childs hair for too long. And I give you that such networks might exist on the fringes. What I dont give you is, that they are the sole reason for political action, and basically the main form of political influence in the world. I think that is you not having understood how 'secret club -- shagging a bigs head' works. Allegedly. I think thats you having about a 10.000x overestimation how much 'moral rule' (the fear of the politician being made a pedo, to be able to get into power in the first place to..) matters.

I think all of those are figments of your imagination - fueled by people who create memes that propagate that. Because it instantly fills you with that 'save the children' motive -- that crushes all rational though, and has you asking -- essentially -- "why arent all the pedos stopped" as part of your political believe.

And someone has to tell you that this is not how the world works, and this is not a political believe.

Yes there are reputation assassination campaigns out there. Yes, some of them are state financed. No you dont need to have people have sex with minors for that - you sick mind. And no - they arent whats used to keep a head of state 'dependable'. If you would try to make such behavior public in foreign relations, you would essentually 'nuke' a countries domestic politics, and all further relations with you, and that country for the forseeable future. Which isnt the best move in foreign politics - which is all about have states manage their domestic politcs without anyone saying anything - so long term foreign arrangements can be made. One president, that might be active for four years - isnt worth jack. I mean Putin did pretty good on his military actions in border regions lately - without the US officially even as much as 'noticing' but thats about what 'one Trump' potentially could buy you. Lets not get carried away. Also - if you are blackmailed at the risk of being publically destroyed, how high would you guess your motivation would be to win the next election, to sustain that situation? Again - it makes much more sense to sweettalk a head of state, than to try to blackmail them.

Also, yes , I cant believe I'm having this conversation, just to convince someone - that the 'Biden pedo, kissing girls' meme, is not reality. Much less procedural logic of how international relationships work. I'm not a shrink. I'm just saying - something thats very much impactful emotionally for you - is dominating your believes.


----------



## smf (Dec 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> Conspiracy theories at least to me to a certain extent are 'fun' as _some_ of them might teach you a little bit more about the society you are living in.
> 
> But it also seems, that there is a tendency for people to stumble into one, and immediately end up at 'the huge world conspiracy' - 'people are out to get me'. And that might be problematic. Well - except of course in the Snowden case, where - conceptually - it was true.



Snowden wasn't a conspiracy theory though, it was evidence of a conspiracy. Or if you're the government it was leaking official secrets. It's impossible to only infringe the rights of criminals. So when reptards go on about law and order, they have to accept that means that the government are going to go deep into all their business.

I don't see them as fun, they don't really teach anything other than what mental health breakdowns and psychosis will allow people to believe. 

If you're only reading about it on twitter/facebook and certain media outlets, then it's probably not true or at least not worth worrying about.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

smf said:


> Snowden wasn't a conspiracy theory though, it was evidence of a conspiracy.


There were stories that were 'disqualified' as conspiracy theories, before Snowden, that hinted at the same proceedings.

See f.e.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A


----------



## smf (Dec 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> There were stories that were 'disqualified' as conspiracy theories, before Snowden, that hinted at the same proceedings.
> 
> See f.e.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A



I don't think congress granting retroactive immunity is dismissing it as a conspiracy theory.

If anything it proves a conspiracy, but they'll argue that they are doing it for the right reasons anyway.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

smf said:


> I don't think congress granting retroactive immunity is dismissing it as a conspiracy theory.
> 
> If anything it proves a conspiracy, but they'll argue that they are doing it for the right reasons anyway.


Snowden only came forward, after he watched James Clapper lie to congress under oath. Clapper lied to congress under oath, because Senators in the oversight committee tried to force the program to be put on record.

Clapper from that point onward only 'failed upward' netting him a private sector utility post as a reward ( In May 2017, he joined the Washington, D.C.–based think tank the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) as a Distinguished Senior Fellow for Intelligence and National Security.[4] ).

Between 2006 and 2013 - there was practically no media reporting on the Room 641A case and everyone who you'd talk to outside of a very small group of people who knew the EFF case in detail would dismiss those notions outright, and declare you a conspiracy theorist.

After the fact its easy to produce all those PBS 'what really happened' features, but they didnt help the people involved, when it was necessary.

And some of it is due to the tight nit nature of how government, corporate and media relations work when 'national security' is pronounced.

Regardless. That was one case out of many. There might be others. They usually arent common. But you arent doing those a favor, when you are arguing for 'well media would have found out and exposed it anyhow'. Even in the Daniel Ellsberg case it was a miracle, that he got his stuff 'on record'. Media was barred from reporting on it, until it was.

edit: This is what clapper does today, btw:
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/10/26/james-clapper-has-right-to-remain-silent-please-stay-silent/


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> There were stories that were 'disqualified' as conspiracy theories, before Snowden, that hinted at the same proceedings.
> 
> See f.e.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A


A conspiracy theory involving a government eavesdropping on it's own citizens would involve an official high up the leadership chain issuing the order while the subordinates conspire to keep it a secret. As with any conspiracy theory, the evidence requirement remains the same, but the scenario itself is plausible.  This is much different than a *grand conspiracy theory* like the 2020 election fraud allegation that's been discussed here, which is dependent not on subordinates, but disparate parts from across the political and judicial spectrum, including Trump appointees and loyalists breaking the law in an effort to get a Democrat elected.  

I have yet to read an explanation that ties together these connections in a manner that makes any sense.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> A conspiracy theory involving a government eavesdropping on it's own citizens would involve an official high up the leadership chain issuing the order while the subordinates conspire to keep it a secret. As with any conspiracy theory, the evidence requirement remains the same, but the scenario itself is plausible.  This is much different than a *grand conspiracy theory* like the 2020 election fraud allegation that's been discussed here, which is dependent not on subordinates, but disparate parts from across the political and judicial spectrum, including Trump appointees and loyalists breaking the law in an effort to get a Democrat elected.
> 
> I have yet to read an explanation that ties together these connections in a manner that makes any sense.




For your personal interpretation of how the widespread voter fraud must have happened, you could blame a single entity influencing these people with bribery, threats, and blackmail.

I think there is some of that, but I see it is as more likely that the criminal element was encouraged socially, and people have been doing whatever they feel like might work.  Then you have higher ups willing to fortify it and fight against exposure.  And for those who seem like they'd be trouble, just send them a little personal message.  In the end though, none of those people's capacity for fraud compare to what a smaller group of people could do with their closed source vote manipulation software--disguised as voting machines.

Anyway, if you want to be genuine in trying to understand how it could work, don't preset it with the most outrageous scenario.  Start with what is plausible of working and build on that.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 6, 2020)

It’s sad to see a side soo blind. They they refused to look at themselves
SNL described Giuliani actual defense. Really there was no difference.
Rudy’s whole argument is a joke meant to create doubt.. why ? Donations.. Trump raised 200million but only spent 3million in Wisconsin recount and 20 thousands a day for Rudy to go to court.. lol that’s bout 195 million that was pocketed.... man it’s going to be only a few days before pardons and then it will be over.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 6, 2020)

tabzer said:


> For your personal interpretation of how the widespread voter fraud must have happened, you could blame a single entity influencing these people with bribery, threats, and blackmail.
> 
> I think there is some of that, but I see it is as more likely that the criminal element was encouraged socially, and people have been doing whatever they feel like might work.  Then you have higher ups willing to fortify it and fight against exposure.  And for those who seem like they'd be trouble, just send them a little personal message.  In the end though, none of those people's capacity for fraud compare to what a smaller group of people could do with their closed source vote manipulation software--disguised as voting machines.
> 
> Anyway, if you want to be genuine in trying to understand how it could work, don't preset it with the most outrageous scenario.  Start with what is plausible of working and build on that.


Ok, let's start with the most plausible scenario.

You've questioned the credibility of everyone *except* Trump himself.  The same argument you're using to explain wide-spread election fraud -- bribery, threats, and blackmail -- can be applied to him as well.  How do we know that Trump isn't the person being compromised here?  What scenario is more plausible -- Trump lying about wide-spread election conspiracy, or *hundreds* of judges, politicians, and Trump loyalists across the country conspiring against him?


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> A conspiracy theory involving a government eavesdropping on it's own citizens would involve an official high up the leadership chain issuing the order while the subordinates conspire to keep it a secret. As with any conspiracy theory, the evidence requirement remains the same, but the scenario itself is plausible.  This is much different than a *grand conspiracy theory* like the 2020 election fraud allegation that's been discussed here, which is dependent not on subordinates, but disparate parts from across the political and judicial spectrum, including Trump appointees and loyalists breaking the law in an effort to get a Democrat elected.
> 
> I have yet to read an explanation that ties together these connections in a manner that makes any sense.


Actually, let me refute that.

If you own a network of thinktanks, you own outlook trajectories on several institutional bodies.

In Europe currently the debate about the e-Euro is starting. With the same 'what do you have to hide - its so convenient' rhetoric to start with. The arguments from central bankers that point into the direction of a difference between 'investment tier' money and 'the publics money' show that they are looking at this from a PoV to inflate away part of the money supply without impacting 'structural investments'.

If you follow that logic, you currently have - thinktanks, politicians, national banks, private banking, and media staked against the public interest.

What do you do in that instance? Just make up a story on how all of this is sensationalism, and that this will allow for the much needed investments into the future, while telling the public - no its really private - only the good people can look at all the transactions? And rewrite the 'what the e-Euro is' protocols?

So poor people in the future, get their own economic targets, that arent GDP anymore. Their own money, which isnt the investors money anymore, ... Privacy becomes a privilege for the ritch. Owning your own air conditioner will fall by the wayside to enable livelong renting programs on stuff like that - which means you can employ your own service sector, just for people that rent others things they would have bought before...


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 6, 2020)

notimp said:


> Actually, let me refute that.
> 
> If you own a network of thinktanks, you own outlook trajectories on several institutional bodies.
> 
> ...


Whether we call it ideological alignment or conspiracy, the outcome is the same. If we call it conspiracy, well the 1% conspiring against the 99% in this manner isn't exactly a theory at this point is it?  At least not in a world where hedge funds and lobbyists exist.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Whether we call it ideological alignment or conspiracy, the outcome is the same. If we call it conspiracy, well the 1% conspiring against the 99% in this manner isn't exactly a theory at this point is it?  At least not in a world where hedge funds and lobbyists exist.


But then what do centralbanks and the media do in there? (To be answered in the future..  ) 'interest alignment of the 1%' might be a little narrow.. 

edit EZB Report:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/Report_on_a_digital_euro~4d7268b458.en.pdf

edit:


> This report examines the issuance of a central bank digital currency (CBDC) – the digital euro – from the perspective of the Eurosystem. Such a digital euro would be a central bank liability offered in digital form for use by citizens and businesses for their retail payments. It would complement the current offering of cash and wholesale central bank deposits.


Split the money base.


> A possible role for the digital euro as a tool to strengthen monetary policy is not identified in this report, but could emerge in the future on the basis of further analysis or owing to developments in the international financial system.


PR first?


> The Eurosystem would design the digital euro in such a way as to avoid possible undesirable implications for the fulfilment of its mandate, for the financial industry and for the broader economy. Some digital euro design options could affect the intermediation function of banks and their funding costs, especially in situations of stress. Furthermore, some potential configurations of a digital euro could lead to an Report on a digital euro 4 expansion of the size of the Eurosystem’s balance sheet and increase its exposure to shocks and could give rise to challenges in international financial markets related to larger capital flows. However, the analysis in this report indicates that by following appropriate strategies in the design of the digital euro the Eurosystem can address these challenges.


Commercial banks and large scale investors are safe - we promise.
Also promises of not inflating the money pool ("state investments into peoples abilities to purchase retail") (with negative interest you get the desired effects).


> Most users and investors are also concerned that emerging private payment solutions (especially if unregulated) could entail cyber risks.


The boogey man can!


> In the case of a digital euro, such risks might be mitigated by the involvement of the central bank. Finally, the issuance of a digital euro could stimulate the supply of new payment services and functionalities and create business opportunities, although it could also generate new sources of risk.


You know, the commercial banking sector really had too few business opportunities in the past...


> Scenario 4: if the Eurosystem were to conclude in the future that the issuance of a digital euro is necessary or beneficial from a monetary policy perspective. For example, the introduction of a CBDC might reinforce the transmission of monetary policy by allowing the central bank to set the remuneration rate on the digital euro in order to directly influence the consumption and investment choices of the non-financial sector, although the strength of this mechanism is not clear cut18 (the effect of the digital euro on monetary policy is examined in more depth in Section 3).


Bingo.

edit Footnote 18:


> 18 A CBDC could help to eliminate the effective lower bound on policy rates, and thereby widen the policy options available in crisis situations, if cash were to disappear. This may be considered particularly important in view of the decline in the neutral real rate (== cumulative interest). However, to the extent that cash remains available in the economy, this objective becomes less relevant. See Lalouette, L. and Esselink, H., “Trends and developments in the use of euro cash over the past ten years”, Economic Bulletin, Issue 6, ECB, 2018.



Bingo 2:


> Requirement 4 (R4): monetary policy option. If considered to be a tool for improving the transmission of monetary policy, the digital euro should be remunerated at interest rate(s) that the central bank can modify over time.19


Footnote 19:


> 19 There may be other reasons to remunerate the digital euro at a variable rate, namely financial stability reasons and to prevent the central bank becoming a large-scale financial intermediary if the digital euro becomes a large-scale store of value.


Yeah we dont want it to be a value store option, do we.. 


> • The excessive use of the digital euro as a form of investment and the associated risk of sudden large shifts from bank deposits to the digital euro should be avoided. The digital euro should be available via supervised intermediaries, while IT project risks (for example, project delays or unexpected costs) should be minimised. The Eurosystem should aim at complying with regulatory standards even when exempted, unless it is clearly in the public interest not to do so.


Split the money base.




> Effects on the banking sector, monetary policy and financial stability
> 
> The introduction of a digital euro could affect the transmission of monetary policy and have a negative impact on financial stability, for example by challenging banks’ intermediation capacity and by affecting risk-free interest rates. Depending on its characteristics as a form of investment, it might induce depositors to transform their commercial bank deposits into central bank liabilities. This might increase the funding costs of banks and, as a consequence, interest rates on bank loans, potentially curtailing the volume of bank credit to the economy. Banks could react to this trend in different ways. One possibility would be to try to stabilise deposits by increasing their remuneration or by bundling them with additional services (for example, payment services, mortgages, etc.). Second – unless the central bank increases its outright holdings of securities, thus increasing the supply of liquidity on a permanent basis – banks could replace lost deposit funding with central bank borrowing, provided that they have adequate collateral (in terms of both quality and quantity). This would imply an increase in demand for collateral, which might ultimately have an impact on market interest rates for safe assets; moreover, the central bank would expand its role in the economy and its risk exposure. Finally, to the extent that the central bank increases its outright holdings of securities, banks could still try to substitute deposit funding with more expensive capital market-based funding. Substantial demand for digital euro may also have a negative impact on financial stability, given the key role of the banking sector in financial intermediation. Were this demand to increase their funding costs, banks might have to deleverage and decrease the supply of credit, thus preventing an optimal level of aggregate investment and consumption. If this process ultimately implies higher costs for borrowers, economic activity could be hampered. Moreover, if their traditional business model is compromised, banks may decide to take on greater risks in an attempt to earn higher (nominal) returns and to offset the reduction in profitability.32 Additionally, if banks decrease their role in deposit-taking and intervene less in the routing of payment instructions, they might have less information about clients, which, in turn, would harm their risk assessment capacity. This may increase the riskiness of banks’ balance sheets, with negative effects on financial stability. Furthermore, investors may substitute safe assets (for example, sovereign bonds) with the digital euro, which would directly affect risk-free interest rates and indirectly affect other risk classes.33 In crisis situations, when savers have less confidence in the whole banking sector, liquid assets might be shifted very rapidly from commercial bank deposits to the digital euro if the operational obstacles to withdrawing money in the form of digital euro are lower than for withdrawing cash. This could increase the likelihood and severity of bank runs, weakening financial stability. These examples highlight that the design of the digital euro needs to be carefully assessed, taking into account its implications for such important issues as monetary policy transmission and financial stability. Consideration should be given, inter alia, to whether a digital euro should be accessible by households and firms directly or indirectly through intermediaries, whether it would be remunerated, and whether digital euro holdings of individual users should be limited or unlimited. For instance, the central bank might mitigate potential effects on the banking sector, financial stability and the transmission of monetary policy by remunerating digital euro holdings at a variable rate over time,34 possibly using a tiered remuneration system, or by limiting the quantity of digital euro that users can hold and/or transact.


Footnote 34:


> 34 A non-interest-bearing or positive interest-bearing digital euro is more likely to induce large-scale substitution away from deposits in a negative interest rate environment. While banknotes already offer a non-interest-bearing alternative to deposits, storage and insurance costs mean that deposit rates can be below zero without triggering large-scale substitution into cash. Holding digital euro would likely entail lower costs than holding banknotes, implying that large-scale substitution into non-interest-bearing or positive interest-bearing digital euro would be more likely – at any given negative rate on deposits – compared with substitution into banknotes.


Oh, what could we do - what could we possibly do??!?

Next paragraph:


> Given the risks for monetary policy transmission and financial stability, it is not desirable for the digital euro to attract very large investment inflows. However, if individual holdings of digital euro were too low, either because of rigid constraints or because of disincentives applied above a relatively low threshold, then the digital euro would be less attractive as a means of payment and less competitive than alternative instruments.35 To address the aforementioned risks, the central bank should design the digital euro in line with the following requirement: Requirement 8 (R8): ability to control the amount of digital euro in circulation.





> The digital euro should be an attractive means of payment, but should be designed so as to avoid its use as a form of investment and the associated risk of large shifts from private money (for example bank deposits) to digital euro.


BINGO!


----------



## smf (Dec 6, 2020)

fischermasamune said:


> That Richard Barron says it was dripping from the ceiling and soaking the carpet beneath it; others say it was a simple overflowing toilet far away from the counting area.



Both could be true, an overflowing toilet upstairs could leak into the ceiling of the room below. It's possible that nobody making the decision was aware of the entire facts, or understood them. If they had to close toilets while they are fixed then they may have decided to send people home, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to go to the toilet.

Richard Barron could have emptied a bucket of water to make it look like there was a leak so that he could bring in his massive dump of illegal votes, or it could just be that it's something innocent.

I don't think it's something that you can get to the bottom of.



LumInvader said:


> If we call it conspiracy, well the 1% conspiring against the 99% in this manner isn't exactly a theory at this point is it?  At least not in a world where hedge funds and lobbyists exist.



I don't think hedge funds count as conspiracy in general. They would need to be involved in a secret plot to do something illegal.

It's possible that there are some conspiracies though & if you start making baseless claims about an individual hedge fund, then it counts as a conspiracy theory. If you actually have proof then it's not a theory.

But without proof then how do you know which hedge fund you should accuse to of conspiracy? Certainly you can't accuse them all & just picking one at random seems likely to be wrong. If you pick one because you don't like a particular person who is involved in the hedge fund then your judgement is clouded.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 6, 2020)

smf said:


> I don't think hedge funds count as conspiracy in general. They would need to be involved in a secret plot to do something illegal.
> 
> It's possible that there are some conspiracies though & if you start making baseless claims about an individual hedge fund, then it counts as a conspiracy theory. If you actually have proof then it's not a theory.
> 
> But without proof then how do you know which hedge fund you should accuse to of conspiracy? Certainly you can't accuse them all & just picking one at random seems likely to be wrong. If you pick one because you don't like a particular person who is involved in the hedge fund then your judgement is clouded.


That's a fair rebuttal.  Let's cross out hedge funds and call it a day.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Ok, let's start with the most plausible scenario.
> 
> You've questioned the credibility of everyone *except* Trump himself.  The same argument you're using to explain wide-spread election fraud -- bribery, threats, and blackmail -- can be applied to him as well.  How do we know that Trump isn't the person being compromised here?  What scenario is more plausible -- Trump lying about wide-spread election conspiracy, or *hundreds* of judges, politicians, and Trump loyalists across the country conspiring against him?



That's not true.  I've considered that Trump brokered his way into presidency and that this is all apart of the show.

Also, your account doesn't accurately describe what I proposed.


----------



## notimp (Dec 6, 2020)

For anyone interested, I've got my answer in the 'digital central bank currency' example.

According to a statement of a spokesperson of the Adenauer Stiftung in germany - this cant be a 'technocratic measure' that would be implemented top down. You would have a democratic referendum to ask people if they are ok with it first.

src: h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08guZbfhW14 (german)

So thats the fallback on 'technocratic collusion'.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

sorry horse 





but then you see statements like this yesterday from high level Republicans... it warms my heart. 

*“I’m proud that we’re able to look up after three recounts and watch and be able to see that this election was fair, Was it perfect? Absolutely not. I don’t know if any election was perfect in the history of this country.”* - Lt. GovernorDuncan

*“Right now, we don’t see anything that would overturn the will of the people here in Georgia,”*-Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> sorry horse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, seems like some of the republicans are actually starting to see that there is no widespread voter fraud.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

Isn't that a good thing, that if there was no widespread voter fraud and they can see that, they admit it. Unlike the numpties who cried Russia with no evidence and 4 years later were still beating that horse.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Isn't that a good thing, that if there was no widespread voter fraud and they can see that, they admit it. Unlike the numpties who cried Russia with no evidence and 4 years later were still beating that horse.


Yes, sadly i will admit that some of those demos go far too much to the left. While yes, there was some kind of evidence to back it up the russia scandle, they kept beating the horse soo much that the horse was turned to dust.
Personally, im a demo with a few republican believes, like restricting guns is so stupid, I think anyone with a brain would agree with that.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Isn't that a good thing, that if there was no widespread voter fraud and they can see that, they admit it. Unlike the numpties who cried Russia with no evidence and 4 years later were still beating that horse.


  and it only took counting 3 times to accept it .( that is ridiculous ) ... well at least for Sane Republicans.. other are still push fraud and asking to illegally change Electors


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

How is this acceptable. Terrorising a whole family just to get an election official to change there mind. 


*Michigan secretary of state’s home surrounded by armed protesters shouting ‘stop the steal’*
Armed protesters chanting "stop the steal" marched on the home of Michigan's top election official on Saturday night to protest what they claim is an election rigged in favour of Joe Biden, _writes *Harriet Alexander*_.

Jocelyn Benson, a Democrat, had just finished stringing up her Christmas lights and was about to watch How The Grinch Stole Christmas with her four-year-old son when the crowd of about two dozen turned up with guns, flags, loud hailers and speakers at around 9:30pm.

Michigan state officials accused the group of "terrorising" Ms Benson and her family, in retaliation for her overseeing the election.  

_Jocelyn Benson accused ‘the armed people outside my home’ of wanting ‘to undermine and silence the will and voices of every voter in this state
_


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-live-biden-update-twitter-b1767194.html?amp


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 7, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> How is this acceptable. Terrorising a whole family just to get an election official to change there mind.
> 
> 
> *Michigan secretary of state’s home surrounded by armed protesters shouting ‘stop the steal’*
> ...


Yeah, there has been a lot of craziness out there going on with the world. All i can say is, "Thats america for ya!"


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Yeah, there has been a lot of craziness out there going on with the world. All i can say is, "Thats america for ya!"


the issue then becomes although you can argue that "Crazys" have always be there. In past they usually kept to themselves quietly but once they started hearing the "Dog Whistles" They feel emboldened to lash out etc* "stand back  and standby"*
 As now they are stating* "We're not going to 'stand back and stand by' anymore. We're standing up and going after you if you come after us" *
The issue is if States refused to illegally change Electors for Trump, are they going to "act" on it?


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> the issue then becomes although you can argue that "Crazys" have always be there. In past they usually kept to themselves quietly but once they started hearing the "Dog Whistles" They feel emboldened to lash out etc* "stand back  and standby"*
> As now they are stating* "We're not going to 'stand back and stand by' anymore. We're standing up and going after you if you come after us" *
> The issue is if States refused to illegally change Electors for Trump, are they going to "act" on it?


Its kind of like a saying for ants. They used to hide in their tunnels, keeping to themselves with other of them, till something happens that causes the ants to go around and biting people. Thats how america is right now, were people act with insanity, until someone dies, and then 3 days later they go back to the same shit they always done.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

I agree man it's crazy when a group terrorises other people

https://au.news.yahoo.com/this-is-m...d-as-new-york-protesters-erupt-085924138.html

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...-blm-rioters-burn-kenosha-target-cops-n838147

https://gellerreport.com/2020/08/bl...e-of-minneapolis-police-union-president.html/

https://newspunch.com/blm-protester...terrified-shoppers-pledge-allegiance-or-else/


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Its kind of like a saying for ants. They used to hide in their tunnels, keeping to themselves with other of them, till something happens that causes the ants to go around and biting people. Thats how america is right now, were people act with insanity, until someone dies, and then 3 days later they go back to the same shit they always done.


... severally people already died... and the temp only seems to be getting hotter.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I agree man it's crazy when a group terrorises other people
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh look a link from the Gellerreport a website run by
Pamela Geller an American anti-Muslim, far-right, political activist, Let's also not forget that Geller promoted birther conspiracy theories about President Barack Obama, saying that he was born in Kenya and that he is a Muslim. She has denied genocides where Muslims were victims, such as that of Albanians in Kosovo, Bosnians in Srebrenica and the Rohingya in Myanmar and a whole lot more bullshit. 

Yep a really fine and upstanding person indeed who deserves to have us all visit her website and to have us all read her racist and anti Muslim posts. I will pass thanks.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Yea isn’t ironic When people allowed a 17 year old *kid *buy heavy assault rife, carried fire arms across state lines .. when he clearly just learned to wipe his own butt and can not handle open carry.. and unable to handle himself when he is confronted and fires his gun at multiple people, killing 2 and paralyzing 1


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh look a link from the Gellerreport a website run by
> Pamela Geller an American anti-Muslim, far-right, political activist, Let's also not forget that Geller promoted birther conspiracy theories about President Barack Obama, saying that he was born in Kenya and that he is a Muslim. She has denied genocides where Muslims were victims, such as that of Albanians in Kosovo, Bosnians in Srebrenica and the Rohingya in Myanmar and a whole lot more bullshit.
> 
> Yep a really fine and upstanding person indeed who deserves to have us all visit her website and to have us all read her racist and anti Muslim posts. I will pass thanks.



Oh look, selective editing, ignored every other link i posted. "omg look it comes from 'insert non lefty here' so it must be bullshit" that's every rebuttal you ever make, and to be honest after you deleted multiple posts i made on your blog I've no intention of carrying on this discourse with you. Keep deleting and censoring stuff you don't like, if only your teachers taught you the sticks and stones song. You clearly can't handle any type of disagreement with your opinions, It's only a matter of time until you call the thought police and run off to a mod to have your voice elevated above all others (again). Your voice is the right voice after all.



djpannda said:


> Yea isn’t ironic When people allowed a 17 year old *kid *buy heavy assault rife, carried fire arms across state lines .. when he clearly just learned to wipe his own butt and can not handle open carry.. and unable to handle himself when he is confronted and fires his gun at multiple people, killing 2 and paralyzing 1



Never understood this train of thought. 17 is a kid now? Why you allowing 17yr olds to drive cars then, they're death machines. Also im gaging from your response you dont think 17yr olds should be able to defend themselves.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Oh look, selective editing, ignored every other link i posted. "omg look it comes from 'insert non lefty here' so it must be bullshit" that's every rebuttal you ever make, and to be honest after you deleted multiple posts i made on your blog I've no intention of carrying on this discourse with you. Keep deleting and censoring stuff you don't like, if only your teachers taught you the sticks and stones song. You clearly can't handle any type of disagreement with your opinions, It's only a matter of time until you call the thought police and run off to a mod to have your voice elevated above all others (again). Your voice is the right voice after all.


Please show me absolutely any post of mine in this thread where I said the BLM riots were acceptable. I will give you a little hint you won't find any.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 7, 2020)

Cancel culture can only trend so long until we have nothing.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Oh look, selective editing, ignored every other link i posted. "omg look it comes from 'insert non lefty here' so it must be bullshit" that's every rebuttal you ever make, and to be honest after you deleted multiple posts i made on your blog I've no intention of carrying on this discourse with you. Keep deleting and censoring stuff you don't like, if only your teachers taught you the sticks and stones song. You clearly can't handle any type of disagreement with your opinions, It's only a matter of time until you call the thought police and run off to a mod to have your voice elevated above all others (again). Your voice is the right voice after all.
> 
> 
> 
> Never understood this train of thought. 17 is a kid now? Why you allowing 17yr olds to drive cars then, they're death machines. Also im gaging from your response you dont think 17yr olds should be able to defend themselves.


My teachers taught me rightly that words can do more damage than weapons. But let's look further at your sticks and stones comment.

*Why 'Sticks And Stones' Is The Most Idiotic Idiom We Have.*

*Whoever came up with “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” is seriously delusional. I, personally, have never had a stick or stone thrown at me. However, there is not a shortage of mean words that have been spoken to me.

In the case of hateful speech, words definitely are mightier (or do more damage) than a sword. Words may not cut through your flesh but they cut through your confidence, heart, and soul. Wounds from words cannot be healed with some peroxide and a bandage. These wounds don’t take days, but rather years to heal.

Some never do.

Many people may cover up their wound but never fully address it and allow it to become a weakness.The wounds may not change our physical appearance, but they greatly batter our inner-selves.

Words have a ripple effect. They first stab at a person and give them a quick stinging feeling. Then they sink down into the person’s gut. Then they reach someone’s brain where they hide until that person is lying in bed at 2 a.m. not able to sleep.

Words shape people. For better or for worse. How many times have you been encouraged to speak something into existence? The same idea goes for words. Only so many times can someone be called ugly before they are incapable of seeing themselves as anything else.

There was a time where words were used for art and poetry. They were an attempt to describe the beauty of the world and one another and put it on paper. Now words are filled with hate and used as killers instead of creators. Moments may fade, but words can last forever.

Words have the power to hurt, but they also have the power to heal. It takes a coward to spew hate, but someone with real courage to spread kindness even in the face of darkness.

So no, sticks and stones don't break my bones, but words can definetly hurt me.

*


----------



## tabzer (Dec 7, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> My teachers taught me rightly that words can do more damage than weapons. But let's look further at your sticks and stones comment.
> 
> *Why 'Sticks And Stones' Is The Most Idiotic Idiom We Have.*
> 
> ...


Holy crap.  Your words are hurting my eyes.

He was pointing out that you post outrage against protests targeting politicians but you aren't protesting against rioters and looters targeting civilians on the other side of the aisle.

Your cancel culture soapbox got in the way of actually having integrity.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Holy crap.  Your words are hurting my eyes.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> He was pointing out that you post outrage against protests targeting politicians but you aren't protesting against rioters and looters targeting civilians on the other side of the aisle.


Again point out where I said the BLM riots were acceptable. You won't find any such comment here.

And to quote



shamzie said:


> if only your teachers taught you the sticks and stones song.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> My teachers taught me rightly that words can do more damage than weapons. But let's look further at your sticks and stones comment.
> 
> *Why 'Sticks And Stones' Is The Most Idiotic Idiom We Have.*
> 
> ...



I feel attacked and threatened by this post, can a mod DM me so we can discuss how best to make me a victim and have this user censored. Thanks.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 7, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Again point out where I said the BLM riots were acceptable. You won't find any such comment here.



The topic is selective condemnation.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Never understood this train of thought. 17 is a kid now? Why you allowing 17yr olds to drive cars then, they're death machines. Also im gaging from your response you dont think 17yr olds should be able to defend themselves.


lol that funny, I Guess you never dealt with a 17 year old. That is literally the dumbest stage of life. There a reason why a lot of things are restricted until your 18-21. and yes He personally was not able to handle open carry.. *AS HE KILLED 2 PEOPLE* outside his home state lines..


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The topic is selective condemnation.


Let me just say so we are all clear here even though I  have posted this numerous times in other threads. 

THE BLACK LIVES MATTER RIOTS IN AMERICA WERE NOT ACCEPTABLE BUT NEITHER IS A MOB OF PEOPLE WITH GUNS WHO ARE TERRORISING AN INNOCENT FAMILY.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol that funny, I Guess you never dealt with a 17 year old. That is literally the dumbest stage of life. There a reason why a lot of things are restricted until your 18-21. and yes He personally was not able to handle open carry.. *AS HE KILLED 2 PEOPLE* outside his home state lines..



Which point are you making, you keep mentioning state lines. Is it okay if he defends himself in his own state when other people with guns come towards him or is your outrage about the fact he was in a different state. I guess we have different definitions, he used the gun for its purpose, to save his life. That's what he did, seems well handled to me. So is 17 a kid? You never replied. Why do you let kids drive cars, im bemused.

If you're going to use the word "literally" then use it correctly. It's quite clear that 17 isn't the dumbest stage of life and if you think this then you should be looking at your own education system.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Which point are you making, you keep mentioning state lines. Is it okay if he defends himself in his own state when other people with guns come towards him or is your outrage about the fact he was in a different state. I guess we have different definitions, he used the gun for its purpose, to save his life. That's what he did, seems well handled to me. So is 17 a kid? You never replied. Why do you let kids drive cars, im bemused.


your sad...
 So tell me at what year is it ok for a CHILD to walk around the street carry a weapon when there are thousands of people protest. 

Your the type of parent that does not give a Fuck. that lets your child  carry a knife to school  when you know _*HES THE school  BULLY. *_


----------



## Xzi (Dec 7, 2020)

Fuck Rittenhouse.  If there is a hell, he'll burn there for eternity just like every other murderer.  The second you leave both your house and your state intentionally looking to start shit, a claim of self-defense is no longer valid.

It also occurs to me that Rittenhouse is exactly the type of criminal Republicans would normally advocate the death penalty for.  Can't say the blatant hypocrisy continues to surprise me at this point, though.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Unlike the numpties who cried Russia with no evidence



no evidence?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/michael-flynn-transcripts-russian-ambassador-senate


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

most 17 years olds are incapable of basic household chores..Allowing one to Travel state lines "KNOWIng full well, His looking for Trouble and carrying a GUN! Makes a Person a* Horrible Parent PEROID!.* It not like he was defending his House. or going Hunting.
because  his Horrible PARENTS not only is their son problem going to jail and destroyed he's life  but 2 people died and 1 paralyzed.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

My post was removed for "flaming" but It's perfectly fine to insinuate i'd let my child walk around with a knife. Two tier modding as usual, absolute joke to be honest.




djpannda said:


> most 17 years olds are incapable of basic household chores..Allowing one to Travel state lines "KNOWIng full well, His looking for Trouble and carrying a GUN! Makes a Person a* Horrible Parent PEROID!.* It not like he was defending his House. or going Hunting.
> because  his Horrible PARENTS not only is their son problem going to jail and destroyed he's life  but 2 people died and 1 paralyzed.



You think 17yr olds can't do basic household chores? My god. It sounds like everybody who knows you needs help getting dressed in the morning. Anyway I'll leave it at that before a mod comes and strikes me down again, you're perfectly fine to carry on accusing me of letting children walk around with assault weapons though. One rule for you lot as usual, different one for me.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> most 17 years olds are incapable of basic household chores..Allowing one to Travel state lines "KNOWIng full well, His looking for Trouble and carrying a GUN! Makes a Person a* Horrible Parent PEROID!.* It not like he was defending his House. or going Hunting.
> because  his Horrible PARENTS not only is their son problem going to jail and destroyed he's life  but 2 people died and 1 paralyzed.


To be fair, the fact that 17 year old are like babies nowadays is not something to celebrate either. Not so long ago 17 year olds were on the front lines during a World War, now they don't know how to fold a shirt and "get triggered" on the Internet over the silliest of things. Hard times make strong people, strong people make easy times, easy times make weak people, weak people make hard times - the cycle continues.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> My post was removed for "flaming" but It's perfectly fine to insinuate i'd let my child walk around with a knife. Two tier modding as usual, absolute joke to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes .. because I am not crazy.. just a Panda

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, the fact that 17 year old are like babies nowadays is not something to celebrate either. Not so long ago 17 year olds were on the front lines during a World War, now they don't know how to fold a shirt and "get triggered" on the Internet over the silliest of things. Hard times make strong people, strong people make easy times, easy times make weak people, weak people make hard times - the cycle continues.


but times change. My Great Grandmother got married at 13 to a man in his 20s.. in the 1900. But if that happens in the western countries today it would be labeled as Rape and Child Abused. .. How people act and react changes as society matures.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> but times change. My Great Grandmother got married at 13 to a man in his 20s.. in the 1900. But if that happens in the western countries today it would be labeled as Rape and Child Abused. .. How people act and react changes as society matures.


You're not supposed to be a toddler at the age of 17 - you're a year away from being a grown adult and chances are that you've been driving on a provisional license for a year. The idea that being this inept at the age of 17 is acceptable is baffling to me. If anything, it speaks to just how badly parents and the educational system have failed the current generation. Some are even saying we should lower the voting age to 17 - if they can't cook a scrambled egg or use the washing machine, I don't want them anywhere near a ballot, it's evidence of ineptitude. If you can't provide for yourself, you can't provide for anyone.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> You're not supposed to be a toddler at the age of 17 - you're a year away from being a grown adult and chances are that you've been driving on a provisional license for a year. The idea that being this inept at the age of 17 is acceptable is baffling to me. If anything, it speaks to just how badly parents and the educational system have failed the current generation.



yes US does have horrible and unfair Education system.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes US does have horrible and unfair Education system.


I'm pretty sure this is a global phenomenon not unique to the United States, young adults are infantilised and overly coddled in most of the developed world out of the (wrong) sentiment to give them an "easier upbringing" than the one their parents had. If you spend your entire young life coasting down hill, you'll fall on your face flat when faced with your first obstacle. Raising children to be incapable of dealing with the challenges of adulthood is short-sighted and irresponsible.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm pretty sure this is a global phenomenon not unique to the United States, young adults are infantilised and overly coddled in most of the developed world out of the (wrong) sentiment to give them an "easier upbringing" than the one their parents had. If you spend your entire young life coasting down hill, you'll fall on your face flat when faced with your first obstacle. Raising children to be incapable of dealing with the challenges of adulthood is short-sighted and irresponsible.


 I agree we have raised Children unable to take care of themselves and not responsible enough not to go out and kill people.  (see what I did there I brought it around like a circle. lol)


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I agree we have raised Children unable to take care of themselves and not responsible enough not to go out and kill people.  (see what I did there I brought it around like a circle. lol)


If my child ever gets attacked, I fully expect them to defend themselves with whatever they can grab to do so - fight or flight is a natural instinct, I see self-defense as a top priority. The kid was wrong to even insert himself in the situation, but I'm not surprised that he blasted at the aggressors who obviously would've harmed him or even killed him otherwise. He also kept a cool head, immediately reported the incident and dispensed whatever little care he could before the authorities have arrived instead of doing the obvious thing and fleeing the scene. He acted more mature than most kids his age. With that said, he shouldn't have been there at all, least of all with a firearm - that's my issue, not the fact that he shot and killed someone who attacked him.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> With that said, he shouldn't have been there at all, least of all with a firearm -


but thats the whole argument. Its not that he "defended Himself" because if this was someone breaking into his house or Hunting game in the woods, that would be  another story.. Its that he wanted to be Macho Man and was thirsty for action. and His Parents,who  still had legal responsibility for him, allowed him.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> but thats the whole argument. Its not that he "defended Himself" because if this was someone breaking him to his house or Hunting game in the woods that is another story.. Its that he wanted to be Macho Man and was thirsty for active and He partners that still had legal responsibility for him allowed him.


I can see that, that's fair. What I don't like seeing is people treating the matter as if Rittenhouse got out of his home that day to blast at protestor at random - I doubt that very much. He was there to keep the peace and distribute medical supplies, he shot in self-defense. His parents were negligent in the sense that they allowed him to participate in a dangerous situation for no reason, and as a result he got into a heap of trouble. That could've been avoided entirely.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> I can see that, that's fair. What I don't like seeing is people treating the matter as if Rittenhouse got out of his home that day to blast at protestor at random - I doubt that very much. He was there to keep the peace and distribute medical supplies, he shot in self-defense. His parents were negligent in the sense that they allowed him to participate in a dangerous situation for no reason, and as a result he got into a heap of trouble. That could've been avoided entirely.


and even if he showed up without a Gun, the situation would of been 100% different. He might not have been embolden to flash a weapon, the others party would of viewed the weapon as a Threat and hostilities might of naturally blown over.. and 4 people when be home with their families today.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> I can see that, that's fair. What I don't like seeing is people treating the matter as if Rittenhouse got out of his home that day to blast at protestor at random - I doubt that very much. He was there to keep the peace and distribute medical supplies, he shot in self-defense. His parents were negligent in the sense that they allowed him to participate in a dangerous situation for no reason, and as a result he got into a heap of trouble. That could've been avoided entirely.


The way I see it is everyone was at fault. The protesters felt threatened by the fact that Rittenhouse was walking around with a rifle so the charged at him.

Rittenhouse felt threatened by the fact a mob charged him so he fired. 

Both sides are equally to blame. 

But the biggest blame must go to whoever bought him the rifle in the first place as he was underage to buy one.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> and even if he showed up without a Gun, the situation would of been 100% different. He might not have been embolden to flash a weapon, the others party would of viewed the weapon as a Threat and hostilities might of naturally blown over.. and 4 people when be home with their families today.


I fully suspect that if he wasn't armed, he'd be in the ICU with a concussion, but that's shoulda woulda coulda. If you charge an armed individual with the intention to do them harm, there's a very real possibility that it might be the last thing you do on this earth. At some point the scales tip over, and whatever happens after that is on you. It'd be different if he was an active shooter and they were heroically trying to stop him from shooting people, but that wasn't the case. He was minding his own business.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Is it okay if he defends himself in his own state when other people with guns come towards him



Seems like a simple fix for that is to take away all their guns, so they can't play at being tough.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> The way I see it is everyone was at fault. The protesters felt threatened by the fact that Rittenhouse was walking around with a rifle so the charged at him.
> 
> Rittenhouse felt threatened by the fact a mob charged him so he fired.
> 
> ...


The party at fault is always the aggressor. It doesn't matter if they feel threatened or not, the constitution makes no mention of feelings, it only mentions the right to bear arms, and they had no way of knowing if Rittenhouse was 18 or not, or if he was allowed to carry a weapon or not.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> I fully suspect thst if he wasn't armed, he'd be in the ICU with a concussion, but that's shoulda woulda coulda. If you charge an armed individual with the intention to do them harm, there's a very real possibility that it might be the last thing you do on this earth. At some point the scales tip over, and whatever happens after that is on you. It'd be different if he was an active shooter and they were heroically trying to stop him from shooting people, but that wasn't the case. He was minding his own business.


I think if he wasn't armed, He might of not been perceived as a threat, and Treated him like kid. Most people automatically Think of the Person Screaming angrily while hading a Holding a Firearm approaching me is up to no good..


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I think if he wasn't armed, He might of not been perceived as a threat, and Treated him like kid. Most people automatically Think of the Person Screaming angrily while hading a Holding a Firearm approaching me is up to no good..


We must've watched a different video then. That's neither here nor there though, it's for the courts to decide. To me it wasn't a murder, least of all premeditated murder, it was manslaughter. I would say negligent discharge too, but he had a good reason to shoot, so I'll scratch that. A cactus will grow out of the palm of my hand before I vilify anyone for self-defense, even if I disagree with them and think they've done wrong.

Old saying, don't mind me.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 7, 2020)

Safe harbor day (aka the deadline set by federal law for states to resolve challenges to election results) is tomorrow, trump needs the craziest of Hail Marys at this point. none of the previous court cases have come close to meeting the minimum amount of evidence needed, and no more cases can be filed after the 8th of December.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 7, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yea isn’t ironic When people allowed a 17 year old kid buy heavy assault rife, carried fire arms across state lines .. when he clearly just learned to wipe his own butt and can not handle open carry.. and unable to handle himself when he is confronted and fires his gun at multiple people, killing 2 and paralyzing 1


Good thing that the person that gave him the gun in the first place is also in trouble.  



shamzie said:


> Never understood this train of thought. 17 is a kid now? Why you allowing 17yr olds to drive cars then, they're death machines. Also im gaging from your response you dont think 17yr olds should be able to defend themselves.


A car isn't specifically design to kill, but putting that aside, you are meant to pass tests and have supervision. You don't need a gun to defend oneself.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> He was there to keep the peace and distribute medical supplies, he shot in self-defense.


If any of this were true, he never would have crossed the police line into the group of protesters.  Not to mention that good samaritans don't normally need to carry any firearm, let alone combat rifles.

He went there to play Call of Duty LARPer, like so many other people with the maturity and emotional intelligence of twelve-year-olds fantasize about.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Good thing that the person that gave him the gun in the first place is also in trouble.
> 
> 
> A car isn't specifically design to kill, but putting that aside, you are meant to pass tests and have supervision. You don't need a gun to defend oneself.



If you was a 90lb female facing an aggressive 200lb male, you might say differently, but you're not so you dont.



smf said:


> Seems like a simple fix for that is to take away all their guns, so they can't play at being tough.



I like this post, some studies seem to suggest games can make people violent. Seems like a simple fix would be to take away everybody's games, so they cant play at being tough.



smf said:


> Seems like a simple fix for that is to take away all their guns, so they can't play at being tough.



Some people who eat McDonalds are fat. Seems like a simple fix for that would be too take away everybodys McDonalds, so they don't get fat.



smf said:


> Seems like a simple fix for that is to take away all their guns, so they can't play at being tough.



Some people drink too much alcohol and become alcohol dependant. Seems like a simple fix would be to take away everybodys alcohol. So they don't become alcoholics.



smf said:


> Seems like a simple fix for that is to take away all their guns, so they can't play at being tough.



Some people have too much money. Seems like a simple fix for that would be to take away all their money. Because fuck Capitalism comrades.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 7, 2020)

I don't know what happened here on GBAtemp this past week, but has anybody talked about the Georgia suitcases?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't know what happened here on GBAtemp this past week, but has anybody talked about the Georgia suitcases?


The kraken has a better chance of proving itself real than those imaginary suitcases.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 7, 2020)

Xzi said:


> If any of this were true, he never would have crossed the police line into the group of protesters.  Not to mention that good samaritans don't normally need to carry any firearm, let alone combat rifles.
> 
> He went there to play Call of Duty LARPer, like so many other people with the maturity and emotional intelligence of twelve-year-olds fantasize about.


What combat rifle? Rittenhouse didn't have a combat rifle, stop diluting terms.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't know what happened here on GBAtemp this past week, but has anybody talked about the Georgia suitcases?



I covered it, it got dismissed because it wasn't posted by CNN.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I like this post, some studies seem to suggest games can make people violent. Seems like a simple fix would be to take away everybody's games, so they cant play at being tough.



I agree that modern games are likely going to desensitize people because of the realism, so maybe give everyone a c64.

But taking away games and not guns seems kinda pointless, because games aren't the only way people become desensitized to violence. Seeing gun crime does too.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 7, 2020)

smf said:


> I agree that modern games are likely going to desensitize people because of the realism, so maybe give everyone a c64.
> 
> But taking away games and not guns seems kinda pointless, because games aren't the only way people become desensitized to violence. Seeing gun crime does too.


Guns are the only method of murder.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't know what happened here on GBAtemp this past week, but has anybody talked about the Georgia suitcases?



https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/video-doesnt-show-suitcases-of-illegal-ballots-in-georgia/



UltraSUPRA said:


> Guns are the only method of murder.



No, but they are quite an effective one & other uses for an assault rifle are hard to find.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 7, 2020)

smf said:


> https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/video-doesnt-show-suitcases-of-illegal-ballots-in-georgia/


Yup, the containers aren't suitcases. Pack it up, everybody, it seems like voter fraud is impossible.


smf said:


> No, but they are quite an effective one & other uses for an assault rifle are hard to find.


I had some friends who liked hunting back in 6th grade.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> What combat rifle? Rittenhouse didn't have a combat rifle, stop diluting terms.


Sure as hell didn't look like a standard hunting rifle to me, but I won't claim that I'm expert enough to identify each and every firearm by make and model with one glance, either.  Regardless, it should go without  saying that nobody should be deifying a murderer or making excuses for him simply because he's on the same political "team" as them.  There's a word for that kind of violence with a political motive/agenda: terrorism.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I had some friends who liked hunting back in 6th grade.



I'm not sure "liking" something is a good enough reason.

Otherwise they wouldn't arrest people who liked marijuana, cocaine, heroin or meth.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I covered it, it got dismissed because it wasn't posted by CNN.



You ever consider maybe it got dismissed because it's bogus?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 7, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> You ever consider maybe it got dismissed because it's bogus?


Evidence: The fake ballots were put in official-looking vote boxes rather than suitcases.


smf said:


> I'm not sure "liking" something is a good enough reason.
> 
> Otherwise they wouldn't arrest people who liked marijuana, cocaine, heroin or meth.


You said you couldn't think of a reason to own an assault rifle other than to kill other people. I gave you one.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> You said you couldn't think of a reason to own an assault rifle other than to kill other people. I gave you one.



You tried to give a reason, but liking hunting with an assault rifle when you could hunt with other guns is not a reason.
I could say I liked hunting with thermonuclear warheads.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 7, 2020)

smf said:


> You tried to give a reason, but liking hunting with an assault rifle when you could hunt with other guns is not a reason.
> I could say I liked hunting with thermonuclear warheads.


It doesn't matter. Every gun law is an infringement.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It doesn't matter. Every gun law is an infringement.


Nah, wife and child beaters should not have the right to own a gun.  Frankly they should be imprisoned for life and therefore lose just about all of their rights, but that would mean locking up over half of all police officers in the US.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 7, 2020)

shamzie said:


> If you was a 90lb female facing an aggressive 200lb male, you might say differently, but you're not so you dont.


Because non-lethal weapons don't exist.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Evidence: The fake ballots were put in official-looking vote boxes rather than suitcases.
> .


 yup all those fake ballots in black official boxes with all the security labels  while thepoll place supervisor  was present.  and even though the REPUBLICAN STATE ELECTION OFFICIAL stated the tape already reviewed it was valid LEGAL votes and all other info was fraud misinformation. .. 
OH your talking bout that.. 
yea REPUBLICAN Georgia official already disproved that a week ago.


----------



## smf (Dec 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It doesn't matter. Every gun law is an infringement.



Laws are just words made by people, like the constitution.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Frankly (people who beat their wives and children) should be imprisoned for life and therefore lose just about all of their rights


We agree on something.


Xzi said:


> but that would mean locking up over half of all police officers in the US.


I doubt it.


djpannda said:


> yup all those fake ballots in black official boxes with all the security labels  while thepoll place supervisor  was present.  and even though the REPUBLICAN STATE ELECTION OFFICIAL stated the tape already reviewed it was valid LEGAL votes and all other info was fraud misinformation. ..
> OH your talking bout that..
> yea REPUBLICAN Georgia official already disproved that a week ago.


Source?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> hahahahahahahahahaha no
> 
> Provide evidence of your claims.



The entire fact check is that they are standard containers rather than suitcases.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Evidence: The fake ballots were put in official-looking vote boxes rather than suitcases.



hahahahahahahahahaha no

Provide evidence of your claims.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> We agree on something.
> 
> I doubt it.
> 
> ...



*“I’m proud that we’re able to look up after three recounts and watch and be able to see that this election was fair, Was it perfect? Absolutely not. I don’t know if any election was perfect in the history of this country.”* - Lt. GovernorDuncan

*“Right now, we don’t see anything that would overturn the will of the people here in Georgia,”*-Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger
"*What the video shows is that they have pulled out plastic bins from underneath the desks. Those are bins that they keep under their desks near the scanners,*" said Richard Barron, Fulton County's elections director.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 8, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Because non-lethal weapons don't exist.


Because lethal males don't exist.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 8, 2020)

djpannda said:


> "*What the video shows is that they have pulled out plastic bins from underneath the desks. Those are bins that they keep under their desks near the scanners,*" said Richard Barron, Fulton County's elections director.


The whole place was supposed to be shut down. What was stopping the people there from sneaking faulty ballots into those bins?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> The whole place was supposed to be shut down. What was stopping the people there from sneaking faulty ballots into those bins?



Is there video evidence of them doing it?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 8, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Is there video evidence of them doing it?


There is video evidence of them bringing out ballots in a clean room when everyone was supposed to have evacuated due to a busted pipe.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> There is video evidence of them bringing out ballots in a clean room when everyone was supposed to have evacuated due to a busted pipe.



OK. So, what?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> There is video evidence of them bringing out ballots in a clean room when everyone was supposed to have evacuated due to a busted pipe.


Make sure you check your blood pressure because you extra salty today


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 8, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> OK. So, what?


They lied. That's what.


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't know what happened here on GBAtemp this past week, but has anybody talked about the Georgia suitcases?



Things I put together on the declarations of the involved officials:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...he-united-states.576824/page-199#post-9287819

The point of view of another person which raises similar points to mine:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/0...unting-video-was-not-debunked-not-even-close/

You can also find other opinions, including in this thread.

In my opinion, shady but ultimately impossible to be certain with what we know so far.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> They lied. That's what.


Maybe they lied to you... and you ate it all up..


----------



## smf (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Evidence: The fake ballots were put in official-looking vote boxes rather than suitcases.



The fake votes for Trump. In reality he lost worse than the results show.

But let's not kick him while he is down.



fischermasamune said:


> https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/0...unting-video-was-not-debunked-not-even-close/



What we do know is that "sworn affidavit" is now worthless as an indication of whether someone is telling the truth.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 8, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Maybe they lied to you... and you ate it all up..


Yeah, like with the pipe bursting. I actually thought that a pipe blew up.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yeah, like with the pipe bursting. I actually thought that a pipe blew up.


Yup your so gullible UltraSALT


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 8, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yup your so gullible UltraSALT


So are you for not being suspicious.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I doubt it.


40% of police officers *self-report* as domestic abusers, knowing ahead of time that they won't face any consequences for it.  Who knows how many more keep it a secret, but I'm betting it's at least 10%, and that's why I said "more than half" would have to be locked up.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So are you for not being suspicious.


Sorry I usually can’t hear “DOG WHISTLES” but the fact you can says more bout you


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 8, 2020)

shamzie said:


> It's perfectly fine to insinuate i'd let my child walk around with a knife. Anyway I'll leave it at that before a mod comes and strikes me down again, you're perfectly fine to carry on accusing me of letting children walk around with assault weapons though. One rule for you lot as usual, different one for me.





shamzie said:


> Because lethal males don't exist.


Sounds like an excuse to give everyone a gun, but you seem to have already imply you are against that idea.


----------



## fischermasamune (Dec 8, 2020)

The state Chief Investigator involved with the case is Frances Watson. She showed the video (which is hours long and not available to the public), specially the moments involving that specific table and the ballots under it, to Justin Gray of WSB TV. Conclusion is that there was nothing special about those ballots.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics...urveillance-video/T5M3PYIBYFHFFOD3CIB2ULDVDE/

Watson wrote this affidavit, where she, based on video review of the footage and interviews, concludes the observers were asked to leave. She does mentions complaints about the water leak being used a reason to prod clerks, public observers and media to leave. Affidavit:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055/gov.uscourts.gand.284055.72.1.pdf

The two links above are evidence towards the absence of illegalities. On the other side, there is also an affidavit of a monitor Mitchell Harrison. I don't want to summary his claims so as to not distort them.

https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-harrison-affidavit

(Plus, of course, arguments and evidence pro and against it in the links people already provided.)


----------



## smf (Dec 8, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So are you for not being suspicious.



There is a difference between questioning and prejudging.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 8, 2020)

I came back to this thread...
And I believe I just lost a lot of braincells reading through everything.
At least this insanity is almost over.
One can only go through the same arguments over and over.
I'll simply put that, there is clearly no widespread election fraud in the 2020 election.
The court case ratio
1-42
is enough proof.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 8, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's not true. I've considered that Trump brokered his way into presidency and that this is all apart of the show.
> 
> Also, your account doesn't accurately describe what I proposed.


Except I have you on record claiming that it's the two political parties that "broker candidacy" in choosing the winner, which is why I don't consider that direct criticism:


tabzer said:


> The Republicans and the Democrats, alike, generally don't like leaving anything up to chance--so it's likely that they broker candidacy and negotiate who is going to win


If you were even halfway serious about election-related conspiracy, your focus would include the possibility that Trump himself has been compromised.  While I find his involvement unlikely, a conspiracy involving a minimum of one compromised individual is still *far* more "likely" than one involving dozens or hundreds of compromised individuals.  

Your conspiracy alleges that practically *every-single-person* in position to influence the election outcome has been compromised (i.e. Trump's 1-49 court record), while forgiving Trump of his long history of conspiracy and misinformation peddling.  The alternative merely suggests that the courts, states, and election watchdogs are doing their jobs as expected, while alleging that Trump is the one who's been compromised, which includes his conspiracy and misinformation peddling as evidence* rather than conveniently ignoring it*.


monkeyman4412 said:


> I came back to this thread...
> And I believe I just lost a lot of braincells reading through everything.
> At least this insanity is almost over.
> One can only go through the same arguments over and over.
> ...



How does *1-49* sound to you, monkeyman?



Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1336142921054232576


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 8, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Except I have you on record claiming that it's the two political parties that "broker candidacy" in choosing the winner, which is why I don't consider that direct criticism:
> 
> If you were even halfway serious about election-related conspiracy, your focus would include the possibility that Trump himself has been compromised.  While I find his involvement unlikely, a conspiracy involving a minimum of one compromised individual is still *far* more "likely" than one involving dozens or hundreds of compromised individuals.
> 
> ...


fucking lmao
1-49 is a painful number, at that point, why would they continue trying?


But yeah, at that point it's like doing the damage cap on already dead boss.
Clearly, like, super clearly, no widespread election fraud.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 8, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I came back to this thread...
> And I believe I just lost a lot of braincells reading through everything.
> At least this insanity is almost over.
> One can only go through the same arguments over and over.
> ...




42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything. oh and also trumps loss count.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 8, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> fucking lmao
> 1-49 is a painful number, at that point,* why would they continue trying?
> *
> But yeah, at that point it's like doing the damage cap on already dead boss.
> Clearly, like, super clearly, no widespread election fraud.



Here's the most likely reason, monkeyman:

*Trump campaign, RNC announce $200 million post-election fundraising haul*
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...nnounce-200-million-post-election-fundraising


> President Trump’s campaign and the Republican National Committee (RNC) have raised more than $200 million since Election Day, a sum gained through solicitations to fight against what the president falsely claimed was widespread voter fraud that influenced the 2020 election results.





> The Trump campaign and RNC announced the massive fundraising haul of *$207.5 million* Thursday evening, which they said was raised by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc., the RNC, the two joint fundraising committees* Trump Victory *(edit: LOL?) and the Trump Make America Great Again Committee, and Trump’s new Save America political action committee.



Here's my favorite part of the article:


> Earlier this week, *Attorney General William Barr said that the Justice Department has not found evidence of any widespread fraud* that would alter the result of the election, a stunning break to which Trump reacted negatively on Thursday.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Sure as hell didn't look like a standard hunting rifle to me, but I won't claim that I'm expert enough to identify each and every firearm by make and model with one glance, either.  Regardless, it should go without  saying that nobody should be deifying a murderer or making excuses for him simply because he's on the same political "team" as them.  There's a word for that kind of violence with a political motive/agenda: terrorism.


Listen, I can understand what you're saying, but I have to tell you, I recognise that it's coming out of a place of hate and I won't engage you on it much. The reason why you're saying that firearm was a dangerous combat rifle is because it was black, and I don't see colour - black, woodgrain, dark green, I treat them all equally. I resent this kind of prejudice and won't discuss it further.

Jokes aside, if you can buy it in the sporting goods section, it's probably not a combat rifle, it probably just looks cool, which is indeed pretty cool. Regarding terrorism, if it's the kind that takes out violent agitators who attack people in the middle of the street then I can get behind that. I've seen the rap sheets of the "victims", I very much doubt they were there to peaceably assemble, but you do you - there's nothing to discuss here, I won't budge. Everyone can see the video, to me it looks like self-defense, but it's up to the judge to figure this one out and I have no further input. What I will say is that if you, by your own admission, are not particularly expert at something, perhaps you shouldn't make definitive statements on those subjects. It wasn't a combat rifle, it was a typical modular platform rifle. "Looking scary" does not make it a military rifle, or a "combat rifle", whatever that means.


smf said:


> *Snip*


You're quoting the wrong person, I never said that, you may want to correct that to maintain the quote chain.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 8, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Except I have you on record claiming that it's the two political parties that "broker candidacy" in choosing the winner, which is why I don't consider that direct criticism:





tabzer said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > So, would you be making this same argument, if he had won just like 2016? "I don't trust the government. I think Biden still has a chance!"
> ...



Basically, it is passive, but it is an admission that Trump maybe apart of the presidential brokerage scheme.  To my defense, you weren't really that interested anyway.  So why say anything about it?



LumInvader said:


> If you were even halfway serious about election-related conspiracy, your focus would include the possibility that Trump himself has been compromised. While I find his involvement unlikely, a conspiracy involving a minimum of one compromised individual is still *far* more "likely" than one involving dozens or hundreds of compromised individuals.



That is how you interpret it.  That's not, at all how I see it.



LumInvader said:


> Your conspiracy alleges that practically *every-single-person* in position to influence the election outcome has been compromised (i.e. Trump's 1-49 court record)



It really doesn't.  As I have said before, I believe the bulk of those lawsuits only apply for the bare minimum of evidence in order to cast a semblance of doubt into the courtrooom. I don't think he is honestly trying to win them.  If he is as serious as I think he could be,  think he is just poke/testing the court system and getting all the judges on record to state their position before dropping the bombshell proof of election fraud.  That way he can campaign for running opposition, saying things like, "judge so and so was presented with evidence that the election may have been compromised, but instead of trying to get to the bottom of it, they chose to assist in covering up the dire problem of the fraud.  Vote for not-so and so, and make America greater than ever!"

There are two assumptions that seem to be seriously considered here.  One assumption is that he is desperate, and is trying to cling onto his Presidency by all means possible, which would mean that the losing count in the courtrooms are laughable desperation moves.  The other assumption is that he believed that the election, 4 years ago, was rigged against him, and has prepared for it this time.   If there is fraud, then why would he play his "Trump" card when he can milk this time for all the sweet intel?

The bottom line is that we never know with Trump.  He's narcissistic, but not stupid.  I think he wants to be the greatest, and if he proves election fraud happens in America, that would make him the greatest.  I think people ought to desire that, if election fraud is truly real, that Trump would be able to expose it--despite how much they think they should hate Trump.

What I first saw when I came into this thread, was that "because Trump made a bogus 'as a matter of a fact claim', we too, can make a claim that we cannot prove."  Nobody seems to be okay with not really knowing, and are overcompensating by pretending that they know.



LumInvader said:


> Earlier this week, *Attorney General William Barr said that the Justice Department has not found evidence of any widespread fraud* that would alter the result of the election, a stunning break to which Trump reacted negatively on Thursday.



Before we take that medicine, can we see how much he looked, if at all?  A lot of people dislike Barr because he seems useless for Trump, but he could be posturing.


----------



## smf (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> You're quoting the wrong person, I never said that, you may want to correct that to maintain the quote chain.



Sorry, no idea how that happened. I don't think it's worth fixing, we're all just shouting at the moon.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> "Looking scary" does not make it a military rifle, or a "combat rifle", whatever that means.



But it does mean that the people who tried to take the gun from him were acting in self defense when he shot them.


----------



## notimp (Dec 8, 2020)

jimbo13 said:


> 1. Hunter Biden is under current FBI criminal investigation, neither The Bgman or Hunter Biden have disputed the legitimacy of the laptop


On the "Biden-China scare" - watch this:


Then dont fall over into the 'all collusion, everything is collusion' narative quite yet, but contrast with this:
https://www.dw.com/en/joe-biden-trump-us-china-trade-war-asia-india/a-55588355

and read this for more context:
https://www.dw.com/en/china-bares-teeth-in-wolf-warrior-trade-diplomacy/a-55720212

DW.com is the german foreign news channel, so government funded:
https://www.dw.com/en/who-finances-dw/a-36767785

At the very least - this should give you an 'image' that doesnt include blackmail as a structural tool. As in generally it doesnt. As in - it wouldnt work. Everything is set up to "exchange mutual favors".

If you go down further in interpretation, it helps to know that China has declared a 'domestic growth decade' (which chinese export industry doesnt like), and the event in the video up top is a public event - where the professor cited 'dumbs down' rethoric. meaning, he doesnt speak to his peers. So if seen under that light - its probably public appeasement. (To a large extent.) China having to pronounce 'a domestic growth decade', means reduced growth potential for many stakeholders.


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Dec 8, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, no, please understand, my dear friend.  I want you to be happy and get all hyped for a Harris.. I mean... a Biden administration because then your tears will be tainted with all that despair you're all going to suffer from once Trump is declared the winner that will only make them sweeter.
> 
> If you folks decide to ignore all the evidence and odd happenings, then you can only blame yourselves for what happens.  Of course, I bet you'll still blame white men and black Trump supporters for all your issues.


Cope harder


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

smf said:


> But it does mean that the people who tried to take the gun from him were acting in self defense when he shot them.


It absolutely does not. It's perfectly legal to carry this kind of weapon, either openly or concealed, depending on state law. The three attackers (and they were attackers) had no way of knowing he was underage, so they attacked him for no reason. You do not have the right to disarm anyone on a whim, that's how you get shot.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 8, 2020)

smf said:


> Sorry, no idea how that happened. I don't think it's worth fixing, we're all just shouting at the moon.



You can speak for yourself with that one.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Regarding terrorism, if it's the kind that takes out violent agitators who attack people in the middle of the street then I can get behind that.


The violent agitator in this scenario is the kid who crossed state lines, arrived at the protest, and then crossed the police line, all while (illegally) carrying a firearm.  No private citizen has the right to carry out extrajudicial killings, and attempting to justify murder after the fact is fucking absurd.  "Oh look, this guy had a jaywalking charge on his record...guess he deserved the death penalty."

If one political party in particular continues to encourage and cheer for violence, we're going to end up in another Civil War.  And while that might be what Republicans think they want right now, it would ultimately end up just like the previous one: with most of the South burned to the ground.



Foxi4 said:


> It's perfectly legal to carry this kind of weapon, either openly or concealed, depending on state law.


He didn't have the weapon registered in WI, nor did he have any permit for carrying a weapon in the state.  He was carrying illegally at the time of the murders, not that that should be the most important point of emphasis anyway.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The violent agitator in this scenario is the kid who crossed state lines, arrived at the protest, and then crossed the police line, all while (illegally) carrying a firearm.  No private citizen has the right to carry out extrajudicial killings, and attempting to justify murder after the fact is fucking absurd.  "Oh look, this guy had a jaywalking charge on his record...guess he deserved the death penalty."
> 
> If one political party in particular continues to encourage and cheer for violence, we're going to end up in another Civil War.  And while that might be what Republicans think they want right now, it would ultimately end up just like the previous one: with most of the South burned to the ground.


Everything you've just mentioned had precisely nothing to do with the fact that he was attacked by three individuals and used his weapon to defend himself. Flip your own reasoning the other way - the fact that he was illegally carrying a firearm doesn't make it justifiable to attack him, which is precisely what happened. He wasn't blasting at anyone like a maniac - he fired only once he was attacked. *Clearly* he was not the aggressor. I'm fully in favour of punishing him for illegally carrying, however he did not, in my eyes, commit murder. He was defending his life and limb.


> He didn't have the weapon registered in WI, nor did he have any permit for carrying a weapon in the state. He was carrying illegally at the time of the murders, not that that should be the most important point of emphasis anyway.


Irrelevant in the context of smf's assertion. "Being scared" doesn't justify aggression, which was the point.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Everything you've just mentioned had precisely nothing to do with the fact that he was attacked by three individuals and used his weapon to defend himself. Flip your own reasoning the other way - the fact that he was illegally carrying a firearm doesn't make it justifiable to attack him, which is precisely what happened. He wasn't blasting at anyone like a maniac - he fired only once he was attacked. *Clearly* he was not the aggressor. I'm fully in favour of punishing him for illegally carrying, however he did not, in my eyes, commit murder. He was defending his life and limb.


You're basically attempting to apply "stand your ground" laws to a kid who was hundreds of miles from home.  He put himself in that situation knowing full well he wouldn't be greeted with open arms by his political opposition; he went there seeking conflict.  Pointing a gun at people who are simply exercising their first amendment rights is an act of aggression.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You're basically attempting to apply "stand your ground" laws to a kid who was hundreds of miles from home.  He put himself in that situation knowing full well he wouldn't be greeted with open arms by his political opposition; he went there seeking conflict.



Stand your ground is about defending property, no?  This was him defending his life.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You're basically attempting to apply "stand your ground" laws to a kid who was hundreds of miles from home.  He put himself in that situation knowing full well he wouldn't be greeted with open arms by his political opposition; he went there seeking conflict.


You stand your ground wherever your feet happen to stand, anything short of that is an egregious infringement of the immutable right to life. "Not being at home" is not a justification for getting pummeled over the head with a skateboard.


> (...) he went there seeking conflict. Pointing a gun at people who are simply exercising their first amendment rights is an act of aggression.


You have no evidence of that. He went armed because he expected a riot to take place and he carried a weapon for his own personal safety - that's the sensible interpretation. He was also right - he was attacked. It's nice of you to bring up the constitution - attacking people as a mob as they exercise their second amendment right is not acceptable, and his attackers had no knowledge of whether he was carrying legally or not. That's an act of aggression - you can tell by the fact that they attacked him, on video.


tabzer said:


> Stand your ground is about defending property, no?  This was him defending his life.


That's castle doctrine.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> You stand your ground wherever your feet happen to stand, anything short of that is an egregious infringement of the immutable right to life. "Not being at home" is not a justification for getting pummeled over the head with a skateboard.


Again, he crossed the police line looking for conflict.  He was pointing a loaded weapon at people simply for exercising their first amendment rights.  That's an act of aggression, and aggression in response is to be expected.

If only a claim of "self defense" was the catch-all you're making it out to be, people getting revenge for police killing their dogs would be a much simpler matter.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The violent agitator in this scenario is the kid who crossed state lines, arrived at the protest, and then crossed the police line, all while (illegally) carrying a firearm.  No private citizen has the right to carry out extrajudicial killings, and attempting to justify murder after the fact is fucking absurd.  "Oh look, this guy had a jaywalking charge on his record...guess he deserved the death penalty."
> 
> If one political party in particular continues to encourage and cheer for violence, we're going to end up in another Civil War.  And while that might be what Republicans think they want right now, it would ultimately end up just like the previous one: with most of the South burned to the ground.
> 
> ...





Foxi4 said:


> You stand your ground wherever your feet happen to stand, anything short of that is an egregious infringement of the immutable right to life. "Not being at home" is not a justification for getting pummeled over the head with a skateboard.
> 
> That's castle doctrine.



the kid is still gonna get fucked for illegally carrying a firearm across state lines, improper discharge of a firearm, either manslaughter or criminal negligence, committing a straw purchase, and a huge host of other offenses. he's pretty damn fucked. a bunch of what he did was criminally stupid, and he should get the book thrown at him. also i love how people are calling Rittenhouse a "kid" when he is 17. people argued that Trayvon Martin wasn't a kid because he was 17. if Rittenhouse doesn't see the inside of a jail cell, our country is going to lose it's fucking mind.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

omgcat said:


> the kid is still gonna get fucked for illegally carrying a firearm across state lines, improper discharge of a firearm, either manslaughter or criminal negligence, committing a straw purchase, and a huge host of other offenses. he's pretty damn fucked.


Apparently he didn't carry the rifle across state lines - the investigation corrected that misconception. The weapon belonged to his friend in Wisconsin. Rittenhouse will face no gun charges in Illinois. He will get screwed for carrying illegally though.

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-u...osha-killer-wont-face-gun-charges-in-illinois


Xzi said:


> Again, he crossed the police line looking for conflict.  He was pointing a loaded weapon at people simply for exercising their first amendment rights.  That's an act of aggression, and aggression in response is to be expected.
> 
> If only a claim of "self defense" was the catch-all you're making it out to be, people getting revenge for police killing their dogs would be a much simpler matter.


By all means, continue defending an angry mob assaulting people in the middle of the street, I don't really care if you change your mind or not - I started by saying that this is a matter for the court to rule on and I finish by saying that it's for the court to decide. I hope the ruling will be sensible.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Apparently he didn't carry the rifle across state lines - the investigation corrected that misconception. The weapon belonged to his friend in Wisconsin. Rittenhouse will face no gun charges in Illinois. He will get screwed for carrying illegally though.
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/live-u...osha-killer-wont-face-gun-charges-in-illinois



and improper discharge of a weapon, he injured/maimed/killed someone with an improper discharge as well. there is also going to be a bunch of civil suits against him that will bankrupt him and his family for life.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

omgcat said:


> and improper discharge of a weapon, he injured/maimed/killed someone with an improper discharge as well. there is also going to be a bunch of civil suits against him that will bankrupt him and his family for life.


It's not a negligent discharge - he was being assaulted. We'll see how things shake up for him though, he really shouldn't have been there at all.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

omgcat said:


> also i love how people are calling Rittenhouse a "kid" when he is 17. people argued that Trayvon Martin wasn't a kid because he was 17. if Rittenhouse doesn't see the inside of a jail cell, our country is going to lose it's fucking mind.


Oh don't get me wrong, he should 100% be charged as an adult.  I only call him "kid" as an insult to him and all the other mentally/emotionally stunted Republicans who like to play CoD LARPer.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, he should 100% be charged as an adult.  I only call him "kid" as an insult to him and all the other mentally/emotionally stunted Republicans who like to play CoD LARPer.


To be fair, his line of defense stands even if he was tried as an adult, which he most likely will be.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, his line of defense stands even if he was tried as an adult, which he most likely will be.


His line of defense is extremely flimsy regardless of how he's charged.  As is typical for America, the outcome will likely be determined by how much money his family has, and which lawyer(s) they hire.

At least one of the murders is on video, FFS.  This would be an open and shut case in any sensible justice system.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> His line of defense is extremely flimsy regardless of how he's charged.  As is typical for America, the outcome will likely be determined by how much money his family has, and which lawyer(s) they hire.


Or, alternatively, guilt or innocence will be decided based upon on the law of the land. Wisconsin is not a Stand your Ground state, it's a middle ground state, meaning you have a duty to retreat, with the proviso that it only applies when you can do so with absolute safety. By the time Kyle pulled the trigger he was already falling to the ground and getting hit. Wisconsin does not require retreat when one is threatened with assault. The ruling will depend entirely on the evidence and the court's opinion on whether he was in danger, as well as the court's determination if he himself was actively posing a threat to others.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, his line of defense stands even if he was tried as an adult, which he most likely will be.



the civil suits are going to be brutal on him, damage to public property (bullet holes in surfaces if any), damages to people near by (possible hearing damage), emotional damages to the family.

also Foxi4, the use of an illegally obtained weapon strips you of stand your ground, and can cause huge damage to a self-defense case.

also in Wisconsin, self-defense cannot be claimed when the claimant is committing an unlawful act such as illegal carry of a gun. He was not legally able to carry that gun, or buy it, so his right to self-defense is fucked.

"*939.48(2)(a) (a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.*"

it all hinges on whether or not he could have reasonably left the situation.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

omgcat said:


> the civil suits are going to be brutal on him, damage to public property (bullet holes in surfaces if any), damages to people near by (possible hearing damage), emotional damages to the family.
> 
> also Foxi4, the use of an illegally obtained weapon strips you of stand your ground, and can cause huge damage to a self-defense case.
> 
> ...


This is false. Let me bold the relevant section.


> 939.48(2)(a) (a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, *except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.* In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant *unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant*.


Laying down on the ground, having a grown adult sitting on you and hitting you with a blunt object is a pretty good justification, and it prevents you from escaping safely. Good try though.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> This is false. Let me bold the relevant section.
> Laying down on the ground, having a grown adult sitting on you and hitting you with a blunt object is a pretty good justification, and it prevents you from escaping safely. Good try though.





Foxi4 said:


> This is false. Let me bold the relevant section.
> Laying down on the ground, having a grown adult sitting on you and hitting you with a blunt object is a pretty good justification, and it prevents you from escaping safely. Good try though.



except for the part where he put himself in that situation to begin with. he didn't need to bring and brandish a weapon to a protest during a lock down. he was in the situation voluntarily, while illegally owning and carrying a weapon all while past curfew as a minor, in a state he doesn't even live in.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> The ruling will depend entirely on the evidence and the court's opinion on whether he was in danger, as well as the court's determination if he himself was actively posing a threat to others.


So basically his case hinges on the jury determining that a skateboard is a more deadly threat than a fully-loaded hunting rifle?  Again, I'd say good luck with that in any non-corruptible, sensible justice system.  In America where white supremacists, cops, and judges are all in bed together though?  That defense might just be stupid enough to work.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

omgcat said:


> except for the part where he put himself in that situation to begin with. he didn't need to bring and brandish a weapon to a protest during a lock down. he was in the situation voluntarily, while illegally owning and carrying a weapon all while past curfew as a minor.


This is correct, and a separate matter altogether that's waived by the very same statute you posted. Again, for the courts to ponder over - my point was that the statute you posted doesn't preclude him from using self-defense, even with an illegal weapon. He'll still get weapons charges though, and possibly manslaughter.



Xzi said:


> So basically his case hinges on the jury determining that a skateboard is a more deadly threat than a fully-loaded hunting rifle?  Again, I'd say good luck with that in any non-corruptible, sensible justice system.  In America where white supremacists, cops, and judges are all in bed together though?  That defense might just be stupid enough to work.


It's not about what's more dangerous, it's about whether his life was threatened or not. I say it was, judging by the publically available evidence.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> This is correct, and a separate matter altogether that's waived by the very same statute you posted. Again, for the courts to ponder over - my point was that the statute you posted doesn't preclude him from using self-defense, even with an illegal weapon. He'll still get weapons charges though, and possibly manslaughter.



Wisconsin is not a stand your ground state, so he had a legal duty to exhaust all avenues of safety before discharging his weapon. participating in an illegal protest voids that as he should not have been there in the first place, thus he didn't exercise all avenues of safety. in Wisconsin having his gun out like that could also be considered provocation in the scenario that played out.

he will most likely get manslaughter, or possibly 3rd degree murder which caps at 25 years.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Wisconsin is not a stand your ground state, so he had a legal duty to exhaust all avenues of safety before discharging his weapon. participating in an illegal protest voids that as he should not have been there in the first place, thus he didn't exercise all avenues of safety.


The time frame is important. You're interested in the encounter specifically, not what he was doing beforehand. He has the same freedom of movement as everybody else and can in fact travel across state lines. His "avenues of escape" are considered from the moment the clash started, not prior - he's not Doctor Who, he didn't have a Tardis to travel in time with and figure out that he was going to get assaulted.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> It's not about what's more dangerous, it's about whether his life was threatened or not. I say it was, judging by the publically available evidence.


As we've established, he was only ever threatened in response to threats he made initially (by pointing a gun at people carelessly).  Personally I'd call it hyperbolic at best to suggest a skateboard was a threat to his life.  He might've been knocked out, and then the cops or EMTs would've picked him up.  A firearm being part of the equation at all leads to escalation from both victim and attacker, as the stakes are immediately raised.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 8, 2020)

So much for the Supreme Court being the ace in the hole, eh?

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/9442...-bid-to-reverse-pennsylvania-election-results


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> As we've established, he was only ever threatened in response to threats he made initially (by pointing a gun at people carelessly).  Personally I'd call it hyperbolic at best to suggest a skateboard was a threat to his life.  He might've been knocked out, and then the cops or EMTs would've picked him up.  A firearm being part of the equation at all leads to escalation from both victim and attacker.


You must've never been hit over the head then. Like I said, I think this is a matter for the courts to decide upon. In complete isolation, looking at just the incident alone, I can completely understand why he would feel threatened and why he'd fire. To me it's textbook self-defense, which doesn't change the fact that he did break the law and should be charged appropriately. What I don't like is trying to crucify him for doing what comes to everyone naturally - fight or flight. When someone pushes you to the ground and starts hitting you, you have a reasonable justification for defending yourself, at least in my eyes, and your avenues of escape have been cut off.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 8, 2020)

Texas is suing 4 states over election results. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/brea...4-states-at-supreme-court-over-election-rules


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Texas is suing 4 states over election results.
> 
> https://www.dailywire.com/news/brea...4-states-at-supreme-court-over-election-rules


Well, more specifically, Texas is suing over the manner in which those states have changed their election rules, which could be considered unconstitutional. The rules for selecting electors are supposed to be set by the legislature, not by the courts or other governmental bodies.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> What I don't like is trying to crucify him for doing what comes to everyone naturally - fight or flight. When someone pushes you to the ground and starts hitting you, you have a reasonable justification for defending yourself, at least in my eyes.


Again that's assuming you weren't first pointing a loaded gun at the person who shoved you, as Rittenhouse was.  Self-defense goes both ways, and the people who actually live and work in Wisconsin have a much more legitimate claim to it than an angry teenage incel who crossed state lines specifically to target protestors with opposing political views.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Again that's assuming you weren't first pointing a loaded gun at the person who shoved you, as Rittenhouse was.  Self-defense goes both ways, and the people who actually live and work in Wisconsin have a much more legitimate claim to it than an angry teenage incel who crossed state lines specifically to target protestors with opposing political views.


Let's not forget that Kyle wasn't just attacked with a skateboard - one of the three attackers also threatened him with a handgun, that's the individual whose arm was maimed. It was perfectly reasonable for Kyle to assume that he was in mortal peril. I would have to review the two tapes and the photographs to verify your gun-waving allegation, but if you want to travel back in time to before the confrontation took place, Rittenhouse is on record publicly stating his intentions, none of which include suppressing first amendment rights. He went there for the explicit purpose of protecting life and property. The whole thing's a mess if you ask me, however I can't help but side with the person who was on the ground being beaten as opposed to those who were doing the beating. It's regrettable that those riots took place at all, so much violence and property damage could've been avoided of cooler heads prevailed.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Rittenhouse is on record publically stating his intentions, none of which include suppressing first amendment rights. He went there for the explicit purpose of protecting life and property.


And we all know modern day Republicans/Trump supporters would never lie.  Murder, sure, but lying?  That's one line they'll never cross.  



Foxi4 said:


> It's regrettable that those riots took place at all, so much violence and property damage could've been avoided of copper heads prevailed.


Almost like we should be hiring police with cool heads to avoid any more extrajudicial killings and and thus avoid the riots that result from them, eh?  Human lives are more valuable than any property, despite what Trump's coronavirus response would have you believe.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2020)

Xzi said:


> And we all know modern day Republicans/Trump supporters would never lie.  Murder, sure, but lying?  That's one line they'll never cross.
> 
> Almost like we should be hiring police with cool heads to avoid any more extrajudicial killings and and thus avoid the riots that result from them, eh?  American lives are more valuable than property, despite what Trump's coronavirus response would have you believe.


This applies until it's your property, your family business, that's being looted and set on fire. Putting that aside, two wrongs don't make a right. Setting cities on fire is not a great way to show that your community is being policed too harshly, or that the police is not sufficiently trained. Quite the opposite - when the city's on fire, it's time to call in the big guns and disperse the rabble. First amendment right to peaceably assemble is one thing, destroying livelyhoods of your fellow neighbours who did absolutely nothing to cause the problem is another. The violence and destruction makes the message resonate weaker, not stronger - it's hard to empathise with people who are actively destroying their own towns and cities.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 8, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> The violence and destruction makes the message resonate weaker, not stronger - it's hard to empathise with people who are actively destroying their own towns and cities.


What you're missing here is that these are neighborhoods where roughly 90% to 95% of citizens have no investment and no stake in the upkeep of their towns and cities.  They've been segregated, gentrified, and generally boxed out by mega-corporations.  On top of which, there's a pandemic ongoing which has put an extra strain on small businesses and caused many of them to close.  Then to put a nice little bow on top of everything, they're policed by people who don't live in their neighborhood and don't look or act like them.

With this type of desperation and poverty being a constant, riots should be wholly expected.  Frankly the only surprising thing about them is that a smaller spark didn't set them off sooner.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 8, 2020)

Seems like if the other guy didn't go for the disarm and immediately went in blazing, Rittenhouse might have been shot instead.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 9, 2020)

*The U.S. Supreme Court denies Republican appeal of 2020 election results in Pennsylvania*
https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/11/120820zr_bq7d.pdf


> (ORDER LIST: 592 U.S.)
> TUESDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2020
> ORDER IN PENDING CASE
> 20A98 KELLY, MIKE, ET AL. V. PENNSYLVANIA, ET AL.
> ...



Three more nails in the wide-spread election conspiracy coffin:

- Trump appointee Justice Neil Gorsuch
- Trump appointee Justice Brett Kavanaugh
- Trump appointee Justice Amy Coney Barrett






One sentence denial.  Not a single dissenting opinion.  Trump and his allies are now a mind-boggling *1-51* in post-election litigation. 

RIP wide-spread conspiracy kraken


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

You are behind on the show.  There's a new episode.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 9, 2020)

The Supreme Court rejection has to sting a bit. I was wondering what happen to JIMBO with the those *Clarence Thomas Memes*. He was soo adamant Thomas was going to use the Supreme Court to express some personal vendetta.  But 1 sentence reject usually means everyone agreed in Unison.

oh yea... he got Suspended again.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are behind on the show.  There's a new episode.


tab, are you referring to this episode?
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1336331358642163725


----------



## Xzi (Dec 9, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> tab, are you referring to this episode?
> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1336331358642163725


God I don't know how much dumber this whole thing can get...they don't even realize what getting their way would mean here.  It would give New York or California the power to determine the outcome of elections in Texas.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

Xzi said:


> God I don't know how much dumber this whole thing can get...they don't even realize what getting their way would mean here.  It would give New York or California the power to determine the outcome of elections in Texas.


How so?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How so?


If Texas can use the courts to make other states to overturn their election results, the opposite is also true.  Obviously no individual state holds that type of power over the others though, so the lawsuit is completely farcical and a waste of time and resources for all involved.  If the judge is smart he'll hold them accountable for that waste.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

Xzi said:


> If Texas can use the courts to make other states to overturn their election results, the opposite is also true.  Obviously no individual state holds that type of power over the others though, so the lawsuit is completely farcical and a waste of time and resources for all involved.  If the judge is smart he'll hold them accountable for that waste.



States can already file suit against other States.  The grounds is on the violation of the constitution.  The case is being brought to the Supreme Court.

"Under Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, the Supreme Court of the United States has original jurisdiction over cases between states."


----------



## omgcat (Dec 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> States can already file suit against other States.  The grounds is on the violation of the constitution.  The case is being brought to the Supreme Court.
> 
> "Under Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, the Supreme Court of the United States has original jurisdiction over cases between states."



it'll get thrown out from lack of standing. just because you can sue, doesn't mean the judge can't throw it out for being brain dead retarded. I guarantee the supreme court won't grant cert, because if they do, the court gets sued for conflict of interest since Trump appointed 3/9 justices.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> States can already file suit against other States. The grounds is on the violation of the constitution. The case is being brought to the Supreme Court.
> 
> "Under Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, the Supreme Court of the United States has original jurisdiction over cases between states."


And they'll refuse to hear it, just like they refused to hear the PA case.  Even Trump's SCOTUS appointees aren't stupid enough to commit political suicide by laying bare their biases in that way.  They can still be impeached, after all.



omgcat said:


> it'll get thrown out from lack of standing. just because you can sue, doesn't mean the judge can't throw it out for being brain dead retarded. I guarantee the supreme court won't grant cert, because if they do, the court gets sued for conflict of interest since Trump appointed 3/9 justices.


Precisely.  Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.


----------



## Seliph (Dec 9, 2020)

Every time I reopen this thread to check what's going on I take 50 psychic damage


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 9, 2020)

The lawsuit from texas can be said in just one word. Bullshit. Texas can not intervere with the other states results, because it does not concern them outside of political stuff, which is personal. This case will get thrown out and Texas will be called a peice of shit for even thinking about filing this case, let alone actually file it. This is litterally just a attempt for the general to get a pardon from trump, as you can see with the scandle going on right now with him before this suit even came to play. Its time for this to end, its pretty clear that trump will most likely be a one term president, the first one since i think the 1980 or 1970s. And running for 2024? No president has even done that successfuly but cleavland, and that was also really long ago. While trump has done, maybe one or two things well, (Im talking about when he tried to ban Titok, that cancer should die.) Its time for trump to go out with a bang. He lost, and could do a lot of things right during the span of a month. (Doubt it, and even then when jan 20 comes, that wont be the only time he will be serving.) Its pretty much set in stone that trumps lawsuits would, and have fail. While biden isnt the greatest, he could at least reform this country somewhat, by giving us more coronavirus protection. And towards the Republicans that think trump won, Your braindead. He lost. At least he did not kill the country or the entire world, I will give him credit for that, but even your uncle bob could do that. In conclusion, GOP, give up on trump for now. He will lose, and would go down as a one term president, just wait 4 more years for a new face to try the hand, of america.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

"Case dismissed on the grounds of braindead retarded bullshit."


----------



## omgcat (Dec 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Case dismissed on the grounds of braindead retarded bullshit."



This but non-ironically. The AG of texas is fishing for a pardon from trump.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

I personally see "our vote is compromised by their vote, because we followed the constitution and they did not" as a valid contention.  Saying it's none of their business could be something SCOTUS says.  But the election is Federal, so...


----------



## Xzi (Dec 9, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I personally see "our vote is compromised by their vote, because we followed the constitution and they did not" as a valid contention.  Saying it's none of their business could be something SCOTUS says.  But the election is Federal, so...


The constitution specifies that elections are run by the states.  The only unconstitutional thing to come from this election is Trump's sad attempt at a coup.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The constitution specifies that elections are run by the states.  The only unconstitutional thing to come from this election is Trump's sad attempt at a coup.


So you are saying, that even if SCOTUS agrees, and that these states violated their own legislature, and/or the constitution...  that the outcome is a successful coup by Trump?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 9, 2020)

Do my eyes deceive me? Liberals fighting for states' rights? Am I having a stroke? Am I... Am I dead?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 9, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Do my eyes deceive me? Liberals fighting for states' rights? Am I having a stroke? Am I... Am I dead?


yea if anyone dig up a bit of info  the Texas AG is being investigated for some serious crimes (by other Republicans) so it does feel like he phishing for a pardon "see President Trump, I fought for you" 
But the fun part is there is only 40days left to see how to plays out ( not who wins because safe harbor day already past, but what wacky things Trump does or say)


----------



## tabzer (Dec 9, 2020)

January 20th is the fixed day in the constitution, although RGB argued that Jan 6th is the day of reckoning.  There is always the possibility of an unprecedented action (the trend now) extending it further.

However, the point was about liberals fighting for states' rights, only for a means to an end, as an indication of moral bankruptcy.

Of course it's not all liberals; just the vocal few that feel the need to say something on this particular subject.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 9, 2020)

Either way, if texas does the one in quadrillion chance to win these case, its still bad for everyone because, 1. The democracy would probarly be ruined. And 2. If texas is able to bully smaller states to let trump win, then CA, my home state, would fuck every state, even texas if they want to go on this bagwaggon.
I know trump is trying hard to get this case to win, as since its safe harbor day already passed, they cant really sue without it getting immeditly dismissed, so this is the last case that they could be doing that could do something. But, this is stupid. Apparently the supreme court are gonna respond to the lawsuit on if they want to hear it or not on thursday. Guess which one is gonna be it?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 9, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Either way, if texas does the one in quadrillion chance to win these case, its still bad for everyone because, 1. The democracy would probarly be ruined. And 2. If texas is able to bully smaller states to let trump win, then CA, my home state, would fuck every state, even texas if they want to go on this bagwaggon.


 I was just thinking that TX should be worried about this lawsuit because if it entertained by the Supreme Court, then that opens the flood gates and we will see a lot of states attack Southerns states Voting regulations. 
 I don't think the TX AG even cares. my Opinion is that he's phishing for a Pardon and will walk away when he gets it, LET the next AG deal with the mess.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I was just thinking that TX should be worried about this lawsuit because if it entertained by the Supreme Court, then that opens the flood gates and we will see a lot of states attack Southerns states Voting regulations.
> I don't think the TX AG even cares. my Opinion is that he's phishing for a Pardon and will walk away when he gets it, LET the next AG deal with the mess.


Even then, some of the crimes he had done were on the state level. So, if those go through, hes gonna end up in a orange jumpsuit with his buddies in prison.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 9, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Even then, some of the crimes he had done were on the state level. So, if those go through, hes gonna end up in a orange jumpsuit with his buddies in prison.


no remember he might be viewed as a Hero to the Republicans base in TX for this stunt and new AG might just delay the state case  enough for people to "forget" about it, to drop it or reduce it


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> no remember he might be viewed as a Hero to the Republicans base in TX for this stunt and new AG might just delay the state case  enough for people to "forget" about it, to drop it or reduce it


Hmm, thats seems like it, only problem is if he does get cleared of all crimes, he basicelly commited political suicide. Because the demos will know hes a bitch, and a good amount of republicans would think that too.. (Remember, republicans were the one to accuse him.) So, yeah hes dying in prision, or dying in politics.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 9, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Hmm, thats seems like it, only problem is if he does get cleared of all crimes, he basicelly commited political suicide. Because the demos will know hes a bitch, and a good amount of republicans would think that too.. (Remember, republicans were the one to accuse him.) So, yeah hes dying in prision, or dying in politics.


..If you follow World Politics. It happens all the time .. Leaders were convicted of crimes Flee the Country and come back in 5-10 year and Get reelection..  I have a feeling People are just going to claim the charges against the AG were Political and ignore them, just let the 2024 chants


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 9, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ..If you follow World Politics. It happens all the time .. Leaders were convicted of crimes Flee the Country and come back in 5-10 year and Get reelection..  I have a feeling People are just going to claim the charges against the AG were Political and ignore them, just let the 2024 chants


Welp, shit.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 10, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So you are saying, that even if SCOTUS agrees, and that these states violated their own legislature, and/or the constitution... that the outcome is a successful coup by Trump?


I keep telling you that SCOTUS is not going to hear the case.  And an attempted coup is both unconstitutional and a crime (sedition) regardless of whether it's successful or not.  Add it to the laundry list of criminal charges Trump should be facing once he's out of office.



Foxi4 said:


> Do my eyes deceive me? Liberals fighting for states' rights? Am I having a stroke? Am I... Am I dead?


Well I'm not a liberal, but even they have done a better job sticking up for states rights the last four years than conservatives.  See: weed legalization as an example.  Republicans only seem to care about states rights insofar as they allow for discrimination, and they HATE the idea of states rights whenever they're in control of the federal government.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 10, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I keep telling you that SCOTUS is not going to hear the case.  And an attempted coup is both unconstitutional and a crime (sedition) regardless of whether it's successful or not.  Add it to the laundry list of criminal charges Trump should be facing once he's out of office.
> 
> 
> Well I'm not a liberal, but even they have done a better job sticking up for states rights the last four years than conservatives.  See: weed legalization as an example.  Republicans only seem to care about states rights insofar as they allow for discrimination, and they HATE the idea of states rights whenever they're in control of the federal government.



more like the SCOTUS doesn't want to take the case, and risk an extra 7 million disenfranchised voters stringing them up in the streets. if they overturn this election, the USA falls apart. I want the 33 states who aren't calling for this BS to boycott the 17 states that are. they can grow their own food and Dev their own tech. no more handouts from blue states to them.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I keep telling you that SCOTUS is not going to hear the case. And an attempted coup is both unconstitutional and a crime (sedition) regardless of whether it's successful or not.



So, if SCOTUS accepts the case, and favors the plaintiff--that means that SCOTUS is corrupt?


"The Constitution provides that state legislatures — not federal judges, not state judges, not state governors, not other state officials — bear primary responsibility for setting election rules," Justice Neil Gorsuch


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So, if SCOTUS accepts the case, and favors the plaintiff--that means that SCOTUS is corrupt?


Correct.  Even just agreeing to hear the case would be evidence of corruption/conflict of interest, but again, Republicans are all about self-preservation first and foremost, and that includes Trump's SCOTUS appointees.  They won't stick their necks out for him or anyone else now that they have their cushy lifetime seats on the court.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> They won't stick their necks out for him or anyone else now that they have their cushy lifetime seats on the court.





Xzi said:


> Even just agreeing to hear the case would be evidence of corruption/conflict of interest



These contradict each other.  You say they are not interested, but then you say if they were, it'd be a conflict of interest.  SCOTUS is not owned by the President, by your admission.  How would it be a conflict of interest?


A State made an accusation about other States violating the constitution and it's wrong for SCOTUS to concern itself with that?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> These contradict each other. You say they are not interested, but then you say if they were, it'd be a conflict of interest. SCOTUS is not owned by the President, by your admission. How would it be a conflict of interest?


It's not contradictory at all, I'm saying they won't agree to hear the case because to do so would mean risking their own positions.  Trump appointed three of them, and therein lies the conflict of interest.  No, he doesn't own his appointees, but even humoring such a case would show that he still holds sway over them, and that they're willing to place party above country and constitution.

Given that they already refused to hear a case to overturn PA, there's not a snowball's chance in hell they agree to hear a case about overturning PA and several other states.  Courts do not decide elections.  Trump's legal team has already been told that a million times and in a million different ways, and yet they still don't seem to get it.



tabzer said:


> A State made an accusation about other States violating the constitution and it's wrong for SCOTUS to concern itself with that?


Pennsylvania has filed a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the lawsuit is seditious and unconstitutional in itself.  And they're 100% on target with that.  Texas' AG should face civil charges at the very least, if not criminal charges following this.  Speculation is that he was only ever fishing for a pardon from Trump to begin with, because he had previously committed crimes while in office.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 11, 2020)

Another frivolous lawsuit bites the dust. #55
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1337096464997244929


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Given that they already refused to hear a case to overturn PA, there's not a snowball's chance in hell they agree to hear a case about overturning PA and several other states.



That's not true.  Emergency injunctive relief was denied but the case is still live.



Xzi said:


> Courts do not decide elections.



But SCOTUS already has and does determine legitimacy concerning votes on grounds of a state's legislation.  That's precedent.



Xzi said:


> Pennsylvania has filed a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the lawsuit is seditious and unconstitutional in itself.



How is it unconstitutional?  It would be seditious if it had no merit.  One state rats on another state about breaking the constitution and you expect SCOTUS to ignore it and even punish the state that told?  Lol.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 11, 2020)

The "You lost, get it over it" crowd really doesn't seem to be getting over their loss


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 11, 2020)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The "You lost, get it over it" crowd really doesn't seem to be getting over their loss


Because they have wrapped a lot of their identity up in their politics and have attached that feeling to Trump and therefore treat anything negative about him as if it is a personal attack on them while being masters of projection as well. 

Main reasons I stopped even trying to have a conversation with them in the first year of his presidency is laid bare here.

Calling everyone who disagrees with them or posts a source that doesn't agree with their bias liberal, leftist, commie,, 0-IQ, basement-dwelling, hair-dying, cucked SJW's and then trying to play innocent when they can't figure out why no one enjoys their presence and they get banned every 5 seconds and then thinking "it's because I'm conservative isn't it?"

The best example I can think of is the one user that isn't even from the US that is taking this so damn personally too, and keeps thinking that no one likes his sources because "they're not from CNN", when in reality it's actually from a far-right propaganda site that has been known to create hoaxes and spread misinformation in the past. 

This is after, of course, people literally offered him a list of middle of the road sources to choose from. 

Somehow wanting 100% proof and non-biased news is a bad thing thing to these guys....who would guess considering how much they hate "fake news" as well. 

TLDR: They are actually hypocrites that are just acting out because their preferred candidate lost.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's not true. Emergency injunctive relief was denied but the case is still live.


I don't know if you're thinking of a different case or what, but every SCOTUS justice unanimously declined to hear the one I'm thinking of.



tabzer said:


> But SCOTUS already has and does determine legitimacy concerning votes on grounds of a state's legislation. That's precedent.


No, there is no such precedent.  The most any court has been involved in an election was the year 2000, when SCOTUS decided to halt Florida's recount.  They made no determination on the legitimacy of individual votes, even despite the "hanging chad" controversy.



tabzer said:


> How is it unconstitutional?


We've been over this.  The constitution specifies, in no uncertain terms, that states run elections.  Asking a federal court to determine the outcome of an election is both unconstitutional and undemocratic.



tabzer said:


> One state rats on another state about breaking the constitution and you expect SCOTUS to ignore it and even punish the state that told? Lol.


Damn right I do, sedition must be punished or we'll be dealing with Republicans attempting to undermine and destroy democracy before, during, and after every future election.

The Electoral College is a horrendously antiquated and vestigial institution.  It makes no difference whatsoever who the electors are or who they're chosen by, their only purpose is to vote for the same candidate that won their state's popular vote.  Now, if you want to argue that we should do away with it altogether, I'm certainly on board, but that would mean Biden wins all the same, and it would benefit Democrats more than Republicans in future elections.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I don't know if you're thinking of a different case or what, but every SCOTUS justice unanimously declined to hear the one I'm thinking of.



Source? Motion for injunctive relief being denied is not the same as a case being rejected.



Xzi said:


> We've been over this. The constitution specifies, in no uncertain terms, that states run elections. Asking a federal court to determine the outcome of an election is both unconstitutional and undemocratic.



There is a certain term and SCOTUS has made a ruling, earlier this year, regarding it.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...es-change-wisconsins-voting-rules/3670662001/


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Source? Motion for injunctive relief being denied is not the same as a case being rejected.


I believe that motion was the entirety of what was left of that case.  Rudy was filing to change the details of it for like the third or fourth time, and SCOTUS was having none of it.  So yes, that case is effectively dead.



tabzer said:


> There is a certain term and SCOTUS has made a ruling, earlier this year, regarding it.
> 
> https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...es-change-wisconsins-voting-rules/3670662001/


Though I do think that's overstepping their role, that is not the same as determining the outcome of the election in that state, and it is not the same as determining legitimacy of individual votes.  Wisconsin adhered to that ruling and Biden still won there.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I believe that motion was the entirety of what was left of that case. Rudy was filing to change the details of it for like the third or fourth time, and SCOTUS was having none of it. So yes, that case is effectively dead.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...39e16c-397d-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

The injunction was denied, but the case is still pending afaik.



Xzi said:


> Though I do believe that's overstepping their role, that is not the same as determining the outcome of the election in that state, and it is not the same as determining legitimacy of individual votes. Wisconsin adhered to that ruling and Biden still won there.



Wisconsin may have, but did all other states?  If votes are found to be unconstitutional, for the reason provided, by POTUS, they could be rejected, altering the course of the election.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 11, 2020)

How are we still going about this discussion of "trump can still win"
all 50 states certified their election.
There is no room at this point, and even the Supreme Court decided to not listen to the PA case. (as if it would change much at this point)


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Supreme Court decided to not listen to the PA case.


Source?  WAPO didn't make that claim.  If I understand correctly, it's being included with the TX case.  It's quite the show.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Source?  WAPO didn't make that claim.  If I understand correctly, it's being included with the TX case.  It's quite the show.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/sup...sh-to-overturn-biden-win-in-pennsylvania.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...attempt-to-overturn-election/?sh=58b06aed6eff
Forbes according to
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/forbes/
Is center right, along with having generally mostly factual information.
We also have cnbc, which according to it
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnbc/
also has generally  mostly factual information
while having a left center bias.
So there are my sources, and the reason I came to my conclusion that yes this is over.


I generally avoid using cnbc and or forbes, however in this case the more centered/less biased outlets (who are also more accurate) are taking longer to discuss about it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

"The application for injunctive relief presented to Justice [Samuel] Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied."

This isn't the case.  It's an emergency injunction that was applied for prior the hearing of the case.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...39e16c-397d-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html
> 
> The injunction was denied, but the case is still pending afaik.


Well there's no suggestion that case is still ongoing in the article.  All it says is that the request was unanimously denied and then it quickly moves on to the Texas case.  Rudy's also got the rona, so there's no chance the case proceeds before the electoral college votes.



tabzer said:


> Wisconsin may have, but did all other states?


I don't believe SCOTUS made any rulings relevant to the other states prior to election day.



tabzer said:


> If votes are found to be unconstitutional, for the reason provided, by POTUS, they could be rejected, altering the course of the election.


POTUS does not get to determine which votes are and are not valid any more than SCOTUS does.  That's...again...a determination made by the states.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I don't believe SCOTUS made any rulings relevant to the other states prior to election day.



Their ruling is about the interpretation of the constitution and establishes a position on  legislation defining the validity of a vote.




Xzi said:


> Well there's no suggestion that case is still ongoing in the article.



Yeah, it's a little misleading.



Xzi said:


> POTUS does not get to determine which votes are and are not valid any more than SCOTUS does. That's...again...a determination made by the states.



Lol, my typo.  If a state violates the constitution in regards to a vote, SCOTUS can intervene.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Their ruling is about the interpretation of the constitution and establishes a position on legislation defining the validity of a vote.


That ruling was about the deadline for accepting mail-in ballots, it was applicable to Wisconsin only, and it had nothing to do with determining the validity of votes.  You're talking to the wrong guy if you want to convince somebody that apples are actually oranges.



tabzer said:


> Lol, my typo. If a state violates the constitution in regards to a vote, SCOTUS can intervene.


We're just going in circles here.  The lawsuit alleges a violation of the constitution due to how the electors were chosen, but a ruling by any justice in favor of the prosecution would also be a violation of the constitution in that it takes away the power to run elections from the states.  It's a catch-22, and that's precisely why they won't dare to hear the case.  Well, that, and also because it would signal the end of democracy in the US, cause mass riots to break out immediately, and cause SCOTUS to lose all authority and any veneer of legitimacy.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> That ruling was about the deadline for accepting mail-in ballots, it was applicable to Wisconsin only, and it had nothing to do with determining the validity of votes.



The case was how SCOTUS ruled on Wisconsin, in regards to voting.  SCOTUS didn't attack Wisconsin.  It defended their interpretation of the constitution.  Which it might do again.



Xzi said:


> The lawsuit alleges a violation of the constitution due to how the electors were chosen, but a ruling by any justice in favor of the prosecution would also be a violation of the constitution in that it takes away the power to run elections from the states.



According to you, I guess.  But you aren't applying that logic when SCOTUS ruled on Wisconsin.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> According to you, I guess. But you aren't applying that logic when SCOTUS ruled on Wisconsin.


Because SCOTUS didn't determine the outcome of the election in Wisconsin or take away the state's power to run the election.  How are you not getting that setting a deadline for mail-in ballots has nothing to do with either of those things?  And IIRC the only reason they bothered to do that was because a Wisconsin court had previously set the deadline three days after the election.  They shot their shot already, that was the best that Trump's appointees could do to try to rig the election in his favor, and it failed.  They aren't able to hide behind that same air of ambiguity with the current case, now that the election is long past decided.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

You are suggesting that changing/enforcing deadlines over mail in ballots have nothing to do with how states run elections.  You are unreliable.

"The Constitution provides that state legislatures — not federal judges, not state judges, not state governors, not other state officials — bear primary responsibility for setting election rules,"


----------



## omgcat (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are suggesting that changing/enforcing deadlines over mail in ballots have nothing to do with how states run elections.  You are unreliable.
> 
> "The Constitution provides that state legislatures — not federal judges, not state judges, not state governors, not other state officials — bear primary responsibility for setting election rules,"



It is up to a state's own legislature to decide these things. as such one state can't tell another state that its legislature didn't do the right thing. so Texas suing Michigan or any other state is DOA, because it's not up to Texas what happens. imagine if CA or NY decides to sue TX because they closed down the drive through voting, or that they limited the drop off boxes too much. states rights, and PA/WI/MI/AZ are telling the other 17 states to fuck off.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are suggesting that changing/enforcing deadlines over mail in ballots have nothing to do with how states run elections. You are unreliable.


No, I'm suggesting that the supreme court changed the ruling of another court.  That is within their power.  Any attempt by a federal court to rule directly on the outcome of elections or the way states run elections is unconstitutional.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

omgcat said:


> It is up to a state's own legislature to decide these things



This is %100 the point.  The argument is that State's legislation was bypassed to enforce more lenient voting methods.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This is a %100 the point.  The argument is that State's legislation was bypassed to enforce more lenient voting methods.



what voting methods were changed, and when did the changes happen? also, why wasn't this brought up in court before the election? or a week after? or 2 weeks after? why is this suddenly a problem now 4+ weeks after the election, and 6+ weeks after early voting?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This is %100 the point.  The argument is that State's legislation was bypassed to enforce more lenient voting methods.


It's on a case-by-case basis, but in at least one state I recall the court choosing electors because the deadline had passed for the legislature to select them.  You cannot very well enter election day without any electors chosen, unless we were to abolish the electoral college, that is.

As far as more lenient deadlines for mail-in ballots are concerned, the Supreme Court had the opportunity to rule on that and only did so for Wisconsin, which means they deliberately let the other state courts' rulings stand.  This lawsuit would have had to have been filed BEFORE the election to possibly make any difference.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 11, 2020)

yup, definitely fishing for pardons.

"*The investigation started after top Paxton aides alleged to the FBI in early October they believe Paxton may be committing crimes that include abuse of office and bribery in his dealings with Austin investor Nate Paul.


The group claimed Paxton took a number of steps to benefit Paul, whose offices were raided by the FBI last year. Those steps included hiring an outside investigator to investigate Paul's assertion that the FBI violated his constitutional rights during the raid.*"


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> the Supreme Court had the opportunity to rule on that and only did so for Wisconsin, which means they deliberately let the other state courts' rulings stand.



I don't think so.  The case brought before SCOTUS was about Wisconsin, not other states.  Sure, they could have taken the additional step to say that the constitution applies to all states, but lol.




omgcat said:


> why is this suddenly a problem now 4+ weeks after the election, and 6+ weeks after early voting?



Yes, the response from the defendant states state this as a reason why the case should be discarded.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

But if you ask why, maybe because they were waiting for the states to resolve the issue, and when that didn't happen, they wanted to submit a formal suit before the deadline of Dec 8.



SonowRaevius said:


> The best example I can think of is the one user that isn't even from the US that is taking this so damn personally too, and keeps thinking that no one likes his sources because "they're not from CNN", when in reality it's actually from a far-right propaganda site that has been known to create hoaxes and spread misinformation in the past.



Sounds like you are crying.  Is this about me?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't think so. The case brought before SCOTUS was about Wisconsin, not other states. Sure, they could have taken the additional step to say that the constitution applies to all states, but lol.


The constitution says nothing about mail-in ballot deadlines.  So yes, just like the Wisconsin case, any challenges to the legality of individual states' deadlines would've had to come BEFORE the election.  Asking SCOTUS to change the result afterward is pretty much akin to asking each of the justices to eat a Tide Pod.  It's not gonna happen, and you're living in a fantasy if you still believe it will.  A dangerous fantasy which is likely to encourage violence and terrorism, at that.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The constitution says nothing about mail-in ballot deadlines. So yes, just like the Wisconsin case, any challenges to the legality of individual states' deadlines would've had to come BEFORE the election.



The constitution specifies state's legislation as the authority.  If methods of voting fall outside of a state's legislation, it is contentious with the constitution.  Methods, deadlines, and auditing procedures are all being addressed by the suit.  This has been a mounting/escalating situation.  Where is it said that "any challenges to the legality of individual states (election procedures) need to come before an election"?  Just because that was that an excuse made by a lower court in order to dismiss the obligation of observing evidence does not mean SCOTUS will see it the same way.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Where is it said that "any challenges to the legality of individual states (election procedures) need to come before an election"?


It's just common fucking sense.  The people decide the outcome of elections, so you can't give them the all clear to go vote and then later suggest their votes should be invalidated due to some technicality.  That's not how democracy works.  There is no precedent for any US court overturning the results of an election, because the moment that happens is the moment this country ceases to be a democratic republic.

You don't like the results for whatever reason, I get that.  That doesn't mean the losing side gets to determine the rules for everybody retroactively.  The lawsuit is frivolous at best, seditious and treasonous at worst.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It's just common fucking sense.



Plaintiff:  They cheated
Defendent:  They have to make the claim before we cheat.



Xzi said:


> The people decide the outcome of elections, so you can't give them the all clear to go vote and then later suggest their votes should be invalidated due to some technicality.



Yes, via legislation.  If a governor or court supersedes the legislation, then that is on those parties for making it a mess and misguiding the public; even if some people won't see it that way.  It wasn't SCOTUS who said, "go ahead and vote, haha just kidding".  The US is a constitutional federal republic, and the wording of the constitution is probably not a going to be brushed off as a technicality by the current SCOTUS.



Xzi said:


> That's not how democracy works. There is no precedent for any US court overturning the results of an election, because the moment that happens is the moment this country ceases to be a democratic republic.



We live in unprecedented times.  There is nothing colloquial about what's going on, and I don't think any citizen can honestly verify that US has been or is a Democracy.  If SCOTUS does establish a new precedent, it's going to shatter a lot of people's current view.  It's also going to affirm a lot of others'.  No matter which way this goes, a lot of people are going to be dissatisfied.  Based on what I surmise of Trump, I don't think this is even his last card.  He will probably keep fighting Joe if he makes it to the inauguration.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Plaintiff: They cheated
> Defendent: They have to make the claim before we cheat.


Trump's team has not won a single case where voter fraud was alleged, as they had zero evidence.  By your own admission this isn't even what the current lawsuit is about, it's only about the deadlines for mail-in ballots.



tabzer said:


> It wasn't SCOTUS who said, "go ahead and vote, haha just kidding".


That's because nobody needs SCOTUS' permission to go vote.  They aren't meant to be involved in the process at all.



tabzer said:


> We live in unprecedented times. There is nothing colloquial about what's going on, and I don't think any citizen can honestly verify that US has been or is a Democracy.


There's only one grifter claiming the election was illegitimate, as opposed to every elections expert, foreign and domestic, Republican and Democrat, who have verified that this election was one of the most secure in modern history.



tabzer said:


> If SCOTUS does establish a new precedent, it's going to shatter a lot of people's current view.


Again, the precedent wouldn't last long, because for all intents and purposes, the USA would dissolve if a few select rich and powerful individuals get to pick our leaders for us.  The constitution would no longer mean anything, and the rule of law would be dead, along with at least a few SCOTUS justices likely to join it.



tabzer said:


> No matter which way this goes, a lot of people are going to be dissatisfied.


Correct, but these assholes also had this defeat coming, and they should've been able to see it coming a mile away.  They spent the last four years agitating, harassing, and provoking everyone they possibly could, deepening the country's divisions in the process.  Of course nobody cares if they're dissatisfied now...if anything their dissatisfaction puts a smile on the majority of Americans' faces.



tabzer said:


> Based on what I surmise of Trump, I don't think this is even his last card. He will probably keep fighting Joe if he makes it to the inauguration.


You surmise wrong then.  It's true the closest thing to an admission of defeat we could've expected from him was allowing Biden's transition to begin, but he's entirely powerless the moment the electoral college votes.  There's been a fair amount of reporting lately that his family intends to leave to Mar-A-Lago for Christmas and never come back to the White House, and that absolutely tracks with the character of such a sore loser.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trump's team has not won a single case where voter fraud was alleged, as they had zero evidence. By your own admission this isn't even what the current lawsuit is about, it's only about the deadlines for mail-in ballots.



The zero evidence claim simply isn't true.  Evidence has mounting since the claim was made,  There is more evidence today than yesterday.  That's the trend.  It has been easy for some states to dismiss it, and other states had to throw out cases on excuses like "it's too late", or "this isn't worth my time".  Also, I believe this suit includes all complaints/submissions related to fraud.  I don't know how you got to "by your own admission".  



Xzi said:


> That's because nobody needs SCOTUS' permission to go vote. They aren't meant to be involved in the process at all.



They are meant to handle disputes that cannot be resolved on the state level, or conflicts coming through the interstate/federal level.  The states need legislative structure to validate their voting process.  If a state violates the constitution practicing outside of legislation, then SCOTUS could be compelled to intervene.



Xzi said:


> There's only grifter claiming the election was illegitimate, as opposed to every elections expert, foreign and domestic, Republican and Democrat, who have verified that this election was one of the most secure in modern history.



They must not be familiar with Dominion machines then, or they are saying that ironically.

https://streamable.com/yzrypo
https://streamable.com/u7nav7






Xzi said:


> Correct, but these assholes also had this defeat coming, and they should've been able to see it coming a mile away. They spent the last four years agitating, harassing, and provoking everyone they possibly could, deepening the country's divisions in the process. Of course nobody cares if they're dissatisfied now...if anything their dissatisfaction puts a smile on the majority of Americans' faces.



They have a similar way of thinking.  You think you are apart of the majority of America because you listen and believe in the news that affirms that.  You hang out in places where people will upvote you and make you feel accepted.  What if you are just apart of a minority who is just really noisy?



Xzi said:


> You surmise wrong then. It's true the closest thing to an admission of defeat we could've expect from him was allowing Biden's transition to begin, but he's entirely powerless the moment the electoral college votes. There's been a fair amount of reporting lately that his family intends to leave to Mar-A-Lago for Christmas and never come back to the White House, and that absolutely tracks with the character of such a sore loser.



Well I don't know about all of that.  I'm just giving this thread until Jan 20th.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The zero evidence claim simply isn't true. Evidence has mounting since the claim was made, There is more evidence today than yesterday. That's the trend. It has been easy for some states to dismiss it, and other states had to throw out cases on excuses like "it's too late", or "this isn't worth my time". Also, I believe this suit includes all complaints/submissions related to fraud. I don't know how you got to "by your own admission".


Are we seriously going to be playing word salad today... sigh
Let me just cut through your bullshit.
"Evidence has mounting since the claim was made."
Evidence that has been thrown out of the court/dismissed over 50 times now.
*over 50 times*
compared to a single one win, in which said win didn't even really target widespread election fraud.
*Because there is no widespread election fraud*
If the courts are dismissing it, not even at the actual trial phase, but at the very beginning where you need to give just a little bit of proof.
Then clearly they do not have  enough evidence to back up their claim.



tabzer said:


> They have a similar way of thinking. You think you are apart of the majority of America because you listen and believe in the news that affirms that. You hang out in places where people will upvote you and make you feel accepted. What if you are just apart of a minority who is just really noisy?


Well, looking at poll ratio's here. I would easily argue that there are more left leaning people than right on this site.
Which, this site while not perfect, has given us some small in-sight into who is the majority. and quite overwhelmingly on this site it's left leaning. Combined with additional polling, which happens to have similar leanings.
As you just tried to imply, (that democrats/left leaning people  are the minority) it would be the other way around.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The zero evidence claim simply isn't true.


It is, otherwise Trump's team wouldn't have been laughed out of the courtroom 55 times.  No evidence was provided in a single one of those cases, just wild speculation and talk of a kraken.  By the end of it, Rudy's star witness was some drunk homeless lady.  They're finished with the voter fraud angle, it only remains relevant to partisan conspiracy theorists online.



tabzer said:


> If a state violates the constitution practicing outside of legislation, then SCOTUS could be compelled to intervene.


A justice cannot violate the constitution by overturning election results.  That's all this ultimately boils down to.  If they do, the constitution is no better than a used tissue, the entire thing becomes invalid.



tabzer said:


> They must not be familiar with Dominion machines then, or they are saying that ironically.


They're perfectly familiar with Dominion machines, the results from which were validated multiple times.  If you're looking for a conspiracy with a bit more evidence to back it, look into ES&S voting machines.  Those are the only machines whose reported outcomes were a drastic departure from all polling, including exit polling.  To the benefit of Republicans, of course.



tabzer said:


> You think you are apart of the majority of America because you listen and believe in the news that affirms that.


No, I *know* I'm a part of the majority because I'm not a Republican.  Registered Democrats alone have outnumbered registered Republicans for decades, and no Republican president has won the popular vote for 16 years.  Add in independents and unaffiliated voters, and you start to see just how much of a minority Republicans truly are.  A loud minority, but a minority nonetheless.



tabzer said:


> Well I don't know about all of that. I'm just giving this thread until Jan 20th.


Good call.  I've said all that can possibly be said on the subject.  I knew it would be about 300 pages into this thread before the final Trump supporter would stop clinging to delusion like a rat clings to a sinking ship, but I never thought that person would be from Japan.  IIRC Trump was insulting to your Prime Minister on multiple occasions, if not outright racist toward him at times.  Anyway, I'll check in again once SCOTUS unanimously declines to hear the case.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 11, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The zero evidence claim simply isn't true.  Evidence has mounting since the claim was made,  There is more evidence today than yesterday.  That's the trend.  It has been easy for some states to dismiss it, and other states had to throw out cases on excuses like "it's too late", or "this isn't worth my time".  Also, I believe this suit includes all complaints/submissions related to fraud.  I don't know how you got to "by your own admission".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When people say they have evidence of voter fraud, they mean the 20 people who were pressured to change their vote. While yes, some people are trying to bend the system and commit voter fraud, its a stupid claim of its widespread. Its not, and the evidence people have is either flimsey at best, or horrible at worst. Some people have been pressured, some people have tried to vote twice, that is true, but the widespread fraud of 170,000 votes being true? Thats just compelete BULLSHIT.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 11, 2020)

Supreme court refuses to hear the case. stick a fork in them, they're done.

7 justices deny for lack of standing.
2 Would grant motion for petition but deny relief.

No justice sides with TX/Trump.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Supreme court refuses to hear the case. stick a fork in them, they're done.
> 
> 7 justices deny for lack of standing.
> 2 Would grant motion for petition but deny relief.
> ...


Welp, that's it, biden won, no debating, he won.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Supreme court refuses to hear the case. stick a fork in them, they're done.
> 
> 7 justices deny for lack of standing.
> 2 Would grant motion for petition but deny relief.
> ...



Came here to post this. I thought the SCOTUS was supposed to be the ace in the hole, where you just ask them to do something and they're like "oh, OK, guess Trump wins now"






NPR link, because more perspectives are always a good thing - https://www.npr.org/2020/12/11/945617913/supreme-court-shuts-door-on-trump-election-prospects


----------



## omgcat (Dec 12, 2020)

If you or a loved one has suffered from the Copeiod crisis, and are on the edge, here is the number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

1-800-273-8255

stay safe.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Supreme court refuses to hear the case. stick a fork in them, they're done.
> 
> 7 justices deny for lack of standing.
> 2 Would grant motion for petition but deny relief.
> ...


They smacked them down *hard* with this one, told Texas not to bother attempting to file any more lawsuits about the election.





omgcat said:


> If you or a loved one has suffered from the Copeiod crisis, and are on the edge, here is the number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.
> 
> 1-800-273-8255
> 
> stay safe.


"Copeiod crisis."  I'm dead.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> They smacked them down *hard* with this one, told Texas not to bother attempting to file any more lawsuits about the election.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i'm kind of sad i don't get to see jimbo's reaction.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> i'm kind of sad i don't get to see jimbo's reaction.


Let me guess, he got suspended?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Supreme court refuses to hear the case. stick a fork in them, they're done.
> 
> 7 justices deny for lack of standing.
> 2 Would grant motion for petition but deny relief.
> ...



And now a fitting tribute to this farce:


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 12, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Let me guess, he got suspended?


I think them damn liberal mods silenced his right to free speech again  But fear not he will be back soon to spread his deranged bullshit/lies and hatred.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> And now a fitting tribute to this farce:



Trump's legal team thought they were hot, guess what?  They're not.  Their case is dead, dead, dead.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 12, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I think them damn liberal mods silenced his right to free speech again  But fear not he will be back soon to spread his deranged bullshit/lies and hatred.


Alright, I do need a couple of laughs nowadays with all of the COVID and stuff.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 12, 2020)

This means war.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 12, 2020)

sorry I late I was watching a movie and Bam news
 broke..


UltraSUPRA said:


> This means war.


Lol what happen? Soo sad.. Your started moving the goal post soo much, I guesss it broke you

War? Cuz the Supreme court (3 appointed by Trump ) did not let you start a coup... lol *Pathetic, what happen to "Law and Order" Your a joke!*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

and I hope JImbo is doing ok! is suspended but He might just be lurking around..
REMEBER Suicide is not the answer... be safe


----------



## omgcat (Dec 12, 2020)

14th amendment section 3 anyone? Anyone who participated in this farce should be prohibited from running for congress. looking at you loeffler and perdue.

"*Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.*"


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 12, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Supreme court refuses to hear the case. stick a fork in them, they're done.
> 
> 7 justices deny for lack of standing.
> 2 Would grant motion for petition but deny relief.
> ...


Fake News. Anything that isn't a right wing conspiracy website or hasn't came from Trump himself, is just left wing "news" run by Marxists. Now give me a site that tells me that Trump still has a chance has won the election or your are just bias.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 12, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Fake News. Anything that isn't a right wing conspiracy website or hasn't came from Trump himself, is just left wing "news" run by Marxists. Now give me a site that tells me that Trump still has a chance has won the election or your are just bias.


newsmax ( the title sound like now they against Trump
*Supreme Court Rejects Texas Lawsuit and Trump Bid to Undo Election Loss*
and OAN is not even reporting it. lol


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 12, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This means war.


war on what?



Are you claiming it's war because trump fairly lost?
Which at that point would be a war on democracy... so....
I don't think you would want to wager that war.
Since wouldn't that be up against the first amendment?
The people spoke they don't want t trump, they voted for not trump, and got their result.
Are you saying those that didn't vote for Trump should be silenced?
be strange to silence those people. Since wouldn't that be revoking the first amendment on them?
I'm morbidly curious to find out what you mean.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 12, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> war on what?


I think most of them are in a Corner crying.  
You all should read the NewsMax website comments, Thats funny half of them crying/want war and the other half is laughing at them.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 12, 2020)

djpannda said:


> newsmax ( the title sound like now they against Trump
> *Supreme Court Rejects Texas Lawsuit and Trump Bid to Undo Election Loss*
> and OAN is not even reporting it. lol


Look, we all know that Newsmax is the radical left. /enough of that. lol


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 12, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Look, we all know that Newsmax is the radical left.


Oh boy... we are about to go through
_an experince_
as I'd imagine Trump is now going to 180 from saying earlier that it is the real news (never was) to now being fake news.All because they said something orangeman doesn't like.
this is going to be entertaining, shall I get the popcorn?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> war on what?


Why, the war on Christmas of course!  /s


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 12, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This means war.



You know I didn't say it at first because I was trying to be nice about it, but wanting a damned civil war because your selected candidate didn't win the is most idiotic, immature, and cult-like fucking thing that has ever been posted on the internet.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Why, the war on Christmas of course!  /s


Would Easter be next?
I swore that there was already a war on Christmas.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 12, 2020)

djpannda said:


> The Supreme Court rejection has to sting a bit. I was wondering what happen to JIMBO with the those *Clarence Thomas Memes*. He was soo adamant Thomas was going to use the Supreme Court to express some personal vendetta.
> oh yea... he got Suspended again.


I said it Wednesday but it fits for today too


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> It is, otherwise Trump's team wouldn't have been laughed out of the courtroom 55 times. No evidence was provided in a single one of those cases, just wild speculation and talk of a kraken. By the end of it, Rudy's star witness was some drunk homeless lady. They're finished with the voter fraud angle, it only remains relevant to partisan conspiracy theorists online.



I agree that that there is no proof provided.  I agree that the evidence provided does not meet a standard of proof in those cases according to the judges.  But I will not agree that there is "zero evidence".



Xzi said:


> A justice cannot violate the constitution by overturning election results. That's all this ultimately boils down to. If they do, the constitution is no better than a used tissue, the entire thing becomes invalid.



"Texas does not ask this Court to reelect President Trump, and Texas does not seek to disenfranchise the majority of Defendant States’ voters. To both points, Texas asks this Court to recognize the obvious fact that Defendant States’ maladministration of the 2020 election makes it impossible to know which candidate garnered the majority of lawful votes. The Court’s role is to strike unconstitutional action and remand to the actors that the Constitution and Congress vest with authority for the next step. U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1, cl. 2; 3 U.S.C. § 2"

If a state has an unconstitutional election, then the "election results" are not even real.

Regardless, you were right about Texas not having the position to challenge GA and the other states.  I don't know if that is right or wrong, but that's how SCOTUS rejected the case.  The only acceptable way for this case to reach the floor is if it was brought through the defendant states themselves.



Xzi said:


> They're perfectly familiar with Dominion machines, the results from which were validated multiple times. If you're looking for a conspiracy with a bit more evidence to back it, look into ES&S voting machines. Those are the only machines whose reported outcomes were a drastic departure from all polling, including exit polling. To the benefit of Republicans, of course.



I have high doubts.  Also, I do not think election fixing is beyond democrats or republicans.



Xzi said:


> No, I *know* I'm a part of the majority because I'm not a Republican. Registered Democrats alone have outnumbered registered Republicans for decades, and no Republican president has won the popular vote for 16 years. Add in independents and unaffiliated voters, and you start to see just how much of a minority Republicans truly are. A loud minority, but a minority nonetheless.



Democrats are only %31 of the American public.  Many democrats will not argue that the elections in America *are free and fair.  It is my belief that the majority of America is dissatisfied with two party political system, how elections are managed, and believe that there is too much corruption.  I am not Republican, but I do believe that the majority of Americans are not going to be smiling about Joe Biden being president, even if that means Trump lost.



Xzi said:


> I knew it would be about 300 pages into this thread before the final Trump supporter would stop clinging to delusion like a rat clings to a sinking ship, but I never thought that person would be from Japan.



I support any attempt to pull back the curtain, regardless of who does it.  I would rather have another Trump presidency, and sham elections be revealed as opposed to a perfect president and a farcical election process.  Neither of those situations seem to be a possibility at this point.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Dec 12, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This means war.



Babies aren't allowed in war.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Democrats are only %31 of the American public. Many democrats will not argue that the elections in America *are free and fair. It is my belief that the majority of America is dissatisfied with two party political system, how elections are managed, and believe that there is too much corruption.


And Republicans are something like 27% or less.  A rather sizeable portion of Americans pay no attention to politics at all and don't vote, but I was referring to the politically active crowd when I said "majority."



tabzer said:


> I am not Republican, but I do believe that the majority of Americans is not going to be smiling about Joe Biden being president, even if that means Trump lost.


Biden is going to be spending the next four years shoveling all the shit Trump left behind out of government.  He's not really going to have time for anything else, and he may not even manage to finish that job in its entirety.  Even with all the influence and power that POTUS commands, I don't think it's an enviable position to be in right now.



tabzer said:


> I support any attempt to pull back the curtain, regardless of who does it.


Which makes you susceptible to believing a whole lot of nonsense.  Not everything is a conspiracy.  80 million plus Americans truly do hate Trump.  It's as simple as that.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I was referring to the politically active crowd when I said "majority."



I wasn't when I said minority.  We were talking about Americans.



Xzi said:


> Biden is going to be spending the next four years shoveling all the shit Trump left behind out of government. He's not really going to have time for anything else, and he may not even manage to finish that job in its entirety.



Wild speculation you have going on there. 



Xzi said:


> Which makes you susceptible to believing a whole lot of nonsense. Not everything is a conspiracy. 80 million plus Americans truly do hate Trump. It's as simple as that.



I disagree with every point of insinuation here.



Xzi said:


> Even with all the influence and power that POTUS commands, I don't think it's an enviable position to be in right now.



All decisions are pretty much crowd-sourced by all the stockholders.  He just has to play the part--which is already asking too much.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I wasn't when I said minority. We were talking about Americans.


Okay?  Republicans are still the minority even if we add in the politically inactive crowd...because they are also not Republicans.



tabzer said:


> Wild speculation you have going on there.


Not really, Trump left us in a worsening pandemic and a deepening recession.  Biden has no choice but to take care of both of these things before government can return to any minimal baseline standard of functionality.



tabzer said:


> I disagree with every point of insinuation here.


Hey, you're the one who made the statement that you'll believe anybody willing to "pull back the curtain" on any given topic.  The reality of it is that you only actually look for conspiracies when confronted with facts that contradict your feelings and opinions.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I wasn't when I said minority.  We were talking about Americans.
> 
> Wild speculation you have going on there.
> 
> ...



Yeah Yeah Yeah, Stand down proud boy.  That Cheeto Demon left a HUGE mess. Rome wasn't built in a day. But you can BURN it down in one afternoon with enough gas.. It will take more than 1 term to fix this mess.  How embarrassing to be a Trump supporter.  Except they have no common sense and believe their own lies.   I feel somewhat sorry for them. I guess ignorance is bliss though...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> Yeah Yeah Yeah, Stand down proud boy.  That Cheeto Demon left a HUGE mess. Rome wasn't built in a day. But you can BURN it down in one afternoon with enough gas.. It will take more than 1 term to fix this mess.  How embarrassing to be a Trump supporter.  Except they have no common sense and believe their own lies.   I feel somewhat sorry for them. I guess ignorance is bliss though...




What the hell is a mikefor20?




Xzi said:


> Okay? Republicans are still the minority even if we add in the politically inactive crowd...because they are also not Republicans.



Still talking about Americans, though.  I dislike Republicans and Democrats, but sometimes both parties can represent a view that is held by the majority of Americans.  My argument:  the majority of America is probably not going to be happy with a Biden presidency and the lack of closure on "are elections really just a farce?".  It was my assumption by, "smiling" you meant something in alluding to happiness.  Clenching teeth is not the same.



Xzi said:


> Not really, Trump left us in a worsening pandemic and a deepening recession. Biden has no choice but to take care of both of these things before government can return to any minimal baseline standard of functionality.



You have to understand, I'm sarcastic and irreverent to political charades.  You have previously stated that evidence of voter fraud = wild speculation, and here I am suggesting that there is no evidence that Biden will be alive tomorrow.  Please forgive my twisted humor.



Xzi said:


> Hey, you're the one who made the statement that you'll believe anybody willing to "pull back the curtain" on any given topic. The reality of it is that you only actually look for conspiracies when confronted with facts that contradict your feelings and opinions.



I said I'd support anybody pulling the curtain.  Not that I believe in them.  90% of Trumps presidency I was skeptical of him.  %10 of the time I was happy that he said something about fighting the system.  I didn't vote for him.  But he was more entertaining than Obama, who ironically talked about hope.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 12, 2020)

Sicklyboy said:


> Babies aren't allowed in war.


Guess that leaves you out.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> My argument: the majority of America is probably not going to be happy with a Biden presidency and the lack of closure on "are elections really just a farce?". It was my assumption by, "smiling" you meant something in alluding to happiness. Clenching teeth is not the same.


There were literally people dancing and partying in the streets the moment the election was called for Biden.  Do I personally care for the guy?  Not really, but frankly even sticking a dozen chimpanzees on bath salts inside the White House would be a massive improvement over what we've had the last four years.



tabzer said:


> But he was more entertaining than Obama, who ironically talked about hope.


And therein lies the confusion: government isn't meant to be entertaining, it's not reality TV.  The drier and more boring it is, the better the odds that it's working properly.  Not to mention that "entertainment" for Republicans often seems to involve the oppression and discrimination of others.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 12, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Guess that leaves you out.


Oh wow great come back.. please tell us how you are planing to commit treason ..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> There were literally people dancing and partying in the streets the moment the election was called for Biden. Do I personally care for the guy? Not really, but frankly even sticking a dozen chimpanzees on bath salts inside the White House would be an improvement over what we've had the last four years.



People literally dancing and partying in the streets =/= majority of Americans.  I get that makes you high, but the reality gets a little darker every day.



Xzi said:


> And therein lies the confusion: government isn't meant to be entertaining, it's not reality TV.



I'm not confused about it.  The American political system was on the verge of becoming irrelevant.  It needed someone like Trump to boost ratings AKA relevance.



Xzi said:


> The drier and more boring it is, the better the odds that it's working properly.



I'd agree.



Xzi said:


> Not to mention that "entertainment" for Republicans often seems to involve the oppression and discrimination of others.



Not for me, but I don't disagree with the assertion that it happens.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I get that makes you high, but the reality gets a little darker every day.


No offense, but how the hell would you know if you don't live here?  This has been a very dark year, but Trump has been a big contributor to that, so of course people are going to be happy to see a light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how small.



tabzer said:


> I'm not confused about it. The American political system was on the verge of becoming irrelevant. It needed someone like Trump to boost ratings AKA relevance.


----------



## Master X (Dec 12, 2020)

Guess what folks, it's Birther lawsuit time!

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.694824/gov.uscourts.casd.694824.1.0.pdf


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

Master X said:


> Guess what folks, it's Birther lawsuit time!
> 
> https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.694824/gov.uscourts.casd.694824.1.0.pdf


Ah yes.  When all else fails for the Republican party, it's time to fall back on ol' reliable: racism.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> No offense, but how the hell would you know if you don't live here?  This has been a very dark year, but Trump has been a big contributor to that, so of course people are going to be happy to see a light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how small.



*Trump assumes office.*
*Everybody tries to make everything worse.*

"Look what Trump did."

The light at the end of the tunnel occurs when you die.



Xzi said:


>




Nice meme.  Run out of reason?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *Trump assumes office.*
> *Everybody tries to make everything worse.*
> 
> "Look what Trump did."


*Trump assumes office.*
*Fucks everything up.*

Republicans: "look what the deep state did!"  Always an excuse.  Always somebody else to blame.  The buck stops anywhere else, right?



tabzer said:


> The light at the end of the tunnel occurs when you die.


Gee, I can't imagine why such a cheery message didn't resonate with voters.  



tabzer said:


> Nice meme. Run out of reason?


If I did, it certainly wasn't before you did.  TV ratings = relevance for the US government?  C'mon guy, I know you aren't that dumb.  Not to mention you contradicted yourself with the very next reply.  Maybe I just didn't pick up on the sarcasm?  If that's the case then I apologize.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> When all else fails for the Republican party, it's time to fall back on ol' reliable: racism



Anchor babies aren't about race. But lol.  Wonder if it will work.



Xzi said:


> Republicans: "look what the deep state did!" Always an excuse. Always somebody else to blame. The buck stops anywhere else, right?



Everybody wants to blame someone, except the fact that America (inclusive of you) elected Trump.



Xzi said:


> Gee, I can't imagine why such a cheery message didn't resonate with voters.



What?  Please explain.



Xzi said:


> Maybe I just didn't pick up on the sarcasm? If that's the case then I apologize.



It was kind of sarcastic.  But there is an underlying point that American government needs to convince people that it's real.  If esteem regarding the government  weakens then all factions of the government loses standing.  There is truth that ratings are important.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Anchor babies aren't about race. But lol. Wonder if it will work.


Most of Trump's kids are "anchor babies," gotta love the hypocrisy here.  And it'll work about as well as birtherism did the last 2-3 times, aka not at all.



tabzer said:


> Everybody wants to blame someone, except the fact that America (inclusive of you) elected Trump.


I sure as shit didn't vote for him in either election, and he didn't even win the popular vote in 2016.  So no, the whole of America never elected him.



tabzer said:


> What? Please explain.


"There's only a light at the end of the tunnel when you die" is basically nihilism, and it sounds awfully close to, "grandma should die for the economy."  The phrase is a metaphor, but even taken literally, you can go through any tunnel IRL and see the light at the end of it.  Dying is not a requirement for that.



tabzer said:


> There is truth that ratings are important.


Clarify: approval ratings or TV ratings?  The former is only important insofar as getting re-elected is concerned, and that should not be the primary focus of our leaders.  The latter is entirely irrelevant, as we don't elect leaders to liven up C-SPAN, we elect them to lead.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Most of Trump's kids are "anchor babies," gotta love the hypocrisy here. And it'll work about as well as birtherism did the last 2-3 times, aka not at all.



In Trump's case, the father was American, so it deters from the point.  Also, he's not the one proposing the case, so how is it hypocrisy?  Maybe they want to prevent a Trump Jr. presidency?  Who cares.  As I said, it's not racism.




Xzi said:


> I sure as shit didn't vote for him in either election, and he didn't even win the popular vote in 2016. So no, the whole of America never elected him.



If you voted in an election where he won, that means you endorsed, what turned out to be, his election.



Xzi said:


> "There's only a light at the end of the tunnel when you die" is basically nihilism, and it sounds awfully close to, "grandma should die for the economy." The phrase is a metaphor, but even taken literally, you can go through any tunnel IRL and see the light at the end of it. Dying is not a requirement for that.



I can be nihilistic when it comes to politics.  But how was that a party message?



Xzi said:


> Clarify: approval ratings or TV ratings? The former is only important insofar as getting re-elected is concerned, and that should not be the primary focus of our leaders. The latter is entirely irrelevant, as we don't elect leaders to liven up C-SPAN, we elect them to lead.





Xzi said:


> The former is only important insofar as getting re-elected is concerned



False.  The government gets power from the people.  If the people don't believe in it, it loses its power to enforce rule.  Getting people angry or excited about the government reinforces its existence, therefore rule.  TV ratings is a consort.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> As I said, it's not racism.


You're not exactly an authority on the subject...you didn't even recognize it when Trump was being racist toward your own Prime Minister.



tabzer said:


> If you voted in an election where he won, that means you endorsed, what turned out to be, his election.


This makes zero goddamn sense.  You don't endorse elections.  You endorse candidates.



tabzer said:


> I can be nihilistic when it comes to politics. But how was that a party message?


Nihilism seems to be a pretty common symptom of conservatism these days.  It's almost as if putting the entire country through pain and suffering in order to "own the libs" fails to produce lasting happiness.



tabzer said:


> False. The government gets power from the people. If the people don't believe in it, it loses its power to enforce rule.


That's only if the people are prepared and willing to hold government accountable through direct action (strikes, riots, revolutions).  Americans are unlike the French in that way; we're infamously lazy and apathetic.  Which is why even presidents who never break the low 40s in approval rating, like Trump, have no problem retaining office for their full term(s).


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You're not exactly an authority on the subject...you didn't even recognize it when Trump was being racist toward your own Prime Minister.



That is a different subject and an intentional misdirection from the point that was made.  If you think I should take issue about something else, then present it in a forward manner, and then I can respond.



Xzi said:


> This makes zero goddamn sense. You don't endorse elections. You endorse candidates.



It makes zero goddamn sense because you think your only option is to vote for staged elections, and then you fight to defend your action--boasting the situation.



Xzi said:


> Nihilism seems to be a pretty common symptom of conservatism these days. It's almost as if putting the entire country through pain and suffering in order to "own the libs" fails to produce lasting happiness.



Yeah, I don't think so.



Xzi said:


> That's only if the people are prepared and willing to hold government accountable through direct action (strikes, riots, revolutions).



While such actions may actively remove power from the government, or at least shift it, dramatically, it does not make my claim incorrect.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That is a different subject and an intentional misdirection from the point that was made.


Accusing someone of being born outside of the US with no evidence to back the claim aside from the person's skin color is racism.  Period.  The KKK would often use the exact same tactic way back when, so now let's hear your excuse for why the KKK isn't actually racist either.



tabzer said:


> It makes zero goddamn sense because you think your only option is to vote for staged elections


Lmao, so now ALL elections are staged?  I thought Trump winning was proof that an outsider could win despite having zero political experience and zero intelligence?  And no, electoralism is not the only option, I already listed the others.  Strikes, riots, revolutions.



tabzer said:


> Yeah, I don't think so.


So you agree then.  Inflicting misery on others can ultimately only lead to misery for yourself.  Maintaining a mindset of "I have to hurt that other guy, because given the opportunity he would hurt me" is extremely unhealthy in the long-term.



tabzer said:


> While such actions may actively remove power from the government, or at least shift it, dramatically, it does not make my claim incorrect.


I already provided the reason why your claim is incorrect.  A president could have a 1% approval rating, and it would still mean nothing if either the House or the Senate is unwilling to impeach.  Back when the country was much, much smaller, sure, government needed the consent of the governed.  If that was still the case today, we would've already abolished the electoral college.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Accusing someone of being born outside of the US with no evidence to back the claim aside from the person's skin color is racism.



You are being an idiot.  It says in the suit:

"Kamala Devi Harris [Plaintiffs are informed and do verily believe, and based thereon allege that her middle name was originally "Iyer" and changed to "Devi"] (hereinafter referred to as "Harris") is the Defendant in this action in her personal capacity and not in any official capacity, and was born on the 20th day of October, 1964 in Oakland, California."

The suit posits that the definition of "natural born Citizen" hasn't been adjudicated to mean someone who was conveniently given birth to in the US.

This is not a racial matter.  

Again, if you want to talk about racism.  What racist thing did Trump say about the PM?



Xzi said:


> Lmao, so now ALL elections are staged? I thought Trump winning was proof that an outsider could win despite having zero political experience and zero intelligence? And no, electoralism is not the only option, I already listed the others. Strikes, riots, revolutions.



Clinton vs Trump was clearly staged imo.  Trump appealed to those who had hope that the system could be repaired on the inside from an outside person.  Many of his supporters still think he can.

You chose to vote instead of striking, rioting, and embarking on a revolution.  So, I fail to see how or what you are dismissing.



Xzi said:


> So you agree then. Inflicting misery on others can ultimately only lead to misery for yourself. Maintaining a mindset of "I have to hurt that other guy, because given the opportunity he would hurt me" is extremely unhealthy in the long-term.



I just don't think your assessment reflects reality.  I don't think Trump was elected to piss liberals off.  





Xzi said:


> if anything their dissatisfaction puts a smile on the majority of Americans' faces.





Xzi said:


> I already provided the reason why your claim is incorrect. A president could have a 1% approval rating, and it would still mean nothing if either the House or the Senate is unwilling to impeach.



If a president could have 1% approval rating, lets talk about how much the citizens in such an environment are paying in taxes, following the law, joining/supporting the military, not rioting/murdering politicians.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> ”This is not a racial matter.


 Lol this a standard “Dog Whistle”. Your claim that it’s not racism.. your a joke.. racism is alive in USA, when Hispanics are being pulled over and the first thing a cop says is “you SPEAKA the English” and ask if you legal.. when a black guy “randomly” get followed by store security . When An Asian person gets harassed in the park, that you don’t belong .. and every time a “real” American tells a minority to speak English in public .

this is a standard racist attack to claim any minority you don’t like is a fake American.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Lol this a standard “Dog Whistle”. Your claim that it’s not racism.. your a joke.. racism is alive in USA, when Hispanics are being pulled over and the first thing a cop says is “you SPEAKA the English” and ask if you legal.. when a black guy “randomly” get followed by store security . When An Asian person gets harassed in the park, that you don’t belong .. and every time a “real” American tells a minority to speak English in public .
> 
> this is a standard racist attack to claim any minority you don’t like is a fake American.



You are acting like a moron.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.694824/gov.uscourts.casd.694824.1.0.pdf



Xzi said:


> Ah yes.  When all else fails for the Republican party, it's time to fall back on ol' reliable: racism.





Xzi said:


> Accusing someone of being born outside of the US with no evidence to back the claim aside from the person's skin color is racism. Period.





tabzer said:


> You are being an idiot. It says in the suit:
> 
> "Kamala Devi Harris [Plaintiffs are informed and do verily believe, and based thereon allege that her middle name was originally "Iyer" and changed to "Devi"] (hereinafter referred to as "Harris") is the Defendant in this action in her personal capacity and not in any official capacity, and was born on the 20th day of October, 1964 in Oakland, California."
> 
> ...



This is an attempt to discredit her "natural born Citizen" requirement to hold office by relying on a technicality.  Xzi made an assumption about it without even looking it over and chose outrage.  You are following suit.  Nobody is claiming racism doesn't exist in America.  But maybe you should study English a little harder if you are going to try to insult my intelligence.  Something something dog whistle.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 12, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The suit posits that the definition of "natural born Citizen" hasn't been adjudicated to mean someone who was conveniently given birth to in the US.
> 
> This is not a racial matter.


The attack on natural born citizenship has always been racially charged, and it's always been a part of the Southern Strategy.  Any claim to the contrary is just an attempt to gaslight all of us, don't be an idiot by falling for it.



tabzer said:


> Clinton vs Trump was clearly staged imo. Trump appealed to those who had hope that the system could be repaired on the inside from an outside person. Many of his supporters still think he can.


No, Trump appealed to those who base their entire personalities on hatred of the "other."  Nihilists, neo-nazis, and the "alt-right."  His 2016 run was all about fear-mongering over an "immigrant caravan" that never came.



tabzer said:


> You chose to vote instead of striking, rioting, and embarking on a revolution. So, I fail to see how or what you are dismissing.


Incorrect.  I did vote in that election, but I also did plenty of protesting in the years that followed, and I whole-heartedly advocated for revolution during that entire time period as well.  Capitalism has failed us, people are starving to death on the streets of the richest nation on Earth.



tabzer said:


> I just don't think your assessment reflects reality. I don't think Trump was elected to piss liberals off.


He was elected to harm the "right people."  AKA anyone non-white, non-male, and non-Christian.  The Republican party is nothing but a bunch of pathetic racist reactionaries now, and they were all carrying a huge grudge from having a black president preside over them for eight years.

Hell, you should realize what a ridiculous farce it is for a Japanese person to be defending the Republican party.  You'd be chased out of any GOP rally or conference by people yelling at you to take your Wuhan virus back to China.  These people are all a few fries short of a Happy Meal.



tabzer said:


> If a president could have 1% approval rating, lets talk about how much the citizens in such an environment are paying in taxes, following the law, joining/supporting the military, not rioting/murdering politicians.


Say what?  So your solution to governing without the consent of the governed is simply to have the governed get on their knees and submit?  No wonder we can't make real change happen in this country like the French do on a regular basis.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 12, 2020)

Seeing conservatives turn on each other over this is both hilarious and worrying at the same time. 

I have never in my lifetime seen people be this fervently devoted to candidate to the point they actually are willing to call other traitor/deepstate agent because they didn't just give the president a "W" because they wanted him to have it or because Trump himself appointed them and that should give him the "W" automatically.....


----------



## smf (Dec 12, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Irrelevant in the context of smf's assertion. "Being scared" doesn't justify aggression, which was the point.



They only tried to remove his gun from him after he started shooting.
The first person he shot threw a plastic bag at him, he is claiming he was scared and so he shot him.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> This means war.



You already lost.
Why would you want to lose more?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> By the end of it, Rudy's star witness was some drunk homeless lady.



I'm hoping we see more of her.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 12, 2020)

The only way he is getting to 270 now, is with over 200 court cases thrown out.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The attack on natural born citizenship has always been racially charged, and it's always been a part of the Southern Strategy.  Any claim to the contrary is just an attempt to gaslight all of us, don't be an idiot by falling for it.
> 
> 
> No, Trump appealed to those who base their entire personalities on hatred of the "other."  Nihilists, neo-nazis, and the "alt-right."  His 2016 run was all about fear-mongering over an "immigrant caravan" that never came.
> ...



You are nuts dude.  The only people who have taken issue with where I'm from are you and the people gatekeeping here.  You don't admit when you are wrong and you try to make everything about race.   The case is not racist.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are nuts dude.  The only people who have taken issue with where I'm from are you and the people gatekeeping here.  You don't admit when you are wrong and you try to make everything about race.   The case is not racist.


The issue is if you are Asian living in Asia. You would never experience the discrimination minorities face in the US. “It’s a harsher version of Koreans in Japan after WW2 but a lot worse
other Americans that are agreeing with “birther issue” .. usually are people with white privilege.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are nuts dude.  The only people who have taken issue with where I'm from are you and the people gatekeeping here.


So you're living in the US then?  That would certainly explain a lot about why you're so susceptible to conservative propaganda and why you repeat so many conservative talking points verbatim.  If you aren't living here, then of course you wouldn't have experienced that type of discrimination.  Regardless, I can assure you that all Asian cultures and countries are the same in the eyes of a modern conservative.  That's definitely not the case for me.  Japanese folklore and history fascinate me greatly, and given the two nations' history at odds with each other, I'd never dare to confuse a Japanese person for a Chinese person or vice-versa.



tabzer said:


> You don't admit when you are wrong and you try to make everything about race.   The case is not racist.


Then answer me this: where was this same guy to file a case against Trump running for president?  He was the son of first-generation immigrants just as Harris is the daughter of first-generation immigrants.  Conveniently it doesn't seem to be an issue for white (or orange) candidates.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> The issue is if you are Asian living in Asia. You would never experience the discrimination minorities face in the US. “It’s a harsher version of Koreans in Japan after WW2 but a lot worse
> other Americans that are agreeing with “birther issue” .. usually are people with white privilege.


The case is not racist.  That's the point.  Xzi claimed it was based on making up a claim that was patently false.  *Racism existing in America doesn't change what the suit says*.  Your attempt to rationalize your practice of racism "correctly" only looks at my flag and makes assumptions on what kind of life I have lived, only to disenfranchise me from the conversation.  That strawman you are propping looks a lot like you.

If you don't recognize it in yourself then nothing I can do or say will make the decision for you.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

Remember when we were supposed to open up after only two weeks?
Remember when we were supposed to open up when a vaccine came out?

The only way to get back your freedom is to fight.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Hell, you should realize what a ridiculous farce it is for a Japanese person to be defending the Republican party.



Democrats are racist too.  Many of them just think it's a form of righteousness, as demonstrated here.  "I'm going to play on your race you coerce you and ridicule you for supporting the real racists."


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> You already lost.
> Why would you want to lose more?


Only one side has the guns.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Democrats are racist too.  Many of them just think it's a form of righteousness, as demonstrated here.  "I'm going to play on your race you coerce you and ridicule you for supporting the real racists."


There are racist Democrats yes, I'll not deny that.  Racism in the US is systemic in nature.  The difference is that blatant racism doesn't get cheers from the Democratic party, it loses people their positions.  Which is why they have to be far more subtle about it if they're going to be racist at all.

I'm registered as an Independent and I'm just giving the facts to you straight here: you would not be welcome in the Republican party.  Don't feel bad about it though, they exclude anybody who isn't a pale yuppie scumbag.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Remember when we were supposed to open up after only two weeks?
> Remember when we were supposed to open up when a vaccine came out?
> 
> The only way to get back your freedom is to fight.


Remember when idiots ignored those two weeks and did what they wanted included leaders in the US while chanting "muh rights" and was encouraged by the president to "take back their states" despite him and the rest of the conservatives literally doing fuck all to help people?

Remember that we have a second wave that is currently happening, with one day having killed more people in the US than the people that died at 9/11 and the vaccine is limited? 

Remember when countries that actually did as scientist suggested actually got their issue under control and are actually able to enjoy their lives without masks or worrying about the disease to begin with? 

It's almost like you lot enjoy working against yourselves and then complaining that you have to wait even longer. 

You're like a child that is told to stay off their ankle after breaking it, but refusing to do so and wondering why it isn't healing faster.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Remember when we were supposed to open up after only two weeks?
> Remember when we were supposed to open up when a vaccine came out?



Remember how half of the population still refuses to wear masks and/or social distance? Keep on doing what you're doing and it's going to take even longer. This is on you and your fellow "But but but Muh FREEDUM"ers. Had you all done your part we all wouldn't be facing more lockdowns. The two week thing didn't work because half of the population of the USA refused to help make it work.



UltraSUPRA said:


> Only one side has the guns.



Oh, really? Keep living in your own little dream realm.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Only one side has the guns.


There are more than 2 sides in the US as there are multiple political beliefs and if you think any one side doesn't have guns you're quite sadly mistaken.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Remember when idiots ignored those two weeks and did what they wanted included leaders in the US while chanting "muh rights" and was encouraged by the president to "take back their states" despite him and the rest of the conservatives literally doing fuck all to help people?
> 
> Remember that we have a second wave that is currently happening, with one day having killed more people in the US than the people that died at 9/11 and the vaccine is limited?
> 
> ...


Those who will give up liberty for safety deserve neither.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Those who will give up liberty for safety deserve neither.



Sometimes I forget that you're what, 15? Then I read one of your posts and I am instantly reminded.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Sometimes I forget that you're what, 15? Then I read one of your posts and I am instantly reminded.


I take it you can't respond.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Democrats are racist too.  Many of them just think it's a form of righteousness, as demonstrated here.  "I'm going to play on your race you coerce you and ridicule you for supporting the real racists."



Any conservatives or right leaning people on this forum mentioned your race before? Or is it just the tolerant left, the liberals who are always asking about your race, almost like they're racist. Crazy isn't it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Any conservatives or right leaning people on this forum mentioned your race before? Or is it just the tolerant left, the liberals who are always asking about your race, almost like they're racist. Crazy isn't it.



They are are applying nationality politics and it bleeds into racial stereotyping if they don't like what I say.  I can't say a case is not racist, because the case is supported by a Republican.  It's only okay for people to be racist if they are insidious about it, as Xzi says.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Any conservatives or right leaning people on this forum mentioned your race before? Or is it just the tolerant left, the liberals who are always asking about your race, almost like they're racist. Crazy isn't it.


Oh so simply mentioning race is racism now?  And here I thought it was supposed to be liberals who were the most touchy about that.  

What are you, some sort of snowflake? /s


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I take it you can't respond.



What are you even talking about? You don't even make sense over half of the time you post & this is another of those times. Respond? You didn't even ask a question, what am I supposed to be responding to? You made a statement and I did actually respond to that. So..... Yeah.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Oh so simply mentioning race is racism now?  And here I thought it was supposed to be liberals who were the most touchy about that.
> 
> What are you, some sort of snowflake? /s



Why you mentioning his race in the first place? Why is it always liberals talking about race LOL who cares what his damn race is, it's not the subject of the topic. Grow up.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Why you mentioning his race in the first place? Why is it always liberals talking about race LOL who cares what his damn race is, it's not the subject of the topic. Grow up.


Are you fucking serious?  After two campaigns and four years worth of race-based fearmongering?  Shit, you probably voted for BoJo the clown out of fear of brown people immigrating to your own country.  Cutting off the nose to spite the face.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Are you fucking serious?  After two campaigns and four years worth of race-based fearmongering?


Examples?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Are you fucking serious?  After two campaigns and four years worth of race-based fearmongering?  Shit, you probably voted for BoJo the clown out of fear of brown people immigrating to your own country.  Cutting off the nose to spite the face.



You still have yet to tell me what racist thing Trump said about the PM.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Examples?


No.  You've seen, heard, and read thousands of examples over the last four years.  This is not a request made in good faith.



tabzer said:


> You still have yet to tell me what racist thing Trump said about the PM.


https://www.scmp.com/news/world/uni...d-trump-fakes-accent-mock-leaders-south-korea


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Examples?


Hey let know let know when you start your race war!


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Are you fucking serious?  After two campaigns and four years worth of race-based fearmongering?  Shit, you probably voted for BoJo the clown out of fear of brown people immigrating to your own country.  Cutting off the nose to spite the face.



Fuck are you even talking about. What's Boris Johnson got to do with Tabzers race? You muppet. Stick to one topic, which is your president. It has nothing to do with race at all. So for once in your life try and stop being a race baiting piece of shit. But you're right, after 4 years of lefties like yourself constantly badgering on about race It's time to give it a rest.

And for the record I did vote for BoJo  I can vote for anybody I like, my reasons are my own. I don't need to explain anything to you. Thanks for trying though.




Xzi said:


> No.  You've seen, heard, and read thousands of examples over the last four years.  This is not a request made in good faith.
> 
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/world/uni...d-trump-fakes-accent-mock-leaders-south-korea



Zero evidence on this link as per. No video whatsoever, no proof he ever mocked anyone, just the usual racial stirring from racists.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> No.  You've seen, heard, and read thousands of examples over the last four years.  This is not a request made in good faith.


I just got into politics at the beginning of the year.


Xzi said:


> https://www.scmp.com/news/world/uni...d-trump-fakes-accent-mock-leaders-south-korea


>South *China* Morning Post


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you don't recognize it in yourself then nothing I can do or say will make the decision for you.


Yup.. It’s so sad to see your argument wither away..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yup.. It’s so sad to see your argument wither away..



Maybe it would still be intact if you quoted the whole post.  Distancing yourself from the facts doesn't change the facts.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I just got into politics at the beginning of the year.
> 
> >South *China* Morning Post


Oh that soo cute you just got potty trained this year ... somebody deserved a lollipop.. you a special kids of bunker kid Aint you


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Stick to one topic


Why should I dumb things down just because you've got the attention span and memory of a goldfish?  The rest of us are able to follow the conversation without issue.



shamzie said:


> It has nothing to do with race at all.


The discussion had shifted to a "birtherism" lawsuit directed at Kamala Harris.  Your attempts to gaslight us all and suggest it has "nothing to do with race" aren't going to go over any better than Tabzer's attempts did.



UltraSUPRA said:


> >South *China* Morning Post


Naturally that's far from the only source on that particular story, it's just the first one that happened to come up on Google.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> They only tried to remove his gun from him after he started shooting.
> The first person he shot threw a plastic bag at him, he is claiming he was scared and so he shot him.


Rosenbaum started chasing Kyle across the parking lot before he threw the object at him. It's also fairly unwise to throw anything at someone in the dark. Regardless, Rittenhouse was actively trying to avoid the three and did not shoot until he was charged. By that point the situation has already fulfilled the legal definition of a simple assault.


> *Simple assault* involves an intentional act that causes another person to be in reasonable fear of an imminent battery. *Simple assault* may also involve an attempt to cause harm to another person, where that attempt does not succeed.


The court will decide who was in the right in this case.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Your attempts to gaslight us all and suggest it has "nothing to do with race" aren't going to go over any better than Tabzer's attempts did.



Read the suit.  Quote the racist part.

You are flailing around in every possible direction possible.  You made up a fake fact to delegitimize the suit on the grounds of it being racist.  Be accountable and stop making your (and others') racism more important.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Maybe it would still be intact if you quoted the whole post.  Distancing yourself from the facts doesn't change the facts.


.. maybe if you stated any facts, it be worth my while but.. it is sad too see you get deeper in garbage conspiracy theories and refused to acknowledge reality, maybe it’s because you claim to be in asia but.. who knows


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Read the suit.  Quote the racist part.
> 
> You are flailing around in every possible direction possible.  You made up a fake fact to delegitimize the suit on the grounds of it being racist.  Be accountable and stop making your (and others') racism more important.


 The fact you claim not to be in the USA would explained why you are naive to the type of racism in the US but that might be giving you to much credit..

*Snip*[/QUOTE]
 Lol you are proof on why some people shouldn’t procreate ..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> The issue is if you are Asian living in Asia. You would never experience the discrimination minorities face in the US. “It’s a harsher version of Koreans in Japan after WW2 but a lot worse
> other Americans that are agreeing with “birther issue” .. usually are people with white privilege.


The case is not racist.  That's the point.  Xzi claimed it was based on making up a claim that was patently false.  *Racism existing in America doesn't change what the suit says*.  Your attempt to rationalize your practice of racism "correctly" only looks at my flag and makes assumptions on what kind of life I have lived, only to disenfranchise me from the conversation.  That strawman you are propping looks a lot like you.

If you don't recognize it in yourself then nothing I can do or say will make the decision for you.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 13, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Zero evidence on this link as per. No video whatsoever, no proof he ever mocked anyone, just the usual racial stirring from racists.



There may not be proof of that specific incident, yet. But there are videos out there of Trump mocking many people including Indians and Asians. No reason for me to think this most recent one isn't factual.



UltraSUPRA said:


> I just got into politics at the beginning of the year.



Yes. We can tell.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The case is not racist.  That's the point.  Xzi claimed it was based on making up a claim that was patently false.  *Racism existing in America doesn't change what the suit says*.  Your attempt to rationalize your practice of racism "correctly" only looks at my flag and makes assumptions on what kind of life I have lived, only to disenfranchise me from the conversation.  That strawman you are propping looks a lot like you.
> 
> If you don't recognize it in yourself then nothing I can do or say will make the decision for you.


OMG HOLY SH!t, I think I broke to bot, he double posting .. at least it explain why it was talking nonsense, baka


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> OMG HOLY SH!t, I think I broke to bot, he double posting .. at least it explain why it was talking nonsense, baka


"all Trump supporters are Russian bots because they didn't fall for the blatant Chinese propoganda"


----------



## wartutor (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The case is not racist.  That's the point.  Xzi claimed it was based on making up a claim that was patently false.  *Racism existing in America doesn't change what the suit says*.  Your attempt to rationalize your practice of racism "correctly" only looks at my flag and makes assumptions on what kind of life I have lived, only to disenfranchise me from the conversation.  That strawman you are propping looks a lot like you.
> 
> If you don't recognize it in yourself then nothing I can do or say will make the decision for you.


You can keep repeating it all you want they will never see how racist it is to say shit like "your black," "your Asian," or "your (insert racial stereotype here" so you have to think this way and if you dont you are wrong. Waist of time trying to get them to see that. THEY WILL NEVER SEE PAST THEIR OWN SELF ADMINISTERED, OVER IMPORTANCE. Thinking they are goin to change the world no matter whos rights they stomp on the way.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

"Doesn't look like anything to me".


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Read the suit. Quote the racist part.


The racist part is the filing of the suit at all, how are you not understanding this?  Such a lawsuit has never been filed against a white candidate and never will be, despite any number of white candidates being the children of first-generation immigrants.  The history of accusing people of being "illegitimate Americans" is the history of the KKK and the Southern Strategy.

If you're willing to take the filing at face value and believe every word without a second thought, there's obviously nothing I can do to convince you.  It's essentially the equivalent of believing a guy who just shouted the N-word when he says, "I can't be racist, I have a black friend."  If you really want to debase yourself by continuing to play the role of easily-fooled rube, so be it.  Matter of fact: while you're still in character, I have some oceanfront property in Colorado to sell, interested?


----------



## wartutor (Dec 13, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> There may not be proof of that specific incident, yet. But there are videos out there of Trump mocking many people including Indians and Asians. No reason for me to think this most recent one isn't factual.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. We can tell.


And yet biden has never said a racial thing in his life


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The racist part is the filing of the suit at all, how are you not understanding this?



Seems to be politically motivated.  I could be wrong, though.  But I'm not talking about intentions.



Xzi said:


> The racist part is the filing of the suit at all, how are you not understanding this? Such a lawsuit has never been filed against a white candidate and never will be, despite any number of white candidates being the children of first-generation immigrants.



Awe, that's closed minded.



Xzi said:


> If you're willing to take the filing at face value and believe every word


You said:



Xzi said:


> Accusing someone of being born outside of the US with no evidence to back the claim aside from the person's skin color is racism. Period.




I quoted the suit, specifically the part that acknowledges that Harris was born in the USA--meaning that you went off the rails and clearly had no idea what you were talking about.

I repeated what it said.   I never gave an opinion if I think it is a good case, or a bad case, or if I agree with it.  I didn't make a conclusion on the intention of the person behind it.  You did, without proof.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "all Trump supporters are Russian bots because they didn't fall for the blatant Chinese propoganda"


Yes .. and  sexually repressed 15 year olds hint hint


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

wartutor said:


> And yet biden has never said a racial thing in his life


Nobody claimed that.  Biden has said and done plenty of racist things.  Just one more reason why presidents are meant to be criticized and held accountable for their words and actions, not worshipped as cult leaders.



tabzer said:


> Seems to be politically motivated.


It's both politically and racially motivated.  If she hadn't reached such a high position as a person of color, the suit never would've been filed.  There was no such lawsuit filed when she was elected Senator, after all.



tabzer said:


> I quoted the suit, specifically the part that acknowledges that Harris was born in the USA


Yes I understand that, we're way past that point.  It's still a racially charged accusation to say she's an "illegitimate American" just because her parents are first-generation immigrants, and again, her skin color is obviously a factor or the same suit would've been filed against Trump in 2016, along with any number of past presidents.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yes I understand that, we're way past that point.  It's still a racially charged accusation to say she's an "illegitimate American" just because her parents are first-generation immigrants, and again, her skin color is obviously a factor or the same suit would've been filed against Trump in 2016, along with any number of past presidents.


Were Kamala's parents registered citizens before she was born?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Were Kamala's parents registered citizens before she was born?


I have no idea, and it doesn't matter in the least.  The constitution specifies that if you're born in the US, you're a US citizen.

Y'all are killing me here BTW, I really dislike Copmala for the things she did as California's AG, so I don't enjoy being put in the position of having to defend her.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Were Kamala's parents registered citizens before she was born?


Oh god.. your racism makes Baby jesus cry..


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 13, 2020)

Yet another Trump appointee, the Honorable Judge Brett Ludwig, has dismissed another Trump lawsuit:
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1337836012853211136


> WE HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!
> 
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 12, 2020





> “*We’re not finished*,” Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani said Friday. *“Believe me.*”


1-59?  
*1-60? * 
*1-70?*


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yes I understand that, we're way past that point.



Speak for yourself.  You made a conclusion before reading the case and you are doing everything that you can to make the case fit your conclusion. 

"Neither the Mother of Harris nor the Father of Harris (hereinafter collectively referred to as the "Parents of Harris") were citizens of the United States when Harris was born."

"However, the meaning of the words "natural born Citizen" has never been adjudicated by the U.S. Supreme Court. As a result, there are persons that have sought to redefine the eligibility requirements for their own purposes. It has gone on not only in this presidential election but in the three previous elections."

"The voices of Plaintiffs, and each of them, criticizing Harris on this issue have been met with charges of racism and conspiracy, rather than any attempt to address the actual issue, accompanied by significant threats of violence."

Looks like you are referenced in this case as well Xzi.


----------



## Master X (Dec 13, 2020)

Well, Trump is now... 1-58, I think? 59 maybe? So much winning, huh?

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electi...sin-would-be-like-brown-v-board-of-education/ (Case background)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...own-a-scalding-decision-in-extraordinary-case (The slapdown)

The background has some hilarious tidbits, such as... Election fraud not being necessary to declare election results void.

Seems to be the same story, no matter the state. "The elections were fraudulent! Declare them void! What, prove fraud? We don't have to prove that fraud happened for a election to be fraudulent! Whaa whaa whaa, Rigged!"


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "The voices of Plaintiffs, and each of them, criticizing Harris on this issue have been met with charges of racism and conspiracy, rather than any attempt to address the actual issue, accompanied by significant threats of violence."


You wouldn't be surprised by this if you hadn't glossed over me telling you, *multiple times*, that the history of such accusations is the history of the KKK and the Southern Strategy.  Of course people are touchy about this shit, Jesus.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You wouldn't be surprised by this if you hadn't glossed over me telling you, multiple times, that the history of such accusations is the history of the KKK and the Southern Strategy.  Of course people are touchy about this shit, Jesus.



I'm not surprised at all.  Just because racism exists and is a touchy subject doesn't make it an argument on the presented issue.  Even worse, is your position and justification of insidious racism.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm not surprised at all.  Just because racism exists and is a touchy subject doesn't make it an argument on the presented issue.  Even worse, is your position and justification of insidious racism.


But the whole case is based on racist intent. If Kamala parent were white European, this would not been a issue at all.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm not surprised at all. Just because racism exists and is a touchy subject doesn't make it an argument on the presented issue.


"Just because they're using the same accusations and tactics as the KKK doesn't mean racism is involved!"  Remember what I said before about playing dumb?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> But the whole case is based on racist intent. If Kamala parent were white European, this would not been a issue at all.



The intent maybe racist.  AFAIK Democrats and Republicans only disagree on how to be racist.  The case will probably be shut down on the basis of being frivolous, but it won't be shutdown because of "racism".




Xzi said:


> "Just because they're using the same accusations and tactics as the KKK doesn't mean racism is involved!" Remember what I said before about playing dumb?





Xzi said:


> we're way past that point


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The intent maybe racist.  AFAIK Democrats and Republicans only disagree on how to be racist.  The case will probably be shut down on the basis of being frivolous, but it won't be shutdown because of "racism".
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


oh so your not blind that it’s racist motive .. it’s just that you don’t care.. got it


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The intent maybe racist. AFAIK Democrats and Republicans only disagree on how to be racist. The case will probably be shut down on the basis of being frivolous, but it won't be shutdown because of "racism".


They'll simply decline to hear the case, as they've declined to hear similar cases in the past.  SCOTUS doesn't rule on intent.



tabzer said:


> We're way past that point


I was referring to the accusation that she's an "illegitimate American" because of where her parents were born.  That's no less racist than suggesting she's illegitimate because of where she herself was born, and the history of attacking natural born citizenship is no less steeped in racism either.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh so your not blind that it’s racist motive .. it’s just that you don’t care.. got it



If you can see inside the person's head, then I'd be willing to listen to you.  But you can't see inside my head, so why give you a platform?  What you say might be more meaningful if you weren't the one spouting off racist rhetoric.




Xzi said:


> SCOTUS doesn't rule on intent.



*clap clap clap*



Xzi said:


> I was referring to the accusation that she's an "illegitimate American" because of where her parents were born. That's no less racist than suggesting she's illegitimate because of where she herself was born.



Well, there you go, misrepresenting the actual case again, imbued with your own "superior" brand of racism.

Is there a line between nationality and race?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you can see inside the person's head, then I'd be willing to listen to you.  But you can't see inside my head, so why give you a platform?  What you say might be more meaningful if you weren't the one spouting off racist rhetoric.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I understand...Racism does not bother you .. yup got it


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> No I understand...Racism does not bother you .. yup got it


Not when it comes from a hypocrite that has no position over my life.

Well that was directed specifically at you.  Of course racism is troubling issue


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *clap clap clap*


Don't start clapping yet, I never said it wasn't easy for the rest of us to determine their intent with this case.  Their motives are thinly-veiled at best, as is typical of lawsuits filed by partisan hacks.



tabzer said:


> Well, there you go, misrepresenting the actual case again


How is that a misrepresentation?  This lawsuit was filed in response specifically to Kamala Harris being elected VP.  Even if an attack on natural born citizenship was filed outside of the political realm, and without naming any specific candidate, it would still have some obvious racial overtones attached.  But they *did* choose to name her and make it far more personal than it needed to be, and they are accusing her citizenship of being illegitimate because of where her parents were born.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> they are accusing her citizenship of being illegitimate because of where her parents were born



No they aren't.  They are saying, specifically, that they were not American citizens when she was born.  If you want to make an argument that any foreign national should be able to become VP, I won't argue against it.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No they aren't.  They are saying, specifically, that they were not American citizens when she was born.  If you want to make an argument that any foreign national should be able to become VP, I won't argue against it.


 see now your making sense .. you saying she not a real American because she not white European .. you should of said that from the start silly


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

djpannda said:


> see now your making sense .. you saying she not a real American because she not white European .. you should of said that from the start silly


You still fail in demonstrating cognition.  Try again.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No they aren't. They are saying, specifically, that they were not American citizens when she was born.


Right, and the constitution makes no distinctions in that regard.  You're born here, you're a US citizen.  End of story.  It doesn't matter who your parents are, where they come from, or where they maintain their citizenship at the time of birth.  The accusation of illegitimacy is being levied at Harris because of her position, her political affiliation, and her skin color.  There's no other reason for singling her out, or naming any one specific defendant in this case at all for that matter.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> You're born here, you're a US citizen. End of story.



That may very well be the basis of the judgement.



Xzi said:


> The accusation of illegitimacy is being levied at Harris because of her position, her political affiliation, and her skin color. There's no other reason for singling her out, or naming any one specific defendant in this case at all.



Those are three reasons you see.  The primary one is the one being cited in the case.  Position--VP.

If Biden's situation was contentious for the reasons provided in the suit, I'm sure he'd be a target as well, so I tend to agree with political affiliation.

Skin color is something you want to cling onto even if is truly beside the point.

The case is just another in a trend of seemingly frivolous suits that appear to be a series of poke testing the legal system for any form of exploits or holes.


----------



## KageNinja (Dec 13, 2020)

According to BLM the statement "All Lives Matter" is racist.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 13, 2020)

Birthers sighting in Washington DC:




> "Destroy the GOP!"
> "Destroy the GOP!"
> "Destroy the GOP!"



@0:48, watch the mindless sheeple boo Loeffler and Perdue after they're misleadingly described as RINOS.

*Fact check*: How often do Loeffler and Perdue vote along Trump's position?

David Perdue (R) *94.1%*
Mitch McConnell (R) *93.5%*
Kelly Loeffler (R) *91.7% *
Lindsey Graham (R) *87.3%*
Lisa Murkowski (R)* 74.2% * 
Rand Paul (R) *70.4%* 
Susan M. Collins (R)* 66.4%*

Citation: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

If Biden fell under the same contention, and was not listed in the same suit--it would lend evidence that Kamilla is being targeted because of her gender/color.  But these aspects are so far removed from the claim itself that it looks ridiculous to insert "racism" as the issue of contention.  The way forward is to adjudicate the term "natural-born citizen" to mean what you want it to mean, and be done with it.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If Biden fell under the same contention, and was not listed in the same suit--it would lend evidence that Kamilla is being targeted because of her gender/color. But these aspects are so far removed from the claim itself that it looks ridiculous to insert "racism" as the issue of contention.


IIRC at least one of Trump's parents was not a US citizen at the time of his birth.  And again, no such lawsuit was filed (by anybody, Republican or Democrat) when he was elected.  The same was true of any number of past presidents who had one or more foreign citizens as parents.

There's also a slippery slope argument to be made here.  If immigration in your family's history disqualifies you from holding public office, only Native Americans should legally be eligible to run.


----------



## Joe88 (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> IIRC at least one of Trump's parents was not a US citizen at the time of his birth.


His mother became a us citizen in '42, trump was born in '46


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> There's also a slippery slope argument to be made here. If immigration in your family's history disqualifies you from holding public office, only Native Americans should legally be eligible to run.



Like I said.  Adjudicate what the definition of "natural born citizen" means.

But if Trump fit the contention and a charge was not brought against him by the Democrats, I'd find it to be ironic considering every other thing that was thrown at him.

But still, nothing about the suit is about racism.  You are just dissatisfied with a negative potential outcome hanging out there (doubtful).  The reaction to shout, "racism!" is a defense mechanism.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> But if Trump fit the contention and a charge was not brought against him by the Democrats, I'd find it to be ironic considering every other thing that was thrown at him.


The only things Democrats threw at him were consequences for his own actions, and much of the time they failed to do even that.  He 100% deserved to be impeached, but I don't think the reasoning behind it was nearly as sound as it could have been.



tabzer said:


> But still, nothing about the suit is about racism. You are just dissatisfied with a negative potential outcome hanging out there (doubtful).


Lol no, I told you SCOTUS would decline to hear Texas' attempt to overturn the election, and I know they'll decline to hear this case too.  That doesn't make the filing of the suit itself, or the singling out of the first POC vice president, any less disgustingly racist.



Joe88 said:


> His mother became a us citizen in '42, trump was born in '46


Ah, guess I was mistaken.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The only things Democrats threw at him were consequences for his own actions, and much of the time they failed to do even that. He 100% deserved to be impeached, but I don't think the reasoning behind it was nearly as sound as it could have been.



Steele Dossier and bait after bait of trying to get him to do something impeachable.  Totally disingenuous.  



Xzi said:


> Lol no, I told you SCOTUS would decline to hear Texas' attempt to overturn the election, and I know they'll decline to hear this case too. That doesn't make the filing of the suit itself, or the singling out of the first POC vice president, any less disgustingly racist.



You were right about SCOTUS declining to hear the TX suit.  I think you are right about them dismissing this case too.

"The natural-born-citizen clause has been mentioned in passing in several decisions of the United States Supreme Court, and by some lower courts that have addressed eligibility challenges, but the Supreme Court has never directly addressed the question of a specific presidential or vice-presidential candidate's eligibility as a natural-born citizen. Many eligibility lawsuits from the 2008, 2012, and 2016 election cycles were dismissed in lower courts due to the challengers' difficulty in showing that they had standing to raise legal objections. Additionally, some experts have suggested that the precise meaning of the natural-born-citizen clause may never be decided by the courts because, in the end, presidential eligibility may be determined to be a non-justiciable political question that can be decided only by Congress rather than by the judicial branch of government" 

This is nothing new.  And it isn't because Kamilla Harris is brown.  Virtue signaling could look good on you if you didn't promote racism as being okay if done insidiously.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Steele Dossier and bait after bait of trying to get him to do something impeachable. Totally disingenuous.


Rofl, disingenuous he says...knowing full well the Steele dossier had nothing to do with impeachment and was partially funded by Trump's Republican opponents during the primary.



tabzer said:


> This is nothing new. And it isn't because Kamilla Harris is brown.


Yeah I'm sure it's just coincidence, just like it was coincidence the first black president had to deal with birtherism, but the 43 white presidents to precede him didn't.  Keep those blinders on.



tabzer said:


> Virtue signaling could look good on you if you didn't promote racism as being okay if done insidiously.


No idea what you mean by this.  I'm racist toward the Republican party for accusing them of racism I guess?  Sure, let's go with that.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The only things Democrats threw at him were consequences for his own actions



Conveniently leaving out Democrats' involvement in the production of the Steele Dossier.   Pretending it had nothing to do with launching an investigation in order to phishing and bait for impeachable offenses.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/six-examples-obama-administration-spying-trump-cam/

Can't forget spygate.

To pretend that Democrats represent the righteous side of justice is totally laughable.  It's a sad time to associate with any party these days.



Xzi said:


> Yeah I'm sure it's just coincidence, just like it was coincidence the first black president had to deal with birtherism, but the 43 white presidents to precede him didn't. Keep those blinders on.



If you could present the case of "birtherism"  as a court document, I'll lend my eyes and tell you if a court document is racist.  AFAIK people believed that Obama was not a natural born US citizen or he was from Kenya.  Sure there is all kinds of racism and stereotyping tossed in with that, but then you are talking about people not legal motions. 



Xzi said:


> Racism in the US is systemic in nature. The difference is that blatant racism doesn't get cheers from the Democratic party, it loses people their positions. Which is why they have to be far more subtle about it if they're going to be racist at all.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Conveniently leaving out Democrats' involvement in the production of the Steele Dossier.


I said "partially funded" by his Republican opponents for a reason, obviously I wasn't denying Democrats later funded it as well.  Again, disingenuous.

Not to mention: and oh boy you're sure gonna hate this part, but much of the Steele dossier has been proven true or corroborated by other sources, and so far not a single bit of it has been verified as false.  Unsurprisingly, opposition research funded by both parties tends to be pretty solid.

https://www.businessinsider.com/steele-dossier-allegations-trump-russia-mueller-investigation-2019-1

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective



tabzer said:


> AFAIK people believed that Obama was not a natural born US citizen or he was from Kenya.


And why, pray tell, did they believe that without a second thought?  Because there were libraries full of evidence backing the accusation?  Or because they're Republicans and his skin is black?


----------



## Master X (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/aug/20/six-examples-obama-administration-spying-trump-cam/
> 
> Can't forget spygate.



For the 'Six examples', the majority of that was covered here was denied by Michael Horowitz (A Trump appointee) in his report on Crossfire Hurricane. The general gist was that the investigation wasn't pushed for political reasons. Considering how questionable WT is though, I'm not surprised that they ignored these findings.

https://www.justsecurity.org/67691/the-crossfire-hurricane-reports-inconvenient-findings/



> It’s worth emphasizing, though, that the picture Horowitz paints remains fundamentally at odds with claims that FBI or DOJ leadership conspired to mislead the FISA Court, plotting to use surveillance of a peripheral campaign advisor as the linchpin of some Rube Goldbergian scheme to undermine the Trump Administration.





> This picture is, in its own way, and for very different reasons, as disturbing as the image of a Deep State cabal with a vendetta against Trump: Vendettas are at least specific.  Whereas the grave defects in the surveillance of Page seem more likely to be symptoms of a more apolitical, and therefore more systemic, form of bias. Their underlying causes—reliance on sources whose claims are hard to directly check, imperfect information, case agents making judgments about which facts in a vast sea of data might be legally material—aren’t peculiar to elections but endemic to intelligence.



tl:dr - Stereotypically inept government agency has a glue drinking contest.

Trump, of course, disagreed with the findings. But then again, see how he's disagreeing with... Well, everything right about now. He simply cannot admit defeat, and whenever he loses... Well, it's obviously a massive conspiracy against him. A conspiracy so deep, that even his own party has turned on him!

I've know of a saying that seems to fit Trump. If you spend all day running into assholes, maybe you're the asshole.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The only things Democrats threw at him were consequences for his own actions



Again.  This statement is disingenuous.  Trump brought out the despicable side of politicians on both sides of the table.  Democrats were not righteous in his term--or before his term.



Xzi said:


> And why, pray tell, did they believe that without a second thought? Because there were libraries full of evidence backing the accusation?



People still believe he isn't a US born American and that he was a Manchurian candidate because his history is strange/veiled/peculiar, atypical of American people--White or PoC.

Also, more evidence in this video that his birth certificate is a forgery than your allegation that suspicion of him was solely established on racism:



People will be racist, too.  It's too bad racism is more important to you than trying to be understanding.




Master X said:


> https://www.justsecurity.org/67691/the-crossfire-hurricane-reports-inconvenient-findings/



I know WT leans right and is considered invalid by people here just because of that, but can you post a Left/Centrist source that isn't 10 months older than the one I provided?

I don't know Trump personally to comment on his character.  I've noticed what a lot of media tries to harbor a lot of negative feelings towards him, to the point where they distort context and misquote what he says.  If he was really just a horrible person, then they wouldn't need to do that.  But right off the bat, people claimed Trump called every single Mexican a rapist.  That put me off from just blindly drinking that kool-aid.  There are rapists crossing the border, and they are coming in through Mexico.  That was a fact.  It's possible that he phrases things like that so it's interpretable both ways, but the media tends to only want to cling to the racism bit when his whole life, up to that point, doesn't paint that picture.  Joe Biden, tends to, verifiably, be every evil characteristic that was assumed about Trump.  Is Trump not evil?  I don't know.

But it's like Democrats convinced their base that Trump is all kinds of evil, and gets them to accept the fact that someone like that can be in office.  Then they put in one of their own.


----------



## Izual Urashima (Dec 13, 2020)

The "funny" thing in all that is the heavy double standard that is thrown here.

On Biden's side, any news is considered as fact (including the fact he is president, to the point White House officials had to make a statement about it, but it has already been covered to hell and beyond everywhere) without actual fact-checking by the medias who are supposed to do so, including big names. On Trump's side, any news is considered as fake news (including some things that has been confirmed thus far by official sources) by the same media.

Oh well. More drama and salt to add to the pile, more coffee for me to drink while I'll watch your world burn.


----------



## Master X (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I know WT leans right and is considered invalid by people here just because of that, but can you post a Left/Centrist source that isn't 10 months older than the one I provided?



I was referring to WT's habitual failing of fact checks, rather than their political leanings.

And what, exactly, is the issue with the age of my source? The events that your source is trying to bring back up were all events that were addressed in the investigation into Crossfire Hurricane, which had its results released last year. My source was referring to the report over that investigation.

That reports conclusion, which WT (Which is a example of why they're not exactly the most accurate of news sources) decided to ignore? The investigations weren't politically charged, but were yet another example of a government agency being inept.

In WT's defense though, they might not have known about this report...I guess it's a simple case of WT being inept, as usual, rather than any sort of political agenda.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Rosenbaum started chasing Kyle across the parking lot before he threw the object at him. It's also fairly unwise to throw anything at someone in the dark. Regardless, Rittenhouse was actively trying to avoid the three and did not shoot until he was charged. By that point the situation has already fulfilled the legal definition of a simple assault.



Because simple assault has the death penalty?



UltraSUPRA said:


> Only one side has the guns.



And the other side can order drone strikes.

There will not be a civil war to overturn a legitimate election just to keep a criminal in the white house for four more years


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Because simple assault has the death penalty?


This has already been explored earlier in the thread.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I have no idea, and it doesn't matter in the least.  The constitution specifies that if you're born in the US, you're a US citizen.



I think you shouldn't be a US citizen if you can trace back your ancestors to someone who wasn't a US citizen.
Send everyone back to their ancestral home.


----------



## Scarlet (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> I think you shouldn't be a US citizen if you can trace back your ancestors to someone who wasn't a US citizen.
> Send everyone back to their ancestral home.


surely that means nobody in the US would be eligible to vote, since they're all just traitors to the crown if you trace them back far enough?

actually i like this system, let's run with that


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Scarlet said:


> surely that means nobody in the US would be eligible to vote, since they're all just traitors to the crown if you trace them back far enough?
> 
> actually i like this system, let's run with that



You can trace everyone back to Africa

Start the repatriation flights, Trump gets to go first.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

Scarlet said:


> surely that means nobody in the US would be eligible to vote, since they're all just traitors to the crown if you trace them back far enough?
> 
> actually i like this system, let's run with that


I propose that the President should be picked by means of a hot dog eating contest. There's nothing more American than competitive eating (yes, it's a sport, and yes, it's very entertaining).


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> I think you shouldn't be a US citizen if you can trace back your ancestors to someone who wasn't a US citizen.
> Send everyone back to their ancestral home.


heh if only we could do that here!


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> You can trace everyone back to Africa


The "Out of Africa" theory is somewhat outdated, fossil records show that our species has existed outside of that continent for around 200,000 years.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2...rica-sheds-light-behavior-early-homo-sapiens/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-out-of-africa-theory-out/

Still the prevailing theory, to be fair, but there's strong evidence that it's actually incorrect. Asia is a likely second candidate for the origin of our species.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> heh if only we could do that here!



Where is "here"? Do you live in the sea?



Foxi4 said:


> The "Out of Africa" theory is somewhat outdated, fossil records show that our species has existed outside of that continent



God put those fossils there to fool you. I'm sure if you go back through the family tree of everyone alive then you'll find Africa. Go further back and you'll end up in the sea.

We should send countries back to where they came from too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondwana

Seriously, it's not that Out of Africa is outdated but that there are opposing theories and the evidence can be made to fit either. For example, maybe there was an earlier migration out of africa.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Where is "here"? Do you live in the sea?


can't you read a flag?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> God put those fossils there to fool you.


Can't refute that - makes sense. :V


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> can't you read a flag?



What's wrong with New Zealand?


----------



## g00s3y (Dec 13, 2020)

BREAKING NEWS:

Trump supporters still IDIOTS!
Trump still a LOSER!
Biden will still be President!


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> There seems to be a lot of debate still, it doesn't seem to be settled science.
> 
> We should send countries back to where they came from too.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondwana


Based on modern evidence, the most likely scenario is that "proto-humans" began their journey in East Asia, started migrating west, evolved as they went and ultimately settled in Eastern Europe and Africa. There's notable evidence of this being the case in Morocco, Greece, Germany and many other countries, predating the "Out of Africa" timeline by tens of thousands of years, often more - we don't *really* know how the species spread across the globe just yet, there are many possible scenarios.

As for putting countries back where they belong, I think you're not dreaming big enough - I'm in favour of putting at least a couple back under the sea. I don't know how, I'm not an engineer or a geologist, but I strongly believe we'll find a way eventually. If we only pollute hard enough and melt the ice caps some more, my dream can be fully realised. I won't be able to enjoy the fruits of this labour of love, but I like to think that my descendants will live in a world without California. Brings a tear to my eye, always dare to dream.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> but I like to think that my descendants will live in a world without California. Brings a tear to my eye, always dare to dream.



We can send your descendants back into the big bang where they belong.

Is it california you want to eradicate or the people of california. If you get rid of california then the people there will just move next to you

If it's the people then you are xenophobic/racist. You want to pick and choose which people deserve to have what they want and who should have that taken away from them.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> We can send your descendants back into the big bang where they belong.
> 
> Anything less is racism. You want to pick and choose which people deserve to have what they want and who should have that taken away from them.


Californian is not a race. It is an unfortunate predicament though. I feel for them, I really do, that land is cursed.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Californian is not a race.



If there is something specific about californians that mean you want to get rid of them, then yes it is a race.

_A *race* is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society_

It would seem logical that it's the act of grouping people together to discriminate against them that defines racism, not some fixed classification of those groups.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Californian is not a race. It is an unfortunate predicament though. I feel for them, I really do, that land is cursed.


Give them a chance to acclimate to the land, and they may start developing genetic markers that distinguish them as a young race.



smf said:


> A *race* is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society



TIL that Liberals are racist by insulting Trump supporters.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> If there is something specific about californians that mean you want to get rid of them, then yes it is a race.
> 
> _A *race* is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society_


I don't know if there's something specific I could pinpoint that distinguishes them from the rest of the flock...


tabzer said:


> Give them a chance to acclimate to the land, and they may start developing genetic markers that distinguish them as a young race.


...yet.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't know if there's something specific I could pinpoint that distinguishes them from the rest of the flock...
> 
> ...yet.



The fact you are willing to look is good enough to confirm your status.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> The fact you are willing to look is good enough to confirm your status.


To be fair, one good look at the Los Angeles area is ample evidence that the state should either be sunk or jettisoned into space, I'm fine with either solution. Not that we'd have to convince them, California has mounted secession efforts in the past, Yes California comes to mind. I want them to be free, independent, and preferably very far away. You have to see the humour in these things, otherwise it's doom and gloom every single day.


> It would seem logical that it's the act of grouping people together to discriminate against them that defines racism, not some fixed classification of those groups.


That's the exact opposite of a logical conclusion. Racism, as the name implies, is discrimination on the basis of race, which is a pretty rigid and clear definition. The specific fixed classification of groups is a necessary element of the equation. There are some attempts to muddle it nowadays in order to permit some forms of discrimination while prohibiting others, but everybody knows the actual meaning of the word. The word you're looking for is "prejudice", you can be prejudiced on the basis of a variety of factors - it's a superset, racism is a subset. That's neither here nor there though.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> https://www.scmp.com/news/world/uni...d-trump-fakes-accent-mock-leaders-south-korea



Lol.  I didn't notice you insert that in there.  Of course we have people talking about him being racist, but we couldn't see it.  Anyway, people imitate each other all the time when telling stories.  Look at how many people imitate Trump.  I laugh when I watch videos of Japanese people imitating different American accents.  I'm probably a horrible person.  Poor Amanda Berg though.  It seems like she regrets living in America.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 13, 2020)

wartutor said:


> And yet biden has never said a racial thing in his life



We're all well aware of the rights deflection. Incredibly common practice. First it was "But but but OBAMA!!!!" Then it was "But but but HILLARY!!!!" Now it's "But but but BIDEN!!!!!" Have anything better, new, or original? And to compare the number of times Trump has mocked people and said racist things... to the amount of times Biden has done anything of the sort is FAR from even comparable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Liberals are racist by insulting Trump supporters.



This liberal is absolutely 100% racist against Trump and his supporters. I freely and happily admit it. Just like you and his supporters are racist against Liberals and Biden supporters & proud of it. Try not to be so much of  hypocrite.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Racism, as the name implies, is discrimination on the basis of race, which is a pretty rigid and clear definition.



Don't have such a closed mind.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

_In the biological and social sciences, the consensus is clear: race is a social construct, not a biological attribute._


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Again. This statement is disingenuous. Trump brought out the despicable side of politicians on both sides of the table. Democrats were not righteous in his term--or before his term.


I have no idea why you quoted my previous post again instead of acknowledging the new one...oh wait, yeah I do, those facts must not conform to your preconceived biases.

And frankly, Trump makes mobsters look righteous and just by comparison.  I have to wonder how much money he grifted out of you personally for the sunk cost fallacy to have its claws in you this deep.



tabzer said:


> People will be racist, too. It's too bad racism is more important to you than trying to be understanding.


Oh I understand perfectly.  The mask stays on until cornered, and that's when conservatives' three favorite flags decide to make an appearance.  The party has always been like this since the platform switch, but Trump dragged it even further down that rabbit hole as fast as he possibly could.  At least I can agree with his supporters on one thing though:



Let the snake eat itself.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> We can send your descendants back into the big bang where they belong.


Why stop there? If everyone is getting sent back to the big bang, may as well sent them back beyond the big bang.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Why stop there? If everyone is getting sent back to the big bang, may as well sent them back beyond the big bang.


So just have Kirby swallow everyone, then?


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Why stop there? If everyone is getting sent back to the big bang, may as well sent them back beyond the big bang.



What do you think was "before" the big bang?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Don't have such a closed mind.
> 
> http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/
> 
> _In the biological and social sciences, the consensus is clear: race is a social construct, not a biological attribute._


Prejudice is born in the eyes, not in a petri dish. People are prejudiced against others because they're different, primarily visually, when it comes to race and racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_(philosophy)#Imperialism_and_colonialism


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> What do you think was "before" the big bang?


Idk. Another universe?



Xzi said:


> So just have Kirby swallow everyone, then?


But maybe there just a giant creature before the big bang. Who knows?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Don't have such a closed mind.
> 
> http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/
> 
> _In the biological and social sciences, the consensus is clear: race is a social construct, not a biological attribute._


I swear, there's a Stonetoss comic for everything.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Prejudice is born in the eyes, not in a petri dish. People are prejudiced against others because they're different, primarily visually, when it comes to race and racism.



Right, so if you think of Californians as different and are prejudiced against them then it says more about you than them. It doesn't matter whether it's because of their ancestry or choice of location to live.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Dec 13, 2020)

I predict Trump supporting congressman and congresswomen are going to secede the GOP once their term is up and will Heil the newly formed MAGA party.

traditional republicans like what McCain was, Mitt Romney and others who are voicing their opinions against usurping Democracy,  will stay in the GOP while people like Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz and others will gladly join to double down on their base.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I swear, there's a Stonetoss comic for everything.



I swear you don't understand why race being a social construct and also needing racial diversity makes sense.

A social construct still exists. _A *social construct* is something that exists not in objective reality, but as a result of human interaction. It exists because humans agree that it exists.
_
If you only hire white people, then you constructed it.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> I swear you don't understand why race being a social construct and also needing racial diversity makes sense.
> 
> A social construct still exists. _A *social construct* is something that exists not in objective reality, but as a result of human interaction. It exists because humans agree that it exists._


Race is biological. It exists in objective reality.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> I swear you don't understand why race being a social construct and also needing racial diversity makes sense.
> 
> A social construct still exists.


I would just ignore when he postsany pictures, he's already admitted twice in this very topic that he hasn't understood what he was posting before and stating that he "just did it for memes" , that he barely has a year of political knowledge under his belt, and is home-schooled by his delusional, conspiracy theory believing parents.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> he's already admitted twice in this very topic that he hasn't understood what he was posting before and stating that he "just did it for memes"


That applied to one meme. I've read every Stonetoss comic multiple times.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Race is biological. It exists in objective reality.



No, biologically it's complicated.

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/10/6943461/race-social-construct-origins-census

In effect, race was created by racists.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Right, so if you think of Californians as different and are prejudiced against them then it says more about you than them. It doesn't matter whether it's because of their ancestry or choice of location to live.


They're still not a race, but you're welcome to think whatever you want, even if it's inane. In regards to race being a construct, the consensus is there more so because nobody wants to rock that boat rather than because it's unquestionably true. Sadly, discussing taxonomical differences between various races and ethnicities often leads to talk of supremacy, so most people prefer to keep that can of worms closed, especially after what happened in the 20th century. Dawkins speaks on that matter at length and once explained why avoiding the discussion of race as a biological fact rather than a social construct is a mistake that sets science and medicine back. If differences in the genome were explored properly without the stigma of "racist research" hanging over the endeavour, many preventable diseases could be mitigated before they cause damage in ethnic groups that are particularly susceptible to them.

https://time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/

Sadly we can't have such nice things and the subject will always be a field of egg shells that must be danced around. Can't be helped, I suppose. The idea that humans who evolved under vastly different conditions are exactly the same, or that evolution got to a certain point and then suddenly stopped, is not just silly on the face of it - it's flat out wrong. Humans have adapted and continue to adapt to their surroundings, regardless of whether we think that's racist or not.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> No, biologically it's more diverse than you can comprehend but stick to your old ideas.


So what you're saying is that race _is_ biological, and we can't just categorize people into white/black/Asian. The belief that race matters is, in itself, racist, as unlike with other biological groups, there is literally *nothing* that a white person can do but a black person can't, or vice versa.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> That applied to one meme. I've read every Stonetoss comic multiple times.


Imagine actually reading the tripe from a holocaust denier, posting his comic that advocates it, and then trying to defend that you still read him and then acting like it was a cool thing to post said comic under the notion you didn't understand. 

Back to your lame excuse though, you unironically posted a "meme" that tried to say the hand sanitizer is communistic as well. 

So either you understand clearly what you're posting or you're an ignorant teenager that just doesn't understand anything at all and are just parroting points because you were told those points were "correct" or because you're easily influenced/gullible.

Pick a lane and stay in it please.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I swear, there's a Stonetoss comic for everything.


Oh you are still posting from this well known racist Nazi supporting comic strip I see. 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/StoneToss

https://amp.reddit.com/r/antifaston..._definitive_guide_to_why_stonetoss_is_a_nazi/


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So what you're saying is that race _is_ biological, and we can't just categorize people into white/black/Asian.



What I'm saying is that you can have a white person and a black person that have more in common in their dna, than two black people.

Humans like to classify things & we make a mess up of it. For example lots of things with fish and berry in their name, are not fish or berries.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> What I'm saying is that you can have a white person and a black person that have more in common in their dna, than two black people.
> 
> Humans like to classify things & we make a mess up of it. For example lots of things with fish and berry in their name, are not fish or berries.


This is also correct for other species that have distinct subspecies or breeds and is not evidence of race having no/negligible biological component. All of humanity share the same set of genes, and those genes have the same sets of alleles. Race is instead determined by allele frequency, as well as larger allele constructs. If I recall correctly, just skin colour alone is determined by five separate genes, and there are multiple configurations that create similar results. If race had no biological markers, tracing one's ancestry back across generations on the basis of DNA would simply be impossible, and it's common practice contemporarily, not to mention exceedingly accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics

For the record, the human DNA shares 60% of genetic material with a banana, so we're talking about very subtle differences here. If we were basing things on genetic similarity alone, we would quickly end up with quite hilarious conclusions. It's complicated, as you say.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh you are still posting from this well known racist Nazi supporting comic strip I see.
> 
> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/StoneToss


https://rottenwebsites.miraheze.org/wiki/RationalWiki


AmandaRose said:


> https://amp.reddit.com/r/antifaston..._definitive_guide_to_why_stonetoss_is_a_nazi/


Funny Comics Man: "Hey, look! Everyone you called a Nazi on social media actually really likes foreign entertainment!"
Commies: "Of course!"

Listen, I understand that Stonetoss isn't for everyone, but if the best you've got is some Resdit post, then you'll have to try harder.
I wonder what political webcomics you read...Breadpanels?


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> https://rottenwebsites.miraheze.org/wiki/RationalWiki
> 
> Funny Comics Man: "Hey, look! Everyone you called a Nazi on social media actually really likes foreign entertainment!"
> Commies: "Of course!"
> ...


I don't read any political comics you know because I am not brain dead or easily lead. 

And for the record if you don't belive in the holocaust then sorry you are clearly a nazi supporter. And sorry there are thousands of reports on the interwebs about how the comic strip is racist.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> If race had no biological markers, tracing one's ancestry back across generations on the basis of DNA would simply be impossible, and it's common practice contemporary, not to mention exceedingly accurate.



No, you've misunderstood. DNA obviously is inherited & can be traced through ancestors. That there is a distinct race, is something we made up, https://www.popsci.com/story/science/dna-tests-myth-ancestry-race/

_As a result, someone with a high estimate of West African ancestry might not look or even identify as black. Similarly, an individual whose tests come back with a very low estimate of West African ancestry might actually be black.

That’s why geneticists haven’t devised a test that can conclusively determine a person’s race. And in a way, it’s impossible. Race is about how we identify and are identified; it’s more than a question of appearance—it’s a question of culture, history, geography, and family. It can’t be boiled down to genetics and percentages._


We could make up 100 different races if we wanted to.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> And for the record if you don't belive in the holocaust then sorry you are clearly a nazi supporter.


Again, those three comics where Stonetoss denies the Holocaust are his only misses.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Again, those three comics where Stonetoss denies the Holocaust are his only misses.


I will give you some friendly advice kid. Posting shit from stonetoss does not help your argument at all. Especially if you are not racist or a nazi supporter yourself. If you want to be taken seriously here stop posting stonetoss shit.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> I will give you some friendly advice kid. Posting shit from stonetoss does not help your argument at all. Especially if you are not racist or a nazi supporter yourself. If you want to be taken seriously here stop posting stonetoss shit.


I have alternatives.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Funny Comics Man: "Hey, look! Everyone you called a Nazi on social media actually really likes foreign entertainment!"
> Commies: "Of course!"



You can hold two opposing views, you can be racist but have black friends for example (the "he's one of the good ones" delusion) or even be racist against your own race ("I'm one of the good ones" delusion).


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> No, you've misunderstood. DNA obviously is inherited & can be traced. That there is a distinct race, is something we made up.


I haven't "misunderstood" anything, the fact that DNA is inherited is precisely what allows science to delineate racial characteristics. These things have practical applications, ignoring them has real life consequences. For instance, "black" americans are 50% more likely to suffer from lung cancer, 3 times more likely to suffer from asthma and a staggering 16 times more likely to die from lung scarring compared to their "white" peers, in spite of statistically being exposed to less cigarette smoke. These figures are in part caused by socio-economic factors, but it is also likely that there are genetic components that contribute to the current state of affairs. We can use genetics in order to preemptively determine risks and deploy preventative medicine in order to improve those figures. Your genetic ancestry plays a role in your overall health, there are associated risk factors here that are certainly worth considering.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> I haven't "misunderstood" anything, the fact that DNA is inherited is precisely what allows science to delineate racial characteristics.



No it allows them to delineate ancestry.

_In an ironic twist, however, race—and racism—have affected how we understand ancestry. DNA tests like 23andMe pack a strong Eurocentric bias because they’re based on genetic research that’s largely from one continent. In fact, the original samples analyzed by the Human Genome Diversity Project didn’t include any samples from North America.

While efforts have been made to produce more geographically representative samples, at-home DNA tests still give far more detailed answers about European ancestry than most other parts of the world. My grandpa’s tests, for instance, included incredible granular detail on his profile from the Iberian peninsula (it went so far as to suss Sephardic Jews from other Spaniards). But his American ancestry just said “North America” (a category that lumps Inuits together with Aztecs).
_
Your ancestors may have had a mutation that was genetically advantageous & so it spread in a specific area. But does that make them a "race" just because some of that dna produces a visible difference, especially if that difference is caused by a different dna mutation than other people in that race?

It is like treating illnesses based on the symptoms, rather than the cause.


----------



## brickmii82 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> You can hold two opposing views, you can be racist but have black friends for example (the "he's one of the good ones" delusion) or even be racist against your own race ("I'm one of the good ones" delusion).



This came to mind...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidental_Courtesy:_Daryl_Davis,_Race_&_America


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> No it allows them to delineate ancestry.
> 
> _In an ironic twist, however, race—and racism—have affected how we understand ancestry. DNA tests like 23andMe pack a strong Eurocentric bias because they’re based on genetic research that’s largely from one continent. In fact, the original samples analyzed by the Human Genome Diversity Project didn’t include any samples from North America.
> 
> While efforts have been made to produce more geographically representative samples, at-home DNA tests still give far more detailed answers about European ancestry than most other parts of the world. My grandpa’s tests, for instance, included incredible granular detail on his profile from the Iberian peninsula (it went so far as to suss Sephardic Jews from other Spaniards). But his American ancestry just said “North America” (a category that lumps Inuits together with Aztecs)._


Dawkins explores this concept in depth in The Ancestors’ Tale, which I suggest you read. We're straying far off the topic of the conversation though, the diversion is becoming circular, so there's no point in continuing.

EDIT:


smf said:


> Your ancestors may have had a mutation that was genetically advantageous & so it spread in a specific area. But does that make them a "race" just because some of that dna produces a visible difference, especially if that difference is caused by a different dna mutation than other people in that race?
> 
> It is like treating illnesses based on the symptoms, rather than the cause.


This is also a factor, it's applicable to things like sickle cell. Malaria decimated African populations and as a consequence people who were affected by sickle cell survived while those who were not sadly perished - it provided a degree of immunity against the disease. This is why this inherited disorder is particularly prevalent in black populations that originate from malaria-stricken areas. It's certainly one part of the puzzle, among many.


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

brickmii82 said:


> This came to mind...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidental_Courtesy:_Daryl_Davis,_Race_&_America



These white supremacists don't seem supreme

_Frank Ancona, the Klansman depicted at the opening and close of the documentary film Accidental Courtesy, was found shot dead in Missouri on February 11, 2017, two days before the airing of the film. Ancona's wife and step-son were both charged for the murder_

_The imperial wizard of the Traditionalist American Knights, Frank Ancona, was fatally shot in Missouri in February 2017, several days after disappearing. The coroner declared his death a homicide. Ancona's wife and stepson were charged with first-degree murder in connection with the killing. The prosecutor in the case believes that the killing "happened because of a marital dispute" and was not connected to Ancona's Klan participation.
_




Foxi4 said:


> Dawkins explores this concept in depth in The Ancestors’ Tale, which I suggest you read. We're straying far off the topic of the conversation though, the diversion is becoming circular, so there's no point in continuing.



Richard Dawkins is a bit of an arse, I tend to avoid him. The only mention of race on the wikipedia page is

_*The Grasshopper's Tale* talks about the futility of discriminating between races._

So I wonder if you understand what he is saying.

http://files.meetup.com/13055/The Grasshopper's Tale.pdf

Or maybe you disagree with him?



Foxi4 said:


> EDIT:
> This is also a factor, it's applicable to things like sickle cell. Malaria decimated African populations and as a consequence those affected sickle cell survived while those who were not sadly perished - it provided a degree of immunity against the disease. This is why this inherited disorder is particularly prevalent in black populations that originate from malaria-stricken areas. It's certainly one part of the puzzle, among many.



Again, that is more about ancestry than race. If it was about race then every black person would have sickle cell, or those with sickle cell would be a different race than those who weren't.


----------



## brickmii82 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> These white supremacists don't seem supreme
> 
> _Frank Ancona, the Klansman depicted at the opening and close of the documentary film Accidental Courtesy, was found shot dead in Missouri on February 11, 2017, two days before the airing of the film. Ancona's wife and step-son were both charged for the murder_
> 
> ...



So it seems. What I was referring to specifically though, in the film as I recall one of the Klansmen he befriended told him he was "one of the good ones" so your post brought this film to mind for me.


----------



## g_west (Dec 13, 2020)

How the fuck did you folks even get to this point...?


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Richard Dawkins is a bit of an arse, I tend to avoid him. The only mention of race on the wikipedia page is
> 
> _*The Grasshopper's Tale* talks about the futility of discriminating between races._
> 
> So I wonder if you understand what he is saying.


I'm against discriminating against people based on innate characteristics, if that's what you're asking. I am, however, in support of genetic research that can help us better understand our species and better serve the unique needs of diverse populations. I include research surrounding race in that equation. If there are genetic factors related to race that allow us to better level the playing field, and we know there are, then they should play a role, in medicine in particular. We live in an extremely mobile world and as various ethnic groups intermix genetic differences become less and less prevalent. It's entirely possible that in the foreseeable future race won't really be a thing in terms of genetic makeup. As it stands today however, there are distinct genetic markers linked to particular kinds of ancestry, and I consider them informative as far as therapy is concerned. I don't think a "one size fits all" approach is the correct one - we should use all available information to better cater to unique challenges every individual faces in life.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I have alternatives.


Hopefully one that doesn't spread false news, propaganda, and holocaust denial.

Doubtful considering your record thus far.

Can't wait for your next post of "Everything I don't agree with is communism" or "Idiotic conspiracy theories mommy taught me"


----------



## Xzi (Dec 13, 2020)

And so it begins: reports flooding in of Proud Boys/MAGAts stabbing people in DC and shooting people in Washington state.  Time to start stringing up anybody who's still inciting/encouraging this type of terrorism in town square.

Anybody that desperate for a "white power utopia" should just move to Russia already.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 13, 2020)

SonowRaevius said:


> Hopefully one that doesn't spread false news, propaganda, and holocaust denial.
> 
> Doubtful considering your record thus far.


I've got PumpkinFace, Zooptoon, Not OK Comics, Sh1tty Comics, and Hedgewik.


SonowRaevius said:


> Can't wait for your next post of "Everything I don't agree with is communism" or "Idiotic conspiracy theories mommy taught me"


Funny coming from the side that says "everything I don't like is racist and fascist".


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Funny coming from the side that says "everything I don't like is racist and fascist".


Funny coming from the literal child that is going "Wahhhh, mask hurts my ears a little so it's fascism and treading on my rights". 

Also, I dare you to go through my history and find one instance of me calling anyone on here a racist or a fascist. 

You won't find any, but maybe it will help you open your narrow little mind up a bit and realize that not everyone that disagrees with you in on some imaginary side/category that you, and the rest of the lot that continue to do so, think they fit in to.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I have no idea why you quoted my previous post again instead of acknowledging the new one...oh wait, yeah I do, those facts must not conform to your preconceived biases.



You are shifting the goalpost.  Reposting your original comment shows the departure your point has made.



D34DL1N3R said:


> This liberal is absolutely 100% racist against Trump and his supporters. I freely and happily admit it. Just like you and his supporters are racist against Liberals and Biden supporters & proud of it. Try not to be so much of  hypocrite.



I thought it was already understood that everyone who doesn't support Liberals, at least those who proudly wear that name ironically, were already racist. I'm just uniting the people under one understanding.

Also, how can I be racist against people who don't exist?


----------



## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> If there are genetic factors related to race that allow us to better level the playing field, and we know there are, then they should play a role, in medicine in particular.



Fixed that for you.
Genetic factors are related to ancestry.

Don't discriminate by only spending money on research that affects predominantly white people, which might be genetic or maybe it's environmental.

I don't think we should overlook the reasons why people end up being republican.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 13, 2020)

Looks like they are not give trying to hide voter suppression anymore https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1338189444311101441?s=20
“ to add drop boxes and take other steps to make it harder for Republicans to win.” the whole Republican strategy is the less people who vote the better.. I wonder why they want to defranchise million of voter.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2020)

smf said:


> Fixed that for you.
> Genetic factors are related to ancestry.
> 
> Don't discriminate by only spending money on research that affects predominantly white people, which might be genetic or maybe it's environmental.
> ...


You haven't "fixed" anything, you just added a level of obfuscation, like most people uncomfortable with the idea of race. I'm not uncomfortable with it at all - Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.

I don't know where you get the spending idea from. The problem is the stigma in the scientific community that prevents researchers from even approaching the subject. That's a problem, but I suppose using the word "ancestry" instead is a sufficient work-around to appease people with moral objections that are obviously not rooted in science of any kind, rather in fear of the science being misused for racist means, which is a known quantity.

In any case, blacks have predominantly African ancestry, whites have predominantly European (or rather, Eurasian) ancestry, Asians have predominantly Asian ancestry. Using a synonym doesn't detract from the point - your genetic ancestry is the primary determinant of your race, the two are one and the same for all intents and purposes.

Enough about that though, I've indulged you enough, the conversation isn't interesting enough to hold my attention anymore. By all means, stick to your ideals if you wish, as long as the result is functionally the same - support for the research of specific genetic sequences that increase the likelyhood of being negatively affected by pathogens or environmental hazards like pollution, bad diet, or simply aging. Having this kind of data can only benefit the public, being informed about risk factors is a necessary component in all kinds of decision making.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

I'm surprised nobody has noticed or mentioned this story.....  oh, that's right, the CCP propaganda "news" media claims this is "russian propaganda", so you won't hear about this as it goes against the left's Dear Leader Xi Jinping's plan.

*EXCLUSIVE: FBI Criminal Probe Tracks 500,000 Counterfeit Biden Ballots in Four Key Battleground States*

Too bad that the FBI is full of chinese operatives and this will be "memory holed":

*Major leak 'exposes' members and 'lifts the lid' on the Chinese Communist Party *


I guess Joe did have "'The Most Extensive And Inclusive Voter Fraud Organization’ In American History" with over 1.95 chinese operatives working around the world to get him "elected".


It's such a shame that the *Snip* Democrat party has had to resort to cheating in order to gain power to push the agenda of China as they, obviously, can't win on merit alone.

In case anybody here has forgotten already, watch this:


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 14, 2020)

The Hunter Biden story gives me a hearty chuckle. A month ago anything negative related to Hunter was considered to be Russian or Chinese propaganda, an effort to spread disinformation among the voting public. The New York Post story was straight-up shunned and wiped off of social media platforms, you couldn't even share it. Of course now the election is over, so it's completely fine to publish stories about the president-elect's son being investigated by the FBI for years for precisely the kind of stuff he was being accused of - corruption, and coasting on daddy's name to rake in big bucks from foreign governments, presumably for favours. It really makes you wonder if the press is there to inform the public or if it has taken the mantle of "leading" it by picking and choosing what kind of information should be disseminated, which is effectively disinformation by neglecting to mention the truth. Top tier journalism-ing. Remember, democracy dies in darkness, so don't look at that dark corner over there, and we're not going to shine a light on it until the candidate we support "wins".

https://nypost.com/2020/12/10/how-media-covered-up-the-hunter-biden-story-until-after-the-election/

The Post is in full deservement of a public apology from all the companies that suppressed it, if not restitution for lost revenue - disabling links to their story obviously decreased traffic, which in turn decreased their revenue. If I were in charge of the publication, I'd be preparing a lawsuit by now, there are demonstrable damages to speak of here.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I'm surprised nobody has noticed or mentioned this story.....


Oh boy, your back. let's go ahead and look into why we should be surprised (or lack thereof)





morvoran said:


> oh, that's right, the CCP propaganda "news" media claims this is "russian propaganda", so you won't hear about this as it goes against the left's Dear Leader Xi Jinping's plan.
> 
> *EXCLUSIVE: FBI Criminal Probe Tracks 500,000 Counterfeit Biden Ballots in Four Key Battleground States*


So you linked the true pundit...

media bias:
 




 
I can't possibly imagine why no one  would take them serious (sarcastic surprise pikachu face)
moving on to the next link


morvoran said:


> *Major leak 'exposes' members and 'lifts the lid' on the Chinese Communist Party *



And mediabiasfactcheck.com has a major story for you




 
color me surprised


morvoran said:


>



oh boy... another youtube video. I'm so excited... it's from....
Wow... 





 
So biased information... 
And how is this supposed to make anyone believe or trust you?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

"So would you show up at the inauguration?" 

Trump- "I don't want to talk about that,"

sounds like someone is depressed..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And how is this supposed to make anyone believe or trust you?



I think he's doing it for the "I told you so" angle.  @Foxi4 is absolutely correct also, so consider that you are dismissing propaganda with propaganda and acknowledge that nobody can convince anyone of jack.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> sO yOu LiNkEd ToO a NoN lEfTy SiTe, LeT mE tElL yOu Why YoU aRe WrOnG



Sky News is one of the biggest news broadcasters in the world, But the Australian version isn't a lefty shithole so it must be fake LOL


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Sky News is one of the biggest news broadcasters in the world, But the Australian version isn't a lefty shithole so it must be fake LOL


Of course, anybody who goes against the claim that Joe Biden "fairly won the election" is denounced as "fake" or "russian propaganda" or a "blog".  The site could be called, "Leftistchinesepropagandaforanitifa.com" and will still be claimed as a "far right shill site".



Did anyone catch this revealing story about "no fraud in our election"?

*Attorney: Michigan Vote Flip Happened Due to Computer Program, Not Human ‘Error’*

Turns out that the "human error" that gave a Michigan county to Biden when Trump actually won it by over 2000 votes was actually a "feature" of dominion software that purposefully switched Trump votes to Biden.  To all the leftist shills on here claiming there is no proof of fraud, cheating, or indiscrepancies, I'm sure this is just more "russian propaganda" and lies to attempt to "steal" the election from Biden who stole the election fair and square.

Biden and his lies might make it to inauguration due to the limited time to expose the massive amounts of fraud and cheating (which was a part of the Pedocrats plan all along) along with the CCP infiltration of our government, but he won't be president for long.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Of course, anybody who goes against the claim that Joe Biden "fairly won the election" is denounced as "fake" or "russian propaganda" or a "blog".  The site could be called, "Leftistchinesepropagandaforanitifa.com" and will still be claimed as a "far right shill site".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For one, you dont have any Good evidence of widespread voter fraud. Sure, you got good proof of voter fraud, but widespread voter fraud? There is no good proof. Even then, it dosent matter. Tomarrow is the college vote. Safe harbor already passed. Demos have a majority in House. Trump is gonna lose no matter what.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Sky News is one of the biggest news broadcasters in the world, But the Australian version isn't a lefty shithole so it must be fake LOL


Oh I'm sorry. I guess it's acceptable to just not care about facts, or try to link sources that are as propaganda/biased as possible.
If you look at most of my sources, hell, I even linked center right leaning sources. If you notice, nearly every single thing I link, is reported either as "mostly factual" or High. I don't give three shits if it's right leaning, or left leaning. I start caring if it's beyond the center lean, angle. As at that point the truth starts getting severely skewed.
Moving beyond and back to the original discussion.
Clearly though, you have nothing to refute about what I said, given that you didn't both refuting the fact that morvan linked sources that are questionable at best, conspiracy at worst and intentionally misleading.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Of course, anybody who goes against the claim that Joe Biden "fairly won the election" is denounced as "fake" or "russian propaganda" or a "blog".  The site could be called, "Leftistchinesepropagandaforanitifa.com" and will still be claimed as a "far right shill site".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah geller report, let me look who owns the site.
*Pamela Geller
*
Oh...
Wikipedia:"*Pamela Geller* (born 1958) is an American anti-Muslim, far-right, political activist, blogger and commentator"
So...
Uh.
If this is supposedly what I'm supposed to accept as normal, that's a fuck normal.
Again, why would I listen to someone who actively discriminates against a group of people. And or lying, or intentionally misleading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Geller
Is it normal in the right to just hate muslim people? if not.
Why are you using this person as a source?


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 14, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Sky News is one of the biggest news broadcasters in the world, But the Australian version isn't a lefty shithole so it must be fake LOL


Nah everyone knows Sky News Australia is a far right news channel. 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/...ion-of-sky-news-became-home-for-the-far-right


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

Yea here more info That the lame stream media does not what you to know
*‘Salutes The Courageous Legislators Determined To Overturn The Will Of Voters*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

remember years ago when President Putin hacked in the the US agency systems and President did not do anything but suck his thumb. . Oh wait that was today


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 14, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Sky News is one of the biggest news broadcasters in the world, But the Australian version isn't a lefty shithole so it must be fake LOL


This coming from the guy that literally calls anything remotely left of far right, crazy-town conspiracies "CNN" and lefty shit holes doesn't really mean a whole lot at the end of the day.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

Also brief argument, leading off my previous post.
Since I blatantly remember one of you (morvan, shamzie, Ultra supra etc.) [you all have similar ideologies]
Arguing that the right isn't racist. And that the left is.
If we imagine fear of another, which is essentially what racism, xenophobia or in this case, fear of a group of people who have a specific religion.
Why the hell is it that the right, if those are supposed to be the sources I'm supposed to believe as "real" having those exact issues stated above.
Why is it speared by people who are either alt-right, who conveniently have a bone to pick with people of a certain ethnicity, or people who are xenophobic, or also in this case, religious discrimination for a better term, on your side of the coin, when supposedly it's supposed to be on the left side.

You've claimed before that the left is. Course, my idea of left and your's likely greatly differ. I don't think left as liberal. I think of those who are genuinely socialists or communist.
regardless you package that side, and wrap it into your little box, claiming those problems on that side, while blatantly exuding them on yours.
So, I ask, 
can you explain your reasoning for this hypocrisy?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

“AMERICA FIRST” became “AFTER RUSSIA”


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> For one, you dont have any Good evidence of widespread voter fraud. Sure, you got good proof of voter fraud, but widespread voter fraud? There is no good proof. Even then, it dosent matter. Tomarrow is the college vote. Safe harbor already passed. Demos have a majority in House. Trump is gonna lose no matter what.



Is there ever any acceptable level of voter fraud, mate?  I bet you think that over 260,000 dead from covid is acceptable as it's not 2,000,000 like the estimates originally were.  EDIT:  I do realize that the 260,000 number of dead is extremely exaggerated.

I feel that even one ballot illegally placed for any candidate is one too many illegal ballots, so you're point is moot, mate.
The point is that there is enough to evidence to conclude that the election results must be audited in every state to make sure our elections are legit.





Here's more proof that Creepy Joe Pedo can't be trusted -

BIDEN BOMBSHELL
*Hunter Biden ‘requested key for “office mate” Joe at space he planned to share with Chinese emissary’, email shows*

HMM, how many times did Biden state that he had no knowledge of his son's business affairs?  Oh, I guess it's just a coincidence that this also happened in Chy-na.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Is there ever any acceptable level of voter fraud, mate?  I bet you think that over 260,000 dead from covid is acceptable as it's not 2,000,000 like the estimates originally were.  EDIT:  I do realize that the 260,000 number of dead is extremely exaggerated.
> 
> I feel that even one ballot illegally placed for any candidate is one too many illegal ballots, so you're point is moot, mate.
> The point is that there is enough to evidence to conclude that the election results must be audited in every state to make sure our elections are legit.
> ...


How on earth is that proof that Biden can't be trusted? It's a story from a newspaper who are famous in the UK for making shit up and that nobody here trusts.

Let me just help you out with what UK papers can and can't be trusted.

*A* (Heavily intellectual, highly serious)

*The Guardian* - Centre Left (Labour, some Lib Dem)
*The Independent* - Centre Left (Labour and Lib Dem)
*The Observer* - Centre Left (Labour and Lib Dem)
*The Financial Times* - Centrist (Mixed)
*The Times* - Centrist (Mixed)
*The Telegraph* - Centre Right (Conservative)


*B* (Intellectual and serious, but cut down for the convenience of the reader without much time on his or her hands)

*The i* - Centre Left (Labour and Lib Dem)
*The Morning Star* - Left (Socialist parties, some Labour)


*C* (Non-intellectual, sensationalist, often derided by readers of A and B papers)

*Mirror* - Centre Left (Labour)
*Express* - Right (Conservative, UKIP)
*Mail* - Right (Conservative, UKIP)


*D* (Very non-intellectual, hugely sensationalist and barely qualify as newspapers at all)

*Sun* - Right (Conservative)
*Star* - Right (Conservative and far right parties)
*News of The World* - Right (Conservative)


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

Good to see morvoran coping with Trump's loss well lmao.  Odds are the Hunter Biden investigation is one final partisan hit job that goes nowhere just like most Republican-led efforts, but if it does somehow find evidence of wrongdoing or criminal activity, so be it.  Nobody is above the law.  Hopefully your attitude remains consistent on the subject when it comes to the inevitable litany of lawsuits and investigations heading toward Ivanka and Donald after inauguration day.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Good to see morvoran coping with Trump's loss well lmao.  Odds are the Hunter Biden investigation is one final partisan hit job that goes nowhere just like most Republican-led efforts, but if it does somehow find evidence of wrongdoing or criminal activity, so be it.  Nobody is above the law.  Hopefully your attitude remains consistent on the subject when it comes to the inevitable litany of lawsuits and investigations heading toward Ivanka and Donald after inauguration day.



Hey, you tag me on your replies when you want to start our "pillow talk", Sweetheart.   

Also, I never realized this.....   I just noticed that your username is @Xzi which is very close to Xi (as in Xi Jinping).  I always thought you were too lazy to come up with a better name, but it seems that you might be a CCP spy to keep track of people on this site.  I'm going to need to look up your name on that recently released list of CCP spies to see if you're on it.


----------



## Master X (Dec 14, 2020)

In the Suns defense, they did include a bit at the bottom about how they couldn't verify the authenticity of the sources for their Biden coverage. That is, sadly, far more honesty than some of the US sites reporting on the controversy show.

Also, I love that Morovan didn't even bother reading his own source. If he did, he's know that the 'shared space' was in a US based hotel, not one based in Chyna. (Also, is that even a real country? I can't seem to find it on a map...)

Anyway, Trump is now... 1-59, I think? Oh well, SO MUCH WINNING!!!

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics...p-election-appeal/6AGL7HIWCRASHCKNP7QTJIKXBM/


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Is there ever any acceptable level of voter fraud, mate?  I bet you think that over 260,000 dead from covid is acceptable as it's not 2,000,000 like the estimates originally were.  EDIT:  I do realize that the 260,000 number of dead is extremely exaggerated.
> 
> I feel that even one ballot illegally placed for any candidate is one too many illegal ballots, so you're point is moot, mate.
> The point is that there is enough to evidence to conclude that the election results must be audited in every state to make sure our elections are legit.
> ...


I remember hearing that Trump was a great President because he did not start any wars. what that really meant is Other Counties can walk all over Trump and he would never to anything bout it..

Trump is even actively stated he is going to defund the Military by veto the military spending bill today ...
Trump is a weak President. Right Comrade”


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

Master X said:


> I love that Morovan didn't even bother reading his own source.


  It's MORVORAN, for one.   Two, I never read my sources past the headline and first paragraph.



Master X said:


> not one based in Chyna. (Also, is that even a real country? I can't seem to find it on a map...)


  I never stated Chyna.  I said "Chy-na".  Get it straight.  If you can't find that on a map, try looking a little harder than CNN for your information.



Master X said:


> Anyway, Trump is now... 1-59, I think? Oh well, SO MUCH WINNING!!!


  Hey, I just flipped a coin and guessed Heads in your honor.  It landed on Tails.  You're such a loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trump's legal team only has 3 - 5 lawsuits.  All the others were made by other individuals.  I believe the real number is 1-0.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Also, I never realized this.....   I just noticed that your username is @Xzi which is very close to Xi (as in Xi Jinping).  I always thought you were too lazy to come up with a better name, but it seems that you might be a CCP spy to keep track of people on this site.  I'm going to need to look up your name on that recently released list of CCP spies to see if you're on it.


Just now noticing the similarity, eh?  Well I doubt anybody's ever accused you of being the sharpest tool in the shed.

Anyway, I've used this handle since the early 90s when connecting to the internet was extremely noisy, so clearly he's a poser who saw my username and thought it was so cool that he changed his legal name.

(The name is actually an amalgam of X and Zero from MMX.  It's pronounced simply "Z" or "Zee," whereas Xi is pronounced more like "Shi.")


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

*White House confirms cyberattack report on U.S. Treasury by foreign government *
Trump was heard saying *“ If Russia is hearing this, hack in the government system to find fraud”*


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I never stated Chyna.  I said "Chy-na".  Get it straight.  If you can't find that on a map, try looking a little harder than CNN for your information.


No comment.. I guess El Presidente of Venasula is bad  but the President is Russia is good?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Hunter Biden investigation is one final partisan hit job



Lol unlike the hearsay of Trump pissing on hookers this one has videod and audio.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> (The name is actually an amalgam of X and Zero from MMX. It's pronounced simply "Z" or "Zee," whereas Xi is pronounced more like "Shi.")


  I still think you just slammed your head on your keyboard and those were the letters that came up.



Spoiler: XZI


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

You better hope the pedophile goes to jail.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol unlike the hearsay of Trump pissing on hookers this one has videod and audio.


Or the entire "Russian collusion" hoax that wasted over $40 million and 3 years.  Still waiting on all that evidence that that piece of Schiff supposedly has.

@Xzi


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Or the entire "Russian collusion" hoax that wasted over $40 million and 3 years.  Still waiting on all that evidence that that piece of Schiff supposedly has.
> 
> @Xzi


Wait which Russian collusion 2016 or the one from today ?


----------



## wartutor (Dec 14, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> For one, you dont have any Good evidence of widespread voter fraud. Sure, you got good proof of voter fraud, but widespread voter fraud? There is no good proof. Even then, it dosent matter. Tomarrow is the college vote. Safe harbor already passed. Demos have a majority in House. Trump is gonna lose no matter what.


Any proof of voter fraud should make all votes void and null and press an immediate in person, with id revote. Should of been the case from the beginning their never should of been this bull crap mail in ballot shit. It has caused every bit of this and basically has left half the country in a state of disbelief. Before long i see texas succeding from the usa with many other stats following


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Any proof of voter fraud should make all votes void and null and press an immediate in person, with id revote.


*Trump Supporter Admits Voter Fraud, Says She Voted Twice For President in Viral Video**. **And she was convicted for it in 2016**...*


----------



## wartutor (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> *Trump Supporter Admits Voter Fraud, Says She Voted Twice For President in Viral Video**. **And she was convicted for it in 2016**...*


So their is proof that its easy to do if that dumb ass can do it. And proving it happened even just a couple of times opens up the question of how many do we not know of. The system is broke and needs fixed


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

wartutor said:


> So their is proof that its easy to do if that dumb ass can do it. And proving it happened even just a couple of times opens up the question of how many do we not know of. The system is broke and needs fixed


Sure and  seeing that 2020 just like  2016 can’t be changed.. I’m sure Biden will look into creating fair voter registration and over seeing to make sure crazy people cant claim phishing aligations without proof.


----------



## wartutor (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Sure and  seeing that 2020 just like  2016 can’t be changed.. I’m sure Biden will look into creating fair voter registration and over seeing to make sure crazy people cant claim phishing aligations without proof.


You can call half the people in the united states crazy they are calling your side crazy. Problem is without an unbiased check on the voter system noone will ever know what side was right. I dont care one way or the other just calling what i see from both sides.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

wartutor said:


> You can call half the people in the united states crazy they are calling your side crazy. Problem is without an unbiased check on the voter system noone will ever know what side was right. I dont care one way or the other just calling what i see from both sides.


No im pretty should Georgia checked the vote *3 times, *Wisconsin* Checked 2 times ... I really don’t think they going to find anything on the fourth pass...*
Oh did I forget to mention Trump dined and ditched the 3millon dollar cost of the Wisconsin recount.. Republicans refuse to pay for it.. so sad I guess Trump need 200 million more to be donated by suckers.. I mean Real Americans


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I still think you just slammed your head on your keyboard and those were the letters that came up.


Whereas I can only assume you started with the word "moron" as a base for your username and added a few random letters in.  A bit too on-the-nose for my tastes, but you do you.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

I feel like this is the government during this pandemic.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Whereas I can only assume you started with the word "moron" as a base for your username and added a few random letters in.  A bit too on -the-nose for my tastes, but you do you.


I just thought he misspelled Moron..


----------



## Master X (Dec 14, 2020)

wartutor said:


> So their is proof that its easy to do if that dumb ass can do it. And proving it happened even just a couple of times opens up the question of how many do we not know of. The system is broke and needs fixed



People committing election fraud should certainly be charged - And, as that story shows, they are - But even Republicans agree that one off cases like this aren't enough to impact election results.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...vidence-widespread-election-fraud/3783305001/



> “To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP, even as Trump continued to pursue legal challenges to an election he has yet to concede to President-elect Joe Biden.



Barr's stance is quite the change from his earlier :"We're going to see massive voter fraud!" opinion.

You want a unbiased check? Check the Supreme Court. Liberal judges, conservative judges, three of Trumps own appointed judges all agree - Trump doesn't have a leg to stand on over his 'wide spread, massive, the likes we've never seen!!!' voter fraud claims.

In fact, even Republicans who are nominally on his side agree too - which is why they're trying to file cases seeking to invalidate elections results without citing fraud as the reason. (Or, as a pro-trump lawyer put it in Wisconsin... "Proof of fraudulently cast ballots is not necessary")

Also @Xzi , pretty sure this is the origin for his name - https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/026/479/morans.jpg

Edit - Fun fact, but one of the many Republicans who have filed a election suit? His name just so happens to be Moran.

https://www.boston.com/news/politic...-republicans-terribly-unfair-election-lawsuit

He also had a interesting take too about voter fraud... It doesn't have to be proven to have happened, just that it MIGHT have happened.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I feel like this is the government during this pandemic.
> View attachment 237969


Most bunker people I know don’t even leave the bunker.. isn’t this the exact situation Doomsday prepper work for.. to stay underground for months at a time than why are people having hissy fits that they can’t to daycare..


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Most bunker people I know don’t even leave the bunker.. isn’t this the exact situation Doomsday prepper work for.. to stay underground for months at a time than why are people having hissy fits that they can’t to daycare..


This isn't the apocalypse. We have a vaccine.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> This isn't the apocalypse. We have a vaccine.


Ok so you agreethe anti mask rant was people crying bout their diapers rash ..


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Ok so you agreethe anti mask rant was people crying bout their diapers rash ..


What? No! This whole thing was never too severe to begin with. The vaccine just means that you have to agree with me.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What? No! This whole thing was never too severe to begin with. The vaccine just means that you have to agree with me.


No  I think you confused..you just agreed that wearing  mask was not the apocalypse.. and people bitching bout a mask.. were babies Who just weren’t given their bottle .. you just agreed today. Don’t try to change your stances now to look cool in front of your friends .. because then they weren’t your friends to being with .


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> No  I think you confused..you just agreed that wearing  mask was not the apocalypse.. and people bitching bout a mask.. were babies Who just weren’t even their bottle .. you just agreed today. Don’t try to change your stances now to look cool in front of your friends .. because then they weren’t your friends to being with .


Then I interpreted your first post wrong.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What? No! This whole thing was never too severe to begin with.


COVID-19 is now responsible for six out of ten of the deadliest days in US history.  Over 300k will be dead by the end of this year.  But hey, I guess if we're looking on the bright side, a lot of the dead were Trump supporters who believed the virus was a hoax, and that's what won Georgia for Biden.  It might also end up giving Dems control of the Senate.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Then I interpreted your first post wrong.


.. oh I get it you trying to look cool in front of Moron .. look it’s ok   Jesus loves you it doesn’t matter what people say about you in PMs


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> COVID-19 is now responsible for six out of ten of the deadliest days in US history.  Over 300k will be dead by the end of this year.  But hey, I guess if we're looking on the bright side, a lot of the dead were Trump supporters who believed the virus was a hoax, and that's what won Biden Georgia.  It might also end up giving Dems control of the Senate.


Actually...


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Actually...
> View attachment 237970


You didn't refute any part of what I said.  Total deaths from all causes is a different subject entirely.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Actually...
> View attachment 237970


Hey look at me I can copy tweets also https://twitter.com/business/status/1310744108672131074?s=20  We the same expect..  one of us is posting creditable info and the other just quoted Jon Miller .


----------



## wartutor (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Hey look at me I can copy tweets also https://twitter.com/business/status/1310744108672131074?s=20  We the same expect..  one of us is posting creditable info and the other just quoted Jon Miller .


Those numbers are wrong. Most died from heart failure or resporatory problems just labeled as covid deaths. Hospitals get someone that dies and calls it covod related due to money


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

Which is so weird because deaths where the flu was present aren't getting that same metric of treatment.

Also, The combobulated "excess deaths" term is totally misleading.  It's like statistics were reinvented specifically for Covid.  Not saying it isn't a big deal, but the reaction to it is such a huge fucking deal.

But of course, telling people who don't understand logic about math and statistics seems like a lost cause.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

Just look at this chart.  People who have heart disease and/or cancer and dying get labelled as Covid related deaths because Covid is a detectable strain of genetic information that exists.


----------



## smf (Dec 14, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> You haven't "fixed" anything, you just added a level of obfuscation, like most people uncomfortable with the idea of race. I'm not uncomfortable with it at all - Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.



I'm not uncomfortable with race, but as I pointed out scientists refer to DNA being about ancestry than race.

It's not stigma, it's just factually wrong to equate DNA with race because of the vast evidence I've posted here.

You can choose to disagree with all of science if you want.



morvoran said:


> I guess Joe did have "'The Most Extensive And Inclusive Voter Fraud Organization’ In American History" with over 1.95 chinese operatives working around the world to get him "elected".



https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-f...s-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH

_the former vice president is referring to the special litigation team his campaign has launched as it braces for potential legal fights over the outcome of the election 

*VERDICT*
Missing context. This clip of Biden allegedly “admitting” to voter fraud has been shared out of context. As seen in the full interview, the former vice president was discussing his campaign’s voter protection program.

_
Now you can say that reuters are biased to the left wing, but if your proof requires clipping out a small section of a speech and it would give a different opinion if you listened to the whole speech then I kinda think you're the one that is biased.

I guess those 500,000 votes the FBI are "tracking" (whatever that means) are a secret and you can only find out about it on a right wing podcast.

I think it's just too embarrassing to admit.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

smf said:


> I'm not uncomfortable with race, but as I pointed out scientists refer to DNA being about ancestry than race.
> 
> It's not stigma, it's just factually wrong to equate DNA with race because of the vast evidence I've posted here.
> 
> You can choose to disagree with all of science if you want.



Ancestry and Race are two different applications of the same DNA.  One is a form of tracing/linking, and the other is about distinguishable trends.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-f...s-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH



Oh wow.  Fact checking memes now.  Too bad the article didn't do anything to describe how "the voter protection program" works.  Still could be a tool of enabling vote fraud for all we know.  Following sources, it seems like all it is is a bunch of lawyers ready to shut down any contention, despite how righteous or valid a cheat claim might be.  (Like denying signature verification, or shielding the public from damaging Dominion analysis).  It wasn't about "missing context".   In fact, the fact checking provided no additional context.  It reworded everything Biden said to what he was supposed to say--but that's even more misleading. 

So yeah...  "slip of the tongue".  Accidental honesty.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

If Trump isn't able to bring the vote fraud claims to light, America is going to look like China's property. English will matter less and less every day (as if that wasn't already the case), and everyone is going to focus on how to work with China.  Maybe that's good for America, too much pressure has made everyone crazy.

@djpannda will somehow find himself to be even more of a nobody--take his pills and shut up.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

It's okay that you are wrong about something.  It's not okay to pretend that you weren't wrong, as @Xzi does.  That just makes you a scammer.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's okay that you are wrong about something.  It's not okay to pretend that you weren't wrong, as @Xzi does.  That just makes you a scammer.


"I drank five gallons of the kool-aid, so anything negative you have to say about Republicans must be wrong."


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

Republicans are always wrong.  Try again.

You know the saying,"two wrongs don't make a right."?

Well, a lot of people are trying to find the right in a two party system.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Republicans are always wrong.  Try again.


Careful not to break your neck pulling a 180 that quickly.  I'll take any concession I can get from you, though, as I was beginning to think you were even more of a Trump zealot than morvoran.



tabzer said:


> You know the saying,"two wrongs don't make a right."?
> 
> Well, a lot of people are trying to find the right in a two party system.


At this point it's less an issue of right or wrong, more an issue of one of the two parties actively trying to sabotage and destroy democracy in the US.  This isn't at all sustainable, of course, so I'm 100% on board with bringing new political parties to the table, but that will require a switch to ranked choice voting first.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Careful not to break your neck pulling a 180 that quickly



Seems like you are the one making a double-take.  Voting for "not Trump" makes you a tool.  It's better you didn't vote at all so that you could see that someone else voted for you, in 3 states, instead of following the "most convincing liar" and fighting for their narrative.

Everyone here would say it's not evidence, but you'd at least know.


----------



## Espen84 (Dec 14, 2020)

Omg! America the land of the brave and home to the free.

It’s so BS, u might have something u call democracy, but it’s not free or the greatest nation in the world

Your economy is rock bottom. 
You make it so ppl with criminal record can’t vote, because why would the elite have ur poor ass trying to make a difference? It’s more important that privilege white ppl can make more money and stay in power.
Meny states still have the death penalty, like it’s the dark ages!
Ur prisons is over populated, and in so bad shape I would not have my dogs live in this conditions.
You walk around with ur machine guns and cry it’s my right. Buhu! I want my guns, so I can protect my self? Wtf do u have police for? Oh, I forgot, ur police have 6 -9 months training, so u have a bunch if nervous wrecks patrolling the street with guns. And old bullied kids with a rage!
U indoctrinate ur kids, start the day with 
pledge of allegiance to the flag, so they grow up believe that not going to war for the country is freaking non patriotic. Without question ask. U just scream defending my country, but not asking why.

Then u elect this clown, who speak like a grown baby. “ I am the best, nobody do things like me!” Nothing but words, but no one question him. he say rasict things, so it’s great. Then ur allowed to hate again. The world have been watching, and it’s embarrassing!! I don’t think Biden will be the greatest president in USA, but at least it’s not the clown in the White House!. Maybe in 4 year when he runs for president again (if he do) u will not fail the iq test again. The world is watching, don’t make fools of ur self.


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 14, 2020)

Intronaut said:


> hahaha, maybe I used a bad equivalent. In Spanish we say that a sandstorm comes when something like this happens and a lot of angry people start to comment.
> 
> We generally use this image:


that is awesome. here in the USA, we say Sh*tstorm. either way, it is going to be messy, and "the reign of hate" will just continue from the the other side of the political spectrum.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



yusuo said:


> "Joe Biden will become the 46th president of the United States, CNN projects, after a victory in the state where he was born put him over the 270 electoral votes needed to win.
> 
> With Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes, Biden now has a total of 273 electoral votes."
> 
> ...


Election Day is today!!! Only 4 times in our country's history has the Electoral College voted against the popular vote, and the last occasion was to keep Hillary Clinton from taking office. I guess we'll see what the Electoral College has in store for us today!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Magnus87 said:


> My condolences to all Americans.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but Biden is going to make the United States lose power. I know that many are against Trump, he may not have been the best president but he achieved many positive things for the country.
> 
> I am in favor of the alternation of parties, however I consider that it is not the best moment since the North American policies not only influence their own territory but also the rest of the world.


Umm...when you say he did some good things, can you make a list? And are you sure they weren't things that were residual from the previous administration?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Espen84 said:


> Omg! America the land of the brave and home to the free.
> 
> It’s so BS, u might have something u call democracy, but it’s not free or the greatest nation in the world


Little known fact, even most Americans get it wrong all the time. We aren't a democracy. We are a republic. Which is why we have two voting systems for our presidential "leader". Popular vote and the Electoral College, which is a group of elected(?) officials from each state equal to the number of House of Representatives and Senators. On four occasions, the Electoral College has elected a president that was not the Popular vote, the last being Hillary Clinton (if I remember correctly). So if they stomped out the next politically correct box check for president last time, then it is a possibility that Biden could get stomped as well. As for all the other stuff, if you couldn't tell from all the riots and political unrest, the majority of Americans really don't believe they live in the best country in the world or any of that rhetoric. Yeah sure, everyone has some opinion or prejudice against one thing or another, not unlike any other country, but most of them like to learn from other's experiences and improve as best we can. There are a lot of unhappy trolls out there, but not so many that they represent what most Americans believe. Cheers!


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 14, 2020)

Espen84 said:


> Omg! America the land of the brave and home to the free.
> 
> It’s so BS, u might have something u call democracy, but it’s not free or the greatest nation in the world
> 
> ...



Thanks for lumping everyone in the USA into one big steaming pot of dog shit. Are you aware that not all Americans think and act the way you describe, and that the majority that do are Trump supporters? And the bit about "Then u elect this clown..." No, the majority of the people of the USA did NOT vote for this clown. He lost the vote of the people by 3 million votes. So try to catch up on the facts and some realities of the matters you speak of before passing judgement on everyone who lives in this country as if they are all the same. As if you have zero bad people in yours. Not to mention, your post sounds EXACTLY like something a Trumper would say to someone living in a different country. Don't be a fucking hypocrite.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Thanks for lumping everyone in the USA into one big steaming pot of dog shit. Are you aware that not all Americans think and act the way you describe, and that the majority that do are Trump supporters? And the bit about "Then u elect this clown..." No, the majority of the people of the USA did NOT vote for this clown. He lost the vote of the people by 3 million votes. So try to catch up on the facts and some realities of the matters you speak of before passing judgement on everyone who lives in this country as if they are all the same. As if you have zero bad people in yours. Not to mention, your post sounds EXACTLY like something a Trumper would say to someone living in a different country. Don't be a fucking hypocrite.



Ah, @D34DL1N3R is of course exhibit B.  The other poison.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 14, 2020)

smf said:


> I'm not uncomfortable with race, but as I pointed out scientists refer to DNA being about ancestry than race.
> 
> It's not stigma, it's just factually wrong to equate DNA with race because of the vast evidence I've posted here.
> 
> You can choose to disagree with all of science if you want.


The 50-year-old consensus has long been disproven with modern methodology. Gene frequency analysis and gene cluster analysis indicate that not only do biological racial markers exist (Jorde & Wooding, 2004), they also correspond with traditional perceptions of race (Tang & collegues, 2005), sometimes perfectly, sometimes imperfectly depending on the distribution. It's also true that a population's self-identification effectively perfectly aligns with their genetic makeup (Paschou, 2010), which logically they would have no way of knowing beyond a couple generations. The reason why they do is because they know, more or less, where they came from - this is not a shocking revelation. This is further compounded by what's called genetic distance, which increases with geographic distance - an understandable consequence to increased difficulty of migration across natural barriers. When analysed from this angle, you eventually come up with a distribution model that contains five clusters - Africa, Eurasia, East Asia, Oceania, and the Americas (Rosenberg & collegues, 2005). You are more than welcome to disagree with these findings, but to say that geneticists themselves, or I, "disagree with science" is ridiculous. I'm also fine with you calling those results "ancestry", or whatever word you want to use to avoid the word "race", since in real world applications the two are effectively the same.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ah, @D34DL1N3R is of course exhibit B.  The other poison.




I already don't really give two fucks about anything you have to say, so why do you think I would watch some 7+ minute video you posted that is supposedly representative of me? Your own poison on the other hand, needs no video. It's already clear as day. Exhibit Zero would probably be a good name for one though.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> wahh wah.


The video is clearly not about you.  Watching edgy kid chimp out made it worth the confusion though.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Those numbers are wrong. Most died from heart failure or resporatory problems just labeled as covid deaths. Hospitals get someone that dies and calls it covod related due to money


so I see your a follower of facebook news.. because hospitals are not being paid "extra" for Covid patients, as most hospitals have contracts with Insurance to pay certain rates, example $3000 for a ER service no matter what it is for. or 5,000 for every day when hospitalize. I know I'm a troll but I usually say dumb things as a joke.. I do not spread facebook lies that has no bases in fact. 
and yes people died form Respiratory and heart issues ..that stem from Covid. *its just like Garbage people who say people don't die from AIDs and it not a problem... AID itself will not kill you but it lower your immune system soo much that a sneeze or high blood pressure will be fatal. your logic is a joke.    *


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If Trump isn't able to bring the vote fraud claims to light, America is going to look like China's property. English will matter less and less every day (as if that wasn't already the case), and everyone is going to focus on how to work with China.  Maybe that's good for America, too much pressure has made everyone crazy.
> 
> @djpannda will somehow find himself to be even more of a nobody--take his pills and shut up.


oh looks like your coming out of your shell, not only are you upset because people call you out on your bullshit and question your motives. I just find it strange on how "worried you are bout the US becoming China." In the beginning you stated you were impartial world Observer but slowly your like a the 1st phase of a final boss, and now you have fully shown your monstrous face. 
"Trump isn't able to bring the vote fraud claims to light, America is going to look like China's property."
Spoken like a Crazy MAGA. You, my friend, are losing your facade. Trump is not able to Bring fraud claim because there is *no Major Fraud. *This is a lie to steal 200+ millions dollars before Trump Abandoned the White House.

PS. Logically if someone is a "nobody" they can not be "more of a Nobody" that not how the English language works. but its nice to know you are so fraudulent. you want to have the Troll on your Sig because you so full of
Tawagoto,


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> so I see your a follower of facebook news.. because hospitals are not being paid "extra" for Covid patients, as most hospitals have contracts with Insurance to pay certain rates, example $3000 for a ER service no matter what it is for. or 5,000 for every day when hospitalize. I know I'm a troll but I usually say dumb things as a joke.. I do not spread facebook lies that has no bases in fact.
> and yes people died form Respiratory and heart issues ..that stem from Covid. *its just like Garbage people who say people don't die from AIDs and it not a problem... AID itself will not kill you but it lower your immune system soo much that a sneeze or high blood pressure will be fatal. your logic is a joke.    *



Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> Spoken like a Crazy MAGA.



Japan must be pretty MAGA, if that's how you interpret it.  It just seems like you are in denial about Chinese relationship with Biden.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.
> 
> This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.


really 20% SO I can see you also know nothing about Hospital billing. Medicare and Medicaid rates are penny on the dollar compared to Commercial insurances. it say 20% for inpatient not ER.  or Doctor fees  example  Blue shield will pay $5000 for Inpatient per day. Medicare will only pay $500.00. soo 20% is extra 100$ .. its not double, Hospital are not getting rich from Covid. Every Medicare and Medicaid is Losing the Hospital money. now if the US has the save Universal health care as ... lets say Japan this would not even no a talking point

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> because hospitals are not being paid "extra" for Covid patients,





djpannda said:


> really 20%





tabzer said:


> and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.



You could just stop being wrong.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Japan must be pretty MAGA, if that's how you interpret it.  It just seems like you are in denial about Chinese relationship with Biden.


 Love the fact, you have shown yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> You could just stop being wrong.


it funny, too see how you have fallen from someone claiming to devils advocate to a joke..
you see I was suppose to be the joke troll .. not you.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

https://www.aha.org/special-bulleti...us-aid-relief-and-economic-security-cares-act

If you can read difficult words, there are about 120 different incentives that you pretend don't matter or don't exist.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

all you have proven is your lack on understanding of American Healthcare. and it does not matter about your claim that your from Japan for that because Most American do not understand Healthcare.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> all you have proven is your lack on understanding of American Healthcare. and you know have to claim your from Japan for that because Most American do not understand Healthcare.


You made a claim (without source) that is directly contradicted by official sources on the matter.  It has nothing to do with where I'm from.  I can read.  You cannot.  So trust me when I say that you are wrong.


----------



## wartutor (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> so I see your a follower of facebook news.. because hospitals are not being paid "extra" for Covid patients, as most hospitals have contracts with Insurance to pay certain rates, example $3000 for a ER service no matter what it is for. or 5,000 for every day when hospitalize. I know I'm a troll but I usually say dumb things as a joke.. I do not spread facebook lies that has no bases in fact.
> and yes people died form Respiratory and heart issues ..that stem from Covid. *its just like Garbage people who say people don't die from AIDs and it not a problem... AID itself will not kill you but it lower your immune system soo much that a sneeze or high blood pressure will be fatal. your logic is a joke.    *


No i dont do facebook at all i do read and see with my own eyes. I see hospitals label deaths as covid just cause someone tested positive even when they were 90 and died of pneumonia or 300 lbs and died from a heart attack but may of tested positive. Wide spread i doubt it but have hospitals listed some cases to get money probably theres always someone working the system and just so u dont say proof of being paid here is something thats interesting and i dont think you can label it as biased (then again that hasnt stopped u from doing it before) lol  https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The video is clearly not about you.  Watching edgy kid chimp out made it worth the confusion though.



Sorry you were so confused about things. I seemed to have no issues.


----------



## ChaoticCinnabon (Dec 14, 2020)

i saw some alt right idiots on 4chan literally make a CIVIL WAR map because biden won, the cope here is immense


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 14, 2020)

ChaoticCinnabon said:


> i saw some alt right idiots on 4chan literally make a CIVIL WAR map because biden won, the cope here is immense


4chan us just full of trolls and idiots nowadays, back then it was pretty good, but now about civil map thing, nowadays i would not be surpised at all if that was made in 4chan.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Voting for "not Trump" makes you a tool.


So your suggestion for fixing the two-party system is to vote Republican every time?  You're damn straight I voted "not Trump" in 2020, but that doesn't mean I voted for Biden either.



tabzer said:


> It's better you didn't vote at all so that you could see that someone else voted for you, in 3 states, instead of following the "most convincing liar" and fighting for their narrative.


You've probably never voted in the US, so I can forgive your ignorance here, but FYI I would know if somebody else used my voter registration data to attempt to vote an additional time.  I'm only registered in one state, they would need my SSN, address, and other information, and we have state-run websites which track the status of your ballot submission every step of the way.

Just because the candidate you prefer lost doesn't mean our (voting) system isn't working.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> So your suggestion for fixing the two-party system is to vote Republican every time?  You're damn straight I voted "not Trump" in 2020, but that doesn't mean I voted for Biden either.
> 
> 
> You've probably never voted in the US, so I can forgive your ignorance here, but FYI I would know if somebody else used my voter registration data to attempt to vote an additional time.  I'm only registered in one state, they would need my SSN, address, and other information, and we have state-run websites which track the status of your ballot submission every step of the way.
> ...


what you mean that you have to register to vote with proper ID# and SSN? Wait so you are saying a persons voter Id# is logged so that if that ID pops up more then once its flagged.. noo that cant be truth. *Otherwise the Republicans stance on illegal voter is non-existing. * Because Republicans are the ones who processed the voter Registration In Goergia and other states. soo weird.. no ...hey lets not think about it and Just
listen to twitter with memes


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 14, 2020)

Trump and Biden should both be in jail.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ChaoticCinnabon said:


> i saw some alt right idiots on 4chan literally make a CIVIL WAR map because biden won, the cope here is immense


Nobody takes 4chan seriously until it suits their bias.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> You made a claim (without source) that is directly contradicted by official sources on the matter.  It has nothing to do with where I'm from.  I can read.  You cannot.  So trust me when I say that you are wrong.


Dont bother, you will be arguing with people who do nothing but repeat propaganda.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Nobody takes 4chan seriously until it suits their bias.


you got that right Qanon started on 4chan and evolved to this huge shit storm of former Bigfoot conspiracist.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> you got that right Qanon started on 4chan and evolved to this huge shit storm of former Bigfoot conspiracist.


Is it really huge though? I know people like to act like its significant, but it seems to me to be more or less a small fringe group that media loves to talk about.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Is it really huge though? I know people like to act like its significant, but it seems to me to be more or less a small fringe group that media loves to talk about.


Yeah, the media just talks about them to get more viewers and stuff. They just want your money dumbass.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Is it really huge though? I know people like to act like its significant, but it seems to me to be more or less a small fringe group that media loves to talk about.


no matter how "small they seem". they are already wiggled their way in to congress with their tinfoil hats


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Is it really huge though? I know people like to act like its significant, but it seems to me to be more or less a small fringe group that media loves to talk about.


Fringe or not, I'm sure the FBI and NSA takes it very seriously after the Christchurch shooter and others posted "manifestos" there.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> no matter how "small they seem". they are already wiggled their way in to congress with their tinfoil hats


Well part of what they say turned out to be the entire Epstein situation the media doesnt talk about, they do go off the rails with the Alex Jones type ranting though.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Fringe or not, I'm sure the FBI and NSA takes it very seriously after the Christchurch shooter and others posted "manifestos" there.


Yes, there is a lot to look at in a country of 350 million + people.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Well part of what they say turned out to be the entire Epstein situation the media doesnt talk about, they do go off the rails with the Alex Jones type ranting though.


.. the issue is that  crazy brings crazy..  
A Republican Michigan state representative, Gary Eisen, was stripped of his committee assignments by GOP leaders after refusing to rule out that violence would occur in the capital of Lansing related to a “Hail Mary” bid to deny Joe Biden a victory in the presidential election.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> .. the issue is that  crazy brings crazy..
> A Republican Michigan state representative, Gary Eisen, was stripped of his committee assignments by GOP leaders after refusing to rule out that violence would occur in the capital of Lansing related to a “Hail Mary” bid to deny Joe Biden a victory in the presidential election.


Biden shouldn't be president, neither should Trump. Trump is incompetent/dumb and can be talked into anything, Biden is ultra corrupt. Should of been Bernie..


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Biden shouldn't be president, neither should Trump. Trump is incompetent/dumb and can be talked into anything, Biden is ultra corrupt.


oh an Anarchist... ok


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 14, 2020)

kevin corms said:


> Biden shouldn't be president, neither should Trump. Trump is incompetent/dumb and can be talked into anything, Biden is ultra corrupt. Should of been Bernie..


God damn it we got a double score, listen here folk, dont reccomend you stay here for long, or us demos and the republicans are gonna murder you, got it?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> God damn it we got a double score, listen here folk, dont reccomend you stay here for long, or us demos and the republicans are gonna murder you, got it?


I usually vote for the Whigs... There has not been a good President since Fillmore.. NOW That a President !!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 14, 2020)

I'm gonna post this.


----------



## smf (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm gonna post this.



ok? Adding pictures to mock an opposing idea doesn't mean you're right by the way.



kevin corms said:


> Is it really huge though? I know people like to act like its significant, but it seems to me to be more or less a small fringe group that media loves to talk about.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...-or-mostly-true-survey-finds/?sh=5e0838145231


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm gonna post this.
> View attachment 238043


hey lets not make personal attack about Qanon. Im pretty sure all those Alien abuctions "felt real' to them


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 14, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'm gonna post this.
> View attachment 238043


Wow anti-vaxx and anti-mask rolled into one, you really are a special one.

Pretty funny though considering that the first panel is the point most argued by the people that are against it.

Also, it would be a wise idea to continue wearing one so you don't infect others with covid and other diseases as well, but most people aren't advocating that you need to wear one after you have the vaccine, but you like to make up shit so that one is not surprising.

I feel you have earned this reward with all the crap you keep slinging and how you constantly go off-topic/ignore posts when you lose an argument.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19

This is the evidence that nobody is surprised to see.



D34DL1N3R said:


> Sorry you were so confused about things. I seemed to have no issues.


You thought the video was about you.  Lol. That was really dumb and your reaction was funny.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> This is the evidence that nobody is surprised to see.


Ivan Pentchoukov ? Yes Trust the Russian bot .Comrade!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Ivan Pentchoukov ? Yes Trust the Russian bot .Comrade!


Look at the source.  He just highlights some of the key findings, which people like you need to help you understand.  If you want to read the whole report, it is linked in the very first tweet


----------



## smf (Dec 14, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> The 50-year-old consensus has long been disproven with modern methodology.



It appears the proof is regarded as reliable as Trumps proof of voter fraud, because the consensus still appears to be strong.



Foxi4 said:


> I'm also fine with you calling those results "ancestry", or whatever word you want to use to avoid the word "race", since in real world applications the two are effectively the same.



Again they aren't. I'm not sure what your agenda on race is.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Look at the source.  He just highlights some of the key findings, which people like you need to help you understand.  If you want to read the whole report, it is linked in the very first tweet


oh you mean Antrim county which Trump won by 61.1% and had around 16,000 voters completely... yea.. That make a lot of sense...


----------



## smf (Dec 14, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> 4chan us just full of trolls and idiots nowadays, back then it was pretty good



4chan is and always has been a bunch of cruel jerks. If you think that it was ever good means you have been a cruel jerk.



SonowRaevius said:


> but most people aren't advocating that you need to wear one after you have the vaccine



I've not kept up with the evidence, but it's possible that you could transmit the virus even though the vaccine prevents you from getting symptoms. If true then people should continue wearing a mask, unless they are a massive piece of shit. I'm not a massive piece of shit, so I'll continue wearing a mask until the evidence says that I'm not going to kill someone. I'm unlikely to be offered the vaccine for 6 months, so I've got plenty of time to find out.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> This is the evidence that nobody is surprised to see.


Well I'm certainly not surprised to see this is coming from the Epoch Times, but I am surprised to see you're the one using Chinese-owned fake news as a source lmao.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Look at the source.  He just highlights some of the key findings, which people like you need to help you understand.  If you want to read the whole report, it is linked in the very first tweet


Well hot damn 

"State officials are disputing a report on Antrim County's voting equipment — *signed by a consultant who confused Michigan and Minnesota* voting districts in an earlier election analysis "

YUP that is Complete proof of 81millions votes being fake... THROW IT ALL out... I am sure we can trust the Republican stooge that does not know Geography...


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> This is the evidence that nobody is surprised to see.
> 
> ...


you linked a source, that is supposed to look like another source.
Fun. let's go ahead and look at the person who made that tweet.




oh... so he's a reporter from the epoch times... okay. Let's use mediabias fact check



Should I be even suprised?
Now if I recall correctly, @LumInvader  was the one posting images similar to that... let's take a look



At the top we have that red light reported after breaking
now Luminvaders link of tweets regarding trumps failed election lawsuits



huh, oddly mirrors it. as if... perhaps.. this was supposed to mirror it intentionally so people believe it.
Again, you continue to fail to check your own damn sources can you seriously stop boring me.
(image above btw, the one from lumvader is old. it's over 50 losses now)


----------



## morvoran (Dec 14, 2020)

OH SHIT!!!!   Nevada just gave their electoral votes to Trump.  Other battleground states will do the same.   Michigan State police are blocking GOP electors from entering Capital building.  Once they're in, Trump wins Michigan (even though everyone knows he did before the steal happened).  PA and WI will follow.

Trump will be given his rightful win and will have his 4 more years!!!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh you mean Antrim county which Trump won by 61.1% and had around 16,000 voters completely... yea.. That make a lot of sense...



The topic is the "reliability" of Dominion vote machines.


Xzi said:


> Well I'm certainly not surprised to see this is coming from the Epoch Times, but I am surprised to see you're the one using Chinese-owned fake news as a source lmao.



Try knocking the source instead.  The forensic report is the evidence, not the tweet.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> OH SHIT!!!!   Nevada just gave their electoral votes to Trump.  Other battleground states will do the same.   Michigan State police are blocking GOP electors from entering Capital building.  Once they're in, Trump wins Michigan (even though everyone knows he did before the steal happened).  PA and WI will follow.
> 
> Trump will be given his rightful win and will have his 4 more years!!!


I don't think  you know what Electoral voter are ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

IT is official 270 electoral votes... Great!! just 2 more important dates left... Lets see how fast you "Marks" change your goal post to Jan 6th and then Jan 20th ..oh and don't forget to donate another 200 million dollars to TRUmp


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> OH SHIT!!!!   Nevada just gave their electoral votes to Trump.  Other battleground states will do the same.   Michigan State police are blocking GOP electors from entering Capital building.  Once they're in, Trump wins Michigan (even though everyone knows he did before the steal happened).  PA and WI will follow.
> 
> Trump will be given his rightful win and will have his 4 more years!!!


You got prove? Ya dont, the votes went to biden, and biden will come to the oral office on jan 20.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

morvoran said:


> OH SHIT!!!!   Nevada just gave their electoral votes to Trump.  Other battleground states will do the same.   Michigan State police are blocking GOP electors from entering Capital building.  Once they're in, Trump wins Michigan (even though everyone knows he did before the steal happened).  PA and WI will follow.
> 
> Trump will be given his rightful win and will have his 4 more years!!!


No idea where you're getting this information.  I think you might be confusing the official state electors with Trump's electors that only have any real power in your imagination.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> you linked a source, that is supposed to look like another source.
> Fun. let's go ahead and look at the person who made that tweet.
> View attachment 238054
> oh... so he's a reporter from the epoch times... okay. Let's use mediabias fact check
> ...



The source is not the guy tweeting.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> No idea where you're getting this information.  I think you might be confusing the official state electors with Trump's electors that only have any real power in your imagination.


You said it, those electors are fake bois that just want to protest the election even though there is no prove of widespread voter fraud. They would have voted for trump if he win any of those states. But nope, biden won, so he gets the demo votes, so bye trump, your gone, maybe 2024, we all hope not.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

Xzi said:


> No idea where you're getting this information.  I think you might be confusing the official state electors with Trump's electors that only have any real power in your imagination.


LOL any else read that meme with Rodd and Todds  voice ... lol that was funny!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> OH SHIT!!!!   Nevada just gave their electoral votes to Trump.  Other battleground states will do the same.   Michigan State police are blocking GOP electors from entering Capital building.  Once they're in, Trump wins Michigan (even though everyone knows he did before the steal happened).  PA and WI will follow.
> 
> Trump will be given his rightful win and will have his 4 more years!!!


oh and if anyone was questioning if MORONVORAN  was saying anything remotely sane 
*Nevada virtually casts its 6 electoral votes for Biden*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*Michigan congressman announces decision to leave GOP: "This party has to stand up for democracy first"*
 Rat leaving a sinking boot huh ( no disrespect to the Congressman, for doing the right thing for America)


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Try knocking the source instead.  The forensic report is the evidence, not the tweet.


challenge accepted. Don't be sad that I broke you kneecaps in this one.
so the source is https://www.depernolaw.com/
Going to the root, shows us that it's from attorney who's name is  Matthew S. DePerno, Esq.
No issue right?
Well let's look at the website



interesting, so he's claiming that there is evidence, okay, let's go ahead and look at the evidence.


  Questionable plug for a ballot analyzer
but we can scroll down, let's go ahead and scroll down


 
Okay cool he has sources, let's take a look at these sources.
1st one is fox news... Oh boy
Second one is a court filing, court filings don't mean much, since well, if you know anything about the 50+ court cases trump was thrown out of. you can file a case, doesn't mean you get one or have a valid one.
third source is from....
STEVEN CROWDER OH OH BOY


 
FUNNNN
fourth source
links to a website called https://truthout.org/
I already have a funny feeling it's not trust worthy.
Fifth links to whitehouse.gov...
which is trump putting an executive order...
the next is from a website called https://hereistheevidence.com
can't find who owns it. however they have a youtube channel, and joined december 3rd... rather oddly late to the game.
the next is https://mapthefraud.atlassian.net/
requies login. can't find more, name is Natenezz Attack
seems like a alias.
after that is post https://thepostmillennial.com
So, let's now look at all those totally trustworthy news sources. I'll have it my next post since I'm about to hit the image limit likely.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh and if anyone was questioning if MORONVORAN was saying anything remotely sane
> *Nevada virtually casts its 6 electoral votes for Biden*


Only CA and HI left, no faithless electors cast their votes for the loser of their state.  Maybe he's holding out hope that CA's electors will flip to Trump?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> challenge accepted. Don't be sad that I broke you kneecaps in this one.
> so the source is https://www.depernolaw.com/
> Going to the root, shows us that it's from attorney who's name is  Matthew S. DePerno, Esq.
> No issue right?
> ...




Fail again.

My name is Russell James Ramsland, Jr., and I am a resident of Dallas County,
Texas. I hold an MBA from Harvard University, and a political science degree
from Duke University. I have worked with the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA) and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT),
among other organizations, and have run businesses all over the world, many of
which are highly technical in nature. I have served on technical government
panels.
2. I am part of the management team of Allied Security Operations Group, LLC,
(ASOG). ASOG is a group of globally engaged professionals who come from
various disciplines to include Department of Defense, Secret Service,
Department of Homeland Security, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It
provides a range of security services, but has a particular emphasis on
cybersecurity, open source investigation and penetration testing of networks. We
employ a wide variety of cyber and cyber forensic analysts. We have patents
pending in a variety of applications from novel network security applications to
SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) protection and safe browsing
solutions for the dark and deep web. For this report, I have relied on these
experts and resources.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> challenge accepted. Don't be sad that I broke you kneecaps in this one.
> so the source is https://www.depernolaw.com/
> Going to the root, shows us that it's from attorney who's name is  Matthew S. DePerno, Esq.
> No issue right?
> ...


So, fox news



Should I had been surprised?
Okay next is truthout



for once a left leaning one... with mixed score...
Again, for any who are confused. I take issues with sources that have anything below a mostly factual rating. If it's not factual, it goes in the trash. next is post....




--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Fail again.
> 
> My name is Russell James Ramsland, Jr., and I am a resident of Dallas County,
> Texas. I hold an MBA from Harvard University, and a political science degree
> ...


really?



because that's the exact person is that not? 
So your telling me that https://www.depernolaw.com/
isn't Matthew S, deperno


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So, fox news
> View attachment 238065
> Should I had been surprised?
> Okay next is truthout
> ...




You are attacking people who didn't make the report.  It's disingenuous.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Fail again.
> 
> My name is Russell James Ramsland, Jr., and I am a resident of Dallas County,
> Texas. I hold an MBA from Harvard University, and a political science degree
> ...


Lol Tabzer... say it aint soo..  I think you been bamboozled by someone who is a patient in the Burn ward.
*Russell James Ramsland Jr. Pants on Fire  100%*


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are attacking people who didn't make the report.  It's disingenuous.





links to deperno's website.
Deperno is using that as evidence for his website.
It does not matter.
You said to target the source, I did exactly that.
further more



Look who is the one filing it. Attorny's are supposed to say no if something is a frivolous or fraudulent claim


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are attacking people who didn't make the report.  It's disingenuous.


And you're posting fake news that no reputable source has corroborated.  If any of what you're presenting was real evidence, it would've been utilized in at least one of the 57+ court cases filed by Trump's legal team.


----------



## Master X (Dec 14, 2020)

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...try-cast-11-electoral-votes-trump/6536056002/

Fake electors, nice.

If we can't make our election fraud claims stick, lets just try and defraud the EC vote instead!


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 14, 2020)

To Trump and his family:


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

please tell me about how your new Goal post is Jan 6th and how your "alternate Electors" are not Treason because They are "true Americans"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

and Attorney General Barr is out.. soo sad but that what happens when you go against Trump's Papal infallibility


----------



## Xzi (Dec 14, 2020)

djpannda said:


> and Attorney General Barr is out.. soo sad but that what happens when you go against Trump's Papal infallibility


Just goes to show that Trump will throw absolutely anybody and everybody under the bus for his own failures, even the most sycophantic among his appointees.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2020)

If you guys want to try an ad hominem attack, try Russell James Ramsland, Jr. or Allied Security Operations Group.  If you guys want to practice a critical argument talk about the contents of the report.

Talking about the people who would benefit from the report is moot to the actual evidence.


----------



## notimp (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you guys want to try an ad hominem attack, try Russell James Ramsland, Jr. or Allied Security Operations Group.  If you guys want to practice a critical argument talk about the contents of the report.
> 
> Talking about the people who would benefit from the report is moot to the actual evidence.


Well. this happend in some way or form, though:


> He made headlines last year when he suggested during testimony before the House Appropriations Committee that Trump's campaign was spied on, saying he would be looking into the "genesis" of the FBI's counterintelligence investigation that began in 2016 of potential ties between the campaign and the Russian government. He later defended the comment, saying he made it "off the cuff" and that he wasn't using the word "spying" pejoratively.
> Barr had also infuriated Democrats when he took two days after Mueller gave him his probe's findings in March 2019 to announce in a letter that the special counsel "did not find" that any Trump campaign associates coordinated with Russian interference in the election, and that Mueller "did not draw a conclusion -- one way or the other" about whether the President obstructed justice. His pronouncements prompted Trump to proclaim "no collusion" and "no obstruction."
> Mueller objected -- first in a letter to Barr, then in a public statement and again when he testified to Congress last year. Barr's rollout "did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office's work and conclusions" of the report, Mueller said. The special counsel had documented multiple links between Trump campaign officials and Russian government-linked people.
> In an echo of the appointment of Mueller, Barr in early December appointed Connecticut US Attorney John Durham to act as special counsel investigating the 2016 election. The appointment virtually ensured that Durham will keep his investigation and doubled down on one of Trump's longtime infatuations -- that national security and criminal concerns about his campaign and Russia in 2016 sullied the legitimacy of his election and presidency.
> The move left a political bomb ticking for Trump's successor and his new attorney general.


src: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/william-barr-out-as-attorney-general/index.html

Lets not overlook that..


----------



## djpannda (Dec 14, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you guys want to try an ad hominem attack, try Russell James Ramsland, Jr. or Allied Security Operations Group.  If you guys want to practice a critical argument talk about the contents of the report.
> 
> Talking about the people who would benefit from the report is moot to the actual evidence.


ur logic is is laughable as  "practice a critical argument talk about the contents of the report." How much providing creditable source and not people on FIRE.  and then maybe it would be worth arguing about


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> This is the evidence that nobody is surprised to see.
> 
> ...



I didn't even watch the video. Like you said, you're confused. Why am I not surprised?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 15, 2020)

So now that essentially this is over.
It's time to for me to talk about why Biden isn't going to be a good president (he's better than trump. But that's a very low bar to pass)
Most likely, at bare minimum Biden will handle the pandemic better. However, Biden will try to reestablish status quo.To say the least, it's not going to work.
Considering that we have BLM, a eviction crisis, the economy has collapsed (no, stocks aren't the economy) and more and more people are becoming aware of worker issues and non livable wages, we also can expect health care not to be fixed, as Biden said to his investors nothing is going to change. and given trumps 4 years of bullshit regarding climate change, whatever biden has in plan likely will not be good enough, since we should of started changing ages ago more aggressively.
So... effectively, if anyone knows anything about history. Trying to reinstate status quo when everything has been pushed so far past it. Will result in backlash, especially considering tensions.
I highly doubt a civil war will break out. However, I do believe that to some extent a revolution might happen. If you look at history, any time when multiple crisis's hit, and they aren't effectively dealt with in time, and it involves financial classes. (which let's be honest, climate change is not being dealt with because money interest, and the stocks were prioritize over workers who lost jobs to no fault of their own  and almost guaranteed don't have enough for rent or bills in savings) most commonly a revolution breaks out. Already to some extent that's been seen, given how much support BLM has and continues to evolve.


----------



## Ecchi95 (Dec 15, 2020)

I voted for Biden. I'm happy. Trump supporters don't understand that republicans won races on the SAME ballot that Joe Biden won the presidency on.


----------



## chrisrlink (Dec 15, 2020)

the thing i hate the most is how much danger biden and harass might be in I see a e uptick in threats to biden's life and even attempts let's just purge all trump supporers beforee they do something REALLY stupid (too be fair another way that republicans can take controll of the WH and some i bet already know how)


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 15, 2020)

I shouldn't laugh about something so serious, but 


Master X said:


> https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...try-cast-11-electoral-votes-trump/6536056002/
> 
> Fake electors, nice.
> 
> If we can't make our election fraud claims stick, lets just try and defraud the EC vote instead!


 The cope is too high.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> the thing i hate the most is how much danger biden and harass might be in I see a e uptick in threats to biden's life and even attempts let's just purge all trump supporers beforee they do something REALLY stupid (too be fair another way that republicans can take controll of the WH and some i bet already know how)


the secret service is going to have their hands-full but part of me think they are not going to do anything to harm Biden .. as if something happens to Biden, Harris because the new president... and if if there one thing they hate more then Biden is a black Female president.. that would automatic make a lot of "patriots " lose their mind


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I didn't even watch the video. Like you said, you're confused. Why am I not surprised?



That has nothing to do with what I said.  If anything it makes you look desperate for approval.



notimp said:


> Well. this happend in some way or form, though:
> 
> src: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/14/politics/william-barr-out-as-attorney-general/index.html
> 
> Lets not overlook that..



I'm just happy that Dominion evidence is finally surfacing.  Biden should probably go to jail.  IDC if Kamilla is president.  That'd be fun.  Would probably work better than Merkel did for Germany.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ur logic is is laughable as "practice a critical argument talk about the contents of the report." How much providing creditable source and not people on FIRE. and then maybe it would be worth arguing about



This is why literacy is important.

No argument is worth having with you.

Stick to what you are good at: cheerleading, parroting, and trolling.  When you try to have an argument it just makes everyone who likes your comments look stupider.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> OH SHIT!!!!  * Nevada just gave their electoral votes to Trump.*  Other battleground states will do the same.   Michigan State police are blocking GOP electors from entering Capital building.  Once they're in, Trump wins Michigan (even though everyone knows he did before the steal happened).  PA and WI will follow.
> 
> Trump will be given his rightful win and will have his 4 more years!!!


*Fact check*: morvoran is a big fat liar.

*Nevada Electors Award Six Electoral College Votes to Biden*
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...rs-award-six-electoral-college-votes-to-biden


> CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) — *Nevada's six Democratic presidential electors awarded their votes to Joe Biden* on Monday morning, becoming the first slate of electors from a battleground state to cast their votes.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This is why literacy is important.
> 
> No argument is worth having with you.
> 
> Stick to what you are good at: cheerleading, parroting, and trolling.  When you try to have an argument it just makes everyone who likes your comments look stupider.


 then why do you want to make me your Grand Leader?


----------



## RandomUser (Dec 15, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> here's your answerers biden's gonna reverse damage trump did to SSI/DI and even beef it up
> 
> https://joebiden.com/disabilities/#


Thank you for your response. I need help understanding this part in the website:

*Eliminate the “benefit cliff” for SSDI. *Earnings limits under SSDI can discourage people with disabilities from engaging in employment or internship opportunities when they depend on SSDI funds. Biden will increase this limit and phase out this benefit gradually so people with disabilities don’t have to choose between employment and health care.
Does this means that he plans to phase out SSDI itself or phase out the "increased limit"?
If it is going to be the former, that may hurt a lot of people whom actively depends on it and those whom paid into the insurance.
Sorry for the late response.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> No idea where you're getting this information. I think you might be confusing the official state electors with Trump's electors that only have any real power in your imagination.



You might be confused about the fact that the VP (which happens to be Pence) counts the electoral votes on Jan 6th.  He chooses which slate of electoral votes to count.  Hmm, I wonder if he will count the illegitimate Biden votes or the real Trump votes.

Also, it has been rumored that he plans on using a dominion voting systems machine, that Trump's IT specialists have "analyzed", to count them.  This isn't true, but if it was, I know you'd be worried.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You might be confused about the fact that the VP (which happens to be Pence) counts the electoral votes on Jan 6th. He chooses which slate of electoral votes to count.


Lmao, can't wait to see what straw you grasp at once inauguration day has come and gone.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You might be confused about the fact that the VP (which happens to be Pence) counts the electoral votes on Jan 6th.  He chooses which slate of electoral votes to count.  Hmm, I wonder if he will count the illegitimate Biden votes or the real Trump votes.
> 
> Also, it has been rumored that he plans on using a dominion voting systems machine, that Trump's IT specialists have "analyzed", to count them.  This isn't true, but if it was, I know you'd be worried.


Parler? Lol MOVE THAT GOALPOST. 306.306.306. if you say it three times in the mirror. Trump appears and ask for $5..


----------



## morvoran (Dec 15, 2020)

@Xzi  I can't wait for inauguration day as well.......


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> @Xzi  I can't wait for inauguration day as well.......
> 
> View attachment 238091


Yup can’t wait for that on stream live from Florida as he abandons the White House because they threw his shit out.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> @Xzi  I can't wait for inauguration day as well.......


Damn you're that excited for a Biden presidency, eh?  I'm just excited to watch the meltdown from Trump supporters myself.  I thought they'd just lose the once and be done with it, but they keep dragging it out and losing over and over and over and over again.  It's the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> you're that excited for a Biden presidency, eh?


  You mean a Kamala presidency?  You think Biden's kidding, don't ya?



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure these Dominion forensic reports facts were reported on all the main stream media channels.

Weird how Biden won the county on election day, but lost the follow up tabulations with different results each time with the *EXACT SAME BALLOTS. * I'm also sure that all of these were only an issue in one county of Michigan.  No signs of fraud here.  Please keep moving.  Nothing to see here.....  SMH


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Damn you're that excited for a Biden presidency, eh?  I'm just excited to watch the meltdown from Trump supporters myself.  I thought they'd just lose the once and be done with it, but they keep dragging it out and losing over and over and over and over again.  It's the gift that keeps on giving.


You should look at Parlor .. it’s 25% people asking why is news saying Biden won and why is Trump not doing anything ? 25% asking for “Civil War 2” and then 50% are trolls just having a field day. The alt right is in shambles..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> You mean a Kamala presidency?  You think Biden's kidding, don't ya?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man you start sounding like the teacher from peanuts. “Bla bla bla”

 But really. “No God, A BLACK WOMAN President, not in my America” that’s the scare tactic now ? Lol


----------



## DarkKaine (Dec 15, 2020)

It will be interesting to see the results in a few years from now.
Something tells me they'll be all up in muslim countries digging for oil again.
As far as the actual elections go, murica lmao. 325m people and these two clowns are the best you come up with?
It should be illegal to spend fucktons of money on campaigns giving other perhaps not 120 year old people a chance to actually compete in the presidential elections.


----------



## chrisrlink (Dec 15, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> Thank you for your response. I need help understanding this part in the website:
> 
> *Eliminate the “benefit cliff” for SSDI. *Earnings limits under SSDI can discourage people with disabilities from engaging in employment or internship opportunities when they depend on SSDI funds. Biden will increase this limit and phase out this benefit gradually so people with disabilities don’t have to choose between employment and health care.
> Does this means that he plans to phase out SSDI itself or phase out the "increased limit"?
> ...


 pretty sure the latter trump imposed these limits which will be reversed even if he has to use trumps playbook (eecutive order) oh another note i wonder what happens to pence if anything if he refuses to read the results to congress fines?, jail? i cetainly hope the later


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> You mean a Kamala presidency? You think Biden's kidding, don't ya?


No I don't think he's kidding, both Biden and Trump will be drooling potatoes by 2024.  Hopefully she gets a primary challenge from her left, but worse case scenario I have to put up with four years of Harris to get an AOC run in 2028.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> No I don't think he's kidding, both Biden and Trump will be drooling potatoes by 2024.  Hopefully she gets a primary challenge from her left, but worse case scenario I have to put up with four years of Harris to get an AOC run in 2028.


Have you not noticed that Trump is the only president in recent history that looks younger half way through his 2 terms?  He is an "elderly" overweight adult who eats fast food that miraculously survived the deadly covid-19 virus which only has a survivability rate of 99.8%.  He will be fine throughout his possible third term as well.  

Biden, on the other hand, will be lucky to make it to Jan 20th.  I had my doubts he'd make it to election day.  

Speaking of Harris, why hasn't she resigned her senate seat if she is guaranteed the election?  Is she worried to be out of two jobs if she does?  Why did she fist bump Lindsey Graham a couple weeks ago?  Hmm. 

AOC doesn't know what a garbage disposal is.  I doubt she will figure out how to run for president.  The best thing that will happen to her is that she is elected to be a bartender again.  I'm still waiting for her to convince the country to pass a law that bans cow farts.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Have you not noticed that Trump is the only president in recent history that looks younger half way through his 2 terms?  He is an "elderly" overweight adult who eats fast food that miraculously survived the deadly covid-19 virus which only has a survivability rate of 99.8%.  He will be fine throughout his possible third term as well.
> 
> Biden, on the other hand, will be lucky to make it to Jan 20th.  I had my doubts he'd make it to election day.
> 
> ...


You seem to like discrediting  women ... lot ..


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Have you not noticed that Trump is the only president in recent history that looks younger half way through his 2 terms?


He wears a weave and has a shitty orange spray tan, so he looks pretty much exactly like he did at the beginning of his term.  Which is to say: he looks like an old lady obsessed with vanity and her long-lost youth.



morvoran said:


> He is an "elderly" overweight adult who eats fast food that miraculously survived the deadly covid-19 virus which only has a survivability rate of 99.8%.


He had over $100k worth of special treatments that the rest of us wouldn't have access to even if we had the money.  To still keel over after that would've made him the frailest man on Earth.  Not to mention he didn't learn a goddamn thing from catching the virus, which makes him even dumber than Boris Johnson.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> He wears a weave and has a shitty orange spray tan, so he looks pretty much exactly like he did at the beginning of his term. Which is to say: he looks like an old lady obsessed with vanity and her long-lost youth.


  This sounds like something that piece of shit Fredo Cuomo would say.   Are you plagiarizing?   



Xzi said:


> Not to mention he didn't learn a goddamn thing from catching the virus


 Lies. He learned that he no longer needs to wear a mask and is immune now.  Oh... Also, that pussy Fauci is a fraud.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*GOP Electors In All 7 Swing States Cast Votes For President Trump, Opening Way For a 12th Amendment Trump Victory!*

Inb4...  derp, that is just a blog.....  The information is still valid, regardless.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

morvoran said:


> This sounds like something that piece of shit Fredo Cuomo would say. Are you plagiarizing?


Nah I've not heard anyone make that same statement before, and certainly not publicly, though I'm sure plenty of guys have joked about it.



morvoran said:


> Lies. He learned that he no longer needs to wear a mask and is immune now.


*BZZT*, wrong.  Catching the virus has shown to only give you immunity for about two months, as many people have now caught the virus twice.  Knowing Trump though, he'll be one of the first in line for a vaccine while telling all his supporters to not get it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi knows Trump well.  In fact, he even predicted that he'd win the 2016 election.

The only way Xzi knows how Trump is, is because he is as much of a scumbag that he claims of Trump, or it is pure projection.  Either way, Xzi is bad news.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Xzi knows Trump well.  In fact, he even predicted that he'd win the 2016 election.
> 
> The only way Xzi knows how Trump is, is because he is as much of a scumbag that he claims of Trump, or it is pure projection.  Either way, Xzi is bad news.


Where is this even coming from?
I mean I'm not the target of what your saying here. But if I have to ask wtf your talking about, then you've done something wrong. Perhaps your quote was just you pulling shit right out of your ass. I don't know.


Also I find it interesting that you have a clear bone to pick with him, name dropping, but refusing to quote or mention him...
You're truly a piece of work


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Xzi knows Trump well. In fact, he even predicted that he'd win the 2016 election.


I figured he had about a one in three chance of winning, so I wasn't particularly shocked when he did win, just disappointed.



tabzer said:


> Either way, Xzi is bad news.


Bad to the bone, baby.  





monkeyman4412 said:


> Where is this even coming from?


Like all the other members of cult-45, he's tied his entire identity to Trump, so every time I insult Donny boy it feels to tabzer as if I'm insulting him personally.  It's quite pathetic, but unfortunately none of us have the power to break that spell.  He'll probably need a lot of therapy to do that, assuming he can ever admit to himself there's a problem to begin with.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 15, 2020)

*Michigan U.S. Rep. Paul Mitchell leaves Republican Party over 'unacceptable' election claims*
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-leaves-republican-party-michigan/6548940002/


> U.S. Rep. Paul Mitchell of Michigan left the Republican Party on Monday, saying in a letter to officials that it was* "unacceptable for political candidates to treat our election system as though we are a third-world nation and incite distrust of something so basic as the sanctity of our vote."*





> "Steps must be taken, by each state, to audit election results, validate ballots and process and report findings to ensure that every legal vote counts," he said, adding such a process should be undertaken throughout Michigan. *"However, the president and his legal team have failed to provide substantive evidence of fraud or administrative failure on a scale large enough to impact the outcome of the election."*





> "If Republican leaders collectively sit back and tolerate* unfounded conspiracy theories* and 'stop the steal' rallies without speaking out for our electoral process, which the Department of Homeland Security said was* 'the most secure in American history,'* our nation will be damaged," he said.





> "I believe that raw political considerations,* not constitutional or voting integrity concerns*, motivate many in party leadership to support the 'stop the steal' efforts, which is extremely disappointing to me," he added.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> So killing 300k Americans


Freedom isn't murder. COVID was China's fault.



Xzi said:


> stealing millions of their tax dollars


At least we agree that taxation is theft.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *"unfounded"*
> 
> Really though? These theories have been 20 years in the making. It was widely perceived by a significant portion of society that 2016 election was the first time a candidate failed at cheating, giving hope that the corrupt structure of the US could be salvageable for something resembling justice.


See, maybe I'd have the opportunity to be the wrong one in our debates more often, if you just stopped sourcing all your information from Facebook, 4chan, Alex Jones, and other entirely batshit insane outlets.



tabzer said:


> Check the CDC's definition of "excess deaths" as that is only one of a few factors that is completely wrong with that claim.


Yeah blaming him for all 300k deaths is a bit of an exaggeration I suppose, so I'll be generous and say about half of those deaths were preventable.  Meaning Trump is responsible for "only" 150k dead Americans.



UltraSUPRA said:


> At least we agree that taxation is theft.


No I mean he took taxpayer money and literally funneled it into his own personal bank accounts.  His most common method was overcharging the secret service for everything at his clubs and hotels.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yeah blaming him for all 300k deaths is a bit of an exaggeration I suppose, so I'll be generous and say about half of those deaths were preventable. Meaning Trump is responsible for "only" 150k dead Americans.



More research and less talking please.  You are still completely wrong.

CDC has a website.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> More research and less talking please.  You are still completely wrong.


Do you really want me to post sources on what percentage of deaths were preventable?  I wasn't kidding when I said I was being "generous" by assuming 50%.  If anything that was an understatement.

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2020/10/22/covid-19-response-avoidable-deaths/

https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...ed-by-social-distancing-sooner-experts-2020-4

According to epidemiologists and medical experts, 70% to 90% of COVID-19 deaths were preventable had the federal government acted sooner and not undermined the messaging on masking and social distancing.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 15, 2020)

An fake alternative inauguration wouldn't be surprising at this point. 



Xzi said:


> See, maybe I'd have the opportunity to be the wrong one in our debates more often, if you just stopped sourcing all your information from Facebook, 4chan, Alex Jones, and other entirely batshit insane outlets.


But if you don't accept conspiracy theories and bad sources, you are bias.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Do you really want me to post sources on what percentage of deaths were preventable?  I wasn't kidding when I said I was being "generous" by assuming 50%.  If anything that was an understatement.
> 
> https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2020/10/22/covid-19-response-avoidable-deaths/
> 
> ...



If you can tell me what "excess deaths" are, then I'd be willing to continue the conversation and explain exactly what I see wrong with these claims.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



KingVamp said:


> An fake alternative inauguration wouldn't be surprising at this point.
> 
> 
> But if you don't accept conspiracy theories and bad sources, you are bias.



None of my sources were any of the above.  You can shoo now.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If you can tell me what "excess deaths" are, then I'd be willing to continue the conversation and explain exactly what I see wrong with these claims.


I know the definition of the term, but I don't care to provide it, as I couldn't possibly give less of a fuck what your opinion is on the experts' consensus.  So we might as well end the conversation here.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I know the definition of the term, but I don't care to provide it, as I couldn't possibly give less of a fuck what your opinion is on the experts' consensus. So we might as well end the conversation here.



It's clear that you don't care about facts or honest representation then.  Nice bluff though.  Anybody who is interested in facts can go to CDC's website and see what the definition of "excess deaths" are and that it doesn't mean what the media posits it to mean.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's clear that you don't care about facts or honest representation then.


Says the guy who takes Epoch Times seriously.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Says the guy who takes Epoch Times seriously.


I don't.  Bye.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I don't.  Bye.


I've not seen you post any source for any of your claims that wasn't total garbage.  I'm starting to think that being called out for it is some kind of weird fetish for you.  Like non-contact BDSM.

Anyway, g'night.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I've not seen you post any source for any of your claims that wasn't total garbage.  I'm starting to think that being called out for it is some kind of weird fetish for you.  Like non-contact BDSM.
> 
> Anyway, g'night.



I wasn't "called out" on anything.  Just insulted.  Sweet dreams.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/covid-social-distancing.html

Imagine paying for fake facts.  Lol.

Most all news is 90% narrative and 10% fact.  1 fact is given, and then you have 9x of conjecture of "what it probably means"

If people could be critical thinkers, they could dive into any article, and find the "relevent fact" which it talks about, and trace it to the actual source, and try to determine what it means, by itself.

News media is demanding a lot of from people these days.  You have to be able to program now, to see the programming that is being applied.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Where is this even coming from?
> I mean I'm not the target of what your saying here. But if I have to ask wtf your talking about, then you've done something wrong. Perhaps your quote was just you pulling shit right out of your ass. I don't know.
> 
> 
> ...


Because my previous response was removed from view by the admin, I will try a more sensitive approach.  I previously called out Xzi on outright disinformation, and he did nothing to account for or admit his doing so.  People gossip.  It's expected.  But when people make bold statements about the nature of someone, it can only mean that they have an intimate understanding of it.  I question his character because he is not accountable.  At this point, I don't consider him genuine.  Just angsty--probably still guilting his parents.  While I believe that you are excited at the opportunity to be the pretentious voice of righteousness, I still do not think that you are trying to be deceitful.

@AmandaRose and @Xzi, even @SonowRaevius appear to be so angry about something, that they want other people to suffer.

I still have some sort of respect for you and @LumInvader, even though "they" have the inability to look outside of the party-line.


@D34DL1N3R and @djpannda are "walking memes".  I won't mention the people on the other side of the aisle, as I think this thread is overwhelmed by a noisy "majority", and would rather those people to sink or swim on their own merits.  When this thread becomes more favorable to "the right", I will be putting efforts toward the other side.  To me, this is the best way to get closer to "the truth".


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Because my previous response was removed from view by the admin, I will try a more sensitive approach.  I previously called out Xzi on outright disinformation, and he did nothing to account for or admit his doing so.  People gossip.  It's expected.  But when people make bold statements about the nature of someone, it can only mean that they have an intimate understanding of it.  I question his character because he is not accountable.  At this point, I don't consider him genuine.  Just angsty--probably still guilting his parents.  While I believe that you are excited at the opportunity to be the pretentious voice of righteousness, I still do not think that you are trying to be deceitful.
> 
> @AmandaRose and @Xzi, even @SonowRaevius appear to be so angry about something, that they want other people to suffer.
> 
> ...



You forgot your tl;dr: "Nobody likes me. Everybody Hates me. I guess I'll go eat worms."

tabzer needs a hug. Everyone, give tabzer a hug.


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> COVID-19 is now responsible for six out of ten of the deadliest days in US history.  Over 300k will be dead by the end of this year.  But hey, I guess if we're looking on the bright side, a lot of the dead were Trump supporters who believed the virus was a hoax, and that's what won Georgia for Biden.  It might also end up giving Dems control of the Senate.


I didn't realize that these people were telling their votes before their deaths! LMAO That MUST be why Trump didn't win the election!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> More wah wah.



If only you could have personality.

Crushed flowers, at least, smell nice.



Ottoclav said:


> I didn't realize that these people were telling their votes before their deaths! LMAO That MUST be why Trump didn't win the election!



Trump voters are willing their risk their lives to vote.  Biden "supporters" don't exist.  Just a bunch of dominion machines, and bunch of people trying to hit the back button on their remote control.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If only you could have personality.
> 
> Crushed flowers, at least, smell nice.
> 
> ...



You've completely lost it. If you're afraid and unable to call for help on your own, I'm sure plenty of us here at gbatemp can make the call for you. If you want, you can PM me your name, number, and address & I will contact the proper authorities to come get you some help. I know it's scary times. You will get past this. It will all get better. I promise.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

Ah.  Another attempt to be witty by someone with nothing to lose.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ah.  Another attempt to be witty by someone with nothing to lose.



 Hypocrite much? With Biden as President, I have everything to gain. Seems you're the one on the losing side. Bigly.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Hypocrite much? With Biden as President, I have everything to gain. Seems you're the one on the losing side. Bigly.



I can see further into the future than you.  Extra tendies are only temporary.  Explain the hypocrisy.  Seems like a big word for you.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I can see further into the future than you.  Extra tendies are only temporary.  Explain the hypocrisy.  Seems like a big word for you.



No, it seems like a big word for you. You're the one having problems with it. Not me. Ta ta now, kiddo. Enjoy your day. Try smiling for once. You're always so angry and hurting. Perhaps the internets isn't the best place for you right now during your time of great need? Try to find some other activities to take your mind off of this entire thing. I heard color books help a lot of people.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

More imitation, and now with excessive improv.  I'm flattered.

Did you take lessons?

"color books"

Must be a minority.


----------



## notimp (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm just happy that Dominion evidence is finally surfacing.


Link, I want to read it.

All I'm getting currently - is someone uses to the term 'dominion' to manipulate people emotionally..  (Structural manipulation of lets call them 'lax voting mashine security measures' afaik was not proven. Last I have read was, that a team of cyber (got I hate the term being misused by corporate america) forensic experts was allowed access to some of the machines by court order.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19

That was a twitter guy who posted his synopsis of the report.  The actual forensic report is linked in the first post.  There's not a whole lot of departure from what twitter guy says and the findings of the actual report.  Of course it'll take 5 more forensic reports from 5 different firms, reporting the same findings before people just say "it's too late anyway".


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I know the definition of the term, but I don't care to provide it, as I couldn't possibly give less of a fuck what your opinion is on the experts' consensus.  So we might as well end the conversation here.



You know the definition of the term but won't provide it and end the conversation.

Convenient.




D34DL1N3R said:


> Hypocrite much? With Biden as President, I have everything to gain. Seems you're the one on the losing side. Bigly.



Oh, you may have something to gain by being as disposable as BLM, as, after Joe Biden's "victory," they've been trying to contact both him and Harris, yet haven't heard anything in 30+ days.

Tell me what you know about revolutionaries who have successfully toppled governments and those who worked under them and how they were rewarded, and how you think you'll gain from this and how a potential implementation of communism (of which Karl Marx said is the ultimate goal of socialism, so don't give me shit about how it's different) in the United States.




notimp said:


> Link, I want to read it.
> 
> All I'm getting currently - is someone uses to the term 'dominion' to manipulate people emotionally..  (Structural manipulation of lets call them 'lax voting mashine security measures' afaik was not proven. Last I have read was, that a team of cyber (got I hate the term being misused by corporate america) forensic experts was allowed access to some of the machines by court order.



https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> "it's too late anyway".





Ohh...if only people were paying attention to developments...


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> More imitation, and now with excessive improv.  I'm flattered.
> 
> Did you take lessons?
> 
> ...


oh GOD TABZER. sounds like your losing your cool .
Here I have something for you Copeium. Just take two and you can keep Pretending what you say matters at all..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh GOD TABZER. sounds like your losing your cool .
> Here I have something for you Copeium. Just take to and you can keep Pretending what you say matters at all..


I'm good.  Thanks for sounding dumb.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm good.  Thanks for sounding dumb.


lol someone woke up pissy.. what happen? did you not sleep at all or did you have nightmares that Big Bad Biden won....
oh wait that was not a Dream!!! BOO


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> lol someone woke up pissy.. what happen? did you not sleep at all or did you have nightmares that Big Bad Biden won....
> oh wait that was not a Dream!!! BOO


I'm about to go to bed.   I was sincerely thanking you for the reminder that you still exist.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm about to go to bed.   I was sincerely thanking you for the reminder that you still exist.


  no problem subordinate,
as Grand Leader, I command you to go to sleep
and get a snickers because your not you when your hungry .... I mean sleepy,


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2020)

I'm grumpy when I am hungry, I admit.  Good night.


----------



## notimp (Dec 15, 2020)

Sorry - this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/

Is just crazy conjecture.

"68% error rate (what are we talking about computers, what the eff is 'error rate?') means that 68% of votes are sent for bulk adjudication, which means they collect the ballots in a folder. “The ballots are sent somewhere where people in another location can change the vote,” DePerno explained."

Language is important. They are sent to where people can change the votes, means its more than a hypothetical? You have proof for that?

What is this, an effeing deranged magical formula?

"We found 68% error rate" -- error for what?! -- which means bulk adjunction -- "which means computer or people at the other place can change votes"?

What?

Things I want to see in a report like that:

1. What does 68% failure rate mean? Seriously. Dont use that as a trigger term, explain.
2. Dont qualify "what bulk adjunctions means" as that machines or humans can change the vote. What does it mean for the internal voting process? Im sure the description for the people in the voting committee is not 'we do this so machines or people can change the vote later'.
3. if you bring such a statement as a fact and not as a hypothetical (where people or machines could potentially change votes later), then you have proof for that I presume? No?

So all ofh that 'news' is crazy, and I mean crazy, fucking conjecture (someone forcing meaning into a thing, that doesnt mean that thing in the first place).

So is effing 'error rate' to beginn with, if you dont explain - error rate of what? Dont use the term 'error rate' on its own to fish for people rattled by the notion that their democracy is stolen from under their eyes, and make the term itself 'proof' for something that didnt go well.

As said before - if your electoral bodies are too naive to set up a proper democratic election, part of the conclusion is - well I guess, that you arent able to have one. So if someone sees '65% error rate' of something - surely they have a process to deal with that.

Also 'of something' is important as well - what is that?
-

Thats followed by camera shots of paper receipts that show 3 people voting, and then 300 people voting - what is that?

Forget the paper receipts, formulate a story of what has happened here - and lets hear both sides.

Dont push photos to social media, label them scandal, OMG 65% error rate, and then let emotion take over starting from the people that have a suspension of disbelieve even down to the level of someone telling them, everything they see is proof of abuse of the electoral system.
--


Also just for the final part. Lets presume 65% errorrate is a huge scandal. Error rate means proof of manipulation?

I'm from Indian phone support. We are calling from the company Microsoft. Sir, we are calling because you have a problem. Can you open System viewer and look at the error log? See - there is many errors, see, they all are red. This means, that you are being hacked, dear sir. We from the Microsoft Support noticed, and called you. Would you like the 2 or the 5 year support plan, and what is your credit card information?

Uncanny similarities..
--

The point being. Please stop throwing around Smartphone images of paperreceipts and 65% error rate, and 'where machines or humans could change the vote'. Formulate what happened from your point of view. Whole sentences. Congruent stories.

Not just 2-3 Sentence fragments, that all end up at 'we found what we knew was there', sure its not proof, but it proves that something was possible, and then...

And please, stop reading that sh*t at that level.



> “The vote flipped based on the algorithm,” DePerno claims. “It can be done manually or through a machine. We believe it was done through a machine. It’s either a function of the program, or it’s done offsite. My guess is that it was shipped offsite, adjudicated, and then sent back to the system, or it was done internally in the program. It was one of the two,” he explained.


My believe is, that I have a feeling. That is nonsensical?

I mean, what is this. Is this a guided program for 'people with needs' to live out their 'worries', so they can exercise their demons? Is this the legislative system of the most important country in the world.

Dear Judge, something was done, thats our believe. Either in program. Or probably by someone offsite. My guess is, that it was done offsite, or internally in the program - but one of the two, one of the two definitely?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Sorry - this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/
> 
> Is just crazy conjecture.
> 
> ...


your asking the wrong group if you want Real explanation. Most here will just post Parler Headlines and meme. They really don't understand what the the words mean.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

it is funny it says a general "68% error" .. watch it be something pathetic like " Machine used the color Green instead of yellow" or it used a comma instead of a semicolon


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> your asking the wrong group if you want Real explanation. Most here will just post Parler Headlines and meme. They really don't understand what the the words mean.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> it is funny it says a general "68% error" .. watch it be something pathetic like " Machine used the color Green instead of yellow" or it used a comma instead of a semicolon



And you have proven what I have thought about a lot of the people here on this subforum; you don't pay attention to politics, or even know where a lot of the confidence Trump supporters still have in POTUS. If you don't know by this point, you might be in for a rude awakening in the coming weeks.

Just a little heads up from someone who's gonna laugh when Trump not only wins, but starts using the firing squads and puts the DOD that he's cleaned out to good use and the troops returning home from Somalia.

And in the event Biden somehow actually does get inaugurated (and don't think its set in stone; there was an election in the late 1800's in the US where the winner was determined 3 days before inauguration), why is all of the information about Hunter Biden and his laptop (which the New York Post was reporting on back in October, but was censored) suddenly being reported by the MSM?


You're gonna have to face it; Kamala Harris is gonna be the president of the US in that scenario. Oh, and also, we're definitely going to be heading into World War III with China, or be taken over by the nation.



And by the way, @djpannda, two can play that game; most of you guys voting for Biden are doing it because you want free shit; I just got through paying off all of my college loans, partially because I saw the big bill in the future had I went and fully completed a bachelor's degree, but also because you never can know what tomorrow holds; everything was going fine going into 2020 from 2019. Thing is, with the Russia hacking the election story dead in the water, China and the leftists had to come up with a different strategy; tank the economy Trump had built up for the past three years with a virus who's deaths have been overreported, and of whom everyone is being told they must take this particular vaccine for things to return to normal, except not really, because mask mandates will still go on, authoritarian governors in states that initiated the lockdown won't release the tight grip they have on the citizens, and said vaccine seems to be destroying placenta in females according to certain reports.

You can look up this stuff and discover the truth yourself if you want. I'm giving you some attention and putting _you _on the spot. I have made these claims because I have seen and heard people talking and using whatever's left of freedom of expression in this country to get the truth out there. Why the dancing nurses in the Tiktok videos when hospitals were so full to capacity and things so intense that people who wanted to get cancer treatments that they needed were denied said service earlier this year? Why the reports of doctors and nurses getting laid off because of no one going to said facilities at that same time?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> And you have proven what I have thought about a lot of the people here on this subforum; you don't pay attention to politics, or even know where a lot of the confidence Trump supporters still have in POTUS. If you don't know by this point, you might be in for a rude awakening in the coming weeks.
> 
> Just a little heads up from someone who's gonna laugh when Trump not only wins, but starts using the firing squads and puts the DOD that he's cleaned out to good use and the troops returning home from Somalia.
> 
> ...



... lol your sad.. don't forget to take ur pills. you know very well that you start imagining thing when your off your meds.  There are no Men in black waiting to take you up to their space ship and big foot is not real, and the Loc Ness monster was just the shadow of some logs.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

lol doesn't this picture have the same affect to MAGA as sunlight does to Vampires ? Don't they just scatter when they see it or at least start to disinagrate


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ... lol your sad.. don't forget to take ur pills. you know very well that you start imagining thing when your off your meds.  There are no Men in black waiting to take you up to their space ship and big foot is not real, and the Loc Ness monster was just the shadow of some logs.


Shut up @djpannda don't go telling the world the Loch Ness Monster isn't real. Do you have any idea how much tourist money my country makes by scamming gullible Americans into believing that shit


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ... lol your sad.. don't forget to take ur pills. you know very well that you start imagining thing when your off your meds.  There are no Men in black waiting to take you up to their space ship and big foot is not real, and the Loc Ness monster was just the shadow of some logs.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> lol doesn't this picture have the same affect to MAGA as sunlight does to Vampires ? Don't they just scatter when they see it or at least start to disinagrate



I see. How disappointing. No interest in discussion, research, or considering what the other side is saying. Just insults and assumptions...

...almost like Trump without any of the evidence! *smirks*


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> Shut up @djpannda don't go telling the world the Loch Ness Monster isn't real. Do you have any idea how much tourist money my country makes by scamming gullible Americans into believing that shit


lol please, There nothing I can say or do to to Change 47% of American disillusion.. I can show you sonar proof theres nothing in the lake and I can even drain it to show them. but then a Parler/twiiter account will just post "68% error rate on the Sonar machine, that is proof the Nessy is real!"


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> And you have proven what I have thought about a lot of the people here on this subforum; you don't pay attention to politics, or even know where a lot of the confidence Trump supporters still have in POTUS. If you don't know by this point, you might be in for a rude awakening in the coming weeks.
> 
> Just a little heads up from someone who's gonna laugh when Trump not only wins, but starts using the firing squads and puts the DOD that he's cleaned out to good use and the troops returning home from Somalia.
> 
> ...




Triggered much? Sounds like Trumps continual losing is setting some of you guys off more than usual. And "most of you guys voting for Biden are doing it because you want free shit"? Lmfao. That's one of the most dumb things I've heard today and it's still pretty early.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Triggered much? Sounds like Trumps continual losing is setting some of you guys off more than usual. And "most of you guys voting for Biden are doing it because you want free shit"? Lmfao. That's one of the most dumb things I've heard today and it's still pretty early.


oh hell yea Tabzer, at least used to pretend to listen to facts, the last 2 days he has just been coco puff. and others started to post stuff unhinged. Great, first we don't have enough Vaccine for the Rona and now we don't have Enough Copeium for MAGA... this is why we need Universal healthcare. lol


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Triggered much? Sounds like Trumps continual losing is setting some of you guys off more than usual. And "most of you guys voting for Biden are doing it because you want free shit"? Lmfao. That's one of the most dumb things I've heard today and it's still pretty early.



Ah, Saul Alinsky's "accuse the others of which you are guilty," I see. Explain how it's dumb. Give primary sources. I dare you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> oh hell yea Tabzer, at least used to pretend to listen to facts, the last 2 days he has just been coco puff. and others started to post stuff unhinged. Great, first we don't have enough Vaccine for the Rona and now we don't have Enough Copeium for MAGA... this is why we need Universal healthcare. lol



Universal healthcare so, when you break your shoulder and are can't work to provide for yourself, you're put on a waiting list and can't provide for yourself or your family until your surgery in a year? Two years? Possibly longer?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Universal healthcare so, when you break your shoulder and are can't work to provide for yourself, you're put on a waiting list and can't provide for yourself or your family until your surgery in a year? Two years? Possibly longer?


AH I bet your an American that has never left the Country... What do you think  half of Europe, Japan, Australia, Canada. walk around half died waiting for medical care..?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Ah, Saul Alinsky's "accuse the others of which you are guilty," I see. Explain how it's dumb. Give primary sources. I dare you.



Nice deflection attempt, but you're the one who made the statement. Aren't people here all about this burden of proof thing? Give primary sources indicating the majority of anyone voting for Biden only did so because they want free shit. I dare you. Otherwise you know, it makes your initial statement sound pretty dumb.


----------



## Alato (Dec 15, 2020)

Made the mistake of clicking on this thread.

But, just some general advice: you're not going to have a constructive debate with anyone who non-ironically types out _*smirks*_ when they think they're being clever in an internet argument.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

*After weeks of delay, Senate GOP leader McConnell congratulates Joe Biden following Electoral College vote*
***Crack...Crack*** .....the dam is breaking


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> AH I bet your an American that has never left the Country... What do you think  half of Europe, Japan, Australia, Canada. walk around half died waiting for medical care..?


Universal Health Care is terrible especially here in Scotland where absolutely everything is 100% free. Consultations/Operations/medicine/aftercare and anything else you can think of is free on our NHS. The waiting times are terrible when I broke my leg a few years ago I had to wait a whole 4 hours to get my operation. 4 fucking hours how bad is that


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Nice deflection attempt, but you're the one who made the statement. Aren't people here all about this burden of proof thing? Give primary sources indicating the majority of anyone voting for Biden only did so because they want free shit. I dare you. Otherwise you know, it makes your initial statement sound pretty dumb.





He states it as his last proposal. "Lowering costs and expanding health care coverage." Through the federal government? When we're trillions in debt? And do you actually think costs are going to lower? Obama promised the same thing with Obamacare, and look what's happened; you make a trip to the emergency room, and it could come out to costing thousands more dollars if the ER you go to isn't the one your insurance plan covers, not because they don't want to, but because you have taxes, costs, restrictions, and others that get passed down to customers to offset expenses from governments, be it local, state, or federal.

For example, why do game systems cost so much more in other, less fortunate countries? It ultimately comes down to the value of the currency, the real costs of customers buying the systems, games, controllers, etc., and all of the costs that come with importing the system to that country, and if the businesses selling the systems want to make money or break even on the systems, the price will reflect the value of the item on the market. It's part of the reason why a lot of Neo-Geo games like the King of Fighters has, rather infamously, a more Mexican/Brazilian fanbase along with that of whatever support it gets in Japan nowadays; Street Fighter II, and its many different versions back in the day was more expensive, and when one can get an arcade machine that one can easily swap game cartridges in and out of as opposed to how the CPS1 boards were set up (I'm pretty confident they weren't using something like the CPS Charger for CPS1 games iirc), the biggest investment is merely the arcade machines, followed by the games themselves. Companies made their money back on these machines thanks to arcade difficulty being to encourage players to keep putting coins in the machine to continue.

It's the same principal; what might be $500 in the US will be $2000 in Peru, or wherever. That's why, when people say that we have it good here in the US, they really do mean that we have it good as these systems are relatively affordable, when stock isn't dropping like a rock thanks to the supply chain being strained due to fears over a virus that has had so much misinformation about by intention and accident that it's created a situation where trust in institutions of government, especially of the more authoritarian variety, is plummeting.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> He states it as his last proposal. "Lowering costs and expanding health care coverage." Through the federal government? When we're trillions in debt? And do you actually think costs are going to lower? Obama promised the same thing with Obamacare, and look what's happened; you make a trip to the emergency room, and it could come out to costing thousands more dollars if the ER you go to isn't the one your insurance plan covers, not because they don't want to, but because you have taxes, costs, restrictions, and others that get passed down to customers to offset expenses from governments, be it local, state, or federal.
> 
> For example, why do game systems cost so much more in other, less fortunate countries? It ultimately comes down to the value of the currency, the real costs of customers buying the systems, games, controllers, etc., and all of the costs that come with importing the system to that country, and if the businesses selling the systems want to make money or break even on the systems, the price will reflect the value of the item on the market. It's part of the reason why a lot of Neo-Geo games like the King of Fighters has, rather infamously, a more Mexican/Brazilian fanbase along with that of whatever support it gets in Japan nowadays; Street Fighter II, and its many different versions back in the day was more expensive, and when one can get an arcade machine that one can easily swap game cartridges in and out of as opposed to how the CPS1 boards were set up (I'm pretty confident they weren't using something like the CPS Charger for CPS1 games iirc), the biggest investment is merely the arcade machines, followed by the games themselves. Companies made their money back on these machines thanks to arcade difficulty being to encourage players to keep putting coins in the machine to continue.
> 
> It's the same principal; what might be $500 in the US will be $2000 in Peru, or wherever. That's why, when people say that we have it good here in the US, they really do mean that we have it good as these systems are relatively affordable, when stock isn't dropping like a rock thanks to the supply chain being strained due to fears over a virus that has had so much misinformation about by intention and accident that it's created a situation where trust in institutions of government, especially of the more authoritarian variety, is plummeting.



you know you can blab all you want but its still verbal diarrhea  as .. _*"The United States is the only one of the 33 developed countries that doesn’t have universal health care.""   *_ 
but why do you want to Compare Universal healthcare from 3rd world countries. Are you saying American is not a 1st world country? Because if we look at all 1st world countries.... THEY ALL have Universal Healthcare.... its sad when Canada Laughs at our Healthcare System.. CANADA!!!


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

Ottoclav said:


> I didn't realize that these people were telling their votes before their deaths! LMAO That MUST be why Trump didn't win the election!


Well yeah...they were registered Republicans.  Y'all are making me believe I have some sort of superpower just by reporting on observable reality.  



Silent_Gunner said:


> You know the definition of the term but won't provide it and end the conversation.
> 
> Convenient.


It was indeed convenient, he gave me an out and I took it.  After he completely ignored unimpeachable sources on the percentage of COVID-19 deaths which were preventable, I knew there was no point in furthering the conversation.  Why should I care about his opinion on the expert consensus?  It'd be like asking him what his opinion is on the precise inner-workings of the Large Hadron Collider.  He's fucking clueless and his brain has been melted by boomer Facebook conspiracies, like so many other conservatives.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> He states it as his last proposal. "Lowering costs and expanding health care coverage." Through the federal government? When we're trillions in debt? And do you actually think costs are going to lower? Obama promised the same thing with Obamacare, and look what's happened; you make a trip to the emergency room, and it could come out to costing thousands more dollars if the ER you go to isn't the one your insurance plan covers, not because they don't want to, but because you have taxes, costs, restrictions, and others that get passed down to customers to offset expenses from governments, be it local, state, or federal.
> 
> For example, why do game systems cost so much more in other, less fortunate countries? It ultimately comes down to the value of the currency, the real costs of customers buying the systems, games, controllers, etc., and all of the costs that come with importing the system to that country, and if the businesses selling the systems want to make money or break even on the systems, the price will reflect the value of the item on the market. It's part of the reason why a lot of Neo-Geo games like the King of Fighters has, rather infamously, a more Mexican/Brazilian fanbase along with that of whatever support it gets in Japan nowadays; Street Fighter II, and its many different versions back in the day was more expensive, and when one can get an arcade machine that one can easily swap game cartridges in and out of as opposed to how the CPS1 boards were set up (I'm pretty confident they weren't using something like the CPS Charger for CPS1 games iirc), the biggest investment is merely the arcade machines, followed by the games themselves. Companies made their money back on these machines thanks to arcade difficulty being to encourage players to keep putting coins in the machine to continue.
> 
> It's the same principal; what might be $500 in the US will be $2000 in Peru, or wherever. That's why, when people say that we have it good here in the US, they really do mean that we have it good as these systems are relatively affordable, when stock isn't dropping like a rock thanks to the supply chain being strained due to fears over a virus that has had so much misinformation about by intention and accident that it's created a situation where trust in institutions of government, especially of the more authoritarian variety, is plummeting.




None of that proved what you stated. None of it. Notta. Zero. Ziltch.


----------



## wartutor (Dec 15, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Nice deflection attempt, but you're the one who made the statement. Aren't people here all about this burden of proof thing? Give primary sources indicating the majority of anyone voting for Biden only did so because they want free shit. I dare you. Otherwise you know, it makes your initial statement sound pretty dumb.


Was literally one of the 1st things mentioned on the 1st page of this forum.



CompassNorth said:


> https://twitter.com/fittingxivsongs/status/1325117522060914693
> 
> 
> Now hopefully we can get a second round of stimulus checks



Dont take this wrong i could care less just funny it (like everything else) always comes down to money.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Was literally one of the 1st things mentioned on the 1st page of this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> Dont take this wrong i could care less just funny it (like everything else) always comes down to money.





Yo, @D34DL1N3R. Here's your evidence!


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

this one made me laugh... I know what I watching today..


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> this one made me laugh... I know what I watching today..



Or did he? 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OriZeniu...1R4bsvfjo/so-regardless-of-who-hacked-sola/c/


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Yo, @D34DL1N3R. Here's your evidence!



1 random user of GBATEMP, is not proof.. oh wait ... Isn't the reason the US Election a mess because of Simpleton believing Radom peoples post ...


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Or did he?
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/OriZenius/status/1338683712737828864?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1338683712737828864|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://thedonald.win/p/11R4bsvfjo/so-regardless-of-who-hacked-sola/c/


Got something better? Twitter is a shit source.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Or did he?
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/OriZenius/status/1338683712737828864?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1338683712737828864|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://thedonald.win/p/11R4bsvfjo/so-regardless-of-who-hacked-sola/c/


soo sad... "the Mainstream media news lies all time.. but one random ass person on twitter is tell us the truth..."


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> 1 random user of GBATEMP, is not proof.. oh wait ... Isn't the reason the US Election a mess because of Simpleton believing Radom peoples post ...



The fact that one person wants free money and that plenty others do is proof enough. Or do you have no understanding of human nature?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> The fact that one person wants free money and that plenty others do is proof enough. Or do you have no understanding of human nature?


yes I do... people are Gullible.. see post above for proof!!


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Got something better? Twitter is a shit source.



Simple; a raid was conducted on SolarWinds by and the CEO's been arrested by a coordinated effort.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

No Evidence Shows SolarWinds Hack Affected Dominion Voting Systems.
...well thats was awkward 3 mins...


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> yes I do... people are Gullible.. see post above for proof!!



Gullible? If you can get free money legally, and won't suffer repercussions, why not indulge in the gains? That's what the income tax was ultimately about when it was passed in the early 20th century, after all. You should have seen the people lining up for free items being introduced to Walmart a year ago at my store! They kept announcing it over the PA and everything!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> No Evidence Shows SolarWinds Hack Affected Dominion Voting Systems.
> ...well thats was awkward 3 mins...



Ah, calling people conspiracy theorists...totally not rhetoric to paint people in a bad light...


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Simple; a raid was conducted on SolarWinds by and the CEO's been arrested by a coordinated effort.


YOU GOT SOME PROOF? Actual Proof? like a article that is not twitter or your own mouth?


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylenabe...1R4bswE2G/mitch-mcconnell-killed-a-voting-/c/


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Gullible? If you can get free money legally, and won't suffer repercussions, why not indulge in the gains? That's what the income tax was ultimately about when it was passed in the early 20th century, after all. You should have seen the people lining up for free items being introduced to Walmart a year ago at my store! They kept announcing it over the PA and everything!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...








....oh...I think you dropped your tin hat... Hurry before the MLB I starts spying on you


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ....oh...I think you dropped your tin hat... Hurry before the MLB I starts spying on you



Heh, are ad hominems all you got?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1338872337068908545?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1338872337068908545|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://thedonald.win/p/11R4bswE2G/mitch-mcconnell-killed-a-voting-/c/


oh no its starting the Cannibals are eating Each other..That MAGA for you.. and don't know how to post a twitter link.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1338872337068908545?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1338872337068908545|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://thedonald.win/p/11R4bswE2G/mitch-mcconnell-killed-a-voting-/c/


Im not gonna get anything good out of you, right?


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh no its starting the Cannibals are eating Each other..That MAGA for you.. and don't know how to post a twitter link.



Or, that the Republicans and the Democrats are a uniparty now.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Or, that the Republicans and the Democrats are a uniparty now.


im going to pray for you to get better....Amen


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> im going to pray for you to get better....Amen



Pray to your God like the cyclops did in the Odyssey when his eye got stabbed out, and Odysseus' lie that his name was Nobody led to his buddies not coming to help him! XD


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Pray to your God like the cyclops did in the Odyssey when his eye got stabbed out, and Odysseus' lie that his name was Nobody led to his buddies not coming to help him! XD


.. A) you either lost your mind. B) you have been so embarrassed that you deflecting..


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> .. A) you either lost your mind. B) you have been so embarrassed that you deflecting..



Ah, I see you aren't a man of culture.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 15, 2020)

As much as I disagree with someones views that they are posting here respect is due for putting a bit of Homer's Odyssey on the temp.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> .. A) you either lost your mind. B) you have been so embarrassed that you deflecting..


...Really? you didnt get that refernce? This is a gaming website, come on.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> ...Really? you didnt get that refernce? This is a gaming website, come on.


I Did.. but my initial statement stands..


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I Did.. but my initial statement stands..


That was just the oddessy quote though, sure the other comments she/he made would deserve that treatment, but that was just a gameing quote,


----------



## notimp (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> why is all of the information about Hunter Biden and his laptop (which the New York Post was reporting on back in October, but was censored) suddenly being reported by the MSM?


Because it would have created a media frenzy during the elections, that would have overturned these elections, potantially, based on nothing - but family affiliation. To be exact - rumors on the importance of that affiliation.

It would have overloaded peoples 'decisions' with at that point - highly emotional fluff.

But at the same time, the voluntary censorship during the election, has to be 'overturned' at a later stage with people looking into the matter, otherwise the media system would not work. (Should be independent, should be investigative...)

If you remember the thread at the time, some of us had a debate on the question if facebook should be allowed to censor the source out of distribution. And the answer is - probably yes, if it is not relevant to the election in a direct sense -

but would be in a loaded story sense. Essentially where people would 'feel' this is wrong, and vote based on that feeling, and family association.

I know that you'd probably want exactly that - but its not how democracy is supposed to work. You vote for the guy. Not his son, not their business affiliations, not their drug using past, and not them selling their name around for 'access' to their father.

Which is disputed, btw. If the meeting took place, or not. It probably did. That doesnt mean that a sweetheart deal came out of it. And it especially doesnt mean that a sweetheart deal came out of it, that 'will hurt america'.

The logic roughly goes as follows: All the 'country X took over our country, by collusion and blackmail' accusations are generally overblown. This is not how this usually works. Simple reason, if you are Trump (lets take him as an example, but it shouldnt matter - this is regardless of the person in office), and you have children to feed - the 'direct access to the decision structure' becomes instantly more valuable for people in the local business circles, than in the non domestic ones. Its merely a factor of, there would be so many 'US interests' (which is international globalist interests) willing to pay just for access alone, that any money a foreign interest would allocate to bribe a person would become insignificant in return. (There is also high risk related to bribing... And the outcome isnt optimal. You want 'real partnerships' preferably. Those last longer.)

Even when theoreticized as a foreign interest play those that are/may be aiming at that form of gaining influence, usually are low funded, high risk, high reward influence deals. It simply doesnt pay to bet on one person. It pays more to create networks. F.e.

At the same time, media has to remind 'powerstructures' that influence peddling is not ok, that they will still take pride in finding those cases and exposing them.
-

Read up on Vladislav Surkov a little. Even though he is russian, and I dont exactly want to stir up all those tropes again - on the political strategy level its pretty much common at this point to 'play both sides' or just assume that perception is reality.

It would be far too easy to compromise lets say - the son of a future leader of the free world, and then leak incrementing information exactly one and a half weeks before the election, and thus highjack the democratic deliberation process, using highly emotional content - including rumors.

Thats why media decides when to publish a story.

The question to ask is - will it 'endanger the decision structures in my country - if Bidens son got pampered by foreign Industry moguls?' and the likely answer to that is no.

Regardless of how much you scream corruption blackmail - in reality, you can just ignore the blackmail (if done, it would hamper potential relations with a country for quite a long while - especially if the potential became public (like in the Hunter Biden case)) - hence it is always better to try to be buddy buddy with - especially important countries. And in the 'bribes for Hunter' regard - there is much more bribe money left within US moneyed interests to flush out all foreign attempts. And for a person in power it pays much more to cosy up with them, because it gains you a structural advantage in your own country (your friends will be very impressed...) that can birth dynasties, and last for years.

There is never really the danger for the US as a system to be 'bought out' by russia or china.

But there is a very real danger, of being able to release 'highly emotional 'amoral' content' one and a half weeks before an election to manipulate the outcome.

You have to mitigate this. Which is why media can and will delay certain stories. But maybe report on them - even in depth - later. Its just - the timing. The issue cant be 'unrolled' in one and a half weeks. Correct information can not spread throughout your public in one and a half weeks, ... which means, you could manipulate the popolus with the 'emotionality' of content.

The democratic decision process depends on people informing themselves, and then making a decision for what they believe will be best in their lives. If you try to cancel that out with "childmolestor" or "china puppet" - you are circumventing the intended process, if you can do that targeted - thats manipulation.

(Would only work with high emotional content, that would really rile up the public.)
-

Oh, btw - what facebook did there (temporary censorship), might come back into play in a big way in the future again. The EU currently talkes about giving social media companies above 45mio users "gatekeeper" responsibilities again. So they would make them responsible for what is spread on their networks. And I'm not sure I'd oppose that.

The entire notion that - those were just technical entities, that should be free of any responsibility, and 'impartial' on everything, was just not viable.

People need the gatekeeper function. They have no ability to differenciate between important, and sensationalistic (in mass), so its time, that it comes back. Make the decisions transparent - but dont say that they arent needed.

src for the last part: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-unveils-landmark-law-curbing-power-of-tech-giants/a-55939862

Educating people, to become better consumers of news, simply doesnt work to the level where you would be able to handle the emotional impact, of a 'Hunter bought of by foreign interests' story, if seeded one and a half weeks before elections.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Because it would have created a media frenzy during the elections, that would have overturned these elections, potantially, based on nothing - but family affiliation. To be exact - rumors on the importance of that affiliation.
> 
> It would have overloaded peoples 'decisions' with at that point - highly emotional fluff.
> 
> ...



Except that Trump was well on his way to winning either way until things conveniently "stopped" in the middle of the night, and suddenly, a bunch of votes all came in for Biden! And let's not forget the workers trying to keep poll watchers out and cover the windows to buildings, either!

Almost like they got something to hide...


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Except that Trump was well on his way to winning either way until things conveniently "stopped" in the middle of the night, and suddenly, a bunch of votes all came in for Biden! And let's not forget the workers trying to keep poll watchers out and cover the windows to buildings, either!
> 
> Almost like they got something to hide...


Becuase of mail in voters! There come in slowely, and are some of the last vote to count, so, thats why a biden wave came, because of mail in ballots takeing longer to see and come! Jesus, thats one thing almost everyone knows about!


----------



## notimp (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Except that Trump was well on his way to winning either way until things conveniently "stopped"


Trends in vote counting change all the time. Not presidents that were ahead in the first half of the election count, but not during the second half existed in the past.

The narrative was that 70% of the votes in state were counted at one point and Trump was ahead by 'several points' and that that then flipped, and that that 'never happens'. But thats not an argument you hear in democratic elections. You count all the votes.You dont claim you won the trend, and thereby you have won the election.

(The other way around - its possible. You can claim, that you won the election and thereby influence the trend (in reporting at least, or the outcome in the primaries.)


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Trends in vote counting change all the time. Not presidents that were ahead in the first half of the election count, but not during the second half existed in the past.
> 
> The narrative was that 70% of the votes in state were counted at one point and Trump was ahead by 'several points' and that that then flipped, and that that 'never happens'. But thats not an argument you hear in democratic elections. You count all the votes.You dont claim you won the trend, and thereby you have won the election.
> 
> (The other way around - its possible. You can claim, that you won the election and thereby influence the trend (in reporting at least, or the outcome in the primaries.)


However, seems like trump could not infuance that trend, so, he lost.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Becuase of mail in voters! There come in slowely, and are some of the last vote to count, so, thats why a biden wave came, because of mail in ballots takeing longer to see and come! Jesus, thats one thing almost everyone knows about!


Georgia and Pennsylvania congress refused to allow early tabulations ..(even Texas allowed it) so they could not touch it until elections. noo thats too simple of a reason


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Almost like they got something to hide...


Like the identity of the people counting the ballots and the poll watchers themselves?

I mean for fuck's sake, there are already people that are threatening some of the poll watchers, ballot counters, and their families that have had their identities revealed one way or another.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Except that Trump was well on his way to winning either way until things conveniently "stopped" in the middle of the night, and suddenly, a bunch of votes all came in for Biden!


Almost like the people who count all the votes have to eat, sleep, and shit like normal human beings.

And what you say happened isn't even accurate, it took 3-4 days after the election for votes to finish being counted.  Trump never had anywhere near enough states called for him to reach 270, so he was never "on his way to winning" either.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 15, 2020)

djpannda said:


> AH I bet your an American that has never left the Country... What do you think  half of Europe, Japan, Australia, Canada. walk around half died waiting for medical care..?



As opposed to actually dying because you can't afford the healthcare. Imagine thinking your healthcare is anywhere near Canada's. Your countrymen routinely travel to canada for healthcare and to smuggle the free drugs back. Also pretty sure Japan is ranked first in the world for healthcare, and for life span. 

Maybe It's got something to do with them not letting anybody tell them how to live, to change their culture and taking around 4 immigrants a year. Not sure why you even mentioned them tbh, and Europe is a continent not a country. Can't be arsed looking up the rest of them, I guarantee everyone in their right mind would rather get injured in ANY of those countries opposed to the USA though.

In before "lol your sad ... cope harder megalulz"


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

shamzie said:


> As opposed to actually dying because you can't afford the healthcare. Imagine thinking your healthcare is anywhere near Canada's. Your countrymen routinely travel to canada for healthcare and to smuggle the free drugs back. Also pretty sure Japan is ranked first in the world for healthcare, and for life span.
> 
> Maybe It's got something to do with them not letting anybody tell them how to live, to change their culture and taking around 4 immigrants a year. Not sure why you even mentioned them tbh, and Europe is a continent not a country. Can't be arsed looking up the rest of them, I guarantee everyone in their right mind would rather get injured in ANY of those countries opposed to the USA though.
> 
> In before "lol your sad ... cope harder megalulz"


yes.. I agree with you.. Universal Health is needed...and?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 15, 2020)

Tl;dr
lawsuit was a political stunt
_big surprise_


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

shamzie said:


> As opposed to actually dying because you can't afford the healthcare. Imagine thinking your healthcare is anywhere near Canada's. Your countrymen routinely travel to canada for healthcare and to smuggle the free drugs back.


Oi Bernie Sanders, is that you?


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Oi Bernie Sanders, is that you?



Socialised healthcare isn't a bad idea. I don't think I've said anything negative about Bernie Sanders. Infact I admire anybody who can own 3 homes, be a millionaire and never work a day in their life.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Infact I admire anybody who can own 3 homes, be a millionaire and never work a day in their life.


We were talking about Sanders, not Trump, but I do appreciate your candor.


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Well yeah...they were registered Republicans.


Hear that everyone?!! The only people that died from this insufferable disease were Republicans!

Really strange, since the only people I know that have been infected by COVID-19 have been Democrats, but I live in a Blue State in a very Blue Zone, so that is probably to be expected.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



shamzie said:


> Socialised healthcare isn't a bad idea. I don't think I've said anything negative about Bernie Sanders. Infact I admire anybody who can own 3 homes, be a millionaire and never work a day in their life.


I think you mean "labor" a day in their life. But I don't know his personal life at all, so maybe it is really difficult to get in and out of his Audi.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

Ottoclav said:


> Hear that everyone?!! The only people that died from this insufferable disease were Republicans!


That's not at all what I said.  Only that enough Republicans died of COVID-19 in Georgia to flip the state for Biden.

And yes, obviously the anti-mask, anti-social distance crowd did manage to have a much higher infection/death rate than the rest of us.


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> The fact that one person wants free money and that plenty others do is proof enough. Or do you have no understanding of human nature?


I got kids to buy shoes and food for, need gas to shuttle them to appointments, pay insurance and a mortgage! You are totally right, I'll take some redistributed tax dollars to help me out! Human Nature, Baby!!


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

Ottoclav said:


> I got kids to buy shoes and food for, need gas to shuttle them to appointments, pay insurance and a mortgage! You are totally right, I'll take some redistributed tax dollars to help me out! Human Nature, Baby!!


We were one of the only first-world nations to not freeze rent/mortgage during the pandemic, after all.  We're gonna have millions of new homeless people by February if Biden doesn't take some drastic action.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

Ottoclav said:


> I got kids to buy shoes and food for, need gas to shuttle them to appointments, pay insurance and a mortgage! You are totally right, I'll take some redistributed tax dollars to help me out! Human Nature, Baby!!



Weird...it's almost like some people end up working multiple jobs to make ends meet...

...and they don't have time to play video games or indulge in other trivial crap while doing so, which is just the reality of life.


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> We were one of the only first-world nations to not freeze rent/mortgage during the pandemic, after all.  We're gonna have millions of new homeless people by February if Biden doesn't take some drastic action.


As long as Congress works with him. Remember, it isn't the President's actual job to fix any of this. All allocation of funds for any legal action is controlled by Congress. The Senate has a blue majority now, so maybe they'll be able to do something, if it aligns with their interests.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Silent_Gunner said:


> Weird...it's almost like some people end up working multiple jobs to make ends meet...
> 
> ...and they don't have time to play video games or indulge in other trivial crap while doing so, which is just the reality of life.


im replying while at work. Slow day. taking my time and making sure things are done right. Weird how the economy slowing down creates gaps in my work flow.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

Ottoclav said:


> So none of those people in the riots and protests help spike the infection rate?


They probably didn't help, but at least they were outdoors, and there were plenty of protests from both sides of the political divide this year.



Ottoclav said:


> As long as Congress works with him. Remember, it isn't the President's actual job to fix any of this. All allocation of funds for any legal action is controlled by Congress. The Senate has a blue majority now, so maybe they'll be able to do something, if it aligns with their interests.


Dems don't have control of the Senate yet, they have to win both runoff seats in Georgia.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Dec 15, 2020)

Xzi said:


> They probably didn't help, but at least they were outdoors, and there were plenty of protests from both sides of the political divide this year.
> 
> 
> Dems don't have control of the Senate yet, they have to win both runoff seats in Georgia.



"At least they were outdoors?"

6 inches right to social distance at minimum right? Then why were we social distancing then all year? It's OK for them to huddle together, but heaven forbid I go and hug my girlfriend, kiss, and cuddle her?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> "At least they were outdoors?"
> 
> 6 inches right to social distance at minimum right? Then why were we social distancing then all year? It's OK for them to huddle together, but heaven forbid I go and hug my girlfriend, kiss, and cuddle her?


Every individual made their own choices as to whether to follow the experts'/CDC's guidelines or not.  I won't make excuses for other people.  On average, Americans have certainly acted more selfish and childish throughout this pandemic than other first-world nations, which is how we ended up with such ludicrous infection and death rates.

If you trust that your girlfriend isn't currently infected, and hasn't previously been infected by COVID, kiss and cuddle away.  The only restriction on that front is keeping indoor gatherings to ten people or less (depending on which state you're in).


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

*McConnell urged Republican senators not to object when Congress ratifies presidential votes*
look at this traitor ... he just gave up because Biden won..loser


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 15, 2020)

Looks like even Putin doesn't think this election is going to be overturned.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 15, 2020)

notimp said:


> Sorry - this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/
> 
> Is just crazy conjecture.
> 
> "68% error rate (what are we talking about computers, what the eff is 'error rate?') means that 68% of votes are sent for bulk adjudication, which means they collect the ballots in a folder. “The ballots are sent somewhere where people in another location can change the vote,” DePerno explained."


Computers don't make mistakes. Software does


----------



## smf (Dec 15, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> Computers don't make mistakes. Software does



Nope, computers can malfunction and software does what people tell it to (not what they thought they tell it to).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SonowRaevius said:


> I mean for fuck's sake, there are already people that are threatening some of the poll watchers, ballot counters, and their families that have had their identities revealed one way or another.



Yeah, it was so bad for Melissa Carone that she thought she'd deleted her social media because of the threats.



Ottoclav said:


> Hear that everyone?!! The only people that died from this insufferable disease were Republicans!



Not the only people. But republicans are more likely to not wear a mask or believe that covid exists, because they received a transmission from god telling them that.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 15, 2020)

It's very unlikely all of them are malfunctioning though. And yes, the "software does" bit basically extends to human error.


----------



## smf (Dec 15, 2020)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Except that Trump was well on his way to winning either way until things conveniently "stopped" in the middle of the night, and suddenly, a bunch of votes all came in for Biden! And let's not forget the workers trying to keep poll watchers out and cover the windows to buildings, either!



It suspiciously happens in sports games too. You're watching a game and your team scores, but then something fishy happens and the other team scores more points.

Surely if they let my team score first then my team is better than theirs and they shouldn't be able to score after wards!!!!!!



ghjfdtg said:


> It's very unlikely all of them are malfunctioning though. And yes, the "software does" bit basically extends to human error.



One would hope they did enough testing to make sure they don't all malfunction.

If they are connected to the internet then it's possible russia used an exploit to inflate Trumps votes. But fortunately they didn't inflate them enough to change the result of the election.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 15, 2020)

smf said:


> One would hope they did enough testing to make sure they don't all malfunction.
> 
> If they are connected to the internet then it's possible russia used an exploit to inflate Trumps votes. But fortunately they didn't inflate them enough to change the result of the election.


Yeah, these machines should not be connected to the internet. But then again, you can infect the machines through USB sticks as well.

I'm sceptical about the result from 2016 but ultimately we had to accept it. Like we (all) have to accept Biden won this time.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 15, 2020)

*Ron Johnson calls election legitimate and acknowledges Biden victory but still plans hearing on alleged 'irregularities'*
all of a sudden Republican senators do not know how to ride bicycles... because they back peddling


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 15, 2020)

Welp, thats the end to that.


----------



## smf (Dec 15, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> But then again, you can infect the machines through USB sticks as well.



That starts to become tricky, you need to have people on the ground in a lot of places in the US. Those people would be evidence.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

notimp said:


> Sorry - this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/
> 
> Is just crazy conjecture.
> 
> ...



Seeing how Dominion machines work may supplement what the meaning is behind these terms.

https://streamable.com/yzrypo
https://streamable.com/u7nav7


The error rate is the system's ability to process the ballots.  The report gives examples how the same ballots yielded different results and determined a error rate based off of that.  Adjudication is manual editing/override.  Batch adjudication isn't fully explained--but it wouldn't surprise me if the software allows to mass-edits.  Adjudicated ballots should have records, but in the forensic report's case, the 2020 records were missing, but not prior records.

Dominion machines connecting to the internet may allow for remote ajudication, too.  I didn't dive that deep into the report.


Oh I see, you weren't even talking about the forensic report.




tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> That was a twitter guy who posted his synopsis of the report.  The actual forensic report is linked in the first post.  There's not a whole lot of departure from what twitter guy says and the findings of the actual report.  Of course it'll take 5 more forensic reports from 5 different firms, reporting the same findings before people just say "it's too late anyway".



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Silent_Gunner said:


> He states it as his last proposal. "Lowering costs and expanding health care coverage." Through the federal government? When we're trillions in debt? And do you actually think costs are going to lower? Obama promised the same thing with Obamacare, and look what's happened; you make a trip to the emergency room, and it could come out to costing thousands more dollars if the ER you go to isn't the one your insurance plan covers, not because they don't want to, but because you have taxes, costs, restrictions, and others that get passed down to customers to offset expenses from governments, be it local, state, or federal.
> 
> For example, why do game systems cost so much more in other, less fortunate countries? It ultimately comes down to the value of the currency, the real costs of customers buying the systems, games, controllers, etc., and all of the costs that come with importing the system to that country, and if the businesses selling the systems want to make money or break even on the systems, the price will reflect the value of the item on the market. It's part of the reason why a lot of Neo-Geo games like the King of Fighters has, rather infamously, a more Mexican/Brazilian fanbase along with that of whatever support it gets in Japan nowadays; Street Fighter II, and its many different versions back in the day was more expensive, and when one can get an arcade machine that one can easily swap game cartridges in and out of as opposed to how the CPS1 boards were set up (I'm pretty confident they weren't using something like the CPS Charger for CPS1 games iirc), the biggest investment is merely the arcade machines, followed by the games themselves. Companies made their money back on these machines thanks to arcade difficulty being to encourage players to keep putting coins in the machine to continue.
> 
> It's the same principal; what might be $500 in the US will be $2000 in Peru, or wherever. That's why, when people say that we have it good here in the US, they really do mean that we have it good as these systems are relatively affordable, when stock isn't dropping like a rock thanks to the supply chain being strained due to fears over a virus that has had so much misinformation about by intention and accident that it's created a situation where trust in institutions of government, especially of the more authoritarian variety, is plummeting.




Didn't you read what @AmandaRose said?



AmandaRose said:


> Universal Health Care is terrible especially here in Scotland where absolutely everything is 100% free.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 16, 2020)

For now, looks like marriage equality is safe.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> For now, looks like marriage equality is safe.


part of me hope half of the supreme Justices retired the day Biden is sworn in.. lolol


----------



## Master X (Dec 16, 2020)

You know, I'm starting to understand why some Trump supporters are so insistent that he won. They don't want to admit to the fact that they just pissed away a fuck ton of money gambling. Certainly a explanation for how a Biden victory is going to result in people losing their lifes savings.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/12/tr...ds-of-thousands-in-political-betting-markets/

Still, ~36 days left until inauguration. Plenty of time to take out a loan and place another bet or two. Who knows, you could experience so much winning that even Trump himself would be in awe.


----------



## notimp (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Seeing how Dominion machines work may supplement what the meaning is behind these terms.
> 
> https://streamable.com/yzrypo
> https://streamable.com/u7nav7
> ...


Got it. Something went wrong in OCR, so they had to do manual checkups on 65% of ballots. Seems a bit high for a working system, but hey.

So you get two people in a room, one representing every party, and go through the ballots (300 are in question?), and check them by hand.

(Slight problem that you do this based on scans and not on paper ballots (*jesus*) but lets say, not all that bad.)

Next year you throw out the voting system for good please...

Integrity of the vote still preserved.
-

Two comments - no failsafes on 'person voted for two people' is understandable, if you got elections, where more than one 'thing' can be checked per ballot. You want the system to work in that case as well.

No failsafes in case of 'nothing' checked on the ballot is understandable, because - well self explanatory really.

So now your main argument becomes - supervisor can override the votes.

Which means, you trusted the machine more, to get them right, than the humans running the election office? Which is the opposite of what Trumps lawyers said?

So now its not dominions machines changing the votes from Nicaragua, sorry Venezuela, now its the people that actually have to do the vote counting (adjudication) by hand?

Again - some of this comes down to -- 'problem sits in front of screen', and if you are too dumb to have democratic elections. 

Also - the 65% error rate. Really means you should throw out the systems (if nothing was visibly wrong with those ballots). In fact, in general, just throw the stuff out and vote on paper ballets and count manually - then you have less layers that could go wrong, and at least everyone understands whats happening.

---
edit: Also, this:


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

Master X said:


> You know, I'm starting to understand why some Trump supporters are so insistent that he won. They don't want to admit to the fact that they just pissed away a fuck ton of money gambling. Certainly a explanation for how a Biden victory is going to result in people losing their lifes savings.
> 
> https://www.rawstory.com/2020/12/tr...ds-of-thousands-in-political-betting-markets/
> 
> Still, ~36 days left until inauguration. Plenty of time to take out a loan and place another bet or two. Who knows, you could experience so much winning that even Trump himself would be in awe.


I was reading a simlar report.. the lady in England bet around $250,000 on Trump winning ... I think it even said she calling Republicans legislators to have them fight it lol


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Didn't you read what @AmandaRose said?


And once again you edit a quote to take away the actual meaning of what I posted which was


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

AmandaRose said:


> And once again you edit a quote to take away the actual meaning of what I posted which was
> 
> View attachment 238186


I just posted the stupid part.  Everyone knew what you meant.

I didn't "remove meaning".  That's silly.

The government taxes people and then uses that money to pay for the most ridiculous things, like Obama's "hot dog party".  That needs straightening out.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I just posted the stupid part.  Everyone knew what you meant.
> 
> I didn't "remove meaning".  That's silly.



You did remove meaning. The full post incidates that AmandaRose was being sarcastic. Quoting the opening part alone makes it look like they were legitimately saying that universal healthcare is terrible. They meant the exact opposite. 

Also, are you arguing with the actual poster that they meant something different than they said?

What is _wrong _with you?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> You did remove meaning. The full post incidates that AmandaRose was being sarcastic. Quoting the opening part alone makes it look like they were legitimately saying that universal healthcare is terrible. They meant the exact opposite.
> 
> Also, are you arguing with the actual poster that they meant something different than they said?
> 
> What is _wrong _with you?



Lol.  Yeah that makes it look a lot stupider but read what I posted it in response to.

Then tell me what you read from it.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 16, 2020)

Master X said:


> You know, I'm starting to understand why some Trump supporters are so insistent that he won. They don't want to admit to the fact that they just pissed away a fuck ton of money gambling. Certainly a explanation for how a Biden victory is going to result in people losing their lifes savings.
> 
> https://www.rawstory.com/2020/12/tr...ds-of-thousands-in-political-betting-markets/
> 
> Still, ~36 days left until inauguration. Plenty of time to take out a loan and place another bet or two. Who knows, you could experience so much winning that even Trump himself would be in awe.



it's insanity on predictit. like up until last week, it was 83c Biden yes, which is basically free money.

also i love watching trump burn down the GOP on his way out.

*Trump is pocketing Georgia Senate runoff donations for his PAC, while the GOP candidates themselves don't get a dollar*


hell the trumpers are fucking up the GOP everywhere

*'I do not feel safe': Kansas GOP mayor resigns after threats over backing mask mandate*


----------



## Iamapirate (Dec 16, 2020)

Although it makes me feel sick to know a senile old man will be President and a fake as hell ghoulish senator will be his Vice President, I'm at least somewhat at ease knowing midterm elections are historically bad for the incumbent. The amount of buyer's remorse towards this administration will be immense, and I will not be surprised if President to-be Kamala is challenged in the 2024 primary because let's face it - Biden won't run for re-election. I'm guessing resignation in the first two years.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



JaapDaniels said:


> biden already did improve the power of united states by erase the biggest loser of all time.


Just pointing out here Biden has officially lost more presidential elections than Trump.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  Yeah that makes it look a lot stupider but read what I posted it in response to.
> 
> Then tell me what you read from it.



I think the person you were quoting is exceptionally out of their depth when it comes to the relevant knowledge of healthcare economics if their closest point of reference are relative prices for video games across countries.


----------



## notimp (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> I think the person you were quoting is exceptionally out of their depth when it comes to the relevant knowledge of healthcare economics if their closest point of reference are relative prices for video games across countries.


Title: Are most Americans overpaying for health care? A new study says yes — by a lot.
https://www.tampabay.com/health/are...a-new-study-says-yes-x2014-by-a-lot-20190513/


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 16, 2020)

I found this.



 
What are we supposed to do?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> I think the person you were quoting is exceptionally out of their depth when it comes to the relevant knowledge of healthcare economics if their closest point of reference are relative prices for video games across countries.



You could answer the question.  It's a little funny, the removal of context of how I used it to criticize my supposed removal of meaning.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

notimp said:


> Got it. Something went wrong in OCR, so they had to do manual checkups on 65% of ballots. Seems a bit high for a working system, but hey.
> 
> So you get two people in a room, one representing every party, and go through the ballots (300 are in question?), and check them by hand.
> 
> ...





Check the part how the software update caused the machines to change what votes were counted and for who.

"We estimate 1,474 votes changed across the two rolls, between the first and the second time the exact same ballots were run through the County Clerk’s vote counting machine - which is almost the same number of voters that voted in total."

"This demonstrates conclusively that votes can be and were changed during the second machine count after the software update. That should be impossible especially at such a high percentage to total votes cast."


----------



## RandomUser (Dec 16, 2020)

chrisrlink said:


> pretty sure the latter trump imposed these limits which will be reversed even if he has to use trumps playbook (eecutive order) oh another note i wonder what happens to pence if anything if he refuses to read the results to congress fines?, jail? i cetainly hope the later


Ah, yes. Thank you for making it clearer, makes much more sense now.
Only one way to find out is to wait and see, perhaps?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Check the part how the software update caused the machines to change what votes were counted and for who.
> 
> "We estimate 1,474 votes changed across the two rolls, between the first and the second time the exact same ballots were run through the County Clerk’s vote counting machine - which is almost the same number of voters that voted in total."
> 
> ...


Are you serious... If you believe that there was corruption from high above that tampered with the software to change votes from republican to democrat...you got problems man... Why don't you just send Trump all of your hard earned money for his non-existing claims that will lose again in court. Friken conspiracy theories over here...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Are you serious... If you believe that there was corruption from high above that tampered with the software to change votes from republican to democrat...you got problems man... Why don't you just send Trump all of your hard earned money for his non-existing claims that will lose again in court. Friken conspiracy theories over here...



If a president can be corrupt, then why wouldn't be the system that enables corruption be free of it?  The double-standard is already within your comment.

Also Dominion is a private company using closed source code.  A lot smaller than any government, and a lot more susceptible to influence.  It's quite literally a security risk by that metric, alone.

American government didn't become corrupt over night.  It's been happening for decades, with everybody acknowledging it little by little.  It's not miraculously clean just for this election.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If a president can be corrupt, then why wouldn't be the system that enables corruption be free of it?  The double-standard is already within your comment.
> 
> Also Dominion is a private company using closed source code.  A lot smaller than any government, and a lot more susceptible to influence.  It's quite literally a security risk by that metric, alone.



Let's see now... Trump has not only failed in court to show any proof of voting fraud and on top of that let's add on the lawsuits that have been dismissed, withdrawn and or denied. He has racked up over 46 lawsuits that didn't result in anything. So your really going to tell all of us right now that you found proof showing that there was fraud.
Sure thing bud!

Oh and what nerve you have to insinuate that Joe Biden is corrupt... Who the F*ck do you think you are... You think he would have served as vice president for two terms and now become a president if there was any proof of wrong doing on his part. Your really screwed up man.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Let's see now... Trump has not only failed in court to show any proof of voting fraud and on top of that let's add on the lawsuits that have been dismissed, withdrawn and or denied. He has racked up over 46 lawsuits that didn't result in anything. So your relying all of us right now that you found proof showing that there was fraud.
> Sure thing bud!




How many of those cases included Dominion in the suit?  I'll let you count.  Also, get better at English.  It's annoying when people who don't understand words pretend that they have a superior form of logic.



White_Raven_X said:


> Oh and what nerve you have to insinuate that Joe Biden is corrupt... Who the F*ck do you think you are... You think he would have served as vice president for two terms and now become a president if there was any proof of wrong doing on his part. Your really screwed up man.



Lol.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How many of those cases included Dominion in the suit?  I'll let you count.  Also, get better at English.  It's annoying when people who don't understand words pretend that they have a superior form of logic.


And here you go again with your personal attacks because you think you are the best. Go be a teacher if your so good at spelling. 
Oh and btw... Maybe you should read the rules here... Because personal attacks of any kind are not welcome!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> And here you go again with your personal attacks because you think you are the best. Go be a teacher if your so good at spelling.
> Oh and btw... Maybe you should read the rules here... Because personal attacks of any kind are not welcome!



I'm sorry?  Just giving you the respect you offered me.




White_Raven_X said:


> Are you serious... If you believe that there was corruption from high above that tampered with the software to change votes from republican to democrat...you got problems man... Why don't you just send Trump all of your hard earned money for his non-existing claims that will lose again in court. Friken conspiracy theories over here...




As a side note, I am better at it than you.



White_Raven_X said:


> Your really screwed up man.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

@tabzer it's a well known fact that you don't have too many people's respect here, as you always end up attacking them personally and that's just not cool.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> @tabzer it's a well known fact that you don't have too many people's respect here, as you always end up attacking them personally and that's just not cool.



I respect everyone with the respect that they demonstrate.  If you want to try to gang up on me with other illiterate people, go ahead.  It'll only boost my case.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

Anyone know where the "thumbs down" button is?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

Relevant information, because irrelevant person tried to be above.



notimp said:


> Got it. Something went wrong in OCR, so they had to do manual checkups on 65% of ballots. Seems a bit high for a working system, but hey.
> 
> So you get two people in a room, one representing every party, and go through the ballots (300 are in question?), and check them by hand.
> 
> ...





Check the part how the software update caused the machines to change what votes were counted and for who.

"We estimate 1,474 votes changed across the two rolls, between the first and the second time the exact same ballots were run through the County Clerk’s vote counting machine - which is almost the same number of voters that voted in total."

"This demonstrates conclusively that votes can be and were changed during the second machine count after the software update. That should be impossible especially at such a high percentage to total votes cast."


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Relevant information, because irrelevant person tried to be above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go to sleep .. it’s time to go back under your bridge..you can tell your ghost stories to scare little MAGAS, when you wake up





Ps. God bless the new President


----------



## smf (Dec 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> What are we supposed to do?



Not take covid home in the first place, wash hands, wear masks when out etc.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> And here you go again with your personal attacks because you think you are the best. Go be a teacher if your so good at spelling.
> Oh and btw... Maybe you should read the rules here... Because personal attacks of any kind are not welcome!



Where's the personal attack? Seems like good life advice to me. 




UltraSUPRA said:


> I found this.
> View attachment 238202
> What are we supposed to do?



Yeah It's a joke, just another reason to slowly eradicate personal liberties. They'll be in our homes next. Well they already are, who doesn't have a phone connected to the internet.


----------



## notimp (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Relevant information, because irrelevant person tried to be above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, if the case, courts should have a field day. Blessings of technology. People too dumb to count 1474 votes by hand.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 16, 2020)

smf said:


> Not take covid home in the first place, wash hands, wear masks when out etc.


I won't be protecting myself from COVID by wearing a mask. That's not how it works.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I won't be protecting myself from COVID by wearing a mask. That's not how it works.


oh my God ...its not? Are you saying we have been lied to by the DOCTORS.. Doctors who studied Virus and diseases for decades.? the same Doctors and nurses who have been wearing surgical mask for over 100 years? You mean Common sense of how virus work is wrong?....
*I am truly Shocked.*. please share your scientific studies that took multiple of years and  have several different variables and scenarios, a signed peer review by multiple leading doctors in the field.. with that information we can submit to leading scientific journals to expose " mask don't work"
This has to be the BIGGEST medical discovery of the century!! we should of known....


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh my God ...its not? Are you saying we have been lied to by the DOCTORS.. Doctors who studied Virus and diseases for decades.? the same Doctors and nurses who have been wearing surgical mask for over 100 years? You mean Common sense of how virus work is wrong?....
> *I am truly Shocked.*. please share your scientific studies that took multiple of years and  have several different variables and scenarios, a signed peer review by multiple leading doctors in the field.. with that information we can submit to leading scientific journals to expose " mask don't work"
> This has to be the BIGGEST medical discovery of the century!! we should of known....


If you check your box of masks, it'll probably say "will not protect you from COVID". You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect strangers. The problem is that strangers aren't your responsibility.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

.





UltraSUPRA said:


> If you check your box of masks, it'll probably say "will not protect you from COVID". You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect strangers. The problem is that strangers aren't your responsibility.


. wait has your Hypotheses been changed? Have you altered it before your Peer review because if you did not you would have to resubmit your scientific study again with an amendment justifying the change of the theory. Please do so as soon as possible.. make sure it is in AMA Format not MLS, as AMA, American Medical Association is the standard format for medical Theories .and MLS is only HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL . and SUPRA we both know you have done Doctorate level research, please share it.....


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Relevant information, because irrelevant person tried to be above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If your going to post part of a story or article then please add the source so others can read everything and make an educated decision on what they read... Not only the part that you want people to read... How about I do the same with the same article... Here's a portion that I would like to quote:

" Dominion Voting Systems has repeatedly said that its machines cannot switch votes from one candidate or proposition to another.

“All Dominion systems are capable of producing paper records and are 100 percent auditable, with testing, reviews, audits, and recounts subject to oversight and verification by all political parties,” the firm says on its website. “Baseless claims about the integrity of the system or the accuracy of the results have been dismissed by election authorities, subject matter experts and third-party fact-checkers.”

SOURCE: https://mb.ntd.com/over-1400-votes-...michigan-forensics-company-report_540310.html

I would encourage everyone to please not take other people's stories for granted. A quick google has found the article that he is quoting.


I would also encourage anyone interested in this legal fight to read the court fillings put forth in the supreme Court below. This is a pdf of the supreme court fillings. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw258CAOSGMsZzJuCA-EpXob&cshid=1608144073343


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> I would encourage everyone to please not take other people's stories for granted. A quick google has found the article that he is quoting.



The "article" I quoted is the *forensics report *that I have already linked multiple times.  I was continuing a conversation with @notimp and you want to hijack it with your dumb bs.   If you can't be arsed to check the context of a conversation, then it's already evident that you don't care about honest representation or facts.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

Back to the op's topic at hand... Congratulations to Joe Biden, the 46th president of the United States!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

Lol.  That has yet to be seen.  Facts and all.


----------



## ut2k4master (Dec 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you check your box of masks, it'll probably say "will not protect you from COVID". You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect strangers. The problem is that strangers aren't your responsibility.


so you dont want others to wear a mask either to protect you or your family from covid? k


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  That has yet to be seen.  Facts and all.


*Electoral College makes it official: Biden won, Trump lost*

Source:
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-270-electoral-college-vote-d429ef97af2bf574d16463384dc7cc1e


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

How many times, now, has apnews declared Biden the winner?  Unreliable.  We still have to see the reality of his inauguration.


----------



## ut2k4master (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How many times, now, has apnews declared Biden the winner?  Unreliable.  We still have to see the reality of his inauguration.


whats the next goalpost after inauguration?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How many times, now, has apnews declared Biden the winner?  Unreliable.  We still have to see the reality of his inauguration.


yea the first 1st to the 4th were just a joke..
Damn the MSM can fool you.... Now the tenth time is real this time..







Ps. God bless the new President[/QUOTE]


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> whats the next goalpost after inauguration?


I never shifted my goalpost.  But it's true that if Biden does become president, that these arguments probably will still continue.

I mean, he can't be president before he is president.  That has always been the case.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I never shifted my goalpost.  But it's true that if Biden does become president, that these arguments probably will still continue.


You can't have an argument if one side refuses to engage.  After inauguration the crazies are just going to be put on ignore, so to speak.  Which is actually the polite thing to do when you consider the alternative is telling them, "fuck your feelings," or, "facts don't care about your feelings."


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I never shifted my goalpost.  But it's true that if Biden does become president, that these arguments probably will still continue.
> 
> I mean, he can't be president before he is president.  That has always been the case.


that is soo true ... Come on people, President-elect is a term that the LEFT   just made up this year. The US never ever call a person President-elect before...  Remember Trump wasn't even call President until Feb 4 2017.....


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You could answer the question.  It's a little funny, the removal of context of how I used it to criticize my supposed removal of meaning.



I answered the question.


----------



## smf (Dec 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> If you check your box of masks, it'll probably say "will not protect you from COVID". You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect strangers. The problem is that strangers aren't your responsibility.



Actually there is evidence that masks do protect yourself too. Of course you're better wearing a mask and only being around other decent people who also wear a mask. If you can't wear a mask because of a real medical condition (rather than an imaginary one that people lie about) then you unfortunately need to be more careful, but then you should be used to that because of your health condition will be quite limiting already.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-face-masks-actually-protect-me-or-just-those-around-me/

I've never seen "will not protect you from COVID" on any box.

A stranger is just a friend you haven't met, there is nothing to stop you protecting each other.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> that is soo true ... Come on people, President-elect is a term that the LEFT   just made up this year. The US never ever call a person President-elect before...  Remember Trump wasn't even call President until Feb 4 2017.....



I never said any of that.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I never said any of that.


..oh I just thought because you presenting fake and misleading information ..that I would also... sorry I misunderstood.. are you saying only you can present that or can anyone?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> I answered the question.


Don't be a coward.  The question is: how does @AmandaRose 's stupid quote read when posted in response to that other thing you described?

You guys want to "wah wah" all the time and not be accountable for your own actions.



djpannda said:


> ..oh I just thought because you presenting fake and misleading information ..that I would also... sorry I misunderstood.. are you saying only you can present that or can anyone?


I've not done that either.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ..oh I just thought because you presenting fake and misleading information ..that I would also... sorry I misunderstood.. are you saying only you can present that or can anyone?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I've not done that either.


.. no...... I think you might be confused...  Do you know what day of the week it is? Do you where you are or your name? ... IS there someone I can call to pick you up?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

notimp said:


> Sorry - this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sent-mass-adjudication-giving-individuals-ma/
> 
> Is just crazy conjecture.
> 
> ...



Seeing how Dominion machines work may supplement what the meaning is behind these terms.

https://streamable.com/yzrypo
https://streamable.com/u7nav7


The error rate is the system's ability to process the ballots. The report gives examples how the same ballots yielded different results and determined a error rate based off of that. Adjudication is manual editing/override. Batch adjudication isn't fully explained--but it wouldn't surprise me if the software allows to mass-edits. Adjudicated ballots should have records, but in the forensic report's case, the 2020 records were missing, but not prior records.

Dominion machines connecting to the internet may allow for remote ajudication, too. I didn't dive that deep into the report.


Oh I see, you weren't even talking about the forensic report.




tabzer said:


> https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482?s=19
> 
> That was a twitter guy who posted his synopsis of the report. The actual forensic report is linked in the first post. There's not a whole lot of departure from what twitter guy says and the findings of the actual report. Of course it'll take 5 more forensic reports from 5 different firms, reporting the same findings before people just say "it's too late anyway".



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Silent_Gunner said:


> He states it as his last proposal. "Lowering costs and expanding health care coverage." Through the federal government? When we're trillions in debt? And do you actually think costs are going to lower? Obama promised the same thing with Obamacare, and look what's happened; you make a trip to the emergency room, and it could come out to costing thousands more dollars if the ER you go to isn't the one your insurance plan covers, not because they don't want to, but because you have taxes, costs, restrictions, and others that get passed down to customers to offset expenses from governments, be it local, state, or federal.
> 
> For example, why do game systems cost so much more in other, less fortunate countries? It ultimately comes down to the value of the currency, the real costs of customers buying the systems, games, controllers, etc., and all of the costs that come with importing the system to that country, and if the businesses selling the systems want to make money or break even on the systems, the price will reflect the value of the item on the market. It's part of the reason why a lot of Neo-Geo games like the King of Fighters has, rather infamously, a more Mexican/Brazilian fanbase along with that of whatever support it gets in Japan nowadays; Street Fighter II, and its many different versions back in the day was more expensive, and when one can get an arcade machine that one can easily swap game cartridges in and out of as opposed to how the CPS1 boards were set up (I'm pretty confident they weren't using something like the CPS Charger for CPS1 games iirc), the biggest investment is merely the arcade machines, followed by the games themselves. Companies made their money back on these machines thanks to arcade difficulty being to encourage players to keep putting coins in the machine to continue.
> 
> It's the same principal; what might be $500 in the US will be $2000 in Peru, or wherever. That's why, when people say that we have it good here in the US, they really do mean that we have it good as these systems are relatively affordable, when stock isn't dropping like a rock thanks to the supply chain being strained due to fears over a virus that has had so much misinformation about by intention and accident that it's created a situation where trust in institutions of government, especially of the more authoritarian variety, is plummeting.




Didn't you read what @AmandaRose said?



AmandaRose said:


> Universal Health Care is terrible especially here in Scotland where absolutely everything is 100% free.


----------



## smf (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Come on people, President-elect is a term that the LEFT just made up this year.The US never ever call a person President-elect before...  Remember Trump wasn't even call President until Feb 4 2017.....



Not true.

https://web.archive.org/web/2018112...t-donald-trump-election-year-hacking-i-russia

JANUARY 11, 2017
*Road to the White House 2016*
*President-Elect Donald Trump News Conference*

President-elect Donald Trump held his first news conference since July 2016 and the November election. He covered a wide range of issues,

https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...span.org/video/?283210-1/obama-speech-economy

JANUARY 8, 2009
*Obama Speech on the Economy*

President-Elect Barack Obama talked about the economy at the Center for the Arts of George Mason University. He said that only government could address


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Seeing how Dominion machines work may supplement what the meaning is behind these terms.
> 
> https://streamable.com/yzrypo
> https://streamable.com/u7nav7
> ...


dang ... I think Tabzer when senile.. ::::LOUD VOICE... I THINK YOU POSTED THAT ALREADY. DO HAVE SOMEONE TAKING CARE OF YOU? ::::... (Some times they forget stuff)


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

smf said:


> https://www.c-span.org/video/?421482-1/president-elect-donald-trump-election-year-hacking-i-russia
> 
> JANUARY 11, 2017
> *Road to the White House 2016*
> ...



Yeah, it was sarcasm directed at me because he thinks I had issue with calling Biden President-elect.  I don't care about that title.  I understand why people were upset about calling him that when his opposition hasn't conceded, but I never took that on myself.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> dang ... I think Tabzer when senile.. ::::LOUD VOICE... I THINK YOU POSTED THAT ALREADY. DO HAVE SOMEONE TAKING CARE OF YOU? ::::... (Some times they forget stuff)


I did but @White_Raven_X took issue with me not posting it again, even though he could have traced to it via the quote-link system.  He is so lazy!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 16, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> so you dont want others to wear a mask either to protect you or your family from covid? k


Looking at the survival rate, I'm willing to take my chances.


smf said:


> A stranger is just a friend you haven't met, there is nothing to stop you protecting each other.


I guess I'll go get some candy from that guy with the white van.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I did but @White_Raven_X took issue with me not posting it again, even though he could have traced to it via the quote-link system.  He is so lazy!


::: NOOO @White_Raven_X NOT TAKING CARE OF YOU....
(God Bless their little soul when they get like this)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> I guess I'll go get some candy from that guy with the white van.


YES Please do.....


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 16, 2020)

@tabzer I've been looking into most of your posts on GBATEMP and it seems you enjoy to "stir the pot" apparently because you enjoy arguing or having people against you. I'm sorry but I will no longer entertain your waste of time and pure ignorance for information that is commonly available online regarding this particular topic. I do not support conspiracy theories neither.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Don't be a coward.  The question is: how does @AmandaRose 's stupid quote read when posted in response to that other thing you described?
> 
> You guys want to "wah wah" all the time and not be accountable for your own actions.



That's a different question, no need to get huffy just because your ability to communicate is inadequate.

AmandaRose's quote (the full quote, not the bit you cherry picked) reads like a strong refutation of the Silent_Gunner quote.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> That's a different question, no need to get huffy just because your ability to communicate is inadequate.
> 
> AmandaRose's quote (the full quote, not the bit you cherry picked) reads like a strong refutation of the Silent_Gunner quote.


It's not a different question. It was the only question presented.  If you think there was a different question, I'd be happy to help you read it.


----------



## smf (Dec 16, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I guess I'll go get some candy from that guy with the white van.



There is a middle ground. You don't have to go from one extreme to another, that isn't how rational people behave.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> @tabzer I've been looking into most of your posts on GBATEMP and it seems you enjoy to "stir the pot" apparently because you enjoy arguing or having people against you. I'm sorry but I will no longer entertain your waste of time and pure ignorance for information that is commonly available online regarding this particular topic. I do not support conspiracy theories neither.



*Forensic reports* are conspiracy theories?


Maybe we wouldn't be so ignorant if our sources didn't keep changing the story?


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's not a different question. It was the only question presented.  If you think there was a different question, I'd be happy to help you read it.



Let's review:



tabzer said:


> Lol.  Yeah that makes it look a lot stupider but read what I posted it in response to.
> 
> Then tell me what you read from it.



The way this question reads, you were asking what I thought of the Silent_Gunner quote.



tabzer said:


> Don't be a coward.  The question is: how does @AmandaRose 's stupid quote read when posted in response to that other thing you described?
> 
> You guys want to "wah wah" all the time and not be accountable for your own actions.



The way this question reads, you were asking what I thought of AmandaRose's quote in the context of the Silent_Gunner quote.

See? Two different questions.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> The way this question reads, you were asking what I thought of the Silent_Gunner quote.



Ok, I see the misunderstanding.  That's not how the question reads.  It=subject of contention.  The subject of "it" doesn't change.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *Forensic reports* are conspiracy theories?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yes <blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/nHQmk1Y" data-context="false" ><a href="//imgur.com/a/nHQmk1Y"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> Yes <blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/nHQmk1Y" data-context="false" ><a href="//imgur.com/a/nHQmk1Y"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Nice!


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ok, I see the misunderstanding.  That's not how the question reads.  It=subject of contention.  The subject of "it" doesn't change.



So you threw a hissy fit because you were sloppy with your pronoun usage?

Well, at least you are getting closer to answering _my_ question:



kingaz said:


> What is _wrong _with you?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nice!


 sorry .. @tabzer should know how flimsy Russian propaganda is!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> So you threw a hissy fit because you were sloppy with your pronoun usage?
> 
> Well, at least you are getting closer to answering _my_ question:



I find your "concern" to be scoff-worthy because it's a contradiction.  You are accusing me of doing something.  But the only way you can make an accusation is by doing the same thing.

You are bad at reading.

My pronoun usage was consistent.  Lol.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I find your "concern" to be scoff-worthy because it a contradiction.  You are acusing me of doing something.  But the only way you can make an accusation is by doing the same thing.
> 
> You are bad at reading.



Given how you forgot a verb (it _is _a contradiction) and misspelled "accused," I think that the more obvious explanation here is that you are bad at writing.

Also, given how I am accusing (remember, two c's) you of quoting someone out of context and throwing a hissy fit because you write poorly, please point out where I did either of those things.

I'll wait.



tabzer said:


> My pronoun usage was consistent.  Lol.



Your pronoun (it) had multiple antecedents (the two different quotes). That is not proper pronoun usage.


----------



## smf (Dec 16, 2020)

So Trump may not be moving to Mar-a-lago either....

https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...im-to-live-elsewhere/articleshow/79761812.cms

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000015a-99cf-dcd4-a5ff-bdefa9050001

Does that make him homeless?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

smf said:


> So Trump may not be moving to Mar-a-lago either....
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...im-to-live-elsewhere/articleshow/79761812.cms
> 
> ...


im sure. Poppa Putin would take them.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> please point out where I did either of those things.



*You are saying that I removed meaning, and made @AmandaRose 's quote appear to be genuinely against healthcare.  But I used part of her quote as a sarcastic response implying taxes don't matter when considering the notion of everything being *%100* *absolutely free*.  Nobody who was apart of the conversation would think, at any point, that Amanda is against universal healthcare.

There was only one subject of contention.  Why do you think I care about what you thought about SilentGunner's argument?  Are you intentionally being obtuse?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 16, 2020)

Now it's official. Congrats, I guess.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are saying that I removed meaning, and made @AmandaRose 's quote appear to be genuinely against healthcare.  But I used part of her quote as a sarcastic response implying taxes don't matter when considering the notion of everything being *%100* *absolutely free*.  Nobody who was apart of the conversation would think, at any point, that Amanda is against universal healthcare.
> 
> There was only one subject of contention.  Why do you think I care about what you thought about SilentGunner's argument?  Are you intentionally being obtuse?


you really seem to have a personal Vendetta for AmandaRose... LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE HAS A CRUSH...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

Don't be jealous.  I love you too.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You are saying that I removed meaning, and made @AmandaRose 's quote appear to genuinely against healthcare.  But I used part of her quote as a sarcastic response implying taxes don't matter when considering the notion of everything being *%100* *absolutely free*.  Nobody who was apart of the conversation would think that, at any point, that Amanda is against universal healthcare.
> 
> There was only one subject of contention.  Why do you think I care about what you thought about SilentGunner's argument?  Are you intentionally being obtuse?



Given that we have established that you are a sloppy writer, how on earth could I (or anyone else) divine what you wanted from me, let alone what your overall point was?

You are the only one who could figure out that you were making some sarcastic non-sequitur point about taxes when using AmandaRose's quote, because you are the only one who knows your own thoughts and intentions. So unless you're deliberately trying to communicate in ciphers, you may want to actually take the time to explain yourself instead of calling other people cowards and generally coming off as an obnoxious fool.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> You are the only one who could figure out that you were making some sarcastic non-sequitur point about taxes when using AmandaRose's quote



No.  It only required looking at the *context *of how it was used.  That made the nature of your contention (and Amanda's), ironic.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No.  It only required looking at the *context *of how it was used.  That made the nature of your contention (and Amanda's), ironic.



If you can't even bother giving pronouns a singular antecedent, how on earth are you going to manage the comparatively complex task of properly contextualizing your statements? 

You're not fooling anyone.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> If you can't even bother giving pronouns a singular antecedent, how on earth are you going to manage the comparatively complex task of properly contextualizing your statements?
> 
> You're not fooling anyone.



The context was there.  You just ignored it to accuse me of doing the same thing.  But yeah, you can make the argument about my sloppy writing.  Strawman is a backup option, it would appear.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The context was there.  You just ignored it to accuse me of doing the same thing.  But yeah, you can make the argument about my sloppy writing.  Strawman is a backup option, it would appear.



The context wasn't there. You left it out of your post. That's the whole point.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> The context wasn't there. You left it out of your post. That's the whole point.


I don't think he knows how to troll properly yet... but don't be too hard on him.. He's trying ..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> The context wasn't there. You left it out of your post. That's the whole point.


The context was the ongoing conversation.  The only way you are able to interpret the quote to read amanda to suggest that she was against universal healthcare is if you read that one line, all by itself, in its own vacuum. Even then, it appears as a contradiction by itself and cannot be read as a conclusive statement.  You ignored what it was posted in response to.  The way you mean there was no context is a misdirection, ignoring the context that the quote was applied.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I don't think he knows how to troll properly yet... but don't be too hard on him.. He's trying ..



If we don't teach him, how will he learn?

Granted, he has yet to demonstrate the capacity to learn, but I try to be an optimist.



tabzer said:


> The context was the ongoing conversation.  The only way you are able to interpret the quote to read amanda to suggest that she was against universal healthcare is if you read that one line, all by itself, in its own vacuum. Even then, it appears as a contradiction by itself and cannot be read as a conclusive statement.  You ignored what it was posted in response to.  The way you mean there was no context is a misdirection, ignoring the context that the quote was applied.



Given how a participant in this conversation called you out for quoting out of context, this argument fails to be even slightly convincing. Much like the arguments of Trump's legal team in contesting the election.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> Given how a participant in this conversation called you out for quoting out of context, this argument fails to be even slightly convincing. Much like the arguments of Trump's legal team in contesting the election.



So Amandrose believes that she was speaking against universal healthcare?  Or she believes that I am trying to convince silentgunner she is against universal healthcare?  She too, ignored the context of how it was applied.

She wasn't genuinely concerned either way.  Just looking for reasons to be upset about nothing.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So Amandrose believes that she was speaking against universal healthcare?  Or she believes that I am trying to convince silentgunner she is against universal healthcare?  She too, ignored the context of how it was applied.
> 
> She wasn't genuinely concerned either way.  Just looking for reasons to be upset about nothing.



AmandaRose quite clearly communicated that you were misquoting her to make it look like she was against universal healthcare.

So when you are upset about something, other people should be able to read your intentions (in spite of your sloppy writing), but when other people express that they object to what you say, they are "upset over nothing?"


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So Amandrose believes that she was speaking against universal healthcare?  Or she believes that I am trying to convince silentgunner she is against universal healthcare?  She too, ignored the context of how it was applied.
> 
> She wasn't genuinely concerned either way.  Just looking for reasons to be upset about nothing.


..._*ok I apologized to everyone*_.. I wanted to give him a chance on Trolling  but damn.. this is sad..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

kingaz said:


> AmandaRose quite clearly communicated that you were misquoting her to make it look like she was against universal healthcare.



Which is dumb because she didn't look at the context.  Again, it's ironic that she couldn't bother. (/s)



kingaz said:


> So when you are upset



I don't come here because I'm upset, lol. 

I will concede that I sometimes write sloppily for a variety of reasons, but there has been no miscommunication.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 16, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Which is dumb because she didn't look at the context.  Again, it's ironic that she couldn't bother. (/s)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What the f$%k you talking about?
 you stopped  making sense like 10 post ago...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2020)

djpannda said:


> What the f$%k you talking about?
> you stopped  making sense like 10 post agian...


I know what you are trying to say, and I disagree.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

This is funny.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Which is dumb because she didn't look at the context.  Again, it's ironic that she couldn't bother. (/s)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You didn't give any context to look at. 

Also, the extent to which you double down, project, and throw insults all while arguing in defense of a (soon to be former) president who does the very same indicates that you are quite upset. 

Finally, saying there has been "no miscommunication" is just obviously wrong. You do realize that communication requires at least two people, yes? Because you have *repeatedly* failed to make your meaning clear, and then acted confused and hostile when other people haven't deciphered what you were thinking.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This is funny.View attachment 238331



Donald trumps highest approval rating EVER was 49% (2020-01-29, 2020-02-16, 2020-03-22, 2020-04-28, 2020-05-13).

Joe Biden has a higher approval rating than trump ever did, without even being sworn in yet.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

kingaz said:


> You didn't give any context to look at.


Then where did you get this idea that I misquoted someone from?  It was taken from somewhere.


kingaz said:


> Also, the extent to which you double down, project, and throw insults all while arguing in defense of a (soon to be former) president who does the very same indicates that you are quite upset.



Where did that happen?  Context please.




kingaz said:


> Finally, saying there has been "no miscommunication" is just obviously wrong.



Your intention is clear and my intention was clear.  We aren't going to agree.


----------



## kingaz (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Then where did you get this idea that I misquoted someone from?  It was taken from somewhere.



When you quoted the first sentence of a post while leaving the rest out, changing its meaning. In other words, the thing I first responded to you about.



tabzer said:


> Where did that happen?  Context please.



Just about every single thing you've posted ever would probably qualify, but for a fairly recent example:



tabzer said:


> Don't be a coward.  The question is: how does @AmandaRose 's stupid quote read when posted in response to that other thing you described?
> 
> You guys want to "wah wah" all the time and not be accountable for your own actions.
> 
> ...



Everything you've written is recorded here, so even though you apparently have the memory of a goldfish, pretending that haven't been making a fool of yourself for what appears to be literal weeks on end isn't going to work either.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

kingaz said:


> When you quoted the first sentence of a post while leaving the rest out, changing its meaning. In other words, the thing I first responded to you about.



Yes.  And the fact that it was presented as a response to something specific is the context, which you decided to reject.



kingaz said:


> Just about every single thing you've posted ever would probably qualify



False.



kingaz said:


> Everything you've written is recorded here, so even though you apparently have the memory of a goldfish, pretending that haven't been making a fool of yourself for what appears to be literal weeks on end isn't going to work either.



That has nothing to do with the president.  Being a coward your perogative.  Amanda saying stupid things and being a hypocrite is her perogative.  So if those things are insulting to you, then maybe you would consider the behaviors, themselves, to be the infractions.



AmandaRose said:


> Universal Health Care is terrible especially here in Scotland where absolutely everything is 100% free.





kingaz said:


> I think the person you were quoting is exceptionally out of their depth when it comes to the relevant knowledge of [...] economics



Honesty would look good on you, imo.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 17, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Donald trumps highest approval rating EVER was 49% (2020-01-29, 2020-02-16, 2020-03-22, 2020-04-28, 2020-05-13).
> 
> Joe Biden has a higher approval rating than trump ever did, without even being sworn in yet.


I think even a pet rock could get 52%.  It's like I was telling tabzer previously, Trump never had the consent of the governed to begin with, or throughout his entire presidency.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Trump never had the consent of the governed to begin with, or throughout his entire presidency.


He couldn't be bought.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 17, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> He couldn't be bought.


By big poor?  Because he stole their tax dollars and continues to grift his supporters of donation money to "stop the steal," aka "pay for my future personal defense fund."  And big rich gave him plenty of money to gut regulations, allow more drilling for oil on federal lands, etc and so forth x1000.  But by the third or fourth year of his presidency, even some of them were starting to hate him.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> I think even a pet rock could get 52%. It's like I was telling tabzer previously, Trump never had the consent of the governed to begin with, or throughout his entire presidency.



I guess he had the consent of enough people in the right places, and the American government-but only about %28 of eligible voters.  Apparently 10 million more people voted this year, and he gained votes... so take whatever you will from that.



Xzi said:


> Because he stole their tax dollars



How did he steal tax dollars?


----------



## morvoran (Dec 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> By big poor? Because he stole their tax dollars and continues to grift his supporters of donation money


  Hmm, that sounds very familiar.....  where did I hear that from before????

Oh yeah:

*Bernie Sanders Raised $16 Million From the Unemployed*

I guess Bernie supporters were giving him their unemployment checks in the hopes he would give them "free" money.  Whatever happened to all that donation money?  Did it go to buy his 4th home?  No, the "payoff money" from the DNC to quit running paid for that.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How did he steal tax dollars?


He overcharged secret service at his hotels and properties, for entrance, for food and drinks, for everything.  Congress had to pass a funding extension for the secret service in Trump's first two years IIRC.  His inaugural committee alone stole $1 million for him and Ivanka.  There's more, but I'd have to dig it up and I don't feel like it right now.

(Oh, the wall of course, of which he built two new miles and pocketed the rest of the emergency use authorization money.)



morvoran said:


> Whatever happened to all that donation money?


What wasn't spent on the campaign was donated to charity, and then he did several charity fundraisers even after he was out of the race.  Only "charity" Trump would do that for is the Trump foundation, which was shut down for fraud.  Hell, Trump Jr. used it to steal from children with cancer.  Not a great look.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> He overcharged secret service at his hotels and properties, for entrance, for food and drinks, for everything. Congress had to pass a funding extension for the secret service in Trump's first two years IIRC. His inaugural committee alone stole $1 million for him and Ivanka. There's more, but I'd have to dig it up and I don't feel like it right now.
> 
> (Oh, the wall of course, of which he built two new miles and pocketed the rest of the emergency use authorization money.)



I guess I'll have to take your word for it.  Oh, btw, did you know that the 2020 election is a complete scam?


----------



## morvoran (Dec 17, 2020)

Xzi said:


> What wasn't spent on the campaign was donated to charity, and then he did several charity fundraisers even after he was out of the race. Only "charity" Trump would do that for is the Trump foundation, which was shut down for fraud. Hell, Trump Jr. used it to steal from children with cancer. Not a great look.


  Any sources to back that up?

Also, I keep getting your Leaders mixed up as you are all commies.  I guess we are talking about Biden here:
*Biden asks for money for presidential transition, told to go to OnlyFans instead*

Asking for donations to cheat and steal this election wasn't enough, he had to ask his sheep (or uninformed voters as they're usually called) to tighten their belts more to pay for transition money during a pandemic when Pedocrat states/cities are forcing small businesses to stay closed when there is already a transition fund, but greedy people are also very impatient (well, considering Biden is on borrowed time, I guess I can understand a little).


----------



## omgcat (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How did he steal tax dollars?



intentionally dragging the Secret service and others to his properties, and charged more than the normal rate while he did it?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Any sources to back that up?



trump has a history of grifting with charities.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/201...ed-2-million-illegally-using-trump-foundation

*How Donald Trump Shifted Kids-Cancer Charity Money Into His Business*

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ald-trump-bought-with-20000-from-his-charity/

"The Washington Post has reported other instances in which Trump may have violated those rules. He used $258,000 from the foundation to pay off legal settlements that involved his for-profit businesses. He spent $12,000 from the charity's coffers to buy a football helmet signed by then-Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow.


And he spent $10,000 to buy another portrait of himself in 2014. In that case, Trump paid $10,000 for the portrait. It was later found hanging on the wall of a sports bar at Trump's Doral golf resort. A spokesman for Trump, Boris Epshteyn, said later that Trump's business was actually just "storing" the portrait, on the charity's behalf. Tax experts said that does not cut it."


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

omgcat said:


> intentionally dragging the Secret service and others to his properties, and charged more than the normal rate while he did it?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...




Spending tax dollars on stupid shit should be infuriating.  But considering that politicians (both those elected and not elected) have been spending so much more, for so long, doesn't it make his behavior to look like trolling?  Trump spends $10,000K on a portrait of himself and "donate" it to a sportsbar.  It really seems like he is making fun of the political establishment.  I suppose that it is possible that he feels like that's all he can get away with.  But why?  Because he's narcissistic and poor, but more importantly narcissistic?

Regarding the Cancer charity there is this: there is more evidence of a fraud election occurring in 2020.  What's the standard of proof here?  I'm not saying that it's impossible that he did it.  He may have.  But what's more important at this point?  Is there evidence of a fraud election, or is there not?  Can we apply this same logic to these articles that have even more ambiguous sources of evidence?  It just seems like Trump would turn into such a great guy if the evidence was equally evaluated across the spectrum.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

If evidence was equally evaluated the new narrative would shift into,"Trump is great, but we just (really really) prefer Biden".


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 17, 2020)

smf said:


> That starts to become tricky, you need to have people on the ground in a lot of places in the US. Those people would be evidence.


Yes, that's tricky but not impossible. Air gaping these machines and blocking all their USB ports should be good enough.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 17, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Any sources to back that up?
> 
> Also, I keep getting your Leaders mixed up as you are all commies.  I guess we are talking about Biden here:
> *Biden asks for money for presidential transition, told to go to OnlyFans instead*
> ...


wait? how much have you donated to keep Trump president.... $200million plus... oh ok that worked great .. im sure hell be president for a 2nd term ... keep giving money that will work

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Any sources to back that up?
> 
> Also, I keep getting your Leaders mixed up as you are all commies.


*Donald J. Trump Pays Court-Ordered $2 Million For Illegally Using Trump Foundation Funds*
Ouch Your lack of knowledge post did not age well for that those 2 hours


----------



## kingaz (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes.  And the fact that it was presented as a response to something specific is the context, which you decided to reject.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There you go again, misquoting things to change the meaning (I was referring to Silent_Gunner's quote, not AmandaRose's), deflecting, insulting, and pretending that you haven't been making a fool of yourself. I can see why you identify with the president, given your inability to engage honestly with others or admit to your own behavior. Just like Trump pretends that he's brilliant and loved and that evil people are out to "steal" the election, you deny all reality to convince yourself that you cannot possibly be wrong, and that everyone else is out to get you.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 17, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Any sources to back that up?
> 
> Also, I keep getting your Leaders mixed up as you are all commies.  I guess we are talking about Biden here:
> *Biden asks for money for presidential transition, told to go to OnlyFans instead*
> ...


Jesus your blind, your are a sheep. This is all false, like, give something else other then this. Eitherway, your probarly gonna get banned because of left mods in here, so reccomend you shut your brainwashed mouth to yourself.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 17, 2020)

*Dominion threatens defamation lawsuit over Sidney Powell's election conspiracy theories: 'You are not entitled to your own facts'


"Dominion has never provided machines or any of its software or technology to Venezuela, nor has it ever participated in any elections to Venezuela," the letter, obtained by Insider, said. "It did not receive $400 million from the Chinese in the weeks before the 2020 election. It has no ties to the Chinese government, the Venezuelan government, George Soros, Bigfoot, or the Loch Ness Monster."
lolol it seems like the Dominion lawyer is on Gbatemp and follows me lolol*


----------



## tabzer (Dec 17, 2020)

How convenient that they list everyone except Hugo Chavez and the Clinton Foundation.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 17, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How convenient that they list everyone except Hugo Chavez and the Clinton Foundation.


and Jesus, Budda, Hitler, and Ghandi... yup .... Tabzer is right ...Budda stole The Election


----------



## morvoran (Dec 17, 2020)

To further celebrate Joe Biden's stolen "victory" over Trump, I found this montage of some of his most inspiring quotes.  I'm sure a lot of you would have voted for Joe a 5th or 6th time the morning after election day if you were aware of these.   Some, I'm sure, were already aware and this is the reason for voting.  I'm sure you were thinking, "I don't want to live in an urban jungle, either."  Well, chances are, he will end Trump's prison reform bill (look it up as I'm 99% positive you aren't aware of it) and reissue his 1994 crime bill as a 2021 crime EO.  (I'd say just wait and see, but he won't ever get the chance.)

Start the video at 2:12 if it doesn't already:


----------



## djpannda (Dec 17, 2020)

morvoran said:


> To further celebrate Joe Biden's stolen "victory" over Trump, I found this montage of some of his most inspiring quotes.  I'm sure a lot of you would have voted for Joe a 5th or 6th time the morning after election day if you were aware of these.   Some, I'm sure, were already aware and this is the reason for voting.  I'm sure you were thinking, "I don't want to live in an urban jungle, either."  Well, chances are, he will end Trump's prison reform bill (look it up as I'm 99% positive you aren't aware of it) and reissue his 1994 crime bill as a 2021 crime EO.  (I'd say just wait and see, but he won't ever get the chance.)
> 
> Start the video at 2:12 if it doesn't already:



Im glad to see you have accepted the election and acknowledge your new president   And in case you were not embarrassed  enough



morvoran said:


> Any sources to back that up?
> 
> Also, I keep getting your Leaders mixed up as you are all commies.


*Donald J. Trump Pays Court-Ordered $2 Million For Illegally Using Trump Foundation Funds*


----------



## morvoran (Dec 18, 2020)

Xzi said:


> Yeah, I suppose there are those who fall for Chinese-funded disinformation campaigns such as the Epoch Times. I'm betting you're among them. Me, not so much.


  You know there are other sources of news that aren't the Epoch Times, which is a non-biased news channel.  You are just confused as they are not just Pedocrat shills.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 18, 2020)

morvoran said:


> the Epoch Times, which is a non-biased news channel


LMAO okay Xinnie the Pooh's bitchboy.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 18, 2020)

Xzi said:


> LMAO okay Xinnie the Pooh's bitchboy.


 Just like a pedocrat to accuse a Trumpican of doing/being what they do/are.

Ok, I was confused about WTF you were talking about, so I had to look this up.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/nbc-news-gets-its-facts-about-the-epoch-times-wrong-again_3558902.html

(I'll take a play out of your side's book.)  See here???  The Epoch Times says you are wrong and here's my proof.  Try again, Commie. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Turns out that the SCOTUS denied to hear Texas' case against the battleground states due to the fact that the CCP got to John Roberts and made him violently yell at the other justices to not take that case.  Such a shame that anybody can be bought or blackmailed and lose all their values/morals.

It is being reported as him and the other soy loving liberal justices feared antifa rioting:
*Report: SCOTUS Chief Justice John Roberts Folded on Texas Election Fraud Case Due to Fear of ANTIFA Pushback *


For the brainlets on here who have a hard time reading, here is a video that should help explain the situation for you:


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 18, 2020)

morvoran said:


> https://www.theepochtimes.com/nbc-news-gets-its-facts-about-the-epoch-times-wrong-again_3558902.html
> 
> (I'll take a play out of your side's book.)  See here???  The Epoch Times says you are wrong and here's my proof.  Try again, Commie.


I'm not sure @Xzi is a commie (genuinely speaking) You guys conflate commies, socialists, and liberals so often that I honestly am unable to take you seriously. You just screech and call in the boogie man for stuff you hate. And even then. as long as he's not a Stalinist. Why would it even matter. (which I highly doubt. most common supporters of communism in the states are anarcho-communist)
now, on to the part you conveniently leave out.
The part that says your website is fake news, and that often our sources are factual.




so here we go again. reporting is mixed. And also, promotes propaganda and conspiracy theories. Go, figure.
Can't you tell I'm bored doing this?

Oh and regarding nbc, since that's what the epoch times was trashing on


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 18, 2020)

Master X said:


> Still, ~36 days left until inauguration. Plenty of time to take out a loan and place another bet or two. Who knows, you could experience so much winning that even Trump himself would be in awe.


And 20 more days until the Electoral College Ballots are counted. We might get another 2016 situation on our hands. It'll be a great way to start up 2021, the second year of the world getting crapped on.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 18, 2020)

kingaz said:


> There you go again, misquoting things to change the meaning



I know I was.  I thought the context makes it obvious.  I'm sorry for making fun of you and did not mean to hurt your feelings.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 18, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I'm not sure @Xzi is a commie (genuinely speaking) You guys conflate commies, socialists, and liberals so often that I honestly am unable to take you seriously. You just screech and call in the boogie man for stuff you hate. And even then. as long as he's not a Stalinist. Why would it even matter. (which I highly doubt. most common supporters of communism in the states are anarcho-communist)
> now, on to the part you conveniently leave out.
> The part that says your website is fake news, and that often our sources are factual.
> View attachment 238553
> ...



The use of fact-checking websites to validate personal bias is evidently already problematic.

There used to be fact checkers--it was called the free press.  Now that news has become "media" and has been monopolized by oligarchical groups of people, it's safe to say that there is no free press; only a competition in controlling narrative. These fact checking websites are just another superficial layer of "the news", created only for leveraging the image of credibility under false pretenses.  They have already become meme-ish in the prevalent use of infographics without citing sources (as your post is doing).  They hide bias by using unverifiable and arbitrary scales of honesty and validate them with anecdotes.  It is intellectually dishonest to be complacent in the reliance on fact-checking websites.

There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist.  Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?  Also, how is it that some things are "debunked" because of witness testimony, while witness testimony is considered hearsay in debunking others?  If there isn't consistency in fact check to fact check--it's unreliable and evidently biased.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 18, 2020)

*Report: Kushner helped create shell company that paid family members and spent $617 million in campaign funds*
Damning report from Business Insider: Trump’s son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner helped create a shell company that secretly paid the Trump family and spent more than half of the campaign $1.26 billion war chest, according to sources who revealed the operation to the publication.

The shell company – American Made Media Consultants Corporation and American Made Media Consultants LLC – was able to skirt legal disclosures and avoid scrutiny from campaign finance regulators.

From January 2019 through the middle of November 2020, after the presidential election, Trump’s campaign and PAC spent more than $600 million through the company.

oops I guess it slipped out
You know what that Means!!!


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 18, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The use of fact-checking websites to validate personal bias is evidently already problematic.
> 
> There used to be fact checkers--it was called the free press.  Now that news has become "media" and has been monopolized by oligarchical groups of people, it's safe to say that there is no free press; only a competition in controlling narrative. These fact checking websites are just another superficial layer of "the news", created only for leveraging the image of credibility under false pretenses.  They have already become meme-ish in the prevalent use of infographics without citing sources (as your post is doing).  They hide bias by using unverifiable and arbitrary scales of honesty and validate them with anecdotes.  It is intellectually dishonest to be complacent in the reliance on fact-checking websites.
> 
> There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist.  Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?  Also, how is it that some things are "debunked" because of witness testimony, while witness testimony is considered hearsay in debunking others?  If there isn't consistency in fact check to fact check--it's unreliable and evidently biased.


and websites that publish shit like this:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/super...ditation-dr-dean-radin-discusses_2157904.html
Make me question them entirely.
Yeah let's just go talk about psi on a news website I'm supposed to apparently take seriously.
Oh, and regarding to not citing source in your claim.



they point directly to some of the shit that makes them questionable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh, and also regarding to your argument that the media controls everything therefore no news is trustworthy.
Considering share holders are involved, you would think that publishing fake stories, or mostly false information would get you in trouble with investors, especially if people where to find out.
Which people often do. It takes a lot for people stay quiet. One peeps and get the whole crowd talking.
Should you blindly trust? No, that's retarded, never for small scale, never for large scale.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 18, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Just like a pedocrat to accuse a Trumpican of doing/being what they do/are.
> 
> Ok, I was confused about WTF you were talking about, so I had to look this up.
> 
> ...



That video is pretty funny. Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 18, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah let's just go talk about psi on a news website I'm supposed to apparently take seriously.



You can take it however seriously you want.  They make articles that pander to their base, as do all publications.  If one of their stories is being used, you can check their sources.  But then you have articles that claim fact, and they don't reveal their source.  Sometimes it's an anonymous source.  That's a red flag.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Considering share holders are involved, you would think that publishing fake stories, or mostly false information would get you in trouble with investors, especially if people where to find out.



That's not reliable.  Financial incentive does not translate into honest news.  Pandering to their base usually translates to financial stability.  If their base likes the gaslighting, the overdramatic interpretation of facts, or even fantasy--that can equal sales.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh, and regarding to not citing source in your claim.



Lol, sorry.  I was referring to the fact that you weren't even putting up your factchecker's website/url with your infographics.  I know what it is, so you don't have to tell me.
*
*


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You can take it however seriously you want. They make articles that pander to their base, as do all publications.


So their base is about pseudo science and conspiracy theories?
Thanks for already confirming what I was already saying.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So their base is about pseudo science and conspiracy theories?
> Thanks for already confirming what I was already saying.



That's a disingenuous response.  Both sides of the spectrum like conspiracy theories.  WAPO isn't free from having done so either.  The point is that using fact-checkers to confirm your own bias is lazy and already predisposed in political agenda.  

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-fact-checking1/


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's a disingenuous response.  Both sides of the spectrum like conspiracy theories.  WAPO isn't free from having done so either.  The point is that using fact-checkers to confirm your own bias is lazy and already predisposed in political agenda.
> 
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-fact-checking1/


Quick question:
What kind of movement do you think qannon is? what politics do antivaxxers have?
Most of the big, overreaching conspiracy theories are _always_ in the right wing groups.
Calling both sides is fairly disingenuous don't you agree? It's complete bullshit.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Quick question:
> What kind of movement do you think qannon is? what politics do antivaxxers have?
> Most of the big, overreaching conspiracy theories are _always_ in the right wing groups.
> Calling both sides is fairly disingenuous don't you agree? It's complete bullshit.



More bias confirmation.  Do you want me to answer those questions honestly, or do you think you already understand my position?  

Also.  Define "overreaching".  As I made in a point before, 100 Buzzfeed articles may not be as overreaching as 1 WAPO article.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> More bias confirmation.  Do you want me to answer those questions honestly, or do you think you already understand my position?
> 
> Also.  Define "overreaching".  As I made in a point before, 100 Buzzfeed articles may not be as overreaching as 1 WAPO article.


Overreaching being prominent.
Being a leftist doesn't change anything about this argument. Epoch spewed conspiracy theories. Either you address the fact they were literately talking about psi/pseudo science. Or you shut up, since this argument won't be going anywhere.


----------



## RandomUser (Dec 19, 2020)

For those wondering what site monkeyman4412 posting snippets of the site, fact or bias checking is:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com
Now everyone can check their respective media source for fun.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Overreaching being prominent.



WAPO is definitely more overreaching than Epoch.  There's no contest.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Either you address the fact they were literately talking about psi/pseudo science.



I did.  They were.  They do that.  They will do it again.

But the point that you are side-skirting, here,  is that you don't distinguish the difference between an article and its source.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Being a leftist doesn't change anything about this argument



Calling yourself a leftist is precisely the linchpin that keeps you as a captivated audience and not an active participant.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> (Overreaching being prominent.)
> WAPO is definitely more overreaching than Epoch.  There's no contest.


Nice context change there.
here's what I originally said:


monkeyman4412 said:


> Quick question:
> What kind of movement do you think qannon is? what politics do antivaxxers have?
> Most of the big, *overreaching *conspiracy theories are _always_ in the right wing groups.
> Calling both sides is fairly disingenuous don't you agree? It's complete bullshit.


Moving from conspiracy theories into websites.
You enjoy being disingenuous don't you?



tabzer said:


> I did..


You went on a tirade about news fact checking and how it only helps confirmation bias.  You didn't address the fact they did indeed, with what I linked, put pseudo science. You didn't refute it.


tabzer said:


> But the point that you are side-skirting, here,  is that you don't distinguish the difference between an article and its source.


News reporters aren't researches. News reporters job is to give things a platform. They gave a platform to pseudoscience.
meaning they in some way shape or form, they support it. So it doesn't matter about the difference, you don't give platforms to fake shit. It's wrong.




tabzer said:


> Calling yourself a leftist is precisely the linchpin that keeps you as a captivated audience and not an active participant.


Yeah well making me a boogeyman doesn't really make anything you have to say more meaningful now does it?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

You are projecting and not really paying attention to what I am writing.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Moving from conspiracy theories into websites.
> You enjoy being disingenuous don't you?



What I've already said on the topic:

"There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist. Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?"

"100 Buzzfeed articles may not be as overreaching as 1 WAPO article."  (in any context, including conspiracy theories)



monkeyman4412 said:


> You went on a tirade about news fact checking and how it only helps confirmation bias. You didn't address the fact they did indeed, with what I linked, put pseudo science.



What I've already said on the subject:

"You can take it however seriously you want. They make articles that pander to their base, as do all publications. If one of their stories is being used, you can check their sources."

"They do that. They will do it again."



monkeyman4412 said:


> News reporters aren't researches.



If it's not accurate, then it is not news.  News reporters should definitely be researching what they are reporting.



monkeyman4412 said:


> News reporters job is to give things a platform.



Are we confusing the difference between a News Platform/Publisher and a News Reporter?  Many reporters earn their own reputation in order to become recognized and prestigious.  A site like Epoch will publish almost anyone if it aligns with their base's interest and gets them more clicks/$.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah well making me a boogeyman doesn't really make anything you have to say more meaningful now does it?



I wasn't the one saying that you are a leftist.  You did that.


----------



## Master X (Dec 19, 2020)

Whelp, Antrim county finished their recount. Despite all the interesting 'theories' put forth by ASOG, and their supporters, the hand recount doesn't exactly support them.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...ty-audit-shows-12-vote-gain-trump/3938988001/


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

Holy mother of nonsense. We do circular reasoning now?


tabzer said:


> You are projecting and not really paying attention to what I am writing.


Really?




tabzer said:


> What I've already said on the topic:
> 
> "There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist. Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?"
> 
> "100 Buzzfeed articles may not be as overreaching as 1 WAPO article."  (in any context, including conspiracy theories)


impressive that you changed the order of your statements. we didn't talk about over reaching until I brought up the fact epoch was putting pseudo science with a link. You are intentionally now trying to reorder your arguments at this point.
So for those who want to know. the overachieving argument should come after the quote beneath the next one
Oh further more, those parentheses are new. not his original argument.



tabzer said:


> What I've already said on the subject:
> 
> "You can take it however seriously you want.* They make articles that pander to their base*, as do all publications. If one of their stories is being used, you can check their sources."
> 
> "They do that. They will do it again."



and I brought up that it's quite clear the pandering they are doing is conspiracy and pseudo science.





tabzer said:


> Are we confusing the difference between a News Platform/Publisher and a News Reporter?  Many reporters earn their own reputation in order to become recognized and prestigious.  A site like Epoch will publish almost anyone if it aligns with their base's interest and gets them more clicks/$.


News reporters should definitely be researching what they are reporting. If a report goes on writing an article about a conspiracy, and the platform allows it. It is wrong. And this still fails to refute my point
*Epoch is not a trustworthy source*
if you want to gundown mediabiasfact check go ahead. But if they (epoch) are putting out clear articles that are untrue, which I showed an example that they were.
There's only so long before you call the kettle it's color.



tabzer said:


> I wasn't the one saying that you are a leftist.  You did that.


And I wasn't the one arguing that having a bias for a side somehow changes the fact that the most prominent/overeaching conspiracy theories are on the right wing, or arguing that that epoch is a trustworthy news source. Because that's essentially what you were arguing. I pointed out x thing, you went out of your way to talk about y as if it changed x. When it never did.
X being epoch isn't credible
y being that fact checkers have issues and it goes into confirmation bias.
Tell me, does fact checkers having issues somehow the contents of the page for epoch? That they posted pseudo science. If it somehow does, please tell me how.
tell me how rendering invalid mediabiasfactcheck changes epoch's page:


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> impressive that you changed the order of your statements. we didn't talk about over reaching until I brought up the fact epoch was putting pseudo science with a link. You are intentionally now trying to reorder your arguments at this point



I talked about it before you did, showing that you aren't even paying attention.  You think you came up with something I didn't already consider.  You ignored what I said that was directly relevent to the subject.  It doesn't matter what order you decide to read the quotes.  Both indicate my position.

***And HOLY NINJA EDIT.  I have already made this point, before both of these posts:



tabzer said:


> Also. Define "overreaching". As I made in a point before, 100 Buzzfeed articles may not be as overreaching as 1 WAPO article.



***And from here, you will act surprised when I bring it up again.  Daft.



monkeyman4412 said:


> and I brought up that it's quite clear the pandering they are doing is conspiracy and pseudo science.



I don't disagree. I don't like Epoch.  I don't consider their existence to be as threatening as some other media companies oligarchies.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Epoch is not a trustworthy source



Right.  But some articles that they sometimes decide to parrot link to sources outside of their publication.



monkeyman4412 said:


> And I wasn't the one arguing that having a bias for a side somehow changes the fact that the most prominent/overeaching conspiracy theories are on the right wing, or that epoch is a trustworthy news source.



I still think the WAPO conspiracy claims have been more damaging.  But, in my first post I conceded that we don't have a reliable baseline.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> News reporters should definitely be researching what they are reporting. If a report goes on writing an article about a conspiracy, and the platform allows it. It is wrong. And this still fails to refute my point



You are conflating news reporters with platforms that host their reports.  It's lazy and not a catch-all in determining the validity of their respective articles/sources.  That is the refutation.



monkeyman4412 said:


> took issue with me being a leftists, and I really can't care
> "Calling yourself a leftist is precisely the linchpin that keeps you as a captivated audience and not an active participant."



This was a tangent you introduced.  I commented on it.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I talked about it before you did, showing that you aren't even paying attention.  You think you came up with something I didn't already consider.  You ignored what I said that was directly relevent to the subject.  It doesn't matter what order you decide to read the quotes.  Both indicate my position.



_oh hey look at this, tabzer lied? no way_


tabzer said:


> This was a tangent you introduced. I commented on it.


Correction, you introduced it since you were talking about confirmation bias. I brought that up to counter your stupid argument that my bias was somehow changing the fact that they were putting pseudo science.
Edit:looks like youtube might be stupid and processing my video at stupid low quality. Give it sometime and hopefully it comes crisp. the source is 1080p


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> _oh hey look at this, tabzer lied? no way_




This is the first thing I said on the subject of what you later coined "overreach":



tabzer said:


> There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist. Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?



Maybe you are subliminally influenceable and this was just too "indirect" for you to process.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Correction, you introduced it since you were talking about confirmation bias. I brought that up to counter your stupid argument.



Talking about bias is not calling you a leftist.  Calling yourself a leftist doesn't counter my "stupid" argument.  It supports it.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This is the first thing I said on the subject of what you later coined "overreach":


Holy fuck, your dense. No, that's not at all you were saying. you went into a tirade about fact checkers.
When I said overreach, it was used a very different context.




tabzer said:


> Maybe you are subliminally influenceable and this was just too indirect for you to process.


And your being seriously dishonest.



tabzer said:


> Talking about bias is not calling you a leftist.  Calling yourself a leftist doesn't counter my "stupid" argument.  It supports it.


doesn't it get old snipping out parts of my statements?
At this point I'm done, your so dishonest that it's actually outright insane.
here's my full original quote you botched
"I brought that up to counter your stupid argument that my bias was somehow changing the fact that they were putting pseudo science."


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> No, that's not at all you were saying. you went into a tirade about fact checkers.



Look at this statement: "There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist. Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?"

It quite clearly is referencing how fact checkers aren't reliably evaluating the weight of prominence, impact, or "overreach".

You said:  "Most of the big, *overreaching *conspiracy theories are _always_ in the right wing groups."  And I had already disagreed with the premise of that evaluation on my 1st post.



monkeyman4412 said:


> doesn't it get old snipping out parts of my statements?
> At this point I'm done, your so dishonest that it's actually outright insane.
> here's my full original quote you botched
> "I brought that up to counter your stupid argument that my bias was somehow changing the fact that they were putting pseudo science."



That was never a point in my argument.  I thought I quoted what was relevent to what I said.  Maybe I missed it.  Maybe you post-edited it like all your other posts.  Who knows?  You calling yourself a leftist does support my actual argument though.  You want to get "leftist news" and instructions on "how a leftist should act".  You aren't representing anything authentic.  Things you don't understand, you ignore.  When they are thrown back to you because you failed to understand them the first time, you act outraged.  You might think you are acting honestly, but I am too.  It's better to not talk over people and instead, try to understand what's being said. There's no shame in asking,"what do you mean by this?".  You know, instead of pretending you understand and then regurgitating the prescribed parrot talk that was initially refuted with the opening act.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-fact-checking1/

If you think of yourself as a leftist, you aren't thinking.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 19, 2020)

Master X said:


> Whelp, Antrim county finished their recount. Despite all the interesting 'theories' put forth by ASOG, and their supporters, the hand recount doesn't exactly support them.



Odd that brainlets forget about this fact that was in the site you posted:

"The reliably Republican county has been the center of controversy in the weeks since the election after initial results posted in the early morning hours of Nov. 4 showed Biden ahead of Trump by thousands of votes. Election officials later determined* a clerk's failure to properly update software had resulted in transposed results and Trump actually won the county by more than 3,700 votes*." 
This was claimed to be due to "human error" by Pedocrats election officials, but forensic evidence shown it was due to a "feature" of Dominion software that flipped the votes to Pedo Joe.  Now that they were caught and the votes fixed, they're saying the numbers are correct and Dominion is "secure".  GTFO with that mess.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

*snip*


----------



## DarknessPlay3r (Dec 19, 2020)

241 pages later and this thread is still going, and all I can think of is _*this*_:



Only now instead of being about TV is kinda applies to any modern media distributions...


----------



## 6adget (Dec 19, 2020)

DarknessPlay3r said:


> 241 pages later and this thread is still going, and all I can think of is _*this*_:
> 
> 
> 
> Only now instead of being about TV is kinda applies to any modern media distributions...





And this comes to mind


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 19, 2020)

cornerpath said:


> People will believe anything on the news, still thinking Joe will be the president, It's A reason why I said to at least wait until phase 3 ends; the crazy stuff haven't even came out yet


Talk about copium™
January is going to be really rough with you then
feels bad.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 19, 2020)

cornerpath said:


> People will believe anything on the news, still thinking Joe will be the president, It's A reason why I said to at least wait until phase 3 ends; the crazy stuff haven't even came out yet


President-elect Joe Biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the United States on January 20, 2021.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

Lacius said:


> President-elect Joe Biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the United States on January 20, 2021.



Nah.  Biden is going concede before that.  They got his family with the China thing.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nah.  Biden is going concede before that.  They got his family with the China thing.


You're living in a fantasy world.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 19, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nah.  Biden is going concede before that.  They got his family with the China thing.


God damn your insane, one moment the republicans say something that kinda makes sense, and then they go back to Shitting nonsense, before, you were at least holding off the fake theories and trying to find some loophole in this shitshow, but now since another republican who is even more braindead then you start to show up, you start to push the fake theories! GOD DAMN ALL REPUBLICANS, MOST OF THEM ARE STUPID. What the hell is wrong with you people!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Nah.  Biden is going concede before that.  They got his family with the China thing.


Oh wait a minute! YOUR JAPANESE! Why should your care about this when your country is one of the least affected by either president, in fact, Trump made it worst, due to his refusal to say Golbal warming exists, and your kinda of needing that to stop your country is done. I know your republican, Ok? WE all know. But acting like your american when your not is important to this discusion, while your could give your opinions, all of this is just, WHY!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 19, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You're living in a fantasy world.



I'm living in 2020.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm living in 2020.


http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=2020+US+election+results


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Oh wait a minute! YOUR JAPANESE!



" 'Your' Japanese!  Let ME tell YOU what you should want!"

Perfect.



Driving_duck said:


> I know your republican



Preferring Trump to Biden doesn't make me a Republican or a Democrat.




Lacius said:


> http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=2020+US+election+results



Can you see google the future?  Because you made a prediction and I made one too.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Can you see the future?  Because you made a prediction and I made one too.


A president-elect is sworn in as president when they're elected by the Electoral College.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

Lacius said:


> A president-elect is sworn in as president when they're elected by the Electoral College.


 holy shit, this man is 2021
*Nostradamus.. *

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

the only different is what he is saying is actually going to  happening...because you know.. thats how Elections work....


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

djpannda said:


> the only different is what he is saying is actually going to happening...because you know.. thats how Elections work....



You look cute and sad at the same time.

I know what you are planning on.  But plans don't work out this year.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I know what you are planning on.  But plans don't work out this year.


you got that right .. 75 millions thought Trump was going to be the next Jesus. but then you know... 80 million people also voted


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

And also Biden got past the 270 mark... and got past safe harbor day... which is when essentially when states HAVE to confirm who won in there state... Which all 50 have certified. And Biden still has over 270 post certification.

Unless your telling me that somehow, someway, your going to get 60 faithless electors. Which I highly doubt since the supreme court said faithless electors are a no go


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And also Biden got past the 270 mark... and got past safe harbor day... which is when essentially when states HAVE to confirm who won in there state... Which all 50 have certified. And Biden still has over 270 post certification.
> 
> Unless your telling me that somehow, someway, your going to get 60 faithless electors. Which I highly doubt since the supreme court said faithless electors are a no go


Even then, there was no faithless electors, so looks like biden beat trump, again!


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And also Biden got past the 270 mark... and got past safe harbor day... which is when essentially when states HAVE to confirm who won in there state... Which all 50 have certified. And Biden still has over 270 post certification.


oh oh don't forget, Trump's legal team was not able to prove any kind of fraud Conspiracy... .. I MEAN NOTHING that come be presented in a Court of law without the Judge laughing them out of court room..


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

djpannda said:


> oh oh don't forget, Trump's legal team was not able to prove any kind of fraud Conspiracy... .. I MEAN NOTHING that come be presented in a Court of law without the Judge laughing them out of court room..


that too.
winning only 1 case out of what?
60?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

if this needed to be treated as a math ratio
trump's failure rate in cases to prove that there is election fraud is 98.3%


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> if this needed to be treated as a math ratio
> trump's failure rate in cases is 98.3%


lol thats also Trump's Companies failure rate also... lol


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> that too.
> winning only 1 case out of what?
> 60?
> 
> ...


Hey, it could of been worst, maybe it could have been 99%!


----------



## tiamat999 (Dec 20, 2020)

Quick qult45 activate trumpy poo needs his troll army to enact martial law you only have about 30 days


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

::sips coffee::


----------



## tiamat999 (Dec 20, 2020)

Sips coffee to


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

I hope I'm not pretending to be American too much for y'all.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> that too.
> winning only 1 case out of what?
> 60?
> 
> ...



Isn't that how much money Trump owes to who the flock knows... $983 million

By the way... Can't you guys all see that Tabzer is trolling everyone here... He keeps posting the same junk just to aggravate everyone. The best way moving forward is to completely ignore him.... Because moderators aren't advising him to stop trolling.


----------



## tiamat999 (Dec 20, 2020)

No your good


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Isn't that how much money Trump owes to who the flock knows... $983 million
> 
> By the way... Can't you guys all see that Tabzer is trolling everyone here... He keeps posting the same junk just to aggravate everyone. The best way moving forward is to completely ignore him.... Because moderators aren't advising him to stop trolling.


Yea .. I know .he realizes his defeat and stays on to try to troll.. I’m just keep lurking on this thread waiting for Jimbo’s suspension to be over .. Now that’s a man who spent all his money on the koolaid


----------



## Lacius (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Because moderators aren't advising him to stop trolling.


What a shock


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Isn't that how much money Trump owes to who the flock knows... $983 million
> 
> By the way... Can't you guys all see that Tabzer is trolling everyone here... He keeps posting the same junk just to aggravate everyone. The best way moving forward is to completely ignore him.... Because moderators aren't advising him to stop trolling.



A racist duck said to me,"You are Canadian Japanese.  Why should you care."

Wasn't even courteous enough to ask genuine questions.  I'll ask a question.  Why would Japanese people not want China to gain leverage in American/Global politics?   Why wouldn't anyone?



djpannda said:


> Yea .. I know .he realizes his defeat and trying to troll.. I’m just keep lurk this thread waiting for Jimbo’s suspension to be over .. Now that’s a man who spent all his money on the koolaid



Defeat?  There are only predictions on which emotional and mental health are being hinged--and time to spend before seeing the fallout.  A Biden outcome would be worse for you than a Trump outcome, so I don't understand how people can think like this.  It's probably Stockholm's syndrome.  



Lacius said:


> What a shock



What part is shocking?  That I can make "bogus claims" about the future and not be censored for them?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A racist duck said to me,"You are Canadian Japanese.  Why should you care."
> 
> Wasn't even courteous enough to ask genuine questions.  I'll ask a question.  Why would Japanese people not want China to gain leverage in American/Global politics?   Why wouldn't anyone?
> 
> ...


The claims aren't the issue.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Haven't you heard? I'm part of the problem.



I don't like it too bitter.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 20, 2020)

Congratulations president elect Joe Biden for your win, becoming the 46th president of USA!

Was watching this morning how president elect  Joe Biden, once more, has broken barriers with his historic picks. Now adding Rep. Deb Haaland, a native American to his team to serve as head of the Department of Interior.

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...land-interior-secretary-biden/?outputType=amp

President elect Joe Biden will have the most diverse cabinet in history! I'm so proud of our President elect!

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/bidens-cabinet-the-most-diverse-in-history/amp


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Congratulations president elect Joe Biden for your win, becoming the 46th president of USA!
> 
> Was watching this morning how president elect  Joe Biden, once more, has broken barriers with his historic picks. Now adding Rep. Deb Haaland, a native American to his team to serve as head of the Department of Interior.
> 
> ...


Good bless President-elect Biden and God bless America. The next 4 years are going to be better then the last 4 with Biden/Harris.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

I'll state my point again.
Biden is better than Trump, but that's a really low bar to pass. I don't think highly of Biden.
However, it's much easier to deal with a possible push over (Biden) than literately a fascist (or at least, someone who is pro fascist), who happens to be a moron. (Trump)


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 20, 2020)

The thing is that Biden knows he's getting old... He knows that he probably won't be there for another 4 years after these 4 years... But his point of having Vice president elect Harris, is that she will hopefully become the next president. Having a women as a President would be game changing, and I honestly think it would be great for USA.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

cornerpath said:


> I made that statement yesterday and today just a few minutes ago I see this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So... essentially your telling me the President get's to say that people's votes don't matter. Even though clearly at this point there is no widespread election fraud. And if he had something to pull on Biden, it already would of been brought up.
Are we just going to go into a dictatorship now?
as a really stupid person from your side(I'm presuming right-wing) said.
Facts, don't care about your feelings.
And the facts are Joe Biden won the election.
The facts are there is no widespread voter fraud.
The facts are that  Biden is the next president of the united states.
The facts are, Trump lost the election.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 20, 2020)

Lacius said:


> A president-elect is sworn in as president when they're elected by the Electoral College.



Yes, on January 6th the President of the Senate counts the votes. I'm a Canadian but all of this stuff happening in the USA is fascinating especially because there seem to be two different worlds from an outside perspective.

A. One world where Joe Biden received 80 million votes (the most of any candidate in history) in the most secure election in history while only winning 16.7% of the counties and underperforming in all but 5 cities where he miraculously received massive dumps of votes at the eleventh hour on election day after it appeared he had already lost,

B. Another world where the election was stolen from the incumbent President who also received the most votes in history, who has secret evidence, Executive Order 13848 in his pocket, and "A Plan" to secure the Presidency in the eleventh hour, despite being seemingly defeated at every turn, to save America from Chinese communists.

Both of these worldviews seem unlikely to be true to normal people. I assume the truth there must be somewhere between the two.

I can't reconcile these two worlds from the outside so I am waiting patiently to see what happens on January 6th, and then 20th.
I don't think anyone can confidently know what is going to happen and I think it's mostly people cheering for their team at this point.

I'm anxious to see what happens! I just hope that at least we gamers can stay united in this wonderful community.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> Yes, on January 6th the President of the Senate counts the votes. I'm a Canadian but all of this stuff happening in the USA is fascinating especially because there seem to be two different worlds from an outside perspective.
> 
> A. One world where Joe Biden received 80 million votes (the most of any candidate in history) in the most secure election in history while only winning 16.7% of the counties and underperforming in all but 5 cities where he miraculously received massive dumps of votes at the eleventh hour on election day after it appeared he had already lost,
> 
> ...


Let me correct some misconceptions
"
A. One world where Joe Biden received 80 million votes (the most of any candidate in history) in the most secure election in hi*story while only winning 16.7% of the counties and underperforming in all but 5 cities where he miraculously received massive dumps of votes at the eleventh hour on election day after it appeared he had already lost,*"
False, it wasn't dumps of votes. What happened was that everyone voted on election day, but due to early in votes and ballots not being counted the day before, due to some states laws saying that. that's the appearance of things. Also, there is a disparity between which party takes covid more seriously, studies shown that rightwing inviduals don't take covid seriously. Which would impact how many of them feel the need to vote early. While many of leftwing inviduals voted early and through mail in ballots. Since they took covid more seriously. In other words, the exact situation your describing here. It looked like Biden wouldn't win. But that's because of that specific disparity.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So... essentially your telling me the President get's to say that people's votes don't matter. Even though clearly at this point there is no widespread election fraud. And if he had something to pull on Biden, it already would of been brought up.
> Are we just going to go into a dictatorship now?
> as a really stupid person from your side(I'm presuming right-wing) said.
> Facts, don't care about your feelings.
> ...



Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I have seen, Evidence has been presented of widespread fraud but it hasn't been judged on its merits in court because the courts refuse to take the cases. If we were to assume there was widespread foul play or foreign election interference and it was proven to you, would you, as an American want the executive branch to intervene?


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> so I don't understand how people can think like this


While I also ponder this question almost everyday now, I can attest to the fact that I also thought like them and watched the same shows/news as them before becoming a Trump supporter.  They may have started with a "my team is the best" mentality, but their hatred of Trump was infused through being inundated and brainwashed with constant bad mouthing, lies, and propaganda (Orange Man Bad, He's racist, Good people on both sides, All Mexicans are rapist and murderers, etc) without ever taking the time to investigate any counter points or looking for the entire context of the matter which their "leaders" just claimed was "Russian disinformation" (see Hunter's laptop).

The main difference between me and them is that I didn't like Trump based on my own conclusions from his contributions to Globalists like the Clintons (I always despised them regardless of their party affiliation), and I hated that show of his "The Apprentice".  After seeing the truth behind all the propaganda, I "walked away" from the Pedocrat plantation that still enslaves countless people on that side to this day.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I have seen, Evidence has been presented of widespread fraud but it hasn't been judged on its merits in court because the courts refuse to take the cases. If we were to assume there was widespread foul play or foreign election interference and it was proven to you, would you, as an American want the executive branch to intervene?


Courts have thrown it out due to lack of evidence.
When you submit a case, you need to provide some evidence before the case is even considered. The greater the claim, the bigger the amount of evidence required. it was also asking to stop the vote in states in quiet a few of the cases. So it required a lot of evidence. Evidence trump's team was unable to come up with. Hence why they were thrown out.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Let me correct some misconceptions
> "
> A. One world where Joe Biden received 80 million votes (the most of any candidate in history) in the most secure election in hi*story while only winning 16.7% of the counties and underperforming in all but 5 cities where he miraculously received massive dumps of votes at the eleventh hour on election day after it appeared he had already lost,*"
> False, it wasn't dumps of votes. What happened was that everyone voted on election day, but due to early in votes and ballots not being counted the day before, due to some states laws saying that. that's the appearance of things. Also, there is a disparity between which party takes covid more seriously, studies shown that rightwing inviduals don't take covid seriously. Which would impact how many of them feel the need to vote early. While many of leftwing inviduals voted early and through mail in ballots. Since they took covid more seriously. In other words, the exact situation your describing here. It looked like Biden wouldn't win. But that's because of that specific disparity.


I'm saying the dumps of votes came in at the eleventh hour (counted last?) I understand the argument about the mail in votes, but I understood that Democrats requested mail in votes at a 2-1 ratio to republicans, and the percentages for these vote dumps were closer to 97% in Biden's favour, that doesn't seem suspicious to you?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> Courts have thrown it out due to lack of evidence.
> When you submit a case, you need to provide some evidence before the case is even considered. The greater the claim, the bigger the amount of evidence required. it was also asking to stop the vote in states in quiet a few of the cases. So it required a lot of evidence. Evidence trump's team was unable to come up with. Hence why they were thrown out.


which court case are you citing? The SCOTUS threw the Texas case out, a constitutional argument, because of procedural reasons. I haven't seen the evidence dismissed on its merits yet, please guide me in the right direction.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> I'm saying the dumps of votes came in at the eleventh hour (counted last?) I understand the argument about the mail in votes, but I understood that Democrats requested mail in votes at a 2-1 ratio to republicans, and the percentages for these vote dumps were closer to 97% in Biden's favour, that doesn't seem suspicious to you?


There was no dumps. Those dumps you're referring to is quite literately through them counting. No votes were suddenly dumped in. Trying to commit fraud with votes is a rather difficult ass thing to do considering the many ways of verifying a vote.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> I'm saying the dumps of votes came in at the eleventh hour (counted last?) I understand the argument about the mail in votes, but I understood that Democrats requested mail in votes at a 2-1 ratio to republicans, and the percentages for these vote dumps were closer to 97% in Biden's favour, that doesn't seem suspicious to you?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


here's the court cases I'm citing


Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1338627676953661440
Trump filed 60 court cases. Lost 59 of them.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I have seen, Evidence has been presented of widespread fraud but it hasn't been judged on its merits in court because the courts refuse to take the cases. If we were to assume there was widespread foul play or foreign election interference and it was proven to you, would you, as an American want the executive branch to intervene?



The democrat party was complaining about election fraud and foreign interference (see Russian collusion) and how the voting machines open up the opportunities for massive fraud long before this election.  They decided that all this doesn't matter now and no investigations or paper trails must be done as the election fraud worked out in their favor this time.  If Trump was able to get way over the number of votes to counteract the fraud that took place (which he did prior to Nov 4th before they had to do another massive ballot dump), there would be massive investigations and court hearings going on, and it would be on CNN, MSDNC, etc all day long until he leaves office in 2024.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

morvoran said:


> The democrat party was complaining about election fraud and foreign interference (see Russian collusion) and how the voting machines open up the opportunities for massive fraud long before this election.  They decided that all this doesn't matter now and no investigations or paper trails must be done as the election fraud worked out in their favor this time.  If Trump was able to get way over the number of votes to counteract the fraud that took place (which he did prior to Nov 4th before they had to do another massive ballot dump), there would be massive investigations and court hearings going on, and it would be on CNN, MSDNC, etc all day long until he leaves office in 2024.


You know what.
Let me ask this
If there was supposedly voter fraud.
You don't think the CIA would of figured it out that there was?
Considering that these guys are literately meant to gather intelligence through and through, you think that they would let democrats or some party win a election through cheating here?
Under trumps own administration?
I find that really hard to believe.



Are we also going to also believe that his own puppet, William Bar is just some hack that hates Trump too?
I mean I also know he stated that there was no election fraud, and that guy is a trump supporter.
You can't lie in courts, you go to prison for it, and he said there was no election fraud.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> There was no dumps. Those dumps you're referring to is quite literately through them counting. No votes were suddenly dumped in. Trying to commit fraud with votes is a rather difficult ass thing to do considering the many ways of verifying a vote.


they were data dumps. massive numbers of votes being added as data early November 4th, favouring Biden by (97%)? if the mail-in ballots favoured democrats 2:


monkeyman4412 said:


> There was no dumps. Those dumps you're referring to is quite literately through them counting. No votes were suddenly dumped in. Trying to commit fraud with votes is a rather difficult ass thing to do considering the many ways of verifying a vote.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Trump has filed less than 10 cases, I'm not familiar with the Paul Andrew Boland V Brad Raffensperger (Secretary of State GA) case but what you've presented doesn't refute my claim. SCOTUS dismissed the Texas lawsuit based on procedure, would have helped America to have it judged on its merit. Americans should be confident in their election integrity and if the cases aren't being judged on their merit how can people be satisfied with the result?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> they were data dumps. massive numbers of votes being added as data early November 4th, favouring Biden by (97%)? if the mail-in ballots favoured democrats 2:


Can you give your source for that claim?



Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> SCOTUS dismissed the Texas lawsuit based on procedure, would have helped America to have it judged on its merit. Americans should be confident in their election integrity and if the cases aren't being judged on their merit how can people be satisfied with the result?


So....
you want a state. to boss other states about their elections...
Yeah that would be breaking a lot of previously established rulings.
hint, Texas can't. they are not the party who is effected by "data dumps"
Georgia would and all the states that were flipped, would have to.
I can't sue for my neighbor against someone who broke into their home. They have to, I am not the effected party.
Allowing Texas to boss around another states election, would essentially be the equivalent of California getting say over how Texas not having stricter laws over something.
It completely breaks states boundaries and would become a power mess.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

In other words, SCOTUS ignore/dismissed the appeal for two reasons
1. Because procedure wise, you can't file for a lawsuit your not effected by. Texas is not effected by the flipped states voters, or "fraud." that would be on the flipped states to file a case for.
2. because it also fails said procedure, it would mean listening to it as a valid case, regardless of ruling ,would enable tomfoolery between states, and bring up a whole new mess where people get to sue while not being the effected party.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Can you give your source for that claim?



Mail-in ballot requests percentage by party affiliation
Pennsylvania: Democrats 70% / Republicans 29%
Michigan: Democrats 38% / Republicans 43%

Mail-in votes don't look as unbalanced as you were mentioning earlier

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...llots-outnumber-gop-key-swing-states-n1239361


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> Mail-in ballot requests percentage by party affiliation
> Pennsylvania: Democrats 70% / Republicans 29%
> Michigan: Democrats 38% / Republicans 43%
> 
> ...


should of looked at the date
"Sept. 4, 2020, 3:53 PM CDT / Updated Sept. 6, 2020, 12:24 PM CDT"
this is massively out of date


also state your source for your claim about ballot dumps.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

to be clear, when I point out that it's out of date. It's because I care about working with all the data/information. There's no point in trying to discuss old data if it's outdated. Considering that months past since September. It stands to reason there is a LOT more data to go through.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> SCOTUS dismissed the Texas lawsuit based on procedure, would have helped America to have it judged on its merit.


  Hate to butt in to your conversation with a brainlet, but just wanted to add that there are reports John Roberts and the other liberal justices denied to hear that case due to "political cowardice" from fear of riots.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Hate to butt in to your conversation with a brainlet, but just wanted to add that there are reports John Roberts and the other liberal justices denied to hear that case due to "political cowardess" from fear of riots.


uhh...
Yeah I highly doubt that.
It's a 6-3 majority of republicans.
Aka 6 republicans, 3 democrats.
Also even then, it wouldn't matter, the supreme court is supposed to be nonpartisan in the first place. So I am really having a hard time believing that.
I don't think it was fear of riots. I think it was the fact they knew the case was bull.
Even then, they can't work with the case due to issues I've already stated (I can't file a lawsuit for you. I'm not the effected party...)


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> should of looked at the date
> "Sept. 4, 2020, 3:53 PM CDT / Updated Sept. 6, 2020, 12:24 PM CDT"
> this is massively out of date
> 
> ...


Is the data I provided invalid? I'd like to see the updated ballot request stats by party if you have them. It's the percentages I'm interested in seeing. The stats were based off of a fivethirtyeight update that came out on November 4th, on their election blog, you  can scroll back to November 4th through the blog for the live updates.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2020-election-results-coverage/
as it is cited in this Canadian news article as the source of the spike reporting
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/americ...s-about-how-votes-are-being-counted-1.5175577

I don't have a dog in this fight like I said I am anxious about what will happen and I hope we can stay united as gamers in this great community. It also has an update on Nov. 4 in he blog that the final % in PA was 64.7% D to 23.7% R for mail in registrations https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/PA.html

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Hate to butt in to your conversation with a brainlet, but just wanted to add that there are reports John Roberts and the other liberal justices denied to hear that case due to "political cowardice" from fear of riots.


Yeah I saw that. Chief Justice Roberts reportedly said "don't talk to me about Bush V Gore I don't give a fuck about that case, back then we didn't have riots". Fascinating times!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

The President was generous to share approved reading material for plebs.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Biden is better than Trump


Objectively false.  Take any negative claim that has been made about Trump, and examine a similar claim to Biden.  The reason Biden's horrible personality and  track-record is ignored is because he is a Democratic ticket, and you "are a lefty" and Trump is the "enemy", so it doesn't matter.  End justifies the means--even if it is the end of your "democracy".



monkeyman4412 said:


> In other words, SCOTUS ignore/dismissed the appeal for two reasons
> 1. Because procedure wise, you can't file for a lawsuit your not effected by. Texas is not effected by the flipped states voters, or "fraud." that would be on the flipped states to file a case for.
> 2. because it also fails said procedure, it would mean listening to it as a valid case, regardless of ruling ,would enable tomfoolery between states, and bring up a whole new mess where people get to sue while not being the effected party.



The Texas case made the argument that they were an "affected" party.  Scotus didn't say they weren't "affected".  They said the case "has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections."  That means it didn't matter if Texas was "affected" or not by another state's fraud.  SCOTUS said that it wasn't any of their business.  (The constitution's law is none of your business, said SCOTUS to TX)  The "judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections" IS the constitution, the law--a contract between all states, territories, entities, and the people.  Compartmentalization and disenfranchisement was clearly never the intention in the writing of the constitution, but SCOTUS injected that with their ruling. The Constitution is the supreme law of the US.  SCOTUS basically just refused to be the "judicially cognizable interest"'s representation on principle of cowardice.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 20, 2020)

"Election officials have certified Joe Biden as the winner of the U.S. Presidential election."

Source:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/america-votes/2020/12/19/1_5238751.html


----------



## laudern (Dec 20, 2020)

When Biden is found to be corrupt I hope that the democrats will be wanting to impeach him as much as they so badly wanted to with Trump.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> "Election officials have certified Joe Biden as the winner of the U.S. Presidential election."
> 
> Source:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/america-votes/2020/12/19/1_5238751.html



Twitter cares for your democracy.  So f'kin much.




laudern said:


> When Biden is found to be corrupt I hope that the democrats will be wanting to impeach him as much as they so badly wanted to with Trump.



I think he will be aborted before it gets to him becoming president.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> Now adding Rep. Deb Haaland, a native American to his team to serve as head of the Department of Interior.President elect Joe Biden will have the most diverse cabinet in history! I'm so proud of our President elect!



Oh, that's soooo great!!!!   I hope they can use their magical POC powers to do a better job of anybody else due to their darker complexion because you know... FUCK MERITS.  Why hire somebody who would be the best at the job when you can take "colorful" group photos???  God Damn, you leftists are so damn racist that MLK Jr is rolling around in his grave.

Why couldn't you say, "Now adding Rep. Deb Haaland, *who had the top scores in her class and an incredible track record in all her prior positions* to his team to serve as head of the Department of Interior.President elect Joe Biden will have the most *intellectually qualified* cabinet in history!"?  Instead, you go straight for race.  Pathetic.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

This is true.  We love black people diversity.  We aren't the racist ones.

Meanwhile, the "support" is like...

And BLM is like,"Why are you ghosting us Biden.  We fought for you."

Stick that in your media bias fact checker.  Probably can't see it.  Lol.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Meanwhile, the "support" is like...



Oh yeah, "your japanese".  Unfortunately, when it comes to things like college admission, people with that skin tone are actually discriminated more than those with "lighter complexions".  Democrats don't feel they're oppressed enough because others that "look like them" actually work hard for what they have.  http://asianamericanforeducation.org/en/issue/discrimination-on-admissions/

This means there probably won't be many "your japanese" in the Biden administration.

(even though "your japanese", I didn't want to assume that you are of Asian descent)


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

Too smart probably.



morvoran said:


> I didn't want to assume that you are of Asian descent



Doesn't matter.  Nobody respects the CCP (except those who are afraid of them or paid from them).

You didn't question my incentive based on racial qualifiers.  You aren't holding me back.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> And BLM is like,"Why are you ghosting us Biden. We fought for you."


  Of course, Joe Biden is ignoring them.  He doesn't want his kids to live in an "racial jungle".  



tabzer said:


> Doesn't matter. Nobody likes the CCP (except those who get paid by them).


  I just meant that because you have the Japanese flag under your name, I don't just immediately assume that you're not a white, black, etc person living in Japan.  For another example, just because I'm a Trump supporter doesn't mean that I'm a hillbilly redneck living in a mountain shanty like some leftist's might assume.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I just meant that because you have the Japanese flag under your name, I don't just immediately assume that you're not a white, black, etc person living in Japan. For another example, just because I'm a Trump supporter doesn't mean that I'm a hillbilly redneck living in a mountain shanty like some leftist's might assume.



Wise.  Too bad you cannot teach wisdom to others.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 20, 2020)

What.a bunch of bullshit.  Racist against Trump supporters? LOL. So fucking stupid.  Goes to show why Trump supporters support trump in the first place.

You are not race. You don't deserve respect.

To compare the judgement of Trump supporters to racial disparity just shows how stupid you are. Come on.  You can't honestly believe this shit? You think you are .... oppressed!!! WTF?!? Really? How about we compare apples to apples? Let's compare Trump supporters to privileged Nazis.  Or the conspiracy theorists to children with autism. That is a much more fair comparison. Grow up.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

Please tell me more, "mikefor20".  I'm listening.  I see a criticism, but as for an explanation all I see is "Trump Supporters=Nazis"  It's not very convincing, for a "mikefor20" anyway.  Maybe I expected too much from such an opening.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 20, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> What.a bunch of bullshit. Racist against Trump supporters? LOL. So fucking stupid. Goes to show why Trump supporters support trump in the first place.


Whoa there cowboy/girl/person!!!  Back away from your keyboard/phone and finish that cup of coffee first.  You're still hungover (based on your name, maybe you need to "wake and bake"). 

*Yes, of course, the Proud Boys are white nationalists. Here’s why*
The head of the Proud Boys:


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> You are not race. You don't deserve respect.


Race only matters if you are a democrat.  Interesting.  Maybe I don't want race to be the thing that matters about people?

The primary difference I see in racial disparity between the two extremes:  On one side, you have one "PoC" getting accolades, money and other kinds of rewards (financial and otherwise) just for saying "I'm oppressed."  Ironic, considering that they are the person being rewarded, not being oppressed.

On the other side of the spectrum, you have a "PoC" (what a shitty term) fighting for the republic and they are called an "Uncle Tom" or "Nazi" as "mike420" has astutely demonstrated.

People have not evolved.  They've gotten lazier.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

Everybody saw Biden coming, from 4 years away.  Nobody is surprised that cheating the republic and democracy is what happened.  These are facts, and everybody's feelings are valid.  Except yours.  Do we speak the same language?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 20, 2020)

cornerpath said:


> I made that statement yesterday and today just a few minutes ago I see this
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Retro_Mod_Gamer said:


> Yes, on January 6th the President of the Senate counts the votes. I'm a Canadian but all of this stuff happening in the USA is fascinating especially because there seem to be two different worlds from an outside perspective.
> 
> A. One world where Joe Biden received 80 million votes (the most of any candidate in history) in the most secure election in history while only winning 16.7% of the counties and underperforming in all but 5 cities where he miraculously received massive dumps of votes at the eleventh hour on election day after it appeared he had already lost,
> 
> ...


With the Electoral College having cast their votes, there is no legal pathway for Trump to steal this election. The votes of the Electoral College cannot be successfully challenged without, among other things, majority support in the Democratically-controlled House, there's nothing about appointing a special counsel or instituting martial law that legally could or would overturn the election results, and Trump himself has pushed back against these options.

We can say with 100% confidence that, unless Joe Biden dies or is incapacitated between now and January 20, he will be sworn in as president on January 20. There is zero ambiguity. Anybody saying otherwise is delusional or trolling.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Everybody saw Biden coming, from 4 years away.  Nobody is surprised that cheating the republic and democracy is what happened.  These are facts, and everybody's feelings are valid.  Except yours.  Do we speak the same language?


Yes if you mean everyone saw Biden was bond to win because Trump alienated  51% of Americans by pandering to Corporations and white nationalists.. who would of thought that doesn’t work that well a 2nd time.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 20, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> What.a bunch of bullshit.  Racist against Trump supporters? LOL. So fucking stupid.  Goes to show why Trump supporters support trump in the first place.
> 
> You are not race. You don't deserve respect.
> 
> To compare the judgement of Trump supporters to racial disparity just shows how stupid you are. Come on.  You can't honestly believe this shit? You think you are .... oppressed!!! WTF?!? Really? How about we compare apples to apples? Let's compare Trump supporters to privileged Nazis.  Or the conspiracy theorists to children with autism. That is a much more fair comparison. Grow up.



Except by definition, they ARE a race. Period. Fact. Go read a dictionary.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 20, 2020)

Holy shit, let them 1 or 2 hours alone and the thread turns into a conspiracy echo chamber. The copium is so high it can't be human anymore. I wonder what will be the next goalpost in january...


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 20, 2020)

I'm so proud of Joe Biden, the president elect!
*
"His choices have decades of quiet, behind-the-scenes policymaking experience, matching Mr. Biden’s pledge to return basic competence to the government after four years of Mr. Trump’s chaotic administration." *

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/us/politics/biden-cabinet.amp.html

*President-elect Joe Biden announced a racially diverse slate of environmental advisers on Saturday, to help his administration confront what he called “the existential threat of our time, climate change”.*

Source:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...environmental-advisers-haaland-kerry-granholm

*Presidential Transition Highlights: McConnell Congratulates Biden and Lobbies Senators to Oppose Effort to Overturn Results*

Source:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/15/us/joe-biden-trump.amp.html


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 20, 2020)

On a hilarious side note


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> return basic competence to the government



Oh so the government was competent prior to Trump.  Interesting theory.



Lacius said:


> With the Electoral College having cast their votes, there is no legal pathway for Trump to steal this election. The votes of the Electoral College cannot be successfully challenged without, among other things, majority support in the Democratically-controlled House, there's nothing about appointing a special counsel or instituting martial law that legally could or would overturn the election results, and Trump himself has pushed back against these options.
> 
> We can say with 100% confidence that, unless Joe Biden dies or is incapacitated between now and January 20, he will be sworn in as president on January 20. There is zero ambiguity. Anybody saying otherwise is delusional or trolling.



If Biden concedes, he will hand over the election to Trump, making him the winner of the election.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> If Biden concedes, he will hand over the election to Trump, making him the winner of the election.


I highly doubt he's going to concede.
I think if he tried to the democratic party would have a word with him.
Not that the party is good, but considering the amount of money poured into him. 
Yeah I highly doubt that.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 20, 2020)

Yeah, it's not something to count on.  But it is one of a few legal ways that Trump can win--just to show that @Lacius s self-assumed sense of authority is just pretentiousness wrapped in a thesaurus.



monkeyman4412 said:


> I think if he tried to the democratic party would have a word with him.



Lol "word".


----------



## djpannda (Dec 20, 2020)

This is fuking sad.. I guess because team Trump couldn’t found any real ballot fraud, they are trying to get millions of normal ballots thrown out .. really? Those are all good faith ballots with legislation that was approved by a Republican state.
The filing asks the justices to reverse three decisions from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court easing some of the state's election rules related to signature verification, Election Day observation and mail-in ballot declarations.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, it's not something to count on. But it is one of a few legal ways that Trump can win--just to show that @Lacius s self-assumed sense of authority is just pretentiousness wrapped in a thesaurus.


So...
You're essentially suggesting a highly unlikely scenario, and getting frustrated with someone who disagrees with that scenario's chance...
Yeah that seems pretty dumb


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 21, 2020)

*Donald Trump is now a history-making loser.*
*
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5841460*


----------



## Lacius (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, it's not something to count on.  But it is one of a few legal ways that Trump can win--just to show that @Lacius s self-assumed sense of authority is just pretentiousness wrapped in a thesaurus.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol "word".


Biden claimed victory. He didn't concede. If Biden were to hypothetically decide that he didn't want to take the oath of office, Harris would become president. That's not going to happen.

I'm not claiming to be an authority. I'm acknowledging the objective reality of things.

Edit: you seem to think Biden has as much say over who won the election as you think Trump has. Neither of them has any say over who won at this point.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 21, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> "His choices have decades of quiet, behind-the-scenes policymaking experience, matching Mr. Biden’s pledge to return basic competence to the government after four years of Mr. Trump’s chaotic administration."


  Yeah, I bet you can't wait for Joe's "2021 Crime Bill" which will make his 1994 crime bill look like BLM wrote it.  Other than locking up more underprivileged black citizens than were enslaved due to his bills and not much else, what do you think he will do better than Trump?  I bet you won't come up with anything.  Brainlet Simp 



White_Raven_X said:


> Presidential Transition Highlights: McConnell Congratulates Biden and Lobbies Senators to Oppose Effort to Overturn Results


 Oh, yeah, what does McConnell, Zuckerburg, Swallwell, and Biden all have in common?  They all get pegged hard by their Chinese wives/girlfriends/handlers.  With all this CCP nonsense going on, you still don't suspect that these guys have Chinese partners for a reason.  Try removing that DNC blindfold before you get pegged yourself (unless you look forward to it).


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Yeah, I bet you can't wait for Joe's "2021 Crime Bill" which will make his 1994 crime bill look like BLM wrote it.  Other than locking up more underprivileged black citizens than were enslaved due to his bills and not much else, what do you think he will do better than Trump?  I bet you won't come up with anything.  Brainlet Simp
> 
> Oh, yeah, what does McConnell, Zuckerburg, Swallwell, and Biden all have in common?  They all get pegged hard by their Chinese wives/girlfriends/handlers.  With all this CCP nonsense going on, you still don't suspect that these guys have Chinese partners for a reason.  Try removing that DNC blindfold before you get pegged yourself (unless you look forward to it).


Remember when Trump lost the 2020 Election ... You should remember he keeps losing it .. it’s already the 60th time .. maybe the 101th times the charm.... when does it start looking like a Road Runner looney tunes cartoon to all of you ... That pesky Coyote (Trump ) is not going to beat the Road Running (Biden).. no matter how much you donate for Acme gadgets.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> h, yeah, what does McConnell


...
So your angry at Mitch McConnell? 
I mean, *he is bad*
But


morvoran said:


> They all get pegged hard by their Chinese wives/girlfriends/handlers. With all this CCP nonsense going on,


that is the wrong reason to think he is bad.
Same with Zuckerberg.
Tl;dr the reason Mconnel is bad is because he is intentionally breaking democracy. Bills that get introduced in the senate that he doesn't like, due to being leader of the senate, and due to how the senate works. He can just, not let bills reach the floor. There's a lot of stuff that even you would likely get behind. I think we both agree gerrymandering is bad. there's a bill in there that would prevent that. McConnell hasn't let it reach the floor.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 21, 2020)

I love how suddenly the chineses are the scapegoat for everything and everyone with a different world view/political party is somehow connected with them. Cope harder my dudes.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, yeah, what does McConnell, Zuckerburg


Zuckerrberg is disgusting since he intentionally attacked the free press.
People found documents and evidence that he was intentionally telling people to have the algorithm to suppress left leaning content and bring out right ones more.
But that's not the only reason he's disgusting.
It's him collecting data and creating shadow profiles. Essentially profiles of people that haven't even signed up for a facebook account. From phone number, to email address, who you know. and then selling that data, I would agree it violates a right to privacy.
I think we can both agree that collecting data without peoples consent is gross.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Oh, yeah, what does McConnell, Zuckerburg, Swallwell, and Biden


Swallwell I don't honestly know enough, other than him being from califorina.
However I have many words about Biden, though really I have words about both candidates.
Biden and Trump are both cooperate sludge.
Both are mentally horrible.
Trump has forced many of his staff to change data because his words fought against the actual information collected by agencies. When he get's mad, he throws a fit. I mean littearly in the middle of a top secret briefing, he just outright asked for some fast food restaurant. Let alone him claiming he won prematurely. And the fact that I mean, if you look at how often he tweets. It's waaay too much for a sitting president who has a job.  Trump has also funneled money, tax payer money, money theft as I believe you called it once, into his businesses. He also acted as a charity at one point, and said charity had to be shutdown, because it essentially scammed people. Trump also was waaaay past friendly with Putin. Russia is not to be trusted.
Also he increased I believe it was dronestrikes/actually had more casualties than Obama did.
Biden is also bad, now I'm not certain about what specific war. But I think he was a supporter of the Vietnam war when he was a senator. As many of us know, we had no place being there. And Biden could of maaaybe done something as vice president to maybe get Obama to step down from the drone strikes instead of killing innocents. To my knowledge however, Biden hadn't. Biden also told that effectively nothing is going to change to his donors.  Along with well, his deteriorating memory.
I've had a conversation with someone who was on the right, who shifted on the left.
And... I think I understand to some extent where you guys are coming from.
Since really, when you guys argue, there is coded words or phrases being used, that to a left leaning individual, can't tell.

For example @tabzer
I found out why you where pointing out WAPO. and I really couldn't figure exactly why.
It wasn't until that person explained to me.
See with a lot of right wing arguments, it comes with baggage. Unstated baggage. and without properly dealing with it, arguments don't move on.
And the reason you were going after the WAPO. was because Jeff Bazo's owns it right?
Commonly with right leaning thought. It often comes to the right conclusion.... for the wrong reasons.



However, I want you to acknowledge something, the republican party has been using you. Democratic party as well. They are both cooperate scum parties that don't care about us.
The republican party is a party of fear. Vague terms and ideas to scare you all into doing something they want.
So I'm going to attempt to pivot this, and try to talk on your level.
For most of the arguments I've had, I was more worried about the people watching the argument, since I've deemed it as a lost cause.
Well, I'll try and see and hopefully maybe it's not. So I'm going to try to be more aware and try to deconstruct your points step by step.


----------



## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Dec 21, 2020)

Lacius said:


> With the Electoral College having cast their votes, there is no legal pathway for Trump to steal this election. The votes of the Electoral College cannot be successfully challenged without, among other things, majority support in the Democratically-controlled House, there's nothing about appointing a special counsel or instituting martial law that legally could or would overturn the election results, and Trump himself has pushed back against these options.
> 
> We can say with 100% confidence that, unless Joe Biden dies or is incapacitated between now and January 20, he will be sworn in as president on January 20. There is zero ambiguity. Anybody saying otherwise is delusional or trolling.



Okay good to know, I was of the understanding that there were still ongoing challenges.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 21, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> I love how suddenly the chineses are the scapegoat for everything and everyone with a different world view/political party is somehow connected with them. Cope harder my dudes.


This sounds like chinese disinformation.   Say hi to Xi for me, comrad.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 21, 2020)

morvoran said:


> This sounds like chinese disinformation.   Say hi to Xi for me, comrad.


he's not wrong actually.
Republican's are using the CCP as a boogieman.
CCP is bad, no doubt, mostly since it's single party and poorly treats it people.

However... The republican party is using it as a boogieman.Essentially, they intentionally try tying together two things that have no correlation, in attempts to get you to act out, and take issue with it.
For example, while communism is in the name, china is actually authoritarian capitalist.
And this comes with the second layer.
I'm going to genuinely ask you this question, in hopes you can follow my thinking.
What is communism?
as in what is it's meaning to you?
Your going to have a hard time describing it likely, since your more thinking of imaginary no doubt, and I want you to note that.
But no doubt it's bad in your mind right?
Communism=bad in your head right?
If it does, explain why to the best you possibly can.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 21, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> I love how suddenly the chineses are the scapegoat for everything and everyone with a different world view/political party is somehow connected with them. Cope harder my dudes.


You mean like Russia?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So...
> You're essentially suggesting a highly unlikely scenario, and getting frustrated with someone who disagrees with that scenario's chance...
> Yeah that seems pretty dumb



I'm not frustrated.  I'm just pointing out that he is making definite claims and generally lacks imagination.

There are still legal pathways for Trump to be declared the winner of the election, which Biden concedes.  But I suppose that it would require Biden having done something very illegal or some type of over-ruling on certification.

That's just a way.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 21, 2020)

You think YOU were cheated... lol. Just mad you couldn't cheat enough THIS TIME.. Daddy Putin didn't get you the election this year?? Boo Hoo You think you are oppressed. Lol.
What a joke.



morvoran said:


> *Yes, of course, the Proud Boys are white nationalists. Here’s why*
> The head of the Proud Boys:
> View attachment 238774



Nazi propaganda. Point proven. And ... Ahem ... you misspelt Moron... Morvoron



tabzer said:


> Race only matters if you are a democrat.  Interesting.  Maybe I don't want race to be the thing that matters about people?
> 
> The primary difference I see in racial disparity between the two extremes:  On one side, you have one "PoC" getting accolades, money and other kinds of rewards (financial and otherwise) just for saying "I'm oppressed."  Ironic, considering that they are the person being rewarded, not being oppressed.
> 
> ...



We call them Nazis because they are. Now stand by and stand down. The difference is that on the Democratic side has some semblance of decency. Although its MOSTLY lip service.  Mostly.... At least they don't work to undermine Democracy as much.. Trump is open with his Bullshit, as much as he can be.. I'll give him that. But he stands for everything wrong with the world. Not just the USA.  Unapologetically. To support Trump is to support greed, theft, dishonesty, arrogance and racism..  You all should be ashamed.  I love democracy and freedom.  Capitalism is not the most important thing. And capitalism the only core value that Trump truly supports.  Except his own ego.  Not the country he is sworn to protect.  He's trying to incite a coup instead of trying to vaccinate his citizens. What a selfish fuck. Just like his supporters.



tabzer said:


> I'm not frustrated.  I'm just pointing out that he is making definite claims and generally lacks imagination.
> 
> There are still legal pathways for Trump to be declared the winner of the election, which Biden concedes.  But I suppose that it would require Biden having done something very illegal or some type of over-ruling on certification.
> 
> That's just a way.



That sounds more like IF Trump succeeded in cheating the election. More Jokes...  You are HILARIOUS..  Bunch of criminals... or stooges. Trump deserves to be put to death for his crimes against the country. Treason carries the death penalty. 

I voted for Biden and I can prove it.  

BOTH SIDES SUCK. BUT THE RIGHT SUCKS A LOT MORE. (Unless you are a rich or a Nazi... As you all have astutely demonstrated.) Stand by and Stand down...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> At least they don't work to undermine Democracy as much.



Lol, electronic voting machines hidden behind closed-source, shutting down audits, redacting logs of flipped votes because "source code".  Ok.



mikefor20 said:


> To support Trump is to support greed, theft, dishonesty, arrogance and racism..



And supporting a free and fair election is supporting Trump.  I get it.  You project a lot of mean words but you don't actually make an argument.  Biden is not any of those, are you saying?



mikefor20 said:


> I voted for Biden and I can prove it.



No you can't.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lol, electronic voting machines hidden behind closed-source, shutting down audits, redacting logs of flipped votes because "source code".  Ok.
> 
> And supporting a free and fair election is supporting Trump.  I get it.  You project a lot of mean words but you don't actually make an argument.  Biden is not any of those, are you saying?
> 
> No you can't.



Your injustice collection is ENORMOUS!! Voting machines, yeah yeah yeah..There the same voting machines that were fine last time around when the Democrats were complaining about fraud. Iron clad according to Trump. Same voting machines that your Daddy Putin handled for you last time. What? They are too secure now and you want the code to exploit it? Give me a break.
_*
Nothing about Trump is free and fair... Unless you are a GIANT corporation and or a billionaire!
*_
But then is it really fair or is it just favorable to you? Do you truly believe your statement? I feel sorry for you. Biden is not perfect but at least he's not a dictator and Putin's bitch. Fuck Putin. Trump is too busy having his nervous breakdown and throwing tantrums to plan the virus response or run the country. Pansy assed Cheeto demon bastard.  Biden at least will respond to an imminent threat. And he might... I don't know... RUN THE FUCKING COUNTRY? He also will shut down all the Looney Tunes antics, actually denounce the KKK, make a POSITIVE change.  It's like everything Trump did was paid off under the table by some conglomerate. HE PUT EXXON IN CHARGE OF THE EPA!!! FUCK! WTF.And FYI I in fact have a copy of the ballot and my Wife took pictures of her dropping them in the slot in the polls. Got yelled at for it to by the poll worker. LOL

I'll tell you what the Trump supporters said four years ago.  "You lost! stop whining and live with it!"  And grow up, anyone who supports Trump or Qanon or any of that shit is either on the spectrum or a greedy childish selfish turd. And all that "They stole it from us " sounds so much like the confederacy. They lost too. And there are no lizard people either. lol.

Trump has committed MANY crimes while in office.  LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! Treasonous traitor! Give him the CHAIR!! or a Firing Squad! You should be enraged at what YOUR PRESIDENT has done. That's why Biden will be the 47th President after Trump resigns so Pence can pardon him. Mark my words.

Here's some food for thought.  It explains your psychological makeup and the reasons for your cognitive difficulties.  Trump supporters tend to share in your .. condition.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/health/psychology-conspiracy-theories.html


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2020)

Far out story!  Biden is going to aid you in your quest to eat the rich, and you have a wife.



mikefor20 said:


> That's why Biden will be the 47th President after Trump resigns so Pence can pardon him. Mark my words.



Marked.

Enjoyed reading about "moral superiority" and "the real political conspiracy" from the prose of a rabid dog btw.  That was unexpected.  Do you have any more material?


----------



## morvoran (Dec 21, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> Nazi propaganda. Point proven. And ... Ahem ... you misspelt Moron... Morvoron


  Oh wow, nice burn, comrad. Did you come up with that yourself or did your CCP handler write that for you?  Tell Fang Fang "hi" for me, Soygirl.

(FYI, that really wasn't a good burn)


----------



## Ottoclav (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The use of fact-checking websites to validate personal bias is evidently already problematic.
> 
> There used to be fact checkers--it was called the free press.  Now that news has become "media" and has been monopolized by oligarchical groups of people, it's safe to say that there is no free press; only a competition in controlling narrative. These fact checking websites are just another superficial layer of "the news", created only for leveraging the image of credibility under false pretenses.  They have already become meme-ish in the prevalent use of infographics without citing sources (as your post is doing).  They hide bias by using unverifiable and arbitrary scales of honesty and validate them with anecdotes.  It is intellectually dishonest to be complacent in the reliance on fact-checking websites.
> 
> There is no clear governing model to determine the scale of honesty of news organizations as many undefined variables exist.  Is one media source, that regularly and unfairly criticizes a political party, more dishonest than a mega-news corp that publishes a single grand hoax that, perhaps intentionally, crashes the economy?  Also, how is it that some things are "debunked" because of witness testimony, while witness testimony is considered hearsay in debunking others?  If there isn't consistency in fact check to fact check--it's unreliable and evidently biased.


In the words of the Bloodhound Gang, "I appreciate your input..." Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, for so eloquently formulating these paragraphs.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 21, 2020)

Kirk this thread is swarming with voteflakes!


----------



## Robika (Dec 21, 2020)

I feel this post should be closed, it is getting pretty toxic and this is a gaming community and an international one. Can we talk about how bad Kingdom Hearts 3 was?


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 21, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> he's not wrong actually.
> Republican's are using the CCP as a boogieman.
> CCP is bad, no doubt, mostly since it's single party and poorly treats it people.
> 
> ...


Exactly. There is a lot of very justified shit you can accuse china of. It becomes ridiculous when you try and blame them for things they have nothing to do with. Same goes for russia which has been the favourite enemy since forever (Trump is Putins little doggo though).


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 21, 2020)

Robika said:


> I feel this post should be closed, it is getting pretty toxic and this is a gaming community and an international one. Can we talk about how bad Kingdom Hearts 3 was?


Putting toxicity aside, why are you even in this forum, let alone thread, if you only care about gaming? lol


----------



## Lacius (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There are still legal pathways for Trump to be declared the winner of the election


There are not. Nothing you've described leads to a Trump victory. I've already explained why to you, but like other Trump supporters, you refuse to listen.



tabzer said:


> And supporting a free and fair election is supporting Trump.


To support Trump is to support an authoritarian wannabe who has openly tried to overthrow the election results solely because he lost. In other words, no, supporting Trump isn't to support "a free and fair election."


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

*Attorney General Barr says special counsel not needed for Hunter Biden investigation, undercutting Trump*
ouch, Barr just basically told Trump to go to Hell. As Barr refused to to allow special Counsel for  Election Fraud and the Hunter Biden laptop because it does not merit more time and resource because its...you know.... widely unproven Conspiracy claims. 
Still say he got fired to early, Trump still has what? 28 days to make up more stuff..


----------



## Robika (Dec 21, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Putting toxicity aside, why are you even in this forum, let alone thread, if you only care about gaming? lol


it just keeps popping up on the main page. I entered to see what this was about and it made me feel sad that you all are focusing in the negative.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Far out story!  Biden is going to aid you in your quest to eat the rich, and you have a wife.
> Marked.
> Enjoyed reading about "moral superiority" and "the real political conspiracy" from the prose of a rabid dog btw.  That was unexpected.  Do you have any more material?



Sure. Funny stuff here..

www.foxnews.com

I'm 42 with 2 kids and a my Wife and I have been together for 13 years. You were probably in daipers. You act like a High school kid anyway.




morvoran said:


> Oh wow, nice burn, comrad. Did you come up with that yourself or did your CCP handler write that for you?  Tell Fang Fang "hi" for me, Soygirl.
> 
> (FYI, that really wasn't a good burn)



I highly doubt that public opinion of you could be any lower anyway. Just pointing out the obvious!



Robika said:


> it just keeps popping up on the main page. I entered to see what this was about and it made me feel sad that you all are focusing in the negative.



Feelings... yeah yeah yeah. There is only negative when talking about Trump. Unless you are a giant company or a billionaire. His administration has committed atrocities against our country and our Earth. The rest of the world pretty much agrees.

Why are Trump supporters so proud of something they should be ashamed of? Being proud of supporting Trump is like being proud to be a meth head. Probably shouldn't keep telling people that shit. It really isn't cool.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 21, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> Sure. Funny stuff here..
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> ...



You're so edgy and cool damn. I can totally see the correlation to liking Trump and liking Meth. Something tells me you're the expert on drugs though. Also nobody asked for your life story.

"He CoMmItTeD AtRoCiTiEs AgAInst oUr CoUnTrY aNd OuR eArTh *Raging intesifies*... "Feelings...yeah yeah yeah" lol


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I can totally see the correlation to liking Trump and liking Meth.  l


I agree.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 21, 2020)

djpannda said:


> I agree.



That's because you're also a smackhead


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

.nice come back.... TOTALLY BURNED ME


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 21, 2020)

Robika said:


> I feel this post should be closed, it is getting pretty toxic and this is a gaming community and an international one. Can we talk about how bad Kingdom Hearts 3 was?


I would agree with this but there is one problem. If you close this thread shit will overflow into other threads. It's a shitfest but it serves its purpose.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There are not. Nothing you've described leads to a Trump victory. I've already explained why to you, but like other Trump supporters, you refuse to listen.
> 
> 
> To support Trump is to support an authoritarian wannabe who has openly tried to overthrow the election results solely because he lost. In other words, no, supporting Trump isn't to support "a free and fair election."



There is concrete evidence that Dominion voting machines and the handling thereof compromises the election.  Democrats have stifled any attempt of transparency into the workings and the function of Dominion machines to the public floor.

Your whole stance about what is legal presumes that there was no fraud, and puts faith behind a system of smoke and mirrors.

I've listened to you.  I don't agree.  People don't have to accept the system being like it is.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 21, 2020)

*Barr says ‘no reason’ to seize voting machines as he pushes back on Trump conspiracy theories*

*Source : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/barr-voting-machines-seize-trump-theories-b1777212.html?amp

I guess they aren't friends anymore... *


----------



## Lacius (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There is concrete evidence that Dominion voting machines and the handling thereof compromises the election.  Democrats have stifled any attempt of transparency into the workings and the function of Dominion machines to the public floor.
> 
> Your whole stance about what is legal presumes that there was no fraud, and puts faith behind a system of smoke and mirrors.
> 
> I've listened to you.  I don't agree.  People don't have to accept the system being like it is.


There is no evidence of widespread voting fraud or voting errors, and if there were, it's too late to do anything about it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 21, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence of widespread voting fraud or voting errors, and if there were, it's too late to do anything about it.



Even democrats have called the obvious fraud "voting errors".  I've heard you again.



Lacius said:


> it's too late to do anything about it



Wrong and shameful.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

White_Raven_X said:


> *Barr says ‘no reason’ to seize voting machines as he pushes back on Trump conspiracy theories*
> 
> *Source : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/barr-voting-machines-seize-trump-theories-b1777212.html?amp
> 
> I guess they aren't friends anymore... *


but the scary thought is watch after BARR steps down ....all of a sudden ... the Next AG goes " we have to look into it in case" because he caved to Trump.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Even democrats have called the obvious fraud "voting errors".  I've heard you again.
> Wrong and shameful.


at this point if there any proof it should of been brought to the lower courts... why are Republicans surprised that High court dismissed it?  when all they shown in court is Assumptions and  hypothetical situations.
For anyone who does not know how the US court system works... Assumptions and  hypothetical situations are not viable forms of proof or wrong doing.. no matter how much your crying bout losing.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Even democrats have called the obvious fraud "voting errors".  I've heard you again.


No, they have not. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud or voter error.



tabzer said:


> Wrong and shameful.


The time to do anything about alleged voter fraud was during all those court cases Trump lost, before the states certified their votes and the Electoral College voted. That was when the evidence should have been provided. The problem is there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud or voter error.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 21, 2020)

Robika said:


> I feel this post should be closed, it is getting pretty toxic and this is a gaming community and an international one. Can we talk about how bad Kingdom Hearts 3 was?



if you shut down this thread, the cancer will spread sporadically all over the place, quarantines work.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 21, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You're so edgy and cool damn. I can totally see the correlation to liking Trump and liking Meth. Something tells me you're the expert on drugs though. Also nobody asked for your life story.
> 
> "He CoMmItTeD AtRoCiTiEs AgAInst oUr CoUnTrY aNd OuR eArTh *Raging intesifies*... "Feelings...yeah yeah yeah" lol



Actually my life story was questioned as bullshit. And yeah I really don't care about feelings. This is about lives and the security of our country you little egomaniac. It's funny how you call stating facts raging LOL thanks for the laugh LOL!



tabzer said:


> There is concrete evidence that Dominion voting machines and the handling thereof compromises the election.  Democrats have stifled any attempt of transparency into the workings and the function of Dominion machines to the public floor.
> 
> Your whole stance about what is legal presumes that there was no fraud, and puts faith behind a system of smoke and mirrors.
> 
> I've listened to you.  I don't agree.  People don't have to accept the system being like it is.


The current Administration already supposedly investigated all the voter fraud back in 2016. It was fine then. According to the current Administration. Even though there was evidence of interference. It's more secure now. What's the problem? You don't like the results? Putin didn't come through this time? Go cry!



tabzer said:


> Even democrats have called the obvious fraud "voting errors".  I've heard you again.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong and shameful.



 in 2016 there was tons of voter fraud obviously. There was evidence! This time around no evidence. Just a fascist windbag trying to start a coup in order to stoke his own ego. Sad. And you're correct it is wrong and shameful. Wrong and shameful what he's doing to this country and wrong and shameful that he's not incarcerated yet. 

Soon.. soon..


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Even democrats have called the obvious fraud "voting errors".  I've heard you again.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong and shameful.


Dang you got shut down good... this happened today
*Newsmax Fact-Checks Its Own  *
*Smartmatic*
*Lies Following Legal Threats*
*And don’t forget *
*Lou Dobbs debunks his own claims of election fraud — after a legal demand from Smartmatic
... what fake garbage were  you trying to spout bout Voting machine??*


----------



## laudern (Dec 21, 2020)

Biden’s America - where a vaccine is handed out based on race, not scientifically proven need.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 21, 2020)

laudern said:


> Biden’s America - where a vaccine is handed out based on race, not scientifically proven need.


.. wait did Biden get sworn in already ..? Man that must of been a nightmare for you lol ... and wtf you talking bout cuz you know that Trumps Administration rollout plan


----------



## omgcat (Dec 21, 2020)

looks like the bullshit is finally collapsing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3ac0f2b8ceeb_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com
*Barr says he sees no reason to appoint special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden; says he won’t appoint one*


*Pro-Trump network Newsmax airs 2-minute video admitting it has 'no evidence' of outlandish fraud claims against 2 voting-machine companies*


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 21, 2020)

sorry but I've got nothing else to say at the moment!


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

Holy shoot,* Breaking News* Republicans were right bout voter fraud 
*Pennsylvania Man Charged With Voter Fraud For Casting Ballot For Trump Under Dead Mother’s Name*


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 22, 2020)

Good, the bullshit, conspiracy snowball system is finally collapsing. But Trump was unfortunately sucessful making many americans believe there was widespread fraud. And on top of that they paid part of his bills. Something is seriously wrong with the education in the US.


----------



## smf (Dec 22, 2020)

laudern said:


> Biden’s America - where a vaccine is handed out based on race, not scientifically proven need.



Everyone needs it. There is no scientifically proven order.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> Good, the bullshit, conspiracy snowball system is finally collapsing. But Trump was unfortunately sucessful making many americans believe there was widespread fraud. And on top of that they paid part of his bills. Something is seriously wrong with the education in the US.



you can trace that to the GOP being against outcome based education for years (also known as critical thinking).
here is an excerpt from the 2012 official Texas GOP platform.


"*Knowledge-Based Education–We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority*"

you'll constantly hear the GOP and conservatives do nothing but attack education as "liberal creation factories" and "elitist nonsense".

education in America is a fucking joke, a Bush appointed judge ruled that Americans have a right to education, but not a right to literacy or "good quality" education.

we are stupid and under-educated because the GOP would be fucked if we weren't a bunch of fucking mouth breathers with an inability to think 2 steps ahead, or be fooled into buying commemorative gold coins. all you need to do is look at Kentucky.

one of the best electives i ever took in highschool would NEVER be taught in the south.

it's called metacognition, and it teaches you about your learning styles, thought processes, and how to overcome learning challenges/disabilities.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> Everyone needs it. There is no scientifically proven order.



the scientific order is most at-risk to least at risk. we're not gonna go and vaccinate 9 year olds first when it's predominantly the elderly and blacks that are dying to this virus.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 22, 2020)

Wow a whole 5 hours of peace and quiet.... Awww


----------



## seany1990 (Dec 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So you want the entire vote to be determined by a few _big cities_. Interesting.



Well currently its decided by rural voters who are completely incapable of rational thought. You should actually be grateful Californians and New Yorkers came out to save you from yourself


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 22, 2020)

seany1990 said:


> Well currently its decided by rural voters who are completely incapable of rational thought. You should actually be grateful Californians and New Yorkers came out to save you from yourself


"mob rule good"


----------



## realtimesave (Dec 22, 2020)

Ugh Trump still filing a lawsuit in PA.  Talk about beating a dead horse.  Although I voted for him, GIVE UP ALREADY. heh.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> So you want the entire vote to be determined by a few _big cities_. Interesting.


Switching to a popular vote system would not cause the results of the election to be determined by "a few big cities."



UltraSUPRA said:


> "mob rule good"


"Mob rule" is what conservatives say when they're backed into the inconvenient corner of arguing against democracy.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "mob rule good"


............
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Oregon







... yea.... sure!!!


----------



## smf (Dec 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> the scientific order is most at-risk to least at risk. we're not gonna go and vaccinate 9 year olds first when it's predominantly the elderly and blacks that are dying to this virus.



You are talking about statistical observations, not scientific proof.

The elderly may not get as much benefit from the vaccine, so there is an argument for vaccinating all those people that they come into contact with first. The new strain is supposedly being transmitted by children to a greater extent now as well.

Everyone needs it and sentimentality is going to play a part in the decision. We are a long way away from scientific proof that a specific order is the one that results in less deaths.


----------



## Darksabre72 (Dec 22, 2020)

VinsCool said:


> Either winner would bring angry people.
> It's only natural.
> 
> Like they said 4 years ago, crying over something won't change it.


yea i agree but let's hope that it won't get worse (like war level worse)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lilith Valentine said:


> I’ve already said my controversial opinions on Biden in the other thread but for this one, I am just happy to see Trump lost
> View attachment 233054


seems quite a bit of people is happy about his lost, but at least it was a good fight.


----------



## morvoran (Dec 22, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> Ugh Trump still filing a lawsuit in PA. Talk about beating a dead horse. Although I voted for him, GIVE UP ALREADY. heh.


  I guess things like cheating in elections, voter fraud, and an illegitimate president in the office are just fine for you?  Until we have absolute verification that Biden won fairly, we shouldn't stop pushing for investigations.  Until our elections are completely free from fraud/cheating, we shouldn't stop fighting to make it that way.  This is true no matter what party you affiliate with.

If we are unwilling to push back on those attempting to abolish our constitution, then you might as well just chain yourself up now and give up your rights to be free.



ghjfdtg said:


> But Trump was unfortunately sucessful making many americans believe there was widespread fraud.



Even in the face of video evidence, leftist will not admit they are wrong. Picture unrelated.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Some people have trouble seeing evidence, even though their fact-checking websites debunk wide claims with a single witness account and lip-service from an official.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I guess things like cheating in elections, voter fraud, and an illegitimate president in the office are just fine for you?
> View attachment 239025


well it was fine in 2016 .,.why is are you mad about it in 2020?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I guess things like cheating in elections, voter fraud, and an illegitimate president in the office are just fine for you?  Until we have absolute verification that Biden won fairly, we shouldn't stop pushing for investigations.  Until our elections are completely free from fraud/cheating, we shouldn't stop fighting to make it that way.  This is true no matter what party you affiliate with.
> 
> If we are unwilling to push back on those attempting to abolish our constitution, then you might as well just chain yourself up now and give up your rights to be free.
> 
> ...





tabzer said:


> Some people have trouble seeing evidence, even though their fact-checking websites debunk wide claims with a single witness account and lip-service from an official.


There is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. In fact, with everything that has occurred, this is inarguably the most transparent and secure election in history. The only person trying to go against the Constitution is Donald Trump as he tries to usurp the election results and the Electoral College.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. In fact, with everything that has occurred, this is inarguably the most transparent and secure election in history.



"Arguably" as in you would still argue it even if you knew you were %100 wrong because you dislike Trump "that much".  You're "it's too late anyway" is concession.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There is zero evidence of widespread voter fraud. In fact, with everything that has occurred, this is inarguably the most transparent and secure election in history. The only person trying to go against the Constitution is Donald Trump as he tries to usurp the election results and the Electoral College.


\


tabzer said:


> "Arguably" as in you would still argue it even if you knew you were %100 wrong because you dislike Trump "that much".  You're "it's too late anyway" is concession.


what are you talking bout ? of course there was widespread voter fraud.... I mean look at all the Lawsuit Trump won about voting fraud........I mean.......Look the real evidence presenting in Court..... wait ...I don't think any real evidence was ever presented in court...

you guys do know that you have to Present evidence in court to win.. right ?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Arguably" as in you would still argue it even if you knew you were %100 wrong because you dislike Trump "that much".  You're "it's too late anyway" is concession.


If I knew something was wrong, I wouldn't argue for it. I'm sorry that's the only argument you've got left.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "Arguably" as in you would still argue it even if you knew you were %100 wrong because you dislike Trump "that much".  You're "it's too late anyway" is concession.


Just give up Tabzer, your just trolling at this point, Everyone stop replying to him, and wait for the real fools known as jimbo and Movoron, then we can Piss on them!


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Just give up Tabzer, your just trolling at this point, Everyone stop replying to him, and wait for the real fools known as jimbo and Movoron, then we can Piss on them!


jimbo and Movoron...how I miss them...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Just give up Tabzer, your just trolling at this point, Everyone stop replying to him, and wait for the real fools known as jimbo and Movoron, then we can Piss on them!



I'm not interested in hearing anything you have to say unless you want to apologize for being racist towards me.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Just give up Tabzer, your just trolling at this point, Everyone stop replying to him, and wait for the real fools known as jimbo and Movoron, then we can Piss on them!





djpannda said:


> jimbo and Movoron...how I miss them...


I have no memory of these people.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm not interested in hearing anything you have to say unless you want to apologize for being racist towards me.


Have you not read my comment? I was saying wa that a japanese boi was acting like a american, who Gave off the impression the he was american. And when you are pointing out your not just japanese, Then the only problem we have with this is gba having stuff like this. I mean, at least do something like amanda who was not doing stuff like this. Even if you don't agree with her, go with her mindset!


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm not interested in hearing anything you have to say unless you want to apologize for being racist towards me.


lol THATS EXTACTLY what 81 million  of Americans said to TRUMP lol


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I have no memory of these people.


Sad, when there were here, they were great, they gave me a pretty good laugh.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

smf said:


> You are talking about statistical observations, not scientific proof.
> 
> The elderly may not get as much benefit from the vaccine, so there is an argument for vaccinating all those people that they come into contact with first. The new strain is supposedly being transmitted by children to a greater extent now as well.
> 
> Everyone needs it and sentimentality is going to play a part in the decision. We are a long way away from scientific proof that a specific order is the one that results in less deaths.




The vaccines do not stop the spread, they stop severe symptoms. Also, last time I checked, statistics are still science...


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If I knew something was wrong, I wouldn't argue for it.



That's an unreliable self-assertation, which there is a lot less evidence of than that there is of a sham election.



Driving_duck said:


> Oh wait a minute! YOUR JAPANESE! Why should your care about this when your country is one of the least affected by either president, in fact, Trump made it worst, due to his refusal to say Golbal warming exists, and your kinda of needing that to stop your country is done. I know your republican, Ok? WE all know. But acting like your american when your not is important to this discusion, while your could give your opinions, all of this is just, WHY!



Gatekeeping the conversation because of race, and then telling me what I should think because of it.  It's so charming.  Democrats got mad at Russia because they leaked "damaging facts".   Is it the party's policy?



djpannda said:


> lol THATS EXTACTLY what 81 million of Americans said to TRUMP lol



That didn't happen.


----------



## ut2k4master (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's an unreliable self-assertation, which there is a lot less evidence of than that there is of a sham election.


too bad no one presented any of it in court, hm?


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's an unreliable self-assertation, which there is a lot less evidence of than that there is of a sham election.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know what is also charming? Your trolling! God damn man no one takes your seriously at all, why be here if no one takes your seriously? We all know Movoron and Jimbo are complete idiots who's blindly follow a cult, but you? Your just a troll, nothing more.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's an unreliable self-assertation, which there is a lot less evidence of than that there is of a sham election.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and I would hope my posts over the last 12 years have demonstrated integrity on my part.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> too bad no one presented any of it in court, hm?



It really is too bad.  It's almost as if justice in America doesn't work out very well.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It really is too bad.  It's almost as if justice in America doesn't work out very well.


Its almost as the justices are actually smart, HUH?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and I would hope my posts over the last 12 years have demonstrated integrity on my part.



There is an integrity in your not admitting when you are wrong.


----------



## ut2k4master (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It really is too bad.  It's almost as if justice in America doesn't work out very well.


ahhh, yes, that must be it. not that they didnt have any of that evidence to begin with, even though they claimed multiple times they had a ton of it. what a shame


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Driving_duck said:


> Its almost as the justices are actually smart, HUH?



Yeah, nice line.  You should frame that.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There is an integrity in your not admitting when you are wrong.


I admit when I'm wrong. I just haven't been wrong lately.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

ut2k4master said:


> ahhh, yes, that must be it. not that they didnt have any of that evidence to begin with, even though they claimed multiple times they had a ton of it. what a shame



A lot of evidence


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence


There's nothing on this website that demonstrates widespread voter fraud.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence


Then why does no one care.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I admit when I'm wrong. I just haven't been wrong lately.



Yes, your absence is missed.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence


This is just people saying that they apparently saw voter fraud. Where is the god damn evidence?


----------



## ut2k4master (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence





ut2k4master said:


> too bad no one presented any of it in court, hm?


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There is an integrity in your not admitting when you are wrong.


how bout you Prove it with Court cases.... 
I got bout 60.... 
how many you got..?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes, your absence is missed.


Respectfully, it's pretty easy to not be wrong when responding to your nonsense.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes, your absence is missed.


how SHIT I THINK JIMBO was reincarnated into Tabzer
...as https://hereistheevidence.com is a personal blog/website that Bumblef#CK MCGEE made that allowed people to Troll them with response..
Once again put up court cases .... not a website that I could of made with made up stuff from random people


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> how SHIT I THINK JIMBO was reincarnated into Tabzer
> ...as https://hereistheevidence.com is a personal blog/website that Bumblef#CK MCGEE made that allowed people to Troll them with response..
> Once again put up court cases or not people recording random people


You know, if jimbo died, and tabzers was channeling his spirit between each of the dumb MAGAs, I would not be surprised at all.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence


if you believe random websites.. I got an official one for you

donaldjtrump2024.com <- def click it !!


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> if you believe random websites.. I got an official one for you
> 
> donaldjtrump2024.com <- def click it !!


Oh yeah that one is a classic, its gives so much information to what is happening during this election.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Respectfully, it's pretty easy to not be wrong when responding to your nonsense.



Lying is not beyond you, so I don't really know the basis of your moral compass.  Objectively, you've been wrong every time you say there's zero evidence or that Covid has killed 310,000 Americans.  Even when presented with evidence, and facts (respectfully), you ignore that you are contradicting.


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lying is not beyond you, so I don't really know the basis of your moral compass.  Objectively, you've been wrong every time you say there's zero evidence or that Covid has killed 310,000 Americans.  Even when presented with evidence, and facts (respectfully), you ignore that you are contradicting.


What tha? IS there something wrong with you? Did you get so much brain damage as a kid that you don't believe that 310,000 people died from covid? Now we got prove your a troll. Still is funny to mess with you though.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lying is not beyond you, so I don't really know the basis of your moral compass.  Objectively, you've been wrong every time you say there's zero evidence or that Covid has killed 310,000 Americans.  Even when presented with evidence, and facts (respectfully), you ignore that you are contradicting.



someones needs a snickers


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Lying is not beyond you, so I don't really know the basis of your moral compass.


My posts speak for themselves, and I no longer wish to discuss my own character. I'm not that interesting. Anything else you have to say about me in particular should be specific and backed up.



tabzer said:


> Objectively, you've been wrong every time you say there's zero evidence


Nobody in the world has presented any evidence of widespread voter fraud, and the courts (progressive and conservative) agree.



tabzer said:


> or that Covid has killed 310,000 Americans.


I gave you a website (https://covidtracking.com/data) that estimates approximately 310,000 Americans have died of COVID-19, and it cites its sources. Your own source from the CDC (which my source uses) estimates at least 276,061 Americans have died from COVID-19 as of December 16.



tabzer said:


> Even when presented with evidence, and facts (respectfully), you ignore that you are contradicting.


I haven't contradicted myself, if that's what you're saying. Respectfully, it's difficult to tell what exactly you're arguing here. You seem frazzled. Are you okay?


----------



## Driving_duck (Dec 22, 2020)

Hey guys, i have a great idea, what about we all have to make it mandatory for MAGAs to have this tattooed on their forehead!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Nobody in the world has presented any evidence of widespread voter fraud, and the courts (progressive and conservative) agree.



The courts don't have the jurisdiction to agree with your statement.



Lacius said:


> I gave you a website (https://covidtracking.com/data) that estimates approximately 310,000 Americans have died of COVID-19, and it cites its sources. Your own source from the CDC (which my source uses) estimates at least 276,061 Americans have died from COVID-19 as of December 16.



Total fatalities with confirmed OR probable COVID-19 case diagnosis =/= Death because of Covid.  It's right in the definition of your own source.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> The courts don't have the jurisdiction to agree with your statement.


The courts absolutely have the jurisdiction to rule on whether or not they've been presented with evidence of widespread voter fraud, unless you're giving away the game and telling us that the point of the Trump court cases was not to present evidence of widespread voter fraud.



tabzer said:


> Total fatalities with confirmed OR probable COVID-19 case diagnosis =/= Death because of Covid.  It's right in the definition of your own source.





> *Deaths (confirmed and probable):*
> Total fatalities with confirmed OR probable COVID-19 case diagnosis (per the expanded CSTE case definition of April 5th, 2020 approved by the CDC). In some states, these individuals must also have COVID-19 listed on the death certificate to count as a COVID-19 death. When states post multiple numbers for fatalities, the metric includes only deaths with COVID-19 listed on the death certificate, unless deaths among cases is a more reliable metric in the state.


In other words, estimated COVID-19 deaths.

It's like you're not even trying anymore. I think tabzer is melting or something. Is this one of those "clap if you believe to restore him" situations? If so, forgive me if I remain motionless.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> In other words, estimated COVID-19 deaths.



It doesn't say that either.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It doesn't say that either.


That's why I said "in *other *words." Whoops, tabzer's meltdown has gotten to the point that he can't read anymore.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> That's why I said "in *other *words." Whoops, tabzer's meltdown has gotten to the point that he can't read anymore.



So if Eric Garner had covid-19, that means he was another fatality due to that?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So if Eric Garner had covid-19, that means he was another fatality due to that?


If he had COVID-19 and died from it, yeah. lol


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> If he had COVID-19 and died from it, yeah. lol



But all that's necessary is that it is on his death certificate.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> But all that's necessary is that it is on his death certificate.


Yeah, as a cause of death. Lol, are you trying anymore?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Yeah, as a cause of death. Lol, are you trying anymore?



So, if on his death certificate, he died of asthma with covid-19 being connected as a comorbidity, or vice-versa--would you make the argument that a cop didn't kill him?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> So, if on his death certificate, he died of asthma with covid-19 being connected as a comorbidity, or vice-versa--would you make the argument that a cop didn't kill him?


Eric Garner would have died with or without COVID-19.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 22, 2020)

It's almost like i called it when i said in an earlier post people will think the courts are currupt next. The grasping at straws and coping is real high in here.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Eric Garner would have died with or without COVID-19.



That's not the question.  But it seems you notice the contradiction.



ghjfdtg said:


> It's almost like i called it when i said in an earlier post people will think the courts are currupt next. The grasping at straws and coping is real high in here.



Some courts are corrupt.  I don't know the status of each case, or if Trump ever intended to win a court case.  AFAIK, they aren't even "his cases".  I personally can't fathom why Dominion forensic reports haven't hit the floor and why there hasn't been a stronger investigation of Dominion machines as a whole.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's not the question.  But it seems you notice the contradiction.


Eric Garner, hypothetically, would have been killed BY the police officer, with or without COVID-19. I answered your question. I forgot your meltdown started to take away your literacy.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Eric Garner, hypothetically, would have been killed the police officer, with or without COVID-19. I answered your question. I forgot your meltdown started to take away your literacy.



Ironic


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ironic


I don't think you know what _irony _is.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Eric Garner, hypothetically, would have *been killed the police officer*






Lacius said:


> I forgot your meltdown started to take away *your literacy*.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


That's fair. We're both illiterate fuckers.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

There's also the notion that if Eric Garner does have Covid-19 on his death certificate, be it just or not, that you are including him in your statistic.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There's also the notion that if Eric Garner does have Covid-19 on his death certificate, be it just or not, that you are including him in your statistic.


I don't think anyone is arguing that "unjust" COVID-19 death classifications should count. The problem with your argument is there's no evidence of widespread misclassifications. Coming up with hypothetical misclassifications doesn't demonstrate actual misclassifications.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

This ones funny.  Trump is going rabid and turning on everyone! lol you guys should really look at Lincoln Project videos  some of them are ridiculously funny as it torments Trump
*Trump turns on Pence as Lincoln Project ad ‘gets in his head’*


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing that "unjust" COVID-19 death classifications should count. The problem with your argument is there's no evidence of widespread misclassifications. Coming up with hypothetical misclassifications doesn't demonstrate actual misclassifications.



I see injustice in America being widespread, and maybe it's my bias, but I think it's an ever-growing trend which its grime eventually creeps into all of gears and spokes that perpetuate it.  The question of the breaking point occurring is not, "if" but "when?"


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I see injustice in America being widespread, and maybe it's my bias, but I think it's an ever-growing trend which its grime that creeps into all of system that perpetuates it.  The question of the breaking point occurring is not, "if" but "when?"


When you see things (election fraud, medical fraud, etc.) when there's no evidence of these things, being biased sounds like a good explanation to me.

To be reasonable, the time to believe something is true is when there's evidence that the thing is true.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

What I see is evidence, but it would not be reasonable to expect it to be supported by the system and the people that would suffer from it.  It looks like a catch-22.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> What I see is evidence, but it would not be reasonable to expect it to be supported by the system and the people that would suffer from it.  It looks like a catch-22.


Whether or not something is actually evidence of a claim is objective, not subjective. So far, you've objectively provided no evidence of widespread voter fraud, etc.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I see injustice in America being widespread, and maybe it's my bias, but I think it's an ever-growing trend which its grime eventually creeps into all of gears and spokes that perpetuate it.  The question of the breaking point occurring is not, "if" but "when?"


your right "injustice in America being widespread" I Guess that why BLM happened... who would of thought that Minorities don't like being treated like 2nd class citizens


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Whether or not something is actually evidence of a claim is objective, not subjective. So far, you've objectively provided no evidence of widespread voter fraud, etc.


I have objectively provided evidence.  The presentation is moot, because it doesn't change anything all by itself.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I have objectively provided evidence.  The presentation is moot, because it doesn't change anything all by itself.


You've objectively provided something you call evidence. Whether or not it demonstrates claims of widespread voter fraud, etc. (it doesn't) is another story.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> your right "injustice in America being widespread" I Guess that why BLM happened... who would of thought that Minorities don't like being treated like 2nd class citizens


I never contested that, and it's true that BLM is a symptom of that.  Please don't frame it as if I said anything despairing toward minorities.



Lacius said:


> You've objectively provided something you call evidence. Whether or not it demonstrates claims of widespread voter fraud, etc. (it doesn't) is another story.


Well, in your case, accepting it as evidence would be harmful toward what you want--which really isn't about the matter of evidence.  In the matter of the courts, it's just not accessible to me.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I never contested that, and it's true that BLM is a symptom of that.  Please don't frame it as if I said anything despairing toward minorities.
> 
> 
> Well, in your case, accepting it as evidence would be harmful toward what you want--which really isn't about the matter of evidence.  In the matter of the courts, it's just not accessible to me.


Your touching on the topic of my character again, which I don't want to do. In reality, what I want to be true is irrelevant. All that matters is the truth.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I never contested that, and it's true that BLM is a symptom of that.  Please don't frame it as if I said anything despairing toward minorities.


...oh I am sorry I thought when you said "injustice in America" I thought you were talking bout a REAL issue like how Minorities are treated ,not a made up issue like "voter Fraud"..
I apologized  Please keep providing invalid arguments that have no basis in fact..


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

welp Trump and the GOP are getting sued for violations of the KKK act by suppressing black voters.

*Trump and GOP sued for breaching KKK act with ‘coordinated conspiracy to disenfranchise Black voters’*

Basically claiming that predominantly black areas have excessive fraud and need to have their votes thrown out without any actionable evidence constitutes a violation of the KKK act through an attempted systematic disenfranchisement of people of color.

I was honestly wondering when the counter suits would start happening, and seeing what happened with Newsmax, Fox, and OANN, they are probably pretty fucked, especially since sitting presidential immunity for trump runs out in less than 30 days.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

Lacius said:


> what I want to be true is irrelevant



That's not true about people.



Lacius said:


> All that matters is the truth.



It appears as a false platitude.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's not true about people.
> 
> 
> 
> It appears as a false platitude.


.. so sad.. your not even trying anymore..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

djpannda said:


> ...oh I am sorry I thought when you said "injustice in America" I thought you were talking bout a REAL issue like how Minorities are treated ,not a made up issue like "voter Fraud"..
> I apologized  Please keep providing invalid arguments that have no basis in fact..



Treatment of minorities isn't the only injustice.  A lot of that is perpetuated by the politicians that gain from dividing its subjects against each other.



djpannda said:


> .. so sad.. your not even trying anymore..



I'm falling asleep.

But please tell me how the Covid-19 vaccine is just as safe as the flu vaccine.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Treatment of minorities isn't the only injustice.  A lot of that is perpetuated by the politicians that gain from dividing its subjects against each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OH SHIT, I think I leveled up and advance the story in the RPG, The NPC is saying New stuff. 


"where can I find the key to the Dungeon?


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Treatment of minorities isn't the only injustice.  A lot of that is perpetuated by the politicians that gain from dividing its subjects against each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



because it made it through all 3 phases of testing, involving 30k+ people and has been approved internationally. oh and the fact that the entire planet has been working on it, rather than just 1 country. If it was so dangerous, why are senior GOP  members (marco rubio, white house staffers, ect) jumping the line to get it when this virus was supposed to be a hoax in the first place? fuck even rupert murdoc got the vaccine early even though his networks have done nothing but claim that covid is fake/not dangerous.

hell the vaccine was safe enough to give to the president elect and his wife on live television.

oh shit, vice president mike pence got it done on TV as well.

remind me again how this isn't safe.

even covid monger Mitch McConnell is getting the vaccine.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> because it made it through all 3 phases of testing, involving 30k+ people and has been approved internationally. oh and the fact that the entire planet has been working on it, rather than just 1 country. If it was so dangerous, why are senior GOP  members (marco rubio, white house staffers, ect) jumping the line to get it when this virus was supposed to be a hoax in the first place? fuck even rupert murdoc got the vaccine early even though his networks have done nothing but claim that covid is fake/not dangerous.
> 
> hell the vaccine was safe enough to give to the president elect and his wife on live television.
> 
> ...



Not my argument.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> OANN


Have they said anything yet or are they still entertaining widespread fraud?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Have they said anything yet or are they still entertaining widespread fraud?



I think that's the last media haven.  But I don't know.  It's an interesting loophole.  If you can't criticize the government, it's tyranny.  But you can't talk bad about the voting environment, because a private company will sue you.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 22, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Have they said anything yet or are they still entertaining widespread fraud?


is any one having issue accessing  www.oann.com?
DID they get taken down...oh no

Update:: wishful thinking back up


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Not my argument.



oh, you mean the 6 cases so far out of the 2.6 million doses administered so far?

so far you have a 3/1300000 chance of having an anaphylactic reaction to the covid vaccine, that's the same risk as having an anaphylactic reaction to Tylenol, alcohol, or literally any other drug. also an epipen will clear that right up.

your scared of a .000230769231% chance of having a reaction that is fixable with a damn epipen which all Dr's offices are legally required to have on hand.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> is any one having issue accessing  www.oann.com?
> DID they get taken down...oh no
> 
> Update:: wishful thinking back up



yeah, their database crashed.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> oh, you mean the 6 cases so far out of the 2.6 million doses administered so far?
> 
> so far you have a 3/1300000 chance of having an anaphylactic reaction to the covid vaccine, that's the same risk as having an anaphylactic reaction to Tylenol, alcohol, or literally any other drug. also an epipen will clear that right up.
> 
> your scared of a .000230769231% chance of having a reaction that is fixable with a damn epipen which all Dr's offices are legally required to have on hand.




Feel free to continue the discussion in that thread.  You are discarding what has been said and attacking a strawman.  I wasn't making an argument that people should or should not take it.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Feel free to continue the discussion in that thread.  You are discarding what has been said and attacking a strawman.  I wasn't making an argument that people should or should not take it.



then what are you arguing?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

omgcat said:


> then what are you arguing?


Read the thread.  Then respond.  I linked it.


----------



## omgcat (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Read the thread.  Then respond.  I linked it.



or you could just clearly type out your argument like a normal person?

that thread is literally a poll asking if people will or won't take the vaccine. what possible argument could you be making other than "don't take the vaccine cause it causes problems"?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 22, 2020)

It's not reasonable for me to type out the context, the objection, and the argument/outcome when I just showed you where it is.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 22, 2020)

Look at what I found!


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 22, 2020)

smf said:


> You are talking about statistical observations, not scientific proof


wait... How? You do realize that enough statistical observations IS scientific proof. Saying that isn't is kinda insane.
We already know that elderly is at risk. Given that their immune systems, through statistical observation is weaker. The black community is disproportional effected due to wealth distribution being generally unequal. The amount of money you have access to can effect a lot of your heath, since it limits purchasing options. This would also mean that they are disproportionately going to have health issues, which covid will happily exploit.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> That's not true about people.
> 
> 
> 
> It appears as a false platitude.


How is this post any better than "nuh uh"?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence


bruh...
I literately debunked that site... only a few pages ago...
Just because the boy cries wolf, and a court case is filed, or someone says it happen
*doesn't mean it did happen*
you need to prove that it did. 
again, reminder, the courts are stacked in Trumps favor if they were to be partisan. And even they dismissed his cases. Trump has appointed over 300 judges on lower courts (than the supreme court)
59 of those cases were thrown out. with 1 actually listened to, but that wasn't trying to prove *widespread *voter fraud in that one specific case.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 22, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Look at what I found!
> View attachment 239063


Next time, I suggest you look at actual scientific studies, not memes. I can't tell if you're being stupid or if you're being deceptive. When you go looking for a particular conclusion rather than the truth, you're being dishonest.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 22, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I see injustice in America being widespread


What specific injustices are you referring to? Outside of your claims that widespread voter fraud happened, which as plenty said, isn't true.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> bruh...
> I literately debunked that site... only a few pages ago...
> Just because the boy cries wolf, and a court case is filed, or someone says it happen
> *doesn't mean it did happen*
> ...


Are you surprised @tabzer posted debunked nonsense?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Look at what I found!
> View attachment 239063


Do I really want to respond to a image that promoting false information
_sigh_
Alright.
So the reason that doesn't work is that United States has been under testing for a long while. Regardless of their number of reported cases of people who have covid. due to under testing it actually would be high.
So consider that there is many people who got covid, and don't know about it. Mask mandate is set down. For those two weeks, the number would become inflated due to not having enough testing. Making it look like masks don't work.



also by the time mask mandates where point down (and depending on enforcement), there was way more infectious people as well due to being later in the pandemic, which would also proceed to boost the amount of unrepresented cases of covid


----------



## djpannda (Dec 23, 2020)

And it begins 
*Dominion Voting Systems Employee Sues Trump Campaign And Allies For Defamation*
You see boys and MAGA, if you say enough lies without proof  you will get sued and lose


----------



## Lacius (Dec 23, 2020)

And it begins...
*Trump announces wave of pardons, including Papadopoulos and former lawmakers Hunter and Collins*
*https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/politics/trump-pardons/index.html*


----------



## djpannda (Dec 23, 2020)

Lacius said:


> And it begins...
> *Trump announces wave of pardons, including Papadopoulos and former lawmakers Hunter and Collins*
> *https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/politics/trump-pardons/index.html*


Lol “and it begins..” should be a a new series for the next 29 days


----------



## realtimesave (Dec 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I guess things like cheating in elections, voter fraud, and an illegitimate president in the office are just fine for you?
> View attachment 239025



Yes.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> bruh...
> I literately debunked that site... only a few pages ago...
> Just because the boy cries wolf, and a court case is filed, or someone says it happen
> *doesn't mean it did happen*
> ...



You haven't debunked anything I posted.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 23, 2020)

Found the fraud.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

tabzer said:


> You haven't debunked anything I posted.





tabzer said:


> A lot of evidence





monkeyman4412 said:


> challenge accepted. Don't be sad that I broke you kneecaps in this one.
> so the source is https://www.depernolaw.com/
> Going to the root, shows us that it's from attorney who's name is  Matthew S. DePerno, Esq.
> No issue right?
> ...





monkeyman4412 said:


> So, fox news
> View attachment 238065
> Should I had been surprised?
> Okay next is truthout
> ...


In other words "here's the evidence" uses evidence from websites that ALREADY can't be trusted. depernolaw links to that website and I specifically debunk "here's the evidence" So yes this is relevant in this case


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> wait... How? You do realize that enough statistical observations IS scientific proof. Saying that isn't is kinda insane.



It's really not. Scientific proof of an order would have to consider more than just who was at risk, but who is likely to spread it and who is going to get symptoms bad enough that they die.

We don't know yet whether the vaccines prevent asymptomatic spreading. We don't know whether different racial groups are more likely to die because of genetics or economic. There is promising research into gene testing for people who are more likely to get bad symptoms and they are now trying to figure out if those are more prevalent in different communities.

If you focus on the broad at risk groups first then you could end up with a lot of super spreaders and mutations that the vaccine is ineffective for.

But we are where we are, they have some statistical observations and that is what they are likely to go with.

Bottom line, everyone has to have it.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

smf said:


> It's really not. Scientific proof of an order would have to consider more than just who was at risk, but who is likely to spread it and who is going to get symptoms bad enough that they die.


are we seriously going to play the cut off sentences game.


monkeyman4412 said:


> wait... How? You do realize that enough statistical observations IS scientific proof. Saying that isn't is kinda insane.
> We already know that elderly is at risk. Given that their immune systems, through statistical observation is weaker. The black community is disproportional effected due to wealth distribution being generally unequal. The amount of money you have access to can effect a lot of your heath, since it limits purchasing options. This would also mean that they are disproportionately going to have health issues, which covid will happily exploit.


When you make a proper correlation through enough data, yes statistical proof can become scientific proof. Not all things correlate into causation. However given enough evidence through data and observation, that enables said proof.

Noticing that black communities are poorer in previous studies, and noting that black people are more dis-proportionally effected by obesity, (likely due to the lack of fiances, and poorer education due to cities funding black community schools less) combined with covid's better ability to kill when there is a comorbidity. Makes it that yes, Black communities are at higher risk. Elderly are also at higher risk considering their age. Their immune systems generally speaking do not perform as well as younger people. A RNA based vaccine would be both their best chance since it wouldn't be infecting t





smf said:


> Bottom line, everyone has to have it.


I agree that everyone does. However if they had to enroll it out slowly(which seems like it might be the case), they would want to focus on high risk groups first.


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> However if they had to enroll it out slowly(which seems like it might be the case), they would want to focus on high risk groups first.



Right, but that is more for sentimental reasons and lack of scientific evidence of individuals who should be given priority. Not all 80+ year olds die, not everyone who died was over 80. It's a best efforts guess, don't mistake that for scientific proof. It's really hard to prove something scientifically.

It wouldn't surprise me if in a few years time if someone came up with evidence that we should have vaccinated the children first.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

smf said:


> more for sentimental reasons and lack of scientific evidence


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/older-adults.html
"Risk for severe illness with COVID-19 increases with age, with older adults at highest risk."
This isn't sentimental, there is  no "lack of scientific evidence"


smf said:


> Not all 80+ year olds die, not everyone who died was over 80


wow... Do you have any idea how bad this logical fallacy is?
Not all 3 year olds drown in a pool. And not everyone who drowned was over 3.
I think this highlights your thinking. It's exceptionally flawed, and incredibly stupid.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

if Group A have x trait.(younger age)
And Group B have a different but related trait. (older age)
We then look between the effects of a virus on group A and B.
We can statistically see that as a probability number. For the sake of making this easy, I'm going to make it outlandish. If group B had 75/100 be infected and died. And Group A had 50/100 become infected and died. And this was through one exposure. (though really it isn't realistic, because irl doesn't work like that/it's unlikely to only be exposed once irl)
it stands to reason Group B is at higher risk. That's just probability.


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I think this highlights your thinking. It's exceptionally flawed, and incredibly stupid.



Resorting to insults means you are struggling with your argument.



monkeyman4412 said:


> it stands to reason Group B is at higher risk. That's just probability.



Right, but you are forgetting that the vaccine doesn't affect everyone equally. So it may just reduce Group B's chance of dying by 10%, while vaccinating Group A who come into contact with Group B might prevent them getting infected which could reduce Group B's chance of dying by 100%.

“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river.
We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in.”
― Desmond Tutu


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

smf said:


> Resorting to insults means you are struggling with your argument.


Okay then. I ask, if me making a rhetorical remark like that changes how stupid this specific argument is


smf said:


> Not all 80+ year olds die, not everyone who died was over 80.





monkeyman4412 said:


> Not all 3 year olds drown in a pool. And not everyone who drowned was over 3.


moving on.


smf said:


> Right, but you are forgetting that the vaccine doesn't affect everyone equally.



Your source for that it wouldn't apply equally?  It's a rna based vaccine. Usually how that works it includes the tag proteins (not the official name.) that acts as unique markers the immune system uses to detect viruses. It's not introducing the virus itself in any significant capacity. Meaning it should effect groups roughly the same regardless of comorbidity or not.


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Your source for that it wouldn't apply equally?  It's a rna based vaccine. Usually how that works it includes the tag proteins (not the official name.) that acts as unique markers the immune system uses to detect viruses.



https://theconversation.com/why-vac...elderly-and-what-it-means-for-covid-19-141971

_Immunosenescence also results in diminished responses to vaccination. Indeed, annual flu vaccines are notoriously less effective in the elderly. This phenomenon is very important in the context of the massive efforts and funds being invested worldwide into the ultra-rapid development of vaccines for COVID-19.
_
We don't have enough evidence yet to know what will happen with an rna vaccine, we've never rolled one out before. 

The length of time it takes to vaccinate everyone we could end up with a mutation that makes the current vaccine ineffective, you can't know who to vaccinate to prevent that happening.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

smf said:


> https://theconversation.com/why-vac...elderly-and-what-it-means-for-covid-19-141971
> 
> _Immunosenescence also results in diminished responses to vaccination. Indeed, annual flu vaccines are notoriously less effective in the elderly. This phenomenon is very important in the context of the massive efforts and funds being invested worldwide into the ultra-rapid development of vaccines for COVID-19._.


Fair enough then. In my personal opinion, (no longer arguing fact) still would be better to at least give them a fighting chance.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

wait... no actually

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> Right, but you are forgetting that the vaccine doesn't affect everyone equally.


your kinda wrong and right on this statement. Yes the vaccine would effect everyone equally. it just wouldn't be effective on everyone since it relies on their immune systems.


Saying that it doesn't effect everyone equally would imply the vaccine itself has issues. Not the immune system. regardless outside of that it's fine your statement holds up.



to clarify what I'm saying. You can give everyone a tool (the vaccine) and the presence of that tool effects everyone equally. But it doesn't mean said tool can be used efficiently by everyone (immune response)


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Fair enough then. In my personal opinion, (no longer arguing fact) still would be better to at least give them a fighting chance.



That is the sentimentality & they might try to do that but transporting the vaccine out to the vulnerable is hard and moving them hundreds of miles to get the vaccine puts them at greater risk.

If you're old and near where the vaccines are being administered then you're likely to be first. But carers that need to travel will likely get it before the people they care for.



monkeyman4412 said:


> to clarify what I'm saying. You can give everyone a tool (the vaccine) and the presence of that tool effects everyone equally. But it doesn't mean said tool can be used efficiently by everyone (immune response)



The change that is affected by the vaccine is surely the immune response?


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

smf said:


> The change that is affected by the vaccine is surely the immune response?





monkeyman4412 said:


> your kinda wrong and right on this statement. Yes the vaccine would effect everyone equally. it just wouldn't be effective on everyone since it relies on their immune systems.
> 
> 
> Saying that it doesn't effect everyone equally would imply the vaccine itself has issues. Not the immune system. regardless outside of that it's fine your statement holds up.


I was trying to use an example to clarify this statement, guess it made it more confusing.


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I was trying to use an example to clarify this statement, guess it made it more confusing.



Well I disagree that it affects everyone equally, if the immune response is different in each person as that is the effect that is relevant in this discussion.

There are also side effects which affect people differently, the only one I know about is for swelling when people have had cosmetic fillers. I don't know if I would change the order based on that though.

I'm not saying I have a better order to give the vaccine, like everything else we just muddle through with (hopefully) best intentions while making mistakes.

I would trust Biden more than Trump to have best intentions.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 23, 2020)

smf said:


> Well I disagree that it affects everyone equally, if the immune response is different in each person as that is the effect that is relevant in this discussion.


Well in the specific context of vaccines


smf said:


> Right, but you are forgetting that the vaccine doesn't affect everyone equally.


due to anti vaxxer movements and shit. This could be misunderstood as "the vaccine itself is the problem" not "immune system is the problem"
That's mostly my worry and why I initially took issue with it. Your not wrong though.


----------



## smf (Dec 23, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> due to anti vaxxer movements and shit. This could be misunderstood as "the vaccine itself is the problem" not "immune system is the problem"



I don't see how, if you're anti vaccine then how effective it is for each person is irrelevant. No vaccine is going to be less effective.

But every vaccine and drug affects people differently because we're subtlety different, it's just chemistry & biology.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 23, 2020)

hey looks like Team Trump gave up....
I mean no.. _*Keep Fighting for TRUMP*_*'*s bank account, *Please donate $5 to Keep Trump*'s scam alive. 

*Trump White House staffers receive departure instructions *


----------



## morvoran (Dec 23, 2020)

Wow, Trump vetoes that pitiful pork filled bill screwing over the American people and demands $2000 for each individual, and Biden says more racist stuff.
I'm sure you leftists and RINO doomers are so happy that the Dominion machines voted that racist brainlet into office. 
Good news is that several battleground states are having hearings to decertify their illegal Electoral votes.

If any of you brainlets think this was taken out of context, please try putting it into context for the rest of us.

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/i/status/1341664209210200064


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wow, Trump vetoes that pitiful pork filled bill screwing over the American people and demands $2000 for each individual, and Biden says more racist stuff.
> I'm sure you leftists and RINO doomers are so happy that the Dominion machines voted that racist brainlet into office.
> Good news is that several battleground states are having hearings to decertify their illegal Electoral votes.
> 
> ...



Lmao. Gtfo of here with that bullshit. Let's hear the entire conversation instead of a what is 100% obviously a clip taken completely out of context. But you know as well as everyone else, RepubliCONS are great at media manipulation. They've done it many times over yet they're the big FAKE NEWS crybabies, constantly posting fake news.

Edit: "If any of you brainlets think this was taken out of context, please try putting it into context for the rest of us." That doesn't even make any fucking sense. If it's out of context, it's out of context. Period. Sorry facts are so difficult for you.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wow, Trump vetoes that pitiful pork filled bill screwing over the American people and demands $2000 for each individual, and Biden says more racist stuff.
> I'm sure you leftists and RINO doomers are so happy that the Dominion machines voted that racist brainlet into office.
> Good news is that several battleground states are having hearings to decertify their illegal Electoral votes.
> 
> ...


I recommend checking the context of something before posting about it. That way, you'll look a lot less like an idiot.

_"...If we cannot make significant progress on racial equity, this country is doomed. It is doomed. Not just because of African Americans, but because by 2040, this country is going to be minority white European."

_


----------



## djpannda (Dec 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wow, Trump vetoes that pitiful pork filled bill screwing over the American people and demands $2000 for each individual, and Biden says more racist stuff.
> I'm sure you leftists and RINO doomers are so happy that the Dominion machines voted that racist brainlet into office


.yes.. I am This is very bizarre. Lou Dobbs ran a segment tonight basically debunking his own lies about Smartmatic voting machines pic.twitter.com/FDM91SPtT1— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 19, 2020


----------



## mammastuffing (Dec 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> If any of you brainlets think this was taken out of context, please try putting it into context for the rest of us.



I'm not going to try to put this into context because that would only be speculative. And it is not up to me to provide the context. That burden lies on the person who "leaked" the video.

But I would really like to know the context. Because this is 26 seconds of a meeting or whatever it is that is probably way longer than that. Why was only these 26 seconds "leaked"? Where is the rest? It is suspicious and I am not convinced that this is NOT taken out of context.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 23, 2020)

mammastuffing said:


> I'm not going to try to put this into context because that would only be speculative. And it is not up to me to provide the context. That burden lies on the person who "leaked" the video.
> 
> But I would really like to know the context. Because this is 26 seconds of a meeting or whatever it is that is probably way longer than that. Why was only these 26 seconds "leaked"? Where is the rest? It is suspicious and I am not convinced that this is NOT taken out of context.


I already posted the entire video and a transcript of the context. @morvoran ? More like *moron*ran. Mor*moran*? I couldn't pick.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 23, 2020)

morvoran said:


> Wow, Trump vetoes that pitiful pork filled bill screwing over the American people and demands $2000 for each individual, and Biden says more racist stuff.
> I'm sure you leftists and RINO doomers are so happy that the Dominion machines voted that racist brainlet into office.
> Good news is that several battleground states are having hearings to decertify their illegal Electoral votes.
> 
> If any of you brainlets think this was taken out of context, please try putting it into context for the rest of us.


_"If we cannot make significant progress on racial equity, this country is doomed. It is doomed." 
is that a record, it was debunked in like 26 seconds!!!_

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


yea @morvoran got corny... he post stupid shit and runs before he's called out on it.... Granted Im pretty he blocked most people.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 23, 2020)

Top Republican HUMILIATES Sidney Powell ON FOX NEWS
This video shows the Republican Party finally throwing Sidney Powell and the COO COO theories under the bus.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 23, 2020)

Waiting for @morvoran  to comment on their fake news post that's already been proven completely out of context. What do you have to say about it now that you've been proven to be spreading lies?


----------



## Lacius (Dec 23, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Waiting for @morvoran  to comment on their fake news post that's already been proven completely out of context. What do you have to say about it now that you've been proven to be spreading lies?


I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Dec 23, 2020)

..... Those republicans... Only listening to the "*part*" that they want to hear. I also believe that being an "informed person" , means that you actually listen to *BOTH SIDES* before making a opinion/choice/judgment.


----------



## Foxi4 (Dec 24, 2020)

Hmm, let's see, 17 deleted posts so far. Good going, guys.

The next person who calls someone a commie, a nazi, a moron or any other insult is going on a holiday. If you are unable to have a civil conversation without throwing mud at each other, you're not going to have a discussion at all. I'm sure you can have an exchange of ideas without demonising the other side.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Dec 25, 2020)

Foxi4 said:


> Hmm, let's see, 17 deleted posts so far. Good going, guys.
> 
> The next person who calls someone a commie, a nazi, a moron or any other insult is going on a holiday. If you are unable to have a civil conversation without throwing mud at each other, you're not going to have a discussion at all. I'm sure you can have an exchange of ideas without demonising the other side.


Don't Censor Me! 

JK Foxi4, you're doing your job well and I was out of order. Happy holidays.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Waiting for @morvoran  to comment on their fake news post that's already been proven completely out of context. What do you have to say about it now that you've been proven to be spreading lies?



Even in context, it's still horrible race-baiting fear tactics.  Just because he said something like, "we are fighting for racial equality" beforehand doesn't mean what he said wasn't completely racist.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Even in context, it's still horrible race-baiting fear tactics.  Just because he said something like, "we are fighting for racial equality" beforehand doesn't mean what he said wasn't completely racist.



Just because you say it was racist, doesn't mean what he was was racist. See how that works? Pretty easy game to play. Have anything a bit more difficult than a fucking 2 piece jigsaw puzzle?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Just because you say it was racist, doesn't mean what he was was racist. See how that works? Pretty easy game to play. Have anything a bit more difficult than a fucking 2 piece jigsaw puzzle?



It's racist to use racial identity to antagonize people/provoke them to act.  It's in the definition.  It's not a puzzle.  The puzzle is figuring why you defend it.

@Xzi has already stated that it's okay to be racist as long as it's subtle enough.  Do you agree?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> It's racist to use racial identity to antagonize people/provoke them to act.  It's in the definition.  It's not a puzzle.  The puzzle is figuring why you defend it.



No. The puzzle is figuring out why crickets about the other side doing exactly what you're condemning Biden of. Actually, it's not a puzzle at all. The answer is clear. I'll just refrain from stating my true feelings about you.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> No. The puzzle is figuring out why crickets about the other side doing exactly what you're condemning Biden of. Actually, it's not a puzzle at all. The answer is clear. I'll just refrain from stating my true feelings about you.



I'm not the other side.  I'm my  side.  The last topic of conversation was this.  If you want to misdirect, I can't stop you.  If you think you have true feelings about "me", I won't convince you otherwise.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Is it as @Xzi suggested? The "right" amount of subtlety?


In this case no, there's no racism at all there, you're just inserting your own choice of motive and intent.  I know I said that before, but in Biden's case, he's really not that subtle about it when he "gaffes."  See: "if you don't vote for me you ain't black."


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

Xzi said:


> In this case no, there's no racism at all there, you're just inserting your own choice of motive and intent.  I know I said that before, but in Biden's case, he's really not all that subtle about it when he "gaffes."  See: "if you don't vote for me you ain't black."



Paraphrasing what was said:  "If the serious issue of racial inequality is not addressed, then the world is doomed: black people will have to work with Hispanics."

Racial politics are one of the worst forms of racism.  There is no point being addressed in this context other than the feelings about different races.

It's not a gaffe when it's consistent with his character...


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm not the other side.  I'm my  side.  The last topic of conversation was this.  If you want to misdirect, I can't stop you.  If you think you have true feelings about "me", I won't convince you otherwise.



It that's what makes you feel better in order to get some sleep... But one would think that like with Trump, you'd get sick of constantly losing your game.

Misdirect? Put down the crack pipe. You quoted me with a reply. I replied to your reply. How is that trying to misdirect? It was a completely direct response, and nothing short of it. Also, if I wanted to waste more of my time than I already have, I'd go through this entire topic and list every, single, time you have actually misdirected. Take a real good look in the mirror before you let such insane amounts of hypocrisy flow from your fingertips.Yeah?

Edit: It doesn't matter what side you are on. Be on your own side. That's fine. But it doesn't negate the fact that you are still silent when it comes to one side vs the other in the matter of race baiting. So like I said, crickets from you about the other side.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> It that's what makes you feel better in order to get some sleep... But one would think that like with Trump, you'd get sick of constantly losing your game.



This isn't about Trump.  I've made remarks about Trump, but that doesn't mean that everything I say and do is about Trump.



D34DL1N3R said:


> Misdirect? Put down the crack pipe. You quoted me with a reply. I replied to your reply.



I see, so what Biden said is actually about Trump?   Insinuating that I'm a crackhead because I don't abide by your absurd claims is just another horrible testament to your capacity.

The concept of "bipartisan" is such a farce, rounding up everyone to be caught up in a losing game with horrible (and racist) rhetoric; except the politicians who prey on it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> But it doesn't negate the fact that you are still silent when it comes to one side vs the other in the matter of race baiting. So like I said, crickets from you about the other side.



I've spoken up on claims of Donald Trump being racist.  On the wall:  I don't think he claimed Mexicans were rapists, but that rapists were among those getting into America via the border.

When Trump made fun of his experience meeting with Asian government officials; it wasn't that different from what Asian people already do in regards to native English speakers, in telling stories.

Trying to rally support for political changes solely based on racial identity and antagonizing with the idea of racial conflict--I haven't seen Trump do that.  Please point it out for me, and I will "stop being a cricket" for you.

This is BBC being racist and changing the context of what Trump was arguing.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> This isn't about Trump.  I've made remarks about Trump, but that doesn't mean that everything I say and do is about Trump.



Yes, it is very much about Trump every bit as much. Why? Because you make hypocritical shit posts.



> I see, so what Biden said is actually about Trump?



WTF are you even getting this shit from? You pull the strangest things from the top of your head. Get off the crack pipe.



> Insinuating that I'm a crackhead because I don't abide by your absurd claims is just another horrible testament to your capacity.



If you seriously took that statement as insinuation that you are actually a crackhead, you have more problems than I originally ever thought. To clarify how this works: Crack is a drug that people smoke with a pipe. When smoked people most likely say stupid and/or nonsensical things. What the comment therefore means in a non-literal sense is "What you just said is so bizarre that you must have been smoking crack. Put it down."

Understand? You're welcome.

Edit:



> Trying to rally support for political changes solely based on racial identity and antagonizing with the idea of racial conflict--I haven't seen Trump do that. Please point it out for me, and I will "stop being a cricket" for you.



The stage it's on is 100% irrelevant and you know it. You're trying to force a bad faith comparison. You just basically said "I've seen Trump be racist, but I've not seen him be THAT racist." As if there's some type of difference depending on who is speaking, why, when, and where.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Yes, it is very much about Trump every bit as much. Why? Because you make hypocritical shit posts.



I'm almost convinced to take your word for it (not really).  Got an example?



D34DL1N3R said:


> WTF are you even getting this shit from? You pull the strangest things from the top of your head. Get off the crack pipe.



You said that what Biden said isn't racist because "Donald Trump supporters didn't do something".  I pointed out how this was misdirection.  Now we are so far removed from the original point that you don't even know where you are.  It doesn't take a lot to look at the previous 3 posts.  We are done with this point.



D34DL1N3R said:


> If you seriously took that statement as insinuation that you are actually a crackhead, you have more problems than I originally ever thought. To clarify how this works: Crack is a drug that people smoke with a pipe. When smoked people most likely say stupid and/or nonsensical things. What the comment therefore means in a non-literal sense is "What you just said is so bizarre that you must have been smoking crack. Put it down."
> 
> Understand? You're welcome.



Wonderful display of mental gymnastics. 10/10  Somehow you find a way to make it a claim about my mental capacity.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 28, 2020)

... I was actually surprised to see this Thread pop up on the right side of the Homepage just now, after seeing it for the first time a while ago; if this is any indicator, the next 4 years will be chock-full of this in the Media.

To be fair, it's quite the moral predicament; hating Losers but being one.
Must make seeing one's reflection awfully traumatic.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I'm almost convinced to take your word for it (not really).  Got an example?



Yes. Plenty. Just not wasting my time quoting tons of your posts into a short story for all to see. Everyones already seen them.



> You said that what Biden said isn't racist because Donald Trump supporters didn't do something.  I pointed out how this was misdirection.  Now we are so far removed from the original point that you don't even know where you are.  It doesn't take a lot to look at the previous 3 posts.



I never once stated that. Never. You completely made that up. 100%. It's you that is lost and you're beginning to convince me you MIGHT actually be a crackhead. Not saying you are, but the possibility exists. You are aware right, that it's very common for several conversations between different people to exist within a single thread? I mean, you HAVE been following this one. Right? But if you insist on staying on topic. Then let's talk about the topic. Joe Biden Wins. Let's talk about Joe Biden winning, or else take your misdirected comments to their proper place.



> Wonderful display of mental gymnastics. 10/10  Somehow you find a way to make it a claim about my mental capacity.



When you make things up out of thin air on a consistent enough basis and babble on nonsensically, what else is one suppose to think about your mental capacity?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Yes. Plenty. Just not wasting my time quoting tons of your posts into a short story for all to see. Everyones already seen them.



Nice edit.  A 180 from you claiming I'm talking nonsense to throwing a red herring, to yet again, deflect from the point that you are supporting racism.  Thing about a red herring, is that it is worth no effort to chase.  If you can serve it on a platter, though...



D34DL1N3R said:


> I never once stated that. Never. You completely made that up. 100%. It's you that is lost and you're beginning to convince me you might actually be a crackhead.



Me talking about Biden being racist, and you saying,"what about you, you Trump supporter!"



D34DL1N3R said:


> When you make things up out of thin air on a consistent enough basis and babble on nonsensically, what else is one suppose to think about your mental capacity?



Ah yes.  "Things come from nothing" argument.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Nice edit.  A 180 from you claiming I'm talking nonsense to throwing a red herring, to yet again, deflect from the point that you are supporting racism.  Thing about a red herring, is that it is worth no effort to chase.  If you can serve it on a platter, though...



I edited because I initially misread what you had said. Had I not edited it, you'd be crying about how I can't read correctly. So whatever. More hypocrisy. Want that evidence? Look back yourself at how many times you have edited a post. And you know every bit as much as I do that some of those edits have been quite significant. Pot call the kettle black much?



> Me talking about Biden being racist, and you saying,"what about you, you Trump supporter!"



Ummm. No. Just. Wrong. You said EXACTLY, and I quote "You said that what Biden said isn't racist because "Donald Trump supporters didn't do something". So no, I never said that. Ever. You pulled that out of thin air. Then you changed it to "But but but!!! Maybe you didn't say that, but you DID say this instead!!!". Saying you're hypocritical isn't the same thing as saying "Biden isn't racist because Trump supporters didn't do something". Not even close. How do you even make that comparison? You just read what you want out of things then try to gaslight with your projections. Hint: "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening" -Donald J. Trumphttps://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...he-united-states.576824/page-255#post-9310840




> Ah yes.  "Things come from nothing" argument.



I believe I just mentioned something about you making nonsensical comments.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I edited because I initially misread what you had said. Had I not edited it, you'd be crying about how I can't read correctly. So whatever. More hypocrisy. Want that evidence? Look back yourself at how many times you have edited a post. And you know every bit as much as I do that some of those edits have been quite significant. Pot call the kettle black much?



Ahh.  I see, your mistakes are somehow my fault.  Care to call me out on anything specific, or "there are just too many to name"?



D34DL1N3R said:


> Ummm. No. Just. Wrong. You said EXACTLY, and I quote "You said that what Biden said isn't racist because "Donald Trump supporters didn't do something". So no, I never said that. Ever. You pulled that out of thin air.



Here you are saying Biden wasn't racist.

Here you are deflecting, "what about the other side?"

So there's your "thin air".



D34DL1N3R said:


> I believe I just mentioned something about you making nonsensical comments.



Yeah.  You called me a crackhead.  But in your defense, "you didn't mean it, but you do, but you don't"--waffle.

It's great to see "upstanding" people like @Lacius will endorse poison like this.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Ahh.  I see, your mistakes are somehow my fault.  Care to call me out on anything specific, or "there are just too many to name"?



You're pulling thoughts out of thin air again. How did I ever imply that my mistake was your fault. You're just being kinda creepily weird at this point. You're seriously asking for proof that you have significantly edited posts? 



> Here you are saying Biden wasn't racist.



Wrong again. I never made a claim either way. I said just because you said its racist, doesn't make it so.



> Here you are deflecting, "what about the other side?"  So there's your "thin air".



You're using completely different examples than what I was referring to by the "thin air" and similar comments. And you want to talk about deflecting?



> Yeah.  You called me a crackhead.  But in your defense, "you didn't mean it, but you do, but you don't"--waffle.



Not my fault a pretty common figure of speech was lost on you and that you took it as literal. C'mon. Really? Smh.



> It's great to see "upstanding" people like @Lacius will endorse poison like this.



Lacius can speak for themself on that comment. But what are you wanting here? What kind of additional argument are you trying to start?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You're pulling thoughts out of thin air again. How did I ever imply that my mistake was your fault.



"I edited because I initially misread what you had said. Had I not edited it, you'd be crying about how I can't read correctly. So whatever. More hypocrisy."



D34DL1N3R said:


> You're seriously asking for proof that you have significantly edited posts?



I'm asking for an example where I radically changed the context of my posts.



D34DL1N3R said:


> Wrong again. I never made a claim either way. I said just because you said its racist, doesn't make it so.



So it's not an insinuation and it's not a deflection?  What is it?



D34DL1N3R said:


> You're using completely different examples than what I was referring to by the "thin air" and similar comments. And you want to talk about deflecting?



Make sense please.  Those are comments you made, that led me to believe you were making a position.  If they were disingenuous, then it doesn't matter in terms of an argument.



D34DL1N3R said:


> Lacius can speak for themself on that comment.



There is zero evidence of that.  There is, however, evidence of the contrary.


If you are going to call me a hypocrite, I would like something that supports it.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> "I edited because I initially misread what you had said. Had I not edited it, you'd be crying about how I can't read correctly. So whatever. More hypocrisy."



Precisely. I absolutely VERY clearly stated there that I was the one that made the mistake. I was the one that misread. However, had I not edited it and corrected it... you in fact would have most certainly made some kind of comment about it. How are you seeing that as me blaming you? It's just flat out weird.



> I'm asking for an example where I radically changed the context of my posts.



Bad faith request. You know full well I don't have the power to go back and quote your edits.



> So it's not an insinuation and it's not a deflection?  What is it?



Wtf is this now? A grammar lesson? How many times are you going to move the goal posts on this one?



> Make sense please.  Those are comments you made, that led me to believe you were making a position.  If they were disingenuous, then it doesn't matter in terms of an argument.



It makes perfect sense. You made shit up and I called you out on it. What doesn't make sense here? What makes sense to me is that when I call you out, you continually keep moving the goal posts.



> There is zero evidence of that.  There is, however, evidence of the contrary.



What is with your need to include me in your thoughts about Lacius? But hey, weren't you the one making a big deal about someone insinuating things about your mental ability? Well look what we have here!



> If you are going to call me a hypocrite, I would like something that supports it.



See my reply to your comment just above this one, about your thoughts on the ability of Lacius to speak for themself.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Precisely. I absolutely VERY clearly stated there that I was the one that made the mistake. I was the one that misread. However, had I not edited it and corrected it... you in fact would have most certainly made some kind of comment about it. How are you seeing that as me blaming you? It's just flat out weird.



No.  It's your mistake or it is not.  How I may or may not respond to it doesn't change that.   Using your mistake as an opportunity to further deride me is what's "weird".



D34DL1N3R said:


> Wtf is this now? A grammar lesson? How many times are you going to move the goal posts on this one?



It's an insinuation or it is a deflection.  Pick one.  Or give an alternative.  There's no shifting goalposts, unless that's what you are doing.  I have astutely made the point that what Biden said was racist.  You challenged my claim.  Why?



D34DL1N3R said:


> It makes perfect sense. You made shit up and I called you out on it. What doesn't make sense here? What makes sense to me is that when I call you out, you continually keep moving the goal posts.



I didn't make anything up.  You proposed rhetoric that would naturally be interpreted as a counter-argument.  If it's not, then your existence is moot to the conversation.



D34DL1N3R said:


> What is with your need to include me in your thoughts about Lacius?



This is a public forum and what I am writing is not exclusively for you.  Did you want to exchange PMs or become penpals? 



D34DL1N3R said:


> See my reply to your comment just above this one, about your thoughts on the ability of Lacius to speak for themself.



How does this make me a hypocrite?


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 28, 2020)

Tabzer is not worth talking to. Narcissistic and arrogant. It just looks for a mistake in a quote or tries to baffle you with bullshit. Sounds like presidential material. It doesn't care. It's in Japan. It's obviously just a poor lonely troll.

誇り高き少年に立ち向かう

Joe Biden will spend half his term cleaning up President Dump's mess. And the whole time Tabby and his bretheren will say nothing is happening. Best not talk to it. Joe knows how to run a country. T-rump knows how to spend his inheritance and apply for bankruptcies. Good thing Puto didn't bail him out this time. Good riddance to the worst President in the history of America. Traitor. LOCK HIM UP!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 28, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> Tabzer is not worth talking to. Narcissistic and arrogant. It just looks for a mistake in a quote or tries to baffle you with bullshit.



Yes.  The claim: "Biden telling black people that they will have to work with Hispanics and be a minority to white Europeans if they don't get aboard his platform is racism" is very confusing and off topic.  How controversial of me.



mikefor20 said:


> 誇り高き少年に立ち向かう



You are the type of person who gets a tattoo in a foreign language because it looks cool, aren't you?


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Yes.  The claim: "Biden telling black people that they will have to work with Hispanics and be a minority to white Europeans if they don't get aboard his platform is racism" is very confusing and off topic.  How controversial of me.
> 
> 
> 
> You are the type of person who gets a tattoo in a foreign language because it looks cool, aren't you?



Biden hates minorities and women. He'd never choose one as his running mate.... oh wait...

And  no Tabitha, I'm the type of guy who Googles stand down proud boy in kanji. You're the type of guy who votes for a racist fascist pig and gloats about it.. Even when you lose.. sad.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 28, 2020)

HELLO FAM.
That was a relaxing xmas break!
Man its funny to see the Republican Party starting to unravel. Well What do you expect when they pander to
lower denominators.
*Rep. Kinzinger calls efforts to overturn election 'a scam'*


----------



## Master X (Dec 28, 2020)

Hey guys, did you hear? The Nashville explosion wasn't from a bomb, it was from a missile! A missile strike launched by China! With the support of the US military! They were working together to because, something something, election fraud and to knock out a NSA listening outpost! But the missile didn't actually cause the explosion, it disabled a cooling system for a supercomputer which quickly overheated and went boom! Oh and the guy who did the bombing (Wait, wasn't it a missile strike?) was mindcontrolled by Covid to do it! As part of the... War on Christmas?

https://www.rawstory.com/nashville-bomb-conspiracy-theories/

Yeah, uh... So I think my brain cells are screaming in pain right now. But its not the stupidity of all these conspiracy theories, no... It's because my brain is trying to resist the 5G brainwashing signals.

And in other news, don't forget to get your tickets for the bus ride to Trumps inauguration!
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/trump-2021-inauguration-bus-to-dc-from-md-tickets-131912055509


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabzer said:


> No.  It's your mistake or it is not.  How I may or may not respond to it doesn't change that.   Using your mistake as an opportunity to further deride me is what's "weird".



You have some very serious paranoia issues, which may or may not be the root of your issues.



> It's an insinuation or it is a deflection.  Pick one.  Or give an alternative.  There's no shifting goalposts, unless that's what you are doing.  I have astutely made the point that what Biden said was racist.  You challenged my claim.  Why?



More shit out of the top of your head. Give it up already. I said that just because you say it's racist, does not make it so. That's neither a deflection or insinuation. It's a simple factual statement. That's it. You keep injecting your own twisted thought patterns into everything you read. Again, most likely due to some paranoia issues. Then you keep changing the question you're asking, and adding new questions. Almost seems like you're confused about things. Lmao.



> I didn't make anything up.  You proposed rhetoric that would naturally be interpreted as a counter-argument.  If it's not, then your existence is moot to the conversation.



You 100% made shit up. You said I stated something that was never said. NEVER. End of this stupid ass conversation. Do you hear voices along with that paranoia? Telling you people are saying things? Talking about you? Trying to put the blame on you for their own mistakes? The feeling that everyone is challenging you or out to get you?



> This is a public forum and what I am writing is not exclusively for you.  Did you want to exchange PMs or become penpals?



Says the guy who tried blasting me for having a conversation outside of the conversation they were having with someone else that didn't include me & called it misdirecting. Can I say this word for the millionth time with you? Hypocrite!



> How does this make me a hypocrite?



Omfg. You're just.... Yeah. I already explained in my last reply. Why do I need to explain the same exact things multiple times over with you? Do you know what a hypocrite is? Because for the amount of times you are hypocritical, I really don't think so. You whined about me making a comment about your mental state, then you made the exact same type of comment towards Lucius. That makes you a hypocrite. Again, that's the end of this tired nonsense with you.

I'm not explaining extremely simple concepts and ideas to you for an umpteenth time. It's quite obvious that your entire train of though is twisted and pretty much everyone here would agree with me. You're also extremely paranoid and delusional which may be the root of your issues. Not trying to dog on you for having mental health problems, as I will freely admit that I suffer from mental illnesses. Namely depression and anxiety. I'll not be responding to your complete bullshit any longer. (Edit: Before someone gets bent out of shape about it, it is in my opinion that) You most seriously need to seek some mental health guidance. Enjoy your day.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 29, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> Biden hates minorities and women. He'd never choose one as his running mate.... oh wait...
> 
> And  no Tabitha, I'm the type of guy who Googles stand down proud boy in kanji. You're the type of guy who votes for a racist fascist pig and gloats about it.. Even when you lose.. sad.




I have stated that I did not vote, and surely I don't gloat about voting for Trump.  I don't understand why people who say that they are for the truth would promote such disinformation.  Can you @Lacius?  I see that you like these kind of ad hominem attacks.

Also using people for their minority status as a tool to perpetuate political agenda is not a sign of respect or love.

A strong fascist trend is silencing dissent.  I'm not arguing that Trump is not an authoritarian or a fascist, but his opposition seems to be trying to win the war on information using fascist tactics.



mikefor20 said:


> 誇り高き少年に立ち向かう



I understand your intention but this literally means,"stand against the young men/man with dignity".  If you are trying to token "Proud Boys" as a group, you'd use the English or use katakana like "プラウドボーイズ".  What you actually said speaks as advocacy for corruption.




D34DL1N3R said:


> wah wah, I am not actually making a point.  I am afraid to call Biden a racist.  But I will call anyone a hypocrite who challenges me, just because.



Ok.  At least we are on the same page now.  As for that other person, I wasn't challenging his mental state.  I was challenging something he said about the matter.  It wasn't an ad hominem like what you were doing.  But whatever.


On another note of US corruption.


 Here's the status quo that you are in a hurry to return to.


----------



## Rj.MoG (Dec 29, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I have stated that I did not vote, and surely I don't gloat about voting for Trump.  I don't understand why people who say that they are for the truth would promote such disinformation.  Can you @Lacius?  I see that you like these kind of ad hominem attacks.
> 
> Also using people for their minority status as a tool to perpetuate political agenda is not a sign of respect or love.
> 
> ...





tabzer said:


> I have stated that I did not vote, and surely I don't gloat about voting for Trump.  I don't understand why people who say that they are for the truth would promote such disinformation.  Can you @Lacius?  I see that you like these kind of ad hominem attacks.
> 
> Also using people for their minority status as a tool to perpetuate political agenda is not a sign of respect or love.
> 
> ...



Jesus fucking christ. I can understand hating all politicians and wanting things to change I really can. But how fucking naive must you be to believe Trump of all people. A person who factually lies on a regular basis. How much god damn paint do you have to drink to believe QAnon conspiracy theories


----------



## tabzer (Dec 29, 2020)

Rj.MoG said:


> Jesus fucking christ. I can understand hating all politicians and wanting things to change I really can. But how fucking naive must you be to believe Trump of all people. A person who factually lies on a regular basis. How much god damn paint do you have to drink to believe QAnon conspiracy theories



Reference to something I said that validates your claim, please.


----------



## Rj.MoG (Dec 29, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Reference to something I said that validates your claim, please.


All of the retarded shit you post god damn. Do you not realize you can click on someone's username and view their post history? Or are you too fucking stupid to do that too? I'll never understand people like you on either fucking side. Surely a part of you realizes you're just being stupidly fucking coy and pedantic. Either that or you really are that fucking stupid


----------



## tabzer (Dec 29, 2020)

Rj.MoG said:


> All of the retarded shit you post god damn. Do you not realize you can click on someone's username and view their post history? Or are you too fucking stupid to do that too? I'll never understand people like you on either fucking side. Surely a part of you realizes you're just being stupidly fucking coy and pedantic. Either that or you really are that fucking stupid



So you've got nothing.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 29, 2020)

tabzer said:


> wah wah, I am not actually making a point. I am afraid to call Biden a racist. But I will call anyone a hypocrite who challenges me, just because.



Your hypocrisy was proven, you pulling complete bullshit out of thin air was proven, your pure stupidity has been proven over, and over, and over, and over, and over again by many people here. And that was all you could come up with? More completely made up shit? You're a joke dude. A severely mentally ill troll. You're psychotic and have gone completely over the edge. Get some fucking help because it's not an opinion at this point. It's fact.

That said, I politely ask that you refrain from quoting me, making up fake quotes about me, or talking to me on the site whatsoever. I have nothing left to say to you. You are worthless scum and I'll waste zero more of my time on your bullshit, lies, and fantasies.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 29, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I have stated that I did not vote, and surely I don't gloat about voting for Trump.  I don't understand why people who say that they are for the truth would promote such disinformation.  Can you @Lacius?  I see that you like these kind of ad hominem attacks.
> 
> Also using people for their minority status as a tool to perpetuate political agenda is not a sign of respect or love.
> 
> ...




Tabbie, you are a Trump Sympathizer. You live in the fantasy alternate reality.  You use all the plays from all the playbooks you claim to despise. Spew lies, propaganda and intentional misdirection. Then you actively disrupt everybody.  Like someone who presses all the buttons in the elevator. You confuse the situation, then play the victim....
Emulating your Master!

*You didn't vote? Then shut up*. Nothing vested in this then.. What's it to ya?  No wonder you can sit there and spew this shit and still have the audacity to go on.  _*IF YOU DIDN'T VOTE YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BITCH ABOUT IT! *_I am pretty sure you are some fat ass Japanese kid anyway. Love the culture. Especially the fact that YOU can't vote in our elections!

Minority status to perpetuate political agenda?  While you may be right that the left puts minority rights in the forefront that doesn't mean we all support it. HUMAN RIGHTS should be on everyone's agenda.  I don't think immigrant rights should ever exceed a natural born citizens rights.  It occasionally does in my city.  And it's getting worse. California has some BAD policies. But it's still a great place to be. Having compassion isn't an issue. And giving people EQUAL rights is imperative. Any legislation specifying race is bullshit though no matter the intent. EQUAL is EQUAL FOR EVERYONE.  I don't agree with a lot of things the left does.  But I can't, in good faith or good standing as a human being, stand behind a racist fascist turd or any of the Legion of Doom that supports it. You deny then confirm your own lies, fascist agenda and hypocrisy..  Besides , _*you were the one trying to play the race definition technicality*_ and say Trump supporters are a mistreated minority.  More victim talk.  Minority only matters to you when you are the minority.  More typical bullshit.

As for the kanji.. it's google translate for "standby proud boy" as previously stated.  Their translations are notoriously bad, everybody knows.  The minimal effort involved in the statement actually exceeded what you are worth already. I don't read or speak Japanese. Never alluded to. Perhaps its your comprehension that's an issue. And we all know you are challenged.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 29, 2020)

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1344020640987295745

Here is the court's opinion for the last of the election contests in Minnesota to be dismissed.
Really? After all those Court case being dismissed for not any presentable proof, People are now talking about succession, and Marshall law... ..Yup.. party of* law and order....*


----------



## notimp (Dec 29, 2020)

mikefor20 said:


> *You didn't vote? Then shut up*. Nothing vested in this then..


The hell?

Your arguments dont count, because you are not vested in this?

Is this some new gamers vs reality sh*t, where the person with the deepest feelings wins the argument? 

Learn how to argue first.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 29, 2020)

notimp said:


> The hell?
> 
> Your arguments dont count, because you are not vested in this?
> 
> ...



Because what you just said was an outstanding argument? Wtf ever. And yes, with several people here it absolutely is gamers (fantasy) vs reality.


----------



## mikefor20 (Dec 29, 2020)

notimp said:


> The hell?
> 
> Your arguments dont count, because you are not vested in this?
> 
> ...



If you don't vote, don't bother to complain. You removed yourself from the process. Now remove yourself from the conversation.  The Resident Neglect is fully immersed in a fantasy world. You don't deserve an opinion if you don't vote. Where's your argument?

Don't bother No Tip, you are just as bad as Tabitha. We know....


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Your hypocrisy was proven, you pulling complete bullshit out of thin air was proven, your pure stupidity has been proven over, and over, and over, and over, and over again by many people here. And that was all you could come up with? More completely made up shit? You're a joke dude. A severely mentally ill troll. You're psychotic and have gone completely over the edge. Get some fucking help because it's not an opinion at this point. It's fact.
> 
> That said, I politely ask that you refrain from quoting me, making up fake quotes about me, or talking to me on the site whatsoever. I have nothing left to say to you. You are worthless scum and I'll waste zero more of my time on your bullshit, lies, and fantasies.



More ironic wah wah.  So was what Biden said racist or was it not?



mikefor20 said:


> _*you were the one trying to play the race definition technicality*_ and say Trump supporters are a mistreated minority



No.  I wasn't.  You are going to have to make a direct link to what you are talking about.  The subject of race came up a couple of times.  Bolding and underlining doesn't do it for me. 



mikefor20 said:


> *You didn't vote? Then shut up*.



No.  Considering how much fraud there is going on the US, I wouldn't be surprised if they used my name to vote for Biden, who is very corrupt.  It's an issue that reaches around the globe.  There are other users here from other countries.  People are interested in US politics because they have away of affecting everyone around them.  Is it ironic that you sound like a nationalist?


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Dec 30, 2020)

It’s funny coming back here  and looking at people fight.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they used my name to vote for Biden,


That makes no sense. You would of had to been previously had US citizenship. Which as I understand, your not a us citizen or have been in the past.  Further more, dude... it's been proven that the main election, no widespread voter fraud. This is now getting really old that your still denying evidence that there was no widespread voter fraud.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> That makes no sense. You would of had to been previously had US citizenship. Which as I understand, your not a us citizen or have been in the past.  Further more, dude... it's been proven that the main election, no widespread voter fraud. This is now getting really old that your still denying evidence that there was no widespread voter fraud.



Evidence of no widespread voter fraud?  Is there a way to verify that personally without relying on the same government that has secret police and rigs other countries' elections?  Or ok, their state interested propaganda, who can't call Biden a racist or point out his corruption because Trump is a very bad man who hacked the 2016 election with the help of Russia?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Dec 30, 2020)

CPG said:


> It’s funny coming back here  and looking at people fight.


yes the voteflakes are strong in here!


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 30, 2020)

Taking this conspiracy theory at face value, Trump wouldn't have won even in 2016.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

He had Russia win it for him.  Remember?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)




----------



## notimp (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


>



First two minutes, we speak for the people, bad people are very afraid of us, increadible - I will show you the evidence later...

And you should get your money back! (As ukraine people)

*hrhr*

Yeah...

I'm still watching though..  (Populist trash, but entertaining.)

edit:

We also prove, that Ukraine pays 30% higher taxes on natural gas!

Higher than what? Ehm, nevermind, you dont need to know.. 

How this works in reality. Pipelines that were going through the Ukraine and into the west, transporting russian gas, were tapped by Ukraine, without paying - to the point where Russia threatened to build entirely new pipelines 'benefiting' other countries. Because everyone 'benefits' in that way as a transition country.

But noes, Ukraine be paying for gas too much. 30%! (If thats not american liquified shale, the hell they are..  )
--

TLDR; Hunter Biden is corrupt *surprise*, some entity is now giving press conferences announcing this as "the corruption of the Biden family" in wording, playing exactly into US far right conspiracy narratives.  I'm so not surprised.. 

For the people that havent glimpsed what this is. Ukraine was one of the states that was on the verge to flipping over to the western alliance (public appearances by high ranking US politicians on stage, in Ukraine, inclusive), then the EU internal financial crisis hit, then russia moved military forces into the Ukraine (the part where most citizens were russian in terms of cultural self identification). And the EU basically lost interest, once it saw how much of Ukraines economy was dependent on resource flows - that have to come out of russia, or otherwise, at higher cost, from the west. And that russia wasnt very interested to 'partner'.

So whatever corruption 'da Biden family' was involved in, was in the interest of the US, as far as the public appearances on stage are concerned, and in the interest of god knows whom as far as Hunter Bidens 'business transactions' are concerned.
-

Here is what a heartfelt genuine statement of a whistleblower sounds like - holding papers in his hands from which he is reading:

"Since 2020, together with other people, I have provided services to some Ukraine and Russian businessman, to legalize their illegal income."

Oh yeah, look at all the detail in this statement. All the personal drive to tell people what you have done, and for whom! Look at the understanding of the processes!

Since year,
together with some others,
I have provided services,
to some people,
to make illegal money
legal
and avoid the taxes!

Wow. How interesting! I heard illegal and legal. And businessmen! And taxavoidance. I know what I must feel now, many thanks!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

Lol yeah.  The phrasing is funny.  Maybe they meant to say Biden was a great guy for selling "Democracy" to Ukraine and it just got butchered in translation.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Evidence of no widespread voter fraud?  Is there a way to verify that personally without relying on the same government that has secret police and rigs other countries' elections?  Or ok, their state interested propaganda, who can't call Biden a racist or point out his corruption because Trump is a very bad man who hacked the 2016 election with the help of Russia?



There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and the time to believe there was widespread voter fraud is when evidence is provided that there was widespread voter fraud.
We know for a fact that Russia meddled in the 2016 presidential election to help Trump and hurt Clinton.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, and the time to believe there was widespread voter fraud is when evidence is provided that there was widespread voter fraud.



Welcome back.   There's more evidence that the 2020 election was rife with fraud than there is evidence that Russia meddled with the 2016 election.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 30, 2020)

Vladimir Putin said today about Hillary and Dems: "In my opinion, it is humiliating. One must be able to lose with dignity."  So true!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 24, 2016


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Welcome back.   There's more evidence that the 2020 election was rife with fraud than there is evidence thay Russia meddled with the 2016 election.


There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election, and there is evidence of widespread Russian election meddling in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

Lacius said:


> There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election, and there is evidence of widespread Russian election meddling in 2016.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections



*According to politicians and the FBI.  Lol.  

You have said before that evidence is objective, yet you are appealing to authorities that lie "for national security".


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> *According to politicians and the FBI.  Lol.
> 
> You have said before that evidence is objective, yet you are appealing to authorities that lie "for national security".



The evidence for both is more than "politicians and the FBI."
If there is something demonstrably wrong with the evidence for 2016 election meddling, present it.
If there is evidence of widespread voter fraud in 2020, present it.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

My crowdsourced material is a lot more diverse than your crowdsourced material btw.  Check the link.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> My crowdsourced material is a lot more diverse than your crowdsourced material btw.  Check the link.


As I've said many times in the past, if your responses are going to be merely "nuh uh," there's no reason to listen to you.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> My crowdsourced material is a lot more diverse than your crowdsourced material btw.  Check the link.


lol yup your crowdsourced material is right in collection info from random people who know nothing about the election.... HECK I, myself, sent a signed Affidavit confirming BIG Foot eating about 50,000 ballots in WI, but to be fair it might of been the YETI, but thats just semantics..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

Lacius said:


> As I've said many times in the past, if your responses are going to be merely "nuh uh," there's no reason to listen to you.



How did "check the link" sound like "nuh uh" to you?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> lol yup your crowdsourced material is right in collection info from random people who know nothing about the election.... HECK I, myself, sent a signed Affidavit confirming BIG Foot eating about 50,000 ballots in WI, but to be fair it might of been the YETI, but thats just semantics..



Present an actual affidavit then you will be presenting more evidence than the Steele Dossier.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 30, 2020)

*No fraud: Georgia audit confirms authenticity of absentee ballots*
https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fra...-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/


> Law enforcement and election investigators *didn’t find a single fraudulent absentee ballot during an audit of over 15,000 voter signatures*, according to a report by the Georgia secretary of state’s office released Tuesday.





> *The audit contradicted allegations that absentee ballots were rife with fraud* after President Donald Trump said the election had been stolen, said Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. Trump lost to Joe Biden by about 12,000 votes in Georgia.





> *The audit reviewed 15,118 absentee ballot envelopes, pulled from 30 randomly selected boxes, out of over 150,431 total absentee ballots* returned in Cobb County, a large enough sample to give a 99% confidence level in the results, according to the report.





> “When are we going to be allowed to do signature verification in Fulton County, Georgia? The process is going VERY slowly,” Trump wrote on Twitter.


Trump's playing a shell game.  There's election fraud right here.  But you need to look over there.  The fraud is in that direction.  Now try over there.  It's everywhere.  Keep looking.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How did "check the link" sound like "nuh uh" to you?


You responded to my post with a collection of crowdsourced collection claims, many of them debunked, with no evidence or standards of evidence. I posted a link to arguably the world's greatest compendium of information with citations and evidence.

You can expect another response from me on this topic *if* you a.) Discredit the evidence for the 2016 election meddling (saying "nuh uh, I don't like politicians and the FBI" doesn't do that), and b.) Provide evidence for 2020 election fraud (debunked and/or unsubstantiated claims, many of them not even demonstrative of widespread election fraud, don't count).


----------



## djpannda (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> How did "check the link" sound like "nuh uh" to you?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


im glad you agree that everything listed on that site is grossly overstated or just false... because you know if it was REAL INFO it would of been present to an actually LEGAL COURT SYSTEM .. instead of a GODADDY blog..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

Your "standard of evidence" is contrived and arbitrary.

You need to establish a baseline if you are going to assume the role of an arbitrator.

@Lacius


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 30, 2020)

djpannda said:


> if it was REAL INFO it would of been present to an actually LEGAL COURT SYSTEM .. instead of a GODADDY blog..



This. If there was an ounce of credibility to that site, it certainly would have been used in Trumps lawsuits to provide irrefutable evidence. But it's "would've" or "would have". Sorry, had to. Pet peeve.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 30, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> This. If there was an ounce of credibility to that site, it certainly would have been used in Trumps lawsuits to prove irrefutable evidence. But it's "would've" or "would have". Sorry, had to. Pet peeve.



Is that the baseline, then?  What the courts accept?

Also you are assuming too much.  There's no evidence that Trump is even trying to prove the election was a fraud (based on Lacius's supposed standard of proof)  The website is a repository, not an authority to appeal to, or discredit.  You might as well discredit google, twitter, and facebook for being a gateway to the internet.


----------



## LumInvader (Dec 30, 2020)

Lacius said:


> You responded to my post with a collection of crowdsourced collection claims, many of them debunked, with no evidence or standards of evidence. I posted a link to arguably the world's greatest compendium of information with citations and evidence.
> 
> You can expect another response from me on this topic *if* you a.) Discredit the evidence for the 2016 election meddling (saying "nuh uh, I don't like politicians and the FBI" doesn't do that), and b.) Provide evidence for 2020 election fraud (debunked and/or unsubstantiated claims, many of them not even demonstrative of widespread election fraud, don't count).


That website should be renamed to hereisthekraken.com.

Trump supporters don't trust the courts or Trump's own appointees, yet they trust a website from a source that promotes election fraud claims that are poorly sourced with rubber stamp fact checking.  The website is clearly partisan and unscientific in it's methodology with scant 'evidence' highlighting allegations of fraud committed against Trump's opponent.

The website portrays itself as a trove of 'admissible evidence,' yet the vast majority of the GOP's lawsuits have been *dismissed* for the exact opposite reason.  Just a reminder to anyone who may have fogotten: The GOP's post-election litigation record is *1-59*.  Their only victory was not the result of a fraud allegation.

So far I've tested 6 random claims and I was able to debunk each of them within minutes.  I may post the results when I have more time.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> There's no evidence that Trump is even trying to prove the election was a fraud..


I KNEW you were just troll and were not that guilible, EVEN TAbZer believes this is all a scam


tabzer said:


> You might as well discredit google, twitter, and facebook for being a gateway to the internet.


..oh like people do to National News....
lol


----------



## Amez (Dec 30, 2020)

My thoughts...

1 - Trump mentioned injecting disinfectant / Trump goes golfing - while thousands of Americans are dying every day.
1A - Definitely not the actions of a good president.
1B - He said the disinfectant thing was a joke - well again refer to 1A, You don't joke when people are dying.

2 - Someone is happy to raise as much money in donations as he can since he's been voted out.
2A - He's not going to give that money back to the donators, that's his retirement fund.
2B - That's the reason he gives his fans hope about rigged and corrupt elections, to keep them donating.

3 - Given the way he/his team are trying to obstruct Biden, I wouldn't be surprised if they burn the White House down.

4 - Good luck to Joe Biden on his election win.

5 - Donald Trump has taken America to rock bottom so the only way is up... Joe Biden really doesn't have to do much to be remembered as a better president, something as simple as uniting the people will be seen as a "major feat" simply because of how much Donald Trump has divided them. 

Right O, I'm off for a round to see if I can improve on a bogey.


----------



## Doran754 (Dec 30, 2020)

2016: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
2017: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
2018: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
2019: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
2020: YOU LOST GET OVER IT LUL


----------



## djpannda (Dec 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> 2016: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2017: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2018: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2019: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2020: YOU LOST GET OVER IT LUL


..your point?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Is that the baseline, then?  What the courts accept?
> 
> Also you are assuming too much.  There's no evidence that Trump is even trying to prove the election was a fraud (based on Lacius's supposed standard of proof)  The website is a repository, not an authority to appeal to, or discredit.  You might as well discredit google, twitter, and facebook for being a gateway to the internet.



I kindly asked you to refrain from quoting me, making up fake quotes from me, or talking to me whatsoever. I asked you to stop. It can now be considered flat out harassment. I will ask you again to please stop any and all interaction with or towards me on this site.


----------



## mammastuffing (Dec 30, 2020)

tabzer said:


> Is that the baseline, then?  What the courts accept?


Innocent until proven guilty and beyond reasonable doubt is pretty sound.


----------



## djpannda (Dec 30, 2020)

*UN says Trump Blackwater pardons violate international law*
Oh Wow Trump becoming the  international man of mystery... sorry I mean soon be to be *international criminal*

*updated link directly to website. sorry @ghjfdtg *


----------



## ghjfdtg (Dec 30, 2020)

Not directly related to the topic but saw this a few times already. Would be nice if people would remove the Google amp tracking from their links. Thanks


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

shamzie said:


> 2016: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2017: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2018: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2019: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2020: YOU LOST GET OVER IT LUL


"Not my president" is a lot more intellectually honest than "not THE president," lol.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 30, 2020)

genuinely very surprised that this is still going on


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> genuinely very surprised that this is still going on


As deluded as the conservatives are, this is will likely continue until January 20.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 30, 2020)

Lacius said:


> As deluded as the conservatives are, this is will likely continue until January 20.


you underestimating that


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> you underestimating that


Sorry, *at least* until January 20.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Dec 30, 2020)

Lacius said:


> "Not my president" is a lot more intellectually honest than "not THE president," lol.


RUSSIAAAAAAAAA


----------



## Lacius (Dec 30, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> RUSSIAAAAAAAAA


I didn't mention Russia. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Use your brain for once in your life.


----------



## rensenware (Dec 31, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> RUSSIAAAAAAAAA


Nobody here referenced Russia, but I'll play ball- the claims about Russian interference always, without fail, were about Russian efforts to spread misinformation to influence the election. Nobody ever claimed there were Russian hacking efforts to actually change results.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 31, 2020)

jupitteer said:


> Nobody here referenced Russia, but I'll play ball- the claims about Russian interference always, without fail, were about Russian efforts to spread misinformation to influence the election. Nobody ever claimed there were Russian hacking efforts to actually change results.


The Russians attempted to do more than spread misinformation and influence the election.



> The committee reported that the Russian government was able to penetrate election systems in at least 18, and possibly up to 21, states, and that in a smaller subset of states, infiltrators "could have altered or deleted voter registration data," although they lacked the ability to manipulate individual votes or vote tallies. The committee wrote that the infiltrators' failure to exploit vulnerabilities in election systems could have been because they "decided against taking action" or because "they were merely gathering information and testing capabilities for a future attack". To prevent future infiltrations, the committee made a number of recommendations, including that "at a minimum, any machine purchased going forward should have a voter-verified paper trail and no WiFi capability".



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


----------



## djpannda (Jan 1, 2021)

Lol OMG.. Everyone should watch Netflix “Death to 2020” ... it perfectly explains the 2020.. and the election for dummies .... plus it’s funny as shit !!!


----------



## morvoran (Jan 2, 2021)

*That's a Lot of People Who Think the 2020 Election was Stolen in Some Way*

This story is from a poll taken late last year, so most likely, the number of democrats/independent who think Biden stole the election has gone up.  That means the only *people* left who think Biden is legitimate are tools on twitter and the brainlets here on GBAtemp. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most voters say this year’s unprecedented level of mail-in voting was largely successful and continue to think President Trump should concede the presidential race. Republicans, however, strongly believe Democrats are likely to have stolen the election.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters think mail-in voting worked well for the most part. Thirty-nine percent (39%) disagree and say it led to unprecedented voter fraud in this election. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Forty-seven percent (47%) say it’s likely that Democrats stole voters or destroyed pro-Trump ballots in several states to ensure that Joe Biden would win.

[…]

Sixty-two percent (62%) of Republicans say it’s Very Likely the Democrats stole the election, a view shared by 17% of Democrats and 28% of voters not affiliated with either major party.

That’s a sizeable number of Democrats right there.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 2, 2021)

Carrying on the denial to and in 2021, I see.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 2, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Lol OMG.. Everyone should watch Netflix “Death to 2020” ... it perfectly explains the 2020.. and the election for dummies .... plus it’s funny as shit !!!



I thought it was on an equally non-funny level as the 2nd Borat movie.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 2, 2021)

morvoran said:


> *That's a Lot of People Who Think the 2020 Election was Stolen in Some Way*
> 
> *This story is from a poll taken late last year*, so most likely, the number of democrats/independent who think Biden stole the election has gone up.  That means the only *people* left who think Biden is legitimate are tools on twitter and the brainlets here on GBAtemp.
> 
> ...


*Poll: 83% of Republicans believe Trump is honest*
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2431

*President Trump has made more than 20,000 false or misleading claims*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/


> *Gullible*
> 
> gul·li·ble
> adjective
> ...


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 2, 2021)

shamzie said:


> 2016: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2017: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2018: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2019: NOT MY PRESIDENT *screech*
> 2020: YOU LOST GET OVER IT LUL


uh... Is this some projection? I'm assuming your trying to smear liberals. Most people on the (American left) accepted Trump as president, after less than two weeks. Did they not like him? Well given his shitty polices, I think it's fair to not like him.
However you guys been sore looser for a month+
Constantly non stop trying to claim  widespread election fraud
Go get some dignity you need it.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 2, 2021)

what i written on fb were my fears of the GOP totally ignoring the results.......I've decided somethng and this time i mean it.....if by off chance democratic process is destroyed on Jan 6th I decided to move to a different country for then it opens a can of worms i don't want to be appart my biggest fear is trump supporters ill literally murder democrats and trump will seize 100% control over the government by sheer force that is what i fear the most


----------



## kingaz (Jan 2, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> what i written on fb were my fears of the GOP totally ignoring the results.......I've decided somethng and this time i mean it.....if by off chance democratic process is destroyed on Jan 6th I decided to move to a different country for then it opens a can of worms i don't want to be appart my biggest fear is trump supporters ill literally murder democrats and trump will seize 100% control over the government by sheer force that is what i fear the most



Take a deep breath. While the unfathomable amount of bullshit that comes from Trump and his cult is definitely scary, the window of opportunity to pull off a hostile takeover of the country closed weeks ago, if it ever even existed to begin with. To "seize 100% control over the government by sheer force," as you put it, you need a bit more than a group of crackpot lawyers and internet tough guys. And that's basically all they have at this point. They don't have a plan, they don't have coordination, they don't have numbers or resources or even the most basic foundations of legitimacy outside of their own deranged echo chambers.  

I'm not going to tell you that Trump and his cult haven't given cause for worry for both our democracy and our overall safety. And I fear that they're going to continue to create problems going forward. But we're not as close to a violent fascist rebellion as you seem to fear.


----------



## RandomUser (Jan 2, 2021)

Is this even possible? Is this article true?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pence-may-choose-2020-election-171645267.html
If it is true, that something I learned new today. I didn't think anybody could do that.



chrisrlink said:


> what i written on fb were my fears of the GOP totally ignoring the results.......I've decided somethng and this time i mean it.....if by off chance democratic process is destroyed on Jan 6th I decided to move to a different country for then it opens a can of worms i don't want to be appart my biggest fear is trump supporters ill literally murder democrats and trump will seize 100% control over the government by sheer force that is what i fear the most


If you don't mind me asking and as a curiosity, what country that will accept disabled people, AFAIK they are not too keen on taking them in, unless their income is high which is very unlikely.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 2, 2021)

kingaz said:


> To "seize 100% control over the government by sheer force," as you put it, you need a bit more than a group of crackpot lawyers and internet tough guys. And that's basically all they have at this point.



I get that you are trying to make the guy feel better, but you clearly underestimate the size of the crowds Trump brings in.  You are also acting like you know how to "properly seize control" of a government.  It's okay to not know and still be calm.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 2, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I get that you are trying to make the guy feel better, but you clearly underestimate the size of the crowds Trump brings in.  You are also acting like you know how to "properly seize control" of a government.  It's okay to not know and still be calm.


If Trump's 2017 inauguration is any indication, or his Tulsa rally this summer, Trump isn't particularly good at bringing in crowds.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 2, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If Trump's 2017 inauguration is any indication, or his Tulsa rally this summer, Trump isn't particularly good at bringing in crowds.



Lol.  Ok.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 2, 2021)

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1345180061134168070

60 losses?! 

A shockingly inept and embarrassing effort to subvert the will of the American people.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 2, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1345180061134168070
> 
> 60 losses?!
> 
> A shockingly inept and embarrassing effort to subvert the will of the American people.


Trump was right when he said we'd win so much we'd be tired of winning.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1345180061134168070
> 
> 60 losses?!
> 
> A shockingly inept and embarrassing effort to subvert the will of the American people.




So VP Pence wins and it counts for a loss against "Trump and his Allies".


----------



## morvoran (Jan 3, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> *Gullible*
> 
> gul·li·ble
> adjective
> ...



Obama: "Change we can believe in", "You can keep your plan and your doctor", "No problem.  We can sell weapons to the Mexican cartels and nobody will be the wiser", "Let's keep an eye on this Trump fellow"
Biden:  "I am the president elect."

Yeah, ditto.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Obama: "Change we can believe in", "You can keep your plan and your doctor", "No problem.  We can sell weapons to the Mexican cartels and nobody will be the wiser", "Let's keep an eye on this Trump fellow"
> Biden:  "I am the president elect."
> 
> Yeah, ditto.



When Obamacare was passed, you could keep your insurance plan if you liked it. If a person got their insurance through an employer, it's very likely they didn't see much of a change other than added benefits. If a plan didn't meet certain base standards, then it may have been required to change to meet those standards after a few years. Nobody was forced off their plans or had to change their doctors specifically because of Obamacare.
Project Gunrunner was a George W. Bush era policy. It was not authorized by Obama.

The Obama administration did not spy on Trump nor the Trump campaign.
Biden is indeed the president-elect.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So VP Pence wins and it counts for a loss against "Trump and his Allies".


The lawsuit was about altering the electoral college vote and giving the presidency to Trump. Trump wanted this, and Trump's allies wanted this. They lost.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 3, 2021)

I do not understand or fathom how anyone in the USA is legitimately fine with a literal attempted coup on our Democracy and hijacking popular sovereignty (the people rule and vote)

Just because your guy wants to bypass our electoral process that our forefathers literally died for (and you're okay with it because you're upset that the majority didn't like your guy) doesn't mean that he's not going to turn on you if he was successful. That is literally how any demigod / populist works.  The people voted. *IT'S OVER.* 

I'm shocked that nobody in Congress has been ejected from these borderline acts of treason.  This is why they keep doing it because there is no repercussions to suffer and only emboldened base to gain. There needs to be consequences for this or the attacks on our country from the inside are going to increase in frequency and aggression especially now that it's becoming normalized.

EDIT: Ah shit. I said I wouldn't participate in this fuckshow of arguing with brickwall propaganda talking points anymore yet here I am.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The lawsuit was about altering the electoral college vote and giving the presidency to Trump. Trump wanted this, and Trump's allies wanted this. They lost.



Okay, but where is the consistency when you subtract Pence being Trump's Ally, and therefore also representative of what Trump supposedly wants, from the situation?  It's like you are watching Trump vs Trump and you are cheering that Trump lost against Trump.  I have no idea what this is supposed to achieve or fortify.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Okay, but where is the consistency when you subtract Pence being Trump's Ally, and therefore also representative of what Trump supposedly wants, from the situation?  It's like you are watching Trump vs Trump and you are cheering that Trump lost against Trump.  I have no idea what this is supposed to achieve or fortify.


Trump wanted this, and Trump's allies who brought the lawsuit wanted this. They lost. Whether or not Pence, a supposed Trump ally, also wanted this is irrelevant.

Side note: Trump is allegedly quite unhappy with Pence for planning to properly count the electoral college votes, so "Trump ally" might be a stretch when contemporaneously describing Pence. Pence might consider himself a Trump ally, but Trump himself might not consider Pence an ally.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump wanted this, and Trump's allies who brought the lawsuit wanted this. They lost. Whether or not Pence, a supposed Trump ally, also wanted this is irrelevant.



It's not irrelevant.  It's the core of my point.  It seems that you are so interested in the narrative that Trump lost, that it doesn't matter if Trump's interest appears on both sides of the argument.

Furthermore, you could sue your own mother for more electoral votes for Trump, be denied, just to add another tick to the scorecard--because that's "what Trump wants".

It was a shit-show when it began, and somehow it has gotten worse.



Lacius said:


> Side note: Trump is allegedly quite unhappy with Pence for planning to properly count the electoral college votes, so "Trump ally" might be a stretch when contemporaneously describing Pence. Pence might consider himself a Trump ally, but Trump himself might not consider Pence an ally.



Further reinforcement of the term "ally" being used arbitrarily.


----------



## RandomUser (Jan 3, 2021)

Lacius said:


> When Obamacare was passed, you could keep your insurance plan if you liked it. If a person got their insurance through an employer, it's very likely they didn't see much of a change other than added benefits. If a plan didn't meet certain base standards, then it may have been required to change to meet those standards after a few years. *Nobody was forced off their plans or had to change their doctors specifically because of Obamacare.*
> Project Gunrunner was a George W. Bush era policy. It was not authorized by Obama.
> 
> The Obama administration did not spy on Trump nor the Trump campaign.
> Biden is indeed the president-elect.


Well, now that is a load of BS. I lost a good insurance plan because of it and the selections of health plans disappeared after ACA passed, so I was then stuck with the "only" insurance plan available and it sucked. Now, however there are options and the coverage is much better.
Suppose ACA may have a play in this, if it did, doesn't change that people may have lost the plan that they liked, because of it.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

RandomUser said:


> Well, now that is a load of BS. I lost a good insurance plan because of it and the selections of health plans disappeared after ACA passed, so I was then stuck with the "only" insurance plan available and it sucked. Now, however there are options and the coverage is much better.
> Suppose ACA may have a play in this, if it did, doesn't change that people may have lost the plan that they liked, because of it.



Wait. So ACA caused you to lose a good insurance plan, then caused you to to find one much better? You call BS, but then go on to say "*Suppose* ACA *may* have a play in this, *if it did*, doesn't change that people *may have* lost...."? You sound extremely uncertain if the ACA even did in fact effect you negatively or not, or anyone else for that matter. I have yet to see anyone provide me with an ounce of factual evidence that they were negatively effected by the ACA. Your employer at the time might have been a better place to point the finger at.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 3, 2021)

Isn´t it funny that 99% of people who wanted Biden to win don´t see voter fraud and the other way round?
People as predictable as sheep. 

I am glad Trump lost but I have to admit there were shady things going on. The early Trump lead was predictable (as his voters tend to vote less by mail) but this special election also enabled fraud attempts left and right.

Of course the courts are not going to overturn an election. They seek unity and peace and are not apolitical.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Okay, but where is the consistency when you subtract Pence being Trump's Ally, and therefore also representative of what Trump supposedly wants, from the situation?  It's like you are watching Trump vs Trump and you are cheering that Trump lost against Trump.  I have no idea what this is supposed to achieve or fortify.


Marc's referring to "their lawsuits," as in the lawsuits Trump and his allies have filed to subvert the election.  By that standard they're 1-60 with a grand total of 0 election fraud victories.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> Obama: "Change we can believe in", "You can keep your plan and your doctor", "No problem.  We can sell weapons to the Mexican cartels and nobody will be the wiser", "Let's keep an eye on this Trump fellow"
> Biden:  "I am the president elect."
> 
> Yeah, ditto.


False equivalence.  Nobody lies more than Trump.  83% of polled Republicans said they believe he's honest.

Since you like polls:

*Nearly half of Republicans (44%) believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements*
https://news.yahoo.com/new-yahoo-ne...ght-may-hamper-vaccine-efforts-152843610.html


----------



## Xzi (Jan 3, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Isn´t it funny that 99% of people who wanted Biden to win don´t see voter fraud and the other way round?


Oh no, there was definitely election fraud, and right out in the open.  Trump told his supporters to vote twice, and a number of them took that advice to heart.  That's why he's so pissed that he lost: he did cheat, and still got massively outvoted anyway.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

Must suck for Republicans to cheat and still lose, get caught trying to cheat, keep trying to cheat after getting caught, then lose some more. Lmao.


----------



## RandomUser (Jan 3, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Wait. So ACA caused you to lose a good insurance plan, then caused you to to find one much better? You call BS, but then go on to say "*Suppose* ACA *may* have a play in this, *if it did*".


You have completely missed the point. Lacius was saying that nobody lost their insurance, when that is false. Got it now?
No never did find one better, that plan is long gone now.
There was lots of options before ACA, after ACA passed those option was gone, except for that *one* plan that sucks. It took until 2017 or 2018 for more options to start showing up and the coverage is better then what was that *only* insurance plan that was offered. After ACA and before 2017 or 2018 was the dark ages for insurance plan. I do not know if Trump made some changes to the ACA or added to it or not.
I don't know anyone else actually lost their insurance plan or not, because I did not ask, tis why I used "may". I do know what happened to me, and yes ACA did effect me in a negative way, due to being forced to take a crappy plan for several years and never to see the same level of coverage that I once had.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Oh no, there was definitely election fraud, and right out in the open.  Trump told his supporters to vote twice, and a number of them took that advice to heart.  That's why he's so pissed that he lost: he did cheat, and still got massively outvoted anyway.


Lol yeah.  They voted twice.  Once in the mail, and once at the booth.  For some reason their mail in ballots all came in as Biden.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Lol yeah.  They voted twice.  Once in the mail, and once at the booth.  For some reason their mail in ballots all came in as Biden.


Nah they were all predictably caught, so neither of their votes for Trump counted.

Maybe next time if Republicans are planning to accuse somebody else of fraud, their candidate should avoid endorsing fraud on live TV ahead of the election.  S'all I'm sayin'.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

RandomUser said:


> You have completely missed the point. Lacius was saying that nobody lost their insurance, when that is false. Got it now?
> No never did find one better, that plan is long gone now.
> There was lots of options before ACA, after ACA passed those option was gone, except for that *one* plan that sucks. It took until 2017 or 2018 for more options to start showing up and the coverage is better then what was that *only* insurance plan that was offered. After ACA and before 2017 or 2018 was the dark ages for insurance plan. I do not know if Trump made some changes to the ACA or added to it or not.
> I don't know anyone else actually lost their insurance plan or not, because I did not ask, tis why I used "may". I do know what happened to me, and yes ACA did effect me in a negative way, due to being forced to take a crappy plan for several years and never to see the same level of coverage that I once had.



No, I didn't miss anything whatsoever. Kinda wasted your time. You said very clearly in reference to your own situation, "Suppose ACA may have a play in this, if it did".  Regardless, how about some proof if you really feel ACA was to blame?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> No, I didn't miss anything whatsoever. Kinda wasted your time. Regardless, how about some proof?



https://www.factcheck.org/2013/10/reality-confronts-obamas-false-promise/

I can kind of see why you think someone talking back to you would be wasting their time.


----------



## RandomUser (Jan 3, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> No, I didn't miss anything whatsoever. Kinda wasted your time. You said very clearly in reference to your own situation, "Suppose ACA may have a play in this, if it did".  Regardless, how about some proof if you really feel ACA was to blame?


I'm not sure how to acquire proof, that letter is years old and probably threw it away. Besides I am not insured by any employer. Since it is self bought.
Look I know ACA is not all bad and some good did came with it, like insurance must cover people with pre existing conditions, which is a great and even requires insurance to have certain coverage in them. I can only hope coverage will improve over time and meet or even exceed the level of coverage I once had. Things are looking better since a long time.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

The primary thing I didn't like about ACA was that it forced people to be covered by health insurance, even if they didn't want it.  It looked like an assault on independent people.


----------



## RandomUser (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The primary thing I didn't like about ACA was that it forced people to be covered by health insurance, even if they didn't want it.  It looked like an assault on independent people.


Yes, perhaps it did, however I think it was intended to protect them when the needs for doctors or emergency is needed so they supposedly don't go bankrupt. The thing is some people are still filing bankruptcy due to medical bills and what nots, so clearly has a long ways to go, either that maybe Universal Care?
I didn't like the idea of mandate health insurance or face a penalty, but then again, everyone that owns and drives a vehicle is required to buy insurance, perhaps it really isn't that different? I do see the needs for both insurance.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 3, 2021)

There is an argument that owning and operating a vehicle is privilege.  (It's arguably a necessity for some)  I think that the encroachment on personal health is a step beyond.  Some people would rather live their lives, and face their disease on a personal level.  Taxation is already a big issue.  People aren't allowed to delegate what their taxes are used for.  During Obama's regime, the taxes that civilians paid, paid for Obama's bombing of a hospital and Afghan wedding.

To force people to pay for medical practices that they disagree with (like abortion), beyond that, it is just another outlet for political (and corporate) corruption.

*Snip*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's not irrelevant.  It's the core of my point.  It seems that you are so interested in the narrative that Trump lost, that it doesn't matter if Trump's interest appears on both sides of the argument.
> 
> Furthermore, you could sue your own mother for more electoral votes for Trump, be denied, just to add another tick to the scorecard--because that's "what Trump wants".
> 
> ...


It's not that I'm interested or invested in the narrative that Trump and his allies lost another case. It's that Trump and his allies lost another case. Like, that's an incontrovertible fact.

If Trump and/or notable Trump allies sued my mother for more electoral votes and lost, I could indeed call that another loss for them. It wouldn't be much more or less ridiculous than some of the other lawsuits they've put forward, including the most recent one we're talking about.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



RandomUser said:


> Well, now that is a load of BS. I lost a good insurance plan because of it and the selections of health plans disappeared after ACA passed, so I was then stuck with the "only" insurance plan available and it sucked. Now, however there are options and the coverage is much better.
> Suppose ACA may have a play in this, if it did, doesn't change that people may have lost the plan that they liked, because of it.


I'm sorry you were personally affected in a negative way by Obamacare, assuming that's what happened for a moment, and my intention is not to minimize your experience or pain, but a lot of these anecdotes end up being that people were happy with their plans that no longer existed because they were dirt cheap, and they were dirt cheap because the plans didn't meet the most basic requirements for what a health insurance plan should cover. Was that possibly the case?

I'm glad you've had better luck since then with the exchanges.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The primary thing I didn't like about ACA was that it forced people to be covered by health insurance, even if they didn't want it.  It looked like an assault on independent people.


I also didn't like the individual mandate, but there were a lot of good reasons for it.

Without the mandate, people could conceivably go off their insurance when they didn't think they needed it, and go on their insurance when they thought they did need it. The thinking was this would cause insurance prices to increase, causing more people to leave, causing prices to go up, causing more people to leave, and so on in a positive feedback loop.
The goal of Obamacare was to make it so thousands of people wouldn't die every year solely because they didn't have adequate health insurance. There were two ways to do that: automatically cover them (e.g. Medicare for All), or create some sort of penalty for individuals if they don't get themselves covered.
One of the ways the law was going to keep prices low was to make sure young and/or healthy people would buy health insurance who were unlikely to actually use it. The thinking was that by causing an influx of people paying into the system without pulling out of the system, premiums would go down.
There was a lot of convoluted silliness about Obamacare, and it was because the decision was made to keep for-profit private health insurance a thing so as not to uproot the system. That was a mistake, and Medicare for All would have made things a lot less stupid.

Anecdotally, I saw first-hand the pain the individual mandate caused some people. People who were physically unable to afford health insurance were forced to pay the mandate penalty because it was the far cheaper option. The reality of this anecdote though is this only happened to those specific people because the conservatives on the Supreme Court struck down the Medicaid expansion provision that required states to expand Medicaid. If that hadn't happened, literally everyone in my anecdote would have gotten free coverage under Medicaid. The only reason they didn't qualify for subsidies on the exchange is because they were too poor, since Medicaid was supposed to cover people that poor.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2021)

I can't believe people still buy the "you can keep your doctor" line, the new HHS regulations pushed insurers to cancel plans that deviated from the new standards even slightly, the administration forced their hand. It was even PolitiFact's Lie of the Year in 2013. We don't know how many plans were cancelled outright, analysts estimate it was around 4 million. 2% of the insured population, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but it wasn't "exceedingly rare" either.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ar-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

It was obviously a lie from the get-go, which is why the list of caveats only kept growing each time it was mentioned.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> https://www.factcheck.org/2013/10/reality-confronts-obamas-false-promise/
> 
> I can kind of see why you think someone talking back to you would be wasting their time.


With the exception I already described, there was nothing about the Obamacare law that caused people to lose their plans. Health insurance plans were in flux long before Obamacare was passed, and they will be in flux long after. The single exception is when a plan didn't meet extremely basic requirements for what health insurance should be, since these so-called plans were arguably health insurance in name only. If you want to count the end of these ineffective plans as "people losing the health insurance they liked," then I will agree with you that Obamacare displaced some people, but the Obama administration always acknowledged this, it wasn't a bad thing, and it accounts for a very small minority of people.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2021)

> One example: PBS Newshour interviewed a woman from Washington, D.C., who was a supporter of the health care law and found her policy canceled. New policies had significantly higher rates. She told Newshour that *the only thing the new policy covered that her old one didn’t was maternity care and pediatric services*. And she was 58.
> 
> "*The chance of me having a child at this age is zero*. So, you know, I ask the president, why do I have to pay *an additional $5,000 a year for maternity coverage that I will never, ever need?*" asked Deborah Persico.


It's almost as if customers were better off picking a plan that actually addresses their needs as opposed to buying into an expensive spaghetti factory. Might save you $5K a year.


----------



## urherenow (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Taxation is already a big issue.  People aren't allowed to delegate what their taxes are used for.  During Obama's regime, the taxes that civilians paid, paid for Obama's bombing of a hospital and Afghan wedding.
> *Snip*


Yea, like remember when we didn't have $5billion to pay for wall construction on our borders, but now we have $700billion to give away overseas? Even to those who aren't our allies like Pakistan? For frivolous bullshit like "gender studies"?

This is a non-partisan post, by the way. The entirety of congress is to blame as far as I'm concerned, considering they had enough votes to override a veto.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 3, 2021)

Not sure how we got on the topic of ACA, aka Romneycare, but let's not forget: Joe Lieberman (a DINO if ever there was one) was the deciding vote that killed single-payer and/or the public option.  And that's what Obama was actually pushing for.  Leaving the US healthcare industry be was not an option, as it was hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars per year, and even the occasional headache would disqualify you from receiving healthcare coverage.  It was unsustainable, and the ACA may be too small a bandaid to fix that entirely.  Now let's watch for the next four years as any attempts to improve the program are obstructed by Republicans.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I can't believe people still buy the "you can keep your doctor" line, the new HHS regulations pushed insurers to cancel plans that deviated from the new standards even slightly, the administration forced their hand. It was even PolitiFact's Lie of the Year in 2013. We don't know how many plans were cancelled outright, analysts estimate it was around 4 million. 2% of the insured population, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but it wasn't "exceedingly rare" either.
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ar-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/
> 
> It was obviously a lie from the get-go, which is why the list of caveats only kept growing each time it was mentioned.



I can't believe people still try to push the lie that they were forced to change doctors. You also missed one of tabzers little smart ass comments during your "clean up".


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 3, 2021)

Why do people keep acting as if there isn't better healthcare outside the USA?


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 3, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Why do people keep acting as if there isn't better healthcare outside the USA?


perhaps sunk cost fallacy? idk, just shooting in the dark

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

or, more likely, nationalism


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 3, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I can't believe people still try to push the lie that they were forced to change doctors. You also missed one of tabzers little smart ass comments during your "clean up".


All the posts that remained in the thread are, in my eyes, compliant with the rules of the board, but you're welcome to use the report button if you think something was missed. As for "believing the lie", it's a well-documented fact that this happened to millions of people, so it's not even a conversation worth having.


Xzi said:


> Not sure how we got on the topic of ACA, aka Romneycare, but let's not forget: Joe Lieberman (a DINO if ever there was one) was the deciding vote that killed single-payer and/or the public option.  And that's what Obama was actually pushing for.  Leaving the US healthcare industry be was not an option, as it was hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars per year, and even the occasional headache would disqualify you from receiving healthcare coverage.  It was unsustainable, and the ACA may be too small a bandaid to fix that entirely.  Now let's watch for the next four years as any attempts to improve the program are obstructed by Republicans.


It's funny how it's Obamacare when the program is getting praise, but Romneycare when it's being criticised. All optics, no substance. You are correct though, it is a band-aid on a fundamentally broken system that does need to be completely dismantled.


----------



## morvoran (Jan 3, 2021)

Well folks and leftist jokes, it looks like ol' Joe has finally started plans to concede this election.  Usually, around this time, construction of the inaugural stage would be going non-stop until Jan 20th, but it seems that instead of putting up the stands, they are starting to dismantle them.  This, as well as Kamala's resistance to giving up her Senate seat, makes it seem that Joe is pre-planning his unavoidable arrest due to years of treason, election fraud, and other crimes against the US and rest of the world.

That or he knows that nobody will show up just like they didn't on all his rallies, virtual events, his acceptance speech, or the November 3rd election.

https://wjla.com/news/local/photos-...ed-as-bidens-plan-virtual-inauguration-parade




Foxi4 said:


> All the posts that remained in the thread are, in my eyes, compliant with the rules of the board


  except all the "off-topic" posts, but I'll go back under my rock before you look into that too much.....


----------



## XDel (Jan 3, 2021)

It's weird, Trump has way more followers on all his social media accounts than Biden... Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, etc. 

Biden didn't even campaign and now he is the most voted for candidate in U.S. history. Curious


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So VP Pence wins and it counts for a loss against "Trump and his Allies".



perhaps this will clean things up


----------



## Xzi (Jan 3, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It's funny how it's Obamacare when the program is getting praise, but Romneycare when it's being criticised. All optics, no substance. You are correct though, it is a band-aid on a fundamentally broken system that does need to be completely dismantled.


Most Republicans use "Obamacare" with negative connotations without even understanding that it's the same thing as the ACA.  But it's always been Romneycare, as it was implemented in Utah long before it went national.  It's the one and only healthcare plan Republicans have managed to devise over the last several decades or even centuries, so of course they preferred it to single-payer or the public option when it came time to vote.

The only fix for our healthcare system which can possibly hold up for the long term is to join the rest of the first-world nations in implementing national/universal coverage.  And I don't think Biden's plan is going to get us there.  You can't squeeze blood from a tomato, and you can't expect workers to pay out of pocket for private healthcare insurance after a year-long pandemic and recession.


----------



## morvoran (Jan 3, 2021)

No point in discussing any future plans Biden might have as he won't be inaugurated.  The only term he is going to serve is a life sentence in prison for treason and other "kiddie" related crimes.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> No point in discussing any future plans Biden might have as he won't be inaugurated.


"No point in discussing reality, Mr. Un-Reality is here!"


----------



## morvoran (Jan 3, 2021)

Good off topic response there.  Maybe, you can try discussing how Joe could have possibly won when he has no support any other time.

You can't say he's so popular that more people voted than him than legal possible voters (even though he somehow pulled it off).
Edit: I guess he did admit it to everyone when he said he had the biggest, most effective voter fraud org, ever.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> No point in discussing any future plans Biden might have as he won't be inaugurated.  The only term he is going to serve is a life sentence in prison for treason and other "kiddie" related crimes.



Joe Biden will be inaugurated January 20. The Electoral College has already cast its votes.
There is no evidence Joe Biden ever committed treason of any kind.
There is no evidence Joe Biden ever committed child-related crimes of any kind.



morvoran said:


> Good off topic response there.  Maybe, you can try discussing how Joe could have possibly won when he has no support any other time.
> 
> You can't say he's so popular that more people voted than him than legal possible voters (even though he somehow pulled it off).
> Edit: I guess he did admit it to everyone when he said he had the biggest, most effective voter fraud org, ever.


The response by Xzi was not off-topic, regardless of whether or not you agree with him. The topic is Joe Biden's victory over Trump.

Joe Biden is more popular than Donald Trump by any objective metric. Most importantly, he won a majority of votes from the popular vote and the Electoral College. Random sampling polling also shows this to be true.

Joe Biden has never admitted to having an organization for election fraud.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Good off topic response there.  Maybe, you can try discussing how Joe could have possibly won when he has no support any other time.
> 
> You can't say he's so popular that more people voted than him than legal possible voters (even though he somehow pulled it off).
> Edit: I guess he did admit it to everyone when he said he had the biggest, most effective voter fraud org, ever.


Sources to Biden admitting to having a voter fraud organization?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 3, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Sources to Biden admitting to having a voter fraud organization?


You do know the source will end up being some far right website that will turn out to be well known for making up shit as that's always where their sources are from


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> All the posts that remained in the thread are, in my eyes, compliant with the rules of the board, but you're welcome to use the report button if you think something was missed. As for "believing the lie", it's a well-documented fact that this happened to millions of people, so it's not even a conversation worth having



"I can kind of see why you think someone talking back to you would be wasting their time." was absolutely intentional flaming/trolling. But whatever. 

No one was forced to do anything. You could still see your same doctor if you wanted to. Fact. You're right, not even a conversation worth having.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

More treason and scam attempts to steal elections.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...l-georgia-votes-presidential-election-2021-01


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 3, 2021)

XDel said:


> It's weird, Trump has way more followers on all his social media accounts than Biden... Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, etc.
> 
> Biden didn't even campaign and now he is the most voted for candidate in U.S. history. *Curious*


*Joe Biden's approval rating is already higher than Trump's has ever been, a new poll has found*
https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-approval-rating-higher-donald-trump-gallup-poll-2020-12


> A new poll has found that *President-elect Joe Biden is already more popular among Americans than President Trump has been at any point* during or immediately before his presidency.





> *Biden's favorability rating rose by 6 points to 55%* since the election compared to his last pre-election survey, according to a Gallup survey carried out after the election.





> Over the same period, *Trump's favorability rating decreased by 3 points to 42%*.





> A separate Reuters/Ipsos poll carried out in November found that *nearly 80% of Americans believed Biden was the winner of the election while just 3% said Trump won.*


There's nothing curious whatsoever about a candidate with a much higher approval rating defeating his opponent.  Trump's rabid cult-like celebrity status on social media isn't evidence that he should've won nor is it evidence that he was the victim of election fraud.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Maybe, you can try discussing how Joe could have possibly won when he has no support any other time.


What more is there to discuss?  A pet rock would've beaten Trump in this election (and in IQ).  You can't just sit on your ass watching 350,000 Americans die and expect there to be no consequences for it.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 3, 2021)

*Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor. *

Source:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

Yup once more, corrupt Trump trying to change votes any way that he can. What a piece of .... ! And this guy still has followers. *facepalm*

On top of all of this, he calls 359,715 US deaths fake news.... Everything is wrong with this guy... I cannot believe normal, educated people can follow and believe this guy.

Source:https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 3, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor. *
> 
> Source:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html
> 
> ...


It’s impressive that Trump is literally trying to overturn the election, trying to skew results, and literally trying to steal the election. But somehow his followers are blind to this and still believe the man.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 3, 2021)

I'll believe that Biden won when Kamala leaves the Senate.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 3, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor. *
> 
> Source:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html
> 
> Yup once more, corrupt Trump trying to change votes any way that he can. What a piece of .... ! And this guy still has followers. *facepalm*



I posted this literally 3 posts above yours.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 3, 2021)

I'm here for the inevedible #TrumpTapes denials, "fake news" and whataboutisms


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'll believe that Biden won when Kamala leaves the Senate.


There is nothing unusual about Kamala Harris staying in the Senate until just before her inauguration as vice president. Joe Biden did the same thing after the 2008 election (he waited until five days before the inauguration before he left the Senate to become the vice president).

However, you're actually making progress, because Harris will inevitably leave the Senate this month, and then you'll finally believe Biden won.


----------



## mammastuffing (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Usually, around this time, construction of the inaugural stage would be going non-stop until Jan 20th, but it seems that instead of putting up the stands, they are starting to dismantle them.


Yes. Usually there isn't a pandemic going on.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 3, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'll believe that Biden won when Kamala leaves the Senate.


You realize they don’t step down until they’ve officially been given the position, right? Pence didn’t even give up his position as Governor of Indiana until he was officially sworn in as the VP, that’s literally how this works.


----------



## smf (Jan 3, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Maybe, you can try discussing how Joe could have possibly won when he has no support any other time.



Because more people voted for him on the day?

It's like you don't understand elections.



mammastuffing said:


> Yes. Usually there isn't a pandemic going on.



Cue Trump pointing out that more people turned up for his inauguration that Biden's.

Q: Will there still be an inauguration during the pandemic?
As of now, an Inauguration Day event with only about 1,000 people in attendance is being set up
Although I'm sure he'd still lie about there being more at his than obama's


----------



## Lacius (Jan 3, 2021)

smf said:


> Because more people voted for him on the day?
> 
> It's like you don't understand elections.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter how Biden's inauguration goes. Trump falsely claimed that his inauguration was bigger than Obama's or anybody else's in history, but that was demonstrably a lie.


----------



## smf (Jan 3, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It doesn't matter how Biden's inauguration goes. Trump falsely claimed that his inauguration was bigger than Obama's or anybody else's in history, but that was demonstrably a lie.



Trumps supporters will think it matters :-)


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

*‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’*
*Yup I’m sure thats what a winner says. *


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 4, 2021)

Trump is now 100% guilty of treason, extortion, and election fraud. LOCK HIM UP!!!!!


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 4, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’*
> *Yup I’m sure thats what a winner says. *


Trump “Biden cheated! Voter fraud!”
Also Trump “Please fake votes for me”


----------



## Lacius (Jan 4, 2021)

> Raffensperger said Trump was being misled by claims on social media. Trump repeatedly mentioned Ruby Freeman, a Georgia election worker who has been the target of false conspiracy theories online.
> 
> "Mr. President, the problem you have with social media is that people can say anything," he said.
> 
> *"Nah, this isn't social media," Trump responded. "This is Trump media."*


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...election-results-remarkable-hourlong-n1252692

Trump is a fucking joke.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 4, 2021)




----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 4, 2021)

In before Trumpers be like "Fake news. He clearly wanted 11,780 BOATS"!!!!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 4, 2021)

this happened


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I posted this literally 3 posts above yours.



Yup and I'm glad you did... It's not about who posts it first, it's about how many!


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 4, 2021)

Where's morvoran, ULTRA, and tabzer? I'm anxiously awaiting to see how they spin this one. Like I said, I'm sure it will be something as completely idiotic as "He said BOATS!!!"


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Where's morvoran, ULTRA, and tabzer? I'm anxiously awaiting to see how they spin this one. Like I said, I'm sure it will be something as completely idiotic as "He said BOATS!!!"


Lol I’m pretty sure they will just read Newsmax and they “Trump did not say anything illegal”
*Trump Ga. Transcript Shows Case for Vote Fraud, President Acted Properly*


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> In before Trumpers be like "Fake news. He clearly wanted 11,780 BOATS"!!!!


Fake news. He said moats. He needs that many for the wall that Mexico paid for.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 4, 2021)

Cue conservative blue checks on twitter saying

leaKinG natIOnal sECuRItY CALL Was WORsE tHAN WhAt THe PrEsIDenT WAS askINGG!
we NEeD invEStigATION INtO BrAd fOr this "fEDerAL OffEnSE" nOW!

And here we are: I see the MAGA blue checks are out early with the “snitches get stitches” response pic.twitter.com/8JuAQXpSX4— R.J. Lehmann (@raylehmann) January 3, 2021


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> "I can kind of see why you think someone talking back to you would be wasting their time." was absolutely intentional flaming/trolling. But whatever.
> 
> No one was forced to do anything. You could still see your same doctor if you wanted to. Fact. You're right, not even a conversation worth having.


You and everybody else in this thread know that doctors are not obligated to participate in ACA exchanges - many don't. Not only that, if a doctor was not taking on any new plans and your old plan was not grandfathered in, you effectively had no other choice but to find a new plan, and by extension a new doctor. If you got bumped all the way down to Medicare/Medicaid and your doctor didn't accept that, then that's that - new doctor. Again, well-documented fact, not worth having a debate over since it happened to millions of people.


> "*Depending on the plan you choose in the marketplace*, you may be able to keep your current doctor," a Health and Human Services official tells us, adding, "*Different plans have different networks and providers*...if staying with your current doctors is important to you, check to see if they are included before choosing a plan."
> 
> https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/26/fact-check-you-can-keep-your-own-doctor/


Since there exist circumstances wherein you *couldn't* find a new plan that would enable you to see your old doctor, Obama's statement is false by definition, according to me and according to CNN, so go argue with them, not me.


----------



## smf (Jan 4, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump is a fucking joke.



I do agree, the conversation is a good example of what happens when your boss is an idiot but he doesn't like to be reminded of it.

However, him wanting to find 12 thousand votes isn't criminal. He's obviously talking about being able to exclude enough votes that he has convinced himself are invalid.

It's obvious that he's much more suited to business where bravado can win in the short term and in the long term you just need good lawyers. When you come up against someone who can't be bribed then you have a much bigger issue.



Foxi4 said:


> You and everybody else in this thread know that doctors are not obligated to participate in ACA exchanges - many don't.



They might retire or die as well. I'm not sure that obama should be responsible for doctors who are unwilling to see you.

Are you suggesting that there should be legal recourse against doctors who refuse to provide care under ACA? Or some kind of voodoo to reanimate the corpse of dead doctors?



stanleyopar2000 said:


> leaKinG natIOnal sECuRItY CALL Was WORsE tHAN WhAt THe PrEsIDenT WAS askINGG!



If he's got nothing to hide then he wouldn't need to keep it a secret ;-)


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> They might retire or die as well. I'm not sure that obama should be responsible for doctors who are unwilling to see you.
> 
> Are you suggesting that there should be legal recourse against doctors who refuse to provide care under ACA? Or some kind of voodoo to reanimate the corpse of dead doctors?


I'm not suggesting anything, I am making a statement of fact. The government strong-armed insurers to drop plans that "couldn't be grandfathered in" which led to people having to change plans and, by extension, their doctors since their old ones did not operate on the same networks. That's the statement that was disputed, and I was correct.

If you're asking me for suggestions, perhaps the government *shouldn't have* intervened at all in cases where a citizen already had a plan and didn't want to change it, regardless of regulations for *new* plans. It was very simple to make the new regulations apply to *new enrollments only*, effectively grandfathering in all currently active plans. In fact, it would've been one line of text in the legislation. Not including it caused people to be dropped from plans that were *more affordable and appropriate* for them, granny doesn't need guaranteed maternity care, fact.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 4, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> You and everybody else in this thread know that doctors are not obligated to participate in ACA exchanges - many don't. Not only that, if a doctor was not taking on any new plans and your old plan was not grandfathered in, you effectively had no other choice but to find a new plan, and by extension a new doctor. If you got bumped all the way down to Medicare/Medicaid and your doctor didn't accept that, then that's that - new doctor. Again, well-documented fact, not worth having a debate over since it happened to millions of people.
> Since there exist circumstances wherein you *couldn't* find a new plan that would enable you to see your old doctor, Obama's statement is false by definition, according to me and according to CNN, so go argue with them, not me.



Except you're wrong. And why would I argue with CNN? They're not involved in this conversation. I don't give two shits what insurance a person has or does not have. No one was forced to stop seeing their doctor. People made the choice to see a different doctor based on their insurance. Huge difference. It's like saying having to wear a mask is taking away ones freedoms.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Except you're wrong. And why would I argue with CNN? They're not involved in this conversation. I don't give two shits what insurance a person has or does not have. No one was forced to stop seeing their doctor. People made the choice to see a different doctor based on their insurance. Huge difference. It's like saying having to wear a mask is taking away ones freedoms.


It's okay, I don't need a concession from you, I already demonstrated what the experts had to say. Again, if your old plan literally no longer existed and the doctor you used to see was unavailable to you for one of the three listed (and many unlisted) reasons, you had to go elsewhere. You're still between stage 1 and stage 2, we can continue the conversation after you're done with denial and anger. You'll get to acceptance eventually.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> I do agree, the conversation is a good example of what happens when your boss is an idiot but he doesn't like to be reminded of it.
> 
> However, him wanting to find 12 thousand votes isn't criminal. He's obviously talking about being able to exclude enough votes that he has convinced himself are invalid.
> 
> ...


Trump tried to convince Raffensperger to announce that he had arbitrarily recalculated the vote totals and that Trump had won. The phone call is damning, and it's almost certainly evidence of criminal behavior on the part of Trump.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Where's morvoran, ULTRA, and tabzer? I'm anxiously awaiting to see how they spin this one. Like I said, I'm sure it will be something as completely idiotic as "He said BOATS!!!"


Maybe he's making fun of Japanese people who cannot pronounce "v" sound?  I don't really know and I know that there's an audio leaked over a phonecall.  As usual, both sides are running opposite directions with it.  One thing I know, is that people criticizing Trump is "%100 percent making up things he didn't say", as you claimed about me--so that makes you a hypocrite?   Not an interesting conversation imo.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Trump tried to convince Raffensperger to announce that he had arbitrarily recalculated the vote totals and that Trump had won



Can you quote the part where he says this?  It looks like an interpretation.


----------



## smf (Jan 4, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump tried to convince Raffensperger to announce that he had arbitrarily recalculated the vote totals and that Trump had won.



Did he? My understanding was that he wanted them to accept there was fraud and to issue new totals after taking that fraud into account. I don't think the evidence of fraud is compelling, but Trump appears to. So I don't think his intent is for the votes to magically change.

Trumps argument on the numbers is flawed, it's standard in business to pick a big number and then argue that even if it's wrong by a lot then it's still a big number. His bias means he can't comprehend it could be out by 100%

But that is just being dumb, not corrupt.



Foxi4 said:


> The government strong-armed insurers to drop plans that "couldn't be grandfathered in" which led to people having to change plans and, by extension, their doctors since their old ones did not operate on the same networks. That's the statement that was disputed, and I was correct.



I thought it was worthless plans & ones the insurers made worthless on purpose.

I guess it comes down to whether you think you should let insurers con people or not.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 4, 2021)

I think those who believe that Trump knows he's making up the claim of fraud would interpret it as @Lacius has suggested.  But those who think that Trump believes it happened is trying to get the guy to come clean.  Still, none of us can verify and have to rely on trust.  That's what's messed up imo.  At least half the nation is bold enough to tell that they don't trust it.  Probably a lot more don't trust the system enough to go on some record and admit it out loud.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 4, 2021)

... I have to admit, this Post has become entertaining to read, especially to find out why this continues to burn.

So I'll add my log into the fire.
As a species we have certain speech mannerisms, especially in Asia where certain languages are wholly contextual whilst others have registers and the biggest meanings are usually implicit.

As such, what's interesting in the phone call is said mannerism.
The questions asked may seem like simple questions, but when you're an adult who's been doing business all your adult life, with all sorts of people from different cultures, you know that those aren't questions per se.

They're instructions, posed as questions to provide a level of deniability.
When those don't work, then one would try a more direct approach, as can be heard as the call progresses.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> I thought it was worthless plans & ones the insurers made worthless on purpose.
> 
> I guess it comes down to whether you think you should let insurers con people or not.


You thought wrong. In many cases the plans that were cancelled did not include coverage that some consumers simple wouldn't require in their lifetime. I firmly believe that it is the consumer who should have the right to pick what plan they deem acceptable without the HHS coming from on high to tell them what's necessary coverage and what isn't. Maternity care is one such instance - not everyone needs it, either due to age or due to pre-existing conditions, or simply by choice. Grandfathered/grandmothered small plans that do not include maternity coverage expire in 2021 (provided the state in question agreed to the extension in January last year), so there's a lot of women who are going to be very surprised by their insurance bills going up this year. There are many conditions for which coverage is mandatory under HHS regulations, including ones that some individual or small group buyers are highly unlikely to suffer from, which drives premiums up.


----------



## morvoran (Jan 4, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Sources to Biden admitting to having a voter fraud organization?


 I already posted that in this thread. Linked it for you since your search button may be broke as you couldn't google it yourself.



AmandaRose said:


> You do know the source will end up being some far right website that will turn out to be well known for making up shit as that's always where their sources are from


  Yeah, you can't get more "far right" than the horse himself.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...he-united-states.576824/page-220#post-9296049



Xzi said:


> What more is there to discuss?  A pet rock would've beaten Trump in this election (and in IQ).  You can't just sit on your ass watching 350,000 Americans die and expect there to be no consequences for it.


  Since the majority of these so called "covid related" deaths occur in Demonrat ran cities (most likely to hurt Trump by killing their own), I think you need to worry about what your leadership is doing instead of the person trying to repair the damage caused by decades of corruption by the democrats.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Since the majority of these so called "covid related" deaths occur in Demonrat ran cities (most likely to hurt Trump by killing their own), I think you need to worry about what your leadership is doing instead of the person trying to repair the damage caused by decades of corruption by the democrats.


wow you sure fell down that Conspiracy rabbit hole.. lol you are just a few inch from wearing a tin foil hat....  its sad to see how some Americans go bat shit crazy in make believe.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Yeah, you can't get more "far right" than the horse himself.
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...he-united-states.576824/page-220#post-9296049



Yep and that links to a number of stories from true pundit a far right website known for making up shit  thank you for proving my point.


----------



## morvoran (Jan 4, 2021)

mammastuffing said:


> Yes. Usually there isn't a pandemic going on.


Oh, that's right, the "pandemic" has only been going on for the past couple days.  Shame it didn't start well before they made their original plans..  SMH... brainlets.

I heard they also planned a parade that only about 4 people rsvp'd that got cancelled.  I guess this recent "pandemic" also made them change their long term plans.



AmandaRose said:


> Yep and that links to a number of stories from true pundit a far right website known for making up shit  thank you for proving my point.


   Yeah, because a known "CCP paid for news" org is also trustworthy.   What part of that video of Joe saying he had a voter fraud org was "far right lies"???  SMH  

By the way, congrats on finally winning your place on "morvoran's ignore list".  I gave you a chance, but you never bring anything to the conversations other than "far right lies", "that's a far right site", or some other bs.


----------



## smf (Jan 4, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> In many cases the plans that were cancelled did not include coverage that some consumers simple wouldn't require in their lifetime.



Do you have any examples?



morvoran said:


> Oh, that's right, the "pandemic" has only been going on for the past couple days.  Shame it didn't start well before they made their original plans..  SMH... brainlets.



Maybe they listened to the commander in chief who said it would go away all on it's own?


----------



## morvoran (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> Because more people voted for him on the day?
> 
> It's like you don't understand elections.



Like you don't understand election fraud.  Look how many times the election worker scans all those "one person, one vote" ballots. 



Instead of just relying on your CCP news media orgs, you should see reality for what it is....   it's really messed up.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> By the way, congrats on finally winning your place on "morvoran's ignore list".  I gave you a chance, but you never bring anything to the conversations other than "far right lies", "that's a far right site", or some other bs.


no ...say it isn't  soo ....your ignore list ......GOD Why...
but at least it good to know you choose to say ignorant by blocking people with different views ..( by different I mean views and news that is backed by journalism and facts ...and not by white hooded nationalists  blog
 :::cough:::*Stephen Miller*


----------



## smf (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Like you don't understand election fraud.  Look how many times the election worker scans all those "one person, one vote" ballots.



Are they scanning ballots or doing photocopying? I'm no expert, but it kinda looks like it would take a while loading them into that, but maybe it came up with an error and told her to rescan?

It would be rational to think that a computer system for scanning ballots would look for some kind of identification mark and would then see that they've been scanned multiple times.

If nobody is taking your video seriously, then it's probably not what you think it is.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> Do you have any examples?


Way ahead of you, I already have earlier in the thread.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Like you don't understand election fraud.  Look how many times the election worker scans all those "one person, one vote" ballots.
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of just relying on your CCP news media orgs, you should see reality for what it is....   it's really messed up.



funny posting Random clips that has no context.. and just reading the captions that someone wrote is standard Proof in a court of law ... thats why Trump keeps winning court case!!!


----------



## smf (Jan 4, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Way ahead of you, I already have earlier in the thread.



If you post a link then I'll read it, otherwise I'll assume your argument is weak.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> If you post a link then I'll read it, otherwise I'll assume your argument is weak.


Scrolling finger sore or a broken scroll wheel? Fortunately I don't care what you assume, considering I'm posting well-known and widely accepted facts.


----------



## morvoran (Jan 4, 2021)

smf said:


> Are they scanning ballots or doing photocopying? I'm no expert, but it kinda looks like it would take a while loading them into that, but maybe it came up with an error and told her to rescan?
> 
> It would be rational to think that a computer system for scanning ballots would look for some kind of identification mark and would then see that they've been scanned multiple times.
> 
> If nobody is taking your video seriously, then it's probably not what you think it is.


Oh, I'd go further, but you are already  having another conversation unrelated to this thread. I'll wait for you two to finish.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Oh, I'd go further, but you are already  having another conversation unrelated to this thread. I'll wait for you two to finish.


oh you mean like you refusing to acknowledge TRUMP's *‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’ *

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

oh don't forget the mention the light Threat Trump made " and you're not reporting it -- that's the -- you know, that's a criminal, that's a criminal offense. And, you know you can't let that happen. That's -- *that's a big risk to you and Ryan (Germany), your lawyer, that's a big risk*,"


----------



## tabzer (Jan 4, 2021)

I imagine that at least 11,780 exist.  And being threatened by the law.  Yeah, that's weak.  Instead of telling him he's going to get arrested by continuing, he should just let him get arrested because he's already a criminal.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I imagine that at least 11,780 exist.  And being threatened by the law.  Yeah, that's weak.  Instead of telling him he's going to get arrested by continuing, he should just let him get arrested because he's already a criminal.


wait so you saying that GA State Brad Ratffensperger is a Criminal for not finding any voter Fraud ...after 3 full recounts and 1 Signature match in Cobbs county ...lol
sorry Tabzer but you just became a bigger joke than me... and thats sad..


----------



## tabzer (Jan 4, 2021)

djpannda said:


> wait so you staying that GA State Brad Ratffensperger is a Criminal for not finding any voter Fraud ...after 3 full recounts and 1 Signature match in Cobbs county ...lol
> sorry Tabzer but you just because a bigger joke than me... and thats sad..


Lol, what?  Does your comprehension self-terminate whenever there isn't a laugh track to accompany your posts?  You look like a mess.  The insinuation is that he is complicit in fraud.  If you can't acknowledge the other side of the argument, then you make "Ratffensperger" look worse than before you said anything.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Lol, what?  Does your comprehension self-terminate whenever there isn't a laugh track to accompany your posts?  You look like a mess.  The insinuation is that he is complicit in fraud.  If you can't acknowledge the other side of the argument, then you make "Ratffensperger" look worse than before you said anything.



but the " other side of the argument" has not provided any proof of fraud that can hold up.
1. lost 60 court case...
2. no arrest ( other than people voting Twice for Trump)
3. Even Trumps Top attorney Rudy Giuliani stated in Court " This is not a Fraud Case"

  all you present is a Blog of people whining... and thats not proof.. its just a Blog of people whining...
you would think that if there was """ wide spread Fraud""  at least 1 of 60 judges ( some Trump appointed) would at least entertain the idea... but no...

but please repost your blog of people whining to continue to show how easily you and others can be Scammed in giving Trumps pocket 200+ million of dollars


----------



## leon315 (Jan 4, 2021)

The result of election is definitive, according to many of US lawmakers planned (Nancy Pelosi),  most likely it won't change unless a miracle.
This is not only about numbers of vote anymore, but it shows how Trump administration failed and incapable to protect the US citizens and US economy face the greatest challenge ever since The Great depression, thus many have had realized that to make america great again, he has to be *replaced.

Trump has the whole world against him, he won't able to succeed whatever  he's planning for.*


----------



## mammastuffing (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Oh, that's right, the "pandemic" has only been going on for the past couple days.  Shame it didn't start well before they made their original plans..  SMH... brainlets.
> 
> I heard they also planned a parade that only about 4 people rsvp'd that got cancelled.  I guess this recent "pandemic" also made them change their long term plans.


And your point is...?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 4, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It's okay, I don't need a concession from you, I already demonstrated what the experts had to say. Again, if your old plan literally no longer existed and the doctor you used to see was unavailable to you for one of the three listed (and many unlisted) reasons, you had to go elsewhere. You're still between stage 1 and stage 2, we can continue the conversation after you're done with denial and anger. You'll get to acceptance eventually.



You're adding bits and pieces here and there to fit your narrative. Not going to point out what they are, but your reply is very severely flawed. Figure it out. You also seem to have way too much invested in this & way too many opinionated thoughts about it all for a cynical absurdest, but the cynicism clearly shows. Would your head explode if I told you you're thinking about this way too much, that there's no real meaning behind it all, and that it's completely pointless to begin with because eventually you'll die & it all wont matter anyway?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Maybe he's making fun of Japanese people who cannot pronounce "v" sound?  I don't really know and I know that there's an audio leaked over a phonecall.  As usual, both sides are running opposite directions with it.  One thing I know, is that people criticizing Trump is "%100 percent making up things he didn't say", as you claimed about me--so that makes you a hypocrite?   Not an interesting conversation imo.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...




You said you didn't even listen to it, then make accusations of making things up, then ask for "where did he say that?" when it's clearly in the audio. Try listening to it. My god you are incredibly STUPID!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 4, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You're adding bits and pieces here and there to fit your narrative. Not going to point out what they are, but your reply is very severely flawed. Figure it out. You also seem to have way too much invested in this & way too many opinionated thoughts about it all for a cynical absurdest, but the *cynicism clearly shows*. Would your head explode if I told you you're thinking about this way too much, that there's no real meaning behind it all, and that it's completely pointless to begin with because eventually you'll die & it all wont matter anyway?


Interesting observation. You might be onto something. 

In any case, I'm saying it how it *is*, not how it was promised. This isn't something you can have an "opinion" on, it's something that happened, and is well-documented. We can certainly argue about specific cases and the underlying causes, sure, but outright denial is just silly, it makes you look like a contrarian. You're entirely correct in your nihilist response - we will all eventually die, who needs a healthcare plan anyways, particularly the one they themselves picked only to have it taken away.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> I already posted that in this thread. Linked it for you since your search button may be broke as you couldn't google it yourself.
> 
> Yeah, you can't get more "far right" than the horse himself.
> 
> ...


It takes three second to Google and find out with context he was talking about the program setup to prevent voter fraud and of course other intentionally omitted details that were not included in the clip
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...s-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/04/bogus-vote-fraud-claims-proliferate-social-media/


----------



## Lacius (Jan 4, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I think those who believe that Trump knows he's making up the claim of fraud would interpret it as @Lacius has suggested.  But those who think that Trump believes it happened is trying to get the guy to come clean.  Still, none of us can verify and have to rely on trust.  That's what's messed up imo.  At least half the nation is bold enough to tell that they don't trust it.  Probably a lot more don't trust the system enough to go on some record and admit it out loud.





smf said:


> Did he? My understanding was that he wanted them to accept there was fraud and to issue new totals after taking that fraud into account. I don't think the evidence of fraud is compelling, but Trump appears to. So I don't think his intent is for the votes to magically change.
> 
> Trumps argument on the numbers is flawed, it's standard in business to pick a big number and then argue that even if it's wrong by a lot then it's still a big number. His bias means he can't comprehend it could be out by 100%
> 
> ...


During the call, Trump asked Raffensperger "to find" enough votes for him to win the state:
"So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes."

Trump told Raffensperger to arbitrarily change the vote:
"And there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, um, that you've recalculated."

Solicitation of election fraud is a crime.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> Since the majority of these so called "covid related" deaths occur in Demonrat ran cities


It's a virus.  It doesn't have a political preference.  This is why you lost.


----------



## JasonMay (Jan 4, 2021)

I love political threads, so many arguments here, lol, it makes me laugh


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

I love how the Some people are literally one step away from Blaming Reverse Vampires
@tabzer @morvoran @UltraSUPRA
"The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires are forcing Georgia Secretary of State to ignore Voter Fraud"


----------



## Lacius (Jan 4, 2021)

morvoran said:


> I already posted that in this thread. Linked it for you since your search button may be broke as you couldn't google it yourself.
> 
> Yeah, you can't get more "far right" than the horse himself.
> 
> ...


COVID-19 deaths are more likely to occur in densely populated areas, regardless of the political parties in charge.

That being said, when you control for other variables, places with mask mandates, etc. have fewer deaths than places without mask mandates, and Democratic officials are more likely to impose mask mandates, etc.

So I'm actually listening to the full audio, and wow. Just wow. If you haven't done so, you should do so. Trump is such a joke. It would be funny if it weren't criminal.


> Raffensperger: Mr. President, they did not put that. We did an audit of that, and we proved conclusively that they were not scanned three times.
> 
> Trump: Where was everybody else at that late time in the morning? Where was everybody? Where were the Republicans? Where were the security guards? Were the people that were there just a little while before when everyone ran out of the room. How come we had no security in the room. Why did they run to the bottom of the table? Why do they run there and just open the skirt and rip out the votes. I mean, Brad. And they were sitting there, I think for five hours or something like that, the votes.
> 
> ...


----------



## djpannda (Jan 4, 2021)

oh look what Georgia is saying about their elections .. 




Cant wait for Trumps "much better links" lol


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 4, 2021)

every time something utterly absurd happens, something humans with brains could not possibly justify, i like to give it 24 hours to marinate, then have a look in this thread
i have yet to be disappointed


----------



## Xzi (Jan 4, 2021)

Lacius said:


> So I'm actually listening to the full audio, and wow. Just wow. If you haven't done so, you should do so. Trump is such a joke. It would be funny if it weren't criminal.


My favorite bit was when Raffensperger tells Trump, "you're getting this shit from social media," (paraphrased) and Trump says, "it's not social media, it's *Trump* media."


----------



## Lacius (Jan 4, 2021)

Xzi said:


> My favorite bit was when tells Trump, "you're getting this shit from social media," (paraphrased) and Trump says, "it's not social media, it's *Trump* media."
> 
> View attachment 240504


That was my favorite, too. It was the first thing I posted.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 5, 2021)

*Trump reportedly tried calling Georgia's secretary of state 18 times before finally getting him on the phone to pressure him to 'find' 11,780 votes*

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...secretary-of-state-18-times-report-2021-1?amp

Oh my God... I'm laughing my ass off.... Cause that's what desperate people do!


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *Trump reportedly tried calling Georgia's secretary of state 18 times before finally getting him on the phone to pressure him to 'find' 11,780 votes*
> 
> Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-tried-calling-georgia-secretary-of-state-18-times-report-2021-1?amp
> 
> Oh my God... I'm laughing my ass off.... Cause that's what desperate people do!


It reminds me of the time Trump was caught trying to call the governor of Arizona while he was certifying the vote in that state (and the Governor ignored the call).

https://www.modbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article247525750.html


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 5, 2021)

Forgot to mention, can't believe this thread has surpassed the election thread so quickly and by so much.


----------



## morvoran (Jan 5, 2021)

leon315 said:


> Trump has the whole world against him, he won't able to succeed whatever he's planning for.



If you only get your news from anti-trump sources, I can see why you'd think that.

The Best Shows of Support For Trump From Around the World 

‘Taiwan, Fight for Trump’, ‘Stop the Steal’: Rally in Taipei sees participants voicing their support for Donald Trump 

If you want to tell how much support he gets here in the US, just compare the number of views between Trump and Joe Biden today in Georgia.

I don't know what Biden is planning, but he won't be president.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lilith Valentine said:


> takes three second to Google and find out with context he was talking about the program setup to prevent voter fraud and of course other intentionally omitted details that were not included in the clip


Following by the example of uninformed leftists, I'll just go with the context I saw in that video. It was plain as day that he admitted to voter fraud.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 5, 2021)

morvoran said:


> If you only get your news from anti-trump sources, I can see why you'd think that.
> 
> The Best Shows of Support For Trump From Around the World
> 
> ...




*Support for Trump in Hong Kong and Taiwan Is Unsurprising (But Misguided)

Source: https://thediplomat.com/2020/11/sup...ong-and-taiwan-is-unsurprising-but-misguided/

Taiwan fears loss in US support as Trump booted from office

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...oss-in-us-support-as-trump-booted-from-office

*
For those of us who only read/listen to "republican" news. It's pretty easy to think of why Taiwan would support Trump. 

1) They are scared of war with China

2) Joe Biden's administration will no longer sell Taiwan weapons of war as Trump has been doing

3) Taiwan will not be getting any special treatment from Joe Biden's administration (unlike Trump has been doing)

There's one thing that makes people well informed.... Read read read.... Read it all from all angles. Because there's no fake news if you get both sides of a story and inform yourself about everything that's going on.

Ignorance isn't a good excuse when all the info is right at the touch of your fingers.


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump told Raffensperger to arbitrarily change the vote:
> "And there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, um, that you've recalculated."



The way I interpreted that is Trump thinks that he is refusing to recalculate because he doesn't want to admit they made a mistake & that if he did recalculate then based on all the fraud that Trump believes exists then it would come to a figure that shows that Trump won.

I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but that is what I believe he meant and I think that is what Trump would say in court.

Trump seems to believe that it's a lack of motivation to look that is preventing him being declared the winner.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> The way I interpreted that is Trump thinks that he is refusing to recalculate because he doesn't want to admit they made a mistake & that if he did recalculate then based on all the fraud that Trump believes exists then it would come to a figure that shows that Trump won.
> 
> I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but that is what I believe he meant and I think that is what Trump would say in court.
> 
> Trump seems to believe that it's a lack of motivation to look that is preventing him being declared the winner.


The way I understand the exchange is similar - Trump believes that there are pre-existing irregularities to be found if only they are investigated in a manner he would find satisfactory. He is confident that the votes will be "found" and wants the election in Georgia audited up until the point where he meets the victory threshold - he's already confident that he did as is. At no point does he issue any specific threat. I also fail to see how he encourages "manufacturing" votes for himself, he simply wants Raffensperger to "look for them until he finds them", so to speak. By saying that "there's nothing wrong in saying that he recalculated" Trump means just that - there's no shame in being wrong about the count on the first go-around. The whole conversation is framed around existing votes, not magically conjured up votes. Trump insists on "only counting legal votes" just as he does publicly and he's refusing to accept Raffensperger's explanations as legitimate. He also flaunts a couple of theories he read about as a general inquiry, which is innocuous, if a bit silly. The only ominous-sounding part of the phone call is Trump saying that Raffensperger is taking a big political risk by certifying the election at this stage, which he objectively is given the fact that a majority of Republican voters believe there were shenanigans involved and this certification may demoralise the public, lowering the turnout for the Senate run-off. That's not a threat, that's a statement of fact, given the circumstances.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> The way I interpreted that is Trump thinks that he is refusing to recalculate because he doesn't want to admit they made a mistake & that if he did recalculate then based on all the fraud that Trump believes exists then it would come to a figure that shows that Trump won.
> 
> I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but that is what I believe he meant and I think that is what Trump would say in court.
> 
> Trump seems to believe that it's a lack of motivation to look that is preventing him being declared the winner.


When Trump is consistently talking about "wanting to find only 11,000 votes," suggesting they should just arbitrarily announce that they've recalculated and Trump won, and he's repeatedly refusing to listen to any of the proof that at least some of Trump's purported examples of fraud didn't happen, then the argument that Trump is only concerned with voter fraud falls apart. Trump is trying to steal the election by any means necessary, and what Trump did was likely illegal.

If you haven't done so, listen to the entire call.


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> When Trump is consistently talking about "wanting to find only 11,000 votes," suggesting they should just arbitrarily announce that they've recalculated and Trump won,



I understand your point of view, but to me Trump is basically saying "we know there is x number of fraudulent votes, which is 10 times what we need to win, we therefore don't care if you don't believe us that it's x, as long as you accept it's 1/10th of x".

It's classic business negotiation. It's what I would expect from Trump, I don't think he believes he is asking for them to commit fraud.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> I understand your point of view, but to me Trump is basically saying "we know there is x number of fraudulent votes, which is 10 times what we need to win, we therefore don't care if you don't believe us that it's x, as long as you accept it's 1/10th of x".
> 
> It's classic business negotiation. It's what I would expect from Trump, I don't think he believes he is asking for them to commit fraud.


The "as long as you accept it's 1/10th of x" shows he doesn't care about election integrity; he only cares about winning. In other words, he's saying "as long as I win, I don't care how much of the fraud is found."

He's also been told that x isn't correct, but not only does he not believe it; he has no interest in hearing it.



> Raffensperger: Mr. President, we’ll send you the link from WSB.
> 
> Trump: I don’t care about the link. I don’t need it. Brad, I have a much better — we're going to have much better links.



These are words that demonstrate Trump doesn't care about the truth; he only cares about winning.


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The "as long as you accept it's 1/10th of x" shows he doesn't care about election integrity; he only cares about winning. In other words, he's saying "as long as I win, I don't care how much of the fraud is found."



I agree, but not caring that all the fraud is found is not the same as asking to commit fraud.

Nobody cares about election fraud unless it changes the result, whether it was 2 or 3 or 10 people who had a postal ballot and subsequently died is not important.

Trump is just coming at it from the other direction, he thinks it's hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes. From his point of view he has more integrity than someone who refuses to accept there is enough to have changed the result.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

*Trump Planning Escape to Scotland on Day Before Biden Inauguration*
I saw this Rumor and the first thing I thought was @AmandaRose playing the long CON... lol jp


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The "as long as you accept it's 1/10th of x" shows he doesn't care about election integrity; he only cares about winning. In other words, he's saying "as long as I win, I don't care how much of the fraud is found."



That demonstrates that the priority is to secure his election, but it doesn't show that he doesn't care about election integrity.



Lacius said:


> These are words that demonstrate Trump doesn't care about the truth; he only cares about winning.



He obviously believes that Roffensperger is being deceitful and lying, but he isn't saying so directly.  Trump asks questions of Brad that Trump already has answers to.  If you listen to his whole spiel right before Brad said "I'll send you the links," Trump already knows that it is deflective unaccountability.  He wasn't really looking for the actual answers to the questions as he already has them, but he seems to be pressuring Brad to represent instead of being so passive.




D34DL1N3R said:


> You said you didn't even listen to it, then make accusations of making things up, then ask for "where did he say that?" when it's clearly in the audio. Try listening to it. My god you are incredibly STUPID!



It's very obvious that Trump didn't say that. You are %100 making things up.  Quote the specific part, and I will tell you how your interpretation is wrong *Snip!*.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> I agree, but not caring that all the fraud is found is not the same as asking to commit fraud.
> 
> Nobody cares about election fraud unless it changes the result, Trump is just coming at it from the other direction.


I agree, but Trump's lack of interest in hearing the evidence that fraud didn't occur and his insistence that the election results be changed are arguably evidence that Trump is pressuring him to commit fraud.



tabzer said:


> That demonstrates that the priority is to secure his election, but it doesn't show that he doesn't care about election integrity.


A person with the priority of winning the election is not someone who should legally be able to pressure those responsible for making sure it was a fair and secure election. There should be a wall of separation between the candidates and those responsible for counting the votes and certifying the election. At worst, what Trump did was illegal. At best, what Trump did was improper.



tabzer said:


> He obviously believes that Roffensperger is being deceitful and lying, but he isn't saying so directly.  Trump asks questions of Brad that Trump already has answers to.  If you listen to his whole spiel right before Brad said "I'll send you the links," Trump already knows that it is deflective unaccountability.  He wasn't really looking for the actual answers to the questions as he already has them, but he seems to be pressuring Brad to represent instead of being so passive.


Trump clearly doesn't have the answers to most of those questions, and he refused to listen to those answers.

I lost count of how many times Trump had to be told that ballots conclusively weren't scanned three times, but Trump refused to listen and had no interest in looking at the tape or news report. Admittedly, we're at a point where we have to ask ourselves: Is Trump wilfully committing fraud, or is he just an idiot? Can Trump be shielded by the fact that he might legitimately believe the things he's saying, or is the kind of willful ignorance on display potentially criminally negligent?


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I agree, but Trump's lack of interest in hearing the evidence that fraud didn't occur and his insistence that the election results be changed are arguably evidence that Trump is pressuring him to commit fraud.



Trump has never had an interest in listening to people who disagree with him.

He is just begging him to see the fraud that Trump knows exists.

Trump is delusional, but that doesn't mean he is asking for anyone to commit fraud.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> Trump has never had an interest in listening to people who disagree with him.


And if Trump is pressuring officials to change election results despite being shown evidence that fraud didn't happen, that's potentially criminal. Whether or not Trump did it with his fingers in his ears is perhaps irrelevant.


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> And if Trump is pressuring officials to change election results despite being shown evidence that fraud didn't happen, that's potentially criminal. Whether or not Trump did it with his fingers in his ears is perhaps irrelevant.



Not if he believes the evidence that fraud didn't happen is fake. You can argue it isn't reasonable for him to believe that. But he does seem to and it fits with his character.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's very obvious that Trump didn't say that. You are %100 making things up.  Quote the specific part, and I will tell you how your interpretation is wrong (and shows how stupid you are).


Wow I'm so Proud of you Tabzer, because a month ago you did not understand most American Idiom but I Guess You were taking night classes on American colloquials. Because all of a sudden you can Interpret what the American Mob boss... I mean president meant


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump clearly doesn't have the answers to most of those questions, and he refused to listen to those answers.



Most?  Idk.  Some, definitely, like regarding the question about why people went straight to the ballots hidden under the tables, in which Brad said, "I'll send you the links."--as the answer was followed up afterward by Trump's side.  It doesn't appear that Trump was calling for the intention of "finding the truth" with this phone call.  So claims that he doesn't care about the truth based on the context of this audio is kind of irrelevant, and unaccountable of times spent before and after the phonecall.



Lacius said:


> I agree, but Trump's lack of interest in hearing the evidence that fraud didn't occur and his insistence that the election results be changed are arguably evidence that Trump is pressuring him to commit fraud.



Trump was pressuring him to find mistakes or to be individually accountable and assert himself.



Lacius said:


> A person with the priority of winning the election is not someone who should legally be able to pressure those responsible for making sure it was a fair and secure election.



Maybe.



Lacius said:


> There should be a wall of separation between the candidates and those responsible for counting the votes and certifying the election. At worst, what Trump did was illegal. At best, what Trump did was improper.



I could agree with improper, but I don't know what Trump knows about Raffensperger and the whole situation.  I'm just a peon on the receiving end of state propaganda..



Lacius said:


> I lost count of how many times Trump had to be told that ballots conclusively weren't scanned three times,



They were scanned 3 times.  It is on video.  Now were they actually recorded, adjusted, or what?


----------



## forerofore (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> Trump has never had an interest in listening to people who disagree with him.
> 
> He is just begging him to see the fraud that Trump knows exists.
> 
> Trump is delusional, but that doesn't mean he is asking for anyone to commit fraud.


its the president of the united states, unlike other people he has the power to pressure others to commit the fraud, he is a grown adult that is accountable for whatever he says and he is well aware that he is suggesting for fraud in his favor to happen.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

forerofore said:


> he is well aware that he is suggesting for fraud in his favor to happen.



There is more evidence of wide spread voter fraud than evidence of that.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

so has your American colloquial class gone over threats yet...
because you know swimming with the fishes... no not really swimming...
1.Swimming with the fishes - They would cement your feet and throw you in a river to drown
2. Pulling up daisy - They are dig your own grave before they kill you 



NOW your turn Please interpret       " *that's a big risk to you and your lawyer, that's a big risk*,"



tabzer said:


> There is more evidence of wide spread voter fraud than evidence of that.


Don't forget the Reverse Vampires.. Please explain how the Reverse Vampire are Supervising all this Election fraud


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Yeah, I don't particularly like the idea of someone threatening legal action against someone.  The image of bargaining seems to be lacking in good taste.  But the suggestion that you would know better is laughable.



djpannda said:


> They are dig your own grave before they kill you



I guess the only language you know is "thug life". Definitely not English.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Most?  Idk.  Some, definitely, like regarding the question about why people went straight to the ballots hidden under the tables, in which Brad said, "I'll send you the links."--as the answer was followed up afterward by Trump's side.  It doesn't appear that Trump was calling for the intention of "finding the truth" with this phone call.  So claims that he doesn't care about the truth based on the context of this audio is kind of irrelevant, and unaccountable of times spent before and after the phonecall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A person who cares about winning, not the truth, shouldn't be pressuring election officials. Pressuring someone to find mistakes, not pressuring someone to check for mistakes, is improper.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I guess the only language you know is "thug life". Definitely not English.


"thing life"... are you making a Stereotypical remark based on my speech and color of my skin
Congrats you just became a full on Trumper!!

again ,,,,please Explain how the Reverse Vampire orchestrated voter Fraud


----------



## Master X (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> There is more evidence of wide spread voter fraud than evidence of that.



Not according to Barr in his statement of the subject

https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...85f060-439c-11eb-b0e4-0f182923a025_story.html

But that's the kicker isn't it? Trump supporters point to the existence of any one or two off cases of fraud, or even the possibility that fraud could happen, as proof that that millions of votes are fraudulent. As a lawyer argued in a case in support of Trump... They don't have to prove that voter fraud happened. 

As for the small scale stuff, here's a collection of it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...be541c-42de-11eb-b0e4-0f182923a025_story.html

Handfuls of cases at best in areas where, if Trumps claims of rampant fraud are to be believed, tens of hundreds of millions of thousands of dead people were supposed to have voted.

And as for all the 'potential' cases of fraud? Well...



> Local officials have complained that they have fielded more false complaints of fraud that must be chased down as a result of the rhetoric from the president and his supporters. Trump’s claims encouraged people to report routine procedures they simply did not understand as possible problems, contributing to an atmosphere of suspicion, they said.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> "thing life"... are you making a Stereotypical remark based on my speech and color of my skin
> Congrats you just became a full on Trumper!!
> 
> again ,,,,please Explain how the Reverse Vampire orchestrated voter Fraud



Aren't you just a black and white furry who happens to see Trump as a threat to your survival?  Based on your literacy disability, I think you are just being paranoid and overly impressionable.  



Lacius said:


> A person who cares about winning, not the truth, shouldn't be pressuring election officials. Pressuring someone to find mistakes, not pressuring someone to check for mistakes, is improper.



A person who doesn't actually know all the motives of someone should not make claims about the motives of someone.  Trump gave a list of mistakes for them to check for--or that they weren't fully accounting for.  More than enough to find the amount he needs to win.  My understanding that this was a "settlement" conference call, which is weird.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *Trump Planning Escape to Scotland on Day Before Biden Inauguration*
> I saw this Rumor and the first thing I thought was @AmandaRose playing the long CON... lol jp


Trump is fucking insane if he thinks it's a good idea to come here. For one the Scottish people despise him for all the shady business deals he does here with his hotel and golf course and other numerous businesses he has in Scotland . Secondly the Scottish government have said several times that as soon as he in no longer president they are going to charge him for his various law breaking business deals he has committed in Scotland. Thirdly he won't be allowed in the country anyway as we are in a full lockdown where nobody is allowed in or out of the country and it is currently illegal for us to leave our homes unless to exercise ect.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-scotland-police-increase-patrols-lockdown-restrictions-become-law-3085090?amp


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Master X said:


> Not according to Barr in his statement of the subject
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...85f060-439c-11eb-b0e4-0f182923a025_story.html



If WAPO still hides behind paywalls or account registration, then it's not good enough of a source imo.

Also, your falsely titled article "Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud"

"Justice Department has uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could change the outcome of the 2020 election."

All he does is pass the buck.  He just makes claims about what the FBI didn't find (to nobody's surprise).

It's just Barr being pathetic, and "not responsible" which is what people hate about politicians.  He's not even strong enough to say that there is no fraud.  So the propaganda news says it for him.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> If WAPO still hides behind paywalls or account registration, then it's not good enough of a source imo.


Why pay for real news.. when you can crowd source social media for all the news you need right TAZBER


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Why pay for real news.. when you can crowd source social media for all the news you need right TAZBER



There is no incentive to pay for emotionally charged headlines from a group that primarily serves as a lobby.

I'll take your "real news" and raise with a "Russia did it".  I'll double down with a "Clintion is going to win".


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Aren't you just a black and white furry who happens to see Trump as a threat to your survival?  Based on your literacy disability, I think you are just being paranoid and overly impressionable.
> 
> 
> 
> A person who doesn't actually know all the motives of someone should not make claims about the motives of someone.  Trump gave a list of mistakes for them to check for--or that they weren't fully accounting for.  More than enough to find the amount he needs to win.  My understanding that this was a "settlement" conference call, which is weird.


I provided evidence for Trump's supposed motives.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> There is no incentive to pay for emotionally charged headlines from a group that primarily serves as a lobby.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> I'll take your "real news" and raise it with a "Russia did it".


I'll Take your "Russia did it" and raise you "Hugo Chavez in conjunction with the Chinese people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires"

NOW That F%cking Crazy you really believed that REVERSE VAMPIRE Stole the election..


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I provided evidence for Trump's supposed motives.


You provided an interpretation, to which I pointed out fallacies of conclusive statements being without foundation.  If I am pursuing my wife, it does not mean I do not love my family. Likewise, because Trump is pursuing the a favorable election outcome does not mean he doesn't care about the truth.



djpannda said:


> I'll Take your "Russia did it" and raise you "Hugo Chavez in conjunction with the Chinese people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires"
> 
> NOW That F%cking Crazy you really believed that REVERSE VAMPIRE Stole the election..



Hugo Chavez was rigging elections before it became cool in America.  Or maybe it was with America's help?  Idk.  America rigs elections btw.  That's truth.  You can keep reverse vampire.  That's your thing.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You provided an interpretation, to which I pointed out fallacies of conclusive statements being without foundation.  If I am pursuing my wife, it does not mean I do not love my family. Likewise, because Trump is pursuing the a favorable election outcome does not mean he doesn't care about the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Hugo Chavez was rigging elections before it became cool in America.  Or maybe it was with America's help?  Idk.  America rigs elections btw.  That's truth.  You can keep reverse vampire.  That's your thing.


Trump is on record saying he doesn't want to hear about the truth: He doesn't want to see the links. He doesn't want to see the evidence that discredits the fraud assertions.

A person pursuing a particular election outcome should not be pressuring an election official.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump is on record saying he doesn't want to hear about the truth:



Quote that.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Quote that.


The colon means the evidence is what follows.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The colon means the evidence is what follows.


So it's an interpretation, based on the notion that Brad had something new and upstanding to offer to Trump.  Something none of us haven't heard before?

I already explained, about that specific "link" reference, to which Trump already had an answer to the question he asked.  Brad was just redelegating the responsibility to someone else, and that's not what Trump was on the phonecall for.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Hugo Chavez was rigging elections before it became cool in America.  Or maybe it was with America's help?  Idk.  America rigs elections btw.  That's truth.  You can keep reverse vampire.  That's your thing.


... so your now your fear mongering claim is American rigged Venezuela's election to have Hugo Chavez as President?

SO now Hugo's Ghost, after being dead for 8 years, came back to Rig Americans election...
Now thats a Great Horror movie plot.... ELECTION 2020 part 2: HUGO's Revenge .. "now its personal"


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Your assertation is that Brad has the truth and Trump does not.  That's the foundation of your claim.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So it's an interpretation, based on the notion that Brad had something new and upstanding to offer to Trump.  Something none of us haven't heard before?
> 
> I already explained, about that specific "link" reference, to which Trump already had an answer to the question he asked.  Brad was just redelegating the responsibility to someone else, and that's not what Trump was on the phonecall for.


The evidence disproving Trump's claims was provided, and Trump didn't want to hear it. Trump was also provided a link to a report disproving Trump's claims, and Trump didn't want it. That's willful ignorance.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The evidence disproving Trump's claims was provided, and Trump didn't want to hear it. Trump was also provided a link to a report disproving Trump's claims, and Trump didn't want it. That's willful ignorance.


You are suggesting that the report is new information that nobody is aware of.  What is it?  I don't claim to know what Trump knows.  (you do)  But maybe you are on to something.  So okay, show us what Trump missed out on.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Your assertation is that Brad has the truth and Trump does not.  That's the foundation of your claim.


yes.... the man who is in Charge of the Election in Georgia, Brad who has all the numbers and had 4 different recounts...has the Truth ... and Trump who continuously states he does not know ...does not


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You are suggesting that the report is new information that nobody is aware of.  What is it?  I don't claim to know what Trump knows.  (you do)  But maybe you are on to something.  So okay, show us what Trump missed out on.


I didn't suggest it's new information. I said Trump has no desire to look at it. He offered no rebuttal other than to say he "didn't care about it."


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> yes.... the man who is in Charge of the Election in Georgia, Brad who has all the numbers and had 4 different recounts...has the Truth ... and Trump who continuously states he does not know ...does not



For a man who is supposedly in charge, he does a lot to make himself appear as only a middleman.  Also, things like the NSA and FISA courts exist, so I am biased to leaning towards the Federal government having more information.




Lacius said:


> I didn't suggest it's new information. I said Trump has no desire to look at it. He offered no rebuttal other than to say he "didn't care about it."



So, if it's not new information, then he would have no desire to look at it again.  Isn't that right?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> For a man who is supposedly in charge, he does a lot to make himself appear as only a middleman.  Also, things like the NSA and FISA courts exist, so I am biased to leaning towards the Federal government having more information.


oh... ok "Federal government having more information" if that was slightly true, I don't think Trump would of had 60 court cases Thrown out...and Rudy would of not stated "this is not a Fraud Case" ... and multiple Federal Agencies  publicly stated " there was no widespread fraud"  or you know Trump calling Raffensperger to begging for votes.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Yeah.  It's easy enough to see how it appears to you.  I still think you are simple minded and not really critical enough on what's actually happening.  1 win out of 60 shit cases isn't something I am even putting any weight behind, though I do question the intent of them.  Anyway, everything you are saying is convoluted and doesn't show a linear connection--just something a WAPO headline would say.

Like, not even once, did you ask yourself "did Trump order these cases?"



djpannda said:


> slightly



Mhmm..


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> convoluted


look I can quote one word also!!
 its sad to see how people are grasping at straw. Hoping any real election fraud appears ..even after 2 months of looking..


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> look I can quote one word also!!
> its sad to see how people are grasping at straw. Hoping any real election fraud appears ..even after 2 months of looking..


Should I applaud someone who thinks that they are learning?  Well, you'll get your participation trophy from somewhere I imagine.  There is already enough evidence to convince over half of the country.  The assertation that there was "no election fraud" was a mistake to make.  It put those saying so into a defensive position that can only be whittled away at.  It's not a strong position, and it doesn't gain confidence.  What would gain confidence is if the claim, was instead, "we will investigate and audit everything to make sure that the American public can have faith in our elections".  Saying that there was no election fraud right off the bat makes you a fraudster.

Instead, with every resistance, or passing responsibility, it seems like those who are claiming that there is no fraud are actually trying to protect their fraud.  Even if there was no fraud, they make themselves look guilty.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Instead, with every resistance, it seems like those who are claiming that there is no fraud are actually trying to protect their fraud.  Even if there was no fraud, they make themselves look guilty.


well by your logic ... I claim you are a REVERSE VAMPIRE.  Please provide me your ID and Blood work, and a video of you eating Garlic to prove you are not. 
Your claim of  "not being a Vampire" is proof you are hiding the fact you are a Vampire


ohh better yet.. I claim you are a Witch. Please allow me to burn you at the stake and Drown you to prove you are not. IF you are able to fly away from the fire you are a witch but if you die I will admit your normal and We will give you a Christian burial.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Instead, with every resistance, or passing responsibility, it seems like those who are claiming that there is no fraud are actually trying to protect their fraud.  Even if there was no fraud, they make themselves look guilty.


lol you are word by word using the same  Salem witch trial logic 

https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/salem-witch-trials


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> well by your logic ... I claim you are a REVERSE VAMPIRE.  Please provide me your ID and Blood work, and a video of you eating Garlic to prove you are not.
> Your claim of  "not being a Vampire" is proof you are hiding the fact you are a Vampire
> 
> 
> ohh better yet.. I claim you are a Witch. Please allow me to burn you at the stake and Drown you to prove you are not. IF you are able to fly away from the fire you are a witch but if you die I will admit your normal and We will give you a Christian burial.


Huh, so you think an election on trial is the same as a person being on trial.  Interesting.  Dumb, but interesting.

*Snip!*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> For a man who is supposedly in charge, he does a lot to make himself appear as only a middleman.  Also, things like the NSA and FISA courts exist, so I am biased to leaning towards the Federal government having more information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Considering Trump couldn't offer a rebuttal other than "I'm not going to look at it," it's probably something Trump willfully hasn't seen.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

*Snip!*



Lacius said:


> Considering Trump couldn't offer a rebuttal other than "I'm not going to look at it," it's probably something Trump willfully hasn't seen.



Maybe, but that's placing an ante, but you aren't actually making a wager.

*Snip!*


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

forerofore said:


> its the president of the united states, unlike other people he has the power to pressure others to commit the fraud, he is a grown adult that is accountable for whatever he says and he is well aware that he is suggesting for fraud in his favor to happen.



But all he is asking is for the fraudulent votes that he believes exist, to be removed from the totals.

Just because he's an idiot with magical thinking doesn't mean you should copy him.



Lacius said:


> Trump is on record saying he doesn't want to hear about the truth: He doesn't want to see the links. He doesn't want to see the evidence that discredits the fraud assertions.
> 
> A person pursuing a particular election outcome should not be pressuring an election official.



While I personally prefer to find the truth than the result that I want & find it uncomfortable when I witness people who even just take advantage of misunderstandings, I think there are very few politicians who share the same view. Most people will believe what they want and actively avoid anything that doesn't fit their world view.

It's why I read the newspapers that I don't agree with, if you only read the news you agree with then you're just as guilty as Trump


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I did not make a racist rant against a cosplay panda furry.  I said "thug life" to point out your ridiculous limitation in vocabulary.


So your saying the Urban lifestyle that Minorities in American are force to deal with because of Mismanaged Economic stemming from Administrations from the 1970-1980s... because of that, the Education system in the Urban Environment is Subpar compared to other "less Diverse area" Meaning Their Vocabulary is not on the standard you want? 
sounds like boarder line racist rant to me!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

So, uh.  You like Biden?  Did you know he is a racist?  I could show you a video.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So, uh.  You like Biden?  Did you know he is a racist?  I could show you a video.



So, uh.  You like Trump?  Did you know he is a racist?  I could show you a video.  I can also show you videos of him mocking the disabled, throwing out paper towels to hurricane survivors, making claims of injecting light and bleach to cure COVID, putting his hands inappropriately on his daughter, talking about her in a sexual sense, saying they'd be dating if she wasn't his daughter? You know... all that stuff along with things like "covfefe", "moon is part of mars", and "the noise from wind turbines causes cancer". Oops. Did I forget about the pics and video of him partying it up with Epstein and Maxell? And the weird creepy pictures of himself with his daughter? How about the plethora of rape & sexual misconduct allegations, including but not limited to the rape of a 13 yr old girl? Extortion, bribery, harassment, voter fraud, constant lies, need I go on?

HYPOCRITE!!!!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> So, uh.  You like Trump?  Did you know he is a racist?  I could show you a video.  I can also show you videos of him mocking the disabled, throwing out paper towels to hurricane survivors, making claims of injecting light and bleach to cure COVID, putting his hands inappropriately on his daughter, talking about her in a sexual sense, saying they'd be dating if she wasn't his daughter? You know... all that stuff along with things like "covfefe", "moon is part of mars", and "the noise from wind turbines causes cancer". Oops. Did I forget about the pics and video of him partying it up with Epstein and Maxell? And the weird creepy pictures of himself with his daughter? How about the plethora of rape & sexual misconduct allegations, including but not limited to the rape of a 13 yr old girl? Extortion, bribery, harassment, voter fraud, constant lies, need I go on?
> 
> HYPOCRITE!!!!



Though that was never the subject of our conversation, I must say that somebody needs meds. 

10% of what you say seems to be real, 90% fantasy, and 100% deflection from what we were talking about.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So, you are saying that "thug life" belongs to only black people


so how long have you harbored these feelings about African Americans? Have you always referred to "Black people" as Uneducated Urban dwellers or was it your conversion in to Trumpism?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Though that was never the subject of our conversation, I must say that somebody needs meds.
> 
> 10% of what you say seems to be real, 90% fantasy, and 100% deflection from what we were talking about.



Except it was a reply to the conversation YOU started. I was pointing out the pure hypocrisy of your post. Completely on topic, so whatever. Shrug.

Tab: Biden is racist!!!! I have videos!!!!
Me: Trump is a racist and far more. I also have videos.
Tab: Off topic!!!!!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> so how long have you harbored these feelings about African Americans? Have you always referred to "Black people" as Uneducated Urban dwellers or was it your conversion in to Trumpism?



"YOU DEICED!!"



D34DL1N3R said:


> Except it was a reply to the conversation YOU started. I was pointing out the pure hypocrisy of your post. Completely on topic, so whatever. Shrug.


Wrong. I wasn't talking about Trump.  I was talking about Biden.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> YOU DEICED!!
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


man you a really moving fast... all that deflection


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "YOU DEICED!!"
> 
> 
> Wrong. I wasn't talking about Trump.  I was talking about Biden.



Wow. Just... Wow.  That's all I can say. And I thought you couldn't post anything more incredibly DUMB than you already have. I'll repost my edit for you.

Tab: Biden is racist!!!! I have videos!!!!
Me: Trump is a racist and far more. I also have videos.
Tab: Off topic!!!!!

Was it you that talked to me about echo chambers once? Might have been someone else. Regardless. Echo chamber much?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Wow. Just... Wow.  That's all I can say. And I thought you couldn't post anything more incredibly DUMB than you already have. I'll repost my edit for you.
> 
> Tab: Biden is racist!!!! I have videos!!!!
> Me: Trump is a racist and far more. I also have videos.
> ...



I didn't say it was off topic.  I addressed Biden specifically, to a post that you made, that seemed to clear him of being a racist.

It had nothing to do with Trump.

*Snip!*


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

It would he real swell if the conversation could continue without calling each other mentally ill. If the trolling and flaming situation in this thread doesn't improve, from both sides, I have remedies for that. Focus on the subject, any personal attacks will be dealt with swiftly.


----------



## forerofore (Jan 5, 2021)

nice video analizing the call from a legal perspective


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 5, 2021)

this thread has gotten so off-the-wall ridiculous it's given someone (either deluded or trolling, can't tell which) an opening to make a counterpart thread claiming trump won
good thing that got shut off fast


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

forerofore said:


> nice video analizing the call from a legal perspective


To be fair, it's an analysis from the Legal Eagle, so take it with a grain of salt. This is not his forte, he's a business litigator, not a constitutional scholar. His area of expertise are civil suits, primarily regarding contracts.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, it's an analysis from the Legal Eagle, so take it with a grain of salt. This is not his forte, he's a business litigator, not a constitutional scholar. His area of expertise are civil suits, primarily regarding contracts.


But you can say that about almost all the Trump Lawyers also
Rudy,Peter Navarro etc?
edit I know Navarro is not a lawyer but he is a close adviser


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> But you can say that about almost all the Trump Lawyers also
> Rudy,Peter Navarro etc?


That's a very fair point - true!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> But you can say that about almost all the Trump Lawyers also
> Rudy, Peter Navarro etc?


That implies Giuliani even has any area(s) of expertise to begin with!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

You called him mentally ill @D34DL1N3R. Repeatedly. That doesn't fly here - either you can argue your point politely or you don't get to argue it at all. Moderation decisions are final and not up to debate, as per our terms of service.

https://gbatemp.net/help/terms

I gave everybody a public warning regarding flaming and let your post slide because you probably didn't get the chance to read it yet - now you have, so you can't claim being uninformed about our flaming policy.

If you believe a post goes against our terms, or if you feel you're being trolled, you know what to do - report, don't respond. This applies to everybody in this thread.

Keep in mind that the Reporting feature has a time-out to prevent mass flagging. You were likely affected by this given the sheer volume of content in this thread being reported 24/7. Just raising our attention once is more than enough, we can follow the thread if you provide us with the origin of a dispute. That is all.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

...wft I went to poop and all hell broke loose.. lol 
anyway 
MAGA activists plot revenge on Republican ‘traitors’
They are turning against each other and Trump is still president for 15 days?
Man, This really is a foreshadowing the demise of the Republican Party.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ...wft I went to poop and all hell broke loose.. lol
> anyway
> MAGA activists plot revenge on Republican ‘traitors’
> They are turning against each other and Trump is still president for 15 days?
> Man, This really is a foreshadowing the demise of the Republican Party.


...what the kentucky fried fuck
these guys are so crazy that not only do they no-true-scotsman anyone they disagree with out of the party, they intend to do so rather forcefully
WHAT IN THE WHATING WHAT WHAT


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

There's not going to be a democracy at this point.  Half of America doesn't believe in voting if Trump doesn't get elected, so it's a free for all for all the political opportunists.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ...wft I went to poop and all hell broke loose.. lol
> anyway
> MAGA activists plot revenge on Republican ‘traitors’
> They are turning against each other and Trump is still president for 15 days?
> Man, This really is a foreshadowing the demise of the Republican Party.


The republican party *is* dead, and has been for a while. This is coming from a Trump supporter, so it's not exactly a biased opinion - Republicans suck, signed supporter of the Republican candidate. I don't think that the GOP represents their own set of values very well, their strategy of appeasement and making concessions has only led to their decline in key battleground states. It was infiltrated by a small wing I like to refer to as the "Trump Party" which somewhat revitalised the appeal, and this won't end with Trump. To quote commentator Ben Shapiro (IIRC), "this is not the beginning of the end, it's the end of the beginning". As older politicians are being replaced by younger representatives, Trump is going to be emulated since the approach obviously resonated with the crowds. Regardless of the outcome of the election, Trump pulled in people to the polls in higher numbers than any Republican candidate before him. People *will* campaign like Trump did in the future. I'm not certain a success like that is repeatable, but it will change the face of the party over the next decade.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

This is what I don't understand about people lumping Trump supporters with republicans.  Trump has been primarily a democrat for a big part of his life, but ran republican because he didn't' have to worry about getting Bernie Sanders'd in order to win.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The republican party *is* dead, and has been for a while. This is coming from a Trump supporter, so it's not exactly a biased opinion - Republicans suck. I don't think that the GOP represents their own set of values very well, their strategy of appeasement and making concessions has only led to their decline in key battleground states. It was infiltrated by a small wing I like to refer to as the "Trump Party" which somewhat revitalised the appeal, and this won't end with Trump. To quote commentator Ben Shapiro (IIRC), "this is not the beginning of the end, it's the end of the beginning". As older politicians are being replaced by younger representatives, Trump is going to be emulated since the approach obviously resonated with the crowds. Regardless of the outcome of the election, Trump pulled in people to the polls on higher numbers than any Republican candidate before him. I'm not certain a success like that is repeatable, but it will change the face of the party over the next decade.


I don't think it will Work again, the first time it was because "traditional Republican" keep their mouth shut thinking Trump was not going to be that Damaging. After this they will think twice about supporting people like that But if Trumpist leave the Republican party, They nor Republicans will have the National number again. as their best efforts brought Trump Record numbers but The Hate of Trump was able to bring about 6 million more


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> I don't think it will Work again, the first time it was because "traditional Republican" keep their mouth shut thinking Trump was not going to be that Damaging. After this they will think twice about supporting people like that But if Trumpist leave the Republican party, They nor Republicans will have the National number again. as their best efforts brought Trump Record numbers but The Hate of Trump was able to bring about 6 million more


I can 100% see Ted "Punished" Cruz or even Trump himself running successfully on the same platform in 2024 and winning, particularly after 4 years of a Biden/Harris shit show, and it will be a shit show, I have no doubts about that. MAGApedes like myself will never forget, being a Trumpkin is for life, not just for Christmas.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I can 100% see Ted "Punished" Cruz or even Trump himself running successfully on the same platform in 2024 and winning, particularly after 4 years of a Biden/Harris shit show, and it will be a shit show, I have no doubts about that. MAGApedes like myself will never forget, being a Trumpkin is for life, not just for Christmas.


So you believe election fraud is not a thing?

Even if you don't think it is, I have trouble believing people who would vote for Trump again will, unless the political/justice system vindicates his claims.

I'm sorry, I should call it the "controlled election".


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I can 100% see Ted "Punished" Cruz or even Trump himself running successfully on the same platform in 2024 and winning, particularly after 4 years of a Biden/Harris shit show, and it will be a shit show, I have no doubts about that. MAGApedes like myself will never forget, being a Trumpkin is for life, not just for Christmas.


you might believe the Rhetoic but a splintered "Republican Party" will not have the numbers flat out. Trump got a lot of Republican votes because some people will vote RED no matter who is on the ticket. If Trumpism splintered they can not count of those votes any more.. It will be the Tea Party moment again. Hot for 4 year cycle and die off next election.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So you believe election fraud is not a thing?
> 
> Even if you don't think it is, I have trouble believing people who would vote for Trump again will, unless the political/justice system vindicates his claims.


I'm sure some fraud has occurred, as it does every election season - Republicans complain about it this year, Democrats complained about it in 2004, and even in 2016 (although that objection flew under the radar, everyone was too busy with Russia to care). With that said, it has to be evidenced, and on that front Trump's team has, so far, failed to deliver. There are many causes on both sides - to lack of transparency in some states (signatures on envelopes rather than ballots, making the process inauditable as they cannot be matched once separated), lack of cooperation with investigators on both sides and the general ineptitude of Trump's lawyers who talk a big game on conferences, but don't bring anything groundbreaking to the courts. This is not a battle Trump can win with his core strength - public appeal. This is a legal challenge, and his legal experts are a bit cuckoo-crazy.



djpannda said:


> you might believe the Rhetoic but a splintered "Republican Party" will not have the numbers flat out. Trump got a lot of Republican votes because some people will vote RED no matter who is on the ticket. If Trumpism splintered they can not count of those votes any more.. It will be the Tea Party moment again. Hot for 4 year cycle and die off next election.


Republicans are not stupid, they understand (aside from a few exceptions) that winning is the priority, and they will support a winning candidate. They were on their fours licking boots for 4 years, they'll go back on their fours again - any party would. Principles are great, but you can't govern with them, you need to win first. Once your guy is in you can enact your principles, before that you just have to play the game.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Republicans are not stupid, they understand (aside from a few exceptions) that winning is the priority, and they will support a winning candidate. They were on their fours licking boots for 4 years, they'll go back on their fours again - any party would. Principles are great, but you can't govern with them, you need to win first. Once your guy is in you can enact your principles, before that you just have to play the game.


But that theory will only work if the Trumpist does not become Cannibals or splinter off completely 
Also the Tea Party is a great example, they won a lot of seats but the gas ran out after 2012


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> But that theory will only work if the Trumpist does not become Cannibals or splinter off completely
> Also the Tea Party is a great example, they won a lot of seats but the gas ran out after 2012


I would explain the failure of the Tea Party, but that would require the use of many explatives. Needless to say, "politics are downstream from culture" and the Tea Party was incompatible with it. The Trumpism phenomenon is somewhat unprecedented, the last time a President was this beloved by his base was when Reagan was still in charge, and he's religiously revered even today. I'm hoping Trumpism will follow in the same direction.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 5, 2021)

"Beloved" is a funny way to describe something bordering on a cult of personality.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I would explain the failure of the Tea Party, but that would require the use of many explatives. Needless to say, "politics are downstream from culture" and the Tea Party was incompatible with it. The Trumpism phenomenon is somewhat unprecedented, the last time a President was this beloved by his base was when Reagan was still in charge, and he's religiously revered even today. I'm hoping Trumpism will follow in the same direction.


I’m sure he will be remember just like Regan and like the  failure that is Reganmonics.( which attributed to the ridiculously disparaging wealth gap it created.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> "Beloved" is a funny way to describe something bordering on a cult of personality.


I don't see that as an issue as long as the droves of thralls (which exist on both sides of the aisle, by the way, and will tow the line without question) support the candidate that forwards my policy goals and represents my interests.


djpannda said:


> I’m sure he will be remember just like Regan and like the  failure that is Reganmonics.( which attributed to the ridiculously disparaging wealth gap it created.


Reaganomics worked precisely as intended and pulled the U.S. out of a recession in record time. The median household income increased by $4000, unemployment fell from 9.7% down to 5.5%, inflation fell from 13.5% down to 4.1% and around 17 million new jobs were created as a direct result of Reagan's policies - you saw similar growth under Trump until the world was hit with COVID19, rocking the entire boat. "Income inequality" or "the wage gap" is a red herring when everyone's median incomes are increasing. I'd rather be wealthier myself than equal in squalor.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see that as an issue as long as the droves of thralls (which exist on both sides of the aisle, by the way, and will tow the line without question) support the candidate that forwards my policy goals and represents my interests.


Fair point... but the problem with people that support a person and not a set of ideals is that what they actually support shifts along with that person- and Trump loves changing his mind at a moment's notice if it'll benefit him in the short-term.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 5, 2021)

Best thing to hope for now is that Dems take Senate (unlikely as of this post) and we see Trump impeached, again, before the 20th.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Fair point... but the problem with people that support a person and not a set of ideals is that what they actually support shifts along with that person- and Trump loves changing his mind at a moment's notice if it'll benefit him in the short-term.


In all fairness, I think monoliths are overrated. I'm perfectly supportive of changing political positions based on new-found information. "Flip-flopping" is only an issue when it happens back and forth repeatedly, and even then I look at those things in context.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 5, 2021)

Yeah, no. I hope the "complete denial of reality" party doesn't live on. The only "platform" Trump actually had, was finding anyone and doing anything that would enrich himself.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 5, 2021)

I understand everyone is allowed to their own opinion, but in cases like this opinion doesn't matter and FACTS do.

*GOP election official tells legislators no 'credible evidence of large-scale voter fraud' during November election*

*Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3884147001

The election was NOT stolen... There is no proof of that, and trumps Court cases all failed. *


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Yeah, no. I hope the "complete denial of reality" party doesn't live on. The only "platform" Trump actually had, was finding anyone and doing anything that would enrich himself.


Himself and millions of Americans. By late 2019 real median household income has increased by $4400, reaching a historic high of $68,700. Over the course of his presidency the figure rose by 9.7%. The U.S. also enjoyed some of the lowest rates of unemployment until the pandemic hit, leading to many businesses shutting down as a result of lockdowns decimating their revenue streams. Trump can be criticised from a variety of angles, but financial outcomes for Americans isn't one of them.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/trumps-numbers-october-2019-update/

I suspect these trends would've continued in a post-COVID economy.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

lol really??
Tonight while I was in Missouri, Antifa scumbags came to our place in DC and threatened my wife and newborn daughter, who can’t travel. They screamed threats, vandalized, and tried to pound open our door. Let me be clear: My family & I will not be intimidated by leftwing violence— Josh Hawley (@HawleyMO) January 5, 2021

he's using Antifa as a Scare tactic.. 
Look at the "Antifa" that the Right is always claiming is the boogiemen.
  .. yup a group of 15 people holding a vigil is the Scary Antifa!!!


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Himself and millions of Americans. By late 2019 real median household income has increased by $4400, reaching a historic high of $68,700. Over the course of his presidency the figure rose by 9.7%. The U.S. also enjoyed some of the lowest rates of unemployment until the pandemic hit, leading to many businesses shutting down as a result of lockdowns decimating their revenue streams. Trump can be criticised from a variety of angles, but financial outcomes for Americans isn't one of them.
> 
> https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/trumps-numbers-october-2019-update/
> 
> I suspect these trends would've continued in a post-COVID economy.



I do not fully agree with this statement. As per the link you posted, it states the following :


Economic growth fell far short of the annual 4% to 6% Trump promised. The most recent rate is 2.0%.
The federal debt went up more than $2.4 trillion. The annual deficit hit nearly $1 trillion in fiscal year 2019 – the highest since 2012.
Single-family home prices rose nearly 23%, hitting a record level in June.
The trade deficit — which Trump promised to reduce — went up 30%.
The number of Americans lacking health insurance rose nearly 2 million.
The number of murders dropped 6.9%. But the number of rapes went up.
Illegal border crossings nearly doubled, as of the most recent 12 months on record.
Source: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/trumps-numbers-october-2019-update/

Single family home prices going up seems like a good thing right, But every year you pay taxes on your homes assessment... Who do you think pockets the money and who does that hurt!?

The trade deficit went up because of currency misalignment due to Trump the US export rates were too high. source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/10/06/trump-trade-deficit-426805

Rapes increased during Trumps office, pretty much due to Trump's rhetoric of "Grab them by the P*ssy". 

So yeah I disagree with your "fact check" that Trump is making people more rich... It's a fact and it's proven that Trump inhereted a good economy. 
Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...n-t-build-great-economy-he-inherited-n1237793


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> lol really??
> https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1346308783325253633
> he's using Antifa as a Scare tactic..
> Look at the "Antifa" that the Right is always claiming is the boogiemen.
> .. yup a group of 15 people holding a vigil is the Scary Antifa!!!



I find it hilarious that they still think Antifa is even... an organization at all, and not what it is- literally just an ideology. A pretty simple and hard-to-argue-with one at that: fascism is bad.
They're so desperate to blame the left for everything that they'll make an evil organization strawman out of _an ideology._


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> By late 2019 real median household income has increased by $4400, reaching a historic high of $68,700. Over the course of his presidency the figure rose by 9.7%. The U.S. also enjoyed some of the lowest rates of unemployment until the pandemic hit



Right. But only because Trump was riding the Obama economy coat tails & the data suggests as such.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

Jay Sekulow, President Donald Trump's impeachment lawyer and personal defense attorney, said Trump's insistence that Vice President Mike Pence reject the electoral results of several states is unconstitutional.
Even Trumps personal lawyer is saying SHHHH STOP Talking!!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Right. But only because Trump was riding the Obama economy coat tails & the data suggests as such.


The data suggests that median income increases accelerated under Trump, not just compounded on top of Obama's. The increased rate of economic progress was a predictable result of economic policy pursued by Trump's administration. Even the Wall Street Journal, a publication hostile to Trump, admits as much.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-middle-class-economic-progress-11569786435



White_Raven_X said:


> Rapes increased during Trumps office, pretty much due to Trump's rhetoric of "Grab them by the P*ssy".


That's laughable. There's no causality to speak of here, rapists don't go around raping people because a celebrity said so. The increase was caused by a general trend of women feeling more empowered to come forward, a natural result of the #MeToo movement. I very much doubt the actual number of rapes has changed significantly, rather they were reported and investigated more often.


> So yeah I disagree with your "fact check" that Trump is making people more rich... It's a fact and it's proven that Trump inhereted a good economy.


He inherited a middling economy and improved upon it. Latest figures are understandably lower since we're in the middle of a pandemic.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-30/trump-s-economy-really-was-better-than-obama-s


----------



## Xzi (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The data suggests that median income increases accelerated under Trump, not just compounded on top of Obama's. The increased rate of economic progress was a predictable result of economic policy pursued by Trump's administration. Even the Wall Street Journal, a publication hostile to Trump, admits as much.
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-middle-class-economic-progress-11569786435


There have been any number of economic indicators that a crash or recession was coming since about late 2017.  Trump did absolutely nothing to avoid it, and he might have even accelerated the timeline on it with his complete disregard (and/or disdain) for the middle and lower classes.  Economics is just another of the many subjects he's clueless about.  Eight trillion added to the national debt, and all we got in return for it was $1800 each to survive on for a full year.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> There have been any number of economic indicators that a crash or recession was coming since about late 2017.  Trump did absolutely nothing to avoid it, and he might have even accelerated the timeline on it with his complete disregard (and/or disdain) for the middle and lower classes.  Economics is just another of the many subjects he's clueless about.  Eight trillion added to the national debt, and all we got in return for it was $1800 each to survive on for a full year.


The best thing the Biden administration could possibly do for the economy is to continue on the path laid out by Trump as it's providing measurable results and is a surefire way to a speedy recovery. Sadly it's also ballooning the deficit - that's pretty much the only criticism I have in regards to Trump's economic policy. The printer keeps going brrr, so I suspect rampant inflation will follow suit, which is why I suggest diversifying portfolios further and perhaps taking some of your savings and hedging, at least for the time being.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The best thing the Biden administration could possibly do for the economy is to continue on the path laid out by Trump as it's providing measurable results and is a surefire way to a speedy recovery.


A speedy recovery for who exactly?  Amazon and the like made record profits from this pandemic, they don't need to "recover" from anything.  Biden needs to raise the tax rate on big business right back to where it was before Trump cut it, maybe even put it a little higher.  If he then wants to cut taxes for those making $75,000 or less, I'm all for it.  Additionally, the student debt crisis needs to be addressed before the bubble pops and puts even more stress on the economy.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

Xzi said:


> A speedy recovery for who exactly?  Amazon and the like made record profits from this pandemic, they don't need to "recover" from anything.  Biden needs to raise the tax rate on big business right back to where it was before Trump cut it, maybe even put it a little higher.  If he then wants to cut taxes for those making $75,000 or less, I'm all for it.  Additionally, the student debt crisis needs to be addressed before the bubble pops and puts even more stress on the economy.


I'm not interested in paying off other people's debts. I'm sorry that some chumps got sold on the promise of a degree that there's no demand for on the marketplace, but that's on them - the government isn't Santa. Their names are on the dotted lines, they're the ones who got themselves into crippling debt and it's their problem - don't take out loans you can't pay off. On fact, I would love to see the higher education bubble pop - it's an industry based entirely on selling degrees for "free money" issued via government-backed loans, which is a never-ending cycle of increasing the cost of tuition. Loans did this, universities did this, previous administrations enabled this.

As for the "who", pretty much everyone benefits from Trump's aggressive domestic tax policy, especially if they have savings in stocks (55%), IRA (43% traditional, 44% Roth) or a 401K (32%) - increasingly large swathes of the population do. Millions of Americans are affected by the stock market, this is a fact. The tarrif war we can live without, let's drop that, it's not helping anyone.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not interested in paying off other people's debts. I'm sorry that some chumps got sold on the promise of a degree that there's no demand for on the marketplace, but that's on them - the government isn't Santa. Their names are on the dotted lines, they're the ones who got themselves into crippling debt and it's their problem - don't take out loans you can't pay off. On fact, I would love to see the higher education bubble pop - it's an industry based entirely on selling degrees for "free money" issued via government-backed loans, which is a never-ending cycle of increasing the cost of tuition. Loans did this, universities did this, previous administrations enabled this.
> 
> As for the "who", pretty much everyone benefits from Trump's aggressive domestic tax policy, especially if they have savings in stocks or a 401K - increasingly large swathes of the population do. The tarrif war we can live without, let's drop that, it's not helping anyone.



except trumps economic plans makes most economists want to put a gun in their mouth. trump has been an unfettered economic disaster. the "great economy" he had just before covid was a shit economy with most people having to work multiple jobs(woo record high unemployment!) while the stock market was propped up by stock buy backs. if you don't care about helping people with debt, don't get angry when the housing market collapses due to garnished wages stopping people from paying their mortgage and kills the other sectors with it. this is going to make 2008 look like a cake walk.

his fucking trade war with china fucked farmers so hard that 40% of agricultural income was covered by federal aid and insurance in 2019, before covid. why should farmers get bailed out when they made their business decisions? they signed the dotted line just like the college graduates.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

omgcat said:


> except trumps economic plans makes most economists want to put a gun in their mouth. trump has been an unfettered economic disaster. the "great economy" he had just before covid was a shit economy with most people having to work multiple jobs(woo record high unemployment!) while the stock market was propped up by stock buy backs. if you don't care about helping people with debt, don't get angry when the housing market collapses due to garnished wages stopping people from paying their mortgage and kills the other sectors with it. this is going to make 2008 look like a cake walk.


You meant to say "record low unemployment" (50-year low, in fact), at least until lockdowns decimated small businesses and forced many Americans out of work. You have individual states to blame for that, not the economic policy of the administration.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49934309

As for the stock market, I'm not stoked by buybacks, I am stoked by the small-time trader, aka "Robinhood" boom - it's very exciting to see more and more people participating in the marketplace, it's disruptive, in a good way.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/07/how-robinhood-and-covid-introduced-millions-to-the-stock-market.html



> why should farmers get bailed out when they made their business decisions? they signed the dotted line just like the college graduates


I agree, let them go bust. I've been against farm subsidies all my life. I don't have to be a fan of *everything* he does - I don't like subsidies, I'm not a fan of the trade war. I'm a free market guy.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not interested in paying off other people's debts.


It's not a matter of individual preference, we never get to pick and choose where our tax dollars are spent anyway.  Either it gets paid off sooner for a lower cost, or we end up having to pay for it later with interest added in, and after the bubble has already caused maximum damage.  If it's more palatable to you, just think of it as another big bank bailout for a fraction of the cost.  "Too big to fail" and all that.



Foxi4 said:


> Their names are on the dotted lines, they're the ones who got themselves into crippling debt and it's their problem - don't take out loans you can't pay off.


Honestly I'd be fine with this line of thinking if it was applied evenly across the board to all individuals and corporations, but we all know this isn't the case in America.  If you're rich, or even if you were rich at some point in the past, you probably have hundreds of millions of dollars of credit to play with.  Then when the bill comes due you can simply refuse to pay it, and face no consequences whatsoever, as Trump did with Deutche Bank.

Meanwhile, for other individuals who can't pay a $50 fine, we still have what amounts to debtors prisons in many parts of the country.



Foxi4 said:


> As for the "who", pretty much everyone benefits from Trump's aggressive domestic tax policy, especially if they have savings in stocks or a 401K - increasingly large swathes of the population do.


A lot of Americans own stock, but maybe 1-2% actually make a living buying and trading stocks.  The solution to a recession and/or economic recovery following the pandemic is nowhere to be found on Wall Street.  The stock market also seems to prefer Biden to Trump regardless.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 5, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Trump is fucking insane if he thinks it's a good idea to come here. For one the Scottish people despise him for all the shady business deals he does here with his hotel and golf course and other numerous businesses he has in Scotland . Secondly the Scottish government have said several times that as soon as he in no longer president they are going to charge him for his various law breaking business deals he has committed in Scotland. Thirdly he won't be allowed in the country anyway as we are in a full lockdown where nobody is allowed in or out of the country and it is currently illegal for us to leave our homes unless to exercise ect.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-scotland-police-increase-patrols-lockdown-restrictions-become-law-3085090?amp


*Scotland's Leader Says Trump Wouldn't Be Allowed To Visit Under Pandemic Rule*
Now where will Trump find Asylm?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 5, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *Scotland's Leader Says Trump Wouldn't Be Allowed To Visit Under Pandemic Rule*
> Now where will Trump find Asylm?


Best decision she has ever made


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Best decision she has ever made



To be fair it's nothing personal, they aren't letting anyone in.

All parts of the UK have pretty much gone back to March 2020 for another lock down.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> To be fair it's nothing personal, they aren't letting anyone in.
> 
> All parts of the UK have pretty much gone back to March 2020 for another lock down.


Yup. Tier 4 in my area, everything non-essential is shut. Bit of a bummer as I was planning to visit family, but what can you do - it is what it is.


----------



## smf (Jan 5, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Tier 4 in my area



lockdown overrides tier 4. 

https://www.gov.scot/news/scotland-in-lockdown/
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home
https://gov.wales/coronavirus
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/article...gulations-guidance-what-restrictions-mean-you


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## Foxi4 (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> lockdown overrides tier 4.
> 
> https://www.gov.scot/news/scotland-in-lockdown/
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home
> ...


Good to know, I was just agreeing with you - there's not much to do around here right now besides wait.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 5, 2021)

smf said:


> To be fair it's nothing personal, they aren't letting anyone in.
> 
> All parts of the UK have pretty much gone back to March 2020 for another lock down.


True but I bet you BoJo would let his old friend Trump into England if he decided to go there.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Yup. Tier 4 in my area, everything non-essential is shut. Bit of a bummer as I was planning to visit family, but what can you do - it is what it is.


You were "planning to visit family" why can't you just listen to the rules set out in your area, Stay home!
Your part of the reason this pandemic keeps spreading! Wear a mask, social distance and stay home unless it's absolutely essential.
Joe Biden winning and become the president is the best thing that could have happened to the US as he will do more then Trump to try to fix this pandemic. Just watch and you will see.

Source: https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/temporary-limitations


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> You were "planning to visit family" why can't you just listen to the rules set out in your area, Stay home!



That is literally what he said.

_Bit of a bummer as I was planning to visit family, but what can you do - it is what it is.
_
He was planning to visit family before the rules were changed and now he isn't.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> You were "planning to visit family" why can't you just listen to the rules set out in your area, Stay home!
> Your part of the reason this pandemic keeps spreading! Wear a mask, social distance and stay home unless it's absolutely essential.
> Joe Biden winning and become the president is the best thing that could have happened to the US as he will do more then Trump to try to fix this pandemic. Just watch and you will see.
> 
> Source: https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/temporary-limitations


I'm not going to put my life on-hold because of a virus - when I have important business to attend to, I do just that.  What I am going to do is take necessary and reasonable precautions. I do wear my mask, and I assure you it's better than yours - I have a hefty supply of KN95's instead of the cloth rags most people wear, and my hygiene standards are high, pandemic or no pandemic. Nobody in my family is sick, they're highly unlikely to get sick, and were it not for the pandemic halting international flights I absolutely would go see them. Sadly, the current rates of spread are too high, so I had to postpone those plans until the situation normalises and travel is considered "safe" again. I don't know why you're getting your panties in a bunch - I'm not breaking any lockdown rules.


smf said:


> That is literally what he said.
> 
> _Bit of a bummer as I was planning to visit family, but what can you do - it is what it is.
> _
> He was planning to visit family before the rules were changed and now he isn't.


Thank you. Reading comprehension is rare in these parts.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Looking good in Georgia at the moment, seems like Trump may have done a decent job of suppressing his own voter turnout with talk of a "rigged" election.  Turnout in a number of red counties is down ten to twenty percent from last November.


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 6, 2021)

Well, anyway, tomorrow is gonna be a shitshow, The biggest shitshow since that 1800 election, and then they are gonna verify the votes and official declare biden the winner. Apparently None of the senators have actively said anything about them objecting with the votes. Makes sense however, as the senate is usually less far in their political background then the house, With the house having most of the far right people most of us want gone. Either way, the house has a majority demo, so unless god wants us to perish and die, biden is gonna win.




Xzi said:


> Looking good in Georgia at the moment, seems like Trump may have done a decent job of suppressing his own voter turnout with talk of a "rigged" election.  Turnout in a number of red counties is down ten to twenty percent from last November.


Yeah, basically trump doomed the republican party, with most of the people either being with pro Facist trump, or they are being good and listening to their principles. It created a split that's a win win for demos and socialist, because not only is trump gone, but the republican party is weakened.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 6, 2021)

What's Trump's next move gonna be after this? 

*Mike Pence ‘has told Trump he cannot overturn election result’*
*Joint session of Congress set to ratify Joe Biden victory*

*https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...trump-election-result-biden-b1782957.html?amp*


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> What's Trump's next move gonna be after this?
> 
> *Mike Pence ‘has told Trump he cannot overturn election result’*
> *Joint session of Congress set to ratify Joe Biden victory*
> ...


Pence's role is literally just ceremonial.  He has no say in the process or power over it.  Of course, Trump and all of his sycophants would've already known this if they had bothered to read the constitution even once in their miserable lives.


----------



## leon315 (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *Scotland's Leader Says Trump Wouldn't Be Allowed To Visit Under Pandemic Rule*
> Now where will Trump find Asylm?


CHINA?? LMFAO that would be funny, since US's enemy is friend, oh wait CANADA still holding HUAWEI's CFO as hostage.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Pence's role is literally just ceremonial.  He has no say in the process or power over it.  Of course, Trump and all of his sycophants would've already known this if they had bothered to read the constitution even once in their miserable lives.


You are assuming Trump is smart enough to read. I have yet to see any evidence to back this assumption up


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Looking good in Georgia at the moment, seems like Trump may have done a decent job of suppressing his own voter turnout with talk of a "rigged" election.  Turnout in a number of red counties is down ten to twenty percent from last November.


"Votes don't matter! It's all rigged!"
A month or so later:
"Why aren't they voting?!"
Irony's a bitch. 



AmandaRose said:


> You are assuming Trump is smart enough to read. I have yet to see any evidence to back this assumption up


He's had actual serious trouble reading the constitution, I think the answer is a strong maybe.
(But doubtless some site somewhere is blathering out the rear about his absolutely impeccable reading skills, providing a small fragment of positive press covfefe for him to latch on to.)


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not going to put my life on-hold because of a virus - when I have important business to attend to, I do just that.  What I am going to do is take necessary and reasonable precautions. I do wear my mask, and I assure you it's better than yours - I have a hefty supply of KN95's instead of the cloth rags most people wear, and my hygiene standards are high, pandemic or no pandemic. Nobody in my family is sick, they're highly unlikely to get sick, and were it not for the pandemic halting international flights I absolutely would go see them. Sadly, the current rates of spread are too high, so I had to postpone those plans until the situation normalises and travel is considered "safe" again. I don't know why you're getting your panties in a bunch - I'm not breaking any lockdown rules.
> Thank you. Reading comprehension is rare in these parts.



Your KN95 masks are a real joke. A KN95 mask is a FAKE N95 mask that isn't close to a real N95 mask... Have a read here and look at the spec sheet differences in the table.

Source: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/

Please stop assuming that you are better then everyone else. I'm in the category of essential workers and for that reason I wear an actual proper mask that protects me from 99.99% of particles. But that doesn't make me better then you, it just makes me better protected in the environment that I work in. So please stop trying to lower other people just to bring yourself up. By the way... Those "rags" that you talk about were implemented by YOUR government as well!

Joe Biden will most definitely increase the standards of necessary protection when he becomes president... Just watch.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

It looks likely now that both of Georgia's Senate races are going Democratic, giving Joe Biden a Democratic House and Senate to work with.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 6, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Your KN95 masks are a real joke. A KN95 mask is a FAKE N95 mask that isn't close to a real N95 mask... Have a read here and look at the spec sheet differences in the table.
> 
> Source: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/




Lol read your link.  You contradict what it says and are essentially making BS claims.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Looking good in Georgia at the moment, seems like Trump may have done a decent job of suppressing his own voter turnout with talk of a "rigged" election.  Turnout in a number of red counties is down ten to twenty percent from last November.


The irony of this, if the Democrats win. I don't think they would have won otherwise.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Lol read your link.  You contradict what it says and are essentially making BS claims.


... I think your in the wrong thread


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


>




Liz Wheeler. From One America News Network. That's all that needs to be said. 

Edit. I guess this can be said:

"One America News Network (OANN), also known as One America News (OAN), is a far-right, pro–Donald Trump cable channel founded by Robert Herring Sr. and owned by Herring Networks, Inc., launched on July 4, 2013. The network is headquartered in San Diego, California, and operates news bureaus in Washington, D.C., and New York City.

Its prime time political talk shows have a conservative perspective, and the channel has described itself as one of the "greatest supporters" of Trump. Trump himself has promoted both the network and some of its hosts.

The channel is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories. On November 24, 2020, YouTube suspended and demonetized OANN's channel for one week as a first strike under its three-strike community guideline violation policy, for falsely claiming the existence of a cure for COVID-19."


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

lol its a nail bitter

but the look at the whole picture... TRUMP lost in a DEEP ASS south state ... that is just a pure rebuke of every lie Trump spew in the last 2 months.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

*GOP Georgia election official: Blame Trump if Perdue or Loeffler lose*


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> View attachment 240702
> lol its a nail bitter


Eh I'd say there's not much to worry about, Ossoff needs only 51% of the remaining vote to win.

Here's what's left in the Ossoff race, according to our estimates pic.twitter.com/6eXTad9Zhk— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) January 6, 2021


He may not clear the 0.5% margin of victory necessary to avoid a recount, but whatever.  It'll be official within a couple of days: Dems control the Senate.  This also means Bernie Sanders will be the new chairman of the Senate Budget Committee.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 6, 2021)

The Perdue/Ossoff race has me thinking - wouldn't it be kind of funny if Ossoff loses within the 0.5% margin threshold to ask for a recount, and starts screaming about how this loss must have been fraudulent, since that's what the Republicans have been screaming about for months?


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

Well, most, if not all, recounts this election actually went in Biden favor.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 6, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Well, most, if not all, recounts this election actually went in Biden favor.


Were they done by hand?


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Were they done by hand?


Yes, they were.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 6, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Yes, they were.


Did any buildings shut down at any point due to some emergency (a pipe bursting, for example)?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Did any buildings shut down at any point due to some emergency (a pipe bursting, for example)?


sounds like someone needs his preparation H


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 6, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Lol read your link.  You contradict what it says and are essentially making BS claims.



Up to you if you want to trust a KN95. .. here's the quote from the link

"In short, N95 masks are the US standards for respirator masks; KN95 masks are the *Chinese* standards for masks."

I don't like "the Chinese standard" for anything thanks.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Did any buildings shut down at any point due to some emergency (a pipe bursting, for example)?


It's kind of sad how hard you are trying to find any means of spinning this. Have you considered that maybe Trump just lost?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 6, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Up to you if you want to trust a KN95. .. here's the quote from the link
> 
> "In short, N95 masks are the US standards for respirator masks; KN95 masks are the *Chinese* standards for masks."
> 
> I don't like "the Chinese standard" for anything thanks.



And then the following text shows how the Chinese standards include more testing, lol, which is why KN95 has more information provided in the chart.  But yeah, you should probably buy American whenever you can anyway.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

Ossoff is leading.


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 6, 2021)




----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Ossoff is leading.


Based on where the remaining votes are going to come in from, his lead is only going to keep growing from here on out.  At least one decision desk has already projected him the winner, along with Dave Wasserman, one of NBC's top statisticians.  CNN said it's virtually impossible for Purdue to win now, but that they're waiting until morning to make the call.

It's all over but the crying for Rs (as if they didn't already have a head start on that).  In only four years, Republicans went from controlling all three branches of the federal government, to controlling none of them.  I guess Trump did manage to drain the swamp after all.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Based on where the remaining votes are going to come in from, his lead is only going to keep growing from here on out.  At least one decision desk has already projected him the winner, along with Dave Wasserman, one of NBC's top statisticians.  CNN said it's virtually impossible for Purdue to win now, but that they're waiting until morning to make the call.
> 
> It's all over but the crying for Rs (as if they didn't already have a head start on that).  In only four years, Republicans went from controlling all three branches of the federal government, to controlling none of them.  I guess Trump did manage to drain the swamp after all.


still be unwise to call it a win. Would suck to get our hopes up and then find out that one or both go to the gop.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

oh...
never mind actually, doesn't look too bad. I am a moron.
still going to be cautious about it


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2021)

Every time I check on the United States' political issues online, and it's represented by colours, it takes me a second or two to get my bearings.

Everywhere else in the World, Red which represents the Blood of the People is for Left Wing and Blue which represents Royalty and the Establishment is for the Right.

As such, for those two seconds that I'm adjusting, what a surprise.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 6, 2021)

Dems win the Senate.

Cope.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Your KN95 masks are a real joke. A KN95 mask is a FAKE N95 mask that isn't close to a real N95 mask... Have a read here and look at the spec sheet differences in the table.
> 
> Source: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/
> 
> ...


This is untrue, as pointed out by... Well, yourself. KN95 is a Chinese standard equivalent of N95, they both filter 95% of particulate (down to 0.3 micron), block pretty much all droplets (down to 0.1%) and are FDA-approved. The certification process is slightly different as the KN95 process requires a fit test whereas N95 does not. I very much doubt your employer provides you with anything better than that considering there *isn't* anything better than that short of a hazardous materials mask, and I'm not going to wear giant filters on my face on the day-to-day, not to mention that it's completely unnecessary. Still, good to hear that your employer cares about your safety and provides you with PPE.

Nice try.

In any case, it appears that Raphael Warnock has secured the win in GA, which blows my mind given his past conduct:




 
Dark days ahead indeed.


----------



## g00s3y (Jan 6, 2021)

BOTH DEMOCRATS WIN IN GA!!!!
TRUMP SUPPORTERS & NAZI LOVERS FLAMING MAD ON PARLER!!!
FUCK YOUR FEELINGS!!!
DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE THE COUNTRY!!!


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> This is untrue, as pointed out by... Well, yourself. KN95 is a Chinese standard equivalent of N95, they both filter 95% of particulate (down to 0.3 micron) and are FDA-approved. The certification process is slightly different as the KN95 process requires a fit test whereas N95 does not. I very much doubt your employer provides you with anything better than that considering there *isn't* anything better than that short of a hazardous materials mask, and I'm not going to wear giant filters on my face on the day-to-day, not to mention that it's completely unnecessary. Still, good to hear that your employer cares about your safety and provides you with PPE.
> 
> Nice try.


There has been numerous studies done that say about 70% of KN95 masks are not as good as the N95 masks. And it's actually the  National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health that regulates masks in America not the FDA and they have said the KN95 masks are not filtering 95% of particulates.

Look at this for instance

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...asks#Healthcare-professionals-at-highest-risk


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> There has been numerous studies done that say about 70% of KN95 masks are not as good as the N95 masks. And it's actually the  National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health that regulates masks in America not the FDA and they have said the Kn95 masks are not filtering 95% of particulates.
> 
> Look at this for instance
> 
> https://www.healthline.com/health-n...asks#Healthcare-professionals-at-highest-risk


That's great, but it's also a link from healthline lol. There are a lot of counterfeit ones available on the market with inconsistent markings (easy to spot) which skews the results, but I'm not particularly worried about "my batch" as it's from an official PPE supplier. I'm perfectly confident that KN95 has better filtration qualities than a piece of cloth with Bart Simpson on it. As far as authorisation for use, it's up to the FDA, NIOSH performs the testing. All from your own link, mind.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Based on where the remaining votes are going to come in from, his lead is only going to keep growing from here on out.  At least one decision desk has already projected him the winner, along with Dave Wasserman, one of NBC's top statisticians.  CNN said it's virtually impossible for Purdue to win now, but that they're waiting until morning to make the call.
> 
> It's all over but the crying for Rs (as if they didn't already have a head start on that).  In only four years, Republicans went from controlling all three branches of the federal government, to controlling none of them.  I guess Trump did manage to drain the swamp after all.


He did do one good thing for our country, I suppose.
He removed his own party from power.
We're blue, da-ba-dee da-ba-da!


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Dark days ahead indeed.


This probably isn't how you should describe Georgia's first Black senator and the first Black Democrat to represent a southern state in the Senate.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> This probably isn't how you should describe Georgia's first Black senator and the first Black Democrat to represent a southern state in the Senate.


I'm not a fan of Warnock, or domestic abusers in general. I also don't like his flirtation with Louis Farrakhan, head of the Nation of Islam, and well-known bigot. I don't like people who get arrested for obstructing a child abuse investigation that occurred on their camp. I also don't like anti-semitism. So yes, dark days ahead indeed. As a side note, I don't see what skin colour has to do with the election - either a candidate is qualified and of good moral character or not. Warnock is neither in my book. Voting on the basis of colour smells of racism to me - he could be purple for all I care, that wouldn't make him a better candidate.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not a fan of Warnock, or domestic abusers in general. I also don't like his flirtation with Louis Farrakhan, head of the Nation of Islam, and well-known bigot. I don't like people who get arrested for obstructing a child abuse investigation that occurred on their camp. I also don't like anti-semitism. So yes, dark days ahead indeed.


Warnock: possibly bad.
Progress: good.
Eh, still a net positive in my book.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Warnock: possibly bad.
> Progress: good.
> Eh, still a net positive in my book.


Warnock puts the state on the path of regression, not progress, but suit yourself. As far as I'm concerned, he should be as far away form the Senate as humanly possible - him and his rhetoric.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not a fan of Warnock, or domestic abusers in general. I also don't like his flirtation with Louis Farrakhan, head of the Nation of Islam, and well-known bigot. I don't like people who get arrested for obstructing a child abuse investigation that occurred on their camp. I also don't like anti-semitism. So yes, dark days ahead indeed.


There's no evidence of domestic abuse, Warnock didn't do more than acknowledge the history behind the Nation of Islam, and Warnock was only asserting that people's constitutional rights were respected when he was arrested (and he was never charged of anything).

Regardless of how you feel about the above items, your wording was, at best, tone deaf.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> Warnock puts the state on the path of regression, not progress, but suit yourself. As far as I'm concerned, he should be as far away form the Senate as humanly possible - him and his rhetoric.


Warnock's policies are, by definition, progressive, not regressive.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There's no evidence of domestic abuse, Warnock didn't do more than acknowledge the history behind the Nation of Islam, and Warnock was only asserting that people's constitutional rights were respected when he was arrested (and he was never charged of anything).
> 
> Regardless of how you feel about the above items, your wording was, at best, tone deaf.
> 
> Warnock's policies are, by definition, progressive, not regressive.


What's done is done, I'm not complaining about the process. I believe Warnock's wife on the police tapes more than I believe Warnock, I also believe the victims more than Warnock's campaign dismissing his attempt at saving his skin as a gesture of good will - "good" according to him only, not to the authorities that thought otherwise. If you're okay with him singing praises for the anti-semite-in-chief, that's fine - I find that highly unsavoury. His policies advocate progressing backwards, to 1922, which I call regressive. Each to their own though, the people have spoken, I have no problem with that.

To add some levity to the conversation I will say that Warnock at least had some experience in this race, as this is the second time he beats a woman. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-good-actor-putting-win-Senate-seat.html


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> if you're okay with him singing praises for the anti-semite-in-chief


.... well I guess hearing dog whistles for the last 4 years has desensitized Americans


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> What's done is done, I'm not complaining about the process. I believe Warnock's wife on the police tapes more than I believe Warnock, I also believe the victims more so that Warnock's campaign dismissing his attempt at saving his skin as a gesture of good will - to him only, not to the authorities that thought otherwise. If you're okay with him singing praises for the anti-semite-in-chief, that's fine - I find that highly unsavoury. His policies advocate progressing backwards, to 1922, which I call regressive. Each to their own though, the people have spoken, I have no problem with that.


First, all you're doing is deflecting from my claim that your "dark days" statement was, at best, tone deaf. How you feel about the above is irrelevant.

A medical examination was done on the wife, and there was no evidence of foot injury, if that's what you're referencing.

During the investigation you keep referencing, he was asserting that people be allowed to have an attorney present during the interviews, and he pushed back when that constitutional right was being violated. He was arrested but never charged with anything. Aside from his insistence that lawyers be allowed to be present, as is the constitutional right of every American (which I thought you'd support), Warnock was fully cooperative, officers said the arrest was part of a misunderstanding, and the officers later said Warnock had been helpful and thanked him.

There is no evidence that Warnock is anti-semetic.

Warnock's policy positions are a matter of public record, and they are objectively and by definition progressive, not regressive.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> What's done is done, I'm not complaining about the process. I believe Warnock's wife on the police tapes more than I believe Warnock, I also believe the victims more than Warnock's campaign dismissing his attempt at saving his skin as a gesture of good will - "good" according to him only, not to the authorities that thought otherwise. If you're okay with him singing praises for the anti-semite-in-chief, that's fine - I find that highly unsavoury. His policies advocate progressing backwards, to 1922, which I call regressive. Each to their own though, the people have spoken, I have no problem with that.
> 
> To add some levity to the conversation I will say that Warnock at least had some experience in this race, as this is the second time he beats a woman.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-good-actor-putting-win-Senate-seat.html


We may not agree, but that last line was hilarious.
But if you want bigotry, abuse and general sexism, look no further than soon-to-be-ex-President Donald "grab 'em by the [censored]" Trump!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> First, all you're doing is deflecting from my claim that your "dark days" statement was, at best, tone deaf. How you feel about the above is irrelevant.
> 
> A medical examination was done on the wife, and there was no evidence of foot injury, if that's what you're referencing.
> 
> ...


I don't really care about whether or not he drove over her foot - I would even dismiss that if he did as anything can happen in the heat of the moment. The allegation was that he was beating his wife throughout their marriage. I thought we believed all women, but it seems we only believe women who aren't married to a candidate for office. As for the dark days statement, not only is it a fixed phrase, I was also paraphrasing Joe Biden himself saying that a "dark winter" was coming our way. If you're going to twist this into some kind of racist statement, just say the accusation out loud so we can all laugh, don't keep it to yourself.


Plasmaster09 said:


> We may not agree, but that last line was hilarious.
> But if you want bigotry, abuse and general sexism, look no further than soon-to-be-ex-President Donald "grab 'em by the [censored]" Trump!


Beating women is completely equivalent to boys talk, you got me there. Also thank you - I'll be here indefinitely with more funny jokes, wonderful audience!


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> What's done is done, I'm not complaining about the process. I believe Warnock's wife on the police tapes more than I believe Warnock, I also believe the victims more than Warnock's campaign dismissing his attempt at saving his skin as a gesture of good will - "good" according to him only, not to the authorities that thought otherwise. If you're okay with him singing praises for the anti-semite-in-chief, that's fine - I find that highly unsavoury. His policies advocate progressing backwards, to 1922, which I call regressive. Each to their own though, the people have spoken, I have no problem with that.
> 
> To add some levity to the conversation I will say that Warnock at least had some experience in this race, as this is the second time he beats a woman.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-good-actor-putting-win-Senate-seat.html


Nothing says levity like joking about wife abuse. I guess it's all fun and games until a conservative needs to feign indignance about someone they disagree with politically.

There is also evidence he did not run over her foot, as there was a medical examination that showed no signs of the foot having been run over.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Beating women is completely equivalent to boys talk, you got me there. Also thank you - I'll be here indefinitely with more funny jokes, wonderful audience!


...that and the numerous sexual assault allegations against him?
Trump's racked up quite a record of things he's somehow not been brought to court for yet.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't really care about whether or not he drove over her foot - I would even dismiss that if he did as anything can happen in the heat of the moment. The allegation was that he was beating his wife throughout their marriage. As for the dark days statement, not only is it a fixed phrase, I was also paraphrasing Joe Biden himself saying that a "dark winter" was coming our way. If you're going to twist this into some kind of racist statement, just say the accusation out loud so we can all laugh, don't keep it to yourself.
> Beating women is completely equivalent to boys talk, you got me there. Also thank you - I'll be here indefinitely with more funny jokes, wonderful audience!


There is no evidence he beat his wife, and we have evidence the wife lied about the foot.

Joe Biden referred to the dark winter that was  COVID-19, not anything related to race. This is why I stopped responding to your messages long ago. You arguments are blatantly dishonest and often irrelevant.

I gave you the benefit for the doubt and said your words were, at best, tone deaf. I never hid my accusations. You need to grow up.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> ...that and the numerous sexual assault allegations against him?
> Trump's racked up quite a record of things he's somehow not been brought to court for yet.


All of which were highly improbable and very likely attempts at squeezing some dolla dolla out of him, but that's a fair point.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> All of which were highly improbable and very likely attempts at squeezing some dolla dolla out of him, but that's a fair point.


"When a Democrat is accused, it's probably real. When a Republican is accused, it's probably not real."


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence he beat his wife, and we have evidence the wife lied about the foot.
> 
> Joe Biden referred to the dark winter that was  COVID-19, not anything related to race. This is why I stopped responding to your messages long ago. You arguments are blatantly dishonest and often irrelevant.
> 
> I gave you the benefit for the doubt and said your words were, at best, tone deaf. I never hid my accusations. You need to grow up.


You, on the other hand, need to lighten up a bit. If I can face the Republic plunging into darkness, so can you. Dark thoughts can always be disspeled with some light-hearted humour. There's no point in seeing everything as black and white.


Lacius said:


> "When a Democrat is accused, it's probably real. When a Republican is accused, it's probably not real."


If you guys could play this game with Warnock and Biden then I can play it with Trump, what's the issue?  There was zero evidence in the Kavanaugh case too, and the Democrats pulled him across town like Hector pretending that he was a serial rapist. You don't have a moral highground here.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> You, on the other hand, need to lighten up a bit. If I can face the Republic plunging into darkness, so can you. Dark thoughts can always be disspeled with some light-hearted humour. There's no point in seeing everything as black and white.
> 
> If you guys could play this game with Warnock and Biden then I can play it with Trump, what's the issue?


Your response of "You need to lighten up" does not change the fact that your post was, at best, tone deaf. If you would actually put on your listening ears, you might learn something for once. Here's another: Refusal to even consider your words might have been tone deaf is potentially an act of racism. You're telling the world you don't care how others feel about your words, regardless of your intended meaning.

There you go being dishonest again, because I never argued that Trump committed sexual assault. Respectfully, you can fuck off now.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If you guys could play this game with Warnock and Biden then I can play it with Trump, what's the issue?  There was zero evidence in the Kavanaugh case too, and the Democrats pulled him across town like Hector pretending that he was a serial rapist. You don't have a moral high ground here.


Warnock and Biden haven't made horrifically sexist comments amounting to viewing most if not all women as sex objects on record. Trump has. (And though it's not necessarily related, he's also made some pretty skeevy comments about how he'd date his daughter if she wasn't his daughter, and it takes nearly all of my willpower to not joke about that being part of why he won Alabama.)


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Your response of "You need to lighten up" does not change the fact that your post was, at best, tone deaf. If you would actually put on your listening ears, you might learn something for once. Here's another: Refusal to even consider your words might have been tone deaf is potentially an act of racism. You're telling the world you don't care how others feel about your words, regardless of your intended meaning.
> 
> There you go being dishonest again, because I never argued that Trump committed sexual assault. Respectfully, you can fuck off now.


That's because I don't. I don't care about how others "feel" about my words - my words have a meaning, how you feel about them is your business, not mine. I used a fixed phrase in reference to the Senate race because I believe the outcome will have negative consequences in the future and your first thought was that I *might've* said that because the candidate in question was black, but you've decided to "give me the benefit of the doubt". That is the most racist, race-fixated, tone deaf, overly sensitive and ridiculous thing you could've ever said in this instance. I don't need your benefit of the doubt because anyone over the age of 5 knows that I wasn't talking about Warnock being black and I don't need an excuse for using a phrase with a well-understood meaning just because someone might be more sensitive than a baby's bottom. This is why you actually "stopped responding to me" - because every time you did you got blown out, and exposed as morally and intellectually bankrupt. Your attempt at a racial gotcha is hillariously poor, when I first read it I almost blacked out.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 6, 2021)

It's "weird" for people who see no evidence of voter fraud, to see past the evidence and divine directly into Trump's intentions, and true facts about "she's always right" when accusing a republican of some sexual indecency or domestic abuse right at the specific time they are about to take on a higher office.

A situation of abuse shouldn't be held from being reported on *until when the publicity of it is a potential all-time-high.  IMO that's discrediting.



Lacius said:


> Your response of "You need to lighten up" does not change the fact that your post was, at best, tone deaf. If you would actually put on your listening ears, you might learn something for once. Here's another: Refusal to even consider your words might have been tone deaf is potentially an act of racism. You're telling the world you don't care how others feel about your words, regardless of your intended meaning.
> 
> There you go being dishonest again, because I never argued that Trump committed sexual assault. Respectfully, you can fuck off now.



Grow up and stop being petulant.   He pretty much spelled out what he meant when he said "tone deaf", in response to your protest.  Why further press the point?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That's because I don't. I don't care about how others "feel" about my words - my words have a meaning, how you feel about them is your business, not mine. I used a fixed phrase in reference to the Senate race because I believe the outcome will have negative consequences in the future and your first thought was that I said that because the candidate in question was black. That is the most racist, race-fixated, tone deaf and ridiculous thing you could've ever said in this instance. I don't need your benefit of the doubt because anyone over the age of 5 knows that I wasn't talking about Warnock being black and I don't need an excuse for using a phrase with a well-understood meaning just because someone might be more sensitive than a baby's bottom. This is why you actually "stopped responding to me" - because every time you did you got blown out, and exposed as morally and intellectually bankrupt. Your attempt at a racial gotcha is hillariously poor, when I first read it I almost blacked out.


If you had actually read *any* of my posts, you would know that I didn't think your intention was to address Warnock's race. What an embarassing waste of a post by you.

Also, that's rich that you called me tone-deaf. Talk about an "I know you are, but what am I?" response. I've explained how your comment was tone deaf, but as you've admitted, you don't care if it was, so you're not exactly someone who can argue if it was or wasn't.

I stopped responding to you because you're intellectually dishonest. You tried saying your tone deaf remarks were fine because Biden, a guy I voted for, used the same words, but nothing he said had anything to do with Black people. You argued it was okay for you to hypocritically say Republicans were probably not guilty of abuse claims but Democrats were probably guilty of abuse claims because I did the same thing, but I never so much as suggested Trump was guilty of abuse claims (side note edit: defending your hypocrisy by point out someone else's doesn't actually defend your hypocrisy). These are only recent examples, and any objective reader can see these comments are, at best, dishonest, and at worst, desperate.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> It's "weird" for people who see no evidence of voter fraud, to see past the evidence and divine directly into Trump's intentions, and true facts about "she's always right" when accusing a republican of some sexual indecency or domestic abuse right at the specific time they are about to take on a higher office.
> 
> A situation of abuse shouldn't be held from being reported on *until when the publicity of it is a potential all-time-high.  IMO that's discrediting.
> 
> ...


He won't even admit his comment was tone deaf, when it was. Worse, he said he doesn't care if it was, and he doesn't care how others feel in response to his words. That goes beyond tone deaf. It sounds like someone taking pride in being inflammatory. It's what a troll would say.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If you had actually read *any* of my posts, you would know that I didn't think your intention was to address Warnock's race. What an embarassing waste of a post by you.
> 
> Also, that's rich that you called me tone-deaf. Talk about an "I know you are, but what am I?" response.
> 
> I stopped responding to you because you're intellectually dishonest. You tried saying your tone deaf remarks were fine because Biden, a guy I voted for, use the same words, but nothing he said had anything to do with Black people. You argued it was okay for you to hypocritically say Republicans were probably not guilty of abuse claims but Democrats were probably guilty of abuse claims because I did the same thing, but I never so much as suggested Trump was guilty of abuse claims. These are only recent examples, and any objective reader can see these comments are, at best, dishonest, and at worst, desperate.


So let me get this straight - I wasn't talking about black people... and Biden wasn't talking about black people... we were both talking about a difficult period ahead of us... and the statements are perfectly equivalent, as I stated earlier... Huh.

I wasn't talking specifically about you, I was taking about the Democratic party and its supporters, both of whom are perfectly happy to blow up allegations against Republicans while sweeping allegations against Democrats under the rug. Not once did I say that *you specifically*made any allegations against Trump, I said "You guys", the royal you, I don't see how that's dishonest in any way unless we choose to ignore news coverage from the last 4 years entirely. I also sarcastically suggested that if your side, aka "the left side of the aisle" can engage in selective memory then so can my side, aka "the right side". I don't think you picked up on the humour of it, which is fine.

I don't make statements that directly reference what *you* said X years in the past, you're not that important in my life. I hope that clears things up for you - I don't want to argue, I'd rather clear the dark skies before a storm brews. No offense, if you've taken any, but the fact that the thought crossed your mind at all makes me think that you might be a bit too invested in "the race thing". I'm not, which is precisely why your objection is so alien to me.


> He won't even admit his comment was tone deaf, when it was. Worse, he said he doesn't care if it was, and he doesn't care how others feel in response to his words. That goes beyond tone deaf. It sounds like someone taking pride in being inflammatory. It's what a troll would say.


Thank you, that's really nice of you to say. That really starts my 2021 on the right foot.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> He won't even admit his comment was tone deaf, when it was. Worse, he said he doesn't care if it was, and he doesn't care how others feel in response to his words. That goes beyond tone deaf. It sounds like someone taking pride in being inflammatory. It's what a troll would say.



You called it "tone deaf", he said "this is what I mean", and then you said "it was still tone deaf".  I don't agree.  After he explained it, it stops being tone deaf.  Personally, I didn't see racism being implied, based on what he said prior to the "tone deaf" statement of "dark days".  If anything, the contrast suggests that he meant it in a anti-racist way.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> So let me get this straight - I wasn't talking about black people... and Biden wasn't talking about black people... we were both talking about a difficult period ahead of us... and the statements are perfectly equivalent, as I stated earlier... Huh.
> 
> I wasn't talking specifically about you, I was taking about the Democratic party and its supporters, both of whom are perfectly happy to blow up allegations against Republicans while sweeping allegations against Democrats under the rug. Not once did I say that *you specifically*made any allegations against Trump, I said "You guys", the royal you, I don't see how that's dishonest in any way unless we choose to ignore news coverage from the last 4 years entirely. I also ironically suggested that if your side, aka "the left side of the aisle" can engage in selective memory then so can my side, aka "the right side". I don't make statements that directly reference what *you* said X years in the past, you're not that important in my life. I hope that clears things up for you - I don't want to argue, I'd rather clear the dark skies before a storm brews. No offense, if you've taken any, but the fact that the thought crossed your mind at all makes me thing that you might be a bit too invested in "the race thing". I'm not, which is precisely why your objection is so alien to me.
> Thank you, that's really nice of you to say. That really starts my 2021 on the right foot.


You were talking about Warnock, who is in fact Black. That's what made it tone deaf.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> You called it "tone deaf", he said "this is what I mean", and then you said "it was still tone deaf".  I don't agree.  After he explained it, it stops being tone deaf.  Personally, I didn't see racism being implied, based on what he said prior to the "tone deaf" statement of "dark days".  If anything, the contrast suggests that he meant it in a anti-racist way.


His explanation didn't make it not tone deaf.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You were talking about Warnock, who is in fact Black.


I was talking about the future of the country, and I absolutely understand what you meant - that's why I'm ridiculing it, as it is in deservement of ridicule.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I was talking about the future of the country, and I absolutely understand what you meant - that's why I'm ridiculing it, as it is in deservement of ridicule.



the issue is use language like like "Dark" to refer a time when a black senator won, 
(other people )  
using Kamala or Stacy Abrams being a black woman as a scary tactic
claiming a black President is not a real American 
calling BLM - savages 

Speech like this is racist Code that Minorities in American deal with.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> the issue is use language like like "Dark" to refer a time when a black senator won,
> (other people )
> using Kamala or Stacy Abrams being a black woman as a scary tactic
> claiming a black President is not a real American
> ...


Posts like this make me blackpilled.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I was talking about the future of the country, and I absolutely understand what you meant - that's why I'm ridiculing it, as it is in deservement of ridicule.


You argued that the election of Georgia's first Black Senator is going to result in dark times ahead of us. I don't believe you were being racist; I never did believe that. It was, however, tone deaf. In an effort to teach you something, I said so. Instead of saying, "Hey, you're right. I see how that is tone deaf, but I was not being racist," you're instead acting like a child who is claiming that everyone else is at fault, not you. I'm a little embarrassed for you. If you want to delete your posts and mine, I wouldn't object.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> His explanation didn't make it not tone deaf.



Context should be considered in the evaluation.  This on-going free participation conversation allows for all concerns to be addressed, and the clarity he gave should clear the air.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You argued that the election of Georgia's first Black Senator is going to result in dark times ahead of us. I don't believe you were being racist; I never did believe that. It was, however, tone deaf. In an effort to teach you something, I said so. Instead of saying, "Hey, you're right. I see how that is tone deaf, but I was not being racist," you're instead acting like a child who is claiming that everyone else is at fault, not you. I'm a little embarrassed for you. If you want to delete your posts and mine, I wouldn't object.


Let's correct that statement. In an effort to police language on behalf of a metaphorical black audience you told me that a perfectly applicable term was offensive for an arbitrary reason that requires mental gymnastics to even be relevant.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You argued that the election of Georgia's first Black Senator is going to result in dark times ahead of us. I don't believe you were being racist; I never did believe that. It was, however, tone deaf. In an effort to teach you something, I said so. Instead of saying, "Hey, you're right. I see how that is tone deaf, but I was not being racist," you're instead acting like a child who is claiming that everyone else is at fault, not you. I'm a little embarrassed for you. If you want to delete your posts and mine, I wouldn't object.


... yea most my funniest post have already been taken down


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You argued that the election of Georgia's first Black Senator is going to result in dark times ahead of us. I don't believe you were being racist; I never did believe that. It was, however, tone deaf. In an effort to teach you something, I said so. Instead of saying, "Hey, you're right. I see how that is tone deaf, but I was not being racist," you're instead acting like a child who is claiming that everyone else is at fault, not you. I'm a little embarrassed for you. *If you want to delete your posts and mine, I wouldn't object*.


Nice one, sound strategy to get your own overreaction wiped - you'll have to try harder though, I'm not the average bear. I think I'll keep it, the exchange makes you look sufficiently silly to be worthy of archiving, the local pearl supplier must've been happy to sell out of stock given all the clutching that's going on.

In any case, back to the Senate race, lest we forget that it's still in progress.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Nice one, sound strategy to get your own overreaction wiped - you'll have to try harder though, I'm not the average bear. I think I'll keep it, the exchange makes you look sufficiently silly to be worthy of archiving, the local pearl supplier must've been happy to sell out of stock given all the clutching that's going on.
> 
> In any case, back to the Senate race, lest we forget that it's still running.



So then, it appears that its perfectly fine for you to troll? I've been a mod on a few sites during my time and one thing I learned it to just do my job moderating and for the most part stay out of conversations, especially political and religious conversations. Maybe think about that. Your attitude as a mod is, imo, kinda shitty. You're supposed to set the example, not act like the rest of the people.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Nice one, sound strategy to get your own overreaction wiped - you'll have to try harder though, I'm not the average bear. I think I'll keep it, the exchange makes you look sufficiently silly to be worthy of archiving, the local pearl supplier must've been happy to sell out of stock given all the clutching that's going on.
> 
> In any case, back to the Senate race, lest we forget that it's still running.


it looks tuff for Perdue.. about 95,000 votes left.. most of them are Mail in ballots and the GA SOS Brad stated they are expected 17,000 military and out of country. 
..the Temp is 145.. its cooked and ready


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> So then, it appears that its perfectly fine for you to troll? I've been a mod on a few sites during my time and one thing I learned it to just do my job moderating and for the most part stay out of conversations, especially political and religious conversations. Maybe think about that. Your attitude as a mod is, imo, kinda shitty. You're supposed to set the example, not act like the rest of the people.


The entire conversation is framed around the subject at hand, I don't see the issue. I haven't used any derogatory language, nor have I "trolled" Lacius for a response - he was happy to provide them himself. I simply defended my stance in a humorous way, as is my right. Now, back to the subject at hand, if you will.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 6, 2021)

alright we got the senate and presidency, time to harass the democrats for healthcare


----------



## wartutor (Jan 6, 2021)

How the fuck is this not equivalent to buying votes. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/bid...f-2000-stimulus-checks-immediately-2021-1?amp


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The entire conversation is framed around the subject at hand, I don't see the issue. I haven't used any derogatory language, nor have I "trolled" Lacius for a response - he was happy to provide them himself. I simply defended my stance in a humorous way, as is my right. Now, back to the subject at hand, if you will.



But if someone else uses their own sense of humor, it's trolling. You know full well what I'm talking about. Using a sarcastic, belittling, smart-assy tone is zero amount better than just outright saying what you'd really like to say. A person can use whatever words they want - but the meaning remains the same. Why is your own brand of comedy perfectly okay, but if someone else tries to be funny... it's trolling and removed. The exact wording used doesn't make one single bit of difference.

Anyway... That's all.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

wartutor said:


> How the fuck is this not equivalent to buying votes.
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/bid...f-2000-stimulus-checks-immediately-2021-1?amp


the same way this was ...
*In unprecedented move, Treasury orders Trump’s name printed on stimulus checks*


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

wartutor said:


> How the fuck is this not equivalent to buying votes.
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/bid...f-2000-stimulus-checks-immediately-2021-1?amp


Because it's not a "we'll only pay you if we win", it's a "we're pretty darn sure they'll only pay you if they have to, and that means them losing and not being able to undo it".


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I was talking about the future of the country, and I absolutely understand what you meant - that's why I'm ridiculing it, as it is in deservement of ridicule.


Again, you're being dishonest. You were talking about the future of the country in response to the election of Georgia's first Black Senator. That was tone-deaf - that's why I'm addressing it, as it is in deservement of being addressed.



tabzer said:


> Context should be considered in the evaluation.  This on-going free participation conversation allows for all concerns to be addressed, and the clarity he gave should clear the air.


Context should absolutely be considered, and that's why his statement wasn't overtly racist; it was tone-deaf.



Foxi4 said:


> Let's correct that statement. In an effort to police language on behalf of a metaphorical black audience you told me that a perfectly applicable term was offensive for an arbitrary reason that requires mental gymnastics to even be relevant.


I told you the statement was tone-deaf, and the fact that it requires "mental gymnastics" on your part to see the connection between "dark times" and the first Black Senator from Georgia is part of what makes you tone-deaf.



Foxi4 said:


> Nice one, sound strategy to get your own overreaction wiped


I would prefer that the posts don't get deleted. I was cattily offering you an out.



Foxi4 said:


> I think I'll keep it, the exchange makes you look sufficiently silly to be worthy of archiving, the local pearl supplier must've been happy to sell out of stock given all the clutching that's going on.
> 
> In any case, back to the Senate race, lest we forget that it's still running.


In order for it to be pearl-clutching, I have to actually take offense; I don't. I acknowledged it's tone-deaf. For posterity, let's summarize our posts, shall we?

You: This guy (who is Black) just won the Georgia senate seat. Dark times ahead.
Me: Considering you're saying the election of Georgia's first Black Senator is going to cause dark times, that's tone-deaf.
You: I wasn't being racist.
Me: I didn't say you were being racist. You are being tone-deaf.
You: Joe Biden used the phrase "dark times."
Me: Yeah, but he wasn't talking about Black people.
You: I wasn't talking about Black people either.
Me: Warnock is Black.
You: I still don't understand how it's tone-deaf. Everyone is at fault but me.
Me: Lack of perception is part of what it means to be tone-deaf.
You: Yeah, but I don't care how others feel about my words.
Me: That's also part of what it means to be tone-deaf.



> *tone-deaf*
> adjective
> 2: having or showing an obtuse insensitivity or lack of perception particularly in matters of public sentiment, opinion, or taste


So yeah, I'm perfectly happy with how I've conducted myself in this conversation. I hope now this conversation can end sooner rather than later.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> So yeah, I'm perfectly happy with how I've conducted myself in this conversation.


Once again, the fact that the thought even crossed your mind at all in spite of understanding full-well what was being said points to your obsession in regards to race, which should be something you should contemplate. I consider the conversation over.


D34DL1N3R said:


> But if someone else uses their own sense of humor, it's trolling. You know full well what I'm talking about. Using a sarcastic, belittling, smart-assy tone is zero amount better than just outright saying what you'd really like to say. A person can use whatever words they want - but the meaning remains the same. Why is your own brand of comedy perfectly okay, but if someone else tries to be funny... it's trolling and removed. The exact wording used doesn't make one single bit of difference.
> 
> Anyway... That's all.


I'll chalk you up as the 156th person telling me that I shouldn't participate in forum activities because of an arbitrary badge next to my name, and continue to post well-within the bounds of the rules. That is, indeed, all.


Plasmaster09 said:


> Because it's not a "we'll only pay you if we win", it's a "we're pretty darn sure they'll only pay you if they have to, and that means them losing and not being able to undo it".


That's a fair point, this loss can be attributed to McConnel more so than Trump. Once again the Republican party does what it does best - shoots its own during a hunting trip Cheney-style, except this time in the foot. This was not the right time to generate Ill will against the GOP, they totally blew it.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Once again, the fact that the thought even crossed your mind at all in spite of understanding full-well what was being said points to your obsession in regards to race, which should be something you should contemplate. I consider the conversation over.


It doesn't require an obsession with race to point out when something is racially tone-deaf. There's more of that "it's everyone's fault but mine." Telling me I'm obsessed with race also doesn't do anything to argue your statement wasn't tone-deaf.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

*Trump’s sons Donald Jr and Eric declare war on Republican party at DC election protest*
I don't think Republicans can win a national election anytime soon. because if Trumper spilt the Republicans 
theyno longer have enough of the vote..Trumper or Repubs
the Republican dam is breaking..


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *Trump’s sons Donald Jr and Eric declare war on Republican party at DC election protest*
> I don't think Republicans can win a national election anytime soon. because if Trumper spilt the Republicans
> theyno longer have enough of the vote..Trumper or Repubs
> the Republican dam is breaking..


I... wha... PHBTAHAHAHAHA!
They're so desperate to keep him in office that not only will they actively encourage basically defying our democracy itself but they'll no-true-scotsman anyone that dares disagree out of the party!
Gee, I sure don't expect THIS move to have any negative consequences whatsoever!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *Trump’s sons Donald Jr and Eric declare war on Republican party at DC election protest*
> I don't think Republicans can win a national election anytime soon. because if Trumper spilt the Republicans
> theyno longer have enough of the vote..Trumper or Repubs
> the Republican dam is breaking..


To be fair, we're seeing a similar split between the ultra progressive "squad" wing of the party and more traditional Democrats, there's a lot of coalitions in that movement as well. With that said, they seem to have the capacity to rally behind a lesser evil, Republicans have always put principles over common sense, which is their primary weakness.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, we're seeing a similar split between the ultra progressive "squad" wing of the party and more traditional Democrats, there's a lot of coalitions in that movement as well. With that said, they seem to have the capacity to rally behind a lesser evil, Republicans have always put principles over common sense, which is their primary weakness.


..not really ... The Progressives know when to shut up and when to speak out.... example: They just reelected Pelosi again... (even tho Progressives really don't like her )
but when  Mitch told the Senators not to object ..They ignored him Completely !


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> ]That's a fair point, this loss can be attributed to McConnel more so than Trump. Once again the Republican party does what it does best - shoots its own during a hunting trip Cheney-style, except this time in the foot. This was not the right time to generate Ill will against the GOP, they totally blew it.


It's like a rat in a cat costume sneaking into a place filled to the brim with cats, then suddenly revealing themselves to be a rat and threatening violence against all cats in the vicinity. They didn't shoot themselves in the foot, they shot themselves in the groin. (Pity they're so intensely against free healthcare, because that's gonna cost a lot!)


Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, we're seeing a similar split between the ultra progressive "squad" wing of the party and more traditional Democrats, there's a lot of coalitions in that movement as well. With that said, they seem to have the capacity to rally behind a lesser evil, Republicans have always put principles over common sense, which is their primary weakness.


Not to mention putting winning over principles!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Not to mention putting winning over principles!


That's the one time they should've done just that, if ever, and they immediately lost when they didn't, so yes. What I meant was that Republicans are unwilling to forge alliances if their principles do not align - that's a weakness the Democratic party doesn't seem to suffer from. The Democrats are perfectly happy living in consistent cognitive dissonance wherein Kamala Harris "believes Biden's accusers" during the race and immediately calls Biden an honourable man that she's proud to work with as VP after said race - that kind of two-faced nature allows them to forge coalitions in spite of hating each other's guts.


djpannda said:


> ..not really ... The Progressives know when to shut up and when to speak out.... example: They just reelected Pelosi again... (*even tho Progressives really don't like her *)
> but when  Mitch told the Senators not to object ..They ignored him Completely !


Prime example of the above in action.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That's the one time they should've done just that, if ever, and they immediately lost when they didn't, so yes. What I meant was that Republicans are unwilling to forge alliances if their principles do not align - that's a weakness the Democratic party doesn't seem to suffer from. The Democrats are perfectly happy living in consistent cognitive dissonance wherein Kamala Harris believes Biden's accusers during the race and immediately calls Biden an honourable man that she's proud to work with as VP after said race - that kind of two-faced nature allows them to forge coalitions in spite of hating each other's guts.


We can bond over what we do agree on, rather than vilifying people based on what we disagree on.
There may be some internal conflict, but we're more focused on trying to improve things- and before you say it, we may pile on Trump, but we actually waited until there was a decent amount of evidence rather than starting the mudslinging the instant he started campaigning.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> We can bond over what we do agree on, rather than vilifying people based on what we disagree on.
> There may be some internal conflict, but we're more focused on trying to improve things- and before you say it, we may pile on Trump, but we actually waited until there was a decent amount of evidence rather than starting the mudslinging the instant he started campaigning.


There are lessons to be learned from the Democrats in regards to party unity, for better or worse. I hope the Republicans will take those lessons in strides. They too want to improve the country, but in doing so they focus too much on the inconsequential stuff, missing the forest for the trees as a result.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

The irony of talking of qualification and of good moral character when still supporting someone like Trump.


Plasmaster09 said:


> Because it's not a "we'll only pay you if we win"


Like what Trump did with the stimulus checks. 



Foxi4 said:


> That's a fair point, this loss can be attributed to McConnel more so than Trump. Once again the Republican party does what it does best - shoots its own during a hunting trip Cheney-style, except this time in the foot. This was not the right time to generate Ill will against the GOP, they totally blew it.


I'm pretty sure it was the claiming of widespread voter fraud that did it.


Anyway, if Democrats were so unified, Trump wouldn't have won in the first place.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Anyway, if Democrats were so unified, Trump wouldn't have won in the first place.


Well, we're certainly pretty unified now. We... weren't so much back in 2016, and *boy did we learn that lesson the hard way!*


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Anyway, if Democrats were so unified, Trump wouldn't have won in the first place.


I don't see it that way. Post-Obama internal coalitions were very strong, just in the service of all the wrong things - people were tired of them after 8 years. American politics are a pendulum, and the pendulum likes to swing.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 6, 2021)

Well, doesn't this look interesting...and familiar...


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Big shocker I know, but it turns out a message of, "this election is going to be rigged and your votes won't count" doesn't resonate as well as, "we'll get you desperately-needed stimulus checks in an amount that isn't completely insulting."


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 240731
> Well, doesn't this look interesting...and familiar...


..,,,yea its the DEMS wining... (oh and votes being counted )


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 240731
> Well, doesn't this look interesting...and familiar...


Wow, counting suddenly increasing numbers, so sus~


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

that moment when people look at the vote numbers and don't bother to take into account that different methods of voting may result in votes arriving at different times and in more or less "bunches"


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> that moment when people look at the vote numbers and don't bother to take into account that different methods of voting may result in votes arriving at different times and in more or less "bunches"


Just as with the general election, it's a story told backwards in Georgia.  Early/absentee/mail-in ballots come in _first_, but the majority of them are counted _last_.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

Slight amount of people are splitting their vote? In the end, will be interesting to see the gap difference between the wins and why.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Slight amount of people are splitting their vote? In the end, will be interesting to see the gap difference between the wins and why.


There's a lot of name recognition for Perdue in Georgia, his family has held power there for quite some time.  He was also at least somewhat smarter about the things he said and did in the lead-up to the election than Kelly Loeffler was.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

The argument that only democratic protestors are violent isn't holding up too well at the moment. The protestors are literally breaching the capitol building right now, standing outside the senate chamber, and issuing bomb threats.


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 6, 2021)

These protestors are really peaceful!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2021)

Oh hey. hey. Remember how foxi4 was defending the proudboys?
Boy does hindsight suck.
If only there was someway to know that there were the modern kkk equivalent. It's not like you know, we already knew they were violent and used racist rhetoric. It really puts things in to perspective when it's advised to shutdown if the proudboys state they are going to riot.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Vanilla ISIS/Y'all Queda strikes again.  If it was BLM protestors they would've been cleared out by rubber bullets within fifteen minutes.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.”


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 6, 2021)

after this is done i hope no one objects the rest of the session


----------



## emigre (Jan 6, 2021)

This is the kind of thing, I'd expect in third world banana republic. Super fucked up.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

At the very least we'll no longer have to hear republicans say (in pseudo-good faith) "Get over it, you lost. We weren't this mad when Obama won!"

Because this bedlam blows any protest from 2016 out of the water.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's about time. The Liberals always got what they wanted because they were violent, and we weren't. It's time to return the favor.


....in about 14 days don't be surprised if the FBI wants to speak to your mother.


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 6, 2021)

These are domestic terrorists not protestors


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.”


i hope that wasn't a trump tweet issuing violence (even from the president himself) should be immediate impeachment by only one chamber


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> after this is done i hope no one objects the rest of the session


Oh they will, and just to add a cherry on top, they'll probably blame Democrats for the actions of Trump's supporters.  Republicans have no shame.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

the funny part if the coup fails.. I would not be surprised if are Treason charges.... 
The Building looks like it lax police force... would be surprised if it came from The Top...


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Can't really say it any better

George Hahn @georgehahn 3m

Replying to
@realDonaldTrump
Go fuck yourself.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 6, 2021)

new laws should be enacted that if one side is too corrupt (with proof) then impeachment can be done with only one chambers approval


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> i hope that wasn't a trump tweet issuing violence (even from the president himself) should be immediate impeachment by only one chamber


He didn't tweet that. But he did say it during the first presidential debate.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Vanilla ISIS/Y'all Queda strikes again.  If it was BLM protestors they would've been cleared out by rubber bullets within fifteen minutes.


>_Vanilla ISIS/Y'all Qaeda_
I nearly spit out my drink reading that! 
Hopefully, sooner or later, America will get its shit together and these guys will get their comeuppance.


----------



## leon315 (Jan 6, 2021)

The state of Georgia is literally on FIRE! here 's link of live coverage!
Those Trump supporters are assaulting the capitol, the Chamber of representative is evacuated. 
www.twitch.tv/woke


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 6, 2021)

wrote this myself 
Replying to
@realDonaldTrump
I hope you enjoy Prison , you cause this chaos I hope on 1/20 at 12pm I see the FBI drag you off in handcuffs on live tv


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

leon315 said:


> The state of Georgia is literally on FIRE! here 's link of live coverage!
> Those Trump supporters are assaulting the capitol, the Chamber of representative is evacuated.
> www.twitch.tv/woke



Look at all of these idiots recording their faces while committing felonies. They're gonna lose their jobs real quick.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Not to mention that they are locked within the Capitol building.


----------



## emigre (Jan 6, 2021)

I am getting sick of the description of protestors. This is terrorism.

The GOP has created a monster and this is their legacy.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

I like that the Joker is there.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm going to make a suggestion to
 the SS/FBI swear biden in at an undisclosed location as you can see today shows how risky it is to hold the ceremony


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

hey look.... its the 25 amendment ... ...I can see it!


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Are they cheering Blue Lives Matter while attacking the police? LMAO.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm a long time lurker who just had to sign up for this thread. The hypocrisy runs so deep in the lefts veins as we've seen a year of violent protestors burn, loot and murder over the fact a drug addicted criminal overdosed and died while resisting arrest. The leftist media hasn't even dared criticize the arson, murdering, looting and protesting and has called it "mostly peaceful protesting". 

Now we have the other side (Conservatives) protesting and are doing so without arson, violence or looting and somehow they are the bad guys. Nope, it doesn't work like that. The lefts double standards don't apply here and if they did all this would be is more "mostly peaceful protesting".


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I'm a long time lurker who just had to sign up for this thread. The hypocrisy runs so deep in the lefts veins as we've seen a year of violent protestors burn, loot and murder over the fact a drug addicted criminal overdosed and died while resisting arrest. The leftist media hasn't even dared criticize the arson, murdering, looting and protesting and has called it "mostly peaceful protesting".
> 
> Now we have the other side (Conservatives) protesting and are doing so without arson, violence or looting and somehow they are the bad guys. Nope, it doesn't work like that. The lefts double standards don't apply here and if they did all this would be is more "mostly peaceful protesting".


Hello welcome...
Statements like this are really not only pathetic. but show what happens when you cry wolf to garbage racist people


----------



## wonkeytonk (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I'm a long time lurker who just had to sign up for this thread. The hypocrisy runs so deep in the lefts veins as we've seen a year of violent protestors burn, loot and murder over the fact a drug addicted criminal overdosed and died while resisting arrest. The leftist media hasn't even dared criticize the arson, murdering, looting and protesting and has called it "mostly peaceful protesting".
> 
> Now we have the other side (Conservatives) protesting and are doing so without arson, violence or looting and somehow they are the bad guys. Nope, it doesn't work like that. The lefts double standards don't apply here and if they did all this would be is more "mostly peaceful protesting".


I agree. And keep in mind, this is Trump's priority:
https://archive.vn/e8DAL


----------



## emigre (Jan 6, 2021)

Who remembers when the Democrats stormed the Capitol? 

Let's cut the crap on "both sides," i


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2021)

BREAKING: Protesters are on the Senate floor now: pic.twitter.com/k4Q0ln8pZs— Frank Thorp V (@frankthorp) January 6, 2021


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The hypocrisy runs so deep in the lefts veins as we've seen a year of violent protestors burn, loot and murder over the fact a drug addicted criminal overdosed and died while resisting arrest.


"Police killing far more unarmed citizens every year than mass shooters?  Nah, not worth protesting.  My cult leader being defeated in a democratic election though?  Yeah, now it's time to get violent."


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

They sure like to chant.


----------



## linuxares (Jan 6, 2021)

I love how democracy is really dead in the USA. Coup d'etat because an orange didn't win an election...


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 6, 2021)

I mean police shoot the protesters rubber bullets not gonna stop them sometimes you must put the mad dog down


----------



## omgcat (Jan 6, 2021)

A woman and a cop have been killed so far.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Hello welcome...
> Statements like this are really not only pathetic. but show what happens when you cry wolf to garbage racist people



Thanks for the welcome!

How are my statements "pathetic" as the left simply encourages violent liberal antifa protestors to burn, loot and murder and then looks the other way while calling their actions "peaceful protesting" yet when the other side is protesting without the murdering and arson that's somehow not allowed and akin to terrorism? Can you not identify the hypocrisy and double standards going on now?

Hey, at least the Conservatives protesting has been effective. They united under a cause, picked a target and have successfully interrupted the crooked leaders in the Senate. They've affected more change in a few hours than the liberal left has done in over a year.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Thanks for the welcome!
> 
> How are my statements "pathetic" as the left simply encourages violent liberal antifa protestors to burn, loot and murder and then looks the other way while calling their actions "peaceful protesting" yet when the other side is protesting without the murdering and arson that's somehow not allowed and akin to terrorism? Can you not identify the hypocrisy and double standards going on now?
> 
> Hey, at least the Conservatives protesting has been effective. They united under a cause, picked a target and have successfully interrupted the crooked leaders in the Senate. They've affected more change more in a few hours than the liberal left has done in over a year.


This is only a group confederate garbage... This is not your Your white Racist wet Dream.. IT will be squashed and Biden will take office


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

omgcat said:


> A woman and a cop have been killed so far.



If that's true it pales in comparison to the left's body count and if you're not going to condemn the left for all of the murders in the past year then what ground do you have to stand on to condemn the other side? Don't get me wrong, murdering people is wrong, but our country was founded over the blood of dying patriots and our enemies so excuse me if I don't shed any tears.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If that's true it pales in comparison to the left's body count and if you're not going to condemn the left for all of the murders in the past year then what ground do you have to stand on to condemn the other side? Don't get me wrong, murdering people is wrong, but our country was founded over the blood of dying patriots and our enemies so excuse me if I don't shed any tears.



What fucking murders?


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> They united under a cause, picked a target and have successfully interrupted the crooked leaders in the Senate.



Where were they for the last four years getting rid of the crooked president? I am not convinced they are protesting against corruption....


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If that's true it pales in comparison to the left's body count and if you're not going to condemn the left for all of the murders in the past year then what ground do you have to stand on to condemn the other side? Don't get me wrong, murdering people is wrong, but our country was founded over the blood of dying patriots and our enemies so excuse me if I don't shed any tears.


... MOROVAN or JIMBO?


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If that's true it pales in comparison to the left's body count and if you're not going to condemn the left for all of the murders in the past year then what ground do you have to stand on to condemn the other side? Don't get me wrong, murdering people is wrong, but our country was founded over the blood of dying patriots and our enemies so excuse me if I don't shed any tears.


These are domestic terrorists not patriots


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh hey. hey. Remember how foxi4 was defending the proudboys?
> Boy does hindsight suck.
> 
> If only there was someway to know that there were the modern kkk equivalent. It's not like you know, we already knew they were violent and used racist rhetoric. It really puts things in to perspective when it's advised to shutdown if the proudboys state they are going to riot.


They haven't burned down any cities yet, from what I can tell. It appears that the protestor are rather diverse, there's lots of different groups there, from your average MAGA to fringe ones like the Black Israelites, of all people. It sure is interesting.


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If that's true it pales in comparison to the left's body count and if you're not going to condemn the left for all of the murders in the past year then what ground do you have to stand on to condemn the other side? Don't get me wrong, murdering people is wrong, but our country was founded over the blood of dying patriots and our enemies so excuse me if I don't shed any tears.



It's time to do to the States what you did to Iraq and Afganistan.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Vanilla ISIS/Y'all Queda strikes again.  If it was BLM protestors they would've been cleared out by rubber bullets within fifteen minutes.


It appears that they're being "cleaned out" with live rounds, one woman was shot in the neck, looking into the details as we speak.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

lol think sounds like Trump pissed off Pence... tick tock 25 amendment


----------



## Taleweaver (Jan 6, 2021)

Heh...in a board game forum I frequent, someone just put up a poll on the worst kinds of sore losers, from refusing to play again to table flipping up to "5. will destroy democracy". It was funny at that time.


As sad as it is, this doesn't surprise me. More so: as long as Trump is allowed to tweet to his followers, this won't stop. So the choice is really going to be whether or not to literally, physically stopping Trump from being public...or have a second civil war (even though I'm kind of wondering who aside from a retard cult is still on Trump's side at this point...even Pence isn't going to betray democracy rules for him).


What DOES surprise me, though (a lote, even), is what happens in Georgia. Did democrats really pull out two wins to (in effect) gain a majority in the senate?


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Timothy Burke on Twitter: "Cops are taking selfies with the terrorists. https://t.co/EjkQ83h1p2" / Twitter

I'm sure that once their shift ends, the majority of the cops there will be sure to join the riots.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "Police killing far more unarmed citizens every year than mass shooters?  Nah, not worth protesting.  My cult leader being defeated in a democratic election though?  Yeah, now it's time to get violent."



I don't agree with the lefts excuse to protest, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to protest. Protesting is a right, an actual real right that exists. If the left wasn't murdering, looting and burning down buildings I would state that the protesting was their right and they were allowed to do it. The thing is burning, looting and murdering isn't a right so I disagree with those actions. You seem to think that protesting is a right that's only given to the people who are protesting what you agree with and things you don't agree with can't be protested over. Well, you're wrong. The Conservatives have just as much of a right to protest as the left does.

*Snip!*



Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Timothy Burke on Twitter: "Cops are taking selfies with the terrorists. https://t.co/EjkQ83h1p2" / Twitter
> 
> I'm sure that once their shift ends, the majority of the cops there will be sure to join the riots.



If they do then that's fine. They have a right to protest. Just as much as a right as the Liberals have.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I don't agree with the lefts excuse to protest, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to protest. Protesting is a right, an actual real right that exists. If the left wasn't murdering, looting and burning down buildings I would state that the protesting was their right and they were allowed to do it. The thing is burning, looting and murdering isn't a right so I disagree with those actions. You seem to think that protesting is a right that's only given to the people who are protesting what you agree with and things you don't agree with can't be protested over. Well, you're wrong. The Conservatives have just as much of a right to protest as the left does.
> 
> 
> 
> You realize you're advocating murdering a group of people, right? Surely, that's against the rules. From what I've seen here you can't even advocate that certain groups of people are sick in the head let alone that they should be murdered. Maybe I should just report your post?


...its sad that you have to create Burner account to vomit racist garbage

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

lol its been reported that Pence unfollowed TRUMP


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It appears that they're being "cleaned out" with live rounds, one woman was shot in the neck, looking into the details as we speak.


At least three people were taken to the hospital, including one police officer.  I'd fully expect to be shot by live rounds if I was attempting to breach and occupy the US Senate.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

From what I'm reading in the huge Twitter storm of news right now it appears that the National Guard and tactical units have been dispatched, so this is going to get a whole lot messier if the protestors insist on maintaining the sieges in Kansas, Georgia and the Capitol. The president has officially denounced violent protest and urged the protestors to cease all violence and listen to law enforcement.

I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2021


Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2021


It's getting pretty nuts out there, hopefully things quiet down right quick. I'm against this kind of protest just as much as I was opposed to violent Floyd protestors.


Xzi said:


> At least three people were taken to the hospital, including one police officer.  I'd fully expect to be shot by live rounds if I was attempting to breach and occupy the US Senate.


Can't say that I disagree, violent protest is not the answer, glad we're on the same page.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

"The steal is real!"


----------



## leon315 (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Look at all of these idiots recording their faces while committing felonies. They're gonna lose their jobs real quick.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Not to mention that they are locked within the Capitol building.


no, they won't, cauz some employees are republican too.


----------



## ut2k4master (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> "WE are the Party of Law & Order."


clearly...


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I don't agree with the lefts excuse to protest, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to protest. Protesting is a right, an actual real right that exists. If the left wasn't murdering, looting and burning down buildings I would state that the protesting was their right and they were allowed to do it. The thing is burning, looting and murdering isn't a right so I disagree with those actions. You seem to think that protesting is a right that's only given to the people who are protesting what you agree with and things you don't agree with can't be protested over. Well, you're wrong. The Conservatives have just as much of a right to protest as the left does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ELIJAH SCHAFFER on Twitter: "BREAKING: revolution in process as Trump supporters break into the Capitol building, attacking police, breaking windows, and knocking down doors Full anarchy at this “mostly peaceful” demonstration DC The people have pushed through &amp; are storming to main chambers https://t.co/NW6VDDNBQw" / Twitter

ELIJAH SCHAFFER on Twitter: "BREAKING: Trump supporters have breached the Capitol building, tearing down 4 layers of security fencing and are attempting to occupy the building — fighting federal police who are overrun This is the craziest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. Thousands, police can’t stop them https://t.co/VVdTUwV5YN" / Twitter

Tyler Kingkade on Twitter: "MAGA protesters are spraying pepper spray back at police on Capitol Hill https://t.co/9TeqRefjZq" / Twitter

Holly Figueroa O'Reilly on Twitter: "Hoooooly shit, if the National Guard isn't on the premises, it might be time to mobilize. The irony of watching these MAGA idiots wielding Blue Lives Matter flags while injuring police...well, the writers really outdid themselves this season. https://t.co/RQDTQL9uhp" / Twitter

Ebony Jade Hilton, MD on Twitter: "They said kneeling is bad. So if kneeling was bad, what in the hell do you call this? #Evangelicals, #BlueLivesMatter folks, speak up! And get your people. #WhiteSupremacists are #DomesticTerrorists. @realDonaldTrump, step down. https://t.co/fbN1VXjen9" / Twitter

Timothy Burke on Twitter: "Injured police officer evacuated after being attacked by Trump supporters: https://t.co/OKEVDtGarb" / Twitter

Timothy Burke on Twitter: "Now multiple officers injured. https://t.co/yRDc9AEHNg" / Twitter

Ivy on Twitter: "Not the conservatives tweeting "fuck the police" and attacking them. What happened to #BlueLivesMatter and #BacktheBlue ?? Hypocrites https://t.co/x9Qc2gAIrA" / Twitter

This is day -14 of the riots. It is safe to assume that these riots will only explode in magnitude once Biden is Inaugurated.

Either both of these protests/riots are all riots, or they aren't. Pick one.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> ELIJAH SCHAFFER on Twitter: "BREAKING: revolution in process as Trump supporters break into the Capitol building, attacking police, breaking windows, and knocking down doors Full anarchy at this “mostly peaceful” demonstration DC The people have pushed through &amp; are storming to main chambers https://t.co/NW6VDDNBQw" / Twitter
> 
> ELIJAH SCHAFFER on Twitter: "BREAKING: Trump supporters have breached the Capitol building, tearing down 4 layers of security fencing and are attempting to occupy the building — fighting federal police who are overrun This is the craziest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. Thousands, police can’t stop them https://t.co/VVdTUwV5YN" / Twitter
> 
> ...



It's too bad the Liberal left doesn't apply this logic to the protesting from their side that's been going on for almost a year.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The Conservatives have just as much of a right to protest as the left does.


This. 100% this. Oh, by the way, Conservatives do *NOT *have the right to storm the capitol building and those who are are very much breaking the law.

They totally have the right to peacefully protest within the confines of the law. The Supreme Court has many times upheld that the First Amendment allows the government to regulate the time, place, and manner of speech (including protests) as long as the regulation is content neutral. 

The inside of the capitol building is 100% off-limits and protestors can not legally storm it in the manner that they are. Whether you like it or not, these protestors (and for sake of argument I'm not calling them "rioters" or "terrorists" like I may be tempted to) are way outside the confines of the law.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

Isn't it too late for the 25th amendment? Removal now would cause even more craziness.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

You know what else I just realized that makes me not give what Liberals have to say any deep though is the fact we've just had almost a year of them screaming to defund and get rid of the police. We've seen them attack police verbally and physically at any time they could and then yet suddenly when shit hits the fan they are like "Police, come help us! You must do this". It's like suddenly they need the police. What a load.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> They haven't burned down any cities yet, from what I can tell. It appears that the protestor are rather diverse, there's lots of different groups there, from your average MAGA to fringe ones like the Black Israelites, of all people. It sure is interesting.


wow, that's extremely hyperbolic of you.
burning down cities, yeah... sure... burning down a building?mmm doesn't have such the tone.
Second, being "diverse" (which I really doubt it actually is)  doesn't mean your not racist or a hate group.
History has shown that, and I'm pretty sure you pulled that exact defense for the proudboys.
what was it?
that the proudboys can't be racist because their current leader is black? Even though that person really is more of stand in since the original leader got into lawsuits. Specifically over the fact he was leading a hate group and that got him in trouble?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

oh its already really sad... These Domestic terrorists are DUMB as hell or really believe they going to succed a coup because most of them taking pictures with their full face

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> You know what else I just realized that makes me not give what Liberals have to say any deep though is the fact we've just had almost a year of them screaming to defund and get rid of the police. We've seen them attack police verbally and physically at any time they could and then yet suddenly when shit hits the fan they are like "Police, come help us! You must do this". It's like suddenly they need the police. What a load.


remember when the south rose again... well not today..


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> This. 100% this. Oh, by the way, Conservatives do *NOT *have the right to storm the capitol building and those who are are very much breaking the law.
> 
> They totally have the right to peacefully protest within the confines of the law. The Supreme Court has many times upheld that the First Amendment allows the government to regulate the time, place, and manner of speech (including protests) as long as the regulation is content neutral.
> 
> The inside of the capitol building is 100% off-limits and protestors can not legally storm it in the manner that they are. Whether you like it or not, these protestors (and for sake of argument I'm not calling them "rioters" or "terrorists" like I may be tempted to) are way outside the confines of the law.



Some are outside the confines of the law. I agree with you there, but I don't care. If you wanted me to care you'd have to get the Liberals to admit their side was outside the confines of the law during the past year of riots, looting, arson and murder. That would include getting the Liberal media to condemn those acts and the Liberals who committed them to be punished. Until that happens I think my side has just as much right to go fuck all as the Liberals did. After all, if it's okay for them to do it why should it be a problem for us to do it?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> This. 100% this. Oh, by the way, Conservatives do *NOT *have the right to storm the capitol building and those who are are very much breaking the law.
> 
> They totally have the right to peacefully protest within the confines of the law. The Supreme Court has many times upheld that the First Amendment allows the government to regulate the time, place, and manner of speech (including protests) as long as the regulation is content neutral.
> 
> The inside of the capitol building is 100% off-limits and protestors can not legally storm it in the manner that they are. Whether you like it or not, these protestors (and for sake of argument I'm not calling them "rioters" or "terrorists" like I may be tempted to) are way outside the confines of the law.


Couldn't agree more. Even a huge MAGApede like me can't condone this. They have a right to protest, they don't have the right to storm federal buildings.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> It's too bad the Liberal left doesn't apply this logic to the protesting from their side that's been going on for almost a year.


So then you admit that these are riots?

Also, within BLM protests, you tended to see that organizers for these events strictly advocated for no violence. On a community level for these events, however, it appears to be the opposite.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> So then you admit that these are riots?
> 
> Also, within BLM protests, you tended to see that organizers for these events strictly advocated for no violence. On a community level for these events, however, it appears to be the opposite.



If some of the protesters start to trespass or destroy property then yes they are no longer protesting. If there's a big group of people doing that then that would qualify as a riot. I'm not caught up trying to justify my sides illegal activity by calling it "mostly peaceful protesting" like the left did. It's just I don't care if some shit gets fucked up because we just had a year of the Liberals burning, looting, rioting, destroying property and attacking the police. If it's okay for their side to do it then it's fine by me if our side does it.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Some are outside the confines of the law. I agree with you there, but I don't care. If you wanted me to care you'd have to get the Liberals to admit their side was outside the confines of the law during the past year of riots, looting, arson and murder. That would include getting the Liberal media to condemn those acts and the Liberals who committed them to be punished. Until that happens I think my side has just as much right to go fuck all as the Liberals did. After all, if it's okay for them to do it why should it be a problem for us to do it?


you should log in to your main account ... and spew this garabge...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'm calling out the Mods in allowing people to create Burner accounts to incite violence


----------



## leon315 (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> ELIJAH SCHAFFER on Twitter: "BREAKING: revolution in process as Trump supporters break into the Capitol building, attacking police, breaking windows, and knocking down doors Full anarchy at this “mostly peaceful” demonstration DC The people have pushed through &amp; are storming to main chambers https://t.co/NW6VDDNBQw" / Twitter
> 
> This is day -14 of the riots. It is safe to assume that these riots will only explode in magnitude once Biden is Inaugurated.
> 
> Either both of these protests/riots are all riots, or they aren't. Pick one.


IT'S WEIRD that police didn't shot anyone yet......


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> you should log in to your main account ... and spew this garabge...
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> I'm calling out the Mods in allowing people to create Burner accounts to incite violence



I'm not advocating for violence. I'm simply stating I don't care if it takes place. There's consequences to your actions so if you do go burn, loot and murder like the Liberals did you may end up dead or in jail. I also don't have any other accounts on this site. I've been lurking since I found out about 3DS hacking (back when Ninjahax was a thing), but never had any desire to create an account.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If some of the protesters start to trespass or destroy property then yes they are no longer protesting. If there's a big group of people doing that then that would qualify as a riot. I'm not caught up trying to justify my sides illegal activity by calling it "mostly peaceful protesting" like the left did. It's just I don't care if some shit gets fucked up because we just had a year of the Liberals burning, looting, rioting, destroying property and attacking the police. If it's okay for their side to do it then it's fine by me if our side does it.


All of the, "protesters" in or outside of the Capital are trespassing and refusing to leave. D.C has also declared a curfew for 6 PM. They will most likely stick around.

All of the rioting during the BLM protests/riots were condemned by Liberals.

Conservatives really need to learn the difference between Leftists and Liberals.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> All of the, "protesters" in or outside of the Capital are trespassing and refusing to leave. D.C has also declared a curfew for 6 PM. They will most likely stick around.
> 
> All of the rioting during the BLM protests/riots were condemned by Liberals.
> 
> Conservatives really need to learn the difference between Leftists and Liberals.



The Liberal left completely downplayed the murders, arson and looting or out right tried to justify it. You can't just come here claiming they didn't when I just spend almost a year watching them do so. Remember CHAZ? Remember Portland over this last weekend? Those peaceful protesters really followed the rule of law. ROFL.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 6, 2021)

sooooooooooo . . . what was that about libtards crying about the 2016 election?


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I don't agree with the lefts excuse to protest, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to protest. Protesting is a right, an actual real right that exists. If the left wasn't murdering, looting and burning down buildings I would state that the protesting was their right and they were allowed to do it.



The "left" isn't murdering, looting and burning down buildings.
The "right" didn't storm the capitol.

Individual people did. Pathetic people.
Really pathetic people.

If they'd stood outside protesting then it would be fine.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The Liberal left completely downplayed the murders, arson and looting or out right tried to justify it. You can't just come here claiming they didn't when I just spend almost a year watching them do so. Remember CHAZ?


Liberal left is an oxymoron.

Liberals/Democrats did not justify any of those. Downplaying? Maybe. But justifying? You must've spent a year within a Conservative bubble, then.

This is turning into CHAZ 2.0, except the police aren't actually doing anything about it.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> sooooooooooo . . . what was that about libtards crying about the 2016 election?



They still claim to this day Trump isn't/wasn't their President. If they can spend 4 years claiming Trump wasn't the President of the USA including impeaching Trump over simply winning then I think my side has the right to do the same.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Liberal left is an oxymoron.
> 
> Liberals/Democrats did not justify any of those. Downplaying? Maybe. But justifying? You must've spent a year within a Conservative bubble, then.
> 
> This is turning into CHAZ 2.0, except the police aren't actually doing anything about it.



I take the fact that CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC never condemned the looting, rioting or arson and calling it "mostly peaceful protesting" as justifying. All of those networks also aired BLM propaganda including demonizing the police. CHAZ if you recall didn't have any police inside of the area for most of its existence. It wasn't until people started to get murdered that they cleared the area out.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> They still claim to this day Trump isn't/wasn't their President. If they can spend 4 years claiming Trump wasn't the President of the USA including impeaching Trump over simply winning then I think my side has the right to do the same.


You sound like a child. I thought Conservatives were the side of integrity?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The Liberal left completely downplayed the murders, arson and looting or out right tried to justify it. You can't just come here claiming they didn't when I just spend almost a year watching them do so. Remember CHAZ? Remember Portland over this last weekend? Those peaceful protesters really followed the rule of law. ROFL.


In all fairness, whataboutism isn't productive. Just because one group of protestors was downplayed by the media doesn't mean that another group gets a carte blanche to throw their toys out of the pram also. What's happening is wrong - plain and simple. I was against the BLM/Antifa protestors when they were trying to burn down federal buildings, I'm against MAGA protestors storming them now. This is not a partisan issue.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> They still claim to this day Trump isn't/wasn't their President. If they can spend 4 years claiming Trump wasn't the President of the USA including impeaching Trump over simply winning then I think my side has the right to do the same.


"Not my president" =/= "not THE president."  You're free to pout for the next four years straight if that's really how you want to spend all your time, it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> You sound like a child. I thought Conservatives were the side of integrity?



What sounds like a child is for someone to behave a certain way for 4 years and then turn around and call someone else out for behaving the exact same way.


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You know what else I just realized that makes me not give what Liberals have to say any deep though is the fact we've just had almost a year of them screaming to defund and get rid of the police.



When you're black and you're being killed by the police then I can imagine they'll screen quite a few things.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "Not my president" =/= "not THE president."  You're free to pout for the next four years straight if that's really how you want to spend all your time, it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.



Sorry bud, but if you're a USA citizen TRUMP IS YOUR PRESIDENT.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> When you're black and you're being killed by the police then I can imagine they'll screen quite a few things.



George Floyd wasn't killed by the police. He overdosed on illegal drugs. Try again.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> They still claim to this day Trump isn't/wasn't their President. If they can spend 4 years claiming Trump wasn't the President of the USA including impeaching Trump over simply winning then I think my side has the right to do the same.


Hi, I'm a rational American.

Trump is president of the USA and has been for 4 years. Congrats republicans!

Oh, and in 14 days Biden will be president. Congrats democrats!

Claiming that the president isn't president or that the next president won't be president is irrational. Oh and if I recall correctly Trump wasn't impeached because he won. I think that you overlooked a few details.


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> What sounds like a child is for someone to behave a certain way for 4 years and then turn around and call someone else out for behaving the exact same way.



Yeah, when Hilary Clinton spent six months before the election saying the election would be rigged and then repeating those claims after the election and incited violence it was exactly the same.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Sorry bud, but if you're a USA citizen TRUMP IS YOUR PRESIDENT.


Way to undermine your own argument there.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Sorry bud, but if you're a USA citizen TRUMP IS YOUR PRESIDENT.


And as of January 20th, 2021. Biden will. 



Frankfort42 said:


> What sounds like a child is for someone to behave a certain way for 4 years and then turn around and call someone else out for behaving the exact same way.



Calling a side out for doing something wrong =/= justification to do that wrong act.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> Hi, I'm a rational American.
> 
> Trump is president of the USA and has been for 4 years. Congrats republicans!
> 
> ...



Trump is your President if you're a USA citizen. Biden will be a couple of weeks. I'm not part of any moronic movement that denies the President "isn't my President". I'm a citizen of the USA so Trump is my President now and Biden will be a couple of weeks.

You're also wrong about the impeachment. The Liberal left planned to impeach Trump without any wrong doing simply for winning the 2016 election. You should probably go educate yourself about the Liberals preplanned impeachment before claiming I don't know what I'm talking about.


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Sorry bud, but if you're a USA citizen TRUMP IS YOUR PRESIDENT.



Nope, he is the president of the United States. It's a first amendment right to distance yourself from him.

Saying someone is not my president means you accept he is the president, but that you find them objectionable.



Frankfort42 said:


> George Floyd wasn't killed by the police. He overdosed on illegal drugs. Try again.



He overdosed on the policeman's knee?


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> George Floyd wasn't killed by the police. He overdosed on illegal drugs. Try again.


How would you like someone’s knee to be on your throat?


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> How would you like someone’s knee to be on your throat?



I wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't kill me. Nor did it kill George Floyd. He shouldn't have taken a deadly dose of drugs and resisted arrest. He'd still be alive and wouldn't have experienced pavement in his face.


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't kill me. Nor did it kill George Floyd. He shouldn't have taken a deadly dose of drugs and resisted arrest. He'd still be alive and wouldn't have experienced pavement in his face.



He didn't resist arrest.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> George Floyd wasn't killed by the police. He overdosed on illegal drugs. Try again.



"Sure, I shot him, but he died from a loss of blood! I'm innocent!"


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

smf said:


> He didn't resist arrest.



Yes he did, it's all of the complete video.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

I think that's enough about George Floyd now, this isn't relevant in context of the election or the current situation, and entirely off-topic. I'll be deleting any comments not pertaining to the 2020 elections going forward.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Trump is your President if you're a USA citizen. Biden will be a couple of weeks. I'm not part of any moronic movement that denies the President "isn't my President". I'm a citizen of the USA so Trump is my President now and Biden will be a couple of weeks.


Bruh. So, like, you undermined yourself when you said this:


Frankfort42 said:


> They still claim to this day Trump isn't/wasn't their President. If they can spend 4 years claiming Trump wasn't the President of the USA including impeaching Trump over simply winning then I think my side has the right to do the same.


Or is there a very small distinction between those statements that you'll use to act like you're being consistent? Oh and bonus points if your justification doesn't involve the tu quoque fallacy. That means you're not allowed to say "the dems did it so the repubs can too.

Edit: Ah, he left. Anyway, how 'bout them protestors!? Crazy, right?


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 6, 2021)

With that said everyone. It was fun. Like I said I just wanted to sign up to point out how hypocritical the Liberal left is being over this entire protesting/rioting being done by the Conservative right. I've said all I've needed to say and I guess I have an account now so if I need console modding help down the road I won't have to create one to ask for help. Take care! God bless the USA. Oh, and Trump won in 2016 and he is your President (if you're a USA citizen).


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

@Foxi4 you really just allowed a Burner account to incite violence? Great Modding!


----------



## smf (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Like I said I just wanted to sign up to point out how hypocritical the Liberal left is being over this entire protesting/rioting being done by the Conservative right.



I condemned the violence during the BLM protests, I'll condemn the protests today. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I also condemn the lack of social distancing in any of the mass gatherings in 2020.

I'm not responsible for any behavior of any "liberal left". Do you take legal and moral responsibility for everyone who shares your political views? The crazies with guns tend to be on the right, you would have a lot to answer for.



Frankfort42 said:


> Take care! God bless the USA.



I don't have a god, I don't know who your god is but my understanding of the major religions in the USA there isn't one who would be looking favorably on your behavior.



Frankfort42 said:


> Oh, and Trump won in 2016 and he is your President (if you're a USA citizen).



He was the president of the united states. One of a very few presidents that failed to gain a second term. Because enough people didn't consider him their president.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

djpannda said:


> @Foxi4 you really just allowed a Burner account to incite violence? Great Modding!


I wouldn't pin that on Foxi. We don't have proof that it was an alt and unless someone reported one of his comments for the mods to investigate then it wasn't even on their radar.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm glad they won, of course, but if the Dems would have lost, how many people would have drop their fraud chanting?


----------



## rensenware (Jan 6, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> They still claim to this day Trump isn't/wasn't their President. If they can spend 4 years claiming Trump wasn't the President of the USA including impeaching Trump over simply winning then I think my side has the right to do the same.



Who's they? I don't know of a single person, personally, that ever said that. Stop looking at 'leftist owned' compilations. Meanwhile you have 100k people storming the capitol when Trump loses


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> I wouldn't pin that on Foxi. We don't have proof that it was an alt and unless someone reported one of his comments for the mods to investigate then it wasn't even on their radar.


Perhaps it wasn't deleted because it's not an alt account. I can see a bit more than the average bear, but moderation procedures are strictly confidential and not discussed publicly. Needless to say though, if there was any evidence of it being an alt, it wouldn't be here.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

One hour left until curfew.  Get your popcorn ready, because water cannons are probably the gentlest method available for clearing out this violent mob.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 6, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> The argument that only democratic protestors are violent isn't holding up too well at the moment. The protestors are literally breaching the capitol building right now, standing outside the senate chamber, and issuing bomb threats.


The “You lost, get over it” crowd is having a hard time getting over their loss.


----------



## th3joker (Jan 6, 2021)

The 2 and a half party political system has always been a joke. To have the people constantly fight over whos ideals are correct based off capitalism and what better for the greater good but never be satisfied. I personally voted so that the system would fail and burn itself down. Because a executioner will never hang himself the government can never "fix itself" with more democracy . The house has to be burned down to the foundation before it can be rebuilt. Wasting energy putting good money over bad. The "united" part of united states is a publicly correct buzz word. We have never been united unless during a world war. And that is more out of fear than pride. Thus me watching the shit show on tv today makes me smile like heath ledgers joker and slow clap. Because a revolution is afoot and the powers that fear that see it comming. Remember media has never been 100% truth based. There is always a political bias. Thus what your told to believe mindlessly and blindlessly will never be true. Its always to serve a higher agenda usually leading to lining the pockets of someone.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

that does not look like President Trump ???


----------



## Chary (Jan 6, 2021)

Imagine how much more productive Americans would be if we didn’t boil down our politics to red team vs blue team sports ride-or-die mentality.


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 6, 2021)

Hopefully Trump is removed from office


----------



## Lacius (Jan 6, 2021)

Chary said:


> Imagine how much more productive Americans would be if we didn’t boil down our politics to red team vs blue team sports ride-or-die mentality.


It's too bad one side is trying to overthrow election results through force.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's too bad one side is trying to overthrow election results through force.



i believe the word is insurrection.


----------



## th3joker (Jan 6, 2021)

I like how this is basically the preamble to the 2021 civil war.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 6, 2021)

I wish I had the cognitive dissonance required to carry around a "thin blue line" flag while chanting "blue lives matter!" as I get teargassed by the police due to my attempts to push the limits of my "unlimited" freedom of speech.


----------



## Hanafuda (Jan 6, 2021)

Anyone here ever hear that old George Carlin joke, "You ever notice how other people's stuff is shit, and your shit is stuff!?!?!" 

Apparently that's how CNN is with "rioters" and "protesters." All depends on which side of the political aisle you stand.

For what it's worth, I think these idiots who forced their way into the Capitol today deserve all the tear gas the cops can hit them with, they deserve to be arrested, and they deserve to be jailed. But those "protesters" last summer deserved that too.

Nobody deserved to be shot though, especially not a kid.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 6, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's too bad one side is trying to overthrow election results through force.


One side does not believe in democracy, they want the US to become a dictatorship or monarchy.  This does speak to the need for ranked choice voting and more political parties to emerge from it, but there's also a deeper problem here.  We've got people wearing swastika armbands, waving confederate flags, and proclaiming themselves to be the most patriotic of all.  The disease of white supremacy has once against infected too many American institutions: the police, the military, the intelligence agencies.  What we need is a modern-day William Sherman to be elected president and clean house.


----------



## Master X (Jan 6, 2021)

Didn't take long for Lin Wood to push the idea that everything in DC was a antifa false flag.

He has the most irrefutable proof of all - A cropped photo of viking guy, at a BLM rally.

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1346937871568162816

...Of course, the full version of that photo shows him holding a QAnon sign.

You cropped the full sign out of the first photo @KelemenCari https://t.co/9FjhOBcMzC pic.twitter.com/VFSMhZrQvA— Yashar Ali 🐘 یاشار (@yashar) January 6, 2021


I gotta love the audacity of it though. His proof that this was a antifa false flag is a picture of a LARPer with a thing for Brave Heart.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 6, 2021)

waiting for the 3am announce from Congress


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

Master X said:


> Didn't take long for Lin Wood to push the idea that everything in DC was a antifa false flag.
> 
> He has the most irrefutable proof of all - A cropped photo of viking guy, at a BLM rally.
> 
> ...


I never thought I would say this sentence in my lifetime, but an insane shaman following online Qesus led a successful siege on Capitol Hill. Is 2021 real life? Was 2020 just Level 1?

Joking aside, he seems to be a fairly prominent figure in the Qverse, having been interviewed previously at various protests.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 7, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I never thought I would say this sentence in my lifetime, but an insane shaman following online Qesus led a successful siege on Capitol Hill. Is 2021 real life? Was 2020 just Level 1?
> 
> Joking aside, he seems to be a fairly prominent figure in the Qverse, having been interviewed previously at various protests.



we aren't in 2021, we're in 2020 prestige 1.

also these idiots didn't wear masks, while raiding capitol hill and posting it on social media. hello facial recognition?


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 7, 2021)

"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"

Did Trump just justify storming the Capital building? Reality really IS stranger than fiction.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

omgcat said:


> we aren't in 2021, we're in 2020 prestige 1.
> 
> also these idiots didn't wear masks, while raiding capitol hill and posting it on social media. hello facial recognition?


To be fair, many were also live streaming, so I don't think anonymity was a concern. Thankfully it was only a small minority that thought it prudent to breach security perimeters - if a 100k people went into Capitol Hill, no amount of force could stop them.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 7, 2021)

they finally locked trump's account.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

omgcat said:


> they finally locked trump's account.


Nah, still up, just checked.

In any case, a bit of sad news - the lady that was shot in the neck by law enforcement has passed away. From what I gathered so far she was shot as she was pulling her phone out of her pocket. The law enforcement thought it was a concealed weapon and fired.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 7, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Nah, still up, just checked.


They didn't delete it, but it's locked for 12 hours. His most recent two posts have also been removed.

Edit: I can never embed tweets right so here's a screenshot.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 7, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Nah, still up, just checked.


it was for 12 hours or until he deleted a bunch of videos. guess he deleted them.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

omgcat said:


> it was for 12 hours or until he deleted a bunch of videos. guess he deleted them.


Yeah, he's in the dog house for 12 hours.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 7, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
> 
> Did Trump just justify storming the Capital building? Reality really IS stranger than fiction.



Of course he justifies it. He condones it! 25th amendment time! Let's see justice be served and lock him up!


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 7, 2021)

The 25th amendment WILL be acted upon! Trump is out of order, out of his mind and out of the presidency!

Goodbye Trump! Btw Melina just quit....


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

I saw this joke that Pence just became Vader saving Luke (democracy) from the Emperor (trump) 

it gave me a chuckle.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jan 7, 2021)

Full mask off I guess after pretending for 4 years that everyone left of them were the violent. overly-emotional, and easy to incite towards violence and all it took was their "side" losing elections.

Gonna need an IMAX theater for this level of projection.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

lol Pence and Mitch, sounded more official with 2 min speeches then Trump has in 4 years

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

is anyone watch the Congress...?WHOA that Republican flat out gave up lol


----------



## seany1990 (Jan 7, 2021)

Dear Mainstream Media
This is literal fascist stochastic terrorism, when are you finally going to call it out?


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 7, 2021)

seany1990 said:


> Dear Mainstream Media
> This is literal fascist stochastic terrorism, when are you finally going to call it out?


Pretty sure the media already milked the situation, what are you on about?


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

Driving_duck said:


> Pretty sure the media already milked the situation, what are you on about?


that they didn't call it out.
at all.
They definitely milked it with lip service.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

lol SENATOR Kelly just gave up..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

sent. Booker just bitched smacked Ted Cruz for scamming .. I mean funding raising


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 7, 2021)

I wonder if the trend of "must be rigged, so I won't even vote" continues to happen.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

seany1990 said:


> Dear Mainstream Media
> This is literal fascist stochastic terrorism, when are you finally going to call it out?


To be fair, a number of pundits and politicians have called it for what it is: domestic terrorism.  They sure as shit weren't being treated like terrorists by the police from what I witnessed though, more like a capitol building tour group.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 7, 2021)

One thing I find amusing is all of the people still waving TRUMP2020 and MAGA2020 flags. Too dumb to realize the new year happened.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

White House People are resigning left and right .... 25th coming up


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

djpannda said:


> White House People are resigning left and right .... 25th coming up


Pence has an international vacation scheduled to kick off tomorrow, so tonight is probably the last we hear from him.  He's too spineless to invoke the 25th.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Pence has an international vacation scheduled to kick off tomorrow, so tonight is probably the last we hear from him.  He's too spineless to invoke the 25th.


CBS News reports Trump Cabinet members are discussing potentially invoking the 25th Amendment.
its looks like Trump own Cabinet are starting it

Members of Trump's cabinet are discussing the possibility of invoking the 25th Amendment, but nothing formal has been presented so far - CBS— BNO News (@BNONews) January 7, 2021


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

djpannda said:


> CBS News reports Trump Cabinet members are discussing potentially invoking the 25th Amendment.
> its looks like Trump own Cabinet are starting it


It's my understanding that the VP has to be involved in that process for it to even begin though, no?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 7, 2021)

Friendly reminder that the 25th Amendment can also be used against Biden if he gets in.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 7, 2021)

This is turning out to be one of the greatest days in the history Americas democracy. 25th will seal it.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Friendly reminder that the 25th Amendment can also be used against Biden if he gets in.


That'd require Harris going along with it.
And even if it succeeds... what it results in is an African-American woman as Acting President!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 7, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> That'd require Harris going along with it.


Isn't that her goal?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

Everyones turning on Trump... just waiting for CRUZ to walk up with his tail between his legs


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Friendly reminder that the 25th Amendment can also be used against Biden if he gets in.


Biden is many things, but he isn't a wannabe-dictator with delusions of grandeur.  He probably won't even be seeking reelection for a second term, let alone inciting insurrection during ratification of the vote in 2025.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Isn't that her goal?


Well, yes, but just because it'd get her where she wants doesn't mean she'd bother doing what is basically an emergency play just to gain power.
And even if it does happen, I'd be perfectly fine with it. (Heck, she'd probably get more done!)



Xzi said:


> It's my understanding that the VP has to be involved in that process for it to even begin though, no?


Bad news: Pence is, as was discussed, a spineless coward.
Good news: Pence basically ditched him earlier today after Trump called him a traitor for _literally just stating that he cannot do things __that his position does not grant him the power to do_, so he's already made that decision. Now he just has to speak up.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Isn't that her goal?


I find it weird that "nationalist" tend to use Harris becoming president as a scare tactic?? 
Are "people" that racist and sexist that a Black Woman scares you


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 7, 2021)

I would personally prefer Harris over Biden. So I guess I'm on board.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

djpannda said:


> I find it weird that "nationalist" tend to use Harris becoming president as a scare tactic??
> Are "people" that racist and sexist that a Black Woman scares you


They're deathly afraid of equality and representation, but perfectly fine with a kakistocratic-fascist coup, or KFC for short. (Couldn't resist slipping a pun in there.)


----------



## Lacius (Jan 7, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Friendly reminder that the 25th Amendment can also be used against Biden if he gets in.


Friendly reminder that Biden didn't encourage a militia to attack the Capitol and threaten the physical safety of Congress.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 7, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Everyones turning on Trump... just waiting for CRUZ to walk up with his tail between his legs


Cruz is attempting to take hold of the, "Trumpium" energy that nobody else in the GOP can create. He's no doubt going to run for President in 2024.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I would personally prefer Harris over Biden. So I guess I'm on board.


Reluctantly I agree, though there are a number of names I'd prefer over either of them.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 7, 2021)

djpannda said:


> lol SENATOR Kelly just gave up..


Was it because she cares about what happened at the capital or is it actually because she lost?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

this entire situation summed up quick:
roses are red
violets are blue
these fascist fucks
are staging a coup


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Pence has an international vacation scheduled to kick off tomorrow, so tonight is probably the last we hear from him.  He's too spineless to invoke the 25th.


He also has no grounds to do so, nor is there a point. The speediest way would be to invoke Section 4, get a simple majority of cabinet secretaries to approve and declare Pence as acting president until Congress considers the issue and the inevitable objection. The 2/3rds in both houses restriction doesn't apply, especially not in this scenario given how close we are to the end of the term - there's simply not enough time for the entirety of the process to play out. That doesn't remove Trump from office - he keeps the title, Pence would only temporarily take over the duties. Since Trump's term ends in 2 weeks regardless, it would be a giant waste of everyone's time. There will be a lot of pearl clutching for the next couple of days, and a lot of posturing, but ultimately it's hard for me to imagine Trump getting charged with anything - he did call for people to protest the vote count, he never told anyone to storm the building, that was done by a small number of crazies that were fairly quickly dealt with and dispersed. I don't think either Pence or Congress will waste time on a meaningless gesture. Keep in mind, Section 4 was designed for cases where the president is unable to fulfil his duties, for instance due to Ill health, and has never been invoked, so that in and out of itself would be unprecedented.

https://www.vox.com/2021/1/6/22217641/25th-amendment-section-4-pence-trump-cabinet


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

I just had a look at the last couple of pages and I don't even know where to start... Guys... You gotta stop taking the bait. Back to scrubbing, I guess...


----------



## vincentx77 (Jan 7, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> He also has no grounds to do so, nor is there a point. The speediest way would be to invoke Section 4, get a simple majority of cabinet secretaries to approve and declare Pence as acting president until Congress considers the issue and the inevitable objection. The 2/3rds in both houses restriction doesn't apply, especially not in this scenario given how close we are to the end of the term - there's simply not enough time for the entirety of the process to play out. That doesn't remove Trump from office - he keeps the title, Pence would only temporarily take over the duties. Since Trump's term ends in 2 weeks regardless, it would be a giant waste of everyone's time. There will be a lot of pearl clutching for the next couple of days, and a lot of posturing, but ultimately it's hard for me to imagine Trump getting charged with anything - he did call for people to protest the vote count, he never told anyone to storm the building, that was done by a small number of crazies that were fairly quickly dealt with and dispersed. I don't think either Pence or Congress will waste time on a meaningless gesture. Keep in mind, Section 4 was designed for cases where the president is unable to fulfil his duties, for instance due to Ill health, and has never been invoked, so that in and out of itself would be unprecedented.
> 
> https://www.vox.com/2021/1/6/222176...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter



There are certainly grounds to do it. You have a sitting president who can't stop speaking about conspiracy theories related to his own election in order to handle what became a riot on the capitol, leaving one woman dead and forcing congress to stop doing their job. His behavior shows him unfit for office. It's not just a dereliction of duties. He's actually bringing harm to the overall democracy of the nation. There's easily a case to be made that his mental health is in question. The more immediate question, though, would be if removing him from office would help or make things worse. If the whole reason these people are rioting is because they feel their county is being stolen from them, then removing their president from his last two weeks in office, justified or not, is going to rub salt in the wound. There's no good answer here, at least, one that doesn't involve getting Trump to stop being a petulant asshole.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

vincentx77 said:


> There are certainly grounds to do it. You have a sitting president who can't stop speaking about conspiracy theories related to his own election in order to handle what became a riot on the capitol, leaving one woman dead and forcing congress to stop doing their job. His behavior shows him unfit for office. It's not just a dereliction of duties. He's actually bringing harm to the overall democracy of the nation. There's easily a case to be made that his mental health is in question. The more immediate question, though, would be if removing him from office would help or make things worse. If the whole reason these people are rioting is because they feel their county is being stolen from them, then removing their president from his last two weeks in office, justified or not, is going to rub salt in the wound. There's no good answer here, at least, one that doesn't involve getting Trump to stop being a petulant asshole.


As a conservative my general point of view is that the government should be kept on a tight leash. Once we give them consent to remove a President on a whim once, it will set a precedent for the future, and those always come back to bite you. Unless Trump starts running around covered from head to toes in chocolate I don't think questioning his fitness is the right path, especially not with only two weeks to go. We'll see how this goes, right now it's all armchair theorising.

EDIT: In any case, the thread has been cleaned up with a grenade - from what I can tell, all of the unsavoury rhetoric, or responses to it, are now gone and we can focus our attention on current events. If something was missed, everybody knows where the button is. My general advice is "if you think it's trolling or unsavoury, don't respond to it". It makes our lives oh-so-much easier to locate the troubling content in question and removing it.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> As a conservative my general point of view is that the government should be kept on a tight leash. Once we give them consent to remove a President on a whim once, it will set a precedent for the future, and those always come back to bite you. Unless Trump starts running around covered from head to toes in chocolate I don't think questioning his fitness is the right path, especially not with only two weeks to go. We'll see how this goes, right now it's all armchair theorising.
> 
> EDIT: In any case, the thread has been cleaned up with a grenade - from what I can tell, all of the unsavoury rhetoric, or responses to it, are now gone and we can focus our attention on current events. If something was missed, everybody knows where the button is. My general advice is "if you think it's trolling or unsavoury, don't respond to it". It makes our lives oh-so-much easier to locate the troubling content in question and removing it.


... can we have another mod... I really don't want to speak bad..


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ... can we have another mod... I really don't want to speak bad..


If you have any concerns you'd like to voice, you're more than welcome to contact me outside of the thread, particularly if it's in regards to actions made against your own posts. I always answer promptly to any correspondence.


----------



## vincentx77 (Jan 7, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> As a conservative my general point of view is that the government should be kept on a tight leash. Once we give them consent to remove a President on a whim once, it will set a precedent for the future, and those always come back to bite you. Unless Trump starts running around covered from head to toes in chocolate I don't think questioning his fitness is the right path, especially not with only two weeks to go. We'll see how this goes, right now it's all armchair theorising.



I disagree that it's a whim. I think he's been shielded from the consequences of his actions by congressional Republicans for at least 2 years now. They laughed off some of Trump's questionable behaviors that may now be coming back to bite all of them in the butt.

Invoking this for his last two weeks in office, when he really wouldn't have time to fight it, is a bit distasteful. Those around him do need to try to keep a muzzle on him, though. Congress must be allowed to do their job. The peaceful transfer of power must be allowed to happen. No matter what anyone thinks about who won or who lost, the world is watching us right now. This makes us look vulnerable.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2021)

vincentx77 said:


> I disagree that it's a whim. I think he's been shielded from the consequences of his actions by congressional Republicans for at least 2 years now. They laughed off some of Trump's questionable behaviors that may now be coming back to bite all of them in the butt.
> 
> Invoking this for his last two weeks in office, when he really wouldn't have time to fight it, is a bit distasteful. Those around him do need to try to keep a muzzle on him, though. Congress must be allowed to do their job. *The peaceful transfer of power must be allowed to happen. No matter what anyone thinks about who won or who lost, the world is watching us right now. This makes us look vulnerable.*


This much I agree with. The Trump team had ample time to challenge the results and they botched it. They still have two weeks to come up with evidence, even if it was only symbolic (considering the votes are certified), so they should get on that. The time for protesting the results was weeks ago, as was the time to investigate any discrepancies. I'm saddened by the protest turning into this myself, but sadly every fold has their crazies - we've seen that throughout many protests at this stage.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

Hey look at that Georgia is not a issue anymore... waiting for the other states to Confirm Biden.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

lol Pence took a deep ass breath when he ask if a senator signed the objection in NEVADA


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 7, 2021)

gbatemp mods supporting terrorism
ya love to see it


----------



## tabzer (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> A bit of humor to cap off my participation in this thread for now:


----------



## vincentx77 (Jan 7, 2021)

Well fuck. Pennsylvania had to go derail the proceedings.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 7, 2021)

vincentx77 said:


> Well fuck. Pennsylvania had to go derail the proceedings.


Doesn't matter. They do not have enough support in the House or the Senate. 

They're just delaying the inevitable while supporting their political careers.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 7, 2021)

vincentx77 said:


> Well fuck. Pennsylvania had to go derail the proceedings.


You mean it was unnecessarily derailed by Senator Hawley and 80 assholes Republicans in the House.

As already stated above, it doesn't matter though. It's just a delay. More importantly, it attempts to legitimize Trump's attempted coup.


----------



## vincentx77 (Jan 7, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Doesn't matter. They do not have enough support in the House or the Senate.
> 
> They're just delaying the inevitable while supporting their political careers.



It would just be nice if this was over and done with. It will hopefully start to calm things down a little once it's actually set in stone.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> You mean it was unnecessarily derailed by Senator Hawley and 80 assholes Republicans in the House.



Well... facts are facts...


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 7, 2021)

vincentx77 said:


> It would just be nice if this was over and done with. It will hopefully start to calm things down a little once it's actually set in stone.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Wonder how trump gonna react to that he lost in that brain of his, if he even has one, I bet is gonna cry about it or some shit, hopefully he does that, so we can see trump getting dragged out of the white house. Thats gonna be a party.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 7, 2021)

vincentx77 said:


> It would just be nice if this was over and done with. It will hopefully start to calm things down a little once it's actually set in stone.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


It would be nice if Trump Supporters and Republicans weren’t throwing the world’s biggest hissy fit. It’s impressive just how far they are willing to keep pushing just avoid reality. Like I said before “The ‘You lost, get over it’ crowd seems to be having a hard time getting over their loss.”
Worth stressing again, Trump lost. There’s no mass voter fraud nor any other nonsense claim, Trump lost the election.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 7, 2021)

lol Seen some people call Ossoff the first weeb senator.


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Worth stressing again, Trump lost. There’s no mass voter fraud nor any other nonsense claim, Trump lost the election.



All we actually know is that there is no evidence of mass voter fraud.

But claiming there must be fraud because you don't like the result is nonsense.

I'm hoping that Rudi Giuliani's call for "trial by combat" is enough for him to lose his license to practice law.


----------



## seany1990 (Jan 7, 2021)




----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

that moment when they've bullied us for years over the 2016 election and we basically just... tried to find evidence of corruption while moving tf on with our lives
and then they lose to biden and absolutely flip the fuck out with some of them committing straight up domestic terrorism
and then you remember they said shit like this
oh how the turntables


----------



## Lacius (Jan 7, 2021)

I hope everyone understands what happened yesterday. Trump supporters mounted an armed insurrection against the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow, by force, the results of a fair, secure, and democratic election. Donald Trump himself instigated this insurrection.

He instigated it when, starting before November, he baselessly and repeatedly told his supports the election was being stolen.
He instigated it when he refused to concede the election after Joe Biden won.
He instigated it when he told his supporters to swarm the Capitol.
He instigated it when he told that same crowd, "You will never take back our country with weakness."
He instigated it when he defended violent supporters like Kyle Rittenhouse.
He instigated it when, instead of condemning his supporters who planned to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, he condemned Gretchen Whitmer.
He instigated it when he told a violent neo-fascist group, the Proud Boys, to "stand back" and "stand by."
He instigated it when promoted violence numerous times throughout his presidency, such as when he said he "wanted to shoot migrants in the legs and keep them away from the southern border with a trench filled with water, alligators, and snakes" and "reportedly asked for a cost estimate for an electrified wall with spikes that could “pierce human flesh."
He instigated it when, before and throughout his presidency, he encouraged violence against protestors and reporters at his rallies.
He instigated it when he said "Second Amendment people" were the only ones who could do anything about it if Hillary Clinton were to win the election in 2016.
There is no defense for what happened yesterday, and there is no defense for instigating what happened yesterday. Even as the violence was unfolding, Trump called the rioters "great patriots" and told them to "remember this day forever." In response to the violence, Trump said "these are the things and events that happen" when the election doesn't go his way.

If at this point, you still want to defend Trump, shame on you. There is no defense for what he did, and you are part of the problem. You apparently think your orange god can do no wrong, even when he literally tries to destroy the democratic institutions that are the backbone of the United States. You are anti-peace. You are anti-reason. You are anti-democracy. You are anti-American.

If you plan to post a futile defense of Trump, don't expect a response from me. There's nothing anybody, not even Trump, can say or do to change your mind.


----------



## leon315 (Jan 7, 2021)

i followed Trump supporters' invasion into The capitol then Chamber evacuated though live coverage, it was instructive and amusing as F, here's the funny thing I discovered: how western world praised Hongkonger rioters and looters who invaded HK parliament were called ridiculously *by westerner standards, The democratic or freedom fighters,  *then later same thing happened in USA, the same rioters and looters are being called *terrorists.
*
Nice American double standard and it's obvious the "democracy" is being used as weapon to attack any USA's enemies but failed to realize yet that their own democracy is a failure.
*
This is the hypocrisy at purest form, proved by Americans themselves.*


----------



## tabzer (Jan 7, 2021)

America is divided, but some people think that they are on the peaceful side when both sides do very dirty things.  I find the haughty, dishonest nature of people to be "anti-peace" "anti-reason" and "anti-democracy".  It's promoted throughout politics at large.  It just gets worse and worse.  Trump isn't the disease.  America is the disease.  He is just another symptom.  Looks like America will return to normal as it declares 4 new wars across the globe in order to "spread democracy".


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

leon315 said:


> i followed Trump supporters' invasion into The capitol then Chamber evacuated though live coverage, it was instructive and amusing as F, here's the funny thing I discovered: how western world praised Hongkonger rioters and looters who invaded HK parliament were called ridiculously *by westerner standards, The democratic or freedom fighters,  *then later same thing happened in USA, the same rioters and looters are being called *terrorists.
> *
> Nice American double standard and it's obvious the "democracy" is being used as weapon to attack any USA's enemies but failed to realize yet that their own democracy is a failure.
> *
> This is the hypocrisy at purest form, proved by Americans themselves.*


To be fair, the situations are different.
China is, as is plainly clear by now, an Orwellian mess lined with censorship and repression.
America is struggling to not become that, despite Trump's wishes.
The Hong Kong protests were fighting against an oppressive government.
Yesterday's riots were, ironically enough, *to oppress the government itself and intimidate it into doing what they want.*


----------



## leon315 (Jan 7, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> To be fair, the situations are different.
> China is, as is plainly clear by now, an Orwellian mess lined with censorship and repression.
> America is struggling to not become that, despite Trump's wishes.
> The Hong Kong protests were fighting against an oppressive government.
> Yesterday's riots were, ironically enough, *to oppress the government itself and intimidate it into doing what they want.*


THE DEMOCRACY or Centralized Govt. is just a form on how one nation choose to administrate the country, when you have no other choices between Democracy and Stability, especially from the foreighers' interference, the one nation chose the later.

I own a trading business and thus i have good relationship with many chineses, and through my personal experience China is NOT oppressive as everyone think, thus you have to live there to tell the truth, there are plenty of Americans who live in China i believe they can confirm this too.

Considering the whole instability China is going though (such autonomous region as Inner Mongolia, Tibet, Sikkim and Taiwan)  most likely will follow Hongkong to declare independence after Hongkongers' referendum. Sounds familiar right? In order to replicate the fall of most influential communist country in the world after USSR in 1991, and Democracy was their ultimate trump card, but unfortunately the entire HK separatist's operation got cracked down before their success, i can tell ya, the HK democracy was entirely, nothing but *a BIG hoax. This is the alternative version I saw from a different view, and it's more convincing and exact opposite from the one showed on any westerners' media.
*
At this point, the only thing sure is no one ever cared about true Democracy, only a TOOL used by people in power to strike their adversaries. Seeing those Trump MAGA Rioter and looter marching into Capitol is the confirmation about it.


----------



## notimp (Jan 7, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America is divided, but some people think that they are on the peaceful side when both sides do very dirty things. I find the haughty, dishonest nature of people to be "anti-peace" "anti-reason" and "anti-democracy". It's promoted throughout politics at large. It just gets worse and worse. Trump isn't the disease. America is the disease. He is just another symptom. Looks like America will return to normal as it declares 4 new wars across the globe in order to "spread democracy".


Jup, last number I heard was that 45% of republicans (voters) condone the storming of the capitol.

But nevermind, who is also condoning it, will bring you closer togeter again.. 

China:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...common-sense-resolve-political-crisis-US.html

Russia:
also is suspiciously quiet right about now..  (I'm sure I could dig out some comment somewhere, but eh...  ) (edit: Oh - the dailymail above did it already..  )


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

leon315 said:


> THE DEMOCRACY or Centralized Govt. is just a form on how one nation choose to administrate the country, when you have no other choices between Democracy and Stability, especially from the foreighers' interference, the one nation chose the later.
> 
> I own a trading business and thus i have good relationship with many chineses, and through my personal experience China is NOT oppressive as everyone think, thus you have to live there to tell the truth, there are plenty of Americans who live in China i believe they can confirm this too.
> 
> ...


China's set up numerous measures, including the Great Firewall, to basically make it illegal if not impossible for people to spread ideologies the government doesn't like.
They ban basically anything that might in any way be linked to said ideologies, let alone anything remotely criticizing the government.
Yeah, it's a textbook Orwellian dystopia.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jan 7, 2021)

just when you thought the voteflakes couldn't get worse they go batshit crazy and try to take over the whitehouse


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

a lot of these "patriots" are being doxed and forwarded to the FBI.. just waiting for the armed stand off where they die for their "rights"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

so the Cops and Feds are combing thru DC and  neighboring areas hotels to arrest these "patriots".


----------



## leon315 (Jan 7, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> China's set up numerous measures, including the Great Firewall, to basically make it illegal if not impossible for people to spread ideologies the government doesn't like.
> They ban basically anything that might in any way be linked to said ideologies, let alone anything remotely criticizing the government.
> Yeah, it's a textbook Orwellian dystopia.





leon315 said:


> when you have no other choices between Democracy and Stability, especially from the foreighers' interference, the one nation chose the later.



Have you read this and get what does it mean? there are on 2 different dimesion i can say, but quote from PELOSI "*A beautiful sight to behold" can be apply on US too, *except US is too proud to admit their failure.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 7, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America is divided, but some people think that they are on the peaceful side when both sides do very dirty things.  I find the haughty, dishonest nature of people to be "anti-peace" "anti-reason" and "anti-democracy".  It's promoted throughout politics at large.  It just gets worse and worse.  Trump isn't the disease.  America is the disease.  He is just another symptom.  Looks like America will return to normal as it declares 4 new wars across the globe in order to "spread democracy".


What happened yesterday (and over the past 4-5 years) was not a "both sides" issue. That's fucking asinine.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 7, 2021)

Lacius said:


> What happened yesterday (and over the past 4-5 years) was not a "both sides" issue. That's fucking asinine.



This is true, for the past 4 years your side has done it. After November 3rd they stopped.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

shamzie said:


> This is true, for the past 4 years your side has done it. After November 3rd they stopped.


oh fucking pleasse.
You know that statement is a load of bull. It's not a both sides issue.
For fuck sakes, essentially that was coup attempt. Those rioters outright said they were trying to get trump to be president again.
Only the republican side did that. only 12 senators essentially calling for sedition, all 12 of them being GOP.



tabzer said:


> but some people think that they are on the peaceful side when both sides do very dirty things.


false equivalency. Right wing ideologies are far more compatible with racism and fascism. What we just saw was clear fascism.
The difference between a coup and a revolution (since some of those followers called it as such)
is that a coup only seeks to change the state head. A revolution is a reform.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 7, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> oh fucking pleasse.
> You know that statement is a load of bull. It's not a both sides issue.
> For fuck sakes, essentially that was coup attempt. Those rioters outright said they were trying to get trump to be president again.
> Only the republican side did that. only 12 senators essentially calling for sedition, all 12 of them being GOP.
> ...



You're right, nobody has riotted or looted at all in the past 4 years. It's been a time of prosperity and peace. My bad.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

shamzie said:


> You're right, nobody has riotted or looted at all in the past 4 years. It's been a time of prosperity and peace. My bad.


yea that never happened... like a group of white racist did not march in Charlotte with torches, .  or white "Patriots" BUMBLEFUCKs taking videos and picture of themselves  while they are committing sedition and becoming Domestic Terrorist.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 7, 2021)

Well, seems like this thread's title aged like wine.


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

leon315 said:


> i followed Trump supporters' invasion into The capitol then Chamber evacuated though live coverage, it was instructive and amusing as F, here's the funny thing I discovered: how western world praised Hongkonger rioters and looters who invaded HK parliament were called ridiculously *by westerner standards, The democratic or freedom fighters,  *then later same thing happened in USA, the same rioters and looters are being called *terrorists.*



I don't remember the hong kong protesters carrying guns and bombs.

If unarmed protesters entered the capitol because they could be locked up for the things you could get locked up for in hong kong then sure.

I'd even accept unarmed protesters entering the capitol because they were butt hurt over Trump losing.

Armed protesters are terrorists.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 7, 2021)

and finally the 25th amendment might (and will) probably be invulked it should've been months ago but the riots thanksfully changed GOP senitors minds if thats a silver lining https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-impeachment-25th-amendment-congress-schumer/index.html


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> the riots thanksfully changed GOP senitors minds if thats a silver lining



It's a shame that four people died, but thankfully his despicable acts have meant there is no way he'll be president again.

I hope there are very few deranged people who will keep their delusion going, but if they do then their lives are going to become very bad.

The idiots calling for a civil war will cause gun control to get pushed through.

facebook and twitter have cancelled the president, it's about time everyone did. Just cut his electricity, mobile, phones etc & Irs could freeze his accounts. He'll soon realise just how powerless he really is. It would be just like the movie trading places....


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 7, 2021)

I don't see them invoking the 25th amendment, all its going to do is incite more violence, and you will probably see an actual coup take place, not the "coup" that the media or twitter is calling the riot yesterday like headless chickens.
Just imagine if all those 100000+ people came back to dc armed to the teeth, nobody wants that and trump has already said today there will be a peaceful transfer on the 20th.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> I don't see them invoking the 25th amendment, all its going to do is incite more violence, and you will probably see an actual coup take place, not the "coup" that the media or twitter is calling the riot yesterday like headless chickens.
> Just imagine if all those 100000+ people came back to dc armed to the teeth, nobody wants that and trump has already said today there will be a peaceful transfer on the 20th.


most likely not but 13days left... if Trump's keeps doing stupid shit again they will be forced to ( 100,000 lol nah it was not)
but just image if  25th is approved  or (less likely) Trump resigned, that moment Pence also resigns.. and Pelosi becomes the first Female President for 10 days... lol
That would be everything that the "patriots" did not want happen in a blink of the eyes because they couldn't hold their racist tendencies in check for fucking 14 days.


----------



## JaapDaniels (Jan 7, 2021)

nice to wake up and see there's a totally new Banana republic on the rise today, welcome US to that level of self disrespect, and to a life in denial.
from now on the road goes only downhill.


----------



## XDel (Jan 7, 2021)

I never liked Trump, was always a Ron Paul sort of guy, but if you guys have not been paying attention, it seems QUITE CLEAR to me that EVERYTHING the left has been accusing Trump of being or doing, they ARE or have been doing them selves.

As for this recent outbreak of violence...

...tis curious that the media is not calling this a Summer of Love also. Through out the riots they insisted that they were nothing more than peaceful protests, and continued to show us edited video clips over and over again to prove that point, and yet evidence from people's cell phones and the like proved otherwise. Corpses proved otherwise, peoples ruined businesses and lives  proved otherwise, and yet silence.

Now this happens, and this single act of violence tied to Trumps name despite ALL THE PEACEFUL campaigns that proceeded this, and suddenly violence is wrong!!!

Pretty sad for a guy who make the first steps to bringing Peace to the Middle East, Went after Big Pharma, After Media Censorship, Fired War criminal such as Madeleine Albright, and Henry Kissenger,* a*nd so much more. This guy was the unlikely hero, and the Banks, Media, and Business Elite ganged up on him like Hyenas! How can ANYONE not see this?!?

You may believe you were on the moral high ground during all this, but believe me, this is going to negatively impact us all!!!
Maybe when you grow up, you'll wise up.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

leon315 said:


> Have you read this and get what does it mean? there are on 2 different dimesion i can say, but quote from PELOSI "*A beautiful sight to behold" can be apply on US too, *except US is too proud to admit their failure.


No, I understand. I was just saying that it is, in fact, just as oppressive as people think (if not more so).
America's fucked up too, but for an entirely different reason and in an entirely different way- and more importantly, in a way that does at least mean it's _theoretically possible _for that change to happen without an all-out war or international interference.
China may be stable, but it's stable because it's a nigh-completely closed system and makes it illegal to do or say anything remotely in opposition to the government.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> Pretty sad for a guy who make the first steps to bringing Peace to the Middle East


meanwhile is flying US B-52H bombers over Iran right now as a means to provoke iran into a war since he lost.and has killed 300% more people with drone strikes.
Yeah I find that unlikely


----------



## XDel (Jan 7, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> meanwhile is flying US B-52H bombers over Iran right now as a means to provoke iran into a war since he lost.and has killed 300% more people with drone strikes.
> Yeah I find that unlikely



Trump is one man fighting against a machine man! Get REAL! Tell me what you would do since you have such a fine understanding of how this world operates. Is he supposed to make a phone call and tell everyone to just stop being evil?!?!??


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> I never liked Trump, was always a Ron Paul sort of guy, but if you guys have not been paying attention, it seems QUITE CLEAR to me that EVERYTHING the left has been accusing Trump of being or doing, they ARE or have been doing them selves.
> 
> As for this recent outbreak of violence...
> 
> ...


okay, let's break down this absolute mess of a post.
"are or have been doing them selves"- last time I checked, we haven't tried to start a freaking coup just because we don't like the results of a legitimate election.
protests vs riots- our protests actually WERE peaceful, and the only significant violence was either from counter-protestors (trump-nuts or Qers basically sneaking in to ruin things) or _*police.*_ meanwhile, what happened yesterday was outright terrorism.
peace in the middle east- yeah, Iran would say otherwise.
big pharma- oh for god's sake are you an antivaxxer too? all he's done medical-wise is blatantly ignore medical advice.
media censorship- only "censorship" he's suffering from is *preventing him from spewing lies and hate speech.*
fired war criminals- he basically just fired everyone that ever disagreed with him.
"unlikely hero"- he is the exact opposite of that. he is an extremely plausible and predictable villain, and he's been instigating and encouraging the violence since he lost.
"grow up, wise up"- yeah, go fuck yourself too.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 7, 2021)

smf said:


> It's a shame that four people died, but thankfully his despicable acts have meant there is no way he'll be president again.
> 
> I hope there are very few deranged people who will keep their delusion going, but if they do then their lives are going to become very bad.
> 
> ...



Why stop there, personally I dont think he should be allowed to buy groceries. He should be a social outcast forced to drink rainwater and live in the outlands. Has my social credit score improved yet?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> Trump is one man fighting against a machine man! Get REAL! Tell me what you would do since you have such a fine understanding of how this world operates. Is he supposed to make a phone call and tell everyone to just stop being evil?!?!??


Well, if that worked I'd have phoned him by now, because the real solution here is to not have a narcissistic nutjob as President.



shamzie said:


> Why stop there, personally I dont think he should be allowed to buy groceries. He should be a social outcast forced to drink rainwater and live in the outlands. Has my social credit score improved yet?


I know you're being sarcastic (and not very well at that- then again what did I expect from a guy that can't even bother to not be blatantly offensive with his post signature), but considering how many lives he's damaged or even ENDED as consequences of his despicable actions, *that outcome would be quite pleasing.*


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> Trump is one man fighting against a machine man!


Oh that's just rich. one man fighting the machine?
So... he's my issue.
What effectively changed under him that helped you?
did the federal minimum wage increase? No
Did he make taxes lower? Well, if you read the actual bill. Due to how it was written, it's a tax raise for the poor... Oh and it's about to happen now.
How did that trade war go? Last time I checked the United States was bleeding money from that.
Did he do anything about climate change? No. He left Paris accord.
Meanwhile funneling money, tax payer dollars, into his pocket.
He's not fighting the machine, he's apart of it.
And it's stupid to think otherwise.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> Trump is one man fighting against a machine man! Get *R*E*A*L! Tell me what you would do sin*c*e you have such a f*i*ne under*s*tanding of how this world operates. Is he supposed to make a phone call and *t*ell everyone to just stop being evil?!?!??


oh ok I understand


----------



## XDel (Jan 7, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh that's just rich. one man fighting the machine?
> So... he's my issue.
> What effectively changed under him that helped you?
> did the federal minimum wage increase? No
> ...




He's done a lot if you would pay close attention, especially in regards to the Military Machine and China. Things take time, and yes, he is part of a machine, but not the Globalist one, which is the one behind all these world wars. I am telling you...


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> Tell me what you would do since you have such a fine understanding of how this world operates. Is he supposed to make a phone call and tell everyone to just stop being evil?!?!??


1. actually have good policies people get behind. 
2. don't be a whinny brat if you loose an election.
3. Don't tell proudboys (or any hate group) to stand by.
4. don't ask for another country to interfere with your countries election
5. Don't funnel tax payer money and golf almost half the time when you are the leader of a country.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> He's done a lot if you would pay close attention, especially in regards to the Military Machine and China. Things take time, and yes, he is part of a machine, but not the Globalist one, which is the one behind all these world wars. I am telling you...


I... what... WHAT
are you blaming world wars on globalism?
you're blaming global-scale international divide, conflict and bloodshed... *on an ideology defined by "let's all work together across the globe"*
between all the shit you've spouted so far and the oh-so-wonderfully-well-informed quote you're using as your signature, I'm pretty sure you're the kind of guy to get banned from every social media platform under the sun including *4chan *until you finally come to rest at Parler.


----------



## XDel (Jan 7, 2021)

Good luck fellas!!!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> Things take time, and yes, he is part of a machine, but not the Globalist one


OHHHH 
*OH
SOMEONE'S BEEN SLURPING THE KOOL AID!*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 7, 2021)

shamzie said:


> This is true, for the past 4 years your side has done it. After November 3rd they stopped.


Nobody on "my side" did anything like what happened yesterday. Get your head out of your asshole.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

the worst part about the potential for all this to escalate into a full-blown second civil war on the 20th is that it won't even be for a new reason


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> the worst part about the potential for all this to escalate into a full-blown second civil war on the 20th is that it won't even be for a new reason


Civil war is unlikely. With the whole thing that happened at capital hill at least it seems to me gop realized authoritarianism is bad. (seems. I doubt believe in that statement fully) Though it is scary how many people are not with reality.
There's a higher chance of a revolution happening. Since really it's everyone against the rich, including the parties as this point.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

So it turns out that not only were capitol police incompetent in their handling of the mob yesterday, some of them may well have been complicit.  A number of videos floating around show police outside the capitol building lifting and separating barriers, allowing armed insurrectionists to come flooding in.  Presumably these officers were Trump loyalists, but regardless, they put every US congressman at risk yesterday, along with their fellow officers inside who quickly became overwhelmed.  Odds are that they weren't even aiming for the unarmed woman who ended up shot and killed.  Qualified immunity needs to be abolished yesterday, and a number of these pigs need to be slapped with terrorism charges.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> So it turns out that not only were capitol police incompetent in their handling of the mob yesterday, some of them may well have been complicit.  A number of videos floating around show police outside the capitol building lifting and separating barriers, allowing armed insurrectionists to come flooding in.  Presumably these officers were Trump loyalists, but regardless, they put every US congressman at risk yesterday, along with their fellow officers inside who quickly became overwhelmed.  Odds are that they weren't even aiming for the unarmed woman who ended up shot and killed.  Qualified immunity needs to be abolished yesterday, and a number of these pigs need to be slapped with terrorism charges.



this guy brings it up.
usually I avoid linking videos.. and go for more less biased sources. But this person complies it. Oh, and does a comparison.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 7, 2021)

Apparently 4 people died. Also, there were bombs found. There could have been fire on top of all of this. Lucky that didn't happen.


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## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

oh someone got doxed and then fired.... waiting for more?
*Texas attorney fired after posting videos from inside Capitol chaos*


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## LumInvader (Jan 7, 2021)

seany1990 said:


>


Charlie Kirk would get taken to the woodshed by several posters on here guaranteed.  His conspiracy peddling wouldn't stand a chance.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 7, 2021)

Donald trump banned from Twitter and Facebook indefinitely. Good riddance.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...tol-riots-b1783967.html?utm_source=reddit.com


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## JaapDaniels (Jan 7, 2021)

XDel said:


> He's done a lot if you would pay close attention, especially in regards to the Military Machine and China. Things take time, and yes, he is part of a machine, but not the Globalist one, which is the one behind all these world wars. I am telling you...


what no, he did absolutely nothing for this world, and nothing for US people, he just is a drama queen/baby, he never did anything good for no one, not even you.
it's time to open your eyes boy, and see the destruction, he didn't improve US, he actually destroyed what was left of it, it's now a lower grade then IRAN, Afghanistan... you let him lower you to the depts of no respect for whoever lives.
you letted him take chances for those in need for personal profit only.
there is and will never come a day that little baby trump does a thing good for anyone else but himself.


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 7, 2021)

omgcat said:


> Donald trump banned from Twitter and Facebook indefinitely. Good riddance.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...tol-riots-b1783967.html?utm_source=reddit.com


Should have happened 4 years ago.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

"indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks" wtf does that mean???


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## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

.ok looks like they going to force Pence's hand..25th might be happening

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



IncredulousP said:


> Should have happened 4 years ago.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> "indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks" wtf does that mean???


They stated banned 2 weeks until peaceful transition... or if it does not happen then indefinitely


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

omgcat said:


> Donald trump banned from Twitter and Facebook indefinitely. Good riddance.
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...tol-riots-b1783967.html?utm_source=reddit.com


_Instagram*_ and Facebook.
Twitter doesn't have the balls to actually ban him yet.
Still good news, but not Twitter as of now.


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## Joe88 (Jan 7, 2021)

"for at least 2 weeks"


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## LumInvader (Jan 7, 2021)

shamzie said:


> *Why stop there, personally I dont think he should be allowed to buy groceries.* He should be a social outcast forced to drink rainwater and live in the outlands. Has my social credit score improved yet?


“You know, if you want to go out and buy groceries, *you need identification*."  

- Donald Trump


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> I don't see them invoking the 25th amendment, all its going to do is incite more violence, and you will probably see an actual coup take place, not the "coup" that the media or twitter is calling the riot yesterday like headless chickens.



It would be a good opportunity to find all the deluded radicals who have been brainwashed, rather than letting them being sleeper agents subverting democracy.



shamzie said:


> Why stop there, personally I dont think he should be allowed to buy groceries. He should be a social outcast forced to drink rainwater and live in the outlands. Has my social credit score improved yet?



That still wouldn't be enough to make up for all his crimes against america from the last four years.
He needs to know that his actions have consequences.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> _Instagram*_ and Facebook.
> Twitter doesn't have the balls to actually ban him yet.
> Still good news, but not Twitter as of now.


Once Trump loses the official POTUS account, he'll no longer have the protection afforded to him by the office.  He'll have to follow Twitter's rules just like any other regular user, so at that point I give him three days, at most, before he gets himself perma-banned.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 7, 2021)

smf said:


> It would be a good opportunity to find all the deluded radicals who have been brainwashed, rather than letting them being sleeper agents subverting democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We should be worried that Trump wasn't held in contempt for letting his stooges run haywire in the courts.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Once Trump loses the official POTUS account, he'll no longer have the protection afforded to him by the office.  He'll have to follow Twitter's rules just like any other regular user, so at that point I give him three days, at most, before he gets himself perma-banned.


"T-minus 14... seconds."


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 7, 2021)

i don't know who needs to read this, but:
the sitting president repeatedly attempting a coup in his lame duck period is not something you should be celebrating


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 7, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> _Instagram*_ and Facebook.
> Twitter doesn't have the balls to actually ban him yet.
> Still good news, but not Twitter as of now.


Twitter is a company, they won't ban him. Twitter gets far too much attraction and profits from Trump posting. It would be an unwise business decision to ban him.

People don't check Trump's Facebook or Instagram. He might move to Parler or whatever right-wingers are using nowadays.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> i don't know who needs to read this, but:
> the sitting president repeatedly attempting a coup in his lame duck period is not something you should be celebrating


I don’t think Trump Supporters really care nor care to actually have a conversation. It’s kind of sad just how consumed their identity has become in being a Trump Supporter. Just looking through this thread alone one would swear that the vast majority of Trump Supporters in this thread are just the same person. It’s kind of scary and sad, not gonna lie.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 7, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> I don't see them invoking the 25th amendment



How about now...
*Pelosi and Schumer call for Trump's immediate removal from office*
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ax...mer-7be7bc55-64c9-48d7-9e9e-3a97d844afc9.html


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> We should be worried that Trump wasn't held in contempt for letting his stooges run haywire in the courts.


For what little it's worth, a new set of articles of impeachment have been officially drafted, so even if Senate Republicans fail to do their duty in convicting him, his record will forever be cemented as a one-term loser with complete disregard for the law.  He's also got a tsunami of civil and criminal charges waiting for him the moment Joe Biden is sworn into office.  I can think of few other modern political figures who deserve to spend the rest of their days in prison as much as Trump does.


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> For what little it's worth, a new set of articles of impeachment have been officially drafted, so even if Senate Republicans fail to do their duty in convicting him, his record will forever be cemented as a one-term loser with complete disregard for the law.  He's also got a tsunami of civil and criminal charges waiting for him the moment Joe Biden is sworn into office.  I can think of few other modern political figures who deserve to spend the rest of their days in prison as much as Trump does.


What about this, as punishment, lets leave him in a room with 500 Far left Liberals with weapons, His rape victims, and the families of those he killed during the COVID 19 pandemic, All with weapons! For an hour. Lets see how long he lasts in there.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

Driving_duck said:


> What about this, as punishment, lets leave him in a room with 500 Far left Liberals with weapons, His rape victims, and the families of those he killed during the COVID 19 pandemic, All with weapons! For an hour. Lets see how long he lasts in there.


I just want him to choke to death on a Big Mac as soon as possible, that'd be quite fitting for such a hedonistic buffoon.  I'd do anything to be among the first in the queue for shitting on his grave, but I'm sure that line will stretch for hundreds of miles.


----------



## Master X (Jan 7, 2021)

Honestly, the most hilarious thing about this is that these Trump supporters could be facing up to a decade in prison... All because of a executive order that Trump signed into law, to their cheers.

Hows that saying go again? Give someone enough rope, and they'll hang themselves with it?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Master X said:


> All because of a executive order that Trump signed into law, to their cheers.



Happen to know what executive order it was (or at least roughly when it was)? I don't believe I've heard this bit before so I'd just like to read into it a bit more for some perspective.

2020's been a hell of a year so there's a chance I might just be forgetting something


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> We should be worried that Trump wasn't held in contempt for letting his stooges run haywire in the courts.



Isn't that what impeachment is about, I'm not sure that the president can be found to be in contempt of court.



Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Twitter is a company, they won't ban him. Twitter gets far too much attraction and profits from Trump posting. It would be an unwise business decision to ban him.



I'm not sure that Trump is that important to Twitter and even if he was, some people do have morals & Twitter may have just been itching for his presidency to come to an end to ban him.



Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> He might move to Parler or whatever right-wingers are using nowadays.



At least then decent people will know what kind of loon he is, when he's on twitter and facebook he looks legitimate. He can only win if decent people vote for him.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I just want him to choke to death on a Big Mac as soon as possible, that'd be quite fitting for such a hedonistic buffoon.  I'd do anything to be among the first in the queue for shitting on his grave, but I'm sure that line will stretch for hundreds of miles.


Urinating on his grave might be a little more poetic.


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I just want him to choke to death on a Big Mac as soon as possible, that'd be quite fitting for such a hedonistic buffoon.  I'd do anything to be among the first in the queue for shitting on his grave, but I'm sure that line will stretch for hundreds of miles.



I don't want him to die, like ever. I want modern science (that he hates because it makes him look bad) to keep him alive forever so he can regret his life.

He can do some jail time along with his criminal family, that would be fun.


----------



## Master X (Jan 7, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Happen to know what executive order it was (or at least roughly when it was)? I don't believe I've heard this bit before so I'd just like to read into it a bit more for some perspective.
> 
> 2020's been a hell of a year so there's a chance I might just be forgetting something



It was a eo signed in relation to national monuments. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/capitol-rioters-prison-trump-executive-order-federal

In the scale of things it's pretty minor in the face of all the other stuff that they could be hit with, but still... More crap they can hit them with, the more likely they'll take a plea deal. And well, irony.


----------



## smf (Jan 7, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Once Trump loses the official POTUS account, he'll no longer have the protection afforded to him by the office.  He'll have to follow Twitter's rules just like any other regular user, so at that point I give him three days, at most, before he gets himself perma-banned.



Just sending his tweets to /dev/null so that he thinks he is posting, redacting key words, tagging every single one of his tweets with "the contents of this tweet are disputed" or putting them through a find and replace so it makes it look like he's saying something else (with a disclaimer that this is what they are doing) would be much funnier.

There is going to be a lot of ridicule for Trump for the rest of his days no matter what country he tries to hide in.

He better get used to it.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 7, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Urinating on his grave might be a little more poetic.


Could also take a dump on trump!


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Master X said:


> It was a eo signed in relation to national monuments.



Knew I was forgetting something  I remember this EO now. Thank you for the link!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

oh... oh no. press briefing is happening soon from the white house...
what garbage I'm I going to see now?
how much PR spin is going to happen?


----------



## Master X (Jan 7, 2021)

So, Facebook and Twitter weren't the only websites to tell Trump to take a hike. Shopify decided to pull down some of his bigger merch websites.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/07/shopify-pulls-donald-trump-stores-off-its-website/

And hey, White House is about to hold a press briefing. This'll be good.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Press briefing, for anyone interested


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

"we condemn it, and the president" or something along those lines
then why was trump during his rally said he would walk his supporters to the whitehouse?
No I don't buy that bullshit. The PR spin in the first 30 seconds is already acid

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

oh... and she already left
Wow...


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Well that was a waste of time, not that I expected any different.

tldr "we condemn this violence, this isn't what trump stands for, this was an attempted overthrow of our constitutional processes, we need to unite as a nation, goodbye."

So bold.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 7, 2021)

So in other words, a whole lot of PR.
If anyone is going to try to defend trump off the PR statement.
Should I remind you that in his rally a few hours before everything happened, he was stating it was stolen, and then essentially provoking them to go storm on capital hill
I do not believe this PR statement at all.


----------



## Master X (Jan 7, 2021)

Ok, what the fuck?

Trump was handing out Medals of Freedom today. To golfers. 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/...nstam-gary-player-presidential-medal-freedom/


----------



## notimp (Jan 7, 2021)

Youtube algo just fed me this one:


 And its too good not to pass along. Entirely off topic - but somehow, the emotional tale fits in this period of shock and awe.  Even with the second n word in the title.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 7, 2021)

Trump has destroyed the US Reputation.. China and Russia laughing .. America's first alright... Americans's First joke


----------



## Xzi (Jan 7, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Well that was a waste of time, not that I expected any different.
> 
> tldr "we condemn this violence, this isn't what trump stands for, this was an attempted overthrow of our constitutional processes, we need to unite as a nation, goodbye."
> 
> So bold.


Utter cowards.  Trump sent out a tweet just this morning thanking the terrorists, it's 100% what he stands for and always will be.



Lacius said:


> Urinating on his grave might be a little more poetic.


Porque no los dos?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 7, 2021)

Welp. Capitol Police chief resigning.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...ng-amid-criticism-over-pro-trump-mob-n1253389


----------



## notimp (Jan 7, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Welp. Capitol Police chief resigning.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...ng-amid-criticism-over-pro-trump-mob-n1253389


Allegations of them not having been prepared. But ultimately just a pansy.

Word on the ground was obviously not to escalate and let the whole thing wash over - at least after a certain point. (You've got those deaths.)

That made conservative public vewy angry - because they want those good Sheriff vs Bandit stories in their media. So someone has to take the fall.

Queue Capitol Police chied resigning.

Now the world is right again.

"Wait, what are we going to tell the public?"
"Well, we have to show some consequences."
"Hey, nobody needs Larry, how about we fire him?"
"No, make him resign, thats more dramatic."
"Great Idea."
"Great Idea."


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Welp. Capitol Police officer dead due to the actions of the "blue lives matter" crowd. The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't so embarrassing and disappointing.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/capitol-police-officer-dead-after-riot/index.html


----------



## notimp (Jan 8, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Welp. Capitol Police officer dead due to the actions of the "blue lives matter" crowd. The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't so embarrassing and disappointing.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/capitol-police-officer-dead-after-riot/index.html


The first idea I have, when one of my officers died, is also resigning.

Its just that this time, the higher ups are applauding me out of the door for actualy doing so...


Queue that guy failing upwards in 3, 2, 1.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 8, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Trump has destroyed the US Reputation.. China and Russia laughing .. America's first alright... Americans's First joke


Not just China and Russia the whole world is laughing at America and has been for the last 4 years or so.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Not just China and Russia the whole world is laughing at America and has been for the last 4 years or so.


well friends laugh at friends...but  China and Russia are the other bullies that you can't show weakness to


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 8, 2021)

djpannda said:


> well friends laugh at friends...but  China and Russia are the other bullies that you can't show weakness to


Morvoron profile page: Drinking Leftist tears. Wow wonder what's he gonna say about how his cult leader lost, probably that russia helped the demos or some shit.


----------



## Master X (Jan 8, 2021)

Hey, Trump finally put out a statement.

pic.twitter.com/csX07ZVWGe— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 8, 2021


"I immediately deployed the national guard"

Hahahaha, bullshit. Pence was the one who did that.

"My campaign pursued every legal avenue to contest the vote!"

Including, but not limited to, spending a hour personally begging Georgia's Secretary of State to 'find' another 11k votes to flip the state to you. 

"A new administration will be inaugurated on the 20th!"

Well, about time you admitted to reality. Still can't bring yourself to say that it'll be the Biden administration, but hey... It's a start.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 8, 2021)

notimp said:


> Youtube algo just fed me this one:
> 
> 
> And its too good not to pass along. Entirely off topic - but somehow, the emotional tale fits in this period of shock and awe.  Even with the second n word in the title.




How poetic.

"Video unavailable
This video contains content from Fremantle International, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."


----------



## ut2k4master (Jan 8, 2021)

Master X said:


> Hey, Trump finally put out a statement.
> 
> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1347334804052844550



"and to all of my wonderful supporters: i know you are disappointed but i also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning."
... wtf does he mean with that again? -.-


----------



## notimp (Jan 8, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> How poetic.
> 
> "Video unavailable
> This video contains content from Fremantle International, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."


- hrm...

youtube-dl (command line tool to the rescue) (should have an option to circumvent that - otherwise, try a youtube downloader site)


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 8, 2021)

ut2k4master said:


> "and to all of my wonderful supporters: i know you are disappointed but i also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning."
> ... wtf does he mean with that again? -.-


2024


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 8, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> 2024



I will say my vote was vewy, vewy diffewent between 2016 and 2020.


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 8, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> 2024


Are you that delusional?


----------



## SonowRaevius (Jan 8, 2021)

Master X said:


> Snip



He shouldn't apologize and then proceed to continue to do the very thing that incited the incident in the first place. 

Saying that it's a time to heal while still accusing the other side of misdoings is absolute bullshit as well.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2021)

They are looking into impeaching him twice.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

im personally waiting for NYC District AT to be calling in15 days ( unpardonable)


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 8, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> They are looking into impeaching him twice.


Personally, dont really care what they do, just embrass his name more and thats fine by me.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 8, 2021)

IncredulousP said:


> Are you that delusional?



Opinions aside, I'm not very confident they could bar him from the forthcoming election.


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 8, 2021)

I don’t see how he doesn’t end up catching charges 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 8, 2021)

I started a fun poll:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/will-trump-resign-or-will-he-get-the-boot-via-25th-amendment.580443/


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 8, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> 2024


When he’s in jail?


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 8, 2021)

brickmii82 said:


> I don’t see how he doesn’t end up catching charges
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383



Neat. Legal wrangling to nullify entire states' votes is rebellion in my book.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America is divided, but some people think that they are on the peaceful side when both sides do very dirty things.  I find the haughty, dishonest nature of people to be "anti-peace" "anti-reason" and "anti-democracy".  It's promoted throughout politics at large.  It just gets worse and worse.  Trump isn't the disease.  America is the disease.  He is just another symptom.  Looks like America will return to normal as it declares 4 new wars across the globe in order to "spread democracy".



You are a hypocrite and a disease. Everyone who hears you is worse off. You deluded unamerican troll. Both sides have issues but the Treasidiot T-Rump is a Nazi. He's the disease. Stop drinking the Kool Aid Tabbie! STOP!



Bladexdsl said:


> just when you thought the voteflakes couldn't get worse they go batshit crazy and try to take over the whitehouse



Voteflakes? You call both sides that word. You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.  
....  inconceivable! 



XDel said:


> I never liked Trump, was always a Ron Paul sort of guy, but if you guys have not been paying attention, it seems QUITE CLEAR to me that EVERYTHING the left has been accusing Trump of being or doing, they ARE or have been doing them selves.
> 
> As for this recent outbreak of violence...
> 
> ...




Heil Trump! Come on there. Nice propaganda
  You are amazing. Stop spreading your lies. The adults are speaking. Okay comrad?


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jan 8, 2021)

> Voteflake
> Anyone who protests the results of the 2020 US Presidential Election without any proof or evidence and refuses to recognize Joe Biden as the 46th President of the United States of America.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 8, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You are a hypocrite and a disease. Everyone who hears you is worse off. You deluded unamerican troll. Both sides have issues but the Treasidiot T-Rump is a Nazi. He's the disease. Stop drinking the Kool Aid Tabbie! STOP!



Sounds like projection to me.  You elected him.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2021)

Nooses too, because everything else wasn't bad enough.  Link


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Sounds like projection to me.  You elected him.



Wrong again Tabitha. As usual. So boring talking to you people.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 8, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Wrong again Tabitha. As usual. So boring talking to you people.


America elected Donald Trump.  If you aren't an American, then what's the point of calling me unamerican?

Sounds like you can't deal with the fact that the American political system has been an absolute disgrace for a long time, and Trump getting elected was a reflection of that..


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2021)

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that the onion was for the tear gas.

Link


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 8, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America elected Donald Trump.


The American people didn't. He wasn't the popular candidate. The electoral collage however did. Lost popular vote, won the collage in 2016


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 8, 2021)

Oh look even the cult members are disowning their so called great leader. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...itol-riots-trump-supporters-b1784318.html?amp


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 8, 2021)

IncredulousP said:


> Are you that delusional?


Not sure what the personal attacks on me have to do with anything but he will be planning another run in 2024, everybody knows it, theres also alot of rumors around he is going to launch his own news tv network after he leaves. 
He is not going to go away just because he is not in office, the media has an obsession, they will be covering anything and everything he does, say, ect.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

I hope all the people with weird sadistic daydreams in regards to the President won't be too disappointed when he doesn't get prosecuted, because it's highly unlikely that he will. I'm with @Joe88 on this one - he's not going to disappear in a magic puff of smoke. I don't know if he will be in a position to run in 2024 given his age, but he's definitely going to be in the picture, setting up a candidate at the very least.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 8, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> Not sure what the personal attacks on me have to do with anything but he will be planning another run in 2024, everybody knows it, theres also alot of rumors around he is going to launch his own news tv network after he leaves.
> He is not going to go away just because he is not in office, the media has an obsession, they will be covering anything and everything he does, say, ect.





Foxi4 said:


> I hope all the people with weird sadistic daydreams in regards to the President won't be too disappointed when he doesn't get prosecuted, because it's highly unlikely that he will. I'm with @Joe88 on this one - he's not going to disappear in a magic puff of smoke. I don't know if he will be in a position to run in 2024 given his age, but he's definitely going to be in the picture, setting up a candidate at the very least.



I also do agree that this isn't the last we see of Trump because the villain always comes back!


----------



## smf (Jan 8, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> Not sure what the personal attacks on me have to do with anything but he will be planning another run in 2024, everybody knows it, theres also alot of rumors around he is going to launch his own news tv network after he leaves.



His problem is that he needs the cray cray idiots who want a civil war and some misguided normal people to vote for him and he has pushed it too far to not alienate one group or other.



Foxi4 said:


> I hope all the people with weird sadistic daydreams in regards to the President won't be too disappointed when he doesn't get prosecuted, because it's highly unlikely that he will.



As he has betrayed his loyal thugs, I'd be more worried about a bullet to the back of his head.

I think it's reached a point where the republican party is going to be split in two, so that is some good to come out of it.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I hope all the people with weird sadistic daydreams in regards to the President won't be too disappointed when he doesn't get prosecuted, because it's highly unlikely that he will. I'm with @Joe88 on this one - he's not going to disappear in a magic puff of smoke. I don't know if he will be in a position to run in 2024 given his age, but he's definitely going to be in the picture, setting up a candidate at the very least.


Yeah...he's already having mini-strokes.  He doesn't exercise at all, and he eats fast food daily.  If he's not dead by 2024, he'll definitely be a drooling potato.  So regardless of whether he ends up in a physical prison or mental prison (or both), I'm still looking forward to it.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 8, 2021)

so anyone hear of trumps travel logs to epstines pedo farm?


Joe88 said:


> Not sure what the personal attacks on me have to do with anything but he will be planning another run in 2024, everybody knows it, theres also alot of rumors around he is going to launch his own news tv network after he leaves.
> He is not going to go away just because he is not in office, the media has an obsession, they will be covering anything and everything he does, say, ect.


beg to differ but i feel some vast law changes will be done to prevent him (or any president who incites violence/a coup) won't be able to run again and be barred from any political position for the rest of his life

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

sorry to burst your bubble foxii but https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-n...ews-friday/h_6730f3c932c438afbd93334423f1a680 and  after the riots republicans will go along this time not doing so is political suicide


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Am I too late to the party?

Georgia woman trampled to death in Capitol riot brought ‘don’t tread on me flag’ to protest

Trump says he won't be at Biden's inauguration; Obamas, Bushes will attend

Barr calls Trump conduct amid Capitol riot a 'betrayal of his office and supporters'

A QAnon promoter stormed the Capitol. Now, he's upset people are saying he's 'antifa'

Twitter permanently removes pro-Trump lawyer Lin Wood from platform

Confused Americans Think the Rioter's Name Who Stole Podium from US Capitol is 'Via Getty'

The stories write themselves.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 8, 2021)

and is WV lawmakers mostly idiots https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/poli...e-legislature-charged-capitol-riot/index.html


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> beg to differ but i feel some vast law changes will be done to prevent him (or any president who incites violence/a coup) won't be able to run again and be barred from any political position for the rest of his life


That's already in the US code, actually.  The party of "law and order" would have to completely disregard the law to allow Trump to run again in 2024.  Not to mention it'd be straight-up idiotic from a political perspective as well, what with Trump being the first president since 1932 to lose reelection, the house, and the senate.  Potentially losing a single presidential race seems like the much smarter choice in comparison.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America elected Donald Trump.  If you aren't an American, then what's the point of calling me unamerican?
> 
> Sounds like you can't deal with the fact that the American political system has been an absolute disgrace for a long time, and Trump getting elected was a reflection of that..



I did not elect Trump. I do not take ownership of everything America does. I doubt he won the last election either. Putin rigged 2016. You are so damn inconsistent in your logic and hate speech it's amazing.  Your BS about someone probably stole your identity to vote for Biden. Your fantasy world where only the facts you agree with are fact. You can't be this stupid. Just a troll. Go away troll.



Joe88 said:


> Not sure what the personal attacks on me have to do with anything but he will be planning another run in 2024, everybody knows it, theres also alot of rumors around he is going to launch his own news tv network after he leaves.
> He is not going to go away just because he is not in office, the media has an obsession, they will be covering anything and everything he does, say, ect.



He won't go away until his base vanishes. Stupidity never dies, it multiplies. He needs to be prosecuted.  We will see....



Foxi4 said:


> I hope all the people with weird sadistic daydreams in regards to the President won't be too disappointed when he doesn't get prosecuted, because it's highly unlikely that he will. I'm with @Joe88 on this one - he's not going to disappear in a magic puff of smoke. I don't know if he will be in a position to run in 2024 given his age, but he's definitely going to be in the picture, setting up a candidate at the very least.



Weird sadistic dreams is the platform Trump runs on! He's never going to be in power again. His base will find some other lie to follow. America needs to see the villain behind bars. Or else we will get an even worse monster in the Oval office. Lock him up and save whatever integrity the country has left. He'll be fine in prison. They love him there, right brother?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

smf said:


> As he has betrayed his loyal thugs, I'd be more worried about a bullet to the back of his head.
> 
> I think it's reached a point where the republican party is going to be split in two, so that is some good to come out of it.


I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest. He didn't betray his core base, he condemned those who engaged in violence and destruction of property, like he has every single time a demonstration of any kind turned foul. As per usual, the media are overblowing his statements way out of proportion. I'm old enough to remember these capers:


> "Let's make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And *if you see anybody from that Cabinet* in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you *get out and you create a crowd*. And you *push back on them*. And you tell them *they're not welcome anymore, anywhere*." - Maxine Waters, in reference to a restaurant owner's refusal to serve the then-White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders





> "You know, *there needs to be unrest in the streets* for as long as there’s unrest in our lives." - Annaya Pressley, in reference to the BLM protests





> "I just don't even know why there aren't *uprisings all over the country*. And *maybe there will be*, when people realize that this is a policy that they defend" - Nancy Pelosi, in regards to Trump's immigration policies, specifically detention



Of course I know what people will say - "they didn't actually call for violence", "they were being hyperbolic", "they meant to mobilise against the GOP", yada yada yada, and there's the truth to that, but that's not the point. The point is that if what Trump said was "egging on the base" when, in all factuality, he has always explicitly condemned violence, then we have a big problem with double standards in politics.

I think people's minds are more "made up" than they ever have, they know which "side" they want to be on, even if they occasionally need to eat crow for it. I'm sure there's a small minority of his base that feels discontent right now, but I don't care what they feel, and neither does the majority of his base. They'll treat those affected as sacrificial lambs of the cause and disown them, just like the Democrats disown aggressive BLM protesters as "rioters", violent Antifa's as "agitators" and so on.

Fact of the matter is that Trump is Teflon. He has always been Teflon, and he will continue to be Teflon. None of this will stick because everybody treats every political take as dishonest, or an exaggeration, or some kind of parlor trick. Even when the condemnation comes from the horse's mouth, in the long-term it will be dismissed as "just PR" and sweeped under the rug - people are more focused on long-term objectives, not temporary setbacks.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


>



You use your vote flake term to refer to both sides. You attack anybody without prejudice using that term. Once again I repeat what I said previously. You keep using that word I don't think you know what it means. Inconceivable! Stupid trendy word of the minute made up crap anyway. You're not even consistent with the definition you posted.


Guess the Princess bride reference was lost on you...


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2021)

Supporters are there, but if they keep thinking the election was rig, a good amount of them might never vote again.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Supporters are there, but if they keep thinking the election was rig, a good amount of them might never vote again.



Wouldn't that be nice? I hope they never vote again! What a Wonderful World this could be!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest. He didn't betray his core base, he condemned those who engaged in violence and destruction of property, like he has every single time a demonstration of any kind turned foul. As per usual, the media are overblowing his statements way out of proportion. I'm old enough to remember these capers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well... he's condemned violence when it benefits him to do so.
When it doesn't benefit him to condemn it, or it's detrimental to condemn it from his point of view...
"When the lootings start, the shootings start."
"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by."
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away." (read: if you don't do what I like, we'll hurt you)

Oh, and...
>just like the Democrats disown aggressive BLM protesters as "rioters", violent Antifa's as "agitators" and so on.
That's literally because when violence is employed, it goes from a peaceful protest to a riot. That's just... what these things mean.
Also, for the five trillionth time, antifa isn't an organization or even a _*movement.*_ It's an ideology. It's literally just "anti-fascist". That's it. (And yes, this makes all those quotes from braindead trump-nuts claiming antifa is some sort of _fascist organization_ a lot funnier and a lot dumber.) Are you against fascism? Congrats, you're antifa! The only reason antifa is synonymous with whatever bunch of Democrats the right currently want to scapegoat is because they basically have the notion of "political cooties"- even if they agree with us on something, they'll proceed to bash said thing and use it as a strawman _just because we agree on it._


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Well... he's condemned violence when it benefits him to do so.
> When it doesn't benefit him to condemn it, or it's detrimental to condemn it from his point of view...
> "When the lootings start, the shootings start."
> "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by."
> "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away." (read: if you don't do what I like, we'll hurt you)


Oh please, you and I both know what happened when the "stand back, stand by" clip was recorded - he was repeating what he was told to say word for word when cornered by the moderator asking him to condemn people he's already condemned repeatedly - it was nothing more than a misunderstanding. Regarding "looting and shooting", I have no moral qualms against business owners defending their property from violent rioters and looters, including with firearms. The last one is a statement of fact - when people feel cheated and think that the investigation of the claims was unsatisfactory, they most certainly feel discontent. That is not an encouragement of violence or rioting, or criminal trespass - he explicitly condemned all three. The problem with this kind of approach is that no amount of condemnation or appeasement will ever be enough - he could be condemning extremism every day of the week and his political adversaries would still remind people that he hasn't condemned anyone within the last 15 minutes.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest. He didn't betray his core base, he condemned those who engaged in violence and destruction of property, like he has every single time a demonstration of any kind turned foul. As per usual, the media are overblowing his statements way out of proportion. I'm old enough to remember these capers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



His base will take it as exaggeration. The rest of us see it as disgusting. He may get away like super-villans often do. But he will get his. Teflon scratches eventually.  Then all it does is stick.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh please, you and I both know what happened when the "stand back, stand by" clip was recorded - he was repeating what he was told to say word for word when cornered by the moderator asking him to condemn people he's already condemned repeatedly - it was nothing more than a misunderstanding. Regarding "looting and shooting", I have no moral qualms against business owners defending their property from violent rioters and looters, including with firearms. The last one is a statement of fact - when people feel cheated and think that the investigation of the claims was unsatisfactory, they most certainly feel discontent. That is not an encouragement of violence or rioting, or criminal trespass - he explicitly condemned all three.


1) He didn't condemn the Proud Boys publicly _once. _(Okay, he did _once..._ while also denying that he even knew much about who they are, which is clearly bullshit since this was right after he basically gave them an instruction.)
2) Considering that Trump had just tried to convince people that all the BLM protests were violent loot-riots, what he means is quite a lot worse.
3) ...So he's being very vaguely subtle. Thing is, what he's saying should not be a statement of fact because _*people should not be borderline brainwashed into believing that any outcome not benefitting them is illegitimate.*_
4) He's only condemned them when he's had an excuse to blame it on Democrats. Otherwise he's said basically nothing about it. (And yeah, he just did, but we all know he was reading off a teleprompter. There's no way he actually used that many words outside of his usual middle-school vocabulary on his own.)


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> His base will take it as exaggeration. The rest of us see it as disgusting. He may get away like super-villans often do. But he will get his. Teflon scratches eventually.  Then all it does is stick.


you can also Impeach the pan. throw it in the trash


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh please, you and I both know what happened when the "stand back, stand by" clip was recorded - he was repeating what he was told to say word for word when cornered by the moderator asking him to condemn people he's already condemned repeatedly - it was nothing more than a misunderstanding. Regarding "looting and shooting", I have no moral qualms against business owners defending their property from violent rioters and looters, including with firearms. The last one is a statement of fact - when people feel cheated and think that the investigation of the claims was unsatisfactory, they most certainly feel discontent. That is not an encouragement of violence or rioting, or criminal trespass - he explicitly condemned all three.



Lol.. recorded....lol  That's KOOL. I agree people should defend themselves but saying he condems anything besides the election is funny. 

He is no way condoning attacking his opposition.  But there they are if you want to stop them! 

He hands them the instructions and says not to do it with an implied wink. Lol.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> 1) He didn't condemn the Proud Boys publicly _once._


False, a basic Google search disproves that.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-proudboys-idUSKBN26N09B

See edit above - there's a point at which asking for the same condemnation repeatedly becomes ridiculous. What else do people want, for Trump to start condemning people by name, individually?


> 2) Considering that Trump had just tried to convince people that all the BLM protests were violent loot-riots, what he means is quite a lot worse.


Right, "only 7%" were violent riots and looting sprees. Question, how many Trump rallies did that? 0.1%? An even better question, how many, out of the hundred thousand+ people, breached the Capitol building versus how many were protesting peacefully outside, as is their right? Again, silly. For the record, if a demonstration planned to march past my business had an estimated 7% chance of burning it to the ground, I would board up all the doors and windows, just like hundreds of businesses did during the BLM protests - with good reason.


> 3) ...So he's being very vaguely subtle. Thing is, what he's saying should not be a statement of fact because _*people should not be borderline brainwashed into believing that any outcome not benefitting them is illegitimate.*_


Let's not pretend that those who stormed the building cared about the outcome - they were angry and wanted to vent, in the same brain dead way as "rioters" destroying their own neighbourhoods.


> 4) He's only condemned them when he's had an excuse to blame it on Democrats. Otherwise he's said basically nothing about it.


I would have to construct a long list of instances when he condemned violence, rioting or white supremacy, but it would take a considerable amount of time as he's done so more than any president in recent memory - usually violent protests were just excused as righteous anger.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2021)

Just read something about losing the Presidency, House and the Senate in 1 term. Hasn't been done since Herbert Hoover.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> False, a basic Google search disproves that.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-proudboys-idUSKBN26N09B
> 
> ...


.you should be like Trump and resign


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> False, a basic Google search disproves that.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-proudboys-idUSKBN26N09B
> 
> ...



Only seven percent? Are you sure? There's been BLM riots every single week in large cities around the country and every single week I've seen police being attacked, buildings burning to the ground, property being destroyed and every now and then a bunch of looters stealing stuff. There's literally tens of thousands of videos online that highlight the riots that have been going on for almost a year now. That includes this weekend in Portland ...

*Newsweek: Portland Begins 2021 With a Riot As Protesters and Police Exchange Firebombs and Tear Gas*

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/p...e-exchange-firebombs-and-tear-gas/ar-BB1coO7g

Scorecard:

Liberal Riots: Hundreds
Conservative Riots: 1


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

djpannda said:


> .you should be like Trump and resign


Imagine being upset about a fair and balanced take.

"Storming the Capitol building = bad. Burning down your own city = bad. Looting = bad. Double-standards = bad"."
"Plz resign."

Good chat.


Frankfort42 said:


> Only seven percent? Are you sure? There's been BLM riots every single week in large cities around the country and every single week I've seen police being attacked, buildings burning to the ground, property being destroyed and every now and then a bunch of looters stealing stuff. There's literally tens of thousands of videos online that highlight the riots that have been going on for almost a year now. That includes this weekend in Portland ...
> 
> *Newsweek: Portland Begins 2021 With a Riot As Protesters and Police Exchange Firebombs and Tear Gas*
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/p...e-exchange-firebombs-and-tear-gas/ar-BB1coO7g


That's the estimate. For every violent demonstration you see on TV or the Internet there's an overwhelming number of demonstrations that proceed without incident - you just don't get to see them because they're not as spicy as the violent ones. Fair is fair, not all protestors are violent, that's objectively true.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Any comparisons to BLM here are completely disingenuous.  This isn't a hypothetical, we know exactly what happened last year when BLM protestors were staying in their assigned area near the capitol building.  They were there for maybe half an hour before they were maced, pepper sprayed, and shot by rubber bullets to clear them out for Trump's upside-down bible photo op.

MAGA terrorists?  Capitol police let them walk right through the front fucking door, and allowed them to stick around for hours after curfew.  They practically rolled out the red carpet for them.  This proves correct what BLM has been saying all along: fascists of a feather flock together.  The police force has been compromised by white supremacists, and unfortunately not only in Washington DC.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Imagine being upset about a fair and balanced take.
> 
> "Storming the Capitol building = bad. Burning down your own city = bad. Looting = bad. Double-standards = bad"."
> "Plz resign."
> ...


oh I apologized I did not read anything you said before. Nor was my comment a result of what you stated about the failed Coup. 
I was talking in General.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 8, 2021)

2 impeachment trials in 1 year a nice record to close out trump's presidency


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

I away find it fun when the Mods have Convos with Burner accounts.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That's the estimate. For every violent demonstration you see on TV or the Internet there's an overwhelming number of demonstrations that proceed without incident - you just don't get to see them because they're not as spicy as the violent ones. Fair is fair, not all protestors are violent, that's objectively true.



I agree that most of the protesters don't turn to violence, but I didn't realize that it was only 7% that looted, committed arson, destroyed property, committed murders, etc ... It just seems sorta low considering the amount of coverage the violent types have been receiving for almost the past year. Although there's been hundreds of protests in multiple cities by the Liberals so maybe that number is factual. It's just asinine that people are attacking the Conservatives over 1 single riot yet dismissing the hundreds their side partook in.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> It's just asinine that people are attacking the Conservatives over 1 single riot yet dismissing the hundreds their side partook in.


Not to condone any form of violence, but people are more permissive of it when the underlying cause is just.  "I'm protesting/rioting because police are constantly brutalizing and killing unarmed citizens" is not the same as, "I'm protesting/rioting/endangering the lives of every US Congressman because I hate democracy."


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 8, 2021)




----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 8, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I agree that most of the protesters don't turn to violence, but I didn't realize that it was only 7% that looted, committed arson, destroyed property, committed murders, etc ... It just seems sorta low considering the amount of coverage the violent types have been receiving for almost the past year. Although there's been hundreds of protests in multiple cities by the Liberals so maybe that number is factual. It's just asinine that people are attacking the Conservatives over 1 single riot yet dismissing the hundreds their side partook in.


You do realize that a large chunk of the BLM protests only ended in violence because either cops flipped out and used more force on them than they did _on the violent-from-the-start Capitol rioters,_ or because there were people deliberately slipping in and starting shit, right?
Like that "Q Shaman" nutcase that got used as "evidence" that the Capitol riot was some kind of antifa conspiracy (even though antifa isn't an organization), but _*took offense to being called antifa.*_


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Any comparisons to BLM here are completely disingenuous.  This isn't a hypothetical, we know exactly what happened last year when BLM protestors were staying in their assigned area near the capitol building.  They were there for maybe half an hour before they were maced, pepper sprayed, and shot by rubber bullets to clear them out for Trump's upside-down bible photo op.
> 
> MAGA terrorists?  Capitol police let them walk right through the front fucking door, and allowed them to stick around for hours after curfew.  They practically rolled out the red carpet for them.  This proves correct what BLM has been saying all along: fascists of a feather flock together.  The police force has been compromised by white supremacists, and unfortunately not only in Washington DC.


You and I both know that this is an unfair assessment. Nobody here has Alzheimer's - we all remember when governors refused to call in the National Guard in spite of being urged to do so by the federal government - the National Guard was dispatched within moments when violence broke out on Capitol Hill. How come some protests are called a "summer of love" by democratic representatives, but not others? The comparison is perfectly applicable, I stand by what I said. Wrong is wrong, the excuse is irrelevant.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> You and I both know that this is an unfair assessment. Nobody here has Alzheimer's - we all remember when governors refused to call in the National Guard in spite of being urged to do so by the federal government - the National Guard was dispatched within moments when violence broke out on Capitol Hill. How come some protests are called a "summer of love" by democratic representatives, but not others? The comparison is perfectly applicable, I stand by what I said. Wrong is wrong, the excuse is irrelevant.


The comparison is still valid.
BLM protests, whether they were in any way violent or not, got sprayed and shot down in an instant.
The Capitol rioters basically got a free pass.



djpannda said:


> I away find it fun when the Mods have Convos with Burner accounts.


Or rather, the mods get to circlejerk with them! The timing on that guy joining that soon and then conveniently hopping in to pile more fuel onto the shitstained fire...


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 8, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Am I too late to the party?
> 
> Georgia woman trampled to death in Capitol riot brought ‘don’t tread on me flag’ to protest
> 
> The stories write themselves.


Her death could've been avoided if only TrumpTramplicans could read.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> we all remember when governors refused to call in the National Guard in spite of being urged to do so by the federal government


The governors knew that sending in the national guard just to prevent a bit of property damage would only escalate things further, and they were right.  Odds are that Trump knew this too, but he loves escalation, especially if he thinks it can be used as a political cudgel against the opposition.



Foxi4 said:


> the National Guard was dispatched within moments when violence broke out on Capitol Hill.


"Within moments" is far from accurate.  They approached Trump first, and he refused to give the order, so Pence had to do it.  National guard didn't arrive for at least 30 to 45 minutes after the capitol building had already been breached, and even when they did show up, they treated the mob of armed insurrectionists with kid gloves just like the capitol police.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 8, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that the onion was for the tear gas.
> 
> Link


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> You and I both know that this is an unfair assessment. Nobody here has Alzheimer's - we all remember when governors refused to call in the National Guard in spite of being urged to do so by the federal government - the National Guard was dispatched within moments when violence broke out on Capitol Hill. How come some protests are called a "summer of love" by democratic representatives, but not others? The comparison is perfectly applicable, I stand by what I said. Wrong is wrong, the excuse is irrelevant.



Yeah, bullshit on that one.

There's more nuance to it than just "riot bad".

Consider that there are numerous accounts of violence during BLM protests being instigated by right-wingers that joined in the protests solely to cause problems.

Consider that there are numerous accounts of violence during BLM protests being instigated by the police themselves.

Consider that the entire reason for the BLM protests are that Black people are tired of being murdered by police, and that people in general are tired of over-use of force by police.

Consider that the entire reason for the Capitol Hill insurrection was because a bunch of uneducated, brainwashed hicks were mad that their candidate lost, because of the lies he'd been feeding them over the past 4 years.

That's a shit take, dude.

Edit - there's also a bit of a difference between looting a Target and staging an armed invasion of a secure (lol) Federal building. Hopefully you realize that.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> there's also a bit of a difference between looting a Target and staging an armed invasion of a secure (lol) Federal building. Hopefully you realize that.


Should be on this Thread more...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*A Trump supporter called C-SPAN in tears to ask if her president had lied to her*
slowly we will start seeing this more as the kool-aid runs out


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 8, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:
			
		

> Yeah, bullshit on that one.
> 
> There's more nuance to it than just "riot bad".
> 
> ...



So @Foxi4 claims that breaking the law is bad, but you and @Xzi claim that it can be overlooked because you support the underlying cause. So you're both just criminals who are overlooking acts of violence because you support your side. So anything your side does gets a pass and if the other side does it they are in the wrong. You two are top candidates for the hypocrite of the year award.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *A Trump supporter called C-SPAN in tears to ask if her president had lied to her*
> slowly we will start seeing this more as the kool-aid runs out



I heard this live on the air. It was... kind of sad.

I can't imagine what it'd be like to have that moment of realization that you've been strung along for 4+ years all for nothing.

I also can't imagine how so many people will never have that realization.



Frankfort42 said:


> So @Foxi4 claims that breaking the law is bad, but you and @Xzi claim that it can be overlooked because you support the underlying cause.



Yeah, I'll come out and say it. If someone is protesting because they're tired of being killed due to the color of their skin, I can get behind that. If they're rioting for the same reason, I can sympathize.

I have no sympathy for idiot, uneducated hicks that are rioting because their candidate lost an election after he spent months claiming it'd be fraudulent.



Frankfort42 said:


> So you're both just criminals



Source?



Frankfort42 said:


> So anything your side does gets a pass and if the other side does it they are in the wrong



Not really what I said, so... source?



Frankfort42 said:


> You two are top candidates for the hypocrite of the year award.



Considering we're 8 days into the year, that's not a concerningly high bar.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I agree that most of the protesters don't turn to violence, but I didn't realize that it was only 7% that looted, committed arson, destroyed property, committed murders, etc ... It just seems sorta low considering the amount of coverage the violent types have been receiving for almost the past year. Although there's been hundreds of protests in multiple cities by the Liberals so maybe that number is factual. It's just asinine that people are attacking the Conservatives over 1 single riot yet dismissing the hundreds their side partook in.


Yellow journalists are after maximum shock value - always have been. The news channels have all been doom and gloom for decades - "a protest took place and nothing happened" doesn't sell ads, may as well switch back to the weather. They're a huge contributor to the political divide, the constant exaggeration of events and focusing solely on the extreme paints a vision of reality that's bleak and has little to do with what's right outside your window.


Sicklyboy said:


> Yeah, bullshit on that one.
> 
> There's more nuance to it than just "riot bad".
> 
> ...


I thought "they were just buildings" and "they had insurance" last time, what changed? I stand behind what I said - we should be so lucky to only ever have "insurrections" that politely leave when they're done displaying their discontent. One of the biggest problems in American politics right now, and a huge reason for why there's so much division in the country, is because neither side is willing to own up to things, say "mea culpa" and completely disown those who sow discord in society. There's always an excuse of some kind, "they're disenfranchised", "there's police brutality", "the election was stolen", there's this and that, and at the end of the day everybody's just covering for crazies. The same people who chanted ACAB in the summer are now cheering because a woman was shot dead right in the neck by law enforcement. It's those attitudes that are the problem, and people who excuse "burning down Targets" are contributing to the division that's only growing into a chasm between the two sides until they have nothing in common whatsoever. I have no trouble saying that both acts are wrong, and neither should anyone with any ounce of reason. We should stop white washing extreme behaviour and look at the log in our own eye too instead of just pointing fingers when it's the other side that's out of control.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 8, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So @Foxi4 claims that breaking the law is bad, but you and @Xzi claim that it can be overlooked because you support the underlying cause. So you're both just criminals who are overlooking acts of violence because you support your side. So anything your side does gets a pass and if the other side does it they are in the wrong. You two are top candidates for the hypocrite of the year award.


...no, they're just stating that context matters.
The context? The BLM protests that turned violent did so either because police escalated things, Trump supporters deliberately turned things violent or (in a small shred) plainly because there had been so many acts of violence towards them from the police in the past. Meanwhile, the Capitol riot happened because a narcissistic madman encouraged and incited violence against the government from his supporters in order to overturn a democratic election *because he'd rather bash our democracy to bits than admit he lost.*
Also, if you're going to spout such batshit absurd accusations, can you use your main account? Throwing strawmen and potshots at your political opponents _using a burner account_ is a sign of pure cowardice.



Foxi4 said:


> I have no trouble saying that both acts are wrong, and neither should anyone with any ounce of reason. We should stop white washing extreme behaviour and look at the log in our own eye too instead of just pointing fingers when it's the other side.


Alright, so stop using "both acts are wrong" as an excuse to justify the Capitol riots and ignore the blatant disregard for our democracy that Trump has demonstrated.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> I heard this live on the air. It was... kind of sad.
> 
> I can't imagine what it'd be like to have that moment of realization that you've been strung along for 4+ years all for nothing.
> 
> I also can't imagine how so many people will never have that realization.


I feel for their pain but its needed to get people to really realize how they got swindled  and I painfully and regrettably hope it will happen to much more of the Republican Party.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Alright, so stop using "both acts are wrong" as an excuse to justify the Capitol riots and ignore the blatant disregard for our democracy that Trump has demonstrated.


I'm not justifying anything - I am pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. I've started this conversation saying that storming the Capitol was idiotic and wrong, and maintain that opinion. We should be against any extreme behaviours like this across the board, not just when it's politically expedient.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So @Foxi4 claims that breaking the law is bad, but you and @Xzi claim that it can be overlooked because you support the underlying cause.


That's not what I said.  Read again and try again.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

Its going to be slow and long time to get Normal Americans to realized they been played by Republican leaders.. The others will have a harder time to face White nationalist tendencies


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not justifying anything - I am pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. I've started this conversation saying that storming the Capitol was idiotic and wrong, and maintain that opinion. We should be against any behaviours like this across the board, not just when it's politically expedient.


BLM protests wouldn't have any chance of turning violent if systemic racism and police brutality were tackled so that they didn't need to occur. How about we tackle things from that angle? And before you say it, the Capitol rioters did get their version of that angle- basically every corner of the election was scrutinized and determined to be devoid of any tampering anywhere near major enough to do anything to the actual results- but they didn't like that answer.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not justifying anything - I am pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. I've started this conversation saying that storming the Capitol was idiotic and wrong, and maintain that opinion. We should be against any extreme behaviours like this across the board, not just when it's politically expedient.



And I won't disagree with a single thing you said in this quote.

My point stands though, that while yes, rioting is wrong, I can VERY MUCH sympathize with riots that, when started by the group initiating the peaceful protests, are happening because people are tired of being shot and killed just because they've got more melanin than I do.

I have no sympathy for anything that happens to the dumbasses that staged an armed invasion of the nation's capitol because they couldn't convince enough of their own people to vote in the fucking election.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> BLM protests wouldn't have any chance of turning violent if systemic racism and police brutality *were tackled so that they didn't need to occur*. How about we tackle things from that angle? And before you say it, the *Capitol rioters did get their version of that angle*- basically every corner of the election was scrutinized and determined to be devoid of any tampering anywhere near major enough to do anything to the actual results- but they didn't like that answer.


As did the BLM protesters - Trump himself signed an executive order pushing for sweeping police reform in the wake of George Floyd's death. If you want to look further back than that, we'd have to start arguing statistics which go way beyond the scope of the thread - long story short, racial bias in policing is a controversial issue and year after year we see studies that fail to detect any. My point isn't that the BLM movement didn't have a reason to protest - the police does kill people, a lot, regardless of whether we look at white or black victims, and that's a big problem. I encourage them to exercise their first amendment right. Did they have incentives to loot Targets though? I don't think so. There's no excuse for rioting, looting, violence, arson or storming federal buildings. This *should* be uncontroversial, but we're all bending backwards to find excuses why "this particular case is different". No, it isn't - a small minority following clause X did Y, and we should disown them.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> As did the BLM protesters - Trump himself signed an executive order pushing for sweeping police reform in the wake of George Floyd's death. If you want to look further back than that, we'd have to start arguing statistics which go way beyond the scope of the thread - long story short, racial bias in policing is a controversial issue and year after year we see studies that fail to detect any. My point isn't that the BLM movement didn't have a reason to protest - the police does kill people, a lot, regardless of whether we look at white or black victims, and that's a big problem. I encourage them to exercise their first amendment right. Did they have incentives to loot Targets though? I don't think so. There's no excuse for rioting, looting, violence, arson or storming federal buildings. This *should* be uncontroversial, but we're all bending backwards to find excuses why "this particular case is different". No, it isn't - a small minority following clause X did Y, and we should disown them.



mmmm, I would second guess that one chief.
Since uh, Police has a history...
And it's not exactly good.
Unless your telling me you can beat all 23 sources he provided.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 8, 2021)

This one was Hilarious !! The WV delegate got arrested for his part in the Coup and he grandmother (legal Guardian) go to the police station with them .stated "thank you Mr Trump for invoking a riot"

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/WSAZChadHedrick/status/1347629406043443203


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> mmmm, I would second guess that one chief.
> Since uh, Police has a history...
> And it's not exactly good.
> Unless your telling me you can beat all 23 sources he provided.


Most certainly not in this thread since it would be entirely off-topic. The issue has been extensively studied and the statistics simply fail to show any significant, widespread racial bias in policing. In fact, some showed that, paradoxically, white suspects were more likely to be shot dead while black suspects were more likely to face excessive physical force instead. Unfortunately studies that support or disprove the idea of racial bias in policing can't be trusted, they're not representative since there's really no nation-wide system or database that tracks instances of police shootings/use of excessive force - researchers have to rely on small sample sizes from select few precincts which makes it difficult to determine how widespread the issue really is. The total numbers aren't even the point here - the point is that there are deeper underlying issues which lead to those fatal arrests, and we're missing the forest for the trees by focusing on race rather than resolving decades-long problems with insufficient training and the over-militarisation of the police. No amount of racial sensitivity seminars will stop them from using military gear if we keep giving them military gear. They're trained to be enforcers, so that's what they're doing, and that's a problem. You'd think they wouldn't need armored carriers, but they have those and then some, mostly due to the government offloading their military surplus. It's a huge mess, but personally I think it has less to do with the specter of "white supremacy in police departments" and more with a growing disconnect between the police and the people they're supposed to protect and serve.


----------



## Aneki (Jan 8, 2021)

Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.

After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.https://t.co/CBpE1I6j8Y— Twitter Safety (@TwitterSafety) January 8, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Jan 8, 2021)

Aneki said:


> Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1347684877634838528


It's about fucking time.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 8, 2021)

Aneki said:


> Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1347684877634838528


Fucking finally...


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 8, 2021)

Aneki said:


> Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1347684877634838528



Now THAT is funny.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 8, 2021)

Aneki said:


> Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1347684877634838528


Guess I was wrong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

He really has no outlet to talk to his supporters anymore. He's gone on Insta, Facebook, and Twitter now.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Aneki said:


> Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1347684877634838528


Thank god, looks like it will possible to avoid seeing any mention of him once he's out of office after all.  He's free to waste his time and money on "Trump News Network" if he wants, only the geriatrics still watch cable news.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2021)

I guess Parler is next.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 8, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> I guess Parler is next.


Good, because nobody pays attention to that.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 8, 2021)

The /r/DonaldTrump subreddit was also banned earlier today.

The president is just straight up not having a good time.

So anyway...


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 8, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> I guess Parler is next.


Apple talking about removing Parler from its app store!


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 8, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Apple talking about removing Parler from its app store!


Was just about to comment on that lol


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 8, 2021)

This is turning out to be such an awesome new year! HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Prepare for shit posting directly from the POTUS account, which I very much doubt they'll delete or suspend.

https://www.twitter.com/potus


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> False, a basic Google search disproves that.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-proudboys-idUSKBN26N09B
> 
> ...



He rarely outright condemns anything to the right. "Extreme or not" And please do construct a list. It doesn't need to be anything extensive. Find 10 times that he condemned white supremacy without being bothered about it for the entirety of the interview. They ask him 10 or 15 times and he says things like "Of course I condemn it." Never says "Of course I condemn white supremacy. Open your eyes man! He refers to something called "it". Ambiguous terms to Signal his base that he's not serious about the question. Like he always signals to them. The evil doers are over there! They're the ones you want to go after. They're the ones you should go after. Go home!

What flavor is that Kool-Aid that everybody keeps drinking? It must be really good to hide what's really in it LOL


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Prepare for shit posting directly from the POTUS account, which I very much doubt they'll delete or suspend.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/potus


You mean the account that transfers to Biden in 12 days?  I doubt they'll have an issue temporarily suspending it if he goes batshit crazy on there.



Ericzander said:


> The /r/DonaldTrump subreddit was also banned earlier today.
> 
> The president is just straight up not having a good time.
> 
> So anyway...


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> The /r/DonaldTrump subreddit was also banned earlier today.
> 
> The president is just straight up not having a good time.
> 
> So anyway...


the_donald fans have long since moved to their own dedicated website anyway, the writing was on the wall for years.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> the_donald fans have long since moved to their own dedicated website anyway, the writing was on the wall for years.


r/the_donald moved on their own though. They were only banned by Reddit after the migration.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> the_donald fans have long since moved to their own dedicated website anyway, the writing was on the wall for years.



I wish they would all go to that site and stay there.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> r/the_donald moved on their own though. They were only banned by Reddit after the migration.


There was no point in staying on Reddit once the site's "trusted moderators" were shoved into the sub, nothing of value was lost, all things considered.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 8, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> the_donald fans have long since moved to their own dedicated website anyway, the writing was on the wall for years.


Perfect! They can all go back into hiding!


----------



## Xzi (Jan 8, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> I wish they would all go to that site and stay there.


One-stop shopping for the FBI/NSA when they're looking for extremists and persons of interest.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 8, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Perfect! They can all go back into hiding!


Only thing is it's going to get so bad in that vacuum. We're going to see some true evil come out of there!


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 8, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Only thing is it's going to get so bad in that vacuum. We're going to see some true evil come out of there!


And that's the problem... That's exactly how terrorists are born! @Xzi said it right.... One stop shop!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Great shame. Thankfully people have archived all of the greatest hits from what was easily the funniest Twitter account in history.





Thank you for your service. Salute. Bald eagle.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

I'm pretty sure that if he can't get back in the office he's going to become one of the most vicious terrorist we've ever seen. He's going to lead his Legions of thugs into doing all sorts of crazy shit... anything to still have an influence somehow. Even if it's influencing the end. That's probably been his main goal anyway the entire time! Fire sale! Come Russia come China by us up quick!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Holy shit is Parler down? FBI IS NO JOKE LOL


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Great shame. Thankfully people have archived all of the greatest hits from what was easily the funniest Twitter account in history.
> 
> View attachment 241044
> Thank you for your service. Salute. Bald eagle.



He really is a shame. Shameful what he did. And shameful he's not behind bars... or worse! Treason carries the death penalty after all.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Holy shit is Parler down? FBI IS NO JOKE LOL



So soon? There must have been some real terrorism going on! No surprise. I thought they would leave the honey pot open for quite a bit longer. They can't possibly have enough people to throw in jail yet.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> I'm pretty sure that if he can't get back in the office he's going to become one of the most vicious terrorist we've ever seen. He's going to lead his Legions of thugs into doing all sorts of crazy shit... anything to still have an influence somehow. Even if it's influencing the end. That's probably been his main goal anyway the entire time! Fire sale! Come Russia come China by us up quick!



Trump will become American's Villain! He will build his underground evil lair under Mar-a-Lago!


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.



Lol. Yeah, sure. No surprise why you got banned! LOL. And don't confuse followers with supporters! Most of those people probably just want to see what the hell he was going to say next. It's easy to keep an eye on the devil when he posts his every move! I can't believe someone still backs him up. Sorry.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


Actually the problem is that he incited terrorists to destroy and disrupt the capitol building.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Trump will become American's Villain! He will build his underground evil lair under Mar-a-Lago!




Lol. I was thinking he would take over the Cheeto factory and turn it into his lair. He rubs that shit on his face every morning anyway!


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Actually the problem is that he incited terrorists to destroy and disrupt the capitol building.



As opposed to the Iranian leader, an actual terrorist regime. Who's been allowed to spew his bile for years with no repercussion, or what about all the Chinese accounts doing the same thing. Stop talking shit behind your bias, he was removed because he's no longer president and the liberal networks all decided to purge him to stop it happening again.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> As opposed to the Iranian leader, an actual terrorist regime. Who's been allowed to spew his bile for years with no repercussion, or what about all the Chinese accounts doing the same thing. Stop talking shit behind your bias, he was removed because he's no longer president and the liberal networks all decided to purge him to stop it happening again.


welp this one is removed from reality.
that's a sad yikes


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

As time goes on, I'm starting to believe he will lock himself up in the bunker and kick and scream that he doesn't want to go home on January 20th!


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> He didn't betray his core base, he condemned those who engaged in violence and destruction of property, like he has every single time a demonstration of any kind turned foul.



It doesn't need to be his core base, they on their own can't make him president.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


copium is real.
Yeah let's continue supporting a guy who essentially lead terrorist to over throw a capital of a democracy, not like the guys rhetoric help caused the whole riot at capital hill


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> welp this one is removed from reality.
> that's a sad yikes



Because the leader of Iran, a terrorist country isn't spewing hate all over Twitter? Oh that's right he is but he isn't a conservative, he isn't Donald Trump so It's okay.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far.


When you're so far right that Fox News is now "liberal" because they won't perpetuate the lie that the election was stolen.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> copium is real.
> Yeah let's continue supporting a guy who essentially lead terrorist to over throw a capital of a democracy.


Couldn't have said it better. Thanks!


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Twitter is a company, they won't ban him.



You're sure about that?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


I legit can't tell if you're trolling/baiting or are genuinely batshit insane.
(Considering your sig makes clear you're also perfectly fine with being an inconsiderate ass, probably the latter.)


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords



There is a point where decent people have to take a stand against criminals and deprive them of rights they have abused.
One day you might figure that out.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

@shamzie no, but you can get reported instead


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> @shamzie no, but you can get reported instead



It's okay, I identify as a liberal. Obviously im untouchable and you didn't get the memo.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Because the leader of Iran, a terrorist country isn't spewing hate all over Twitter? Oh that's right he is but he isn't a conservative, he isn't Donald Trump so It's okay.


This isn't even defending Trump. Just more whataboutism.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Because the leader of Iran, a terrorist country isn't spewing hate all over Twitter? Oh that's right he is but he isn't a conservative, he isn't Donald Trump so It's okay.



Leaders are given more leeway, Trump won't be a leader for much longer and his instability is getting people nervous.

If he wasn't so bat shit crazy then he'd still be on Twitter, even if he does run again.

If he calms down then they are doing him a favor, if it pushes him to being even more bat shit crazy by going to all the right wing social media and starting his own channel then it does us a favor.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> This isn't even defending Trump. Just more whataboutism.



The leader of a terrorist country being allowed to spew his hate all over twitter is "whataboutism" this is your brain on liberalism.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 9, 2021)

Aneki said:


> Trump's twitter account has been permanently suspended.
> 
> https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1347684877634838528


I actually started laughing in real life! It’s about fucking time they did this!


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> The leader of a terrorist country being allowed to spew his hate all over twitter is "whataboutism" this is your brain on liberalism.



What does it have to do with soon to be a civilian Trump, after he lost a lawful election because too few people wanted him to be president?


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> The leader of a terrorist country being allowed to spew his hate all over twitter is "whataboutism" this is your brain on liberalism.


Yes, it is whataboutism. We are talking about Trump, who you still haven't actually defended. Not that he can be defended.


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 9, 2021)

I think Twitter is banned in Iran


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

brickmii82 said:


> I think Twitter is banned in Iran



https://twitter.com/hassanrouhani?lang=en-gb

Although to be fair, I haven't read it all. The top entries don't really look like spewing hate.

Trump appears sub human in comparison.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


 you banned? NOoo Too bad Parler is down too
Any way it looks like Apple got involved with Parler too 
*Apple gives right-wing social media network Parler a 24-hour ultimatum*


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> https://twitter.com/hassanrouhani?lang=en-gb
> 
> Although to be fair, I haven't read it all. The top entries don't really look like spewing hate.
> 
> Trump appears sub human in comparison.


I thought they banned it at some point last year. ICR, it was a lot to process. And agreed, I don't see anything particularly inflammatory either.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

In one of Donald Trumps final tweets, he appears to have conceded the validity of the election (he obviously rounded it up, its weird he'd put all the zeros as it makes it look like he is claiming exactly that figure).
_
“The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!”_
_

*
Joe Biden
Democratic Party*
306 51.4% 81,283,485

*

Donald Trump
Republican Party*
232 46.9% 74,223,744 _

He can't guarantee that they won't be disrespected ;-)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



brickmii82 said:


> I thought they banned it at some point last year.



It may well be, but I am sure he can get round the ban as he is the leader.
As could Trump if he hadn't just imploded.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


That fake victimhood. Trump had a long record of violating Twitter’s TOS and his most recent actions empowered a group of domestic terrorists to attack Capitol Hill. Trump had used his Twitter to create more unrest and attempt to overthrow an election by spreading conspiracy theories. Trump should have been banned or deactivated his Twitter long before it got this far.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> As opposed to the Iranian leader, an actual terrorist regime. Who's been allowed to spew his bile for years with no repercussion, or what about all the Chinese accounts doing the same thing. Stop talking shit behind your bias, he was removed because he's no longer president and the liberal networks all decided to purge him to stop it happening again.



Wtf? Just because other people deserve to be kicked off the platform doesn't mean Trump doesn't! What the fuck is wrong with you?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Is Ted Cruz next to get Twitter banned?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Is Ted Cruz next to get Twitter banned?



The thought of them kicking more good Christian people like Trump from Twitter is appalling.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> The thought of them kicking more good Christian people like Trump from Twitter is appalling.


God forbid any of these "Christians" could have a press conference instead of using Twitter


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Because the leader of Iran, a terrorist country isn't spewing hate all over Twitter? Oh that's right he is but he isn't a conservative, he isn't Donald Trump so It's okay.


Guys we got a crazy one, send him to a mental hospital, or we could make a trump mental hospital and sent every trump surrporter  their. That would work.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

What is wrong with these people... Check out the bullsh*t on Q messenger.
FBI and all other government agents need to be on their toes!

Reports that there will be more "riots" or attacks!


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Wtf? Just because other people deserve to be kicked off the platform doesn't mean Trump doesn't! What the fuck is wrong with you?


It's called the tu quoque fallacy and sometimes it's all angry people have to work with.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

LOL.... Trump just tried to post on POTUS twitter account and got blocked ￼￼￼omg!!!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> LOL.... Trump just tried to post on POTUS twitter account and got blocked ￼￼￼￼ omg!!!


what did he say?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> what did he say?


It was just on the news. They didn't post what he tried to say, just said that twitter has just posted that they have blocked Trump trying to post from the POTUS account. Lol

Just like a child that his parents take away his phone... He goes and uses someone else's... Lol


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

I just read Trumps tweets... ..I guess  25th might be enacted after all


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 9, 2021)

Oh I see Parler has been booted from the google play store.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-55598887


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2021)

*comes back to the dumpster fire*

....look how the turntables.




djpannda said:


> I just read it... 25th might be enacted after all



Not happening. His once yes-men / women are jumping off the sinking ship like rats and because they are jumping ship, they are no longer a part of his cabinet....

TLDR; they aren't invoking the 25th to avoid conservative ire and are just quitting instead.  It's looking more like impeachment since more (R)'s have voiced support for that


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> What is wrong with these people... Check out the bullsh*t on Q messenger.
> FBI and all other government agents need to be on their toes!
> 
> Reports that there will be more "riots" or attacks!


Uhm... This is a screenshot from 8kun, from the 5th of January. The demonstration he's talking about? It's the one you already saw. Ron Watkins is the son of Jim Watkins, 8chan/2channel operator and a prominent Qverse figure. Keep in mind that anything coming from the Qverse should be treated with a pinch of salt. A yuge one. Like, the size of an entire salt mine. I wouldn't worry too much about them, they're completely bonkers.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> I just read it... 25th might be enacted after all


Do you have a source?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Uhm... This is a screenshot from 8kun, from the 5th of January. The demonstration he's talking about? It's the one you already saw. Ron Watkins is the son of Jim Watkins, 8chan/2channel operator and a prominent Qverse figure. Keep in mind that anything coming from the Qverse should be treated with a pinch of salt. A yuge one. Like, the size of an entire salt mine. I wouldn't worry too much about them, they're completely bonkers.


...you know a lot of about ..huh?.....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Do you have a source?


sorry I meant I read Trump tweet ... just my bad grammar


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ...you know a lot of about ..huh?.....


They're a fascinating breed of crazy, it's a great rabbit hole to explore.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> They're a fascinating breed of crazy, it's a great rabbit hole to explore.


"explore" ........ok ?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

*Trump tried tweeting from the official POTUS account despite Twitter's ban, but the tweets were immediately removed*

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/trump-tweets-from-potus-account-after-suspension-they-got-deleted-2021-1?amp


He tried to say the following... : "Trump railed against Twitter, Democrats, and Section 230, and said he was considering building his own social media platform"


----------



## Nicky P (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> what did he say?


He violated the twitter ban evasion policy


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> "explore" ........ok ?


Anyone who manages to somehow whip up a religion out of a controversial imageboard is de facto interesting. I like to know what I'm looking at, and since this post is very plainly time stamped, and the person posting it is listed by name, it's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together. Watkins has been a controversial figure for a long time, Q is his latest grift, and it's hard to call the Q level of insanity anything short of fascinating. In any case, don't get baited, kids - this isn't a message about an "upcoming uprising", you can relax in that regard. Watkins will probably end up in prison eventually, like many other "channers" before him. There's a reason why those sites get shut down all the time - they tend to be rather unsavoury.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Liberals own every media outlet going, conservatives were stupid to let it get this far. They just deleted an account with 82,000,000 followers. This was an attack on everybody who dares disagree with their liberal overlords, It's too late now, they own all the outlets. This was the natural conclusion as soon as he was robbed of the election. Can't let him ever get back, 4 years of falsehoods and constant attacks. Hopefully he starts his own TV network, im sure he'll move to Parler. I deleted my facebook years ago and Twitter banned me for wrongthink ages ago. Make no mistake, this is a purge, if you don't bowdown to your liberal overlords they will come for you too, time to practice your political correctness.


Twitter is a private company. Advocating for violence is against their TOS. Therefore he was banned. Rouhani is not advocating for violence (he hasn't even Tweeted since September).


----------



## Deleted member 546892 (Jan 9, 2021)

I’m just a tiny bit concerned for the safety of America


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> what did he say?


Edit: Thumbnail version instead because the image is huge.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> .


 I read it also, thanx


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> .


What an asshole lol


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> *Snip!*


Thanks bud, I couldn't find what he actually said anywhere.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> .


He's either:
A) creating his own social media platform or
B) moving to Parler
Leaning towards A.


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 9, 2021)




----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> He's either:
> A) creating his own social media platform or
> B) moving to Parler
> Leaning towards A.


I might be leaning towards A as well. I have to admit, I haven't even heard of Parler until today. I'm sure a Trump-run one would gain a lot of popularity early on before a mass exodus. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pulls a Bloomberg and creates his own media network, including his own social network. Whether it'll be successful is a different story.

In unrelated news, I really wish that Parler was publicly traded. It would be a great stock to short right now.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe88 said:


>


Lindsey Graham is so full of sh*t because Twitter is a private company. A company that makes you accept their terms and conditions BEFORE you start to use THEIR platform... It's not "the people's platform" it's not "the government's platform" it's a private platform.... They can do what they want!


"
David Begnaud
@DavidBegnaud
·
2h

To people who will say that Twitter is violating the presidents first amendment right - by suspending him permanently from the platform - the first amendment protects you from the government infringing on your free speech. Twitter is a private company and sets its own rules"

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1347689008562802688?s=20


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe88 said:


>


Twitter has as much of a right to enforce their company policies as the bakery in Colorado did. Sounds like a double standard to me...


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

brickmii82 said:


> Twitter has as much of a right to enforce their company policies as the bakery in Colorado did. Sounds like a double standard to me...


I absolutely DO NOT agree with the "baker in Colorado"... And that's ridiculous that you even bring that up.


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> I absolutely DO NOT agree with the "baker in Colorado"... And that's ridiculous that you even bring that up.


It doesn't matter who agrees with it. It was ruled upon and set a legal precedent. On top of that it was a conservative legal precedent involving private company conduct. Lindsay Graham is setting a double standard by this statement, against his own platform.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 9, 2021)

"Everything that I don't like is Communism!"


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

brickmii82 said:


> Twitter has as much of a right to enforce their company policies as the bakery in Colorado did. Sounds like a double standard to me...


...yea private companies have a Constitutional right to creat and allow sedition and a coup...


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ...yea private companies have a Constitutional right to create and allow sedition and a coup...



No they have a Constitutional right to not be a platform for it. I think you may have missed the point here.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

I swear... The stuff some people come up with on this site!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> *Snip!*


He's not wrong. In the absence of 230 protections social media as we know it cease to exist - companies like Facebook or Twitter would drown in lawsuits based on third-party content they host overnight, they would have to bear direct responsibility for each and every file on their vast servers. No amount of moderators or AI can sift through this much information, that's precisely why 230 is *the* legislation that allows them to operate. More specifically, the section shields social media from civil liability and enables them to moderate content any way they deem fit so far as it is done in "good faith", with the exception of content that violates federal law or infringes upon copyright (in both cases the content must be removed promptly, the the extent their technology allows them to do so, and they're obligated to cooperate with law enforcement) . The removal or alteration of 230 effectively means direct civil liability. The "Good Samaritan" element of the law has always been vague and controversial.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 9, 2021)

These people are retarded, if they strip 230 out because Twitter was mean, their own platforms will get shutdown immediately. Parlor can only exist because section 230 exists.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Their is NO CHANCE that 230 would ever be removed or modified! So good luck with that!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

"Passed at a time when Internet use was just starting to expand in both breadth of services and range of consumers in the United States,[2] Section 230 has frequently been referred as a key law that has allowed the Internet to flourish"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230

Without this law, there would be NO social media! So 230 will NEVER change.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

"The Ayatollah can tweet, but Trump can't."

You'd think this would trigger at least one single moment of self-reflection, but nah, there's always whataboutism to fall back on, and always somebody else to blame.  Party of personal responsibility my ass.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

I don't think it should be entirely removed, but I can see it being altered or replaced accordingly. Websites *obviously* cannot be held legally liable for the content posted by their users - that's asinine. It would be as if a landlord was legally responsible for the illegal activity of their tennant. With that said, 230 is a protection the government bestows on the private entity, and as such something can be demanded in exchange. The government protects tenants from unlawful eviction, it protects their privacy, I don't see how that same level of protection shouldn't be afforded to social media users. Providing a free an open platform in exchange for protection from civil liability sounds like a great compromise to me, so long as no federal law is broken by the users - if that is the case, chase the user, by all means.


----------



## laudern (Jan 9, 2021)

Can anyone tell me what Biden's plan is for boarder protection along the southern boarder that will be different to what Trump has done?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

soo sad ... 80 million got robbed from hours of entertainment, yo*u know Trump just screaming at himself.
*





--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



laudern said:


> Can anyone tell me what Biden's plan is for boarder protection along the southern boarder that will be different to what Trump has done?


not calling them rapist and murders.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't think it should be entirely removed, but I can see it being altered or replaced accordingly. Websites *obviously* cannot be held legally liable for the content posted by their users - that's asinine. It would be as if a landlord was legally responsible for the illegal activity of their tennant. With that said, 230 is a protection the government bestows on the private entity, and as such something can be demanded in exchange. The government protects tenants from unlawful eviction, it protects their privacy, I don't see how that same level of protection shouldn't be afforded to social media users. Providing a free an open platform in exchange for protection from civil liability sounds like a great compromise to me, so long as no federal law is broken by the users - if that is the case, chase the user, by all means.


Because then you get people like.. Uhmmm DONALD TRUMP that entice violence and division!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



laudern said:


> Can anyone tell me what Biden's plan is for boarder protection along the southern boarder that will be different to what Trump has done?


‘The number of people coming to the US border was at historic lows by the end of the Obama administration. Under President Trump, they increased to levels not seen since 2007, and only last month came back down to the monthly level seen at the end of the Obama administration,’

https://americasvoice.org/press_rel...igration-and-a-liar-on-immigration-ad-claims/


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

laudern said:


> Can anyone tell me what Biden's plan is for boarder protection along the southern boarder that will be different to what Trump has done?


If it's going to be anything like Obama's border protection plan, expect deportations, a lot of them. You just won't get to hear about them on the news much. Right now he's calling them "a big mistake", but you know how those things go.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/time-biden-calls-obama-deportations-big-mistake-69010125

In case people's memory isn't great on the Obama-Biden duo, they've deported more immigrants than any administration before, they're also "the ones who built the cages" in the first place. Not that it matters at this stage, at least long sections of the border wall were finally renovated and much of the shoddy "fencing" was replaced, so he's picking up the border in a better state than he left it in.


White_Raven_X said:


> ‘The number of people coming to the US border was at historic lows by the end of the Obama administration. Under President Trump, they increased to levels not seen since 2007, and only last month came back down to the monthly level seen at the end of the Obama administration,’
> 
> https://americasvoice.org/press_rel...igration-and-a-liar-on-immigration-ad-claims/


Sounds like Trump's America is such a horrible place that everyone wants in. Who knew?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If it's going to be anything like Obama's border protection plan, expect deportations, a lot of them. You just won't get to hear about them on the news much. Right now he's calling them "a big mistake", but you know how those things go.
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/time-biden-calls-obama-deportations-big-mistake-69010125
> 
> In case people's memory isn't great on the Obama-Biden duo, they've deported more immigrants than any administration before, they're also "the ones who built the cages" in the first place. Not that it matters at this stage, at least long sections of the border wall were finally renovated and much of the shoddy "fencing" was replaced, so he's picking up the border in a better state than he left it in.


yea... but did not call 652 million people rapist and murders...


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If it's going to be anything like Obama's border protection plan, expect deportations, a lot of them. You just won't get to hear about them on the news much. Right now he's calling them "a big mistake", but you know how those things go.
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/time-biden-calls-obama-deportations-big-mistake-69010125
> 
> ...


Because the separation of thousands of migrant parents from their children is better!?  Whatever!


----------



## laudern (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> yea... but did not call 652 million people rapist and murders...




So your saying the media simply won't misquote Biden and let him do the exact same thing?  ok gotcha.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

laudern said:


> So your saying the media simply won't misquote Biden and let him do the exact same thing?  ok gotcha.


I'm saying ... "will not call 652 million people rapist and murders"


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> yea... but did not call 652 million people rapist and murders...


Neither did Trump. He was specifically talking about illegal immigrants crossing the border, many of whom do have criminal histories. Trump also suggested that many women get raped during their trek across the border, which is consistent with many independent reports. Amnesty International estimated that 6 in 10 women crossing the border experience sexual violence by the hands of the coyotes who smuggle them across. Drug smuggling and gun smuggling are huge issues too. You can find his wording uncouth, but these issues are very real and they do affect communities along the border. As he said, "some are good people", but the influx of crime is undeniable. In fact, I'm sure the majority of them are simply looking for a better life on the other side, who can blame them when their communities are controlled by ruthless cartels. Sadly, there's a reason why the country has an immigration process, and immigration reform should be Biden's first priority in order to quickly and efficiently separate "the dreamers" from "the troublemakers".


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Incase some of us are interested about educating themselves: 

*THE BIDEN PLAN FOR SECURING OUR VALUES AS A NATION OF IMMIGRANTS*

*https://joebiden.com/immigration/*


Sorry, but I've tried to find "official" information on Trumps immigration policy but failed to find any.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

look at more of these "patriots"
*Feds say police found a pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol insurrection as wide-ranging investigation unfurls*
did Trump ever get public hanging reinstated


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Guys, Trump keeps evading the Twitter ban.  I wonder if they'll ban this account?


----------



## laudern (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> look at more of these "patriots"
> *Feds say police found a pickup truck full of bombs and guns near Capitol insurrection as wide-ranging investigation unfurls*
> did Trump ever get public hanging reinstated



You tell us. You seem to be in the misinformation propaganda machine.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

laudern said:


> You tell us. You seem to be in the misinformation propaganda machine.


Their is absolutely NO misinformation about this! Here's another link :

https://whnt.com/news/falkville-man...n-and-gasoline-bombs-at-d-c-rally-police-say/

"The guns and explosives were found in Lonnie Leroy Coffman’s truck as Capitol police conducted a sweep after finding a possible pipe bomb near the National Republican Club, according to Coffman’s arrest affidavit."


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

*"You will not tweet with a goat 
or in a boat 
You will not tweet in a box
or with a fox
 You will not tweet on a train
 or in the rain
 You will not tweet in a house
 or with a mouse
 You will not tweet here or there
 You will not tweet Anywhere"*
that made me laugh


----------



## Nicky P (Jan 9, 2021)

Now a bunch of insane people are tweeting with the hashtag "Wearetrump" and changing their profile pictures to trump. For some reason i've noticed its alot of people that aren't American... Are there people in other countries that worship Trump?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 9, 2021)

"Personal, return! Go, POTUS!"
Trump called back Personal and sent out POTUS!
Twitter used Pursuit!
It's super effective!
Personal fainted!
POTUS... also fainted somehow!
Trump blacked out!


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

Nicky P said:


> Are there people in other countries that worship Trump?


No, but there are a number of foreign leaders and foreign governments with an investment in Trump.  Investments that paid off big time on January 6th.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Nicky P said:


> Now a bunch of insane people are tweeting with the hashtag "Wearetrump" and changing their profile pictures to trump. For some reason i've noticed its alot of people that aren't American... Are there people in other countries that worship Trump?


Trump has gotten more rallies here than I've ever seen for our local politicians.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Trump has gotten more rallies here than I've ever seen for our local politicians.


So your not in Japan...
Fascinating
So what happened to everything about you saying that you don't have a horse in the United States


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So your not in Japan...
> Fascinating
> So what happened to everything about you saying that you don't have a horse in the United States


@tabzer is not a liar ........
.........................
........................
...........................
........................
...................
........


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 9, 2021)

Based on what's going on, even if Trump made some kind of social media it would just get blocked.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> @tabzer is not a liar ........
> .........................
> ........................
> ...........................
> ...


Hey I'm I crazy for pointing that strange contradiction out?



tabzer said:


> Trump has gotten more rallies *here*


If he did live in Japan, he wouldn't say "here" he would say there. And we already know how affluent in English he is. So I highly doubt such a small mistake would pass through like that. Now it's getting interesting, see didn't you state you were Canadian?
I thought it was awfully strange for a canadian to live in Japan. I didn't question it too much, since it could happen. But now with this inconstancy that you just threw at us?
Starts to make a whole lot more sense.
And even more knowing that you live in the states. Since that "here" statement is a full blown admission at that point.
How many webs of lies are you spinning tabz?


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Their is NO CHANCE that 230 would ever be removed or modified! So good luck with that!



I hate to tell you this but some Democrats are also eying section 230 as well...



White_Raven_X said:


> Sorry, but I've tried to find "official" information on Trumps immigration policy but failed to find any.



That's because there isn't any. "stay the fuck out if you're not white and don't speak English" is his plan


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> I hate to tell you this but some Democrats are also eying section 230 as well...



Why would they be? Are you the one just saying that or do you have an article or something backing that up?

*"Section 230 is a perfect example of why most technologies are better governed by applying simple, general principles on a case-by-case basis." *

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.protocol.com/amp/biden-trump-section-230-repeal-2648877307

Twitter for example, is doing exactly what they should be doing by suspending Trumps account as per section 230. Please read and understand the section before commenting further.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Why would they be? Are you the one just saying that or do you have an article or something backing that up?


I think Joe Biden himself is a pretty good source.


> "The idea that it’s a tech company is that Section 230 should be revoked, immediately should be revoked, number one. For Zuckerberg and other platforms [...] It should be revoked because it is not merely an internet company. It is propagating falsehoods they know to be false. [...] I, for one, think we should be considering taking away [Facebook's] exemption that they cannot be sued for knowingly engaged on, in promoting something that's not true." - Joe Biden
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/...section-230-communications-decency-act-revoke


I hope you're ready for Joe Biden and his cabinet deciding what is and isn't true on the Internet, since that's the implication behind what he's saying. Something, something, Ministry of Truth, something...


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I think Joe Biden himself is a pretty good source.
> I hope you're ready for Joe Biden and his cabinet deciding what is and isn't true on the Internet, since that's the implication behind what he's saying. Something, something, Minstry of Truth, something...


I have read and heard about Biden wanting to "change/edit" section 230...but I tell you right now, if anyone changes section 230 to make the owners of those social media platforms liable for what people post, then ALOT more accounts will be suspended and or removed. It's not going to happen because then twitter will just shut its doors. I can't imagine the amount of court cases they would be involved in because of what Tabzer or anyone else would post!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> I have read and heard about Biden wanting to "change/edit" section 230...but I tell you right now, if anyone changes section 230 to make the owners of those social media platforms liable for what people post, then ALOT more accounts will be suspended and or removed. It's not going to happen because then twitter will just shut its doors. I can't imagine the amount of court cases they would be involved in because of what Tabzer or anyone else would post!


I can't imagine it either. I'm salivating just thinking how high that number would be.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

Yeah I think the only change that need be made to section 230 is an exemption for violent speech/hate speech.  Basically any speech that would be deemed criminal IRL should also be criminal online, and if it isn't removed in a timely manner, THEN the platform should be held liable for it.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yeah I think the only change that need be made to section 230 is an exemption for violent speech/hate speech.  Basically any speech that would be deemed criminal IRL should also be criminal online, and if it isn't removed in a timely manner, THEN the platform should be held liable for it.


I agree with that. They definitely have the labour power and AI power to ensure that those items be removed in a timely manner. But as I mentioned, they will never change the fundamental section 230.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yeah I think the only change that need be made to section 230 is an exemption for violent speech/hate speech.  Basically any speech that would be deemed criminal IRL should also be criminal online, and if it isn't removed in a timely manner, THEN the platform should be held liable for it.


Protection from civil liability is a privilege granted by government, it should be afforded to those companies in exchange for public service - guaranteed freedom of speech and expression, they should all be truly free and open platforms for the public. Many forms of expression, including calls for violence, are already not protected by the first amendment, so I think it's a perfectly sufficient metric for what is and is not acceptable. If it's illegal IRL, it should be illegal online, and vice versa - if it's legal IRL then it should be perfectly acceptable online.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Protection from civil liability is a privilege granted by government, it should be afforded to those companies in exchange for public service - guaranteed freedom of speech and expression, they should all be truly free and open platforms for the public. Many forms of expression, including calls for violence, are already not protected by the first amendment, so I think it's a perfectly sufficient metric for what is and is not acceptable. If it's illegal IRL, it should be illegal online, and vice versa - if it's legal IRL then it should be perfectly acceptable online.


Hey, look at that! I can finally agree with something you say.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Hey, look at that! I can finally agree with something you say.


I have an issue with your estimation of what is and is not a call for violence, but we can still share a sentiment for a free and open Web, independent of draconian terms of service and ridiculous speech limitations.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If it's illegal IRL, it should be illegal online, and vice versa - if it's legal IRL then it should be perfectly acceptable online.


Absolutely, and that's the same reason there should be no controversy when a platform like Parler gets kicked off Google Play and the Apple Store for failing to moderate entirely.  I expect any Trump-founded social media platform will share in that total lack of moderation, and share the same fate as a result.


----------



## Nicky P (Jan 9, 2021)

Is trump trying to make a social media for him and his supporters?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So your not in Japan...
> Fascinating
> So what happened to everything about you saying that you don't have a horse in the United States


https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/12/26/national/qanon-japan-trump/


I am totally in Japan, lol.  How did you misunderstand what I was saying?

https://www.google.com/search?q=japan+trump+rally

Click video to see how impressive it is.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Absolutely, and that's the same reason there should be no controversy when a platform like Parler gets kicked off Google Play and the Apple Store for failing to moderate entirely.  I expect any Trump-founded social media platform will share in that total lack of moderation, and share the same fate as a result.


You have to consider the fact that Twitter and Facebook have the capital required to deploy AI and handle a lot of the moderation automatically - platforms like Parler (which I personally think is a grift) and Gab (which I'm more partial to, but it's still too janky for me to join) moderate manually with limited manpower, mostly basing decisions on reports. In all factuality, I would almost prefer if those decisions were always up to a human instead of a machine, it makes the network more organic, but that simply doesn't scale well unless you let everyone just run wild.

Besides, the Apple and Google Store issue is more a matter of anti-trust than 230 - it's very clear to me that the two companies are simply putting up a hedge around their marketplaces despite knowing full-well that those emerging platforms, or any emerging platform for that matter, will not have the capabilities of Twitter or Facebook overnight. The last thing I want is a sanitised Web, but since we live in closed app ecosystems now a new service doesn't even get a chance to grow if you don't have an app. Scale needs to be a factor. If anything, smaller platforms deserve *more* protection than Facebook or Twitter since they don't have the means to moderate content nearly as effectively.

If 230 isn't modified, and quickly, the future of free exchange of thoughts and ideas lies in encrypted and/or distributed platforms like Mastodon where every peer is a part of the network. I am Spartacus. Can recommend, actually - Mastodon servers are fun. Be careful not to play into Zuck's or Jack's hands too much - you might live to regret it when they look for a new boogeyman.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

Nicky P said:


> Is trump trying to make a social media for him and his supporters?


That was the last thing he said on the POTUS twitter account before those tweets were removed, yes.



Foxi4 said:


> platforms like Parler (which I personally think is a grift) and Gab (which I'm more partial to, but it's still to janky for me to join) moderate the platform manually with limited manpower, mostly basing decisions on reports.


These are platforms which were created specifically to host speech that would get you banned basically anywhere else.  Their systems for moderation were handicapped on purpose from the very beginning.



Foxi4 said:


> Be careful not to play into Zuck's or Jack's hand too much - you might live to regret it when they look for a new boogeyman.


Not a problem for me, I don't use Facebook or Twitter.  I'm also not against the idea of Facebook, Google, Apple, and others being hit with anti-trust lawsuits, but I suppose that's a slightly different matter.


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 9, 2021)

Wouldn’t be surprised if Trump made a GBAtemp account


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Wouldn’t be surprised if Trump made a GBAtemp account


We should be so lucky.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Wouldn’t be surprised if Trump made a GBAtemp account


He doesn't even know how to use Twitter outside of the app, I seriously doubt he's gonna come here looking for info on how to hack his Switch.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> We should be so lucky.


How long before he gets banned here too?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> He doesn't even know how to use Twitter outside of the app, I seriously doubt he's gonna come here looking for info on how to hack his Switch.


Trump is obviously an Xbox guy. Series X is tall and thick, like a big beautiful wall, and it cannot be hacked because it's the best - designed in America by the best people. It has the best games and the best controller which is just the right size for his correctly-sized hands.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Trump is obviously an Xbox guy. Series X is tall and thick, like a big beautiful wall, and it cannot be hacked because it's the best - designed in America by the best people. It has the best games and the best controller which is just the right size for his correctly-sized hands.


Omg, this is so disturbing in so many ways! Lol


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> He doesn't even know how to use Twitter outside of the app, I seriously doubt he's gonna come here looking for info on how to hack his Switch.


I do remember @Donald_Trump


----------



## omgcat (Jan 9, 2021)

oops

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...?utm_medium=s1&utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=tw

not a good look.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

omgcat said:


> oops
> 
> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...?utm_medium=s1&utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=tw
> 
> not a good look.


They can smell what's coming. Anyone who was a part of Trump's cabinet will be ostracised, so they're off the train while they can still save their careers. There are already calls in the media to never hire "these people" ever again, they know exactly what they're doing. Smart, if duplicitous.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

brickmii82 said:


> Twitter has as much of a right to enforce their company policies as the bakery in Colorado did. Sounds like a double standard to me...



The bakers said no gays.  Twitter said no hate speech..  yeah. So similar? No. I don't think so.



Foxi4 said:


> I don't think it should be entirely removed, but I can see it being altered or replaced accordingly. Websites *obviously* cannot be held legally liable for the content posted by their users - that's asinine. It would be as if a landlord was legally responsible for the illegal activity of their tennant.



Censorship is shit. Redactions. Altering posts. Sounds very.... Trumpish.. kinda 1942.. farenheit 451...  And landlords should be held accountable for their Tenants actions if it's obvious and in the open.  Then complacency is accessory to the crime. 



White_Raven_X said:


> I swear... The stuff some people come up with on this site!



Sometimes I forget it's acne ridden, mountain dew addicted, virgin shut in children for the most part aound here. Probably  shouldn't even have political threads here. Most of you were born during the GW administration...


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> They can smell what's coming. Anyone who was a part of Trump's cabinet will be ostracised, so they're off the train while they can still save their careers. There are already calls in the media to never hire "these people" ever again, they know exactly what they're doing. Smart, if duplicitous.



You can count on politicians to be politicians.



mikefor20 said:


> Censorship is shit. Redactions. Altering posts. Sounds very.... Trumpish.



Curious about this.  How did Trump censor people?


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> They can smell what's coming. Anyone who was a part of Trump's cabinet will be ostracised, so they're off the train while they can still save their careers. There are already calls in the media to never hire "these people" ever again, they know exactly what they're doing. Smart, if duplicitous.



Everyone can smell that stink on them. It's what turds do... stink. They should be flushed for their part in this embarrassment of an administration  Duplicity is their specialty.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> You can count on politicians to be politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> Curious about this.  How did Trump censor people?



Where did I say Trump? And even this site has a bad habit of changing posts. Hence the 1942 farenheit 451 comment.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Where did I say Trump?



Look at where I quoted you.  It sounds like you are implying that Trump censors people.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Anyone who was a part of Trump's cabinet will be ostracised, so they're off the train while they can still save their careers.


Hopefully none of them can save their careers, they stuck it out with him for four years.  Too late to try to renounce their loyalty now.



Foxi4 said:


> Trump is obviously an Xbox guy. Series X is tall and thick, like a big beautiful wall, and it cannot be hacked because it's the best - designed in America by the best people. It has the best games and the best controller which is just the right size for his correctly-sized hands.


It's also big and black, so it would trigger his inferiority complex and scare him at night.  Joycons are the only controller which can possibly make his hands appear somewhat normal-sized, and he can pick Toad in Mario Kart.  If he was gonna buy any system it'd definitely be Switch, but we all know Trump is a lamer, not a gamer.  I'm okay with it if Barron wants to create an account here, though.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Look at where I quoted you.  It sounds like you are implying that Trump censors people.




Foxi said to remove or alter it. Read what I quoted. say that's a very Trump attitude. Kinda early 40's german.....didn't say Trump. Now that you mention  it....  (I don't want to get redacted and will,for sure ,if I say too much. I know from experience.) But.. you know.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Foxi said to remove or alter it. I say that's a very Trump attitude. Kinda early 40's german.....



I still don't understand.  What did Trump do that equals that?


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I still don't understand.  What did Trump do that equals that?



He has his news censored. Makes his own fantasy world where every body loves him and calls everyone else a liar? For starters  Hmmmm. You do the same to be completely honest. I already done told you Tabbie.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> He has his news censored.



This.  What you mean by this?  It's actually pretty amazing, to me, how much of his opposition that he didn't shut down in an authoritarian manner.  Seems like that would of happened, being a fascist.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> The leader of a terrorist country being allowed to spew his hate all over twitter is "whataboutism" this is your brain on liberalism.


Can you please name this "terrorist country"?
How many wars has it started in the last 50 years?
Are their soldiers encircling American territory?


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> This.  What you mean by this?  It's actually pretty amazing, to me, how much of his opposition that he didn't shut down in an authoritarian manner.  Seems like that would of happened, being a fascist.



Trump has news articles selected for him that a positive toward him and skips the rest. He has no power to stop them. No matter how fascist he is. This is America, Tabbie. That would be too blatant even for the dictator in chief. But he has it redacted so that it won't shatter his little tiny shriveled...ego.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> This.  What you mean by this?  It's actually pretty amazing, to me, how much of his opposition that he didn't shut down in an authoritarian manner.  Seems like that would of happened, being a fascist.


An incompetent attempt at a fascist coup is still an attempt nonetheless.  Trump spent the majority of his presidency railing against freedom of the press, the first amendment, and section 230.  Four more years of that and we would no longer have democracy in the US.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Trump has news articles selected for him that a positive toward him and skips the rest. He has no power to stop them. This is America Tabbie. That would be too blatant even for the dictator in chief. But he has it redacted so that t won't shatter his little tiny shriveled...ego.



Are you talking about retweeting articles that he likes?  That's not censorship.  If, in America, a person cannot be a dictator, then Trump is not actually a dictator.  Maybe he wants to be, but it's besides the point.



Xzi said:


> An incompetent attempt at a fascist coup is still an attempt nonetheless.  Trump spent the majority of his presidency railing against freedom of the press, the first amendment, and section 230.  Four more years of that and we would no longer have democracy in the US.


He called the liars, he didn't criticize their freedom to do so, afaik.

If he was trying to lead a coup, how come he was still giving a speech when it happened?  Did he give those people special instructions?


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Are you talking about retweeting articles that he likes?  That's not censorship.  If, in America, a person cannot be a dictator, then Trump is not actually a dictator.  Maybe he wants to be, but it's besides the point.
> 
> 
> He called the liars, he didn't criticize their freedom to do so, afaik.




I know hes not a dictator.  He doesn't know he not a dictator, but I do. He has his news censored for him. They prepare it for him and remove anything upsetting for him to read to prevent him from having a bad day. His papers and screens must have so many holes and missing info. Kinda like the temp from time to time. It's like if I blocked everyone like you. Every thread would be full of holes. But a lot more pleasant. Then he believes it... scary.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Section 230 allows content providers to censor their users without recourse.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> He called the liars, he didn't criticize their freedom to do so, afaik.


He suggested we "open up libel laws" so that the press could be sued just for repeating his own words.  He outright said that everybody who believes in freedom of speech, AKA the first amendment, were "foolish people."

Those are just a couple examples off the top of my head, I'm sure I could pull up fifty more or so with some research.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> He has his news censored for him



What does this mean??  Can you explain it.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Section 230 allows content providers to censor their users without recourse.



So did the Third Reich so what?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> What does this mean??  Can you explain it.



The news he reads. Dammit. You are awesome at the baffle with bullshit approach.  No more explaining anything. Google it.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> The news he reads. Dammit. You are awesome at the baffle with bullshit approach.  No more explaining anything. Google it.


To be fair, putting yourself in an information bubble is not the same thing as censoring other people.  Trump did want badly to censor his critics throughout his presidency, but AFAIK he was never truly successful in that endeavor.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> He suggested we "open up libel laws" so that the press could be sued just for repeating his own words.  He outright said that everybody who believes in freedom of speech, AKA the first amendment, were "foolish people."
> 
> Those are just a couple examples off the top of my head, I'm sure I could pull up fifty more or so with some research.



Ok.  "_“We’re losing a lot of people because of the Internet, and we have to do something. We have to go see Bill Gates and a lot of different people that really understand what’s happening. And we have to talk to them. Maybe in certain areas closing that Internet up in some way [audience member cheers]… Somebody will say, ‘oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.’ These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people. We have a LOT of foolish people."_

I admit this is my first time hearing about it.  And I don't understand the context, so I don't know how I feel about it.




tabzer said:


> Section 230 allows content providers to censor their users without recourse.





mikefor20 said:


> So did the Third Reich so what?



So you are saying that section 230 shares traits with the Third Reich, and therefore, should not be a concern?  Strange...  I don't understand you.




Xzi said:


> To be fair, putting yourself in an information bubble is not the same thing as censoring other people.  Trump did want badly to censor his critics throughout his presidency, but AFAIK he was never truly successful in that endeavor.


TBH, I don't see where he tried.  Maybe he floated some ideas?


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Ok.  "_“We’re losing a lot of people because of the Internet, and we have to do something. We have to go see Bill Gates and a lot of different people that really understand what’s happening. And we have to talk to them. Maybe in certain areas closing that Internet up in some way [audience member cheers]… Somebody will say, ‘oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.’ These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people. We have a LOT of foolish people."_
> 
> I admit this is my first time hearing about it.  And I don't understand the context, so I don't know how I feel about it.


I'm not sure how context really matters here, but IIRC the context was his reaction to negative things posted about him on the internet.  It wasn't the first or last time he attacked the first amendment, but I don't think he ever referred to it by name, probably because he's never actually read the constitution.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I'm not sure how context really matters here, but IIRC the context was his reaction to negative things posted about him on the internet.  It wasn't the first or last time he attacked the first amendment, but I don't think he ever referred to it by name, probably because he's never actually read the constitution.



In real life, shouting 'fire', when there is none, in a crowded area endangers people.  So it is probable that he was referring to a scenario that could be likened to that, though you might not agree with it.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So you are saying that section 230 shares traits with the Third Reich, and therefore, should not be a concern?  Strange...  I don't understand you.



I am saying the Third Reich loved to alter omit and redact things. And no Tabitha, being a Nazi is not okay.

I'm going to bed before the wifey falls asleep. She is fun. Later ladies.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> In real life, shouting 'fire', when there is none, in a crowded area endangers people.  So it is probable that he was referring to a scenario that could be likened to that, though you might not agree with it.


You just posted the quote, that's very clearly not what he was referring to.  For someone who "speaks his mind" and "tells it like it is," everything he says sure seems to need a lot of translation from his supporters to become palatable for a mainstream audience.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> You just posted the quote, that's very clearly not what he was referring to.  For someone who "speaks his mind" and "tells it like it is," his quotes sure seem to need a lot of translation from his supporters to become palatable for a mainstream audience.



The article doesn't even say what he is talking about.  Lol.  The actual sentiment is clearly cut out from the triggering headline.  Context is left out.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The context doesn't even say what he is talking about.  Lol.  The actual sentiment is clearly cut out from the triggering headline.


I gave you the context, and again, it's not a necessary part of the puzzle.  You don't even need the full quote to get to the root of what he's saying. 
_
"Somebody will say, ‘oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.’ These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people. We have a LOT of foolish people."
_
He's mocking anybody and everybody who believes in freedom of speech.  He's mocking the first amendment as "foolish."


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> _"Somebody will say, ‘oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.’ These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people. We have a LOT of foolish people."
> _
> He's mocking anybody and everybody who believes in freedom of speech.  He's mocking the first amendment as "foolish."



Clearly, he is mocking "these people" for specific actions, whom and what the article doesn't refer to.  Several times in this thread, I practiced the same method of selectively quoting text, to have people outraged by quoting them out of context.  Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I was hoping to demonstrate that double standard.



mikefor20 said:


> I am saying the Third Reich loved to alter omit and redact things. And no Tabitha, being a Nazi is not okay.



It sounds like you are saying section 230 is akin to Nazi action, so therefore should be revoked, like Trump suggested.  But I can never tell with you.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Clearly, he is mocking "these people" for specific actions, whom and what the article doesn't refer to.  Several times in this thread, I practiced the same method of selectively quoting text, to have people outraged by quoting them out of context.  Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I was hoping to demonstrate that double standard.



Wifey fell a sleep so here it goes... the main double standard in play is that Trump isn't locked up for doing things that would put anyone else in prison. At least not yet... 10 days....


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Clearly, he is mocking "these people" for specific actions, whom and what the article doesn't refer to.  Several times in this thread, I practiced the same method of selectively quoting text, to have people outraged by quoting them out of context.  Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I was hoping to demonstrate that double standard.


Yes, and by "these people," he's referring to anyone who brings up the first amendment as a check on his presidential powers.  You're attempting to create ambiguity where there is none.

This really shouldn't come as a surprise, this is the same guy who, early in his presidency, even forgot he was supposed to be pro-second amendment.  "Take the guns first and go through due process later," he said.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Most of you were born during the GW administration...


I think you mean "most of *them"  *cause we are the same age.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

*Snip*



mikefor20 said:


> the main double standard in play is that Trump isn't locked up for doing things that would put anyone else in prison. At least not yet... 10 days....



I don't see how that relates to section 230 being similar to the Third Reich.  Is section 230 good or bad in your opinion?  But if you are going to say that Trump should be locked up for doing things that would put others in prison, is there a precedent?


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> it sounds like you are saying section 230 is akin to Nazi action, so therefore should be revoked, like Trump suggested.  But I can never tell with you.



Tearing down the media until you like what you see is a kin to Nazism.  Holding someone responsible for being a hate echo chamber is just responsible.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

What is happening with GBATEMP?


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

You are special. Just like Trump said. IDGAF about 230. Parler will be fucked by it. Should be. We'll see how it goes down. People should be held accountable for inciting and participating in a coup attempt. Treason carries the death penalty... 10 days

I don't have to list Trumps criminal offences. You keep asking people to explain over and over when it's been established. Baffle with bullshit. Don't you have some funari to attend to?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Tearing down the media until you like what you see is a kin to Nazism.  Holding someone responsible for being a hate echo chamber is just responsible.



That still doesn't answer anything to what we were discussing.  You said that section 230 was like the Third Reich.  Personally, I see good points and bad points about it.

I think places like gbatemp, twitter, and youtube should be treated as publishers.  I think they should be accountable for the content that they host.  I also think they should be accountable for removing content that would be, otherwise, a protected form of speach.  I'm not sure if I am able to interpret section 230 well enough to understand what it means in relationship to these ideals.  But you did make a position about it, it appears.  Can you say, for sure, that section 230 is good or bad?  It seems like you are flip flopping when confronted.



Xzi said:


> Yes, and by "these people," he's referring to anyone who brings up the first amendment as a check on his presidential powers.



Xzi filling in the blanks for me doesn't work.  Like I said before, people here don't appreciate being quoted out of context--specifically because it allows people to assume the context just as you are doing.  You are probably mistaken.



mikefor20 said:


> You keep asking people to explain over and over when it's been established



No dude.  You ramble on and on and are almost never able to address the issues as they are presented.  You called Trump procuring his daily read a form of censorship.  That's ridiculous.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> That still doesn't answer anything to what we were discussing.  You said that section 230 was like the Third Reich.  Personally, I see good points and bad points about it.
> 
> I think places like gbatemp, twitter, and youtube should be treated as publishers.  I think they should be accountable for the content that they host.  I also think they should be accountable for removing content that would be, otherwise, a protected form of speach.  I'm not sure if I am able to interpret section 230 well enough to understand what it means in relationship to these ideals.  But you did make a position about it, it appears.  Can you say, for sure, that section 230 is good or bad?  It seems like you are flip flopping when confronted.
> 
> ...



Dude. 230 was your discussion. Your issue. I am not flip flopping. That's your thing.  Pulling things out of context, also your thing.  And I don't care about your opinions, thoughts or wants.  That's also your thing. I think, in general, censorship is shit and very...Adolf. But I think if some fuck put a swastika on my house and I didn't remove it I would be responsible, in some way, for anything that occurred because of it. Now stop wagging the dog, confusing the issue and making everything about what you want. Who cares. Your not even an American. You didn't vote. And your prior argument that someone probably stole your identity to for Biden is shit. You are a traffic disruptor. A pure troll. You are the epitome of a Trump supporter. Stop pressing all the elevator buttons little boy. Move on.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Dude. 230 was your discussion. Your issue. I am not flip flopping. That's your thing.  Pulling things out of context, also your thing.  And I don't care about your opinions, thoughts or wants.  That's also your thing. I think, in general, censorship is shit and very...Adolf. But I think if some fuck put a swastika on my house and I didn't remove it I would be responsible, in some way, for anything that occurred because of it. Now stop wagging the dog, confusing the issue and making everything about what you want. Who cares. Your not even an American. You didn't vote. And your prior argument that someone probably stole your identity to for Biden is shit. You are a traffic disruptor. A pure troll. You are the epitome of a Trump supporter. Stop pressing all the elevator buttons little boy. Move on.



Ok.  So you were apart of the conversation...  and now you are saying that you were never apart of the conversation.  Message received.

I do agree with the statement "I think, in general, censorship is shit", but everything else you say tends to be deflective and unaccountable of the words you have already stated.  As for my sarcastic remark about my identity being stolen, look at it in context, and see that it wasn't a genuine "argument".  You are getting caught up over the wrong things.



D34DL1N3R said:


> You wouldnt even dare show your face around anyone here in person, let alone a pic of your mangina.



*Snip*


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> That still doesn't answer anything to what we were discussing.  You said that section 230 was like the Third Reich.  Personally, I see good points and bad points about it.
> 
> I think places like gbatemp, twitter, and youtube should be treated as publishers.  I think they should be accountable for the content that they host.  I also think they should be accountable for removing content that would be, otherwise, a protected form of speach.  I'm not sure if I am able to interpret section 230 well enough to understand what it means in relationship to these ideals.  But you did make a position about it, it appears.  Can you say, for sure, that section 230 is good or bad?  It seems like you are flip flopping when confronted.
> 
> ...



You are ridiculous. Trump censors his news. He tries to censor the media and fails. So he goes back to his sad little swiss cheese holed news. Xzi, already said enough. Stop wagging the dog.

I don't need to state things over again cause you can't read or retain what you read 5 posts ago. I don't care what you want. Your just trolling.

*Snip*


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You are ridiculous. Trump censors his news. He tries to censor the media and fails.



Trump "censors" his news the same way someone would "censor" their porn. You are applying the word in a comically ridiculous way.

*Snip*


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Someone clearly is being resentful and petty.  Is there something you want to get off your chest?


I've already told you how I feel about your trolling! Everyone can just look at your past posts (all of them). And see that all you ever do is troll on here.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> I've already told you how I feel about your trolling! Everyone can just look at your past posts (all of them). And see that all you ever do is troll on here.



I don't agree with a lot of people.  Saying something that is annoying to your brain isn't the kind of trolling that I would consider offensive.  So, if you are going to say I am trolling, why don't you take the extra step and  address "what" I have said and how "how" it is irrelevant, instead of just whining?

*Snip*


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Trump "censors" his news the same way someone would "censor" their porn. You are applying the word in a comically ridiculous way.
> 
> *Snip*



It all starts somewhere. And I sort my media myself. I don't have someone do it for me because I can't handle it. Read what his family says about him.

*Snip*


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

*Snip*



tabzer said:


> I don't agree with a lot of people.  Saying something that is annoying to your brain isn't the kind of trolling that I would consider offensive.  So, if you are going to say I am trolling, why don't you take the extra step and  address "what" I have said and how "how" it is irrelevant, instead of just whining?
> 
> 
> 
> *Snip*



Good thing you cover all forms of trolling. You are talented!

You always want more explanations. I know this is complicated for you but everything is there. Read it.

*Snip*


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Xzi said:


> He's mocking the first amendment as "foolish."



I think some peoples interpretation of the first amendment is foolish, they are slaves to their interpretation of the constitution and take it to ridiculous extremes.

Most of what Trump & his supports say is not protected by the first amendment, because it's false.

The first amendment is to protect your right to point out what the government are doing, so they can't just say you're right but we're still going to silence you. It's not there to destabilize society with lies.

It's difficult when faced with a mass delusion like qanon, because they'll just say it's more proof that they are on the right side. But letting it run it's course is worse.


----------



## brickmii82 (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> The bakers said no gays.  Twitter said no hate speech..  yeah. So similar? No. I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They said they didn’t want to do something that violated their beliefs. Twitter doesn’t believe it’s the best idea to post violence inducing rhetoric so they banned him. In both situations service was denied due to enforcing terms of service.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

brickmii82 said:


> They said they didn’t want to do something that violated their beliefs.



But discrimination of people for their sexuality is illegal, people who murder aren't let off because of their religious beliefs. To me the whole bakery thing always seemed a little over the top, but then I'm not gay and facing discrimination.

If you want the law to protect you then you have to be a decent human being, rather than the scum that Trump is.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

The bakery case was nonsense. They weren´t denied the purchase of a cake but the creation of a specific cake that didn´t exist yet. I cannot force Nintendo to make better Mario remakes (even if they didn´t want to because I like women).

With regards to Twitter we have to remember the service is free. Unless you consider your data as a form of value.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> The thought of them kicking more good Christian people like Trump from Twitter is appalling.



Is Trump really Christian?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> They weren´t denied the purchase of a cake but the creation of a specific cake that didn´t exist yet.



What if the nature of your business is making bespoke cakes? If I was baking cakes for a living then I'd write whatever the hell they paid me to. I'm pretty sure every time they write Happy Birthday [insert name] Love [insert name] on a cake they don't love the person they are paid to make the cake for.

I'd be surprised if they vetted straight couples before making them a wedding cake either.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> When you make bespoke cakes then that is the nature of your business though surely?


It´s McDonald´s business to make burgers but I can´t ask them to make a specific one.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It´s McDonald´s business to make burgers but I can´t ask them to make a specific one.



McDonalds don't advertise making bespoke goods though, it's not the same.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> McDonalds don't make bespoke goods though, it's not the same.


My bad. I didn´t know the meaning of the word "bespoke". I thought it meant "said".
I don´t think there is a legal difference though (between companies that makes tailored goods and those that don´t).
Let´s say I have 500 cakes, 500 male figurines and 500 female figurines in stock. Can you, the customer, force me to use two male ones even if I need them for another cake? (or simply if I don´t want to)
Seems pretty extreme to me.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I don´t think there is a legal difference though (between companies that makes tailored goods and those that don´t).



It would form part of their argument.

If you went into a mcdonalds and asked them for a bun in lgbtq rainbow colors and they refused because they can't dye the bread then it isn't discrimination.

If they started offering a bun dying service, but specifically refused to dye the bread in lgbtq colors then it would be discrimination.

You can't force them to start dying bread.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

And if I simply disliked the color combination? It was his mistake to state that it was about sexuality. In reality, people discriminate based on sex, race etc all the time. Most people just keep quiet about it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> It would form part of their argument.
> 
> If you went into a mcdonalds and asked them for a bun in lgbtq rainbow colors and they refused because they can't dye the bread then it isn't discrimination.
> 
> ...


Coincidentally, there was an identical, perfectly analogous case in the UK and the courts have ruled in favour of the baker.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

To give some specifics, the UK supreme court has ruled that in accordance to Article 10 of the European Human Rights Convention a baker cannot be compelled to express an opinion that they do not agree with. A baker cannot refuse to sell goods based on sexual orientation or other innate characteristics of the customer, but can refuse to create a bespoke message on said cake.


> "This court has held that nobody should be forced to have or express a political opinion in which he does not believe [...] the bakers could not refuse to supply their goods to Mr Lee because he was a gay man or supported gay marriage, but that is quite different from obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed."


In other words, the court considered the message on the cake as a form of expression, and as such forcing the baker to write a message that goes against their beliefs would be classified as compelled speech.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And if I simply disliked the color combination?



Why do you need to like the color combination? It's your job.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It was his mistake to state that it was about sexuality.



In part it was their belief that discrimination against gay people was right and proper that betrayed him.

But I don't think they could give any refusal that any reasonable person would accept in court anyway.



Foxi4 said:


> Coincidentally, there was an identical, perfectly analogous case in the UK and the courts have ruled in favour of the baker.



Specifically it was in Northern Ireland, I think it would have gone differently if the bakery was in England. They don't want to give them any excuse to start bombing again. I believe the court came to the wrong conclusion as there is no expectation that the baker believes anything they are paid to write on a cake. But refusing means that the gay person is excluded from having a cake.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Why do you need to like the color combination? It's your job.


Can you force a prostitute to sleep with you (for money) even if she does not want to due to your race?
It´s her "job" after all.

Discrimation laws like these are well-meant but ultimately pointless.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Can you force a prostitute to sleep with you (for money) even if she does not want to due to your race?



You can't force anyone to sleep with you for any reason, it's illegal.

Having sex with someone and writing words on a cake are different.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> You can't force anyone to sleep with you for any reason, it's illegal.


And you can´t force me to move my hands to create a cake I don´t want to make. Maybe my boss could make me (but he was his own boss, I think).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Specifically it was in Northern Ireland, I think it would have gone differently if the bakery was in England. They don't want to give them any excuse to start bombing again.


The crux of the issue is what's being refused. That bakery would've refused to write a pro-gay message regardless of whether the person requesting it was gay or straight, black or white, Christian or atheist, human or a space alien. In fact, most times they don't even have a way of knowing - last time I bought a cake nobody asked me about my preferences. The point of contention is the message, not the customer requesting said message. If I, as a straight man, went in there and requested that cake, I would be faced with the same refusal, but I would not be discriminated against based on my sexuality - the baker just doesn't support what I support. Personally I think these kinds of restrictions are stupid - the baker doing so is losing business they would've otherwise made, but it is well-within their rights to refuse service if they disagree with the message.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And you can´t force me to move my hands to create a cake I don´t want to make. Maybe my boss could make me (but he was his own boss, I think).



Sure, I can't force you. But if your refusal is because of hatred of gays then it's discrimination and I can sue you.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Sure, I can't force you. But if your refusal is because of hatred of gays then it's discrimination and I can sue you.


And if the prostitute doesn´t want to sleep with you because of your race. Can you sue her?
Both cases are a form of slavery (sexual vs otherwise).


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That bakery would've refused to write a pro-gay message regardless of whether the person requesting it was gay or straight, black or white, Christian or atheist human or a space alien. The point of contention is the message, not the customer requesting said message.



But it's likely a cake with a gay message on it is for a gay person.

Gay people deserve to be able to receive cakes with messages on them that they want



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And if the prostitute doesn´t want to sleep with you because of your race. Can you sue her?



Well that is an interesting question, as soliciting prostitution was illegal in many places then I suspect you'd not succeed in a court case. But again I think having sex with someone is a more intimate act than making a cake, so I think the court case would fail as they would balance the rights of both parties.

You can of course sue anyone for anything you like.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> But it's likely a cake with a gay message on it is for a gay person.
> 
> Gay people deserve to be able to receive cakes with messages on them that they want


Why is that likely? Large swathes of the population support gay marriage, and this cake was specifically ordered for a function - International Day Against Homophobia. Irony aside, I doubt every single organiser involved was gay. It's actually presumptuous to assume that. I absolutely agree that they should be able to order such services, but that doesn't empower them to compel others.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Why is that likely? Large swathes of the population support gay marriage, and this cake was specifically ordered for a function - International Day Against Homophobia. Irony aside, I doubt every single organiser involved was gay. It's actually presumptuous to assume that. I absolutely agree that they should be able to order such services, but that doesn't empower them to compel others.



I think it's unlikely that none of the people who would see/eat the cake were gay.

If they should be able to order such services, but everyone refuses then what do they do? Surely that is the whole point of anti descrimination laws.

This specific cake was to set an example, so that other gay couples could order a cake.

The issue is that the baker actually cares enough about being anti gay that they would turn away business.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Well that is an interesting question, as soliciting prostitution was illegal in many places then I suspect you'd not succeed in a court case.


I´m not here to win a court case. You have to admit there is no substanial difference. One would be forced labor (and one forced sexual labor).

Anyway back to topic: Trump´s adventures are covered in China in detail. Unlike in the West, the news are usually strictly objective (without opinion pieces) but I know from private conversations that many find it quite funny (and compare it to the HK demonstrations which were praised in the US).


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I´m not here to win a court case. You have to admit there is no substanial difference. One would be forced labor (and one forced sexual labor).



None of the letters that the person was asked to write on the cake is any different from any other letters. It's not forced labor to use a different combination than they normally would.

Prostitution is not a good example, because it has so many issues to balance. I suspect you picked it thinking it would be a slam dunk, but in reality it is a sign of a weak argument.

There is a substantial difference between putting combinations of letters on a cake and having sex with someone.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> I think it's unlikely that none of the people who would see/eat the cake were gay.
> 
> If they should be able to order such services, but everyone refuses then what do they do? Surely that is the whole point of anti descrimination laws.
> 
> ...


I don't know what they should do - perhaps they should start a bakery, it sounds like an untapped target demographic if *everyone* is refusing them service. Perhaps they should blow the issue up in the media - many businesses have changed their ways under the pressure of public scrutiny. Most times just giving your money to somebody else works, and it takes business away from the bakery that disagrees with your views. The problem here is that if you reversed the situation and had a homophobic customer ordering an anti-gay marriage cake for a function that opposes legalising gay marriage at a gay-owned bakery, chances are that you would side with the bakery refusing service because your moral compass is telling you that this is the more inclusive, compassionate option. In doing so you deprive the other side of their rights and violate their beliefs, which is the exact opposite sentiment. The government should not have the power to coerce one side or the other. In all factuality, you *don't* have a right to any service - you don't, I don't, nobody does. Any form of transaction must necessarily be based on mutual and voluntary exchange, and in these scenarios one side is not volunteering anything - they are refusing to participate. If you were to coerce them under penalty of law, that is indistinguishable from indentured servitude in my eyes. The courts already have the power to adjudicate these matters if the dispute is based on prejudice against the actual customer, but if it is a matter of one's beliefs, however stupid they may be, you are treading the waters of thought crime.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> There is a substantial difference between putting combinations of letters on a cake and having sex with someone.


No, there isn´t if having sex is your (voluntary) occupation.
Let´s say a prostitutes dislikes white people so much, she doesn´t even want to sell her sex videos to them. Is it racist discrimation? Yes (and it is even less labor-intensive then putting letters in a certain way). But it´s ok. Most people are racist, act/discriminate accordingly but just keep quiet about it.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The courts already have the power to adjudicate these matters if the dispute is based on prejudice against the actual customer, but if it is a matter of one's beliefs, however stupid they may be, you are treading the waters of thought crime.



No, it's not a thought crime. If you hate gay people and keep those thoughts to yourself and don't let it affect your actions then the world is a nicer place.

It is discrimination in the sense that gay customers might want specific words on their cake. Now if they'd asked for the cake to say "anal sex is great" then I would have more sympathy for the baker.

While I agree that people reserve the right to refuse service for any reason, but there are some reasons that open yourself up to discrimination lawsuits because the law is not black and white. There are competing rights that are weighed up.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Let´s say a prostitutes dislikes white people so much, she doesn´t even want to sell her sex videos to them. Is it racist discrimation? Yes. But it´s ok.



I'd argue that it wasn't ok. First sale doctrine means you have no control over whether someone else sells your video to someone you don't like, so you can't claim you would suffer any harm by anyone being able to purchase it. If there is no harm to you, then the only person who can provide evidence of harm is the person you discriminated against.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Most people are racist, act/discriminate accordingly but just keep quiet about it.



Racism is a common human trait, racists act on it while good people rise above it. The ones who discriminate but keep quiet are scum.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

A wedding is a private affair. They have plenty of other bakers around to choose from and you are asking a real person to make it. I wouldn't make a cake for NAMBLA or a MAGA cake and shouldn't be forced to do so. So go to another baker. WTF? He can refuse service and lose business. His prerogative. You can tell everyone and hurt his business,  your perogative. Sue him you suck. Let him be free to be a douche. It's the American way!

If I was to force a black baker to craft a KKK cake how would you feel? Force a gay baker make an anti gay cake? Would there be support for the baker? That is damaging to an individual.  Where would it end?

Twitter is a bulletin board. Having hate speech up there for all to see under your website's logo is damaging.  Damaging to your company and potentially damaging to the morons that read it.  When your reach is 300,000,000+ and it's all ages at that, you should probably take some initiative if there is an threat. They are in every country pretty much and can instantly spread hate to the globe. If they leave a swasticka up it could cause real morons to do real stupid shit. Everywhere. Like Wednesday. Trumps tweets have caused plenty of problems.  Twitter has every right to protect themselves. As long as they only censor things that constitute a threat to them or their users. They have an obligation to do so.

One wants to protect their beliefs. Feelings..The other in an attempt to protect interests. And the public's interests. Irresponsible tweets from Trump carry real consequences. A cake with 2 dudes.. That's a person making that cake. Want your mama making a giant cock cake against her will?

Both have s right to protect themselves. 

I do despise censorship. Hitler took control in a large part by controlling the media. But you have a ringleader slinging hate, lies and giving veiled orders to a bunch of his cultists. Twitter should not be forced.

Cake guy shouldn't be sued either. Hes a douche but so are those guys for pushing the issue. Ridiculous. Go somewhere else.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Racism is a common human trait, racists act on it while good people rise above it. The ones who discriminate but keep quiet are scum.


That´s quite harsh. You just said it is a human trait. You just called a large part of humanity scum. Most people have sexual preferences and preferences with regards to friends based on race, for example. I.e. most [insert race] people date within said race and have friends of said race (even if they live in societies in which this race is rare).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> No, it's not a thought crime. If you hate gay people and keep those thoughts to yourself and don't let it affect your actions then the world is a nicer place.
> 
> It is discrimination in the sense that gay customers want might specific words on their cake. Now if they'd asked for the cake to say "anal sex is great" then I would have more sympathy for the baker.


Supporting or opposing gay marriage is a specific political position, especially in the context of legalisation. If the baker opposes such legislation and you compel said baker to produce materials in support of it, you have compelled the baker to "speak" in support of a cause they oppose. This has nothing to do with gays having or not having the right to buy cakes - they were not refused a cake, or even the service, they were refused on the basis of the messaging. That de facto means that they were not barred from commerce in the establishment on the basis of their orientation - they could've bought anything they wanted. The baker simply refused to write *a specific message*, not any random message. The entire debacle was not over the goods, not over the service of writing on the cake, but over the message that was supposed to be written. It doesn't matter if the baker is a homophobe or not - you yourself have stated that it's legal for them to think whatever they want. This is not a trial of the baker's moral character, it's a trial on whether or not the customer was refused service based on innate characteristics, and the determination was that they weren't.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> you have compelled the baker to "speak" in support of a cause they oppose.



I disagree, I don't see that being paid to write words on a cake means you have to endorse the message on the cake.

If they did then they would be so full of love and best wishes that they would want to spread joy no matter what the message. They just want to perpetuate their hatred of gays.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> I disagree, I don't see that being paid to write words on a cake means you have to endorse the message on the cake.



You are forcing someone to participate in a cause they disagree with. Leave them alone and go somewhere else. Why do you think you deserve to make other people uncomfortable with no consequences?  You aren't special and don't have a right to be accepted.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

Isn´t "perpetuating" an action? To me, the baker was the passive one. I think the "victims" even went to many bakeries in order to find one that would deny their request.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> I disagree, I don't see that being paid to write words on a cake means you have to endorse the message on the cake.


It's not about endorsement, it's about the act of an utterance - that's what's protected. In the same fashion you cannot force an actor to play a character in your movie production if they don't like the character. If they don't want to sign a contract with you, they just don't, and no amount of money can change that. They offer acting services to anyone - white directors, black directors, women, men, gay or straight - they just don't want to play a gay guy in your film, for instance, to draw a little parallel. That doesn't have any bearing on what they endorse or don't endorse, it doesn't mean that they're homophobes, it means they don't want to participate in whatever it is you're filming. They have freedom of association and they choose not to be associated with the production in any capacity.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You are forcing someone to participate in a cause they disagree with.



Their job is to write words on a cake, I'm paying them the going rate to do so. I am not expecting their endorsement.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Isn´t "perpetuating" an action?



No, you can perpetuate something by ignoring it.



Foxi4 said:


> It's not about endorsement, it's about the act of an utterance



I am not asking them to say anything.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Their job is to write words on a cake, I'm paying them the going rate to do so. I am not expecting their endorsement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not a right to have a cake say anything. They don't want your money that's up to them. Not you. You're not special. Get out of my store!


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> In the same fashion you cannot force an actor to play a character in your movie production if they don't like the character.



"Characters in a movie" are not a protected class, your argument kinda falls apart at that point.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> No, you can perpetuate something by ignoring it.


Ok then it just means "to keep it alive". What´s wrong with keeping hatred alive? Ever read the Bible? It´s full of hate towards all kinds of people and it helped mine survive. If you think I am obligated to love everyone, you can go back to smoking weed and singing kumbaya. Hate is not a crime, neither is ignoring.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> "Characters in a movie" are not a protected class, your argument kinda falls apart at that point.


Not really. In this instance the customer is the director and the service provider is the actor. The director wants to film a movie that celebrates gay marriage, with the actor playing one of the roles. The actor opposes *the idea* of gay marriage and refuses the role. Playing the role would make him "speak" words someone else wrote down for him that he does not agree with. He has to voluntarily agree to that in order for the contract to be valid. In the same way, a baker has to agree to put somebody else's words on a cake, as the final message, cake or film, is the result of the craftsman's expression, actor or baker. This is a perfect analogy. Who knows, maybe the director is gay - it's a possibility based on the subject matter of the film, right? You don't *know* that he's not, since that was your argument earlier? Is the actor depriving the gay audience of a film that celebrates them? You keep bringing that up, even though it has nothing to do with the case at hand. The reason why it doesn't is because it's irrelevant - anybody else offering that script would also be refused - it's a problem with the script, or the message on the cake.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It's not a right to have a cake say anything.



No, but you do get protection against indirect discrimination in the EU as part of article 14 of the human rights act.

The bakery would have to refuse to put messages in support of any kind of marriage to be safe.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What´s wrong with keeping hatred alive?



Everything. The world would be a much better place without hate.



Foxi4 said:


> The actor opposes *the idea* of gay marriage and refuses the role.



I'm not sure I can get onboard with the idea of an actor that opposes gay marriage. It would be a terrible profession for someone anti gay.

Actors play parts, they love playing parts that are very different from their own views.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Everything. The world would be a much better place without hate.


So you prefer a lifeless planet?
It is ok to hate you and your mother. It´s not ok to hit you or her without a good reason like self-defense.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So you prefer a lifeless planet?



You think the opposite of hate is a lifeless planet?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> I'm not sure I can get onboard with the idea of an actor that opposes gay marriage. It would be a terrible profession for someone anti gay.


Merely an example that better illustrates the issue at hand. The "protected" part here is the actor's right not to perform a service that expresses an idea that he disagrees with. The actor is entitled to reject such an offer, no matter who asks, and forcing him to perform would indeed be compelled speech, regardless of whether he endorses gay marriage or not. In fact, let's say that he does, but doesn't want to star in that movie because it goes against his image. You don't know why he refuses. What you do know is that he doesn't want to express the message you are tasking him with. He might agree to a different role, but he doesn't want this one, for whatever reason.


smf said:


> Actors play parts, they love playing parts that are very different from their own views.


This one doesn't, so you're in a pickle, director. Are you going to find another actor or are you going to court, because this diversion has gone long enough.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> You think the opposite of hate is a lifeless planet?


A world without hate is something I´d expect to come from a 5-year-old (or a cheesy Christmas song).
There will always be hate. It is also human nature. Albert and Dan want Sophia. Sophia decides to be with Dan. Albert hates Dan and/or Sophia.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> It is also human nature. Albert and Dan want Sophia. Sophia decides to be with Dan. Albert hates Dan and/or Sophia.



Only if you teach a sense of entitlement. It's poor teaching that makes people hate.

Whether it's from the people that created the religion that you believe, or your parents.

But it can stop. With proper teaching then you don't need to hate someone just because they chose to be with someone else. Or because they want to be with someone from the same gender or a different race.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Only if you teach a sense of entitlement. It's poor teaching that makes people hate.
> 
> Whether it's from the people that created the religion that you believe, or your parents.
> 
> But it can stop.



I don´t believe (if the "you" was specific). You are wrong: Children hate each other (even if they are taught nothing and not raised by anyone). It´s based on limited resources. Two children: one toy - hate. It´s not even just human nature but part of life itself. Chimpanzees wage wars (https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...are-explain-our-sense-of-good-and-evil/58643/) and compete for females to the death (https://www.newscientist.com/articl...der-and-then-cannibalise-their-former-tyrant/)
One way to overcome hate between two parties is to make them hate others. Isn´t it remarkable that the US can only be kept together by bombing half the world and always evoking Americans as being something special? Isn´t that hate? Why don´t you do something about it? I hope you at least don´t vote for either of the war parties.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Two children: one toy - hate.



It depends on how they are taught, it seems you've been taught to hate.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Chimpanzees wage wars



You don't think we should aim higher than wild animals?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Isn´t it remarkable that the US can only be kept together by bombing half the world



I don't know if that is true that it's the only way.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Why don´t you do something about it?



I thought I was, what do you suggest?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 9, 2021)

What are you doing against the gravest expression of hate: constant wars.
Forcing people to bake cakes?
I haven´t been taught to hate. In fact I don´t hate you, nor gays, BLM protesters or Trump´s minions. It´s just a funny spectacle to behold. At least let us have some fun watching the becon of humanity f*ck up in such an "amazin´" way (your country owes the world too many apologies anyways... and yes, UK, USA is the same thing).


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 9, 2021)

I doubt it actually means anything overall, but if Murkowski leaves the Republican party, we might be looking at 51 seats for the Dems.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Everything. The world would be a much better place without hate.


"Hate" comes in different forms and doesn't have to be necessarily a bad thing.

Would you say hating a dictator is a bad thing? Is hating tyranny bad? Is hating to live in lockdown bad? No, to all.

Anyway, Trump's Twitter account was permanently banned so despite hating that PoS social media and feel irrelevant about Trump, it shows what power tech giants have. Twitter for some reason won't ban the CP accounts on there who are proud of it, but Trump? Oh yeah, of course.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 9, 2021)

Hate and Love are two sides of passion.  You can't bar one and keep the other.  If you love something, then you will hate whatever threatens it.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 9, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Hate and Love are two sides of passion.  You can't bar one and keep the other.  If you love something, then you will hate whatever threatens it.


Alright, I love equality and acceptance. By extension, I absolutely hate discrimination and bigotry. So yeah, I'm perfectly fine with Twitter shutting down a fountain of hate speech and misinformation as well as a bakery not being able to refuse service based on personal bigotry.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

Woah, woah, woah.

I think a lot of people talking about Masterpiece Cakeshop are really missing the point that case made. It wasn't a landmark case and isn't as broad as many of you are making it out to be.

Basically, the cakeshop didn't want to make the custom cake for that couple and then the Colorado Civil Rights Commission fined them for being discriminatory. But what the Supreme Court found (in a 7-2 decision) was only that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission violated the first amendment by not remaining religiously neutral when making its decision.

Neither the opinion of the court nor the concurrences definitively addressed the issue of whether Masterpiece Cakeshop violated the Constitution. Just that the Civil Rights Commission did in punishing them.

I briefly studied this case in Constitutional Law II in law school. I say briefly because it was not as broad as people make it out to be.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

Is this also worthy of a ban? I'd love to know what rules this tweet broke. "BuT tWaTtEr Is A PrIvAtE cOmPaNy"

I can't wait to see where this ends, all you're doing is pushing those on the fringe right, the middle and even some common sense lefties towards the mainstream, this will blow up in your face eventually. Enjoy your echo chambers.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Is this also worthy of a ban? I'd love to know what rules this tweet broke. "BuT tWaTtEr Is A PrIvAtE cOmPaNy"
> 
> I can't wait to see where this ends, all you're doing is pushing those on the fringe right, the middle and even some common sense lefties towards the mainstream, this will blow up in your face eventually. Enjoy your echo chambers.
> 
> View attachment 241167


Twitter provided a more than sufficient reason for the lock. It's not a ban.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Twitter provided a more than sufficient reason for the lock. It's not a ban.



They dont need to provide any reason. That's the point, the capital isn't washington its Silicon Valley, they control everything you see online, all the (mis)information. But again, he broke no rules. This is just liberal companies doing whatever they want, of course you don't have a problem with it because you agree with those dictators.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I can't wait to see where this ends, all you're doing is pushing those on the fringe right, the middle and even some common sense lefties towards the mainstream, this will blow up in your face eventually. Enjoy your echo chambers.



Obviously that's not what's happening here.  Only ones pushing anyone away are Trumpers, pushing more and more and more people to the left day by day by day. Dems won presidency, house, and senate. In case you forgot.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> They dont need to provide any reason. That's the point, the capital isn't washington its Silicon Valley, they control everything you see online, all the (mis)information. But again, he broke no rules. This is just liberal companies doing whatever they want, of course you don't have a problem with it because you agree with those dictators.


Twitter provided the rule that was broken.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

I predict that the most recent couple of posts are going to be removed before long. You both might want to calm down. 



Lacius said:


> Twitter provided the rule that was broken.


Exactly. And yet, this doesn't stop people from saying it's arbitrary and that Trump is being personally targeted.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> Woah, woah, woah.
> 
> I think a lot of people talking about Masterpiece Cakeshop are really missing the point that case made. It wasn't a landmark case and isn't as broad as many of you are making it out to be.
> 
> ...


We were actually arguing about a similar UK case, but yes, the Masterpiece Cakeshop case ruling was made in a way that sort of bypassed the entire issue, presumably because they didn't want to set a precedent.


Ericzander said:


> I predict that the most recent couple of posts are going to be removed before long. You both might want to calm down.


Your prediction isn't wrong, but take a moment to marvel at them. This is my life, Mag Staff.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> We were actually arguing about a similar UK case


Ope, look at me jumping to conclusions. I see cake, I see court, I say "I know this one."


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> Ope, look at me jumping to conclusions. I see cake, I see court, I say "I know this one."


You would be surprised by how many cakes have gone through the legal system. Just the donuts alone... Are donuts a cake? What is a cake, really?


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> I predict that the most recent couple of posts are going to be removed before long. You both might want to calm down.
> 
> 
> Exactly. And yet, this doesn't stop people from saying it's arbitrary and that Trump is being personally targeted.



Explain to me in detail what about DBongino's tweet broke the civic integrity rule. The precise point, the words, everything about that tweet that specifically is beyond the scope of twitter's rules and deserved to be locked out. If you can't, then It's arbitrary and they're just silencing conservatives like they have done unabated for the last 4 years.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Explain to me in detail what about DBongino's tweet broke the civic integrity rule. The precise point, the words, everything about that tweet that specifically is beyond the scope of twitter's rules and deserved to be locked out. If you can't, then It's arbitrary and they're just silencing conservatives like they have done unabated for the last 4 years.


Nice fake victimhood  It’s almost like you don’t agree with private property


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Nice fake victimhood  It’s almost like you don’t agree with private property



Hey thanks for explaining in detail what he did wrong like I asked, I stand corrected! Jk you totally changed the subject and made no valid point whatsoever, as usual.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 9, 2021)

Trump isn't a protected class, the cake lawsuit doesn't apply here.

His ban wasn't based on any discrimination, so it is legal.








Trump has no other legal grounds to be upset that his behavior breaching the sites TOS got him banned.


----------



## Glyptofane (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Hey thanks for explaining in detail what he did wrong like I asked, I stand corrected! Jk you totally changed the subject and made no valid point whatsoever, as usual.


The people trying to justify this are as bad as the tech companies themselves. Trump's original 12 hour ban came after telling his people to stand down and that message was actually deleted. The final solution, Twitter admits, is out of fear he might incite violence in the future, not for anything he posted between then and now.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 9, 2021)

gotta love how every so often someone jumps back in to do nothing but derail things and toss out conspiracy-tier strawmen
first it was... can't remember tbh, then later on it was shamzie, then it was that burner account guy and now it's shamzie again
this thread is a catastrophe and I love it
also "willy fencing" 
I never thought I'd laugh so hard at carefully-chosen synonyms!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Glyptofane said:


> The people trying to justify this are as bad as the tech companies themselves. Trump's original 12 hour ban came after telling his people to stand down and that message was actually deleted. The final solution, Twitter admits, is out of fear he might incite violence in the future, not for anything he posted between then and now.


_*here fixed it for you*_
"people trying to justify this are as bad as the *Trump *themselves. Trump's original 12 hour ban came after telling his people *They were beautiful for staging sedition and failed coup* and that message was actually deleted. The final solution, Twitter admits, is out of fear he might incite violence in the future *for a 2nd time.*


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Hey thanks for explaining in detail what he did wrong like I asked, I stand corrected! Jk you totally changed the subject and made no valid point whatsoever, as usual.


It’s not my job to explain what that user did wrong nor do I care to do so. It’s twitter’s job to explain why they do what they do, considering it’s their company/platform. If you disagree with a choice they made then bring it up with them, not me.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Boesy said:


> Would you say hating a dictator is a bad thing? Is hating tyranny bad? Is hating to live in lockdown bad? No, to all.



Yes, to all. Hate doesn't help you deal with any of them, it's an act of self harm. All you can do is control yourself, not Trump & not a virus.

The people who got caught up in the thrill of attacking the capitol because of an imagined threat are either dead or are being investigated for prosecution & their actions were ultimately pointless, they were just pawns in one of Trumps games.

The people who are kicking and screaming because they hate lockdown are putting themselves in risky situations by not wearing masks etc. I miss things, but I embraced lockdown.

I get to be happy and am more likely to live, what more can you hope for?


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 9, 2021)

So "#hangpence" has been trending for the last 12 hours or so and twitter has made 0 effort to stop it.


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

omgcat said:


> Trump has no other legal grounds to be upset that his behavior breaching the sites TOS got him banned.



He could argue that he has a mental impairment that makes him say crazy things & he lacks capacity, which he would be able to get a whole load of professionals to certify.



Joe88 said:


> So "#hangpence" has been trending for the last 12 hours or so and twitter has made 0 effort to stop it.



Have you reported it? It's the weekend, they might not be actively monitoring.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> He could argue that he has a mental impairment that makes him say crazy things, which he would be able to get a whole load of professionals to certify.


Thing is, in admitting a serious mental disability resulting in him incapable of maintaining decent conduct on social media, *he'd be admitting he has a serious mental disability that could be used as further grounds that he is fundamentally unfit to be President.*


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> He could argue that he has a mental impairment that makes him say crazy things, which he would be able to get a whole load of professionals to certify..


you very well know he's not...hes too "smart" for that


----------



## smf (Jan 9, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Thing is, in admitting a serious mental disability resulting in him incapable of maintaining decent conduct on social media, *he'd be admitting he has a serious mental disability that could be used as further grounds that he is fundamentally unfit to be President.*



You're assuming that Trump wouldn't go to Twitter and argue one thing and go to congress and argue another.
Have you not been paying attention to him?



djpannda said:


> you very well know he's not...hes too "smart" for that



He'd argue anything if he thought it would give him a short term advantage, he can argue something else tomorrow. He has no integrity so there is no need to be consistent.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> He'd argue anything if he thought it would give him a short term advantage, he can argue something else tomorrow. He has no integrity so there is no need to be consistent.


That has a high level of failure... 
if he has claim mental issue, They will lock him up instantly .. never to be heard of again.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 9, 2021)

smf said:


> Have you reported it? It's the weekend, they might not be actively monitoring.


Ignore this message I'm an Idiot and misread your reply lol


----------



## Xzi (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> So "#hangpence" has been trending for the last 12 hours or so and twitter has made 0 effort to stop it.


Sounds like a MAGA hashtag to me, he's a traitor according to them since he refused to overturn the election (a power he never had to begin with).


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> So "#hangpence" has been trending for the last 12 hours or so and twitter has made 0 effort to stop it.


Hopefully this will help Pence change his mind about agreeing to using the 25th amendment!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

this one wins today ...soo far..


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 9, 2021)

djpannda said:


> this one wins today ...soo far..



She can't be a liberal, they're okay with both.


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 9, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> So "#hangpence" has been trending for the last 12 hours or so and twitter has made 0 effort to stop it.



Well..he is an accomplice... treason does carry the death penalty....


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> She can't be a liberal, they're okay with both.


I am starting to get this feeling that you just call everything that you dislike, don’t agree with, or don’t understand, a “liberal.”


----------



## djpannda (Jan 9, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I am starting to get this feeling that you just everything that you dislike, don’t agree with, or don’t understand, a “liberal.”


lol this ones for you


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 9, 2021)

shamzie said:


> She can't be a liberal, they're okay with both.


"Explain to me in detail what about djpannda's meme implied liberals are okay with both. The precise point, the words, everything about that meme that specifically is beyond the scope of your comment and deserved to be commented. If you can't, then It's arbitrary and you're just silencing liberals like you have done unabated for the last 6 years."


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 9, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Twitter is a company, they won't ban him. Twitter gets far too much attraction and profits from Trump posting. It would be an unwise business decision to ban him.


I'll take _Things that aged poorly_ for $200, Alex.



djpannda said:


> this one wins today ...soo far..


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 9, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Hopefully this will help Pence change his mind about agreeing to using the 25th amendment!


Nah, I doubt it. This is just going to reinforce his cowardice, even though they'll hate him no matter what since he denied Trump a request (one he is legally incapable of fulfilling, but they don't give a fuck).
Also, I find it beautifully ironic that my 666th message is partially about Donald Trump, a man who would absolutely sell his soul for power or popularity without a second thought if given the chance.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 9, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Thing is, in admitting a serious mental disability resulting in him incapable of maintaining decent conduct on social media, *he'd be admitting he has a serious mental disability that could be used as further grounds that he is fundamentally unfit to be President.*



That sums up my opinion of conservatism.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> "A manager that assigns numbers-focused work to people of asian descent based on his bias."(quote from your source)


Living in China I can confirm it is not a bias though. 
Looking at math grades or testing math ability would be ideal, but even if the manager didn´t, his chance of getting it right based on his bias/gut would be higher (than if he sought to give the work to a different person).
Forcing equity will make life in America less efficient and more dangerous. Do you want your plane to be steered by the best pilot, your heart to be operated on by the best surgeon or by an affirmative action non-binary vegan vision-impaired person of courage?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Living in China I can confirm it is not a bias though.
> Looking at math grades or testing math ability would be ideal, but even if the manager didn´t, his chance of getting it right based on his bias/gut would be higher (than if he sought to give the work to a different person).
> Forcing equity will make life in America less efficient and more dangerous. Do you want your plane to be steered by the best pilot, your heart to be operated on by the best surgeon or by an affirmative action non-binary vegan vision-impaired person of courage?


Thing is, it shouldn't be a chance thing.
If someone wants to assign certain work to certain people, they should properly test said people's aptitude first. Don't put someone on a job because you're biased to believe they're particularly good for it, put someone on a job because they've been shown to have the skills that would make them ACTUALLY be particularly good for it.

Also, that last sentence nearly gave me a stroke. I assume "person of courage" is a typo and that it was meant to be "person of color", because the rest of the sentence is just slapping extra categories on top of "vision-impaired" so that you can get away with sounding reasonable while being bigoted. (After all, gender, dietary lifestyle and skin color _*do not affect someone's ability to fly a plane, perform surgery or basically any other occupational tasks.*_)
And if it's not a typo, the rest of the sentence is still bigoted bullshit.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

The last sentence was obviously mockery. I think person of courage sounds quite good. It might actually be used one day. I do not want to trademark it though.

As I said, a test would be ideal. But if testing is your criteria, you get a very African-American NBA, very Jewish and Asian universities etc. This has been declared problematic - at least if something is "too white". Just google it. Even bird-watching is too white.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Living in China I can confirm it is not a bias though.
> Looking at math grades or testing math ability would be ideal, but even if the manager didn´t, his chance of getting it right based on his bias/gut would be higher (than if he sought to give the work to a different person).
> Forcing equity will make life in America less efficient and more dangerous. Do you want your plane to be steered by the best pilot, your heart to be operated on by the best surgeon or by an affirmative action non-binary vegan vision-impaired person of courage?



why couldn't the best surgeon be an affirmative action non-binary vegan vision-impaired person of courage? if they are allowed to do the job, they meet all basic standards or better. does it freak you out that slightly disabled people, or people with different gender identities might be better than you? also, with American health care the way it is, it is bold of you to assume we get to choose who our surgeons are.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> why couldn't the best surgeon be an affirmative action non-binary vegan vision-impaired person of courage? if they are allowed to do the job, they meet all basic standards or better. does it freak you out that slightly disabled people, or people with different gender identities might be better than you?


because they are different, and different scares the insecurity


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Even bird-watching is too white.


The biggest straw man argument I've read all day. You have to know that the amount of people who genuinely think this is true is microscopic. But yeah, let's just generalize all liberals as thinking that bird-watching is too white.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> why couldn't the best surgeon be an affirmative action non-binary vegan vision-impaired person of courage? if they are allowed to do the job, they meet all basic standards or better. does it freak you out that slightly disabled people, or people with different gender identities might be better than you?


I want the best pilot. I don´t care about anything else regarding his person. But then you don´t get enough diversity - the end-all be-all of American ideology. Wouldn´t you be afraid if the person steering the plane got his job for any reason other test demonstrated capability?


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I want the best pilot. I don´t care about anything else regarding his person. But then you don´t get enough diversity - the end-all be-all of American ideology. Wouldn´t you be afraid if the person steering the plane got his job for any reason other test demonstrated capability?



why don't you get enough diversity? also you still need to complete all certifications and safety checks anyone else does.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> why don't you get enough diversity? also you still need to complete all certifications and safety checks anyone else does.


Because, on average, interests and capability regarding any field vary between ethnic groups, men and women.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

if you come from an Area that does not have diversity. People get scared from different views and might develop invalid and just pathetic Supremacist views.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Because, on average, interests and capability regarding any field vary between ethnic groups, men and women.



it sounds to me that you are implying that certain races aren't as capable of tasks as others. diversity is an ENTRY requirement, not an EXIT requirement. if the surgeon can't cut with accuracy, or the pilot fucks up his training, they can't continue their careers. you're hypothetical scenario doesn't exist in reality.

when is the last time you looked up the name of your pilot and said "i'm gonna cancel my flight, this guy looks iffy"?


----------



## driverdis (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I want the best pilot. I don´t care about anything else regarding his person. But then you don´t get enough diversity - the end-all be-all of American ideology. Wouldn´t you be afraid if the person steering the plane got his job for any reason other test demonstrated capability?



This is what the tech industry is doing. some of the big companies out there are creating diversity teams who look for making the workplace a more diverse area. That is not a problem at all, diversity is good as all people are equal and deserve equal chances.

The problem is that some of these companies have put in new policies to hire more black, LGBTQ, etc people even if their work skills, background knowledge, etc. is less than that of for example A white person that applies for the same position. Companies are feeling pressured into becoming more accepting via hiring more people based on gender, color, etc rather than skills and it will show in time for those that are hired into positions they cannot run without the prerequisite knowledge needed to do so.

I had a close friend of mine showed me the internal messages from "Cant say to avoid losing his job" about this exact thing. this is a tech company that deals with clients like Dell, Apple, etc. and they are going for the Flex Seal solution rather than having their diversity teams look at people's skill sets, etc. before choosing who to hire. depending on who gets hired for what this can cause issues down the road if those people can't acquire the skills needed on the job, which i am sure some will be but it will be harder to guess when skills are no longer the deciding factor and that external factors out of anyone's control are instead.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> it sounds to me that you are implying that certain races aren't as capable of tasks as others


Very important: On average.
If you just let the test result speak, you get e.g. a very African-American NBA.
It doesn´t mean you can also have an amazing Chinese player from time to time.
Why are they - on average - at a disadvantage? I haven´t looked into basketball, but height is an obvious one.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> *Donald trump banned from Twitter and Facebook* indefinitely. Good riddance.



"One day, it's like a miracle, it will disappear."

- Donald Trump


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Very important: On average.
> If you just let the test result speak, you get e.g. a very African-American NBA.
> It doesn´t mean you can also have an amazing Chinese player from time to time.
> Why are they - on average - at a disadvantage? I haven´t looked into basketball, but height is an obvious one.



like i said, the disadvantage comes at entry. not having enough money to pay application fee's, poor education in area's leading to worse test scores. remember that education and training is a 2 way street. you could have the potential to be the smartest person on the planet and get fucked by having shit teachers from k-12. affirmative action smooths the playing field so more talent is captured, not less.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> like i said, the disadvantage comes at entry. not having enough money to pay application fee's, poor education in area's leading to worse test scores. remember that education and training is a 2 way street. you could have the potential to be the smartest person on the planet and get fucked by having shit teachers from k-12. affirmative action smooths the playing field so more talent is captured, not less.


How is more talent captured if a person with better test scores is denied entry due to his ethnicity?
I agree that poverty increases the amount of undiscovered talents. But that is a question about government spending, not equality of outcome - which is directly and indirectly desired in America. Every average difference in outcome (i.e. something is e.g. "too white") is blamed on racism - except in the case of the NBA, of course.


----------



## Magnus87 (Jan 10, 2021)

Wrong Thread, Sorry


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How is more talent captured if a person with better test scores is denied entry due to his ethnicity?
> I agree that poverty increases the amount of undiscovered talents. But that is a question about government spending, not equality of outcome - which is directly and indirectly desired in America. Every average difference in outcome (i.e. something is e.g. "too white") is blamed on racism - except in the case of the NBA, of course.



because an SAT or ACT test score isn't a good gauge of how well a pilot or surgeon will do once they take the classes? you're equating college entry exams with graduated talent which is laughable.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> "One day, it's like a miracle, it will disappear."
> 
> - Donald Trump


I wonder if the WH staff took his phone.. because I would of thought he would of gone to Parler but nope.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

lol this made me laugh, I forgot about the Grammy

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/Scottreadsbooks/status/1347937780077359105


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> because an SAT test score isn't a good gauge of how well a pilot or surgeon will do once they take the classes? you're equating college entry exams with graduated talent which is laughable.


Your claim that diversity is only sought after at the entry, not the exit, is laughable.
E.g. An African-Americans woman has a much easier time to be employed as an IT specialist, even with lower test scores at the end of her training.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Your claim that diversity is only sought after at the entry, not the exit, is laughable.
> E.g. An African-Americans woman has a much easier time to be employed as an IT specialist, even with lower test scores at the end of her training.



source? 

my source is the ACT and SAT which are modified with affirmative action, where is affirmative action magically making black women instantly get jobs in IT?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> source?


Planet earth. Have you been hiding in the woods the past decade?


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Planet earth. Have you been hiding in the woods the past decade?



pull up some peer-reviewed stats that show AA participants are under qualified.

you can read up on some myths about AA here:

https://www.upstate.edu/diversityinclusion/policies-and-procedures/aa/myth_reality.php


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> pull up some peer-reviewed stats that show AA participants are under qualified.


I cannot. You win. I´m so sorry. I was actually just dreaming and then writing down nonsense. Please accept my apology.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I cannot. You win. I´m so sorry. I was actually just dreaming and then writing down nonsense. Please accept my apology.



apology accepted. glad you can start understanding the science.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

Pence’s decision to attend Biden’s swearing-in ceremony at the U.S. Capitol is yet another public break with President Donald Trump.

lol Trump is "winning" like Charlie Sheen


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

and there goes Parler from the Applestore. 
I can still access from the iPhone, wonder if Apple is going to do a complete kill switch and force it to be removed from phones.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

*Georgia Officials Reveal Third Trump Call Seeking to Influence Election Results
White House Forced Georgia U.S. Attorney To Quit: Report*
....im sure Trump was just "trying secure the election"...for himself..
DANG, that MAGA DAM is cracking by the second.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> and there goes Parler from the Applestore.
> I can still access from the iPhone, wonder if Apple is going to do a complete kill switch and force it to be removed from phones.



they probably won't, but AWS kicking them off would be hilarious.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> they probably won't, but AWS kicking them off would be hilarious.


really?? you said it out loud and God hear you .. lolol

*Amazon Is Booting Parler Off Of Its Web Hosting Service*


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 10, 2021)

A few weeks ago it was the tech giants testifying to Congress that they don't censor conservatives. Fast forward a few weeks and we have Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter and others banning users and entire apps/communities based on their political affiliation. Tens of millions of people have lost their voices due to censorship. Some have also been fired and lost their livelihood and source of income due to simply saying things that go against the Liberal agenda. You can claim a private company has the right to deny you freedom of speech, but then you're just justifying why you do not believe in freedom of speech. It's sad to say, but we've seen other one of the Liberals lies fall apart. Conservatives are being censored, their rights are being denied and some are having their livelihood taken from them simply for not being Liberals. This is the sort of evil people we've been dealing with for four years and suddenly you want peace and unity? Lol, good luck with that one.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

*Censoring conservatives and Censoring Seditious traitors are separate things. ........*


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> really?? you said it out loud and God hear you .. lolol
> 
> *Amazon Is Booting Parler Off Of Its Web Hosting Service*


Ahhhhhh... It's like a soothing balm.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> and suddenly you want peace and unity? Lol, good luck with that one.


Even Trump said: It is time for healing.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Even Trump said: It is time for healing.



we can start healing by having anyone who supported/didn't actively condemn the events in the capitol resign. after that is done, we can talk about healing fully.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:
			
		

> we can start healing by having anyone who supported/didn't actively condemn the events in the capitol resign. after that is done, we can talk about healing fully.



Are you referring to the assault on the federal building by a minority of Conservatives or the mainly peaceful protests around DC on the 6th? A lot of the people being banned for being Conservative denounced the violence, but supported the peaceful protesting.

As for cooperating with the Liberal left. It's not going to happen. Not unless they start to make amends for all of the shit they pulled in the last 4 years. That includes boycotting Trump's inauguration and planning to impeach Trump before he took office for any reason they could come up with simply because he won the election. Then there's all of the people who have had their voices silenced because they don't agree with the Liberal agenda. They need to be apologized to and given their right to free speech back to them.

Then there's the fake Russian collusion hoax and Biden's son Hunter who just today has been caught in sexual photos with children. The same Hunter who's dad Biden blackmailed Ukraine with not giving them aid until they gave his son a job. Then there's identity politics, putting mentally ill people in positions of power. I'm sure there much more things I've forgotten.

Basically, cooperation from my end isn't ever going to happen. We need to impeach Biden and then Harris as soon as possible - who cares if they didn't do anything wrong as the Liberals impeached Trump for simply winning the election. If they abused the impeachment process then we can too.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

lol This is funny and a bit scary.... Parler is losing their minds. Claiming Trump is going to declare Marshall law today by the Emergency Broadcast system as the start of the Civil war..
and APPLE is going to force an update to stop the Emergency Broadcast....

I am having the Best time watching Trolling Parler.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> If they abused the impeachment process then we can too.


not if Republicans don't  have to Numbers.... and they don't..


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> lol This is funny and a bit scary.... Parler is losing their minds. Claiming Trump is going to declare Marshall law today by the Emergency Broadcast system as the start of the Civil war..
> and APPLE is going to force an update to stop the Emergency Broadcast....



Most of what you post here is just spam or trolling or memes. You rarely post anything that's serious. I'm not sure why you get to spam and break forum rules, esp with the memes while other members get suspended for doing exactly what you've been doing for months.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Most of what you post here is just spam or trolling or memes. You rarely post anything that's serious. I'm not sure why you get to spam and break forum rules, esp with the memes while other members get suspended for doing exactly what you've been doing for months.


the quote that you are using is me providing information that is currently happening during the opposition of the Joe Biden President on Jan 20th.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

There is only a video of Joe Biden admitting to blackmailing Ukraine. But as long as there is no peer-reviewed study we cannot use this as evidence.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

There only .....several tapes, books and videos of Trump being sexist, racist and blackmailing Ukraine.... oh and GEORGIA call .. wait I mean  all three Georgia calls 

*Trump asked Ukraine president in phone call ‘if you can look into’ Biden and his son*

*Black Guys Counting My Money! I hate it.*
*New reports show other ways Trump tried to interfere in Ga. election *


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

I know, you had a choice between two criminals. Democracy, right?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

I rather choose the one that does not call for a coup on the Captiol.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 10, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> A few weeks ago it was the tech giants testifying to Congress that they don't censor conservatives. Fast forward a few weeks and we have Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter and others banning users and entire apps/communities based on their political affiliation.


"You can't ban me for inciting/participating in terrorist attacks, it's a requirement of my political affiliation!"


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> I rather choose the one that does not call for a coup on the Captiol.


You will never get out of the trap if you keep voting for the lesser evil. Stop voting or storm the capitol yourself.
People on both sides will find out they have been played once the USD plummets like a rock.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Are you referring to the assault on the federal building by a minority of Conservatives or the mainly peaceful protests around DC on the 6th? A lot of the people being banned for being Conservative denounced the violence, but supported the peaceful protesting.
> 
> As for cooperating with the Liberal left. It's not going to happen. Not unless they start to make amends for all of the shit they pulled in the last 4 years. That includes boycotting Trump's inauguration and planning to impeach Trump before he took office for any reason they could come up with simply because he won the election. Then there's all of the people who have had their voices silenced because they don't agree with the Liberal agenda. They need to be apologized to and given their right to free speech back to them.
> 
> ...



welp, enjoy being de-platformed, you guys are wilding out, and no one wants to get caught holding the bag. 130+ GOP reps in the house participated in the election fraud nonsense that lead to this. 7+ GOP senators wanted to fuck with the final EC vote, and at least hawley and Cruz worked to incite this violence. they must be held accountable or our democracy dies. this is non-negotiable.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

a coup is not the answer... 160 million people voted... 1,000 sore losers with Holocaust sweatshirts do not have the right to change that... next time vote.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> a coup is not the answer... 160 million people voted... 1,000 sore losers with Holocaust sweatshirts do not have the right to change that... next time vote.



If it quacks like a duck. The same folks denying the Holocaust are employing the same methodology to deny the election outcome.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The same Hunter who's dad Biden blackmailed Ukraine with not giving them aid until they gave his son a job.



He blackmailed _threatened to with withhold money from_ them to stop/remove a prosecutorial branch of the government from digging into Burisma, which would have implicated him and his son.  They are both implicated anyway, but that doesn't matter because politics isn't about morality.  It's about power.



djpannda said:


> a coup is not the answer... 160 million people voted... 1,000 sore losers with Holocaust sweatshirts do not have the right to change that... next time vote.



Vote is broken.  Over half the country doesn't think it's legitimate and the other side makes efforts to prevent discovery and transparency.  There is no room for the benefit of the doubt.  There is only subservience or disobedience.



Lumstar said:


> If it quacks like a duck. The same folks denying the Holocaust are employing the same methodology to deny the election outcome.



What does this mean, "same methodology"?  People who call others "Nazis" and liken Trump to Hitler are denying the holocaust, or at least throwing it under their soapboxes to prop themselves above talking policy.  The fascist ad-hominem doesn't even work because he literally cannot be a fascist.  He might want to be.  He might be trying to be.  Meanwhile tech and media oligarchies are demonstrating authoritarianism in action.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> What does this mean, "same methodology"?



it's a thing called "Big Lie". you might want to do a little reading about it.

*Method*


*Make a claim that is so outrageous that people will assume that it cannot be a lie, and so accept it as truth*. (voter fraud with no evidence, "millions of illegal immigrants are voting!")

*Strongly assert the lie.* Massage available data to 'prove' the lie as being true. (garbage court cases, secret proof, "we have the kracken")

Reframe *vigorous denial as proof of guilt.* (what are dominion and smartmatic hiding! don't look at ES&S though)

you morons have been being baited for years,

Obama's birth certificate, millions of illegal immigrants voting, hunter Biden's laptop (seriously i couldn't have come up with a flimsier story if i tried), tens of thousands of vote counters printing fake ballots, ect.

seriously trump and co come up with bullshit day after day and you guys keep donating your unemployment and welfare checks to the guy.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Vote is broken. Over half the country doesn't think it's legitimate and the other side makes efforts to prevent discovery and transparency.


Trump said the same thing before the 2016 election that he did before the 2020 election.  "If I lose, it's rigged."  Anybody who takes that type of logic seriously is an idiot.  Full stop.

There were Trump supporters in every single room where votes were being counted.  The same is true of every single room where votes were being recounted.  Despite their presence, they couldn't provide a single shred of evidence for voter fraud in the 60+ court cases they filed.  Trump fucking lost, and lost rather overwhelmingly.  Deal with it.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Trump said the same thing before the 2016 election that he did before the 2020 election.  "If I lose, it's rigged."  Anybody who takes that type of logic seriously is an idiot.  Full stop.
> 
> There were Trump supporters in every single room where votes were being counted.  The same is true of every single room where votes were being recounted.  Despite their presence, they couldn't provide a single shred of evidence for voter fraud in the 60+ court cases they filed.  Trump fucking lost, and lost rather overwhelmingly.  Deal with it.



and you wonder why i ask for peer-reviewed studies/ actual verifiable proof lol


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

It’s all fun and games (storming the Capitol and killing 5 people) .. until Twitter bans Trump .. than it’s a serious issue


----------



## Arm73 (Jan 10, 2021)

I feel liberated actually. Leaving aside my political beliefs, I'm glad all the drama it's over, let the government do its thing. Sure it could have gone the other way, but let's say I'm so disgusted by this travesty of an election that I'm manually purging all my YouTube subscriptions by unfollowing most political channels, which used to be 80% of my feeds. Now I'm left with that 20% made of video games news/reviews, arcade joysticks comparison, dieting and fasting techniques, astronomy, some Joe Rogan and a lot of Scott The Woz. Hell I'm even back on GBATemp after years of being away. And I joined this joint back in 2006 I believe, some of you weren't even borne yet


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> It’s all fun and games (storming the Capitol and killing 5 people) .. until Twitter bans Trump .. than it’s a serious issue


Killing 5 people? It seems 4 were on the side of protesters, one on the side of the cops.

Isn´t it weird how Western media never called the HK riots or BLM "deadly riots", even when they attacked and killed cops/civilians.


----------



## smf (Jan 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> That has a high level of failure...
> if he has claim mental issue, They will lock him up instantly .. never to be heard of again.



They sell guns to people with mental issues, why do you think they'd lock them up?



Arm73 said:


> but let's say I'm so disgusted by this travesty of an election



To be fair the election wasn't the problem, it was Trumps ability to convince people that there was an issue.



omgcat said:


> and you wonder why i ask for peer-reviewed studies/ actual verifiable proof lol



Trump would just say that the peers were lying, unless they agreed with him and then they would be heroes. Which is a poor strategy as nobody is never wrong.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Killing 5 people? It seems 4 were on the side of protesters, one on the side of the cops.



I'm not sure what your point is. 4+1=5  The assault on the capitol killed 5 people.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Isn´t it weird how Western media never called the HK riots or BLM "deadly riots", even when they attacked and killed cops/civilians.



I'm not aware of BLM protesters turning up armed with guns and pipe bombs.

BLM marches were against oppression while the assault on the capitol were oppressors, the Trump supporters might be dumb and brain washed into it but like muslims that are brainwashed into fighting for their cause they were the ones in the wrong.

It would only seem weird if you were also brainwashed.

BLM want to stop black people being killed during interactions with the police.
Trumps terrorists want to overturn a legitimate election.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

smf said:


> I'm not sure what your point is. 4+1=5  The assault on the capitol killed 5 people.


So if the re-capturing of CHAZ/CHOP (autonomous zone born via BLM) had caused the death of protesters, the protests would be called deadly? Yeah, right. Even after murders and rapes had been going on in this young state the media never called it deadly (it even called them romantic in the beginning).



smf said:


> I'm not aware of BLM protesters turning up armed with guns and pipe bombs.


There have been people shot and killed by BLM protesters (policemen and civilians). I don´t remember pipe bombs (HK riots had those though and were never called "deadly" either).



smf said:


> BLM marches were against oppression while the assault on the capitol were oppressors


In the eyes of the protesters - be it Trump supporters, BLM or HK protesters - they are the oppressed. Trump supporters thought the election had been stolen. Irrational? Maybe. So was 4 years of Russia gate propaganda.
There is a line you do not cross: attacking innocent people or launching assaults on government buildings.
All three riots have crossed this line.* I am the only one objective enough to say it.*


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 10, 2021)

Holy fuck. Why are we comparing normal riots with armed terrorists storming the capitol again? The people still defending this need a reality check. Both were completely different situations with different goals as pointed out many times. This must be a hell of a mix of kool aid, crack and copium.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

BLM terrorized and set on fire whole cities. The pictures and videos are still available at your finger tips. 
What are "normal riots" btw?
All three riots were "mostly peaceful" but brought death and destruction.


----------



## smf (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So if the re-capturing of CHAZ/CHOP (autonomous zone born via BLM) had caused the death of protesters, the protests would be called deadly?



Well the right wing anti BLM protesters did turn up armed, so really the anti protesters were deadly.

Less people died at BLM marches than police killed black people, while Trump supporters only attacked the capitol because Trump can't handle the truth. So you're always going to get a difference in reporting, even if that upsets you because you can't handle the truth.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> In the eyes of the protesters - be it Trump supporters, BLM or HK protesters - they are the oppressed.



Sure, but black people are oppressed while Trump supporters are entitled.

You could argue it's not their fault they are mentally weak and were brainwashed by Trump, but you have to take some responsibility for yourself.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> or launching assaults on government buildings.
> All three riots have crossed this line.* I am the only one objective enough to say it.*



You're not objective & you're far from the only person to have criticized the BLM marches. You're just trying to justify an armed assault on the capitol with whataboutism.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

smf said:


> Well the right wing anti BLM protesters did turn up armed, so really the anti protesters were deadly.


A moment ago you did not make this distinction! You called the capitol riots deadly. The capitol riots were called "deadly riots" by the media even at the time only one woman, a Trump supporter, had been shot and killed yet. You can check it via a search engine.
Please stick to one logic. 
By the way BLM protesters also killed people.



smf said:


> You're not objective & you're far from the only person to have criticized the BLM marches. You're just trying to justify an armed assault on the capitol with whataboutism.


No, I am the only person on this thread to condemn all three.


----------



## smf (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> A moment ago you did not make this distinction!



Isn't that how conversations work? You say something then later you say something else.
I can change my mind and restate a different view point later if I want as well.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You called the capitol riots deadly. The capitol riots were called "deadly riots" by the media even at the time only one woman, a Trump supporter, had been shot and killed yet. You can check it via a search engine.



deadly: causing or able to cause death.

Are you disputing it was deadly?

I don't remember calling them deadly, only agreeing with your description of them being deadly as people died.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Please stick to one logic.



If you're talking about different things then I'm not going to be constrained by a single view, things are not black and white.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> By the way BLM protesters also killed people.



I don't know what all the BLM protesters did, do you want to point out an example?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> No, I am the only person on this thread to condemn all three.



All three what?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 10, 2021)

smf said:


> I don't know what all the BLM protesters did, do you want to point out an example?


Don´t ask me for sources or peer-reviewed studies. 
I was online like all of you during the BLM protests. I remember a black officer bleeding to death being filmed by protesters, news about killed officers, a woman being shot in the head shortly after having said "all lives matter", shops being burned, shop owners (and their family members) being beaten, barricaded streets as far as the eye can see, kneeling cops, a BLM supporter´s window being smashed in (nominated for my video of the year), a reporter calling the riots "mostly" peaceful when it seemed like a scene taken from Naked Gun.



smf said:


> All three what?


I condemn all three riots: BLM, HK and the capitol riots. You don´t attack innocent people or attack government buildings. Unless you want anarchy (which I don´t).
All three were deadly and only I am ready to say so. Due to your bias you cannot abandon your double standard.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

Not that it really matters, but BLM protests absolutely were attended by armed participants.


  
 

I don't even think that's a problem either - I strongly support the right to bear arms. Problems arise when you use those arms in an illegal manner. Most protestors didn't, which is great. The first amendment empowers them to peaceably assemble and the second empowers them to carry and protect themselves and their rights, no complaints.

In regards to the damage done during the BLM riots, they've generated 1-2 billion dollars in damages across the United States, $500 million in Minneapolis alone, which makes them the highest recorded damages from civil disorder in U.S. history. "At least" 19 people have died during the riots - "at least" because it's difficult to tabulate which deaths were directly caused by riots and which were unrelated. Between murder, rape, looting, arson and storming government buildings like the police station in Seattle (which was completely taken over and transformed into a part of CHAZ) or the Portland courthouse (which was full of federal officers when protestors barricaded it from the outside and attempted to set it in fire) it wasn't exactly a "peaceful protest".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests

It's also interesting to note that at the time BLM marched hand in hand with the Boogaloo Bois, a group often characterised as part of the extremist right-wing, but I think it's far more accurate to simply call them anti-government. The reason why I point that out is because there's a perception that BLM protests were more partisan than they really were - anti-government sentiment exists on both sides of the aisle, especially when it comes to police brutality.

I also have to draw your attention to the katana, which is pretty dope, credit where credit is due.

It should be non-controversial to call out violence in both instances, but the BLM protests happened in the summer and the Capitol Hill protest happened just a few days ago, so focusing on the "now" is more important. The BLM ship has sailed, I don't think anyone's going to change their minds at this stage.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

Funny .. I love how all of you arguments are moot with one pic
 
Nazis


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Not that it really matters, but BLM protests absolutely were attended by armed participants.
> 
> View attachment 241248 View attachment 241249 View attachment 241252
> View attachment 241250 View attachment 241251
> ...



I think it's important to note, especially for those playing sides against each other for the sake of political/narrative leverage, that every protest is an opportunity for exploitation.  People who aren't averse to criminal/violent behavior will take advantage of the cover of a protest for various reasons.  Their actions do not represent the cause of the whole. 

It is an unfortunate reality that the protests of BLM has a higher degree of these instances, due to a couple of reasons outside of the groups control. 

The immediate problem I see is the media's response and obvious double-faced representation.  It should be no doubt to anyone that they are trying to manipulate the public for the sole reason of advocating their political/capital interests.  Anyone who goes along with this deception are either working for free (ripping themselves off), deluded, or being paid.  There is no incentive for these people to make our lives better.  There is only incentive to sell you news (outrage sells), and to influence political policy for their continued future.  When was the last time their "news" made your life better?  I welcome anecdotal responses.  This is a specific opinion I have, and have no interest in working to convince anyone who can't already see it.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

Of course. Small, fringe groups of violent protestors do not represent the entirety of a movement, I think that goes without saying. During the BLM riots a lot of people who weren't even part of the movement used the cover of chaos to cause damage or enrich themselves. Similarly, if 100,000 protestors all wanted to destroy the United States Capitol, it wouldn't be standing today - that's a sea of people, no amount of force can move a group like that without a bloodbath. In both cases we're talking about small fractions of the total.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

Remember when people were supporting Nazi.. so Shameful. The world fought The Nazis 75 years ago. Yet, people still find excuses for them. Remember “6MWNE” (6 million wasn’t enough) was the solgan. It does not matter if people thought it was only a small fringe.. it was drive factor of leadership


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

It's disgusting what authorities sat on, for who knows how long, only to put the person who provided for that kind of lifestyle to a position in office.  Joe is still covering for him.  It's disgusting, please remove it of your own volition.  The media won't touch this and that means they are also complicit in covering it up.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

I would appreciate it very much if explicit photos of Hunter Biden's sexcapades weren't posted on this website. I'll only give one warning.


----------



## scroeffie1984 (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I would appreciate it very much if explicit photos of Hunter Biden's sexcapades weren't posted on this website. I'll only give one warning.



thats what i thought


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I would appreciate it very much if explicit photos of Hunter Biden's sexcapades weren't posted on this website. I'll only give one warning.


wait what the fuck


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

scroeffie1984 said:


> thats what i thought


Anyone who wants to look up those photos can do so... elsewhere. This type of content goes directly against our policies regarding nudity, not to mention that some of it is of highly questionable legality. Needless to say, it's unsavoury and inappropriate.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I would appreciate it very much if explicit photos of Hunter Biden's sexcapades weren't posted on this website. I'll only give one warning.



"Sexcapades"?    Is that what we are calling pedophilic crimes against humanity?  Come on man.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "Sexcapades"?    Is that what we are calling pedophilic crimes against humanity?  Come on man.


GBAtemp does not and will not host sexually explicit content, particularly if there's an implication of it including minors - for *obvious* reasons.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

That's the best you can do.  I admit that I found out I was in a bad place as soon as I saw.


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## Doran754 (Jan 10, 2021)

Did I miss something, me making fun of a guy perpetrating a racist hoax because he's racist himself gets removed but the post openly calling people nazi's is fine to stay, oh yeah censorship only goes one way.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Did I miss something, me making fun of a guy perpetrating a racist hoax because he's racist himself gets removed but the post openly calling people nazi's is fine to stay, oh yeah censorship only goes one way.



I agree that one person who trolled was censored and the troll that he responded to was not.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Being a mod is so difficult.  He should probably just ban everyone.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Being a mod is so difficult.  He should probably just ban everyone.


Don't threaten me with a good time.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

That was not expected.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Anyway, as I mentioned before @shamzie, details like the holocaust are *insignificant* when it comes to labelling people Nazis for imagined virtue points.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I agree that one person who trolled was censored and the troll that he responded to was not.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Being a mod is so difficult.  He should probably just ban everyone.



It's really not that difficult, you just ignore your own biases. "Wow a guy making a joke about what a racist muppet Jussie was, I'll remove that"

"You're all nazis...... I see no problem with this"


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Did I miss something, me making fun of a guy perpetrating a racist hoax because he's racist himself gets removed but the post openly calling people nazi's is fine to stay, oh yeah censorship only goes one way.


I mean, the guy in the picture is obviously a Nazi. I have no trouble disowning Nazis, I'm Polish, I lived one hour away from a death camp, so I'm pretty sure I know what these guys are all about. I think it's intellectually dishonest and unfair to say that 100k people who came to protest at the Capitol Hill were all Nazis, in fact I think that's a ridiculous assessment, but that particular guy clearly is one. In the same vein it's unfair to say that every Democrat is a communist. Generalisations like that aren't productive.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

shamzie said:


> It's really not that difficult, you just ignore your own biases. "Wow a guy making a joke about what a racist muppet Jussie was, I'll remove that"
> 
> "You're all nazis...... I see no problem with this"


It's because he knows who is more prone to make charged accusations against him, and would rather buffer himself from that.  Human nature.  Too bad it lets the shitty people have "freer speech".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> I mean, the guy in the picture is obviously a Nazi. I have no trouble disowning Nazis, I'm Polish, I lived one hour away from a death camp, so I'm pretty well-versed in what these guys are all about. I think it's intellectually dishonest and unfair to say that 100k people who came to protest at the Capitol Hill were all Nazis, in fact I think that's a ridiculous assessment, but that particular guy clearly is one. In the same vein it's unfair to say that every Democrat is a communist. Generalisations like that aren't productive.


He's a white supremacist who is being edgy with Nazi symbolism.  Nazis gassed people.


----------



## notimp (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> You will never get out of the trap if you keep voting for the lesser evil. Stop voting or storm the capitol yourself.
> People on both sides will find out they have been played once the USD plummets like a rock.


Would have liked, if not for the last statement.  So who exactly is interested in the USD plummeting like a rock?

Chinese interests and affiliates? (Not even them because they need export markets.) So the going theory is still 'China infiltrated Biden, so Biden will ruin the US economy to the point where the USD plummets like a rock'?

And what bad 80s movie did you watch? As in seriously - not even the slightest idea of how inflating M1 works for the US, in an environment where at least half of the world is doing it?


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I mean, the guy in the picture is obviously a Nazi. I have no trouble disowning Nazis, I'm Polish, I lived one hour away from a death camp, so I'm pretty well-versed in what these guys are all about. I think it's intellectually dishonest and unfair to say that 100k people who came to protest at the Capitol Hill were all Nazis, in fact I think that's a ridiculous assessment, but that particular guy clearly is one. In the same vein it's unfair to say that every Democrat is a communist. Generalisations like that aren't productive.



Okay lets take you at your word that this guy is a "real nazi" despite the fact they pretty much died out 80 years ago, and im fairly confident this guy hasn't gassed any jews lately but still, lets say he 100% is one. Why was my post removed, is Jussie Smollet not a race baiting racist himself who perpetrated a hoax, where you drawing the line?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

I also thought my point about Dave Chappelle being kneed to the throat by the Hollywood Elite was relevent considered all the racism surrounding the crux of the election.


----------



## Ericzander (Jan 10, 2021)

If you guys knew Foxi you'd know he's not simply removing posts that he disagrees with or giving his preferred side more credence.

It just so happens that most of the outlandish and rule breaking posts (and unnecessary personal insults) are coming from a few of you on a particular side of the aisle. But I'm seeing posts removed from both sides due to bickering and rule breaking.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Okay lets take you at your word that this guy is a "real nazi" despite the fact they pretty much died out 80 years ago, and im fairly confident this guy hasn't gassed any jews lately but still, lets say he 100% is one. Why was my post removed, is Jussie Smollet not a race baiting racist himself who perpetrated a hoax, where you drawing the line?


He's the one who chose to dress like one, so he's identified as one. Your post was removed because it has nothing to do with the election season. You knew you were posting bait when you did it, don't act the fool. That'll be all, the decision is final and not up to further discussion.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> are coming from a few of you on a particular side of the aisle



Nah, that's disingenuous.  There are at least 3x more posts from people on the other side of the aisle claiming that his moderation tactics are bad.  I'm not even going that far.  I appreciate him.  I'm just spitting rhetoric for everyone to consider.  I love Foxi.  Hope he isn't disheartened by any of this.

*Snip!*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If I identify myself as "God", will you respect that as well?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

He already said no.  You could be right, but it doesn't matter @shamzie.  Moderators are working on their own time, and they don't owe anyone favors, unless law forces them to.


----------



## smf (Jan 10, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> All three were deadly and only I am ready to say so. Due to your bias you cannot abandon your double standard.



I fail to see the double standard, I didn't kill anyone, I am not a news reporter & I condemn anyone who murders anyone.

In terms of people killed per minute, the capitol attack seems deadlier.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Nah, that's disingenuous.  There are at least 3x more posts from people on the other side of the aisle claiming that his moderation tactics are bad.  I'm not even going that far.  I appreciate him.  I'm just spitting rhetoric for everyone to consider.  I love Foxi.  Hope he isn't disheartened by any of this.
> 
> *Snip!*
> 
> ...



I dont expect any favours, I expect to be treated equally. That's my own silly fault though.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Unfortunately, being threatened with legal accusations is a *convincing* tactic of the disingenuous people we engage here.  You should be proud on a personal level and not expect acknowledgement from those whose hands are coerced.


----------



## smf (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I would appreciate it very much if explicit photos of Hunter Biden's sexcapades weren't posted on this website.



I'm not convinced.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Don´t ask me for sources or peer-reviewed studies.



I'm not willing to discuss anything unless you have evidence, because I didn't really pay any attention to the BLM marches.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I dont expect any favours, I expect to be treated equally. That's my own silly fault though.


If you want to discuss the Smollett situation, you can do it in a dedicated thread - in fact, I vaguely remember there already was one. I don't have a problem with the subject matter, I have a problem with its relevance in regards to the election. If you don't understand that, it's not my job to *make you* understand, my job is to keep this thread clean and on-topic, and I intend to continue doing just that. When a post is removed and you choose to drag the subject on, you do it at your own peril. I've shown an exceedingly high degree of tolerance, to both sides, but I strongly advise not to test its limits.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Yeah, it's all pretty arbitrary.  Hopefully those who witness can see your intention, and those who are set against you, wouldn't be moved anyway.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, it's all pretty arbitrary.  Hopefully those who witness can see your intention, and those who are set against you, wouldn't be moved anyway.


Can't save everyone - his choice, not mine.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Can't save everyone - his choice, not mine.


It's hard for me not to consider both of your perspectives.  I don't blame either of you for being pitted against each other.  I blame politics.

But you are mod.  So you are *right*.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 10, 2021)

Trump was more upset that Capitol mob looked ‘low class’ than about violent attacks, reports say Advisers say the president was ‘turned off’ by the look of his supporters as they attacked the US Capitol


Why am I not surprised, he hates his supporters, but loves the (financial) support.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 10, 2021)

Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger just called Donald Trump 'the worst President ever' in powerful statement posted on Instagram

Arnie said: “As an immigrant to this country, I would like to say a few words to my fellow Americans, and to our friends around the world about the events of recent days."

“I grew up in Austria, he began. “I’m very aware of Kristallnacht, or the Night of Broken Glass.

“It was night of rampage against the Jews carried out in 1938 by the Nazi equivalent of the Proud Boys.

“Wednesday was the Day of Broken Glass right here in the United States.

“The broken glass was in the windows of the United States Capitol.

“But the mob did not just shatter the windows of the Capitol, they shattered the ideas we took for granted.

“They did not just break down the doors of the building that housed American democracy; they trampled the very principles on which our country was founded.”

After renouncing the riots, The Terminator star went on to talk about his own upbringing in Austria in the years immediately after WW2 ended.

“I grew up in the ruins of a country that suffered the loss of its democracy.

“I was born in 1947, two years after the Second World War. Growing up, I was surrounded by broken men drinking away the guilt over their participation in the most evil regime in history.

“Not all of them were rabid anti-Semites or Nazis, many just went along, step-by-step, down the road.

“They were the people next-door.”

He explained how his father and neighbours were troubled by what they saw and did in the war and how the same powers which saw them turn a blind eye to the holocaust were in office in the US today.

He went on: “It all stared with lies, and lies, and lies and intolerance. Being from Europe I have seen firsthand how things can spin out of control.

“I know there is a fear in this country and all over the world that something like this could happen right here.

“Now, I do not believe it is, but I do believe that we must be aware of the dire consequences of selfishness and cynicism.

“President Trump sought to overturn the results of an election and of a fair election.

“He sought a coup by misleading people with lies. My father and our neighbours were also mislead with lies, and I know where such lies lead.

“President Trump is a failed leader. He will go down in history as the worst president ever.

“The good thing is he will soon be as irrelevant as an old tweet,” he said of the disgraced president.

“But what are we to make of those elected officials who have enabled his lies and his treachery?

“I will remind them of what Teddy Roosevelt said, ‘Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president.’

“A number of members of my own party, because of their own spinelessness will never see their names in such a book, I guarantee you.

“They’re complicit with this who carried the flag of self-righteous insurrection into the Capitol. But it did not work. Our democracy held firm.”

He then pledged his support for President-Elect Biden and called for unity as America enters its next chapter.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 10, 2021)

omgcat said:


> Trump was more upset that Capitol mob looked ‘low class’ than about violent attacks, reports say Advisers say the president was ‘turned off’ by the look of his supporters as they attacked the US Capitol
> 
> 
> Why am I not surprised, he hates his supporters, but loves the (financial) support.


If this is true, what did he hope for? Everyone getting and wearing expensive suits before attacking the Capitol?


----------



## Xzi (Jan 10, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> If this is true, what did he hope for? Everyone getting and wearing expensive suits before attacking the Capitol?


I'm sure he at least expected his supporters to spraypaint all their clothes gold.  Instant classiness. /s


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 10, 2021)

I sure hope trump has the 25th involked on him i'd hate for a round 2 of trump 2024 (pretty sure he'll invite the russians north koreans etc to topple the governement next time,though i doubt that will occur because of one key factor he has a lot of inditements mostly felonies and as you might know having even one felonious conviction axes your political career


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> I sure hope trump has the 25th involked on him i'd hate for a round 2 of trump 2024 (pretty sure he'll invite the russians north koreans etc to topple the governement next time,though i doubt that will occur because of one key factor he has a lot of inditements mostly felonies and as you might know having even one felonious conviction axes your political career


This is incorrect. So far Donald Trump has zero indictments or criminal convictions. It's entirely possible that he might face some trumped up charges after January 20th, but I wouldn't hold my breath if you're counting on seeing him wearing orange besides his skin.


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> but I wouldn't hold my breath if you're counting on seeing him wearing orange besides his skin.


his spray tan says otherwise


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2021)

CPG said:


> his spray tan says otherwise


That would be his skin. Which is a beautiful shade of orange.

Stop ruining my jokes.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 10, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> I sure hope trump has the 25th involked on him i'd hate for a round 2 of trump 2024


I still think he'll be dead or a potato by then, but even if things don't shake out that way, allowing him to run again would tear the GOP apart.  So if they want to lose every election for roughly the next fifty years, I say go for it.  Only time will tell if the party's leadership is really _that_ stupid.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 10, 2021)

really wanna bet? @Foxi4 if he doesnn't i'll remove my acconut (frankly the thought crossed my mind with the toxic) nature now if he gets charged with anything within a week of especially a felony of hsi leaving the WH you will admit your wrong and hopefully see the evil trump is and the danger he poses (that light compaired to the want of your mod privileges removed but i feel thats a little harsh on my end


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 10, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> really wanna bet? @Foxi4 if he doesnn't i'll remove my acconut (frankly the thought crossed my mind with the toxic) nature now if he gets charged with anything within a week of especially a felony of hsi leaving the WH you will admit your wrong and hopefully see the evil trump is and the danger he poses (that light compaired to the want of your mod privileges removed but i feel thats a little harsh on my end


I at least partially agree with you (about Trump getting his ass handed to him, not about Foxi getting demoted) but oh my god I had around three separate strokes trying to read that
and even after I deciphered what it meant, jeez that's _more_ than a little harsh (about Foxi, not Trump- there isn't really all that much that'd be too harsh for Trump to deserve at this point)
all that's really happened in terms of posts getting deleted and whatnot amounts to people blatantly breaking rules or behaving poorly and suddenly going all surprised pikachu face when they suffer the consequences they had literally just been reminded about



Foxi4 said:


> That would be his skin. Which is a beautiful shade of orange.
> 
> Stop ruining my jokes.


IIRC it's the result of a really overdone and/or poorly done machine-bronzing or something along those lines
Might not allow for heho orange skin man funi jokes, but bronzing jokes do pair nicely with the jokes about wanting the rioters to spray themselves gold!


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 10, 2021)

as i said i agree demotion is too harsh all I want is a "you were right all along"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

maybe i should put all of you Trumpkins in this too

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@SG854,Morivan,Ultrasupera I'm talking to you three in general

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

but i had a few things in mind like separate rules and more scrutiny in this toxic cestpool of a sub forum

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

'll stop for now


----------



## arcanine (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It's entirely possible that he might face some trumped up charges


You cannot be serious. He is obviously a criminal.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 10, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> This is incorrect. So far Donald Trump has zero indictments or criminal convictions. It's entirely possible that he might face some trumped up charges after January 20th, but I wouldn't hold my breath if you're counting on seeing him wearing orange besides his skin.


No public indictment... but little birdies state he has sealed indictment waiting for 1/20
*The Sealed Indictment: How Trump Could Be Secretly Charged*
And before people say it’s made up .... the charges that sealed indictment would stem from is 
*The final chapter: Judge's ruling that Donald Trump must pay $2 million to charities ends troubled foundation's saga*


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jan 10, 2021)

with the way things are, somebody gonna end up assassinating somebody over trump


trump is the only person who can make getting hit by a banhammer an international incident


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 10, 2021)

Corporations seems to be punishing the instigators more than the actual government right now.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Corporations seems to be punishing the instigators more than the actual government right now.


Had to reread this because I was like "well how are they supposed to punish the government?" but yeah
by the time private corps are doing more for justice and reason than the actual freaking gov't something has gone horribly wrong


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

Oh lookie...
*GOP representative: Some Republicans voted to challenge election results due to safety concerns*
Wait I heard that defense before.....
*How the Nazi’s defense of ‘just following orders’ plays out.*


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 11, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Okay lets take you at your word that this guy is a "real nazi" despite the fact they pretty much died out 80 years ago, and im fairly confident this guy hasn't gassed any jews lately but still, lets say he 100% is one. Why was my post removed, is Jussie Smollet not a race baiting racist himself who perpetrated a hoax, where you drawing the line?


You realize Neo-Nazis are a thing, right? Like people post-Nazi Germany that still follow Nazi beliefs, those are a thing. This is a real group of people and have been a real group of people since the fall of Nazi Germany. Hell, there isn’t even just one group of Neo-Nazis, there’s quite a few of them. Neo-nazis have a long history of blending in or being part of groups closely aliened with the Far-Right, Alt-Right, White Nationalists, and even Trump Supporters. Some even have claimed to be Democrats, but that’s most likely trolling as they always end up supporting the Republican Party or a Far-Right candidate.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

WTF as Amandarose say,  the son of a NAZI soldier, Arnold Schwarzenegger just flat out Publicly called his own party has following Nazi's playbook.
This is the motherF#$King Terminator!!  
“I grew up in Austria and was very aware of Kristallnacht, or the Night of Broken Glass, It was a night of rampage against the Jews carried out [by] the Nazi equivalent of the Proud Boys. 
“President Trump is a failed leader. He will go down in history as the worst president ever. The good thing is he soon will be as irrelevant as an old tweet.”


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 11, 2021)

I found this on Facebook.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I found this on Facebook.
> View attachment 241330


man you are really stretching to justify a seditious failed coup...


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 11, 2021)

djpannda said:


> man you are really stretching to justify a seditious failed coup...


When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
When the government fears the people, there is liberty.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I found this on Facebook.
> View attachment 241330


So you are saying a peaceful march to the capital for women's rights is comparable to an angry mob who had guns and pipe bombs and were trying to illegally overturn the results of an election. Sorry to compare the both is moronic.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
> When the government fears the people, there is liberty.


There was nothing about the deadly insurrection this week that had anything to do with "liberty." The opposite, in fact.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> So you are saying a peaceful march to the capital for women's rights is comparable to an angry mob who had guns and pipe bombs and were trying to illegally overturn the results of an election. Sorry to compare the both is moronic.


..yes

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
> When the government fears the people, there is liberty.


Q. What happens when people fear lies they been fed.?
A.1/6/21


----------



## tabzer (Jan 11, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> It was night of rampage against the Jews carried out in 1938 by the Nazi equivalent of the Proud Boys.
> 
> “Wednesday was the Day of Broken Glass right here in the United States.
> 
> “The broken glass was in the windows of the United States Capitol.



*Interesting* parallel.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> really wanna bet? @Foxi4 if he doesnn't i'll remove my acconut (frankly the thought crossed my mind with the toxic) nature now if he gets charged with anything within a week of especially a felony of hsi leaving the WH you will admit your wrong and hopefully see the evil trump is and the danger he poses (that light compaired to the want of your mod privileges removed but i feel thats a little harsh on my end


I will be extremely surprised if anything sticks to Teflon, but I'm not interested in you staking your account on something this insignificant. I consider fantasies like this to be weird revenge porn - people get off on it for some reason. I also don't care what happens to Trump after he's finished doing his job, or any other politician at the end of their term for that matter. Your other opinions are noted - I'll add them to the list.


arcanine said:


> You cannot be serious. He is obviously a criminal.


What does that have to do with anything? Congress and the White House are full of criminals as far as I'm concerned. My position has always been that if I'm sending someone into a pit of snakes, I want them to be as venomous as possible. I want the best swindler around to swindle on my behalf. I can't complain about the results, he did about what I expected him to do.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I will be extremely surprised if anything sticks to Teflon, but I'm not interested in you staking your account on something this insignificant. I consider fantasies like this to be weird revenge porn - people get off on it for some reason. Your other opinions are noted - I'll add them to the list..



wait ...your keeping a list .....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



walks away


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2021)

djpannda said:


> wait ...your keeping a list .....walks away


I like going through it when I want to have a hearty chuckle. You'd be surprised by the sort of inventive names I've been called over the years. This is a hint - I love and collect Hate Mail.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 11, 2021)

So it turns out the control freak Liberals who don't allow for any difference in opinions or freedom of speech have shut down a Conservative social media platform. It wasn't enough to harass and ban Conservatives from main stream social media where the Liberals have power, but they had to also follow and use any chance they could to take down where the Conservative's moved to. The Liberals aren't happy unless they are destroying something or telling someone what to do and that happiness only lasts a fleeting moment because it's been derived from evil and Godless acts. The sad part is they think they are winning when all they are doing is losing their souls.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@Foxi4

I've seen other Conservatives have their MEMES removed from this section of the forum as they were told there's a no MEME in the Political Section rule. So why is it that the Liberals get to post MEMES here?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



			
				AmandaRose said:
			
		

> So you are saying a peaceful march to the capital for women's rights is comparable to an angry mob who had guns and pipe bombs and were trying to illegally overturn the results of an election. Sorry to compare the both is moronic.



99% of the protests on the 6th were peaceful protests. Only a small fraction of the protests turned into rioting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



			
				AmandaRose said:
			
		

> So you are saying a peaceful march to the capital for women's rights is comparable to an angry mob who had guns and pipe bombs and were trying to illegally overturn the results of an election. Sorry to compare the both is moronic.



99% of the protests on the 6th were peaceful protests. Only a small fraction of the protests turned into rioting.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it turns out the control freak Liberals who don't allow for any difference in opinions or freedom of speech have shut down a Conservative social media platform. It wasn't enough to harass and ban Conservatives from main stream social media where the Liberals have power, but they had to also follow and use any chance they could to take down where the Conservative's moved to. The Liberals aren't happy unless they are destroying something or telling someone what to do and that happiness only lasts a fleeting moment because it's been derived from evil and Godless acts. The sad part is they think they are winning when all they are doing is losing their souls.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Yup that what usually happen.. the side with Nazi tend to lose.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
> When the government fears the people, there is liberty.


Trying overthrow an election because your candidate didn’t win isn’t overthrowing tyranny. In fact that’s literally how you overthrow liberty.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
> When the government fears the people, there is liberty.


bro you're talking about reinstating a current leader
the government won't fear you if you're enthusiastically licking the leader's boots


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

*JPMorgan joins Citibank in rush to stop donations to the 'treason caucus' who voted to overturn the election - as online finance firm Stripe announces they will no longer process payments for Trump campaign website*
..people are saying without Big Bank backing the Republicans... they might just resign as most were just trying to pimp out there congress accounts to begin with.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 11, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it turns out the control freak Liberals who don't allow for any difference in opinions or freedom of speech have shut down a Conservative social media platform. It wasn't enough to harass and ban Conservatives from main stream social media where the Liberals have power, but they had to also follow and use any chance they could to take down where the Conservative's moved to. The Liberals aren't happy unless they are destroying something or telling someone what to do and that happiness only lasts a fleeting moment because it's been derived from evil and Godless acts. The sad part is they think they are winning when all they are doing is losing their souls.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


BECAUSE LIBERALS ARE NOT SORE LOSERS WE DON'T GO STORMING THE CAPITOL everytime would it be bush (both) or even trump well maybe not him their were protest cause well we knew this sshit would happen if we enabled him but we mainly except for those wackjob few grinned and beared 4 years of pure hell scared of the world was going to end (if trump was really unchecked it would've been) anywas both clinton and obama did peaceful transfers pretty much since we were a country all transitions were peaceful then you have this fat  man baby throwing his fit because his turn to have the ball is over

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...achment-25th-amendment-nobles-sot-tsr-vpx.cnn good point pelosi

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> WTF as Amandarose say,  the son of a NAZI soldier, Arnold Schwarzenegger just flat out Publicly called his own party has following Nazi's playbook.
> This is the motherF#$King Terminator!!
> “I grew up in Austria and was very aware of Kristallnacht, or the Night of Broken Glass, It was a night of rampage against the Jews carried out [by] the Nazi equivalent of the Proud Boys.
> “President Trump is a failed leader. He will go down in history as the worst president ever. The good thing is he soon will be as irrelevant as an old tweet.”



he's still CA's govenator? how many years has it been shame he isn't a natural born citizen he'd be a hell of a lot better than trump


----------



## Chary (Jan 11, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> he's still CA's govenator? how many years has it been shame he isn't a natural born citizen he'd be a hell of a lot better than trump


He’d probably be a super interesting candidate if he could run. Movie star, years of involvement in politics, lovable—reminds me of Ronald Reagan, just by those points alone. Also, like. The literal Terminator. It’d be the first 100% unanimous vote sweep


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 11, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> he's still CA's govenator? how many years has it been shame he isn't a natural born citizen he'd be a hell of a lot better than trump


I would vote for him, ngl./joke That being said, anyone would be a better president than Trump. I would be a better president than Trump and I am literally an unstable demon with identity issues. Imagine a president who instead of tweeting nonsense, tweets nonsense with anime girls.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 11, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I would vote for him, ngl. That being said, anyone would be a better president than Trump. I would be a better president than Trump and I am literally an unstable demon with identity issues. Imagine a president who instead of tweeting nonsense, tweets nonsense with anime girls.


Arnold Schwarzenegger seriously fucked up California's economy with Reagan-style economic policies, do not vote based on the Charisma stat.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 11, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Arnold Schwarzenegger seriously fucked up California's economy with Reagan-style economic policies, do not vote based on the Charisma stat.


Yeah, my post was meant to be a joke and I was hoping it would be obvious. I added a "/joke" where the joke starts and ends.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 11, 2021)

Apparently off-duty cops were part of the riot.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 11, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> BECAUSE LIBERALS ARE NOT SORE LOSERS WE DON'T GO STORMING THE CAPITOL



So hold on a second... Are you saying that "Liberals" actually have a seperate party? Because last I've checked "Liberals" are actually Liberal Republicans. Yes, Republicans none the less.


----------



## arcanine (Jan 11, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> What does that have to do with anything? Congress and the White House are full of criminals as far as I'm concerned. My position has always been that if I'm sending someone into a pit of snakes, I want them to be as venomous as possible. I want the best swindler around to swindle on my behalf. I can't complain about the results, he did about what I expected him to do.


You said "trumped up charges", which implies you believe they will be false or exaggerated. As for being fine with him being a criminal so that he can "swindle on your behalf", well I guess if you want a sociopath as a leader and vote for one, then that's what you get. And fuck everyone and everything else as long as you get what you want, right? Also, if you think he's swindling on anybody's behalf other than his own then you are mistaken.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 11, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I would be a better president than Trump and I am literally an unstable demon with identity issues. Imagine a president who instead of tweeting nonsense, tweets nonsense with anime girls.


Hey now, don't underestimate the bipartisan appeal of anime girls.  



KingVamp said:


> Apparently off-duty cops were part of the riot.


_Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses.
_
The line might need to be updated from "some" to "most" though, considering 80% of cops voted for Trump in 2016.  Probably about the same in 2020.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 11, 2021)

In other news, DC and PR statehood is looking more likely.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 11, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> You realize Neo-Nazis are a thing, right? Like people post-Nazi Germany that still follow Nazi beliefs[...]


Like the belief that Russians are inferior and Russia needs to be split up. This is the belief of Western mainstream media and politics. German soldiers and tanks are at the Russian border again - they didn´t even wait till all veterans had died. I have noticed that among the so-called far-right there is a higher percentage of non-interventionism. Therefore they are ironically further away from actual Nazis than the mainstream or center.

Nazism was just another shade of Western imperialism. After all, they did consider uniting with Germany while the Soviets came closer and closer to Berlin.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

so
it might be a lot easier to figure out who was part of the riot
because Parler just got hit by
it just got struck by
a smooth data-scrape


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> So hold on a second... Are you saying that "Liberals" actually have a seperate party? Because last I've checked "Liberals" are actually Liberal Republicans. Yes, Republicans none the less.


nah, american politics is so weirdly polarized that "liberals" is really just synonymous with "democrats" at this point
there _*used*_ to be liberal republicans and conservative democrats, but that was at a time where we weren't all chronically addicted to two-party opposition


----------



## Fire-WSP (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> German soldiers and tanks are at the Russian border again - they didn´t even wait till all veterans had died.


 If there are some, they are part of european/international aliances. The German Bundeswehr is no thread to anybody. A the current state Germany could not even defend itself from an invader. Also they would not be there if there would be no thread. The present agressor is Putin. I do not say Russians on purpose. Most people in Russia have not even the chance for fair votes. It is always madnes to bet on war and violance instread of proper development of the country and wellbeing of the own people. (North Korea is the worst example).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2021)

arcanine said:


> You said "trumped up charges", which implies you believe they will be false or exaggerated. As for being fine with him being a criminal so that he can "swindle on your behalf", well I guess if you want a sociopath as a leader and vote for one, then that's what you get. And fuck everyone and everything else as long as you get what you want, right? Also, if you think he's swindling on anybody's behalf other than his own then you are mistaken.


A good swindler is slippery enough to have plausible deniability. In my estimation Trump hasn't done anything illegal when in office, and if he did, there's nothing that he could be confidently charged with without a shadow of a doubt. He'll be fine. The rest is a matter of opinion in regards to how the country should operate.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 11, 2021)

... As a Eurasian, I'm Commenting to officially lament the misuse of the Swastika symbol by the Nazis.

Who would've thought that a run of 24 Centuries, from 500 BCE to 1900, of being a Good Luck sign would end in a War that is comparably a blink of one's eye in span.

Next you'll be telling me that Pink, a Light version of Red that is used to signify Youth Masculinity will be swapped out by Light Blue, a lighter version of an already Feminine colour.

Oh wait.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 11, 2021)

Fire-WSP said:


> If there are some, they are part of european/international aliances. The German Bundeswehr is no thread to anybody. A the current state Germany could not even defend itself from an invader. Also they would not be there if there would be no thread. The present agressor is Putin. I do not say Russians on purpose. Most people in Russia have not even the chance for fair votes. It is always madnes to bet on war and violance instread of proper development of the country and wellbeing of the own people. (North Korea is the worst example).


It is a fact that in case of war tens of millions of Germans and Russians would die again. Maybe after 3 World Wars Germans will finally rethink Western imperialism.
It is a typical tactic of Western imperialism to say "we oppose your *insert leader or government system*, not you!". Despite a bad economic situation and harsh retirement reforms, Putin is still very popular. What happened in Ukraine was not democracy at play but a coup with foreign involvement, and resisting it something most Russians agreed with. They simply could not have NATO troops - which from a Russian perspective are reminiscent of the WW1&2 Germans (in that their goal is to split Russia up) in the Donbass.
Imagine Russia had sent politicians to Capitol Hill (if the Trump supporters had had more stamina than 3 hours) cheering on the crowd, giving them equipment and money (and perhaps snipers in buildings shooting at both sides to escalate the situation).
And before you tell me: It happened in Ukraine, not Russia: same thing. Then exchange Capitol Hill with Ottawa. Ukrainians are Russians just as Canadians are Americans. Historic events have made them live in different states, in the case of Ukraine: German troops blasting through Russian lands and determining Ukrainian borders. The "same" (from a Russian perspective) German troops that killed tens of millions of Russians and would today be stationed in the Donbass and Crimea if Putin had not been "aggressive".


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

anyway bring the topic back to what really matter..
The Failed Coup..
Have you seen the videos of MAGAs upset that they were placed on the terrorist no-fly list..
They has been Hiiiiiilarious! 
Suck it, sugar. https://t.co/K33WKXcvBi pic.twitter.com/UIPMMVKfmh— George Hahn (@georgehahn) January 11, 2021


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> ... As a Eurasian, I'm Commenting to officially lament the misuse of the Swastika symbol by the Nazis.
> 
> Who would've thought that a run of 24 Centuries, from 500 BCE to 1900, of being a Good Luck sign would end in a War that is comparably a blink of one's eye in span.
> 
> ...


...next you'll tell me we're so obsessed with heteronormative gender expression traits that we'll gender basically anything, up to and including _*colors*_ and then try to *act as if that actually makes any sense at all*
Oh wait.

this wasn't even meant to cause a reaction or anything
I just think the whole "let's slap stereotypical masculinity/femininity on everything" societal mindset is incredibly stupid and I'm not going to _not _mention it when given a clear and appropriate opportunity


----------



## omgcat (Jan 11, 2021)

https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-...eos-and-posts-leaked-by-security-researchers/

I'm fucking dying. I knew they scraped data but 70TB!?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 11, 2021)

omgcat said:


> https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-...eos-and-posts-leaked-by-security-researchers/
> 
> I'm fucking dying. I knew they scraped data but 70TB!?


I was reading that !!! I think this might be bigger and more entertaining then Nintendos Gigaleak!!!!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> ...



You'll get no rise from me, especially on an unrelated Thread.
Carry on.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

omgcat said:


> https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-...eos-and-posts-leaked-by-security-researchers/
> 
> I'm fucking dying. I knew they scraped data but 70TB!?


they've scraped nearly everything on Parler, of course it's that huge
iirc it's like ~99.9% of the site as a whole and all the stuff on it
both good and bad news is that this includes the personal info of all users that put personal info on there, and parler's boneheaded policies mean that the equivalent of a twitter verification requires a _*government-provided ID of some kind*_ which is both great for, say, identifying the Capitol rioters and awful for, say, any innocent people that end up doxxed because some schmuck abuses the fact that all this info will be completely public when the archive finishes


----------



## arcanine (Jan 11, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> A good swindler is slippery enough to have plausible deniability. In my estimation Trump hasn't done anything illegal when in office, and if he did, there's nothing that he could be confidently charged with without a shadow of a doubt. He'll be fine. The rest is a matter of opinion in regards to how the country should operate.


Oh come off it. The guy's a psychopath and represents the worst of human nature. He's a piece of shit, and anyone who can't see that or endorses his behaviour is probably one too. Also, "how the country is run" is not the only consideration. We all share this planet with each other and other forms of life, and his behaviour affects all of us in various ways and to varying degrees. "America first" is obnoxious nationalism.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 11, 2021)

https://www.politico.com/states/new...tion-launches-probe-to-expel-giuliani-1354849


----------



## rensenware (Jan 11, 2021)

I'd support a censorship-free effort akin to Parler if it wasn't just a proprietary, data-mining shithole like every other social media service. It's ridiculous that anyone thought Parler was going to work.


----------



## Ecchi95 (Jan 11, 2021)

Idk if I posted here already or not, but I voted for Biden and MAGA tears are delicious.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 11, 2021)

so all the scrapped parlor data includes metadata such as GPS COORDINATES of the phones used when posting. AWS also requires all posts and data to be archived, and it will be handed off to the FBI. these people are FUCKED.

also:

Parler investor Dan Bongino, a Fox News commentator and former NYPD police officer, said in a Parler post on Saturday — shared on Twitter by BuzzFeed reporter John Paczkowski — that the company was “not done with Apple and Google” and encouraged users to “Stay tuned to hear what’s coming.” One user replied: “It would be a pity if someone with explosives training were to pay a visit to some AWS Data Centers - the location of which are public knowledge.”


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

omgcat said:


> so all the scrapped parlor data includes metadata such as GPS COORDINATES of the phones used when posting. AWS also requires all posts and data to be archived, and it will be handed off to the FBI. these people are FUCKED.
> 
> also:
> 
> Parler investor Dan Bongino, a Fox News commentator and former NYPD police officer, said in a Parler post on Saturday — shared on Twitter by BuzzFeed reporter John Paczkowski — that the company was “not done with Apple and Google” and encouraged users to “Stay tuned to hear what’s coming.” One user replied: “It would be a pity if someone with explosives training were to pay a visit to some AWS Data Centers - the location of which are public knowledge.”


>One user replied: “It would be a pity if someone with explosives training were to pay a visit to some AWS Data Centers - the location of which are public knowledge.”
*AND THEY WONDER WHY THE PLATFORM FULL TO THE BRIM OF THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE KEEPS GETTING BANNED, BLOCKED OR OTHERWISE TECHNOLOGICALLY ASPHYXIATED!*
"the social media platform I'm on, stuffed with hatred and misinformation, died off because it was connected to politically motivated violence! time to fix things with MORE POLITICALLY MOTIVATED VIOLENCE!"


----------



## omgcat (Jan 11, 2021)




----------



## Relys (Jan 11, 2021)

omgcat said:


>



I've noticed in a lot of those cases it was just part of a larger bot purge as opposed to actual users. lol


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 11, 2021)

I wonder how many would keep with this same narrative if it was lgbt people being censored simply for being lgbt.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> I wonder how many would keep with this same narrative if it was lgbt people being censored simply for being lgbt.


Far less (hopefully), because there's a significant difference between being censored for who you _are_ and being censored for what you _say._ Someone being LGBT and stating it, or even being vocal about it, is simply stating facts of their existence. Someone spouting hate speech and misinformation is perfectly capable of NOT doing so, but chooses to be an asshole.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 11, 2021)

arcanine said:


> Oh come off it. The guy's a psychopath and represents the worst of human nature. He's a piece of shit, and anyone who can't see that or endorses his behaviour is probably one too. Also, "how the country is run" is not the only consideration. We all share this planet with each other and other forms of life, and his behaviour affects all of us in various ways and to varying degrees. "America first" is obnoxious nationalism.


Is that not bog standard politician?

To want the job you pretty much have to be a narcissist, by more than willing to compromise on any kind of morally held position, and psychopathy certainly does not hurt in such matters.

The two or three times a cycle it happens they tend not to stick around for the next, or embrace the inner arsehole and roll with it.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Far less (hopefully), because there's a significant difference between being censored for who you _are_ and being censored for what you _say._ Someone being LGBT and stating it, or even being vocal about it, is simply stating facts of their existence. Someone spouting hate speech and misinformation is perfectly capable of NOT doing so, but chooses to be an asshole.


Just want to be clear, I meant "how many on the right would be fine with big tech censoring LGBT?".


----------



## arcanine (Jan 11, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> Is that not bog standard politician?
> 
> To want the job you pretty much have to be a narcissist, by more than willing to compromise on any kind of morally held position, and psychopathy certainly does not hurt in such matters.
> 
> The two or three times a cycle it happens they tend not to stick around for the next, or embrace the inner arsehole and roll with it.


Yes, disordered empathy seems to be a preprequisite for the position. The difference is, I'm not trying to make excuses for it.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 11, 2021)

arcanine said:


> Yes, disordered empathy seems to be a preprequisite for the position. The difference is, I'm not trying to make excuses for it.


You don't have to make excuses for it. If it is predictable it might not be ideal but you can work with it.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 11, 2021)

djpannda said:


> anyway bring the topic back to what really matter..
> The Failed Coup..
> Have you seen the videos of MAGAs upset that they were placed on the terrorist no-fly list..
> They has been Hiiiiiilarious!
> https://twitter.com/georgehahn/status/1348431312709799937


oh i wish i could find a Disney aladdin meme saying "you wanted to be a terrorist? you get everything that comes with it"


----------



## arcanine (Jan 11, 2021)

FAST6191 said:


> You don't have to make excuses for it. If it is predictable it might not be ideal but you can work with it.


I know I don't. I was referring to this:



Foxi4 said:


> A good swindler is slippery enough to have plausible deniability. In my estimation Trump hasn't done anything illegal when in office, and if he did, there's nothing that he could be confidently charged with without a shadow of a doubt. He'll be fine. The rest is a matter of opinion in regards to how the country should operate.



which reads to me like a much lower moral standard than is reasonable. "Slippery enough not to get caught behaving immorally and not necessarily carrying out criminal acts at the moment and probably not going to go to prison" is a shit benchmark, and stinks of making excuses for somebody who you know is morally bankrupt but whose policies you nonetheless support because it suits you to do so.

As for being able to work with it - I disagree. These people are sanctioning activitiy which is killing the planet. Look at the fucking antarctic and then tell me we can work with that.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2021)

arcanine said:


> I know I don't. I was referring to this:
> 
> which reads to me like a much lower moral standard than is reasonable. "Slippery enough not to get caught behaving immorally and not necessarily carrying out criminal acts at the moment and probably not going to go to prison" is a shit benchmark, and stinks of making excuses for somebody who you know is morally bankrupt but whose policies you nonetheless support because it suits you to do so.
> 
> As for being able to work with it - I disagree. These people are sanctioning activitiy which is killing the planet. Look at the fucking antarctic and then tell me we can work with that.


Trump was a necessary and welcome disruption to the DC monolith. If you're still operating under the mistaken belief that Congress cares one iota about the ice caps, you've learned absolutely nothing over the course of the last decade. The problem of climate change (which isn't really a problem - the climate changes all the time, it's more a question of adaptation than it is about turning back the clock) needs a technological solution, not gradually stifling industry under a mountain of unnecessary and often conflicting regulations. You're not going to plug the ozone layer with tax money, and the recent pandemic has shown more than anything that restricting the freedoms of the general population has negligible effect on the environmental impact of fossil fuels.

www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/11/covid-record-drop-global-carbon-emissions-2020.html

You might think that this is great news - worldwide greenhouse gas emissions have decreased by 7%. Once you're done digesting that, read it again. Lockdowns and putting large swathes of the economy completely on hold for nearly a year straight has decreased emissions by a measly 7%. Demand for oil went down so low that for a brief moment its value was in the negative, to very little effect in the long-term. 93% of emissions were completely unaffected by the entire world metaphorically stopping in its tracks and effectively triggering a recession without actually calling it a recession. Maybe we're looking at the wrong kinds of restrictions when we're designing environmental regulations if keeping people in-doors as much as humanly possible and forcing them into working from home doesn't even make a dent.

You're correct, I wanted someone like Trump. I wanted him to weasel his way out of ridiculous and ineffective agreements like the Paris Accord, which in itself is non-binding and puts undue pressure on the industry. I did want him to renegotiate the NAFTA deal and prevent further off-shoring of key industries. I did want him to lower the tax burden on the average Joe and the rich Joe alike. I'm perfectly satisfied with his policies, regardless of how he went about enacting them. I'm interested in results, not how "presidential" the president is.

If you think that's somehow heartless, or that I don't feel compassion for the planet, or if you have some other criticism in mind, I'll take it in strides because I probably don't care about any of those things nearly as much as I cared about lowering unemployment, increasing the GDP and lowering the tax burden, and all three goals materialised before the pandemic shook the world economy unexpectedly. In fact, even thought COVID rocked the States making unemployment skyrocket, it's already normalising, and rapidly so, in no small part due to Trump's business-friendly policies.


FAST6191 said:


> You don't have to make excuses for it. If it is predictable it might not be ideal but you can work with it.


Every single shortcoming of Trump's was on full display during his 2016 campaign, that's partially why he's Teflon. People knew who they voted for and they were fine with what they saw - nothing was a big surprise, that's why his base is like a monolith. Everything he did or said was priced into the package as early as 2016, let alone now.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Just want to be clear, I meant "how many on the right would be fine with big tech censoring LGBT?".


Ah, sorry.
Sadly, probably most of them. (Especially considering none of them gave a flying fuck that Parler was doing the exact opposite of its goal by rampantly banning any users that said anything vaguely left-wing.)


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 11, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> I wonder how many would keep with this same narrative if it was lgbt people being censored simply for being lgbt.


It's almost like we're tired of gay propaganda being spat in out faces every twenty seconds. Okay. We get it. You're gay. Now shut up, please.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 11, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It's almost like we're tired of gay propaganda being spat in out faces every twenty seconds. Okay. We get it. You're gay. Now shut up, please.


And I'm tired of bigoted, hetwash-encouraging sludge being digitally projectile-vomited in our faces any time someone dares to bring up that LGBTQ+ even exists. Okay. We get it. You're homophobic. Now shut up, please.


----------



## AdenTheThird (Jan 12, 2021)

My first thoughts on the election, and I'm instantly reminded of a Star Wars quote by General Hux:
*"I don't care if you win. I just need Kylo Ren to lose."
*


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 12, 2021)

AdenTheThird said:


> My first thoughts on the election, and I'm instantly reminded of a Star Wars quote by General Hux:
> *"I don't care if you win. I just need Kylo Ren to lose."*


I don't understand people who think like this.


----------



## AdenTheThird (Jan 12, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't understand people who think like this.


I'm Independent and don't particularly identify with either party. For me, this election was more about Trump's loss than Biden's win. I think a lot of others felt the same.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

AdenTheThird said:


> I'm Independent and don't particularly identify with either party. For me, this election was more about Trump's loss than Biden's win. I think a lot of others felt the same.


There is no difference between "Trump's loss" and "Biden's win."


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 12, 2021)

Fa


Foxi4 said:


> Trump was a necessary and welcome disruption to the DC monolith. If you're still operating under the mistaken belief that Congress cares one iota about the ice caps, you've learned absolutely nothing over the course of the last decade. The problem of climate change (which isn't really a problem - the climate changes all the time, it's more a question of adaptation than it is about turning back the clock) needs a technological solution, not gradually stifling industry under a mountain of unnecessary and often conflicting regulations. You're not going to plug the ozone layer with tax money, and the recent pandemic has shown more than anything that restricting the freedoms of the general population has negligible effect on the environmental impact of fossil fuels.
> 
> www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/11/covid-record-drop-global-carbon-emissions-2020.html
> 
> ...


Fantastic response, sir. I believe we share a similar view in this matter.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> At least my PFP doesn't have the straight flag in it.


This is a personal sigil I made for a freaking digital art project, from a good few months before anyone decided to be an asshole and publicly promote "straight pride". (Also, that piece of crap flag just has solid blue and pink instead of a gradient, since they also refuse to acknowledge gender isn't just a binary.)
You may be trying to joke, bait, troll, whatever, but comparing this to that flag is honestly a personal insult. Straight pride and all the other "majority-pride" movements are just obnoxious.
(And yeah, I know this makes me sound like a stereotypical SJW. But honestly, that's a lot better than being compared to a homophobic douchebag.)


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Trump was a necessary and welcome disruption to the DC monolith. If you're still operating under the mistaken belief that Congress cares one iota about the ice caps, you've learned absolutely nothing over the course of the last decade. The problem of climate change (which isn't really a problem - the climate changes all the time, it's more a question of adaptation than it is about turning back the clock) needs a technological solution, not gradually stifling industry under a mountain of unnecessary and often conflicting regulations. You're not going to plug the ozone layer with tax money, and the recent pandemic has shown more than anything that restricting the freedoms of the general population has negligible effect on the environmental impact of fossil fuels.
> 
> www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/11/covid-record-drop-global-carbon-emissions-2020.html
> 
> ...


Human-caused climate change is indeed a problem. Humans are putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth. Please educate yourself.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no difference between "Trump's loss" and "Biden's win."



It isn't like Biden had an especially fervent or memorable campaign. The outcome was correctly predicted by the approval ratings.


----------



## AdenTheThird (Jan 12, 2021)

Dang, what a reply! I barely use news sources, and remain as unbiased as possible, even when I'm upset. I don't really care about who's lying about what, because plenty of people will argue both sides. I just don't like Trump as a person, solely based on the reputation he's established for himself, the Republican party, and America as a whole. That's all.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Human-caused climate change is indeed a problem. Humans are putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth. Please educate yourself.


Sir, I will accept this assertion,  however the path to remedy 'climate change' cannot solely be found in legislation/regulation as you seem to suggest. The path you suggest is a _political_ path, where legislation/regulation is bound to get lost in the daily toil of checks and balances (as it already has). One climate regulation is put in place, the same regulation overturned at the next election. These crude policies are constantly in flux, as you know. Furthermore, we cannot expect a group of world _diplomats _to offer any assistance beyond posturing.  Surely, you recognize these world conferences as a study in public relations!?

On the other hand, US private enterprise is making tremendous advancements in this space. Unprecedented leaps in achievement fostered largely with private funding. Do you recognize these achievements? The US is leading this space with our ingenuity, and we should be grateful.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

dude you should write a book about this since stating facts (especially about LGBTQ+- sex change is not "on a whim" since _neither_ homosexuality nor being transgender is a "choice" but literally just a neurological thing) seems to light quite a fire in your soul and under your ass
I'd buy it- any time I think I'm a failure, I'll read it and regain confidence in about three pages
oh, and you might wanna learn a bit about tone policing, tu quoque and the various other fallacies you like to throw around with abandon- maybe read up on it a little or at least switch to your main account


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

0x3000027E said:


> Sir, I will accept this assertion,  however the path to remedy 'climate change' cannot solely be found in legislation/regulation as you seem to suggest. The path you suggest is a _political_ path, where legislation/regulation is bound to get lost in the daily toil of checks and balances (as it already has). One climate regulation is put in place, the same regulation overturned at the next election. These crude policies are constantly in flux, as you know. Furthermore, we cannot expect a group of world _diplomats _to offer any assistance beyond posturing.  Surely, you recognize these world conferences as a study in public relations!?
> 
> On the other hand, US private enterprise is making tremendous advancements in this space. Unprecedented leaps in achievement fostered largely with private funding. Do you recognize these achievements? The US is leading this space with our ingenuity, and we should be grateful.


Regulation has solved other climate issues in the past, and a systemic problem is going to require systemic solutions.

Your "politicians suck" platitude is mind-numbingly hollow.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

*Bill Belichick rejects Medal of Freedom from his old buddy Donald Trump*
Wow  if youre really quiet... you can still hear the band playing.


Edit:fixed the link


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 12, 2021)

AdenTheThird said:


> Dang, what a reply! I barely use news sources, and remain as unbiased as possible, even when I'm upset. I don't really care about who's lying about what, because plenty of people will argue both sides. I just don't like Trump as a person, solely based on the reputation he's established for himself, the Republican party, and America as a whole. That's all.



So you just don't like the man? Hopefully you don't dislike him based on the lies from the Liberal Left, because then you'd be doing yourself a disservice and your outlook would be based on half truths, falsehoods and straight up fabrications. If you simply don't like him for being rich and an asshole then that's understandable. I personally don't like his attitude, but his policies did great things for the country. Honestly though, I don't need to like someone personally as long as they do the job they were elected to do and do it well and that's something Trump has excelled at.



			
				plasmaster09 said:
			
		

> neither homosexuality nor being transgender is a "choice" but literally just a neurological thing)



That's one sides *theory*. Like I said, if people can change genders on a whim, which happens a lot, which includes who and what they are attracted to then that puts a pretty big hole in your *theory*. I'm also not upset about the subject as I know what I believe and nothing you can say or do will change that, but it does seem the issue angers you. Unless you are normally just a jerk to anyone you disagree with and all.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So you just don't like the man? Hopefully you don't dislike him based on the lies from the Liberal Left, because then you'd be doing yourself a disservice and your outlook would be based on half truths, falsehoods and straight up fabrications. If you simply don't like him for being rich and an asshole then that's understandable. I personally don't like his attitude, but his policies did great things for the country. Honestly though, I don't need to like someone personally as long as they do the job they were elected to do and do it well and that's something Trump has excelled at.
> 
> 
> 
> That's one sides *theory*. Like I said, if people can change genders on a whim, which happens a lot, which includes who and what they are attracted to then that puts a pretty big hole in your *theory*. I'm also not upset about the subject as I know what I believe and nothing you can say or do will change that, but it does seem the issue angers you. Unless you are normally just a jerk to anyone you disagree with and all.


One cannot choose their sexuality nor gender identity, but I am not surprised you would claim otherwise. Someone who says "nothing you say or do will change my mind" is someone who is intellectually dishonest and doesn't care about truth.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> One cannot choose their sexuality nor gender identity, but I am not surprised you would claim otherwise. Someone who says "nothing you say or do will change my mind" is someone who is intellectually dishonest and doesn't care about truth.


^This.
Changing one's opinion with regards to new information- like, say, the growing evidence that homosexuality is biological (and possibly even an evolutionary adaptation)- is proof you are actually willing to examine the information in question. Just bashing any opposing point with whatever stick you have on hand (whether it be tone-policing, "just a theory" or various others) only serves to prove you're more concerned about personal values than you are about reality.
Then again, my commentary may be all for naught in this case, seeing as watching a veteran user like Lacius argue with a deluded burner account that likely only joined for the explicit purpose of hopping in to this very thread and somehow making things worse than they already are isn't even like talking to a brick wall. It's akin to watching a tenured professor try to explain basic addition and subtraction to a petulant child too busy being high on freshly-sniffed glue to listen.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 12, 2021)

Wow, @Frankfort42 made a gbatemp account just to comment on this topic... Maybe it's our friend Tabzer or Shamzie...??

Anyways, going forward things will only get better... Trump almost out!


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacuis said:
			
		

> One cannot choose their sexuality nor gender identity, but I am not surprised you would claim otherwise. Someone who says "nothing you say or do will change my mind" is someone who is intellectually dishonest and doesn't care about truth.



A Liberal trying to explain honesty to me. That's fresh. No, I just refuse to jump down the Liberal created rabbit hole that is *critical gender theory* as it's been created by your all so tolerant and lovable side to create division and unleash perversion into main stream (and that includes brain washing children). I refuse to go along with your crap. Heh, you can lump me in with your side saying "The science is settled", as even though the "science is never settled" my mind is made up about the issue. I have no problem with anyone due to who or what they have sex with or identify as I just personally don't fucking want to hear about it. I also don't want to see people going around slandering others and telling them they have to think a certain way when the entire issue is still in the "theory" stage. So you can go back and label me this or that or call me (insert word here) + phobic, but none of your attempts to control me or what I think will work. I'm sure if someone came to you and told you global warming is fake you'd have a similar response so don't go try to pretend you're holier than though when you shit stinks just as much as mine does.

Oh, by the way, lots of people change genders or who/what they are attracted to all of the time. You'd figure it you were born a certain way that you wouldn't be able to control it or crisscross between one category to another, but many do, so your *theory *has a major hole in it.



			
				Plasmaster09 said:
			
		

> ...



So much for peace, love, unity, tolerance and understanding. What a load of shit. I've said all I needed to say to you. You're attitude isn't going to get you far in life and I won't bother wasting my time replying to someone as moronic as you any longer.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



White_Raven_X said:


> Wow, @Frankfort42 made a gbatemp account just to comment on this topic... Maybe it's our friend Tabzer or Shamzie...??
> 
> Anyways, going forward things will only get better... Trump almost out!



This topic is what made me create an account, specifically to point out that the BLM riots were much worse then the one on the 6th. I had been lurking since I used resources here to hack my 3DS using Ninjahax. So whenever that method was popular is when I started coming to this site. I'm also not solely posting in this thread either. Feel free to read my other posts in my history. I just don't have hours on end like others to do camp here and converse so I'm mostly limited to commenting a little bit during night time.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> A Liberal trying to explain honesty to me. That's fresh. No, I just refuse to jump down the Liberal created rabbit hole that is *critical gender theory* as it's been created by your all so tolerant and lovable side to create division and unleash perversion into main stream (and that includes brain washing children). I refuse to go along with your crap. Heh, you can lump me in with your side saying "The science is settled", as even though the "science is never settled" my mind is made up about the issue. I have no problem with anyone due to who or what they have sex with or identify as I just personally don't fucking want to hear about it. I also don't want to see people going around slandering others and telling them they have to think a certain way when the entire issue is still in the "theory" stage. So you can go back and label me this or that or call me (insert word here) + phobic, but none of your attempts to control me or what I think will work. I'm sure if someone came to you and told you global warming is fake you'd have a similar response so don't go try to pretend you're holier than though when you shit stinks just as much as mine does.
> 
> Oh, by the way, lots of people change genders or who/what they are attracted to all of the time. You'd figure it you were born a certain way that you wouldn't be able to control it or crisscross between one category to another, but many do, so your *theory *has a major hole in it.
> 
> ...


You're the one who seems to be inappropriately focused on other people's sexualities and gender identities. For someone who doesn't want to hear about LGBT people, you sure do have a lot to say about them.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 12, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> A Liberal trying to explain honesty to me. That's fresh.


You're right, it's pointless for anyone to try.  Like morality or common sense, I'm sure it's a completely foreign concept to you that you'll never be capable of grasping.  All we can do for individuals beyond saving (such as yourself), is wait for you to end up dead from COVID or in jail after you attempt a terrorist attack in the name of your next cult leader.  Social Darwinism to the rescue.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You're the one who seems to be inappropriately focused on other people's sexualities and gender identities. For someone who doesn't want to hear about LGBT people, you sure do have a lot to say about them.


And he's also too closed- and/or small-minded to realize that experimentation and gender identity self-questioning, as well as pansexuality, gender fluid and all the other perfectly valid and justifiable sexualities and gender identities that fall in that vast cavern of "neither-or" he seems not to grasp!
Ah, whatever. Besides, his tenuous claims to have spent a few years on GBATemp (to paraphrase a little, "since Ninjahax") seem awfully sketchy since someone with that kind of vague online pseudo-tenure would presumably have the guts or popularity to be willing to *say this kinda BS on their main account instead of hiding behind a week-old burner.*


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Wow, @Frankfort42 made a gbatemp account just to comment on this topic... Maybe it's our friend Tabzer or Shamzie...??
> 
> Anyways, going forward things will only get better... Trump almost out!



Hi, I'm at work.  Nice thread.  Many interesting ideas.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 12, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> A Liberal trying to explain honesty to me. That's fresh. No, I just refuse to jump down the Liberal created rabbit hole that is *critical gender theory* as it's been created by your all so tolerant and lovable side to create division and unleash perversion into main stream (and that includes brain washing children). I refuse to go along with your crap. Heh, you can lump me in with your side saying "The science is settled", as even though the "science is never settled" my mind is made up about the issue. I have no problem with anyone due to who or what they have sex with or identify as I just personally don't fucking want to hear about it. I also don't want to see people going around slandering others and telling them they have to think a certain way when the entire issue is still in the "theory" stage. So you can go back and label me this or that or call me (insert word here) + phobic, but none of your attempts to control me or what I think will work. I'm sure if someone came to you and told you global warming is fake you'd have a similar response so don't go try to pretend you're holier than though when you shit stinks just as much as mine does.


Hypothesis vs. Theory: The Difference Explained | Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

This is Middle School-level science, and yet you are still confusing the terms "theory" and "hypothesis". A theory, by definition, is supported by large bodies of evidence. It is not a "law", but it has enough evidence to assume that the hypothesis presented is true. Things like Evolution, the Big Bang, and Climate Change are theories.

 Also, "unleash perversion unto children"? Get your QAnon ass out of here, nobody wants to hear that conspiracy garbage.



Frankfort42 said:


> Oh, by the way, lots of people change genders or who/what they are attracted to all of the time. You'd figure it you were born a certain way that you wouldn't be able to control it or crisscross between one category to another, but many do, so your *theory *has a major hole in it.



Believe it or not, but humans don't always know everything about themselves. Some people may feel confused about their orientation, so this isn't some, "libtard pwned" moment or whatever you're trying to frame it as.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Wow, @Frankfort42 made a gbatemp account just to comment on this topic... Maybe it's our friend Tabzer or Shamzie...??
> 
> Anyways, going forward things will only get better... Trump almost out!


Probably not Shamzie, considering this deluded digital-newborn has been active on this at the same time IIRC. (Then again, if they're one and the same and he's been talking to himself to bolster his argument or just swooping in to reinforce himself, I wouldn't be all that surprised.)


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Human-caused climate change is indeed a problem. Humans are putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth. Please educate yourself.


Don't twist what I said, you have the ability to read (although it often doesn't show). Anthropogenic climate change is real, however carbon emission limitations, carbon credits and other assorted nonsense are not the solution. How you've gathered that I don't think it's real from my post is beyond me, but then again, who am I to question your reading comprehension. The solution to the carbon footprint issue must necessarily be technological, and we will not arrive at it by stifling industry. Government regulations do not effectively reduce the carbon footprint - technological progress does. Government decree does not magically generate low/no emissions vehicles, car manufacturers do. Not because it saves the planet, mind you, but because efficiency sells. Not that it even matters since consumer vehicles don't even generate that much CO2 - giant transport freighters do. Just 16 cargo ships produce as much pollution as *all of the cars in the world put together* because the heavy oil fuel they use isn't exactly environmentally friendly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html

We could all stop driving tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference, pollution is, to a huge extent, a logistical issue. Just phasing out some of the old ships in favour of ones equipped with nuclear marine propulsion would be orders of magnitude more effective than anything we can do on land.

But of course most people wouldn't know that because most people don't know what they're talking about. So y'know, hang up your keys and ride a bike to work. You totally made a difference.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Human-caused climate change is indeed a problem. Humans are putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth. Please educate yourself.


I don't know if you know this, but...the human body converts air into carbon dioxide, and breathes it out.


----------



## Chary (Jan 12, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Wow, @Frankfort42 made a gbatemp account just to comment on this topic... Maybe it's our friend Tabzer or Shamzie...??
> 
> Anyways, going forward things will only get better... Trump almost out!


This is an insult to those long-time members. Regardless of their political affliations. Why? Because the burner is a throwaway from a user that lived and died for all of five seconds on these same political hot takes, saying they were quitting the website after their stuff was deleted.

Is it something in the water? Do the admins secretly inject all registered users with highly addictive drugs that make them come back over and over even after being banned or "quitting" time and time again? Or is there really enough time in the day to play destroyer of lib mad gay agenda: the political warrior on a gaming website?


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 12, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't know if you know this, but...the human body converts air into carbon dioxide, and breathes it out.


Holy shit! Why didn't scientists think of that? It's almost like increasing CO2 emissions within the atmosphere can lead to extreme weather effects (such as droughts), lung cancer, asthma, strokes, an increase in surface temperature, and a loss of land and potential housing. 

You just don't quit with the bad takes, do you?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 12, 2021)

Big Man Tyrone2 said:


> Holy shit! Why didn't scientists think of that? It's almost like increasing CO2 emissions within the atmosphere can lead to extreme weather effects (such as droughts), lung cancer, asthma, strokes, an increase in surface temperature, and a loss of land and potential housing.
> 
> You just don't quit with the bad takes, do you?


I didn't know that breathing can cause the apocalypse.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 12, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I didn't know that breathing can cause the apocalypse.


There's a good, "stop breathing then" joke somewhere in there, but that's beneath me.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacuis said:
			
		

> You're the one who seems to be inappropriately focused on other people's sexualities and gender identities. For someone who doesn't want to hear about LGBT people, you sure do have a lot to say about them.



You're the one who seems to be inappropriately focused on Trump and Conservatives and what they do. For someone who hates Trump, Conservatives and doesn't want anything to do with them, you sure do have a lot to say about them.



			
				UltraSUPRA said:
			
		

> I didn't know that breathing can cause the apocalypse.



First of all carbon emissions aren't the sole cause of why the climate changes nor is the sole contributing factor to global warming. There's plenty of other things that contribute to the weather and the climate, some of which we as a species have control over and some things that we don't. I believe @Foxi4 was onto something regarding the fact that the world came to a screeching halt and our emissions didn't really drop that much. The other thing about carbon is the more we produce the more the things that consume carbon, such as plants start to do so at a greater rate. Mother nature compensates for the increased emissions.

The weather changes and so does the climate, there's no denying those facts, but to assume a bunch of morons who run at the slightest bit of trouble, such as the members of Congress, can fix the climate with political posturing then you're only following a bunch of fools. I was like others on this forum when I was growing up. I was gullible enough to believe all of the doomsday predictions we learned about in public schools, but not a single one of them has come to pass. After being lied to for decades one tends to stop listening to the liars.


----------



## arcanine (Jan 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Trump was a necessary and welcome disruption to the DC monolith. If you're still operating under the mistaken belief that Congress cares one iota about the ice caps, you've learned absolutely nothing over the course of the last decade.


I don't believe that anybody in politics cares about anything other than themselves, and trump is the archetype of that personality.



Foxi4 said:


> The problem of climate change (which isn't really a problem - the climate changes all the time, it's more a question of adaptation than it is about turning back the clock) needs a technological solution, not gradually stifling industry under a mountain of unnecessary and often conflicting regulations.


The cause isn't the issue. The fact is that the climate is changing and we are seeing species driven to extinction. Of course human emissions contribute to that. Of course humans burning down the rainforest contributes to that. Of course hunting animals for fun contributes to that. Of course mass farming contributes to that. Of course pollution contributes to that. Of course overfishing contributes to that. Of course millions of acres of concrete contribute to that. Of course fracking contributes to that. Of course nuclear waste contributes to that. You say that a technological solution is required. Well, where is it? Where are all the solar panels? The wind farms? The hydro generators? The geothermal generators? Why are governments still taking billions in lobbying donations from oil companies and fast "food" manufacturers in exchange for the overlooking of their obviously damaging behaviour? Where is the commitment to strip these organisations of their assets and use their money to do what needs to be done? We can solve the climate and energy crisis IMMEDIATELY. The only reason why it isn't happening is because politicians like trump are getting rich and fat off the profits of the oil industry.



Foxi4 said:


> the recent pandemic has shown more than anything that restricting the freedoms of the general population has negligible effect on the environmental impact of fossil fuels.


So it's not enough. I agree. More restriction on the use of fossil fuel is required, not less.



Foxi4 said:


> You might think that this is great news - worldwide greenhouse gas emissions have decreased by 7%. Once you're done digesting that, read it again. Lockdowns and putting large swathes of the economy completely on hold for nearly a year straight has decreased emissions by a measly 7%.


You might think that 7% in a year is insignificant. I don't. It shows we can reduce it. We have to keep doing that.



Foxi4 said:


> Demand for oil went down so low that for a brief moment its value was in the negative, to very little effect in the long-term. 93% of emissions were completely unaffected by the entire world metaphorically stopping in its tracks and effectively triggering a recession without actually calling it a recession. Maybe we're looking at the wrong kinds of restrictions when we're designing environmental regulations if keeping people in-doors as much as humanly possible and forcing them into working from home doesn't even make a dent.


I don't believe that this is the right approach to reducing dependence on fossil fuels because human activities still depend on them regardless of where they are carried out.



Foxi4 said:


> You're correct, I wanted someone like Trump. I wanted him to weasel his way out of ridiculous and ineffective agreements like the Paris Accord, which in itself is non-binding and puts undue pressure on the industry.


Don't you think that industry should be under pressure to account for its actions and the environmental damage it causes?



Foxi4 said:


> I did want him to renegotiate the NAFTA deal and prevent further off-shoring of key industries. I did want him to lower the tax burden on the average Joe and the rich Joe alike.


So you want your cake and eat it too. Better trade deals, lower tax, and better quality of life. It isn't going to happen. It's bullshit.



Foxi4 said:


> I'm perfectly satisfied with his policies, regardless of how he went about enacting them. I'm interested in results, not how "presidential" the president is.


Ok so you don't care about the moral implications of a person's behaviour as long as their actions work out in your own interests.



Foxi4 said:


> If you think that's somehow heartless, or that I don't feel compassion for the planet, or if you have some other criticism in mind, I'll take it in strides because I probably don't care about any of those things nearly as much as I cared about lowering unemployment, increasing the GDP and lowering the tax burden,


Prioritising personal and human goals. That's a fucked up distortion of empathy.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

arcanine said:


> I don't believe that anybody in politics cares about anything other than themselves, and trump is the archetype of that personality.
> 
> The cause isn't the issue. The fact is that the climate is changing and we are seeing species driven to extinction. Of course human emissions contribute to that. Of course humans burning down the rainforest contributes to that. Of course hunting animals for fun contributes to that. Of course mass farming contributes to that. Of course pollution contributes to that. Of course overfishing contributes to that. Of course millions of acres of concrete contribute to that. Of course fracking contributes to that. Of course nuclear waste contributes to that. You say that a technological solution is required. Well, where is it? Where are all the solar panels? The wind farms? The hydro generators? The geothermal generators? Why are governments still taking billions in lobbying donations from oil companies and fast "food" manufacturers in exchange for the overlooking of their obviously damaging behaviour? Where is the commitment to strip these organisations of their assets and use their money to do what needs to be done? We can solve the climate and energy crisis IMMEDIATELY. The only reason why it isn't happening is because politicians like trump are getting rich and fat off the profits of the oil industry.
> 
> ...


I absolutely empathise with people more than I empathise with ice. I can't imagine it being any other way.

The reason why you don't see mountains of solar panels or windmills is because they're a supplementary source of energy - they do not and cannot provide instant energy release like combustion or splitting the atom does. They're inefficient, subject to weather and cannot replace conventional energy sources on the grid as it would completely compromise energy security. All renewables we currently use require energy storage - this means towers of lithium until we invent a better energy storage technology (glass is becoming a very promising candidate, as well as carbon). Lithium means mining and mining means pollution - you're replacing one extracted resource for another, with arguably just as big of an environmental impact due to how it's mined. Hydrogen would be a great fossil fuel replacement if only it didn't require massive amounts of energy to generate in the first place, making it a feedback loop if I've ever seen one. Natural gas also greatly reduces emissions and is objectively a better fuel, but since we have tree huggers protesting that, we're back to square one.

When Germany accelerated its nuclear phase out in 2011, they've reversed decades of green energy impact. SO2 and particulate matter concentration have skyrocketed, leading to approx. 1100 more deaths annually, all because people who are stupid were afraid of the atom after Fukushima. Did pencil pushers do that, or did the engineers who actually know what they're doing? I have a feeling it was the pencil pushers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottc...s-but-there-is-little-appetite-for-a-rethink/

I'm actually heavily invested in green energy - not on a personal, but on a monetary level, to the tune of a couple grand, so while my money is saving the world, hipster money is making sure coffee shops stay open, and that's fine. It is in my interest, in the most literal sense, for green energy to do well - you have to let that happen instead of advocating for unnecessary roadblocks. Truth of the matter is that green energy is pushed by corporations that have the capital to invest in R&D, and industries will happily switch once price per watt becomes competitive with fossil fuels, which in some scenarios it already has.

As for your "we need to cut back even more than we did during the pandemic" comment, I have to remind you that this crisis caused the suicide rates to go up so high they're at the highest levels recorded. People are getting cabin fever at this point, we can't "live like this", this isn't a "new normal", nor should it be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54616688

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html

We have to care for the environment, sure. It would be nice if we didn't kill ourselves in the process. It's nice that you care about melting ice, and about the pictures of all the little sad bears and whatnot, but this is a complicated issue that we won't solve by just saying "well, we need to do more". We've been "doing more" since Gore and very little has changed, so perhaps you should rely less on the pencil pushers and more on literal rocket scientists who are already "on it".


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jan 12, 2021)

it's literally over now they are voting to have trump removed. 
only in murica


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


> it's literally over now they are voting to have trump removed.
> only in murica


They're not voting on removal, they're voting on "a measure to encourage Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment". They're basically officially asking him to do so, it's posturing, ultimately it's not their call to make.

EDIT: President Trump has just approved an emergency declaration in Washington DC ahead of the inauguration. It will stay in effect until January 24th to ensure a peaceful transfer of power without any further incidents.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ma-emergency-biden-inauguration-b1785782.html


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Don't twist what I said, you have the ability to read (although it often doesn't show). Anthropogenic climate change is real, however carbon emission limitations, carbon credits and other assorted nonsense are not the solution. How you've gathered that I don't think it's real from my post is beyond me, but then again, who am I to question your reading comprehension. The solution to the carbon footprint issue must necessarily be technological, and we will not arrive at it by stifling industry. Government regulations do not effectively reduce the carbon footprint - technological progress does. Government decree does not magically generate low/no emissions vehicles, car manufacturers do. Not because it saves the planet, mind you, but because efficiency sells. Not that it even matters since consumer vehicles don't even generate that much CO2 - giant transport freighters do. Just 16 cargo ships produce as much pollution as *all of the cars in the world put together* because the heavy oil fuel they use isn't exactly environmentally friendly.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html
> 
> ...


You said climate change "isn't really a problem," and I corrected you. It is, in fact, a problem. Humans are putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth. Again, please educate yourself.

There is nothing about our current technologies that prevents us from moving to primarily green energy. To do this though, the solutions are going to have to be systemic. That means laws, regulations, etc.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> I don't know if you know this, but...the human body converts air into carbon dioxide, and breathes it out.


Yes, this is correct. It's also absurdly irrelevant to anything I've said. The problem of human-caused climate change is due to our burning of fossil fuels. If your intention is to argue that carbon dioxide can't be a big deal because we breathe it out, that's a logical fallacy called the naturalistic fallacy. Whether or not humans breathe out carbon dioxide is irrelevant to whether or not it's a greenhouse gas that humans are pumping into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is nothing about our current technologies that prevents us from moving to primarily green energy. To do this though, the solutions are going to have to be systemic. That means laws, regulations, etc.


To be more specific, I said that it's a matter of adaptation, which it is. You're always missing the forest for the trees - on purpose at that. It's truly remarkable. I outlined precisely what's wrong with the current state of technology that prevents us from moving onto "primarily green energy", so by all means, educate yourself. When you figure out how to store 15 terawatts of the world's energy need, with the ability to scale upwards, give us all a quick run-down. Besides standard power walls we have a couple candidates going - using the generated energy to produce hydrogen for later use (this is implemented in hydrogen stations in some locations specifically for hydrogen vehicles), compressed/liquified air, pumped water towers, flow batteries and other unconventional batteries I've mentioned earlier. Until we're capable of storing energy for use when "it's not windy" or "it's not sunny" for more than just individual households going 100% renewable, or anywhere close to "primary source" is a complete pipe dream. It's a great supplemental source, it absolutely is not a replacement, and no engineer worth their salt will claim otherwise.


----------



## Elrinth (Jan 12, 2021)

I think GI Joe will without a doubt trump the previous president. But we will all see in time.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Always missing the forest for the trees - on purpose at that. Truly remarkable.


What's truly remarkable is the following exchange that just occurred:

You: Climate change isn't really a problem.
Me: Climate change is indeed a problem. Here's why.
You: Don't twist what I said.
Me: You literally said climate change isn't really a problem.
You: No, you're the one missing something.
I'm not especially interested in having a conversation with someone so flagrantly dishonest. Perhaps you're just thinking about this for the first time as you go, because your stream-of-consciousness solutions to your own energy storage concerns laughably make it so I don't even need to respond.

In reality, it is more than technologically feasible to get to 100% renewable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100%_renewable_energy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production

"The biggest roadblocks preventing implementation of large-scale de-carbonisation strategies at the speed required to prevent runaway climate change are primarily political not technological."
https://cpd.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Post-Carbon-Pathways-Report-2013_Revised.pdf

Educate yourself, please.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Elrinth said:


> I think GI Joe will without a doubt trump the previous president. But we will all see in time.


The bar there is so low that microorganisms could use it for Limbo.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> What's truly remarkable is the following exchange that just occurred:
> 
> You: Climate change isn't really a problem.
> Me: Climate change is indeed a problem. Here's why.
> ...


It's a matter of adaptation. I said that in the very first post in this exchange. It would be a "problem" if the climate wasn't changing up until now and all of a sudden it started to change - that'd be a big surprise. This isn't. The climate has been changing for as long as our planet has existed, and it will continue to change regardless of what you try to do about it. What you can do is adapt to the world changing and address the energy needs of the population, ideally without contributing too much in terms of greenhouse gasses which accelerates the process. The way you do that is by redesigning the grid with that in mind. It's completely false to say that "we can just switch", the feasibility of doing so is *highly* dependent on the area discussed, both in terms of geolocation and in terms of weather. It's not a "stream-of-consciousness", I'm listing currently available technologies which are promising candidates if such a grid redesign was to take place globally - that's all we've got. This might be news to some, but the sun isn't up 24/7 - not only that, if you know anything about solar at all, you'll know that the window of opportunity for peak efficiency (specified as "sun hours") that isn't a total waste of time is as narrow as 3-4 hours out of the 7 hours of sunlight a panel gets. In that short period of time you must necessarily collect enough energy for the remaining 20 hours of the day in order to truly get "off the grid", and that's just for a typical household, not for an industrial application. The same applies to wind energy, but that's less predictable. The single best, most predictable and reliable source of renewable energy is hydro, but those can only operate on rivers, particularly in areas with a difference in elevation. If you're not well-versed in the subject of the challenges we face in regards to renewable energy deployment, I don't know why you're replying at all. If you don't have anything to contribute besides picking apart semantics, you're wasting everyone's time.

EDIT: _*Checks paper*
*Looks at authors*
*Checks credentials*

"Professor Wiseman’s major research and policy contributions have been in the *fields of social justice and citizen engagement; globalization impacts; social, economic and environmental policy frameworks* and indicators; sustainability transitions; and climate change risks and solutions."

"Taegen completed a *Bachelor of Arts /Commerce* at the University of Melbourne and Honours at Monash University analysing the implications of the Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change."

*Can't even find much about the third besides... *Sustainable clothes swaps*? Can't be the right fellow...*_

Oh. So... Not one engineer. Thank you for this wonderful sociology paper, I'll be sure to file it in the correct cabinet.

_*Puts paper in bin*_


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It's a matter of adaptation. I said that in the very first post in this exchange. It would be a "problem" if the climate wasn't changing up until now and all of a sudden it started to change - that'd be a big surprise. This isn't. The climate has been changing for as long as our planet has existed, and it will continue to change regardless of what you try to do about it. What you can do is adapt to the world changing and address the energy needs of the population, ideally without contributing too much in terms of greenhouse gasses which accelerates the process. The way you do that is by redesigning the grid with that in mind. It's completely false to say that "we can just switch", the feasibility of doing so is *highly* dependent on the area discussed, both in terms of geolocation and in terms of weather. It's not a "stream-of-consciousness", I'm listing currently available technologies which are promising candidates if such a grid redesign was to take place globally - that's all we've got. This might be news to some, but the sun isn't up 24/7 - not only that, if you know anything about solar at all, you'll know that the window of opportunity for peak efficiency (specified as "sun hours") that isn't a total waste of time is as narrow as 3-4 hours out of the 7 hours of sunlight a panel gets. In that short period of time you must necessarily collect enough energy for the remaining 20 hours of the day in order to truly get "off the grid", and that's just for a typical household, not for an industrial application. The same applies to wind energy, but that's less predictable. The single best source, most predictable and reliable source of renewable energy is hydro, but those can only operate on rivers, particularly in areas with a difference in elevation. If you're not well-versed in the subject of the challenges we face in regards to renewable energy deployment, I don't know why you're replying at all. If you don't have anything to contribute besides picking apart semantics, you're wasting everyone's time.


As I already told you at the beginning of this exchange, climate change is in fact a problem, and carbon dioxide is being put into the atmosphere at a rate never before seen by the Earth. The idea that "this is just another example of the climate changing as it always does" demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the climate science.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

Sleepy Joe rigged the election.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Every election, since JFK, has probably been rigged.  This cycle, it was the most obvious rigging.  Over half the country believes it.  Maybe a lot more.  People deny it because they would prefer someone who enables pedophilia to take Trump's place.  "It's for the greater good", like "saving the planet".


----------



## rensenware (Jan 12, 2021)

PenelopeEll said:


> Sorry for Trump, he was a good guy, capable...


How

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Every election, since JFK, has probably been rigged.  This cycle, it was the most obvious rigging.  Over half the country believes it.  Maybe a lot more.  People deny it because they would prefer someone who enables pedophilia to take Trump's place.  "It's for the greater good", like "saving the planet".


Evidence?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Sleepy Joe rigged the election.


Welcome back. The subject naturally gravitated towards climate policy, but I'm pretty sure we're done with that. Please maintain an acceptable level of decorum and we won't have any issues going forward.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> Evidence?



Evidence isn't lacking.  What has been confused though is the burden of the proof.  Some people think that there needs to be absolute proof that election fraud happened in order to doubt the validity of an election.  For that, it is likely that there is enough evidence.  For others, they want to deny the existence of evidence, at all costs--so they would say "evidence?" in the face of absolute proof.

Then there are those, who are more rational, imo.  Those who think that we should be convinced that a fair election is even possible before playing along.  For those people, there is no hope or future in politics.  They'd be right so far, too, because political trend has always sold their heritage, education (or access to information), and inheritance from under them.  If things go according to trend, it won't be "global warming" that changes people into lumps of goo.  The political ideologies that succeed in the corruption game would win that race.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Every election, since JFK, has probably been rigged.  This cycle, it was the most obvious rigging.  Over half the country believes it.  Maybe a lot more.  People deny it because they would prefer someone who enables pedophilia to take Trump's place.  "It's for the greater good", like "saving the planet".



There is no evidence of any presidential election since JFK having been rigged.
There is no evidence the 2020 election was rigged, obviously or otherwise.
A majority of Americans do not believe the 2020 election was rigged.
Whether or not "over half the country" believes the 2020 election was rigged is irrelevant to its truthfulness.
There is no evidence that Biden "enables pedophilia."

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Evidence isn't lacking.


Evidence is lacking that the election was rigged. No evidence has been provided that there was any widespread voter fraud.



tabzer said:


> What has been confused though is the burden of the proof.


Yes. The burden of proof is on the person claiming there was widespread voter fraud. I'm glad that's cleared up.



tabzer said:


> Some people think that there needs to be absolute proof that election fraud happened in order to doubt the validity of an election.


Evidence of widespread voter fraud needs to be provided before it's reasonable to believe there was widespread voter fraud. Evidence of widespread voter fraud needs to be provided before it's reasonable to doubt the validity of the election.



tabzer said:


> For that, it is likely that there is enough evidence.


Not even close.



tabzer said:


> For others, they want to deny the existence of evidence, at all costs--so they would say "evidence?" in the face of absolute proof.


No evidence, nor absolute proof, of widespread voter fraud has been provided.



tabzer said:


> Then there are those, who are more rational, imo.  Those who think that we should be convinced that a fair election is even possible before playing along.


We have evidence the election was fair and secure, and we have no evidence it wasn't.



tabzer said:


> Some people think that there needs to be absolute proof that election fraud happened in order to doubt the validity of an election.


There should be evidence of widespread voter fraud before doubting the validity of the election.



tabzer said:


> For those people, there is no hope or future in politics.  They'd be right so far, too, because political trend has always sold their heritage, education (or access to information), and inheritance from under them.  If things go according to trend, it won't be "global warming" that changes people into lumps of goo.  The political ideologies that succeed in the corruption game would win that race.


I'm not going to touch this incoherent rambling except to say that human-caused climate change and global warming are demonstrably real.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Plausible deniability has taken us over the edge of objective rationalization.  There is nothing honest about what you said.



Lacius said:


> There should be evidence of widespread voter fraud before doubting the validity of the election.



America had an election yesterday, and everyone here missed it. It was a re-vote, and I actually won it this time.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Plausible deniability has taken us over the edge of objective rationalization.  There is nothing honest about what you said.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Your persistent avoidance of any and all facts you don't like is not only an example of pure, unfiltered confirmation bias, but it also manages to make even my polarized, stubborn ass look like King Solomon in comparison.

Oh, and even if every single instance of alleged voter fraud on that bullshit website in your sig happens to be true (which is extremely unlikely)... that's 2 mil. Biden won by about 7 mil. *Please, I highly encourage you to grasp at straws for the other five million votes.*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Plausible deniability has taken us over the edge of objective rationalization.  There is nothing honest about what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> America had an election yesterday, and everyone here missed it. It was a re-vote, and I actually won it this time.


Without providing any evidence of widespread voter fraud, anything you have to say about widespread voter fraud is no different from talking out of you ass. I am sorry the facts are inconvenient for you.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Your persistent avoidance of any and all facts you don't like is not only an example of pure, unfiltered confirmation bias, but it also manages to make even my polarized, stubborn ass look like King Solomon in comparison.



Your suggestion of bias assumes that I am being unfair to politicians and others who want to play politics.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Your persistent avoidance of any and all facts you don't like is not only an example of pure, unfiltered confirmation bias, but it also manages to make even my polarized, stubborn ass look like King Solomon in comparison.


Who's the baby we'll be sawing in two? I have a couple candidates.

Jokes aside, we've been through a couple of recounts and signature checks, so many of the allegations were in fact investigated. It's not like the allegation was made and *nothing* was done about it. How well they were investigated is another matter, and in the eyes of the beholder, but it's up to Trump's team to demonstrate that shenanigans were afoot if anyone's going to have a look at the ballots on this large of a scale, and they have failed to do so. You need *something* to base your investigation on, it's not Scooby Doo, you need to start with some clues from the get-go. "Dominion sus" is not enough.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Your suggestion of bias assumes that I am being unfair to politicians and others who want to play politics.


That's... not what confirmation bias means.
Confirmation bias is starting off with, well, a bias of some sort, and ignoring any facts contrary to it.
You insist the election was rigged, so you cherry-pick bits and pieces while ignoring the vast amount of cases Trump and team have thrown about that have come back showing that things were legitimate.
This doesn't mean you're being unfair to politicians, it means you're fundamentally biased in such a way that you ignore facts you don't like.


Foxi4 said:


> Who's the baby we'll be sawing in two? I have a couple candidates.


Considering how large a political rift Trump and team are tearing over their loss, I'd say the baby is Lady Liberty.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> "Dominion sus" is not enough.



I disagree, for the sake of a free and fair election, it is enough to warrant an audit.  If election proceeding are hidden behind closed source and redacted for reasoning besides proving a fair election, then there is reason to doubt.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I disagree, for the sake of a free and fair election, it is enough to warrant an audit.  If election proceeding are hidden behind closed source and redacted for reasoning besides proving a fair election, then there is reason to doubt.


In all fairness, those eVoting machines should be auditable at any time at the click of a button. There's a lot of weird features embedded into the system that raise an eyebrow, particularly the way the database stores data (been a subject of many-a-hacking conventions before), but that alone is not enough.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> That's... not what confirmation bias means.



Confirmation bias relies on bias.  I was addressing the assertion of bias.



Plasmaster09 said:


> You insist the election was rigged, so you cherry-pick bits and pieces while ignoring the vast amount of cases Trump and team have thrown about that have come back showing that things were legitimate.



On one hand, you could be correct.  On the other hand, you are wrong.  I'm not ignoring any of those cases.  I never saw what I believed appear in them.  It all looked like posturing and empty theatrics.  What I saw more of, was people saying,"hey look at these incompetent people being incompetent!  It is proof that the election was not rigged."

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> In all fairness, those eVoting machines should be auditable at any time at the click of a button. There's a lot of weird features embedded into the system that raise an eyebrow, particularly the way the database stores data (been a subject of many-a-hacking conventions before), but that alone is not enough.



I agree in part and I think I disagree...  "enough" for what?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Confirmation bias relies on bias.  I was addressing the assertion of bias.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Accepting there was widespread voter fraud or that there was "probably" widespread voter fraud when no evidence of widespread voter fraud has been provided is ridiculous, by definition.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I disagree, for the sake of a free and fair election, it is enough to warrant an audit.  If election proceeding are hidden behind closed source and redacted for reasoning besides proving a fair election, then there is reason to doubt.


They could film it live on camera with a studio audience and you'd claim it was an incredibly elaborate deepfake.
You've already proven you cannot be proven to.


tabzer said:


> Confirmation bias relies on bias.  I was addressing the assertion of bias.
> 
> 
> 
> On one hand, you could be correct.  On the other hand, you are wrong.  I'm not ignoring any of those cases.  I never saw what I believed appear in them.  It all looked like posturing and empty theatrics.  What I saw more of, was people saying, "hey look at these incompetent people being incompetent!  It is proof that the election was not rigged."


dude this is literally just confirmation bias combined with a little of the no true scotsman fallacy
you don't want to accept the election was valid, so you look at anything that says it is and accuse it of being falsified or invalid evidence


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

*Signature Bank says it's closing the president's two personal accounts, where he had $5m+, as the bank calls for his resignation.*
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...rump-start-to-distance-themselves-11610444427

HOW DIRTY is your money, that Your Bank does not want your $5mil.


----------



## GhostLatte (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Sleepy Joe rigged the election.


Where’s your evidence?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Where’s your evidence?


It's in Tabzer's sig.
Or rather, about 28% of it is in his sig. The other 72% doesn't fucking exist.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I agree in part and I think I disagree...  "enough" for what?


Right, more specific. The way the voting machine works is that it scans ballots in batches. You slide the paper ballots through the machine until it hits a pre-determined limit (bag full) at which point it informs the user about the calculation of the batch, the ballots are removed and a count printout is generated. The problem is that the way this number is stored in the database is a double, not an integer, meaning it's compatible with weighted voting and can produce a decimal if that's what's needed for the specific selection process you want to run. This is somewhat concerning since you have to ensure the machine is correctly configured before the count begins, otherwise you get an inaccurate count as some votes are weighted differently than others (this is useful for some kinds of selection, but not in this case). There are other features that must be enabled/disabled to run the machine correctly, I believe this is done with a physical configuration key (one was recently stolen IIRC). Then there are actual physical vulnerabilities also, but they wouldn't go unnoticed. Everything depends on which specific machine we're talking about, but messing with them is basically an annual event at DEF CON.

https://thehill.com/policy/cybersec...tails-persistent-vulnerabilities-to-us-voting

With that said, the existence of vulnerabilities is not enough to just bin all the votes, or trigger a nation-wide investigation. You need to have evidence that it happened at least once, some evidence to make the suspicion of electronic fraud remotely reasonable.


----------



## notimp (Jan 12, 2021)

They said psy ops.

wtf? (Not something I'm usually obsessing about.)


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Accepting there was widespread voter fraud or that there was "probably" widespread voter fraud when no evidence of widespread voter fraud has been provided is ridiculous, by definition.



"by definition".  There is evidence, by definition.  A lot of evidence, by definition. 



Plasmaster09 said:


> you don't want to accept the election was valid



It's not that what I want or don't want.  I can't because I have a brain and a heart, and I have seen too much to be able to go against either of them.

You are positing that I am not being fair, because I don't accept your beliefs as my own.  This is not unlike arguing about religion.



Plasmaster09 said:


> Or rather, about 28% of it is in his sig. The other 72% doesn't fucking exist



28% evidence.  That's a new admission.  The site has everything relevent up to a certain date, with rankings.  But it doesn't include Pulitzer's findings, or other recent evidence.  Not to mention the possibilities and definitive assertation of meddling from foreign countries' assets.  Since over 90% of the media appeals to less than half of the country's accepted interest, it is not unfair to suggest that the news media is a propaganda arm.  So, anyone who already disagrees, will be even more disenfranchised.  Anyone who is trying to be unbiased, or those who are 50/50 on the bipartisan scale will be disenfranchised.  It's only going to reward the die-hard ideologists who don't even know the outcome of what they are perpetuating--and only temporarily on an emotional level.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "by definition".  There is evidence, by definition.  A lot of evidence, by definition.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

Can't wait for the police to drag Trump and his family out of the white house on the 20th when he inevitably refuses to leave. That's gonna be fun to watch.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Can't wait for the police to drag Trump and his family out of the white house on the 20th when he inevitably refuses to leave. That's gonna be fun to watch.


He already said that he will allow peaceful transition of power to take place, he just refuses to concede, which is his right - concessions are tradition, not a rule of law.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "by definition". There is evidence, by definition. A lot of evidence, by definition.


Except there isn't. Anywhere. This is no different from the 'Russia hacked the 2016 elections' bs; retarded excuses made up by unintelligent manchildren who can't take a loss. Trump supporters are total hypocrites and have been used by Trump to get him as much power as he possibly could.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> He already said that he will allow peaceful transition of power to take place, he just refuses to concede, which is his right - concessions are tradition, not a rule of law.


But leaving his power behind is a form of conceeding loss, correct? You don't abandon your power if you don't think you legitimately lost it. You'd fight until your dying breath to keep it, but Trump has launched an appeal to the supreme court that failed and... used his supporters to trash some shit. Yes, very much a man who believes he didn't lose. He's totally not lying to gullible supporters to try and stir the pan and keep power for as long as possible.

And judging by the way he's handled the loss it wouldn't surprise me if he and his followers made a stand on the 20th.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Except there isn't. Anywhere. This is no different from the 'Russia hacked the 2016 elections' bs; retarded excuses made up by unintelligent manchildren who can't take a loss. Trump supporters are total hypocrites and have been used by Trump to get him as much power as he possibly could.



You could be right.  But even though I was okay with Hillary losing the 2016 election, I would have preferred to have known for sure about how much of it was gamed/rigged.  I don't unequivocally believe in Trump.  I just think it is an appropriate consideration since it is a reoccurring theme that has never been decisively settled.  Another *win* for politicians.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Trump supporters are total hypocrites and have been used by Trump to get him as much power as he possibly could.



Trump used the electorate for votes, so he could be President. Wow what a bombshell.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> But leaving his power behind is a form of conceeding loss, correct? You don't abandon your power if you don't think you legitimately lost it. You'd fight until your dying breath to keep it, but Trump has launched an appeal to the supreme court that failed and... used his supporters to trash some shit. Yes, very much a man who believes he didn't lose. He's totally not lying to gullible supporters to try and stir the pan and keep power for as long as possible.
> 
> And judging by the way he's handled the loss it wouldn't surprise me if he and his followers made a stand on the 20th.


There are many times in life when you just have to walk away even if you think you're right to avoid a bigger issue resulting from unnecessary defiance. He's already approved enhanced security for the event, with some luck it will all be fairly uneventful. I'm sure he will continue questioning the results down the line, but I doubt that he would put himself in possible legal turmoil by making an ultimately unnecessary stand.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Trump used the electorate for votes, so he could be President. Wow what a bombshell.


your statement is not only wrong but sad....306 for life!!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Trump used the electorate for votes, so he could be President. Wow what a bombshell.


I suppose one way of looking at it is any candidate has to use supporters. But at what point in America's history has a president manipulated their die hard followers so much that he can get away with stirring up rumours of a conspiracy to unfairly depose him, and get some of the more idiotic ones to commit acts of terrorism? They don't even see the irony of it because this is exactly what they were saying to SJWs and other moronic clans on the side of Hillary when she lost and they kicked up a fuss and made hollow claims and excuses. The difference is, Hillary wasn't the one who started the conspiracy. This one is directly coming from Trump and his goons, which is even more ironic.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> but I doubt that he would put himself in possible legal turmoil by making an ultimately unnecessary stand


Oh dear, I don't think you really know the history of the man you're talking about.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Oh dear, I don't think you really know the history of the man you're talking about.


Biggest Trumpkin on the patch, I'm afraid.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I suppose one way of looking at it is any candidate has to use supporters. But at what point in America's history has a president manipulated their die hard followers so much that he can get away with stirring up rumours of a conspiracy to unfairly depose him, and get some of the more idiotic ones to commit acts of terrorism? They don't even see the irony of it because this is exactly what they were saying to SJWs and other moronic clans on the side of Hillary when she lost and they kicked up a fuss and made hollow claims and excuses. The difference is, Hillary wasn't the one who started the conspiracy. This one is directly coming from Trump and his goons, which is even more ironic.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



I'm not dismissing your point but I'd also like you to consider the fact he had 86,000,000 followers on twitter. Do you think one man is capable of manipulating 86,000,000 people or that maybe there's a modicum of a chance that you may not be totally correct.


----------



## notimp (Jan 12, 2021)

notimp said:


> They said psy ops.
> 
> wtf? (Not something I'm usually obsessing about.)



Follow up:


edit: more:


----------



## smf (Jan 12, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> If this is true, what did he hope for? Everyone getting and wearing expensive suits before attacking the Capitol?



Bikini models probably.



shamzie said:


> Do you think one man is capable of manipulating 86,000,000 people.



Yes of course. Why do you think there is an upper bound on it? Some of his twitter followers will be for people who enjoyed laughing at him or they were worried about what he was saying, but the majority are going to be enthralled by him.



shamzie said:


> Trump used the electorate for votes, so he could be President. Wow what a bombshell.



It's supposed to be a two way thing. Politicians shouldn't use the electorate, they should do what is best for the electorate & not what is best for them.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "by definition".  There is evidence, by definition.  A lot of evidence, by definition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The issue with the site in your signature is that actually doesn't prove "mass voter fraud" nor is most of the "evidence" worth a damn. Much of the supposed "evidence" is uncredited "eye-witness" or cherry-picked issues that point more towards issues in the voting process. There are also random examples brought up from past elections that don't even relate to the 2020 election. There are other issues that just make the site and its claims really untrustworthy


----------



## smf (Jan 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> HOW DIRTY is your money, that Your Bank does not want your $5mil.



They probably didn't make enough money out of him anyway, the publicity at taking his account away is probably worth it more.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

Ted Cruz Staffer Resigns 
 I have feeling that More of coming...


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The issue with the site in your signature is that actually doesn't prove "mass voter fraud" nor is most of the "evidence" worth a damn. Much of the supposed "evidence" is uncredited "eye-witness" or cherry-picked issues that point more towards issues in the voting process. There are also random examples brought up from past elections that don't even relate to the 2020 election. There are other issues that just make the site and its claims really untrustworthy



Nothing will ever amount to proof to those who see god in their political ideology.  You have to understand that election fraud is not a new issue, so of course references to past instances would be relatable and relevent.  It is literally a site that focuses on cherry-picking all relevent information regarding rigged elections, but in a crowd-sourced format.  The site even ranks the significance and admissibility of each article.  The site is a repository, not an authority.  So whether the site, itself, is trustworthy or not is irrelevant to the point, as it forwards you to the source to determine for yourself.  It's outdated and missing the newest and greatest information that any curious reader can easily find on their own--but the point is that the contention is not without premise, and that there is indeed evidence, whether you accept it or not.  Trying to dismiss the whole thing under a unilateral criticism is inauthentic in discarding concern over the matter. I believe I insinuated that people looking for evidence will easily find it.  People hiding from evidence will be the last of people to accept it.  Those who are on the fence, are already being pushed over by the actions of big tech and the prominence of a pro-party propaganda arm.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

Breaking News : Rats abandoning ship .

wow, because of this horrible event, the attempted coup
Edit: fixed the link


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Nothing will ever amount to proof to those who see god in their political ideology.  You have to understand that election fraud is not a new issue, so of course references to past instances would be relatable and relevent.  It is literally a site that focuses on cherry-picking all relevent information regarding rigged elections, but in a crowd-sourced format.  The site even ranks the significance and admissibility of each article.  The site is a repository, not an authority.  So whether the site, itself, is trustworthy or not is irrelevant to the point, as it forwards you to the source to determine for yourself.  It's outdated and missing the newest and greatest information that any curious reader can easily find on their own--but the point is that the contention is not without premise, and that there is indeed evidence, whether you accept it or not.  Trying to dismiss the whole thing under a unilateral criticism is inauthentic in discarding concern over the matter. I believe I insinuated that people looking for evidence will easily find it.  People hiding from evidence will be the last of people to accept it.  Those who are on the fence, are already being pushed over by the actions of big tech and the prominence of a pro-party propaganda arm.


So basically you are ok with the site not actually proving the point you are trying to make, you just like the illusion of evidence. Understandable, have nice day.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> So basically you are ok with the site not actually proving the point you are trying to make, you just like the illusion of evidence. Understandable, have nice day.



Obviously you did not comprehend what I wrote and are postulating like your hero politicians.  As I said, the site is not an authority; is a repository.  If you were concerned about evidence, you would easily find it and be left looking (and finding) more.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Obviously you did not comprehend what I wrote and are postulating like your hero politicians.  As I said, the site is not an authority; is a repository.  If you were concerned about evidence, you would easily find it and be left looking (and finding) more.


There is no evidence of widespread election fraud. When you say there was "probably" election fraud despite this, you sound like a complete idiot.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Do you think one man is capable of manipulating 86,000,000 people or that maybe there's a modicum of a chance that you may not be totally correct


As every totalitarian and cultist state ever would suggest, yes, yes he can.


----------



## notimp (Jan 12, 2021)

Signature Bank cut ties:


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Nothing will ever amount to proof to those who see god in their political ideology


This makes no sense.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence of widespread election fraud. When you say there was "probably" election fraud despite this, you sound like a complete idiot.


The truth according to Lacius, who believes that Joe Biden does not prop and defend the image of his son even though there is pedophilia.  There is evidence, as I said.  When I say that it "probably" happened over and over before, I am insinuating that it's approaching the limit where it's becoming undeniable.



Cryoraptor said:


> This makes no sense.



It doesn't make sense to you.  Ok.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "by definition".  There is evidence, by definition.  A lot of evidence, by definition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Biden won by at least seven million. The website totals about two million.
I'm saying you have ~28% MAXIMUM, and that even if every single alleged fraudulent or manipulated vote counted on that site was actually fraudulent _*then Biden would still have won by more than double that.*_


tabzer said:


> Nothing will ever amount to proof to those who see god in their political ideology.  You have to understand that election fraud is not a new issue, so of course references to past instances would be relatable and relevent.  It is literally a site that focuses on cherry-picking all relevent information regarding rigged elections, but in a crowd-sourced format.  The site even ranks the significance and admissibility of each article.  The site is a repository, not an authority.  So whether the site, itself, is trustworthy or not is irrelevant to the point, as it forwards you to the source to determine for yourself.  It's outdated and missing the newest and greatest information that any curious reader can easily find on their own--but the point is that the contention is not without premise, and that there is indeed evidence, whether you accept it or not.  Trying to dismiss the whole thing under a unilateral criticism is inauthentic in discarding concern over the matter. I believe I insinuated that people looking for evidence will easily find it.  People hiding from evidence will be the last of people to accept it.  Those who are on the fence, are already being pushed over by the actions of big tech and the prominence of a pro-party propaganda arm.


Uh... what the fuck? Not only are you admitting the site is blatantly cherry-picking the bits that agree with it while ignoring the rest as well as being fundamentally unreliable, you're also trying to derail our arguments by throwing a completely unrelated _*deific accusation*_ at them! For the record, I'm agnostic- and my faith increasingly wavers the more I see Trump brainwash people into spouting stupid shit like this without consequence.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It doesn't make sense to you. Ok.


No, it doesn't make sense in the English language. I can't tell if it's a typo, or if you're calling out supposed divine invoking on the opposing side.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> When I say that it "probably" happened over and over before, I am insinuating that it's approaching the limit where it's becoming undeniable


So election fraud is becoming undeniable... because you said so. Right.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> No, it doesn't make sense in the English language. I can't tell if it's a typo, or if you're calling out supposed divine invoking on the opposing side.



I'm saying that even people who do not believe in capital GOD will idolize and attempt to immortalize bunk politics.



Plasmaster09 said:


> I'm saying you have ~28% MAXIMUM, and that even if every single alleged fraudulent or manipulated vote counted on that site was actually fraudulent *then Biden would still have won by more than double that.*



It only takes 1% of the evidence to swing the election the other direction.  28% is of the evidence being real does not equal 28% of the vote.  What are you thinking?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Cryoraptor said:


> So election fraud is becoming undeniable... because you said so. Right.



Not because I said so.  There has been a definite statement that there is no evidence of election fraud, even though every election has evidence of fraud.  It's an issue that has never been put to rest, and it is a limit that is continually being approached.  I do believe, that this time, there will be an outcome where everybody will agree.  It's obviously not at this point in the dialogue, as you still disagree with me.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The truth according to Lacius, who believes that Joe Biden does not prop and defend the image of his son even though there is pedophilia.  There is evidence, as I said.  When I say that it "probably" happened over and over before, I am insinuating that it's approaching the limit where it's becoming undeniable.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't make sense to you.  Ok.


You can't say widespread election fraud is "undeniable" without providing evidence of widespread voter fraud. Not without sounding like a fool, anyway.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm saying that even people who do not believe in capital GOD will idolize and attempt to immortalize bunk politics.


Haha


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm saying that even people who do not believe in capital GOD will idolize and attempt to immortalize bunk politics.
> 
> 
> 
> It only takes 1% of the evidence to swing the election the other direction.  28% is of the evidence being real does not equal 28% of the vote.  What are you thinking?


first off, your delusional deific comparison is contradicting itself
first you claim that those who see God will not accept proof, then you claim even people that don't believe in God will... do whatever the fuck that last string of snarl words is
you sure seem pretty religious to insist on capital G-O-D, so your original quote applies to you far more than you intended
and secondly...
dude this is basic math and you're still messing it up
the margin of victory was about 7 million
the website has about 2 million
2 million is about 28% *of 7 million*
you wouldn't need 1% of that evidence (or even 1% of the total vote- you already """""have""""" that and it's nowhere near enough since that too is far less than 7 million), you'd need roughly 350% of it- which is to say, far more than you have and likely ever will have


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Not because I said so. There has been a definite statement that there is no evidence of election fraud, even though every election has evidence of fraud. It's an issue that has never been put to rest, and it is a limit that is continually being approached. I do believe, that this time, there will be an outcome where everybody will agree. It's obviously not at this point in the dialogue, as you still disagree with me


'No it's not because I said so but basically yeah it's undeniable because I say so'.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> first you claim that those who see God will not accept proof, then you claim even people that don't believe in God will... do whatever the fuck that last string of narl words is you sure seem pretty religious to insist on capital G-O-D, so your original quote applies to you far more than you intended



You misunderstand my claim then.  My claim is that people are arguing for their political outcome like people who argue about religion.  Everyone is practicing faith.



Plasmaster09 said:


> the margin of victory was about 7 million
> the website has about 2 million
> 2 million is about 28% *of 7 million*



Going off the cuff, almost every point of contention is enough to swing the whole election into a chaotic "who won?" scenario.  It only takes one of them being right to making that happen.  Your %28 evidence equals %28 of the vote doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You misunderstand my claim then.  My claim is that people are arguing for their political outcome like people who argue about religion.  Everyone is practicing faith.
> 
> 
> 
> Going off the cuff, almost every point of contention is enough to swing the whole election into a chaotic "who won?" scenario.  It only takes one of them being right to making that happen.  Your %28 evidence equals %28 of the vote doesn't make sense to me.


Believing in widespread election fraud despite lack of evidence is an act of faith. Failure to believe in widespread election fraud due to lack of evidence is an act of skepticism.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> 'No it's not because I said so but basically yeah it's undeniable because I say so'.



Is undeniable =/= is becoming undeniable

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Believing in widespread election fraud despite lack of evidence is an act of faith. Failure to believe in widespread election fraud due to lack of evidence is an act of skepticism.



Believing that there is no evidence for election fraud is an act of willful ignorance.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You misunderstand my claim then.  My claim is that people are arguing for their political outcome like people who argue about religion.  Everyone is practicing faith.
> 
> 
> 
> Going off the cuff, almost every point of contention is enough to swing the whole election into a chaotic "who won?" scenario.  It only takes one of them being right to making that happen.  Your %28 evidence equals %28 of the vote doesn't make sense to me.


for the last time, I never said it equals 28% of the vote
if you seriously had that much evidence, no matter how sketchy, I might actually reexamine things a bit more than I do
but you don't
you have """""evidence""""" roughly equal to 28% of the *margin of victory*
to prove that Trump would have been the true victor, you'd need to prove that there were more fraudulent votes for Biden than he won by
you don't have anywhere near that many, and you likely never will

also... I'm not practicing faith
I'm practicing basic early-middle-school math
please practice something other than what you preach, because what you preach would get an F


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Is undeniable =/= is becoming undeniable


This is meaningless and doesn't address the point in any way.



tabzer said:


> Believing that there is a lack of evidence for election fraud is an act of willful ignorance.


No, it's an act of acknowledging reality. 'well it's been speculated for so long so it must be happening and it's probably this one because a candidate I like lost' is not evidence, and dismissing such feckless claims is not ignorance. You are being played by your dear leader to stir the pot and spread nonsense to try and defy democracy and keep himself in power. The willfully ignorant one here is you.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Is undeniable =/= is becoming undeniable
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


No evidence of widespread election fraud as been provided. It is physically impossible for a skeptic to believe in widespread election fraud while that continues to be the case.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Is undeniable =/= is becoming undeniable
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


It's not becoming undeniable either.

And there is some evidence- there always is- but a) it's unreliable and b) it's _*far, far, far, FAR too small to change the results in any meaningful way.*_ Claiming the evidence you have is both reliable enough and large enough to prove that there was widespread fraud and that Trump was the true victor is like grabbing a handful of sand and claiming you just stole an entire pyramid like Vector in Despicable Me.

But it's worthless to try to educate you. After all, you treat Trump like some incorruptible absolute deity to worship and believe without question, and as you said... nothing will ever amount to proof for those who see god in their political ideology.

Oh, and while we're on the topic of vote tampering, what about the mobs of Trumpers, instructed by the man himself, that tried to force states to stop counting votes halfway through because most of the votes left to count just so happened to be absentee ballots for Biden? If illegally submitting ballots is voter fraud, surely illegally refusing to ACCEPT ballots is too, right?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

lol FMR Rep (R-SC) Bob Inglis "we should have pity on them for believe on that Q Anon cult"


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> It's not becoming undeniable either



Yes it is.  It is a trend.  The starting point was "no evidence" and every day is more and more evidence.  That is the act of becoming.



Plasmaster09 said:


> if you seriously had that much evidence, no matter how sketchy, I might actually reexamine things a bit more than I do
> but you don't



I only need enough evidence to be convinced, myself.  You might have impossible standards, maybe to the point of requiring your own government to admit to you, personally,"yes we are ****ing you over", when everyone else already knows it.



Cryoraptor said:


> No, it's an act of acknowledging reality. 'well it's been speculated for so long so it must be happening and it's probably this one because a candidate I like lost' is not evidence, and dismissing such feckless claims is not ignorance.



Reality TV? It wasn't the simple act of a candidate losing that provided all these articles of evidence supporting something more substantial than that.  



Lacius said:


> No evidence of widespread election fraud as been provided. It is physically impossible for a skeptic to believe in widespread election fraud while that continues to be the case.



Try being skeptical of your puppet show of a democracy, then come back to me about what a skeptic would consider.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Yes it is.  It is a trend.  The starting point was "no evidence" and every day is more and more evidence.  That is the act of becoming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More and more evidence, all of which is rather sketchy (mostly eyewitness) and still totals nowhere near a result-changing amount.

I don't have impossible standards, I just also look at the misses in addition to the hits. Every shred of """""evidence""""" piled up in favor of fraud can't even muster a third of the margin of victory, while all but _*one*_ of Trump's numerous pathetic legal battles have all been losses that only served to prove things were legitimate.

"All these articles of evidence" are all about as flimsy as piss-coated tissue paper and once again DO NOT TOTAL ANYWHERE NEAR ENOUGH TO CHANGE THE RESULTS.

Oh, and please GTFO with the No True Scotsman fallacy. A skeptic isn't no longer a skeptic just because he's skeptical about the thing you're (somehow deluding yourself into) believing as opposed to doubting the (frankly far less doubt-worthy) opposite!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Reality TV? It wasn't the simple act of a candidate losing that provided all these articles of evidence supporting something more substantial than that.


Ok, let's take your link's figure of just over 2 million fucked ballots. Biden won, and yes, that's the correct term, won, by over 7 million. So the election's result is still correct by 5 million votes and Trump still lost. Bye Trumptard.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Ok, let's take your link's figure of just over 2 million fucked ballots. Biden won, and yes, that's the correct term, won, by over 7 million. So the election's result is still correct by 5 million votes and Trump still lost. Bye Trumptard.


I hope he'll bother hearing my point now that you've restated it.
I figure there's a small chance, considering he believes that hammering in Trump's shoddy lies about the election results over and over might just serve to brainwash us too rather than just make him look like a lunatic.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Yes it is.  It is a trend.  The starting point was "no evidence" and every day is more and more evidence.  That is the act of becoming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is no evidence the election was a "puppet show."


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence the election was a "puppet show."


I think he meant  that the Q anon Trump supporter were the "puppet" as they were misled


----------



## tabzer (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence the election was a "puppet show."



So Lacius wants to be a politician.  Oh well.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence the election was a "puppet show."


Ironically, there is.
However, that puppet show is *Trump trying to pull the President of Ukraine around on shitty little strings to get him to investigate his opponent's son.*


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I hope he'll bother hearing my point now that you've restated it.
> I figure there's a small chance, considering he believes that hammering in Trump's shoddy lies about the election results over and over might just serve to brainwash us too rather than just make him look like a lunatic.


I doubt it. These people are the exact same ideologues who kicked up a massive fuss over Hillary losing in 2016 and came up with the russha conspiraceh, just going for the other side. The other side of the coin, if you will.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So Lacius wants to be a politician.  Oh well.


I'd vote for him.
Better the devil you know (that is, the version with standards that's also well-acquainted with law and basic tenets of reality) than the one you don't (we may all know Trump, but his mind is such a labyrinth of purified Fucking Stupid that he's impossible to predict).
Then again, it's a low bar- and Trump makes most other people look like complete and utter angels by comparison.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So Lacius wants to be a politician.  Oh well.


Definitely not.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

This is sad
*Trump supporter, 53, who was arrested at Capitol riot is found dead*
its does not look like sucide.. 
rumors are stated they thought he snitched..


----------



## g00s3y (Jan 12, 2021)

Imagine still being a trump supporter...

The fucking delusions that must go through a persons mind... I couldn't take enough drugs to understand.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

g00s3y said:


> Imagine still being a trump supporter...
> 
> The fucking delusions that must go through a persons mind... I couldn't take enough drugs to understand.



I bet you've tried though


----------



## g00s3y (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I bet you've tried though



I can't smoke enough weed to get that messed up.

I'm sure some other drugs could do the job, but I haven't turned into Florida Man yet, even after being down here for over 9 years now.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Try being skeptical of your puppet show of a democracy, then come back to me about what a skeptic would consider.


You mean like questioning the use of the electoral college over the popular vote?


----------



## Xzi (Jan 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> This is sad
> *Trump supporter, 53, who was arrested at Capitol riot is found dead*
> its does not look like sucide..
> rumors are stated they thought he snitched..


Fucking rabid animals man.  They sense any divergence from the hivemind whatsoever, and immediately turn on each other.  Cults are brutal.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

g00s3y said:


> I can't smoke enough weed to get that messed up.
> 
> I'm sure some other drugs could do the job, but I haven't turned into Florida Man yet, even after being down here for over 9 years now.


Even if I smoked a shit ton of DMT, I don't think I could convince myself that Trump won by a landslide.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Even if I smoked a shit ton of DMT, I don't think I could convince myself that Trump won by a landslide.


I could take every mind-altering substance known to man (and the unknown ones, too), grind them up into a collective madness paste, ingest or inject them in every way possible including _*direct injection into the brain,*_ and even the psychedelic Dadaist abominations wandering about my field of view spewing eldritch pseudo-rhetoric couldn't give me a single shred of doubt about the fact that Joe Biden won and won legitimately.

(Only downside is their alleged evidence might actually be slightly more trustworthy or reliable, but that's a low bar.)


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no difference between "Trump's loss" and "Biden's win."


Outcome, sure, but I do wish there would have been and will be more Presidents and government people in general to vote for and not simply against. Not that I'm saying people didn't vote for Biden, but I'd be surprised if most people wasn't voting simply to get Trump out.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Definitely not.


Hmpf.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

There you go DOJ just stated they are going to charge  "seditious conspiracy ".. to the attempted coup
Plus 100,000 pic and videos taken on the Capitol  means a lot of people going to be charged


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Even if I smoked a shit ton of DMT, I don't think I could convince myself that Trump won by a landslide.


That’s crazy, have you ever tried DMT?


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> There you go DOJ just stated they are going to charge  "seditious conspiracy ".. to the attempted coup
> Plus 100,000 pic and videos taken on the Capitol  means a lot of people going to be charged



This is great news, hopefully when they're finished they'll start with everyone who participated in the BLM riots for over 6 months.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader,  believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and t pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> That’s crazy, have you ever tried DMT?


No, but I eventually hope to.


----------



## smf (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> This is great news, hopefully when they're finished they'll start with everyone who participated in the BLM riots for over 6 months.



Not everyone who participated in the BLM marches committed a crime. It is hard to say that someone who just marched down the street was in a conspiracy with people who burned out a car.

And it's unlikely that everyone at the capitol would pass the bar for conspiracy either, but unless they investigate then they can't know.

You can say it's hypocritical that the politicians are more interested because it happened to them.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 12, 2021)

smf said:


> Not everyone who participated in the BLM marches committed a crime.


Let me make a better argument for you before shamzie decides to play the "well my side didn't either" card.


shamzie said:


> This is great news, hopefully when they're finished they'll start with everyone who participated in the BLM riots for over 6 months.



Most of BLM marches, almost every single one, every single protest is peaceful. So really, most won't get arrested. Or shouldn't be.
Most proud boy or any other faction on the right tends to go very violent and fast. And especially those on the capital, invading a space like that, would definitely warrant arrests


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence of any presidential election since JFK having been rigged.
> There is no evidence the 2020 election was rigged, obviously or otherwise.
> A majority of Americans do not believe the 2020 election was rigged.
> Whether or not "over half the country" believes the 2020 election was rigged is irrelevant to its truthfulness.
> There is no evidence that Biden "enables pedophilia."



Thanks for pointing that out... That TROLL is back from suspension and the first thing he says is a trolling sentence.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 12, 2021)

One side had the clear intent to kill (proud boy, maga, etc. bombs, guns. etc)
and the other side clearly had no intent. (BLM)


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 12, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Obviously you did not comprehend what I wrote and are postulating like your hero politicians.  As I said, the site is not an authority; is a repository.  If you were concerned about evidence, you would easily find it and be left looking (and finding) more.


I am literally an anarchist, I don’t see any politician as “heroes.” That being said, the site presents itself as “evidence” and you even believe in mass voter fraud. Yet going to the site there’s very little actual evidence and most of what’s on there isn’t worth a damn. Even looking deeper into their claims is mostly turning up obvious conspiracy theories with little to no evidence. You aren’t presenting a case in favor of mass voter fraud, you are presenting that mass voter fraud is an obvious hoax.


morvoran said:


> Following by the example of uninformed leftists, I'll just go with the context I saw in that video. It was plain as day that he admitted to voter fraud.


You just admitted to willful ignorance because reality doesn’t fit your narrative. You aren’t really making a convincing argument when you admit that you are willing to ignore additional information if it doesn’t work in your favor.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> This is great news, hopefully when they're finished they'll start with everyone who participated in the BLM riots for over 6 months.


BLM was done in the STREETS! Not on restricted area! Also BLM didn't beat cops and drag them down stairs as they were getting kicked and punched by your friends! 
Wake up man... Watch the news... Cameras don't lie, your eyes don't lie. Stop being to blind, ignorant and such a troll!


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 12, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> That’s crazy, have you ever tried DMT?


Yes


----------



## smf (Jan 12, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And especially those on the capital, invading a space like that, would definitely warrant arrests



I think you might be able to invade the capitol for a peaceful protest and get away with it. The problem is that they had weapons and were trying to over throw the government & insurrection is itself illegal.

Trump and Rudy called for a fight and they fought, it's kinda open and shut case if they have the guts


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Let me make a better argument for you before shamzie decides to play the "well my side didn't either" card.
> 
> 
> Most of BLM marches, almost every single one, every single protest is peaceful. So really, most won't get arrested. Or shouldn't be.
> Most proud boy or any other faction on the right tends to go very violent and fast. And especially those on the capital, invading a space like that, would definitely warrant arrests






White_Raven_X said:


> BLM was done in the STREETS! Not on restricted area! Also BLM didn't beat cops and drag them down stairs as they were getting kicked and punched by your friends!
> Wake up man... Watch the news... Cameras don't lie, your eyes don't lie. Stop being to blind, ignorant and such a troll!





lol okay


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

*Rep. John Katko becomes first House Republican to back Trump impeachment*
*Trump Just tried to pull the wrong piece in jenga, it’s able to fall all down 




*


----------



## rensenware (Jan 12, 2021)

shamzie said:


> lol okay



I can cherrypick clips too. I literally went to about 5 BLM protests in mid-2020. There was no violence.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

Oh and Liz Cheney now impeaching also


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> I can cherrypick clips too. I literally went to about 5 BLM protests in mid-2020. There was no violence.


Considering one of Shamzie's favorite tools is the _tu quoque_ argument, I'm somewhat amused about the prospect of him applying its converse to this and proudly (and likely Proud-ly) stating he's well informed about the Capitol riots due to taking part in them!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

IncredulousP said:


> Yes


What was it like

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



shamzie said:


> lol okay



With a clickbaity all caps title like that, I'm willing to accept that they are cherry-picked clips without context. Yes some BLM splinters are lunatics but a lot of it was peaceful.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> What was it like


ngl I find it funny that discussion of literal drugs ends up being preferable to trying to reason with shamzie and crew due to the latter being worse than nothing in terms of time expended to facts accepted


----------



## Xzi (Jan 12, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader,  believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and t pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party


Holy shit, McConnell is the last Republican I would've expected to flip on this issue.  Then again, he's evil, not stupid.  He can see the writing on the wall: Trump doesn't care about what happens to the GOP from here on out, so there's no reason for the GOP to care about what happens to him either.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> ngl I find it funny that discussion of literal drugs ends up being preferable to trying to reason with shamzie and crew due to the latter being worse than nothing in terms of time expended to facts accepted


Yes haha. Doesn't help that there's nothing else to do with lockdown and all and my brain feels like it's degenerating.


----------



## smf (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Yes some BLM splinters are lunatics but a lot of it was peaceful.



Someone told me all the violence at BLM marches was by Trump supporters pretending to be black anyway.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 12, 2021)

smf said:


> Someone told me all the violence at BLM marches was by Trump supporters pretending to be black anyway.


I think you probably mean "pretending to be with BLM" but ngl I would be zero percent surprised if there were not only Trumpian instigators but Trumpian instigators _in blackface_


----------



## smf (Jan 12, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I think you probably mean "pretending to be with BLM" but ngl I would be zero percent surprised if there were not only Trumpian instigators but Trumpian instigators _in blackface_



I meant what I said. I thought I'd make it as ridiculous as the claim that all the violence in the capitol was by antifa members who were living as trump supporters.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 12, 2021)

*How arrests in the Capitol riot compare to that of Black Lives Matter protests
*

*Unrest Arrests in Washington D.C.*

Arrests related to the storming of the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, compared to unrest-related arrests in Washington D.C. following the death of George Floyd on May 25, 2020.

Source: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01...day-compare-that-black-lives-matter-protests/


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 12, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> I can cherrypick clips too. I literally went to about 5 BLM protests in mid-2020. There was no violence.


Wow a whole 5 you say, well then I guess the violence was imaginary. David Dorn definitely wasn't murdered. No shops were looted because it didn't happen when you were there.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 12, 2021)

This is very bothersome to me... Why would Foxi4 support shamzie who was just suspended for "TROLLING" clearly visible for everyone to see, and yet we can't get another mod to moderate this... Wth has gbatemp become! This is egregious!

This is a perfect reflection of the police all around the US picking and choosing who they will side with, when they are supposed to just "side" with the law... The oath that they all took when they started their employment!

I guess gbatemp mods don't take an oath. Lol

*edit* Foxi4 has been reported to gbatemp for favoring people who go against board rules.


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> What was it like


The apartment twisted in on itself then I saw a big checkerboard spiral before coming down to what felt like a super dank weed high. Though the dose I had was "barely anything" at the time, apparently.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 12, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *How arrests in the Capitol riot compare to that of Black Lives Matter protests*
> 
> 
> *Unrest Arrests in Washington D.C.*
> ...


Heres a better chart

1. Try to create a failed Seditious Coup
BLM=0 "Trump's Patriots"=1


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 12, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Yes some BLM splinters are lunatics but a lot of it was peaceful.


Yes, some patriots were lunatics, but a lot of it was peaceful.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 12, 2021)

Watching Trumpettes dance around domestic terrorism and sedition is hilarious. I'm pretty sure their brains are like a bag of pretzels by now.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Yes, some patriots were lunatics, but a lot of it was peaceful.


I never said anything contrary to this. I accept that most protesting during a time of unrest is not violent. But this is just a game of whatabouttery; the violence on both sides, when it happens, is bad.

*Snip!*



IncredulousP said:


> The apartment twisted in on itself then I saw a big checkerboard spiral before coming down to what felt like a super dank weed high. Though the dose I had was "barely anything" at the time, apparently.


Damn. Where can I sign up?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

it's kinda hilarious because it's not like they don't already have an entire dictionary's worth of snarl words and various other modern derogatories to throw at our argument, but resorted to pulling tactics from a rather specific personality type I'll coin a term for right now- the Chad Hominem, who believes that sidestepping opponents' arguments to bash them personally using the argumentative equivalent of poorly-applied brute force somehow makes them seem more intelligent
like dude at least take a big stick to our topically-relevant opinions (or even better, our actual points) instead of irrelevant traits like profile pictures
but Chad Hoministic pointless nonsense aside... denying that Biden's victory was valid at this point is about as stupid as trying to maintain a belief in geocentrism- except that instead of the Earth, it essentially requires people to behave as if half the damn universe revolves around one Donald John Trump, Sr.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> This is very bothersome to me... Why would Foxi4 support shamzie who was just suspended for "TROLLING" clearly visible for everyone to see, and yet we can't get another mod to moderate this... Wth has gbatemp become! This is egregious!
> 
> This is a perfect reflection of the police all around the US picking and choosing who they will side with, when they are supposed to just "side" with the law... The oath that they all took when they started their employment!
> 
> ...


Maybe because _*I'm the one who suspended him*_, genius. He immediately started misbehaving upon his return, so I politely reminded him to behave.


Foxi4 said:


> *Welcome back*. The subject naturally gravitated towards climate policy, but I'm pretty sure we're done with that. *Please maintain an acceptable level of decorum and we won't have any issues going forward*.


Or did you miss that bit? It appears the joke flew over your head.

I only accept apologies that are delivered with a box of chocolates, by the way.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Sleepy Joe rigged the election.





Foxi4 said:


> Maybe because _*I'm the one who suspended him*_, genius. He immediately started misbehaving upon his return, so I politely reminded him to behave.
> Or did you miss that bit? It appears the joke flew over your head.
> 
> I only accept apologies that are delivered with a box of chocolates, by the way.



I've been following this thread since the beginning. I have read everything Shamzie has written before you have edited it. My question to you sir, why did you leave the section you left when it goes against the rules? That is pure trolling which was left. Why not just remove everything? And on top of that, the first things he writes when he comes out of suspension is comments against others and more trolling... And that's ok? He should be back in the dog house because obviously he doesn't give a poop about what his suspension was about as he's just doing the same again

My problem is that your favoring a side of this discussion and it's obviously reflecting the decisions you are taking in this thread.

Furthermore, I appreciate discussion on gbatemp Because it's not full of people who lie and say falsehoods that aren't backed by proof... But lately it seems this forum has gone sideways and theres no mod who is willing to set it right.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> I've been following this thread since the beginning. I have read everything Shamzie has written before you have edited it. My question to you sir, why did you leave the section you left when it goes against the rules? That is pure trolling which was left. Why not just remove everything? And on top of that, the first things he writes when he comes out of suspension is comments against others and more trolling... And that's ok? He should be back in the dog house because obviously he doesn't give a poop about what his suspension was about as he's just doing the same again
> 
> My problem is that your favoring a side of this discussion and it's obviously reflecting the decisions you are taking in this thread.


The post was reported repeatedly, and every single time it was getting smaller and smaller, trimmed until it finally ended in the form it is in now - the only sentence remotely connected to the thread, if unsubstantiated. It was edited by multiple members of staff, mind - I don't sit here all day, I value my mental health.

The politics section is unique in the sense that we purposefully enable as much free speech as humanly possible and only remove overtly inflammatory content, as per the specific guidelines of the subforum. This means that sometimes you'll see things you don't like, or consider "wrong". You can argue your point of view, or point out the inaccuracies, or you can ignore them.

You can refer to the guidelines here: https://gbatemp.net/threads/disclaimer-read-this-before-posting.493895/

The short version is: "_stay civil and respectful, use logic-based arguments if you disagree with someone, mods will pull the trigger without hesitation if you don't"_. If that's what he believes, that's what he believes - argue your side.

EDIT: I removed the "Welcome Back" edit note now since it can admittedly be misconstrued without the rest of the post. Hopefully that resolves any future confusion. Carry on.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The post was reported repeatedly, and every single time it was getting smaller and smaller, trimmed until it finally ended in the form it is in now - the only sentence remotely connected to the thread, if unsubstantiated. It was edited by multiple members of staff, mind - I don't sit here all day, I value my mental health.
> 
> The politics section is unique in the sense that we purposefully enable as much free speech as humanly possible and only remove overtly inflammatory content, as per the specific guidelines of the subforum. This means that sometimes you'll see things you don't like, or consider "wrong". You can argue your point of view, or point out the inaccuracies, or you can ignore them.
> 
> ...



The fact that Shamzie just came back from a suspension related to THE SAME infractions he just wrote as he just got out of suspension and that multiple mods missed this... Blows my mind.

The fact that you ask me to "ignore" items that are blatantly FALSE and continue to spread FAKE News and false information makes me cringe... Maybe I'll just find another thread that doesn't have you as a moderator.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> The fact that Shamzie just came back from a suspension related to THE SAME infractions he just wrote as he just got out of suspension and that multiple mods missed this... Blows my mind.
> 
> The fact that you ask me to "ignore" items that are blatantly FALSE and continue to spread FAKE News and false information makes me cringe... Maybe I'll just find another thread that doesn't have you as a moderator.


That's... not how our workload works. Sorry to see you feel that way, but we primarily focus on inflammatory content and ridiculous conspiracies - election fraud is still a subject of discussion, regardless of lack of any conclusive evidence, and he has as much right to say that he believes in it as you have the right to think the election was fair. I'm pretty sure that was abundantly obvious given the fact that the last few pages are almost exclusively about supposed election fraud. And yes, if a particular user does irk you to such an extent, you can add them to your Ignore list, it's rather simple.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That's... not how our workload works. Sorry to see you feel that way, but we primarily focus on inflammatory content and ridiculous conspiracies - election fraud is still a subject of discussion, regardless of lack of any conclusive evidence, and he has as much right to say that he believes in it as you have the right to think the election was fair. I'm pretty sure that was abundantly obvious given the fact that the last few pages are almost exclusively about supposed election fraud. And yes, if a particular user does irk you to such an extent, you can add them to your Ignore list, it's rather simple.



I'm sorry but there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of Joe Biden "rigging" the election! You must be out of your mind! Goodbye... Find another forum to mod.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That's... not how our workload works. Sorry to see you feel that way, but we primarily focus on inflammatory content and ridiculous conspiracies - election fraud is still a subject of discussion, regardless of lack of any conclusive evidence, and he has as much right to say that he believes in it as you have the right to think the election was fair. I'm pretty sure that was abundantly obvious given the fact that the last few pages are almost exclusively about supposed election fraud. And yes, if a particular user does irk you to such an extent, you can add them to your Ignore list, it's rather simple.


I hate to say this, but you're 100% right.
Regardless of how bullshit the fraud claims are, they are relevant to this thread and people do in fact have the right to believe them and state that belief.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I hate to say this, but you're 100% right.
> Regardless of how bullshit the fraud claims are, they are relevant to this thread and people do in fact have the right to believe them and state that belief.


I try my best to be fair and balanced. That means neither side likes me. I am fine with this - I like being the villain, that's why I'm in the Politics section, modding the worst of the worst parts of the Temp to mod. Nobody is ever happy with the results, you'll always upset one side or the other, which is perhaps an accurate reflection of modern politics in general.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

The issue here is that not even GBATEMP is willing to STOP the fake news and falsehoods that are destroying/dividing America! Thanks!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

If we're done complaining now, which is all entirely off-topic, but I allowed it for the purposes of transparency, we can get back to the election news - the matter has been thoroughly discussed and it's about time to get back on-topic. If you have any further objections or criticism, you're welcome to message me - as I always say, I promptly respond to any job-related correspondence.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If we're done complaining now, which is all entirely off-topic, but I allowed it for the purposes of transparency, we can get back to the election news - the matter has been thoroughly discussed and it's about time to get back on-topic. If you have any further objections or criticism, you're welcome to message me - as I always say, I promptly respond to any job-related correspondence.



I appreciate the transparency.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 13, 2021)




----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Something I read that's a little light hearted... Sort of!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Something I read that's a little light hearted... Sort of!


Ironic when you consider that Creepy Joe broke his leg playing with a dog.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 13, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Ironic when you consider that Creepy Joe broke his leg playing with a dog.


It's ironic that you refer to Joe as "Creepy" but ignore the creepy behavior of Trump. Worth stressing they are both creeps and quite honestly neither of them deserves respect for their creepy behavior and history.


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 13, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> It's ironic that you refer to Joe as "Creepy" but ignore the creepy behavior of Trump. Worth stressing they are both creeps and quite honestly neither of them deserves respect for their creepy behavior and history.


Joe's a little creepy, sure, but Donny is on record for molestation and invading underage changing rooms.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> 86,000,000 people


Of which half were bots or burner accounts.


----------



## notimp (Jan 13, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> Of which half were bots or burner accounts.


And the other half were not...

?

Its just 30k people you stripped of their support networks - and that are now potentially resorting to the streets to organize. (According to twitter, there is still high activity on organization for the three days surrounding the inauguration.)

So good luck on the suppression and minimizing - Trumps approval rating is down to 30%. Dont know if thats worth it.

Lets look at the concessions the democrats now make for 'healing' (Colbert):

Everyone who even stood on the steps of the capitol should be arrested.
They also should turn themselves in.
They also should denounce Trump.
They also should apologize.
They also should just shut up.
And seize to exist.
And come over to the other side.

Thats the pitch currently. Lets see how well it works.


----------



## Iamapirate (Jan 13, 2021)

It will be interesting to see the contrast in media coverage. Inevitably Kamala will be heralded as a fantastic president.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> Of which half were bots or burner accounts.



How you do you know it's half?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 13, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Ironic when you consider that Creepy Joe broke his leg playing with a dog.


Ironic concidering Trump used to creep on girls as young as 15 when he owned the Miss Universe franchise. You know because it's not totally creepy as fuck to burst into a young girls dressing room with no knowledge before hand of what state of undress she may be in ect.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ro...ness-while-he-owned-miss-universe-191860/amp/

Or what about the time trump said about a 10 year old girl that in 10 years time he would be dating her. Yep once again not creepy as hell.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-girl-dating-comments-sexual-assault-claims-republican-party-a7358686.html?amp

Oh look Trump has also been creepy about 2 fourteen year old girls

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-14-year-old-girls-women-couple-years-dating-you-chicago-tribune-1992-article-teenagers-a7360631.html?amp

Or it wasn't totally creepy when Trump said this about his OWN DAUGHTER 

If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> How you do you know it's half?


I don't to be honest but it has been proven there is a lot of bots/fake accounts under his followers. I highly doubt he has that many real followers. Or rather had.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Ironic when you consider that Creepy Joe broke his leg playing with a dog.


I'll be honest, I am still befuddled by the circumstances of how that happened. From what I gathered, he was taking a shower, the dog walked up to him with a ball wanting to play, Joe started chasing the dog, pulled its tail "as a joke", the dog slipped on a rug and subsequently Joe took a fall on it as well. This... Kind of implies that a soaking wet Joe Biden fresh out of a shower was chasing his dog around the house, which is hilarious if true, but with his memory I'm sure he's omitting some of the crucial details. This presidency is going to be something else.

https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/biden-says-he-broke-foot-after-shower-when-he-pulled-dogs-tail/


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 13, 2021)

Take these numbers with a grain of salt especially since they are from 2018:
https://sparktoro.com/blog/we-analy...rump-61-are-bots-spam-inactive-or-propaganda/


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'll be honest, I am still befuddled by the circumstances of how that happened. From what I gathered, he was taking a shower, the dog walked up to him with a ball wanting to play, Joe started chasing the dog, pulled its tail "as a joke", the dog slipped on a rug and subsequently Joe took a fall on it as well. This... Kind of implies that a soaking wet Joe Biden fresh out of a shower was chasing his dog around the house, which is hilarious if true, but with his memory I'm sure he's omitting some of the crucial details. This presidency is going to be something else.
> 
> https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/biden-says-he-broke-foot-after-shower-when-he-pulled-dogs-tail/


Sounds like A Benny Hill scetch. A very bizarre circumstance indeed.

I Guess only lovers of old British comedy will get the Benny Hill reference 

I now have the Benny Hill theme in my head lol


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> Take these numbers with a grain of salt especially since they are from 2018:
> https://sparktoro.com/blog/we-analy...rump-61-are-bots-spam-inactive-or-propaganda/


I can vouch for having seen loads of bots there, but most of the spam I witnessed was coming from *anti-Trump accounts* spamming the same story links and posts repeatedly, which was rather annoying if you tried to actually read the feed. I do wonder what all the anti-Trump grifters are going to do now that their source of income was cut. Scammers like the Krassenstein brothers (who got banned and returned using Mrs.Krassenstein's account) are out of a job now.

https://variety.com/2019/digital/ne...assenstein-brothers-fake-accounts-1203225266/


AmandaRose said:


> Sounds like A Benny Hill scetch. A very bizarre circumstance indeed.
> 
> I Guess only lovers of old British comedy will get the Benny Hill reference
> 
> I now have the Benny Hill theme in my head lol


Yakety Sax all say long. Damn, that was a good show, rest in peace Benny.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I can vouch for having seen loads of bots there



Loads you say. Is that 10? 20?


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 13, 2021)

... Benny Hill and The Goodies.

Now those bring back some memories.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I can vouch for having seen loads of bots there, but most of the spam I witnessed was coming from *anti-Trump accounts* spamming the same story links and posts repeatedly, which was rather annoying if you tried to actually read the feed. I do wonder what all the anti-Trump grifters are going to do now that their source of income was cut. Scammers like the Krassenstein brothers (who got banned and returned using Mrs.Krassenstein's account) are out of a job now.


I don't doubt that most of the spam is coming from angry haters. It happens on both sides.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> Loads you say. Is that 10? 20?


I could easily identify dozens of recurring no-name accounts/obvious organisations operating under the guise of being a private individual that did nothing but repeatedly spammed the exact same copy-pasted tweets on his feed - @hkrassenstein is one, @itsJeffTiedrich also comes to mind - he didn't defraud anyone to my knowledge like the brothers did, he was just there to shill for colouring books, of all things. @eugenegu was there shilling his business 24/7 as well, along with his army of sycophants who still haven't figured out that the man isn't a licensed physician and only sells smoking cessation products via telemedicine. There were also actual machine bots, usually with silly names like "Science Reality" who posted nothing about science on their actual feeds and existed solely to call the President "drumpf" or repost unfunny memes. It was a bit of a shit show if you actually tried to read what was being said. Sadly I won't be able to demonstrate as the feed is no longer available. In any case, "hating Trump" was a presumably profitable enterprise.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> In any case, "hating Trump" was a presumably profitable enterprise.



Spamming Trumps feed to sell things doesn't count as hating though does it?

I don't think anyone hates him for profit, it's more to do with morality. If you are honorable then you don't like Trump.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> Spamming Trumps feed to sell things doesn't count as hating though does it?
> 
> I don't think anyone hates him for profit, it's more to do with morality. If you are honorable then you don't like Trump.


I'll support the devil himself if he pushes the country in a direction that enables its citizenry to be more prosperous. Focusing on the moral shortcomings of one person neglects any care about the well-being of the many. I'm perfectly comfortable overlooking the fact that Trump was mouthy if everyone ends up with a little more in their pockets at the end of the year, from top to bottom of the social hierarchy, and I consider that a moral good.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> The issue here is that not even GBATEMP is willing to STOP the fake news and falsehoods that are destroying/dividing America! Thanks!


The trouble with that is no one knows exactly what's real and fake, and it's up to the interpreter to decide what _they _think is real and fake. I agree that there's no evidence for widescale, coordinated election fraud, but please go away with this totalitarian nonsense. Censorship solves nothing and just creates more problems.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lilith Valentine said:


> It's ironic that you refer to Joe as "Creepy" but ignore the creepy behavior of Trump. Worth stressing they are both creeps and quite honestly neither of them deserves respect for their creepy behavior and history.


This makes me laugh. Biden is a bit of a weirdo, but Trump has had, how many, tens of sexual assault accusations? What's the comparison?


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'll support the devil himself if he pushes the country in a direction that enables its citizenry to be more prosperous.



It's mostly a zero sum game, a few people did better under Trump at the cost of others & you threw away your morals.

He is too unstable to be effective.



Cryoraptor said:


> The trouble with that is no one knows exactly what's real and fake, and it's up to the interpreter to decide what _they _think is real and fake. I agree that there's no evidence for widescale, coordinated election fraud, but please go away with this totalitarian nonsense. Censorship solves nothing and just creates more problems.



If there is no evidence for widescale coordinated election fraud, then we know that it's fake to claim that there was widescale coordinated election fraud.

People might want that to be the explanation for why Trump lost, but it's wishful thinking because reality burns.

How do we stop people having these delusions?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> It's mostly a zero sum game, a few people did better under Trump at the cost of others & you threw away your morals.
> 
> He is too unstable to be effective.


I think Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem. Hillary and the Democrats were so bad that America elected Trump, _TRUMP_, to be president, and don't get me wrong, he was the right choice in 2016, but it doesn't take a genius to see that he's a mentally unstable retard. American politics became so bad that Trump was the better choice in 2016, and Biden isn't much better. I feel like we'll be having the same convo in 4 years time where we're agreeing that he was the right choice in 2020, but was realistically a demented old retard who fixed nothing. It's too early to tell yet, but my gut says that's the convo we'll be having in 4 years.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> This is very bothersome to me... Why would Foxi4 support shamzie who was just suspended for "TROLLING" clearly visible for everyone to see, and yet we can't get another mod to moderate this... Wth has gbatemp become! This is egregious!
> 
> This is a perfect reflection of the police all around the US picking and choosing who they will side with, when they are supposed to just "side" with the law... The oath that they all took when they started their employment!
> 
> ...



Did you really say im being favoured after literally coming back from a suspension and then try and get me suspended again for saying the election was rigged LOL you're so pathetic it hurts. Anyway here's an update. It's January 13th and the election was rigged. Try and not send me to the gulag.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I think Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem. Hillary and the Democrats were so bad that America elected Trump, _TRUMP_, to be president, and don't get me wrong, he was the right choice in 2016, but it doesn't take a genius to see that he's a mentally unstable retard. American politics became so bad that Trump was the better choice in 2016, and Biden isn't much better. I feel like we'll be having the same convo in 4 years time where we're agreeing that he was the right choice in 2020, but was realistically a demented old retard who fixed nothing. It's too early to tell yet, but my gut says that's the convo we'll be having in 4 years.


I'm not sure how you can look at the last four years and say Trump was the "right choice" in 2016.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> If there is no evidence for widescale coordinated election fraud, then we know that it's fake to claim that there was widescale coordinated election fraud.
> 
> You might want that to be the explanation for why Trump lost, but it's wishful thinking because reality burns.


It's incorrect and ignorant to suggest election fraud, but it shouldn't be against the law to express such view. If you allow cretins to express their idiotic beliefs, everyone can see that they are cretins, but if you censor them, you make it look like they have a point and you're trying to stop 'da trewth' from coming out. Don't play into their hands.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I think Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem. Hillary and the Democrats were so bad that America elected Trump, _TRUMP_, to be president, and don't get me wrong, he was the right choice in 2016, but it doesn't take a genius to see that he's a mentally unstable retard.



Was Hilary bad, or did Trump manipulate people into thinking Hilary was bad.

Nearly half the country cannot see that he's mentally unstable now, the numbers weren't much different in 2016.

He probably wasn't the right choice in 2016.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I'm not sure how you can look at the last four years and say Trump was the "right choice" in 2016.


Because it would have been even worse with Hillary. That's my point; American politics are so bad that America decided to vote for Trump.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> It's incorrect and ignorant to suggest election fraud, but it shouldn't be against the law to express such view. If you allow cretins to express their idiotic beliefs, everyone can see that they are cretins, but if you censor them, you make it look like they have a point and you're trying to stop 'da trewth' from coming out. Don't play into their hands.



But when the cretins overrun the thread, like they overrun the capitol then what do you do?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> Was Hilary bad, or did Trump manipulate people into thinking Hilary was bad.
> 
> Nearly half the country cannot see that he's mentally unstable now, the numbers weren't much different in 2016.
> 
> He probably wasn't the right choice in 2016.


No, they were both bad.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Because it would have been even worse with Hillary.



Or do you think that because Trump told you that it would be worse with Hilary.

She is harder working than Trump & less corrupt than Trump


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I think Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem. Hillary and the Democrats were so bad that America elected Trump, _TRUMP_, to be president, and don't get me wrong, he was the right choice in 2016, but it doesn't take a genius to see that he's a mentally unstable retard. American politics became so bad that Trump was the better choice in 2016, and Biden isn't much better. I feel like we'll be having the same convo in 4 years time where we're agreeing that he was the right choice in 2020, but was realistically a demented old retard who fixed nothing. It's too early to tell yet, but my gut says that's the convo we'll be having in 4 years.


I sincerely hope that the administration will be toothless and refrains from "fixing" anything that works, but I have a feeling that won't be the case given the fact that they'll be in control of both houses and the White House. With some luck, at least Biden will keep flubbing to keep us entertained while it all goes down.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> But when the cretins overrun the thread, like they overrun the capitol then what do you do?


If they aren't breaking rules, let them speak. If they begin trolling and harassing people, it's time to swing the ban hammer.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Because it would have been even worse with Hillary. That's my point; American politics are so bad that America decided to vote for Trump.


There is nothing to suggest it would have been "even worse" with Secretary Clinton.


----------



## smf (Jan 13, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I sincerely hope that the administration will be toothless and refrains from "fixing" anything that works,



After four years of Trump the US doesn't have anything that works.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

smf said:


> Or do you think that because Trump told you that it would be worse with Hilary.
> 
> She is harder working than Trump & less corrupt than Trump


No, I think that because she would be worse than Trump.

'less corrupt than Trump' Riiiiiiight...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> There is nothing to suggest it would have been "even worse" with Secretary Clinton.


Except there is. The no fly zone in Syria comes to mind.

Look, I'm not defending Trump. I agree that he's insane. But he was a slightly shinier turd than Hillary.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Foxi4 said:


> I sincerely hope that the administration will be toothless and refrains from "fixing" anything that works, but I have a feeling that won't be the case given the fact that they'll be in control of both houses and the White House. With some luck, at least Biden will keep flubbing to keep us entertained while it all goes down.


I think it will mostly be an Obama 3rd term where he's selling a lot but ends up getting nothing done. For example, promises to end the divide and bring the country together. I seriously doubt he's going to accomplish that.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Did you really say im being favoured after literally coming back from a suspension and then try and get me suspended again for saying the election was rigged LOL you're so pathetic it hurts. Anyway here's an update. It's January 13th and the election was rigged. Try and not send me to the gulag.


ok so
you were vaguely kinda in the right since you didn't get suspended for spouting misinformation, you got suspended for being an asshole about it
and then you shot yourself in the foot by *being an asshole about it again in the same ways as before*



Foxi4 said:


> There were also actual machine bots, usually with silly names like "Science Reality" who posted nothing about science on their actual feeds and existed solely to call the President "drumpf" or repost unfunny memes. It was a bit of a shit show if you actually tried to read what was being said. Sadly I won't be able to demonstrate as the feed is no longer available. In any case, "hating Trump" was a presumably profitable enterprise.


In their defense, there's a lot of angles from which to hate him.
Also, only tangentially related but fun fact: the reason Drumpf is used as kind of an insulting nick-meme towards him is because it would have been his last name if one of his ancestors didn't change it to Trump... and it sounds so much dumber and less grand/powerful that it fits him a lot better.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> ok so
> you were vaguely kinda in the right since you didn't get suspended for spouting misinformation, you got suspended for being an asshole about it
> and then you shot yourself in the foot by *being an asshole about it again in the same ways as before*



In your opinion, I'm sure in somebody else's opinion I wasn't being an asshole. That's how the world works. I didn't break any rules at anytime. I've seen you say some horrible things, make accusations left and right with no repercussions and you don't see me clambering to have anybody suspended because IM AN ADULT and can handle differing opinions without defaulting too trying to have somebody removed. Im also 99% of the time respectful and try and make honest points or suggestions. Because you fundamentally disagree you just resort too baselessly calling me a troll or homophobic or something in that vain when im neither. People can disagree.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> the election was rigged


[Citation needed]


----------



## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> No, I think that because she would be worse than Trump.
> 
> 'less corrupt than Trump' Riiiiiiight...
> 
> ...


How anti-climactic. Not only did Trump later call for the same no-fly zones, but Clinton's call for the no-fly zones doesn't come at all close to suggesting she would have been worse than Trump. Remember, we are talking about a man who illegally separated children from their parents at the border and locked them in cages (some of them died, and many of them still haven't been returned), utterly botched the federal response to the pandemic that has caused nearly 400,000 Americans to die, and instigated an armed insurrection against the Capitol and the results of a fair a secure election. Gosh though, that Clinton and her proposed no-fly zone. Grow up.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> [Citation needed]



There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> In your opinion, I'm sure in somebody else's opinion I wasn't being an asshole. That's how the world works. I didn't break any rules at anytime. I've seen you say some horrible things, make accusations left and right with no repercussions and you don't see me clambering to have anybody suspended because IM AN ADULT and can handle differing opinions without defaulting too trying to have somebody removed. Im also 99% of the time respectful and try and make honest points or suggestions. Because you fundamentally disagree you just resort too baselessly calling me a troll or homophobic or something in that vain when im neither. People can disagree.





shamzie said:


> LOL you're so pathetic it hurts. Anyway here's an update. It's January 13th and the election was rigged. Try and not send me to the gulag.


_h m m 
_


shamzie said:


> There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.


There's two types of opinions. The passive ones that don't claim things as facts (like a favorite color or a taste in fashion) and the active ones that assert themselves as true (like this bullcrap).
The passive ones need no citation, since they're not claiming anything objective.
The active ones are, and thus need citation.
Your 'opinion' of the election results is one you're peddling as fact.
Citation needed.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> _h m m _



I woke up too nearly a page of somebody crying and trying to have me removed AGAIN because of my opinion and you expect me too just ignore it? My opinion isn't against the rules.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.


So you have nothing to support your opinion? LOL there's no discussion to have then.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.


"It's my opinion" is usually the last ditch effort of someone who is clearly wrong. You have a right to your opinion, however wrong it is, but you don't have a right to your own facts.

Nobody really cares what unsubstantiated opinion you want to shout into the wind. Come back when you can do better.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Lacius said:


> "It's my opinion" is usually the last ditch effort of someone who is clearly wrong. You have a right to your opinion, however wrong it is, but you don't have a right to your own facts.


"The election was rigged because I say so"


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I woke up too nearly a page of somebody crying and trying to have me removed AGAIN because of my opinion and you expect me too just ignore it? My opinion isn't against the rules.


no it's just that that portion is practically the epitome of trolling
I agree with you on most of these points- you do deserve another chance since your opinion, no matter how active or fact-self-claiming, does have the right to be stated
but you've already started doing the same kind of trolling you got suspended for

if I had mod power and used it to crack down on your 'opinion', a falsity to which you are still entitled (with some limits- you can't just go around pushing it as fact without providing proof and then just back away and call it an opinion), I'd be bordering on the very Orwellian dictators that Trump's base have accused us of being after measures made to mitigate hate speech.
trolling and inflammatory remarks, however, have no such defenses.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Lacius said:


> How anti-climactic. Not only did Trump later call for the same no-fly zones, but Clinton's call for the no-fly zones doesn't come at all close to suggesting she would have been worse than Trump. Remember, we are talking about a man who illegally separated children from their parents at the border and locked them in cages (some of them died, and many of them still haven't been returned), utterly botched the federal response to the pandemic that has caused nearly 400,000 Americans to die, and instigated an armed insurrection against the Capitol and the results of a fair a secure election. Gosh though, that Clinton and her proposed no-fly zone. Grow up.


I'll concede defeat on that one. Although, at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen, so I still maintain that at the time, Trump was slightly better. But they were both terrible options from day 1.

Also, I think it's a touch unfair to say the Trump administration caused 400k Americans to die. I won't go into COVID here, but hundreds of thousands of Americans were going to die regardless. It's a virus; a nanoorganism that, unless you believe it's artificial, nobody made and is nobody's fault. Although China could have done a better job at controlling it before it spread to other countries. But let's not play the blame game, as I said, it's a nanoorganism that most likely no one had control over evolving.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I think Trump is a symptom of a bigger problem. Hillary and the Democrats were so bad that America elected Trump, _TRUMP_, to be president, and don't get me wrong, he was the right choice in 2016, but it doesn't take a genius to see that he's a mentally unstable retard. American politics became so bad that Trump was the better choice in 2016, and Biden isn't much better. I feel like we'll be having the same convo in 4 years time where we're agreeing that he was the right choice in 2020, but was realistically a demented old retard who fixed nothing. It's too early to tell yet, but my gut says that's the convo we'll be having in 4 years.


I agree that Trump is part of a bigger problem (and contributed to make it even bigger as seen recently) but i personally disagree with him being the right choice in the end. The damage he has done will take multiple presidents to undo if another extremist Trump-like leader doesn't come along that is.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> The damage he has done will take multiple presidents to undo


Most likely, if they even want to fix the issues he's caused.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'll concede defeat on that one. Although, at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen, so I still maintain that at the time, Trump was slightly better. But they were both terrible options from day 1.
> 
> Also, I think it's a touch unfair to say the Trump administration caused 400k Americans to die. I won't go into COVID here, but hundreds of thousands of Americans were going to die regardless. It's a virus; a nanoorganism that, unless you believe it's artificial, nobody made and is nobody's fault. Although China could have done a better job at controlling it before it spread to other countries. But let's not play the blame game, as I said, it's a nanoorganism that most likely no one had control over evolving.


Unfortunately, he catastrophically mishandled the pandemic in question.
He politicized it, first acting as if it was a hoax then admitting to it but refusing to act safely (it took him months upon months to wear a fucking mask), which ultimately resulted in droves of Trumpers exposing themselves and others to it for reasons they likely wouldn't have if he had responded remotely sanely to it.


----------



## lokomelo (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> There's no citation needed, I'm not running for President or trying to overthrow Joe Biden. It's my opinion, If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show.


What you said kinda works for any lie you wish to tell, one absurd example could be: _In my opinion the Playstation 5 was a war computer developed by the pope on the year of 1500, and I have no proof, because "I'm not running for President" and "If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show"._

Anyway, I dont know the exact reasons you were banned for, but if it was only for believing in fake news, I think the punishment was a bit harsh.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Unfortunately, he catastrophically mishandled the pandemic in question.
> He politicized it, first acting as if it was a hoax then admitting to it but refusing to act safely (it took him months upon months to wear a fucking mask), which ultimately resulted in droves of Trumpers exposing themselves and others to it for reasons they likely wouldn't have if he had responded remotely sanely to it.


Oh yeah, he handled it terribly. But saying he and the government are solely to blame for the loss of life is a bit extreme.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> What you said kinda works for any lie you wish to tell, one absurd example could be: _In my opinion the Playstation 5 was a war computer developed by the pope on the year of 1500, and I have no proof, because "I'm not running for President" and "If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show"._
> 
> Anyway, I dont know the exact reasons you were banned for, but if it was only for believing in fake news, I think the punishment was a bit harsh.


no, it was moreso for trolling and inflammatory remarks iirc


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## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Although, at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen


People were metaphorically shouting from the mountaintops about the consequences of a Trump presidency.

We knew about Trump's racist and anti-immigrant rhetoric, and people were told what the likely consequences would be.
We knew about Trump effectively ending the pandemic response team long before COVID-19 hit, and people were told what the possible consequences would be.
We knew that Trump said and did things like a despot-wannabe, we knew Trump was already calling the 2016 election a fraud if he lost, and he suggested that people who embrace the Second Amendment were the only ones who could take the country back from the election fraud if Clinton won.
We knew Trump was calling the 2020 election a fraud long before the election took place, and people were told what the consequences would likely be.
Don't act like the consequences of a Trump presidency were unknown. You were told. Everyone was told. What you're doing is gaslighting.



Cryoraptor said:


> so I still maintain that at the time, Trump was slightly better. But they were both terrible options from day 1.


There was no evidence that Clinton was anywhere as bad as Trump. Sure, Clinton wasn't my first choice (nor my second, nor my third), and there are plenty of criticisms of Clinton to go around (and I'd probably agree with most of them), but there was ample evidence that she would have been a decent president, and there was no evidence she would have been nearly as bad as Trump.



Cryoraptor said:


> Also, I think it's a touch unfair to say the Trump administration caused 400k Americans to die. I won't go into COVID here, but hundreds of thousands of Americans were going to die regardless. It's a virus; a nanoorganism that, unless you believe it's artificial, nobody made and is nobody's fault. Although China could have done a better job at controlling it before it spread to other countries. But let's not play the blame game, as I said, it's a nanoorganism that most likely no one had control over evolving.


You are right that it would be unfair to say 100% of the American COVID-19 deaths are Trump's fault. It is fair to say, however, that many of those death's are Trump's fault. From a post I made back in October:

Trump's initial failures include, but aren't limited to:

Effectively ending the pandemic response team a year or two before the pandemic hit
Downplaying risks by saying publicly that COVID-19 was not a big deal and nobody should be worried <-- We know that this alone contributed and continues to contribute to increased infection rates
The lack of a federal response to address a lack of testing
The lack of a federal response to address a lack of PPE
A lack of a federal response to address social distancing
Encouraging states and municipalities to reopen too quickly
Encouraging states and municipalities not to shutdown at all
A failure to address needed financial stimulus aside from the initial round (January update: We got a second round of $600. Whoa buddy, don't spend it all in one place).
Continuing to this day to peddle misinformation about masks, suggesting they cause one to be more likely to catch COVID-19
Suggesting disinfectant in the lungs can be an effective treatment against COVID-19
Continuing to this day to hold super spreader rallies with no social distancing and few masks, inside and outside
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_communication_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._federal_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump#COVID-19_pandemic

No, we wouldn't have had zero COVID-19 deaths if Clinton had been elected president. Based on other countries with comparable population densities who enacted policies that Clinton was advocating from the sidelines, the COVID-19 deaths in the United States could have been hundreds of thousands less than what it was.


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## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> What you said kinda works for any lie you wish to tell, one absurd example could be: _In my opinion the Playstation 5 was a war computer developed by the pope on the year of 1500, and I have no proof, because "I'm not running for President" and "If I or anybody else had a substantial amount of proof It would be on show"._
> 
> Anyway, I dont know the exact reasons you were banned for, but if it was only for believing in fake news, I think the punishment was a bit harsh.



It was probably a number of things, I'll be the first too admit I've pushed the limit's at times. I know I haven't broken any rules but It's fine, I'm not a moron I understand why. 

Anyway you're correct It does work for any lie, It's worked for thousands of years with religion, It's worked for the past 4 years with Russia, I'm sure it would've continued for another 4 If Trump had won despite there being zero evidence Russia interferred. In fact the only proof of any interference came in the Brexit referendum when the then _*sitting president of the United States told another nation what to vote for and if they didn't, there would be consequences. *_ This is obviously easily forgotten on America's side of the aisle though as they screamed about Russia full force for 4 years. It's the hypocrisy that get's me honestly. There's been 1000's of unsubstantiated claims about Trump in the last 4 years that because It's Trump they get a pass because all the big tech hate him.

Also there was lots of claims about election rigging with proof. That might not be enough to have changed the outcome but It does exist and therefore It's not out of the realms of possibility for it to be rigged entirely.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> My opinion isn't against the rules.


I could have the opinion that the Earth is flat, and that wouldn't be against the rules, but just because my opinion isn't against the rules doesn't mean I'm not a complete idiot.

The difference, of course, is the baseless opinion the Earth is flat is solely idiotic, while the baseless opinion that the election was fraudulent is the pretense for an insurrection against the United States.


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## lokomelo (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> It was probably a number of things, I'll be the first too admit I've pushed the limit's at times. I know I haven't broken any rules but It's fine, I'm not a moron I understand why.
> 
> Anyway you're correct It does work for any lie, It's worked for thousands of years with religion, It's worked for the past 4 years with Russia, I'm sure it would've continued for another 4 If Trump had won despite there being zero evidence Russia interferred. In fact the only proof of any interference came in the Brexit referendum when the then _*sitting president of the United States told another nation what to vote for and if they didn't, there would be consequences. *_ This is obviously easily forgotten on America's side of the aisle though as they screamed about Russia full force for 4 years. It's the hypocrisy that get's me honestly. There's been 1000's of unsubstantiated claims about Trump in the last 4 years that because It's Trump they get a pass because all the big tech hate him.
> 
> Also there was lots of claims about election rigging with proof. That might not be enough to have changed the outcome but It does exist and therefore It's not out of the realms of possibility for it to be rigged entirely.



I am very far away from USA, and I dont read nothing too much in depth about their internal stuff, but the information that I got here is that Trump was not punished at all on that Russia case, so I see no reason to bring this up. If he was condemned, then It would be a valid point.


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## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> I am very far away from USA, and I dont read nothing too much in depth about their internal stuff, but the information that I got here is that Trump was not punished at all on that Russia case, so I see no reason to bring this up. If he was condemned, then It would be a valid point.



I brought it up because you talked about baseless lies with no evidence. That was one that was perpetrated in the media for 4 years.


Lacius said:


> I could have the opinion that the Earth is flat, and that wouldn't be against the rules, but just because my opinion isn't against the rules doesn't mean I'm not a complete idiot.
> 
> The difference, of course, is the baseless opinion the Earth is flat is solely idiotic, while the baseless opinion that the election was fraudulent is the pretense for an insurrection against the United States.



I'm sure there's some things I've missed but I tend to go directly to the source and what I saw was Trump asking people not too riot and to leave, he said it on video. Is there a video of him asking people to storm the capitol? I'd also like to point out the black panthers stormed the capitol in 1967 with guns, this isn't unheard of.


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> what I saw was Trump asking people not too riot and to leave, he said it on video. Is there a video of him asking people to storm the capitol?


I mean, he would have been genuinely breaking the law and inciting violence at that point, so of course he's not going to literally call for a political crusade against the establishment. He did however call them 'very special people', so take that how you will.



shamzie said:


> I'd also like to point out the black panthers stormed the capitol in 1967 with guns, this isn't unheard of.


Shameless whatabouttery.


----------



## Rj.MoG (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Oh yeah, he handled it terribly. But saying he and the government are solely to blame for the loss of life is a bit extreme.


The dude just didn't give a fuck about it for months until suddenly claiming he had the best response, an amazing response to the kung flu. And the man has vomited hate and divisive dialogue for the past decade. Yet any one of his supporters has the audacity to claim "no one saw this coming" when his supporters are the ones waving the flags of previous wannabe insurrectionists in addition to waving their own flag of sovereignty. It's hard to reach out to the other side or take them seriously at all when almost all of them are hateful pieces of shit. People like Pelosi or Schumer aren't exactly great. But at least they aren't functionally retarded toddler's that want to burn down the house.

EDIT: People like this. What proof? What anything? All you idiots do is scream about BIG TECH when decades have gone by with republicans pushing this ridiculous capitalist agenda. You can't scream about it when it finally bites you. And the whole MSM shit is stupid too. Sinclair Media owns the vast majority of networks and they are very right leaning. Just because there's a lot of ridiculously negative things Trump does doesn't mean they're out to get him. He's just a piece of shit


shamzie said:


> It was probably a number of things, I'll be the first too admit I've pushed the limit's at times. I know I haven't broken any rules but It's fine, I'm not a moron I understand why.
> 
> Anyway you're correct It does work for any lie, It's worked for thousands of years with religion, It's worked for the past 4 years with Russia, I'm sure it would've continued for another 4 If Trump had won despite there being zero evidence Russia interferred. In fact the only proof of any interference came in the Brexit referendum when the then _*sitting president of the United States told another nation what to vote for and if they didn't, there would be consequences. *_ This is obviously easily forgotten on America's side of the aisle though as they screamed about Russia full force for 4 years. It's the hypocrisy that get's me honestly. There's been 1000's of unsubstantiated claims about Trump in the last 4 years that because It's Trump they get a pass because all the big tech hate him.
> 
> Also there was lots of claims about election rigging with proof. That might not be enough to have changed the outcome but It does exist and therefore It's not out of the realms of possibility for it to be rigged entirely.


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## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Is there a video of him asking people to storm the capitol?


Yep.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/annotated-trump-speech-jan-6-capitol/


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Lacius said:


> People were metaphorically shouting from the mountaintops about the consequences of a Trump presidency.
> 
> We knew about Trump's racist and anti-immigrant rhetoric, and people were told what the likely consequences would be.
> We knew about Trump effectively ending the pandemic response team long before COVID-19 hit, and people were told what the possible consequences would be.
> ...


I can't argue with any of that. Since I'm not from America I'm not fully clued up about American politics, so I can only go off of what I know (NOT just Trumpaganda). I will accept that I'm wrong on this one, although I would never have disputed the poor handling of the pandemic regardless, or that Trump's administration is a disaster.

Although I dispute the claim that I'm gaslighting. That makes little sense.


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## Lacius (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I can't argue with any of that. Since I'm not from America I'm not fully clued up about American politics, so I can only go off of what I know (NOT just Trumpaganda). I will accept that I'm wrong on this one, although I would never have disputed the poor handling of the pandemic regardless, or that Trump's administration is a disaster.
> 
> Although I dispute the claim that I'm gaslighting. That makes little sense.


My point was that it was either ignorance or gaslighting to say "at the time nobody really knew that these things would happen." People were warned. Hell, Hillary Clinton was one of the people doing the warning.


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## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

the only Defence that House Republicans are saying against Impeachment is  "why rush this?" 
IDK maybe a Seditious Coup?


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## notimp (Jan 13, 2021)

Rj.MoG said:


> People like this. What proof? What anything? All you idiots do is scream about BIG TECH when decades have gone by with republicans pushing this ridiculous capitalist agenda.


So when big tech basically helmed the gentrification of California, and parts of Seattle singlehandedly ( https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/...at-the-housing-crisis-advocates-are-skeptical ), and then had to flee to Texas and Virginia so young hopefuls would still find anything aside from gated communities, and when they produced the system (sharing hate scales above other emotions, and above all other content) - we shouldnt recognize that, because they are with the good guys now.

Currently censoring speech with an immanent danger argument.

Look at Apple being with the good guys now:
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021...emic-racism-advance-racial-equity-nationwide/

100 Million dollar pledge to move racial minorities into UI design and marketing. Some coders also created.



Let me give you an insight into how rotten this "with the good guys" argument has become as of now. An appologist media studies professor in my parts of the world just claimed, that Twitters decision to ban Trump was rectified, because "they finally understood, that political speech of that office had to be filtered through the channels that are able to handle it, namely media".

I expect the Biden twitter account to be banned soon then?

As well as all congress members outreach and fund raising efforts?

This has reached double morale standards to the point where now even experts are not caring to frame this from a purely partisan position. Stay with the good guys, and you can do no wrong. Go with the bad guys, and we might use 'immanent danger' to ban 70k folks over night. Recourse? Of course none.

'Responsible social behavior'? Only implied, and only after democracy was almost toppled.

But now, that they banned the people promoting a certain hashtag - everyone is so happy, that they have to read less of it - that none of it matters.

When they promoted 'move fast and break things' it somehow was not the democratic process they broke? Because harsh actions, and a few millions in donations still work well enough?

Also active investing is broke, risk capital is more shy than in past decades - because their AI driven tools tell them to be, the average stock holding period has come down to 11 seconds and the solution is - well we dont actually know what 50% of the jobs in five to ten years will be - probably something with 'service' - and app, but equality is so important, we want to give everyone the same chance. And at the same time - probably UBI 'still will be needed' unsure...

So better don't give US people healthcare yet! They still need the motivation.

edit: Seattle is gaining tech workers again. So yay social responsibility - I guess... 
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/tech/elon-musk-austin-tech-companies
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/seatt...l-new-tech-talent-ranking-50-leading-markets/


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## Doran754 (Jan 13, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Yep.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/annotated-trump-speech-jan-6-capitol/



I'm not getting any sound on this video, is it because I clicked free when i went on the website? I'll try and find his speech from the 6th of Jan on youtube. If he specifically tells people to go and storm the capitol then that's pretty damning. 71minutes is a lot of footage to sift through. 

edit: No sound at the start, skipped forward sound is fine.


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## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I'm not getting any sound on this video, is it because I clicked free when i went on the website? I'll try and find his speech from the 6th of Jan on youtube. If he specifically tells people to go and storm the capitol then that's pretty damning. 71minutes is a lot of footage to sift through.
> 
> edit: No sound at the start, skipped forward sound is fine.


Just read through that whole speech (or at least a large chunk of it- it gets boring reading through the same inflammatory rhetoric repeated over and over in an hour-plus-long speech). He doesn't technically use that wording, but between making statements about how he knows his supporters are going to 'peacefully protest' (peaceful, my ass) there on the 6th, constantly claiming that they will not accept Biden's win and claiming that he and his base will fight for what they believe in, he spells it out in parts.
It's still pretty damning, considering it involves about as much subtlety as someone dunking your face into a vanilla cream pie so that they can't be specifically accused of throwing the pie at you.


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## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

so the House Republicans just give up their time to debate against Impeachment.  For people not familiar with American politics. Politicians NEVER refuse a chance to spoke and get recognized...
That signifies that Most Republicans don't even want to be seen as opposing the Impeachment


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

djpannda said:


> so the House Republicans just give up their time to debate against Impeachment.  For people not familiar with American politics. Politicians NEVER refuse a chance to spoke and get recognized...
> That signifies that Most Republicans don't even want to be seen as opposing the Impeachment


As much as people like to ridicule politicians, one thing they aren't is stupid. Stupid people aren't able to get people to vote for them. As it stands, regardless of whether you agree with his politics or not, it would take a complete idiot to politically support Trump at this stage. He's acted like a toddler on Twitter, made a complete mess of America's politics and is now trying to undermine democracy by stirring up his die hard fans to commit acts of terrorism. If you support that, you are above all an idiot. Politicians know that, so of course they aren't going to speak against the impeachment. Trump will either disgracefully leave on the 20th or get dragged out by the police. He's lost this one.


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## Rj.MoG (Jan 13, 2021)

notimp said:


> So when big tech basically helmed the gentrification of California, and parts of Seattle singlehandedly ( https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/...at-the-housing-crisis-advocates-are-skeptical ), and then had to flee to Texas and Virginia so young hopefuls would still find anything aside from gated communities, and when they produced the system (sharing hate scales above other emotions, and above all other content) - we shouldnt recognize that, because they are with the good guys now.
> 
> Currently censoring speech with an immanent danger argument.
> 
> ...


When did I ever say about anyone being the good guys? Apple isn’t good. Neither is google. I’m just pointing out that when the US was told “Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.” They chose capitalism. What were witnessing now is our twilight hours as a super power. There’s no individual I agree with. The absurd tribal mentality “us vs them” or football attitude of win/lose is what’s gotten us here. The mentality of the American people is fundamentally broken left and right. Big tech is only out for themselves and money. President Trump deserves to be arrested for his crimes. And there is no justice in the world. Me disagreeing with one side and pointing out flaws in an argument doesn’t mean I like the other side. Please don’t think I do. My hate runs strong for nearly everyone in politics today. Google and Amazon need to be broken up, reigned in and they need to pay their back taxes. Will they? No. But neither will ATT, Verizon, Nestle, Monsanto, Pilgrim, Sinclair, Viacom or any other corporation. Many of them have committed literal war crimes and Congress just shrugs. The storming of the capital was just a culmination of their own inaction. I don’t approve it but I’m not going to lie and say I didn’t laugh at how scared several congressmen were.


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## notimp (Jan 13, 2021)

Rj.MoG said:


> When did I ever say


You hinting at big tech not following capitalist motives, I guess.

Just because of association and appearance.

And there goes the argument 'look at what they - in a very real sense - are responsible for', just because of association and appearance. They are with the good guys now. They do tip!

Hey, Uber even has a tipping option in app now - I hear! So people show less guilt and use it more. Amazon has their charity initiatives, Apple will finance an entire wing of startup schools for black entrepreneurs. (And mostly designers and marketing people, to fill it up, so it doesnt look so empty. Until the businessmodels of the future arrive.)


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## Rj.MoG (Jan 13, 2021)

notimp said:


> You hinting at big tech not following capitalist motives, I guess.
> 
> Just because of association and appearance.


I accidentally pressed post. Please go and read my updated reply


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## notimp (Jan 13, 2021)

Rj.MoG said:


> I accidentally pressed post. Please go and read my updated reply


Didnt want to press you to do that.

Just interested in making sure, their responsibility doesnt fall by the wayside, now - that they have banned some extremists from their services.

Because thats the issue of claiming social responsibility vs actually living it. For some reason thats important to me.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> This makes me laugh. Biden is a bit of a weirdo, but Trump has had, how many, tens of sexual assault accusations? What's the comparison?


Creepy actions is where I draw the line. Both of them have done creepy things and that’s something both of them need to be criticized on. To ignore one’s actions in the favor of the other is a disrespect to their victims.


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Creepy actions is where I draw the line. Both of them have done creepy things and that’s something both of them need to be criticized on. To ignore one’s actions in the favor of the other is a disrespect to their victims.


I agree, I was more making the point of 'Trump supporters claim Biden is a creep/perv/pedo but look at how many sexual assault allegations Trump has received over the years'.


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## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I agree, I was more making the point of 'Trump supporters claim Biden is a creep/perv/pedo but look at how many sexual assault allegations Trump has received over the years'.


It's like the _tu quoque_ argument, except it actually works because there's evidence of Trump's actual sexual assault (including some rather disgusting comments like that infamous "grab 'em by the [censored]" line that make it clear he's not in any way ashamed of it) while Biden is just kind of a weird, out of touch sorta-unintentionally-creepy old man.


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## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

*New York City moves to end contracts with the Trump Organization*
..ouch... That Was a really important source of income and more importantly FAME for Trump...


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## chrisrlink (Jan 13, 2021)

even if trump doesn't get impeached once he's out hes a sitting duck for the NY DA regardless he won't run again cause once he's convicted of these crimes piling up it's game over for his career in politics

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

after some research it scares me to oposite is true what were the founding fathers thinking not allowing a criminal to be forbidden to run that makes no fucking sense


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## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> even if trump doesn't get impeached once he's out hes a sitting duck for the NY DA regardless he won't run again cause once he's convicted of these crimes piling up it's game over for his career in politics
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> after some research it scares me to oposite is true what were the founding fathers thinking not allowing a criminal to be forbidden to run that makes no fucking sense


Because the definition of "criminal" is a bit fuzzy.
However, someone that's pulled as much shit as Trump has shouldn't be able to run for ANY position of power. (Arguably, considering the stuff he did before taking office and even before his campaign, he should never have been allowed to run in 2016!)


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## chrisrlink (Jan 13, 2021)

also seems treason is the only crime that prevents a person able to vote or hold any office any level of government now i wonder if he pardons those terrorist from the capitol insurgence could he be charged with treason after leaving office? part two of the definition of treason is rendering aide (in this case a pardon) to a enemy of the union


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> he won't run again cause once he's convicted of these crimes piling up it's game over for his career in politics


I think his career in politics is done regardless. Losing a re-election is bad enough but with the way he handled it, that's a death sentence. After he's left the white house he'll do his best to disappear from the face of the Earth and will run as far from accountability for his actions as possible.


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## chrisrlink (Jan 13, 2021)

not if they nab him at 12pm on the 20th pretty sure NY DA is hurrying to charge him at 12pm and the feds are on notice to arrest him before he even steps out the front door of the WH pretty sure his fat ass can't run that fast he's no Sonic that's for damn sure


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## ghjfdtg (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I think his career in politics is done regardless. Losing a re-election is bad enough but with the way he handled it, that's a death sentence. After he's left the white house he'll do his best to disappear from the face of the Earth and will run as far from accountability for his actions as possible.


I doubt that. He already stated he is gonna build his own media. As much as i would like him nuked from earth we will have to deal with his shit for years to come.


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## Rj.MoG (Jan 13, 2021)

notimp said:


> Didnt want to press you to do that.
> 
> Just interested in making sure, their responsibility doesnt fall by the wayside, now - that they have banned some extremists from their services.
> 
> Because thats the issue of claiming social responsibility vs actually living it. For some reason thats important to me.


Oh you didn’t press me at all. I just finished updating my post and noticed you had responded. I think most people have much the same ethical code but few strongly about different ways of going about it. We all have civic duty but most do shirk their duties for personal responsibility. You should read about tribalism in politics. It’s depressingly sobering.


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> I doubt that. He already stated he is gonna build his own media. As much as i would like him nuked from earth we will have to deal with his shit for years to come.


I don't trust his word. With his name having lost all credibility and potential criminal charges on his head, not to mention how much shit his business is in, he'll run. What I think will happen however is he'll command his die hard fanbase to keep up with the trumpaganda, fake news and domestic terrorism with the hope of 'one day maybe I'll get my well-deserved second term and yada yada yada go smash some shit up for me'.


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## Deleted User (Jan 13, 2021)

At this stage, I'd like to point out that the path of least resistance has shown itself in the country.

Corporations are stopping their funding of campaigns related to those that seek to unravel the Democracy of the United States.
This has snowballed into Politicians, who have been lifelong supporters of said Corporations, to have a voice and unite in its denunciation.

Of course not every Political problem is of this magnitude, but this should be an indicator of how to effectively communicate between the political divide and what leverages need to be activated.

Hopefully in the upcoming years more people utilise this causality, both in the rhetoric for change and in uniting to push forward major changes for the greater good.


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## notimp (Jan 13, 2021)

Rj.MoG said:


> Oh you didn’t press me at all. I just finished updating my post and noticed you had responded. I think most people have much the same ethical code but few strongly about different ways of going about it. We all have civic duty but most do shirk their duties for personal responsibility. You should read about tribalism in politics. It’s depressingly sobering.


Already sobered. Yet it still is important that new political ideas can be discussed in the public sphere. Also I'll probably die an ideolog, just always for the aspects of the system that arent profitable.

Or more simply put - I somehow still believe in what a Chris Hedges is currently saying (if he isnt painting his personal dystopia), although I should just go with Chomsky and see him as what his role is system wise - namely to provide the most extreme opinion - we still allow to exist in debate, but never - ever act on.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 13, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> also seems treason is the only crime that prevents a person able to vote or hold any office any level of government now i wonder if he pardons those terrorist from the capitol insurgence could he be charged with treason after leaving office? part two of the definition of treason is rendering aide (in this case a pardon) to a enemy of the union


You mean like the BLM terrorists trying to remove law enforcement?


----------



## Xzi (Jan 13, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> You mean like the BLM terrorists trying to remove law enforcement?


"I'm UltraSUPRA, and I believe the definition of terrorism is the reallocation of government funds through legal means."


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Trump has just been IMPEACHED, twice... With 10 Republicans voting to impeach.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

I am so Proud of the GOP,  It's because of their "Winning" Strategy
1. Why rush?
2. BLM did it, too
3.Compare his speech to a Klan speech.
That  Strategy led Donald J TRUMP to be Impeached for a 2nd time (with Republican support)lolol


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

This is great! When does he leave?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "I'm UltraSUPRA, and I believe the definition of terrorism is the reallocation of government funds through legal means."


"I also accuse peaceful protestors of terrorism, even though basically every instance of their protests turning violent was due to instigation from either the police (which proves their point) or a counter-protester acting on nearly the exact same views I hold (which invalidates mine). And for good measure, I turn a blind eye to actual, dictionary-definition domestic terrorism in the form of an attempted coup, because it was attempted for a reason I agree with.
I'm UltraSUPRA, and thanks for coming to my TED Talk."


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 13, 2021)

Trump keeps making history, with all the losses he keeps getting.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> This is great! When does he leave?


This was just the House vote.  Next comes a trial in the Senate and a vote to convict.  If that passes, he's removed from office and can be criminally charged for the same thing (incitement of insurrection).  Carries with it a sentence of up to ten years in prison, which would undoubtedly be the rest of his life.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Trump keeps making history, with all the losses he keeps getting.


Between getting his ass handed to him in a loss so strong it turned Georgia blue (and by Obama's former VP, which will do _wonders_ for his Obama inferiority complex) and losing basically everything he possibly can (supporters, money, company backing, dozens of court cases, all his social media accounts and other outlets to spew his hatred and his last shred of sanity), this is rough as fuck for him and I am LOVING it!


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Trump = The biggest Loser!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Trump = The biggest Loser!


"I'm a big loser. A great one, really. I know more about losing than anyone. I've lost many times, bigger and bigger losses. I'm the best loser, best loser in the room, maybe ever. The biggest loser."


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 13, 2021)

So it's okay to impeach Trump over inciting violence when the actual violence was tame compared to the BLM Protests. It's great to see the Liberals selective minds at work as a riot where people ransack offices is far worse then you know, burning down black owned businesses and injuring/murdering hundreds.

The Liberals simply ignore the BLM riots and are acting like what the Conservatives did is some big crime. I just think Congress is butt hurt because they came to their front door and the whole lot of them ran and hid like little bitches.

Though, a moved podium, a few broken windows and some ransacked offices pale in  to arson, murder, looting, destruction of property, etc ... all of which took place hundreds of times last year by BLM and Antifa. Liberal hypocrite much?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

I wonder how Trump must be feeling right now... Oh yeah, he has no twitter.... Loser!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> I wonder how Trump must be feeling right now... Oh yeah, he has no twitter.... Loser!



Losers losing communication, huh... Wonder whatever happened to that guy with the burner account. Not a peep from him today, certainly not in the last few minutes- a pity. I miss him. Made me look real smart in comparison.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Can't wait to see Trump get convicted! What a Loser!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 13, 2021)

I've watched two short interviews of Biden before becoming president, and his immigration policies are basically: Undo what Trump did.

Regardless of what political side you align with, borders are necessary so that people from abroad can be verified if he/she is eligible to enter the country. In a sense, your country is your home, so a border is a door in itself and if that door is removed, then anyone could theoretically enter.

Also, I read that the amount of questions to have the U.S. citizenship increased from 10 to 20 and I agree with that. People should know the country's history if they want to join.

Lastly, let's see what Biden does so if he sticks to his word then you know he's a man of his word, for whatever that's worth.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it's okay to impeach Trump over inciting violence


..YES


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 13, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ..YES


Read the whole post.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

Boesy said:


> I've watched two short interviews of Biden before becoming president, and his immigration policies are basically: Undo what Trump did.
> 
> Regardless of what political side you align with, borders are necessary so that people from abroad can be verified if he/she is eligible to enter the country. In a sense, your country is your home, so a border is a door in itself and if that door is removed, then anyone could theoretically enter.
> 
> ...


>US citizenship questions, which basically amount to an anti-immigration barrier, doubling
excuse me what the fuck
also that moment when Trump's managed to ruin so much that Biden has to devote himself to fixing what Trump broke... when Trump's mission statement was just breaking everything Obama made



UltraSUPRA said:


> Read the whole quote.


1) Nah, the rest is a load of shit.
2) What post? Whose post? Checked the thing you're quoting, and it doesn't reference anything that I can see.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> 1) Nah, the rest is a load of shit.
> 2) What quote? Whose quote?


Right, I meant post.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Read the whole quote.


OH I just stopped Read after the first sentence because .......................you know everything after that was just.... Basura!

WHOOAA I going to Disney world... (if it wasn't for you MF anti vaccers, I really would have)


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it's okay to impeach Trump over inciting violence when the actual violence was tame compared to the BLM Protests. It's great to see the Liberals selective minds at work as a riot where people ransack offices is far worse then you know, burning down black owned businesses and injuring/murdering hundreds.
> 
> The Liberals simply ignore the BLM riots and are acting like what the Conservatives did is some big crime. I just think Congress is butt hurt because they came to their front door and the whole lot of them ran and hid like little bitches.
> 
> Though, a moved podium, a few broken windows and some ransacked offices pale in  to arson, murder, looting, destruction of property, etc ... all of which took place hundreds of times last year by BLM and Antifa. Liberal hypocrite much?



5 people (one a police officer) died... How was BLM worst? BLM was in the streets, places where people are allowed to be.... The riot in the capitol were on RESTRICTED property. Meaning they should/could have been shot just for being there.
Wake up and educate yourself


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm interested to see how democrats refute this video. If it has already been posted I ask if anyone could link me to that part of the discussion, it would be appreciated. 



I have been able to see one democrats react to it and they simply show TDS and simply said they dismiss it because they don't like it or believe it. 

I'd really like to see a counter video that specifically related to what is shown in the video, with a real rebuttal (data) than just more TDS,


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it's okay to impeach Trump over inciting violence when the actual violence was tame compared to the BLM Protests. It's great to see the Liberals selective minds at work as a riot where people ransack offices is far worse then you know, burning down black owned businesses and injuring/murdering hundreds.
> 
> The Liberals simply ignore the BLM riots and are acting like what the Conservatives did is some big crime. I just think Congress is butt hurt because they came to their front door and the whole lot of them ran and hid like little bitches.
> 
> Though, a moved podium, a few broken windows and some ransacked offices pale in  to arson, murder, looting, destruction of property, etc ... all of which took place hundreds of times last year by BLM and Antifa. Liberal hypocrite much?


I'm... On the fence with this one. I think both extremities are bad. I think conservative-supporters on this site exaggerate the amount of violence involved with BLM and Antifa and downplay Conservative violence, while the liberal-supporters exaggerate the violence of MAGA and other right wing groups while downplaying BLM and Antifa violence.

I think all sides of the argument in America have been manipulated and lied to by those in power to cause unrest and violence for the gain of said powerful figures, and, as this site proves, it's caused a massive divide with very few people in the middle like me, with both sides flinging shit at each other and spreading lies, fake news and rumours about each other. It's now very hard to establish what is true and what isn't due to the lack of consensus. I don't bother to criticise and rip into all sides at once though because I know I'm not going to convince anyone and meaningful discussion will begin to erode, and I know better than to make myself an enemy of several people at once.

If you couldn't tell, I'm very centrist.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> I'm interested to see how democrats refute this video. If it has already been posted I ask if anyone could link me to that part of the discussion, it would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_checks their community posts
checks their description_
"Free from political bias" my ass.
Pretty much every community post they've made is either about something like this, random shit about heho big tecc bad unga bunga or something else entirely that's also likely erroneous or exaggerated to clickbait proportions.
Try harder.


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> _checks their community posts
> checks their description_
> "Free from political bias" my ass.
> Pretty much every community post they've made is either about something like this, random shit about heho big tecc bad unga bunga or something else entirely that's also likely erroneous or exaggerated to clickbait proportions.
> Try harder.




Yeah this is a pretty good example of TDS. I was hoping for a more intelligent response.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> Yeah this is a pretty good example of TDS. I was hoping for a more intelligent response.


I don't even know what TDS _is_ (probably some shitty Trumper term for "doesn't accept everything I say without question" put under a snappy acronym to make its users seem smarter)_, _but I was hoping for 'evidence' that isn't blatantly biased by political leanings.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 13, 2021)

Why not ask Trump's lawyers? Over 60 court cases and yet none of this so called evidence was presented.


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I don't even know what TDS _is_ (probably some shitty Trumper term for "doesn't accept everything I say without question" put under a snappy acronym to make its users seem smarter)_, _but I was hoping for 'evidence' that isn't blatantly biased by political leanings.



Hummm. I guess my wait for a data based response continues.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

Oh, wait.
It's Trumper Denialism Syndrome.
The systematic tendency for Trump-supporters to deny any facts they dislike without question, and then claim Democratic hypocrisy when we actually try to fact-check their "reliable sources".



laudern said:


> Hummm. I guess my wait for a data based response continues.


You know, so does mine.
None of you have bothered to cite anything- the most you've given is a video and a couple lousy remarks that somehow do less than no harm to the opposing side.

Also...
>and simply said they dismiss it because they don't like it or believe it.
No, we actually provide reasons for why the sources are untrustworthy or otherwise invalid. You just shout "fake news" and then throw _*literal false information*_ at us as an excuse to play the _tu quoque_ fallacy card.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it's okay to impeach Trump over inciting violence when the actual violence was tame compared to the BLM Protests. It's great to see the Liberals selective minds at work as a riot where people ransack offices is far worse then you know, burning down black owned businesses and injuring/murdering hundreds.
> 
> The Liberals simply ignore the BLM riots and are acting like what the Conservatives did is some big crime. I just think Congress is butt hurt because they came to their front door and the whole lot of them ran and hid like little bitches.
> 
> Though, a moved podium, a few broken windows and some ransacked offices pale in  to arson, murder, looting, destruction of property, etc ... all of which took place hundreds of times last year by BLM and Antifa. Liberal hypocrite much?


5 people died and they tried to capture and hang mike pence


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 13, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> 5 people died and they tried to capture and hang mike pence


Plus let's not forget about the pipe bombs that were found.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> I'm interested to see how democrats refute this video. If it has already been posted I ask if anyone could link me to that part of the discussion, it would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*FALSE CLAIMS!! FAKE NEWS.... STOP THE SPREAD OF FALSE INFORMATION!! *

*Lengthy video makes false claims about 2020 election*

*Source: *https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9900544617

@laudern  PLEASE STOP SPREADING FALSE VIDEOS!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



laudern said:


> Yeah this is a pretty good example of TDS. I was hoping for a more intelligent response.


Your so full of shit! People like you are destroying America by spreading falsehoods! I'm calling you out because mods won't! Stop spreading lies!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



laudern said:


> Hummm. I guess my wait for a data based response continues.


You want data.... NONE OF TRUMPS COURT CASES WON, Trump LOST the election and if there was any TRUE information to prove otherwise it would have happened! Trump lost... He's a loser!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@laudern

Take a pill and digest the fact that TRUMP LOST! His cabinet members are quitting, his only lawyers left are those two idiots... Nobody wants to be around this loser because he's just so full of shit. If their was ANY proof of anything to change the presidency then we would hear about it and high placed people would help Trump bring it to light.
Your pretty much saying that every single judge is siding "illegally" with Democrats?! Your so delusional!


----------



## Xzi (Jan 13, 2021)

Every single piece of "evidence" presented by Republicans on the internet has already been rejected by the courts, and more specifically, rejected by *TRUMP-APPOINTED JUDGES*.  If you can't even get those loons on board with your bullshit, you sure as hell aren't going to convince any stable, level-headed individuals either.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *FALSE CLAIMS!! FAKE NEWS.... STOP THE SPREAD OF FALSE INFORMATION!! *
> 
> *Lengthy video makes false claims about 2020 election*
> 
> ...


To be honest, your post looks just as clickbaity and propagandist as those 'CRINGE LESBIAN SJW DESTROYED BY BEN SHAPIRO COMPILATION' videos.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Every single piece of "evidence" presented by Republicans on the internet has already been rejected by the courts, and more specifically, rejected by *TRUMP-APPOINTED JUDGES*.  If you can't even get those loons on board with your bullshit, you sure as hell aren't going to convince any stable, level-headed individuals either.


Of course, they all must be in on the conspiraceh to depose Trump as well... Even though Trump gave them their jobs.


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *FALSE CLAIMS!! FAKE NEWS.... STOP THE SPREAD OF FALSE INFORMATION!! *
> 
> *Lengthy video makes false claims about 2020 election*
> 
> ...




That's a great link, I really appreciate it and you tried really hard (much better than the other guy I was talking to), but the link actually has nothing to do with the video I posted.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

TRUMP got Impeached and PS4's firmware 7.55 exploit!!!!
WHAT A F$%King DAY. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!


----------



## rensenware (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> That's a great link, I really appreciate it and you tried really hard (much better than the other guy I was talking to), but the link actually has nothing to do with the video I posted.


. . . you gonna offer a rebuttal to the multiple people that've responded to you?


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> . . . you gonna offer a rebuttal to the multiple people that've responded to you?


You literally quoted my response to the only half rational response I have got lol. 

Trumps been impeached lol. Need 2/3 of the Senate to be successful. Dead on arrival again

Here is the best part. Eric Sawell is the House Manager in charge of Impeachment. The bloke who found to be sleeping with a Chinese spy for months a few weeks ago. That gets you a promotion in the Democrats.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> You literally quoted my response to the only half rational response I have got lol.
> 
> Trumps been impeached lol. Need 2/3 of the Senate to be successful. Dead on arrival again
> 
> Here is the best part. Eric Sawell is the House Manager in charge of Impeachment. The bloke who found to be sleeping with a Chinese spy for months a few weeks ago. That gets you a promotion in the Democrats.


You still haven't responded.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Sorry honey, unless you respond to everything in this image individually to my satisfaction, you're a brainwashed sheep that can't form an argument


----------



## Xzi (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> Trumps been impeached lol. Need 2/3 of the Senate to be successful. Dead on arrival again


I wouldn't be so sure.  McConnell is on board and nobody is whipping votes against conviction in the Senate.  If Republicans know what's good for the long-term health of the party, they'll kick Trump's fat ass to the curb.  If not...well then that's an even bigger win for Democrats.  They couldn't ask for a better reminder of what "worst case scenario" looks like to keep their voter turnout high.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> To be honest, your post looks just as clickbaity and propagandist as those 'CRINGE LESBIAN SJW DESTROYED BY BEN SHAPIRO COMPILATION' videos.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



*At Georgia House Hearing, Republicans' Baseless Claims Of Voting Fraud Persist*
*Source: https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/10...icans-baseless-claims-of-voting-fraud-persist*

*NTD is spreading such left wing falsehoods its crazy... Have a look at their web site... Story after story is either false or completely twisting the truth to appear as tho they are right... Once again FAKE NEWS!!*

***ADVISORY***
*false informations found on site below*

*https://mb.ntd.com/georgia.htm*



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



laudern said:


> You literally quoted my response to the only half rational response I have got lol.
> 
> Trumps been impeached lol. Need 2/3 of the Senate to be successful. Dead on arrival again
> 
> Here is the best part. Eric Sawell is the House Manager in charge of Impeachment. The bloke who found to be sleeping with a Chinese spy for months a few weeks ago. That gets you a promotion in the Democrats.



Your so wrong, once again. Democrats only needed MAJORITY to impeach! You must be confused with 25th amendment... That's what needed 2/3 votes. Loser, Trump is a loser!

*The chamber needs a simple majority of those voting, or 217 votes, to impeach Trump.*
*
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...needs-impeach-president-trump/?outputType=amp*


----------



## rensenware (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *At Georgia House Hearing, Republicans' Baseless Claims Of Voting Fraud Persist*
> *Source: https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/10...icans-baseless-claims-of-voting-fraud-persist*
> 
> *NTD is spreading such left wing falsehoods its crazy... Have a look at their web site... Story after story is either false or completely twisting the truth to appear as tho they are right... Once again FAKE NEWS!!*
> ...


No. There needs to be a two thirds majority vote in the senate to convict.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> No. There needs to be a two thirds majority vote in the senate to convict.


Yes 2/3 vote in the senate to convict.

Don't forget, Democrats will control the senate.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Your so wrong, once again. Democrats only needed MAJORITY to impeach! You must be confused with 25th amendment... That's what needed 2/3 votes. Loser, Trump is a loser!



Simple majority in the House to impeach. (check)
Subsequent 2/3 vote in the Senate is needed to convict. (McConnell and other GOP senators have expressed possible willingness on a vote to convict, making the 2/3 vote a legitimate possibility)

25th amendment wise, what happened in the House was basically pass a resolution that shows the House wants to push Pence to invoke the 25th, though that decision still lies with him, and also requires simple majority of the Cabinet. This is not likely to happen.

Edit - so yes, Trump has been impeached. Twice. First president in history to hold that honor. Impeached doesn't mean all too much if there's no conviction in the Senate though.


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *At Georgia House Hearing, Republicans' Baseless Claims Of Voting Fraud Persist*
> *Source: https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/10...icans-baseless-claims-of-voting-fraud-persist*
> 
> *NTD is spreading such left wing falsehoods its crazy... Have a look at their web site... Story after story is either false or completely twisting the truth to appear as tho they are right... Once again FAKE NEWS!!*
> ...




Wow. Thanks for the first link. I can see that you went through a lot of trouble to get it. 

But once again, the link actually doesn't address the data in the video. Thanks anyway though. 

I hope that the next person to respond actually watches the video and not just assume they know what they are responding to.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> Wow. Thanks for the first link. I can see that you went through a lot of trouble to get it.
> 
> But once again, the link actually doesn't address the data in the video. Thanks anyway though.
> 
> I hope that the next person to respond actually watches the video and not just assume they know what they are responding to.


I wasted my time watching that video, all of it. Because I look/read many things from both sides to be able to make an educated stance... Unlike some of us!


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> 5 people (one a police officer) died... How was BLM worst? BLM was in the streets, places where people are allowed to be.... The riot in the capitol were on RESTRICTED property. Meaning they should/could have been shot just for being there.
> Wake up and educate yourself



HAHAHA! ROFL.

You're trying to compare almost a year worth of riots that resulted in hundreds of buildings being burned to the ground, hundreds of people assaulted, maimed and killed to a couple hundred people breaking into a single building and ransacking offices?

We saw Government buildings being attacked, taken over or destroyed. Guess what? All of those people burning down entire buildings were trespassing, but that's such a petty crime compared to arson. Oh, did I forget to mention the thousands of looters steal others property that were also trespassing? You're caught up over something simple like trespassing? Seriously?!?

To top it off after these Liberals, Antifa and BLM members got caught, Biden and other leftist idiots bailed them out of jail and that's if the Liberal judges in these Liberal cesspools of violence even kept the criminals in custody after they were arrested.

You're really trying to say that a small 6 inch ant hill is much taller than the Empire State Building. There were hundreds of violent riots to one single incident, in which barely any damage was one, barely anyone got hurt and only a few got killed? There's really no comparison, which is why I'm calling bullshit on the fake Liberal outrage surrounding the DC riot. If they cared about illegal riots then why did we see the Liberal media glorifying them and people like LeBron James encouraging more violence?

Well, I know what's going on and so does most of the Senate. We aren't as stupid as the Liberal puppets are. You can't lie you way out of it and that's the only strategy your side has ... to lie and deceit, steal, burn, murder and justify these acts because some drug addict overdosed on drugs and died while being restrained for resisting arrest.

It's just the same old "orange man bad" bullshit we've seen for the last 4 years. Your side can do it and it's fine, but if our side does it then it's not fine. Hypocrite.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 13, 2021)

laudern said:


> Wow. Thanks for the first link. I can see that you went through a lot of trouble to get it.
> 
> But once again, the link actually doesn't address the data in the video. Thanks anyway though.
> 
> I hope that the next person to respond actually watches the video and not just assume they know what they are responding to.


You do realize that the link from the guy's previous post before this, the one you claimed was irrelevant, was a direct fact-check to the video, right?
Because that's what it was.
Because the video is complete and utter bullshit.
And the link refutes it.
Now what?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *At Georgia House Hearing, Republicans' Baseless Claims Of Voting Fraud Persist*
> *Source: https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/10...icans-baseless-claims-of-voting-fraud-persist*
> 
> *NTD is spreading such left wing falsehoods its crazy... Have a look at their web site... Story after story is either false or completely twisting the truth to appear as tho they are right... Once again FAKE NEWS!!*
> ...


Can you make your point without blinding me please? Thanks.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> they'll kick Trump's fat ass to the curb


That appears to be what they are doing.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> HAHAHA! ROFL.
> 
> You're trying to compare almost a year worth of riots that resulted in hundreds of buildings being burned to the ground, hundreds of people assaulted, maimed and killed to a couple hundred people breaking into a single building and ransacking offices?
> 
> ...



*Authorities suspect white supremacists and far-left extremists are behind violence at protests*

*Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/autho...tremists-are-behind-violence-at-protests/#app*

*Police: Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists disguised as Black Lives Matter

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...sguised-as-black-lives-matter/?outputType=amp

White supremacists are using the ongoing protests to accelerate civil disorder in an attempt to tear apart the current political system, writes Daniel Byman. 

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.br...iots-white-supremacy-and-accelerationism/amp/
*


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 13, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Can you make your point without blinding me please? Thanks.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


_*NO I CANNOT*_


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 13, 2021)

IncredulousP said:


> _*NO I CANNOT*_


Sorry, White Raven's post blinded me, so I can't see what your comment is


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

TRUMP = DOUBLE IMPEACHED LOSER

REPUBLICANS = SORE LOSERS

JOE BIDEN = Winner (US PRESIDENT)


----------



## laudern (Jan 13, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> You do realize that the link from the guy's previous post before this, the one you claimed was irrelevant, was a direct fact-check to the video, right?
> Because that's what it was.
> Because the video is complete and utter bullshit.
> And the link refutes it.
> Now what?



That's weird. Nowhere in the links does it mention how it is statistically possible to have more than 95% of the votes in 150 counties all voting for 1 guy.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 13, 2021)

The disrespect for our President is monumental, but just be happy you're allowed to criticize him. If we were under others forms of Government doing so would get you put in prison. 

With that said I've seen the Left after the election have no transparency or urgency to thoroughly investigate voter fraud. It's highly likely Trump probably won one or more of the States that the official results claimed he lost in, but I don't think the entire court system and all of the election officials are all in on some plot to steal the election. The results were pretty damned close. We have what, 70 million people who voted for Trump? That's a pretty damn big percentage of the population. 

I know some of you are holding out hope regarding Trump staying in office, but that's probably not going to happen. For those of you who haven't seen how bad things get when the Democrats are in the White House and control both the Senate and the House you're now going to have 4 years to watch all of the good Trump has done get thrown out. We'll be back to "This the best it's going to get" while the economy is utter shit under Biden. You see Chicago? LA? NYC? Detroit? Portland? Those are all examples of what Liberal and Democratic policies do. Now you'll just get to see the country deteriorate on a larger scale.

I hope you like what you voted for, but I have an idea you're all going to be just as miserable as you were for the last 4 years. I understand Liberals derive pleasure by destroying or controlling behavior so things are just going to get worse. 

Enjoy!


----------



## granville (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't believe enough Republicans in the senate will vote yes on impeachment, regardless of what is being speculated upon in the media. Only 10 (of over 200) Republicans voted yes in the House.

McConnell actively blocked an attempt to reconvene the senate prior to the 19th. And he said today he's "unsure if he'll support or oppose conviction and will review the evidence first" during the senate hearings. Even Rick Wilson of the Lincoln Project (a grifter who behaved like a crazy maga-like racist prior to 2016) has issued warnings not to trust McConnell.

McConnell probably won't vote yes when the time comes. He seems to be strategically delaying the hearing until Biden's term starts. Making it where the first few months of Democratic control is stuck in impeachment quagmire. The GOP will drag it out and delay progress from being made on covid relief and other projects Dems promised. And their media spin will be something akin to "Democrats need to end their bloodthirsty obsession with vengeance that seeks to divide us all, they're holding up government aid, look how evil and horrible they are, vote for us in 2022 btw".


----------



## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The disrespect for our President is monumental, but just be happy you're allowed to criticize him. If we were under others forms of Government doing so would get you put in prison.
> 
> With that said I've seen the Left after the election have no transparency or urgency to thoroughly investigate voter fraud. It's highly likely Trump probably won one or more of the States that the official results claimed he lost in, but I don't think the entire court system and all of the election officials are all in on some plot to steal the election. The results were pretty damned close. We have what, 70 million people who voted for Trump? That's a pretty damn big percentage of the population.
> 
> ...


""Thank you for allow me to complain, MASA
I'll promise to be GOOD""
...was that what you wanted to hear?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The disrespect for our President is monumental, but just be happy you're allowed to criticize him. If we were under others forms of Government doing so would get you put in prison.



This sounds exactly like what Trump is trying to do to the Republicans who speak against him. What about "lock her up" that he was yelling out about Hillary Clinton... What about "lock him up" that he starting saying about Joe Biden too.... 

DONALD TRUMP = LOCK HIM UP 

Cause that's what's going to happen because he will get convicted!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 13, 2021)

granville said:


> I don't believe enough Republicans in the senate will vote yes on impeachment, regardless of what is being speculated upon in the media. Only 10 (of over 200) Republicans voted yes in the House.
> 
> McConnell actively blocked an attempt to reconvene the senate prior to the 19th. And he said today he's "unsure if he'll support or oppose conviction and will review the evidence first" during the senate hearings. Even Rick Wilson of the Lincoln Project (a grifter who behaved like a crazy maga-like racist prior to 2016) has issued warnings not to trust McConnell.
> 
> McConnell probably won't vote yes when the time comes. He seems to be strategically delaying the hearing until Biden's term starts. Making it where the first few months of Democratic control is stuck in impeachment quagmire. The GOP will drag it out and delay progress from being made on covid relief and other projects Dems promised. And their media spin will be something akin to "Democrats need to end their bloodthirsty obsession with vengeance that seeks to divide us all, they're holding up government aid, look how evil and horrible they are, vote for us in 2022 btw".


nah McConnell wants Trump out of the Republican party. I think he will delay till after Biden but this allows some Senators to vote yes without that much fear from Trump


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 13, 2021)

djpannda said:


> nah McConnell wants Trump out of the Republican party. I think he will delay till after Biden but this allows some Senators to vote yes without that much fear from Trump



Also the senate will be majority democrat with Biden.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 13, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> This sounds exactly like what Trump is trying to do to the Republicans who speak against him. What about "lock her up" that he was yelling out about Hillary Clinton... What about "lock him up" that he starting saying about Joe Biden too....
> 
> DONALD TRUMP = LOCK HIM UP
> 
> Cause that's what's going to happen because he will get convicted!



As far as I know Trump hasn't made people vanish due to them criticizing him, his policies or decisions. There's reasons Trump wanted both Hillary and Biden locked up and both are not simply "They said something bad about me". In some countries they'll send you to reeducation/labor camps for years if you simply say you don't like your Supreme Leader.

You've also probably haven't been alive long enough or have paid attention to the Presidents of the past few decades. I highly doubt Trump is going to be arrested, tried and convicted over things he did during his Presidency. Government officials already operate on a different rule book then normal citizens do as most of them are criminal scum that deserve to be put in jail. Trump however was not part of the swamp, he was an outsider that shook things up. His policies did wonders for our economy. I know you have the Leftist media directing you to be outraged over petty bullshit so I understand why you think he should be arrested, but in the end it's just petty bullshit.

I'm sad Trump won't be leading for another 4 years and even sadder that the Democrats are going to be the majority as I've seen what their policies result in. Sad times, but life goes on. I just don't agree with the certain conservatives that claim Biden lost. It's pretty unfathomable that 60+ court cases turned up nothing yet somehow there was massive fraud. I hate to say it, but some of the Conservatives are being just as dumb as the Liberals have been for the last 4 years with claiming that Trump isn't the President or isn't their President.


----------



## granville (Jan 14, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Also the senate will be majority democrat with Biden.


It's a slim single vote majority only with the VP tie breaker included, otherwise it's an even 50/50 split between Dems (including the two Independents who caucus with them) and Reps.

Convicting and removing Trump again requires a 2/3 supermajority. 51 votes isn't nearly enough. They need 17 Republicans to support it too. And given that only 10 out of the over 200 Republicans in the House voted no, that's not exactly great odds.

I'm obviously for impeachment if that wasn't clear. But i'm trying to be realistic here. I'm also not new to GOP tactics either.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

Simpsons did it again! 



 

expect you know...LISA is now Biden


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 14, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The disrespect for our President is monumental


Like how he's disrespecting democracy and over half of the country's vote?



Frankfort42 said:


> Trump however was not part of the swamp


Oh get off it. He was born into wealth, was Democrat until 2008 and has been quoted as saying he'd run Republican because of how easy it is to manipulate them. Yes he is very much part of the swamp of the establishment that governs and surrounds American politics and is a perfect symptom of the problems in American politics.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 14, 2021)

To all you Republicans... Calm down! You will see how well the country will be run going forward! Just wait and see. You guys have been drinking Trump Kool-Aid for too long. Like you guys think that America will be over after January 20th. You guys may be happily surprised because Joe Biden is PRO USA, not PRO HIMSELF.

And to the idiots ( @Frankfort42) who think I'm a young kid who doesn't follow politics.... Just look at my profile... Yes that is my real age


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 14, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> You guys may be happily surprised negate Joe Biden is PRO USA, not PRO HIMSELF


Well, he can talk the talk. But can he walk the walk? The only thing we can do is wait and see.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



White_Raven_X said:


> And to the idiots ( @Frankfort42) who think I'm a young kid who doesn't follow politics.... Just look at my profile... Yes that is my real age


I mean, considering your behaviour and the fact that you actually decide to point this out when no one has said otherwise, this would make some beg to differ...


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 14, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> To all you Republicans... Calm down! You will see how well the country will be run going forward! Just wait and see. You guys have been drinking Trump Kool-Aid for too long. Like you guys think that America will be over after January 20th. You guys may be happily surprised negate Joe Biden is PRO USA, not PRO HIMSELF.
> 
> And to the idiots ( @Frankfort42) who think I'm a young kid who doesn't follow politics.... Just look at my profile... Yes that is my real age


its not biden they are worried about, its the far left who will just run him over and eventually take over


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 14, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> , considering your behaviour and the fact that you actually decide to point this out when no one has said otherwise, this would make some beg to differ...


Read what weiner wrote... The whole thing... If you did, you wouldn't say stupid things.


Frankfort42 said:


> You've also probably haven't been alive long enough or have paid attention to the Presidents of the past few decades.



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Joe88 said:


> its not biden they are worried about, its the far left who will just run him over and eventually take over


I didn't get that from what I read... But that won't happen.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 14, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> its not biden they are worried about, its the far left who will just run him over and eventually take over


If it was that easy for the "far left" to seize power from centrist Democrats, it would've happened decades ago.  

It's all projection.  The Republican party has ceded power to extremists, so they believe the Democratic party must be willing to do the same.


----------



## granville (Jan 14, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> To all you Republicans... Calm down! You will see how well the country will be run going forward! Just wait and see. You guys have been drinking Trump Kool-Aid for too long. Like you guys think that America will be over after January 20th. You guys may be happily surprised because Joe Biden is PRO USA, not PRO HIMSELF.


Senate Republicans can and will still obstruct with the filibuster, just as they did during Obama. The filibuster ups the required votes on most legislation to 60 votes instead of the regular majority of 51.

Though the filibuster itself can be nuked entirely with just a regular senate majority from what I understand. Harry Reid and Barack Obama have called for getting rid of it, and a lot of senators seem open to it. Biden previously said he opposes it, but seemed a bit more open-minded in the past year when asked what he'd do if Republicans abuse it to obstruct him.

However, there may be a problem with several conservative leaning senate Democrats. Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema have both said they would oppose ending the filibuster. And they've given no indication they would change their mind (Manchin seems to have voted against ending it in the past). If they continue to maintain that position, then the Republicans could still effectively control of the senate.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 14, 2021)

granville said:


> The filibuster ups the required votes on most legislation to 60 votes instead of the regular majority of 51.


I think this is what your talking about :

"under current Senate rules, a rule change could itself be filibustered, requiring two-thirds of senators who are present and voting to end debate. (This differs from the usual requirement for three-fifths of sworn senators.)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_United_States_Senate


After reading a little more on the subject, I've found more information that is of interest :

In 1917, the Senate adopted Rule 22 whereby a small group of senators (currently 16) petitions to “invoke cloture.” The petition “lays over” for two days and then the Senate votes to decide if debate should be brought to a close so the Senate can vote on the measure and move on. Until 1974, imposing cloture required a 2/3 supermajority; since then, it has been slightly easier at 3/5, or 60 votes. Another change is that it will take just one motion instead of three to go to conference, meaning some major legislation might once again be hammered out by conferees with subject-matter expertise. Only about 10% of legislation goes to conference anymore. The balance either dies or is resolved by trading amendments between chambers, a process known as “ping-ponging” that gives more influence to the leadership.

Source: https://gai.georgetown.edu/filibuster-rules-changes-epitomize-the-senate/


Very interesting, but I really do think that he will get convicted. This is my opinion.

On a side not, interesting how your last response to me seems almost "word for word" of the description in the wiki shortcut that I have linked at the top of this comment. Here's exactly what it says from wiki:

"At times, the "nuclear option" has been proposed to eliminate the 60 vote threshold for certain matters before the Senate. The nuclear option is a parliamentary procedure that allows the United States Senate to override a standing rule of the Senate, including the 60-vote rule to close debate, by a simple majority of 51 votes, rather than the two-thirds supermajority normally required to amend the rules."

Be honest, have you been reading wiki lately?! 
If not, your like a walking dictionary... We can just direct all of our questions to you.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

ok this was funny 
Pirate Bay is Enemy #1 worldwide for 20+years  
Parler is down in a week.
The pirate bay, the most censored website in the world, started by kids, run by people with problems with alcohol, drugs and money, still is up after almost 2 decades. Parlor and gab etc have all the money around but no skills or mindset. Embarrassing.— Peter Sunde Kolmisoppi (@brokep) January 10, 2021


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 14, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ok this was funny
> Pirate Bay is Enemy #1 worldwide for 20+years
> Parler is down in a week.
> https://twitter.com/brokep/status/1348194329005875203


That is funny, but understanding how websites like pirate Bay can move from one server to another and offering proxy websites, makes it hard to completely stop them. Peer to peer will for ever be difficult to stop.
Thank God for PB!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> That is funny, but understanding how websites like pirate Bay can move from one server to another and offering proxy websites, makes it hard to completely stop them. Peer to peer will for ever be difficult to stop.
> Thank God for PB!


Cuz pirate are more respected than Nazis....


----------



## tabzer (Jan 14, 2021)

I think it is good advice for everyone to prepare for a possible blackout of power and internet, especially if you are in the US.  Have enough food, water, and heat for at least three days.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I think it is good advice for everyone to prepare for a possible blackout of power and internet, especially if you are in the US.  Have enough food, water, and heat for at least three days.


... yea and the Pope and Nancy Pelosi are Already arrested and replaced with doppelgängers


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 14, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I think it is good advice for everyone to prepare for a possible blackout of power and internet, especially if you are in the US.  Have enough food, water, and heat for at least three days.


Once again, fake news.... From who? None other but Tabzer... It's either him or shamzie.

This is the only blackout that is happening :
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article248417200.html

Should be really peaceful for the next 30 days... Thank God!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 14, 2021)

It's from FEMA  A mounting militia implicates something relatively serious is anticipated.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 14, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's from FEMA  A mounting militia implicates something relatively serious is anticipated.


AFAIK the plan is for MAGAts to attack state capitols all around the country on the 17th, and attack the inauguration on the 20th.  There's been no chatter in regards to attacking power plants, so I'd say Russian hackers are a much bigger threat to our power grid at any given moment.  Some of what you posted is good advice in general though, always best to be prepared.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 14, 2021)

Xzi said:


> AFAIK the plan is for MAGAts to attack state capitols all around the country on the 17th, and attack the inauguration on the 20th.  There's been no chatter in regards to attacking power plants, so I'd say Russian hackers are a much bigger threat to our power grid at any given moment.  Some of what you posted is good advice in general though, always best to be prepared.



Nice WAPO reference.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 14, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Nice WAPO reference.


I'm not sure what part of my post you're referring to, any number of news outlets have reported the same information I posted.  You can also just go on 4chan, Gab, etc and see what they're saying for yourself.  They've virtually given up on trying to keep this stuff secret.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 14, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I'm not sure what part of my post you're referring to, any number of news outlets have reported the same information I posted.  You can also just go on 4chan, Gab, etc and see what they're saying for yourself.  They've virtually given up on keeping this stuff secret.



I'm not saying that I don't believe you.  I personally don't know what to expect.  That's all.

Also, I thought the reference to Russians hacking the powergrid was about this classic WAPO "blunder".


----------



## Xzi (Jan 14, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Oh I thought the reference to Russians hacking the powergrid was about this classic WAPO "blunder".


Oh.  Nah, I was thinking more about their recent hack of government systems.  A lot of our power grid is running on even more ancient technology than those.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 14, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Oh.  Nah, I was thinking more about their recent hack of government systems.  A lot of our power grid is running on even more ancient technology than those.


Is it related to that Solarwinds thing?  I can't read the article because it's paywalled.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jan 14, 2021)

trump has pretty much been kicked off the internet every single one of his social media accounts or services he uses has shut him off! fucking hilarious!!!!


----------



## Xzi (Jan 14, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Is it related to that Solarwinds thing?  I can't read the article because it's paywalled.


Yeah I didn't realize that's what it was being called.  Some 250 federal agencies and businesses are believed to have been affected.  

Here's a non-paywalled article on it:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/2/22210667/solarwinds-hack-worse-government-microsoft-cybersecurity


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 14, 2021)

Xzi said:


> You can also just go on 4chan, Gab, etc and see what they're saying for yourself


I'm not sure if the likes of 4chan and Gab are reliable sources for an impending attack considering most 'events' organised by 4chan are memes and trolls, such as pridefall. I rememeber back in June time when several of my friends were warning me about pridefall, and I had to keep telling them that it's a 4chan meme and it doesn't actually happen, mostly people who think they know a lot about the internet but actually aren't that clever.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 14, 2021)

Hehe not only has Trump been removed from pretty much all social media platforms he is now set to have his appearance in Home Alone 2 removed from all future realeses of the film. He is fast becoming the Chris Benoit of the political world. Soon just like Chris people won't even dare mention his name because of all the heinous crimes he has committed


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 14, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Hehe not only has Trump been removed from pretty much all social media platforms he is now set to have his appearance in Home Alone 2 removed from all future realeses of the film. He is fast becoming the Chris Benoit of the political world. Soon just like Chris people won't even dare mention his name because of all the heinous crimes he has committed



"hehe somebody i dislike is being removed from all social media, not only that but a cameo appearance in a movie which has no relevance to anything today whatsoever is even being removed too hehehehe but I'm totally all about inclusivity and acceptance comrades!"


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

shamzie said:


> "hehe somebody i dislike is being removed from all social media, not only that but a cameo appearance in a movie which has no relevance to anything today whatsoever is even being removed too hehehehe but I'm totally all about inclusivity and acceptance comrades!"


dude, he's a narcissistic tyrant
he's quite possibly one of the very few people that actually do deserve to be unpersoned imo
the chad hominem strats you're trying don't work because he really doesn't deserve acceptance

trump is basically a walking example of why the golden mean fallacy and other balance-related fallacies... are fallacies
because he's so disastrously extreme in so many ways that not only is moving towards him ideologically just a bad idea in general unless you're starting at the other, as-of-yet unseen, extreme, but trying to claim equivalence between the actions of him and his supporters and those of his opponents is a bald-faced lie


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> dude, he's a narcissistic tyrant
> he's quite possibly one of the very few people that actually do deserve to be unpersoned imo
> the chad hominem strats you're trying don't work because he really doesn't deserve acceptance


He only got the part in Home Alone 2 because he bullied the film crew into letting him be in it.

A contract had been signed for the film crew to make Home Alone 2 in Trump's Plazza hotel. And then they turned up to make the film and he refused them entery unless they doubled the amount of money they had agreed to pay to use the hotel. The film company refused his demands as they had a legally binding contract and after the lawyers got involved he gave up on his demands. A few days later Trump once again refused them entery to the Plaza and said unless he was put in the film they weren't getting in. They decided to just let him have his way rather than having to get the lawyers involved again. Trump is nothing but an egotistical bully.


----------



## g00s3y (Jan 14, 2021)

Trash in here still crying about losing.

Trump is nazi trash, just like every one of those that tried to take over the capitol.

His supporters need their safe space, free of facts and reality. SAD!


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 14, 2021)

so it seems the GOP Senators finally woke up (how much remains to be seen) mcconnal seems enthused to hold a trial after biden is sworn in and yes it is a thing it's called late term impeachment and is more to prevent trump from running in 2024 (rather for life) rather than remove from office


----------



## smf (Jan 14, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ok this was funny
> Pirate Bay is Enemy #1 worldwide for 20+years
> Parler is down in a week.



Those two things are true, but you can't draw any conclusion from it.

parler is legal but because nobody is prepared to host their massive site that require lots of bandwidth
piratebay is small and low bandwidth and illegal, you could host it from a mobile phone.

I assume parler will self host soon, but it will be too late for the true MAGA to follow Trumps commands to take the government by force.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 14, 2021)

I agree with him getting removed from social media platforms but old and unrelated movies? I think that goes a bit too far.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> I agree with him getting removed from social media platforms but old and unrelated movies? I think that goes a bit too far.


To be fair, as mentioned previously, he was never really supposed to be in the movie to begin with and basically bullied his way into it.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> To be fair, as mentioned previously, he was never really supposed to be in the movie to begin with and basically bullied his way into it.


Fair enough. But normally this would not make sense (costs money and removes history).


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> Fair enough. But normally this would not make sense (costs money and removes history).


In this case, it's a statement.
That even retroactively, Trump's tyrannical strongarm strategies can and will be defeated.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> dude, he's a narcissistic tyrant
> he's quite possibly one of the very few people that actually do deserve to be unpersoned imo
> the chad hominem strats you're trying don't work because he really doesn't deserve acceptance
> 
> ...



Who's the narcissist? From here the one's celebrating him being removed from a 30year old movie and being removed from the internet seem pretty narcissistic to me. Am i allowed to advocate for your removal from accessing and communicating online freely and then celebrate when it happens or is this a one way thing. Aslong as it's your enemies being silenced everything is cool.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 14, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Who's the narcissist? From here the one's celebrating him being removed from a 30year old movie and being removed from the internet seem pretty narcissistic to me. Am i allowed to advocate for your removal from accessing and communicating online freely and then celebrate when it happens or is this a one way thing. Aslong as it's your enemies being silenced everything is cool.


i dont think you know what the word narcissist means


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 14, 2021)

smf said:


> Those two things are true, but you can't draw any conclusion from it.
> 
> parler is legal but because nobody is prepared to host their massive site that require lots of bandwidth
> piratebay is small and low bandwidth and illegal, you could host it from a mobile phone.
> ...



Trump has never once told anyone to take the government by force. I expect Raven to come on here later absolutely sobbing about the misinformation you're posting. Just kidding that would make them fair and balanced.



jupitteer said:


> i dont think



I know you don't. It's okay.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 14, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Trump has never once told anyone to take the government by force. I expect Raven to come on here later absolutely sobbing about the misinformation you're posting. Just kidding that would make them fair and balanced.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you don't. It's okay.


you got me


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Trump has never once told anyone to take the government by force. I expect Raven to come on here later absolutely sobbing about the misinformation you're posting. Just kidding that would make them fair and balanced.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you don't. It's okay.


Considering you claim Trump hasn't incited violence just because he doesn't completely in-plain-sight-and-in-your-face spell it out word by word, and then _you_ claim that _he_ doesn't think and _we're_ narcissists... projecting much?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Considering you claim Trump hasn't incited violence just because he doesn't completely in-plain-sight-and-in-your-face spell it out word by word, and then _you_ claim that _he_ doesn't think and _we're_ narcissists... projecting much?


Yep it's s not like in his speech right before the riots that he said over 25 times for the people to FIGHT to overturn the election. Oh wait he did

Its not like his own son at the same time posted a message saying for the trump supporter's to fight to the death to overturn the election. Oh wait his son did. 

Its not like his son in law said right before the riot for the trump supporter's to fight with all their might to overturn the election. Oh wait his son in law did lol. 

I'm sure none of that was responsible for the cult of Trump going on a riot


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 14, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Hehe not only has Trump been removed from pretty much all social media platforms he is now set to have his appearance in Home Alone 2 removed from all future realeses of the film. He is fast becoming the Chris Benoit of the political world. Soon just like Chris people won't even dare mention his name because of all the heinous crimes he has committed



Either Obama or Biden would be the best replacement for him. 


ghjfdtg said:


> I agree with him getting removed from social media platforms but old and unrelated movies? I think that goes a bit too far.


Not sure about this either, but still pretty funny.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 14, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Either Obama or Biden would be the best replacement for him.



It would be funnier to replace him digitally with Richard Nixon. What with Nixon no longer being the biggest criminal to have been president ect.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 14, 2021)

g00s3y said:


> Trump is nazi trash


The use of the word 'Nazi' to describe idiotic clowns like Trump is why the word 'Nazi' no longer holds any value and has been relegated to an insult to throw around on the internet.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> The use of the word 'Nazi' to describe idiotic clowns like Trump is why the word 'Nazi' no longer holds any value and has been relegated to an insult to throw around on the internet.


Considering the sheer amount of neo-Nazis in his base (whom, to this day, he refuses to condemn)... it's sadly an apt descriptor.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Considering the sheer amount of neo-Nazis in his base (whom, to this day, he refuses to condemn)... it's sadly an apt descriptor.


I disagree. He's refused to condemn far right groups like the Proud Boys, but he's not a Nazi and the percentage of Nazis that make up his die hard fanbase is very low, because any Nazi that is worth his salt would hate Trump and the Republicans as much as the far left does, and you'll find that most of MAGA hates Nazis too. Not because of their ideology _per se_, but more because they were one of, if not the biggest enemy America ever fought and being a Nazi would be unpatriotic, and obviously MAGA is extremely patriotic, in their own warped sense.

A Nazi is the most extreme far right ideologue, even more so than a fascist. It's not a word to use lightly and should be reserved for the most utterly insane and extreme far right individuals, very few of which exist in America. Most neo-Nazis exist in northern Europe.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I disagree. He's refused to condemn far right groups like the Proud Boys, but he's not a Nazi and the percentage of Nazis that make up his die hard fanbase is very low, because any Nazi that is worth his salt would hate Trump and the Republicans as much as the far left does, and you'll find that most of MAGA hates Nazis too. Not because of their ideology _per se_, but more because they were one of, if not the biggest enemy America ever fought and being a Nazi would be unpatriotic, and obviously MAGA is extremely patriotic, in their own warped sense.
> 
> A Nazi is the most extreme far right ideologue, even more so than a fascist. It's not a word to use lightly and should be reserved for the most utterly insane and extreme far right individuals, very few of which exist in America. Most neo-Nazis exist in northern Europe.


Okay, fair point. He's just so utterly narcissistic that he doesn't really have mental room for SPECIFIC bigotry- just a general hatred of anyone that doesn't support him and/or is significantly different from him. It's like a bizarre blend of extreme xenophobia and, well, narcissism.
Fascist, bigot and tyrant he may be, but not quite a Nazi.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Okay, fair point. He's just so utterly narcissistic that he doesn't really have mental room for SPECIFIC bigotry- just a general hatred of anyone that doesn't support him and/or is significantly different from him. It's like a bizarre blend of extreme xenophobia and, well, narcissism.
> Fascist, bigot and tyrant he may be, but not quite a Nazi.


Yes, essentially. He's a childish narcissist who hates people who don't like him.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 14, 2021)

Oh look Trump has now even went as far as to scam
Rudy Giuliani. He agreed to pay Rudy $20000 a day to be his lawyer. The conman is refusing to pay him now for the work he did. And yall in the cult continue to say he aint a scumbag or a conman.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...ay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh look Trump has now even went as far as to scam
> Rudy Giuliani. He agreed to pay Rudy $20000 a day to be his lawyer. Now the conman is refusing to pay him now for the work he did. And yall in the cult continue to say he aint a scumbag or a conman.
> 
> https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...ay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out


Something tells me this is going to cause Giuliani to finally snap and break away from him... leaving him with only _Lin Wood, _a _*frothing madman*_, as the sole member of his legal team AFAIK.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Republicans: hEaLInG anD UniTy

Also Republicans: https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1349519602888355840?s=19


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 14, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Something tells me this is going to cause Giuliani to finally snap and break away from him... leaving him with only _Lin Wood, _a _*frothing madman*_, as the sole member of his legal team AFAIK.


I think absolutely everyone would snap and break away from someone if they had a legal contract to $20000 a day and then they got scammed out of it by the person that hired them.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 14, 2021)

Plot twist Trump can't pay him because he used all the grift money for his debts.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Republicans: hEaLInG anD UniTy
> 
> Also Republicans: https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1349519602888355840?s=19


oh.. you mean one of Rep that have been reported to give "Tours" to some of the people in the "seditious Coup" on 1/5?  lolol
I have a feeling its not ending good for her....


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 14, 2021)

djpannda said:


> oh.. you mean one of Rep that have been reported to give "Tours" to some of the people in the "seditious Coup" on 1/5?  lolol
> I have a feeling its not ending good for her....


i can see a lot of republicans being ousted even charged with treason they fucked up their own political careers good riddance


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> i can see a lot of republicans being ousted even charged with treason they fucked up their own political careers good riddance


Sedition not treason

Sedition is "trying to overthrow the government"
Treason is "helping another country to overthrow the government "


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Sedition not treason
> 
> Sedition is "trying to overthrow the government"
> Treason is "helping another country to overthrow the government "


...so it's sedition until they finally get some truly incriminating dirt on his connection to Putin.
Can't wait!


----------



## Driving_duck (Jan 14, 2021)

Can we just admit, no matter what, the GOP is screwed. Trump lost the election because of so many reasons i can say in this post because it will be too long, The demos have a majority in the senate AND the house, Greene saying shes gonna try impeaching biden is complete bullshit, the GOP is split between being Braindead and supporting trump forever and wanting to F him, and somewhat smart republicans who finally fiqured out that trump is a complete idiot.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 14, 2021)

In my opinion still supporting Trump is the bigger suicide. They will need some of the democrats votes in the future. They will not get nearly as much votes without Trump so it would be a smart move to dump Trump to even have a any chance to gain back votes.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 14, 2021)

Driving_duck said:


> Can we just admit, no matter what, the GOP is screwed. Trump lost the election because of so many reasons i can say in this post because it will be too long, The demos have a majority in the senate AND the house, Greene saying shes gonna try impeaching biden is complete bullshit, the GOP is split between being Braindead and supporting trump forever and wanting to F him, and somewhat smart republicans who finally fiqured out that trump is a complete idiot.


They're basically suffering a far, far worse version of what happened to us (Dems) in 2016, where we had two equally-kinda-okay-sorta candidates that we couldn't decide between.
Only that instead of a one-time conflict between two options, both of which are about mediocre, it's a likely-recurring conflict between the sane parts and the parts that are part of Trump's borderline personality-cult- and this'll make it basically impossible for any Republican to get the support of both parts.

Also, about the thing with Giuliani mentioned a bit earlier...
Imagine Rudy sues Trump's ass for this (which he has every right in the world to do while Trump has absolutely no excuse for it), and the narcissistic fucknugget has to find a lawyer that'll defend him in a case about him... *refusing to pay his lawyer.*


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 14, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Sedition not treason
> 
> Sedition is "trying to overthrow the government"
> Treason is "helping another country to overthrow the government "


not true honestly sedition is what trump did he incited the rebeleon but the actual rioters commited treason
source:https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/sedition.html now say trump pardoned everyone for the riot he then commits treason because he rendered aide to enemies of the government


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

Apologized
as per US code Treason can be issue to people who declare war on the US with or with out another country ..
But its goin to be hard to prove because they usually say they want to overthrown the US government to fix it .. not just declare war


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 14, 2021)

if you need more info on the difference between insurrection,treason and sedition heres another law school site https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

bascily on sedition alone he can be disqualified to run again not just treason

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> Apologized
> as per US code Treason can be issue to people who declare war on the US with or with out another country ..
> But its goin to be hard to prove because they usually say they want to overthrown the US government to fix it .. not just declare war


actually it can be proved easier cause of social media post like that 70tb dump that occured


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> if you need more info on the difference between insurrection,treason and sedition heres another law school site https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


well cant be proven yet.(as in today)... . Thats one of the reasons most of them has not been charged with heavy charges yet....
 damn it Chrisrlink Stop correcting me !!! lolol


----------



## djpannda (Jan 14, 2021)

Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account
lol looks like Treason is possible!!!!


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 15, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account
> lol looks like Treason is possible!!!!



Remember when the right was all up in arms because they thought BLM protestors and antifa were being paid by George Soros?

Every fucking time. The hypocrisy is astounding.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 15, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Republicans: hEaLInG anD UniTy
> 
> Also Republicans: https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1349519602888355840?s=19


Remember that person in this thread saying something like "Democrats/leftist wanted to impeach Trump before he got in office!"? As if that somehow makes people immune to consequences. Well, now people can throw this back at them.

Anyway, not that it matters, they don't even have the majority right now.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Remember that person in this thread saying something like "Democrats/leftist wanted to impeach Trump before he got in office!"? As if that somehow makes people immune to consequences. Well, now people can throw this back at them.
> 
> Anyway, not that it matters, they don't even have the majority right now.


Yeah, I don't even think we DID try something this stupid for him. And if we seriously did... well, we had actual dirt on Trump of the shit he did before he took office.
Also, not only do they not have the majority, but good old Dictatonald Drumpf fucked things up so badly that we've now taken control of _*all three parts of Congress*_ just from his one trainwreck of a term!


----------



## Xzi (Jan 15, 2021)

Trump administration concludes appropriately, with toilet scandal.

_"Instructed not to use any of the half-dozen bathrooms inside the couple’s house, the Secret Service detail assigned to President Trump’s daughter and son-in-law spent months searching for a reliable restroom to use on the job, according to neighbors and law enforcement officials. After resorting to a porta-potty, as well as bathrooms at the nearby home of former president Barack Obama and the not-so-nearby residence of Vice President Pence, the agents finally found a toilet to call their own.

But it came at a cost to U.S. taxpayers. Since September 2017, the federal government has been spending $3,000 a month — more than $100,000 to date — to rent a basement studio, with a bathroom, from a neighbor of the Kushner family."_

Government waste, both literally and figuratively.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Trump administration concludes appropriately, with toilet scandal.
> 
> _"Instructed not to use any of the half-dozen bathrooms inside the couple’s house, the Secret Service detail assigned to President Trump’s daughter and son-in-law spent months searching for a reliable restroom to use on the job, according to neighbors and law enforcement officials. After resorting to a porta-potty, as well as bathrooms at the nearby home of former president Barack Obama and the not-so-nearby residence of Vice President Pence, the agents finally found a toilet to call their own.
> 
> ...


thats a SHAME... 3000 is about the same about some GBAtemper make in a year in some parts of the world... but the USA is wasting it so  a bodyguard can take a shit..


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 15, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Yeah, I don't even think we DID try something this stupid for him. And if we seriously did... well, we had actual dirt on Trump of the shit he did before he took office.
> Also, not only do they not have the majority, but good old Dictatonald Drumpf fucked things up so badly that we've now taken control of _*all three parts of Congress*_ just from his one trainwreck of a term!



It's too bad your only education on the subject comes from fake news sources. The leftist fake news machine lied about and used Trump to control you and others as for some reason your side is obsessed with him. You were used and lied to so that certain people could gain power and wealth. These people don't care about you otherwise you wouldn't have lied to and manipulated you. I actually feel sorry for you as you must be pretty damned gullible to fall for something so obvious. Basically, what you think about Trump is all based on lies. Trump did wonders for the country, but that doesn't benefit the globalists in charge so he had to go.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 15, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I actually feel sorry for you as you must be pretty damned gullible to fall for something so obvious.



Bro conservatives literally took a fucking shitpost on 4chan and turned it into an actual god damn conspiracy theory.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Bro conservatives literally took a fucking shitpost on 4chan and turned it into an actual god damn conspiracy theory.



Didn't 4chan get Donald Trump elected President as a prank?


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Didn't 4chan get Donald Trump elected President as a prank?



I don't know, you tell me. I legitimately have no idea.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account
> lol looks like Treason is possible!!!!


Ok but this conclusively proves nothing. It could have been Trump, yes. But it could have also been a rich Trump supporter. Until it's actually linked to Trump, this proves nothing. Jumping to 'TrUmP fUnDeD tHeM' is almost as standardless and idiotic as the election rigging conspiraceh.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Didn't 4chan get Donald Trump elected President as a prank?





Sicklyboy said:


> I don't know, you tell me. I legitimately have no idea.


Pretty much. Everything 4chan does is a meme, essentially.


----------



## smf (Jan 15, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Basically, what you think about Trump is all based on lies. Trump did wonders for the country, but that doesn't benefit the globalists in charge so he had to go.



The real Donald Trump has been in a coma since slipping on pearls dropped by Macaulay Culkin during filming of Home Alone 2.

Since then he is a computer controlled mannequin create by Bill Gates at the request of the Clintons. His hands were damaged as it's normal to protect yourself when falling by putting your arms out, which is why they couldn't take a cast from his real hands and they made a mistake and made the new ones too small. Technology wasn't good enough to get the correct skin tone back then either, which is how they got stuck with the wrong hue.

They created a personality that was able to fool low IQ people into thinking he was doing a great job, while destroying the economy from the inside. They also programmed him to say not to wear masks, because they wanted to kill all the low IQ people off as they do not contribute to the long term prosperity of the human race.

Once Biden gets in then the full extent of Trumps disastrous presidency will be revealed for Biden to clean up.

A friend of my cousin works in the intensive care hospital that is looking after the real Donald Trump, but phones are not allowed in there so they can't take pictures. Covid 19 was orchestrated as a cover to prevent investigations into the hospital.

It's all there to see.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

smf said:


> The real Donald Trump has been in a coma since slipping on pearls dropped by Macaulay Culkin during filming of Home Alone 2.
> 
> Since then he is a computer controlled mannequin create by Bill Gates at the request of the Clintons. His hands were damaged as it's normal to protect yourself when falling by putting your arms out, which is why they couldn't take a cast from his real hands and they made a mistake and made the new ones too small. Technology wasn't good enough to get the correct skin tone back then either, which is how they got stuck with the wrong hue.
> 
> ...



+1 for thinking outside of the box.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

25K soldiers are a security threat?

And in other news, Joe succeeds with more fraud.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And in other news, Joe succeeds with more fraud.


...It's a fucking pigeon Tabzer.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> 25K soldiers are a security threat?
> 
> And in other news, Joe succeeds with more fraud.


Birds aren’t real, dude.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Birds aren’t real, dude.


Which is, yet, more evidence of how the grand conspiracy is beyond our understanding.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Can someone please debunk this?

As in, try something that targets the error of the information instead of targeting who is reporting on it.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Ok but this conclusively proves nothing. It could have been Trump, yes. But it could have also been a rich Trump supporter. Until it's actually linked to Trump, this proves nothing. Jumping to 'TrUmP fUnDeD tHeM' is almost as standardless and idiotic as the election rigging conspiraceh.
> .


Ok come down sparky...
The convo was about the seditious coup rioters and if they can be charged with sedition or treason( if payments were from foreign entities) The convo was not about the President... unless You’re  categorizing him as a rioter or the money man.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Ok come down sparky...
> The convo was about the seditious coup rioters and if they can be charged with sedition or treason( if payments were from foreign entities) The convo was not about the President... unless You’re  categorizing him as a rioter or the money man.


Idk.  For a group of people attributing all those bunk court losses to Trump, it's not a reach to assume that's already what you are doing.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Which is, yet, more evidence of how the grand conspiracy is beyond our understanding.


Although, I would sooner believe in the existence of birds before believing the mass voter fraud conspiracy. There’s actual evidence of that birds do exist.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Although, I would sooner believe in the existence of birds before believing the mass voter fraud conspiracy. There’s actual evidence of that birds do exist.


Well there's evidence of both.  Unfortunately the MSM shows preference on covering evidence that birds don't exist.

I'm personally piqued in Sullivan's findings on the matter.

Not mention Ruby's on video acknowledgement or the 1000 or so affidavits which have been considered a form of evidence up until the 21st century.

1000 witnesses or 1 Christopher Steele?  You decide!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> 1000 witnesses


1000 witnesses is not good evidence. There's several hundred thousand Trumptards, so to clear any likelihood of false testimony, you would need at least 1 million witnesses for something like this.

Witness statements should not be considered evidence of anything unless they can fit two criteria:

1. Multiple unrelated witness statements correlate and agree with each other
2. It is beyond reasonable doubt or likelihood that said witness statements are lies

Right now, 1000 statements for election fraud only barely satisfies the first, and does not come close to satisfying the second. For something as monumental as election fraud, you need actual hard evidence. 'Some people say so' is not good enough. Any old trumptard can come forward and claim that they saw Mr. Brown the democrat intefere with his vote, or Mr. Smith the democrat gave the guy in front an extra vote. We're talking about a country of nearly 330 _million_ people. 1000 witness statements and a couple slip ups are not good enough to start claiming the entire thing was rigged. In a country that big, election fraud is bound to happen, but on nowhere near the kind of scale we're talking about.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Well, it used to be that by signing an affidavit is akin to testifying in court with the penalty of purjury. Now, I guess 1000s of people are willing to go to jail in order to lie about something they believe in.   Huh....

Whereas 1 Christopher Steele is insulated with protection from the people he is trying to help.  And his testimony gets more likes!


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Well there's evidence of both.  Unfortunately the MSM shows preference on covering evidence that birds don't exist.
> 
> I'm personally piqued in Sullivan's findings on the matter.
> 
> ...


Got any hard evidence or is it just more far-right conspiracy with lackluster sources?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Tbh the expectation of 1 million witnesses is very ridiculous.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lilith Valentine said:


> Got any hard evidence or is it just more far-right conspiracy with lackluster sources?



Well, if video isn't hard evidence, then I guess the only evidence you would accept is when you are jailed right along with them.

1000 affidavits being far-right in terms of evidence?  Yeah, I guess witnesses were always overrated anyway, lol.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Tbh the expectation of 1 million witnesses is very ridiculous.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


And what are the creditably to these witnesses? Are they people involved in the polling? Are they reliable sources that can back up with their claims with evidence? Anyone can say anything, but without evidence, why should they be believed? Are there actual sources with actual evidence or is everything just hinging on flimsy evidence that still doesn’t add up to make a difference?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> And what are the creditably to these witnesses? Are they people involved in the polling? Are they reliable sources that can back up with their claims with evidence? Anyone can say anything, but without evidence, why should they be believed? Are there actual sources with actual evidence or is everything just hinging on flimsy evidence that still doesn’t add up to make a difference?


Interesting, that you only start asking questions when the official MSM narrative is challenged.  Well, they are good questions.  I hope they will be answered!


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Interesting, that you only start asking questions when the official MSM narrative is challenged.  Well, they are good questions.  I hope they will be answered!


Nice way try to twist my words, you still didn’t provide any hard evidence towards mass voter fraud.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Idk.  For a group of people attributing all those bunk court losses to Trump, it's not a reach to assume that's already what you are doing.


Oh man so sad.. tabzer with is trolling excuses


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Oh man so sad.. tabzer with is trolling excuses



1st, nobody wants to be you.  2nd It is not an excuse, it is a comparison.



Lilith Valentine said:


> Nice way try to twist my words,



How did I twist your words.  Harder proof (or evidence) of voter fraud exists more than proof (or evidence) that there isn't.  It seems like that many people prefer knowing the truth over agreeing with the narrative.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> How did I twist your words.  Harder proof (or evidence) of voter fraud exists more than proof (or evidence) that there isn't.  It seems like that many people prefer knowing the truth over agreeing with the narrative.


That's why over 60 court cases wasn't thrown out, oh wait.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> 1st, nobody wants to be you.  2nd It is not an excuse, it is a comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> How did I twist your words.  Harder proof (or evidence) of voter fraud exists more than proof (or evidence) that there isn't.  It seems like that many people prefer knowing the truth over agreeing with the narrative.


1st, fuck off trying to be a Chad Hominem.
2nd, it's not a comparison, it's a poorly-done _tu quoque_ fallacy.
Also, there _*isn't*_ significant hard evidence of voter fraud. That's the entire point. It's vacuous bullshit, and Trump's numerous attempts to take our very democracy to court have proven that by failing miserably.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> 1st, fuck off trying to be a Chad Hominem.
> 2nd, it's not a comparison, it's a poorly-done tu quoque fallacy.
> Also, there _*isn't*_ significant hard evidence of voter fraud. That's the entire point. It's vacuous bullshit, and Trump's numerous attempts to take our very democracy to court have proven that by failing miserably.



Lol, ok.  As long as it's in another language it must be legit.  The "you are always wrong, I am allowed to be a hypocrite" fallacy.

Nice.

We have many people who demonstrate that they don't care about finding the truth, but that they would prefer to embellish their narrative.

As long as more people hate politicians because if this BS, I am satisfied.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Lol, ok.  As long as it's in another language it must be legit.  The "you are always wrong, I am allowed to be a hypocrite" fallacy.
> 
> Nice.
> 
> ...


You've accepted the claim that the election was "probably rigged," despite you being unaware of any evidence that the election was rigged. You are the one who doesn't care about finding the truth.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Lol, ok.  As long as it's in another language it must be legit.  The "you are always wrong, I am allowed to be a hypocrite" fallacy.
> 
> Nice.
> 
> ...


...no???
Ad hominem is "to the person"- the "nobody wants to be you" is attacking your opponent as a person and not their actual point or statements.
Tu quoque is "you also"- acting like you did nothing wrong by claiming the opponent did it too.
Arguably, if "you're always wrong, I'm allowed to be a hypocrite" was even a specific fallacy... what do you call making up fraud claims out of thin air while ignoring or even defending Trump's bald-faced attempts at voter suppression? ("Stop the Count" much?)

Now please, for the good of us all, *fuck off with the fraud claims until you have significant hard evidence.*


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You've accepted the claim that the election was "probably rigged," despite you being unaware of any evidence that the election was rigged. You are the one who doesn't care about finding the truth.



You want to quote me on that, so thay we can have access to context?  I say thay because I am pretty sure it's getting to the point where it is undeniable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> ...no???
> Ad hominem is "to the person"- the "nobody wants to be you"



He called me sad.  I am less sad than ever.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You want to quote me on that, so thay we can have access to context?  I say thay because I am pretty sure it's getting to the point where it is undeniable.


you literally have "we believe in election fraud" in your sig, linking to a website entirely composed of single-eyewitness claims or anecdotes (both very, very unreliable) that, even if it was actually all true (which it is demonstrably not), wouldn't even provide a THIRD of the victory margin

also, he called your ARGUMENT sad
which it is
because you were just using _tu quoque_ back there as well, and poorly to boot


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Tu quoque is "you also"- acting like you did nothing wrong by claiming the opponent did it too.



Trump, nor I, participated in referenced cases.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 15, 2021)

I find it funny how the right keep banging on about their right to freedom of speech then their beloved cult leader goes and does this. 

Donald Trump has reportedly banned all mention of Richard Nixon in the White House.

Nixon was forced to resign the presidency in the wake of the Watergate scandal.

Mr Trump apparently subjected one adviser to an expletive-laden tirade and forbade them from bringing up the disgraced ex-president ever again.

CNN reported that it began with a casual conversation about whether Mr Trump might resign before 20 January.


Yep what happened to freedom of speach.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> you literally have "we believe in election fraud" in your sig, linking to a website entirely composed of single-eyewitness claims or anecdotes (both very, very unreliable) that, even if it was actually all true (which it is demonstrably not), wouldn't even provide a THIRD of the victory margin
> 
> also, he called your ARGUMENT sad
> which it is
> ...



tu quoque


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You want to quote me on that, so thay we can have access to context?


Sure.


tabzer said:


> Every election, since JFK, has probably been rigged.





tabzer said:


> I am in the camp that thinks it is probably rigged


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Trump, nor I, participated in referenced cases.


Well, we didn't blatantly try to (illegally and fraudulently) prevent votes from being counted.
You still have no reliable evidence of fraud, while we literally just have quotes and shit of Trump and his supporters chanting "stop the count" and actively protesting at vote-counting locations.



tabzer said:


> tu quoque


you do realize that just saying the words in Latin, not bothering to use it as a point of "this is the fallacy you are making" or anything, doesn't make you sound any smarter or your argument any more valid, right?
knowing what you're actually saying when you use Latin terms for logical fallacies is the difference between actually having a decent point and spouting meaningless "lorem ipsum" garbage in an attempt to look smarter.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Sure.



Ok.  So I thought this election was probably rigged, despite me disagreeing with you on the premise that there was no evidence--as I have always asserted the existence of evidence.  Ignoring the fact that we are in the present where more information is becoming available, please quote the part where I said that the election was probably rigged despite evidence.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I guess 1000s


Ay up, first it was 1000, now it's thousands? Keep to the story mate.

And yes, in a country of 330 million people, it's hardly a stretch of the imagination that 1000 of them are brain dead enough to fabricate testimonies.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Ay up, first it was 1000, now it's thousands? Keep to the story mate.
> 
> And yes, in a country of 330 million people, it's hardly a stretch of the imagination that 1000 of them are brain dead enough to fabricate testimonies.



Though Im fuxing around... Imagine a country that could have all of its citizens interested in politics.  That might give politics some sort of reputability.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> despite me disagreeing with you on the premise that there was no evidence--as I have always asserted the existence of evidence.


No evidence has been presented that there was widespread election fraud. Asserting the existence of evidence when no evidence has been presented is part of how you don't care about truth. A proper skeptic cannot accept claims as true or probably true in the absence of evidence.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> No evidence has been presented that there was widespread election fraud. Asserting the existence of evidence when no evidence has been presented is part of how you don't care about truth. A proper skeptic cannot accept claims as true or probably true in the absence of evidence.



There's evidence.  However, there is no compelling reason why I should believe you.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Ok.  So I thought this election was probably rigged, despite me disagreeing with you on the premise that there was no evidence--as I have always asserted the existence of evidence.  Ignoring the fact that we are in the present where more information is becoming available, please quote the part where I said that the election was probably rigged despite evidence.


You remind me of creationists; trying to ignore requests of hard evidence and trying but epically failing to 'prove' your view by using logic games. No matter how many logic games you try to play, you still can't solve the problem of there being *no credible hard evidence *to suggest *widescale, coordinated election fraud in the 2020 elections*. It doesn't matter if you think every election since JFK has been rigged and just by pure probability we should assume that Biden actually lost and let Trump wreck the place for 4 more years, that does fuck all to prove that it's actually happening.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> There's evidence.  However, there is no compelling reason why I should believe you.


If you are going to claim there is evidence of widespread election fraud, the burden of proof is on you to provide it.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Tbh the expectation of 1 million witnesses is very ridiculous.


That's my point. Eyewitness testimony alone can't possibly seek to prove something of this scale.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> Ok come down sparky...
> The convo was about the seditious coup rioters and if they can be charged with sedition or treason( if payments were from foreign entities) The convo was not about the President... unless You’re  categorizing him as a rioter or the money man.


No, you insinuated that Trump was the one who gave MAGA degenerates the cryptic payment, and thus makes it treason, if I'm correct?


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> There's evidence.  However, there is no compelling reason why I should believe you.


We mean credible evidence.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> You remind me of creationists; trying to ignore requests of hard evidence and trying but epically failing to 'prove' your view by using logic games. No matter how many logic games you try to play, you still can't solve the problem of there being *no credible hard evidence *to suggest *widescale, coordinated election fraud in the 2020 elections*. It doesn't matter if you think every election since JFK has been rigged and just by pure probability we should assume that Biden actually lost and let Trump wreck the place for 4 more years, that does fuck all to prove that it's actually happening.


First, the burden of the proof is that there is a legitimate election.  That's like a god for democracy, yet I am expected to believe in it because of whatever is defined as "status quo"?

Second hard evidence isn't properly defined by you as for whatever was considered "hard evidence" for the past 100 years is no longer hard evidence. The current time.  Seeing as video isn't enough, evidence cannot logically exist.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> First, the burden of the proof is that there is a legitimate election.  That's like a god for democracy, yet I am expected to believe in it because of whatever is defined as "status quo"?
> 
> Second hard evidence isn't properly defined by you as for whatever was considered "hard evidence" for the past 100 years is no longer hard evidence. The current time.  Seeing as video isn't enough, evidence cannot logically exist.


No you doughnut, you are the one making the claim that the election was rigged, so it's up to you to *prove* that this is the case. I bet you're a creationist as well, right? Because you're using the exact same logic they do.

Your second paragraph is just more logic games nonsense. What the standard of proof was 100 years ago has fuck all relevance to this conversation, so I'm not sure why it's even being brought up. Yes I've seen the videos, but they are _single_ instances of possible foul play. What you and other trumptards are claiming is *widescale, coordinated *rigging. All the other stuff about mail ballots is unsubstantiated speculation that was stirred by none other than Trumpie himself. You're falling for his shit; HE'S the one who started spreading rumours about mail ballots being tampered with.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> No, you insinuated that Trump was the one who gave MAGA degenerates the cryptic payment, and thus makes it treason, if I'm correct?





djpannda said:


> Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account
> lol looks like Treason is possible!!!!





djpannda said:


> Treason is "helping another country to overthrow the government "


....There


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ....heres some Preparation H for that "HURT" you got


Right, I misread. There's no need to be a knobhead about it.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> First, the burden of the proof is that there is a legitimate election.  That's like a god for democracy, yet I am expected to believe in it because of whatever is defined as "status quo"?
> 
> Second hard evidence isn't properly defined by you as for whatever was considered "hard evidence" for the past 100 years is no longer hard evidence. The current time.  Seeing as video isn't enough, evidence cannot logically exist.


What you've done here is a shifting of the burden of proof fallacy. You are the one who has made the positive claim, and it must be demonstrated with evidence. You made the claim that there was "probably" widespread election fraud, and that is the positive claim that needs to be demonstrated.

If I made the claim that you, tabzer, are a pedophile, I don't get to make that claim baselessly. I would have the burden of proof. By your standards, however, the burden of proof would be on you to prove you're not a pedophile, and we should all believe you are "probably" a pedophile until then. That would be absurd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

What may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence. If you are going to assert there was widespread election fraud without evidence, we can dismiss your claim without evidence.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Right, I misread. There's no need to be a knobhead about it.


Sorry, now is the time for "Unity"


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Ay up, first it was 1000, now it's thousands? Keep to the story mate.
> 
> And yes, in a country of 330 million people, it's hardly a stretch of the imagination that 1000 of them are brain dead enough to fabricate testimonies.


Considering Trump's base is bordering on a cult at this point, it's not that much of a stretch that _*millions*_ would lie straight out of their ass. After all, _*Trump*_ is their role model...
Oh wait, they don't even have anywhere near THAT much "evidence"!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2021)

I'm done for now.  I'll be back later when things get interesting. BTW, if you want to prop up a puppet show as being in the interest of everyone it's really up to you to convince me and everyone else.

The whole political system is a cult wars situation.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm done for now.  I'll be back later when things get interesting. BTW, if you want to prop up a puppet show as being in the interest of everyone it's really up to you to convince me and everyone else.
> 
> The whole political system is a cult wars situation.


Each time you refused to substantiate your claims of widespread voter fraud with evidence was a metaphorical white flag of surrender, so we are in agreement that you made things uninteresting, and it's not surprising you had to throw your hands up and walk away.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm done for now.  I'll be back later when things get interesting. BTW, if you want to prop up a puppet show as being in the interest of everyone it's really up to you to convince me and everyone else.
> 
> The whole political system is a cult wars situation.


lol ok

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> Sorry, now is the time for "Unity"


No worries

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Each time you refused to substantiate your claims of widespread voter fraud with evidence was a metaphorical white flag of surrender, so we are in agreement that you made things uninteresting, and it's not surprising you had to throw your hands up and walk away.


It really is creationist logic isn't it? 'No, you prove to me that god doesn't exist and science is real and yadda yadda yadda'


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

*White House officials blame Rudy Giuliani for both of Trump's impeachments, New York Times report says*
they look hungry


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> 1000 witnesses is not good evidence. There's several hundred thousand Trumptards, so to clear any likelihood of false testimony, you would need at least 1 million witnesses for something like this.
> 
> Witness statements should not be considered evidence of anything unless they can fit two criteria:
> 
> ...



I believe your side of this because you're fair and balanced and use words like Trumptards, I'd be stupid not too.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I believe your side of this because you're fair and balanced and use words like Trumptards, I'd be stupid not too.


I am fair and balanced. Earlier in this thread I literally said 'I think at the time Trump was still the better option over Hillary in 2016', expressed how much of a shitty person I think she is, and called Biden, I quote, 'a demented old retard', because he is not much better than Trump, politically speaking. He will very likely be a 3rd term Obama and get nothing done. Get your head out of your arse before claiming bias because I said a few naughy words, you poor little snowflake.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I am fair and balanced. Earlier in this thread I literally said 'I think at the time Trump was still the better option over Hillary in 2016', expressed how much of a shitty person I think she is, and called Biden, I quote, 'a demented old retard', because he is not much better than Trump, politically speaking. He will very likely be a 3rd term Obama and get nothing done. Get your head out of your arse before claiming bias because I said a few naughy words, you poor little snowflake.


For calling us "snowflakes" and whatnot when we try to prevent hate speech and bigotry, they sure do love the tone argument! A classic way to shut your opponent up by making it seem as if their very act of arguing with you is their problem, while also not having to prove your point whatsoever!


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 15, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I am fair and balanced. Earlier in this thread I literally said 'I think at the time Trump was still the better option over Hillary in 2016', expressed how much of a shitty person I think she is, and called Biden, I quote, 'a demented old retard', because he is not much better than Trump, politically speaking. He will very likely be a 3rd term Obama and get nothing done. Get your head out of your arse before claiming bias because I said a few naughy words, you poor little snowflake.



Calling somebody a Trumptard despite knowing absolutely nothing about them makes you bias. Stating he was better than Hilary has absolutely no reflection on this currect election. You're talking shit, I've also not acted like a snowflake. I didn't complain you said it, I said you're bias. There's a difference, learn the meaning of words.



Plasmaster09 said:


> For calling us "snowflakes" and whatnot when we try to prevent hate speech and bigotry, they sure do love the tone argument! A classic way to shut your opponent up by making it seem as if their very act of arguing with you is their problem, while also not having to prove your point whatsoever!



Well you see the problem is who decides what's hate speech, you? Are you the arbiter, are you the speech police? Do you see where I'm going with this. There's a man who plays for Manchester United who recently shared a post with the word 'negrito' on it. He's called Edison Cavani, He's Uruguarian. He was banned for 3 days and called racist. Turns out 'negrito' was his friends nickname his WHOLE life. Not only this but It's a common greeting in Uruguay and there was no racial overtones at all. It's his culture, so was that hate speech? Who draws the line. Do you see the problem, just because you consider something 'hate speech' doesn't make it so.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm done for now.  I'll be back later when things get interesting. BTW, if you want to prop up a puppet show as being in the interest of everyone it's really up to you to convince me and everyone else.
> 
> The whole political system is a cult wars situation.


You've still yet to provide any actual proof outside of "Dude trust me." Hell, thus far no one in the "Mass voter fraud" cramp has providing anymore more than just attacking people for asking or giving weak sauce posts like "1000 witnesses" and nothing to actually prove why these "witnesses" should be trusted. In short, I don't think you have any decent sources and your constant dancing around the issue and shifting the burden of proof is more than proof of that.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Calling somebody a Trumptard despite knowing absolutely nothing about them makes you bias. Stating he was better than Hilary has absolutely no reflection on this currect election. You're talking shit, I've also not acted like a snowflake. I didn't complain you said it, I said you're bias. There's a difference, learn the meaning of words.
> 
> 
> 
> Well you see the problem is who decides what's hate speech, you? Are you the arbiter, are you the speech police? Do you see where I'm going with this. There's a man who plays for Manchester United who recently shared a post with the word 'negrito' on it. He's called Edison Cavani, He's Uruguarian. He was banned for 3 days and called racist. Turns out 'negrito' was his friends nickname his WHOLE life. Not only this but It's a common greeting in Uruguay and there was no racial overtones at all. It's his culture, so was that hate speech? Who draws the line. Do you see the problem, just because you consider something 'hate speech' doesn't make it so.


First off, the guy you accused of bias is so aggressively centrist that it honestly pisses me off a little (though I won't bother clashing with him on this because we're too busy fighting the common foe that is misinformation)- so he was quite possibly one of the worst people to try to No True Scotsman out of the argument. (So calling someone a "Trumptard" for spouting election misinformation is too biased to make a valid point, but calling someone a libtard- because I bet there's a good 90% chance you've done that at least once- for fact-checking said misinformation... isn't?) It's a transparent fallacious attempt to cry "BIASED!" so that you don't have to actually prove your point, and we all know it. (Also, I may not like its use either, but "Trumptard" is a term generally used exclusively to those stupid enough to cry foul on the election- similar to "voteflake"- so it provides its own descriptor.)
Secondly... hate speech does actually have a definition. According to Cambridge, hate speech is "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation". Context matters, but the anecdotal example you gave was a result of people not knowing said context. The stuff Trump and his supporters have said... is NOT a result of improper contextualization, and is just a result of them being bigots. All the bans being dished out to major Trumpers and accounts tied to QAnon isn't some Orwellian "Big Brother decides what you're allowed to say" situation, it's the equivalent of being forcibly removed from a store because you were screaming obscenities and pissing on items as well as other customers.
Get out of here with your elementary-school-level arguments, and come back when you can provide hard evidence instead of throwing fallacies around at random trying to "disqualify" people from the discussion.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 15, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> First off, the guy you accused of bias is so aggressively centrist that it honestly pisses me off a little (though I won't bother clashing with him on this because we're too busy fighting the common foe that is misinformation)- so he was quite possibly one of the worst people to try to No True Scotsman out of the argument. (So calling someone a "Trumptard" for spouting election misinformation is too biased to make a valid point, but calling someone a libtard- because I bet there's a good 90% chance you've done that at least once- for fact-checking said misinformation... isn't?) It's a transparent fallacious attempt to cry "BIASED!" so that you don't have to actually prove your point, and we all know it. (Also, I may not like its use either, but "Trumptard" is a term generally used exclusively to those stupid enough to cry foul on the election- similar to "voteflake"- so it provides its own descriptor.)
> Secondly... hate speech does actually have a definition. According to Cambridge, hate speech is "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation". Context matters, but the anecdotal example you gave was a result of people not knowing said context. The stuff Trump and his supporters have said... is NOT a result of improper contextualization, and is just a result of them being bigots. All the bans being dished out to major Trumpers and accounts tied to QAnon isn't some Orwellian "Big Brother decides what you're allowed to say" situation, it's the equivalent of being forcibly removed from a store because you were screaming obscenities and pissing on items as well as other customers.
> Get out of here with your elementary-school-level arguments, and come back when you can provide hard evidence instead of throwing fallacies around at random trying to "disqualify" people from the discussion.



Now define racism. Sorry I'll leave, didn't realise I wasn't allowed to debate, you're the boss.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 15, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Now define racism. Sorry I'll leave, didn't realise I wasn't allowed to debate, you're the boss.


Oh, you're allowed to debate. Just debate properly.
Also, according to Oxford Languages, racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized." Not really that hard to understand.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 15, 2021)

well now things are getting even scarier according to prosecutors there intent was clear it wasn't just to storm the capital it was to kill elected officals, can we charge these bastards with treason now? maybe expedite the death penalty convictions to make sure trump doesn't pardon?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 15, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Now define racism.


its not that hard  


shamzie said:


> Now define racism.


see not hard


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 15, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> First off, the guy you accused of bias is so aggressively centrist that it honestly pisses me off a little (though I won't bother clashing with him on this because we're too busy fighting the common foe that is misinformation)- so he was quite possibly one of the worst people to try to No True Scotsman out of the argument. (So calling someone a "Trumptard" for spouting election misinformation is too biased to make a valid point, but calling someone a libtard- because I bet there's a good 90% chance you've done that at least once- for fact-checking said misinformation... isn't?) It's a transparent fallacious attempt to cry "BIASED!" so that you don't have to actually prove your point, and we all know it. (Also, I may not like its use either, but "Trumptard" is a term generally used exclusively to those stupid enough to cry foul on the election- similar to "voteflake"- so it provides its own descriptor.)
> Secondly... hate speech does actually have a definition. According to Cambridge, hate speech is "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation". Context matters, but the anecdotal example you gave was a result of people not knowing said context. The stuff Trump and his supporters have said... is NOT a result of improper contextualization, and is just a result of them being bigots. All the bans being dished out to major Trumpers and accounts tied to QAnon isn't some Orwellian "Big Brother decides what you're allowed to say" situation, it's the equivalent of being forcibly removed from a store because you were screaming obscenities and pissing on items as well as other customers.
> Get out of here with your elementary-school-level arguments, and come back when you can provide hard evidence instead of throwing fallacies around at random trying to "disqualify" people from the discussion.


It's funny that he has a problem with the term 'Trumptard' when you just know these are the kind of people that called others 'libtards' and 'snowflakes' back when it was cool to troll Hillary supporters; I believe this guy has even called someone a libtard on this thread. Now that the tables are turned and Trumptards are getting memed, it's suddenly not ok to insult Trump supporters and is indicative of bias. I find it absolutely hilarious; go back and look through half of the Trumptards' arguments. If you simply replace 'Trump' with 'Hillary', 'Democrat' with 'Republican' and 'Election Rigging' with 'Russia', it's identical to the kind of arguments that these *same people *would have memed Hillary apologists for back in 2016-17. The lack of self-awareness in these people is astounding.



shamzie said:


> Calling somebody a Trumptard despite knowing absolutely nothing about them makes you bias


Take this one for example. If a Hillary apologist said:

"Calling somebody a Libtard despite knowing absolutely nothing about them makes you bias"

Back in 2016 or 2017, this same muppet would have undoubtely memed the shit out of it, because it is a ridiculous argument. But now the Trumptards are being the snowflakes.

Two sides of the same coin, people.


----------



## IncredulousP (Jan 15, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Sorry, now is the time for "Unity"


I'm more of an unreal engine guy.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 15, 2021)

IncredulousP said:


> I'm more of an unreal engine guy.


why can't we have a haha reaction like facebook does? seems like a great jab/sarcastic joke for 2021

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

btw i wrote this on fb (please don't get triggered) 
I'm much smarter than trump in many ways but the major one is I'm not the idiot that got banned from facebook/twitter for life


----------



## mikefor20 (Jan 15, 2021)

Trumptards must be retarded to keep defending this guy.  How are they offended by the term? It's like calling the sky blue. 


 It is what it is!


----------



## smf (Jan 15, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Well you see the problem is who decides what's hate speech, you?



The UN?

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/UN Strategy and Plan of Action on Hate Speech 18 June SYNOPSIS.pdf

In the context of this document, the term hate speech is understood as any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality, race, colour, descent, gender or other identity factor. This is often rooted in, and generates intolerance and hatred and, in certain contexts, can be demeaning and divisive.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 16, 2021)

*American Thinker Issues Groveling Apology to Dominion Voting Systems For ‘Completely False’*

oh and the famous “ColonelTPerez” From Parler that was calling for a civil war is really Troy Anthony Smocks, 58, of Dallas, Texas never served in the military one day of his life. I believed he is a janitor.

I love how the MAGA   got hoodwinked for months and its being "Brought to light" in just days


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *American Thinker Issues Groveling Apology to Dominion Voting Systems For ‘Completely False’*
> 
> oh and the famous “ColonelTPerez” From Parler that was calling for a civil war is really Troy Anthony Smocks, 58, of Dallas, Texas never served in the military one day of his life. I believed he is a janitor.
> 
> I love how the MAGA   got hoodwinked for months and its being "Brought to light" in just days


Conspiracy peddling is all fun and games until someone gets sued.  They unintentionally summoned the girl and her dragon to their doorstep, so they took thy knee faster than Colin Kaepernick.  So much irony there even Alanis Morissette can appreciate.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 16, 2021)

Let's sic the dragons on someone.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 16, 2021)

let me say this the death penalty is showing mercy I feel these traitors should be life in prison w/o parole wetting their pants,fraid of getting raped or killed by other inmates that is what they deserve not death


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 16, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> let me say this the death penalty is showing mercy I feel these traitors should be life in prison w/o parole wetting their pants,fraid of getting raped or killed by other inmates that is what they deserve not death


okay that's a bit too far
and arguably chucking them in a place full of other criminals and crazies is a terrible idea since it'll let them just keep on circlejerking conspiracies to each other
instead, make it so that they're put in prison and things are set up so that they _*never interact with or even see each other-*_ if their only human contact is the prison staff and guards, there's nobody that'll confirm their bullshit


----------



## rensenware (Jan 16, 2021)

All nonsense, baseless conspiracy theories aside, Dominion voting systems really should be replaced. I don't understand why we're not using a more open, better tested solution instead of that proprietary crap.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 16, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> All nonsense, baseless conspiracy theories aside, Dominion voting systems really should be replaced. I don't understand why we're not using a more open, better tested solution instead of that proprietary crap.


Open... maybe, though it's hard to let the average citizen see everything as it's happening without also letting them ALTER (read: the type of shit Trumpers accuse Democrats of while actively trying to do it or worse) it as it's happening.
Better tested... _well, this is certainly a pretty good test-_ and it seems Dominion is pretty damn secure.


----------



## rensenware (Jan 16, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Open... maybe, though it's hard to let the average citizen see everything as it's happening without also letting them ALTER (read: the type of shit Trumpers accuse Democrats of while actively trying to do it or worse) it as it's happening.
> Better tested... _well, this is certainly a pretty good test-_ and it seems Dominion is pretty damn secure.


I'm talking open as in source code and development.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 16, 2021)

jupitteer said:


> I'm talking open as in source code and development.


Oh, fair point. Open-source voting coding would be nice, as an easy way to prove there's no internal manipulation. (Though in terms of development, there'd have to be some kind of "review changes before implementing" system so that people can't sneak in bullshit.)


----------



## rensenware (Jan 16, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Oh, fair point. Open-source voting coding would be nice, as an easy way to prove there's no internal manipulation. (Though in terms of development, there'd have to be some kind of "review changes before implementing" system so that people can't sneak in bullshit.)


Of course there would be, just like every other libre project. It would result in a more secure and more trustworthy voting system, and I think it's one of the easiest fronts to begin to convince people to switch some of our infrastructure to non-proprietary software.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 16, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> okay that's a bit too far
> and arguably chucking them in a place full of other criminals and crazies is a terrible idea since it'll let them just keep on circlejerking conspiracies to each other
> instead, make it so that they're put in prison and things are set up so that they _*never interact with or even see each other-*_ if their only human contact is the prison staff and guards, there's nobody that'll confirm their bullshit


a bit too far?? these are terrorist as much as ISIS and the Taliban they should be shipped to Guananimo bay if that was still an option they pose a risk


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 16, 2021)

RIGGED!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 16, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> RIGGED!


Well yeah, trying to prevent the counting of thousands of completely legitimate and legal votes just because they're for Biden is a pretty shameless rigging of the election.
Random, individual, anecdotal cases of alleged election fraud with zero credible evidence to prove anything widespread, however, is not.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So it's okay to impeach Trump over inciting violence when the actual violence was tame compared to the BLM Protests.


One group intended to kill (terrorists at the capital. Yes I'll refer to them as terrorists from now on. You don't casually place bombs, and they were looking for the speaker of the house, to either kill her or take hostage. Along with AOC. )
While another group just wants to no longer be shot by cops, or be brutalized.
In other words, false dichotomy.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Boesy said:


> Also, I read that the amount of questions to have the U.S. citizenship increased from 10 to 20 and I agree with that. People should know the country's history if they want to join.


Actually, if you read those questions, quite a few of them are actually historically in accurate or missing things intentionally.
For example, when they ask what is protected by the first amendment (name one thing), peaceful assembly is missing. There is other situations where if you studied you would get it wrong, even though it is written.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> You're trying to compare almost a year worth of riots that resulted in hundreds of buildings being burned to the ground, hundreds of people assaulted, maimed and killed to a couple hundred people breaking into a single building and ransacking offices?


so... your defending people at the capital who had intent to kill?
_I see_
So.... burning down buildings, is somehow worse than, idk. trespassing into the captial, breaking into where the federal government mostly functions, expressly telling others to find AOC, speaker of the house, or saying Mike Pence should die....
_that checks out *yup I guess burning buildings is now equivalent to murder people in federal power*_

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh, and it's not like you know, they didn't have a goal, their goal was to overthrow the election they lost. Reinstating Trump.
I'll pass on authoritarianism thank you very much.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> As far as I know Trump hasn't made people vanish due to them criticizing him, his policies or decisions.


Secret police in portland anyone? You know, unnamed federal officers from home land security taking people into unmarked vehicles.
Hell, I believe if I'm not mistakened, John Boltons book (not a good guy. Just happened to dump info)
Wrote into his book that Trump wanted news reporters and people of the left either arrested or executed.
Not a dictator move at all.
anyways, I'm pretty sure BLM protestors have many things to say about Trump's current polices.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Well yeah, trying to prevent the counting of thousands of completely legitimate and legal votes just because they're for Biden is a pretty shameless rigging of the election.
> Random, individual, anecdotal cases of alleged election fraud with zero credible evidence to prove anything widespread, however, is not.



That's not what they were trying to do though? They were trying to stop votes sent after the deadline, not postmarked properly, and not verified or that didn't have a witness inspect them from being counted.

And despite the constant parroting their isn't any evidence there's actually tons.l You just don't care or don't want to see it. In one state alone they had a small investigation and found 100,000 people voted twice for example. Genuine fraud and also incompetence.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 17, 2021)

*Donald Trump's Far-Right Extremist Army Has Turned On HiM*

guess Donny wasn’t racist Enough...


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> That's not what they were trying to do though? They were trying to stop votes sent after the deadline, not postmarked properly, and not verified or that didn't have a witness inspect them from being counted.
> 
> And despite the constant parroting their isn't any evidence there's actually tons.l You just don't care or don't want to see it. In one state alone they had a small investigation and found 100,000 people voted twice for example. Genuine fraud and also incompetence.


First off, the votes they tried to prevent weren't any of what you're saying. They didn't give a shit. They were trying to stop places from counting votes entirely, which would have just resulted in a truckload of perfectly legitimate mail-in votes being blocked- taking into account the fact Trump told his supporters to vote in person while Democrats almost all voted by mail (to avoid Covid risk as well as the very suppression that Trump supporters would attempt anyway), it's probably the most blatant in-your-face form of attempted election rigging and voter suppression in US history.

Second off, you're conflating evidence with _reliable_ evidence. There is tons, but there's also technically tons of points of 'evidence' for just about any shitty conspiracy theory. Individual anecdotes without any form of additional backup *do not count as valid evidence,* because they can be made up on a whim by quite literally anyone. And seriously? One state, _small_ investigation, 100k fraudulent votes? _*Prove it.*_ If such a thing happened, you better link to it- either it's an important thing to take note of and inform people about, or (more likely) it's another example of alleged fraud claims pulled directly from a ridiculous, retrograde Republican's retentive rectum.

(Oh, and third off, there*.)


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

This terrorist had the intention if killing sacred political leaders.  She surrendered her guns at the checkpoint, but she still has her hands!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> View attachment 242157
> 
> This terrorist had the intention if killing sacred political leaders.  She surrendered her guns at the checkpoint, but she still has her hands!


Considering she appears elderly, hopefully she isn't tech-literate enough to use said hands to spew half-assed trivialities claiming to be "epick Libtard-kiling sattire" (sic) as you display your propensity for right now.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> View attachment 242157
> 
> This terrorist had the intention if killing sacred political leaders.  She surrendered her guns at the checkpoint, but she still has her hands!


... nice... I can see you don't fact check .. like most of the MAGA ....
This lady took part of a protest in Kansas capitol, she was not in or took part of the Attempted COUP in the US Capitol ..
https://percolately.com/capitol-meemaw-not-at-riot/
EDIT: Kansas not Wisconsin


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ... nice... I can see you don't fact check .. like most of the MAGA ....
> This lady took part of a protest in Kansas capitol, she was not in or took part of the Attempted COUP in the US Capitol ..
> https://percolately.com/capitol-meemaw-not-at-riot/
> EDIT: Kansas not Wisconsin


The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry... and so the _worst _laid plans of idiots and insurrectionists do as well. Every single attempt to either portray the Capitol riot as "calm" or "peaceful" or to blame it on antifa has failed miserably, so it's not surprising this too is bullshit.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> And despite the constant parroting their isn't any evidence there's actually tons.l You just don't care or don't want to see it.


None of this "evidence" met the standard of proof even for Trump-appointed judges.  It's at that point you should've realized that you were being played for a fool, but apparently that's when you let the sunk cost fallacy dominate your thought process instead.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 17, 2021)

As far as I know judges do not look at evidence before a case. This is done during a case. A court can deny opening a case if it believes it is none of their business (see Supreme Court).


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As far as I know judges do not look at evidence before a case. This is done during a case. A court can deny opening a case if it believes it is none of their business (see Supreme Court).


thing is that in the 60 or so cases, they were all actually opened and held and the judges did look at the "evidence"... but it was all bullshit, which is why Trump lost all but one of them


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> RIGGED!


Hard evidence?


Purple_Shyguy said:


> And despite the constant parroting their isn't any evidence there's actually tons.l You just don't care or don't want to see it. In one state alone they had a small investigation and found 100,000 people voted twice for example. Genuine fraud and also incompetence.


But yet no one who’s claimed the election was rigged has provided any substantial amount of evidence  kind of weird how all of the evidence present either doesn’t hold up mathematically or is flimsy as fuck


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ... nice... I can see you don't fact check .. like most of the MAGA ....
> This lady took part of a protest in Kansas capitol, she was not in or took part of the Attempted COUP in the US Capitol ..
> https://percolately.com/capitol-meemaw-not-at-riot/
> EDIT: Kansas not Wisconsin




Nice fact check! These MAGAts will just believe anything. Lol


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> That's not what they were trying to do though? They were trying to stop votes sent after the deadline, not postmarked properly, and not verified or that didn't have a witness inspect them from being counted.
> 
> And despite the constant parroting their isn't any evidence there's actually tons.l You just don't care or don't want to see it. In one state alone they had a small investigation and found 100,000 people voted twice for example. Genuine fraud and also incompetence.


I'll reiterate:

Even if your special 2 million votes were rigged, Biden won by over 7 million, so Biden still won the election legitimately. So really it makes fuck all difference if the election was rigged or not. At this point it's just Trump having no regard for democracy and trying to strongman his way into a second term regardless of the outcome of the election, and morons like you are falling for it. I honestly don't understand how so many Americans don't see what Trump is doing here. Who was the first person to spread rumours about the election being rigged? Trump. Who was the first person to stir the pot about mail ballots? Trump. He has manufactured these dramas and you and all the other Trumptards have fallen for it. The number of old anti-SJW channels I unsubbed from because they were parroting nonsense about the election being rigged is surprisingly high, and it has essentially cleared my subscription feed of that genre, and I doubt I will ever go near it again, because it's only been in the past 6 months that I've seen how toxic and ignorant that crowd is. The memes were fun and I still agree about everything they said regarding SJWs and other related crowds back in 2016-18, but they have become just as dogmatic and idiotic as SJWs were, all parroting the same bullshit, becoming increasingly more right wing and extreme and attacking people and ideas closer and closer to the centre and possibly the worst of all, being a hive-mind. You and others who are so intent on believing this bullshit about the election being rigged need to open your eyes to what's going on.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'll reiterate:
> 
> Even if your special 2 million votes were rigged, Biden won by over 7 million, so Biden still won the election legitimately. So really it makes fuck all difference if the election was rigged or not. At this point it's just Trump having no regard for democracy and trying to strongman his way into a second term regardless of the outcome of the election, and morons like you are falling for it. I honestly don't understand how so many Americans don't see what Trump is doing here. Who was the first person to spread rumours about the election being rigged? Trump. Who was the first person to stir the pot about mail ballots? Trump. He has manufactured these dramas and you and all the other Trumptards have fallen for it. The number of old anti-SJW channels I unsubbed from because they were parroting nonsense about the election being rigged is surprisingly high, and it has essentially cleared my subscription feed of that genre, and I doubt I will ever go near it again, because it's only been in the past 6 months that I've seen how toxic and ignorant that crowd is. The memes were fun and I still agree about everything they said regarding SJWs and other related crowds back in 2016-18, but they have become just as dogmatic and idiotic as SJWs were, all parroting the same bullshit, becoming increasingly more right wing and extreme and attacking people and ideas closer and closer to the centre and possibly the worst of all, being a hive-mind. You and others who are so intent on believing this bullshit about the election being rigged need to open your eyes to what's going on.


Hot damn.
You know the Republicans are going too far when it *knocks a centrist out of stable political orbit. *


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'll reiterate:
> 
> Even if your special 2 million votes were rigged, Biden won by over 7 million, so Biden still won the election legitimately. So really it makes fuck all difference if the election was rigged or not. At this point it's just Trump having no regard for democracy and trying to strongman his way into a second term regardless of the outcome of the election, and morons like you are falling for it. I honestly don't understand how so many Americans don't see what Trump is doing here. Who was the first person to spread rumours about the election being rigged? Trump. Who was the first person to stir the pot about mail ballots? Trump. He has manufactured these dramas and you and all the other Trumptards have fallen for it. The number of old anti-SJW channels I unsubbed from because they were parroting nonsense about the election being rigged is surprisingly high, and it has essentially cleared my subscription feed of that genre, and I doubt I will ever go near it again, because it's only been in the past 6 months that I've seen how toxic and ignorant that crowd is. The memes were fun and I still agree about everything they said regarding SJWs and other related crowds back in 2016-18, but they have become just as dogmatic and idiotic as SJWs were, all parroting the same bullshit, becoming increasingly more right wing and extreme and attacking people and ideas closer and closer to the centre and possibly the worst of all, being a hive-mind. You and others who are so intent on believing this bullshit about the election being rigged need to open your eyes to what's going on.



The popular vote does not decide the president of the United states. Trump got less votes than Hillary in 2016.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> First off, the votes they tried to prevent weren't any of what you're saying. They didn't give a shit. They were trying to stop places from counting votes entirely, which would have just resulted in a truckload of perfectly legitimate mail-in votes being blocked- taking into account the fact Trump told his supporters to vote in person while Democrats almost all voted by mail (to avoid Covid risk as well as the very suppression that Trump supporters would attempt anyway), it's probably the most blatant in-your-face form of attempted election rigging and voter suppression in US history.
> 
> Second off, you're conflating evidence with _reliable_ evidence. There is tons, but there's also technically tons of points of 'evidence' for just about any shitty conspiracy theory. Individual anecdotes without any form of additional backup *do not count as valid evidence,* because they can be made up on a whim by quite literally anyone. And seriously? One state, _small_ investigation, 100k fraudulent votes? _*Prove it.*_ If such a thing happened, you better link to it- either it's an important thing to take note of and inform people about, or (more likely) it's another example of alleged fraud claims pulled directly from a ridiculous, retrograde Republican's retentive rectum.
> 
> (Oh, and third off, there*.)


Well the problem about you people crying about no evidence and "prove it" is that the Biden campaign literally blocks any and all investigations that would look into the election and gather evidence.

it's a little hard to gather evidence when you're blocked from investigating don't you think?

"There's no evidence!"
"Can we investigate?"
"No."


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> The popular vote does not decide the president of the United states. Trump got less votes than Hillary in 2016.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Well, at least you admit Trump lost the popular vote then as he did now. Most Trumpnuts won't even accept that!
Also... the Biden campaign doesn't do SHIT. They haven't blocked investigations, let alone ALL investigations. There have BEEN investigations, on top of Trump's numerous sore-loser lawsuits- and whaddya know? Turns out *things are legit!*


----------



## djpannda (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> The popular vote does not decide the president of the United states. Trump got less votes than Hillary in 2016.


Yes 306 electoral does


Purple_Shyguy said:


> Well the problem about you people crying about no evidence and "prove it" is that the Biden campaign literally blocks any and all investigations that would look into the election and gather evidence.
> 
> it's a little hard to gather evidence when you're blocked from investigating don't you think?
> 
> ...


Love how fake American you try to be because a Real American knows phrases like "burden of *proof*" and "presumption  of innocence.""

 Not *“I lost, so let me find something wrong“*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Well the problem about you people crying about no evidence and "prove it" is that the Biden campaign literally blocks any and all investigations that would look into the election and gather evidence.


The Biden campaign doesn't block "any and all investigations."


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Not *“I lost, so let me find something wrong“*


Oh you mean like Russian hacking?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Oh you mean like Russian hacking?


Russia demonstrably meddled in the 2016 election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

I don't think Trump "manufactured" the idea of rigged elections.  He's using the consensus that already agrees to the existence of them as leverage to gain favor with his base.  Trump is not as much of an inventor as he is a utilizer. 

I personally have trouble why people believe that the election was not rigged.


Plasmaster09 said:


> Well, at least you admit Trump lost the popular vote then as he did now. Most Trumpnuts won't even accept that!
> Also... the Biden campaign doesn't do SHIT. They haven't blocked investigations, let alone ALL investigations. There have BEEN investigations, on top of Trump's numerous sore-loser lawsuits- and whaddya know? Turns out *things are legit!*



If "Trump" lost 60+ court cases then that same logic should apply that Biden jas been blocking/delaying investigation.  Though it isn't Trump or Biden actually doing these things.  One notable is that even though Trump disassociates with the Republican party at large, it doesn't stop people from attributing their efforts as being "for" him.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I don't think Trump "manufactured" the idea of rigged elections.  He's using the consensus that already agrees to the existence of them as leverage to gain favor with his base.  Trump is not as much of an inventor as he is a utilizer.


Trump 100% manufactured the idea of the 2020 election being a rigged election. There is no evidence that the 2020 election was a rigged election, and Trump was the first to baselessly assert it was rigged. And, he continues to do so.



tabzer said:


> I personally have trouble why people believe that the election was not rigged.


No evidence has been provided that the election was rigged. To assert the election was rigged or probably rigged in the absence of evidence is, objectively, foolish. It's also dangerous.



tabzer said:


> If "Trump" lost 60+ court cases then that same logic should apply that Biden jas been blocking/delaying investigation.  Though it isn't Trump or Biden actually doing these things.  One notable is that even though Trump disassociates with the Republican party at large, it doesn't stop people from attributing their efforts as being "for" him.


Biden has not blocked or delayed legitimate investigations into the 2020 election.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Russia demonstrably meddled in the 2016 election.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


Yeah well, people think Seth Rich was thrown under the bus to prop the narrative of Russian meddling.  Also, it should be acknowledged that a big part of how Russia "meddled" with the election is by exposing horrible truths about Clinton and the DNC.   The truth can me meddling.  Shame, that.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 17, 2021)

The Biden campaign doesn't even have the power to block anything. It's the courts who decided baseless rumors and conspiracies are not worth their time.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump 100% manufactured the idea of the 2020 election being a rigged election. There is no evidence that the 2020 election was a rigged election, and Trump was the first to baselessly assert it was rigged. And, he continues to do so.
> 
> 
> No evidence has been provided that the election was rigged. To assert the election was rigged or probably rigged in the absence of evidence is, objectively, foolish. It's also dangerous.
> ...



Everything you say is narrative.  Nothing about it is interested in the truth of the matter.  It's as if you assume that towing the DNC party line is the default condition of a human being.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Yeah well, people think Seth Rich was thrown under the bus to prop the narrative of Russian meddling.  Also, it should be acknowledged that a big part of how Russia "meddled" with the election is by exposing horrible truths about Clinton and the DNC.   The truth can me meddling.  Shame, that.


There is no excuse for a foreign power to meddle in our elections by, in part, hacking the emails of American citizens and selectively dumping the emails in misleading ways.

If you're going to defend Russian election meddling, all while baselessly claiming the 2020 election was rigged, you're a bigger political hack than I thought, and you should be laughed at so hard that you're effectively laughed off the forum. That's how embarrassed you should be.



tabzer said:


> Everything you say is narrative.  Nothing about it is interested in the truth of the matter.  It's as if you assume that towing the DNC party line is the default condition of a human being.


You accept the election was "probably" rigged despite lack of evidence, and you have just defended Russian meddling in the 2016 election. You do not care about truth, and you're an embarrassment.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no excuse for a foreign power to meddle in our elections by hacking the emails of American citizens and selectively dumping the emails in misleading ways.



Russia can say whatever they want.  But if they say something that is more honest than America's own politicians will admit, it makes America look like the embarrassment.

I also said that Seth Rich was widely believed to be the source, and not Russia.

I also said that there is evidence of a rigged election.  Let's not pretend that you are representing my claim faithfully.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Biden jas been blocking/delaying investigation



You are dumber than a glob of Vaseline and hair. You have zero evidence of that, and has already been pointed out, he is not even capable of that. He does not have that power.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You are dumber than a glob of Vaseline and hair. You have zero evidence of that, and has already been pointed out, he is not even capable of that. He does not have that power.


And you have zero evidence of Trump losing 60+ cases.  Case closed, goober.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Russia can say whatever they want.  But if they say something that is more honest than America's own politicians will admit, it makes America look like the embarrassment.


I suggest you educate yourself, because Russian meddling in the 2020 election wasn't limited to "Russia saying whatever they want." They hacked Americans, selectively dumped emails in misleading ways, and more. You're a political hack defending election meddling when it suits Republicans and decrying fake election meddling when it allegedly benefits Democrats. Delete your account and go away. Nobody is any better for having read your posts.



tabzer said:


> I also said that Seth Rich was widely believed to be the source, and not Russia.


Russia demonstrably meddled with the 2016 election. Nobody's interested in your conspiratorial nonsense, although I doubt anybody is surprised by it.



tabzer said:


> I also said that there is evidence of a rigged election.  Let's not pretend that you are representing my claim faithfully.


There is no evidence of the 2020 election having been a rigged election.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> The popular vote does not decide the president of the United states. Trump got less votes than Hillary in 2016.


Not what I'm talking about. 2 million votes dispersed throughout the country will not flip any states apart from maybe Georgia, but Biden isn't relying on Georgia anyway. He would still have 290 electoral college votes, ergo he still wins by 20.

Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?



tabzer said:


> I don't think Trump "manufactured" the idea of rigged elections. He's using the consensus that already agrees to the existence of them as leverage to gain favor with his base. Trump is not as much of an inventor as he is a utilizer.


It doesn't matter what you think. It's an objective fact that he was the first to yell 'STOP THE COUNT' on twitter, and was also the first to mention anything about mail ballots. As you've previously demonstrated though, you suffer from Creationist Fallacy so your claims are automatically true and what you think is more important than what any evidence says.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> the Biden campaign literally blocks any and all investigations that would look into the election and gather evidence


And how exactly is he meant to do that when he's not president yet?



Purple_Shyguy said:


> Oh you mean like Russian hacking?


So you agree that your 'election rigging' nonsense is as idiotic as the claim that Russia is the reason Trump won in 2016?*

*Note: I'm not denying that Russia attempted to intefere, but that inteference was not the reason for Trump's victory. I'm not gonna defend Russia though considering its complete lack of respect for democracy and human rights.



tabzer said:


> I personally have trouble why people believe that the election was not rigged


I personally have trouble with your thought process. The burden of proof is on *you *to prove the claim *you *are making. Again, Creationist Fallacy.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

@tabzer Do you hold even a single position that factual evidence will shift?
Like, even ONE


tabzer said:


> And you have zero evidence of Trump losing 60+ cases.  Case closed, goober.


look at those goalposts fly
gotta go fast


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And you have zero evidence of Trump losing 60+ cases.  Case closed, goober.


The Trump campaign has demonstrably lost approximately 60 lawsuits related to alleged election fraud.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And you have zero evidence of Trump losing 60+ cases. Case closed, goober.


Except that he did, you muppet. I'm starting to think that you're a Poe.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And you have zero evidence of Trump losing 60+ cases.  Case closed, goober.



You're so incredibly DUMB you failed special ed.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You're so incredibly DUMB you failed special ed.


Please don't insult special needs students by comparing them to @tabzer.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You're a political hack depending election meddling when it suits Republicans and decrying fake election meddling when it allegedly benefits Democrats.



First, there is a difference between your claim of "meddling" and fake ballots.  "Meddling" includes a wide range activities that can be morally gray, innocent, or malicious.  And if it is Seth Rich who was the source of the wikipedia leak, then you only have the DNC to blame.

Also, I can say as many times as you, that there is evidence, but you are constantly invested in denying it.  You hate Trump that much.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Please don't insult special needs students by comparing them to @tabzer.



Oh, I wasn't. The rest of the brilliant class of beautiful people passed with flying colors!


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

The same three guys are continually repeating the same lies over and over in the hopes that everyone else will get bored of telling them they're wrong and they'll be the last ones standing
I mean, I come back here like once a week just to spit on the fire, but this is some really dedicated shit, I can't even imagine how much of a degenerate you'd have to be to be on this thread nearly 24/7 for over two months

If you want to win an argument through attrition, I respect your enthusiasm, but that respect is tempered with a soul-crushingly enormous serving of pity.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> First, there is a difference between your claim of "meddling" and fake ballots.  "Meddling" includes a wide range activities that can be morally gray, innocent, or malicious.  And if it is Seth Rich who was the source of the wikipedia leak, then you only have the DNC to blame.
> 
> Also, I can say as many times as you, that there is evidence, but you are constantly invested in denying it.  You hate Trump that much.


*So fucking PROVIDE that evidence then. You're claiming it exists, so SHOW US. That is how this works.*


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> there is evidence


Yes, 1000 or 1000s, depending on the person you ask, testimonies and... Some people on twatter saying so.

There is no good evidence for _*widescale, coordinated election fraud.*_ There's evidence for isolated events, which is *expected* in any election, let alone a US election involving well over 100 million people.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> It doesn't matter what you think. It's an objective fact that he was the first to yell 'STOP THE COUNT' on twitter, and was also the first to mention anything about mail ballots. As you've previously demonstrated though, you suffer from Creationist Fallacy so your claims are automatically true and what you think is more important than what any evidence says.



If it doesn't matter what I think, then why are you protesting me?  If only what Trump says is important, then I suppose ehat people believed before Trump came along didn't matter?

What is this "creationist fallacy"?  I don't believe in free and fair elections because the existence of which has never been proven to me.  Are you sure that you aren't applying such an absurd notion to me in reverse?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I don't believe in free and fair elections because the existence of which has never been proven to me.  Are you sure that you aren't applying such an absurd notion to me in reverse?


real easy to knock over a man made of straw


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> If it doesn't matter what I think, then why are you protesting me?  If only what Trump says is important, then I suppose ehat people believed before Trump came along didn't matter?
> 
> What is this "creationist fallacy"?  I don't believe in free and fair elections because the existence of which has never been proven to me.  Are you sure that you aren't applying such an absurd notion to me in reverse?


This entire comment is a strawman. I'm out.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> real easy to knock over a man made of straw


Fuck, you beat me to it.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> If it doesn't matter what I think, then why are you protesting me?  If only what Trump says is important, then I suppose ehat people believed before Trump came along didn't matter?
> 
> What is this "creationist fallacy"?  I don't believe in free and fair elections because the existence of which has never been proven to me.  Are you sure that you aren't applying such an absurd notion to me in reverse?


first off, our point is that you need to get your head out of your ass and listen to points other than Trump's

second off... dude you don't understand how this works
the election being legitimate is the default stance
you, and all the other lunatics on Trump's side with you, are claiming it is not so
so it is YOUR JOB to prove it to us by actually providing reliable evidence of widespread election fraud

and third off, as stated above, that whole post is a giant bullshit strawman argument


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Fuck, you beat me to it.


-finger guns-


Plasmaster09 said:


> *So fucking PROVIDE that evidence then. You're claiming it exists, so SHOW US. That is how this works.*


_"nah"_
~ tabzer, probably
2k21


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> first off, our point is that you need to get your head out of your ass and listen to points other than Trump's
> 
> second off... dude you don't understand how this works
> the election being legitimate is the default stance
> ...



It's not the default stance.  Prior to Trump getting into the games, less than %50 people voted, which probably should be interpreted as that the majority would prefer anarchy to scammy political puppet shows.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's not the default stance.  Prior to Trump getting into the games, less than %50 people voted, which probably should be interpreted as that the majority would prefer anarchy to scammy political puppet shows.


mate, proving election fraud is as easy as 1, 2, 3!


Show me the election fraud


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's not the default stance.  Prior to Trump getting into the games, less than %50 people voted, which probably should be interpreted as that the majority would prefer anarchy to scammy political puppet shows.


That's... not what that means at all.
If you mean that less than 50% of the population voted, of course! It's not like every single person in the nation is a registered voter, especially considering the fact that there do exist people too young to vote.
If you mean that less than 50% of the _registered voting population_ voted... that's basically just what happens. Between a lot of people just having political apathy, being indecisive or classic Republican voter suppression (_*which was one of the reasons basically all Democrats voted by mail*_), that's just how it works.
The really high voter turnout this time isn't a result of fraud, it's a result of us all realizing _we can't afford a second term of Trump, so we all HAVE to vote in order to prevent that._
Also, for the hundred-or-so-th time... prove the fraud. Either you prove it, or you're just lying straight out of your ass. I don't need to paraphrase Lilith on what happens if you keep insisting the burden of proof lies on the skeptic, don't I?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

How is skepticism of the political process a strawman?  Do you believe advertisements are for your benefit unless you can prove that they are for someone else's instead?


----------



## HelveticaToast (Jan 17, 2021)

Ok


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> How is skepticism of the political process a strawman?  Do you believe advertisements are for your benefit unless you can prove that they are for someone else's instead?


this isn't skepticism, it's denialism
skepticism accepts evidence to the contrary and actually seeks proof
denialism just ignores all evidence to the contrary and just seeks bias confirmation because they're biased to begin with
you are a denialist in this situation
you are in denial
either actually provide reliable evidence to your claims, or get your head out of your ass and stop denying the election results


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> That's... not what that means at all.
> If you mean that less than 50% of the population voted, of course! It's not like every single person in the nation is a registered voter, especially considering the fact that there do exist people too young to vote.


Sorry, I was wrong.  58% of eligible voters vote apparantly.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> How is skepticism of the political process a strawman?  Do you believe advertisements are for your benefit unless you can prove that they are for someone else's instead?


this post is literally another strawman


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Skepticism doesn't accept what is being said just because it's being said.  I seek truth, but also acknowledge that I msy not have access to it in the interim.  That does not mean that I should accept something sub-par.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> First, there is a difference between your claim of "meddling" and fake ballots.  "Meddling" includes a wide range activities that can be morally gray, innocent, or malicious.


Russian meddling in the 2016 election was not "morally gray" or "innocent."



tabzer said:


> And if it is Seth Rich who was the source of the wikipedia leak, then you only have the DNC to blame.


Not only are your Russia conspiracy theories unsubstantiated by evidence, but the Seth Rich conspiracy theories were debunked long ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

Conspiratorial thinking is dangerous, and it causes one to reach all sorts of unfounded conclusions.



tabzer said:


> Also, I can say as many times as you, that there is evidence, but you are constantly invested in denying it.  You hate Trump that much.


No evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election has been provided by anyone. You're as much a fool as you are a political hack.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> this post is literally another strawman



So DNC is the default?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Skepticism doesn't accept what is being said just because it's being said.  I seek truth, but also acknowledge that I msy not have access to it in the interim.  That does not mean that I should accept something sub-par.


You don't care about truth, and you don't know how to apply skepticism properly. I'd be surprised if you could tell me anything specific about what it means to be a skeptic. You engage in conspiratorial thinking and the acceptance of claims without evidence.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So DNC is the default?


and this too, another strawman
this guy can't get enough of that one fallacious argument


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Except that he did, you muppet. I'm starting to think that you're a Poe.


You need to seriously consider the context of the conversation instead of breaking it and trying to start another one based on ad-hominem tactics.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Skepticism doesn't accept what is being said just because it's being said.


"i believe that trump lost the election due to fraud"
"no he didn't, here is evidence here, here and-"
"OmG i'M a SkEpTiC"


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Russian meddling in the 2016 election was not "morally gray" or "innocent."
> 
> 
> Not only are your Russia conspiracy theories unsubstantiated by evidence, but the Seth Rich conspiracy theories were debunked long ago.
> ...


this guy keeps claiming there's tons of evidence but refuses to provide a single shred of _reliable evidence_
like once or twice he's put individual links to stuff that turns out to have been either manipulated or just pulled right out of his ass but never a reliable resource
do I really need to remind him about what Lilith said about the burden of proof? seems like it.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

If I am arguing with strawmen, then my pov doesn't matter.  So why bother responding?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> and this too, another strawman
> this guy can't get enough of that one fallacious argument


hard not to resort to fallacy when you have no response to things people say to you


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You need to seriously consider the context of the conversation instead of breaking it and trying to start another one based on ad-hominem tactics.


Claiming you're a Poe actually isn't an ad hominem attack. It's really an attack on your argument, by claiming the entire thing is satire. Though it's not generally good debate etiquette, it isn't ad-hominem.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> "i believe that trump lost the election due to fraud"
> "no he didn't, here is evidence here, here and-"
> "OmG i'M a SkEpTiC"


You have evidence that he lost and that it wasn't due to fraud?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> If I am arguing with strawmen, then my pov doesn't matter.  So why bother responding?


this dude just said that because we won't respond to his strawmen, _we're_ the ones acting in bad faith
my fucking sides


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> If I am arguing with strawmen, then my pov doesn't matter.  So why bother responding?


You've accepted various conspiratorial claims ("there was probably election fraud in 2020," "Seth Rich is more to blame in 2016 then Russia," etc.) without evidence. You do not get to claim any sort of moral high ground with regard to logic, discourse, etc.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Claiming you're a Poe actually isn't an ad hominem attack. It's really an attack on your argument, by claiming the entire thing is satire. Though it's not generally good debate etiquette, it isn't ad-hominem.


It's an ad hominem because you are claiming something about my character and ignoring the context of the argument.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> If I am arguing with strawmen, then my pov doesn't matter.  So why bother responding?


Because we know that if we don't, you'll take that as a sign of argumentative surrender and act like you've "won".
Just like Trump did, when he claimed to have won the election before the votes even finished counting, tried his hardest to forcefully and illegally prevent the counting of legitimate votes and then perpetuate bullshit conspiracies about fraud because of how much of a sore loser he is!


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You have evidence that he lost and that it wasn't due to fraud?


We have ample evidence Trump lost the 2020 election fairly, and we have no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's an ad hominem because you are claiming something about my character and ignoring the context of the argument.


Ad hominem would be if someone claimed you were wrong because of X, and that did not happen. You should study up on logical fallacies, particularly the shifting of the burden of proof fallacy.

For example, I can say you're wrong and explain why, and I can call you a political hack. As long as I don't say you're wrong because you're a political hack, it's not an ad hominem.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's an ad hominem because you are claiming something about my character and ignoring the context of the argument.


No, calling you a Poe is literally about your argument. It's poor phrasing, but it's not about your character.
It's just saying that your argument is satirical, which I'm starting to believe it is because no legitimate argument could be _*THIS awful...*_ I hope.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You have evidence that he lost and that it wasn't due to fraud?


trump has lost 100% of his lawsuits regarding the election due to lack of proof
since you're the guys making the claim, all i can do is debunk your arguments, i can't prove a negative
i can use the fact there was quite a lot of security surrounding the election as backup to my assertion that the election is legitimate, but you're specifically asking me to prove a negative


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You've accepted various conspiratorial claims ("there was probably election fraud in 2020," "Seth Rich is more to blame in 2016 then Russia," etc.) without evidence. You do not get to claim any sort of moral high ground with regard to logic, discourse, etc.


"Conspirational claims". Lol.  Claims of conspiracy are automatically debunked because there are no such thing as conspiracies?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Ad hominem would be if someone claimed you were wrong because of X, and that did not happen. You should study up on logical fallacies, particularly the shifting of the burden of proof fallacy.


And the DARVO argument- deny (all the evidence of the election's legitimacy), attack (whoever the fuck he pleases at the moment in an attempt to cheat the argument), reverse victim and offender ("My PoV dOeSn'T mAtTeR, yOu'Re FaLlAcIoUs")!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> trump has lost 100% of his lawsuits regarding the election due to lack of proof
> since you're the guys making the claim, all i can do is debunk your arguments, i can't prove a negative
> i can use the fact there was quite a lot of security surrounding the election as backup to my assertion that the election is legitimate, but you're specifically asking me to prove a negative


And, so, the logic goes that Biden has been blocking investigation.  See?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "Conspirational claims". Lol.  Claims of conspiracy are automatically debunked because there are no such thing as conspiracies?


The claims are absurd in nature, unproven and you still refuse to provide any form of even SLIGHTLY trustworthy evidence to them. So yeah, they're conspiracy theories.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And, so, the logic goes that Biden has been blocking investigation.  See?


okay, show me the proof of that
you just made the claim, prove it


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

I make it a point not to meet my extended family, so I've never had those awkward and political Thanksgiving Dinners.

I guess this is my time to catch up on the action.
Who knows, if this Thread holds up until Thanksgiving 2021, I can even read this whilst having some turkey.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And, so, the logic goes that Biden has been blocking investigation.  See?


...No??? The investigations happened, and the results were that _*there was no widespread election fraud.*_ This is why Trump's team lost all those cases. Well, that and the fact that they refused to provide any actual evidence- just as you do now.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> "Conspirational claims". Lol.  Claims of conspiracy are automatically debunked because there are no such thing as conspiracies?


Your claims of widespread voter fraud and Seth Rich's murder and involvement in the 2016 election meddling are textbook examples of conspiracy theories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> i can use the fact there was quite a lot of security surrounding the election as backup to my assertion that the election is legitimate, but you're specifically asking me to prove a negative



The election was "secured".  But how well do you know these people?  Do you believe in them?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> I make it a point not to meet my extended family, so I've never had those awkward and political Thanksgiving Dinners.
> 
> I guess this is my time to catch up on the action.
> Who knows, if this Thread holds up until Thanksgiving 2021, I can even read this whilst having some turkey.


this thread won't die unless mods lock it
you'll be here at the next election if they don't get sick of it



tabzer said:


> The election was "secured".  But how well do you know these people?  Do you believe in them?


i have no reason not to, since no proof has been provided to the contrary


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Your claims of widespread voter fraud and Seth Rich's murder and involvement in the 2016 election meddling are textbook examples of conspiracy theories.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory


Conspiracy theories are ok. Everyone knows conspiracies exist.  The theory is how they work until they reach a point of exposure.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The election was "secured".  But how well do you know these people?  Do you believe in them?


dude I might not personally know anyone working at NASA but I still believe they made the fucking rockets and sent a fucking man to the fucking moon
...oh wait you might be a moon landing denier too, that might not work


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> this thread won't die unless mods lock it
> you'll be here at the next election if they don't get sick of it
> 
> 
> i have no reason not to, since no proof has been provided to the contrary


You have no proof that i am deceiving you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> dude I might not personally know anyone working at NASA but I still believe they made the fucking rockets and sent a fucking man to the fucking moon
> ...oh wait you might be a moon landing denier too, that might not work



Idk.  It's interesting nonetheless.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You have no proof that i am deceiving you.


You have absolutely no proof.
You are making a claim.
It is YOUR job to prove it.
The burden of proof lies on *YOU.*
If I just decide to say "Tabzer's a pedophile", it's not your job to disprove it. It's my job to back it up with evidence. Using your fundamentally flawed 'understanding' of the burden of proof, it would be your job to disprove a pedophilia accusation it took one second and zero points of evidence for me to come up with.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Conspiracy theories are ok. Everyone knows conspiracies exist.  The theory is how they work until they reach a point of exposure.


the difference between the panama papers and me claiming that "lincoln's assassination was faked and he became the permanent ruler of america in the cosmos" is simply a matter of proof
provide the proof and we're into it



tabzer said:


> You have no proof that i am deceiving you.


Sure I do. You haven't made a single accurate claim on this topic. This leads me to believe you are attempting to deceive me.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> *American Thinker Issues Groveling Apology to Dominion Voting Systems For ‘Completely False’*



In case they turn round later and say they only said that to avoid going to court, then dominion should still take them to court.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> That's not what they were trying to do though? They were trying to stop votes sent after the deadline, not postmarked properly, and not verified or that didn't have a witness inspect them from being counted.



Denying someone a vote because a Republican postal worker purposefully postmarked them incorrectly would be bad.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> In one state alone they had a small investigation and found 100,000 people voted twice for example. Genuine fraud and also incompetence.



Who did the investigation? Can you point to evidence of it?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As far as I know judges do not look at evidence before a case. This is done during a case. A court can deny opening a case if it believes it is none of their business (see Supreme Court).



You normally present evidence before the day of the court case, because you have to disclose it to the other side.

It would be entirely possible for the defense attorney to apply to the court before the case is heard to have the case thrown out or delayed, if there was no evidence or it was supplied too late for you to build a defense.

In cases like this where the court needs to make a time sensitive decision, I would expect for an injunction against having the result certified to be requested and that would happen before the case is heard.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Conspiracy theories are ok. Everyone knows conspiracies exist.  The theory is how they work until they reach a point of exposure.


Conspiracy theories are not okay. They are the antithesis of skepticism. A person who engages in conspiratorial thinking is a person who does not care about truth.


> A *conspiracy theory* is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. The term has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence.
> 
> Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth, whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proved or disproved. Research suggests that *conspiracist ideation*—belief in conspiracy theories—may be psychologically harmful or pathological and that it is correlated with psychological projection, paranoia and Machiavellianism. Psychologists attribute finding a conspiracy where there is none to a mental phenomenon called _illusory pattern perception_.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

If you don't have the wherewithal to take an honest and objective look at your thought processes, please seek professional help.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> You have absolutely no proof.
> You are making a claim.
> It is YOUR job to prove it.
> The burden of proof lies on *YOU.*
> If I just decide to say "Tabzer's a pedophile", it's not your job to disprove it. It's my job to back it up with evidence. Using your fundamentally flawed 'understanding' of the burden of proof, it would be your job to disprove a pedophilia accusation it took one second and zero points of evidence for me to come up with.


I have my wits and the evidence is widely available.  I'd call it proof, but many of you would deny the sky being blue if it gave Trump the election.  I settle for the term "evidence".


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I have my wits and the evidence is widely available.  I'd call it proof, but many of you would deny the sky being blue if it gave Trump the election.  I settle for the term "evidence".


Please see what I said above. You have no evidence of widespread voter fraud, Seth Rich's involvement in the 2016 election meddling, etc. You're engaging in conspiratorial thinking, and you're accepting claims before they've met their burdens of proof.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I have my wits and the evidence is widely available.  I'd call it proof, but many of you would deny the sky being blue if it gave Trump the election.  I settle for the term "evidence".


dude, it's still your job to prove it
if it was the sky being blue, you could make a video recording of various parts of the sky and send it as evidence of the sky being blue
if it's so widely available, then fucking prove it to us yourself


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> As far as I know judges do not look at evidence before a case. This is done during a case. A court can deny opening a case if it believes it is none of their business (see Supreme Court).


THANKS TO @smf FOR BRINGING THIS GEM TO MY ATTENTION
*JUDGES DO NOT LOOK AT EVIDENCE BEFORE A CASE*
Jesus Christ, you could have saved yourself the trouble of being such a laughing-stock by the most small-brain Google search



tabzer said:


> I have my wits and the evidence is widely available.  I'd call it proof, but many of you would deny the sky being blue if it gave Trump the election.  I settle for the term "evidence".


this ain't evidence, mate
come back with _evidence
_


tabzer said:


> I have my wits and the evidence is widely available.  I'd call it proof, but many of you would deny the sky being blue if it gave Trump the election.  I settle for the term "evidence".


for five pages people have been going "show proof" and you haven't
i don't know if your wits are something you wanna rely on, mate


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> dude, it's still your job to prove it
> if it was the sky being blue, you could make a video recording of various parts of the sky and send it as evidence of the sky being blue
> if it's so widely available, then fucking prove it to us yourself



I can't convince people who are willing to lie to stop lying without having greater leverage.  Showing a video of a blue sky, in this context, would yield people saying "that's not blue!". Politics is not about truth.  It's about the pursuit of power.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> You have no proof that i am deceiving you.



The entire thread is loaded with you attempting to deceive people. Flat out lies that have been factually debunked by many people, many times over. Yet YOU still have not provided one single concrete shred of factual evidence to your claims, to anyone. You make things up out of thin air. You try to constantly shift the burden of proof. You've been proven a hypocrite. Yes, you are absolutely 100% factually attempting to deceive people. Proof? This thread. Now provide some factual and credible evidence for your own claims. We've all been waiting this entire time. 344 pages, and notta from you. Time to pay up or shut your mouth.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Conspiracy theories are not okay. They are the antithesis of skepticism. A person who engages in conspiratorial thinking is a person who does not care about truth.



Right, I'm too skeptical to believe in conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theorists on the other hand want to believe despite the evidence being non existent or based on half truths. If they were free thinkers who wanted to make up their own mind then they wouldn't hitch their wagon to such crazy ideas.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> The entire thread is loaded with you attempting to deceive people. Flat out lies that have been factually debunked by many people, many times over. Yet YOU still have not provided one single concrete shred of factual evidence to your claims, to anyone. You make things up out of thin air. You try to constantly shift the burden of proof. You've been proven a hypocrite. Yes, you are absolutely 100% factually been attempting to deceive people. Proof? This thread. Now provide some factual and credible evidence for your own claims. We've all been waiting this entire time. 344 pages, and notta from you. Time to pay up or shut your mouth.



There's no proof to any of your claims.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's not the default stance.  Prior to Trump getting into the games, less than %50 people voted, which probably should be interpreted as that the majority would prefer anarchy to scammy political puppet shows.


Ok, let's do this another way.

Imagine that there is a country, we'll call it Tabzerland. I've been President of Tabzerland for 4 years and I want a re-election. We'll assume that it's a two-party state, so you're my rival and you're running for election.

Election night comes, and you win. We'll say Tabzerland is home to 50 million voters, so you got, say 26 million votes, and I got 24 million. You beat me by a few percent.

Now, I go on an imaginary social media app called Twatter, and I twat 'STOP THE COUNT' and claim that the election was rigged against me.

So, now that I've claimed foul play, do you bow down to me and give me your victory, or do you tell me to prove that your supporters rigged the election?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I can't convince people who are willing to lie to stop lying without having greater leverage.  Showing a video of a blue sky, in this context, would yield people saying "that's not blue!".


"you wouldn't believe it anyway" is a pretty shithouse argument


tabzer said:


> Politics is not about truth.


mask off moment right here everyone


Cryoraptor said:


> Ok, let's do this another way.


dude, conservatives never engage with metaphors
this is a waste of time, just point and laugh at the "politics is not about truth" man


tabzer said:


> There's no proof to any of your claims.


prove that
no, seriously, prove that there's no proof to his claims


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> "you wouldn't believe it anyway" is a pretty shithouse argument
> 
> mask off moment right here everyone
> 
> ...


I'm not expecting an honest response, but I just want to see what his answer is.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> "you wouldn't believe it anyway" is a pretty shithouse argument



I would question what the point is trying to convince someone of something if they have such little faith in their own argument, or the people they are arguing with.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'm not expecting an honest response, but I just want to see what his answer is.


silly cryoraptor
don't you know that tabzer just ignores posts he can't attempt leveraging into a bad faith argument
silly cryoraptor


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Ok, let's do this another way.
> 
> Imagine that there is a country, we'll call it Tabzerland. I've been President of Tabzerland for 4 years and I want a re-election. We'll assume that it's a two-party state, so you're my rival and you're running for election.
> 
> ...



No.  I ask you "since when did you disagree with how we do elections and how can we improve them so that we both can agree in a fair election?"

If it is a two party situation, then either party has the right to be uncomfortable with the situation.    In America's recent history, I do not remember this being a considerable rationale.

Everyone just "moves on" while holding the offense in the back of their minds.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'm not expecting an honest response, but I just want to see what his answer is.





Darth Meteos said:


> silly cryoraptor
> don't you know that tabzer just ignores posts he can't attempt leveraging into a bad faith argument
> silly cryoraptor


@tabzer doesn't even respond to me anymore.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> No.  I ask you "since win did you disagree with how we do elections and how can we improve them so that we both can agree in a fair election?"
> 
> If it is a two party situation, then either party has the right to be uncomfortable with the situation.    In America's recent history, I do not remember this being a considerable rational.


So you'd accept my claims of rigging, and allow me to have the victory anyway? Then what was the point of the election to begin with?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> @tabzer doesn't even respond to me anymore.


I suspect I'll be added to that list soon enough.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> @tabzer doesn't even respond to me anymore.


Kind of hard when i have 6 offended people to respond to.  Can't you be polite and give some space instead of trying to overwhelm me with "wah wah"?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> There's no proof to any of your claims.



There you go again. I've already provided my proof and in a court of law it would be pretty sound. Your claims however seem to have not done too well for ANYONE making them. Still waiting on your evidence. All of us. Not just myself. You continue to try to sneak out of your responsibility for burden of proof. Put up or shut up, regardless of what kind of proof you want from anyone else. Regardless how many times it's already been provided to you. Most everyone else here has backed up their claims at one point or another. You still have nothing. Yet all you can do every time you're asked is "But but but but.. where's YOUR proof that it DIDN'T happen!?!?!!" Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. That's all you have and all you've ever given anyone. Guess what? Burden of proof still lies on you, not on anyone else here. So continue to point your finger, but we're still waiting.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> @tabzer doesn't even respond to me anymore.


lacius, i love you, but that is the funniest struggle quote i have seen all week

@tabzer this is the greatest gift anyone has ever given you on gbatemp
this quote belongs in your signature


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> lacius, i love you, but that is the funniest struggle quote i have seen all week
> 
> @tabzer this is the greatest gift anyone has ever given you on gbatemp
> this quote belongs in your signature


He can't possibly say 'Politics is the pursuit of power' and then say that if he was a candidate and he was accused of rigging, he _wouldn't _meme the shit out of the people accusing him, can he?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> So you'd accept my claims of rigging, and allow me to have the victory anyway? Then what was the point of the election to begin with?



Not at all. There is no reason for you to interpret what I said as being "that".


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> It's an ad hominem because you are claiming something about my character and ignoring the context of the argument.


Sir, I did look into the link attached to your signature about election fraud (I probably spent much too long there, given the quality of material) . Have you...looked into these references linked in the spreadsheet? Your argument is bleak, sir.
Please don't confuse my stance to be a result of a 'partisan' bias, for my approach to US politics is impartial and equitable . My view is uninfluenced, I assure you. 
Since this thread seems to have degraded into lessons of 'logical fallacies' and how to be a proper 'skeptic', I want to bring back some focus to your original argument and give you a chance to justify your claims directly,


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> He can't possibly say 'Politics is the pursuit of power' and then say that if he was a candidate and he was accused of rigging, he _wouldn't _meme the shit out of the people accusing him, can he?



Well obviously it's the first person he agrees with that says it's rigged that gets to win.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Ok so you'd want me and my supporters to prove that rigging occured right? @tabzer 


EDIT: he doesn't know how to use quotes and fucked his post up

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



0x3000027E said:


> I want to bring back some focus to your original argument and give you a chance to justify your claims directly,


He and others like him have been given countless opportunities to do so, but they duck out of it and resort to logic games as if they are creationists.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Kind of hard when i have 6 offended people to respond to.  Can't you be polite and give some space instead of trying to overwhelm me with "wah wah"?


It shouldn't be any harder than providing all of that evidence of widespread election fraud you gave us.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> No.  I ask you "since when did you disagree with how we do elections and how can we improve them so that we both can agree in a fair election?"


okay so when biden asked trump that he incited a riot that attacked the capitol building
what's step 2


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

0x3000027E said:


> Sir, I did look into the link attached to your signature about election fraud (I probably spent much too long there, given the quality of material) . Have you...looked into these references linked in the spreadsheet? Your argument is bleak, sir.
> Please don't confuse my stance to be a result of a 'partisan' bias, for my approach to US politics is impartial and equitable . My view is uninfluenced, I assure you.
> Since this thread seems to have degraded into lessons of 'logical fallacies' and how to be a proper 'skeptic', I want to bring back some focus to your original argument and give you a chance to justify your claims directly,


Nobody is "uninfluenced".  The quote you are responding to is this in context.

As for my evidence in the signature, I don't care if it is evidence or proof.  Even if it is bleak, it has earned the title of evidence.  I have already mentioned that this list is not up to date.   I'm not trying to prove that the election was rigged.  That much can be done without me.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> okay so when biden asked trump that he incited a riot that attacked the capitol building
> what's step 2



That's not a question.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm not trying to prove that the election was rigged. That much can be done without me.


So wait, what was the entire point of your comments here if you weren't trying to prove that the elections were rigged?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Nobody is "uninfluenced".  The quote you are responding to is this in context.
> 
> As for my evidence in the signature, I don't care if it is evidence or proof.  Even if it is bleak, it has earned the title of evidence.  I have already mentioned that this list is not up to date.   I'm not trying to prove that the election was rigged.  That much can be done without me.


You haven't so much as demonstrated the election was rigged or likely rigged.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> That much can be done without me.



That is provably false.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> That is provably false.


Anybody could say that.  It doesn't mean anything and it lacks foresight.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> That's not a question.


"what's step 2" is incontrovertibly a question


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> That's not a question


Your responses aren't answers either most of the time.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



tabzer said:


> Anybody could say that.  It doesn't mean anything and it lacks foresight.


In the same vein, anybody could say the elections were rigged, but it doesn't mean anything and lacks foresight.

Are you sure you're not a fucking Poe mate


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You haven't so much as demonstrated the election was rigged or likely rigged.


I have listed my points of skepticism, which is all I need. It's unreasonable yo expect me to convince you, a person who wants the current president out at all costs.  We don't speak the same language.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> "what's step 2" is incontrovertibly a question


I'm obviously talking about this part: okay so when biden asked trump that he incited a riot that attacked the capitol building.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Cryoraptor said:


> In the same vein, anybody could say the elections were rigged, but it doesn't mean anything and lacks foresight.



So we are the same.  Can I call you brother?


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Nobody is "uninfluenced".


In a _philosophical _discussion, I might agree. When it comes to _political _influence, I will politely disagree.
In any case, my attempt here was to give_ focus_ to your argument of election fraud; you seemed to have shifted the focus yourself.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> So we are the same. Can I call you brother?


Yeah you're definitely a Poe


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> No.  I ask you "since when did you disagree with how we do elections and how can we improve them so that we both can agree in a fair election?"
> 
> If it is a two party situation, then either party has the right to be uncomfortable with the situation.    In America's recent history, I do not remember this being a considerable rationale.
> 
> Everyone just "moves on" while holding the offense in the back of their minds.


...we're asking you since when the frick frack snick snack self-serving fascist fuck did YOU disagree with how the election worked? oh wait, every time it didn't benefit you.
this entire time, you have refused to provide a single point of legitimate evidence and dodged around the questions. you are the problem.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Anybody could say that.  It doesn't mean anything and it lacks foresight.



It is provably false that someone can prove there was fraud, as everyone who tried has failed. The evidence is the failure of all the court cases, so I dispute that someone else can prove it.

Where is your evidence that someone can?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I'm obviously talking about this part: okay so when biden asked trump that he incited a riot that attacked the capitol building.


i know this is gonna be hard for you to understand, but when we talk the words, they mean things
we can say the words that mean the hard stuff, like economics or astronomy
when we talk _those_ words, the understanding can be easy to get
d o   y o u   u n d e r s t a n d
d o   y o u   u n d e r s t a n d   t h e   e n g l i s h   l a n g u a g e


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> i know this is gonna be hard for you to understand, but when we talk the words, they mean things
> we can say the words that mean the hard stuff, like economics or astronomy
> when we talk _those_ words, the understanding can be easy to get
> d o   y o u   u n d e r s t a n d
> d o   y o u   u n d e r s t a n d   t h e   e n g l i s h   l a n g u a g e


I'm sure he's a Poe


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> It is provably false that someone can prove there was fraud, as everyone who tried has failed. The evidence is the failure, so I dispute that someone else can prove it.
> 
> Where is your evidence that someone can?



The evidence is failure.  That's interesting.  That's more of a you thing to think about.  For me the question is "how?" and I admit that I am disatified with both sides.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's past my bedtime.  Goodnight.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The evidence is failure.  That's interesting.  That's more of a you thing to think about.  For me the question is "how?" and I admit that I am disatified with both sides.


no, it's a you thing
this entire argument is you refusing to provide evidence to your argument that doesn't disintegrate in a light breeze
if you went to court, or even a high school debate club, and argued the way you do now, you would probably get permanently banned from said court or club in about an hour because of just how unfathomably bad your argument is


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> no, it's a you thing
> this entire argument is you refusing to provide evidence to your argument that doesn't disintegrate in a light breeze
> if you went to court, or even a high school debate club, and argued the way you do now, you would probably get permanently banned from said court or club in about an hour because of just how unfathomably bad your argument is


I think he's stopped replying to me now because I've clocked that he's trolling.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'm sure he's a Poe


that sounds a lot better than the alternative

can't we just do the leftist infighting thing instead
i could have a lot of fun debating actual shit here
what does everyone think about workplace democratization


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The evidence is failure.  That's interesting.  That's more of a you thing to think about.



The "people trying to prove it and failing" is evidence "that they can't prove it".

But you seem convinced they can prove it, despite the evidence to the contrary. That's more of a you thing to think about.



tabzer said:


> For me the question is "how?" and I admit that I am disatified with both sides.



"How?" what?
"both sides" of what?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> workplace democratization


I'm guessing that means selecting managers and various company leader roles via democratic processes. It sounds like a good idea in theory, but I'm not sure how well it would go down in practice...


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> that sounds a lot better than the alternative
> 
> can't we just do the leftist infighting thing instead
> i could have a lot of fun debating actual shit here
> what does everyone think about a workplace democratization


tbh I would start actually debating things instead of trying to soothe the savage baby but if I bring up one of the core issues that I deeply and personally support (cracking down on hate speech) then that'll just summon shamzie from whatever piss-filled abyss he lives in when he's AFK


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I can't convince people who are willing to lie to stop lying without having greater leverage.  Showing a video of a blue sky, in this context, would yield people saying "that's not blue!". Politics is not about truth.  It's about the pursuit of power.


Being asked to show hard evidence isn't "lying" nor avoiding the issue. You say there's evidence of mass voter fraud, but when asked, you keep deflecting. Show some actual sources, show some actual evidence, it shouldn't be too hard to provide actual evidence to your claims. You are the one making the claims, you are the one who even has a signature saying you believe in election fraud, you are the one responsible for backing up your claims. So, where's the evidence?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> cracking down on hate speech


This is a difficult one. I won't get into it too much but I'll try to stay as fair as possible.

First off, hate speech is so subjective that it's hard to make laws about it. I know there's an official UN definition, but that can still be manipulated.

Second, cracking down on hate speech means diverting resources to monitoring the internet. In the UK this is already becoming an issue and it's possible that if the technology is already there to mointor hate speech, that could be used by a more draconian government for more nefarious purposes.

Third, the internet will always be crawling with sewer trolls and you can't get all of them. In my opinion it's a much more valuable life skill to grow a thick skin and ignore the trolls. The trolls are _trying _to upset you. Before anyone says, I'm not a privileged white male or whatever, I've had my fair share of shit on the internet, and I've probably been trolled harder than most people here, so I know what it's like. But I can tell you that I feel a _lot _happier with myself that I was able to grow a thicker skin because of it and not get so bothered about what wankers on the internet have to say about me. And you know what, when you do that, you see the trolls disappear, because they know they can't bother you, so they get bored and stop trying to get under your skin. I think cracking down on hate speech would just fuel the trolls and absolute sewers like 4chan to troll people harder, because it would then be ok to be sensitive. People will always say mean stuff to you on the internet, because there's a screen inbetween them and the person they are trolling. It's fucking pathetic what trolls do, I agree, but the message should be to rise above it. If more people ignore trolls, the number of trolls will decrease because there's less people to troll.

Of course, I'm not talking about genuine harassment. If someone is being genuinely abusive and harassing you, that's a crime. But discrimination and harassment should be what the crime is, not hate speech. Discrimination and harassment are _far _more objective, and thus far more useful in a legal setting.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I have listed my points of skepticism, which is all I need. It's unreasonable yo expect me to convince you, a person who wants the current president out at all costs.  We don't speak the same language.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Tabzer, you should be embarrassed by your obvious attempt at deflection. You baselessly accuse me of being intellectually dishonest, but you're the one who has engaged in conspiratorial thinking, you are the one who says the truth doesn't matter in politics, you are the one spewing unsubstantiated nonsense about 2020 election fraud, and you are the one who will arbitrarily defend 2016 election meddling when it benefits a Republican while embracing fake 2020 election claims despite lack of corroborating evidence because it allegedly benefits the Democrat.

*Snip* You have done nothing that relates to true skepticism, and I doubt you know the meaning of the word. Embracing conspiratorial claims is not skepticism.

I agree with you that we don't speak the same language. You speak a language of conspiracy, unsubstantiated nonsense, and logical fallacy. I do not.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

On the issue of Free Speech and Democracy, each country seems to have their own ideals, which is fine until they start pointing fingers at other Democracies, calling them inferior just because they adhere to a stricter version for Social Unity.

In the case of the United States, almost every issue of the aforementioned can be traced back to an overlap of their version of both, and their Gun Laws as all of those pertain to enforcing healthy ideals for both. 

We've seen the Government walk back issues to find common ground and relevance moving forward, but the problem is the walking back leaves some people feeling that their rights are being taken hostage, especially if they were privileged and alive to experience a different generation.

In most South and South East Asian countries that I've lived in, the highest goal of their Democracies is Social Unity so one's rights is not as important as the Greater Good, and I tend to agree seeing that ours is a gregarious species. 

Then again, the United States would refer to that as against their fundamental ideals, and so the cycle continues.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 17, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> Then again, the United States would refer to that as against their fundamental ideals


How so?
There are plenty of examples of US programs/policies centered around social unity, state and federal.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

0x3000027E said:


> How so?



Simple examples would be restricting gun ownership to create a safer society.

Another would be a complete database of citizens, which most other Democracies have; the South East Asian Government have a full database of my identity, including retina scans and fingerprints for all 10 digits of my hands, which is normal for safety.

I'm replying on the good faith that this isn't to route the Thread into a different argument, but if that is the case then this will be my last reply, as I'm content in reading the on-topic hilarity already present.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Cracking down on "hate speech" on a governmental level would be in direct violation of the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has affirmed on multiple occasions that hate speech is in fact free speech, there are reams of case law to support that. You as an individual have the capacity to look the other way and not listen to words you find hateful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States



> Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express "the thought that we hate". United States v. Schwimmer, 279 U. S. 644, 655



Allowing people to express thoughts that you find distasteful, or one's you hate yourself, is the pinnacle of tolerance. Unless speech causes imminent threat of harm, it is de facto protected speech.



> A law that can be directed against speech found offensive to some portion of the public can be turned against minority and dissenting views to the detriment of all. The First Amendment does not entrust that power to the government's benevolence. Instead, our reliance must be on the substantial safeguards of free and open discussion in a democratic society. - Justice Kennedy



Designating any particular kind of speech as explicitly hateful and verboten is just a stepping stone, you're loading a gun that one day may be aimed at you. The government should ensure that all expression is protected without exception and let society figure out the rest. Private individuals have the capacity to pick and choose what it wants and does not want to engage with, social standards are malleable - too malleable to be codified in a way that would truly encompass their scope in a fair way.


tomasowa said:


> Simple examples would be restricting gun ownership to create a safer society.
> 
> Another would be a complete database of citizens, which most other Democracies have; the South East Asian Government have a full database of my identity, including retina scans and fingerprints for all 10 digits of my hands, which is normal for safety.
> 
> I'm replying on the good faith that this isn't to route the Thread into a different argument, but if that is the case then this will be my last reply, as I'm content in reading the on-topic hilarity already present.


Sacrificing fundamental rights on the altar of a nebulous "Greater Good" makes hair stand on the back of my neck. The "Greater Good" is like a combine harvester - it turns people who happen to be in the way into mulch. I consider the right to bear arms to be fundamental, impossible to divorce from the right to self-defense, and I weep over the fact that large swathes of the western world have been stripped of it in favour of a government monopoly on gun ownership. Defensive gun use in the U.S. is at least as common as offensive use by criminals, even going by conservative statistics.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/

It's another fundamental constitutional right that should never be abridged, regardless of cost. Even if offensive gun use outweighed offensive gun use, rights are not predicated on statistics anyway - they are fundamental.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Sacrificing fundamental rights on the altar of a nebulous "Greater Good" makes hair stand on the back of my neck.



As expected and the position of a good chunk of the population, which is why the Topic isn't worth the effort arguing in our lifetime.

I'll get back to reading, with my popcorn.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Cracking down on "hate speech" on a governmental level would be in direct violation of the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has affirmed on multiple occasions that hate speech is in fact free speech, there are reams of case law to support that. You as an individual have the capacity to look the other way and not listen to words you find hateful.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States
> 
> ...


the entire reason that saner nations do crack down on hate speech is that it DOES cause harm- when it's spread, it leads to wider-spread discrimination, including bigotry-motivated _violence_
even if we look the other way and don't listen, that generally just leads to more of those hateful thoughts being broadcasted in all directions
if Congress came to its senses and tried to prevent or otherwise crack down on hate speech, it wouldn't be some freedom-violating Orwellian dystopic hellscape
it'd be the equivalent of a teacher FINALLY being allowed to punish bullies by giving them detention after decades of the school operating and the principal making it nigh impossible to actually stop bullying
just substitute bullies with bigots, school with the US, decades with centuries and the principal for _anyone in Congress that upholds the very view you display now_


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> the entire reason that saner nations do crack down on hate speech is that it DOES cause harm- when it's spread, it leads to wider-spread discrimination, including bigotry-motivated _violence_
> even if we look the other way and don't listen, that generally just leads to more of those hateful thoughts being broadcasted in all directions
> if Congress came to its senses and tried to prevent or otherwise crack down on hate speech, it wouldn't be some freedom-violating Orwellian dystopic hellscape
> it'd be the equivalent of a teacher FINALLY being allowed to punish bullies by giving them detention after decades of the school operating and the principal making it nigh impossible to actually stop bullying
> just substitute bullies with bigots, school with the US, decades with centuries and the principal for _anyone in Congress that upholds the very view you display now_


Speech does not equal action. You're more than welcome to criminalise violent conduct, or speech that incites such violent conduct, but not speech itself. I will always err on the side of freedom in this regard - private entities can decide what is and is not acceptable on the premises, I'm comfortable with the government not having that right. I've seen the alternative in action and I don't like it one bit - police cyber squads combing through people's social media in search of wrong-think, as is the case in Scotland, are precisely what I would describe as a police state distopia.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Speech does not equal action. You're more than welcome to criminalise violent conduct, or speech that incites such violent conduct, but not speech itself. I will always err on the side of freedom in this regard - private entities can decide what is and is not acceptable on the premises, I'm comfortable with the government not having that right. I've seen the alternative in action and I don't like it one bit - police cyber squads combing through people's social media in search of wrong-think, as is the case in Scotland, are precisely what I would describe as a police state distopia.


In this case, the golden mean fallacy isn't a fallacy- the ideal solution would be a significantly milder version of what you're saying Scotland does. Someone being a bigoted asshole is fine, but someone being a bigoted asshole and inciting violence because of said bigotry? Shut that shit down in an instant.
If it really is as bad as you say, then yeah that's a tad overboard. But the US's complete and utter lack of any hate speech laws, even ones only applying to OUTRIGHT declarations of violence, is quite possibly even worse.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> In this case, the golden mean fallacy isn't a fallacy- the ideal solution would be a significantly milder version of what you're saying Scotland does. Someone being a bigoted asshole is fine, but someone being a bigoted asshole and inciting violence because of said bigotry? Shut that shit down in an instant.
> If it really is as bad as you say, then yeah that's a tad overboard. But the US's complete and utter lack of any hate speech laws, even ones only applying to OUTRIGHT declarations of violence, is quite possibly even worse.


Inciting violence is already illegal in the United States under a variety of statutes. You could argue that it'snnot policed adequately, and I might be keen on agreeing with you there given the sheer amount of vitriol found on social media. I don't think we disagree here - inciting violence = bad. This might be a matter of wording. As long as the standard is clearly understood and we're talking about "incitement", not nebulous "dog whistles" or other assorted speech that is open to interpretation, I'd be happy to accept it.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> the entire reason that saner nations do crack down on hate speech is that it DOES cause harm- when it's spread, it leads to wider-spread discrimination, including bigotry-motivated _violence_


I disagree. Censoring discriminatory opinions just fuels the fire and it makes more people think they have a point. I think this can be proven by the fact that tolerance of minorities has been continually increasing from the 50s despite discriminatory talk becoming socially unacceptable as late as only 30 years ago or so, and now intolerance is increasing again, which just so happens to coincide with the introduction of 'hate speech' into the law of many western countries, as well as the advent of cancel culture. If people are left alone, nobody cares about what minorities do, but when you start telling them that they can't say certain things, they begin to question and possibly resent such minorities. SJWs, third wave feminists and Antifa all attacked long before MAGA did.

Censorship doesn't work. Displaying closed-minded, ignorant ideas for the world to see does. Censor said ideas, and more people become closed-minded and ignorant, because it plays into the hands of those who claim that they are censored.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

people debating hate speech is about as compelling as watching paint dry


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> people debating hate speech is about as compelling as watching paint dry


I strongly disagree with this sentiment. When paint dries, sometimes you see an exciting and unexpected bubble show up.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 17, 2021)

...I just cried a bit
This is really being believed and spreading on Telegram by MAGA/Qanons


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I strongly disagree with this sentiment. When paint dries, sometimes you see an exciting and unexpected bubble show up.


It's more my style to have some witty retort, but I gotta be honest: I wholeheartedly and unironically agree.

It's not even a debate, debate is when people try to find the factual truth, there's no factual truth in this one, it's subjective, hate speech conversations are just arguments. There are good arguments on both sides, it's a matter of which parts you judge to be preferable. Our definitions of the vague term "hate speech" are probably different to boot... AGHHH


djpannda said:


> ...I just cried a bit
> This is really being believed and spreading on Telegram by MAGA/Qanons


I have yet to see someone believe this unironically, but if I'm gonna find someone like that, this is the thread to be in.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Speech does not equal action.



No, but speech changes peoples thinking and then we have people who attacked the capitol because they were convinced to do it.



Cryoraptor said:


> Censoring discriminatory opinions just fuels the fire and it makes more people think they have a point.



Not censoring also fuels the fire and makes them think they have a point. The problem with censoring is that you don't know what the idiots are thinking, they are still idiots.

It might not be so bad now that Trump is out of office, the problem will be making sure none of the crazy republicans ever gets back in again. I'm kinda shocked that republicans elect these crazy SOB


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> No, but speech changes peoples thinking and then we have people who attacked the capitol because they were convinced to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ngl now I'm imagining a world where social media data collection is used not to systematically advertise to consumers or other forms of "we know what you want" money-draining, but to constantly add to a freely viewable government-maintained Wall of Shame
inciting of violence or other forms of endangering safety (including things like antivax, antimask, etc. that passively endanger other people's health) is banned outright, but other forms of bigotry are legally allowed, even if it constitutes hate speech
all of it, however, goes on the Wall, where everyone can freely view it and laugh their asses off at the nation's bad examples
note: this is zero percent serious
it'd be hilarious but also dystopic


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> all of it, however, goes on the Wall, where everyone can freely view it and laugh their asses off at the nation's bad examples
> note: this is zero percent serious
> it'd be hilarious but also dystopic



It's what we have now.

Pretty much the entire world is laughing at Trump supporters who believe the election was rigged.

The antivax/antimask are world wide, but most people have the first, last & in between laugh at them.

It's free entertainment during the pandemic.

I'd like to see more of Elizabeth from Knoxville or Melissa Carone. Is there anywhere we can subscribe to their crazy rants?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> It's what we have now.
> 
> Pretty much the entire world is laughing at Trump supporters who believe the election was rigged.
> 
> The antivax/antimask are world wide, but most people have the first, last & in between laugh at them.


yeah I was just about to say "wait this is just social media but even more widespread"
bonus points if the Wall has some optional filters to replace some words to make it safe for certain audiences...
_so that even children can view it and see how NOT to act._
now I'm tempted to write a book about this and how it'd likely result in something that qualifies as both a utopia and a dystopia simultaneously from *almost every viewpoint*


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> bonus points if the Wall has some optional filters to replace some words to make it safe for certain audiences...



What we need is the opposite of tik tok, you post a video with your crazy rants and then people try to lip sync something else to your video.

As people are sharing your video it will just replace it with one that is funnier.

You could do that with posts too, have competitions for what word replacements would be funny and then change peoples posts. With a limit of how many words you can change, (1-3 max)

Bonus points if your find/replace works on multiple posts.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> now I'm tempted to write a book about this and how it'd likely result in something that qualifies as both a utopia and a dystopia simultaneously from *almost every viewpoint*


Is this the libertarian paradise I've been told about?


smf said:


> What we need is the opposite of tik tok, you post a video with your crazy rants and then people try to lip sync something else to your video.
> 
> As people are sharing your video it will just replace it with one that is funnier.
> 
> You could do that with posts too, have competitions for what word replacements would be funny and then change peoples posts. With a limit of how many words you can change, (1-3 max)


Now *that* is an EOF thread I'd like to see. You're a natural.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> What we need is the opposite of tik tok, you post a video with your crazy rants and then people try to lip sync something else to your video.
> 
> As people are sharing your video it will just replace it with one that is funnier.
> 
> You could do that with posts too, have competitions for what word replacements would be funny and then change peoples posts. With a limit of how many words you can change, (1-3 max)


there's this incomprehensibly potent irony to a world where a way to both prevent hateful ideologies from going physical while maintaining people's freedoms... *is mocking the fuck out of the world's bigots*


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> there's this incomprehensibly potent irony to a world where a way to both prevent hateful ideologies from going physical while maintaining people's freedoms... *is mocking the fuck out of the world's bigots*



It would be just like graffiti, if someone writes or draws something on a wall then other people can change it to a more positive message (or funnier...)


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Is this the libertarian paradise I've been told about?


**spit take*
*five minutes of solid laughter**
*chuckling* No, this entails people having to deal with at least the _social_ consequences of their actions.

Edit: Sometimes, I am bad at formatting. :/


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Is this the libertarian paradise I've been told about?



In reality there is no paradise waiting for anyone.

Trump is acting like a victim now, but he was all for removing trouble makers from social media a little while ago. He didn't think it would affect him.

Frankly we'd be better off without social media.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> there's this incomprehensibly potent irony to a world where a way to both prevent hateful ideologies from going physical while maintaining people's freedoms... *is mocking the fuck out of the world's bigots*


Comedy has always been a powerful tool in fighting ideologies. It's the first thing that gets attacked when an authoritarian government takes root - once you make something funny, it's harder for you to be scared of it. There's a reason why Chaplin was doing the goose step, The Great Dictator did untold damage to Hitler's public image. Admittedly, Chaplin had some regrets about making the movie, but only because of the sheer extent of the atrocities committed - there's a fine line between mockery and making light of a given situation.


Plasmaster09 said:


> **spit take*
> *five minutes of solid laughter**
> *chuckling* No, this entails people having to deal with at least the _social_ consequences of their actions.


Am I truly free if I can't even own an army of child slaves? The world may never know. In all seriousness though, I'm fine with social consequences - I've always been a supporter of voting with your wallet. I have a big problem with job lynch mobs, as in groups of people bombarding someone's employer with mail because they don't condone something they said privately, but that's a different discussion altogether, one that I actually would like to see addressed. We already have a plethora of reason for which one can't be fired, I'd be more than happy to see speech become one of them, provided the utterance is made in private, not on company time.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> We already have a plethora of reason for which one can't be fired, I'd be more than happy to see speech become one of them, provided the utterance is made in private, not on company time.



But what if they don't want to hire a racist but you just don't say anything overtly racist during company time, while at home you dress up in a klan outfit?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> But what if they don't want to hire a racist but you just don't say anything overtly racist during company time, while at home you dress up in a klan outfit?


I might not agree with that but as long as they aren't being openly racist, what their beliefs are and they do in their own house is none of my business. Not someone I want to associate with personally, but I have no right to stop their income if they aren't outwardly causing problems. It only becomes an issue if one day he turns up to work in the klan outfit with a placard saying 'death to n-words' or some other horrific catchphrase.

Also, that is an extreme example and is bordering on strawman; I think Foxi was more alluding to controversial opinions on twitter that employees make in their own time getting people fired, espeically if said statements were made a long time ago. If an employee thinks all the immigrants should go home or whatever, as long as it's not causing a problem in public life they have the right to that opinion.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 17, 2021)

Guys I hacked George Soros' computer...it all makes sense now.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> But what if they don't want to hire a racist but you just don't say anything overtly racist during company time, while at home you dress up in a klan outfit?


I don't see what that has to do with job performance. This is something I'm in two minds about. On one hand, I fully support freedom of association. If someone doesn't want to hire you based on your views, I think it's their right to reject your application based on that fact alone. On the other hand, employers policing speech is not something I endorse - in your private life you should be able to voice whatever opinions you want, you do not represent the business in your free time, you represent yourself. Over time I've come to the conclusion that the way to adjudicate that fairly is actually rather simple.

If the employer was unaware of some kind of activity you're involved in at the time of hiring, that's tough luck. A contract is binding for both parties, both parties signed on the dotted line and both must necessarily uphold their end of the agreement. The onus is on the employer to interview and validate candidates for a given position, at the point of hiring - that was the time to decide whether a person aligns with the company or not. If the employer failed to screen candidates adequately, too bad - as long as the employee's job performance is satisfactory, I see no reason to fire them, particularly not for exercising their rights.

I don't like the idea of mobs forcing people out of jobs because they disagree with them, even if *I* disagree with them as well. Your example is a little absurd, but the framework still applies. An employment contract outlines precisely what is expected of the employee, and if it includes any violation of the employee's rights, I think it should be de facto null and void. That's in a perfect world, however - everybody knows that these days behaviour on social media is often times mentioned in those contracts. A sad state of affairs, to be sure.

For the record, this applies regardless of political alignment. I'm a conservative person, and I would not knowingly enter into a business arrangement with someone who endorses communism, for instance. That said, I would not terminate a business relationship after the fact - an agreement is an agreement. I might not renew it once it lapses, I might choose not to engage in future agreements with that individual, but I would fulfill the commitment I've made unless the other party broke the contract first.

To be fair though, this is not a firm belief. In an ideal world there'd be no such thing as a "protected class" and everyone would just focus on fulfilling their contracts to the t, but I have to work within the framework we've got. I can be swayed one way or the other, depending on the circumstances.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If the employer failed to screen candidates adequately, too bad - as long as the employee's job performance is satisfactory, I see no reason to fire them, particularly not for exercising their rights.



Right, so if they are well known in certain circles as a clan member but they managed to keep it quiet during the hiring process then it's fine. It's the employers fault for not beating it out of them with a rubber hose.

What if they ask and you lie?



Foxi4 said:


> I'm a conservative person, and I would not knowingly enter into a business arrangement with someone who endorses communism, for instance. That said, I would not terminate a business relationship after the fact - an agreement is an agreement. I might not renew it once it lapses, I might choose not to engage in future agreements with that individual, but I would fulfill the commitment I've made unless the other party broke the contract first.



Employment doesn't have an end date, so for it to be the same the contracts would have to have no end date. So the communist and sex offenders you do business with, you would have no end to it ever.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ...I just cried a bit
> This is really being believed and spreading on Telegram by MAGA/Qanons


I enjoy this variant


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Right, so if they are well known clans men who managed to keep it quiet then it's fine. It's the employers fault for not beating it out of them with a rubber hose.
> 
> What if they ask and you lie?


That's none of my business, for the same reason why it's none of my business if they're black, or gay, or a Muslim, or whatever else. An employment contract is not an endorsement of any practices people get involved in in their private lives. I'm also not here to adjudicate morality, are you asking me for some kind of truism along the lines of "lying is bad"? With all that said, if the question is in fact asked during the interview process and the candidate lies, or fails to disclose what's being asked, the contract is signed under a false pretense and thus null and void. It'd effectively amount to fraud, which equals immediate termination. This is standard practice in contract law.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> That's none of my business, for the same reason why it's none of my business if they're black, or gay, or a Muslim, or whatever else. An employment contract is not an endorsement of any practices people get involved in in their private lives. I'm also not here to adjudicate morality. With that said, if the question is asked and the candidate lies, the contract is signed under a false pretense and thus null and void. It'd effectively amount to fraud, which equals immediate termination.



Most employers would then just start asking vague questions like "is there anything that we need to know?". When it turns out their new hire is going round burning crosses and wearing white hoods then they'll point back to where the employee said no.

But you shouldn't have to ask that, they normally ask for hobbies/what you do outside work. If they fail to mention the clan meetings then it's still fraud. If you start going to meetings only after joining the company, well I would still stand by the employer. If they don't want their reputation harmed then what other choice do they have?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Most employers would then just start asking vague questions like "is there anything that we need to know?".


They don't need to know then. If they can't ask a specific question along the lines of "how would you describe your political affiliation?" or "are you involved in any political or social movements?" then they need to revise their hiring practices. For the record, before the question is asked, there are no protections in regards to political affiliation in hiring, at least not in the UK where I'm based, and as far as I know, in the US, the area we're discussing. I'm not entirely sure if such questions are permitted (they should be), we're spitballing hypothetical here.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> If they can't ask a specific question along the lines of "how would you describe your political affiliation?" or "are you involved in any political or social movements?" then they need to revise their hiring practices.



You cannot expect someone to predict all the fucked up things that conservatives get up to.

I mean who would have asked David Cameron if he ever fucked a pigs head?

And David Cameron is one of the tame ones.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> You cannot expect someone to predict all the fucked up things that conservatives get up to.


You're implying that only conservatives do "fucked up things". Are we conveniently forgetting about the crazy Bernie Bro who shot up a congressional baseball game? Because that happened, and not so long ago either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

The usual Multinational Contracts have Clauses for Police Record, Adherence to Company Ethics in and out of the Workplace for Management and Culpability if any information written down isn't true.

That covers practically every concern here, and it's standardised in both Western and Eastern iterations I've signed.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair though, this is not a firm belief. In an ideal world there'd be no such thing as a "protected class" and everyone would just focus on fulfilling their contracts to the t, but I have to work within the framework we've got. I can be swayed one way or the other, depending on the circumstances.


Fair point. However, for that to work, said ideal world would also have to be void of any widespread discrimination that would prevent people from getting jobs just because of who they fundamentally _are_- otherwise it's less "ideal" and more "America with even less restraint".


smf said:


> You cannot expect someone to predict all the fucked up things that conservatives get up to.
> 
> I mean who would have asked David Cameron if he ever fucked a pigs head?
> 
> And David Cameron is one of the tame ones.





Foxi4 said:


> You're implying that only conservatives do "fucked up things". Are we conveniently forgetting about the crazy Bernie Bro who shot up a congressional baseball game? Because that happened, and not so long ago either.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting


Okay, you're both wrong. On one hand, there are problems on both sides. On the other hand, all the atrocities Trump supporters have committed in recent memory makes the golden mean and balance fallacies shatter like glass because there is simply no way to equate said sides.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> You're implying that only conservatives do "fucked up things".



The US doesn't have left wing politicians like the UK, they have a choice of right and far right. As we're both from the UK and I'm discussing UK conservatives then a US example doesn't seem relevant.

Maybe Conservatives just get caught more.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Fair point. However, for that to work, said ideal world would also have to be void of any widespread discrimination that would prevent people from getting jobs just because of who they fundamentally are- otherwise it's less "ideal" and more "America with even less restraint".
> 
> Okay, you're both wrong. On one hand, there are problems on both sides. On the other hand, all the atrocities Trump supporters have committed in recent memory makes the golden mean and balance fallacies shatter like glass because there is simply no way to equate said sides.


I disagree. American cities, including federal buildings, were burning all summer. Didn't see many MAGA hats there. There's screwed up stuff going on on both sides of the aisle, and both sides should own it. Everybody should take their lumps.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> THANKS TO @smf FOR BRINGING THIS GEM TO MY ATTENTION
> *JUDGES DO NOT LOOK AT EVIDENCE BEFORE A CASE*
> Jesus Christ, you could have saved yourself the trouble of being such a laughing-stock by the most small-brain Google search


That´s why I wrote "as far as I know". 
The only time I got into legal trouble in my life was a minor case in Germany and it was dismissed despite my guilt.
So yeah, I don´t know these things. Boohoo. Are you in some kind of girls club with smf? Why didn´t he respond himself?

So when the Supreme Court dismissed the case they looked at evidence? (like videos, statistics or witness testimony?)


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I disagree. American cities, including federal buildings, were burning all summer. Didn't see many MAGA hats there. There's screwed up stuff going on on both sides of the aisle, and both sides should own it. Everybody should take their lumps.



I thought black people loved Donald Trump, that is what he's been saying all last year. So why wouldn't there be loads of his supporters at BLM rallies?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> I thought black people loved Donald Trump, that is what he's been saying all last year. So why wouldn't there be loads of his supporters at BLM rallies?


8% or so voted for Trump. It is a record but still a small amount of African-Americans. Of these 8% even fewer probably agree with BLM. Some of them may own businesses which were attacked at the BLM riots.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Boohoo. Are you in some kind of girls club with smf? Why didn´t he respond himself?



WTF are you on?



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> So when the Supreme Court dismissed the case they looked at evidence? (like videos, statistics or witness testimony?)



Well they looked at the case

_The US Supreme Court on Friday rejected an unprecedented attempt by the state of Texas to throw out election results in four battleground states that Donald Trump lost, an effort backed by the president and more than 100 other elected Republicans. In a brief statement explaining its decision, the court rejected the suit without a hearing, saying Texas had no standing to challenge the results in other states: “*Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognisable interest in the manner in which another state conducts its elections*.”_


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> The US doesn't have left wing politicians like the UK, they have a choice of right and far right. As we're both from the UK and I'm discussing UK conservatives then a US example doesn't seem relevant.
> 
> Maybe Conservatives just get caught more.


I think it's fair considering the UK doesn't have a real right-wing party, the Tories are a joke.


smf said:


> I thought black people loved Donald Trump, that is what he's been saying all last year. So why wouldn't there be loads of his supporters at BLM rallies?


Maybe it has less to do with the skin colour and more to do with the narrative, or the general dislike of the organisation.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 17, 2021)

There's no denying the Republican party has a serious image problem, and it will only get worse if they try anything at Biden's inauguration.  They sold whatever little soul the party had left to a guy who won them a single election, and subsequently lost so many others for them.  Gonna be a good while before they can cleanse themselves of Trump's stink entirely, even if they do vote to convict in the Senate (and there's no guarantee of that).


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I think it's fair considering the UK doesn't have a real right-wing party, the Tories are a joke.



There are loads of parties for far right racists, bnp, edl, ukip, whatever farage is calling his party today.

Tories are a joke, but they are a right wing joke (as right wing parties are)


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 17, 2021)

smf said:


> WTF are you on?


I never had the urge to send another user to do my bidding. Seems girly to me.



smf said:


> _“*Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognisable interest in the manner in which another state conducts its elections*.”_


Yeah so I was right (at least with regards to the Supreme Court case).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

_with regards to left vs right_
Depends how you define left and right.
Both American parties are right-wing in the sense that they support military aggression around the world.
Furthermore both reject healthcare for all, as we have just seen. Even AOC and Sanders reject it. It has always just been virtue signaling to get votes. (see "force the vote")

In the UK both Torries and Labor are left-wing with regards to immigration. Didn´t Boris Johnson basically invite millions of Chinese? This would be unheard of the other way around.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 17, 2021)

To be fair, the Right Wing played their 4-Dimensional Chess intelligently and understood the synergy that can be had between Corporations and Career Politicians; Head of State is a temporary position in comparison.

They needed to act on the ducks they had lined up before Majority Voice was lost and the best option was celebrity recognition, which actually worked.

Since they're accustomed to Long-Term Games, they probably rationalised that the hit on Public Perception could be resolved with time.

Most that planned this already have their Golden Parachutes and are close to bowing out anyway, so it's the next Generation of Right Wing's mess to clean up, as it were.
But they've gained their bonuses and Right Wing perks for the Party.

Again, some well-played 4-Dimensional Chess on their part.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> To be fair, the Right Wing played their 4-Dimensional Chess intelligently and understood the synergy that can be had between Corporations and Career Politicians; Head of State is a temporary position in comparison.


Lmao, good luck convincing anybody that losing the House, the Senate, and the presidency in just four years was the plan all along.  The inability to look past the short-term is more like 1D checkers.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

tabzer said:


> And you have zero evidence of Trump losing 60+ cases.  Case closed, goober.



A little bit of google search has found the proof that your dumb lazy ass couldnt find!

*Lawsuit tracker: Donald Trump’s legal battle runs into repeated dead ends*

*Link to source: *
*https://www.ft.com/content/20b114b5-5419-493b-9923-a918a2527931*

Here's another site that fact checks:

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...den-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/


--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Attached are just a few of those failed Trump cases.

@tabzer so now that you have read all of this info, you cannot be ignorant about these facts! So shut your face about this topic!


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> One group intended to kill (terrorists at the capital. Yes I'll refer to them as terrorists from now on. You don't casually place bombs, and they were looking for the speaker of the house, to either kill her or take hostage. Along with AOC. )
> While another group just wants to no longer be shot by cops, or be brutalized.
> In other words, false dichotomy.



You believe that the BLM cause is valid and the DC riot cause wasn't. That's an opinion. Yes, it may be shared by many of your peers, but there's half of the country that didn't agree with the BLM bullshit including me. In our eyes both causes were stupid and yes, if you're trying to compare ransacking offices to burning down buildings you're logic is failing you.



monkeyman4412 said:


> so... your defending people at the capital who had intent to kill?
> _I see_
> So.... burning down buildings, is somehow worse than, idk. trespassing into the captial, breaking into where the federal government mostly functions, expressly telling others to find AOC, speaker of the house, or saying Mike Pence should die....
> _that checks out *yup I guess burning buildings is now equivalent to murder people in federal power*_


_*
*_
The "protesters were out to murder" is a false narrative being concocted by the leftist lying media who simply found some posts online to support their lies and went with them. I'm not a mind reader and neither are you so either of us can't say what was motivating most of the rioters, but the DC protests had 100,000+ peaceful people and only a few hundred started to riot. That's the same logic your side uses when comparing peaceful BLM protests to the rioting, looting, arson and murder you side did. So why isn't your same logic applied? Oh yeah, the hypocrite factor and double standards of the left.

There's no hard evidence that anyone who was arrested was trying to kill "people in federal power" as many of them simply ransacked a few offices and in very few cases some property was removed. There's also no difference between members of Congress or your "people in federal power" than any other citizen in the country. Just because they are lawmakers doesn't make them more important than you or me. So yes, arson and grand theft is much worse than ransacking a few offices. 

BLM riots have been going on every single week since this summer and I don't see your side condemning them yet when we have one single riot from the Conservative side it's some big fucking deal. I understand that the politicians are all butthurt because they ran like little bitches as the rioting personally came to their front door, but that doesn't make ransacking a few offices outweigh months of arson, looting, murdering all from your side.

So if your eyes BLM riots were justified because you agreed with the cause and the DC riot wasn't because you didn't agree with it. That's simply your opinion. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but there's 70 some million people that didn't agree the BLM protests and riots were justified, especially considering the motivating factor was the death of a criminal who overdosed on drugs while being restrained for resisting arrest.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Lmao, good luck convincing anybody that losing the House, the Senate, and the presidency in just four years was the plan all along.  The inability to look past the short-term is more like 1D checkers.



As you point out - LMAO if you think the goal was to convince anybody.

The people who planned this planned it for themselves, and it's sad that you think any of the common-folk were to benefit.
Almost as sad as those extremists that believed anyone had their interest in mind or that their idol wasn't a burner figure.

But again, 4-Dimensional Chess isn't meant to be understood by the majority, so your position is understandable.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> As you point out - LMAO if you think the goal was to convince anybody.
> 
> The people who planned this planned it for themselves, and it's sad that you think any of the common-folk were to benefit.
> Almost as sad as those extremists that believed anyone had their interest in mind or that their idol wasn't a burner figure.
> ...



Chipping away at trust in the system is the long term goal for those extremists sincerely looking to seize power.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> The people who planned this planned it for themselves, and it's sad that you think any of the common-folk were to benefit.


We are talking about people that were born rich in the US, so in that sense you're correct, they'll always be ahead of the game no matter which direction their life takes.  But do they ultimately "benefit" from losing more than they do from winning and retaining control over one or several federal branches of government?  No, that's stupid.  The only thing better than being rich is being rich AND powerful.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> We are talking about people that were born rich in the US, so in that sense you're correct



... To be precise, I am talking about Right-Wing Career Politicians, who understand the cyclical nature of Politics and what they can and cannot achieve in their lifetime, so I'll leave the rest up to you to understand.



Lumstar said:


> Chipping away at trust in the system is the long term goal for those extremists sincerely looking to seize power.



Between what they perceive to be their goal and what is attainable is a mystery; one thing is for sure, this is not the last time they'll be unwitting participants in Politics, as much as they feel they understand the lay of the land.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

... and in other news ...

*Parler is back online.*

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/17/tech/parler-back-online/index.html

*Biden's first act regarding a caravan of thousands of migrants headed to the USA is to tell them to "don't come".*

https://www.thewashingtontime.com/b...nt-caravans-now-is-not-the-time-to-come-to-us

*Oh, it seems they've erected a wall around the Capitol. That's sorta weird considering the left claims walls don't work.*

https://newswep.com/dozens-on-terror-watch-list-were-in-dc-during-capitol-riots-61098/


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> ... To be precise, I am talking about Right-Wing Career Politicians, who understand the cyclical nature of Politics and what they can and cannot achieve in their lifetime, so I'll leave the rest up to you to understand.


If your goal is to become a "career politician" in the house or the senate, that requires being reelected a certain number of times.

The mental gymnastics required to tell people with a straight face, "losing = winning," just...my god.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You believe that the BLM cause is valid and the DC riot cause wasn't.


One side doesn't want police brutality.
The terrorists that went to to the capital was not.
Tell me, did any of the BLM protestors place bombs?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/06/dc-protests-trump-rally-live-updates/
Did any of them outright want to kill government officials? The two sides are not equivalent in the slightest


Frankfort42 said:


> The "protesters were out to murder" is a false narrative being concocted by the leftist lying media who simply found some posts online to support their lies and went with them.


https://www.tmz.com/videos/2021-01-09-010921-rioters-target-pence-4909001/
Yeah sure, "kill Mike Pence" definitely doesn't mean that they were out to kill.
Just casually chanting it like a normal angry mob.
perhaps they really wanted tea time with Mike Pence.


Frankfort42 said:


> There's no hard evidence that anyone who was arrested was trying to kill "people in federal power"


see clip above


Frankfort42 said:


> BLM riots have been going on every single week since this summer and I don't see your side condemning them


Why should I?
Again, one side fucking planted bombs, one didn't.
Also where it was planted also matters.


Frankfort42 said:


> DC riot wasn't because you didn't agree with it. That's simply your opinion.


Oh I'm sorry. I forgot. I actually care about democracy. Perhaps killing democratically elected leaders, is somehow. idk undemocratic.  OH, and before you try to state, since I've heard this defense before
"Well you see, they didn't kill any leaders. so it couldn't be proven"
explain again why pipe bombs were placed in the capital? Idk about you but that shows explicit intent.
Also, if your going to argue "well it was just one person"
considering the size of the group, and how many where in there, it doesn't take much to realize that would mean a fuck ton of people were complicit with the idea of bombing elected officials
Edit: would of found a normal video from say, youtube. but finding the footage, and let alone digging out the part I was looking for specifically, is a rather challenging thing to do


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You believe that the BLM cause is valid and the DC riot cause wasn't. That's an opinion. Yes, it may be shared by many of your peers, but there's half of the country that didn't agree with the BLM bullshit including me. In our eyes both causes were stupid and yes, if you're trying to compare ransacking offices to burning down buildings you're logic is failing you.
> 
> _*
> *_
> ...


Hey I feel bad.. you wrote all that
but just one picture. Made your argument invalid..

Nazis!!! You lose


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 18, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> Chipping away at trust in the system is the long term goal for those extremists sincerely looking to seize power.


Eh. They only seem to be doing that to their own voter base.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> If your goal is to become a "career politician" in the house or the senate, that requires being reelected a certain number of times.



... Those that had the leverage to pull off all of the aforementioned obviously have the prerequisites, in spades.

I'm starting to think you see a Political Party as a Monolith, which is something best shed as soon as possible.
It is as Multi-generational as the Population.



tomasowa said:


> To be fair, the Right Wing played their 4-Dimensional Chess intelligently and understood the synergy that can be had between Corporations and Career Politicians; Head of State is a temporary position in comparison.



Instead of repeating myself, I'll leave this for a second read, which'll probably help understand it better, now that I've had to circle back and explain the obvious.


----------



## Valwinz (Jan 18, 2021)

You call tell Biden is love by the People when he needs a freaking army marching and setting up walls on what I'm calling now Fortress DC
Trump never call the army to march for him in DC
4 years of the Biden dictatorship will be interesting


----------



## omgcat (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> *Oh, it seems they've erected a wall around the Capitol. That's sorta weird considering the left claims walls don't work.*



this is some low-brow mouth breather level bait. you're legitimately trying to compare a wall less than 2 miles long, actively patrolled by capitol police to a wall to one that would be *1,954 miles *long. that's almost 2000 times larger, and like 6 feet taller across the entire length. the fact your would even try to make that argument seriously speaks to your level of critical thinking skills.

also, a non-edited headline for the caravan is
"*Incoming Biden administration to migrant caravan: Don't come, you won't get in immediately*".

Honduran's seeking asylum would need to wait for the Biden administration to set their immigration policies. that takes time, and we are in a fucking pandemic so they are probably safer waiting until vaccines are distributed.

for context:

*The Biden transition official, however, warned migrants against coming to the U.S. during the early days of the new administration, telling NBC that while “there’s help on the way,” now “is not the time to make the journey.” 


“The situation at the border isn’t going to be transformed overnight,” the official told the outlet.


“We have to provide a message that health and hope is on the way, but coming right now does not make sense for their own safety…while we put into place processes that they may be able to access in the future,” the official said.

These people are at the Honduras-Guatemala border, they are 4000+km (2485+ miles) away from the USA-Mexico border, traveling on foot. it will take them months to even get to the US border.

also it's like 10k people which is fine cause 400k Americans have died to covid so we have some more room.
*
Jesus clearing the bullshit is tiring.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> You call tell Biden is love by the People when he needs a freaking army marching and setting up walls on what I'm calling now Fortress DC
> Trump never call the army to march for him in DC
> 4 years of the Biden dictatorship will be interesting


gee, I wonder why he needs to do that? maybe it's because the Trump supporters are such absolute sore losers that they're attempting a fucking _*coup d'etat,*_ having already attacked the Capitol in a (failed) attempt to threaten electors out of certifying the election, and thus fortress-level defense is necessary to ensure the man isn't assassinated _before he can even take office?_


----------



## Hanafuda (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> ... and in other news ...
> 
> *Oh, it seems they've erected a wall around the Capitol. That's sorta weird considering the left claims walls don't work.*
> 
> https://newswep.com/dozens-on-terror-watch-list-were-in-dc-during-capitol-riots-61098/




Old news. They're replacing that 8ft fence with a much more serious 12ft one now.

New, massive fencing going up outside the Capitol. The eight foot, non-scalable fence is gone. Now, a 12-foot wall is going up. pic.twitter.com/pOdA1paq4Z— Pete Muntean (@petemuntean) January 14, 2021


What impresses me is not that they think they need this, and not the whole irony of the left claiming fences/walls don't work and then building them. No, what impresses me is how fucking quick they can get this shit done when they want to.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> ... Those that had the leverage to pull off all of the aforementioned obviously have the prerequisites, in spades.


Still not a win, even for McConnell or any Republicans who did retain their seats, as they get downgraded to the minority party.  Bernie Sanders becoming Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is a waking nightmare for them.



tomasowa said:


> I'm starting to think you see a Political Party as a Monolith, which is something best shed as soon as possible.
> It is as Multi-generational as the Population.


And who's to say Trump is done losing elections for them?  If he keeps running his mouth through 2022, the Republican party might still be able to find new lows yet.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You believe that the BLM cause is valid and the DC riot cause wasn't. That's an opinion.


That's not an opinion... It's a fact that Republicans were lied to! Get over it!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> The "protesters were out to murder" is a false narrative being concocted by the leftist lying media who simply found some posts online to support their lies and went with them.



Uhmm... So hang Pence and kill Pelosi was just part of a song or a joke that they kept screaming? Your an idiot, wake up and stop being so ignorant!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> There's no hard evidence that anyone who was arrested was trying to kill "people in federal power" as many of them simply ransacked a few offices and in very few cases some property was removed



So video evidence of them saying that isn't enough proof for you? Again... Your ignorant!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> BLM riots have been going on every single week since this summer and I don't see your side condemning them yet when we have one single riot from the Conservative side it's some big fucking deal.



Maybe because people didn't die in BLM and because they aren't attacking the democracy of America... Again ignorant comments from Weiner boy!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Frankfort42 said:


> So if your eyes BLM riots were justified because you agreed with the cause and the DC riot wasn't because you didn't agree with it.



Do you not realise how ridiculous it is to attack the actually democracy of America... Your pretty much going against democracy because a proven liar is telling everyone that he won when he can't even prove it in court. Trump is going against democracy and trying to get everyone to go against democracy as well... This country is made on democracy. Trump would turn it into Russia or China. Ignorant!


----------



## Hanafuda (Jan 18, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Maybe because people didn't die in BLM




Quite a few people did die during those riots. Burned to death, beaten/kicked/stomped to death, shot to death, stabbed to death. Some of it caught on live camera, and nobody doing a fucking thing except cheering it on.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Quite a few people did die during those riots. Burned to death, beaten/kicked/stomped to death, shot to death, stabbed to death. Some of it caught on live camera, and nobody doing a fucking thing except cheering it on.



Apparently between 12 to 19, but no firm answer of deaths. Also no explanation of those deaths... Were they cops who killed those people or was it Republicans like that kid who shot a black person in the street with his AR-15 and walked away past the cops...?!

*Fact-checking claim about deaths, damage from Black Lives Matter protests*

Source:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.statesman.com/amp/113878088


*At least 25 Americans were killed during protests and political unrest in 2020*

Source:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

@Hanafuda sorry but there's no such information regarding people being burned alive and the shit you just said. Why don't you back your allegations up with proof. I've tried to find that info but it looks like the only being retorted is that every prison who died was shot.


----------



## Hanafuda (Jan 18, 2021)

This isn't comprehensive, took about 10 minutes. If you were following the news when these things were happening, you'd know about and remember the events I'm referring to. Although there was one event where a young man trying to defend his store was beaten quite apparently to death. And by that I mean head stomped, limbs pointing in all the directions, etc, left unconscious and laughed at by the perps. But I was surprised to find out while pulling up these links that he survived. I couldn't find details about his condition ... could be paralyzed for life, could be brain damaged. But he didn't die. 


https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/21/us/minneapolis-protest-body-found/index.html

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local...cle_d482138c-0224-5393-bd87-9898bebb3fd1.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-officers-shot-st-louis-las-vegas/3122564001/

https://apnews.com/article/864cb5c14ba08b4411a16577042d0773

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/us/detroit-man-shot-protests/index.html

https://web.archive.org/web/2020060...ce-officer-fatally-shot-in-oakland-identified

https://www.kqed.org/news/11822469/george-floyd-police-violence-protests-curfew-bay-area

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article243230041.html

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...t-name-2nd-person-killed-released/3155832001/

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...good-accused-killing-bystander-looting-cicero

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020...ves-matter-protesters-trump-tower/5312668002/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-injured-shooting-seattle-autonomous-zone/story?id=71363286

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cr...0200713-jcm5oyjca5fz5kge4qtlhh7dnu-story.html

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/04/michael-forest-reinoehl-protest-fatal-shooting-self-defense/


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Still not a win, even for McConnell or any Republicans who did retain their seats, as they get downgraded to the minority party.  Bernie Sanders becoming Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is a waking nightmare for them.
> 
> 
> And who's to say Trump is done losing elections for them?  If he keeps running his mouth through 2022, the Republican party might still be able to find new lows yet.



Senate Budget Committee? How's the economic record of the Republican party working for you?
I'll go send today's newspaper to victims of the Great Depression.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Old news. They're replacing that 8ft fence with a much more serious 12ft one now.
> 
> https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/1349859915574206467



This is completely FALSE! Their is only a 7 foot fence that is installed. Where do you get this shit... And your video doesn't show anything but a vehicle turning in circles.... Another ignorant imbecile spreading false information.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> Senate Budget Committee? How's the economic record of the Republican party working for you?


Not great obviously, but there still is and has been plenty of money flowing into corporate welfare that can be redirected for the benefit of the working class.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> This isn't comprehensive, took about 10 minutes. If you were following the news when these things were happening, you'd know about and remember the events I'm referring to. Although there was one event where a young man trying to defend his store was beaten quite apparently to death. And by that I mean head stomped, limbs pointing in all the directions, etc, left unconscious and laughed at by the perps. But I was surprised to find out while pulling up these links that he survived. I couldn't find details about his condition ... could be paralyzed for life, could be brain damaged. But he didn't die.
> 
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/21/us/minneapolis-protest-body-found/index.html
> ...


So what's your point? Why you posting all of these links without explaining your opinions or point of views?


----------



## realtimesave (Jan 18, 2021)

Can't wait til Wednesday but let's just hope this new president doesn't fuck up the economy as much as people think he will.


----------



## Hanafuda (Jan 18, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> So what's your point? Why you posting all of these links without explaining your opinions or point of views?



because you asked for them.



White_Raven_X said:


> This is completely FALSE! Their is only a 7 foot fence that is installed. Where do you get this shit... And your video doesn't show anything but a vehicle turning in circles.... Another ignorant imbecile spreading false information.



The source is a CNN correspondent. Take it up with him.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 18, 2021)

realtimesave said:


> Can't wait til Wednesday but let's just hope this new president doesn't fuck up the economy as much as people think he will.


thats the least of my worries I Just hope what i fear happen won't happen


----------



## realtimesave (Jan 18, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> thats the least of my worries I Just hope what i fear happen won't happen



this country needs a stronger leader, not some old geezer that seems a bit wimpy.  I am not saying we should keep trump though, that guy is a loose cannon.


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 18, 2021)

and after the capitol riot pretty sure someone from the far right will try and some of the far right may have military training


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 18, 2021)

Defense officials tell AP they fear possible inside attack at inauguration and are having National Guard troops in DC vetted. https://t.co/8CMrpw8DlK— The Associated Press (@AP) January 18, 2021


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> ...



I don't think you understand how this works; anyone in Politics knows they have a limited time.

Nobody has any delusions of continually winning because of the cyclical nature of Politics.
Even Presidents limit themselves to 1-2 major things they can actually get done in 1 Term.

The current senior members of the Party spent most of their professional lives setting the stage for the last few years and they will be well compensated by their benefactors.

Your current score tallying means nothing because the scope of their work was for the last few years.
Like I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if this Term is the time most will bow out and open that Golden Parachute.

I really don't understand why I even need to explain this, but if your analysis is this shallow then maybe it's best to stick to that 1-Dimensional Checkers.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> https://twitter.com/AP/status/1350998019823562760


Considering we know that some of the capitol police officers let insurrectionists just waltz through the front gate, screening procedures should've been in place from the beginning.



tomasowa said:


> maybe it's best to stick to that 1-Dimensional Checkers.


No thanks, I'd sooner castrate myself with a rusty spoon than become a neocon.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Old news. They're replacing that 8ft fence with a much more serious 12ft one now.
> 
> https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/1349859915574206467



They are installing concrete dividers, not a "12 foot wall". There are also no pictures as of 30 minutes ago showing anything that appears taller then 8 feet.

The "Crane" that you can see in the tweet video is used to grab and install concrete dividers... That's what that "clamp" is used for at the end of the boom.
Compare the stills to the following pictures below them.

Also don't forget, the current president is still Donald Trump so if anyone is putting up "walls" it's still under Trumps presidency. Other then the clear fact that it's actually a fence.




 

 

 

 

 



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



realtimesave said:


> this country needs a stronger leader, not some old geezer that seems a bit wimpy.  I am not saying we should keep trump though, that guy is a loose cannon.



What may physically appear wimpy to you, may end up surprising you. He probably has bigger balls then trump and is ready to stand firm against Russia, China and North Korea unlike Trump who was too pussy to cross them. Trump rather retreat then stand his ground in other countries to support peace and to support DMZ's. All Trump does is RETREAT and builds a wall around himself. He's a fucken pussy! So yeah I believe President Joe Biden will be 10 times the man Trump is and ever will be.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> You call tell Biden is love by the People when he needs a freaking army marching and setting up walls on what I'm calling now Fortress DC
> Trump never call the army to march for him in DC
> 4 years of the Biden dictatorship will be interesting



Ohh hello, this must be Tabzer or shamzie with a new burner account. Lol
Your ill informed... Trump is still president so Biden cannot order the army to do anything and he cannot tell anyone to build those fences... This is all done while Trump is still president.By the way, Biden is not a dictator, you may actually be pleasantly surprised that President Joe Biden will do more for America, than Trump has ever done in his whole life. Stop watching fake FOX news and stop being so ignorant.


----------



## notimp (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Considering we know that some of the capitol police officers let insurrectionists just waltz through the front gate, screening procedures should've been in place from the beginning.


Ehm? On a crowd? You chinese by any chance? 

edit: Ah sorry - misunderstood.

But still partly false.

Insurectionists used reverse psychological tactics to breach police lines pretty quickly, and the capitol police _was_ understaffed, thanks to our beloved allseeing three later agencies, that didnt see that one coming - again.

So for that case, the procedure is to 'retract' anyhow. (Stand firm until the people are in the tunnels..  )

And by didnt see it coming I dont mean 'do screenings on people attending demonstrations'.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> This isn't comprehensive, took about 10 minutes. If you were following the news when these things were happening, you'd know about and remember the events I'm referring to. Although there was one event where a young man trying to defend his store was beaten quite apparently to death. And by that I mean head stomped, limbs pointing in all the directions, etc, left unconscious and laughed at by the perps. But I was surprised to find out while pulling up these links that he survived. I couldn't find details about his condition ... could be paralyzed for life, could be brain damaged. But he didn't die.
> 
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/21/us/minneapolis-protest-body-found/index.html
> ...



I took the time to read every single link you posted...
First of all, all of the deaths except for one are black and brown people.

The majority of the deaths are from unknown killers, so you cannot say that these are due to  BLM protesters cause it could very well be from the far right groups.

One person that was caught killing a black person in the streets during a riot was a young White person that is now in jail.

The white woman who was killed at night under a bridge had an altercation with some blacks where her husband pulled out a gun on them, she was later shot in a second altercation with the same people.

The older retired police officer was shot dead as he was "protecting" a local pawn shop from looters at night.

There is no proof that any of those shootings are related to the peaceful protests that took place during the day. What took place at night was NOT BLM because there was a curfew and BLM people were following Floyd's family's request and are mostly law abiding citizens. The people that committed those crimes were just random people... Not to be assossiated to the BLM just because they are either black or whatever stupid opinion you may have.

Now in regards to the Capitol riots, all of that violence where they beat cops and broke everything inside the capitol and chanted hang Mike Pence and chanted kill Pelosi where they also killed a Capitol police... This all happened in the day, this all happened with these Trump followers... This is all filmed and these people have mostly all been or will be arrested.

So please, don't try to assossiated or relate BLM peaceful day protests to the illegal shit show that tried to disrupt and destroy our democracy inside the capitol.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

.... In other news...

*Russia follows US in withdrawal from Open Skies Treaty compounding the challenges faced by the incoming administration of president-elect Joe Biden.*

*Source:  https://apnews.com/article/russia-leaves-open-skies-treaty-e58019b80ae95e12007265aedfac229b*

*White Army vet charged in shooting Black girl at Trump rally*

*Source:  https://apnews.com/article/race-and...y-des-moines-18c07e4efae400f2ebab63ee052f6c57

Twitter suspends US congresswoman over election fraud claims

Source:  https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...eorgia-media-782684cf4bbe2bf1b5ac0963ffe6957d

Mexico says US ‘fabricated’ charges, releases evidence

Soutce:  https://apnews.com/article/mexico-e...-trafficking-a54eb46084fd31fa06f5a840eafafa86*

*From Baked Alaska to a guy with horns: notable riot arrests. *
*More than 125 people have been arrested so far on charges related to the violent insurrection led by supporters of President Donald Trump at the U.S. Capitol*

*Source:  https://apnews.com/article/donald-t...-media-riots-709fca95f4e3dce9e40c440d96dcd006*


.... All during Trumps last days...


----------



## notimp (Jan 18, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> *Mexico says US ‘fabricated’ charges, releases evidence*
> 
> Soutce: https://apnews.com/article/mexico-e...-trafficking-a54eb46084fd31fa06f5a840eafafa86





> Under the pressure of Mexico’s implicit threats to restrict or expel U.S. agents, U.S. prosecutors dropped their case so Cienfuegos could be returned to Mexico and investigated under Mexican law.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

notimp said:


> Under the pressure of Mexico’s implicit threats to restrict or expel U.S. agents, U.S. prosecutors dropped their case so Cienfuegos could be returned to Mexico and investigated under Mexican law.



Yeah, how ridiculous is this. I don't know if this has anything to do with Trump, but man... *facepalm*

And the last part:

“It was preordained that Mexican justice would not move forward with prosecuting General Cienfuegos,” Vigil said. “It will greatly stain the integrity of its judicial system and despite the political rhetoric of wanting to eliminate corruption, such is obviously not the case. The rule of law has been significantly violated.”

Wtf...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


This one is better explained actually :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mexico...rug-trafficking-is-faulted-by-u-s-11610839780


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> Nobody has any delusions of continually winning because of the cyclical nature of Politics.


cool we're at the bargaining stage
"didn't even wanna win you guys i don't even feel it"


----------



## notimp (Jan 18, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Yeah, how ridiculous is this. I don't know if this has anything to do with Trump, but man... *facepalm*


Lets say - not Trump.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

smf said:


> I mean who would have asked David Cameron if he ever fucked a pigs head


That's pure speculation and most likely not true.



smf said:


> ukip, whatever farage is calling his party today


Farage is not far right. UKIP is bordering on far right now because he left and it was taken over by loonies. Brexit Party cannot be far right by definition because it's the *Brexit *Party and doesn't comment on anything else.



smf said:


> Tories are a joke, but they are a right wing joke (as right wing parties are)


*A centre-right joke.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Depends how you define left and right.
> Both American parties are right-wing in the sense that they support military aggression around the world.
> Furthermore both reject healthcare for all, as we have just seen. Even AOC and Sanders reject it. It has always just been virtue signaling to get votes. (see "force the vote")
> 
> In the UK both Torries and Labor are left-wing with regards to immigration. Didn´t Boris Johnson basically invite millions of Chinese? This would be unheard of the other way around.


This is why the concept of a solid left wing and right wing begins to break down in the modern day. There's also the issue that everyone likes to think they are closer to the centre than they actually are, so where a party stands on the spectrum is also somewhat subjective. As I've said above, the Conservative Party is centre-right, but you'll have people like smf swearing blind that they are strongly right wing. Spoiler alert, they aren't strong right at all. Of course, its exact position on the spectrum changes a bit with every new leader, but it generally stays within the realms of centre-right.



Frankfort42 said:


> Oh, it seems they've erected a wall around the Capitol. That's sorta weird considering the left claims walls don't work.


No, that's Trump's wall. Biden doesn't get into power until Wednesday, remember? I'm getting sick of your pathetic attempts at propaganda. It reminds me of some morons on twitter 4 years ago just after Trump was elected blaming him for bombing Syria, even though he had only been elected some days ago and couldn't possibly have given orders to bomb Syria at this time. No, those were _Obama's _bombs. You would have hypocritically laughed at that, so don't do the exact same bs please.



White_Raven_X said:


> He probably has bigger balls then trump and is ready to stand firm against Russia, China and North Korea


No, no, no. Trump was the one who started an economic war with China and is losing it _because _he stood firm against China. If you're expecting Biden to come out and publicly condemn those countries, you'd be badly mistaken. No sane leader would do that because it's terrible for diplomacy and the economy. If he's smart, he'll look to strengthen economic ties with both Europe and SE Asia in the fallout of COVID so that China doesn't move even further into those places than it already has. Also, Trump's moves with NK were good. Encouraging a better relationship between the west and NK is good. Yeah, it might be the worst shithole on the planet, but you just can't come out and say that. As a world leader you have to look to build constructive relationships as much as possible, and never be the aggressor. If you publicly condemn countries and other world leaders, you are a bad leader and you're taking your country into a cave. Ironically, that's what makes Trump such a bad politician; he comes out and says whatever he feels like saying. As a president, you shouldn't do that. Soft power matters, and the Chinese understand that. As much as he's an evil dictator, you have to give credit to Jinping; he's a political genius when it comes to using soft power. He knows how to play someone as flawed as Trump to his advantage. And, to be honest, Trump has done a lot of the work for him; many countries have distanced themselves from the US and are now looking to China as a reliable partner because of Trump. Hopefully, Biden and Harris are smarter than Trump is and do what they can to get back that trust and confidence that the US has lost.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> That's pure speculation and most likely not true.



I think you misunderstand what speculation means. Someone didn't say "I think this happened" they claim to have seen photographic evidence.

I don't know how to calculate a probability of it being true.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

omgcat said:
			
		

> this is some low-brow mouth breather level bait. you're legitimately trying to compare a wall less than 2 miles long, actively patrolled by capitol police to a wall to one that would be 1,954 miles long. that's almost 2000 times larger, and like 6 feet taller across the entire length. the fact your would even try to make that argument seriously speaks to your level of critical thinking skills.



Yeah, because it takes so much internal knowledge to see someone scream about walls not working yet then go build walls.



			
				omgcat said:
			
		

> also, a non-edited headline for the caravan is
> "Incoming Biden administration to migrant caravan: Don't come, you won't get in immediately".
> Honduran's seeking asylum would need to wait for the Biden administration to set their immigration policies. that takes time, and we are in a fucking pandemic so they are probably safer waiting until vaccines are distributed.
> for context:
> ...



So when Trump denies migrants entry it's wrong, but when Biden does it you make excuses. Got it.



			
				djpannda said:
			
		

> Hey I feel bad.. you wrote all that
> but just one picture. Made your argument invalid..



If you ever have anything serious to say please do. I'm not sure why you're allowed to simply troll other members and post memes as when Conservatives on this site do that to Liberals their posts are deleted.



			
				Cryoraptor said:
			
		

> No, that's Trump's wall. Biden doesn't get into power until Wednesday, remember? I'm getting sick of your pathetic attempts at propaganda. It reminds me of some morons on twitter 4 years ago just after Trump was elected blaming him for bombing Syria, even though he had only been elected some days ago and couldn't possibly have given orders to bomb Syria at this time. No, those were _Obama's _bombs. You would have hypocritically laughed at that, so don't do the exact same bs please.



No, those walls are being erected to prevent protesters from interfering with Biden's inauguration by restricting access to public property. Though you make a good point. For the next 6 months of so the recovering economy will be be thanks to Trump. We'll have to wait about 6 months until Biden fucks it all up. However, that doesn't change the fact Biden's inauguration is the reason behind the capitol fencing. It's being built for the people who claim "walls don't work".



White_Raven_X said:


> That's not an opinion... It's a fact that Republicans were lied to! Get over it!



There's a reason for the *hundreds* BLM protests and riots and there's a reason for the *single *DC protest and single riot. Whether or not you agree with each happening is your opinion, not fact. You believe one is justified and the other is not. Some people think the DC protests were justified and the BLM were not. Some people think both weren't justified and that includes me. Some don't even care. It's all simply opinions not fact. Though I understand. It's taken your side almost 4 years to realize facts are what matters so I understand you're still getting opinions mixed up with facts. Your side are slow learners after all ...



White_Raven_X said:


> Uhmm... So hang Pence and kill Pelosi was just part of a song or a joke that they kept screaming? Your an idiot, wake up and stop being so ignorant!



Actually you're right. There were a few people out of the couple hundered that were posting and saying these sorts of things. Although, they didn't represent the entire few hundred people (out of the original 100,000+). They were a small fraction of the minority.



White_Raven_X said:


> So video evidence of them saying that isn't enough proof for you? Again... Your ignorant!



See above.



White_Raven_X said:


> Maybe because people didn't die in BLM and because they aren't attacking the democracy of America... Again ignorant comments from Weiner boy!



People were dying every week since the BLM riots started back before summer. Much more people have died in the BLM rioting all of this last year compared to the 3 or 4 from the single DC riot. I honestly haven't kept count, but it seems after a quick search @Hanafuda was able to find a few of them.



White_Raven_X said:


> Do you not realise how ridiculous it is to attack the actually democracy of America... Your pretty much going against democracy because a proven liar is telling everyone that he won when he can't even prove it in court. Trump is going against democracy and trying to get everyone to go against democracy as well... This country is made on democracy. Trump would turn it into Russia or China. Ignorant!



In his and their eyes the election was rigged and it could have been. They believed they were doing the right thing just like the people who support BLM believe they are doing the right thing. It boils down to personal opinions and if you agree with either cause. I don't agree with the hundreds of BLM protests or the single DC protest.



White_Raven_X said:


> Also don't forget, the current president is still Donald Trump so if anyone is putting up "walls" it's still under Trumps presidency. Other then the clear fact that it's actually a fence.



Brick Detention Cells vs Metal Cages. Fence vs Wall. They are all barriers to keep people in or out and they do work. Also, the walls are being erected for Biden not for Trump.



monkeyman4412 said:


> One side doesn't want police brutality.
> The terrorists that went to to the capital was not.
> Tell me, did any of the BLM protestors place bombs?
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/06/dc-protests-trump-rally-live-updates/
> Did any of them outright want to kill government officials? The two sides are not equivalent in the slightest



There's no difference between killing normal citizens compared to kill government officials. The BLM protesters also had lots of explosive devices that were actually used against people they didn't agree with and the police. They had Molotov cocktails and other improvised incendiary devices (such as napalm) they were throwing at others, which a lot resulted in the victims being severally burnt or even killed. The rioters in Portland just a couple of weeks ago were attacking the police with such devices. The difference between the BLM devices and the two pipe bombs found in DC is that the pipe bombs weren't used.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Yeah sure, "kill Mike Pence" definitely doesn't mean that they were out to kill.
> Just casually chanting it like a normal angry mob.
> perhaps they really wanted tea time with Mike Pence.



Actually, you are sorta right about this one. A few rioters out of the few hundred that broke off of the main 100,000 people protest did indeed call for harm to become various political members. So I was wrong.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Why should I?
> Again, one side fucking planted bombs, one didn't.
> Also where it was planted also matters.



The difference is the bombs weren't used compared to the BLM riots where many devices were used to mame and kill.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Oh I'm sorry. I forgot. I actually care about democracy. Perhaps killing democratically elected leaders, is somehow. idk undemocratic.  OH, and before you try to state, since I've heard this defense before
> "Well you see, they didn't kill any leaders. so it couldn't be proven"
> explain again why pipe bombs were placed in the capital? Idk about you but that shows explicit intent.
> Also, if your going to argue "well it was just one person"
> ...



I am considering the size of the group. There were 2 pipe bombs and 100,000 people and to this day no one knows who placed those pipe bombs. The bombs were found and disposed of. Now if you contrast that to the BLM riots and how many Molotov cocktails and napalm containing devices were actually used a couple of pipe bombs that didn't even go off don't even compare.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Yeah, because it takes so much internal knowledge to see someone scream about walls not working yet then go build walls.


Your fixation with this is bloody hilarious because there is no comparison between a wall built to stop illegals getting into the country and a wall to stop terrorists.

You know fine well anyway wanting illegally into America can do it by plane or boat or by tunnel or in the back of a lorry or by a number of other means. All the wall does is make them go with some other option to get in.

The security wall around the capital has 20,000 National Guard troops protecting it. There is no time for anyone to built tunnels to bypass it. They can't use a boat or a lorry to bypass it. And any plane in unauthorised airspace will be shot down. The terrorists have no option other than to try get over it which will end with them being shot to death  so to compare the both as you are is quite frankly insane.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Your fixation with this is bloody hilarious because there is no comparison between a wall built to stop illegals getting into the country and a wall to stop terrorists.
> 
> You know fine well anyway wanting illegally into America can do it by plane or boat or by tunnel or in the back of a lorry or by a number of other means. All the wall does is make them go with some other option to get in.
> 
> The security wall around the capital has 20,000 National Guard troops protecting it. There is no time for anyone to built tunnels to bypass it. They can't use a boat or a lorry to bypass it. And any plane in unauthorised airspace will be shot down. The terrorists have no option other than to try get over it which will end with them being shot to death  so to compare the both as you are is quite frankly insane.



Yeah, comparing structures meant to keep people in or out is insane. What I should be doing is comparing things that don't compare with each other, right?


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Yeah, comparing structures meant to keep people in or out is insane. What I should be doing is comparing things that don't compare with each other, right?


No you should be smart enough to realise and to  to work out a wall to stop immigration does not work when the illegals have numerous other options. And smart enough to work out a anti terrorist wall/fence only gives terrorists one option and that is go over the wall and get their ass blown away.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Encouraging a better relationship between the west and NK is good. Yeah, it might be the worst shithole on the planet, but you just can't come out and say that.


I can think of a lot worse places than North Korea. Considering the complete destruction in the Korean war and its economic isolation until today, it is remarkable what they achieved militarily.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> ...



Was that supposed to be a joke, because the last four years the only ones who're laughing were the Party that won.
Bargaining would entail unpreparedness for the outcome, which only amateurs would assume their senior members are.

It has to be said, the are a lot of butthurts that I'm pointing out a fact; how is that any different than what the Right supporters are feeling now.

People who can't see the intelligence of their counterparts are as shallow as their own vision.
That is more so in Politics, especially when amateurs can't see the cycle and don't understand that to get  anything past is to have both come to a mutual agreement.

It takes understanding and cooperation to achieve that which, by definition, means that the counterpart is initially not of the same position nor with the same goal.

But you do you and that Couch Politician thing you have going.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> No you should be smart enough to realise and to  to work out a wall to stop immigration does not work when the illegals have numerous other options. And smart enough to work out a anti terrorist wall/fence only gives terrorists one option and that is go over the wall and get their assets blown away.



Look, I understand. Walls magically stop working if Trump looks at them favorably. I know "orange man bad" and anything he does or supports you suddenly have to hate. I get it, I'm just not infected with TDS.

Yes, you can circumvent walls, but they do work as a pretty good deterrent. Even if you dig under them, break them down or go over they will slow you down. They aren't perfect, but they are better than nothing.

You see though, it's not about the walls, it's about allowing people to come and go as they please, commit all sorts of crimes like human trafficking and drug running and use our resources without having to contribute. Why would any sane person want this to happen? They want criminals to run rampant to destroy the USA. We have enemies that want to take us for all we have then destroy us, as you can see with the attacks from Liberals on our way of life (family unit, patriotism, etc ...). You may think that sounds paranoid, but it's true and our enemies use gullible people like yourself to perpetrate their criminal actions. You're even none the wiser because you simply hate Trump and they know that and are using you. It's a shame, but that's reality for you. Whether you like it or not you either support the USA or want to tear it down. The ones who want to tear it down are our enemies.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Look, I understand. Walls magically stop working if Trump looks at them favorably. I know "orange man bad" and anything he does or supports you suddenly have to hate. I get it, I'm just not infected with TDS.
> 
> Yes, you can circumvent walls, but they do work as a pretty good deterrent. Even if you dig under them, break them down or go over they will slow you down. They aren't perfect, but they are better than nothing.
> 
> You see though, it's not about the walls, it's about allowing people to come and go as they please, commit all sorts of crimes like human trafficking and drug running and use our resources without having to contribute. Why would any sane person want this to happen? They want criminals to run rampant to destroy the USA. We have enemies that want to take us for all we have then destroy us, as you can see with the attacks from Liberals on our way of life (family unit, patriotism, etc ...). You may think that sounds paranoid, but it's true and our enemies use gullible people like yourself to perpetrate their criminal actions. You're even none the wiser because you simply hate Trump and they know that and are using you. It's a shame, but that's reality for you. Whether you like it or not you either support the USA or want to tear it down. The ones who want to tear it down our are enemies.


ok boomer


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 18, 2021)

I haven't slept in seventeen hours and *I HAVE CRACKED THE CODE.*
There is proof of widespread voter fraud.
You may be thinking "ooh, this motherf***er salty", and *YES, THIS GUY IS SALTY,* because in two days, a demented communist with a crackhead son is preparing to sit his pedo ass down on his throne of lies.
Now, here's the godd*mn evidence: these graphs.




I know what you're thinking: "nah, fam, just mail-ins", but if that's the case, then how do you explain the fact that *there is no curve at the top?* It sounds ridiculous, I know, but it's illogical for votes to simply flatline after such a spike. Also, how did Trump not get any of the votes? How?
There are only two explanations: either *all* the mail-ins were counted *at once*, in the *middle* of counting the in-person ballots, and not* a single* mail-in went to Trump, or there is evidence of widespread voter fraud.

Actually, scratch that first possibility, because Georgia's senate vote started with mail-ins, and then did the real votes. Let's see _those_ graphs.





_Well, would you look at that!
_
I rest my case. *Trump won.*


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I haven't slept in seventeen hours and *I HAVE CRACKED THE CODE.*
> There is proof of widespread voter fraud.
> You may be thinking "ooh, this motherf***er salty", and *YES, THIS GUY IS SALTY,* because in two days, a demented communist with a crackhead son is preparing to sit his pedo ass down on his throne of lies.
> Now, here's the godd*mn evidence: these graphs.
> ...


first off, mail-in votes are "real votes"- I don't know what drugs you are on or how I can ban them, but you can't just no-true-scotsman any votes you don't like
second off, you sound like a delusional conspiracy theorist, which is in fact what you are right now
third off, Trump told his base not to mail in votes. Biden told his base _to_ mail in votes. Gee, I sure wonder why all the mail-in votes are for Biden?
fourth off... ok voteflake


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Makes ya think, don't it?

(Disclaimer: Since @djpannda can post memes without action from the mods I will post one too. If I can't post then it would only be fair for the mods to go delete the 20+ memes he's posted in this thread and others).


----------



## ut2k4master (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> ...


there were mail in votes for trump just a lot less because he always told his base that mail in voting is fake. those graph shows millions of votes, of course there wont be such a big spike when only thousands voted for him that way


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 18, 2021)

Walls only work in non-western countries and Israel. It is a mystery.
China has a much more difficult border to defend and somehow manages it (including preventing drug trafficking and Jihadis from entering - of which there are none in Mexico).


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 18, 2021)

ut2k4master said:


> there were mail in votes for trump just a lot less because he always told his base that mail in voting is fake. those graph shows millions of votes, of course there wont be such a big spike when only thousands voted for him that way


Understandable.
But Biden's votes didn't curve off.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Makes ya think, don't it?
> 
> (Disclaimer: Since @djpannda can post memes without action from the mods I will post one too. If I can't post then it would only be fair for the mods to go delete the 20+ memes he's posted in this thread and others).
> 
> ...


This falls apart once you realize that they stormed the Capitol to _*keep*_ the government white-supremacist by keeping Trump in power and that the police force did jack shit compared to what they did to peaceful BLM protests.
They weren't really "stopped", to be honest. They weren't even impeded- some of the police _*HELPED THEM ENTER.*_ Paul Blart, Capitol Cop.




UltraSUPRA said:


> Understandable.
> But Biden's votes didn't curve off.


because they _did _count that last chunk of mail-ins at once
of course the curve is going to be weird and jarring
it's what happens when an entire party basically all sends their votes by mail to avoid a pandemic


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> The security wall around the capital has 20,000 National Guard troops protecting it. There is no time for anyone to built tunnels to bypass it. They can't use a boat or a lorry to bypass it. And any plane in unauthorised airspace will be shot down. The terrorists have no option other than to try get over it which will end with them being shot to death  so to compare the both as you are is quite frankly insane.



You could build a tunnel to get past it with enough resources, but then I'd kinda wonder why anyone would bother.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Walls only work in non-western countries and Israel. It is a mystery.
> China has a much more difficult border to defend and somehow manages it (including preventing drug trafficking and Jihadis from entering - of which there are none in Mexico).



If you think it's a mystery then you probably need some geography lessons.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I haven't slept in seventeen hours and *I HAVE CRACKED THE CODE.*
> There is proof of widespread voter fraud.
> You may be thinking "ooh, this motherf***er salty", and *YES, THIS GUY IS SALTY,* because in two days, a demented communist with a crackhead son is preparing to sit his pedo ass down on his throne of lies.
> Now, here's the godd*mn evidence: these graphs.
> ...



I know it sucks that Trump lost, but you gotta let it go. I mean, look at the way the Liberals let their hatred for Trump and refusal to accept the 2016 election results influence their behavior. They were like demented house wives that husbands cheated on them ... no logic, pure hate and rage. The Liberals have looked so stupid the last 4 years for rejecting the 2016 election results and not calling Trump their President when he is the President of the USA and is your President (and has been for 4 years).

There's been over 60 court cases in various States and none of them have come up with any major evidence of systemic cheating. There's really no evidence that Biden *lost *and if they did "steal the election" then it's over with. I implore you. Don't be as dumb as the Liberals are.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> and not calling Trump their President when he is the President of the USA and is your President.



Saying "not my president" doesn't mean what you keep trying to say it means.

Republicans can equally say that Biden is not their president if they don't feel he is racist enough for them.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I know it sucks that Trump lost, but you gotta let it go. I mean, look at the way the Liberals let their hatred for Trump and refusal to accept the 2016 election results influence their behavior. They were like demented house wives that husbands cheated on them ... no logic, pure hate and rage. The Liberals have looked so stupid the last 4 years for rejecting the 2016 election results and not calling Trump their President when he is the President of the USA and is your President.
> 
> There's been over 60 court cases in various States and none of them have come up with any major evidence of systemic cheating. There's really no evidence that Biden won and if they did "steal the election" then it's over with. I implore you. Don't be as dumb as the Liberals are.


...Wow. That's... a surprisingly good spark of reason. Buried under three pathos gambits, but still. *applause*




I'm not even trying to be sarcastic, I'm just pleasantly surprised you'd admit there's no evidence of widespread fraud.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I know it sucks that Trump lost, but you gotta let it go. I mean, look at the way the Liberals let their hatred for Trump and refusal to accept the 2016 election results influence their behavior. They were like demented house wives that husbands cheated on them ... no logic, pure hate and rage. The Liberals have looked so stupid the last 4 years for rejecting the 2016 election results and not calling Trump their President when he is the President of the USA and is your President.
> 
> There's been over 60 court cases in various States and none of them have come up with any major evidence of systemic cheating. There's really no evidence that Biden won and if they did "steal the election" then it's over with. I implore you. Don't be as dumb as the Liberals are.


Finally. Now you're on my page. Only problem is I think that bit at the end is a typo; should say 'Trump', not 'Biden'. But yes, you're correct. People who are believing this nonsense are acting just like Hillary apologists did back in 2016-17, and I'm sure said people took part in the massive meming of these Hillary apologists. Ergo they are hypocrites.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Finally. Now you're on my page. Only problem is I think that bit at the end is a typo; should say 'Trump', not 'Biden'. But yes, you're correct. People who are believing this nonsense are acting just like Hillary apologists did back in 2016-17, and I'm sure said people took part in the massive meming of these Hillary apologists. Ergo they are hypocrites.


In 2016, when I woke up to find that Trump had won, my first sentence on the matter was "Welp, we're doomed."
I was pissed, mostly because Trump had managed to get elected despite putting his sheer scumminess on public display throughout his campaign. I knew that part of the reason he won was the constant "but her emails" deflection and mudslinging, but I never tried grasping at straws in order to pull accusations of widespread election fraud out of my ass.
The Trumpers told me and my fellow Dems to "deal with it", and to a certain extent we did.
Now, a decent chunk of said Trumpers are demonstrably failing to "deal" with the election results.
Oh, how the turns have tabled.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I know it sucks that Trump lost, but you gotta let it go. I mean, look at the way the Liberals let their hatred for Trump and refusal to accept the 2016 election results influence their behavior. They were like demented house wives that husbands cheated on them ... no logic, pure hate and rage. The Liberals have looked so stupid the last 4 years for rejecting the 2016 election results and not calling Trump their President when he is the President of the USA and is your President (and has been for 4 years).
> 
> There's been over 60 court cases in various States and none of them have come up with any major evidence of systemic cheating. There's really no evidence that Biden *lost *and if they did "steal the election" then it's over with. I implore you. Don't be as dumb as the Liberals are.


I understand where you're coming from, but the "don't be like them" mentality is the main reason why we always lose at everything.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

smf said:


> Saying "not my president" doesn't mean what you keep trying to say it means.
> 
> Republicans can equally say that Biden is not their president if they don't feel he is racist enough for them.



If Republicans would claim Biden isn't their President for the next 4 years they'd be delusional idiots just like the Liberals have been for the last 4 years. If you're a citizen of the USA then *Trump is your President* and has been for 4 years. If you're a USA citizen then in a few days Biden will be your President. Claiming "he's not my President" is not correct. So you don't like Trump? Okay, he's still YOUR PRESIDENT.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> In 2016, when I woke up to find that Trump had won, my first sentence on the matter was "Welp, we're doomed."
> I was pissed, mostly because Trump had managed to get elected despite putting his sheer scumminess on public display throughout his campaign. I knew that part of the reason he won was the constant "but her emails" deflection and mudslinging, but I never tried grasping at straws in order to pull accusations of widespread election fraud out of my ass.
> The Trumpers told me and my fellow Dems to "deal with it", and to a certain extent we did.
> Now, a decent chunk of said Trumpers are demonstrably failing to "deal" with the election results.
> Oh, how the turns have tabled.


Yes, exactly. Trumptards are acting exactly like the Hillarytards were in 2016-17, which they _memed the shit out of them _for. It's almost like Trumptards are no different from SJWs, wouldn't you say?!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> I understand where you're coming from, but the "don't be like them" mentality is the main reason why we always lose at everything.


I feel like you, Frankford and Tabzer are all coordinated trolls/Poes lmfao


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If Republicans would claim Biden isn't their President for the next 4 years they'd be delusional idiots just like the Liberals have been for the last 4 years. If you're a citizen of the USA then *Trump is your President* and has been for 4 years. If you're a USA citizen then in a few days Biden will be your President. Claiming "he's not my President" is not correct. So you don't like Trump? Okay, he's still YOUR PRESIDENT.


Eh, it's still a difference of meaning.
We've been using "not my President" to mean "he is my President, but I don't support him one bit and find his ideals utterly abhorrent". The 2020 election deniers are using it to mean "I don't believe this man is legitimately my President".
Trump is my President, but not "my" President. See?


Cryoraptor said:


> I feel like you, Frankford and Tabzer are all coordinated trolls/Poes lmfao


honestly despite Frankfort being a week-or-two-old burner account, I'd vouch for his legitimacy.
not very often such a hardcore trumper is willing to admit that the evidence points to Biden winning legit.
tabzer though, yeah he's 100% poe
edit: _scratch that they're both poes_


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> If Republicans would claim Biden isn't their President for the next 4 years they'd be delusional idiots just like the Liberals have been for the last 4 years. If you're a citizen of the USA then *Trump is your President* and has been for 4 years. If you're a USA citizen then in a few days Biden will be your President. Claiming "he's not my President" is not correct. So you don't like Trump? Okay, he's still YOUR PRESIDENT.


Yes, good, you're beginning to make sense. Have you forgotten to switch to your pro-Biden account?


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> In 2016, when I woke up to find that Trump had won, my first sentence on the matter was "Welp, we're doomed."
> I was pissed, mostly because Trump had managed to get elected despite putting his sheer scumminess on public display throughout his campaign. I knew that part of the reason he won was the constant "but her emails" deflection and mudslinging, but I never tried grasping at straws in order to pull accusations of widespread election fraud out of my ass.
> The Trumpers told me and my fellow Dems to "deal with it", and to a certain extent we did.
> Now, a decent chunk of said Trumpers are demonstrably failing to "deal" with the election results.
> Oh, how the turns have tabled.



Well, your fears never came to pass. Even with the World being crippled by a pandemic Trump was able to keep our economy growing. Sure, there's minor issues that the Leftist media says are completely horrible, but the truth of the matter is that Trump did a much better job with our country than Obama said was possible.

Also, if you're a leftist that has denied Trump was your President for the last 4 years then you have no ground to stand on a judge Conservatives that might say the same thing about Biden.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> So you don't like Trump? Okay, he's still YOUR PRESIDENT.



No, he's THE president of the united states of america.

Whether he is your president is down to preference & it's a first amendment right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Makes ya think, don't it?
> 
> (Disclaimer: Since @djpannda can post memes without action from the mods I will post one too. If I can't post then it would only be fair for the mods to go delete the 20+ memes he's posted in this thread and others).


AMERICA!!!, Where People cannot  be White Supremacist openly in public!!
Please go back in the Closet now..


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Well, your fears never came to pass. Even with the World being crippled by a pandemic Trump was able to keep our economy growing. Sure, there's minor issues that the Leftist media says are completely horrible, but the truth of the matter is that Trump did a much better job with our country than Obama said was possible.
> 
> Also, if you're a leftist that has denied Trump was your President for the last 4 years then you have no ground to stand on a judge Conservatives that might say the same thing about Biden.


Even ignoring everything else, Trump catastrophically mishandled this pandemic. It took months and months to get the guy to stop acting like it was "just a flu", let alone wear a mask in public! He's a good chunk of the reason so many people have endangered themselves and others through not taking proper precautions.
And I haven't denied Trump being my President. I may hate the man with every fiber of my being, but I'm not going to act like he didn't really win the election unless I have evidence- and just like this time, there's no evidence of any outright meddling.

Also, from the article djpannda linked:
"Organizers of the protest stated that although Trump was the president, they wanted to show that he did not represent their values."
This is what we meant by "not my President". Sure, he is (or, starting in two days, was) the President of my nation, so he is "my President", but he certainly isn't "my" President in any way, shape or form.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Yes, good, you're beginning to make sense. Have you forgotten to switch to your pro-Biden account?



I'm not sure who you've been talking to, but the majority of the Republican party and the majority of the Conservatives accept Trump lost. There's around a couple hundred thousand who say they don't accept it compared to 60+ million that do. Of course, if your only source is listening to the Liberal media then it's understandable. I'd suggest you go hang with some Conservatives for a while and you'd quickly realize most of us accept the loss. You know not knowing your adversary isn't a good tactic. You should familiarize yourself with your opponent. The problem is the left (your leaders, buddies, peers, friends, etc ...) will all shame you for visiting Conservative sources and that's a given because they don't want you to learn the truth. If you could just open your eyes and see how crooked the left is you'd probably shit yourself for being so gullible.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

https://columbiachronicle.com/opinion-saying-not-my-president-is-not-the-same-as-stop-the-count

“When people said ‘Not my president,’ they meant ‘I don’t like this man. He is not representing me,’” Ackelsberg said. “That’s not the same as saying ‘This election did not take place,’ or ‘This election was fraudulent.’”


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I'm not sure who you've been talking to, but the majority of the Republican party and the majority of the Conservatives accept Trump lost. There's around a couple hundred thousand who say they don't accept it compared to 60+ million that do. Of course, if your only source is listening to the Liberal media then it's understandable. I'd suggest you go hang with some Conservatives for a while and you'd quickly realize most of us accept the loss. You know not knowing your adversary isn't a good tactic. You should familiarize yourself with your opponent. The problem is the left (your leaders, buddies, peers, friends, etc ...) will all shame you for visiting Conservative sources and that's a given because they don't want you to learn the truth. If you could just open your eyes and see how crooked the left is you'd probably shit yourself for being so gullible.


Damn, you were so close- but you had to lapse back in to condescension and batshit insane accusations.
The main examples of hardcore Trump supporters on this thread are tabzer, shamzie, UltraSUPRA and you... and you're the only one of the four with enough brain cells to realize Biden won legitimately and enough guts to admit it.
Looks like those are the last milestones for those that you hit, though. A pity.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I'm not sure who you've been talking to, but the majority of the Republican party and the majority of the Conservatives accept Trump lost. There's around a couple hundred thousand who say they don't accept it compared to 60+ million that do. Of course, if your only source is listening to the Liberal media then it's understandable. I'd suggest you go hang with some Conservatives for a while and you'd quickly realize most of us accept the loss. You know not knowing your adversary isn't a good tactic. You should familiarize yourself with your opponent. The problem is the left (your leaders, buddies, peers, friends, etc ...) will all shame you for visiting Conservative sources and that's a given because they don't want you to learn the truth. If you could just open your eyes and see how crooked the left is you'd probably shit yourself for being so gullible.


...Mate, you do realise I'm centrist right? I'm not a liberal, nor do I believe leftist propaganda. In the same way, I don't believe your right wing blame game politics, "it's all their fault". Honestly sounds like the Nazis saying "It's all the Jews' fault, stop listening to the Jewish media, go look up some conservative sources that Jews shame you for looking, once you see how crooked the Jews are you'll probably shit yourself for being so gullible".

Also, Wikipedia seems to disagree with your statement (is Wikipedia leftist propaganda too?):

"A December 2020 poll showed 77% of Republicans believe widespread fraud occurred during the election. 35% of independent voters also said they believe widespread voter fraud took place. Overall, 60% of Americans believed Biden's win was legitimate, 34% did not, and 6% were unsure. Another poll taken in late December showed a similar result, with 62% of Americans polled believing Biden was the legitimate winner of the election, while 37% did not. This split in popular opinion remained largely stable, with a January 10, 2021, poll commissioned by ABC News showing 68% of Americans believed Biden’s win was legitimate and 32% did not."

Note: Citations are provided in the article.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> Damn, you were so close- but you had to lapse back in to condescension and batshit insane accusations.
> The main examples of hardcore Trump supporters on this thread are tabzer, shamzie, UltraSUPRA and you... and you're the only one of the four with enough brain cells to realize Biden won legitimately and enough guts to admit it.
> Looks like those are the last milestones for those that you hit, though. A pity.


I could've sworn he was arguing for election fraud when he was barking on about 'leftist media'. Perhaps his message is so convoluted in its scaremongering tactics that it's nigh impossible to work out what it is.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I understand where you're coming from, but the "don't be like them" mentality is the main reason why we always lose at everything.



The problem with lying, cheating and stealing is when you win you actually didn't win anything. You may get the trophy or your candidate in office, but you sold your soul to do so. There's a reason why the Liberals are so miserable and need marijuana or pills to simply function. It's because lying, cheating, manipulating, stealing and basically sinning in general always results in negative outcomes even if on the surface it looks like you've won.



smf said:


> No, he's THE president of the united states of america.
> 
> Whether he is your president is down to preference & it's a first amendment right.



If you're a USA citizen then Trump is your President. It's not a personal preference. It was decided in an election in 2016. Face facts for once in your life.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> ...Mate, you do realise I'm centrist right? I'm not a liberal, nor do I believe leftist propaganda. In the same way, I don't believe your right wing blame game politics, "it's all their fault". Honestly sounds like the Nazis saying "It's all the Jews' fault, stop listening to the Jewish media, go look up some conservative sources that Jews shame you for looking, once you see how crooked the Jews are you'll probably shit yourself for being so gullible".
> 
> Also, Wikipedia seems to disagree with your statement (is Wikipedia leftist propaganda too?):
> 
> ...


that man seriously tried to slap a metric ton of "liberal bias" accusations on to _you_
like do I need to _direct_ this man to your sig, where I can quote you quoting me on why it's a terrible idea to accuse you of partisan bias?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> There's a reason why the Liberals are so miserable and need marijuana or pills to simply function. It's because lying, cheating, manipulating, stealing and basically sinning in general always results in negative outcomes even if on the surface it looks like you've won.


I can't say I've ever smoked pot for any of those things. I've mostly smoked it because I like getting stoned.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Plasmaster09 said:


> that man seriously tried to slap a metric ton of "liberal bias" accusations on to _you_
> like do I need to _direct_ this man to your sig, where I can quote you quoting me on why it's a terrible idea to accuse you of partisan bias?


I'm starting to think he's a troll. Another one bites the dust


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Even ignoring everything else, Trump catastrophically mishandled this pandemic. It took months and months to get the guy to stop acting like it was "just a flu", let alone wear a mask in public! He's a good chunk of the reason so many people have endangered themselves and others through not taking proper precautions.



I agree his response wasn't perfect, but you do realize what the Left was doing when he was responding? Trump started to take action in late December and got push back from the liberals for 2 months, which during the time they downplayed the virus threat and only were focusing on impeaching Trump. I'm not sure how you can critisize Trump's response when the liberals was 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 worse.



			
				Plasmaster09 said:
			
		

> Also, from the article djpannda linked:
> "Organizers of the protest stated that although Trump was the president, they wanted to show that he did not represent their values."
> This is what we meant by "not my President". Sure, he is (or, starting in two days, was) the President of my nation, so he is "my President", but he certainly isn't "my" President in any way, shape or form.



That's about as stupid as claiming things you aren't deadly afraid of are phobias, that black lives are the only lives that matter or there's more than 2 biological sexes.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I agree his response wasn't perfect, but you do realize what the Left was doing when he was responding? Trump started to take action in late December and got push back from the liberals for 2 months, which during the time they downplayed the virus threat and only were focusing on impeaching Trump. I'm not sure how you can critisize Trump's response when the liberals was 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 worse.
> 
> 
> 
> That's about as stupid as claiming things you aren't deadly afraid of are phobias, that black lives are the only lives that matter or there's more than 2 biological sexes.


Yep, troll detected.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I agree his response wasn't perfect, but you do realize what the Left was doing when he was responding? Trump started to take action in late December and got push back from the liberals for 2 months, which during the time they downplayed the virus threat and only were focusing on impeaching Trump. I'm not sure how you can critisize Trump's response when the liberals was 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 worse.
> 
> 
> 
> That's about as stupid as claiming things you aren't deadly afraid of are phobias, that black lives are the only lives that matter or there's more than 2 biological sexes.


We... didn't downplay the virus.
We were just focused on getting Trump out of office so that we could hopefully put in someone that _wouldn't butcher the response so badly._
Also, that last bit is three false equivalencies, a no true scotsman fallacy, the advocacy fallacy, the DARVO gambit, some serious misinformation regarding biological sex and a partridge in a pear tree.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 18, 2021)

This thread is becoming a toxic construct. We should build a wall between us so we can start to heal.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> some serious misinformation regarding biological sex


Ok, we can talk about gender identity all we want, I'm not bothered about that. But it's an objective scientific fact that there are two _biological_ sexes. There are two sex chromosomes, ergo there are two sexes. Intersex doesn't count as a third as it's a defect that leads to a combination of the two sexes. Again, gender identity is another discussion and there's a debate to be had on that one, but the duality of the biological sexes is just a fact.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> This thread is becoming a toxic construct. We should build a wall between us so we can start to heal.


B-b-but that'd be _censorship!_ Muh freeze peach!



Cryoraptor said:


> Ok, we can talk about gender identity all we want, I'm not bothered about that. But it's an objective scientific fact that there are two _biological_ sexes. There are two sex chromosomes, ergo there are two sexes. Intersex doesn't count as a third as it's a defect that leads to a combination of the two sexes. Again, gender identity is another discussion and there's a debate to be had on that one, but the duality of the biological sexes is just a fact.


even if genetic hermaphrodicity or any other "both/neither" are defects, that doesn't make them any less real
"ah yes, my biological sex is DATA OVERFLOW ERROR"
and we both know the "biological sexes" argument frankfort was making was an excuse to shit on gender identity- he probably doesn't even know the difference


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> This thread is becoming a toxic construct. We should build a wall between us so we can start to heal.


Any thread like this devolves into toxic 'no you' and 'but what about x' eventually in the modern political climate. It's inevitable.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Also, Wikipedia seems to disagree with your statement (is Wikipedia leftist propaganda too?):
> 
> "A December 2020 poll showed 77% of Republicans believe widespread fraud occurred during the election. 35% of independent voters also said they believe widespread voter fraud took place. Overall, 60% of Americans believed Biden's win was legitimate, 34% did not, and 6% were unsure. Another poll taken in late December showed a similar result, with 62% of Americans polled believing Biden was the legitimate winner of the election, while 37% did not. This split in popular opinion remained largely stable, with a January 10, 2021, poll commissioned by ABC News showing 68% of Americans believed Biden’s win was legitimate and 32% did not."



Actually, anything on Wikipedia related to politics is mainly written by the Liberal left and good luck getting anything added that promotes Conservatism. The Liberals have the political articles on Wikipedia under lock and key. So yes, Wikipedia's is bias as fuck in that regard. 

For your poll, it's wrong.



			
				UltraDolphinRevolution said:
			
		

> so we can start to heal



I won't be participating in this "healing" with the Left. Count me out.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> even if genetic hermaphrodicity is a defect, that doesn't make it any less real


I'm not denying that it's real, but it can't be a third sex by definition. It's an ambiguous mix between the two and it's up to the person to decide what their gender identity is.



Plasmaster09 said:


> and we both know the "biological sexes" argument frankfort was making was an excuse to shit on gender identity- he probably doesn't even know the difference


Most likely. I'm not responding to him anymore because he's quite obviously a troll to me.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I'm not denying that it's real, but it can't be a third sex by definition. It's an ambiguous mix between the two and it's up to the person to decide what their gender identity is.
> 
> 
> Most likely.


fair point


Frankfort42 said:


> Actually, anything on Wikipedia related to politics is mainly written by the Liberal left and good luck getting anything added that promotes Conservatism. The Liberals have the political articles on Wikipedia under lock and key. So yes, Wikipedia's is bias as fuck in that regard.
> I won't be participating in this "healing" with the Left. Count me out.


1) ah yes, "Wikipedia's is bias as fuck". such perfect grammar. backed up with such brilliant reasoning as "my opinions aren't displayed as facts, so the facts must be wrong since they don't fit with my opinions", too!
2) of course you won't. you're part of the reason that said healing is nigh impossible on a national scale.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I won't be participating in this "healing" with the Left. Count me out.



Time for an oldie but goodie.I bet you're real fun at parties!

Thanks for admitting to be a very huge part of the problem. Clap clap.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Clap clap, slap slap, Trumpers' tantrums full o' crap,
So full o' themselves that their main hobby is taking a f-
**gets tossed out a window*
*
but seriously yeah these guys are trolls


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> but seriously yeah these guys are trolls


To be honest though, we're partly in on it. We want them to keep responding so we can keep fishing for signature-worthy quotes


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> To be honest though, we're partly in on it. We want them to keep responding so we can keep fishing for signature-worthy quotes


Not only do ya got me there, but _ya got me there._ 
also some of the ones we've already grabbed... wow
it shows that tabzer and crew are the rare venn-diagram overlap between people that could be described as a "wannabe Machiavelli" and the people so stupid they think Machiavelli is something you order at Starbucks


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Not what I'm talking about. 2 million votes dispersed throughout the country will not flip any states apart from maybe Georgia, but Biden isn't relying on Georgia anyway. He would still have 290 electoral college votes, ergo he still wins by 20.
> 
> Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?
> 
> ...


Some states were won by as little as 5,000 votes. So illegitimate votes being discarded 100% could swing the election.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Some states were won by as little as 5,000 votes. So illegitimate votes being discarded 100% could swing the election.


There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election.


Sure there isn't


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> As a world leader you have to look to build constructive relationships as much as possible, and never be the aggressor. If you publicly condemn countries and other world leaders, you are a bad leader and you're taking your country into a cave. Ironically, that's what makes Trump such a bad politician



I agree with that. Your right, that's why I say that it's bad what Trump did in regards to Russia, China and North Korea. "Standing firm against them" does not mean condemning them more publicly, but just "not supporting their agenda". Trump is the one who is responsible for putting Kim Jung Hun on the world stage... Trump is the one responsible for screwing up the economy with China, they don't buy as much from Canada and the US anymore. Essentially making other countries ties stronger. That screwed alot of farmers and goods exporters.
Now Putin has taken over many American servers as Trump has been looking the other way. Not to mention Trump has been soft on Putin 37 times (source https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html) Putin has exactly what it wanted, the weakening of American democracy, abandoned international climate and nuclear arms agreements, withdrawal from the World Health Organization, speaking against his own intelligence team and proposing to let Russia back into the G7.... I can go on and on here....

TRUMP fucked up, Big time! The fact that Joe Biden will get us all out of this shit in 4 years will be amazing! He's got alot of work ahead and he has the most amazing team to get those things done!


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Sure there isn't


no there seriously isn't
when even freaking _*FRANKFORT42*_, the dictionary definition of "wingnut", has the sanity to admit there is no evidence of widespread election fraud, you're clearly even crazier to suggest there is


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Some states were won by as little as 5,000 votes. So illegitimate votes being discarded 100% could swing the election.


You avoided the question I put to you. I'll put it here again:

Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?

Please answer it this time.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



White_Raven_X said:


> I agree with that. Your right, that's why I say that it's bad what Trump did in regards to Russia, China and North Korea. "Standing firm against them" does not mean condemning them more publicly, but just "not supporting their agenda". Trump is the one who is responsible for putting Kim Jung Hun on the world stage... Trump is the one responsible for screwing up the economy with China, they don't buy as much from Canada and the US anymore. Essentially making other countries ties stronger. That screwed alot of farmers and goods exporters.
> Now Putin has taken over many American servers as Trump has been looking the other way. Not to mention Trump has been soft on Putin 37 times (source https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html) Putin has exactly what it wanted, the weakening of American democracy, abandoned international climate and nuclear arms agreements, withdrawal from the World Health Organization, speaking against his own intelligence team and proposing to let Russia back into the G7.... I can go on and on here....
> 
> TRUMP fucked up, Big time! The fact that Joe Biden will get us all out of this shit in 4 years will be amazing! He's got alot of work ahead and he has the most amazing team to get those things done!


Ok, fair enough, we're on the same page.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> You avoided the question I put to you. I'll put it here again:
> 
> Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?
> 
> Please answer it this time.


^This. Can't fathom why all the Trumpers are assuming there's widespread fraud when even if every single bit of shitty little anecdotal 'evidence' they have is true, _*he still would've lost.*_ And even if those 2 million allegedly fraudulent votes were, erm, conveniently gerrymandered into the best possible spots for the Trumpers to claim fraud upon, *he still SHOULDN'T have won even if he would've.*
Also, though I assure you I'm not doubting 2016's electoral integrity, keep in mind he lost the popular vote by a good couple few million then too.
Is it that hard to imagine Trump... losing? Anything? And suffering the consequences of it, for the first time in his miserable little life?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> You avoided the question I put to you. I'll put it here again:
> 
> Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?
> 
> Please answer it this time.


"mob rule good"


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Sure there isn't


What is the single best piece of evidence that there was widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election?



UltraSUPRA said:


> "mob rule good"


"Mob rule" is what conservatives yell when they are backed into the corner of arguing against democracy, and it's embarrassing.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "mob rule good"


ah yes
actual fucking democracy = mobocracy
gotta love that brilliant republican equivalency


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> "mob rule good"


So you fundamentally disagree with democracy?


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> "Mob rule" is what conservatives yell when they are backed into the corner of arguing against democracy, and it's embarrassing.


We are a constitutional republic.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

@Frankfort42*Snip* Everything that happened at the capitol was ILLEGAL! Trespassing on restricted land is not at all the same as peaceful protests in the public streets. Also don't you realise that doing what happened to the capitol is directly in contradiction with democracy..... Maybe you don't understand what democracy is... Democracy: a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
The riot at the capitol is in direct contradiction of democracy! Don't you get that phrase *Snip*?!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> We are a constitutional republic.


Answer the question: Do you fundamentally disagree with democracy or not?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> We are a constitutional republic.



Yes we are. How is that at all relevant to my post?
The United States is both a democracy and a republic. We are a democratic-republic.
Democracy is a good thing, and you seem to be arguing against it.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> You avoided the question I put to you. I'll put it here again:
> 
> Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?
> 
> ...



Appallingly, that is not sarcasm. Trump supporters want to live in a bizarro world where courts, congress, or even the vice president, hold the power to chuck the entire electorate into the wastebasket at their leisure, and unilaterally declare the winning candidate.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Yes we are. How is that at all relevant to my post?
> The United States is both a democracy and a republic. We are a democratic-republic.
> Democracy is a good thing, and you seem to be arguing against it.


the fact these guys try to flagrantly defile our democracy by calling it "mob rule" just shows that their dictatorial wishful thinking and their sheer stupidity could easily be summed up as "caramel machiavelliato"


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 18, 2021)

*Snip*

Everything they said is partisan and I can't be bothered to refute everything said in this thread because you're all emotional babies. I'll start with the first and call it a day. "Trump is responsible for putting Kim Jong Hun on the world stage" If they can't even spell his damn name correctly why should I take their criticism seriously? But no, Kim being the leader of a country, one that is actively pursuing nuclear weapons and has been in a perpetual state of war with their neighbours for over 50 years PUT HIM ON THE WORLD STAGE. I'm not going through the rest. *Snip!*


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Everything they said is partisan and I can't be bothered to refute everything said in this thread because you're all emotional babies. I'll start with the first and call it a day. "Trump is responsible for putting Kim Jong Hun on the world stage" If they can't even spell his damn name correctly why should I take their criticism seriously? But no, Kim being the leader of a country, one that is actively pursuing nuclear weapons and has been in a perpetual state of war with their neighbours for over 50 years PUT HIM ON THE WORLD STAGE. I'm not going through the rest. *Snip*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy



I don't need too read it I'll just take your cliffnotes, you being the expert and all.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I don't need too read it I'll just take your cliffnotes, you being the expert and all.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism


----------



## realtimesave (Jan 18, 2021)

I don't think this is a powerful leader bro.  He even is undoing the restriction on Moslem countries. lol.  let's see what else he meddles with.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

*Snip*



realtimesave said:


> I don't think this is a powerful leader bro.  He even is undoing the restriction on Moslem countries. lol.  let's see what else he meddles with.


gee, maybe it's because a restriction on several countries just because of their national or most common religion is a fundamentally unsound policy as well as a sign of bigotry over reason


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 18, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex
> 
> this is like the third time now that some dipshit has called Cryo a liberal and a) acted like that's an insult and b) actually seriously accused the most aggressively centrist guy I've ever seen on the internet of _liberal bias_ in some way



https://thecritic.co.uk/the-left-wing-bias-of-wikipedia/


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

shamzie said:


> https://thecritic.co.uk/the-left-wing-bias-of-wikipedia/


one of the first links I get when I search for that site is some bullshit about how white privilege "isn't a thing" so yeah I'm _*sure*_ they're _*totally unbiased*_ and you can _*definitely*_ trust one small journal with their head up their ass over a large team of admins and a massive editor base bent on preventing misinformation
claiming that even wikipedia is left-biased is a sure sign a site is just far-right wingnuttery


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

*Snip*



Plasmaster09 said:


> one of the first links I get when I search for that site is some bullshit about how white privilege "isn't a thing" so yeah I'm _*sure*_ they're _*totally unbiased*_ and you can _*definitely*_ trust one small journal with their head up their ass over a large team of admins and a massive editor base bent on preventing misinformation
> claiming that even wikipedia is left-biased is a sure sign a site is just far-right wingnuttery


I wouldn't even respond to him anymore. He's quite clearly demonstrated that he's a troll just like the others.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> No, no, no. Trump was the one who started an economic war with China and is losing it _because _he stood firm against China. If you're expecting Biden to come out and publicly condemn those countries, you'd be badly mistaken. No sane leader would do that because it's terrible for diplomacy and the economy.


So basically your saying open up trade again with China and give the American jobs we just took from China back to China. How the fuck is that supost to better our economy. Their is 2 things that wrong with that idea. 

1. You are moving jobs over seas and away from American people. A lot of the steel and aluminum industry finally was getting reestablished back into America. 

2. Moving industrial jobs over to China is counter productive when you are trying to eliminate pollution and toxic waste due to their "relaxed aka non-existent " pollution regulations. (Another reason it's alot cheaper for company's to produce over seas, especially electronics that tend to produce alot of pollution and waste to produce.

We need stricter import taxes (enough to counter the cheap manufacturing) and have shit moved back to America to produce more jobs and make it possible to regulate pollution and waste. As they say "many nations, one planet." Moving it doesn't solve anything.


----------



## g00s3y (Jan 18, 2021)

Trump supporters still losing their mind.

Can't understand 2+2=4, how would you expect any of them to understand anything else as basic.

SO MUCH WINNING!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

*Snip*



wartutor said:


> So basically your saying open up trade again with China and give the American jobs we just took from China back to China. How the fuck is that supost to better our economy. Their is 2 things that wrong with that idea.
> 
> 1. You are moving jobs over seas and away from American people. A lot of the steel and aluminum industry finally was getting reestablished back into America.
> 
> ...


Nice strawman. I mentioned nothing about moving jobs. Stricter import taxes didn't work for Trump because China just moved production elsewhere.


----------



## Joom (Jan 18, 2021)

wartutor said:


> So basically your saying open up trade again with China and give the American jobs we just took from China back to China. How the fuck is that supost to better our economy. Their is 2 things that wrong with that idea.


Except none of the jobs were brought back to the US because they didn't have to be, and China now no longer has to adhere to our copyright laws, so they are now free to reproduce our own products en masse without paying a cent to us. If you don't understand policy, don't talk about policy.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> You avoided the question I put to you. I'll put it here again:
> 
> Here's a question: Do you really think it would be fair and democratic for a candidate that lost by *5 million votes* to still be declared the winner? Or do you think American politics need reform so the popular vote actually means something?
> 
> ...


Yes. Because the election is decided by the electoral college not by most votes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> What is the single best piece of evidence that there was widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election?
> 
> 
> "Mob rule" is what conservatives yell when they are backed into the corner of arguing against democracy, and it's embarrassing.



Dozens of whistleblowers. Eye witness testimony. Invalid votes cast post deadline not properly postmarked still counted as valid. Investigations showing dead people voting, showing people voting in states they don't live in and voting more than one time. Voting machines "glitching" and flipping votes at rates too high to be computer error, unmarked, unsecured boxes with tens of thousands of votes showing up from unknown couriers at 3am, vote watchers being refused to witness votes being counted.

But other than all this. There's no evidence at all.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Yes. Because the election is decided by the electoral college not by most votes.


Stop dodging the question, silly goober, I'm asking *you *if you think a candidate *losing the popular vote by 5 million votes* is a fair system.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> Investigations showing dead people voting


Nope, complete bullshit. That was disproven. Do you people bother to read even the Wikipedia article on it before making idiotic, outdated comments, or is Wikipedia a "left wing propaganda site"?



Purple_Shyguy said:


> Voting machines "glitching" and flipping votes at rates too high to be computer error


Pure speculation. Nothing of substance has been found to support this.

Stop repeating the same horse shit you've read on your right wing *snip* websites. All of this has been disproven, or rather, none of these claims have been proven.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

I´m surprised no one here is talking about inauguration of Joe Biden on Wednesday, January 20, 2021.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Yes. Because the election is decided by the electoral college not by most votes.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Please provide the single best piece of specific evidence, not debunked claims of evidence. For example, if you're going to claim there's evidence of widespread dead people voting, please provide it.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Yes. Because the election is decided by the electoral college not by most votes.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


....
*American Thinker joins conservative outlets walking back voter fraud claims*
soo... the only two "Evidence" you have left are
1. Members of the Seditious Coup..
2.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Please provide the single best piece of specific evidence, not debunked claims of evidence. For example, if you're going to claim there's evidence of widespread dead people voting, please provide it.


The 'dead people voting' one is the worst he could have possibly chosen. That isn't just lacking evidence, it's actually been disproven.

*Snip*


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> @Frankfort42*Snip* Everything that happened at the capitol was ILLEGAL! Trespassing on restricted land is not at all the same as peaceful protests in the public streets. Also don't you realise that doing what happened to the capitol is directly in contradiction with democracy..... Maybe you don't understand what democracy is... Democracy: a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
> The riot at the capitol is in direct contradiction of democracy! Don't you get that phrase *Snip*?!



Most of the 100,000+ protesters weren't rioting or trespassing. Protesting is a Constitutional right, regardless if you agree with why it's happening.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> The 'dead people voting' one is the worst he could have possibly chosen. That isn't just lacking evidence, it's actually been disproven.


I know. I'm just making the point that claiming evidence isn't the same thing as providing evidence.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Stop dodging the question, silly goober, I'm asking *you *if you think a candidate *losing the popular vote by 5 million votes* is a fair system.


It's absolutely a fair system. The only system that makes sense. Otherwise the entire election is decided by just two states, California and Texas. Due to their population size. Making every other states votes useless. Not really fair is it. That's why the electoral college is in place. 



Lacius said:


> I know. I'm just making the point that claiming evidence isn't the same thing as providing evidence.



And claiming there is no evidence isn't the same as there being no evidence


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

*Snip*



Purple_Shyguy said:


> It wasn't speculation. It's literal fact.


[Citation needed]


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> And claiming there is no evidence isn't the same as there being no evidence


It's a good thing the burden of proof is on the person claiming there was widespread election fraud then.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's a good thing the burden of proof is on the person claiming there was widespread election fraud then.


Ok can we have be allowed to investigate the votes?

Democrats - "No."


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's a good thing the burden of proof is on the person claiming there was widespread election fraud then.


I love it. We're right back to Creationist Fallacy thinking: "Well God exists because I say so and the burden of proof is on you to disprove God"


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Ok can we have be allowed to investigate the votes?
> 
> Democrats - "No."


...Investigations _have _been made. Courts _have _been shown 'evidence'. How can you be so incredulously ignorant about what's going on in your *own *country?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Ok can we have be allowed to investigate the votes?
> 
> Democrats - "No."


Not only did Democrats not say "no" to investigations, but the investigations occurred, and no evidence of widespread voter fraud was found.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Not only did Democrats not say "no" to investigations, but the investigations occurred, and no evidence of widespread voter fraud was found.


When all else fails, just claim suppression and censorship. Makes you laugh


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I love it. We're right back to Creationist Fallacy thinking: "Well God exists because I say so and the burden of proof is on you to disprove God"



"We hold these truths to be self evident, all men and women created by the.. go you know the you know the thing" - Joe Biden


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> When all else fails, just claim suppression and censorship. Makes you laugh


don't forget to Bypass Censorship of Sedition.. RUN to Russia to help
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/AdamSculthorpe/status/1350872780355596289

*Snip*


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Not only did Democrats not say "no" to investigations, but the investigations occurred, and no evidence of widespread voter fraud was found.


When being "allowed" to investigate things like the Dominion voting machines it means they were allowed into a room to look at the outside of the machine. Refused to see internals, refused to see the code. They were completely obstructed and you're not clever by pretending you don't know.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Most of the 100,000+ protesters weren't rioting or trespassing. Protesting is a Constitutional right, regardless if you agree with why it's happening.


Regardless of whether or not everyone there participated in the armed insurrection that was the invasion of the Capitol, it's anti-democratic to protest the results of a free and fair election, and they were still participating in Trump's attempted coup d'état. In other words, even if everything had been peaceful at the Capitol, those who were there perpetuated false and dangerous information about election fraud, and their goal was to persuade members of Congress to arbitrarily overturn the results of the election.

It should also be noted that over 200 subject case files have been opened in response to the armed insurrection at the Capitol, and they were there because Trump instigated it.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> don't forget to Bypass Censorship of Sedition.. RUN to Russia to help
> https://twitter.com/AdamSculthorpe/status/1350872780355596289
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...



When multiple giant billionaire tech monopolies team up like a giant evil cabal to openly crush competition they don't like where should they go?

Oh no! Scary Russia! Edward Snowdens doing fine.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> It's absolutely a fair system. The only system that makes sense. Otherwise the entire election is decided by just two states, California and Texas. Due to their population size. Making every other states votes useless. Not really fair is it. That's why the electoral college is in place.


Not necessarily. It could be done a similar way to how the UK does it; still not outright decided by the numbers alone, but a lot closer; any winner has to win more than 50% of votes. Obviously, it can't work in the exact same way, but the current system could be massively improved upon.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> "We hold these truths to be self evident, all men and women created by the.. go you know the you know the thing" - Joe Biden


This is a non-response.

*Snip*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> When being "allowed" to investigate things like the Dominion voting machines it means they were allowed into a room to look at the outside of the machine. Refused to see internals, refused to see the code. They were completely obstructed and you're not clever by pretending you don't know.


There were literal hand-counting audits that disproved any Dominion conspiracy theory nonsense.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/audit-in-michigan-county-refutes-dominion-conspiracy-theory/

Are you even trying?


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Regardless of whether or not everyone there participated in the armed insurrection that was the invasion of the Capitol, it's anti-democratic to protest the results of a free and fair election, and they were still participating in Trump's attempted coup d'état. In other words, even if everything had been peaceful at the Capitol, those who were there perpetuated false and dangerous information about election fraud, and their goal was to persuade members of Congress to arbitrarily overturn the results of the election.
> 
> It should also be noted that over 200 subject case files have been opened in response to the armed insurrection at the Capitol, and they were there because Trump instigated it.



Once again, protesting is a right. You may not agree with why the protests are taking place, but they shouldn't have been stopped because you have a right to protest if you're a USA citizen. You don't agree with the reasoning, that's fine. I don't agree with the BLM bullshit either and think all of those defund the police protests were fucking stupid.

Only 200? The crowd that started to riot looked like around 300-400 people. Then again, 200-400 people out of 100,000+ is chump change. The media is only focusing on the rioters to deflect interest away from why the actual protesting was taking place. 

I'll say this one last time. Protesting is a God given right. There was nothing wrong with people protesting peacefully in DC or people protesting peacefully all of last year during the BLM garbage. You cannot deny the right we have because you don't like the reason its taking place and it's pretty weird that suddenly rioting is a problem when it was encouraged and glamorized for most of last year.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> God given


No, constitution-given.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There were literal hand-counting audits that disproved any Dominion conspiracy theory nonsense.
> https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/audit-in-michigan-county-refutes-dominion-conspiracy-theory/
> 
> Are you even trying?


Bes honest. Did you even read that article you linked to me or did you just Google for the article with the title you wanted and copy and pasted it?

*Snip*


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Bes honest. Did you even read that article you linked to me or did you just Google for the article with the title you wanted and copy and pasted it?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


This post contains exactly zero points of evidence.
It's like you've turned _ad hominem_ attacks into a hobby.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Once again, protesting is a right. You may not agree with why the protests are taking place, but they shouldn't have been stopped because you have a right to protest if you're a USA citizen. You don't agree with the reasoning, that's fine. I don't agree with the BLM bullshit either and think all of those defund the police protests were fucking stupid.


Protesting is a right, and I didn't say otherwise. However, replying "protesting is a right" doesn't contradict anything I said in the post you were responding to.

Let's be clear. What occurred at the Capitol was an armed insurrection against the United States. Anyone present who was merely protesting was protesting the counting of votes in a fair and free election. That's anti-democratic, and it's anti-American.



Frankfort42 said:


> Only 200? The crowd that started to riot looked like around 300-400 people. Then again, 200-400 people out of 100,000+ is chump change. The media is only focusing on the rioters to deflect interest away from why the actual protesting was taking place.


Where is your source that it was over 100,000 people?



Frankfort42 said:


> I'll say this one last time. Protesting is a God given right. There was nothing wrong with people protesting peacefully in DC or people protesting peacefully all of last year during the BLM garbage. You cannot deny the right we have because you don't like the reason its taking place and it's pretty weird that suddenly rioting is a problem when it was encouraged and glamorized for most of last year.


It's a Constitutional right, not a "God-given right." There's no right to protest in the Bible (in fact, the Bible arguably advocates against the kind of protest that occurred at the Capitol). There is also no evidence that a god exists, but that's a subject for another thread.



Purple_Shyguy said:


> Bes honest. Did you even read that article you linked to me or did you just Google for the article with the title you wanted and copy and pasted it?


Nice attempt at deflection. "Yeah, you may have disproved my entire point and embarrassed me, but let's focus instead on the unsubstantiated claim that you didn't read the article that disproved my entire point before you posted it. Yeah. That's what's important here."

I always read at least the relevant information in whatever I post a link to.

To get back to the actual topic you tried to avoid, the conspiracy theory that Dominion did anything improper not only hasn't been demonstrated with evidence, but it has been investigated and debunked.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Bes honest. Did you even read that article you linked to me or did you just Google for the article with the title you wanted and copy and pasted it?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


May you find the Discernment to realize how you were mislead. To see that it was man that misled you in believing in a made up "evil Cabal" God did not Command you. I Honestly Pray that you really discover the Beauty and peace of Finding God, not this anger and resentment you display


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> May you find the the Discernment to realize how you were mislead. To see that it was man that misled you in believing in a made up "evil Cabal" God did not Command you. I Honestly Pray that you really discover the Beauty and Peach of Finding God, not this anger and resent me you display


You're being really cringe.

Imagine unironically thinking that all the big tech companies aren't working in collaboration when they all in unison decide to censor, deplatform and crush competition they don't like.

When you watch RoboCop do you root for the OCP?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> You're being really cringe.
> 
> Imagine unironically thinking that all the big tech companies aren't working in collaboration when they all in unison decide to censor, deplatform and crush competition they don't like.
> 
> When you watch RoboCop do you root for the OCP?


This isn't Orwell's _1984_, *snip*. This is the equivalent of a disgruntled parent punishing their laughably badly behaved child by sending them to their room.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Can't wait for the inauguration on the 20th so that I can close this thread forever. I'm away for one day and I don't even know where to start.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

*Snip*



Foxi4 said:


> Can't wait for the inauguration on the 20th so that I can close this thread forever. I'm away for one day and I don't even know where to start.


lol yESS!!!!  me and you don't really look eye to eye but best thing you have ever said


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Can't wait for the inauguration on the 20th so that I can close this thread forever. I'm away for one day and I don't even know where to start.


I don't either
I'm just like "dude just because people don't want you to spew hatred doesn't mean this is already some orwellian dystopia" and I get called a **snip**
w a t


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> lol yESS!!!!  me and you don't really look eye to eye but best thing you have ever said


You're no saint either. Having a cursory look at the last three pages, I'd technically have to suspend/warn most of you lot, including people who normally behave, to do this by the book, and at that point we may as well close the thread. No amount warnings will stop you guys from jumping at each other's throats.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:
			
		

> Protesting is a right, and I didn't say otherwise. However, replying "protesting is a right" doesn't contradict anything I said in the post you were responding to.
> 
> Let's be clear. What occurred at the Capitol was an armed insurrection against the United States. Anyone present who was merely protesting was protesting the counting of votes in a fair and free election. That's anti-democratic, and it's anti-American.



And I believe the BLM protests were anti-American. Again, it's all dependent on your point of view. You're trying to pass off your personal preferences as facts when they are only opinions.



			
				Cryoraptor said:
			
		

> No, constitution-given.



Nope, see below.



			
				Lacius said:
			
		

> It's a Constitutional right, not a "God-given right." There's no right to protest in the Bible (in fact, the Bible arguably advocates against the kind of protest that occurred at the Capitol). There is also no evidence that a god exists, but that's a subject for another thread.



No, I said it correctly.

The framers of the United States of America's Constitution made sure to include rights that were given to us by God in it. They are called “unalienable rights”. You should probably learn about what they are and why they are included. *Snip*

_"It is important to understand that the very premise of our nation is the fact that these rights, based on Natural Law, are "God-given." If they are not given to us by an Authority higher than human government, then any government action to abolish those rights would be against God's will."_

https://www.conservapedia.com/Unalienable_rights


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> And I believe the BLM protests were anti-American. Again, it's all dependent on your point of view. You're trying to pass off your personal preferences as facts when they are only opinions.
> 
> Nope, see below.
> 
> ...


you're citing
*conservapedia*
because all the major sources aren't delusional enough
I cannot express how fucking hilarious this is in text
also, fun fact: the US is not a Christian nation! the whole "under God" bit got shoehorned in later on, but one of the core freedoms it was founded on was _freedom of religion!
_
*Snip*

the Constitution wasn't made to involve God in any way, shape or form. the unalienable rights are just... basic human rights, and are arguably missing quite a few of those at that.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> And I believe the BLM protests were anti-American. Again, it's all dependent on your point of view. You're trying to pass off your personal preferences as facts when they are only opinions.


That's interesting that you think protests against systemic racism are anti-American.



Frankfort42 said:


> Nope, see below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Regardless of why it was put in the Constitution, an American's right to protest literally comes from the Constitution. A god's existence hasn't even been demonstrated, and even if it were, one's right to protest comes from the Constitution.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacuis said:
			
		

> That's interesting that you think protests against systemic racism are anti-American.



The BLM riots were started because a drug addict overdosed and died while being restrained for resisting arrest and consisted of criminals who looted stores, burnt down buildings, took over parts of cities, murdered and raped people and wanted the police defunded. I'm not sorry that I find that anti-American.



			
				Plasmaster09 said:
			
		

> you're citing
> *conservapedia*
> because all the major sources aren't delusional enough
> I cannot express how fucking hilarious this is in text
> ...


*Snip*

Virginia’s 1776 Constitution declared that “all men are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent rights . . . .” R. Perry & J. Cooper, Sources of Our Liberties 311 (1978) (hereinafter R. Perry). Pennsylvania’s 1776 Constitution stated that “all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights . . . .” Id. at 329. Delaware and North Carolina’s 1776 Declaration of Rights proclaimed that “all men have a natural and unalienable right to worship Almighty God . . . .” Id. at 338, 356.

https://lonang.com/commentaries/conlaw/religious-liberty/declaration-of-independence-religion/


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The BLM riots were started because a drug addict overdosed and died while being restrained for resisting arrest and consisted of criminals who looted stores, burnt down buildings, took over parts of cities, murdered and raped people that wanted the police defunded. I'm not sorry that I find that anti-American.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Snip*

Second off, here's the full section you're citing at the end there:
"That all men have a natural and unalienable right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences and understandings; and that no man ought or of right can be compelled to attend any religious worship or maintain any ministry contrary to or against his own free will and consent, *and that no authority can or ought to be vested in, or assumed by any power whatever that shall in any case interfere with, or in any manner control the right of conscience in the free exercise of religious worship.*"
AKA: Leave God out of politics.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The problem with lying, cheating and stealing is when you win you actually didn't win anything.



I don't know, Trump had a media career and got to be president for a single term. That isn't nothing.



Frankfort42 said:


> If you're a USA citizen then Trump is your President. It's not a personal preference. It was decided in an election in 2016. Face facts for once in your life.



No, again. He was the president of the united states of america. Face facts for once in your life, you are not the united states of america..

Whether he is YOUR president means something entirely different to what you are arguing, it just means whether you want to associate with him. It's a preference. Doctor Who fans talk about "My Doctor", it's the same. They aren't denying the other actors that played the character.

You seem upset that people are expressing an opinion that you don't like and then pretending that what they are saying means something else and then arguing with your incorrect interpretation of it. I don't see what you have to gain from that.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Ok, I think just about all intellectual discussion is dead when _Conservapedia _is being cited. I am not even reading that mess.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Clean-up complete, many slaps were given. I'd like the thread to continue on-topic. Religious arguments are not political arguments - if you don't have a legal, secular argument then you don't have an argument at all. With that being said, let's not denigrate each other's religions either.

I'm going to put on my blindfold now. If I hear any gamer words, any "-tards", or any flaming/trolling whatsoever, I'm going to shoot first and ask questions later until one of three outcomes takes place - the users in this thread are corralled into a peaceful, polite discussion, the trouble makers reach suspension levels or we reach the 20th and I personally close this thread. This appears to be the only effective way to deal with you. Good luck.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> The BLM riots were started because a drug addict overdosed and died while being restrained for resisting arrest



BLM has been going since 2013 because people keep getting let off after killing black people. George Floyd being just one in a long line.

_Floyd had complained about being unable to breathe prior to being on the ground, but after being restrained he became more distressed, and continued to complain about breathing difficulties, the knee in his neck, and expressed the fear he was about to die and called for his mother.[7] After several minutes passed Floyd stopped speaking.[7] For a further two minutes,[12] he lay motionless and officer Kueng found no pulse when urged to check.[13][14] Despite this Chauvin refused pleas to lift his knee until medics told him to.[15]:7:30_

It doesn't seem to tie up with your simplistic understanding of what happened.



Frankfort42 said:


> and consisted of criminals who looted stores, burnt down buildings, took over parts of cities, murdered and raped people and wanted the police defunded. I'm not sorry that I find that anti-American.



I think you're exaggerating what can be attributed to the BLM movement.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> There's no difference between killing normal citizens compared to kill government officials.


*Snip*

Ah yes_. No difference_
If there wasn't a difference then why does the government usually in circumstances of public events take certain members of congress of the campus to make sure that if some catastrophe where to happen that not all members are dead.
Your own argument makes no god damn sense.


Frankfort42 said:


> The difference is the bombs weren't used compared to the BLM riots where many devices were used to mame and kill.


1. state your source for that buddy. Can't just go calling a group, "mame and kill" without substantial evidence.
I already proved it in mine with the links I provided. One was pipe bombs, the other was maga chanting kill mike pence.
2. It doesn't matter if it wasn't used. The intent was still there, and again, it wasn't one person. Since I highly doubt the massive group didn't know, meaning many people were complicit with the idea and desire to bomb the capital.
If I placed a bomb in your home. Even if it didn't go off. I would be charged for attempted murder.


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Ah yes_. No difference_
> If there wasn't a difference then why does the government usually in circumstances of public events take certain members of congress of the campus to make sure that if some catastrophe where to happen that not all members are dead.
> Your own argument makes no god damn sense.



I think there is a difference between prioritizing those to save when you can't save anyone and whether killing one person or another is different.

Some people do have their own order though it seems, with white children at the top and black men at the bottom.

But he is crazy for pushing the idea of BLM riots being full of armed black men running around murdering and raping women, but that is just a repeat of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

*NY Bar Association Giving Rudy The Boot*
oh guess Rudy can't be Trump's lawyer anymore.. That and the fact Im pretty sure he's going to be listed as co-conspirator 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Capitol rioter threatened to shoot kids if they told FBI about DC trip
yup.. THAT is AN AMERICAN PATRIOT..


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

smf said:


> I think there is a difference between prioritizing those to save when you can't save anyone and whether killing one person or another is different.
> 
> Some people do have their own order though it seems, with white children at the top and black men at the bottom.
> 
> But he is crazy for pushing the idea of BLM riots being full of armed black men running around murdering and raping women, but that is just a repeat of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898


well he was arguing " There's no difference between killing normal citizens compared to kill government officials."
There is. One group was democratically elected, and hold positions of power. The other (normal people) isn't.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

smf said:


> but that is just a repeat of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898


Do I sense a touch of whataboutery?


----------



## djpannda (Jan 18, 2021)

*FBI investigating whether woman took Pelosi laptop, tried to sell it to Russians*
Nothing more Patriotic then selling National Secrets to the Russians!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

ohhh this ones good too.. 
*Dominion Voting Systems threatens to sue Mike Lindell, MyPillow C.E.O., over false claims.*
looks like Mr. Lindell is going to Back down or risk loosing his PILLOW EMPIRE!!! lol


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 18, 2021)

...Considering this huuuuge division between left and right in pretty much all over the internet, USA residents, I have a question.

Is it all this tense, in real life and in person?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> ...Considering this huuuuge division between left and right in pretty much all over the internet, USA residents, I have a question.
> 
> Is it all this tense, in real life and in person?


Sadly, yes.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> Most of the 100,000+ protesters weren't rioting or trespassing. Protesting is a Constitutional right, regardless if you agree with why it's happening.


Restricted property and city streets are two different things. Stop being so ignorant


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> ...Considering this huuuuge division between left and right in pretty much all over the internet, USA residents, I have a question.
> 
> Is it all this tense, in real life and in person?


It can be, yeah.  All the anti-masker and Karen videos out there attest to that.  Trump gave people permission to be the worst version of themselves, and I never in my lifetime thought I'd see a president politicize a fucking virus.  All the boomers who once told us, "don't believe everything you read on the internet," now believe everything they read on the internet.  Even when it's not tense, shit's getting _real weird_ down here.   Please send help, even if it's in the form of maple syrup.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Can't wait for the inauguration on the 20th so that I can close this thread forever. I'm away for one day and I don't even know where to start.


Only for someone to open an inauguration thread?



Cryoraptor said:


> Ok, I think just about all intellectual discussion is dead when _Conservapedia _is being cited. I am not even reading that mess.


Should I risk my sanity and browse this site?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> Was that supposed to be a joke, because the last four years the only ones who're laughing were the Party that won.
> Bargaining would entail unpreparedness for the outcome, which only amateurs would assume their senior members are.
> 
> It has to be said, the are a lot of butthurts that I'm pointing out a fact; how is that any different than what the Right supporters are feeling now.
> ...


five paragraphs in response to a shitpost
ladies and gentlemen, we got him
context:


Darth Meteos said:


> cool we're at the bargaining stage
> "didn't even wanna win you guys i don't even feel it"


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Clean-up complete, many slaps were given. I'd like the thread to continue on-topic. Religious arguments are not political arguments - if you don't have a legal, secular argument then you don't have an argument at all. With that being said, let's not denigrate each other's religions either.
> 
> I'm going to put on my blindfold now. If I hear any gamer words, any "-tards", or any flaming/trolling whatsoever, I'm going to shoot first and ask questions later until one of three outcomes takes place - the users in this thread are corralled into a peaceful, polite discussion, the trouble makers reach suspension levels or we reach the 20th and I personally close this thread. This appears to be the only effective way to deal with you. Good luck.


If only trolls would abstain from posting ridiculous things without facts...


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Can't wait for the inauguration on the 20th so that I can close this thread forever. I'm away for one day and I don't even know where to start.


the thread may close, but the cope will never die

god bless you, dumpster fire thread
may you live on in your son, _Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America_'s name
for although you will live for only a fraction of the time of that thread
you will be remembered fondly


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It can be, yeah.  All the anti-masker and Karen videos out there attest to that.  Trump gave people permission to be the worst version of themselves, and I never in my lifetime thought I'd see a president politicize a fucking virus.  All the boomers who once told us, "don't believe everything you read on the internet," now believe everything they read on the internet.  Even when it's not tense, shit's getting _real weird_ down here.   Please send help, even if it's in the form of maple syrup.


No amount of Maple Syrup, Poutine and apologetic gestures can help clean up the mess your President  has unleashed.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> No amount of Maple Syrup, Poutine and apologetic gestures can help clean up the mess your President  has unleashed.


You Canadians must be feeling real good about yourselves not having to deal with this bullshit


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> No amount of Maple Syrup, Poutine and apologetic gestures can help clean up the mess your President  has unleashed.


I love poutine and maple syrup, just separately. Let's hope Joe Biden works things out with Canada too... It seems Trump wasn't very kind to those Canadians up north.


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> You Canadians must be feeling real good about yourselves not having to deal with this bullshit



You'd think so but there are Trump supporters here. In Québec.
Some are sane, majority are conspiratonists.
COVID-19, nationalism and political propaganda has bought them 
out of their hiding.
Trumpism has truly become an idealogy.



White_Raven_X said:


> I love poutine and maple syrup, just separately. Let's hope Joe Biden works things out with Canada too... It seems Trump wasn't very kind to those Canadians up north.



Indeed, he was not. But our pain is paltry compared to yours.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 18, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> the thread may close, but the cope will never die
> 
> god bless you, dumpster fire thread
> may you live on in your son, _Joe Biden is the President of the United States_' name
> ...


I have a feeling we're gonna need a new cope megathread after this one is closed.  Assuming Foxi doesn't want to deal with fifty new threads a day for the next four years, anyway.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I have a feeling we're gonna need a new cope megathread after this one is closed.  Assuming Foxi doesn't want to deal with fifty new threads a day for the next four years, anyway.


Threatening me with a good time may have adverse effects in terms of future access to the site. Now, if we're done discussing possible outcomes after this thread dies a natural death, we can get back to politics.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Threatening me with a good time may have adverse effects to future access to the site. Now, if we're done discussing possible outcomes after this thread dies a natural death, we can get back to politics.


The question is, who's gonna get the last message? More importantly, what time on Wednesday will it be locked?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> The question is, who's gonna get the last message? More importantly, what time on Wednesday will it be locked?


It will be locked once it's no longer relevant, namely after the peaceful (hopefully) transition of power takes place. Once that event fully unfolds and its details are discussed, there's no further reason for the inauguration thread to exist.


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 18, 2021)

To be honest, I hope the transition of power will be peaceful.

Because, I cannot shake this feeling that it will not be.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> To be honest, I hope the transition of power will be peaceful.
> 
> Because, I cannot shake this feeling that it will not be.


Half of DC is either walled off or covered in barbed wire and there are thousands of troops stationed in the vicinity of Capitol Hill. If there are any shamans wanting to disrupt the proceedings, I sure hope they prayed to all their gods beforehand.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> To be honest, I hope the transition of power will be peaceful.
> 
> Because, I cannot shake this feeling that it will not be.


Hopefully, the amount of national guard on inauguration day and probably for the next couple of months sends the message home that if any degenerates try causing problems, they will more than likely be shut down and possibly killed. As much as Trump likes attention, I think he's going to do his best to shut up and stay quiet now, because he's on _reaaaaaally _thin ice as it is and he doesn't want to spend his last days in prison. I have no doubt MAGA will continue for several years though, probably under different leadership, although I think in 2024 MAGA will have lost enough steam that the MAGA candidate loses out to the more sane, moderate Republican candidate. But we shall see.


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Half of DC is either walled off or covered in barbed wire and there are thousands of troops stationed in the vicinity of Capitol Hill. If there are any shamans wanting to disrupt the proceedings, I sure hope they prayed to all their gods beforehand.


Yes, it looks walled off as hell. And with all the soldiers stationed, it looks like a battlefield.

Still, there are people who aren't the sharpest tool in the shed. If it's not there, it could maybe be somewhere else.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> To be honest, I hope the transition of power will be peaceful.
> 
> Because, I cannot shake this feeling that it will not be.



If there's 120 days of riots maybe the media will day it's "mostly peaceful" protests?


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 18, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> If there's 120 days of riots maybe the media will day it's "mostly peaceful" protests?


In Canada, yes. Because we mostly march unarmed and the worst thin  we could do is destroy property.m likebreaking and stealing. And our media here usually makes a clear distinction between the peaceful protesters and the bad apples.

That's not the case for a lot of media outlets in the USA, sadly. On both sides.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Cryoraptor said:


> Hopefully, the amount of national guard on inauguration day and probably for the next couple of months sends the message home that if any degenerates try causing problems, they will more than likely be shut down and possibly killed. As much as Trump likes attention, I think he's going to do his best to shut up and stay quiet now, because he's on _reaaaaaally _thin ice as it is and he doesn't want to spend his last days in prison. I have no doubt MAGA will continue for several years though, probably under different leadership, although I think in 2024 MAGA will have lost enough steam that the MAGA candidate loses out to the more sane, moderate Republican candidate. But we shall see.



It'll keep on going for years to come. In fact, I would even say that it has always been there, the seeds have sown and it is now budding, because Trump brought it out in the open.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

gamefan5 said:


> In Canada, yes. Because we mostly march unarmed and the worst thin  we could do is destroy property.m likebreaking and stealing. And our media here usually makes a clear distinction between the peaceful protesters and the bad apples.
> 
> That's not the case for a lot of media outlets in the USA, sadly. On both sides.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, MAGA mentality has always existed. Trump manipulated it to get into power. It'll keep going for a while, but over time MAGA views will become social taboo again and without someone like Trump steamrolling through to keep it alive, it'll just fizzle out. But that's a process that will take years. No doubt we'll have a serious MAGA contender for the Republican candidate in 2024. By then though, it's quite possible if not likely that MAGA will have become considerably more fringe and taboo, and they won't be seen as electable. MAGA worked for the GOP for 4 years, and now it's disgraced them. Unless Biden/Harris if Biden passes away turns out to be completely useless, the GOP aren't getting back in in 2024 with MAGA again. They'll be aiming for a more moderate policy. The GOP realistically doesn't have much of a chance in 2024 regardless anyway because unless the current pres is terrible like Trump was, the public probably isn't going to switch half-way through an administration's life. If I was one of the senior members of GOP I'd seriously be suggesting that unless the opportuinity arises due to Biden being shite, they shouldn't really expend resources in 2024 and should just start preparing for 2028 now.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

I'm not opposed to conflicts that have been brewing under the surface for decades being finally out in the open. Everybody can act out their crazy temper tantrums and we can return to a semblance of normalcy in due time. Lest we forget that Democrats have also objected to electoral votes certification in 2016, or that to this day they pretend Stacey Abrams actually won her gubernatorial race and the election was "stolen" from her, leading to her subsequent lawsuit against Georgia's board of electors. Bizzare claims of the system "not working" or that it's "fraudulent" are not unique to Republicans.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not opposed to conflicts that have been brewing under the surface for decades being finally out in the open. Everybody can act out their crazy temper tantrums and we can return to a semblance of normalcy in due time. Lest we forget that Democrats have also objected to electoral votes certification in 2016, or that to this day they pretend Stacey Abrams actually won her gubernatorial race and the election was "stolen" from her, so she subsequently suing the Georgia board of electors. Bizzare claims of the system "not working" or that it's "fraudulent" are not unique to Republicans.


100% with you on this one. This is why I'm centrist.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 18, 2021)

Well, I just learned part of Canada has Jason Kenney to deal with.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not opposed to conflicts that have been brewing under the surface for decades being finally out in the open. Everybody can act out their crazy temper tantrums and we can return to a semblance of normalcy in due time.


this kinda shit is why we're fucked
we're just letting the situation devolve as we're like
"Yeah man, but we'll go back to normal soon, right???" -sweats-

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. A lot of people have been given permission to go full on fascist, not least of which is the party itself. God, I shudder to think where the 2024 Republican primary is gonna go...


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Well, I just learned part of Canada has Jason Kenney to deal with.


All of Canada has Justin Trudeau to deal with.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> 100% with you on this one. This is why I'm centrist.


you're between corporatists and fascists? you're in the middle of that? what's that middle ground look like?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> All of Canada has Justin Trudeau to deal with.


Justin Trudeau makes me embarrassed to be 1/8th Canadian

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> you're between corporatists and fascists? you're in the middle of that? what's that middle ground look like?


Calling everyone on all sides out for their mistakes. For me at least, centrism is taking the best of all worlds that can be applied in a useful and realistic way, and getting rid of the silly stuff.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not opposed to conflicts that have been brewing under the surface for decades being finally out in the open. Everybody can act out their crazy temper tantrums and we can return to a semblance of normalcy in due time. Lest we forget that Democrats have also objected to electoral votes certification in 2016, or that to this day they pretend Stacey Abrams actually won her gubernatorial race and the election was "stolen" from her, so she subsequently suing the Georgia board of electors. Bizzare claims of the system "not working" or that it's "fraudulent" are not unique to Republicans.


Nobody objected to the 2016 electoral college certification on the basis of unsubstantiated voter fraud claims. Nobody seriously attempted, nor advocated for, overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.

Stacey Abrams lost because Kemp demonstrably meddled in the 2018 election from a position of power he should not have held (overseeing an election he was running in).


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Calling everyone on all sides out for their mistakes. For me at least, centrism is taking the best of all worlds that can be applied in a useful and realistic way, and getting rid of the silly stuff.


pretty cringe
one side is objectively right, and the other side is objectively wrong
co-operation yields results and has done so for our whole history, and well before it
hierarchical systems breed discrimination and oppression by their very nature

i mean, where's the best of the republican world? point to the good thing

EDIT: To be clear, I am referring to left-wing ideals, which are not represented by the Democrat Party, a center-right party, and right-wing ideals, which are represented fairly well by the Republican Party.
I am not referring to the Democrats being right. They are Right, though. Mind-bender.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> this kinda shit is why we're fucked
> we're just letting the situation devolve as we're like
> "Yeah man, but we'll go back to normal soon, right???" -sweats-
> 
> You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. A lot of people have been given permission to go full on fascist, not least of which is the party itself. God, I shudder to think where the 2024 Republican primary is gonna go...


This would be a relevant point if we were discussing actual toothpaste, but you actually have two tubs of joke toothpaste, one is mud-flavoured while the other is a weird mix of onion and rotting fish. I think the flavour is called "durian". There's no point in trying to put it back in the tub, nor is it the intention - just flush it down the drain.



Lacius said:


> Nobody objected to the 2016 electoral college certification on the basis of unsubstantiated voter fraud claims. Nobody seriously attempted, nor advocated for, overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.
> 
> Stacey Abrams lost because Kemp demonstrably meddled in the 2018 election from a position of power he should not have held (overseeing an election he was running in).


Reports seem to show that Abrams approved the redistricting measure that ended up costing her the seat, in spite of her proclamations to the contrary. Nobody "stole" her seat.

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/27/stacey-abrams-georgia-republican-voting-rights-gerrymandering/


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> This would be a relevant point if we were discussing actual toothpaste, but you actually have two tubs of joke toothpaste, one is mud-flavoured while the other is a weird mix of onion and rotting fish. I think the flavour is called "durian". There's no point in trying to put it back in the tub, nor is it the intention - just flush it down the drain.


the metaphor- _you can't put toothpaste back in the tube_- is referring to the fact that the overton window for the republican party has veered much further auth-right, and you can't just undo that progress by letting them scream themselves out
it is not referring to the flavor of the toothpaste, or the intrinsic qualities of toothpaste
merely that the dispersal system for toothpaste is almost completely one-way


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> the metaphor- _you can't put toothpaste back in the tube_- is referring to the fact that the overton window for the republican party has veered much further auth-right, and you can't just undo that progress by letting them scream themselves out
> it is not referring to the flavor of the toothpaste, or the intrinsic qualities of toothpaste
> merely that the dispersal system for toothpaste is almost completely one-way


The overton window has been shifting to the left for decades, it was well-overdue for the pendulum to swing. The difference between a real-life pendulum and politics is that politics break all rules of physics by having nigh-infinite energy, so once the pendulum swings, it swings to the extreme. It absolutely will normalise over time, as it has in the past on a number of occasions.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Reports seem to show that Abrams approved the redistributing measure that ended up costing her the seat, in spite of her proclamations to the contrary. Nobody "stole" her seat.
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2018/04/27/stacey-abrams-georgia-republican-voting-rights-gerrymandering/


So we are on the same page, since your response was completely irrelevant, I'm talking about a statewide gubernatorial election unaffected by gerrymandering, and I'm referencing Kemp's actions of "wrongfully flagging 300,000 voters as intelligible to vote" just before the election and delaying 53,000 voter registrations for no reason and without notification, all in disproportionately Black areas of the state.

For the record, Kemp "won" by 54,723 votes.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 18, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The overton window has been shifting to the left for decades, it was well-overdue for the pendulum to swing. The difference between a real-life pendulum and politics is that politics break all rules of physics by having nigh-infinite energy, so once the pendulum swings, it swings to the extreme. It absolutely will normalise over time, as it has in the past on a number of occasions.


the overton window has been shifting left? it's been careening right since reagan, and was slowly moving right since truman, what are you even talking about
bernie sanders is like a random labour politician (not a corbyn-type, a random one around the center) and the democratic establishment rose up as one to crush his movement because it was "radically left"

murica - not even once


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 18, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> five paragraphs in response to a shitpost
> ladies and gentlemen, we got him



This may be a Gaming website, but I'm not here to defecate on ideas.
People who come here to read may be Gamers, but they also have lives outside of Gaming, and the ideas they read here may affect those spheres, too.

Just the other day I made a point to comment about Anarchy and underlined the need to be careful and not act rashly.
A few days after, we had the Washington DC Anarchy which some people here also witnessed first-hand.

So yes, you've got me - red-handed actually caring not to put foot in mouth.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> So we are on the same page, since your response was completely irrelevant, I'm talking about a statewide gubernatorial election unaffected by gerrymandering, and I'm referencing Kemp's actions of "wrongfully flagging 300,000 voters as intelligible to vote" just before the election and delaying 53,000 voter registrations for no reason and without notification, all in disproportionately Black areas of the state.
> 
> For the record, Kemp "won" by 54,723 votes.


Kemp won, the election was contested. The rest is white noise as far as I'm concerned - Stacey Abrams *still* insists that she's the rightful governor of Georgia because she lives in an alternative version of reality. The link is relevant to the conversation we're having right now in this thread, namely "refusing to concede" and "questioning the results of an election". If Abrams has a claim to make in regards to Kemp's activity, the courts can settle it. From my seat it's 2021 and Abrams is not the governor, so I have a weird feeling that her case wasn't airtight.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Kemp won, the election was contested. The rest is white noise as far as I'm concerned - Stacey Abrams *still* insists that she's the rightful governor of Georgia because she lives in an alternative version of reality. The link is relevant to the conversation we're having right now in this thread, namely "refusing to concede" and "questioning the results of an election". If Abrams has a claim to make in regards to Kemp's activity, the courts can settle it. From my seat it's 2021 and Abrams is not the governor, so I have a weird feeling that her case wasn't airtight.


Abrams acknowledged that Kemp won, but she also rightfully acknowledges that Kemp improperly used his office to suppress likely Democratic voters. I'm not arguing Kemp's actions were necessarily illegal, but that's part of the problem.

You may be unaware, but Republicans have been  suppressing votes for a long time now. One of the more egregious examples off the top of my head is when Kansas Republicans moved the only polling place in Dodge City to outside the city limits. For context, Dodge City is majority Democratic and Hispanic.

You can read more about voter suppression in the United States here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States#Contemporary


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not opposed to conflicts that have been brewing under the surface for decades being finally out in the open. Everybody can act out their crazy temper tantrums and we can return to a semblance of normalcy in due time. Lest we forget that Democrats have also objected to electoral votes certification in 2016, or that to this day they pretend Stacey Abrams actually won her gubernatorial race and the election was "stolen" from her, leading to her subsequent lawsuit against Georgia's board of electors. Bizzare claims of the system "not working" or that it's "fraudulent" are not unique to Republicans.


Oh agreed for sure.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> one side is objectively right, and the other side is objectively wrong


Imo that's a really simplistic way of viewing the world.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Answer the question: Do you fundamentally disagree with democracy or not?


A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, *Snip* and you know it.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, *Snip*, and you know it.


So you'd rather have a dictator?


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Imo that's a really simplistic way of viewing the world.


Look at Cryoraptor, slipping the substance for a statement that means nothing.
At any rate, co-operation over competition might be a simple view, but it's borne out by evidence. Simple does not mean wrong.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> the overton window has been shifting left? it's been careening right since reagan, and was slowly moving right since truman, what are you even talking about
> bernie sanders is like a random labour politician (not a corbyn-type, a random one around the center) and the democratic establishment rose up as one to crush his movement because it was "radically left"
> 
> murica - not even once


This claim is not supported by statistical evidence. American politics were polarised long before Trump entered the scene. Republicans shifted further to the right, Democrats shifted *way* further to the left, and the center ended up tilting slightly leftwards, not according to me, but according to Pew Research.




The gap in the middle represents the rapidly growing group of "normal" people who are befuddled by what the heck the two sides are up to these days.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> So you'd rather have a dictator?


I mean, how else do you take that? Standard authoritarian bullshit, everything you expect from UltraSUPRA.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Look at Cryoraptor, slipping the substance for a statement that means nothing.
> At any rate, co-operation over competition might be a simple view, but it's borne out by evidence. Simple does not mean wrong.


Great way to miss the point. The whole point of my brand of centrism is that the world isn't a simple, black-and-white place, and both sides of the argument are right about some things and wrong about others. What I want to do is take the right things from both sides and get rid of the wrong things that don't work from both sides.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Darth Meteos said:


> I mean, how else do you take that? Standard authoritarian bullshit, everything you expect from UltraSUPRA.


Well I don't know, he might come up with some nonsense about how having one single leader that calls the shots and can't be legally removed is more fair and all the rest of it. I haven't extensively conversed with this person before.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> So you'd rather have a dictator?


No, but choosing the President by popular vote will inevitably end up with the entire vote being determined by less 17% of the counties *Snip*.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> This claim is not supported by statistical evidence.


This is based on how ideologically opposed people are to their opposite numbers, not on the overall Overton Window. This is not a valid criticism of my point. Reagan marked what political scientists call the Sixth Political Era. There is debate about when exactly it started, but Reagan transformed politics in America toward the Right. Democratic leaders have been Center-Right since then, compromising on the New Deal values the party represented in the Fifth Era. This is all basic shit to anyone paying attention.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No, but choosing the President by popular vote will inevitably end up with the entire vote being determined by less 17% of the counties *Snip*.
> 
> Wait, that's just what happened.


>Choosing by popular vote
>American Presidents have always been chosen by electoral votes

Epic phail.

What you're really trying to say is 'let's keep this less-than-ideal system so that those horrid smelly Democrats have artificially low chances of winning and rural areas that vote Republican have a higher say in the election than they shoud'.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Great way to miss the point. The whole point of my brand of centrism is that the world isn't a simple, black-and-white place, and both sides of the argument are right about some things and wrong about others.


Then engage with my point. What values of the Republican Party do you agree with?



UltraSUPRA said:


> *Snip*


@Foxi4 I contend that his sharing of his position makes it easier to combat his ideology. Hiding it actively makes it harder to address the problem with his views. It obfuscates the real issue and derails the conversation.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> @Foxi4 I contend that his sharing of his position makes it easier to combat his ideology. Hiding it actively makes it harder to address the problem with his views. It obfuscates the real issue and derails the conversation.


His opinion is still present, I merely removed terms that denigrate thousands of voters. I'm a huge supporter of the Electoral College, I think it should be emulated in other countries with a similar structure to the U.S., not eliminated, but if he wants to make that point then he has to make it without disparaging remarks, or not at all. 361 pages of this thread lead me to believe that it should be policed far more harshly than it was up to this point, and while I can't be here 24/7, I'm here right now, so I can take necessary action when needed.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Then engage with my point. What values of the Republican Party do you agree with?


Right, this is where the conversation breaks down because I'm trying to apply my ideology to a system that is totally different from mine.

My centrism is based around UK politics. Left and Right don't practically mean the same in the UK as they do in America. In America, 'centre' means somewhere in the middle of GOP and Dems, but in UK terms centre pretty much aligns with the Dems.

I'm not as well versed in US politics because I don't live there, but generally speaking, I'm not going to agree with the GOP about much, because they occupy the right and aren't interested about centrist politics at all. On the inverse, I'm going to find myself agreeing with the Dems about a lot of things, because they generally occupy the centre. There's even a few things I'd go further left on than the Dems, because in UK terms they can creep to centre-right. For instance, I support public healthcare, but most Dems don't, so on that issue, I'm further left than the Dems. But generally speaking I'm going to agree with them on most things.

In the UK, most people are pretty much centre with small leanings, so is it any surprise that most Brits support the Democrats and a very large number of people here, even more right-leaning ones, hate Trump? All of our parties are pretty much centre with some sort of leaning, e.g. tories are centre-right, libs are centre (although I hate the libs with a passion), labour is centre to centre-left, and so on. The actual right and left wing parties are considered too extreme by most people, and is largely why, among other things, the labour party under Corbyn performed so badly. To a lot of people in this country, Trump and the GOP look more like modern UKIP than our tories, and dems look more like our tories than our labour.

So actually, my point still stands.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Right, this is where the conversation breaks down because I'm trying to apply my ideology to a system that is totally different from mine.
> 
> My centrism is based around UK politics. Left and Right don't practically mean the same in the UK as they do in America. In America, 'centre' means somewhere in the middle of GOP and Dems, but in UK terms centre pretty much aligns with the Dems.
> 
> ...



You spoke to all 68,000,000 of us? What makes you think 'most of the UK' would lean Dem when the Conservatives a very much "not leaning left" party has been in power for over 10 years and unless you class Brexit as leaning left, then your claim is unfounded. What you mean is "me and my mates tend to lean that way and ive convinced myself that my small bubble is the world"

The EC is a good system, It suits their country. It stops states like California deciding who's president by itself every 4 years basically. What needs working on is the UK's first past the post system which is utter shite. You should start a thread on that.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

shamzie said:


> You spoke to all 68,000,000 of us? What makes you think 'most of the UK' would lean Dem when the Conservatives a very much "not leaning left" party has been in power for over 10 years and unless you class Brexit as leaning left, then your claim is unfounded. What you mean is "me and my mates tend to lean that way and ive convinced myself that my small bubble is the world"
> 
> The EC is a good system, It suits their country. It stops states like California deciding who's president by itself every 4 years basically. What needs working on is the UK's first past the post system which is utter shite. You should start a thread on that.


An end to the anti-democratic Electoral College would not result in "California" or other blue states deciding the results of the presidential election. In reality, it would actually give the millions of Republican Californians a voice in a presidential election for once in their miserable lives.


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> An end to the anti-democratic Electoral College would not result in "California" or other blue states deciding the results of the presidential election. In reality, it would actually give the millions of Republican Californians a voice in a presidential election for once in their miserable lives.



How so? I'm happy to learn, my understanding of it is that California, with a HUGE population (only getting bigger with more illegals every year, who will likely be able to vote in future elections) outnumber quite a few states. I don't understand how using the popular vote wouldn't just result in them deciding the election by themselves.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

shamzie said:


> How so? I'm happy to learn, my understanding of it is that California, with a HUGE population (only getting bigger with more illegals every year, who will likely be able to vote in future elections) outnumber quite a few states. I don't understand how using the popular vote wouldn't just result in them deciding the election by themselves.


California is a plurality of the American population, not a majority.

In other words, California is the biggest state by population, but it's only 11.8% of the US population, and a lot of that is Republican.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

shamzie said:


> I don't understand how using the popular vote wouldn't just result in them deciding the election by themselves.


Because that’s how the framers of the Constitution set it up in 1787!


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

shamzie said:


> You spoke to all 68,000,000 of us? What makes you think 'most of the UK' would lean Dem


Because it does. Very few people here support Trump at all. Back in 2017 time when I was in my edgy anti-SJW phase I was attacked consantly for my views and I was seen as all sorts of -phobes.



shamzie said:


> the Conservatives a very much "not leaning left" party has been in power for over 10 years


The term 'Centre-right' means 'centrist leaning on moderate right wing policies'. The tories being in power has little to do with their policies and more to do with how much the Blairites fucked up the country though. Generally speaking, the British public will vote in whoever is occupying the closest position to the centre, which is partly why labour failed so badly under Corbyn.



shamzie said:


> unless you class Brexit as leaning left, then your claim is unfounded


I'm not going to get into brexit here because that's a whole other shitshow, but it really has no political leaning. So many arguments can be made both for and against it on both sides. We joined the EU under a tory government (arguably one more right wing than any in more recent history) and we left under a tory government.



shamzie said:


> What you mean is "me and my mates tend to lean that way and ive convinced myself that my small bubble is the world"


Not really. The UK is very much a nation of centrists.



shamzie said:


> The EC is a good system, It suits their country. It stops states like California decided who's president by itself every 4 years basically


Well not really. The states with the highest population logically get the largest say, because they have the most people in them. This is another case of 'I don't want to fix an unfair system because the people I like will seldom be voted in. I don't care that the majority of Americans don't want the people I like in power, I want them in and that's all that matters'.



shamzie said:


> What needs working on is the UK's first past the post system which is utter shite. You should start a thread on that.


Ok, tell me what's wrong with it. It's not perfect, so if you raise some genuine problems with it I might agree with you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> and a lot of that is Republican


I feel like a lot of people actually forget that it's only the coastal urban areas in California that reliably vote Democrat. Pretty much all of the northern region votes Republican; something like 35% of California. In the same way, Texas is very similarly a split between the large rural Republican regions and the heavily latino-influenced urban Democrat areas. They would in no way decide the election, it's complete nonsense, and Republicans know that. It's just an excuse because they know they will have a much harder time winning any elections if it actually went by real votes instead of EC.


----------



## Valwinz (Jan 19, 2021)

Planning to use full military force against citizens is a pretty interesting thing for Biden you know the guy with a standing army. not even trump did that in the summer  when BLM was looting and burning


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Because it does. Very few people here support Trump at all. Back in 2017 time when I was in my edgy anti-SJW phase I was attacked consantly for my views and I was seen as all sorts of -phobes.
> 
> 
> The term 'Centre-right' means 'centrist leaning on moderate right wing policies'. The tories being in power has little to do with their policies and more to do with how much the Blairites fucked up the country though. Generally speaking, the British public will vote in whoever is occupying the closest position to the centre, which is partly why labour failed so badly under Corbyn.
> ...


The Electoral College irrationally changes the votes of nearly half the population of each state, it gives citizens of some states more voting power than the citizens of other states, it disincentivizes voting in presidential elections if one doesn't live in a swing state, it allows presidential candidates (and Presidents) to write off entire states, and it scrambles the results of the election in potentially strange ways where the popular vote winner can, for example, win with 70-90% of the vote and lose the election. Oh, and the Electoral College exists largely due to the racist concerns of slave states who wanted power without giving a significant percentage of their population (Black people) voting rights.

There is no defense for the Electoral College. It doesn't accomplish what anyone pretends it accomplishes, it exists because of slavery and racism, and it's fundamentally anti-democratic. It continues to exist solely because one political party believes they benefit from it, and they're right.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> My centrism is based around UK politics.


If you're talking about UK centrism and not US centrism, you are alright in my book. I am still quite a bit to your left, but you aren't... well. Look around. We have enough common ground that being adversarial is ridiculous, at the very least!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is no defense for the Electoral College. It doesn't accomplish what anyone pretends it accomplishes, it exists because of slavery and racism, and it's fundamentally anti-democratic. It continues to exist solely because one political party believes they benefit from it, and they're right.


It exists because the framers had a rough time deciding who should elect the head of the Executive - Congress or the public, with valid points on both sides. Leaving election procedures to the individual states and making them appoint electors who vote on behalf of the public was the closest thing to a consensus they could've achieved, and it stood the test of time. The number of electors a given state can appoint is proportional to its congressional delegation, which in turn is proportional to its population - let's not pretend that the number is fixed and has no relation to the actual number of voters. The United States, as the name implies, is a union of states federated under one federal government, so this setup makes perfect sense in my estimation.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Planning to use full military force against citizens is a pretty interesting thing for Biden


Biden currently doesn't have control. he is not in office yet. Trump is.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> It exists because the framers had a rough time deciding who should elect the head of the Executive - Congress or the public, with valid points on both sides. The leaving election procedures to the individual states and making them appoint electors who vote on behalf of the public was the closest thing to a consensus they could've achieved, and it stood the test of time. The number of electors a given state can appoint is proportional to its congressional delegation, which in turn is proportional to its population - let's not pretend that the number is fixed and has no relation to the actual number of voters. The United States, as the name implies, is a union of states federated under one federal government, so this setup makes perfect sense in my estimation.


We have the Electoral College largely because the average citizens couldn't be trusted to make the right decisions, according to the framers, and slave states wanted credit for their slave populations without giving slaves the right to vote. The creators of the Electoral College are also the same people who only wanted land-owning white men to be able to vote. Let's not pretend otherwise. "The rest is white noise as far as I'm concerned," and it doesn't contradict any of my previous points.


----------



## Seliph (Jan 19, 2021)

Centrists are just right-wingers who are too afraid to admit it


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Centrists are just right-wingers who are too afraid to admit it


Centrists are often left-wing progressives who are too afraid to admit it.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Centrists are often left-wing progressives who are too afraid to admit it.


Centrists in the United states are technically right leaning people (overtune window or however it's spelled)
However, without understanding of politics outside the states, to them it looks like they are centrist.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So really,the term  "liberals" in the united states are most likely closer to centrists (outside of the united states) than actual leftists.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Centrists in the United states are technically right leaning people (overtune window or however it's spelled)
> However, without understanding of politics outside the states, to them it looks like they are centrist.


A centrist, by definition, is someone who falls in the center of the left/right political spectrum, and a true centrist couldn't be described as left or right-wing.

However, many self-described centrists are often left or right-wing, but for whatever reason (e.g. they're anti-confrontation or anti-politics), they identify as centrist.

Anecdotally, I've met self-described centrists who were left wing, but they had right wing family and were anti-confrontation. I've met self-described centrists who were right wing, but they were afraid of the social repercussions of supporting Trump and Trump policies.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

imagine arguing that certain votes should mean less and certain votes should mean more explicitly because it makes democracy work better
the doublethink is unbelievable


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

@UltraSUPRA will not be joining us for the remainder of this thread's limited lifespan, I asked nicely. The same rule will be applied to anyone else purposefully breaking the rules just for the sake of using inflammatory language and causing arguments. The politics section was designed with civil discussion in mind, anyone who can't meet this (rather low) bar of acceptable behaviour will be suspended until after the inauguration.


----------



## Seliph (Jan 19, 2021)

This thread reminds me of that episode of Community where Troy walks into his apartment with a box of pizza only to find that everyone inside has gone nuts and everything is on fire


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

Seliph said:


> This thread reminds me of that episode of Community where Troy walks into his apartment with a box of pizza only to find that everyone inside has gone nuts and everything is on fire


That was truly the darkest timeline. Hopefully @Foxi4 understands the reference, or he will just think I'm talking about the election of Warnock.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> @UltraSUPRA will not be joining us for the remainder of this thread's limited lifespan, I asked nicely. The same rule will be applied to anyone else purposefully breaking the rules just for the sake of using inflammatory language and causing arguments. The politics section was designed with civil discussion in mind, anyone who can't meet this (rather low) bar of acceptable behaviour will be suspended until after the inauguration.


Clarification: Where does dunking on someone become unacceptable? Is it a language, tone or insult-count issue? If I insult someone in the midst of a message laden with substance, is it okay? If I prove that they are, in fact, a monkey-brained simpleton, am I allowed to call them that?
I'm half joking, but I am looking for the line so I can remain funny while not causing problems.

inb4 "you aren't funny" ya meanies


----------



## SG854 (Jan 19, 2021)

Seliph said:


> This thread reminds me of that episode of Community where Troy walks into his apartment with a box of pizza only to find that everyone inside has gone nuts and everything is on fire



Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed
She was looking kind of dumb with her finger and her thumb
In the shape of an "L" on her forehead


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> That was truly the darkest timeline. Hopefully Foxi4 understands the reference, or he will just think I'm talking about the election of Warnock.


A dark winter is coming.


Darth Meteos said:


> Clarification: Where does dunking on someone become unacceptable? Is it a language, tone or insult-count issue? If I insult someone in the midst of a message laden with substance, is it okay? If I prove that they are, in fact, a monkey-brained simpleton, am I allowed to call them that?
> I'm half joking, but I am looking for the line so I can remain funny while not causing problems.
> 
> inb4 "you aren't funny" ya meanies


Type out your message, read it to yourself and figure out if you would feel personally slighted if you were on the receiving end - that's a pretty good benchmark. I'm not opposed to having a bit of fun, but if the post is using derogatory language, denigrates a user's innate characteristics, religion or strongly-held beliefs, it has to go. There's a fine line between funny and mean-spirited, so if you think your post is the funny kind, you better hope I'll laugh when I read it. 

Honestly though, just don't call people names y'all. Imagine you're arguing with grandma or something.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> @UltraSUPRA will not be joining us for the remainder of this thread's limited lifespan, I asked nicely. The same rule will be applied to anyone else purposefully breaking the rules just for the sake of using inflammatory language and causing arguments. The politics section was designed with civil discussion in mind, anyone who can't meet this (rather low) bar of acceptable behaviour will be suspended until after the inauguration.


I'll just wait till the last moment to make my final speech... Lol.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> I'll just wait till the last moment to make my final speech... Lol.


This man is smart.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> This man is smart.


Well you know, gotta keep the best for last... Then get suspended for a few hours... Then be back in the game for the next brutal topic of discussion. Lol... Honestly I'm looking forward for the end of the inauguration, but not really for the end of this discussion.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me
> I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed
> She was looking kind of dumb with her finger and her thumb
> In the shape of an "L" on her forehead


On the note of song references:
Donny got them hit-rock-bottom jeans
Man never learns
The world looks at us now and sees a giant turd


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Honestly I'm looking forward for the end of the inauguration, but not really for the end of this discussion.


dogpiling on people who are obviously wrong will never truly die on the internet


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> dogpiling on people who are obviously wrong will never truly die on the internet


On one hand, I yearn for this to end.
On the other hand, I moreso yearn for this to sit and steep at a level reasonable enough to stay alive but just crazy enough to serve as peak comedy.
Too hot, too cold, just right. (Not just right-wing, though- there's already enough of _those_ echo chambers, and I'm glad this isn't one of them.)


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 19, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Nobody seriously attempted, nor advocated for, overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.


Except famous people:  (at 03:00)
People tried to overthrow the results for 4 years by advocating the "nothing burger" Russia Gate.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Except famous people:  (at 03:00)
> People tried to overthrow the results for 4 years by advocating the "nothing burger" Russia Gate.



Russia objectively meddled in the 2016 election, and regardless, nobody seriously tried to overthrow the election results.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Russia objectively meddled in the 2016 election, and regardless, nobody seriously tried to overthrow the election results.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections


The tried to impeach Trump, which is a way to overtthrow election results. Wikipedia is biased in terms of politics.
I have known this for many years based on how German editors edit articles.
Russians are the scape goat of the West. Maybe I am a Russian bot.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 19, 2021)

*My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell Says Bed Bath And Beyond, Kohl’s To Drop His Products*
I guess Mike is losing his Pillow Empire ...even before Dominion gets a hold of him.


----------



## Viri (Jan 19, 2021)

Would be kinda nice if Biden did what no other President has done, and finally recognize the Armenian genocide.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 19, 2021)

Viri said:


> Would be kinda nice if Biden did what no other President has done, and finally recognize the Armenian genocide.



Don't think so.  Friendly reminder of what Joe was a part of.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Don't think so.  Friendly reminder of what Joe was a part of.


Friendly reminder that the guy leading that effort won the Nobel Peace Prize before he did anything, and never got it rescinded.

Without mincing words: *FUCK* Obama.


----------



## Viri (Jan 19, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Don't think so. Friendly reminder of what Joe was a part of.





Darth Meteos said:


> Friendly reminder that the guy leading that effort won the Nobel Peace Prize before he did anything, and never got it rescinded.
> 
> Without mincing words: *FUCK* Obama.


Yeah, it's pretty amusing how the guy who won a Nobel Peace prize was such a warmonger. I'm sure Doctors without Borders don't miss Obama.

It would be pretty nice for a US President to recognize the Armenian Genocide though.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Friendly reminder that the guy leading that effort won the Nobel Peace Prize before he did anything, and never got it rescinded.
> 
> Without mincing words: *FUCK* Obama.


I maintain that McCain would've been even worse, especially with Sarah Palin as VP, but that just goes to show American politics are a special kind of dumpster fire in which we only get to choose between bad and worse.  Center-right and far-right.  It's why I'm still itching to make a permanent move out of this country.  At best, Biden is a temporary reprieve from fascism, he doesn't have the balls nor the desire necessary to root it out at the source.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I maintain that McCain would've been even worse, especially with Sarah Palin as VP, but that just goes to show American politics are a special kind of dumpster fire in which we only get to choose between bad and worse.  Center-right and far-right.  It's why I'm still itching to make a permanent move out of this country.  At best, Biden is a temporary reprieve from fascism, he doesn't have the balls nor the desire necessary to root it out at the source.


If it wasn't for my family (mother mostly) I would of already been out of this country.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 19, 2021)

Woot! Today is the last day Donald Trump being President of the United States!


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I maintain that McCain would've been even worse, especially with Sarah Palin as VP, but that just goes to show American politics are a special kind of dumpster fire in which we only get to choose between bad and worse.  Center-right and far-right.  It's why I'm still itching to make a permanent move out of this country.  At best, Biden is a temporary reprieve from fascism, he doesn't have the balls nor the desire necessary to root it out at the source.


Oh, McCain would have been worse, just like H.W. Bush was worse. But Obama had the temerity to give us hope and squandered it.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Do I sense a touch of whataboutery?



Do I sense passive aggressiveness? In both cases black people were accused of rape.



monkeyman4412 said:


> well he was arguing " There's no difference between killing normal citizens compared to kill government officials."
> There is. One group was democratically elected, and hold positions of power. The other (normal people) isn't.



Who gets killed is obviously important to the person being killed and those with more resources will be able to try harder to avoid being killed.

But from the point of view of crossing the line between going from being someone who hasn't murdered someone, to someone who has then I don't see the difference in the target.

It seems like you're arguing over two different meanings of a sentence.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

Be funny if they try to impeach biden on his 1st day also 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sy...peach-joe-biden-on-jan-21.html?outputType=amp 2 presidents back to back facing impeachment at the same time. Can't make this shit up.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Viri said:


> Yeah, it's pretty amusing how the guy who won a Nobel Peace prize was such a warmonger. I'm sure Doctors without Borders don't miss Obama.



Didn't he inherit a bunch of wars?

I kinda feel like you don't like Obama for a bunch of reasons, but you don't think they are compelling enough to an audience and so you go with these.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Who gets killed is obviously important to the person being killed and those with more resources will be able to try harder to avoid being killed.
> 
> But from the point of view of crossing the line between going from being someone who hasn't murdered someone, to someone who has then I don't see the difference in the target.
> 
> It seems like you're arguing over two different meanings of a sentence.


In a purely moral sense the profession of a murder victim is completely irrelevant - murder is murder. Government officials are not holy cows who somehow deserve more reverence than others - we all bleed. In a strictly legal sense, there is a difference as a murder involving a politician is subject to a different legal standard. It can be classified as assassination if the murder was directly influenced by the victim's political activities. A few examples would be:

18 U.S. Code § 111 (assaulting, resisting or impeding government official)

18 U.S.C. § 112 (various infractions against foreign officials, official guests and internationally protected persons)

18 U.S.C. § 351 (assassination, kidnapping or assault of members of Congress or Supreme Court justices)

18 U.S.C. § 1751 (assassination, kidnapping or assault of the President or presidential staff)
...among others.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> Be funny if they try to impeach biden on his 1st day also
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/us-news/2021/01/rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-says-shell-file-to-impeach-joe-biden-on-jan-21.html?outputType=amp 2 presidents back to back facing impeachment at the same time. Can't make this shit up.


If it doesn't pass the House, he's technically not "facing impeachment," and it's obviously not even going to come close.  This is just petty and childish.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The tried to impeach Trump, which is a way to overtthrow election results. Wikipedia is biased in terms of politics.
> I have known this for many years based on how German editors edit articles.
> Russians are the scape goat of the West. Maybe I am a Russian bot.



Trump was not impeached for anything to do with the 2016 election.
Wikipedia is not politically biased. It's the best compendium of information on this planet.
The Russians demonstrably meddled with the 2016 election to help Trump and hurt Clinton.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Trump was not impeached for anything to do with the 2016 election.
> Wikipedia is not politically biased. It's the best compendium of information on this planet.
> The Russians demonstrably meddled with the 2016 election to help Trump and hurt Clinton.


1. So they didn´t want to impeach him by claiming he had secret connections to Russia (regarding the election)? Then why was he called Putins puppet for 4 years in mainstream media?
2.  It is, I have seen it myself. Not so much a question of left vs right but mainstream or not.
3. Hopefully. Americans are meddling in elections around the world. But besides facebook ads there is not much evidence it came from the Russian government.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> 1. So they didn´t want to impeach him by claiming he had secret connections to Russia (regarding the election)?


They didn't try impeachment for that reason as investigations were still on going AFAIK.
However he was impeached over the Ukraine call. Those connections btw aren't really secret. Now said investigations were repeatedly obstructed by the president himself.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> 2. It is, I have seen it myself. Not so much a question of left vs right but mainstream or not.


Anecdotal evidence doesn't really work.
Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, however that also means under scrutiny of everyone. Generally speaking Wikipedia will be accurate(if the topic has a lot of conversation) 
(and even then edits don't just show up. those talk pages exist for a reason)
So I highly doubt it really is left vs right.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 19, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, however that also means under scrutiny of everyone.


There is an editing hierarchy and the editors are not neutral.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> If you're talking about UK centrism and not US centrism, you are alright in my book. I am still quite a bit to your left, but you aren't... well. Look around. We have enough common ground that being adversarial is ridiculous, at the very least!


Yes, I'm with you on that one. You seem reasonable enough, at least, more reasonable than 'dEaD pEoPlE vOtEd' 



Lacius said:


> Oh, and the Electoral College exists largely due to the racist concerns of slave states who wanted power without giving a significant percentage of their population (Black people) voting rights.


I can't speak on my own knowledge regarding how true this is, but this honestly wouldn't surprise me. Back in the slave era both the North and the South did what they could to get one off on each other, so it really wouldn't be a shocker to me if the electoral college was invented by the South to give Southern slave states more legitimacy and power in Congress. Arguably it's still serving that same purpose today, albeit not for slavery, just for the GOP.



Seliph said:


> Centrists are just right-wingers who are too afraid to admit it





Lacius said:


> Centrists are often left-wing progressives who are too afraid to admit it.


I'm neither. I am a true centrist. Arguably I'm not even a centrist because I don't see myself as participating in the political spectrum. But that's a matter of definition.



smf said:


> Do I sense passive aggressiveness? In both cases black people were accused of rape.


How is that passive-aggressive?  And also, ok, fair enough. I thought you were alluding to 'but what about that time white people raped black women?', based on the events of that uprising.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> mainstream or not.


This is another way of saying 'my fringe views should be valued as much as normal, moderate views'.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> How is that passive-aggressive?  And also, ok, fair enough. I thought you were alluding to 'but what about that time white people raped black women?', based on the events of that uprising.



Because you accused me of something without making a point and without seemingly without reading the link as there were no rapes by white people mentioned in it.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Because you accused me of something without making a point and without seemingly without reading the link as there were no rapes by white people mentioned in it.


I know, I later read through it.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There is an editing hierarchy and the editors are not neutral.



So you ignore wikipedia because the editors aren't neutral, but believe every tweet from Trump?



Cryoraptor said:


> I know, I later read through it.



Accuse first, gather facts later. I can see a flaw in that.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Accuse first, gather facts later. I can see a flaw in that.


I know, I fucked up on that one.


----------



## Valwinz (Jan 19, 2021)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Biden currently doesn't have control. he is not in office yet. Trump is.


Nancy was there speaking to the troops so yes the Dems have full control of them. it is unconstitutional that's no power of her but they have a literal standing army in dc because Biden won by so much and is so love that needs them to keep people out of the capital nothing odd here.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Nancy was there speaking to the troops so yes the Dems have full control of them. it is unconstitutional that's no power of her but they have a literal standing army in dc because Biden won by so much and is so love that needs them to keep people out of the capital nothing odd here.


I know you’re probably trying to spout some bullshit but Biden needs a standing army for protection *because Trumpers staged a violent riot against our very democracy before and likely will again on Inauguration Day*


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I know you’re probably trying to spout some bullshit but Biden needs a standing army for protection *because Trumpers staged a violent riot against our very democracy before and likely will again on Inauguration Day*


I hope (and wouldnt be surprised) if they do. Truthfully we need to get rid of both parties and start over fresh. End this bs "best of the worst" and "career" politicians. Force a complete reset. The government no longer works for the people. It's the only way real change will come about.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> I hope (and wouldnt be surprised) if they do. Truthfully we need to get rid of both parties and start over fresh. End this bs "best of the worst" and "career" politicians. Force a complete reset. The government no longer works for the people. It's the only way real change will come about.


Hope?!
Dude, a reset could be a good thing, but the way to do that is not a blatantly partisan *coup.*


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

Are we to trust our government to do it. At some point it just has to be done be it by force or otherwise. (Don't get me wrong I was not for the Trump rally In DC. Nor do I believe it was a true "coup" that the media is blowing it out to be. If it was they would of killed a lot more people they had the fire power to do so. Most was really just peacefully protesting.) Too many people rely on the government and take everything they say at truth. Was their voter fraud who knows can you prove it no because you can't just look at the ballot and say OK Mary Jane who lives at 123 fake st. Voted for Trump OK Mary is that who you voted for or did someone take the ballots and switch them. Since their was no evidence someone did that and you can't back check the ballots to make sure that's the case mail in ballots cannot be trusted and should never have been a mass way to vote. If you can't vote in person/with a valid ID then you shouldn't of got to vote. (Except out of country deployed troops and other very "limited" groups.) People will always question this election because of it and many will never trust any others are ever fair again. For that matter a closed source voting machine tallying up votes in a way that can't be checked especially by the regular voters. You always have to take this person's or that person's word that it was a fair election also raises doubt in people. And telling people to "just trust the government" is ignorant because they would never lie to you. You can call me stupid or paranoid or what ever you want but the truth is the government can only be trusted as far as the first redacted page and they like to keep a lot of secrets from the ones paying their checks.


----------



## urherenow (Jan 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Nancy was there speaking to the troops so yes the Dems have full control of them. it is unconstitutional that's no power of her but they have a literal standing army in dc because Biden won by so much and is so love that needs them to keep people out of the capital nothing odd here.


wait... so when Biden wins by 5 million people, it's "so much", but when 4 million people lose thier insurance and have to switch doctors, it's a lie or not even worth mentioning?

Math is hard, I guess.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 19, 2021)

*Hillary Clinton: Donald Trump Has History of Complaining About Rigging*



This video was taken from the 3rd and final Presidential debate held on October, 19th, 2016.  Everything Clinton said about Trump in this video was not only 100% true, but served as a foreshadowing clue of what was yet to come.  Below are a few archived tweets where Trump alleged rigging of some kind.  Notice the dates of the top two tweets regarding election rigging?  They were made BEFORE each election was held...


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Nancy was there speaking to the troops so yes the Dems have full control of them.



Someone speaking is not the same as full control.



wartutor said:


> If it was they would of killed a lot more people they had the fire power to do so.



The people who stormed the capitol were just plain morons. The kind of people that shouldn't be allowed guns, because they are likely to shoot themselves. The second amendment is basically a load of rubbish that has been kept to patronize those kinds of idiots, sure you can bear arms & if you try to use them you'll eventually get a drone strike on your ass.

They thought it would be easy and it kinda was easy to get into the building, because it's just a building but they hadn't got a single thought about what they would do when they got there. Because they, like anyone who thinks a coup is the way forward, is dumb.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> Are we to trust our government to do it. At some point it just has to be done be it by force or otherwise. (Don't get me wrong I was not for the Trump rally In DC. Nor do I believe it was a true "coup" that the media is blowing it out to be. If it was they would of killed a lot more people they had the fire power to do so. Most was really just peacefully protesting.) Too many people rely on the government and take everything they say at truth. Was their voter fraud who knows can you prove it no because you can't just look at the ballot and say OK Mary Jane who lives at 123 fake st. Voted for Trump OK Mary is that who you voted for or did someone take the ballots and switch them. Since their was no evidence someone did that and you can't back check the ballots to make sure that's the case mail in ballots cannot be trusted and should never have been a mass way to vote. If you can't vote in person/with a valid ID then you shouldn't of got to vote. (Except out of country deployed troops and other very "limited" groups.) People will always question this election because of it and many will never trust any others are ever fair again. For that matter a closed source voting machine tallying up votes in a way that can't be checked especially by the regular voters. You always have to take this person's or that person's word that it was a fair election also raises doubt in people. And telling people to "just trust the government" is ignorant because they would never lie to you. You can call me stupid or paranoid or what ever you want but the truth is the government can only be trusted as far as the first redacted page and they like to keep a lot of secrets from the ones paying their checks.


first off, I almost had a stroke trying to read that for several reasons
second off, it was an ATTEMPTED coup
specifically, attempted by complete and utter idiots that had no clue what they were doing


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

urherenow said:


> wait... so when Biden wins by 5 million people, it's "so much", but when 4 million people lose thier insurance and have to switch doctors, it's a lie or not even worth mentioning?
> 
> Math is hard, I guess.



It's not a math issue, I think you misunderstand the facts of the case (either on purpose, or for some other reason).



Plasmaster09 said:


> first off, I almost had a stroke trying to read that for several reasons
> second off, it was an ATTEMPTED coup
> specifically, attempted by complete and utter idiots that had no clue what they were doing



Like Elizabeth from Knoxville, I'd describe it as a failed revolution.

https://www.thefocus.news/business/elizabeth-its-a-revolution/

It's so unfair that they used mace, didn't they know they should have welcomed them with open arms?

They were only did it because Trump told them to do it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/nyregion/protesters-blaming-trump-pardon.html

It's hilarious that Trump is denying responsibility for something his own supporters say he did & the world witnessed him doing it. What an absolute piece of shit Trump is.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 19, 2021)

its starting.....the first Conspiracy charge
*U.S. files conspiracy charge against Oath Keeper leader in alleged plot against the Capitol*


--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

and yess... its an Attempted COUP... Just because a Dumbass Horribly  fails at trying to MURDER someone... that does not mean they are off the hook and not going to get arrested and charged


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> It's not a math issue, I think you misunderstand the facts of the case (either on purpose, or for some other reason).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I pray the 'unfair' bit is sarcasm (probably, but it's hard to tell) considering how damn overenthusiastic the cops were to fend off _peaceful BLM protests_ with rubber bullets and tear gas and shit.
But yeah, Trump is such a POS that calling him one is an insult to *literal feces.*


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I pray the 'unfair' bit is sarcasm (probably, but it's hard to tell) considering how damn overenthusiastic the cops were to fend off _peaceful BLM protests_ with rubber bullets and tear gas and shit.



In general the reception was softer & some cops appear to support the failed revolution, but once inside there was resistance.

BLM got rubber bullets and tear gas by the cops outside, I would expect they would have received the same welcome inside the building as Trumps lynch mob.

If you can't understand the sarcasm, then you probably should take a break from the internet.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> its starting.....the first Conspiracy charge
> *U.S. files conspiracy charge against Oath Keeper leader in alleged plot against the Capitol*
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I agree that anyone and everyone during any of these riots should be arrested and procuted they broke the law and should pay. I just don't believe it was as bad or as big of a deal as the media is tryin to make it. It was mostly a bunch of dumb ass hicks goin "hold my beer" as they took selfies and videos of themselves doin stupid shit. A few probably went in there thinking they were goin to get something accomplished but most was just stupid ass mob mentality.



smf said:


> In general the reception was softer & some cops appear to support the failed revolution, but once inside there was resistance.
> 
> BLM got rubber bullets and tear gas by the cops outside, I would expect they would have received the same welcome inside the building as Trumps lynch mob.
> 
> If you can't understand the sarcasm, then you probably should take a break from the internet.



Peaceful down town Louisville KY looked like a damn bomb went off and it wasnt the only city every one they went to destruction followed


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> A few probably went in there thinking they were goin to get something accomplished but most was just stupid ass mob mentality.



They were all "stupid ass mob mentality", but they do appear to have expected that what they did would make a difference. Which is also stupid.

They were all in it as deep as each other.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> In general the reception was softer & some cops appear to support the failed revolution, but once inside there was resistance.
> 
> BLM got rubber bullets and tear gas by the cops outside, I would expect they would have received the same welcome inside the building as Trumps lynch mob.
> 
> If you can't understand the sarcasm, then you probably should take a break from the internet.


look, people have gotten so batcrap insane that Poe's Law is practically a metaphysical law now


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> Peaceful down town Louisville KY looked like a damn bomb went off and it wasnt the only city every one they went to destruction followed



Large amounts of people always make it look untidy, you'll have to make more objective statements than "looked like a damn bomb went off"

Maybe it had something to do with the far right activists

_As the Kentucky Derby got underway Saturday, the city of Louisville saw protests from far-right activists and those calling for justice in the aftermath of Breonna Taylor's fatal shooting by Louisville, Kentucky, police._


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Large amounts of people always make it look untidy, you'll have to make more objective statements than "looked like a damn bomb went off"
> 
> Maybe it had something to do with the far right activists
> 
> _As the Kentucky Derby got underway Saturday, the city of Louisville saw protests from far-right activists and those calling for justice in the aftermath of Breonna Taylor's fatal shooting by Louisville, Kentucky, police._


Lol it tells me that page doesn't exist. But yeah every window busted out, buildings burnt, rioting and looting. Calling for justice is OK. When u break the law doing it that goes into a whole other category and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Just like trumps proud boys and their stupid ass "coupe" attempt you break the law you should pay. These people want to prosecute one side and give the other a free pass. Where was the fast flight response When the other side was burning and looting. Wait Noone wanted to order it due to fear of being called racist. You can no longer disagree with that side without being called a racist, nazi, or some other term your group has recently came up with. "Karen or Chad as you like to say." Isn't lumping a group of people "based on age and race" under one name still considered racist or does it not apply to your side? Calling out and associating groups of people to a specific term is racist no matter how you look at it.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> Lol it tells me that page doesn't exist. But yeah every window busted out, buildings burnt, rioting and looting. Calling for justice is OK. When u break the law doing it that goes into a whole other category and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Just like trumps proud boys and their stupid ass "coupe" attempt you break the law you should pay. These people want to prosecute one side and give the other a free pass. Where was the fast flight response When the other side was burning and looting. Wait Noone wanted to order it due to fear of being called racist. You can no longer disagree with that side without being called a racist, nazi, or some other term your group has recently came up with. "Karen or Chad as you like to say." Isn't lumping a group of people "based on age and race" under one name still considered racist or does it not apply to your side? Calling out and associating groups of people to a specific term is racist no matter how you look at it.


ok this is an absolute mess
firstly, even if the total death tally in all BLM protests exceeds that of the riot, *this was one riot and it killed five people, as well as having clear violent intent the entire time*
secondly, the "other side" WASN'T burning or looting for the most part
the vast majority of actual violence in the BLM protests was either from overzealous police escalating things (which was literally part of the problem the protests were protesting against) or from far-right lunatics deliberately instigating violence
thirdly, "you can no longer disagree with that side without being called a racist" is classic persecution-complex DARVO argument bullshit and we all know it- deny racism, verbally attack the protestors and then back down and act like _they're somehow persecuting you by protesting about being discriminated against_
fourthly, Karen, Chad, etc. aren't based on age or race, they're personality descriptors
fifthly (is that even a word?), you're confusing racism with general bigotry, which makes it pretty clear you're just throwing around the term wildly with a side of tu quoque arguments as an excuse to blame the victim instead of actually caring about stopping racism (or stopping riots, for that matter)


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> But yeah every window busted out, buildings burnt, rioting and looting. Calling for justice is OK. When u break the law doing it that goes into a whole other category and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.



I agree, the problem you have when there is a large protest is that because the police are busy then other people will take advantage. You can't blame that on the protesters, only the individuals that took part in the illegal activity. Go ahead and find them and prosecute them. If you can find evidence against everyone that was there, then so be it.

With the storming of the capitol it's different, they were there because Trump told them to do it and they did it.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> ok this is an absolute mess


Yeah it kind of was lol.


Plasmaster09 said:


> firstly, even if the total death tally in all BLM protests exceeds that of the riot, *this was one riot and it killed five people, as well as having clear violent intent the entire time*


First I don't condone what they did in dc and don't see what the 5 dead have to do with the total deaths from BLM protests all I said is breaking the law is breaking the law and they should all be punished period.


Plasmaster09 said:


> secondly, the "other side" WASN'T burning or looting for the most part
> the vast majority of actual violence in the BLM protests was either from overzealous police escalating things (which was literally part of the problem the protests were protesting against) or from far-right lunatics deliberately instigating violence



I call bull shit on this one. Maybe (and I mean a big maybe) some can be blamed on far right but let's point fingers where they belong and that's at the rioters and looters. Also the media that refused to actually cover most of it and swept it under the rug as a "mostly peaceful protest." By that logic trumps failed "coup" was a mostly peaceful walk through the capital building.



Plasmaster09 said:


> thirdly, "you can no longer disagree with that side without being called a racist" is classic persecution-complex DARVO argument bullshit and we all know it- deny racism, verbally attack the protestors and then back down and act like _they're somehow persecuting you by protesting about being discriminated against_



Almost seams like your tryin to call me racist here without actually saying it. That being saaid I have watched in this thread where every Trump supporters has been compared to a nazi or called racist in some way or the other..



Plasmaster09 said:


> fourthly, Karen, Chad, etc. aren't based on age or race, they're personality descriptors
> fifthly (is that even a word?), you're confusing racism with general bigotry, which makes it pretty clear you're just throwing around the term wildly with a side of tu quoque arguments as an excuse to blame the victim instead of actually caring about stopping racism (or stopping riots, for that matter)



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-53588201

From the 1st paragraph

"Karen" has, in recent years, become a widespread meme referencing a specific type of middle-class white woman, who exhibits behaviours that stem from privilege.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_stereotype

Again from 1st paragraph

An *ethnic stereotype* (*national stereotype*, or *national character*) or *racial stereotype* is a system of beliefs about typical characteristics of members of a given ethnic group or nationality, their status, society and cultural norms.

Sounds kind of familiar.. A steriotype is a stereotype and hurts people feeling (not to mention hurts the fact that your trying to stop racism as it usually flames the person up more) until Humans can quit lumping each other into groups and trying to belittle them (aka until we can all see each other as equals and what we really are HUMANS) the world will never change.

Ps hope I quoted all that correct lol


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> Almost seams like your tryin to call me racist here without actually saying it. That being saaid I have watched in this thread where every Trump supporters has been compared to a nazi or called racist in some way or the other..



Anyone who compares the problems that happened at the BLM marches, to an attack on democracy that had the crowd calling on murdering people and specific threats to murder people is raising the suspicion that you are bigoted/racist/nazi.

It's not our fault if you can't objectively compare the two without prejudice.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> I agree, the problem you have when there is a large protest is that because the police are busy then other people will take advantage. You can't blame that on the protesters, only the individuals that took part in the illegal activity. Go ahead and find them and prosecute them. If you can find evidence against everyone that was there, then so be it.
> 
> With the storming of the capitol it's different, they were there because Trump told them to do it and they did it.


Trump told them that they can voice their discontent by protesting, so did everyone behind the BLM movement. Trump never included storming the Capitol as part of that protest, BLM organisers never mentioned looting or arson. I say that in a generous manner since some BLM organisers were in fact involved in illegal activity during the protests, including arson, but let's say they "didn't advocate for it" for the sake of the argument.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/philly-riots-charges-arson-police-cars-george-floyd-protests/

I simply don't see the difference. The "majority of the people who were protesting" were peaceful in both instances and a select few took things way too far.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Trump told them that they can voice their discontent by protesting, so did everyone behind the BLM movement. Trump never included storming the Capitol as part of that protest,



Between Trump and Rudy, the protesters at least thought they did & so did a lot of people watching on TV.

If Trump and Rudy didn't mean for it to happen then they are even dumber than anyone has ever accused them of being.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Anyone who compares the problems that happened at the BLM marches, to an attack on democracy that had the crowd calling on murdering people and specific threats to murder people is raising the suspicion that you are bigoted/racist/nazi.
> 
> It's not our fault if you can't objectively compare the two without prejudice.


I'm not comparing the BLM Marches to trumps minion March (I like that term may use it more lol) I'm comparing the riots that happened around the mostly peaceful protests. But thanks for sort of calling me racist and half way proving my point. BTW it isn't my fault if you can't distinguish between the totally legal (and justified) BLM March's and the unnecessary rioting and killing that followed (aka the reason the news called it and I quote "mostly peaceful.")


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Between Trump and Rudy, the protesters at least thought they did & so did a lot of people watching on TV.
> 
> If Trump and Rudy didn't mean for it to happen then they are even dumber than anyone has ever accused them of being.


The problem I have with your line of thinking is that Trump supporters, all +/- 75 million people who voted for him, are expected to take ownership of a small group of crazies who stormed the Capitol whereas there is no expectation of owning the violent rioters who demolished American cities on the other side - those events were "instigated by the police and far-right agitators" or some such nonsense. I'm sure some were, we both know the majority wasn't, and even if they were, saying that strips the rioters of any semblance of free will. They burned down Targets because someone told them to - okay.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 19, 2021)

*..whoa ..you smell that .....?*
[email protected] on the U.S. Capitol Attack: "The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people." pic.twitter.com/QIeviyHkl3— CSPAN (@cspan) January 19, 2021

...smells ....smells like Impeachment..


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The problem I have with your line of thinking is that Trump supporters, all +/- 75 million people who voted for him, are expected to take ownership of a small group of crazies who stormed the Capitol whereas there is no expectation of owning the violent rioters who demolished American cities on the other side



WTF are you going on about?

Trump and his crazies are the people who should be prosecuted, if you weren't inciting violence then I don't care if someone is dumb enough to be one of the 75 million people who support him.

Which is exactly what I am saying about the BLM marches, if you set fire to something, stole something or killed someone then sure they should be prosecuted.

This shit talk about sides being responsible is just so childish.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> WTF are you going on about?
> 
> Trump and his crazies are the people who should be prosecuted, if you weren't inciting violence then I don't care if someone is dumb enough to be one of the 75 million people who support him.
> 
> Which is exactly what I am saying about the BLM marches, if you set fire to something or stole something then sure they should be prosecuted.


I was talking more about equating the Trump rioters with the movement overall while extricating BLM rioters from theirs, but sure, both should be prosecuted. I also don't think Trump incited anything in his speech, but that's besides the point, people hear what they want to hear.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I was talking more about equating the Trump rioters with the movement overall



Nobody is doing that. I'm sure out of all the Trump supporters, some of them are nice people but I'm only holding the rioters and those who stoked the riots responsible for the riots.

There is a moral responsibility for those who were too scared to attend the riot, but liked the feeling of power by spreading information on social media that they knew to be false.

But in general I only hold Trump supporters responsible for supporting Trump, which is pretty unredeemable in itself.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Nobody is doing that. I'm sure out of all the Trump supporters, some of them are nice people but I'm only holding the rioters and those who stoked the riots responsible for the riots.


You're talking to one - I've always been a big Trumpkin. At least I hope I'm nice, I certainly try. I can agree with this sentiment, rioters should be prosecuted, I'll drink to that.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The problem I have with your line of thinking is that Trump supporters, all +/- 75 million people who voted for him, are expected to take ownership of a small group of crazies who stormed the Capitol whereas there is no expectation of owning the violent rioters who demolished American cities on the other side - those events were "instigated by the police and far-right agitators" or some such nonsense. I'm sure some were, we both know the majority wasn't, and even if they were, saying that strips the rioters of any semblance of free will. They burned down Targets because someone told them to - okay.


Wow, I never knew how easy it was to strike down a man made of straw until you showed me how


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> At least I hope I'm nice, I certainly try.



You know that on both sides of every war, each side thought they were the good guys.

It's not enough to hope or try. You have to endlessly question yourself, which right wingers think makes you look weak so they never do it. But that compounds every mistake into a bigger one.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

wartutor said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-53588201
> 
> From the 1st paragraph
> 
> ...


I mean
as a meme, it's often attributed to a certain personality combined with a certain ethnic stereotype
but when used to describe someone, it's generally just the personality (that kind of ultra-entitled "I matter more than you" bs) and the context (usually something like being an asshole to the personnel of some store)



Foxi4 said:


> I was talking more about equating the Trump rioters with the movement overall while extricating BLM rioters from theirs, but sure, both should be prosecuted. I also don't think Trump incited anything in his speech, but that's besides the point, people hear what they want to hear.


to be fair, we have actual evidence of right-wing counter-protestors fucking up BLM protests
like those pics of Jake Angeli/"Q Shaman" at a BLM rally holding a "Q Sent Me" sign- ya know, the ones people deliberately miscropped so that they could blame the Capitol riot on Democrats


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Wow, I never knew how easy it was to strike down a man made of straw until you showed me how


Just you wait until I start hacking at windmills, now that's a hoot! Jokes aside, I'm simply responding to the sentiment I often see online, not necessarily his sentiment specifically, and I think we found some common ground in the end, so I can't complain.


smf said:


> You know that on both sides of every war, each side thought they were the good guys.
> 
> It's not enough to hope or try. You have to endlessly question yourself, which right wingers think makes you look weak so they never do it. But that is a huge mistake.


I would describe that process as "trying" - less wordy, and conveys the same message.


Plasmaster09 said:


> to be fair, we have actual evidence of right-wing counter-protestors fucking up BLM protests
> like those pics of Jake Angeli/"Q Shaman" at a BLM rally holding a "Q Sent Me" sign- ya know, the ones people deliberately miscropped so that they could blame the Capitol riot on Democrats


I wouldn't be surprised if he was at some of those protests in earnest considering he was a common sight at many protests, particularly pertaining the environment. He's a radical climate change activist, and seems to be a fan of protests in general, whatever the cause.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> 1. So they didn´t want to impeach him by claiming he had secret connections to Russia (regarding the election)? Then why was he called Putins puppet for 4 years in mainstream media?
> 2.  It is, I have seen it myself. Not so much a question of left vs right but mainstream or not.
> 3. Hopefully. Americans are meddling in elections around the world. But besides facebook ads there is not much evidence it came from the Russian government.



Trump was never impeached for anything related to Russia.
Wikipedia is not biased. You are confusing standards of evidence for bias.
It's inexcusable and anti-democratic to say Russia "hopefully" meddled in the 2016 election. In addition, we have irrefutable evidence that Russia meddled in the 2016 election in ways other than, and more substantive than, "Facebook ads."


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Just you wait until I start hacking at windmills, now that's a hoot! Jokes aside, I'm simply responding to the sentiment I often see online, not necessarily his sentiment specifically, and I think we found some common ground in the end, so I can't complain.
> I would describe that process as "trying" - less wordy, and conveys the same message.


Alright then. It still feels like a bit of a copout but ok, this isn't my battle.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I would describe that process as "trying" - less wordy, and conveys the same message.



I'm not sure that someone who is nice would support Trump, because of all the pussy grabbing and the deceitful business practices. You have to really step so close to the line between nice and douche bag to support him, that one little slip and you're no longer nice.

conflicted republicans, well they have their cross to bare now.


but supporting him, that is kinda on a path to not being very nice at all.


----------



## leon315 (Jan 19, 2021)

tabzer said:


> View attachment 242157
> 
> This terrorist had the intention if killing sacred political leaders.  She surrendered her guns at the checkpoint, but she still has her hands!


this looks alike a lovely grandma who would offer a cookie to pedestrian, did she really bring a pistol to The Capitol and the chck point still let her in?! wtf in US?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

leon315 said:


> this looks alike a lovely grandma who would offer a cookie to pedestrian, did she really bring a pistol to The Capitol and the chck point still let her in?! wtf in US?


this is known and disproven, which you can find out by scrolling down a little past the quote
https://percolately.com/capitol-meemaw-not-at-riot/
she was at an entirely different demonstration in _kansas,_ one that was actually orderly, peaceful and legal to boot


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> I'm not sure that someone who is nice would support Trump, because of all the pussy grabbing and the deceitful business practices. You have to really step so close to the line between nice and douche bag to support him, that one little slip and you're no longer nice.
> 
> conflicted republicans, well they have their cross to bare now.
> 
> but supporting him, that is kinda on a path to not being very nice at all.


The use of the song was pretty obvious to me. Trump was saying that allowing illegal immigration to take place and looking the other way instead of dedicating serious resources to securing the border has foreseeable negative consequences, like a "snake coming back to bite you". He could've picked a better song or poem to convey the same idea, but I get the meaning he was trying to put across. Illegal immigration isn't a positive phenomenon, newsflash - it's illegal. Shocking opinion, I know. As Trump often mentioned on those very same rallies, a "big, beautiful wall" can only function if it also has "big gates" for those who wish to migrate legally. Securing the border, coupled with immigration reform, is a pretty good campaign slogan - we know this since he won that time. I'll take the bitter to get to the sweet in this instance. The situation at the southern border has been a humanitarian crisis for years, and not five minutes ago in historical terms it was the Democrats who were building physical barriers there - walls and fences "stopped working" circa 2016 when Trump started advocating that they're a good idea.


----------



## leon315 (Jan 19, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> this is known and disproven, which you can find out by scrolling down a little past the quote
> https://percolately.com/capitol-meemaw-not-at-riot/
> she was at an entirely different demonstration in _kansas,_ one that was actually orderly, peaceful and legal to boot


I SEE... so it was all liberals' doing responsible for this fake newz?


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Illegal immigration isn't a positive phenomenon, newsflash - it's illegal.



You can't assume correlation between those two things, it's perfectly possible for something to be objectively positive but still be illegal. All you have to do is pass a law.

Why would someone pass a law against something objectively positive? Because they are prejudiced.

The poem is more relevant about Trumps behavior than most immigrants, who only come to work so they can feed their families. For a nation of immigrants & I don't see any visas granted by the native americans, it's kinda rich.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 19, 2021)

when the choices are corporatists and fascists, saying you're a centrist who thinks both sides have a point still means you're a trash person

you are not enlightened or wise
"the fascists have a point" is a bad position

borders are not intrinsic physical laws of the universe
we invented them, and can also dispose of them or any laws related to them if it seems prudent

the same can also be said of any and all documents from the 18th century


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 19, 2021)

smf said:


> You can't assume correlation between those two things, it's perfectly possible for something to be objectively positive but still be illegal. All you have to do is pass a law.
> 
> Why would someone pass a law against something objectively positive? Because they are prejudiced..


I've said it a hundred times in these kinds of debates, so it feels stale when I say it for the 101st time, but it is what it is. I'm sure that there are many illegal immigrants who are simply looking for a better life, or seeking refuge from the cartels prevalent at the border. In fact, they're probably the majority. Here's the problem - there are cartels at the border. Sex trafficking, drug trafficking and illegal arms trade is commonplace, and has been for as long as there was a southern border. Communities that exist along it deserve to be protected from the negative effects of a patchy border, the government has a duty to address the issue.


----------



## smf (Jan 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Here's the problem - there are cartels at the border. Sex trafficking, drug trafficking and illegal arms trade is commonplace, and has been for as long as there was a southern border.



Those aren't going to be affected by anything Trump does. So his vilification of immigrants to try to solve that particular problem is at best ineffective and at worst evidence of prejudice.

Trump really does seem more interested in keeping immigrants away by separating the families up, than drugs/guns/people trafficking/etc.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 19, 2021)

As I have said previously Trump is hated here in Scotland for all his shady business deals he has done here. He is disliked so much there is a petition to get Glasgow Prestwick Airports name changed to Joe Biden International so every time Trump flies here he has to arrive at Joe Biden International 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...ion-rename-scottish-airport-near-23346910.amp


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

leon315 said:


> I SEE... so it was all liberals' doing responsible for this fake newz?


I... wha...
_brain short circuits trying to calculate the odds of seriousness, since for any sufficiently stupid statement there is ALWAYS someone that's going to spout it sincerely_


----------



## wartutor (Jan 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> when the choices are corporatists and fascists, saying you're a centrist who thinks both sides have a point still means you're a trash person
> 
> you are not enlightened or wise
> "the fascists have a point" is a bad position
> ...


We can do away with them and change the laws as we see fit. The thing is as of writing this they are illegal immigrants and laws are laws. When we start picking and choosing which ones we can break and what ones we want to uphold things start getting Grey and at that point who do you prosecute and who do u let get away with what. If it needs to be changed then it should be changed but until then it's still illegal and should come with consequences period.

 Example I can't say the law that says killing someone is stupid and expect to get away with murder. Or your favorite one it's stupid they say it's illegal to storm the capital so I'm going to and their will be no consequences


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 19, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> As I have said previously Trump is hated here in Scotland for all his shady business deals he has done here. He is disliked so much there is a petition to get Glasgow Prestwick Airports name changed to Joe Biden International so every time Trump flies here he has to arrive at Joe Biden International
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...ion-rename-scottish-airport-near-23346910.amp



Scottish population = 5,460,000.
Signatures on that petition = 2500

TrUmp Is HaTeD sO mUcH lOl


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 19, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Scottish population = 5,460,000.
> Signatures on that petition = 2500
> 
> TrUmp Is HaTeD sO mUcH lOl


realistically that's still a good indicator considering that's just the amount of people that actually a) give a shit about US politics, b) know about that petition, c) know a decent amount about Trump and d) bothered to sign it


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 19, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Scottish population = 5,460,000.
> Signatures on that petition = 2500
> 
> TrUmp Is HaTeD sO mUcH lOl


Oh its not like there was a huge protest here the last time Trump visited and the streets of Edinburgh were full of protesters. 




 

 

 

 I have many more pictures if you want


----------



## Doran754 (Jan 19, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Oh its not like there was a huge protest here the last time Trump visited and the streets of Edinburgh were full of protesters.
> 
> View attachment 242502 View attachment 242503 View attachment 242504 View attachment 242505 I have many more pictures if you want



Not really, It's no indicator of whether people support him in Scotland or not. What is an indicator though is the joke of a petition you linked too. Anyone from Scotland can sign it, so far about 0.05% of people have signed it. Are people meant too walk around in Trump gear in Scotland to signal how they feel about him? I think most people couldn't care less about him in Scotland or US politics in general.


----------



## CORE (Jan 19, 2021)

Why is this thread not in EOF?

It Clearly Belongs There.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 19, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> As I have said previously Trump is hated here in Scotland for all his shady business deals he has done here. He is disliked so much there is a petition to get Glasgow Prestwick Airports name changed to Joe Biden International so every time Trump flies here he has to arrive at Joe Biden International
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...ion-rename-scottish-airport-near-23346910.amp


...how bout..you just keep him....PLEASE
Signed- America


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

Warm welcome to the next president of the United States of America! Joe Biden is in Washington!


----------



## djpannda (Jan 19, 2021)

...DAMN Pence just gave Trump the COLD ASS shoulder ...
Official notice that Pence will attend inaugural and isn't scheduled to attend Trump's farewell event in the morning. Pence was spotted at the WH a few minutes ago. pic.twitter.com/UPWOgLThM5— Elizabeth Crisp 🦩 (@elizabethcrisp) January 19, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2021)

UltraSUPRA said:


> I'll believe that Biden won when Kamala leaves the Senate.


*Harris resigns from the Senate ahead of inauguration*
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics/kamala-harris-resignation-san-francisco-chronicle/index.html


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 19, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Warm welcome to the next president of the United States of America! Joe Biden is in Washington!


He's been in Washington for _years_. As a career, not a public service, mind you.
EDIT: Added italics to 'years'


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

0x3000027E said:


> He's been in Washington for _years_. As a career, not a public service, mind you.
> EDIT: Added italics to 'years'


What's your point? He just landed today for his inauguration tomorrow .... It's polite to great those you respect. Have a little respect!


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 19, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> What's your point? He just landed today for his inauguration tomorrow .... It's polite to great those you respect. Have a little respect!


Relax, friend. I'm not sure what has motivated you to react to my comment in such a way; it is certainly puzzling. 
I was just correcting a previous comment that supposed Biden had been visiting Washington for the first time. Is there some other reason you objected to my comment with such vigor?
Disrespectful in what manner?


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

0x3000027E said:


> Relax, friend. I'm not sure what has motivated you to react to my comment in such a way; it is certainly puzzling.
> I was just correcting a previous comment that supposed Biden had been visiting Washington for the first time. Is there some other reason you objected to my comment with such vigor?
> Disrespectful in what manner?



Your remarks and emphasis on _years_ was a snark response to my warm welcoming. It is not "puzzling" that I would put you back in your place after you trying to be "smart" with me. I can read between the lines... And italics.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 19, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Your remarks and emphasis on _years_ was a snark response to my warm welcoming. It is not "puzzling" that I would put you back in your place after you trying to be "smart" with me. I can read between the lines... And italics.


Senate seat from 1973 through 2009 is a long time. It's _years, (_as in decades), not years (as in a few). I was just emphasizing that for the interested reader. 
"Put me back in my place"? 
Sigh, partisan politics never ceases to amaze.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> *Harris resigns from the Senate ahead of inauguration*
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics/kamala-harris-resignation-san-francisco-chronicle/index.html


.... Shame bout Ultra ...  here’s one for my lil homey....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Someone need to compile all those “Mark my words, Biden will not be President”


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

0x3000027E said:


> Senate seat from 1973 through 2009 is a long time. It's _years, (_as in decades), not years (as in a few). I was just emphasizing that for the interested reader.
> "Put me back in my place"?
> Sigh, partisan politics never ceases to amaze.



Well thanks for pointing that out... Cause after all we are in the politics section and we are mostly all obviously following politics to be discussing it. I mean lets hope everyone knows that Biden has been here before not only as a Vice president but also as a senator.... I appreciate you pointing out that Biden has been here for _years. _Thanks_!_
So as I was saying.._.. _Welcome _back_ Joe Biden, to Washington. (see what I did there with the _back, _cause I mean he's been here before_) _


----------



## chrisrlink (Jan 19, 2021)

i cant wait for tomorrow to tell you trump supporters to pack it up and go home until 24 (which i highly doubt trump can even run let alone from prison i still have low level monetary bets banking on it )


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 19, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> i cant wait for tomorrow to tell you trump supporters to pack it up and go home until 24 (which i highly doubt trump can even run let alone from prison i still have low level monetary bets banking on it )



So..... what time exactly does this thread close?! Lol


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 19, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> So..... what time exactly does this thread close?! Lol



When it's adapted into an episode of 24.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 19, 2021)

I don't really know what to say in general that would wrap up the last 4 years, there's _so_ much one could draw from... Best I can personally do right now is, "Well, that got away from us really fast. Maybe don't do that again.  "

Cheers to the end of the thread lol


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> I don't really know what to say in general that would wrap up the last 4 years, there's _so_ much one could draw from... Best I can personally do right now is, "Well, that got away from us really fast. Maybe don't do that again.  "
> 
> Cheers to the end of the thread lol


It's like if our nation in its entirety got blackout drunk, pissed on its own family and stabbed a guy to death with a _squirrel_ before coming to its senses.


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 20, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> What's your point? He just landed today for his inauguration tomorrow .... It's polite to great those you respect. Have a little respect!



You and you liberal buddies spent 4 years bashing Trump and anyone that supported him on this forum. You've all spoke of wishing for his and our deaths and yet suddenly you expect us to support you? Your Liberal leaders boycotted Trump's inauguration so why should we support Bidens? Your talk of unity after 4 years of trying to divide the country is laughable. There won't be any peace or unity. I will spend the next 4 years making your lives a living hell.


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You and you liberal buddies spent 4 years bashing Trump and anyone that supported him on this forum. You've all spoke of wishing for his and our deaths and yet suddenly you expect us to support you? Your Liberal leaders boycotted Trump's inauguration so why should we support Bidens? Your talk of unity after 4 years of trying to divide the country is laughable. There won't be any peace or unity. I will spend the next 4 years making your lives a living hell.


 
All of this talk of "unity" is coming from the right, genius.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 20, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You and you liberal buddies spent 4 years bashing Trump and anyone that supported him on this forum. You've all spoke of wishing for his and our deaths and yet suddenly you expect us to support you? Your Liberal leaders boycotted Trump's inauguration so why should we support Bidens? Your talk of unity after 4 years of trying to divide the country is laughable. There won't be any peace or unity. I will spend the next 4 years making your lives a living hell.


Hillary Clinton attended Trump's inauguration, as did Obama.


----------



## wartutor (Jan 20, 2021)

So if Trump is impeached that means he can't run for president again correct...is their any law that will keep him from being vp with another candidate running in 2024?


----------



## Frankfort42 (Jan 20, 2021)

Both of you lying isn't going to help us heal. Heheheh .....



Sicklyboy said:


> All of this talk of "unity" is coming from the right, genius.



*Undeterred, Biden will push unity in a capital locked down after an insurrection*

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=biden+unity&t=ffab&iax=videos&ia=videos

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...937264-5775-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html



Lacius said:


> Hillary Clinton attended Trump's inauguration, as did Obama.


*
Here’s A Complete List Of Democrats Boycotting Trump’s Inauguration*

https://www.dailywire.com/news/heres-complete-list-democrats-boycotting-trumps-michael-qazvini
*
Political Amnesia: Look at All the Democrats Who Boycotted Trump's Inauguration*

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...ts-who-boycotted-trumps-inauguration-n1324479


----------



## Lacius (Jan 20, 2021)

wartutor said:


> So if Trump is impeached that means he can't run for president again correct...is their any law that will keep him from being vp with another candidate running in 2024?


Someone who is ineligible to be president cannot run for vice president. For example, someone who cannot be president because of term limits cannot run for vice president.



Frankfort42 said:


> Both of you lying isn't going to help us heal. Heheheh .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing I said was a lie.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> You and you liberal buddies spent 4 years bashing Trump and anyone that supported him on this forum. You've all spoke of wishing for his and our deaths and yet suddenly you expect us to support you? Your Liberal leaders boycotted Trump's inauguration so why should we support Bidens? Your talk of unity after 4 years of trying to divide the country is laughable. There won't be any peace or unity. I will spend the next 4 years making your lives a living hell.



Go back in hiding, I don't need your approval or support! See you in 4 years or probably sooner cause your sore butt is going to come out to bomb something in despair!


----------



## wartutor (Jan 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Someone who is ineligible to be president cannot run for vice president. For example, someone who cannot be president because of term limits cannot run for vice president.
> 
> 
> Nothing I said was a lie.


Thx knew you would know that lol. I thought so but wasn't sure myself


----------



## Sicklyboy (Jan 20, 2021)

You lying isn't going to help heal us heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh



Frankfort42 said:


> *Undeterred, Biden will push unity in a capital locked down after an insurrection*
> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=biden+unity&t=ffab&iax=videos&ia=videos
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...937264-5775-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html



I take it you didn't watch the impeachment hearing, where the republicans were condemning the democrats because this impeachment effort was unnecessary when the nation needs healing and unity.

https://www.thetimesherald.com/stor...ut-admits-words-have-consequences/6648340002/

https://theappeal.org/lawmakers-calling-for-unity-should-support-policies-voters-actually-want/

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/sarahmimms/republicans-object-biden-win-unity-capitol-attack

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a35191822/republicans-demand-democrats-unity-trump/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/11/phony-gop-calls-unity-deserve-nothing-contempt/

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/...ment/520-f0b05128-6cf3-431f-8bca-09e585b1940b

Try again hehehehehehehehehehehehehe


----------



## omgcat (Jan 20, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> There won't be any peace or unity. I will spend the next 4 years making your lives a living hell.



sounds like abuse to me, imagine being the side that fucked up the capitol and literally smeared shit on the walls of congress, and then acting like it's the other side who is being evil and destructive. you seem like the kind of person to hit a woman and then blame them for making you do it. you are unhinged and need to seek therapy or a mental health intervention. 

To make it 100% clear, you are in support of the president that lost the popular vote twice, has the lowest favorability rating in the history of gallup ( and the only one to never breach 50%), who had the presidency with the largest conviction count, claimed in both races that the election was rigged even though he won the first one, worst jobs trajectory (even pre-covid), stared directly at the sun during an eclipse, never read his intelligence briefings, drew on a map with a sharpie when he made a gaffe (WHICH WAS A CRIME BY THE WAY), threw paper towels at Puerto Ricans after a disastrous hurricane, bragged about how hard his cognitive decline test was, GOLFED MORE THAN 24% OF HIS ENTIRE TERM, first president to never divested his interests, forced secret service agents to stay at his own properties so he could make money off it, fuck the list never ends.

to top off the shit list, *HE ENCOURAGED INSURRECTION AND MORE OR LESS PERMANENTLY CRACKED OUR DEMOCRACY.*


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 20, 2021)

Only one term. Lost both houses during that term. Impeached twice and looking to be removed convicted too. You guys really know how to pick 'em.


----------



## Deleted member 412537 (Jan 20, 2021)

Did the bag of hot dogs go baibai?
Anyway, I can't wait to see Champ and Major arrive at the white house!


----------



## Xzi (Jan 20, 2021)

Trump is leaving office with three million less jobs than when he entered, the worst record for any president since the Great Depression.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

Frankfort42 said:


> I will spend the next 4 years making your lives a living hell.


When I popped back in, I didn't quite realize exactly what happened to warrant this guy getting the banhammer. I knew things had gotten batshit insane as usual, but I didn't figure out the exact statement.
And then I saw this.
They claim we don't want to cooperate or that we're ruining things, and then say shit like THIS in response to a loss they refuse to accept. Huh.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Trump is leaving office with three million less jobs than when he entered, the worst record for any president since the Great Depression.


To be fair, jobs growth probably wouldn't have been great even if he did the right thing with the virus.



Plasmaster09 said:


> When I popped back in, I didn't quite realize exactly what happened to warrant this guy getting the banhammer. I knew things had gotten batshit insane as usual, but I didn't figure out the exact statement.
> And then I saw this.
> They claim we don't want to cooperate or that we're ruining things, and then say shit like THIS in response to a loss they refuse to accept. Huh.


Didn't even know he was banned.


----------



## Xzi (Jan 20, 2021)

Trump is also the only president to never once reach a 50% approval rating since records started being kept in the 1930s.


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> To be fair, jobs growth probably wouldn't have been great even if he did the right thing with the virus.
> 
> 
> Didn't even know he was banned.


Ya true. I'm just glad Trump is out, no more circus craziness.

What has me worried is 20% of all money printed in the U.S. was printed last year in 2020. You can't expect to put all that money into circulation and not expect inflation to happen.

Plus more stimulus checks are to come and Biden is expected to give student loan forgiveness so printing huge amounts of money isn't going to stop. All that money printing has caused bitcoin to soar in value and the U.S. dollar to devalue. Prices are going to rise, housing and transportation going to be more expensive.

The $15 minimum wage isn't going to be the argument real soon anymore. Soon we are going to have arguments of raising the minimum wage to $20-25 an hour. People are panicking going to bitcoin for security which is limited in supply and not greatly affected by inflation since we can't print it easily like the U.S. dollar.


----------



## Blaze163 (Jan 20, 2021)

Regardless of what you think of Trump as a president, surely we're all decent enough to agree today's ceremony should go off without a hitch and not descend into anarchy and chaos. It doesn't matter which team you support, the game is over. Rioting after the ref blows the final whistle won't change the score so in the name of all that is holy can you all remain calm today? No beating policemen to death, no shitting on the walls like a cat with an attitude problem, etc? I don't think that's too much to ask from any modern civilized nation, especially one that keeps telling us it's the greatest country in the world despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


----------



## omgcat (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Ya true. I'm just glad Trump is out, no more circus craziness.
> 
> What has me worried is 20% of all money printed in the U.S. was printed last year in 2020. You can't expect to put all that money into circulation and not expect inflation to happen.



inflation can be tackled by taxing and disposing of the taxed money. most of the money pumped into the stock market during 2020 will eventually leave the economy as it is returned to the federal reserve. also the $15/hr minimum wage increase will not meaningfully inflate prices. there is no historical precedence for it. if it did, places with $15/hr min wage would already have increased in price.

https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/vie...redir=1&article=1278&context=up_workingpapers


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jan 20, 2021)

good fucking riddance trump i hereby appoint ye as the worst murican president in all of  history. now don't come back. and all you voteflakes can piss off now too


----------



## seany1990 (Jan 20, 2021)

How many hours until the inaug?


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 20, 2021)

In other news, Trump is thinking about making the "Patriot" Party.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 20, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> In other news, Trump is thinking about making the "Patriot" Party.


I remember how way back in 2016 I was telling people who were holding their noses unable to decide between Trump and Clinton and wishing for a third-party option that Trump *was* the third-party option, and it looks like I might be proven correct in more ways than the obvious one. I'm not opposed to the playing field expanding a bit, and Never Trumpers will appreciate his support base shifting to another party. It'd be interesting to see how such a party would turn out - Trump would have to ensure that some of his "edgier" supporters learned how optics work. At this stage just about anything is less of a joke than the contemporary Libertarian party, so hey, he can give it a spin.


----------



## Valwinz (Jan 20, 2021)

I still want to know why Biden has  65k troops are in dc


----------



## tabzer (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> I still want to know why Biden has  65k troops are in dc



How else is he going to get an audience?


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I remember how way back in 2016 I was telling people who were holding their noses unable to decide between Trump and Clinton and wishing for a third-party option that Trump *was* the third-party option, and it looks like I might be proven correct in more ways than the obvious one. I'm not opposed to the playing field expanding a bit, and Never Trumpers will appreciate his support base shifting to another party. It'd be interesting to see how such a party would turn out - Trump would have to ensure that some of his "edgier" supporters learned how optics work. At this stage just about anything is less of a joke than the contemporary Libertarian party, so hey, he can give it a spin.


If Trump forms a 3rd party and spilts the Republican vote in two then you can be sure that the Democrats will stay in power for the next 20 years, unless they were to split as well. Woodrow Wilson is a good example of why splitting a vote in two is a bad idea.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> I still want to know why Biden has  65k troops are in dc


*because Trump supporters attempted a fucking coup two weeks ago, do I need to spell it out any clearer than that?*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> I still want to know why Biden has  65k troops are in dc





tabzer said:


> How else is he going to get an audience?


Trump supporters, provoked by Trump and his allies lying about election fraud, engaged in an attempted armed insurrection against the Capitol, a democratic election, and the United States.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

omgcat said:


> sounds like abuse to me, imagine being the side that fucked up the capitol and literally smeared shit on the walls of congress, and then acting like it's the other side who is being evil and destructive. you seem like the kind of person to hit a woman and then blame them for making you do it. you are unhinged and need to seek therapy or a mental health intervention.
> 
> To make it 100% clear, you are in support of the president that lost the popular vote twice, has the lowest favorability rating in the history of gallup ( and the only one to never breach 50%), who had the presidency with the largest conviction count, claimed in both races that the election was rigged even though he won the first one, worst jobs trajectory (even pre-covid), stared directly at the sun during an eclipse, never read his intelligence briefings, drew on a map with a sharpie when he made a gaffe (WHICH WAS A CRIME BY THE WAY), threw paper towels at Puerto Ricans after a disastrous hurricane, bragged about how hard his cognitive decline test was, GOLFED MORE THAN 24% OF HIS ENTIRE TERM, first president to never divested his interests, forced secret service agents to stay at his own properties so he could make money off it, fuck the list never ends.
> 
> to top off the shit list, *HE ENCOURAGED INSURRECTION AND MORE OR LESS PERMANENTLY CRACKED OUR DEMOCRACY.*


Well... At least it's over now, right?



SG854 said:


> Soon we are going to have arguments of raising the minimum wage to $20-25 an hour


I hope not. That's an economic disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

omgcat said:


> inflation can be tackled by taxing and disposing of the taxed money. most of the money pumped into the stock market during 2020 will eventually leave the economy as it is returned to the federal reserve. also the $15/hr minimum wage increase will not meaningfully inflate prices. there is no historical precedence for it. if it did, places with $15/hr min wage would already have increased in price.
> 
> https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/vie...redir=1&article=1278&context=up_workingpapers



I didn't say anything about minimum wage inflating prices. I said the printed money will inflate prices. It's why bitcoin has rose in value. And increasing minimum wage to deal with increased prices caused by the printed money.


----------



## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> where the republicans were condemning the democrats because this impeachment effort was unnecessary when the nation needs healing and unity.



Right, the republicans don't want healing. They just want Trump to be let off the hook, the healing and unity is an excuse.

It's like when you sleep with your best friends girl and then when he finds out you just want to talk about it and not make any rash decisions.



SG854 said:


> I said the printed money will inflate prices. It's why bitcoin has rose in value.



Printing money will increase prices, because it deflates the value of the dollars. However as every country is going to do it, then it will probably balance itself out more than normal.

I am not convinced that was why people moved their money into bitcoins.


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

smf said:


> Right, the republicans don't want healing. They just want Trump to be let off the hook, the healing and unity is an excuse.
> 
> It's like when you sleep with your best friends girl and then when he finds out you just want to talk about it and not make any rash decisions.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I'm saying. Printing money, more of it in circulation causes the dollar to loose its value. And prices will inflate because of that. Supply and demand.

Bitcoin is a limited resource in amount so not caused by the same deflation, similar to gold. But problem no place accepts bitcoin. Only U.S. dollar is accepted.


----------



## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Exactly what I'm saying. Printing money, more of it in circulation causes the dollar to loose its value. And prices will inflate because of that. Supply and demand.



Well not exactly, because when the "print money" they don't actually print money. It might not increase the circulation.
But it does have an effect.



SG854 said:


> Bitcoin is a limited resource in amount so not caused by the same deflation, similar to gold. But problem no place accepts bitcoin. Only U.S. dollar is accepted.



Right & if all currencies become screwed then less people will want to buy bitcoin and it's price will decrease because it has no inherent value. Most people invested in bitcoin because of the bubble.

Technically new Bitcoin are constantly being mined. If I had any then I'd be selling now, the people predicting it will go to silly money are probably doing that themselves but in the meantime they need everyone to hold on for those ridiculous levels (I'd at least take out my original investment plus some, so I guaranteed a profit).


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 20, 2021)

Bitcoin is a waste of energy and full of bot manipulation. I would not trust it one second. The only benefit it really has is it's not govement controlled (yet).


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 20, 2021)

Well, probably going to be asleep during the inauguration. Hope I don't wake up to some other crazy thing.


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 20, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Well, probably going to be asleep during the inauguration. Hope I don't wake up to some other crazy thing.


With all the planned attacks from far-right terrorists for today i would not count on it. But hopefully it will be going peacefully.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> I hope not. That's an economic disaster waiting to happen.


Yeah, things need to be done bit by bit.
First bit: taxes. Gotta raise 'em at SOME point, especially for the people so rich that they _really don't need LESS taxes._
Second bit: obliterate all the scummy loopholes businesses use to either pay people below minimum wage or pay them little but keep them working a ton (i.e. the bullshit that's become known as "Walmart Full-Time").
Third bit: minimum wage boost.


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

smf said:


> Well not exactly, because when the "print money" they don't actually print money. It might not increase the circulation.
> But it does have an effect.
> 
> 
> ...


Bitcoin is too volatile. Its up down up down

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> Well not exactly, because when the "print money" they don't actually print money. It might not increase the circulation.
> But it does have an effect.
> 
> 
> ...


There's a limit on 21 million that  can be mined. We are 80% of the way their. Once its all mined it will tap out.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 20, 2021)

A new Chapter in U.S. Politics is opened..

Good Luck and all the Best.......for us all.....


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 20, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Only one term. Lost both houses during that term. Impeached twice and looking to be removed convicted too. You guys really know how to pick 'em.


Trump will be remembered at home and abroad as the worst US President in history.  Worse than Johnson and Buchanan, which is stunning considering how awful they were. 

The next Presidential historians survey is due out in 2022.  Trump will finish in last place *guar-an-teed*, which is where he'll likely remain for the rest of our lives.

Republicans just don't have a clue how to choose Presidents anymore.  Want to fix that?  Then don't nominate Ted Cruz or Don Jr. in 2024.  Find the next Eisenhower -- not the next conspiracy peddling mouth breather.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 20, 2021)

*It’s over he has finally left the Whitehouse for the last time *

Donald and Melania leave behind a White House in dire need of a deep clean after Covid was allowed to run riot through the West Wing and head for Marine One, taking them on to Maryland before they jet out for Florida.






Today the rest of the world stops laughing at America and we offer a huge welcome to the 46th President of the United States of America Joe Biden


----------



## ghjfdtg (Jan 20, 2021)

Would have been funnier if they had to drag him out while having his tantrum but oh well.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jan 20, 2021)

My last post on this thread will be the same as my first one:

Cope.


----------



## JaapDaniels (Jan 20, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> Would have been funnier if they had to drag him out while having his tantrum but oh well.


what? he didn't cry like a baby and got dragged out of the office by heavy armored military officers as i expected?
did he not even screamed how unfair the voting was?


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jan 20, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> This is another way of saying 'my fringe views should be valued as much as normal, moderate views'.


Why shouldn´t they? Truth is independent of majorities.
It is not even fringe. A lot of people do not buy the official 9/11 story. Yet wikipedia smeared people (including historians and scientists) for asking questions.


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> A lot of people do not buy the official 9/11 story. Yet wikipedia smeared people (including historians and scientists) for asking questions.


Define 'a lot'.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

I may not be available to post before this threads closes as I'll be working, but I just wanted to take a second to wish President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris a big warm welcome HOME! CONGRATULATIONS! I'm glad America has finally found normalcy. Glad to see Former Vice President Mike Pence join to inaugurate Joe Biden.

Almost forgot, to all you Republicans out there.... Time to heal the wounds!


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 20, 2021)

Dear Washington DC: Please stop distracting me from Lum.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 20, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Why shouldn´t they? Truth is independent of majorities.
> *It is not even fringe. A lot of people do not buy the official 9/11 story.* Yet wikipedia smeared people (including historians and scientists) for asking questions.




Speaking of not-even-fringe conspiracy theories:



> *34% of Republicans believe the pandemic aka "PLAN-demic" was deliberately planned:*
> https://www.courthousenews.com/pew-says-plandemic-theory-sowed-doubt-in-25-of-us/





> *44% of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements:*
> https://news.yahoo.com/new-yahoo-ne...ght-may-hamper-vaccine-efforts-152843610.html





> *56% of Republicans believe that QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory, is mostly or partly true:*
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...theory-is-partly-or-mostly-true-survey-finds/





> *70% of Republicans say the "deep state" is trying to overthrow Trump:*
> https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...mericans-favor-impeachment-want-trump-removed





> *66% of Trump's supporters believe that Obama is a Muslim:*
> https://www.publicpolicypolling.com...nk-obama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country/





> *72% percent of registered Republican voters still doubt President Obama's citizenship:*
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...partisan-divide-over-birther-question-n627446





> *77% of Republicans believe there was widespread fraud in the presidential election:*
> https://www.courant.com/politics/hc...0201210-pcie3uqqvrhyvnt7geohhsyepe-story.html





> *83% of Republicans polled after the 2020 election said they didn't believe Joe Biden won:*
> https://www.businessinsider.com/maj...elieve-biden-won-election-gallup-poll-2020-12




I guess we need to take these conspiracy theories seriously because "a lot of people" believe this garbage?  And then there's this:



> *90% of Republicans trust Trump to give them accurate information about Covid-19:*
> https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/03/24/who-americans-trust-covid





> *83% of Republicans believe Trump is honest:*
> https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2431


----------



## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> Speaking of not-even-fringe conspiracy theories:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It seems like the only time Trump was telling the truth was when he said Republicans would 'believe anything on fox news'.


----------



## tinkle (Jan 20, 2021)

I’m so glad we won’t have to suffer listening to MAGA Snowflakes anymore, my goodness. The nightmare is over.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

I'll have my "last, I promise, I won't have just ONE more witty jab" (yes, I absolutely will) post in this thread with a similar air to how I started in it:
Mister Trump... *you're fired.*
Viva la Biden, and may the Don's abhorrent legacy be erased from this earth.


----------



## Lumstar (Jan 20, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> It seems like the only time Trump was telling the truth was when he said Republicans would 'believe anything on fox news'.



The extent of the startling transformation has me aghast. Where were the conspiracy theorists four years ago, and how did they infiltrate the party?


----------



## Valwinz (Jan 20, 2021)

Wow Biden inauguration is empty and we are suppose to believe he is more popular than Obama lol


----------



## djpannda (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Wow Biden inauguration is empty and we are suppose to believe he is more popular than Obama lol


..No, Trump was so hated, We would have voted for A Cheese Sandwich over Trump


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> The extent of the startling transformation has me aghast. Where were the conspiracy theorists four years ago, and how did they infiltrate the party?


Here's how.
Ingredients:
3 gal nationalism ("Alleged Patriot" brand preferable)
4 cups bigotry
between 9-11 tsp gullibility (if needed, bovine feces can be used as a suitable replacement)
about 2/3 (0.666) L evangelical extremism (when preparing, be sure to conflate atheism with misotheism for that extra-spicy-hot flavor- especially if you plan on serving this with frankfurters)
5 lbs logical fallacies
2 tbsp indoctrination
one clockwise swastika
one persecution complex, extra-thick
add dogwhistles to taste
Recipe:
1) Just shove it all in a pot, mix it all together haphazardly and piss on the pot. Scoop portions out with bare hands.
2) Blame any imperfections on opponents that may or may not even exist.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ..No, Trump was so hated, We would have voted for A Cheese Sandwich over Trump


Omg... Did someone say cheese sandwich?!


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 20, 2021)

Finally this thread can get it´s well deserved rest!


----------



## Valwinz (Jan 20, 2021)

What Nation do you think Biden will invade first?  my bet is on Syria or one of its neighbors


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 20, 2021)

Dodain47 said:


> Finally this thread can get it´s well deserved rest!


Finally the site staff can get some rest from all the crackpot posts from those that support the right


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> Speaking of not-even-fringe conspiracy theories:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Deep State is spying on us

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> Wow Biden inauguration is empty and we are suppose to believe he is more popular than Obama lol


COVID


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Wow Biden inauguration is empty and we are suppose to believe he is more popular than Obama lol


COVID + Security Concerns probably led to the lack of people.

Regardless, I don't think Joe is nearly as popular as Obama (especially in Obamas* first term).


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Finally the site staff can get some rest from all the crackpot posts from those that support the right


Im going to make one every month just for you. My first thread will be what makes Trump so sexy.


----------



## The_Frank_88 (Jan 20, 2021)

Ah yes. It's over, go home.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Im going to make one every month just for you. My first thread will be what makes Trump so sexy.


Thats easy to answer its his orange skin and his crazy hair style


----------



## djpannda (Jan 20, 2021)

OMG, we made it … First and foremost. I would like to thank The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, with him all thing are possbile. YO Adrian, WE did it! BABY!!! 

I have left Blood and Tears on This Thread. I got 3 warning point (worth it). You might not hear much from me anymore.. You might be asking “when will be hear from you again. “  I’ll tell you this… “whenever there is a NAZI running their mouth, Whenever People say theres an EVIL CABAL… Whenever a Person stated that Women and Minorities are not on the same level,  I WILL BE THERE!!!…………………………or just when there a good gaming topic. “
Thank you
*GOD BLESS AMERICA!!*.. oh yea.. and the rest of the world


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> Thats easy to answer its his orange skin and his crazy hair style


Orange You Mad He's Leaving?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> OMG, we made it … First and foremost. I would like to thank The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, with him all thing are possbile. YO Adrian, WE did it! BABY!!!
> 
> I have left Blood and Tear on This Thread. I got 3 warning point (worth it). You might not hear much from me anymore.. You might be asking “when will be hear from you again. “  I’ll tell you this… “whenever there is a NAZI running their mouth, Whenever People say theres an EVIL CABAL… Whenever a Person stated that Women and Minorities are not on the same level,  I WILL BE THERE!!!…………………………or just when there a good gaming topic. “
> Thank you
> *GOD BLESS AMERICA!!*.. oh yea.. and the rest of the world


I will summon you right now. 

Women are not at the same level as Men in physical strength on average.


----------



## Big Man Tyrone2 (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> What Nation do you think Biden will invade first?  my bet is on Syria or one of its neighbors


I don't think that Biden will invade another country (I hope, at least). Drone strikes will, unfortunately continue. 


_Because that's the American way._


----------



## Windowlicker (Jan 20, 2021)

Nothing is over before we see tangible change. Don't hold your breath.


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

djpannda said:


> OMG, we made it … First and foremost. I would like to thank The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, with him all thing are possbile. YO Adrian, WE did it! BABY!!!
> 
> I have left Blood and Tears on This Thread. I got 3 warning point (worth it). You might not hear much from me anymore.. You might be asking “when will be hear from you again. “  I’ll tell you this… “whenever there is a NAZI running their mouth, Whenever People say theres an EVIL CABAL… Whenever a Person stated that Women and Minorities are not on the same level,  I WILL BE THERE!!!…………………………or just when there a good gaming topic. “
> Thank you
> *GOD BLESS AMERICA!!*.. oh yea.. and the rest of the world


Now I expect I long post from you to counter my post.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Now I expect I long post from you to counter my post.


.. I can Image you just dance at home....


----------



## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

It ain't over until Lady Gaga sings the national anthem...

Poor Trump


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

djpannda said:


> .. I can Image you just dance at home....


Im celebrating right now. Once my feet move it cannot stop.


----------



## LumInvader (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> The Deep State is spying on us


Thank you SG854 for *unwittingly* proving my point.

Just like the conservatives in the polls I posted, he also doesn't understand the difference between a conspiracy theory (Deep State) and reality.


----------



## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

LumInvader said:


> Thank you SG854 for *unwittingly* proving my point.
> 
> Just like the conservatives in the polls I posted, he also doesn't understand the difference between a conspiracy theory (Deep State) and reality.


The 9th district courts ruled that the deep state was doing illegal spying. Deep state as in NSA. Its real. Edward Snowden. Proved that.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

Congratulations President Joe Biden & Vice President Kamala Harris!

I love that walk of shame from the outgoing president! What a Loser! Good riddance!

Just had to google this.... Lol


----------



## Lacius (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> The 9th district courts ruled that the deep state was doing illegal spying. Deep state as in NSA. Its real. Edward Snowden. Proved that.


Deep state is an unsubstantiated and debunked conspiracy theory. We can talk about NSA spying all you want, but that's not all the deep state purports to be.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Biden and Harris are sworn in, y'all. Good game.


----------



## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

See y'all on the next thread.... Can't wait... Lol.


----------



## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> A lot of people do not buy the official 9/11 story.



A lot of people are dumb.



Valwinz said:


> Wow Biden inauguration is empty and we are suppose to believe he is more popular than Obama lol



I bet the online figures are higher than Trumps though ;-)

official stream on youtube alone "1,579,112 watching now"


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## Arecaidian Fox (Jan 20, 2021)

Welp, Biden and Harris are sworn in. I'd say it's been fun but... Yikes, the last 5 years lol


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## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Deep state is an unsubstantiated and debunked conspiracy theory. We can talk about NSA spying all you want, but that's not all the deep state purports to be.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States
> 
> ...


Thats what I call the deep state


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## Valwinz (Jan 20, 2021)

smf said:


> A lot of people are dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol the guy can not get 1k on his stream what do you think lol


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## SG854 (Jan 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Deep state is an unsubstantiated and debunked conspiracy theory. We can talk about NSA spying all you want, but that's not all the deep state purports to be.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States
> 
> ...


The people that wanted Martin Luther King to kill himself. And same people that topple governments around the world thats the deep state.


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## Chary (Jan 20, 2021)

The end of an era. 

What an era it was. Last four years feel like they've been a nonstop rollercoaster that's halfway off the tracks.


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

Look at this loser....what a piece of 

Full list of Trump's last-minute pardons and commuted sentences

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...st-minute-pardons-commuted-sentences-n1254806

Transition Roundup: Trump Attempts Last-Minute Regulation Changes; Biden Appointee Confirmation Hearings Begin

https://www.govexec.com/management/...appointee-confirmation-hearings-begin/171470/

Trump administration trying to sabotage Biden immigration plans with last-minute deals, say officials

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...-immigration-plans-last-minute-deals-n1254733


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## Doran754 (Jan 20, 2021)

Commuting sentences like every president before him, what a loser.


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## Valwinz (Jan 20, 2021)

saw a image of the inauguration  is so sad as his rallies nobody went lol


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

shamzie said:


> Commuting sentences like every president before him, what a loser.


Why don't you read those names on there instead of commenting blindly.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> saw a image of the inauguration  is so sad as his rallies nobody went lol


Ha ha ha... Your sad because you just don't get it.... It's called COVID-19...


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## elm (Jan 20, 2021)

YAY!  The ORANGE man is GONE


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## Doran754 (Jan 20, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Why don't you read those names on there instead of commenting blindly.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg

stfu.


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

shamzie said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg
> 
> stfu.



Bill Clinton... Really... You think I agree with him or his policies just because he was democrat? You have lots to learn my republican friend.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

President Joe Biden is so inspiring right now!


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## djpannda (Jan 20, 2021)

Closed this Mother... Trumps done.


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## djpannda (Jan 20, 2021)

Here is the 46th President of THE United States OF AMERICA..
SUCK IT!!!


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## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> lol the guy can not get 1k on his stream what do you think lol



Biden official youtube is up to 1,760,721

It'll be interesting what the TV networks estimate.


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

smf said:


> Biden official youtube is up to 1,760,721


What about his Twitter? Cause some don't have an account anymore. Lol


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## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> What about his Twitter? Cause some don't have an account anymore. Lol



There are fewer watching on facebook and fewer than that watching on twitter. But who watches on facebook and twitter?
I don't have prime, so I don't know how many watching there.

A lot of people will be watching on TV.


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## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

ah, the pleasant fragrance of fascist tears
_breathes in
exhales_


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## Deleted member 397813 (Jan 20, 2021)

les gooo


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

*Here Are All The Funniest Memes About Trump Leaving The White House*

*https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemcneal/trump-leaves-white-house-memes*


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## LumInvader (Jan 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> The 9th district courts* ruled that the deep state was doing illegal spying*. Its real. Edward Snowden. Proved that.



Literally the first words on Deep State's Wikipedia page:

*"The deep state is a conspiracy theory."*

The 9th district court ruling didn't declare the existence of a deep state.  Evidence of an abuse of power isn't evidence of a hidden government.  It's not real just because a conspiracy peddler says it is.


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

Well, that was a very powerful speech. I feel like Biden is the leader America needs right now... That is, if he follows up on his rhetoric. Cheers to 4 years, possibly 8, of Biden and Harris 


Oh and also, I hear that copium prescriptions have skyrocketed by 500% in the past 30 minutes.


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

Cryoraptor said:


> Oh and also, I hear that copium prescriptions have skyrocketed by 500% in the past 30 minutes.


Those have some harsh side effects... Lol... 
The effects of copium include, but are not limited to: extreme rationalizations for the defeat, outlandish theories of conspiracy supposedly perpetrated by the opposing side, extreme rage directed at the other side, unconvincing allegations of fraud and abuse in the system, and rejection of the system as a whole.


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## Darth Meteos (Jan 20, 2021)

@Foxi4 currently with his mouse hovering over the Lock Thread button, saliva dripping openly from his mouth in desperate anticipation.


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## Plasmaster09 (Jan 20, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> @Foxi4 currently with his mouse hovering over the Lock Thread button, saliva dripping openly from his mouth in desperate anticipation.


Don't threaten him with a good time.


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## ghjfdtg (Jan 20, 2021)

Finally the suffering is over. Fuck Trump and everyone who supported all of his shady or outright illegal actions.


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

White_Raven_X said:


> Those have some harsh side effects... Lol...
> The effects of copium include, but are not limited to: extreme rationalizations for the defeat, outlandish theories of conspiracy supposedly perpetrated by the opposing side, extreme rage directed at the other side, unconvincing allegations of fraud and abuse in the system, and rejection of the system as a whole.


That sums it up. Sadly it's the only treatment for Biden Derangement Syndrome.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ghjfdtg said:


> Finally the suffering is over. Fuck Trump and everyone who supported all of his shady or outright illegal actions.


Yep. Fuck my younger self and all the anti-SJWs that supported him. I was so fucking brainwashed.


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## smf (Jan 20, 2021)

Windowlicker said:


> Nothing is over before we see tangible change. Don't hold your breath.



American politics is interesting for the first time in four years, obviously Biden is going to need to step up


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## Lacius (Jan 20, 2021)

Chary said:


> The end of an era.
> 
> What an era it was. Last four years feel like they've been a nonstop rollercoaster that's halfway off the tracks.


Uh, didn't you support Trump in 2016 and in 2020?


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## Darth Meteos (Jan 20, 2021)

Okay, it's over. In anticipation of the almighty L O C C, let's talk about the current administration here:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...ident-of-the-united-states-of-america.581277/

It's been real.


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## Cryoraptor (Jan 20, 2021)

Since this thread will be closing any minute now, I'll sum it up with this:

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. is, in fact, the President of the United States, and Trump has gone home to Florida to never be heard of again. Cope with that motherfuckers


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## Chary (Jan 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Uh, didn't you support Trump in 2016 and in 2020?


So? What does that matter? 

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t ridiculous the whole way through. 

And no, if you’re so inclined to care. I only voted Trump in 2016, back when politics seemed fun and exciting to someone fresh of age to be able to vote and take a far too hopeful stand against the boring old ways of “corrupt” government and swamps.


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## Lacius (Jan 20, 2021)

Chary said:


> So? What does that matter?
> 
> Doesn’t mean it wasn’t ridiculous the whole way through.
> 
> And no, if you’re so inclined to care. I only voted Trump in 2016, back when politics seemed fun and exciting to someone fresh of age to be able to vote and take a far too hopeful stand against the boring old ways of “corrupt” government and swamps.


It would mean you willfully voted for what you would describe as ridiculousness. My 2020 poll also suggests you voted for, or at least supported, Trump.


----------



## AmandaRose (Jan 20, 2021)

ghjfdtg said:


> Finally the suffering is over. Fuck Trump and everyone who supported all of his shady or outright illegal actions.


Sadly in Scotland we will still have to deal with his mother fucking shady and outright illegal shenanigans he pulls with his numerous businesses he has here.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Chary said:


> So? What does that matter?
> 
> Doesn’t mean it wasn’t ridiculous the whole way through.
> 
> And no, if you’re so inclined to care. I only voted Trump in 2016, back when politics seemed fun and exciting to someone fresh of age to be able to vote and take a far too hopeful stand against the boring old ways of “corrupt” government and swamps.


I guess it's not your fault that you were young and nieve to politics so we will let you off with your crazy decision to vote for Trump in 2016


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## White_Raven_X (Jan 20, 2021)

*singing*  we are the champions (Queen)


----------



## Chary (Jan 20, 2021)

AmandaRose said:


> guess it's not your fault that you were young and nieve to politics so we will let you off with your crazy decision to vote for Trump in 2016


This is why I tend to take such a lax laughable response to political threads on here now. A lot of us were or are kids voting for someone they think will suit their views, without digging deep into the finer details of politics. I’m glad we can laugh and be amicable about it after the fact lol.


----------



## 8BitWonder (Jan 20, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> saw a image of the inauguration  is so sad as his rallies nobody went lol


I called it to my friends that folks would be fast to say “no one went, lol”.
In case you weren’t aware the national mall was blocked off to the public after the MAGA insurrection.


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## Darth Meteos (Jan 20, 2021)

Chary said:


> And no, if you’re so inclined to care. I only voted Trump in 2016, back when politics seemed fun and exciting to someone fresh of age to be able to vote and take a far too hopeful stand against the boring old ways of “corrupt” government and swamps.


the guy opened his campaign by saying the mexican government was deliberately sending criminals over the border to attack americans

you don't get to just say you made an oopsie


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## djpannda (Jan 20, 2021)

I've paid my dues 
Time after time 
I've done my sentence 
But committed no crime…






--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

ok mods..this there where you closed the Thread


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