# Why are most gamers liberal?



## Deleted-401606 (Jul 23, 2019)

I've noticed that no matter the medium, most gamers seem to have left leaning beliefs and this applies whether it is twitch,twitter,gaming forums, or even just guilds in MMOs. Why does it seem that most gamers are liberals on the internet? It seems like no matter what gaming website you are on people become increasingly hostile towards you once they realize that you aren't a liberal. Why don't more conservatives play games? Is it because most conservatives think it's stupid and childish to play video games? Or is it maybe that younger people tend to gravitate towards liberalism and younger people also play more games? Even saying something as simple as MAGA can get someone to downright despise you.


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## yuyuyup (Jul 23, 2019)

Are you asking these questions in good faith, or are you just trying to "trigger the libturds"


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## Deleted User (Jul 23, 2019)

The word Liberal is thrown around a lot today. Are we talking modern liberalism and socialism? Or are we talking Classic Liberalism and Conservatism? 

If for arguments sake we are going to assume that they are modern liberal socialists, then my guess is on the fact that there is more games to be playing without having to go out and earn a wage or salary, which takes time away from games. Popular Youtubers will also want to make sure that they are being as inclusive as possible in order to ensure that they are not going to get struck down negatively.

It's also possible that many gamers dont pay attention to the news and simply hear all the "bad" things that come along with saying MAGA without actually doing the research.


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## Viri (Jul 23, 2019)

They do play games. But, I keep my politics to my self when playing games, because I'm there to play games, not debate people over x issue.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 23, 2019)

Jack54782 said:


> The word Liberal is thrown around a lot today. Are we talking modern liberalism and socialism? Or are we talking Classic Liberalism and Conservatism?
> 
> If for arguments sake we are going to assume that they are modern liberal socialists, then my guess is on the fact that there is more games to be playing without having to go out and earn a wage or salary, which takes time away from games. Popular Youtubers will also want to make sure that they are being as inclusive as possible in order to ensure that they are not going to get struck down negatively.
> 
> It's also possible that many gamers dont pay attention to the news and simply hear all the "bad" things that come along with saying MAGA without actually doing the research.



I just don't understand how in most gaming circles they are unanimously liberal, what is it about videogames that conservatives find an aversion to? I now wonder if it has always been like this and I just never realized it until I was older, but there is something about gaming that liberals find solace in and conservatives dislike. I am just trying to find out what that something is exactly.


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## DBlaze (Jul 23, 2019)

Because it's a very loud minority of people that want to shove politics into literally everything, even video games.


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## InsaneNutter (Jul 23, 2019)

With the exception of a few people I know outside the internet I couldn’t tell you what way 99% of the people I’ve played games with online vote. I really couldn't care either, I go vote and that is that, no one else needs to know my business.

Maybe its different when groups of Americans are playing together online, however I used to play online with two Americans quite a lot in the Xbox 360 days and politics never came in to it.

I’m there to play games, not discuss politics, religion, which is better out of Linux / Windows, or many other debates with no right or wrong answer.


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## notimp (Jul 23, 2019)

Liberal usually isnt the attribute associated with gamers..  In fact the liberals see them as conservative dudebrahs that like shooting, and have women issues, as indicated to them by Anita Sarkeesian (who counts female protagonists in videogames for a living - now thats liberal).

(Thats me trolling - not my actual opinion, if asked in court under oath.)

Why are people with a heightened technical interest (how do things work), amongst the first ones that used transnational platforms on the internet, and in the hacking scene - ones that believe in the benefit of free exchange of information, and free education, free software even - mostly liberals?

Ehm.. Because - its kind of what liberals are?

Companies entering the occasion and telling everyone they could make money by making all software proprietary and all of the internets working on them youtuber ad moneys - came afterwards. Thats not so liberal. (Arguably. Maybe. Arguably...  )

But: 'Our' (me maybe not included  ) communities, usually are also quite open to people of all kinds, and different ideas, and even people showing distress, or signs of being bullied, or simply not accepted societally. Because - we kind of also were the original misfits - that found peergroups of others on the internet.
(We didn't invent memes for political advertising though. That was a different subgroup.  )


This would be a retelling of the 'founding myth' of the scene.


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## Deleted User (Jul 23, 2019)

huh, seems like i'm in the minority then, since i'm fairly centrist with a slight right tilt

i just despise talking about politics


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## Skelletonike (Jul 23, 2019)

I myself, am a centrist leaning towards the right, I wouldn't say that it is the majority per se, but a loud chunk of the communities


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## Taleweaver (Jul 23, 2019)

Maluma said:


> I just don't understand how in most gaming circles they are unanimously liberal, what is it about videogames that conservatives find an aversion to? I now wonder if it has always been like this and I just never realized it until I was older, but there is something about gaming that liberals find solace in and conservatives dislike. I am just trying to find out what that something is exactly.


Erm...I hate to be THAT guy, but I had the same remarks as @Jack54782 , but your reply doesn't really answer that question (to me, at least).

By US standards, everyone's either lumped into the democrat/liberal box or in the republican/conservative box. By that standards...yes, I'm a liberal. But e.g. in my country, we've got a whole slew of political parties, ranging from borderline communism, socialism, environmentalism (if that's an "-ism"), a party promoting "values", liberals, a flemish independent party and a bunch of we're-not-racists-but-we-actually-are. By these standards (which I live by, really), I'm somewhat between a socialist an environmentalist. It's not that I'd be insulted to be called a liberal (okay...sometimes it is, but depending on the context), but the way the paradigm is usually applied here (which is really all that matters, as "a party that promotes freedom" is something nobody opposes), it means that companies and multinationals should get all the freedom they want. And if there remains some for the local populace, it's just a handy convenience.


Ahem...that said: it's true that most gamers are left leaning (to avoid the 'liberal' word  ). I as well originally thought this was just due to overlapping factors (if you've got a majority of youth both being into gaming and politically on the left side, there is likely a large part of the gamers on the left side, even if there is no real cause between the two). But I have come to believe that this is too simple of an explanation. And more so: I have come to believe that games themselves can shape a political outlook.

Let's take MAGA as an example. While the phrase itself is abstract enough that just about anyone can apply it (who DOESN'T want America being great? Nobody!), it is usually applied in relationship to foreign policy. Why import steel when you can get steel from your own country? Why have immigrants when we still have some unemployment? Neither are really xenophobic per se, but sets the priorities to the self.
...and that makes games - and especially video games - a rather hard thing to apply. Steel is steel, no matter where it comes from. But you can't say that "a video game is a video game", when only the xbone is from America while the PS4 and switch are Japanese, and the games themselves come from all over the world. These examples are, in a way, trump cards to liberalism. Meaning: it's pretty hard to be a conservative and claim that 'America should be made Great Again' while at the same time defining "Great" as almost inherently "originating in large parts from outside the border" (yeah...don't get me started on PC's or steam games).

Oh, and it might be a stab below the belt at conservatism, but video games are great teaching tools for empathy...which is something republicans almost chronically lack. It's one thing to hear about, say, racism, or even watch some documentaries on it. Try playing a game like "bury me, my love" and try to remain having the same rigid idea that all immigrants are worthless opportunists, let alone criminals. Games put you in the shoes of others, and that alone makes you consider how the world is from their view. Conservatists stick to dogmas and "trueisms" because they don't want to have their world view challenged but rather enforced.


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## Deleted User (Jul 23, 2019)

guess gamers are good people


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## smf (Jul 23, 2019)

Maluma said:


> It seems like no matter what gaming website you are on people become increasingly hostile towards you once they realize that you aren't a liberal.



I think they are just fed up with the pussy grabbing conservatives. You are free to pick a side, but picking the rapey one who are looking for an excuse to shoot people (especially people of colour) isn't going to make you popular with liberals.

Not everyone will like you, just make the choice that you feel comfortable with.

How are they "realising" you're not a liberal?


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## Xzi (Jul 23, 2019)

It's probably just as you theorize: right-wingers seem to have a need to be perceived as more masculine, so they seek hobbies which will perpetuate that image.  Hunting, fishing, NASCAR, (American) football, auto repair, etc.  It's largely illogical of course, I myself enjoy two of the five in that list, but most things colorful and creative tend to be viewed by the right as childish or feminine.  Gaming included.

We all know "MAGA" isn't a neutral slogan denoting that you're a conservative, though.  It's a slogan which denotes that you're part of a cult of personality centered around a singular, divisive political figure.  So it isn't surprising that it gets a lot of negative reactions.


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## notimp (Jul 23, 2019)

Also, because conservatives are morons, that always have to take illegitimate credit for stuff they didn't do, because they want other people to look at them (and their stories) and be impressed. 

Proof:


Again, thats trolling, but with a kernel of truth. 

See proof.

src: PBS: Chasing the Moon, Part 3


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 23, 2019)

Non-Theists tend to be left-leaning. I have not noticed it with regards to gamers. Then again, politics is not something I would bring up in a game.

Maybe conservatism is associated with censorship in games, but things are changing. I recently played through Scarface (a 13 years old game) and I could not imagine any developer today would dare to include a mission in which you have to kick transsexual "whores" (language within the game) in the nuts because they are ruining a brothel's business.


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## mezz0 (Jul 23, 2019)

You can't just assume most are left/right based on behaviour. Look at brexit, they were 100% SURE people would vote with their head on straight... guess they assumed wrong.

Until a study gets factual numbers, it's all speculation.


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## Deleted User (Jul 23, 2019)

I just remembered now about the uproar that Democrats such as Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman had about games such as GTA, and how that could have shaped people's images on this in the US.

Being from the UK however I have a lot of friends that are gamers and we all pretty much support the conservative party, mostly due to a rift caused by the Labour Parties fixation on cultism and socialism.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 23, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's probably just as you theorize: right-wingers seem to have a need to be perceived as more masculine, so they seek hobbies which will perpetuate that image.  Hunting, fishing, NASCAR, (American) football, auto repair, etc.  It's largely illogical of course, I myself enjoy two of the five in that list, but most things colorful and creative tend to be viewed by the right as childish or feminine.  Gaming included.
> 
> We all know "MAGA" isn't a neutral slogan denoting that you're a conservative, though.  It's a slogan which denotes that you're part of a cult of personality centered around a singular, divisive political figure.  So it isn't surprising that it gets a lot of negative reactions.



I appreciate this well written response and I feel like your response resonates well with me since according to your flag you are from America. Your explanation actually perfectly articulates why there might be a lack of conservatives playing games. I guess in a sense it would also explain why there isn't really an influx of gamers that display traditionally masculine characteristics.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 23, 2019)

To start with we probably have the endless definition and relative measuring fun and games (by way of example when the probably next UK prime minister who is about as right wing as mainstream big party UK politics ever really gets was leading the leave EU or not campaign he had a big banner saying we should use the money we send to fund healthcare, has generally voted for or been absent for votes on gay marriage and such like, has similarly been absent for abortion and when discussing the recent Northern Ireland stuff led with a "the people there should choose" approach, can't find any mention of gun control really... where would he land in the US republican party?). We will stick more to US approaches though.

To hear some in the gaming press and self styled academics tell it then gaming is overrun with right wing types. I tend not to find them having much worth listening to on that front though and don't especially see it.

As a general first pass then gaming is not a poor man's hobby per se but also not necessarily a rich one's. It is also largely a game for the young. I suspect it (or the self styled gamer side of things anyway) is also more popular in urban locations but I have not got hard data there. As US right wing/conservative movements tend not to appeal to any of those then that would pretty much mean you are assured of a more left wing/liberal slant. With that said I don't see too many games being a turn off for those with more right wing views -- gaming rarely makes an overt statement and most things that come close to that are more they happened to pick from a stock setting than care to have a deeper pondering of the things they are contemplating -- war may be hell but it is bloody sweet to shoot someone from across the map and account for the bullet drop, wind and movement to do it.

At the same time it has yet to reach a beloved status as far as mainstream politicians are concerned so those that are politically active (a somewhat small number) find themselves somewhat detached from politics, and with the constant thread of censorship until quite recently (and even then one Mr Trump was spouting bollocks about games following the then latest in the continuing failure of US peeps to distinguish a school from a firing range) that has left them somewhat standoffish or dubious.

I would like to also believe that gamers have something of the 90s hacker mindset about them ( https://joshhighland.com/2007/08/28/mentors-last-words-the-hacker-manifesto/ ), or at least that is what informs the "what the fuck are you chatting about?" response to said press and academics when they suddenly declare that all games must feature every demographic under the sun, that playing as a dude (especially a white one) is bad and that women should cover up their pixels or something.

This may change somewhat with the US right, and many a right wing movement, casting off their traditional role as the censor and the left attempting to pick it up, along with whatever nonsense that a lot of left wing politics in many places seems to be infected with. Certainly seems to be making various hacker types I follow contemplate doing whatever will not get censorship and attendant nonsense going on.


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## AmandaRose (Jul 23, 2019)

Jack54782 said:


> .
> 
> Being from the UK however I have a lot of friends that are gamers and we all pretty much support the conservative party, mostly due to a rift caused by the Labour Parties fixation on cultism and socialism.


That really only applies to England and Wales though as the Conservative party are hated by everyone here in Scotland and only the SNP and Labour get votes.


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## Lacius (Jul 23, 2019)

It's not that most gamers are on the left side of the political spectrum. It's that most people are left to center-left.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 23, 2019)

AmandaRose said:


> That really only applies to England and Wales though as the Conservative party are hated by everyone here in Scotland and only the SNP and Labour get votes.


Looking at the stats then they are about on par with labour on votes, and hold several more seats than them at present. Historically they had not done so well and some might have written off the last result as a protest against the SNP for hosing things up hard (that or that video...) but to dismiss them in such a fashion seems odd.


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## AmandaRose (Jul 23, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Looking at the stats then they are about on par with labour on votes, and hold several more seats than them at present. Historically they had not done so well and some might have written off the last result as a protest against the SNP for hosing things up hard (that or that video...) but to dismiss them in such a fashion seems odd.


Because it was a one off protest vote against the SNP. The tory Party now have zero chance here as Boris is despised in Scotland even more than Trump is.

Edit this is just the beginning of events against BoJo in Scotland 
https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/17789833.hundreds-protest-glasgow-boris-johnson-s-appointment/


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## Deleted User (Jul 23, 2019)

smf said:


> I think they are just fed up with the pussy grabbing conservatives. You are free to pick a side, but picking the rapey one who are looking for an excuse to shoot people (especially people of colour) isn't going to make you popular with liberals.
> 
> Not everyone will like you, just make the choice that you feel comfortable with.
> 
> How are they "realising" you're not a liberal?



Hmm. I'm sorry but this is why we can't get along. Your generalizing _every last conservative _as rapists and mass-murderers.
The reason why conservatives want guns is because we want to defend ourselves from people who would want to harm us. If I was in Parkland when that demon went in to kill people, and I had a gun, I would damn sure shoot that guy in the face, and then I'd go out and kick that security guard in the head. I'm sorry, that's horrible thing to say but that made me mad.
You say we are all racist? Why? I believe that all men(and women!) were created equal by God. Black people, white people, asian people, mexicans. What's different, other than our skin color?
I don't agree with you. So what? I care about you as a human being. I respect your life.
I don't believe in what the media says.
This is why.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cnn+donald+trumps+crowd+size&t=ffnt&ia=web

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/01/politics/trump-inauguration-gigapixel/

Let's just be friends already.


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## Joe88 (Jul 24, 2019)

I think its the exact opposite imo, it seems alot of devs are liberal or at least seems that way because they are the most vocal ones, get covered by liberal "gaming" news sites like kotaku and polygon.
Gamers themselves however don't really share those views, at least the vast majority of them, they dont want politics shoved down their throats especially when they just want to play an enjoy games, they don't give af about the diversity of the game, how many characters are minorities, if the devs are people of color, ect.

A good example of this was when the dev of Firewatch attacked pewdiepie, sent copyright claims against all his videos which were there a year already, his game was promptly review bombed on steam. https://www.pcgamer.com/firewatch-is-getting-review-bombed-on-steam/

BF5 flop, the sjw devs just woudnt stop, they made a main character a female with one arm, a series which used to pride its self on historical accuracy decided to provide an alternative version of history, of course the far left gaming journalism sites all loved this and covered it to no end about diversity, but preorders and actual sales told a different story, it seems the people who would actually buy and play the game took the devs words to heart:
"*Accept It or Don’t Buy the Game*" -EA
They even decided to try and troll people with quotes at their launch event








Doom Enteral seemed to be going in the opposite direction and attacking sjw's https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/...-calling-it-gross-and-anti-immigration/66299/


Just keep politics out of games, it doesnt belong, your main audience doesnt want it, it's just grandstanding and virtue signaling.


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## blawar (Jul 24, 2019)

Most gamers are liberal because most gamers are young.  Young people generally start out liberal and become more conservative as they age.  Young people generally have this unrealistic rosey view of how the world *should* be, only to get slowly dosed with reality as  they age.


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## x65943 (Jul 24, 2019)

Joe88 said:


> I think its the exact opposite imo, it seems alot of devs are liberal or at least seems that way because they are the most vocal ones, get covered by liberal "gaming" news sites like kotaku and polygon.
> Gamers themselves however don't really share those views, at least the vast majority of them, they dont want politics shoved down their throats especially when they just want to play an enjoy games, they don't give af about the diversity of the game, how many characters are minorities, if the devs are people of color, ect.
> 
> A good example of this was when the dev of Firewatch attacked pewdiepie, sent copyright claims against all his videos which were there a year already, his game was promptly review bombed on steam. https://www.pcgamer.com/firewatch-is-getting-review-bombed-on-steam/
> ...


Agree completely

Almost every single gamer I know is conservative or heavily conservative

I am talking about PC gamers, the build your own PC type - not the LoL type or people playing fortnite on their laptops


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## Captain_N (Jul 24, 2019)

I only talk politics and video games when i play Political Kombat 12


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## Xzi (Jul 24, 2019)

Joe88 said:


> Just keep politics out of games, it doesnt belong


Your post suggests that simply including characters who are people of color is "putting politics into games."  There's nothing wrong with developers presenting a realistic representation of society, it can't be helped if conservatives are triggered by the very existence of different ethnicities or sexual orientations.

For that matter, there's really nothing wrong with tackling controversial subjects in games either, political or otherwise.  They might not be the types of games you want to play, but that doesn't mean there's no audience for them.  'This War of Mine' and 'Papers, Please' being a couple prominent examples which received glowing reviews.

Yes, EA handled the whole Battlefield 5 fiasco terribly, but EA handles everything terribly.  Just par for the course where they're concerned.


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## slaphappygamer (Jul 24, 2019)

Does it really even matter? It shouldn't.


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## ChaosEternal (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Your post suggests that simply including characters who are people of color is "putting politics into games."  There's nothing wrong with developers presenting a realistic representation of society, it can't be helped if conservatives are triggered by the very existence of different ethnicities or sexual orientations.
> 
> Yes, EA handled the whole Battlefield 5 fiasco terribly, but EA handles everything terribly.  Just par for the course where they're concerned.


Representation is a serious political and cultural issue, hence taking a position on it is an inherently political action. Even if a developer wasn't trying to take a position on the issue, it might still be viewed that way due to incorrectly assumed motives. If I made a simulation game and had black characters get arrested for committing crimes more often than other characters, people might assume I'm racist and trying to push an agenda even if I were genuinely trying to model reality.


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## Xzi (Jul 24, 2019)

ChaosEternal said:


> Representation is a serious political and cultural issue, hence taking a position on it is an inherently political action. Even if a developer wasn't trying to take a position on the issue, it might still be viewed that way due to incorrectly assumed motives. If I made a simulation game and had black characters get arrested for committing crimes more often than other characters, people might assume I'm racist and trying to push an agenda even if I were genuinely trying to model reality.


If it's portrayed as satire or a commentary on society, I don't see any issue with that.  GTA V already does something similar with how police treat you as Franklin vs how they treat you when you're playing one of the other two characters.


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## bodefuceta (Jul 24, 2019)

Gamers tend to be young and so do leftists. But as the people who grew accostumed to electronics get older, this changes. I think gamers are in general much more right-wing today than 10 years ago and that's a great thing for the industry in general, even if some companies like ubisoft continue to act as SJW echo-chambers, they'll just gradually make less money while companies who act more neutral like most japanese will benefit. Also liberals have somehow become censorship apologists with stuff like girls in revealing clothes and I hope this stuff ends.


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## Xzi (Jul 24, 2019)

The narrative that people become more conservative as they grow older is largely nonsense, it's all on an individual basis.  With the US in particular, a majority of registered voters have been Democrats for decades now, and no Republican president has won the popular vote since Reagan.  Most of the country sits left of center, our democracy has simply become less and less representative over time.  Unless you count representation of corporate interests, that is.


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## Lacius (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The narrative that people become more conservative as they grow older is largely nonsense, it's all on an individual basis.  With the US in particular, a majority of registered voters have been Democrats for decades now, and no Republican president has won the popular vote since Reagan.  Most of the country sits left of center, our democracy has simply become less and less representative over time.  Unless you count representation of corporate interests, that is.


George W. Bush won the popular vote the second time, but no non-incumbent Republican has won since George H.W. Bush.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Agree completely
> 
> Almost every single gamer I know is conservative or heavily conservative
> 
> I am talking about PC gamers, the build your own PC type - not the LoL type or people playing fortnite on their laptops



What games do you usually play and under what age brackets? I noticed on Twitch almost EVERYONE is liberal.


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## Pipistrele (Jul 24, 2019)

"most gamers liberal"

Come on, dude - we're talking about community where throwing around derogatory slurs is still kind of the norm, criticism on ethical side of things is met with massive outrages and sometimes actual harassment (the whole Anita story for example), and "keeping women out of muh games" is the utmost priority for a surprising amount of people. What exactly makes you think most gamers are liberal?


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Your post suggests that simply including characters who are people of color is "putting politics into games."  There's nothing wrong with developers presenting a realistic representation of society, it can't be helped if conservatives are triggered by the very existence of different ethnicities or sexual orientations.
> 
> For that matter, there's really nothing wrong with tackling controversial subjects in games either, political or otherwise.  They might not be the types of games you want to play, but that doesn't mean there's no audience for them.  'This War of Mine' and 'Papers, Please' being a couple prominent examples which received glowing reviews.
> 
> Yes, EA handled the whole Battlefield 5 fiasco terribly, but EA handles everything terribly.  Just par for the course where they're concerned.



Blacks are way over represented in the media. Look at how many doctors there are IRL of East Asian/Indian descent yet on TV shows doctors are always black and white. There are also more black protagonist in movies than there are Latino protagonist even though Latinos make a much larger percentage of the American population.


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## smf (Jul 24, 2019)

MicmasH_Wii said:


> Hmm. I'm sorry but this is why we can't get along. Your generalizing _every last conservative _as rapists and mass-murderers.



Not all, some I assume are good people. Your leader is very rapey though and the majority chose him, or at least that is the claim he makes. You'll let him do ANYTHING as long as he lets you keep your guns and blames immigrants, even though you are all immigrants.



MicmasH_Wii said:


> The reason why conservatives want guns is because we want to defend ourselves from people who would want to harm us.



You seem to want to be the good guy with the gun shooting the bad guy with the gun, the difference is you don't mind waiting for the chance to shoot someone. If nobody had guns then you wouldn't need them.

Guns are a very poor tool for decreasing possible harm. The crazies who want to be able to bear arms against the government, when the government can order a drone strike and take anyone out they want shows just how out of touch with reality the pro gun lobby are.

But sure, we can be friends, just don't make justifying your politics your main focus. I suspect that is why people are hostile to you.


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## Loyalty (Jul 24, 2019)

smf said:


> Not all, some I assume are good people. Your leader is very rapey though and the majority chose him, or at least that is the claim he makes. You'll let him do ANYTHING as long as he lets you keep your guns and blames immigrants, even though you are all immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What? Good grief you are all over the place and yet still manage to get nowhere near the truth (except that Trump is a man dog in heat like Clinton was, with his enabler wife Hillary). The majority didn't choose him, but he won fair and square as the constitution provided (electorial college). 

Guns... you do know a lot of liberals want to keep their guns too. That is why the 2nd will never be removed as the constitution provides (change the bill of rights via Congress). BTW... Guns rights were not for "hunting"... that was a given, everyone hunted back then... Guns were to overthrow a runaway government, to protect oneself from a government that over steps it bounds... Just like the Battle of Athens in 1946 Tennessee.... 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

If gun owner couldn't wait to shoot others then you probable wouldn't be here. There is about one gun per person living in the US... What a silly thing to say. Legal gun owners are some of the best people in America with lower crime rates than not only the general public, but police officers. 


Then when one thinks you can't get any more irrelevant, you throw out that guns are useless and cite drones as an example... Well Afghanistan proved you could survive against drones and I imagine that most of those folks would be smart enough to not stay in one place to be bombed (have you priced those drones, there is not 150 million drones with all the tea in China to pay for them). The US is huge, there are states bigger than the whole UK. Yeah, there is no way drones (even if you could get the military which leans conservative to attach it's own people)... Most the military have conservative roots... heck most are from Texas and Alabama...


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's probably just as you theorize: right-wingers seem to have a need to be perceived as more masculine, so they seek hobbies which will perpetuate that image.  Hunting, fishing, NASCAR, (American) football, auto repair, etc.  It's largely illogical of course, I myself enjoy two of the five in that list, but most things colorful and creative tend to be viewed by the right as childish or feminine.  Gaming included.
> 
> We all know "MAGA" isn't a neutral slogan denoting that you're a conservative, though.  It's a slogan which denotes that you're part of a cult of personality centered around a singular, divisive political figure.  So it isn't surprising that it gets a lot of negative reactions.



This is somewhat on point...for fundamentalist Christians only in my experience. Think the ones that support Tim Tebow because he had John 3:16 on his shades that American football players put on their cheeks (I forget what they're called, there's a term for it) or putting their support behind whatever is considered as part of their in-group. But it's not just any Christian, especially if it's a Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, or one of those country clubs known as community churches. It has to be a born again, Old King James Bible-believing, Jack Hyles-loving (this is the especially fucked up part as my father did go to this piece of shit's college that he described as being old-fashioned and shoddy. Hyles' son-in-law was actually the guy in the video I'll be linking at the end of this post who got caught taking a minor across statelines for sex), John R. Rice-loving, Duggar-loving, homeschooled, abortion-hating, gay marriage-hating (even if they aren't open or blunt about it, they'll make negative comments about it when the cameras are off and there's no chance of their comments being made public), traditional gender roles supporting individual, male preferred, but not necessary.

The only way I even know about all of this is that yours truly's Aspergian ass had the pleasure of growing up in the Old Independent Fundamental Baptist conglomeration of churches. Emphasis on the Old as I was spared the insanity of Steven Anderson as he wasn't around when I was growing up and, thankfully, my parents had enough common sense to know what is plainly clear as bullshit. They were very supportive of yours truly's Asperger's growing up and able to help me get to a point where, to be frank, it's honestly only a diagnosis to me at this point. Still, I had the honor of having to deal with a certain school teacher not being supportive, something that went so well that I was eventually kicked out of the private school and sent to the "den of immorality" that was public school where, in an _ironic_ twist of events, I got the help and support needed and am now a functioning adult with a job who's working on moving out so he doesn't ever have to be associated with whatever OIFB has the potential of morphing into if one of my older brother's and his lack of vaccinating his kids is any indication of where the movement is headed along with the New IFB it spawned!


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## duwen (Jul 24, 2019)

I think you are wrongly applying a political leaning where there is no reason to do so.
Gamers are more likely to embrace escapism - don't confuse that with a liberal political stance.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> This is somewhat on point...for fundamentalist Christians only in my experience. Think the ones that support Tim Tebow because he had John 3:16 on his shades that American football players put on their cheeks (I forget what they're called, there's a term for it) or putting their support behind whatever is considered as part of their in-group. But it's not just any Christian, especially if it's a Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, or one of those country clubs known as community churches. It has to be a born again, Old King James Bible-believing, Jack Hyles-loving (this is the especially fucked up part as my father did go to this piece of shit's college that he described as being old-fashioned and shoddy. Hyles' son-in-law was actually the guy in the video I'll be linking at the end of this post who got caught taking a minor across statelines for sex), John R. Rice-loving, Duggar-loving, homeschooled, abortion-hating, gay marriage-hating (even if they aren't open or blunt about it, they'll make negative comments about it when the cameras are off and there's no chance of their comments being made public), traditional gender roles supporting individual, male preferred, but not necessary.
> 
> The only way I even know about all of this is that yours truly's Aspergian ass had the pleasure of growing up in the Old Independent Fundamental Baptist conglomeration of churches. Emphasis on the Old as I was spared the insanity of Steven Anderson as he wasn't around when I was growing up and, thankfully, my parents had enough common sense to know what is plainly clear as bullshit. They were very supportive of yours truly's Asperger's growing up and able to help me get to a point where, to be frank, it's honestly only a diagnosis to me at this point. Still, I had the honor of having to deal with a certain school teacher not being supportive, something that went so well that I was eventually kicked out of the private school and sent to the "den of immorality" that was public school where, in an _ironic_ twist of events, I got the help and support needed and am now a functioning adult with a job who's working on moving out so he doesn't ever have to be associated with whatever OIFB has the potential of morphing into if one of my older brother's and his lack of vaccinating his kids is any indication of where the movement is headed along with the New IFB it spawned!



What is OIFB and IFB. Dude this thread is about gamers being liberal, I have no idea what you are even talking about.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> What is OIFB and IFB. Dude this thread is about gamers being liberal, I have no idea what you are even talking about.



I was responding to Xzi's point about conservatives preferring to do more sporty activities that are generally considered by society to be more masculine.

Here's an introduction to what kind of church the NIFB is, which is the more relevant of the two denominations online:



I think, if you watch my video, you'll get my point.

The NIFB, btw, is the church essentially run by Steven Anderson, the guy who prayed for Obama to get assassinated and who said the cure for AIDs was the death penalty.

If that still doesn't ring a bell, well... (here's to hoping I don't get in trouble for posting this)


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> I was responding to Xzi's point about conservatives preferring to do more sporty activities that are generally considered by society to be more masculine.
> 
> Here's an introduction to what kind of church the NIFB is, which is the more relevant of the two denominations online:
> 
> ...




So you linked NIFB, but what is OIFB and IFB? I will watch the videos in a bit.


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## Taleweaver (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> So you linked NIFB, but what is OIFB and IFB? I will watch the videos in a bit.


Old Independent Fundamental Baptist and...New Independent Fundamental Baptist, I presume?


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## Taleweaver (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's probably just as you theorize: right-wingers seem to have a need to be perceived as more masculine, so they seek hobbies which will perpetuate that image.  Hunting, fishing, NASCAR, (American) football, auto repair, etc.  It's largely illogical of course, I myself enjoy two of the five in that list, but most things colorful and creative tend to be viewed by the right as childish or feminine.  Gaming included.


Okay...but then what makes that games about hunting, fishing, football, nascar and so on?

In the past, I've labeled such games as "bro games". Games played by people who measure their self worth in their physical ability, even if said physical ability is at least partially virtual (I have no idea if they play these games to compliment their hobbies/lifestyle or to replace them).





Joe88 said:


> I think its the exact opposite imo, it seems alot of devs are liberal or at least seems that way because they are the most vocal ones, get covered by liberal "gaming" news sites like kotaku and polygon.
> Gamers themselves however don't really share those views, at least the vast majority of them, they dont want politics shoved down their throats especially when they just want to play an enjoy games, they don't give af about the diversity of the game, how many characters are minorities, if the devs are people of color, ect.
> 
> A good example of this was when the dev of Firewatch attacked pewdiepie, sent copyright claims against all his videos which were there a year already, his game was promptly review bombed on steam. https://www.pcgamer.com/firewatch-is-getting-review-bombed-on-steam/
> ...


This is an interesting viewpoint. I don't agree with it (IMHO, politics is a part of life. Just as you cannot have characters without ANY skin color, you cannot NOT have a politically motivated narrative if you want a game having a narrative), but there is certainly something to be said here.

What you describe doesn't appear to be anti-political, but rather a countermovement to the (admitted) pretty liberal political agenda of developers. If people truly wouldn't give a fuck about politics, there wouldn't be trolls or review bombs. And while these could still be made by a vocal minority, the latter example says it best: the sales figures suffer because of it.

Can't say much about doom eternal, but to me that link just points to a few people without humor ("calling a demon is mortally challenged is not funny". yeah...excuse me while I go laugh my ass off to prove my disagreement  ).


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> So you linked NIFB, but what is OIFB and IFB? I will watch the videos in a bit.



The IFB is just a quick reference for both the Old and the New IFB. The main difference between the two conglomerations of churches is that the Old IFB relied upon colleges to train pastors to go start churches that were independent of any organizations like the Southern Baptist Convention from overseeing their activities. These colleges are stuff like Pensacola Christian College, Bob Jones University, Hyles-Anderson (the one my father went to back in the 70's), with all of the rules in regards to dating and everything in between. What both denominations share is their clinging to what they consider to be the fundamentals of Baptistic faith, and then some. You see, not only do they believe in the Bible and take it pretty much literally outside of the last book and some parts of other books (mainly stuff that are metaphors and/or symbols for prophecy they and Christians of other conglomerations and denominations consider to be true to some extent), but they consider the words of their preacher to be words from God himself. If a pastor hates Metallica and/or rock music in general, you hate Metallica and rock music lest you be considered a rebel in "God's" eyes. If he hates dancing, you are to hate dancing. If he says that women wearing skirts slightly above the knees and/or pants is going to send her to Hell, you aren't going to date a girl like that or consider her a "godly" woman.

Think of it this way: Trump says he's gonna make America Great Again. If you were to look at that statement by itself, it's a good statement from many perspectives. It's short, memorable, and a concise message that is befitting of Trump's background in business. But if you're like me and grew up in this culture of "anything past the 50's is when America started to degrade morally with rock music, drugs, alcohol, bad language, men having the hair of women and women having the hair of men, and of things not being as how God commanded them in the Old Testament to the Jews because we consider the OT to inform the NT even though there's a lot of weirdness that makes it hard to communicate to those who didn't grow up in this weird, conservative culture," you'd know that basically anything past Andy Griffith and Leave it To Beaver was when morality on reality TV dropped to the ground. Shows like Seinfeld, Friends, Married with Children, basically anything that didn't exude "the good 'ole days of clean, moral, decent, "family-friendly"" entertainment was considered to be a risk for young people. Not to mention, people associating it with America's golden age of economic expansion and jobs being plentiful.

While my upbringing wasn't as extreme as others in these churches, it still had the hallmarks of a lot of religious kid problems growing up: no Harry Potter because witchcraft even though Star Wars was A-OK, Mortal Kombat had to be blocked out on screen when the fatalities came up even though yours truly was crafty enough to sneak in a Supreme Demonstration followed by 1-button Fatalities for Mortal Kombat Trilogy, and you always had to be wary of "the world," a catch all term referring to things basically not approved of by your church authorities and/or your parents backed by their understandings of the Bible.

Steven Anderson and others under his NIFB umbrella like Roger Jimenez characterize what I'd consider to be the Old IFB at its worst. Belief in conspiracy theories in regards to vaccines causing autism and other diseases, Holocaust denial in Anderson's case, having a lot of kids in a very Quiverfull-esque (essentially the Duggars' lifestyle, and though he doesn't have as many kids as they do right now, he sure seems to be on his way to trying to top them) method. Roger Jimenez was famous for saying that he wished more were killed in the Pulse Nightclub shooting because of the IFB's (yes, both conglomerations of churches believe this) belief that homosexuals are pedophiles. Their logic with this is that they think that if an individual will sleep with someone of the same sex, they will sleep with anything.

In regards to the churches being "independent" - these churches survive by forming friendships with other pastors/churches/organizations that share similar, if not identical, views on raising children, how to do X thing here, attitudes towards Reformers Unanimous, etc.. But they don't have anyone overlooking their activities other than the churches themselves, which extends to the schools they run to help provide children with a learning environment that "puts Christ at the center of everything." While I never went through the whole thing either in the regular school or thankfully any of the aforementioned colleges of which there are more of, but those are essentially the big three other than Liberty University. From what I've read about online and seen of study materials that my older brothers left laying around the house I live in, though, it paints a very..."sheltered" picture is how I'd describe it. One-sided teachings about evolution, anything that's anti-Republican Party or just whatever they consider true conservatism is painted in a negative light, women are taught that they are meant for the home and not meant for a career even though, in this day and age, it's becoming more difficult to even do that (case-in-point being my mom who's one of the hardest working women I know who helped provide for the family in all of this. Like I said earlier, my parents weren't _as_ extreme as others in these churches), it's their fault for dressing immodestly if a man assaults them in several cases I've read online in regards to incidents that happened on IFB-friendly campuses, with the punishments for the party considered guilty being nothing short of cultish to make them conform to the image that the church considers a proper man/woman, etc..

I could go on and on, but this has become a blog post about something that, once I move out of my parents' house, I never want to think about or look back at ever again. It bugs me a lot that I don't feel comfortable going to my parents about this stuff because I fear how they might react. I've read horror stories on Reddit about kids kicked out of their house for coming out as atheist or simply as someone who just doesn't give a rat's ass like I do about any of this. At the end of the day, all I want to do is kick back and relax at my PC right here, play a game, listen to music, watch movies or videos, and that's about it. It's about all I have time to do on my free time when I'm not working my ass off to pay some bills that I'm regretting now that I have a clear vision of where I want to be in the next 5 years!


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## burial (Jul 24, 2019)

Art (and reality in general) has a "liberal" bias....

And yes video games are an art form.

Also, you do realize that most conservatives dont like that maga crap too, right?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 24, 2019)

blawar said:


> Most gamers are liberal because most gamers are young.  Young people generally start out liberal and become more conservative as they age.  Young people generally have this unrealistic rosey view of how the world *should* be, only to get slowly dosed with reality as  they age.


That line of thought has never quite sat right with me. Some might pull back a bit as they start seeing more of it fly out of the door in taxes if it is a thing where you are at (the tax = theft lark is something of a US only trait -- you will get people doing things under the table and otherwise not declaring it everywhere, to say nothing of Greece's approach to the world, but still mostly a US sentiment) but more would probably be a shift in the Overton window as time goes on.




Joe88 said:


> I think its the exact opposite imo, it seems alot of devs are liberal or at least seems that way because they are the most vocal ones, get covered by liberal "gaming" news sites like kotaku and polygon.
> Gamers themselves however don't really share those views, at least the vast majority of them, they dont want politics shoved down their throats especially when they just want to play an enjoy games,* they don't give af about the diversity of the game, how many characters are minorities, if the devs are people of color, ect.
> *
> 
> Just keep politics out of games, it doesnt belong, your main audience doesnt want it, it's just grandstanding and virtue signaling.



Are those liberal traits or traits of a subset of liberals*, just ones with a megaphone of late?

*I find it hard to reconcile some things people in those circles claim with their purported goals -- some would claim if I have two applicants of otherwise equal standing but one is a black guy then I am supposed to hire the black guy... I was watching that US hearing on Facebook a while back and some guy there was taking all his time asking questions to getting the facebook dude to commit to hiring so many black people to the board. Or in the case of actual law in California ( https://www.npr.org/2018/10/01/6533...ire-women-on-corporate-boards?t=1563961409942 ) if I have a board then a given percentage must, by law, be women apparently -- is hiring, or indeed not hiring, because of their sex not inherently/textbook sexism?

As for politics in games I would say if games are really to be an artistic medium then there is plenty of scope to outwardly** explore philosophies, strains of politics, political systems (if you thought RPG players were fond of min maxing you have clearly not see people responsible for voting lines and strategy) and other such things.

**some have made the claim that politics are inherent in mechanics (something like Civilisation deeming bigger cities, industrialisation and so forth as worth more) which might well be true but replicating apparent physics or history is probably going to get a free pass, and there are endless fuzzy edges too.


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## Xzi (Jul 24, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Okay...but then what makes that games about hunting, fishing, football, nascar and so on?
> 
> In the past, I've labeled such games as "bro games". Games played by people who measure their self worth in their physical ability, even if said physical ability is at least partially virtual (I have no idea if they play these games to compliment their hobbies/lifestyle or to replace them).


Yeah, mostly they're just an attempt to bridge that gap between gaming and "manly" hobbies.  They provide an outlet for those with a competitive mindset, but they tend to be pretty poor quality from a purely gaming perspective, so I'd wager their biggest audience is college-age men.  AKA frat bros, like you said.  Guys with relatively limited gaming knowledge, who want to play games while still maintaining a certain image.


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## Clydefrosch (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> I just don't understand how in most gaming circles they are unanimously liberal, what is it about videogames that conservatives find an aversion to? I now wonder if it has always been like this and I just never realized it until I was older, but there is something about gaming that liberals find solace in and conservatives dislike. I am just trying to find out what that something is exactly.




conservatives have spend decades trying to cut, censor and sometimes outright outlaw video games.
if you're a 'professional' conservative, you likely aren't an outspoken gamer.

also, games mostly young people, so they're kinda more sane and leaning towards the type of idiologies that don't want to crap on outsiders all day, as they often view themselves as outsiders of some sort too. (even though almost everyone games these days)


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## FAST6191 (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Taleweaver said:
> 
> 
> > Okay...but then what makes that games about hunting, fishing, football, nascar and so on?
> ...



I would probably go with a slightly different approach. Games have now become so broad and easy to do that they have become a medium in and of themselves and no longer have to cater to the involved. Prior to the printing press, and even then until comparatively recently, having a book made was a pretty big deal. I can also use the printer that was so worthless it was given to me for nothing to print every picture in more detail than the unaided human eye will ever be able to resolve in the Louvre and wallpaper my house with said pictures if I were so inclined. At a meg a minute then 40 years = 2103840 minutes = 2103840 megs = 2054 gigs or about 2TB gets me more audio than I can listen to back to back for 40 years, and could just about do it portably. I could carry on here.
If nothing else it is probably about the best indicator we have that gaming has arrived and is here to stay.


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## yuyuyup (Jul 24, 2019)

Gee I wish the OP would answer the first question asked of him in this thread


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 24, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Okay...but then what makes that games about hunting, fishing, football, nascar and so on?
> 
> In the past, I've labeled such games as "bro games". Games played by people who measure their self worth in their physical ability, even if said physical ability is at least partially virtual (I have no idea if they play these games to compliment their hobbies/lifestyle or to replace them).
> 
> ...



I would say about the only enjoyment I get from sports games is creating an OP team in some NFL game that lets you create custom players and teams and laughing my ass off to my brothers' frustrations in trying to defeat yours truly using the team! XD

When it comes to the liberal agenda of producers, it's more about how they're trying to clearly paint a biased picture (see: Black Panther 1 with the hero being MLK and the villain being Malcolm X, but yet it features black people calling white people colonizers even though they're in a secret nation that had the fortune to avoid being conquered by the European slave dealers who sought the manpower of these individuals by holding them up at gunpoint and rounding them up and look where we are in the New Ten's...for some reason.) at the expense of other paying customers who not only aren't racist, but when you keep telling people that they're animals and they start acting like animals, well what do you expect? It's kind of like how some people are reacting to the genderfluid thing that's been a popular liberal talking point now for the past few years, at least. You can't refer to someone as he/she/sir/ma'am without the risk of something like the following occurring:



Take the situation with Extra Credits and that Nazi video that got them skinned alive and you have a similar situation.

Personally, I don't get it. So a girl who's tomboyish, for example, feels like a man, and now, she wants to identify as a man because...she's not comfortable with being a woman because she's doing things that are what  "society" tells her are "masculine" even though, if she's truly passionate about the hobby/job she's doing, she shouldn't give a shit?

Look at characters like Misato and Asuka in Neon Genesis Evangelion (for those watching the show on Netflix for the first time, for one thing, this anime has been out for 20+ years and you're now watching it? On a more important note, spoilers may abound in the next paragraph), they can act more "masculine" than Shinji at times, but they never feel any less of a woman than they did before they start getting loud and boisterous in Asuka's case, or Misato being all action girl in her having a leadership role and for a few brief moments in the show's climax. Does Shinji ever feel like he was meant to be a woman? Outside of some fan theories regarding a certain major spoiler, it always seemed like Shinji had a thing for women, as obvious in the show's...ahem...*clears throat* _climax_ (wonder if _that_ will be in the Netflix adaptation? Is EOE even a part of that? Like, is it on the list of episodes after the endings so incomplete that it makes Mass Effect 3's original endings look complete by comparison).

To me, it always seemed like people were making out the feelings in their mind to mean way more than they really did in these cases. I'm not very talkative myself in real life. I don't play a lot of sports, but that doesn't mean I don't mind doing some lifting here and there at my job or at home, or taking a leadership role here or there. You could interpret the lifting as masculine, but the thing is, I never looked at traits like that and attached all of these identities to them. Everyone has some form of leadership, lifting, and desire for some sort of action in them. Whether that action is something that will get you gainful and hopefully consistent employment in the workforce is an entirely different matter, but at the end of the day, being someone your that's low management-maintenance, friendly, easy to work with, hard working, going above and beyond all others, and so many other traits are just that-traits, that yes, certain parts of society may attach all of these identities, -isms, and other nonsense that unfortunately can play a part in how things work in the world, but at the end of the day, no one is saying that humility, diligence, carefulness, selflessness, etc. is bad. What is bad is expecting others to conform to an idea that they may not agree with, otherwise known as the thoughtcrime. It'd be like if I was sitting next to a girl while I'm playing my Nintendo Switch on a train and suddenly, for no reason, with no provocation of mine on any part, she's accusing yours truly of sexual harassment because I chose to sit next to a girl because of the crime of yours truly being a man and her paranoid belief that all men are Harvey Weinsteins. Like, why are we making these issues a big deal all of a sudden? It's almost like people are using labels to...discriminate against others. _Huh_. And now we're back to businesses being paranoid about men and women working together in the workplace because of a movement that may have had good intentions for some involved in it, but for others it's becoming a tornado of ugly things that don't need to be made public (imagine all of the outcry Harrison Ford's many marriages would cause in today's day and age had the divorces occurred now and not in the 70's/early 2000's?) becoming knowledge that everyone is talking about? Like, I predicted that there was more to the whole ProJared affair when his wife said one thing, Jared's girlfriend said another, Jared said this thing after those two had their catfight on Twitter, etc..

Point is, people need to learn who they are, find out what they want in life, and be happy with it. Cut out the things that aren't important, and move on. No one said you had to go to college right out of high school other than maybe to get your general ed's out of the way because _fuck general ed's. Seriously. _If you're a woman wanting to be a man for real and not because you want to own the cons or some other BS, have at it. Be yourself at the end of the day. You do you. Because at the end of the day, who the fuck am I to tell you how to live your life? It's a giant world out there, and we're just a pale blue dot in a huge galaxy which is itself just one galaxy out of many. It is truly up to you to decide what you want to do. Do you want to build up a better world for everyone else and yourself, or tear it all down to the worsening of others' living conditions? I know this all sounds like it's big and it's gonna take a lot of work, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Fix yourself first as best as you can, and keep doing that while you keep working and trying to become a benefit to society, no matter how small that benefit may seem to you. Sure, that item you're stocking on that shelf may end up in someone else's hands and the shelf may be bared of all of the item stocked by the end of the night or in the next day, but you helped others' day by making that item available for purchase which will help the store get more of that item and invest into other things that could improve the store itself in more ways than one. But it's up to you to make that first step to figure out what needs to be done.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



yuyuyup said:


> Gee I wish the OP would answer the first question asked of him in this thread


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## Deleted User (Jul 24, 2019)

AmandaRose said:


> That really only applies to England and Wales though as the Conservative party are hated by everyone here in Scotland and only the SNP and Labour get votes.


Check the 2017 general election, the Tories made gains in Scotland, competing with the SNP
EDIT: I am mostly referring to General Westminster Elections, if you're talking about Scottish Parliament elections then I'm none the wiser sorry. I'm from England.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jul 24, 2019)

Iwata asks interviews: https://iwataasks.nintendo.com/


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## AmandaRose (Jul 24, 2019)

Jack54782 said:


> Check the 2017 general election, the Tories made gains in Scotland, competing with the SNP
> EDIT: I am mostly referring to General Westminster Elections, if you're talking about Scottish Parliament elections then I'm none the wiser sorry. I'm from England.


And like I said previously it was a tactical vote by a number of SNP supporters to

1. Stop Labour getting into power
2. To protest against the SNPs continued attempts at leaving the UK. 

BoJo has been hated here for years due to various remarks he has made about Scotland not helped by the fact he said two weeks ago if he became PM he was gonna screw Scotland over in numerous ways.


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## Deleted User (Jul 24, 2019)

smf said:


> Not all, some I assume are good people. Your leader is very rapey though and the majority chose him, or at least that is the claim he makes. You'll let him do ANYTHING as long as he lets you keep your guns and blames immigrants, even though you are all immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Waiting for the chance to shoot someone?? No, not at all. I want to be able to defend myself_ should_ the need arise. No way is anyone ever _not _gonna have a gun. Dude I understand, I wish we didn't have to have guns but the world is falling apart and people are evil now.
I'm not talking about becoming a vigilante, that's what the cops are for. But cops take time to show up, as mass shooting victims can tell.
You do have a point there about the drone strikes.

Dude, I'm not in love with Trump, he's not my god or anything. I agree, I don't like his past life at all. He's actually said some terrible things I don't agree with. But I respect the things he does in the White House. I don't think he's all that terribly smart, either. But he loves the country. And if he was really racist, I would expect him to cancel this.

Now, is he Islamophobic? I don't know. I'm not, because again it comes to hatred and I cannot deal with that. Just read the Koran.

I know you've heard everybody say this already, but we only care about _illegal _immigration. I know our immigration system is broken, but what if Russians were coming across the border? How would we even know, without an immigration system?
They could just come in and vote ole' Don back in again.
Here's Obama talking about a border fence.


I can justify my beliefs, which aren't guided by politics but by my own personal convictions, and you can do the same too.

I appreciate it buddy, thanks for being polite.


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## regnad (Jul 24, 2019)

I'm going to answer the original question as briefly as I can:

Most gamers are relatively young. Not all, of course, but the average gamer is younger than the population as a whole. 

Most young people are liberal. Not all, of course, but more young people are liberal than the population as a whole.

And there you have it!


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## mesakagi (Jul 24, 2019)

You have to remember that things like gamergate happened and communities like oneangrygamer, 4chan and dsogaming exist, so we at least know there's a large portion of the gaming community who are firmly not left leaning at all. There are also lost of communities in which native advertising is deeply embedded in the forum culture and those sites will always cater to and generally foster a community of people who have liberal ideals, still, it's rather hard to accurately gauge just how much of the gaming community as a whole actually is liberal or not especially when silent majorities cant be taken account for. There are a lot of people who play games from all over the world though, simply playing games especially online it's rather hard to be right wing when you're mixing with so many people from all different countries and backgrounds and perhaps it's because of this, the constant mixing of people and indirect exposure to other peoples cultures and ideals that most will becoming left leaning but even that depends on so many factors around the individual themselves and how they form their belief systems and their own personal set of values. It's an interesting thread topic nonetheless.


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## Deleted User (Jul 24, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> This is somewhat on point...for fundamentalist Christians only in my experience. Think the ones that support Tim Tebow because he had John 3:16 on his shades that American football players put on their cheeks (I forget what they're called, there's a term for it) or putting their support behind whatever is considered as part of their in-group. But it's not just any Christian, especially if it's a Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, or one of those country clubs known as community churches. It has to be a born again, Old King James Bible-believing, Jack Hyles-loving (this is the especially fucked up part as my father did go to this piece of shit's college that he described as being old-fashioned and shoddy. Hyles' son-in-law was actually the guy in the video I'll be linking at the end of this post who got caught taking a minor across statelines for sex), John R. Rice-loving, Duggar-loving, homeschooled, abortion-hating, gay marriage-hating (even if they aren't open or blunt about it, they'll make negative comments about it when the cameras are off and there's no chance of their comments being made public), traditional gender roles supporting individual, male preferred, but not necessary.
> 
> The only way I even know about all of this is that yours truly's Aspergian ass had the pleasure of growing up in the Old Independent Fundamental Baptist conglomeration of churches. Emphasis on the Old as I was spared the insanity of Steven Anderson as he wasn't around when I was growing up and, thankfully, my parents had enough common sense to know what is plainly clear as bullshit. They were very supportive of yours truly's Asperger's growing up and able to help me get to a point where, to be frank, it's honestly only a diagnosis to me at this point. Still, I had the honor of having to deal with a certain school teacher not being supportive, something that went so well that I was eventually kicked out of the private school and sent to the "den of immorality" that was public school where, in an _ironic_ twist of events, I got the help and support needed and am now a functioning adult with a job who's working on moving out so he doesn't ever have to be associated with whatever OIFB has the potential of morphing into if one of my older brother's and his lack of vaccinating his kids is any indication of where the movement is headed along with the New IFB it spawned!



I'm sorry, that's terrible. I've never been involved in a church and don't want to be, because most of them are corrupted anyways.

Can I ask you, did the OIFB ever let you read a Bible, or did they just try to cram the stuff down your throat? I'm really sorry about these horrible people and I'm glad you got through it, but the Bible is not what they make it out to be.
Nowhere does it say to hate unbelievers, homosexuals, or people who have aborted their babies. God says your in danger of Hell for even just hating your brother (in other words, fellow human being). Rest assured, they won't get away with it. I'm going to be unpresent to answer you, so when I get back I would love to speak to you about it. I know you don't want to here what I have to say, cause I'm a Christian, but I can understand why and I hope you don't mind discussing it.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

yuyuyup said:


> Gee I wish the OP would answer the first question asked of him in this thread



Your question isn't worth answering. I have no idea why GBAtemp allows people like you to even participate in the forums, if you have to ask whether this thread is a troll or not clearly either you lack intelligence or you are trolling yourself. I asked a question about switch hacking and I had a guy say the same thing you did, I usually don't waste my time responding to immature comments but seeing as you insist there you go.


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## Hanafuda (Jul 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's probably just as you theorize: right-wingers seem to have a need to be perceived as more masculine, so they seek hobbies which will perpetuate that image.  Hunting, fishing, NASCAR, (American) football, auto repair, etc.  It's largely illogical of course, I myself enjoy two of the five in that list, but most things colorful and creative tend to be viewed by the right as childish or feminine.  Gaming included.
> 
> We all know "MAGA" isn't a neutral slogan denoting that you're a conservative, though.  It's a slogan which denotes that you're part of a cult of personality centered around a singular, divisive political figure.  So it isn't surprising that it gets a lot of negative reactions.




It's a political question so I guess it's fair to politicize as you've done there, but I really think your analysis is too focused on trying to demonize people and opinions you don't like. It's a lot more simple than that, I think. Young people who haven't yet endured the hardships of an adult working life and haven't endured the sorrow of significant loss and/or tragedy, are more likely to be liberals, or at least think they are. And, I think it's fair to say the "gamer" community skews to younger folk, at least online. I'm 52 and when I was in my early 20's all my friends were patchouli using potheads with dreads and mostly either in school and still living off mommy&daddy, or working part-time jobs. No responsibilities. They were all, of course, revolutionary socialists in their minds. And I considered myself more or less aligned with them. That lasted until I was about 30, and I've been progressively leaning more conservative ever since. But I'm one of those somewhat libertarian-type conservatives that thinks "conservative" means the government stays out of your personal business, that the Federal government should be strictly limited to the scope and authority given by the Constitution (no administrative agencies, for example), and the government shouldn't borrow money so it can 'support' people with welfare. So I really can't find much to like about the 'platforms' of either major political party.


I don't know if it's an accurate quote ... those can be difficult to verify these days (don't believe everything you read on the internet - A. Lincoln), but I have heard this one attributed to Winston Churchill. Whether he was the first to say it or not, no matter. It is quite true, from my experience.

"If a man at 20 is not a liberal, he has no heart. If a man at 40 is not a conservative, he has no mind."



.


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## FoxMcloud5655 (Jul 24, 2019)

I hate politics.  I try to steer clear from it as best as I can, within reason, but I'm not afraid to voice my own opinion if challenged.  Since I'm in America, as others have said, the only parties that have any say in anything are the Republicans and the Democrats here.  I view both of these parties as corrupt and evil.  I mean, look at Trump; regardless of how you view him, it's funny that even the Republicans were trying to get rid of him after he was elected because he is technically a third party not associated with the Republicans.

With all of that said, if I had to pick a side, I'd lean right.  I love myself a well crafted video game; shoot, I even make my own video games.  Not a day goes by that I don't either play, make or watch someone play video games.

I haven't read many of the other posts here, but I do want to at least say that even if the majority of people online declare themselves liberal, I have met many others out there that there are like me.  Maybe it's just that I got "lucky", but I also don't really like to get out that much, so there's that


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## notimp (Jul 24, 2019)

I hate politics. I try not to read too much. You know, like most people. But I'm American. As most people in here.

I think that how all kinds of venues are explored by political parties on how to get rid of a president that caused all of americans foreign relations to suffer, and the world economy to steer towards recession, is remarkable. But because I see how bad the american political system actually is - I understand, that nothing matters - other than public opinion (minus jerrymandered opinion, minus votes that arent registered, minus the electoral delegate system), so that he will stay in office regardless.

I mean, I dont know to much - but I play videogames. I even make them.
And I'm left leaning.

Copy me. Like you do with answers to forum polls.

Award
LOL

(50% of the content in this post (the human interest stuff) is made up. You have to read, when it comes to politics. Not copy sentiments. Informed opinion is all what its about.)


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## FAST6191 (Jul 24, 2019)

mesakagi said:


> You have to remember that things like gamergate happened ...so we at least know there's a large portion of the gaming community who are firmly not left leaning at all. There are also lost of communities in which native advertising is deeply embedded in the forum culture and those sites will always cater to and generally foster a community of people who have liberal ideals
> 
> 
> still, it's rather hard to accurately gauge just how much of the gaming community as a whole actually is liberal or not especially when silent majorities cant be taken account for. There are a lot of people who play games from all over the world though, simply playing games especially online it's rather hard to be right wing when you're mixing with so many people from all different countries and backgrounds and perhaps it's because of this, the constant mixing of people and indirect exposure to other peoples cultures and ideals that most will becoming left leaning but even that depends on so many factors around the individual themselves and how they form their belief systems and their own personal set of values. It's an interesting thread topic nonetheless.



A) was gamergate a right wing affair? and B) was it that big a deal beyond a few media companies getting a black eye?

Native advertising? I always knew that as the practice some where places write articles but in reality they are thinly veiled adverts. What does that have to do with anything here? I am not even sure what you are heading for here.

I am also at a loss for how playing games online makes it hard to be right wing. Voice chat is largely optional and shoot them in the head, win the race, punch/flying spin kick them in the dick, build the best city/ship/country... minimal chance for expression there or for right wing types of whiny nature to drop a monocle and have to quit lest they be seen to associate, even in such a passing fashion, with someone which is OK with helping starving people in the street or something.
Less sarcastically how would mixing of people and exposure to cultures necessarily make someone less right wing? At best I would see it as avoiding an echo chamber or demonising the other group(s), both of which are nice things and sadly not nearly as borderline universal as they have been in the past. Or are you assuming right wing is the same as complete and utter bigot? Because it really is not. Exposure of bigots to the "hated" group often does very well at making them not be bigots but that is surely a different discussion.


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## FoxMcloud5655 (Jul 24, 2019)

notimp said:


> I hate politics. I try not to read too much. You know, like most people. But I'm American. As most people in here.
> 
> I think that how all kinds of venues are explored by political parties on how to get rid of a president that caused all of americans foreign relations to suffer, and the world economy to steer towards recession, is remarkable. But because I see how bad the american political system actually is - I understand, that nothing matters - other than public opinion (minus jerrymandered opinion, minus votes that arent registered, minus the electoral delegate system), so that he will stay in office regardless.
> 
> ...


Can't tell if this is supposed to mock my statement or is a well crafted troll...  Either way, I have one word.

noice


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jul 24, 2019)

The statement seems pretty sweeping to me, and as far as my own personal experience in the circles that I am personally a part of they generally lean right. So it might just be down to where you are on the web. Reddit leans a lot more left than it does right, for example. 

But once again, this is all anecdotal and trying to say that gamers as a group are one thing or another is probably impossible, other than to speculate a particular reason for gamers to be that one thing and not the other, though I am sure there are many ways you could reason that gamers are the other thing.


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## notimp (Jul 24, 2019)

FoxMcloud5655 said:


> Can't tell if this is supposed to mock my statement or is a well crafted troll...  Either way, I have one word.
> 
> noice


Trolling.  Your phrasing was so sympathico, that it made me think about becoming a conservative.  Then I realized, that copying peoples political sentiments, because of sympathy, or having similar hobbies, might not be too great of a thing. 

Then I trolled, but only because your statement was very, very personable, and likable.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> A) was gamergate a right wing affair? and B) was it that big a deal beyond a few media companies getting a black eye?
> 
> Native advertising? I always knew that as the practice some where places write articles but in reality they are thinly veiled adverts. What does that have to do with anything here? I am not even sure what you are heading for here.
> 
> ...



Can you explain what he means by native advertising? I never heard that terminology before.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



TheDarkGreninja said:


> The statement seems pretty sweeping to me, and as far as my own personal experience in the circles that I am personally a part of they generally lean right. So it might just be down to where you are on the web. Reddit leans a lot more left than it does right, for example.
> 
> But once again, this is all anecdotal and trying to say that gamers as a group are one thing or another is probably impossible, other than to speculate a particular reason for gamers to be that one thing and not the other, though I am sure there are many ways you could reason that gamers are the other thing.


Reddit,Temp, and Twitch. What gaming communities do you visit that lean right?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FoxMcloud5655 said:


> Can't tell if this is supposed to mock my statement or is a well crafted troll...  Either way, I have one word.
> 
> noice



Notimp is a troll that mods allow since he is left leaning, but he usually resorts to ad hominem attacks and gets away with it since mods agree with him. I personally don't even bother replying to his posts.


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## dude1 (Jul 24, 2019)

mesakagi said:


> You have to remember that things like gamergate happened and communities like oneangrygamer, 4chan and dsogaming exist, so we at least know there's a large portion of the gaming community who are firmly not left leaning at all.


left leaning people can want ethics in game journalism just as much as right leaning people.
also you don't need to be right leaning to be against SJW/PC propaganda in media whether it be it gaming or anything else because SJW "virtue signaling" and Political Correctness is just a form of Identity Politics and the majority of both the left and the right believe in individuals, meritocracy etc.  and not group identity like that

it sounds like you've spent too long online and are buying into these hateful naritives being pushed by mainstream media.


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## kevin corms (Jul 24, 2019)

play call of duty online, tell me most of them are liberal. I think most people who chat about games online might be liberal, more conservative people likely would think its a waste of time.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Can you explain what he means by native advertising? I never heard that terminology before.


I did in the quoted post but could go a bit further if you want.

Native advertising, sometimes also called advertorials, is where something that appears at first glance (all the formatting, text styles, often even full content) like a conventional article is inserted into the newspaper, articles, reviews or whatever in exchange for payment, or blend in with the native content if you prefer. It can skip advert blockers* and many even read them if they are just reading an article.
Legally speaking in many places they are supposed to have a line in it saying a consideration was offered in exchange for this space but it will be at the end and at that point you have already viewed the advert or whatever it happens to be.
I don't know when the practice was first undertaken** but it got massively popular a couple of years back when newspaper and whatnot revenues plummeted. As far as journalistic ethics goes it is a hotly debated topic -- technically journalistic integrity is not compromised but the appearance of such things is something many seek to avoid, in addition to the whole "tricking the reader" thing.  On the other hand they often pay a lot more money for said articles than they might for conventional advertising. You can also see a lot of this among the video making set wherein schedules, final approval and whatever are agreed in return for a "review" or contemplation of a product but that is probably a different discussion, for a jumping off point though then that Shadow of Mordor thing a few years back is a good one as a lot was written about it ( https://www.geek.com/tech/warner-br...hadow-of-mordor-and-hide-sponsorship-1661411/ ) and even the FTC got involved.

*facebook did a somewhat related thing here where they made their adverts appear as normal posts in feeds and thus be hard to reliably filter, only for the ad blockers to turn around and say "you already trained us to accept partial feeds, who cares about a few false positives?".

**not to mention there are probably some blurry lines between what is an open letter, how separate are advertisers really, what product provided reviews are, what inviting people to experience you thing is, sponsored posts for an event, what paying a journo for a speaking engagement... all are. Some would make a distinction based on payment, how covert it aims to be, what editorial control the money giver has and so forth, which is probably fair, but I don't think there is any kind of consensus on the matter.

What it has to do with anything in this discussion here, or what term the poster I quoted intended to type but had a brain-fingers disconnect, I do not know.



Maluma said:


> Notimp is a troll that mods allow since he is left leaning, but he usually resorts to ad hominem attacks and gets away with it since mods agree with him. I personally don't even bother replying to his posts.


Is that what you think? If everybody of suspect debate skills at times was dropped then there would be a whole lot less people around.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Your question isn't worth answering. I have no idea why GBAtemp allows people like you to even participate in the forums, if you have to ask whether this thread is a troll or not clearly either you lack intelligence or you are trolling yourself. I asked a question about switch hacking and I had a guy say the same thing you did, I usually don't waste my time responding to immature comments but seeing as you insist there you go.



Probably a Waygeek alt you're responding to. Dude accused me of "derailing" a thread (not this one, I fully admit I may have derailed the thread a bit here with some of my posts from before) even though I was the first motherfucker to post shit in the thread. Not to mention being classy enough to call me stupid. Way to stoop to what you perceive as Trump's level, guy!


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I did in the quoted post but could go a bit further if you want.
> 
> Native advertising, sometimes also called advertorials, is where something that appears at first glance (all the formatting, text styles, often even full content) like a conventional article is inserted into the newspaper, articles, reviews or whatever in exchange for payment, or blend in with the native content if you prefer. It can skip advert blockers* and many even read them if they are just reading an article.
> Legally speaking in many places they are supposed to have a line in it saying a consideration was offered in exchange for this space but it will be at the end and at that point you have already viewed the advert or whatever it happens to be.
> ...



He calls people he disagrees with idiots, I personally don't think that immature people should be allowed to post in the politics section. If you are going to insult people I don't think you should be allowed to access the politics subforums. I also believe that trolls/jerks should be banned from the switch sections since they discourage new members from asking questions and as a result bricks/other errors can happen. It happened alot with the 3ds hacking where people wouldn't ask questions since they didn't want to put up with the abuse and they ended up with bricked units. I don't think GBAtemp is the right place for people with superiority complex.

In my opinion jerks should be temp banned and warned of a permanent ban if they do it again, it would be amazing for forum morale and would quickly shift the forum culture when people realize they have to use their manners in order to participate. Unfortunately this issue has been going on for years and nothing seems to happen besides mods getting burnt out only for us to get new staff every couple of years. No grown adult wants to deal with bullying on a gameboy forum.


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## Silent_Gunner (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> He calls people he disagrees with idiots, I personally don't think that immature people should be allowed to post in the politics section. If you are going to insult people I don't think you should be allowed to access the politics subforums. I also believe that trolls/jerks should be banned from the switch sections since they discourage new members from asking questions and as a result bricks/other errors can happen. It happened alot with the 3ds hacking where people wouldn't ask questions since they didn't want to put up with the abuse and they ended up with bricked units. I don't think GBAtemp is the right place for people with superiority complex.
> 
> In my opinion jerks should be temp banned and warned of a permanent ban if they do it again, it would be amazing for forum morale and would quickly shift the forum culture when people realize they have to use their manners in order to participate. Unfortunately this issue has been going on for years and nothing seems to happen besides mods getting burnt out only for us to get new staff every couple of years. No grown adult wants to deal with bullying on a gameboy forum.



I mean, I agree, but at the same time...welcome to the Internet!

I wouldn't trust forums anyways per se over a well written guide or a good YT video when it comes to hacking. Like I mentioned in my previous post, there was this guy who apparently has no girlfriend who accused me of being a fan of Peterson and Trump just because I shared two video clips of them when, if you look at the context (a word that liberals seem to hate when it comes to women and sexual assault...curious), I was using it in jest, but he's not attacking a strawman at all! He's just going, "man, no wonder you're such an idiot if you post videos about Trump and Peterson", two individuals who Republicans (that don't dislike Peterson because he isn't a fundamentalist Christian explicitly) just happen to have a lot of respect for. Doesn't mean that the videos posted are yours truly intending to spread whatever the alt-left considers to be alt-right propaganda when I'm furthest thing from that BS!


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## TheDarkGreninja (Jul 24, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Reddit,Temp, and Twitch.



I wouldn't say temp leans left, though I guess it might come down to use because most of the political threads I've been on typically have people who lean more on the right side of the spectrum.
We've also got to take into consideration the fact that what is viewed as left and right differs from country to country. I personally wouldn't call Obama all that left other than a few policy decisions but that ultimately comes down to the fact that in the UK being a strong leftist usually means being a socialist which is shone in a pretty negative light in US media.

As far as my circles, they're a lot of discord groups that I'm a part of surrounding the discussion of games. Temp is the only forum I (somewhat ) regularly discuss in.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 24, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> I mean, I agree, but at the same time...welcome to the Internet!
> 
> I wouldn't trust forums anyways per se over a well written guide or a good YT video when it comes to hacking. Like I mentioned in my previous post, there was this guy who apparently has no girlfriend who accused me of being a fan of Peterson and Trump just because I shared two video clips of them when, if you look at the context (a word that liberals seem to hate when it comes to women and sexual assault...curious), I was using it in jest, but he's not attacking a strawman at all! He's just going, "man, no wonder you're such an idiot if you post videos about Trump and Peterson", two individuals who Republicans (that don't dislike Peterson because he isn't a fundamentalist Christian explicitly) just happen to have a lot of respect for. Doesn't mean that the videos posted are yours truly intending to spread whatever the alt-left considers to be alt-right propaganda when I'm furthest thing from that BS!



What word are you referring to? It seems white knights that don't even get girls love to argue about any little thing that may even joke about saying something negative in regards to women. I personally think that people that aren't successful sexually carry an inferiority complex that they try to compensate for by being overly politically correct.


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## RandomUser (Jul 24, 2019)

smf said:


> even though you are all immigrants.


That is probably borderline asinine thing to say or claim.
Don't confuse birth with migration.


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## Lacius (Jul 24, 2019)

RandomUser said:


> That is probably borderline asinine thing to say or claim.
> Don't confuse birth with migration.


I think he means we are all either immigrants or descended from immigrants.


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## RandomUser (Jul 24, 2019)

Lacius said:


> I think he means we are all either immigrants or descended from immigrants.


That makes sense, especially the descended from immigrant.
Thank you for clearing that up.


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## Benja81 (Jul 24, 2019)

Is it possible that conservatives who, as has been mentioned in this thread, may be more concerned with how people view them. Are just less likely to admit that they play video games?


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## smf (Jul 24, 2019)

Lacius said:


> I think he means we are all either immigrants or descended from immigrants.



Trump said those women should all go back to where you came from, and three of them were born in the US. So you must still be an immigrant even if you and your parents were born in the US.


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## Nerdtendo (Jul 24, 2019)

I think the left wing just might be slightly more vocal


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## osaka35 (Jul 24, 2019)

Most folks are center. The center is pretty liberal to an uncomfortable amount of folks in the US and other larger countries at the moment.

It's also important to note someone can be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. And you can even be fiscally conservative in certain aspects, and socially fiscal in others. Just two huge categories kind of papers over the complexity of our individual and social needs.


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## Xzi (Jul 24, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> It's a lot more simple than that, I think. Young people who haven't yet endured the hardships of an adult working life and haven't endured the sorrow of significant loss and/or tragedy, are more likely to be liberals, or at least think they are.


This makes no sense whatsoever.  The more people get their necks stepped on by the heel of the corporate boot, the more conservative they become?  Sounds like Stockholm syndrome taking root to me.  The experience has been wholly opposite from my perspective, however: the more I experience and witness the struggles of the working class, the more I lean into Socialist beliefs.



Hanafuda said:


> But I'm one of those somewhat libertarian-type conservatives that thinks "conservative" means the government stays out of your personal business, that the Federal government should be strictly limited to the scope and authority given by the Constitution (no administrative agencies, for example), and the government shouldn't borrow money so it can 'support' people with welfare. So I really can't find much to like about the 'platforms' of either major political party.


On the two party system being bullshit, we agree.  Modern-day conservatives aren't actually conservative in any sense of the word, and modern-day liberals are largely ineffectual centrists more concerned with maintaining the status quo rather than pushing for real change.  Bernie Sanders and AOC get just as much push-back from Nancy Pelosi as they do from Donald Trump.  It's frustrating enough that I'm likely to change my party affiliation to Independent soon.


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## Josshy0125 (Jul 24, 2019)

Because most people are liberal. Because most people arent stupid.


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## Godofcheese (Jul 25, 2019)

I'm more in the center 
I can agree with both sides on certain topics 
But I'm leaning more and more to the right because left wing peeps here in Sweden are fucking braindead it hurts...


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## mattytrog (Jul 25, 2019)

I`m not liberal. Then again I`m not a gamer. A gaming world is far too limited.
Being stuck essentially inside someone elses mind? With all limitations that provides? No thanks.

I cannot, for the life of me see the attraction beyond killing an hour with my son before bedtime.

How people can "chat" online with headsets etc etc is just above my understanding.
Get out in the real world people. TV will give you square eyes.

By the way... By "liberal", I`m assuming you mean left-wing.

You know what they say... 

*If you aren`t a liberal by 20, you have no heart. If you aren`t a conservative by 40, you have no brain.*


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## Pipistrele (Jul 25, 2019)

mattytrog said:


> *If you aren`t a liberal by 20, you have no heart. If you aren`t a conservative by 40, you have no brain.*


Considering some of the current popular trends in conservative movement (particularly climate change denialism), as well as poor history of conservative rulers across the globe in last couple dozen years, I kinda expect this saying to flip on its head eventually


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## plasturion (Jul 25, 2019)

Because they were told they are, but in fact all the people are only conservatives. Why? Because people refer to some expirience from the past, that's enough reason when someone value own freedom and independence. Liberal is the idology to keep people on chain. Conservative promote you automaticly to a prime minister of all nations.


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## osaka35 (Jul 25, 2019)

plasturion said:


> Because they were told they are, but in fact all the people are only conservatives. Why? Because people refer to some expirience from the past, that's enough reason when someone value own freedom and independence. Liberal is the idology to keep people on chain. Conservative promote you automaticly to a prime minister of all nations.


Could you...try that one again? Why make up definitions when there's an actual definition out there.


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## plasturion (Jul 25, 2019)

I don't make any new but only extended meaning actual one.


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## orangy57 (Jul 25, 2019)

I think this is the complete opposite case, and the political views of your peers just depends on what community you're in. Most people on GBATemp are conservative and carry beliefs that I don't agree with from my experience. The reason you'd consider most gamers "liberal" is because lots of news sites that also report on games have more left-leaning journalists, which means that their minority is the most vocal since they're the ones that are able to start up commotion


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## bandithedoge (Jul 25, 2019)

Why is that even a question? I can't say gamers are super political. You shouldn't care what people you play with vote for as long as they don't try to shove their opinion down your throat. You're probably very sensitive to things like that or the only game you play is Battlefield V.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 25, 2019)

Josshy0125 said:


> Because most people are liberal. Because most people arent stupid.



Most people are stupid and implying that conservatives are stupid just because you disagree with them is rather petty on your part.


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## notimp (Jul 25, 2019)

Xzi said:


> This makes no sense whatsoever. The more people get their necks stepped on by the heel of the corporate boot, the more conservative they become? Sounds like Stockholm syndrome taking root to me.


Here is how I have that conceptualized.

When people start to have families, or are settling down - for many of them this is connected to some kind of a story about a higher importance and therefore compromise.

So you lie when you have to, you stop to say what you think, you take on corporate hirachies, you play the being promoted game - all of that is the antithesis of 'living a liberal life' - but again it is something that most people, in some form experience.

This - also forms a freaking odd 'bond' - so think of corporations, when you have to do something, that maybe a little cheeky, or wrong - for a project, for a team, for the firm - it kind of locks you into this game - where 'you had to do stuff for the betterment of the corporation, and for your life' - that 'those damn liberals wouldnt understand, why you had to do'.

And you might laugh about it but this moment of understanding of a certain 'fall from grace' is actually pretty important to the conservative ethos.

Sounds pretty abstract - but once you think about that the prerequisite of becoming a wallstreet broker, or a mortgage salesmen were 'ambition' alone (and then maybe people skills) - and then that corporations were targeting people in those 'periods of their lives' to become employees, you are starting to think about that notion a little more (if you are me..  ).

The corporation is more than you are, the corporation can make or break you, the corporation has given you a chance to proof yourself, when nobody else has. Those are pretty standard conservative values. Or set points in their lives, that conservatives might have experienced.

So there is something to that idea.. Its not entirely off.

(Then if you are playing the promotion game within organisations its often about 'getting ahead of your peers', filtering out employees through zero sum games, testing ambition, loyalty, ability to work and outperform under stress, lead, ...  All of that is conservative mythos - and it starts at "the company is more than I will ever be". At least with the bigger ones. 

In the free software, or hacking movements, we can use none of that. Those pretty much are all red flags for us.  Because we improve, if one of us improves, and then shares that with others. Corporate structures kind of work different. (They are all about replicating set states/conditions with different people that were formed to pre-set roles.))


----------



## Glyptofane (Jul 25, 2019)

Xzi said:


> On the two party system being bullshit, we agree.  Modern-day conservatives aren't actually conservative in any sense of the word, and modern-day liberals are largely ineffectual centrists more concerned with maintaining the status quo rather than pushing for real change.  Bernie Sanders and AOC get just as much push-back from Nancy Pelosi as they do from Donald Trump.  It's frustrating enough that I'm likely to change my party affiliation to Independent soon.


Hear, hear! They are tricking us out and running us around in circles of non-change with the these two fake parties. I originally switched from Independent to Republican to support the Ron Paul "Revolution". It's still a good basis for my beliefs, although some things have shifted over the years. Now I just want to stop voting, but also want to go back to Independent solely for if and when anyone Googles my real name and finds the voter registration information. I don't really want to be associated with or liable for the nonsense from either side.


----------



## MRJPGames (Jul 25, 2019)

-snip-


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## notimp (Jul 25, 2019)

Glyptofane said:


> Hear, hear! They are tricking us out and running us around in circles of non-change with the these two fake parties. I originally switched from Independent to Republican to support the Ron Paul "Revolution". It's still a good basis for my beliefs, although some things have shifted over the years. Now I just want to stop voting, but also want to go back to Independent solely for if and when anyone Googles my real name and finds the voter registration information. I don't really want to be associated with or liable for the nonsense from either side.


On the positive side - stability. Managed change. Which is kind of what you want as societies.

But then if you lower growth rates to 0% - it kind of also calcifies social states over generations. Which leads to conflict potential. 

If you just want to use it as a comment against a 'wealthy class' - they never have 'lost' as a class pretty much in history.

(Aristocracy got overthrown, as middle class citizens became more wealthy (industrialization), ...)

edit: If you feel especially rebellious today, always think of the cardinal rules. People rebell, when they are without hope (loss of fear), and hungry. And in western societies - that never happens.  (Anymore)

Progressive ideas are filtered in from the edges to the center through democratic processes, transition of power is solved without needing violence (democratic elections). And the rich (as a class) never loose. 

There you have it. 

Now - as a state, you kind of like that as well - because if people get rich, they become long term interested. (How do I keep rich - is the next idea - basically.) Now, if they all invest capital in virtual economies that have no direct connection to real productivity (goods being produced), you are unlucky - but in the other instances - rich people act as catalysts, providing capital for economic growth - which becomes basically their societal function.

Most think that they are predestined to do so, because people around them tell them, that they are..  (Not true. Just lucky.) But at the same time, they now draw in talent - that helps them retain funds, and grow. So they have intelligent people - which might be why (as a class) they tend not to loose. 

That draw is why money = power. If you are just a shmuck having won the lottery - you might not think about professional networks, development opportunities, setting up self reproducing structures, ... They do.


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## Windaga (Jul 25, 2019)

Politics are messy.

I was at the gym yesterday, doing my start up cardio. There's a wall full of TVs right in front of me. On one TV is CNN (I think? Anderson Cooper was on the TV so I assumed CNN) and they're talking about how Trump's defeat at the hands of Mueller's reporting is imminent. On the TV right next to it is Fox (Ingram Angle I think the segment was called?) and they're discussing how "The Dems are defeated "AGAIN."" I did 30 minutes of cardio, and the entire time, these two shows were just harping back at each other, calling the "other side" moronic, foolish, etc.

I've still NO idea what Mueller actually said in total. They'd show clips, but they were edited to only show one piece or another of what he was actually saying. Hosts on either side would jump in and say things like "See! This clearly shows that there's more to be found" or "How confidant can we be in someone who can't remember word for word a report that he himself "allegedly" wrote?"

It's fucking garbage. And I hate that this is how some people get their news. I know people personally that will look at either program and go "Yep, yep, typical "bashing one side." It's disgusting. This "us vs. them" mentality is gross.

Edit
Oops, forgot the initial question. I dunno! Nor do I know if that's true. I would like to think that, as gamers in the internet age, we'd see past silly things like teams, hateful opinions, general politics, etc., and just play the game. But I've played matches of games like Smite and the entire chat was filled with political vitriol from/to both sides, so...

I get the "idea" behind "young people are democratic, older people are republican, therefore, more gamers are liberal because more young people play games than older people", but in my experience, that's just not true. So I don't know. I just hope for a day where we can all go "yeah, the system is fucked. Let's work together to fix it."

Or a day when we get an updated release of Loz: Oracle of Seasons and Ages. Both are days I deeply yearn for.


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## notimp (Jul 25, 2019)

Windaga said:


> and the entire time, these two shows were just harping back at each other, calling the "other side" moronic, foolish, etc.
> 
> I've still NO idea what Mueller actually said in total.



Happy to oblige.  Nothing new.

Basically according to intelligence sources and the interviews they have had with people related to the matter: Trump had business contacts in russia - but they werent really active at the time, and now are on ice. Their campaign met with people believed to be russian spies, or interest brokers, but with sufficient plausible deniability. So no case could be made around it. What the russians are believed to have done is to maybe helped supply 'attack surface' at the right time (like an hour after a 'scandal' story released to press by the dems, like twice).  Direct facebook campaigns to convince people not to vote - in certain regions as well - although at least anecdotally without investing that much money (we know only of 300k worth of ad buys). The C.I.A still is very outraged about that story in particular though. 

Direct coordintation with the Trump campaign could not be proven. Nor direct involvement. (Whenever some of their election team met a spy and things got too iffy, they fired that person..  )

So in regards to an actual collusion indictment  - nothing was substantial enough that they could make a legal case.

Now, public oponion is a different field (not law), which is why you see that messy stuff boil up currently.

What isnt out of the box yet - entirely, is if Trump tried to obstruct the investigation. And there is strong wording all over the report (part 2) that he did. (I mean he fired an FBI director, he tried to stop the investigation politically...) There is strong indication, that he did. And then there was an entire media campaign that misrepresented the actual findings on obstruction - which is now what that hearing in theory (Muller saying that he was met with obstruction attempts.) was for.

But in practice the hearing was all about media attention and playing the public game - because, again - there is an entire part 2 of the Muller report thats all about the obstruction issue - and spells everything out. Congress and their staffers can read it (heck even I can (partly redacted)), but DEMs wanted the TV opportunity. Then were mildly miffed, that Muller wasnt more 'active/loveable' on screen. So within the dems, where they are split, if they should try to impeach or not - it didn't move many minds.

Now as an acting president, Trump has political immunity for the stuff he did, while being president - so - eh, still not enough to impeach him on obstruction. But maybe after he is out of office, and has lost immunity.

Chances are, that that wont happen either - as at that point, nobody important cares about him enough, and it all becomes about being a potential reputation issue for the US. So, eh....


All in all - Trump will not get impeached. And all thats currently happening are attempts to win the public over with moral arguments, because its election season again. 

(Im mostly non partial, as a european - and thats mostly what gets reported/how it gets commented on in our news/political panels on the topic.)


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## notimp (Jul 25, 2019)

Oh I have to mention, why public opinion is important in case of impeachment. Dems only want to impeach (attempt), if its publicly popular. Because after impeachment you get (earlier) elections. So in reality this ship already has sailed, because you are mid election cycle - and there is not a huge amount of public outrage yet. 

So benefits for the dems, other that excecising it as a matter of public discussion - are almost none already. Thats why people are pretty sure, that Trump will stay in office until the elections.


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## Windaga (Jul 25, 2019)

notimp said:


> Happy to oblige.  Nothing new.
> 
> [clip]
> (Im mostly non partial, as a european - and thats mostly what gets reported/how it gets commented on in our news/political panels on the topic.)



Thanks for the recap. I'll watch it later tonight after my workout. 

I'd just love a site/news program that gave just facts - no interpretations, no commentary, no opinions - just "Trump Said xyz." "Mueller said XYZ." Here are the sources. 

Though, it is interesting to see what people from the outside think.


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## Josshy0125 (Jul 25, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Most people are stupid and implying that conservatives are stupid just because you disagree with them is rather petty on your part.


Nah mate. If you look at statistics, conservatives tend to be  Much less intelligent and much less open minded.  They tend to be the science deniers and The Bible lovers. There is a very real correlation between conservatives and lower intellect.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 25, 2019)

Josshy0125 said:


> Nah mate. If you look at statistics, conservatives tend to be  Much less intelligent and much less open minded.  They tend to be the science deniers and The Bible lovers. There is a very real correlation between conservatives and lower intellect.



Post the proof. Most business owners are conservative, care to explain that?


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## Immortallix (Jul 25, 2019)

Maluma said:


> I've noticed that no matter the medium, most gamers seem to have left leaning beliefs and this applies whether it is twitch,twitter,gaming forums, or even just guilds in MMOs. Why does it seem that most gamers are liberals on the internet? It seems like no matter what gaming website you are on people become increasingly hostile towards you once they realize that you aren't a liberal. Why don't more conservatives play games? Is it because most conservatives think it's stupid and childish to play video games? Or is it maybe that younger people tend to gravitate towards liberalism and younger people also play more games? Even saying something as simple as MAGA can get someone to downright despise you.



I used to be quite liberal, not so much anymore, but to answer your question, it's the people in control. Most journalists, critics, US devs, or anyone who really have connections and influence are usually in California or NY, both hyper-liberal states. Being in these positions of reach and power they influence a lot of younger gamers. Many people who spend a lot of time in online circles will think these views and opinions they're seeing on Polygon & IGN are the norm, accepted truths.  
Our mainstream media has also done an extremely good job at demonizing anyone not far-left. Trump is literally Hitler and conservative views make you a punch-able Nazi. I don't really know if anything can be done about this current climate, its quite sad for sure.


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## Josshy0125 (Jul 25, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Post the proof. Most business owners are conservative, care to explain that?


Look online. Im busy. But it's not hard to find.  Also that comment is nonsensical.


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## kumikochan (Jul 25, 2019)

Josshy0125 said:


> Nah mate. If you look at statistics, conservatives tend to be  Much less intelligent and much less open minded.  They tend to be the science deniers and The Bible lovers. There is a very real correlation between conservatives and lower intellect.


Well i don't agree because that would be basically saying Americans tend to be dumber than the rest of the world seeing patriotism is basically nationalism and nationalism is conservative


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 25, 2019)

Josshy0125 said:


> Look online. Im busy. But it's not hard to find.  Also that comment is nonsensical.



Your comments are insulting and non-nonsensical. You are calling people stupid when you are the one that refused to read the rules to posting on the political section. IMO mods should have deleted your post.


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## Josshy0125 (Jul 25, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Your comments are insulting and non-nonsensical. You are calling people stupid when you are the one that refused to read the rules to posting on the political section. IMO mods should have deleted your post.


So we're just going to ignore statistics and fact and just project? Gotcha.


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## Lacius (Jul 25, 2019)

Josshy0125 said:


> Nah mate. If you look at statistics, conservatives tend to be  Much less intelligent and much less open minded.  They tend to be the science deniers and The Bible lovers. There is a very real correlation between conservatives and lower intellect.



It's inaccurate to say "conservations are much less intelligent." For starters, "intelligence" is an almost impossible thing to actually measure. There are also plenty of "smart" conservatives and plenty of "dumb" liberals.
The same goes for your comments on open mindedness. There are plenty of open-minded conservatives, and there are plenty of closed-minded liberals.
That being said, it's accurate to state that there is a correlation between liberalism and more education. In other words, the more education one has, the more likely he or she will be Democratic/liberal/progressive/etc.



Maluma said:


> Post the proof. Most business owners are conservative, care to explain that?



Whether or not a person runs a business, regardless of how successful a business is, is irrelevant to the topic of intelligence, so this isn't a very relevant response.
Something like 38% of business owners are Republican, so no, "most business owners" are not Republican.


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## Josshy0125 (Jul 25, 2019)

Lacius said:


> It's inaccurate to say "conservations are much less intelligent." For starters, "intelligence" is an almost impossible thing to actually measure. There are also plenty of "smart" conservatives and plenty of "dumb" liberals.
> The same goes for your comments on open mindedness. There are plenty of open-minded conservatives, and there are plenty of closed-minded liberals.
> That being said, it's accurate to state that there is a correlation between liberalism and more education. In other words, the more education one has, the more likely he or she will be Democratic/liberal/progressive/etc.
> 
> ...


I definitely could have used better wording. With that said, i completely agree with you. 



Maluma said:


> It's a fact that you are using personal attacks on the political forum, you didn't bother to read the rules and clearly you lack the temperament to discuss politics in a civil manner. Welcome to my ignore list.


Neat.


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## Glyptofane (Jul 25, 2019)

Maluma said:


> It's a fact that you are using personal attacks on the political forum, you didn't bother to read the rules and clearly you lack the temperament to discuss politics in a civil manner. Welcome to my ignore list.


Well, maybe he's a drunk. Don't just ignore him. Sometimes I lose myself and go nuts on the representation of the conservative side of the spectrum, poorly articulated at that. @Lacius and @Xzi have always stuck through it without going totally nuclear.


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## Josshy0125 (Jul 25, 2019)

Glyptofane said:


> Well, maybe he's a drunk. Don't just ignore him. Sometimes I lose myself and go nuts on the representation of the conservative side of the spectrum, poorly articulated at that. @Lacius and @Xzi have always stuck through it without going totally nuclear.


Thank you for sticking up for me. Im not drunk, but I definitely was when i wrote my initial reply here. Very good!


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## Benja81 (Jul 26, 2019)

Lacius said:


> That being said, it's accurate to state that there is a correlation between liberalism and more education. In other words, the more education one has, the more likely he or she will be Democratic/liberal/progressive/etc


This makes a ton of sense to me, especially the learning correlation. Learning expands the brain, therefor possibly making you more open to other ideas, literally, but in addition more education means learning even more about history and what works best for the citizens from their government.


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## notimp (Jul 26, 2019)

Windaga said:


> I'd just love a site/news program that gave just facts - no interpretations, no commentary, no opinions - just "Trump Said xyz." "Mueller said XYZ." Here are the sources.
> 
> Though, it is interesting to see what people from the outside think.


Yeah again, thats not how that works. 
First you cant separate opinion from your 'view of things' entirely. (Basically, people make up the facts for their believes in their minds. Has always been an issue with witness accounts f.e.)
Second, people like good stories (as in - you could literally just read the Muller report and News agency stories - but no one does).
Third, people get payed more for opinions than for facts. And its an easier gig.
Fourth you could always err and be wrong.
Fifth, if you want to be informed, you need access, to get access you need to basically create sympathy, once you have access you become tame to keep it.
Sixth, there are always two sides to a story (at least), and a business side.
Seventh, people dont want facts - they want interpretations, which loops around back to 'you get payed more for them.
Eighth: PR and message control.
Ninth: Language is not neutral
Tenth: If it were (scientific vernacular) most people wouldnt understand it.
Eleventh: You can not not communicate (http://scihi.org/communication-paul-watzlawick/)
...

Good luck finding the podcaster of your dreams..


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 26, 2019)

Games have historically challenged current social norms. 
that may indicate why most gamers tend to be liberal.


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## notimp (Jul 26, 2019)

Neh. Depends on the game. 

Easy example - in the animal kingdom, games are used to teach situational behavior.

Also the "thats why most gamers tend to be liberal" premise really is flawed (as others have pointed out before).

Games currently are played by a large cross section of humanity, as they became popular culture.

You would never argue "why are most movie goers liberal" (because it shouldnt matter much, as almost everyone goes to the cinema) - but for games we still think niche - for whatever reason.


Basically OP lied - and a bunch of people got triggered to write what they felt. Hence this thread. 
Why OP felt the need to argue "I'm a victim here" we dont know. Probably because none of the far right talking points was taken without resistance by other people on this forum.

Then OP had to decide, that either they were dumb - or the whole world was against him, so he chose "the whole world is against me".






Mystery solved.

Btw - which console is best? I thougth I'd ask. Maybe if I phrase it like - "Why are most people playing PS4?" (Seven pages of peoples opinions later, ...)


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## notimp (Jul 26, 2019)

On the MAGA point. If you take a slogan - and fill it with meaning. You cant complain that people dont take it literal anymore.

Because otherwise - lets go full 1984 and rename the ministry of defense, ministry of love, and ... What - people have something against love now?

False premise again.  Which now leaves us asking - you cant really be that dumb right? You trolling? 

edit: Someone also should do a meta analysis of this forum how many of the popular threads are actually a varient of "mine is better than yours", but specifically phrased as "why is mine better than yours", or "isnt it unfair, that yours is better than mine". Because it feels like all of them are. 

Everyone can participate with just an opinion or feeling - and off you go. 

(If people are unsure about something nowadays they usually phrase it as "what is best?" which you could also analyze as a variant.)


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## Windaga (Jul 26, 2019)

notimp said:


> clipped
> Good luck finding the podcaster of your dreams..



It's not a matter of human interaction or innate opinions - in practice, AI can deliver what I'm asking for - or I could simply watch it myself.  It's more so that I wished people would _want_ unfiltered news, not that it doesn't exist or isn't possible.


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## Jayro (Jul 26, 2019)

Republicunts just need to go away forever. And the Libtards need to suck their shit up, and quit being so SJW-ish in games. There's gotta be a good balance, and too far either direction sucks for everyone.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 26, 2019)

@notimp How did I lie? All you do is troll people on the politics section and this entire thread is composed of liberals saying that it isn't true. You posted a picture of someone else's child without their consent and are trying to come off like you are this really mature enlightened individual. You really aren't at all, you just get away with trolling on GBAtemp because 90% of the staff here is liberal otherwise you would be long gone.

95% of the people arguing in this thread have stated that they are liberal yet you are still trying to pretend that you are an intellectual that some how debunked that most gamers aren't liberal. Read the politics section on GBAtemp and you will see that liberals outnumber conservatives here 9 to 1.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 26, 2019)

Maluma said:


> @notimp How did I lie? All you do is troll people on the politics section and this entire thread is composed of liberals saying that it isn't true. You posted a picture of someone else's child without their consent and are trying to come off like you are this really mature enlightened individual. You really aren't at all, you just get away with trolling on GBAtemp because 90% of the staff here is liberal otherwise you would be long gone.
> 
> 95% of the people arguing in this thread have stated that they are liberal yet you are still trying to pretend that you are an intellectual that some how debunked that most gamers aren't liberal. Read the politics section on GBAtemp and you will see that liberals outnumber conservatives here 9 to 1.



not really. a lot of discussion is back and forth. I really have no idea where you are getting this from.
Although the underlying point seems like this bothers you at some level i would presume. Which it shouldnt. Outside of the politics forum, nobody cares tbh.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 26, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> not really. a lot of discussion is back and forth. I really have no idea where you are getting this from.
> Although the underlying point seems like this bothers you at some level i would presume. Which it shouldnt. Outside of the politics forum, nobody cares tbh.



I just reread the thread and I still see that the vast majority of the people here claim that they are liberal. In a perfect world politics don't matter but I just don't understand why gaming draws liberals more than conservatives. I am not really naive enough to believe that there are more conservatives in gaming than liberals. On twitch I encountered the same thing, hyper sensitive PC culture where people constantly shit on the President but if you say anything back you are banned or are called names. For example there are a few users in this thread calling people idiots, it's completely against the rules but they are allowed to do it because the vast majority of the staff is liberal and they find it amusing.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 26, 2019)

Maluma said:


> I just reread the thread and I still see that the vast majority of the people here claim that they are liberal. In a perfect world politics don't matter but I just don't understand why gaming draws liberals more than conservatives. I am not really naive enough to believe that there are more conservatives in gaming than liberals. On twitch I encountered the same thing, hyper sensitive PC culture where people constantly shit on the President but if you say anything back you are banned or are called names. For example there are a few users in this thread calling people idiots, it's completely against the rules but they are allowed to do it because the vast majority of the staff is liberal and they find it amusing.


A single thread. Go look at other threads and enjoy many people that identify as conservative pile on things they dislike as well (which is fine really).

as for people engaging in ad-hominems... If it bothers you, do the adult thing. do not engage in it and report it if you are getting insulted for no reason.

@Chary is pretty responsive in this regard and so are others.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 26, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> A single thread. Go look at other threads and enjoy many people that identify as conservative pile on things they dislike as well (which is fine really).
> 
> as for people engaging in ad-hominems... If it bothers you, do the adult thing. do not engage in it and report it if you are getting insulted for no reason.
> 
> @Chary is pretty responsive in this regard and so are others.



Report and then what? I've been on this community for over 10 years. Notimp called me an idiot on a different thread and I had to contact 5 mods just to remove it because he cleverly hid it in a long paragraph. After finally contacting enough people, a moderator just removed the part where he called me an idiot and nothing else was done.

There is no solution here because moderating the forums properly would be way more work than it is worth. That's why the moderators fluctuate every two years and eventually start feeling apathetic. Nintendo mostly caters to children and adults that are a bit on the immature side. There is realistically nothing that the moderators can do to solve the ad hominem attacks or the general immature theme of the forum. If you have ever seen pictures of GBAtempers you will quickly see that there are many people in this community that are maladjusted. I am just venting at this point because there is absolutely no solution to this problem.

NoTimp posts a clearly trollish post calling me a liar and comparing me to a picture of a little kid(which is ridiculous that an adult would find funny) and a 30 year old guy likes it. What 30 year old man would even find that post remotely amusing?


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 26, 2019)

you report it and wait for a moderator to make a call. If they dont agree with you they may have their reasons and im pretty sure it would not always be politically motivated. you have to stop seeing people with different beliefs than you as out to get you or as an opponent. Just a sugestion.

This forum caters to a lot of consoles and not only one type of audience. 

also notice how you just made a generalization about GBAtempers? do not be surprised when they make one back about you. 

also as a final note:



Maluma said:


> hyper sensitive PC culture .



just remember a lot of people do use this as a veil to say some pretty awful things to others. If you believe these folks should "suck it up" then dont be surprised when they start saying awful things back to you or others that may share similar views. On this point I am being sincere, and not trying to accuse anybody of anything. just food for thought

Either way im out. I have said what i felt needed to be said on this topic. Just remember just because i disagree on politics with you does not mean I have an issue with you as a person. hopefully it holds the same for you.


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## tabzer (Jul 26, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Why does it seem that most gamers are liberals on the internet?



Just trolling, but maybe liberals like living in an illogical fantasy world were they are the ones privy to the exploits.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 26, 2019)

tabzer said:


> Just trolling, but maybe conservatives like living in an illogical fantasy world were they are the ones privy to the exploits.


see what i did there? you can change a word and it would sound the same. 
this is the sort of stuff that is just made to rile people up. I dont suggest it if you want to get people's honest thoughts or opinions on the matter.

Honest political discussion that is meant to be productive should start without taking potshots at the other side.

either way. Im off to bed. good night to all of you.


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## tabzer (Jul 26, 2019)

It really doesn't sound the same, because the question wasn't "Why does it seem that most gamers are conservatives on the internet?"  I was being liberal when I responded to that, too, btw.  You want to have "honest political discussion" then maybe you should heed "just trolling" as a big warning that you aren't going to get that from me.


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## XDel (Jul 26, 2019)

Maluma said:


> I've noticed that no matter the medium, most gamers seem to have left leaning beliefs and this applies whether it is twitch,twitter,gaming forums, or even just guilds in MMOs. Why does it seem that most gamers are liberals on the internet? It seems like no matter what gaming website you are on people become increasingly hostile towards you once they realize that you aren't a liberal. Why don't more conservatives play games? Is it because most conservatives think it's stupid and childish to play video games? Or is it maybe that younger people tend to gravitate towards liberalism and younger people also play more games? Even saying something as simple as MAGA can get someone to downright despise you.



It's a bitter pill that we should all be set down and made to come to terms with at an early age, and that pill is called Social Engineering and Generational Conditioning, though most today just know of it simply as harmless ol' marketing. If I may suggest a few points of study from a strictly academic approach..

Adam Curtis Documentaries (Youtube, BBC)

After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's (the old battle plan from the 80's, I watched it all unfold)

Neil Postman Books (Books, Youtube) (60's to birth of Internet)

Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (and other books) (20th century) (youtube)

The Art of War by Sun Tzu (ancient)

The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind by Gustave Le Bon (late 1800's)

Edward Bernays (Youtube) (Books: Crystalizing Public Opinion, Propaganda) (early 20th Century)

B.F. Skinner's Research

Group Psychology and The Analysis of The Ego by Sigmund Freud

And probably the research of those involved in the education system such as Peg Luksik I.E. this old neglected video where in she was trying desperately to warn the people of yesterday of what they were being conditioned to be today, and she hit it square on the head, corporate funding and all. Now let me ask you this, when was the last time in history where you saw corporations unify for the cause of the rain forest people, the cause of the malnourished, diseased, homeless, and suffering? When did they try to stop the American machine from totally eradicating the memory of the cultures that resided here prior, when have you seen mega corporations loose sleep over our rapidly depleting wisdom, discernment, common sense, and education with foundation? Though for what ever reason, they are more than happy to pump millions into adverts that encourage more sex and in more varieties than before, and also to chase after your heart, and of course the product and philosophies they are peddling to you as well.  But what do you say to those who wish to be fooled?    


And also, here, like the books of Postman, are some references that really help to keep one truly and sincerely awake and able to surf the tides of a superficial and utterly false reality.

The Wisdom of Christ

Zen and Core Buddhism

Simone Weil

Jiddu Krishnamurti


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 26, 2019)

tabzer said:


> It really doesn't sound the same, because the question wasn't "Why does it seem that most gamers are conservatives on the internet?"  I was being liberal when I responded to that, too, btw.  You want to have "honest political discussion" then maybe you should heed "just trolling" as a big warning that you aren't going to get that from me.


oh that was not directed to you. That was directed to anyone that wants to engage in honest conversation. 
seriously though. now im out. work is early tomorrow.


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## tabzer (Jul 26, 2019)

There is no such thing as "honest political discussion".  It's an oxy-moron.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 26, 2019)

XDel said:


> It's a bitter pill that we should all be set down and made to come to terms with at an early age, and that pill is called Social Engineering and Generational Conditioning, though most today just know of it simply as harmless ol' marketing. If I may suggest a few points of study from a strictly academic approach..
> 
> Adam Curtis Documentaries (Youtube, BBC)
> 
> ...




Thanks for the information, I saved all the links you sent me in case that the mods decide to delete your post. I do value your opinion a little bit more than the opinion of others that have posted here since your profile says that you are a wee bit older than most members here. I don't necessarily think that most liberals are stupid how some people here think that conservatives are dumb, I just think that there is an agenda that is being force fed down peoples throats through the media and the state sponsored education system. Everyone always thinks that their views are unique even though they just regurgitate what their college professor told them or whatever politics their favorite actor/artist follows.


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## XDel (Jul 26, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Thanks for the information, I saved all the links you sent me in case that the mods decide to delete your post. I do value your opinion a little bit more than the opinion of others that have posted here since your profile says that you are a wee bit older than most members here. I don't necessarily think that most liberals are stupid how some people here think that conservatives are dumb, I just think that there is an agenda that is being force fed down peoples throats through the media and the state sponsored education system. Everyone always thinks that their views are unique even though they just regurgitate what their college professor told them or whatever politics their favorite actor/artist follows.




Yes, thank you, and I sincerely hope you enjoy them, and I assure you, I have no agenda attached except for stating that reality that we tend of think of it is a farce. 

That said, I do hope that having been here and having been attentive to the social changes around me since as far back as I can remember (I was always  the black sheep), counts a bit more than someone who wasn't there to come along and here the version that they read about or that their older peers told them... leaving out the fact that half of them were drunk and partying or too busy working, watching TV, and keeping up with the joneses to really SEE you know? But now suddenly everybody is woke, backed with years of research, meditation, observation, etc. etc. in a truly scientific manner and all that. 

Anyhow, I am not saying liberals are stupid, I am saying that the general populous has been dumbed down and and made to believe that our ignorance is in fact wisdom and knowledge. We were all created with amazing potentials, but as it was once said, the road to freedom is seldom traveled by the multitude, and that road is all in your head... figuratively. 

That said, what is liberal and what is conservative? By whose conservative values are we going by? A particular Native American tribe? That of a young business professional for the 80's and 90's? Or how about Leave it to Beaver, or Rocky Horror Picture Show, that's kind of old now and could be considered Conservative. As for liberal, that means that it leans towards liberation, and if liberation leans towards Freedom, then perhaps I am a liberal myself, but I look around and so many self proclaimed liberals what to tell me how to live, talk, think, and so forth. And while I share a lot of values with people who consider them selves conservative, I also find that many of them are attempting to put me into a box or mold of some kind, and are often afraid of "things that are different" such as different religions, philosophies, etc., even those that exist outside of the scope of sex and actually deal with the deeper aspects of life, reality, and consciousness.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 26, 2019)

XDel said:


> Yes, thank you, and I sincerely hope you enjoy them, and I assure you, I have no agenda attached except for stating that reality that we tend of think of it is a farce.
> 
> That said, I do hope that having been here and having been attentive to the social changes around me since as far back as I can remember (I was always  the black sheep), counts a bit more than someone who wasn't there to come along and here the version that they read about or that their older peers told them... leaving out the fact that half of them were drunk and partying or too busy working, watching TV, and keeping up with the joneses to really SEE you know? But now suddenly everybody is woke, backed with years of research, meditation, observation, etc. etc. in a truly scientific manner and all that.
> 
> ...



So would you describe yourself as a libertarian?


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## XDel (Jul 26, 2019)

Maluma said:


> So would you describe yourself as a libertarian?



Nagh, more like a spirit in a material world. Just passing through, here today, gone tomorrow.


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## Minox (Jul 26, 2019)

I really doubt most gamers are liberal. Or at least I don't believe they're an overwhelming majority. The ones who aren't often just refrain from saying they aren't since doing so can often be social suicide due to how crazies react.


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## Subtle Demise (Jul 26, 2019)

I think there is a good mix of all kinds of people since gaming is so mainstream now. Myself, I'm a borderline anarchist; I guess you'd say minarchist or Libertarian but with even less government oversight. From where I sit on the spectrum, it's equally amusing and frustrating to see the left-leaning games media and many developers/publishers alienating their more right-leaning customer base and then blaming poor sales on patriarchy, misogyny, or any of the various "phobias" that get thrown around and have no meaning anymore. I often find myself not-so-secretly hoping for the entire industry to become unsustainable and to come crashing down. My philosophy is that it's best to keep politics and religion separate from business in order to avoid annoying large portions of your customer base, but what do I know?

One oddity I noticed based on the forums of a certain private gaming torrent tracker is that many of the users are both pro-police and pro-social justice, which is just strange considering it's a community based around stealing games. 

One of the subjects that often comes up is the portrayal of sex and sexuality and the appearance of women in games. Now, one would think a liberal community would be more open to these ideas, but the consensus seems to be that sexy women in games = bad and sexuality is generally frowned upon, lumping them all together as japanese loli rape hentai games, when that couldn't be further from the truth. It's perfectly fine to show caricatures of musclebound manly men, but Christ forbid we show a woman with anything bigger than a C cup or a little bit of skin. That would be misogyny and objectification! Outrage culture, no matter which side they claim to represent, is a hindrance to society and needs to end.


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## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> stealing games



You wouldn't download a car.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2019)

Minox said:


> I really doubt most gamers are liberal. Or at least I don't believe they're an overwhelming majority. The ones who aren't often just refrain from saying they aren't since doing so can often be social suicide due to how crazies react.


Entirely bullsh*tt non argument and 'I'm a victim narrative' from a former staff member no less. You can litterally say anything in forums these days, if you just add 'I feel'.

And people will cheer for your standpoint. Because you feel so pretty. Thats the times we are living in.

Racist, homophobic stuff, outright lies. Conspiracy theories, that arent even fun, and bare no resemblance to reality. This forum alone is hard on the edge of being a shere dumpster fire, where a few people still try to move some of the ideologic lies that fuel it - out of 'well, I guess thats what most people say, so it must be true' range.

I hate your statement - do you understand that?

To have anything of substance with your 'emotional - we so victims' - you have to give examples. Not sentiments. If you give none - and pronounce yourself - or anyone who wants to feel that way a victim - you are manipulative and nothing else.

Give examples - we could look at and at least discuss - and your sentiment may be fine - give none, and you are literally engaging in the worst form of propaganda there is. Its all emotion, nothing else, right.

F*ck.

And please remove yourself from the discussion, if thats your input.

"But I feel.."

And that may be all you are doing - you feel your reality  - you dont use your brain even once. And thats a problem. Liberal, conservative, doesnt matter here.

What makes this worse, is that you get likes here just because of status (your forum badge). Thats another issue. So you hide behind status symbols and feels. And talk to an impressionable young audience - spreading victim narratives. Get out.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2019)

I feel that most gamers are liberal. Wrong.
I feel that this is a grave injustice. Even if it were true: Wrong.
I feel that the reasons for this view have to be discussed, but somewhere in the realm of 'its all the others fault'.
Why am I always the victim? Wrong.


Do you want a big picture view of whats happening here? Again?

Young people growing up in an instagram world want something to rebel against, but also be 'cool'. Cool now is what gets most likes and followers (completely wrong as a concept), so you now have to rebell by being against a grave injustice that is also so blasé that everyone can kind of agree to your cause of 'trying to be different, but cool'.

So you start SJW stuff, where you fight for the rights of minorities, that are so small as a group, that not many people in the real world 'care' either way. And because you dont get any pushback all your stances tend to end up on the extreme end of the spectrum, while at the same time you convince yourselves, that your view is beyond criticism - because you are doing gods wok. Now how about that as youth culture. If you want to optimize for more followers - you rephrase some of the more radical statements, because people dont like stances that are too radical - but again, that already gets offset by 'nobody really cares' about that stuff in the first place - so there is even room to be radical and 'cute'. or radical and 'figthting the good fight' - and getting all them instagram lkes - because the issues are so small (only in terms of people affected, not feels).

Gamers are still pretty much a 'low life subculture' in the public eye - which also has to do with the way gaming was pushed into the mainstream. I mean, you cant sucessfully argue, that games are art, and at the same time defund all 'critics' and and create a fluffer culture with youtubers and streamers that talk about the most popular sh*t without any artistic integrity or deeper meaning, for living. Fortnight. So lets say that was marketings fault, you all were victims - and move on.

Because Gamers don't matter at all in the public eye (you are not cool, you are not happening, you are not sexy, you are not important, you are living a virtual life) - they are now also being able to be denounced as a subgroup. Some feminists, for whatever reason picked you out as a main field for criticism. Because its an easy target. Feminism fighting against the subgroup of historically non feminist cultural expression, where they are most likely to get likes for what they are doing. Hating on gamers for gender discrimination is born. Mainstream likes it, because it really changes nothing (they hated gamers for shooting all the schoolchildren) - hence - here are your likes.

The biggest issue here is, that you are tackling predominantly male - youth identity - by ramping up insecurities through the roof - in the current feminists hating on gamers climate. Again - would you please challenge actual societal role models first? Too hard? Too few likes in that?

When you hear a gamer pleading that he please wants his sixties styles sexualized iconography back - chances are, that he's not the bad boy objectifying women in the real world, sisters. ('But all objectification is wrong, and this gives me most likes!' Says the self optimizing feminist. 'Could I make a living by counting female protagonists in videogames?' she asks herself. And society loves it - because it only addresses issues with 'tha gaming folk'  which is of no importance to them at all.)


Here are the arguments on the other side that have something to it in my mind. With people drawing all their self worth out of WORTHLESS gamification tickers, that are only there so you watch all the advertisement space - cultures have to become more inclusive - or else those small minorities either don't participate in those 'societal games', or get singled out and depressed even more. Theres something to that. But only if you accept, that everybody has to have 2000 followers to be happy or be considered 'of any societal importance'.

There are dumb fucks out there in elitist meetings, that do exactly that. Shut those down first, if you want to change any of it.
(see: https://www.apa-ots-video.at/video/5333013067a14a6eb3013067a17a6ef3 )


The joke about all of this is - that it is entirely compatible to mainstream cultural interests, and would not change anything politically - economically, in any meaningfull way. So advertising money is on board, and you get most likes and followernumbers.

Then there is racism. Which is exactly the same (intrinsic feels based motivation, getting gamified (likes, followernumbers)), but without the advertising money. Racism even became mainstream.


So is all that the fault of 'liberals' - i dont think so. But I know for fact, that bubbles - which is what you are building that way, lead to the propagation of more extreme, more uninformed opinions. Which then tend to clash. The accepted way out of it currently is to become youtuber/twich streamer - and fake like everything - and be fake disturbed by everything that isnt trending. Self optimize. Thats the current societal answer to bubbles. (Discussions never could take place in social media - because the format was: Load off your emotions in a response in and ever scroling feed. (Youtube comments people culture. But everywhere.) - and now we are transitioning to more regional bubbles (whatsapp fried circles) as a way out of it. Thats also compatible with the nationalist revival. Horray for advertising money.)

Lets face it 90% of you have never learned how to engage in an argument, without trying to ruin the other persons public image. Collectively, you are uneducated, gamified, angry, and entirely convinced, that it is the fault of the other side - just not the social media system you are all participating in willingly - every day.

Any takers on that?

Also - any takers on you all only post variants of "why is my position better than yours?" or "isn't it unfair, that my position isnt better than yours" as topics - because you all learned, collectively, that this is whats popular, and popular is important.

This thread - entirely popular - and until now, hasnt really produced much of intellectually stimulating thought. But you had 100 takers, that offered you their feels in what substitutes discussion today.


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## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2019)

I've noticed that some people here are pulling dirt on others. Rather than focusing on the actual argument.  (not going expand on that. it's just a statement)
Anyways So let's ask a question. Does it really matter that much about the political spectrum in a video game to the point that it ruins it for you because others in the opposite party you may talk to or end up playing with? I know a few people who are conservative. And honestly I don't care. As long as they don't do or support something that is clearly wrong. _such as the supposed concentration camps at the borders which I'm iffy about. However can see why it could be possible due the fact trump is well... Trump._
But if it is true, and they support treating people like that (if they are asylums seekers) then no. I would tell them it's fucking inhuman and that is a horrible point of view to have. But I would never wish the person to be dead or something along the lines of go die. Because then, well... that would make me inhuman to some extent.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> I've noticed that some people here are pulling dirt on others. Rather than focusing on the actual argument.  (not going expand on that. it's just a statement)
> Anyways So let's ask a question. Does it really matter that much about the political spectrum in a video game to the point that it ruins it for you because others in the opposite party you may talk to or end up playing with? I know a few people who are conservative. And honestly I don't care. As long as they don't do or support something that is clearly wrong. _such as the supposed concentration camps at the borders which I'm iffy about. However can see why it could be possible due the fact trump is well... Trump._
> But if it is true, and they support treating people like that (if they are asylums seekers) then no. I would tell them it's fucking inhuman and that is a horrible point of view to have. But I would never wish the person to be dead or something along the lines of go die. Because then, well... that would make me inhuman to some extent.


Argument for 'why poilitcs dont matter'.

But then you need "vote or die" campaigns to even get people to the polls. (US is a country with a voter turnout so low - that democracy arguably doesnt work in concept anymore. You have to substitute 'but most people are happy - otherwise they'd vote' to even have it work argumentatively.)

What your argument does is arguing for "everyone just calm down - and ignore stuff", which also doesnt help.

No - the actual issue here is, that people have never learned how to hold proper discussions - and want to win anything on 'how it makes them feel emotionally - when they are confronted with a view" these days.

In fact - isn't that the premise of popular TV formats like 'The View'? So for all the young folks out there - the idea, might be a little bit older... (Much older, in fact.)

Fluffy , flowers, and ignore - is exactly not whats needed. We can live without PC culture for a while - wile trying to identify problems.

PC culture is ignoring issues - with the addition of having the out of telling everyone, that you couldnt do anything about them, because no one told you. (Because you ignored everything that wasnt presented PC.)

"But why are so many people not agreeing with me - should I look for a different hobby?" is a problem. If people start to believe, that this is really a valuable mindset to have.

If you define your position as valuable, or even correct - because of what popularity numbers it can draw - you have become a Borg.(A drone.)

And yes, that is a comment thats personal and directed at the thread starter.


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## galneon (Jul 27, 2019)

Why Liberals and Atheists are More Intelligent

Science: Are gamers smarter than non-gamers? (spoiler: research shows they are)

Gamers are therefore more likely to be liberal than the average individual.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

notimp said:


> Entirely bullsh*tt non argument and 'I'm a victim narrative' from a former staff member no less. You can litterally say anything in forums these days, if you just add 'I feel'.
> 
> And people will cheer for your standpoint. Because you feel so pretty. Thats the times we are living in.
> 
> ...



No. *YOU *can say whatever you want because you are a liberal and you go with the flow of the forum. Look how disrespectful you are being to a former staff member that poured hours upon hours into the community. What have you done here besides troll? I reiterate, if you were a conservative you would have been perma banned from this forum a long time ago.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2019)

To break it down further. You being outraged, that there is a Anita Sarkeesian, or that the Verge's Gaming podcast crew uses 'inclusive wording' that makes me do doubletakes - if english language really has changed so much in only five years' - might not matter at all societally - for at least the next 40 years.

This doesnt allow you to be racist in return, or try to convince people - why the scientific majority opinion on climate change is fake.

So if you do - and you get pushback. Dont try to hide behind 'we always so victimized". Just because you learned that from SJWs.

Controversial? True?

Thought provoking?

And no - you are not into videogames, because 'peoples what is best?' opinion on 'what is best political fraction' agrees with yours.

You'll realize that right after you have realized, that you are not into videogames, because Sony, MS, or Ninty are the bestest companies. I know it takes time. But the intellectual payoff once you do, I tell you - is really worth it.


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## galneon (Jul 27, 2019)

Minox said:


> I really doubt most gamers are liberal. Or at least I don't believe they're an overwhelming majority. *The ones who aren't often just refrain from saying they aren't since doing so can often be social suicide due to how crazies react.*



You do realize we can sense the darkness in you, right? Conservative political beliefs routinely accompany an array of other undesirable traits which make most of you quite easy to spot.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> You do realize we can sense the darkness in you, right? Conservative political beliefs routinely accompany an array of other undesirable traits which make most of you quite easy to spot.



Liberal beliefs accompany an array of undesirable traits. Everyone here thinks they are a genius because they are liberal even though it get force fed down your throat by the state ran education system. 99% of celebrities are liberals, if your beliefs are the same as celebrities there is something seriously wrong with what you hold important in life. Being a drone that doesn't question what they are taught doesn't make an individual unique or intelligent.


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## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Liberal beliefs accompany an array of undesirable traits. Everyone here thinks they are a genius because they are liberal even though it get force fed down your throat by the state ran education system. 99% of celebrities are liberals, if your beliefs are the same as celebrities there is something seriously wrong with what you hold important in life. Being a drone that doesn't question what they are taught doesn't make an individual unique or intelligent.


"Everyone here" I'll stop you right there. The moment you try to lump every single person invalidates a portion of your argument, especially when you consider people who don't view themselves as all that smart. Key example is actually myself. I get told by people around me that I'm smart, but I don't think that I am. There isn't anything that makes me think I am unique or have a ace up my sleeve or some form of anything that screams I'm a genius.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> "Everyone here" I'll stop you right there. The moment you try to lump every single person invalidates a portion of your argument, especially when you consider people who don't view themselves as all that smart. Key example is actually myself. I get told by people around me that I'm smart, but I don't think that I am. There isn't anything that makes me think I am unique or have a ace up my sleeve or some form of anything that screams I'm a genius.



Why didn't you quote the other guy? I quoted part of his post where he says that being a conservative makes you an unworthy person and I switched the word conservative with liberal. Why don't you quote all the other people on here that are calling people stupid and blatantly attacking others including a former staff member?

Also, didn't you delete one of your post a week ago in effort to avoid a ban because you lost control of your temper and resorted to an ad hominem attack?


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## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2019)

notimp said:


> Argument for 'why poilitcs dont matter'.
> 
> But then you need "vote or die" campaigns to even get people to the polls. (US is a country with a voter turnout so low - that democracy arguably doesnt work in concept anymore. You have to substitute 'but most people are happy - otherwise they'd vote' to even have it work argumentatively.)
> 
> ...


I agree. Didn't mean to come out as PC culture or ignore things. That's not what I was aiming, censorship shouldn't be a thing, regardless of material. But yeah, the biggest issue (and partially why I brought up the whole thing about "dirt") is people try digging dirt (for lack of a better word) to then try to say they are wrong. When that dirt is not relevant to the argument in a fashion that moves it forward. (in other words when arugments are brought, people attack the person instead of the person attacking the arguments. Arguments should be held by a case by case basis)




Maluma said:


> Why didn't you quote the other guy? I quoted part of his post where he says that being a conservative makes you an unworthy person and I switched the word conservative with liberal. Why don't you quote all the other people on here that are calling people stupid and blatantly attacking others including a former staff member?
> 
> Also, didn't you delete one of your post a week ago in effort to avoid a ban because you lost control of your temper and resorted to an ad hominem attack?


I Believe your mixing me for someone else.
As for "attacking" you. I don't really feel like quoting every instance where someone does that, if I quote you, any material that is similar or targets similar material should be applied.



which yes is my fault for not making that clear


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## galneon (Jul 27, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Liberal beliefs accompany an array of undesirable traits. Everyone here thinks they are a genius because they are liberal even though it get force fed down your throat by the state ran education system. 99% of celebrities are liberals, if your beliefs are the same as celebrities there is something seriously wrong with what you hold important in life. Being a drone that doesn't question what they are taught doesn't make an individual unique or intelligent.



I was raised in a religious, conservative household in a deep red state, forced to attend religious schools until I was 18 (all but my elementary school taught that evolution was a myth), was ostracized from my family, for a time, after confessing my atheism at the same age, finished university in the same state where, to my consternation, I had the pleasure of not a single outwardly liberal professor, and now live in the rural south where I know not a single liberal within a 15 mile radius of my house.

But okay, you're right... The liberal education system made me a mindless drone obsessed with things like truth, decency, and the rule of law. I'd warn that the next thing you can expect is us to take to the streets in jackboots, but your side already claimed that gimmick.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> I was raised in a religious, conservative household in a deep red state, forced to attend religious schools until I was 18 (all but my elementary school taught that evolution was a myth), was ostracized from my family, for a time, after confessing my atheism at the same age, finished university in the same state where, to my consternation, I had the pleasure of not a single outwardly liberal professor, and now live in the rural south where I know not a single liberal within a 15 mile radius of my house.
> 
> But okay, you're right... The liberal education system made me a mindless drone obsessed with things like truth, decency, and the rule of law. I'd warn that the next thing you can expect is us to take to the streets in jackboots, but your side already claimed that gimmick.



You can look at the statistics and you will see that in most colleges the professors are indeed liberal. Explain why hollywood pushes a liberal narrative? Why are blacks over represented in Hollywood when we have a higher percentage of Latinos in the country? Why is hollywood liberal? Why is racial diversity in movies only geared towards African Americans not towards Asian Americans or Latinos? Why are the doctors in Tv Series always White and Black when in real life they are of Indian or East Asian decent? Are you really pretending like there isn't an agenda going on here?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



monkeyman4412 said:


> I agree. Didn't mean to come out as PC culture or ignore things. That's not what I was aiming, censorship shouldn't be a thing, regardless of material. But yeah, the biggest issue (and partially why I brought up the whole thing about "dirt") is people try digging dirt (for lack of a better word) to then try to say they are wrong. When that dirt is not relevant to the argument in a fashion that moves it forward. (in other words when arugments are brought, people attack the person instead of the person attacking the arguments. Arguments should be held by a case by case basis)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never said you "attacked" me so why is that in quotations? I just said on a separate thread I saw that you made a post on a different thread that you decided to delete 10 minutes after you posted it.


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## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> I was raised in a religious, conservative household in a deep red state, forced to attend religious schools until I was 18 (all but my elementary school taught that evolution was a myth), was ostracized from my family, for a time, after confessing my atheism at the same age, finished university in the same state where, to my consternation, I had the pleasure of not a single outwardly liberal professor, and now live in the rural south where I know not a single liberal within a 15 mile radius of my house.
> 
> But okay, you're right... The liberal education system made me a mindless drone obsessed with things like truth, decency, and the rule of law. I'd warn that the next thing you can expect is us to take to the streets in jackboots, but your side already claimed that gimmick.



Lol at "the other side is nazis".  Also, while Christianity is ironic and tragic, atheism is a complete joke.


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## galneon (Jul 27, 2019)

tabzer said:


> Lol at "the other side is nazis".  Also, while Christianity is ironic and tragic, atheism is a complete joke.



No--"the other side has a white nationalism/domestic terrorism problem."

But please, tell us how atheism is a joke.



Maluma said:


> You can look at the statistics and you will see that in most colleges the professors are indeed liberal. Explain why hollywood pushes a liberal narrative? Why are blacks over represented in Hollywood when we have a higher percentage of Latinos in the country? Why is hollywood liberal? Why is racial diversity in movies only geared towards African Americans not towards Asian Americans or Latinos? Why are the doctors in Tv Series always White and Black when in real life they are of Indian or East Asian decent? Are you really pretending like there isn't an agenda going on here?



Did you not see the research I linked? Liberalism correlates with greater intelligence and a more advanced education. There are more liberal professors because there are more liberal PhDs, not something I'm ashamed to admit. I'm sure I had many liberal professors. They didn't share their views. The Kevin Sorbo professor is a myth, contrary to what Christian bigots preach to the people they want to feel enraged and victimized.

So many false premises in the rest of what you wrote. I'm guessing you haven't seen a doctor television series in the last ten years.


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## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> No--"the other side has a white nationalism/domestic terrorism problem."
> 
> But please, tell us how atheism is a joke.



Pretending you aren't racist by proactively calling the opposing viewpoint racist.  That's classic projection.

Atheism is a big joke.  It's like a making a foundation on invalidity.  It's the religion of the edgelord.


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## Minox (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> You do realize we can sense the darkness in you, right? Conservative political beliefs routinely accompany an array of other undesirable traits which make most of you quite easy to spot.


Those psychic powers of yours seem to be malfunctioning today buddy. I personally would not consider myself conservative, and even if I did that is not an indication of whether you're a good person or not.


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## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2019)

Maluma said:


> You can look at the statistics and you will see that in most colleges the professors are indeed liberal. Explain why hollywood pushes a liberal narrative? Why are blacks over represented in Hollywood when we have a higher percentage of Latinos in the country? Why is hollywood liberal? Why is racial diversity in movies only geared towards African Americans not towards Asian Americans or Latinos? Why are the doctors in Tv Series always White and Black when in real life they are of Indian or East Asian decent? Are you really pretending like there isn't an agenda going on here?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Again pretty sure your thinking of someone else. As for attacking I accidentally miss quoted. It's getting too late for me to think properly. But that was from the part where  you said other people were attacking.


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## galneon (Jul 27, 2019)

tabzer said:


> Pretending you aren't racist by proactively calling the opposing viewpoint racist.  That's classic projection.





galneon said:


> No--"the other side has a white nationalism/domestic terrorism problem."



Is that really how you'd paraphrase what I said? Or do you take exception to my suggestion that white nationalism and domestic terrorism are, in fact, problems?

Who am I racist toward? White nationalists and domestic terrorists?



> Atheism is a big joke.  It's like a making a foundation on invalidity.  It's the religion of the edgelord.



Atheism isn't a religion. It's very simple:

I have no reason to believe in god, therefore I do not.

Do you really think it's possible to describe every tenet of a religion in twelve words? There's nothing more to atheism than that one sentence. It's a simple lack of a single belief. Not an ounce of faith is required because there is nothing to believe.

It follows the same logic as your lack of belief in a terrible demon living deep inside Venus. You have no reason to believe in it, therefore you do not.



Minox said:


> Those psychic powers of yours seem to be malfunctioning today buddy. *I personally would not consider myself conservative*, and even if I did that is not an indication of whether you're a good person or not.



Based on your post feeding the mass conservative victimization pathology (which has long since reached dangerous levels and led to violence), I probably would.


----------



## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> No--"the other side has a white nationalism/domestic terrorism problem."
> 
> But please, tell us how atheism is a joke.
> 
> ...



Let's google shall we?

https://www.google.com/search?q=doc...es&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
No Indian doctors anywhere even though in real life it seems like most doctors are of Asian/Indian descent.

You keep talking about conservatives pretending to be victims when that goes against the whole ideology to begin with. Democrats are the one that think minorities are too incompetent to help themselves without special considerations(reparations,affirmative action,welfare,welcoming illegal aliens because they think they are incapable of fixing their homeland). The conservative mindset is "pull yourself up by the bootstraps". The "conservatives" you talk down to on gbatemp aren't even socially conservative. They are libertarians.


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## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> Is that really how you'd paraphrase what I said? Or do you take exception to my suggestion that white nationalism and domestic terrorism are, in fact, problems?
> 
> Who am I racist toward? White nationalists and domestic terrorists?



I wasn't paraphrasing.  My opinion is that the one who subverts any discussion to being something as superficial as a racial issue, then that is racist.  It's using race as a tool.  Disrespecting every racial identity makes the greatest racist. 



galneon said:


> Atheism isn't a religion. It's very simple:
> 
> I have no reason to believe in god, therefore I do not.



God requires a definition for that assessment to have any relevance.  Suggesting that there is a demon living inside Venus... I will consider the context of the proposition.  Belief or disbelief isn't even an option.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Again pretty sure your thinking of someone else. As for attacking I accidentally miss quoted. It's getting too late for me to think properly. But that was from the part where  you said other people were attacking.



I saw a post you made and 10 minutes later it was edit with the post saying "deleted". I am sure if you search your post history you can find it.


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## galneon (Jul 27, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Let's google shall we?
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=doc...es&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> No Indian doctors anywhere even though in real life it seems like most doctors are of Asian/Indian descent.



Yeah, let's Google.

Dear Pilot Season, You Know not all South Asians are Doctors, Right?

And "most" doctors are of Asian/Indian descent?

The Racial and Ethnic Composition and Distribution of Primary Care Physicians

That only covers PCPs, but numbers for specialists don't vary significantly.

We done for now? Go update your own_the_libz talking points.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 27, 2019)

galneon said:


> Yeah, let's Google.
> 
> Dear Pilot Season, You Know not all South Asians are Doctors, Right?
> 
> ...



You cherry picked a show and completely ignored the top results on google. Everything you have posted as a "source" so far has been cherry picked from information that you google with specific keywords to try to prove your point. I know that your college taught you it made you smart to post "sources" this isn't a college paper and in case you didn't know you can find sources that support anyone of your opinions. There are even sources that say you can cure cancer with vitamins, just because you know how to google specific things doesn't mean that your point is right or that you are an intellectual. College does a good job at convincing intellectually inferior individuals that they are the next coming of Albert Einstein. I hate to inform you that it is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get people to take on debt. Stop trying to grow a brain here and accept that you have been brainwashed.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 27, 2019)

Maluma said:


> I've noticed that no matter the medium, most gamers seem to have left leaning beliefs and this applies whether it is twitch,twitter,gaming forums, or even just guilds in MMOs. Why does it seem that most gamers are liberals on the internet? It seems like no matter what gaming website you are on people become increasingly hostile towards you once they realize that you aren't a liberal. Why don't more conservatives play games? Is it because most conservatives think it's stupid and childish to play video games? Or is it maybe that younger people tend to gravitate towards liberalism and younger people also play more games? Even saying something as simple as MAGA can get someone to downright despise you.


What games do you play lol? Guilds in MMOs (endgame) can be horrible.


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## CallmeBerto (Jul 27, 2019)

Most people are on the left to center left. That is all really.


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2019)

CallmeBerto said:


> Most people are on the left to center left. That is all really.


Thank you fo clearing that up.

Can we go home now?

Or do we have to take part in this maybe self pitty induced (collective feels) ritual for longer?

(Not directed at you. In case thats not clear.)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

No - its definitely not our current societal systems (social media, mostly) that are producing this problem, of people feeling the need to 'fight' the other. Definitly not.

Reminder:


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## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2019)

Maluma said:


> Why didn't you quote the other guy? I quoted part of his post where he says that being a conservative makes you an unworthy person and I switched the word conservative with liberal. Why don't you quote all the other people on here that are calling people stupid and blatantly attacking others including a former staff member?
> 
> Also, didn't you delete one of your post a week ago in effort to avoid a ban because you lost control of your temper and resorted to an ad hominem attack?





Maluma said:


> I saw a post you made and 10 minutes later it was edit with the post saying "deleted". I am sure if you search your post history you can find it.


Found that post your were talking about. Which now almost over a month old. Checking the history of the post, I remembered why I deleted it, it wasn't because staff or anyone from outside as you tried implying. It wasn't a loss of temper, more a questioning of the facts I was saying, since I was pulling it from a semi questionable source (wikipedia) and since I felt that it wasn't quite right, I deleted it, . And then I tried to rework what I said, which horribly failed and became a fallacious argument. And then opted to delete it due to being fallacious.
But I do have to ask.
How does that exactly relate to this?


----------



## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

@galneon is getting pissed because his "god doesn't exist" argument is more complicated than he realized.

Let me ask in another way.  What is "god" that you are to assert a non-belief of?  Do you not see the irony of asserting what is supposedly a passive trait?  Or do you pretend that these sequences of words are not logically possible?

Also, why are you a racist?  Don't you realize that it is damaging to the human race, which you are a part of?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 27, 2019)

Seems a lot has happened. Will have to get back to it later
edit Might as well have a new favourite video though (the categorisation bit doing well for this discussion).

and another because I am greedy


For now though


tabzer said:


> Let me ask in another way.  What is "god" that you are to assert a non-belief of?  Do you not see the irony of asserting what is supposedly a passive trait?  Or do you pretend that these sequences of words are not logically possible?



Gods are a concept that a variety of religions (but not all) describe which either created the universe, or were created alongside it and served to further create things as they are today and possibly have a hand in running things, usually also have traits in/actions from humans they consider desirable. Omnipotence (all knowing and all powerful) and immortality (or at least immortality from the perspective of humans) are common traits ascribed to them, this being the case for the god of the Jews, Christian sects and Islam which nominally share the same deity (a singularly powerful being above all others that in the English language usually gets given the name God and has a capital G to denote such).

Common to all of them though is the lack of a test to determine/prove their existence, or other evidence that might be used to determine such. Such a lack of evidence is the basis for atheism (the lack of a belief in a god) or at least agnosticism (for some a weaker form of atheism that starts from the premise that while there is no proof of a god there also lacks a proof of no god).

So that is four sentences with a bit of fluff thrown in there as well that I would say pretty adequately describes the concepts under discussion. You seem to be making out that it is all far more complicated but I am not seeing how. The forum can, and has, discussed things in more depth as there are all sorts of logical problems and thought experiments to consider (Stuff like Pascal's Gambit, why God, or indeed God of some sect of Christianity (various the versions of Judaism and Islam, or indeed other "Christians" would probably claim to have the one true line on God's desires and wishes, most others faltering somewhere in their understanding), and not Thor, Zeus, Amaterasu, Vishnu or one of infinite other gods that are often mutually incompatible? If the god in question is all seeing and all powerful why is there suffering when it is trivial for it to stop it from happening? How can man be made in the image of the gods when a man has a shade under 180 degrees of vision in a narrow spectrum and does not probably know what happened on the spot they are on 400 years ago?)


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## notimp (Jul 27, 2019)

@FAST6191: Thank you for the clips, I laughed.  (Now continuing to watch them...  )


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## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Gods are a concept that a variety of religions...



You don't have to prove the existence of "God" because even if people are lied to about God, you have to deal with the influence of that... which will likely end up being more real than you or I.

It ends up that God is pretty important to self-described atheists.  It seems to preside over their lifestyle, or at least determine how they self-identify.  I think it's just another way of expressing "I am ungrateful for my ancestry."  Not really about God "existing" or not.  An atheist that is noisy about their identity is totally ironic.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 27, 2019)

tabzer said:


> God is pretty important to self-described atheists, no?  Seems to guide their lifestyle, or at least determine how they self-identify.  I think it's just another way of saying "I am ungrateful for my ancestry."


Gods/religion is a fairly important concept in modern and recorded history (possibly a bit before that as well depending upon how you want to look at things) and informs a lot of how law, morality and many people operate within the world. In that sense you could probably say many atheists find the god question, and its historical implications, important.
In terms of day to day living then it varies. Some people arrive at atheism having left religion and have to leave religious thought patterns behind (if you have been taught since youth that an all seeing sky daddy watches and considers everything you do can informs your mode of thought somewhat -- while I don't necessarily consider it correct there is the ever fun line of "no atheists in foxholes"). As people are arguably born atheist (some religions like to claim all people or the children of followers are born into them now and forever more and only later stray, others will try to claim them way before they can probably even talk, never mind make a legal contract) and religion has been of less and less importance for about 2 generations now in a lot of the west (I have a wonderful book from the late 30s, 40s and 50s in the US contemplating the fall of religion among the youth there) then a lot of people have never known religion or only experienced an ultra mild form of it, and thus have no consideration of sky daddy or overt sky daddy logic in their day to day lives.

As far as "I am ungrateful for my ancestry." goes then as much as one's ancestry is tied to a religion then OK. I don't particularly see how it is really all that tied to it (nor does that say why ancestors are worth venerating in this regard), or could be said to continue to serve a terribly useful purpose in the modern world -- we have cast aside all sorts of thoughts, beliefs and practices that our ancestors followed as time goes on. Indeed even belief in the single god (monotheism) is a relatively new concept so why is believing in, presumably Christian god, not an affront to the ancestors that believed in older concepts still or alternative ones that arose in parallel/independently?
Also how do you know said ancestors were not predominantly atheists, or free thinkers might be the better historical term? Even in places that were nominally Christianised the fringes of the place were often just that and only nominal, still doing pagan stuff underneath it all. A fun one being prior to the protestantism thing (itself a fun thing to contemplate, as is the rise of the Catholic church and eastern Orthodox church from earlier versions) some priest went up to a more rural part of Scotland and found the "Christian" people still doing unmistakably old school pagan fertility rites and rituals under the auspices of their supposedly otherwise Christian priest, and the history of Scandinavia is even better here still.


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## tabzer (Jul 27, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> the god question



Lol.  You are being pretentious.  Also, your edge is showing strong; I think you are demonstrating to be one of the most religious people here.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 27, 2019)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  You are being pretentious.  Also, your edge is showing strong; I think you are demonstrating to be one of the most religious people here.


I would say I am none of those.

I am probably one of the least religious people out there, as much as one can tell degrees of nothingness apart anyway.

As far as being edgy I would say that to anybody in any conversation, and have done (apparently since I was very young but different story there) for many years. I don't do it to offend or drop cause monocles to be dropped but as an intellectual exercise (forums being rather good for this sort of thing).

On the charge of being pretentious. I can't say I consider myself of any particular importance, and don't find myself attempting to assume a greater one than I have or otherwise impress with flashiness. To that end I am not sure why I attracted such a charge.


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## tabzer (Jul 28, 2019)

Your scripture is boring and self-gratifying.


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## IncredulousP (Jul 28, 2019)

blawar said:


> Most gamers are liberal because most gamers are young.  Young people generally start out liberal and become more conservative as they age.  Young people generally have this unrealistic rosey view of how the world *should* be, only to get slowly dosed with reality as  they age.


Actually this has been proven false. People tend to become more liberal as they get older.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 28, 2019)

tabzer said:


> Your scripture is boring and self-gratifying.



Their religion is one of edginess. Temperz think that by going against the grain of society they are some how more intelligent than other people hence the pretentiousness behind so many peoples posts on here. Many people on here have accomplished nothing in their lives and their only semblance of self esteem comes from a false sense of intellectual superiority. Notice how everyone here tries to talk with big words even though they aren't needed to convey their message. I've said this before and I will say it again, look at the thread where people post their IRL pictures and imagine those people looking down on others. It's nothing more than an inferiority complex and an emotional compensating defense mechanism to avoid inner feelings of worthlessness.


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## linuxares (Jul 28, 2019)

This is why we can't have nice things


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jul 28, 2019)

IncredulousP said:


> Actually this has been proven false. People tend to become more liberal as they get older.



Urm, I'm going to need a citation on that.


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## IncredulousP (Jul 28, 2019)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> Urm, I'm going to need a citation on that.


You're right, it means nothing without a citation. Going to find the article again, ignore it until then.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jul 28, 2019)

IncredulousP said:


> You're right, it means nothing without a citation. Going to find the article again, ignore it until then.



I'm absolutely willing to listen, particularly if there's evidence to back the assertion, but in my own experience people seem to become more conservative with age.


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## linuxares (Jul 28, 2019)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> I'm absolutely willing to listen, particularly if there's evidence to back the assertion, but in my own experience people seem to become more conservative with age.


Yeah all my old folks seem to get really conservative with age (atleast 50+ people...)


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jul 28, 2019)

linuxares said:


> Yeah all my old folks seem to get really conservative with age (atleast 50+ people...)



There are a few that do not fit that mold. I've met a lot of old Flower Children that were ultra-liberal in the 60s-70s, and they've kept that mindset through the decades, but they're more of an exception than a rule. 
But they're usually pretty interesting.


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## IncredulousP (Jul 28, 2019)

Some interesting articles from a cursory search:

https://www.livescience.com/2360-busting-myth-people-turn-liberal-age.html
https://www.seeker.com/do-people-become-more-conservative-as-they-age-1765596891.html
https://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-47910

Not quite related but this academic article states that higher education is linked to libertarianism as opposed to authoritarianism: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1468-4446.2008.00196.x

I'll try to dig up some more concrete sources of data that counter the concept of aging promoting conservative beliefs tomorrow.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jul 28, 2019)

IncredulousP said:


> Some interesting articles from a cursory search:
> I'll try to dig up some more concrete sources of data that counter the concept of aging promoting conservative beliefs tomorrow.


But I'm sure you're aware that I can produce as many sources that say just the opposite. 

I guess it doesn't actually matter in this thread. 
What we actually need is for @Maluma to explain where the divide is. Where does Conservative end and Liberal begin?


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## IncredulousP (Jul 28, 2019)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> But I'm sure you're aware that I can produce as many sources that say just the opposite.


By all means. In fact, some of the sources I posted show that as a trend they may become more conservative, not necessarily as a result of becoming more conservative with age, but rather a conservative generation once young becoming older.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 28, 2019)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> But I'm sure you're aware that I can produce as many sources that say just the opposite.
> 
> I guess it doesn't actually matter in this thread.
> What we actually need is for @Maluma to explain where the divide is. Where does Conservative end and Liberal begin?



That's a pretty difficult question to answer. I would have to ponder it for a bit before really being able to give a definitive response.I will say that I consider libertarians to be on the conservative side of things and even though I am not a libertarian myself I find it much easier to see things from the perspective of a libertarian than the perspective of a liberal. There was once a Republican candidate named Ron Paul that was a libertarian and I honestly could see where he was coming from with some of his views. I feel like younger liberals are only liberals because they have been indoctrinated into it and not because they actually understand the implications. It's one thing to agree to personal liberties like gay marriage and abortion. It's another thing to actually enjoy a structure where the government meddles in every aspect of your life and essentially has ownership over you as an individual.

I can understand why a person would have a libertarian political ideology but I just can't see eye to eye with liberals. I don't appreciate how the media force feeds narratives onto the population and makes them think that anyone that thinks otherwise is evil. This is the kind of strategy that communist used when they were in control where people would go to jail for expressing a negative opinion of communism or the government.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jul 28, 2019)

_grin_ Would you believe that you're speaking with a Libertarian that twice voted for Ron Paul, right now? 
I agree that we tend to be on the conservative side of things. 
The pendulum is ever-swinging. 

What I've seen over the years is that the youngest generation defies their elders. 
If your parents tend to be conservative, you would tend to be liberal, if for no other reason than to be different.


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## Deleted-401606 (Jul 28, 2019)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> _grin_ Would you believe that you're speaking with a Libertarian that twice voted for Ron Paul, right now?
> I agree that we tend to be on the conservative side of things.
> The pendulum is ever-swinging.
> 
> ...



This is a viewpoint that I can get behind and respect. Did you always hold these views or did you become a Libertarian as you got older?


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jul 28, 2019)

Maluma said:


> This is a viewpoint that I can get behind and respect. Did you always hold these views or did you become a Libertarian as you got older?



I was a liberal-leaning child (with pretty conservative parents) , but at the end of my teenage years, as most people do, I began to look around in disbelief and disgust as people that I had previously trusted in squandered my trust and openly lied to the public. (specifically B. Clinton) 
It took a number of years more before I realized that career politicians were generally in this game to further their own goals.


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## notimp (Jul 28, 2019)

Maluma said:


> This is a viewpoint that I can get behind and respect. Did you always hold these views or did you become a Libertarian as you got older?


Political views do change over time. You are not grandfathered in. Heck - in countries where there are more than two effective parties, you are even expected to maybe vote different parties at different elections.

Its only when you get old as stone, that you are expected to vote only the big conservative party statistically. And that might be - looking at the older generation - because it reminds you so much of the economic miracle they "were in charge producing (not really, but..  )" when they were younger.

In europe in quite a few countries, the socialist left party went from close to 50% to 12% voter base in only a few years. And they did so, because the conservative party moved so far to the left, that they had no talking points left (they never made new ones), that people cared about.

This is politics. Not - are you for the right side, and why are so many people for the wrong side.


If you should still be wondering, why so few hackers are actual conservatives, may I present you with this (not at all) historical piece, I just coincidently watched recently - that captures it:


click on Vimeo to watch it fullscreen

(Film is a callback to If... (1968) also with Malcolm McDowell and David Wood, which was an artfilm shortly before the 68 liberal revolution in britain at the time, ...  Watch it.  )
-

*Redacted*


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## Foxi4 (Jul 28, 2019)

The political alignment of the gamers you meet correlates more with the types of games you play than with anything else. Conservatives and Liberals appear to have very different interests, judging by Facebook data. There's an interesting article on the subject you can read by following the link below:

https://spacecommune.com/10-insights-on-gamers-political-views-according-to-facebook-data/

Take it with a pinch of salt since they're lumping fans of Ben Shapiro together with "alt right figures" which is a bit silly, but the graphs show general trends. Most gamers are indeed Liberal, but that probably has more to do with the fact that they're young and college-educated as well, I don't think gaming affects political alignment in and out of itself.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 28, 2019)

tabzer said:


> Your scripture is boring and self-gratifying.


I have never personally written any scripture, much less one I expect people to follow, and don't follow any either. Do you want to try that one again?



Maluma said:


> Their religion is one of edginess. Temperz think that by going against the grain of society they are some how more intelligent than other people hence the pretentiousness behind so many peoples posts on here. Many people on here have accomplished nothing in their lives and their only semblance of self esteem comes from a false sense of intellectual superiority. Notice how everyone here tries to talk with big words even though they aren't needed to convey their message. I've said this before and I will say it again, look at the thread where people post their IRL pictures and imagine those people looking down on others. It's nothing more than an inferiority complex and an emotional compensating defense mechanism to avoid inner feelings of worthlessness.



What religion? I have none, never had one. Neither did my parents. Neither did one set of grandparents and the others tried a whole bunch before settling on some pretty strange stuff well after my parent had reached the point where they could figure out their own path in life (one aunt following them into that one, the other 5 siblings never having anything). Looking around at school (various towns and cities in the UK for that one) when I was a kid then my particular circumstances were far from unique either. Society never mandated one or otherwise encouraged such things with some kind of perk (you are more likely to drum up business from a pub than a church, and said church types are probably in the pub as well), speaking of which:
Against the grain of society?
So according to nationwide surveys, and backed up by empirical data as far as church tax files, attendance rates and such more than half the UK population has no religion (even more so among the young) and no one strain of religion comes close to matching that. http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-28/religion.aspx (the full chapter download has lots of data, and data with respect to time). At this point being religious, much less of a particular religion, is the exception and the trend is going one way with respect to time. US Pew data on similar things I don't like as much (the questions it asks do worse for me when it comes to getting at the heart of things) but shows similar trends (albeit about 20 years behind Europe, something most attribute largely to that whole anti communist scare stuff, though geographical and economic are also factors I don't want to dismiss out of hand), and even then one would probably want to consider the US as far from homogeneous in this regard (the classic "does it touch Water or Canada" thing, with the possible exception of Texas, though even then if I look at the cities there). https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/ if you wanted it though and a nice video discussing it
 

Can't say the rest applies to me. It could apply to some around here but I would not assume it a general case.


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## tabzer (Jul 28, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> have never personally written any scripture, much less one I expect people to follow, and don't follow any either. Do you want to try that one again?


I'm referring to your walls of text, smarty-pants.  How can someone that thinks of themselves to be so smart be so dull/dimwitted?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 28, 2019)

tabzer said:


> I'm referring to your walls of text, smarty-pants.  How can someone that thinks of themselves to be so smart be so dull/dimwitted?


I have been known to do walls of text but in this thread I have not gone over about 5 paragraphs (fairly short ones at that) per post, especially not when replying to parts of the thread you were in and we were engaging.

To that end you are once more invited to try that one again, or perhaps take an example post of mine and show me where I so rubbed you the wrong way with my word choice, formatting or whatever. Better yet maybe engage with the arguments put forth within them.


----------



## tabzer (Jul 28, 2019)

You asking me to quote your scripture now?  "The god question" is all about you, and I said it was pretentious.  You are pretentious.  The way you talk is like somebody who loves to hear themselves talk.  You are free to tell everyone how to approach the subject, but you won't give an iota of insight to an inconvenient claim.  Almost as if you were a reflection of the typical Christian hypocrite.  Everything you say is built on distinguishing yourself, but you are just doing the same kind of pseudo-intellectualism your "religion" is built against.  Ironic and then some.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 28, 2019)

tabzer said:


> You asking me to quote your scripture now?  "The god question" is all about you, and I said it was pretentious.  You are pretentious.  The way you talk is like somebody who loves to hear themselves talk.  You are free to tell everyone how to approach the subject, but you won't give an iota of insight to an inconvenient claim.  Almost as if you were a reflection of the typical Christian hypocrite.  Everything you say is built on distinguishing yourself, but you are just doing the same kind of pseudo-intellectualism your "religion" is built against.  Ironic and then some.


I was at a loss as to what you found so upsetting about my phrasing, word choice or whatever else. Now I have some idea of the objections I can address them. Feels odd that I would have to try to justify such things but I am OK with that.

The god question is a fairly standard philosophical phrase and category of philosophy on both major sides of the debate ( https://www.amazon.com/God-Question-Invitation-Life-Meaning/dp/0736924884 for an example of someone using it as a framework to plump for the Christian god, I am presuming I don't need to demonstrate the opposite) and I would contend was used neutrally (I would have gone with the god delusion were I intending to speak down to people).
As far as distinguishing myself I don't see it. I tried to respond to the questions posed by the person I quoted/was discussing with, in this case with a few questions that I would hold as troubling the foundation of the arguments put forth, something that rather goes against your narrative of not giving an "iota of insight to an inconvenient claim". I probably did not need to go too much into the further contemplations part there but was kind of hoping if you were intending on debate that we could skip the basics and get to the juicy stuff if we first don't have to dismiss such triteness as Pascal's Wager/gambit.
On the charge of pseudo intellectualism then I would contend it is straight intellectualism, nothing pseudo about it. I am maybe not the best at philosophy of this nature (spent far more time contemplating the nature of metals instead) but I reckon I can give it a fair shake. Once more I don't have a religion, though if you are going to deem atheism a religion despite words meaning the opposite of that then it has no tenets beyond the lack of a god as religions have defined the concept controlling everything/being responsible for everything, everything as far as morals go after that is up to the individual.

Now if you want a trite phrase then you are attacking the man* rather than the arguments put forth. Is that really a way to win an argument, much less one you would care to use?

*something that is happily dismissed in this case with "am not".


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## tabzer (Jul 28, 2019)

I'm not reading your pretentious bs dude.  It's tired and uninspired.  You can subscribe and smash the like button on anything you choose.  You are still a follower.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 28, 2019)

tabzer said:


> I'm not reading your pretentious bs dude.  It's tired and uninspired.  You can subscribe and smash the like button on anything you choose.  You are still a follower.


Hey man, you feeling okay? This is not in anyway me trying to bother you, but have you considered speaking to a doctor about how you feel?


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## tabzer (Jul 28, 2019)

And who are you?


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## Searinox (Jul 28, 2019)

I honestly don't even understand this "liberal" label. It's like in the past 10 years facts, compassion and common sense have become increasingly "liberal" things and lies and shitty attitudes have rebranded themselves as "conservatism". Why are we even debating these things in 2019? And yes I do go to the vote with my worldview.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 28, 2019)

Searinox said:


> I honestly don't even understand this "liberal" label. It's like in the past 10 years facts, compassion and common sense have become increasingly "liberal" things and lies and shitty attitudes have rebranded themselves as "conservatism". Why are we even debating these things in 2019?


For some it is a smear word. For others it describes a philosophical outlook and outlook on the nature of government, personal freedoms and other things. Others note the lack of universality to it; the more recent western Europe + whatever colonies were left over circa 1950 and US divide already covered, as well as more classical divides in philosophy*. Never mind what we are supposed to do about the Australian liberal party (the more right wing government party there).
Going further (and covered in that video I posted above linky because why not, and satirised somewhat in the one following that) is there are aspects to it all as well with regards to said governmental roles, economics and personal liberty/culture that some already mentioned, and where you can adopt a blend of whatever you like really (it is quite possible to be culturally liberal but economically conservative, or vice versa, or centrist for one or more of those, or quite extremely into one or more of those).

*I quite like the following as a brief overview of history here, this guy frequently has quite good videos on the nature of/options for governing things and philosophies if you are after long form content


As you mention the last 10 years has also seen a bit of a shift, especially in US politics (while the left side of things is probably more notable at this point the right is not without shifts either). This leads some to more readily adopt it as a smear word, or just see things are very distant from positions they have long held and used to be able to readily debate with the nominal opposite side and lean into their positions more lest things "slip further" as it were.

For my money I would agree the US right wing appears to have an almost opposition to anything other than free market economics ensuring everything but borders and maybe roads (even there you can still find some that would oppose that) keep working, except they don't in practice and the almost callous indifference it appears to portray is not there, or at least is somewhat out of sight rather than at the fore. This makes dealing with things somewhat odd as we often lack a common vocabulary or understanding but we can but try.


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## tabzer (Jul 28, 2019)

@FAST6191

I am not posing an argument.  I am not interested in proving the existence of god or the giving way for disbelief in god, because I view both of those to be two sides of the same coin, both centered around the subject of "god" as the foundation of theosophy.  Just because you think atheism wholly rejects god (it doesn't; it can't) does not mean it is not pursued religiously by those who identify themselves as such.  You already demonstrate this.

God is a word, and to different people that word has a different impact/meaning.  There is no authority of god, so finding any credible source on the topic is dubious.  If you believe that someone can be an authority about god, then you have deemed that person to be a suitable representative of god, which especially underlines the irony of not believing in god in the first place. 

This makes me think about the subject of liberals and politicians.  I grew up liberal, but I never trusted politicians to know or do better than I would.  It's one thing to be compassionate, but to force others to "be compassionate" is an anti-thesis.  With politicians, mediation becomes coercion, and anything that was meaningful for a liberal is lost.  Liberals can seem stupid and/or crazy if they actually believe there is a political party that represents their ideals.  Ideally, everybody is able to represent themselves in a just society.  But people are opportunists, especially politicians.  Liberal politicians seem to be the most dishonest/inconsistent kind.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 28, 2019)

tabzer said:


> @FAST6191
> 
> I am not posing an argument.  I am not interested in proving the existence of god or the giving way for disbelief in god, because I view both of those to be two sides of the same coin, both centered around the subject of "god" as the foundation of theosophy.  Just because you think atheism wholly rejects god (it doesn't; it can't) does not mean it is not pursued religiously by those who identify themselves as such.  You already demonstrate this.
> 
> God is a word, and to different people that word has a different impact/meaning.  There is no authority of god, so finding any credible source on the topic is dubious.  If you believe that someone can be an authority about god, then you have deemed that person to be a suitable representative of god, which especially underlines the irony of not believing in god in the first place.



Atheism is generally said to be the rejection of god and gods. Said gods being supernatural beings with, or once with, enormous power to shape reality beyond what which physics would say is possible, or with such knowledge of the state of things as to effectively be so (hard to record the information of the universe with just the contents of the universe, never mind the apparent randomness of quantum mechanics, and thus back to supernatural)
Some go a bit further and coin agnosticism as the general rejection of existing attempts by religions and thinkers to define a god's scope, origins, meanings and relevance to individual or societal philosophy but not preclude there from ever being one. Whether the complete rejection of deities poses a logical problem (worse if we invoke probabilities) could be debated a bit if you want but it seems like something that can be claimed as being done.

If you have more apt words then please do share as those concepts seem worth having some kind of word to describe, as opposed to stating it every time.

Similarly not every religion requires a god, or supernatural force, at its foundation. Some look at Buddhism here, and we also have the ever fun "I am not religious but I am spiritual" thing to unpack.

There are certainly atheists that take great pains to effect some kind of society (local or otherwise) change. You then get terms, possibly misnomers, like militant atheist or antitheist (sometimes seen as antitheistic atheist) as a result, to say nothing of the atheism+ debacle. Many of those do share a common cause of ridding the world of religious practice (or the big examples and obvious offshoots), religious influence upon the law, religious practice upon education and religious practice upon general thoughts of morality and philosophy, and can be seen cooperating in those goals. This is not all of them though, and said cooperation may well be more mutual or pragmatic than born of logical agreement on things. You might also find a great many, especially among those that will talk about it, share a fondness for logic, rationality, observation, testing and all that flows from that, but it is not a requirement.

The nature of god and gods is also a fun one and the line you had there about credible sources is much what would be written about them by me, and part of the reason why I give so little credence to the concept. The classic one being how do I know Jesus a) existed, b) if he did was not just a crazy guy or charlatan, c) said what he purportedly said, d) had that transcribed accurately, and e) had said transcription accurately kept, translated and with enough context* such that a major or minor take on the concept is still around, useful and accurate today (most takes on Christianity having huge incompatibilities with one another). Someone might have their own take or meaning but if said take puts you at odds with historical, current and likely future leaders of the faith, their adherents and things they and their works claim as essential to practising -- the major takes on Christianity would have major issues calling god an abstract concept to deal with apparent nature of the universe, though it seems there are those that would claim they are religious but have no god belief). I would also not say you grant a person an authority -- could still have been someone that "was there, man" to witness it.

I would also agree it has different personal meanings to people but much like one can believe their wife to be the most beautiful woman in the world and it be true as it is a statement of their own mind but the nature of a god is a statement of the universe, which I live in and thus have a stake. To that end I will refer back to the definitions given above pending better suggestions for such words or reasons on why. The natures/abilities of said gods vary to minor and major degrees between religions and versions of them, new ones can be cooked up and and other edge cases created but as a linguistic, philosophical, historical and sociological phenomenon there is enough there to pose a definition, one that can in turn be rejected as being at least part of the fundamental force of the universe or possessing powers/traits not expected within it.

*the whole rich man and eye of the needle thing some tell me instead refers not to the literal trouble of getting a dromedary through an item designed to get thin thread through material but instead having to unload a beast of burden through a particular gate in a particular town in the holy land where the stories are set. Now I have seen a camel because I went to a zoo, someone 300 years might not have. Neither of us would however know what it was like to have a camel as our means of sustenance in a cold and unpleasant world; I have a van if I need to move hundreds of kilograms hundreds of kilometres with for less work than walking there myself, or indeed for the monetary equivalent of a few hours of effort, to say nothing of plentiful enough food for me to probably be notably taller, more educated and stronger than said camel man, to say nothing of xrays, surgery, painkillers and antibiotics when I decide to drop it all on my leg.


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## Nino_Z (Jul 28, 2019)

I hate the fact that political correctness and sjw bullshit is being pushed onto the gaming community.


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## subcon959 (Jul 29, 2019)

Nino_Z said:


> I hate the fact that political correctness and sjw bullshit is being pushed onto the gaming community.


We don't have to accept it though.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Jul 30, 2019)

subcon959 said:


> We don't have to accept it though.


it strikes me as odd that bigger forms of corruption are less of a concern in the video game industry.


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## subcon959 (Jul 30, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> it strikes me as odd that bigger forms of corruption are less of a concern in the video game industry.


I think the concern is still there but it's just not the current particular trend to oppose.


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## notimp (Aug 5, 2019)

notimp said:


> If you should still be wondering, why so few hackers are actual conservatives, may I present you with this (not at all) historical piece, I just coincidently watched recently - that captures it:
> 
> 
> click on Vimeo to watch it fullscreen
> ...



Now this is a case, where it urks me, that this video still has zero views (according to vimeo).

I really shouldnt care, but this time I do.

Because to me it shows me one thing. People dont care about finding stuff out about the issue at hand at all.

Premise:

Conservative majorities, ruled the world for the past x decades. They've build most of the structures we know as society today. The last time we saw a liberal 'uprising' (small, nonviolent revolution), that actually worked, and changed societies for a while was in 1968.

Now - if I give you 'documentaries' about what happened at that time - they won't do it justice. I couldnt even conceptualize how to produce one of those, that would actually kind of show what happened at the time (in a few short words, the youth rebelling against their parents generation, after there was set up a continuity of power after WW2 - in germany especially, for obvious reasons, but also in UK and other parts of the world).

But there are a few films in the artsy independent genre that were made around the time, that kind of do.

If you are interested in that stuff, then look at those.

But if you are just a person that wants their ego to be stroked, and doesnt look at anything on the internet if you identify a font treatment, that isnt from the youtube age - you make this a thread about your feels and nothing else.

If you don't want to learn a thing or two - why make this threads at all? Go on facebook, farm some likes by talking about your feels over situational pseudo political newsstories.

What - the video doesnt have someone faking excitement on the cover image, so you dont watch?

Again, I shouldnt care about people not watching something that took me 3 minutes to cut together - but in this case - I strangely do.

Probably, because millennials and gen z'ers are turning out to become the most conservative generations out there yet, because they self optimize for online likes, and don't even question established social structures at all - when changing them would actually mean that they don't have insta majorities on social media from minute one.

Liberal in sensibilities, but never in action, right?

edit: Also - because I know from experience, that you never click through to a source story - because that takes too much time out of your day - and you were conditioned to scroll neverending social feeds, and not to actually gather sources, that werent youtubers - here, have a link:
h**ps://vimeo.com/350550464

Otherwise I woulndt have a chance in hell - that you clicked the video, even after expressing wide spread disillusionment.

Again - once more, just for good measure - you create all those threads, to stroke your feels, not because you actually would want to learn a thing.

And if you think that this is unfair - let us hear one aspect you think you have learned from this thread so far.

Come on - make this a little exercise to see how much you take away from participating in 'political discussion' every day.

Oh - too provocative? Doesnt get you any like in the instagram world, so you don't like? Here, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offending_the_Audience

Oh how strange, that one also premiered around 1968.


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## NoNAND (Aug 5, 2019)

sometimes I wonder why does this sub-forum even exist.
At some point a few are right about video games.
Excessive gaming for long periods of time is a waste of time.


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## PityOnU (Aug 5, 2019)

ITT: "Identity politics"

/end thread


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## Bimmel (Aug 5, 2019)

Because I've read this a couple of times: "Political stuff? Leave my games out of this!"

How naive.. everything is political. You can't escape you fools.


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## notimp (Aug 9, 2019)

Strong recommendation to watch:

Portillo The Trouble With The Tories S01E01
Portillo The Trouble With The Tories S01E02

(Current time piece on the state of the conservative party in the UK.)


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## plasturion (Aug 9, 2019)

Conservatism shouldn't be a poclitical party, but the normal attitude of every decent person. (Nicolás Gómez Dávila)
Some his qoutes are interesting, usually I find more on english wiki, this time is opposite so i share. Enjoy.
https://translate.google.pl/transla....org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_G%C3%B3mez_D%C3%A1vila


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## Josshy0125 (Aug 9, 2019)

plasturion said:


> Conservatism shouldn't be a poclitical party, but the normal attitude of every decent person. (Nicolás Gómez Dávila)
> Some his qoutes are interesting, usually I find more on english wiki, this time is opposite so i share. Enjoy.
> https://translate.google.pl/translate?hl=pl&sl=pl&tl=en&u=https://pl.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_G%C3%B3mez_D%C3%A1vila


Thats like saying "we should all be raciest". Super dumb. The normal, unbiased train of existence should be liberal; accepting change, (and heres a HUGE part of it, that conservatives don't agree with...) accepting EVERYONE the way they are, and not saying things like "gay people shouldnt be married because it *affects me personally l*", as conservatives, in the "usual sense" tend to believe. So no, what youve written is absolutely  ridiculous  and stupid.


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## DuoForce (Aug 9, 2019)

Degeneracy.


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## plasturion (Aug 9, 2019)

Sorry then, I didn't mean too. I read that quote only as example of aesthetic lifestyle.


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## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Aug 9, 2019)

Conservatives tend to lean more toward separating their entertainment from politics, where left-leaners inject politics into entertainment. You think gamers are Liberal because they talk about politics in gaming circles, but the Conservatives keep their mouths shut about it.


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## Retro_Mod_Gamer (Aug 10, 2019)

Trumps comments about video games were DUMB AF. Pretty typical for Boomers to say something like that TBH, let's not forget who championed the ESRB in the early 90's.


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## ital (Mar 10, 2022)

Interesting topic.

What constitutes attractiveness? Apparently, not liberalism.

Liberal men find themselves in a strange predicament: they’re less enticing to even the die-hard feminists they’re constantly trying to please.

Science has a say on the issue. A study published earlier this year by political scientist Rolfe Daus Peterson found that conservatives of both genders are generally more attractive than their liberal counterparts. As expected, the left-leaning researchers concluded the politics stem from the looks: attractive people feel good about themselves and, as a result, are less inclined to social programs that help the needy.

Despite the talk by p**sy hat-wearing women calling right-wing men “patriarchal fascists,” there’s a discrepancy between what they_ say_ they want and what they _really_ want.

A poll from a dating site that focused on wealthier women a few years back discovered an inconvenient truth: 76.6 percent of Democrat women surveyed said they “would prefer to date a conservative man.”

Some notable comments from the participants:

“I want to be with a man who is ambitious, liberal men simply aren’t as ambitious.”

“Conservative men plan for the future, they’re in it for the long run.”

“Liberal men are less masculine.”


 You couldn't make this up!


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