# Donald Trump announces he has COVID-19



## Nickp2517 (Oct 2, 2020)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

So scary and disturbing. I am hoping he and Melanie pull through this


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## MikaDubbz (Oct 2, 2020)

I suppose that's what you get when you try and downplay the virus, hold massive indoor events right now, and only rarely actually wear a mask.

Though the cynic in me has me wondering if this is a calculated lie, so he can pop back up 2 days later say he's better than ever and it was no big deal, and then use that as supposed proof that the dangers of this virus has been blown out of proportion.


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## Veho (Oct 2, 2020)

I don't believe him.


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## MikaDubbz (Oct 2, 2020)

Veho said:


> I don't believe him.


I certainly doubt him, but he has definitely put himself in more than enough scenarios to reasonably have gotten it by now. It's more than feasible that this is real, all the same, I have my doubts.


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## Osakasan (Oct 2, 2020)

On one hand, i'm laughting my ass off and wishing him to suffer every single symptom under the sun

On the other, i can't shake the feeling that he's lying and this is just a ploy to downlay the virus and get more votes.


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## KingVamp (Oct 2, 2020)

Pretty sad times, when people have to question if a president is actually sick or not.

I doubt it, but if this is actually a lie, how big would the fallout be if he was caught?


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## Osakasan (Oct 2, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Pretty sad times, when people have to question if a president is actually sick or not.
> 
> I doubt it, but if this is actually a lie, how big would the fallout be if he was caught?



In spain we got something similar from an alt-right party that basically denied the virus importance/mortality

So yeah, i can get behind the orange cheeto just lying.


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## mehrab2603 (Oct 2, 2020)

I hope he or members of his team did not give it to Biden on the debate night. I doubt Biden will survive the virus if he gets it.


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## regnad (Oct 2, 2020)

mehrab2603 said:


> I hope he or members of his team did not give it to Biden on the debate night. I doubt Biden will survive the virus if he gets it.



Who's to say Trump will? He's got three risk factors: he's elderly, he's obese, and he's low income.


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## console (Oct 2, 2020)

Yes. I saw on news. That's scary. Not sure if will happen to him and his wife maybe going to die in few weeks due to virus. If he and his wife are passed away then too bad after this news release out.

I think Biden is going to win over Trump.


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## wartutor (Oct 2, 2020)

mehrab2603 said:


> I hope he or members of his team did not give it to Biden on the debate night. I doubt Biden will survive the virus if he gets it.


For some reason i dont think this would be a bad thing...hell may of been the plan the whole time, give it to myself before the debate  to take out the competition


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## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

If Trump doesn't end up hospitalized, his first order of business after recovery will be to spin his diagnosis into a positive, that the virus was no match for his powerful immune system which proves that he's the fittest president in history.  I could also see him questioning the effectiveness of masks since wearing one in his pocket didn't help him.


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## zxr750j (Oct 2, 2020)

Poor Covid...


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## TimPV3 (Oct 2, 2020)

LOL but he was taking _*hydroxychloroquine*_!


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## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Bwaahahaha.

Heres another news source (with a live update ticker):
https://www.dw.com/en/donald-trump-tests-positive-for-covid-19-live-updates/a-55129504


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## eyeliner (Oct 2, 2020)

regnad said:


> Who's to say Trump will? He's got three risk factors: he's elderly, he's obese, and he's low income.


Post of the day. Bravo!


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## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

eyeliner said:


> Post of the day. Bravo!



I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of this copypasta over the next couple of weeks:

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/c..._president_donald_trump_announces_he/g7df1mp/


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## The Catboy (Oct 2, 2020)

Well well well- if it isn’t the consequences of his own actions


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## ghjfdtg (Oct 2, 2020)

No one should wish anyone else death. He deserves a lesson though.


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

Veho said:


> I don't believe him.





MikaDubbz said:


> I certainly doubt him, but he has definitely put himself in more than enough scenarios to reasonably have gotten it by now. It's more than feasible that this is real, all the same, I have my doubts.


i SAW TRUMP vs BIDEN debate, when the orange man was questioned that how he has only 600k declaired income tax in last fiscal year, Guess what? Trump is able to look into ur eyes and lie straight as an Innocent.


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## DJPlace (Oct 2, 2020)

well he may die with out getting shot by a bullet? (i know that was harsh but i had to say it has a joke)


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## Chary (Oct 2, 2020)

The internet loves to cry out for blood when it comes to someone they don’t like. But regardless of anything Trump has done, no one should wish a man and his wife die tragically to this virus. 

But, honestly, Trump really did nothing to avoid getting COVID. All his mask hate earned him this, from his own incompetence. Given how he didn’t wear masks and was blasé about the existence of the virus, well, I doubt he’s actually lying. BoJo getting COVID and recovering didn’t really change much, did it? In terms of anti-maskers. 

I guess we’ll see where the soap opera level dramatics of 2020’s plot line takes us.


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## D34DL1N3R (Oct 2, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> No one should wish anyone else death.





Chary said:


> But regardless of anything Trump has done, no one should wish a man and his wife die tragically to this virus.



I haven't seen anyone say anything of the sort. At least not here. But I'm 100% positive there are posts of the sort flooding other places. I do agree though, in that despite how much I can NOT stand the guy, I do not wish death upon him.


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## Nightwish (Oct 2, 2020)

Thoughts and prayers he lives long enough for the indictments.


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

Chary said:


> The internet loves to cry out for blood when it comes to someone they don’t like. But regardless of anything Trump has done, no one should wish a man and his wife die tragically to this virus.
> 
> But, honestly, Trump really did nothing to avoid getting COVID. All his mask hate earned him this, from his own incompetence. Given how he didn’t wear masks and was blasé about the existence of the virus, well, I doubt he’s actually lying. BoJo getting COVID and recovering didn’t really change much, did it? In terms of anti-maskers.
> 
> I guess we’ll see where the soap opera level dramatics of 2020’s plot line takes us.


SOMEHOW i can't agree with you: American simply consider anyone who's not Allied with USA as enemies, thus Trump ordered assassination of Iranian general and always was Trump, ordered to kidnap HUAWEI's founder's daughter as Hostage to negotiate 5G deal.
And *if he vowed the general public to wear masks back at feb 2020, nearly 95% of people who died cauz corona would be still alive.*

Trust me, who gave USA the right to bomb other people's land and their people? GOD??? *If he exists, he would puked.
Trump is nothing but greedy power hunger and would do anything to bring advantage to his side.*
With all shits The couple did, dying to CORONA would be the most *mercifull *ending they could ever get.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 2, 2020)

I've got to be honest : I'm more sorry for Melania and Hope Hicks (his assistent who also tested positive)  than for Donald himself. For him, I just wish he gets sick enough to take the virus serious... But not more than that. 


regnad said:


> Who's to say Trump will? He's got three risk factors: he's elderly, he's obese, and *he's low income*.


Nice one. 
Oh, and as an encore: He's also a person of color.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

leon315 said:


> And *if he vowed the general public to wear masks back at feb 2020, nearly 95% of people who died cauz corona would be still alive.*




Speculation. 

And you're going back to February?? Isn't that when Pelosi and Deblasio were still telling people to go on with life as-normal, and Democrats were saying that Trump was racist and xenophobic for imposing his overreaction travel ban?

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/
https://ny.eater.com/2020/3/11/21175497/coronavirus-nyc-restaurants-safe-dine-out

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/02...obic-travel-ban-punishes-americans-above-all/
https://dc.medill.northwestern.edu/...hobic-and-xenophobic-civil-rights-groups-say/
https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/biden-trumps-coronavirus-response-is-nakedly-xenophobic/


And when Fauci was still advising against wearing masks.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-doesnt-regret-advising-against-masks-early-in-pandemic-2020-7


But you now say the President should have DICTATED a nationwide mask mandate back in February. And that this would have saved 95% of the people. Uh-huh. Even if the President had done that and the result was as you suggest, Democrats would now be saying the low number of deaths was just proof that it was all over nothing and an overreaction. Never let a crisis go to waste.


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Speculation.
> 
> And you're going back to February?? Isn't that when Pelosi and Deblasio were still telling people to go on with life as-normal, and Democrats were saying that Trump was racist and xenophobic for imposing his overreaction travel ban?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't turn this Nick's topic into another meaningless political debate, beside all others things he did are unquestionable facts, but wearing masks?
There's literally tons of footage on Youtube that Trump always tried to minimize COVID nothing as Kung-flu or ordinary flu and never had his MAGA supporters or other citizen to wear masks. LMFAO
Dr. Fauci is just another ceremonial sheep offered as shield to public opinions.
I didn't provide any sources, cauz there are just plenty in the wild, just look it urself.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

leon315 said:


> I wouldn't turn this Nick's topic into another meanless political debate, beside all others things he did are unquestionable facts, but wearing masks?
> There's literally tons of footage on Youtube that Trump always tried to minimize COVID nothing as Kung-flu or ordinary fly and never had his MAGA supporters or other citizen to wear masks. LMFAO
> Dr. Fauci is just another cerimonial sheep offered as shield to public opinions.
> I didn't provide any sources, cauz there are just plenty in the wild, just look it urself.



Not debating any of that. Just pointing out that a claim like "95% would have survived if he'd just done this one thing" is a bunch of crap.

The Covid19 virus is bad news, but keeping it in perspective it has produced a total death toll in this year about 3-4 times the usual death toll from flu in any given year at most (and it'll be interesting to see the number of regular flu deaths for 2020, as I suspect it'll be unusually low since they're all getting bundled with Covid). Preventative safety measures are good, within reason. But viruses eventually work their way around to everyone and don't really ever go away, so we're mostly just slowing the burn. The flu strain that killed a million worldwide in 1968-69 is still active.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

Even though Trump is obese and older the odds of him surviving are greater than of him dying. COVID has an overall 99.8% survival rate and most people that get it don't even get sick. I also keep hearing people say Trump is low income, which is stupid because he makes $400,000 a year that he chooses to give away to charities. The odds are Trump isn't going anywhere.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Hanafuda said:


> Speculation.
> 
> And you're going back to February?? Isn't that when Pelosi and Deblasio were still telling people to go on with life as-normal, and Democrats were saying that Trump was racist and xenophobic for imposing his overreaction travel ban?
> 
> ...



People love to blame Trump for not doing enough back in January, but everything he was doing was getting him called a "racist" from the other side while they didn't do jackshit. The only thing the Liberals were concerned with was impeaching the President. So if one side is actively implementing policies to mitigate the virus and the other side is doing nothing about it, which side did more? (Hint for the dense - The Liberals are more guilty then Trump).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



leon315 said:


> I wouldn't turn this Nick's topic into another meanless political debate, beside all others things he did are unquestionable facts, but wearing masks?
> There's literally tons of footage on Youtube that Trump always tried to minimize COVID nothing as Kung-flu or ordinary flu and never had his MAGA supporters or other citizen to wear masks. LMFAO
> Dr. Fauci is just another cerimonial sheep offered as shield to public opinions.
> I didn't provide any sources, cauz there are just plenty in the wild, just look it urself.



At the start of things COVID mess the so called self proclaimed "experts" at the CDC and WHO told everyone that masks don't work and then both agencies put out conflicting information every single week. If you're going to blame the source of the problems it would be wise to include why people don't trust these agencies instead of the normal TDS bullshit "orange man bad". You'd think someone that was to blame for everything that happens wrong in everyone's life would be so powerful he was actually responsible for it. You need to get over your delusions while I get back to anticipating another great 4 years with Trump as the President.


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## Chains (Oct 2, 2020)

He'll just hold virtual rallies from now on, lol. But in all seriousness, he refused to take basic precautions against the infection, he refused to allow his staff to do so, same goes for his family. I'm mildly surprised that it took this long for him to catch corona-chan.


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## templeofhylia (Oct 2, 2020)

the joy this brings me tho


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> At the start of things COVID mess the so called self proclaimed "experts" at the CDC and WHO told everyone that masks don't work and then both agencies put out conflicting information every single week. If you're going to blame the source of the problems it would be wise to include why people don't trust these agencies instead of the normal TDS bullshit "orange man bad". You'd think someone that was to blame for everything that happens wrong in everyone's life would be so powerful he was actually responsible for it. You need to get over your delusions while I get back to anticipating another great 4 years with Trump as the President.


yes indeed!, i believe Trump within the years to come, he will build another Great Wall in Portland and Chicago, just to keep violent Blacks, Mexicans and other minorilties out from Whites, and minolities even gonna pay for it?


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## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

leon315 said:


> yes indeed!, i believe Trump within the years to come, he will build another Great Wall in Portland and Chicago, just to keep violent Blacks, Mexicans and other minorilties out from Whites, and minolities even gonna pay for it?



You think you're funny, but I'm not the one that thinks the entire Republican party are sheep that hang on Trump's every last word. The only person responsible for your problems is you. The things that you choose to do or choose not to do are your choices. You are the only one responsible for your actions. Unlike the Liberals that cling to every word and need direction from their leadership Conservatives make their own choices based on their own personal experiences and common sense. They don't sit around and blame a single man for things they simply don't like in their lives that they have control over and he does not. Grow up.


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## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Not debating any of that. Just pointing out that a claim like "95% would have survived if he'd just done this one thing" is a bunch of crap.
> 
> The Covid19 virus is bad news, but keeping it in perspective *it has produced a total death toll in this year about 3-4 times the usual death toll from flu* in any given year at most (and it'll be interesting to see the number of regular flu deaths for 2020, as I suspect it'll be unusually low since they're all getting bundled with Covid). Preventative safety measures are good, within reason. But viruses eventually work their way around to everyone and don't really ever go away, so we're mostly just slowing the burn. The flu strain that killed a million worldwide in 1968-69 is still active.


How do you figure?  Estimated influenza deaths in the United States averages out to 36k annually:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Covid19's death toll is already over 200k with some estimates having it surpassing 400k by the end of the year.


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## Axido (Oct 2, 2020)

Chary said:


> The internet loves to cry out for blood when it comes to someone they don’t like. But regardless of anything Trump has done, no one should wish a man and his wife die tragically to this virus.
> 
> But, honestly, Trump really did nothing to avoid getting COVID. All his mask hate earned him this, from his own incompetence. Given how he didn’t wear masks and was blasé about the existence of the virus, well, I doubt he’s actually lying. BoJo getting COVID and recovering didn’t really change much, did it? In terms of anti-maskers.
> 
> I guess we’ll see where the soap opera level dramatics of 2020’s plot line takes us.



What about being curious about how his suggested cures work on himself?
I mean, right now would be the perfect moment to test the effectiveness of cleansing the body with disinfectant. Has anyone looked into that already?

After all, that's what he suggested himself.


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## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Even though Trump is obese and older the odds of him surviving are greater than of him dying. *COVID has an overall 99.8% survival rate* and most people that get it don't even get sick. I also keep hearing people say Trump is low income, which is stupid because he makes $400,000 a year that he chooses to give away to charities. The odds are Trump isn't going anywhere.


Where did you come up with this figure?  Influenza has a 99.9% survival rate.  Your estimate suggests that Covid19 is only 2x as deadly as influenza, which sounds too good to be true.


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> You think you're funny, but I'm not the one that thinks the entire Republican party are sheep that hang on Trump's every last word. The only person responsible for your problems is you. The things that you choose to do or choose not to do are your choices. You are the only one responsible for your actions. Unlike the Liberals that cling to every word and need direction from their leadership Conservatives make their own choices based on their own personal experiences and common sense. They don't sit around and blame a single man for things they simply don't like in their lives that they have control over and he does not. Grow up.


Yes, and i like making trump jokes too, plus he already spent Billions of American taxpayers money to build Mexican wall, It's highly probable he would do the same with minorities.

I LIVE IN EU, honestly i don't really give shit how american election goes.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> How do you figure?  Estimated influenza deaths in the United States averages out to 36k annually:
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
> 
> Covid19's death toll is already over 200k with some estimates having it surpassing 400k by the end of the year.




*Estimates* on annual flu deaths are all over the place. 12,000 to 60,000 a year. And every year is different. Very different, as in these things aren't that reliable. As you say, it 'averages out' to 36k, but since annual flu season is not typically politicized those numbers are not conflated so much by other related causes. Flu deaths are flu deaths. Pneumonia deaths are pneumonia deaths. With the Covid totals being reported, almost everyone involved also had other conditions, especially pneumonia. But they all died a "Covid-related" death.

If you look at this, the deaths from flu in 2017-2018 were 61,000.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html









But if you check this page on Covid19-related deaths, the flue deaths for this year are only 6,700. And that's with or without Covid19 and/or pneumonia. *Where did they all go???*
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm


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## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Where did you come up with this figure?  Influenza has a 99.9% survival rate.  Your estimate suggests that Covid19 is only 2x as deadly as influenza, which sounds too good to be true.



The death statistics keep changing, but the general figures are that 99.8% of people who get infected don't die and that is calculated for overall infections as that number does decrease with age. Here's one of many articles that has recent figures in it.






https://www.tampabay.com/news/flori...to-full-capacity-as-florida-moves-to-phase-3/
*
Edit: *I want to mention that the more people who get tested the more the percentage of deaths goes down. The reason we see more spikes of infections is not because more people are getting infected, it's because we have more testing. It just shows that most people already had COVID and didn't even know it as they didn't get sick nor have any lingering symptoms. For most people COVID isn't really a big deal.

Only a small percentage get hospitalized, and out of that small percentage only a few die. Then out of that few they are mostly older people with pre-existing conditions. So you see the death rate is really low. I don't think we have anything to worry about regarding Trump, but I'm not a genie and can tell the future. I just hope he doesn't get sick and die, but if he does my vote will simply go to Pence. Pence seems like an okay guy.


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## KingVamp (Oct 2, 2020)

Joe seems to be alright.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

leon315 said:


> Yes, and i like making trump jokes too, plus he already spent Billions of American taxpayers money to build Mexican wall, It's highly probable he would do the same with minolities.



If you've been paying attention for the last 30 some years most politicians that put out campaign promises never come through with most of them, but with Trump, who's not a politician, he's come through with most of his. I agree that Mexico didn't straight out hand over a check for the wall, but that's unrealistic thinking on the Left's part. The funding comes from all sorts of other methods. It's just like the Left saying Trump said to drink bleach as that's only what they implied he meant and said. If you look into the issue you won't find a single video or shred of evidence that Trump said "drink bleach". What you assume someone means doesn't make that assumption true. Just because Mexico isn't handing over a blank check doesn't mean they aren't paying for the walls in other ways.


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## chrisrlink (Oct 2, 2020)

i always wondered what would happen if all of the line of succession  we're to well for a nice term be unable to fill the presidents shoes Cpvid 19 could prove that risk if all 16 people are infected on another note i can see the Secret service being pretty busy with all these death of trump meme posters


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## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> *Estimates* on annual flu deaths are all over the place. 12,000 to 60,000 a year. And every year is different. Very different, as in these things aren't that reliable. As you say, it 'averages out' to 36k, but since annual flu season is not typically politicized those numbers are not conflated so much by other related causes. Flu deaths are flu deaths. Pneumonia deaths are pneumonia deaths. With the Covid totals being reported, almost everyone involved also had other conditions, especially pneumonia. But they all died a "Covid-related" death.
> 
> If you look at this, the deaths from flu in 2017-2018 were 61,000.
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
> ...


Influenza is seasonal. Give them time, Check in a few months.

Also you are trapped in a logic puzzle you dont seem to be able to exist logically, so circumvent it.

Look at access death rates:
https://voxeu.org/article/us-excess-mortality-rate-covid-19-substantially-worse-europe-s

Also, some scenarios show the US ending up with 400k covid deaths in february. Again, those are scenarios, so if its only 250k dont beat them up, they are influenced by 'everything', but - winter is coming.. 


Also, one more time, its not just overall death figures, its also in what period of time, if hospitals would become non operational, much more people would die. So you enact meassures to slow down rate of spread.

In states with lower popoulation density, you need less measures.


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## Lacius (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The death statistics keep changing, but the general figures are that 99.8% of people who get infected don't die and that is calculated for overall infections as that number does decrease with age. Here's one of many articles that has recent figures in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Overall, the death rate in the USA for someone who tests positive for COVID-19 is 2.8%. Factors like age and other health issues affect this number.
Overall, the increase in the number of COVID-19 cases is not due to the increase in testing. We know this because the positive tests as a percent of total tests has increased. In some geographic areas, however, you will find the increase in cases being due to increased testing. Pay attention to the percents.
Edit: Even in areas where the infection rate isn't increasing and the number of cases is higher because of increased testing, it's often the case that the infection rate is still too high.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Overall, the death rate in the USA for someone who tests positive for COVID-19 is 2.8%. Factors like age and other health issues affect this number.



Your % is months old, but even if that was still the number Trump really has nothing to worry about.



> Overall, the increase in the number of COVID-19 cases is not due to the increase in testing. We know this because the positive tests as a percent of total tests has increased. In some geographic areas, however, you will find the increase in cases being due to increased testing. Pay attention to the percents.



The reason we know more people have or had COVID is because we're testing more people. Just because you haven't been tested doesn't mean you don't have it. So as the number of tests increase, the number of positive results increase and also the % of people that die decreases.


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## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The death statistics keep changing, but the general figures are that 99.8% of people who get infected don't die and that is calculated for overall infections as that number does decrease with age. Here's one of many articles that has recent figures in it.


Even that is wrong.

The usually contemplated death rate of people infected with Covid in western democracies is between 0.375% and 0.6% in the US currently its estimated to be 0.6%.

To do those estimations you need widespread testing in regions mimicking 'statisticaly normal populations' because you cant test the entire country in a few weeks.

And that that number is fluctuating, is kind of logical, because its dependent on statistical models. And everytime a new 'remedy' is implemented in therapy its changing, f.e.

Whats relevant in Trumps case, are risk factors.
Agegroup and hypertension throw him into 30% risk of dying territory.
If he would have diabetes, he'd be at 60% chance of dying.

You can use the calculator here:
https://ncov2019.live/calculator


Now - good news for Trump is, that with probably daily testing in the administration, you caught it early, and that he will be pumped full with antibodies (from plasma or engineered, if effective, last studies I've seen on them were inconclusive), and the most expensive medication there is so his personal risk of dying is probably below 30%.


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## Seliph (Oct 2, 2020)

oh awesome


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## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

No contact tracing was done for reporters:


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## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 2, 2020)

Being reckless has consequences. I think the lesson here is that having a big mouth can't beat scientific facts. Wear a mask people


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## Lacius (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Your % is months old, but even if that was still the number Trump really has nothing to worry about.



2.8% is the number as of today.
Trump is older, obese, and takes medication for other health issues like high cholesterol. His odds are likely higher, but he will still probably survive.
The issue has less to do with his odds and more to do with the carelessness of his actions up until this point.



gregory-samba said:


> The reason we know more people have or had COVID is because we're testing more people. Just because you haven't been tested doesn't mean you don't have it. So as the number of tests increase, the number of positive results increase and also the % of people that die decreases.


You don't seem to understand my point about percentages, so I will break it down. Let's pretend 10/100 people have COVID-19. If I test 10 people, I should expect about 1 to test positive. If I test 20 people, I should expect about 2 to test positive. This is an example of increased testing leading to increased cases, even though the infection rate didn't actually increase. All that changed was the testing, and nobody should be more worried after the second round of testing than after the first.

The problem is the increase in testing does not account for the increase in cases we are seeing overall. To use the same example above, if I test 10 people and get one positive, and then I test 20 people and I get 5 positives, that's an increase in the positive case numbers that shouldn't have happened if the cases only increased because of the increased testing. Look at the percentages of tests, and you will see that we are getting increases around the country. That's a problem that isn't explained by increased testing.

And, again, it's not necessarily a good thing when, in some areas, the rate of positive cases is flat but the rate is already too high. We want to see it come down.

I should also point out that the "it's because of more testing" argument can never do anything to help an argument, even ignoring the above points, unless the argument is "we weren't testing enough before, and we are only now realizing that things are worse than we thought."


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## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> The death statistics keep changing, but the general figures are that 99.8% of people who get infected don't die and that is calculated for overall infections as that number does decrease with age. Here's one of many articles that has recent figures in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ron DeSantis is your source?  Well that explains the wonky fatality rate that's several times lower than most other estimates.

CDC: 0.65% IFR
https://reason.com/2020/09/29/the-l...ion-fatality-rate-vary-dramatically-with-age/

World Health Organization: 0.5% - 1.0% IFR
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19

Columbia University: 1.46% IFR
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...an-many-believed-infection-fatality-rate-cvd/

US\World combined cases meta-analysis: 0.68% IFR
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.03.20089854v4

In addition, Covid-19 is also roughly twice as contagious as influenza (r0 value), which multiplies the number of cases and total deaths.


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Lacius said:


> 2.8% is the number as of today.


Wrong method to calculate. Not all people with milder symptoms get tested.

You cant just do a calculation, on people who were known to have it and people who are known to have died from it.

You need wide spread testing on statistically normally dispersed populations. Thats done, once, maybe twice a year, because tests could be distributed 'smarter'.

here, with source:


> But as researchers like us have learned more about the spread of the virus, we have discovered that the total number of infected people is far greater than the number of confirmed cases. When deaths from COVID-19 are divided by the total number of cases – not just reported cases – you get a statistic called the infection fatality rate (IFR), or colloquially, the death rate. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention currently has a best guess of 0.65% for the IFR. But current estimates fall anywhere between 0.2% and 1%, a surprisingly large range when calculating the infection fatality rate should be as simple as dividing the number of deaths by total infections. And these estimates are changing all the time. In fact, in the time it took to write this article, the CDC changed its best estimate of the fatality rate from 0.26% to 0.65%.


https://theconversation.com/how-dea...ind-but-researchers-are-getting-closer-141426


----------



## Lacius (Oct 2, 2020)

notimp said:


> Wrong method to calculate. Not all people with milder symptoms get tested.
> 
> You cant just do a calculation, an people who were known to have it and people who are known to have died from it.
> 
> ...


Please read my posts fully. I am very careful with my words. I specifically said the death rate of those who get tested.


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Please read my posts fully. I am very careful with my words. I specifically said the death rate of those who get tested.


Which means exactly nothing.

So please be considerate of those who are not so careful with reading..


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> But if you check this page on Covid19-related deaths, the flue deaths for this year are only 6,700. And that's with or without Covid19 and/or pneumonia. *Where did they all go???*


45% of Americans are wearing masks in 2020.  They are social distancing.  There are no more concerts.  Bars are closed.  Sports arenas are mostly empty.  Large social gatherings are forbidden in many places.  You really need someone to explain to you where all influenza cases went?  If you can't understand the basic concept of social distancing = fewer deaths, then I don't know what else to tell you.


----------



## Doran754 (Oct 2, 2020)

leon315 said:


> Yes, and i like making trump jokes too, plus he already spent Billions of American taxpayers money to build Mexican wall, It's highly probable he would do the same with minolities.
> 
> I LIVE IN EU, honestly i don't really give shit how american election goes.



You live in Italy mate, Italy. The EU isn't a country. And yes, he ran on a pledge to build a wall, so obviously he's spending tax payers money building that wall, LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You live in Italy mate, Italy. The EU isn't a country. And yes, he ran on a pledge to build a wall, so obviously he's spending tax payers money building that wall, LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> 45% of Americans are wearing masks in 2020.  They are social distancing.  There are no more concerts.  Bars are closed.  Sports arenas are mostly empty.  Large social gatherings are forbidden in many places.  You really need someone to explain to you where all influenza cases went?  If you can't understand the basic concept of social distancing = fewer deaths, then I don't know what else to tell you.




That's a good point. I guess we should just go on living like this forever then. I mean, if it saves one life, right? For the children.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> That's a good point. I guess we should just go on living like this forever then. I mean, if it saves one life, right? For the children.


What's that have to do with my answer to your question?  You asked me where all the influenza cases went.  Social distancing is the answer.  I never said that's the way I want to live -- far from it.


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> That's a good point. I guess we should just go on living like this forever then. I mean, if it saves one life, right? For the children.


Would be a fine argument, if you were dealing with a linear growth of infections in a 'act like normal' case, but you are not, you are dealing with a near (but never quite) exponential spread.

So once you take all that away - poof, spread like in italy (although, there mostly spread in old folks homes was the main issue), question - are your hospitals overwhelmed then, yes, no.

Also vaccine is coming (and could take about 2 years to reach required vaccination levels in populations, four years or more in developing countries).

All those discussions will be held after vaccines have become more or less widely available.

Because everything about structural policy making is about 'informed risk taking' - but 'hey lets try it with no fallback, and ignore the scenarios that happened in other countries around the world' is not informed risk taking..


----------



## Doran754 (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


>




Yeah fair point, forgot about that.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

Lacius said:


> I should also point out that the "it's because of more testing" argument can never do anything to help an argument, even ignoring the above points, unless the argument is "we weren't testing enough before, and we are only now realizing that things are worse than we thought."



So, you don't like the "we're doing more testing so there's more positive results" argument. That's fine, I like it and it makes perfect sense to me. If you test half of the 330,000,000 residents in the USA you may only get 57,000,000 positive results, but if you test the entire 330,000,000 the results will go up. The more you test the more positive results you're going to see and the trend has been the more we test the more we find out more people had it then we thought so the death rate and serious sickness rate keep decreasing.

I also don't care for your 2.8% death rate, as that doesn't reflect what has been reported for months or even last week. It's more like 0.02%, but either way Trump has the odds in his favor for survival.



LumInvader said:


> Ron DeSantis is your source?  Well that explains the wonky fatality rate that's several times lower than most other estimates.
> 
> CDC: 0.65% IFR
> https://reason.com/2020/09/29/the-l...ion-fatality-rate-vary-dramatically-with-age/
> ...



So your % is a maximum of 1.46% death rate from your examples. My example shows an overall rate of 1.5% and Lacius is stating 2.8%. Your examples are more current then what Lacuis is stating as it was up in the 3-2% a few months ago so his figures are outdated, but it's all a numbers game and the thing about all of these figures is that *they are extremely low*. I also wouldn't knock the chart that the Governor of Florida is holding up as it was sourced from official figures and not some made up political number it just so happens you don't like the messenger.

I also understand that it's more contagious than the flu, but the serious injury and death rates are so low it doesn't really make a difference. Most people that get it won't even know they had it let alone get ill or get close to having to go to a Hospital. That's why I'm not too concerned about Trump. Let's just hope I'm not wrong. It's sad to see people rooting for his death, but then I'm thankful we live in a country that allows us to criticize and wish authorities figures death as if we adopt socialism those are sorts of things you could be jailed or executed for.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WD_GASTER2 said:


> Being reckless has consequences. I think the lesson here is that having a big mouth can't beat scientific facts. Wear a mask people



Chances are you're going to get COVID regardless if you wear a mask or not. Heck, the odds are you've already had it and don't know you did.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> What's that have to do with my answer to your question?  You asked me where all the influenza cases went.  Social distancing is the answer.  I never said that's the way I want to live -- far from it.



And I said, that's a good point. But it isn't provable. And it's also beside the point I was making before about the number of flu deaths annually vs. the big scary 200k being reported about Covid19. The magic fun term that makes the 200k number deserve an asterisk is "Covid-related". Some guy crashed on his motorcycle and died but he was Covid19 positive ... death was reported as Covid19 related. That's an outlier example of course, but "Covid-related" is a big umbrella. And there are political and federal funding interests driving it.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

I do wonder though, why we're comparing people who've had the flu to covid. I mean, how do we know how many people actually have the flu virus in them as you can get it and barely get sick or not get sick at all. So if millions of people have it and don't know wouldn't that effect the comparison to the Chinese Wuhan Cornonavirus?


----------



## ChibiMofo (Oct 2, 2020)

Nickp2517 said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html
> 
> So scary and disturbing. I am hoping he and Melanie pull through this



A million deaths in and you only find COVID-19 "scary and disturbing" when the bleach-injecting, non-mask wearing traitor who has downplayed the virus and tried to ridicule those trying to save lives finally gets it? What is wrong with you???!!! Virtually every other person to get it is worthy of your sympathy and best wishes. 
NOT HIM!


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

ChibiMofo said:


> A million deaths in and you only find COVID-19 "scary and disturbing" when the bleach-injecting, non-mask wearing traitor who has downplayed the virus and tried to ridicule those trying to save lives finally gets it? What is wrong with you???!!! Virtually every other person to get it is worthy of your sympathy and best wishes.
> NOT HIM!



Trump never said to drink bleach. That never came out of his mouth. You start off your insults with fabrications so that makes you look like a fool. I challenge you to go find a video of Trump saying to drink bleach and not a video of him saying there's UV disinfectants that you can take that will kill covid, as that's a cutting edge technology and does exist. That's the only video you'll find as he never said "drink bleach", that's simply what others inferred he said as they twisted what he was referring to. He was being sarcastic regarding the new injectable UV light treatments. Get a clue man before you run your mouth.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

Worth a read. It's not long.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/heroic-failures/pandemic-memories-and-mortalities

Interesting that, adjusting for population then vs. now, current mortality numbers from Covid19 would need to triple still just to tie up with the 1968-69 pandemic (which was still going on when the Woodstock Music Festival took place).


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Worth a read. It's not long.
> 
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/heroic-failures/pandemic-memories-and-mortalities
> 
> Interesting that, adjusting for population then vs. now, current mortality numbers from Covid19 would need to triple still just to tie up with the 1968-69 pandemic (which was still going on when the Woodstock Music Festival took place).



Our World history is full of worse pandemics and outbreaks yet we didn't shut down our entire country for them. I think shutting down was a mistake. In my state we've opened everything back up, but there's distancing and mask requirements, which I admit does help a little bit with preventing catching or spreading it, but the sickness and death rates are so low I'm not sure why people are still worried about the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus. We shut down over something that's not that serious.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 2, 2020)

shamzie said:


> You live in Italy mate, Italy. The EU isn't a country. And yes, he ran on a pledge to build a wall, so obviously he's spending tax payers money building that wall, LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.



hell yeah, build the wall at the expense of our military. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ecurity-families-foot-bill-column/2325586001/

really falls in line with his personal anti-military stance.

it honestly will be refreshing when we get a president back who ACTUALLY cares about our military and veterans.


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> Worth a read. It's not long.
> 
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/heroic-failures/pandemic-memories-and-mortalities
> 
> Interesting that, adjusting for population then vs. now, current mortality numbers from Covid19 would need to triple still just to tie up with the 1968-69 pandemic (which was still going on when the Woodstock Music Festival took place).


Those are estimates, not 'counted' current (edit: ok, by january) estimates for Covid 19 already are at 3x higher than reported.

Its so easy to farm likes from people that dont know what you are selling them.. 

edit: src: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02762-y

But to be fair, your original article also didnt take that into account, and was from a reputable source. So its 'up for debate'. 

edit: 2x-3x reported is more likely (3x is the 'worst case scenario')


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Our World history is full of worse pandemics and outbreaks yet we didn't shut down our entire country for them.



I think that article makes a good point that media hype and social media have caused a completely different and disproportionate approach this time around. I think this has various effects, including that a lot of older people who have been through this kind of thing before bristle more against the restrictions, quarantines, etc than younger people who are always hopeful the world can be saved.

As far as politics plays a role in this, a short exchange during the debate the other night that I haven't seen anyone talking about struck me as being at the core of the ideological difference. Trump was saying something like, 'the American people want to go back to their jobs, want the stores open, want the schools open, want their lives to go back to normal.' And Biden's rebuttal to that was, 'the American people want safety!' I think they're both right, just talking about different American people.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

omgcat said:


> hell yeah, build the wall at the expense of our military. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ecurity-families-foot-bill-column/2325586001/
> 
> really falls in line with his personal anti-military stance.
> 
> it honestly will be refreshing when we get a president back who ACTUALLY cares about our military and veterans.



At least Trump is trying to actually keep his campaign promises. Most politicians promise all sorts of shit then never follow through once elected.

I do wonder though about your last comment. What do you think about Trump donating 1/4th of his yearly Presidential salary to disabled veterans (See Q1, 2018)? You do know he gives his entire $400,000 a year away? I also guess his new polices for veterans flew under your radar too?


----------



## SG854 (Oct 2, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> I've got to be honest : I'm more sorry for Melania and Hope Hicks (his assistent who also tested positive)  than for Donald himself. For him, I just wish he gets sick enough to take the virus serious... But not more than that.
> 
> Nice one.
> *Oh, and as an encore: He's also a person of color.*


Orange is a color


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

notimp said:


> Those are estimates, not 'counted' current (edit: ok, by january) estimates for Covid 19 already are at 3x higher than reported.
> 
> Its so easy to farm likes from people that dont know what you are selling them..
> 
> ...




If I wanted to 'farm likes' in this place I'd post leftist horseshit.

I post cranky old conservative horseshit.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> I think that article makes a good point that media hype and social media have caused a completely different and disproportionate approach this time around. I think this has various effects, including that a lot of older people who have been through this kind of thing before bristle more against the restrictions, quarantines, etc than younger people who are always hopeful the world can be saved.
> 
> As far as politics plays a role in this, a short exchange during the debate the other night that I haven't seen anyone talking about struck me as being at the core of the ideological difference. Trump was saying something like, 'the American people want to go back to their jobs, want the stores open, want the schools open, want their lives to go back to normal.' And Biden's rebuttal to that was, 'the American people want safety!' I think they're both right, just talking about different American people.



Fair enough. Safety though is usually an illusion. There's not much we can do to avoid catching the virus, unless we do a real total shutdown where no one can leave their residences for any reason and that includes everyone, including UPS drivers, doctors, the police, etc ... As long as one person from each residence could come in contact with another person in another residence then there's a chance it could spread. It's made me think we'd really be fucked if there was some really deadly bug going around. If this was a serious pandemic we'd be fucked responding to it via however the Right or Left wanted to.


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> If I wanted to 'farm likes' in this place I'd post leftist horseshit.
> 
> I post cranky old conservative horseshit.


In this forum its entirely useless to farm likes, I agree. But the people liking your post dont know, that you are using reported, vs estimated in your example. (Now reported is also more than 'tested' but below estimated..  )

Still, I havent seen that comparison, good find.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 2, 2020)

notimp said:


> In this forum its entirely useless to farm likes, I agree. But the people liking your post dont know, that you are using reported, vs estimated in your example. (Now reported is also more than 'tested' but below estimated..  )



I just thought it was a good read, something worth thinking about. It is true, regardless of 'reported, estimated, tested' that worse pandemics have occurred in the past, and society did not react this way.

As for these numbers vs. those numbers, as Mark Twain said there are three kinds of  lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

notimp said:


> In this forum its entirely useless to farm likes, I agree. But the people liking your post dont know, that you are using reported, vs estimated in your example. (Now reported is also more than 'tested' but below estimated..  )
> 
> Still, I havent seen that comparison, good find.



People that seek after pretend Internet points such as Likes need to reevaluate their life choices.


----------



## rsx (Oct 2, 2020)

This just in: The Clorox Company has announced a 40% hike in their stock portfolio!


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Biden tested negative:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/02/politics/joe-biden-coronavirus/index.html

(news from 1 hour ago)

Fingers crossed, that that holds true for the next days....


----------



## erikas (Oct 2, 2020)

Wow so many political hacks and conspiracy theorists here.
1. I thought the mask does not protect you, only others. Get your story straigt.
2. What exactly does he have to gain by lying?


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

Depends on which masks, but yes, cloth masks mostly protect others, same with chirurgical masks.

Only conspiracy theory that might make sense, is that Trump might have been infected by the 'democratic devils'..  Aaaand he wasnt..


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

erikas said:


> Wow so many political hacks and conspiracy theorists here.
> 1. I thought the mask does not protect you, only others. Get your story straigt.
> 2. What exactly does he have to gain by lying?



Thanks to the CDC and WHO lying about masks for weeks there's tons of misinformation floating around, but I do recall the Liberal argument that material created to filter out small particles doesn't filter out small particles. Most masks, unless they have those stupid vents, filter the air coming out of an in the material the mask is made out of. They don't work "1-way". However, there's various types of masks and some like the ones with the vents or made out of cheap cotton can actually cause more harm then good. Like I previously stated, if this was a serious pandemic that actually had a high mortality rate we'd be fucked. The constant flow of mixed messages from the WHO and CDC also don't help things. Then there's the stupid factor, like the people that believe Trump said to drink bleach.


----------



## Lazyboss (Oct 2, 2020)

Lier, COVID-19 cannot infect pigs.


----------



## notimp (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Thanks to the CDC and WHO lying about masks for weeks there's tons of misinformation floating around


BS, in the european country I live in, my aunt, who is 60something and has a more than average fear of the corona virus, lately told me, that if she is in public, sometimes she even wears two masks (cloth and chirurgical), just to protect her better....

And we had nothing of the above.

Truth is, you dont tell people 'no, masks dont protect you, they protect the people around you' in a 'dropdead simple manner' because that would be counterproductive.

And they do protect you, just far, far less than they protect people around you...  And by the time you've explained percentages to the average person you've lost them in argument.

So this is a litmus test. Everyone you see promoting, that this is because Trump never wore masks in public is largely a moron..  Great opportunity to categorize your friends circle.. 

(Although indirectly it is (by a certain percetage, because masks arent a 100% sure fire way to prevent spread, because f.e. they are misused), because he fostered a culture of not wearing masks in Airforce One and in the White house.)


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> And I said, that's a good point. But it isn't provable. And it's also beside the point I was making before about the number of flu deaths annually vs. the big scary 200k being reported about Covid19. The magic fun term that makes the 200k number deserve an asterisk is "Covid-related". Some guy crashed on his motorcycle and died but he was Covid19 positive ... death was reported as Covid19 related. That's an outlier example of course, but "Covid-related" is a big umbrella. And there are political and federal funding interests driving it.


I agree with you that it's impossible to count all the people who've had Covid-19, especially when half or more lose their antibodies within 6 months.  This is why we use estimation models, like the IFR models used by the WHO and CDC.  So it doesn't matter whether or not it meets your criteria for proof, as most scientists already agree that social distancing\mask wearing reduces exposure and therefore infection, which is why Covid-19 mathetical models show significant infection reduction in reduced exposure scenarios. 

Think of it as the science of common sense.  When you're not exposed to said virus, you won't get said virus.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 2, 2020)

[QUOTE="gregory-samba, post: 9219451, member: 53803]
Chances are you're going to get COVID regardless if you wear a mask or not. Heck, the odds are you've already had it and don't know you did.[/QUOTE]

Citation needed.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> Citation needed.



I'm not sure why you'd need source material for these things. Most people that get COVID don't even get sick, per the CDC and WHO press releases over the past months. Plus, the more people we test the more are positive so it turns out much more people had it and didn't even know they had it.

I've just given you enough information in those two sentences for you to load up a search engine. I'm not going to play the Liberal game and hold your hand. Plus, if you're already made up your mind you'll just try to discredit any sources I might give you, regardless if they are correct or not.

Learn how to research things, you might learn something.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Learn how to research things, you might learn something.


Uh Oh the Fury is about to be unleashed


----------



## Seliph (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Learn how to research things, you might learn something.


Learn how to cite things lol.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 2, 2020)

Ah. I see an ad-hominem after presenting an opinion as evidence.

In a previous time I would have gone to town refuting you.However, you are not arguing in good faith so have a wonderful and hopefully nice day

For those still willing to be reasonable, my advice is to wear a mask. I still see plenty of people on respirators at my job from covid. So you all stay safe out there


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 2, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Learn how to cite things lol.



The sky is blue, water is wet, ghost peppers are hot. This is common knowledge and if you're paying attention the last 10 months so are my other two claims. I already stated I'm not going to hold his hand. More people need to do that.



Seliph said:


> Learn how to cite things lol.



Fine. Stay ignorant. Your choice. I don't really care.


----------



## Seliph (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Fine. Stay ignorant. Your choice. I don't really care.


Even if I were ignorant that still doesn't change the fact that you haven't provided citations.


----------



## Prior22 (Oct 2, 2020)

Nickp2517 said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html
> 
> So scary and disturbing. I am hoping he and Melanie pull through this



I hope Melanie is fine.  Melania though.....I really don't care.  Kudos to anyone who gets the hidden joke there.


----------



## Lacius (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> So, you don't like the "we're doing more testing so there's more positive results" argument. That's fine, I like it and it makes perfect sense to me. If you test half of the 330,000,000 residents in the USA you may only get 57,000,000 positive results, but if you test the entire 330,000,000 the results will go up. The more you test the more positive results you're going to see and the trend has been the more we test the more we find out more people had it then we thought so the death rate and serious sickness rate keep decreasing.


Did you... did you not read anything I typed?


Lacius said:


> You don't seem to understand my point about percentages, so I will break it down. Let's pretend 10/100 people have COVID-19. If I test 10 people, I should expect about 1 to test positive. If I test 20 people, I should expect about 2 to test positive. This is an example of increased testing leading to increased cases, even though the infection rate didn't actually increase. All that changed was the testing, and nobody should be more worried after the second round of testing than after the first.
> 
> The problem is the increase in testing does not account for the increase in cases we are seeing overall. To use the same example above, if I test 10 people and get one positive, and then I test 20 people and I get 5 positives, that's an increase in the positive case numbers that shouldn't have happened if the cases only increased because of the increased testing. Look at the percentages of tests, and you will see that we are getting increases around the country. That's a problem that isn't explained by increased testing.





gregory-samba said:


> I also don't care for your 2.8% death rate, as that doesn't reflect what has been reported for months or even last week. It's more like 0.02%, but either way Trump has the odds in his favor for survival.


If we are talking about the death rate just among those tested, it's 208,000 deaths divided by 7,310,000 cases in the USA. That's 2.8%.

If you want to talk about the estimated infection fatality rate (IFR) overall, it's about 0.65% according to the CDC.

If you want to talk about the estimated IFR for someone who is Trump's age, etc., it's about 4%.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 2, 2020)

I get the whole masks are important thing (at least in theory) but in my opinion with that there is so much inconsistency I am not sold on how effective they really are if at all for most people.  

I wear them when I go to the store but based on what I see when I am out there the majority of people I see it probably makes no difference.  They get their shopping cart then boom adjust their mask touch their ears, their face, etc..  And continue to do this while they walk around the store.  A virus particle is only like 60 nano meters in size. if you are a kid who is shedding a ton of virus (unlike older people, from everything I have read they are not really efficient in doing this) and this kid is walking around a store with a mask on he is blasting 60 nano meter sized particles everywhere he goes.  If you happen to walk in his path regardless of the mask (unless it is a real mask made for that stuff that the doctors use) you are going to breath in particles they have expelled.  They land on the cart, you handle it and then touch your face and there you go again.  

The act of wearing a mask could even make the virus spread more for a certain portion of the population.  Due to bad execution of the safety protocol you have been told to follow.  I am no doctor or surgeon but I bet mask effectiveness falls apart due to dozens of mistakes people inadvertently make while using them.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 2, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> So your % is a maximum of 1.46% death rate from your examples. My example shows an overall rate of 1.5% and Lacius is stating 2.8%. Your examples are more current then what Lacuis is stating as it was up in the 3-2% a few months ago so his figures are outdated, but it's all a numbers game and the thing about all of these figures is that they are extremely low. I also wouldn't knock the chart that the Governor of Florida is holding up as it was sourced from official figures and not some made up political number it just so happens you don't like the messenger.


Your original quote that I responded to cited a 0.2% fatality rate, which is flat out wrong:


> The death statistics keep changing, but the general figures are that 99.8% of people who get infected don't die


If you had just stated the death rate closer to reality, like 99% or so, I wouldn't have challenged your math.


gregory-samba said:


> I also understand that it's more contagious than the flu, *but the serious injury and death rates are so low it doesn't really make a difference. Most people that get it won't even know they had it let alone get ill or get close to having to go to a Hospital.* That's why I'm not too concerned about Trump. Let's just hope I'm not wrong. It's sad to see people rooting for his death, but then I'm thankful we live in a country that allows us to criticize and wish authorities figures death as if we adopt socialism those are sorts of things you could be jailed or executed for.


That's why studies keep coming out proving your assumption wrong? 

*55% of coronavirus patients still have neurological problems three months later: study*
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/5...-problems-three-months-later-study-2020-08-07


----------



## SG854 (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *55% of coronavirus patients still have neurological problems three months later: study*
> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/5...-problems-three-months-later-study-2020-08-07


That headline is sketchy. Anything that makes claims that crazy is usually a flawed study. Your crazy radar should go off. It's either flawed because not enough data is collected. Or the person writing the article didn't properly read the study. Or they know  exactly what the study says but make overexagerating claims to get more views.



55% of 60 patients. It doesn't represent the majority of the population that gets covid which is what over 34 million. Its too small of a sample size.

The 60 patients were hospitalized. It doesn't tell you about non hospitalized patients that got covid.

And the patients were severely hospitalized. Which isn't representative of all hospitalized patients that get covid.

The article itself even says

"While it’s too soon to say whether such post-COVID conditions will be chronic"


----------



## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

THE PRO BIDEN STREAMER IS LITERALLY CELEBRATING WITH ORGASM after Trump has been transported into medical center with *MILD SYMPTOMS.

*



GUYS, seems Twitch is broken on gbatemp, anyone knows HOW TO INCORPORATE TWITCH LINKS HERE?


----------



## regnad (Oct 2, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of this copypasta over the next couple of weeks:
> 
> https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/c..._president_donald_trump_announces_he/g7df1mp/


I admit it!


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 3, 2020)

SG854 said:


> That headline is sketchy. Anything that makes claims that crazy is usually a flawed study. Your crazy radar should go off. It's either flawed because not enough data is collected. Or the person writing the article didn't properly read the study. Or they know  exactly what the study says but make overexagerating claims to get more views.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The headline clearly states these were patients.  It clearly states that it was a study.  There's nothing crazy or flawed about the headline.  Perhaps it's a flaw in the way you read headlines.

Contrary to your statement, study groups roughly 60 in size or smaller are common and are helpful toward gaining immediate knowledge regarding a new illness, which is more important than pin point accuracy.  For example, the Ohio State Covid-19\myocarditis study only involved a couple dozen athletes.  If it was a flawed study, I highly doubt thelancelot would've published it.  

Furthermore, there were multiple studies included in that article that underscored my point and certainly more that I'll post as I find them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



regnad said:


> I admit it!


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

This is the kind of bullshit the liberal media posts. New York Times speculates Trump may not remain on ballot after contracting coronavirus. Total and utter bullshit, the only way he doesn't continue is if he dies. No matter how much you Dems may hope he does he isn't going to die. He will have to be beat fair and square (with of course the help of some mail in voter fraud)


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

He tested positive rather than he's infected. There's a difference.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Osakasan said:


> alt-right


That's a term I hadn't read since 2017. lol


----------



## Smiths (Oct 3, 2020)

Nickp2517 said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html
> 
> So scary and disturbing. I am hoping he and Melanie pull through this


lol


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> I suppose that's what you get when you try and downplay the virus, hold massive indoor events right now, and only rarely actually wear a mask.
> 
> Though the cynic in me has me wondering if this is a calculated lie, so he can pop back up 2 days later say he's better than ever and it was no big deal, and then use that as supposed proof that the dangers of this virus has been blown out of proportion.



I love how not wanting to freak everyone out is downplaying it. I also love how you guys lecture about the Trump rallies yet give a free pass to the rioters, looters. and protestors. And yes, the virus is being blown out of proportion for political reasons. If it was as bad as they say, they wouldn't have to cook the numbers by adding people who died of shootings and in motorcycle crashes to the Covid lists.

Now let's watch the so called loving and tolerant left get giddy at the thought of Trump dying while they paint the right-wing as hateful.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

[QUOTE="RickFryMcFly, post: 9220165, member: 538337"
Now let's watch the so called loving and tolerant left get giddy at the thought of Trump dying while they paint the right-wing as hateful.[/QUOTE]

You're late to the party my friend. All you gotta do is read the thread.


----------



## IncredulousP (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> they paint the right-wing as hateful.


The right painted that self-portrait long ago buddy.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> [QUOTE="RickFryMcFly, post: 9220165, member: 538337"
> Now let's watch the so called loving and tolerant left get giddy at the thought of Trump dying while they paint the right-wing as hateful.



You're late to the party my friend. All you gotta do is read the thread.[/QUOTE]
It's going to backfire on them as normal people who may be on the fence see it and are disgusted by it. The libs just can't help themselves though.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> You're late to the party my friend. All you gotta do is read the thread.
> It's going to backfire on them as normal people who may be on the fence see it and are disgusted by it. The libs just can't help themselves though.



I said this yesterday in another thread. Those weed smoking peace loving hippies are not at all in alignment with todays Democrats. Especially the leaders. They are war hungry, they are evil, and they are dangerous. Wouldn't be surprised if Trump was given the virus at the debate on purpose.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> The right painted that self-portrait long ago buddy.



No, that incorrect picture was painted when the leftist dinosaur media when they had a stranglehold on the flow of info. And like the leftist dinosaur media, the picture is dying as people realize it is the left who hates everything America stands for.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> I said this yesterday in another thread. Those weed smoking peace loving hippies are not at all in alignment with todays Democrats. Especially the leaders. They are war hungry, they are evil, and they are dangerous. Wouldn't be surprised if Trump was given the virus at the debate on purpose.



Isn't it funny how the anti-war left went MIA under Obama?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> I love how not wanting to freak everyone out is downplaying it.


Not what I said.  I mean that I can see him coming out, after going through hell and then saying that the disease is no big deal, anyone can get it and not worry about it.  That's something I can absolutely see him doing, and that is not a positive thing.



RickFryMcFly said:


> I also love how you guys lecture about the Trump rallies yet give a free pass to the rioters, looters. and protestors.


When?  When did I do that?  Never once have I proclaimed that all these protests are good things to do right now.  (all the same, at least they were outside, still this is a terrrible time for such things to occur regardless, I completely agree)



RickFryMcFly said:


> And yes, the virus is being blown out of proportion for political reasons. If it was as bad as they say, they wouldn't have to cook the numbers by adding people who died of shootings and in motorcycle crashes to the Covid lists.


Jesus, you've really red pilled yourself, huh?  If you want to believe it's all a hoax, have at it.  Doesn't change the fact that people all around the world are needlessly dying of this thing and that is not something to sweep under the rug and pretend isn't happening.



RickFryMcFly said:


> Now let's watch the so called loving and tolerant left get giddy at the thought of Trump dying while they paint the right-wing as hateful.


I'm no fan of Trump, but I would never wish death on my worst enemy.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

"Jesus, you've really red pilled yourself, huh?  If you want to believe it's all a hoax, have at it.  Doesn't change the fact that people all around the world are needlessly dying of this thing and that is not something to sweep under the rug and pretend isn't happening."

Did I say it isn't happening? no, I said it's being overblown for political reasons and I stand by that. 

The CDC admits 94% of people who did had at least 1 significant comorbidity 

I work in a grocery store that never closed and in this whole thing we only had one person get it...

We also didn't start wearing masks here until the end of April.

Even now, most people don't wear masks properly which means we'd all be screwed if the masks were so necessary.

Also, economic depression and tyranny are much more likely to kill you than a cold virus. "Democide" is actually the number 1 cause of unnatural death in human history.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> "Jesus, you've really red pilled yourself, huh?  If you want to believe it's all a hoax, have at it.  Doesn't change the fact that people all around the world are needlessly dying of this thing and that is not something to sweep under the rug and pretend isn't happening."
> 
> Did I say it isn't happening? no, I said it's being overblown for political reasons and I stand by that.


Again, overblown or not, we shouldn't ignore it, at all.  It's a serious new disease that now has killed over 200,000 people in the US in less than a year.  Even if that were inflated by 100% and only 100,000 people have died, that's still incredibly fucked up.  A year ago, most of those people had nothing wrong with them, and if this year were like any other year, they wouldn't have anything wrong with them now either and they wouldn't have died (again most of them, I'm sure some would have died naturally regardless)



RickFryMcFly said:


> I work in a grocery store that never closed and in this whole thing we only had one person get it...


I work at a restaurant, most of us got.  I got it way back at the end of March, it fucking sucked, but came out of the other end alright.



RickFryMcFly said:


> We also didn't start wearing masks here until the end of April.


Really wish we all were, maybe I wouldn't have got it.



RickFryMcFly said:


> Even now, most people don't wear masks properly which means we'd all be screwed if the masks were so necessary.


I agree, there are too many morons out there not properly doing their part and it could be helping lead to more deaths, it's terrible.



RickFryMcFly said:


> Also, economic depression and tyranny are much more likely to kill you than a cold virus. "Democide" is actually the number 1 cause of unnatural death in human history.


In this last year I felt first hand much more like the virus was about to kill me than the economy was.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> Again, overblown or not, we shouldn't ignore it, at all.  It's a serious new disease that now has killed over 200,000 people in the US in less than a year.  Even if that were inflated by 100% and only 100,000 people have died, that's still incredibly fucked up.  A year ago, most of those people had nothing wrong with them, and if this year were like any other year, they wouldn't have anything wrong with them now either and they wouldn't have died (again most of them, I'm sure some would have died naturally regardless)
> 
> 
> I work at a restaurant, most of us got.  I got it way back at the end of March, it fucking sucked, but came out of the other end alright.
> ...




You got sick and you got better, that feeds into my argument. 

"In this last year I felt first hand much more like the virus was about to kill me than the economy was"

How you felt doesn't negate the historical truths I put forth.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> You got sick and you got better, that feeds into my argument.


Having lived through it, I assure you, it's not something to be taken lightly.  Sickest I've ever been in my life by a wide margin, genuine hell.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> Having lived through it, I assure you, it's not something to be taken lightly.  Sickest I've ever been in my life by a wide margin, genuine hell.



Again, that sucks but it does nothing to negate my arguments. Government tyranny is nothing to be taken lightly. Aren't you concerned by the fact that all they have to do it say "virus" and they can proceed to drop trou and crap all over our civil liberties?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> Again, that sucks but it does nothing to negate my arguments. Government tyranny is nothing to be taken lightly. Aren't you concerned by the fact that all they have to do it say "virus" and they can proceed to drop trou and crap all over our civil liberties?



I just want us to get past this virus, so we can care about the stupid bullshit again, but Trump has no intention of doing what it would take to get to that point, he'd rather ensure that the economy doesn't stop flourishing, but the economy can be recovered, people that die of this virus can't be brought back to life.

Anyway I think we've both made our points clear, hopefully you understand you made a lot of incorrect assumptions about me, and maybe you think twice before painting blanket statements over any commenter who says something that doesn't jive with your world view.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> I just want us to get past this virus, so we can care about the stupid bullshit again, but Trump has no intention of doing what it would take to get to that point, he'd rather ensure that the economy doesn't stop flourishing, but the economy can be recovered, people that die of this virus can't be brought back to life.



Civil liberties are "stupid bullshit?" are you arguing that freedom isn't worth dying for?

Also, do some research on how many people die in economic depressions


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> Civil liberties are "stupid bullshit?" are you arguing that freedom isn't worth dying for?


I meant more about Trump's taxes and all that nonsense lol.  Don't be so purposefully dense.


----------



## RickFryMcFly (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> I meant more about Trump's taxes and all that nonsense lol.  Don't be so purposefully dense.



How was I supposed to know you meant that? I guess I'm "dense" for not being able to read minds...


----------



## wartutor (Oct 3, 2020)

Well some doctor is now getting millions to make sure they recover. Dont worry taxes will pick up the bill (aka you and me)


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

RickFryMcFly said:


> How was I supposed to know you meant that? I guess I'm "dense" for not being able to read minds...


Well when I say stupid bullshit in this regard, one would hope I mean about all the dumb shit we typically argue about in politics (birth certificate, taxes, recordings of locker room talk, etc. etc.), ya know the stuff that really doesn't matter at the end of the day.  And not the more serious shit.


----------



## weatMod (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> I suppose that's what you get when you try and downplay the virus, hold massive indoor events right now, and only rarely actually wear a mask.
> 
> Though the cynic in me has me wondering if this is a calculated lie, so he can pop back up 2 days later say he's better than ever and it was no big deal, and then use that as supposed proof that the dangers of this virus has been blown out of proportion.


no it's quite the opposite
he will try and sell a  drug treatment or a vax o his  retarded supporters and  the q tardz  
 big pharma  needs to convince at least 50 % of the country to take the vax
they know the country is divided and his supporters don't believe in the virus
recent polls  found only 20% are willing to take their vaccine
they need to try and sell it
and they need to keep they hysteria   going too for the second lockdown so they can get their
agendas passed , agenda 21 agenda 230 ,   the great reset


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 3, 2020)

Lacius said:


> Did you... did you not read anything I typed?
> 
> If we are talking about the death rate just among those tested, it's 208,000 deaths divided by 7,310,000 cases in the USA. That's 2.8%.
> 
> ...





crimpshrine said:


> I get the whole masks are important thing (at least in theory) but in my opinion with that there is so much inconsistency I am not sold on how effective they really are if at all for most people.
> 
> I wear them when I go to the store but based on what I see when I am out there the majority of people I see it probably makes no difference.  They get their shopping cart then boom adjust their mask touch their ears, their face, etc..  And continue to do this while they walk around the store.  A virus particle is only like 60 nano meters in size. if you are a kid who is shedding a ton of virus (unlike older people, from everything I have read they are not really efficient in doing this) and this kid is walking around a store with a mask on he is blasting 60 nano meter sized particles everywhere he goes.  If you happen to walk in his path regardless of the mask (unless it is a real mask made for that stuff that the doctors use) you are going to breath in particles they have expelled.  They land on the cart, you handle it and then touch your face and there you go again.
> 
> The act of wearing a mask could even make the virus spread more for a certain portion of the population.  Due to bad execution of the safety protocol you have been told to follow.  I am no doctor or surgeon but I bet mask effectiveness falls apart due to dozens of mistakes people inadvertently make while using them.





LumInvader said:


> Your original quote that I responded to cited a 0.2% fatality rate, which is flat out wrong:
> 
> If you had just stated the death rate closer to reality, like 99% or so, I wouldn't have challenged your math.
> That's why studies keep coming out proving your assumption wrong?
> ...



So we can all agree the death rate is no larger than 3%? Because, there's tons of percentages flying around. It's still not that deadly of a virus. 3% isn't that much, nor is 1%. 

Also that % of people experiencing neurological problems, from what I've read in the past, are out of the people that were hospitalized and not the general overall population that had the virus.



RickFryMcFly said:


> I love how not wanting to freak everyone out is downplaying it. I also love how you guys lecture about the Trump rallies yet give a free pass to the rioters, looters. and protestors. And yes, the virus is being blown out of proportion for political reasons. If it was as bad as they say, they wouldn't have to cook the numbers by adding people who died of shootings and in motorcycle crashes to the Covid lists.
> 
> Now let's watch the so called loving and tolerant left get giddy at the thought of Trump dying while they paint the right-wing as hateful.



Spot on. The Democrats and Liberals rarely practice what they preach. They simply do whatever feels good or is convenient at the time. Asking them to take a hard moral chance on something is pointless as they change direction like the wind.



RickFryMcFly said:


> No, that incorrect picture was painted when the leftist dinosaur media when they had a stranglehold on the flow of info. And like the leftist dinosaur media, the picture is dying as people realize it is the left who hates everything America stands for.
> 
> Isn't it funny how the anti-war left went MIA under Obama?



Sounds like you "took the red pill". Most responsible people that work hard realize what the freeloading liberals are and what they stand for and want nothing to do with them. Liberals all share a common mindset that doesn't including taking responsibility for their own actions or doing the right thing.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 3, 2020)

Trump announces he has the best cures, the best cures in the world. No one else has cure like he does.


----------



## notimp (Oct 3, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> So we can all agree the death rate is no larger than 3%? Because, there's tons of percentages flying around. It's still not that deadly of a virus. 3% isn't that much, nor is 1%.


Deathrate is below 1%. But thats not necessarily small, neither is 3%.

edit: redone math

Take a family with 4 grandparents, 4 kids of theirs (coupled up in twos), and 2x2 kids of their own (12 people) deathrate of 1% means every eighth family is loosing a family member to Covid. Or would mean if infection rate was 100%.

Here is your graphic comparing it it other causes of death:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...of-u-s-coronavirus-deaths-in-one-graphic.html

edit: And that has a statistical issue tied to it. Deathrate amongst your elderly population is about 5% once infected. So that means, every edit: fifth family in the example would be affected. Every third, or second, if there are more people above 80 years old in your population. (but then the chance of a family still having all 4 grandparents, also drops)
-

Thats the argument if you look at 'human life loss'. If you are more pragmatic (and cynical) you look at life years lost, and those are not as high. But then again, the issue is not so much the deathrate, but the rate of spread.


----------



## Lacius (Oct 3, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> So we can all agree the death rate is no larger than 3%? Because, there's tons of percentages flying around. It's still not that deadly of a virus. 3% isn't that much, nor is 1%.
> 
> Also that % of people experiencing neurological problems, from what I've read in the past, are out of the people that were hospitalized and not the general overall population that had the virus.
> 
> ...


First, I'd like you to concede that the "more tests equals more cases" argument is dead. At the very least, if you still disagree with me, I'd like you to at least articulate my point about percentages using the 100 people example so I at least know that you read my post and you understand what I'm saying.

As for the death rate, you are right that an overall death rate of 1-3% is not very high. The problem is that when you combine that death rate with its infectious rate, you get a lot of deaths. If we don't social distance, wear masks, etc. before a vaccine is released to the public, then pretty much every American is going to catch COVID-19. A 1% death rate of 328 million people is 3.28 million deaths, for example.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Oct 3, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> I suppose that's what you get when you try and downplay the virus, hold massive indoor events right now, and only rarely actually wear a mask.
> 
> Though the cynic in me has me wondering if this is a calculated lie, so he can pop back up 2 days later say he's better than ever and it was no big deal, and then use that as supposed proof that the dangers of this virus has been blown out of proportion.



Didnt Black Lives Matters show its fine to do all those things though?


----------



## Lacius (Oct 3, 2020)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Didnt Black Lives Matters show its fine to do all those things though?


BLM largely took the virus seriously.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/black-lives-matter-protests-didnt-contribute-to-covid19-surge

Edit: Also, if we pretend BLM didn't take the virus seriously, whataboutism demonstrates nothing. Trump is still a moron who brought the virus upon himself and is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, regardless.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Oct 3, 2020)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Didnt Black Lives Matters show its fine to do all those things though?


If your mean the large protests, I must have missed the part where I was in favor of things like those at a time like this (though for what it's worth, at least they were outside, and for the most part they were wearing their masks, so credit there. All the same, not something that should happen right now either)


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 3, 2020)

Enough of the BLM and liberal association. I'm a liberal and cannot stand BLM.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 3, 2020)

Lacius said:


> First, I'd like you to concede that the "more tests equals more cases" argument is dead. At the very least, if you still disagree with me, I'd like you to at least articulate my point about percentages using the 100 people example so I at least know that you read my post and you understand what I'm saying.
> 
> As for the death rate, you are right that an overall death rate of 1-3% is not very high. The problem is that when you combine that death rate with its infectious rate, you get a lot of deaths. If we don't social distance, wear masks, etc. before a vaccine is released to the public, then pretty much every American is going to catch COVID-19. A 1% death rate of 328 million people is 3.28 million deaths, for example.



I'm not conceding to anything nor feel like repeating myself. You disagree with me and that's fine. The way things are designed now and the way the virus spreads wearing a mask and social distancing still isn't going to make the virus vanish. It can spread on surfaces and in the air. Being six feet from someone that exhales isn't enough if you simply walk behind them and then walk right into the air they exhaled. It's been shown to be on imported seafood too, so it can survive on stuff sick people handle for weeks. 

While I agree that masks and distancing help a little bit, it's not a fool proof solution. The only fool proof solution would be to have an actual quarantine situation where everyone is confined to their residences and cannot leave under any circumstance. The facts are that the virus isn't that deadly so a real quarantine isn't really needed, but if this virus was actually really deadly that would be the only way to make sure it doesn't spread.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Enough of the BLM and liberal association. I'm a liberal and cannot stand BLM.



A common sense post from a Liberal. I am impressed.

BLM is a scam created by George Soros.

The leaders of the Democratic party stay in their gated communities safe while they encourage rioting. That shows they do not care about black people it was and is a tactic to get Biden elected. It may actual work so I must applaud them for being smart even if it's an evil smart.


----------



## Lacius (Oct 3, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I'm not conceding to anything nor feel like repeating myself. You disagree with me and that's fine. The way things are designed now and the way the virus spreads wearing a mask and social distancing still isn't going to make the virus vanish. It can spread on surfaces and in the air. Being six feet from someone that exhales isn't enough if you simply walk behind them and then walk right into the air they exhaled. It's been shown to be on imported seafood too, so it can survive on stuff sick people handle for weeks.


The problem is you haven't addressed my point about how "more tests means more cases" is a bad argument when the infection rate as a percentage of tests is increasing. You're just ignoring me. "Nuh uh" isn't a good counter argument.


----------



## Diamedic (Oct 3, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Pretty sad times, when people have to question if a president is actually sick or not.
> 
> I doubt it, but if this is actually a lie, how big would the fallout be if he was caught?



When has he ever gotten any fallout for getting caught for anything?


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

Diamedic said:


> When has he ever gotten any fallout for getting caught for anything?



I guess you've been in a coma. Dems have been trying to nail him with impeachments and fake news this entire term. Is it his fault their lies didn't succeed? Nope.

It's funny how Democrats accuse others of what they do. They're the ones who lie, so now they got it in people's minds that Trump is lying about having the virus. Sure it make a ton of since for him to be laying in a hospital bed before the election. That'll sure rack up the votes.

So you Dems believe in the virus until Trump has it now it's fake. Your logic is so screwed up it's hilarious.


----------



## Diamedic (Oct 3, 2020)

Well Donald said the cure for Covid is only weeks away during the debate, so lucky him! He can always test out his injecting bleach theory.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 3, 2020)

Why isn't he taking hydroxychloroquine? I thought it was supposed to be a covid killer? Instead he's taking the other experimental drugs. Maybe his hydroxy claims were lies after all.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 3, 2020)

I am curious for those in the USA how many know others that have had Covid-19 that are tied to you?  I myself have had like 12 in extended family - outside of my house.   Only 2 of them knew it was covid-19 at the time, 1 was back in April and was tested and 1 a month ago because they got tested at college.  Major outbreaks in college, but in the state I am in 0 have ever needed to go to the hospital, less harmful then the flu statistically for that age group.  

The other 10 was all from anti-body tests how they found out, it was a domino effect.  1 was at the doctor complaining about losing their sense of smell back in June from allergies and they gave them the antibody test and it came back they had antibodies.  So then the light bulbs started going off for the others.  And then they all eventually did the anti-body test.   1 of them was an adult who was 75 with COPD who just thought it was allergies at the time and it lasted like 2 weeks.  All the others just thought it was common allergies at the time or that they ate something bad. (A couple had stomach issues back in May/June)  I don't have a lot of faith in the 14 day quarantine unless they re-test, my relative in college (they require negative test to come back) did not test negative till like 24 days.  This person was asymptomatic, with young adults like this it is not the least bit surprising they spread it so much and from everything I have read young people are like factories for this virus compared to older people.     And I know at least 5 from work.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgcat said:


> Why isn't he taking hydroxychloroquine? I thought it was supposed to be a covid killer? Instead he's taking the other experimental drugs. Maybe his hydroxy claims were lies after all.



The data is out there, you still trying to bark up that tree?  Really makes you look like you have TDS by doing that.  It works and has been shown to work in at least 70+ studies at this point.  And is safe, you should be questioning why our FDA screwed up so bad.


----------



## xpoverzion (Oct 3, 2020)

Hope he dies from this virus.  That would be poetic justice like nothing we have ever seen before!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 3, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Why isn't he taking hydroxychloroquine? I thought it was supposed to be a covid killer? Instead he's taking the other experimental drugs. Maybe his hydroxy claims were lies after all.


Didn't he stop taking it back in May?


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 3, 2020)

xpoverzion said:


> Hope he dies from this virus.  That would be poetic justice like nothing we have ever seen before!



Well you have probably .001 percent chance of your dreams coming true.  TDS is real.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 3, 2020)

Anyone who says he should've worn a mask forgot that masks don't protect the wearer.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 3, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Anyone who says he should've worn a mask forgot that masks don't protect the wearer.



Yeah but they do protect others. If they all wore masks, way less of them would be infected. Bunch of incompetents.


----------



## GhostLatte (Oct 3, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Yeah but they do protect others. If they all wore masks, way less of them would be infected. Bunch of incompetents.


There's not point trying to tell these people what's factual. They'll just pick and choose whatever they want to believe to suit their narrative.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 3, 2020)

GhostLatte said:


> There's not point trying to tell these people what's factual. They'll just pick and choose whatever they want to believe to suit their narrative.



So what is actually factual?  Do you have links to these studies where they have discovered the viral dose level required to infect someone with Covid-19?  Because last I checked that has not been figured out yet.

So if you don't have that, how can you actually determine with science that surgical masks and home made masks are effectively decreasing the spread of this virus?  I mean it sounds good, but where is the science from start to finish.   Not just a snot simulation in a mask.

Doctors won't go into a room with a positive covid-19 patient without an N95 mask.  That tells me more.

If an asymptomatic (non sneezing, non coughing) 19 year old male is in a room with a surgical mask.  And he is alive and breathing he is filling the space he is in with virus particles they go right through his mask.  Masks do not stop these from coming through, is it enough to prevent someone else in that same room from being able to get infected that is also wearing the same type of mask?

Without viral dose level of covid-19 needed to become infected I don't think you can even begin to try to determine that without guessing.

Have not seen anything at all that comes close to being able to answer that question yet.

I do see things like this though:

A new analysis of 172 studies, funded by the World Health Organization, confirms what scientists have said for months: N95 and other respirator masks are far superior to surgical or cloth masks in protecting essential medical workers against the coronavirus.

“It’s been disappointing that both the W.H.O. and the C.D.C. have suggested that surgical masks are adequate, and they’re clearly not,” said David Michaels, a professor at George Washington University who headed the Occupational Safety and Health Administration under President Obama.

“Reliance on surgical masks has no doubt led to many workers being infected,” he said.

This is of course in context to medical workers, but again as far as I am concerned you probably are as protected as having a lucky rabbits foot at this point if you are in an *enclosed *space with someone who is positive that is breathing, and if it is a child or young adult it is even worse because they are more likely to be virus creation factories.  With surgical and homemade masks.


----------



## RandomUser (Oct 3, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Plus, if you're already made up your mind you'll just try to discredit any sources I might give you, regardless if they are correct or not.
> 
> Learn how to research things, you might learn something.


What you have described is the backfire effect in action and unfortunately many members on here seem to suffer from it, knowingly or unknowingly. Unfortunately not much you can do about it. It is also seem to be often confused as the dunning kruger effect.
You can read up on the backfire effect if you like and you may even come to the same conclusion or not.


----------



## IncredulousP (Oct 4, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> What you have described is the backfire effect in action and unfortunately many members on here seem to suffer from it, knowingly or unknowingly. Unfortunately not much you can do about it. It is also seem to be often confused as the dunning kruger effect.
> You can read up on the backfire effect if you like and you may even come to the same conclusion or not.


Very informative post, this explains a lot. Thank you.


----------



## RandomUser (Oct 4, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Very informative post, this explains a lot. Thank you.


You're welcome.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 4, 2020)

*Italian study finds that only 12% of Covid-19 patients have fully recovered after ~60 days*
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351

*German study finds 60% of recovered patients have myocardial inflammation*
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916


gregory-samba said:


> *So we can all agree the death rate is no larger than 3%?* Because, there's tons of percentages flying around. It's still not that deadly of a virus. 3% isn't that much, nor is 1%



Correct, Covid-19's fatality rate likely falls within the 1% range, give or take a half percent. That's still roughly 10x higher than influenza.  While the vast majority of patients do survive, studies show that a considerable number of survivors suffer from secondary conditions lasting for weeks, months, or even permanently after recovery.


----------



## chrisrlink (Oct 4, 2020)

ghjfdtg said:


> No one should wish anyone else death. He deserves a lesson though.


well except for dictators who oppress their people like Xi and kim jon un i would understand wanting them dead as for the president i want him to survive for the sole fact when he gets out of the WH he'll get arrested on tax fraud charges


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 4, 2020)

RandomUser said:


> What you have described is the backfire effect in action and unfortunately many members on here seem to suffer from it, knowingly or unknowingly. Unfortunately not much you can do about it. It is also seem to be often confused as the dunning kruger effect.
> You can read up on the backfire effect if you like and you may even come to the same conclusion or not.



A companion article to the backfire effect:

*How Negative News Distorts Our Thinking*
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01909/how-negative-news-distorts-our-thinking

Reading both articles helps to explain why there are so many dumb-as-a-doorknob conservatives and liberals.  Too much programming leads to ideological malfunction.


----------



## RandomUser (Oct 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> A companion article to the backfire effect:
> 
> *How Negative News Distorts Our Thinking*
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01909/how-negative-news-distorts-our-thinking
> ...


That is a good reading material, thank you for posting it.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

Biden apparently has cold like symptoms. Called it a day early only a little after 9 am. (I'm not in any way claiming he has covid, runny nose is not a symptom of covid) 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-off-calling-lid-seen-video-runny-nose-video/


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Biden apparently has cold like symptoms. Called it a day early only a little after 9 am. (I'm not in any way claiming he has covid, runny nose is not a symptom of covid)
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-off-calling-lid-seen-video-runny-nose-video/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit
"_*The Gateway Pundit*_ is an American far-right[3][4] news and opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods and spreading hoaxes"
Didn't we just have a discussion about fake news?


----------



## KingVamp (Oct 5, 2020)

Joe tested negative again.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit
> "_*The Gateway Pundit*_ is an American far-right[3][4] news and opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods and spreading hoaxes"
> Didn't we just have a discussion about fake news?



I hope you grow a brain one day. "Far right" dont lie like your side does. There's a video, multiple in fact. I'm sure they're all "doctored". But here it is again

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/280899940

I mean jesus he's human you should say so he has a cold no big deal. Instead you're trying to act like he's superman. You need help.

Say they're doctored. Because it'll just prove how stupid you are. Otherwise you owe an apology.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I hope Sleepy Joe doesn't have to drop out of the election.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If fake news CNN was legit they'd be covering too. It's amazing how Democrats don't even notice there's never a negative thing said about their party. They actually think they're just great awesome kindhearted people. No they just have the media covering for them 24/7.


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Oct 5, 2020)

Trump: NOOOO! YOU CANT JUST INFECT ME AFTER DOWNPLAYING THE VIRUS NOOO

Covid: haha infection go beep beep beep


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

Meanwhile we got Bill Gates saying we don't have a choice when it comes to vaccine. Who the fuck is this dude always pushing vaccines on people. Another crazy liberal. Maybe it's a conspiracy or true I don't know but I heard he doesn't even vaccinate his own kids.



So if what he's saying is true they will come to your house and stab you with a needle, which is not constitutional. Otherwise we do absolutely have a choice. A virus that kills 1-2% of people that get it, don't think so. I'm ashamed to own a PC.

I realize there'll be a vaccine and some people will want to voluntary take it that's not what I'm talking about. it's forcing everyone to take it I don't agree with. We're not china.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Meanwhile we got Bill Gates saying we don't have a choice when it comes to vaccine. Who the fuck is this dude always pushing vaccines on people. Another crazy liberal. Maybe it's a conspiracy or true I don't know but I heard he doesn't even vaccinate his own kids.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





how many red pills ya on now buddy?


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

omgcat said:


> how many red pills ya on now buddy?


all the pills, he linked 4chan for politics. Look at the previous page


----------



## omgcat (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> all the pills, he linked 4chan for politics. Look at the previous page



Right? 

>claims CNN is fake news
>Links 4chan as an alternative

once again

>*ISHYGDDT*


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I hope you grow a brain one day. "Far right" dont lie like your side does. There's a video, multiple in fact. I'm sure they're all "doctored". But here it is again
> 
> https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/280899940
> 
> ...


You linked 4chan out of EVERYTHING to use as evidence. Why do you trust a random person on the internet. anyways, let me go ahead and debunk the main image. Oh yes I'll do it for you for free! I'll burn my time just to explain why your wrong.
(not that I've done it enough)
So let's started. Tyler Pager is a reporter from Bloomberg news. Not much issues here, since they actually are considered "news" and not a activist group (like your fun varis or what ever it was)
Overall Tyler seems reputable enough with his reporting considering cross checking.
Now who is Ali Alexander character. Uh, there is not much information on the guy.
already that's a warning.
Okay well let's look at the bottom right of that video, perhaps we can look at it.
Which seems to be his name with .org
Oh boy...
OH BOY
So, looking for the website, let's just say.
There's a lot of red flags.
First off the website is incomplete if you attempt to use it, and redirects you.
second his courses are $199 which is more than questionable.
third issue is the paying price monthly of 25 dollars per month. for shit. that doesn't make any sense.
Okay enough bashing on the website. Let's look more into this guy.
So what about his about page?
from twitter his about is:General in the Culture War.
Okay that's... interesting. what about instagram
twitter:I handle complex situations for powerful people
Okay... not horrid, but also questionable.
Okay now to youtube
youtube:I do politics, media, and startups. MAGA (patreon link)
.... oh....
Well okay....  questionable. so... he's supposed to be this guy giving as it is... but he is a Trump supporter... Now everyone has bias, however already there is massive issues.
If the guy isn't a news reporter, but more out sell a narrative, then it's best to not give things factually to his base...


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

Before I move on, let's check his facebook
"Ali is a well known conservative political consultant and entrepreneur. His commentary provides an insider's perspective on electoral politics and legislation."
yeah that doesn't really help, since it's getting more clear he's out to sell you on his politics. not actually be factual. News reporters a paid to due news. this guy is paid to provide stories.
So... Yeah I don't owe you an apology, your source has become invalidated.



oh and should I forget to mention that he doesn't state news in his youtube about? Pretty sure if you were a facts guy, that would be in your description.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

now onto your points since I just ripped through your source... again. Try a little harder please.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> I hope you grow a brain one day.


Perhaps you should check yourself for a brain. free thought doesn't seem to come easily to you.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> "Far right" dont lie like your side does. There's a video, multiple in fact. I'm sure they're all "doctored". But here it is again
> https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/280899940
> I mean jesus he's human you should say so he has a cold no big deal. Instead you're trying to act like he's superman. You need help.


already stated above, your source is bad, and already showed why it's bad.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> Say they're doctored. Because it'll just prove how stupid you are. Otherwise you owe an apology.


LMAO.
Well, let's just say. It's "fake news" in the words of our president. It's just sad that it also describes all your arguments. Don't worry, you don't owe an apology.



ForgotWhoIam said:


> I hope Sleepy Joe doesn't have to drop out of the election.


I have nothing of value to say. Other than I don't think he will.


ForgotWhoIam said:


> If fake news CNN was legit they'd be covering too. It's amazing how Democrats don't even notice there's never a negative thing said about their party. They actually think they're just great awesome kindhearted people. No they just have the media covering for them 24/7.


or perhaps your source is wrong and that's why they didn't cover it? Perhaps, Just MAYBE the reality is, and this is hard to stomach. They actually provide news. Course I don't have nearly as much trust in CNN. I generally prefer cross checking before I go check CNN, since to me they aren't as trustworthy. Doesn't mean they aren't period. But it's better to cross check. If multiple large outlets are covering it that have a solid reputation on the line. Then it's pretty easy to see if there is some attempt at bias. But most of the ones I do check, still keep bias out. Fox news however, perhaps maybe you should turn it down and check other places. I heard they aren't really great at the news thing and more opinion than news. (I'm saying don't watch fox. they aren't out to give all news)


----------



## KingVamp (Oct 5, 2020)

See here? Another example of democrats following their leaders. Anyway, time to find more random right wing articles splattered across the internet.


----------



## Jacob9527 (Oct 5, 2020)

He should wear a mask...but it's too late


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Meanwhile we got Bill Gates saying we don't have a choice when it comes to vaccine. Who the fuck is this dude always pushing vaccines on people. Another crazy liberal. *Maybe it's a conspiracy or true I don't know but I heard he doesn't even vaccinate his own kids.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Completely absurd and untrue.

*False claim: Bill Gates refused to vaccinate his children*
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...fused-to-vaccinate-his-children-idUSKBN22B26Z


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I hope you grow a brain one day. "Far right" dont lie like your side does. There's a video, multiple in fact. I'm sure they're all "doctored". But here it is again
> 
> https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/280899940
> 
> ...



An easy way for the Liberal mind to discredit anything they may not agree with is to default to their built in programming to bash the source of the information. It's just another way they are built to dismiss things they don't agree with regardless if the information is true or not.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

omgcat said:


> how many red pills ya on now buddy?



Just like from the beginning you've got nothing of substance just a weak attempt at an attack. No rebuttal to my posts just shredding your fraud party. Just a weak attempt at an attack. I guess you finished your trolls book on what to do when backed into a corner where it says "if all else fails and you can't rebut anything your opponent says just give up and try to attack your opponent"

How many white flags you waving? 1.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> A companion article to the backfire effect:
> 
> *How Negative News Distorts Our Thinking*
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01909/how-negative-news-distorts-our-thinking
> ...



This is a good example of why people think small issues are a big deal. They go on about some minor issues that effects barely anyone just because it was posted in the news or on social media and their zombie circle consumed every last bit of it. Good link, was informative. I for one always like to understand the underlying psychological mechanics of how things are designed and why they are designed that way.



LumInvader said:


> *Italian study finds that only 12% of Covid-19 patients have fully recovered after ~60 days*
> https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351
> 
> *German study finds 60% of recovered patients have myocardial inflammation*
> ...



I've seen these figures elsewhere, but it usually focuses on the people who knew they were sick and the people who were hospitalized. The main percentage of people that get infected don't even know they were infected. Since most people who get covid don't show symptoms I question the validity of these tests and results when they aren't even testing the majority of people who get it.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

I don't care if Bill Gates was a Republican I am going to be leary of anyone so obsessed with vaccines. He's been talking about vaccinations long before the coronavirus he is vaccination obsessed.

A computer guy talking about vaccines is about as crazy as a doctor talking about Windows 10. Stay in your lane. And why don't people say "wait he's not a doctor to be telling us to take all these vaccines" and to say we don't have a choice really? If Dems weren't so biased it should be a bipartisan issue. Everyone should say "Bill Gates needs to STFU".

So I want to know are Dems pro being forced to take vaccines? It sure seems that way. Maybe your party doesn't care about personal freedom any more.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I've seen these figures elsewhere, but it usually focuses on the people who knew they were sick and the people who were hospitalized. The main percentage of people that get infected don't even know they were infected.* Since most people who get covid don't show symptoms* I question the validity of these tests and results when they aren't even testing the majority of people who get it.


IIRC, it was once believed that most infections are asymptomatic, but that assumption appears to be inaccurate:

*40–45% who contract new coronavirus are asymptomatic*
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/40-45-who-contract-new-coronavirus-are-asymptomatic

The German study was also keen to point out:


> *Conclusions and Relevance*  In this study of a cohort of German patients recently recovered from COVID-19 infection, CMR revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and time from the original diagnosis. These findings indicate the need for ongoing investigation of the long-term cardiovascular consequences of COVID-19.


They clearly did their homework here.  In addition, 2/3 of the patients didn't require hospitalization, so while the sample size may lack pin-point accuracy, it's clear that the study was targeting all symptomatic patients, not just the subset of those requiring hospitalization.  As far as these studies being invalid, I don't share your conclusion.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I don't care if Bill Gates was a Republican I am going to be leary of anyone so obsessed with vaccines. He's been talking about vaccinations long before the coronavirus he is vaccination obsessed.
> 
> A computer guy talking about vaccines is about as crazy as a doctor talking about Windows 10. Stay in your lane. And why don't people say "wait he's not a doctor to be telling us to take all these vaccines" and to say we don't have a choice really? If Dems weren't so biased it should be a bipartisan issue. Everyone should say "Bill Gates needs to STFU".
> 
> So I want to know are Dems pro being forced to take vaccines? It sure seems that way. Maybe your party doesn't care about personal freedom any more.



(Man talking to his Wife)

"Look honey, all my friends online that were just constitutional scholars are now infectious disease experts!"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



LumInvader said:


> IIRC, it was once believed that most infections are asymptomatic, but that assumption appears to be inaccurate:
> 
> *40–45% who contract new coronavirus are asymptomatic*
> https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/40-45-who-contract-new-coronavirus-are-asymptomatic
> ...



Interesting. Yes it was once thought that the majority of people who get COVID don't show any symptoms, but with all the conflicting studies and information it's hard to keep track of what's valid or not. The last thing I need is any new cardiac symptoms, but the sample size (how many people they tested) in your article isn't really that many people. You'd think you'd need to test thousands of people to get a more accurate picture. Honestly, with how much the facts change and then the following advice changes to adapt to the new findings I have a hard time taking anything that is published as correct. The trend has been that what we know this week is most likely wrong.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Interesting. Yes it was once thought that the majority of people who get COVID don't show any symptoms, but with all the conflicting studies and information it's hard to keep track of what's valid or not. The last thing I need is any new cardiac symptoms, but the sample size (how many people they tested) in your article isn't really that many people. You'd think you'd need to test thousands of people to get a more accurate picture. Honestly, with how much the facts change and then the following advice changes to adapt to the new findings I have a hard time taking anything that is published as correct. The trend has been that what we know this week is most likely wrong.


For me, I just hope one of these upcoming vaccines actually works so I don't have to worry about catching this thing anymore.

Regarding margin of error, the MoE for the Italian study was roughly 8% and 9% for the German study.  For the purposes of this discussion it's preferable to have a sample size of 400 or more, but for the team's conducting these studies, their goals are detection and analysis and not so much how their samples apply to larger populations.  We care about that here ofc because this is the politics board.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 6, 2020)

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (_36_). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. *Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.*

We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2). However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched.



Since Covid-19 has been confirmed that it can be airborne in a room with no airflow for several hours, this seems to confirm virus particles of less than 5 nano meters.

So if the CDC says surgical masks will not stop the transmission of influenza, that would then apply to Covid-19 also.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 6, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> TDS is real.



Leave it to Trump supporters to come up with a self-incriminating term like TDS. You guys can't even get an insult right.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 6, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Leave it to Trump supporters to come up with a self-incriminating term like TDS. You guys can't even get an insult right.



LOL, you don't have to be a Trump supporter to see it is real with certain people.  Heck, I did not even vote for the guy in 2016.

All Trump has to do to send people into a tizzy is comment on something.

And why would you JUST quote me responding with TDS is real?

I was responding to someone saying:

xpoverzion said:
Hope he dies from this virus. That would be poetic justice like nothing we have ever seen before!


My response was:

*Well you have probably .001 percent chance of your dreams coming true. TDS is real.*


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 6, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Leave it to Trump supporters to come up with a self-incriminating term like TDS. You guys can't even get an insult right.


It took me an embarrassing amount of time to realize that you were talking about Trump Derangement Syndrome (which _is_ real).


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 6, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It took me an embarrassing amount of time to realize that you were talking about Trump Derangement Syndrome (which _is_ real).


Anyone who behaves irrationally against or_ in favor_ for something is exhibiting some form of derangement.  I've literally witnessed an argument between two people who were accusing the other of suffering from opposite forms of TDS.

It was one of those rare examples where both sides were correct.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> It took me an embarrassing amount of time to realize that you were talking about Trump Derangement Syndrome (which _is_ real).



 You're right. It's VERY real. Those damn Trump supporters are absolutely deranged, just like their orange Jesus.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

What's the term for crazy liberals who are triggered by Trump's every move word and action and the fact that he is still breathing?

I guess a special abbreviation or word isn't necessary. I've just described about any Democrat.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> What's the term for crazy liberals who are triggered by Trump's every move word and action and the fact that he is still breathing?
> 
> I guess a special abbreviation or word isn't necessary. I've just described about any Democrat.



You are kidding, right?  I cannot tell. I have to assume you are being sarcastic, even pointing out TDS upsets them. 

Wishing death on people is normal for most people, not crazy at all man.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> You are kidding, right?  I cannot tell. I have to assume you are being sarcastic, even pointing out TDS upsets them.
> 
> Wishing death on people is normal for most people, not crazy at all man.



What are you babbling about.... No I'm not kidding Democrats are completely triggered by Trump.

If someone cuts you off in traffic you may go "I wish they were dead" but it's just a saying, you don't ACTUALLY want to go to their house and kill them, unless you're nuts. While Dems were celebrating when Trump had covid and were actively hoping he would die. Do you not know the difference?


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> What are you babbling about.... No I'm not kidding Democrats are completely triggered by Trump.



You mean just like Republicans are triggered by Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Biden, etc. etc. etc. Try to not be such an obvious hypocrite. M'kay? Thanks.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You mean just like Republicans are triggered by Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Biden, etc. etc. etc. Try to not be such an obvious hypocrite. M'kay? Thanks.



I said it myself if Biden was in the hospital I wouldn't wish he would die, but that's all your party did earlier in this thread go look it's embarrassing.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> What are you babbling about.... No I'm not kidding Democrats are completely triggered by Trump.
> 
> If someone cuts you off in traffic you may go "I wish they were dead" but it's just a saying, you don't ACTUALLY want to go to their house and kill them, unless you're nuts. While Dems were celebrating when Trump had covid and were actively hoping he would die. Do you not know the difference?



You said "What's the term for crazy liberals who are triggered by Trump's every move word and action and the fact that he is still breathing?"

That's is why I asked if you were kidding.  You seriously have never heard of TDS?  (Trump Derangement Syndrome)

I thought you were being sarcastic.  And obviously I was being sarcastic about wishing death upon people, that is totally not normal for balanced happy people.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I said it myself if Biden was in the hospital I wouldn't wish he would die, but that's all your party did earlier in this thread go look it's embarrassing.



That is a flat out lie. That is not all "my party" did. Way to generalize everyone into the same group to fit your own agenda, based on the comments of what amounts to an INCREDIBLY small number of people. I'm a Dem, I can't stand BLM, and I never once wished death upon Trump. There goes your entire motive... Cheers!


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> You said "What's the term for crazy liberals who are triggered by Trump's every move word and action and the fact that he is still breathing?"
> 
> That's is why I asked if you were kidding.  You seriously have never heard of TDS?  (Trump Derangement Syndrome)
> 
> I thought you were being sarcastic.  And obviously I was being sarcastic about wishing death upon people, that is totally not normal for balanced happy people.



I honestly hadn't, I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be an insult to Trump haters or supporters. The first post of this page is a Democrat defending TDS so it confused me.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



D34DL1N3R said:


> That is a flat out lie. That is not all "my party" did. Way to generalize everyone into the same group to fit your own agenda, based on the comments of what amounts to an INCREDIBLY small number of people. I'm a Dem, I can't stand BLM, and I never once wished death upon Trump. There goes your entire motive... Cheers!



I guess these posts below aren't real. I'll give you this you have a little bit more sense than most Democrats. Most believe everything the media tells them including BLM, Trump is Satan. But maybe you should take a look at which party you're siding with you're on the side without morals. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Osakasan said:


> On one hand, i'm laughting my ass off and wishing him to suffer every single symptom under the sun
> 
> On the other, i can't shake the feeling that he's lying and this is just a ploy to downlay the virus and get more votes.





Seliph said:


> oh awesome






DJPlace said:


> well he may die with out getting shot by a bullet? (i know that was harsh but i had to say it has a joke)





templeofhylia said:


> the joy this brings me tho



Making jokes...



regnad said:


> Who's to say Trump will? He's got three risk factors: he's elderly, he's obese, and he's low income.



This is just the first few pages.


----------



## Seliph (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Making jokes...


Ew I'm not a democrat


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I guess these posts below aren't real. I'll give you this you have a little bit more sense than most Democrats. Most believe everything the media tells them including BLM, Trump is Satan. But maybe you should take a look at which party you're siding with you're on the side without morals.



You very clearly stated that is ALL the Dems are doing. Which is a flat out lie. You showed me 4 people out of millions. Lmao. Whatever floats your boat. And this entire morals thing? As if Republicans have more?


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

I take it back, you're no smarter than the average Democrat. You still believe most of what you hear on fake news channels. Stay a Democrat.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 7, 2020)

trump's high out of his mind on dexa, but when the crash happens he's gonna look a little like this:


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I take it back, you're no smarter than the average Democrat. You still believe most of what you hear on fake news channels. Stay a Democrat.



Like I was saying... Way to go.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I take it back, you're no smarter than the average Democrat. You still believe most of what you hear on fake news channels. Stay a Democrat.



yeah "fake news" https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/9177...s-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

make sure you don't spend all your money on gold and male enhancement supplements.


----------



## Osakasan (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Making jokes...



Uh? No, i'm not making jokes, i really want the adulterous, misogynist, xenophobic, classist, lying, fascist cheeto in chief to suffer all symptoms under the sun and, right after he has suffered enough, experience an horrible death

Yes yes, tolerant left yadda yadda, i'm done with not being hateful agaisnt alt-right dictators wannabe. They hate my guts by virtue of me not being right-leaning, i'm just hating them back


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

This is the only good Democrat post.


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 7, 2020)

Osakasan said:


> Uh? No, i'm not making jokes, i really want the adulterous, misogynist, xenophobic, classist, lying, fascist cheeto in chief to suffer all symptoms under the sun and, right after he has suffered enough, experience an horrible death
> 
> Yes yes, tolerant left yadda yadda, i'm done with not being hateful agaisnt alt-right dictators wannabe. They hate my guts by virtue of me not being right-leaning, i'm just hating them back


Honestly, this. Trump's inaction, downplaying, and other choices during this pandemic has cost the lives of countless people and caused America to have the highest rate of infected. The idea of feeling sympathy towards him is laughable at best because this is completely his own doing. If he dies from Covid, then maybe his supporters will smarten up and start taking it seriously. Or just make up another conspiracy about the Clintons or something stupid.
Side note, I've always found the term "tolerant left" to be extremely annoying and I don't think I've ever really heard that many people on the Left using it unironically. Maybe it's because I am deep into the down-left end of the political specrum or something but it just seems like a madeup term to mock the Left.


----------



## crimpshrine (Oct 7, 2020)

Anyone OK with wishing death on anyone is bad.  It's pretty simple.  But I don't expect anything less with those irrational people.

And it does not surprise me there are those that still blame the governors of this countries actions on our president.

Data so far does not really support 200K deaths from Covid.  Something is fishy with that.  I think a large chunk of the 200K would have died regardless of Covid or they got it wrong.  In a country like the USA that has 250,000+ deaths attributed to medical error/malpractice PER YEAR. (some say it is as high as 440K per year)  It is reasonable.  Meaning the medical field gets things wrong all of the time.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 7, 2020)

crimpshrine said:


> Anyone OK with wishing death on anyone is bad.  It's pretty simple.  But I don't expect anything less with those irrational people.
> 
> And it does not surprise me there are those that still blame the governors of this countries actions on our president.
> 
> ...


The chart you posted isn't making the argument you think it is.

What it suggests is that the "Underlying Cause of Death" total may not be accounting for additional Covid-19 deaths.  It's not suggesting that the 210,000 Covid-19 deaths is an erroneous figure or that Covid-19 is even the source of the perceived error.  With America in a virtual lockdown since March, the 2020 monthly totals would likely reflect a reduction in influenza deaths (via social distancing and masks) and accident related deaths (reduced traffic and outdoor activities), which would at least provide a partial explanation for a lower deaths total.  Still, that wouldn't account for  the total number of deaths that the chart claims is missing.

I visited both links from the graphic, but wasn't able to verify it's data, thus I leave that to you since you're the one sourcing it.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

Trump Republicans are THE single largest group of compulsive hypocrites on the planet. We all know full well if Biden had Covid, not all, but the majority would be wishing death.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 7, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Trump Republicans are THE single largest group of compulsive hypocrites on the planet. We all know full well if Biden had Covid, not all, but the majority would be wishing death.


No.


----------



## Seliph (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.


Definitely yes


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 7, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Definitely yes


Not me.


----------



## KingVamp (Oct 7, 2020)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I've always found the term "tolerant left" to be extremely annoying and I don't think I've ever really heard that many people on the Left using it unironically. Maybe it's because I am deep into the down-left end of the political specrum or something but it just seems like a madeup term to mock the Left.


I don't normally see this exact wording, but this is probably about the paradox of tolerance. Taking tolerance to the extreme. Tolerance of intolerance.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Not me.



Learn some reading comprehension. I said not all, but the majority.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 7, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Learn some reading comprehension. I said not all, but the majority.


Not to this extent.


----------



## Seliph (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Not to this extent.


Definetly to this extent


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 7, 2020)

Seliph said:


> Definetly to this extent


No.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> No.



I will even say to a FAR, FAR greater extent.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 7, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I will even say to a FAR, FAR greater extent.


No.


----------



## Doran754 (Oct 7, 2020)

Democrat supporting rioters have been murdering trump supporters, looting and burning down cities for around 3 months, but sure republican trump supporters would be totally wishing death on Biden. That's some weird ass backwards logic if I've ever seen it, just admit you wish death on a guy because you disagree with his politics, then get back to dying your pink hair and policing pronouns knowing you're not a hypocrite about one less thing in life.


----------



## Spider_Man (Oct 7, 2020)

i cant believe America lets this idiot speak un aided, I mean some of the utter bollocks he comes out with, i cant believe he tried to make himself look better by apparently having "covid" putting others at risk, him thinking he is a true leader and he is taking the risk and to top it off then claiming he thinks he's immune, what a total toss pot.......... reminds me of someone.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

I don't wish death upon Biden because I don't know the guy. I reserve the right to wish death on people that fuck me over big time in my personal life. I don't hinge on politicians every last words or get that caught up in the stupid drama. I have though heard the Left often cite how tolerant they are and then turn around and make excuses of why they are intolerant, usually in the same paragraph.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

Biden alone, is not really a threat. He will be a puppet President everybody knows that. It's the people telling him what to do that are the threat to this country. This is assuming he wins I don't know who's going to win honestly.


----------



## Osakasan (Oct 7, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't wish death upon Biden because I don't know the guy. I reserve the right to wish death on people that fuck me over big time in my personal life. I don't hinge on politicians every last words or get that caught up in the stupid drama. I have though heard the Left often cite how tolerant they are and then turn around and make excuses of why they are intolerant, usually in the same paragraph.



We left leaning people are intolerant to those who are literally detrimental to other people's life. When you have subhumans like the detritus in chief doing and saying fascist shit it makes my blood boil. 

I have disabled friends, homosexual friends and my parents are severely ill after more than 40 years of hard work, those three groups are actively hated by that clown president and those who he share ideology with. It sickens me, and im done being toleran with that shit. Wanna call me an hypocrite? Go ahead, at the very least i know im hating an ideology based on make people miserable, while that human waste hates life itself


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

Osakasan said:


> We left leaning people are intolerant to those who are literally detrimental to other people's life. When you have subhumans like the detritus in chief doing and saying fascist shit it makes my blood boil.
> 
> I have disabled friends, homosexual friends and my parents are severely ill after more than 40 years of hard work, those three groups are actively hated by that clown president and those who he share ideology with. It sickens me, and im done being toleran with that shit. Wanna call me an hypocrite? Go ahead, at the very least i know im hating an ideology based on make people miserable, while that human waste hates life itself



At least you're admitting it and not trying to deceive others by saying one thing and doing the polar opposite.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 7, 2020)

Osakasan said:


> We left leaning people are intolerant to those who are literally detrimental to other people's life. When you have subhumans like the detritus in chief doing and saying fascist shit it makes my blood boil.


Friendly reminder that the creator of fascism, Giovanni Gentile, studied under Karl Marx and based most of his ideology after the Communist Manifesto.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 7, 2020)

Osakasan said:


> We left leaning people are intolerant to those who are literally detrimental to other people's life. When you have subhumans like the detritus in chief doing and saying fascist shit it makes my blood boil.
> 
> I have disabled friends, homosexual friends and my parents are severely ill after more than 40 years of hard work, those three groups are actively hated by that clown president and those who he share ideology with. It sickens me, and im done being toleran with that shit. Wanna call me an hypocrite? Go ahead, at the very least i know im hating an ideology based on make people miserable, while that human waste hates life itself



Link to where Trump said he hated disabled or homosexual people? Not fake news either I want to hear it from Trump himself, otherwise you can't prove your own statements. You've gone overboard in hate without care of if it's even real. But keep up the hate if it makes you feel proud for whatever reason. You're not being a hypocrite you're just being plain dumb. Just because Trump wasn't interested in transexuals using any bathroom they want like Obama doesn't mean he hates homosexuals. He has more important stuff to take care of as President. Besides some perverted straight guy can say he idenfies as a women just to spy on women in their bathroom and those type of stories did happen. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraSUPRA said:


> Friendly reminder that the creator of fascism, Giovanni Gentile, studied under Karl Marx and based most of his ideology after the Communist Manifesto.



The average Democrat that visits this site doesn't understand a word of your entire post. Maybe the words "the" and "and" is about it.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Friendly reminder that the creator of fascism, Giovanni Gentile, studied under Karl Marx and based most of his ideology after the Communist Manifesto.



You're correct. The Democrats claim that Conservatives are Facist is just another lie. It's their ideology, not ours.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ForgotWhoIam said:


> Link to where Trump said he hated disabled or homosexual people? Not fake news either I want to hear it from Trump himself, otherwise you can't prove your own statements. You've gone overboard in hate without care of if it's even real. But keep up the hate if it makes you feel proud for whatever reason. You're not being a hypocrite you're just being plain dumb. Just because Trump wasn't interested in transexuals using any bathroom they want like Obama doesn't mean he hates homosexuals. He has more important stuff to take care of as President. Besides some perverted straight guy can say he idenfies as a women just to spy on women in their bathroom and those type of stories did happen.



Most of the things the Democrats and Liberals claim Trump said never actually came out of his mouth. Or at least not how they claim it did. Lies upon lies upon lies. That's the only thing you'll find researching into "Did Trump say X" ...


----------



## Osakasan (Oct 7, 2020)

If you're not a trumpist, you learn not to believe anything the sack of shit says, and just let the government and his dogs make the talk for him

Ah, i see the old ignorant shit about the left is beong spouted. Let's see how long until someone says that the nazis were actually left-leaning

You guys have no mind of your own.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

Osakasan said:


> If you're not a trumpist, you learn not to believe anything the sack of shit says, and just let the government and his dogs make the talk for him
> 
> Ah, i see the old ignorant shit about the left is beong spouted. Let's see how long until someone says that the nazis were actually left-leaning
> 
> You guys have no mind of your own.



I'm on the right and well aware that Trump talks massive amounts of shit. That's one of the reasons I like him. It drives you Liberals crazy. However, lots of things you and others on the Left claim he said or meant when saying something that you assume he meant are just all fabrications with no basis in reality. What you think he said or meant doesn't equate to what he actually said or meant.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 8, 2020)

Next debate announced to be virtual. Trump said he's not participating or wasting his time now. What a crybaby.


----------



## Osakasan (Oct 8, 2020)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Next debate announced to be virtual. Trump said he's not participating or wasting his time now. What a crybaby.



Now let's watch this be spun into some 4D Chess shit.


----------



## Bagel Le Stinky (Oct 8, 2020)

HoW CoULd He CATcH the HoAX ChInaVirUS


----------



## Doran754 (Oct 8, 2020)

Next debate to be virtual, so biden can be fed answers and read from a teleprompter. What a baby, see how easy it is to spin your boring lefty bs.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Oct 8, 2020)

shamzie said:


> Next debate to be virtual, so biden can be fed answers and read from a teleprompter. What a baby, see how easy it is to spin your boring lefty bs.



Dumbest post of the day thus far and it's only 12:19pm here. Trump is the one who said he wont participate or waste his time, not Biden. How is that spinning "boring lefty bs"? If came from Trump himself. Nothing at all to "spin". Try again.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 8, 2020)

ethantic121212 said:


> HoW CoULd He CATcH the HoAX ChInaVirUS



I challenge you to look into Trump claiming that COVID-19 was a hoax. Your research should include the entire video of Trump when he said "hoax", including what he said before and after that word because the Liberals are full of shit.

For example;

_*"I don't like* Zelda, but *Final Fantasy* is a really cool game. Some day I wish I get to work on a team programming games."_

Now the Liberals will take that and change it to.

_"I don't like Final Fantasy."_

Then after the fabricate bullshit based on picked out words or phrazes they'll post entire news articles based on their lies.

_"Zelda programmer claims he doesn't like Final Fantasy"_

So again, I challenge you to go find the video of Trump saying the word "hoax" and watch the entire thing. You might actually learn something. The same can be applied to lots of other things Liberals claimed Trump said including the entire "Drink Bleach" lies.


----------



## Bagel Le Stinky (Oct 8, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I challenge you to look into Trump claiming that COVID-19 was a hoax. Your research should include the entire video of Trump when he said "hoax", including what he said before and after that word because the Liberals are full of shit.
> 
> For example;
> 
> ...


Well I'm still new here so I can't post links but I guess I was mistaken. He called it the democratics new hoax tho. I'm canadian so I'm not really into American politics


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 8, 2020)

ethantic121212 said:


> Well I'm still new here so I can't post links but I guess I was mistaken. He called it the democratics new hoax tho. I'm canadian so I'm not really into American politics



He didn't call the virus a hoax, that's taking what he said out of context and then implying meaning where there was none. I encourage you to *watch the entire speech* in which he said the word "hoax".


> Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/


Oh, and welcome to the board!


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 11, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> He didn't call the virus a hoax, that's taking what he said out of context and then implying meaning where there was none. I encourage you to *watch the entire speech* in which he said the word "hoax".
> 
> Oh, and welcome to the board!


he called it a hoax, he called it democrats hoax. A hoax implies that it is fake.

You want me to quote up to the line he said it?
then here let me quote it

"Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, “How’s President Trump doing?” They go, “Oh, not good, not good.” They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa. They can’t even count. No, they can’t. They can’t count their votes."

"One of my people came up to me and said, “Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.” That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax."
"They" being clearly democrats. There isn't any other way to interpret that.

And to state now, no democrat at all was politicizing the issue. they made their voice clear, wear a mask, and shutdown. However, with that one line, he politicize it.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcript...th-carolina-rally-transcript-february-28-2020
here's the transcript.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 11, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> he called it a hoax, he called it democrats hoax. A hoax implies that it is fake.
> 
> You want me to quote up to the line he said it?
> then here let me quote it
> ...



Trump didn't call the virus a hoax. Go argue with the video of him never saying or implying that along with the fact checking sites. You're implying meaning when there is none.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/democratic-ad-twists-trumps-hoax-comment/

If you wish to remain ignorant that's your choice.


----------



## Osakasan (Oct 11, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> If you wish to remain ignorant that's your choice



Oh, you guys sure know a lot about remaining ignorant, don't you.


----------



## Vovajka (Oct 16, 2020)

They just revealed on the news that his son Barron also had covid.


----------



## wartutor (Oct 16, 2020)

From what im hearing they are about to hang alot of stuff on biden with his sons "deals" with the Ukraine and "dirty" joes involvement. Lol. Rich peoples problems as Pelosi would say "i have ice cream"


----------



## omgcat (Oct 16, 2020)

wartutor said:


> From what im hearing they are about to hang alot of stuff on biden with his sons "deals" with the Ukraine and "dirty" joes involvement. Lol. Rich peoples problems as Pelosi would say "i have ice cream"



So just so I follow this story: Hunter Biden, who lives in Los Angeles, decides to fly 3000 miles across country, to drop off 3 MacBook Pros at a repair shop run by a blind guy who charges the insanely low price of $85. Hunter gets off the plane and drunk drives to the repair shop (Ignoring all the repair shops in LA). He drops them off, signs a contract for repair and then disappears, never to be seen again by the repair man. The repair shop owner recovers and reads Hunter's *private* emails, a few of which mention a possible meeting with his dad and is so alarmed, he contacts the FBI.

The FBI arranges to pick up the hard drives, but the computer repair shop owner takes a totally normal step of copying them. Once he realizes the FBI isn't doing anything with them, he calls up Rudy Giulliani some how and hands them the contents of these drives.

That Rudy sits on them for months, then chooses to release them 3 weeks before the election. The mainstream media asks to independently verify their validity but said ex-Mayor does what all people trying to prove facts do and ignores these requests.

Is this how stupid we are now? No one who does data recovery would read through thousands of personal emails, even if the computer is abandoned. You'd just wipe the drives clean and sell the computers used. If these emails were as alarming as it's being pushed, Giuliani wouldn't have sat on them for months.


And if Giuliani wanted to prove their validity, he'd turn them over to forensic experts.

also the guy who supposedly handed over the laptop, and the person who published its contents potentially broke a shitload of laws.

“The computer repair shop giving the hard drive to Giuliani likely exposed that individual to civil and criminal liability under state and federal computer privacy laws,” Moss told _Salon_. “However, Rudy’s legal situation for receiving stolen property is less clear. And if he isn’t criminally liable for receipt, his dissemination of the material doesn’t change the equation. That would be like charging Glenn Greenwald for publishing Edward Snowden’s documents.”


----------



## wartutor (Oct 16, 2020)

omgcat said:


> So just so I follow this story: Hunter Biden, who lives in Los Angeles, decides to fly 3000 miles across country, to drop off 3 MacBook Pros at a repair shop run by a blind guy who charges the insanely low price of $85. Hunter gets off the plane and drunk drives to the repair shop (Ignoring all the repair shops in LA). He drops them off, signs a contract for repair and then disappears, never to be seen again by the repair man. The repair shop owner recovers and reads Hunter's *private* emails, a few of which mention a possible meeting with his dad and is so alarmed, he contacts the FBI.
> 
> The FBI arranges to pick up the hard drives, but the computer repair shop owner takes a totally normal step of copying them. Once he realizes the FBI isn't doing anything with them, he calls up Rudy Giulliani some how and hands them the contents of these drives.
> 
> ...


Its like the "Hilary Clinton emails" or the "Obama birth certificate" all over again. You hear about them right before the election but then it all magically disappears lol. No wonder i feel like we live in a southpark episode.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 16, 2020)

wartutor said:


> Its like the "Hilary Clinton emails" or the "Obama birth certificate" all over again. You hear about them right before the election but then it all magically disappears lol. No wonder i feel like we live in a southpark episode.



so lazy, they tried the same tactic again.


----------



## wartutor (Oct 16, 2020)

Lol its like the epsten island shit. Did it happen probably. Was it how everyone said who knows but them and wheres epsten to comment on it? Rich people problems just tend to go away on their own.


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 23, 2020)

omgcat said:


> So just so I follow this story: Hunter Biden, who lives in Los Angeles, decides to fly 3000 miles across country, to drop off 3 MacBook Pros at a repair shop run by a blind guy who charges the insanely low price of $85. Hunter gets off the plane and drunk drives to the repair shop (Ignoring all the repair shops in LA). He drops them off, signs a contract for repair and then disappears, never to be seen again by the repair man. The repair shop owner recovers and reads Hunter's *private* emails, a few of which mention a possible meeting with his dad and is so alarmed, he contacts the FBI.
> 
> The FBI arranges to pick up the hard drives, but the computer repair shop owner takes a totally normal step of copying them. Once he realizes the FBI isn't doing anything with them, he calls up Rudy Giulliani some how and hands them the contents of these drives.
> 
> ...


Remember the Russians?


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 23, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> Remember the Russians?



... or Adam Schiff who claims it was China.

In other news and on the actual topic of this thread Trump didn't get that sick at all or even remotely get close to dying. He's fully recovered and now has antibodies so he can't get infected in the near future. So as I expected and due to the fact COVID isn't that deadly Trump has made a full recovery. Thank the heavens as we didn't need an incapacitated or dead President.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

*Trump's Covid-19 condition was so concerning that doctors considered putting him on a ventilator, source confirms*

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/11/politics/donald-trump-covid-19-ventilator/index.html

Approximately 30-50% of patients whose COVID-19 conditions are bad enough to require ventilators end up dying. We shouldn't be surprised that Trump's case was this severe, given the updates we received at the time and the question-dodging reporters were getting with regard to things like supplemental oxygen, Trump's obesity, Trump's age, etc.


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## SG854 (Feb 12, 2021)

So Trump gets to die and will not face the consequences of his actions. Must be good life.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Feb 12, 2021)

Alright, who brought this horrible thread back?


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## SG854 (Feb 12, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Alright, who brought this horrible thread back?


@Lacius did


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Feb 12, 2021)

Did I get another political thread of something that happended months ago!? Why do people care if someone already recovered months ago. Not trying to be rude, just hate how after the election people are still on politics.


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## AncientBoi (Feb 12, 2021)

Just waiting for him to get AIDS. 

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console said:


> Yes. I saw on news. That's scary. Not sure if will happen to him and his wife maybe going to die in few weeks due to virus. If he and his wife are passed away then too bad after this news release out.
> 
> I think Biden is going to win over Trump.



Love the Elvira avatar


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## Lacius (Feb 12, 2021)

SG854 said:


> @Lacius did


Busted.

Really though, I considered the recent news about the Trump administrations lies regarding the severity of Trump's COVID-19 case worthy of a post but unworthy of a new thread.

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WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Did I get another political thread of something that happended months ago!? Why do people care if someone already recovered months ago. Not trying to be rude, just hate how after the election people are still on politics.


Because there was a bad attempt at a cover-up. You'd think the conservatives looking for a conspiracy would be salivating at the chance to talk about an actual cover-up.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 12, 2021)

and this time he can't use his president card to get the cure right away


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## Foxi4 (Feb 12, 2021)

How is this thread still open? He had it and he recovered, I don't think the "severity" of his case is particularly relevant. I'll allow it to stay open since there was a new article posted so people might want to respond to it, but I'll keep an eye on the thread because, in practice, the subject matter is done and gone at this stage. It's not "world news", it's "world olds".


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## AncientBoi (Feb 12, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


> and this time he can't use his president card to get the cure right away



Hey! who stole my new pants?!

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Foxi4 said:


> How is this thread still open? He had it and he recovered, I don't think the "severity" of his case is particularly relevant. I'll allow it to stay open since there was a new article posted so people might want to respond to it, but I'll keep an eye on the thread since, in practice, the subject matter is done and gone at this stage. It's not "world news", it's "world olds".




New avatar I see.


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## Lacius (Feb 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> How is this thread still open? He had it and he recovered, I don't think the "severity" of his case is particularly relevant. I'll allow it to stay open since there was a new article posted so people might want to respond to it, but I'll keep an eye on the thread since, in practice, the subject matter is done and gone at this stage. It's not "world news", it's "world olds".


There seems to be some confusion above this post that Trump got COVID a second time (he didn't), so the thread might need to be locked. My bad, I guess.

That being said, the severity of Trump's COVID-19 and how they blatantly lied about it and attempted to cover it up is extremely relevant to the broader topic of how feckless and dishonest this administration really was.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 12, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There seems to be some confusion above this post that Trump got COVID a second time (he didn't), so the thread might need to be locked. My bad, I guess.
> 
> That being said, the severity of Trump's COVID-19 and how they blatantly lied about it and attempted to cover it up is extremely relevant to the broader topic of how feckless and dishonest this administration really was.


His case was severe even if he had a sniffle because he was the President at the time. I suspect they planned on throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him to prevent him from dying - he's old and COVID can deteriorate your condition rapidly, especially in Trump's age group and with his weight in mind. He may be in fairly good shape, but he's still old. Not only that, it was still a fairly new disease then, so I bet every kind of treatment was on the table. In any case, yes, Donald Trump didn't catch COVID again, just want that to be clear as others respond to the bump.


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## AncientBoi (Feb 12, 2021)

*I started it up guys*. All I did was comment on some of these old post I was looking at. Sorry


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## 210modz (Feb 12, 2021)

I see he's still living rent free in yall's heads.


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## Lacius (Feb 12, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> His case was severe even if he had a sniffle because he was the President at the time. I suspect they planned on throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him to prevent him from dying - he's old and COVID can deteriorate your condition rapidly, especially in Trump's age group and with his weight in mind. He may be in fairly good shape, but he's still old. Not only that, it was still a fairly new disease then, so I bet every kind of treatment was on the table. In any case, yes, Donald Trump didn't catch COVID again, just want that to be clear as others respond to the bump.


This is all true, but it is being reported that his case was extremely severe and that they thought he might die if they didn't put him on a ventilator. This comports with the press interviews when the doctor would refuse to answer the question about Trump being put on oxygen, repeatedly saying "he's not on oxygen now" instead of answering any of their questions about past oxygen use directly.

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210modz said:


> I see he's still living rent free in yall's heads.


Relatively speaking, I almost never think about Trump. It's been exhilarating.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Feb 12, 2021)

Dear god, the politics.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Feb 16, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Dear god, the politics.


Well this is the politics section after all, not sure what you were expecting


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## Viri (Feb 16, 2021)

So, since Trump survived Cov19, does this mean he's like immune to it now?


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## psprofi (Feb 17, 2021)

As far as I know he got meds that also very likely prevented the body to create an immunity to it. That's at least what I have been told. So probably not.


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## Luke94 (Mar 11, 2021)

Let's Hope Boris Johnson never took adrenochrome or he's taking it. But hey it's just a theory a conspiracy theory. Anyway did someone decreased my posts number digits?


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