# Marijuana?



## Digeman (Apr 15, 2007)

Hey guys. I've got this debate thing for school tommorow and we're supposed to debate about different topics and i got the topic "legalising marijuana". So anyways i'm supposed to be for it and another guy is supposed to be against it. The only thing i could think of when marijuana is good for you is when it's used for medical purposes. Tried to look on the web for some info but didn't find anything that good. So I was just wondering if you guys knew some pros with marijuana? Doesn 't need to be that much info really, just to get me started and such


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## .TakaM (Apr 15, 2007)

well

may surprise some people here, but Im pro legalizing it

me and my friends indulge in it fairly often, it's impossible to OD on, less harmful than the repercussions of alcohol.
if it was legal, it could have a form of quality control, atleast an age restriction with a chance of being enforced
and would put some criminals out of work


plus, it just isn't that bad
I've been drunk many times, it isn't that much fun.. people get angry, sleepy, sick and rarely fun
weed is great, just relaxing with your friends, laughing your asses off


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## BlueStar (Apr 15, 2007)

It doesn't need to lower your cholesterol or anything for there to be an argument for legalising it, the onus should be on the person being against legalisation finding reasons why it should be illegal vs the freedom of people to take it.  Examine precedents set with other mind altering/harmful substances such as tobacco and alcohol which people are allowed to make their own decision on if they should indulge in or not.  Plus if it were legal it would take away revenue from drug dealers and mean people who want to smoke the odd spliff don't have to deal with criminals to do so and free up police time to tackle harder drugs and the associated crime.


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## .TakaM (Apr 15, 2007)

and I just want to add, I'm only pro for legalizing marijuana


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## jaxxster (Apr 15, 2007)

I'd say don't legalize. Its full effects havent even been fully discovered yet, Its possible to get mentally ill from smoking it. Plus if it got legalized i bet the prices for an 8ball would go up and the legal stuff would be really crap stuff.


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## TPi (Apr 15, 2007)

Watch/read one of the things about how it first became illegal.  Then you can talk about how messed up the process of it actually becoming illegal (in the US at least, I think other countries followed, though) was.  It's not harmful to you more than putting the smoke of anything else into your lungs is, and you can bake it into foods to get around that, even.  You don't even have to argue that it is good, just that it's wrong that it's illegal, and the benefits of having a legalized regulated government substance vs. dealing with the drug dealers, gangs, etc.   You'll come off as less of a stoner if you focus on the fact that it's not really dangerous as a substance, other than the fact that it is currently illegal, rather than trying to explain how goooood you felt, man.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also, the other first 2 posts above me were good as well.


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## jumpman17 (Apr 15, 2007)

Marijuana only has one real medical use so far and that is for treating people who are undergoing chemotherapy. The other use that is brought up doesn't really work. Supposedly it helps with people who have glaucoma, but all it does is mask it, not get rid of it.

Honestly though, here's how I see the future. I see cigarettes becoming illegal and marijuana becoming legalized. Cigarettes harm other people with their second hand smoke. Marijuana, while not harmless is less harmful then cigarettes. Marijuana isn't going to make you speed down the street at 100 MPH. On the contrary, more often then not, someone on marijuana will be stopped at a stop sign waiting for it to turn green.

I'm in a psychology class right now about the effect of drugs on the mind and this is just what I've learned from class.

*EDIT:* Why do people still try to bake marijuana into brownies? Eating it hardly allows any of the marijuana to be absorbed into your blood stream. It gets digested too fast.


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## Teun (Apr 15, 2007)

It is legal here in The Netherlands, and it doesn't cause much problems. Is that a good pro?


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## qusai (Apr 15, 2007)

http://everyonedoesit.com/cannabis_information/

You'll find a lot of helpful info there...


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## Tomobobo (Apr 15, 2007)

See what I get upset about s the fact that the biggest thing that Mary Jane has going for it on a track to get legalized is for medical use.  I didn't use it for medical purposes.  It's a recreational drug with medicinal benefits.  If ever it does get legalized, it's because people push on the medicinal positives.  That won't help out any stoner in the US, because then instead of being a criminal for possessing an illegal substance, he'll be a worse off criminal for possessing a substance that requires a prescription without one.

The problem with trying to persuade the government to legalize it, is that there has to be more of a reason than "it's fun", for it to happen.  But I think that's bullshit.  Alcohol is fun, and it's legal, tobacco is proven to kill, but it's legal.  The government has made up so many false negatives about the plant that it's hard to get it legalized and especially when there are people out there trying to criminalize the use of other two aforementioned legal recreational drugs.

But why should there be any more of a reason?  Why not let people do what they want.  Even if Marijuana was ever proven to kill or even at the very lease harm someone, fuck it, it's ultimately up to the user whether or not they want to harm themselves.  They're not hurting anyone else.

It shouldn't even be a question whether or not to legalize the drug, because it shouldn't have ever become illegal in the first place.  It was a series of propaganda and lies that were aimed at immigrants and minorities that got the stuff on the government's bad side anyway.  It's in the history books.

It's a very commonly used drug, at least one person in every city in the US either has smoked or still smokes weed.  It's far too much of a "problem" for the drug war for it to ever be turned into something the government has the power to control.  Which brings me to the point that it's a waste of money to try.  So much of taxpayer's dollars go to funding the war on drugs, and housing "criminals", when it's simply too big of a problem to handle.  The government lost the war on drugs when it started it, especially with weed.

Damn near every other respectable country on the planet (not to say that USA is respectable anymore but that's another rant) has at least decriminalized the use of the plant.  Why be so backwards assed?  Oh yeah, it's USA, run by 'dubya'.


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## F-Ray (Apr 15, 2007)

The swedish site http://www.swecan.org/ offers a lot of information. It may not be totally objective information but it's a hell of lot better than the information the swedish government hands out. 

On the subject of getting mentally ill of smoking cannabis I wouldn't believe that 'fact'. The human race have smoked/eaten cannabis for over 10 000 years and it's only recently that's it's become illegal for most parts of the world. It's probably true that some people have gone mental from smoking cannabis, but it could've just as easy been triggered by a number of other stimulants or emotional trauma. Read about latent psychosis.

What's important when debating legalisation of cannabis is to always make the con-debater present sources of his facts. ( I guess the same goes for the pro-debater, as well :-) ) If the source(s) is from a single-interest organization the facts are most often wrong. (Again, same goes for pro-side)

WHO - World health organization - Has presented a report where they compare alcohol and cannabis and the results were that cannabis, although it's not good for you, is way better than alcohol. A similar report can also be read from the canadian government I think.

When you debate, don't bring alcohol into the debate. Don't compare plague with cholera.

It's sometimes kinda funny when con-legalize side debates. They may say that if you smoke cannabis the dealers will try to lure you into heavier drugs. They want to make more money out of you, and you don't make much money selling cannabis. It's a silly argument since if you legalize it, the  government will control the distribution. The same goes for saying that cannabis is a high-crime drug. Legalize it!

A drug-free society would really be great, but we're still humans and humans really want to use drugs in recreational purpose and that's never going to change. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




If you want some history when cannabis got banned. You can read a little about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger
Harry J Anslinger was an evil man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 His main argument for banning it was that if a black man smoked cannabis he would look TWICE on a white woman. He also added that it was only blacks, mexicans and homosexuals that smoked cannabis.

/F-Ray


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## Veho (Apr 15, 2007)

I don't smoke it anymore. Used to, got bored. It only made me sleepy. 

Legalise it, set huge taxes (like on tobacco), and everyone's happy. The state would get their money, and the competition between manufacturers would lower prices. 

There would be more quality control, people would be smoking something other than pesticides. 

And the argument that marijuana leads to heavier drugs is just crap. It's just an excuse. "I started off with reefer, and I soon went to heroin chased with PCP." CRAP! If you didn't have marijuana, something else would have "led" you to drugs. Alcohol. Coffee. Cigarettes. Rock'n'roll music. Anything. You're just looking for an excuse. Shut up.


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## .TakaM (Apr 15, 2007)

if anything, weed has made me drink less

a lot less actually


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## Myke (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(jaxxster @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> I'd say don't legalize. Its full effects havent even been fully discovered yet, Its possible to get mentally ill from smoking it. Plus if it got legalized i bet the prices for an 8ball would go up and the legal stuff would be really crap stuff.



an 8ball??!?! we are talking about weed here not cocaine.

Jumpman: ovbiously you have never eatten a pot brownie. They definitely work. Weed is fat soluble not water soluble, therefore when you mix it with butter you get ghee, I E pot butter, which omg it works so well.


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## nintendofreak (Apr 15, 2007)

I would contribute, but everything has already been said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But, from what I understand, its "permanent" effects on the human body are less of that then alcohol and smoking cigarettes. 

I think its crap, but If some smoker wants to smoke and possibly risk his/her life and shite then i guess i would support it, with strict laws such as "no public stoners" and even stricter laws to protect children.  Because kids always get caught in the middle with drug use


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## Louse76 (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(nintendofreak @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> I would contribute, but everything has already been said
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Marijuana carries many times more of most of the items that cause damage to the human body. However, someone might smoke one spliff in a week or so, while a smoker would smoke one or two packs a day. So even if it has six times as much harmful things (which I believe was the number for at least one of the components) a person who smokes weed now and then will be beter off than a heavy smoker.

I am completely against smoking btw. It is just stupid. At least if you're smoking weed, you're getting high. There really is no point for smoking cigarettes. If you smoke them, you are an idiot. Plain and simple!


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## INTERNETS (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(Louse76 @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> I am completely against smoking btw. It is just stupid. At least if you're smoking weed, you're getting high. There really is no point for smoking cigarettes. If you smoke them, you are an idiot. Plain and simple!



You know, a lot of people smoke because they enjoy its taste and its social effects. Cigarettes are bad for you, but I wouldn't be so quick to belittle someone's ability to make rational judgments and weigh the costs and effects therein.

I smoke a pipe a couple times a month as a social lubricant, and it's fantastic. I don't smoke cigarettes, nor smoke regularly. I also happily accept the ill effects because of the beautiful benefit.


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## Myke (Apr 15, 2007)

I'd also like to point out that doctors have discovered in our brain a few years ago a receptor for the THC molecule. Our brain has lots of receptors to pick up different things like nutrients etc, now they discovered one that is a receptor for THC which is the chemical in marijuana that gets you high. No one has any idea why we have it in our brain. They have also found that as we sleep our brain releases trace amounts of thc.
I think the whole marijuana is bad for your brain is bullshit. If it's so bad for our brain then how come our brian secretes it? 

the thing I will agree on is, the harmfullness of the marijuana is simply the act of smoking it. Everyone knows there's all sorts of carcinogens in smoke, you wanna be completely safe? Eat the pot don't smoke it.

also don't go by the anti drug commercials because they just blow a bunch of smokescreens when it comes to drugs. Especially marijuana. if there were horrible chemicals that would kill you fast in it (like cigarettes) many more people would die however all the people who have smoked pot and died, also smoked cigarettes so there's no way to prove that it was the pot that killed them, and honestly it's most likely the cigarettes.


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## Veho (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(jaxxster @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> I'd say don't legalize. Its full effects havent even been fully discovered yet.


So what? The full effects of _coffee_ haven't been discovered yet, _nobody_ knows what exactly it does to the human body, it's a mix of totally freaky psychoactive chemicals, stimulating substances, altogether weird stuff, yet nobody objects coffee. 

GIMME MOAR KOFFEEEY!!!


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## INTERNETS (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(veho @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> And the argument that marijuana leads to heavier drugs is just crap. It's just an excuse. "I started off with reefer, and I soon went to heroin chased with PCP." CRAP! If you didn't have marijuana, something else would have "led" you to drugs. Alcohol. Coffee. Cigarettes. Rock'n'roll music. Anything. You're just looking for an excuse. Shut up.
> 
> I think you misunderstand the 'gateway drug' argument – it's an argument that more or less pro-legalization or pro-decriminalization. The idea is that, while Marijuana is considered illegal, doing it would create a mindset of "Oh, well, this is illegal? I'd thought it'd be a lot worse. It's actually kinda fun!" –– then kids have little recourse than to actually do drugs.
> 
> ...



I'd be interested in seeing your citation for this.


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## jtroye32 (Apr 15, 2007)

well the only reasonable way i see to make it legal is to discredit why it was made illegal in the first place. just because it's not as harmful as alcohol or cigarettes (debatable) still doesn't change the fact it's in the majority harmful and already illegal... so why WOULD they make it legal? by comparing it to alcohol and cigarettes you're just pushing to make both of those illegal too.


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## jumpman17 (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(Myke @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> Jumpman: ovbiously you have never eatten a pot brownie. They definitely work. Weed is fat soluble not water soluble, therefore when you mix it with butter you get ghee, I E pot butter, which omg it works so well.



Nope, never smoked, drank, or used any kind of illegal drugs or misused legal ones and never will.

I didn't say that you don't get high from eating it, I said the amount that is absorbed into the blood stream is not nearly the same as what is absorbed from inhaling it as a gas form.


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## DigitalSilence (Apr 15, 2007)

boffo butane extraction method

"honey oil"


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## Veho (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(INTERNETS @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> I think you misunderstand the 'gateway drug' argument – it's an argument that more or less pro-legalization or pro-decriminalization. The idea is that, while Marijuana is considered illegal, doing it would create a mindset of "Oh, well, this is illegal? I'd thought it'd be a lot worse. It's actually kinda fun!" –– then kids have little recourse than to actually do drugs.


My thoughts exactly. 

But the same argument is very often used by those who oppose decriminalization/legalization, going something along the lines of "it would make it more easily obtainable". 

I've read a newspaper article recently where that was the main argument of the anti-legalization side. "Most drug addicts claim marijuana was their gateway to serious drugs." I call "bullshit".


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## Tomobobo (Apr 15, 2007)

http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/brain1.html

A source for the THC receptor facts.

And veho I can't agree more.  I smoked weed for 5-6 years, and the only "harder" drug I ever tried was mushrooms.  And believe me it's not because I couldn't find any other drugs, it's because I see what other drugs do to people, and that's not what I wanted for myself.

Before I started smoking weed, I was against it just because that's how I was raised.  But when I saw the effects on my peers, and it definitely wasn't anything out of a horror flick, I decided to try it.  It was probably one of the best decisions in my life.  It brought me out of a deep depression, and made everything taste good and funny.  Haha.

The only reason I can't smoke, is because I'm on probation for possession of marijuana.  Which furthers my motivations for legalization.


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## rezen (Apr 15, 2007)

Shouldn't be legalised... It would be great for it but I wouldn't want anyone to start it either, it's a big fucking waste of time.

It can be used on medical grounds but I can imagine it just breaking outta control.


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## Tomobobo (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(rezen @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> Shouldn't be legalised... It would be great for it but I wouldn't want anyone to start it either, it's a big fucking waste of time.
> 
> It can be used on medical grounds but I can imagine it just breaking outta control.



How is it a big waste of time?

Chatting on the internet in a video game forum is a waste of time.  Playing video games is a waste of time.  Every thing's a waste of time.  You're going to die, why not have fun before that?


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## megatron_lives (Apr 15, 2007)

I guess if you have to be pro for it, for your debate, then the previously mentioned arguements are valid. These would be that it is considered a "safer" drug than the available legal drugs  - nicotine and ethanol - and the active ingredient THC, has medicinal uses. All I'd suggest is doing some research based on peoples oppions here to get some accurate and reliable, quotable facts.

I personally would use the example of Amsterdam where it is legallised, and get some good hard stats relivant to the drug use and social issues, and compare them with statistics for legal drugs from your country. 

As for medicinal use, dronabinol is available in some countries as a synthetic THC drug. So maybe some good figures and medical  
statistics would help your case.

I'm sure this isn't really too much help, but I just wanted to share wht I would do in your position.

Best of luck - Incidently I smoke weed so am for Pro!

Peace

PS RE: previous post - There's more to life than losing time


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## cheesyPOOF5 (Apr 15, 2007)

I don't smoke pot because I don't like the thought of not being in control of myself.


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## spokenrope (Apr 15, 2007)

In my 24 years, I've never smoked *anything* before in my life, but I'm extremely pro pot legalization.

- Over a billion dollars of US tax dollars are spent each year keeping prisoners in jail for pot possession/distribution.  That's well over 1/10 of all the prisoners.  Overcrowding in jails is a huge problem.  Maybe we shouldn't jail people for retarded reasons.  This doesn't even take into account the money that's spent on police enforcing anti-pot laws.
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/47815/

- It's impossible to overdose from marijuana.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2093.html

- Pot is far less addictive than alcohol, cigarettes, or caffeine.
http://www.drugsense.org/mcwilliams/www.ma...oc/addictiv.htm

- As somebody already said, we could sell pot in gas stations and not only profit from it, but we could also keep the pot safer.  Pot on the streets can be laced with much more dangerous drugs if it doesn't come from a reputable source.

- Just because something is illegal doesn't mean that it *should* be illegal.  Remember prohibition and how well that turned out.

Like I said, I've never done pot before in my life, I just think that it's common sense that it should be legal.  Cigarettes are the same way, I think they should be legal, but if I catch my parents or brothers smoking, they know that there's going to be hell to pay.  It's a personal choice.  And since it's not harmful to a person, they should be able to make that choice if they so choose.

There's no reason that you should lose this debate, dude.


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## Sick Wario (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(.TakaM @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> well
> 
> may surprise some people here, but Im pro legalizing it
> 
> ...



im going to qutoe this post because it echos my feelings perfectly.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 15, 2007)

This time of the year again is it.

Many things can be said and indeed they already have. As it stands I do not even use caffeine products but I will however point out that I have probably seen as many people stoned as drunk and the proportion of those who were stoned that proceeded to start something is just this side of zero. The few times that it has occurred can probably be explained by serious things happening prior to the event and those responsible being idiots in the first place.


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## rezen (Apr 15, 2007)

QUOTE(Tomobobo @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> QUOTE(rezen @ Apr 15 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Shouldn't be legalised... It would be great for it but I wouldn't want anyone to start it either, it's a big fucking waste of time.
> ...



Believe me, being stoned for a lot of people is a way of getting lazy. This is what makes it a big waste of time; You can be getting things done instead going off and being lazy because you are too stoned.


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## Destructobot (Apr 15, 2007)

In my opinion, the merits and downfalls of drug use are completely irrelevant to the question of prohibition, because prohibition doesn't work. 

It doesn't matter what you're prohibiting(pot, drugs, alcohol, abortions), if people feel they need it they will find a way to aquire it, and that is why prohibition is such a big problem. It provides a huge source of funding for gangs, drug cartels, and organized crime. Well armed gangs are well armed because they make lots of money selling illegal drugs. 

When you ban something, you throw away any control you once had over it. There is not much bootleg alcohol going around anymore. There is still some, because of the various taxes on alcohol, but most people just get thier booze from the store. This cuts the criminals out almost entirely.

Prohibition also prevents you from regulating quality, which makes the drugs much more dangerous, and it makes it impossible to keep people from selling drugs to children. I can tell you from personal experience that it was easier to get pot than alcohol when I was 16.


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## jaxxster (Apr 16, 2007)

Meh, Its all up to the person and how they handle, I used to puff every day for over a year...Man that was the best year of my life but now i've quit and my mates still smoke it and sometimes it sucks because they're just boring, They sit around like zombies. It's all fun if you're baked too tho. I just feel the way its becoming now days the mental health figures will rise up due to the fact that skunk is not as friendly as it used to be, Theres alot of potent shit around and its getting more dangerous.


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## Veurruckte (Apr 16, 2007)

I don't really love weed, but I will smoke with some good friends on special occasions. The only reason it's illegal (Correct me if I'm wrong) is because of the propaganda they spread in the early 1900's about weed making people crazy. The reality is marijuana has few side effects, and it's been proven that people who smoke weed on a regular basis are just as smart as people who don't. 

Anyone who is educated knows that alcohol much more dangerous than weed. Look at how many people die every year because of alcohol. Look at all the lives that are ruined because of alcohol. How many people die from weed? How many lives does it ruin? Unlike alcohol, weed doesn't affect your judgment, and it doesn't make you aggressive. As long as alcohol is legal, or even tobacco for that matter, it is ridiculous that weed is illegal.

As long as you smoke in moderation (IE, on occasion) I see nothing wrong with it. However, I do believe being mentally dependent on it is wrong.


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## strummer12 (Apr 16, 2007)

I smoke it every day-usually half or 1/3 a joint.  Helps me relax.  I don't smoke cigs or drink alcohol anymore, just smoke grass.  Hell, I never even touch asprin or any of that stuff.  I don't sit there tokin' and going woah, maaaaan look at the colours, maaaaan.  That's a teenager's game.   A toke a day keeps the doctor away.


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## kristijan08 (Apr 16, 2007)

pro: nobody has ever od'd on marijuana lol

also, this might help ya

http://www.drugtext.org/sub/marmyt1.html


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## rest0re (Apr 16, 2007)

reason why i would like it to be legalized is that it helps my medical condition. this is for real and no joke
edit: i have problems in my inner ear .. some blood circulation problem so sometimes when i eat too much salt i get dizzy and vomit etc.. smoking ganja helps...


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## karamu (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(Veurruckte @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Anyone who is educated knows that alcohol much more dangerous than weed. Look at how many people die every year because of alcohol. Look at all the lives that are ruined because of alcohol. How many people die from weed? How many lives does it ruin? Unlike alcohol, weed doesn't affect your judgment, and it doesn't make you aggressive. As long as alcohol is legal, or even tobacco for that matter, it is ridiculous that weed is illegal.


The problem i find with this comment is that you are comparing numbers directly rather than on a ratio per numbers of users.  of course since a huge proportion of the population consumes alcohol that there will be a much larger occurance of alcohol related problems than marijuana.  you go around saying anyone educated blah blah.. but the way you compare things is not good.

Having been drinking with a mate and then have him drive into a pole while drunk and decapitate himself and having another friend become a schizophrenic from smoking marijauna on his first use i have seen both substances ruin lives.  I would like to say that you really need to check where you are getting your sources from.  you can't trust a website about the medical facts of marijuana when it is run by a pro-legal marijuana group as the above website is.  That is like believing everything mike moore tells you in his documentaries.  people always select the information they want to display to give their arguement the most weight while omitting the other evidence that is contrary to their belief.  

At the end of the day it is your choice to smoke up, but since quiting 4 years ago i don't miss it or feel i need it at all.  i suggest for all those out there smoking it, do some real research from medical studies that don't have a bias one way or another, make up your own mind and do as you please with the drug.  but i suggest being informed about the choice you are making so that you don't regret it later.  I have seen various drugs including alcohol and tabacco destroy the health of friends.  know the risks and make your choice, it doesn't matter what other people think you should do!


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## 2cb2ct7 (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(Tomobobo @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> See what I get upset about s the fact that the biggest thing that Mary Jane has going for it on a track to get legalized is for medical use.Â I didn't use it for medical purposes.Â It's a recreational drug with medicinal benefits.Â If ever it does get legalized, it's because people push on the medicinal positives.Â That won't help out any stoner in the US, because then instead of being a criminal for possessing an illegal substance, he'll be a worse off criminal for possessing a substance that requires a prescription without one.
> 
> The problem with trying to persuade the government to legalize it, is that there has to be more of a reason than "it's fun", for it to happen.Â But I think that's bullshit.Â Alcohol is fun, and it's legal, tobacco is proven to kill, but it's legal.Â The government has made up so many false negatives about the plant that it's hard to get it legalized and especially when there are people out there trying to criminalize the use of other two aforementioned legal recreational drugs.
> 
> ...



Well said, you seem to have some of the most well-informed and open-minded views on this topic...


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## tjas (Apr 16, 2007)

Legalise it, Here in the netherlands it's legal, and we have very little problems. In other countries next to us such as belgium or Germany and even France have big drug problems. In those countries it's illiegal.. The big point is you can better legalise it. When you legalise it you have better control over it.

It's even that crazy here that you can test your cocaine here to see if its clean... That testing is made possible by the govourment..!


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## Veho (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(karamu @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> The problem i find with this comment is that you are comparing numbers directly rather than on a ratio per numbers of users.Â of course since a huge proportion of the population consumes alcohol that there will be a much larger occurance of alcohol related problems than marijuana.Â you go around saying anyone educated blah blah.. but the way you compare things is not good.
> 
> Having been drinking with a mate and then have him drive into a pole while drunk and decapitate himself and having another friend become a schizophrenic from smoking marijauna on his first use i have seen both substances ruin lives.Â I would like to say that you really need to check where you are getting your sources from.Â you can't trust a website about the medical facts of marijuana when it is run by a pro-legal marijuana group as the above website is.Â That is like believing everything mike moore tells you in his documentaries.Â people always select the information they want to display to give their arguement the most weight while omitting the other evidence that is contrary to their belief.


It's only natural that "pro" and "con" pages are biased, but the problem is there are not enough unbiased pages with solid facts. Marijuana hasn't been sufficiently researched. One of the reasons being, of course, that marijuana is illegal. 

The problem with current marijuana market is the same as the problem with bootleg alcohol. It's uncontrolled, and in some cases, poisonous. Weed you can find out there isn't exactly "organically grown".  If you're lucky you'll just end up smoking pesticide and fertilizers, and if you're not, it'll be laced with who knows what kind of hard drugs and chemicals, to give it that extra "kick". That kind of crap can mess you up, to say the least. Or kill you. 

Legalizing marijuana would solve some of the problems. It would enforce quality control, for one. Large corporations with marijuana farms competing with each other, lowering prices on higher yields per acre than any "private" farm, reducing margins; very soon, cheap marijuana cigarettes would push illegal dealers (who depend on high margins) out of business. High taxes would bring money, and merely decriminalizing marijuana would be a relief to the police (and the entire legal system), who wouldn't have to waste their time, money and resources on chasing marijuana smokers and prosecuting grannies for baking ganja brownies.


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## rest0re (Apr 16, 2007)

if war against drugs would be like war against terrorism ... terrorists would won because almost everybody would be terrorist


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## Hitto (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(tjas @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Legalise it, Here in the netherlands it's legal, and we have very little problems. In other countries next to us such as belgium or Germany and even France have big drug problems. In those countries it's illiegal.. The big point is you can better legalise it. When you legalise it you have better control over it.
> 
> It's even that crazy here that you can test your cocaine here to see if its clean... That testing is made possible by the govourment..!



Not in france we don't. It's tolerated nowadays. A few years ago, I was busted with a buddy for smoking a joint outside of a bar, and all they told us was "next time, keep it in your homes". Granted, I'm white and the french police would have reacted differently if I wasn't.

Legalization would be cool, but depenalization would be enough, and dare I say, better for customers. Unless you want to pay 500% VAT and another 500% "special social security fund tax" for a pack of mari-cigarettes.

What I am absolutely opposed to is people smoking at sensitive / dangerous workplaces. But that's got nothing to do with the drug, and everything to do with weak minds.


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## Veho (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Legalization would be cool, but depenalization would be enough, and dare I say, better for customers. Unless you want to pay 500% VAT and another 500% "special social security fund tax" for a pack of mari-cigarettes.


Well, now you have dealers selling at a 1000% profit margin, so it's the same, really. And you never know what the hell you're buying, and most of it is sage and oregano


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## jaxxster (Apr 16, 2007)

If thats what you get you need to find yourself some better contacts


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## THeLL (Apr 16, 2007)

Here in Holland it's legal...sorta... and that's the way I like it. Making it fully legal means lots of taxes and VAT on it like with sigarettes here.
Maing it fully illegal also means a higher price AND it means that, when you buy it, you have to go to some drugsdealer that prolly also sells harddrugs. The step to harddrugs is much easier made that way.


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## djgarf (Apr 16, 2007)

i smoked hash for 17 yrs (gave up last summer when i found out my now ex wife was pregnant with our second child)
i really cannot understand why governments still insist on refusing to legalise/decriminalise it as it does not do any more harm than alcohol/tobacco

hash can make you lazy as was pointed out in a post above but that is only if u have a lazy tendancy anyway. i know i used to get lots of things done on hash that i wouldnt of got done otherwise cus i was able to focus more on what needed doing because i was more releaxed.

since i have stopped smoking it i have started drinking a fair bit which has given me a bit of a belly (something i never had while i was a stoner lol)
with the right people having a smoke can be far more enjoyable than having a drink because i have yet to see anyone get nasty/violent while stoned which is certainly more than can be said for alcohol


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## Veho (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(THeLL @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Maing it fully illegal also means a higher price AND it means that, when you buy it, you have to go to some drugsdealer that prolly also sells harddrugs. The step to harddrugs is much easier made that way.


It's been decriminalized, not exactly fully legal. 

Making it _fully_ legal would mean everyone would be growing it, and the price would drop, despite taxation. And if it was legal, you would buy it at the store, and it would help _avoid_ the drug dealers you're talking about.


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## 111111111 (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> *EDIT:* Why do people still try to bake marijuana into brownies?



Because it gets you hammered. You do realise that thc is fat soluble, so to bake with it you have to lightly fry it in margarine/butter and then use the butter in your cakes.  You can't just throw a handful of green in a cake mixture (well, you can but it's a massive waste).  EDIT : bah, someone already said it.  that'll learn me.


I don't believe it should be legalised, but definitely decriminalised.


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## 111111111 (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(F-Ray @ Apr 15 2007 said:


> When you debate, don't bring alcohol into the debate. Don't compare plague with cholera.



This is the problem with drugs arguments - both sides have shit arguments.  pro always go on about alcohol/tobacco being worse, and that potheads never start fights (even though they do - lots of scallies get chonged then go starting fights).  anti always jabber on about heroin.


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## 111111111 (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(rest0re @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> when i eat too much salt i get dizzy and vomit etc.. smoking ganja helps...



A perfect candidate for following the Ital diet (rastafari diet) - no salt and plenty of herb in your cooking.  =]


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## FAST6191 (Apr 16, 2007)

I admit using personal experience as a basis for a debate is flawed but "lots of scallies get chonged then go starting fights", since when has anything really  been necessary for disaffected youth (pc language is great fun) to start fights.

What research I have seen though leads me to believe that it is unnecessarily criminalised, I will not say even pure stuff has not caused damage but proportionally it is better than a lot of legal stuff.


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## 111111111 (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(FAST6191 @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> I admit using personal experience as a basis for a debate is flawed but "lots of scallies get chonged then go starting fights", since when has anything reallyÂ been necessary for disaffected youth (pc language is great fun) to start fights.



What I was arguing is that draw doesn't make you this cuddly fluffy hippy that the pro drugs lobby seem to believe (just like alcohol doesn't make you a wife beating monster).  Some people fight after smoking cannabis, sone people don't fight after drinking 2 litres of tequila.

To claim otherwise is just foolish (as is the line "cannabis is completely safe" - no drug is.  By all means take drugs, they are fun.  But don't try to whitewash people into believing it's as healthy as a salad with omega seed sprinkles)


Better to use personal experience as a source of debate than "something I read in a book".  I'd rather live my own life and find out things for myself than to be "book smart" (fantastic phrase - I want to kiss the person who came up with that term for nerds).  EDIT : obviously I didn't intend for Digeman to use my personal experience in school - merely pointing it out.


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## Westside (Apr 16, 2007)

It was completely leagal in Canada for sometime, then law changes.  However, no matter what, we militants have law to follow on our, so even if it is leagal in rest of Canada, we are not allowed to smoke. :'(


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## Purple (Apr 16, 2007)

Digiman, how did the debate go?


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## Hitto (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(111111111 @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Better to use personal experience as a source of debate than "something I read in a book".Â I'd rather live my own life and find out things for myself than to be "book smart" (fantastic phrase - I want to kiss the person who came up with that term for nerds).



Don't take this personally, but most people I hear saying that hold minimum wage jobs, never coders or engineers. Without "something I read in a book" knowledge, the world would be a very different place.

I'm not saying that with the intent to infuriate - after all, society needs _someone_ to flip burgers, clean the streets, etc.

@veho : sage?! oh lawd, you need to find a better dealer


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## 111111111 (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Don't take this personally, but most people I hear saying that hold minimum wage jobs, never coders or engineers. Without "something I read in a book" knowledge, the world would be a very different place.
> 
> Why would I take it personally?  I'm not an engineer and nor would I want to be.  coders or engineers are hardly on brilliant wages (and haven't been since 1999 or so).
> 
> ...



you seem to have some kind of complex.  Society needs someone to clean the streets far more than it needs coders.  Why on earth would that infuriate?  Society needs middle class idiots as much as it needs bush and blair and their kind.  (not very much for the slow amongst you).


--
Booksmarts, for people who live their life in an office chair.  - I'm gonna print it onto a shirt.  EDIT : A Beige & Grey dull shirt.


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## Xeijin (Apr 16, 2007)

Aren't some of the long-term side effects of marijuana mental health problems?


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## spokenrope (Apr 16, 2007)

QUOTE(Xeijin @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Aren't some of the long-term side effects of marijuana mental health problems?



That sounds like a Fox News headline.

Is Barak Obama a terrorist?

Does marijuana make you go insane?

Unless you can point to a source that isn't "Reefer Madness," no.  The only place that I've heard this from is propaganda.  No credible studies have proven this, as far as I've heard.


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## jaxxster (Apr 16, 2007)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B2...phrenia&spell=1


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## Hitto (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(111111111 @ Apr 16 2007 said:


> Booksmarts, for people who live their life in an office chair.Â - I'm gonna print it onto a shirt.Â EDIT : A Beige & Grey dull shirt.



You're communicating this opinion through a computer and fiber optic..
Irony : no, it's not used to print stuff on shirts!


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