# Almost All Flash Kits Blocked Permanently



## Another World (Sep 25, 2012)

While there are a few discussions about this topic going on throughout GBAtemp, I felt that one centralized post would benefit our community. According to Team SuperCard, the 3DS v4.4.0-10 firmware update will permanently block all but 2 Flash Kits. Please keep in mind that these numbers and this news are not yet fact, we are awaiting responses from various teams, but looking at the information it seems this was the intended outcome of the new firmware update.

Be advised, do not update to 3DS v4.4.0-10



> 1. From the current market, most of the cards are without save IC, so be blocked now. Therefore, this is the hardware defect, software can not solve.
> 2. Part of the card on the market have save IC, but the main control program has been burned to fixed (FPGA program). So user can not  solve this problem too, unless return to the factory.
> 
> From now on, flash card support 3DS 4.4.0-10x " are DSTWO (released upgrade file already here..) and a xxx r4 (released  video only, no upgrade file released).



Thanks to Rydian for the tip!​Edit #1



Which R4i Gold/R4iDSN are supported? Above is an image that recently popped up that shows how to tell what unit you have. Updatable units include 9, A, B, and C. (Thanks exangel).

Edit #2
A patch for the R4i Gold (R4ids.cn) has been released. Grab it HERE.




Source


----------



## chavosaur (Sep 25, 2012)

So glad I have not updated, I would be doomed... 
I feel so sorry for those that have updated though. I feel a storm of whining flashcard threads approaching...


----------



## Tom (Sep 25, 2012)

Well that sucks, now we need to wait for a new card and buy that correct? It can't be fixed with software but with new hardware/ BIOS in a sense(FPGA Program not firmware)


----------



## Terminator02 (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks for this centralized post, I've been trying to follow this but there isn't much info on it. The DSTWO already has firmware 1.18 which should work with this latest 3DS firmware: http://down.supercard.sc/download/dstwo/Firmware/Firmware_v1.18_eng.zip


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 25, 2012)

This was bound to happen. It has been said several times before that this kinda thing was going to happen. :/


----------



## qlum (Sep 25, 2012)

Nintendo seems to be winning the fight not because they fix their issues but because flashcard makers stop supporting their cards. Quite funny indeed. I do expect EZ-flash to get back someday as a dev supporting an outdated system like they did with the gba for a long long time.


----------



## Dork (Sep 25, 2012)

Good thing I didn't update. I really need to buy a Supercard, my Acekard is kind of shit anyway.


----------



## Another World (Sep 25, 2012)

We knew this was possible for years. I'm not surprised that they chose to do this now. the wii u is on the horizon. what better way to distance themselves from all the past piracy then to give the 3DS a clean start.

What will be interesting is to see what the active flash kit teams decide to do. this could either mean a new round of kits from the active teams (of which there are only a few left) or this could mean the end of an era is finally upon us. 

Either way, I predict SCDS2 sales to rise rather quickly.

-another world


----------



## DaggerV (Sep 25, 2012)

Why I don't sell old consoles in favor of new ones. No need to taint the 3DS with this kind of stuff yet until the hardware is there. Willing to wait, have before, not like I'm not already playing the games, I just like convenience, though 3DS homebrews will be badass.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 25, 2012)

In all seriousness, I'm glad I bought a Supercard DSTWO a few years back. Especially since many online stores selling flashcarts do not accept PayPal anymore.


----------



## BORTZ (Sep 25, 2012)

tom10122 said:


> Well that sucks, now we need to wait for a new card and buy that correct? It can't be fixed with software but with new hardware/ BIOS in a sense(FPGA Program not firmware)


God no. What the 3DS needs is CFW. We can store games on the SD card, hopefully it's only a matter of time.


----------



## Terminator02 (Sep 25, 2012)

Although I would like to know why Nintendo F'ed up their firmware naming scheme. The trailing number always went up by 1 with every update except for this one firmware update, which stayed at 10.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2012)

Took them long enough - now they figured out how to block flashcarts based on their hardware, not their headers? Well done. I guess Nintendo's R&D was so busy with it that it practically steamed up the entire facility.

In any case, I too predict DSTwo and "certain R4 cards" to sell like cure for cancer if this happens to be true... but... perhaps it's a good thing.

More protection means more drive to hack the device. Let's face it - flashcarts are a thing of the past, it's about time for a Custom Firmware. This will become a real hacker-magnet now, things might get interesting.


----------



## Janthran (Sep 25, 2012)

This makes me very glad that I have a DStwo.
My friends who I bought Acekards for, thought.. :/


----------



## Gahars (Sep 25, 2012)

And they're gone, like a flash (kit) in the pan...


----------



## saintrobyn (Sep 25, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Took them long enough - now they figured out how to block flashcarts based on their hardware, not their headers? Well done. I guess Nintendo's R&D was so busy with it that it practically steamed up the entire facility.
> 
> In any case, I too predict DSTwo and "certain R4 cards" to sell like cure for cancer if this happens to be true... but... perhaps it's a good thing.
> 
> More protection means more drive to hack the device. Let's face it - flashcarts are a thing of the past, it's about time for a Custom Firmware. This will become a real hacker-magnet now, things might get interesting.



I have been thinking the same thing. I have a feeling the secret to hacking the 3DS is in focusing on the differences between the retail cart and DL version of NSMB2. I am not a code monkey so I wouldn't know what to look for but something tells me that the difference between how these interact with the system is the key.


----------



## insidexdeath (Sep 25, 2012)

Even the R4i Gold(r4ids.cn) team confirmed they got the flashcart working on the 4.4.0-10


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm just going to wait for Team Acekard's stance on this one and whether their I.C's will turn out to be compatible with this new AP method. We already know that they switched I.C's numerous times, so certain batches of the cart may require different updates, if any carts are compatible, that is. I predict a mess.


----------



## shoyrumaster11 (Sep 25, 2012)

Another World said:


> what will be interesting is to see what the active flash kit teams decide to do. this could either mean a new round of kits from the active teams (of which there are only a few left) or this could mean the end of an era is finally upon us.



Well, If the old teams die out (excluding the SC team, always on the ball when there's a new update) and we do get new cards. (Like maybe a couple of R4's, 



Spoiler



I have a friend who has CFW on his PSP! Maybe it would be nice to hack the 3DS to give it the CFW life!


----------



## ferret7463 (Sep 25, 2012)

It's not like the cards are useless, they will still play on the phat and lite.


----------



## Another World (Sep 25, 2012)

Don't forget the dsi, dsi xl, and 3ds systems running 4.3.0-10.

-another world


----------



## lokomelo (Sep 25, 2012)

This fact put DS Lite on top of my list again. But if it is really a huge flashcard killer, they will release a DSi update soon.


----------



## Deleted-236924 (Sep 25, 2012)

*looks at his dstwo*
*smiles*


----------



## Janthran (Sep 25, 2012)

Gahars said:


> And they're gone, like a flash (kit) in the pan...


please stop this gahars


----------



## Valwin (Sep 25, 2012)

Nintendo have done a great job on the whole 3ds security, this why I think the 3ds will never be hacked.


----------



## lokomelo (Sep 25, 2012)

Pingouin7 said:


> *looks at his dstwo*
> *smiles*


Dont get fooled by the fact that dstwo is still alive. This kind of update affect all the "scene" in a direct or indirect way.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 25, 2012)

Janthran said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > And they're gone, like a flash (kit) in the pan...
> ...



Fix'd.


----------



## Janthran (Sep 25, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Janthran said:
> 
> 
> > Gahars said:
> ...


I don't understand.
I was demanding, not "sayin'".


----------



## dgwillia (Sep 25, 2012)

Ah fuck.....well atleast I still have my DS Lite.

Though I might be buying an Supercard DSTWO soon. Still, cant believe Nintendo finally managed to do it....also, when it says "xxxxr4" does that mean like R4i Gold?


----------



## RupeeClock (Sep 25, 2012)

Another World said:


> don't forget the dsi, dsi xl, and 3ds systems running 4.3.0-10.
> 
> -another world


So right now that would be JUST the 3DS systems? DSi hasn't updated in quite some time to my knowledge.

I'm a little confused as to what makes the DSTwo and R4i Gold capable of circumventing this block that other flashcarts apparently cannot, like the Acekard 2i.


----------



## steve007 (Sep 25, 2012)

Is AK2i blocked (?) 3ds one


----------



## Deleted-236924 (Sep 25, 2012)

steve007 said:


> Is AK2i blocked (?) 3ds one


I think this post deserves the award of the second best reading skills.


----------



## C-Kronos (Sep 25, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Nintendo have done a great job on the whole 3ds security, this why I think the 3ds will never be hacked.



Yeah.. Remember when Sony was going on about how great their security for the PS3 was, and it ended up to be a total fail? Everything is hackable, it's just a matter of time.

It's blatantly obvious that the encryption keys for newer firmware versions of the PS3 have been obtained, but the methods and the keys aren't being leaked for obvious reasons.. If you don't know, it's because Sony is sue happy, and a lot of people just don't want to bother with the financial issues that will be brought upon them from being sued.

If you really want the honest truth, from a software standpoint, the 360 is a hell of a lot more secure than the PS3; and no, the firmware flashing for the DVD drive doesn't count as it only allows you to play burnt discs, and not boot unsigned code. Although, the SMC hack that's known as JTAG for the 360 is more of a software hack than anything, but it only works on some seriously old versions of the 360 kernel. RGH is the reset glitch hack, and basically, it resets the CPU causing it to run in a glitched state that allows unsigned code to be booted, so RGH is more of a hardware oriented exploit.

The 3DS will be hacked, it's hacking scene is in it's infancy though, and there's only a few people who are seriously working on it and doing the research that will serve as the groundwork for further developments for the console in the future. The "better" the security on a device is, the more people it'll eventually attract to hack it, because it'll serve as a good challenge and a great learning experience. You obviously lack any knowledge of the time and research that goes into hacking a console, so keep your mouth shut about topics that you're ignorant about.


----------



## TyBlood13 (Sep 25, 2012)

lokomelo said:


> This fact put DS Lite on top of my list again. But if it is really a huge flashcard killer, they will release a DSi update soon.


O RLY NOW? DSi Update? _Right. _Highly doubtful.


----------



## loco365 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well damn. Looks like I'll be upgrading soon.


----------



## Dimensional (Sep 25, 2012)

I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?

While I don't understand, I could understand why the SC DS2 isn't blocked. With it's own built in CPU, the moment you give it power it starts working. You don't need the DS to access the code on there manually. Turn the system on, card gets power, and starts workin on it's own. That means as soon as the 3DS powers up and starts reading the card, the DS2 is getting power and starting up on it's own. In those milliseconds, the 3DS is pinging and reading the responses from the card. All other cards can't fake the responses, and that's how they would be blocked. However, the DS2's CPU would receive those signals, and with it's own bios, it would be programmed to respond in a timely fashon and with the proper 'challenge responses' to trick the 3DS. The CPU gives the DS2 a hardware method of near 0-day bypassing.

Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board? Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 25, 2012)

Damn, and I was JUST about to sell my DStwo in favor of an Acekard. 

I hardly ever use my 3DS for DS roms anymore, so I doubt I would have cared if I did sell it anyway.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 25, 2012)

steve007 said:


> Is AK2i blocked (?) 3ds one


It's not just blocked, but if you put your Acekard 2i in your 3DS, the card will burst into flames! True story, test and everything!


----------



## Janthran (Sep 25, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> steve007 said:
> 
> 
> > Is AK2i blocked (?) 3ds one
> ...


Confirmed, I tried this with my brother's Acekard and now he's mad at me


----------



## jimmyemunoz (Sep 25, 2012)

Dimensional said:


> I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?
> Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board? Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?


Where are the Chinese/Japanese speakers who have time, and don't mind translating the Supercard Team's post in proper English?


----------



## YayMii (Sep 25, 2012)

Dimensional said:


> I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?
> 
> While I don't understand, I could understand why the SC DS2 isn't blocked. With it's own built in CPU, the moment you give it power it starts working. You don't need the DS to access the code on there manually. Turn the system on, card gets power, and starts workin on it's own. That means as soon as the 3DS powers up and starts reading the card, the DS2 is getting power and starting up on it's own. In those milliseconds, the 3DS is pinging and reading the responses from the card. All other cards can't fake the responses, and that's how they would be blocked. However, the DS2's CPU would receive those signals, and with it's own bios, it would be programmed to respond in a timely fashon and with the proper 'challenge responses' to trick the 3DS. The CPU gives the DS2 a hardware method of near 0-day bypassing.
> 
> Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board? Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?


I don't really know much about the technicalities of how flashcarts work, but the way I'm interpreting it as is this:

1. Most cards don't have a proper bypass chip on them, so they can't function on the new 3DS firmware ever.
2. Many that do have said chip on them can't be rewritten due to the data being fixed by the "main control program", and this could only be changed by the manufacturer.
And this would mean all flashcarts are blocked save for the DStwo and whatever R4 clones that do have proper rewritable bypass chips.


----------



## jimmyemunoz (Sep 25, 2012)

So it's just like it sounds. Who thinks the different card manufacturers are going to reflash the FPGA chips?


----------



## Xuang (Sep 25, 2012)

Dang, I updated but it's not like I'm using my 3ds since I already have a DSi


----------



## Aurora Wright (Sep 25, 2012)

YayMii said:


> Dimensional said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?
> ...


It's simpler: according to yellows8 the firmware now checks if the inserted card has a save chip (eeprom). Saves are hold on these chips on a retail card, and most flashcards don't have it, they patch the game executable to save directly to the microSD.


----------



## Dimensional (Sep 25, 2012)

YayMii said:


> I don't really know much about the technicalities of how flashcarts work, but the way I'm interpreting it as is this:
> 
> 1. Most cards don't have a proper bypass chip on them, so they can't function on the new 3DS firmware ever.
> 2. Many that do have said chip on them can't be rewritten due to the data being fixed by the "main control program", and this could only be changed by the manufacturer.
> And this would mean all flashcarts are blocked save for the DStwo and whatever R4 clones that do have proper rewritable bypass chips.


Ah. That would make sense. The CPU would count as the proper chip but it's rewritable, at least the bios is. All it would need is an update to the bios and a data file that the bios would link to at startup. The CPU is able to trick 3DS into thinking it has EEPROM.


----------



## Xenirina (Sep 25, 2012)

Looks like my Acekard 2i is going be to useless now.
I'll order a DSTwo.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 25, 2012)

Janthran said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > And they're gone, like a flash (kit) in the pan...
> ...



Please, that was nothing. I just couldn't think of a good enough lead up for a Flashdance reference.


----------



## KidIce (Sep 25, 2012)

Dimensional said:


> I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?
> 
> While I don't understand, I could understand why the SC DS2 isn't blocked. With it's own built in CPU, the moment you give it power it starts working. You don't need the DS to access the code on there manually. Turn the system on, card gets power, and starts workin on it's own. That means as soon as the 3DS powers up and starts reading the card, the DS2 is getting power and starting up on it's own. In those milliseconds, the 3DS is pinging and reading the responses from the card. All other cards can't fake the responses, and that's how they would be blocked. However, the DS2's CPU would receive those signals, and with it's own bios, it would be programmed to respond in a timely fashon and with the proper 'challenge responses' to trick the 3DS. The CPU gives the DS2 a hardware method of near 0-day bypassing.
> 
> Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board? Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?



IC stands for integrated circuit. Pretty much any chip you can think of is one. Think about laying out all the transistors and such needed for a chip on a bread board, those would not be integrated because they are not contained in one package. An integrated circuit in today's age has them all in silicon in one package.

It sounds like most flash cart manufacturers have not built the saver IC's into their FPGA's, and the unprotected space left is for not enough to create a saver IC there... When programing an FPGA you can chose what real estate is protected and what is not, most flash cart makers these days leave some of it unprotected so that you can flash it to combat updates from Nintendo. Thing is, most have probably only left what they felt was the minimum required unprotected. These are the carts that are blocked forever as they no longer have enough alterable real estate to build in the saver IC. Even if there is enough protected real estate, or some could be re-purposed to create the saver, only the manufacturer can alter protected space, hence the claim that the carts would need to be sent to the factory. Even if you have a JTAG you are going to need the keys to properly alter the protected space.

Apparently the SC team either has already created the saver IC on their FPGA or they left enough unprotected space to create one. My logic says the in-built CPU probably has nothing to do w/ it or the R4 that still works wouldn't. The problem is I see another way for Nintendo to block those carts that do have a saver IC on the FPGA, but I won't share... I don't want to give them ideas. I will say this, there is a finite list of exploitable games and if their next move is my idea (if they haven't already implemented it), that list just shrank a lot. Ultimately black listed headers coupled w/ the other two factors will pretty much kill DS flash carts on the 3DS if there is not enough unprotected real estate on their FPGA's.


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Sep 25, 2012)

It's actually a preatty simple while very effective soloution. You have to wonder why they never tried it before.

Glad I upgraded to the DS2 when I got the 3ds. Even though I'm sure we will see new flashcards with the extra chip/space needed.


----------



## jalaneme (Sep 25, 2012)

Another World said:


> Don't forget the dsi, dsi xl, and 3ds systems running 4.3.0-10.
> 
> -another world



Only difference is on the dsi and dsixl there is no auto update, on the 3ds there is, well done to the clever peeps who kept their dsi's and lites.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 25, 2012)

Thank god there's no reason to even update the 3DS. Would be a pain if there was.
I think I last updated my 3DS about a month after I bought it...and I don't even know why I did it then either.


----------



## 2ndApex (Sep 25, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Thank god there's no reason to even update the 3DS. Would be a pain if there was.
> I think I last updated my 3DS about a month after I bought it...and I don't even know why I did it then either.



There's the eShop, but most people don't use it for anything but demos.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 25, 2012)

Hm... I sold my SuperCard DSTwo a while ago in favor of an R4 Gold, but never got around to it. Now I'm wondering if it's even worth it...

That said, I've been considering grabbing a DSLite for GBA games and easy flashcart use without any update mess anyway.


----------



## Gh0sti (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm impressed Nintendo finally did this I'm glad I own a DS2 still and cant wait to get a 3DS to use this one sometime.


----------



## NightsOwl (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, I've wanted to start buying all the stuff I've been pirating for all these years.

I'm gonna take this opportunity to do so. I'm too lazy to pay for a new card. I'll keep my Original R4 on my Lite for homebrew. Beat all the games I care about anyway.


----------



## nl255 (Sep 25, 2012)

Dimensional said:


> I don't understand what they mean by IC. Integrated Chip? What do they mean by have Save IC and without save IC, and the burning of the FPGA board?
> 
> While I don't understand, I could understand why the SC DS2 isn't blocked. With it's own built in CPU, the moment you give it power it starts working. You don't need the DS to access the code on there manually. Turn the system on, card gets power, and starts workin on it's own. That means as soon as the 3DS powers up and starts reading the card, the DS2 is getting power and starting up on it's own. In those milliseconds, the 3DS is pinging and reading the responses from the card. All other cards can't fake the responses, and that's how they would be blocked. However, the DS2's CPU would receive those signals, and with it's own bios, it would be programmed to respond in a timely fashon and with the proper 'challenge responses' to trick the 3DS. The CPU gives the DS2 a hardware method of near 0-day bypassing.
> 
> Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board? Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?



Saver IC = the eeprom/flash chip that games used to store saved games.
FPGA = Field Programmable Gate Array, basically a CPU that can be completely reprogrammed (even with a completely different instruction set) with firmware updates.

From what I understand, if the game used (say, Danny Phantom) has a certain save chip (like 1M Flash) then the 3DS will check to see if the cart actually has a 1M flash save chip before allowing it to boot.


----------



## Bowser-jr (Sep 25, 2012)

I have an R4 GOLD 3DS that supports the Wood firmware. I'm sure they'll come up with update soon. I mean, they did show a video of proof right? We don't really have much to worry about.


----------



## notmeanymore (Sep 25, 2012)

Well now two of my friends are screwed because I talked them into buying AceKards some months back. I doubt a SCDS2 is in either one's budget so what exactly is a "xxx r4"?


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 25, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Janthran said:
> 
> 
> > Gahars said:
> ...



Flash Carts! Ahhhhhhhhh! They blocked every one of us! (Crazy guitar riff)

Mucho internets if you even get the reference.


----------



## notmeanymore (Sep 25, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> Another World said:
> 
> 
> > don't forget the dsi, dsi xl, and 3ds systems running 4.3.0-10.
> ...



There's no auto update on 3DS either. It annoys me every time I open my 3DS because it asks if I want to update, but it doesn't go beyond that.
What would be nice right now (assuming that a CFW is not in the near future and that there really are only a few kits left that work and can't be fixed) is a smaller exploit that would allow for a modified eShop that doesn't have an update check.


----------



## 431unknown (Sep 25, 2012)

YouTube links don't like my phone but I think this is what TwinRetro you were referring to. http://youtu.be/m9kCCLwEga8


----------



## CannonFoddr (Sep 25, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Janthran said:
> ...


I do...... you missed out the 'dun dun dun dun dun' background bit !!!!


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Nintendo have done a great job on the whole 3ds security, this why I think the 3ds will never be hacked.


...it took them 4 years to figure out that flashcarts have different hardware than original carts and they can utilize that to block them. Throughout the entire DSi line, nobody came up with that - Nintendo was consistently losing money on DS game sales year after year, and you're telling me they've done a great job on the security? _Valwin, please..._

Fun Fact: The phrase _"Valwin, please..."_ requires a rage face. I'll be thinking about that today, maybe I come up with something.
Fun Fact 2: Wait, I think I got something...


----------



## Mantis41 (Sep 25, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> It's actually a preatty simple while very effective soloution. You have to wonder why they never tried it before.
> 
> Glad I upgraded to the DS2 when I got the 3ds. Even though I'm sure we will see new flashcards with the extra chip/space needed.


Hmmm, I wonder.......................Thinks back to another thread.


----------



## GamerzHell9137 (Sep 25, 2012)

Ohhhh....
Well that means I am stuck on 4.3 xD
Phew... Its good that I didn't update, I would be doomed if I did lol.


----------



## indask8 (Sep 25, 2012)

I guess there will be soon a firmware update for the DSi too.

Now I'm curious to see how flashcart manufacturer will react, either:
-they'll abandon the ds flashcart market
-try to bypass this by making new flashcarts
-focus on the future.


----------



## Wolfenpilot687 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, well, well.
I guess it's great that I still have my DSiXL AND a DSTwo.
Still, I guess I'll keep my flashcard business on the DSi. That thing has a great battery.
I still think the DSTwo shouldn't be such a power hog. So much for the extra-processor. Should have added an external switch to turn it off, but eh.


----------



## Wizerzak (Sep 25, 2012)

Meh... who cares?

DS Lite + original R4 + Wood = Problem solved.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well guess this means it makes my update thread a lot easier.

Hopefully flashcard developers will hold there hands up so people can be informed.

I have assumed all other supercard cards are blocked as they state only DSTwo

looks like the r4ids.cn will still live
not sure on any others

no idea why people bothered
there was no bonus hardware available for flashcards that could be used
so just buy a DSLite
there cheaper than a DSTwo, just go down to a pawn shop, I've seen um there for £35 max, seen some places £17


----------



## Minox (Sep 25, 2012)

This is one of the main reasons I still keep my DS Lite around for whenever I actually feel like using a flashcart. The system can't be updated and therefore there is no need to worry about being blocked.


----------



## nl255 (Sep 25, 2012)

Wolfenpilot687 said:


> Well, well, well.
> I guess it's great that I still have my DSiXL AND a DSTwo.
> Still, I guess I'll keep my flashcard business on the DSi. That thing has a great battery.
> I still think the DSTwo shouldn't be such a power hog. So much for the extra-processor. Should have added an external switch to turn it off, but eh.



The CPU is necessary to make the save state and in game text reader work as well as it does.  It is probably not possible to turn off the CPU without also turning off the in game menu as well.


----------



## Wolfenpilot687 (Sep 25, 2012)

nl255 said:


> Wolfenpilot687 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, well, well.
> ...


Well, I don't have much use for that.
Sometimes, it would be fine if it behaved like a regular flashcard.
But well, that's how it is.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 25, 2012)

Anyone remember the blink tag?

Just a freakin test yep.


----------



## furbyhaterex (Sep 25, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > Janthran said:
> ...



Queens, from the Flash Gordon album?


----------



## Another World (Sep 25, 2012)

furbyhaterex said:


> Queens, from the Flash Gordon album?



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080745/

-another world


----------



## heartgold (Sep 25, 2012)

By luck my SCDS2 arrived yesterday.  I guess my AK2i is limited to my DSi and old 3DS.

Weren't there a limited capable headers that could be exploited, why don't Nintendo just end it.





Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo have done a great job on the whole 3ds security, this why I think the 3ds will never be hack.
> ...


Obviously Valwin is referring to 3DS mode, if so you can't bash him as the 3DS is nowhere to be exploited at this current date.

However saying 'never' lol What is made by man, can be broken into.


----------



## retrodoctor (Sep 25, 2012)

Maybe this will force some people to get jobs.


----------



## bazamuffin (Sep 25, 2012)

retrodoctor said:


> Maybe this will force some people to get jobs.



Yes, because that is the aim of N's updates.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 25, 2012)

As this was an update to the firmware part could this not also affect the DSi & DSiXL with an update?


----------



## Hielkenator (Sep 25, 2012)

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/07/nintendo_determined_to_beat_hackers_with_wii_u_and_3ds


----------



## signz (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, that kinda sucks for you guys with a 3DS and without a SCDS2. I, too, wonder what the other teams are gonna do now.


----------



## Chrisssj2 (Sep 25, 2012)

SO let me get this straight? This topic is making my head spin...

First it says ALL flashcards are blocked but then...  No wait. SupercardDStwo is fine..? Can anyone confirm this themselves?


----------



## porkiewpyne (Sep 25, 2012)

Chrisssj2 said:


> SO let me get this straight? This topic is making my head spin...
> 
> First it says ALL flashcards are blocked but then...  No wait. SupercardDStwo is fine..? Can anyone confirm this themselves?


_*ALMOST*_ all. There's quite a difference.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 25, 2012)

porkiewpyne said:


> Chrisssj2 said:
> 
> 
> > SO let me get this straight? This topic is making my head spin...
> ...



Supercard DSTwo
R4ids.cn R4i Gold
r4idsn.com R4
these are the known survivors so far that can receive an update for 4.4.0-10


----------



## bazamuffin (Sep 25, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> Supercard DSTwo
> R4ids.cn R4i Gold
> r4idsn.com R4
> these are the known survivors so far that can receive an update for 4.4.0-10



So glad I switched from AK2i to R4i Gold 3DS (R4ids.cn)


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 25, 2012)

bazamuffin said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > Supercard DSTwo
> ...



yea, they're a well built card

trying to keep on top of this whole IC chip issue on my firmware thread LOL


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 25, 2012)

I said it on IRC last night but 2007 vintage me that saw savelist functionality going away when the ever so slightly more simple to use R4 style save patching took off feels vindicated once more.

The technical side of things, others have taken some of it but I feel like going as well.
http://hackmii.com/2010/02/lawsuit-coming-in-3-2-1/ covers how DS flash carts used to work on the DSi and 3ds.
The short version is DS games have several places where code can be launched from and one of these (namely the overlays) went kind of unchecked which is how flash carts got in. There is only a limited amount of potential titles here as the overlays needed to load early on and automatically and once the DSi was released all new DS games carried additional security which could not be faked.
First Nintendo checked for a proper icon and name which is why carts stopped having their own ones and instead used the name of the game they faked.
Then Nintendo started to check the game that was faked, these initial checks were fairly simple and easy to work around which is why some of the teams made the effort to keep their original faked game working (others just rebuilt for a new ROM). This happened a few times.
Nintendo then made proper "random" checks so it turned to just finding a new game every time, some teams found an overlay that did not launch immediately but a few seconds in which is why you had a choice of updates for some if you did not need 3ds/DSi compatibility.

If what the Supercard people have said is true then this time Nintendo started to check the save is what "should be"- as mentioned in the opening sentence most flash carts once the R4 got big decided to instead just patch games rather than make a list of saves and emulate the save chip (EEPROM and Flash are brutally simple to emulate down to the timings and signals compatibility level in CPLD and FPGA type programmable devices as indeed they were for said devices with savelists). Supercard brought back the idea of the save list/save chip emulation in their DSTwo's clean mode thing to have games work until their AP could be cracked (the old EZ5 lost the savelist way back when as it was dropped to compete with the "drag and drop but update your kernel occasionally/every few days" R4, but for years and years it could use it to run games before they were cracked/patched) hence their possibly being able to work around this update and others not being so lucky. I imagine the only reason some R4 named cards still work is because Nintendo have not got a broad fix (it is why some cards do not get kicked during updates- it is the only reason I can imagine the EZ5i stuck around through a couple of updates) but are still playing whack a mole with the cards and as there are a few dozen individual ones from a few dozen sites all doing their own thing getting them all is a fair ask. For the record as well/to hopefully help someone the save hardware is fairly general use ( http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm#dscartridgebackup ) as you probably saw with the issues surrounding save dumping when pokemon got the pokewalker- they sat the IR communications on the save bus (behind a selector switch) which had not been done before.
If then most cards do not have the capability to emulate a save chip of the appropriate form (and it would have been easier to just accept signals and convert them accordingly rather than emulate it) then they are indeed blocked unless a custom firmware for the 3ds comes down, to answer the question of could it happen to the DSi I see no reason why it could not happen.




Spoiler: Silly rambling



It will not happen and I see anyone even slightly worried about it I will have to laugh (not to mention they have had the option for years and have not done it) but theoretically it could even happen to the original DS (DSlite had a bit more protected firmware so I am not sure how that works unless the game told you to short SL1 yourself) as it had a firmware chip that was updated to add wifi (at which point you would just get a copy of ppflash from http://www.darkfader.net/ds/ and use it to reset it if you did not have flashme).


----------



## Rydian (Sep 25, 2012)

insidexdeath said:


> Even the R4i Gold(r4ids.cn) team confirmed they got the flashcart working on the 4.4.0-10


Yes, and the R4i Gold 3DS model is a "class2" cart, not a "class1".



RupeeClock said:


> I'm a little confused as to what makes the DSTwo and R4i Gold capable of circumventing this block that other flashcarts apparently cannot, like the Acekard 2i.





Rydian said:


> The DSTwo and R4i Gold are not read unless they have a MicroSD in them.
> Even after putting a MicroSD in the DSTwo, however, it has to be one that has the correct software on it, or you get the DSi/3DS error.
> (The R4i Gold can try to boot without the correct MicroSD.)
> 
> ...





Dimensional said:


> Anyways, can I please be told what they meant by the IC and the burning of the FPGA board?


Flash carts use FPGAs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array
They're like programmable processors, and they have parts that are locked (to writing) and parts that can be unlocked.  Flash carts re-write the unlocked parts when they update in order to write new DS cart header/ROM data on them to give the carts a new "identity" so they get around DSi/3DS updates.

It seems that how complex and re-writable carts are varies highly.  For example the original R4 model cannot be rewritten at all (and has very little storage space), which is why it was never able to be updated for the DSi and 3DS.  On the other hand the HWID44 Acekard 2i, while having rewritable portions, doesn't include as much space for updates as the HWID88 model, which is most likely why the HWID44 model stopped updating a while back (it just could no longer fit all the data needed).  Newer flash carts are even more complex and have larger amounts of rewriteable space/data.

*If this news is true* (the inability to update has not been confirmed by the actual "class1" model teams), then Nintendo targeted the AK2i and others in it's class based on certain static (unable to be modified) parts of the FPGA, while more complex carts like the DSTwo retain the ability to modify the targeted data to match what Nintendo's looking for.

*tl;dr* So it seems the 3DS checks for more than just valid headers now, and unfortunately "class1" carts can only have their header data modified, they were never built to reconfigure themselves to a bigger extent (while other carts can be).



Dimensional said:


> Did the 3DS manage to find a way to overload the flashcarts, making them useless on every system?


There's no bricking.



heartgold said:


> Weren't there a limited capable headers that could be exploited, why don't Nintendo just end it.


Because they they'd have to go around and modify the data on all the DS carts that were sold between the first game and the creation of the DSi, or they wouldn't be able to run on the DSi/3DS.



Pong20302000 said:


> As this was an update to the firmware part could this not also affect the DSi & DSiXL with an update?


Maybe, maybe not.  Depends on how much of the cart booting process can be modified.


----------



## astrangeone (Sep 25, 2012)

Yay - time to go back to the DS Lite for flashcart fun, I think.  (I kept my silver DS Lite for a reason.)

I have an R4i3DS, M3i Zero - but I rarely use these on my 3DS - it's more for gaming and streetpass.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Obviously Valwin is referring to 3DS mode, if so you can't bash him as the 3DS is nowhere to be exploited at this current date.
> 
> However saying 'never' lol What is made by man, can be broken into.


Agreed with the second part, but the way I see it, the DS sandbox is as much a part of the 3DS's firmware as any other module it contains, so saying that its security measures were top-notch out of the box is a little bit of a stretch, hence my comment. 

The 3DS - believe it or not - is still early in its life-cycle. The DS was released in 21st November 2004, and the first devices to allow execution of homebrew code were created March 4th 2005, and weren't even sold to the public yet (I'm referring to Natrium's PassMe - correct me if I'm wrong on this one), and that's only because of a hardware flaw - GBA emulation was native, so a hacker could re-direct execution of code to read from the GBA slot, provided a game with a vulnerable header (containing a pointer) was inserted in the PassMe. The 3DS has no such hardware-related vulnerability (or none were found so-far), so it's obviously taking a while longer.


----------



## jalaneme (Sep 25, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> There's no auto update on 3DS either. It annoys me every time I open my 3DS because it asks if I want to update, but it doesn't go beyond that.
> What would be nice right now (assuming that a CFW is not in the near future and that there really are only a few kits left that work and can't be fixed) is a smaller exploit that would allow for a modified eShop that doesn't have an update check.



It's intrusive and you can't get rid off it, on dsi you don't get that and because my net connection on my dsi is permanently off as I use the 3ds for eshop, and yes we need a firmware bypass for eshop and online gaming too, people would love to still play online with out those forced update prompts all the time, you could turn off wireless on 3ds but as soon as the update downloaded to your 3ds even in offline mode it will stay there forever till you update, plus streetpass and spotpass make turning off the wireless switch much difficult.

Also what happens when Nintendo phase out the dsi's completely? Ds lites have stopped production so dsi's are the only ones left.


----------



## WongZhanWenMelvi (Sep 25, 2012)

Well this blocking of AK2i sucks. I was contemplating getting a 3DS (superior graphics) to complement my DS Lite (GBA support) system. No wonder my favorite shop stopped selling Acekards and just went with R4i Golds.


----------



## Qtis (Sep 25, 2012)

Interesting times! Now to get the popcorn and wait what will happen to the DSTwo & Co. in the future 


@[member='Rydian']: It could be good to note that Class 3 is also blocked so far since the iCyclo hasn't been updated after the save checking update before. I presume it could be circumvented if someone was able to alter the iCyclo bootloader/firmware, but so far it's a no-go. That leaves us with Class 2 and the carts there. Is there any ideas in the future of blocking the rest of them in one way or the other?


----------



## jalaneme (Sep 25, 2012)

Wizerzak said:


> Meh... who cares?
> 
> DS Lite + original R4 + Wood = Problem solved.



Even better: 

Dsi xl+Supercard dstwo+16gb micro sd= end of the world


----------



## McHaggis (Sep 25, 2012)

It makes you wonder if Nintendo have recently hired an expert that came up with the idea, or were tipped off.  I suspect that they could also block the remaining class2 flash cards permanently by finding other unique hardware differences.  Take the DSTWO, for instance, which has a built-in CPU.  If DS homebrew can detect and take advantage of this additional CPU, what's stopping Nintendo from running a small amount of code that does the same when a card is inserted?


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm still wondering why Nintendo didn't do this before.
The system is almost a year and half,
and this is a simple security check that could be done even at the release of 3DS.

This is bad news for gbatemp community,
and we can say Nintendo won this round at blocking flashcards.
The thing that I'm most afraid is of what could come next.
DSTwo is working and R4i Gold will probably work,
but with the security being tightened even more,
we may have 100% of flashcards blocked in few time.


----------



## Langin (Sep 25, 2012)

I must say nice job Nintendo for doing things right, finally they've fucked all those stupid people who don't know R4 is illegal 

Why am I so annoyed? Well one reason, consumers at the toy shop ask this: 'Do you have an R4 Card? Why not? Wait why is it illegal?'

*sigh*

When I was a pirate I really felt bad I couldn't enjoy my games but now... *smiles* yeah now I feel good!


----------



## narutopet112 (Sep 25, 2012)

Glad that I have a supercard dstwo.


----------



## WiiUBricker (Sep 25, 2012)

There is nothing better than a DS lite + Cyclo DS (not iEVO) anyway. Good built quality, cart fits perfectly in the card slot, native GBA support with an expansion pack, nive GUI, doesn't eat the battery's power that much, unbrickable, most games run out of the box (some new games require external AP fixes since team cyclops is no more), and finally DS games look exactly how they are supposed to look (no bigger pixels, no stupid upscaling).


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

WiiBricker said:


> There is nothing better than a DS lite + Cyclo DS (not iEVO) anyway. Good built quality, cart fits perfectly in the card slot, native GBA support with an expansion pack, nive GUI, doesn't eat the battery's power that much, unbrickable, most games run out of the box (some new games require external AP fixes since team cyclops is no more), and finally DS games look exactly how they are supposed to look (no bigger pixels, no stupid upscaling).



Acekard 2i(HW81) and R4i Gold(www.r4ids.cn) fit perfectly in the DSLite stot
Acekard uses Akaio and R4i Gold uses Wood.
Both have great kernels, with instant updates,
that makes it almost unnecesary to do AP patches.
They share the same amazing theme scheme,
and have low battery consumption.

With all that said, I believe they are better for DSLite usage,
than Cyclo iEvo.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 25, 2012)

You know, part of me says I should just go ahead and actually buy DS games (it's the only "modern" generation of games I'm guilty of pirating), but the other part of me whines "So much wasted SPAAAAAAAACE..."

Meh, I suppose I COULD just buy the actual games AND keep them backed up on the flash cart... but even then, wasted space keeping the game carts in my 1-room apartment. *Sigh*... (first world problems). I honestly don't particularly have a problem with not pirating, it's not being able to keep all my games on one cart I have a problem with.


----------



## quantum1024 (Sep 25, 2012)

So that's why my favorite store has stopped carrying AK2i for R4i Golds.


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> You know, part of me says I should just go ahead and actually buy DS games (it's the only "modern" generation of games I'm guilty of pirating), but the other part of me whines "So much wasted SPAAAAAAAACE..."
> 
> Meh, I suppose I COULD just buy the actual games AND keep them backed up on the flash cart... but even then, wasted space keeping the game carts in my 1-room apartment. *Sigh*... (first world problems). I honestly don't particularly have a problem with not pirating, it's not being able to keep all my games on one cart I have a problem with.



If DS games were sold on DSiWare it would be much better for you and for me.
I just don't buy games because I don't have a way to carry that much catridges.
DSi games could be easily put as DSiWare titles, so I don't understand why Nintendo does not do this.
Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 could have amazing sales on e-shop/DSiWare.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Sep 25, 2012)

I just don't buy DS games, because I am poor and 3DS games already cost me a little fortune =/.
Looking at the bright side, at least this update will temporalily kill the bad quality R4 clones and maybe force the flashcards team to make better quality cards, it's bad for many of us that will have to buy new carts though.


----------



## TheDreamLord (Sep 25, 2012)

So glad I bought a DSTWO now, however yes, it will increase the drive for hacking the 3DS.


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

RodrigoDavy said:


> I just don't buy DS games, because I am poor and 3DS games already cost me a little fortune =/.
> Looking at the bright side, at least this update will temporalily kill the bad quality R4 clones and maybe force the flashcards team to make better quality cards, it's bad for many of us that will have to buy new carts though.



This was one of the first things I thought, but worse than the blocking, is Nintendo's message with this update.
Nintendo is starting to take more precautions about DS flashcards, and if they keep that way, 100% of flashcards will be permanent blocked soon.


----------



## Crimsonclaw111 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, I was contemplating getting an Acekard again but now I can forget about that. I'll just grab an R4i Gold instead. This is the Wood compatible one correct? From what I gather it is, but you can never be too sure with R4 imo:

http://realhotstuff2.3dcartstores.com/R4i-Gold-3DS_p_86.html


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

Crimsonclaw111 said:


> Well, I was contemplating getting an Acekard again but now I can forget about that. I'll just grab an R4i Gold instead. This is the Wood compatible one correct? From what I gather it is, but you can never be too sure with R4 imo:
> 
> http://realhotstuff2...d-3DS_p_86.html



Yes, it is!
When you have a doubt like that, 
check the site of the flashcard.
This is from www.r4ids.cn
Which is officialy supported by Wood,
and is recommended by GBATemp


----------



## BurlyEd (Sep 25, 2012)

I am glad I have a DS-Lite, a DSI-XL and two DSTWOs.
I am even more glad that I have a Core i5-3570K that can run DeSmuME x64 at flank speed.
But I will still buy a 3DS-XL if/when I can run Dragon Quest Monsters Terry's Wonderland 3D on it - in English - in 3D.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Sep 25, 2012)

I thought this day would never come. They've finally managed to patch flashcarts properly. Props to Ninty for that. Glad I have a DSTWO.


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

BurlyEd said:


> I am glad I have a DS-Lite, a DSI-XL and two DSTWOs.
> I am even more glad that I have a Core i5-3570K that can run DeSmuME x64 at flank speed.
> But I will still buy a 3DS-XL if/when I can run Dragon Quest Monsters Terry's Wonderland 3D on it - in English - in 3D.



I'm really hoping for that game too.
Monster Joker was awesome.
My fear is that this game does not get localized to NA.
Monster Joker 2 Pro never came to NA or Europe.


----------



## Crimsonclaw111 (Sep 25, 2012)

VMM said:


> Yes, it is!
> When you have a doubt like that,
> check the site of the flashcard.
> This is from www.r4ids.cn
> ...



Yay. Alright, thanks. I would have looked up the site but I could not see the website on the box or the item description, but I have checked the site before and saw the boxing. I just wanted to make sure it was genuine.

Never been screwed by RHS before.


----------



## GeekyGuy (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, talk about fixing the corral after the horses have escaped...


----------



## Zarxrax (Sep 25, 2012)

I think we will see a new generation of flash cards come out now, similar to DSTWO in that they have an additional processor in the cart.
I think we will see at least one where the extra cpu is just powerful enough to do what is necessary to bypass the ap protection and whatnot, but not so powerful that it drains the battery like DSTWO.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 25, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> I think we will see a new generation of flash cards come out now, similar to DSTWO in that they have an additional processor in the cart.
> I think we will see at least one where the extra cpu is just powerful enough to do what is necessary to bypass the ap protection and whatnot, but not so powerful that it drains the battery like DSTWO.


Hopefully. That's my main problem with the DSTwo, as well as the main reason I got rid of mine.


----------



## Valwin (Sep 25, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo have done a great job on the whole 3ds security, this why I think the 3ds will never be hacked.
> ...




took the allies 4 years to figure out how to stop the German uboats  in the Atlantic


stuff takes time


----------



## rehevkor (Sep 25, 2012)

Nooo.. I have my DSTWO but I always preferred my Acekard 2i.

Looking good for the AK team.


----------



## gamefan5 (Sep 25, 2012)

OH SHIT. Nintendo's getting serious now. YES! THE DSTWO STILL LIVES!!!!!! SO GLAD I BOUGHT ONE THIS SUMMER!!!
And still if it gets blocked. There's a reason I kept my old DS lite. XD


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2012)

damnit...do you think it's recommended that I get a DSTWO?...or will the R4i Gold do the job?


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 25, 2012)

First- it is not that the DSTwo has an extra onboard CPU just that it has the ability to emulate, at signals level, original save chips from the cart that it is faking (which is what Supercard are claiming the new checks are doing). Most other devices lack this ability as it was dropped shortly before SDHC became a thing as the original R4 style save patching method (as opposed to the better, but marginally more difficult, method of save emulation) became the dominant method of flash cart operation, this is if the devices had it at all; the idea of a savelist was not a universal one eschewed by the R4. Nobody is quite sure where anything stands with regards to being able to do save emulation right now, we have some speculation but nothing concrete just yet.

I am not sure about any cart with the name R4 but I would be shocked at all to hear that it is just something Nintendo overlooked and they will get their own save chip checks next go around- most things with R4 in the name are certain types of clones and not brand new devices specced and built by people that know exactly what they are doing. There are certainly ones that work really well as far as the end user is concerned (it does games, cheats, DLDI and soft reset would be the main requirements here) but as this very thread would appear to demonstrate that is not the whole story.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm buying this:

http://realhotstuff2...d-3DS_p_86.html

DSTWO has a hell of a lot more features..but is a hell of a lot more expensive.(i have a HTC Thunderbolt for GBA emulation, movies and music)..and I got by without those features on my Acekard 2i...I can keep getting by without them.

seems like to me though, Acekard 2i has more features.and the fix for the R4i Gold 3DS is not out yet.... fuck. I might just buy the DSTWO : /

I have a useless acekard 2i right now....what would you do?

would you wait or buy now before Nintendo starts making it impossible to get any of these carts online?


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 25, 2012)

whoopee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh-yTo_YgaM


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2012)

tigris said:


> whoopee
> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Gh-yTo_YgaM




now which R4i Gold do I need to get?...there are multiple ones out there..but only one will work..


----------



## loco365 (Sep 25, 2012)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> I'm buying this:
> 
> http://realhotstuff2...d-3DS_p_86.html
> 
> ...


I'm considering getting a DSTWO myself now. If the AK2i is permablocked now... Well crap.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2012)

Team Fail said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm buying this:
> ...



but R4i GOLD 3DS (r4ids.cn) is cheaper and has defeated the block.....why not go with that one?


----------



## nl255 (Sep 25, 2012)

Team Fail said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm buying this:
> ...



Well, the in game text reader is nice and save state support can be very useful for games without even a quicksave option.  Not to mention that you can update it even if you have already updated your dsi/3ds thanks to the "b method".


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2012)

these are places to buy a R4i GOLD 3DS (r4ids.cn)
 www.game4deal.com 
 www.dwtechz.com (United States)
 www.digimartz.com 
 www.gamezway.com 
 www.depot4u.com (Wholesale)
 www.modchipsdirect.com 
 www.iflashdsi.com 
 www.gamekool.com 
 www.gamedepot4u.com 
 www.shoptemp.net  fucking lawyers.
 www.ndsgamer.com 
 www.coolgadgetsgift.com 
 www.tobuygadget.com
www.realhotstuff.com
aaandd Supercard DSTWO.
http://www.realhotstuff.com
http://www.gocybershopping.com
http://www.0ShippingZone.com
http://www.modchipcentral.com
http://www.dscartshop.com
http://www.modchipsdirect.com
http://www.etcome.com
http://www.digitopz.com

what is reliable??? I know all of them are NOT 100% reliable in that list.

edit: dafuq  a Supercard 3DS DSTWO?...totally fake. http://www.sc3ds.com...rCard-DSTWO-3DS


----------



## Alanturing (Sep 25, 2012)

so with R4I gold there is hope for the acekard 2i ?


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2012)

Alanturing said:


> so with R4I gold there is hope for the acekard 2i ?



NO.

95% of flash carts are permanently fucked until they re-innovate. including Acekard2i


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 25, 2012)

Alanturing said:


> so with R4I gold there is hope for the acekard 2i ?


Why would you think that? They're two completely separate products that have no effect on each other.


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 25, 2012)

I bet round 2 will block the others perminatly so they may win soon


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> Alanturing said:
> 
> 
> > so with R4I gold there is hope for the acekard 2i ?
> ...



What do you mean by re-innovate?
I tought that if AK2i used the IC save correctly with a firmware update
it would be able to run on v4.4.0-10
Is that what you mean by re-innovate?
Or am I wrong?


----------



## Rydian (Sep 25, 2012)

Qtis said:


> Interesting times! Now to get the popcorn and wait what will happen to the DSTwo & Co. in the future
> 
> 
> @[member='Rydian']: It could be good to note that Class 3 is also blocked so far since the iCyclo hasn't been updated after the save checking update before. I presume it could be circumvented if someone was able to alter the iCyclo bootloader/firmware, but so far it's a no-go. That leaves us with Class 2 and the carts there. Is there any ideas in the future of blocking the rest of them in one way or the other?


Idunno' nearly enough to say.  Hell, I was holding onto that info since last May and it only became important now.



McHaggis said:


> It makes you wonder if Nintendo have recently hired an expert that came up with the idea, or were tipped off.  I suspect that they could also block the remaining class2 flash cards permanently by finding other unique hardware differences.  Take the DSTWO, for instance, which has a built-in CPU.  If DS homebrew can detect and take advantage of this additional CPU, what's stopping Nintendo from running a small amount of code that does the same when a card is inserted?


The DS units are ARM and run the code on the 3/DS/i itself, whereas the DSTwo's CPU is MIPS and only reads data from it's own MicroSD, so a DS unit feeding data to the 3DS's CPU seems unlikely.



quantum1024 said:


> So that's why my favorite store has stopped carrying AK2i for R4i Golds.


This news just came in the past 24 hours, it's likely because the AK2i started taking over a month to update.  Also "R4" gets more sales.



FAST6191 said:


> I would be shocked at all to hear that it is just something Nintendo overlooked and they will get their own save chip checks next go around


Well traditionally Nintendo's AP has been "check a few things in a few games".  Some games will check save size one way, some will check it another way, others will check for boot logo consistency, and so on.  Even with the DS, most types of AP only do one or two checks.

However when talking about blocking flash carts on the 3DS, there's a lot more power to spare.  Running some sort of sanity check on the DS that would take 10 seconds before boot is a no-go, but if the same action takes 1/3rd of a second on the 3DS, it's suddenly feasible.

"Why was the 3DS not released with this?"  It was also release without an internet browser or the eshop, and 3D video recording didn't make it in until 3.x.



stanleyopar2000 said:


> DSTWO has a hell of a lot more features..but is a hell of a lot more expensive.


DSTwo: $40.
http://realhotstuff2.3dcartstores.com/Supercard-DSTWO_p_25.html
Gets you over 99% of all DS games.

Dora The Explorer: Dora Puppy: $49
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dora-the-Explorer-Dora-Puppy-DS-Nintendo-DS/11974197
Gets you a single game.

Anyways modchipcentral.com, realhotstuff.com, and zhuzhuchina.com are usually recommended shops.



VMM said:


> What do you mean by re-innovate?
> I tought that if AK2i used the IC save correctly with a firmware update
> it would be able to run on v4.4.0-10
> Is that what you mean by re-innovate?
> Or am I wrong?


If that's part of the read-only part, then it can't be updated.

Supposedly some groups have dumped various flash cart chips (including the AK2i)... but it's not like diving in will help any, since the physical chip is protected and will need replacing (or, theoretically, re-flashing from the original factory).


----------



## Fishaman P (Sep 25, 2012)

I don't really understand the info given.
The DSi blocked existing kits with a hardware or low-level system change.  How can the 3DS do the same with a software update?  Why can't we just flash new bootstraps?


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> I don't really understand the info given.
> The DSi blocked existing kits with a hardware or low-level system change.  How can the 3DS do the same with a software update?  Why can't we just flash new bootstraps?



It wasn't possible to update the firmware on DS Phat and DS Lite.
If it was possible this same update could be used on DS Phat and DS Lite


----------



## Fishaman P (Sep 25, 2012)

VMM said:


> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really understand the info given.
> ...


I never said anything about the DS Phat or Lite.


----------



## Rydian (Sep 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> The DSi blocked existing kits with a hardware or low-level system change.
> How can the 3DS do the same with a software update?


What do you mean?  The DSi blocked carts based on software, it blocked them based on the responses they gave when asked for their ID.



Fishaman P said:


> Why can't we just flash new bootstraps?


It's no longer checking just the code given on boot.  Unfortunately for most older flash carts, the code given on boot is the only thing they made updateable, for cost reasons.


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > Fishaman P said:
> ...



Then what do you mean with DSi hardware change?


----------



## Fishaman P (Sep 25, 2012)

VMM said:


> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> > VMM said:
> ...



Exactly what I mean, the DSi hardware changes.  Not the ability to update the firmware, but actual hardware changes.
Just forget it.


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > Fishaman P said:
> ...



I don't remember of Nintendo ever releasing a new model of DSi,
correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## porkiewpyne (Sep 25, 2012)

VMM said:


> I don't remember of Nintendo ever releasing a new model of DSi,
> correct me if I'm wrong


Think he meant in terms of  DSPhat/lite to DSi/XL


----------



## VMM (Sep 25, 2012)

porkiewpyne said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > I don't remember of Nintendo ever releasing a new model of DSi,
> ...



I tought the same, but he answered me this:
I never said anything about the DS Phat or Lite


----------



## Rydian (Sep 25, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > Fishaman P said:
> ...


It's not a hardware change, it's a software change.
http://hackmii.com/2010/02/lawsuit-coming-in-3-2-1/
And the DSi/3DS updates just include additional things to check.

What he meant was that the DS/Lite couldn't have this functionality added to them because they can't update.


----------



## loco365 (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, perhaps I'll order an R4i. It's the cheaper of the two.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 26, 2012)

Team Fail said:


> Well, perhaps I'll order an R4i. It's the cheaper of the two.



likewise...it's not as good as the Acekard 2i though.......

but pirates hackers can't be choosers


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 26, 2012)

by the time Super Smash Bros 3DS comes out...it will come pre-loaded with a 100% killing flash kit update.

crap. double post. my bad,


----------



## loco365 (Sep 26, 2012)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> by the time Super Smash Bros 3DS comes out...it will come pre-loaded with a 100% killing flash kit update.
> 
> crap. double post. my bad,


Knowing Nintendo, probably.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 26, 2012)

Team Fail said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > by the time Super Smash Bros 3DS comes out...it will come pre-loaded with a 100% killing flash kit update.
> ...



with Nintendo not sparing a moment allow paid DLC to penetrate New Super Mario Bros 2, Fire Emblem (which I heard has unforgiving DLC rates)  and Final Fantasy Theatrhythm, if Nintendo fucking takes SSB 3DS to hell as well (charging extra $$ for DLC characters) then i'll sure as hell pass. if not. then SSB 3DS will be a day one purchase for me...

oh well...the R4i GOLD 3DS i'm looking at is $10.00..not much of a loss / gamble there.

edit - a little man on my shoulder is telling me I should wait until the actual patch is released for R4i GOLD 3DS...I think I will listen...


----------



## bobbyllama (Sep 26, 2012)

I've got the R4i DSN 3DS, whose website is conveniently down right now. Safe to assume this card is useless on v4.4.0-10*?

It's a shame, too. I was going to pay for Cave Story+ on Thursday but won't be able to access the eShop, as I won't be updating just yet.

Edit: Just read in post #84 that the cards from r4idsn.com have survived this round. Still waiting to see if that's the case before accepting the update.


----------



## LurkerA (Sep 26, 2012)

Zarxrax said:


> I think we will see a new generation of flash cards come out now, similar to DSTWO in that they have an additional processor in the cart.
> I think we will see at least one where the extra cpu is just powerful enough to do what is necessary to bypass the ap protection and whatnot, but not so powerful that it drains the battery like DSTWO.



Hey, don't forget the R4i Gold 3DS (www.r4ids.cn) stated that it would release a patch very soon,  I don't think there is any extra CPU on its board...


----------



## nl255 (Sep 26, 2012)

LurkerA said:


> Zarxrax said:
> 
> 
> > I think we will see a new generation of flash cards come out now, similar to DSTWO in that they have an additional processor in the cart.
> ...



It probably does have extra FPGA space on it's board though which is basically the same thing (though not nearly as fast).


----------



## KidIce (Sep 26, 2012)

FAST6191 said:


> Supercard brought back the idea of the save list/save chip emulation in their DSTwo's clean mode thing to have games work until their AP could be cracked (the old EZ5 lost a the savelist way back when as it was dropped to compete with the "drag and drop but update your kernel occasionally/every few days" R4, but for years and years it could use it to run games before they were cracked/patched) hence their possibly being able to work around this update and others not being so lucky.



While I don't miss maintaining my save list, I do miss it for all its advantages. I wish they would have done some form of hybrid. Drag and drop for the whiners and games already in their patch list, and a save list mode for the new releases and us guys who appreciated the advantages it brought. :-/

I've still got an old EZ5 (non plus or i) that I kept so I can run the old kernals that use save lists and it's PassMe functionality (another feature sadly removed). It's socketed in my lite. I'd use it more, but obviously it will not work on my DSi. I mostly use my lite for GBA and my DSi for for DS... I still don't like what DS games look like on the 3DS and the viewable space is smaller than the DSi.


----------



## Astoria (Sep 26, 2012)

Wonder if we will get a lot of new flashcards soon
Or if there will be just a few flashcards in the near future.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 26, 2012)

Josephvb10 said:


> Wonder if we will get a lot of new flashcards soon
> Or if there will be just a few flashcards in the near future.


Perhaps it'll be a while. Companies might be very hesitant to risk developing new flash carts, especially after seeing how Nintendo just wiped out almost all of them.


----------



## VMM (Sep 26, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Josephvb10 said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if we will get a lot of new flashcards soon
> ...



At least there is a good side in it:
The bad flashcards will stop being produced soon,
and the new flashcards that will come up from now will have a better buit-in quality.


----------



## LurkerA (Sep 26, 2012)

nl255 said:


> LurkerA said:
> 
> 
> > Zarxrax said:
> ...




As matter of fact, I don't think the team SCS2 got the point for how/why Nintento blocked the flashcards this time, what they stated so called - " save IC" issue by themselves is just a joke. People will get the truth after R4i Gold 3DS releasing the patch, let's wait and see..


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 26, 2012)

VMM said:


> At least there is a good side in it:
> The bad flashcards will stop being produced soon,
> and the new flashcards that will come up from now will have a better buit-in quality.


In theory, yeah. But that doesn't mean it'll happen. We can always hope, though.

As for me, I've decided to move away from flash carts and start buying actual games. I'll still keep the one I have on hand for occasional homebrew if I find anything that truly interests me (as well as to "test" DS games I feel uncertain of before buying them), but since I'm going to start seriously collecting Nintendo games from all generations, I might as well start by actually buying DS titles and being an honest man again.


----------



## VMM (Sep 26, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > At least there is a good side in it:
> ...



Games, and eletronic products in general here, in Brazil,
are expensive as hell, that's one of many reasons why brazilians like pirating.

The PS3 was first released for $4000
a 3DS XL is $600.

But nothing compares to car prices.
In USA you can buy a new Honda Civic for $7000.
In Brazil the Honda Civic prices start at $37000


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 26, 2012)

VMM said:


> Games, and eletronic products in general here, in Brazil,
> are expensive as hell, that's one of many reasons why brazilians like pirating.
> 
> The PS3 was first released for $4000
> ...


I feel you. Just to clarify: I wasn't trying to judge pirates or make myself sound better than them with my last post. I was just saying it's something that I don't think is really worth it anymore, at least to me.


----------



## VMM (Sep 26, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > Games, and eletronic products in general here, in Brazil,
> ...



Don't worry, I didn't think that way 
The thing is, it's hard to be a young brazilian.
I'm saving money for my first car and a notebook(mine is 7 years old).
I can't spend much money on something not that necessary as games.
I already use only originals on my PS3, but I can't handle more than one system with original games,
and I'll probably won't buy any game for a year.

By all that I said I think you understand my situation,
and why I desperately need a flashcard.
I buy original games from time to time,
but just when I can, and because I feel it's the right think to do


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Sep 26, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I feel you. Just to clarify: I wasn't trying to judge pirates or make myself sound better than them with my last post. I was just saying it's something that I don't think is really worth it anymore, at least to me.



This whole blocking thing got me thinking too, that maybe it isn't worth it playing pirate DS games on a 3ds, getting tired of this cat and mouse game and I actually like downloading some eshop stuff once in a while. But my conclusion was about buying a DS lite in the worst case and be able to run gba games as a plus


----------



## jax604 (Sep 26, 2012)

VMM said:


> xwatchmanx said:
> 
> 
> > VMM said:
> ...



Not sure where you got those numbers from, but a brand new Honda Civic isnt $7000 in the USA, more like $20,000-28,000 USD depending on what trim.....even tho its still cheaper than brazil.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Sep 26, 2012)

RodrigoDavy said:


> This whole blocking thing got me thinking too, that maybe it isn't worth it playing pirate DS games on a 3ds, getting tired of this cat and mouse game and I actually like downloading some eshop stuff once in a while. But my conclusion was about buying a DS lite in the worst case and be able to run gba games as a plus


I briefly considered getting a DSLite after I found out about this for the exact reason you said, But I'd rather keep all my DS/3DS gaming on one machine, and I love my 3DSXL's giant screen. Plus I'm going to grab a backlit GBA SP soon anyway for all 3 Game Boy generations. Debating whether I want to get a flash cart for that one. I'd rather collect the actual games, but even piracy aside, Game Boy generation carts are just so much more bulky and difficult to carry around than DS carts.


----------



## Crimsonclaw111 (Sep 26, 2012)

I wonder how long the R4i Gold has left before (if ever) it is left useless. Supercard at least has it's CPU on board.

Also, as a side question, R4i Gold + EZ Flash 3 in 1 is a viable combination for GBA + 3DS compatibility right?


----------



## retrodoctor (Sep 26, 2012)

Am I the only one who thinks not many new flashcarts will come out of this? It seems like a lot of work to support a now older generation handheld. I understand some people still play their games and love them, but I just don't see companies willing to create entire new hardware for this.


----------



## OrGoN3 (Sep 26, 2012)

Goodbye Action Replay!


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

Crimsonclaw111 said:


> I wonder how long the R4i Gold has left before (if ever) it is left useless. Supercard at least has it's CPU on board.
> 
> Also, as a side question, R4i Gold + EZ Flash 3 in 1 is a viable combination for GBA +_ 3DS _compatibility right?



Before I get down to it, ohmigodI'vetriedtorespondtothis3timesandlostmypostfromcrashesandstuff.

If you have a DS Lite or are considering getting one, yes.  GoddammitIwrotesomuchelsethreetimesalready but my ultimate point was you also gain another advantage over the DStwo if having two consoles isn't an issue: dramatic battery life.  Even a 3DS with Nyko PowerPak+ will get about 2-3 hours less maximum battery life than a DS Lite with a brand new OEM battery from Nintendo's parts shop using an R4i Gold 3DS.  But the difference between the DS Lite with an R4i Gold 3DS (~14:10 with r4idsn.com and ~12:35 with r4ids.cn & a 3DS with a DStwo (5:40 stock and 9:35 with PowerPak+) is huge.  I am going to POST this and edit my comparison data in this time.  My tests were done using Snailface's DS Battery Timer homebrew.



Spoiler: Comparison Data from tests run in July



*DS Lite with brand new OEM replacement battery:*
*15:55 - R4DS - 512MB MicroSD* w/ Wood 1.49 --_Baseline test with the original but non-updateable R4_
*14:10 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD* (www.r4idsn.com) on Chronicles of Narnia firmware / Wood 1.49
*11:45 - AK2i - 512MB MicroSD* _Will not be compatible with 3DS anymore but it'll still work fine on the Lite.. guess I'll leave this data in._
*12:35 - R4i Gold 3DS - (32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC) *(www.r4ids.cn) w/Wood 1.49
*08:30 - DStwo - (4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC)*
*DS Lite, mint condition but several years old, battery still original:*
*13:15 - R4DS - 512MB MicroSD* w/ Wood 1.49 --_Baseline test with the original but non-updateable R4_
*13:15 - R4DS - 512MB MicroSD* w/Wood 1.50 --_Baseline test with the original but non-updateable R4 done to verify_
*12:05 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD* (www.r4idsn.com) Wood 1.49
*07:35 - DStwo - 4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC*
_(I don't have results for the r4ids.cn cart on this one)_


*1-year old 3DS with (also 1-year old) Nyko PowerPak Plus *(Wireless off, minimum brightness, power-saving On, sound off)
*09:35 - DStwo - 4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC*
*11:15 - AK2i - 8GB Class 6 MicroSDHC* _Will not be compatible anymore._
*11:55 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD* (www.r4idsn.com) Wood 1.49
*12:25 - R4i Gold 3DS - 32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC *(www.r4ids.cn) Wood 1.49
_(I think having a higher speed class rating on the MicroSDHC may be a significant benefit, since the device theoretically spends less time doing its reads/writes.. The variations between battery life of the R4 Clones I tested are rather strange.)_


*1-year old 3DS with stock battery: *(Wireless off, minimum brightness, power-saving On, sound off)
*07:00 - R43D - 2GB MicroSD* (www.r4idsn.com) Wood 1.49
*05:40 - DStwo - 4GB Class 4 MicroSDHC*
*07:30 - R4i Gold 3DS - 32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC* (www.r4ids.cn) Wood 1.49






For what it's worth I got a very nice refurbished DS Lite a few months ago from eBay seller waku7 with a clear case (love it!) and though it came with a great battery I still wanted to test with a brand new battery straight from Nintendo.  The DS Lite from waku7 was only $70 with free shipping and I don't think they'll go very much lower than that considering what GBA SP's still go for.  (Unless you can score a nice used one at a pawn shop of course!) The 3-in-1 on the other hand still runs around $20-25 I think, and you'll have to get a harder to find version if you want it to fit in a GBA SP after loading games one at a time to its NAND)



I am thinking of getting a K1 GBA (http://www.k1gbasp.c...nsole-c-28.html) but I will wait and see what people say about battery life even if it costs me more in the end.

Hopefully final edit: I plan to test DStwo's battery life on my 3DS XL & will do the same when the two Officially Authorized, Wood Compatible R4i Gold 3DS carts release their updates.  I no longer own the regular 3DS systems though.


----------



## mrreow (Sep 26, 2012)

Sad but possibly happy news in the end.  It sucks that flash cards will be on their way out but that only means that the system will be more enticing for those who wish to crack it.  And if it gets cracked that means CFW!

Probably still a year or more away but I can dream right?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 26, 2012)

It's still not 100% certain that this will block all flashcarts other than the DSTwo and a certain R4 - people are forgetting that flashcarts contain a small and slow, albeit programmable microchip. It's entirely possible that teams which do support their carts with internal firmware updates will be able to circumvent this check by feeding the 3DS false data. It's a crude solution, but it's just as possible as it was for the DSTwo - its CPU is far superior to a microcontroller, but a microcontroller can still do the same job. That said, it would require a complete re-write of the firmware, not just a header swap which was the usual routine until now.


----------



## McHaggis (Sep 26, 2012)

Rydian said:


> McHaggis said:
> 
> 
> > It makes you wonder if Nintendo have recently hired an expert that came up with the idea, or were tipped off.  I suspect that they could also block the remaining class2 flash cards permanently by finding other unique hardware differences.  Take the DSTWO, for instance, which has a built-in CPU.  If DS homebrew can detect and take advantage of this additional CPU, what's stopping Nintendo from running a small amount of code that does the same when a card is inserted?
> ...



I thought that DSTwo homebrew utilized both the DS's ARM CPUs and the MIPS CPU.  If what you're saying is true, the cart boots with an ARM binary but then uses the MIPS solely for running homebrew code afterwards, with the DSTwo feeding the ARM processor?  Admittedly, I haven't researched it at all because I don't have a DSTwo.


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> It's still not 100% certain that this will block all flashcarts other than the DSTwo and a certain R4 - people are forgetting that flashcarts contain a small and slow, albeit programmable microchip. It's entirely possible that teams which do support their carts with internal firmware updates will be able to circumvent this check by feeding the 3DS false data. It's a crude solution, but it's just as possible as it was for the DSTwo - its CPU is far superior to a microcontroller, but a microcontroller can still do the same job. That said, it would require a complete re-write of the firmware, not just a header swap which was the usual routine until now.


Well, Rydian posted a list of "Class 2" carts but aside from the DStwo and the two R4s that have released video proof of their progress in developing a working update, those Class 2 carts are mostly dead teams* that may not really jump at the chance to invest the time needed to resume competition with Supercard and Wood Compatible R4s for the 3DS in the specifically-3DS-compatible flashcart market.



Rydian said:


> RupeeClock said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a little confused as to what makes the DSTwo and R4i Gold capable of circumventing this block that other flashcarts apparently cannot, like the Acekard 2i.
> ...


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 26, 2012)

exangel said:


> Rydian said:
> 
> 
> > RupeeClock said:
> ...



Well it is very likely to be true

It would be good if we could get a complete list of all class 1 & 2
The main shame is the class 3 could most likely work if there was a DSi and a DS header update


----------



## Alanturing (Sep 26, 2012)

has the acekard team made a announcement on this ?
yes the r4i gold is different hardware but it at least the same age as acekard 8181
as for the dstwo timing maybe the only difference for responses if were detectable.

maybe a search for new bugs to exploit is need


----------



## ferret7463 (Sep 26, 2012)

up until Nintendo did this little "update", I've been fine with the SNES and GBA Emu abilities (Energy Blazer and WOZZ is fun as hell  ) of the DS2. Seeing that Nintendo is now on the "War Path" against flash cards, I hope that the Hackers speed up their attempts to bypass this "It's Still Our product" security.


----------



## machmandp (Sep 26, 2012)

r4i-sdhc.com have a statement on their site that their card can support the new update 
they have put up a video and will release the update later


----------



## Rydian (Sep 26, 2012)

retrodoctor said:


> Am I the only one who thinks not many new flashcarts will come out of this? It seems like a lot of work to support a now older generation handheld. I understand some people still play their games and love them, but I just don't see companies willing to create entire new hardware for this.


I agree with this, in fact we've even seen current carts starting to slow support or just not update anymore.
http://gbatemp.net/t290097-which-flash-cart-should-i-get
Check out how small the list has gotten nowadays.. EZ-Flash Vi, iEvo/Evo, and more are missing.  Unless, as Exangel posted, these teams with class2 carts jump at the chance to be viable again...

And before anybody asks why I'm not taking the "blocked" carts off the list... this news is not confirmed yet.  We have one statement from one team, and I pulled some relevant info from another team.  _The only statement saying that the entirety of class-1 carts will forever be blocked is from me, and it's a theory based on the info from multiple separate sources_.  It's entirely possible the supercard team is wrong or jumped the gun with one of their dissections of the update, and/or that my theory is connecting the wrong info together.

Until then, as long as people Just Don't Fucking Update™, we can safely wait and see.  Unless you were a dumbass and updated your 3DS already (in which case it's Your Own Damn Fault™) you can just sit around and wait to see if class1 carts can update or not.  If they can, bam, it's proven by the existence of an update, and you can use it.  If not, _then_ you could go out and get another cart.



Alanturing said:


> has the acekard team made a announcement on this ?
> yes the r4i gold is different hardware but it at least the same age as acekard 8181


Actually the R4i Gold models that were release around the AK2i _might be_ class1 as well, it's the later 3DS-branded models that seem to be class2 (the site has different update files for both).  I've asked around for people that had an older-model to do some testing for me to see how they behave in booting, but I couldn't find anybody with one.



McHaggis said:


> I thought that DSTwo homebrew utilized both the DS's ARM CPUs and the MIPS CPU.  If what you're saying is true, the cart boots with an ARM binary but then uses the MIPS solely for running homebrew code afterwards, with the DSTwo feeding the ARM processor?  Admittedly, I haven't researched it at all because I don't have a DSTwo.


The DSTwo feeds the ARM data from the MicroSD through itself to the DS unit to run while it feeds itself the MIPS data to run.  As far as I know there's no sort of method for the DSTwo to fetch a MIPS-compiled binary from the DS unit, as that's normally never going to happen.  Even in cases where the DS does command data to be fed right to the cart (via the ARM7 binary commanding a save), the cart takes care of that, as can be seen from the pokemon carts with IR (as they have an extra control chip to switch a pin used between IR and save data), and as can be seen from flash carts, who get the "save this shit" command from the DS and instead do their own thing to record the data on the MicroSD.


----------



## jalaneme (Sep 26, 2012)

OrGoN3 said:


> Goodbye Action Replay!



I emailed datel regrading this firmware update but who knows if they will reply or release a update to resolve this problem, stupid fking nintendo, they really annoy me sometimes and this is why I hate current gen gaming, update firmware and patches, all current game consoles do it and you can't get away from it, especially game installs when you want to play a quick game of say for example ridge racer, you are first confronted with a 20 minute game install then a 1000gb patch (don't quote me on this part, I was being sarcastic) and you sit there and wondered why you bothered in the first place and just get out the ps1 disc and play that instead.

The moral of the story is, no matter how new and current your consoles are we are always going to get fed up of it and go back to older stuff time and time again...


----------



## tranfeer (Sep 26, 2012)

Crimsonclaw111 said:


> I wonder how long the R4i Gold has left before (if ever) it is left useless. Supercard at least has it's CPU on board.
> 
> Also, as a side question, R4i Gold + EZ Flash 3 in 1 is a viable combination for GBA + 3DS compatibility right?


Do not worry about r4i gold 3ds(www.r4ids.cn). It may be one year , two year or more,  .
In a word, it will survive to the end of flashcards which can support ds roms on 3DS.
Besides, r4i gold 3ds has also a built-in cpu in the main controller.


----------



## ChaosHydrA (Sep 26, 2012)

Well from what I've been reading it's that the acekard2i is sort of obsolete now 

I'm just wondering is there a way to get to 4.3 via a certain game? or does it not matter since you wont be able to use the shop and its other functions with atleast 4.4.0-10 at this point?. I still have the default 3DXL firmware at 3.0.6 something and managed to get the acekard2i to run DS games but I have 7 3DS games on my shelf I sorta fear to put in at this point. Is the Acekard2i 4.2 firmware enough to run Mario 3D Land or Kid Icarus for example?. I doubt I can go out and buy any of the new games like the new mario/KH3D though ?


----------



## boombox (Sep 26, 2012)

That's a shame, I'm glad I have a Supercard DSTWO..as I've updated >____<
But it auto-updated for some reason?


----------



## Technicmaster0 (Sep 26, 2012)

Seems like the r4i team from r4idsn.com released an update for the 4.4.0-10: http://r4idsn.com/news.asp. It supports wood as well as the r4ids.cn.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 26, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> OrGoN3 said:
> 
> 
> > Goodbye Action Replay!
> ...



Yes indeed- how dare Nintendo block unlicensed hardware that troubles a feature they offer.


----------



## Alanturing (Sep 26, 2012)

right so older acekard actel asic kaput newer chip on board (black splodge) unknown


----------



## GamerzHell9137 (Sep 26, 2012)

Ohh gosh...
The article from DSTWO site frighten me.
I really thought that most of the flashcards are dead now but I don't think so right now.
There are 3 flashcards that works fine on the new firmware.
Its just like all others updates.
Nothing MAJOR that can't be fixed with software update of flashcards.
Just wait for update from your card.

Nothing uncrackable.


----------



## tranfeer (Sep 26, 2012)

r4i gold 3ds(www.r4ids.cn) has also released 3DS 4.4.0-10 patch on the official website.
If you want to know more, just visit the official website.


----------



## codezer0 (Sep 26, 2012)

Part of me is particularly happy that I chose the DStwo compared to the iEvo... especially since the Acekard team basically said "screw you" to all of us HW44 AK2i users.

That said, I would hope this development spurns some teams to band together for a proper CFW for the 3DS (and DSi's for that matter).


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Sep 26, 2012)

GamerzHell9137 said:


> Ohh gosh...
> The article from DSTWO site frighten me.
> I really thought that most of the flashcards are dead now but I don't think so right now.
> There are 3 flashcards that works fine on the new firmware.
> ...



Problem is that this 3 working carts are problably the only ones that will work after this firmware update. Those 3 could only use a software update because their hardware allowed them too, the other carts doesn't have a hardware that allow them to update in a way they'll work on this firmware, so they are permanently blocked.

EDIT: To give a better explanation, there are differences in the hardware of many flashcarts, for some reason those 3 decided to use a desing where they have a rewritable Save IC, any cart that doesn't have that can't do any software update at all to work this firmware.


----------



## gamefan5 (Sep 26, 2012)

RodrigoDavy said:


> GamerzHell9137 said:
> 
> 
> > Ohh gosh...
> ...


So in other words, @[member='GamerzHell9137'], the other flashcarts are *dead*, as in you cannot bring them back to life using Dragonballz. XD


----------



## dragonmaster (Sep 26, 2012)

gamefan5 said:


> RodrigoDavy said:
> 
> 
> > GamerzHell9137 said:
> ...


nop too much negative energy will cause another db gt mayhem xexe


----------



## GamerzHell9137 (Sep 26, 2012)

RodrigoDavy said:


> GamerzHell9137 said:
> 
> 
> > Ohh gosh...
> ...



Mother of God

I am doomed


----------



## kisamesama (Sep 26, 2012)

I have accidentally choose firmware update the first time I got my 3ds xl(one month) ago.. it said it was going to download it next time I am connected to internet... I have not connected to internet since then waiting for my r4i flashcard to arrive.. was planning to re-enable wifi once I get my flashcard.. will it automatically download the latest firmware? how can I stop it now!??


----

Hmm that's rather confusing... the thread says "Almost All Flash Kits Blocked Permanently" but I can see in some other threads... r4i gold card supports the latest firmware? what's true, what's false?


----------



## bobbyllama (Sep 26, 2012)

Technicmaster0 said:


> Seems like the r4i team from r4idsn.com released an update for the 4.4.0-10: http://r4idsn.com/news.asp. It supports wood as well as the r4ids.cn.



I can confirm that this update changed the R4i DSN 3DS from being recognized as Rafa Nadal Tennis to a Metroid Prime Demo cart. Can not yet speak to it's success with 4.4.0-10 as my 3DS' battery died shortly after I ran the card's FW update.

Edit: Clarified flashcart build.


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

kisamesama said:


> Hmm that's rather confusing... the thread says "Almost All Flash Kits Blocked Permanently" but I can see in some other threads... r4i gold card supports the latest firmware? what's true, what's false?



I don't see why people have such a hard time with the meaning of "Almost" -.-




bobbyllama said:


> Technicmaster0 said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like the r4i team from r4idsn.com released an update for the 4.4.0-10: http://r4idsn.com/news.asp. It supports wood as well as the r4ids.cn.
> ...


Please also describe the revision number located on the bottom of your flashcart just above the farthest right "tooth" printed in white on the PCB -- this is an important factor that we're trying to gather data on in the Firmware Update Compilation thread.
http://gbatemp.net/topic/302773-firmware-update-compilation-thread-list-of-flashcards-working-on-3ds/page__fromsearch__1
I have a Revision 8 card from r4idsn.com that has the Rafa Nadal Tennis header and does not accept the update.


----------



## kisamesama (Sep 26, 2012)

exangel said:


> kisamesama said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm that's rather confusing... the thread says "Almost All Flash Kits Blocked Permanently" but I can see in some other threads... r4i gold card supports the latest firmware? what's true, what's false?
> ...



the way the thread starter wrote the first post rather scared/panicked me LOL... he was like saying all current gen flashcards were doomed...

"From the current market, most of the cards are without save IC, so be blocked now. Therefore, this is the hardware defect, software can not solve."..that part scared me lol... fortunately r4i is still good )


----------



## Rydian (Sep 26, 2012)

EDIT: Ninja'd by exangel again.

EDIT2: Also, the whole "IC" bit needs to be dropped, that's not the proper language.  All carts use an IC.  It's like saying the original R4 doesn't have a "bootloader".  It does, it just can't be modified.


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

Rydian said:


> EDIT: Ninja'd by exangel again.
> 
> EDIT2: Also, the whole "IC" bit needs to be dropped, that's not the proper language.  All carts use an IC.  It's like saying the original R4 doesn't have a "bootloader".  It does, it just can't be modified.


I honestly think you should submit a clarified statement for the original post and for Pong20302000 to use in the Firmware Update Compilation thread.  You English better.

Edit: I assume Another World would appreciate a more concise and accurate addendum enough to modify it..


----------



## bobbyllama (Sep 26, 2012)

exangel said:


> kisamesama said:
> 
> 
> > hmm that's rather confusing... the thread says "Almost All Flash Kits Blocked Permanently" but i can see in some other threads... r4i gold card supports the latest firmware? what's true, what's false?
> ...



Hi there. My card has a 'C' in the location you described. Hope this helps!


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

bobbyllama said:


> Hi there. My card has a 'C' in the location you described. Hope this helps!



Thanks, the "C" revision (most recent) has already been confirmed on both R4iDSN.com and R4iDS.cn -- at this point it appears that anyone with Revision 9, A, B, or C would be able to use the current updates that were released today and we have confirmed that revision 8 from both makers does not accept the update.  No one has confirmed success earlier than revision 8 either.


----------



## Jayro (Sep 26, 2012)

I have successfully used my DSi-XL with the NDSi file (Not the NDSL file) to update my R4i Gold 3DS card to the new update: http://www.r4ids.cn/news.htm
I have heard that people can use their *v4.3.0-10* 3DS to perform the update with the NDSi file as well, THEN update to the system to *v4.4.0-10.*


*I**con before:* Chronicles of Narnia - Prince Caspian

*Icon after:* Metroid Prime - Hunters (DEMO)


----------



## Mbmax (Sep 26, 2012)

I highly doubt the ez5i is permanently blocked. The FPGA code of this flashcart is updatable by the user with a firmware update.


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

Mbmax said:


> I highly doubt the ez5i is permanently blocked. The FPGA code of this flashcart is updatable by the user with a firmware update.


I think it would be nice to see them become relevant again.  It's one I would buy if they did.  (Speaking as a collector.)
But the team has not kept it up to date for the 3DS since april/may.. so "permanently blocked" is a matter of whether or not the team is going to take the opportunity to re-launch their presence and release an update.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 26, 2012)

Regardless of whether a cart is in "Class 1" or higher (weird way to categorize it), the firmware on the microcontroller can still be improved to fake the save file size - this can be circumvented, it'll just take much more time than the usual header replacement.


----------



## exangel (Sep 26, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Regardless of whether a cart is in "Class 1" or higher (weird way to categorize it), the firmware on the microcontroller can still be improved to fake the save file size - this can be circumvented, it'll just take much more time than the usual header replacement.


I thought what you describe falls under the category of having to send the flashcart back to the factory.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 26, 2012)

exangel said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless of whether a cart is in "Class 1" or higher (weird way to categorize it), the firmware on the microcontroller can still be improved to fake the save file size - this can be circumvented, it'll just take much more time than the usual header replacement.
> ...


Not necessarily. The firmware updates available for example for AK2i models work directly from RAM - the firmware of the flashcart is disabled during the update procedure. It can be overwritten, and I'm sure that such a fail-safe mode was included when designing them.


----------



## Mbmax (Sep 26, 2012)

exangel said:


> Mbmax said:
> 
> 
> > I highly doubt the ez5i is permanently blocked. The FPGA code of this flashcart is updatable by the user with a firmware update.
> ...


That's the point !


----------



## syrusch (Sep 26, 2012)

R4ids.cn REV6 not working... I will mail them to have a new one for free if they can't provide a new update


----------



## shoyrumaster11 (Sep 26, 2012)

syrusch said:


> R4ids.cn REV6 not working... I will mail them to have a new one for free if they can't provide a new update



I just went to that website you talked about and they said this:



			
				R4iDS.cn said:
			
		

> [Great news] R4i Gold 3DS Supports the 3DS V4.4.0-10 successfully! The update patch is released...



I think you should update your card again and confirm that it's working on your updated 3DS.


----------



## exangel (Sep 27, 2012)

shoyrumaster11 said:


> I think you should update your card again and confirm that it's working on your updated 3DS.



The website isn't as accurate as it should be.  There are 12 revisions of this flashcart and *only the most recent four revisions are compatible with that update*.  Revision 6 is too old to function with today's update.

Edit: The first 5 revisions were not marketed as 3DS compatible though.

http://imageshack.us/a/img834/6056/r4igoldfinal.png

http://gbatemp.net/topic/302773-firmware-update-compilation-thread-list-of-flashcards-working-on-3ds/


----------



## shoyrumaster11 (Sep 27, 2012)

exangel said:


> shoyrumaster11 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you should update your card again and confirm that it's working on your updated 3DS.
> ...



Well I don't own the card myself but, I used to have an interest in flashcards. so yeah! I'm just going with all the assumptions I can think of. Unfortunately, I may need to do more research, Nintendo picked the perfect time for me to start doing flashcard reviews.


----------



## funem (Sep 27, 2012)

I asked this on the other thread about the carts being blocked........

"Just out of interest do real games like Electroplankton that have no onboard save work ? There were not many games released like this but early on there were a few. Just interested to see if they blocked one of their own games"

Anyone have the game to try it with ?


----------



## VMM (Sep 27, 2012)

funem said:


> I asked this on the other thread about the carts being blocked........
> 
> "Just out of interest do real games like Electroplankton that have no onboard save work ? There were not many games released like this but early on there were a few. Just interested to see if they blocked one of their own games"
> 
> Anyone have the game to try it with ?



Probably.
If I'm not mistaken, Metroid  demo didn't have too,
and is used now as the bootloader of R4i Gold


----------



## MoshMarioMaldona (Sep 27, 2012)

someone can pass the standard edition v1.9 firmware download for r4i gold plus


----------



## RchUncleSkeleton (Sep 27, 2012)

I never understood the reason for using a flash card on a 3ds unless you don't own a DS lite or phat, seeing as they can't play any 3DS specific software. I'll keep using my m3 real and my DS lite for DS games and ill be perfectly happy about it.


----------



## Rydian (Sep 27, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Not necessarily. The firmware updates available for example for AK2i models work directly from RAM - the firmware of the flashcart is disabled during the update procedure. It can be overwritten, and I'm sure that such a fail-safe mode was included when designing them.


Can't overwrite protected ROM.  In an FPGA it's possible to lock certain sections out and then you need the original key to modify it at all (including reading decrypted) from what I've read, and only the producing factory has the key.  That's why one or two teams have mentioned needing to send affected flash carts back to the factory.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 27, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Not necessarily. The firmware updates available for example for AK2i models work directly from RAM - the firmware of the flashcart is disabled during the update procedure. It can be overwritten, and I'm sure that such a fail-safe mode was included when designing them.
> ...


Provided said factory key is provided in the update in an encrypted form, you don't. _Unless _said portion of memory is only accessible by tagging onto pins on the board. Time will tell, I'd rather wait for an official statement.


----------



## nl255 (Sep 27, 2012)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> I never understood the reason for using a flash card on a 3ds unless you don't own a DS lite or phat, seeing as they can't play any 3DS specific software. I'll keep using my m3 real and my DS lite for DS games and ill be perfectly happy about it.



How about so you don't have to carry around two *DS systems?


----------



## OuahOuah (Sep 27, 2012)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> I never understood the reason for using a flash card on a 3ds unless you don't own a DS lite or phat, seeing as they can't play any 3DS specific software. I'll keep using my m3 real and my DS lite for DS games and ill be perfectly happy about it.



I own a DSL with a CycloDS (dead team but still good).
I absolutely want to play new Nintendo games (NSMB2, coming Zelda, Mario Kart 7), not even in 3D (poor feature).

So I bought a DSTwo and I found the 3DS XL very cool even for old games (playing Mario Kart on a big screen is cool for me, not for all)..

So...


----------



## OrGoN3 (Sep 27, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> I emailed datel regrading this firmware update but who knows if they will reply or release a update to resolve this problem, stupid fking nintendo, they really annoy me sometimes and this is why I hate current gen gaming, update firmware and patches, all current game consoles do it and you can't get away from it, especially game installs when you want to play a quick game of say for example ridge racer, you are first confronted with a 20 minute game install then a 1000gb patch (don't quote me on this part, I was being sarcastic) and you sit there and wondered why you bothered in the first place and just get out the ps1 disc and play that instead.
> 
> The moral of the story is, no matter how new and current your consoles are we are always going to get fed up of it and go back to older stuff time and time again...



Unless I'm mistaken, Action Replays do not feature the proper hardware to work on the updated systems. It is not something a that can simply be solved with a firmware update.


----------



## LockeCole_101629 (Sep 27, 2012)

Well instead worrying about flashcart itself I'm more worried about any chance at all to play all those 3DS roms.

20-40$/games is a lot for me right now.
I mean I can afford it, but considering it on portable console, I don't really think it's worth that much; on steam I can get lot's of games for 40$

Also for flashcart itself, considering that NDS is already reach it's life cycle, so I don't really bother, as in it can only play DS roms.

If you really love to play DS Games that much, why not spend less to get any flashcart compatible with DS Lite? It still bullet proof enough (you also don't have to bother with firmware updates).

Even the worst cart out there can still play new released games.


----------



## funem (Sep 27, 2012)

VMM said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > I asked this on the other thread about the carts being blocked........
> ...



I would imagine the bootloader check and the save IC check would be different. Would still like to know if the original Electroplankton cart works with the new firmware. Anyone ?

Edit - Just checked Metroid First Hunt demo and it has a save Electroplankton does not as far as I know


----------



## Arm73 (Sep 27, 2012)

OuahOuah said:


> RchUncleSkeleton said:
> 
> 
> > I never understood the reason for using a flash card on a 3ds unless you don't own a DS lite or phat, seeing as they can't play any 3DS specific software. I'll keep using my m3 real and my DS lite for DS games and ill be perfectly happy about it.
> ...



For this reason I bought a DSiXL and never updated it, old games really look good on it.
The fact that I managed to sudokuhex it within minutes that the exploit was released, it's a big plus, at least I can play some emulators ( like NesDS ) with improved speed directly off the SD card, which makes my DSiXL much more worth then a 3DS or even 3DSXL at this point.

If I'll ever get a 3DS ( and I might do that when a Mario & Luigi game comes out or a new 2D Castlevania or Metroid ) it'll be strictly to play 3DS games, I wouldn't bother for a DS only mode flashcart at all, so this news kind of left me unaffected.


----------



## exangel (Sep 27, 2012)

Arm73 said:


> For this reason I bought a DSiXL and never updated it, old games really look good on it.
> The fact that I managed to sudokuhex it within minutes that the exploit was released, it's a big plus, at least I can play some emulators ( like NesDS ) with improved speed directly off the SD card, which makes my DSiXL much more worth then a 3DS or even 3DSXL at this point.
> 
> If I'll ever get a 3DS ( and I might do that when a Mario & Luigi game comes out or a new 2D Castlevania or Metroid ) it'll be strictly to play 3DS games, I wouldn't bother for a DS only mode flashcart at all, so this news kind of left me unaffected.


Ooh, I envy you.  I got a DSi XL on release day and wasn't aware of SudokuHax until a couple months later (too late).
I'm definitely never selling my DSi XL, I almost considered it a week before the new 3DS firmware update.  I do like for my cart(s) to be compatible with my 3DS XL if I want to go out because keeping two DS's with me for the bus just seems like too big a risk.  (Also, bulky.  I am a lady and I don't like having to carry a purse that causes sustained use cramps.)
But I don't like the way the artificial upscaling looks on many games with the 3DS or the 3DS XL so I definitely prefer DSi XL for DS games at home.


----------



## jalaneme (Sep 27, 2012)

OrGoN3 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, Action Replays do not feature the proper hardware to work on the updated systems. It is not something a that can simply be solved with a firmware update.



That is disappointing to hear, so datel will release yet another hardware revision that I would have to pay for again. No way, I already have 2 versions of the action replay ds/dsi and I am not buying another; their resale value is 0 so I am stuck with them once they are made useless by nintendo. The only thing I can do is use the dsi action replay on my dsi xl but that would mean more inconvenience for me if I want to mess around with a ds game and cheats. Not that I have a choice in the matter thanks to nintendo, the sooner we gain back control of OUR hardware thanks to hackers, the better, and that region lock removal is long overdue.



exangel said:


> Ooh, I envy you.  I got a DSi XL on release day and wasn't aware of SudokuHax until a couple months later (too late).
> I'm definitely never selling my DSi XL, I almost considered it a week before the new 3DS firmware update.  I do like for my cart(s) to be compatible with my 3DS XL if I want to go out because keeping two DS's with me for the bus just seems like too big a risk.  (Also, bulky.  I am a lady and I don't like having to carry a purse that causes sustained use cramps.)
> But I don't like the way the artificial upscaling looks on many games with the 3DS or the 3DS XL so I definitely prefer DSi XL for DS games at home.



I'm in the same boat, my travel case could fit a 3ds and my dsi xl together but the risk of my bag being snatched off me and loosing TWO consoles instead of one is not a risk I want to take, you can blame yet again nintendo for that predicament, we wouldn't have that problem and everything would work on one console, but nope that is not the way its supposed to be.

I'm a lady too but I find it more practical to carry a rucksack with me than a handbag as you can carry more stuff  I hate the way ds games looks on the 3ds but it's about convenience for me more than anything having everything I need one one console instead of many.


----------



## thaddius (Sep 27, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> tom10122 said:
> 
> 
> > Well that sucks, now we need to wait for a new card and buy that correct? It can't be fixed with software but with new hardware/ BIOS in a sense(FPGA Program not firmware)
> ...


While a CFW would be grand, there's no money in it for Chinese cottage industries, so I imagine flashcarts will come first. I hope I'm wrong though.


----------



## BORTZ (Sep 27, 2012)

thaddius said:


> BortzANATOR said:
> 
> 
> > tom10122 said:
> ...


I really doubt that. Who's gonna buy flash carts with PayPal sticking their dicks in our business?


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 27, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> I really doubt that. Who's gonna buy flash carts with PayPal sticking their dicks in our business?



Maybe it is my buying stuff online for years and maybe it is, as has been noted in the past, my generally not paying attention to the world at large but is paypal not being a viable means of payment that much of a troubling thing?

On a different matter jalaneme I fear you fundamentally misunderstand the device developer/manufacturer/maintainer - consumer relationship. As for cheating if only there were ways to get saves off games and devices that could run modified versions of those games.


----------



## OuahOuah (Sep 27, 2012)

Mmmm Papypal is not a problem.

I bought my DSTWo from Zhuzhuchina, using Papyal and you can see thaht I'm in France...

The process is no more automated of course, you must send an email then wait for the answer with the real paypal address then pay then wait for, etc...
But it works.

Papypal sux but less than Western Union I think


----------



## Another World (Sep 27, 2012)

1st post updated with an image for supported r4i gold/r4idsn flash kits.

-another world


----------



## exangel (Sep 27, 2012)

Another World said:


> 1st post updated with an image for supported r4i gold/r4idsn flash kits.
> 
> -another world


The image itself doesn't actually say carts 9, A, B, and C are the only ones currently supported though.  Might want to make a note of that.  Cyan also posted an updated image @ http://gbatemp.net/topic/302773-firmware-update-compilation-thread-list-of-flashcards-working-on-3ds/page__view__findpost__p__4403590


----------



## BORTZ (Sep 27, 2012)

All I know is that have had a run around with paypal when ordering from other countries, as well as I know they have been shutting down flash cart suppliers.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 28, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> All I know is that have had a run around with paypal when ordering from other countries, as well as I know they have been shutting down flash cart suppliers.



zhuzhuchina got fucked in the ass by paypal after they refused to support them..if you even look on the website it says, that was one of the reasons why were thinking about closing..but haven't yet...

the government is forcing paypal / making it worth their while, to refuse to work with these "terrorists"



exangel said:


> Another World said:
> 
> 
> > 1st post updated with an image for supported r4i gold/r4idsn flash kits.
> ...



oh...I second that post...but...why is 1-3 not there?...

pretty much...if your R4i has an ACTEL chip in it..you're fucked..right?


OuahOuah said:


> Mmmm Papypal is not a problem.
> 
> I bought my DSTWo from Zhuzhuchina, using Papyal and you can see thaht I'm in France...
> 
> ...



so I send an email to "pigxxxxxxxx.com" containing what?..there is a order number...and something is said about some "moneybookers" bullshit. but if I have to go through that...i'll just pay the marked up rate at RHS...zhuzhuchina is the cheapest one though, and I'd prefer I go there..but i'm confused how to purchase items there.


----------



## thaddius (Sep 28, 2012)

Paypal Shmaypal. If people want flashcarts (which they will if that's the only way to play roms on a 3DS), they're find ways to get them/other methods to pay for them.


----------



## jimmyemunoz (Sep 28, 2012)

If PayPal wanted the blueprints to which websites are ducking them by using a post-sale email system, all they need to do is come to gbatemp. Honestly people, PM's about this stuff...don't ruin it for other people....and most importantly, use your brain. If you think I'm being unrationale, do this, email your seller and ask them if it's okay if you talk about their post-sale messaging system, to make a PayPal payment, on a popular online website.


----------



## Sc4rFac3d (Sep 28, 2012)

r4i-sdhc.com is saying an update is coming? How come it's not listed as upgradeable?


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Sep 28, 2012)

Sc4rFac3d said:


> r4i-sdhc.com is saying an update is coming? How come it's not listed as upgradeable?



A bunch of websites have also said they would have an "upgrade" to support 3ds game roms. We all know that never happened. Better to wait until there actually is something.


----------



## Rydian (Sep 28, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> A bunch of websites have also said they would have an "upgrade" to support 3ds game roms.


That reminds me, I wonder where all the people who said they believed the teams and bought one of those carts (there were like five of them) went to... they were pretty vocal about standing up for it until enough time passed that they realized it was bullshit.


----------



## caribou007 (Sep 28, 2012)

This is great news for flashcart makers.  Everyone now has to buy new flashcarts.  Flashcart makers will make huge profits, ensuring the vitality of the flashcart and hacking hardware makers for a long time to come.


----------



## OrGoN3 (Sep 28, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> That is disappointing to hear, so datel will release yet another hardware revision that I would have to pay for again. No way, I already have 2 versions of the action replay ds/dsi and I am not buying another; their resale value is 0 so I am stuck with them once they are made useless by nintendo. The only thing I can do is use the dsi action replay on my dsi xl but that would mean more inconvenience for me if I want to mess around with a ds game and cheats. Not that I have a choice in the matter thanks to nintendo, the sooner we gain back control of OUR hardware thanks to hackers, the better, and that region lock removal is long overdue.



I still do not see how you are mad at Nintendo for blocking third party, unlicensed add-ons. They blocked illegal flashcarts, and ONE actual peripheral (that refuses to pay Nintendo a licensing fee) that is sold in stores. All Datel has to do is license their product with Nintendo. They probably refuse to pay the licensing fee, so you no longer get to use it. Nintendo waited years before implementing this method. Most likely on purpose. A bit funny how it gets updated close to the release of Pokemon Black/White 2.

This is one of the many reasons I kept my DSLite (that and for GBA). This is just like how Playstation keeps on changing their passphrases for PSN so that the hackers do not get on with modded consoles. If you want to use Nintendo's services (which include firmware and OS updates) then you have to follow Nintendo's rules. It could not be any simpler. Next time, don't blindly update.


----------



## shoyrumaster11 (Sep 28, 2012)

OrGoN3 said:


> jalaneme said:
> 
> 
> > That is disappointing to hear, so datel will release yet another hardware revision that I would have to pay for again. No way, I already have 2 versions of the action replay ds/dsi and I am not buying another; their resale value is 0 so I am stuck with them once they are made useless by nintendo. The only thing I can do is use the dsi action replay on my dsi xl but that would mean more inconvenience for me if I want to mess around with a ds game and cheats. Not that I have a choice in the matter thanks to nintendo, the sooner we gain back control of OUR hardware thanks to hackers, the better, and that region lock removal is long overdue.
> ...



Yeah! I promised myself that I wouldn't update my 3DS until my SuperCard is in the mail and until the SC team has an update. I really do wonder why no one uses their common sense anymore.


----------



## porkiewpyne (Sep 28, 2012)

jimmyemunoz said:


> If PayPal wanted the blueprints to which websites are ducking them by using a post-sale email system, all they need to do is come to gbatemp. Honestly people, PM's about this stuff...don't ruin it for other people....and most importantly, use your brain. If you think I'm being irrational, do this, email your seller and ask them if it's okay if you talk about their post-sale messaging system, to make a PayPal payment, on a popular online website.



I second this motion.



caribou007 said:


> This is great news for flashcart makers.  Everyone now has to buy new flashcarts.  Flashcart makers will make huge profits, ensuring the vitality of the flashcart and hacking hardware makers for a long time to come.


Technically only 3 of them (so far) benefit so to speak. Of course that assumes that people will update. And that people will want to continue using flashcarts. Personally, I am waiting for some more progress in terms of function first before getting yet another flashcart.


----------



## guerrierodipace (Sep 28, 2012)

Sc4rFac3d said:


> r4i-sdhc.com is saying an update is coming? How come it's not listed as upgradeable?



no they will release a new card....



> The new R4i-sdhc 3DS card which can support N3DS *V4.4.0-10* will be launched soon, please pay attention! *View video* [2012-09-26]


----------



## machmandp (Sep 28, 2012)

guerrierodipace said:


> Sc4rFac3d said:
> 
> 
> > r4i-sdhc.com is saying an update is coming? How come it's not listed as upgradeable?
> ...



As if i will be buying this card again
the website stated the other day that they had a patch and will release the upgrade and then they changed it to a new card , so it seems to me as if they smell the opportunity to make more money.

i would advise anyone to avoid the r4-3DS card as they will probably do it again 


so for me its going to have to be the DStwo now


----------



## Derek D (Sep 28, 2012)

now dstwo, r4i gold 3ds have released the patch. and the r4i sdhc will do it soon.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Sep 28, 2012)

C-Kronos said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo have done a great job on the whole 3ds security, this why I think the 3ds will never be hacked.
> ...



360 being better security than Sony is debatable considering so many accounts are hacked like candy and sold on the internet....in terms of online.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 28, 2012)

Derek D said:


> now dstwo, r4i gold 3ds have released the patch. and the r4i sdhc will do it soon.



r4i-sdhc have said they cannot release a patch
it is a new card they are releasing instead


----------



## machmandp (Sep 28, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> Derek D said:
> 
> 
> > now dstwo, r4i gold 3ds have released the patch. and the r4i sdhc will do it soon.
> ...




but the other day they said they had a patch and would release it , showing the video to prove it and then the site was changed to say they would release a new card 
so i think they saw the opportunity to just release a new card hoping we will buy it


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 28, 2012)

machmandp said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > Derek D said:
> ...



no some teams didnt realize that the update did more than just update the header check list
wasnt until the researched and found they couldn't fix with a patch


----------



## machmandp (Sep 28, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> machmandp said:
> 
> 
> > Pong20302000 said:
> ...



Believe me i do understand that but when they announced it they put the video up to prove it, now the video is the same but the wording has changed for the new card.
so i still think they are pulling a fast one on us


----------



## Pong20302000 (Sep 28, 2012)

machmandp said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > machmandp said:
> ...



i know that it can look like this
but there not much information on the update
the update could of made it so that it would load once with the new header, then the 3ds checks the IC after it has loaded
then blocks the header on the next load up as it detected it was a flashcard

it does seem a little dodgy tho, its all about money these days tho


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Sep 28, 2012)

machmandp said:


> Believe me i do understand that but when they announced it they put the video up to prove it, now the video is the same but the wording has changed for the new card.
> so i still think they are pulling a fast one on us





Pong20302000 said:


> i know that it can look like this
> but there not much information on the update
> the update could of made it so that it would load once with the new header, then the 3ds checks the IC after it has loaded
> then blocks the header on the next load up as it detected it was a flashcard
> ...




The video is a fake, just watched it. There's an edition on the video, he turns off the console before inserting the flashcard and in the next moment it is already on without him pressing the power button. You can see that between 0:30 and 0:32 on the video. This is a sad attitude in my opinion, but it at least the new flashcard is coming.


----------



## OuahOuah (Sep 28, 2012)

Wether they decide to patch or to sell a new is not your decision.
If DSTwo stop support their card, what will you do ? You complain and want a trial ?

The world is : a team decides, not customers so stop crying...


----------



## machmandp (Sep 28, 2012)

OuahOuah said:


> Wether they decide to patch or to sell a new is not your decision.
> If DSTwo stop support their card, what will you do ? You complain and want a trial ?
> 
> The world is : a team decides, not customers so stop crying...


Well done for missing the point completely

The fact is that they put on their site that they have a patch and posted video proof that it works and now they decide different so they lied
and to take your point that the team not the customer decides then you are correct in a way but doing it like this just makes us customers go elsewhere 
so not a great decision in the end

and as regards to crying , strange i'm sitting here ordering the 3 DStwo cards i need but not crying just annoyed at being lied too


----------



## C-Kronos (Sep 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> C-Kronos said:
> 
> 
> > Valwin said:
> ...



Again, I was referring to the security of the *console*, not the online services.


----------



## ldg1414 (Sep 28, 2012)

Does anyone actually still play on the original ds, you wouldn't have these problems, heck you can probably get an original ds for less than some of the higher end flashcarts these days.


----------



## jalaneme (Sep 28, 2012)

OrGoN3 said:


> I still do not see how you are mad at Nintendo for blocking third party, unlicensed add-ons. They blocked illegal flashcarts, and ONE actual peripheral (that refuses to pay Nintendo a licensing fee) that is sold in stores. All Datel has to do is license their product with Nintendo. They probably refuse to pay the licensing fee, so you no longer get to use it. Nintendo waited years before implementing this method. Most likely on purpose. A bit funny how it gets updated close to the release of Pokemon Black/White 2.
> 
> This is one of the many reasons I kept my DSLite (that and for GBA). This is just like how Playstation keeps on changing their passphrases for PSN so that the hackers do not get on with modded consoles. If you want to use Nintendo's services (which include firmware and OS updates) then you have to follow Nintendo's rules. It could not be any simpler. Next time, don't blindly update.



you know what mate, please don't reply to my posts any more, I will ignore you, I don't have time for bigots replying to me about mindless rubbish, replying to your posts will get nowhere, if you are so against piracy and lick Nintendo ass why are you at gbatemp? go back to gamefaqs or something, I have better things to do than waste my time with idiots like you.

this is my last post to you, please don't quote me or reply you will be ignored.


----------



## nl255 (Sep 28, 2012)

porkiewpyne said:


> caribou007 said:
> 
> 
> > This is great news for flashcart makers.  Everyone now has to buy new flashcarts.  Flashcart makers will make huge profits, ensuring the vitality of the flashcart and hacking hardware makers for a long time to come.
> ...



Or people will just switch to the good old DSTwo which has just about all the functionality (except DSi/3DS mode) you could want and is often updated in less than a day (though this fix was nasty enough to require 3 days).


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 28, 2012)

nl255 said:


> porkiewpyne said:
> 
> 
> > caribou007 said:
> ...


or people don't update their 3ds


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 28, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> OrGoN3 said:
> 
> 
> > I still do not see how you are mad at Nintendo for blocking third party, unlicensed add-ons. They blocked illegal flashcarts, and ONE actual peripheral (that refuses to pay Nintendo a licensing fee) that is sold in stores. All Datel has to do is license their product with Nintendo. They probably refuse to pay the licensing fee, so you no longer get to use it. Nintendo waited years before implementing this method. Most likely on purpose. A bit funny how it gets updated close to the release of Pokemon Black/White 2.
> ...



Although I am not entirely convinced flash carts are illegal and even if Datel wanted one that Nintendo would grant them a license for it (a lack of server side checks means online can be really troubled by these devices) OrGoN3 most definitely has a point and your calling him a bigot and more is entirely unjustifiable. I do not know if you two have a history but even if you did aside from the tiny bit of presumption in the last line there was nothing unwarranted in there on OrGoN3's part.


----------



## my2k2zx2 (Sep 28, 2012)

I just got back my 3DS from a warranty repair.  Yup, they upgraded it to the 4.4.0 firmware.  Guess I'll have to dig out my DS Lite to use my AK2i.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 28, 2012)

my2k2zx2 said:


> I just got back my 3DS from a warranty repair.  Yup, they upgraded it to the 4.4.0 firmware.  Guess I'll have to dig out my DS Lite to use my AK2i.


that sucks I got my 3dsxl back from repair on monday and it still had the previous firmware


----------



## retrodoctor (Sep 28, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> OrGoN3 said:
> 
> 
> > I still do not see how you are mad at Nintendo for blocking third party, unlicensed add-ons. They blocked illegal flashcarts, and ONE actual peripheral (that refuses to pay Nintendo a licensing fee) that is sold in stores. All Datel has to do is license their product with Nintendo. They probably refuse to pay the licensing fee, so you no longer get to use it. Nintendo waited years before implementing this method. Most likely on purpose. A bit funny how it gets updated close to the release of Pokemon Black/White 2.
> ...


Seriously, literally everything about this post comes off as childish and most of it is wrong. You're mad at him foe justifying his point (which is perfectly valid) that nintendo would block 3rd party carts whose main purpose is to run copyrighted games illegally. Also, you call him a bigot for no reason and don't have any justification behind it. I either think you've heard the word and you've tried to convey it as a high ground for your argument, but that's not the way the word is used nor how it's presented. 

It's also highly ironic that you call him an idiot for calmly discussing a point after you've used words incorrectly and got upset that Nintendo would do their job and stop people from running pirated games.


----------



## TonyMontellanico (Sep 29, 2012)

This may be an obvious question, but I would rather be safe than sorry. My 3DS is two updates behind the latest so I can still use my Acekard, I should be okay even if Acekard releases its own updates, right? And it's never auto updated itself to this day.


----------



## godreborn (Sep 29, 2012)

You'll have to update if you want to play online or browse the eshop. There are also some games that have mandatory updates (though not many at this point). However, I'm sure the next big nintendo game will require the latest update.


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Sep 29, 2012)

FAST6191 said:


> Although I am not entirely convinced flash carts are illegal



The news ones that work with DSi and 3DS are illegal because they contain parts of a commercial game inside them in order to work, and I don't mean inside the user's SD card, I mean inside the flashcart itself.

Source: http://hackmii.com/2...oming-in-3-2-1/


----------



## chyyran (Sep 29, 2012)

Good thing I have my DSTWO, although it's kinda sad that my Acekard won't work anymore..

Now to check if my R4iGold will work..

About time Nintendo, about time.

And again, all the more reason to hack the 3DS, even a DS-mode hack.


----------



## Jan1tor (Sep 29, 2012)

I couldn't care less if Nintendo blocks flash carts or not, that's why I kept my DS Lite. If I want homebrew or other I'll just use it. There are no hacks for 3DS games anyway. Everyone knows this when buying a flashcart that it may be blocked by an update so it is a buy or use at your own risk. Not really worth getting upset about Nintendo trying to protect the software line for its hardware.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 29, 2012)

RodrigoDavy said:


> FAST6191 said:
> 
> 
> > Although I am not entirely convinced flash carts are illegal
> ...



I was aware of that but it seemed one of the key outcomes of Sega vs Accolade and a few similar cases was that using part of a would be copyrighted or trademarked work (logos and such) to bypass protection for your device was a legitimate thing. Given, as far as the end user knows, no assets beyond a icon and name are used (arguably exactly what the case above dealt with) and, probably redundant in light of the earlier part of the sentence, you can not play the faked game or otherwise enjoy anything from it then it would possibly fall under the remit of legitimate use. I would agree it is pushing the scope of the ruling somewhat harder than the original one probably envisaged but I would have equally expected to see people in court; Nintendo seems a bit less sue/law happy than some other companies out there but both Datel and Nintendo are no strangers to the courtroom.


----------



## DeShelly (Sep 29, 2012)

i update my 3ds... bb r4 and ez vi flashcards....


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Sep 29, 2012)

FAST6191 said:


> RodrigoDavy said:
> 
> 
> > FAST6191 said:
> ...



Except the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection and access control mechanisims. I think the only reason Nintendo never sued over it is because of their previous losses against game Genie and unliscensed games.


----------



## OuahOuah (Sep 29, 2012)

In france, and other countries as well, selling flashcart is illegal.
Nintendo sued IRL shops and won.

Maybe another trial would change that but for the moment...

And about DMCA... an American law is not a problem for all the world


----------



## mysticwaterfall (Sep 29, 2012)

Never meant to imply it was, I was countering Fasts specific argument.


----------



## Zantheo (Sep 29, 2012)

So, I have to use a DS Lite in order to patch the R4I 3ds Gold (revision c)?
Isn't there a patcher for these things?


----------



## VMM (Sep 29, 2012)

Zantheo said:


> So, I have to use a DS Lite in order to patch the R4I 3ds Gold (revision c)?
> Isn't there a patcher for these things?



Isn't there a .nds for DSi/3DS/3DS XL?


----------



## tranfeer (Sep 29, 2012)

Zantheo said:


> So, I have to use a DS Lite in order to patch the R4I 3ds Gold (revision c)?
> Isn't there a patcher for these things?



You can also update it with a NDSi and a 3DS (XL/LL),whose version is under 4.4.0-10


----------



## BORTZ (Sep 29, 2012)

Does the 3DS update over the air in sleep mode? Or do I have to manually do it? I can't remember.


----------



## cracker (Sep 29, 2012)

Sorry if it has been said before as I couldn't read all 19 pages...

Nintendo is finally forcing people over the barrel just as Sony and Microsoft have done by forcing people to choose either to stay at an old firmware and not allow you onto the shop without it or to upgrade and lose a ton of capabilities. I hope that the people that can't upgrade aren't forced into losing Netflix or online play like those systems did because of this forced upgrade bullshit!


----------



## lismati (Sep 29, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> Does the 3DS update over the air in sleep mode? Or do I have to manually do it? I can't remember.


If you have spotpass on, 3DS will download the update, but won't install it unless you click OK on the prompt that pops up when you open the console.


----------



## TheDreamLord (Sep 29, 2012)

cracker said:


> Sorry if it has been said before as I couldn't read all 19 pages...
> 
> Nintendo is finally forcing people over the barrel just as Sony and Microsoft have done by forcing people to choose either to stay at an old firmware and not allow you onto the shop without it or to upgrade and lose a ton of capabilities. I hope that the people that can't upgrade aren't forced into losing Netflix or online play like those systems did because of this forced upgrade bullshit!


Well if they didn't do this kind of thing, no 3rd parties would develop for the system, therefore this is a good thing, and it will make people work on hacking the 3DS more. All in all I like this update, it shows a nice future and as well, you aren't forced to do it. You get the nice little pop-up asking yes or no.


----------



## Rydian (Sep 29, 2012)

I hope the next DMCA exception ruling adds third-party game system hardware, if true.


----------



## ZeroRamirez2701 (Sep 29, 2012)

I have a revision 5 R4i Gold 3DS,when i update,it fails. This does mean i have to wait for another revision?


----------



## Mantis41 (Sep 29, 2012)

ZeroRamirez2701 said:


> I have a revision 5 R4i Gold 3DS,when i update,it fails. This does mean i have to wait for another revision?


Probably time to purchase another card. The updated 9+ revision cards are fairly cheap although it might be worth holding off for a month or so to see what Nintendo's next play is. It all depends on how much you will miss playing Tower Defence and World of Sand. What!...... What else would you be using a flash cart for.


----------



## smf (Sep 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I hope the next DMCA exception ruling adds third-party game system hardware, if true.



I can't see it happening, it doesn't affect Europe and even with an exception it would only mean that Nintendo can't use the DMCA to stop selling of flashcarts in America. It doesn't stop them from trying their hardest to block you from using them.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm loving everyone blaming Nintendo because they have forced upgrades for certain features. Look, it's a shitty situation, I agree. But don't blame Nintendo for protecting their platform. Don't blame them for wanting to make sure 3rd party developers stay on board. If you want to blame anyone, blame the hackers who's sole intent is to enable the use of 3rd party hardware (Not the majority of them admittedly), blame flash cart makers, blame flash cart resellers, and blame yourself for supporting them.

Admittedly, I am one of those people. Call me a hypocrite, call me a "traitor", call me what you wish, but you need to put the blame where it belongs, and it certainly does not belong on Nintendo's shoulders. Or any gaming company that chooses to actively protect their platforms.

/rant


----------



## VMM (Sep 30, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> I'm loving everyone blaming Nintendo because they have forced upgrades for certain features. Look, it's a shitty situation, I agree. But don't blame Nintendo for protecting their platform. Don't blame them for wanting to make sure 3rd party developers stay on board. If you want to blame anyone, blame the hackers who's sole intent is to enable the use of 3rd party hardware (Not the majority of them admittedly), blame flash cart makers, blame flash cart resellers, and blame yourself for supporting them.
> 
> Admittedly, I am one of those people. Call me a hypocrite, call me a "traitor", call me what you wish, but you need to put the blame where it belongs, and it certainly does not belong on Nintendo's shoulders. Or any gaming company that chooses to actively protect their platforms.
> 
> /rant



I blame Nintendo for taking too much time to block flashcards instead of adding new features to 3DS.
They have the right to protect their system, but that doesn't mean they should do just this.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 30, 2012)

VMM said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > I'm loving everyone blaming Nintendo because they have forced upgrades for certain features. Look, it's a shitty situation, I agree. But don't blame Nintendo for protecting their platform. Don't blame them for wanting to make sure 3rd party developers stay on board. If you want to blame anyone, blame the hackers who's sole intent is to enable the use of 3rd party hardware (Not the majority of them admittedly), blame flash cart makers, blame flash cart resellers, and blame yourself for supporting them.
> ...



You can blame the entitled masses that expect a patch for their R4 SDHC Platinum Mega Mario Super Bird Edition within a week of the firmware update.


----------



## retrodoctor (Sep 30, 2012)

What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.


----------



## VMM (Sep 30, 2012)

retrodoctor said:


> What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.



Then why does it have Nintendo Video, a Music aplication and Photo aplications?
Today, most eletronics have more features than what was firstly projected by them.
Or do you just use your computer to calculate numbers?



TwinRetro said:


> You can blame the entitled masses that expect a patch for their R4 SDHC Platinum Mega Mario Super Bird Edition within a week of the firmware update.



They have nothing to do with Nintendo incompetency.
There will always be pirates, you can't blame then for this.


----------



## retrodoctor (Sep 30, 2012)

VMM said:


> retrodoctor said:
> 
> 
> > What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.
> ...


I'm asking what they would add; not what would be secondary. If you're trying to say Nintendo should focus on building a calculator for the 3DS as opposed to working towards blocking flashcarts, then I honestly can't help you.


----------



## AceWarhead (Sep 30, 2012)

retrodoctor said:


> What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.


So your phone just calls? No texts or little fun apps?
Your computer only "computes"?
I don't get it when people complain about a company trying to integrate more features into their device. It's basically all good for the user end,


----------



## jimmyemunoz (Sep 30, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Look, it's a shitty situation, I agree. But don't blame Nintendo for protecting their platform. Don't blame them for wanting to make sure 3rd party developers stay on board. If you want to blame anyone, blame the hackers who's sole intent is to enable the use of 3rd party hardware (Not the majority of them admittedly), blame flash cart makers, blame flash cart resellers, and blame yourself for supporting them.
> 
> Admittedly, I am one of those people. Call me a hypocrite, call me a "traitor", call me what you wish, but you need to put the blame where it belongs, and it certainly does not belong on Nintendo's shoulders.


I've made up my mind, I blame you TwinRetro. Let the hate begin


----------



## retrodoctor (Sep 30, 2012)

AceWarhead said:


> retrodoctor said:
> 
> 
> > What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.
> ...


What? Do you not understand my question? What features would Nintendo add to the 3DS? My phone has an App Store; the 3DS has the eShop. My phone has a video app, the 3DS has a video app. My phone can take pictures, the 3DS can take pictures. What are you trying to use as your platform to say nintendo has yet to add needed features to the 3DS? Right now, it just seems as if you're bitter because Nintendo is stopping you from downloading and playing their copyrighted games illegally and want them to stop working on preventing piracy on their own device and work to bring "features" that won't be heavily used.


----------



## AceWarhead (Sep 30, 2012)

retrodoctor said:


> AceWarhead said:
> 
> 
> > retrodoctor said:
> ...


No, I'm not bitter at all, I am actually happy that Nintendo actually got their shit together and blocked almost all flashcards.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Sep 30, 2012)

VMM said:


> retrodoctor said:
> 
> 
> > What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.
> ...



I'm not sure you really know the meaning of the word. Seems to me they're pretty competent at blocking flash carts.


----------



## VMM (Sep 30, 2012)

retrodoctor said:


> What "features" would be added to the 3DS? It's purpose it to play games and it does that.






TwinRetro said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > retrodoctor said:
> ...



No flash or html5, no skype, no youtube app, no facebook app, no twitter app,
no SNES VC games, no GBA VC games(beside ambassadors), only one GBC game,
only one retail game at e-shop, no descent way to put videos on 3DS...
The possibilities are endless.

While PSVita updates and gives us PSX support,
the 3DS only block flashcards.

They are incompetent because they released a system that was partially hacked within days,
(not even counting no online service, and lots of hardware problems,)
now instead of adding features they try to fix what isn't broken.


----------



## Lurker2 (Sep 30, 2012)

Some of the vita's firmware upgrades block VHBL which doesn't do anything that causes piracy except older games via emulators. The fact of the matter is both companies have updates that only prevent homebrew/piracy. Adding small things like memos, calculator add on and other things could help ease things.


----------



## shoyrumaster11 (Sep 30, 2012)

Lurker2 said:


> Adding small things like memos, calculator add on and other things could help ease things.



I would like that if Nintendo could add these little features. I'm always using Game Notes for memos but, A separate app made for memos with a few extra features that Game Notes wouldn't have. As for a calculator, there's quite a bit on DSiWare. And I can't think of anything else. If Nintendo continues to block flashcards meant for the Nintendo DS/DSi, I may switch to the PS Vita and put CFW on that!


----------



## RodrigoDavy (Sep 30, 2012)

Lurker2 said:


> The fact of the matter is both companies have updates that only prevent homebrew/piracy. Adding small things like memos, calculator add on and other things could help ease things.



I would love to have skype or at least something similar (my smartphone doesn't have a front camera). There are some other promises that weren't accomplished like Flipnote Memo and yet many things to improve I actually love utility apps like the DSi tuner, would love to see a real notepad that generates txt files, a pdf reader, a better sound recording app... There are many possibilities, one of the mains reasons I want homebrew is that I know Nintendo won't do 10% of these things.


----------



## AudibleAdvent (Sep 30, 2012)

Yet another reason you should never update your 3DS. There's no point anyway, other than the added benefit of accessing the eShop which, at the moment, has nothing that sparks my interest.


----------



## Rydian (Sep 30, 2012)

VMM said:


> While PSVita updates and gives us PSX support,
> the 3DS only block flashcards.


lolno
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_3DS_system_software
Start reading from the bottom, it's in reverse chronological order.



VMM said:


> They are incompetent because they released a system that was partially hacked within days


They could have released the 3DS with no DS cart compatibility at all, or they could have released the 3DS with the same compatibility as the DSi, and they chose the latter.  That means that flash carts could run.  DS mode was cracked ages ago and it has to do with the system itself, not the implementation.  It was either include DS-mode, hackable, or don't include DS cart compatibility.

Also inb4 "No they managed to block flash carts with the latest update" - The DSTwo and R4i Gold say hi, and these are just early examples.


----------



## Rockym (Sep 30, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> I'm loving everyone blaming Nintendo because they have forced upgrades for certain features. Look, it's a shitty situation, I agree. But don't blame Nintendo for protecting their platform. Don't blame them for wanting to make sure 3rd party developers stay on board. If you want to blame anyone, blame the hackers who's sole intent is to enable the use of 3rd party hardware (Not the majority of them admittedly), blame flash cart makers, blame flash cart resellers, and blame yourself for supporting them.
> 
> Admittedly, I am one of those people. Call me a hypocrite, call me a "traitor", call me what you wish, but you need to put the blame where it belongs, and it certainly does not belong on Nintendo's shoulders. Or any gaming company that chooses to actively protect their platforms.
> 
> /rant



Gee that's funny, last I checked current flashcarts can only play DS games and couldn't ever be used to play 3DS games.  So how exactly are they "protecting their platform"?  Not to mention, ione can still use the flashcart in a DS Lite or DSi, so they are really stopping nothing.  And as for making sure 3rd party developers stay on board, does Nintendo want them producing DS games for the 3DS?  And the DS had great third party support even though piracy was rampant on it.

Sorry, but it does seem pointless of Nintendo to block these flashcarts when they are really no threat to the 3DS.  Even if the 3DS does eventually gets hacked, current DS flashcarts probably won't be able to play 3DS roms.


----------



## porkiewpyne (Sep 30, 2012)

Rockym said:


> Gee that's funny, last I checked current flashcarts can only play DS games and couldn't ever be used to play 3DS games.  So how exactly are they "protecting their platform"?


Because the 3DS CAN play DS games natively? Whether or not it plays 3DS roms is irrelevant. Going by your logic, it'll be ok if I make a phone app that gives you unlimited texts (Whatsapp doesn't count because it uses mobile internet) because my app cannot give me free calls. O____o

Sure Ninty can't stop you from using it on your other consoles. They prob would if they could. I like to think like a lock on the door. The hardcore/determined thieves/robbers will break into your house even if you put 6858365838572909028473674 locks. But that doesn't mean I am gonna leave the door unlocked. Gonna put SOME sort of a fight in that sense.


----------



## VMM (Sep 30, 2012)

Rydian said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > While PSVita updates and gives us PSX support,
> ...




No I'm saying about the last update.
To say the truth the last 3 updates were basically just blocking flashcards.




Rydian said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > They are incompetent because they released a system that was partially hacked within days
> ...



DSTwo and R4i Gold were blocked, the fact that they needed firmware updates to be compatible with this new update shows this is true.

This last update used something so simple but so effectual that I wonder why didn't they do it on 3DS release.
If they used this AP method since 3DS release, or even before, then I would say they were competent into blocking flashcards.
This update, out of nowhere, looks like an attempt to fix the fence while the cows are gone.


----------



## Rydian (Sep 30, 2012)

I meant permanently blocked.  There's unlikely to be any real way (outside of hardware probing stuff) to detect flash carts in DS-mode.


----------



## lizard81288 (Sep 30, 2012)

I wish Nintendo would use the e-shop more. I liked the fact that all of the games I wanted to play, are on one card. Atleast I have my old DS.


----------



## exangel (Sep 30, 2012)

lizard81288 said:


> I wish Nintendo would use the e-shop more. I liked the fact that all of the games I wanted to play, are on one card. Atleast I have my old DS.



Maybe they're hanging onto the next "version" of 3DS (a la DSi to the DS) to add DS games to the eShop -.- 
It would be effing great if they'd do it, there are plenty of people who would rather buy direct from Nintendo to have those games all-in-one then pay for physical or especially used games (which they make no extra money on).  I like to keep a 3DS compatible flashcart so I only have to keep one console with me when I'm out of the house, but I jumped at the chance to buy the downloadable version of NSMB2 and for *some* games I'd even be willing to pay close to retail for the DS versions as downloadable in the same vein.

On the other hand a lot of people are crossing all their fingers and toes and praying for a softmod/loader that can do such a thing from SD.  
It's hard to claim I'd rather empty my wallet than do a softmod -- but I'd rather support some of those developers than rip the games off, at least in the case of DS games that I never owned my own copy of.  For the ones where I still own the physical carts I will "pirate" other versions of them mercilessly because I paid full retail at launch for games like Chrono Trigger DS & FF3.


----------



## MeowTheMouse (Sep 30, 2012)

lizard81288 said:


> I wish Nintendo would use the e-shop more. I liked the fact that all of the games I wanted to play, are on one card. Atleast I have my old DS.


I wish Nintendo would use the e-shop and lower their freekin prices. After pirating and buying digital content, paying even 20$ for a 3ds game seems too high.


----------



## smf (Sep 30, 2012)

porkiewpyne said:


> Going by your logic, it'll be ok if I make a phone app that gives you unlimited texts (Whatsapp doesn't count because it uses mobile internet) because my app cannot give me free calls. O____o



Nintendo blocking DS flash carts on 3DS is like your mobile provider giving you unlimited internet access but blocking whatsapp, so that you're forced to use text messaging & then make you pay for each.

I don't understand why they are wasting their effort on it. Someone will end up making a better flash cart. The only justification would be if Nintendo lose money selling the 3DS and they need you to buy some 3DS games. That is not something that Nintendo usually do though, their hardware is normally priced so that they make some profit.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 1, 2012)

smf said:


> Nintendo blocking DS flash carts on 3DS is like your mobile provider giving you unlimited internet access but blocking whatsapp, so that you're forced to use text messaging & then make you pay for each.
> 
> I don't understand why they are wasting their effort on it. Someone will end up making a better flash cart. The only justification would be if Nintendo lose money selling the 3DS and they need you to buy some 3DS games. That is not something that Nintendo usually do though, their hardware is normally priced so that they make some profit.


Nintendo is _*still*_ releasing DS games, DSiEnhanced games and selling DSi systems, and even if they weren't, it's natural to expect anti piracy updates from them in order to protect their property.


----------



## smf (Oct 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Nintendo is _*still*_ releasing DS games, DSiEnhanced games and selling DSi systems, and even if they weren't, it's natural to expect anti piracy updates from them in order to protect their property.



It doesn't protect their property though, it just stops pirates from upgrading to a 3DS. It would make sense if they pushed this update out to the DSi first.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 1, 2012)

smf said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo is _*still*_ releasing DS games, DSiEnhanced games and selling DSi systems, and even if they weren't, it's natural to expect anti piracy updates from them in order to protect their property.
> ...


They took their sweet time developing it, it seems. It's an obstacle pirates are facing since withou updates, future games will be unplayable to them. To continue using the eShop and playing 3DS games, they will be forced to update, rendering their flashcarts unusable.


----------



## DeShelly (Oct 1, 2012)

I updated my 3ds... I will go to get a supercard very soon...


----------



## thunder.echoes (Oct 1, 2012)

I have the correct R4i gold 3DS cart www.r4ids.cn, but unfortunately the number on it is 6. I got it when they first came out. The update will only work on the 9, A, B, C. I see on a few sites that sell them the ads say they will work on the new 3DS update V4.4.0-10. I am not willing to take the chance of ordering a new one in case they still have the old ones in stock.

Fortunately I have a SCDS2 which works great on my updated 3DS. The only problem is it will not take the codes for ACWW, which is what I like to play until the new 3DS AC comes out.


----------



## VMM (Oct 1, 2012)

thunder.echoes said:


> I have the correct R4i gold 3DS cart www.r4ids.cn, but unfortunately the number on it is 6. I got it when they first came out. The update will only work on the 9, A, B, C. I see on a few sites that sell them the ads say they will work on the new 3DS update V4.4.0-10. I am not willing to take the chance of ordering a new one in case they still have the old ones in stock.
> 
> Fortunately I have a SCDS2 which works great on my updated 3DS. The only problem is it will not take the codes for ACWW, which is what I like to play until the new 3DS AC comes out.



What do you mean with ACWW and 3DS AC?


----------



## Arras (Oct 1, 2012)

VMM said:


> thunder.echoes said:
> 
> 
> > I have the correct R4i gold 3DS cart www.r4ids.cn, but unfortunately the number on it is 6. I got it when they first came out. The update will only work on the 9, A, B, C. I see on a few sites that sell them the ads say they will work on the new 3DS update V4.4.0-10. I am not willing to take the chance of ordering a new one in case they still have the old ones in stock.
> ...


Animal Crossing.


----------



## thunder.echoes (Oct 1, 2012)

VMM said:


> thunder.echoes said:
> 
> 
> > I have the correct R4i gold 3DS cart www.r4ids.cn, but unfortunately the number on it is 6. I got it when they first came out. The update will only work on the 9, A, B, C. I see on a few sites that sell them the ads say they will work on the new 3DS update V4.4.0-10. I am not willing to take the chance of ordering a new one in case they still have the old ones in stock.
> ...



ACWW = Animal Crossing Wild World - 3DS AC = Animal Crossing 3D

edit: (the R4i gold 3DS took the codes for ACWW)


----------



## jerbear64 (Oct 1, 2012)

Team R4i-SDHC has posted a video of their flashcart working on v4.0.0-10. They haven't posted an update yet, it seems they're waiting to release a wave of 4.0.0-10 flashcarts before providing an update for the old flashcarts.


----------



## smf (Oct 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> They took their sweet time developing it, it seems. It's an obstacle pirates are facing since withou updates, future games will be unplayable to them. To continue using the eShop and playing 3DS games, they will be forced to update, rendering their flashcarts unusable.



So by blocking flashcarts, the pirates will stop using the eShop or buying new games. At least until they get hold of a new flashcart.


----------



## Cuber (Oct 2, 2012)

Well I guess I'll never be able to use my Acekard in my 3DS, though I never did anyway, always used my DS lite.


----------



## Minox (Oct 2, 2012)

smf said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > They took their sweet time developing it, it seems. It's an obstacle pirates are facing since withou updates, future games will be unplayable to them. To continue using the eShop and playing 3DS games, they will be forced to update, rendering their flashcarts unusable.
> ...


Either that or they might actually start buying games. The more of a hassle Nintendo makes it to be a pirate the less likely people are to actually bother with it.


----------



## iHeartlessHero13 (Oct 2, 2012)

Yet another reason I'm glad I invested in the DSTWO when it was launched.. TYBG


----------



## VMM (Oct 2, 2012)

I bought a DSTwo about two months and it didn't arrive yet 
The way it's going, I just hope it arrive until the end of the year


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Oct 2, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> OrGoN3 said:
> 
> 
> > I still do not see how you are mad at Nintendo for blocking third party, unlicensed add-ons. They blocked illegal flashcarts, and ONE actual peripheral (that refuses to pay Nintendo a licensing fee) that is sold in stores. All Datel has to do is license their product with Nintendo. They probably refuse to pay the licensing fee, so you no longer get to use it. Nintendo waited years before implementing this method. Most likely on purpose. A bit funny how it gets updated close to the release of Pokemon Black/White 2.
> ...


You got some mr. krabs in your bikini bottom?



> if you are so against piracy and lick Nintendo ass why are you at gbatemp?



Really dude? You're a bigger "idiot" than he is. You do realize that there are crap tons of different sections on this site other than the hacking stuff right? I'm against piracy and flashcards, I enjoy the community and discussions that happen here. Don't be so stuck up.


----------



## smf (Oct 2, 2012)

Minox said:


> Either that or they might actually start buying games. The more of a hassle Nintendo makes it to be a pirate the less likely people are to actually bother with it.



No, this is the only thing you can guarantee won't happen. Pirates won't start buying DS games just so they can play them on a 3DS. They'll either stop buying 3DS games, they'll buy a second hand DS/DSlite/DSI/DSIXL or they'll buy a new flashcart.

There is no outcome where Nintendo will make more money.


----------



## machmandp (Oct 2, 2012)

smf said:


> Minox said:
> 
> 
> > Either that or they might actually start buying games. The more of a hassle Nintendo makes it to be a pirate the less likely people are to actually bother with it.
> ...




I have posted about this before but i totally agree with the above and here's why

Think about why we have the Flashcards for the 3DS , 2 reasons 
1. Emulators and Homebrew
2. DS games we still want to play
If nintendo block the carts then the only options really is to get a DS or DSI and use the card on that but that means money on 2nd hand stuff that Nintendo will not get or get a new card which again Nintendo will not get anything from.

As regards to DS games i do not want to carry around all my DS  games or another System when i just about have the room to carry my 3DS XL around , so users will most likely buy another Flashcard thats not blocked, this again as people do not have unlimited funds will divert money away from nintendo as the choice may be a new 3DS game or a new FlashCard.

and finally there will be those who will not update so their existing flashcard will work so yet again no money for nintendo as they will not be able to buy from the E-Shop.

in all Nintendos persistence in constantly blocking the cards i believe is actually Harming them and giving more and more money to the companies that make and sell the cards
just think that if all of the companies now came out with new cards (or even just a few) thats loads of users worldwide that would have to buy new cards again and thats a hell of a lot of money that could have gone Nintendos way.


----------



## exangel (Oct 2, 2012)

Although I disagree that Nintendo would make no money from blocking flashcarts, it's more because it _can't_ be proven, rationale is _not as good as_ numbers--
nevertheless, I think Nintendo is stupid for investing the effort into doing this and not doing anything about* providing DS titles in the eShop.  If they want to block flashcarts and actually make a profit in doing so, they need to provide an alternative to people who WOULD pay for the ability to keep their games all-in-one.  (However, I have DStwo and r4ids.cn carts, so I can still have pirated games, alongside games I still own physical copies of and dumped with my DS Lite for my own more-convenient use.)

*I realize there are a couple DSiWare titles that are duplicates of the DS games, but come on.  A large number of those DS games are less than 128MBytes, they should at least start trickling AAA titles in.  There are a few DS titles so good I'd buy them again just to load them from the Home screen instead of a flashcart.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 2, 2012)

smf said:


> So by blocking flashcarts, the pirates will stop using the eShop or buying new games. At least until they get hold of a new flashcart.


So by blocking flashcarts, they will have a practically useless 3DS - a 3DS that only plays DS games. They'll eventually crack.


----------



## indask8 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm sure this new feature will soon come to the DSi, so don't update your DSi if you still want to use your flashcarts (outside the DSTWO/R4igold).


----------



## ascension7 (Oct 2, 2012)

Glad I got my DSTwo.  Sad that the latch broke so now my SD will shoot out of it unless I tape it in.  But it's not so bad.


----------



## Pong20302000 (Oct 2, 2012)

ascension7 said:


> Glad I got my DSTwo.  Sad that the latch broke so now my SD will shoot out of it unless I tape it in.  But it's not so bad.



if you undo the screw you can take the spring out you know, then it will be just a push/pull slot


----------



## ascension7 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> ascension7 said:
> 
> 
> > Glad I got my DSTwo.  Sad that the latch broke so now my SD will shoot out of it unless I tape it in.  But it's not so bad.
> ...




Sweet mother of florida summer lemonade, that's awesome, thanks for letting me know!  I've been hesitant to take the card out because it's such a hassle to put back in.


----------



## VMM (Oct 2, 2012)

exangel said:


> Although I disagree that Nintendo would make no money from blocking flashcarts, it's more because it _can't_ be proven, rationale is _not as good as_ numbers--
> nevertheless, I think Nintendo is stupid for investing the effort into doing this and not doing anything about* providing DS titles in the eShop.  If they want to block flashcarts and actually make a profit in doing so, they need to provide an alternative to people who WOULD pay for the ability to keep their games all-in-one.  (However, I have DStwo and r4ids.cn carts, so I can still have pirated games, alongside games I still own physical copies of and dumped with my DS Lite for my own more-convenient use.)
> 
> *I realize there are a couple DSiWare titles that are duplicates of the DS games, but come on.  A large number of those DS games are less than 128MBytes, they should at least start trickling AAA titles in.  There are a few DS titles so good I'd buy them again just to load them from the Home screen instead of a flashcart.



I always tought the same.
If Nintendo released their games on DSi Ware and E-Shop,
and stimulated developers into putting their titles on e-shop,
with descent prices,
the blocking flashcards would have a real purpose.

I would buy a lot of DS games if they were avaiable at e-shop.


----------



## smf (Oct 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> So by blocking flashcarts, they will have a practically useless 3DS - a 3DS that only plays DS games. They'll eventually crack.



For a pirate who never buys any games then a 3DS only ever does play DS games. There are other reasons to buy a 3DS over a DSlite that aren't related to 3DS games at all. In the meantime anyone who does pirate DS games but buys 3DS games is either going to wait, buy a better flashcart or buy a second hand console. A very small percentage might give up on their current flashcart in the short term and update, but they can always buy one in the future again when they want to play an old DS game.

There really is no benefit to Nintendo. They'd be better off investing in in-game copy protection for any new DS games. Protecting old DS games has no real benefit to Nintendo, you could just buy them second hand anyway & they don't get anything from that.


----------



## exangel (Oct 2, 2012)

smf said:


> There are other reasons to buy a 3DS over a DSlite that aren't related to 3DS games at all.


Can you explain such reasons? The only thing that comes to mind is Swapnote and the 3D Camera/Gallery.  With Swapnote you'd still have to get from the eShop.  3DS games aside, otherwise DSi XL is superior. 

I think investing in more copy protection for future physical DS cartridge releases would be pretty misguided when they can focus on the fact people really want full downloadable games and are willing to pay: as people do with PSN, and the reason XBL has expanded their download on demand library.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 2, 2012)

smf said:


> For a pirate who never buys any games then a 3DS only ever does play DS games. There are other reasons to buy a 3DS over a DSlite that aren't related to 3DS games at all.


Reasons like what?

You cannot access DSiMode, you cannot access the eShop if you don't update, you cannot play 3DS games if you don't update. Everything about the 3DS that's not available on the DS is by proxy blocked to you, because it requires the latest firmware revision. By not updating, you cripple the system, by updating you cripple the flashcart.

Nintendo doesn't care whether the "pirates" will buy more games or not - they already bought the system and Nintendo knows that they will cave in, eventually. It's really that simple, and expecting them to do anything else is pure fantasy.

Pirates gonna pirate, and Nintendo knows that. This is why it's making the life of a pirate quite unpleasant and limited. It's damage control.


----------



## jimmyemunoz (Oct 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> "you cannot play 3DS games if you don't update"


Please explain what you meant by this? I'm confused.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 2, 2012)

jimmyemunoz said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > "you cannot play 3DS games if you don't update"
> ...


Certain 3DS games require you to update the system. By not updating, you restrict yourself to only those games that work on your firmware version. Newer games may (and likely will) fail to boot and request an update, much like in the case of the Wii.


----------



## machmandp (Oct 2, 2012)

well to prove one point ,  have not updated as yet and not sure what to do
but i have been enjoying NSMB2 and i see that there are new coin rush levels just released and i was think of getting them
but as i cant access the eshop ive sat back and thought about it and realised that i cant be bothered as i have just ordered the dstwo 
so at least i can say that's some cash that nintendo wont be getting


----------



## rashmatt (Oct 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> jimmyemunoz said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


I've just received my 3DS XL and it came with 4.1.0.  Is there a way to update to 4.3.0 instead of 4.4.0?  Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Minox (Oct 2, 2012)

rashmatt said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > jimmyemunoz said:
> ...


To my understanding you do not need to update to 4.3.0 since they haven't introduced any really important features during these smaller updates.


----------



## VMM (Oct 2, 2012)

rashmatt said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > jimmyemunoz said:
> ...



No it isn't. If you use a flashcard on 3DS, unless you want to buy something on e-shop
I do not recommend you into updating


----------



## rashmatt (Oct 2, 2012)

VMM said:


> rashmatt said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Thanks guys.  Just wanted to update in case a game requires the newer versions, but will stay at 4.1.0 then.


----------



## Deleted-236924 (Oct 2, 2012)

rashmatt said:


> VMM said:
> 
> 
> > rashmatt said:
> ...


If a game requires a newer firmware, then the game will prompt the system to update to that version when booting the cart anyway.


----------



## DJ91990 (Oct 2, 2012)

I saw a couple videos about the Supercard DSTwo and one thing bugged me about it. The SD slot is spring loaded, much like the R4DS. Yes, I got the spring problem with my R4 by the way. So if I do decide to buy a Supercard DSTwo, the first damn thing that I am going to do is insert a SD card and the pull it out and push it in manually instead of using the spring loaded action. We all know how those springs like to break.


----------



## thunder.echoes (Oct 2, 2012)

DJ91990 said:


> I saw a couple videos about the Supercard DSTwo and one thing bugged me about it. The SD slot is spring loaded, much like the R4DS. Yes, I got the spring problem with my R4 by the way. So if I do decide to buy a Supercard DSTwo, the first damn thing that I am going to do is insert a SD card and the pull it out and push it in manually instead of using the spring loaded action. We all know how those springs like to break.



I have had a SCDS2 for over a year now. I have taken out the sd numerous times for updating etc & have never had a problem with the spring. In fact that is one of the things I like about the cart.


----------



## codezer0 (Oct 3, 2012)

Yea, I for one am one who only has a Nintendo 3DS, and I have a Supercard DStwo; I previously had an Acekard 2i, but it was an HW44 edition one. One reason I 'upgraded' to the 3DS, was because of how many times I've had to basically replace my DS lite(s) due to the same two primary problems: (a) hinge cracking and making it unstable, or (b) shoulder buttons refusing to work.

I believe(d) in the awesomeness of _Nintendium_, and on the console front, I still do. But I am very, very disappointed with how fragile and weak the DS lineup has been for so long. It has only been some relief (and one reason I don't have any of those systems) that I'd been able to do an in-store replacement plan to allow me to just return it and get a new one when that stuff happens. Yes, I use my DS rather consistently... but that's simply no excuse. And the one time I tried to 'upgrade' to a DSi, and it ends up being unstable and crash-happy as heck! The 3DS was the first DS-style system since the original that I felt was actually built as durable as their past awesomeness. And at the very least, it has been... especially helpful since the stores that I used to use for such plans stopped having such a turnaround, and now want to have the system mailed out to some service center and keep me without a console for months at a time.


----------



## jax604 (Oct 3, 2012)

r4i-sdhc 3ds from r4i-sdhc.com released update for v4.4.0, just an heads up.


----------



## Sonic4Ever (Oct 3, 2012)

jax604 said:


> r4i-sdhc 3ds from r4i-sdhc.com released update for v4.4.0, just an heads up.


Their news were supposing they would release a brand new card to fix this, but I'll just conclude that their english is total shit


----------



## pokepower22 (Oct 3, 2012)

Im more scared to update my R4I.SDHC 3DS(wich is basicly a R4I-SDHC but putting the 3ds patch on so it works on the 3ds too.)I need to update it due to some of the purchase's when the new Pokemon game comes out.Im gonna wait untill someone tests this.


----------



## sred93 (Oct 3, 2012)

Flashcarts supported :

- SuperCard DSTWO (eng.supercard.sc)
- R4i 3DS (www.r4i-sdhc.com)
- R4i Gold 3DS (www.r4ids.cn)
- R4i Gold 3DS (www.r4idsn.com)
- R4i Gold Wood (www.r4igold.cc)
- R4i Gold Plus (www.r4ids.com)
- Amaze3DS (www.amaze3ds.com)
- Ace3DS Plus (www.ace3ds.com)


----------



## thunder.echoes (Oct 3, 2012)

sred93 said:


> Flashcarts supported :
> 
> - SuperCard DSTWO (eng.supercard.sc)
> - R4i 3DS (www.r4i-sdhc.com)
> ...


This goes with the links for R4i Gold 3DS carts as not all of them can be updated with the patch:
*Note: * This patch is designed for R4i Gold 3DS to run on 3DS V4.4.0-10,* Please note that it's just for the batches of PCB digital number >8 (means 9, A,B,C)*, can be updated with this patch, and we are still working on those old revisions (below "9" , means 6,7,8), will keep it updated on our website soon...


----------



## Pong20302000 (Oct 3, 2012)

sred93 said:


> Flashcarts supported :
> 
> - SuperCard DSTWO (eng.supercard.sc)
> - R4i 3DS (www.r4i-sdhc.com)
> ...





thunder.echoes said:


> sred93 said:
> 
> 
> > Flashcarts supported :
> ...


all info already here

http://gbatemp.net/topic/302773-firmware-update-compilation-thread-list-of-flashcards-working-on-3ds/


----------



## Aster Selene (Oct 4, 2012)

Sigh. A friend just told me to get the Acekard instead of the R4i and I got it literally a week ago.
Now I feel like I shouldn't have listened to her.
Especially since I actually plan to use the eShop...

...Well, time to get an R4 now.


----------



## Crimsonclaw111 (Oct 5, 2012)

Aster Selene said:


> Sigh. A friend just told me to get the Acekard instead of the R4i and I got it literally a week ago.
> Now I feel like I shouldn't have listened to her.
> Especially since I actually plan to use the eShop...
> 
> ...Well, time to get an R4 now.


At least on the plus side you have another flashcart that can fix your R4i if it bricks. The Acekard is also still a great DS flashcart.


----------



## Giga_Gaia (Oct 5, 2012)

If you go to acekard website, there is a recently posted news telling you not to update to 4.4.0-10 until they release their new update. This probably mean that they found a way to make it work on 4.4.0-10.

Don't expect it soon though, looking at the previous news, it takes them 1 or 2 months between this warning and an actual update.


----------



## ascension7 (Oct 6, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> ascension7 said:
> 
> 
> > Glad I got my DSTwo.  Sad that the latch broke so now my SD will shoot out of it unless I tape it in.  But it's not so bad.
> ...


Have you actually done this?  Because I've taken the lid off, and I'm not sure what to do with it.

EDIT: Okay so, I didn't figure out how to break it per say, but I did figure out how to make it stay in its 'loaded' position.  Now the spring won't move, and I am able to remove and place the SD card at will.  Close enough


----------



## Cartmanuk (Oct 7, 2012)

* R4isdhc Dual-Core Card now works with latest 3DS 4.4.0-10 update.*​


----------



## omgpwn666 (Oct 7, 2012)

Sucks, since I really don't want to buy another flashcart.


----------



## lenselijer (Oct 8, 2012)

R4igold.cc 3DS card is also updated 

Icon is Metroid Prime Demo now.


----------



## AskaLangly (Oct 8, 2012)

You know, this got me wondering... it might be one of THE first things out for the original DS, but it's first-party. Wouldn't Ninty say something about this?


----------



## Crimsonclaw111 (Oct 8, 2012)

AskaLangly said:


> You know, this got me wondering... it might be one of THE first things out for the original DS, but it's first-party. Wouldn't Ninty say something about this?


They would've said something to Datel first because of their DSi Action Replay cart. It used the Game and Watch Collection (2?) icon at one point but idk if it still does or not.


----------



## Derek D (Oct 9, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> Derek D said:
> 
> 
> > now dstwo, r4i gold 3ds have released the patch. and the r4i sdhc will do it soon.
> ...


----------



## Pong20302000 (Oct 9, 2012)

Derek D said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > Derek D said:
> ...


----------

