# Woman fired after video goes viral - people say it was racist, but is it?



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-fired-video-shows-blocking-black-man-entering/story?id=58506023



> A white woman in St. Louis was fired after videos went viral of her trying to block a black man from entering his own apartment building on Saturday.



If you see the video, all she did was asking the person to show that he has the key to enter. He, instead, pulled out his phone and started recording her, telling her that he doesn't have to show anything. This is true, but where is the racism?

Those who live in a condo know exactly what kind of people enter in and it has nothing to do with race. Some people are so fed up with these people that they have no problems calling people out who don't enter from the main door by using their key, but by waiting for someone to open it. I have watched the video multiple times and I can't see, or hear, anything remotely racist from this woman. And now she's fired, because "guilty until proven innocent". Good job.


What do you think?


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## r5xscn (Oct 16, 2018)

IMHO, everyone is at fault here. The woman does not seem to be authorized to be a guard there (she didn't wear a guard suit). The black man said that its racist, from the video we can know that the woman only wanted to see his ID to authorize his entry, nothing racist IMO. Also, damned be her husband lol for shaming her wife (even if they have lived separately).

This would fare better if she wore a guard suit or even an ID, this would fare better.



> Toles says this isn't a time for negativity and asked people to send the woman "positive waves of energy."


Oh the irony, then why did you publish that video in the first place and calling her racist, Toles?

Additionally, we haven't heard her side of the story. I wouldn't believe what the news wrote. The news is inconclusive without her side of the story.


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## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

Hard to prove for sure that her motivations were racist, but either way she should be fired for her stupidity.  Anybody is going to be pissed if you try to deny them access to their own home, and with good reason.  Especially if it's a woman with the "I want to speak to your manager" look denying you.


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## dimmidice (Oct 16, 2018)

She is not a cop. She is not the building owner. So she had no right to ask anyone anything like that. And let's face it. She probably asked him cause he's black. We can't be certain of course. But it's likely. 

Edit she called the police after seeing him enter an apartment with the key. How dumb is she?


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## Ericthegreat (Oct 16, 2018)

If she was just afraid that was not being racist, but she seemed to have that "I got you now" type of gastopo issue some people have, I think she maybe deserves the criticism only because if she was afraid, she should have just went in her apartment, locked the door, and called the police. Now does she deserve to lose her job, eh, not really, people make mistakes, and we don't need to destroy their lives over it, I'm sure the criticism was more then enough.


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## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

dimmidice said:


> She is not a cop. She is not the building owner. So she had no right to ask anyone anything like that. And let's face it. She probably asked him cause he's black. We can't be certain of course. But it's likely.


Yeah just from the video footage this looks like a fairly affluent condo complex, so she was likely assuming the black guy couldn't possibly be rich enough to be living there.  Again, hard to prove motivations 100%, but I'm guessing he's probably the only person she's done that to, and/or the only black person that lives there.  She should've just given up after asking him a couple times, or called the cops in the first place if she suspected he was a "problem."


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## grossaffe (Oct 16, 2018)

You do not put your hands on a stranger, and you do not stalk them to their door. She's lucky he didn't knock her out.  Of course, in today's society, he'd have been thrown in prison if he did so because he's a man and she's a woman.


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 16, 2018)

Are you for real? Nothing racist here? She only wanted to see his key?

I can just see you asking for his head if these roles had been reversed.

She has literally no authority to stop anyone from entering a building or demanding to see a key and this kind of bullshit is happening all across the country.
She's clearly not been standing there all day demanding to see everyones keys, she's obviously, as is normal for these situations, singled out the black guy. And she continues to harrass him all the way up the fourth floor?

Even in the best case, her distrust is obviously based entirely on that mans skin color.

 And just like those freaks calling the cops on 9 year old black children, she deserves every bit of social ousting she got for it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



grossaffe said:


> You do not put your hands on a stranger, and you do not stalk them to their door. She's lucky he didn't knock her out.  Of course, in today's society, he'd have been thrown in prison if he did so because he's a man and she's a woman.


no, because you don't knock someone out just for touching you...


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Are you for real? Nothing racist here? She only wanted to see his key?
> 
> I can just see you asking for his head if these roles had been reversed.
> 
> ...


What she did was wrong but the reasonings are far from racist. If you live in a condo, it's certain that you will see paranoid people that question those who enter without using a key. Had the guy been white, people would have dismissed the woman as "crazy" and that's it. But because of hurr racism, another live was ruined.


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Hard to prove for sure that her motivations were racist, but either way she should be fired for her stupidity.  Anybody is going to be pissed if you try to deny them access to their own home, and with good reason.  Especially if it's a woman with the "I want to speak to your manager" look denying you.


I lived in a condo for years before moving out and you would be surprised at the amount of non-residents entering the building to "snoop around". When I visited a friend living in another condo I was questioned a couple of times when I would enter without a key, and I'm white.


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> What she did was wrong but the reasonings are far from racist. If you live in a condo, it's certain that you will see paranoid people that question those who enter without using a key. Had the guy been white, people would have dismissed the woman as "crazy" and that's it. But because of hurr racism, another live was ruined.



1. if he was white, she wouldn't have questioned him at all.
2. if she was so paranoid, why did she leave her non authorized post to follow and harass this man? countless people could have entered the building at that time
3. What do you mean enter without using a key? He entered without showing some stranger his key as he had every right to do so. You're trying to make the story fit your idiot notion of 'no way was there any racism involved'
4. of course, had the guy been white, no one would even assume racism. and no one would have if she was at all known for demanding to see peoples keys all the time. but she didn't and she isn't.
EDIT 5. also, life destroyed? She lost a fucking job. Or did I miss her being shot 9 times in the back or tasered multiple times to the heart till she died, despite being unarmed having done nothing wrong. That's lives being destroyed. Not reaping what you sow.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Song of storms said:


> I lived in a condo for years before moving out and you would be surprised at the amount of non-residents entering the building to "snoop around". When I visited a friend living in another condo I was questioned a couple of times when I would enter without a key, and I'm white.


I'm sure you were, hundreds, if not thousands of times. How utterly convenient.
And even if so, doesn't at all give anyone any more right to demand to see a key from anyone.
And I'm sure, when you visited 'your friends condo', if you could not produce a key, you were also reported to the police and harassed all the way to his door, right?


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> 1. if he was white, she wouldn't have questioned him at all.
> 2. if she was so paranoid, why did she leave her non authorized post to follow and harass this man? countless people could have entered the building at that time
> 3. What do you mean enter without using a key? He entered without showing some stranger his key as he had every right to do so. You're trying to make the story fit your idiot notion of 'no way was there any racism involved'
> 4. of course, had the guy been white, no one would even assume racism. and no one would have if she was at all known for demanding to see peoples keys all the time. but she didn't and she isn't.
> ...


I guess you would like to live in a society where people are guilty until proven innocent. Some parts of south america are like that, so move and have fun.

And no, I never had any trouble because I understood why someone would be suspicious of a stranger entering a building without a key, so I explained myself instead of pulling my phone out and acting like a jackass.


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Are you for real? Nothing racist here? She only wanted to see his key?
> 
> I can just see you asking for his head if these roles had been reversed.
> 
> ...


Asking someone to show a key is not racist. Give it up. I agree with you that she had no right to stop someone or ask someone for a key but that is not racism. You don't think you sound racist for saying she is only singling him out because he is black? Why? Because she is white?


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## The Catboy (Oct 16, 2018)

This seems very racially motivated. She had no reason, nor authority to ask him key nor did she have any reason to suspect him for breaking and entering. The only reason I can think of would be based on his race. 


PanTheFaun said:


> Asking someone to show a key is not racist. Give it up. I agree with you that she had no right to stop someone or ask someone for a key but that is not racism. You don't think you sound racist for saying she is only singling him out because he is black? Why? Because she is white?


And why would she need to question him in the first place? She had no logical reason to question him being there.


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Asking someone to show a key is not racist. Give it up. I agree with you that she had no right to stop someone or ask someone for a key but that is not racism. You don't think you sound racist for saying she is only singling him out because he is black? Why? Because she is white?


What a surprise, the white nationalist supporter and/or also likely racist coming to defend another racist.
I already explained myself, literally right there, so read instead of making up shitty strawmen.


Song of storms said:


> I guess you would like to live in a society where people are guilty until proven innocent. Some parts of south america are like that, so move and have fun.
> 
> And no, I never had any trouble because I understood why someone would be suspicious of a stranger entering a building without a key, so I explained myself instead of pulling my phone out and acting like a jackass.



And you honestly believe, even if he was just there to visit and didn't actually have a key, that she accepted his 'explaining himself'? Just like all the other racists accept explanations from black people?
Just like cops accept black people literally in tears explaining that they will now slowly reach for their wallet and to please not to shoot them before they're being shot by some 'scared' cop?


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> This seems very racially motivated. She had no reason, nor authority to ask him key nor did she have any reason to suspect him for breaking and entering. The only reason I can think of would be based on his race.
> 
> And why would she need to question him in the first place? She had no logical reason to question him being there.


I'm assuming she stopped him because she never seen him before and he may have looked suspicious.

*modsnip*


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## The Catboy (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I'm assuming she stopped him because she never seen him before and he may have looked suspicious.
> 
> *modsnip*


Ok? She couldn't just introduce herself to him and have a normal conversation like a normal person?
Also nice goal post move


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Ok? She couldn't just introduce herself to him and have a normal conversation like a normal person?
> Also nice goal post move


That's your opinion and I'm sure she would of questioned anybody that looked suspicious.

She could have introduced herself but she didn't. She can do what she wants.

Thanks man. c:


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> This seems very racially motivated. She had no reason, nor authority to ask him key nor did she have any reason to suspect him for breaking and entering. The only reason I can think of would be based on his race.
> 
> And why would she need to question him in the first place? She had no logical reason to question him being there.


I literally wrote in the OP that's not that uncommon for people living in condos to be suspicious of any strangers, no matter the race. He waited for someone to open the door to enter and that is seen as a red flag by many people. Did she go over the line? Yes. Was it racist? No. Did she deserve to lose her job over this? Absolutely not.


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> What a surprise, the white nationalist supporter and/or also likely racist coming to defend another racist.
> I already explained myself, literally right there, so read instead of making up shitty strawmen.
> 
> 
> ...


Boy you've done a ton of "what if" without giving any proof. Seems to be a recurring theme in this forum. Again, go live in a third world country if you would like to live in a society where you're guilty until proven innocent.


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Ok? She couldn't just introduce herself to him and have a normal conversation like a normal person?
> Also nice goal post move


She...introduced herself to him. Have you seen all the video?


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## brickmii82 (Oct 16, 2018)

Her name is Brooke Mueller, and she is estranged from her husband Brandon Mueller who is black (half) also. He issued this statement in a Facebook video earlier.

Quoted from ABC News-

“As a man of color I have spent most of my professional career teaching others the importance of diversity and inclusion,” Mueller said. He hopes that the community will “not allow others ignorance to incite anger and hatred, but to use it as an opportunity to learn, grow, and promote love.”

Source-https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-fired-video-shows-blocking-black-man-entering/story?id=58506023

Brandons FB page-https://www.facebook.com/bnmueller02?eid=ARCc68ilq38V1B5UPlK8BqwD416859uf34bBKOhyD2yxWddshlcN9JZyXPHLLdkl4rkgmgy71VrMFbDN


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## kuwanger (Oct 16, 2018)

I think if a person demanded I show them my key that I'd probably show it to them to avoid the hassle of that crazy person.  I also think that if I didn't show that key because I wanted to be a jackass, their stopping me from entering, following me to my door, and then calling the police on me after I use my key to open the door to my apartment that they're a much bigger jackass.  Whether that translates to "racist" or "deserves to lose their job"?  No idea on the specification motivation on the former but if the job in the latter is in any meaningful way one in which you have interactions with the public, then I wouldn't be surprised if you fired somehow who clearly shows incredibly poor judgment when interacting with the public.  If it was back room desk job?  No real reason to fire her, but it'd be hard not to condemn her behavior.

You see, everything up until the point that he opened the apartment door could be justified paranoia--although blocking the door is possibly illegal.  After that?  There's just no reason.  If anything, the police should have been called on her.


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## supersonicwaffle (Oct 16, 2018)

I have an anecdote because something similar happened to me in my teens.

We live in a German city and growing up we couldn't afford a house so my parents rented an allotment garden which they now have for over 20 years. (Don't know if this is a thing elsewhere so here's a wiki link (can't post links as a newer member look for allotment(gardening) on wikipedia)

When I was in my teens we were living really close to the garden and I was looking for my parents (it was a time before cell phones  ). They weren't at home, they weren't in their garden so I snooped around the neighbouring gardens to see whether they sat down with neighbours, I also checked the gardening clubhouse (yeah it's a thing).
I had to pass a lady that was working in her garden multiple times, her allotment was like the second or third next to my parents'. She was probably in her 70s at the time and when I was little she invited me over to pick cherries from her tree (tastiest cherries I have ever had in my life). Every time I passed her I said hi and gave a friendly nod.
So it turns out she didn't recognize me anymore and there have been instances of people climbing the fences of the gardens at night and breaking stuff recently. She stopped me and told me I had no business running around there. I calmly explained to her that I was just looking for my parents. She said that she knows all her neighbours children but she's never seen me. When I explained to her who my parents are and that I've just grown up since she invited me to pick cherries from her, she let me go but it was still awkward.

I'm white but my parents migrated to Germany well before I was born. Could've thought she was singling me out for that reason here.
In reality I acknowleged that she was looking out for herself and all of her neighbours. Even though it was an awkward situation I knew she meant well.

My parents own an apartment now. The way it works here in Germany is that you own a share in the building as well. If one of the people living there would stop and question me in this way while I was entering the building I'd calmly introduce myself as their neighbour's kid and not pull out a cellphone and start recording. I also realize that this is definitely a thing that could happen as neighbours are looking out for each other.

I've only seen the cut up video by abc from OP's link but from that it's absolutely disgusting to me that people jump to conclusions that it was purely racist. I feel like the situation looks so shitty because it could've easily been deescalated if the young gentleman had just introduced himself instead of not even telling the lady his unit number even though they live in the same building and then putting a phone in her face to record her.
Why is she not given the benefit of the doubt that she's just looking out for everyone in the building my potentially stopping someone who has no business there? Why do we have to bring race into this? How are some people so sure it wouldn't have happened if he was white?


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## Taleweaver (Oct 16, 2018)

I neither agree nor disagree on the racism part. Like with gender, the problem is that there is no way NOT to see someone's skin color. As such, each action that someone makes in regard to someone else might or might not be related to this trait. Likewise, the other one might or might not perceive the action as caused by the perception of this trait.

The problem, as I see it, is mostly that there is a lot of racism (gender discrimination as well, but let's keep that for another discussion). Because there is a lot of racism, people tend to be more aware of their skin color, or see that as the cause of the way an interation (any interaction) might be.

So what does this mean concrete? Miss Mueller clearly was worried that Toles was a burglar rather than a resident. As it turned out, that was a wrong assumption. It was also pretty dumb to confront someone like that, and it was ESPECIALLY dumb to call the police when he used his keys to enter his own place (the proper way would be to APOLOGIZE to him at that time for being overly paranoid).
On his end, he filmed it and ASSUMES her behavior is because he's black. He spreads the story with this assumption, after which the story continues its own path with that assumption as if it's a given truth.
However...it is not a given. It can be. But it can not be just as well. And the problem, as I see it, isn't so much in whether it is or isn't racism, but in the almost scary certainty of people on what Mueller was really thinking. What's wrong with just admitting that you don't know something? 

To give an abstract example: a math teacher writes on the blackboard: "A+7= ?". The correct behavior of the class would be "we can't know the answer". But I feel that if the participants in this thread would be in this classroom, about half would argue that the answer is 12 ("we had a situation where A was 5 just yesterday") and another half would claim it to be 7 ("A is undefined, and therefore doesn't have any value"). And rather than seeing the futility in attempting to argue to what amounts to incomplete information, both groups would undermine each other's ability to count ("what are you? Stupid? 5+7 is clearly 12 so therefore the answer is 12!").


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## The Catboy (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> She...introduced herself to him. Have you seen all the video?


I did and she didn't. He asked her to move and she started asking him what unit he lived in. She even followed him into the elevator and said, "I want to see who you are here to see." Implying she doesn't even believe he lives there. She even continued to accuse him even after he put his keys in his door. This was obvious racial profiling.


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## supersonicwaffle (Oct 16, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> I neither agree nor disagree on the racism part. Like with gender, the problem is that there is no way NOT to see someone's skin color. As such, each action that someone makes in regard to someone else might or might not be related to this trait. Likewise, the other one might or might not perceive the action as caused by the perception of this trait.
> 
> The problem, as I see it, is mostly that there is a lot of racism (gender discrimination as well, but let's keep that for another discussion). Because there is a lot of racism, people tend to be more aware of their skin color, or see that as the cause of the way an interation (any interaction) might be.
> 
> ...



Certainly an interesting viewpoint and I like your analogy with the math teacher.

I do, however, believe that just assuming malicious intent has set a dangerous precedent in recent times.
It has lead to a situation where people are afraid to speak up or criticize because they will be labeled as a *phobe, bigot, racist or nazi and that just isn't right.

I feel like that when people make an argument to not just assume this situation happened because of racism that they're making an argument to be more civil and kind. I would imagine this situation could've totally been defused in a number of ways but the young gentleman's first instinct was to assume racism and things escalated from there.


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## YetoJesse (Oct 16, 2018)

yay, promoting racism again. 

Easiest part for humanity is assuming an event happens because the topic runs hot...

The following are assumptions happening right now in general with person A being the man and person B is the woman (lack of explanation due to formentioned racist assumptions).:

A is a dark colored male and B is a light colored female: It must be racism.
A is a light colored male and B is a light colored female: It must be an extremist feminist.
A is a light colored female and B is a light colored male: it must be sexism.
A is a light colored female and B is a dark colored male: "What is even happening here? counter racism??"

I can go on and on about this.
It's not safe for US to assume anything because YOU assume something. 

Nevertheless leaves us with following problem: Media shows us said example is the light colored female being racist to the dark colored male. 
If so than why does the female follow the male alone, gets into the elevator alone with him and walk with him all the way to his front door. 

Is it weird if I come with the statement: "Hey, it just seems that she found one penis she hasn't shared the bed with in her appartment"?


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## supersonicwaffle (Oct 16, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I did and she didn't.



Honest question: can you provide a link to the original footage? I made an effort to find it, I found a 4:30 minute long video that still has two cuts in it.



Lilith Valentine said:


> He asked her to move and she started asking him what unit he lived in. She even followed him into the elevator and said, "I want to see who you are here to see." Implying she doesn't even believe he lives there.



And when he said he was going to his place she says: "I would like to introduce myself as a neighbour then"

Edit: While in the elevator she also says that she's not trying to be disrespectful or rude, she says that it's also fine that he records everything.



Lilith Valentine said:


> She even continued to accuse him even after he put his keys in his door.



In the video that I've found this isn't the case although there was a cut right before he put the keys in the door. After he says "You just followed me all the way to my door and you see my keys in the door" she replied "for the record I just wanted to say hi"



Lilith Valentine said:


> This was obvious racial profiling.



I can't understand how you conclude that from the argument you make. Could you please clarify?


Edit: I would've provided links to the video I found but I can't post links yet


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## Deleted member 412537 (Oct 16, 2018)

Lately, decent people of African American descent have been using their phones to film what occurs within earshot. This has been happening because they're trying to provide evidence involved in being stalked, then confronted for doing basic things, which are sadly flagged as suspicious or criminal inducing activity by others. However, the accusers, figuratively dressed up in more modern super man/woman outfit, are not the police.  (Does George Zimmerman ring a bell?)

For example, one video on the internet has a man being asked some questions by a male police officer. The accuser was a passerby that believed the defendant kidnapped two white children in broad daylight. So if I follow the formula that some users go by in this thread, the lady was "doing the right thing" by keeping an eye on him until making her next move to sick the cops on him till much later. (Apparently the confused fellow was actually their babysitter for the day.) 

Basically, this method DOES work to help uncover different types of stupidity which is often shrouded in pure misunderstandings.

Alright then. Before I wrap this up, if the guy did acquire the key through illegal methods, you may shoot me with a water gun.


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## seany1990 (Oct 16, 2018)

Yes its obviously racist.
Whats the average age of this thread? 12?


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

seany1990 said:


> Yes its obviously racist.
> Whats the average age of this thread? 12?


How was it racist? There is no evidence that what she did was race based. I'm not saying that she isn't secretly racist but for one she had a husband that was black and two she only asked about a key and such. It was messed up but there is no proof.


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## CORE (Oct 16, 2018)

She was not being racist but nosy and paranoid and a general pain in the ass.


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## YetoJesse (Oct 16, 2018)

seany1990 said:


> Yes its obviously racist.
> Whats the average age of this thread? 12?



Seeing as instantly your first grab is racism, probably due to the fact that you read the title (White female blocking black male's path) or the fact that you're so media infused that everything interracial conflict is instant racism, tells me yes.

I wonder if a white male would even bother grabbing his phone to film this and post this as a 'Feminazi' thing...


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## DinohScene (Oct 16, 2018)

Dumb sensational bullshit, why are you people bickering over this?
Does this really deserve a thread here?


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## supersonicwaffle (Oct 16, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> Dumb sensational bullshit, why are you people bickering over this?
> Does this really deserve a thread here?



This is an interesting reaction. 
The woman did loser her job over this.
I think the thread has value even if it's just to iform people on the new rules on how to keep a job.


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## The Catboy (Oct 16, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Honest question: can you provide a link to the original footage? I made an effort to find it, I found a 4:30 minute long video that still has two cuts in it.
> 
> *Ignoring the watermarks and the rest of the video, there doesn't appear to be any other edits.*
> 
> ...


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## MasterJ360 (Oct 16, 2018)

This might sound silly to some, but I feel like she had a crush on the guy. Ya know some girls can do strange things to get attention. I'm not sold on the 
"I was afraid bit" b/c if she really was afraid for her life she wouldn't have followed him all the way to his door. The claim doesn't fit the glass slippers here she simply was caught up in a heated moment and couldn't find a way to escape the mess she started.


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> Dumb sensational bullshit, why are you people bickering over this?
> Does this really deserve a thread here?


People are allowed to discuss any topics that they may want. If you're going to take down a post and say it's due to racism you should explain how it was racist.


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## DinohScene (Oct 16, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> This is an interesting reaction.
> The woman did loser her job over this.
> I think the thread has value even if it's just to iform people on the new rules on how to keep a job.



If you want to keep your job then either don't say a word and just do your job and don't do dumb things.
If you lose your job over something as silly as this then that job isn't worth it.

If it was up to me this thread would've been shoved in the bin as it will devolve into a shitfest of left and right wing fools flaming at each other.
Speaking of which, anyone who devolves this thread into said flame war deserves a suspension.
Do not derail it, you all have been warned!

Edit: 


PanTheFaun said:


> People are allowed to discuss any topics that they may want. If you're going to take down a post and say it's due to racism you should explain how it was racist.



You have been reposting a rather racist image that another mod has deleted prior.
Mod actions are not up for debate.


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## The Catboy (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> She...introduced herself to him. Have you seen all the video?


I actually had to watch the video again with headphones because I am mostly deaf in real life and the video was rather hard for me to hear. That being said, it wasn't like, "Hey! names Jeff, How you doing today?" She did it in a rather defensive manor and as an attempt to get him to "introduce himself." There's a lot of actions she did in the video that only show her as being both passive aggressive and literally aggressive towards him for just trying to get to him home.
If this wasn't racially motivated, it was still an extremely unnecessary thing to happen to someone just trying to get to his home. She had no business harassing him nor stalking him.


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I actually had to watch the video again with headphones because I am mostly deaf in real life and the video was rather hard for me to hear. That being said, it wasn't like, "Hey! names Jeff, How you doing today?" She did it in a rather defensive manor and as an attempt to get him to "introduce himself." There's a lot of actions she did in the video that only show her as being both passive aggressive and literally aggressive towards him for just trying to get to him home.
> If this wasn't racially motivated, it was still an extremely unnecessary thing to happen to someone just trying to get to his home. She had no business harassing him nor stalking him.


I agree that it was wrong. Nobody should have to be stopped or feel uneasy going to their own home but like I have said before I don't see the racism.


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> Dumb sensational bullshit, why are you people bickering over this?
> Does this really deserve a thread here?


Because a woman has lost a job for something that is nowhere to be seen in this viral video. A life ruined because of an accusation with no evidence. Yes, her behavior could be considered as bitchy, but there was no racism. Yet she has lost her job because of "racism". This is so fucked up that yes, it deserves a thread.


EDIT: by the way, this wasn't deleted yet. Really makes you wonder if the whole "don't flame" is only directed to one side.


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Because a woman has lost a job for something that is nowhere to be seen in this viral video. A life ruined because of an accusation with no evidence. Yes, her behavior could be considered as bitchy, but there was no racism. Yet she has lost her job because of "racism". This is so fucked up that yes, it deserves a thread.


I always thought a person was innocent until proven guilty? I guess it doesn't work that way anymore.


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## DinohScene (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Because a woman has lost a job for something that is nowhere to be seen in this viral video. A life ruined because of an accusation with no evidence. Yes, her behavior could be considered as bitchy, but there was no racism. Yet she has lost her job because of "racism". This is so fucked up that yes, it deserves a thread.
> 
> 
> EDIT: by the way, this wasn't deleted yet. Really makes you wonder if the whole "don't flame" is only directed to one side.



If you want me honest opinion about the situation then you'd be surprised.
Or perhaps you might have seen it from a mile away if you know me well.

As for your linked content.
Report and it shall be dealt with.
I'm not the only mod on this site you know.


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> If you want me honest opinion about the situation then you'd be surprised.
> Or perhaps you might have seen it from a mile away if you know me well.
> 
> As for your linked content.
> ...


You asked if this news deserved a thread and I answered you. I also reported that post several hours ago.


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## DinohScene (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> You asked if this news deserved a thread and I answered you. I also reported that post several hours ago.



Again, I'm not the only mod on this site.
I was asleep several hours ago and another mod might have rejected it.


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## CORE (Oct 16, 2018)

A White Woman stopped a Black Man. Not a Woman stopped a Man. Listen to the News Anchor spreading Crap and inciting Nonsense.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 16, 2018)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Certainly an interesting viewpoint and I like your analogy with the math teacher.
> 
> I do, however, believe that just assuming malicious intent has set a dangerous precedent in recent times.
> It has lead to a situation where people are afraid to speak up or criticize because they will be labeled as a *phobe, bigot, racist or nazi and that just isn't right.
> ...


Hmm...I'm not sure I find anything wrong with assuming maliciousness. Or more precise: I do, but more in the general terms. Not too long ago, there were those...not as much commercials, but rather the "informative" kind. Unless that it wasn't about informing people of the hazards of alzheimer or heart diseases but rather to be wary of others. A general "be cautious". That obviously doesn't gel well if "being cautious" (what _could be_ what miss Mueller is about here) is being done wrong. But at the same time you can't tell people to be "less cautious" either. I mean...I remember a line from an action movie I once saw: "just how exactly does a 'suspicious truck' look like? ".

In my view, people shouldn't be afraid to speak up or criticize...well...anything. But they should be considerate. If it was Mueller's intention to find out if Toles really lived there, she could have worded things differently. If she didn't believe him, she should have said that. It's still not a pleasant experience - let's face it: there is no pleasant way to tell someone that you think they're a burglar - but at least she'd come across as an overly worried neighbor rather than a bigot or - indeed - a racist.


Oh...but I forgot to mention something: being fired for it is a bridge to far, as far as I'm concerned. Unless her employer knows more than is on the news, they too act on the basic assumption of racism. And that indeed goes against the very principle of "innocent until proven guilty". Even if it is racism...the act of getting fired isn't helping anyone (heck...from that "positive waves of energy" comment of Toles, I take it that he didn't _that _to happen either). Rather the contrary.


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## kuwanger (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I always thought a person was innocent until proven guilty? I guess it doesn't work that way anymore.



Missouri is an "at will" employment State, like most States in the US.  That means a person can be fired for any reason or no reason, short of a short list of protected classes/reasons.  So, yes, you can literally chose to fire someone because they're innocent.  If you don't like this, perhaps you should lobby against "at will" employment?


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## supersonicwaffle (Oct 16, 2018)

Thank you for your reply.




			
				Lilith Valentine said:
			
		

> *Ignoring the watermarks and the rest of the video, there doesn't appear to be any other edits.*



Thank you. This one has the same edits / cuts as the one that I was watching which was posted by NBC. There's a pretty blatant edit with a rotating effect when he opens the door. I'm not trying to imply things but I'd be very interested in the unedited footage.



			
				Lilith Valentine said:
			
		

> *Expect she is being extremely rude by literally trying to say that he doesn't live there, then trying to impose onto him the entire time she's stalking him. She's literally stalking him as he's trying to get to his place, that's trying to say he doesn't live at. Her saying it was fine that he was recording her doesn't mean anything.*



Well I do think context matters and that we have very little. As I'm from Germany I don't know about apartment complexes and how they're laid out in the US and how well people living within the building know each other. We also don't know whether there's been any problems with people entering just as someone was leaving.
I've personally been in a situation where someone tried to enter a house in this manner that we were living in, pretending to be a chimney sweeper. Only our landlord's family and we were living in the house, we denied entry and after talking to our landlord later on that day he said there was no way it could've been their regular chimney sweeper, we've all been genuinely worried for a while after this.
When I was living with my parents in an apartment building there were also sales representatives entering the building in this way and they would ring on everyone's door which most of the residents felt was annoying.



			
				Lilith Valentine said:
			
		

> *So an extremely snarky comment means what? She wasn't trying to say hi nor was she trying to be polite at the end. That being said, being "polite" (because she wasn't being polite) doesn't mean anything compared to her actions. She stopped him, then harassed him, and then stalked him.*



I don't know, I don't even want to interpret whether she was polite, impolite, snarky or whatever. Some people are weird and it can lead to genuine misunderstandings. What I do believe though is that this whole situation could've been defused if both talked to each other like neighbours living in the same building instead of randrom strangers somewhere in the street.



			
				Lilith Valentine said:
			
		

> *I watched a video of a woman randomly blocking a dude and then literally stalk him to his home for literally no logical reason outside of the obvious reason, which is that it was racially motivated based on her actions.*



Ok I think I understand you better now, although I do have to disagree.
I watched a video of a woman who tried to block a dude she doesn't know going into the building she lives in as she opened the door. To me, that's the obvious logical reason and I just can't make a logical connection to "because he's black", maybe because that would be such a non-factor to me.
Mind you we couldn't see their inital interaction, it surely took him at least some time to whip out his phone and hit record. He also absolutely did not try to deescalate, did not introduce himself, refused to reveal which unit he lives in, refused to confirm he does have a working keycard / transponder and then (if she is to be believed, you can barely make it out in the video) he pushed his way in. I'd be hard pressed to say I would not be suspicious at this point.

TBH I just chalk this situation up to two people having a bad day


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Missouri is an "at will" employment State, like most States in the US.  That means a person can be fired for any reason or no reason, short of a short list of protected classes/reasons.  So, yes, you can literally chose to fire someone because they're innocent.  If you don't like this, perhaps you should lobby against "at will" employment?


You feel better now? You done? I'm not talking about her losing her job but her being considered racist when there is no proof.


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## kuwanger (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I'm not talking about her losing her job but her being considered racist when there is no proof.



Racism isn't a crime, so you can't be "guilty" of being racist.  Nor can you be "innocent" of being racist for that matter.  If your complaint is merely that she is being ill described, then I'd guess you're a big support of the LGTBQ movement?  I'd also guess you're against the heavy misuse of the terms "IslamoFasicst", "Socialism", and "Fake News"?


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## DeadlyFoez (Oct 16, 2018)

I am quite disgusted and disappointing in what I have read in the comments! So many of you are jumping on the bandwagon of assumption here. What this woman did what to try to keep things safe for everyone in the building. She never made any mention of race, and race has nothing to do with it.

Picture yourself in her situation. You live in a big condo/apartment complex. There is already an issue and concern of people who do not belong in the building consistently sneaking in to break into units to steal shit. You are on your way to leave the building to walk your dog and there is a person waiting by one of the non-main entrances. As soon as you open the door to leave, this person tries to go into the building.

Yes. That seems sketchy. Doesn't matter the skin color. The person was not already using their key or keyfob to try to enter the building, instead they waiting until someone was leaving so they could get by the already open door. That is exactly what criminals do.

When you live in a building like that, the safety of everyone is everyones concern! She had never seen this person before. All he had to do was just show some sort of proof, like the keyfob or the key, like she requested, and the situation would have been over and done with. He decided to make an issue out of it, resist, and make it more difficult. It was a simple request.

If this dude was a criminal then she certainly put herself at risk to get attacked, stabbed, shot, or raped. She put aside all concerns of her own safety for the purpose of the safety of everyone else in the building. I APPLAUD THIS WOMAN. She was brave!

Too many people turn away these days saying "it is none of my business", but then bitch and complain when something bad happens to them and they say "Why didn't anyone step in and do something about this.

It is EVERYONE else saying this is about RACE... WHEN IT IS NOT!!!! Stop being like those feminist tumblr scum bags that want to jump on any SJW mob squad and start attacking people without a single hint of proof about the claims.

I would have done the same damn thing regardless of color, sex, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.


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## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Racism isn't a crime, so you can't be "guilty" of being racist.  Nor can you be "innocent" of being racist for that matter.  If your complaint is merely that she is being ill described, then I'd guess you're a big support of the LGTBQ movement?  I'd also guess you're against the heavy misuse of the terms "IslamoFasicst", "Socialism", and "Fake News"?


_Like I said it's innocent until proven guilty and yet people are already calling her a racist with no proof. I'm against something that can make someone lose their job without proof. I don't support the LGTBQ movement._


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## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Missouri is an "at will" employment State, like most States in the US.  That means a person can be fired for any reason or no reason, short of a short list of protected classes/reasons.  So, yes, you can literally chose to fire someone because they're innocent.  If you don't like this, perhaps you should lobby against "at will" employment?


The "at will" employment doesn't cover decisions taken illegally. Judging by the company's website, it's very clear that they acknowledge her being racist and want nothing to do with it. This is slander and it is illegal.


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## CORE (Oct 16, 2018)

Everyone is an (_ist) nowadays._


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## kuwanger (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Responsible for or chargeable with a reprehensible act; deserving of blame



Racism isn't an act.  Nor is one inherently deserving of blame for being racist.  One would be "guilty" of an act that is motivated by racism for the act itself.



Song of storms said:


> The "at will" employment doesn't cover decisions taken illegally. Judging by the company's website, it's very clear that they acknowledge her being racist and want nothing to do with it. This is slander and it is illegal.



Uh, again, only protected classes/reasons (not including contracts) are covered under illegal terminations in "at will" employment.  Slandering her would be a basis for her to sue them, but them being wrong or slandering a person doesn't magically make the termination illegal.


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## DinohScene (Oct 16, 2018)

And this is exactly why I hate this section.
GG temp.


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