# I hate game trailers



## 3bbb7 (Nov 29, 2012)

I always watch game trailers to see what the game is about but most of them are cutscenes or videos that have no gameplay in it.

i only watch them for the gameplay to see what its like ...

Anyone else hate this too ?


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## Arm73 (Nov 29, 2012)

I usually go to youtube, and search for " gameX consoleX gameplay " , and I'm never disappointed.
As for gametrailers...they have some interestinf stuff like pachattack and Angry Videogame Nerd's episodes.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 30, 2012)

Yeahhhh I avoid trailers like the damn plague. Useless crap. I do what Arm73 does, I just go to youtube and search for gamename and "gameplay". Usually get tons of results. Worst comes to worst, you could also sit through an LP for a bit to see gameplay...but they can be pretty annoying.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 30, 2012)

Eh, I see nothing wrong with trailers really.

Not every trailer has to be a gameplay trailer nor would I ever want that. Gameplay nowadays hardly makes a game. Games have evolved to a point where gameplay is just one piece of a larger puzzle. Trailers need to show off story, environment, music, just as much as they need to the gameplay. Of course if depends on game to game and gameplay trailers are necessary, but they do what they're designed to do. Not entirely inform you about the game but get you interested.

Nowadays, there's demos and tons of Let's Plays and walkthroughs that trailers are designed to get you interested and let you do the rest.

If you want a good example of a good trailer...



Not only does it show off some gameplay, but it lays a basic story down and show you some breathtaking moments. Like I would never be sold on a game about Raiden (being the annoying emo cunt character he is) unless it was this trailer. Seeing this crazy shit happening and the utter scale of it all made this my most anticipated game of next year.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 30, 2012)

Arm73 said:


> I usually go to youtube, and search for " gameX consoleX gameplay " , and I'm never disappointed.
> As for gametrailers...they have some interestinf stuff like pachattack and Angry Videogame Nerd's episodes.


 
He's not talking about GameTrailers the site. Also, Pachter is a fucking idiot and anybody who thinks he's smart is an even bigger idiot.


@OP: Some trailers aren't bad. I mean for some games, you already know what the gameplay is like, so a gameplay trailer isn't really needed.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 30, 2012)

There used to be a distinction between a Trailer and a Teaser - remember those days? Y'know - with Trailers being gameplay footage with little to no cutscenes and some text overlays and Teasers being CG animation only, usually from future cutscenes, that was supposed to, y'know, tease you into being interested in the game? Those were the days... 

What I don't like about Trailers nowadays is not so much that they merge the two ideas into one - it's actually the fact that the gameplay footage is often doctored to look better or originates from early builds of the game with scenes that were made to look good for the sake of putting them in the trailer, later to be modified or scrapped in the final product.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> There used to be a distinction between a Trailer and a Teaser - remember those days? Y'know - with Trailers being gameplay footage with little to no cutscenes and some text overlays and Teasers being CG animation only, usually from future cutscenes, that was supposed to, y'know, tease you into being interested in the game? Those were the days...
> 
> What I don't like about Trailers nowadays is not so much that they merge the two ideas into one - it's actually the fact that the gameplay footage is often doctored to look better or originates from early builds of the game with scenes that were made to look good for the sake of putting them in the trailer, later to be modified or scrapped in the final product.


 
I can only think of one trailer that has both teaser and trailer into it, and the other being a teaser that I wish was in the game:


And just the teaser (which I think would make a kick ass movie):


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## BORTZ (Nov 30, 2012)

It doesnt really bother me all that much.


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## Daniel Carville (Nov 30, 2012)

Game trailers are extremely annoying these days, and honestly, if a trailer DOES include gameplay, I feel more interested in it, regardless of how good the gameplay really is.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 1, 2012)

Arm73 said:


> I usually go to youtube, and search for " gameX consoleX gameplay " , and I'm never disappointed.
> As for gametrailers...they have some interestinf stuff like pachattack and Angry Videogame Nerd's episodes.


This.

I flat out avoid any trailers, teasers and what have you. I honestly don't care how well they can pull off cutscènes: at best, I watch them once, thinking "when do I get to do some stuff?". The gameplay itself is what matters to me.


Guild McCommunist said:


> ...Gameplay nowadays hardly makes a game. Games have evolved to a point where gameplay is just one piece of a larger puzzle. Trailers need to show off story, environment, music, just as much as they need to the gameplay. Of course if depends on game to game and gameplay trailers are necessary, but they do what they're designed to do. Not entirely inform you about the game but get you interested.


I can see your position. However, I disagree on all these points (okay, aside from the "trailers are designed to get you interested" part...it's just not working for me).


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## Arm73 (Dec 1, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> He's not talking about GameTrailers the site. Also,* Pachter is a fucking idiot and anybody who thinks he's smart is an even bigger idiot*.
> 
> 
> @OP: Some trailers aren't bad. I mean for some games, you already know what the gameplay is like, so a gameplay trailer isn't really needed.





ShadowSoldier said:


> Donkey Kong and Zelda I want. I'll obviously buy the Mario game too. Maybe Yoshi game depending on what it's like.
> 
> *Also, you're all stupid*. Star Fox? Really? How about another F-Zero game. That's an instant buy for me.


 
You seem to have an slightly angry management problem here.......
If by implying that whoever doesn't share your beliefs/opinion is just a f* stupid, retarded, moron etc.. then by all means, go ahead and call everybody stupid if that makes you feel better.

I kind of like watching Pach Attack episodes, I guess I have to admit I'm the biggest idiot.


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## ShadowSoldier (Dec 1, 2012)

Arm73 said:


> You seem to have an slightly angry management problem here.......
> If by implying that whoever doesn't share your beliefs/opinion is just a f* stupid, retarded, moron etc.. then by all means, go ahead and call everybody stupid if that makes you feel better.
> 
> I kind of like watching Pach Attack episodes, I guess I have to admit I'm the biggest idiot.


 
Jokes dude, dont take the net so seriously -__-


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## Arm73 (Dec 1, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Jokes dude, dont take the net so seriously -__-


 
OK, no offense taken.
Cheers dude...


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Not every trailer has to be a gameplay trailer nor would I ever want that. Gameplay nowadays hardly makes a game.


If all you play is AAA FPS/RPG titles on consoles than yeah the trailer's not showing you much... because there's not much to know other than "the new modern big-name FPS/RPG is coming out now".

But what about something where the gameplay is actually the focus?  Those things exist, you know.

What about those tens of thousands of games with no cutscenes?  Is it better they make up things to show, or just show gameplay?


How would a cutscene show off an MMO?  The focus is often user interaction and the gameplay, not the few cutscenes there are.


What sort of cutscenes define the game in the latest Mario platformer?  We all know the basic story, but want to see the game.
I agree that most game commercials and trailers not showing the actual game is annoying, and I second going to youtube to find gameplay videos.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

I would like someone to point me to the general time range when trailers weren't like they are now. I keep hearing "OH IT'S JUST STUPID MODERN GAMING TRAILERS" but there's probably a huge wealth of factors that make trailers the way they are today. Rise in industry equates to higher production values, more cinematic storytelling, and the use of Youtube all influences trailers greatly.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

They're copying movie trailers, when it's a different type of product.


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## pwsincd (Dec 1, 2012)

Even a movie trailer throws you off the scent , making you think that the film looks worth a see , when infact they have shown you all the good stuff in a 2 min trailer.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

Rydian said:


> They're copying movie trailers, when it's a different type of product.


 
Perhaps because gaming is becoming a lot about spectacle and experience rather than levels?

It's not even a criticism, gameplay is hardly the deciding factor in a game nowadays.

They have trailers that show story, trailers that show gameplay, trailers that show every little aspect about a game. I really think trailers are better and more diverse than ever before.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Perhaps because gaming is becoming a lot about spectacle and experience rather than levels?


The point is the difference between the content.  If you took something like Mass Effect 2 and reduced it to nothing but the cutscenes, you'd have a movie instead of a game.  This is how most trailers for games nowadays depict it, which is the problem.

Here's the official trailer for the latest WoW expansion.



You see those graphics?  *That's not what the actual game's graphics are like.*
You see that combat?  *That's not the combat that's in the actual game.*

Notice that nowhere do they show anything from the game.  No actual game content is shown, it's all pre-rendered cutscenes.  You can't even tell it's an MMO from just the trailer.

The commercials they're showing on TV for the expansion are the same thing.  All of them are pre-rendered custscenes, nowhere is the game itself shown.



Guild McCommunist said:


> It's not even a criticism, gameplay is hardly the deciding factor in a game nowadays.


I don't know what sort of planet you live on, but games that have no cutscenes at all are out there, there's thousands of them, and some of them are the best selling games of all time.  However even these games, when it comes time for a commercial, present pre-rendered cutscenes (often of things that don't even exist in-game).



Guild McCommunist said:


> They have trailers that show story, trailers that show gameplay, trailers that show every little aspect about a game. I really think trailers are better and more diverse than ever before.


I don't know what sort of trailers you've seen, but *that's false*, which is the point of this thread.  The majority (by far) of trailers nowadays focus on cutscenes and little to no explanation of what the game actually is.  In fact there's some major ones out there that show *nothing from the actual game itself*, 

What if movie commercials never showed anything from the movie?


What if a vacuum commercial never actually showed the vacuum?


What if a Wendy's commercial never actually showed any of the food?


What if a commercial for a training program never showed any of the training, or any people that had taken the course?
All this shit would be stupid, right?  Borderline false advertising?  But no, AAA/console game devs do it, so it's fine...

That's the problem.  Accepting this sort of stupid decisions because it's what other companies do?  *That's stagnation.*


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## pasc (Dec 1, 2012)

I got to admit: Those Gametrailer Countdowns were actually interesing.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

WoW is a rather poor example. It doesn't really sell based on its gameplay. I actually don't know why it sells. But when they make expansions, they know what they're selling to: people who still play WoW or previously played WoW. For anyone who hasn't, it just gets them interested in the universe.

It's also a MMO and would you really love to see a trailer of a taskbar and some mindless mashing of it? MMOs are incredibly boring by their nature, even when they show the gameplay it's just ever-so-skewed to make it look fun.

I'd like you to show me a game with no cutscenes that has purely cinematic based trailers.

I don't see games trying to falsely draw in their customers by completely keep gameplay under wraps and just going "LOOK AT THESE CINEMATICS!" We live in an age where if we want to try a game, we can download a demo. They make trailers for the game's story and some key gameplay but so much of the press is done by sites like IGN who will do a longer playthrough or feed of the game.

There's simply no need for every trailer to be gameplay focused. And I can hardly think of a single game that hasn't even bothered producing a gameplay trailer or releasing some sort of gameplay press.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I don't see games trying to falsely draw in their customers by completely keep gameplay under wraps and just going "LOOK AT THESE CINEMATICS!"


this one begs to differ.


When I saw that, I honestly thought it was something thrown together by anti-video game groups in an attempt to show how pathetic modern gamers really are.


On the plus side...they can recycle that same clip for about half the spunkgarbleweewee modern warfare games. All they have to do is replace the last ten seconds with the cover of a different one.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

Again, trailers are completely different. There's plenty of trailers or press released videos showcasing the gameplay. Also it's CoD, you know what you're buying.

My point is that not every trailer needs to be gameplay as much as every trailer doesn't need to be cinematic. Each trailer achieves a different purpose but I've never seen a game completely falsely advertise its content with every trailer.

Also, to be fair, that live action trailer does show off some new gadgets in the game and highlight the multiplayer of CoD. Nowadays a trailer doesn't need to sell everything about the game to you, it's to get you interested in it and information is only a Google away.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

The complaint isn't that trailers don't "focus on" the gameplay, it's when trailers don't show any gameplay whatsoever.

The trailers are certainly geared to get people excited/interested, and do show the concept of the world... like this one.

But again, all cinematics, no _game_.  Is it an enclosed FPS game like CoD?  A stealth-based game like Splinter Cell?  A free-world roaming game like GTA?  Or is it a cinematics-choices game like Don Bluth's ones?

And that's not even getting into ones like this.

Again, the basic concept is shown, but they don't show the actual product that we, as customers, will be interacting with.


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## Daniel Carville (Dec 1, 2012)

Videogames are being treated more and more like movies.
For example, a unit of my college course is studying what makes a videogame story, and despite the tutor being really into videogames, is teaching how to write a story in general, not in relation to videogames, but more like books or films.
Videogames can show the same story that a movie/novel can, but if you're going to play a videogame JUST for the story, isn't there something wrong here? Aren't you playing it for the gameplay?

Trailers try to capitalize on the fact that videogames have movie-like stories, and I can't help but feel that they're marketing to the wrong audience.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

With movie trailers you're at least seeing clips of the actual product.  Sometimes with game trailers, it's scenes that literally made up for the commercial/trailer.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

But there's other trailers that do show gameplay. Some inform you on the story, some the setting, some the gameplay. They each have different projects.

I'd be upset if a game had nothing in all its trailers but cinematics, but that's hardly ever the case. Plus with game demos, Let's Plays, and tons of press releases showcasing gameplay demos, why do we need trailers for them anymore?


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'd be upset if a game had nothing in all its trailers but cinematics, but that's hardly ever the case.


"Hardly ever"?  I just embedded three for recent games, and one of those games is being advertised on TV like that.



Guild McCommunist said:


> Plus with game demos, Let's Plays, and tons of press releases showcasing gameplay demos, why do we need trailers for them anymore?


"Why should commercials show you the actual product when you can just google it", really?

The point of a commercial is to convince a customer to buy a product or service, and this is generally done by showing the actual product or service.

Are games nowadays such *shit* that they dare not be shown on TV or something?


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

Were gaming commercials "back in the day" just so much better?

Like I hear people hail some day way back when all the trailers just showed gameplay but I'd like to see actual examples. We live in the age where we're persuaded to research topics ourselves. It's the whole mentality of viral marketing and teaser trailers. You go "What is this?" and find out yourself. It's not necessarily bad, it's what we do. We don't live in some world where information is so scarce that we have to analyze any little bit of it. When a trailer gets you interested, you have the tools to find everything out about the game you want.

I'd be concerned if, for one specific game, no trailer showed gameplay, no press talked about gameplay, and there was no actual knowledge of gameplay, but that doesn't happen.


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## PettingZoo (Dec 1, 2012)

Rydian said:


> "Hardly ever"? I just embedded three for recent games, and one of those games is being advertised on TV like that.
> 
> "Why should commercials show you the actual product when you can just google it", really?
> 
> ...


 


I really don't see what you're getting at here, video game trailers and video game consoles have always had stylistic trailers/teasers/commercials that don't show the product/gameplay. Go look at some of the Playstation 2 commercials (particularly the ones done by David Lynch) or some early Playstation 3 commercials.

Why bother putting in time and effort into making a great stylish trailer for a game when you could just record gameplay right? Or why bother putting together a great ad for any product when you could just spend time filming it at a couple different angles as they are and show that to people.

That Hitman: Absolution trailer gives you a peak into the story of the game where it indicates that the Agency is coming after you and that you're taking care of some teenage girl. It's a launch trailer, something to show the fans that hitman is back, or to show new viewers that there's a new stealthy video game coming out.

It isn't because "games nowadays are such shit" it's the fact that an ad may peak someones interest or at least give you a run down of what the game is about. Throwing gameplay at someone probably wouldn't hook them or get you that interested in the game, since you probably don't know what any of it means.

*tl;dr*
Video game trailers and pretty much advertisements in general have been the same for many, many years since they were created. Please get off your high horse, you're not some visionary who has discovered video game commercials don't always include gameplay.


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## Nah3DS (Dec 1, 2012)

AVGN and the retrospectives are the only things worthy of my time on that shitty site


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Were gaming commercials "back in the day" just so much better?


HI, WELCOME TO THE THREAD.

Sonic 3


Streets Of Rage


Super Mario 64


Super Smash Bros.


F-Zero


Metal Gear Solid


Back then they showed the actual product.

Hell, even in the PSX era where FMVs became a major selling point, they were at least showing clips of FMVs _from the game_.


The above video can be thought of as a good example of the halfway point, actually... this is before they started just making stuff up for commercials.



PettingZoo said:


> I really don't see what you're getting at here, video game trailers and video game consoles have always had stylistic trailers/teasers/commercials that don't show the product/gameplay. Go look at some of the Playstation 2 commercials (particularly the ones done by David Lynch) or some early Playstation 3 commercials.


"Always", "playstation 2", "playstation 3".  Hahahahha!

Hate to break it to you, but video games and video game advertising is a lot older than that.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

PettingZoo said:


> *tl;dr*
> Video game trailers and pretty much advertisements in general have been the same for many, many years since they were created.


Bullshit.

See: My above post (which was posted before you finished this post I'm quoting).

Video game commercials HAVE been doing the whole "let's try to sell a product but never actually show it" crap for years now, but they've been around a lot longer, and in the older days they actually showed gameplay (I posted multiple examples).

"The last few years" is true (and that's the issue), but "always" is not.



PettingZoo said:


> Please get off your high horse, you're not some visionary who has discovered video game commercials don't always include gameplay.


No, I'm somebody that didn't just get into gaming in the PS2 era.

I seem haughty because I'm surprised you all seriously believe that the modern commercial bullshit is _normal and acceptable_.


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## Gahars (Dec 1, 2012)

Game ads that show no gameplay are nothing new.

You can make the comparison to film, but I don't think that's really fair; film lends itself better to advertisements and trailers while games (especially games today) are a far more complex beast. There's more elements you have to convey in a relatively short time span. Plus, just showing gameplay doesn't necessarily convey if it's fun or how it's fun; that sort of thing is difficult to express without putting the controller in a person's hand.

Tailoring trailers to focus on the cinematics, introducing the concept, story, or general themes, in order to spark the viewer's interest is a sensible, economic approach.


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## PettingZoo (Dec 1, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> See: My above post (which was posted before you finished this post I'm quoting).
> 
> ...


 
But *modern* video game trailers/commercials *do* happen to show gameplay.











and there are some much older video game trailers that don't feature any gameplay, hell not really anything related to the game apart from the character.



It's quite obvious that video game advertising has been around a lot longer than the Playstation 2 (the fact I was using it as an example was that their commercials are well known), and no it wasn't how I was introduced to video gaming as you imply. You could have even taken one look at my avatar.

They have done this for many years, it's true. But it also is not an issue at all, it works well. Could you have gotten it through your mind the fact that they run multiple different commercials? or that perhaps gameplay may not be finalized for advertisement? or that they have a different schedule for releasing trailers?

One more this 'modern commercial bullshit' is not bullshit, it is fine, it's a much more creative process than zany live action commercials cut together with edgy music and short snippets of gameplay. This way we get to see a more creative view of the game and what it is about. So yes, please get off of your "Old commercials are amazing, new modern commercials are a bullshit cancer" high horse.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

I consider commercials for a product that don't show the actual product (instead showing stuff you don't get) to be misleading.  This shit wouldn't fly with other products, why do we let it fly with videogames?
Yes, I can always go look up gameplay videos on youtube (and often am required to to see the actual product), but I shouldn't be required to do that to actually SEE what's being sold.

EDIT: The above was in response to Gahars, the below is to the post above mine (I was slow it seems).

Congrats, you've realized that the black and white view of "commercials have always been this way" isn't true. 

I'm not saying that there aren't any commercials that no longer show gameplay, nor was the OP.

The concern is the change in the ratio.  In the old days, most commercials showed the product.  Nowadays, a large number don't than do.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

I'd also like to point out in an age where the internet is so prevalent and Youtube is a household name that a single trailer rarely needs to accomplish every purpose.

That's why we have "story trailers" and "gameplay trailers".


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## PettingZoo (Dec 1, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I consider commercials for a product that don't show the actual product (instead showing stuff you don't get) to be misleading. This shit wouldn't fly with other products, why do we let it fly with videogames?
> 
> Yes, I can always go look up gameplay videos on youtube (and often am required to to see the actual product), but I shouldn't be required to do that to actually SEE what's being sold.


 
Again, you don't seem to have considered the fact that many of these trailers have been created before acceptable gameplay could be released (ie: Hitman: Absolution). And many of these trailers are released on the internet or over Xbox Live/Playstation Store (Where there are descriptions of the game, telling you if it's an rpg/fps/etc) and not broadcast on television. Even so many violent video games probably can't be aired on television (again Hitman, although I doubt that trailer itself was released anywhere but the internet).

If you're finding these ads oh so misleading, do you consider Axe/Lynx body spray ads misleading (making women crawl all over you)? do you consider that those old Nintendo commercials were misleading since you weren't flattened or were blown away by the TV?

Advertisements have never and will never always be a "what you see is what you get", they are to display the product in its essence (most but not all of the time displaying the product) or to accentuate what the product does or is about.



Rydian said:


> EDIT: The above was in response to Gahars.
> 
> Congrats, you've realized that the black and white view of "commercials have always been this way" isn't true.
> 
> ...


 
Then why describe them being such bullshit, it really doesn't matter. The ratio is perfectly fine, it probably just seems many cinematic trailers are more popular around the internet. I'd have to say the last video game commercial that I've seen in a long time that featured no gameplay was for Assasin's Creed 3, before then and till now though pretty much every game shown *aired on television* features gameplay.

EDIT: it really should have been stated earlier but trailers and advertisements for video games are two separate things really. Even more specific, launch trailers (ie: Hitman: Absolution, Halo2) and gameplay/regular trailers. Many video game advertisements on tv these days show gameplay and even sometimes show what outlet you'd be able to buy it from.

tl;dr
there are still advertisements with gameplay, but launch trailers are more prominent to not have gameplay since they're usually released quite early.


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## RodrigoDavy (Dec 1, 2012)

This one got only 3 secs of gameplay in the ending. Still think it is a pretty good commercial.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

PettingZoo said:


> Again, you don't seem to have considered the fact that many of these trailers have been created before acceptable gameplay could be released (ie: Hitman: Absolution).


In many industries, making a commercial for a product that doesn't exist is considered stupid.

Launch announcement videos (sequel announced at a con, etc.) are another story, but that's not what I'm talking about.  Guild mentioned this somewhat earlier in response to the Pandaria example, that expansion and sequel products are often aimed at the existing userbase (so some level of existing knowledge on the product can be assumed).

My concern is public trailers and commercials that get released with little to no context, often on TV.  The point of a commercial is to show a potential customer your product, and a lot of modern commercials don't show that.



PettingZoo said:


> If you're finding these ads oh so misleading, do you consider Axe/Lynx body spray ads misleading (making women crawl all over you)?


Those body spray commercials actually show the body spray and show it in use (often getting a closeup of the armpit or something, even).  The expected effects of a product aren't the concern here, commercials and advertisements have depicted unrealistic results since well before television ("snake oil" became a blanket term for a reason).


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## PettingZoo (Dec 1, 2012)

Rydian said:


> In many industries, making a commercial for a product that doesn't exist is considered stupid.
> 
> *Launch announcement videos (sequel announced at a con, etc.) are another story, but that's not what I'm talking about*.


 
Then why was Hitman: Absoluton mentioned earlier as a trailer without any gameplay substance, it was a launch trailer?




Rydian said:


> Guild mentioned this somewhat earlier in response to the Pandaria example, that expansion and sequel products are often aimed at the existing userbase (so some level of existing knowledge on the product can be assumed).
> 
> My concern is public trailers and commercials that get released with little to no context, often on TV. The point of a commercial is to show a potential customer your product, and a lot of modern commercials don't show that.


 
Well from watching the TV spot advertisements of MoP rather than that launch trailer there is a context of a new coming party to an ongoing fight. Also if you bothered to look at TV advertisements rather than launch trailers you'd notice that there is some ingame footage in the TV spots:



Although in rare cases where gameplay isn't shown I guess that many people are used to very high budget seeming CGI and some gameplay footage may seem much more unflattering than it may have back when those old SEGA/Nintendo commercials were created.


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## RodrigoDavy (Dec 1, 2012)

It does seem to be a problem with every type of propaganda, they usually distort the truth or gets to the point of lying.

The main point of a commercial is to draw the public attention and advertise the product as the solution for the products and by any possible mean.

One classic example related to games:



Ignore the blast processing part. Notice how they show lots of Mega Drive/Genesis game full screen and with lots of movement and when they show Snes's Super Mario Kart they just show the title screen for 2 secs and barely show the gameplay and didn't even focus properly the game or show it full screen like the sonic games. All this to make Sega's products look big and superior, and Nintendo's games look small and inferior. Is it ethic? Maybe not. Did it work? Apparently yes.


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## Rydian (Dec 1, 2012)

PettingZoo said:


> Then why was Hitman: Absoluton mentioned earlier as a trailer without any gameplay substance, it was a launch trailer?


I didn't know which one it was.  If it was a TV/launch trailer, than it did a shitty job at showing the product (since it didn't).



PettingZoo said:


> Well from watching the TV spot advertisements of MoP rather than that launch trailer there is a context of a new coming party to an ongoing fight.


Because that totally tells us a lot, right?  "A new side in a fight in a fantasy world" tells me shit about the product, that could be describing tons of things.  Hell, who's to say it's a game?  Could also be describing a movie, or (for some reason) a book.

They're not conveying the product clearly.



PettingZoo said:


> Also if you bothered to look at TV advertisements rather than launch trailers you'd notice that there is some ingame footage in the TV spots:


That's not the commercial showing on the TV here.  I can't find the exact one on youtube, but there's no game footage in it (it's a standard TV commercial so it's like 30 seconds and made up of various CG clips).



Is it really so bad that I expect commercials for a product to show the product?  I mean seriously guys.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 1, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Is it really so bad that I expect commercials for a product to show the product? I mean seriously guys.


 
It's WoW.

The answer is "Yes".


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## Veho (Dec 1, 2012)

I would argue that game commercials are much like beer commercials, they both tell you that using their product will let you have awesome adventures, thrills and excitement, they both try to show their users as hot young studs surrounded by lingerie models, neither of them gives any hint as to what it's actually like to use their product, and in most cases, the product is frankly pretty close to piss.  


Game trailers are ads and it is their duty to get you hyped and excited about the game and its fluff, and that means awesome cinematics, epic music and voiceovers in a manly baritone, and as little actual gameplay as possible because that would just detract from the message.


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## PettingZoo (Dec 2, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I didn't know which one it was. If it was a TV/launch trailer, than it did a shitty job at showing the product (since it didn't).


 
Well no it isn't doing a shitty job of advertising the product. They can't show gameplay footage of this product on TV since it's a god damn game where you're killing people, usually in a highly violent manner, it's pretty obvious that the launch trailer with the nuns wasn't aired on TV because of the blood, etc.



Here's a TV commercial of the game, notice there is combat but no blood/gore/ultra violence. They're showing off the premise of the game to the best of their ability that it's a stealth game, shit look at the title 'Hitman'. They're doing the best they can and it looks great.



Rydian said:


> Because that totally tells us a lot, right? "A new side in a fight in a fantasy world" tells me shit about the product, that could be describing tons of things. Hell, who's to say it's a game? Could also be describing a movie, or (for some reason) a book.
> 
> They're not conveying the product clearly.
> 
> That's not the commercial showing on the TV here. I can't find the exact one on youtube, but there's no game footage in it (it's a standard TV commercial so it's like 30 seconds and made up of various CG clips).


 
I really can't be bothered continuing this anymore due to your ignorance, but jesus of course they have more than one advertisement running and it isn't going to always show the same stuff. Your argument against WoW is ridiculous, it couldn't be a book or a movie since they show in game footage, how are you so oblivious to that? And yes they can get away with not including much of the gameplay footage since they already have an established user base, are well known, and besides the advertisement is aimed at existing consumers since it's an *expansion pack* (meaning you have to own all previous games to play it). I mean seriously I can't tell if you have aspergers or something to not understand that it seems to be some sort of new race/character/etc coming into the existing World of Warcraft, this signifies new content.



Rydian said:


> Is it really so bad that I expect commercials for a product to show the product? I mean seriously guys.


 
Movie trailers may not show you key points in the film but they do show you what type of movie it is since they don't want to spoil it, video games are doing the same and in many cases they do show gameplay footage when they can. If they showed every single aspect of the gameplay, there probably wouldn't be much left to discover when you play the game.

tl;dr

it's a different type of product, please stop nitpicking details with your autism.


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## Rydian (Dec 2, 2012)

PettingZoo said:


> Well no it isn't doing a shitty job of advertising the product. They can't show gameplay footage of this product on TV since it's a god damn game where you're killing people, usually in a highly violent manner, it's pretty obvious that the launch trailer with the nuns wasn't aired on TV because of the blood, etc.


I'm pretty sure the entire game isn't killing and gore, like 100% of the time.  There's going to be dialogue, non-violent cutscenes, story hints, all sorts of stuff they could focus on for the commercials.

I mean, if the game really is 100% bullets and blood without a break or any story or non-R dialogue every single second... that's gotta' be a world record. 

They manage to advertise rated-R movies on TV all the time by simply showing the bits of it that are safe for TV.  A game company should be capable of the same thing.



PettingZoo said:


> Here's a TV commercial of the game, notice there is combat but no blood/gore/ultra violence. They're showing off the premise of the game to the best of their ability that it's a stealth game, shit look at the title 'Hitman'. They're doing the best they can and it looks great.


That's the kind of idea I'm talking about.  Show the concept and story, give users an idea of what the product is about... but with footage from the game.

Why they feel the need to make up footage that's not in the actual product, I don't know.  What they're showing is not what you're buying.  They're showing you one thing and then selling you another.

Bait and switch, I think they call it?



PettingZoo said:


> I really can't be bothered continuing this anymore due to your ignorance, but jesus of course they have more than one advertisement running and it isn't going to always show the same stuff.


Multiple Pandaria commercials exist, but a couple of them (such as the one showing on TV here) don't show in-game footage.  I embedded an example.



PettingZoo said:


> Your argument against WoW is ridiculous, it couldn't be a book or a movie since they show in game footage, how are you so oblivious to that?


*The commercial I embedded and the commercial showing on TV here do not show in-game footage.*  Yes there's a trailer that shows in-game footage, but it's not the one being aired on TV from what I've seen (the one here and the one I embedded marked "commercial" from youtube, neither show in-game footage at all).



PettingZoo said:


> And yes they can get away with not including much of the gameplay footage since they already have an established user base, are well known, and besides the advertisement is aimed at existing consumers since it's an *expansion pack* (meaning you have to own all previous games to play it).


If the commercials were just being shown to WoW players (announcement on the official forums or fan forums, booth at a con, etc.) that'd be understandable, but this is on public TV, _where a majority of the viewers have never played the game._  That's where the lack of context becomes important.  Most people viewing have no experience with WoW, and wouldn't know what to make of the commercial.



PettingZoo said:


> Movie trailers may not show you key points in the film but they do show you what type of movie it is since they don't want to spoil it


The important part is movie commercials show bits of the actual movie.  They show parts of the actual thing you're going to pay to experience.  It doesn't matter for this comparison how well the movie conveys the plot or hides the twists, since they at least display the product.



PettingZoo said:


> video games are doing the same and in many cases they do show gameplay footage when they can.


Yes, they do show footage at times, but it's not most of the time, which is alarming.  If I watched a commercial for a restaurant and it never actually showed the restaurant or the food, that would not convince me to go there, that'd be a bad commercial.

But when it comes to video games everybody's fine with being shown lies?  "Hey guys buy this product, we're showing footage!"  And then you buy it and you don't get any of that.



PettingZoo said:


> If they showed every single aspect of the gameplay, there probably wouldn't be much left to discover when you play the game.


There's no way they could fit the entire game into a commercial, and movies convey entertainment from drawn-out stories you sit and watch while games get much of their entertainment from the interaction anyways.



PettingZoo said:


> I really can't be bothered continuing this anymore due to your ignorance





PettingZoo said:


> I mean seriously I can't tell if you have aspergers or something





PettingZoo said:


> it's a different type of product, please stop nitpicking details with your autism.


You might want to watch it there, unless you want a ticket off the forums.  That kind of crap doesn't fly very well around here.


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## PettingZoo (Dec 2, 2012)

Rydian said:


> I'm pretty sure the entire game isn't killing and gore, like 100% of the time. There's going to be dialogue, non-violent cutscenes, story hints, all sorts of stuff they could focus on for the commercials.
> 
> I mean, if the game really is 100% bullets and blood without a break or any story or non-R dialogue every single second... that's gotta' be a world record.
> 
> They manage to advertise rated-R movies on TV all the time by simply showing the bits of it that are safe for TV. A game company should be capable of the same thing.


I'd have to disagree with this since in Australia there aren't many, if any R rated movies advertised on TV



Rydian said:


> That's the kind of idea I'm talking about. Show the concept and story, give users an idea of what the product is about... but with footage from the game.
> 
> Why they feel the need to make up footage that's not in the actual product, I don't know. What they're showing is not what you're buying. They're showing you one thing and then selling you another.
> 
> Bait and switch, I think they call it?


 
Well no it isn't a bait and switch since they've cleary applied text that reads "Not actual game footage" meaning that it isn't gameplay footage. Although the style of the cutscenes play out similar to this ad (visually)/



Rydian said:


> Multiple Pandaria commercials exist, but a couple of them (such as the one showing on TV here) don't show in-game footage. I embedded an example.
> 
> *The commercial I embedded and the commercial showing on TV here do not show in-game footage.* Yes there's a trailer that shows in-game footage, but it's not the one being aired on TV from what I've seen (the one here and the one I embedded marked "commercial" from youtube, neither show in-game footage at all).


 
I guess it just depends on where and when you're watching TV.



Rydian said:


> If the commercials were just being shown to WoW players (announcement on the official forums or fan forums, booth at a con, etc.) that'd be understandable, but this is on public TV, _where a majority of the viewers have never played the game._ That's where the lack of context becomes important. Most people viewing have no experience with WoW, and wouldn't know what to make of the commercial.


 
Well that's not necessarily true since many people do happen to know what World of Warcraft is and I guess also what you do in it (I mean the game is 8 years old and has over 10 million subscribers). Many people do happen to know that advertisements can be exaggerated.



I mean take this advertisement for example. They aren't showing the actual cables themselves, yet they're showing little colourful icons whizzing about. Would people believe that the new broadband network rollout would cause this to happen?



Rydian said:


> The important part is movie commercials show bits of the actual movie. They show parts of the actual thing you're going to pay to experience. It doesn't matter for this comparison how well the movie conveys the plot or hides the twists, since they at least display the product.


 
You're right on that, it was a pretty weak point to make.



Rydian said:


> Yes, they do show footage at times, but it's not most of the time, which is alarming. If I watched a commercial for a restaurant and it never actually showed the restaurant or the food, that would not convince me to go there, that'd be a bad commercial.
> 
> But when it comes to video games everybody's fine with being shown lies? "Hey guys buy this product, *we're showing footage*!" And then you buy it and you don't get any of that.


 

Here's another new game which features gameplay.

I really am not sure what ads you're seeing on TV but most ads I do see include gameplay content and many times where you are shown a commercial with out gameplay content it's usually noted that it isn't in game footage. It does seem pretty bad that for the WoW ads that don't happen to have the footage in it there isn't any note saying it isn't in game footage. Yet most people these days aren't dumb enough to believe pre rendered cgi is game footage so it wouldn't be needed.




Rydian said:


> There's no way they could fit the entire game into a commercial, and movies convey entertainment from drawn-out stories you sit and watch while games get much of their entertainment from the interaction anyways.


 
Again, I didn't manage to word this properly though a sense of discovery is some part key to interaction in video games, a motivation.



Rydian said:


> You might want to watch it there, unless you want a ticket off the forums. That kind of crap doesn't fly very well around here.


 
I am very well aware of this and apologize for my rash descriptions it was uncalled for, but jeez people aren't necessarily dumb is what I'm trying to get across here. People can tell the difference between what is false and what isn't, if people even remotely know what one video game may be like in the current or previous generation then they would know to expect that cgi cinematics wouldn't be gameplay. As well as that if you feel that people are being strongly done wrong and lied to about a product so much to the extent that they may buy the game and be dissatisfied, if they took one look at the back of the box they would be able to tell that the screen shots of the game would differ from the cinematic.

As for the cinematic action not telling you how gameplay pans out, well gameplay could do the same. If there was an ad for S.T.A.L.K.E.R that included some gameplay footage people could make assumptions that it is an FPS similar to CoD, etc.


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## Rydian (Dec 2, 2012)

PettingZoo said:


> I'd have to disagree with this since in Australia there aren't many, if any R rated movies advertised on TV


The Godfather: R
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068646/

The movie has plenty of assassinations and blood, but it's not in the trailer.

Se7en: R
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114369/

The movie has a serial killer disfiguring and killing people, but none of that is shown in the trailer.

Saving Private Ryan: R
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120815/

Near the beginning of the movie, one soldier is _looking for his arm_.  You don't see that type of thing in the trailer, however, because the trailer, while needing to represent the actual product, also needs to be clean enough for TV, so they show clips that are safe for TV.



PettingZoo said:


> Well no it isn't a bait and switch since they've cleary applied text that reads "Not actual game footage" meaning that it isn't gameplay footage. Although the style of the cutscenes play out similar to this ad (visually)


I've only seen that in a few trailers, announcement ones at cons and such (and usually because at that point, the game is unfinished and any visuals they would show are likely to change).



PettingZoo said:


> I mean take this advertisement for example. They aren't showing the actual cables themselves, yet they're showing little colourful icons whizzing about. Would people believe that the new broadband network rollout would cause this to happen?


They're not advertising a good, they're advertising a service, so simply mentioning what service it is is often good enough, especially one with such a wide variety of visualizations (web pages on different devices, online gaming, video chatting, etc.).



PettingZoo said:


> I really am not sure what ads you're seeing on TV


Seeing as you're in a heavily-censored country while I'm in the US ("violence fuck yeah!", etc.), that's probably why we see such different approaches to things.


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## naved.islam14 (Dec 2, 2012)

@OP: I hate 'em too!
@Everyone Else Who Posted In this Thread: Let's sue everyone who ever made an advertisement/commercial!
End of thread.


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