# Windows 7 will receive paid monthly updates after support ends



## Skittyusedcovet (Sep 9, 2018)

Is it bad I want to continue to use a dinosaur? Screw Microsoft Im going to keep doing things my way and continue to use my dinosaur as I please. They dont get my money either.


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## ry755 (Sep 9, 2018)

Goddamnit Micro$oft


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## SnAQ (Sep 9, 2018)

Seems reasonable, atleast they offer the people living in the past the possibility of continuing to do so.

I will never understand why people doesn't want a better OS. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 via Tapatalk


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## VinsCool (Sep 9, 2018)

On the bright side you will no longer constantly get update nags if you don't pay, I guess.


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## ry755 (Sep 9, 2018)

SnAQ said:


> I will never understand why people doesn't want a better OS.


Windows 10 and "better OS" don't go together


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## Godofcheese (Sep 9, 2018)

ry755 said:


> Windows 10 and "better OS" don't go together



I haven't had any problems, yet, with W10.
And I've used it since beta :>

Much smoother ride than what I had with W7.


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## ry755 (Sep 9, 2018)

Godofcheese said:


> I haven't had any problems, yet, with W10.
> And I've used it since beta :>
> 
> Much smoother ride than what I had with W7.


The only problem I've had is that it's slow af.
Windows 8 is faster on my dual core Pentium laptop than 10 is on my i5 5200U laptop.


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## Ericthegreat (Sep 9, 2018)

Switch to windows 10....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ry755 said:


> The only problem I've had is that it's slow af.
> Windows 8 is faster on my dual core Pentium laptop than 10 is on my i5 5200U laptop.


Do you have like 2gb of ram? Anyway get a SSD. After you've used one, it's necessary.


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## AmandaRose (Sep 9, 2018)

SnAQ said:


> Seems reasonable, atleast they offer the people living in the past the possibility of continuing to do so.
> 
> I will never understand why people doesn't want a better OS.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 via Tapatalk


Windows 10 better?? Are you deluded in what possible way is windows 10 better lol


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## Ericthegreat (Sep 9, 2018)

VinsCool said:


> On the bright side you will no longer constantly get update nags if you don't pay, I guess.


I bet you will, and it'll be giant and say "NO LONGER SUPPORTED YOUR SYSTEM IS VULNERABLE" anyway for ppl who have never tried to run a copy if windows 98 recently, after the security updates run out, pretty much you go to one grey website and that's it you got at least 1 virus from a pop-up or somthing.


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## ry755 (Sep 9, 2018)

Ericthegreat said:


> Do you have like 2gb of ram? Anyway get a SSD. After you've used one, it's necessary.


No, both laptops have 4 gb


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## LaPingas (Sep 9, 2018)

If people want to continue using Windows 7 I can understand that, but I don't see much reasons to do so. I've used Windows 7 for like 5 years in my old computer (not that old - 4gb of ram and a 3rd gen i5) and basic operation was a mess. It wasn't much-bloated at all. 4 months into using Windows 10 on both my new desktop and my old laptop (Pavilion dv4) and really it performs much better (I tried both OSes on my Pavilion with clean installs..) so other than GUI changes that can be somewhat fixed with some modifications, I don't really see any reason for normal users to use 7

Dick move by MS anyways though


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## Song of storms (Sep 9, 2018)

I don't know what's more "lol" between this "news" about something that Microsoft has been doing for literally every single OS they released, or people being butthurt at Microsoft.

These paid updates are made specifically for businesses that require older OSs to work with their proprietary software. Only a very tiny fraction of the users pay for this, so in what world would Microsoft spend thousands of dollars a month in research and updates just to please a very small amount of users that have the money anyway?

What do you think that your bank's ATM use as operative system? Windows 10? Ubuntu? Please XD


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## Arras (Sep 9, 2018)

Yup, this is meant for businesses, not the average user. Note how only the pro version is even supported at all. They did the same to XP, it's just because they don't want to keep updating multiple versions indefinitely.


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## godreborn (Sep 9, 2018)

unfortunately, my old pc didn't survive.  it was on windows 7.  now, all I have is my parents' pc.


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## Enkuler (Sep 9, 2018)

AmandaRose said:


> Windows 10 better?? Are you deluded in what possible way is windows 10 better lol


It has built-in virtual desktops* and task view for an easy way to switch windows. The explorer should get tabs in October**. And it doesn't have a fugly skeuomorphism-based style.

*without using alternatives such as BetterDesktopTool which kinda work but not as well as a built-in feature, plus they are not free for commercial use.
**same, without using alternatives such as Explorer++ which do have a lot of features I like, but for some reason it lags on all the machines I tested it on. QTTabBar does the job well however, but you know, the fact that there are so many alternative ways to fulfill such a basic need proves how Windows 7 is retarded, unlike Windows 10.

Now, in what possible way is Windows 7 better than 10? It runs on prehistoric PCs? It doesn't mean it's better, it only means your PC sucks, which indeed prevents you from switching to the better OS which isn't the problem.


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## RattletraPM (Sep 9, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> These paid updates are made specifically for businesses that require older OSs to work with their proprietary software. Only a very tiny fraction of the users pay for this, so in what world would Microsoft spend thousands of dollars a month in research and updates just to please a very small amount of users that have the money anyway?


I was about to say that. From what I know ATMs tend to use way older OSes (generally OS/2 and derivates, sometimes Windows XP and rarely DOS) but still this is clearly targeted to businesses rather than individuals.

They tend to upgrade their computer way less frequently due to licensing costs/software incompatibilities/logistical and organizational reasons. If they don't upgrade and decide to pay then MS gets more money, if they upgrade they'll proably do it in bulk, which means many less PCs using old Windows OS, and that in turn means Microsoft will soon have one less OS to support. It's a win-win scenario for them.


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## godreborn (Sep 9, 2018)

ry755 said:


> No, both laptops have 4 gb



I bought a ssd a month or two ago.  it took like five minutes or less to reinstall windows.  and, it takes mere seconds to restart.  on an old pc, it might not be worth it though.  

I think my computer is bottle necked by my gpu, which I plan to upgrade, though.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

For me w10 is fast,and I have been a pc gamer for just about a year now.The only issue with it are the forced updates,that's it.If you are prepared to download the update,and then delete it off your harddrive,then it's not so bad when you have 8-16gb ram with a ssd,and the pc boots super fast anyway.


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## smileyhead (Sep 9, 2018)

Ominous66521 said:


> For me w10 is fast,and I have been a pc gamer for just about a year now.The only issue with it are the forced updates,that's it.If you are prepared to download the update,and then delete it off your harddrive,then it's not so bad when you have 8-16gb ram with a ssd,and the pc boots super fast anyway.


What's wrong with updates? You can just let them do their thing when you turn off your computer for the day and go to sleep.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

smileyhead said:


> What's wrong with updates? You can just let them do their thing when you turn off your computer for the day and go to sleep.


For me the pc downloads the update in the background sometimes when I'm not looking,and then when i go to shut it down,it forces me into the update either way.


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## godreborn (Sep 9, 2018)

I personally don't turn my laptop off.  there's an "active" times thing for windows 10 updates, so updates might only happen while you're asleep.


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## smilodon (Sep 9, 2018)

Paid updates for legacy software is the industry standard. You can also recieve java 6 updates for a fee. Nothing outrageous about that.


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## smileyhead (Sep 9, 2018)

Ominous66521 said:


> For me the pc downloads the update in the background sometimes when I'm not looking,and then when i go to shut it down,it forces me into the update either way.


So? Why couldn't it update when you don't need to use it anymore? That's the most convenient it's gonna get (unless they try and copy Android's A/B system).


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## FAST6191 (Sep 9, 2018)

Curious to see the if not dislike then disapproval of Windows 7. I can't say it was their best (for my money if they could smoosh XP and 7 together to iron out XP's rough edges but keep its ability to do what I tell it that would be it) but everybody I met has really enjoyed 7 and 10 always has mixed opinions, especially with the mobile unification push.

Anyway probably got about 2 years before it really starts to be a problem for anything I have nominal responsibility for, and with a decent setup could probably push it beyond that as well.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Skittyusedcovet said:


> Is it bad I want to continue to use a dinosaur? Screw Microsoft Im going to keep doing things my way and continue to use my dinosaur as I please. They dont get my money either.



No is not bad at all..  Hell i still have computers that still run Win 95.  But making updates cost money, is not like they clap their hands and get an update, it cost money.  So they charging money for updates after an OS is no longer supported is not bad, in fact they are doing you a favour, they could just give you the middle finger and tell you "good luck with the exploits that people is going to find".




Enkuler said:


> Now, in what possible way is Windows 7 better than 10? It runs on prehistoric PCs? It doesn't mean it's better, it only means your PC sucks, which indeed prevents you from switching to the better OS which isn't the problem.



What don't you know?? It's trendy to bash Microsoft, even if you started using PC 5 years ago.....  When XP was released everyone was crying how superior  Win 98 SE and XP was a crap...   When XP supported did end and Windows 7 was the thing too use, they did cry on how much better XP is..... 
Now that Win 10 is the thing too use, they cry on how awesome 7 is.....

About prehistoric PCs, that's one the reasson why Vista  flooped...  A lot of PC with hardware was that was barely able to run XP was shipped with Vista and for in some worst case, Vista Starter......  So people complained that their uber end PC that was barely able to run XP, was not working with a new brand OS.
Some of the issue were not really that hard to fix, hell Win 7 is pretty much that Vista with small fixes and a less annoying UAC.


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Sep 9, 2018)

What?
Don't they think they have already enough money in the bank? They know many people use Windows 7. Why not promt them to move on to Windows 10?


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Trash_Bandatcoot said:


> What?
> Don't they think they have already enough money in the bank? They know many people use Windows 7. Why not promt them to move on to Windows 10?



But they did, they were giving free updates to Win 10 for a looooong time... That's how i got all my PC running windows 10 with their free upgrade program... But people were too busy bashing Microsofto for something...


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> But they did, they were giving free updates to Win 10 for a looooong time... That's how i got all my PC running windows 10 with their free upgrade program... But people were too busy bashing Microsofto for something...



They can prompt them to buy it, it will even give them more money by instantly dropping support.
In fact, they still deliver Windows XP updates! Why won't it die yet?


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Trash_Bandatcoot said:


> They can prompt them to buy it, it will even give them more money by instantly dropping support.
> In fact, they still deliver Windows XP updates! Why won't it die yet?



They dropped XP a long time ago. Those registry hacks athat allows for updates, are for a special embedded versions of XP, they are not meant for the average joe and even MS cease to update that version of XP in less than a year.


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

My copy of win10 pro costed for 7€, just worth a pizza, so what holds you guys keep using old dinosaurs??


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

leon315 said:


> My copy of win10 pro costed for 7€, just worth a pizza, so what holds you guys keep using old dinosaurs??


It's trendy to say you hate Microsoft and how they resctrict you and want to take your money!!! Yet they use and love Apple xD


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> It's trendy to say you hate Microsoft and how they resctrict you and want to take your money!!! Yet they use and love Apple xD


so you still love apple even they have you to pay TRIPLE for some shitty obsolete machine?? at least my win10pro worth less than a pizza... and you guys got triggered pretending M$ to support endlessly old OS


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

leon315 said:


> so you still love apple even they have you to pay TRIPLE for some shitty obsolete machine?? at least my win10pro worth less than a pizza... and you guys got triggered pretending M$ to support endlessly old OS



I don't fell like writing a long post, so i will just copy this and let you figure out my last post.

"irony
ˈʌɪrəni/
_noun_

the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
"‘Don't go overboard with the gratitude,’ he rejoined with heavy irony"
synonyms: sarcasm, sardonicism, dryness, causticity, sharpness, acerbity, acid, bitterness, trenchancy, mordancy, cynicism; More"


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## SkittleDash (Sep 9, 2018)

I miss XP... ;-;


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> I don't fell like writing a long post, so i will just copy this and let you figure out my last post.
> 
> "irony
> ˈʌɪrəni/
> ...


YOOU mean the entire topic is a meme joke.... just to triggered some stingy asses who don't wanna move to win10


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## nightking (Sep 9, 2018)

Guess I will migrate to Linux in a few years.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

osaeed09 said:


> Guess I will migrate to Linux in a few years.



But they use the same concept, OS are supported for a finite # of years

In fact if you have "legacy" hardware you are also stuck with very old distro of linux, or very basic ones.


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## Pachee (Sep 9, 2018)

AmandaRose said:


> Windows 10 better?? Are you deluded in what possible way is windows 10 better lol


Windows 10 has faster booting because it basically doesn't reboot anymore, lots of parts of the system are kept in a "hibernated" mode like device driver states.
But that is all about it.


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## DinohScene (Sep 9, 2018)

I like Win 7.
But idk if I like Win 10 enough to part with it on 2020, likely have to cus no driver support for Win 7.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

10 bucks says these updates can be pirated.


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## Coto (Sep 9, 2018)

There is a lot of apps that aren't windows 8+ compatible. A lot of code I have to do is running between the Windows 8.1+ kernel and the older Windows kernel.

Drivers and such. I see this as a good business move. Also Windows7 has been loyal for almost 10 years. It's perfect for me.

Virus? No problem, system restore and keep backups in external media.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

StarGazerTom said:


> 10 bucks says these updates can be pirated.


For 10 bucks you can get a license of Windows 10 and forget about an old software, plus pirated upgrades uhmm i wonder if the pirate baked something else on it.



Pachee said:


> Windows 10 has faster booting because it basically doesn't reboot anymore, lots of parts of the system are kept in a "hibernated" mode like device driver states.
> But that is all about it.


-Better notifications
-Better Windows defender (which was already good since 7 anyway).  No more need to use a third party...
-Better sync between your Ms account and the OS.  
-You can sync your Android phone with windows, no need to third party anything.

Is a much better OS than 7.


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## Kingy (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> -Better notifications
> -Better Windows defender (which was already good since 7 anyway). No more need to use a third party...
> -Better sync between your Ms account and the OS.
> -You can sync your Android phone with windows, no need to third party anything.
> ...


Do you expect people using Win7 to care about "Better notifications" or anything else on the list?


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Kingy_ said:


> Do you expect people using Win7 to care about "Better notifications" or anything else on the list?



I don't expect anything from people using Win7. But i find it funny when they try to pass Win7 as better than Win10. I been an early adopter of Windows 0S since Win98. Only had two regrets  Win98  and ME, every single version of windows was an upgrade over the last one.
Vista was a case of an OS that was released when people was still using hardware made for 98, so they cried it was Vista fault.


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## Kingy (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> I don't expect anything from people using Win7. But i find it funny when they try to pass Win7 as better than Win10. I been an early adopter of Windows 0S since Win98. Only had two regrets  Win98  and ME, every single version of windows was an upgrade over the last one.
> Vista was a case of an OS that was released when people was still using hardware made for 98.


I personally dislike Windows 10 because of the bloat that gets preinstalled on it (those windows store games, for instance). It isn't wrong to prefer an OS over a newer one.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Kingy_ said:


> I personally dislike Windows 10 because of the bloat that gets preinstalled on it (those windows store games, for instance). It isn't wrong to prefer an OS over a newer one.


All that "bloat" you don't have to install it. In fact you can select not to be installed and oter can be deactivate, like Xbox Dvr.
You can like an ancient OS, is not bad. In fact i love Win 2k, but that doesn't mean is better than a newer one.


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 9, 2018)

It looks like all those more expensive taxes for old cars.

I guess old versions of Windows are also harder on the environment /s

PS: Jokes aside, it makes sense.


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## TwistedZeon (Sep 9, 2018)

I will start this by saying I had used Windows 10 since it's beta's for some time up until last week. I once thought it was an "okay" os but over time it more and more showed it's true face. 

I already didn't agree with the bloat and it's abundance of "spying" telemetry which can never truly be disabled (I wouldn't trust an os's privacy if you have to use 3rd party programs to disable that stuff).

One big glaring issue is 10's networking, it just doesn't wanna work unless it feels like it. I could have all the pc's in my house see each other fine one day and the next I'd be having to troubleshoot it and still not actually know why it started working again.

What about having to restart Explorer.exe rather often because your task bar decides it's feeling neglected and stays on top of youtube videos..

Then there was the forced update I had just a few weeks ago where it failed causing an unrecoverable blue screen. After reformatting it I then proceeded to do the updates and got one that couldn't proceed no matter what thus having to reformat again at which point I finally gave up and went back to 8.1 since I never had these kinds of issues with that or 7 or vista or even xp..

Windows 8.1 is windows 10 without the shit.. And the only thing you have to do to it is install a proper start menu.

People need to stop believing that Microsoft always has your best interests, just like they think the same of every other massive corporate company. Use your head and see that they aren't your best friend, they want your money. 

Windows 10 is made with that in mind and is designed to try and collect as much data as "legally" possible for advertising and other means.


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## TwistedZeon (Sep 9, 2018)

(Double posted because I pressed post twice on accident)


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## Seriel (Sep 9, 2018)

Enkuler said:


> The explorer should get tabs in October


It won't. The Sets feature has been delayed and removed from Insider builds due to issues. You'll see it sometime in 2019.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 9, 2018)

AmandaRose said:


> Windows 10 better?? Are you deluded in what possible way is windows 10 better lol


Such ignorance. I bet you choose to believe Microsoft spies on you..


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## AmandaRose (Sep 9, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Such ignorance. I bet you choose to believe Microsoft spies on you..


They don't spy on me I use Linux lol.


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## Pachee (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> All that "bloat" you don't have to install it. In fact you can select not to be installed and oter can be deactivate, like Xbox Dvr.


False. Even if "not installed", they will still be installed on the system, and getting updated with windows updates (\windows\servicing\packages). Also a lot of stuff can't even be deactivated nor removed without extra hacks.


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## Pachee (Sep 9, 2018)

dup.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Kingy_ said:


> I personally dislike Windows 10 because of the bloat that gets preinstalled on it (those windows store games, for instance). It isn't wrong to prefer an OS over a newer one.


Take it from a guy who's installed Windows 10 on a bunch of college laptops: Candy Crush et al aren't actually installed to the system, they're all shortcuts to downloads that you can choose to install after attempting to open them. I think that the only exception to the rule may be Wildtangent Games, but either way it takes 5 minutes to remove the "bloat" that comes with Windows 10, especially if you deactivate all the intrusive settings during install


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Pachee said:


> False. Even if "not installed", they will still be installed on the system, and getting updated with windows updates (\windows\servicing\packages). Also a lot of stuff can't even be deactivated nor removed without extra hacks.



Windows updates can be modified to choose what is update or not.
Service can be disable without any issue, no need to use any hacks.
But what you want to deactivate that cannot be?


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

Guys, do you know on win10 has M$ Edge AKA improved Internet Explorer?? just this alone worth all 10 bucks!!!


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## Carnelian (Sep 9, 2018)

Windows 10 is overrated.


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## Song of storms (Sep 9, 2018)

We will see a "WE DON'T WANT TO UPDATE WINDOWS! THE APRIL 2018 UPDATE WAS THE BEST! FUCK MICROSOFT" thread in 10 years. Granted.


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## Pachee (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Windows updates can be modified to choose what is update or not.
> Service can be disable without any issue, no need to use any hacks.
> But what you want to deactivate that cannot be?


I am not talking about "services", what i meant are the system packages stored in windows\servicing\packages. You can't chose to not update them, you can't remove them without extra hacks. Try to remove the Windows Store


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Pachee said:


> I am not talking about "services", what i meant are the system packages stored in windows\servicing\packages. You can't chose to not update them, you can't remove them without extra hacks. Try to remove the Windows Store


Why is having the Windows Store a bad thing?... Even if you yourself don't use it, it's not like it's a useless feature


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## AmandaRose (Sep 9, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Why is having the Windows Store a bad thing?... Even if you yourself don't use it, it's not like it's a useless feature


Well if someone is not using it then it is useless to them lol.


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

Carnelian said:


> Windows 10 is overrated.


wIN7 OUTDATED


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## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

Unless you have hardware or software incompatibilities, there is no reason not to update to Windows 10. It's more secure, it's faster, it's generally lighter on RAM, and it has more features.

As mentioned in the first post, Windows 7 will also stop receiving security updates in 2020, and Windows 8.1 will stop receiving security updates in 2023.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

AmandaRose said:


> Well if someone is not using it then it is useless to them lol.


Obviously, but it objectively HAS USE, and I know that people use it, especially since Windows 10 S came out. It's not like Internet Explorer, which most people used exactly once to download Chrome or Firefox by the time Windows 7 was out


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 9, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Obviously, but it objectively HAS USE, and I know that people use it, especially since Windows 10 S came out. It's not like Internet Explorer, which most people used exactly once to download Chrome or Firefox by the time Windows 7 was out



IE.. The only browser to be considered an installer for better browsers. :v


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Pachee said:


> I am not talking about "services", what i meant are the system packages stored in windows\servicing\packages. You can't chose to not update them, you can't remove them without extra hacks. Try to remove the Windows Store



Are you kidding me? you can do that with gpedit.msc (which is not an "extra hack")  once it is disable.  Windows update won't update the store nor any app you got from the store..

Most of those "extra hacks"  or "uber ultra win 10 tweak!!" are just scripts that do it for you,  you are not "hacking" windows, just using functions that are already there and should be common knowledge for most not so basic user...

In fact Microsoft store is one of the things i disable in all win 10 computers, once disable it won't update and yes some files  are not deleted will waste the amazing and uber space of  910KB!!!!!!!!!


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## the_randomizer (Sep 9, 2018)

ry755 said:


> Windows 10 and "better OS" don't go together



That's funny, it's been 100% stable on my end, not a single crash. You were saying?


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## The Real Jdbye (Sep 9, 2018)

Hasn't this always been a thing for business users? They just don't advertise it.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Hasn't this always been a thing for business users? They just don't advertise it.


Yes, that's why with these so called "hacks" people been able to keep xp updated. What these "home" user don't get is that they are stuck using outdated Software from Web Browser to  Antivirus.....


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## The Real Jdbye (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Yes, that's why with these so called "hacks" people been able to keep xp updated. What these "home" user don't get is that they are stuck using outdated Software from Web Browser to  Antivirus.....


Businesses are often stuck using outdated software whether they want to or not. Hence why they need this sort of thing to at least keep Windows secure, since their software won't work on newer versions.
But for home users, there's not really much point in staying on old Windows versions.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

This seems like something only businesses and corporations that use _Windows 7_ regularly on their PCs would want to use.  I doubt most end-users would find much use in paying for updates to an old OS, especially considering it's now 2 iterations of _Windows_ behind by this point.  The fact that only the Professional versions of _Windows_ will be receiving these updates is also rather telling.

Performing an update is an arduous task in business, and I'd imagine it's a headache to get all the company's necessary software up and running on a newer OS without any bugs or issues on all computers.  There's also the possibility that _Windows 7_ is being used as part of a WAMP Stack to run the aforementioned hypothetical company's website or databases.  When it comes to servers and corporations, the general attitude towards software is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Businesses are often stuck using outdated software whether they want to or not. Hence why they need this sort of thing to at least keep Windows secure, since their software won't work on newer versions.
> But for home users, there's not really much point in staying on old Windows versions.


I know, i work as IT for various business, sometimes they need to keep some machines running old software for legacy purpose.
But the home user that insist in using Xp as their MAIN os, is pointless.  Sure you can keep a few pc running old OS for fun and playing older games in the hardware they were meant to be played  BUT  using it for daily using, checking your bank account, paypal etc... It's just nuts.


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## Hayato213 (Sep 9, 2018)

Windows 10 works fine, it has been out for about three years now. When people said compatibility problem I would agree if you said when it first came out, now Windows 10 works fine.


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## BiggieCheese (Sep 9, 2018)

All things considered, what’s the point of Windows 10 being more “secure” (Is there any proof that’s actually true beyond Microsoft’s claims anyway?) from a user perspective when having even a remote degree of tech-savviness and common sense should be enough for you to avoid viruses and malware in most cases, I get that a business would need that due to the potentially very high stakes involved, but in that case... Why not just use one of the many flavors of Linux that are out there instead? I would never want to go with the OS that’s the most popular among people with malicious intent, especially if my clients, employees or even my information and money would be at risk.
None of this even matters anyway at this point, thanks to most of Intel’s CPUs getting exploited to hell and back, unless you want to enable different patches that will severely gimp your CPU and borderline turn it into a potato clock, pretty much any concept of security on modern computers has pretty much died for the time being unless you’re an AMD user, (or if you’re willing to spend some mad dosh on a new CPU) and in that case it’s just a matter of time until major exploits for their CPUs are discovered as well.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

BiggieCheese said:


> All things considered, what’s the point of Windows 10 being more “secure” (Is there any proof that’s actually true beyond Microsoft’s claims anyway?) from a user perspective when having even a remote degree of tech-savviness and common sense should be enough for you to avoid viruses and malware in most cases, I get that a business would need that due to the potentially very high stakes involved, but in that case... Why not just use one of the many flavors of Linux that are out there instead? I would never want to go with the OS that’s the most popular among people with malicious intent, especially if my clients, employees or even my information and money would be at risk.
> None of this even matters anyway at this point, thanks to most of Intel’s CPUs getting exploited to hell and back, unless you want to enable different patches that will severely gimp your CPU and borderline turn it into a potato clock, pretty much any concept of security on modern computers has pretty much died for the time being unless you’re an AMD user, (or if you’re willing to spend some mad dosh on a new CPU) and in that case it’s just a matter of time until major exploits for their CPUs are discovered as well.



Big business, use a mix of OS, they are not always all Windows,  all Linux,  all MacOs. 
For the example the machine that's in charge of being the firewall of the local network can be running a flavour of linux, a specific workstation could be a very high end mac computer, etc. For general purpose Windows is ideal since it's the OS that many people use in their houses, so they will be more confortable using it.
Also the idea of 100% is false and every person working in a security area will know it, there is always a chance of breach, that's why it's important to keep system updated as possible...

Only silly people think that any OS can be the one to rule them all. They don't compete, they coexist each of them has their pros and cons.


----------



## Canna (Sep 9, 2018)

What a absolute joke,, charging people who purchased there license to own a copy of windows with promised updates and feature support just to Kick it to the curb, but like other releases support ends.. how about you give windows users on 7 a free update to 10 before you shut it down... Like you offered to us in the beginning...

Then there windows 10 which i am using ,
But its full of Microsoft spyware... Sending your private data to them..
Check out your privacy settings, block everything... and please use a tool called spybot anti beacon, as your still sending telemetry data to them and what programs you are using such and so forth...
Microsoft did the sneaky with 10 but can be avoided.. as i am now on lock down and they dont get sht from me ...

So yeah check out ya privacy and the app i recommend spybot anti beacon..
Other then that 10 seems to work fine, a big difference to 7...Some nice features some bad.
But there is nothing wrong with 7 either... well between 10/7....

As for the windows between 7 and 10 there absolute dog..

I have worked with computers since i was a young boy that was over 15 years now, i passed my A+ certification to become a IT technician, all tho this was mainly hardware side, i still was taught the software side also,the networking blah blah .... Always make sure you have a good antivirus and malware application, try to use a vpn if and were possible... Microsoft and windows defender sux balls and is about as much use as a chocolate teapot...

Sorry i wont go on haha god damn it why did i become interested in Personal computers/technology  i dont know.


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## comput3rus3r (Sep 9, 2018)

smileyhead said:


> View attachment 142661​
> In a recent blog post titled “Helping customers shift to a modern desktop”, Microsoft has confirmed that from 14 January 2020, when the extended support for Windows 7 ends, they will only keep pushing security updates to Windows 7 users who have signed up to a monthly paid subscription. Microsoft also says that the subscription fee will increase every year.
> 
> 
> ...


So I have to wait till 2020 for MS to stop nagging me with more updates?


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## supergamer368 (Sep 9, 2018)

That’s a really stupid idea. What if people like Windows 7 because it doesn’t need an update every few minutes? Now it can only get an update every few dollars. Way to go micro$oft, extract money from people just because they don’t use your new junk. (psst, when the time comes, don’t activate it. it costs like $100.)


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## Seriel (Sep 9, 2018)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Hasn't this always been a thing for business users? They just don't advertise it.


Yeah it's been a thing for XP and Vista as far as I understand, they're advertising it a lot further this time, likely due to the large amount of users still using 7 (Even home ones)




Canna said:


> What a absolute joke,, charging people who purchased there license to own a copy of windows with promised updates





supergamer368 said:


> That’s a really stupid idea. What if people like Windows 7 because it doesn’t need an update every few minutes? Now it can only get an update every few dollars. Way to go micro$oft, extract money from people just because they don’t use your new junk. (psst, when the time comes, don’t activate it. it costs like $100.)


The license you originally bought for Windows 7 included (extended) support until 2020 which is still there, they're just _adding more support_ for the money, which I guess is perfectly fine. You didn't pay for all this extra support when you bought 7 (You paid agreeing that it ends in 2020) and it costs Microsoft money to make these updates so what's so wrong about them offering the choice for people who want it? Microsoft is not taking anything away from you, they're giving you more updates if you really need them (Mainly for business users who probably pay more to upgrade all their many systems to 10)


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## Canna (Sep 9, 2018)

Seriel said:


> Yeah it's been a thing for XP and Vista as far as I understand, they're advertising it a lot further this time, likely due to the large amount of users still using 7 (Even home ones)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Carm the hell down...Getting all moody and sht You this you that.
I never said it has ended i know its there till 2020... Its good there continuing to add support for people who wish to use it, but charging them for it not sure i personally agree on that..Never said anything was wrong them giving a choice...


----------



## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Canna said:


> how about you give windows users on 7 a free update to 10 before you shut it down... Like you offered to us in the beginning...
> 
> Then there windows 10 which i am using ,
> But its full of Microsoft spyware... Sending your private data to them..
> ...


Why would give AGAIN another chance for a free upgrade?? The one they did at the start lasted for a loooooong time, more than enough for every single user of Win 7 to upgrade...  Those who refused, well their lose.

That "spyware" is far from being a secret well hiding by MS, people just need to read what they are installing...



supergamer368 said:


> What if people like Windows 7 because it doesn’t need an update every few minutes?



Oh i see you never used Win 7 when it was brand new....



Canna said:


> Its good there continuing to add support for people who wish to use it, but charging them for it not sure i personally agree on that..Never said anything was wrong them giving a choice...




Why not?  Microsoft never lied about when the support for an OS will end, you have the tables. It was not a secret, all the OS have a lifespan. Making an update cost resources to Microsoft, so i don't what's wrong to charge for updates for an OS that is no longer supported.
They did respect their part of the contract.


----------



## Canna (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Why would give AGAIN another chance for a free upgrade?? The one they did at the start lasted for a loooooong time, more than enough for every single user of Win 7 to upgrade...  Those who refused, well their lose.
> 
> That "spyware" is far from being a secret well hiding by MS, people just need to read what they are installing...
> 
> ...



Not saying it is a secret but i like to inform the less knowledgeable about it
And some systems come  pre installed win 10 so how would they know whats installed for the non advanced user. ??

and not everyone knew about the free upgrade..


----------



## Seriel (Sep 9, 2018)

Canna said:


> Carm the hell down...Getting all moody and sht You this you that.


Literally aren't moody about any of this in the slightest, its a forum so I'm having a discussion?


Canna said:


> I never said it has ended i know its there till 2020...


And I never said you said it ended? I fail to see your point there


Canna said:


> ... Its good there continuing to add support for people who wish to use it, but charging them for it not sure i personally agree on that..Never said anything was wrong them giving a choice...


You said it was "a absolute joke", I'd say that was you saying something was wrong with it, but hey what do I know


----------



## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Canna said:


> Not saying it is a secret but i like to inform the less knowledgeable about it
> And some systems come  pre installed win 10 so how would they know whats installed for the non advanced user. ??
> 
> and not everyone knew about the free upgrade..



If you had Win 7, then you knew about the free upgrade... Hell Microsoft was spamming Win 7 users with "HEY WIN 10 IS OUT, UPGRADE FOR FREE!!! download this tool"


----------



## RedoLane (Sep 9, 2018)

Can't wait for the Windows Vista 2


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## Canna (Sep 9, 2018)

Seriel said:


> Literally aren't moody about any of this in the slightest, its a forum so I'm having a discussion?
> 
> And I never said you said it ended? I fail to see your point there
> 
> You said it was "a absolute joke", I'd say that was you saying something was wrong with it, but hey what do I know


My apologies then missy guess i miss understand what you are saying or how you are saying it.. Im greatfull for the discussion...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WildDog said:


> If you had Win 7, then you knew about the free upgrade... Hell Microsoft was spamming Win 7 users with "HEY WIN 10 IS OUT, UPGRADE FOR FREE!!! download this tool"


Yes i knew but like i said not everyone had..or does


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## comput3rus3r (Sep 9, 2018)

Canna said:


> What a absolute joke,, charging people who purchased there license to own a copy of windows with promised updates and feature support just to Kick it to the curb, but like other releases support ends.. how about you give windows users on 7 a free update to 10 before you shut it down... Like you offered to us in the beginning...
> 
> Then there windows 10 which i am using ,
> But its full of Microsoft spyware... Sending your private data to them..
> ...



Interesting. I've been using computers since around 1992. My first pc was a 386 dx2 I think it was, but my philosophy is a little different. I follow the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy so I avoid updates at all costs. I also avoid using any antivirus or malware including what comes with windows. I find these programs to act just like viruses or trojans by scanning all your files constantly and thus slowing your computer down. I mean you literally give permission to whichever anti-virus company you're using to see everything you have on your computer. I remember one time I inadvertently updated windows only to find that all my "downloaded pc games" stopped working. I wonder who's security that update was protecting. I find the best way to deal with viruses is knowing exactly what you're installing on your pc.  You should also keep your C drive relatively light and save all your data on a secondary drive. Create restore points before you install any questionable programs. Lastly if you do see problems, reinstalling windows is the fastest way to clean your pc.(at least with windows 7) I can reinstall windows with all the drivers I need in about 20 mins due to the fact that I keep my data on a secondary drive that includes all updates and drivers for all the software I use.


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## pustal (Sep 9, 2018)

It's only fair. Windows 7 is a decade old OS, that at this point isn't a source of revenue but rather a cost that Microsoft only mantains for both reassuring partners and costumers. It isn't sold to retail or OEM anymore and the resources to maintain it is an extra cost.



Lacius said:


> Unless you have hardware or software incompatibilities, there is no reason not to update to Windows 10. It's more secure, it's faster, it's generally lighter on RAM, and it has more features.
> 
> As mentioned in the first post, Windows 7 will also stop receiving security updates in 2020, and Windows 8.1 will stop receiving security updates in 2023.



Windows 10 is not faster. Try to use in the same machine / machine specs Windows 7 and Windows 10. Windows 10 is considerably slower and consumes more resources. Some of it are features that they traded-off like Background Intelligent Transfer, other is the telemetry embedded.

And telemetry is the main concern for many people not want to use it. I simply disable it in the registry and in the services list, but it's not a user friendly solution.


----------



## NeoSlyde (Sep 9, 2018)

If you have a lapshit: Windows 7
If you have a decent modern PC: Windows 10 all the way

Windows 10 is the best OS ever.


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## kumikochan (Sep 9, 2018)

Don't get why people are making a problem out of this. It's their platform and i don't see it as a bad thing


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## Canna (Sep 9, 2018)

comput3rus3r said:


> Interesting. I've been using computers since I around 1992. My first pc was a 386 dx2 I think it was, but my philosophy is a little different. I follow the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy so I avoid updates at all costs. I also avoid using any antivirus or malware including what comes with windows. I find these programs to act just like viruses or trojans by scanning all your files constantly and thus slowing your computer down. I mean you literally give permission to whichever anti-virus company you're using to see everything you have on your computer. I remember one time I inadvertently updated windows only to find that all my "downloaded pc games" stopped working. I wonder who's security that update was protecting. I find the best way to deal with viruses is knowing exactly what you're installing on your pc.  You should also keep your C drive relatively light and save all your data on a secondary drive. Create restore points before you install any questionable programs. Lastly if you do see problems, reinstalling windows is the fastest way to clean your pc.(at least with windows 7) I can reinstall windows with all the drivers I need in about 20 mins due to the fact that I keep my data on a secondary drive that includes all updates and drivers for all the software I use.



Thats right if it isnt broken dont fix it,, the more you put on the more that can go wrong... some updates can cause issues some cannot.. some are there to support more hardware some there to break it, always ironing out the kinks or making more....Of course a scan slows your computer down its accessing your data on your drive...Unless you mean mcaffee or norton then yeah them fckrs were a system hogg...You dont know always what your installing or were you got the computer aids from... well some advance users do and know what to avoid were as the average or less experienced gets a virus or malware per day... its a cruel world.
I would say that reinstalling is a clean way, and you notice a improvement on speed on fresh install only dues to less registry entries and services programs etc so on.. but every program is a bloatware. Pc gets fat..
And agree on keeping your c drive light less clutter faster access room for updates. my rig has 250gb ssd purely just for windows and updates yada yada overkill but always room, all data is on mechanical 6tb erray and has backups and play my games of the other 2 500gb ssds..

But yeah interesting what you are talking about, feel your pains.. live and learn i guess..


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## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

pustal said:


> It's only fair. Windows 7 is a decade old OS, that at this point isn't a source of revenue but rather a cost that Microsoft only mantains for both reassuring partners and costumers. It isn't sold to retail or OEM anymore and the resources to maintain it is an extra cost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 use far less RAM, for example, than Windows 7 on low-RAM machines.

There are lots of reasons why an older computer might feel slower with Windows 10, including but not limited to non-native drivers, but Windows 10 is generally snappier than Windows 7.

Telemetry is a legitimate concern, but relative to the other things I mentioned, it's a non-issue.


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## smileyhead (Sep 9, 2018)

NeoSlyde said:


> If you have a lapshit: Windows 7
> If you have a decent modern PC: Windows 10 all the way
> 
> Windows 10 is the best OS ever.


You do know that most modern laptops (hell, even ones from 5 years ago) can run Windows 10 fine and provide a good user experience as long as you don't plan on hardcore gaming, right?


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## NeoSlyde (Sep 9, 2018)

smileyhead said:


> You do know that most modern laptops (hell, even ones from 5 years ago) can run Windows 10 fine and provide a good user experience as long as you don't plan on hardcore gaming, right?


Well you can always activate Game Mode, it will reduce process so you get better performance while playing.


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## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Why would give AGAIN another chance for a free upgrade?? The one they did at the start lasted for a loooooong time, more than enough for every single user of Win 7 to upgrade...  Those who refused, well their lose.
> 
> That "spyware" is far from being a secret well hiding by MS, people just need to read what they are installing...
> 
> ...


One can still update from Windows 7 to Windows 10 for free if one knows what he or she is doing.


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## blahblah (Sep 9, 2018)

The user submitted news area is so bad. 99% fake news.

The thing the OP refers to is for large enterprise, as part of their support contracts. It is not a general public thing. The customers referred to are large enterprises. The offer itself is not new, it was offered for XP too.


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> One can still update from Windows 7 to Windows 10 for free if one knows what he or she is doing.


The offer to "get windows x" did end 2 years ago, yes some tools still work... But then again you are risking getting your legal win 7 license banned if Microsoft one day wants to take action against those who abused the tools. Which i doubt.


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## MiiJack (Sep 9, 2018)

There's a typo in the title, it should be receive . On another note, what are the minimum specs for Windows 10, it somewhat lags on my laptop.


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## Sakitoshi (Sep 9, 2018)

Whats wrong with this?? will win7 just stop working if you don't pay for the updates?? of course not!
security updates do absolutely nothing for the average user, only paranoids think those things are important.
as a matter of fact I have been running without antivirus (I have defender disabled too) for years now and no virus has infected my pc's. I'm just smart enough to not execute shady programs.

win10 isn't as bad as people make it out to be, not now at least. sure it had several problems at first but now a very little portion of those problems remain.
do I have to remind everyone that XP was a horrible mess when it launched and absolutely nothing worked?
Vista wasn't a success when it launched either, but after SP1 it became as stable as 7.
7 also had problems (mainly the same compatibility problems as Vista) but those were quickly fixed since fixes for Vista were already in the works or released and also worked on 7. that made people think that 7 was highly superior when in reality it was mostly the same but with a second coat of paint.



FAST6191 said:


> Curious to see the if not dislike then disapproval of Windows 7. I can't say it was their best (for my money if they could smoosh XP and 7 together to iron out XP's rough edges but keep its ability to do what I tell it that would be it) but everybody I met has really enjoyed 7 and 10 always has mixed opinions, especially with the mobile unification push.
> 
> Anyway probably got about 2 years before it really starts to be a problem for anything I have nominal responsibility for, and with a decent setup could probably push it beyond that as well.


OS's don't evolve like that, you can't just make a baby out of XP and 7 because Vista is XP with those edges smoothed and 7 is Vista with more edges smoothed.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

In my eyes I prefer Windows 7, purely due to the fact that in W10 I end up disabling a lot of the OS's functionality such as UWP, Edge and the MS store (plus telemetry) because I just don't care enough to use it, and also because I hate being tied to just one ecosystem. With Windows 7 you had to grab an AV Program, drivers if you were using a custom rig and a web browser and the OS was perfect.


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## SomeKindOfUsername (Sep 9, 2018)

I know how this sounds, but if you're a home user and your hardware cannot support Windows 10 optimally then you really should upgrade already.



Canna said:


> how about you give windows users on 7 a free update to 10 before you shut it down





WildDog said:


> The offer to "get windows x" did end 2 years ago, yes some tools still work... But then again you are risking getting your legal win 7 license banned if Microsoft one day wants to take action against those who abused the tools. Which i doubt.


Just FYI, you can still activate Windows 10 with a 7 or 8 key if you have one. The only time this didn't work I contacted tech support and after verifying the key was legit gave me a new one. This will deactivate whatever machine was using that key before of course, but that should be expected.


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## Canna (Sep 9, 2018)

SomeKindOfUsername said:


> Just FYI, you can still activate Windows 10 with a 7 or 8 key if you have one. The only time this didn't work I contacted tech support and after verifying the key was legit gave me a new one.


I get that but i said before shutting it down , and i meant just before then .. but thanks for your reply


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## codezer0 (Sep 9, 2018)

I still have a PC for the express purpose of running Windows XP. And Windows 7 still is a pleasure to use. Pretty sure that there will be a network in place to distribute these post-support updates accordingly, if groups like RyanVM were able to keep Windows XP viable for so long.


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## kuwanger (Sep 9, 2018)

Well, it's only reasonable.  I mean, how can you expect Microsoft to fund the continued fixing of a product they sold?  They've only got ~$133 billion in short term assets and cash/cash equivalents.  How can you expect Microsoft to produce a product that isn't fundamentally broken and open to exploit?  Obviously, after a decade they have every right to just call it a lost cause and...continue using the same base code base for another version of the same product which they continue to sell.  I mean, that's how capitalism works, right?


----------



## Slartibartfast42 (Sep 9, 2018)

ry755 said:


> No, both laptops have 4 gb


That's your fault for using an ancient computer. Computers need 8GB these days. 16GB or more is preferable for anyone who does real work.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

Slartibartfast42 said:


> That's your fault for using an ancient computer. Computers need 8GB these days. 16GB or more is preferable for anyone who does real work.


I agree, using 4 nowadays most likely limits any new computer/os ability.


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## dAVID_ (Sep 9, 2018)

The only real advantage of Win 10 over 7 is that it's still being updated.
Other than that Win 10 is a reskin of 7 with a slightly different interface.
Oh and say goodbye to disabling Windows Update, because that fucker will keep popping up on Win 10 no matter what.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

Even if you disable Windows Update, MS re-enable it after every major feature update. I can see why as not having updates on is kind of risky in a connected internet like today.


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## Dvdxploitr (Sep 9, 2018)

Microsoft already charges for a license key, they shouldn't be charging for updates because someone's computer is running an older OS.  Ubuntu and other Linux distributions are free.  Apple hasn't charged for their OS in years (Granted people consider the high price of buying an Apple computer a "tax" or "fee" itself) but I guess when you dominate the computer industry, you can do shady things like charge for updates....got people into the ecosystem, now rob 'em blind.  Maybe the reason they are using an older version of Windows is because they don't have the money to buy a new computer?  I know computers these days can be bought as cheap as a game console, but there are folks out there that cannot afford it...


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## FAST6191 (Sep 9, 2018)

Sakitoshi said:


> OS's don't evolve like that, you can't just make a baby out of XP and 7 because Vista is XP with those edges smoothed and 7 is Vista with more edges smoothed.


Agreed for the way you are thinking, however I was thinking more XP's ability to get out of my way and allow me to do what I want to do. While the first push probably came with nerfing raw sockets in XP SP2 by 7 such a mindset had become endemic.

If the design philosophy with regards to allowing end users to do what they want from XP could be combined with the polish of 7 it would be the best of both worlds for me.



SomeKindOfUsername said:


> I know how this sounds, but if you're a home user and your hardware cannot support Windows 10 optimally then you really should upgrade already.


Basic browser, email, video playback, office and IM is a solved problem (give or take all the popular instant messengers all regressing in recent years into proprietary junk), has been for many years. Worse still many are content with phones for a lot of that as well. The benefits of upgrading a PC then become hard to justify if that is all you care to do. More computing power is not going to make any of those markedly better in the short term, be it in end user capabilities or security really.


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## Slartibartfast42 (Sep 9, 2018)

Dvdxploitr said:


> Microsoft already charges for a license key, they shouldn't be charging for updates because someone's computer is running an older OS.  Ubuntu and other Linux distributions are free.  Apple hasn't charged for their OS in years (Granted people consider the high price of buying an Apple computer a "tax" or "fee" itself) but I guess when you dominate the computer industry, you can do shady things like charge for updates....got people into the ecosystem, now rob 'em blind.  Maybe the reason they are using an older version of Windows is because they don't have the money to buy a new computer?  I know computers these days can be bought as cheap as a game console, but there are folks out there that cannot afford it...



We are talking about big businesses, not poor people.


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## Sakitoshi (Sep 9, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Well, it's only reasonable.  I mean, how can you expect Microsoft to fund the continued fixing of a product they sold?  They've only got ~$133 billion in short term assets and cash/cash equivalents.  How can you expect Microsoft to produce a product that isn't fundamentally broken and open to exploit?  Obviously, after a decade they have every right to just call it a lost cause and...continue using the same base code base for another version of the same product which they continue to sell.  I mean, that's how capitalism works, right?


"I payed full for my NES, why did Nintendo stopped making new games for it? only 33 years have passed!"


----------



## tech3475 (Sep 9, 2018)

They did this with XP so it's not really a surprise.

I just wonder how long before x vulnerability cripples y organisation.


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## hamohamo (Sep 9, 2018)

There's not one reason to use windows 7 except having 2gb of ram or less.


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## tech3475 (Sep 9, 2018)

hamohamo said:


> There's not one reason to use windows 7 except having 2gb of ram or less.



Software compatibility will always be one reason why I keep a copy on stand by.

Businesses will also likely continue to use W7 because of the cost of licensing, testing, hardware/software upgrades, etc. We still use XP on some of our systems at work but they're restricted to certain tasks.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

Windows as a whole is garbage, I couldn't image having that OS as my daily driver.


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## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> The offer to "get windows x" did end 2 years ago, yes some tools still work... But then again you are risking getting your legal win 7 license banned if Microsoft one day wants to take action against those who abused the tools. Which i doubt.


If you know what you're doing, there's no risk to your legal Windows 7 license. In addition, Microsoft cannot currently discern between a Windows 10 upgrade done now and a Windows 10 upgrade done two years ago.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Canna said:


> What a absolute joke,, charging people who purchased there license to own a copy of windows with promised updates and feature support just to Kick it to the curb, but like other releases support ends.. how about you give windows users on 7 a free update to 10 before you shut it down... Like you offered to us in the beginning...
> 
> Then there windows 10 which i am using ,
> But its full of Microsoft spyware... Sending your private data to them..
> ...


Dude, you've had 3 years to do the upgrade, and as far as I'm aware the accessibility upgrade method still nets you a free copy of Windows 10. If you haven't upgraded yet that's on you, not Microsoft


----------



## slaphappygamer (Sep 9, 2018)

My laptop is so old, I can’t run Windows 10 well. My laptop hasnt been “approved” for Windows 10. Remember when windows10 had a “compatibility check”. Yes, I’m not on the list. My laptop runs great with windows7. Since I can’t use windows10 and windows7 will no longer be supported, am I just supposed to go out and get a new computer? Software kills hardware......again. Ffff u, I’m keeping my machine.


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## nolimits59 (Sep 9, 2018)

i've a Q6600 (Its from 2007 if some doesnt know) with HDD and 4gb of RAM using Windows 10 for my living room, smooth af, i've a friend who got a laptop with a old dualcore from like 2007-2008, 2-4gb of ram, W10 work flawlessly, i'm really getting tired of theses "pseudo computer ingeneers" who can't use a PC and state that their voice/opinion make law...


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

Windows10 is a lot more stable than it was in 2015. I used to tell people not to upgrade.


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## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

For those of you who will not and/or cannot upgrade to Windows 10, I recommend one of the following:

If your computer isn't compatible with Windows 10, research why not and potentially fix it.
If the incompatibility cannot be easily fixed, buy a new computer.
Switch over to an actively supported Linux distro like Ubuntu or Lubuntu.
It's dangerous to stay on Windows 7 past January 14, 2020 (15 months from this post).


----------



## Xzi (Sep 9, 2018)

DLC for your operating system.  Peak capitalism right here.  Good thing Valve is working on getting all Steam games running on Linux, Microsoft's greed may force me to make the switch sooner than I expected (on Win10 now).


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## Dominator211 (Sep 9, 2018)

wow just wow, microsoft had it perfect and now we have windows 10. lets hope react OS gets good enough by 2020 if not 2025


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## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> If you know what you're doing, there's no risk to your legal Windows 7 license. In addition, Microsoft cannot currently discern between a Windows 10 upgrade done now and a Windows 10 upgrade done two years ago.



Are you really that naive, to think that MS, cannot discern when a license was first activate or upgraded? Trust me, they do black list keys from time to time.


----------



## Sakitoshi (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> It's dangerous to stay on Windows 7 past January 14, 2020 (15 months from this post).


What part of it is dangerous? is it gonna explode?
Windows 7 will continue to function as well as has been doing for years. This comes from someone currently running 10 and that has a "server" laptop running 7.


----------



## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Are you really that naive, to think that MS, cannot discern when a license was first activate or upgraded? Trust me, they do black list keys from time to time.


In short, one could have accepted the free upgrade offer years ago while postponing any license data being sent to Microsoft's servers, since the generation of GenuineTicket.xml is all done offline using gatherosstate.exe. This means a person can activate Windows 10 online using a legitimately generated GenuineTicket.xml without Microsoft knowing when the aforementioned file was created. Keys, particularly volume license keys, are blacklisted all the time when there's blatant piracy going on, but that's not at all analogous to what we're talking about.

Edit: And again, the above can be done without ever sending your Windows 7 license information to Microsoft, so it's not going to get blacklisted (not that it would anyway).



Sakitoshi said:


> What part of it is dangerous? is it gonna explode?
> Windows 7 will continue to function as well as has been doing for years. This comes from someone currently running 10 and that has a "server" laptop running 7.


From a security perspective, it's dangerous to use an operating system after it no longer receives security updates.


----------



## Sakitoshi (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> From a security perspective, it's dangerous to use an operating system after it no longer receives security updates.


I know, but tell me more about that "security" that updates bring.
I've been working with computers since I was a young lad and security has always been something that everyone talks about but no one can really grasp or explain. Those security updates aren't meant for home users, but enterprises.


----------



## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

Sakitoshi said:


> I know, but tell me more about that "security" that updates bring.
> I've been working with computers since I was a young lad and security has always been something that everyone talks about but no one can really grasp or explain. Those security updates aren't meant for home users, but enterprises.


Security updates are meant for all users. There are more than enough examples of malware that take advantage of unpatched OS exploits.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> DLC for your operating system.  Peak capitalism right here.  Good thing Valve is working on getting all Steam games running on Linux, Microsoft's greed may force me to make the switch sooner than I expected (on Win10 now).


"Greed", as if this isn't them doing more than what they initially promised anyway


----------



## Maid_Nanashi (Sep 9, 2018)

lol they really want us to get windows 10...fuck that. Yeah there ways around it...like always si I don't care about this dick move


----------



## Captain_N (Sep 9, 2018)

I dont update my os. This mini i'm using with with win 7 ult 64 bit installed in 2012 has never been updated and its great. My windows xp sp2 desktop never received any updates. It has been used and ran 24/7 for 11 years. My 2009 gaming laptop with win 7 ult 64 never received an update and its great. Yeah i dont bother with updates or OS reinstall. I update clients pc i fix if they want it. Once my shit is running great i leave it alone.
If there is a major thing like the w32.blaster then ill patch just that. 
The cpu exploites dont scared me. Nothing important is on any of my computers connected to a network. My good stuff is stored on disc on my shelf/hidden and on a never connected computer. Thats how i roll


----------



## Sakitoshi (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> Security updates are meant for all users. There are more than enough examples of malware that take advantage of unpatched OS exploits.


There we are again, you are explaining nothing.
We can also say that there are more than enough examples of illnesses in the world, but we aren't vaccinated for all of them.

I've even been in enterprises that completely disable windows updates because they do nothing but annoy users asking them to restart in the middle of the work.
Updates do prevent from some nasty malwares, but why restart when you can have a much more efficient software to deal with the problem?


----------



## hamohamo (Sep 9, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> Software compatibility will always be one reason why I keep a copy on stand by.
> 
> Businesses will also likely continue to use W7 because of the cost of licensing, testing, hardware/software upgrades, etc. We still use XP on some of our systems at work but they're restricted to certain tasks.


Every software that can be used on w7 can be used on 10


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 9, 2018)

Sakitoshi said:


> "I payed full for my NES, why did Nintendo stopped making new games for it? only 33 years have passed!"



Bad analogy is bad.  Nintendo didn't stop supporting the NES, leave it a security nightmare that can be exploited by web sites (or possibly just malicious hosts attack tcp/ip ports), and sell you how you really need to buy NES 10 (free for a limited time) for them to actually continue to fix the bugs.  No one is asking Microsoft to add new features or continue to develop games for Windows 7--that's up to other developers to decide.  The point is if Microsoft' owns" Windows 7, then they should "own" all its problems.


----------



## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

Sakitoshi said:


> There we are again, you are explaining nothing.
> We can also say that there are more than enough examples of illnesses in the world, but we aren't vaccinated for all of them.


You're being disingenuous when you say I'm not explaining anything. Malware can and does take advantage of operating system vulnerabilities. Logically, it's a good idea to patch those vulnerabilities. I also don't understand your point about real-world illnesses. Illnesses exist, so it's a good idea to get vaccinations when possible.



Sakitoshi said:


> I've even been in enterprises that completely disable windows updates because they do nothing but annoy users asking them to restart in the middle of the work.
> Updates do prevent from some nasty malwares, but why restart when you can have a much more efficient software to deal with the problem?


Enterprises shouldn't do that. Not applying security updates is a big part of why WannaCry happened. I'm not sure what you're suggesting.



kuwanger said:


> Bad analogy is bad.  Nintendo didn't stop supporting the NES, leave it a security nightmare that can be exploited by web sites (or possibly just malicious hosts attack tcp/ip ports), and sell you how you really need to buy NES 10 (free for a limited time) for them to actually continue to fix the bugs.  No one is asking Microsoft to add new features or continue to develop games for Windows 7--that's up to other developers to decide.  The point is if Microsoft' owns" Windows 7, then they should "own" all its problems.


What do people want from Microsoft?


----------



## Sakitoshi (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> You're being disingenuous when you say I'm not explaining anything. Malware can and does take advantage of operating system vulnerabilities. Logically, it's a good idea to patch those vulnerabilities. I also don't understand your point about real-world illnesses. Illnesses exist, so it's a good idea to get vaccinations when possible.


You really are explaining anything, you are saying something like updates are good because are good and malware is bad because is bad.
The illnesses analogy was to prove that not even in the real world you need to be 100% protected, you only need to take vaccines (updates) for the illnesses that are relevant (only important security holes).



Lacius said:


> Enterprises shouldn't do that. Not applying security updates is a big part of why WannaCry happened. I'm not sure what you're suggesting.


Shouldn't, but they do. They know that security updates are pretty useless unless it's for something that can realistically cause damage like Meltdown and Spectre.


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> What do people want from Microsoft?



From a legal perspective?  The same thing as basically every company required to provide warranty of their goods:  if you sell a knowingly defective good, list its defects.  If you end a support program for fixing those defects, give a good reason why (just saying n years has passed is not generally sufficient, although that may be sufficient if you were upfront about it).  Simply put, not even Microsoft knows all the defects in its own goods.  It has no idea of the scale of how many defects they've fixed vs how many are left.  Hence, they have in no way communicated to their customers the risks of buying Windows 7.  By the same extension, they've not communicated to their customers the risks of buying Windows 10 because it's based on the Windows 8.1/8/7 code base.

With that degree of uncertainty, it would seem like they would be legally obligated to either (1) offer a refund or (2) offer some sort of free upgrade path.  I don't know if Windows 10 would be a sufficient upgrade because it inherently is a different OS in many ways, most specifically in the way it forces updates (as much as it can) and posts ads using you as a monetary source.  The last part, not being opt out, seems like a sufficient basis to argue that if there were a free upgrade option made to continue to get defect fixes, it'd have to include an opt out option for any such monetization scheme.

Edit:  Put this in perspective, over Windows 7's entire life nearly every month there's been a "defect patch".  Ie, over the span of a decade there's been over 100 defect patches.  If you check CVE for Windows 7 you'll see listed 968 vulnerabilities.  Even presuming there might be several duplicates, it makes clear that most of those defect patches have included bundles of multiple patches for vulnerabilities.  Do you think after all that Windows 7 is now secure?  This whole discussion is precisely because we all agree that that's highly unlikely.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> In short, one could have accepted the free upgrade offer years ago while postponing any license data being sent to Microsoft's servers, since the generation of GenuineTicket.xml is all done offline using gatherosstate.exe. This means a person can activate Windows 10 online using a legitimately generated GenuineTicket.xml without Microsoft knowing when the aforementioned file was created. Keys, particularly volume license keys, are blacklisted all the time when there's blatant piracy going on, but that's not at all analogous to what we're talking about.
> 
> Edit: And again, the above can be done without ever sending your Windows 7 license information to Microsoft, so it's not going to get blacklisted (not that it would anyway).



oh i see the method you mean, that's an old method... Try to do that method today on a Win 7 PC that never upgraded to Win 10 and be ready to get a lot a "0x803F7001" error.
Microsoft never stays the same, improve things to avoid exploits.
Black listing do happen to license for particular users, is not only for OEM license or Volume License.

In the end for anyone that wants to get Win 10, the faster way and cheaper way is to get a "gray market" key like the house of the cd keys and forget about work arounds.



Sakitoshi said:


> I know, but tell me more about that "security" that updates bring.
> I've been working with computers since I was a young lad and security has always been something that everyone talks about but no one can really grasp or explain. Those security updates aren't meant for home users, but enterprises.



LOL really, you think that updates that fix exploits in the OS are only for enterprises user?


----------



## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

Sakitoshi said:


> You really are explaining anything, you are saying something like updates are good because are good and malware is bad because is bad.


That's all it takes to demonstrate the need for security updates.

Security vulnerabilities that are exploited by malware = bad
Patching those security vulnerabilities so malware doesn't exploit them = good



Sakitoshi said:


> The illnesses analogy was to prove that not even in the real world you need to be 100% protected, you only need to take vaccines (updates) for the illnesses that are relevant (only important security holes).


Any security vulnerability that could potentially be exploited by malware is relevant and should be patched. Also, and not to beat this dead horse of a false analogy, but if vaccines were an intangible and instantaneous resource like security updates, we'd probably be vaccinating against everything.



Sakitoshi said:


> Shouldn't, but they do. They know that security updates are pretty useless unless it's for something that can realistically cause damage like Meltdown and Spectre.


WannaCry, and other attacks that weren't widely reported on the news, would like a word with you.



kuwanger said:


> From a legal perspective?  The same thing as basically every company required to provide warranty of their goods:  if you sell a knowingly defective good, lists its defects.  If you end a support program for fixing those defects, give a good reason why (just saying n years has passed is not generally sufficient, although that may be sufficient if you were upfront about it).  Simply put, not even Microsoft knows all the defects in its own goods.  It has no idea of the scale of how many defects they've fixed vs how many are left.  Hence, they have in no way communicated to their customers the risks of buying Windows 7.  By the same extension, they've not communicated to their customers the risks of buying Windows 10 because it's based on the Windows 8.1/8/7 code base.
> 
> With that degree of uncertainty, it would seem like they would be legally obligated to either (1) offer a refund or (2) offer some sort of free upgrade path.  I don't know if Windows 10 would be a sufficient upgrade because it inherently is a different OS in many ways, most specifically in the way it forces updates (as much as it can) and posts ads using you as a monetary source.  The last part, not being opt out, seems like a sufficient basis to argue that if there were a free upgrade option made to continue to get defect fixes, it'd have to include an opt out option for any such monetization scheme.


A few things:

Microsoft fully acknowledges that no operating system is 100% secure, and you accept these risks as a consumer of their products.
The fact that Microsoft is dropping support for Windows 7 in 2020 is not news. Anyone who purchased and/or used Windows 7 accepted these terms. They generally support an operating system for ten years, and they're very transparent about this.
Microsoft did offer a free upgrade path from Windows 7 to Windows 10.
Microsoft had no legal obligation to offer a free upgrade to Windows 10, and they have no legal obligation to offer a refund. No longer offering security updates for older operating systems is not a monetization scheme. To do so would be unsustainable, not to mention pointless.



WildDog said:


> oh i see the method you mean, that's an old method... Try to do that method today on a Win 7 PC that never upgraded to Win 10 and be ready to get a lot a "0x803F7001" error.


The method I described still works (if you know what you're doing), probably because they don't want to cut off users who took advantage of the upgrade offer when it was still available but never had their HWID sent to Microsoft's servers. However, there are better methods out there to activate Windows 10, like HWID generation.



WildDog said:


> Black listing do happen to license for particular users, is not only for OEM license or Volume License.


Blacklisting happens for very specific reasons unrelated to what we're talking about.



WildDog said:


> In the end for anyone that wants to get Win 10, the faster way and cheaper way is to get a "gray market" key like the house of the cd keys and forget about work arounds.


HWID generation is probably the easiest way to legitimately activate Windows 10, which doesn't require upgrading a previously installed OS.


----------



## bodefuceta (Sep 9, 2018)

I live in a small town and used to format install some people's OS, for free. I tried installing Windows 10 for some people, but they all return with something broken not long after. Over 90% of people are not fine using a modern and stable (this excludes all proprietary-) system, therefore I discontinued this service. Thanks MS.


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 9, 2018)

Lacius said:


> A few things:
> 
> Microsoft fully acknowledges that no operating system is 100% secure, and you accept these risks as a consumer of their product.




Microsoft doesn't make the laws.  Microsoft can say all it likes "caveat emptor", but that's not the law.



Lacius said:


> 2. The fact that Microsoft is dropping support for Windows 7 in 2020 is not news. Anyone who purchased and/or used Windows 7 accepted these terms. They generally support an operating system for ten years, and they're very transparent about this.



That may get them off the hook, but again considering the scope of defects in their product and the need in society to not have a bunch of systems with insecure OSs, it may still be incumbent upon Microsoft to continue to provide support in some way.  Fundamentally, Windows is a critical piece of software in the economy, and nominally we do not allow for critical products with critical flaws to continue to exist without some sort of push back by the government because the harm to society as a whole should be born by the source of that harm, the product maker.  Functionally, this either comes in the form of regulatory laws or lawsuits.  Of course, the US government is very pro business, so it's unlikely they'll actually do anything.  The EU is a different story.



Lacius said:


> 3. Microsoft did offer a free upgrade path from Windows 7 to Windows 10.



The critical word in the statement is "did".  And again, I'm not sure if Windows 10 would qualify as sufficiently synonymous to cover Microsoft's obligation.



Lacius said:


> Microsoft had no legal obligation to offer a free upgrade to Windows 10, and they have no legal obligation to offer a refund.



The courts have not so far found such, but that does not mean the courts if brought with a challenge to that effect would not agree.  What I'm making is a legal argument (IANAL) based upon my limited understanding and experience upon what not only could be interpreted as legally true but certainly something that should be pushed to be true.  It is entirely unreasonable to sell defective software for a decade, offer incomplete patches to fix it, and leave people to "upgrade" by possibly paying them yet more money.  That they chose to offer a free upgrade path [for a limited time] shouldn't be optional or sufficient.

Anyways, that's my feelings on the situation.


----------



## Lacius (Sep 9, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Microsoft doesn't make the laws.  Microsoft can say all it likes "caveat emptor", but that's not the law.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're explicitly buying ten years of support, then Microsoft has no legal obligation to provide you anything more than that. End of story.


----------



## ihaveahax (Sep 10, 2018)

Windows 7 is decade-old software and any software development company would want to leave behind such an old program/operating system. Since at least 2010 we knew the exact end-of-life dates would be 2015 (mainstream) and 2020 (extended). This was going to happen and it's just closer now. And was no surprise that custom support would happen in a similar fashion to Windows XP.

But none of that matters because people will be upset anyway (even though Microsoft supports their operating systems longer than almost anyone else).


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (Sep 10, 2018)

With this move, it might make people more enticed to try out Linux/Android on their PCs.

Paid updates.. lol. Microsoft might as well expand the Gold membership to Windows then.


----------



## Lacius (Sep 10, 2018)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> With this move, it might make people more enticed to try out Linux/Android on their PCs.
> 
> Paid updates.. lol. Microsoft might as well expand the Gold membership to Windows then.


Again, Microsoft offered a free upgrade to Windows 10, and it can still be done if you know what you're doing.


----------



## tbb043 (Sep 10, 2018)

SnAQ said:


> I will never understand why people doesn't want a better OS.



They do, it's just newer =/= better



Lacius said:


> upgrade



"upgrade" that made the pc I tried it on crash every 10 seconds


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 10, 2018)

Lacius said:


> If you're explicitly buying ten years of support, then Microsoft has no legal obligation to provide you anything more than that. End of story.



Except people weren't buying "ten years of support" if they bought a copy of Windows 7 on October 31, 2016 (the last day Microsoft sold Windows 7).  And again, in the end, Microsoft isn't the sold decider of their legal obligations.  If in 2021 someone sustains substantial unexpected harm from the use of Windows 7, they may well have a legal case against Microsoft--the EULA may or may not offer them protection.  So, it's not as simple as "End of story".


----------



## Lacius (Sep 10, 2018)

kuwanger said:


> Except people weren't buying "ten years of support" if they bought a copy of Windows 7 on October 31, 2016 (the last day Microsoft sold Windows 7).  And again, in the end, Microsoft isn't the sold decider of their legal obligations.  If in 2021 someone sustains substantial unexpected harm from the use of Windows 7, they may well have a legal case against Microsoft--the EULA may or may not offer them protection.  So, it's not as simple as "End of story".


You're right. They were explicitly buying a product receiving updates throughout the window of July 22, 2009 to January 14, 2020. There is no legal case against Microsoft.


----------



## DKB (Sep 10, 2018)

_KMS ACTIVATOR INTENSIFIES_


----------



## Lacius (Sep 10, 2018)

DKB said:


> _KMS ACTIVATOR INTENSIFIES_


There are better and more permanent ways to activate Windows 10.


----------



## DKB (Sep 10, 2018)

Lacius said:


> There are better and more permanent ways to activate Windows 10.



I know. I just bought a key for windows 10 for like 5 bucks. I used to use KMS Activator to all hell before though. Until I got all fearmongered into the whole virus and keylogger shit.


----------



## Hells Malice (Sep 10, 2018)

Basically a non-issue for consumers. Everyone using windows should be on Windows 10. Windows 7 is just all around inferior at this point.

I was initially resistant to the thought, but after being forced to use a windows 10 laptop for 3 months I realized I was an idiot and that Windows 10 is much better. 

Makes sense to make people pay to keep using an archaic, outdated OS. It's time to move on.


----------



## PrincessLillie (Sep 10, 2018)

At this point, if people want to remain safe, they'll have to do one of the following:

Upgrade to Windows 10
Switch to any Linux distro of your choice (I recommend Ubuntu)
Pay the monthly fee (but honestly, who wants to do that?) or
Stop using your PC altogether, which I'm sure many of you don't want to do.
If you don't want to support Microsoft, that's fine. Install a Linux distro and don't use Windows or pirate Windows 10. But if you keep using this dinosaur without paying the monthly Microsoft Tax™, you're in for a world of pain and malware.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 10, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "Greed", as if this isn't them doing more than what they initially promised anyway


Yes and no.  Given the cost increase year over year, all they're doing is using a different tactic to push Windows 10 on people.  There's no good reason Microsoft couldn't support each of their OSes for considerably longer than they do.  Especially with Windows 7 if they're going to be continuing to support Windows 8 (for free) anyway.  Somebody could probably patch those updates to be Win7 compatible easily.


----------



## chrisrlink (Sep 10, 2018)

what prevents us from making our own W7 updates I remember seeing an "unofficial" Windows XP SP4 well there is legal rammifications but it's MS's fault if the user takes the driver seat after MS ducked an rolled out of the speeding car so to put an analogy to you MS is going to charge you with carjacking even if they jumped out of the driver's seat and your about to go over a cliff? sounds about right


----------



## tech3475 (Sep 10, 2018)

hamohamo said:


> Every software that can be used on w7 can be used on 10



While its good, its not 100%, Ive had some issues with hardware which only received “beta” support, mainly my asus d2x and drm like securom is intentionally blocked, albeit with good reasons.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Yes and no.  Given the cost increase year over year, all they're doing is using a different tactic to push Windows 10 on people.  There's no good reason Microsoft couldn't support each of their OSes for considerably longer than they do.  Especially with Windows 7 if they're going to be continuing to support Windows 8 (for free) anyway.  Somebody could probably patch those updates to be Win7 compatible easily.


Eh... Maybe. I know that at it's core, Windows is still just NT, but it's split into a major revision every time there's been a new version of Windows if I recall correctly. It'd be a bit much to assume that anything related to hotfixing the underlying system would be backwards compatible with previous versions


----------



## kkcheong (Sep 10, 2018)

Skittyusedcovet said:


> Is it bad I want to continue to use a dinosaur? Screw Microsoft Im going to keep doing things my way and continue to use my dinosaur as I please. They dont get my money either.


The upgrade is free. You are just a dinosaur. Admit it.


----------



## rensenware (Sep 10, 2018)

SnAQ said:


> Seems reasonable, atleast they offer the people living in the past the possibility of continuing to do so.
> 
> I will never understand why people doesn't want a better OS.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 via Tapatalk


i mean sure it's better if you want all your data sent to xhi jinping, president of china


----------



## Canna (Sep 10, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Dude, you've had 3 years to do the upgrade, and as far as I'm aware the accessibility upgrade method still nets you a free copy of Windows 10. If you haven't upgraded yet that's on you, not Microsoft


Hey read before you reply im already on 10 and i dont need the upgrade,
 i even mentioned it in the post you replyed to, and thanks but im fully aware of what stand or stood..
So nothing is on me haha


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

Canna said:


> Hey read before you reply im already on 10 and i dont need the upgrade,
> i even mentioned it in the post you replyed to, and thanks but im fully aware of what stand or stood..
> So nothing is on me haha


Not gonna lie I've been busy all day, I read the first paragraph, which was relavant to what I said. I obviously didn't read past that

But, along that tangent:


jupitteer said:


> i mean sure it's better if you want all your data sent to xhi jinping, president of china


Many, if not all of the privacy-breaching functions that exist in Windows 10 (aside from Cortana) existed in 7 and 8. The main difference in 10 is that they were finally caught, and as a consequence presented an option to turn some of those functions OFF directly via the settings. I don't see how that's not a point in the favor of 10, in terms of objectively comparing iterations of the same base OS


----------



## Song of storms (Sep 10, 2018)

People are pissed because Windows 7 won't receive security updates in a year and a half, but say that updating to Windows 10 is useless because security updates are useless.



Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Sep 10, 2018)

I think people are ignoring that this is to punish businesses who refuse to upgrade, not regular consumers. The source notes that it's for Win 7 Pro VL customers, which are usually businesses, schools, or other commercial settings with demand for a large amount of keys.


----------



## Thunder Hawk (Sep 10, 2018)

sks316 said:


> At this point, if people want to remain safe, they'll have to do one of the following:
> 
> Upgrade to Windows 10
> Switch to any Linux distro of your choice (I recommend Ubuntu)
> ...


5. Pirate the updates.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 10, 2018)

Thunder Hawk said:


> 5. Pirate the updates.



Well that would be..huh??


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 10, 2018)

SnAQ said:


> Seems reasonable, atleast they offer the people living in the past the possibility of continuing to do so.
> 
> I will never understand why people doesn't want a better OS.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 via Tapatalk


"Better" is subjective. Emulators and a lot of older games run way better on my Win7 OS versus my Win10 install, on the same machine, with the same hardware and data.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> "Better" is subjective. Emulators and a lot of older games run way better on my Win7 OS versus my Win10 install, on the same machine, with the same hardware and data.


Which emulators? But yeah I could see older games doing better on 7


----------



## Song of storms (Sep 10, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> "Better" is subjective. Emulators and a lot of older games run way better on my Win7 OS versus my Win10 install, on the same machine, with the same hardware and data.


I remember when Vista came out and a lot of the games I played from the previous millennium didn't work. You know what I did? I installed a virtual machine. My PC wasn't that powerful but Vista and the virtual machine still ran fine. Why would you stick to an old, outdated OS just to do something you can easily do on a virtual machine?


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 10, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> I remember when Vista came out and a lot of the games I played from the previous millennium didn't work. You know what I did? I installed a virtual machine. My PC wasn't that powerful but Vista and the virtual machine still ran fine. Why would you stick to an old, outdated OS just to do something you can easily do on a virtual machine?


Because I'd rather just slap another hard disk in it and install rather than go through the headache of setting up passthoughs and shit.



TotalInsanity4 said:


> Which emulators? But yeah I could see older games doing better on 7


Cemu is the big offender. BotW is practically crippled on Windows 10 for me, I have to lock it DOWN to dual-core, 1080p 30 FPS. It pretty much chokes to death somehow unless I force it to go slow. On Win7, I can get it running on triple-core, 1440p 45-60FPS. Dolphin saw improvements, too, but since Dolphin is pretty optimized already, I guess it doesn't matter. But older DX9-11 games like Borderlands 2 and the 32-bit version of Skyrim are night and day. My modded Skyrim setup becomes a sluggish mess on W10, especially with post-processing (which also breaks on Win10), thanks to the crappy DX9 integration in the OS. Borderlands 2 grinds to a 15-FPS slideshow during firefights with PhysX enabled. On Windows 7, BL2 is a constant, butter-smooth 60. So, in general, yeah, I've found Win7 to be superior for emulation and most older games. Windows 8.1 is actually a viable option, too.


----------



## Pachee (Sep 10, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Are you kidding me? you can do that with gpedit.msc (which is not an "extra hack")  once it is disable.  Windows update won't update the store nor any app you got from the store..
> 
> Most of those "extra hacks"  or "uber ultra win 10 tweak!!" are just scripts that do it for you,  you are not "hacking" windows, just using functions that are already there and should be common knowledge for most not so basic user...
> 
> In fact Microsoft store is one of the things i disable in all win 10 computers, once disable it won't update and yes some files  are not deleted will waste the amazing and uber space of  910KB!!!!!!!!!


False again and you have no idea what you are talking about. Security updates will be delivered to system packages no matter your policies, and they will stay installed no matter if you "just disabled" them.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 10, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Because I'd rather just slap another hard disk in it and install rather than go through the headache of setting up passthoughs and shit.
> 
> 
> Cemu is the big offender. BotW is practically crippled on Windows 10 for me, I have to lock it DOWN to dual-core, 1080p 30 FPS. It pretty much chokes to death somehow unless I force it to go slow. On Win7, I can get it running on triple-core, 1440p 45-60FPS. Dolphin saw improvements, too, but since Dolphin is pretty optimized already, I guess it doesn't matter. But older DX9-11 games like Borderlands 2 and the 32-bit version of Skyrim are night and day. My modded Skyrim setup becomes a sluggish mess on W10, especially with post-processing (which also breaks on Win10), thanks to the crappy DX9 integration in the OS. Borderlands 2 grinds to a 15-FPS slideshow during firefights with PhysX enabled. On Windows 7, BL2 is a constant, butter-smooth 60. So, in general, yeah, I've found Win7 to be superior for emulation and most older games. Windows 8.1 is actually a viable option, too.



I'd have stuck with Windows 7 if the damn video display drivers and/or potential corrupt system files didn't keep soft-locking my PC every time my screen saver and standby mode actually effing worked, believe me. But, seeing as I never did  narrow down the issue despite numerous driver reinstalls and changing video inputs, yeah, I had to figure out something.  Win 10 on an SSD, there's no going back for me. My PC isn't even powerful enough to run CEMU anyway.

Haswell Core i7 4770
eVGA GTX 960
16 GB DDR3 SDRAM

Yeaaaaaah


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 10, 2018)

Compatibility is one of the main reasons to stick on 7, I love Total War and the older games that include SafeDisc simply don't work on W10, unless you buy the Steam edition.


----------



## xdarkmario (Sep 10, 2018)

this is the funniest thing i have read all day.
its like when they jacked up the price of cigarettes to a skyrocking price to "deter people from buying a health hazardous intake" when its just a ambiguous way to say "you wont fall into our plan and upgrade so to keep your old os you must continuously pay us"


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 10, 2018)

Windows 7 is Microsoft's final sane operation system, both in UI and in functionality.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 10, 2018)

Pachee said:


> False again and you have no idea what you are talking about. Security updates will be delivered to system packages no matter your policies, and they will stay installed no matter if you "just disabled" them.



The one who doesn't even know what is talking about is you...  Yes it does, if you disable/remove the store, it should not get any update for it nor even have it back  

There was an old bug, that made those disable / remove apps come back and get updated.  Read there.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...agement/remove-provisioned-apps-during-update 

Issue was fixed a good time ago.

But you know what? Keep thinking what you want an using an outdated OS.


----------



## hamohamo (Sep 10, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> While its good, its not 100%, Ive had some issues with hardware which only received “beta” support, mainly my asus d2x and drm like securom is intentionally blocked, albeit with good reasons.


iirc every single software that 7 can use, 10 can use too. but for xp it's another story.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 10, 2018)

hamohamo said:


> iirc every single software that 7 can use, 10 can use too. but for xp it's another story.


Securom and safedisc are not supported by Windows 10, it was blocked by Microsoft because they had vulnerabilities. There are some unofficial workarounds for playing those games.


----------



## Pachee (Sep 10, 2018)

WildDog said:


> The one who doesn't even know what is talking about is you...  Yes it does, if you disable/remove the store, it should not get any update for it nor even have it back
> 
> There was an old bug, that made those disable / remove apps come back and get updated.  Read there.
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...agement/remove-provisioned-apps-during-update
> ...


Try to uninstall Cortana using said methods, or even something as useless as Windows Feedback. Then reply back to me.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 10, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> I'd have stuck with Windows 7 if the damn video display drivers and/or potential corrupt system files didn't keep soft-locking my PC every time my screen saver and standby mode actually effing worked, believe me. But, seeing as I never did  narrow down the issue despite numerous driver reinstalls and changing video inputs, yeah, I had to figure out something.  Win 10 on an SSD, there's no going back for me. My PC isn't even powerful enough to run CEMU anyway.
> 
> Haswell Core i7 4770
> eVGA GTX 960
> ...


My Win10 is on SSD as well, I enjoy the speed. Just seems to me like the more and more major update releases M$ gives 10, the more bloated and laggy it gets. The OS is a far cry from the heady, speedy days of summer 2015. You can't even get an official "clean" ISO anymore, they load it with their shovelware. Only way I saw to have an easy, light Win10 install was "finding" a copy of Win10 Enterprise. Trying that out on a netbook for low-spec stress testing, good so far. Anyway, your system might be beefy enough for Cemu. Have you tried recently?

As for the actual topic here, eh. I'm pretty sure we all saw this coming, they did something similar with XP back in the day, if I recall...


----------



## WildDog (Sep 10, 2018)

Pachee said:


> Try to uninstall Cortana using said methods, or even something as useless as Windows Feedback. Then reply back to me.


Are you kidding me?  LOL



Pachee said:


> I am not talking about "services", what i meant are the system packages stored in windows\servicing\packages. You can't chose to not update them, you can't remove them without extra hacks. Try to remove the Windows Store



 You said Microsoft store... i did prove you that it can be removed and there is no need for "extra haaxxx"  now that you see you are wrong you change to cortana?
No, Cortana, Edge or Feedback cannot be removed, only disabled.


----------



## pasc (Sep 10, 2018)

SnAQ said:


> I will never understand why people don't want a better OS.



Mayyybe, because of software incompatibility even with Windows "compatibility mode".

Or perhaps because ones liked features in the old windows that cannot be restored in future iterations.

Sure Virtual Machines are a solution, but I still see Windows XP running on some workforce PC's nowadays,
there is a reason for that: It works just aswell, but there is no money to be made from it...

_It should be ones choice what OS they want to run_. Not being bound to the graphic cards and etc. drivers from the vendors which "oh so" only work with the 'newest hardware'.

[Rant]
People don't understand that you can only "improve" so much upon something that is already very solid.
Yet Sofware Devs can't be expected to support every OS. (Ask anyone using a jailbroken iOS device on how the programs keep breaking every iOS update... geh)

But hey. Whatever works for people. Because new isn't always better 

Selling "new software" is always a tactic to sell new hardware aswell, sadly most don't understand that...
F##ing obsolescence
[/Rant]


----------



## sarkwalvein (Sep 10, 2018)

[Rant]
People here argue with some "amusing" "twists"/information... it looks like they were born yesterday... or perhaps they think everybody else is stupid not to know the obvious?

It's starting to look like a conspiracy obsession thread a la "flat earthers".
[/Rant]


----------



## Pachee (Sep 10, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Are you kidding me?  LOL
> 
> You said Microsoft store... i did prove you that it can be removed and there is no need for "extra haaxxx"  now that you see you are wrong you change to cortana?
> No, Cortana, Edge or Feedback cannot be removed, only disabled.


Ms store, whatever, they are all bloatware crap. My point is that:


Pachee said:


> WildDog said:
> 
> 
> > All that "bloat" you don't have to install it. In fact you can select not to be installed and oter can be deactivate, like Xbox Dvr.
> ...


You can't remove all the bloatware without using extra hacks like uninstall_wim tool or editing config files to fool windows to think these packages are not required by the system (editing mum files or something).
Also even then it seems that Microsoft is taking measures against this since they have added a new DB in Windows 10 Anniversary which flags components and will not let you update windows once it notices certain components are removed. So my point stands.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Sep 10, 2018)

Pachee said:


> So my point stands.


What was your point again?


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 10, 2018)

upgraded my daily used machine to linux. dont regret it.
this is good news tho- some people would rather pay that than upgrade, as upgrading might be too expensive for them


----------



## tech3475 (Sep 10, 2018)

hamohamo said:


> iirc every single software that 7 can use, 10 can use too. but for xp it's another story.



IIRC I gave a specific example where they blocked something by default.

We're talking software here, you may have no problems while others do for various reasons and I don't see a problem keeping a copy on stand by should I ever encounter something which doesn't seem to work in W10 as a form a diagnosing or running it e.g. like I did to test  PowerDVD 10 for BD playback which broke in W8.x.



natanelho said:


> upgraded my daily used machine to linux. dont regret it.
> this is good news tho- some people would rather pay that than upgrade, as upgrading might be too expensive for them



The problem is software, even with something like WINE, compatibility can be an issue.

I suspect grey markets may see a surge in sales, people will buy new computers or worse people will just use unprotected systems.

I once had to deal with something a couple of years ago wondering why their new phone wouldn't work with their ancient XP machine.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 10, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> The problem is software, even with something like WINE, compatibility can be an issue.


Is that such an issue now?

Firefox, chrome and such with adblock and all that jazz work just fine.

Microsoft's stranglehold over the office market has been broken and between libre office, google docs and whatever else most do OK.

Email is mostly a browser issue and similarly outlook has been gutted for most and I am mostly seeing exchange in a legacy context in businesses these days (though that might be more Microsoft's withdrawal from small-medium enterprise).

Free video editor wise I would say Linux does better than Windows these days, give or take my beloved avisynth. Mainstream commercial editors are not bad either.

Image editor wise GIMP vs photoshop is a serious debate (almost feels like open office/libreoffice vs MS office back around the time of the libre fork), however that it can even be one says much to me.

Printers do fairly well, and as most people replace them rather than replace cartridges or toner it is not such an issue there either.

At this point we are mostly left with do you absolutely need adobe or want high end PC games?


----------



## linuxares (Sep 10, 2018)

This is for companies. Especially companies with special software that is custom made and only work said OS. Before they gotten a working version for like Windows 10. It's good they have this option.


----------



## TheMCNerd2017 (Sep 10, 2018)

Never expected Microsoft to do something like this. I thought they would have released a subscription-based version of Windows 10.


----------



## tech3475 (Sep 10, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Is that such an issue now?
> 
> Firefox, chrome and such with adblock and all that jazz work just fine.
> 
> ...



Things like Web Browsers are fine but for everything else YMMV as it depends on your preferences, usage, etc e.g. I play games and I've needed to use windows only software over the years e.g. when I was at uni, I use PSP for photo editing (Windows only), etc.

Personally I also prefer Office over Libreoffice (the latter is what we're supplied with at work and it can be a pain at times, so BYOD is normal). Speaking of work we use a bespoke Windows based software as a core part of our store operations, otherwise I reckon we could switch over to Linux in certain areas.

For the record, I do use Linux on my Server (unRAID) and on the side with VMs/dual boots.


----------



## Pluupy (Sep 10, 2018)

Ah yes Windows 10. The operating system that removes features to ruin the quality of life of users than make it easier.


----------



## PrincessLillie (Sep 10, 2018)

Thunder Hawk said:


> 5. Pirate the updates.


Yes, but... Why?
If you're gonna pirate, at least pirate the newer version of Windows.


----------



## CoinKillerL (Sep 10, 2018)

what the acutal fuck is this


----------



## sarkwalvein (Sep 10, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> what the acutal fuck is this


The classic "things were better back in my day, you know cars were actual cars made of metal not this plastic things!" (points at a rusty coffin over wheels with a kilometers long hose plugged to the fuel station), "yeah grandpa, you're right! /s".


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> Things like Web Browsers are fine but for everything else YMMV as it depends on your preferences, usage, etc e.g. I play games and I've needed to use windows only software over the years e.g. when I was at uni, I use PSP for photo editing (Windows only), etc.
> 
> Personally I also prefer Office over Libreoffice (the latter is what we're supplied with at work and it can be a pain at times, so BYOD is normal). Speaking of work we use a bespoke Windows based software as a core part of our store operations, otherwise I reckon we could switch over to Linux in certain areas.
> 
> For the record, I do use Linux on my Server (unRAID) and on the side with VMs/dual boots.


Steam is adding a native compatibility layer for Windows games to play on Linux, so even that should become a non-issue


----------



## Subtle Demise (Sep 10, 2018)

pasc said:


> _It should be ones choice what OS they want to run_.


It is your choice. In the past, when a Windows version ended support, it was just done, save for the rare emergency security hole that needs patching. Here you have the choice to still receive support for a legacy OS. My PC is over 8 years old and runs Windows 10 fine. Any older than that, you might as well be running Vista or XP. In my experience, Win10 actually seems to use less resources than 7 ever did, or it's using them more efficiently. My only gripe with 10 is the fullscreen update nags.


Pluupy said:


> Ah yes Windows 10. The operating system that removes features to ruin the quality of life of users than make it easier.


Examples?


----------



## neotank19 (Sep 10, 2018)

TwistedZeon said:


> I already didn't agree with the bloat and it's abundance of "spying" telemetry which can never truly be disabled (I wouldn't trust an os's privacy if you have to use 3rd party programs to disable that stuff).



This is why I will not use windows 10.



BiggieCheese said:


> None of this even matters anyway at this point, thanks to most of Intel’s CPUs getting exploited to hell and back, unless you want to enable different patches that will severely gimp your CPU and borderline turn it into a potato clock, pretty much any concept of security on modern computers has pretty much died for the time being unless you’re an AMD user




Exactly.

I will stick with windows 7, I go with the "if it aint broke" crowd.


----------



## comput3rus3r (Sep 10, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> The classic "things were better back in my day, you know cars were actual cars made of metal not this plastic things!" (points at a rusty coffin over wheels with a kilometers long hose plugged to the fuel station), "yeah grandpa, you're right! /s".


you're making a case against your argument. yes now days cars are made of plastic that when you hit a balloon it dents the entire bumper. Then they want to charge you like all the parts are made out of metal for repair.


neotank19 said:


> This is why I will not use windows 10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's good to also note that Microsoft made it seem like the new intel processors weren't going to work with windows 7. They used language like "not supported" but the reality is that windows 7 is 100% compatible with all new gen Intel chips including 9th gen.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 10, 2018)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6bpfjw/guide_to_make_a_perfect_windows_10_iso/ just gonna leave this here.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 10, 2018)

comput3rus3r said:


> you're making a case against your argument. yes now days cars are made of plastic that when you hit a balloon it dents the entire bumper. Then they want to charge you like all the parts are made out of metal for repair. How about the fact that to change a simple headlight on my BMW the bumper has to be removed?


Crash in a 70s car and then crash in modern car... Then you will see why car made to take the force of the impact.


----------



## comput3rus3r (Sep 10, 2018)

Jack54782 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6bpfjw/guide_to_make_a_perfect_windows_10_iso/ just gonna leave this here.


Here's an even better perfect windows 7 iso



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WildDog said:


> Crash in a 70s car and then crash in modern car... Then you will see why car made to take the force of the impact.


good point. I'll concede.


----------



## tech3475 (Sep 10, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Steam is adding a native compatibility layer for Windows games to play on Linux, so even that should become a non-issue



Im hopeful that is the case eventually, I’d like to see a time when we no longer need a WINE-esque need to constantly check support for software and it gets to the point that it ‘just works’.


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> Im hopeful that is the case eventually, I’d like to see a time when we no longer need a WINE-esque need to constantly check support for software and it gets to the point that it ‘just works’.


Yeah, I think it's vaguely WINE-based, but it's its own derivative and the games will come in their own container


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Sep 10, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Is that such an issue now?
> 
> At this point we are mostly left with do you absolutely need adobe or want high end PC games?



I need Autodesk 3ds Max for work and, unfortunately, Blender is just not a suitable or usable alternative in my case. It's a shame because that's the biggest thing keeping me on Windows.


----------



## Yepi69 (Sep 10, 2018)

''Windows 10 is slow'' sure, if you run it on a stick of butter.
My laptop came with Windows 8 and I downgraded back to 7, and after installing Windows 10 (since beta) and adding another 4GB memory RAM stick (8GB total now) and an SSD and I got my laptop much MUCH faster than 7.
Also UEFI makes things even better + DirectX12


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 10, 2018)

If there's anything I don't like about Windows 10, is the taskbar icons refreshing (damn you, icon cache) every so often, it's distracting and I haven't found a way to fix it. But as far as crashes and stability goes, it's very stable and all my games run on it.


----------



## smf (Sep 10, 2018)

ry755 said:


> Windows 10 and "better OS" don't go together





AmandaRose said:


> Windows 10 better?? Are you deluded in what possible way is windows 10 better lol



After you've used windows 10 for a while then windows 7 feels real ghetto. There are many features that I miss every time I have the misfortune to use windows 7.

Plus they optimised some of the code so they could build arm versions.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 10, 2018)

Jack54782 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6bpfjw/guide_to_make_a_perfect_windows_10_iso/ just gonna leave this here.


I'm actually using Enterprise/LTSB on one of my machines right now, but I really want to try this. I'll certainly wipe a spare drive and install, or use a VM, see how it goes. Comments on Reddit about it look hopeful, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Pluupy (Sep 11, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> It is your choice. In the past, when a Windows version ended support, it was just done, save for the rare emergency security hole that needs patching. Here you have the choice to still receive support for a legacy OS. My PC is over 8 years old and runs Windows 10 fine. Any older than that, you might as well be running Vista or XP. In my experience, Win10 actually seems to use less resources than 7 ever did, or it's using them more efficiently. My only gripe with 10 is the fullscreen update nags.
> 
> Examples?


Instead of giving users the option to halt all updates for individual perusal and manual installation, all users are forced to update. For enterprise, you can dismiss for a later time. Home users do not have that luxury.

In windows 7, all users can simply disable updates or install after you give the OK. The OS gives a warning against it, but you can do it.

So how do you disable updates on windows 10 in a similar manner? By entirely disabling the module that runs windows update in services, a sensitive program not to be fiddled with so casually. Forcing windows update to never open on it's own.

God have mercy on those with internet data limits and recieve updates, which is seemingly becoming a trend in the boonier parts of the big ol united states due to monopolies.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Sep 11, 2018)

Pluupy said:


> Instead of giving users the option to halt all updates for individual perusal and manual installation, all users are forced to update. For enterprise, you can dismiss for a later time. Home users do not have that luxury.
> 
> In windows 7, all users can simply disable updates or install after you give the OK. The OS gives a warning against it, but you can do it.
> 
> ...


I'll be honest with you, I never noticed that because I use the Pro edition. It lets me postpone updates for up to a year. But yeah, what you said is a really big problem for the casual user.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 11, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> Things like Web Browsers are fine but for everything else YMMV as it depends on your preferences, usage, etc e.g. I play games and I've needed to use windows only software over the years e.g. when I was at uni, I use PSP for photo editing (Windows only), etc.
> 
> Personally I also prefer Office over Libreoffice (the latter is what we're supplied with at work and it can be a pain at times, so BYOD is normal). Speaking of work we use a bespoke Windows based software as a core part of our store operations, otherwise I reckon we could switch over to Linux in certain areas.
> 
> For the record, I do use Linux on my Server (unRAID) and on the side with VMs/dual boots.


well I use my pc for studying, programming and browsing... browsing is not a problem, programming is way better on linux (imo) and I use libreoffice just fine. sure, libreoffice is not as good as Microsoft office, but I dont care much. I still have windows for that stuff, but I rarely use it


----------



## tech3475 (Sep 11, 2018)

natanelho said:


> well I use my pc for studying, programming and browsing... browsing is not a problem, programming is way better on linux (imo) and I use libreoffice just fine. sure, libreoffice is not as good as Microsoft office, but I dont care much. I still have windows for that stuff, but I rarely use it



The only downside to programming on Linux from my experience was where different distros can have their own quirks.

Linux Mint for example wouldn't run my tutors demo C code (kernel related stuff) meaning I had to switch to Cent OS.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 11, 2018)

tech3475 said:


> The only downside to programming on Linux from my experience was where different distros can have their own quirks.
> 
> Linux Mint for example wouldn't run my tutors demo C code (kernel related stuff) meaning I had to switch to Cent OS.



There, you hit in the nail, that's the biggest reasson why Linux distro won't be mainstream or why developers don't release more games for Linux
Linux distro have their place in this world but not as a mainstream home PC os.





Pachee said:


> Ms store, whatever, they are all bloatware crap. My point is that:
> 
> You can't remove all the bloatware without using extra hacks like uninstall_wim tool or editing config files to fool windows to think these packages are not required by the system (editing mum files or something).
> Also even then it seems that Microsoft is taking measures against this since they have added a new DB in Windows 10 Anniversary which flags components and will not let you update windows once it notices certain components are removed. So my point stands.



Cortana is far fromg being bloatware, any of those Ms programs are. You may not like them but that's another history, of those programs you hate only 3 cannot be fully removed but only disable.. Which means you won't be  bothering you.
In fact if you had used Cortana in first place instead of Ms Store (which can be fully removed)
All those "haaax" programs are just scripts, far from being real "haaax" 

Even if you don't remove but only disable them, you are only at best 2 gb...  In time when we use TB disc  2 gb is really nothing...  If 2gb is a lot of space, then you should think about upgrading your PC or getting a new.


----------



## bradzx (Sep 12, 2018)

Great.   Just great.    How can I upgrade my W7 to W8 or W10?


----------



## Pachee (Sep 12, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Cortana is far fromg being bloatware, any of those Ms programs are. You may not like them but that's another history, of those programs you hate only 3 cannot be fully removed but only disable.. Which means you won't be  bothering you.
> In fact if you had used Cortana in first place instead of Ms Store (which can be fully removed)
> All those "haaax" programs are just scripts, far from being real "haaax"
> 
> Even if you don't remove but only disable them, you are only at best 2 gb...  In time when we use TB disc  2 gb is really nothing...  If 2gb is a lot of space, then you should think about upgrading your PC or getting a new.


"Cortana is far from being bloatware" < Millions of windows users would say otherwise. You may like them, but that is another story.... 

"All those "haaax" programs are just scripts, far from being real "haaax" < Install wim tweak, which is the tool doing the job for all those scrips out there, is far from being "just scripts"".

It is not just about space, memory usage or performance.... You should put your ignorance/corporate white knighting aside and realize that many people just don't want their systems bloated with junk they don't need.


----------



## newo (Sep 12, 2018)

eh, they can do whatever they want.  most people are not really using their computers to do anything productive.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 12, 2018)

Pachee said:


> It is not just about space, memory usage or performance.... You should put your ignorance/corporate white knighting aside and realize that many people just don't want their systems bloated with junk they don't need.



White knighting,  Fake news, ok you need to use shiat hole country to show that you are from the US.
It's funny when you don't agree with an edge lord, you are a white knighting xD

You don't want their products? Then don't use them but  don't cry about then and tell fake news saying they are bloatware when they are not.
They don't use much space, nor memory plus 90% can be removed the rest disabled. So hardly bloatware....


----------



## WiiUBricker (Sep 12, 2018)

Skittyusedcovet said:


> Is it bad I want to continue to use a dinosaur? Screw Microsoft Im going to keep doing things my way and continue to use my dinosaur as I please. They dont get my money either.


Then don’t get mad if your dinosaur gets ill and there is no cure for its illness available.


----------



## Skittyusedcovet (Sep 12, 2018)

WiiUBricker said:


> Then don’t get mad if your dinosaur gets ill and there is no cure for its illness available.



I will just go and tell him to pack his bags then. There’s no reason to take the chance of him getting sick.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 12, 2018)

WildDog said:


> White knighting,  Fake news, ok you need to use shiat hole country to show that you are from the US.
> It's funny when you don't agree with an edge lord, you are a white knighting xD
> 
> You don't want their products? Then don't use them but  don't cry about then and tell fake news saying they are bloatware when they are not.
> They don't use much space, nor memory plus 90% can be removed the rest disabled. So hardly bloatware....


There are days I really wish downvoting was a thing on here. I'm gonna lay it out nice and clean for you... 

Consumer Choice = Good
Forcing Consumers to Use Services = Bad

I'm also personally sick of seeing, and having to uninstall, God-damned Candy Crush and MS' shitty Minecraft port every time I install Win10 for myself or someone else. Not to mention getting Cortana to fuck off... If you really think this shit isn't bloatware, you need a lobotomy.


----------



## newo (Sep 12, 2018)

People just have to agree to disagree because for every one person that says "windows 10 works fine for me!"  there are 2 other people that say that "it sucks".  Fact is that people still have old machines/setups that they do want to throwaway and forget about.  And then the other people will say oh you are not secure!  you could get hacked in 60 seconds while they give all thier info willingly to facebook over a secure channel.  security is an illusion.


----------



## WildDog (Sep 12, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> There are days I really wish downvoting was a thing on here. I'm gonna lay it out nice and clean for you...
> 
> Consumer Choice = Good
> Forcing Consumers to Use Services = Bad
> ...



But you have a choice, don't use Windows.
Siri= Woow so nice
Cortana= damm ms forcing bloatware!!!

If you think that Windows is the only option, then you need a lobotony...
Don't like it. Don't use... Just don't cry.

In 5 years the same people who is crying about Win 10 being bloatware,  will cry that Win 10 is no more....


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 12, 2018)

WildDog said:


> But you have a choice, don't use Windows.
> Siri= Woow so nice
> Cortana= damm ms forcing bloatware!!!
> 
> ...


Most people use Windows due to the overwhelming dominance that windows has on the market, with software such as games and video editors being available only on windows. So the argument of "you don't have to use windows" is kind of invalid. 

Plus Not being able to turn off Cortana creates a sense of a walled garden where Microsoft are forcing you to start utilizing their services like Cortana, which even if you don't use it for personal queries will still track what you are searching, and to then only be able to have cortana blocked from telemetry by using a 3rd party app is pretty disgusting on microsoft's part.


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## WildDog (Sep 12, 2018)

Jack54782 said:


> Most people use Windows due to the overwhelming dominance that windows has on the market, with software such as games and video editors being available only on windows. So the argument of "you don't have to use windows" is kind of invalid.
> 
> Plus Not being able to turn off Cortana creates a sense of a walled garden where Microsoft are forcing you to start utilizing their services like Cortana, which even if you don't use it for personal queries will still track what you are searching, and to then only be able to have cortana blocked from telemetry by using a 3rd party app is pretty disgusting on microsoft's part.



You can turn off Cortana, you can't uninstall it.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 12, 2018)

WildDog said:


> But you have a choice, don't use Windows.
> Siri= Woow so nice
> Cortana= damm ms forcing bloatware!!!
> 
> ...


I don't use ANY modern voice-controlled assistant, on ANY of my devices. And I sure as hell don't use Apple's iCrap, so pulling Siri out as an excuse against me is worse than pointless. To be fair, I really liked W10 when it came out, but with every subsequent major update, they stuff more and more unwanted junk into it, it gets more and more performance-hungry and shit breaks (like DirectX 9 implementation, kinda important, and it remained broken for *MONTHS*). Finally, the idea that people have a choice in an OS, when MS controls such a huge share of the market (especially in terms of legacy software and technology), is laughably wrong. Maybe one day soon that won't be true anymore, but for now it's the reality of the situation. So, in the meantime, I'm going to complain and find ways to a better Win10, if I use it at all. Oh, and you can use tools to modify a Windows 10 ISO, including removing Cortana. So, you're wrong there.


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## WildDog (Sep 13, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> performance-hungry and shit breaks (like DirectX 9 implementation, kinda important, and it remained broken for *MONTHS*). Finally, the idea that people have a choice in an OS, when MS controls such a huge share of the market (especially in terms of legacy software and technology), is laughably wrong.
> iOh, and you can use tools to modify a Windows 10 ISO, including removing Cortana. So, you're wrong there.


Performance hungry?? Not really, it even run better than Win 7

Use linux and wine, don't suffer with the eviiilll Microsoft and their bloatware 

Not official ones and  the LTSB are nor mean for home users. But hey, if you want to make it an "uhmm actuaaaly" then keep going find any detail to say i'm wrong.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 13, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Performance hungry?? Not really, it even run better than Win 7
> 
> Use linux and wine, don't suffer with the eviiilll Microsoft and their bloatware
> 
> Not official ones and  the LTSB are nor mean for home users. But hey, if you want to make it an "uhmm actuaaaly" then keep going find any detail to say i'm wrong.


Uh-huh, sure.


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## WildDog (Sep 13, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Uh-huh, sure.


Really, use any linux distro with wine and be happy why you suffer so much with Microsoft?


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 13, 2018)

WildDog said:


> Really, use any linux distro with wine and be happy why you suffer so much with Microsoft?


Because WINE, even the branch Valve is developing, doesn't support what I want. Not yet, anyway. Like I implied, if the day comes when there's almost perfect compatibility, I'll ditch Windows entirely. But for now, this conversation has devolved past the threshold of pointlessness. I'd say it's been fun...but it hasn't.


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## WildDog (Sep 13, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Because WINE, even the branch Valve is developing, doesn't support what I want. Not yet, anyway. Like I implied, if the day comes when there's almost perfect compatibility, I'll ditch Windows entirely. But for now, this conversation has devolved past the threshold of pointlessness. I'd say it's been fun...but it hasn't.


Uh-huh, sure.


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