# [BFWWIWA] Issue #2 - Sony PSVita



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Some time ago I held a poll asking GBATemp users which console they would like to see in the next _“But Foxi, Why Would I Want A…”_ issue and to my great surprise, Sony’s latest handheld wonder, the PSVita, took the poll by stride. This is a rather heartwarming result considering how lukewarm the PSVita’s reception is as of today. A shame, because the platform has a lot to offer, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves and start from the beginning, which goes back further than one would think.

The initial reports about Sony's next generation handheld date back to 2009 when Eurogamer posted an article stating that Sony’s working on a brand-new gaming portable that will utilize the PowerVR SGX543MP4+ and offer graphical prowess comparable to the original Xbox. Ever since that report surfaced various outlets published new and exciting information from insider sources confirming that the device is indeed in development. Before long, photos of the mythical device began circulating the web, showing a PSP Go-like, slider-based device with dual analog sticks and dual cameras, supposedly the devkit for the upcoming system. The rumour mill kept turning for another year before at long last the system was unveiled during the PlayStation Meeting 2011. The world could finally gaze upon what was yet to come, the Next Generation Portable, the system that would later become what today we know as the PSVita… and it was glorious.

​
[prebreak][/prebreak]
The Hardware


PSVita PCH-1000 in all its glory​ 


> Specs Sheet:
> 
> *CPU:* Quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore @ up to 2GHz
> *GPU: * Quad-core SGX543MP4+ @ 200MHz
> ...


​

The PSVita currently comes in three flavours - the 1000, 2000 and TV models. The latest revision, the PSVita-2000 comes in a variety of colours, from the standard black through white, pink, yellow, cyan and graphite, there's also a couple of limited editions for those who don't mind spending extra for owning a unique system. The face of the device sports most of the control inputs, including the trademark shape buttons, the PlayStation, Start and Select buttons, two analog sticks, the capacitive touchscreen and the front-facing camera. In addition to those, the system also has the left and right shoulder buttons as well as a rear camera and the rear touchpad. Underneath the surface, the PSVita features Sony's SIXAXIS motion sensors. The handheld is strongly reminiscent of the original PSP, it's pretty sizable and weighs quite a bit for a portable, but feels very solid as a result - you know it's a fine piece of hardware the moment you pick it up. In addition to the handheld versions of the PSVita, Sony also released the PSVita TV - a stationary microconsole compatible with Dualshock 3 and 4 controllers - this version is however incompatible with software using the touchpad, touchscreen or the cameras at present.

Specs-wise the PSVita has nothing to be ashamed of - thanks to its quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 CPU and PowerVR GPU, large amounts of RAM and dedicated VRAM it stands the test of time and continues to deliver unparalleled visuals in gaming and beyond, especially on the gorgeous OLED display of the original model. With enough horsepower to blow both the competition and most smartphones on the market right out of the water, the PSVita has all the makings of a terrific gaming device for gamers on-the-go.

More than just for Gaming

Aside from video games, the PSVita also sports a lot of functionality not normally associated with handheld consoles. The system comes with a full-blown web browser with video support and an HTML5 score high enough to put it ahead of even last generation home consoles, the Wii, the PS3 and the Xbox 360 which technically should have a horsepower advantage over the PSVita, and a set of multimedia applications including a music player, a video player and a photo browser.

In addition to the built-in functionality, the PlayStation Store also offers a variety of applications for the PSVita, including Google Maps _(especially useful for GPS-equipped PSVitas)_, Facebook, LiveTweet, Skype, Flickr and a number of video streaming apps including YouTube, Netflix*, Hulu Plus*, Crunchroll* and more. Needless to say, the PSVita does more than meets the eye, not to mention that it can do a couple of things at a time thanks to its multitasking capabilities. If you happen to be stumped in a video game, there's nothing holding you back from browsing the web in search of guides or even watching an online walkthrough on YouTube.



Peek-a-Boo!​ 
The PSVita also sports two 0.3MP cameras capable of capturing both photos and video footage which can additionally be Geotagged with location data. The resolution isn't much and the quality of footage leaves a lot to be desired, but it's a welcome addition to the function set nevertheless. Those cameras can also be used in gameplay, perhaps most notably in Tearaway.

*Subject to region availability

A Social Handheld for the Social Gamer


Near™... Far... Wherever you are...​​Some gamers like to keep their gaming private, others love to share their exploits with their family and friends - the PSVita meets both half-way. The system has built-in optional social functionality that allows you to share information regarding your latest games and trophies through the notification system as well as home screens of individual games, hold group video and voice chats via the Party app, send messages, sound clips, photos and screen shots of your favourite gaming moments directly to your PSN friends. This can of course be further expanded by installing additional applications, allowing you to share via Facebook or Twitter. All this is well-integrated into the OS, comfortable and simple to use - in fact, most of the sharing is completely automatic.

New to PlayStation Network and don't really have any friends to share with? Not a problem - start up Near, a special service for gamers on-the-go that allows you to find new friends and discover game content one step at a time - before you know it, you'll have a list of PSVita owners that happen to live nearby that you could invite to your friends list and game with. Don't feel like making rounds around the block? Not a problem either - many multiplayer games contain leaderboards and practically all display PSN ID's, allowing you to invite fellow gamers straight away, others include matchmaking functionality so that you can log straight into the fray.

Long story short, if you feel like sharing your gaming exploits and more with other users, the PSVita gives you ample opportunities to do so in ways that don't feel hammered in. Don't feel like participating? Don't - no one's forcing you - you can manage your sharing options from within the system's privacy settings and adjust everything to your personal needs.

"But Foxi, the PSVita has no Gaemz"
One of the stereotypes you often hear about Sony's handheld wonder is that it supposedly has no games to offer - this may have been a valid complaint back when it was released, but right now the library is quite sizable with plenty of quality content to choose from. I've hand-picked some of my favourite games on the platform as examples.

Soul Sacrifice 
​

The story of Soul Sacrifice takes place in a world torn by war between monsters and the sorcerers keeping them at bay through their power of sacrifice. You are one of the many innocent prisoners of Magusar, the mad sorcerer who lost his mind in an effort to remain immortal through sacrificing and devouring the souls of his victims. You are in luck though, all thanks to Librom, Magusar's magically animated journal that allows you to re-live Magusar's memories through the eyes of one of his dear friends, an inexperienced adept of the order. With Librom's help you can gradually observe Magusar's decent into madness and learn the art of sorcery that will allow you to challenge the madman... as soon as you dare to face him. You decide whether the souls of your foes are to be sacrificed or saved, you decide the outcome of the story and what kind of a sorcerer you'll become. The game features addictive gameplay, gothic aesthetics and a fantastic well-voiced story that's well-worth the effort of completing all of the game's missions. Recently Soul Sacrifice was released in an enhanced version called Soul Sacrifice Delta featuring additional content and improved gameplay mechanics.

Uncharted: Golden Abyss 
​

Uncharted: Golden Abyss puts you in the shoes of Nathan Drake, the famous treasure hunter with an uncanny ability to get himself into all sorts of trouble. Joined by Victor "Sully" Sullivan, Marisa Chase and Jason Dante, you'll have to traverse the Central American jungle in search of ancient artifacts. Naturally, you almost immediately face some _"issues"_ as you follow the trail of Spanish conquistadors, namely you run into Robert Guerro, a general of the local army of guerilla fighters, who despite your archeological exploits doesn't seem to be pleased with your presence in the area. If you wish to find the titular Golden Abyss, you'll have to make good use of both your brains and brawn in this fast-paced action-adventure title - a must-have for all Uncharted fans.

Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing: Transformed 
​

If you're a fan of kart racing games, look no further - All-Stars Racing: Transformed is there to give you our karting fix. The PSVita offers a fantastic port of the game which unlike the underwhelming 3DS release is in no way inferior to the home console version of the game. With a cast of characters from Sega's most beloved franchises such as Sonic the Hedgehog, Crazy Taxi, Space Channel, Super Monkey Ball and more, a variety of fun power-ups and exciting gameplay that takes you racing on land, water and in the air, you're bent to have a lot of fun with this one.

Dragon's Crown 
​

Fans of brawlers rarely get to enjoy quality releases these days, but Dragon's Crown sets the bar quite high and will definitely be much to the liking of fans of arcade-style beat-em-up's. Set in the land of Hydeland, Dragon's Crown takes you and your friends on an adventure across beautifully hand-drawn dungeons, fighting your way through countless hordes of enemies before you can finally face the mythical dragon... if the legend speaks the truth, that is. Pick one of the six playable characters, assemble a team of four fighters, controlled by your online friends or A.I, save the kingdom, impress the damsel and score mountains of gold - what's not to like?

KillZone: Mercenary​​

Wherever there's war, there's also warmongers like Anders Benoit of the Phantom TalonCorp., and where there are warmongers there's also mercenaries, soldiers of fortune like you - Arran Danner. This shooter puts you smack dab in the middle of a conflict between the ISA and the Helghast, between commander Alex Grey and Colonel Victor Kratek, over the planet of Vekta. Armed to the teeth with the latest in weapons, armour and drones, you'll have to choose where your loyalties lie as you blast your way through enemy lines... whoever that enemy you might choose to be. In addition to the addictive story mode the game also offers a great multiplayer mode that separates the grain from the chaff and puts your skills to the test. KillZone: Mercenary is a fantastic FPS that feels right at home on PSVita's dual analog setup - it's great fun, it looks stunning and it's well-worth your time.

Of course the system has plenty of other titles to choose from - WipeOut 2048, Dynasty Warriors NEXT, Dynasty Warriors 8: Xtreme Legends, Gravity Daze, Borderlands 2, Persona 4 Golden, Tearaway, Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time or Metal Gear Solid HD Collection are just some of the many games currently available for the PSVita. Aside from native PSVita software, the console is also compatible with PSP, PSOne and PSMobile software, all available through the PlayStation Store. The system has a _"bad rep"_ for being a dumping ground for weeaboo games and Indies, but in truth there's no shortage of other content on the platform - rest assured. It's also worth to note that the PSVita is entirely region free. If a game you'd like to buy is unavailable in your region, nothing stands in the way of importing it - the world is your oyster.

Row, Row, Row your Boat, Gently Down the Stream!
​

One of the many strong points of the PSVita are its streaming capabilities. The system is capable to stream select games from the PS3's library as well as the great majority of PS4 games, allowing you to take your gaming outside of the living room, and if bandwidth allows it, also anywhere you go. In addition, the currently tested PlayStation Now service will allow users to stream PSOne, PS2 and PS3 games from Sony's servers, nullifying the need of owning a PS3 at home. The streaming features are quite a big selling point as they further expand the PSVita's library of available games and are especially useful if you also own other PlayStation systems and wish to take your favourite games from the TV to the palms of your hands.

An "Expensive" System for the Cheap-ass Gamer


Instant Game Collection instantly makes every month exciting​ 
Despite being a hefty initial investment, the PSVita is actually a good solution for gamers who like to have lots of games but don't want to spend too much on them. The PSVita, alongside the PS4 and the PS3, is covered by the PlayStation Plus subscription service. What this means is that as a subscriber, you'll get access to two new PSVita games through Instant Game Collection for as little as $4.16 a month _(if you grab the $49.99 yearly subscription)_ which you'll be able to play for as long as your subscription lasts. On top of that, you'll also gain access to PlayStation Store discounts as well as exclusive content such as game betas, avatars and more. It that isn't enough, Plus also covers you in terms of backing up your data, allowing you to upload your save game files to the Cloud for safe keeping. PlayStation Plus is well-worth the asking price and is a service I can recommend to every PlayStation owner, especially if you own more than one console from the PlayStation family.

Of course Instant Game Collection is not all that's out there for the cheapskate gamer - the PSVita also has a lot of free to play titles including games like Destiny of Spirits, No Heroes Allowed: No Puzzles Either!, Jetpack Joyride, Frobisher Says!, Treasures of Montezuma: Blitz and more. Naturally not everyone is a fan of the F2P model, but nevertheless, it's always nice to have some free games to try out in-between of bigger releases.

Hacking and Homebrew


Wololo's VHBL - your go-to download for all your homebrew-loading needs​​As of today, the PSVita Mode of the console remains unhacked. That being said, PSP Mode has been blown open through numerous exploits, some allowing kernel access, some restricted to usermode. With those exploits in place, there's a number of ways to launch your favourite PSP homebrew, including Wololo's own Vita Half-Byte Loader as well as Total_Noob's TN-V and PRO-Team's ARK eCFW's which in addition to homebrew can also launch PSP backups. PSVita's PSP Mode gives a little bit more juice to the games and applications than the original PSP, however using the exploits means no updates, and that's quite a trade-off if you consider all the services the PSVita offers to up-to-date users.

"But Foxi, if it's so great, why is it doing so poorly?"
There's a number of factors contributing to the PSVita's poor sales results. The initial price point of $299 was quite hefty for a handheld console, not to mention that you still had to pick up a memory card for the system. Speaking of memory cards, these too were and continue to be pretty expensive, which leaves a bad taste in the mouths of potential adopters. On top of all that, the system still has to deal with the myth of not having any worth-while content, and that doesn't do the PSVita any favours. Of course none of those complaints are valid at this point in time - the system has been discounted to $199 since its launch and these days you can easily find bundles containing the system, a game and a memory card for $250, not to mention that you can always pick up a refurbished system for the fraction of a new console's price. As of today, there's nothing holding you back from buying a PSVita at an affordable price other than prejudice that has long since lost its relevance.

"Alright, I'm sold. What do I need with a PSVita?"
Honestly? Not much. PSVita game bundles come with everything you'll need, including a power adapter, a game and a memory card. If you do choose to buy just the system, all you need is a memory card and you're set, and here we encounter a glaring problem with the system - the memory cards are incredibly expensive in comparison to SD cards of the same capacity. If 8GB isn't enough for your uses, prepare for a larger expense when buying a 32 or 64GB card. Once you have your system and a memory card, I strongly suggest spending the extra buck on a PSPlus subscription, especially if you have other PlayStation consoles - you'll build up a library of games in no-time.

"But Foxi, do I *really* want one?"
That depends. I won't pull wool over anyone's eyes and say that the PSVita has the same footing the 3DS does - it certainly does not, but it still has a darn lot to offer. PSVita games on their own are numerous and loads of fun, and in-between of those you can still play PSP, PSOne and PSMobile games giving you with plenty of content to choose from. The system has a lot of horsepower and it shows - the games look dazzling in comparison to your average mobile or 3DS game, there's just no contest. Great hardware under the hood is coupled with a great hardware over it - thanks to the twin analog stick setup we all know and love the PSVita provides a gaming experience as close to a home console one as a portable can, and that's an achievement in and out of itself. In short, the PSVita is a great portable entry in the PlayStation family, and although it doesn't get as much love as one might want, it still delivers on exactly what it promises - full-blown console gaming on-the-go. If that sounds alluring to you, perhaps you should start saving up for a PSVita of your own.

What Would you Like to See Next?
If you enjoyed this article, be sure to vote in the poll above - only you as a community can decide what's going to be covered in the next issue of _"But Foxi, Why Would I Want A..."_ and I can't wait to see what you guys will vote for! I'm doing my best to expand my collection of systems, so there's a newcomer to the list - the classic Amiga line of computers that used to compete with IBM-Compatibles we know and love. Chances are that I'll _*touch wood*_ also get my hands on a Commodore 64 soon, too! Thanks for reading the article and don't be afraid to ask _"Why Would you Want A..."_ - as the old proverb says, _"The one who asks questions doesn't lose his way"_. Cheers!


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

lol vita no gaemz lol 

Nice post, though I'm sure our resident Nin10yearolds won't have anything good to say. 

I love my Vita. PS+ gives me an endless amount of games to play, Remote Play for my PS4 lets me dick around on my PS4 whenever I don't have a free monitor/TV to hook the PS4 up to...I hardly ever go a day without touching my Vita. 

BTW, in the US, a year of PS+ is only $49.99  http://www.amazon.com/1-Year-PlayStation-Plus-Membership-Digital/dp/B004RMK5QG


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## emigre (Jun 19, 2014)

B-but Foxi, the Vita has no gaems and requires a mandatory $100 32GB memory card!


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> BTW, in the US, a year of PS+ is only $49.99 http://www.amazon.com/1-Year-PlayStation-Plus-Membership-Digital/dp/B004RMK5QG


My bad, you're absolutely right. I'll correct that now.


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## TheCasketMan (Jun 19, 2014)

This is pretty interesting, and I also enjoyed reading the first one you wrote on the Sega Saturn.  I hope you do the Sega Master System next; it is one the most underrated and unknown system of all time in my opinion.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2014)

My only real beef (aside from the expensive memory cards) is the fact you need to sign up with a data plan/3G plan right? Can't they be bought without going through a mobile provider? At least, I assumed that was the case, I'm likely to be wrong.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> My only real beef (aside from the expensive memory cards) is the fact you need to sign up with a data plan/3G plan right? Can't they be bought without going through a mobile provider? At least, I assumed that was the case, I'm likely to be wrong.


 
Uhh...no, you don't have to sign up for any data plan at all when you buy one  I have a 3G Vita, they don't force you to buy into any data plan, it's completely optional.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> My only real beef (aside from the expensive memory cards) is the fact you need to sign up with a data plan/3G plan right? Can't they be bought without going through a mobile provider? At least, I assumed that was the case, I'm likely to be wrong.


You don't have to pick up any data plan at all. Unfortunately, in the US the PSVita 3G's are SIM locked to AT&T. Technically you can pick up an european PSVita on Amazon - all are region free anyways.


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## Qtis (Jun 19, 2014)

> Row, Row, Row your Boat, Gently Down the Stream!


10/10 header.

Great read, would buy the console again if I didn't have one already. PSP and PSOne games look fantastic on the screen and the portability is always a great addition


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## emigre (Jun 19, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> My only real beef (aside from the expensive memory cards) is the fact you need to sign up with a data plan/3G plan right? Can't they be bought without going through a mobile provider? At least, I assumed that was the case, I'm likely to be wrong.


 

Or just get a wifi model like most sane person?


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Uhh...no, you don't have to sign up for any data plan at all when you buy one  I have a 3G Vita, they don't force you to buy into any data plan, it's completely optional.


 

Ooh, well then, that changes everything . And to be perfectly honest (and as strange at is for me to admit this), I think once I save enough money, getting one might not be such a bad idea. I bet it's strange for me to admit that, let's just I gave the 3DS a few chances already. Maybe someday, Vita mode will be hacked 





emigre said:


> Or just get a wifi model like most sane person?


 
I admit, I had forgotten about that...whoops.


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## Arras (Jun 19, 2014)

Isn't 250$ for a bundle a bit much? When I was in a retail store here a little under a week back I saw a bundle that had a new Vita, a game megapack thing with 8 games (although most of them were eh or on PS+ but still) and an 8GB memstick for 150 euros. I actually was quite close to buying it but I don't have 150 to blow at the moment. Even was the 3G model, I think.


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## Qtis (Jun 19, 2014)

Also all non-US(/Japanese) 3g models are SIM unlocked, so buying one abroad or from eBay could land you a 3g version for your preferred carrier


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You don't have to pick up any data plan at all. Unfortunately, in the US the PSVita 3G's are SIM locked to AT&T. Technically you can pick up an european PSVita on Amazon - all are region free anyways.


 

Ugh, yeah, if I get one at all, I'll get either the WiFi version or the EU version (glad they're region free), I even saw some bundles that come with memory cards. Would I still be able to use the USA PSN store or would that be fixed to the EU store? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I'm genuinely curious about it.


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## Gahars (Jun 19, 2014)

If this handheld was an actor, it'd be Daniel DeVita - Perhaps it appears a bit unpleasant on the surface, and it don't come cheap, but if you're open-minded, you'll find it's an excellent performer that's also capable of directing some unique, exciting experiences. Sure, it might pack heat, but it also requires a monster condom for its magnum dong, so you're know you're going to have a great time.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Ugh, yeah, if I get one at all, I'll get either the WiFi version or the EU version (glad they're region free), I even saw some bundles that come with memory cards. Would I still be able to use the USA PSN store or would that be fixed to the EU store? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I'm genuinely curious about it.


 
They're region free, meaning you can access any of Sony's online stores. It depends on what region your account is set up for, so if it's set up in the US it'll show the US store, JP the Japan store, etc etc and you can technically change accounts at any time you want (though it requires a format of the memory card so you'll need to redownload any content),


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Arras said:


> Isn't 250$ for a bundle a bit much? When I was in a retail store here a little under a week back I saw a bundle that had a new Vita, a game megapack thing with 8 games (although most of them were eh or on PS+ but still) and an 8GB memstick for 150 euros. I actually was quite close to buying it but I don't have 150 to blow at the moment. Even was the 3G model, I think.


You're probably talking about this bundle:






It's the WiFi model and the price tag translates to aprox. $204, but it's not available in the US. It contains LittleBigPlanet, WipeOut 2048, MotorStorm RC, Little Deviants, Frobisher Says! with Frobisher Says! Fun pack, Ecolibrium with Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum game packs, Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters, Lemmings, Hungry Giraffe and The HD Adventures of the Rotating Octopus Character, but for what it's worth, Frobisher Says! and Ecolibrium are F2P titles anyways, Ratchet and Clank is a PSP game and most of the rest are cheap minigames. It's still worth it for WipeOut 2048, Little Deviants and LittleBigPlanet though.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 19, 2014)

I want one, but I can't decide between the 1000 and 2000 models. Or should I just wait it out for the inevitable 3000 model? Halp!


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## Arras (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You're probably talking about this bundle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the one I saw was the 3G model though. I know it had 8 games, not 10, and I think one of the ones on the cover was Everybody Golf (or some other golf game). Can't remember any of the others.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

Hyro-Sama said:


> I want one, but I can't decide between the 1000 and 2000 models. Or should I just wait it out for the inevitable 3000 model? Halp!


 
Both the 1000 and the 2000 have their benefits and flaws, it depends on personal preference at this point really. 

The 1000 has the OLED screen and (to me anyways) is a lot more comfortable to hold. 
The 2000 has an embedded 1GB of storage (which is useless if you get a memory card, it gets deactivated once a memory card is inserted), a Micro USB port instead of the proprietary Vita one, and various cosmetic changes (different color versions, smaller rear-touchpad, changes in the Start/Select button). 

I would recommend actually holding both the 1000 and the 2000 before you decide.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Arras said:


> I think the one I saw was the 3G model though. I know it had 8 games, not 10, and I think one of the ones on the cover was Everybody Golf (or some other golf game). Can't remember any of the others.


Interesting - never heard of that one! Perhaps it's a regional thing or a special store offer.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Both the 1000 and the 2000 have their benefits and flaws, it depends on personal preference at this point really.
> 
> The 1000 has the OLED screen and (to me anyways) is a lot more comfortable to hold.
> The 2000 has an embedded 1GB of storage (which is useless if you get a memory card, it gets deactivated once a memory card is inserted), a Micro USB port instead of the proprietary Vita one, and various cosmetic changes (different color versions, smaller rear-touchpad, changes in the Start/Select button).
> ...


 
I'm planning on buying the largest Memory Card available (64 GB, I think.) so the 1 GB of internal storage means nothing to me. The proprietary port is annoying but I can deal. I take good care of my stuff. One question though. How's the battery life on each? I hear the 2000 has better battery life then its predecessor. Or is the difference negligible?


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## Ryupower (Jun 19, 2014)

the truth is, there is "NO 1st party vita game"
but
there are many indie and 3rd party games

Sony saying
if you vita you should get a ps4
or
if you have a ps4, the vita is the best thing you can buy to use with it


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryupower said:


> the truth is, there is "NO 1st party vita game" but there are many indie and 3rd party games Sony saying if you vita you should get a ps4 or if you have a ps4, the vita is the best thing you can buy to use with it


The PS4 is their latest system and it's selling very well, of course they're going to divert their budget there. The PSVita has plenty of first-party titles as it is already.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

Hyro-Sama said:


> I'm planning on buying the largest Memory Card available (64 GB, I think.) so the 1 GB of internal storage means nothing to me. The proprietary port is annoying but I can deal. I take good care of my stuff. One question though. How's the battery life on each? I hear the 2000 has better battery life then its predecessor. Or is the difference negligible?


 
According to benchmarks, the 2000 has something like 45 minutes to an hour longer battery life. But the 1000's battery life is something like 6 hours of continuous playtime.


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## KingVamp (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm glad, other than the first post after the OP, that people having try to set flames to this thread.

I'm going wait for one more model.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> According to benchmarks, the 2000 has something like 45 minutes to an hour longer battery life. But the 1000's battery life is something like 6 hours of continuous playtime.


 

Hmmm. . . I'll take your advice then and get a feel for both before making a final decision. Thanks, Tom.


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## AceWarhead (Jun 19, 2014)

If Capcom would only bring over Monster Hunter Frontier G, then I would shell out some cash.
I'm very close to purchasing one too.


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## Arras (Jun 19, 2014)

Hyro-Sama said:


> I'm planning on buying the largest Memory Card available (64 GB, I think.) so the 1 GB of internal storage means nothing to me. The proprietary port is annoying but I can deal. I take good care of my stuff. One question though. How's the battery life on each? I hear the 2000 has better battery life then its predecessor. Or is the difference negligible?


The best part is that the 1GB means literally nothing because you can only use it if you don't have a memory card inserted (unless that was changed at some point?) http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/10/ps-vita-slim-internal-storage-usable-memory-card/


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

AceWarhead said:


> If Capcom would only bring over Monster Hunter Frontier G, then I would shell out some cash.
> I'm very close to purchasing one too.


Monster Hunter Frontier G is planned to be released in the west on the PSVita, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii U and PC, but the release date has not been disclosed yet so nothing's set in stone.


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## Vipera (Jun 19, 2014)

You caught my attention. But still, I don't know what will happen once PS+ is gone. Normally I wouldn't care, but Sony is famous for giving all in and then try to bury their stuff like an ET Atari 2600 cartridge (Go, Xperia Play, EyeToy chat...).
I always liked the PSVita and one day I will probably get one, but I wish there was something written in the TOS that guarantees my games to be still there once PS+ is gone.

Question: how good is the virtual console? Better than the 3DS?


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## AceWarhead (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Monster Hunter Frontier G is planned to be released in the west on the PSVita, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii U and PC, but the release date has not been disclosed yet so nothing's set in stone.


 
If that happens, then it's a definite buy. There's already things on there like P4G, MGS collection, and others that are interesting.


----------



## Veho (Jun 19, 2014)

This is a nice writeup, Foxi, but it makes me think we need a Why You Should Not To Buy A... series too


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

Vipera said:


> You caught my attention. But still, I don't know what will happen once PS+ is gone. Normally I wouldn't care, but Sony is famous for giving all in and then try to bury their stuff like an ET Atari 2600 cartridge (Go, Xperia Play, EyeToy chat...).
> I always liked the PSVita and one day I will probably get one, but I wish there was something written in the TOS that guarantees my games to be still there once PS+ is gone.
> 
> Question: how good is the virtual console? Better than the 3DS?


 
Once your PS+ subscription is up, you won't have access to the games given by PS+. But, once you renew your subscription, all the games you previously grabbed will be available to play as well. As for what happens if PS+ as a service gets canned...well, chances are that won't be for years and years. 

Regarding the classics, Sony has a huge selection of PS1 games that are playable on the Vita for cheap, as well as various PSP games. They also have the PS2 HD collection re-release games that are pretty good as well (like God of War, Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank etc).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Vipera said:


> You caught my attention. But still, I don't know what will happen once PS+ is gone. Normally I wouldn't care, but Sony is famous for giving all in and then try to bury their stuff like an ET Atari 2600 cartridge (Go, Xperia Play, EyeToy chat...).
> I always liked the PSVita and one day I will probably get one, but I wish there was something written in the TOS that guarantees my games to be still there once PS+ is gone.


PS+ games are rentals, so I'd assume that the moment PS+ support for the PSVita is dropped, you'll lose access to them. That being said, we're still years away from that happening - keep in mind that the PS2 has been discontinued in 2012 and as far as I know, servers for games are _*still*_ running.


> Question: how good is the virtual console? Better than the 3DS?


I haven't tried the Virtual Console functionality outside of a few PSP titles, but judging by the hardware powering it I'd assume that it's pretty capable.



Veho said:


> This is a nice writeup, Foxi, but it makes me think we need a Why You Should Not To Buy A... series too


BFWWIWA doesn't by proxy mean that I'll recommend the purchase - if the console _isn't_ worth buying then I'll explain exactly why that's the case. If you'd enjoy an article series specifically about what not to buy though, you should probably ask Ryukouki - he's the one who _"enjoys"_ getting all the heat around here.


----------



## Gaming4Ever (Jun 19, 2014)

So im guessing we are never gonna find out what the mystery port on the 1000 models is for?

Was really hoping $ony would just release a Video output HDMI cable we all want seeing as they seem to be promoting the Playstation TV all but killing off the 1000 & 2000 models.....ah what a world


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> So im guessing we are never gonna find out what the mystery port on the 1000 models is for?
> 
> Was really hoping $ony would just release a Video output HDMI cable we all want seeing as they seem to be promoting the Playstation TV all but killing off the 1000 & 2000 models.....ah what a world


Technically a PSVita has most of the hardware needed for an HDMI TV-Out including a hardware scaler, I'd assume that the mystery port is a left-over from the HDMI ports found on devkit units that was perhaps going to be used in future peripherals but was since discontinued, much like the PSP-1000's infrared port. There is a third-party video capture device available though if you're interested.

One of the hackers, katsu, also managed to get the HDMI functinality to work with a couple of resistors, a female HDMI connector and some wires soldered to 10 points on the motherboard - I'm sure the schematics for that will eventually surface as a low-cost TV-Out solution for the system.


----------



## Veho (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> BFWWIWA doesn't by proxy mean that I'll recommend the purchase - if the console _isn't_ worth buying then I'll explain exactly why that's the case. If you'd enjoy an article series specifically about what not to buy though, you should probably ask Ryukouki - he's the one who _"enjoys"_ getting all the heat around here.


I understand [BFWWIWA] isn't a series of reviews, but since you only list the positives of the console, I couldn't help but envision an opposite series, where we dismiss consoles out of hand for their perceived flaws. Of course, it would have to run in the EoF


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Veho said:


> I understand [BFWWIWA] isn't a series of reviews, but since you only list the positives of the console, I couldn't help but envision an opposite series, where we dismiss consoles out of hand for their perceived flaws. Of course, it would have to run in the EoF


I couldn't think of a whole lot of _negatives_ with this one other than the fact that it gets less developer attention than the 3DS and doesn't sell particularily well - the PSVita is just a _good_ handheld. The previous issue lists most of the problems the Saturn had, for instance.


----------



## Gaming4Ever (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah i know bout the video capture doohickey but again would be nice if they had an official cable seeing as its been just said not to expect any real First-Party titles and the Vita being an "Companion" device for the PS4 and a Indie Machine basically........

Also damn those memory card prices 2 hell


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> Also damn those memory card prices 2 hell


I have to agree that the prices of the memory cards are extortionist, but I can understand why that's the case - for the hardware offered, $199 is a low price to pay and the memory cards are supposed to allow Sony to bounce back. I'll have to take a note of that in the article, incoming edit.


----------



## matpower (Jun 19, 2014)

Good article as the usual, Foxi. I would buy a Vita if I had money after reading this, anyways,  I hope that the next article will be about the Master System, it is underrated as hell by most people.


----------



## Veho (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I have to agree that the prices of the memory cards are extortionist, but I can understand why that's the case - for the hardware offered, $199 is a low price to pay and the memory cards are supposed to allow Sony to bounce back.


But the cards were there and they were expensive back when the Vita cost $299 too. They were an extortion method from the start. Yes, they are a way for Sony to bounce back, but as a consumer, _meh, they could have used microSD cards, the cheap bastards_


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Veho said:


> But the cards were there and they were expensive back when the Vita cost $299 too. They were an extortion method from the start.


That's true, which is why I added that point to the article now. It just wasn't a big deal to me at the time of writing the piece because I bought a 32GB card straight away and the purchase has since returned itself tenfold with Instant Game Collection games it stores.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> So im guessing we are never gonna find out what the mystery port on the 1000 models is for?
> 
> Was really hoping $ony would just release a Video output HDMI cable we all want seeing as they seem to be promoting the Playstation TV all but killing off the 1000 & 2000 models.....ah what a world


 
Yifan lu pretty much "discovered" what the mystery port would be for by the pinout/the traces. It is most likely a USB OTG connector, most likely for peripherals as Foxi suggested, but was canned at the last second.


----------



## Gaming4Ever (Jun 19, 2014)

I have quite a few games i have purchased on PSN and gotten thru my PS+ subscription but ATM only have 2x 4GB and 1x 8GB memory cards and its a Pain in the Hole to keep deleting,removing,restarting,redownloading when i wanna play multiple games in a day  owning a Vita requires patience also it seems 


But man do i love my OLED screen


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> I have quite a few games i have purchased on PSN and gotten thru my PS+ subscription but ATM only have 2x 4GB and 1x 8GB memory cards and its a Pain in the Hole to keep deleting,removing,restarting,redownloading when i wanna play multiple games in a day  owning a Vita requires patience also it seems But man do i love my OLED screen


I don't know if it'll make you feel any better, but due to Instant Game Collection games alone I go through the exact same ritual every single month and I own a 32GB card. There's just too many gaems to handle! _;O;_


----------



## Gaming4Ever (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah too many no geamz 


64GB is whut im craving hopefully we see some discount/price drop sooner than later......Will the P-TV need memory cards for games or is it just streaming???


That should be reason alone for $ony to lower the bounty on these suckers.......


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (Jun 19, 2014)

Still to this day I'm uninterested with Vita's library and between PSP and Vita's catalogue, PSP's got me covered more so than Vita. Sony did a better job with PSP than Vita, imo.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Still to this day I'm uninterested with Vita's library and between PSP and Vita's catalogue, PSP's got me covered more so than Vita. Sony did a better job with PSP than Vita, imo.


The PSP is indeed a fantastic handheld with a great library of games. My only gripes with it are the single analog slider _(that thing can mutilate your thumb, it's *so* uncomfortable!)_ and the UMD drive _(optical media on portable devices are never a good idea, nu-uh)_, but thankfuly the latter problem can be solved by keeping your games on a memory stick.


----------



## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2014)

Thank you for bringing justice to one of my favorite handhelds, Foxi! 

Too bad Sony doesn't love the Vita as much as I do. *sigh* oh well. *goes back to waiting for all the Vita games I preordered*


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (Jun 19, 2014)

Sony just needs to make Vita the PS4 GamePad and then kill it off from competing against Nintendo's 3DS. Then next time they just need to make sure that their new PlayStation portable system won't be a failure like Vita was.


----------



## Joe88 (Jun 19, 2014)

there should be some stuff for it at gamescom and tgs


----------



## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Sony just needs to make Vita the PS4 GamePad and then kill it off from competing against Nintendo's 3DS. Then next time they just need to make sure that their new PlayStation portable system won't be a failure like Vita was.


 
I'm pretty sure the Vita will be Sony's last handheld. 
I would loooooooove for them to do another handheld though.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Sony just needs to make Vita the PS4 GamePad and then kill it off from competing against Nintendo's 3DS. Then next time they just need to make sure that their new PlayStation portable system won't be a failure like Vita was.


Trolling, trolling, trolling town the river.


----------



## mkdms14 (Jun 19, 2014)

I think Sony will do another handheld they just can't repeat any of the mistakes that they did with the PS3 launch and PSVITA launch.  That being they were soo expensive.  They just need to stick with what they do like what they did with the PS4.  The PS4 does not have very many good games but Sony has sold alot to people with the promise there will be alot of good games.


----------



## natkoden (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't know what's worse, the vita's library or your taste in video games.

All jokes aside, I was "this" close to getting one. BestBuy was having some discounts in both the system and the memory cards, but at the end of they, seeing the library and my other needs, I went for a tablet, lulz. Comics galore!

At that time (Dec. 2013) just Tearaway piqued my interest. I played it a little bit in the store, wasn't my cup of tea. So that being said, there's nothing going on for me with the Vita.

btw, can't see the Wii U in the poll.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

natkoden said:


> I don't know what's worse, the vita's library or your taste in video games.


Tastes are like assholes - everybody has one, but when you start flaunting about yours, all it amounts to is a lot of putrid stench. _;O;_


> All jokes aside, I was "this" close to getting one. BestBuy was having some discounts in both the system and the memory cards, but at the end of they, saying the library and my other needs, I went for a tablet, lulz.


To be fair, the mobile market has quite a bit to offer these days as well, I wouldn't knock that solution, especially with emulators in mind.


> At that time (Dec. 2013) just Tearaway piqued my interest. I played it a little bit in the store, wasn't my cup of tea. So that being said, there's nothing going on for me with the Vita.


Maybe you should have a good browse through the games list, there's a lot of good stuff on the platform, even if developer interest is rather lukewarm.


> btw, can't see the Wii U in the poll.


I don't own a Wii U, I only list the systems I personally own so that I can judge them fairly. My girlfriend does, but I don't want to write about a console I have no hands-on experience with to date. Maybe after I give it a good go.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

natkoden said:


> I don't know what's worse, the vita's library or your taste in video games.
> 
> All jokes aside, I was "this" close to getting one. BestBuy was having some discounts in both the system and the memory cards, but at the end of they, seeing the library and my other needs, I went for a tablet, lulz. Comics galore!
> 
> ...


 
Foxi only writes up systems that he owns. As such, he doesn't own a Wii U.

Well, that and the fact there's absolutely no reason to own a Wii U _;O;_


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Foxi only writes up systems that he owns. As such, he doesn't own a Wii U.
> 
> Well, that and the fact there's absolutely no reason to own a Wii U _;O;_


 

Says the guy who has a Wii U.  Doesn't matter if it was cheap.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Says the guy who has a Wii U.  Doesn't matter if it was cheap.


 
Do not 

It's not Friday yet  Besides, it's not like I'm going to actually use it for more than 2 minutes ;O;


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Do not
> 
> It's not Friday yet  Besides, it's not like I'm going to actually use it for more than 2 minutes ;O;


 

Good, so you can send it to me as a birthday gift come July.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Foxi only writes up systems that he owns. As such, he doesn't own a Wii U.


Every single day I ask myself _"but Foxi, why would you want a Wii U?"_. I'll get back to you when I find the answer. _;O;_


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Good, so you can send it to me as a birthday gift come July.


 
Well...if you got $300...sure


----------



## Anima000 (Jun 19, 2014)

*"But Foxi, the PSVita has no Gaemz"*

I dont quite agree with this post, and while that mock comment is a common internet opinion, it is actually half true. The console doesnt seem to be made for all the public, of couse there´s some neat action, racing sport gaming, but thats all there is.

Just a couple days ago i was deciding my next purchase between a vita and a ps4, and after lots of reading my conclusion was..... NONE... both systems game library is just not for me..

I mostly play rpg games, im an old school rpg player, sometimes tho i enjoy other kind of games like the latest batman, racing plataforms etc, but after looking at the library for the vita, which should be good by now.. i just found lacluster rpg games among other things (there are exceptions but theyre ports such as persona 4 and ffx remake, but well i already have those for the ps3..), then i thought i would buy it just to play my psn account classics, but i already do that with my psp 2000.. so well didnt seem like much of a worth the money purchase.

I wont even mention de ps4 as its still building the game library, and there seem to be a couple interesting games coming to warrant the purchase ina future, but ill wait to see how it fares againts the xbox.

So yea the psvita has no gaemz for me, but other ppl with other genre interest might differ


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Well...if you got $300...sure


 

What, no Reporter friend goofball $200 discount?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> What, no Reporter friend goofball $200 discount?





Spoiler











I bet Tom secretly works for Sony and he's the one who grossly overpriced the memory cards. Thanks, Tom!


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

God, what a mean person! 

And back on topic, seriously, nice piece.  Now I don't have to spend all my weekend putting one out.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Anima000 said:


> "But Foxi, the PSVita has no Gaemz"
> 
> I dont quite agree with this post, and while that mock comment is a common internet opinion, it is actually half true. The console doesnt seem to be made for all the public, of couse there´s some neat action, racing sport gaming, but thats all there is.
> 
> ...


If you're looking of RPG's and JRPG's on the PSVita, there's quite a bit of them available already and more yet to come. Just to name a few, Persona 4 Golden, Mind 0, Demon Gaze, Conception 2, Ragnarok Odyssey Ace _(if you like Action RPG's)_, Valhalla Knights 3 _(the same applies)_, Final Fantasy X and X-II HD, Tales of Hearts R, Hyperdimension Neptunia Re:Birth, Ys: Memories of Celecta, Disgaea 3, a whole set of Atelier games and more on the way, not to mention all the PSP and PSOne titles.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Jun 19, 2014)

Joe88 said:


> there should be some stuff for it at gamescom and tgs


 

Gamescom has more promise. The games revealed there will have a better chance of being released worldwide. Where as the weaboo games of TGS almost never leave the shores of Japan. (Not to mention, the TGS's of years past have been pretty lame.)


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Says the guy who has a Wii U.  Doesn't matter if it was cheap.



Like you have never wasted your money on tacky baubles
Transformers Decepticons, a Chemistry degree, various Apple products, Dynasty Warriors GBA......


----------



## Mario92 (Jun 19, 2014)

Some people are getting bored to expensive device just gathering dust so it's super easy to grab second hand super cheap. I got 3G model with 16gb memory card for under 100€ - mint condition and everything included. 
If you own PS3/PS4 just remember to click those PS+ Vita games as well and you have large library from the very start: https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/



Gaming4Ever said:


> Will the P-TV need memory cards for games or is it just streaming???


Playstation TV is pretty much the same thing as Vita - however some Vita games aren't compatible with it. Why did they call it Playstation TV in the west anyway? I bought japanese Vita TV and was very dissapointed by this fact (and that I had to use my japanese account which only had PS3 games). Device has 1gb of internal storage and uses same Vita memory cards and regular physical Vita games.


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 19, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Like you have never wasted your money on tacky baubles
> Transformers Decepticons, a Chemistry degree, various Apple products, Dynasty Warriors GBA......



That was mean LOL. I don't waste my money too often.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> That was mean LOL. I don't waste my money too often.


Sure. Just when you see something massively weeaboo, like Monster Monpiece. Admit it, you want that gaem. Succumb to the magic of PSVita!


----------



## p1ngpong (Jun 19, 2014)

LOL more $ony propaganda from GBAtemp, why am I not surprised? 

Power doesn't matter with your OLED just to display realistically rendered battlefields and I would never pay $100 for a memory card. You can keep your bangbang shooters and no games I only play original games like Mario, Link and Pokemon.

Who would pay $200 + $100  for a memory card for a handheld filled with bang bang shooter no games?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

p1ngpong said:


> LOL more $ony propaganda from GBAtemp, why am I not surprised?
> 
> Power doesn't matter with your OLED just to display realistically rendered battlefields and I would never pay $100 for a memory card. You can keep your bangbang shooters and no games I only play original games like Mario, Link and Pokemon.
> 
> Who would pay $200 + $100 for a memory card for a handheld filled with bang bang shooter no games?


What if Zelda was a girl?


----------



## GHANMI (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> What if Zelda was a girl?


 








Spoiler



Now, what if METROID was a girl?


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 19, 2014)

p1ngpong said:


> LOL more $ony propaganda from GBAtemp, why am I not surprised?
> 
> Power doesn't matter with your OLED just to display realistically rendered battlefields and I would never pay $100 for a memory card. You can keep your bangbang shooters and no games I only play original games like Mario, Link and Pokemon.
> 
> Who would pay $200 + $100 for a memory card for a handheld filled with bang bang shooter no games?


 
It's kinda disgusting how the staffers on this forum keep trying to peddle their Sony agenda on us. Like, I came to this forum originally for the biased opinions and Pokemon leaks and now there's this. I've been alive for at most 10 years and have a wide varied taste in games such as Mario, Pokemon, Mario and not to mention, Pokemon yet staffers like Foxi4 think that I won't notice their blatant Sony propaganda.

That's it, I quit. I'm off to a better forum that has members that know what good games are.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2014)

soulx said:


> It's kinda disgusting how the staffers on this forum keep trying to peddle their Sony agenda on us. Like, I came to this forum originally for the biased opinions and Pokemon leaks and now there's this. I've been alive for at most 10 years and have a wide varied taste in games such as Mario, Pokemon, Mario and not to mention, Pokemon yet staffers like Foxi4 think that I won't notice their blatant Sony propaganda.
> 
> That's it, I quit. I'm off to a better forum that has members that know what good games are.


 


Oh good, I was afraid you'd go to another forum like NeoGAF


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Oh good, I was afraid you'd go to another forum like NeoGAF


Don't be silly - NeoGAF does not embrace the Nintendo Evangelion fully, they are still considered non-believers and as such they deserve nothing but inquisition.


----------



## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2014)

p1ngpong said:


> LOL more $ony propaganda from GBAtemp, why am I not surprised?
> 
> Power doesn't matter with your OLED just to display realistically rendered battlefields and I would never pay $100 for a memory card. You can keep your bangbang shooters and no games I only play original games like Mario, Link and Pokemon.
> 
> Who would pay $200 + $100 for a memory card for a handheld filled with bang bang shooter no games?


 
This has reminded me that I've paid a lot for my Vita and memory cards. ($250+$30 8GB card+$102 64GB card *gulp*)


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

GameWinner said:


> This has reminded me that I've paid a lot for my Vita and memory cards. ($250+$30 8GB card+$102 64GB card *gulp*)


This continuously reminds me that I got my PSVita for free with my data plan and your woes are completely alien to me. _;O;_


----------



## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> This continuously reminds me that I got my PSVita for free with my data plan and your woes are completely alien to me. _;O;_


 
True Vita owners buy the Vita without a data plan. ;O;


----------



## Nightwish (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> This continuously reminds me that I got my PSVita for free with my data plan and your woes are completely alien to me. _;O;_


Pretty sure you're paying it on your data plan.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Nightwish said:


> Pretty sure you're paying it on your data plan.


T'was a joke - of course I pay monthly payments, that's how plans work.  Fortunately mine was a pretty sweet deal and the 4G internet does get a lot of use when I'm on-the-go, so getting it that way was just hitting two birds with one stone.


----------



## LegendAssassinF (Jun 19, 2014)

I think the main problem is games. You say that streaming games will be great on it but considering how the PS3/PS4 handle PS Now Beta through wireless connection I highly doubt it will be playable.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

LegendAssassinF said:


> I think the main problem is games. You say that streaming games will be great on it but considering how the PS3/PS4 handle PS Now Beta through wireless connection I highly doubt it will be playable.


As it's always the case with streaming, your experience is intrinsically connected with your download/upload speeds and ping. If you're planning to use PlayStation Now, make sure that your connection is up to the task.


----------



## Gaming4Ever (Jun 19, 2014)

Hope my 30MB connection is up 2 snuff for PSNow


----------



## LegendAssassinF (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> As it's always the case with streaming, your experience is intrinsically connected with your download/upload speeds and ping. If you're planning to use PlayStation Now, make sure that your connection is up to the task.


 

The connection can be perfect. Kotaku just did a video on how the PS4 handles streaming on Wireless vs Wired and wireless is absolutely terrible.


----------



## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2014)

Some of you guys are going to get a kick out of PlayStation Now. I thought it would be extremely laggy if you didn't use an ethernet cable but no. All of the games I've played were almost perfect. Can't wait until it comes to Vita.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

LegendAssassinF said:


> The connection can be perfect. Kotaku just did a video on how the PS4 handles streaming on Wireless vs Wired and wireless is absolutely terrible.


I'm inclined to think that might be a problem with their router, mostly because PS4's Remote Play works perfectly fine on the PSVita and that's wireless as well. Wired or wireless, connection time between Sony's servers and your home network is exactly the same - it's the connection between your device and the router that varies. If the connection between PlayStation Now servers and your network is not the bottleneck, your router probably is. Then again, we can't foget that the service is still in its beta stages, we'll see how it will work out when it's ready for a public release.


----------



## BORTZ (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Sure. Just when you see something massively weeaboo, like Monster Monpiece. Admit it, you want that gaem. Succumb to the magic of PSVita!


 
My review should be coming along soon. The gameplay is actually rock solid, but its buried in flesh and Otaku.


----------



## crea (Jun 19, 2014)

My main reason for not getting a Vita is the huge price, plus the price difference for europe.

Basically Sony asks for the same price, just instead of a $ sign they put a € sign behind it. Wich means everything is about 25% more expensive. Combined with lower wages in europe compared to US makes everything a hell of a lot more expensive, like about 40-50% I'd guess.
Even the Playstation Plus is 50€ a year in Europe.

I know other countries even have it much worse, only stating the reason why I won't buy the vita without an exclusive absolute killer game.


----------



## CathyRina (Jun 19, 2014)

I like my Vita
I can listen to music while playing games and the ingame BGM automatically gets muted.
Video Quality on that thing is top and the Camera has a waay better Quality than what the 3DS offers.
Nice Twitter app, nice Youtube app, nice Web browser. The OS is quick and responsive. Build in Screenshot function.
I can't complain. 
I just wish I could switch between the PSN accounts like I can on the PS3.


----------



## Schizoanalysis (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> What if Zelda was a girl?


 


Uh. Zelda actually is a girl. That's Link.


----------



## CathyRina (Jun 19, 2014)

Schizoanalysis said:


> Uh. Zelda actually is a girl. That's Link.


 
you missed the joke


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

LegendAssassinF said:


> The connection can be perfect. Kotaku just did a video on how the PS4 handles streaming on Wireless vs Wired and wireless is absolutely terrible.


 
lel wut.

I remote play PS4 games all the time on my Vita, with absolutely no lag issues whatsoever. And that's via wireless.


----------



## WiiCube_2013 (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Trolling, trolling, trolling town the river.


 
Typical Sony fanboy response.

Vita ultimately is not intended for the public, but more so for a few niche fans and that alone isn't enough to keep the damn thing alive for too long. It just is because Sony hasn't yet given up on it because it has the possibility to be PS4's GamePad.

The handheld had potential but it failed and now the only solution is really to make it PS4's secondary controller.



Foxi4 said:


> I don't own a Wii U, I only list the systems I personally own so that I can judge them fairly. My girlfriend does, but I don't want to write about a console I have no hands-on experience with to date. Maybe after I give it a good go.


 
Then ask your "girlfriend" to borrow the system for a short time to review it if you want, unless she uses daily.



GameWinner said:


> This has reminded me that I've paid a lot for my Vita and memory cards. ($250+$30 8GB card+$102 64GB card *gulp*)


 
And another reason why Vita isn't doing so well. Demanding such high prices for memory cards when PSP could use affordable/cheap ones.

Plus, 3DS uses SD Cards which the Vita should have too.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Schizoanalysis said:


> Uh. Zelda actually is a girl. That's Link.








Know your memes, son! 


crea said:


> My main reason for not getting a Vita is the huge price, plus the price difference for europe.
> 
> Basically Sony asks for the same price, just instead of a $ sign they put a € sign behind it. Wich means everything is about 25% more expensive. Combined with lower wages in europe compared to US makes everything a hell of a lot more expensive, like about 40-50% I'd guess.
> Even the Playstation Plus is 50€ a year in Europe.
> ...


That indeed used to be the case - it's quite annoying and a lot of companies do that. As of today though, a quick Amazon.de vs. Amazon.com comparison shows that the average bundle _(system + game + memory card) _in Germany costs $262, which isn't that far off from the $250 you'd pay in the US. 


WiiCube_2013 said:


> Typical Sony fanboy response.


Thank you?


> Vita ultimately is not intended for the public, but more so for a few niche fans and that alone isn't enough to keep the damn thing alive for too long. It just is because Sony hasn't yet given up on it because it has the possibility to be PS4's GamePad.


According to estimates it's still selling better than the Wii U and that's on life support, so I don't think we're in the drama territory yet. It could use better sales though, it definitely deserves them, especially now after all the price cuts when it's about as affordable as a 3DS XL.


> The handheld had potential but it failed and now the only solution is really to make it PS4's secondary controller.


I'm sure it'll happen right after Nintendo releases a Gamepad-free Wii U SKU.


> Then ask your "girlfriend" to borrow the system for a short time to review it if you want, unless she uses daily.


Nobody uses a Wii U daily. 

Seriously though, I probably would if there wasn't a literal sea between us at the moment. I'm moving to the UK soon though, so I'll have some private time with the Wii U in due time.


> And another reason why Vita isn't doing so well. Demanding such high prices for memory cards when PSP could use affordable/cheap ones.


Excuse me? Memory Sticks were _*incredibly*_ expensive at the time of the PSP's release - they're cheap _now_, years upon years after the system's release, but back in the day they were about as pricy, if not more, as PSVita memory cards. Here's a little excerpt from a 2004 review:



> 256MB Memory Stick PRO (High Speed) media for about $100
> 512MB Memory Stick PRO (High Speed) media for about $170
> 1GB Memory Stick PRO (High Speed) media for about $350
> 256MB Memory Stick PRO Duo (High Speed) media for about $105
> ...


Yep, that's _cheapo_ right there. 

Moreover, you won't convince me that someone _in their right mind_ would abstain from playing video games _because the memory card, which is a one-time purchase, is expensive_. That, and the problem was nullified with game bundles for the most part.


> Plus, 3DS uses SD Cards which the Vita should have too.


Here we agree, SD support would've been welcome as they're far more affordable. The reason why Sony went proprietary though is pretty clear - they offered high-end hardware for a small price and needed something to bounce back with - that's all there is to it.


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## mightymuffy (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> lel wut.
> 
> I remote play PS4 games all the time on my Vita, with absolutely no lag issues whatsoever. And that's via wireless.


 
I'm kind of on your side... depends on the distance though: guttingly, my PS4 is obviously situated just that little too far away from my shitter coz the lag is insane at best.....
Memory cards are shockingly priced, but like has been said once the plunge has been taken it doesn't matter so much, and FTR I baulk more at the price of PS3, PS4 and Xbone pads (infact pretty much every pad from the last 3 console generations).... just gotta bend over and take it up the arse I'm afraid....
Only one account is also a right arse when I've got 2 kids and a gamer wifey, but it's to be expected from a handheld...

Many of you know (Foxi especially!  ) I'm more of a Nintendo fan, but Vita & Remote Play & Cross Play & PS Plus (AND soon PS Now) = Fantastic combination!! Compared to a 3DS, the game library (exclusives in particular) are lean, but that doesn't stop this from being a great machine, just like the PSP was. And that OLED screen on the 1000, phwoar....


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

mightymuffy said:


> I'm kind of on your side... depends on the distance though: guttingly, my PS4 is obviously situated just that little too far away from my shitter coz the lag is insane at best.....


 
Mine sits about 20 feet away from me in a different room, and remote play still has no issues. I tested it once, it took until I was outside of my house (probably around 30 feet or more from the console) when I had 1-2 bars of wifi that it ever had a substantial amount of lag that affected gameplay.


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## Mario92 (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> As it's always the case with streaming, your experience is intrinsically connected with your download/upload speeds and ping. If you're planning to use PlayStation Now, make sure that your connection is up to the task.


 
Game streaming works only with local network, there is so much that can go wrong and makes experience worse when streaming and I just can't figure out why some people are excited about that. I wouldn't expect miracles from Playstation Now and I allready own all the devices which can play same games locally.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> -snip-


Bro, we get it. You like the Wii U and you don't like the Vita. It's cool. Both systems are struggling and don't appeal to everybody.

On topic: fantastic article. A lot of people don't understand the merits of the Vita and aren't willing to learn. I legitimately still haven't been able to go out and buy all of the Vita games I want to own, and I've already played 10+ quality games on my Vita since January, which is the most games than I've played on a single system in such a short time since the last time I decided to really invest some PS3 time in. The game collection definitely is not suffering. These aren't games I'm playing simply because they're on the Vita either; these are games I want to own for myself because they're fun.

As for the memory card prices, yep, they suck. No denying it. I'm working with an 8GB card because I just really don't want to spend the money on upgrading, and this is the memory card I got with the system when I traded my Fire Emblem edition 3DS (though, I do actually miss Fire Emblem: Awakening, as it was amazing). If you're smart about it, or as long as you don't feel the need to juggle 10 downloaded titles at a time, it actually isn't that hard to work with 8GB. The fact that you can play games while you download in the background makes the process painless as well.

All in all, I love the system, and I have had more fun with it than I did my 3DS, though that is purely a matter of personal taste. I'll eventually be buying another 3DS again because Pokemon gen 3 remakes, but for now, my Vita has more than enough to tide me over for a long while.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Jun 19, 2014)

The game genres which are released on Vita don't really have too much variety to cover most customers' tastes which is why it limits its audience, just as same as the Wii U but since Wii U is a Nintendo product it always has that advantage though Vita despite being a Sony product doesn't have that same luck, as it is a handheld not a home console that has that benefit.

Not even Sony gives a rats ass about Vita, only the fans still try to defend it.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

Mario92 said:


> Game streaming works only with local network, there is so much that can go wrong and makes experience worse when streaming and I just can't figure out why some people are excited about that. I wouldn't expect miracles from Playstation Now and I allready own all the devices which can play same games locally.


We live in the age of 1 gigabit Google Fiber, fast internet connections are only going to spread from now on, I don't think online streaming will meet as many hurdles as some of the naysayers claim.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> We live in the age of 1 gigabit Google Fiber, fast internet connections are only going to spread from now on, I don't think online streaming will meet as many hurdles as some of the naysayers claim.


 
Internet connection in a lot of countries still isn't that great, plus another reason to get games/films/series on discs than digitally streaming.

As well as films/series are far superior on Blu-ray for HD viewing than HD streams.


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## mightymuffy (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Mine sits about 20 feet away from me in a different room, and remote play still has no issues. I tested it once, it took until I was outside of my house (probably around 30 feet or more from the console) when I had 1-2 bars of wifi that it ever had a substantial amount of lag that affected gameplay.


Mmm, sounds about right. I've got a large dormer bungalow & extension. A bit of moving around would sort it, but I don't spend THAT long on the bog anyway!  (Works fine in the lads rooms upstairs) G
I get about the same range with the Wii U gamepad, maybe less actually... Pre-launch, looking at the remote play setup, I thought it was gonna be a bit crappy... just another thing I was pleasantly surprised about the Vita with!



WiiCube_2013 said:


> Internet connection in a lot of countries still isn't that great, plus another reason to get games/films/series on discs than digitally streaming.
> 
> As well as films/series are far superior on Blu-ray for HD viewing than HD streams.


 
Perhaps you should try watching something else other than compressed-to-within-an-inch-of-their-life 1.5GB torrents..... Blu-Ray's great of course, but 'far superior' doesn't come into the sentence with a _decent_ HD stream


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## natkoden (Jun 19, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Internet connection in a lot of countries still isn't that great, plus another reason to get games/films/series on discs than digitally streaming.
> 
> As well as films/series are far superior on Blu-ray for HD viewing than HD streams.


 
Yeah, but consoles are not officialy supported on those countries, like mine. Although PS kinda is.

I still have a crappy 3MB connection and that's like the fastest I can get. More than that and the telephone line explodes, leaving me without internet for months. We have some 20mb plans but those are expensive as fuck, 1/3 of the minimum salary. Who's gonna pay that?


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## GamerzHell9137 (Jun 19, 2014)

Awesome Article Foxi!
I love that you have put 1-2 min long videos about the games and not a hour long gameplay footage of them. Nice and simple introduction to Vita and its games.
The only thing that it doesn't say is the PS+ Price for Europe and what GB cards it has(4,8,16,32,64 GB only 3 of those were in the article)
Anyways, i find that Vita is a marvelous console even thou its filled with ports(which i actually like and haven't played) and its library that's filled with different genres of games and not focused on one or two or recycled games from the previous generation(I'm looking at you Soul Sacrifice,Danganronpa and Oreshika)

The only downside would be the cards and not so awesome support from Sony's side, but on the 3rd party side its great imo.

I'm still debating to get one or not(cause of the money issue that i have) but i think i'll get one sooner or later cause i'm more of a handheld dude than a console dude(And i don't have a HD TV so next gen isn't so for me right now lol)


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> The game genres which are released on Vita don't really have too much variety to cover most customers' tastes which is why it limits its audience, just as same as the Wii U but since Wii U is a Nintendo product it always has that advantage though Vita despite being a Sony product doesn't have that same luck.
> 
> Not even Sony gives a rats ass about Vita.


Can you give me a more detailed list of what you'd expect from the system? As far as I know, it's got

J/RPG's _(FF-X and FF-X-II HD, Tales of Hearts R, Ys: Memories of Celecta, Demon's Gaze and more)_
FPS'es _(KillZone: Mercenary, Borderlands 2, CoD:Blops - Declassified, Resistance: Burning Skies)_
Third-Person Action/Action-Adventure _(Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush, God of War Collection, Unit 13, Dynasty Warriors NEXT)_
3D platformers _(Jak & Daxter Trilogy, Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault, Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, Tearaway, Super Monkey Ball, Touch my Katamari)_
2D platformers _(Rayman Origins, Rayman Legends, Child of Light, Guacamelee!)_
Indies _(FEZ, Thomas was Alone, Bit.Trip Runner2, LIMBO)_
Visual novels _(Zero Escape: Virtues Last Reward, __XBlaze Code: Embryo__)_
Racing games _(Ridge Racer, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing: Transformed, ModNation Racers: Road Trip, MotorStorm RC, WipeOut 2048)_
Sports games _(MLB: The Show 2013/14, FIFA 13/14, Madden NFL 13, Virtua Tennis 4)_
Fighting games _(Mortal Kombat, Injustice: Gods Among Us, BlazBlue: Continuum Shift, Street Fighter X Tekken, Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate)_
RTS'es _(New Little King's Story, Army Corps of Hell)_
Puzzle games _(Lumines: Electronic Symphony, Surge, Escape Plan, Chronovolt)_
_"Monster Hunter-Likes" (Soul Sacrifice, Ragnarok Odyssey Ace, Toukiden)_
Point and Click Adventure games _(Machinarium, Broken Sword: Serpent's Curse, The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us)_
Damn, it even has Farming Simulator if that's how you roll.
I have no idea what _"genre shortage"_ you're talking about here.


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## LegendAssassinF (Jun 19, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> lel wut.
> 
> I remote play PS4 games all the time on my Vita, with absolutely no lag issues whatsoever. And that's via wireless.


 

Remote Play isn't the same as a server running your games. Also you are likely right near your PS4 while you are playing on your vita


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## natkoden (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Can you give me a more detailed list of what you'd expect from the system? As far as I know, it's got JRPG's _(FF-X and FF-X-II HD, Tales of Hearts R, Ys: Memories of Celecta, Demon's Gaze and more)_, FPS'es _(KillZone: Mercenary, Borderlands 2, CoD:Blops - Declassified, Resistance: Burning Skies)_, third-person action games _(Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush, God of War Collection, Unit 13)_, 3D platformers _(Jak & Daxter Trilogy, Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault, Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, Tearaway, Super Monkey Ball, Touch my Katamari)_, 2D platformers _(Rayman Origins, Rayman Legends, Child of Light, Guacamelee!)_ a ton of indies _(FEZ, Thomas was Alone, Bit.Trip Runner2, LIMBO)_, visual novels _(Zero Escape: Virtues Last Reward, )_, lots of racing games _(Ridge Racer, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing: Transformed, ModNation Racers: Road Trip, MotorStorm RC)_, sports games _(MLB: The Show 2013/14, FIFA 13/14, Madden NFL 13, Virtua Tennis 4)_, plenty of fighting games _(Mortal Kombat, Injustice: Gods Among Us, BlazBlue: Continuum Shift, Street Fighter X Tekken)_, RTS'es _(New Little King's Story, Army Corps of Hell)_, damn, it even has Farming Simulator if that's how you roll. I have no idea what _"genre shortage"_ you're talking about here.


 
Most of those games are not system sellers. And many of them are multiplatform or have been released previously.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2014)

LegendAssassinF said:


> Remote Play isn't the same as a server running your games. Also you are likely right near your PS4 while you are playing on your vita


 


Tom Bombadildo said:


> Mine sits about 20 feet away from me in a different room, and remote play still has no issues. I tested it once, it took until I was outside of my house (probably around 30 feet or more from the console) when I had 1-2 bars of wifi that it ever had a substantial amount of lag that affected gameplay.


 

Also, I got into the PS Now beta and again had no problems. Same with every other streaming service (OnLive when that was a thing, NVIDIA Grid, etc). OH NO BUT KOTAKU SAID IT WAS BAD THEREFORE IT'S TERRIBLE FOR EVERYONE


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## Anima000 (Jun 19, 2014)

Foxi, like i said on my post the only two games worth it you mentioned, I already have them on my ps3 (persona and ffx remaster), the others just dont cut it for me, i tried or researched at least almost all games u llist.

Most of the rpg games i see on vita mostly come from NIS and well.. is just my personal opinion but theyre a what i call rollercoaster games producer, few of their their games go up, but most of them are on the downside.

I wont say you're advertising ps vita, because I dont really know ppl on these forums and if you like the system, I respect your preferences, but on my opinion 3ds is a more versatile system and the vita doesnt justify the money it costs and im not going into the costs debate there, is  because i dont mind paying for something as long as is worth it. ( i actually paid for the ps3 when it was superexpensive but it was worth it, i still own a backward compatible fat ps3)


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2014)

natkoden said:


> Most of those games are not system sellers. And many of them are multiplatform or have been released previously.


This is literally just stuff off the top of my head, the system has what, 640 games released for it to date? There's stuff to choose from.


Anima000 said:


> Foxi, like i said on my post the only two games worth it you mentioned, I already have them on my ps3 (persona and ffx remaster), the others just dont cut it for me, i tried or researched at least almost all games u llist.
> 
> Most of the rpg games i see on vita mostly come from NIS and well.. is just my personal opinion but theyre a what i call rollercoaster games producer, few of their their games go up, but most of them are on the downside.
> 
> ...


This is by no means an advert of any kind, it's just me expressing my personal opinion about the systems I happen to own. The PSVita was a community choice - I only wrote the piece.


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## CathyRina (Jun 19, 2014)

natkoden said:


> Most of those games are not system sellers. And many of them are multiplatform or have been released previously.


 
but on other platforms you can't play them on the Bus/Train/School.
For me this is a huge selling point.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> but on other platforms you can't play them on the Bus/Train/School.
> For me this is a huge selling point.


Precisely. I don't have a problem with ports of contemporary and _good_ games if they're sold at an affordable price, which is the case with most PSVita ports. What I do have a problem with and what I expressed on the forums numerous times is making ports/lazy remakes of games over a decade old and demanding full retail price for them like _*cough cough*_ that other company. Then again, each to their own - who am I to judge? All I can tell is that I've had a stellar time playing Mortal Kombat on my PSVita - it's an enhanced port and frankly it's a blast.


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## GameWinner (Jun 20, 2014)

I don't have a problem with ports. I do have a problem if the port runs horribly. We need more ports like The Sly Collection and less like the Full Frontal Assault port.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2014)

GameWinner said:


> I don't have a problem with ports. I do have a problem if the port runs horribly. We need more ports like The Sly Collection and less like the Full Frontal Assault port.


So more like Ratchet & Clank? ;O;


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## Mario92 (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> We live in the age of 1 gigabit Google Fiber, fast internet connections are only going to spread from now on, I don't think online streaming will meet as many hurdles as some of the naysayers claim.


 
Actually project to get optical fiber to city I live just got shot down with complain because handling that complain takes so long that EU support gets pulled out.
That means I'm still stuck with mobile network for long time. Well at least they finally got LTE here and only limit is that I can't have public IPv4.






Best part is that I know I still have way better internet connection that some people have. 
EDIT: Oh yeah how about sonys servers? I'm fairly sure they won't put servers on every country and not everybody lives in US. 



XrosBlader821 said:


> but on other platforms you can't play them on the Bus/Train/School.
> 
> For me this is a huge selling point.


Only thing that bothers with this that if you are mainly using other device to play other than playstation you mostly have to rebuy games to play them on go and save files don't work together. So I rather not play same games I play at home on go because of this.


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## Anima000 (Jun 20, 2014)

> *XrosBlader821* said
> 
> natkoden said:↑
> Most of those games are not system sellers. And many of them are multiplatform or have been released previously.​but on other platforms you can't play them on the Bus/Train/School.
> For me this is a huge selling point.


 
sadly thats the only reason i considered buying the psvita, but when it comes down to buying a system just because of  two games that are ports/enhaced versions, I still keep wondering , does it make it worth it to get the new system?


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## natkoden (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> This is literally just stuff off the top of my head, the system has what, 640 games released for it to date? There's stuff to choose from.
> This is by no means an advert of any kind, it's just me expressing my personal opinion about the systems I happen to own. The PSVita was a community choice - I only wrote the piece.


 
Sure, but think of it this way: most gamers have the rest of the consoles and won't be buying the same game twice. So for them (myself included), the vita has almost no appeal. I'll consider it when some juicy exlusives appear. For now, I play the rest of the games on PC/PS3/3DS. Imagine those that have more systems.

Great library, but just when you isolate it.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

natkoden said:


> Sure, but think of it this way: most gamers have the rest of the consoles and won't be buying the same game twice. So for them (myself included), the vita has almost no appeal. I'll consider it when some juicy exlusives appear. For now, I play the rest of the games on PC/PS3/3DS. Imagine those that have more systems.
> 
> Great library, but just when you isolate it.


I would be keen to agree with you... if only I didn't like the exclusives that the PSVita does have, like the forementioned KillZone: Mercenary, Soul Sacrifice, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Touch my Katamari, WipeOut 2048, Gravity Rush etc.. What I will say however is that the system could definitely use some more exclusive content and I sincerely hope that more of that will come later down the line. The PSVita's entering it's second year, it still has quite some time to blossom before it reaches the end of its life cycle. I'm quite excited for the upcoming Freedom Wars and I still haven't played some other exclusives like Ys: Memories of Celecta, Shinobido 2 or Army Corps of Hell, so I'm yet to run out of games to try out.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 20, 2014)

Mario92 said:


> Only thing that bothers with this that if you are mainly using other device to play other than playstation you mostly have to rebuy games to play them on go and save files don't work together. So I rather not play same games I play at home on go because of this.


 
Most games that are cross-platform support cross-saves. I'm not entirely sure how many since there are few lists that have been updated the past year, but in general if a game gets release on PS3/PS4/Vita it'll support cross-saving. There are also quite a few cross-buy games as well (games that when bought on one platform can be played on all platforms).


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## Black-Ice (Jun 20, 2014)

The vita isnt bad.
But aint nobody got time for Vita.


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## CathyRina (Jun 20, 2014)

Anima000 said:


> sadly thats the only reason i considered buying the psvita, but when it comes down to buying a system just because of two games that are ports/enhaced versions, I still keep wondering , does it make it worth it to get the new system?


 
I dunno about you but I bought the system because of the upcoming Vita exclusives (Digimon Story, Phantasy Star Nova) that hopefully will get localized.
So now that I have a Vita I can freely choose which Version I want to buy.
Also many PSP and PS One games are available on that thing that have reasonable prices (compared to Ninty's Virtual Console prices).
And Japanese PSN accounts get to play PC Engine games so the library is huge.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I dunno about you but I bought the system because of the upcoming Vita exclusives (Digimon Story, Phantasy Star Nova) that hopefully will get localized. So now that I have a Vita I can freely choose which Version I want to buy. Also many PSP and PS One games are available on that thing that have reasonable prices (compared to Ninty's Virtual Console prices). And Japanese PSN accounts get to play PC Engine games so the library is huge.


Unfortunately Phantasy Star Nova has been confirmed to be a Japanese exclusive, at least for now. Perhaps SEGA will localize it later down the line if the PSVita picks up steam in the west. Shame, I was looking forward to that game myself.


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## CathyRina (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Unfortunately Phantasy Star Nova has been confirmed to be a Japanese exclusive, at least for now. Perhaps SEGA will localize it later down the line if the PSVita picks up steam in the west. Shame, I was looking forward to that game myself.


 
what a bummer.
Well at least I can import that game and play it anyway (Looking at you ninty) with the PSO World community translating the basic game mechanics like they did with PSP2i.


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## chavosaur (Jun 20, 2014)

The vita was the best handheld purchase I have ever made. With the 3DS there's a ton of first party games I wanna play bit I usually have to wait for months for their release. While with the Vita, there's so much stuff coming out on PS+, Indie games, and so many varieties of games on the store that I never get tired of and can't find myself to out the thing down. The 3DS does have a great library and so does the vita, but the great thing with the Vita is not having to wait so long for releases. There's almost always something you can get off of Plus, or on sale, or something on the horizon to play~


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

Judging by the current poll results it would seem that the next issue would have to be about the Nintendo 3DS... which is odd. I didn't realize that anyone needs to have it spelled out, I thought the reasons to buy a 3DS are pretty straight-forward and obvious. I'm beginning to think that this is either an attempt at trolling me into a _"fanboy"_ ragepisode _or_ a genuine desire for a 3DS buddy-buddy party. I'd like to remind everyone that just because the series is called _"Why Would I Want A..."_ doesn't mean that the answer will always be _"yes"_ or that everything in the article will be shiny positives. No spoilers though, just a heads-up.


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## GHANMI (Jun 20, 2014)

As for me (bought a PSP not too long ago and I'm having a blast with it), I think I'll just wait until its late life.
Yoshida saying the Vita will be mainly supported by indies and third parties isn't reassuring, like at all. Even the PSP was supported up to 2012 by first-party releases (like a total revamp remake of the first Oreshika, the west is actually getting the second game). Giving up PS Vita after TWO years, well... That doesn't exactly... inspire confidence.
I'll just wait for cheaper memory cards and play the DS Tales of Hearts, thank you very much.

(It does have some sexy titles, but as things stand now -indies being NOT system sellers- it's comparable to the GameCube or the Wii U in their early years...At least it's region-unlocked)


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2014)

The 3DS:
Great if you like Nintendo first party games on a really bare bones release schedule with long periods of time leaving little new or interesting to play. Bad if you like third party games or frequent releases, sales, a good eshop system, or an account system in general that doesn't echo the mid 2000s.

;O;


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## ov3rkill (Jun 20, 2014)

The good things I find on the PS Vita is the exclusive titles, great console specs., and if you're a PS Plus subscriber you can get free games every month. It's a win-win. But so far, there's not that much titles being announced especially during E3. The only good thing it does now is a PS4 remote play console. I just hope there were be more games being announced for this poor old console. I still love my OLED 1st gen Vita! 

3DS on the other hand is brimming with games. Awesome games that I'm looking forward to are Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate and I still have backlogs.


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## Vipera (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> PS+ games are rentals, so I'd assume that the moment PS+ support for the PSVita is dropped, you'll lose access to them. That being said, we're still years away from that happening - keep in mind that the PS2 has been discontinued in 2012 and as far as I know, servers for games are _*still*_ running.


The PS2 had a huge success though, I was talking about all of the projects that Sony tried to make us forget as soon as possible because they didn't sell much. At this point Vita isn't doing THAT bad, in terms of sales, but they have so little faith in their own console that they won't let the PSP die.


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## SirAileron (Jun 20, 2014)

My desire to enjoy a Vita frustrates me to no end. My hand posture still prevents me from getting the portable, as the analog sticks are most horrifically in the way of things like the d-pad and face buttons. And I really don't want to have to go with the Playstation TV, since that defeats the whole idea of having a portable fun-land. I was so hopeful when the redesign for the Vita was announced, but the accursed analog stick placement remained the same for the slimmer version.


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## TemplarGR (Jun 20, 2014)

No, seriously, currently Vita has no games. And it will not receive any in the foreseeable future.

Name me one, just one AAA Vita exclusive, a game that is worth getting a Vita for...

Lots of indies i can play on my phone, lots of crappy ports and lots of crappy re-releases. Nothing worth getting a Vita for...

Uncharted? Don't make me laugh...


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## The Real Jdbye (Jun 20, 2014)

But Foxi, Vita no gaems...


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## Joe88 (Jun 20, 2014)

TemplarGR said:


> Name me one, just one AAA Vita exclusive, a game that is worth getting a Vita for...


Tearaway


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## SirAileron (Jun 20, 2014)

My personal reason is Ys: Memories of Celceta


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## CathyRina (Jun 20, 2014)

Vipera said:


> The PS2 had a huge success though, I was talking about all of the projects that Sony tried to make us forget as soon as possible because they didn't sell much. At this point Vita isn't doing THAT bad, in terms of sales, but they have so little faith in their own console that they won't let the PSP die.


 
But the PSP is already officially dead


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## Hargrun (Jun 20, 2014)

Holy Cheetos! I wish I had voted for Genesis.

I still have mine (with over 10 years) very well preserved, but it would be nice to remember the old times...

Btw, pretty nice thread. Very informative! I'm still in doubt about the 3DS or Vita (Vita is winning). I don't want to buy a handheld with lots of japanese only releases... *(Not again!)*


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## Vipera (Jun 20, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> But the PSP is already officially dead


It has been, what, three years since Vita came out? I remember PSP being advertised a lot more than Vita in 2012/2013...


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## CathyRina (Jun 20, 2014)

Vipera said:


> It has been, what, three years since Vita came out? I remember PSP being advertised a lot more than Vita in 2012/2013...


 
Doesn't change the fact that the PSP is dead now.
The DS was getting releases such as Pokemon Black2/White2 and Kirby Mass Attack after the 3DS launch too.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2014)

Vipera said:


> It has been, what, three years since Vita came out? I remember PSP being advertised a lot more than Vita in 2012/2013...


The Vita has been out less than two and a half years. And as well, the PSP hasn't been actively advertised just about anywhere but Japan since around '09. You really, really overestimate the success of the PSP outside of Japan. The only reason it wasn't declared officially dead until not so long ago was exclusively because of the sales in Japan. You don't discontinue a system still selling around 40k units a week after being out for that many years at a healthy rate until you absolutely have to. As far as the west is concerned though, the PSP has been long dead.


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## Disco (Jun 20, 2014)

I was also in the ''Vita has no gaems'' bandvagon.
But when I bought PS4, and subscribed to ps+, a got a lot of free Vita games, and I liked the idea of remote play.
So I bought one, oh boy do I like it!!!
I like more the 3DS (I have 'bout 40+ gaems for it  , and nothing can replace mario kart or fire emblem), but Vita is fantastic handheld, too bad it's doing so badly....

I have 8gb card (which I got with the system), and I backup all my games on a PC, so no need for a bigger card right now


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## jagerstaffel (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Excuse me? Memory Sticks were _*incredibly*_ expensive at the time of the PSP's release - they're cheap _now_, years upon years after the system's release, but back in the day they were about as pricy, if not more, as PSVita memory cards. Here's a little excerpt from a 2004 review:
> 
> 
> Yep, that's _cheapo_ right there.
> ...


 
I find your above paragraphs grossly misinformed. I'm not sure how good anyone else's memory's are, but if you actually lived within those times using aforementioned products, you'll realize in those days, we we're trying to forget about Iomega Zip drives, embracing the portability and functionality of USB flash drives, and finally happy a squarish piece of plastic can hold more than a floppy disk. And they too were hitting the 100's.

SD cards were just starting to take off. I got a 256MB for almost $50. No one pays more than $4 for that today. A year later in 2005, after i had waited for the perfect sale, once there were an abundance of SD cards I finally got a 1GB for almost $70, not inlcuding the $25 MiR.

Now that article you linked about Memory stick prices, that's for the PRO lineup. Memory Stick Normal was already out. I remember that time Sony was touting those PRO high speeds as if it was much better than an SD card (not denying that), but they equally priced it for those speeds.

The next problem I find with your PSP reference is that during that time, no one was going to download UMD's to the Duo card. The memory card was just for music, videos, pictures, saves, dlc etc but no one was going to download UMD games to the Duo at launch. Not to mention connection speeds at the time were still in DSL land for a large populace (I myself upgraded from DSL to Cable in 2005, which was $50 for 3Mbps). Yay for zone based cable company monopoly's at the time.

It wasn't until the 1.5 firmware incident, PS1 emulator, and the launch of Sony's online store that the Duo cards were not only selling, but dropping in price too, with other manufacturers besides Sony having fun (Photofast Duo mSD adapter = win).

See where I'm going with this? As the piracy popularity of the PSP rose, internet speeds also picked up, Duo prices also went slightly down, and it was this very forum at GBAtemp where I learned about those counterfeit Photofast adapters. So why did Sony screw up big time with their VITA proprietary memory card prices? Not only is internet speeds faster than ever, but the popularity of their free games collection insists you have a decently sized card, especially for those who can't afford to keep deleting and downloading due to not-so-fast/ISP throttled internet. Add to the fact that one must be online just to connect their Vita to load music/videos (not sure if that changed since launch), the high priced proprietary cards totally scream money grab to me.

I'm still considering a Vita though just because it has some games I want to play. No amount of "it has no games" is going to stop me from getting one, even if someone is going to tell me "the vita is dead tomorrow!", I still want to get one because is _has_ games I want to play.

Oh, and just a little advice: don't do the next article on the 3DS. I'm just about tired of the "3D is a gimmick!", "no account system", "low powered" etc. arguments people spew out so commonly. For crying out loud, some dude on GameFAQs was complaining about Club Nintendo rewards sucking, and that they are entitled to the rewards because they _bought games that came with the coins_. Who the fkcu spends $40 for 40 coins?

This generation of gamers needs to learn, that you buy a gaming system for what it can do for you, not for what you can do with it. I don't want to hear how fast the CPU is, or how pretty the graphics look, or how many things you can do while playing a game, I'm more interested in the primary answer for: Are you enjoying the game?


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## FAST6191 (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Judging by the current poll results it would seem that the next issue would have to be about the Nintendo 3DS... which is odd. I didn't realize that anyone needs to have it spelled out, I thought the reasons to buy a 3DS are pretty straight-forward and obvious. I'm beginning to think that this is either an attempt at trolling me into a _"fanboy"_ ragepisode _or_ a genuine desire for a 3DS buddy-buddy party. I'd like to remind everyone that just because the series is called _"Why Would I Want A..."_ doesn't mean that the answer will always be _"yes"_ or that everything in the article will be shiny positives. No spoilers though, just a heads-up.



Not that I want to see a 3ds issue but I do have no idea why I would want one -- everything I liked about the GBA and DS seems to no longer apply here. The third party support was maybe not destroyed but definitely hobbled to near uselessness or perhaps "well I can get it on my far more useful device" by andrios, what first party titles I do enjoy seem to have been forgotten and what there is does not seem worth the hassle of upgrading for. I may have considered the zelda title but SNES zelda joined Chrono Trigger in the "I can see why people like it but damned if I do" pile. Given we are also now nearing the 3 and a half year mark and mobile phones/tablets are not likely to give it any respite I am not predicting a massive turnaround before all is said and done, granted I thought it was a complete writeoff about this time last year and it is now possibly in the "you could maybe have some fun" pile. Now it will probably end up a nail in the Wii U's coffin (several things coming up were previously what people might have considered a home console for) so that is nice. It probably will not even have good hacks or homebrew (see andrios comments earlier) on the scale of earlier devices. 

Anyway this is a vita thread.


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## Prior22 (Jun 20, 2014)

I find it a bit ironic when referencing the top Vita games to play you gave Youtube links and a paragraph description to five games (seemingly implying these were the top of the crop in terms of what Vita has to offer). One of those games is Sonic Racing Transformed (a game which is on practically every current system).

Examples like that are why the 3DS is superior. If you were to rank the top five or ten 3DS games, nearly every single one would be exclusive to the handheld. Third party support for Vita is tolerable. But even the biggest Nintendo hater would have to admit Nintendo has done a much better job of giving its handheld top notch exclusive content than Sony with the Vita.

Anyways I suppose the point of this post is to state when you rely on third party support to prop up your system or handheld, you're putting the success of it into the hands of other companies.  Which is why Vita is failing. Third party support has been tolerable, but not a runaway success like most of Sony's projects. 

But if you take the Nintendo approach and throw tons of exclusive content towards your handheld if it fails atleast you know you gave your project a fair shot at succeeding.


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## T-hug (Jun 20, 2014)

I love the Vita!  I play it daily and think it's the best handheld ever made.  It has a ton of games for it now and loads more coming, but it still kind of lacks that one major hit like a GTA or something that people would say: "I HAVE TO HAVE ONE!".
Great article too.


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## Mira (Jun 20, 2014)

now the myth is "there will be no gaemz coming up" and that is true quite frankly...


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## BORTZ (Jun 20, 2014)

Mira said:


> now the myth is "there will be no gaemz coming up" and that is true quite frankly...


 
First party at least, for a while. But that doesnt stop 3rd party support, or the booming Indie market. Which I am actually more interested in. Beings that I dont have a great computer, nor do I really enjoy gaming on my PC anyways, having a Vita for my indie magic carpet is pretty sweet.


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## emigre (Jun 20, 2014)

As someone who spends three hours a day commuting to and from work, the Vita has been a Godsend. I love being able to switch from a console experience to traditional handheld experience per commute.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

jagerstaffel said:


> *_Snip!*_


If your argument against _"Memory Sticks were expensive at the time of the PSP's launch"_ is going to be _"but those are High Speed ones"_ or _"SD cards were expensive too"_ then you have no argument - Memory Sticks were _still_ expensive and I don't feel _"misinformed"_ in any way. The whole reason why we saw so many odd MSPD adapters like the PhotoFast CR-3100 is _precisely_ because MSPD's were _overpriced_ in comparison to SD cards.





I said that Memory Sticks Pro Duo were expensive at the time of the PSP's release and I continue to stand by what I said - even non-high speed ones were around a $100 for 256GB, which is a lot to ask in 2004. The prices gradually became more affordable _later down the line_, but for a long time PSP users were standing on their heads to get storage on their PSP's cheaply. I mean, really...









Looks convenient, sign me up for four?  This _*wouldn't*_ exist if MSPD's weren't grossly overpriced, but they _were_.

As for the poll, again, if the community picks the 3DS for the next issue, I'll gladly write about it because it's a great system. Much like the PSVita it has its flaws, but I'm going to cover it as fairly as I can. 


Prior22 said:


> _*Snip!*_


The reason why I've included Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing: Transformed _(among *three* AAA PSVita exclusives and one multiplatform PlayStation exclusive)_ is precisely because it's available on many platforms - it's the point of comparison between the 3DS _(which has a terrible port of the game)_, home consoles _(which are the base platform)_ and the PSVita _(which has a port that's nothing short of the original)_. I could've just as easily picked any of the fantastic exclusives like WipeOut 2048, Touch my Katamari, Gravity Rush or Tearaway, but I didn't because I was making a point - I wasn't short of exclusives in my mind. 




Mira said:


> now the myth is "there will be no gaemz coming up" and that is true quite frankly...


And what about Natural Doctrine? Freedom Wars? Helldivers? Mighty No.9?


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## TyBlood13 (Jun 20, 2014)

I do want a Vita, but I have no way to afford it, a decent memory card, and a PS+ subscription right now
(Damn that Borderlands 2 Bundle is tantalizing....)


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## kristianity77 (Jun 20, 2014)

It amazes me how the vita isn't doing to well as it really is a fantastic piece of kit. I bought one on release date and yeah admittedly, sold it on a short while after. But I recently picked another one up, coupled with a 64GB card and then loaded it up with practically every PS Plus title worth playing that I'd accumulated and other games that I had bought in various PSN sales even though I didn't have a vita for well over a year.

Have just gone out and gotten Fez in the sale, as well at Txk (cheers Emigre for the advice on this one!) and also the FFX/X2 collection.

There is still loads of titles I dont have yet still want like Tearaway, Ys, Killzone, Ragnarok Ace, Last Reward and there is still probably a lot I havent come across yet.

Yes the memory cards are annoying, but I just bought one from Japan and got it sent over where the prices to me seemed quite reasonable. £58 for a 64gb card to me is "just" about ok.


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## Mario92 (Jun 20, 2014)

I certainly hope either memory card prices get down or we get new photofast thingy. With 3DS I have 32GB card which I guess won't never get full (I even have every single demo downloaded from eShop) while 16GB Vita card can hold only couple games at once.



Tom Bombadildo said:


> Most games that are cross-platform support cross-saves. I'm not entirely sure how many since there are few lists that have been updated the past year, but in general if a game gets release on PS3/PS4/Vita it'll support cross-saving. There are also quite a few cross-buy games as well (games that when bought on one platform can be played on all platforms).


 
That's what I was saying. If I buy all my games to either PC, Xbox or Nintendo I have to rebuy those games. I guess that's why they are making it more and more companion device with other playstations. With PC I would be better off buying Nvidia Shield and stream that stuff even if streaming isn't that great.



TyBlood13 said:


> I do want a Vita, but I have no way to afford it, a decent memory card, and a PS+ subscription right now
> (Damn that Borderlands 2 Bundle is tantalizing....)


 
It was pretty impressive they actually did pull that one off but still it seems like game mostly runs ~20FPS which ain't that great


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## kristianity77 (Jun 20, 2014)

Is borderlands resolution native to the vita?  If so then I dont understand why they didnt pull it down a bit to get the framerates up as that video above is shocking.  Thats borderline unplayable.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> Is borderlands resolution native to the vita? If so then I dont understand why they didnt pull it down a bit to get the framerates up as that video above is shocking. Thats borderline unplayable.


Perhaps they'll do just that in subsequent patches. The framerate drops in areas where there's a lot of geometry or A.I's like the Santuary, but other than that it seems fine. I do think they'll have to work on it more though, sub-20 FPS really doesn't look good and I don't want this to be one of those _"See? It totally can be done!"_ type of games.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 20, 2014)

Mario92 said:


> That's what I was saying. If I buy all my games to either PC, Xbox or Nintendo I have to rebuy those games. I guess that's why they are making it more and more companion device with other playstations. With PC I would be better off buying Nvidia Shield and stream that stuff even if streaming isn't that great.


 
Well, to be fair, the Shield's streaming is actually really nice as well >.> Streaming over LAN is almost always going to be nice, unless you're living in 2000 and don't have a router with >100mbps capabilities. 

Regarding the Borderlands 2 framerate on the Vita, I honestly think it varies on each device or something, because what I've played I've never gotten the huge drops like in the above video, but I've seen it with friends in the same area who do. Like, if I had to guess, I get like 28fps in the huge fields and maybe a stable 25 during huge combat waves and such. I do hope they add some sort of fix, though, because it'd be a really great port/"It can be done" if it'd just run at a stable 30fps.


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## jagerstaffel (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> If your argument against _"Memory Sticks weren't all that expensive at the time of the PSP's launch"_ is going to be _"but those are High Speed ones"_ or _"SD cards were expensive too"_ then you have to argument - Memory Sticks were _still_ expensive and I don't feel _"misinformed"_ in any way. The whole reason why we saw so many odd MSPD adapters like the PhotoFast CR-3100 is _precisely_ because MSPD's were _overpriced_ in comparison to SD cards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Ah, the main point I was trying to make was that one didn't need a big Duo for their PSP at launch because there was no store to download from, until later when both prices and downloadable games became common, compared to the Vita that had a whole lot to do at launch, and needing a whole lot of cash for a memory card to use. And I believe the Photofast duo existed not because Duo's were more expensive, but because in places such as Asia, $18 8GB mSD > $30 Sony 8GB Duo. The Duo wasn't expensive, something dirt cheaper just so happened to exist 

But wow, I have that 2x battery  I also recall there was a max drive that used the mini-USB port 

And I _just_ read about Shuhei Yoshida saying the Vita is now an Indie/remote play machine. Certainly not what I wanted to see, but practically knew was coming, is it even a viable platform for Indie developers now? I've read about indie games on the 3DS doing much better than their ported counterparts sales wise, but I don't hear about success stories on the Vita...


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## kristianity77 (Jun 20, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Well, to be fair, the Shield's streaming is actually really nice as well >.> Streaming over LAN is almost always going to be nice, unless you're living in 2000 and don't have a router with >100mbps capabilities.
> 
> Regarding the Borderlands 2 framerate on the Vita, I honestly think it varies on each device or something, because what I've played I've never gotten the huge drops like in the above video, but I've seen it with friends in the same area who do. Like, if I had to guess, I get like 28fps in the huge fields and maybe a stable 25 during huge combat waves and such. I do hope they add some sort of fix, though, because it'd be a really great port/"It can be done" if it'd just run at a stable 30fps.


 


I cant remember where I read it now but have seen a few times that there can be performance differences between running off a retail cart and running digitally off a memory stick.  I wonder if this is the case here?


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 20, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> I cant remember where I read it now but have seen a few times that there can be performance differences between running off a retail cart and running digitally off a memory stick. I wonder if this is the case here?


 
That may be the case, I have the digital download version and not a cart.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2014)

Guys, I've played through a lot of Borderlands 2 on my Vita now. I'd say I'm easily about 3/4 of the way through the main story on the first playthrough. I've done a lot of side stuff, completed one of the DLC packs, and am currently playing through another. With that said, some things to note:

My framerate only noticeably takes a bad hit in Sanctuary, and even that isn't anywhere near unplayable. It's primarily when first spawning at the fast travel station, and then being near the fast travel station seems to be a spot of lag. During the major event that occurs in Sanctuary though, the game smoothed out just fine. Otherwise in the rest of the game, it works brilliantly with only very minor drops here or there in the largest of areas. My aim has never been thrown off by lag spikes (and I would notice considering I use a scoped rifle), and all in all, the game is absolutely playable. I have no issues with high action areas, and in the busiest of missions, I think the game has actually run _better_.

On another note, crashes. These do happen periodically, but they aren't the game's fault directly. You can actually blame the Shift system for those. I discovered that, before making a Shift account and having the game auto-sign in in-game to show me as online, I got no crashes. After making my Shift account that it now auto signs into for me if I make no other action, thus technically showing me as online, I started getting periodic crashes. Last time I had to reboot the game a few days back, I set myself as offline from the title screen before booting my save, and low and behold, not one crash since. So there is a bad bit of coding there that needs to be resolved, but it doesn't have to affect the single player experience. I can't speak for how frequent crashes might be while playing online.

For load times, though some pre-release videos showed them being upwards of 30 seconds, I never feel like they take more than 15 seconds on the long end. So still not what a person would call short, but far from unbearable. Certainly the load times are better than in Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time on the Vita. Going between the hideout and the mission world in that game takes forever.

All in all, this is really one of those games you have to play for yourself. I've honestly seen nothing actually do this port justice. People just can't get past comparing it to its PS3 equivalent, and thus they lose the ability to judge the Vita version on its merits and what it does well. What it does well is shrinking down the massive Borderlands 2 and everything about it to a handheld that is not as powerful as the hardware it was initially made to load on, but making the proper concessions to improve the experience. I mean, hell, they didn't just release and abandon the game either. At least here in the states, we got patch 1.1 not so far back that smoothed out the framerate and such more, and I wouldn't be surprised if there will eventually be a patch 1.2 on the way as well.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

jagerstaffel said:


> Ah, the main point I was trying to make was that one didn't need a big Duo for their PSP at launch because there was no store to download from, until later when both prices and downloadable games became common, compared to the Vita that had a whole lot to do at launch, and needing a whole lot of cash for a memory card to use. And I believe the Photofast duo existed not because Duo's were more expensive, but because in places such as Asia, $18 8GB mSD > $30 Sony 8GB Duo. The Duo wasn't expensive, something dirt cheaper just so happened to exist


I have a Photofast Pro Duo adapter with twin SD slots and it was _way_ more affordable to get 16GB storage that way rather than by buying an original MSPD, even in 2012. It's true that you didn't need this much storage in 2004, but the prices weren't all that lower in, say, 2006, hence the bizarre solutions like the ones above. Needless to say, SD's were far more affordable than Memory Sticks and frankly, they continue to be cheaper.


> But wow, I have that 2x battery  I also recall there was a max drive that used the mini-USB port


Yep - that, and there were some hacks to use MP3 players of all-sorts as external drives. People _really_ wanted to get some cheap storage into their PSP's.


> And I _just_ read about Shuhei Yoshida saying the Vita is now an Indie/remote play machine. Certainly not what I wanted to see, but practically knew was coming, is it even a viable platform for Indie developers now? I've read about indie games on the 3DS doing much better than their ported counterparts sales wise, but I don't hear about success stories on the Vita...


What he said was that there will be fewer first-party games coming to the syste, not that it's becoming an Indie/remote play machine or that there will be no more first party games at all - let's not overdramatize here. As far as success stories are concerned, the PSVita just isn't a popular device at this point in time - it sold aprox. 8 million units to date and that's a fraction of the marketshare the 3DS enjoys, not to mention that it sells predominantly in Japan which enjoys a constant stream of releases for the system.


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## zeello (Jun 20, 2014)

Prior22 said:


> I find it a bit ironic when referencing the top Vita games to play you gave Youtube links and a paragraph description to five games (seemingly implying these were the top of the crop in terms of what Vita has to offer). One of those games is Sonic Racing Transformed (a game which is on practically every current system).
> 
> Examples like that are why the 3DS is superior. If you were to rank the top five or ten 3DS games, nearly every single one would be exclusive to the handheld. Third party support for Vita is tolerable. But even the biggest Nintendo hater would have to admit Nintendo has done a much better job of giving its handheld top notch exclusive content than Sony with the Vita.
> 
> ...


 
I play almost exclusively on handheld so I don't care if a game isn't exclusive.

Also, putting the success of a platform in the hands of other companies is what's supposed to happen. Nintendo is the exception not the rule.


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## SirAileron (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> Also, putting the success of a platform in the hands of other companies is what's supposed to happen. Nintendo is the exception not the rule.


So true. And Nintendo doesn't even want to be the exception, but the other platforms are so much easier to develop for.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> I play almost exclusively on handheld so I don't care if a game isn't exclusive. Also, putting the success of a platform in the hands of other companies is what's supposed to happen. Nintendo is the exception not the rule.


This is pretty much my approach to the matter as well. The hardware manufacturer is supposed to deliver a machine that can be competitive in its contemporary market in terms of specs and the ecosystem and give it a nice push at the beginning of its life cycle to build up an install base, the rest should roll naturally. First-party games are all fine and dandy, they're usually characterized by a high level of polish since the manufacturer is supposed to promote the platform as highly-capable, but there's only so many times one would want to play games from the same 4-5 franchises over and over. I personally like variety in my library, trying new things every now and then.

The PSVita is a great piece of hardware that has all the makings of a successful handheld and I can't quite shake the feeling that it cannot meet expectations not because it's lacking in any way but just because it's far more expensive than the budget 3DS. Back when the original 3DS was priced at $249.99, it didn't do too well either - people pointed at it and laughed and _"3DS has no gaems"_ was a commonly heard phrase. The system practically didn't pick up before the price point was reduced to $169.99, at which point it actually started selling and it was then when Nintendo could afford to release a 3DS XL for a higher price - the install base was there and developers actually had reasons to release games for the handheld. Perhaps as time goes by and the PSVita also drops in price by another $50 things will start looking up for it - I can only hope, since the system is really good and carries the legacy of the PSP, improving upon it in every single way.


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## zeello (Jun 20, 2014)

Vipera said:


> The PS2 had a huge success though, I was talking about all of the projects that Sony tried to make us forget as soon as possible because they didn't sell much. At this point Vita isn't doing THAT bad, in terms of sales, but they have so little faith in their own console that they won't let the PSP die.


1) PSP not dying says nothing of their faith in the vita. That's like saying ninty lacked faith in 3ds by offering dsi for so long.
2) Sony declared PSP dead just this month
3) PSP should never have died. It is the greatest.

anyway i am considering getting a vita but part of me just wants to play PSP. Theres no telling whether i will like Vita as much. Problem with sticking to psp though is nobody sells umd games anymore, and psp games prices on psn are high enough that I might as well be buying vita games instead. Gravity Rush is 13.49, PlayStation All Stars is 17.99. Why pay 19.99 for a PSP game especially when I know the UMD versions out there cost a fraction of the price.

edit: for the record I'd get vita right now if I wasn't so poor. I was just waiting for the 2000 model to be released in the us and now it has, so its really my fault at this point for not getting a vita.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> 1) PSP not dying says nothing of their faith in the vita. That's like saying ninty lacked faith in 3ds by offering dsi for so long.
> 2) Sony declared PSP dead just this month
> 3) PSP should never have died. It is the greatest.
> 
> anyway i am considering getting a vita but part of me just wants to play PSP. Theres no telling whether i will like Vita as much. Problem with sticking to psp though is nobody sells umd games anymore, and psp games prices on psn are high enough that I might as well be buying vita games instead. Gravity Rush is 13.49, PlayStation All Stars is 17.99. Why pay 19.99 for a PSP game especially when I know the UMD versions out there cost a fraction of the price.


Keep in mind that on the PSVita you have the option to map the D-Pad to the analog stick which fixes the cavalcade of problems with games like Monster Hunter Portable, Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker or any other PSP game that used the D-Pad to rotate the camera _(awkwardly)_ - it can put a breath of freshness into all those titles that used to be uncomfortable to play on the PSP.


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## zeello (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Keep in mind that on the PSVita you have the option to map the D-Pad to the analog stick which fixes the cavalcade of problems with games like Monster Hunter Portable, Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker or any other PSP game that used the D-Pad to rotate the camera _(awkwardly)_ - it can put a breath of freshness into all those titles that used to be uncomfortable to play on the PSP.


 
lies, the PSP has no problems whatsoever. To play Monster Hunter you use shoulder buttons to manipulate camera, like on 3DS.

PSP games were meant to be played on PSP with its lovely full sized dpad/buttons so that's the experience I want. Though at the same time, I like the idea of trying out various PSP games on Vita to find out which ones benefit from Vita controls / bigger screen / altered controls because I can imagine at least a few games that would.


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## Kalker3 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> lies, the PSP has no problems whatsoever. To play Monster Hunter you use shoulder buttons to manipulate camera, like on 3DS.
> 
> PSP games were meant to be played on PSP with its lovely full sized dpad/buttons so that's the experience I want. Though at the same time, I like the idea of trying out various PSP games on Vita to find out which ones benefit from Vita controls / bigger screen / altered controls because I can imagine at least a few games that would.



As much as I love the PSP, some games are way better with two analogs. The 3rd Birthday uses the D-Pad for camera movement (as well as weapon selection) and using another analog to select commands in KH is also much better than the D-Pad.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> lies, the PSP has no problems whatsoever. To play Monster Hunter you use shoulder buttons to manipulate camera, like on 3DS. PSP games were meant to be played on PSP with its lovely full sized dpad/buttons so that's the experience I want. Though at the same time, I like the idea of trying out various PSP games on Vita to find out which ones benefit from Vita controls / bigger screen / altered controls because I can imagine at least a few games that would.


Well, Monster Hunter may have been a poor example, but Peace Walker definitely suffers from the lack of a second analog stick, no matter which control scheme you pick. I really like the game, but it was just uncomfortable to play it on the PSP.


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## zeello (Jun 20, 2014)

I played peace walker demo. the control issues in that game could not have been fixed by vita


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## BORTZ (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Well, Monster Hunter may have been a poor example, but Peace Walker definitely suffers from the lack of a second analog stick, no matter which control scheme you pick. I really like the game, but it was just uncomfortable to play it on the PSP.


 
Gods Eater Burst also suffers from the lack of a second stick. Or nub in the PSP's case. I will say this though, IMO PSP games look like butts on the Vita. Enough that I even thought about going to the trouble of modding a second stick into my PSP... but there is no good way to wire it to the right buttons or program for an extra nub.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

BortzANATOR said:


> Gods Eater Burst also suffers from the lack of a second stick. Or nub in the PSP's case. I will say this though, IMO PSP games look like butts on the Vita. Enough that I even thought about going to the trouble of modding a second stick into my PSP... but there is no good way to wire it to the right buttons or program for an extra nub.


Consider fooling around with the filtering and colour space options, that might improve the overall look. The PSVita just has a much higher resolution, so upscaling does affect image quality _(hence the filtering)_.


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## BORTZ (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Consider fooling around with the filtering and colour space options, that might improve the overall look. The PSVita just has a much higher resolution, so upscaling does affect image quality _(hence the filtering)_.


Heh, I am the master of options and display settings. That was the first thing I tried. Its great the Vita can do it, I just think it looks poor. Ill keep my psp games on psp for now.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> I played peace walker demo. the control issues in that game could not have been fixed by vita


 

Really now? Because I played it on the Xbox 360 in the HD Collection and the second analog did the trick.

Also controlling a camera with the shoulder buttons wastes two valuable buttons that are super convenient and is not nearly as good as a second analog.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> I played peace walker demo. the control issues in that game could not have been fixed by vita


What exactly _wasn't_ fixed? Just map the camera to the analog stick and everything else to the shoulder buttons and face buttons.


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## thewarhammer (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Can you give me a more detailed list of what you'd expect from the system? As far as I know, it's got
> 
> J/RPG's _(FF-X and FF-X-II HD, Tales of Hearts R, Ys: Memories of Celecta, Demon's Gaze and more)_
> FPS'es _(KillZone: Mercenary, Borderlands 2, CoD:Blops - Declassified, Resistance: Burning Skies)_
> ...


 
...I partially agree with you. For an example, I have a Vita (2 to be exact) and a PS3. More than 2/3 of the list above are available to both systems (not counting the remakes/remasters/ports), so, besides the portability, there are few reasons to have a Vita based on your game list, for an example. The Vita have few REALLY good exclusives and that's the main problem with it. Sony's support is weak, and it's very sad because of the Vita's capabilities. And it really works greatly with the PS4, for an instance, but it's also sad that Sony's trying so hard to sell it as a companion console, instead of a full-fledged portable system.
...in the end, it's an amazing machine, and I don't regret to have'em. But it's support is just bad.


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## zeello (Jun 20, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Really now? Because I played it on the Xbox 360 in the HD Collection and the second analog did the trick.
> 
> Also controlling a camera with the shoulder buttons wastes two valuable buttons that are super convenient and is not nearly as good as a second analog.


 
iirc center camera is a single button. The other shoulder button does something else but I forget what. At least in 3DS Monster Hunter. (what, did you really think I would use touchscreen for camera?)

 if its so bad then why was it repeated on 3DS. (not to mention PSP has four monster hunter games)

furthermore, while you use 2nd analog you can't use face buttons. so its not necessarily an improvement over shoulder button.

But why even bring up consoles. This is strictly a handheld discussion and I was referring to PSP games, and not just any PSP games but games created as PSP exclusives, such as peace walker and the PSP monster hunters. So even if one of them suffered from poor controls then it reflects more poorly on the game and its creators than it does the system.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> iirc center camera is a single button. The other shoulder button does something else but I forget what. At least in 3DS Monster Hunter. (what, did you really think I would use touchscreen for camera?) if its so bad then why was it repeated on 3DS. (not to mention PSP has four monster hunter games) furthermore, while you use 2nd analog you can't use face buttons. so its not necessarily an improvement over shoulder button. But why even bring up consoles. This is strictly a handheld discussion and I was referring to PSP games, and not just any PSP games but games created as PSP exclusives, such as peace walker and the PSP monster hunters. So even if one of them suffered from poor controls then it reflects more poorly on the game and its creators than it does the system.


The single button only centers the camera, that's why MH3U has CPP support and personally I just can't play the game without it. Controlling the camera with just the centering button takes a lot away from the game when the combat is fast-paced and requires a lot of maneuverability, controlling the camera with an analog stick or slider is just better. I brought it up because some games genuinely _"play"_ better on the PSVita, it's that simple. That, and mapping the analog stick to the d-pad _does not_ make the face buttons unusable, I don't know where you've got that one from.


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## Arras (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> iirc center camera is a single button. The other shoulder button does something else but I forget what. At least in 3DS Monster Hunter. (what, did you really think I would use touchscreen for camera?)
> 
> *if its so bad then why was it repeated on 3DS. (not to mention PSP has four monster hunter games)*
> 
> ...


because nintendo can be a bit dense. They even released the CPP (although it got pretty much used by nothing)



Foxi4 said:


> The single button only centers the camera, that's why MH3U has CPP support and personally I just can't play the game without it. Controlling the camera with just the centering button takes a lot away from the game when the combat is fast-paced and requires a lot of maneuverability, controlling the camera with an analog stick or slider is just better. I brought it up because some games genuinely _"play"_ better on the PSVita, it's that simple. That, and mapping the analog stick to the d-pad _does not_ make the face buttons unusable, I don't know where you've got that one from.


It does - if you hold your right thumb on the second analog stick, you can't use the face buttons with said thumb at the same time because it's busy using the control stick. At least, I think that's what he meant


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

Arras said:


> because nintendo can be a bit dense. They even released the CPP (although it got pretty much used by nothing)


I wish the CPP got a bit more use as a peripheral, it really improves the games that do support it, not to mention that the grip is more comfortable, but apparently even Nintendo first-party titles don't support it aside from Kid Icarus. They're the ones who should push the device the most, but I think they gave up on it.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 20, 2014)

Arras said:


> It does - if you hold your right thumb on the second analog stick, you can't use the face buttons with said thumb at the same time because it's busy using the control stick. At least, I think that's what he meant


 
Not entirely sure on the CPP on the 3DS since I've never used one, but you can easily hit buttons and use the right analog stick on the Vita  Same could be said with the DS4 controller, too.

EDIT: At the same time, that is.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Not entirely sure on the CPP on the 3DS since I've never used one, but you can easily hit buttons and use the right analog stick on the Vita  Same could be said with the DS4 controller, too.


I can assure you that it's about ten zillion quadrillion times better than trying to reach the d-pad with your left thumb _(which isn't ergonomical and forces you to stop moving)_, trying to reach the virtual d-pad on the touchscreen with your right thumb _(gotta love it when you can't even feel if you're pressing the button or not)_ or using the shoulder button to center the camera _(meaning you have no choice as far as the camera is concerned - it's either right behind you or nowhere at all)_. Seriously, the game is barely playable without a second analog stick without a lot of getting used to.


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## zeello (Jun 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The single button only centers the camera, that's why MH3U has CPP support and personally I just can't play the game without it. Controlling the camera with just the centering button takes a lot away from the game when the combat is fast-paced and requires a lot of maneuverability, controlling the camera with an analog stick or slider is just better. I brought it up because some games genuinely _"play"_ better on the PSVita, it's that simple. That, and mapping the analog stick to the d-pad _does not_ make the face buttons unusable, I don't know where you've got that one from.


 
in response to that last sentence. What I meant was that to move camera you need to move your thumb away from face buttons. Meaning you can't look around while doing stuff, at least not simultaneously.

p.s. I did not mean to derail the thread.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2014)

zeello said:


> in response to that last sentence. What I meant was that to move camera you need to move your thumb away from face buttons. Meaning you can't look around while doing stuff, at least not simultaneously.
> 
> p.s. I did not mean to derail the thread.


Well, yeah, but you gain the ability to set the camera far more accurately than with centering. Not only that, when you don't have the time to take the thumb off the face button, you can still use centering just fine. Don't worry, you haven't derailed the thread - we're just discussing the advantages/disadvantages of dual/single analog stick/slider setups, that's entirely on-topic.


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## emigre (Jun 20, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> as well at Txk (cheers Emigre for the advice on this one!) and also the FFX/X2 collection.


 

No probs, I just have awesome taste in gaems.


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## Mira (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> And what about Natural Doctrine? Freedom Wars? Helldivers? Mighty No.9?


Those were old games that were announced a long time ago,if sony were to cancel them (which they would have done so if they could) there would be rage.
Did you read Yoshida's interview by the way?Even sony's head dev said so and that,foxi is something that even you can't counter-argument about


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Mira said:


> Those were old games that were announced a long time ago,if sony were to cancel them (which they would have done so if they could) there would be rage. Did you read Yoshida's interview by the way?Even sony's head dev said so and that,foxi is something that even you can't counter-argument about


To be precise, Yoshida said that there will be _less_ PSVita first-party titles from now on. _Less_ doesn't mean _none_ - does that count as a counter-argument to you?

The PS4 is selling like cure for cancer, it's obvious that they want to push that snowball down the mountain until it turns into an avalanche. Even _if_ Sony completely stopped releasing first-party titles _(which wouldn't be a huge loss, all things considered. The PSVita currently covers most of their IP's already, the only ones I can think of that they haven't released yet are inFamous and Parappa the Rapper. You've got your KillZone, WipeOut, God of War Collection, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Uncharted, Resistance and probably more)_, there's still third-party developers out there making games for the system, Natural Doctrine being one of them. I won't shed a tear if first-party titles will slow down, I haven't even caught up with all the ones they've released so far.


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## zeello (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm rather surprised Sony came out and said it. Wouldn't that just cause a ripple effect resulting in even less sales and third party support? So why not just keep hush about it...


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## Ulieq (Jun 21, 2014)

Money walks and bull shit talks basically.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

zeello said:


> I'm rather surprised Sony came out and said it. Wouldn't that just cause a ripple effect resulting in even less sales and third party support? So why not just keep hush about it...


The question was awkwardly asked. Essentially Yoshida took the question as _"will there be a lot of first-party exclusives coming for the system?"_ rather than what was actually asked - whether they'll keep releasing first-party content. There's a few snippets I'd like to underline.

_"Yoshida: (...) we continue to make games cross-platform games, especially on digital side." _- this is a big deal to me because it's something I like. Cross-buy bundles are great since you can take your game anywhere you go and play it on the PSVita, come back home and continue playing on your PS3/PS4 on the big screen, that was always a big selling point to me.

_"Polygon: The company recently announced localization plans for three first party PS Vita titles, Soul Sacrifice Delta, Freedom Wars, and Oreshika: Tainted Bloodlines"_ - I was already happy about Soul Sacrifice Delta since I enjoyed the original and Freedom Wars because it looks excellent, but Oreshika: Tainted Bloodlines is news to me. I haven't heard of the game before and it seems interesting, it has an Okami-like art style, although it does seem a bit weeaboo.


Spoiler











Back to the interview though, he definitely stresses two things - that indies and third-party games take the heat off Sony's first-party studios and that they're planning to make Remote Play and PS Now big on the platform. We'll see where that takes us in the long run.

The whole interview can be found here.


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## assassinz (Jun 21, 2014)

For the money you have to spend and the overall gaming experience, the Vita doesn't appeal to me as a gamer. Yes it is a portable system with high graphics capability, but it doesn't provide enough A-list titles.  I want a system that has games I'm interested in playing.

Another issue is that Sony doesn't seem too concerned with promoting the Vita. So what does that tell you?


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2014)

assassinz said:


> Another issue is that Sony doesn't seem too concerned with promoting the Vita. So what does that tell you?


When has Sony been good at promoting their systems? They've just kind of let their systems sell themselves since they started making systems. The games sold the PS1 and the PS2 better than any advertising campaign, the PS3 I honestly don't remember seeing any ads for, but it has sold just fine in the long term. The PSP was advertised for awhile, and that sold like crap in the west for the most part. In that respect, Sony common sense dictates that more advertising and promoting isn't always good. Sometimes its best to just get the games out there and hope for the best.

On the inverse, Nintendo seems overly concerned in promoting their 3DS despite the fact that their handhelds sell on their legacy alone. What does that tell you?

Also, in case you haven't been keeping up, Sony has been shifting to promote (yes, they are doing something at this point) the Vita as a companion to the PS4. That is their big push at this point, and honestly, it's not a bad idea. It may shift more PS4 units and more Vita units simultaneously depending on how interested people are in remote playing their PS4 games on something that doubles as an independent console with its own game collection.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Nathan Drake I'm not so sure about that - the PS1 was pretty well-advertised. I remember the thing slapped all over the place. Booths with playable demos at electronic stores, whole magazines dedicated to the platform, that kind of thing - it was definitely the talk of the town where I lived. Truth to be told though, did mostly hear about the games, about how Crash was great, Ace Combat was lots of fun and MGS was the best thing ever... but I couldn't enjoy that for a long time since I was PC Master Race at the time . There were also some TV ads, some funny _(post-release)_, some downright creepy _(pre-release)_, and judging by future PS2, PS3 and PSVita ads, the creepy ones were more to their liking. Whatever their marketing team is taking, I sure as hell don't want any.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Nathan Drake I'm not so sure about that - the PS1 was pretty well-advertised. I remember the thing slapped all over the place. Booths with playable demos at electronic stores, whole magazines dedicated to the platform, that kind of thing - it was definitely the talk of the town where I lived. There were also some TV ads, some funny _(post-release)_, some downright creepy _(pre-release)_, and judging by future PS2, PS3 and PSVita ads, the creepy ones were more to their liking. Whatever their marketing team is taking, I sure as hell don't want any.


I guess I was just too young to remember the PS1 properly as far as advertising goes. I don't recall much PS2 advertising though, at least not TV advertising. I only really knew what it was because my friends had it. I do remember some of the ridiculously creepy ads that have cropped up from time to time, but I like to pretend those don't exist since I don't think they do anything to make anybody actually want any of their game systems.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Nathan Drake said:


> I guess I was just too young to remember the PS1 properly as far as advertising goes. I don't recall much PS2 advertising though, at least not TV advertising. I only really knew what it was because my friends had it. I do remember some of the ridiculously creepy ads that have cropped up from time to time, but I like to pretend those don't exist since I don't think they do anything to make anybody actually want any of their game systems.


They're memorable though, that's for sure. #ScarredForLife, they were clearly going for the shock value.


Spoiler









_"Oh God, alright, I'll buy your system, just please make it stop!" *__gouges_ _his eyes out* _


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## jagerstaffel (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> What he said was that there will be fewer first-party games coming to the syste, not that it's becoming an Indie/remote play machine or that there will be no more first party games at all - let's not overdramatize here. As far as success stories are concerned, the PSVita just isn't a popular device at this point in time - it sold aprox. 8 million units to date and that's a fraction of the marketshare the 3DS enjoys, not to mention that it sells predominantly in Japan which enjoys a constant stream of releases for the system.


 
Here's the problem I've got with what he's saying. He's saying players would be discouraged playing low graphical quality games on the Vita just because they experienced the PS4. Seriously? Players certainly didn't seem to mind the DS looked nothing like the Wii. I'm not even going to mention how the situation seems reversed for the 3DS/WiiU. All he cared about was the graphics, instead of putting a Last of Us type of game on the Vita, they had the first handheld with dual joysticks, they had a chance for some great playing games but naw, players won't like it if it isn't PS4 quality.

And then there's this thing about Playstation Now. Isn't this a video game streaming service? What happened to all those reasons about playing Vita on a bus ride, are you guys seriously considering using Wifi to stream a game while out there? A quick session a Starbucks? Can their connection even handle that? So in effect the Vita is now an Indie/_less_ 1st party/3rd party handheld on the road, PS4 quality gaming at home device.

In the end there was only 1 game I wanted to play on the Vita and it wasn't 1st party, so forget I said all of the above  If there was one thing I wanted from Sony, just an apology that they screwed up with the Vita would be fine. Like how the Final Fantasy Type-0 guy apologized. Acknowledge to Vita owners that the original vision can no longer be followed on. And then make amends with Vita owners by lowering their memory card prices. They can tell which PS+ owners have a Vita, right? Like offer the Memory cards at discounted prices in their online store for Vita owners.

It's no surprise a significant number of Vitas showed up on Ebay now compared to when I checked ebay right after E3. Oh maybe this is my chance


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## juins (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 this is your 2nd BFWWIWA? what system did u cover in the first?

Great way to organize the information in the article. It was likeable from the beginning up until the end.


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## natkoden (Jun 21, 2014)

juins said:


> Foxi4 this is your 2nd BFWWIWA? what system did u cover in the first?
> 
> Great way to organize the information in the article. It was likeable from the beginning up until the end.


 
Sega Saturn

http://gbatemp.net/threads/bfwwiwa-issue-1-sega-saturn.361538/


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

jagerstaffel said:


> Here's the problem I've got with what he's saying. He's saying players would be discouraged playing low graphical quality games on the Vita just because they experienced the PS4. Seriously? Players certainly didn't seem to mind the DS looked nothing like the Wii. I'm not even going to mention how the situation seems reversed for the 3DS/WiiU. All he cared about was the graphics, instead of putting a Last of Us type of game on the Vita, they had the first handheld with dual joysticks, they had a chance for some great playing games but naw, players won't like it if it isn't PS4 quality.


He's obviously going to push the PS4 as much as humanly possible, it's their _"next big thing"_ and it appears to be doing a zillion times better than the PSVita, so you'd he hard-pressed not to think that investing more effort into that system will reap more benefits in the long run. I don't get the whole _"disappointment with graphics"_ part of the conversation and I think it was somewhat forced - the PSVita already showed a number of games that are a stunning display of its capabilities. I find it hard to complain when the handheld is capable of rendering visuals like this:


Spoiler














> And then there's this thing about Playstation Now. Isn't this a video game streaming service? What happened to all those reasons about playing Vita on a bus ride, are you guys seriously considering using Wifi to stream a game while out there? A quick session a Starbucks? Can their connection even handle that? So in effect the Vita is now an Indie/_less_ 1st party/3rd party handheld on the road, PS4 quality gaming at home device.


I would definitely consider streaming _"in Starbucks"_ as long as the bandwidth would be fine, and it's not like the service requires a lot of it. If PS4 online streaming is any indication, a 5 megabit connection is apparently all it takes. Considering the fact that many companies are rolling in affordable gigabit connections, the future of such a solution isn't as grim as you might think. With the rate connections are improving right now, it's not a long shot to imagine streaming on-the-go, really.


> In the end there was only 1 game I wanted to play on the Vita and it wasn't 1st party, so forget I said all of the above  If there was one thing I wanted from Sony, just an apology that they screwed up with the Vita would be fine. Like how the Final Fantasy Type-0 guy apologized. Acknowledge to Vita owners that the original vision can no longer be followed on. And then make amends with Vita owners by lowering their memory card prices. They can tell which PS+ owners have a Vita, right? Like offer the Memory cards at discounted prices in their online store for Vita owners.


The only thing they screwed up with the PSVita is the pricing though, since the system entered the market they've released a barrage of first-party content, both exclusive and cross-platform, now they have another new platform to worry about, so their efforts have to shift to the system that needs the launch boost. As far as the memory cards are concerned, that subject is really beating the horse that's long since dead - as I've mentioned in my piece, game bundles already come with a memory card. That's not to say that I wouldn't want to see a nice memory card price cut, of course. As far as monitoring PS+ owners and giving them a memory card discount, for all intents and purposes, you would have to be _*insane*_ to subscribe to Plus and _not_ have a high-capacity memory card already - with two or more new games each month you can't possibly keep up with playing all of them. As I said earlier, I have a 32GB card which was the highest capacity available when I bought it and I have to shuffle the games and make tough decisions every single month to decide what stays and what goes. My backlog of unfinished PSVita games is not even funny at this point.


> It's no surprise a significant number of Vitas showed up on Ebay now compared to when I checked ebay right after E3. Oh maybe this is my chance


Well, all I can say is _"try it, and if you won't like it, sell it off"_ - there's no harm in that and you just might enjoy the handheld. I'm definitely enjoying mine and all I can wish for is that it would get some more attention from developers, but that will probably come as the user base expands - slowly, but surely. The PS3 was picking up steam for a number of years before it became a viable purchase and I'm afraid that the PSVita will be no different.


juins said:


> Foxi4 this is your 2nd BFWWIWA? what system did u cover in the first?
> 
> 
> Great way to organize the information in the article. It was likeable from the beginning up until the end.


I'm happy to hear that you had a good time reading it. As natkoden mentioned, the first system was one of my favourite underdogs - the Sega Saturn, I invite you to read that one as well. I'll keep making'em as long as you guys read'em, so tune in for future issues.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm happy to hear that you had a good time reading it. As natkoden mentioned, the first system was one of my favourite underdogs - the Sega Saturn, I invite you to read that one as well. I'll keep making'em as long as you guys read'em, so tune in for future issues.


 
Good, now do a 3DS article.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Good, now do a 3DS article.


Hey, that hasn't been decided yet! The purple Gamecube wonder appears to be catching up, there's still hope!


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## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Hey, that hasn't been decided yet! The purple Gamecube wonder appears to be catching up, there's still hope!


 

Well, either way, you're more than welcome to do the 3DS article - I can draft a suicide letter and have it posted to the portal a few days after declaring your last will and testament!  

EDIT: Hmm... the blue gamecube has 21 votes... should I dupe to make it change favor...?


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Well, either way, you're more than welcome to do the 3DS article - I can draft a suicide letter and have it posted to the portal a few days after declaring your last will and testament!
> 
> EDIT: Hmm... the blue gamecube has 21 votes... should I dupe to make it change favor...?


There's no need, Una-- I mean, Ryukouki - I think I'll manage either way. Both systems have their benefits, but I won't spoil anything - I guess you'll just have to vote and see where that takes us.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> There's no need, Una-- I mean, Ryukouki - I think I'll manage either way. Both systems have their benefits, but I won't spoil anything - I guess you'll just have to vote and see where that takes us.


 

I totally wouldn't dupe, what are you going on about?!   I had a lot of fun with the Gamecube and 3DS, so either way, I'll be sad for most of the way.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I totally wouldn't dupe, what are you going on about?!   I had a lot of fun with the Gamecube and 3DS, so either way, I'll be sad for most of the way.


I'm not going to be harsh on them... much! I love all consoles*!


*I just like to analyze what the designers completely screwed up.


----------



## DJPlace (Jun 21, 2014)

vita is the portable Ps3, has PSP is the portable PS2. there are a couple of good games come out for vita (well there fighters at least) arcana heart 3 max!! some other games i can't recall.

also if you plan to buy DLC and store the games go to ebay and get a 64GB memory card from them.


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## natkoden (Jun 21, 2014)

DJPlace said:


> vita is the portable Ps3, has PSP is the portable PS2. there are a couple of good games come out for vita (well there fighters at least) arcana heart 3 max!! some other games i can't recall.
> 
> also if you plan to buy DLC and store the games go to ebay and get a 64GB memory card from them.


 
To be honest, I prefer the Vita already.

PSP was a huge bore.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

natkoden said:


> To be honest, I prefer the Vita already. PSP was a huge bore.


I enjoy both, to be honest. Most of my problems with the PSP spring from the form-factor and the lack of a touchscreen rather than the library, many-a-nights were spent playing Monster Hunter, MGS: Peace Walker, FF IV: Crisis Core, Patapon _(...why is there no new Patapon game again? Pata-pata, step it up, Sony!)_ and The 3rd Birthday, but hey! Each to their own!


----------



## natkoden (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I enjoy both, to be honest. Most of my problems with the PSP spring from the form-factor and the lack of a touchscreen rather than the library, many-a-nights were spent playing Monster Hunter, MGS: Peace Walker, FF IV: Crisis Core, Patapon _(...why is there no new Patapon game again? Pata-pata, step it up, Sony!)_ and The 3rd Birthday, but hey! Each to their own!


 
that was the thing with the PSP

Played what I wanted to play and sold it. No regrets.

On the other hand, selling my DS was a huge mistake.


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I enjoy both, to be honest. Most of my problems with the PSP spring from the form-factor and the lack of a touchscreen rather than the library, many-a-nights were spent playing Monster Hunter, MGS: Peace Walker, FF IV: Crisis Core, Patapon _(...why is there no new Patapon game again? Pata-pata, step it up, Sony!)_ and The 3rd Birthday, but hey! Each to their own!


 

Pon pon pata-pon! *indecipherable singing*

Waaaait, you guys are forgetting Dissidia Final Fantasy.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Pon pon pata-pon! *indecipherable singing* Waaaait, you guys are forgetting Dissidia Final Fantasy.


What am I supposed to do here, list the whole library? Wait for the PSP issue! 


natkoden said:


> that was the thing with the PSP. Played what I wanted to play and sold it. No regrets. On the other hand, selling my DS was a huge mistake.


Oh, I definitely wouldn't sell either off, but then again, I'm a mad collector - what do I know? Besides, I still fool around with DS development every now and then, so I kinda need one around to test stuff on hardware _(in fact, my IT final assignment was an educational game for the DS!)_.


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> What am I supposed to do here, list the whole library? Wait for the PSP issue! Oh, I definitely wouldn't sell either off, but then again, I'm a mad collector - what do I know? Besides, I still fool around with DS development every now ant then, so I kinda need one around to test stuff on hardware _(in fact, my IT final assignment was an educational game for the DS!)_.


 

You guys were talking PSP... seemed like a good idea at the time...


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> You guys were talking PSP... seemed like a good idea at the time...


_*Secretly hasn't got around to playing Dissidia yet, damn it! Every console I own has a backlog of games I haven't tried!*_ That's okay Ryu.


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> _*Secretly hasn't got around to playing Dissidia yet, damn it! Every console I own has a backlog of games I haven't tried!*_ That's okay Ryu.


 

You are really missing out on Dissidia. It's probably one of my favorite games of all time... even with my bad taste in gaming.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> You are really missing out on Dissidia. It's probably one of my favorite games of all time... even with my bad taste in gaming.


I know, I know, everybody keeps telling me that, especially about duodecim! I'll definitely try it one of those days, maybe it'll turn out to be a sleeper hit for me.


----------



## natkoden (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> You are really missing out on Dissidia. It's probably one of my favorite games of all time... even with my bad taste in gaming.


 
That explains everything!


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I know, I know, everybody keeps telling me that, especially about duodecim! I'll definitely try it one of those days, maybe it'll turn out to be a sleeper hit for me.


 

It's a more fluid and polished Super Smash! game, but with Final Fantasy characters. You can't go wrong!  Probably the best action fighter game I've played.

EDIT: natkoden: Shush, you!  I don't really get the luxury to play a lot of games anymore. I will however make the exception for Ruby and Sapphire remakes, but anyway!  I only sleep about _eight hours a week_, and game about thirty minutes a week due to being a university student, an employee, and a researcher in a glass jar. Gib me brak plix!


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

natkoden said:


> That explains everything!


I take it you're not enjoying his series? 


Ryukouki said:


> It's a more fluid and polished Super Smash! game, but with Final Fantasy characters. You can't go wrong!  Probably the best action fighter game I've played.


It certaily looks alluring, I'll give it a go once I have more time, which will probably be after I finish my thesis... still a work-in-progress. 


> Shush, you!  I don't really get the luxury to play a lot of games anymore. I only sleep about _eight hours a week_, and game about thirty minutes a week due to being a university student, an employee, and a researcher in a glass jar. Gib me brak plix!


Dude, you gotta take care of yourself, that lifestyle isn't good for you at all. I used to say that _"sleeping is for the weak"_ and powered through the day with an energy drink in hand, but damn, you can only do that for so long!


----------



## natkoden (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> It's a more fluid and polished Super Smash! game, but with Final Fantasy characters. You can't go wrong!  Probably the best action fighter game I've played.
> 
> EDIT: natkoden: Shush, you!  I don't really get the luxury to play a lot of games anymore. I will however make the exception for Ruby and Sapphire remakes, but anyway!  I only sleep about _eight hours a week_, and game about thirty minutes a week due to being a university student, an employee, and a researcher in a glass jar. Gib me brak plix!


 
I should take your example then.

University student here, but tons of free time (my grades say hi).


----------



## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

natkoden said:


> I should take your example then.
> 
> University student here, but tons of free time (my grades say hi).


 

My grades are still high and I still have a great chance to get into medical school, so I'm not dead yet.  Besides, I only have one life. Why waste it on sleep?

(laughs) I can't sleep regardless even if I wanted to. 

God damn it, I want to actually pick up a Vita now.  Seems like it could be fun...


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> God damn it, I want to actually pick up a Vita now.  Seems like it could be fun...




Yes, yes... succumb to the dark side, cross the threshold from Nintendolandia to the glorious PlayStation empire...


----------



## Mira (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> To be precise, Yoshida said that there will be _less_ PSVita first-party titles from now on. _Less_ doesn't mean _none_ - does that count as a counter-argument to you?
> 
> The PS4 is selling like cure for cancer, it's obvious that they want to push that snowball down the mountain until it turns into an avalanche. Even _if_ Sony completely stopped releasing first-party titles _(which wouldn't be a huge loss, all things considered. The PSVita currently covers most of their IP's already, the only ones I can think of that they haven't released yet are inFamous and Parappa the Rapper. You've got your KillZone, WipeOut, God of War Collection, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Uncharted, Resistance and probably more)_, there's still third-party developers out there making games for the system, Natural Doctrine being one of them. I won't shed a tear if first-party titles will slow down, I haven't even caught up with all the ones they've released so far.


even before the interview the first-party titles weren't many if you don't count portings or low average class ones....so is just natural to take less than a few as none.
speaking of third parties,there are all shipping to nintendo when it comes to Handheld as far as i see...
Of course in japan there will always be some nice games coming out from 3rd parties but how many of them will come to us and eu?(i so wanted to learn japanese instead of english.....)
i was right about the E3 let's wait one year and see if i got this too right....


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Mira said:


> Even before the interview the first-party titles weren't many if you don't count portings or low average class ones....so is just natural to take less than a few as none.


Is that so? I'll play that game. So, no ports from other systems, so collections are out the window, and no low-budget titles, is that it? Here we go, then:

Everybody's Golf 6 _(I will treat this as a PSVita game and not a multiplat because it was originally released as a PSVita exclusive, it was ported to the PS3 a year later)_
KillZone: Mercenary
LittleBigPlanet PSVita
PSVita Pets
Soul Sacrifice/Soul Sacrifice Delta _(I won't count that as two separate games to give you an advantage, as the latter is an expanded version of the former, not a completely new game)_
Tearaway
Uncharted: Golden Abyss
Unit 13
Resistance: Burning Skies _(although that was pretty average)_
WipeOut 2048
Gravity Rush
ModNation Racers: Road Trip
Now, in addition to those, Sony also released a number of multiplatform titles - games released both on the PSVita and on the PS3 at the same time, often in Cross-Buy bundles, so I'm not going to treat them as ports either as they were simultaneously developed for both platforms.

MLB: The Show 12/13/14 _(Again, I will not count those three as separate games, even though I probably should)_
PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale
Ratchet & Clank: FFA
Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time
No cheating, just first-party games that aren't cheap minigames, altogether 16 titles from the launch in 2012 till now, so in 2 years. How things are on the other side of the rainbow? No ports, no cheap minigames, just retail releases.

Animal Crossing: New Leaf
Fire Emblem: Awakening
Kid Icarus: Uprising
Kirby: Triple Deluxe
TLoZ: A Link Between Worlds
Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon
Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
Mario Golf: World Tour
Mario Kart 7
Mario Party: Island Tour
Mario Tenis Open
Mario & Sonic Sochi Olimpic Games _(not sure if I should even count that as first-party since it's entirety made by Sega, Mario characters are guest stars, but I'll give it to you because it's exclusive to Nintendo)_
New Super Mario Bros.
Paper Mario - Sticker Star
Super Mario 3D Land
Yoshi's New Island
Pilotwings Resort
Nintendogs + Cats
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity
Super Pokemon Rumble
Pokemon X/Y
21 titles released from 2011 up until present day, which is three years, not bad! Now, if only _*11*_ of those titles weren't Mario games, things would be pretty sweet. Not a *single* new Metroid, F-Zero or StarFox. Oh, the variety, I just can't handle it! 


> Speaking of third parties,there are all shipping to nintendo when it comes to Handheld as far as i see... Of course in japan there will always be some nice games coming out from 3rd parties but how many of them will come to us and eu?(i so wanted to learn japanese instead of english.....) i was right about the E3 let's wait one year and see if i got this too right....


If you say so - we'll see what Gamescom and TGS will bring.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2014)

Third parties wanting to go with Nintendo? All my lol. If third parties don't pick the Vita, they'll probably just primarily bow out of handheld game development for this gen. The 3DS has not exactly been a bastion of third party support at this point. It has easily received less third party support than any of its predecessors at this point in time. I won't say the Vita has been the land of amazing third party support either (I mean, look at what SE did to us with Type-0), but it really is silly to say that third parties have shown any collective favor towards either handheld at this point in time.


----------



## Mira (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Is that so? I'll play that game. So, no ports from other systems, so collections are out the window, and no low-budget titles, is that it? Here we go, then:
> 
> Everybody's Golf 6 _(I will treat this as a PSVita game and not a multiplat because it was originally released as a PSVita exclusive, it was ported to the PS3 a year later)_
> KillZone: Mercenary
> ...


 
i knew you were gonna show a bunch of games...

i give you that the comparison alone show that they are quite even but you also have to give me that i did say that sony WAS supporting vita,in fact if you look carefully at the distribution ratio 2/3 of those games were in the first year while 1/3 in the second (and let's not comparate those 16 with the other 21.....by the way you classify a tennis game,a golf game,a kart game,a rpg and a platform together just because they have the name mario in common?)

anyway less than 6 how many would be?1,2 games a year?

it's not that i wanna win arguments,i didn't get anything when i shoot on down that one about the E3...but you're something to still defend sony's last handheld


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

It might be their last, who knows? My point is, they did their part to support the console, now it's all in the hands of third parties. As for the Mario thing, of course they're completely different games for the most part, but the whole Mario theme business has been going on for ages and it's practically a running joke at this point. If Mario was a cow, he'd be dragging his udder across the floor already.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Jun 21, 2014)

But Foxi? can it plai mah pierahted peeSPee ICE "O"s?


----------



## Arras (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Is that so? I'll play that game. So, no ports from other systems, so collections are out the window, and no low-budget titles, is that it? Here we go, then:
> 
> Everybody's Golf 6 _(I will treat this as a PSVita game and not a multiplat because it was originally released as a PSVita exclusive, it was ported to the PS3 a year later)_
> KillZone: Mercenary
> ...


Yes, 11 of those games are Mario games, but if you look at

Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon: I'm not really sure what this classifies as honestly, but it's definitely not the same genre as the others.
Mario & Luigi: Dream Team: RPG game with neat mechanics
Mario Kart 7: Kart racer
Mario Party: Island Tour: Party game
Mario Tenis Open: semi-sports game
Mario & Sonic: Minigame collection
New Super Mario Bros.: 2D Platformer
Super Mario 3D Land: 3D platformer
Yes, all of them use the same characters (they really could use some switching it up honestly) but it's not like they're the same game.
...although I really want a Metroid or F-Zero (I don't really care about Star Fox).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Arras said:


> Yes, 11 of those games are Mario games, but if you look at _(...)_ it's not like they're the same game.


I know, it would be completely crossing the line if they were all within the same genre, but don't you think that sometimes Nintendo's hitting the point of redundancy with these games?

I mean, Luigi's Mansion is its own thing, I can understand that. Mario Kart is Mario Kart, I get that too. Standard Mario is standard Mario, that I understand as well. Mario Party gets a pass because it's a mascot party game, having a mascot is the whole point. Mario Tennis? Mario Golf? I know those are old _"sub-franchises"_, but what's next, Mario Proctologist? It almost seems like Nintendo is worried that they wouldn't be able to launch a brand-new IP, so they slap Mario onto the box and get on with their lives - I mean, he's already been a doctor, an olympian, a soccer player, a painter, might as well give him more jobs, right? 


stanleyopar2000 said:


> But Foxi? can it plai mah pierahted peeSPee ICE "O"s?


Yes, it can play PSP backups via TN-V eCFW, although I don't personally recommend it because it essentially means that you forfeit any and all updates, and that cuts off PS+ benefits which to me are more _"valuable"_ than games I might as well play on my PSP. Each to their own, though.

I see that the competition between the 3DS and the Gamecube in the poll is still as heated as ever - can't say that I'm surprised. We'll see which one of those will take the lead, or maybe an underdog will overtake both?


----------



## Arras (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I know, it would be completely crossing the line if they were all within the same genre, but don't you think that sometimes Nintendo's hitting the point of redundancy with these games?
> 
> I mean, Luigi's Mansion is its own thing, I can understand that. Mario Kart is Mario Kart, I get that too. Standard Mario is standard Mario, that I understand as well. Mario Party gets a pass because it's a mascot party game, having a mascot is the whole point. Mario Tennis? Mario Golf? I know those are old _"sub-franchises"_, but what's next, Mario Proctologist? It almost seems like Nintendo is worried that they wouldn't be able to launch a brand-new IP, so they slap Mario onto the box and get on with their lives - I mean, he's already been a doctor, an olympian, a soccer player, a painter, might as well give him more jobs, right?
> Yes, it can play PSP backups via TN-V eCFW, although I don't personally recommend it because it essentially means that you forfeit any and all updates, and that cuts off PS+ benefits which to me are more _"valuable"_ than games I might as well play on my PSP. Each to their own, though.
> ...


To be fair, they could have just thrown some Mario characters together for Splatoon, considering Sunshine and its ink and water mechanics, but they didn't do that... and honestly I hope they keep it that way. While I don't particularly mind Mario characters, they might as well come up with some new characters if they're going to make a game in a genre they haven't done before. Don't get me wrong, I do agree the amount of Mario games is a bit ridiculous.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Arras said:


> To be fair, they could have just thrown some Mario characters together for Splatoon, considering Sunshine and its ink and water mechanics, but they didn't do that... and honestly I hope they keep it that way. While I don't particularly mind Mario characters, they might as well come up with some new characters if they're going to make a game in a genre they haven't done before. Don't get me wrong, I do agree the amount of Mario games is a bit ridiculous.


...now that you've mentioned it, that game would work great with F.L.U.D.D, that would _*actually*_ make sense. It'd be like a multiplayer tie-in with Sunshine. Nintendo's a bunch of morons. _;O;_


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> ...now that you've mentioned it, that game would work great with F.L.U.D.D, that would _*actually*_ make sense. It'd be like a multiplayer tie-in with Sunshine. *Nintendo's a bunch of morons. ;O;*


 
Tell us something we don't know ;O;O;O;

I really do wish they'd give Mario a rest, there are hundreds (I think the official number is 180 something, but I'm not quite sure anymore) of games featuring Mario as a playable or prominent character. Like...I get that he's the Nin10doh mascot and all, but goddamn give some of the other IPs a chance. As Fuxi mentions, Metroid needs a new game


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## Ryukouki (Jun 21, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Tell us something we don't know ;O;O;O;
> 
> I really do wish they'd give Mario a rest, there are hundreds (I think the official number is 180 something, but I'm not quite sure anymore) of games featuring Mario as a playable or prominent character. Like...I get that he's the Nin10doh mascot and all, but goddamn give some of the other IPs a chance. As Fuxi mentions, Metroid needs a new game


 

Metroid Other M 2 pls!! ;_;


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Metroid Other M 2 pls!! ;_;


I absolutely would not mind that. The storyline was handled so awkwardly that you'd think it was made by a creature with no opposing thumbs, but the gameplay was solid otherwise - it was a seamless blend of FPP and pseudo-2D a dose of exploration. I get the _"hate"_ the game gets, but it wasn't as bad as people make it out to be - I definitely enjoyed it.

Speaking of Other M...


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Yes, yes... succumb to the dark side, cross the threshold from Nintendolandia to the glorious PlayStation empire...








Hehehehehehe.


Edit: I too loved Other M, yeah the cut scenes where about 2 hours too long each... but the game as you say was solid and I enjoyed that part of it. (If too long cut scenes can make a good game bad than a lot of other games would be thrown into that pile.) 

This is pure comedy but it did make me laugh.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> This is pure comedy but it did make me laugh.


Love me some Zero Punctuation.


----------



## Arras (Jun 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I absolutely would not mind that. The storyline was handled so awkwardly that you'd think it was made by a creature with no opposing thumbs, but the gameplay was solid otherwise - it was a seamless blend of FPP and pseudo-2D a dose of exploration. I get the _"hate"_ the game gets, but it wasn't as bad as people make it out to be - I definitely enjoyed it.
> 
> Speaking of Other M...



My main issue with the game was the fact that you had to become a sitting duck in order to go into first person mode. It was acceptable for looking around, but if you wanted to blast an enemy with missiles, you had to stand still. Adding a button to switch or something and being able to move in first person would make it so much better. Also, the point&click "spot the tiny thing" sections were retarded. I had to use a guide to get past the first interactive part of the game (not counting the tutorial).
And yeah the story was shit. My main issue is that it didn't really... feel much like a Metroid game, all things considered. Apart from the story it was a good game, but it wasn't a good Metroid game.


----------



## ComeTurismO (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 -- Please choose the Nintendo GameCube next. Peasel!


----------



## ViDeOmAnCiNi (Jun 22, 2014)

Failed console. 8.3M units in 2.5 years for a *Sony* console.  Fail. The PSP sold only 7K less units last month that the PSV.  That's a sad statistic.

Even the name is a bad. Always made me think of this: 

Maybe if this console grows up someday it will catch the Sega GameGear in console sales numbers? ;-)

-Vm


----------



## grossaffe (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I absolutely would not mind that. The storyline was handled so awkwardly that you'd think it was made by a creature with no opposing thumbs, but the gameplay was solid otherwise - it was a seamless blend of FPP and pseudo-2D a dose of exploration. I get the _"hate"_ the game gets, but it wasn't as bad as people make it out to be - I definitely enjoyed it.


I... agree with Foxi about a game?  A Nintendo game, no less?  The story-telling wasn't the greatest (my biggest problem was in the beginning when she just kept droning on about "the baby"), but gameplay-wise, I thought it was pretty solid.  It had a lot of the classic metroid feel (although there could've been more non-linear exploration) with a bit more action showing Samus has more combat skills than just an arm canon and Varia Suit.  If it were done as a new IP instead of Metroid, I think people would have appreciated it a lot more.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Arras said:


> My main issue with the game was the fact that you had to become a sitting duck in order to go into first person mode. It was acceptable for looking around, but if you wanted to blast an enemy with missiles, you had to stand still. Adding a button to switch or something and being able to move in first person would make it so much better. Also, the point&click "spot the tiny thing" sections were retarded. I had to use a guide to get past the first interactive part of the game (not counting the tutorial). And yeah the story was shit. My main issue is that it didn't really... feel much like a Metroid game, all things considered. Apart from the story it was a good game, but it wasn't a good Metroid game.


It had the makings of a good story, it just needed a more refined writer. As for the FPP sections, I think the problem with the game was that it felt like it was designed specifically to be playable with just the WiiMote, as if the Nunchuck wasn't a viable option. If the control scheme focused on a WiiMote+Nunchuck combination instead, FPP sections could be as _"mobile"_ as ever. Then again, I think they were going for that classic D-pad control scheme. As for the _"spot the tiny things"_ elements, that really never bothered me, it was exactly like shooting at switches and doors in previous Metroid games. I don't think it was necessarily a bad Metroid game, it was actually kinda nice to see Samus's softer side, get to experience what made her who she was, catch up with characters from her past and so on. The writing just needed more polish... As a game though, it played just about right for me - I liked it.


grossaffe said:


> I... agree with Foxi about a game? A Nintendo game, no less? The story-telling wasn't the greatest (my biggest problem was in the beginning when she just kept droning on about "the baby"), but gameplay-wise, I thought it was pretty solid. It had a lot of the classic metroid feel (although there could've been more non-linear exploration) with a bit more action showing Samus has more combat skills than just an arm canon and Varia Suit. If it were done as a new IP instead of Metroid, I think people would have appreciated it a lot more.


Yeah, I know - shocking! 

Again, I liked it the way it was. I think it represented both the 2D and the 3D Metroids just fine, and since the gameplay was not faulty _(aside from the aforementioned FPP sections)_, I don't see why it would have to be a new IP.


ComeTurismO said:


> Foxi4 -- Please choose the Nintendo GameCube next. Peasel!


That's not up to me - only you guys can make it happen.


----------



## Chris_Highwind (Jun 22, 2014)

At this point, I'm hoping that either Sony adds something to the Vita that benefits those with no intentions of getting a PS4 or abandons it entirely so the homebrew scene can step in.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Jun 22, 2014)

ComeTurismO said:


> Foxi4 -- Please choose the Nintendo GameCube next. Peasel!


 

ew no.

Might as well buy a Wii at this point.





Chris_Highwind said:


> At this point, I'm hoping that either Sony adds something to the Vita that benefits those with no intentions of getting a PS4 or abandons it entirely so the homebrew scene can step in.


 
Why would you not want to buy the best console of the next generation?


----------



## xwatchmanx (Jun 22, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ew no.
> 
> Might as well buy a Wii at this point.


Maybe, but it's nice to be able to boot your GameCube games just by pressing the power button, rather than needing to boot up the Wii OS, and keeping a sensor bar and Wiimote close by to select GameCube mode. Plus there's the Game Boy Player, if you're into that sort of thing (I am, because it makes it easier to play Game Boy games with friends, instead of leaning over one's shoulder).

The only real benefits of the GameCube experience on the Wii besides one less system are being able to boot the system wirelessly and more affordable/accessible component cables.

I have a Wii U, and the only reason I keep my Wii hooked up is so I can play appropriate games with the GameCube controller, instead of the god awful classic controller (id est, Smash). I'll probably pack away my Wii if those PDP GameCube-styled classic controllers are any good.


----------



## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Maybe, but it's nice to be able to boot your GameCube games just by pressing the power button, rather than needing to boot up the Wii OS, and keeping a sensor bar and Wiimote close by to select GameCube mode.


Because using a classic controller to do that is completely impossible.
Also, I assume you don't have this version which is way comfy to play with.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Because using a classic controller to do that is completely impossible.


Because plugging a classic controller into a wiimote to boot the Wii and then manually boot the game that requires a GameCube controller to play is so much more hassle free.


XrosBlader821 said:


> Also, I assume you don't have this version which is way comfy to play with.


As a matter of fact, that's the only one I've ever owned (I've never owned this one). It's great for games that use use the dpad and buttons, but the control stick placement is just god awful for 3D games. I've never used a controller with such uncomfy and unnatural-feeling stick placement[/quote]


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Because hooking up a classic controller into a wiimote to boot the Wii and then manually boot the game that requires a GameCube controller to play is so much more hassle free.


It actually is. Especiall if the Sun bights on the sensor bar making it unusable.



> As a matter of fact, that's the only one I've ever owned (I've never owned this one). It's great for games that use use the dpad and buttons, but the control stick placement is just god awful for 3D games. I've never used a controller with such uncomfy and unnatural-feeling stick placement


The Control Sticks are placed exactly where the Control Sticks are placed on a Dualshock controller.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> The Control Sticks are placed exactly where the Control Sticks are placed on a Dualshock controller.


Which is bad. It took me a _loooong_ time to get used to Dual Shock, it really did.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Which is bad. It took me a _loooong_ time to get used to Dual Shock, it really did.


 
I dunno maybe it's just me growing up with a Playstation.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I dunno maybe it's just me growing up with a Playstation.


It probably is. To me, the priority placement on a controller is _"thumbs upwards"_, so the left analog _"should"_ be where the D-Pad is, the analog stick is the primary input these days. It's the other way around on the right side - the function buttons are primary, so they should take priority. This is why I kinda dislike the Dual Shock as well as the Wii U controllers, I don't think they're designed in an ergonomical way. I think the Xbox and the Gamecube controllers are better in this regard.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It probably is. To me, the priority placement on a controller is _"thumbs upwards"_, so the left analog _"should"_ be where the D-Pad is, the analog stick is the primary input these days. It's the other way around on the right side - the function buttons are primary, so they should take priority. This is why I kinda dislike the Dual Shock as well as the Wii U controllers, I don't think they're designed in an ergonomical way. I think the Xbox and the Gamecube controllers are better in this regard.


 
Ironically enough I like the Wii U controller as well.
Well I like the Xbox Controller too but I don't like the Gamecube controller at all. In fact this is my least favorite controller.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Ironically enough I like the Wii U controller as well. Well I like the Xbox Controller too but I don't like the Gamecube controller at all. In fact this is my least favorite controller.


It's entirely a matter of taste, yeah. From the perspective of time, the only things I dislike about the Gamecube controller are the lack of a Z2 button, clickable analog sticks and the shape of the function buttons - other than that it's pretty ideal.


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## BlackWizzard17 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I dunno maybe it's just me growing up with a Playstation.


 
Growing up with a dual shock 1 but mostly 2 has made me a custom to it too. 





Foxi4 said:


> It probably is. To me, the priority placement on a controller is _"thumbs upwards"_, so the left analog _"should"_ be where the D-Pad is, the analog stick is the primary input these days. It's the other way around on the right side - the function buttons are primary, so they should take priority. This is why I kinda dislike the Dual Shock as well as the Wii U controllers, I don't think they're designed in an ergonomical way. I think the Xbox and the Gamecube controllers are better in this regard.


One thing I liked about the gamecube controller is that the stick placement felt very comfortable for many action and adventure games especially games like sonic hero's, Mario Sunshine, and other titles. One thing I didn't like about the gamecube controller and Xbox controller were that the d-pad and face buttons were diagonal so it didn't feel as good when playing a fighting game to me. Loved the gamecube controller, I didn't like the Xbox 360 because it was pretty big for my hand. But Sony definitely improve the dual shock scene with the ps4 controller just amazing.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

BlackWizzard17 said:


> Growing up with a dual shock 1 but mostly 2 has made me a custom to it too.
> One thing I liked about the gamecube controller is that the stick placement felt very comfortable for many action and adventure games especially games like sonic hero's, Mario Sunshine, and other titles. One thing I didn't like about the gamecube controller and Xbox controller were that the d-pad and face buttons were diagonal so it didn't feel as good when playing a fighting game to me. Loved the gamecube controller, I didn't like the Xbox 360 because it was pretty big for my hand. But Sony definitely improve the dual shock scene with the ps4 controller just amazing.


It's true, some controller setups are more comfortable for some genres and less for others. For instance, I don't mind the PSVita setup, but that's because of the games I play on it, mostly 2D stuff and fighters, the D-Pad is comfortable and excellent for that.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> It actually is.


You honestly find it less of a hassle to need to pull out _three_ separate controllers to play GameCube games, when two of them are needed _just_ to boot up the damn game and need to be fitted together first? Okay, then.


XrosBlader821 said:


> Especiall if the Sun bights on the sensor bar making it unusable.


I've never had this issue in any of the three abodes I've kept my Wii, and all of them were near windows. I didn't even know that could cause interference.


XrosBlader821 said:


> The Control Sticks are placed exactly where the Control Sticks are placed on a Dualshock controller.


 
Not quite. They're in the same general position, but testing them side by side, I find that the dualshock's analog sticks are much closer to where I naturally rest my thumbs on such a setup, whereas with the classic controller pro, my thumbs have to sort of contort to rest on them properly. Additionally, for some reason, the analogs on the classic controller pro feel unwieldy and hard to move, as if they're too tall. I've discussed and tested this with a friend of mine who primarily games on PS3, and he came to the same conclusion. I can't imagine using the classic controller pro to play dual-stick-heavy games.





Foxi4 said:


> Which is bad. It took me a _loooong_ time to get used to Dual Shock, it really did.


I definitely prefer the layout of the 360 and Wii U pro controller, but I really don't think the Dualshock's placement is particularly bad. If anything, it just has different strengths, and I think it has the comfiest dpad for 2D games. The 360 controller is certainly better for shooters, though.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> I definitely prefer the layout of the 360 and Wii U pro controller, but I really don't think the Dualshock's placement is particularly bad. If anything, it just has different strengths, and I think it has the comfiest dpad for 2D games. The 360 controller is certainly better for shooters, though.


I absolutely hate the Dual Shock D-Pad - whoever came up with sectioned D-Pads should be fired, they cause my thumbs infinite suffering. As for the analog placement, it does have its strengths, but on a system where most of the games are in a 3D perspective with the analog stick being the primary input method, it's odd to put the analog stick in a place where you have to keep your thumb sideways to use it at all times - that's less than ideal and in my opinion uncomfortable and hard to get used to.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> You honestly find it less of a hassle to need to pull out _three_ separate controllers to play GameCube games, when two of them are needed _just_ to boot up the damn game and need to be fitted together first? Okay, then.


 
I don't need to pull out anything. The Wii mote is out anyway and the Gamecube controllers are always hooked up too.
Since I play play most of my games, that support the classic controller, with a classic controller it is always hooked up to the wii mote too. 
So really all I do is press power on the Wii, press A on the Wii Mote to actually turn the wii mote on (so far the usual routine you would do anyway) and then switch to the classic controller and have an easier time navigating through the menus. 
When done with that I simply put the wii Mote aside and grab the Gamecube controller.
I wonder why they didn't make it compatible with nunchucks too. 



xwatchmanx said:


> Not quite. They're in the same general position, but testing them side by side, I find that the dualshock's analog sticks are much closer to where I naturally rest my thumbs on such a setup, whereas with the classic controller pro, my thumbs have to sort of contort to rest on them properly. Additionally, for some reason, the analogs on the classic controller pro feel unwieldy and hard to move, as if they're too tall. I've discussed and tested this with a friend of mine who primarily games on PS3, and he came to the same conclusion. I can't imagine using the classic controller pro to play dual-stick-heavy games.


They are kinda slower to move but that's about it. Nothing that would really break the gaming experience. Xenoblade Chronicles for example is terrible when playing without the Classic Controller. I think this is also the game that makes you regret for not having the Classic Controller.


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It probably is. To me, the priority placement on a controller is _"thumbs upwards"_, so the left analog _"should"_ be where the D-Pad is, the analog stick is the primary input these days. It's the other way around on the right side - the function buttons are primary, so they should take priority. This is why I kinda dislike the Dual Shock as well as the Wii U controllers, I don't think they're designed in an ergonomical way. I think the Xbox and the Gamecube controllers are better in this regard.


 
wrong. Nowadays both sticks are primary. But I might have argued that it would always be inane to have two identical inputs on a controller not be symmetrical, even if one of them was primary but the other not. (if a controller had two dpads for instance, or two sets of face buttons mich like Steamboy. then they ought to be on the same row)


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

zeello said:


> wrong. Nowadays both sticks are primary. But I might have argued that it would always be inane to have two identical inputs on a controller not be symmetrical, even if one of them was primary but the other not. (if a controller had two dpads for instance, or two sets of face buttons mich like Steamboy. then they ought to be on the same row)


...why would the right stick be primary if it's only ever used to control the camera in 9 out of 10 3D games? The function buttons take priority in my opinion.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Why would you not want to buy the best console of the next generation?


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

shoulder buttons/triggers are buttons that perform functions; they are "function buttons"

in 9 out of 10 games the right stick is invariably used to point a firearm or long range weapon, meaning the button to fire said weapon is without fail a shoulder/trugger. In effect 9 out of 10 games are in fact shooters,and therefore the control sticks are primary.

That said. "only ever used to control the camera" Because camera is so unimportant right? Seeing the game is optional.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> _*Snip!*_


I know it hurts so bad, but I'm afraid the PS4 _is_ shaping up to be the best console this generation. It's the best marriage of a gaming-oriented feature set, specs and an approachable price point - you can't argue with that. Unless some major shift happens in the nearby future, the PS4 will continue to lead the pack.


zeello said:


> shoulder buttons/triggers are buttons that perform functions; they are "function buttons"
> 
> in 9 out of 10 games the right stick is invariably used to point a firearm or long range weapon, meaning the button to fire said weapon is without fail a shoulder/trugger. In effect 9 out of 10 games are in fact shooters,and therefore the control sticks are primary.
> 
> ...


You're talking strictly about FPP games - what about all the TPP games around? In those, you only adjust the camera occasionally wheras the function buttons are required all the time.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

Seems all anyone cares about is a game running in 1080p......big fu*king whoopy doo


Again when i bought my Vita i didn't realize i was buying a peripheral for a system i don't WANT or NEED at all.......


#THEREISNONEXTGEN


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> Seems all anyone cares about is a game running in 1080p......big fu*king whoopy doo Again when i bought my Vita i didn't realize i was buying a peripheral for a system i don't WANT or NEED at all....... #THEREISNONEXTGEN


As JoostinOnline would say, _"you're absolutely right, there is no next gen - the PS4, Xbox One and Wii U are current gen consoles"_, but hey. And no, not everyone cares about running games in 1080p _(which neither the Xbox One nor the PS4 do very often. That said, the PS4 is still a hell of a lot better in terms of native resolution)_, but people have a tendency to, y'know, run any games at all - those things the PS4 gets and some other systems don't.


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## Dork (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I absolutely hate the Dual Shock D-Pad - whoever came up with sectioned D-Pads should be fired, *they cause my thumbs infinite suffering.*


lel

DualShock D-Pad is pretty alright. Like you said with the Vita it's great for fighters and 2D platformers.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> Seems all anyone cares about is a game running in 1080p......big fu*king whoopy doo
> 
> 
> Again when i bought my Vita i didn't realize i was buying a peripheral for a system i don't WANT or NEED at all.......
> ...


Better hardware doesn't necesserily mean that the only thing that is going to improve is graphics.
Better Consoles also mean more potential for better, bigger games with more features and way's to play.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> lel DualShock D-Pad is pretty alright. Like you said with the Vita it's great for fighters and 2D platformers.


To me it feels like playing with a cracked, sharp bathroom tile - it's less than ideal and really strains my thumbs. The PSVita's D-Pad on the other hand... that I could rub against all day long, it's exquisite. I'll never understand why it didn't replace the sectioned D-Pad on the Dual Shock.


XrosBlader821 said:


> Better hardware doesn't necesserily mean that the only thing that is going to improve is graphics. Better Consoles also mean more potential for better, bigger games with more features and way's to play.


People always cry bloody murder when the conversation shifts to hardware performance and specs, we always hear _"it's the gameplay that matters, rararara"_, but give them a really old system that had the calculating prowess of a pocket calculator and they'll hurl.

Truth of the matter is that a good console provides a balance between the price point and the specs - it's the hardware that makes software alive, and when it becomes a limitation, you have a problem. Remember, a painting is a work of art, but you can only paint as big and complex of a painting as big your canvas is and as numerous your brushes and paints are. One is intrinsicly connected to the other, it's a truth you can't refute - the specs standard has to be _"adecquate"_ for the generation it represents.


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## Mira (Jun 22, 2014)

one thing about the vita screen that piss me off is that i really would like to be able to use a stylus like the 3ds


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You're talking strictly about FPP games - what about all the TPP games around?



did I say I was talking about first person? I was talking about all games


> In those, you only adjust the camera occasionally wheras the function buttons are required all the time.


Hell, in Halo games you only adjust the camera occasionally. Shooting enemies is supplememtary to the experience. Everyone knows that face buttons are primary. /sarcasm

Some games have manual camera meaning they in effect require nonstop use of the camera stick.

But if a game has shooting in it then its arguably no different. If at some point during a "TPP" you aim/fire weapons (no wai!! didnt see that one coming) then control stick becomes primary during those bouts. Meaning that face buttons are secondary during those bouts assuming they are used at all. Not to mention the button to fire said weapon is PROBABLY a shoulder or trigger, not a face button. (and we should hopefully agree to discount any exceptions to that last part) Therefore how did you decide whether face buttons or control stick is primary "in general"? What does it mean specifically?

Look at it this way:

if you are an F1 driver, you want steering in the primary place. If you are not an F1 racer, then it doesn't matter quite to the same extent where steering is. But does that mean steering and dashboard radio in your car should be switched? Well why are all cars using the same layout asx F1 cars? Is this not absurd? I am not an F1 driver, get with the program car makers!

if you want a comfortable gaming chair for long sessions, does that mean you should sit in a less comfortable chair when playing casually?

That's the way I see it.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Mira said:


> one thing about the vita screen that piss me off is that i really would like to be able to use a stylus like the 3ds


Well, you can, you just need a capacitive screen stylus. I don't know _why_ you'd want that considering the fact that the games are designed to be played with thumbs when the touchscreen is used plus the form factor isn't exactly designed for using the handheld with just one hand and a stylus, but if you _want to_, you can.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 22, 2014)

Mira said:


> one thing about the vita screen that piss me off is that i really would like to be able to use a stylus like the 3ds


 
There are tons of capacitive screen styluses out there that would work for the Vita. They're cheap as hell, too.

I got a personalized pen from a convention thing from my dad's work that has a laser pointer, LED light, and a capacitive stylus and it works pretty well when you can't be assed to touch a screen.

EDIT: FOXI I SWEAR TO GOD YOU LIKE MONITOR ME AND THEN POST SECONDS BEFORE I DO JUST TO NINJA ME YOU FUCK


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> To me it feels like playing with a cracked, sharp bathroom tile - it's less than ideal and really strains my thumbs. The PSVita's D-Pad on the other hand... that I could rub against all day long, it's exquisite. I'll never understand why it didn't replace the sectioned D-Pad on the Dual Shock.
> People always cry bloody murder when the conversation shifts to hardware performance and specs, we always hear _"it's the gameplay that matters, rararara"_, but give them a really old system that had the calculating prowess of a pocket calculator and they'll hurl.
> 
> Truth of the matter is that a good console provides a balance between the price point and the specs - it's the hardware that makes software alive, and when it becomes a limitation, you have a problem. Remember, a painting is a work of art, but you can only paint as big and complex of a painting as big your canvas is and as numerous your brushes and paints are. One is intrinsicly connected to the other, it's a truth you can't refute - the specs standard has to be _"adecquate"_ for the generation it represents.


 
games are meant to look the same nowadays.Better graphics are a liability. Note how we still have 30 fps despite the improved hardware. So its not really an improvement its just a more expensive way to be worse.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

zeello said:


> did I say I was talking about first person? I was talking about all games


Well, you don't adjust the camera _all the time_ in _all games_, it's only a requirement in FPP's. In TPP's, sports games, racing games, fighting games etc. you do it sporadically, if at all.


> Hell, in Halo games you only adjust the camera occasionally. Shooting enemies is supplememtary to the experience. Everyone knows that face buttons are primary. /sarcasm


Good job providing an FPP example.


> Some games have manual camera meaning they in effect require nonstop use of the camera stick.


No, that means you have the option to adjust it whenever you want - that doesn't in any way imply doing it all the time.


> But if a game has shooting in it then its arguably np different. If at some point during a "TPP" you aim/fire weapons (no wai!! didnt see that one coming) then control stick becomes primary during those bouts. Meaning that face buttons are either secondary during those bouts. Not to mention the button to fre said weapon is PROBABLY a shoulder or trigger, not a face button. (and we should hopefully agree to discount any exceptions to that last part) Therefore how did you decide whether face buttons or control stick is primary "in general"? What does it mean specifically?


Sure. And jumping, crouching, hiding behind cover etc. are all covered by the _function buttons_, which is why they take priority.


> Look at it this way: if you are an F1 driver, you want steering in the primary place. If you are not an F1 racer, then it doesn't matter quite to the same extent where steering is. But does that mean steering and dashboard radio in your car should be switched? Well why are all cars using the same layout asx F1 cars? Is this not absurd? I am not an F1 driver, get with the program car makers!


The steering wheel is the _left_ analog stick, not the right one. You're arguing that the gear stick should be in place of the car radio because you sporadically shift gears when driving.


> if you want a comfortable gaming chair for long sessions, does that mean you should sit in a less comfortable chair when playing casually? That's the way I see it.


I don't see the point you're making here. At all. Elaborate.




zeello said:


> games are meant to look the same nowadays.Better graphics are a liability. Note how we still have 30 fps despite the improved hardware. So its not really an improvement its just a more expensive way to be worse.


_"30 FPS"_ with improved _"everything else"_, from geometry complexity through texture size to draw distance. Please, don't even draw the _"current gen consoles are not an improvement over last gen ones"_ card, that's ridiculous.


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

if its a tpp then camera is primary. That's a fact. Furthermore all tpp's are shooters.

manual camera is not optional. Its only "optional" or "occasional" if you can camera control in a game with automatic camera (e.g. Mario 64) or a camera that follows you. (e.g. Monster Hunter) Many games have camera follow you but they nonetheless have shooting mechanics or sequences and more perversely the automatic camera is disabled during these sequences (e.g. zoom button) which just goes to prove my point.


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## grossaffe (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> They are kinda slower to move but that's about it. Nothing that would really break the gaming experience. Xenoblade Chronicles for example is terrible when playing without the Classic Controller. I think this is also the game that makes you regret for not having the Classic Controller.


Disagree.  I prefer Xenoblade with Wiimote and Nunchuck.  Both control methods can be used to move the character and control the camera simultaneously, so that's a wash.  But the Classic Controller can't move the character at the same time as selecting an art as they are both mapped to controls for the left thumb, while the Nunchuck has art-selection on the right thumb.  The Classic Controller can move the camera and select an art simultaneously, but I don't find that to be all that important in the heat of battle.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

zeello said:


> if its a tpp then camera is primary. That's a fact. Furthermore all tpp's are shooters.
> 
> manual camera is not optional. Its only "optional" or "occasional" if you can camera control in a game with automatic camera (e.g. Mario 64) or a camera that follows you. (e.g. Monster Hunter) Many games have camera follow you but they nonetheless have shooting mechanics or sequences and more perversely the automatic camera is disabled during these sequences (e.g. zoom button) which just goes to prove my point.


You can't make a controller that supports all gaming styles at once, otherwise you'd have to put a steering wheel and a joystick onto it for good measure. You adjust the controller to work well with the majority of games, and for that, the left stick, the function buttons and the triggers are your primary input methods. _Most_ games aside from FPP ones do not require the constant manipulation of the camera and some don't require it at all - you're talking about isolated cases that require both analog sticks at once. Then again, we're just arguing over personal preference here, everybody has a different idea about ergonomics.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> Disagree. I prefer Xenoblade with Wiimote and Nunchuck. Both control methods can be used to move the character and control the camera simultaneously, so that's a wash. But the Classic Controller can't move the character at the same time as selecting an art as they are both mapped to controls for the left thumb, while the Nunchuck has art-selection on the right thumb. The Classic Controller can move the camera and select an art simultaneously, but I don't find that to be all that important in the heat of battle.


 
And I don't find that selecting an art while moving around is so much important too. you loose only 1-2 seconds at best and since they are cooldown based you usually have your art selected before you even start positioning yourself.


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## grossaffe (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> And I don't find that selecting an art while moving around is so much important too. you loose only 1-2 seconds at best and since they are cooldown based you usually have your art selected before you even start positioning yourself.


I was constantly on the move while selecting arts.  Even with the cooldown, that short delay can be the difference between victory and defeat.  Sometimes you need to get that art off as fast as possible so that it'll recharge in time to save your life.  Regardless, there was nothing that the Wiimote and Nunchuck could not do that I lamented in the game.  Camera control using the c-button and d-pad felt completely natural, so I did not miss the second analog stick.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Better hardware doesn't necesserily mean that the only thing that is going to improve is graphics.
> Better Consoles also mean more potential for better, bigger games with more features and way's to play.


 

The PS4 a "Better Console"???



My LAST GEN PS3 has more features than that......stupid thing cant even rip Audio CD's and garbage like Twitch and Share button?!?!


What a joke really....


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> The PS4 a "Better Console"???  My LAST GEN PS3 has more features than that......stupid thing cant even rip Audio CD's and garbage like Twitch and Share button?!?! What a joke really....


I didn't know that you consider ripping Audio CD's a core function for a console - I do that on PC. That being said, I'm pretty sure MP3/DLNA support is coming via a firmware update at some point in time, and if the drive can support it, perhaps also Audio CD's.

Can't help but wonder what your next complaint is going to be, the lack of casette tape support?


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> I was constantly on the move while selecting arts. Even with the cooldown, that short delay can be the difference between victory and defeat. Sometimes you need to get that art off as fast as possible so that it'll recharge in time to save your life. Regardless, there was nothing that the Wiimote and Nunchuck could not do that I lamented in the game. Camera control using the c-button and d-pad felt completely natural, so I did not miss the second analog stick.


 
The game was too easy for me to really bother me getting as much seconds as possible to turn tables.
I only died in this game if I was underleveled which is my own fault, not the controls or any of that.


Gaming4Ever said:


> The PS4 a "Better Console"???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
What do you need rip audio CD's for? That's the least useful feature I can imagine on a home console.


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## grossaffe (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> The game was too easy for me to really bother me getting as much seconds as possible to turn tables.
> I only died in this game if I was underleveled which is my own fault, not the controls or any of that.


I made a conscious point not to do too many side-quests at a time so as not to level up to the point where the game became easy. I rather enjoyed going into combat against enemies that had me out-leveled and required strategy and quick action to actually defeat.  Did you ever even defeat the four enemies who's levels were over 100?


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> I made a conscious point not to do too many side-quests at a time so as not to level up to the point where the game became easy. I rather enjoyed going into combat against enemies that had me out-leveled and required strategy and quick action to actually defeat. Did you ever even defeat the four enemies who's levels were over 100?


 
I haven't been side questing a lot either. Even if I did they don't over power you too much.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

grossaffe said:


> I made a conscious point not to do too many side-quests at a time so as not to level up to the point where the game became easy. I rather enjoyed going into combat against enemies that had be out-leveled and required strategy and quick action to actually defeat.


I admire your ability to ignore side quests - I'm completely unable to do that. I usually comb the areas for each and evey quest I could possibly complete before advancing the story, not necessarily to level up, rather because I'm a terrible completionist and wouldn't want to miss out on anything in case the quests become unavailable later on for whatever reason.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Can't help but wonder what your next complaint is going to be, the lack of casette tape support?


 

If a 10 year old Console can do that why not a "New Powerful Cheap Current Gen" system that's so amazing hahaha.....Guess with some people its Stupid is as Stupid does 


And no im not calling you Stupid just your $ony love mate


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> If a 10 year old Console can do that why not a "New Powerful Cheap Current Gen" system that's so amazing hahaha.....Guess with some people its Stupid is as Stupid does  And no im not calling you Stupid just your $ony love mate


Alright, then why doesn't the PS3 support VHS or audio casette tapes? Why doesn't the PS2? Is it perhaps that... the format is irrelevant to them? _;O;_

The PS4 needs MP3 and DLNA support right now, Audio CD's I can live without. I don't remember the last time I've used one even on PC, I switched to MP3's a decade ago, and so did the world.


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## grossaffe (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I admire your ability to ignore side quests - I'm completely unable to do that. I usually comb the areas for each and evey quest I could possibly complete before advancing the story, not necessarily to level up, rather because I'm a terrible completionist and wouldn't want to miss out on anything in case the quests become unavailable later on for whatever reason.


Believe me, it wasn't easy for me as I get pretty OCD about them, too.  I started off skipping by because I wanted to get into the story.  And then I did start doing side-quests and found myself over-leveled for a little bit which wasn't as fun as I could breeze through boss fights compared to earlier in the game when I just kept dying at one boss, so I cut back on side-quests for awhile to let the world's enemies catch up to me and give me a proper fight.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> If a 10 year old Console can do that why not a "New Powerful Cheap Current Gen" system that's so amazing hahaha.....Guess with some people its Stupid is as Stupid does
> 
> 
> And no im not calling you Stupid just your $ony love mate


Features become outdated, while new ones become necessary. You scoff at social media features, but they're what people want here and now. Most people buy their music digitally, so why would they need to rip a CD at this point? If you seriously hate the PS4 and Sony because they stole away your ability to rip audio CDs on your game console, well, they probably don't need your sale anyways.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> If a 10 year old Console can do that why not a "New Powerful Cheap Current Gen" system that's so amazing hahaha.....Guess with some people its Stupid is as Stupid does
> 
> 
> And no im not calling you Stupid just your $ony love mate


 
Yeah lets bring out a Console with full Backwards compatibility that allows you to play PS1, 2 & 3 games while keeping all the features and adding new ones.
Welcome to the PS4! The Price tag?  800€! where is you $ony now? 

...

You clearly know what you are talking about.
There are plenty of reasons why features appear and disappear over time.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Yeah lets bring out a Console with full Backwards compatibility that allows you to play PS1, 2 & 3 games while keeping all the features and adding new ones. Welcome to the PS4! The Price tag? 800€! where is you $ony now? ... You clearly know what you are talking about.
> There are plenty of reasons why features appear and disappear over time.


Why complain just about Sony when we can complain about Nintendo just as easily? The Wii U has everything that's required for native Gamecube support aside from the controller ports and a drive that supports miniDiscs - everything's already on the CPU die and could be _easily_ implemented alongside Wii backwards compatibility, why isn't it there? Well, I guess _9 years_ is enough for a feature to become outdated.


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Sure. And jumping, crouching, hiding behind cover etc. are all covered by the _function buttons_, which is why they take priority.


This sentence makes no sense. Shoulders/triggers perform functions, and these functions often include jumping. Crourching is sometimes mapped to dpad or L3/R3. Firing is a function and always !mapped to shoulder/trigger. It stands to reason that if left thumb is being used to get around and right thumb is being used to look around (and in effect also being used to get around) as well as aiming the weapons that makes buttons useful in the first place, then the sticks are primary.




> The steering wheel is the _left_ analog stick, not the right one. You're arguing that the gear stick should be in place of the car radio because you sporadically shift gears when driving.
> I don't see the point you're making here. At all. Elaborate.


You're the one arguing that camera is only something done sporadically. You, not me. Although, by your logic, buttons are used sporadically anyway. Because for example to throw a grenade you just tap the button and 99. percent of the time that button is being unused. And what's more, we already have buttons on the shoulder. You're not giving priority to buttons, sherlock, you're giving priority to EVEN MORE buttons. whereas the camera stick is doing something which is fundamentally both unique and essential in much the same way the left stick is. In fact in modern games the functionality that was once exclusive to left stick is now efectively split up between both sticks. (e.g.,in shooters if you want to turn around and go in the opposite direction. you have to do both parts yourself, the turning around and the actual moving toward the new direction) It floors me that people still act like camera is supplementary but movement is not, when it is part of movement now and has been for a while. Its like I'm talking from gamers in the years 1999 and dual stick shooters are still are quirky exception and not overwhelmingly the norm with all other games/genres copying them blatantly.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Why complain just about Sony when we can complain about Nintendo just as easily? The Wii U has everything that's required for native Gamecube support aside from the controller ports - everything's already on the CPU die and could be _easily_ implemented alongside Wii backwards compatibility, why isn't it there? Well, I guess _9 years_ is enough for a feature to become outdated.


 
The... they.. What?
Are You Sirius?


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

zeello said:


> This sentence makes no sense. Shoulders/triggers perform functions, and these functions often include jumping. Crourching is sometimes mapped to dpad or L3/R3. Firing is a function and always !mapped to shoulder/trigger. It stands to reason that if left thumb is being used to get around and right thumb is being used to look around (and in effect also being used to get around) as well as aiming the weapons that makes buttons useful in the first place, then the sticks are primary.


Remind me of the last game that had _jumping_ mapped to the triggers, I don't seem to recall any. Triggers are just that - triggers. They're mostly for shooting in FPP/TPP, accelerating/breaking in racing games or blocking/throwing in fighting games. I can't think of a _single_ title that would have jump mapped to the triggers - even Call of Duty has it mapped to X/A buttons. Clickable triggers are often used for crouching and running, yes, but there's a number of things the character might do other than that.


> You're the one arguing that camera is only something done sporadically. You, not me. Although, by your logic, buttons are used sporadically anyway. Because for example to throw a grenade you just tap the button and 99. percent of the time that button is being unused. And what's more, we already have buttons on the shoulder. You're not giving priority to buttons, sherlock, you're giving priority to EVEN MORE buttons. whereas the camera stick is doing something which is fundamentally both unique and essential in much the same way the left stick is. In fact in modern games the functionality that was once exclusive to left stick is now efectively split up between both sticks. (e.g.,in shooters if you want to turn around and go in the opposite direction. you have to do both parts yourself, the turning around and the actual moving toward the new direction) It floors me that people still act like camera is supplementary but movement is not, when it is part of movement now and has been for a while. Its like I'm talking from gamers in the years 1999 and dual stick shooters are still are quirky exception and not overwhelmingly the norm with all other games/genres copying them blatantly.


I already said that this is a matter of preference and the way you personally treat ergonomics - things that are obvious to me may not necessarily be obvious to you and vice-versa. To me, function buttons take priority over the right analog stick which in my case stays dormant most of the time unless I need to adjust the camera with the exception of FPP games which rarely use function buttons to begin with.


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see the point you're making here. At all. Elaborate.


 
It is repeating the same point as my F1 example. I'm saying that a comfortable chair is strictly more comfortable than a chair that is less comfortable. There is no such thing as a "primary chair for when a comfortable chair isnt needed" yet that is basically what you're trying to argue in regards to stick placement.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> The... they.. What? Are You Sirius?


Of course I'm serious. Nintendo used a drive that doesn't support minidiscs and cheaped out on controller ports _(although just using the Wii U controller would be an option too in the sandbox, it's just that Nintendo's sandboxes are incredibly barebones and literally change one console into another)_, but all the necessary hardware is on the CPU die - I've discussed this before. There isn't anything standing in the way of native Gamecube support on the Wii U, hence Nintendont.




zeello said:


> It is repeating the same point as my F1 example. I'm saying that a comfortable chair is strictly more comfortable than a chair that is less comfortable. There is no such thing as a "primary chair for when a comfortable chair isnt needed" yet that is basically what you're trying to argue in regards to stick placement.


I would sooner compare the situation to arm rests - you have them on your armchair for comfort, but I don't see any on a driver's seat - I guess a driver's arms don't need the support... or maybe they'd just be in the way and would cause the seat to be counter-productive and stand in the way of driving the car properly - that's also an option.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

Nathan Drake said:


> If you seriously hate the PS4 and Sony because they stole away your ability to rip audio CDs on your game console, well, they probably don't need your sale anyways.


 

Yup ill keep my money and spend it on something that actually matters like GAMES for systems i actually play





XrosBlader821 said:


> There are plenty of reasons why features appear and disappear over time.


 

Seems like the $ony motto lately.....




Foxi4 said:


> Why complain just about Sony when we can complain about Nintendo just as easily? The Wii U has everything that's required for native Gamecube support aside from the controller ports - everything's already on the CPU die and could be _easily_ implemented alongside Wii backwards compatibility, why isn't it there? Well, I guess _9 years_ is enough for a feature to become outdated.


 

Whoa whoa $ony4....i mean Foxi4 keep your hate for Nin10doh to yourself and keep trying to convince the rest of GBATemp of those "Features" which make the PS4 a "Game" system....


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> Whoa whoa $ony4....i mean Foxi4 keep your hate for Nin10doh to yourself and keep trying to convince the rest of GBATemp of those "Features" which make the PS4 a "Game" system....


I see that I stepped on your toe here - someone's problems are only nice to poke fun at when they can't be applied to yourself. Let's laugh at Sony when Nintendo does the same thing, I see what you did there _(not that Nintendo has ever supported any multimedia format at all on their home consoles, but that's besides the point)_.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> Yup ill keep my money and spend it on something that actually matters like GAMES for systems i actually play
> Seems like the $ony motto lately.....
> Whoa whoa $ony4....i mean Foxi4 keep your hate for Nin10doh to yourself and keep trying to convince the rest of GBATemp of those "Features" which make the PS4 a "Game" system....


I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or stupid. If you're trolling, bravo. If you're just stupid, I am so, so sorry.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I see that I stepped on your toe here - someone's problems are only nice to poke fun at when they can't be applied to yourself. Let's laugh at Sony when Nintendo does the same thing, I see what you did there _(not that Nintendo has ever supported any multimedia format at all on their home consoles, but that's besides the point)_.


 

I got 99 problems and your love for $ony ain't one.........


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## ComeTurismO (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It had the makings of a good story, it just needed a more refined writer. As for the FPP sections, I think the problem with the game was that it felt like it was designed specifically to be playable with just the WiiMote, as if the Nunchuck wasn't a viable option. If the control scheme focused on a WiiMote+Nunchuck combination instead, FPP sections could be as _"mobile"_ as ever. Then again, I think they were going for that classic D-pad control scheme. As for the _"spot the tiny things"_ elements, that really never bothered me, it was exactly like shooting at switches and doors in previous Metroid games. I don't think it was necessarily a bad Metroid game, it was actually kinda nice to see Samus's softer side, get to experience what made her who she was, catch up with characters from her past and so on. The writing just needed more polish... As a game though, it played just about right for me - I liked it.
> Yeah, I know - shocking!
> 
> Again, I liked it the way it was. I think it represented both the 2D and the 3D Metroids just fine, and since the gameplay was not faulty _(aside from the aforementioned FPP sections)_, I don't see why it would have to be a new IP.
> That's not up to me - only you guys can make it happen.


 
*NO.* You have to cheat. GameCube is life.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I don't need to pull out anything. The Wii mote is out anyway and the Gamecube controllers are always hooked up too.


Then that's the difference between us. I have ten different consoles hooked up to my entertainment center, so I usually don't keep any controllers out on my coffee table. I keep them in the dedicated shelf I have for them. I keep the wiimotes in the coffee table drawer (because they're the only ones that fit), and I sometimes keep a controller for the game I know I'm currently playing out, but that's it.


XrosBlader821 said:


> They are kinda slower to move but that's about it. Nothing that would really break the gaming experience. Xenoblade Chronicles for example is terrible when playing without the Classic Controller. I think this is also the game that makes you regret for not having the Classic Controller.


 
For me they're borderline crippling. I can't even begin to guess how many times I turned the wrong way or too slowly in Sonic Colors, or attacked in the wrong direction in Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Project M.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 22, 2014)

Nathan Drake said:


> I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or stupid. If you're trolling, bravo. If you're just stupid, I am so, so sorry.


 

Im just trying to convince myself why my $300 PS4 peripheral is worth it.....i have invested more than that into my Vita and now it seems like money thrown into the wind......


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Of course I'm serious. Nintendo used a drive that doesn't support minidiscs and cheaped out on controller ports _(although just using the Wii U controller would be an option too in the sandbox, it's just that Nintendo's sandboxes are incredibly barebones and literally change one console into another)_, but all the necessary hardware is on the CPU die - I've discussed this before. There isn't anything standing in the way of native Gamecube support on the Wii U, hence Nintendont


 
I'm left speechless.
God I am really starting to develop a hate against that company every time they do something stupid as that.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> I got 99 problems and your love for $ony ain't one.........


So I'm a Sony fanboy now because over the years I've said that the Wii should supported DVD's _(because it has a DVD drive)_ but doesn't because Nintendo are cheapskates and the Wii U should support BluRay _(because it had a BluRay drive) _and Gamecube discs but doesn't because again, Nintendo are cheapskates. It's perfectly fine to rag on about no Audio CD support on a Sony console, but ragging on no Audio CD support on any Nintendo console in the history of ever is a no-no. Duly noted.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The Wii U has everything that's required for native Gamecube support aside from the controller ports a drive that supports miniDiscs - everything's already on the CPU die and could be _easily_ implemented alongside Wii backwards compatibility, why isn't it there?


This is depressing. Thanks, Foxi!


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I'm left speechless.
> God I am really starting to develop a hate against that company every time they do something stupid as that.


It's not like I don't understand that move - the Gamecube is an old-ass system and there's no reason to support it two generations onwards, but the Wii U literally _has_ everything to support it, so there's no harm in implementing it.

Oh, wait - Gamecube HD remakes.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> For me they're borderline crippling. I can't even begin to guess how many times I turned the wrong way or too slowly in Sonic Colors, or attacked in the wrong direction in Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Project M.


 
I really don't wanna know how you manage to pull that off.


Foxi4 said:


> Oh, wait - Gamecube HD remakes.


I wouldn't mind if the remakes were actually remakes rather than HD ports.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> This is depressing. Thanks, Foxi!





XrosBlader821 said:


> I wouldn't mind if the remakes were actually remakes rather than HD ports.


I don't mind ports. As long as the game is good and the price is right, I'm all for it. It's when the port is priced like a brand-new game when I have a problem.

Enough about the Wii U, the Wii, the Gamecube, the PS3 and the PS4 though - this is a PSVita thread, let's stick to that. I was just making a point here - certain things become obsolete over time and stop being priorities in the eyes of the design team - DVD will soon enter that sphere too as BluRay slowly but surely replaces it.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 22, 2014)

Back to the Vita?

YEAH, VITA, HELL YEAH. I'm still playing Borderlands 2. It updated again the other day. Gotta say, it just keeps living up to expectations for me. A great purchase for my powerhouse of a handheld.


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## CathyRina (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't mind ports. As long as the game is good and the price is right, I'm all for it. It's when the port is priced like a brand-new game when I have a problem.


Which is what I was referring to.

But you're right we went kinda off topic here. 
I recently found out that the skype app of Vita also runs in the background while you are playing. which is really really neat. 


Nathan Drake said:


> Back to the Vita?
> 
> YEAH, VITA, HELL YEAH. I'm still playing Borderlands 2. It updated again the other day. Gotta say, it just keeps living up to expectations for me. A great purchase for my powerhouse of a handheld.


One thing that was bothering me. Does BL2 come with all the DLC's? If it is I would consider buying it.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

Nathan Drake said:


> Back to the Vita?
> 
> YEAH, VITA, HELL YEAH. I'm still playing Borderlands 2. It updated again the other day. Gotta say, it just keeps living up to expectations for me. A great purchase for my powerhouse of a handheld.


I have Borderlands 2 on my PS3 and it didn't particularly appeal to me, but it's still an achievement to have it running on a portable nonetheless. I just wish more third-party developers would go the extra mile and delivered similar large-scale games on the system as I do most of my gaming on-the-go.


XrosBlader821 said:


> I recently found out that the skype app of Vita also runs in the background while you are playing. which is really really neat.


It indeed does, just like all the other PSVita applications. The only gripe I have with it is that it does not support text messaging like the Android version does, which is a huge downside to me as I mostly use Skype for text-talk, as odd as it sounds considering it's primarily voice call-oriented service. I will add that the system does support phone calls though, provided you have a Skype credit, so technically you could even call someone on the phone while playing a game - neat.


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## zeello (Jun 22, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You can't make a controller that supports all gaming styles at once


You can make a controller that doesn't go out of its way to comment on which gaming styles are superior and what layout is best for them.



> otherwise you'd have to put a steering wheel and a joystick onto it for good measure.


There is hypothrtically no reason they can't be supported.



> You adjust the controller to work well with the majority of games, and for that, the left stick, the function buttons and the triggers are your primary input movements.


if you are moving with left stick, looking with right stick, changing direction with right stick, and aiming with right stick, then while doing those things your index fingers can only be on the shoulder buttons. Those are your buttons, this is your layout, and it could not get any more simple that that. The buttons and dpad are still there but logically speaking they are supplements if you are going to argue on the matter at all, which you have.



> most games aside from FPP ones do not require the constant manipulation of the camera and some don't require it at all


how frequently camera manipulation is needed shouldn't be the only factor. It should also be how many games use it at all (close too 100 percent) whether its used for aiming/shooting (i.e. mechanics ripped from fpp) as opposed to just looking at something, and whether youre using buttons WHILE doing it, or would have wanted to but cant.



> you're talking about isolated cases that require both analog sticks


Yes, complete random fluke occerences those are

also it is funny in itself you chose the word isolated when there is nothing isolated about it. The reason so many games use both sticks is precisely because games are not isolated. They do not exist in a vacuum. (hell, even when a game is designed in a vacuum, it is automatically shunned for it. How many times have we heard for sonic to become more like mario, or how many ppl hate RE for not being able to run and shoot when, hello, other shooters let you run and shoot. Someone give Capcom the memo? stop making your game different you numbnuts!) When a game copies asreally successful game or copies something which ten other games are doing, it's not exactly a damn coincidence, but an inevitable consequence, for better or worse.



> then again, we're just arguing over personal preference here, everybody has a different idea about ergonomics.


 
I'm not here saying "I prefer x", I'm here to point out that you are wrong.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 22, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> Which is what I was referring to.
> 
> But you're right we went kinda off topic here.
> I recently found out that the skype app of Vita also runs in the background while you are playing. which is really really neat.
> ...


Not all of the DLC, but quite a bit of it. The last two or three pieces of DLC should be coming at some point in the future, probably for an additional cost.

With the game though, you get:
Captain Scarlett and Her Pirate's Booty
Mr. Torgue's Campaign of Carnage
Collector's Edition Pack
Ultimate Vault Hunter Upgrade Pack 1
Mechromancer Character Pack
Psycho Character Pack

So a pretty huge chunk of the DLC for free just by purchasing a new copy of the game. Mind you, it isn't quite as good of a deal as picking up the GOTY edition on a home console, but it ain't bad by any means either considering they didn't have to include any DLC.

Edit: I should also mention that my trophies show a section for Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragonkeep as well, so I don't know if that was part of the DLC that just wasn't mentioned (I won't be able to access it for a little more story if it is included), or if it's just intended for release soon enough that they simply included that trophy section anyways.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 22, 2014)

zeello said:


> You can make a controller that doesn't go out of its way to comment on which gaming styles are superior and what layout is best for them.


No commentary, just pure utility. Providing comfort for the most popular and numerous game genres.


> There is hypothrtically no reason they can't be supported.


Steering wheels are better for racing games, joysticks are better for flight simulators, no hypothesizing here at all, just stating facts. In addition, analog sticks are not actually ideal for shooters - a mouse and a keybord are. This doesn't mean that a dual analog setup isn't optimal in all three cases, which is why it's implemented in pretty much all the consoles these days.


> if you are moving with left stick, looking with right stick, changing direction with right stick, and aiming with right stick, then while doing those things your index fingers can only be on the shoulder buttons. Those are your buttons, this is your layout, and it could not get any more simple that that. The buttons and dpad are still there but logically speaking they are supplements if you are going to argue on the matter at all, which you have.


Again, you're assuming that you're aiming or changing the camera angle all the time, which is not something you do in _most_ games, _most_ being the keyword. Dynamically changing the camera or aiming the reticule is only necessary in certain portions of most games - in others, you want the utility of function buttons instead.


> how frequently camera manipulation is needed shouldn't be the only factor. It should also be how many games use it at all (close too 100 percent) whether its used for aiming/shooting (i.e. mechanics ripped from fpp) as opposed to just looking at something, and whether youre using buttons WHILE doing it, or would have wanted to but cant.


Not that I want to burst your bubble, but aiming a reticule in FPP _is_ literally changing the camera orientation.


> Yes, complete random fluke occerences those are. also it is funny in itself you chose the word isolated when there is nothing isolated about it. The reason so many games use both sticks is precisely because games are not isolated. They do not exist in a vacuum. (hell, even when a game is designed in a vacuum, it is automatically shunned for it. How many times have we heard for sonic to become more like mario, or how many ppl hate RE for not being able to run and shoot when, hello, other shooters let you run and shoot. Someone give Capcom the memo? stop making your game different you numbnuts!) When a game copies asreally successful game or copies something which ten other games are doing, it's not exactly a damn coincidence, but an inevitable consequence, for better or worse.


Again, you're not getting my point. A lot of games, dare I say the majority of games these days use both sticks, but one is used more often than the other 9 out of 10 times.


> I'm not here saying "I prefer x", I'm here to point out that you are wrong.


In your opinion. Again, there's only so much you can do with an analog stick. If it's clickable, which isn't always the case, you can realistically assign only two functions to it - one for the button and one for the axes the stick works around. In comparison, you have four function buttons. If in your game the character will have to be able to perform four functions, say, jump, sneak, use items and crouch _(running already mapped to the left clickable analog)_, you are completely boned with your imagined setting. I _have_ seen some implementations of treating the analog like a multi-directional D-Pad where each direction enables a different function, but they were all incredibly inaccurate simply because you had to hit the sweet spots to activate what you actually wanted, making them terribly uncomfortable and hamfisted.

Again, this is completely a matter of personal preference. To me, the priority placement is the one with thumbs upwards, to you it makes no difference and that's also a valid position - we just have a different idea about controller ergonomics.


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## CathyRina (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It indeed does, just like all the other PSVita applications. The only gripe I have with it is that it does not support text messaging like the Android version does, which is a huge downside to me as I mostly use Skype for text-talk, as odd as it sounds considering it's primarily voice call-oriented service. I will add that the system does support phone calls though, provided you have a Skype credit, so technically you could even call someone on the phone while playing a game - neat.


 Me too  
I was really disappointed to see that i can't text chat with other people through it which is why I discovered this function so late. It is really a god sin that the Vita is doing so poorly.


Nathan Drake said:


> *snip*


Neat, I guess I am going to buy it then. Thanks for the info.
I would love to buy the GOTY Edition now on Steam but I am too broke atm. My timing really isn't the best sometimes >.< 
Outside of the sale its about 50€ so If I get almost the same for half the price on a portable console then it sounds like a fair deal to me.


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## zeello (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Remind me of the last game that had jumping mapped to the triggers, I don't seem to recall any. Triggers are just that - triggers.


it's called Bumper Jumper



> They're mostly for shooting in FPP/TPP,


Yes they are prominently featured for shooting, wanna know why that is? Because 1) you can't shoot with a face button, and 2) vast majority of games have shooting.

checkmate



> I can't think of a single title that would have jump mapped to the triggers - even Call of Duty has it mapped to X/A buttons.


Some games have reload mapped to shoulders, others have it on face buttons. That is not exactly the point. It doesn't really prove anything to show that some games map something to a face button. (whether that something is jump or something else) The exact same FPS which uses face button for jump uses the camera stick and the shoulder buttons as much if not more so than the face buttons, so, you still lose.

And I must point out that how a game maps is controls is irrelevant. If for example a new Mario game mapped jump button to the dpad, is that an argument for why the dpad should be in the primary position while the left stick should be demoted to support role? No, it doesn't, because 1) being on top or bottom should not denote superiority or inferiority, and because 2) if given the choice, I would simply map jump to something else. In effect, how a particular game chose to map its controls is irrelevant.



> No commentary, just pure utility. Providing comfort for the most popular and numerous game genres.


in other words
shooters (first person)
shooters (third person)
FPP (elder scrolls, etc)
and games with FPP and FPS mechanics (e.g. GTA, Infamous, Just cause 2, Uncharted, etc, etc)

or do you live in a bubble where you ONLY play the exceptions.



> Steering wheels are better for racing games, joysticks are better for flight simulators, no hypothesizing here at all, just stating facts.


Per your logic a controller is going to inferior at some things no matter how you style the layout. Having both sticks on bottom is fundamentally no worse than having the stick layouts mixed up, except that personally I would rather have a controller that's not expressly made worse for certain things (which is what leaving the camera stick in the non-primary position represents) rather than a controller that is specifically designed for a nonexistent environment. (i.e. an environment where camera stick is seldomly used or not used at all)



> Again, you're assuming that you're aiming or changing the camera angle all the time, which is not something you do in _most_ games, _most_ being the keyword.


It is something you do in most games, usually most of the times, but even if it's not most of the time, it's going to be all the time during sequences when shooting mechanics are used.


> Dynamically changing the camera or aiming the reticule is only necessary in certain portions of most games - in others, you want the utility of function buttons instead.


You've placed the burden on yourself to explain why face buttons deserve priority while the camera control deserves to be snubbed.

And why do you keep saying function buttons? Aside from it being unintelligible, I can't figure out why you do it in the first place. I mean it's like not face buttons are sentient beings when can be offended if I use politically incorrect terms to describe them.



> Not that I want to burst your bubble, but aiming a reticule in FPP _is_ literally changing the camera orientation.


If camera and aiming are the same thing then why are you snubbing both? Why are you arguing that games only sometimes make you point a gun, and that pointing a gun and/or turning your character using camera stick is not the definining mechanic of all of gaming for at least two gens now?

You still think videogames work like Nintendo 64: left stick to move, A to swing your sword, camera buttons to access your inventory. R-button for z-targeting because looking at enemies manually would be too confusing to implement, and let's completely ignore the that that 90 percent of games have you manually look at everything that needs to be looked at, a process which requires constant attention from the player.

Oh but zeello what if I want to CROUCH?!



> Again, you're not getting my point. A lot of games, dare I say the majority of games these days use both sticks, but one is used more often than the other 9 out of 10 times.


That's only because one is used all the time.
And what about dpad? It's used less than the camera stick. So why not create a third row and put the dpad there? So we'd have a primary position, sub-primary position, and sub-sub primary position, and everything would be in the correct place.

The dpad come to think of it raises another point. Games with 3D environments will use dpad only seldomly. Whereas they will almost certainly use the camera stick a lot more. As I stated earlier, the only thing camera stick is "competing" with are buttons, but WE ALREADY HAVE THOSE. THEY ARE ON THE SHOULDER.



> In your opinion.


If you give unintelligible or inaccurate reasoning then it's not necessarily a matter of opinion.



> Again, there's only so much you can do with an analog stick. If it's clickable, which isn't always the case, you can realistically assign only two functions to it - one for the button and one for the axes the stick works around. In comparison, you have four function buttons.


Okay but why do you assign left stick to the primary position then? It only does two things whereas dpad does four things. Dpad wins.

Left stick is only needed in between sequences to get to the next area. It's purely a peripheral function and not something you need to do constantly in most games.



> If in your game the character will have to be able to perform four functions, say, jump, sneak, use items and crouch _(running already mapped to the left clickable analog)_, you are completely boned with your imagined setting.


What is 'imagined setting' even referring to?! Could you be referring to when I had this:
*"if you are moving with left stick, looking with right stick, changing direction with right stick, and aiming with right stick, then while doing those things your index fingers can only be on the shoulder buttons. Those are your buttons, this is your layout, and it could not get any more simple that that. The buttons and dpad are still there but logically speaking they are supplements if you are going to argue on the matter at all, which you have.*

Umm, that's not some hypothetical dream controller I was making up. It's what we literally have. I even mentioned the buttons and dpad. It's a real controller and I'm not the one who made it, so in no way is there a burden on me to defend it or explain why it would work. I'm not asking for a camera stick; we already have one. I'm not asking for games to use the camera stick more; it is already used excessively.

It floors me however that some people don't see that and I have to wonder if it's precisely _because_ the face buttons are in the "primary" position or because they have bright colors and are iconified by letters/symbols while sticks are just sticks. In that case it is a top-down, subliminal effect. Buttons aren't "primary" because of their innate importance, you are assigning them innate importance because they are "primary". All those times you use the camera stick, it never really happens, because it's way down there, it's gray/black, and isn't labelled, and doesn't make things explode the instant you use it. Killing an enemy isn't so much the camera stick's job as it is the button's; the camera stick was merely supplementary to the kill-whatever-is-in-the-exact-center-of-the-screen button, and in no way the complete opposite.  Next we'll be saying that left stick should be replaced with gas button and steering should be placed where the R trigger is. Because you hold down gas all the time, but steering is something you only occasionally do. "just when there's a turn, zeello. duh" Mario kart is a game about going fast and using items, the steering part is only when the course demands it, which is not most of the time. (key word: most)



> To me, function buttons take priority over the right analog stick which in my case stays dormant most of the time unless I need to adjust the camera"


hell yes, exactly. When playing Gran Turismo, my left stick stays dormant most of the time unless I need to adjust where I'm driving to. Bravo, Foxi. Bravo.



> Again, this is completely a matter of personal preference. To me, the priority placement is the one with thumbs upwards


If you think this, then it stands to reason that there should be a stick under both of your thumbs. You're the one saying this. You cannot say there should be a stick under the left thumb "because games nowadays" but not the other thumb, in spite of games nowadays.



> to you it makes no difference


It is a noble position. If you give me a controller with both sticks on bottom (PS style) or both sticks on top (WiiU style) then both are valid offerings and I will not complain in either case, because both are neutral and neither have anything retarded to say. But if you give me a controller with a stick on top and the other on bottom and say "you're welcome" then I might take it upon myself to explain why you are wrong, and furthermore, I will also defend my right not to have myself stick-layout-evangelized. Would I put up with a controller with the left stick on bottom, right stick on top, a layout which was forced upon me only because a bunch of idiot fanboys made some noise insisting that it should be the standard controller? In such a scenario, I'm not the one who started the issue, I'm merely someone who was dragged into it whether I liked it or not. Of course it's a perfectly usable layout, in fact equally usable to the other 3 possible combinations (PS, Xbox, and WiiU) but I nonetheless could not use such a controller if me doing so would be taken a concession that the controller is somehow better than other layouts when it certainly is not.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

zeello said:


> _*Snip!*_


I actually had a pretty long-winded response ready for you, despite reaching a couple sections that made me question whether you're genuienly confused, trolling, being sarcastic or being stupid.

To name a couple,_ "Left stick is only needed in between sequences to get to the next area"_, as if y'know, games didn't feature _movement_, be it of the character or across menus _all the time_. Another gem was _"__If you think this, then it stands to reason that there should be a stick under both of your thumbs."_ which goes _completely_ against the preceeding idea of putting more priority on movement and face buttons and less priority on the d-pad and camera control, specifically because the D-pad and the right analog stick are used sporadically, if at all. _"__Okay but why do you assign left stick to the primary position then? It only does two things whereas dpad does four things. Dpad wins"_ is a firm personal favourite - because 4 directions _(8 if you count diagonal combinations)_ are better than 360 degrees of movement _(actually more than that, since computers operate on radians, but I'll keep it simple for you)_.

Our disagreement isn't based based on superficial details, it's based on _absolutely fundamental principles_. If you really want to put both thumbs on the thumbsticks and never take them off at any point in time for maximum precision of movement and camera control, I suggest designing a controller with two analog sticks and least 8 shoulder buttons and triggers because by god, _you're going to need them_. Here in the real world games use function buttons, or if you prefer, face buttons _(which is a terribly inaccurate description since Start/Select/PlayStation/XBox/Home/+/- and a variety of other buttons on contemporary controllers are face buttons, but are not in-game function buttons. As a side note I'll also say that they're situated in the least prioritized place, in the very center of the controller, because they're the least used - I know, mindblowing)_.

I'll even go as far as to refute your _"you cannot shoot with face buttons"_ point with an example - various installments of Metal Gear Solid seem to work perfectly fine with using the face buttons just fine for that purpose. The _"vast majority of games contain shooting"_ point can also be easily contested, but that's self-explainatory. Your _"checkmate"_ is a lot more like _"this is my inaccurate approximation of the real world"_. Alas, I digress.

You say that both sticks are used more or less equally and point out such genres as... FPS and TPS. That's all you mention. That's it. FPP and TPP are not genres, they're perspectives, but again, that's besides the point. I take it that in your world, turn-based RPG's, strategies, racing games, sports games, puzzle games, fighting games and 2D games simply don't exist... and you're calling my bubble _"small"_.

I've made my point clear, but I'll make it clearer in this finishing post - pick up your phone. Now have a good look at what you're doing. Call me clairvoyant, but you probably did something along those lines:







Do you know why? Because holding your thumb up comes to you naturally, it's the anatomically-correct placement. Holding it across the phone does not. This is why some sections of the controller are prioritized and some are not. When holding a controller in an anatomically-correct way, you want to have the most commonly used inputs at your fingertips - this includes the left analog stick which is used all the time, the triggers _(which are always accessible anyways)_ and the face buttons, if you insist on me calling them that. The rest of the inputs are in other places on the controller that are less favourable, the d-pad and the right analog stick using the ones that are still fairly easily accessible. That's all there is too it.

You don't seem to understand what ergonomics stand for, so I'll explain - ergonomics of a controller are all about creating shapes and setups that are most anatomically sound. When you're holding your hand in its resting position, your digits are slightly curved wheras your thumb is pointing straight, as such:






It's not pointing away from the rest of your hand _(as it would have to be to reach the center of the controller)_, it's straight, anatomically correct. You want your primary inputs to be within reach when your thumb is in this level position because it avoids unnecessary strain - that's ergonomical. Now, let's super-impose this onto an image of a controller.






This is the exact same hand in the exact same resting position, mirrored and semi-transparent for your point-viewing convenience. Bar some minor size adjustments, it should now be relatively clear why some positions on a gamepad are more prioritized than others. Here's how the same situation looks like in real-life, with applied grip.






This is a natural, relaxed position. You're holding the controller and all the important inputs are at your fingertips. You don't have to turn or stretch out your thumb to move the on-screen character or cursor - this causes less strain. At the same time, other inputs are not _too_ far away from that relaxed position, so when you _do_ need to use them, your thumb does not have to travel far to reach them, but at the same time, they're not in the way.

In an ideal setup you want to provide the most convenience with the least strain, this is why controllers have layouts that allow the user access to core functionality without moving the digits too far from their natural resting position - maximizing utility while minimizing the amount of movement equals maximizing efficiency and minimizing strain - that's controller ergonomics.






If you want to argue about this further, I'd like you to take it outside of this thread, which is about the PSVita, and sort it out elsewhere - I've made my point crystal clear, rarely do I ever resort to images in order to explain a point, especially ones that require me to put in some effort in the form of editing, and if you still don't get it then we'll just have to agree to disagree, because again, we disagree on absolutely fundamental points when it comes to design. I hope you will respect that and refrain from taking this thread off-topic even further.


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> As JoostinOnline would say, _"you're absolutely right, there is no next gen - the PS4, Xbox One and Wii U are current gen consoles"_, but hey.


You just saved me a lot of typing.


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## zeello (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I actually had a pretty long-winded response ready for you, despite reaching a couple sections that made me question whether you're genuienly confused, trolling, being sarcastic or being stupid.
> 
> To name a couple,_ "Left stick is only needed in between sequences to get to the next area"_, as if y'know, games didn't feature _movement_, be it of the character or across menus _all the time_.


It was sarcasm. I was satirizing your own argument and pointing out exactly how your argument sounds to me. As if, y'know, games didn't feature _turning _or_ looking_, be it of the character or aiming your weapon all the time.



> Another gem was _"__If you think this, then it stands to reason that there should be a stick under both of your thumbs."_ which goes _completely_ against the preceeding idea of putting more priority on movement and face buttons and less priority on the d-pad and camera control, specifically because the D-pad and the right analog stick are used sporadically, if at all.


Correct, it does go completely against the idea, because the idea is wrong. You are the one saying that strafing and face buttons deserve priority whereas camera stick deserves to be snubbed, but I had never agreed to it and in fact have spent most of this time explaining why. Your logic is that left stick deserves priority because left stick is important. In that case right stick deserves priority too since it's important also, and arguably the 2nd-most important thing on the controller. 3rd place might be the interact-with-but-usually-kill-whatever-is-in-the-exact-center-of-the-screen button, a.k.a. right trigger, followed by the other remaining shoulder buttons/triggers, followed by face buttons, followed by dpad. Obviously there are exceptions but we've both accepted that the exceptions don't dictate the controller otherwise dpad should go on top for fighting games. We're talking about the majority and the pervasive, and we're at a point where there are clearly things that are majority and pervasive -- shooters, shooter controls, and shooter mechanics. Or:
Left stick = legs
right stick = head
right trigger = interact (i.e. kill)
the rest is just 11 other ways of doing things that isn't kill, or, additional ways to kill



> _"__Okay but why do you assign left stick to the primary position then? It only does two things whereas dpad does four things. Dpad wins"_ is a firm personal favourite - because 4 directions _(8 if you count diagonal combinations)_ are better than 360 degrees of movement _(actually more than that, since computers operate on radians, but I'll keep it simple for you)_.


This is another clearly obvious parody and I have to wonder if you are trolling me by not purposefully ignoring my attempts at sarcasm. You wrote: "Again, there's only so much you can do with an analog stick. In comparison, you have four function buttons." Really dude.... _really_.

What's funny is you did not even specify which stick you were talking about. (even though you were obviously talking about the camera stick since it's the one you hate) You could have been talking about the left stick, thereby satirizing your own argument without even having to change a single word in your sentence. It's like you saw your double standard walking toward you and you walked right past.



> Our disagreement isn't based based on superficial details, it's based on _absolutely fundamental principles_. If you really want to put both thumbs on the thumbsticks and never take them off at any point in time for maximum precision of movement and camera control, I suggest designing a controller with two analog sticks and least 8 shoulder buttons and triggers because by god, _you're going to need them_.


We have access to the same amount of buttons regardless of stick layout. I don't necessarily want to "never take my thumbs off at any point" the control sticks any more than you never want to take your thumbs off the face buttons + left stick.



> Here in the real world games use function buttons, or if you prefer, face buttons _(which is a terribly inaccurate description since Start/Select/PlayStation/XBox/Home/+/- and a variety of other buttons on contemporary controllers are face buttons, but are not in-game function buttons. As a side note I'll also say that they're situated in the least prioritized place, in the very center of the controller, because they're the least used - I know, mindblowing)_.


Here in the real world, games use camera stick and they use it prominently, many games require you use it* just to be able to turn a corner.*

Also, function button is a terribly inaccurate description, because shoulder buttons perform functions, and because start/select/etc perform functions.



> I'll even go as far as to refute your _"you cannot shoot with face buttons"_ point with an example - various installments of Metal Gear Solid seem to work perfectly fine with using the face buttons just fine for that purpose.


I was referring to games that use the camera stick for aiming, during which time you obviously use a shoulder or trigger to fire due to there being no other choice. Without fail, these games use a shoulder for trigger for firing, even when they use face button for jump.

Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 didn't do this but it is an overhead stealth game not a shooter. But MGS4 uses shooter conventions and mechanics, and so does Peace Walker. They are shooters. Which proves my point. This alone tells a story how once gaming was not all shooter centric but now absolutely is. MGS didn't even have camera stick initially. But now it does and I'm even being lectured how Peace Walker on PSP sucks due to a lack of it. Wake up.



> The _"vast majority of games contain shooting"_ point can also be easily contested, but that's self-explainatory. Your _"checkmate"_ is a lot more like _"this is my inaccurate approximation of the real world"_. Alas, I digress.


It's an inaccurate approximation if the approximation is predestined. If you have a certain idea about the way gaming but never cross-examine your model of the world then you will always assume it to be correct even in the face of evidence that it isn't.



> You say that both sticks are used more or less equally and point out such genres as... FPS and TPS. That's all you mention. That's it. FPP and TPP are not genres, they're perspectives, but again, that's besides the point.


FPP always uses FPS controls and usually has projectiles if not guns.
A TPP is likely to use FPS controls and mechanics and often does so prominently.
In my book that makes them FPS/TPS since I categorize games by their controls, mechanics, and gameplay, and not by superficial differences by whether its first person or third person. By that logic racing shouldn't be a genre, but first person racing (FPR) for cockpit view and third person racing (TPR) for chase view. And if racing game lets you choose, then it's mixing genres.



> I take it that in your world, turn-based RPG's, strategies, racing games, sports games, puzzle games, fighting games and 2D games simply don't exist... and you're calling my bubble _"small"_.


And now you're acting like I am writing off all those genres, but in fact you are the one doing that by supposing which of those genres needs to be rejected by the stick layout. I am saying, reject none of them. I implore you not to reject genres on other gamers' behalf. That is not a _good idea_, it's just asshattery, but you are passing it off as ergonomics, and go on to prove yourself to be woefully unqualified to make such ergonomic choices in the first place since you don't even play videogames apparently.

Also, irony, you point our puzzle games and fighting games and 2D games, all things which are better with dpad on top as per your logic, but you had decided to give the priority to left stick instead of dpad. So I take it that in your your world, turn-based RPG's, puzzle games, fighting games and 2D games simply don't exist.... for shame, Foxi, you need to expand your horizons



> I've made my point clear, but I'll make it clearer in this finishing post - pick up your phone. Now have a good look at what you're doing. Call me clairvoyant, but you probably did something along those lines:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and therefore totally not the position you want to be vying for headshots with.



> Holding it across the phone does not. This is why some sections of the controller are prioritized and some are not. When holding a controller in an anatomically-correct way, you want to have the most commonly used inputs at your fingertips - this includes the left analog stick which is used all the time, the triggers _(which are always accessible anyways)_ and the right analog stick.


fixed

and it's quite generous of you to point out to your own detriment that the shoulder buttons are always accessible anyway. Because in that case why even fight for the function buttons, if you insist on me calling them that.
You've got a) movement stick, b) turning stick, and c) buttons
you're trying to replace b) turning stick, with d) _even more buttons_
It's a button extravaganza
hell, 8 buttons might not be enough, you might need dpad to access inventory, switch weapons, bring up HUD/map and to fucking crouch
Therefore the dpad should get priority over the left stick.
This is common sense zeello how do you not see it. Pick up your phone.



> The rest of the inputs are in other places on the controller that are less favourable, the d-pad and the right analog stick using the ones that are still fairly easily accessible. That's all there is too it.


The fact you are willing to concede that the dpad and right analog stick are still fairly accessible just serves to undercut your whole argument. You were the one, not me, whose entire argument was based on the idea that one position is vastly superior over the other. But it seems you get to always lean back on the fact that it doesn't really matter. Kind of hypocritical no? I agree that it doesn't really matter so what's why I will always pick the symmetrical controller. At least with a symmetrical controller you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right whereas an assymetrical controller has a 1 in 4 chance. But really it's more of a 1 in 8 chance, because it's not simply that there are four combinations of stick layout, but the assymetrical controller is effectively ruling out half of the combinations. Half of 1 in 4 is 1 in 8.

And just think, symmetrical still guarantees giving you either a left stick in the super awesome position which you like, or the aiming stick in the back of the bus position which you like. It's not a wholly bad scenario for you Foxi.



> You don't seem to understand what ergonomics stand for, so I'll explain - ergonomics of a controller are all about creating shapes and setups that are most anatomically sound. When you're holding your hand in its resting position, your digits are slightly curved wheras your thumb is pointing straight, as such:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so it stands to reason that's where the aiming / turning /looking stick should be, as per your logic



> You want your primary inputs to be within reach when your thumb is in this level position because it avoids unnecessary strain - that's ergonomical. Now, let's super-impose this onto an image of a controller.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except that if it were a Playstation controller those hands would be holding dpad and face buttons. So I guess dpad and face buttons take priority then? Hmm.

If it were a WiiU pro controller or gamepad then the hands would be holding both sticks. Aha! I win!



> Here's how the same situation looks like in real-life, with applied grip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly, which is why the controller designed for Halo doesn't have your thumb on aiming. Halo is a game where you are only occasionally pointing a gun at enemies, but hardly all of the time.

The original Xbox controller had 6 face buttons and the camera stick was designed differently (and worse) from the left stick. (see also Gamecube) What does that tell you.

Dreamcast controller had left stick and face buttons in the correct place. But it didn't even have a camera stick at all. What does that tell you.

Stop being wrong.

And here's a pop quiz. If you think face buttons are so important, then why aren't those functions mapped to the shoulders? No really, think about it.



> You're holding the controller and all the important inputs are at your fingertips. You don't have to turn or stretch out your thumb to move the on-screen character or cursor - this causes less strain.


OH. So in order to aim a gun, I should have to feel strain. But obviously, when using the face buttons, no amount of strain is acceptable apparently. *cough* face-button-chauvinist...

Maybe each time I use camera stick, I should receive an electric shock. Whereas the face buttons should be air conditioned.



> At the same time, other inputs are not _too_ far away from that relaxed position, so when you _do_ need to use them, your thumb does not have to travel far to reach them, but at the same time, they're not in the way.


Oh again with the apologetics

By now I hope you understand I am aware of the concept of ergonomics you are trying to sell me, just that I think you're still wrong. (By now I have become aware that you think I am really incredibly stupid as you are using pictures to explain very basic concepts that you have reiterated several times already) As I have pointed out, I'm not merely arguing my preference here. I'm pointing out that you're wrong. If you're going to argue that the most important controls should go on top, and that the left stick should be on top, then you've done yourself in, because already implied the camera stick should also be on top. It's over. You lose, you get nothing. Good day sir. To argue otherwise is an inane, contradictory, and hopelessly fickle as an assymetrical controller _is_.



> In an ideal setup you want to provide the most convenience with the least strain, this is why controllers have layouts that allow the user access to core functionality


Right because movement, turning, and aiming are not core functionality

What we need is additional buttons to the ones we already have access to, and for those additional buttons to be maximally easy to reach.

Because everyone knows that games are not about navigating 3D environments as characters, nor for that matter are they ever about aiming and firing ranged weapons. In fact, most videogames are accordion simulators.





>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment

to date, the amounts of times Sony or MS has switched stick layout:
0

number of fanboys who prefer their most-used stick layout, but purely for ergonomic reasons, and totally don't consider themselves biased at all:
all of them




> If you want to argue about this further, I'd like you to take it outside of this thread, which is about the PSVita, and sort it out elsewhere - I've made my point crystal clear


so have I



> rarely do I ever resort to images in order to explain a point,


all too commonly I have to resort to common sense as well as exposing hypocrisy



> especially ones that require me to put in some effort in the form of editing, and if you still don't get it then we'll just have to agree to disagree


agree to disagree on what exactly. Is it that a) face buttons are superior to control stick, or b) a controller can't be perfect for everything, therefore we all might as well be forced to use Foxi's favorite layout.


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## emigre (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Alright, then why doesn't the PS3 support VHS or audio casette tapes? Why doesn't the PS2? Is it perhaps that... the format is irrelevant to them? _;O;_
> 
> The PS4 needs MP3 and DLNA support right now, Audio CD's I can live without. I don't remember the last time I've used one even on PC, I switched to MP3's a decade ago, and so did the world.


 

The lack of consoles supporting vinyl disgusts me.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

I like how I changed from a Sony fanboy to a Microsoft fanboy throughout the course of this thread.


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## Duo8 (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I like how I changed from a Sony fanboy to a Microsoft fanboy throughout the course of this thread.


 
By the end of this thread you'll have gone through Nintendo and PC.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

Duo8 said:


> By the end of this thread you'll have gone through Nintendo and PC.


It's really not my fault that some controllers are just better-designed than others. Remember, kids! If you have an opinion and can support it with arguments, it means you're a fanboy! 

To be fair though, the Dual Shock 4 is a step in the right direction thanks to the updated shape of the L2/R2 triggers and the improved grip, it's definitely a more comfortable controller than the Dual Shocks 1/2/3, at least for the adult gamer. The three earlier iterations are a tad too small for my liking and I'm glad that they let go of tradition in favour of improving the controller, but I won't say that outloud, lest I'm accused of prejudice against little people.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's really not my fault that some controllers are just better-designed than others. Remember, kids! If you have an opinion and can support it with arguments, it means you're a fanboy!
> 
> To be fair though, the Dual Shock 4 is a step in the right direction thanks to the updated shape of the L2/R2 triggers and the improved grip, it's definitely a more comfortable controller than the Dual Shock 1/2/3, at least for the adult gamer - the other three are a tad too small for my liking, but I won't say that outloud, lest I'm accused of prejudice against little people.


The DS4 makes my hands jizz when I use it. 

FOXI4 WHAT THE FUCK YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE A SONY FANBOY


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> FOXI4 WHAT THE FUCK YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE A SONY FANBOY


Magnavox Odyssey Master Race.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

Are we really arguing ergonomics?

Maybe you should not have such fucking stupid hands.


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## DJPlace (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Magnavox Odyssey Master Race.


 

no Foxi4 come back enjoy the dark side. but on a serious note. now i think the vita is turning into a fan service system. for 2 games i know so far. (which are vita only btw)

Monster Monpiece

and the DOA Killer (not gameplay killer but sexy look btw)

*Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus*


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 23, 2014)

DJPlace said:


> no Foxi4 come back enjoy the dark side. but on a serious note. now i think the vita is turning into a fan service system. for 2 games i know so far. (which are vita only btw)
> 
> Monster Monpiece
> 
> ...


Nah, the Vita isn't for fan service. The Vita just happens to have a large number of weaboo games, and a large number of those weaboo games simply have fan service. Honestly, I don't know why we got Monster Monpiece. That seems like a really odd choice for localization.


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## Arras (Jun 23, 2014)

DJPlace said:


> no Foxi4 come back enjoy the dark side. but on a serious note. now i think the vita is turning into a fan service system. for 2 games i know so far. (which are vita only btw)
> 
> Monster Monpiece
> 
> ...


No, it's turning into a weeaboo system. Or rather, it already was one.

...And I just bought one. I'm not sure how I should feel. (the download list is a fucking mess)


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## DJPlace (Jun 23, 2014)

what the hell is a weeaboo?


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## Kalker3 (Jun 23, 2014)

DJPlace said:


> what the hell is a weeaboo?



http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/weeaboo


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## CathyRina (Jun 23, 2014)

Duo8 said:


> By the end of this thread you'll have gone through Nintendo and PC.


 
What about Sega? The first issue of BFWWIWA was about a Sega system after all. Only a Sega Fanboy would do such madness.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> What about Sega? The first issue of BFWWIWA was about a Sega system after all. Only a Sega Fanboy would do such madness.


Every console has something to offer, some more than others. Sometimes it's good to delve into the details of the underdogs because it's those systems that usually fly over everyone's head and it's those systems that may have interesting content that could not be experienced anywhere else. It's all about the hidden gems.


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## CathyRina (Jun 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Every console has something to offer, some more than others. Sometimes it's good to delve into the details of the underdogs because it's those systems that usually fly over everyone's head and it's those systems that may have interesting content that could not be experienced anywhere else. It's all about the hidden gems.


 
ikr I was just being sarcastic since that whole fanboyism is really childish and stupid.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

XrosBlader821 said:


> ikr I was just being sarcastic since that whole fanboyism is really childish and stupid.


I try to look for good things even in the systems I think are poor, blind fanboyism is pretty silly.


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## DJPlace (Jun 23, 2014)

omg... i don't want to turn into a one of those weeaboo. also i never knew wapanese meant that btw. thanks for the info.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 23, 2014)

Any good places online to import a 64GB memory card???


Almost got 2x 32GB a lil while ago but thought it might be cheaper just getting a 64GB.....


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> Any good places online to import a 64GB memory card??? Almost got 2x 32GB a lil while ago but thought it might be cheaper just getting a 64GB.....


eBay and Amazon are easy sources to consider and a 64GB card is indeed cheaper than two 32GB ones, not to mention that it's more convenient.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 23, 2014)

I kinda doubt it now but what do u think the possibility of a 128GB Card being announced for the Vita this year???


I remember being extremely happy finding out i could use a Micro SD Adapter and 2x 64GB cards to get around 120GB on my PSP


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## Foxi4 (Jun 23, 2014)

Gaming4Ever said:


> I kinda doubt it now but what do u think the possibility of a 128GB Card being announced for the Vita this year??? I remember being extremely happy finding out i could use a Micro SD Adapter and 2x 64GB cards to get around 120GB on my PSP


I'd say it's slim at best - the 64GB cards did not make their way to the west yet and have to be imported, 128GB ones are well-within the realm of dreams for now. I do think that 64GB should be fine for everyday use though, if you're planning to store a lot of content on your PSVita and don't mind the expense, I'd go for one of those.


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## Gaming4Ever (Jun 23, 2014)

Moar Moar i need Moar!!!


Memory Card cost being a factor im tryin to get everything i can in Physical Format and DL'ing all my PS+ stuff on Memory Cards for the time being......


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## Buck_7 (Jun 24, 2014)

Cool review Foxi4. Did I see front and rear touchpads? Huh??


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 24, 2014)

Buck_7 said:


> Cool review Foxi4. Did I see front and rear touchpads? Huh??


 
The front screen is a touchscreen, and the back features a rear touchpad for various other functions.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 24, 2014)

Buck_7 said:


> Cool review Foxi4. Did I see front and rear touchpads? Huh??


See above. 

The PSVita is equipped with a capacitive touchscreen as well as a touchpad on the back of the unit, useful when scrolling web pages in the browser and sporadically used in gameplay.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 27, 2014)

For all the ladies and gentlemen still undecided due to storage prices, Amazon has just reduced the price of 16GB PSVita cards from $60 to $25. If there was ever a good time to grab one of those, it's now. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006J...id=1403873944&ref_=sr_1_2&s=videogames&sr=1-2

Link courtesy of clarky, thanks a bunch.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 27, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> For all the ladies and gentlemen still undecided due to storage prices, Amazon has just reduced the price of 16GB PSVita cards from $60 to $25. If there was ever a good time to grab one of those, it's now.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006J...id=1403873944&ref_=sr_1_2&s=videogames&sr=1-2
> 
> Link courtesy of clarky, thanks a bunch.


 
Curses! So many great sales going on when I have no $$$.  Any idea if this is a sale, or a price drop?


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## Marth16 (Jun 27, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> For all the ladies and gentlemen still undecided due to storage prices, Amazon has just reduced the price of 16GB PSVita cards from $60 to $25. If there was ever a good time to grab one of those, it's now.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006J...id=1403873944&ref_=sr_1_2&s=videogames&sr=1-2
> 
> Link courtesy of clarky, thanks a bunch.


Damn, I payed nearly 40€ on mine.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 27, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Curses! So many great sales going on when I have no $$$.  Any idea if this is a sale, or a price drop?


I think it's a sale, sorry.

*EDIT:* It would appear that the $25 offer is now over, the 16GB cards are now listed at $38.98, which is still a good dealio.

http://www.amazon.com/16GB-PlayStat...F8&qid=1403993994&sr=8-1&keywords=PSVita+16GB


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## zeello (Jul 8, 2014)

ok I've been saving up but lately I've had some hesitance. Someone on Giant Bomb told me that Assassin's Creed Liberation has AR minigames where you're required to hold it up to a lightbulb. That was kind the game I was looking forward to. (dunno why)

It's just one game, not a deal breaker right? But see here's the thing, I already knew I despised read touchpad and I knew that Killzone Mercenary has touch gesture shenanigans. (so does Uncharted GA for that matter) And LBP uses rear touchpad not that I'd get that game anyway after playing the PSP LBP. So the issue here is not one game but the fact that I'm seeing sort of an epidemic here regarding full retail Vita titles. And add to that my previous concerns of the Vita's buttons being too small, and the fact that pressing X means you nudge the stick because they are placed so closely together, and the fact that, since Vita has two sticks, all game devs will just straight port FPS games onto it even though it will be much harder to be accurate on a Vita. Even in Gravity Rush demo it was fiddly trying to center on an enemy.

So now I'm sort of in indecision. It doesn't help I'm sort of in an existential crisis, I don't know why I exist much less why I play games, and AC Liberation just adds to that, because it's like the game devs are just tripping over themselves running in circles and I'm just someone merely trying to salvage something out of all the madness. Why do I do this exactly?

In any case my new to-get game instead of AC Liberation is Sonic Racing Transformed. Right on for listing it in the OP, I just hope it doesn't disappoint.

Also, weirder still, I was wondering if I should get a 2DS after all. It makes no sense. Vita used to be the good guy and 3DS the bad guy but at the moment neither particularly make that much more sense to me than the other. All I know is that 2DS is cheaper than Vita, and makes me ashamed to be tempted for that reason, since it is why Nintendo always wins.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 8, 2014)

zeello said:


> ok I've been saving up but lately I've had some hesitance. Someone on Giant Bomb told me that Assassin's Creed Liberation has AR minigames where you're required to hold it up to a lightbulb. That was kind the game I was looking forward to. (dunno why)
> 
> It's just one game, not a deal breaker right? But see here's the thing, I already knew I despised read touchpad and I knew that Killzone Mercenary has touch gesture shenanigans. (so does Uncharted GA for that matter) And LBP uses rear touchpad not that I'd get that game anyway after playing the PSP LBP. So the issue here is not one game but the fact that I'm seeing sort of an epidemic here regarding full retail Vita titles. And add to that my previous concerns of the Vita's buttons being too small, and the fact that pressing X means you nudge the stick because they are placed so closely together, and the fact that, since Vita has two sticks, all game devs will just straight port FPS games onto it even though it will be much harder to be accurate on a Vita. Even in Gravity Rush demo it was fiddly trying to center on an enemy.
> 
> ...


So tell me if I'm getting this right... You're dismissing the PSVita because it features occasional use of the touchscreen, camera or the touchpad _(which often times is optional)_... and you're leaning towards the 2DS, a system strictly touchscreen-oriented? Alright, each to their own, I guess.

As far as Sonic Racing Transformed is concerned, if you've played the home console versions, you know exactly how it'll look and play like. The differences are minimal and mostly in lighting, but the PSVita version is still whole lightyears ahead of the bastardized 3DS one.


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## Arras (Jul 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> So tell me if I'm getting this right... You're dismissing the PSVita because it features occasional use of the touchscreen, camera or the touchpad _(which often times is optional)_... and you're leaning towards the 2DS, a system strictly touchscreen-oriented? Alright, each to their own, I guess.
> 
> As far as Sonic Racing Transformed is concerned, if you've played the home console versions, you know exactly how it'll look and play like. The differences are minimal and mostly in lighting, but the PSVita version is still whole lightyears ahead of the bastardized 3DS one.


To be fair it's really easy to accidentally tap the back touchpad while using it. Accidentally tapping the touchscreen on a 2/3DS is near impossible.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 8, 2014)

Arras said:


> To be fair it's really easy to accidentally tap the back touchpad while using it. Accidentally tapping the touchscreen on a 2/3DS is near impossible.


Seeing that it's most often used for gestures, I've never _accidentally_ done anything using the rear touchpad. In fact, some games/apps allow disabling it altogether if you're really that accident prone.


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## zeello (Jul 8, 2014)

Arras said:


> To be fair it's really easy to accidentally tap the back touchpad while using it. Accidentally tapping the touchscreen on a 2/3DS is near impossible.


That is partly why I was going to get a 2000 instead of a 1000.

But vaguely it feels strange that I would have to. And I've never actually held a 2000 only a 1000 so it's sort of like gambling. This whole time I'm sure 2000 would be fine (or if push comes to shove, 1000, provided that I avoid games where reach touch is always on) but.... is it though?

Mind you I wouldn't be getting 2DS "instead" of a Vita, just that I wouldn't mind having either, and vaguely wouldn't mind not having either, but 2DS is cheaper. (although on second thought, it isn't really that much cheaper. Vita comes with memory and Borderlands, and if you substract $40 for Borderlands, then Vita is only $30 more.. yea scratch that I'd be crazy to get a 2DS)


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## Psionic Roshambo (Jul 13, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I think it's a sale, sorry.
> 
> *EDIT:* It would appear that the $25 offer is now over, the 16GB cards are now listed at $38.98, which is still a good dealio.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/16GB-PlayStation-Vita-Memory-Card/dp/B006JKASAC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403993994&sr=8-1&keywords=PSVita 16GB


 

Ouch.... I picked up a couple of 16GB MicroSD's for a little over 8 bucks each at Big Lots on a spur of the moment kind of thing. Nothing fantastic class 10 Sandisk's.

Sale might be over now, probably cost about 11 bucks.


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## Chris_Highwind (Jul 20, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Why would you not want to buy the best console of the next generation?



Maybe because I can't afford it?


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## emigre (Jul 20, 2014)

3DS>>> Vita.

Take that Foxi4Sony!


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 20, 2014)

emigre said:


> 3DS>>> Vita.
> 
> Take that Foxi4Sony!


 
omg ur logic is flawless tiem 4 $ony to giv up


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chris_Highwind said:


> Maybe because I can't afford it?


If you can afford a 3DS, you sure can afford a PSVita as in the grand scheme of things the two consoles cost about the same.


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## Chris_Highwind (Jul 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> If you can afford a 3DS, you sure can afford a PSVita as in the grand scheme of things the two consoles cost about the same.



No, I was responding to Guild McCommunist's question of why I didn't buy a PS4 instead of hoping for the Vita to become its own entity.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2014)

Chris_Highwind said:


> No, I was responding to Guild McCommunist's question of why I didn't buy a PS4 instead of hoping for the Vita to become its own entity.


Oh, fair enough then.

Well, I don't have a PS4 myself at the moment, but I'm definitely planning to buy one once they become more affordable and the library builds up. Until then, I'll keep on collecting PS4 Plus content to have stuff to play right out of the gate.


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## xwatchmanx (Jul 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Until then, I'll keep on collecting PS4 Plus content to have stuff to play right out of the gate.


 
You can do that?? How? I've been doing that with Vita games via the PS3 store, but I didn't know you could do that with PS4 games, too.


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## GameWinner (Jul 21, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> You can do that?? How? I've been doing that with Vita games via the PS3 store, but I didn't know you could do that with PS4 games, too.


You have to use the webstore to do it.
I have a backlog of PS4 games ready once I finally buy the console.


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## Bimmel (Jul 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> ​Thanks for reading the article and don't be afraid to ask _"Why Would you Want A..."_ - as the old proverb says, _"The one who asks questions doesn't lose his way"_. Cheers!


Hi Foxi!

Thank you for this fine article about the Vita. Some time ago I thought about buying one, but didn't inform me any further. Now you did it for me. 
After reading I feel partially enlightened - with some questions floating still in my mind.

There are 3 versions of the PSVita, so far so good. A Quick look on Amazon gives me only one version, even without a model number. There arent even colors to choose from .. did I do something wrong? The only difference I saw was a slim version of the vita in a bundle with Ratchet & Clank - is this the 2000er model then? No luck with finding the TV model either. Maybe it's all differrent for europe? Or maybe I'm just stupid on this one.

Without having seen the models - what actually are the differences (You spoke of different displays) ? And which one you would recommend to buy / did you buy?
What are the analog sticks like? Do they feel comfortabel to you? I admit that I don't understand the purpose of the rear touchpad when you also have a normal touchpad. To not block the screen? Does it even work properly? 

Are there more games like Tearway which use the cameras and stuff in a innovative way?

Does the video / voice chat also work as a part of the multitasking feature (Meaning talking while playing)?

_"PSVita's PSP Mode gives a little bit more juice to the games and applications than the original PSP"_

What is this "juice"?

(Example: I noticed while playing Final Fantasy VII on PS3 that the sound effect when you are selecting stuff in the menu is not original. It sounds so .. weird. Like the sound of casting a spell when those green shockwaves are on the ground. Don't know if it understandable what I mean.. but if these sounds were correct on Vita, that would be awesome.)

Sounds a bit troublesome to get access to all the backup stuff in the FAQ topic. Is it (Your opinion)?
Or would you recommend buying a PSP to play backups there?

How is the runtime of the Vita (hours) without charging?

And one last question: Is it possible to hear own music while playing? Never worked with PS3.

That would be my questions - hopefully not as dumb as I think they are. 
I would be grateful if you could take your time to answer - sorry for the grammar and stuff.

compliments

Bimmel


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## zeello (Jul 25, 2014)

Bimmel said:


> There are 3 versions of the PSVita, so far so good.


There are two versions. The regular model (1000) and slim model. (2000)

The regular model launched in both Wifi and 3G versions. I think the 3G version has since been discontinued, at least in the U.S.

In the U.S. the slim model is available only in the Borderlands 2 bundle.

The Ratchet bundle you saw on amazon might have been a PSP, not a Vita.



> Without having seen the models - what actually are the differences (You spoke of different displays) ? And which one you would recommend to buy / did you buy?


The regular model (1000) has an OLED display, while the slim (2000) has an LCD display.
The main difference in the display is that the OLED has slightly richer colors. Some also complain that the display on the slim model has a yellow tint.

There are other differences between the two models. The styling is different, and the slim model has a micro USB charging port while the original does not. Slim has about 1 hour longer battery life.



> I admit that I don't understand the purpose of the rear touchpad when you also have a normal touchpad. To not block the screen?


Games use the rear touchpad and front touchscreen for different things. So it doesn't really solve the screen-blocking issue.



> _"PSVita's PSP Mode gives a little bit more juice to the games and applications than the original PSP"_
> 
> What is this "juice"?


Vita has a filter to hide the pixels but some feel it looks worse this way. This feature can be disabled.
Also, I was told that Vita improves framerate of some PSP games. The PSP can do this too, but only if you hack it.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 25, 2014)

In regards to PSP juice I also meant that from what I've heard, the PSVita allows for a bit faster clock speed and memory frequency than a standard PSP, allowing for a bit  more fluid operation. It's not much, but it's something.

As for the three models I meant the PSVita 1000, PSVita 2000 and the PSVita TV, also known as the PlayStation TV. There are _some_ colours released in the west, but most are Japanese exclusive. I know for a fact that there are black and white PSVitas available in the US, but other colours can only be imported, I think. No biggie seeing that the system is region free, it's just an additional expense for style.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jul 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> In regards to PSP juice I also meant that from what I've heard, the PSVita allows for a bit faster clock speed and memory frequency than a standard PSP, allowing for a bit more fluid operation. It's not much, but it's something.
> 
> As for the three models I meant the PSVita 1000, PSVita 2000 and the PSVita TV, also known as the PlayStation TV. There are _some_ colours released in the west, but most are Japanese exclusive. I know for a fact that there are black and white PSVitas available in the US, but other colours can only be imported, I think. No biggie seeing that the system is region free, it's just an additional expense for style.


 

White ones aren't really that common nowadays since they were only included in the Assassin's Creed bundle.



Spoiler



I have one. I'll also get the white PS4 bundle.


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