# Sony Expanding It's Case - Looking For All PS3 Hackers



## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

The latest round of PSX-SCENE's Wikileaks-esque court documents reveal that Sony is expanding it's case beyond Geohot to include other well-known PS3 hackers. They are planning to subpoena various internet sites, including PSX-SCENE, YouTube, Twitter, PayPal and Slashdot in an attempt to locate new defendants such as Cantero, Peter, Bushing, Segher, hermesEOL, kmeaw, Waninkoko, grafchokolo and kakaroto.
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## Silent Storm (Feb 5, 2011)

Jesus Christ Sony.


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## machomuu (Feb 5, 2011)

Geez, even Nintendo isn't this aggressive  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## Law (Feb 5, 2011)

fuck yeah Sony


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## DeadLocked (Feb 5, 2011)

What's the point, you take one down and three more will appear to revolt, and they will be pissed.
Damaging more than helping themselves.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

They really don't want homebrew and backups do they?


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## machomuu (Feb 5, 2011)

I swear if anything happens to Waninkoko or hermes (or any of the other hackers), I don't think I'll be able to support Sony anymore.


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## Cuelhu (Feb 5, 2011)

this is really pissing me off. I'm tired of this whole "Sony vs hackers" thing.


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 5, 2011)

At this point, Microsoft is looking saintly.


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## Stevetry (Feb 5, 2011)

Go go Sony  shoot yourself in the foot


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## whoomph (Feb 5, 2011)

After the latest brickstravaganza, I was under the impression that Waninkoko was on Sony's side


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## Tonitonichopchop (Feb 5, 2011)

This strikes me as really immature on Sony's part.


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## DarkShadow96 (Feb 5, 2011)

I love how Sony is so aggressive towards hackers haha. It really shows that Sony cannot evade the whole CFW fiasco so they have to head to the root of all of it and attack them individually. 

Man, Sony is redunculas xD


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 5, 2011)

I wouldnt be surprised if they go after individual users at this point. Good thing I sold my PS3. :yay360:


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

Stevetry said:
			
		

> Go go Sony  shoot yourself in the foot


Yeah, because letting the console open for everything is the right asnwer. Because protecting their property and making sure that the companies will still make games for them is wrong, right?


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## GameWinner (Feb 5, 2011)

Why the hell can't they just do a ban-wave?!
Nevermind that, I see that this is beyond PSN!


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## BloodyFlame (Feb 5, 2011)

GameWinner said:
			
		

> Why the hell can't they just do a ban-wave?!



I don't think they can ban Geohot and other hackers from the internet.


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## Recorderdude (Feb 5, 2011)

BloodyFlame said:
			
		

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not without the help of ACTA and COICA anyway (which I'm sure they support)

They could call all three strikes at once


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## Langin (Feb 5, 2011)

hahahaha Sony is really getting mad! Nintendo and Microsoft are gods compared to Sony xD The Devil himself but then as company!


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## Snailface (Feb 5, 2011)

The odds of winning judgments in most of these international lawsuits is pretty low. However, the fear and intimidation created by this lawsuit-spamming will probably be effective in at least slowing down the hacker community's progress.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> (GameWinner @ Feb 5 2011, 08:49 AM) *
> Why the hell can't they just do a ban-wave?!


They'll do that too.


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## gamerjr (Feb 5, 2011)

Well i understand sony has to do something, and they have to do something hard and fast... sadly this is probably their only option besides dropping the PS3 completely. But sadly Geohot doesn't want to do illegal things... he just wants a new computer is all.


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## GundamXXX (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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Sony is just being childish about it. There is NOTHING they can do against hackers. If hackers cant go in public theyll go underground like in the 90's 
And dont worry about making games for Sony, the Wii has been hacked for how long? And we still get decent games on that

This is Sony going "Bwaaaaa we dont like to be the same bwaaa"

Seriously Sony, be happy it took this long and also, youve now put a whole lot of people against you. I for one will never buy another Sony product again, and sure they dont care about me as 1 person not buying stuff but when 50million boycott them itll change.


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

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Sorry, but Wii only got decent games on this last year (and almost all of them were first party). This year will have some good games too (again, first party).

People will not be against Sony. You guys think everyone on the world use pirated games, when this is way off... it'll not make a difference for them if they lose these type of clients, and who uses original games will understand why Sony has to protect the console.

Don't think that, just because Nintendo and Microsoft can't protect their consoles right and don't do almost anything to protect them now, that they are happy to see their consoles hacked like that, if they had the ways to punish people who did that they would do.

The only wrong people are the "hackers". And, considering Sony reaction (FW 3.56 with Whitelist and the removed bug that the hackers used to gain access to the private keys, pirates already don't have access to the PSN, and they have ways to ban them now), I wouldn't say they're crying, only you guys think that.


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## MeritsAlone (Feb 5, 2011)

Stevetry said:
			
		

> Go go Sony  shoot yourself in the foot



Correction: Head

theyre going way overboard with this.


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## Windaga (Feb 5, 2011)

It's a company trying to protect their machine and make money. I say go full speed ahead. 

Not that I expect them to be successful in stopping everyone they claimed, but it would definitely be interesting to see.


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## Alex221 (Feb 5, 2011)

Eff the NGP im getting the 3DS


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## DJPlace (Feb 5, 2011)

man Waninkoko was a good on the wii screen now he screwed himself over going to the dark side... man don't fuck with sony or there fuck you in the ass!! but sony is going lose many pepole this way i mean everything is hackable now even chuck norris can save sony now.


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## DryYoshi (Feb 5, 2011)

Dumb, dumb Sony.
You can never stop hackers, no matter what you do.


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## Maikel Steneker (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> People will not be against Sony. You guys think everyone on the world use pirated games, when this is way off... it'll not make a difference for them if they lose these type of clients, and who uses original games will understand why Sony has to protect the console.
> I use original games. I understand why Sony has to protect the PS3. What I don't understand is how this is protecting the console. You see, Sony messed up big time with the security of the PS3. Not only did they fail at using public-key cryptography, they also gave hackers a good reason to hack the PS3 - namely, removing a feature that was already available.
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> These hackers didn't do anything wrong. Sony stole a feature of them and they hacked their own console to re-enable it. By tracking down hackers and sueing them they're not helping anyone. They aren't helping themselves, because the system is already hacked. They're not helping legitimate customers, because the system is still wide open and Sony isn't doing anything about it.
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You can. It's really easy actually: you just implement a simple feature allowing people to install their own software on the device. The only thing you need to do then is... well, not remove the feature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sony has already shown that that will cause your system to remain unhacked for years, even with a very bad security system.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 5, 2011)

sony have fucking lost they've lost their fucking mind big time and if they keep this up every site, company and person is gonna hate them and there will be no ps4 cos sony will be locked up in the loony bin after going berserk and shooting any hacker they see with a shot gun!!

i see the future and sony won't be in it


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

Even if I agree that removing Other OS was a bad choice by Sony, I can still understand why they removed it(it would open space for illegal piracy and other consoles piracy with emulators).

Pirates will always use the excuse of homebrew to justify piracy, but we all know the most important thing when someone hack the console is the "backup manager" aka "look, I'm not paying for your games and I don't even care).

What didn't you understand? I just said Sony is a company that's trying to protect their product, they have all the right to protect it and will not lose clients this way (as people think), they'll not even lose the ones that they eventually will ban from PSN (only a matter of time to happen), because they'll still play pirated games on their consoles on single player.


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## machomuu (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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We bought the systems, it's our right to do what we want to them.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> What didn't you understand? I just said Sony is a company that's trying to protect their product,


your missing the big picture here this has nothing to do with piracy or hacking what sony has done/trying to do is say we have the right to do whatever the hell we want that means your legal and consumer rights are now void we say what you can and can't do even though you have bought the product. and this is just unacceptable if sony gets away with this other companies could follow meaning freedom of speech whatever will no longer exist!


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## KingVamp (Feb 5, 2011)

Why do you guys assume hackers really just want piracy over homebrew? 

It could be true that hackers only do homebrew and maybe test games.


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## Maikel Steneker (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Even if I agree that removing Other OS was a bad choice by Sony, I can still understand why they removed it(it would open space for illegal piracy and other consoles piracy with emulators).
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> Pirates will always use the excuse of homebrew to justify piracy, but we all know the most important thing when someone hack the console is the "backup manager" aka "look, I'm not paying for your games and I don't even care).
> It's ironic that you say pirates just use homebrew as an excuse to justify console hacking and at the same time you say Other OS enables piracy. Other OS didn't enable piracy any more than a regular PC does; it's just an excuse Sony uses to remove it. Other OS had no access to the full PS3. Running anything graphical on it was pretty much impossible. At the same time, any PC can run Gameboy, N64, PS1, PS2 and even GameCube and Wii emulators.
> ...


That's a very simplistic view. First of all, you assume that someone who pirates games will never buy a game and will never spend any money on the PlayStation Network. That is simply not true. I know lots of people who pirate all their games, but buy the ones they like. You may not agree with their behaviour, but Sony stills makes money from them.

Secondly, not everyone who wants to run Linux will pirate games. You like to think that's the case, but it really isn't. Running homebrew opens up the device for a lot of uses. I don't see why any customer would be happy if the possibility of running homebrew would be erased.

Finally, the most important point: what Sony does won't help legitimate customers. What Sony should be doing now is trying to keep the damage under control. PSN should remain a hack-free network. I want to be able to start a multiplayer game without running into all kinds of strange hacks; that's why I pay for a PS3 and my games. If Sony keeps nagging hackers instead of solving problems, they will lose at least one legitimate customer: me.


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## TheDarkSeed (Feb 5, 2011)

It doesn't seem like sony will be taking this lying down. What do they hope to accomplish with this backlash? 

It seems to me like the "we won't know until we try tactic" They're dumping money from their bottomless bank in hopes that they silence a few, thus softening the blow to the use of "circumvention devices" on their console. It could also be intimidation and warning for anyone who wants to join in on the homebrew scene for the ps3

With that being said, I still like rooting for the underdog. Go Sony!


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 5, 2011)

These actions should now make everyone realize that they have no way of banning users from PSN besides constant firmware updates ala PSP.


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

Maikel Steneker said:
			
		

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That's exactly what they're start to do, banning hackers from PSN. They can't control the offline piracy at this point, at least they HAVE to keep them off from online multiplayer.

Nintendo banned R4 from some countries too, all the companies do that, (Apple, Microsoft, etc), and will continue to do, even if you guys don't want.

@TwinRetro
They are already banning people on Black Ops, I'm sure they can ban people from PSN too. Expect the ban hammer later this year.


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## Zetta_x (Feb 5, 2011)

The best way to prevent piracy is to not make a console at all =P

---

Along the lines of, the number one cause of divorce is marriage


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## TheDestroyer (Feb 5, 2011)

They practically needs to change their trade name to 'Sueny'. I know its old but I mean it. lol But anyway, I hope next time hackers work underground and just release the cfw when its fully done so Sueny won't see its happening lol.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 5, 2011)

Damnit sony all I wanted to do was hack some games and shit....
Maybe play some emu's ...


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## VashTS (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm done.  Sony will never get another dime from me.  This is too radical.  I just purchased a nice Sony bravia, I'm going to convince my wife to take it back and get a different TV.  

This is the last straw and I think we should start a boycott.  They need to drop this, we get it they want to sue people, that is not the way to stop the hacking of the ps3.  It's already done, move on and patch the holes.  Sometimes as a business you have to take a loss and call it a day and move forward.


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## Raiser (Feb 5, 2011)

Sheaperd121 said:
			
		

> They really don't want homebrew and backups do they?


Are you serious? Do you know how many people hack their PS2/PSP/PS3 (as well as other devices) to pirate games? Very few people compared to that number actually do it for homebrew and backups.

Although I admire Sony's effort to protect their system(s), they are being too radical. Why gather all the hate which would only affect future sales.


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## GeekyGuy (Feb 5, 2011)

Sheaperd121 said:
			
		

> They really don't want homebrew and backups do they?



You're being purposely obtuse, right?


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

At this point, Sonys just trying to keep a cup punched in with holes filled with water. In other words. It's only going to get worse at this point.  on the piracy issue. My opinion is that people who pirate games were not planning on buying it in the first place, thus, it shouldn't really be  viewed as a lost. And the people who say that "oh piracy wouldn't be a problem if Sony would just let people do what they want! Thats bull, people can run anything they want on a pc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what platform has the most piracy/torrents?


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## Maikel Steneker (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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Then why aren't they doing that? Why are they sueing hackers instead of solving problems?


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## omatic (Feb 5, 2011)

This isn't surprising to me in the least. They're trying to scare current and future PS3 hackers into submission while this is still young. This shows that they know how badly screwed they are with this security flaw / key release, as the reaction when the PSP was first opened up to homebrew wasn't nearly as strong.

In any case, this is a waste of money for Sony. While a (relatively) few people will modify their PS3s, many won't out of fear, laziness, lack of need for it, or ignorance. At the same time, the group they're alienating are seen to them as either insignificant, or worth losing over "winning" this battle.

I'm not going to hack my PS3 yet, or possibly at all, simply because I don't feel the need to. I've got emulators on 4 different platforms, I've never used my PS3 for Linux, and thanks to some December sales, I've got enough games to last me a while. At the same time, these actions by Sony further my disappointment with them.

At the same time, I really can't think of any good alternatives for Sony at this point. The security breach is heavy - there's no firmware update that'll save them from this one. It's too late to reach out to the hackers to try and work something out, as the internets already has the keys. Publicly embracing / acknowledging this would make the compromised security (and benefits for the end user) even more well known, something that they clearly don't want. Maybe they should just open up their PS3 platform entirely at this point.


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## The Pi (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't know why everyone is so mad. Anyone who thought Sony would do fuck all or just give people a slap on the wrist is retarded.

Sony in a business, profit maximisation is one of the main objectives of all businesses. So Sony don't want anyone pirating. The whole "we only want homebrew" idea doesn't really cut it.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

GeekyGuy said:
			
		

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Well, the way I feel about this is I think they stop now before they do anymore damage to themselves. I can see why they would go after piracy, but most of the devs never meant piracy. Even geohot made his firmware so that no one could backup their games.


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## Raiser (Feb 5, 2011)

The Pi said:
			
		

> I don't know why everyone is so mad. Anyone who thought Sony would do fuck all or just give people a slap on the wrist is retarded.
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> Sony in a business, profit maximisation is one of the main objectives of all businesses. So Sony don't want anyone pirating. The whole "we only want homebrew" idea doesn't really cut it.


Completely agreed.
Although I feel bad for those that do want homebrew, it's just not what a majority of hackers want.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

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I agree also. If anything, the homebrew I would love to see on the ps3 is maybe n64 emu or maybe ps1 emu, and I mean a ps1 emu that works with 3.55 CFW


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

I laugh @ Sony... Sony sues the crap out of everyone and Microsoft has a cup of Joe and muffins with them....


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## VentusVanitas (Feb 5, 2011)

At least Sony aren't backing down.

Nintendo and Microsoft lost their balls to the hackers.


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## .Chris (Feb 5, 2011)

VentusVanitas said:
			
		

> At least Sony aren't backing down.
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> Nintendo and Microsoft lost their balls to the hackers.


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## NiGHtS (Feb 5, 2011)

Sony gained The Sword of Self Respect!

Balls +9000.


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

VentusVanitas said:
			
		

> At least Sony aren't backing down.
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Wrong, Microsoft actually  wants to solve the problem. Not like Sony sueing 30 year olds who live in their mom's basement


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## m3rox (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm literally laughing right now, due to the people in this thread claiming homebrew is the reason they want their PS3's hacked.

We all know you pirate, and that's the only reason to hack a console, really.  Tell me what PS3 homebrew is worth hacking your console?


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## chyyran (Feb 5, 2011)

Sony gained the Sword of Consumer law dissatisfaction!

Profits -9000
Fans -9000
Customer Outrage +9000





 +9000




			
				VentusVanitas said:
			
		

> At least Sony aren't backing down.
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> Nintendo and Microsoft lost their balls to the hackers.



Microsoft is trying to encourage Homebrew developing for their systems. They're a multi billionaire company that understands one thing, Hackers are good for the system, but Pirates aren't.
Hackers =/= Pirates

http://horriblefanfare.com/2010/01/20/pand...modern-console/

Sony has to understand that.


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## NiGHtS (Feb 5, 2011)

ron975 said:
			
		

> Sony gained the Sword of Consumer law dissatisfaction!
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I use CFW too but, let's be reasonable here, at least Sony are doing something about it. You only have to take one look at the PSP's vulnerability to see why they're doing it.


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

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The only thing microsoft did was the ban hammer. The PS3 was hacked just some months ago, just give them time and we'll see the same thing happening.

The problem on this case is that they can't do anything for the singleplayer piracy now. Just like Microsoft.

EDIT: I still don't see any customer raging, besides the people who use CFW. =)


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> I'm literally laughing right now, due to the people in this thread claiming homebrew is the reason they want their PS3's hacked.
> 
> We all know you pirate, and that's the only reason to hack a console, really.  Tell me what PS3 homebrew is worth hacking your console?



Agreed, I don't buy a 300$ game system to download a program I'll play twice and delete.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> I'm literally laughing right now, due to the people in this thread claiming homebrew is the reason they want their PS3's hacked.
> 
> We all know you pirate, and that's the only reason to hack a console, really.  Tell me what PS3 homebrew is worth hacking your console?


I can think of plenty homebrew apps that I use on it. I play gba on it, snes, and I wish I could use the ps1 emu, though I will have to wait for it to be working on there. Even Linux is coming back on it, and I may mess with it when it better.

And for saying that that's the only reason people hack consoles, then why do I see soooo many homebrew apps on hacked consoles?


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## chyyran (Feb 5, 2011)

It's time to decide.


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## SPH73 (Feb 5, 2011)

This is it. The final nail in Sony's coffin.

ApocalyPS3 Now.

Sony goons are going to come to your house and smash your hacked PS3. Then they'll take you into custody and no one will ever hear from you again.


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

ron975 said:
			
		

> It's time to decide.


No, it's not.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

ron975 said:
			
		

> It's time to decide.


Is there a middle part? I'm still deciding on if I don't like them or not.


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

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And you legally own each and everyone of those gba and snes games?


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Feb 5, 2011)

ron975 said:
			
		

> Sony gained the Sword of Consumer law dissatisfaction!
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-.- OtherOS did exactly that then they removed it because Geohot found a hole


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 5, 2011)

Threaten Sony by not buying the Sony system in the future at all. Spread to your friends and family so we will teach Sony the lesson.


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## darkranboria (Feb 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> We bought the systems, it's our right to do what we want to them.



I bought this DVD, it's my right to make 10,000 copies and sell them cheap to make a profit, not to mention that I have the right to upload it to the internet and also say that I'm the one that made it.


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## Wombo Combo (Feb 5, 2011)

I hope all the people who were involved in PS3 hacking has a lot of money to hire a good lawyer cause they are going to need it.


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## SPH73 (Feb 5, 2011)

Wombo Combo said:
			
		

> I hope all the people who were involved in PS3 hacking has a lot of money to hire a good lawyer cause they are going to need it.



>Implying Sony is going to sue everyone

And if they did, it would be the PR blunder of the century.

Oh what am I talking about? Sony has pulled nothing but PR blunders for the past 6 years.

edit: Hey Wombo, you do know that t****** in your profile image has AIDS right? (tl:dr = linetrap has aids.)


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

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I bet there's lots of people that don't own them. I thinks its kind of hard for people to find such old games. Heck, there's even flash carts for the snes that are being made. Like the RetroZone SNES PowerPak.


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

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http://m.engadget.com/default/article.do?a...&postPage=1  this is what I was talking about.


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

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Even if they want homebrew developers, they'll have to control them to not make homebrews that affect illegal aspects (aka Emulators). I don't know how Android have emulators on their store...


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## Wombo Combo (Feb 5, 2011)

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I meant the main people they are going against. 

Nope + I cant get aids from fapping so I don't care lol. (if its true)


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

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Cause Emulators sell like hotcakes and Google gets a piece of the profit. Emulators are not illegal... but hey! You can even download roms from the Android market!


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## m3rox (Feb 5, 2011)

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Oh yeah, totally hard to find.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksi...-All-Categories

And GBA games are still sold in places like Gamestop and EBGames (not to mention the other smaller stores that are locally owned that deal in many of the older systems).

Greed will eventually be the pirate's downfall.


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## Joe88 (Feb 5, 2011)

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its the top rated TV by consumer reports


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

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That's not the problem I was talking about. I'm talking about how Microsoft is handling the windows phone 7 hacking compared to Sony sueing over hacking.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

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Not all gba games are still for sale at gamestop or ebgames. And not all snes games are still out there. And I would like to mess with the game sometimes as well. Like mario rom hacks, or maybe a translation of a game.


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## m3rox (Feb 5, 2011)

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Nice try, but my statement stands firm.

Tell me of a game you can't find on ebay, and I'll find it on ebay.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

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And tell me if that game still even works if I buy it from ebay?


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

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Don't worry about it dude, illegal or not. You arnt going to get in trouble.  Heck, I have 50+ gba and snes games on my phone.


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## m3rox (Feb 5, 2011)

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lol


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## Maikel Steneker (Feb 5, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> Tell me of a game you can't find on ebay, and I'll find it on ebay.


Sounds like a challenge to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What about Super Meat Boy?


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

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Oh, don't worry I'm not afarid of getting in trouble. I try and buy most of what I can. Heck, I just bought a ps2 two months ago.


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## m3rox (Feb 5, 2011)

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> ...



There are no physical copies of that that were ever in circulation within the general public.  challenge = moot.


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## Fireballo (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm glad Sony keeps reminding why I've never legally purchased one of their games.


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## Cuelhu (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Quietlyawesome94 said:
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there are A LOT of emulators to download on Linux repositories.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> Maikel Steneker said:
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You know that he was joking right?


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

Fireballo said:
			
		

> I'm glad Sony keeps reminding why I've never legally purchased one of their games.



LMAO


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 5, 2011)

Arguing that emulation and ROMS are piracy (at least on older systems) is retarded. To be completely legitimate, you would have to find a working legitimate system, working controllers, not to mention the games. If you can find working games that's great, but most likely if it has a battery, it will be dead, and some games are stupid expensive.

There is no reason not to emulate. The games are no longer produced, and even if you bought them on eBay, Niether Nintendo, nor the developers are getting any revenue off of that, so you can't use that as an excuse.

IMO, if I can't buy the game new, emulation is the next best thing.

PS: Let me know where I can buy a copy of Starfox 2.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Arguing that emulation and ROMS are piracy (at least on older systems) is retarded. To be completely legitimate, you would have to find a working legitimate system, working controllers, not to mention the games. If you can find working games that's great, but most likely if it has a battery, it will be dead, and some games are stupid expensive.
> 
> There is no reason not to emulate. The games are no longer produced, and even if you bought them on eBay, Niether Nintendo, nor the developers are getting any revenue off of that, so you can't use that as an excuse.
> 
> IMO, if I can't buy the game new, emulation is the next best thing.


This^ Is why I emulate.

Also, good explanation Retro.

Edit: I think I saw Starfox 2 once, but then I heard it was bootlegged. It was on ebay, but bootlegged.


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Feb 5, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Arguing that emulation and ROMS are piracy (at least on older systems) is retarded. To be complet
> 
> ely legitimate, you would have to find a working legitimate system, working controllers, not to mention the games. If you can find working games that's great, but most likely if it has a battery, it will be dead, and some games are stupid expensive.
> 
> ...



Yeah me to, I never got to play paper Mario 64.. played it all the way through and loved it. Probably never would have played it except for emulators.

EDIT; just downloaded starfox 2, it wouldn't load on snesoid!


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## Eckin (Feb 5, 2011)

You can see how desperate Sony is about that security breach. They can't do anything about it and they know it. This realization made 'em so mad, that now they wanna punish everyone they find for it. I wonder how many of their own got fired after this whole mess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Also nice thread about emulation guys, ótimo trabalho Maedhros por desvirtuar o tópico pra tentar esconder que você tá errado em relação à isso não fazer a mínima diferença pros consumidores legitimos OU pra o atual dano na imagem e segurança do PS3


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## machomuu (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't feel like I'm getting the full experience through emulation.  I don't have an NES or SNES, so I'm gonna go and buy one.

Also, isn't this a bit off-topic?


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

> You can see how desperate Sony is about that security breach. They can't do anything about it and they know it. This realization made 'em so mad, that now they wanna punish everyone they find for it. I wonder how many of their own got fired after this whole mess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is what I got when I translated it.


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## Jamstruth (Feb 5, 2011)

Quietlyawesome94 said:
			
		

> EDIT; just downloaded starfox 2, it wouldn't load on snesoid!


try zSNES. its loads on that for sure.


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> I don't feel like I'm getting the full experience through emulation.  I don't have an NES or SNES, so I'm gonna go and buy one.
> 
> Also, isn't this a bit off-topic?


I wish I still had my n64, but it broke.

Anyone know of a good one to buy and where?


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

> You can see how desperate Sony is about that security breach. They can't do anything about it and they know it. This realization made 'em so mad, that now they wanna punish everyone they find for it. I wonder how many of their own got fired after this whole mess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Post in english on an english forum.

I don't see how I'm wrong about anything I've posted so far. I don't even wanted to talk about emulation. The only difference this whole situation makes to the legitimate users is that they'll have to download more updates because of the security breachs.


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## zeromac (Feb 5, 2011)

Protecting their console is not going overboard


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## Nujui (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Eckin said:
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He said this (I think)
great job by misrepresenting Maedhros the topic to try to hide that you're wrong about the answer does not make any difference pros legitimate consumers OR the current damage to the image and safety of the PS3

I understand what you mean about updating. You're very right that it can be annoying for people that do update.


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## machomuu (Feb 5, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

> Protecting their console is not going overboard


The way they're doing it is.


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## zeromac (Feb 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> zeromac said:
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So if i broke into your house at night and stole all your belongings, you wouldn't call the cops?


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> zeromac said:
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We can argue that.

Is release private keys considered illegal?? That's what happened. Maybe we can argue that revealing the method to obtain these keys isn't illegal... IMO it is as illegal as releasing to the public a method to discover passwords on this forum or credit cards passwords. But I don't know US laws to make an affirmation.


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 5, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
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I would call the cops, but I wouldnt sue the crowbar company, the company that he got the mask from, and the company that made the car he got away in.


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> zeromac said:
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Sony isn't suying Geohot's PC brand, neither the company that made the tools he used... they're sueing Geohot himself because he released private information.


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## machomuu (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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I would argue, but I responded to one who stated an opinion as fact, therefore I did the same.
Plus, by the scenario you've given, it would seem that Sony instead grabbed a bat and started beating everyone in the house with it, not just the robber.  See?  They didn't call the cops, they took the matter into their own hands and went on a rampage.


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## SPH73 (Feb 5, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

> Protecting their console is not going overboard



Attacking the consumer is...

They've gone too far at this point. They've made themselves the enemy of the consumer one too many times.

$600 console, racist ads, attacking religion, ripping off the wii, chad warden viral, microtransactions, etc, etc, etc


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## Maedhros (Feb 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
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Sorry, but in Sony case, the only cops they can call is the justice. And on this silly scenary we are building, the other aren't the robber itself, but they helped, so we can say they are accomplices.

@SPH73
You talk like these things you said really made people mad or were too serious or that Sony is Satan itself.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 5, 2011)

Tonitonichopchop said:
			
		

> This strikes me as really immature on Sony's part.


Immature? I would say chilling. If they manage to make their case, there's a possibility that the homebrew community could be in danger.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 5, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> or that Sony is Satan itself.


no i would say their more like Hitler meaning do as we say or be wiped out!


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## TheDarkSeed (Feb 5, 2011)

I can never forgive those bastards!


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## Maikel Steneker (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Is release private keys considered illegal?? That's what happened. Maybe we can argue that revealing the method to obtain these keys isn't illegal...
> In most countries in Europe (and probably the United States too) releasing private keys like this is considered legal. There's no way to copyright a number or hex value. That said, it is a bit of a grey area.
> 
> 
> ...


You have a point there. Geohot released the master key. You could argue that's only a tool to develop homebrew (and run pirated software) and that releasing this is also legal, but let's not go into that.

By this logic, sueing Geohot would be a logical thing to do. However, sueing any of the other hackers wouldn't make any sense. After all, they didn't release any keys - they chose not to, because they didn't want the system to get flooded with pirated software. Instead, they gave information on how the security system works and released some code to demonstrate that. This would be the tool to access the protected information, comparable to the tools needed to get in someone's house. Sueing anyone but Geohot doesn't make any sense and is, by my standards, completely immoral.


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 6, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> Maikel Steneker said:
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Nah, you said "a game"; you didn't say it had to exist in a physical form. The challenge isn't moot, you just lost because you weren't strict enough with the criteria. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






Anyway, trying to protect your console is perfectly reasonable, and all well and good, but crumbs, Sony are going way over the top with this, it seems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks like they're willing to sue everyone and his mother over this.
What I got after reading the start of this thread and my knowledge of what's been happening so far is that it seems like a case of:

*Sony:* _"We're so proud of our hack-proof console; just look, we made the only seventh-generation console that is still completely unhacked."_
*Hacker:* _"Actually, it's quite easy to hack now I've had a look. See, *zip-zip*, done."_
*Sony:* _"....BAAWWWWWWW I HATE YOU I'M GONNA SUE YOU AND ALL YOUR FRIENDS NOW ;____;"_[/p]

So yeah, protection of your business interests is fine, but not when you seem to take it as harshly as they are now and going after everyone that was even remotely involved. I hope this doesn't hurt the hackers too much. It's like the AACS controversy again, though only with very slight differences.


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## MigueelDnd (Feb 6, 2011)

Sheaperd121 said:
			
		

> ...*hermesEOL*, *Waninkoko*...
> [/p]
> Crap...
> 
> QUOTE(machomuu @ Feb 5 2011, 06:18 PM) I swear if anything happens to Waninkoko or hermes (or any of the other hackers), I don't think I'll be able to support Sony anymore.


Exactly this, I was thinking on buying the NGP, but if things go this bad and something happens to Waninkoko and hermes, I'm not gonna buy it :/


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## Officer Delibird (Feb 6, 2011)

I like how Sony is only worried about the PS3 haha


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## SPH73 (Feb 6, 2011)

Officer Delibird said:
			
		

> I like how Sony is only worried about the PS3 haha



Especially ironic when you consider SONY stealthfully used and promoted "homebrew" to push sales of the PSP. There was a time when "homebrew" was the biggest draw on the PSP. Sony didn't care how they got to the top, they just wanted to move hardware. F*** the devs. You could actually learn how to install CFW right on the Official PlayStation message boards. And there were many tutorials written by people who were themselves actual Sony employees.

Yes, you heard what I said. They actively encouraged the CFW scene until it blew up in their faces. Lots of smaller devs eventually complained, but not until the damage was done. If someone could prove this the Jailbreak and PS3 hackers could use this in their defense. Its called "citing precedent."


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## Oveneise (Feb 6, 2011)

Sonys getting whats coming to them. This is what they get when they have crappy security on their console, and then saying its unhackable.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 6, 2011)

Okay, going after GeoHot, a lot of people will support Sony. But come on. Going after EVERY hacker? Anybody who says "don't worry, people will still love sony, they won't not buy their console again" is stupid. This little temper tantrum Sony is throwing at everybody, is really pushing A LOT of people away.

Instead of working with the hack to make it work for you, like "Hmm... they already got homebrew going.. what if we gave OtherOS and let them make Homebrew for a channel. Like XBLA Indie." Instead they didn't want to bother with any of that and got butthurt that someone was actually getting the full use out of their console without Sony giving them the tools too, and they're suing everybody?! Even the people who had nothing to do with the hack in the first place?

NEWSFLASH SONY: Homebrew isn't illegal. And any judge who doesn't know this, deserves to be taken away from the case.


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## antwill (Feb 6, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
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You Godwin's Law'd this thread already?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Also on topic: The only people who really care about this are the pirates and others doing stuff on a console that it was never meant for. Anyone who gets upset over this is someone who's using the console for something it's not meant for. Plenty of people who just use their PS3 for blu-rays and gaming, will not care at all about these court cases or hacking the console, and the only reason they'd care about hacking is when people are cheating online. And even then they are going to support Sony stopping them from being able to.


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## Windaga (Feb 6, 2011)

Just a quick notice: Sony is a MASSIVE company. Even if they were to stop selling games and game consoles period, they'll still be a huge mega company. They do music, movies, tv's, cameras, and all kinds of electronic devices. Even if they were to lose EVERY single PSP, PS3, and potential PSP2 customer, they'll still have a HUGE consumer base, and still rake in MASSIVE amounts of money. I doubt any music or movie producer will stop buying Sony products because they tried to protect their profits, as a business. Just saying.


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## Maedhros (Feb 6, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Officer Delibird said:
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Of course I'll believe this bullshit without a proof.


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## machomuu (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> SPH73 said:
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Wow, reading is fun  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## Maedhros (Feb 6, 2011)

I still don't get it.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 6, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Bladexdsl said:
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damn right! as i said earlier this has nothing to do with piracy or hacking what sony has done/trying to do is say we have the right to do whatever the hell we want that means your legal and consumer rights are now void we say what you can and can't do even though you have bought the product. and this is just unacceptable


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## Joe88 (Feb 6, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Okay, going after GeoHot, a lot of people will support Sony. But come on. Going after EVERY hacker? Anybody who says "don't worry, people will still love sony, they won't not buy their console again" is stupid. This little temper tantrum Sony is throwing at everybody, is really pushing A LOT of people away.
> 
> Instead of working with the hack to make it work for you, like "Hmm... they already got homebrew going.. what if we gave OtherOS and let them make Homebrew for a channel. Like XBLA Indie." Instead they didn't want to bother with any of that and got butthurt that someone was actually getting the full use out of their console without Sony giving them the tools too, and they're suing everybody?! Even the people who had nothing to do with the hack in the first place?
> 
> NEWSFLASH SONY: Homebrew isn't illegal. And any judge who doesn't know this, deserves to be taken away from the case.


They can become an indie developer for sony, like the indie company that made flower and flow

however like 98% of the "homebrew" released on ps3 is either game loaders to run pirated games, emulators to run pirated roms, and some ftp apps to move pirated games to bypass the FAT32 limitation

there is very little original stuff


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## MelodieOctavia (Feb 6, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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Well, that was a load of bullshit. Maybe you should check a few sources before you pound away at the keys like you were stating fact. There is plenty of original homebrew for the PS3, it's just the loaders, the FTP programs, and the emulators that get all the attention.


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## Joe88 (Feb 6, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Joe88 said:
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I have looked and once again there is barely anything

tetris, pong, breakout, AsbestOS, Luaplayer, a .wad loader, and a game called untitled project


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## antwill (Feb 6, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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Tetris and pong aren't very original at all either.


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## neotank19 (Feb 6, 2011)

To me it appears to more of a threatening tactic "we're gonna sue you!" They want to intimidate the hacking community and scare people off. As others have said this will not work, it will lead to more people creating hacks.

I highly doubt they want to take any of this to trial, as all it takes is one hacker, pirate, homebrew using person on the jury to set a precedent that leads to sony (or any other video company) being made fools of.

They want to drag it out and make the hackers waste money on lawyers, as well the worry and stress. It's an evil tactic. This is how I see it anyways.


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## nando (Feb 6, 2011)

i said hermes would get hunted by sony if he went to the ps3 scene.


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## wchill (Feb 6, 2011)

Idiots. They can't sue EVERYONE. This is only an intimidation tactic.
Anger the hackers, they're going to lash back massively. 4chan will probably be on this too soon.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 6, 2011)

wchill said:
			
		

> 4chan will probably be on this too soon.


they already are


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## omgpwn666 (Feb 6, 2011)

If Sony was a women, I would have a boner.

Seriously, sadly this is what needs to be done. Put yourself in Sony's shoes, what would you do if hackers were creating hacks that give people free games on the system you created. They're putting their foot down while there aren't many hackers to give away hacks. And if this does work out, I would love to see another hacker brave enough to hack the PS3 again, doubt it would happen. I like to see them use their power, and for that, I'm excited.


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## Wombo Combo (Feb 6, 2011)

Hopefully this wont make future or current hackers afraid to take on other consoles.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 6, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> I like to see them use their power, and for that, I'm excited.


the same thing is happening with both nintendos and m$ consoles but do they act like a lunatic suing everyone?!


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## SPH73 (Feb 6, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> If Sony was a women, I would have a boner.
> 
> Seriously, sadly this is what needs to be done. Put yourself in Sony's shoes, what would you do if hackers were creating hacks that give people free games on the system you created. They're putting their foot down while there aren't many hackers to give away hacks. And if this does work out, I would love to see another hacker brave enough to hack the PS3 again, doubt it would happen. I like to see them use their power, and for that, I'm excited.



Corporate ass kissing.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Lawsuits never stopped people from downloading music and movies, even when the penatlies were in the millions of dollars.

Tactics like this only embolden the hackers and inspires other freedom loving individuals to follow in their footsteps. Hardball tactics (lawsuits) create an unending guerilla war the big corporation can never win. (Vietnam) It also poisons the brand associated with the lawsuit. And lets face it, the PlayStation brand isn't as strong as it was back in the 90s. (NGP wasn't announced at PlayStation Portable 2. PlayStation Phone is called "Xperia Play." The world you grew up in is gone.)


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## Fluto (Feb 6, 2011)

wow this all started with a little usb ...


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## GundamXXX (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> GundamXXX said:
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Wii had verious decent games in the last few years, and not nearly all of them first party so you are wrong there (Want examples? SWTFU, Tiger Woods, DBZ games, SMG1) and this just proves that devs will invest into a hacked console, thank you for proving my point even further

When I say Im going against Sony I mean I will not buy ANYTHING from them so that means that my new TV will not be Sony, my new MP3 player will not be Sony etc etc.
Anyone that asks me for advice, which are alot of people, I will tel them Sony is the worst product and they will continue to tell everyone else that which in turn means Sony loses out on about 100 potential sales. If 10000 people think like me then 10000x100=1000000 sales lost. Trust me Sony will care because its not sales just lost, not its sales a competitor wins. Its simple business

Nintendo and Microsoft both realize its fighting against the world and decide to say "You know what? Fuck it, let them be its too late to stop them fully" 
They try to stop the lazy ones and unknowing ones with firmware updates and succeed probably in excluding about 10% of the hacked consoles because people dont know how to update their CFW

And the hackers arent wrong, they didnt touch the damn thing untill Sony decided to remove vital functions. It doesnt matter that nobody used them, point is that Sony removed something that was an essential part of the device. And Sony is being a crybaby, I mean why else do this? I dont agree with the hacking of PSN and the fact that Sony fights against that I can understand and even support but sueing someone? Its like emptying the ocean with a spoon, futile


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## omatic (Feb 6, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Officer Delibird said:
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That doesn't make sense when you look at how often Sony pushed out firmware updates that did nothing but patch a security hole in a previous firmware, and released new hardware that made previous hacks unusable. If what you describe was Sony's way of doing things, they'd have allowed you to get on PSN without the latest firmware, instead of needing to run plugins with your CFW if you don't have the latest OFW. THEY didn't promote homebrew or emulators or hacks as a way of selling hardware. It just happens that the best part of the hardware for some was the ability to run homebrew. Car manufacturers don't use the fact that you can use one of their cars to commit a crime, but some people will get one because of that very fact. By your logic, they stealthily use and promote criminal activity to push sales of their cars. 

How do you know the people posting tutorials on installing CFW were actually Sony employees? If you're talking about moderators on forums, they could be (and probably were) volunteers that weren't employed. Just because someone says they work for Sony on the internets doesn't make it true. And citing precedent involves a previous JUDICIAL CASE, not allegations against the plaintiff. If you look at Sony's actions, they actively tried to hinder CFW development. It would have saved them man hours and money if they'd left it alone entirely, but they clearly didn't, despite a lack of success.


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## shakirmoledina (Feb 6, 2011)

i'm rooting for u sony! lets see how successful u can be, considering u wanna go thru psx-scene, youtube, twitter... man!
do they really fear piracy tht much or is it tht they are predicting tht further research will break apart the system in an unrecoverable way... i really feel sony is seeing something


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## Nobunaga (Feb 6, 2011)

Well this sucks Sony is seeking for hackers most of them just helped others :/ 
Well i hope they won t arrest anyone


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 6, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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If they become an indie developer, that means they have to follow by Sony's rules, which in turn, will be a risk. Had they become Indie developers, they could risk getting fucked by Sony later on. This way, they can just follow their own rules, make whatever they want, and release games, without the fear of Sony saying "yeah, new policy do this".


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## KingAsix (Feb 6, 2011)

I got one thing to say....

Sony shut the hell up and stop bitchin...Damn!
Nintendo doesn't even fight hacking this hard and there's like 5+ hacks for the Wii if I'm not mistaken


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## omgpwn666 (Feb 6, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> omgpwn666 said:
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 - Bladexdsl

Nintendo and Microsoft are afraid to fight a battle they may lose. And so we're all clear, I have a Wii and a 360, no PS3. Just so everything I say does not seem so bias.


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## Maedhros (Feb 6, 2011)

I can't believe how many people can't even make a proper argument on this forum. =/


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## Midna (Feb 6, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> SPH73 said:
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...And you do it anyway?


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## Sterling (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> I can't believe how many people can't even make a proper argument on this forum. =/


It seems you're among them. Seriously.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Feb 6, 2011)

....it's like Sony has become the 3rd Reich....trying to enforce a "Final Solution" for PS3 hacking...they think they can make it completely disappear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sony has to be the biggest and most spoiled pussy I have seen in a company...they just can't lose can they?


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## Maedhros (Feb 6, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm annoying, but at least I don't try to make claims or state facts without a base.

EDIT: In other word "hurr, durr, sony is so dumb, I will never buy Sony again, even if I never had one in the first place, hurr, durr. I liek ms and ninty because they don't care about my backup launcher homebrew, hurr durr"


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## TM2-Megatron (Feb 6, 2011)

lol.  Good luck with that, Sony.

I guess it would be kind of aggravating if, just when their console started actually making some money as opposed to the years it spent as a drain on the company, a hack is released.

Still, this is only going to alienate consumers.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 6, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> Nintendo and Microsoft are afraid to fight a battle they may lose.


bullshit they realize that pirating only takes up a very small percentage of their profits and people will still buy games no matter what they have more brains than sony trying to control the net and wipe out pirates! pirating is everywhere you cannot stop it...EVER and your only making yourself look like a fool if you do like sony is now sony should be happy with what they have their still making billions


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## Magmorph (Feb 6, 2011)

Has anyone looked at what Sony wants to subpoena? They want info on who accessed Hotz's website and on who viewed a YouTube video Hotz made.


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## Maz7006 (Feb 6, 2011)

they're sending a more underlying msg with this i.e. stop sharing your hacks 

i bet you all thse CFW ppl are probably now gna disappear and basically this gives a warning to everyone else to not even think out it i.e. so much for your PS3 scene jeez.

_*snip_


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## DiscostewSM (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm sure many people think of Sony in this way, and if not, well.....now they do.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 6, 2011)

Magmorph said:
			
		

> Has anyone looked at what Sony wants to subpoena? They want info on who accessed Hotz's website and on who viewed a YouTube video Hotz made.
> 
> Good luck with that, because I'm pretty sure that's not legal. Hence why YouTube hasn't given out any personal information when they're being after by Viacom or other places because it's not legal. I think I'm thinking of the same thing...
> 
> ...



Really? You can't be mature? Come back and try again when you grow up.


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## shakirmoledina (Feb 6, 2011)

i personally think sony cannot go too far... its gonna be too messy for them unless they are really determined and i dont think they would go very far to fight each of the hackers lawyers... tht would cost more than piracy
if the hackers do something and we follow them, they should not be blamed... by us


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## Sterling (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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Not buying something from Sony is a choice. I won't be buying new Sony wares ever again. The last part isn't true. They care, which is why Nintendo does updates, and Microsoft does ban waves, and IW and such do stat resets. They just go about it in a more sane way than Sony. Seriously, I've owned a few PS2s (Two new ones), a few Sony Tvs, a few 'High quality' ear phones (They produced high quality sound, but the promptly broke due to poor build quality), and a couple 'W' series MP3 players in the last few years, and the only thing they did right were those MP3 players and PS2s... I've been fed up with them, and I should have started doing this a while back. They are dumb for driving customers away with poor quality products and sub par customer service. Nintendo on the other hand has been quite prompt and courteous at replacing defectious systems, and Microsoft hasn't given me any problems with their Customer service either.


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## Maikel Steneker (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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I'll just link you back to my first reply in this topic: http://gbatemp.net/index.php?act=findpost&pid=3440970

You have made a lot of factual errors and you make all sorts of assumptions that turn out to be wrong. It's clear that you try to formulate proper arguments and I largely agree with what you're saying, but Argentum Vir has a point here.


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## Maedhros (Feb 6, 2011)

Maikel Steneker said:
			
		

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Where? Wii and Microsoft having good security? Am I wrong on that seeing that it was hacked really fast (don't come with decent security, decent isn't enough)? Or it was about 3.56FW by Sony (which is true that they implemented a whitelist and some pirates already don't have access to PSN since they need FW 3.56 and the hackers are concentrating on CFW 3.55 and downgrades). People who use originals not being agains Sony was the other, that's arguable, but not wrong argument.


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## Sterling (Feb 6, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Where? Wii and Microsoft having good security? Am I wrong on that seeing that it was hacked really fast (don't come with decent security, decent isn't enough)? Or it was about 3.56FW by Sony (which is true that they implemented a whitelist and some pirates already don't have access to PSN since they need FW 3.56 and the hackers are concentrating on CFW 3.55 and downgrades). People who use originals not being agains Sony was the other, that's arguable, but not wrong argument.


The Wii and the 360 both have better security than the PS3. Mistakes were made, and that's why the Wii and the 360 have been hacked. Sony made some great choices, but then made a few bad mistakes. The removal of OtherOS was a bad on their part. The only reason it wasn't hacked 8 months after release was because of OtherOS. Their problem was that the few people who apparently used the OtherOS was the people who could hack the PS3. If Nintendo does the same thing on the 3DS, and allows the hackers in just enough, then their Console will stay hack free for the duration of its lifetime.


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## Maz7006 (Feb 6, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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i couldnt agree with you anymore, that is a LIKELY possibility but the way that that "man that looks funny and was recently evicted because of his cfw"(is that ok VA?)  went about it put a bad name for everyone else and ultimately put the ps3 scene to ruins.


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## SPH73 (Feb 6, 2011)

Magmorph said:
			
		

> Has anyone looked at what Sony wants to subpoena? *They want info on who accessed Hotz's website and on who viewed a YouTube video Hotz made.*



At first I thought you were exaggerating but it appears this is correct. They actually want a list of every YouTube user who watched the Hotz video. 

This is unbelievable, even for Sony. The depth of evil and arrogance astounds me. This truly is the ultimate violation of consumer rights and our personal freedoms. And I'm an not overstating my case...

And here's the worst part. They'll get the info they requested. Then if you watched that video you'll get put on a list. (A list Sony will keep forever like Nixon and his "enemies list.") And from now on Sony will consider you a criminal just because you watched a video, or went to a web site, even if you didn't mod/jailbreak your PS3.

Totally, completely, evil.

ApocalyPS3 Now.


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## omgpwn666 (Feb 6, 2011)

Midna said:
			
		

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Obviously, but that doesn't make me wrong.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 6, 2011)

god that's scary soon sony will act like Shinra and be the government


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## jonesman99 (Feb 7, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

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Took the words right out of my mouth. Sony is really in their feelings because of 

1) How it was hacked, and 

2) The fact that the hackers remarked as to how slack the security features are on their product.

I'm a nintendo person, till the day I die, but at the same time I must give credit where credit is due. Sony made a "potentially great" product, with a couple unnecessary features in it. And at the same time they did not take the time look over the one feature that could make or break its longevity.

Then on top of all that, Sony decides to take out OtherOS, the one feature that made the hackers overlook their lacking security that they STILL ended up cracking, AFTER they took out OtherOS.

They put their own feet in their asses when they did that, thus, they are now "butthurt". Now, to add insult to their self-made injury, Sony is going after other prominent hackers, that probably have and WANT nothing to do with this console. At least, to the extent that Geohot took it to.


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## ShinyLatios (Feb 7, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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I fixed something. its the truth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sony has to grow up. ever since they had HD everyone started licking crap out of their asses
"PS3 is better then XBOX because games are better, and wii is for little girls!"
(atleast wii does have a lot of orginal games)

Sony has gotten their ass licked ever since HD came, and they have become the spoiled brats of today.


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## FireGrey (Feb 7, 2011)

It's actually not bad they are doing this.
Noone wants people to be hacking trophies or cheating online right?


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## godreborn (Feb 7, 2011)

y can't playstation 3 owners sue sony for removing features?  that strikes me as illegal seeing as how some people bought the system for the features that were removed.  what if they suddenly decided to remove the ability to upgrade ur hard drive or bluray playback, etc?  I think people need to start boycotting all sony products as this whole thing has shown sony's true colors.  I understand they have to protect their system, but they're starting to tread on people's privacy now.  sony, as a company, should've been gone a long time ago.  they've had a track record of screwing their customers over--y does this company even still exist???

and, I might add, nintendo and microsoft have a much better business sense than sony.  sony's going to end up wasting millions of dollars, which they'll never going to get back, in court cases.  just because u win a million-dollar court case doesn't mean u'll ever see a dime of that.


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## ShinyLatios (Feb 7, 2011)

godreborn said:
			
		

> y can't playstation 3 owners sue sony for removing features?  that strikes me as illegal seeing as how some people bought the system for the features that were removed.  what if they suddenly decided to remove the ability to upgrade ur hard drive or bluray playback, etc?  I think people need to start boycotting all sony products as this whole thing has shown sony's true colors.  I understand they have to protect their system, but they're starting to tread on people's privacy now.  sony, as a company, should've been gone a long time ago.  they've had a track record of screwing their customers over--*y does this company even still exist???*



because with ass-licking fans and brand loving people comes a lot of money.
with money, you can do everything in this world. so you can also keep YOUR brand alive and you will always have the brand worshippers and sonys ass licking fans.

'PS3 is EPIC WIN! why? cuz it is!'
'Wii is epic fail. why?it haz no HD!'

thats what happens.


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## Maedhros (Feb 7, 2011)

Kajdan said:
			
		

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Ass licking fans isn't something exclusive of Sony, you know. Just some of the arguments I see on this and other forums.

"Graphics aren't important, what is important is the fun, and fun > graphics, so I like Nintendo."


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## godreborn (Feb 7, 2011)

well, if the reports of a new rootkit being in firmware 3.56 r true and sony can scan ur system for anything they want, they need to be hit with a major lawsuit--hundreds of millions of dollars.  that fascist-loving company deserves to be brought to their knees and executed...and if that company were a person, I wouldn't even bother burying it.


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## Maedhros (Feb 7, 2011)

godreborn said:
			
		

> well, if the reports of a new rootkit being in firmware 3.56 r true and sony can scan ur system for anything they want, they need to be hit with a major lawsuit--hundreds of millions of dollars.  that fascist-loving company deserves to be brought to their knees and executed...and if that company were a person, I wouldn't even bother burying it.


11. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES

From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that Sony Online Services and content offered through Sony Online Services, your PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation® Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign in. *Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system*, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation® Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages, loss of data or loss of functionalities arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any archivable data located on the hard disk.

You sign that when you connect on PSN.

BTW, the term rootkit is wrong for this case, Microsoft does the same thing to ban consoles from Live.


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## cwstjdenobs (Feb 8, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse.
> 
> So the TOS for the OS is the forum TOS
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True. But they don't do it if you don't use Live/agree to it.


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## Maedhros (Feb 8, 2011)

They don't do this on PSN case too.

Actually, I don't know what's the problem, if you use a modified FW by someone you don't even know (let's call him "John from the garage"), they can put any code they want there... it's your choice: Sony's OFW or "John from the garage FW".

Anyway, if this makes CFW users not use the PSN, I would care shit if I had a PS3. Modify your consoles if you want, just keep out of PSN. (The few ones who uses CFW for just homebrews and buy original games always are the one who suffer because of the others).


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## Oveneise (Feb 8, 2011)

Youtube won't give out the info, as someone else said Viacom tried to do the same thing, and Youtube pretty much said they wouldn't give out their information, because they didn't need to. Based on the predecent, why would Youtube give the info on whos watched Hotz's video's to $ony? ... Man I am really hating $ony right now. Someone needs to get an email address so we can send $ony our ... "inquiries". Any news on Hotz handing over his tech to $ony?


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## GreatZimkogway (Feb 8, 2011)

Really, Sony.  Do you not wonder why Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, and others have never tried going this far?  Because *it will not work.*  You will only succeed in wasting your money and our own.  Waste your own money, fine.  But you start wasting people's money, you're going to get stung...  

Sony made a good platform.  It got hacked, *just like every other thing on the market, phones included*.  Suck it up, and go with what you did the PSP.  Work around it, and give us damn incentives to not use CFW.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> PSX-SCENE, YouTube, Twitter, PayPal and Slashdot


PSX-SCENE may or may not.  
Youtube definitely won't, that's guaranteed.
Twitter is almost guaranteed that they won't, after they tried not to with the Wikileaks fiasco.  
Paypal...they...might.  It really depends for them.  
Slashdot?  Why would they?


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## jonesman99 (Feb 8, 2011)

This sorta goes back to the whole monkey see, monkey do situation Sony has been doing for a while now. Whenever Nintendo does or says something, Sony copies it and takes it one step farther. Someone at Nintendo made a statement about piracy running rampant on their systems, and in a formula they gave us a blatantly made up number as to how much they lost because of it.

Sony "sees" that, and starts to think, "Oh no! What if that happens to our PS3? The hackers have already gotten to our handheld like their DS, let's go on the defensive now so we don't end up like them."

And so, like little kids playing "cops and robbers" or "cowboys and indians", they take away OtherOS, the thing that was keeping the entire system from being hacked.


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## godreborn (Feb 8, 2011)

I agree.  sony just needs to accept people pirating games for their system.  the number of pirates is probably less than 1% of the total user-base, so y bother wasting money and insinuating that all ps3 purchasers r going to pirate.  I also hate these madeup numbers of how much is lost due to piracy.  if so much was lost, y is black ops the 7th best selling game of all time...not just for this generation???  that sounds like it proves the exact opposite.


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## machomuu (Feb 8, 2011)

godreborn said:
			
		

> I agree.  *sony just needs to accept people pirating games for their system.*  the number of pirates is probably less than 1% of the total user-base, so y bother wasting money and insinuating that all ps3 purchasers r going to pirate.  I also hate these madeup numbers of how much is lost due to piracy.  if so much was lost, y is black ops the 7th best selling game of all time...not just for this generation???  that sounds like it proves the exact opposite.


I think that's going a little overboard, even Nintendo and Microsoft take action against pirates/piracy.

Though I do understand why you say this.


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## chyyran (Feb 9, 2011)

Wow, Sony is going after *Google*????????


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