# What would you say is the #1 advantage retro games have over modern games?



## jDSX (Jul 11, 2016)

(Sorry for that long title) 
For me personally, it's the lack of online capabilities. There are so many games nowadays that have most, if not all of the gameplay focused online, and that feels very temporary to me. Online servers are always going to go down eventually, whereas retro games are permanent and will be just as playable in the current decade as they were in the '80s and '90s. In a few years certain online focused games are going to be literally unplayable.


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## VinsCool (Jul 11, 2016)

The lack of day one dlc and actual content without being used as beta testers for rushed games.


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## DKB (Jul 11, 2016)

Cartridges. :^)


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## Veho (Jul 11, 2016)

A lot of them are pick up and play, and you can play for five minutes or five hours.


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## RPG_Lover (Jul 11, 2016)

No updating - being able to go from power on to playing within seconds


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## ric. (Jul 11, 2016)

They're fun.


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## Catastrophic (Jul 11, 2016)

Lastability. Many old consoles still work perfectly fine due to more simple and robust hardware. Modern consoles aren't so lucky.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 11, 2016)

Depending upon where you draw the line of retro (I am old so calling the N64 retro is not something I do) then the games are but a few hundred kilobytes, maybe up to 16 megabytes at most, which means they can be stored via non crap distribution methods (oh 500 megs, enjoy the awfulness that is mega or this torrent, oh 2 megs well it is on our nice direct mirror) and other than the Amiga most emulators function standalone without any issues and probably have a load of nice features. I start with PS1 or N64* and then I get BIOSes, plugins, emulator config, hardware issues (oh no your little netbook does not have proper opengl/updated directx, meanwhile I would already be playing streets of rage or something), general incompatibility issues, I will possibly lack features I consider standard elsewhere and newer consoles are worse still. Nothing insurmountable but I like my convenience in these cases. 

*of course I would not want to play an N64 either as most things that matter on it got remade in far better form elsewhere and are borderline unplayable today, even with the fancy texture packs and frame rate hacks.

To that end the ability for them to be insert and go from a USB drive is their biggest advantage for me.

On pick up and play then percentage wise it is lower but it is still doable today for me, and most games I care to play will need a hour or more long session anyway.


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## Logan Pockrus (Jul 11, 2016)

Developers still cared about producing quality content.  They couldn't just rush the game out and push an update a few days later; games had to be finished and as close to perfect as possible before their release date.


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## CeeDee (Jul 11, 2016)

You can rom hack them all you want and make all kinds of mods. Just look at all the stuff that's been done with Super Mario World!


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 11, 2016)

ALL CONTENT IN GAME

Also CHEAT CODES


and GAME GENIE, GAMESHARK, ACTION REPLAY, CODE BREAKER

last but not least, DEBUG MODES!







Can't do that on your wii u huh?


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## Veho (Jul 11, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> Developers still cared about producing quality content.  They couldn't just rush the game out and push an update a few days later; games had to be finished and as close to perfect as possible before their release date.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


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## Logan Pockrus (Jul 11, 2016)

Veho said:


> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


Shhh we do not speak of that game.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 11, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> Shhh we do not speak of that game.


Nor do we speak of this game either. 

That NINTENDO SEAL OF QUALITY DOWN THERE IS A JOKE


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## jDSX (Jul 11, 2016)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Nor do we speak of this game either.
> 
> That NINTENDO SEAL OF QUALITY DOWN THERE IS A JOKE



http://www.saveshaqfu.com/


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## Logan Pockrus (Jul 11, 2016)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Nor do we speak of this game either.
> 
> That NINTENDO SEAL OF QUALITY DOWN THERE IS A JOKE


No rule is without its exceptions.  Now, this came from a time of (generally) great games.  That console had a very large library, from what I remember.  However, this game truly is...something else.


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## Rockhoundhigh (Jul 11, 2016)

For me I think it's the speed at which you grasp the game's mechanics. A lot of games these days take so long to get started for the sake of story or trying to ease in the player that second playthroughs can feel like excruciating slog fests because the developers just don't know how to let you play the game.


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## jDSX (Jul 11, 2016)

Rockhoundhigh said:


> For me I think it's the speed at which you grasp the game's mechanics. A lot of games these days take so long to get started for the sake of story or trying to ease in the player that second playthroughs can feel like excruciating slog fests because the developers just don't know how to let you play the game.



Baldur's gate says hi 
Neverwinter knights says hi


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 11, 2016)

Logan Pockrus said:


> No rule is without its exceptions.  Now, this came from a time of (generally) great games.  That console had a very large library, from what I remember.  However, this game truly is...something else.


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## Logan Pockrus (Jul 11, 2016)

Unrelated to my prior posts, I'd also like to say that old games are more difficult (yes, that's an advantage).  I'm sick of playing games that aren't challenging enough.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

My opinions are being *CHALLENGED!  *


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## cvskid (Jul 11, 2016)

People have said most of what i was going to say so i these things for me.

1. When games came out on older systems sometimes you get a game that has the same name but ends up a completely different game like disney's aladdin for variety.

2. When games were released on newer systems some were still relased on older hardware to the best of that hardware's capabilities for people who could not afford the newest systems at the time, could be wrong on that depending on the game.

3. Just me but back then games were actually games, not trying to be cinematic movie like experiences where there are more cutscenes over actual gameplay.

4. Games for the most part did not hold you're hand for 10 minutes worth of tutorials, you just jumped in and learned how to play as you go.

That's all i can think of for now and feel free to correct me if i am wrong about any of that.


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 11, 2016)

Fun!
Story!
A reason to keep at it!
No extra bills!
High score list!
Easter eggs!
But most of all, making fun of yourself!
Almost no loading time since resources are few, and uses flash/rom memmory!
Direct remuneration!


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## Veho (Jul 11, 2016)

Jack Daniels said:


> Almost no loading time


Well now...


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## Rockhoundhigh (Jul 11, 2016)

jDSX said:


> Baldur's gate says hi
> Neverwinter knights says hi


There's nothing I can do about exceptions. They're always there. I was actually would've mentioned the SaGa series but all the Infinity Engine games are real bastards too. Besides I don't think PC games have ever really applied to this question. If anything a lot of older PC games are substantially more archaic then their console contemporaries. I mean just look at how simplified the Fallout franchise has gotten over time thanks to console-oriented development cycles.


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 11, 2016)

Veho said:


> Well now...


okay the c64 had a really slow loading time.. but nes, snes, sms, genesis/smd didn't when playing original games that is.


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## jDSX (Jul 11, 2016)

Rockhoundhigh said:


> There's nothing I can do about exceptions. They're always there. I was actually would've mentioned the SaGa series but all the Infinity Engine games are real bastards too. *Besides I don't think PC games have ever really applied to this question*. If anything a lot of older PC games are substantially more archaic then their console contemporaries. I mean just look at how simplified the Fallout franchise has gotten over time thanks to console-oriented development cycles.



You forgot DOS games


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 11, 2016)

jDSX said:


> You forgot DOS games


i had no problem with dos games ever on my pentium 120 mhz... at least not when played them from hdd 7200 rpm defragged. but the discs like cd, floppy or 1.44" those took a lifetime...


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 11, 2016)

Jack Daniels said:


> Fun!
> Story!
> But most of all, making fun of yourself!
> Almost no loading time since resources are few, and uses flash/rom memmory!
> Direct remuneration!


Did no one play Street fighter alpha 2 On snes?


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 11, 2016)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Did no one play Street fighter alpha 2 On snes?


i did, ran fine the pal edition


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## Nevermore (Jul 11, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> The lack of day one dlc and actual content without being used as beta testers for rushed games.





RPG_Lover said:


> No updating - being able to go from power on to playing within seconds



These are the two majors things that I agree with.

This lasted up until the GameCube/Xbox/PS2 gen.  Most of them were just power and play.  No DLC, no patches, no preorder bonuses.

Lately, I've found more enjoyment going back to  playing old GameCube games than trying to play a modern game.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 11, 2016)

1. Fully working on release without need for patches and fixes.
2. No stupid hand holding tutorial levels.
3. No 'in-app purchases'


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## FAST6191 (Jul 11, 2016)

1. http://www.romhacking.net/?page=hac...ory=4&perpage=20&title=&author=&hacksearch=Go exists for a reason.
2. I find the opposite. Most would look to NES Mario level 1 as a pretty good class in game design (what with the not being able to get anywhere without a grasp of the run and jump mechanic) and it is good, however it takes a little while for things to kick in.
3. That you had to purchase? Sure, give or take how you feel about strategy guides. Still had plenty of gated and locked content though.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 11, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> 1. http://www.romhacking.net/?page=hac...ory=4&perpage=20&title=&author=&hacksearch=Go exists for a reason.
> 2. I find the opposite. Most would look to NES Mario level 1 as a pretty good class in game design (what with the not being able to get anywhere without a grasp of the run and jump mechanic) and it is good, however it takes a little while for things to kick in.
> 3. That you had to purchase? Sure, give or take how you feel about strategy guides. Still had plenty of gated and locked content though.


Phantasy star II anyone?
"INCLUDES 108 PAGE  MANUAL STRATEGY GUIDE



spinal_cord said:


> 1. Fully working on release without need for patches and fixes.



IS A little fact that there was patches for games but wasn't advertised as a patch, so people wouldn't know the difference in carts to know if they got updated patches or not.

DONKEY KONG COUNTRY PATCHES 



Spoiler



*American*
*US v1.0*
The original release.

*US v1.1*

A glitch was fixed which allows the player to trade an animal buddy for Rambi. The exact directions are quite verbose, but involve entering a bonus area containing an animal buddy while riding another one, jumping on the provided animal buddy, jumping off and exiting, which will cause Donkey/Diddy to appear with Rambi.
The midway barrel in Coral Capers is positioned 10 pixels higher than in the original version.
In Trick Track Trek, the platforms that dropped pretty much instantly in v1.0 no longer do this.
*US v1.2*

It is no longer possible to skip the fanfare when beating a level for the first time.
In a case of "How did the developers not catch that?", most of the mini-Neckys had no collision whatsoever, meaning you could safely jump through them without taking any damage. That was fixed in this revision.
Two bugs relating to the mine cart were fixed:
In Mine Cart Carnage, starting at the midway barrel as Diddy and immediately rolling and jumping at the same time allows you to jump out of the cart. Afterwards, you can jump in mid-air indefinitely by rolling and jumping repeatedly.
In Mine Cart Madness, by falling down (not jumping) into the mine cart at the beginning as DK and getting hit by the Necky, Diddy can jump out of the cart and stay airborne indefinitely as above. However, as an extension, by rolling at the exact same moment you land on a Necky (it must be frame perfect), Diddy will magically hover to the right completely on his own. While this will cancel itself after a while, Diddy will retain his magic jumping capabilities.

The well-known warp glitch was fixed. In Kongo Jungle, passing over a corner and attempting to "enter" it as a level, with the right timing, warped you to a barrel in Orang-Utan Gang that had no purpose otherwise.
Two glitches in Slip Slide Ride were fixed:
One bonus area involves climbing up a rope to a barrel cannon. This barrel cannon will disappear once the bonus has been entered, and if you went back there and climbed the rope all the way up, you could jump to the left over the wall and end up inside the ice.
At the beginning, climbing up the very first rope, then jumping to the right along the wall will cause the Kongs to start crawling along the wall for some really odd reason.

*Europe v1.0*

K. Rool's behavior is a bit different: after the cannonballs drop from above, he will immediately throw his crown instead of just standing there for a while.
The mine carts have less momentum, making those levels much more difficult.
*Europe v1.1*

Fixed the bugs that were fixed in US v1.2


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## gamesquest1 (Jul 11, 2016)

i find its just that you can feel the work that went into some of the old classics, idk if its just me but i always feel like modern games are 99% cookie cutter titles with small USP's attached to help it look different, but for the most part every game is essentially the same as last years version, i think its just that games have got stagnant, there is no more OMG OMG wow new revolutionary tech/design/mechanic/idea, everything is pushed out on the bleeding edge, and sold and bled dry before they have finished even making it

tbh it might not even be so much that the games were better, maybe its just that games today are more of a throwaway medium, same thing has happened with music,film and TV, there is so much content being constantly churned out that before a game can even be played long enough to become a real stick around piece of software, the new and improved version is out ready to take its place


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## lucks (Jul 11, 2016)

They can be played on modern systems xD

No dlc and more play hours.
Bugs and no updates, you can buy the first revision of the game or the last patched one.

You could buy a modern game today without installing updates but the bugs nowaday are big because the devs say "well, we can always make a patch" (see Assassin s creed Lol )

Bigger game libraries.

And...pixels of course xD


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## Evilengine (Jul 11, 2016)

for me it's the limitation of hardware that was a more important apect back then. 
also the tradition of gaming was followed in a clearer way(imho). today you have more like a retrospective, knowing all what was, not easy to unknow it. back then you had not so much before. 
also there were some very strong companies, that did lot of the great gems like Atari, Nintendo, Square, Capcom, Konami, etc.


Not every game broke every rule , more like many revolutions inside a big evolution, that is still in progress. there are still some great -oldschool or whatever you want to call it- games like hyper light drifter. good example of new games that know traditon is ori for me.


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## Deleted User (Jul 12, 2016)

The fact that they didn't have to be connected to internet.


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## Jao Chu (Jul 12, 2016)

No pay to win, no in app purchases, no microtransactions.

Short loading times. Small install size. Cartridges (scratched CDs anyone?)


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## dimmidice (Jul 12, 2016)

#1 turn based battle systems. #2 no online bullshit being forced in games.


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## ThePanchamBros (Jul 13, 2016)

jDSX said:


> (Sorry for that long title)
> For me personally, it's the lack of online capabilities. There are so many games nowadays that have most, if not all of the gameplay focused online, and that feels very temporary to me.QUOTE]
> That's why I prefer Nintendo games.


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## RemixDeluxe (Jul 13, 2016)

This is a minor complaint but still on topic.

The one thing I didnt like with the Wii/DS and systems following is there is a menu you have to go through before playing the actual game. The hardware manufacturers (Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft) insist on making game consoles into multipurpose boxes when I really just want to play the games. The only system with a menu I can tolerate is Gamecube cause at least its optional to access the other settings or just let it continue to boot to the game.


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## Taleweaver (Jul 13, 2016)

I'm going to play devil's advocate and point out that indie devs nowadays often produce games with exactly those advantages that are mentioned (except the file size, if you find that an advantage...it's pretty rare to find a recent game that could fit on a SNES cartridge). And as a gamer who grew up in games that are now considered retro, I have to point out that looking back now filters out a lot of games that were average or attempted clones of more popular games. I bet that if we look back on today's situation 20 years down the line, we'll think that today's games were nothing but quality.

Iif I had to pick one advantage, it would be "the lack of franchise adoration". Again, this isn't so much a critique of today's AAA-games that are rebooting a sequel of a remastered spin-off (once again: indie devs provide plenty of alternatives), but that all games were sort of considered equal. If a game wasn't your liking, nobody whined...they just went with other games instead. The example of Fallout being simplified is a good example. Yes, it's been simplified a lot since the first two games (great analysis video here), but people buy it nonetheless "because it's fallout". Most of us have never even heard of wasteland 2, which is apparently pretty good at providing that old fallout feel.


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## N64 (Jul 13, 2016)

split screen racing & fps.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 13, 2016)




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## DinohScene (Jul 13, 2016)

jDSX said:


> it's the lack of online capabilities.



This sums it up perfectly.
Only drawback of retro games is that some age really badly...


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## FAST6191 (Jul 13, 2016)

DinohScene said:


> Only drawback of retro games is that some age really badly...



Again we are probably back to what we define as retro but if N64 and PS1 are not retro then many of those have aged awfully compared to even C64 era stuff, original xbox and PS2 are not always doing the best and pick your choices well and there are a few PS360 games that had shown their age before the PS360 was done -- at one point I was looking for co-op games and trying out everything I could find, some things there were awful compared to their contemporaries and not just the things that were hastily switched from PS2/xbox to PS360 as that time came about.
I am slightly curious to see how PS360 stuff will age in the years to come. A little while back we were having a discussion about cel shading and how it prevented games from ageing too badly but I reckon that was a bit of a passing fad; it still works as a concept today and points in between but I doubt we are all going to 4k screens and I doubt people will be able to tell what goes with framerate and I doubt they will care so much about crazy accurate light effects/shaders that we seem to be getting now (and presumably will going forward). Unless we get crazy maths underpinned games (people have known how to make good video for years but we still get awfully edited, shot, written and directed content) then I am a bit of a loss to see what the big game breaking (for old stuff) leap will be.


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## DinohScene (Jul 13, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Again we are probably back to what we define as retro but if N64 and PS1 are not retro then many of those have aged awfully compared to even C64 era stuff, original xbox and PS2 are not always doing the best and pick your choices well and there are a few PS360 games that had shown their age before the PS360 was done -- at one point I was looking for co-op games and trying out everything I could find, some things there were awful compared to their contemporaries and not just the things that were hastily switched from PS2/xbox to PS360 as that time came about.
> I am slightly curious to see how PS360 stuff will age in the years to come. A little while back we were having a discussion about cel shading and how it prevented games from ageing too badly but I reckon that was a bit of a passing fad; it still works as a concept today and points in between but I doubt we are all going to 4k screens and I doubt people will be able to tell what goes with framerate and I doubt they will care so much about crazy accurate light effects/shaders that we seem to be getting now (and presumably will going forward). Unless we get crazy maths underpinned games (people have known how to make good video for years but we still get awfully edited, shot, written and directed content) then I am a bit of a loss to see what the big game breaking (for old stuff) leap will be.



I personally see 2 gens back as retro, so with todays 8th gen, the 6th gen can be considered retro, at least for me it is.
Many PS1/N64 games have indeed aged badly.
As for the Xbox/PS2 and PS360 games, the early ones like Bioshock have also deteriorated.
Everything has a high gloss over it.
GTA 4 aged terribly in terms of game mechanics and overall handling of vehicles.

Cell shading however does prevent games from aging badly.
Okami just just as pretty as it did when it was first released.
Games are just meant to be colourful, not greyish photorealistic like GTA 4 (or even worse, Halo 1 and 2 or even worse then that, Soldier of Fortune)

The future however will be pressured by gamers to have 4K at 60 FPS.
I wouldn't dare to guess how those will end up.


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## VincentBeasley (Jul 13, 2016)

For me it was the fact that the time from power on to game-play was minimal. Nowadays developers stroke themselves by throwing up 5 splash screens, a demo and then a fancy tittle screen before going to a long loading screen just to select a save... then another loading screen. It took me like 15 minutes to get Metal Gear Solid V going sometimes haha


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 13, 2016)

Anything 64 bits or under is retro, Or anything without online capibility, Anything made after dreamcast is not retro.
JUST MY OPINION
So don't complain telling me i am wrong.



wolven9 said:


> For me it was the fact that the time from power on to game-play was minimal. Nowadays developers stroke themselves by throwing up 5 splash screens, a demo and then a fancy tittle screen before going to a long loading screen just to select a save... then another loading screen. It took me like 15 minutes to get Metal Gear Solid V going sometimes haha


12 splash screens to credit companies assistance in video games, plus rapid loading screens like Sonic the hedgehog 2006 Hmm... Sonic 2006 must be retro, is plays like a game full of glitches as well as long loading times and bad graphics.


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 13, 2016)

Taleweaver said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate and point out that indie devs nowadays often produce games with exactly those advantages that are mentioned (except the file size, if you find that an advantage...it's pretty rare to find a recent game that could fit on a SNES cartridge). And as a gamer who grew up in games that are now considered retro, I have to point out that looking back now filters out a lot of games that were average or attempted clones of more popular games. I bet that if we look back on today's situation 20 years down the line, we'll think that today's games were nothing but quality.
> 
> Iif I had to pick one advantage, it would be "the lack of franchise adoration". Again, this isn't so much a critique of today's AAA-games that are rebooting a sequel of a remastered spin-off (once again: indie devs provide plenty of alternatives), but that all games were sort of considered equal. If a game wasn't your liking, nobody whined...they just went with other games instead. The example of Fallout being simplified is a good example. Yes, it's been simplified a lot since the first two games (great analysis video here), but people buy it nonetheless "because it's fallout". Most of us have never even heard of wasteland 2, which is apparently pretty good at providing that old fallout feel.


indie games are far to short angled, and far to easy if i may say so... evn monkey island takes a full day if you don't use walkthroughs or hints...indie however mostly takes about a 30 minutes without help of any kind...


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## Taleweaver (Jul 13, 2016)

Jack Daniels said:


> indie games are far to short angled, and far to easy if i may say so... evn monkey island takes a full day if you don't use walkthroughs or hints...indie however mostly takes about a 30 minutes without help of any kind...


Erm...I don't know which indie games you're talking about, but I can guarantee that certainly not all of them are like that (in fact, if you insist on generalizing, I would even argue the opposite...some games go explicitly for that tooth-and-nail hard modus old games were known for).
Short angled...yes, in comparison to modern games with their "here's a sandbox game with a gazillion minigames somewhere inside them" mentality. Not in comparison with actual retro games.


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 13, 2016)

Taleweaver said:


> Erm...I don't know which indie games you're talking about, but I can guarantee that certainly not all of them are like that (in fact, if you insist on generalizing, I would even argue the opposite...some games go explicitly for that tooth-and-nail hard modus old games were known for).
> Short angled...yes, in comparison to modern games with their "here's a sandbox game with a gazillion minigames somewhere inside them" mentality. Not in comparison with actual retro games.


name me those good ones, cause all i tried except for one unfinnished game gave me all the same feeling.... or repettitive no fun, or short story... i might end up buying a few...


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## evandixon (Jul 13, 2016)

RemixDeluxe said:


> This is a minor complaint but still on topic.
> 
> The one thing I didnt like with the Wii/DS and systems following is there is a menu you have to go through before playing the actual game. The hardware manufacturers (Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft) insist on making game consoles into multipurpose boxes when I really just want to play the games. The only system with a menu I can tolerate is Gamecube cause at least its optional to access the other settings or just let it continue to boot to the game.


You can disable the menu on the DS, going straight into the game from the Health and Safety screen.


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## jDSX (Jul 13, 2016)

Jack Daniels said:


> name me those good ones, cause all i tried except for one unfinnished game gave me all the same feeling.... or repettitive no fun, or short story... i might end up buying a few...



Some I can think of:
Bastion 
FTL Faster than light
Shadowrun returns/hong kong
Journey 
The banner saga

Bastion might be shorter than the others on that list.


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## GerbilSoft (Jul 13, 2016)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Anything 64 bits or under is retro


Technically, Xbox One and PS4 are both 64-bit, and Wii U is 32-bit. 

On a more serious note: With older systems, game developers actually tried to push the limits of the hardware with things like "raster effects" and mid-scanline video changes. Nowadays, the "retro" fad is resulting in developers intentionally crippling their games instead of taking advantage of the better hardware. (Or worse in some cases: games that use more resources than they need due to lack of optimization, making them unplayable on current systems and barely playable on high-end PCs.)


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## supergamer368 (Jul 13, 2016)

The lack of loading screens.
Just pick up and play.


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## Taleweaver (Jul 14, 2016)

Jack Daniels said:


> name me those good ones, cause all i tried except for one unfinnished game gave me all the same feeling.... or repettitive no fun, or short story... i might end up buying a few...


Sure thing.  I recently made a blog post about about a 100 indies on another forum, but since you're Dutch, I might as well copy-paste it to gbatemp. Sure, some of them are over in less than an hour, but the same goes for quite some retro games. As for those that certainly take longer are Torchlight 2, trine 2, enemy mind, transistor, element4l, the swapper, guacamelee, stealth bastard deluxe (1 and 2), cave story, roundabout, don't starve, spelunky, openTTD, parkitect, "cook, serve, delicious", hotline miami, world of goo braid and the ones jDSX mentions.
...and I'm leaving out the puzzle games, as I assume those aren't your cup of tea (though I recommend infinifactory and antichamber to everyone who is even remotely interested in puzzle games).


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## Jack Daniels (Jul 14, 2016)

Taleweaver said:


> Sure thing.  I recently made a blog post about about a 100 indies on another forum, but since you're Dutch, I might as well copy-paste it to gbatemp. Sure, some of them are over in less than an hour, but the same goes for quite some retro games. As for those that certainly take longer are Torchlight 2, trine 2, enemy mind, transistor, element4l, the swapper, guacamelee, stealth bastard deluxe (1 and 2), cave story, roundabout, don't starve, spelunky, openTTD, parkitect, "cook, serve, delicious", hotline miami, world of goo braid and the ones jDSX mentions.
> ...and I'm leaving out the puzzle games, as I assume those aren't your cup of tea (though I recommend infinifactory and antichamber to everyone who is even remotely interested in puzzle games).


cave story is on my list, torchlight was repetitive after a few minutes...trine sounds great, opettd is not a new product, as is cook serve delicious i didn't like the drawing style... world of goo! now that is an amazing game i sure like... and you're wrong about the puzzles, i've got the complete lucas arts collection for pc!


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## petethepug (Jul 14, 2016)

Well you have a lot more options with older games imo. You can install ROM Hacks to "extend" the game, play something like Crazy Taxi. Or play a older game that's less rushed compared to most modern games.

I actually enjoy a lot of the GameCube 1st Party Titles, and 3rd Party Indie Games. Becuase they are cheap (Most of the time .) And provide a chill game excipernce if you don't want to play more addictive games like Minecraft, World of Warcraft, etc.

You also have the retro/vibrant colors of the GBA Games, SNES, graphics if you love those titles.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jul 14, 2016)

1. Gameplay
2. Graphics were colourful, stylish and imaginative
3. Stage designs weren't too bland (well, this isn't true for all devs)

Watch Dogs for example came out two years ago and already feels heavily outdated.


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## Ricken (Jul 14, 2016)

Retro games are just plain fun
and the graphics are definitely eyecandy compared to the HD we have now imho


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Jul 14, 2016)

Ricken said:


> Retro games are just plain fun


I wish I could agree but I can't. There are a ton of awful retro games which either make me just completely give up (because of how bad they are) or make me wonder where I'm suppose to go -- But to be fair, on the latter instance I would look up a walkthrough on the internet if I'm unable to move forward.



Ricken said:


> and the graphics are definitely eyecandy compared to the HD we have now imho


Again, can't agree because there's a lot of horribly disgusting look retro games. Here's one.







The only time anyone would play games like these is if they want to experience how bad they are, they're masochists or it's a challenge.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 14, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> I wish I could agree but I can't. There are a ton of awful retro games which either make me just completely give up (because of how bad they are) or make me wonder where I'm suppose to go -- But to be fair, on the latter instance I would look up a walkthrough on the internet if I'm unable to move forward.
> 
> 
> Again, can't agree because there's a lot of horribly disgusting look retro games. Here's one.
> ...


Dont forget Phantasy star series.


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## Famrid (Aug 15, 2016)

For me it's about nostalgia, childhood memories. I have a younger brother like 18 years younger than me, he doesn't understand why i'm playing alex kidd on a master system emulator for him it's outdated and ugly but for me it was my first game when i was like 6 years old.


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## Skelletonike (Aug 15, 2016)

Well, it's not about being an old game or a new game, it just depends on the game.
My favourite system of all times is the SNES, it has tons of great JRPG's and most of those great ones, have aged incredibly well.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 15, 2016)

Famrid said:


> For me it's about nostalgia, childhood memories. I have a younger brother like 18 years younger than me, he doesn't understand why i'm playing alex kidd on a master system emulator for him it's outdated and ugly but for me it was my first game when i was like 6 years old.


Alex Kidd? That game is hard. I never owned a master system, so when  i saw it was on PS3, i tried it. It was that One called Alex Kidd in the enchanted castle, I think was the genesis game and alex kid in miracle world, was the master system game, and both are hard for no reason. That rock paper sissors- I mean "JAN-KEN-PON" was unfair all the time. But it was a fun game to investigate. 

But Ever since i discovered wonderboy games, that what made sega sounded cool all of a sudden. Especially the two genesis games, Wonderboy in monster world and Monster world IV 

And people say genesis games have bad graphics, Those game animate really well.


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## CeeDee (Aug 15, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> The only time anyone would play games like these is if they want to experience how bad they are, they're masochists or it's a challenge.


Or, you know, nostalgia? Might want to re-experience how bad it is. 

_goes back to playing Paperboy for N64_


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 15, 2016)

CeeDee said:


> Or, you know, nostalgia? Might want to re-experience how bad it is.
> 
> _goes back to playing Paperboy for N64_


Goes back to playing Parappa the rapper


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## The Catboy (Aug 15, 2016)

Most quality and lack of online play or micro transactions.
I honestly hate how games are pumped out either unfinished or features/character intentionally removed, then sold back to you as "DLC." I also feel like games have gone down in quality because of DLC. There's no reason to finish a game at launch when you can just finish it later, so games at launch just feel shallow and bad. Then they re-release the games "Definitive editions," which just feel like a punishment for those who bought the game at launch. 
Online play has ruined so many games. COD wasn't perfect, but it didn't need the entire story stripped out for online play. And there's next to no games that have local play anymore. What's the point of multiplayer if I can't play with people in the same room?


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## otenko (Aug 15, 2016)

I just like the fact that games in the past used more 2D graphics. You don't usually see 2D games nowadays on consoles, unless it's indie. SNES was the last mainstream 2D console, while the GBA was the last portable. That's why I love these systems.
Games in these systems were totally finished, however more expensive. The good thing was that cartridges will last an eternity compared to Disks and even more compared to downloads. Besides, cartridges don't have loading times and you don't need to copy it to an HDD, which will eventually die and sometimes ask for internet because DRM. What botters me most is the need to download a firmware update or even Steam client update to play an offline game.
The lack of tutorials is the most awesome feature of retrogames. Take for example, Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, it doesn't hold your hand all the time. You get all the mechanics and story throught short dialogs boxes. Compare that to most of 
the LOZ which came after LOZ:ALttP, where there were loads of cutscenes and tutorials.
Those were times that won't come back. It's a really shame but that's progress. Looking at the newer generations the tendency is that games everytime become more of a service.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 15, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Most quality and lack of online play or micro transactions.
> I honestly hate how games are pumped out either unfinished or features/character intentionally removed, then sold back to you as "DLC." I also feel like games have gone down in quality because of DLC. There's no reason to finish a game at launch when you can just finish it later, so games at launch just feel shallow and bad. Then they re-release the games "Definitive editions," which just feel like a punishment for those who bought the game at launch.
> Online play has ruined so many games. COD wasn't perfect, but it didn't need the entire story stripped out for online play. And there's next to no games that have local play anymore. What's the point of multiplayer if I can't play with people in the same room?


Well some games have things that onnline can't manage, like better team work, or maybe special game modes, or even FUN Lol. 8 player smash exclusive to local 

It just depends on the game. Oh i know, Some games don't even have online modes. Or some don't have local but does have online.


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## YugamiSekai (Aug 15, 2016)

The stories and the feels.


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## supergamer368 (Aug 17, 2016)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Alex Kidd? That game is hard. I never owned a master system, so when  i saw it was on PS3, i tried it. It was that One called Alex Kidd in the enchanted castle, I think was the genesis game and alex kid in miracle world, was the master system game, and both are hard for no reason. That rock paper sissors- I mean "JAN-KEN-PON" was unfair all the time. But it was a fun game to investigate.
> 
> But Ever since i discovered wonderboy games, that what made sega sounded cool all of a sudden. Especially the two genesis games, Wonderboy in monster world and Monster world IV
> 
> And people say genesis games have bad graphics, Those game animate really well.


I found an Alex Kidd game at Goodwill FOR 500 DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....it was....factory sealed...


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## BB1996 (Aug 19, 2016)

Nostalgia retro games have that going for them modern games don't lol.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 19, 2016)

BB1996 said:


> Nostalgia retro games have that going for them modern games don't lol.



Again we have to figure out what is retro, however earlier today we had a discussion on the new resident evil trailer and it seems people were having fond memories of classic resident evil, the last of which was probably code veronica, and I imagine no small number of those played code veronica X in 2003 on the gamecube or something rather than the DC original.

Likewise a while back I saw a conversation about "remember when Call of Duty was good?", I thought I would like to see how older 3d could be held up. Nope Modern Warfare.

Further back still when but when need for speed the run and such was coming out people were saying things like "remember old need for speed". Some of my good PC game memories are of the original couple of games, nope underground was the thing they were thinking of.


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## BB1996 (Aug 19, 2016)

n


FAST6191 said:


> Again we have to figure out what is retro, however earlier today we had a discussion on the new resident evil trailer and it seems people were having fond memories of classic resident evil, the last of which was probably code veronica, and I imagine no small number of those played code veronica X in 2003 on the gamecube or something rather than the DC original.
> 
> Likewise a while back I saw a conversation about "remember when Call of Duty was good?", I thought I would like to see how older 3d could be held up. Nope Modern Warfare.
> 
> Further back still when but when need for speed the run and such was coming out people were saying things like "remember old need for speed". Some of my good PC game memories are of the original couple of games, nope underground was the thing they were thinking of.



I just had to make a nostalgia comment. Its a very strong factor we tend especially in games to overlook what was bad or remember things being overall better than they really were. This factor can vary ofcourse depending on the person and circumstances , even looking back as I was thinking about this question and looking at the games on my shelf from all my past consoles I was thinking wow this game was great maybe I should play it again it was so fun. I just had to bring up this factor.


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## TarkinMX (Aug 19, 2016)

Let's not forget....


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 19, 2016)

TarkinMX said:


> Let's not forget....


So you like bad translations huh?


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## Deleted User (Aug 19, 2016)

I like retro games because they're fast, fun, challenging, and open-ended.  Games like The Legend of Zelda and Metroid don't give you a clue as to what to do next; you have to figure it out for yourself, and I like that.

Also, retro games don't take themselves too seriously.  Unlike a lot of video games today, starring Mr. Edgy McEdge, retro games could just be enjoyed without having to feel depressed by the setting.  Back then, Sonic was considered edgy, and all 3 (4?  5?  eh, forget it) Sonic games were pretty wacky.

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On a slightly different note, I feel the problem with Indie games trying to look retro is exactly that: they're trying to look retro.  They take refuge in the fact that they're old, and are saddled with graphics that look _between_ generations.  As much as I love Undertale, you have to admit, graphics isn't its strong point.

Keep in mind, back then, those graphics were cutting-edge.  They weren't trying to look old, _they were trying to look new_.  However, not all games that go for the retro look are saddled with this.  Games like Shovel Knight and Sonic Mania look dated, sure, but at least it looks like they're taking advantage of the systems they're trying to emulate (NES and Genesis, respectively).  Shovel Knight looks like it could be an NES game, just with a wider color palette and more frames of animation.  Sonic Mania looks like the old Sonic games, but it doesn't copy their look pixel-for-pixel (sans Green Hill Zone, but even then).  Look at how smooth the title screen animation is!  

Anyway, that's my little tangent.  If you're going for the retro look, look _good_ within your limitations.  Some 16-bit games, though dated, had some real eye candy, and that's what modern games seeking to look retro should aim for; dated, yet cool to look at.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 19, 2016)

B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> like retro games because they're fast, fun, challenging, and open-ended. Games like The Legend of Zelda and Metroid don't give you a clue as to what to do next; you have to figure it out for yourself, and I like that.


This reason right here is why i can't play phantasy star 2 
I just wish they would make a remake of it in HD and i'll finally be able to play it. Also games were harder then... sometimes. Getting lives in mario wasn't as easy as it is now. All one up mushrooms were hidden, and Collecting 99 coins for one is just tedious, and whoever programmed that time should look at a clock. It looks like sims. TIME DOES NOT COUNT THAT FAST, O_O


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## FAST6191 (Aug 19, 2016)

Back to Phantasy Star 2 huh. It really seems to have rubbed you the wrong way. Also I guess remake in HD is a term for straight remake -- I am not sure how theoretically more detailed pixel art would change things for that game.

Also what does it matter what speed the clock goes at? It is arbitrary, there is no universal constant called a second. It could just as easily be grains of sand in an hourglass, drips or water in a water clock, swings of a pendulum that is not just shy of 1m.

Also "A year has passed since Bimmy and Jimmy defeated the Shadow Warriors." is a fine sentence. I don't get why it is in that list.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Aug 19, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Back to Phantasy Star 2 huh. It really seems to have rubbed you the wrong way. Also I guess remake in HD is a term for straight remake -- I am not sure how theoretically more detailed pixel art would change things for that game.


Okay, i would like to apologize for all the phantasy star 2 comments, I don't mean to dismiss it as a bad game cause is not. Is more of a personal fustration thing for me. I never actually played it on genesis, i only managed to play it on compilations. Just perhaps i was too late in playing that game that after other rpg games i played before it seem a little bit more developed it is probably my problem and i acknowledge it. But it was also a game released in 1989 for a freshly newly made console. It is the second in the series, i did menton that by the 4 game it was getting to a better point. 

Again, is a personal expereince. that is just probably me, but i do like to invest time in, is just been found difficult for some reason. I dislike how complex the levels are. There is literally places where the floor damages you and you can't avoid it or least i found no way to do so. I have to take damage then heal? Then there is a battle system with almost less control that it might as well been a simulation. I think having the option to equip two items in each hand to attack twice is nice. But then buying items is confusing, the items never tell you what it does, the you never know what people can equip and the names don't help. If i had the actual manual it might have helped me a lot. I would assume all that is in the manual cause where else were you gonna know before getting and using it? Trial and error? 

The dungeons are long, and have confusing floor system, is like a huge maze, and if encounter rate wasn't a problem, maybe that would be okay to deal with, or the slow moving speed they have. I only ever beaten the first boss once, and i was on like level 25 with each character after i did it. It took a few months, it was a long time. Then after i did, all the random battle turned into robots and go lot harder. I been stuck on the one planet ever since, and i know there is more i have to visit just like in the first game, and that is only 1/4 of the game done. Last i remember was something about climate control, so i need to remember what that was about. Having limited save options is a problem, and the thing with having limited items to carry is also a common thing i wish wasn't in games. 

I don't want to make it seem like a complaint cause i don't think is bad, in terms of HD remake, i mean like introducing some kind of navigation system, or least a option for easy mode, or maybe adding ingame guide, in addition to the redone graphics.


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