# Apple Lawsuit Bans HTC Android Handsets In U.S.



## BORTZ (Dec 20, 2011)

> Over the last few months there have been many lawsuits going on centered around Apple patents and trademarks. Recently, Apple had major victory resulting in the ban of all HTC Android handsets. This includes the Sprint EVO 4G, Verizon Droid Incredible, AT&T Aria, and T-Mobile G2.
> 
> The decision now goes to the desk of the president, who has 60 days to issue a rarely-used veto; the ban itself will go into effect on April 19, 2012 to provide HTC with a transition period, and HTC will be allowed to import refurbished products for warranty replacement purposes until December 19, 2013.​ The patent that Apple used to win was made in 1999 [#5,946,647] and had to do with the operating system. This means it could potentially be linked to android and used against Google themselves. This is a huge victory for Apple and we will have to wait and see what HTC’s response is.



Source


Wow. I am somewhat impartial to iOS and Andriod. Theres a lot of stuff that both are doing right, and i think its important that people have a right to choose a cheaper form of smart phone (and arguable to a degree, better). I dont think this is a good turn for the mobile industry.

EDIT i know i posted this and stuff but i dont know if i believe this. Can someone confirm this? What happened? I dont understand.

MOAR down below



Spoiler



Apple won a final patent-infringement ruling that bans some HTC smart phones from the United States, bolstering efforts to prove that devices running Google's Android system copy the iPhone.​The U.S. International Trade Commission's ban would take effect April 19 and is subject to appeal by HTC and a review by President Obama that may delay enforcement. The commission said in a notice Monday that it found HTC's Android phones infringed a patent related to data-detection technology, completing a review of a judge's findings in July.​The ruling is the first definitive decision in the dozens of patent cases that began to proliferate in 2010 as smart-phone makers battle over a market that Strategy Analytics Inc. said increased 44 percent last quarter from a year earlier to 117 million phones worldwide. Apple has been the most aggressive in its legal efforts, trying to slow the growth of Android devices, including those made by Samsung Electronics and HTC.​HTC, the second-largest maker of Android phones, used its partnership with Google to help transform itself from a contract manufacturer founded in 1997 in Taiwan, to the biggest U.S. smart-phone seller in the third quarter. HTC generated about $5 billion in U.S. sales last year, according to a separate patent complaint it filed at the trade agency against Cupertino's Apple. That's more than half of HTC's $9 billion in global sales last year.​Among the HTC phones at risk of being blocked from the United States are the Nexus One, Touch Pro, Diamond, Tilt II, Dream, MyTouch, Hero and Droid Eris, according to Apple's original complaint.​HTC phones accounted for 24 percent of the U.S. smart-phone market in the third quarter, based on shipments, Palo Alto researcher Canalys reported Oct. 31. Samsung held 21 percent of the market, and Apple 20 percent. The market is volatile, and the Apple iPhone 4s that went on sale in October and Samsung's newest Galaxy phone are likely to change the rankings for the fourth quarter.​Apple contended in its complaint that the HTC phones infringed four patents. Administrative Law Judge Carl Charneski in July sided with Apple for two of the patents: one for a system to detect telephone numbers in e-mails so they can be stored in directories or called without dialing; and the other covering the transmission of multiple types of data. The judge determined that the remaining two patents weren't infringed.​The six-member commission, a quasi-judicial arbiter of trade disputes with the power to block products that infringe U.S. patents, chose in September to review Charneski's findings.​Apple has a second complaint pending before the commission that claims other HTC smart phones and Flyer tablet computers infringe five patents related to software architecture and user interfaces. Apple also has cases before the trade commission and in district courts against Samsung and Motorola Mobility Holdings Inc., which Google agreed to acquire in August.​The fight can be traced back to a decision by then-Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs in March 2010 to file the HTC case, the first patent complaint by a device maker targeting Google's Android operating system. Jobs, who died Oct. 5, made it his mission "to destroy Android," which he said "ripped off the iPhone, wholesale," according to Walter Isaacson's biography of the Apple founder.​HTC has retaliated with two trade commission cases against Apple, one submitted last year and one in August. HTC lost a preliminary ruling by a judge in the case filed last year, a decision that the commission is now reviewing. The other two cases have yet to be decided. S3 Graphics Co., a company HTC agreed to buy in July, also has two commission cases against Apple, one of which Apple won last month.​Google, which hasn't been named in any of the Apple cases, denies copying the iPhone and said in a filing that Apple is trying to control the U.S. smart-phone market through litigation.​
Read more: http://www.sfgate.co...L#ixzz1h7JCNlO5​​


​From the iDownload Blog​


> It’s essentially “D-day” for HTC and its Android-flavored devices here in The States. After weeks of postponing, the ITC (International Trade Commission) has finally made a decision in the Apple vs. HTC patent dispute case.​We told you about the lawsuit earlier this month in which Apple is suing the Taiwanese manufacturer for infringing on four of its patents. The outcome could have a huge impact on both companies. So, what did the ITC decide?​According to ​The Verge, the ITC has ruled in favor of Apple. Starting April 19, 2012, HTC’s infringing products are banned from being imported into the US. The ruling applies to several products, including Sprint’s Evo 4G, Verizon’s Droid Incredible, and the T-Mobile G2.​Nilay Patel from The Verge has more:​“After a lengthy review, the Commission found that HTC devices infringe two claims of patent #5,946, 647, which is a system level patent issued in 1999 on analyzing and linking data structures—ultimately implicating Android itself and not HTC’s specific implementation. The decision now goes to the desk of the president, who has 60 days to issue a rarely-used veto.”​The news has to be devastating for HTC, who has already reduced ​its Q4 projected salesfor this year due to poor sales. Product sales in the US made up nearly half of the company’s sales last year. But it’s not going down without a fight:​“We are gratified that the commission affirmed the judge’s determination on the ’721 and ’983 patents, and reversed its decision on the ’263 patent and partially on the ’647 patent. While disappointed that a finding of violation was still found on two claims of the ’647 patent, we are well prepared for this decision, and our designers have created alternate solutions for the ’647 patent.”​Not only does the ITC ruling give Apple its first major court victory in its ongoing patent war against Android manufacturers, but it also gives it considerable firepower for future lawsuits. Look out Android partners.​


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## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2011)

Whaaaat?! This is utterly stupid- it's madness. Madness.


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## jrk190 (Dec 20, 2011)

I think this is when the government should step in, this reduces the amount of options. And what about people who have already bought these phones? My friend just got one...


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## BORTZ (Dec 20, 2011)

Holy shit its everywhere.




jrk190 said:


> I think this is when the government should step in, this reduces the amount of options. And what about people who have already bought these phones? My friend just got one...


I know i messaged my friend. He has an EVO.


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## RupeeClock (Dec 20, 2011)

This isn't how you help the economy or strive to make better products, by literally eliminating the competition by legalities...


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## emmanu888 (Dec 20, 2011)

APPLE YOUR GOING TOO FAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry but i think its stupid whats next no more android ?


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## jrk190 (Dec 20, 2011)

It's about to become a monopoly...


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 20, 2011)

jrk190 said:


> I think this is when the government should step in, this reduces the amount of options.



And then people would bawww about how its government socialism and undermining one patent/copyright could leave all copyrights/patents in jeopardy.

But this is rather silly, you'd think Apple would get bad rep for doing this but people will still buy their shit. Hell, the people who buy their shit are actually probably giddy with joy at depriving another consumer of an option.

If the whole Android ship really sinks though then HELLO WINDOWS PHONE.


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## p1ngpong (Dec 20, 2011)

BortzANATOR said:


> EDIT i know i posted this and stuff but i dont know if i believe this. Can someone confirm this? What happened? I dont understand.



I will just leave this here.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-12/20/apple-vs-htc


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## SamAsh07 (Dec 20, 2011)

I was wondering whom Apple would target next...retards. Even with the death of the egotistic Steve Jobs (with a blow) Apple don't shut up.

"Oh someone is selling better than us and might be a threat in the long run, lets find a stupid reason to sue and get them banned because you know...we own the US Government."
Yeah like literally, Apple has more money than the U.S Government or so I heard.

I think it's time the world sued Apple for using a fruits name as theirs.


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## jrk190 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm already a big fan of the metro design language. I wish everything I had were like it. I have wanted a windows phone for a long time, but Verizon has to have a data plan for any good phone...


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## ficarra1002 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm not surprised. They already patented the rectangle.


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## Skelletonike (Dec 20, 2011)

I think people should stop supporting apple because of this. xp
Apple is being a sore loser ever since android was released, it's like windows and linux, but microsoft doesnt try and ban all linux os...


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## jrk190 (Dec 20, 2011)

SamAsh07 said:


> I was wondering whom Apple would target next...retards. Even with the death of the egotistic Steve Jobs (with a blow) Apple don't shut up.
> 
> "Oh someone is selling better than us and might be a threat in the long run, lets find a stupid reason to sue and get them banned because you know...we own the US Government."
> Yeah like literally, Apple has more money than the U.S Government or so I heard.
> ...


I can see it now-

The defender, Apple, against The Creator.
God is suing Apple for stealing the rights to a fruit he created, while Apple claims to have created the fruit.
Lol.


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## nando (Dec 20, 2011)

its not going to become a monopoly. they just have to come up with something different. i'm sure they are creative enough.


i'm sure htc would be doing the same if they came up with iOS and apple came out with the iphone running on android.


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## OJClock (Dec 20, 2011)

patent trolls be trollin


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 20, 2011)

Seriously? Is acting like children really the answer here? Apple? What the hell is going through your tiny minds, that makes it seem okay to do this?


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## DinohScene (Dec 20, 2011)

> apple.

Stopped reading there.

They think that their god or something.... ;/


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## Giga_Gaia (Dec 20, 2011)

Well, if you live in USA, you could always import one. I also notice that it's USA only and that doesn't apply to Canada.


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## raulpica (Dec 20, 2011)

So, they have ACTUALLY patented something, they're losing money on it thanks to people copying their ideas, and you guys actually see Apple as the bad guy here.

...ooooh weeeell.


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## nando (Dec 20, 2011)

raulpica said:


> So, they have ACTUALLY patented something, they're losing money on it thanks to people copying their ideas, and you guys actually see Apple as the bad guy here.
> 
> ...ooooh weeeell.




this.

i remember when creative was suing apple when the ipod first came out and no one came to their defense.


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## Deleted_171835 (Dec 20, 2011)

raulpica said:


> So, they have ACTUALLY patented something, they're losing money on it thanks to people copying their ideas, and you guys actually see Apple as the bad guy here.
> 
> ...ooooh weeeell.


Blame the entire US patent system for allowing corporations to patent such trivial and insignificant things.


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## DinohScene (Dec 20, 2011)

Maybe fruitfarmers should sue apple for using an apple as logo!?
Maybe McDonalds should sue apple for using the word Mac.

Maybe the world should sue Mars for not being inhabited by little green men.

Heck maybe the Milkyway galaxy should sue Milky way for stealing the name on choclate bars!


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## nando (Dec 20, 2011)

DinohScene said:


> Maybe fruitfarmers should sue apple for using an apple as logo!?
> Maybe McDonalds should sue apple for using the word Mac.
> 
> Maybe the world should sue Mars for not being inhabited by little green men.
> ...



beatles sued apple for using an apple as a logo

mcdonald's routinely sues small companies the have word mac in them


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## naruses (Dec 20, 2011)

Apple, stop bitching!


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## The Catboy (Dec 20, 2011)

ಠ_ಠ
That is what I say to you Apple. I will not buy your freaking over-priced iPhone no matter how hard you try to crush the Android Market, I would sooner buy a Windows phone than buy an iPhone.


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## GreatZimkogway (Dec 20, 2011)

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/12/apples-first-major-legal-win-against-android-is-no-slam-dunk.ars

Calm yourselves, guys, the ban hasn't hit yet, and HTC's removing what Apple bitched about.  So nothing will really happen.  Apple shouldn't've won, but oh well, in the long run, it's nothing special.  Not like they're able to win elsewhere in the world.


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## Puregamer (Dec 20, 2011)

I actually applaud apple for this, they're taking a stand against companies that are stealing their ideas and patents. If anyone should be to blame, it's the US Government for taking Apples side in this matter. Apple is in no way becoming a monopoly in the phone market, they have more of a monopoly in music devices than phones, which they just started creating in 2007. Plus Apple only has one brand of phones, with only 3 iterations that are still in production. I just feel that what people here are saying is out of rage for how successful apple has become in the past decade. I dislike apple for their cockiness but i must say, they do have the best products compared to anyone, in whatever they make.

Apple invented the smartphone, and everyone else is practically copying it. Most companies have been in the game wayy longer than apple, but apple invented a revolutionary phone on their first try, i would hope that other phone manufacturers could do the same.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 20, 2011)

alunral said:


> http://arstechnica.c...o-slam-dunk.ars
> 
> Calm yourselves, guys, the ban hasn't hit yet, and HTC's removing what Apple bitched about.  So nothing will really happen.  Apple shouldn't've won, but oh well, in the long run, it's nothing special.  Not like they're able to win elsewhere in the world.



Like China?


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 20, 2011)

apple = hitler


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## gloweyjoey (Dec 21, 2011)

raulpica said:


> So, they have ACTUALLY patented something, they're losing money on it thanks to people copying their ideas, and you guys actually see Apple as the bad guy here.
> 
> ...ooooh weeeell.


Thank you Raul for bringing some rationality to the thread.

Also, this does not mean HTC goes out of business. If you actually read the article it says they are already working on new products that don't violate the patents that were deemed to be violated. With an April deadline I'm sure they'll have plenty of products ready to replace them.


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## ficarra1002 (Dec 21, 2011)

Skelletonike said:


> I think people should stop supporting apple because of this. xp
> Apple is being a sore loser ever since android was released, it's like windows and linux, but microsoft doesnt try and ban all linux os...


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## wchill (Dec 21, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > So, they have ACTUALLY patented something, they're losing money on it thanks to people copying their ideas, and you guys actually see Apple as the bad guy here.
> ...



The problem most people are having is this:
when Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone, he said that it was patented to death. Every bit of it.
Why? Because in 1994, Apple tried to sue over Microsoft's use of the GUI and lost. Obviously they don't want to lose again.

The issue is that a lot of these technology patents are extremely vague and/or unused for many years. This particular one was filed in the 90s. Can you really claim IP infringement on a patent that was filed in 1996, granted in 1999, but unused until at least 2007?

That's the issue. The patent system is broken. Courts are being used to stifle innovation. The Android vs iOS rivalry has both OSes taking features from the other. Yet, Apple is the one that sues (and all other companies are suing back to cover their asses).


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## chrisrlink (Dec 21, 2011)

jrk190 said:


> It's about to become a monopoly...


correct me if im wrong but isnt monopolizing an industry illegal in the us? (thus is why microsoft split in 2 one for computer one for xbox?) what really amazes me on steve jobs deathbed he vowed to destroy android guess he's doing it from beyond the grave


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## Deleted_171835 (Dec 21, 2011)

wchill said:


> The problem most people are having is this:
> when Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone, he said that it was patented to death. Every bit of it.
> Why? Because in 1994, Apple tried to sue over Microsoft's use of the GUI and lost. Obviously they don't want to lose again.


Well they lost because Microsoft and Apple were both sleazy thieves that stole from Xerox but whatever.


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## wchill (Dec 21, 2011)

soulx said:


> wchill said:
> 
> 
> > The problem most people are having is this:
> ...



The point is that Apple is trying to prevent competition by use of unfair methods. (Yes, I'm aware of the whole Xerox thing as well.)
A successful ban on Android will mean the stalling of innovation in the smartphone sector. You can kiss your dream iPhone 5/6/7 bye bye. Windows Phone 7 isn't big enough, and BB is going down the drain. Only Android keeps Apple on the edge.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 21, 2011)

i wish apple would fuck off back into the corner with their shitty macs that no one bought where they belong.



chrisrlink said:


> jrk190 said:
> 
> 
> > It's about to become a monopoly...
> ...


appl$ prob patented that too so they can get away with it


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

SHIT. I HAVE AN EVO. THE FUCK?

inb4AppleFanboysclaimAppleisintheright.


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## Schlupi (Dec 21, 2011)

No. fucking. way...

Seriously? Why only HTC phones? And what the hell, this is just Apple creating a monopoly, it's illegal! How was this passed?  I don't understand, or know what to say.


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## Bobbyloujo (Dec 21, 2011)

Madness? THIS. IS. Typical of Apple. Screw you Apple. I'm going to buy one of those HTC phones off of Ebay just to be a rebel.


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## Gh0sti (Dec 21, 2011)

i c both sides of this i understand that this hurts competition of andriod v ios and it seems silly over little thing like that to get them banned although apple did give them ways to fix the infringement issue

however they infringed on copy rights that apple obviously had rights to and HTC came in and stole the idea, would u like it if you made something patent it and then someone comes and makes a copy and competes with you in the market

where i stand is in the middle this sucks but also this is right based off laws and such thats my thoughts


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 21, 2011)

Okay...so what is everyone freaking out about? I take it apple patented a certain way to search for data on an unstructured document, and HTC has been using that feature in their phones. This is one patent suit that I think may be justified. It's not like they are saying Android itself is infringing on the patent, just that certain feature.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

TwinRetro said:


> Okay...so what is everyone freaking out about? I take it apple patented a certain way to search for data on an unstructured document, and HTC has been using that feature in their phones. This is one patent suit that I think may be justified. It's not like they are saying Android itself is infringing on the patent, just that certain feature.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Basically you're right, but HTC only used the feature in a few phones before changing it. Apple hasn't used the patented idea and are attempting to set a precedent in order to sue any and all Android devices for various other small similarities. At least that's what I think they're attempting to do. It's bullshit and unfair.


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## T3GZdev (Dec 21, 2011)

fukk apple, they wanna make uber expensive phones, with uber expensive contracts & limited bluetooth(headset only) & limited user interface thats not customizeable & where you gotta sync to itunes just for pictures, music, & videos(which you cant delete without syncing again)(unless but camera) & no external storage. & no 4g.
but wanna ban any other phone that does all that & looks similar.
how about nintendo ban iphones/ipod tough/ipads with front & back facing cameras since there DSi had it 1st.


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 21, 2011)

This topic is going to be full to the brim of people who haven't RTFA


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## the_randomizer (Dec 21, 2011)

Skelletonike said:


> I actually think HTC phones are quite good... Apple is really a pain in the ass nowadays..


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## FireGrey (Dec 21, 2011)

jrk190 said:


> It's about to become a monopoly...


Maybe Apple will go directly to jail and not collect $200.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

God...for all those that think Apple will become a Monopoly for this:

Monopoly: A person or company whom is the *ONLY* supplier of a commodity or good.

Apple would have to physically REMOVE all of Android, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Blackberry and any other mobile phone/tablet/media device.


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## someonewhodied (Dec 21, 2011)

Puregamer said:


> I dislike apple for their cockiness but i must say, they do have the best products compared to anyone, in whatever they make.



Lets see:
OSX: Unable to open a simple .exe file without extra programs.
iPhone: Untill iPhone 4, you had to HACK your phone to give it easy-to-access settings. You can't get much freeware. And it costs more than a lot of other smartphones.
Macs: OOOOOh look. You can pay 2000 dollars for something you can build yourself for 600. What are you missing? just a nice looking case. What to you get instead? a PC.
You can:
Have more customization options
Run a larger variety of games
Run a larger variety of programs.
Run emulators for more consoles.
You are free to add/remove hardware to/from your computer to upgrade or to remove and replace broken parts.
Upgrade your computer whenever it falls behind, instead of paying 2000$ for a new one.


Oh boo hoo windows gets viruses.
Viruses take resources to create. No one wants to give the worse OS a virus. Its like going to war with Canada. 

The ipad2: Lets see. What can it do that a tablet can't? not much. They even *Downgraded* it from the ipad 1. (seriously it has worse specs)


i don't favour windows because i am a biased person. I favour non-apple products because apple is, in no way, the best.


And back to phones: Can you give your iphone the option to call or text with a google number without going out of your way to get to the menu? I dont think so. With an android, you can make it so whenever you make a call, something pops up that says "call with google number" and "Call with mobile number" as your options. 


Anyways, thats my rambling for now.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (Dec 21, 2011)

So Apple's reasoning for not releasing the iPhone 5 is because they had their entire staff investigating everyone of HTC's devices for patent infringement?

Apple really does stifle the advancement of technology by keeping down other companies with better ideas.


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## ByteMunch (Dec 21, 2011)

Karma... Y U NO WORK!?!?


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 21, 2011)

appl$ = skynet


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 21, 2011)

someonewhodied said:


> Its like going to war with Canada.


Is it normal that I liked the post as soon as I read that?


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## coolo2sky (Dec 21, 2011)

So apple pays a judge to rule in the favour of them to get a entire company out of there only business.
This is why I don't like the usa even if they payed the judge 10 million dollars eliminating a company of the entire market
is huge. Microsoft I no I don't like you but please ban Mac OS.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 21, 2011)

coolo2sky said:


> So apple pays a judge to rule in the favour of them to get a entire company out of there only business.
> This is why I don't like the usa even if they payed the judge 10 million dollars eliminating a company of the entire market
> is huge. Microsoft I no I don't like you but please ban Mac OS.


Apple computers had a graphical user interface _before_ Microsoft OSes did.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

coolo2sky said:


> So apple pays a judge to rule in the favour of them to get a entire company out of there only business.
> This is why I don't like the usa even if they payed the judge 10 million dollars eliminating a company of the entire market
> is huge. Microsoft I no I don't like you but please ban Mac OS.


...Are you stupid? A few phones =/= an entire company. As much as I hate the way this lawsuit turned out, I loathe even more the stupidity that is going to come out of this thread.

EDIT: Damn me and my word mix ups...


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## gloweyjoey (Dec 21, 2011)

suprgamr232 said:


> coolo2sky said:
> 
> 
> > So apple pays a judge to rule in the favour of them to get a entire company out of there only business.
> ...


THIS.

HTC having some products removed from there lineup is not going propel Apple into monopolizing the industry. HTC is going to continue making phones and devices and still be viable competition for apple.


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## coolo2sky (Dec 21, 2011)

There never should of been software patients

Also Add this to the front page:
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/19/2647362/apple-wins-ban-of-htc-devices-itc
*Update:* HTC just revised its statement on the case, saying that Apple's patent covers only a "small UI experience" and saying it will be completely removed from HTC phones "soon." We'll see how quickly that happens; any changes would have to first be deemed compatible with Android by Google and then approved and pushed to customers by HTC's carrier partners.
We are gratified that the Commission affirmed the judge's initial determination on the ‘721 and ‘983 patents, and reversed its decision on the ‘263 patent and partially on the ‘647 patent. We are very pleased with the determination and we respect it. However, the ‘647 patent is a small UI experience and HTC will completely remove it from all of our phones soon.

Basically the 647 patient one there being sued for note the patient was made in 1999 it woulda been big then but it isint now it basically a device that scans through a text file and find a phone number then allows you to instally say call the number basically how skype on web pages allows you to do that.

*The 647 patient* (A system and method causes a computer to detect and perform actions on structures identified in computer data. The system provides an analyzer server, an application program interface, a user interface and an action processor. The analyzer server receives from an application running concurrently data having recognizable structures, uses a pattern analysis unit, such as a parser or fast string search function, to detect structures in the data, and links relevant actions to the detected structures. The application program interface communicates with the application running concurrently, and transmits relevant information to the user interface. Thus, the user interface can present and enable selection of the detected structures, and upon selection of a detected structure, present the linked candidate actions. Upon selection of an action, the action processor performs the action on the detected structure.)


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## coolo2sky (Dec 21, 2011)

> ...Are you stupid? A few phones =/= an entire country. As much as I hate the way this lawsuit turned out, I loathe even more the stupidity that is going to come out of this thread.



You're the stupid one a few phones you say? So if Google happens to sue apple and ban iPhone 3gs , iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s you saying a few phones aren't gonna make an impact then you're an idiot.


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## gloweyjoey (Dec 21, 2011)

beat me to it



> To avoid total disruption to its U.S. business, HTC said it would remove the feature found to violate Apple’s patent. It seems HTC won’t have to make too many drastic changes to its current process, as Apple won this round by a narrow margin. The ITC’s decision trimmed down an earlier finding that HTC was infringing multiple claims of two separate patents, instead finding that only some HTC smartphones using Android violated just two claims of one Apple patent. The patent in question is related to extracting information such as phone numbers from emails and taking an action with the information, such as making a phone call.



Essentially some lines of code that takes phone numbers out of your emails to be used.



coolo2sky said:


> > ...Are you stupid? A few phones =/= an entire country. As much as I hate the way this lawsuit turned out, I loathe even more the stupidity that is going to come out of this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> You're the stupid one a few phones you say? So if Google happens to sue apple and ban iPhone 3gs , iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s you saying a few phones aren't gonna make an impact then you're an idiot.



This post is asinine.


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## Hells Malice (Dec 21, 2011)

So Apple can just do whatever the hell they want then.
That kinda makes sense, really. They have enough cash to wave around. I'd love to be a judge for one of their cases.
"Now the Defendant has some very valid points...however, Apple has a very valid stack of $1000 bills and i'm afraid i'm going to have to go with that."


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

coolo2sky said:


> > ...Are you stupid? A few phones =/= an entire company. As much as I hate the way this lawsuit turned out, I loathe even more the stupidity that is going to come out of this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> You're the stupid one a few phones you say? So if Google happens to sue apple and ban iPhone 3gs , iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s you saying a few phones aren't gonna make an impact then you're an idiot.



I'm sorry...what? First off, you're doing it wrong. HTC =/= Apple. HTC has 51 phones (I believe) for sale currently today. 4 or 5 won't destroy the company. Go be stupid somewhere else. Secondly, Google has 0 reasons to sue Apple. Android itself is open source, Google is in no way responsible for what companies use and don't use in their own version of the OS. Lastly, Apple doesn't just sell phones. Sure, they would be hurt if they lost their mobile phone sales but they wouldn't just be gone.

So again, please go be stupid somewhere else.


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## gloweyjoey (Dec 21, 2011)

Hells Malice said:


> So Apple can just do whatever the hell they want then.
> That kinda makes sense, really. They have enough cash to wave around. I'd love to be a judge for one of their cases.
> "Now the Defendant has some very valid points...however, Apple has a very valid stack of $1000 bills and i'm afraid i'm going to have to go with that."


are people really this ignorant? It seems like people dont even read the articles and just *insert anti-apple comment here*


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## Kiaku (Dec 21, 2011)

C'mon Anonymous! Show Apple what is just!


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## Hells Malice (Dec 21, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:


> Hells Malice said:
> 
> 
> > So Apple can just do whatever the hell they want then.
> ...



You read one Apple article, you've read 'em all. They've have several lawsuits they've won for no particular reason.
Or I should say, no GOOD reason. Other than the one I stated, anyway.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 21, 2011)

Appl$ = the monopoly guy


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:


> Appl$ = the monopoly guy






suprgamr232 said:


> God...for all those that think Apple will become a Monopoly for this:
> 
> Monopoly: A person or company whom is the *ONLY* supplier of a commodity or good.
> 
> Apple would have to physically REMOVE all of Android, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Blackberry and any other mobile phone/tablet/media device.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 21, 2011)

in monopoly the goal is to own everything...sound familiar?


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## Giga_Gaia (Dec 21, 2011)

Steve Jobs didn't change the world. Far from it. If he never existed, someone else would have done everything he did and the world would have kept on living.

The only thing Apple changed in the world is how douchebag they are.


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## ShadowSoldier (Dec 21, 2011)

Fuck apple. Seriously. If this is the type of the company that they want to be and not give us choices, then I want nothing to do with them. Android is a far better OS than iOS because of it's ease of access and basically already letting you do to your phone what rooting does (almost). It gives more access than iPhone or anything.

Apple is a joke, Steve Jobs was a butthurt retard when he was alive, and I hope someone takes Apple down.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 21, 2011)

Giga_Gaia said:


> Steve Jobs didn't change the world. Far from it. If he never existed, someone else would have done everything he did and the world would have kept on living.
> 
> The only thing Apple changed in the world is how douchebag they are.


exactly plus the tech already existed he just USED it. than he used another similar service that ALREADY existed at the time called nappster and USED the same idea in crappy apple store except nothing is FREE.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:


> in monopoly the goal is to own everything...sound familiar?





suprgamr232 said:


> God...for all those that think Apple will become a Monopoly for this:
> 
> Monopoly: A person or company whom is the *ONLY* supplier of a commodity or good.
> 
> Apple would have to physically REMOVE all of Android, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Blackberry and any other mobile phone/tablet/media device.


Can't make it any clearer than that. In order for Apple to become a monopoly, they have to take over all of those companies. Not gonna happen, ever. They are pretty shitty for doing what they did, but they aren't a monopoly.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 21, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:


> in monopoly the goal is to own everything...sound familiar?


No.
In Monopoly, the goal is to be the richest person at the end of the game.



Giga_Gaia said:


> Steve Jobs didn't change the world. Far from it. If he never existed, someone else would have done everything he did and the world would have kept on living.


You just proved yourself that he did change the world.
Fact is, he was the person who did what he did. Does it matter that someone else could have done it?


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## Giga_Gaia (Dec 21, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:


> apple = hitler



No offense, Hitler looks like a saint compared to those clowns.

Also, Hitler, even if he was evil and his actions were terrible, the evil things he did actually provoked some changes. What he did was so unforgivable, that people were forced to realize that there is something wrong with this world and something needs to be done.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 21, 2011)

You know? Instead of taking HTC to court and having a ban on some of their phones? Why not just charge them and force them to pay for what they "stole".


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

Mchief298 said:


> You know? Instead of taking HTC to court and having a ban on some of their phones? Why not just charge them and force them to pay for what they "stole".


This is the way Apple should have gone about it, or at least they should have informed HTC they knew and they should have given them a chance to change the code. But Apple is a greedy company looking to get to the top in any way possible, which is why they took HTC to court.


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## Giga_Gaia (Dec 21, 2011)

Mchief298 said:


> You know? Instead of taking HTC to court and having a ban on some of their phones? Why not just charge them and force them to pay for what they "stole".



That's what I think, I mean seriously, you just banned the phone in USA. USA is just small tiny part of the world. HTC can actually keep selling stuff everywhere else. Not only that, but people in USA can just import from another country. A phone is just a phone, you can easily find a lot of providers for a phone even if it's banned.


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## Giga_Gaia (Dec 21, 2011)

Pingouin7 said:


> Bladexdsl said:
> 
> 
> > in monopoly the goal is to own everything...sound familiar?
> ...



He did not change the world. In fact, if you had a time machine and were to go back in the past and kill his ancestors, the world you'd come back to would be the same. His existence was as worthless as anyone else.

Dennis Ritchie died in the same month as Steve Jobs, did far more important things than Steve Jobs ever did and his death was unnoticed.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 21, 2011)

Giga_Gaia said:


> He did not change the world. In fact, if you had a time machine and were to go back in the past and kill his ancestors, the world you'd come back to would be the same. His existence was as worthless as anyone else.


That argument is irrelevant, because time machines do not exist.
And no, the world would have changed at least a little if Steve Jobs's ancestors had been murdered by someone that came from the future.

Fact is, Steve Jobs changed the world. It doesn't matter if someone else could have done it, because he was the one who did it, which is all that counts.

That would be like saying "Albert Einstein is worthless because someone else would have discovered what he discovered."


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## ShadowSoldier (Dec 21, 2011)

So help me out here, what's the difference between say Microsoft suing Apple for the way their computers and OS's work, and Apple suing HTC?


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## kylster (Dec 21, 2011)

Am I the only one who see's more and more company's doing acting like this? it's senseless and immature plus to me it's in the same boat as what Sony is doing  so that by logic we do not really even own our phones so it's not our right to voice an opinion...


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## gloweyjoey (Dec 21, 2011)

Hells Malice said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Hells Malice said:
> ...


You failed to even notice that HTC had 2 of the 3 rulings go THEIR way.... HTC is "PLEASED" with this outcome and have been working on a work-around for the ONE patent, out of 10 that were claimed to be infringed on by apple... Your comment makes no sense... all I see in this thread is reading comprehension fail.



> “*This decision is a win for HTC ... we are very pleased with the determination and we respect it,”*
> *HTC general counsel,*
> *Grace Lei*


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## coolo2sky (Dec 21, 2011)

> ...Are you stupid? A few phones =/= an entire company. As much as I hate the way this lawsuit turned out, I loathe even more the stupidity that is going to come out of this thread.





> You're the stupid one a few phones you say? So if Google happens to sue apple and ban iPhone 3gs , iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s you saying a few phones aren't gonna make an impact then you're an idiot.





> I'm sorry...what? First off, you're doing it wrong. HTC =/= Apple. HTC has 51 phones (I believe) for sale currently today. 4 or 5 won't destroy the company. Go be stupid somewhere else. Secondly, Google has 0 reasons to sue Apple. Android itself is open source, Google is in no way responsible for what companies use and don't use in their own version of the OS. Lastly, Apple doesn't just sell phones. Sure, they would be hurt if they lost their mobile phone sales but they wouldn't just be gone.
> 
> So again, please go be stupid somewhere else.



First of all idiot learn to read


> So if Google happens to sue apple and ban iPhone 3gs , iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s you saying a few phones aren't gonna make an impact then you're an idiot.


I didint say Google had a reason to sue apple idiot the point I was making is a few phones can make a impact. HTC has alot of phones but only a few on the market and 2 thirds of them are budget phones then there big phones which are the ones that the lawsuit hit and the market im referring to is the high end smartphone market luckily htc only have to change a few things to get them back on the market. You're acting as if I think Google should sue apple and those so called 51 phones are just the same phones but on different carriers which I believe in the usa you change the phone name for different carriers and maybe add a led light or two.

Take you're miss reading elsewhere


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## Foxi4 (Dec 21, 2011)

It's physically impossible to create a phone of a different shape given the dimensions of the touchscreen, it has to be a rectangle otherwise it will be *massive*, Apple is indeed being a sore loser yet again and I sincerely hope someone puts a stop to this stupidity. Stop buying their devices, they're clearly trying to bring the market to a standstill.


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## BlueStar (Dec 21, 2011)

RupeeClock said:


> This isn't how you help the economy or strive to make better products, by literally eliminating the competition by legalities...




The divine perfection of the free market will balance everything out!

Oh, wait, no, it allows companies to gain a stranglehold on their niche and limits freedom of choice.

The dimensions and interface of a smart phone are going to look similar because of set values like the distance between the human ear and the human mouth, the size of human hands etc.  It's perfectly possible for companies to come up with similar handsets independently.  A planet similar to earth would end up with lifeforms very similar to those we have here.  And that's not because that planet 'copied' us, it's because there are the same factors shaping things.


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## Zerosuit connor (Dec 21, 2011)

SamAsh07 said:


> I was wondering whom Apple would target next...retards. Even with the death of the egotistic Steve Jobs (with a blow) Apple don't shut up.
> 
> "Oh someone is selling better than us and might be a threat in the long run, lets find a stupid reason to sue and get them banned because you know...we own the US Government."
> Yeah like literally, Apple has more money than the U.S Government or so I heard.
> ...



They probably will, hang on my HTC Incredible S is ringing, hmm what's that, apple thinks it's god? Honestly I would rather use the freaking WebOs. Also if anyone mentions windows phone I will shoot myself right now.


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## Domination (Dec 21, 2011)

Actually, this is one of the best possible outcomes aside from HTC winning the case. HTC themselves said that there's an easy workaround to this, and even their shares have rebounded. And consider the fact they only ruled in favour of only 1 out of the original 10(later 4) alleged infringements . And the fact is HTC does seemed to have infringed the copyright, though i personally think its no big deal, but well that's how the system works.

I'm not saying what Apple is doing is right - I'm not defending them - I'm just saying this ruling isn't as bad as many of you make it look like.


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## gloweyjoey (Dec 21, 2011)

Domination said:


> Actually, this is one of the best possible outcomes aside from HTC winning the case. HTC themselves said that there's an easy workaround to this, and even their shares have rebounded. And consider the fact they only ruled in favour of only 1 out of the original 10(later 4) alleged infringements . And the fact is HTC does seemed to have infringed the copyright, though i personally think its no big deal, but well that's how the system works.
> 
> I'm not saying what Apple is doing is right - I'm not defending them - I'm just saying this ruling isn't as bad as many of you make it look like.


misleading title, followed by misleading post by misled user = misled responses


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## chartube12 (Dec 21, 2011)

So the very day, I'm due for an upgrade in the coming year, Apple gets away with fucking me over?!


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 21, 2011)

coolo2sky said:


> First of all idiot learn to read
> 
> 
> > So if Google happens to sue apple and ban iPhone 3gs , iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s you saying a few phones aren't gonna make an impact then you're an idiot.
> ...


Your stupidity is so immense I can't even continue this argument, so I'll stand by what I said earlier. Google will NEVER have ANY reason to sue Apple, not even in fantasy land, Apple =/= HTC. A few phones out of the 51 for sale currently won't hurt HTC at all. A few phones can make an impact...if you only sell a few phones. I would advise you to stop trying to continue this argument as you will only be embarrassed and shall lose. 

On Topic, after reading a few more articles I see HTC actually won a few different lawsuits and only lost the 1 which they are currently fixing. It shouldn't even be that hard to fix anyways so no real problem here. 

Hopefully this thread will be dead soon as I'm sure that new poster will continue the argument. Oh well.


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## xile6 (Dec 21, 2011)

Apple sicks as there scared. Thats why they sue everyone. They need to just stop and run there comp as is. We should boycot apple.


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## iFish (Dec 21, 2011)

Hooray. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against HTC (and I like he Sense UI). But they make a new phone every few weeks and I'm super glad they can't sell in the us anymore. 

I'm not going to say anything that I cannot backup so I guess I'll just leave it as that.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 21, 2011)

iFish said:


> Hooray. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against HTC (and I like he Sense UI). But they make a new phone every few weeks and I'm super glad they can't sell in the us anymore.
> 
> I'm not going to say anything that I cannot backup so I guess I'll just leave it as that.



You're *glad* that someone *limits the market and narrows opportunities* for potential buyers of smartphones *because you support one of the parties involved*?

Would you like some lube with your iPhone? It appears that you like to be taken advantage of.

EDIT: I'd like to elaborate a little bit. I don't see why releasing a large ammount of phones is a "bad" thing. In fact, having only "one" option is where Apple's went wrong.

Imagine a world with only one kind of car, or just one type of furniture. People like variety, people like when their devices fit their specific needs and they like when the price fluctuates depending on features so that they can find a device that fits their needs for the lowest possible price. You don't have that option with iPhones, you do with Android handsets. HTC phones come in different shapes, have different clock speeds and different functions. iPhones are iPhones.

Moreover, Apple doesn't want to "reclaim what is rightfuly theirs", they are trying to narrow down the market, put the focus on themselves and sell as many iPhones as possible, which is understandable, but the tactics employed are to say the least "dirty".


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 21, 2011)

Not reading the 7 pages on this, so sorry if repeats.

It's sad that Apple is running scared of Android and the best they can think of to do is get products banned based on realtively flimsy patent excuses that don't derserve banning and at most a cash settlement. I for one, particularly like htc - have a droid incredible 2 I love. But even if I didn't, I would still be on their side, because it's not like they blantly ripped off everything and made an iphone clone. If that was the case, I would be all on apples side. But it's not. I mean, if wewant to point fingers in the general sense of things, theres a lot of things in IOS5 ripped off from android, and vice versa.

EDIT: Apprently, htc is already working on a fix to get around the ban, so they might have the last laugh and leave Apple with nothing -

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/htc_already_working_around_apples_smartphone_ban/
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2011/12/21/htc_fix_to_avoid_us_smartphone_ban_already_being_tested


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## xxNathanxx (Dec 21, 2011)

Fuck Apple.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 21, 2011)

I'd like to underline that HTC was making smartphones before Apple even got the idea that there's a market for them - those were mostly devices based on various Windows CE kernels. They were true LEADERS of the industry and they only bowed before the almighty Dell Axim.


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## ferofax (Dec 22, 2011)

Apple now officially owns US (mobile market). They be kickin ass and takin names.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2011)

ferofax said:


> Apple now officially owns US (mobile market). They be kickin ass and takin names.



Oh, I'm not so sure. There's still Nokia, Sony Ericsson and many other competitors out there.

Besides, not everyone wants their phone to be "smart".


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## ferofax (Dec 22, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> ferofax said:
> 
> 
> > Apple now officially owns US (mobile market). They be kickin ass and takin names.
> ...


Lol, yes it's prudent to accept their existence, but Apple just steamrolls them anyways. Apple is growing too big, dangerous. Who knows? Apple might start buying those smaller brands so they can STOP them from selling phones, leaving only Apple-branded phones in the market. Coming from Apple, that move isn't so farfetched. Just take this news for example.


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 22, 2011)

@ferofax - Apple is not powerful enough to take out google + htc + motorola + samsung + sony + lg + whoever I forgot. Htc already posted how they have a fix being tested that gets around the whole issue. Apple is just scared because they realize that customer may actually want a choice.


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## amptor (Dec 22, 2011)

mysticwaterfall said:


> @ferofax - Apple is not powerful enough to take out google + htc + motorola + samsung + sony + lg + whoever I forgot. Htc already posted how they have a fix being tested that gets around the whole issue. Apple is just scared because they realize that customer may actually want a choice.



Well said, well said.  I'm glad there's people out there besides me that are not brainwashed by Apple's products.  Normally I would dip into these types of gadgets (iPhone, iPod touch, iPad) but there's something about them that just keeps them from being my interest.  It's probably that Apple for a long time has catered to the upper middle class yuppy type and, although I could mingle with them fine, it just is not my cup of tea.  I would rather see Motorola come out with something groundbreaking again.  After the Motrola Razr flip phone, they have been kinda hit or miss (KRAZR for example) and their new touch screen phones seem pretty decent but unfortunately they don't catch on like the iPhones do with all the zombies around that carry them.

Hopefully one day we will see something new and fantastic come out that is not an Apple product.  Until then, my cash stays in the bank   I'm on a super cheap phone plan with no data even though I can afford an iPhone and data plan.  I just don't need it.  I have computers everywhere I go and LAN and internet.


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## nando (Dec 22, 2011)

i don't see why apple haters need to resort to calling apple users names. you hate the company? fine, but many of us are actually educated people that know our technology well and choose apple. if you are so happy with your companies why keep ragging on apple users? it's quite sad really. it's like no matter how good non apple products get, there is still some apple gear envy you people can't shake.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2011)

nando said:


> If you are so happy with your companies why keep ragging on apple users? it's quite sad really. it's like no matter how good non apple products get, there is still some apple gear envy you people can't shake.



Likewise.

But, you know what they say! _"The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"!_

Bu-dum-tsss...!


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## nando (Dec 22, 2011)

that doesn't pertain to what i said. is steve jobs calling adroid users stupid, uneducated, sheep, zombies? no he is angry at a company that stole his OS.  like i said before, you hate apple? fine. why rag on the users?


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 22, 2011)

nando said:


> that doesn't pertain to what i said. is steve jobs calling adroid users stupid, uneducated, sheep, zombies? no he is angry at a company that stole his OS.  like i said before, you hate apple? fine. why rag on the users?



Particulary ironic since Steve Jobs stole the whole idea for the mac os from xerox parc in the first place. But I for one never said anything about apple users - if they want to pay more for less, that is their problem.

Edit noticed a typo


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## kthnxshwn (Dec 22, 2011)

mysticwaterfall said:


> nando said:
> 
> 
> > that doesn't pertain to what i said. is steve jobs calling adroid users stupid, uneducated, sheep, zombies? no he is angry at a company that stole his OS.  like i said before, you hate apple? fine. why rag on the users?
> ...


You mean Xerox, the company he got permission from?


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## awssk8er (Dec 22, 2011)

HTC Android phones > Everything else...

I wish my phone was HTC...... well not anymore I guess....

Fuck Apple.


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 22, 2011)

kthnxshwn said:


> mysticwaterfall said:
> 
> 
> > nando said:
> ...



That permission is highly questionable given the fact that Xerox sued later over the issue.


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## megawalk (Dec 22, 2011)

wow apple pulled off a good job >_> luckily i am dutch and apple does not have influence at all there


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## kthnxshwn (Dec 22, 2011)

mysticwaterfall said:


> kthnxshwn said:
> 
> 
> > mysticwaterfall said:
> ...


Xerox sued solely because Apple became successful and they made printers.


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## mysticwaterfall (Dec 22, 2011)

kthnxshwn said:


> mysticwaterfall said:
> 
> 
> > kthnxshwn said:
> ...



Apple was successful before then. Xerox sued because they were pissed Apple sued MS and and in doing so more or less claimed to have invented the GUI.

Back on topic, I won't dispute Apple has made very successful products. But instead of letting them stand on thier own merits they get lawsuit happy when they start losing. It didn't work before, it won't work now.


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## bloodliketheatla (Dec 22, 2011)

Well if there really was infringement (and a court ruled that there was) how can you people bitch about this and make comments along the lines of "well, they should make an exception in this case" or "the govt should really step in and do something"?

We have a system that gives people a LIMITED monopoly over their intellectual creations.  You might not agree with the system, or you might agree with it in part but believe that it's imperfect, but that is the system that we have.  Protection for intellectual property was even written into the U.S. Constitution.  Most other countries have similar intellectual property regimes, and there are international treaties that many countries have agreed to enforce.  

In this case, HTC used a method that Apple owned the patent for, and whether they did it intentionally or knowingly doesn't matter.  If you think that this harms competition and the overall economy, maybe you should question the entire patent regime itself.  I, for one, think that it is useless, harms competition, and makes $ flow into the hands of those who know how to take advantage of the system.  But for now it will continue functioning as it always has which includes incidents like this where company A infringes and company B wins a court-ordered injunction.


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## nando (Dec 22, 2011)

i'm actually against frivolous patenting, but you can't claim the world would be completely better without it coming from china specially where most people aren't even sure if they payed for the real thing or a knock off. just look at the fake apple stores that popped up. so where do you draw the line?


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## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2011)

*@bloodliketheatlantic* The court is not always right. In fact, in cases like this, they're hardly ever "right". Certain things should not be patented because they occour to humans naturally, certain design ideas are simply re-occouring, like the idea of an "icon" or "button". This is why people often disagree with rullings in favour of Apple.

As far as Xerox's issue is concerned - there was never any permission because Xerox was not planning to release their system. It was, to a large extent, a tech demo in which little people had faith at that time. Jobs literally took their ideas straight from the beta and implemented them in the GUI he and his team were working on for the Lisa computer.


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## bloodliketheatla (Dec 22, 2011)

How do you determine what is frivolous?  Do you suggest we change what can be considered patentable material?  

There are many people who just take intellectual property as a given (even some economists) but it IS a form of monopoly (albeit a limited one in both duration and rights.)  Therefore it functions just like any other monopoly would, and monopolies lead to higher prices and reduced competition .  Many people believe that the free market rather than IP should sort it out as it always does.  Protecting patents and copyrights leads to a tremendous increase in transaction costs and doesn't necessarily make society better off as a whole. The story that is told is that IP protection will incentivize the creation of inventions and creative works.  But in a world without copyrights and patents do you honestly think their would be any less of these?  Many would argue the other way: that patents hinder technological progress by reducing competition.  This is all assuming we have an efficient patent system which as many people are aware we don't.  In the system we currently have there are tons of overlaps in patented material, patents granted for shit that shouldn't have made it past the first round, and companies that are forced to spend millions buying patents that they won't even use just so that they won't get sued.  Obviously only the largest, wealthiest companies can compete in industries that are plagued with patents so how is that good for competition?  Or should we be happy with a level of competition that is composed of "Apple vs. Microsoft" and "Coke vs. Pepsi"?

Do you honestly think Apple wouldn't exist if it weren't for patents?  They still have strong brand-name recognition, customer loyalty, and efficient production.


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