# Has Nintendo lost it's charm?



## Deleted member 560282 (Aug 10, 2021)

This can be kinda of a polemic question_statement, but, recently I started to ask myself that question. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, their characters, games, a lot of their consoles, and they have always being a synonymous of quality in my book (With some noticeable exceptions).
But the more time it passes, the more I feel their new games just aren't nearly as attractive as before, and most of the time I just get bored of them after a few hours of playing (With some exceptions like New Horizons for example).
A lot of the time, If I choose to play a Nintendo game, 90% of the time is going to be one from an old generation of consoles, probably N64 or Gamecube, cause the new games, while having prettier graphics and textures, they just feel.... boring.

Does somebody else feels this way too? I will like to hear people's opinion about this topic. And please, try to be civil about this. Thank you


----------



## ScarletDreamz (Aug 10, 2021)

Thats probably growing up / nostalgia.
Your gaming taste probably changed, But is ok, I keep going to the same game since 2007.


----------



## Deleted member 560282 (Aug 10, 2021)

ScarletDreamz said:


> Thats probably growing up / nostalgia.
> Your gaming taste probably changed, But is ok, I keep going to the same game since 2007.


That is a possibility, in the end it was the generation of games I practically grow up with. But I'm also interested if somebody has another perspective about this topic


----------



## Kwyjor (Aug 10, 2021)

Ceave Gaming has done some rather thoughtful videos on how Nintendo has changed in recent times. He's a teensy bit pretentious sometimes, his videos are probably longer than they should be, and no doubt a lot of it is wild speculation that could easily be undone by developments in the years to come. But he makes some interesting points.


----------



## Cai0 (Aug 10, 2021)

What @ScarletDreamz said it's true. These old games will be ever the memory of the good time you had discovering and experiencing this new world. But in my view i sense the gamming industry is now like any other industry: the games had been turned in products. I'm not saying that in the past the games released wasn't products as well, but i sense the relation of a company with his public back then was a lot more intimate then now. I feel that the gamming community it's getting more and more serious about their games. It's not wrong but it's something that can make the industry fear to experiment and fail, after all everyone will point at you. Games is now VERY profitable, and for good or bad, every company wants gains.
I remember playing and been enchanted with the games in the 4 Gen, 5 Gen and 6 Gen, and i have seen now, the only games that caused feelings like these came from the indie scenario. Shovel Knight, Cross Code, Momodora 4, The Messenger and A Short Hike are some of the examples that hit me the same way as Super Mario World, Downhill Domination, Crash and Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 when i was young.
One of the big motives i have a game collection at home isn't to say that i have all the consoles, but to recover the old feeling that i had years ago.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 10, 2021)

Total Nintendo fanboi, but one Zelda and one Metroid every 5-10 years isn't enough anymore for me to make sure the consoles on myself.


----------



## SAIYAN48 (Aug 10, 2021)

Yep. All about the money now.


----------



## godreborn (Aug 10, 2021)

I don't think so, but I would admit that Nintendo has been doing as little as possible with the switch: features, amiibos, ports, etc.  it may be because they don't have to, because the system is breaking records as is.  it sucks for me, as a legit user.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

I'm gonna go ahead and say..._kinda_.  Mario Odyssey felt like a complete game that was just as charming as Sunshine, but OTOH a lot of the new Mario spin-offs (sports games, etc) feel half as feature complete as their Gamecube-era counterparts, and don't seem to have as much personality either.  That applies to other IPs too, like Animal Crossing and Pokemon.  It certainly makes a lot of WiiU ports look better by comparison.


----------



## Deleted member 560282 (Aug 10, 2021)

Xzi said:


> That applies to other IPs too, like Animal Crossing and Pokemon.  It certainly makes a lot of WiiU ports look better by comparison.


I gotta say, Animal Crossing New Horizons looks gorgeous in my opinion, but I gotta admit that comparing it with New Leaf, it lacks a ton of content and replayability, hoping the Miles + would do the trick to keep the player playing daily


----------



## Xzi (Aug 10, 2021)

Arekkusuda said:


> I gotta say, Animal Crossing New Horizons looks gorgeous in my opinion, but I gotta admit that comparing it with New Leaf, it lacks a ton of content and replayability, hoping the Miles + would do the trick to keep the player playing daily


Yeah by "look better" I mean they have more content and more of that classic Nintendo charm.  All the animals in New Horizons have fairly generic, friendly personalities.  That alone wouldn't be such a bad thing, but we also don't have a lot of ways of interacting with each of them as individuals, and that made the game stale for me after a few months.  They seem just as resistant to change for AC as they are with Pokemon.


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 10, 2021)

I mean, somewhat.
The Nintendo Switch didn't feel special.
The games are meh but Nintendo hasn't fully lost their charm as proven by Super Mario Oddysee and BOTW


----------



## DKB (Aug 10, 2021)

Yes. Them as a whole just feel outdated.


----------



## Deleted member 560282 (Aug 10, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yeah by "look better" I mean they have more content and more of that classic Nintendo charm.  All the animals in New Horizons have fairly generic, friendly personalities.  That alone wouldn't be such a bad thing, but we also don't have a lot of ways of interacting with each of them as individuals, and that made the game stale for me after a few months.  They seem just as resistant to change for AC as they are with Pokemon.


I'm still salty you can't invite villagers to your house anymore


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 10, 2021)

Arekkusuda said:


> I'm still salty you can't invite villagers to your house anymore


@Arekkusuda do you have any other games you feel that lost its charm?


----------



## dekuleon (Aug 10, 2021)

Iwata years were the best. Now some games may look gorgeous but are boring, yes.
3D world had so many more details very cool, for example, when you see a music note and collect them, it will play a music the way you capture them and Odyssey won't... there are too many moons to collect and the levels are not very cool.

Breath of the Wild is cool but it doesn't feel like Zelda.

Luigi's Mansion 1 is sooo fun to play and Luigi's Mansion 3 is kinda childish and long.


----------



## Deleted member 560282 (Aug 10, 2021)

dekuleon said:


> Luigi's Mansion 1 is sooo fun to play and Luigi's Mansion 3 is kinda childish and long.


Right? I thought I was the only one who thought Luigi's Mansion 3 wasn't as good as the first one, it was boring and the ghost didn't stand up for me




WiiMiiSwitch said:


> @Arekkusuda do you have any other games you feel that lost its charm?


Kirby Star Alies just felt empty, like, most of the last Kirby games. Like I said before, Luigi's Mansion 3 wasn't the greatest for me, AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED WITH THE PAPER MARIO GAMES


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Aug 10, 2021)

That's just what happens when we grow up, as kids everything is new and exciting, as adults we've seen everything before and it takes a lot more to amaze us. As a kid you have far less games to choose from as well, meaning you are going to keep playing the ones you have over and over, even if they're shovelware because it's all you've got.

I return to my favorite retro games a lot and often prefer it over playing something new, part of that is probably due to nostalgia, but I also feel like returning to a game I've played before I know exactly what I'm getting and I know it's going to be good, it feels less risky than playing something new that will probably not end up getting me hooked (because I am picky with games and get bored quickly unless I get hooked) and that's why I often prefer it.

Pokemon has lost a lot of its charm, but that blame is not on Nintendo alone, they only own 1/3 of it. Mario and Zelda's most recent iterations were excellent with plenty of charm, especially Mario Odyssey, so Nintendo are definitely capable of making games like that still. But they have gotten a lot more cash grabby and put out a lot of simpler/lazier titles these days and charging the same full retail price for them, which are still decent games but they're missing that something special, and certainly aren't worth the asking price when compared to Mario Odyssey or Zelda BotW.


----------



## CoolMe (Aug 10, 2021)

Arekkusuda said:


> Kirby Star Alies just felt empty, like, most of the last Kirby games..


The 3DS releases Triple Deluxe & Planet Robobot were great IMO, while Extra Epic Yarn was more of the same thing (the Wii version) but still decent. Some feel that these games are too easy and pose no real challenge at all, well that's not the point at all of the Kirby games..
As for the topic, it goes without saying that nostalgia plays some role here, memories being a kid experiencing these games for the first time and being enamored with how the game plays/looks and the possibilities of what you can do, that feeling sticks with us because the level of excitement/joy had an imprint on our minds, that's what video game experience is. 

Now nothing surprises us anymore, almost everything has been done one way/shape or form, specially as adults, we've played many games over the years, some are great, decent, or terrible. Rarily things are shaken up just enough to be both innovative/original & fun. Also the over-saturation in the market of FPS/open world/ battle royal style games in these recent years, the copy & paste formula of these types, both hinders/makes devlopers to not take chances in trying something new/original, and instead go with the current fad.


----------



## Kwyjor (Aug 10, 2021)

CoolMe said:


> The 3DS releases Triple Deluxe & Planet Robobot were great IMO, while Extra Epic Yarn was more of the same thing (the Wii version) but still decent. Some feel that these games are too easy and pose no real challenge at all, well that's not the point at all of the Kirby games..


The True Arena in Robobot is f'n brutal.  The Kirby games do a good job of presenting a challenge to those who want one, I think.


----------



## Deleted member 560282 (Aug 10, 2021)

CoolMe said:


> The 3DS releases Triple Deluxe & Planet Robobot were great IMO, while Extra Epic Yarn was more of the same thing (the Wii version) but still decent
> 
> 
> Kwyjor said:
> ...


Hmm, maybe I should give them a check again


----------



## Jayro (Aug 10, 2021)

It a sense, yes... But not entirely.

Their Mario games used to be fun, but after Galaxy 2, they're just kind of "meh" with the new art direction of being super-smooth, cheaply liy, and overall just feel kind of like cookie-cutter CGi characters now. Especially when compared to other Mario variants, like _Super Mario World_ Mario.


----------



## hippy dave (Aug 12, 2021)

Nostalgia is a powerful force, but I like Mario Odyssey a lot more than Super Mario Bros. Depends on the game, some of their recent stuff is great and some of it is wack. I'm not big on their recent-ish kick since the 3DS days of returning to old IPs with experiments in new genres, like Chibi Robo in a platform game, but it wouldn't be so bad if they ALSO released a new game in the traditional genre.
Looking forward to Metroid Dread right now tbh.


----------



## Deleted member 473940 (Aug 12, 2021)

Yes, they have.


----------



## DinohScene (Aug 12, 2021)

Wii/DS era had the last good Nintendo games.


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 12, 2021)

DinohScene said:


> Wii/DS era had the last good Nintendo games.


Well, the Wii U had some great stuff


----------



## CoolMe (Aug 12, 2021)

DinohScene said:


> Wii/DS era had the last good Nintendo games.


I agree, some series like the Mario & Luigi, DK, Mario vs. DK games are all missing this Gen and not on the Switch..
Well for the M&L games, AlphaDream soon went bankrupt so no more of that i guess.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 12, 2021)

I always felt they never were able to match what they did during the NES/Super NES era. They just weren't quite as good after that.

Not that I didn't buy their systems after and I still do, they're still good just not as good.


----------



## CoolMe (Aug 12, 2021)

Well because the state gaming was different back in the NES/SNES era, they defined the sidescrolling genre so of course it had great impact on the industry/and everyone. When they jumped to 3D, Super Mario 64 & LoZ Oot are considered masterpieces, if they were 2D games instead, people would've called them lazy/and the formula is getting stale etc.


----------



## Mama Looigi (Aug 14, 2021)

I was thinking... it was much earlier that the “best games” were coming out

Ocarina of Time is considered one of the best games of all time. 1996 release

Same with Mario 64- 1996
Minecraft released in 2011~ still getting more sales day after day
Spyro and Crash Bandicoot. I don’t  know PlayStation release dates.
The Half-Life series, early 2000’s
Goldeneye 007
Grand Theft Auto- last entry was 2013
The portal games
Red dead redemption
Bioshock
Dark Souls
Resident Evil
Halo
Uncharted
Super Mario Bros.
Fire Emblem
Pokémon
The Zelda series
Final Fantasy
Grim Fandango

So many games
So many series that were considered some of the best of all time

But all of them suffered from something

Some were a one or two title series, never revisited again
(Ex: Grim Fandango, any Valve series)

Some made too many games that became more bland over time and oversaturated in the market, losing their charm and character
(Ex: Pokémon)

Some developers started taking series in a different direction and started losing most of the fans
(Ex: Spyro before the Re. Triology, Zelda in some’s opinions)

Some series have just been all over the place and later entries were a total hit or miss for everyone
(Ex: Final Fantasy)

Some series were just too much of the same thing over time
(Ex: New Super Mario Bros., Pokémon again)


...
Mass Effect
Control
Hades
Tony Hawk’s series
Monster Hunter Rise
Crash Bandicoot 4
NieR Replicant
Scarlet Nexus
Neos: The World Ends With You
Cuphead
Sonic Mania
Super Mario Odyssey
Persona 5


These are some of the latest and greatest games. But hardly considered by many to be GOAT’s.

But more recent games have more and more issues

Some of them try something new and people don’t often learn to accept new things that aren’t done perfectly in their taste

Some games
Despite what their predecessors were-
Are extremely controversial among fans.
Because the series has a reputation which makes it harder in a lot of cases for devs to be more experimental and creative like they were back in the day.

Some struggle to stand out.
There’s now such a wide variety of games. Anyone can find a game they love, but people nowadays can struggle to find a true favorite if they only stick with newer games.
Zombie Shooters- tell me a unique one you’ve seen in the last 5 years.
2D platformers- “oh boy, a new one. Can’t wait for this to either be really hard or really good looking and that’s the only reason someone cares about the game”

There’s a lot of things going on...
Developers sure seem to be losing their spark and creativity. Nintendo is never going to make something that would live up to what Super Mario 64 did. PlayStation is never going to make a new series that’s going to revolutionize anything.
Xbox is Xbox. At least they’re consistent (even if everything they sell is available elsewhere).

But I feel like people are also a part of the problem. The internet too.
“Hype” is people talking up a game before its release. This causes people to get excited about a game not even knowing what to expect.

People didn’t go into Ocarina of Time expecting the greatest game of all time. People didn’t expect to go into Minecraft expecting it to reach the top all time game sales leaderboard and stay there for over 5 years at least.

With the internet hyping things up, people go into new games expecting these kinds of things then get let down when it isn’t perfection to them.
Some people learned by now not to let the hype get to them. But they take it to an extreme and don’t allow any feelings toward new games at all- then only look at them critically while playing them.

Another thing is game discussions on the internet.
Some rando might see a game that interests them. They look it up online. They see someone bashing the game in a review for stupid reasons.
The average person usually gets turned off from the game after that instead of actually forming their own opinion of the game. Thus damaging the game’s performance in the long run.
All due to public blind trust online.



There’s a number of answers for your question.
Personally, I feel the same way. But that’s because I straight up actually play older games and classics more. Whenever I try a new game, there’s a 90% chance I stop caring about it before I even get halfway through. So I do feel like companies have lost something over time.

This response was only regarding the topic for flatscreen games.

VR games right now... yea, there’s like 4 or 5 games to actually keep you coming back
It’s a new industry, and I’ll be honest... so far, the games have nowhere to go but up.
The amount of shovelware and college projects you’ll find around VR stores is annoying, and makes it harder to find the real good titles

Back on topic

Honestly, I don’t see that changing anytime soon. At least, not as long as Nintendo, Xbox, and PlayStation keep doing what they’re doing. Not as long as third party companies and devs really struggle to ever make their game known.

I can only imagine the amounts of special titles will decline over time unfortunately.


----------



## Dancerdude64 (Aug 14, 2021)

I wouldn't say nintendo has "lost its charm". There are still quality games like
Breath of the Wild
Super Mario Odyssey
Animal Corssing
etc

but the number of "low" quality games has gone up such as
Super Mario 3d all stars

I guess it also has to do with the fact that the majority of the people posting here grew up in the golden age of nitnendo (n64/gcube/wii) [like what @ScarletDreamz said] so this is also an opinion.


----------



## Kameryn (Aug 14, 2021)

Amazing topic, I too am feeling this way of late. Like I'm in a relationship that is no longer working but staying out of convenience. 

I think it's inevitable, good things come in waves, and you have to be there at the time to be a part of it. 

Nintendo has come and gone and what remains is artificial, like a vampire I like to think, continuing to live when it's life span has long past. You have to admit that they are rather amazing keeping their IP's so popular and relevant, not even Micky Mouse can say the same. It must also been painful to continually outdo what has come before. What can they do that would be new or better while surpassing 35 years of growing expectations? Thinking about their position gives me anxiety lol. They must be everyone's bigger brother and best friend all the time like a boy band, which inevitably will be fake and even toxic to some extent. Things become more controlled and restrained in order to remain as Nintendo and not become something else. 

None the less, they generally do retain heart in their endeavors, taking their time where possible to make some outstanding products like BOTW and Odyssey, we are very spoiled.

As I grow older I realize that some things done in the past can never be surpassed. There are pieces of software written for Windows 3.1 that are incredibly brilliant for example that get left behind. Better things won't necessarily come from the future. Recently I replayed Super Metroid after ZM, Fusion, AM2R and corruption, and I realized that it was way ahead of its time. It has advanced physics and AI that are not in the other games, it was trickier for me to predict, and overall felt way more kinetic with a world that is more alive and weightier. I was simply astonished how good it is! 

An alternative to these corporate Giants with returning IP's are one offs that come from specific people. Anime like Cowboy bebop that only has  26 episodes, games like F-Zero, hollow knight, half-life, where that's all you get, it retains its soul and has lasting value because it lived and died with its creators. They weren't cloned in a lab, genetically enhanced souless super versions. Hehehe. I enjoy analogies . 

Cheers ^^

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Mama Looigi said:


> I was thinking... it was much earlier that the “best games” were coming out
> 
> Ocarina of Time is considered one of the best games of all time. 1996 release
> 
> ...


Damn, well put!


----------



## Wavy (Aug 14, 2021)

Not really? I can say that modern Nintendo games don't have the exact same charm as their older games but I suppose that's just due to changing times. That's not to say that they don't still have their own charm to them however as they certainly do (Mario Odyssey, BotW, Splatoon, Smash, et al.)


----------



## HiSaturnV (Aug 14, 2021)

I didn't own a Switch in any form until 2020, so I have a bit of catching up to do with regards to Nintendo games, but from what I can tell, if anything, Nintendo seems a bit more experimental with certain IPs than back in the 3DS days.  At least, that's what I gathered, playing through _Breath of the Wild_ and _Fire Emblem: Three Houses_.  I seem to remember, back in the 3DS days, the consensus being that Nintendo was playing it too safe, sticking too much to what they've done before (and thus the recent nostalgia for the era always struck me as kinda weird).

Granted, I didn't really "grow up" with NIntendo; my first console as a kid was a PlayStation 2, and while I had a GBA, I never really played any Nintendo first-party titles on it.  I kinda had to go out of my way to start playing NIntendo games at around 12, when I asked for a DS and got a 3DS.  My point is the nostalgia factor that others have with the company is missing, to a degree, on my end.

I mean, I do see where you're coming from.  I got _Smash Bros. Ultimate_ thinking I would pour hours into it like I did with 4, but all I ended up doing was barely touching World of Light and only occasionally playing the game with friends.  But I'd chalk that up more to me being in a different position than I was in high school.  Video games, as a medium, are getting old enough to the point where we're beginning to see shifts in opinions on games between generations, and oftentimes our opinions aren't as clear-cut and logical as we like to make them out to be, often being influenced by where we were in life at the time.

I guess, just because something is different from what you're used to, doesn't necessarily make it worse.  Times change, and people join and leave studios.  It's best to approach newer games with an open mindset and not get too muddied down in expectations.


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Aug 14, 2021)

Arekkusuda said:


> This can be kinda of a polemic question_statement, but, recently I started to ask myself that question. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, their characters, games, a lot of their consoles, and they have always being a synonymous of quality in my book (With some noticeable exceptions).
> But the more time it passes, the more I feel their new games just aren't nearly as attractive as before, and most of the time I just get bored of them after a few hours of playing (With some exceptions like New Horizons for example).
> A lot of the time, If I choose to play a Nintendo game, 90% of the time is going to be one from an old generation of consoles, probably N64 or Gamecube, cause the new games, while having prettier graphics and textures, they just feel.... boring.
> 
> Does somebody else feels this way too? I will like to hear people's opinion about this topic. And please, try to be civil about this. Thank you


I believe the older we get, the more we view a lot of things in the past with rose-tinted glasses. Nostalgia, essentially. We lose some of that innocence we once had and usually hold older games that we enjoyed a lot when we were younger to higher appeal. Especially as adults when we start taking in more responsibilities, have less time to play games, tastes changing, etc. 

I do agree to an extent that they don't have the same "charm" as with much older games, but I also do think that right now they have a different "charm" that still gets a lot of people in. Times are always changing, after all. Can't stay in one place all the time or else it can get stale, which is probably why Nintendo keeps trying to do new and different things.

Regardless, I'll still keep playing their games for the foreseeable future as usual (unless something drastic happens).


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 15, 2021)

The problem is that Nintendo is kind of left on it's own now, and it's hard to create the same magic in a vacuum. They need a Sega to bring the best out of them, not corporations like Microsoft or Sony.

I also think charm can still be found in pockets though, but mostly in the indie scene now.


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 27, 2021)

Mama Looigi said:


> I was thinking... it was much earlier that the “best games” were coming out
> 
> Ocarina of Time is considered one of the best games of all time. 1996 release
> 
> ...


That is correct
As Nintendo hasn't had a new title that's original
I don't wanna say Nintendo lost their charm, but it's fading away
They need to reel it back in


----------



## RodriGames40 (Aug 27, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> The problem is that Nintendo is kind of left on it's own now, and it's hard to create the same magic in a vacuum. They need a Sega to bring the best out of them, not corporations like Microsoft or Sony.
> 
> I also think charm can still be found in pockets though, but mostly in the indie scene now.



Yeah, this is it. Nintendo doesn't really has any competition to make truly outstanding games anymore, Mario Odyssey and BOTW *needed *to be good just because Wii U failed miserably, and having killer apps for Switch at launch was the key to succeed. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of their games after 2017-2018 have been a bit forgettable or "corporate" like people here are saying, they just don't need to put lots of effort in a single game _yet_. Seems like this is already changing with Metroid 5 finally happening after *19 years, *and the ambitious BOTW sequel officially slated for next year. 

Idk about you guys, but I wouldn't count them "out" yet. They're clearly capable of doing comebacks when expectations are on the floor, so i'll just be optimistic, i'm sure they'll blow us again like they always do.


----------



## hippy dave (Aug 27, 2021)

RodriGames40 said:


> i'm sure they'll blow us again like they always do.


Damn, apparently Nintendo have been holding out on me.


----------



## RodriGames40 (Aug 27, 2021)

hippy dave said:


> Damn, apparently Nintendo have been holding out on me.


*Badum tss*


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 27, 2021)

RodriGames40 said:


> Yeah, this is it. Nintendo doesn't really has any competition to make truly outstanding games anymore, Mario Odyssey and BOTW *needed *to be good just because Wii U failed miserably, and having killer apps for Switch at launch was the key to succeed. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of their games after 2017-2018 have been a bit forgettable or "corporate" like people here are saying, they just don't need to put lots of effort in a single game _yet_. Seems like this is already changing with Metroid 5 finally happening after *19 years, *and the ambitious BOTW sequel officially slated for next year.
> 
> Idk about you guys, but I wouldn't count them "out" yet. They're clearly capable of doing comebacks when expectations are on the floor, so i'll just be optimistic, i'm sure they'll blow us again like they always do.


Excatly, as I said before
They need to reel it back in

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



CoolMe said:


> I agree, some series like the Mario & Luigi, DK, Mario vs. DK games are all missing this Gen and not on the Switch..
> Well for the M&L games, AlphaDream soon went bankrupt so no more of that i guess.


The thing is Wii U had some great titles to
I gotta disagree with Dinoh and you


----------



## RodriGames40 (Aug 27, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Excatly, as I said before
> They need to reel it back in


For now, I'm confident that BOTW2 release will determine if they're still able to make a crack in the gaming landscape. Metroid 5 isn't being made by Nintendo themselves, so I don't think it's fair to label it as what's Nintendo capable of.


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 27, 2021)

RodriGames40 said:


> For now, I'm confident that BOTW2 release will determine if they're still able to make a crack in the gaming landscape. Metroid 5 isn't being made by Nintendo themselves, so I don't think it's fair to label it as what's Nintendo capable of.


I won't say that's gonna determine it fully but don't get me wrong, its gonna be an important factor
However they have to remember other games need the same beauty as others


----------



## RodriGames40 (Aug 27, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I won't say that's gonna determine it fully but don't get me wrong, its gonna be an important factor
> However they have to remember other games need the same beauty as others


That's the thing though, Zelda is one of the highest budget franchises Nintendo currently has, the other ones being Mario, Super Smash Bros and Pokemon (Actually belongs to GF and The Pokemon Company, so I can't really judge them with this). You could say Animal Crossing counts as "high budget" as well, but it doesn't really looks like one.

If in some alternate universe one of these franchises didn't lived up to expectations, this is where we'll be worried, the rest of them will get better or worse over time.


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 27, 2021)

RodriGames40 said:


> That's the thing though, Zelda is one of the highest budget franchises Nintendo currently has, the other ones being Mario, Super Smash Bros and Pokemon (Actually belongs to GF and The Pokemon Company, so I can't really judge them with this). You could say Animal Crossing counts as "high budget" as well, but it doesn't really looks like one.
> 
> If in some alternate universe one of these franchises didn't lived up to expectations, this is where we'll be worried, the rest of them will get better or worse over time.


Well if we look at it in a more statistical and marketing view, Zelda has become less popular over the last decade.
Only the SUPER fans are going pay attention to every little detail in BOTW2.
What about an average gamer
They would want a good that's fun, addicting, heartwarming, etc
However, the exterme Nintendo fans are gonna buy every Zelda game and they're gonna be the most judgemental


----------



## RodriGames40 (Aug 27, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Well if we look at it in a more statistical and marketing view, Zelda has become less popular over the last decade.
> Only the SUPER fans are going pay attention to every little detail in BOTW2.
> What about an average gamer
> They would want a good that's fun, addicting, heartwarming, etc
> However, the exterme Nintendo fans are gonna buy every Zelda game and they're gonna be the most judgemental


In that case, Mario should be the golden standard to judge them in an accurate manner. After all, MK8 Deluxe is still the highest selling game in Switch, and Odyssey was extremely well received at release, while also pulling some big numbers. Now, about Mario spinoffs... 

Geez, they're being handled really badly these days, with some infamous names like Camelot and Intelligent Systems... Let alone M&L sudden death, and there's still no sequel in sight.


----------



## CoolMe (Aug 27, 2021)

CoolMe said:
"I agree, some series like the Mario & Luigi, DK, Mario vs. DK games are all missing this Gen and not on the Switch.. Well for the M&L games, AlphaDream soon went bankrupt so no more of that i guess."



WiiMiiSwitch said:


> The thing is Wii U had some great titles to
> I gotta disagree with Dinoh and you



@WiiMiiSwitch You disagree with me about what exactly?


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Aug 27, 2021)

CoolMe said:


> CoolMe said:
> "I agree, some series like the Mario & Luigi, DK, Mario vs. DK games are all missing this Gen and not on the Switch.. Well for the M&L games, AlphaDream soon went bankrupt so no more of that i guess."
> 
> 
> ...


As the Wii being the last good era


----------



## CoolMe (Aug 27, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> As the Wii being the last good era


Ah, well.. As far as 1st party stuff the WiiU is pretty light, and those series i mentioned above are not on the Switch, apart from ports like Tropical Freeze.


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Sep 4, 2021)

Mama Looigi said:


> Some were a one or two title series, never revisited again
> (Ex: Grim Fandango,


god what i would give for more grim fandango


----------



## wiindsurf (Dec 13, 2021)

I sense Iwata was the secret pixie duster and the company really lost its magic ever since he passed away.
First party titles don't seem as polished and there's way too much cash grabbing with crap mobile apps, junk Lego sets, and rushed licensed merchandising (now sold everywhere).
My kids love Mario and I'm always on the look out for cool toys etc, but damn, all I see is junk...


----------



## Stwert (Dec 30, 2021)

XAIXER said:


> Yep. All about the money now.



It always was


----------



## ital (Dec 30, 2021)

Nintendo are/were bitter the Wii U flopped and their market share eroded. As they should be because it was an awesome platform that the plebs didn't get. The dumb name didn't help because it would've sold like crazy if they just called it the Wii HD and based the marketing campaign on it being an iterative upgrade with its own platform exclusives and full BC.

As a consequence they did the bare minimum with the Switch aside from fill it full of ports from the Wii U as a subtle "told you so" and to recoup.

The lack of Iwata is also very obvious because, like Yamauchi before him, he had a clear vision that drove the company whereas now its a lot more risk averse and feels like its being ran by committee with its eye firmly on the bottom line and doing the bare minimum it needs to hit targets. Remember the "with only one platform to focus on we can double our first party output" and how it smelled just like "No, DS isn't going to replace the GBA. Its a third pillar" PR speak to mask what was obvious. 

Still make some of the best games out there though but the sheen relies on nostalgia, strong IPs and more on what it was than what it is. 

Also the build quality of the OG Switch was absolutely atrocious with cheap plastics and way below their usual tank like standards (esp coming from Wii U/new 3DS levels of quality hardware) and showed the cost cutting. Not to mention the fact it was just a rebranded Nvidia Shield instead of custom hardware, that showed you the shift in direction of the company and this is the way its headed it seems because... "it prints money".


----------



## danielthedud (Jan 27, 2022)

I feel like they really gave a great effort in the Switch's first year because of the Wii U failing, but it feels like because of the overwhelming success they have achieved, they have kinda been slacking off since then. I hope that before the Switch dies out they put some quality stuff on it but we'll see.


----------



## GAPMan (Jan 28, 2022)

It would really suck to see another Wii U but I hope Nintendo sees some more success.


----------



## TomRiddle (Jan 30, 2022)

Depends. 

I think their games are still some of the best in the industry, but maybe it's because I'm older here but the more and more I see Nintendo I start to notice shady and anti-consumer practices, 

(IE, cancelling fan games, being extremely hostile to E-Sports, (Melee is a great example of this)). 

Overall I believe that Nintendo has great games, good artists & developers, dog shit "business practices" and shitty execs.

That's why I believe that while it's fine to completely like and praise something, it's also good to call out it's shortcomings and criticism.

Greatest thing that we as consumers are guilty of is brand loyalty and enabling dog shit practices within any industry, that's why we shouldn't praise any company 100% completely.


----------



## GAPMan (Jan 31, 2022)

I feel very similar to you. I still think Nintendo games are still good but I am becoming more aware of the gaming industry's dark side, Suffice to say, I learned not to be blindly loyalty to any company.


----------



## TomRiddle (Feb 5, 2022)

GAPMan said:


> I feel very similar to you. I still think Nintendo games are still good but I am becoming more aware of the gaming industry's dark side, Suffice to say, I learned not to be blindly loyalty to any company.


Yea, people seem to forget that they don't owe corporations anything and paying them is enough.

Feeling like as though it's a corporation that makes good products is one thing, blindly being loyal to everything about the corporations and the products without calling it's shortcomings is another thing entirely and is unhealthy.


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 5, 2022)

I'd say not completely, but the charm has definitely begun to wane some time ago. There's still some quality stuff coming from Nintendo of course.


----------



## CMDreamer (Feb 5, 2022)

It's just me that thinks so that OP's argument can only be applied to Nintendo? (i.e. interest on their older console games).


----------



## ChiefReginod (Feb 6, 2022)

Iwata was committed to maintaining the core set of business philosophies set by Hiroshi Yamauchi. Once Iwata was gone, Nintendo's new leadership decided to go a different direction.

Currently, they still have the IPs that everyone knows and loves from previous eras, but the core philosophies that pushed the company to multiple creative and financial peaks is different now. I don't think it will happen overnight, but they're probably going to adopt a lot of modern conventions that the old guard never would have allowed. Mobile and PC gaming, for example. They'll have some flash in the pan success as people are excited by the novelty of Nintendo doing such things. Mario Kart on Steam? Big deal for a while, and then eventually they'll be just another publisher.


----------



## Tsukiru (Feb 10, 2022)

It's a mix of nostalgia and wonder and the fact they have changed focus. That focus isn't "all money now," because it was always partially about money. They're a company after all. But they know what sticks and they hone in on that more. See Zelda, it's all on Breath of the Wild and its sequel now. We got Link's Awakening but that's not exactly new, now is it.

They're also in the middle of getting all of their older games, which makes the feeling of "this is just the same" hit harder.


----------

