# Canada Post is in strike, Trudeau wants to ruin democracy



## Noctosphere (Nov 22, 2018)

So yea...
Canada Post is now in strike for few weeks, and now, Trudeau deposed a special law that is being examined
For those who aren't familiar with special law : They force employees to go back to work, otherwise, theyll be charged
My mom works for Canada Post and she told me something funny about this

Back in 2011, Harper was the prime minister of Canada, and he voted a special law against Canada Post as well
And yet, Trudeau was the first to complain about it at the assembly... strange right?

Personally, I think these special law are anti-democratic
There was special law as well back in the student strike in Quebec back in 2011-2012 (iirc)

What are your though about special laws?


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## DarthDub (Nov 22, 2018)

Sucks for them, I guess.


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## Xzi (Nov 23, 2018)

Charging them with crimes seems like a bit much, they should just hire new employees if the current ones refuse to work.  That said, it should've been obvious that a strike like this right before the holiday season wasn't going to go over very well with the government or the citizens.

Trudeau is being a hardass on this, but until Canada elects a Trump-like leader, you won't know what ruining Democracy truly looks like.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Charging them with crimes seems like a bit much, they should just hire new employees if the current ones refuse to work.  That said, it should've been obvious that a strike like this right before the holiday season wasn't going to go over very well with the government or the citizens.
> 
> *Trudeau is being a hardass on this, but until Canada elects a Trump-like leader, you won't know what ruining Democracy truly looks like.*


true
But Harper was a bit like Trump
He was seriously despicing quebecois


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## Xzi (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> true
> But Harper was a bit like Trump
> He was seriously despicing quebecois


Be thankful it was just a bit.  I doubt he went around calling all news media the "enemy of the people," using "alternative facts" and claiming that millions of illegals voted whenever elections didn't go his way.  That's what undermining Democracy really looks like, scenes taken directly from Orwell's 1984.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Be thankful it was just a bit.  I doubt he went around calling all news media the "enemy of the people," using "alternative facts" and claiming that millions of illegals voted whenever elections didn't go his way.  That's what undermining Democracy really looks like, scenes taken directly from Orwell's 1984.


yea you're right^^
Even if Harper was despicing us
I still prefer him to Trump

But still, Harper was very conservative,
I'm they would be good friend him and Trump...


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## Deleted User (Nov 23, 2018)

as someone that's waiting for like 5 things in the mail, as well as looking to get more stuff shipped, their backlog is entirely their fault for going on strike the first time.

i support this. mail isn't something you fuck with, especially not at this time of the year


think of it this way, i'm waiting on a form so i can get prescribed eyeglasses, and with this strike, i'll just have to stay partially blind i guess


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

LiveLatios said:


> as someone that's waiting for like 5 things in the mail, as well as looking to get more stuff shipped, their backlog is entirely their fault for going on strike the first time.
> 
> i support this. mail isn't something you fuck with, especially not at this time of the year


As for not fucking with mail, I totally agree with you
LAst week, my neighbour received a package for me
and even worse, he found it besides his car...
Though, it wasn't Canada Post, so I guess that delivery company doesn't have high standards...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



LiveLatios said:


> as someone that's waiting for like 5 things in the mail, as well as looking to get more stuff shipped, their backlog is entirely their fault for going on strike the first time.
> 
> i support this. mail isn't something you fuck with, especially not at this time of the year
> 
> ...


oh and btw, even with this special law, you probably won't see your package anytime soon
I mean, Canada Post asked China, UK and USA to keep package sent to Canada
And that's not something special law can do anything to

EDIT: NVM, just asked my mom, they do will receive them finally


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## Edgarska (Nov 23, 2018)

You don't actually go into detail as to how forcing post workers to do their job will ruin democracy.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

Edgarska said:


> You don't actually go into detail as to how forcing post workers to do their job will ruin democracy.


going to a strike is a democratic right
Forcing them to go back to work is denying them of a democratic right
Which is anti-democratics


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## Deleted User (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> China, UK and USA


my copy of HL1 is coming from Singapore lol


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## Edgarska (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> going to a strike is a democratic right
> Forcing them to go back to work is denying them of a democratic right
> Which is anti-democratics



It is, I guess I'm looking at this from a  US perspective, not Canadian.
For most Americans, the post office is not something you should disrupt, and I don't know how it is right now, but after the 1970s strike there were some changes to make it harder to strike.


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## Xzi (Nov 23, 2018)

Edgarska said:


> It is, I guess I'm looking at this from a  US perspective, not Canadian.
> For most Americans, the post office is not something you should disrupt, and I don't know how it is right now, but after the 1970s strike there were some changes to make it harder to strike.


True.  Then again, Trump and Republicans have been pushing to privatize the US Post Office for some time now.  That would surely result in a slight disruption at least, not to mention drive up prices and drive down quality of service.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

Edgarska said:


> It is, I guess I'm looking at this from a  US perspective, not Canadian.
> For most Americans, the post office is not something you should disrupt, and I don't know how it is right now, but after the 1970s strike there were some changes to make it harder to strike.


For canadian as well, it's not something you should mess with
But Canada Post is a company like all other and striking is a right they have
Forcing them to return to work is bad imo


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## Edgarska (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> For canadian as well, it's not something you should mess with
> But Canada Post is a company like all other and striking is a right they have
> Forcing them to return to work is bad imo


So it's more like fedex than the US post office?
Then I agree they should have a right to strike, I thought they were like the USPS, which is part of the federal government, kind of.


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## Xzi (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> For canadian as well, it's not something you should mess with
> But Canada Post is a company like all other and striking is a right they have
> Forcing them to return to work is bad imo


Agreed, just hire on whoever will take current wages + ~1.5$ and figure out funding for it later.  Be done with it.  No need to force current workers back in such a hamfisted way.

Edit: not to say they don't deserve much higher wages, but that's being realistic with the way capitalism works.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

Edgarska said:


> So it's more like fedex than the US post office?
> Then I agree they should have a right to strike, I thought they were like the USPS, which is part of the federal government, kind of.


Actually, Canada Post do is owned by federal government
But still, they have the right to strike


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## Taleweaver (Nov 23, 2018)

Hmm...our local post office (BPost) was on strike some weeks ago as well. I'm not sure how it got resolved, but I suppose with raises and/or better working conditions. With good reason: people hardly send letters anymore (that's all e-mail now), but have things shipped more than ever. Whenever the garbage men come to pick up carbon & paper, you can just count whomever ordered from bol.com, amazon or similar web-based deliveries. It's only fair that if deliveries get larger and heavier, the postmen need to be compensated better. If that doesn't happen (enough), it's only logical to go on strike. You would to that too if you're getting payed to carry a bag of letters while you're in reality carrying more packages than Santa Claus.

@Noctosphere : I haven't followed the situation in Canada, so...what does that proposal mean, exactly? I won't deny that some packages are very important (organ transplants or medical supplies, for example), but AFAIK the majority are just luxury products. For the most part, these packages aren't filling a real need to someone, so it would seem to me that it's pretty hard to argue that it's a crime ("this lady had to wait FIVE EXTRA DAYS for her new hair dryer. Five days! Can you imagine how terrible it must be for her to wait for it and use her old one? She even contemplated GOING OUTSIDE THE DOOR to buy a hair dryer IN AN ACTUAL STORE!!!!").



LiveLatios said:


> as someone that's waiting for like 5 things in the mail, as well as looking to get more stuff shipped, their backlog is entirely their fault for going on strike the first time.


Look...If you order 5+ items, your neighbor orders 5+ items and everyone in the street orders 5+ items (which is pretty likely, considering black friday is apparently a worldwide phenomenon now), then one postman that somehow has to deliver all that isn't going to cut it. Give him or her some slack, will you? Or apply for the job yourself if you think their working conditions aren't that bad.

As for "their backlog is entirely their fault"...that's an easy truism. People tend to go on strike when their workload is too large, not "just because". As such, a backlog is a logical consequence of the strike (fuck...I'd even consider a strike that doesn't generate a backlog one where with false intentions).


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## DarthDub (Nov 23, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> Hmm...our local post office (BPost) was on strike some weeks ago as well. I'm not sure how it got resolved, but I suppose with raises and/or better working conditions. With good reason: people hardly send letters anymore (that's all e-mail now), but have things shipped more than ever. Whenever the garbage men come to pick up carbon & paper, you can just count whomever ordered from bol.com, amazon or similar web-based deliveries. It's only fair that if deliveries get larger and heavier, the postmen need to be compensated better. If that doesn't happen (enough), it's only logical to go on strike. You would to that too if you're getting payed to carry a bag of letters while you're in reality carrying more packages than Santa Claus.
> 
> @Noctosphere : I haven't followed the situation in Canada, so...what does that proposal mean, exactly? I won't deny that some packages are very important (organ transplants or medical supplies, for example), but AFAIK the majority are just luxury products. For the most part, these packages aren't filling a real need to someone, so it would seem to me that it's pretty hard to argue that it's a crime ("this lady had to wait FIVE EXTRA DAYS for her new hair dryer. Five days! Can you imagine how terrible it must be for her to wait for it and use her old one? She even contemplated GOING OUTSIDE THE DOOR to buy a hair dryer IN AN ACTUAL STORE!!!!").
> 
> ...


There are people that get their medical supplies through the mail.


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## DayVeeBoi (Nov 23, 2018)

Canada Post is owned by the govt, but the thing is that they turn a pretty good profit every single year ($80,000,000 about on average just from the top of my head). They just gave all these workers that work rural routes delivering to like under 100 houses a day a raise, while all these urban workers (delivering to several hundred homes a day) got dick all.

Let me preface this with; I am a fan of Trudeau and Social Justice, but I am not a fan of Social Justice Warriors and PC culture. The reaso2n these rural workers got raises so easily was because they are in the majority women, so it was an easy and popular choice for him. The thing about that is, the reason it's mostly women is because they have much more flexibility in these shifts. That way they can have time for family and having kids etc.

There's nothing wrong with that, but I can see why the rest of the workforce is still pissed off.
To be clear, they are not on a total strike. Important government mail still gets through, and I can't speak for this commentors prescription, but my local mail has not been (seriously) disrupted. I don't have an answer for this (other than I support the postal workers), I just wanted to add some nuance for our American  Non-Canuckistan Temp-sters.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

DarthDub said:


> There are people that get their medical supplies through the mail.


IDK how it works in usa
but here, delivered medecine isnt delivered by canada post or any delivery company
it's delivered by drug store delivery boy


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## DarthDub (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> IDK how it works in usa
> but here, delivered medecine isnt delivered by canada post or any delivery company
> it's delivered by drug store delivery boy


That's a relief.


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## DayVeeBoi (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> IDK how it works in usa
> but here, delivered medecine isnt delivered by canada post or any delivery company
> it's delivered by drug store delivery boy


Some people do get medical stuff through the mail, glasses (I got my new ones just fine last week), diabetics often buy syringes through mail as it is often cheaper


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## leon315 (Nov 23, 2018)

ask ur mom to change job, if the actual one sucks.

Simple isn't it?


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## Taleweaver (Nov 23, 2018)

DarthDub said:


> There are people that get their medical supplies through the mail.


Yes. Thanks for mentioning what I wrote. So...you want to elaborate, or did you just want to chime in 2 cents?


EDIT: just now read that it wasn't even true to begin with (gotta love multiple pages  ).


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## Deleted User (Nov 23, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> considering black friday is apparently a worldwide phenomenon now),


lol i didn't order anything for black friday, i'm totally broke


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## Noctosphere (Nov 23, 2018)

LiveLatios said:


> lol i didn't order anything for black friday, i'm totally broke


even if im broke, I'll load my credit card, and pay it with next wage
It's better than paying the full price later 
Also, don't forget Cyber Monday


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## Deleted User (Nov 23, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> even if im broke, I'll load my credit card, and pay it with next wage
> It's better than paying the full price later
> Also, don't forget Cyber Monday


don't have a credit card, and my bank doesn't support those fancy "advanced" debit cards


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## SG854 (Nov 23, 2018)

Xzi said:


> True.  Then again, Trump and Republicans have been pushing to privatize the US Post Office for some time now.  That would surely result in a slight disruption at least, not to mention drive up prices and drive down quality of service.


The USPS is loosing billions $ every year.


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## DayVeeBoi (Nov 23, 2018)

SG854 said:


> The USPS is loosing billions $ every year.


That's true, they're basically subsidizing China's shipping due to like a 150 year old treaty. Does that mean that USPS is not turning a profit though? I know Canada is for sure because they put the numbers out every year. In 2017 they turned $140 million, and in 2016 they made $80 million. I don't think that the USPS should just ignore a treaty, but I do think there's gotta be some room for the changes in global economics over the last 100 years or whatever. US retailers are suffering because of it.

Edit: Wow, apparently 2017 was the 11th straight year of running at a net loss for USPS--> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-postal-service-marks-11-straight-years-of-financial-loss


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## SG854 (Nov 24, 2018)

DayVeeBoi said:


> That's true, they're basically subsidizing China's shipping due to like a 150 year old treaty. Does that mean that USPS is not turning a profit though? I know Canada is for sure because they put the numbers out every year. In 2017 they turned $140 million, and in 2016 they made $80 million. I don't think that the USPS should just ignore a treaty, but I do think there's gotta be some room for the changes in global economics over the last 100 years or whatever. US retailers are suffering because of it.
> 
> Edit: Wow, apparently 2017 was the 11th straight year of running at a net loss for USPS--> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-postal-service-marks-11-straight-years-of-financial-loss


They generated 67 billion in revenue in 2013. But that was not enough to cover expenses because they lost 5 billion that year.

They lost 15 billion in 2012.

They can’t raise prices to make up for their expenses either, people would be against that. And congress won’t let them. They need approval of congress to make decisions. 

People are using email instead. They are going to get serious competition from other mail services that are going to use drones and robots.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 24, 2018)

SG854 said:


> They generated 67 billion in revenue in 2013. But that was not enough to cover expenses because they lost 5 billion that year.
> 
> They lost 15 billion in 2012.
> 
> ...


has amazon already started to deliever with drone in usa?
I know it was in their plan back in early 2010's


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## medoli900 (Nov 24, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> Hmm...our local post office (BPost) was on strike some weeks ago as well. I'm not sure how it got resolved, but I suppose with raises and/or better working conditions. With good reason: people hardly send letters anymore (that's all e-mail now), but have things shipped more than ever. Whenever the garbage men come to pick up carbon & paper, you can just count whomever ordered from bol.com, amazon or similar web-based deliveries. It's only fair that if deliveries get larger and heavier, the postmen need to be compensated better. If that doesn't happen (enough), it's only logical to go on strike. You would to that too if you're getting payed to carry a bag of letters while you're in reality carrying more packages than Santa Claus.
> 
> @Noctosphere : I haven't followed the situation in Canada, so...what does that proposal mean, exactly? I won't deny that some packages are very important (organ transplants or medical supplies, for example), but AFAIK the majority are just luxury products. For the most part, these packages aren't filling a real need to someone, so it would seem to me that it's pretty hard to argue that it's a crime ("this lady had to wait FIVE EXTRA DAYS for her new hair dryer. Five days! Can you imagine how terrible it must be for her to wait for it and use her old one? She even contemplated GOING OUTSIDE THE DOOR to buy a hair dryer IN AN ACTUAL STORE!!!!").
> 
> ...


I have a double nationality, so if the consulate try to send me urgent/time-gated forms (say voting forms for example), it has to pass through the mail, mail that is handled by post Canada.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 24, 2018)

medoli900 said:


> I have a double nationality, so if the consulate try to send me urgent/time-gated forms (say voting forms for example), it has to pass through the mail, mail that is handled by post Canada.


Lavander Town is located in Kanto, not in Canada
You won't fool me 

On a serious note, I think the special law will be voted this week-end


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## Hanafuda (Nov 24, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Trudeau is being a hardass on this, but *until Canada elects a Trump-like leader, you won't know what ruining Democracy truly looks like*.




You're delusional.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 24, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> You're delusional.


Haha, by saying that, i think you are lol


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## Xzi (Nov 24, 2018)

SG854 said:


> The USPS is loosing billions $ every year.


True, but we pay for it one way or another, whether it be through taxes or increased shipping costs should they privatize.  We've also already got two or three large private competitors in the US, so there's not much point in removing the one public sector option we have.



Hanafuda said:


> You're delusional.


Oh.  I must have just hallucinated Trump praising despots and disparaging our allies the world over.  Good to know that this administration has everything under control, and totally _isn't_ a dumpster fire that ignores journalists being sawed into pieces in exchange for Saudi blood money.  /s


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## Hanafuda (Nov 24, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> Haha, by saying that, i think you are lol




I'm just saying regardless of a person's position re: President Trump, to say he has 'ruined democracy' is about as hyperbolic as it gets.

Compared to actions of previous Presidents, nothing Trump has actually done even make the needle shake on the outrageous-meter


Lincoln - suspended habeus corpus, jailed a federal judge and a member of Congress for opposing him

Wilson - hardcore believer in eugenics

Cleveland - raped a woman and then forced her to put the baby in an orphanage

Harding - Teapot Dome (look it up, _proven_ high-level corruption)

FDR - Japanese internment camps

Truman - blatant racist

LBJ - more racist than Truman, liked to take his dick out and show it off

Nixon - was Nixon

Reagan - Iran-Contra

Clinton - perjury, missile strikes to attempt suppression of his scandals, sold defense tech to China




Xzi said:


> Oh.  I must have just hallucinated Trump praising despots and disparaging our allies the world over.  Good to know that this administration has everything under control, and totally _isn't_ a dumpster fire that ignores journalists being sawed into pieces in exchange for Saudi blood money.  /s



Never said I like the guy that much, or agree with him on every position either - but he's the President and he's entitled to exercise the authority of the office. He's doing about par for the course on the good stuff/bad stuff compared against all the previous administrations I can remember. Doing better than Carter I'd say, that was just sad. As for the Saudi assassination thing, that's Turkey's problem. Happened on their territory. Kashoggi was a Saudi, I don't see where it's of interest to the US government. 

For the sake of proportion, you're using the death of one person to smear the current President for not acting. In 2013, Obama declared a "red line," which Syria crossed by killing over 1,500 people, including over 400 children, and despite his earlier declaration of a, "red line," Obama did nothing.


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## Xzi (Nov 24, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> I'm just saying regardless of a person's position re: President Trump, to say he has 'ruined democracy' is about as hyperbolic as it gets.


I'm not saying he _has_ ruined Democracy, only that he's trying his hardest.



Hanafuda said:


> Compared to actions of previous Presidents, nothing Trump has actually done even make the needle shake on the outrageous-meter
> 
> 
> Lincoln - suspended habeus corpus, jailed a federal judge and a member of Congress for opposing him
> ...


You can draw parallels to Trump with at least four of those.  I shouldn't have to explain which, but let me know if you want me to.  I also don't think that much of this was a threat to Democracy, morally reprehensible as it might be.  Questioning election results and calling the people that keep us informed "enemies" are how most despots get their start.  As a matter of fact, those are strategies that Trump took directly from Putin, who rules over a country which no longer has any form of true Democracy.


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## JeepX87 (Nov 24, 2018)

You should be lucky that Canada is very union friendly country, but not case in the US, so I'm definitely sure that foreigners don't know about "right to work" law means, so it allow employees in unionized workplace to not pay dues and still take advantage of union benefits. Public employees are right to work in all states now due to US Supreme Court order, so it could be possible to expand to private employees.

As for strike in the US, the state governors and president can invoke Taft-Hartley Act to force you go back to work, or you could be fired or arrested.



Noctosphere said:


> true
> But Harper was a bit like Trump
> He was seriously despicing quebecois



Harper seems more like G.W. Bush and Canada would go crazy if it was Trump-style leader, so it could lead to border war with the US.


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## JeepX87 (Nov 24, 2018)

DayVeeBoi said:


> That's true, they're basically subsidizing China's shipping due to like a 150 year old treaty. Does that mean that USPS is not turning a profit though? I know Canada is for sure because they put the numbers out every year. In 2017 they turned $140 million, and in 2016 they made $80 million. I don't think that the USPS should just ignore a treaty, but I do think there's gotta be some room for the changes in global economics over the last 100 years or whatever. US retailers are suffering because of it.
> 
> Edit: Wow, apparently 2017 was the 11th straight year of running at a net loss for USPS--> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-postal-service-marks-11-straight-years-of-financial-loss





Xzi said:


> True, but we pay for it one way or another, whether it be through taxes or increased shipping costs should they privatize.  We've also already got two or three large private competitors in the US, so there's not much point in removing the one public sector option we have.
> 
> 
> Oh.  I must have just hallucinated Trump praising despots and disparaging our allies the world over.  Good to know that this administration has everything under control, and totally _isn't_ a dumpster fire that ignores journalists being sawed into pieces in exchange for Saudi blood money.  /s



USPS lost too much money because the Congress force USPS to fund the pension, but none of other government agencies required to fund, so it started in 2006.

Of course, USPS is in huge mess and post office in our area hasn't renovated since opened in 1970s, everything looks 1970s.

Moderators, my apology for double post and I thought it would be merged automatically.


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## Xzi (Nov 24, 2018)

JeepX87 said:


> USPS lost too much money because the Congress force USPS to fund the pension, but none of other government agencies required to fund, so it started in 2006.
> 
> Of course, USPS is in huge mess and post office in our area hasn't renovated since opened in 1970s, everything looks 1970s.
> 
> Moderators, my apology for double post and I thought it would be merged automatically.


Oh, that makes sense, thanks for informing me.  Yeah, USPS I know can be a mess in rural and some suburban areas, but their facilities in medium/large cities seem to be pretty nice.


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## DayVeeBoi (Nov 24, 2018)

JeepX87 said:


> Harper seems more like G.W. Bush and Canada would go crazy if it was Trump-style leader, so it could lead to border war with the US.



Harper _loved_ Bush. He got a mold of his dick cast in resin and walked around with it up his ass for _seven _years!

On a more serious note, I do agree with some of what @Hanafuda says regarding Trump's actual effect (so far anyway) he seems about par for the course, about the same as Bush two (minus the warring, but he's got some time to catch up). Harper was pretty sharp in comparison, he would've been much more dangerous as a president than Trump could ever be. He fucking waged a war on scientists and their funding, and renamed the government after himself. Just a dick.

Just to be clear, I can't stand any politicians. They're all fucking morons and politics is a joke. No,I don't have any better ideas how to get shit done as a country, but then again I'm not one of the greatest minds this world has to offer. We  have lots of smart and dedicated folks out there that might have some ideas how to fix it, but you can be sure they're nowhere near politics. Maybe that's what needs to get fixed, I don't know (maybe its politics itself that turns good folks into douchebags).


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## SG854 (Nov 24, 2018)

Xzi said:


> True, but we pay for it one way or another, whether it be through taxes or increased shipping costs should they privatize.  We've also already got two or three large private competitors in the US, so there's not much point in removing the one public sector option we have.
> 
> 
> Oh.  I must have just hallucinated Trump praising despots and disparaging our allies the world over.  Good to know that this administration has everything under control, and totally _isn't_ a dumpster fire that ignores journalists being sawed into pieces in exchange for Saudi blood money.  /s


Either way Private or Public costs will be the same. One may be more expensive if it’s less efficient then the other.

USPS is suppose to be self sustaining. And is not directly funded by our tax dollars. And is dependent on sales.

Though they may be funded indirectly and get certain exemptions and Tax Breaks, which people will argue they shouldn’t be taxed because mail is a neccesity. And UPS and Fed Ex uses the USPS for their slower mailing deliveries because it’s cheaper through them.

They are still loosing money and need to reform things to stop loosing money (Congress puts a strain on them). And innovate and keep up with the times.


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## Whole lotta love (Nov 24, 2018)

Solidarity with the striking workers.

Workplaces should be democratically run.


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## SG854 (Nov 24, 2018)

JeepX87 said:


> USPS lost too much money because the Congress force USPS to fund the pension, but none of other government agencies required to fund, so it started in 2006.
> 
> Of course, USPS is in huge mess and post office in our area hasn't renovated since opened in 1970s, everything looks 1970s.
> 
> Moderators, my apology for double post and I thought it would be merged automatically.


It’s 5 billion for pension. It’s an expense they need to make up some way. Tax Breaks alone should cover 2 billion of this cost.


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## Xzi (Nov 25, 2018)

DayVeeBoi said:


> Just to be clear, I can't stand any politicians. They're all fucking morons and politics is a joke.


That's unfortunately symbolic of our entire country and society at the moment.  People elect morons because of anti-intellectualism, morons in office make morons at large feel smarter.  Politics will remain a joke as long as we continue treating it like one by electing incompetent and ignorant individuals.  As the saying goes, elect a clown, expect a circus.  What we need is far more people with STEM degrees in politics, but as usual, most people wouldn't even be able to agree on that.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 25, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That's unfortunately symbolic of our entire country and society at the moment.  People elect morons because of anti-intellectualism, morons in office make morons at large feel smarter.  Politics will remain a joke as long as we continue treating it like one by electing incompetent and ignorant individuals.  As the saying goes, elect a clown, expect a circus.  What we need is far more people with STEM degrees in politics, but as usual, most people wouldn't even be able to agree on that.


Here in Quebec, we just elected a new government
For the past 50 years, it always was the same two parties
But now this new government is promising
That new party is mainly composed of businessmen
Seriously, we expect a lot from that "private party"


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## Xzi (Nov 25, 2018)

Noctosphere said:


> Here in Quebec, we just elected a new government
> For the past 50 years, it always was the same two parties
> But now this new government is promising
> That new party is mainly composed of businessmen
> Seriously, we expect a lot from that "private party"


Oof, that doesn't sound that promising.  Running a country like a business just means a quicker transition from a Democracy/Republic to an Oligarchy.


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## JeepX87 (Nov 25, 2018)

DayVeeBoi said:


> Harper _loved_ Bush. He got a mold of his dick cast in resin and walked around with it up his ass for _seven _years!
> 
> On a more serious note, I do agree with some of what @Hanafuda says regarding Trump's actual effect (so far anyway) he seems about par for the course, about the same as Bush two (minus the warring, but he's got some time to catch up). Harper was pretty sharp in comparison, he would've been much more dangerous as a president than Trump could ever be. He fucking waged a war on scientists and their funding, and renamed the government after himself. Just a dick.
> 
> Just to be clear, I can't stand any politicians. They're all fucking morons and politics is a joke. No,I don't have any better ideas how to get shit done as a country, but then again I'm not one of the greatest minds this world has to offer. We  have lots of smart and dedicated folks out there that might have some ideas how to fix it, but you can be sure they're nowhere near politics. Maybe that's what needs to get fixed, I don't know (maybe its politics itself that turns good folks into douchebags).



That what I think about our country too. I absolutely despise SJW and PC crap and usually side with centrist to leftist wing. Our government, including states are fucking incompetent and too sensitive. Yes, our country is very divided and don't know about Canada.

Some people told me that I'm too outsider to be in southern state and told me that I need move to Canada and deal with crazy winter. Southern states are very conservative and religious, so move out of southern state is best solution, however South Florida (South of Disney World), North Virginia and South Texas aren't southern culture at all. I'm no religious and don't believe in biblical stuffs.

As for Canada, I wouldn't have to deal with language barrier because they use same sign language as US did but English is slightly different, more like UK English. They have good DeafBlind communities that I heard.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 25, 2018)

JeepX87 said:


> That what I think about our country too. I absolutely despise SJW and PC crap and usually side with centrist to leftist wing. Our government, including states are fucking incompetent and too sensitive. Yes, our country is very divided and don't know about Canada.
> 
> Some people told me that I'm too outsider to be in southern state and told me that I need move to Canada and deal with crazy winter. Southern states are very conservative and religious, so move out of southern state is best solution, however South Florida (South of Disney World), North Virginia and South Texas aren't southern culture at all. I'm no religious and don't believe in biblical stuffs.
> 
> As for Canada, I wouldn't have to deal with language barrier because they use same sign language as US did but English is slightly different, more like UK English. They have good DeafBlind communities that I heard.


funny thing about canada is that we do have a leftism system
However, we keep electing rightist governement 
As for other provincial government, im not very aware of their position
but for Quebec provincial and federal government, they've been rightist for a long long while
In Quebec, we just elected a rightist governement
As for Canada, federal's election are next year, in October 2019
And polls say that liberals are favorite so far


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## medoli900 (Nov 25, 2018)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
The CAQ? PROMISING? Let me laugh please. We just elected a government that promise to reduce the taxes of the rich and big company (increasing the rich-poor gap, eliminating the middle-class), and finance the private school instead of the public one (increasing even further the gap between the rich and poor, since the rich will get a better education and the poor will just have to stay poor).


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## Viri (Nov 27, 2018)

Forcing people to go back to work via a threat of criminal charges just sounds fucked up. I don't think I've ever heard of a government threatening employees to work, or they'll get arrested. That sounds like shit that happened in the early 1900's in the US. Give them an ultimatum, either get back to work, or you'll be replaced.


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## linuxares (Nov 27, 2018)

In most countries there is laws on HOW you are allowed to strike. You can't just go outside the door and say "They are being a bit rude with removing our free donuts! Let's strike!". Mostly it's required by unions to issue the strikes, since they must pay for the strikers salory.

So I don't know what the Canada Post workers strike for at the moment, since there is no info in the OP about it.


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## Noctosphere (Nov 27, 2018)

Viri said:


> Forcing people to go back to work via a threat of criminal charges just sounds fucked up. I don't think I've ever heard of a government threatening employees to work, or they'll get arrested. That sounds like shit that happened in the early 1900's in the US. Give them an ultimatum, either get back to work, or you'll be replaced.


well actually. it's either you go to work, or you get a 1000$ penalty per day


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## dimmidice (Nov 27, 2018)

How is it undemocratic? Really can't see how democracy is related to this at all.


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## linuxares (Nov 27, 2018)

dimmidice said:


> How is it undemocratic? Really can't see how democracy is related to this at all.


It's undemocratic that the goverment is going in and removing the strike right, that is a weapon that unions can use against a workplace if they can't reach an agreement.


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## Subtle Demise (Nov 27, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> I'm just saying regardless of a person's position re: President Trump, to say he has 'ruined democracy' is about as hyperbolic as it gets.
> 
> Compared to actions of previous Presidents, nothing Trump has actually done even make the needle shake on the outrageous-meter
> 
> ...


How could you leave out George W. Bush? His rap sheet is way longer than any of those. Patriot Act, executive orders, emergency powers, etc. And Obama's NDAA.


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## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 27, 2018)

hopefully justin doesn't become the new trump...


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## dimmidice (Nov 27, 2018)

linuxares said:


> It's undemocratic that the goverment is going in and removing the strike right, that is a weapon that unions can use against a workplace if they can't reach an agreement.


And why is this undemocratic? It's not doing anything against the democratic process. The government doesn't hold a country wide vote for every issue. You vote for people. Those people make the decisions. In this case they might decide to allow the strike bill. Or they might not. That's democracy at work.


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## linuxares (Nov 27, 2018)

dimmidice said:


> And why is this undemocratic? It's not doing anything against the democratic process. The government doesn't hold a country wide vote for every issue. You vote for people. Those people make the decisions. In this case they might decide to allow the strike bill. Or they might not. That's democracy at work.


I think you need to check how Unions work and how they protect the rights of the worker.


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## dimmidice (Nov 27, 2018)

linuxares said:


> I think you need to check how Unions work and how they protect the rights of the worker.


I think you need to read up on what democracy is. Democracy has nothing to do with rights. It's purely a voting system. That's it.


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## linuxares (Nov 27, 2018)

dimmidice said:


> I think you need to read up on what democracy is. Democracy has nothing to do with rights. It's purely a voting system. That's it.


No, it's a whole package. "rule by the people". We vote for representatives and to silence your people is a first step to a dictatorship, is what most people mean. So yes, the "democracy" makes the rights here.


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## dimmidice (Nov 27, 2018)

linuxares said:


> No, it's a whole package. "rule by the people". We vote for representatives and to silence your people is a first step to a dictatorship, is what most people mean. So yes, the "democracy" makes the rights here.


Sure. But this isn't ruining democracy. As this isn't affecting how democracy works at all. So saying "trudeau wants to ruin democracy" is just a clickbait bs title.


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## linuxares (Nov 27, 2018)

dimmidice said:


> Sure. But this isn't ruining democracy. As this isn't affecting how democracy works at all. So saying "trudeau wants to ruin democracy" is just a clickbait bs title.


Oh yeah, that's true  I never read the title xD


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## SG854 (Nov 27, 2018)

medoli900 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
> The CAQ? PROMISING? Let me laugh please. We just elected a government that promise to reduce the taxes of the rich and big company (increasing the rich-poor gap, eliminating the middle-class), and finance the private school instead of the public one (increasing even further the gap between the rich and poor, since the rich will get a better education and the poor will just have to stay poor).


IPhones. Unlimited knowledge of the world in your finger tips. 71% of Canadians own a smart phone.

In the United States 67% of people making less then $30,000 has a smart phone. The majority of people with lower income has a smart phone and numbers are growing every year, overall 77% has a smart phone.

Not having access to information and education isn’t an excuse anymore. And every year it’s getting smaller.


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## Attacker3 (Nov 27, 2018)

SG854 said:


> iPhones. Unlimited knowledge of the world in your finger tips. 71% of Canadians own a smart phone.
> 
> In the United States 67% of people making less then $30,000 has a smart phone. The majority of people with lower income has a smart phone and numbers are growing every year.
> 
> Not having access to information education isn’t an excuse anymore. And every year it’s getting smaller.


Not to mention that even if you don't own a phone or a computer, there are things called books which are located in libraries. Funny concept, right? Anyways, every library I've been in has computers as well.

But the reason why people are poor and take welfare and stuff is because it's easy to do. The costs of trying to better yourself, meaning the cost of time and money isn't justified when we look at the rewards of doing so. Before, improving yourself would mean eating better meals and living in a nicer house, but when you many of the necessities of life paid for, what's the point? You can work and use the money you make to pay for nicer food to supplement the food you get as welfare, and while that's fine and dandy, but it just makes people complacent about their place in life.

We need to cut most taxes and programs to help the poor, because it's not helping them, it's hurting them. When continuously give an animal food, they become dependent on them, and humans are no different. When you get the 30 year olds living with their mothers, that's not because they can't leave the house, it's because they've become so used to living with their parents and having everything paid for them, why would they improve themselves and get a job, or go to school, or work more? The same goes for the government, just replace the 30 year old with a welfare recipient and the government with a parent. You need to push them out of the "house" and they'll either sink or swim, but it will be up to them to decide if they want to succeed or not.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also, I see no issue with Trudeau telling them to get back to work. It's their right to strike, and it's the employer's right to tell them to knock it off. The only reason this is a bill is because it's a federal service and not a private one. Individuals can leave the job if they want to, but if they try and continue to mess with the postal service as a worker of the postal service, they'll be slapped with a 1,000 dollar fine. It's 50,000 dollars if you're the manager or something like that. Also, if you don't pay the fine, you're not going to jail, but I don't know the specifics of it. All in all, the postal workers are being whiny bitches. They get paid extremely well, like an absurd amount for what amounts to driving a car or sorting mail. *Huge difference between forcing them to go to work, and fining them for messing with the postal service while still employed.*


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## SG854 (Nov 27, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Not to mention that even if you don't own a phone or a computer, there are things called books which are located in libraries. Funny concept, right? Anyways, every library I've been in has computers as well.
> 
> But the reason why people are poor and take welfare and stuff is because it's easy to do. The costs of trying to better yourself, meaning the cost of time and money isn't justified when we look at the rewards of doing so. Before, improving yourself would mean eating better meals and living in a nicer house, but when you many of the necessities of life paid for, what's the point? You can work and use the money you make to pay for nicer food to supplement the food you get as welfare, and while that's fine and dandy, but it just makes people complacent about their place in life.
> 
> ...


People say they are poor because Greedy corporations doesn’t pay them a living 15 Dollar Wage.

Walmart for example makes 495,761 billion Net Sales. This is not profit though.

After all operating costs they make 9,862 billion in profit. Only about 2% of the billions they make is actual profit.

Workers get paid first before CEO. Only CEO gets paid if they make profit.

If we took the 9.86 Billion in profit and spread it evenly to their 2.2 million employees, and factor in the average hours worked by Americans 1,790 a year, they would only get $2.50 an hour raise. And there won’t be any money left over for the CEO.

This would not cover the $15 minimum wage. They can’t afford it.

Doug McMillon makes 22 million a year. If you take his wages and divide it equally to the 2.2 million workers everyone will get a whole 11 dollars extra a year, WOW! Not enough to buy yourself a 3DS game. Not enough to lift anyone out of poverty. And he won’t have any money for himself either. Who cares he can find food in the trash.

Walmart 2018 Annual Report.


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## Attacker3 (Nov 28, 2018)

SG854 said:


> People say they are poor because Greedy corporations doesn’t pay them a living 15 Dollar Wage.
> 
> Walmart for example makes 495,761 billion Net Sales. This is not profit though.
> 
> ...



Exactly, most companies in the USA operate on a very, VERY tight budget, and to say that just bumping up the minimum wage ignores this and also ignores the inflation that will occur because of it.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Nov 28, 2018)

You still think democracy exists, that's kinda adorable.


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## Noctosphere (Dec 11, 2018)

WOW
An american syndicate came to Montreal to make a blocade around Canada post workplace
Canada Post trucks can't reach the workplace


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## Noctosphere (Dec 11, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Oh yeah, that's true  I never read the title xD


actually, striking is a democratic right from my point of view...


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