# Microsoft Creative Director Comments on Always-Online



## BasedKiliK (Apr 5, 2013)

Just incredible. Adam Orth, aka "Sweet Billy", a creative director at Microsoft Studios, decided to comment about the always-online rumors of the upcoming NextBox/Durango.



Spoiler
















 
Ever since his twitter feed went public (which is now locked), this news has basically spread all across the Internet. Not only that, but another confirmed developer had his own comment:

_"Given that legally I cannot confirm or deny if this information is true, nor can I comment on rumor or speculation, all I can say is be sure to pay your ISP bills."_

So that pretty much confirms that Microsoft's next console will require a constant online connection.

NEOGAF

I've literally been watching this entire thing derail for the last few hours, and it's fucking hilarious.


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## emigre (Apr 5, 2013)

That's a class response from Orthy at the end there.

EDIT: I swear half the threads here are stolen from Neogaf.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 5, 2013)

the guy sounds like a real stuck up asshole welp cross the nextbox off my list of consoles to buy


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## KingVamp (Apr 5, 2013)

This is amusing and even more if always online stays on their next console.


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## porkiewpyne (Apr 5, 2013)

He later tweeted that it was just him trolling his friend Manveer (like he usually does apparently.) and he didn't mean to insult anyone... Yeeaaaaaa sure.

Not sure if true or just trying to find something to save face :\

Oh and when he said "always on" he said that he was referring to the console being switched on like a fridge and not being always online.


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## Snailface (Apr 5, 2013)

For once I commend neogaf. By making a huge stink out of this, MS will most likely have to bend to public pressure and nix the force-connect policy.

I'm glad for it, mainly because I tend to lose internet access when it rains. (dsl mystery)


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## Rydian (Apr 5, 2013)

Snailface said:


> I'm glad for it, mainly because I tend to lose internet access when it rains. (dsl mystery)


In cases where I've seen this, somebody left one of the lids/openings on the line box at the pole open, and it floods when it rains so the shutoff switch trips, and then trips back when the water has drained.

I can't give any specific details as I've never actually seen the box, being a customer and all that jazz, and it could be something else depending on the system you use.


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## Rizsparky (Apr 5, 2013)

Once they realise that this isnt what customers want, they will have to change something or have an excellent marketing campaign outlining the advantages on a 'always' online model.


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## Gahars (Apr 5, 2013)

emigre said:


> I swear half the threads here are stolen from Neogaf.


 
More like Neo-gaffes, am I right?


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## Ethevion (Apr 5, 2013)

Well that confirms it. The next box is off my shopping list. PS4, here I come!


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## narutofan777 (Apr 5, 2013)

LOL. I didn't know microsoft would become so @#@#@#@.


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## pokefloote (Apr 5, 2013)

That doesn't confirm anything. 

"Pay your ISP bill." Uh, yeah, because that's what you're supposed to do. You can't just rack up charges and stop paying it. They can't truly comment on it, so they haven't.


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## Hells Malice (Apr 5, 2013)

gg killing half their userbase if they try to do something stupid like Always-Online.
If everyone has the same opinion at microsoft as that ignorant douche, I have a feeling they wont realize anything before it's too late.




pokefloote said:


> That doesn't confirm anything.
> 
> "Pay your ISP bill." Uh, yeah, because that's what you're supposed to do. You can't just rack up charges and stop paying it. They can't truly comment on it, so they haven't.


 
Looks like that point flew right on past your head there bro.
They can't say anything directly, therefore a comment like that strongly implies that "always-online" is a true feature.


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## The Real Jdbye (Apr 5, 2013)

This guy's points are not a good reason to make a console require an always-on internet connection.

Of course a vacuum cleaner requires electricity to work, and a mobile phone requires reception to make calls.
How else is the vacuum cleaner supposed to get power? A hand crank? And how are you expecting to magically make calls without some sort of connection to whoever you want to call?

I don't need reception on my mobile phone to play the games I have installed on it though, save a few that have stupid license verification on every start.
So why should I need an internet connection to play games I own on a console?
It's not the same thing at all, when for games the devs can simply make use of online features when there is connectivity, and restrict them when there isn't, and the users will be happier as a result.

This actually makes even LESS sense on consoles than it does on PCs, Android devices and other platforms where you have access to the file system.
Pirating on them is much harder in the first place, and since consoles are so locked down, if security is done properly it will take a very long time for any hacks to be released, and it will be cracked so wide open that patching the games to work offline will be trivial.


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## Flame (Apr 5, 2013)

yeah no. The only time I want online all the time, is when I'm watching pawrn.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 5, 2013)

The Xbox Durango, it's already dead before release.  These may be rumors right now, but everyone has been mentioned this over and over with little changes in the overall rumor itself so chances are it could be true.

Also, Orthy is an idiot with money and an IQ of 75 at the most, and he doesn't know what he's talking about, his obvious level of stupidity makes me laugh though.  The only people who damage control this are the execs and other high ranking Microsoft employees, no one but them want this feature, the internet isn't 100% fault free anywhere even in South Korea and Japan there's the same problems, internet goes out, goes down for maintenance, connections lag and slow down, and not everyone has it either and not just in the US.


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## AlanJohn (Apr 5, 2013)

What if this is all just an elaborate ruse?


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## Rizsparky (Apr 5, 2013)

Sagat said:


> Well that confirms it. The next box is off my shopping list. PS4, here I come!


In the exact same spot.


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## xist (Apr 5, 2013)

Stolen from a Eurogamer comment...


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## J-Machine (Apr 5, 2013)

just saw this gem lol

https://twitter.com/KazHiraiCEO   first one


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## Ethevion (Apr 5, 2013)

Rizsparky said:


> In the exact same spot.


Shiz I didn't know they were doing that as well. In that case, I'm sticking to PC gaming (And I don't mean Sim City)


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## Chary (Apr 5, 2013)

Sooo...In short, you can't live anywhere but major cities? Great thinking.


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## Lastly (Apr 5, 2013)

YES! YES! Now I found a reason to always connect my console to the Starbuck downstair! "TURN-ON" for 24/7!

*Eyes glimmer with hope*


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## Rizsparky (Apr 5, 2013)

Lastly said:


> YES! YES! Now I found a reason to always connect my console to the Starbuck downstair! "TURN-ON" for 24/7!
> 
> *Eyes glimmer with hope*


You live on top of a starbucks?


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## Lastly (Apr 5, 2013)

Rizsparky said:


> You live on top of a starbucks?


Why yes! Coffee is the intellectual drink of any man! And intellectual men drink at Starbucks! The law of syllogism at its finest! 



[/s]


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## nukeboy95 (Apr 5, 2013)

Lastly said:


> YES! YES! Now I found a reason to always connect my console to the Starbuck downstair! "TURN-ON" for 24/7!
> 
> *Eyes glimmer with hope*


starbucks is too slow for online gaming


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## Lastly (Apr 5, 2013)

nukeboy95 said:


> starbucks is too slow for online gaming


No! Don't deprive me of my last hope! Please don't! Even though I live in a "big city," the intellectual hut of mankind is my last resort! I know Nextbox will somehow come through for me.


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## nukeboy95 (Apr 5, 2013)

Lastly said:


> No! Don't deprive me of my last hope! Please don't! Even though I live in a "big city," the intellectual hut of mankind is my last resort! I know Nextbox will somehow come through for me.


sorry starbuck is going under when the netbox comes


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs. 

By not having an Internet connection or having an unstable one, you're _already_ missing out on tons of content. A lot of people out there actually own consoles for the sole purpose of competitive multiplayer and with Stand-by Mode and whatnot you're practically _already_ Online non-stop - this only makes it _"official"_. Sure, if you live in a rural village, sucks but we're already adapting to 4G technology world-wide, we're laying fiber optics all around the place and broadband prices are only getting lower as more providers enter the scene - pretty sure you'll find _at least one_ even if you live in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and did I mention Streaming and other such services? Consoles these days are Media Centers, you really _want_ them connected _at all times_.


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## emigre (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs.
> 
> By not having an Internet connection or having an unstable one, you're _already_ missing out on tons of content. A lot of people out there actually own consoles for the sole purpose of competitive multiplayer and with Stand-by Mode and whatnot you're practically _already_ Online non-stop - this only makes it _"official"_. Sure, if you live in a rural village, sucks but we're already adapting to 4G technology world-wide, we're laying fiber optics all around the place and broadband prices are only getting lower as more providers enter the scene - pretty sure you'll find _at least one_ even if you live in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and did I mention Streaming and other such services? Consoles these days are Media Centers, you really _want_ them connected _at all times_.


 
HI FOXI4ORTHY!


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## duffmmann (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs.
> 
> By not having an Internet connection or having an unstable one, you're _already_ missing out on tons of content. A lot of people out there actually own consoles for the sole purpose of competitive multiplayer and with Stand-by Mode and whatnot you're practically _already_ Online non-stop - this only makes it _"official"_. Sure, if you live in a rural village, sucks but we're already adapting to 4G technology world-wide, we're laying fiber optics all around the place and broadband prices are only getting lower as more providers enter the scene - pretty sure you'll find _at least one_ even if you live in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and did I mention Streaming and other such services? Consoles these days are Media Centers, you really _want_ them connected _at all times_.


 

If I want to play a singe player video game offline I should have that right.  Fuck Microsoft if they do indeed go down this route.  Looks like Next Gen will be PS4 and Wii U for me.  And I have an internet connection, it goes out once every to every other day.   Simple solution is unplug and plug back in the router, but I don't want that shit to make my video games unplayable, seriously its the epitome of terrible decisions for a video game console.


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## Rizsparky (Apr 5, 2013)

How are they supposed to game in the event of their internet connection cutting? It's ridiculous..


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

emigre said:


> HI FOXI4ORTHY!


It's not my fault that he's right, not to mention that he was highly sarcastic in his tweet. He said it himself - this is his personal opinion. He wants all of his devices to be connected and interfacing with each other in a network and I can understad this approach because it's convenient. It should be optional, yes, but hey! That's Microsoft's call and you as a customer don't have to get on-board - there are other consoles to choose from.

His examples of not buying a vaccum because sometimes they cut electricity and not buying a cellphone because you don't always have perfect reception are valid in the context, he's right and I find the amount of _tears_ surrounding the issue _palatable_.

//...and yes, I know you were kidding, I'm merely expanding on my previous thought. 



Rizsparky said:


> How are they supposed to game in the event of their internet connection cutting? It's ridiculous..


...and what do you do in the event of electricity getting cut? It's the exact same situation - external circumstances entirely. 



duffmmann said:


> If I want to play a singe player video game offline I should have that right.


As I said, it _should_ be optional and you as a customer have a _choice_, you can buy _any console you want_ so if you're not on-board with the idea, you have a right to buy another console.


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## KingVamp (Apr 5, 2013)

Are you really defending online "all" the time, really? Not everything needs online.

Want to play local play and solo only games and didn't have internet/your internet is acting up?
Too bad!

Doesn't happen too often with me, but my internet acting up is way more likely then
my electricity going out. To think something won't work because of it when it doesn't even
need it is frustrating.


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## Hyro-Sama (Apr 5, 2013)

So...

Cloud Gaming is the future?


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## duffmmann (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It's not my fault that he's right, not to mention that he was highly sarcastic in his tweet. He said it himself - this is his personal opinion. He wants all of his devices to be connected and interfacing with each other in a network and I can understad this approach because it's convenient. It should be optional, yes, but hey! That's Microsoft's call and you as a customer don't have to get on-board - there are other consoles to choose from.
> 
> *His examples of not buying a vaccum because sometimes they cut electricity and not buying a cellphone because you don't always have perfect reception are valid in the context, he's right and I find the amount of tears surrounding the issue palatable.*
> 
> ...


 
No they aren't, and you know why?  Most phone calls are a few minutes long, vacuuming only takes a few minutes.  If either of these services go out for you, you'll get to them later (or by other means if the phone call is important), and neither of these are for fun or leisure.  Vaccuum can't work, who is going to complain?  Phone gets no reception?  I'll call ya later, or find a landline.  If internet goes out while playing a video game you've been heavily invested in, you're going to be pissed.  Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason I should be required to be online if I'm playing a single player game.  Extra content or whatever, it should be my choice if I connect to the internet for that shit.  And what about local multiplayer, again if we're playing a game on the same system competitively or cooperatively, i shouldn't be required to be online for it.  You would think Microsoft would look to Sim City and see what a terrible idea this truly is.  Ah well, the xBox's funeral if they do indeed go through with this.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Are you really defending online "all" the time, really? Not everything needs online.
> 
> Want to play local play and solo only games and didn't have internet/your internet is acting up?
> Too bad!


The Internet is slowly becoming a daily life commodity, much like electricity, gas and other media have ages ago. There will be a time, and this time will come soon, when it is embraced globally just like radio and television have been, people just need to embrace that idea first.



duffmmann said:


> No they aren't, and you know why? Most phone calls are a few minutes long, vacuuming only takes a few minutes. If either of these services go out for you, you'll get to them later (or by other means if the phone call is important), and neither of these are for fun or leisure. Vaccuum can't work, who is going to complain? Phone gets no reception? I'll call ya later, or find a landline. If internet goes out while playing a video game you've been heavily invested in, you're going to be pissed.


If your wife is in labour and you _need_ an ambulance, you'll crap more than you weigh if you have no phone. If your vaccuuming takes only a couple of minutes, I pity your life conditions. If you didn't have any electricity, you wouldn't play anyways, unless it'd be on a portable so argument is null and void.

By the way guys, I know _reading is hard_ but I'm on your side - I think it should be optional _but I can see where he's comming from with this_, he's just more open-minded about the idea that Internet is an everyday life commodity that we should take for granted at this point and he's not afraid to say it.


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## Qtis (Apr 5, 2013)

If the online services are a must, I hope they are free or at least low cost. One reason why my PS3 is pretty much always online and on the latest OFW (Netflix..), while my 360 is rarely connected. Can't be bothered to pay for Live when I play online only on a few rare occasions. Service side is still better on the 360..

Future thoughts: Less people telling me they had a great night with my mother? I'm game for online only!


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## duffmmann (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> The Internet is slowly becoming a daily life commodity, much like electricity, gas and other media have ages ago. There will be a time, and this time will come soon, when it is embraced globally just like radio and television have been, people just need to embrace that idea first.


 
Its already embraced pretty much globally, and has been for a loooong time.  But that is neither here nor there.  Internet should always be an option, why on earth would you make it required.  You go from making it a great optional (large) feature of a gaming console to a required feature.  That's not an improvement, and i don't know how you can look at it and say that it is.  I mean how would having the option of playing games offline be bad for the console?  Just answer me that question and if you have a valid enough response, maybe I'll even agree with you.  But I can't imagine what such a valid response would be.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

duffmmann said:


> *Its already embraced pretty much globally, and has been for a loooong time.* But that is neither here nor there.* Internet should always be an option, why on earth would you make it required*. You go *from making it a great optional (large) feature of a gaming console to a required feature. That's not an improvement*, and i don't know how you can look at it and say that it is.* I mean how would having the option of playing games offline be bad for the console?* Just answer me that question and if you have a valid enough response, maybe I'll even agree with you. But I can't imagine what such a valid response would be.


 

I suppose you're right, electricity isn't required for gaming either. After all, there are board games, _right?_
Live patching? Updating in the background? Score boards? Server-controlled events making each playthrough different and exciting? Sky is the limit. And stop pulling out the Sim City argument, Sim City didn't work well because it was _a broken and unfinished game_ server-side that was rushed into shelves.
I _never_ said it'd be a bad thing - what I said is that I can see where he's comming from. It's _a lot _like saying that electricity shouldn't be required for gaming - you can do that, sure, except you just don't want to.



Qtis said:


> If the online services are a must, I hope they are free or at least low cost. One reason why my PS3 is pretty much always online and on the latest OFW (Netflix..), while my 360 is rarely connected. Can't be bothered to pay for Live when I play online only on a few rare occasions. Service side is still better on the 360..
> 
> Future thoughts: Less people telling me they had a great night with my mother? I'm game for online only!


Yes, in that case XBox Live Gold should become free entirely. A console should not be an equivalent of a subscription in my opinion - it's a material good and it should stay that way.


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## Veho (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs.


Indeed. Welcome to the cyberpunk dystopia. 



Foxi4 said:


> ...and what do you do in the event of electricity getting cut?


Plug my consoles into a UPS   
Unfortunately, plugging one's console into one's porn stash doesn't count as "being online", so unlike power, the internet can't be substituted.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

Veho said:


> Unfortunately, plugging one's console into one's porn stash doesn't count as "being online", so unlike power, *the internet can't be substituted*.


Satellite Internetz, 3G/4G Modems and whatnot.


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## Eerpow (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs.
> 
> By not having an Internet connection or having an unstable one, you're _already_ missing out on tons of content. A lot of people out there actually own consoles for the sole purpose of competitive multiplayer and with Stand-by Mode and whatnot you're practically _already_ Online non-stop - this only makes it _"official"_. Sure, if you live in a rural village, sucks but we're already adapting to 4G technology world-wide, we're laying fiber optics all around the place and broadband prices are only getting lower as more providers enter the scene - pretty sure you'll find _at least one_ even if you live in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and did I mention Streaming and other such services? Consoles these days are Media Centers, you really _want_ them connected _at all times_.


Question is, what's their winnings with all this when they'll most likely only end up with a small group of butthurt consumers and some bad reputation?


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> Question is, what's their winnings with all this when they'll most likely only end up with a small group of butthurt consumers and some bad reputation?


...and what if they don't? What if the service is so exceptional that it's worth it?

Shouldn't we wait for a confirmation, not to mention a presentation before we judge it? 

_Online-All-The-Time_ is not a concept that appeard out of nowhere - it's the goal Internet connections have been progressing towards for a long, long time.


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## duffmmann (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I suppose you're right, electricity isn't required for gaming either. After all, there are board games, _right?_
> Live patching? Updating in the background? Score boards? Server-controlled events making each playthrough different and exciting? Sky is the limit. And stop pulling out the Sim City argument, Sim City didn't work well because it was _a broken and unfinished game_ server-side that was rushed into shelves.
> I _never_ said it'd be a bad thing - what I said is that I can see where he's comming from. It's _a lot _like saying that electricity shouldn't be required for gaming - you can do that, sure, except you just don't want to.
> Yes, in that case XBox Live Gold should become free entirely. A console should not be an equivalent of a subscription in my opinion - it's a material good and it should stay that way.


 
1.  We're talking video games here buddy.
2. Again, games can and should have these options.  But thats just what they should be, options.  You want to have all that shit, go ahead, but why on earth can't it be an option to play without all that stuff?  Video games have been fun for ages without all of that, just as they've been fun with all of it.  Its the fact that this shit is required thats fucked.  
3. Well I can see where he's coming from too, but I don't agree with it.  If I want to play a game offline, if I'm visiting my grandparents who never bothered to get internet and bring my console with me, I should be able to play the damn thing.  

We can disregard Sim City, I'll agree with you there, but the point still stands, this should not be a requirement, there is no reason Microsoft shouldn't continue doing what its doing with the 360, online and offline both options, to take away one of those would not be an improvement at all.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 5, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> So...
> 
> Cloud Gaming is the future?











Qtis said:


> If the online services are a must, I hope they are free or at least low cost.


don't count on it


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## Veho (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Satellite Internetz, 3G/4G Modems and whatnot.


3G/4G stops working during a power outage, and by the time the Durango comes out, all the satellites will have been shot down by North Korea


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

duffmmann said:


> 1.  We're talking video games here buddy. *//So in that case should we create a new branch of games that require the Internet? We haven't for pinball machines or other games that require electricity - we just call them "games".  But yeah, I get ya, I was just saying that you do have the option of "getting entertainment" unplugged.*
> 2. Again, games can and should have these options. But thats just what they should be, options. You want to have all that shit, go ahead, but why on earth can't it be an option to play without all that stuff? Video games have been fun for ages without all of that, just as they've been fun with all of it. Its the fact that this shit is required thats fucked. *//I too think it should be optional since we're not on that level of technological advancement to enforce "Online-Non-Stop" but at the same time I understand the concept and the benefits of being Online at all times - I think it opens a lot of doors, it's not all negatives. There's a lot of cool stuff you can do server-side y'know.*
> 3. Well I can see where he's coming from too, but I don't agree with it. If I want to play a game offline, if I'm visiting my grandparents who never bothered to get internet and bring my console with me, I should be able to play the damn thing.* //One of those days you won't have to worry about - you'll just pull out your cell and tether a connection to your console and... oh, wait, we're already there. *
> 
> We can disregard Sim City, I'll agree with you there, but the point still stands, this should not be a requirement, there is no reason Microsoft shouldn't continue doing what its doing with the 360, online and offline both options, to take away one of those would not be an improvement at all. *//If they include some fun stuff for those who are Online, I think I'd like to see where this takes us but yes, it should be optional.*


 


Veho said:


> _(...) _all the satellites will have been shot down by North Korea


Let's hope they'll also shoot down the natural ones, including the moon. 

...also, local 3G/4G stations have backup power supply around here - I'm pretty sure about that. I've always had great reception during power outages.


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## Eerpow (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...and what if they don't? What if the service is so exceptional that it's worth it?
> 
> Shouldn't we wait for a confirmation, not to mention a presentation before we judge it?
> 
> _Online-All-The-Time_ is not a concept that appeard out of nowhere - it's the goal Internet connections have been progressing towards for a long, long time.


I'm not judging it or saying it will be like this, I'm only thinking about what the reasoning (from any company for that matter) would  be behind such a mandatory online system? Of course it could be used nicely for things you already mentioned, but there would only be a handful of games that will make good use of it. Why make it a mandatory feature for every title on the platform? It's not like they win anything by doing so.


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## duffmmann (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Let's hope they'll also shoot down the natural ones, including the moon.
> 
> ...also, local 3G/4G stations have backup power supply around here - I'm pretty sure about that. I've always had great reception during power outages.


 
So you agree it should be optional (in reference to your responses within your quote of what I said).  Then I'm confused by some of your rhetoric, but I'm glad we agree here, this is a poor choice on Microsoft's part.  Should they go through with it, they will not have my money.  And I'm sure I'm not alone.


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## KingVamp (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> The Internet is slowly becoming a daily life commodity, much like electricity, gas and other media have ages ago. There will be a time, and this time will come soon, when it is embraced globally just like radio and television have been, people just need to embrace that idea first.


There is a difference between needing something to make something else work then putting something there just for sake of it. Unnecessarily.
That's like requiring all cans to need electricity to open. When some cans only need a tab to open.
(Can someone come up with a better one? )



Foxi4 said:


> By the way guys, I know _reading is hard_ but I'm on your side - I think it should be optional _but I can see where he's comming from with this_, he's just more open-minded about the idea that Internet is an everyday life commodity that we should take for granted at this point and he's not afraid to say it.


Except the part when you was arguing the reason or at least the justification for it?


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## Chary (Apr 5, 2013)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind always online gaming, except for the fact of servers. (Think about that recent discussion of monster hunter tri, they're cutting the servers, 3 years in) What am I going to do when in, say, 10 years, I want to play an old Nextbox game, but I can't, _because the servers are dead_, therefore I can't play the game. *At. All.*


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## T-hug (Apr 5, 2013)

If this is true (which it most likely is) I'll be going PS4 next gen (Vita power!).
Sony are already getting the majority vote for next gen and I can't really see what MS can offer up at their reveal to combat Sony.

I also posted this on GF yesterday and 90% of the responses were flat out denial: http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360/65875886

The always on is obviously MS' anti piracy measure after 360 was so easy to hack and still use online.

Also lol Francis:


I'd love to know how many 360's his got through!


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 5, 2013)

Thug said:


> If this is true (which it most likely is) I'll be going PS4 next gen (Vita power!).
> Sony are already getting the majority vote for next gen and I can't really see what MS can offer up at their reveal to combat Sony.
> 
> I also posted this on GF yesterday and 90% of the responses were flat out denial: http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/927749-xbox-360/65875886
> ...


Honestly, this kind of move gives hackers a reason to break the system. It's not like they have trouble breaking all the DRM on PC games, and with how popular the Microsoft brand is (and how hacked the 360 was), it'll only be a matter of time. That's not to say it'll be easy, but even the PS3 was broken after enough time.

And then the only ones inconvenienced are the actual consumers.


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## Gahars (Apr 5, 2013)

Now that I have a good excuse to use this...


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## loco365 (Apr 5, 2013)

They're basically asking their customers to go to other companies and not buy their own product if they're really stupid enough to force always-online consoles. Hell, not everyone even has internet.

Microsoft go home. Your stupid is showing.


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## Wizerzak (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs.
> 
> By not having an Internet connection or having an unstable one, you're _already_ missing out on tons of content. A lot of people out there actually own consoles for the sole purpose of competitive multiplayer and with Stand-by Mode and whatnot you're practically _already_ Online non-stop - this only makes it _"official"_. Sure, if you live in a rural village, sucks but we're already adapting to 4G technology world-wide, we're laying fiber optics all around the place and broadband prices are only getting lower as more providers enter the scene - pretty sure you'll find _at least one_ even if you live in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and did I mention Streaming and other such services? Consoles these days are Media Centers, you really _want_ them connected _at all times_.



Except I have 2 3kW generators in my garage that will more than suffice to power every device in my house. Hell, many people nowadays have solar panels that do the job and don't need to rely on external power. 'The internet' is not something I can store as a backup in my garage.
Also, my electricity rarely cuts out anyway.
My internet connection is only 8Mb/s (and is looking to stay that way until at least 2015 at the earliest) and I don't constant pinging between my console and MS' servers slowing down my torrents even more.
In relation to the point above, while my brothers are both playing on their nextboxes at the same time they will both be affecting my already 40-120 ms ping in online PC gaming, just because they are playing offline Minecraft or w/e.
There's no NEED for always online DRM. Sure extra features / scoreboards etc. are nice but why not have that optional (as many games already do)? It's not the end of the world if I can't see that my friend beat me by 2 seconds on the level I just finished.
Obviously Microsoft's biggest incentive to introduce this is to prevent piracy and appeal to 3rd party devs. But as we have seen in the past (Assassin's Creed etc.) this doesn't even work and just pisses a load of people off.
What happens in 10-20 years time when the servers are switched off or if Microsoft went under (however unlikely it may be)? All of a sudden my hundred of £s game collection become worthless.


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## Ethevion (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century, dear dinosaurs.
> 
> By not having an Internet connection or having an unstable one, you're _already_ missing out on tons of content. A lot of people out there actually own consoles for the sole purpose of competitive multiplayer and with Stand-by Mode and whatnot you're practically _already_ Online non-stop - this only makes it _"official"_. Sure, if you live in a rural village, sucks but we're already adapting to 4G technology world-wide, we're laying fiber optics all around the place and broadband prices are only getting lower as more providers enter the scene - pretty sure you'll find _at least one_ even if you live in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and did I mention Streaming and other such services? Consoles these days are Media Centers, you really _want_ them connected _at all times_.


I don't use my 360 as a media center. I use it to play Forza 4. I don't even play online and couldn't care less. My brother used to play Halo 4 online but just recently the game series has died according to him. I don't care for streaming on my 360 either. I also do not want my console connected at all times.


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## Aman27deep (Apr 5, 2013)

Won't buy one if this news is true. 

Go ps4! xD


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## Walker D (Apr 5, 2013)

ha ...that gif from Neogaf sums it well


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## the_randomizer (Apr 5, 2013)

narutofan777 said:


> LOL. I didn't know microsoft would become so @#@#@#@.


 
You just found that out? I knew they were douchebags from the start.

Xbox Durango? Sounds like one helluva system to buy.


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## Wombo Combo (Apr 5, 2013)

Any game or console that requires always on drm will not get a dime from me. What an asshole move.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 5, 2013)

emigre said:


> That's a class response from Orthy at the end there.
> 
> EDIT: I swear half the threads here are stolen from Neogaf.


 
Let's be honest, Neogaf is a better source than most of the sites that get posted here. I'd take Neogaf in a source battle any day.

Honestly, I hope Microsoft does an online only console. I really do. That way they can suffer. And before you say "HUR DUR FANBOY", I mean they can suffer and learn from their mistakes, then come back and be good again. Before I would say the 360 was the go to console, but as of late, no.

Paying for Xbox Live is a joke. It really is. There's absolutely no benefits to it at all. Especially when having to pay that, to use a service (netflix) that you already pay for, that's just dumb and not right.

Their exclusives aren't that great anymore. You can only count on Halo and Gears of War and Forza for so much. And their Kinect titles is a joke. With third party support and exclusives, the PS3 just blows it out of the water.

Paying for XBL is dumb in it's own right. You get nothing in return. People say "you get better community, better servers, better security" and all that, but let's be honest, Xbox Live has been hacked and is all the time. That's why you see games like Halo and CoD and FIFA suffering from hackers and glitchers, and all the security info that gets leaked.

I'm not saying PS3 doesn't get hacked, but people aren't saying the PS3 is fool proof, people say XBL has very little hacking. And that's simply not true.


And with this online only thing? I hope it's true, so they suffer so they can become the great company they once were. They need to be brought down a notch so they can start treating their consumers with dignity and respect, and you know, start rewarding them for something they're paying for. I mean shit, here in B.C Canada alone, there are many, MANY, MAAANY spots where the internet is either too port, crapping out all the time, or none at all.


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## wrettcaughn (Apr 5, 2013)

Still not seeing anything in those tweets that would suggest a perpetual internet connection is a requirement...


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 5, 2013)

Jesus Christ, lol.

Shit's ending up on NBCNews as well as a bunch of non-gaming sites now.


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## Ericthegreat (Apr 5, 2013)

emigre said:


> That's a class response from Orthy at the end there.
> 
> EDIT: I swear half the threads here are stolen from Neogaf.


Neogaf is an interesting place just quite erratic.


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## Rydian (Apr 5, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Still not seeing anything in those tweets that would suggest a perpetual internet connection is a requirement...


And this tweet isn't saying that horses are coming to minecraft.
https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/319937646673674241
Because I mean it's not flat-out saying it in a simple sentence, right?


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## Veho (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...also, local 3G/4G stations have backup power supply around here - I'm pretty sure about that. I've always had great reception during power outages.


They have a power supply independent of your particular city block (or private villa, not sure where you live; your particular node, anyway), but it still relies on the grid.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 5, 2013)

Veho said:


> They have a power supply independent of your particular city block (or private villa, not sure where you live; your particular node, anyway), but it still relies on the grid.


That's entirely possible, I'm pretty sure they are all connected to a variety of grids to maintain proper network operation - we have a lot of relay stations around here, signal's pretty sweet.


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## Veho (Apr 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> That's entirely possible, I'm pretty sure they are all connected to a variety of grids to maintain proper network operation - we have a lot of relay stations around here, signal's pretty sweet.


And of course that applies to the rest of the world as well.


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## Chary (Apr 5, 2013)

Channel 2 news just had a report on this. They said, "Microsoft's new foray into video game consoles, the Dingo...." (I think they meant Durango)
The female news anchor then proceeded to say that she just bought a new Xbox 3 (I think she meant 360) for her son, and that they need to stop making consoles so much


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## 3bbb7 (Apr 5, 2013)

This guy is an idiot. If I were ever considering buying the upcoming xbox, just the comments made from this guy would make me change my mind.
Why would he say stuff like this as the creative director of Microsoft?

Not everyone has internet, and if they want an xbox now they can't have one unless they pay more for internet connection. It doesn't matter if it's 2013; not everyone has to have internet and that's basically what this guy is saying.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 6, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Not everyone has internet, and if they want an xbox now they can't have one unless they pay more for internet connection. It doesn't matter if it's 2013; not everyone has to have internet and that's basically what this guy is saying.



Not to distract from the larger matters which do have merit but

1) The would be xbox is an entertainment device.
2) "[Not everybody] has to have internet" - we did see rulings that internet is something resembling a human right the other year. Many governments, especially those in developed countries, have expressed desires to have very high percentages of people online. As it stands a lot that the average person participating in a country can be done online or may even be considerably easier to do online. Short version of that is the internet is becoming and being pushed towards being another basic utility like electricity or perhaps like a phone.


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## Katsumi San (Apr 6, 2013)

Chary said:


> Channel 2 news just had a report on this. They said, "Microsoft's new foray into video game consoles, the Dingo...." (I think they meant Durango)
> The female news anchor then proceeded to say that she just bought a new Xbox 3 (I think she meant 360) for her son, and that they need to stop making consoles so much


You have a link?


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## injected11 (Apr 6, 2013)

I haven't been following console news. If they go with the "always-on" approach, are they still going to charge for Xbox Live service on the new console? Is this basically a subscription-based console?


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## Kurt91 (Apr 6, 2013)

Here's the problem. I live in a small town in Washington. Around here, the best internet connection you can hope for without getting wireless is very slow. We don't have the option for fiber-optics or anything nice like that. It would take us several hours to load a single YouTube video. Even after getting wireless internet, the local area doesn't have quite enough transmission towers or whatever they use to send the signal out for us to pick up with our receiver. It's a lot faster than what we had before, but not anything that I would call "High-Speed". The thing is, as bad as the connection is, it's still the best option we have for this area.

Now, even though this isn't the best situation, I still don't have a doubt that my internet connection is fast enough to run an always-online console. The problem is, issues can still come up. Just a little while ago, we started having connection issues and had to call our provider to figure out why we were unable to get online. The guy who picked up the phone told us that there was something wrong with the tower and that they were having problems fixing it. They'd have it fixed at some point, but they didn't know how long it would take. We waited two whole weeks with no internet connection at all, and finally got upset enough to call again to see what in the world was taking so long fixing the tower. We got a different person picking up this time, who explained that there had never been an issue with the tower in the first place, and walked us through the process to figure out the issue through our end. It turned out that somehow, our receiver had lost the connection with the tower and needed to re-do the settings and connection, and the guy on the phone showed us step-by-step on how to do it.

Needless to say, we have an internet connection working again. (Obviously, since I'm able to write this) However, it does prove a point. It doesn't matter how awesome your connection is, something can still go wrong. When you have a power outage, there's not really anything you can do about it and you just wait until the power's back on. If my internet connection is down, I can still play the games I paid for on my current systems without a problem. They don't have to be online to play them, and I play mostly single-player games anyways, so I don't have to go online in any matter to play them. If I had wanted to play a single-player game, let's say the newest Final Fantasy or something, on the new X-Box, I would be unable to do so for multiple weeks until the internet connection was fixed, and if we hadn't noticed the funny colored lights on our receiver on the roof and decided to call our provider to find out what they meant, we still wouldn't have our connection and I still would be unable to play the game that I paid over fifty dollars for, not including the multiple hundreds of dollars I'd be paying for the console. I would just have an incredibly expensive paperweight.

I don't have a doubt that there are people out there who have a strong and reliable connection at all times and are not inconvenienced in any way with an "always-on" console. However, there are enough people with situations like mine that it needs to be an option instead of a requirement. At the very least, let me play the single-player games I have for the thing. I mean, if you think about it, these games are going to be multiple gigabytes big, right? If my internet connection is bad enough that a constant high-speed internet connection is a major problem for me, how on earth am I to be expected to download a 500 GB or whatever sized game to pirate it in the first place?


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## Bluetank (Apr 6, 2013)

This really makes me wonder how they'll manage advertising this on the product itself. I have a feeling an always online requirement is something you can't throw under fine print, rather it needs to be clearly stated on the box itself. Microsoft is definitively going to try marketing the hell out of always online to make it seem not bad but having a warning label on the box is bound to scare off some customers (and a bad launch if it happens).


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## Rydian (Apr 6, 2013)

Bluetank said:


> I have a feeling an always online requirement is something you can't throw under fine print, rather it needs to be clearly stated on the box itself.


All the games that have done it simply state it in the requirements at the bottom+back.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 6, 2013)

even microsoft thinks this guy is an asshole


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## Hells Malice (Apr 6, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Not everyone has internet, and if they want an xbox now they can't have one unless they pay more for internet connection. It doesn't matter if it's 2013; not everyone has to have internet and that's basically what this guy is saying.


 
If someone doesn't have internet, I doubt they'd have enough money to consider getting an expensive new console anyway. Or even a cheap old not that expensive console.

Pretty much everyone DOES have internet, the problem is that the internet isn't always reliable. I mean, my girlfriends internet likes to blip in and out at times, that would completely suck if you were in the middle of an offline singleplayer game and it was all "lolwhoops no internet gtfo" and you lost hours of progress cuz it killed the game. Always-online is a completely retarded feature on basically every level.


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## Ethevion (Apr 6, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> If someone doesn't have internet, I doubt they'd have enough money to consider getting an expensive new console anyway. Or even a cheap old not that expensive console.
> 
> Pretty much everyone DOES have internet, the problem is that the internet isn't always reliable. I mean, my girlfriends internet likes to blip in and out at times, that would completely suck if you were in the middle of an offline singleplayer game and it was all "lolwhoops no internet gtfo" and you lost hours of progress cuz it killed the game. Always-online is a completely retarded feature on basically every level.


On top of it not always being reliable, there's a monthly usage for internet as well. My limit per month is 80GB with 24 Mb/s download speed. I almost always reach my limit per month and having always online for single player games wont help at all.


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## Rydian (Apr 6, 2013)

ITT: City dwellers.


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## DSGamer64 (Apr 6, 2013)

injected11 said:


> I haven't been following console news. If they go with the "always-on" approach, are they still going to charge for Xbox Live service on the new console? Is this basically a subscription-based console?


 
Well, that is one of the biggest issues. Microsoft would find themselves in a lot of hot water if they tried to do both.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 6, 2013)

Rydian said:


> ITT: City dwellers.


 
Ugh I'm out in the boonies, and while we get decent internet, it's prone to going down all the time because some fucking jack off natives always steal the copper wiring and everything. It's annoying.


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## Rydian (Apr 6, 2013)

Yeah I'm in a really populated area right now, and stuff is still prone to going out every so often.  Not as much as when I was in the mountains, but it still happens.


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## PsyBlade (Apr 7, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> Well, that is one of the biggest issues. Microsoft would find themselves in a lot of hot water if they tried to do both.


You can go online without paying the subscription, you just can't do very much with it (eg no online Multiplayer, no video streaming, ...).
Xbox Indie games for example do already require you to be online to play.
Without subscription you can play them, but limited to online Singleplayer.
I guess the new Xbox will do the same for every game.

Why would the stop such an good money maker.
They tried the subscription scheme for both Xbox and GfWL.
Xbox users loved it, PC users didn't, thus GfWL online Multiplayer went free again.


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## Costello (Apr 7, 2013)

I live in China and the internet connection is excellent but only on servers located in China. As soon as you try to visit a website outside of China, it gets shitty slow.

I don't think it would be a major problem if the always-on thing was just a DRM, but if games actually had to download resources from remote servers (something like cloud gaming) it just wouldn't work at all.

So I'll wait and see, but the principle of always-online is already making me want a PS4 more. And I won't own both (at least not in the initial years).


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## Rydian (Apr 7, 2013)

Costello said:


> I don't think it would be a major problem if the always-on thing was just a DRM, but if games actually had to download resources from remote servers (something like cloud gaming) it just wouldn't work at all.


Games already started doing that to make cracking them a longer and more involved process.  The Assassin's Creed II or whatever DRM did this, Sim City does it, etc.  The cracks for these games (before the AC DRM removal update) actually involved server software running locally to feed the data to the game.


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## granville (Apr 7, 2013)

Equating always online with having to have electricity to power a vacuum is fucking stupid. I cannot believe I even have to explain why. Something like a TV, appliance, car, etc has to have a source of energy to run. As in it's required, because the laws of physics mandate that the device must receive a source of power in order to function. Same goes for organisms needing nutrition and other elements to survive (also fuel).

Always online on the other hand is completely unnecessary in single player games at the very least. Online multiplayer sure, the laws of physics are obviously in effect there. But online is not a physics-mandated requirement for experiencing a purely single player experience (or even local multiplayer). In those situations, it's something that was specifically programmed in. Except that it serves no useful function except for companies to enforce even more DRM-like restrictions on gamers (and perhaps as a more subconscious tool to further the notion that you don't truly own the games you paid for).

And in many if not most cases, DRM and other similar online checking mechanics have been hacked and removed. You can't hack into a vacuum cleaner and force it to run without electricity.

I'm going to assume at this point that the guy who tweeted this crap is just a really bad troll. Though it's rumored that MS is doing this still anyways. If so, even their response telling people not to listen to him is empty.


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## SuzieJoeBob (Apr 7, 2013)

narutofan777 said:


> LOL. I didn't know microsoft would become so @#@#@#@.


I usually expect _Sony_ to be the jackasses, but Microsoft has seen the light apparently....


----------



## Taleweaver (Apr 7, 2013)

I've just read the entire thread, but I'm still not getting this.

To be fair, foxi4 gives some good food for thought. No matter how you look at it, internet _is_ an added value for gaming. Yes, the anti-piracy thing is an important factor, but it's far from the only one. Blizzard patches their games for balance for years now. The first days of starcraft 2 and diablo 3 were a huge clusterfuck, but who's remembering that now? No...on the contrary: their games are praised for a large part because the developers don't just call it quits the day the thing gets put on shelves.

Why should consoles be an exception on this? Christ...even bioshock 1 had to make an online check before it allowed you to play the game. And boy, did that game FAIL!!!! /sarcasm


That said...


The thing I really don't get is why microsoft is forcing this. Assuming they ARE forcing this, because one guy trolling another one on twitter isn't exactly the most reliable source. And if anything, this one is equally reliable, and counters that statement.

Result: my bet is microsoft will just allow the game makers themselves to do online checks. That way, certain makers (I'm looking at you, EA) can decide for themselves whether they want to force their gamers to be online.
This obviously is a double edged sword. On one hand, it allows for entirely new gameplay. The next generation won't be distinguished by graphics...so why not bring MMORPG's to consoles? Or entirely new styles of MMO's where all that "interaction with other players" isn't some fancy buzz-word in a presentation, but something you actually DO?

On the other hand...yes. It WILL limit your audience (as mentioned: not everyone has reliable internet). And it's only the question whether you can keep the game profitable, as the cost of making the game and the disks gets another cost of running the servers for your gamers to play on (which will most likely mean subscriptions).


...and yeah, there's the EA approach of cutting off your own foot with that double edged sword by not correctly calculating the amount of power you'll need, thus providing a shitty experience to all. Nobody likes this. But that isn't to say it doesn't have potention. It's a growing pain. If everyone is REALLY as persistent in boycotting them as they say they are, it will vanish. If not...then it keeps around. EA isn't forcing everyone online because they're evil. It's because they see potential. It's the sales figures that'll prove them right or wrong.

Same goes for the durango, I guess. I propose we hold back bitching about it until it hits the stores.


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## wrettcaughn (Apr 7, 2013)

Should these unfounded rumors prove true...non-issue for me for two reasons.
1) I have a kick-ass, consistent internet connection.
2) I'm not an early adopter of _anything _and will have plenty of time to see the hardware in action before deciding "I'm not going to buy that based on rumors circulating prior to it even being announced."

It is funny though seeing everyone freak out over heresay and hypotheticals...
"Aliens: Colonial Marines is a steaming pile of garb...SQUIRREL!"
"The WiiU is losing third party supp...SQUIRREL!"
"Microsoft is forcing gamers to connect to the intern...SQUIRREL!"


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## Hop2089 (Apr 7, 2013)

wrettcaughn said:


> Should these unfounded rumors prove true...non-issue for me for two reasons.
> 1) I have a kick-ass, consistent internet connection.
> 2) I'm not an early adopter of _anything _and will have plenty of time to see the hardware in action before deciding "I'm not going to buy that based on rumors circulating prior to it even being announced."
> 
> ...


 
You're forgetting one problem, down the line you may not be able to play your games 5-10 years later, trust me you'll want to play the old games once in a while and guess what if always online is true, they will be no good 5-10 years later or longer.  I would not want a collection of games that would be worthless and unplayable 5+ years down the line.

There are also other reason this should be an issue, preservation and emulation down the line, you won't be able to properly preserve a game to play later on or just for history's sake if it has always online DRM or even play the system and emulation could be affected, future generations should be able to play these games if they so desire.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 7, 2013)

If it's always online too I bet you anything it won't be free so you'll be forced to pay for xbl or whatever it will be. No thanks - I already pay for one internet!


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 8, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> If it's always online too I bet you anything it won't be free so you'll be forced to pay for xbl or whatever it will be. No thanks - I already pay for one internet!


 
Of course it won't be free. Microsoft made you pay for the original Xbox for years, and the 360 for years. I'm pretty sure they've made more than enough money to cover server costs for a long time.

Hell today I was playing Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate online, and every room I went in, a lot of talk was about this guy's comments. Everybody is sure that it'll be online only because Microsoft is causing themselves a lot of trouble with this, and they're not denying or saying anything. It's not like saying "we wont be online only" will hurt them at all. It'll restore a lot of faith.


----------



## Elrinth (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't think anyone forgets the first days of Diablo 3 
Nowadays most people are focusing on the fact that the game sucked compared to Diablo 2.
Now recently we saw Sim City concerns, tho they seem to have come to a good server quota now.

But IF the Xbox720 is going to require always on in order to actually play a game, I think a lot of people will be quite sad they can't play games when their internet is down.


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## Gahars (Apr 8, 2013)

Penny Arcade is always on... to something.


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## Rizsparky (Apr 8, 2013)

Elrinth said:


> But IF the Xbox720 is going to require always on in order to actually play a game, I think a lot of people will be quite sad they can't play games when their internet is down.


This, I would hate not being able to play, I usually catch up with single player campaigns when my internet is down. If I can't do that, that's really crap...


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## Jamstruth (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey guys. XBL Silver is free so stop worrying about them making you pay for Gold. You'll have to be online for the box to "phone home" but you wont be able to play online against anybody. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!


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## Veho (Apr 8, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Penny Arcade is always on... to something.
> 
> *snip*


"If your Xbox is on for more than 4 hours, consult a technician."


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## BORTZ (Apr 8, 2013)

Always on? Sounds like me and your mom.


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## 3bbb7 (Apr 11, 2013)

Haha good, he got fired
http://kotaku.com/microsofts-adam-orth-the-always-on-tweeter-no-long-472244698


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 11, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Haha good, he got fired
> http://kotaku.com/microsofts-adam-orth-the-always-on-tweeter-no-long-472244698


That's a little harsh for a couple off-hand comments on Twitter.


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## TheCasketMan (Apr 11, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Haha good, he got fired
> http://kotaku.com/microsofts-adam-orth-the-always-on-tweeter-no-long-472244698


----------



## lokomelo (Apr 11, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Haha good, he got fired
> http://kotaku.com/microsofts-adam-orth-the-always-on-tweeter-no-long-472244698


So now he is not "on" anymore, and he will have some trouble to pay for an aways on data plan without a job. By the way, 2,4 billion uses internet and we live in a 7 billion world.


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## Bobbyloujo (Apr 11, 2013)

I won't get it if it really is always online. I don't see a point to that other than obsessive DRM.


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## AngryGeek416 (Apr 11, 2013)

PS4.


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## Gahars (Apr 11, 2013)

CanuckBuck said:


> PS4.


 
Huh. You know, I've never really thought of it like that, but you make a very compelling argument.

I'll have to mull that over a bit.


----------



## Chary (Apr 11, 2013)

If there's always online DRM, then Microsoft is going to have to have some pretty super-ultra-mega-epic amazing exclusives to make me want the "durango"


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## AngryGeek416 (Apr 11, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Huh. You know, I've never really thought of it like that, but you make a very compelling argument.
> 
> I'll have to mull that over a bit.


That's the point. There is nothing to think about.


----------



## wrettcaughn (Apr 11, 2013)

I'll just drop this here...




Rizsparky said:


> http://www.vgleaks.com/microsoft-xbox-roadmap-2013/
> 
> A new rumour explaining how local play can be played offliine, interesting..


----------



## Snailface (Apr 11, 2013)

soulx said:


> That's a little harsh for a couple off-hand comments on Twitter.


The comments went viral and did an enormous amount of damage to the Xbox brand. Bad publicity is an expensive thing to fix.

He unknowingly did a service to gamers though -- possibly forcing MS to reconsider always-online or tone it down somewhat.


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## Wombo Combo (Apr 11, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> Haha good, he got fired
> http://kotaku.com/microsofts-adam-orth-the-always-on-tweeter-no-long-472244698


Actually it says he quit



> A source close to Orth tells Kotaku that Orth resigned from the company and was not fired.


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## 3bbb7 (Apr 11, 2013)

Wombo Combo said:


> Actually it says he quit


Ah I read it over too fast, or they edited it? I'm not sure how I missed that part haha


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## Ergo (Apr 11, 2013)

I have a simple question: why is anyone on this thread defending something that, allegedly, makes it more difficult to do the thing the machine was designed to do? How is that, in any way, defensible or desirable, from the _consumer's pov_? I can see where it might be wonderful for MS and, perhaps, third parties, but certainly, from a gamer's perspective, making these things _mandatory_ is, in no way, a positive, right?


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## Snailface (Apr 11, 2013)

Wombo Combo said:


> Actually it says he quit


Forced resignation _is_ being fired. Its simply an arrangement where both sides come out looking better -- MS doesn't look cruel, Orthy doesn't look like an incompetent.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 11, 2013)

bwahahaha they fired him for LEAKING info that pretty much confirms the rumor now


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 11, 2013)

Snailface said:


> The comments went viral and did an enormous amount of damage to the Xbox brand. Bad publicity is an expensive thing to fix.
> 
> He unknowingly did a service to gamers though -- possibly forcing MS to reconsider always-online or tone it down somewhat.


_Enormous_ amount of damage to the Xbox brand? The amount of people who have even heard about this whole situation probably represent a very small minority of the Xbox userbase.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 11, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> bwahahaha they fired him for LEAKING info that pretty much confirms the rumor now


 
It wasn't really "info" at all so this confirms nothing.


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## wrettcaughn (Apr 11, 2013)

I bet if we ignore the link wrettcaughn quoted above we can continue talking out of our asses and making assumptions.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It wasn't really "info" at all so this confirms nothing.


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## Gahars (Apr 11, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> *snip*


 
Suuuuuuure...


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 11, 2013)

When your statement gets doubted, just say it's a joke and you're a "master trole" and everything magically disappears in a cloud of obscurity.

SMOKE BOMB.


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## porkiewpyne (Apr 11, 2013)

And he's fired he handed in his resignation.

Source: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...00_-microsoft-designer-adam-orth-resigns.aspx


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## p1ngpong (Apr 11, 2013)

Calm down ladies!


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## FAST6191 (Apr 11, 2013)

Ergo said:


> I have a simple question: why is anyone on this thread defending something that, allegedly, makes it more difficult to do the thing the machine was designed to do? How is that, in any way, defensible or desirable, from the _consumer's pov_? I can see where it might be wonderful for MS and, perhaps, third parties, but certainly, from a gamer's perspective, making these things _mandatory_ is, in no way, a positive, right?



Obviously it depends upon the implementation but assuming they go for the full on "sim city" style nonsense (and not the WGA stuff which is also an online DRM) then it also means every game can afford to be demon's/dark souls (or perhaps a good version of MindJack or left 4 dead could get a whole new lease of life or that recent "Defiance" game's model could be tweaked), soft/silent updates could become the norm extending to AI updates of a sort (think some of the fighting games when they take tournament data and more generally the idea of heuristics), you might have something resembling a soft MMO (your game is your game but every other fool changes monster distributions or something), returning to the updates thing we have already seen mobile phone games sell a base game and do free updates all the time which is an interesting model (though many of the annual FPS titles are doing something similar).

For my money none of those is an overwhelming positive but I note myself as a one that truly dislikes online games so I might not have the best perspective. Still the ability to afford a whole load of new gameplay styles, some of which have already been proven in limited amounts or with a lot of effort on the part of the developer, is surely a positive.


As for the PR damage vs small fraction of the userbase I am inclined to utter a phrase along the lines of "and they will tell their friends".


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## The Real Jdbye (Apr 12, 2013)

This actually makes even LESS sense on consoles than it does on PCs, Android devices and other platforms where you have access to the file system.
Pirating on them is much harder in the first place, and since consoles are so locked down, if security is done properly it will take a very long time for any hacks to be released, and it will be cracked so wide open that patching the games to work offline will be trivial.


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