# Three Wuhan lab researchers were hospitalized in November 2019



## Valwinz (May 24, 2021)

Remember when certain people here say it was a conspiracy lol

Three Wuhan lab researchers were hospitalized in November 2019: report https://t.co/20pTI9y2BW pic.twitter.com/94qnecjGhU— New York Post (@nypost) May 23, 2021


Wuhan lab staff had Covid-like symptoms before outbreak disclosed, says report https://t.co/udgpjmVEVT pic.twitter.com/Jz2O9MO6J9— FRANCE 24 (@FRANCE24) May 24, 2021


Multiple Researchers At Chinese Lab In Wuhan Were Hospitalized With COVID-19-Like Symptoms In November 2019: U.S. Intelligence Report https://t.co/GdD8bsQmJH pic.twitter.com/U6U5Xwu5Nu— Daily Wire (@realDailyWire) May 24, 2021


US intelligence found researchers at Wuhan lab were hospitalised shortly before coronavirus outbreak, report claims https://t.co/2TEQvo6MPb— The Independent (@Independent) May 23, 2021


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## Louse (May 24, 2021)

A broken clock's right twice a day, I suppose.


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## Seliph (May 24, 2021)

Idk because none of the articles outright say that the researchers actually had covid.

From the nypost article:
"The Wall Street Journal, which cited current and former US officials, reported that the intelligence gathered by “an international partner” expands on a State Department document confirming that workers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology fell ill with symptoms “consistent with both Covid-19 and common seasonal illness” in fall 2019."

Like who is this "international partner? What is this intelligence? Can we see it for ourselves?

"The officials were split on the strength of the intelligence, with one telling the Journal it needed more corroboration and another saying it was “of exquisite quality” and “very precise.” Both agreed that the intelligence stopped short of confirming the researchers had contracted coronavirus."

Right here the article outright basically states "we don't actually even know if they had coronavirus".

I would love to know who these three people are, where they were hospitalized, how they were treated, etc but we don't know. I'd like to know who this "international partner is", how they got this information, why they're only revealing it now, and why their identity has to be secret. I'd also like to see a direct quote from this international partner. Who are these "officials" who received the intelligence? How do all of these news sites have this information? How did it get out? Why isn't this international news?

So I dunno, just seems like more media hubbub to keep the drama fires stoked about China. Sure, maybe this is a true story, I'm not just gonna deny the possibility but with all the vague details I don't see why someone couldn't just make this all up in an hour. I feel like there would be much more info if this was actually true, like the Panama papers. But... as far as we know... there just isn't lol. Trust me, I'd love for life to be as cut and dry as this, but it never is. A story like this just isn't credible and wouldn't stand up to actual journalistic standards. It seems just like a rumor that started with the Wall Street Journal that some news sites have just repeated because they know it'll get them clicks and money, which is what US news media always does because corporations value profit over good journalism.

I'd love to look more into the source but everything leads to the Wall Street Journal (since that's who these articles cite) and their articles are all locked behind a paywall (great journalism guys) so I literally can't look any further. Is there a possibility that covid 19 came from a lab? Sure. Is it possible Mario is gay? Also sure. Is it a "strong possibility?" Not really, considering what evidence we actually have.


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## CMDreamer (May 24, 2021)

News keep being manipulated in favor of a single side, precisely now that, that side is being surpassed by the achievements of their "adversaries".

For the most part, massive media news will always serve "superior reasons" in sake of their own preservation and in detriment of the truth, always seeking public approval for already planned and approved countermeasures.

All news media companies that have business with the party seeking public approval will copycat whatever they're being told. That's how public manipulation works, we almost never get to see/read/hear the other side's version, or such version gets fastly discredited by any possible means.

I don't trust massive media news anymore, at least not those that have more than 2 centuries manipulating the news given to the public. They totally forgot why they were founded.


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## Xzi (May 24, 2021)

Two out of four sources here are equivalent to tabloids, one of them is just repeating what those two reported, and France 24 who knows.  Right-leaning media throwing some tidbits to their base.  We'll have to see if anything more than that comes of it.

Basically: there's a good chance it is still a conspiracy theory.  Correlation does not equal causation.


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## KingVamp (May 24, 2021)

Even at face value, what does this mean? What does this change?


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## Jayro (May 24, 2021)

This old news is brought to you by: March 2020.



KingVamp said:


> Even at face value, what does this mean? What does this change?


The world over can sue China for all this bullshit.


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## LDAsh (May 24, 2021)

Not at all very long ago, this kind of thread wouldn't only be frowned upon and buried, but likely deleted and if you keeps it up, you'd get banned.  Depends where it is and how much Winnie Pooh might soil his diaper over it.  He tends to do that a lot.

This has always been alarm bells for me and the stink of a guilty conscience.

Hoping people can at least have conversation, you know, like we always did, and moreso stand together against this menace, because war is a very real scenario whichever way people go, anyway - RMB that grows on trees, or not.


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## Xzi (May 24, 2021)

LDAsh said:


> Not at all very long ago, this kind of thread wouldn't only be frowned upon and buried, but likely deleted and if you keeps it up, you'd get banned. Depends where it is and how much Winnie Pooh might soil his diaper over it. He tends to do that a lot.


Lol are you under the impression that GBAtemp is owned by Tencent?


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## Bladexdsl (May 24, 2021)

i've been saying this day one. china created this virus as a means of population control. that's why china is so pissed with us right know because *WE KNOW THE TRUTH!*


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## Lacius (May 25, 2021)

We don't know that the lab researchers had COVID-19.
We do know that COVID-19 might have been circulating around the Wuhan area earlier than previously thought, perhaps weeks/months earlier.
There's currently no reason to think SARS‑CoV‑2 came from a lab. All of the presently available evidence indicates it was naturally occurring.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (May 25, 2021)

They should get the antibody test


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## Benja81 (May 25, 2021)

This about sums it up:

"On Tuesday, the World Health Organization released a joint report with Beijing on the origins of the pandemic following a four-week investigation in China. It concluded, among other things, that the lab leak hypothesis was "extremely unlikely."

But WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said he does not believe the team's assessment of the lab leak possibility was extensive enough.

"Although the team has concluded that a laboratory leak is the least likely hypothesis, this requires further investigation, potentially with additional missions involving specialist experts, which I am ready to deploy," he told WHO members, according to a written statement.

Jamie Metzl, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, has been an outspoken proponent of such an investigation.

"I'm not saying that I am certain that COVID-19 stems from an accidental lab leak, but it would be absolutely irresponsible and could only be politically motivated to say that it's not even worth having a full investigation," he said."

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/9831...se-lab-takes-on-new-life-in-wake-of-who-repor


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## BlazeMasterBM (May 25, 2021)

well that's no surprise. stay strong don't get the vax


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## GhostLatte (May 25, 2021)

BlazeMasterBM said:


> well that's no surprise. stay strong don't get the vax


Any particular reason not to get the vaccine?


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## BlazeMasterBM (May 25, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Any particular reason not to get the vaccine?


I don't trust it


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## Jayro (May 25, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Any particular reason not to get the vaccine?


Nah, just Q conspiracies and paranoia. It's perfectly safe, always has been.


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## BlazeMasterBM (May 25, 2021)

Jayro said:


> Nah, just Q conspiracies and paranoia. It's perfectly safe, always has been.


I don't believe in Q lol


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## GhostLatte (May 25, 2021)

Jayro said:


> Nah, just Q conspiracies and paranoia. It's perfectly safe, always has been.


I’m fully vaccinated I was just asking him


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## Xzi (May 25, 2021)

BlazeMasterBM said:


> I don't trust it


But bro, I got the vaccine and now I can connect devices to the wi-fi my brain emits.  /s


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## Benja81 (May 25, 2021)

The only reason to be afraid of the vaccine is if you believe it was created nefariously. Well not even only that, you'd have to also believe that this villain also included some type of sci-fi switch they could flip for every person infected (for what purpose idk), and of course also believe this applies to the vaccinated too. If you don't believe in all that, based on the science of what we know about vaccines, getting the vaccine will be 1000x better than getting the real thing and being unvaccinated. Plus there's the fact nobody seems to know for sure who will end up with life threatening symptoms and who will have long term effects among the unvaccinated.


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## omgcat (May 25, 2021)

being from a lab does not mean made in a lab. it is possible this was a virus sampled from the wild that through improper handling infected the scientists and got out.


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## Jayro (May 25, 2021)

What ever happened to "It came from a guy that ate bat soup"..? (I still wanna sue that guy, if he didn't die from it.)


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## SG854 (May 25, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Any particular reason not to get the vaccine?


The fact that it hasn't been tested enough. It's not FDA approved. And it's under emergency use.

The benefits may out weigh the negatives with testing so far which is how it got through to emergency use, but the vaccine hasn't been tested long enough to know any other effects. And the Emergency use can be revoked at any time if they discover that the negatives outweigh the positives.

It's not an approved vaccine and that's the main point. And we are all Guinea Pigs. I can see why people will be warry of not taking it. And I wouldn't shame them either. And I wouldn't tell them either that they are the problem that people are dying because of them not taking the vaccine and using that to shame them.

You can flash them numbers all you want about the % of not getting covid if they take it or the % of its success rate. But like I said, at the end of the day it's not approved. They are working right now to get it approved but it's not there yet. Until it's approved then I can understand them being hesitant.


For me I'm fully vaccinated because I apparently don't care if something bad happens to me from the vaccine. If I die then oh well.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 25, 2021)

Which lab? An American perhaps?
0,5% of the American population seem to have had antibodies in Dec 2019 and 1,5% in Jan 2021 (see Red Cross blood donation analysis).


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## Deleted User (May 25, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Which lab? An American perhaps?
> 0,5% of the American population seem to have had antibodies in Dec 2019 and 1,5% in Jan 2021 (see Red Cross blood donation analysis).


A Chinese one.


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## JonhathonBaxster (May 25, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Remember when certain people here say it was a conspiracy lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1396594501293072385
> 
> ...



Not only did the Liberal media call the Conservatives origin theory a conspiracy they also stopped calling the virus the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus and started denying it originated in Wuhan, China. That's after two months calling it the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus and publishing articles claiming it originated in Wuhan. I'd almost laugh at how pathetic the Liberals have been, but this circumstance doesn't surprise me what so ever. They are complete sheep that listen to their media mogul masters. It's actually quite pathetic.

Now at least with bi-partisan support we may get to the bottom of exactly where the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) originated from. We all know it came from Wuhan China, but there's two running theories of exactly where in Wuhan the virus came from. The first is the exposure to a bat or varmint from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market where they sell live wild animals for consumption and the second theory is it was created and then escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which is a lab in Wuhan where experiments are run on virii.

If for some reason it did originate from the Lab I hope the entire world holds China accountable. I know the CCP has their claws in the Liberal media with this entire situation being a clear example. Maybe it's time for that to change.

As for me being vaccinated I'm actually trans-vax. I didn't get the COVID-19 vaccination, but I identify that I did. Please respect my pronouns!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



CMDreamer said:


> News keep being manipulated in favor of a single side, precisely now that, that side is being surpassed by the achievements of their "adversaries".
> 
> For the most part, massive media news will always serve "superior reasons" in sake of their own preservation and in detriment of the truth, always seeking public approval for already planned and approved countermeasures.
> 
> ...



This is very insightful. One of the most positive things that came out of Trump's Presidency was the public becoming aware of how fake the main stream media news really is. I'll be honest, but before Trump I took stories in the newspaper and online at face value and gave the authors the benefit of doubt when it came to truthfulness. Not anymore.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> The fact that it hasn't been tested enough. It's not FDA approved. And it's under emergency use.
> 
> The benefits may out weigh the negatives with testing so far which is how it got through to emergency use, but the vaccine hasn't been tested long enough to know any other effects. And the Emergency use can be revoked at any time if they discover that the negatives outweigh the positives.
> 
> ...



I got the COVID-19 vaccine because I always get vaccines. I also get my yearly flu vaccine and get any recommended vaccines from my doctor. The fact that the COVID-19 vaccine is relatively new and its long time effects unknown sort of threw me off, but after seeing how only 1-2% of people had bad side effects I decided I'd get it. It's sort of like how 99.8% of people who get COVID-19 survive. Both the virus and the vaccine are no big deal really. It sort of reminds me of the yearly flu.


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## Darth Meteos (May 25, 2021)

Jesus, what a dumpster fire.


Spoiler: This whole-ass forum


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## Deleted User (May 25, 2021)

... By this logic, every Colonised Country in the World would have legal standing to sue Europe for all the STDs and plagues they introduced to the Population.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works and cherry-picking doesn't add to the objectivity of the notion.

What I see are a lot of unproven accusations on China.
This would've fit well with the 2020 narrative, but this is 2021 when one of the World's most pervasive variant is the UK Variant.

Crickets on accountability.
The Automatic Response is that it's one's fault for getting it; how is that any different for the original strain.

If the West see themselves as the beacon of Science, how can they blame the lowly Asian country for attaining a disease but not their own failings in proving their superiority and letting this run rampant in their population.

It took months for the West to even acknowledge the preventive measures of Face Masks, and Europe was quick to turn down aid from South Korea. Because they're so much better at this.

Refer back to Automatic Response.


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## JonhathonBaxster (May 25, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> What I see are a lot of unproven accusations on China.
> This would've fit well with the 2020 narrative, but this is 2021 when one of the World's most pervasive variant is the UK Variant.



Failure! The mutation that caused the new "UK" variant of COVID-19 happened months after the original virus that originated in Wuhan, China spread across the world. Try again.


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## Deleted User (May 25, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Failure! The UK mutation that caused the new variant of COVID-19 happened months after the original virus that originated in Wuhan, China spread across the world. Try again.



... I'm not sure if this is from your lack of understanding, but I'll provide a reply.

The main points:

Does China have control over other Countries' Health and Safety Measures;
COVID-19 came from China;
COVID-19 is no longer the Main Variant;
West wants to hold China accountable for their own Countries' Health and Safety Measures;

COVID-19 UK Variant came from the UK;
COVID-19 is one of the Main Variants; and

West wants zero from the UK.
I hope that's clear enough for you.


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## JonhathonBaxster (May 25, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> ... I'm not sure if this is from your lack of understanding, but I'll provide a reply.
> 
> The main points:
> 
> ...



LOL. Failed again. It's not the UK's fault that the virus that came from China and infected the entire world mutated. That would be China's fault. Try again.


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## Deleted User (May 25, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> LOL. Failed again.



I admire your genuine lack of grasp on logic.
Go ahead and take my Like.


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## JonhathonBaxster (May 25, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> I admire your genuine lack of grasp on logic.
> Go ahead and take my Like.



Why per tell would the west want anything from the UK? It's not the UK's fault that the Chinese virus mutated!


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## Deleted User (May 25, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Why per tell would the west want anything from the UK? It's not the UK's fault that the Chinese virus mutated!


And it's also not UK's fault that Covid originated from China, like wtf.


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## chrisgfystoops (May 25, 2021)

Xzi said:


> But bro, I got the vaccine and now I can connect devices to the wi-fi my brain emits.  /s


 heh, funny


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## depaul (May 25, 2021)

It's indeed possible the virus was man-made and leaked from Wuhan lab. But, what is more mysterious, how did China get rid of Covid?

It's been a year now and China is still at 90K total cases ! And no I don't think they are lying there are a lot of events where their citizens go unmasked and without protection or whatever.

There is some secret, maybe they've got the cure as well


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## JonhathonBaxster (May 25, 2021)

depaul said:


> It's indeed possible the virus was man-made and leaked from Wuhan lab. But, what is more mysterious, how did China get rid of Covid?
> 
> It's been a year now and China is still at 90K total cases ! And no I don't think they are lying there are a lot of events where their citizens go unmasked and without protection or whatever.
> 
> There is some secret, maybe they've got the cure as well



China has had a vaccine and their shut down measures are extreme. Extreme being they have troops on the ground patrolling cities with curfews and shutdowns that will arrest anyone for breaking them. Since China is a communist nation their citizens don't have that many rights. I also wouldn't put much faith in the country that hid the virus from the entire world when it comes to how many they are reporting are infected or not.


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## WorldOfNerds (May 25, 2021)

Someone probably already mentioned this, but as much as this conspiracy goes, I just don't think that china made the virus. sure, they hid the true number of infections to make it seem like it was under control, but India has been suspected of making the same move, and faking infection numbers doesn't exactly mean that they engineered CoV-19.

Also, this Coronavirus isn't the first, its a mutation of SARS, likely transmitted from bats being sold in china's wet market.

To sum up my opinion, I'm not saying that china doesn't modify and produce virulents, but I doubt that is the case this time.


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## Valwinz (May 25, 2021)

depaul said:


> It's indeed possible the virus was man-made and leaked from Wuhan lab. But, what is more mysterious, how did China get rid of Covid?
> 
> It's been a year now and China is still at 90K total cases ! And no I don't think they are lying there are a lot of events where their citizens go unmasked and without protection or whatever.
> 
> There is some secret, maybe they've got the cure as well



the same way the gid rid of the people they got at the uighur camps


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## depaul (May 25, 2021)

Just to mention by no way I am (or we are) racist, there are certainly Chinese gbatemp members here and I really like and respect China. I am just amazed how they managed to stop the virus!

Just look how they celebrate and live normally


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## WorldOfNerds (May 26, 2021)

depaul said:


> Just to mention by no way I am (or we are) racist, there are certainly Chinese gbatemp members here and I really like and respect China. I am just amazed how they managed to stop the virus!
> 
> Just look how they celebrate and live normally




I don't think they stopped it. In my previous comment I mentioned that china faked the infection numbers, which is likely still the case (or they just don't put mask or distancing regulations in) because china is a country driven by cheap labor, production, distribution and the economy as a whole, rather than giving one about the health of its people.


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## Seliph (May 26, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Any particular reason not to get the vaccine?


Makes ya gay

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Darth Meteos said:


> Jesus, what a dumpster fire.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: This whole-ass forum


I feel like literally no one read my post


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## Costello (May 26, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Jesus, what a dumpster fire.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: This whole-ass forum


to be fair... this is one of the rare places where you'll get to hear both sides (or every side, if you think of it as a spectrum)
we welcome everyone regardless of their political affiliation, we just ask people to remain civil, but that doesn't mean we can force them to reason with logic

There are other places like imgur, Parler (or whatever it's called now) that are downright echo chambers - on these, you only get what you want to read and are never confronted to other opinions. These aren't places where you'll grow to be a more open-minded person.


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## Sicklyboy (May 26, 2021)

This just in - before being declared a pandemic, people that work at places experience symptoms of the virus eventually designated COVID-19. More at 11.

Really? The virus came to existence somehow, right? Is there any indication that these people that work in the lab are the worldwide patient zero? Or just some more braindead trying to make something out of nothing?


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## Benja81 (May 26, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> This just in - before being declared a pandemic, people that work at places experience symptoms of the virus eventually designated COVID-19. More at 11.
> 
> Really? The virus came to existence somehow, right? Is there any indication that these people that work in the lab are the worldwide patient zero? Or just some more braindead trying to make something out of nothing?


The feeling I get from non paranoid qualified experts like Dr.Fauci is that its more about Chinese authorities refusing a full investigation, than any strong belief it definitely did not occur naturally.

"Separately, at the White House, Fauci said many scientists stil believe the disease occurred naturally, but it's also imperative to get to the bottom of it with more investigation.
An adviser for the World Health Organization, Jamie Metzl, said the lab-leak theory is possible while scientists were "poking and prodding and studying" viruses with the good intention of developing vaccines.
"Then I believe what possibly happened was there was an accidental leak followed by a criminal cover-up," said Metzl, who served in the Clinton administration in the US Department of State and is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.
Fauci, the top infectious disease expert in the US, also said this week he is not convinced the disease occurred naturally and pushed for more investigation.
That is the takeaway here: There needs to be more investigation.
The official word on the origin of Covid-19 is not good enough"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/25/politics/wuhan-lab-covid-origin-theory/index.html


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## SG854 (May 26, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> The feeling I get from non paranoid qualified experts like Dr.Fauci is that its more about Chinese authorities refusing a full investigation, than any strong belief it definitely did not occur naturally.
> 
> "Separately, at the White House, Fauci said many scientists stil believe the disease occurred naturally, but it's also imperative to get to the bottom of it with more investigation.
> An adviser for the World Health Organization, Jamie Metzl, said the lab-leak theory is possible while scientists were "poking and prodding and studying" viruses with the good intention of developing vaccines.
> ...


When the Corona Virus first broke out I saw a video from a guy living in China. He was a White guy living there with his Chinese Wife. And he was talking about the Chinese Government trying to cover up the fact that covid existed. They were telling doctors not to go public with the information about the patients they been helping, which was early on before the world knew about covid. And the government was kidnapping and throwing people in jail. His friend was thrown in jail and hasn't seen him since.

The guy had to escape China before Chinese gov would block his pass ports. So he separated from his wife and kid a bit. He did manage to escape China.

That CNN article seems to verify alot about what China has been doing according to what that guy was saying.

The lab leak theory is a possibility that needs to be taken seriously. And the U.S. intelligence report now suggests that the WHO was wrong about Doctors not being sick earlier then December.


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## Darth Meteos (May 26, 2021)

Costello said:


> to be fair... this is one of the rare places where you'll get to hear both sides (or every side, if you think of it as a spectrum)
> we welcome everyone regardless of their political affiliation, we just ask people to remain civil, but that doesn't mean we can force them to reason with logic
> 
> There are other places like imgur, Parler (or whatever it's called now) that are downright echo chambers - on these, you only get what you want to read and are never confronted to other opinions. These aren't places where you'll grow to be a more open-minded person.


On one hand, that's why I come here. On the other hand, the arguments here aren't generally between two reasonable places.
Not always(!)
But often enough


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## WorldOfNerds (May 26, 2021)

Costello said:


> to be fair... this is one of the rare places where you'll get to hear both sides (or every side, if you think of it as a spectrum)
> we welcome everyone regardless of their political affiliation, we just ask people to remain civil, but that doesn't mean we can force them to reason with logic
> 
> There are other places like imgur, Parler (or whatever it's called now) that are downright echo chambers - on these, you only get what you want to read and are never confronted to other opinions. These aren't places where you'll grow to be a more open-minded person.



It's thanks to admins like you that we can have civil arguments over political matters without the downward pressure of fearing you'll get a backhand to the face for mentioning any country, and or they're operations in a negative manner. 
Keep being awesome


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## DoubleDate (May 26, 2021)

China will never admit that the virus broke from a lab. I remember very early on how the Chinese goverment toke hard actions against people who wanted to say anything about it. There was one doctor guy who wanted to warn and tell people about it, it was a scientist, he died a few weeks after the outbreak in misterious circumstances. Not only him but others have been taken out hard before the whole thing became worldwide known.

Im not a conspirycist person, but i trully believe that out there are labs that contains very deadly virusses that could wipe out the entire human race. I do believe as well that there are far more worser virusses than this one. The world is not prepared for another case like this magnitude. If another one breaks out ( Probs will, its a matter of time, when and how) I hope that it doesn't take out a large portion of the population.

I trully honestly believe that the virus escaped from a lab in China. They blamed it at the start on people eating bats, something that has been around for years.


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## WorldOfNerds (May 26, 2021)

GhostLatte said:


> Any particular reason not to get the vaccine?



Depends on what one and the situation you're country is currently in.

In the case of AstraZeneca, multiple reports have come in of severe blood clots 3-7 days after receiving the vaccine, even with the low risk factor, and the supposed fact that the blood clots are already there but the vaccine makes them worse.

I wouldn't get AstraZeneca, but I would go for another, possibly more stable vaccine.

Also, take into account that if the Indian Double-Mutant variant strain gets loose, then these vaccines will be rendered useless to it, as the vaccine is made from CoV-19's spike protein, and this particular variant has evolved to change it to avoid being weakened, and possibly neutralized.

So, in summary, do get the vaccine as it will prevent you're death from the majority of variants, just don't get AstraZeneca.



DoubleDate said:


> China will never admit that the virus broke from a lab. I remember very early on how the Chinese goverment toke hard actions against people who wanted to say anything about it. There was one doctor guy who wanted to warn and tell people about it, it was a scientist, he died a few weeks after the outbreak in misterious circumstances. Not only him but others have been taken out hard before the whole thing became worldwide known.
> 
> Im not a conspirycist person, but i trully believe that out there are labs that contains very deadly virusses that could wipe out the entire human race. I do believe as well that there are far more worser virus than this one. The world is not prepared for another case as this magnitude. If another one breaks out ( Probs will, its a matter of time, when and how) I hope that it doesn't take out a large portion of the population.
> 
> I trully honestly believe the virus escaped from a lab in China. They blamed it at the start on people eating bats, something that has been around for years.



It is wholly possible it did, but I have my doubts that it was created, rather discovered, kept on the down-low, and then broke out of whatever containment it was in at the time.


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## Alexander1970 (May 26, 2021)

> *Strong Posibility Covid 19 came from a Lab*






Valwinz said:


> Remember when certain people here say it was a conspiracy lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1396594501293072385
> 
> ...


(maybe adding a little Addition - "Coincidence" that they blame some "Doctors" that they have "maybe" brought it to Austria in beginning 2020....)

....of course this Virus is "artificial"....
Such strong and deadly (and so quick mutating) Virus can not "born" naturally....

Only with the help of "god-playing" People,such a Thing can come about.

God Himself or Mother Earth have nothing to do with it.....


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## pin (May 26, 2021)

alexander1970 said:


> (maybe adding a little Addition - "Coincidence" that they blame some "Doctors" that they have "maybe" brought it to Austria in beginning 2020....)
> 
> ....of course this Virus is "artificial"....
> Such strong and deadly (and so quick mutating) Virus can not "born" naturally....
> ...



Oh, sure, because this has never happened before has it?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#Influenza_pandemics


----------



## Alexander1970 (May 26, 2021)

pin said:


> Oh, sure, because this has never happened before has it?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#Influenza_pandemics





alexander1970 said:


> (maybe adding a little Addition - "Coincidence" that they blame some "Doctors" that they have "maybe" brought it to Austria in beginning 2020....)
> 
> ....of course this Virus is "artificial"....
> Such strong and deadly (a*nd so quick mutating*) Virus can not "born" naturally....
> ...


----------



## Goku1992A (May 26, 2021)

More than likely yes.... but you will never know 

Humans been around for nearly a long period of time however in the last 50 years all these "viruses" came out of nowhere.... but then again in Asia when you're eating bats and other animals that carry diseases it's possible to a virus to get carried that way. 

Lots of viruses comes from us doing something really questionable.


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## WorldOfNerds (May 26, 2021)

Goku1992A said:


> More than likely yes.... but you will never know
> 
> Humans been around for nearly a long period of time however in the last 50 years all these "viruses" came out of nowhere.... but then again in Asia when you're eating bats and other animals that carry diseases it's possible to a virus to get carried that way.
> 
> Lots of viruses comes from us doing something really questionable.



This makes me think about how we would've discovered that cow's milk is consumable. 

I mean, did someone just find a cow and decide to touch its udder because it looks mildly like an oversized breast with multiple nipples?


----------



## gamesquest1 (May 26, 2021)

WorldOfNerds said:


> This makes me think about how we would've discovered that cow's milk is consumable.
> 
> I mean, did someone just find a cow and decide to touch its udder because it looks mildly like an oversized breast with multiple nipples?


no, they probably saw a baby cow drinking milk and though, damn I'm starving I think I'm going to die, I'll just have some of that, and lived to tell the wonders of cow milk.....until the milk is bad for you thread pop up and everyone turned their backs on milk forever

as for the topic at hand, I think its likely it was leaked from the wuhan lab, its just too coincidental for my liking that of all the places on earth it could first appear it would be right next to a lab that had been working on corona viruses, whether it was manipulated to spread to humans or they just had so many strains in storage that one of them would end up being is another issue, but even if the powers that be had 100% proof I doubt it would ever be disclosed the entire world depends too much on the outsourced effectively unpaid workers that china has to offer big international companies and the cash that will inevitably land in politicians pockets as long as they plod along and look the other way.


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## WorldOfNerds (May 26, 2021)

gamesquest1 said:


> no, they probably saw a baby cow drinking milk and though, damn I'm starving I think I'm going to die, I'll just have some of that, and lived to tell the wonders of cow milk.....until the milk is bad for you thread pop up and everyone turned their backs on milk forever
> 
> as for the topic at hand, I think its likely it was leaked from the wuhan lab, its just too coincidental for my liking that of all the places on earth it could first appear it would be right next to a lab that had been working on corona viruses, whether it was manipulated to spread to humans or they just had so many strains in storage that one of them would end up being is another issue, but even if the powers that be had 100% proof I doubt it would ever be disclosed the entire world depends too much on the outsourced effectively unpaid workers that china has to offer big international companies and the cash that will inevitably land in politicians pockets as long as they plod along and look the other way.



I actually mentioned before that it likely broke out of lab containment, which may have been from a bat. Although, I'm still open to the theory that it came from a wet market, which one of the scientists could've visited, which would be yet another possibility of how they contracted it first.


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## gamesquest1 (May 26, 2021)

WorldOfNerds said:


> I actually mentioned before that it likely broke out of lab containment, which may have been from a bat. Although, I'm still open to the theory that it came from a wet market, which one of the scientists could've visited, which would be yet another possibility of how they contracted it first.


yeah but lets be real its like finding a convicted murderer who sent a message to someone saying I'm coming to kill you right now found standing over their body covered in blood with a knife in their hand  and their excuse is "someone else did it I just found them like that and slipped on the blood and accidentally picked up the knife in shock", there is enough circumstantial evidence to convince me that they committed the murder even though I couldn't say I'm 100% certain without cctv footage of them actually doing it, could I be wrong, sure, but come on really what are the odds of that setup happening


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## Goku1992A (May 26, 2021)

gamesquest1 said:


> yeah but lets be real its like finding a convicted murderer who sent a message to someone saying I'm coming to kill you right now found standing over their body covered in blood with a knife in their hand  and their excuse is "someone else did it I just found them like that and slipped on the blood and accidentally picked up the knife in shock", there is enough circumstantial evidence to convince me that they committed the murder even though I couldn't say I'm 100% certain without cctv footage of them actually doing it, could I be wrong, sure, but come on really what are the odds of that setup happening



Well other countries are always working on weapons of mass destruction. Bill Gates even predicted the pandemic a long time ago lets just say someone came with a killer virus that dropped it in the air you will never know. 



WorldOfNerds said:


> This makes me think about how we would've discovered that cow's milk is consumable.
> 
> I mean, did someone just find a cow and decide to touch its udder because it looks mildly like an oversized breast with multiple nipples?



Half of the things we have today came from a mistake like an "oh shit moment" hence potato chips lol


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## The Catboy (May 26, 2021)

Considering the fact that most "evidence" of Covid19 being made in a lab has been circumstantial, misinformation, and or conspiracies, I honestly find it unlikely that it was created in a lab. There's also a lot of ignoring of pandemics in the past in play in order to consider Covid19 to be a special case. The main contributor to Covid19's spread has been stupid people doing stupid shit like not social distancing, not wearing a mask, and so on.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 27, 2021)

China was the first to notice COVID19. That does not mean China is the origin. I repeat: Red Cross study of December 2019 and January 2020.
US Americans asking for compensation is cute, however. *Vie* *cough* tnam* *I*cough*rak* *cough*


----------



## Deleted User (May 27, 2021)

From a Mental Health perspective, it's easy to focus on the scale of Citizens but forget the reality of the Collective, i.e. Nation.

While most Asian Countries hunkered down and relied on Societal emphasis on the Greater Good to get everyone on board with Social Distancing and Face Mask wear, most of the West went into a tirade of finding someone else to blame for their ineptitude, a Sacrificial Goat for Public Consumption.

Then there are the Officials who sanctioned Nationwide Herd Immunity drives that accepted people will die in the process. Let's not forget the Officials who committed suicide because they thought this was going to be the end of the World.

Let that sink in for a minute. 
Western Mental Health; gotta love it.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (May 28, 2021)

Costello said:


> to be fair... this is one of the rare places where you'll get to hear both sides (or every side, if you think of it as a spectrum)
> we welcome everyone regardless of their political affiliation, we just ask people to remain civil, but that doesn't mean we can force them to reason with logic
> 
> There are other places like imgur, Parler (or whatever it's called now) that are downright echo chambers - on these, you only get what you want to read and are never confronted to other opinions. These aren't places where you'll grow to be a more open-minded person.



Up until a couple days ago major social media platforms would censor or delete any posts questioning if the virus originated in a lab. gbatemp might not be the biggest of the bunch, but at least we're allowed to actually not have to consume their garbage. Thanks a ton for running a great site!

In what kind of world do we live in when are our comments are deleted by "fact checkers"? Seems a bit unreal to me. Major social media censorship can GTFO.


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## DoubleDate (May 28, 2021)

I've read on the news today that China refuses in any way to collaborate and work with investigators to find out if the Virus originated from a lab, they said that the West are in a way to blame them for the outbreak. Well, if they really didn't have nothing to hide i think they would have let investigators work close with the goverment to find out what caused it. I still stand to believe that the virus did escape from a lab.


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## Xzi (May 28, 2021)

Goku1992A said:


> Bill Gates even predicted the pandemic a long time ago lets just say someone came with a killer virus that dropped it in the air you will never know.


Between 2010 and 2019, tons of people predicted that we were overdue for the next big global pandemic.  Which is also why Obama created a federal pandemic response team.  Sure could've used that in the fight against COVID, especially early on, but alas Trump disbanded it the same year he was inaugurated.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 28, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I've read on the news today that China refuses


 And I read the US still refuses to let their lab be inspected.


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## Darth Meteos (May 28, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> And I read the US still refuses to let their lab be inspected.


imagine being such a dumbass that your response to obvious idiocy is whataboutism

i can't believe i have to say this, but _don't pivot the discourse about bullshit fearmongering to "let's debate which lab it was made in" instead of "this is stupid and wrong"_


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 28, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> imagine being such a dumbass that your response to obvious idiocy is whataboutism


Imagine being so close-minded that the lab theory must be wrong due to ideology alone and that consistency is dismissed as whataboutism.
It is a fact that viruses are being tested in labs in order to study them.
Even if it came from a lab, it does not prove malice.
It is also a fact that the US wants an international investigation into a Chinese lab and China wants the same for a US lab.

4 facts you cannot handle apparently.


----------



## plasturion (May 28, 2021)

The facts is that virusology lab in Wuhan recive much money for reproducing viruses . Thinking about procedures and how small viruses are... it's obvious there's not possible to keep all the viruses in the lab, certainly most of them get out of the lab and dried out. It's not a living form like bacteria... it needs a host provider, maybe this one was "successful". There are some fooprints around black Peter - Peter Daszak - zoologist who is claiming that it evolved from animal.. That's more ridiculus than something comes out from the lab. That needs some investigations around that person and his close connections.


----------



## Gep_Etto (May 28, 2021)

In other news, the Earth is flat and the Moon is actually a hollowed-out satellite base from where the lizard people control people's minds via fluoride in the water, chemtrails, mercury in our vaccines and 5G towers. The COVID vaccine will turn us all into alligators and the hormones in the food are turning all the frogs gay. Queen Elizabeth II is actually an immortal half-human half-lizard person and she'll soon reveal her Mark of the Beast when she ushers in Satan's 1000-year reign as predicted in the Book of Revelations.


----------



## Deleted User (May 28, 2021)

Gep_Etto said:


> In other news, the Earth is flat and the Moon is actually a hollowed-out satellite base from where the lizard people control people's minds via fluoride in the water, chemtrails, mercury in our vaccines and 5G towers. The COVID vaccine will turn us all into alligators and the hormones in the food are turning all the frogs gay. Queen Elizabeth II is actually an immortal half-human half-lizard person and she'll soon reveal her Mark of the Beast when she ushers in Satan's 1000-year reign as predicted in the Book of Revelations.


this post is useless and idiotic.


----------



## Darth Meteos (May 28, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Imagine being so close-minded that the lab theory must be wrong due to ideology alone...


This thread has been a series of decisive dunks on the sources used to justify the conjecture that COVID-19 originated in a lab. I am not going to waste my time re-stating them.

I repeat: Don't pivot the discourse about bullshit fearmongering to "Let's debate which lab it was made in," instead of "This is stupid and wrong."


----------



## plasturion (May 28, 2021)




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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 28, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> I repeat: Don't pivot the discourse about bullshit fearmongering to "Let's debate which lab it was made in," instead of "This is stupid and wrong."


I see. So...
investigation = fearmongering
consistency = whataboutism

How about
truth = cantankerousness

Gullible people who claim to know where the virus came from are just as dangerous as those dismissing possibilities to due ideological bias. All I have to say about this.


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## laudern (May 28, 2021)

I love seeing the mental gymnastics from all the trump derangement syndrome suffers come up with any excuse under the sun in hope that this isn't true. Which to anyone with half a logical brain cell, can see it's blindly obvious. 

What are the chances a " highly deadly" (cough cough) virus would just so magically originate from the exact same location a viral lab is operating, but yet not related. 

Gee I guess if it isn't related the next world wide pandemic could quite easily come from Antarctic or the sahara desert with left wing logic.


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## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> This thread has been a series of decisive dunks on the sources used to justify the conjecture that COVID-19 originated in a lab. I am not going to waste my time re-stating them.
> 
> I repeat: Don't pivot the discourse about bullshit fearmongering to "Let's debate which lab it was made in," instead of "This is stupid and wrong."


You didn't read what he said.

He said the lab theory doesn't mean it was made in a lab. Alot of users keep saying that, but I guess the people responding don't actually read the comments because once they hear the word lab theory they automatically assume it means made in a lab and they go straight for an attack.

Some of the people talking about lab theory are talking about the scientist that study viruses, since it's there job to collect viruses from the Wild and study it, and could've mishandled the COVID-19 virus while studying it and got infected and from there it spread. Usually with no mention at all that it was made in a lab.

Even Dr. Fauchi wants to look into the lab theory as a possibility. He still says he believes it's nature occurring, but there is a possibility that it leaked from the lab. And honestly scientist should look into all possibilities because that's how you do proper science and not biased science.

Recent reports have shown that I think CNN talked about that they found the doctors to be sick sooner then they thought in around November of 2019. Which if true shows that the Who's information was wrong. I see nothing wrong at looking into all possibilities.


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## DoubleDate (May 29, 2021)

Where there's smoke there's fire.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9630825/Is-finally-proof-Covid-DID-leak-Wuhan-lab.html

Many people still refuse to believe that it might be the case. Well, no world leader is going to do anything about it. Some talking about some sanction and that's it, China will never be hold accountable.


----------



## Xzi (May 29, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Where there's smoke there's fire.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9630825/Is-finally-proof-Covid-DID-leak-Wuhan-lab.html
> 
> Many people still refuse to believe that it might be the case. Well, no world leader is going to do anything about it. Some talking about some sanction and that's it, China will never be hold accountable.


For the love of god, stop linking Daily Mail as a source.  Even The Onion is more accurate and trustworthy.


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## DoubleDate (May 29, 2021)

Xzi said:


> For the love of god, stop linking Daily Mail as a source.  Even The Onion is more accurate and trustworthy.



That is not true at all. You probably dislike Dailymail, i havent encountered any untruthful news, as i check also major News outlets in the Netherlands and they report the same. Every major news on the Dailymail i can also find on big news stations in The Netherlands. If you dont like the site that is okay, but commenting that it is a bad site because you say so is another thing. No disrespect meant to you.


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## Lacius (May 29, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Where there's smoke there's fire.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9630825/Is-finally-proof-Covid-DID-leak-Wuhan-lab.html
> 
> Many people still refuse to believe that it might be the case. Well, no world leader is going to do anything about it. Some talking about some sanction and that's it, China will never be hold accountable.


We definitely don't know that the virus originated from a lab, and even if it did, that doesn't mean it was artificially created. The lab isolates naturally occurring viruses all the time. We also know the virus was probably circulating around Wuhan some time before we previously thought it was.


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## Xzi (May 29, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> You probably dislike Dailymail


I have nothing against it as a tabloid, but that's all it has ever been and all it will ever be.  At their best they take stories from other, more reputable outlets, and change up the title/contents just enough to avoid being ridiculed for it.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/


> Factual Reporting: *LOW*
> MBFC Credibility Rating:* LOW CREDIBILITY*


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## DoubleDate (May 29, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I have nothing against it as a tabloid, but that's all it has ever been and all it will ever be.  At their best they take stories from other, more reputable outlets, and change up the title/contents just enough to avoid being ridiculed for it.



It has his own sections, tabloids and news apart, world news events posted there i also can find it on Dutch news coverage websites, are you also implying that the biggest news sites in The Netherlands are collaborating with the Dailymail to spout out non true news? Seems far fetched doesn't it.

Every news site has also its tabloids part, nothing new. If the site was full of fake news i would've agreed with you, but every news posted there, i see it also on different news sites. I yet have to find a part where Dailymail is posting unreliable news. Again no disrespect meant to you.


----------



## Xzi (May 29, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> It has his own sections different from world news events that i also can find on Dutch news coverage websites, are you also implying that the biggest news sites in The Netherlands are cllaborating with the Dailymail to spout out non true news? Seems far fetched doesn't it.


It's the obvious bias and narrative they're trying to spin that's the big issue here.  Everybody else is only reporting that some researchers fell sick in November, which on its own means a whole lot of nothing.  But how does Daily Mail report it?  "We have PROOF that COVID DEFINITELY ORIGINATED from this LAB in WUHAN!!1"  Sensationalist horseshit.


----------



## DoubleDate (May 29, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It's the obvious bias and narrative they're trying to spin that's the big issue here.  Everybody else is only reporting that some researchers fell sick in November, which on its own means a whole lot of nothing.  But how does Daily Mail report it?  "We have PROOF that COVID DEFINITELY ORIGINATED from this LAB in WUHAN!!1"  Sensationalist horseshit.



You are very biased against the Dailymail. Here in The Netherlands it was also on tv people talking about that the virus might escaped from a lab in China. Its not the Dailymail the only one reporting it, also a news site in the Carribean, far away from the UK is reporting the same thing. But again China will never be hold responsible for it, never gonna happen even if they admit it themselfs. Why? Because China brings in a lot of money, biggest market in the world.

But okay, i respect your view and your opinion. I just dont agree that Dailymail is that bad as you say that it is.


----------



## Xzi (May 29, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> You are very biased against the Dailymail.


I'm simply not its target audience, so it fails at feeding my own opinions back to me or emotionally manipulating me into an endless loop of fear and rage.  I'll wait to form my opinion on the matter until the investigation is concluded and all the facts have been presented to us.  Any reputable news outlet worth your time always does the same.


----------



## DoubleDate (May 29, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I'm simply not its target audience, so it fails at feeding my own opinions back to me or emotionally manipulating me into an endless loop of fear and rage.  I'll wait to form my opinion on the matter until the investigation is concluded and all the facts have been presented to us.  Any reputable news outlet worth your time always does the same.



That its is not your target audience is comprenhensible, i can understand that, but calling it a site posting fake news because its not to your liking seems biased to me. Again, all the news posted there can be found on reliable big Dutch news websites. Anyways even if China was behind it no one will ever know, that information will never be on public domain. 

Well, we both agree to disagree.


----------



## Darth Meteos (May 29, 2021)

SG854 said:


> I see nothing wrong at looking into all possibilities.


I read it. The problem is not "We should determine the origin of COVID," that's absurd. The problem is that it's being used as a political tool. As far as we know, the closest relative of SARS-CoV-2 reported from the Wuhan lab is about a dozen mutations away, even the fucking Daily Mail got that one right. Therefore, seeing as the evidence is thin as fuck, there is no need to pivot away from "there is all but no evidence yet, this is stupid and wrong."

Further evidence will change my position on this issue. As it is, this thread is highly cancerous, and full of over-reactionary garbage.



DoubleDate said:


> Calling it a site posting fake news because its not to your liking seems biased to me.


"to your liking"
This assumes that there are two equally valid positions.

One position is correct and fact-based.
The other is anti-intellectual and full of inconsistency.
The Daily Mail is not a bad source because the content is upsetting to Xzi, it's because it's fuckin' false.


----------



## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> That its is not your target audience is comprenhensible, i can understand that, but calling it a site posting fake news because its not to your liking seems biased to me. Again, all the news posted there can be found on reliable big Dutch news websites. Anyways even if China was behind it no one will ever know, that information will never be on public domain.
> 
> Well, we both agree to disagree.


The daily mail is only one source. If anyone is to take what it says seriously you need multiple sources that says the same thing. And also confirmation by the who and major doctors that are the big front runners when it comes to covid information like Dr. Fauchi.

Without all this backing then no one will take the information seriously and the only people who will are people who don't know how to research properly, they are the ones that will be suckered into it.


----------



## SAIYAN48 (May 29, 2021)

Considering China's crimes against humanity and that the rumour that they have been working on bio-weapons, it wouldn't suprise me if COVID was created in a lab.


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## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> I read it. The problem is not "We should determine the origin of COVID," that's absurd. The problem is that it's being used as a political tool. As far as we know, the closest relative of SARS-CoV-2 reported from the Wuhan lab is about a dozen mutations away, even the fucking Daily Mail got that one right. Therefore, seeing as the evidence is thin as fuck, there is no need to pivot away from "there is all but no evidence yet, this is stupid and wrong."
> 
> Further evidence will change my position on this issue. As it is, this thread is highly cancerous, and full of over-reactionary garbage.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter if it's being used as a political tool. Researches should not be prevented from doing research. That should not be an excuse to deter from what a researcher is suppose to do.

They should still look into the lab as a possibility. Because then you are not doing proper research. If you can't look into the lab as a possibility then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that there is all but no evidence yet. Looking at all possibilities is not stupid and wrong. It's how you do research properly in a non biased manner.

If your so sure that it's naturally occurring then your theory should be air tight no matter what you throw at it. You should always try to disprove yourself rather then confirm your biases. That's how actual research is done. It only makes your belief that its naturally occurring in nature stronger when no matter how many times you try to disapprove it, it stills holds up.


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## Darth Meteos (May 29, 2021)

SG854 said:


> It doesn't matter if it's being used as a political tool. Researches should not be prevented from doing research. That should not be an excuse to deter from what a researcher is suppose to do.


Ah yes, because what I am doing is preventing researchers from doing their job. I'm burning the evidence as we speak. 

I'm saying the discourse is shit, that no findings have been finalized, and everything we do have access to is no proof at all. That discussing this in any way other than dismissively until actual evidence appears just _might_ be a good idea. That's why I opened with "Don't pivot," because I way referring to the conduct of the people putting out fires.


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## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Ah yes, because what I am doing is preventing researchers from doing their job. I'm burning the evidence as we speak.
> 
> I'm saying the discourse is shit, that no findings have been finalized, and everything we do have access to is no proof at all. That discussing this in any way other than dismissively until actual evidence appears just _might_ be a good idea. That's why I opened with "Don't pivot," because I way referring to the conduct of the people putting out fires.


A random comment on a Gaming forum is definitely not preventing anything ha ha. But you get what I mean in a general sense.

Discourse is not shit. It's what helps people understand what's going on and crushes any conspiracy theories and people acting crazy based on that. You may not think it does nothing because some of the people you debate here are hard headed. But trust me these discourses are a good thing and many people do come to their senses from them even if you don't see or hear from them.


----------



## Deleted User (May 29, 2021)

Unfortunately, people read into things what they want to read, which is why most come into Forums looking for confirmation on their bias more than anything else.

The World has seen Bioweapons.
The World knows how to create effective Bioweapons.
The principles of said effective Bioweapon is that it has to be immediate and can be focused as a weapon.

Anyone who thinks COVID-19 is a Manmade Bioweapon has no competence talking about Biological Warfare.

That said, it can very well be claimed as a Bioweapon, much like every other Viral Infection that Humans have had to adapt to, so I suggest forming an International Committee and sending a strongly-worded objection to Mother Nature ...


----------



## SAIYAN48 (May 29, 2021)

Why cause WW3, when you can unleash COVID and no one will do anything to your country?


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## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

XAIXER said:


> Why cause WW3, when you can unleash COVID and no one will do anything to your country?


Why cause WW3, when you can unleash Fast-food and no will will do anything to your country?

They are secretly making everyone too fat to fight back conspiracy theory to watch out for.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (May 29, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Even Dr. Fauchi wants to look into the lab theory as a possibility. He still says he believes it's nature occurring, but there is a possibility that it leaked from the lab. And honestly scientist should look into all possibilities because that's how you do proper science and *not biased science*.



Liberals base their entire existence on biased science.


----------



## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Liberals base their entire existence on biased science.


I hope you didn't get that opinion from biased sources.


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## Xzi (May 29, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Liberals base their entire existence on biased science.


"Biased science" doesn't survive the scientific method.  And any science that doesn't use the scientific method isn't actually science to begin with.


----------



## Iamapirate (May 29, 2021)

media's about a year late in telling us what we already know.


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## Darth Meteos (May 29, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Discourse is not shit. It's what helps people understand what's going on and crushes any conspiracy theories and people acting crazy based on that. You may not think it does nothing because some of the people you debate here are hard headed. But trust me these discourses are a good thing and many people do come to their senses from them even if you don't see or hear from them.


i am genuinely saying this: is there a language barrier here? you're understanding the broad strokes of my point, but you're not picking up on the nuance at all
you don't seem bad faith, is this a translation issue?


----------



## SG854 (May 29, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> i am genuinely saying this: is there a language barrier here? you're understanding the broad strokes of my point, but you're not picking up on the nuance at all
> you don't seem bad faith, is this a translation issue?


I had a hard time trying to understand what you were saying. I had to re-read what you said a couple trying to get what you were saying.

Unless you are direct with clear to understand writing I don't easily pick up on the gist of what you are saying. It's how I am.


----------



## Darth Meteos (May 29, 2021)

SG854 said:


> I had a hard time trying to understand what you were saying. I had to re-read what you said a couple trying to get what you were saying.


Understood.
My position:

I am in favor of any kind of research into the origins of COVID-19, but nothing concrete has been discovered yet.
This thread in particular is filled with fearmongering and badly sourced evidence, and is- in my opinion- not a useful discussion, since there is no data available to decide the issue. We are speculating wildly based on partisan beliefs.
I am opposed to engaging in this circular discussion with any kind of defensive move, because it makes a debate error called _presupposing a frame. _ This means that it (the argument/point) inherently concedes a point. In this case, arguing _where_ the virus came from is presupposing that the virus is the result of a containment leak, which has not been proven in any regard, and is a bad argument in this context.


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## leon315 (May 29, 2021)

but how american intelligence access chinese hospital records? 
didn't Chinese media said same thing about USA claiming that during pre-pandemic era 2019-2020, there were 10s of thousands of american died at "mysterious flu" with pneumia?


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## PiracyForTheMasses (May 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We don't know that the lab researchers had COVID-19.
> We do know that COVID-19 might have been circulating around the Wuhan area earlier than previously thought, perhaps weeks/months earlier.
> There's currently no reason to think SARS‑CoV‑2 came from a lab. All of the presently available evidence indicates it was naturally occurring.


Nice try. There is literally no evidence what so ever that indicates covid is naturally occurring. There is evidence that covid can be and has been created in a lab because it has already been recreated in a LAB. There is evidence that China and WHO have not been honest. There is evidence of China trying to blame other countries. There is evidence of China creating viruses to use as weapons. Burden of proof rest on CCP and they have not proven anything.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 30, 2021)

PiracyForTheMasses said:


> There is evidence of China creating viruses to use as weapons.


Are you referring to COVID19?


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## Lacius (May 30, 2021)

PiracyForTheMasses said:


> Nice try. There is literally no evidence what so ever that indicates covid is naturally occurring. There is evidence that covid can be and has been created in a lab because it has already been recreated in a LAB. There is evidence that China and WHO have not been honest. There is evidence of China trying to blame other countries. There is evidence of China creating viruses to use as weapons. Burden of proof rest on CCP and they have not proven anything.


The burden of proof is on the one making the claim that the virus was artificially created. We have genetic evidence the virus arose zoonotically, and it's likely it occurred naturally. It could have happened outside a fish market, in the wild before being isolated in a lab, etc. We don't know for sure where it came from, but there's no evidence whatsoever it was intelligently designed.


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## Seliph (May 30, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Liberals base their entire existence on biased science.


What the hell are you talking about???? Does this have something to do with the Doinya?


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## DoubleDate (May 30, 2021)

I can understand that people are skeptical about it, but its has indeed been proved that Covid did not originate naturally, its has been created manually, no connection to bats or anything of that form. People are been fooled, i in no way believe that the whole thing just came from "Bats" People in China have been eating bats for ages and suddendly Covid rises up from people just eating it? Its disgusting to eats those creatures, but it has been happening for many years.

China has been doing a lot of cover up. There is something about a lady who was the first one to have Covid symptoms, was diagnosed before the whole thing was known into the world, and China lied about it. As i commented in earlier post, China will never admit it nor let people investigate.


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## notimp (May 30, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It's the obvious bias and narrative they're trying to spin that's the big issue here.  Everybody else is only reporting that some researchers fell sick in November, which on its own means a whole lot of nothing.  But how does Daily Mail report it?  "We have PROOF that COVID DEFINITELY ORIGINATED from this LAB in WUHAN!!1"  Sensationalist horseshit.


Tentatively agree.  See:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-med...r-the-coronavirus.559721/page-26#post-9471901

Channels that first pushed it in my country were pro US sources in that paper. That was about a week or so, before the US health minister made the public plea for "further investigation".

Scientific stance right before that had been at "a few prominent voices argue for not ruling the lab theory out" - which came down to two scientists of somewhat international renown and no one else. After the media blitz, new info actually pointing into the direction of the lab theory, was exactly zero - scientists got sick was a human interest story, and also nothing new afair. So you had a pretty coordinated media operation, with nothing that would drive one on its own ("newsworthyness").

This screams foreign (or domestic?) policy move to me - regardless of if true or not -- which obviously will be very hard to impossible to find out. Yet the US secretary of health pointed at the need to find out. Which also is odd - because chances are, that we will not. In any case.


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## Lacius (May 30, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I can understand that people are skeptical about it, but its has indeed been proved that Covid did not originate naturally, its has been created manually, no connection to bats or anything of that form.


None of this is remotely true. There's no evidence the virus was human-created, and there is genetic evidence the virus began in bats.


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## DoubleDate (May 30, 2021)

Lacius said:


> None of this is remotely true. There's no evidence the virus was human-created, and there is genetic evidence the virus began in bats.



Well then, the people who was on the news today who said that are liars then. The US is also meddling into the whole thing, Biden ordered an "unexaminated data" to be examinated with super computers to see where the virus originated from. If it was naturally why would Biden even consider that option? Its because researchers found that its origin was not something from the wild.

Do you honestly believe that there are no Bioweapons? They are there, and the public will never know about it.


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## Lacius (May 30, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Well then, the people who was on the news today who said that are liars then.


If they said the virus was artificially created, and we have proof it was, and we have evidence it wasn't naturally occurring, then yes, they are liars.



DoubleDate said:


> The US is also meddling into the whole thing, Biden ordered an "unexaminated data" to be examinated with super computers to see where the virus originated from. If it was naturally why would Biden even consider that option? Its because researchers found that its origin was not something from the wild.
> 
> Do you honestly believe that there are no Bioweapons? They are there, and the public will never know about it.


We are not 100% sure where it originated, there's more doubt than ever where it originated, and it is entirely possible that the spread started with the lab. It is important we find out to the best of our ability how and where it originated.

Personally, I believe there is a decent likelihood the virus spread from the lab, but this is also a lab that routinely isolates naturally occurring viruses. It could be COVID-19 occurred naturally, was isolated, and then there was a contamination that was covered up. However, I think it is equally likely this naturally occurring virus started elsewhere and made its way to people who worked in the lab later. We know it was probably circulating around the area weeks or more before we knew about it, and that's in line with what was reported about the hospitalizations of people who worked at the lab.

In summary, there is no evidence the virus was artificially created, there is genetic evidence it originated in bats, and there's confusion about where and when it originated before it became widespread.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 30, 2021)

The truth is, 90% of people or so (excluding me) believe what they want to believe.
Did Floyd die from an drug overdose or a knee on the kneck?
Is global warming mainly caused by humans or not?
Are homosexuals born with their orientation?
Is race genetic?
Can one become a woman despite having a male body or not?
...
I can tell you how most of you would answer if just told me one info about yourselves.
Predictable robots. COVID19 is just one more example.


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## Lacius (May 30, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> The truth is, 90% of people or so (excluding me) believe what they want to believe.
> Did Floyd die from an drug overdose or a knee on the kneck?
> Is global warming mainly caused by humans or not?
> Are homosexuals born with their orientation?
> ...



Floyd died from a knee on his neck. He objectively wouldn't have died without it, regardless of contributing factors.
Global warming is happening as a direct consequence of humans burning fossil fuels and releasing other greenhouse gases.
Homosexuality is an immutable characteristic, and there appears to be a biological component that makes one more or less likely to be homosexual.
Gender is an identity, unlike sex. A person can have a male sex and a female gender.
These are all objective facts.


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## WG481 (May 30, 2021)

@UltraDolphinRevolution 
Dude.
"The truth is, 90% of people or so (excluding me) believe what they want to believe."
HAHA!
Factual bullsh*t.

Human nature is believing things you want to believe. Researchers like me who examine things heavily still have an opinion on things they want to believe. Why? We're human.

I can answer those questions simply. With scientific answers.

1. Knee. Autopsy confirmed here. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...george-floyd-s-death-homicide-blames-n1263670
2. Called climate change mate. Places are getting colder too. Human carbon emission has increased the speed, so yes. But the Earth has changed like this for million of years, so no.
3. No. Disproven here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/are-straight-people-born-that-way/254592/
4. Yes, partially, bust mostly evolutionary. Humans evolved to the climates, ecosystems, and environments they were in. 
5. Yes. Hormonal transfers.

You better disprove your IQ being lower than room temperature.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 30, 2021)

I am not going to respond for the sake of not rerailing this thread.


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## SG854 (May 30, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If they said the virus was artificially created, and we have proof it was, and we have evidence it wasn't naturally occurring, then yes, they are liars.
> 
> 
> We are not 100% sure where it originated, there's more doubt than ever where it originated, and it is entirely possible that the spread started with the lab. It is important we find out to the best of our ability how and where it originated.
> ...


You are right about the cover up

It was weird that for 1 yr the WHO wasn't allowed in the Wuhan labs to investigate anything.

It's also weird that they were ruling out a lab leak as a possibility before they even did an investigation in the lab.


And do you think the CCP will tell the WHO the truth? There has been times when they tried to do an investigation and the ccp would always try to divert attention to something else. Like sending them to museums instead of the lab. Museums that talks about the ccp's success stories.


Also the Who said, after an investigation by Chinese authorities there is no clear evidence of Human to Human transmission of the novel corona virus, back in January of 2020.

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020



In January 1st the Chinese government arrested 8 people for talking about the virus. The government said it was to Crack down on rumors. But the rumors they were being punished for were that the virus existed and that it can infect people.


In January 14 Media that reported the cases in Wuhan were arrested and had their cameras searched for any information about the disease.


Chinese Gov. were clearly trying to cover it up.


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## SG854 (May 30, 2021)

They even got a Dr. to sign a letter to admit rumor mongering about the virus. Lots of censorship in China.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/02/asia/china-wuhan-covid-truthtellers-intl-hnk-dst/


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Chinese Gov. were clearly trying to cover it up.


What do people do if they think they live in the proximity of a deadly new virus? They move out, spreading it. The Chinese government wanted to contain the spread while working on the problem. There is elitism and China and Western countries (like Fauci telling the US population that masks do not work so that people do not horde them).


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## SG854 (May 30, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What do people do if they think they live in the proximity of a deadly new virus? They move out, spreading it. The Chinese government wanted to contain the spread while working on the problem.


That plan failed


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## Lacius (May 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> You are right about the cover up
> 
> It was weird that for 1 yr the WHO wasn't allowed in the Wuhan labs to investigate anything.
> 
> ...


I am not convinced there was a coverup, but it is definitely a possibility. Regardless, the virus was likely a natural occurrence.


----------



## SG854 (May 30, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> What do people do if they think they live in the proximity of a deadly new virus? They move out, spreading it. The Chinese government wanted to contain the spread while working on the problem. There is elitism and China and Western countries (like Fauci telling the US population that masks do not work so that people do not horde them).


Stopping the spread? While having a Banquet of over 100,000 people, where they all ate from the same dishes, 3 miles from where the virus was confirmed to come from, in January 18 2020. This banquet was held 2 days after 49 cases have been made public. Also days after, since Jan 1st, Chinse Gov. had been shutting people down from spreading *rumors* about a new pneumonia virus.

Good job China

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...s-over-response-to-viral-outbreak-11579825832


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 30, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Stopping the spread? While having a Banquet of over 100,000 people, where they all ate from the same dishes, 3 miles from where the virus was confirmed to come from, in January 18 2020. This banquet was held 2 days after 49 cases have been made public. Also days after, since Jan 1st, Chinse Gov. had been shutting people down from spreading *rumors* about a new pneumonia virus.
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...s-over-response-to-viral-outbreak-11579825832


I cannot verify the claim about the banquet (100k people eating from the same dishes seems like a new level of cooking mastery), however, in January they did not know for sure how the virus spreads (human to human, airborne) and how deadly it is (turns out not as deadly).
Cancelling the banquet would have made sense if they had found a good excuse (otherwise: panic).

In the end China has done much more to stop the spread within their country (harsh lockdowns) and abroad (vaccines) than any other country in the world.


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## SG854 (May 30, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I cannot verify the claim about the banquet (100k people eating from the same dishes seems like a new level of cooking mastery), however, in January they did not know for sure how the virus spreads (human to human, airborne) and how deadly it is (turns out not as deadly).
> Cancelling the banquet would have made sense if they had found a good excuse (otherwise: panic).
> 
> In the end China has done much more to stop the spread within their country (harsh lockdowns) and abroad (vaccines) than any other country in the world.


It's right there in the WSJ article. More then 10k families. About 100k people. Sharing dishes.

Then they had a New Year celebration on January 21st where many people fell ill.

Nice job again for stopping the spread.


They didn't quarantine the city till January 23 where no one was allowed to leave, but 5 million people had already left. Wuhan airport closed on the same day. Before that if they showed no symptoms they were allowed to leave. Even after scientist have been saying they can still spread it asymptomatic. Only just the Wuhan airport was shut down. But all other airports and flights were still active.

Nice job again at containing the virus


And they continued to arrest people on Jan 29 for speaking out about the corona virus.



Also the numbers China was reporting about the number of infected people, how it was lower then expected, the Wuhan hospitals were well equipped to handle those numbers. So why rush to build new hospitals if the numbers were really what they were citing? China got praise for reacting to the virus so quickly. Why rush to build these hospitals if it wasn't really that bad in China?


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## SG854 (May 30, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> I cannot verify the claim about the banquet (100k people eating from the same dishes seems like a new level of cooking mastery), however, in January they did not know for sure how the virus spreads (human to human, airborne) and how deadly it is (turns out not as deadly).
> Cancelling the banquet would have made sense if they had found a good excuse (otherwise: panic).
> 
> In the end China has done much more to stop the spread within their country (harsh lockdowns) and abroad (vaccines) than any other country in the world.


You were saying they were hiding the virus because they didn't want people to panic leave and spread it, but people had already left and people freely had celebrations without any knowledge about the existence of the virus. The plan to hide the virus to not cause panic backfired.


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## notimp (May 30, 2021)

Lacius said:


> None of this is remotely true. There's no evidence the virus was human-created, and there is genetic evidence the virus began in bats.


What we dont have is the entire chain of development. So we dont have the specific mutation where it jumped to humans, so you have the part "originated in an animal probably bats" (because you see the "mutation history" specific to their (or a very similar hosts) bodies in the "code"), and then you have a fully formed version with mutations that was able to jump over to humans. You also have a few maybe intermediates, but it isnt a complete chain of evidence. So what we are missing is either the variant that developed in an intermediary host, or early versions that developed in humans (not in Wuhan, we didnt find them there), for full chain of evidence.

Also, some people are speculating, that part of the mutations found in the Wuhan version, were similar to mutations seen in other viruses in ways that would point to engineering, but there is no clear evidence for that. Just a possibility.

But the possibility is there. What the US now is doing is promoting "we need full openness and access for a commission to look into that" - on part of the health ministry, and the chinese are basically saying "f*ck off" you are trying to spin this into "china poisoned the world, stay put". (Essentially arguing "In the (likely) case we dont find full proof, you are trying to make the world think, its our doing - and make that story stick.")

Usually, even if we take the theory, that it was lab created in China, chinese government would have destroyed any chain of evidence, if there ever was any regardless of intentional spread (probably not - no one is really suggesting intentional spread, even in the lab theories - despite our good friends the conspiracy prone  ), they would have destroyed it by now - because, well its a public relations nightmare, and security services would have to, really...

Which makes the public insisting of the US health department and US friendly commentators in my country so "odd". Because no one has actual interest in "full transparancy" here - in case there was a lab component. (You dont need that information to prevent future cases, f.e. - its just a 'nice to have', and if there was an accident, the chinese government probably already has that information). Everyone - even the US would have to acknowledge that, so why now there is this naive "we need full clarification, and access for scientific research and..." argument as part of the public relations game thrown out by US officials, is at least curious. 

Also we know all of that - for months. I made a posting in here - about there being gaps in the genome development chain more than half a year ago, I think, when DW (the german foreign news outlet, partly state financed) interviewed a research scientist looking into this matter, who said about as much.

And now the "anecdotal story" of "some scientists became sick around that date", is produced as a gapfiller for the theory. But thats not evidence, thats "human interest". Thats story creation, more so than "we've found something". Might be a true story - or not. Chances are, that we'll never find out.

But for some reason, the US government is now publically arguing, that we ought to.

Thats more or less the story, as I understand it. 

(There also are stories about the original reporting maybe not having been "up to snuff" - so when press first reported about the definite bat origin of the virus, they maybe having relied too much on a public version the chinese government was producing. But then its _very_ hard to find anything else, especially in China (or the WHO..  (There are now more critical voices in the WHO as well, but only after the US stepped forward, it seems...  )..  ) And no, WHO isnt bad people, they have to act submissively by design (to get access to countries, to be able to operate there), and yes, they are very much still needed (as a standing communication and action network), so whatever problems you have with them, you better tackle them through internal reform.)


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## BitMasterPlus (Jun 1, 2021)

Don't let the Chinese Communist Party see this thread, lest you want some Chinese assassins to visit you at night.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 1, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> As for me being vaccinated I'm actually trans-vax. I didn't get the COVID-19 vaccination, but I identify that I did. Please respect my pronouns!


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## 1B51004 (Jun 1, 2021)

im pretty sure not many people are surprised by this.


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 2, 2021)

leon315 said:


> but how american intelligence access chinese hospital records?
> didn't Chinese media said same thing about USA claiming that during pre-pandemic era 2019-2020, there were 10s of thousands of american died at "mysterious flu" with pneumia?



The Chinese media for a certain amount of time was telling their citizens that the US Army brought COVID-19 into Wuhan and that the USA was responsible for the outbreak. I'm not sure if they've kept that same narrative up to today as I haven't read anything about it since they originally aired the nonsense in China around the start of the pandemic.


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## WG481 (Jun 3, 2021)

To sum up everything

COVID is a virus that exists
People need to get the vaccine against it (I don't care what your argument is. Unless it's an allergy or some other thing specified by your legal medical records, it's disproven)
Nobody knows where it came from

and I really need a burrito.


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## Valwinz (Jun 3, 2021)

Is clear now that we have seen the Fauci emails that the virus really did came from a lab, that Trump was right, and that China should pay to every nation it affected


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## Lacius (Jun 3, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Is clear now that we have seen the Fauci emails that the virus really did came from a lab, that Trump was right, and that China should pay to every nation it affected



The emails don't do anything to suggest that COVID-19 was lab-created.
The pandemic may have started with the lab after it isolated a naturally occurring virus. In other words, starting with a lab leak doesn't necessarily mean it was created in a lab. It's also possible COVID-19 didn't start in a lab. You don't know where it started, neither do I, and neither does Fauci. The genetic evidence suggests it was a naturally occurring virus that indirectly made its way from bats to humans.
The origins of the virus are irrelevant to Trump's utter mishandling of the pandemic, and he deserves no praise regardless of what we discover about the virus' origins.


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## WG481 (Jun 3, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Is clear now that we have seen the Fauci emails that the virus really did came from a lab, that Trump was right, and that China should pay to every nation it affected


I have yet to see a day where Trump is right.
From a completely objective view, Biden has done infinitely more than Trump has to prevent COVID from spreading. Trump deserves no praise, as he didn't help in that area.


----------



## notimp (Jun 4, 2021)

notimp said:


> What we dont have is the entire chain of development. So we dont have the specific mutation where it jumped to humans, so you have the part "originated in an animal probably bats" (because you see the "mutation history" specific to their (or a very similar hosts) bodies in the "code"), and then you have a fully formed version with mutations that was able to jump over to humans. You also have a few maybe intermediates, but it isnt a complete chain of evidence. So what we are missing is either the variant that developed in an intermediary host, or early versions that developed in humans (not in Wuhan, we didnt find them there), for full chain of evidence.
> 
> Also, some people are speculating, that part of the mutations found in the Wuhan version, were similar to mutations seen in other viruses in ways that would point to engineering, but there is no clear evidence for that. Just a possibility.
> 
> ...


Here are some statements in their original quote form:


Havent seen the "conclusion" of the video yet (probably pro US..  ), but just so you get some of the material that this discussion is based on.

edit: (On the "You cant control a coronavirus" aspect - ehm, this guy needs to read more conspiracy theories..  China just raised their max child quota to three...  ) Not saying anything here - just pointing out a pretty obvious logic flaw. And no - I'm not explaining that one.  )

edit2: Uhhh, they end on Facebook changing their policy on banning people for Covid related opinions and on actual news censorship that resulted because of it. How subversive...


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 4, 2021)

WG481 said:


> I have yet to see a day where Trump is right.
> From a completely objective view, Biden has done infinitely more than Trump has to prevent COVID from spreading. Trump deserves no praise, as he didn't help in that area.



Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.

While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.

Trump's actions saved millions of lives, but yeah, he's racist for closing the borders.

The entire reason Biden has a vaccine to distribute is because of Trump's actions. 

Last thing, right before Trump lost the 2020 election his administration was acting on a plan to vaccinate the population with the vaccines he helped fast track and that "plan" is what Biden used when he took office.

Oh, but, like, Orange Man Bad, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhh (sheep)


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## Lacius (Jun 4, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.
> 
> While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.
> 
> ...


The former president effectively dismantled the pandemic response team before COVID-19 hit, he downplayed the pandemic, he chastised mask wearing, he lied about the virus, he held super spreader events, he had no vaccine distribution plan, and he downplayed the need for people to be vaccinated. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of the disastrous pandemic response from the former administration.

If you look in the 2020 election thread, you can find more specific bullet pointed lists from me regarding the former administration's COVID-19 failings. It is no surprise he lost that election.


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## WG481 (Jun 4, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.
> 
> While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.
> 
> ...


H*ll yeah we were calling him a racist. *But that's not because of the border.*

If Trump _really_ wanted to be effective, he would've pulled a New Zealand and told everyone (I'm paraphrasing of course): "Y'all get in yo houses and don't come out for two weeks. We'll pay your salary too."

Meanwhile Biden, who is barely in his first year, has signed tons of COVID bills, undoing Trump's actions and actually making it an easier place to live.

Wanna know how I know? D.C. just had its mask mandate removed because of lesser COVID Risk. Wanna know an extreme risk zone during Trumperica? D.C.

Where I live, cases have only gone down due to Governor mandates and, guess who, Joe f**king Biden.

Do you really want to live in a place where you have to wear a mask just to say "g'day neighbor"?

Biden formulated his own plan. I know that because he presented it across the country to tell people that he would decrease COVID risks, and he has.

*Long story short:*

 - Get your vaccine. *I don't care** if you "identify as having it." That's not something you can identify without legal proof. Seriously. Being gay doesn't endanger the lives of others, but not getting vaccinated does.
 - COVID isn't the Kung Flu or other racist jokes. Read about why the Spanish Flu is called the Spanish Flu and you'll see something new.
 - A fourteen year old just presented more valid arguments than brain cells in your head.
 - Wear a mask. The anxiety you suffer is little pain for saving the lives of people.
 - I will dispute any statement.

*I literally have hit negative caring. Someone said it wasn't possible to care any less, but I just did.


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 4, 2021)

WG481 said:


> H*ll yeah we were calling him a racist. *But that's not because of the border.*
> 
> If Trump _really_ wanted to be effective, he would've pulled a New Zealand and told everyone (I'm paraphrasing of course): "Y'all get in yo houses and don't come out for two weeks. We'll pay your salary too."
> 
> ...



Ignoring your long story short Biden has also done a lot to help combat COVID-19. I wasn't trying to diminish Biden's role in all of this, but to accuse Trump of "doing nothing" is unrealistic and is not what happened. By the way he also was labeled "racist" by the Left for _specifically _closing the borders to combat the influx of people sick with COVID-19. You know who also kept the borders closed? Biden.


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## Lacius (Jun 5, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> but to accuse Trump of "doing nothing" is unrealistic and is not what happened.


"Nothing" might have been preferable to what the former president actually did.


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## BitMasterPlus (Jun 5, 2021)

I've been debating for a few days on whether or not it would be worth the time and effort on making posts to some of these subjects showing the other side, but if some people are just going to ignore evidence that's right in your face (like Fauci sending money to the Wuhan lab where it's very possible that's where the virus originated) and continue to just shift blame on others for the wrong reasons, then I see no point in even trying to debate.

I've had my two shots, and it was my choice to take them or not. I didn't have to if I didn't want to. Want proof? Sure thing, you don't have to look to far, just check inside your ass.


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## plasturion (Jun 5, 2021)

That's interesting quote about covid feature: “The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”
https://nypost.com/2021/05/29/explosive-study-claims-to-prove-chinese-scientists-created-covid/


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Jun 5, 2021)

WG481 said:


> - Get your vaccine. *I don't care** if you "identify as having it." That's not something you can identify without legal proof. Seriously. Being gay doesn't endanger the lives of others, but not getting vaccinated does.


Being a man in a woman´s bathroom or boxing ring endangers the lives of women though.
If vaccines had no side effects at all, I´d argue there is an obligation to take it.
But that´s not reality. Everyone can either choose the potential danger of the virus or the vaccines. Once you are vaccinated you shouldn´t be afraid of the virus anymore. How can you then still insist that others protect you by also taking it?


----------



## SG854 (Jun 5, 2021)

plasturion said:


> That's interesting quote about covid feature: “The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”
> https://nypost.com/2021/05/29/explosive-study-claims-to-prove-chinese-scientists-created-covid/


Wasn't the gain of function research to study the virus and how it affects humans and to understand it to better to create better vaccines to fight the virus?


If they did actually try to make it seem like it came naturally from nature, then it could indicate malicious intent. But it's one article so I'm not jumping to conclusions till more articles come out that can reveal the truth better.


----------



## Lacius (Jun 5, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Being a man in a woman´s bathroom or boxing ring endangers the lives of women though.



Trans women are women.
There is no evidence of danger to cis women from trans women using a women's restroom.
In fact, the danger appears to come from forcing trans people to use the restroom that doesn't comport with their gender identity (i.e. forcing a trans woman to go into a men's restroom or forcing a trans man to go into a women's restroom).



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If vaccines had no side effects at all, I´d argue there is an obligation to take it.



There is a moral imperative to get vaccinated, regardless of the known side effects.
Even if we look at it from a selfish perspective, the smart thing to do is to get vaccinated. If a person can medically get vaccinated, then there's no argument to not getting vaccinated that isn't anti-science, anti-vaccination, anti-people, and anti-self.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> But that´s not reality. Everyone can either choose the potential danger of the virus or the vaccines.



The vaccines have been demonstrated to be safe and effective.
The risks of getting and/or spreading COVID-19 far outweigh the risks associated with vaccination.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Once you are vaccinated you shouldn´t be afraid of the virus anymore.


From a selfish perspective, you are right. If you are fully vaccinated, you shouldn't really be afraid of the virus anymore, and you can/should return to relative normalcy. It's all the more reason to get vaccinated.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> How can you then still insist that others protect you by also taking it?



The vaccine is not 100% effective.
If we say the Pfizer vaccine is 90% effective, for example, then you still want as many people around you vaccinated as possible. The more people who are vaccinated, the less likely any individual person is to contract COVID-19. You want as many "dead-ends" for the virus as possible so it doesn't spread.
There are people who cannot get vaccinated, which makes it even more important for everyone around them to get vaccinated.
Herd immunity for COVID-19 is approximately 70-80% of the population resistant to the disease.



BitMasterPlus said:


> but if some people are just going to ignore evidence that's right in your face (like Fauci sending money to the Wuhan lab where it's very possible that's where the virus originated) and continue to just shift blame on others for the wrong reasons, then I see no point in even trying to debate.


Suggesting that funding for science in 2002 is somehow evidence of a conspiracy involving Fauci somehow participating in the creation of COVID-19 is nonsensical and embarrassing.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 5, 2021)

It came from the WEF ,  ALL UN member states governments signed on to the release of COVID.
If there is anyone here  who thinks that event 201 was just  a mere coincidence  I have some ocean  front property to sell you .... IN NEBRASKA

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

Also imagine actually  being retarded enough to let the same  exact people  who conspired to release  a gain of function airborne pathogen bioweapon on you inject something into your arm , wew lad


----------



## Lacius (Jun 5, 2021)

weatMod said:


> It came from the WEF ,  ALL UN member states governments signed on to the release of COVID.
> If there is anyone here  who thinks that event 201 was just  a mere coincidence  I have some ocean  front property to sell you .... IN NEBRASKA


There is no evidence whatsoever that any government "signed on" to the release of COVID-19.

Event 201, a pandemic exercise for pandemic preparedness that occurred in 2019, is not evidence that there was some secret knowledge of COVID-19 ahead of time. Sciences have been shouting from the figurative mountaintops for at least a decade that pandemics, particularly those caused by coronaviruses, were a real threat and that we needed to be prepared. The COVID-19 pandemic only shows that they were right.

If scientists warn of a probable bridge collapse and then a bridge collapses, that doesn't mean anybody had advanced knowledge of the bridge collapse or "signed on" to it. It means people need to have more confidence in the scientific method and what scientists have to say.

This kind of conspiratorial thinking is as dangerous as it is absurd. If anyone in this thread were to be gullible enough to buy ocean-front property in Nebraska, it appears it would be you.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 5, 2021)

Remember when the exact same people were calling scientists like  Dr. Luc Montagnier , the famous French virologist and Nobel laureate who won the Nobel prize in physiology and medicine in 2008  for discovering the AIDS virus, HIV a "conspiracy theorist" when he was  saying at the very beginning of the plandemic that SARS COV 2 was made in a lab and that the virus has HIV insertions something that is now beginning to be accepted as fact after they banned everyone from social media who suggested such a thing. ( looks like they set up this narrative early on and are now coming back to  it  but have spun it with lies to try and  blame it on CHYNUH to  promote a new phony cold war)
Funny  how they only want you "trust the science" they select,  usually the "science" that is being conducted by the people with a massive conflict of interest who stand to make billions but then  not tell you to  ignore all the rest  if it  but go about   censoring people.
like the Science from India's institute of technology who also found  HIV insertions  in the virus and who also said  there is no way that it could be a naturally occurring virus.

As for event 201 ,  it was suppose to be a naturally occurring virus in the model , but COVID 19 is NOT a naturally occurring   virus  it is a lab made  bioweapon with gain of function , the same people behind even 201 are the same people trying to  ban and censor  anyone who suggests that it is a lab engineered virus , they even go  through it very extensively  in the  event 201 exercise , if you are smart enough to read between  the lines essentially  what they are saying tin that part  of the exercise is that  we may have to go as far as shutting down  parts of the internet if the people  start getting wise to our criminal activity

You want me to actually believe that people who had a massive  incentive like J&J execs who took part in  event 201
 are just innocent and that is  just  a huge coincidence  that a virus "escapes" from a lab literally month  later after they do this exercise predicting a once in a  century  pandemic

and who  also have ties to labs who were working on bat corona virus gain of function research
and   who are conducting the exercise for the WEF who has been  talking about a "GREAT RESET" and how they want  to   some catalyst event to shut down the world economy to  accomplish said reset so that they can implement some kind of global technocratic communism   "you'll own nothing and be happy" , "you will live in the tube and eat the bugs and you will be happy"

The same WEF who more than a year ago were  "predicting"  massive cyber attacks before all the currently occurring ransom ware and cyber attacks that are now working to  shut down fosil fuels and meat industries  after they have been putting out all kinds of propaganda about how we need to not eat any  meat and how we need  to eat bugs instead
and how we need to be "sustainable" and not consume anything

Funny how these mega rich crapitalists are pushing communism on the rest of us
like Elon Mush  brain
Gee I wonder where this commie gold digging whore  baby momma of  his gets her ideas from ?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/ente...tificial-intelligence-tiktok-rant/7532989002/

oh and if anyone actually believes that Elon is the "richest man  in the world" I just want to  remind you that the  ocean from property in Nebraska is still up for sale.

"Always " trust the  "science" " , unless we disagree with the science , then it's  not science it's a " conspiracy theory " "

LOL these people


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 6, 2021)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> If vaccines had no side effects at all, I´d argue there is an obligation to take it. But that´s not reality. Everyone can either choose the potential danger of the virus or the vaccines. Once you are vaccinated you shouldn´t be afraid of the virus anymore. How can you then still insist that others protect you by also taking it?



What others do with their own body or what they put into their body is none of my business. I've actually asked a few people if they take it up the ass in response to them asking me if I've been vaccinated. That shit is my personal business and none of theirs. Vaccines, just like water, can have side effects and sometimes those side effects are deadly. That's nothing new. You're wrong about being afraid though. If you were afraid of COVID-19 and think the vaccine protects you 100% you're wrong and I guess should still be scared because you still have a chance to catch it (even though you're vaccinated because the vaccines aren't fool proof). Being afraid of a virus with a 99.8% survival rate is sorta wussy shit though.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 7, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Liberal left


This right here proves that you shouldn't be taken seriously. Liberalism isn't part of the Left, it's a Center to Center-right ideology often agreeing more with practices on the Right such as Capitalism and borrowing talking points from the Left and making them aligned with the center, such as universal healthcare. As for the rest of your post


JonhathonBaxster said:


> Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.
> 
> While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.
> 
> ...


Sources, please provide actual sources.


----------



## WG481 (Jun 7, 2021)

weatMod said:


> Remember when the exact same people were calling scientists like  Dr. Luc Montagnier , the famous French virologist and Nobel laureate who won the Nobel prize in physiology and medicine in 2008  for discovering the AIDS virus, HIV a "conspiracy theorist" when he was  saying at the very beginning of the plandemic that SARS COV 2 was made in a lab and that the virus has HIV insertions something that is now beginning to be accepted as fact after they banned everyone from social media who suggested such a thing. ( looks like they set up this narrative early on and are now coming back to  it  but have spun it with lies to try and  blame it on CHYNUH to  promote a new phony cold war)
> Funny  how they only want you "trust the science" they select,  usually the "science" that is being conducted by the people with a massive conflict of interest who stand to make billions but then  not tell you to  ignore all the rest  if it  but go about   censoring people.
> like the Science from India's institute of technology who also found  HIV insertions  in the virus and who also said  there is no way that it could be a naturally occurring virus.
> 
> ...





Okay, you know what, I've met some dumb people in my lifetime. Some so stupid they could barely comprehend a BOB book.

But you my friend, not only take the cake, but the souffle,


weatMod said:


> Remember when the exact same people were calling scientists like  Dr. Luc Montagnier , the famous French virologist and Nobel laureate who won the Nobel prize in physiology and medicine in 2008  for discovering the AIDS virus, HIV a "conspiracy theorist" when he was  saying at the very beginning of the plandemic that SARS COV 2 was made in a lab and that the virus has HIV insertions something that is now beginning to be accepted as fact after they banned everyone from social media who suggested such a thing. ( looks like they set up this narrative early on and are now coming back to  it  but have spun it with lies to try and  blame it on CHYNUH to  promote a new phony cold war)
> Funny  how they only want you "trust the science" they select,  usually the "science" that is being conducted by the people with a massive conflict of interest who stand to make billions but then  not tell you to  ignore all the rest  if it  but go about   censoring people.
> like the Science from India's institute of technology who also found  HIV insertions  in the virus and who also said  there is no way that it could be a naturally occurring virus.
> 
> ...


oh gosh no
please
Don't bring that up in here.



Conspiracy theories need evidence to be backed up.
I *will never care* about a conspiracy theory unless you can defend it with more sources than a *Doctoral Thesis.*
This, everything in this quote, is frankly B.S.

Viruses are naturally occurring, and humans have genome editing. That doesn't support that COVID-19 was man-made. There are thousands of naturally-occurring Coronavirus-type diseases that come from everywhere. There's an even stronger possibility it was created by God.

Communism eh? You a rich guy? You own guns?

I'm middle class in a city where property is valued too high. My family is overworked, and we still barely receive a living wage while fat cats who push anti-socialism and anti-communism are making fools of themselves when they could single-handedly stop world hunger. May heaven itself forbid that you are poor. There's virtually no chance of a homeless person becoming a rich person or someone with enough money to support a family because of how little the rich care.

I support socialism fully. A reformed socialist society could better America faster than "trickle-down economics" (TDE)

Name *one thing* good that came out of TDE for the poor and middle-class.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 7, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Sources, please provide actual sources.



M sources are me, myself and I watching what happened since Nov 2019 when inklings of the virus originating in Wuhan came to fruition. I can't help if you haven't been paying attention since the start nor am inclined to provide links. I'm sure if you want to verify my claims you're able bodied enough to work a search engine.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 7, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> M sources are me, myself and I watching what happened since Nov 2019 when inklings of the virus originating in Wuhan came to fruition. I can't help if you haven't been paying attention since the start nor am inclined to provide links. I'm sure if you want to verify my claims you're able bodied enough to work a search engine.


You aren't a reliable source, I asked for sources for your claims not for you to shift the burden onto me. You are the one who needs to back up your claims and saying you are the source isn't backing up your claims, telling me to use a search engine isn't backing them up either.


----------



## Lacius (Jun 7, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> M sources are me, myself and I watching what happened since Nov 2019 when inklings of the virus originating in Wuhan came to fruition. I can't help if you haven't been paying attention since the start nor am inclined to provide links. I'm sure if you want to verify my claims you're able bodied enough to work a search engine.


If you can't provide good evidence for a claim, you shouldn't believe that claim.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 7, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> You aren't a reliable source, I asked for sources for your claims not for you to shift the burden onto me. You are the one who needs to back up your claims and saying you are the source isn't backing up your claims, telling me to use a search engine isn't backing them up either.



I don't need to backup anything. I've been paying close attention to what Trump and Biden's administrations have been doing to combat the virus. I would suggest searching for "covid-19 timeline". I also would suggest using the term "Wuhan coronavirus" in your search due to the fact the main stream media was calling it by that name for months before they switched to calling it COVID-19. I am not lying, but I really don't care if you believe me or not. I know what happened and that's good enough for me as your simple questioning of the factual nature of my claims doesn't prove my claims to be invalid.


----------



## SG854 (Jun 7, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I don't need to backup anything. I've been paying close attention to what Trump and Biden's administrations have been doing to combat the virus. I would suggest searching for "covid-19 timeline". I also would suggest using the term "Wuhan coronavirus" in your search due to the fact the main stream media was calling it by that name for months before they switched to calling it COVID-19. I am not lying, but I really don't care if you believe me or not. I know what happened and that's good enough for me as your simple questioning of the factual nature of my claims doesn't prove my claims to be invalid.


Good enough for you but not good enough for him. Your are debating so you need to provide sources. If you don't then what's the point of debating?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



JonhathonBaxster said:


> I don't need to backup anything. I've been paying close attention to what Trump and Biden's administrations have been doing to combat the virus. I would suggest searching for "covid-19 timeline". I also would suggest using the term "Wuhan coronavirus" in your search due to the fact the main stream media was calling it by that name for months before they switched to calling it COVID-19. I am not lying, but I really don't care if you believe me or not. I know what happened and that's good enough for me as your simple questioning of the factual nature of my claims doesn't prove my claims to be invalid.


I spoke to Aliens from Outer Space & fought against the Lockness Monster. And saw a real live half human half fly like creature.

Source: Me



Scientific paper and research concluded


----------



## Seliph (Jun 7, 2021)

Strong possibility of me doing your mom


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 7, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Good enough for you but not good enough for him. Your are debating so you need to provide sources. If you don't then what's the point of debating?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



My claims aren't up for debate. They are facts and part of history now. Go educate yourself or stay stupid. Either way I don't care to play your little games.

You know, because using the terms I said to search with pull up no valid results. There's hundreds of various timelines like this one out there.

https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Timeline/

God, you people are really dumb if you think you can invalidate history.

EDIT: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What in the Earth could this be? It must be some sort of black magic ....


----------



## SG854 (Jun 7, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> My claims aren't up for debate. They are facts and part of history now. Go educate yourself or stay stupid. Either way I don't care to play your little games.
> 
> You know, because using the terms I said to search with pull up no valid results. There's hundreds of various timelines like this one out there.
> 
> ...


Yay you posted a source. Good for you. Now was that hard?


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 7, 2021)

average sources fan vs average "idk it felt right" enjoyer


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 7, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Yay you posted a source. Good for you. Now was that hard?



Posting it was redundant as I already provided instructions on how to find sources. It just seems some people need their hand held like 5 year olds.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 7, 2021)

WG481 said:


> Okay, you know what, I've met some dumb people in my lifetime. Some so stupid they could barely comprehend a BOB book.
> 
> But you my friend, not only take the cake, but the souffle,
> 
> ...



"I'm middle class in a city where property is valued too high. My family is overworked, and we still barely receive a living wage while fat cats who push anti-socialism and anti-communism"

You really do not understand communism or political science do you
 you do know that YOU ,  "I'm MIDDLE CLASS" ARE the target class to be destroyed right
 you are the "*bourgeoisie" ,  bourgeoisie =middle class according to Marxism

you do also know that it was capitalist bankers from NY , from Wall St. who funded the revolution in Russia
source, Antony Sutton.
it IS th efat cats who are pushing FOR communism and socialism

*


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 7, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Strong possibility of me doing your mom


strong possibility of you getting 0 bitches


----------



## Seliph (Jun 7, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> strong possibility of you getting 0 bitches


Strong possibility of you being absolutely incorrect


----------



## SG854 (Jun 7, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Posting it was redundant as I already provided instructions on how to find sources. It just seems some people need their hand held like 5 year olds.


Scientist always cite their sources. Are you saying that what they do is redundant? They are very smart and know more then you. So they must know what they are doing better then you.


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 7, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Strong possibility of you being absolutely incorrect


nice argument, however i had intimate sexual relations with both of your parents last night


----------



## WG481 (Jun 7, 2021)

weatMod said:


> "I'm middle class in a city where property is valued too high. My family is overworked, and we still barely receive a living wage while fat cats who push anti-socialism and anti-communism"
> 
> You really do not understand communism or political science do you
> you do know that YOU ,  "I'm MIDDLE CLASS" ARE the target class to be destroyed right
> ...


Really?
Because last time I checked, rich people called people pushing for communism "Commie Bastards" and "Russians"
Nothing you have said over the last, i dunno, week contains factual support.


----------



## Seliph (Jun 7, 2021)

weatMod said:


> You really do not understand communism or political science do you
> you do know that YOU , "I'm MIDDLE CLASS" ARE the target class to be destroyed right
> you are the "*bourgeoisie" , bourgeoisie =middle class according to Marxism*


Please dear god do not pretend like you understand Marx lol. When talking about Marx, the term bourgeoisie is used to describe anyone who owns the means of production, or anyone who profits off of the ownership of private property in somewhat simpler terms. The French understanding of the term is used to denote middle class, but the Marxian understanding of the term bourgeoisie is different. You're confusing the colloquial French term with the Marxist term, a mistake many people tend to make.

The Marxian category of the bourgeoisie includes CEOs, Landlords, etc. not the "middle class". In Marxian analysis there is no such thing as "middle, lower, or upper" class. There is only the proletariat (worker class) and bourgeoisie (owner class). Of course there are subgroups within these groups such as the lumpenproletariat or the petit bourgeoisie. The ideas of a "middle, upper and lower" class are Capitalist distinctions based on income bracket, they don't really have much place in Marxist thought. Certainly some "middle class" people could be considered petit bourgeoise (working-class landlords and some small business owners tend to fall into this distinction) but to say that bourgeoisie = middle class is complete nonsense. In Marxism class is defined by your relationship to the means of production (whether you own it or not), not your income bracket.

If you work for a wage to survive, you are most likely considered to be a member of the proletariat. If you profit off of the labor of your workers to survive, you are most likely considered to be a member of the bourgeoisie.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 7, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Please dear god do not pretend like you understand Marx lol. When talking about Marx, the term bourgeoisie is used to describe anyone who owns the means of production, or anyone who profits off of the ownership of private property in somewhat simpler terms. The French understanding of the term is used to denote middle class, but the Marxian understanding of the term bourgeoisie is different. You're confusing the colloquial French term with the Marxist term, a mistake many people tend to make.
> 
> The Marxian category of the bourgeoisie includes CEOs, Landlords, etc. not the "middle class". In Marxian analysis there is no such thing as "middle, lower, or upper" class. There is only the proletariat (worker class) and bourgeoisie (owner class). Of course there are subgroups within these groups such as the lumpenproletariat or the petit bourgeoisie. The ideas of a "middle, upper and lower" class are Capitalist distinctions based on income bracket, they don't really have much place in Marxist thought. Certainly some "middle class" people could be considered petit bourgeoise (working-class landlords and some small business owners tend to fall into this distinction) but to say that bourgeoisie = middle class is complete nonsense. In Marxism class is defined by your relationship to the means of production (whether you own it or not), not your income bracket.
> 
> If you work for a wage to survive, you are most likely considered to be a member of the proletariat. If you profit off of the labor of your workers to survive, you are most likely considered to be a member of the bourgeoisie.


yes in theory but in the end everyone ends up in the gulag
they could not sell it  if they told the truth ,you know you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar
but in the end in USSR even the  prolls ended  up dead or in the gulag
working for the real owner class, the oligarchs
both capitalist and communist systems  end up the same way  a  futile slave class and  a  super class
communist system - Roman Arbamovitch,  capitalist system - Michael Bloomberg
as two examples
that is why Wall St. funded the revolution in  Russia
the same people  always end  up  at the top , not the proletariat or  working class, certainly not middle class
both systems  aim to eviscerate the middle class in the end.


----------



## Seliph (Jun 7, 2021)

weatMod said:


> yes in theory but in the end everyone ends up in the gulag
> they could not sell it  if they told the truth m you  know you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar
> but in the end in USSR even the  prolls ended  up dead or in the gulag
> working for the real owner class, the oligarchs
> ...


What no material analysis does to a mf


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 7, 2021)

Seliph said:


> What no material analysis does to a mf


OOOHHHHHHH


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 7, 2021)

@SG854 I do want to mention I am not a boy, unless you were referring to @Lacius
That being said,


JonhathonBaxster said:


> I don't need to backup anything.


Yes, you need to back up your claims and you are not a source. You are some random user with an inflated ego.


JonhathonBaxster said:


> I don't need to backup anything. I've been paying close attention to what Trump and Biden's administrations have been doing to combat the virus. I would suggest searching for "covid-19 timeline". I also would suggest using the term "Wuhan coronavirus" in your search due to the fact the main stream media was calling it by that name for months before they switched to calling it COVID-19. I am not lying, but I really don't care if you believe me or not. I know what happened and that's good enough for me as your simple questioning of the factual nature of my claims doesn't prove my claims to be invalid.


For the suggestion to search for" Wuhan coronavirus" the majority of the articles listed are opinion pieces with very few back sources backing them. Just because Google turns up conspiracy, doesn't mean there's any weight to it.


JonhathonBaxster said:


> My claims aren't up for debate. They are facts and part of history now. Go educate yourself or stay stupid. Either way I don't care to play your little games.
> 
> You know, because using the terms I said to search with pull up no valid results. There's hundreds of various timelines like this one out there.
> 
> ...


Oh~ a timeline, yeah that's something but still not really any kind of source to back up your claims. I am starting to think you just hoped no one would press you on your nonsense. If this has proved anything, it's that you don't actually have any real sources and you are just hoping people believe you when you are spreading conspiracy trash. It takes an incredible level of arrogance to believe that your claims can't be debated and to believe they are facts.


JonhathonBaxster said:


> Posting it was redundant as I already provided instructions on how to find sources. It just seems some people need their hand held like 5 year olds.


That's not how that works. If you tried that shit in an actual academic, you would be laughed out there.


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 7, 2021)

basically this thread


----------



## SG854 (Jun 8, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> @SG854 I do want to mention I am not a boy, unless you were referring to @Lacius
> That being said,
> 
> Yes, you need to back up your claims and you are not a source. You are some random user with an inflated ego.
> ...


I don't know which comment I made you were referring to. Most likely I was talking about Lacius.


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 8, 2021)

SG854 said:


> I don't know which comment I made you were referring to. Most likely I was talking about Lacius.


Make sense but thought I would politely say something ^-^


----------



## SG854 (Jun 8, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Make sense but thought I would politely say something ^-^


And I would politely accept your politeness 




Lilith Valentine said:


> @SG854 I do want to mention I am not a boy, unless you were referring to @Lacius
> That being said,
> 
> Yes, you need to back up your claims and you are not a source. You are some random user with an inflated ego.
> ...


Imagine a Scientifc paper where the source says look it up 

You scientist are such babies gosh. I don't need to hand hold Harvard Graduates.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> What no material analysis does to a mf


You really should have a read of Antony Sutton , "Wall St. And The Bolshevik revolution" ,and also  Anatoly Golitsyn  "New Lies For Old" and "The Perstroika Deception".
See also below,  there is a lot of truth in this like "There are no nations" (because communism has already won and communism =globalism so no nations are allowed ) but also some lies, as "there are no ideologies anymore" (paraphrasing)



Spoiler


----------



## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

weatMod said:


> you really should have a read of Antony Sutton , Wall St. and the Bolshevik revolution ,and also  Anatoly Golitsyn  New Lies For Old and The Perstroika Deception.


I'd rather not, Sutton's work is dubious at best and Golitsyn isn't much better, he claimed "the sino-soviet split was a charade to deceive the west". Which is a laughable claim and as a defector it was in his best interests to paint the union as badly as possible, not exactly an unbiased source, especially with his record. https://spartacus-educational.com/SSgolitsin.htm

Both of their collective works are just... rather silly. I mean, Sutton claims that wall street supported the Soviet Union which is an utterly hilarious and ahistorical conflict of interests. Socialism, if it were ever allowed to truly take root in the US would dissolve Wall Street where it stands. They make odd claims without backing that most historians tend not to support. I'd prefer real academics to shaky conspiracy theorists.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> I'd rather not, Sutton's work is dubious at best and Golitsyn isn't much better, he claimed "the sino-soviet split was a charade to deceive the west". Which is a laughable claim and as a defector it was in his best interests to paint the union as badly as possible, not exactly an unbiased source, especially with his record. https://spartacus-educational.com/SSgolitsin.htm
> 
> Both of their collective works are just... rather silly. They make odd claims without backing that most historians tend not to support. I'd prefer real academics to shaky conspiracy theorists.


Yes it is very possible that Golitsyn could have been a double agent  put there to deceive us further
IMO the entire cold war a  fake so there would be no need to deceive us in1989/1990
US allied with the USSR in the war , we were taken over a long time ago.
as for Sutton it is pretty well established that Trotsky was funded by Wall St.
  but yes some  of his other books are definitely dubious I will give you that.


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## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

weatMod said:


> as Sutton it is pretty well established that Trotsky was funded by Wall St.


Trotsky? Funded by Wall Street? I can't think of any reason why that would ever happen, especially since he was exiled from the Union and didn't have much real influence in Mexico where he lived after exile.

I can't find anyone but Sutton making this claim and it seems like a really weird claim to make.


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## weatMod (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Trotsky? Funded by Wall Street? I can't think of any reason why that would ever happen, especially since he was exiled from the Union and didn't have much real influence in Mexico where he lived after exile.
> 
> I can't find anyone but Sutton making this claim and it seems like a really weird claim to make.


yeah it is really hard to find sources now,  well consider who  founded owns and controls Google

" if it were ever allowed to truly take root in the US would dissolve Wall Street where it stands. They make odd claims without backing that most historians tend not to support. I'd prefer real academics to shaky conspiracy theorists."

communism not socialism  ,and no not really,   capitalists are globalists as are communists
they have no loyalty to the US

Ask yourself  this, why  did Henry Kissinger open up China to trade under Nixon when the  US was fighting war in  Vietnam to'
allegedly "stop communism from spreading in South East Asia?

You really think it is such a stretch to  believe such things when just about every Wall St. owned multinational  manufactures nearly everything in  China  ,which last I checked was Communist , and look at China itself  did it really affect capitalist businesses LOL no not even close ,  they have shopping districts that  put Rodeo Dr. to fucking shame ,Wall St. and their multinationals do more business in China than they do there, they sell more Nikes and Starbucks and Buicks in China than they do here  ,  so the idea that a full blown communist  revolution would hurt bankers or Wall St, has already been disproven.

the idea that even  full blown communism would "dissolve Wall St, where it stands" is utterly ridiculous

And they are using this  COVID lab narrative ( yes it was a biowepon made in a lab ) blaming it all on China  as more propaganda to gin  up another  cold war with China and  to   give and excuse for TPTB to move the manufacturing to  even cheaper markets,   namely  India and Veitnam , it's just going to be used as an excuse to implement  the TPP


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 8, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> @SG854 I do want to mention I am not a boy, unless you were referring to @Lacius
> That being said,
> 
> Yes, you need to back up your claims and you are not a source. You are some random user with an inflated ego.
> ...



Actually, I did forget that the Left doesn't even know the basics when it comes to the virus and its origins. I was expecting you to have paid attention starting back in November 2019 when the entire right and left establishment were covering what at the time was being referred to as the "Wuhan Virus". I forgot that when Trump first started combating the virus all the Left could do is call him racist and the sources for the things in the timeline weren't being covered by the main stream media. Sorry, I mistook you for someone that was informed already of the very basic nature and circumstances surrounding COVID-19. You all really do yourselves a disservice by only consuming the fabricated crap the left publishes. 

Last, but not least the timeline I provided is from the US Government, specifically the Department of Defense (DOD). If you have any issues with their list feel free to contact them as I wasn't involved in it's creation, but it does have at rather long time line that includes the Federal Governments response starting back in December 2019. Trump of course is responsible for not only the Federal Response, but also direct actions he took via executive privilege. If you're going to ignore the list that's your own problem because everything you first questioned me on can be found in it and by searching for "COVID-19 timeline" and reading other responses to get a better feel of the entire picture. The picture you're clearly lacking understanding of.


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## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

weatMod said:


> yeah it is really hard to find sources now,  well consider who    founded owns and controls Google
> 
> " if it were ever allowed to truly take root in the US would dissolve Wall Street where it stands. They make odd claims without backing that most historians tend not to support. I'd prefer real academics to shaky conspiracy theorists."
> 
> ...


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 8, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Scientist always cite their sources. Are you saying that what they do is redundant? They are very smart and know more then you. So they must know what they are doing better then you.



Actually, no they don't. The Liberal left was fighting tooth and nail to not require scientists to turn over their data when creating policy for the United States of America. They cited that the data contained sensitive medical data. So instead of removing private medical data covered in HIPPA from their research they said it would be too complicated so there could be no possible way to hand over the data being used in their research. Utter horse shit if you ask me. Here's the thing though. I'm not a scientist and I don't believe most of what I read online. If you people are too dumb to work a search engine that's not my fault and if you only consume main stream media that's also not my fault.


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## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

If you bonked on @JonhathonBaxster's head it'd probably sound like a hollow coconut


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## proflayton123 (Jun 8, 2021)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428442/ found in sewers before officially announce is kinda sus, though what I hate more than anything is when people say 'made in a lab' nono, not so much made, perhaps modified/enhance


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## MaxToTheMax (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> If you bonked on @JonhathonBaxster's head it'd probably sound like a hollow coconut



lol.


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> If you bonked on @JonhathonBaxster's head it'd probably sound like a hollow coconut



Choosing to ignore the source when I link to it because it collaborates what I've been saying it pretty hollow headed. The Department of Defense IS THE GOD DAMNED SOURCE. It just so happens everything I claimed Trump did to combat the virus is fucking 100% true. You can talk shit all you want, but you don't get to change what happened. You want to stay ignorant? Fine, I'll help you by putting you and Lillith on ignore so I won't happen to send some high IQ vibes your way because apparently you and her can't handle the truth.


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## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Choosing to ignore the source when I link to it because it collaborates what I've been saying it pretty hollow headed. The Department of Defense IS THE GOD DAMNED SOURCE. It just so happens everything I claimed Trump did to combat the virus is fucking 100% true. You can talk shit all you want, but you don't get to change what happened. You want to stay ignorant? Fine, I'll help you by putting you and Lillith on ignore so I won't happen to send some high IQ vibes you way because apparently you and her can't handle the truth.


bonkbonkbonkbonkbonk

Also iq is pseudoscience and not real


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## Deleted User (Jun 8, 2021)

... Is this the point where we exchange IQ Test scores and Mensa Applications, because I would not mind flexing.

Jokes aside, it's hard to keep a straight face reading the progress of this Topic.
That said, name-calling on Intellect are just petty and not so fun to follow; it's quite easy to gauge by their logic in Comments.


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## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> That said, name-calling on Intellect are just petty and not so fun to follow; it's quite easy to gauge by their logic in Comments.


This may be true but
1. No matter how many holes you poke in their logic they just pivot to some other point so reasoning with them is basically futile
2. It's funny


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## SG854 (Jun 8, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Actually, no they don't. The Liberal left was fighting tooth and nail to not require scientists to turn over their data when creating policy for the United States of America. They cited that the data contained sensitive medical data. So instead of removing private medical data covered in HIPPA from their research they said it would be too complicated so there could be no possible way to hand over the data being used in their research. Utter horse shit if you ask me. Here's the thing though. I'm not a scientist and I don't believe most of what I read online. If you people are too dumb to work a search engine that's not my fault and if you only consume main stream media that's also not my fault.


WTF are you talking about. Every single scientific paper I read has sources.




Seliph said:


> bonkbonkbonkbonkbonk
> 
> Also iq is pseudoscience and not real


Not true IQ is not pseudoscience. Intelligence tests more accurately measure Intellegence then any other psychological dimension. IQ research has more accurate results then let's say personality tests or trans research.

And the entire psychological field is based on what IQ research has established. Earlier IQ research established statistical techniques that all of psychological research today uses to test all of their hypothesis. All of Psychology uses the same methodology of testing IQ tests uses.


If you think IQ research is bullshit might as well throw away all of psychology as bullshit since they use the same testing methodology. If you think IQ data is bullshit then all of psychology data is bullshit too. Since IQ research is more accurate then any other psychological research. If IQ was pseudoscience then that must mean trans research is pseudoscience too.


These two statements can also be true at the same time. Intelligence tests do not perfectly measure intelligence. Intelligence tests more accurately measure Intellegence then any other psychological dimension. So let's say IQ can correlate to a 0.7. And personality tests correlates to a 0.5. With 1.0 being perfect correlation. In this example IQ is more accurately correlated then personality. But isn't a perfect correlation. Nothing in psychology has perfect correlation.


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## Deleted User (Jun 8, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Not true IQ is not pseudoscience. Intelligence tests more accurately measure Intellegence then any other psychological dimension. IQ research has more accurate results then let's say personality tests or trans research.
> 
> And the entire psychological field is based on what IQ research has established. Earlier IQ research established statistical techniques that all of psychological research today uses to test all of their hypothesis. All of Psychology uses the same methodology of testing IQ tests uses.


there's a lot of holes with IQ tests.

this could probably help out

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


and this... basically, the issue with IQ is that it can't really measure everything or factor everything correctly. And then you have the fact the name Intelligence Quotient is not really accurate. The person who originally created the test argued against it. 

sorry for the multiple videos, but answering through multiple points


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## Deleted User (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> so reasoning with them is basically futile



I've found that sometimes the futility itself is worth a Like.


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## SG854 (Jun 8, 2021)

Reual said:


> there's a lot of holes with IQ tests.
> 
> this could probably help out
> 
> ...



Like I said IQ tests does not have perfect correlation, like with anything else in psychology. Nothing in psychology has perfect corellation. And you don't need perfect correlation to properly research it.


And like I said all of psychology research is based on testing methodology set standardized by IQ tests. If IQ test is bullshit then all of psychology is bullshit. Trans research is bullshit.


It also mentions racial. None of the IQ test I read says that Black people have inferior IQ. Most research I read says that Black people have similar IQ to White people when controlling for factors like schooling and access to resources.



You also say that IQ tests is not accurate because it does not measure everything or factor everything correctly. Which is exactly what I said. I said that IQ tests do not have perfect correlation. And I also said everything else in psychology does not have perfect correlation either. Emotional Intellegence (EI) tests as talked about in the 3 videos you linked does not have perfect correlation. Does that mean EI is bullshit? IQ usually has much higher correlation then anything else in psychology. So that must make EI even more bullshit then IQ.


This research paper also says the early EI testing was hard to establish compared to IQ tests because it was based on subjective answers, whereas IQ testing was based on objectively right and wrong answers. And it talks about how they tried to improve EI testing over the years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546921/


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## Deleted User (Jun 8, 2021)

SG854 said:


> It also mentions racial. None of the IQ test I read says that Black people have inferior IQ. Most research I read says that Black people have similar IQ to White people when controlling for factors like schooling and access to resources.


If you watched the videos I sent (I know three 5 minute ish videos is a lot.) There is a point where this is kinda a problem. In the video they bring up specifically girls given tasks that were taboo for them that were on the IQ test, during the time when women were treated inferior. And they scored lower than their male constituents. That didn't mean they were stupid however the environment essentially unfavorably targeted them even more when IQ tests became a thing. And created a situation where it would appear that way, but probably was severely inaccurate.
How this ties to race is schooling.
So if you don't know how school funding works, it takes the general taxable income around the nearby neighborhood. Given that black families due to having already so much working against them, such as employers not hiring them due to subconscious racial bias, or conscious and just a lot of other factors that I'm probably not the best person to list all of it. Due to the fact they are much more closer to the poverty line, or below it. This means those schools that their kids likely go to, are even more underfunded, and provide even less quality education.


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## SG854 (Jun 8, 2021)

Reual said:


> If you watched the videos I sent (I know three 5 minute ish videos is a lot.) There is a point where this is kinda a problem. In the video they bring up specifically girls given tasks that were taboo for them that were on the IQ test, during the time when women were treated inferior. And they scored lower than their male constituents. That didn't mean they were stupid however the environment essentially unfavorably targeted them even more when IQ tests became a thing. And created a situation where it would appear that way, but probably was severely inaccurate.
> How this ties to race is schooling.
> So if you don't know how school funding works, it takes the general taxable income around the nearby neighborhood. Given that black families due to having already so much working against them, such as employers not hiring them due to subconscious racial bias, or conscious and just a lot of other factors that I'm probably not the best person to list all of it. Due to the fact they are much more closer to the poverty line, or below it. This means those schools that their kids likely go to, are even more underfunded, and provide even less quality education.


The videos mention EI as another factor in a person's success, they use the EI argument to weaken IQ's argument of predictive powers in a person's success. Apply your argument to EI tests. Environmental factors can affect EI. Proper education and proper socializing with people can affect EI. So since these things can change a persons EI does that mean we should ignore EI as bullshit? Just because an environment can affect a person's IQ does that mean we should ignore IQ as bullshit? None are a perfect correlation. And one of the videos do not completly dismiss IQ testing either.


Yes I'm aware how school funding works in Black neighborhoods. Which was implied when I said when controlling for factors like schooling and access to resources.


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## The Catboy (Jun 8, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Choosing to ignore the source when I link to it because it collaborates what I've been saying it pretty hollow headed. The Department of Defense IS THE GOD DAMNED SOURCE. It just so happens everything I claimed Trump did to combat the virus is fucking 100% true. You can talk shit all you want, but you don't get to change what happened. You want to stay ignorant? Fine, I'll help you by putting you and Lillith on ignore so I won't happen to send some high IQ vibes your way because apparently you and her can't handle the truth.


You are an egotistical dude who started out saying you didn’t need sources and then got the big mad when I didn’t respect the single source that even related to the comment I requested a source on. The only thing you’ve proven is just how up your own ass you are.


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## BitMasterPlus (Jun 8, 2021)

Seliph said:


> If you bonked on @JonhathonBaxster's head it'd probably sound like a hollow coconut


And if I bonked on your head my hand would get sucked in from the black hole that occupies it inside. See? We can all name call here!


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## Seliph (Jun 8, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> And if I bonked on your head my hand would get sucked in from the black hole that occupies it inside. See? We can all name call here!


That's so cool I would love to have a black hole brain. Good for sucking in knowledge


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## djpannda (Jun 8, 2021)

People have amazing things in there brain... 
lets look at mine!


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 8, 2021)

I'd like to apologize for restoring to name calling. The people talking shit about fucking my mother and the others telling me how stupid I am got to me. I know those petty actions were meant to do exactly that and I fell for it. I just forgot how much in denial Trump haters are. I've since placed to offenders on ignore. I'm not sure why their posts haven't been removed, but now I don't have to deal with the immaturity.

My source, the actual United States Government released a time line that will verify my claims about what Trump did and how fast he acted. The only thing the Department of Defenses (DOD) response doesn't mention is the fact the Liberal media called Trump racist for closing the borders to combat the virus and the entire deal about calling the virus "Wuhan virus". Information pertaining to the Liberal media calling Trump racist for responding to the virus when they ignored it can be found below.

https://www.cnsnews.com/article/was...ump-nbc-called-me-racist-banning-travel-china

Now let's all not forget that the Liberal media called COVID-19 the "Wuhan" virus when it first was discovered and this is before they started calling Trump a racist for referring to it with the same name they used.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/julio...g-covid19-the-wuhan-coronavirusvirus-n2564022

Next we have the Liberal media claiming we won't have a vaccine for a very long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Then the DOD timeline, which they, the DOD, a branch of the US Government is the source. You'll notice hundreds of actions taken by the Federal Government, which Trump is responsible for and also direct actions Trump took to combat the virus. The Liberal media claiming Trump didn't act or the people here trying to discredit my statements are wrong and this timeline proves so.

https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Timeline/

You can also find more about the governments response on the DOD website from using the link below.

https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/

If you believe any of the timeline is invalid then either check the source the DOD linked to (if any) or take it up with the DOD. Imagine thinking that you know more than the actual US Government when it comes to their own response to the virus.

The rest of my original statement is valid ...



			
				JonhathonBaxster said:
			
		

> Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.
> 
> While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.
> 
> ...



To get back on topic. Here's an interesting bit of info about the Wuhan lab theory.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...edia-theory-china-wuhan-lab-cotton-trump.html

Of course, now it's time for the Trump haters to do their thing, which is to ignore the facts and act out of emotion. I again apologize for the name calling though, but like I said, people were commenting on fucking my mother and calling me all sorts of names.


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## DoubleDate (Jun 9, 2021)

Gbatemp should have a no tolerance rules here, people insulting others and name calling shouldnt be a thing. Gbatemp used to be a place were people could talk normally and respecful to one another  nowdays people get annoyed for even a simple question about the scene like go Google it or resort to name calling. So many angry people for no reason, it cost nothing to be kind.

I do remember at the start when the virus was spreading to be called the Wuhan virus before Trump used it.


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## Deleted User (Jun 9, 2021)

There shouldn't be anyone who can deny the racial undertones used in the original reportings' name for COVID-19 from all Mainstream Media, prior to the levels of infamy by the Government.

To this day, Historians and the layman still call the last Pandemic the Spanish Flu, even without adequate proof of its origin.
Yet nobody calling it this has thought of formally demanding compensation to Spain, a far cry from the calls on China today.

That's not to say People and Bodies cannot learn from past mistakes and move forward better, which would be optimal.

My personal position on this is that I would not bring up past events unless it is forgotten by those that lament current situations or to compare with current discrepancies and point out an evident pattern.

So, to tie it back to the original Post.

What has the World actually learnt from last century's Pandemic that was based on its origin
What hasn't the World actually learnt from last century's Pandemic that was based on its virology 

Why are we playing this race-baiting game all over again this century


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## Lacius (Jun 9, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> There shouldn't be anyone who can deny the racial undertones used in the original reportings' name for COVID-19 from all Mainstream Media, prior to the levels of infamy by the Government.
> 
> To this day, Historians and the layman still call the last Pandemic the Spanish Flu, even without adequate proof of its origin.
> Yet nobody calling it this has thought of demanding compensation to Spain, a far cry from the calls on China today.
> ...


It was called the Spanish Flu in part because Spain was honest about the pandemic in their country and accurately reported their numbers (as opposed to using WWI causalities as cover), and that has the result of making Spain seem like the place that was worst hit by the pandemic.

If that's our criteria for how a disease gets its name (where it hits the hardest), then COVID-19 should be called something like the Trump Mumps.


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## BitMasterPlus (Jun 9, 2021)

Seliph said:


> That's so cool I would love to have a black hole brain. Good for sucking in knowledge


So you're cool with having a head like this?




Your words, not mine, just wanted to clarify.


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## Seliph (Jun 9, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> So you're cool with having a head like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I'm cool with a black hole head, bottomless pits don't exist. Black holes do exist and they're awesome


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## BitMasterPlus (Jun 9, 2021)

Seliph said:


> No I'm cool with a black hole head, bottomless pits don't exist. Black holes do exist and they're awesome


Black holes are probably the closest thing we'll get to a bottomless pit in reality, since we don't know where a black hole goes or if it goes anywhere. It sucks up everything, even light, never to be seen again.


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## Seliph (Jun 9, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Black holes are probably the closest thing we'll get to a bottomless pit in reality, since we don't know where a black hole goes or if it goes anywhere. It sucks up everything, even light, never to be seen again.


Sure but my point still stands


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 9, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> There shouldn't be anyone who can deny the racial undertones used in the original reportings' name for COVID-19 from all Mainstream Media, prior to the levels of infamy by the Government.
> 
> To this day, Historians and the layman still call the last Pandemic the Spanish Flu, even without adequate proof of its origin.
> Yet nobody calling it this has thought of formally demanding compensation to Spain, a far cry from the calls on China today.
> ...



I don't find any racism in calling a virus by the location it was discovered in. That's all in the lefts head. Naming something by origin, like Kentucky Fried Chicken doesn't make me racist against people in Kentucky. With that said all of the evidence points to the virus being discovered in Wuhan, China and that's the same location that it started to spread around the globe. I know the only reason people started saying calling it by origin name was racist because Trump called it by that name. That's the only reason. ie - their hatred for the man. There's nothing racist about it.


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## Deleted User (Jun 9, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I don't find any racism in calling a virus by the location it was discovered in.



We've been on this Merry-Go-Round before, so I will keep it brief and to what we can agree on.
In this case, it should be that Words do have the power to Harm.

You're not fond of people throwing words around about your parent and why should you, despite it being just words.
From that standpoint alone and without going to labelling any sequence of words racist you should be able to understand where the negative impact comes from.

I won't insult your intelligence by not acknowledging that the hypocrisy of Racist Language in the United States is that it is totally acceptable when spread by people of the target Race, which doesn't happen anywhere in South East Asia, so I hope that it is possible for us to see eye to eye on the point of Words having power to incite people to hurt others.


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## weatMod (Jun 9, 2021)

proflayton123 said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428442/ found in sewers before officially announce is kinda sus, though what I hate more than anything is when people say 'made in a lab' nono, not so much made, perhaps modified/enhance


That is just splitting hairs though .
Of course it is just assumed that they start with a base virus or multiple and then use recombinant DNA technology to modify it


BitMasterPlus said:


> So you're cool with having a head like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you posted the wrong wojack brainlett


----------



## The Catboy (Jun 9, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I'd like to apologize for restoring to name calling. The people talking shit about fucking my mother and the others telling me how stupid I am got to me. I know those petty actions were meant to do exactly that and I fell for it. I just forgot how much in denial Trump haters are. I've since placed to offenders on ignore. I'm not sure why their posts haven't been removed, but now I don't have to deal with the immaturity.
> 
> My source, the actual United States Government released a time line that will verify my claims about what Trump did and how fast he acted. The only thing the Department of Defenses (DOD) response doesn't mention is the fact the Liberal media called Trump racist for closing the borders to combat the virus and the entire deal about calling the virus "Wuhan virus". Information pertaining to the Liberal media calling Trump racist for responding to the virus when they ignored it can be found below.
> 
> ...


Was it really that hard to swallow your pride and actually post some sources?


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 9, 2021)

tomasowa said:


> We've been on this Merry-Go-Round before, so I will keep it brief and to what we can agree on.
> In this case, it should be that Words do have the power to Harm.
> 
> You're not fond of people throwing words around about your parent and why should you, despite it being just words.
> ...



Yes, words can hurt, but most people weren't using the words to hurt anyone. I suppose you could use the location of the virus in combination with hate filled speech, but just calling it by the name the entire world called it for two months is not racist. Using the name in a racist context is quite possible, but that's not what most people do when mentioning the virus came from Wuhan, China. All sorts of things have names based on real life locations so I don't see the problem by calling it the Chinese Wuhan virus. Heck, the virus could have come from over seas in another location, but it was first discovered in Wuhan, China and that's where the pandemic started.


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## wolf-snake (Jun 9, 2021)

In other words: Humans are even dumber than we all thought.


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## SG854 (Jun 9, 2021)

Snip


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## Viri (Jun 11, 2021)

Spoiler








If only they listened to him, instead of calling him a "Conspiracy theorist, racist"!


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## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2021)

let's not miss the important stuff.
Tl;dr, if you noticed there was a large media shift right after Biden took over. Suddenly the lab leak hypothesis suddenly became oddly "consented" to across the board. This is really just manufacturing consent. This is a lot like what happened with afganistan, we're suddenly really trying to pin the blame, rather than create fixes to prevent it again... such as a better pandemic response.


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## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2021)

Because really if it was made in a lab by China to harm us. 
A strong pandemic response would of STILL saved hundreds to even thousands of lives. Masks, distancing, and eventually vaccination would accomplish that.
Oh by the way... if you watched the video you would of found out the United states was also involved in the same Chinese lab... 
Though of course the United states is going to pretend that didn't happen and blame China. For those wondering why researchers mess with viruses. No it's not to create a bio weapon. It's to usually see how the virus can hop from animal to animal to create effective antibodies. Reason for the cover up at this point could be that China's government falsely believed they could contain it in time before it rapidly spread. More of a PR move, make everyone believe everything is okay so they don't seem weaker or give more ammunition to hate them, which well, obiviously backfired... just my guess. 
Though the practice was paused by Obama, since well, it creates a crap ton of controversy. And then Trump renabled the practice.


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## ChibiMofo (Jun 11, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Remember when certain people here say it was a conspiracy lol
> 
> https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1396594501293072385



And then he quotes the NY Post, one of the most discredited papers of all time. [rollseyes]

The six other major novel coronvirus outbreaks in human history we are aware of clearly did not start in a lab. Only a blithering idiot would suggest without even a slight bit of evidence that this one did. You need to get a grip on reality... and to start reading reliable sources of news. Start with the paper of record, the _New York Times_.

lol indeed


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 12, 2021)

SG854 said:


> I would call it the CCP Virus because that gov mishandled alot of things



What ticks me off about China is the fact they decided to hide the virus from the world knowing damn well it could spread and also how the CCP run media deceived the citizens of China and claimed that the US Army infected Wuhan. If it turns out the virus was man made then I think some more and extreme sanctions should befall China. As for the virus origins I'll leave that up to the experts and wait for their results.


----------



## SG854 (Jun 12, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> What ticks me off about China is the fact they decided to hide the virus from the world knowing damn well it could spread and also how the CCP run media deceived the citizens of China and claimed that the US Army infected Wuhan. If it turns out the virus was man made then I think some more and extreme sanctions should befall China. As for the virus origins I'll leave that up to the experts and wait for their results.


The CCP is to blame for alot of their problems and the Chinese citizens are just innocent victims.

They kept on trying to silence any information of covid, jailing people then spread lots of misinformation to confuse people.


----------



## SG854 (Jun 13, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> What ticks me off about China is the fact they decided to hide the virus from the world knowing damn well it could spread and also how the CCP run media deceived the citizens of China and claimed that the US Army infected Wuhan. If it turns out the virus was man made then I think some more and extreme sanctions should befall China. As for the virus origins I'll leave that up to the experts and wait for their results.


That's common for CCP to blame the U.S.


They always put out propaganda. For everything. I do not believe anything the CCP says or does.


It's just like the Uyghur situation over there. They capture them, then throw them into concentrations camps for re-education and slave labor. And force them tonwork in cotton fields.


Then the CCP puts out alot of propaganda ads targeting the U.S and foreigners trying to shift blame. And also put out misinformation campaigns trying to confuse westerners that everything is OK over there.

They like to shift blame to the U S. for alot of their own problems that was created by the CCP. And they also even put out CCP sponsored propaganda tik-tok videos and cringy propaganda rap songs to try to convince people that everything is A-OK over there,  and that they aren't forcing Uyghur into slave labor. They did the same thing with covid to confuse people on what's really going on over there. It's bad.


This CCP sponsored rap song, one of many propaganda things they put out, trying to convince people that they aren't forcing Uyghurs into slave labor.


----------



## BORTZ (Jun 13, 2021)

I remember seeing reports of burning corpses outside of Wuhan Nov '19 and remember thinking "gee that must be just another Tuesday in China, hope they get that virus under control lol"
Then more reports about cases spreading south into Mongolia and on and on... Ugh


----------



## Xzi (Jun 13, 2021)

BORTZ said:


> I remember seeing reports of burning corpses outside of Wuhan Nov '19 and remember thinking "gee that must be just another Tuesday in China, hope they get that virus under control lol"
> Then more reports about cases spreading south into Mongolia and on and on... Ugh


By the time China even knew what they were dealing with, the virus had probably already spread to a quarter of all countries.  And it certainly didn't help that they kept that information to themselves for a bit, but that still doesn't excuse the failures of other world leaders to minimize damage to their own peoples.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jun 13, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> nice argument, however i had intimate sexual relations with both of your parents last night


i have copulated with multiple potential members of your parentage between the hours of the most recent dusk and dawn; being that you are not aware of your paternal icon's identity due to your matriarch's propensity for having a societally unseemly amount of sexual encounters in rapid succession and a constant fashion
i did this for the express purpose of ensuring i correctly identified the genuine parental article's rear orifice; for i, also, am unaware of their true personage, due to the magnitude of the range of candidates


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Jun 13, 2021)

most people: i fucked your mom
fast6191:


Darth Meteos said:


> i have copulated with multiple potential members of your parentage between the hours of the most recent dusk and dawn; being that you are not aware of your paternal icon's identity due to your matriarch's propensity for having a societally unseemly amount of sexual encounters in rapid succession and a constant fashion
> i did this for the express purpose of ensuring i correctly identified the genuine parental article's rear orifice; for i, also, am unaware of their true personage, due to the magnitude of the range of candidates


----------



## weatMod (Jun 14, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> What ticks me off about China is the fact they decided to hide the virus from the world knowing damn well it could spread and also how the CCP run media deceived the citizens of China and claimed that the US Army infected Wuhan. If it turns out the virus was man made then I think some more and extreme sanctions should befall China. As for the virus origins I'll leave that up to the experts and wait for their results.


really ridiculous argument  US, Trump, and Israel knew about it just as long as the  CCP
as you can see here
https://twitter.com/hashtag/israelinnovember

 In fact all  UN member states governments knew about it because they all signed on to its release under economic agreement from the  World Economic Forum, ,World Banks and IMF
see event 201 and the great reset world economic forum.

the evidence of foreknowledge if right out in the open just like it always is

I have my own anecdotal  experience too, I have someone in my family who  was warned in October 2019
they used to work for Goldman Sachs but now work for  UBS ,  they make 7 figures
and have a place in  NY and have some extremely high profile celebrity neighbors as well as other properties

they got some kind of a tip off and were all prepped for this in October of 2019
They were already all  stocked up on TP and shelf stable food in October


----------



## tabzer (Jun 15, 2021)




----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jun 15, 2021)

Someone's gonna lose their Chinese sponsorship~


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 15, 2021)

weatMod said:


> really ridiculous argument  US, Trump, and Israel knew about it just as long as the  CCP
> as you can see here
> https://twitter.com/hashtag/israelinnovember
> 
> ...



No it's not a really ridiculous argument. What's a really ridiculous argument is believing what a bunch of random people on Twitter have to say about it. However, even if China did let a select few know about the virus back in October 2019 they *still didn't tell most of the world for a month or so*. When applied common sense would dictate that you know I wasn't talking in absolutes, and even if you're a tad bit slow my revised statement stands - China hid COVID from most of the world for over a month.


----------



## smf (Jun 15, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> China hid COVID from most of the world for over a month.



"China" didn't, the chinese government tried to keep a lid on it,

_“There was an early cover up in Wuhan, perhaps a few days to a week, before the threat was accepted. We will never know if faster action in those first days could have averted the outbreak,” said Ian Jones, professor of biomedical sciences at Reading University._

this is not something unique to the CPC, Trump tried to pretend it was just like the flu for a long time.

Three people sick in november 2019 is not something that any government would flag up to the rest of the world. The news might not even have made it to the government before the wuhan outbreak.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 16, 2021)

smf said:


> "China"



China did it just like America elected Trump.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 16, 2021)

More news relating to the Stewart video.

*Washington Post columnist knocks Jon Stewart for pushing Wuhan lab-leak theory: Celebrities aren't 'experts'*
_
'This provides an important lesson about celebrities: You shouldn’t get your political opinions from them'_

- https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-jon-stewart-wuhan-lab-leak-theory

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The World Health Organization is "highly compromised" and unfit to lead an investigation into the origins of COVID-19, according to former CDC head Robert Redfield.*

_"Clearly, they were incapable of compelling China to adhere to the treaty agreements that they have on global health, because they didn’t do that," Redfield told Fox News on Tuesday. "Clearly, they allowed China to define the group of scientists that could come and investigate. That’s not consistent with their role."

- https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/...9-investigation-according-former-cdc-director_


----------



## Seliph (Jun 16, 2021)

Seliph said:


> "The Wall Street Journal, which cited current and former US officials, reported that the intelligence gathered by “an international partner” expands on a State Department document confirming that workers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology fell ill with symptoms “consistent with both Covid-19 and common seasonal illness” in fall 2019."
> 
> Like who is this "international partner? What is this intelligence? Can we see it for ourselves? Did they literally just have the flu and the news are just making a big deal of this because it makes money to invent China drama?





Seliph said:


> I would love to know who these three people are, where they were hospitalized, how they were treated, etc but we don't know. I'd like to know who this "international partner is", how they got this information, why they're only revealing it now, and why their identity has to be secret. I'd also like to see a direct quote from this international partner. Who are these "officials" who received the intelligence? How do all of these news sites have this information? How did it get out? Why are people claiming that the workers had Covid when we have no actual evidence that they did? Why the hell is this even news? Even if this were true, what are the implications?


Just curious, do we have any answers to these questions yet or are we just assuming the lab leak is somehow credible based on the very limited information we actually have? All of this info spawned from a single news article from the Wall Street Journal, one article. If you look for info on this, it always goes back to that one article. That seems to be basically all the info we actually have on this and every article seems to just repeat the conclusions of the aforementioned article or idly speculate on things we can't actually prove. This is some incredibly goofy shit, especially since I'm seeing people uncritically support the very same corporate media they seem to want to complain about every other day.

This seems just like more hubbub about nothing designed to manufacture consent against China in order to justify whatever conflict the US government inevitably has with the CCP because the CCP is basically the only world power that threatens the US's position on the top of the capitalist totem pole.

Like I have no love whatsoever for the CCP but it is just so blatantly obvious that this is the case. Media smear campaigns like this (think about all the media hubbub in the early 2000s about Iraq WMDs that didn't even exist) are exactly the type of things that led to public support for Bush's invasion of the Middle East despite it being an objectively evil thing. Rile up the people against a foreign power that threatens the position of some rich people and once you've done it enough you suddenly have support from the majority of the (mostly) uninformed public that justifies absolutely heinous foreign policy. We did this in Iraq because rich people wanted oil and corporate control over a mostly untapped market, we're doing this again in China (now that our army is _supposed to _be leaving the middle east) because rich US corporations see Chinese capitalism as a threat to their profits and a threat to their position on top of the world.

Now do I think the US is gonna try to do a full-on "desert storm" style invasion of China? Probably not. I certainly hope not. But shit like this puts a foot in the door for public support of highly destructive and unnecessary cold war-esque conflict that will only end up hurting the citizens of both countries and serving the whims of the capitalist bourgeoise elite (which is always the goal of corporate media and the US government because both are owned by billionaires). The US army doesn't really have much going on right now, why not fire up the ol military-industrial complex by attacking China? That'd make a handy profit AND knock down a major competitor at the same time. It's a win-win situation! (for rich people)

Some vids on manufactured consent and what it means because I think it's very relevant to this topic and really any discussions about how corporate media works, the first vid is especially informative:


----------



## smf (Jun 16, 2021)

tabzer said:


> China did it just like America elected Trump.



Less than half of the american population elected Trump. "America" didn't do anything.

Reducing people to a country is a way of dehumanizing them, don't trust anyone who does that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Seliph said:


> Like I have no love whatsoever for the CCP but it is just so blatantly obvious that this is the case.



You may be right, but you may be giving them too much credit. They could just be really inept & unable to make rational assessments.

It's like when you were a kid and dropped something by accident and it broke, you didn't want to get in trouble so you tried to clean up the mess and hide the damage, then your mum finds out about it and says that because you tried to hide it that it is evidence that you purposefully broke it & she starts blaming you for anything that ever got broken.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 16, 2021)

smf said:


> Less than half of the american population elected Trump. "America" didn't do anything.
> 
> Reducing people to a country is a way of dehumanizing them, don't trust anyone who does that.



America definitely elected Trump.  It was in the news.  Are you claiming, though, that people are not responsible for their government?


----------



## smf (Jun 16, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America definitely elected Trump.  It was in the news.  Are you claiming, though, that people are not responsible for their government?



No, I'm saying that America is a land mass & doesn't vote for anyone.

The American people live in America, they vote. Not all of the American people voted in the election, less than half of them voted for Trump.

So it's wrong to say that all of the American people voted for Trump.

Lumping everyone in together and then naming them after a country is derogatory. You either know it and want to be derogatory, or you don't know it. But I'm informing you, so if you continue then I'll know you're being derogatory.

China isn't really a democracy & so no, you cannot hold all of the people who live in China responsible for the government.

I wouldn't hold all of the American population responsible for Trump either as less than half of those who voted wanted him to be president. It seems rather unfair to blame someone for Trumps disastrous policies, when they didn't want him doing the job in the first place.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 16, 2021)

smf said:


> America is a land mass



America (aka the US) is a political territory.



smf said:


> So it's wrong to say that all of the American people voted for Trump.



I don't think anyone, in the history of mankind, has said that.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jun 16, 2021)

smf said:


> No, I'm saying that America is a land mass & doesn't vote for anyone.


this argument is semantics and beneath what i've come to expect from you


----------



## smf (Jun 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> this argument is semantics and beneath what i've come to expect from you



No, it's an argument against dehumanizing people by saying they are all the same and referring to them only by the name of the country they are from.

I don't care what you expect, you've proved yourself to be rude and clueless.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 17, 2021)

smf said:


> No, it's an argument against dehumanizing people by saying they are all the same and referring to them only by the name of the country they are from.



The reference is to the country.  If I say "China" and you think "all Chinese" people, then you are the one making that cognitive bridge (leap).


----------



## smf (Jun 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> America (aka the US) is a political territory.



Right, it's a country made up of 50 states. Each states representatives aren't responsible for the actions of the other states representative or for the actions of the citizens in each state. The citizens aren't responsible for the actions of the federal government.



tabzer said:


> The reference is to the country.  If I say "China" and you think "all Chinese" people, then you are the one making that cognitive bridge (leap).



Well as China cannot be responsible as it's a country, who exactly do you hold responsible?



tabzer said:


> Are you claiming, though, that people are not responsible for their government?



You seem to be arguing against yourself now.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Well as China cannot be responsible as it's a country, who exactly do you hold responsible?



The Chinese government defines its territory as China (or at least that is how it is translated into English), so I would assume the Chinese government.  Is that racist or dehumanizing?


----------



## smf (Jun 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The Chinese government defines its territory as China (or at least that is how it is translated into English), so I would assume the Chinese government.  Is that racist or dehumanizing?



No, you can name a country. But it's just land, it doesn't do anything other than provide resources for the people who live on it.

Blaming a country is like when rather than calling someone by their name, you call them by a derogatory nick name based on their heritage.

If you have a problem with the CCP then say you have a problem with the CCP, if it's a particular company then blame the company. You can't blame a country, whether it's the land or all the people on it.

What you find is when you stop dehumanizing people it makes you more compassionate and less right wing.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 17, 2021)

ROFL. smf would call white bread racist. I wouldn't bother with him.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Are you claiming, though, that people are not responsible for their government?





smf said:


> You seem to be arguing against yourself now.



It was a genuine curiosity, not posturing or an argument. 



smf said:


> No, you can name a country.



A country is a political territory.  "Land" does not inherently convey a political statement.



smf said:


> Blaming a country is like when rather than calling someone by their name, you call them by a derogatory nick name based on their heritage.



I don't understand how you are thinking.


----------



## PiracyForTheMasses (Jun 17, 2021)

smf said:


> No, it's an argument against dehumanizing people by saying they are all the same and referring to them only by the name of the country they are from.
> 
> I don't care what you expect, you've proved yourself to be rude and clueless.


You do NOT know the definition of dehumanizing. Dehumanization has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the stupidity coming out of your mouth.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 17, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> No it's not a really ridiculous argument. What's a really ridiculous argument is believing what a bunch of random people on Twitter have to say about it. However, even if China did let a select few know about the virus back in October 2019 they *still didn't tell most of the world for a month or so*. When applied common sense would dictate that you know I wasn't talking in absolutes, and even if you're a tad bit slow my revised statement stands - China hid COVID from most of the world for over a month.


no  it is you who are slow , they hid nothing because this was planned by the WEF and nearly every government was in on the plan , see event 201


----------



## SG854 (Jun 17, 2021)

weatMod said:


> no  it is you who are slow , they hid nothing because this was planned by the WEF and nearly every government was in on the plan , see event 201


Did you read the full article from the Twitter thread you linked?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-al...disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/


It said that there was no such report that exists of them knowing about the corona virus in 2019. The article is not definitive proof that they knew the virus existed early on. It's just claims without proof.



Event 201 did not predict covid pandemic. It was just a simulation to see what a covid like pandemic would be like. It was done since there has been an uptick in sars like viruses. Which happens to coincidentally be right before covid hit.

https://fullfact.org/health/event-201-coronavirus-pandemic/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



weatMod said:


> really ridiculous argument  US, Trump, and Israel knew about it just as long as the  CCP
> as you can see here
> https://twitter.com/hashtag/israelinnovember
> 
> ...


If all the UN members knew about it then that means all these countries didn't react earlier which would mean they all have blood on there hands. They could've better handled the pandemic but didn't. They were almost as bad as Trump.



Also you timeline seems off

The who sent out this tweet in January 14 2020

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020




If they knew about the virus and it's effects back in November of 2019 why would the who sent out this tweet? Thats being pretty reckless and could've prevented many deaths if they reacted sooner. Your comment just does not make any sense.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jun 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> The reference is to the country.  If I say "China" and you think "all Chinese" people, then you are the one making that cognitive bridge (leap).


i hate it when you're right



smf said:


> No, it's an argument against dehumanizing people by saying they are all the same and referring to them only by the name of the country they are from.





Spoiler: Oh man...












tabzer said:


> China did it just like America elected Trump.


This is tabzer agreeing with the content of your post. He was affirming that:


smf said:


> "China" didn't, the chinese government tried to keep a lid on it


... is an accurate statement. Referring to the broad actions of a country on a macro scale is what tabzer is doing, but you are engaging in semantics to try and own him. You accidentally baited tabzer into saying some dumb shit right after that, (insinuating that the Chinese people are responsible for the actions of their government) but you were initially being semantic, which I called out.



smf said:


> Reducing people to a country is a way of dehumanizing them, don't trust anyone who does that.


This is what I'm talking about. When referring to the macro actions of the ruling power of a country is engaging in, it is perfectly acceptable to say "America did this," etc.
"America attacked Iraq in an illegal war," for example, is an accurate statement. Responding to that with "uh ackshually, america is a landmass," is semantic nonsense.



smf said:


> I don't care what you expect, you've proved yourself to be rude and clueless.


Calling me clueless when I stated nothing related to the subject in my message to you and, indeed, being broadly in agreement with most of what you have posted in this thread(!) is disappointing. Calling you out for making a shit argument ≠ calling you incorrect on the substantive issues.


----------



## tabzer (Jun 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> (insinuating that the Chinese people are responsible for the actions of their government)



Some people think that a country's people are responsible for its government.  I was genuinely curious and I clarified that.  It wasn't an insinuation.  I am personally uncertain.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jun 17, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Some people think that a country's people are responsible for its government.  I was genuinely curious and I clarified that.  It wasn't an insinuation.  I am personally uncertain.


thank the lord
no, mate, no, the chinese people under a dictatorship are not responsible for their government
china is a place horribly repressed by its leaders


----------



## tabzer (Jun 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> thank the lord
> no, mate, no, the chinese people under a dictatorship are not responsible for their government
> china is a place horribly repressed by its leaders



If there is a revolution, it would be because of such conviction.  I don't imagine it happening, but I do imagine people holding the sentiment.


----------



## smf (Jun 17, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> Calling me clueless when I stated nothing related to the subject in my message to you and, indeed, being broadly in agreement with most of what you have posted in this thread(!) is disappointing. Calling you out for making a shit argument ≠ calling you incorrect on the substantive issues.



Just because you broadly agree with me doesn't mean you aren't clueless.

You're suffering from black and white thinking, which is what I expect from you.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 17, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Did you read the full article from the Twitter thread you linked?
> 
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-al...disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/
> 
> ...


I don't believe it is a coincidence
I believe they do have blood on their hands
the WEF has been saying  for years leading up to COVID they want a "great reset" of the world economy something that   COVID  has help to accomplish
Bayer knew that factor 8 was infected  HIV and still sold it  to children in Europe and gave them all AIDS 
 you think people  do not do bad things , you think big pharma has any ethics?
Tuskegee, MK ultra  (dosing people with LSD without their knowledge,  

by January 14th 2020 it was all over the internet that there was a deadly epidemic in China it was not secret at all
of course China and  WHO did their part to conceal it because they wanted it to spread.
I was well aware of it   on January 14th and  I had already assumed it was everywhere I was already wearing a respirator with p100 filters by then.

I have someone in my family ,(through marriage) who works on Wall St. and who,lives in NY and CT
they worked for  GS  and now work for UBS , they make  7 figures and live in the West Village and have some very high profile neighbors ,  one was in a classic movie  about and unstable nightime livery driver
the other  is a famous fashion editor who had a movie made about her , a certain  red horned figure who wears a certain brand of high end footwear , lives nextdoor

well they got some kind of tip off back in October of 2019 that there was going to be a pandemic and were told to  prep
they were already stocked up in October with  TP ,shelf stable food ,etc.
this   was extended to their immediate family who they provided  prep items for 
this warning was not passed  to me and I didn't hear about it  until about late March when things were already  in full swing here in the US

I have not seen this person since COVID started to ask them   the details but this anecdotal story backs up  the WEF  event 201  being more than   just  a coincidence ,  people knew because this was a deliberate act


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jun 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Just because you broadly agree with me doesn't mean you aren't clueless.
> 
> You're suffering from black and white thinking, which is what I expect from you.


implicitly calling yourself clueless in one hand, refusing to take an l in the pettiest fashion possible in the other
yup, i'm done here


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 17, 2021)

weatMod said:


> I don't believe it is a coincidence
> I believe they do have blood on their hands
> the WEF has been saying  for years leading up to COVID they want a "great reset" of the world economy something that   COVID  has help to accomplish
> Bayer knew that factor 8 was infected  HIV and still sold it  to children in Europe and gave them all AIDS
> ...



Word about COVID-19 (the Chinese virus / Wuhan Coronavirus) hit the Internet early November 2019 so I find it completely feasible that some intelligent agencies were aware that there was a new coronavirus in Wuhan a few weeks prior to the news breaking. Did they think it was a global threat? I'm not sure, but that could explain a few people in those circles being warned it could possibly become a global pandemic.

I've also heard a right wing theory that the deep state (Obama's, Clinton's and Soros) had China engineer the pandemic to use as political fodder to oust Trump from office, but I give that theory as much credit as I give your Twitter sources.


----------



## weatMod (Jun 18, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Word about COVID-19 (the Chinese virus / Wuhan Coronavirus) hit the Internet early November 2019 so I find it completely feasible that some intelligent agencies were aware that there was a new coronavirus in Wuhan a few weeks prior to the news breaking. Did they think it was a global threat? I'm not sure, but that could explain a few people in those circles being warned it could possibly become a global pandemic.
> 
> I've also heard a right wing theory that the deep state (Obama's, Clinton's and Soros) had China engineer the pandemic to use as political fodder to oust Trump from office, but I give that theory as much credit as I give your Twitter sources.


the source was not twitter it was just a trending hashtag 
of course that is a ridiculous theory it has nothing to do with Trump   h was as controlled as the rest of them ,  
didn't accomplish anything he promised   except what he promised for israel wow what a shocker
didn't "lock her up" didn't "build a wall" didn't "repeal Obama care" I could go on all day
COVD was for the "great reset" to help fulfil the "sustainable  development goals" which are 
just an excuse for a totalitarian technocratic society where every single resource is metered  and   rationed 
world  communism through AI just  like  Elon Musks common  gutter snipe of a   GF/wife baby momma?
  eluded to in her tweet


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 18, 2021)

weatMod said:


> the source was not twitter it was just a trending hashtag
> of course that is a ridiculous theory it has nothing to do with Trump   h was as controlled as the rest of them ,
> didn't accomplish anything he promised   except what he promised for israel wow what a shocker
> didn't "lock her up" didn't "build a wall" didn't "repeal Obama care" I could go on all day
> ...



I wasn't trying to discuss Trump, but to be fair no President keeps all of their campaign promises.

As for the virus. Even if it was some global scheme to gain more control that's not what happened. The world governments simply flexed their muscles and that shined a light on exactly *how much control they already have*.


----------



## notimp (Jun 18, 2021)

weatMod said:


> COVD was for the "great reset" to help fulfil the "sustainable  development goals" which are
> just an excuse for a totalitarian technocratic society where every single resource is metered  and   rationed[...]


Do you see to what oversimplification leads? 

Yes "the great reset" indeed is an ad hoc program, how to get back to some form of "before crisis levels" economic activity. Yes, many people are attaching concepts like sustainability, because basically all the 'change ideology' out there wants to take part in the rebuilding efforts, and yes, partly because you cant rebuild the same as before.Yes, there are technocratic efforts for more metering, because thats always what technocrats would demand (think of any engineer, really..  ) but in terms of "everything gets rationed" - no, just one very important resource. (Driving, flying - maybe, when you can wash your clothes..  Depends... (On what trajectory people are operating on in terms of climate goals.))

So you are not wrong in the details, but probably in the overall meaning you are constructing from it. 

Because you are leaving out other details, like - Covid being counterproductive from a "everything gets rationed" stance, because it produces pushback. People become sick and tired of being locked down. All of a sudden the aspects of social compatibility of measures are much more in the forefront, than even a year ago - people simply are afraid of cutting down too harshly, because they expect larger pushback. You could argue that it needed something like Covid for people to imagine changing routines at all, but thats not a very convincing argument at face value - and if you then propose, that everything was produced by some overarching all knowing entity, that wanted to manipulate word politics -- judging from whats come from it, its still a very bad plan. 4-8 Mio people are dead, the virus is anything but under control (wait for next winter..  ), CO2 emissions werent reduced by that much, processes that lead to much larger disruption (automatisation, digitisation) were fasttracked, ...

And maybe - maybe, everyone became a little more rational in terms of demands - but even that lead more to a nationalistic trend, then to the opposite. (Not that countries would pivot to national economies again, but maybe make themselfs a little more resistent to supply chain shocks):

And now let me tell you another story.  One where political and societal changes because of climate related issues were always coming. For the US indeed its a question of "now" or "in fifty years", but for most other countries it isnt. One where technocrats would always try to get things metered more, no matter what. And one where the most impactful result of Covid maybe was to increase spending limits (national debt), in national budgets all over the world. (If Biden gets his "investment trillion", still is far from certain and probably not very likely - but in general, he will be allowed to spend more.). All the other stuff mostly is jumpchange... At least after the first year, because again Covid is far from contained.

If you are worried, that liberalism is a thing of the past - yes currently in germany there is a discussion, if the supreme court was allowed to extend the concept of liberty to further generations, and demand restrictions in behavior, based on that behavior limiting the liberty of future generations. In germany it did.

Yet at the same time, its the (globalized elite - and thereby the) liberals, that are pushing that agenda most. Arguably, because they are afraid of the pushback they see from what they have created over time, without ever looking at what it produced in their 'national economies' - partly because they start to see climate change as a risk profile in itself, that they would have to address. And yes most of the stuff thats promoted there, are empty promises, to look good in front of people. Or the bare minimum, in terms of a global minimum tax, from which Amazon then is exempt again, because it promotes itself as a growth engine, that is always investing...

If you want to go into more detail - I can show you an entry point. I'm not sure If I'll be participating this year - I'm not even sure what a 'digital ticket' costs currently - but if you want to you can at least watch and participate in one of the conferences, where those topics and the actual action plans are discussed for yourself - see what people are doing. At least in europe.

This years EFA registration started yesterday.



> This year we will be discussing with Severin Schwan, CEO of Roche, among others, how we can secure Europe as a location for the pharmaceutical industry and make it more attractive. Mairead McGuinness, the EU Commissioner for Financial Stability, and Axel Weber, Chairman of the Board of Directors of UBS, will explain how the Capital Markets Union can be used to finance European ideas for the future, but also to strengthen the innovative strength of European companies. Also in Alpbach, Tomas Pueyo, author and inventor of the “hammer and dance” concept, will discuss perspectives and opportunities post-Corona. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, Director General of the WTO, sees the energy transition as a great opportunity to make supply chains sustainable and fair. Mathias Cormann, the new OECD Secretary General, will not only discuss the political urgencies, but also the new conception of our economy. Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Vice President of the Club of Rome, will address the issue of how to use CO2 reduction as an opportunity for growth, innovation and diversity. Johan Rockström from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research will talk about the climate crisis as an opportunity in his keynote. The North Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev will meet at the EFA to discuss his country's EU accession process. The Belarusian opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya speaks to Colombe Cahen-Salvador, activist and co-founder of NOW! and Forward on political influence and participation. For years, the interdisciplinary approach to the main topics of the EFA has been cultivated in Alpbach with art and culture. With Olga Neuwirth and Anna Artaker we were able to win two exceptional artists for this year who deal with EFA topics.
> 
> The applicable legal regulations as well as our safety and prevention concept allow us to welcome up to 1,000 participants per day in Alpbach. This number of visitors also includes the actors, scholarship holders and partner delegations and corresponds to around half of the guests usually present at the EFA. One consequence of this restriction is that this year participation on site will only be possible by invitation. This will go to regular guests who have visited the EFA several times, as well as to the international clientele of the forum. Unlimited access is now available for our greatly expanded digital formats.
> 
> Secure your ticket for the digital EFA conference now and discover the detailed program at: 2021.alpbach.org


Registration Link: https://2021.alpbach.org/

And yes, some of that is BS - I can tell you now, for certain, that to listen to the opinion of the Vice President of the Club of Rome is a waste of time, or that "using CO2 reduction as an opportunity for growth" is almost entirely BS - and even in the best case, leads to selling people virtual dreams, because they wont be able to afford real ones.

But at least you are not sticking at the 'they are taking liberalism away' and it was a masterplan all along level. Because most certainly, no it wasnt - its more of a sh*t happens, then noone has a plan, but everyone has their vision kind of thing. Promise.

And if you cant, or dont want to - here you can watch this:


Mazzucato is talking again.


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## weatMod (Jun 18, 2021)

notimp said:


> Do you see to what oversimplification leads?
> 
> Yes "the great reset" indeed is an ad hoc program, how to get back to some form of "before crisis levels" economic activity. Yes, many people are attaching concepts like sustainability, because basically all the 'change ideology' out there wants to take part in the rebuilding efforts, and yes, partly because you cant rebuild the same as before.Yes, there are technocratic efforts for more metering, because thats always what technocrats would demand (think of any engineer, really..  ) but in terms of "everything gets rationed" - no, just one very important resource. (Driving, flying - maybe, when you can wash your clothes..  Depends... (On what trajectory people are operating on in terms of climate goals.))
> 
> ...




" its still a very bad plan. 4-8 Mio people are dead, the virus is anything but under control (wait for next winter..  ), CO2 emissions werent reduced by that much, processes that lead to much larger disruption (automatisation, digitisation) were fasttracked, ..."

definitely not under control but what do these elites care  when they have a  clean vaccine or an antiviral therapeutic for themselves , most definitely a lab made biological weapon that was co-developed with a treatment or  immunization
because you need that to prevent blowback or else what  good is it
most likely they are still developing  and releasing new strains and that accounts for most of the variants

" its still a very bad plan. 4-8 Mio people are dead,"

well   going by event 201 they wanted more ,  about 60 -70 million , population reduction

I don't think they care about CO2 emissions  being reduced  I think they  care about eliminating  a good chunk of the global population and gaining total control over the rest and hoarding resources for themselves .

Climate change fear didn't work but fear of imminent death from a  virus worked better

but I do not think they are done by any stretch , we will see more variants released and more contrived cyber attacks to slow thing down.

They make their plans pretty clear "You'll own nothing and  have no privacy"
you will be  a total  peasant surf  even more so than you are now 
and someone will own things, and you will be paying them rent for those things indefinitely forever.


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## notimp (Jun 18, 2021)

weatMod said:


> definitely not under control but what do these elites care when they have a clean vaccine or an antiviral therapeutic for themselves , most definitely a lab made biological weapon


Most definetly nothing.  Dont have the Interview at hand, but the position of the top virology researchers in Europe currently is, both manufactured and formed by "natural mutation" are possible, natural mutation far more likely. (Because there are no obvious pointers in the RNA that would indicate man made.)

Most of the "proof" thats used to prep up the lab theory is actually conjecture ("the wuhan lab is close" and "three people got sick I heard") - thats not what I'd call "definite proof".  So at least take the definite out. 

Why do elites care? Because they dont live in a vacuum, and they have business models going, that more often than not get disrupted, when you have to have lockdowns. Thats also part of Great Reset, rebuilding that in a way, so its less prone to fail, in such instances.

Also elites are diverse (forget the modern emotional charge of the term), so some are more connected to one kind of business models, some are more connected to others.  Some are more connected to the education sector or the 'intellectual approach', some are not. That you would learn, if you look at such a gathering more in depth, at least once.. 

All in all, most are usually interested in keeping a status quo, and changing remarkably little, because it benefits their bottom line. They do push societal change, when they see no way out of it, and dont want to be the only ones that are presented a bill for past actions.. 

Thats also a simple way to explain, why inflation should not be skyrocketing - even though vast sums of money are printed currently. People with money have little interest to see the system collapse - yet they have done very little for innovation abroad (they have mostly helped other countries to 'catch up' and reaped the benefits of the process) and domestically - so now, when the system has almost no growth perspectives left, they are happy to let the state pay - and will not bet against the state, in that process. So preassures on the state to pay back what it owes are lessened. And the investments accumulate at the top, or go into innovation building anyhow (where they might fizzle into lost spending anyhow - but no one cares, because first its state expenditure, and the ones that are working, are needed currently). So its not that everyone gets more money, because their services are in more demand, or they have better growth markets -- therefore likely no hyper inflation - even if national debt gets expanded.

If anything, we currently are in "please dont rebell!" mode, with people not having that great of an outlook going, but stuff like Climate investing stil having to be sold - because somewhere down the line, they are necessary.

Read this:
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/med...roup-note-on-political-economy-of-reforms.pdf

This is how the EU wants their PR to be designed for the next 5 years...  Hate it for them doing so, but you also get an understanding for why they think they need to.

This is backed by the business sector currently btw.


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## smf (Jun 19, 2021)

Darth Meteos said:


> implicitly calling yourself clueless in one hand, refusing to take an l in the pettiest fashion possible in the other
> yup, i'm done here



Are you drunk? You are not making sense.



weatMod said:


> " its still a very bad plan. 4-8 Mio people are dead, the virus is anything but under control (wait for next winter..  ), CO2 emissions werent reduced by that much, processes that lead to much larger disruption (automatisation, digitisation) were fasttracked, ..."



It's way more likely to have been planned by Trump and his cronies than anyone else (I think it's more likely that the moon landing was faked and Buzz will punch you if you accuse him of faking it https://www.cntraveller.in/story/buzz-aldrin-punched-moon-landing-denier/)


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## proflayton123 (Jun 19, 2021)

Death en mass = future sustainability


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 19, 2021)

proflayton123 said:


> Death en mass = future sustainability



If death en mass was the goal and COVID was engineered in a lab whomever made it needs to be fired because it's not that deadly of a virus. They could have done much better!


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## Valwinz (Jun 19, 2021)

SO it turns out the reason scientist dint say anything about the Lab thing was because they didn't want to help Trump

So pretty much Fuck people but I'm not helping Trump


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## BitMasterPlus (Jun 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> SO it turns out the reason scientist dint say anything about the Lab thing was because they didn't want to help Trump
> 
> So pretty much Fuck people but I'm not helping Trump


Orange man bad! Must take him down even if we have to kill all of humanity to do it! Cause that clearly makes sense. Save the world from Trump by having others destroy it first!


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## weatMod (Jun 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Are you drunk? You are not making sense.
> 
> 
> 
> It's way more likely to have been planned by Trump and his cronies than anyone else (I think it's more likely that the moon landing was faked and Buzz will punch you if you accuse him of faking it https://www.cntraveller.in/story/buzz-aldrin-punched-moon-landing-denier/)


yes I have seen that video

could this POS really have landed on the moon? I am not so sure


to think it was any one leader or nation who released COVID is very small minded thinking

RIP Ned Beaty

0:51


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## proflayton123 (Jun 19, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> If death en mass was the goal and COVID was engineered in a lab whomever made it needs to be fired because it's not that deadly of a virus. They could have done much better!



As much it proves not deadly, its certainly had an impact in the amount of deaths caused


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 19, 2021)

proflayton123 said:


> As much it proves not deadly, its certainly had an impact in the amount of deaths caused



Before the vaccine was released the survival rate was hovering around 99.8%. I'm not sure what it is now with the vaccines being released.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> SO it turns out the reason scientist dint say anything about the Lab thing was because they didn't want to help Trump
> 
> So pretty much Fuck people but I'm not helping Trump



The same thing happened when Trump called the virus the "Chinese virus". The entire media complex stopped calling it just that and then called Trump racist for using a term that they had been using for months. The main stream media can go fuck itself.


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## smf (Jun 20, 2021)

weatMod said:


> could this POS really have landed on the moon? I am not so sure



I think it's pretty guaranteed that they sent all that garbage to the moon, because you can see it.

https://skyandtelescope.org/observing/how-to-see-all-six-apollo-moon-landing-sites/

And if you think they faked those, then eventually they'll get found out when someone else sends

So the question is whether they sent the rocket and landed the lunar lander and all the space junk, but still faked the landing with the astronauts. It would be cheaper and easier to send the astronauts for real though.



JonhathonBaxster said:


> Before the vaccine was released the survival rate was hovering around 99.8%. I'm not sure what it is now with the vaccines being released.



99.8% is certainly way off. There are 7.9 billion people in the world, assuming everyone has caught covid (which they haven't) then that would give a death total of 1.58 million. But there have been more than 3.5 million deaths. We don't know how many people have actually been infected and you'll probably come back arguing that the death figures have been inflated. At which point you're just picking 99.8% because its sounds like an insignificant number.

But that is because people don't understand risk. For example covid with a 99% mortality rate kills more people than ebola with a 55-60% mortality rate, because you get sick quickly and die with ebola while covid allows you to keep infecting people without knowing it for weeks.

Anecdotal early evidence is the vaccine seems to have cut the deaths by 75% after one dose, with the second dose around 80-90% depending on which vaccine. So maybe we'll get covid deaths below 1 million a year.

Which might actually get it down to the same level as flu.



JonhathonBaxster said:


> The same thing happened when Trump called the virus the "Chinese virus". The entire media complex stopped calling it just that and then called Trump racist for using a term that they had been using for months. The main stream media can go fuck itself.



Trump and his supporters can go fuck themselves. I don't believe the media did stop at that point, but if they did then it's because they realized it was racist. You are arguing that it should be ok for Trump to keep using a racist term even though everyone else has stopped after realizing it's racist.

If Trump was a stable genius like he claims, then he should have figured out it was racist and stopped using it before the media stopped anyway. However the WTO asked people to use the name covid 19 in february.

It's like saying that men should still be allowed to sexually harass women at work because the media has only just started saying it's wrong after Harvey Weinstein was called out on it.



proflayton123 said:


> Death en mass = future sustainability



Not really, too many unintended consequences.


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## weatMod (Jun 20, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I wasn't trying to discuss Trump, but to be fair no President keeps all of their campaign promises.
> 
> As for the virus. Even if it was some global scheme to gain more control that's not what happened. The world governments simply flexed their muscles and that shined a light on exactly *how much control they already have*.


COVID was deliberate and an attempt to  implement the "great reset" 
all governments signed on,  this is why the  World Economic Forum propaganda phrase "Build Back Better" is on the lips of every  leader globally, they don not just tell them what they are going to say they tell them what they are  going to do
of course the WEF is not the final boss just another  sort of think tank collective middle management organization for   international finance capital
Trump knew about it and allowed it's release as well as shilled for  the vax and many unscrupulous treatments such as Remdesivir and Regeneron 

Remember that everyone was already immunized with a clean immunization including Trump before  COVID was even released  ALL of the CONgress aaand ALL of senate ,the president ,and the WH press core and probably lots of elite  business and media people too such as those who took part in event 201

"everybody here has already been vaccinated anyways"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Joking-Foxs-John-Roberts-Weve-Vaccinated.html

Apparently their damage control  of "apparently joking"    didn't go go over so well judging by the comments on the article.

Remember that this happened in late April of 2020 and at that time there were  no prospects or any hint that  a vaccine was even coming .
but miraculously not even one year later they are rolling out a SARS-COV 2  vaccine even though  allegedly  nobody had ever been able to  come  up  with any vaccine for a corona virus before and when even development of  other vaccines takes closer to one decade than one year.

They got something before the release but I can guarantee you it is not what they are pushing on the rest of us now


https://lmgtfy.app/?q=h1n1+german+politicians+given+clean+vaccine

inb4 it was H1N1 ,  this is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure)
this is just one instance  where they got caught.


Trump is just another fraud and con artist just  like all the rest of them ,he lied and said he and Barron had COVID  and then he  miraculously recovered  like 3 days later after taking all the big pharma crap he had been shilling form prior, wow what a miracle!

people are so fucking gullible  all you have to do is tell them there are two sides and  to pick one
because that are their only options,  
heads I win tails you lose
they fall for it every single time


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