# Surgeon General Warns Against Marijuana Use Among Pregnant Women, Teens



## IncredulousP (Aug 30, 2019)

https://www.upi.com/amp/Health_News...use-among-pregnant-women-teens/3771567097887/

I love the beautiful magical ganja as much as the next person, but please do NOT use any drugs not prescribed or advised by your medical or psychiatric doctor during (or even weeks before) pregnancy. I also wouldn't advise use of caffeine (when pregnant), but there isn't much evidence yet to confirm its harmful effects.


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## x65943 (Sep 2, 2019)

Marijuana is also linked to psychosis in adults, particularly those who may already be genetically predisposed 

Caffeine however is safe


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## morvoran (Sep 2, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Marijuana is also linked to psychosis in adults,


It has also been reported that all people with schizophrenia, mass shooters, and all people with cancer have consumed water throughout their lives.  I don't advise anybody to drink the stuff especially pregnant women.

Remember folks, correlation is not causation.  Reefer madness was not a documentary.
Cannabis may not be the "cure all" that everybody who supports it says, but it's not the evil drug the opponents say, either.  Wait for scientific proof before going either way, but I'll be smoking it, vaping it, & eating it until the day I pass on from this world.
It wasn't made illegal because of the harm it did, but because a racist needed something to go after when alcohol prohibition didn't work out for him.

Plenty of pregnant women used Cannabis before the 1930's and the world didn't fill up with psycho's and mindless drones.  If a mother uses any drugs during pregnancy, it's not likely the kid was going to grow up and be a scholar anyways. 
I smoked since I was 13 and kept at a 3.8-4.0 gpa in school and went to college. Now I have my own business and several of my friends are successful in life, too.  We didn't just smoke a joint a month either.  We went through a lot.  Several factors go into how far you succeed. 
People on pot with psychosis were most likely born that way or had other factors involved.


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## x65943 (Sep 2, 2019)

morvoran said:


> It has also been reported that all people with schizophrenia, mass shooters, and all people with cancer have consumed water throughout their lives.  I don't advise anybody to drink the stuff especially pregnant women.
> 
> Remember folks, correlation is not causation.  Reefer madness was not a documentary.
> Cannabis may not be the "cure all" that everybody who supports it says, but it's not the evil drug the opponents say, either.  Wait for scientific proof before going either way, but I'll be smoking it, vaping it, & eating it until the day I pass on from this world.
> ...


I am not saying cannabis use is the key factor, we know genetics plays a much larger role than environmental factors in the development of schizophrenia

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171005103313.htm

But, as you can see genetics is about 79% of the story, and there is another 21% that is dependent on environmental factors like cannabis use

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21363868/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20194820/

It is not correlational, there is hard science to back this up

The disease, however, is never going to be as simple as something like dwarfism where there is one factor which causes it and we know exactly what caused it - the development is multifactorial, and cannabis just happens to be one of the stronger environmental factors


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## WeedZ (Sep 2, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Marijuana is also linked to psychosis in adults, particularly those who may already be genetically predisposed
> 
> Caffeine however is safe


As in creating a psychotic disorder or having a "psychotic episode"? Cause, in the words of Chris Tucker "man, that's what its suppose to do"


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## x65943 (Sep 2, 2019)

WeedZ said:


> As in creating a psychotic disorder or having a "psychotic episode"? Cause, in the words of Chris Tucker "man, that's what its suppose to do"


Haha

Create a psychotic disorder of course 

All that said my family has a very strong history of schizophrenia and most of my siblings use cannabis - but only one of them has developed schizophrenia so far (fingers crossed)


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## morvoran (Sep 2, 2019)

x65943 said:


> It is not correlational, there is hard science to back this up



I would hardly call these reports "hard science" as these reports can be easily debunked for lack of various criteria in the testing process such as environmental factors of the test subjects.  

Skip to the last line of this reply for my point if you don't want to read this all this.

The first report said 1923 Germans were tested, so it appears they based their results on a very small and isolated group.  Did these people eat the same foods, drink the same water, watch the same tv shows, or attend the same schools?  
What about the cannabis? Where was it grown, what pesticides were used, or what was in the soil?
Who were the scientists?  What are their personal beliefs?  
Who paid for these studies? Drug manufacturers, tobacco companies, or anti-pot groups?
Heck, scientists still can't decide if eggs, bacon, or hand sanitizers are safe or not.

I would still say these "tests" show more correlation that causation.

If you're going to test it, be thorough and show who paid for the study. 
Of all drugs, not one person has died from the use of cannabis.  More people have died from drinking water than having smoked pot. 
The US has a patent showing cannabinoids from cannabis protect the brain from damage and degeneration.  I would say it sounds safe enough to me even for pregnant woman and their babies. 

_tl:dr_  Don't put too much faith in "scientific" reports.  They might not be as truthful as you hope and are definitely not "hard science".


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## WeedZ (Sep 2, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Haha
> 
> Create a psychotic disorder of course
> 
> All that said my family has a very strong history of schizophrenia and most of my siblings use cannabis - but only one of them has developed schizophrenia so far (fingers crossed)


I'm sorry to hear that. That's has to be to tough.


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## x65943 (Sep 2, 2019)

morvoran said:


> I would hardly call these reports "hard science" as these reports can be easily debunked for lack of various criteria in the testing process such as environmental factors of the test subjects.
> 
> Skip to the last line of this reply for my point if you don't want to read this all this.
> 
> ...


The first thing I posted was a lay article about heritability in schizophrenia. It had nothing to do with my points on cannabis.

The two pubmed articles I posted are in fact hard science, and I challenge you to find a flaw with either of those linking cannabis to mental illness. 


WeedZ said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. That's has to be to tough.



Thanks man. Yeah mental illness sucks all around. Especially because there aren't often good treatment options.


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## morvoran (Sep 2, 2019)

x65943 said:


> The two pubmed articles I posted are in fact hard science, and I challenge you to find a flaw with either of those linking cannabis to mental illness.


  The main part of my reply  was about the two articles you posted.  Maybe you shouldn't have skipped right to the tl:dr line  .

In regards to the news article from the OP where the Surgeon General states that smoking marijuana *can* have dangerous effects on development, in the womb and during adolescence.  That is akin to saying that sitting in my car *can* lead to me getting into a car accident and dying when you point the finger at my car as the only factor.  Where is my car? Am I driving or parked?  Am I in poor health?  A lot of factors need to be considered when you make a claim on something.

From this statement -"I want to be very clear -- no amount of marijuana use during pregnancy or adolescence is known to be safe".  Keywords to focus on are "known to be safe".  In other words, he is making a statement of how he feels and not actual science.  Most likely based on reefer madness than facts.  Not exactly what anybody should reasonably call "hard science".


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## TimPV3 (Sep 2, 2019)

morvoran said:


> I smoked since I was 13 and kept at a 3.8-4.0 gpa in school and went to college. Now I have my own business and several of my friends are successful in life, too.  We didn't just smoke a joint a month either.  We went through a lot.  Several factors go into how far you succeed.


You nailed it with the water analogy. My friends never amounted to anything after high school, just sitting on a couch in their mom's basement. Just because it's enjoyed by lazy people, doesn't mean it makes them lazy (they already were). If it wasn't weed it would probably be alcohol instead.


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## GhostLatte (Sep 3, 2019)

But the heavy alcohol and nicotine use among teens is fine


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## Xzi (Sep 3, 2019)

GhostLatte said:


> But the heavy alcohol and nicotine use among teens is fine


The resurgence of nicotine use in the form of vaping among teens has been shocking.  Just goes to show that you can never count out big tobacco, they'll always find a way to make it "cool" again.


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## burial (Sep 3, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Marijuana is also linked to psychosis in adults, particularly those who may already be genetically predisposed
> 
> Caffeine however is safe


Um....caffeine has killed way more people than marijuana and in fact it is very easy to die from caffeine.



Xzi said:


> The resurgence of nicotine use in the form of vaping among teens has been shocking.  Just goes to show that you can never count out big tobacco, they'll always find a way to make it "cool" again.



Nicotine itself is probably less dangerous than caffeine...also "big tobacco" are mostly against vaping.


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## Xzi (Sep 3, 2019)

burial said:


> Nicotine itself is probably less dangerous than caffeine...also "big tobacco" are mostly against vaping.


I didn't mention caffeine, though I certainly wouldn't say it's more* dangerous than nicotine when you consider all the other additives that usually accompany nicotine.  Everything from rat poison to formaldehyde.

One of the biggest names in nicotine vaping, Juul, is owned by Altria, one of the world's biggest cigarette manufacturers.  Big tobacco is heavily intertwined with the nicotine vaping industry, which shouldn't be a surprise to most.

*Edit: a word


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## x65943 (Sep 3, 2019)

burial said:


> Um....caffeine has killed way more people than marijuana and in fact it is very easy to die from caffeine.
> 
> 
> 
> Nicotine itself is probably less dangerous than caffeine...also "big tobacco" are mostly against vaping.


Although it is easier to overdose, it is not teratogenic and has minimal adverse long term sequelae

The issue with cannabis is the potential long term sequelae


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## burial (Sep 3, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I didn't mention caffeine, though I certainly wouldn't say it's more* dangerous than nicotine when you consider all the other additives that usually accompany nicotine.  Everything from rat poison to formaldehyde.
> 
> One of the biggest names in nicotine vaping, Juul, is owned by Altria, one of the world's biggest cigarette manufacturers.  Big tobacco is heavily intertwined with the nicotine vaping industry, which shouldn't be a surprise to most.
> 
> *Edit: a word


Exactly, its the additives and the actual SMOKE that is the real problem with smoking. I was just using caffeine as a comparison.

Juul is an ecigarette and is a little different than real vape devices. Sure some of the big tobacco companies have jumped on the vaping wagon, but big tobacco overall is probably the biggest lobbying group against vaping.


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## gamesquest1 (Sep 3, 2019)

i have smoked weed twice (ok maybe about 5/7 times including sharing a joint), not really enjoyed it, doesn't seem to do to me what it does for others, with me i just get hyper "thinky" then tired, but i think thats the point its a highly subjective substance, i know a friend who was always very normal and happy and they had some weed and practically tried to jump out of a 3rd floor window because "their life is pointless", honestly i hear so many people running around saying what it does and what it doesn't when there isn't any actual "standard" response so claiming either outcome is true is silly

i also see people saying "oh its not addictive because im not addicted" meanwhile i had my stoner friend in school basically turning over his nans house to get money to get more, again there is no "definitive truth" when it comes to these things

and on this note the same comes to caffeine, i used to be a avid coffee drinker, pretty much my only drink, now i cant have a single cup without getting a splitting migraine, i would imagine most substances can have a similar "flip" in people and go from a enjoyable thing to something that actually causes harm

but i would say the ability for weed to have such a dramatic effect on people i would say it should be handled a bit more carefully than people would like to demand sometimes, sure if people are going to do it, they will find a way, but its not something i feel people should run around claiming to be the miracle cure some seem to believe it is


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## morvoran (Sep 3, 2019)

gamesquest1 said:


> i have smoked weed twice (ok maybe about 5/7 times including sharing a joint),


 are you talking about just tonight?  



gamesquest1 said:


> i also see people saying "oh its not addictive because im not addicted" meanwhile i had my stoner friend in school basically turning over his nans house to get money to get more, again there is no "definitive truth" when it comes to these things


It's not addictive in a physical sense.  It's habitual.  The process of smoking and feeling the high becomes a norm to you, and you feel the need to put everything back "to the way it usually is".  That is where the "addictive" attitude comes in which is purely mental.  With caffeine, you get a headache from withdrawal and morphine, (OMG), the pain from those withdrawals is unbearable and can kill you.  This is what makes them addictive.  Your body tells you that you need them and not just your mind. Go a day or two without pot, and you'll be fine.



gamesquest1 said:


> and on this note the same comes to caffeine,


  You'd be surprised just how little amount of caffeine can kill you.   A single teaspoon of pure caffeine (about 25 cups of coffee worth) is enough to kill a grown person.  I get migraine like headaches if I go through a morning without coffee.  I'm addicted.

Plus, nobody ever brings up sugar.  Sugar is claimed by a lot of people to be one of the most addictive substances.  No scientific studies done to prove how addictive, but try going a week without any form of sugar (including fruits, etc.)  Sugar can also kill you by giving you diabetes and then killing you from the diabetes.  Not good for women or their babies.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 3, 2019)

I'm not sure what to think of the article in the OP. It's partially also due to my own circumstances. 

Let's see...First and foremost, I'm all in favor of legalizing marijuana. When I was young, I was under the impression that this was a soft drug, which - honestly - it was. Heck...the kick of doing something illegal was almost more the thrill than the actual product itself. Which...isn't something I would consider harmful to society (especially when compared to the completely legal alcohol and tobacco).
Not too long ago, I had to shift that view somewhat. Rather than the plant 'that had some use', it became clear that it was continuously grown to have far more effect nowadays. It's not like the "old" weed is gone, but when there is marijuana on the streets that's five to ten times more toxic, it has its effect on the average marijuana conversation (the equivalent would be from going from "drinking a wine a day" to "drinking a vodka a day").
Still...when I read a source that warns against marijuana, my first reaction is "oh, grow up!". Some lobby groups won't be satisfied until everyone eats and drinks nothing but bread and water.


On the other hand: I've got a pregnant woman at home. And from her, I can say that pregnancy isn't a cakewalk. She still has to throw up nearly each morning, her mood swings heavily and there is A LOT that she either isn't allowed or that she can't have. Alcohol, tobacco, raw eggs (including in ingredients, like tiramisu), raw meat (Americain) and anything but the most thoroughly washed vegetables(1)...the list goes on. If small things like these can have a profound negative effect on the unborn baby (those little critters are darn fragile before they're born!), I have no trouble believing that marijuana has an effect as well. Not because some unknown group says it...but because it's plain common sense. I mean...my girlfriend can't even take her medicine to aid her against her mushroom allergy...doesn't it just make sense that smoking a drug has a negative effect?



(1): this has lead to some surrealistic scenarios, like us heading over to McDonalds (on her request)...but throwing away the vegetables of her hamburger


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## Xzi (Sep 3, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Alcohol, tobacco, raw eggs (including in ingredients, like tiramisu), raw meat (Americain) and anything but the most thoroughly washed vegetables(1)...the list goes on. If small things like these can have a profound negative effect on the unborn baby (those little critters are darn fragile before they're born!), I have no trouble believing that marijuana has an effect as well.


I wonder if CBD might have the desired pain relieving/calming effect for pregnant women without harming the baby.  The issue is there just aren't enough studies out there yet because it's been ridiculously taboo for so long.  Otherwise innocuous pain relief drugs such as ibuprofen are harmful, so it's hard to guess at.


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## DBlaze (Sep 3, 2019)

You shouldn't use or ingest crap in any sort of way when pregnant, who would've thought 
in other news: water can make things wet when it comes in contact.


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## Deleted User (Sep 3, 2019)

as someone who is _very high risk_ of schizophrenia and isn't allowed to do weed till i'm 25 as well as being on a watch list for safety to verify i'm a bit more safe, i I can safely say that yes, there is a correlation, and this isn't really any news to me


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## SG854 (Sep 3, 2019)

GhostLatte said:


> But the heavy alcohol and nicotine use among teens is fine


It's not.
Alcohol is illegal for teens. You have to be 21.


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## GhostLatte (Sep 3, 2019)

SG854 said:


> It's not.
> Alcohol is illegal for teens. You have to be 21.


I was being sarcastic. Also, alcohol is very easy to obtain for underage people. Trust me I would know as a college student.


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## SG854 (Sep 3, 2019)

GhostLatte said:


> I was being sarcastic. Also, alcohol is very easy to obtain.


So is Marijuanaor any other drug

Anything is easy to obtain if you know where to look.


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## ClappyBird (Sep 4, 2019)

In two words (((Big Pharma)))


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