# Aliens



## tagzard (Jul 21, 2011)

Do you believe in them?
@AlanJohn- Outer space ones


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## AlanJohn (Jul 21, 2011)

*Alien (law), a non-citizen inhabitant of a country*
Hell yes I believe in them.
I even saw one!


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## Rayder (Jul 21, 2011)

I've always been of the opinion that it would be conceited to think that Earth is the ONLY planet in the universe with complex life on it.  I look up in the sky at night and see all those stars, most of which have planets orbiting them, and I can't help but think that at least some of them are looking back at us wondering the same thing.


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## thela_kid (Jul 21, 2011)

As quoted from one of my favorite movies, "It'd be an awful waste of space."


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## Deleted_171835 (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm pretty sure aliens exist. It seems odd to think that in this vast universe, we're alone.

I'm not in the mood to start a debate or post a long post so I'll just add this video which should explain most UFO sightings and the search for physical evidence among other stuff.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAzaDyae-k[/youtube]


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## Mantis41 (Jul 21, 2011)

Check these two news stories
http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech...c-1226098833887
http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech...c-1226042001056

I'm off to make a tin foil hat......


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## Pyrmon (Jul 21, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure aliens exist. It seems odd to think that in this vast solar system, we're alone.
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> I'm not in the mood to start a debate or post a long post so I'll just add this video which should explain most UFO sightings and the search for physical evidence among other stuff.
> snip


You can be pretty much 100% sure we are alone in the solar system. In the Universe, probably not.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 21, 2011)

Mantis41 said:
			
		

> Check these two news stories
> http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech...c-1226098833887
> http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech...c-1226042001056
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> I'm off to make a tin foil hat......


Both were reported to be a hoax.


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## Raika (Jul 21, 2011)

Even though I do not believe in the existence of alien lifeforms, I am unable disprove the fact that they do not exist either.

Thus I shall remain neutral. If they do indeed exist, it would be rather interesting to find ways to interact with them. If they do not, life goes on.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jul 21, 2011)

Pyrmon said:
			
		

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Ah, I used the wrong word. I tend to use solar system and universe interchangeably.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 21, 2011)

Aliens out there... Definitely yes, there are far too many galaxies with far too many stars with far too many planets for there not to be.
Aliens visiting us... probably not. I will not completely deny the possibility, but to paraphrase Dr. Hawking, if the governments were covering up alien visitation, it would be the only thing they have ever managed to actually do.


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## SinHarvest24 (Jul 22, 2011)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87PRVP4EQAo&feature[/youtube]


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## Serina (Jul 22, 2011)

why not?

it's a big universe. 
gotta be out there somewhere.


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## Narayan (Jul 22, 2011)

Raika said:
			
		

> Even though I do not believe in the existence of alien lifeforms, I am unable disprove the fact that they do not exist either.
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> Thus I shall remain neutral. If they do indeed exist, it would be rather interesting to find ways to interact with them. If they do not, life goes on.


this

seeing is believing.


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## machomuu (Jul 22, 2011)

Yes, I do.  I also completely agree with Rayder.


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## Nujui (Jul 22, 2011)

I can't prove theirs is aliens, nor can I prove that their isn't.


Though I believe more that their could be life out there.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 22, 2011)

I have always asked myself the same question. Here are two things I think:

Maybe it could be that God created such a beautiful universe(that is huge) because he knew that we would soon need to expand onto other planets because of over population, or what ever the cause.

Or, it could be that we are not alone, and the Universe is full of planets that have life on them, but we just don't have the technology to move on.

But, one thing I don't get is why people think aliens are going to be these big blobs of what ever they are and are mean and green. Why wouldn't you just think that they are regular humans like us. I mean, God create all humans in God's image. If you wanted to argue the point that aliens are not humans, but animals, then why would you call them "intellegent" lifeforms. If they were animals, they would be running on instinct, not knowledge.

So, the point that some go after are that "Jesus said that aliens don't exist"(I don't know where that was in the bible, it might be). To the point, maybe these aliens are not aliens. We are one big community of people that live in different parts of the universe. I mean, the meaning of alien may differ from what Jesus's meaning of alien was.

So, it is an ongoing scientific and religios debate. I would say, well yes there are other LIFEFORMS out there, I wouldn't call them aliens, persay.


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## Raiser (Jul 22, 2011)

Yes, I do believe aliens exist.



			
				Rayder said:
			
		

> I've always been of the opinion that it would be conceited to think that Earth is the ONLY planet in the universe with complex life on it.  I look up in the sky at night and see all those stars, most of which have planets orbiting them, and I can't help but think that at least some of them are looking back at us wondering the same thing.


Well said. Not only that, but more than likely some of them have developed a solid form of deep space travel.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 22, 2011)

AlanJohn said:
			
		

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I am guessing your the type of person who just believes people right off the bat.


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## machomuu (Jul 22, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> But, one thing I don't get is why people think aliens are going to be these big blobs of what ever they are and are mean and green.


That's simple, for the most part humans are ignorant, conceited, and think we're the best things in the universe.  Why do you think we treat all other animals like their lower class pieces of crap?


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## DarkShinigami (Jul 22, 2011)

i believe that we are not alone i hope they take me back some day


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 22, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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And I am not even going to bring up the debate of children's rights.

Well, might as well. Sometimes children are treated like lower class pieces of crap. Back in the day, and still now, while the adults got the delicious meals, the children had to eat food like they were poor.

So it isn't always the animals being treated like lower class. Also, I will have to say that dogs, and other animals, are sometimes spoiled, sorry to say. Some animals are even treated like humans, so the fact you bring up animals is debatable.

There are some children though who get great care. So, it isn't the human race, it is the person themselves.

Edit: And, not all humans are the same. I always thought aliens were going to be like us(maybe a little different, but not much). For the most part, I think the government, the media itself, has always tried to brain wash children into thinking aliens were evil green men, especially when they release movies like Alien or Alien vs. Predator. I mean, yes other lifeforms could be evil, but I always have the system of "Innocent till proven guilty". It almost seems like we are discriminating anything that has to do with aliens(unless of course you are talking about illegal-aliens).


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## Mantis41 (Jul 22, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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I'm guessing you’re young and missed the sarcasm.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 22, 2011)

Mantis41 said:
			
		

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That was sarcasm? Didn't seem like it was.

And I am not young. Now please, let us get rid of the arguments here, if we don't want to get off topic.

Edit: I am also guessing that your young because we mature people don't use much sarcasm anymore. We get the point across.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm not so sure a debate about the existence of intelligent life on other planets is the correct place to be talking about God (the 'made in Gods image' part really irritates me about this particular branch of religion, if it were remotely true, we would all look the same. We don't, people from different parts of the world look quite different from each other). Many religious _people_ (perhaps not the teachings) believe Earth to be the only planet in the entire Universe that could possible have intelligent life on it. I think that that particular view is a little old fissioned for the world we currently live in. As for the talk about aliens being 'animals' I would like to remind you that we are *all* animals. We, as humans are no better or 'higher' than the rest of the creatures on this or any other planet. Your argument about animals running on instinct rather than knowledge I can only interoperate as being wrong. Every animal shows signs of intelligence and is more than capable of using their past experience to influence future decisions. They learn that some actions lead to good outcomes and others to bad ones. Personally, I feel that any aliens that are in a similar position to us (as humans) will probably look similar to us, the evolutionary process has ensured that our bodies are quite efficient (no perfect you will note) and it stands to reason, that bipeds with two arms, a bunch of fingers, front-facing eyes etc. is the result of a good evolutionary process on any other planet too. However, the technology, or rather the understanding required to travel the vast distances between stars would suggest that it is unlikely that we would be visited by aliens. For a start, if life is sparse in the universe, it would be unlikely that they would even find us, never mind going out of their way to come and have a look.


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## cwstjdenobs (Jul 22, 2011)

Do I believe there are other intelligent animals out there in the universe capable of the amazing shit we are capable of then yes. In fact with how vast just the observable universe is I think it's pretty much a certainty. Do I think they are coming here and anally probing drunk hicks, mutilating cattle, making crop circles, putting on pretty aerial light shows etc... then no, not in the slightest.

I do think though that there is a good chance that the universe just isn't old enough yet for anything to be more advanced than us, at least by a major or non cosmetic amount. They may say already have fusion power, which isn't something we can't do just something we haven't got around to. Or they may just have more flashy looking tech in general use, or it's their fashion to have it all more visible. Like say parts of Asia look more high tech than anywhere else in the world but they aren't actually more advanced than the big European countries or North America.


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## 1234turtles (Jul 22, 2011)

they're real 
didnt they find livings organisms on mars


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## cwstjdenobs (Jul 22, 2011)

1234turtles said:
			
		

> they're real
> didnt they find livings organisms on mars



Nope. They thought they found a fossilised nematode on a sample of rock from an asteroid that was a part of Mars, but back then electron microscopes had to have their samples coated in a thin gold film, in the same way DIY ones can only pick up metal objects, and that made a normal looking feature in the sample look like a worm.


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## Pyrmon (Jul 22, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> I'm not so sure a debate about the existence of intelligent life on other planets is the correct place to be talking about God (the 'made in Gods image' part really irritates me about this particular branch of religion, if it were remotely true, we would all look the same. We don't, people from different parts of the world look quite different from each other).
> I'm not Christian and definitely don't believe this, but you seem to be missing the point. I think that the whole "in God's image part" means God has a similar body to humans. Like arms, legs, etc. Or maybe I'm understanding it wrong. Maybe it's to be taken in a more psychological way. In example, God, I presume, likes to create, which is something every human likes. We are all creative in some way(painting, inventing, etc). Maybe I'm just over-analyzing this. I'm just pretty sure it's not be taken like you did though.
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While it is quite possible that a sentient alien life-form might have followed a similar evolutionary path, due to evolutionary convergence, it is also a possibility that they evolved very differently from us. Truth be told, we have no idea what a sentient alien life-form could look like.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 22, 2011)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

> I do think though that there is a good chance that the universe just isn't old enough yet for anything to be more advanced than us, at least by a major or non cosmetic amount.



Wow. The Universe is quite accurately estimated to be about 13.7 billion years old, and Earth is about 4.55 billion years old with out solar system being around 4.7 billion years old. This gives a really huge chance that we are in no way the first 'intelligent' planet, even if there is a life supporting planet just 1 million years older than earth, just think how much _we_ could evolve in 1 million years. Humans have only been around for about 50 thousand years and look how far we have come! Even if an alien planet is 50 thousand years older than earth, we would be like cave men to them.


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## wasim (Jul 22, 2011)

Nice topic .............

i am not 100% sure that aliens are there 
but there are chances that they exist !

If there are aliens they must be asking this very question too !
maybe posting this on their GBAtemp


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## cwstjdenobs (Jul 22, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> Wow. The Universe is quite accurately estimated to be about 13.7 billion years old, and Earth is about 4.55 billion years old with out solar system being around 4.7 billion years old. This gives a really huge chance that we are in no way the first 'intelligent' planet, even if there is a life supporting planet just 1 million years older than earth, just think how much _we_ could evolve in 1 million years. Humans have only been around for about 50 thousand years and look how far we have come! Even if an alien planet is 50 thousand years older than earth, we would be like cave men to them.



And while that may sound like a long time it happened to take a long time for the universe to "evolve" to the state that a star like ours, and therefore a solar system like ours, could exist. Ie enough heavy elements about. In fact the Sun is believed to be one of the first generation of such stars. And then there's how long it takes for life to start off at all. About 1 billion years in the case of the Earth. And it was only about 550 million years ago that complex life started to happen. And while homo sapiens have only being around for about 200,000 years, actual definite human species have being around much longer. We did not start from scratch. And how long has it being that society has moved on to the point that progress has being constant and not taking generations for each tiny improvement? 200-300 years? And things seem to be slowing down again of late, yes? It's not life evolving to a certain point that leads to things getting very advanced either, it's societies. All these other things have to "evolve" or progress to a point where a society can start.

While 13.7 billion years sounds a lot, as far as the evolution of the universe goes it still hasn't crawled out of the primordial soup.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Jul 22, 2011)

Can't say I do. The concept and possibility is fascinating though


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## spinal_cord (Jul 22, 2011)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

> Spoiler
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That doesn't in any way mean that we are the first, or even the quickest to evolve. There is no real reason to suppose that we are.

[edit] double post got merged[/edit]


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## Sop (Jul 22, 2011)

There are aliens on Hayley's comet.
Although I probably need to lurkmoar.


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## cwstjdenobs (Jul 22, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> [snip...]
> That doesn't in any way mean that we are the first, or even the quickest to evolve. There is no real reason to suppose that we are.
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> QUOTE(cwstjdenobs @ Jul 22 2011, 08:27 AM) I do think though *that there is a good chance* that the universe just isn't old enough...



I wasn't trying to say it must be so, was just saying there's a good chance we're about as good as it could of got so far. Nor was I saying we are definitely *the* first, but we sure are among the first. To the best of our knowledge you can only do chemistry as complex as life needs with carbon. That means you could only get life around stars about the same age as our sun or newer, with planets like ours around them. Life would need the same conditions, so blah blah blah and so on the physics basically says that for any life bearing planet, that could sustain life for long enough for it to evolve into complex life, to form and get to the point where the life can start on it will always take about the same time or longer. After that point, sure I guess once life starts it could somehow come across certain conditions that allow it to evolve much faster, but why would that make them more advanced? The biological evolution is not so important when you consider that intelligence isn't a good survival trait when compared to size, strength, population growth etc.

If there is other intelligent technology using life in the universe this is the only way it could be out there and us not picking it up yet unless you somehow only get one such species per galaxy. If they where there first, and such a long time before us they could become much more advanced than us, where's their TV commercials?


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## Blaze163 (Jul 22, 2011)

Aliens do exist, I'm certain of it. With all the planets in just our galaxy alone, at least one other must have life of some kind on it. But I doubt we'll see them any time soon. Why would they want to visit a species that allows Rebecca Black to be classed as a singer? Or Paris Hilton as a celebrity? They're looking down on us from the stars thinking 'Wow, what a bunch of fucktards'. Let's work on getting rid of the flaws in this civilisation before we go looking for another one to fuck up, shall we? Besides, the way we are at the moment, first contact with any alien race would inevitably go badly wrong. It'd be like that episode of Star Trek Enterprise 'In A Mirror Darkly'. We were SUPPOSED to greet the alien and usher in a new era of peace and exploration. But instead we shoot them for being slightly different to us and fuck everything up. In reality it'd be some inbred redneck banging on about how he was 'abducted', shooting aliens for 'revenge'. You KNOW that's how it'd happen.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 22, 2011)

I believe that where not alone, since the chance of a star having a planet in the habbitable zone is about 3% (and there are billions of stars in our galaxy).
But I DON'T believe that aliens visited us on flying saucers and the USSR & USA covered it all up.
Also I don't believe that their are intelligent extra-terristrial life forms on Zeta Reticuli or on its planet Reticulum 4 (which probably doesn't even exist).



			
				Sop said:
			
		

> There are aliens on Hayley's comet.
> Although I probably need to lurkmoar.


*facepalm*


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## DeadLocked (Jul 22, 2011)

Yes I believe the chances of there being life outweighs the chances of there not being any out there.
I doubt we'll ever see them in person though. Who knows, we may even get radio signals at some point.

Kind of dwarfs our mundane human lives and problems in perspective...


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## Satangel (Jul 22, 2011)

I believe in Aliens and I am 100% sure there is intelligent Alien life out there. But chances we find them in the next 500 years or so, are close to 0 percent. 
I would really love to see Alien life (who wouldn't?) but the methods to search and find them are currently too slow to find them. I really wish the whole world would really invest TOGETHER in new methods and research to explore the Universe more.


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## Shinigami357 (Jul 22, 2011)

@cwstjdenobs - That's assuming that all life forms should be identical to the ones we are used to. That certainly isn't the case. In fact, scientists are routinely discovering some forms of life in places the conventional way of thinking could not have predicted [not sentient life, true, but still life].

To the point - scientists speculate that a large portion of prehistoric life might not be able to survive in the modern world. There's too much oxygen, the weather patterns are not the same, flora and fauna have changed, etc. And if the place that these creatures that actually lived here before could be changed so much and still allow as much diversity, who's to say that such things [or even more bizarre things] can't happen elsewhere?

We can't say for sure how life could evolve in other places, because it's always so resilient, to the point that it's like it has double-redundant fail-safes. Bacteria can mutate from one strain to another in hours. Even a virus can carry DNA. And of course, like Darwin proved centuries ago - the life forms always adapt to their environment. It's that or face extinction. And I have complete faith [not in the science but in the resilience and creativity of life in general] that life can indeed evolve regardless of whether it's in an Earth-like or non-Earth-like environment.


On Topic.

Rather obvious. I believe that life exists. It can be anywhere, at any time, under any circumstance. The Universe is just one more frontier for it to conquer, and who's to say it can't?


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## The Catboy (Jul 22, 2011)

I do believe in aliens myself. I am not sure if they are in our galaxy, but I am willing to bet there is another planet out there just like Earth that has life on it as well.


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## SinHarvest24 (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm guessing from the non/questionable believers here, that they didn't watch the videos on the first page. Explain that. Aliens do exist.


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## smealum (Jul 22, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> I'm guessing from the non/questionable believers here, that they didn't watch the videos on the first page. Explain that. Aliens do exist.


And I'm guessing you didn't watch the first video. Just because something in the sky can't be identified or explained doesn't mean it's an alien.


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## Shinigami357 (Jul 22, 2011)

Hey, relax guys. Let's not get into circular arguments, ok?


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## SinHarvest24 (Jul 22, 2011)

smealum said:
			
		

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Correct. I shall watch it.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 22, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> I'm not so sure a debate about the existence of intelligent life on other planets is the correct place to be talking about God (the 'made in Gods image' part really irritates me about this particular branch of religion, if it were remotely true, we would all look the same. We don't, people from different parts of the world look quite different from each other). Many religious _people_ (perhaps not the teachings) believe Earth to be the only planet in the entire Universe that could possible have intelligent life on it. I think that that particular view is a little old fissioned for the world we currently live in. As for the talk about aliens being 'animals' I would like to remind you that we are *all* animals. We, as humans are no better or 'higher' than the rest of the creatures on this or any other planet. Your argument about animals running on instinct rather than knowledge I can only interoperate as being wrong. Every animal shows signs of intelligence and is more than capable of using their past experience to influence future decisions. They learn that some actions lead to good outcomes and others to bad ones. Personally, I feel that any aliens that are in a similar position to us (as humans) will probably look similar to us, the evolutionary process has ensured that our bodies are quite efficient (no perfect you will note) and it stands to reason, that bipeds with two arms, a bunch of fingers, front-facing eyes etc. is the result of a good evolutionary process on any other planet too. However, the technology, or rather the understanding required to travel the vast distances between stars would suggest that it is unlikely that we would be visited by aliens. For a start, if life is sparse in the universe, it would be unlikely that they would even find us, never mind going out of their way to come and have a look.
> Wrong again, my friend. There is one thing that humans have that seperate us from the animals. It is a conscience. QUOTEAnimals are directed by their instincts, needs, and learned behaviors, not by a moral code. Humans, on the other hand, have someting that drives them towards two options, the good and the bad way. From there, humans can decide to do from there. Yes, humans do have an "instinct", but that instinct is often interrupted by his or her conscience. Now, if a person were to be phsycologically ill, such as being a phsycho-path, the person could not be able to correctly use the conscience.



A full-fledged answer my friend. You may think I am ignorant, but I am only displaying the facts before you.

Edit: And, here is a video about a siting called the "Pheonix Lights", which is the most power evidence if alien existance.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx6bKMuIKNE&feature=related[/youtube]


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## nando (Jul 22, 2011)

i think there are aliens, i don't believe they've ever made it to earth.


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## Linkiboy (Jul 22, 2011)

http://www.science20.com/stars_planets_lif...ld_begin_chance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe#Size...ure.2C_and_laws

If aliens don't exist, we are defying statistics.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 22, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Wrong again, my friend. There is one thing that humans have that seperate us from the animals. It is a conscience.
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So you're saying that if a human was raised by wild animals and had not learned how modern man acts around others, then their conscience would still let them know the 'correct' way to act? I find that hard to swallow. There are plenty of cases where animals have adopted the young of other animals, overcoming their natural instinct to kill and eat them example, example, example.
Both humans and the rest of the animals act in a way that is beneficial to themselves, people are nice to each other because they have _learned_ that in return others will usually be nice to them. Others are nasty to each other because they have _learned_ that they can get what they want out of a situation regardless. the same applies to other animals. A dog might be kind natured because it has _learned_ that in return for its kindness, people will feed and house it. On the flip side, a 'bad' dog has also _learned_ that it can take what it wants without needing to be nice in order to get it. Morals are just learned behaviour, like anything else. the difference is, that we (humans) cover most of the planet, so it is the norm that the next generation learns a lot from the last, whereas in the animal kingdom it is less likely.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

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One thing to go against your "facts". During World War II, children in Germany were raised to hate to Jews. They were raised as the Hitler Youth. Yes, many of them fell for these lies of "We must preserve our nation by killing the Jews(and many other races)", but there were some who, even though raised to make a "pure" nation, knew this was wrong and went against Hitler, but then were killed.

Also, there have been children who were raised to be athiests(true stories). From what your think, all these children would have stayed this way because they learned from their parents to be this way, but some of them turn Christian, knowing that athiests are wrong.

So, your theory is not correct in the long-run.

Edit: And, actually the animals who adopted the babies of others actually ate the younglings in the end. Scientists don't know why they do it. They have some conclusion that the animals could have been "playing" with their food. We don't know if the animals were trying to be nice or what.


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## Psyfira (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> But, one thing I don't get is why people think aliens are going to be these big blobs of what ever they are and are mean and green. Why wouldn't you just think that they are regular humans like us. I mean, God create all humans in God's image. If you wanted to argue the point that aliens are not humans, but animals, then why would you call them "intellegent" lifeforms. If they were animals, they would be running on instinct, not knowledge.


Assuming "everyone thinks aliens don't look like us" is kind of incorrect, I'm guessing you don't watch a lot of science fiction? But the opposite is true as well, we can't assume that all intelliegent life God placed in the universe can be matched to something we already know. We have no idea how many worlds God has created, maybe we're just one part of a much larger picture. The assumption that all dominant alien lifeforms would resemble one particular race from our planet is incorrect, but we can't assume that they won't either. We just don't know.

The point is there's a lot of possibilities, and we can't really assume anything. Religeon, evolution, whichever side of the bat you go for, to assume that our little world has shown us every kind of life the universe has to offer is just narrow minded. To this day, there are thousands of species of insect and deep sea life on earth that have yet to be catalogued.

Just because bipedal humans turned out to be one of the strongest races for the environmental conditions on this particular planet doesn't nessasarily mean the same will be true of somewhere else. If a world contains 95% water for instance, the dominant race would be some kind of aquatic creature and creationism / evolution would go from there.

(To answer the origianl question in this thread; yes I do believe there is life out there somewhere. Whether we ever get far enough out there to find it or prove it or even recognise it when we see it, who knows. But the universe is just too damn big to just have us in it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

Psyfira said:
			
		

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Well, you have some points there, but there is a debate(well, one that just started) about what God meant by "image". I mean, did he mean in physical terms, or in more of a term that our archetecture(or what you would call it) is the same. Yes, on other planets the environment is different and humans there would have to adapt to that environment, but they are still human, like us.

And I don't really believe in the theory of evolution. It is kind of an athiest theory. Most of it tries to prove that not God made all things, but the world itself did. They try to say the universe just happened. Well, somewhat that goes against the idea that "Every action has an equal reaction". Well, look at it this way. God being all powerful and strong, he created a really beatiful, fantastic, I can't even describe it, Universe. Now, the Big Bang theory doesn't go with this idea of science. They theorized that this big mass just exploded out of no where and made the universe.

So, in conclusion, the Evolution theory is more of an idea to turn peopel away from God. Well, yes chimps have 99% of their DNA matching ours, but what about that 1%. I mean, there are lots of species that are closely related to each other, but we don't say that they came from each other. 

Now, back on topic. Yes, you have some points there. The other argument I could lay against you is that the Bible said "his image" not images.

So, it is an ongoing debate.


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## Magmorph (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> One thing to go against your "facts". During World War II, children in Germany were raised to hate to Jews. They were raised as the Hitler Youth. Yes, many of them fell for these lies of "We must preserve our nation by killing the Jews(and many other races)", but there were some who, even though raised to make a "pure" nation, knew this was wrong and went against Hitler, but then were killed.
> Did this happen without any outside influence? If humans know right from wrong then why do massive genocides keep happening?
> 
> 
> ...


I highly doubt that tortoise ate its adopted baby hippo. I don't think you even read the articles posted or have any evidence of the claims you are making.

I don't know how this thread got so off topic. I wouldn't say that there is even a 100% certainty that there is no life in our solar system. We have explored very little of it extensively.


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## SinHarvest24 (Jul 23, 2011)

Magmorph said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
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I was just waiting for it.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

Magmorph said:
			
		

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Yes some cases went without outside influence(If you learned the history of World War II, you would understand).

Did something darastic happen to these children? There are many very ill-willed people out there, you know.

Well, how do you know the Tortiose actually adopted the baby Hippo? You don't know what the animals were thinking(if you know, then please tell me).

Now, I don't have the time to argue with people who have no idea what they are talking about, so please stay on topic. No, I don't believe aliens exist, but I do believe that lifeforms or beings on other planets do.


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## Pyrmon (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Well, you have some points there, but there is a debate(well, one that just started) about what God meant by "image". I mean, did he mean in physical terms, or in more of a term that our archetecture(or what you would call it) is the same. Yes, on other planets the environment is different and humans there would have to adapt to that environment, but they are still human, like us.
> 
> And I don't really believe in the theory of evolution. It is kind of an athiest theory. Most of it tries to prove that not God made all things, but the world itself did. They try to say the universe just happened. Well, somewhat that goes against the idea that "Every action has an equal reaction". Well, look at it this way. God being all powerful and strong, he created a really beatiful, fantastic, I can't even describe it, Universe. Now, the Big Bang theory doesn't go with this idea of science. They theorized that this big mass just exploded out of no where and made the universe.
> 
> ...


You, sir, are an idiot. 
Evolution if *fact*. Period. Look it up. It's purpose is not to make people atheists, it's so we know the truth. Evolution and the Big Bang make far more sense than God just magically poofing everything in existence. There's evidence.
The Big bang did not happen on it's own. There are possible causes for it. Go look it up.
And the theory of evolution does not state we come from chimps. It says chimps are our distant cousins. We have a common ancestor.
The Bible is far from an accurate account of the creation of the Universe. The fact it says there was light before stars and plants before the sun and that the Universe is approximately 6000 years old are proof enough.

Now, read some of this. And this. And, especially for you, this.

Now, let me clarify. I believe in God. I also believe in not being a moron. Good day.

P-S: I wanted to keep my post count at 1000 a bit longer, but I can not ignore this... post...


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## machomuu (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> So, in conclusion, the Evolution theory is more of an idea to turn peopel away from God. Well, yes chimps have 99% of their DNA matching ours, but what about that 1%. I mean, there are lots of species that are closely related to each other, but we don't say that they came from each other.


Wh...what?  That's...what?  That's not it at all.  Where did you hear that we have 99% the same DNA, that's not how it works, that's not why scientists think we're similar.  And to the first statement...what?  It's not an athiestic theory...heck, even strict chrisitans know that the Adam and Eve story isn't true, it's just a teaching story.


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## Vigilante (Jul 23, 2011)

There are.
Don't trust our todays current science.
There are still millions or even billions out there that are just waiting to be discovered.


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## KingVamp (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> No, I don't believe aliens exist, but *I do believe that lifeforms or beings on other planets do.*


Isn't that what we mean by aliens here?

Kinda wish they were. That are nice,look,live and do technology different.
Just to see something new. They have too, it would be nice just to see if it more out there.

Like a planet of Sky and Water people... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




AKA 50/50


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## spinal_cord (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Well, how do you know the Tortiose actually adopted the baby Hippo? You don't know what the animals were thinking(if you know, then please tell me).
> 
> An old cat that my family had, once protected a bird from out other cat, she was very friendly and maternal and liked to protect all things.
> 
> ...



If God mad man in his image, why then do people from different parts of the world look different from each other? Surely if we were all created with the same mold, we would all be the same hight, skin tone, face shape etc.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 23, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

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No, no, no, no!
You got it all wrong!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien

Life on other planets is called extra-terrestrial life.
Aliens are extra-terrestrials that come here.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

AlanJohn said:
			
		

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Finally, someone is understanding.


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## Narayan (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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you know, technically, aliens still exist.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 23, 2011)

Narayan said:
			
		

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Dude, I have one working in my garden right now!


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## spinal_cord (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Interesting how you comment on that point rather than the other points I made, such as the church officially acknowledging the big bang and evolution.
That page you linked says that Aliens are a non-citizen inhabitant of a country, not an extra terrestrial being visiting earth.


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## xist (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> One thing to go against your "facts". During World War II, children in Germany were raised to hate to Jews. They were raised as the Hitler Youth. Yes, many of them fell for these lies of "We must preserve our nation by killing the Jews(and many other races)", but there were some who, even though raised to make a "pure" nation, knew this was wrong and went against Hitler, but then were killed..



And did you read how successful this endeavour was? Not very, when they literally had to enforce people to attend as time went on...


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

xist said:
			
		

> RoyalCardMan said:
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Edit: Sorry, didn't get actually what you were trying to say. To reply correctly, my point is that these people who were enforced to go, some of them rebeled, even though they were enforced.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Edit: Sorry, didn't get actually what you were trying to say. To reply correctly, my point is that these people who were enforced to go, some of them rebeled, even though they were enforced.



All animals rebel when they are forced to do something, nothing human about that.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

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When did I say that everything between humans and animals were totally different? It is like you are putting words in my mouth.


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## xist (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Edit: Sorry, didn't get actually what you were trying to say. To reply correctly, my point is that these people who were enforced to go, some of them rebeled, even though they were enforced.



You used Hitler Youth as an example of something, when in fact i was just trying to point out that it wasn't a very good example of anything. More people have been brainwashed into believing in a Religion or omnipotent force than the Nazi German regime ever managed to influence. 

Many people inherently want something bigger in their lives because they can't cope with the mundane nature of human existence. Hence the belief in Aliens and, in my opionion, Religion. They're crutches to rely on.


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## Pyrmon (Jul 23, 2011)

spinal_cord said:
			
		

> If God mad man in his image, why then do people from different parts of the world look different from each other? Surely if we were all created with the same mold, we would all be the same hight, skin tone, face shape etc.


While I agree with your point, you argument sucks.


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## Psyfira (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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I got that from your earlier posts, notice I said "creationism / evolution". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm taking the middle ground here, and you can believe whichever of the two you want. I'm not going to push what I believe off onto you. I will point out (as others have) that evolution / Big Bang Theory doesn't turn people away from God, because if theoretically the process was true then something must have started it and that could easily be a God or divine being of some sort. 

As for "his image",  now we're wandering into the territory of validity of the Bible and I feel we're going a little off-topic for a discussion about life on other worlds.

(To clarify my views I'm a scientist, I believe in the evidence in front of me when it comes to evolution, I have no idea if there's a God upstairs or not, and frankly I don't care. But I'm sensitive to your views and trying to think objectively around the issue, because I'm open minded like that.)


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

Psyfira said:
			
		

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I feel your trying to insult me. First of all, this is one thing to let you know.

Open mindeness can lead to liberalism(if you are liberal, I still respect you though for being human, for all humans made in God's image have dignity, meaning I must respect you).

And, actually this topic is also a religious debate, and for being a scientist I thought you would have known that. And, yes the Big Bang theory does go towards Athiasm(Sorry if I spelled that wrong). In the Bible, it says he created all things as if spontanious. The Big Bang theory is an ignorant theory because it tries to prove either that God is not as all mighty as the universe(which doesn't make sense because he did create the universe) or it tries to prove that God did not exist and that a huge explosion caused the universe to form.


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## xist (Jul 23, 2011)

No it doesn't. What if your idea of "God" woke up one morning and decided to find out what would happen if the did his "Big Bang" experiment with singularities?

You're replacing one with the other whilst other people are saying Religion has accepted it by thinking of it as a "Godly" action.


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## Narayan (Jul 23, 2011)

i'm getting bad vibes in this thread.


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## The Catboy (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> I feel your trying to insult me. First of all, this is one thing to let you know.
> 
> Open mindeness can lead to liberalism(if you are liberal, I still respect you though for being human, for all humans made in God's image have dignity, meaning I must respect you).
> 
> And, actually this topic is also a religious debate, and for being a scientist I thought you would have known that. And, yes the Big Bang theory does go towards Athiasm(Sorry if I spelled that wrong). In the Bible, it says he created all things as if spontanious. The Big Bang theory is an ignorant theory because it tries to prove either that God is not as all mighty as the universe(which doesn't make sense because he did create the universe) or it tries to prove that God did not exist and that a huge explosion caused the universe to form.


Open mindedness do not lead to liberalism for starters. Liberals can (and often are) be just as close-minded as a conservative.

And I don't see how asking if you believe in Aliens be about religion?


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## cwstjdenobs (Jul 23, 2011)

I love a creationism argument as much if not more than the next guy, but really why can't we keep it out of a thread that will almost certainly rely on the big bang theory, evolutionary theory, cosmological evolution theory, heliocentric theory, chemical periodicity theory, nuclear theory etc...

Really if you want to talk about religion and science, or religion and the possibility of ETL, or just straight up creationism as tired an argument as that is, start up another topic. I'll join in. I'll probably argue with the people saying that these theories and religion are not mutually exclusive. If your interpretation of your scripture says there can't be any life outside of this planet, or even if it just says intelligent life can't exist on other worlds, then apart from saying "No, these are my reasons, the conversation about this is in this thread [link]." to the OP's question you don't really have anything to add to the thread apart from derailing it into a theist/atheist argument which it isn't.


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## spinal_cord (Jul 23, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> And I don't see how asking if you believe in Aliens be about religion?



Because a lot of religious people believe that because their holy book does not explicitly say in black and white that there definitely are aliens, then it is impossible that they are real. No where in the bible for example, does it say there is *no* life on other planets, it just doesn't mention them.


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## Magmorph (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Yes some cases went without outside influence(If you learned the history of World War II, you would understand).
> Nothing in Nazi Germany happened without outside influence. You seem to have a view that Christianity is inherently moral. They allowed churches in Nazi Germany.
> 
> 
> ...


What evidence do you have against the Big Bang theory besides the Bible? The Bible has shown time and time again that it is not an accurate source of scientific information.


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## KingdomBlade (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Psyfira said:
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Oh.. my.. fuck. Your argument fails. On so many levels.

According to you: Atheism, liberalism, evolution, Darwinism, Physics, Science, Big Bang Theory, Behavioral Science, are all wrong. Your entire argument is based on the notion that all of these are wrong. Which they are not.

So apparently, atheism is wrong? And every single scientific theory that mildly contradicts against the literal interpretation of God is wrong? So what you're saying is, that "God" couldn't have just been the one that made the Big Bang or something? That seems perfectly plausible to me even though I don't really believe in it.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

I can really feel that there are some athiests on this thread(no offense). So, since people discriminate the Christian religion so much, might as well not most on this topic anymore.

Edit: AND if people read my post, I said Open Mindeness CAN lead to liberalism. People are always putting words in my mouth...


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## Narayan (Jul 23, 2011)

just like how you discriminate science theories.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

Narayan said:
			
		

> just like how you discriminate science theories.


When did I ever discriminate the Scientific Theories?

All I said was they do, in fact, try to disprove that God does not exist. If you have looked in detail into the Big Bang theory, it states that scientists have only certain theories about how the Universe was born, but in all the theories, none of them concluded that God was the origin of the Universe, or the creator of the Universe.

I mean, do you have a document, or have seen one, that has the idea that God created the Universe?(related to the Big Band theory)


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## Deleted_171835 (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Narayan said:
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The Big Bang Theory seeks to explain what happened right after the origin of the universe.

It doesn't try to explain the _*origin of the universe*_ itself.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> RoyalCardMan said:
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Please, read my posts carefully for once. I said have you seen a Big Bang document or read one that has the THEORY of the conclusion that God did create the Universe.

Please, take a moment to read.

And, yes it does seek to find the origin. If you look into more detail about the Big Bang theory, you would have understood my evidence.


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## KingdomBlade (Jul 23, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> I can really feel that there are some athiests on this thread(no offense). So, since people discriminate the Christian religion so much, might as well not most on this topic anymore.
> 
> Edit: AND if people read my post, I said Open Mindeness CAN lead to liberalism. People are always putting words in my mouth...


Uh, and if I'm atheist? Is that supposed to be insulting or something?

And so what if Open Mindedness can lead to liberalism? Is there a problem with that?

Also, I agree with Soul's post.


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## Narayan (Jul 23, 2011)

woot i though you wasn't gonna post anymore. 

but yes. you're setting your roots deep into religion. 
i didn't really want to join the argument. but you're just a die hard god fan. (yes i just said that).
you try to disprove all of other theories because they don't have god in them.

i'm not saying believing in god is wrong. but you're too much.


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## RoyalCardMan (Jul 23, 2011)

KingdomBlade said:
			
		

> RoyalCardMan said:
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No, it was not meant to be insulting. I was only concluding that we have different point of views.

Yes and no, on that question. Sometimes, open-mindeness can lead to questioning moral and even trying to change it.

That is fine that you agree with Soul.


EDIT: STOP SNEAKING POSTS!

Religion and Science are a mix. How is it to much? I am only trying to prove that some things that scientists say are more ignorance than fact.

What ever you meant, I don't know how to respond.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't get it.
How the f*ck did a simple question lead to this.
Mods please lock.


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## Shinigami357 (Jul 23, 2011)

Wow... What retardedness is this? Seriously?


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## Depravo (Jul 23, 2011)

This thread was supposed to be about space aliens - *NOT* Hitler or Christian dogma.

/thread


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