# How important is it for a console to be "Hackable"



## SlyGuy (Jul 9, 2007)

This question really stems from the current console war where XBOX360 and Wii can be modded whereas the PS3 cannot(though don't limit your response to just this situation; consider any current or future console or handheld).


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## .TakaM (Jul 9, 2007)

it depends if the console is good enough without being hacked.

regular xbox doesn't interest me, but when modded, it's a great console.


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## kernelPANIC (Jul 9, 2007)

Considering how much time I spend playing games now, If I were to keep playing for as long as I'm now, I'd require a moddable console.
It has become a major factor in my next gen purchases (so far I'm waiting for a fully compatible, multi-region Wii chip, and I'm a little confused about the 360. Dunno if it's fully hackable now or if it will be with future firmwares... Anyone care to shed some light my way? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


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## SlyGuy (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(kernelPANIC @ Jul 9 2007 said:


> Considering how much time I spend playing games now, If I were to keep playing for as long as I'm now, I'd require a moddable console.
> It has become a major factor in my next gen purchases (so far I'm waiting for a fully compatible, multi-region Wii chip, and I'm a little confused about the 360. Dunno if it's fully hackable now or if it will be with future firmwares... Anyone care to shed some light my way?
> 
> 
> ...


As far as I know, it has been hacked, but you need to have a certain type of dvd drive.  You can either use a chip (hard mod) or a firmware replacement (soft mod).  However, I'm not buying an XBOX 360 until they change their manufacturing process so the failure rate is somethine MUCH more acceptable!


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## OSW (Jul 10, 2007)

pretty much essential for me.

not just for backup purposes, homebrew can be a wonderful thing.


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## deathfisaro (Jul 10, 2007)

PS3 doesn't have whole lot of titles atm. Buying all of them won't hurt as much as buying all NDS games (That's what.. About 600 games excluding localized duplications?)
If PS3 can't be modded by Spring 08, it would be a problem. (Besides, unless you can afford PS3 AND bluray writer, you'll need to buy a bigger HDD to run images directly from HDD. There are videos around for PS3 ISO loader, but I haven't seen it float around, neither PS3 isos so I guess they're either fake or not released.


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## [M]artin (Jul 10, 2007)

I'm the biggest cheapass on the planet, and in this day and age, I wanna squeeze out the most I can when I put my money down for a mean-machine. As far as feeling any type of guilt... fuck it, I'd feel guilty if I threw away my hard earned cash for something *I KNEW* I could get for free (not to mention the feeling of stupidity and lack of common sense). I only buy consoles that are cracked.


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## kellyan95 (Jul 10, 2007)

I would rather have a modded Xbox than a PS3.


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## 4saken (Jul 10, 2007)

I share a similar view with [m]artin


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## deathfisaro (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(kellyan95 @ Jul 9 2007 said:


> I would rather have a modded Xbox than a PS3.



I will get modded 360 and PS3, just to play PS3 exclusives and play multi platform on modded 360


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## kellyan95 (Jul 10, 2007)

PC has the best graphics, and it's easier to get "free" games. Nothing can do what an Xbox can for the price (and even without the price)


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## SlyGuy (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(deathfisaro @ Jul 9 2007 said:


> QUOTE(kellyan95 @ Jul 9 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > I would rather have a modded Xbox than a PS3.
> ...



The problem with a PS3 is that even when it is cracked (I say when and not if because we all know how smart hackers are!) BD-R media is VERY expensive.  We're talking about CAD$15 a disc!  I would hate to have a disc-write error with that kind of cost!  Not to mention that if PS3 developpers decide to use all that extra space instead of compressing / conserving, it's going to be hell to download and store those files!


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## ozzyzak (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE([M said:
			
		

> artin @ Jul 9 2007, 08:27 PM)]I'm the biggest cheapass on the planet, and in this day and age, I wanna squeeze out the most I can when I put my money down for a mean-machine. As far as feeling any type of guilt... fuck it, I'd feel guilty if I threw away my hard earned cash for something *I KNEW* I could get for free (not to mention the feeling of stupidity and lack of common sense). I only buy consoles that are cracked.



You'd feel stupid and lacking common sense for putting your hard earned cash toward someone else's hard work?  I wish I could share that same sentiment.  How is it in crazy land?


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## deathfisaro (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(GamerGuyDude @ Jul 9 2007 said:


> The problem with a PS3 is that even when it is cracked (I say when and not if because we all know how smart hackers are!) BD-R media is VERY expensive.Â We're talking about CAD$15 a disc!Â I would hate to have a disc-write error with that kind of cost!Â Not to mention that if PS3 developpers decide to use all that extra space instead of compressing / conserving, it's going to be hell to download and store those files!



Yes I'm aware of that. As I mentioned in my second previous post, it's more likely that the ISO can be loaded directly from HDD (Since it's replacable at will, buying 2 of 250GB and 1 of 160GB SATA2 HDD -2.5" laptop HDDs- should serve better than bluray writer. Price of those 3 HDDs with 660GB total and bluray writer is about the same ~US$500) It could be a hassle to replace HDDs so often, but it's cost efficient (you can install it on your laptop for an upgrade or easily sell to laptop owners)

And one more thing, I searched for BD writers and only thing I find is 2X write speed on both BD-R and BD-RE.
That is 9MB/s and 45 minutes per 25GB (A full disk) That so blows man.... either HDD ISO or BD backup, it sure is time and money consuming to run a hacked PS3. If you bust 2 BDs while writing, you're even with buying legit (But to mention you still have $500 bluray writer price to make up, you're not even until you burn 10 BDs without fail.).


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## [M]artin (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(ozzyzak @ Jul 10 2007 said:


> QUOTE([M) said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoa, I never said I wasn't putting any hard earned cash toward someone's else's hard work...

I give a generous portion to the producing company & developers of the actual console (for which without, pirated shit would be useless) and I also give money to developers of the devices and chips that allow the console to be hacked, not to mention the retailers of these devices and chips who receive a small profit for carrying those products. I'm pretty sure they all work hard too.

In the end, it comes down to your morals. I guess I grew up in Crazy Land, so my morals are a little different then everyone else's on this site (have you checked what site you're on, by the way?). 

In these cases, I don't think with my head, I think with my wallet.


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## ozzyzak (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE([M said:
			
		

> artin @ Jul 9 2007, 09:43 PM)]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you know what I'm talking about.  I was referring to game developers.  Yes, I have checked what site I'm on, and I also know that not everyone on here pirates everything.  I use this site to read about new games coming out and to try them before I buy.  I won't pretend to be the golden child that pays for everything, but I do support the developers as often as I can.


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## TheStump (Jul 10, 2007)

I would rather give money directly to the dev's of the games.

Look at what steam is doing. Why do you think its cheaper to buy game online rather than store bought. I'd rather my money going to dev's then say, E.B games.

Let look at it this way, more and more people are downloading games from the net, because its more accessible (and free).
Then lets say alot of people still feel 'guilty' about this pirating, well why dont you, instead of buying from EB, pirate the game and send some money directly to the devs.

This (i hope), will be the revolution of games.  Just look at what Microsoft, Nintendo and Playstation are all doing...DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT.

the benefits of this method of purchasing games are much great for the consumer and the dev's.
we have;
-no region issues
-cheaper games
-hopefully (considering what we are used to paying for games) dev's get more money
-easier access.

Well i personally dont feel that 'guilty'.  Sure some days you feel like games deserve your money, but if we bought every crap (no pointing and fingers) game released from say, ubisoft or EA, this hope of getting more downloadable content much like pirating would take lot longer.
I'm not saying this 'dream' justifies' stealing games, but it sure as hell makes me feel less 'guilty'.

on an end note, look at what Mac has done with the ipod.


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## ozzyzak (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(TheStump @ Jul 9 2007 said:


> I would rather give money directly to the dev's of the games.
> 
> Look at what steam is doing. Why do you think its cheaper to buy game online rather than store bought. I'd rather my money going to dev's then say, E.B games.
> 
> ...




Good post, I agree with everything said here, though I have to ask.  Do you REALLY think that if we were able to buy direct from the developers that we would all of a sudden stop downloading freely?  I doubt it.  People always use that to say that if they could give money right to the creators they would, but I'm not sure I buy it for the most part.


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## TheStump (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(ozzyzak @ Jul 10 2007 said:


> Good post, I agree with everything said here, though I have to ask.Â Do you REALLY think that if we were able to buy direct from the developers that we would all of a sudden stop downloading freely?Â I doubt it.Â People always use that to say that if they could give money right to the creators they would, but I'm not sure I buy it for the most part.



It's sure as hell is a good start.  Well lets looks at it this way, people fund torrent sites with paypal money.


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## SlyGuy (Jul 10, 2007)

QUOTE(deathfisaro @ Jul 9 2007 said:


> QUOTE(GamerGuyDude @ Jul 9 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with a PS3 is that even when it is cracked (I say when and not if because we all know how smart hackers are!) BD-R media is VERY expensive.  We're talking about CAD$15 a disc!  I would hate to have a disc-write error with that kind of cost!  Not to mention that if PS3 developpers decide to use all that extra space instead of compressing / conserving, it's going to be hell to download and store those files!
> ...



I'm not so sure that buying more and more HD is the cheapest way to go, but the HDD loading does sound like a good idea.  Perhaps there will be a way to split games onto multiple DVDs (or Dual-layer DVDs) and then load them onto the HDD when you want to play them.  That way you could keep your most used games on your large HDD and then swap out the ones you don't play that often.  If the loading process only took about 5 minutes, it would be a good trade-off, I think.


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## iza (Jul 10, 2007)

i like my consoles to be hackable... but it's not a huge decision maker for me. i still have an unmodded 360 cuz i love live 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... course lately my new dreamcast has kept me busy busy


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## deathfisaro (Jul 10, 2007)

I use pirated games as a demo. First of all it's hard to find demos of NDS games unless you have Nintendo outlet nearby, other game demos (on PC or consoles) are inferior to the actual game which may mislead to judging the game not worth buying. 

There are so many DS games I bought, and I don't feel guilty for playing DS games on R4 because there are like 550 games that don't deserve to be purchased. (taking out all the duplicates) The ones that desserve the credit, I buy them. I even found Pokemon D/P was not up to my expectations, GBA ones would get better reviews from me.

Haven't found any decent game to buy for PC for a long time (Last thing was Titan Quest) So don't bother.

Next gen consoles offer online demo download, as I said they're to some extent inferior to the actual game. I could rent the game and try it out if I don't have modded console.

And TheStump's idea is great, except that it feels strange to send them money and say "Your game is great, accept this" But I'm willing to do that if I can track down devs paypal account.


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## jimmy j (Jul 12, 2007)

I like TheStumps donation idea too. I own a few pirated 360 games and while I wouldn't go out and pay £40 for the retail version I would definitely consider donating £5-£10 to the devs. I'm sure there are a lot of modders who would agree with me too.

Out of curiosity, exactly how much does a developer receive on every game purchased?


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## deathfisaro (Jul 12, 2007)

QUOTE(jimmy j @ Jul 11 2007 said:


> Out of curiosity, exactly how much does a developer receive on every game purchased?



I believe they get paid their basic salary, and incentives come when the units sold is over certain number. I believe the programmers working for big sized game companies (say, MS games, EA, and so many more) must have some sort of bottom line, so programmers are not discouraged to try out new things.

Well, retailers eat a bit, game company eats a bit, production cost and shipping or whatever, if what's left is distributed among all project members, not much per person I guess.


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## jimmy j (Jul 12, 2007)

QUOTE(deathfisaro @ Jul 12 2007 said:


> QUOTE(jimmy j @ Jul 11 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Out of curiosity, exactly how much does a developer receive on every game purchased?
> ...



Sorry, when I said developer I meant the actual development studio (eg. reflections, bizarre creations, bungie etc). What sort of percentage would they be looking at for every game sold?

I'm just wondering if Bizarre Creations would make more money if I bought PGR4 retail or if I downloaded it and gave them a £5 donation


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## SlyGuy (Jul 23, 2007)

Bump


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## thebigboss14 (Jul 11, 2009)

Well the only one I know has not been fully unhackable is the PSP but I still don't know why.


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## sconethief (Jul 13, 2009)

the PSP 3000 has been hacked


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## da_head (Jul 13, 2009)

thebigboss14 said:
			
		

> Well the only one I know has not been fully unhackable is the PSP but I still don't know why.


uh the psp can easily be hacked...

u must be thinking of the ps3?

o and personally, i don't care for console's to be hackable or not. the only one i play is xbox and that's purely for the multiplayer experience. all the other single player games u can get for it, i pirate with my pc.


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## anaxs (Jul 13, 2009)

its not that big of a deal tho

the wii is great being hacked and that matters because all nintendo systems are the best
all tho ps3 is a great and powerful system and the games are werth buying but it would be great to run backups on that and homebrew


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## Hop2089 (Jul 13, 2009)

Not really important since the only hacking required is for playing retro games and nothing else.


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## Hideki-kun (Jul 13, 2009)

Not really a factor for me, but if it is hackable it's a plus.


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## Sstew (Jul 13, 2009)

It's not important, just a bonus if it is, Amazed at how many "Essential" answers there is though


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## Elritha (Jul 13, 2009)

If it's easy to hack then I'll do it. I don't like being restricted when it comes to consoles, I do like my homebrew. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Probably why I prefer pc gaming overall with mods and such.


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## Highseraphime (Jul 13, 2009)

I think since the PSP is hackable there is no handheld that can match it, unless your ds has a very good flash cart.
but some consoles have fail safes and guards, we know how xbox responds to hacking , here comes the BANHAMMER, and ive already seen warnings on my wii about "tampering" with the console.

how about saying that its important to have your psp hacked if you have one, but if you have another console "Eh, fohget-a-bout it"


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## Trulen (Jul 17, 2009)

I've been spoiled by pirating.

If I own it, it must be hackable.



BUT THIS DARN'D PS3.
CURSE YOU, YOU BLACK BEAUTY.

I've been eyeing Battlefeild Bad Company.  
It's like, 18 bucks on Amazon.  I enjoyed the demo!  


But yeah there's linux and whatnot for the ps3.  
But that's useless.  I have my computer hooked up to my TV.  And a joypad.


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## Satangel (Jul 17, 2009)

Essential for me. I wouldn't have bought my DS Lite if I didn't know there were flashcards.


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## Cermage (Jul 17, 2009)

essential imo. its whats keeping me from buying a ps3. i know its bad but i'm not exactly prepared to fork out 80-120 for new games.


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## Mr.Mysterio (Jul 17, 2009)

Essential for me too. I only buy consoles that are hackable.
Games and Software just cost too much where I live.Eg:Spider Man 3(PS3 USED-Bad Condition):150$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



What's the use of buying a gaming console if you cant play games on it???
I know I could buy games online but since I don't have a credit card,I would have to rely on my father for the card.And he says I play too much games already.(IMO playing games for 1.5-3 hours isnt that long).


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## Satangel (Jul 17, 2009)

Mr.Mysterio said:
			
		

> Essential for me too. I only buy consoles that are hackable.
> Games and Software just cost too much where I live.Eg:Spider Man 3(PS3 brand new):150$
> 
> 
> ...



150$? Well, living in Qatar has a price ofcourse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



But that is seriously way too much, suits you right to pirate


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## tj_cool (Jul 17, 2009)

Somewhat important.

I bought a wii and DS way before i knew they could be hacked. But when I found out it was a huge bonus


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## Lametta (Jul 17, 2009)

For me it's essential, no need to say more


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## CyberFish (Jul 18, 2009)

Not a big deal for me at all. If I can, Ill do it and most likely regret doing it later. At least in the Wii's case. 

MGS 4 alone was worth the admission to PS3 IMO.


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## Mr.Mysterio (Jul 18, 2009)

Satangel said:
			
		

> 150$? Well, living in Qatar has a price ofcourse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True,Qatar's one of the richest countries in the world and all but that doesn't make it right to sell crappy used games for way more than the original price.I could get a Wii with Motion Plus for the same amount of money I would be paying for a new PS3 game  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I envy you guys in the US/Europe.

I pirate most of the DS games but that doesn't bother the authorities here because they think that the DS cant be hacked and only a minority own DS Lites.


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## triassic911 (Jul 18, 2009)

I only buy things that are hackable. No hacks = no purchase. I'm still waiting on the ps3 and the DSi.


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## MicShadow (Jul 19, 2009)

I only brought the DS for the fact flashcards existed for it.

Brought the Wii, well because i liked it. The hacking has gave it new life though


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## tal32123 (Jul 20, 2009)

i usually only buy handhelds and that is a must for all handhelds. for consoles it is also a must too though.


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## Ryufushichou (Jul 20, 2009)

If a console is hackable then i consider hacking it, i bought the wii before i knew anything and i have the PS3 a console that even if it becomes hackable i plan on leaving alone. Its the enjoyment i get out of playing it that matters to me.

- Blinded_fate


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## Saywhatjj4 (Jul 20, 2009)

i consider it Somewhat Important


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## hackermatt1337 (Jul 21, 2009)

i won't buy a system anymore unless i can modd it somehow. one, because my ds can emulat pretty much, most of the systems i would ever want to play, and also, i hate paying for gamez, majoity of public might do it, but i don't liek doing it, so if it won't run backups i won't ever buy it. although, my wii can emulate snes gamez ( use of the hbc XD ) but i have a snes, which is wat i grew up playing, so i'm goin to get something called a ufo super drive pro 3, which is basicaly a flashkart for the snes, it playz backups through the use of floppyz, i'm going to get it just for teh lulz, and modding is leik a firey passion that burns ever so deeply in my heart, so it wouldn't be fun not modding any of my oldn systems


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## OtakuGamerZ (Jul 21, 2009)

The main reason I hacked something besides my wii(my main emulator). Is the stores that sell games don't bother to put new games up the day they come out unless there famous (halo and guitar hero), so I end up waiting an extra week for The World Ends With You and Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor.


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## hackermatt1337 (Jul 21, 2009)

I LOVE HARUHI SUZUMIYA XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


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## pitoui (Jul 26, 2009)

It is pretty important for me, although I did buy a Wii on launch day, and also have a PS3 and I love it.
My xbox 360 hasn't had much attention lately, I finished the missions on prototype and never went back to it. I buy my PS3 games off ebay or from online shops (from overseas of course).


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## emupaul (Jul 26, 2009)

When i bought my Wii I only got it because I knew eventually Homebrew would make its way to it and it did and did so very well.


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## air2004 (Jul 26, 2009)

from now I want hackable , even if I cant make it play back ups , I like being able to do shit to that makes it better


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## Synchromatic (Jul 26, 2009)

If it's hackable, I'll hack it. But I'm not gonna buy things just because I can hack it.


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## wolffangalchemist (Jul 31, 2009)

i buy the consoles i like hacking is always a welcome bonus though homebrew and custom firmwares and other feature the console or hand held doesn't have stand alone.
lets face it not everyone has money to spend $60 or $70 bucks a game in the shitty state the current global economy is in, and it's probably going to get worse before it get better.
yes some consider it wrong or bad but it's at times like these things like that happen.
you didn't see piracy this bad on older handhelds and consoles, though it's always been there it's more obvious and rampant now that more people are looking for ways to save money, so modded or altered devices that enable playing copied games or software are welcome ideals to most and no one really thinks about the legality/morality of it.
all though in the end most people will still buy most games at least on next gen consoles which i'm sure will have some kind of nearly uncrackable operation scheme(not to say that some won't be hacked) and as the global economy gets better and more ppl have extra money to spend.


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## Private|Par (Aug 9, 2009)

360 = No piracy. You can try it, but if you want to harness the 90% of your console that's online.. Yeah.
If you try to pirate and go on XBL, prepare to be caught. My friend was.

Back to the conversation at large, it's stupid to buy something based on the fact that you can hack it. I'd like someone to explain their thought process to me. Mine was, "Oh, I like the games on the 360, and I like Live." Not, "Oh, I enjoy the games. I guess I'll just not pay for them." Great way to show your enthusiasm. The only reason I do that with the DS is because the games are ridiculously overpriced here.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Aug 9, 2009)

I find it rather important, not because I can be a cheapass and run pirated games, but because of the limitless potential homebrew may grant.

One of the reasons why I got a PSP in the first place is because it's hackable, allowing me to run all sorts of homebrew programs like emulators. Likewise, my DS would be rotting somewhere had it not been able to play music as well as movies through flashcarts.


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## clegion (Aug 10, 2009)

depends where i am living, back in indonesia my console has to be pirated, since there are almost no legal copy even if they were they were overpriced prinny game $ 100 (wtf), but now i am in oz it's just matter of is it available (e.g dissidia and such) if it isn't available i will still pirate


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## DeMoN (Aug 11, 2009)

Not important at all.  If you ever bought a console at launch, then you didn't care about it either.


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## deathfisaro (Aug 11, 2009)

I think having a "hackable" console frees you up to buy non-hackable console as well.

It was big enough of a merit to make me buy a 360.

MS is also very soft on pirates. They don't really ban people, at least not updating firmware for 2 years and connecting to Live while playing backups was not enough to receive a ban. 
I guess you'll have to mess up big time to get a ban. Haven't heard of/met many people who got banned since 2007 except people who played GOW2 review copy and/or played a few other leaked games early online which were clearly asking for a ban.


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