# New PS4 model "neo"; what the PS4k rumours amounted to



## zoogie (Apr 19, 2016)

So it's like a PS4i.
or New PS4. 

This was kinda tolerable with handhelds but with $400 consoles, yik.
If PSVR really takes off, maybe this will be worth it. Or at least worth $800.


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## RustInPeace (Apr 19, 2016)

That picture cracked me up.


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## TrashyClassy (Apr 19, 2016)

PS4 512k


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## Prans (Apr 19, 2016)

A much-needed reflection on the current state of video game consoles. Will the PS4.5K pave the way for future consoles and their inevitable, much needed upgrades?


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## mightymuffy (Apr 19, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Whether we will see the return of 4 player split screen co-op now everybody can have their own 1080p space is also unknown, we can but hope.



Haha, this tickled my [furry] teeth and no mistake - as did the 120Hz comment, no way on this fukkin earth could any PS4 upgrade achieve this kind of performance at such resolutions... Sony themselves, by comparatively playing this down, also know this..... Really we're talking 4k media player here, with perhaps future PS4 games benefiting with improved frame rates... which'll do me , but let's not get too excited here.
Realistically you'd need an entirely new console for 4k gaming.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

I knew you'd post a silly picture to go with NEO. I don't like the "PC" analogy for a variety of reasons I won't get into here, as we'd be risking a rant about how every console ever was a derrivative of an earlier PC/workstation design. 

"Compute Units" amount to GPU cores, more or less. Increasing their number by a 100% and running the GPU at a faster clockspeed equals over twice the horsepower, so I wouldn't call the change "modest", really. As for the CPU frequency and RAM latency changes, they're a nice addition, but neither was really the system's bottleneck, so they're there for bragging rights - these days games are all about the GPU, and that's been improved significantly in the proposed specs sheet.

As for upgraded consoles, wouldn't the DSi or the New 3DS qualify, Fast? Both are significant upgrades of the original that don't break compatibility.

All in all, I think this move is meant to cement Sony's domination this gen, as we already know that there are no planned XBO upgrades coming. They probably also want to shove a porcupine down Nintendo's pants since their NX was already announced to be capable of "900p @ 60FPS" on average - they want to match that and then some, and NEO seems to be doing just that and more. Then there's Morpheus, of course - VR takes quite a bit of computing power and NEO might be just what the system needs to boost the experience from "average" to "exceptional". I guess time will tell - for now I'm quite excited for this.

*Cough cough* "I know kung fu."


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## migles (Apr 19, 2016)

zoogie said:


> So it's like a PS4i.
> or New PS4.
> 
> This was kinda tolerable with handhelds but with $400 consoles, yik.
> If PSVR really takes off, maybe this will be worth it. Or at least worth $800.



PS4 U
sega 32x sony 4k


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

mightymuffy said:


> Haha, this tickled my [furry] teeth and no mistake - as did the 120Hz comment, no way on this fukkin earth could any PS4 upgrade achieve this kind of performance at such resolutions... Sony themselves, by comparatively playing this down, also know this..... Really we're talking 4k media player here, with perhaps future PS4 games benefiting with improved frame rates... which'll do me , but let's not get too excited here.
> Realistically you'd need an entirely new console for 4k gaming.


I don't see a reason why the system couldn't reach 4K on with the proposed specs. The original PS4 GPU reaches the performance of 1.84 TFLOPS, since NEO is supposed to double the CU's and increase the clock speed, you can expect 3.68 TFLOPS (a little over a GF 970 GTX which scores 3,49 TFLOPS) at the very least, which is formidable considering the fact that consoles use shortened API's. It's not going to be super-duper ultra-detailed 4K at 60FPS, but I can see less complex games running at native 4K.


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## Vanth88 (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm not sure how everyone else feels about this but it kind of bothers me that they've decided to make another revision so soon. This isn't like your typical revision either as we're talking about a moderate upgrade for another $400. It would have made more sense if this was a PS5, and it was coming out in a few more years.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

Vanth88 said:


> I'm not sure how everyone else feels about this but it kind of bothers me that they've decided to make another revision so soon. This isn't like your typical revision either as we're talking about a moderate upgrade for another $400. It would have made more sense if this was a PS5, and it was coming out in a few more years.


To be fair, it's been 3 years - how long did you expect them to hold off? As long as it doesn't break compatibility, I'm game for it, especially since I can trade my old PS4 towards it which will significantly decrease the expense.


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## migles (Apr 19, 2016)

migles said:


> PS4 U
> sega 32x sony 4k





Vanth88 said:


> I'm not sure how everyone else feels about this but it kind of bothers me that they've decided to make another revision so soon. This isn't like your typical revision either as we're talking about a moderate upgrade for another $400. It would have made more sense if this was a PS5, and it was coming out in a few more years.


ho i forgot...  PS4S (that's a S not a five)
and later PS4C and PS4+

anyway, to answer your concern.. at this time they would  give you a slim model... (the ps4 will make 3 years this year)
the psp had some upgrades (extra memory and video output) i know the value we are talking is a lot (ps4 costs 400) but come on.. we got a new mac\iphone or samsung phone every 6 months and they usually cost more than 400 bucks
an upgraded ps4 model after 3 years it's ok...
it's not something new, almost every console had revisions and they tend to take away something or\and give you something

i always wait until the next gen comes out btw, to choose the better revision at a great price.. yes i always play games that were released like 2 or 4+ years ago, but since i am not a millionair.. and i don't go to school anymore and get social pressure to play new released games, i am enjoying le old games


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## leonmagnus99 (Apr 19, 2016)

i love the picture you posted LOL , it is sad to see Sony taking the direction of Microsoft.

i own the ps4, and it feels almost as a PC to me, needing to extract the content of every game is kind of a hassle.
the console itself is fantastic, but i do not like to think they are already making a new console after roughly 3 years of the ps4's release..? or is it more than 3.

even if 4, it would be too early, but i think maybe it is a ps4k player , if it gets exclusive games like (with the n3ds which has only 1-2 exclusives) well.. then there might be some people going mad over it.

but overall i am not really mad over it or anything, but i do think it is way too early for a next gen Sony console, so i do hope that the extra features of the so called ps4.5 are minimal compared to the current ps4.


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## Vanth88 (Apr 19, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> To be fair, it's been 3 years - how long did you expect them to hold off? As long as it doesn't break compatibility, I'm game for it, especially since I can trade my old PS4 towards it which will significantly decrease the expense.



Considering the second revision came out several months ago? At least 2 more years. Like I said this isn't like a typical revision and we're not talking about a smaller CPU here. Not only that but this isn't a PC, and it's not a handheld. It's a console and what worries me is that Sony's decided the current hardware isn't good enough and instead of working around current hardware limitations they'll just release newer hardware.

Not that this really concerns me I mean I could sell my Destiny PS4 and buy the newer revision but... it just leaves me with this sour taste in my mouth. I just bought the PS4, now the entire system's inferior? I'd rather see them improve the OS instead of focusing on 4k.

With all that being said I'm calling it... they'll start advertising games with smoother frame rates that current models can't achieve. I kind of have this feeling it'll launch around FF15's release and we'll see videos of the game running at 30-60FPS (no telling). It's dastardly, it's evil, it's Sony.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2016)

To think that I used to have that very same computer back then. Oh lord, the nostalgia LOL


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## hyprskllz (Apr 19, 2016)

Playstation VR: Morpheus
PS4.5: Neo
Maybe there'll be a Trinity?


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## sarkwalvein (Apr 19, 2016)

hyprskllz said:


> Playstation VR: Morpheus
> PS4.5: Neo
> Maybe there'll be a Trinity?


Well, perhaps they will also rename the Playstation Network to "The (SONY) Matrix".


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## mightymuffy (Apr 19, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see a reason why the system couldn't reach 4K on with the proposed specs. The original PS4 GPU reaches the performance of 1.84 TFLOPS, since NEO is supposed to double the CU's and increase the clock speed, you can expect 3.68 TFLOPS (a little over a GF 970 GTX which scores 3,49 TFLOPS) at the very least, which is formidable considering the fact that consoles use shortened API's. It's not going to be super-duper ultra-detailed 4K at 60FPS, but I can see less complex games running at native 4K.


Yeah my thoughts too... forgot to post that actually - we're probably gonna see a Super Stardust 4K soon  - your figures are a bit optimistic though, and they've not yet gone into detail about how much faster that memory is, 8GB GDDR5 won't be able to shove anywhere near enough data through fast enough for 4K gaming, so 'slightly improved' raises a few questions.

Indie titles et al at 4k, yep I'll give you that one, but blockbuster AAA, providing the quality of visuals most PS4 will expect, but at 4k resolution? I don't think so... and I've actually got a 970 GTX, good card but I wouldn't expect that to run top PC titles at 4k either.
Suppose the biggest question is do we really NEED 4k anyway? Many PS4 games aren't touching 1080p/60fps - I'd much rather they hit this figure and use an upscaler myself. Or perhaps go for the sweet spot of 1440p (upscaling that if needed for the "4k") - I'd be much more interested if they were going for that instead...


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## Xuman (Apr 19, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I knew you'd post a silly picture to go with NEO. I don't like the "PC" analogy for a variety of reasons I won't get into here, as we'd be risking a rant about how every console ever was a derrivative of an earlier PC/workstation design.
> 
> "Compute Units" amount to GPU cores, more or less. Increasing their number by a 100% and running the GPU at a faster clockspeed equals over twice the horsepower, so I wouldn't call the change "modest", really. As for the CPU frequency and RAM latency changes, they're a nice addition, but neither was really the system's bottleneck, so they're there for bragging rights - these days games are all about the GPU, and that's been improved significantly in the proposed specs sheet.
> 
> ...




Whats up with sony and their fascination with the matrix?

Edit: Dammit someone beat me to it


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## BORTZ (Apr 19, 2016)

Criteria for purchase
-Must come in white
-PS3 onboard backwards compat from disks/download from PSN (none of this PSNow shiz)


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## kumikochan (Apr 19, 2016)

leonmagnus99 said:


> i love the picture you posted LOL , it is sad to see Sony taking the direction of Microsoft.
> 
> i own the ps4, and it feels almost as a PC to me, needing to extract the content of every game is kind of a hassle.
> the console itself is fantastic, but i do not like to think they are already making a new console after roughly 3 years of the ps4's release..? or is it more than 3.
> ...


How so is Sony taking the same decision as Microsoft. I don't see Microsoft releasing an upgrade, phil spencer just spoke out a month ago it would be a stupid mistake for them to do so. So what you're saying doesn't make sense at all.


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## MetroidOtherS (Apr 19, 2016)

The rumors state it wont be able to render games in 4k but only upscale them as it is impossible for a system with the form factor of a ps4 to render a game in 4k, (pretty obvious) but its said to have features akin to the new 3ds where games will have a boost in fidelity on the ps4.5 but still be able to run on the original ps4. So yeah no 1080p four player split screen.
That said if i ever get a 4k tv in the future ill prob pick up a ps4.5


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## chartube12 (Apr 19, 2016)

I wouldn't be surprised if the 4.5 has a SoC of the ps1/2 and psp/vita inside. Making it able to play the entire Playstation library minus the ps3's.

Hell maybe the 4.5 will be similar to a micro PC tower and have a slot for a ps3 card. The card sold separately for like 100 would have the ps3's cell processor.


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## gamesquest1 (Apr 19, 2016)

i will just wait another year for the ps4c becuase i like cheap colourful plastic shells, i wonder how long before they start saying "oh well regular PS4 users only get multiplayer mode, you need the PS4+ to get the full game" RIP console generations i think from this points its going to be more of a smear of gradual updates like the iphones


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## RaMon90 (Apr 19, 2016)

What about the old ps4? I bought it some months ago, 399 euro wasted? If its true about this new ps4 then i will only buy if they get the old one for 299 euro


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## Tom Bombadildo (Apr 19, 2016)

As long as I can trade in my current PS4 to take a significant chunk out of the price, I'm game. And it has to keep supporting faceplates so I can keep my Bloodborne bae one


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## p1ngpong (Apr 19, 2016)

I have been deliberately avoiding adopting anything in 4k just because it seems that it is a temporary standard that could easily be defunct at any time. There doesn't seem to be a consensus regarding what ultra HD standard people will stick with, we have been hearing about 5k, 6, and 8k stuff already. Maybe this will nail down 4k as a standard for the foreseeable future if enough people adopt but this is a seriously risky move considering the PS4 has a solid and huge userbase already. We will get the promises that this will not replace the original PS4 but you just know at some point we will have "PS Neo" only titles and I am betting it will be sooner than later considering the consoles are already having a hard time even doing full 1080p 60fps on a lot of games. It would be ironic but I can really see a point where Sonys "4K" PS4 might actually have a best use as just a true 1080p machine rather than a 4K one.


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## mightymuffy (Apr 19, 2016)

kumikochan said:


> How so is Sony taking the same decision as Microsoft. I don't see Microsoft releasing an upgrade, phil spencer just spoke out a month ago it would be a stupid mistake for them to do so. So what you're saying doesn't make sense at all.


He was the first to talk about console upgrading actually, with his 'in thing' being he wants 'forward compatibility.' Sony then first talked about 'PS4.5/4K' about a week later, reception was mixed, and Phil Spencer made that comment, as if to say we'd taken his earlier comments out of context. In other words he did a Sony, on Sony! Probably gonna smack him in the face now the rumours have more weight (and reception isn't quite as pessimistic). Either way I'd put a tenner on MS planning exactly the same thing..


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## dubbz82 (Apr 19, 2016)

chartube12 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the 4.5 has a SoC of the ps1/2 and psp/vita inside. Making it able to play the entire Playstation library minus the ps3's



Why though? Software based emulation is certainly possible for PSP and ps1...ps2 as well, if they sank a little bit of time into optimizing


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## Deleted member 370671 (Apr 19, 2016)

dubbz82 said:


> Why though? Software based emulation is certainly possible for PSP and ps1...ps2 as well, if they sank a little bit of time into optimizing


Well, nothing is better than some 100% accurate emulation 
And tbh I doubt the PS2 can be emulated accurately enough. Emulators require a lot of pure power (having plenty of cores doesn't help much) and 2.1 GHz (admitting the specs are true) is not that much.


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2016)

I would buy one if it can out put two or three seperate 1080p screen, vr capable and ps3 compatible.


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## GuyInDogSuit (Apr 19, 2016)

Comparing the PS4/4K to a PC is silly. For less than that price tag, I got a PC that can run PS4 ports like Fallout 4 and The Witcher 3 with no issues.


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## Joe88 (Apr 19, 2016)

already got one



Spoiler


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## FAST6191 (Apr 19, 2016)

Glad the old computer I had sitting in the pile could provide a smile before it gets stripped for wire and a cover for something. That said it is tiny so I might consider doing something real with it if I is a sensible motherboard form factor inside it. Bets on I forget how nasty old computers are and slice myself to ribbons.



Xuman said:


> Whats up with sony and their fascination with the matrix?
> 
> Edit: Dammit someone beat me to it


Someone? Basically everybody had made that joke and was sorry for it in the sources, let alone by the time I got around to posting something. It was half the reason I busted out the table and marble spinning thing.



Foxi4 said:


> As for upgraded consoles, wouldn't the DSi or the New 3DS qualify, Fast? Both are significant upgrades of the original that don't break compatibility.



Just to provide some symmetry from last time this came up I will call the dsi a handheld and not a console, again despite probably arguing the opposite the last time around. Also just because they failed (ish) unlike say the GB to GBC then I am going less with upgrade and more with new console, otherwise you might have to count the PS2 by virtue of it having hardware BC.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

MetroidOtherS said:


> The rumors state it wont be able to render games in 4k but only upscale them as it is impossible for a system with the form factor of a ps4 to render a game in 4k, (pretty obvious) but its said to have features akin to the new 3ds where games will have a boost in fidelity on the ps4.5 but still be able to run on the original ps4. So yeah no 1080p four player split screen.
> That said if i ever get a 4k tv in the future ill prob pick up a ps4.5


The sources I read today say that it can render 4K native, it just doesn't have the juice to do so with AAA titles, which is understandable as even most reasonably priced gaming PC's are huffing, puffing and sweating when attempting to render 4K at a playable framerate. That said, I don't think native 4K is even the point here, Sony probably just wants their console to nail 1080p already and, if possible, be 4K-ready, so to speak. 4K is not adopted in the living room, it's more a buzzword than an actual feature.

EDIT: As for BC, I really couldn't give a rat's ass at this point - you can grab a PS3 for the price of one game these days, or even cheaper if you know where to look, adding that functionality would only serve to bump the price tag.



Vanth88 said:


> Considering the second revision came out several months ago? At least 2 more years. Like I said this isn't like a typical revision and we're not talking about a smaller CPU here. Not only that but this isn't a PC, and it's not a handheld. It's a console and what worries me is that Sony's decided the current hardware isn't good enough and instead of working around current hardware limitations they'll just release newer hardware.
> 
> Not that this really concerns me I mean I could sell my Destiny PS4 and buy the newer revision but... it just leaves me with this sour taste in my mouth. I just bought the PS4, now the entire system's inferior? I'd rather see them improve the OS instead of focusing on 4k.
> 
> With all that being said I'm calling it... they'll start advertising games with smoother frame rates that current models can't achieve. I kind of have this feeling it'll launch around FF15's release and we'll see videos of the game running at 30-60FPS (no telling). It's dastardly, it's evil, it's Sony.


What second revision? Do you mean the 1TB system or the fact that Sony switched from touch-sensitive pads to physical buttons on the console? I wouldn't consider either a revision, they're different SKU's of the same system.


FAST6191 said:


> Just to provide some symmetry from last time this came up I will call the dsi a handheld and not a console, again despite probably arguing the opposite the last time around. Also just because they failed (ish) unlike say the GB to GBC then I am going less with upgrade and more with new console, otherwise you might have to count the PS2 by virtue of it having hardware BC.


It's not about whether the console contains the old hardware or not, it's about whether it's used as the primary processing units. The GBC, DSi and N3DS use the same hardware as their predecessors, just overclocked and with some minor additions. The PS2, PS3 or the GBA do not - they use a whole new "main" processing setup with the old processors used as co-processing units. Of course the GBC/DSi/N3DS cases could be debated since they all have exclusive software, everything depends on the criteria you choose.


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## CathyRina (Apr 19, 2016)

I don't care about all that 4K nonsense
I don't even have a 4K TV
Just make all the Games run at 1080p60 in Neo Mode and I'm sold.
Framerate -> Resolution
If devs just gonna up the resolution or graphical fidelity then this model is redundant for me.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I don't care about all that 4K nonsense
> I don't even have a 4K TV
> Just make all the Games run at 1080p60 in Neo Mode and I'm sold.
> Framerate -> Resolution
> If devs just gonna up the resolution or graphical fidelity then this model is redundant for me.


According to the documents NEO mode is supposed to provide better framerate over base mode first and foremost, so you might get your wish if any of this will turns out to be true.


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## hollowtip (Apr 19, 2016)

FAST6191 said:


> Whether we will see the return of 4 player split screen co-op now everybody can have their
> own 1080p space is also unknown, we can but hope.​



4-player split screen gameplay has become obsolete due to the advent of online gaming, and you wont be seeing it return for anything other than indie titles. That's not to say I'm sad to see it retired either, as playing on a squared section of the TV felt claustrophobic and watered down in comparison to experiencing the single player campaigns or modes.



FAST6191 said:


> We have not really seen true console upgrades since the days of the Amiga, give or take things like the N64 expansion pack which is hardly in the same league as this. What do you think about all this and what do you hope this leads to?



This is pretty incorrect. Off the top of my head, The 32X, Sega CD, and 64DD all offered an upgrade to the base console, and were considered failures. As someone mentioned earlier, 4K hasn't become standardized and the format could easily become defunct in the next few years. Unless sony is able to launch the console at an affordable price point and they are able to offer significant trade-in value towards the new model, I don't see the 4K PS4 gaining enough mainstream attention unless they can eventually match the pricing of the current PS4.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

hollowtip said:


> 4-player split screen gameplay has become obsolete due to the advent of online gaming, and you wont be seeing it return for anything other than indie titles. That's not to say I'm sad to see it retired either, as playing on a squared section of the TV felt claustrophobic and watered down in comparison to experiencing the single player campaigns or modes.
> 
> This is pretty incorrect. Off the top of my head, The 32X, Sega CD, and 64DD all offered an upgrade to the base console, and were considered failures. As someone mentioned earlier, 4K hasn't become standardized and the format could easily become defunct in the next few years. Unless sony is able to launch the console at an affordable price point and they are able to offer significant trade-in value towards the new model, I don't see the 4K PS4 gaining mainstream attention.


4-player co-op won't be obsolete for as long as people have families, friends and couches. Online is great and all, but you're not going to play online multi on a party - you'll play couch co-op. As for the price point, it's supposed to be $399 and chances are that later down the line the new revision will simply replace the base model, as it was the case countless times before. Regarding the add-ons you mentioned, only the 32X was an add-on focused on horsepower - the other two were merely new storage readers with some additional hardware to allow for steady read-out (like extra memory), they weren't exactly re-inventing the base system, merely adding functionality.


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## Qtis (Apr 19, 2016)

So I have to buy another Netflix Machine? 

Kidding, kidding. The PS4 is working quite nicely now and the titles that have been made for it are fantastic. Still, I'm a bit vary on the Neo aspect mainly due to the feeling that Uncharted 4 & co will suffer the Uncharted 3 PS3 effect: Nice visuals, but abysmal frame rates at times on the PS4 vs PS4 Neo. Things will start getting interesting if the XB1 will also be refreshed as rumours have it (though everyone from MS seems to counter this). Time will tell


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## FAST6191 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am not sure I can count the 32x, segaCD or 64DD as upgrades like this or the amiga line. They might go to the same parties and would certainly have been studied as part of market research for this but same would be a stretch for me.

As for 4 player split screen then if I can play a whole single player game on a 20 odd inch TV then playing it on a 50 inch TV at 4k (which for this I will consider it the four 1080p screens stacked side by side and on top of each other) should dodge the claustrophobic thing, not that I ever really felt it and I personally never had a small TV growing up. I fear you also missed the either sarcasm, insincerity, cynicism and/or general apathy towards the games industry that most news posts I make like this tend to be laced with.
Obsolete? There is a reason we still bust out bomberman, sort out LAN xboxes/360s, have 16 bit emulators and more at parties and/or nights in. Granted I relish such things a bit more as I am too cheap to pay for online on consoles so that is most of what I get if I can not be bothered to maintain a gaming grade PC. Equally I am happy enough with two player a lot of the time... wonder if I can get silly wide aspect ratio for two player games.


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## CathyRina (Apr 19, 2016)

Couch coop multiplayer is a way better experience than online multiplayer imo. 
The Irony of it all is that this feature was in its prime when the TV were tiny as f*ck. Now we have big screens but no split screen.


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## hollowtip (Apr 19, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> 4-player co-op won't be obsolete for as long as people have families, friends and couches. Online is great and all, but you're not going to play online multi on a party - you'll play couch co-op. As for the price point, it's supposed to be $399 and chances are that later down the line the new revision will simply replace the base model, as it was the case countless times before. Regarding the add-ons you mentioned, only the 32X was an add-on focused on horsepower - the other two were merely new storage readers with some additional hardware to allow for steady read-out (like extra memory), they weren't exactly re-inventing the base system, merely adding functionality.



I'm talking specifically about split screen four player co-op/vs gameplay, not multiplayer games where everybody is visible without the screen having to be split. Also, 4k technology won't be a revolutionary addition to the PS4 experience, just like the add ons I mentioned.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 19, 2016)

hollowtip said:


> I'm talking specifically about split screen four player co-op/vs gameplay, not multiplayer games where everybody is visible without the screen having to be split. Also, 4k technology won't be a revolutionary addition to the PS4 experience, just like the add ons I mentioned.


Technically speaking, both the SEGA CD and the 32X revolutionized the Sega Genesis experience - one allowed for a multitude of streaming options like FMV and Audio CD BGM's, the other provided the system with means to render true 3D (far beyond what the SuperFX chip could ever achieve, see tech demo below) as a stop gap between the Genesis and the Saturn. Not that either was particularly successful, but they did provide the system with a bunch of new tricks the competition didn't have.


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## vincentx77 (Apr 20, 2016)

Releasing a refresh for a $400 console after being on the market for 3 years is not acceptable, especially given the way this thing will likely fragment the PS4 market. I know Sony says that all games must work on both consoles, but I have a fear that if it sells well, most games will be optimized around the Neo, not the base PS4. 
Sony has also stated that games must run at the same or higher framerate on the Neo as the base PS4, meaning that devs will either have to cap PS4 framerates if they want to hit 4k on Neo, or 4k Neo games will use lower quality graphics settings. 
And looking at the specs for Neo, if you do the math, you can clearly see the GPU is weaker than an R9 290. I have an R9 290x and a 4k monitor and I can tell you that if you want to game in 4k, you definitely have to make compromises with that setup. I would venture to guess that the reason Neo's GPU is 2x more powerful is so that you get a PS4 dedicated to each eye in the VR setup.

And for the record, even though the Sega CD didn't add anything in the way of color, it did add a second CPU that was nearly twice as fast as the one in the Genesis, as well sprite scaling and rotation in hardware, and some extra PCM playback.


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## tbb043 (Apr 20, 2016)

UyakenCracken said:


> [a whole bunch of nonsense]


Folks, that's why you should never post while intoxicated



vincentx77 said:


> And for the record, even though the Sega CD didn't add anything in the way of color, it did add a second CPU that was nearly twice as fast as the one in the Genesis, as well sprite scaling and rotation in hardware, and some extra PCM playback.



Redbook audio wasn't anything to sneeze at, either.


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## Pleng (Apr 20, 2016)

Why are people even comparing this to the 32x, Sega CD and DD64? Those were add-ons to an existing system. This is a whole new system.

People who don't have a PS4 will now have 2 options; the original model at a cheaper price, or pay a bit more to get this one.

People who already have a system can either trade in, or keep their original system. Nothing stops working, and as far as I can see there won't be any games designed exclusively for this system so really nobody loses out.


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## Captain_N (Apr 20, 2016)

zoogie said:


> So it's like a PS4i.
> or New PS4.
> 
> This was kinda tolerable with handhelds but with $400 consoles, yik.
> If PSVR really takes off, maybe this will be worth it. Or at least worth $800.



I was thinking the same thing but nintendo did not force developers to support it.
i wonder if the publishers/devs will like the forced policy. Perhaps it will let nintrndo sneek in and take over...
if all their gonna do is upgrade hardware in 3 years its better to just go pc. thats what happens in the pc gaming world. pop a new gpu in or a new mobo and good to go.
I have that pc in the picture lol . It has one of them quantium big foot drives in it...


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## Steena (Apr 20, 2016)

Console manufacturers keeping on making their own products look like carbon copies of PCs, except inferior in everything, and now having a lower price/performance ratio per generation, which was the one upside.
I spend ~$200 every 3 years to keep my PC into the high tier; looks like consoles will double that for half the performance. What a deal. Also, absolutely nothing will run natively at 4k, unless it ran at 10fps or was a PS2 port. Much less split-screen multiplayer, which is even more taxing. Those specs don't even come close for it. I'm interested to see how will Sony bullshit their way out of this particular one. Watch it be some horrible upscaling abortion.


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## DiscostewSM (Apr 20, 2016)

Captain_N said:


> I was thinking the same thing but nintendo did not force developers to support it.
> i wonder if the publishers/devs will like the forced policy. Perhaps it will let nintrndo sneek in and take over...
> if all their gonna do is upgrade hardware in 3 years its better to just go pc. thats what happens in the pc gaming world. pop a new gpu in or a new mobo and good to go.
> I have that pc in the picture lol . It has one of them quantium big foot drives in it...



To be honest, if the NX happens to be just a little less powerful than a PS4, it's not going to have nearly to problems the Wii U had. The Wii U released with power just slightly better than what existed for the 7+ years prior (Nintendo trying the Wii formula again), just one year before the PS4/XB1 would come out, demolishing what the Wii U could do. Devs were moving onto the next-gen, and even though the Wii U was next-gen, its power was closer to that from the previous gen, and devs needed more power for their imaginings.

Now we have the NX and upgrades to the PS4 (and XB1?) coming around, but I honestly don't think it will be the same scenario happening again. Far from it actually. Unlike the shift from last-gen to this gen, these boosts to existing systems is just that, not an actual generational jump. This means the base units will still be supported for some time. In fact, the base units will still be the focus, not the improved versions, because the devs will have to make sure their games work for them, as those like Sony are demanding that there be nothing special with the boosted versions other than FPS and/or resolution. So, if the NX is at least capable of what the base units can do, then it'll be part of the group and not just an outsider like Wii U was.

Of course, we'd all like the NX to be a bit more than that, as rumors are suggesting it's not an improved version of the Wii U.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 20, 2016)

Once again we come back to the "consoles are made to be just like PC's" argument when they always have been. This approach annoys me so much it's not even funny because it's grossly misleading and uneducated, it denegrates the effort it takes to design a gaming system that uses customized hardware and still doesn't alienate developers.

The N64 was basically an SGI Indy, so much so that the workstation could be used as a devkit. The Xbox 360 was like a pair of Powermac G5's strapped together, which is exactly the setup Microsoft used for their initial presentation of the system, much to the amusement of the more keen observers. It goes as far as the NES, which shares the same CPU with the Commodore VIC-20. Even the Atari 2600, the grandfather of all modern consoles (and by that I define a console that's programmable via some form of removable storage) is basically a close relative of the Atari 8-bit computers. This generation isn't an exception, you guys.

Consoles don't exist in a vaccuum - they are in the exact same pool of technology as our other devices. They use the same hardware and software, everything else does - they always have, and there's nothing wrong with that. Their stregths spring from how the hardware is customized for the purpose of gaming, and since the PS4 *is* customized to a great extent, it's no different from any other console that came before it.

The architecture used does not a PC make, unless you're also willing to say that your Gamecube/Wii/Wii U/XB360 were actually PPC Mac's and your Nintendo handhelds are actually ARM smartphones. The whole distinction is well-within murky waters anyways as at the end of the day, all of those devices classify as computers - computing is what they do. They're also personal, so there you go.


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## Daggot (Apr 20, 2016)

I'll pick it up if I can trade my OG PS4 for a reasonable discount like most revisions.


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## KingVamp (Apr 20, 2016)

Too bad I can't remember who was negative about N3ds,  but OK with Ps4N.  Anyway, "Might as well buy a PC." Last time I check, the people who bought the PS4, don't have to buy the Ps4N. They can still go the whole generation with that console and yeah, it most likely going be exclusives on the Ps4N,  especially for VR, but you still don't have to buy it and if you feel that compelled,  wait for the price to drop.  I still have the original 3ds, despite the bigger size, extra features and games. Probably going wait until the next handheld to upgrade.

Since this is a optional console, they could very well make it a $500 system.


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## Incolbum (Apr 20, 2016)

Playstation VR would be the step before 4k, I'd assume. The steam vr test runs two screens at 90fps each, so if Sony can really pull off a Playstation that can do that at 1080p, and keep the price under 500 dollars, I'd think about buying one. 

As for 4k, I think we still have to wait a few years before that even is a plausible concept. The cheapest you can build a 4k pc today is about 900 dollars. A lot of people still don't even have 4k TVs, so I assume Sony will wait until the trend has both caught on with TVs and has become cheap enough to mass produce.


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## BLsquared (Apr 21, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Once again we come back to the "consoles are made to be just like PC's" argument when they always have been. This approach annoys me so much it's not even funny because it's grossly misleading and uneducated, it denegrates the effort it takes to design a gaming system that uses customized hardware and still doesn't alienate developers.
> 
> The N64 was basically an SGI Indy, so much so that the workstation could be used as a devkit. The Xbox 360 was like a pair of Powermac G5's strapped together, which is exactly the setup Microsoft used for their initial presentation of the system, much to the amusement of the more keen observers. It goes as far as the NES, which shares the same CPU with the Commodore VIC-20. Even the Atari 2600, the grandfather of all modern consoles (and by that I define a console that's programmable via some form of removable storage) is basically a close relative of the Atari 8-bit computers. This generation isn't an exception, you guys.
> 
> ...


Yup. Nice explanation, Foxi.
Still, this seems to be an interesting move for Sony; can't wait to see where this goes. Not saying I will invest in them at this point, but still.
I would hope that perhaps this might open up the development of titles by indie devs a bit, but if it did, I could see smaller players being unable to use the new "PS4k" hardware upgrades, limiting them to only the lower PS4 bracket. But they did say that all games will be cross-compatible, which actually would negate that hypothesis.
Maybe one of the things Sony is trying to push is the sales of their own 4K televisions? I mean, if the "PS4K" is going to be even half the price of a budget 4K PC, it might stimulate people to actually buy 4K diplays to see the improved picture. Maybe Sony's move here will help 4K jump into the average consumer market? Again, more hypothesizing.
Ah well. I'll have to wait on this one, especially since there are not exactly a myriad of PS4-exclusive titles I am interested in, which of course would be the main reason behind purchasing one instead of just the "next-gen" graphics.
Just my 2 cents.


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## VMM (Apr 21, 2016)

I am actually glad they changed the name from PS4K to PS4 Neo.
PS4K make it look like the main point about the console is 4K gameplay.
Which could make developers try to force their games to run at 4K,
which would result in terrible framerates.

Trying to jump to 4K now would be nuts. 
PS4 has a hard time rendering games at 1080p60fps, if we are able to see most games running at this resolution and framerate on PS4 Neo that would be enough for me.


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## netovsk (Apr 25, 2016)

Well to me my ps4 is pretty much a walled garden cheap pc already and thats how I like it. I play only pc games or pc ports on it and I actually find most ps4 exclusives kinda dull,.specially compared to nintendo ones which are awesome.


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## teegeeack (Apr 29, 2016)

pic looks a lot like a late 1990s compaq mini-tower PC. the peak of american industrial design, right there. good to see sony taking inspiration from the classics.


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