# Japan sends warship to China flying rising sun flag, sparking backlash from Korea



## Zhongtiao1 (May 3, 2019)

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east...tting-japans-warship-fly-rising-sun-flag-sign

TLDR;
China let Japan fly the imperial flag when docking in Qingdao with a warship. Korea rightly objected. Further worsening ties.

Japan is playing a dangerous game. I get you aren't sorry that you oppressed and murdered millions upon millions of people, but at least have some decency.


----------



## Xiphiidae (May 3, 2019)

The "rising sun flag" is the current flag of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, and hence effectively functions as Japan's naval ensign. Stating outright that Korea "_rightly_ objected" is either dishonest or incredibly ignorant. It would be absurd for a Japanese warship to fly their national flag, just as it would be for a warship from the Royal Australian Navy to fly the Australian flag as opposed to the Australian White Ensign.


----------



## Viri (May 3, 2019)

My question is, why is Japan docking a war ship in a dock in China?


----------



## tabzer (May 3, 2019)

Viri said:


> My question is, why is Japan docking a war ship in a dock in China?



Bother checking the source?

The destroyer arrived in Qingdao port on Sunday, and will be among vessels from 10 nations taking part in a naval review


--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Zhongtiao1 said:


> Japan is playing a dangerous game. I get you aren't sorry that you oppressed and murdered millions upon millions of people, but at least have some decency.



That is insincere fodder.  You must be bored or feeling insignificant.


----------



## Viri (May 3, 2019)

tabzer said:


> The destroyer arrived in Qingdao port on Sunday, and will be among vessels from 10 nations taking part in a naval review


Nope, too lazy, it's easier to just ask.


----------



## tabzer (May 3, 2019)

Viri said:


> Nope, too lazy, it's easier to just ask.



In this case I don't think it was easier.  I appreciate your honesty.


----------



## Zhongtiao1 (May 3, 2019)

Xiphiidae said:


> The "rising sun flag" is the current flag of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, and hence effectively functions as Japan's naval ensign. Stating outright that Korea "_rightly_ objected" is either dishonest or incredibly ignorant. It would be absurd for a Japanese warship to fly their national flag, just as it would be for a warship from the Royal Australian Navy to fly the Australian flag as opposed to the Australian White Ensign.



I understand that there are different flags for different parts of the armed forces, but the rising sun flag is still a sign of oppression. It keeps poking an old wound so that it will never heal. 

You can't just make what Japan did to east Asia go away. There's too much bad blood. In this instance it would have been a decision for them to just fly the state flag instead of both the state and the MSDF flag.


----------



## notimp (May 3, 2019)

Reason why, is because of Chinas increasingly important role in world politics.

In regards to Japan, this concerns sea routes (shipping of wares). In the past america (together with its ally japan) would protect those routes, now increasingly china is taking over.

The flag is a nice gambit.  (In negotiations its always beneficial to at least have one member of your team spout a "cowboy" attitute.  (He's less predictable..  ))

See this: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...tted-near-disputed-south-china-sea-isle-year/ and google disputes east china sea


----------



## Xiphiidae (May 3, 2019)

Zhongtiao1 said:


> I understand that there are different flags for different parts of the armed forces, but the rising sun flag is still a sign of oppression. It keeps poking an old wound so that it will never heal.
> 
> You can't just make what Japan did to east Asia go away. There's too much bad blood. In this instance it would have been a decision for them to just fly the state flag instead of both the state and the MSDF flag.


This is nonsense. It's a navel ship (and a warship in particular). It will fly that nation's naval ensign.
Most nations have done questionable or immoral things at some point in history, should we prevent all of them from flying their flags? Should the UK change its flag because some people don't like things that the British Empire has done in the past? Should the USA? China? Israel? Turkey? Or is only Japan not allowed to fly its naval ensign because it makes people upset?

The title of this thread should simply be "10 Nations Take Part in Naval Review in China, Naval Vessels Fly Naval Ensigns".


----------



## tabzer (May 3, 2019)

South Korea just wants to be involved somehow.


----------



## Zhongtiao1 (May 3, 2019)

Xiphiidae said:


> This is nonsense. It's a navel ship. A warship in particular. It will fly the naval ensign.
> Most nations have done questionable or immoral things at some point in history, should we prevent all of them from flying their flags? Should the UK change its flag because some people don't like things that the British Empire has done in the past? Should the USA? China? Israel?
> 
> The title of this thread should simply be "10 Nations Take Part in Naval Review in China, Naval Vessels Fly Naval Ensigns".



It'd more than just that. It's a power move. Japan knows that America will back them over China. China knows this too, that's why they aren't doing anything. Korea doesn't have to worry about American backlash. This isn't just a military exercising their right, it's a calculated political move.


----------



## Xiphiidae (May 3, 2019)

Zhongtiao1 said:


> It'd more than just that. It's a power move. Japan knows that America will back them over China. China knows this too, that's why they aren't doing anything. Korea doesn't have to worry about American backlash. This isn't just a military exercising their right, it's a calculated political move.


This isn't even a stretch, it's absolute nonsense. How was it a "power move" in any shape or form? It was a naval review where all ships would have flown their nation's naval ensigns. I'm not necessarily trying to ignore/minimise certain aspects of Imperial Japan's history or behaviour, I just don't think it's particularly important or even relevant to this at all. A naval ship flew its naval ensign, that's it. You have no evidence that this was calculated. Japanese warships always fly their naval ensign, as would any warship from any nation, and this was no exception.


----------



## DiscostewSM (May 3, 2019)

Viri said:


> My question is, why is Japan docking a war ship in a dock in China?


It's protection for unloading the Nintendo Switch units, of course.


----------



## notimp (May 3, 2019)

Second try in more simple language.

If everything would have stayed the same as it ever was, japan would have done nothing. But China has 200 and rising warships in the south china sea, taking over dominance and ownership of sea routes.

If ships try to get around that and use wider routes - costs explode, so thats not viable.

America and japan controlled the sea routes in those regions beforehand. (Allies.)
America has announced to the world stage, that they would retreat from the "pax americana" (read wiki) model.

("Europe has to pay more for Nato", "We (US) dont want to be involved in the middle east to that extent", but also - fracking - "We energy independent for the next 30 years, and dont care much about the rest of the world", and we dont want military conflict with china, we battle on trade deals).

Now Japan sits alone and isolated in their part of the world. Nope, thats not it, but thats the fear.  So Japan and China start negotiations.

To which the japanese appear with "we'll bomb you all into the stoneages" apparel.  Its a gambit. They wont.  (And the chinese publicly say nothing, which means: We'll talk.)


----------



## shinrukus (Jun 29, 2019)

Xiphiidae said:


> This isn't even a stretch, it's absolute nonsense. How was it a "power move" in any shape or form? It was a naval review where all ships would have flown their nation's naval ensigns. I'm not necessarily trying to ignore/minimise certain aspects of Imperial Japan's history or behaviour, I just don't think it's particularly important or even relevant to this at all. A naval ship flew its naval ensign, that's it. You have no evidence that this was calculated. Japanese warships always fly their naval ensign, as would any warship from any nation, and this was no exception.



So i'm mixed on this as well, I'm not a big fan of North Korea... especially having served in the US Army, while being stationed at the DMZ in South Korea... BUT I completely understand the implications of a flag's impact on your society that has served as a symbol of oppression. In America, as a black man, We deal with the Confederate Flag as a symbol of the time when the Southern States used to wave before the abolishiment of slavery, in the aftermath of the Civil War, that also led the path to the 14th Amendment (which doesn't "abolish" slavery, it just changes the terms on slavery). In the Aftermath of all of that, the Confederate Flag stands as a reminder to Black people about the time when they were oppressed here. So I fully understand why the DPRK would feel some type of way about a flag that stands as a reminder to opression.

Thats also not to say you are wrong either, as it may not be something people did just to "piss off the DPRK", but I get it.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 30, 2019)

Zhongtiao1 said:


> I understand that there are different flags for different parts of the armed forces, but the rising sun flag is still a sign of oppression. It keeps poking an old wound so that it will never heal.


By that logic, the US and British flags should never be flown because they're symbols of imperialist intervention/conquest.  Every country has its shameful periods of history.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 30, 2019)

Zhongtiao1 said:


> China let Japan fly the imperial flag





Zhongtiao1 said:


> I get you aren't sorry that you oppressed and murdered millions upon millions of people, but at least have some decency.








I don't know which is more funny, but this is life and there really isn't much we can do about it.


----------



## Viri (Jun 30, 2019)

Xzi said:


> By that logic, the US and British flags should never be flown because they're symbols of imperialist intervention/conquest.  Every country has its shameful periods of history.


I also don't hear countries in eastern Europe bitching about the Russian flag. It's the same flag as the Russian Empire's flag. I wonder how triggered Ireland gets over the UK's flag...


----------



## Taleweaver (Jun 30, 2019)

Zhongtiao1 said:


> https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east...tting-japans-warship-fly-rising-sun-flag-sign
> 
> TLDR;
> China let Japan fly the imperial flag when docking in Qingdao with a warship. Korea rightly objected. Further worsening ties.
> ...


... Did you count on lazyness of the tempers? That isn't a summary of the article but your opinion of it. 

I 'he read it, but my summary would be in the lines of' the participating countries allow it because they want to strengthen relationships with Japan, but they're not too happy of Japan showing their flag '. 

The last you can mention is that China doesn't object to it. And rightfully so, because it's a freaking FLAG. If that was a breaking point, China wouldn't have invited in the entire warship underneath said flag to begin with. 

So my opinion on this matter is more in the area of 'south Korea is disgruntled a bit'


----------

