# Muslim & Atheist Debate, Interesting!



## Haider Raza (Apr 19, 2017)

Watch all videos before commenting.


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## ItsMetaKnight (Apr 19, 2017)

I only watched the first two, but I think I've seen enough. It's sad how aggressively they're trying to put words into the Atheist's mouth he didn't even say. It's also unfair how they're asking him questions based on their islamic beliefs instead of accepting his non-nonbelieving.

From the point of Islam, Islamic people think the Atheist is risking hellfire.
From the point of Atheism, the Atheist isn't risking anything, but instead Islamic people are risking wasting their lifetime and free will.

The Athest may seem to be struggling, but that's because 1) it makes no sense asking the other party a question based on a point he is not a believer of, and 2) he's being attacked by multiple people who are not even letting him finish his explanations.


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## Flame (Apr 19, 2017)

this thread is only going to end well.


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

Islam & Atheism have a lot in common, both violent and authoritarian in nature. No use for either.


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## Bubsy Bobcat (Apr 19, 2017)

i thought we weren't allowed these sort of threads


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## yusuo (Apr 19, 2017)

We're not, ok we are but they are very frowned upon


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 19, 2017)

Bubsy Bobcat said:


> i thought we weren't allowed these sort of threads


Well you would think that when they allow a thread and videos of a murderer who shot an innocent man, surely they would allow this thread.

Also I agree with the first comment in this thread. Muslims tend to get too defensive when it's about their beliefs, especially those who don't have an academic education. I'm sure this is partly due to the strict parental education in most families.


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## John_Kirky (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> Islam & Atheism have a lot in common, both violent and authoritarian in nature. No use for either.



I think you misunderstand Atheism. It is not a religion and it is not authoritarian (there is no Atheist-Pope... No elected leader of the Atheist movement...)
I would not call myself an atheist... simply because it is no faith. It's simply that I do not have a faith. and why should I? There is absolutely no proof of god.
None, nada. Nobody in their right mind would for example say he Round-Earther... because he does not support the Flat-Earth Theory. That is because the Flat-Earth Theory
is so idiotic that nobody even bothers to dispute it. Same as religion. Why bother to dispute it? It is a load of bullshit.

Who says atheism is a faith also believe the "off"-switch on the TV is another chanel :-)


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

John_Kirky said:


> I think you misunderstand Atheism. It is not a religion and it is not authoritarian (there is no Atheist-Pope... No elected leader of the Atheist movement...)
> I would not call myself an atheist... simply because it is no faith. It's simply that I do not have a faith. and why should I? There is absolutely no proof of god.
> None, nada. Nobody in their right mind would for example say he Round-Earther... because he does not support the Flat-Earth Theory. That is because the Flat-Earth Theory
> is so idiotic that nobody even bothers to dispute it. Same as religion. Why bother to dispute it? It is a load of bullshit.
> ...




I am well aware  Atheists like to go to their convention with their symbols and pretend they aren't any type of organized community. Then discuss how they never had any type of intrinsic relationship with the communist totalitarian states of the 1900's despite Gosateizm but some of us have picked up a history book.

Even Hitchens acknowledged that Atheism & Marxism were bedfellows.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 19, 2017)

John_Kirky said:


> I think you misunderstand Atheism. It is not a religion and it is not authoritarian (there is no Atheist-Pope... No elected leader of the Atheist movement...)
> I would not call myself an atheist... simply because it is no faith. It's simply that I do not have a faith. and why should I? There is absolutely no proof of god.
> None, nada. Nobody in their right mind would for example say he Round-Earther... because he does not support the Flat-Earth Theory. That is because the Flat-Earth Theory
> is so idiotic that nobody even bothers to dispute it. Same as religion. Why bother to dispute it? It is a load of bullshit.
> ...


You could argue that atheists have faith in not having a faith.


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## John_Kirky (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> I am well aware  Atheists like to go to their convention with their symbols and pretend they aren't any type of organized community. Then discuss how they never had any type of intrinsic relationship with the communist totalitarian states of the 1900's despite Gosateizm but some of us have picked up a history book.
> 
> Even Hitchens acknowledged that Atheism & Marxism were bedfellows.



ooooooookay.... not sure if sarcasm or genuine tin-foil-head-wearing-barking-mad....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WiiUBricker said:


> You could argue that atheists have faith in not having a faith.



Nope...because I do not actively believe that there is not god. Would be the same as arguing I have faith that I cannot Fly, that I have faith that the grass is green, that I have faith that the earth is (more or less) round...
It's so fundamentally absurd to believe in god that it is not necessary to "believe" it does not exist.


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## LaPingas (Apr 19, 2017)

Before watching the videos, I'll just say that those argues don't really matter. Let everyone believe in what they want to believe, or just let them do choose to not believe. As long as it won't hurt any other people it is perfectly fine. So why those decisions can't change with an argue?
1. Because of that you born with at the most 2 options and you won't really change it unless your enviornment is supporting this
2. Because you're in position of defending your opinion

I will maybe comment more after watching the videos


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 19, 2017)

John_Kirky said:


> Nope...because I do not actively believe that there is not god. Would be the same as arguing I have faith that I cannot Fly, that I have faith that the grass is green, that I have faith that the earth is (more or less) round...
> It's so fundamentally absurd to believe in god that it is not necessary to "believe" it does not exist.


So you're saying that you're an empty shell of a being, then?


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

John_Kirky said:


> ooooooookay.... not sure if sarcasm or genuine tin-foil-head-wearing-barking-mad....



That or maybe you're just ignorant of Russian history and that's why you resort to the adhominem instead of refuting the point.  States founded on an acknowledged principal of atheism, which are numerous are universally totalitarian shitholes.

There was a tinge of sarcasm, because one of those most obnoxious parts of the faith based belief of Atheism is denying they ever have had any type of organizational structure at anytime or at any point in history while universally condemning religions involvement in civilization.


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## tech3475 (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> Islam & Atheism have a lot in common, both violent and authoritarian in nature. No use for either.



Because we should all believe in what you believe and you believe your belief is not guilty of any of these things?


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## Wolfvak (Apr 19, 2017)

Gee, I sure love having religious discussions in my gaming and hacking community site...
Why are these threads even a thing? Do you desperately need everyone else to know what you think or believe? Personally, I'd like to call for a thread close and a temporary ban on these kind of threads.


Nothing good comes out of them...


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## jahrs (Apr 19, 2017)

@John_Kirky by that logic theres also no proof that there isnt a god. Which is why heated debates over this are pointless cause people with actual working brains know theres no "solid" evidence and never will be to prove either side so id say drop it and let people believe what they want to believe cause its gives them and their lives meaning to live the way they see to be best.


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## shadoom (Apr 19, 2017)

i prefer the "iosuhax when" posts instead of this garbage


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

tech3475 said:


> Because we should all believe in what you believe and you believe your belief is not guilty of any of these things?



"Any" is a little broad of a metric don't you think?  As far a spectrum Some  is better than All.

I am just a simple Deist, "God" might be a Alien with a Petri dish or an AI running an elaborate version of the SIMS. My only firm belief is that of a creator or intervening force.  I reject the notion that life has perservered or thrived through sheer chance. 

That said I will happily defend the fact Western Civilization is a product of Christians and it is far superior to anything Atheists or Muslims have produced. Any place worth living, that has any tradition of human rights or freedom was founded by people rooted in a Christian culture with few exceptions.


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## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

Wolfvak said:


> Gee, I sure love having religious discussions in my gaming and hacking community site...
> Why are these threads even a thing? Do you desperately need everyone else to know what you think or believe? Personally, I'd like to call for a thread close and a temporary ban on these kind of threads.
> 
> 
> Nothing good comes out of them...


If everyone in the world was dying, and you knew the cure, what kind of a monster would you have to be to not share it?

As for the thread itself, if you don't like it you can simply not read it. It's not like it's doing you and harm.


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## Jiehfeng (Apr 19, 2017)

Both the atheists and religious people are stupid, they go on trying to prove to each other that God is or isn't. But both of them deep down have doubt, which is why they can't stop trying to prove themselves. If the Athiests know that God isn't, they will drop it then and there, why fret over something that doesn't exist? Yeah, they *believe* that God isn't, they don't know for sure, so amongst all their logic and theories, they will always have the doubt in them, which is why they can't stop talking about it. If a fantasy is so obvious to you it does not exist, why go on trying to prove to others it does not? It's because in the process you're trying to prove it to yourself too.

Same way goes with the religious people, if they know God is there and is helping them, none of them would try to argue with the non-believers. If God is so real and true to them, they would devote more time to him instead of debates and arguments, for them it would be like trying to prove light exists to blind people, their efforts will always prove futile and any man with common sense would give up on that. They stick to the books which claim great things without evidence, and so doubt will always follow them along with their beliefs, so this race will never end for them either.


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## Spider_Man (Apr 19, 2017)

my personal opinion is that all religions started off as a means to gain power and control over the people.

there is no such thing or proof to say otherwise that a higher power exists.... such as god.

main reason to this which im sure others agree is that everything has to have a reason and a creator, so if god or whatever created us, then who created god.

i also think the concept of religion is to help the state of mind, for example.

put yourself in a shit situation, if your positively thinking everything is ok and you have someone looking out for you - your state of mind will give you a better chance of getting out of that shit situation.

put yourself in a shit situation - your loosing your mind, your scared, your panicking and you cant see any good or anything positive - your state of mind will give you less of a chance of getting out of that shit situation.

when for example someone close to you dies, it helps the grieving to think that person is in a better place that the suffering and pain has ended.


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## jahrs (Apr 19, 2017)

Human id say afterall how many extinctions have we caused on a whole and have yet to cure the situation by not erasing ourselves as a whole or reverting back to the stones ages where our impact on the world was less.

That is like the chicken or the egg either way god or no god then the question becomes what created the elements for the big bang and who created them. Its a question with no answer and most likely never will have one causes its an infinite loop.


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## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

Jiehfeng said:


> Same way goes with the religious people, if they know God is there and is helping them, none of them would try to argue with the non-believers. If God is so real and true to them, they would devote more time to him instead of debates and arguments, for them it would be like trying to prove light exists to blind people, their efforts will always prove futile and any man with common sense would give up on that. They stick to the books which claim great things without evidence, and so doubt will always follow them along with their beliefs, so this race will never end for them either.


Your argument might be valid if it wasn't for this: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28:16-20&version=NLT


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## Hells Malice (Apr 19, 2017)

John_Kirky said:


> ooooooookay.... not sure if sarcasm or genuine tin-foil-head-wearing-barking-mad....



He's a batshit crazy brainwashed American.
To be honest the more posts of his I see, the more i'm starting to think he's just a very dedicated theme troll.


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## Jiehfeng (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> Your argument might be valid if it wasn't for this: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28:16-20&version=NLT



That is one reason maybe for why they are arguing with non-believers, but the other main one is because of their doubt, nothing else. They are focusing more on proving God first than let alone baptizing people.


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## jahrs (Apr 19, 2017)

Ah that passage. Its good i agree but only if people understood what it meant to teach. And most people dont cause instead they debate and attack rather then pass on knowledge.

Also the person above has a point thats the issue to many have beliefs they dont truly believe themselves and instead try to force others to believe so to make themselves feel better and gain a sense of importance.


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## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

Jiehfeng said:


> That is one reason maybe for why they are arguing with non-believers, but the other main one is because of their doubt, nothing else. They are focusing more on proving God first than let alone baptizing people.


In order to make disciples for God, people first need to believe He exists. That said, it does look like many people focus more on debate than sharing information. Trying to force people to believe something is a waste of time. If after hearing about God and the salvation He offers, and people don't want to hear more, then they've made their choice and it's time to move on. After all, choice is one of the only things we truly have.


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## smileyhead (Apr 19, 2017)

Flame said:


> this thread is only going to end well.


*takes cover*


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## jahrs (Apr 19, 2017)

@evandixon i like your way of thought we need more people who understand the way the world works or rather should work if not for all the adult children running it.


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## tech3475 (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> That said I will happily defend the fact Western Civilization is a product of Christians and it is far superior to anything Atheists or Muslims have produced. Any place worth living, that has any tradition of human rights or freedom was founded by people rooted in a Christian culture with few exceptions.



AFAIK, Western Civilisation is the culmination of concepts from various cultures, including non christian ones (Greek, Roman, Islam, Hindu, etc.).

Christianity itself had to move on in order for our civilisation to move on (e.g. Heliocentrism, medical science, evolutionary science, human rights, etc.).


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## jahrs (Apr 19, 2017)

Well even if the structured christianity should be removed i believe a slight modified variation of its moral values should be kept within society so to prevent someone from ending all existance with the push of a big shiny red button.


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

tech3475 said:


> AFAIK, Western Civilisation is the culmination of concepts from various cultures, including non christian ones (Greek, Roman, Islam, Hindu, etc.).
> 
> Christianity itself had to move on in order for our civilisation to move on (e.g. Heliocentrism, medical science, evolutionary science, human rights, etc.).



Heliocentrism: Copernicus, Roman Catholic cleric who started off in canon law, from the Catholic Kingdom of Poland inspired by Kepler from the Holy Roman Empire.

Evolutionary science, Darwin, Raised Anglican educated at *Christ's* College.

human rights, Magna Carta, written by the *Archbishop* of Canterbury.

Now the father of medicine is Hippocrates, who lived B.C but that simply demonstrates how far back in time you have to go to find any relevant contribution that wasn't a product of European Christians.


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## RevPokemon (Apr 19, 2017)

I wish @Yil was here...

Anyway, Islam (and all other religions) has done a lot of good in the world. Likewise, some atheists also raise certain valuable points about things. Either way, why debate this stuff in a flame war?


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## ItsMetaKnight (Apr 19, 2017)

What did Islam and other religions actually do good, though? Is it something that couldn't have been done without religions?


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## Depravo (Apr 19, 2017)

Bubsy Bobcat said:


> i thought we weren't allowed these sort of threads


It will stay open as long as people can have a polite discussion like civilised adults.

So it's probably going to be locked sooner rather than later.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Jiehfeng said:


> Both the atheists and religious people are stupid, they go on trying to prove to each other that God is or isn't. But both of them deep down have doubt, which is why they can't stop trying to prove themselves. If the Athiests know that God isn't, they will drop it then and there, why fret over something that doesn't exist? Yeah, they *believe* that God isn't, they don't know for sure, so amongst all their logic and theories, they will always have the doubt in them, which is why they can't stop talking about it. If a fantasy is so obvious to you it does not exist, why go on trying to prove to others it does not? It's because in the process you're trying to prove it to yourself too.
> 
> Same way goes with the religious people, if they know God is there and is helping them, none of them would try to argue with the non-believers. If God is so real and true to them, they would devote more time to him instead of debates and arguments, for them it would be like trying to prove light exists to blind people, their efforts will always prove futile and any man with common sense would give up on that. They stick to the books which claim great things without evidence, and so doubt will always follow them along with their beliefs, so this race will never end for them either.


The reason why believers of God go out into the world and debate is because they don't want people to burn in a lake of sulfur, and fire for all eternity.


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## DeslotlCL (Apr 19, 2017)

this guy is muslim/islamic, not sure why you guys are giving him the attention he wants to shove his religion on our throats like he was doing on that other thread.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Jiehfeng said:


> That is one reason maybe for why they are arguing with non-believers, but the other main one is because of their doubt, nothing else. They are focusing more on proving God first than let alone baptizing people.


Well of course they focus on proving God first before baptizing, baptizing doesn't save people believe in God does, in order to believe in God you must know that he is, that comes first before anything. You would have a point if the verses on unbelievers in both the Christian or Muslim faith didn't exist, but as it stands while it may be one of the reasons, doubt is definitely not the only one, some people have no doubt in their mind about God's existence, but go out to teach about God because they want to save people. 

Atheists though I could see your point, but I also have a counterpoint, some of the laws such as anti-gay marriage laws come from a religious point of view, so they believe that if it wasn't for religion such laws wouldn't exist. So they try to get people out of their faith so that they aren't influenced by it when making decisions thinking that somehow if religion didn't exist there would be less problems on earth. While I don't agree with that, I understand why they do it.


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## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

Has anyone actually ever seen this 'god'? if not do all these different gods hangout and shit?


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Retroboy said:


> my personal opinion is that all religions started off as a means to gain power and control over the people.
> 
> there is no such thing or proof to say otherwise that a higher power exists.... such as god.
> 
> ...



God is infinite eternal he has no beginning or an end, God has always existed, he wasn't born or created like us humans, he doesn't have a beginning nor an end, it's hard for us humans to comprehend it because that's all we know beginning and an end. He is far beyond the realm of time itself. That's what happens when your an omnipotent deity. God has no creator, as he created the very concept of beginning.


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> uujhrg



It is, but beheading and stoning videos aren't really forum friendly.

The only people ever engaging in stoning or waving around human heads routinely are Muslims, When the Swiss drag a woman out of the house because she was raped, stoning her to death and beheading her boyfriend then waving around the head in front of cheering crowd then I'll _*consider*_ a parity between the cultures morality and behavior.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Has anyone actually ever seen this 'god'? if not do all these different gods hangout and shit?


Well in order to look for God, you must know the attributes to look for, before you can answer does God exist, you must first ask ok what are the attributes that I must look for.


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

Should we overlook the wrong Muslim did to India like we did with Christianity to Europe?
On the other hand it would seem that middle east before world war one has been powerful and cultural accepting.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



spiderman1216 said:


> God is infinite eternal he has no beginning or an end, God has always existed, he wasn't born or created like us humans, he doesn't have a beginning nor an end, it's hard for us humans to comprehend it because that's all we know beginning and an end. He is far beyond the realm of time itself. That's what happens when your an omnipotent deity. God has no creator, as he created the very concept of beginning.


And how do you know your god is actually the omnipotent one? Even his own lore on creation suggest him to be under powered.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> Should we overlook the wrong Muslim did to India like we did with Christianity to Europe?
> On the other hand it would seem that middle east before world war one has been powerful and cultural accepting.


Well for Islam it's a little different since there is no New Testament and their book tells them to do this. Where as what the Christians did the Europe is actually condemned by the Bible itself.


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

spiderman1216 said:


> Well for Islam it's a little different since there is no New Testament and their book tells them to do this. Where as what the Christians did the Europe is actually condemned by the Bible itself.


I cared about results, and the results told me Christianity cause a dark age in Europe and only through its removal can Europe rise to today's position.
I hate Nazis and their Nationalism, but the one righteous thing they did is destroying the Christian order that has been plaguing Scandinavian land.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> Should we overlook the wrong Muslim did to India like we did with Christianity to Europe?
> On the other hand it would seem that middle east before world war one has been powerful and cultural accepting.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


What about him is under powered you mean when God rested or because he decided to create the earth in 6 days? I honestly believe he did it as an example for us, not because he actually needed 6 days to create the earth.

In the bible we are to work for 6 days, and rest on the 7th.


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

spiderman1216 said:


> What about him is under powered you mean when God rested or because he decided to create the earth in 6 days? I honestly believe he did it as an example for us, not because he actually needed 6 days to create the earth.
> 
> In the bible we are to work for 6 days, and rest on the 7th.


And that one time when he tried to wipe out the humans he didn't snap them out of existence but instead use a flood to kill the animals and all the plants too?
Or the fact that the best Jesus can do is healing and walking on water?


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> I cared about results, and the results told me Christianity cause a dark age in Europe and only through its removal can Europe rise to today's position.
> I hate Nazis and their Nationalism, but the one righteous thing they did is destroying the Christian order that has been plaguing Scandinavian land.


Well it's not Christianity that caused it, it's people that just so happened to be Christians. There is no cure for stupidity anyone could have caused the dark ages, the people that did just so happened to be Christians. Unless the New Testament said somewhere it's ok to take land away from people then I wouldn't blame Christianity for that issue that's a human problem. Not something that can be taken away back a lack of belief in a God humans will try to justify doing wrong for any reason.

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Yil said:


> And that one time when he tried to wipe out the humans he didn't snap them out of existence but instead use a flood to kill the animals and all the plants too?
> Or the fact that the best Jesus can do is healing and walking on water?


He didn't want to wipe out all of humanity he wanted to keep Noah, also the rainbow of the flood God used as a symbol of how he will never do it again.

Actually Jesus could do a hell of a lot more, when Peter cut off the man's ear, Jesus said put the sword away, I can summon angels from heaven to fight for me. He just healed and walked on water there is no evidence to prove that it's all he could do.


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

spiderman1216 said:


> Well it's not Christianity that caused it, it's people that just so happened to be Christians. There is no cure for stupidity anyone could have caused the dark ages, the people that did just so happened to be Christians. Unless the New Testament said somewhere it's ok to take land away from people then I wouldn't blame Christianity for that issue that's a human problem.


What about the part about prosecuting other religions?

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spiderman1216 said:


> Well it's not Christianity that caused it, it's people that just so happened to be Christians. There is no cure for stupidity anyone could have caused the dark ages, the people that did just so happened to be Christians. Unless the New Testament said somewhere it's ok to take land away from people then I wouldn't blame Christianity for that issue that's a human problem.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


And how is summoning small army of spirits even supposed to impressive?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@spiderman1216 The fact that he needs armies to do his bidding suggest he is not omnipotent. Omnipotent beings can shift reality without consequences.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@spiderman1216 And skyfather plus their siblings is much more powerful than Christian god lore wise and it's well established that Skyfathers are at least two generations away from primordial deity.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> What about the part about prosecuting other religions?





Yil said:


> What about the part about prosecuting other religions?
> The New Testament is actually against that to
> 
> 
> ...




But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always _be_ ready to _give_ a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 1 Peter 3:15

Oh and fear doesn't mean trembling it means respect, it's old English.  So no persecution isn't something that the New Testament accepts, the old testament for very contextual reasons, and historical reasons.

That's not all Jesus could do he just gave an example to Peter if he wanted to he could have snapped his fingers and caused the soldiers to explode if he wanted to. Jesus doesn't need Armies to do his bidding, there is no evidence in the bible to show that he actually needs the army he just chooses to use them.

You for some reason think that him having an army, or him using certain things like a flood which in the end is symbolic(rainbow) for something shows he isn't omnipotent. Even though there is no evidence to show that he actually needs to do these things.


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

spiderman1216 said:


> That's not all Jesus could do he just gave an example to Peter if he wanted to he could have snapped his fingers and caused the soldiers to explode if he wanted to. Jesus doesn't need Armies to do his bidding, there is no evidence in the bible to show that he actually needs the army he just chooses to use them


Even then, omnipotence requires much greater prove.
I am not going argue that God, or any other gods don't exist cause I believe they do, but if you think it gives you the right to persecute any other religion, sexuality and alike you deserve to be wiped clean off the earth.


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## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

List of miracles performed by Jesus. The list itself, however, doesn't really do justice to the miracles' significance.


Yil said:


> The fact that he needs armies to do his bidding suggest he is not omnipotent. Omnipotent beings can shift reality without consequences.


God Himself is not technically omnipotent, since He can't go against his own nature (e.g. doing evil, changing, etc). He also gave up some power by allowing us free will. However, that's no reason to give Him any less love or respect. He created the universe, after all, and His grace is what allows us to not eternally die. Best part is, His grace is available to anyone who wants it.


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## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> Even then, omnipotence requires much greater prove.
> I am not going argue that God, or any other gods don't exist cause I believe they do, but if you think it gives you the right to persecute any other religion, sexuality and alike you deserve to be wiped clean off the earth.



I'm a Christian, and I don't  Also on omnipotent I think always existing kinda proves it. There is no reason in the bible that is given that shows that Jesus needed to summon armies, that God needed a flood, or that 

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always _be_ ready to _give_ a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 
*1 Peter 3:15*

The New Testament is pretty clear on this, you are not to hurt others regardless of religion. Jesus didn't hurt others, therefore you are not to do so.


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## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> List of miracles performed by Jesus. The list itself, however, doesn't really do justice to the miracles' significance.
> 
> God Himself is not technically omnipotent, since He can't go against his own nature (e.g. doing evil, changing, etc). He also gave up some power by allowing us free will. However, that's no reason to give Him any less love or respect. He created the universe, after all, and His grace is what allows us to not eternally die. Best part is, His grace is available to anyone who wants it.




Aliens created the world, get it right


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## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> List of miracles performed by Jesus. The list itself, however, doesn't really do justice to the miracles' significance.
> 
> God Himself is not technically omnipotent, since He can't go against his own nature (e.g. doing evil, changing, etc). He also gave up some power by allowing us free will. However, that's no reason to give Him any less love or respect. He created the universe, after all, and His grace is what allows us to not eternally die. Best part is, His grace is available to anyone who wants it.


I just cannot link monotheism to the actual god.


----------



## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> List of miracles performed by Jesus. The list itself, however, doesn't really do justice to the miracles' significance.
> 
> God Himself is not technically omnipotent, since He can't go against his own nature (e.g. doing evil, changing, etc). He also gave up some power by allowing us free will. However, that's no reason to give Him any less love or respect. He created the universe, after all, and His grace is what allows us to not eternally die. Best part is, His grace is available to anyone who wants it.


He doesn't go against his own nature because wants us to trust him, how can you love or trust a God that goes against his own nature. He allowed us free will, so that we would love him, there is no love without free will.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

spiderman1216 said:


> I'm a Christian, and I don't  Also on omnipotent I think always existing kinda proves it. There is no reason in the bible that is given that shows that Jesus needed to summon armies, that God needed a flood, or that
> 
> But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always _be_ ready to _give_ a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
> *1 Peter 3:15*
> ...


If you want to convince people you need to stop quoting from the bible.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mech said:


> Aliens created the world, get it right


Alien can extend to many things.


----------



## spiderman1216 (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> If you want to convince people you need to stop quoting from the bible.


I quote the Bible because you, yourself accused me of this 
" but if you think it gives you the right to persecute any other religion, sexuality and alike you deserve to be wiped clean off the earth." 
I quoted that specific verse, I also used it, so people can't just simply blame Christianity for what happened in Europe.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Apr 19, 2017)

where are the anunnakies when you need em?


----------



## Wolfvak (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> If everyone in the world was dying, and you knew the cure, what kind of a monster would you have to be to not share it?


So you're saying religion is a cure? Lots of people would disagree with that...



evandixon said:


> As for the thread itself, if you don't like it you can simply not read it. It's not like it's doing you and harm.


Under normal circumstances I wouldn't even pay attention to this thread, or any others that are similar. Unfortunately, due to recent events it seems the forum has suffered a surge of shitposters and trolls that derail all political/religious discussions into either "Islam is wrong" or "Being non-straight is wrong". All of these threads end up getting deleted anyways.
This is a gaming discussion forum, not a virtual bay for flame wars.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

spiderman1216 said:


> I quote the Bible because you, yourself accused me of this
> " but if you think it gives you the right to persecute any other religion, sexuality and alike you deserve to be wiped clean off the earth."
> I quoted that specific verse, I also used it, so people can't just simply blame Christianity for what happened in Europe.


You keep showing me things that make me think Christian god is just a pathetic spirit trying to convince he is the actual God.
So are you perfectly fine with Eastern Europe reverting to Norse Religion then?
Edit: I shouldn't have said Germany there.


----------



## grossaffe (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> If everyone in the world was dying, and you knew the cure, what kind of a monster would you have to be to not share it?


Not a very apt analogy.  More like if you had a friend dying of cancer, and you'd heard about a witch doctor in Birani promising to cure the cancer for a price, how much would you pester him about it despite him telling you that it's nonsense?


----------



## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> ... but if you think it gives you the right to persecute any other religion, sexuality and alike you deserve to be wiped clean off the earth.





spiderman1216 said:


> *1 Peter 3:15*
> 
> The New Testament is pretty clear on this, you are not to hurt others regardless of religion. Jesus didn't hurt others, therefore you are not to do so.





Yil said:


> If you want to convince people you need to stop quoting from the bible.


> Accuses Christians of thinking they have the right to do something, then rejects the presented evidence that shows Christians aren't supposed to be doing that



Yil said:


> You keep showing me things that make me think Christian god is just a pathetic spirit trying to convince he is the actual God.


Which things specifically?

He's done things that baffle scientists to this day. Jesus cured someone of a "demon possession" who had all the signs of epilepsy. Also take the Shroud of Turin for example. It's the cloth Jesus was buried in (before he was resurrected), and it has a faint imprint on it, affecting only one layer of the threads (which can't be replicated with modern science).


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Its nothing personal, i don't follow any religion and never will but facts are facts.





mech said:


> Islam is a barbaric religion.





Facts like a small minority kills inncoents so all of them must be like that right?

Yeah keep dreaming bud


----------



## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Not a very apt analogy.  More like if you had a friend dying of cancer, and you'd heard about a witch doctor in Birani promising to cure the cancer for a price, how much would you pester him about it despite him telling you that it's nonsense?


If the friend in this analogy didn't want to go through with it, then that's his choice. But what sort of monster would the main character of this analogy have to be to not tell his friend?

Also, God gives eternal life to anyone who wants it; it's free. All you have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, allowing it to be possible, and to want to stop sinning.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Abu_Senpai said:


> Facts like a small minority kills inncoents so all of them must be like that right?
> 
> Yeah keep dreaming bud


The difference here is that Muhammad, the most "beautiful pattern of conduct" and central to Islam, is the one advocating the killing of innocents.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> If the friend in this analogy didn't want to go through with it, then that's his choice. But what sort of monster would the main character of this analogy have to be to not tell his friend?
> 
> Also, God gives eternal life to anyone who wants it; it's free. All you have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, allowing it to be possible, and to want to stop sinning.


Okay I was supposed to be more open-minded.
I do believe Jesus is beyond mortal man. If the lores are correct he might be the strongest avatar of any religion to walk the earth. But I don't find it enough to become his follower.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

If god is real, why cant anyone agree on a religion? It seems absured to me that if any form of all-powerful creator wanted us to follow his/her/its will, they wouldnt put forth more effort to make it known. How are we supposed to prevent ourselves from eternal hellfire or whatever, if we can't even be sure of what the rules are? The very fact of the variety of different beliefs shows to me that everyone just believes whatever makes them less scared of death. Even believers of the same religion have different views on it. Thats rediculous. I have nothing against religious people so long as youre not pushy about it and are a good person, but if you ask me people don't wanna accept that when you die, everything you know ceases to exist and you rot in the ground and are eaten by maggots. Not a pleasant thought, I can understand people's willingness to believe any fairy tale they hear that would suggest that this is not the case.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> If the friend in this analogy didn't want to go through with it, then that's his choice. But what sort of monster would the main character of this analogy have to be to not tell his friend?
> 
> Also, God gives eternal life to anyone who wants it; it's free. All you have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, allowing it to be possible, and to want to stop sinning.
> 
> ...


He is also the one who brought Slavery back to Islam.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MadMageKefka said:


> If god is real, why cant anyone agree on a religion? It seems absured to me that if any form of all-powerful creator wanted us to follow his/her/its will, they wouldnt put forth more effort to make it known. How are we supposed to prevent ourselves from eternal hellfire or whatever, if we can't even be sure of what the rules are? The very fact of the variety of different beliefs shows to me that everyone just believes whatever makes them less scared of death. Even believers of the same religion have different views on it. Thats rediculous. I have nothing against religious people so long as youre not pushy about it and are a good person, but if you ask me people don't wanna accept that when you die, everything you know ceases to exist and you rot in the ground and are eaten by maggots. Not a pleasant thought, I can understand people's willingness to believe any fairy tale they hear that would suggest that this is not the case.


Cause in many form of Polytheism Deism is a very prominent theme. The primodial deity of both Greek and Norse religion are long dead and then Christianity pops out and say he is the actual God without that kind of power to back him.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> If the friend in this analogy didn't want to go through with it, then that's his choice. But what sort of monster would the main character of this analogy have to be to not tell his friend?
> 
> Also, God gives eternal life to anyone who wants it; it's free. All you have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, allowing it to be possible, and to want to stop sinning.
> 
> ...




Yeah and when was that HUNDREDs of years ago. God modern sane muslims ie the majority see that hey look we live in a civilised socitey so that kinda behavior isnt needed. Plus its funny how you only point out the bad and not the good that the prophet  Muhammad did?

Im not saying Islam is perfect. No religion is perfect by 2017 standards but hey thats what they are religions. Its a personal belief between yourself and who you believe in.



Edit

also after reviewing your source let me say that its total rubbish and im not just saying that. it says islam doesnt accept or befriend other relgions when one of the quraanic verses explitcly states that Muslims MUST respect and get along with thise of opposing faiths since islams states that we all are right in a way

Why because the Quran is kinda of a sequel to the bible and the other 4 holy books. The only difference is that the bible was edited throughout history whereas the quraan was taken by god into heaven after the prophet died


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> You have no idea what you are talking about,




Wow how vague. 

I actually now islam quite well as well as a fair shair on Christianity. Thats not to brag ofcourse i just dont accept your bold statement


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> Yeah and when was that HUNDREDs of years ago. God modern sane muslims ie the majority see that hey look we live in a civilised socitey so that kinda behavior isnt needed. Plus its funny how you only point out the bad and not the good that the prophet  Muhammad did?
> 
> Im not saying Islam is perfect. No religion is perfect by 2017 standards but hey thats what they are religions. Its a personal belief between yourself and who you believe in.
> 
> ...


Middle east was doing just fine before Muhammad. I would even say they were steps ahead of Europe, Asia and Egypt.


----------



## grossaffe (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> If the friend in this analogy didn't want to go through with it, then that's his choice. But what sort of monster would the main character of this analogy have to be to not tell his friend?


Not a monster at all because witchdoctorism _is_ nonsense.  If it were legitimate, there would be proof and if there were proof, it would be widely practised medicine



> Also, God gives eternal life to anyone who wants it; it's free. All you have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, allowing it to be possible, and to want to stop sinning.


The moment you have to change the way you think, you've already paid a hefty price.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> Middle east was doing just fine before Muhammad. I would even say they were steps ahead of Europe, Asia and Egypt.




That has what do do with my point?

My point being Islam and the majority of its followers arent bad. Its in actuality just the minority of extremeist fucks who dont now what jihad really is


----------



## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

MadMageKefka said:


> If god is real, why cant anyone agree on a religion? It seems absured to me that if any form of all-powerful creator wanted us to follow his/her/its will, they wouldnt put forth more effort to make it known. How are we supposed to prevent ourselves from eternal hellfire or whatever, if we can't even be sure of what the rules are? The very fact of the variety of different beliefs shows to me that everyone just believes whatever makes them less scared of death. Even believers of the same religion have different views on it. Thats rediculous. I have nothing against religious people so long as youre not pushy about it and are a good person, but if you ask me people don't wanna accept that when you die, everything you know ceases to exist and you rot in the ground and are eaten by maggots. Not a pleasant thought, I can understand people's willingness to believe any fairy tale they hear that would suggest that this is not the case.


God and his former angel  Lucifer (now called Satan) had a falling out of sorts. Now Satan is doing all he can to spite God, including convincing humans to sin.


Yil said:


> He is also the one who brought Slavery back to Islam.


Muhummad is at best a man who can't tell the difference between the words of God and of Satan, and at worst a power-hungry con man. God had nothing to do with it.


grossaffe said:


> The moment you have to change the way you think, you've already paid a hefty price.


It's "changing the way you think" as in a thief or murderer realizing how wrong he was and seeking to never engage in that ever again (i.e. seeking God's will). That's not exactly a hefty price.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> That has what do do with my point?
> 
> My point being Islam and the majority of its followers arent bad. Its in actuality just the minority of extremeist fucks who dont now what jihad really is


I am not saying that all Muslims are evil, but that Middle East could have end up better without Islam. Considering the diversity of Paganism by the time there will not be a war large enough to wipe out everyone and peace was well established.


----------



## grossaffe (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> It's "changing the way you think" as in a thief or murderer realizing how wrong he was and seeking to never engage in that ever again (i.e. seeking God's will). That's not exactly a hefty price.


Theft and Murder are not the only sins according to Christianity.  There's a whole set of laws set forth, many of which are not quite so universally agreed upon in regards to their morality.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> God and his former angel  Lucifer (now called Satan) had a falling out of sorts. Now Satan is doing all he can to spite God, including convincing humans to sin.
> 
> Muhummad is at best a man who can't tell the difference between the words of God and of Satan, and at worst a power-hungry con man. God had nothing to do with it.
> 
> It's "changing the way you think" as in a thief or murderer realizing how wrong he was and seeking to never engage in that ever again (i.e. seeking God's will). That's not exactly a hefty price.


The world has existed before Judaism, with their own religion. The same name has even poped up in ancient Pagansim, and back then he has a wife who is much more powerful than her husband. Christmas was stolen from Pagansim, and neither Satan nor God is as powerful as they claim.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> I am not saying that all Muslims are evil, but that Middle East could have end up better without Islam. Considering the diversity of Paganism by the time there will not be a war large enough to wipe out everyone and peace was well established.



I disagree for like any religion islam has allowed for many people to find comfort in something.

Regardless of what you, me or anyone else on this thread believes of it


Both the bible and the Quraan have been twisted in the modern era. The quraan has been twisted by isis whereas the bible was changed throughout history

I now bad things have been done in Islams name . However havent good things been achieved too?

Who are we to judge which is most prominent of the two? That is why we have a God? regardless of whether we call him Allah,God,Zeus or Kirshna


----------



## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> Yeah and when was that HUNDREDs of years ago. God modern sane muslims ie the majority see that hey look we live in a civilised socitey so that kinda behavior isnt needed. Plus its funny how you only point out the bad and not the good that the prophet  Muhammad did?
> 
> Im not saying Islam is perfect. No religion is perfect by 2017 standards but hey thats what they are religions. Its a personal belief between yourself and who you believe in.
> 
> ...



I'm not saying all Muslims are that evil, I'm saying that Muhummad was. As for him doing good, anyone can do good, but doing good doesn't wipe away any evil done. The evil remains, and serves as a sharp contrast to what Jesus stood for.



Abu_Senpai said:


> Both the bible and the Quraan have been twisted in the modern era. The quraan has been twisted by isis whereas the bible was changed throughout history


How so? I've seen sources saying how the Bible is as accurate now as it was in the past.


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> That has what do do with my point?
> 
> My point being Islam and the majority of its followers arent bad. Its in actuality just the minority of extremeist fucks who dont now what jihad really is




That is the point you don't get, what you see as normal and fine is actually so backwards and needs changing.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> I disagree for like any religion islam has allowed for many people to find comfort in something.
> 
> Regardless of what you, me or anyone else on this thread believes of it
> 
> ...


That's the other thing. There is a hierarchy in Polytheism and Zeus is not on the top. There are greater deities than sky fathers. But we should consider unifying religion. On the othher hand if we can make avatars look weak compared to normal human, there won't be a need for religion at all. But that's another huge problem of everyone being overpowered.


----------



## evandixon (Apr 19, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Theft and Murder are not the only sins according to Christianity.  There's a whole set of laws set forth, many of which are not quite so universally agreed upon in regards to their morality.


Which ones are contested?


----------



## spotanjo3 (Apr 19, 2017)

Not interesting.. An atheist and Muslim have different point of view. No argument. No end and there is circle with endless anyway. Human being can be very complication and headaches. Nah.


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> That is the point you don't get, what you see as normal and fine is actually so backwards and needs changing.


I don't know well about GB but I suggest you looking back into GB's pagan roots. With all the Irish folklore creature there should be old gods.


----------



## osaka35 (Apr 19, 2017)

I do not believe in the supernatural. I do not believe in anything beyond the natural world. This makes me not believe there is any supernatural beings. Therefore I'm an atheist. A lack of a thing is not positive argument for anything.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> I'm not saying all Muslims are that evil, I'm saying that Muhummad was. As for him doing good, anyone can do good, but doing good doesn't wipe away any evil done. The evil remains, and serves as a sharp contrast to what Jesus stood for.
> 
> 
> How so? I've seen sources saying how the Bible is as accurate now as it was in the past.




The bible and its religion predates islam and Muslims believe and the quraan states that the bible and the other four holy books were changed since after the main prophet such as jesus of each book passed on. The books were taken by assholes who manipulated them to mert their own ends.

In regards to Muhammad. Most of what the source said was exactly what isis does. It nitpicks verses of the quraan or hadith and then uses it to back your claims. That isnt a factual source.

Muhammad and Jesus in islam are seen as role models like all the other prophets. Did muhammad do things that are not aloud in 2017. Yes but then again we cant argue about the charcter of someone who existed hundreds of years ago.

All we can do is look at both jesus and muhamad and learn from their good acts.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> That is the point you don't get, what you see as normal and fine is actually so backwards and needs changing.




So okay


I have friends irl who are gay. Does that mean being gay is wrong??
I believe rape is wrong should i believe the opposite?
I believe murder is terrible yet your saying im wrong?


please think before typing

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mech said:


> #Brainwashed lol




Its actually YOU who is brainwashed


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> So okay
> 
> 
> I have friends irl who are gay. Does that mean being gay is wrong??
> ...


There are some truth to all religions.


----------



## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> That has what do do with my point?
> 
> My point being Islam and the majority of its followers arent bad. Its in actuality just the minority of extremeist fucks who dont now what jihad really is



Your point being is opinion disproven repeatedly by opinion polling on benign things like homosexuality or any examination of the laws in countries where Islam is prevalent denying women basic rights.  You can't even get 50% of Muslims in Britain to reject death as a punishment for homosexuality, let alone places where they are a majority.

A small percentage would be like what we have in the west with the dozen people who go to the Westboro baptist church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ere-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death-2/


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> So okay
> 
> 
> I have friends irl who are gay. Does that mean being gay is wrong??
> ...



What has your opinion got to do with it? we are talking about the religion. I'm done with your stupidity.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

Yil said:


> There are some truth to all religions.




meaning?? what exactly?

im all up for a serious conversation.  I just dont want people like @mech to take the mick


----------



## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> #Brainwashed lol



Honestly, you don't seem to have any valuable input on the matter. So instead of trolling, just ignore this thread. This isn't a shitposting contest.


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

insidexdeath said:


> Honestly, you don't seem to have any valuable input on the matter. So instead of trolling, just ignore this thread. This isn't a shitposting contest.



Learn to read, view my other posts. moron.


----------



## grossaffe (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> Which ones are contested?


Personally, I'd argue all of them as I don't believe in objective morality.  If I were to just give a single example so as to prove a point, though, I'd go with Homosexuality.  According to the bible, it's punishable by death.  I find _that_ to be immoral, and by extension, the Christian god to be immoral if he did, in fact, exist.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> Your point being is opinion disproven repeatedly by opinion polling on benign things like homosexuality or any examination of the laws in countries where Islam is prevalent denying women basic rights.  You can't even get 50% of Muslims in Britain to reject death as a punishment for homosexuality, let alone places where they are a majority.
> 
> A small percentage would be like what we have in the west with the dozen people who go to the Westboro baptist church.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ere-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death-2/




Where did the stats come from?? Its public opinion. Do you see 50% of British muslims killing gay people. Name 50 muslims that have done so? Exactly none of them have


mech said:


> What has your opinion got to do with it? we are talking about the religion. I'm done with your stupidity.




No im done with yours. You refute to understand that as muslims we follow the example of the prophet and the guidance of the quraan.

Guiding and forcing one to do something are complete opposites


if the quraan says stone gay people are all musims going to do that?
why havent they? why arent all muslims doing it?

We are allowed to have our own opinions on things regardless of what our holy books state since they were written hundreds of years ago.

We live in a different era now


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> Where did the stats come from?? Its public opinion. Do you see 50% of British muslims killing gay people. Name 50 muslims that have done so? Exactly none of them have
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Our countries laws stop it, thats why.


----------



## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Learn to read, view my other posts. moron.


I did, and they're disrespectful. Also, calling me a moron does not really prove your point.

Learn to respect other people's beliefs.


----------



## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> Where did the stats come from?? Its public opinion. Do you see 50% of British muslims killing gay people. Name 50 muslims that have done so? Exactly none of them have
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Pew research, now tell me where you got your research the vast majority aren't a bunch of gay hating misogynists with a cultural normal acceptance of decapitation and public stoning.


----------



## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Cant respect barbaric religions, never will.


Then you're breaking GBAtemp's rules, or have you not read them?


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> Our countries laws stop it, thats why.




seriously? really? Londons mayor is a muslim yet he doesnt spew such drivel like killing gay people. Arent there muslims in places of law in both UK and USA yet neither of those people are pushing to have gay people killed or rape allowed


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

insidexdeath said:


> Then you're breaking GBAtemp's rules, or have you not read them?



You are not respecting my opinions now,

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Abu_Senpai said:


> seriously? really? Londons mayor is a muslim yet he doesnt spew such drivel like killing gay people. Arent there muslims in places of law in both UK and USA yet neither of those people are pushing to have gay people killed or rape allowed



Didnt realise he makes the UK's laws.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

mech said:


> You are not respecting my opinions now,
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...




okay then but the lawyers in parliment and the house of congress DO.

DONT see the muslims there saying such stuff


----------



## Yil (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> meaning?? what exactly?
> 
> im all up for a serious conversation.  I just dont want people like @mech to take the mick


Some of the teachings are usable at any time. You should always try to be kind and helpful, not do harmful things, etc. And some of them carried to modern law (let's forget corruption for a little while). Not all of them are perfect, and not all of them are completely false. We ourselves have multiple faces, and so does everything else. I can also go deeper into my religious view.


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> okay then but the lawyers in parliment and the house of congress DO.
> 
> DONT see the muslims there saying such stuff



We are going to have to agree to disagree because this is pointless.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> Pew research, now tell me where you got your research the vast majority aren't a bunch of gay hating misogynists with a cultural normal acceptance of decapitation and public stoning.




You provide no evidence aside from the fact that YEAH hundreds of years ago stoning and misogyny where popular but now our laws stop such things.

Why looks at the past? why not give me 2017 sources ? 

Exactly cause no one has been stoned. women both in islam and out of islam have gained equal rights to be who they want to be.

So i dont see how all muslims are like that since IF they were then believe me they would have prevented women from gaining rights, gays from being able to be wed and stoning to be a thing

but none of that has happened

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mech said:


> We are going to have to agree to disagree because this is pointless.




Okay thats perfectly cool. But hey look putting our opinions aside as a human being do you think of me as what you said all Muslims are like?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Yil said:


> Some of the teachings are usable at any time. You should always try to be kind and helpful, not do harmful things, etc. And some of them carried to modern law (let's forget corruption for a little while). Not all of them are perfect, and not all of them are completely false. We ourselves have multiple faces, and so does everything else. I can also go deeper into my religious view.




What is your religous view? by all means i do enjoy learning about other faiths and seeing how well they all intangle together sometimes.


----------



## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

Honestly, Islam needs reformation, or less violent scholars. The only religion that remained untouched is Islam. As much as people think that it still applies on the 21st century, I am inclined to disagree on that. There needs to be a reformation. Some Islamic countries don't even follow Sharia law, yet they pray 5 times a day, and they're turning out to be perfectly fine. Some countries partially implement it, and some fully implement it, like Saudi Arabia does. However, the KSA royals actually use the religion to their advantage to keep their people in check, and to maintain an image, which is fake.

I know this whole ISIS thing does not really represent Muslims, but a good number of them joined ISIS, and that goes back to their religious teachings, their culture, their families and people they looked up to. Also, the recent converts take every word in Islam literally, and that's also how we have many foreign fighters with ISIS too.


----------



## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> You provide no evidence aside from the fact that YEAH hundreds of years ago stoning and misogyny where popular but now our laws stop such things.
> 
> Why looks at the past? why not give me 2017 sources ?
> 
> ...




Didn't even realise you were Muslim, i thought we were talking about religions lol.


----------



## osaka35 (Apr 19, 2017)

Religions are dumb. Whether a person is dumb or not is probably independent of whether they believe in a religion though. Just shows a certain way of thinking, not of intelligence, to buy into the silly. Some people think GMOs are bad, but they're hardly idiots. They just don't understand how it works. It's normal and fine.

People who believe in a religions are free to do so but...I mainly just feel pity for them. I was there once. It sucks. Life is so much more meaningful and full without religion.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

evandixon said:


> God and his former angel Lucifer (now called Satan) had a falling out of sorts. Now Satan is doing all he can to spite God, including convincing humans to sin.


So because god and lucifer are having a pissing match, innocent humans should burn in eternal hellfire? That still doesnt explain why god has made no contact with mankind in over 2000 years. Shouldnt he warn us about lucifer so we dont suffer? Or does god just not care about us? Dont say he did warn us. The bible was written by humans thousands of years ago. God has spoken to man before, according to that book... Why can't he do it again?


----------



## Deleted User (Apr 19, 2017)

It's not like christians and other religions try to force everything down everyone's throats.
They're trying way too hard to manipulate somebody to believe in their religion.

i'm so sleepy, holy shit.


----------



## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

insidexdeath said:


> Honestly, Islam needs reformation, or less violent scholars. The only religion that remained untouched is Islam. As much as people think that it still applies on the 21st century, I am inclined to disagree on that. There needs to be a reformation. Some Islamic countries don't even follow Sharia law, yet they pray 5 times a day, and they're turning out to be perfectly fine. Some countries partially implement it, and some fully implement it, like Saudi Arabia does. However, the KSA royals actually use the religion to their advantage to keep their people in check, and to maintain an image, which is fake.
> 
> I know this whole ISIS thing does not really represent Muslims, but a good number of them joined ISIS, and that goes back to their religious teachings, their culture, their families and people they looked up to. Also, the recent converts take every word in Islam literally, and that's also how we have many foreign fighters with ISIS too.




Does islam need reforming in terms of Scholars YES. I too believe that the scholars are truly leading people astray. But not all of them are like that.
Your right about isis and right about the new converts part.

I also agree with the fact that SA royals do use the religion in some ways to their advantage but i havent carried out proper research there. (give me 20 years and when i do my Hajj i shall get back to ya XD)

However, if you mean reforming the actual quraan or hadith in the form of rewriting it then i disagree.

Regarding shariah law i will need to speak to my dad and carry out more research on that since at mosque we never were taught such a thing. It only seems to be a Middle east thing 

Being born and growing up in the west, i never came across Sharaih Law untill ISIS became a thing


mech said:


> Didn't even realise you were Muslim, i thought we were talking about religions lol.




Lol XP. I wouldnt have refuted your comments unless if i had actually grown up with islam since in doing so ive learnt how to distniguish the truth from the false.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Felek666 said:


> It's not like christians and other religions try to force everything down everyone's throats.
> They're trying way too hard to manipulate somebody to believe in their religion.
> 
> i'm so sleepy, holy shit.




Lots of religions do this and to my shame some people within islam are doing the same thing.

People should be allowed to believe in whatever they want as long as it isnt extremeism


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## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> It's not like christians and other religions try to force everything down everyone's throats.
> They're trying way too hard to manipulate somebody to believe in their religion.
> 
> i'm so sleepy, holy shit.


Lmao.... Christians dont try to force their beliefs on people? Pls. I dont have enough fingers and toes to count how many times they have done that to me personally. And other religions? ...have you seriously never heard of a jahovas witness? They literally go door to door trying to convert people.


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## Deleted User (Apr 19, 2017)

MadMageKefka said:


> Lmao.... Christians dont try to force their beliefs on people? Pls. I dont have enough fingers and toes to count how many times they have done that to me personally. And other religions? ...have you seriously never heard of a jahovas witness? They literally go door to door trying to convert people.


somebody can't read sarcasm it seems.


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## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

Felek666 said:


> somebody can't read sarcasm it seems.


To be fair, thats not always easy with text. We are in a thread talking about peoples beliefs, people say rediculous shit every 3rd post. Sorry.


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## ComeTurismO (Apr 19, 2017)

Some of the expressed views on this forum is actually quite disappointing to me-- 

Yes, religions do have their flaws. It has history that is dated back to several eras ago; and it is not true that everyone follows the practices done that were considered 'normal' in that society (Not saying that I support this type of view, first of all). But is it true that everyone (Muslims, Christians, any other follower of another religion) has the same stance today? No. In 2017, I really find it surprising that people STILL generalize each other as a whole. 

Please remember there are Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, or whatever who are peaceful; anti misogyny, educated, anti-terrorist, anti [insert race here] supremacist. I shouldn't have to say this. Yes; there are actions of many who think they are acting in the name of their religion; but that should be irrelevant. You people must understand it's the human and his or her mind. Not the faith he or she believes they are representing.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2017)

Meh. 
When it comes to stuff like this, this is the creed I adhere to:

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. "

Oh but don't mind me, carry on, thread. *eats popcorn.


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## osaka35 (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> Meh.
> When it comes to stuff like this, this is the creed I adhere to:
> 
> "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. "
> ...


I agree completely, but I'd add the sentiment "what is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" to it for clarity's sake.


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> You provide no evidence aside from the fact that YEAH hundreds of years ago stoning and misogyny where popular but now our laws stop such things.
> 
> Why looks at the past? why not give me 2017 sources ?
> 
> ...



No, they wouldn't Muslims have no sizeable majority any of the places that have rights for Gays & women, and when Muslims do have a sizeable population those rights don't exist.

I'm not looking at the past the only place where Stoning is still legal is Muslim countries and it is a routine occurrence.

There are 15 countries in which stoning is either practiced or authorized by law, even if it has never been practiced. In *Iran*, *Mauritania*, *Nigeria* (in one-third of the country's states), *Pakistan*, *Qatar*, *Saudi Arabia*, *Somalia*, *Sudan*, the *United Arab Emirates*, and *Yemen*, stoning is a legal punishment.

If you want the video evidence send me a request via PM and I will keep your inbox filled for the next year.


To claim their is any parity at all when it comes to respect for basic human rights, life, freedom between Muslims and the rest of the world is spitting in the face of every person on the planet where women can drive, not get stoned to death, doesn't have FGM, be-headings, or a cultural acceptance of "Killing the infidels".

Stop trying to claim Buddhists are just as likely to chop someones head off, it's a bigoted a lie.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 19, 2017)

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but it sure isn't evidence of existence either.

There isn't a single logical reason to believe in any God. Not even one.

To convince me that there's a God all I need is some solid evidence. I don't think that's unreasonable.

If you ask a religious person what it would take to convince them that there is no God, chances are they'll say it's not possible. That already tells you that something fishy is going on.

Religion gives you all the answers so you don't ask questions.


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## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

Lmao.... No evidence. News flash: carbon dating is a thing. Evolution is a proven fact. The problem is stubborn people, not lack of evidence. We know humans existed long before Christianity says they did. I don't know as much about other religions, so I can't comment on when they think humans were created.


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## Deleted User (Apr 19, 2017)

/full atheism
Religion was created by us and passed down by ages.
Your Jesus, Buddha etc. is just our imagination.
We still don't know answers to common, yet dumb questions like "Which was first? Chicken or Egg?" or "What was created first? Space or Planet?". Religion answers these pretty easily and puts us at ease.
Religion also provides some dumb stuff such as "Apocalypse", "Proving love for a god" etc.

If Moon covers Sun for 5s, you will not see "demons" "Satan" or "Jesus" or even your "Buddha".
But who i can teach, right? Bible is a novel created by many humans and passed through the years. You never know when it was finished.

aaannnddd that's all i had to write.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2017)

invaderyoyo said:


> Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but it sure isn't evidence of existence either.
> 
> There isn't a single logical reason to believe in any God. Not even one.
> 
> ...


*Absence of evidence* isn't evidence of absence, but *it sure isn't* *evidence of existence either.*
Thank you for repeating the first part of my creed. That is because there is no evidence of its existence.
Which comes back to the second part of the sentence. Doesn't mean it is evidence of absence.

Note that I don't care whether it exists or not.
It just means I am not going to say that it does not exist because there is no proof of it.

In any case, whether or not God exists, has no effect on my life. If it exists, hooray. If it does not, hooray again.


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## CosmoCortney (Apr 19, 2017)

Today I was in Frankfurt am Main and there were 2 Christians talking to strainers and talking about sins and people were really annoyed lol
I as an Atheist think everyone should believe, life and think the way they want as long as they accept everyone's way of believe or non-believe and get along well and don't force someone to believe or not to believe in something. If I understood the Bible right it tells everyone has their own autonomy and it's a sin to force someone to believe in something. 
Aren't we all born atheist and tough a religion?
I have Christian and Muslim friends and get along very well


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> *Absence of evidence* isn't evidence of absence, but *it sure isn't* *evidence of existence either.*
> Thank you for repeating the first part of my creed. That is because there is no evidence of its existence.
> Which comes back to the second part of the sentence. Doesn't mean it is evidence of absence.
> 
> ...


I repeated it on purpose. That statement can be applied to any crazy idea. It doesn't mean anything.


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## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> No, they wouldn't Muslims have no sizeable majority any of the places that have rights for Gays & women, and when Muslims do have a sizeable population those rights don't exist.
> 
> I'm not looking at the past the only place where Stoning is still legal is Muslim countries and it is a routine occurrence.
> 
> ...




My point is that the majority do not practice it. We cant change the laws of those 15 countries.

Believe me i wish we could since id rather have life in prision than be stoned to death.

But that is why i agreed to some of the things the user above said about reforming islam. If we could reform islam by abolishing the stoning laws then well that would benefit many.

Regardless of whether their legal in those 15 countries. Answer me this how many a year die via stoning?

I agree that these laws in the 15 countries are wrong but what do you want me to do? Say islam is to blame? or are the people in charge of the 15 countries to blame for allowing such laws that were used in past socities to be allowed in the modern era.


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## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

I like how everyone ignored my post about carbon dating. Hurr durr science. No evidence.... What a joke.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2017)

invaderyoyo said:


> I repeated it on purpose. That statement can be applied to any crazy idea. It doesn't mean anything.


Ofc it can. This is why I said on this matter of religion, not on every other ideas.

This creed is mostly applied when there is no proof of something disapproving its existence. Not when something is flat out wrong. (I.E, the existence of a square planet, for example.)


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

Abu_Senpai said:


> My point is that the majority do not practice it. We cant change the laws of those 15 countries.
> 
> Believe me i wish we could since id rather have life in prision than be stoned to death.
> 
> ...




You can't claim it needs to be reformed, while trying to claim a pairity between the rest of the world when it comes to human rights.  Your previous posts flat out denied there was any problems to be reformed.

There is no "we" there is THEY need to reform and until they do stay the fuck out of Western civilization.



MadMageKefka said:


> Lmao.... Christians dont try to force their beliefs on people? Pls. I dont have enough fingers and toes to count how many times they have done that to me personally. And other religions? ...have you seriously never heard of a jahovas witness? They literally go door to door trying to convert people.



You really need to evaluate that word force, offering you a pamphlet is an attempt to _persuade_. Force is tax, or threaten you violence like they do in Islamic countries.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> Ofc it can. This is why I said on this matter of religion, not on every other ideas.
> 
> This creed is mostly applied when there is no proof of something disapproving its existence. Not when something is flat out wrong. (I.E, the existence of a square planet, for example.)


Why does religion get special treatment as opposed to other ideas?


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## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> You can't claim it needs to be reformed, while trying to claim a pairity between the rest of the world when it comes to human rights.  Your previous posts flat out denied there was any problems to be reformed.
> 
> 
> 
> You really need to evaluate that word force, offering you a pamphlet is an attempt to _persuade_. Force is tax, or threaten you violence like they do in Islamic countries.


Bothering me at dinner, at my own house to talk to me about god is not something I appreciate. Nothing a restraining order didnt fix.


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## Abu_Senpai (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> You can't claim it needs to be reformed, while trying to claim a pairity between the rest of the world when it comes to human rights.  Your previous posts flat out denied there was any problems to be reformed.
> 
> 
> 
> You really need to evaluate that word force, offering you a pamphlet is an attempt to _persuade_. Force is tax, or threaten you violence like they do in Islamic countries.




there are no problems in the WEST let me clarify.
The middle east needs reformation through abolishimg such laws. Yet again thats not me admitting that all middle easterners rape and stone people since they do not. 

That is all


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## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2017)

invaderyoyo said:


> Why does religion get special treatment as opposed to other ideas?


I don't call it special treatment. 
A lot of things in science has been subject to the sentence I mentioned until an evidence of a particular idea was found, where the sentence no longer applies because the proof of said idea completely discourages arguments that flat out counters it. For example: the fact that the Earth is spherical.

A lot of religious ideas in how nature works has been dismissed because of these advancements. Even inside religious communities.

As for a super entity that laid down the law on how nature works, well, there are no proof of it existing, but there are no proof of it not existing. 
That is why I don't bother arguing with anyone else about it. Because it always ends off in a stalemate.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MadMageKefka said:


> I like how everyone ignored my post about carbon dating. Hurr durr science. No evidence.... What a joke.


I ignored it because it was not relevant on the matter. 

Carbon dating? It is a real thing. 
Evolution? Hell yeah, it has been proven and it is easy to prove to someone using bacteria, antibiotics and a petri dish. 
So what was your point?


----------



## Hurtz007 (Apr 19, 2017)

John_Kirky said:


> I think you misunderstand Atheism. It is not a religion and it is not authoritarian (there is no Atheist-Pope... No elected leader of the Atheist movement...)
> I would not call myself an atheist... simply because it is no faith. It's simply that I do not have a faith. and why should I? There is absolutely no proof of god.
> None, nada. Nobody in their right mind would for example say he Round-Earther... because he does not support the Flat-Earth Theory. That is because the Flat-Earth Theory
> is so idiotic that nobody even bothers to dispute it. Same as religion. Why bother to dispute it? It is a load of bullshit.
> ...



YAAASSS!!! This is the best expression of my viewpoint on religion I've ever had pleasure to lay my eyes upon!


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## Deleted-355425 (Apr 19, 2017)

What's an interesting point is do all religions accept  other religions?


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Apr 19, 2017)

Tired of politics and religions getting in the way of everything.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> I don't call it special treatment.
> A lot of things in science has been subject to the sentence I mentioned until an evidence of a particular idea was found, where the sentence no longer applies because the proof of said idea completely discourages arguments that flat out counters it. For example: the fact that the Earth is spherical.
> 
> A lot of religious ideas in how nature works has been dismissed because of these advancements. Even inside religious communities.
> ...


No, science is based on observation and experimentation. 

People that first assumed the Earth was spherical observed that the masts of ships were visible on the horizon before the rest of the ship. There was evidence.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2017)

invaderyoyo said:


> No, science is based on observation and experimentation.
> 
> People that first assumed the Earth was spherical observed that the masts of ships were visible on the horizon before the rest of the ship. There was evidence.


Indeed that is true. Should have picked an idea that is more challenging to prove as an example. Since even by looking at how days and season work, such an assumption could have been made, I think.


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## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> You can't claim it needs to be reformed, while trying to claim a pairity between the rest of the world when it comes to human rights.  Your previous posts flat out denied there was any problems to be reformed.
> 
> There is no "we" there is THEY need to reform and until they do stay the fuck out of Western civilization.



For your information, Christianity was reformed, and the evidence to that are multiple versions of the bible itself. There is far more toleration than there was back in the dark ages. Islam is also currently living its own version of the dark age, and while many of these acts committed under the name of the religion is proven in the Quran and sharia law, many muslims themselves do not necessarily agree with these kind of measures.

The countries you have mentioned (in a previous comment) are living under dictatorship, and the citizens have no choice but to abide by the laws implemented by their authoritarian regimes. In all fairness, most, if not all of the Islamic countries are undemocratic nations. Therefore, their regimes do not necessarily represent their citizens, and neither do their laws. You see they do not have a congress or a parliament to make any amendments, like we do. It is just a one man job in there.

I do see your point though regarding how violence is spreading rapidly. The so called 'respected' Islamic scholars in many Arab countries specifically the ones in the KSA, and Iran do preach violence, and call for it. They make it their aim to enforce their ideology (Wahhabism, and Shism) regardless of the consequences, and they are able to do that, because the governments of these two countries provide full protection to them.

I still stand by what I said. Reformation is necessary, and the sooner the better. The world has endured enough violence from religion, and it is time for everyone to live peacefully regardless of their belief.


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## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

GhostLatte said:


> Hopefully this popcorn I have will last until this thread gets locked.


These irrelevant posts will be the reason why this thread gets locked.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> Indeed that is true. Should have picked an idea that is more challenging to prove as an example. Since even by looking at how days and season work, such an assumption could have been made, I think.


That's why I'm asking why you'd treat religion like it's a special idea.


----------



## Slattz (Apr 19, 2017)

Just gonna drop in my opinion:
I personally don't believe in any god or 'being' or the such. Imo (mainly about the Roman Catholic church), if there is no actual proof of a 'God' being real except some book that has been altered many times to suit whoever, then there is no 'God'. People that say they speak to angels don't count either. Plus out of all the planets in the galaxy (not even universe), why would 'God' pick such a puny,worthless planet such as Earth? If he created the human race, he could have easily made the human race to adapt to a better planet, etc. And I wont even get into how the bible basically says there was no such thing as dinosaurs or anything before the human race (I'm talking about evolution, just a hint for the slow people here). There's a thing called carbon dating & fossils 

This is just my opinion, I'd rather people not shove their religion down my throat in a reply, I'm happy as I am thanks.

Also, inb4 thread gets deleted/locked.


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## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

insidexdeath said:


> For your information, Christianity was reformed, and the evidence to that are multiple versions of the bible itself. There is far more toleration than there was back in the dark ages. Islam is also currently living its own version of the dark age, and while many of these acts committed under the name of the religion is proven in the Quran and sharia law, many muslims themselves do not necessarily agree with these kind of measures.



That's right Christianity did reform, And Muslims are living in the Dark ages and why they have no business living in the modern west.

And if so many disagree, maybe they need to get off their ass and fix it.  Everyone else in the world has, maybe CAIR could devote half the time they spend attacking people who complain about them.  If they can hold a celebratory rally when a Jihadist kills people they can hold a rally to stop it but I wont be holding my breath waiting for that.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> I don't call it special treatment.
> A lot of things in science has been subject to the sentence I mentioned until an evidence of a particular idea was found, where the sentence no longer applies because the proof of said idea completely discourages arguments that flat out counters it. For example: the fact that the Earth is spherical.
> 
> A lot of religious ideas in how nature works has been dismissed because of these advancements. Even inside religious communities.
> ...


My point is that those parts of that religion are wrong, people who think that "oh, its a different time now..." So... Are they saying that god was wrong back then? Adam and Eve arent real? Do you see my point yet? No one can agree on anything, and once something in religion is disproven, people just say "so what? The rest of it is still true." Thats bullshit. People are just stubborn and gullible. God is supposedly infallible, so why was he wrong?


----------



## insidexdeath (Apr 19, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> That's right Christianity did reform, And Muslims are living in the Dark ages and why they have no business living in the modern west.
> 
> And if so many disagree, maybe they need to get off their ass and fix it.  Everyone else in the world has, maybe CAIR could devote half the time they spend attacking people who complain about them.  If they can hold a celebratory rally when a Jihadist kills people they can hold a rally to stop it but I wont be holding my breath waiting for that.


That's because people CAN hold a celebratory rally, but others cannot protest against it without getting killed. I mentioned dictatorship being a factor in this in my previous comment.

The difference between us and them is that we do have a freedom of speech, and criticism is healthy. On their end, neither freedom of speech or criticism is allowed, unless you want to be killed.


----------



## smf (Apr 19, 2017)

MadMageKefka said:


> We know humans existed long before Christianity says they did.



"Christianity" isn't so easily defeated.

http://www.icr.org/article/how-old-earth-according-bible/

"Of course the genealogies only begin with the creation of Adam, so the question of time before Adam remains. As has been well noted on these pages, the six days of Creation Week must be of the same length as our days. We recognize, however, that the Hebrew word _yom_, translated "day," can have a variety of meanings, including an indefinite period of time. Thus, some have suggested that these six days might then be equated with the billions of years claimed by geologists."

Personally if the bible is open to interpretation then I think that it fails as the word of god.

Supposedly Adam was 930 when he died.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Apr 19, 2017)

smf said:


> "Christianity" isn't so easily defeated.
> 
> http://www.icr.org/article/how-old-earth-according-bible/
> 
> ...


Wow, more changes to the views on the bible to use as an excuse as to why science says its full of shit. What a shock. Never seen this before. /sarcasm

I like the last part of what you said, though. Thats basically my point.


----------



## jimbo13 (Apr 19, 2017)

insidexdeath said:


> That's because people CAN hold a celebratory rally, but others cannot protest against it without getting killed. I mentioned dictatorship being a factor in this in my previous comment.
> 
> The difference between us and them is that we do have a freedom of speech, and criticism is healthy. On their end, neither freedom of speech or criticism is allowed, unless you want to be killed.



Quit denying them basic agency in the choices they make as a culture, they aren't children or MR.


When given Democracy, as a culture they reject it. Muslims in the U.K routinely protest Democracy.


----------



## grossaffe (Apr 19, 2017)

MadMageKefka said:


> I like how everyone ignored my post about carbon dating. Hurr durr science. No evidence.... What a joke.


Well for one, there are many who accept evolution and religion.  Also, you should switch your argument to a more general radiological dating since carbon dating is but one of the dating methods we use and is only really effective to about 50,000 years.


----------



## osaka35 (Apr 19, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> Ofc it can. This is why I said on this matter of religion, not on every other ideas.
> 
> This creed is mostly applied when there is no proof of something disapproving its existence. Not when something is flat out wrong. (I.E, the existence of a square planet, for example.)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

imagine a man claiming that there is a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars. The teapot is too small for us to see, and, since we can’t journey out into space to find it, there’s no way to show that the teapot isn’t actually there. There is no evidence of its existence. That doesn't we couldn't somehow find it, but there is zero reason to give the thought weight or merit. It is false until proven otherwise, not "well, it could be, why not".


----------



## gamefan5 (Apr 19, 2017)

MadMageKefka said:


> My point is that those parts of that religion are wrong, people who think that "oh, its a different time now..." So... Are they saying that god was wrong back then? Adam and Eve arent real? Do you see my point yet? No one can agree on anything, and once something in religion is disproven, people just say "so what? The rest of it is still true." Thats bullshit. People are just stubborn and gullible. God is supposedly infallible, so why was he wrong?


Don't get me wrong, tales and despictions of religions are not real and are merely concepts of life. But I don't see how it still disproves the idea of a higher entity existing. Even if its existence as our current despiction of God, is flat out unscientific in our current definition of science.



invaderyoyo said:


> That's why I'm asking why you'd treat religion like it's a special idea.


I have another despiction that may be better. This time, it is about aliens.
Some people hold the idea that there is life in other parts if the Universe while others do not because we have not seen them yet. We have an absence of evidence of aliens,  but that does not mean that it is an evidence of absence of them.

Curious question, while many tales of despictions of life in many religions have been proven to not be real, has there been any kind of proof that there is an absence of an entity higher than ourselves governing the Universe? We have not observed it yet, but the fact that there are no observations of it in question, should not be a reason to entirely dismiss its question of its existance, if there is no convincing proof that completely disapproves the very idea of its existance.

Of course, feel free to disagree with that thinking. A lot of people believe that the very absence of proof is proof enough. But personally, I am the type that likes to keep an open mind... Unless it really does not make sense, of course.

Hope I explained it well...

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osaka35 said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
> 
> imagine a man claiming that there is a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars. The teapot is too small for us to see, and, since we can’t journey out into space to find it, there’s no way to show that the teapot isn’t actually there. There is no evidence of its existence. That doesn't we couldn't somehow find it, but there is zero reason to give the thought weight or merit. It is false until proven otherwise, not "well, it could be, why not".


But that is simply absurd!! XD 
I understand that POV though.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 20, 2017)

gamefan5 said:


> Don't get me wrong, tales and despictions of religions are not real and are merely concepts of life. But I don't see how it still disproves the idea of a higher entity existing. Even if its existence as our current despiction of God, is flat out unscientific in our current definition of science.
> 
> 
> I have another despiction that may be better. This time, it is about aliens.
> ...


Aliens are different because we already know life can exist somewhere in space. We are proof. The universe is so big and planets with similar conditions to ours have been observed. It is completely reasonable to believe it could happen somewhere else.

There is nothing to disprove a supernatural power, but that doesn't matter at all. Like I said before, many crazy ideas can't be disproven, but that doesn't mean they deserve even a second thought. Again, why does any religion deserve a second thought?

Here's something else to think about. Say I change my mind and decide to believe in God and that he made everything. What have I answered? Absolutely nothing because I just added a new unknown to replace another one. Now, I'm left with a new question. What is God and how does he/she/it work?


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## gamefan5 (Apr 20, 2017)

invaderyoyo said:


> Aliens are different because we already know life can exist somewhere in space. We are proof. The universe is so big and planets with similar conditions to ours have been observed. It is completely reasonable to believe it could happen somewhere else.
> 
> There is nothing to disprove a supernatural power, but that doesn't matter at all. Like I said before, many crazy ideas can't be disproven, but that doesn't mean they deserve even a second thought. Again, why does any religion deserve a second thought?
> 
> Here's something else to think about. Say I change my mind and decide to believe in God and that he made everything. What have I answered? Absolutely nothing because I just added a new unknown to replace another one. Now, I'm left with a new question. What is God and how does he/she/it work?


I like your answer. 
Glad to see I went further to see your point of view more clearly.
And with the Russell's Teapot analogy, it begins to see why the sentence may not work for when it comes to anything related to supernatural forces.


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## Reyn_the_Insane (Apr 20, 2017)

If I can offer my two cents, atheism is a religion. Religion is dedicating your life to a belief and a way you view the world. With atheism, you've dedicated your life in believing something, and that belief being you don't believe in a god or divine entity. You've decided to do whatever the hell you please, without thinking about the possible consequences. Whereas Christians love all people regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference (even though there are some mentally retarded Christians out there who call homosexuals horrendous things, contradicting their love, therefore not making them true Christians) and don't enforce their religion upon people (COUGHISLAMCOUGHRADICALISLAMICTERRORISMCOUGH).


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## grossaffe (Apr 20, 2017)

Reyn_the_Insane said:


> If I can offer my two cents, atheism is a religion. Religion is dedicating your life to a belief and a way you view the world. With atheism, you've dedicated your life in believing something, and that belief being you don't believe in a god or divine entity. You've decided to do whatever the hell you please, without thinking about the possible consequences. Whereas Christians love all people regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference (even though there are some mentally retarded Christians out there who call homosexuals horrendous things, contradicting their love, therefore not making them true Christians) and don't enforce their religion upon people (COUGHISLAMCOUGHRADICALISLAMICTERRORISMCOUGH).


Well that was a completely unbiased comparison and contrast between Christians, Muslims, and Atheists.  I have trouble figuring out which one you are a member of.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 20, 2017)

Reyn_the_Insane said:


> If I can offer my two cents, atheism is a religion. Religion is dedicating your life to a belief and a way you view the world. With atheism, you've dedicated your life in believing something, and that belief being you don't believe in a god or divine entity. You've decided to do whatever the hell you please, without thinking about the possible consequences. Whereas Christians love all people regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference (even though there are some mentally retarded Christians out there who call homosexuals horrendous things, contradicting their love, therefore not making them true Christians) and don't enforce their religion upon people (COUGHISLAMCOUGHRADICALISLAMICTERRORISMCOUGH).


Atheism is a religion in the same way that not smoking is an addiction. There are Christians that are jerks and there are Christians that are kind. The same applies to Atheists. Please don't make sweeping generalizations.


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## Aurora Wright (Apr 20, 2017)

Atheism is basically "I don't believe it until I see it" (which is basically the scientific method, skepticism until something is proven). If a divine entity showed proof of its existence I would believe in it. Until then, I stick with "it's quite improbable". And when it comes to organized religion which has been historically used to obtain power and control people (so the abrahamic religions and probably others) I'm even more skeptical because there's even more likeliness that they were created by men for this purpose.


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## Reyn_the_Insane (Apr 20, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Well that was a completely unbiased comparison and contrast between Christians, Muslims, and Atheists.  I have trouble figuring out which one you are a member of.


Okay, maybe I was a little biased. I don't think that all Muslims are radical, but you can't call yourself a Muslim if you aren't, just like you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't love unconditionally. There are hateful Christians and there are kind Muslims, but neither of which are faithful to their religion, therefore you can't call yourself one.


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## grossaffe (Apr 20, 2017)

Reyn_the_Insane said:


> Okay, maybe I was a little biased. I don't think that all Muslims are radical, but you can't call yourself a Muslim if you aren't, just like you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't love unconditionally. There are hateful Christians and there are kind Muslims, but neither of which are faithful to their religion, therefore you can't call yourself one.


Muslims don't have the right to call themselves Muslims if they're kind?  With this kind of hate, by your own definition, I don't think you qualify as a Christian.


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## gamefan5 (Apr 20, 2017)

Reyn_the_Insane said:


> Okay, maybe I was a little biased. I don't think that all Muslims are radical, but you can't call yourself a Muslim if you aren't, *just like you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't love unconditionally.* There are hateful Christians and there are kind Muslims, but neither of which are faithful to their religion, therefore you can't call yourself one.


Good lord, than by nature, no one is truly Christian in the world.

If you actualy consider yourself as one, you do not even qualify as a Christian, simply by your post.


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## Reyn_the_Insane (Apr 20, 2017)

grossaffe said:


> Muslims don't have the right to call themselves Muslims if they're kind?  With this kind of hate, by your own definition, I don't think you qualify as a Christian.


It's not hate. I love the Muslim people, but I hate their beliefs. I love gay people, but I don't agree with their decision. I can call myself a toaster all I want, but since I don't toast bread, I'm not a toaster, yet I still call myself one. It's the same concept. You call yourself a Muslim, but do you practice radical Islam? If not, you're not a Muslim. You call yourself a Christian, but you support gay marriage. Homosexuality is condemned in the bible, therefore, you're not Christian.


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## grossaffe (Apr 20, 2017)

Reyn_the_Insane said:


> It's not hate. I love the Muslim people, but I hate their beliefs. I love gay people, but I don't agree with their decision. I can call myself a toaster all I want, but since I don't toast bread, I'm not a toaster, yet I still call myself one. It's the same concept. You call yourself a Muslim, but do you practice radical Islam? If not, you're not a Muslim. You call yourself a Christian, but you support gay marriage. Homosexuality is condemned in the bible, therefore, you're not Christian.


The bible commands you to kill homosexuals.  How can you be a Christian if you do not follow through on that?


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## Issac (Apr 20, 2017)

I'm keeping an eye on this thread. 

Just know that I won't delete posts just because they're moronic.

/ mod


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## s157 (Apr 20, 2017)

Issac said:


> I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
> 
> Just know that I won't delete posts just because they're moronic.
> 
> / mod



There's valid arguments being made here. Surprisingly a lot more than what I expected from this type of thread. Lets hope it doesn't get drowned out in shit.


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## SG854 (Apr 20, 2017)

When it comes to morals I don't need religion, I get my morals from Disney films and children's books. From Pinocchio, Pocahontas, Beaty and the Beast, The Lion King, Barney and Friends, Humpty Dumpty. Pinocchio is great with not lying. Who needs religion when I follow the teachings of Mickey Mouse. I get all the morals I need from an imaginary rat. Never needed religion, never will.


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## Haider Raza (Apr 20, 2017)

WOh! This thread gone mad. Lots of atheists got offended by these videos. I don't know what offended them?!

People these videos are for open minded ones. Not for the haters. If you have watched the videos wasn't it fact & reason conversation? You have no proof about there is no God. You got no proof of how your existence came from nothing. You only know the Big Bang but you don't how it came to exist. You think this complex world, This complex design of yours came from nothing. That's very arrogant & ignorant way of thinking.


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## Veho (Apr 20, 2017)

Haider Raza, you claim you want to "discuss" topics, but then insult or ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you. If you post something, expect people to express differing opinions. If you don't want to hear differing opinions, don't start the conversation in the first place.


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