# Games You SHOULDN'T Buy #3 - Pokémon X and Y



## Ryukouki (Jun 2, 2014)

​

​Well, guys, welcome to another article in the series of _Games You SHOULDN'T Buy! _Based on comments addressed in the first two articles, a lot of you guys liked the idea but wanted to see more recent titles being discussed, which is a more than valid concern, as I just wanted to see how I could shape this series and bring it together. And so, up for discussion is _Pokémon X and Y_ for the Nintendo 3DS. Why would I choose this title? Despite the critical acclaim the game has garnered from both the media and fans alike, the millions of sales that the title had earned, and the hype the games had generated, the title still falls short of actually moving forward the franchise and instead takes a few steps backward. So put away the pitchforks and torches, they're out of stock anyway at the local hardware stores. Let's jump into this animal, shall we?​​[prebreak]Continue reading[/prebreak]​​_Pokémon X and Y _are held dear to a lot of players' hearts. The title sold approximately four million in the first weekend if I recall correctly. The game had almost ten months to hype the players out, showing battles taking place with polygonal sprite models, with natural animations. The over world had fans crying for release. Everything about the title looked amazing. It finally looked like Game Freak was taking the game in the right direction. For the most part, the title actually did do some things right.​​Going in the right direction...​For us readers here, who range from the casual player to the fiercely competitive, _Pokémon X and Y _catered to the majority of its player base. There were a number of mechanics that were streamlined to make the game more appealing. One of those mechanics was breeding and EV/IV training. In past titles, EV training was considered one of the most mundane jobs, involving the player chasing down thousands of the same creature to boost their creature's values to make them marginally competitive. This process could take dozens of hours for a single Pokémon, which resulted in a maxed out save file for the hardcore player. In _Pokémon X and Y, _with the introduction of the Super Training mechanic, EV training could be completed in minutes by playing mini games on the touch screen. There were items that were also useful for breeders to maximize the IVs a Pokémon had, which brought the process down to tedium, rather than luck. In addition, social play was an element that _Pokémon X and Y _emphasized on, which made the experience much more enjoyable.​​Social play always felt like a huge part of the franchise. The earliest games involved trading creatures with friends in order to have a sense of completeness with a collection. Now, with hundreds of creatures to collect, trading had become more streamlined, if not fun, with the addition of the Wonder Trade feature. There is a whole portion of the bottom screen dedicated to the Player Search System (PSS) feature. In the PSS interface, players could trade a critter and receive a random one in return, adding an element of community to an already community-related title. There were forums and sub-reddits dedicated to the trade of creatures, often left behind in the pursuit of a successful breeding session, to "pay it forward" to other players who may have been wanting to search for random creatures. I sometimes even saw legendary Pokémon in my trade sessions. Players could competitively battle anywhere and anytime without the need for the Pokémon centers, which was a huge step up. Visually, the games had stepped up from its predecessors, but that should be a given since it was the first title that appeared on the Nintendo 3DS, which had superior hardware to its DS predecessor.​​

_You'll be using this a lot here. It's actually a lot of fun here._​​Visually, the titles are the best in the franchise thus far. The overworld is three-dimensional, but not pop out three-dimensional with the 3DS effect enabled. Attention to detail was given to a lot of these environments. They felt natural and they belonged. The music of the game was also orchestrated for the first time (though some of these tunes are rather unremarkable, sad to say) which was a delight to some players, yet some tunes had been mixed in their reception, notably the Gym leader theme, which felt out of place in the title. Finally, player characterization in the title made the character unique and not some blank slate that had been provided in the previous titles.​​

​In _Pokémon X and Y_, customization was introduced to give characters a somewhat unique appearance. From the beginning, you were able to customize skin tones and early into the game, players were allowed to shop at boutiques to change up their wardrobe. I'm definitely going to say that I feel a bit of bias was given to the female character, who had a lot more stylish clothing than the male character. The male clothing was a bit distasteful for my standards, but that's a minor gripe in the long haul.​​

_It's a shame that males had very little hairstyle options..._​​...and then taking a few steps back - What makes these titles not a good purchase?​These titles felt rather rushed. Personally, I would have appreciated it if Game Freak took a few more months of development as I felt these titles were rushed. Even though critics and fans hailed the titles as saviors and gave it critical acclaim, for me, it just didn't work out for me. First and foremost - the Pokémon themselves.​​The games introduced about 70 new critters to the franchise. The title was introduced on January 8, 2013, with a release of October 12th, 2013. In the ten months that the game had to develop, most of the critters were already introduced by the time the game had been released, through Nintendo Directs or by following the _Coro Coro! _magazines that released in Japan every month. When release day came around, most of them had already been shown, thus taking away the fun of really discovering what finding new critters in a new region was all about. A lot of the designs felt unoriginal, but even so, were much better than the Generation V counterparts. I also felt that Mega Evolutions, while they're a cool gimmick, took away from the evolutions that some Pokémon really needed. For example, Pinsir and Heracross. Competitively, the two are amazing to have, but they could have been given so much more in the form of a permanent evolution. And the idea of only Blaziken getting a Mega Evolution while Sceptile and Swampert are left in the dust really irks me. Hopefully with the release of _Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire_, that gets rectified. Furthermore, the difficulty felt reduced and much easier than previous generations.​​Difficulty is always hard to properly talk about in Pokémon titles. They're childrens' games, many say, but these felt a bit dumbed down, even with the Exp. Share item turned off. One stark example is the Elite Four of this generation, who each only held four Pokémon, and gym leaders, who restricted themselves to three Pokémon each. They felt stunted. The culmination of the training felt like a waste as I easily struck them down. Not to mention the Champion was a bit underwhelming, as I used to like struggling against the champion in a rather epic battle. This game, I was spamming the same moves on my Greninja non-stop and stopped the Champion in her tracks within minutes, without using items. And since we're talking about the Elite Four here, what happens after beating them?​​

_Way too easy this generation..._​​Sadly, the answer to this question is not much, assuming we are talking about new content here. There could always be things to do: breeding, completing the Pokédex, competitive battle, but for new content, it felt stark and empty. The post game felt extremely lacking in this game. It's a fact that most Pokémon games that aren't based in the Johto region would have a relatively meager post game, but the 3DS titles felt empty for such a large region and file size. Legendaries were few and far in between to capture, with the mascot legendary, Mewtwo, Zygarde, and one bird that depends on the starter chosen. Also, usually the end game introduces a new city, island, or some other type of location to explore. X and Y introduce Kiloude City, a rather dull city with a dull Battle Tower and by far one of the weirdest Safari Zone variants of the series yet, which forces you to play and actively search for people to get Pokémon that can sometimes only be found here. The post game introduced a few randomly small side quests with Looker, but the story is a bit silly and anticlimactic, like the story itself.​​

_Don't make me force myself to play with friends! _​​Pokémon titles always had a weak storyline. They're meant to be kid friendly and teach very basic lessons. But this one was very dull and just didn't do justice. The storyline turned into the world's ending from a crystal laser looking device that would go off unless the player stopped Team Flare. But hold on, I have to take a picture of myself in front of the doomsday device to complete my photo album. Selfie, anyone? Lysandre himself also felt like a flamboyant villain. He reminds me of Zhang He from _Dynasty Warriors. _He gets this cool backpack with cyborg arms coming out of it, but it doesn't even do anything. It was a terrible letdown. The story pace is also jarring, with several hours of space between the first two gyms, followed by a huge surge of gym leaders from there on. If this game needed to learn something, it was that consistency matters, which brings me to my next point: the 3D visuals being inconsistent most of the time.​​The 3D effect for the title was not fully enabled for many areas of the game. In battle, it caused frame rates to drop noticeably. In the over world, the 3D effect was only used in a few areas, like caves or notable locations in the Kalos region. When I played a title like _Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies_, the 3D was there throughout. I also won't forget to mention that only one Pokémon of almost 800 got voice acting. Pikachu may be the series mascot, but come on, give the others a similar treatment. It felt unfinished, like a lot of the other side characters the game forces upon the player.​​_Pokémon X and Y_ gives the player a few child friends to play with. They are quite possibly the worst written characters of the game, with almost no trace of ambition, save for the rival male/female counterpart of the player. Their plot lines felt shoehorned in, and it turns out by the end of the fun, they're out not doing much. I get that the series wanted to make the game social for the player, but including scenes of "dating" on a castle and watching fireworks was too mundane and kind of awkward when the butler gives the Technical Machine for Protect.​​Hurry up and get to the point already!​_Pokémon X and Y_ tried too hard to be something that catered to too many fans. It did things right with the visuals, social play, easier breeding process and character customization, but it was also too easy by a Pokémon game standard, and the aspect of adding social features to the game crept in and created forced relationships with players that had little significance to the overall plot of the game. That, combined with inconsistency in the visuals, lack of new Pokémon, a severe lack of post game content, and rather bland music made a title that brought forth the franchise a little bit but took some steps backward. Having said that, I will add _Pokémon X and Y_ to the list of _Games You SHOULDN'T Buy_.​​If you wish to offer feedback/commentary, you are more than welcome to do so. Please keep the comments clean. If you wish to submit an article to this series, please feel free to send me a PM of your completed work. I will most likely perform some minor edits and have it ready for the portal. I do however reserve the right to deny any submissions.​


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## GameWinner (Jun 3, 2014)

Ruh roh.
It was nice knowing you, Ryu.. 


Spoiler



still reading but I somewhat agree with most of it


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

GameWinner said:


> Ruh roh.
> It was nice knowing you, Ryu..
> 
> 
> ...


 

It's not an entirely bad game. I'm just saying that it's worth maybe glazing over or possibly purchasing at a lower price to take full advantage of it. Goodbye sir!


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## LegendAssassinF (Jun 3, 2014)

I found the game easier but it is more so it caters to the younger audience it is trying to appeal to. In the US and Japan the series is still pushing strong with episodes. Certainly in Japan I bet there are more children than adults that care about the series compared to the US if you look at the sales of the series in both locations. I wouldn't say it is a game you shouldn't buy since there are way worst games out there that are part of the main stream as well. It could be the lack of understanding when we were going up that makes us think these games are easier or bland. I go back to play the original games and there is zero story besides trying to be the best and Team Rocket being horrible to the player and trying to advance the storyline that it does have.


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## VLinh (Jun 3, 2014)

I similarly shared some of your opinions on the game, found the endgame content to be lacking, visuals were okay, and the difficulty this generation was too easy, even with exp share disabled. I would have liked them bringing back Round 2, where the Elite Four got buffed and or added like the islands back in Fire Red and Leaf Green. Story was mad lame imo


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## Framework43 (Jun 3, 2014)

in b4 you die
in b4 "I didn't buy it, i used the eshop promotion in March ;3"
in b4 RIP
in b4 no
in b4 wow


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## Gahars (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm not sure how helpful this will be. I mean, if you've paid for a previous Pokemon game, you've pretty much bought these already.

:^)


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I'm not sure how helpful this will be. I mean, if you've paid for a previous Pokemon game, you've pretty much bought these already.
> 
> :^)


 

Who says I'm here to help? Maybe I want to watch the world burn get people to read something fun.


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## Snailface (Jun 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I'm not sure how helpful this will be. I mean, if you've paid for a previous Pokemon game, you've pretty much bought these already.
> 
> :^)


Pokemon is pretty much like a sports game, you keep buying every year to get roster updates. 70 new players isn't a bad deal for $40, right?


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## Superiorknightz (Jun 3, 2014)

I just can't wait for them to release an adult version, where you can actually use your pokemon to beat the crap out of the trainer who are a pain in the a55 or team rocket/flare or whatever they call their selves. This will never happen, but who knows probably a hack one day, but it will require alot of time and money. I bought pokemon X for my lil bro and he loves it and he played the previous series and he said this is the best. I got both games for free as I am playing on GateWay I do feel that the game is easy and leveling up and defeating gym leaders is not even time consuming. I just wish Gamefreak would implement a difficulty.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 3, 2014)

And people say I'm a troll. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## heartgold (Jun 3, 2014)

Discount price? Tell that to 12 Million people who have already brought it. 

Pokemon single player has never been strong for any series and luckily I only care about online play where Pokemon really shines so I invest my hours into there and the 3D models for Pokemon are beautiful.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 3, 2014)

It has begun. _;O;_


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 3, 2014)

I stopped being a fan of pokemon after the first generation. I dabbled in later games in the series multiple times, only to give up an hour or two in due to boredom. A couple weeks ago I decided to give a used copy of Pokemon X a shot. Because, you know, at least I could say I tried it.

I kid you not, I returned the game only two hours after getting it. After 90 minutes of playtime, I just felt bored and overwhelmed with what I felt to be tedious upcoming tasks: Raising Pokemon, catching them, grinding, etc, etc. I almost literally felt like my soul was being sucked away (I promise you, I don't use that term lightly or commonly).

Aside from the samey gameplay that seemed to not have changed much since Gen 1, I'm rather appalled by how lazy the game felt on the technical side. Even when bringing the game into full 3D, GameFreak cut corners, just because they could get away with it. No stereoscopic 3D in the overworld, frame drops while in 3D, no true analog support. And don't try to tell me that it was due to technical difficulties, when Sakurai announced that Super Smash Bros. 3DS has achieved 60 fps when in full 3D. And by the time that game comes out, it'll be less than a year older than Pokemon X/Y.


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## Walker D (Jun 3, 2014)

Someone has kicked the beehive..   ..let's see how it goes


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## GameSystem (Jun 3, 2014)

I have a GateWay and I don't even feel like pirating this game. I'm just so tired of them.


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## Jean Karlo (Jun 3, 2014)

Ryu, Wat U Doing!?

I agree though, would love to see more pokemon and to have a harder difficulty level, this pokemon is far the easiest one I've played,


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Jean Karlo said:


> Ryu, Wat U Doing!?
> 
> I agree though, would love to see more pokemon and to have a harder difficulty level, this pokemon is far the easiest one I've played,



My job.


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## The_Hulkster (Jun 3, 2014)

Thank you.

I was considering buying either of the two games, but after reading your article it seems most of my doubts about these games were legitimate issues.
Your advice has not fallen on deaf ears, in this case. My purchase of Pokemon X/Y will be postponed, for now.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 3, 2014)

I have to say, I agree with just about everything in the OP. 

But as someone who only plays Pokemon as a mindless distraction while watching various shows and such, I actually liked the latest entries in the series. The easier gym matches and elite four made it...less necessary to grind every single pogy in your team. And I'm not even referring to the minigames, I didn't even bother with those during my first "try" of the game and the pacing for me was perfect. The shitty "story" element was, of course, shitty (I mean, it's pogymanz) I at least didn't fall asleep after a couple of minutes like I did with B/W/B2/W2. 

That said, I do hate on the repetitive-ness of pogymanz quite a bit, since it's worse than most sports games in a sense, but now I'm at the point where I don't care and I use it as a "I'm taking a shit" or "I'm watching a show and I don't wanna mess with any story-driven games" type...excuse.


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## CompassNorth (Jun 3, 2014)

Preach on my brutha. 
X/Y was such a let down the game was too simple and lacks post end-game content.

If it wasn't for Pokemon Amie it'd be my least favorite pokemon game next to Gen 1.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Let's see here, a lot of this is personal opinion rooted is possible bait. Pokemon X and Y knew exactly who to cater to: Hardcore players and young children. I'm not sure what role you play in the series, but I know you're not the latter.

Now, the steps backward are a bit hit or miss in my book. The game is *not* too easy. In every game, you can go through the elite four the first time with just your starter rather easy with a few full restores and a good moveset. Often that required a specific starter (Greninja is perfect for this role), but whatever. My point is, the games have not been *hard* since I was a kid, but have always provided a decent challenge. The Elite Four in this game weren't jokes, and I had a bit of trouble even with the EXP Share on. I just never grinded. Complaining about the difficulty and overlevelling is akin to crying in the rain.

The story was pretty nonsensical, I'll give you that, but so is stopping a world-wide (may I mention violent) criminal ring with nothing but pokemon battles as, canonically, a TEN YEAR OLD. So is doing it a second time and forcing a very wealthy man to give up being a mob boss and retire Team Rocket. So is two teams battling over expanding the land, or sea when rudimentary common sense says we need both. So is... I'll just stop there. Pokemon stories have never made sense, and they never will.

The lack of end-game content is about the only legitimate complaint I see here, but they made it quick and easy to access so us older players didn't have to wait to get a nostalgia trip. Mewtwo was put there for us. Quick and easy competitive battling was the for us. The remixed and re-tuned versions of distictly memorable songs was there for us. It could have had more content, and if the map was anything to go by, it might have.

The Safari Zone is also incredibly optional. If you want trade fodder, you can find pokemon with HAs in horde battles (the far superior way to EV train BTW) and then you can wonder trade until you get a bred pokemon with an ability you want. I WTed all my breeding rejects with HAs and I got several rejects with similar stories back.

Lastly, that last part concerning the music, that's a personal shtick. It's got beautiful music of the quality that I expect from a pokemon game.

X and Y have a very specific audience, much more so than previous gens. If you're a long term player and you pass this gen up, you'll be doing yourself a disservice. This game is good, and like every other pokemon game before it, well worth the money you'll spend on it. I don't believe it deserves a spot in GYSnB due to the complaints being so nitpicky. Someone even pointed out how this write up could become "Games You Shouldn't Buy because I didn't like them", and I can already see it happening.

This is negative points against your very clean record Ryu. If you were going to even comment on the rushed aspect, you should have mention frame drops in Horde battles. Or the issues we had at the beginning with internet connectivity. Instead you gave very opinionated points that didn't address why the game was bad enough to recommend a pass.

EDIT: I see you did mention the frame drops. Forget I said anything.

EDIT 2: I'll also give you the pacing thing, but I enjoyed that. Grinding the gyms was actually a pain when I was interested in the region. Ironically, R/S/E also had a few dry spells, but I to enjoyed that. Have you thought that perhaps you've merely grown out of the series?


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## Necron (Jun 3, 2014)

The only point discussing here is "This game, I was spamming the same moves on my Greninja [insert starter here] non-stop and stopped the Champion in her tracks within minutes, without using items." If that, every pokemon game should be here


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## anhminh (Jun 3, 2014)

Most of picture in the first post die, seem like god sent you a message.
Too bad this topic created too late, over 12 million units already sold by now.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Sterling said:


> *snip*


 
Hey, I really appreciate your input. 

And a lot of you guys seem to be under the impression that I was trolling. That's really not the case here. Usually, I can play a Pokémon title for a few weeks to enjoy the content. I was the Champion the very DAY the game got released, for Christ's sake, and caught all the legendaries and did all the post game content the game provided the day after.  I didn't do anything different, I just let the game take its natural course.  Which is a bit saddening because I had such high hopes for the game.

As far as the music concern that you mentioned, it just didn't stick with me for some reason. It's great that it was orchestrated, but I just couldn't attach to it like in previous generations. Which is strange as I identify with the music for a lot of the franchise games.

EDIT: Oh, fuck, you edited at the end. Some of this won't be relevant. ;P


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## Foxi4 (Jun 3, 2014)

I think X/Y are the most important Pokemon games since Diamond/Pearl and the reason why that's the case is that they've put legitimate effort into them. It's running on a new engine, all of the Pokemon have great 3D models, the world is in full 3D without losing the Pokemon charm and despite the transition to a new platform and all the work that comes with it they still added new features, new Pokemon and a brand-new continent. Sure, the games are a bit short, but I can understand why - the workload was directed at making the game look fresh on the 3DS. I think it's a great start for 3DS Pokemon games and I certainly enjoyed it, and that's saying a lot since the last Pokemon game I actually played from start to finish was... Pokemon Yellow _(although I have tried most of them)_.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Hey, I really appreciate your input.
> 
> And a lot of you guys seem to be under the impression that I was trolling.


 

But I never said that, though bait is still bait even if it's unintentional bait.


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## Jayro (Jun 3, 2014)

Superiorknightz said:


> I just can't wait for them to release an adult version, where you can actually use your pokemon to beat the crap out of the trainer who are a pain in the a55 or team rocket/flare or whatever they call their selves. This will never happen, but who knows probably a hack one day, but it will require alot of time and money. I bought pokemon X for my lil bro and he loves it and he played the previous series and he said this is the best. I got both games for free as I am playing on GateWay I do feel that the game is easy and leveling up and defeating gym leaders is not even time consuming. I just wish Gamefreak would implement a difficulty.


 
This is why Rom hacks are better than the retail versions. We just have to wait for editing tools to be made.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm lovin' this series. Top notch stuff, Ryu. Can't wait for #4. disgonbgud.gif


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## breaktemp (Jun 3, 2014)

hmm...i can't agree that this is a game people shouldn't buy  >_<" 

pokemon x/y uses so much of what the 3DS hardware is capable of. 

for me, if gives a clear feeling of being connected. 

* while playing online * 

trading, battling, voice chatting, etc...i still find it all a treat. 

though the game's difficulty was set very low, i would still recommend these titles to anyone who owns a 3DS. 

and while everything will be improved with the next poke'installment...i can not consider this game to be a bad investment. 

Ryukouki  still open to exchange 3DS-Friend Codes  "  

* i have not forgotten *


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## Foxi4 (Jun 3, 2014)

JayRo said:


> This is why Rom hacks are better than the retail versions. We just have to wait for editing tools to be made.


ROM hacks are invariably unfinished and terrible. If there are exceptions then they're few and far between.


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## Katsumi San (Jun 3, 2014)

I give this 3DS game a 7.5/10 because after defeat of champion game is become empty feeling, also it was too easy.... I will say I did enjoy all moments but not much satisfied. It is still great game to have.


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## Ikaresu (Jun 3, 2014)

Did you just choose a pokemon game?
Hahaha
this..haahahahaha..


Spoiler


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## Sheimi (Jun 3, 2014)

I did like XY at first. I now rarely play Pokemon X. Even though the lack of post game content. Breeding poke's kept me busy for a few months. You got people asking for a 6IV Shiny for a crappy iv Pokemon now, people d/c when they are losing and what not. Hopefully RS remakes will have more content added that won't go unused.



Spoiler



Shots fired.


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## Social_Outlaw (Jun 3, 2014)

To be honest, I never would've thought, that this game would be in the category (I'll tell you why later). Now, I love the way that you can breakdown a highly rated game, although there are a few minor cons, that a lot of people can't see because of the high replay value, but you can, which is impressive. I got to take notes lol, and kudos. Also, although You did hit all of the minor problems, but the question stills remains, is those any reason to give this, games you shouldn't buy title?... Theres minor issues, but it should be in a "games you should still buy" thread.


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## grossaffe (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't think this belongs in a series called "Games you shouldn't buy".  While I'm sure the concerns you've brought up are legitimate, I do not believe they are enough to state that it is a game people should not buy.  I think something like this would fit better in a "Dissenting Opinions" type column where you break down a popular game and explain why it's not as good as it's popularity would suggest.  To say that people should not buy this game seems irresponsible because there are a lot of people who would legitimately enjoy this game that you are telling to not buy.


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## CompassNorth (Jun 3, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Complaining about the difficulty and overlevelling is akin to crying in the rain.


How exactly? What's fun about playing a game where enemies go down in one or two hits? I'd say wanting more Pokemon in X/Y is "akin to crying in the rain" since even though doesn't have as many new Pokemon the older ones make up for it, not overleveling. Playing a game that's too easy isn't fun to play.
While I'll agree with you that the Pokemon games have never been the hardest games that doesn't mean they've been easy.
All the Pokemon games have provided a moderate challenge, X/Y sadly does not provide that.





Sterling said:


> The lack of end-game content is about the only legitimate complaint I see here, but they made it quick and easy to access so us older players didn't have to wait to get a nostalgia trip. Mewtwo was put there for us. Quick and easy competitive battling was the for us. The remixed and re-tuned versions of distictly memorable songs was there for us. It could have had more content, and if the map was anything to go by, it might have.


No matter how you look at it this is just unacceptable. The series has been improving on it's post end-game content since Generation Three (If you do not count Kanto from G/S/C/HG/SS. So what if we got Mewtwo? One Pokemon does not make up the possible hours that a player could have added if Game Freak didn't lazily think "WELP LET'S RELY ON NOSTALGIA! THAT'LL SURELY MAKE UP FOR IT!"




Sterling said:


> X and Y have a very specific audience, much more so than previous gens.* If you're a long term player and you pass this gen up, you'll be doing yourself a disservice.* This game is good, and like every other pokemon game before it, well worth the money you'll spend on it. I don't believe it deserves a spot in GYSnB due to the complaints being so nitpicky. Someone even pointed out how this write up could become "Games You Shouldn't Buy because I didn't like them", and I can already see it happening.


Going to have to disagree here. I'm a long term player but X/Y did nothing to me but doubt my faith in the franchise. It's a very bland game that has to have been rushed. There's no possible way a game this boring was meant to be the final product.   
Especially the map design which were really simple and straight forward except for Lumiose City

If Pokemon X/Y did something right it was to show what the 3DS is capable of doing from a hardware perspective when it comes to future Pokemon games.


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## Seph54 (Jun 3, 2014)

Snailface said:


> Pokemon is pretty much like a sports game, you keep buying every year to get roster updates. 70 new players isn't a bad deal for $40, right?


 
I would say it is a bad deal, seeing as we got over 150 a Gen before for only $34 lol

I have to with Ryu agree here, Gen 6 was very lacking. From the amount of pokemon added versus the Gen before it, the content, the bland story, and awful side characters. Not to mention the replay value for these first 2 games are BAD........


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## gamefan5 (Jun 3, 2014)

Y





Ryukouki said:


> It's not an entirely bad game. I'm just saying that it's worth maybe glazing over or possibly purchasing at a lower price to take full advantage of it. Goodbye sir!


u are my hero, sir.


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## VartioArtel (Jun 3, 2014)

Great review, and reinforces a running gag (to my knowledge, the only legitimate answer to "X/Y have a Post Game!?" is "Looker Sidequest")

Next you should start doing "Anime you shouldn't watch"

...Start with Evangelion.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> How exactly? What's fun about playing a game where enemies go down in one or two hits? I'd say wanting more Pokemon in X/Y is "akin to crying in the rain" since even though doesn't have as many new Pokemon the older ones make up for it, not overleveling. Playing a game that's too easy isn't fun to play.
> While I'll agree with you that the Pokemon games have never been the hardest games that doesn't mean they've been easy.
> All the Pokemon games have provided a moderate challenge, X/Y sadly does not provide that.


 
You and I must have been played different pokemon games in the past decade. Nothing but wild mobs ever went down in two hits, and if a leader's monster did, it was either due to good planning and strategy, or I overleveled. Kalos is no different.





CompassNorth said:


> No matter how you look at it this is just unacceptable. The series has been improving on it's post end-game content since Generation Three (If you do not count Kanto from G/S/C/HG/SS. So what if we got Mewtwo? One Pokemon does not make up the possible hours that a player could have added if Game Freak didn't lazily think "WELP LET'S RELY ON NOSTALGIA! THAT'LL SURELY MAKE UP FOR IT!"


 
When the game switched gens the first time, all of G/S/C content was shoved out of the way. R/S/E had arguably about the same amount of endgame content as X and Y did, and Platinum was the one with the MOST content because of how much better they were able to use their resources. I'm not arguing it wasn't rush, but what's there is polished like a bronzong mirror. Simplifying it to Mewtwo is over simplifying it, I merely mentioned him because it was a nod to older players. Plus, keep in mind that the games are getting huge. They're still trying to get the hang of the hardware.




CompassNorth said:


> Going to have to disagree here. I'm a long term player but X/Y did nothing to me but doubt my faith in the franchise. It's a very bland game that has to have been rushed. There's no possible way a game this boring was meant to be the final product.
> Especially the map design which were really simple and straight forward except for Lumiose City
> 
> If Pokemon X/Y did something right it was to show what the 3DS is capable of doing from a hardware perspective when it comes to future Pokemon games.


 
If all it takes is one game to doubt an entire franchise, games like Gears of War and Elder Scrolls would have died out after it's long-time fans moved away. Don't just straight up lie to me. If you didn't truly enjoy the game, you wouldn't have played until the end no one tortures themselves willingly like that. Rush and bland are two very different things, and X and Y is rich in both world and features. Could it have been better with a few more months of development? Probably not. Maybe six more, but I have a feeling it wouldn't add as much content as you're expecting and with the amount of polish they already had, it makes me doubt even further.


And as a person who's played from gen one, I'll have to disagree with your disagreement. X and Y has not only pushed revolutionary mechanics (adding a new type and online integration), but it also simplified aggravating and toilsome mechanics. Map design was by far the best of the games. The 3D transfer actually made things like route 8 and victory road come to life like never before. I'm super excited for both of the remakes because Hoenn was my absolute favorite region.

As for Lumiose  City... I guess you've noticed why simple and straightforward design is better. That city is a pain in the ass to navigate, even when you're familiar with it. That's one of my biggest complaints. It's always city this, city that. Why can't they be unique like Sootopolis, or Goldenrod? Instead, these cities act as like a giant hub to other parts of the region. It's really annoying to have to keep going back.


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## Ulieq (Jun 3, 2014)

Is it ok to say here that Pokemon sucks and Pokemon players are equated to nothing more than heroin addicts.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Ulieq said:


> Is it ok to say here that Pokemon sucks and Pokemon players are equated to nothing more than heroin addicts.


 
No, because blanket statements of this caliber is why we can't have nice things.


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## RodrigoDavy (Jun 3, 2014)

Pokemon X and Y were noticeably rushed, although it wouldn't be fair saying Game Freak didn't work hard in this game. But the main problem is that the series need to review its basic concepts otherwise it'll always be in the same category as New Super Mario Bros. and Call of Duty. The reasons I believe X and Y sold so well are  graphics and nostalgy.

I sold my Pokemon X game about a month ago, I have no regrets.


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## osaka35 (Jun 3, 2014)

So not really "games you shouldn't buy" but really "games that have some flaws that make me not like them too terribly much". A bit weak with the follow through, wouldn't you say?


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## GameSystem (Jun 3, 2014)

Maybe we shouldn't buy this game because in a few months, X2/Y2/Z or w/e will come out and it'll be the same thing pretty much but with some added content and a nod to these games. So don't buy X/Y because the sequel will be better.


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## Mikesahhh (Jun 3, 2014)

I thoroughly enjoyed playing through Pokemon X and my activity log said I spent 84 hours of my life on it, maybe because I hadnt played a pokemon game since gold came out on the GBC is one of the reasons I liked it so much , but I agree the biggest let down for me was definitely the difficulty (think the only times I remember dying was when I accidently started a sky battle with just like 1 low level piece of crap flying pokemon in my party lol)
Its a shame these pokemon games dont have a difficulty setting at the start of the game.

The online features of this game was awesome having a friends online list active on the bottom screen and being able to duel and trade and chat with them at anypoint and the global trade station (people were lovingg my haunters, even got a few legendarys trading those bad boys) and just being challenged by random players to duel were all features I was loving and when this game was launched I had like 3 other real life friends of mine who were all playing it at the same time so trying to get better pokemon to beat them in duels and for boast'y rights got a lot of extra hours and enjoyment then I would have if I was just playing this alone and offline all the time

But yeah think its a bit harsh putting this game in the Shouldn't buy catergory lol


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## vayanui8 (Jun 3, 2014)

While I do think this article has some excellent points, many of which I agree with, I don't think that these are reasons not to buy the game. My biggest gripes was the lack of the post game content and new pokemon. However, I felt like the quality of the pokemon this gen made up for the lack in quantity. I mean, who remembers the likes of lumineon or basculin? These games may have added less pokemon, but most of them are memorable, and gamefreak even went out of the way to make the early game pokemon viable party members with their hidden abilities. The lack of post game content is inexcusable however. In regards to the difficulty, I don't think it was too easy compared to the previous games. The entire franchise is extremely easy, so these weren't very far off previous entries in that regard. I do have to agree that the smaller parties were a letdown though. Similarly, the games have always had a terrible story so the weak plot was far from a surprise. The new "friends" were rather irritating, but they didn't appear too much thank God. The framerate drops are a problem, but they will hopefully be fixed in later iterations.
Pros:
improved breeding and training makes multiplayer much more competitive, and reduces grinding
mega evolutions make old favorites more viable in competitive battle, and breath new life into some forgotten ones as well
improved social features make training and battling even more convenient  and enjoyable
hidden abilities have been used to make early pokemon viable where their predecessors were garbage while still making them balanced early in the game
Impressive new graphics for the series

Cons:
lack of postgame content
less pokemon, but there are still plenty of great additions
framerate drops
annoying "friend" characters
gym leaders and elite 4 have smaller parties

Overall I feel that saying you shouldn't say these are games you shouldn't buy. Sure they have their flaws, but they have excellent new ideas in them too. One thing I don't think I'll ever understand is why they don't add a hard mode though, as the difficulty has been a complaint for quite a while. And the unlockable in black and white 2 for it doesn't count because it hardly changed anything and foced you to beat the game first or borrow a friends copy to access it. Hardly changed anything either


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

I kinda like this "Dissenting Ideas" column that someone mentioned earlier. I don't recall right this second who it was, but THANK YOU!  I will definitely consider that. The only problem is now I have to sort games accordingly.


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## TrapperKeeperX (Jun 3, 2014)

Being a huge Pokémon fan I'm not offended by this post. Everyone has their own opinion. I'll still buy Pokémon main series games regardless I do have X & Y and I do spend alot of time with my Pokémon games even I go to a Pokémon League and people do come up with great teams without the need of Legendary Pokémon it is a great game. I think Omega Ruby & Aqua Sapphire can potentially be the next Heart Gold & Soul Silver if they put Emerald features in Omega Ruby & Aqua Sapphire. They should Heart Gold & Soul Silver it I really want Pokémon Contests back in Omega Ruby & Aqua Sapphire and make the moves in 3D to make it look amazing on the 3DS. I know I'm going off topic but people will still buy Pokémon X & Y it's just an opinion if you love Pokémon buy this game it's literally the only Pokémon games you can play online on the 3DS. Well there is Pokémon Showdown which is fun and it helps you play competitively but that's on your computer.


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## Pedeadstrian (Jun 3, 2014)

I've played every Gen (although I only know for a fact that I've beaten four of them), and after playing Gen 3, I told myself I'd stop. Then Gen 4 came. And I decided to try it. Then I said I'd stop. Then 5 came. Then I said I'd stop. Pokemon X/Y was no exception to this trend. I beat it, but with a "So what?" feeling at the end. Pokemon Aime was interesting at first, but then it became more of a chore. Online trading was nice but most of the time I got an error when I tried to trade, so that put me off. I couldn't really care less about the reduced number of new Pokemon, but the lack of post-game is what made me only put in 30 or so hours. And, like everyone said, it was easy. Too easy. I traded it in for $25 to put towards Diablo III: Reaper of Souls, though, so for $20 (including tax), it wasn't a horrible experience. However, if I could go back in time and stop myself from playing, I would (after telling myself winning lottery numbers, that is).


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> I've played every Gen (although I only know for a fact that I've beaten four of them), and after playing Gen 3, I told myself I'd stop. Then Gen 4 came. And I decided to try it. Then I said I'd stop. Then 5 came. Then I said I'd stop. Pokemon X/Y was no exception to this trend. I beat it, but with a "So what?" feeling at the end. Pokemon Aime was interesting at first, but then it became more of a chore. Online trading was nice but most of the time I got an error when I tried to trade, so that put me off. I couldn't really care less about the reduced number of new Pokemon, but the lack of post-game is what made me only put in 30 or so hours. And, like everyone said, it was easy. Too easy. I traded it in for $25 to put towards Diablo III: Reaper of Souls, though, so for $20 (including tax), it wasn't a horrible experience. However, if I could go back in time and stop myself from playing, I would (after telling myself winning lottery numbers, that is).


 

But you're going to pick up Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, and then stop, right?


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## Taleweaver (Jun 3, 2014)

I've never played any pokemon-game, so I won't comment on much, but I still have to ask a question I'm scratching my head over pretty much every poké-release:


why two games? 


This may be pretty straightforward, but with Zelda Oracle of seasons/time, the quests, dungeon, story and the world were totally different. Their gameplay and (to a degree) art was the same, but it's in no way similar. And reviewers treated it as such. But on pokémon, it's like nobody even bothers telling anyone they are different in the first place. Different monsters, I guess. But even there I'm just going by the box art. And it's not like nintendo is making it any easier (X and Y? WTF...is one game having all female characters and the other one all male characters or something?).

Yeah, yeah...I get it. I shouldn't be reading, let alone posting it. But I can imagine it's something that boggles parents as well...


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## vayanui8 (Jun 3, 2014)

Taleweaver said:


> I've never played any pokemon-game, so I won't comment on much, but I still have to ask a question I'm scratching my head over pretty much every poké-release:
> 
> 
> why two games?
> ...


Because then they can sell it twice. The differences are extremely small. There are just a few exclusive pokemon to each one, which are typically pretty easy to get over trade


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## CathyRina (Jun 3, 2014)

I was expecting more negative feedback here to be honest.
I too found X and Y disappointing and lacking in content since Black 2 and White 2 had simply like the triple content of X and Y.
Black 2 and white 2 had both way more to do in the singleplayer campain and went for a more serious theme in the story. The story of X and Y on the other hand wasn't even told in a good way. 
And the differences between Black 2 and white 2 were huge compared to what X and Y did.
Not to mention the GTS is still stupid to use but at least this time you can type the Pokemon name you want to trade instead of hoping to see the Pokemon outside of online and multiplayer battles to be able to search for it. 
And the new engine can't handle 3D in battles at all. Doesn't matter which attack you choose, the framerate will always drop (sometimes even without 3D).
All things I hope to be fixed in Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire but since in the reveal trailer you can see the "partially 3D" text I don't think they gonna tweak it enough.
But hey, the only thing that makes this game get away with its flaws is that Diamond and Pearl weren't that great either when they came out. 
So games that use new engines always gonna be kinda bad. Which is partially to blame game freak for making COD out of Pokemon and releasing it on yearly basis. 

But to say something positive I loved the credits. Possibly best credits in a japanese videogame ever. 
For the first time a japanese videogame ferlt like it was made for the entire world and not just Japan.
It's a rather small gesture but a lovely one.


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## liamash3 (Jun 3, 2014)

I generally enjoyed playing X and Y. I liked the group of friends and the different methods they portrayed (Like pokemon for non-battle reasons? That's OK! Like collecting them? OK! Like them for battling? OK!) for playing and how each one is perfectly acceptable. I never noticed framerate issues, but I never use the 3D part of the 3DS either, so that could be just me.

My personal gripe was the exp.share boost made accidentally over-leveling too easy, and the fact the Gym Leaders, Villain Bosses and E4 of the game didn't live up to their full potential in terms of Pokemon you battle (as mentioned earlier, the E4 - the "toughest in the region", used only 4 pokemon each - I remember GenIII used 5-6 per member). The GTS is also a bit annoying to use, but at least they added removing pokemon you didn't have from the search, as well as typing the name (this really should have been there from the start, frankly).

Pro's:
*message regarding how you play - any way is fine
*The ending - you finally get a reward for taking down the bad guys
*The 3D effects were rather nice, I felt. I particularly liked the hub city's appearance (yeah, it's a pain to explore. But I compare that to a real city, which is roughly the same, but bigger)
*Improvements to the GTS system (search by name; remove trades you can't do from the results, scrolling results...)
*Customisation of the MC (this is a crowning feature, I feel, and hope it continues to any Pokemon main game after these ones)

Con's:
*EXP.Share tweak made overleveling easier (this one's minor, really. It's easy to overlevel in any pokemon game)
*Trainer's didn't live up to their potential, and used too few pokemon for their position (I could see the first gym using 3 pokemon, but not the 3rd onwards - that'd have increasing numbers per badge till the max of 6)
*Lack of Customisation (I know, this seems contradictory. It's actually in how the implemented it - guys had limited clothing choices compared to girls - I swear the fMC gets something like x2 the amount of pants options, for example - as well as hairstyle and clothing restrictions in general. I'd like the option to change clothing or hairstyle to whatever is available, regardless of gender. For example, if My male MC wants to wear a dress and have a long-haired style, he can't)

As people have said, this is the first 3D entry, and on a new system to boot. It'll likely take time to do things better, and the Ruby and Sapphire remakes will probably be improved in most ways compared to these ones, due to the developers getting more experienced with the system. Compare Diamond and Pearl to Black and White 2 - a lot's been improved as the developers get more familiar with the system.

EDIT:
Added some more + and -


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## Arshes91 (Jun 3, 2014)

sincerly i don't care if they lack about missing other pokemon or they possibility doing something different in the past, im enjoying pokemon x and y i respect by opinions gived by here i feel post game and sectrets events are huge disapoint me im buy this game for play online and competitive and they made only for that, don't they just create a new spin off game that was based on only competitive online battle with only five gen pokemons so they made x and y instead.

I can't wait to see how the situation change in ORAS i don't care if they made more worse.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

The game is better than RSE and BW but that's not saying a lot.

It was still really disappointing and felt super lackluster. The new Pokemon designs are boring, the engine is fine and everything but it's skimp on content and "competitive Pokemon" is still a bad joke in my book.

EDIT: Half the game felt like it was trying to be "Pokemon's Greatest Hits" or "MUH NOSTALGIA" by just having a random mismash of Pokemon. Bringing back old Pokemon is fine but when your game feels like entirely old Pokemon then what's the point. The only new Pokemon I had on my team was my starter. And that's because I felt obligated to keep him. Like every wild encounter was just "Well, another top tier Pokemon, wonder who I'll drop from my party now." It felt like a fan hack.


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## GameWinner (Jun 3, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The game is better than RSE and BW but that's not saying a lot.
> 
> It was still really disappointing and felt super lackluster. The new Pokemon designs are boring, the engine is fine and everything but it's skimp on content and "competitive Pokemon" is still a bad joke in my book.
> 
> EDIT: Half the game felt like it was trying to be "Pokemon's Greatest Hits" or "MUH NOSTALGIA" by just having a random mismash of Pokemon. Bringing back old Pokemon is fine but when your game feels like entirely old Pokemon then what's the point. The only new Pokemon I had on my team was my starter. And that's because I felt obligated to keep him. Like every wild encounter was just "Well, another top tier Pokemon, wonder who I'll drop from my party now." It felt like a fan hack.


Yup, it did feel like it was catering a lot to nostalgia fans. Compare Santalune Forest to Viridian Forest from gen I. There's also the remixed gen I battle theme and catchable Mewtwo and three legendary birds. It's also pretty funny that the game has almost all of the Kanto region's Pokemon. I just wished that they focused more on the newer Pokemon.


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## Deleted User (Jun 3, 2014)

Do people actually prefer pearl and diamond over B/W? I see a lot of "well at least its not black and white hahahhahahah" but no , "well at least it isn't the shitstorm pearl and diamond was".


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

king_leo said:


> Do people actually prefer pearl and diamond over B/W? I see a lot of "well at least its not black and white hahahhahahah" but no , "well at least it isn't the shitstorm pearl and diamond was".


 

Platinum is leagues better but yes. Black and White were dismal. Horrifically story focused, shitty Pokemon, overly drawn out, it was easily the worst Pokemon since Ruby and Sapphire, probably worse even.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 3, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> In past titles, EV training was considered one of the most mundane jobs, involving the player chasing down thousands of the same creature to boost their creature's values to make them marginally competitive. This process could take dozens of hours for a single Pokémon, which resulted in a maxed out save file for the hardcore player. In _Pokémon X and Y, _with the introduction of the Super Training mechanic, EV training could be completed in minutes by playing mini games on the touch screen.​


​​Nah man, nah I can't take this serious. EV training took maybe one, two hours at most even back in diamond and pearl. With the introduction of the vs seeker, it went even faster.​The super training on the other hand didn't speed up the process that much either (it certainly wasn't minutes depending on the super shot you had and the values you wanted to train), it just made it more graspable for Joe Casual, who before, just didn't get what EVs were or how they worked.​I guess you're mixing in IV breeding here as well, which is the only thing that could take a considerable amount of time, since it was luck bound and you could only pass on two specific IV's intentionally at most (for the cost of nature not being passed)​​​


Ryukouki said:


> ​_It's a shame that males had very little hairstyle options..._​​...and then taking a few steps back - What makes these titles not a good purchase?​First and foremost - the Pokémon themselves.​​The games introduced about 70 new critters to the franchise. The title was introduced on January 8, 2013, with a release of October 12th, 2013. In the ten months that the game had to develop, most of the critters were already introduced by the time the game had been released, through Nintendo Directs or by following the _Coro Coro! _magazines that released in Japan every month.When release day came around, most of them had already been shown​


​​no, only about half of them had been shown, probably less. We hardly got any evolved forms (besides megas) from the official channels, from those, mainly mega evolutions to my knowledge.​we did, however, get like a week or so of people who acquired/stole early copies and spoiled the rest of the pokemon, story and whatnot before most of us got to play on our own.​​edit: also, if in the past games we counted evolutions of old pokemon among the new ones, we ought to count the 29 mega pokemon forms too. most of them certainly change how the pokemon is used enough to be counted here.​​


Ryukouki said:


> ​A lot of the designs felt unoriginal, but even so, were much better than the Generation V counterparts.​​


​​There will never be original designs ever again. We never had a keychain before. It doesn't get more original than that. It was deemed dumb and unoriginal cause its just a keychain. We never had a cool ninja frog before. Not original either cause it was just a frog with ninja stuff.​However, two ball pokemon, two sludge pokemon and diglets line will forever be original cause... we were young back then.​ 


Ryukouki said:


> ​I also felt that Mega Evolutions, while they're a cool gimmick, took away from the evolutions that some Pokémon really needed. For example, Pinsir and Heracross. Competitively, the two are amazing to have, but they could have been given so much more in the form of a permanent evolution. And the idea of only Blaziken getting a Mega Evolution while Sceptile and Swampert are left in the dust really irks me. Hopefully with the release of _Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire_, that gets rectified. Furthermore, the difficulty felt reduced and much easier than previous generations.​​


​​Mega Evolutions were a new, albeit limited battle mechanic. People had been whining for ages to have something new, cause nothing ever changed. New battle mechanic. Its too gimmicky. 3D world. Not 3d enough. Inline skates? But we wanted a skateboard D:​​​


Ryukouki said:


> Difficulty is always hard to properly talk about in Pokémon titles. They're childrens' games, many say, but these felt a bit dumbed down, even with the Exp. Share item turned off. One stark example is the Elite Four of this generation, who each only held four Pokémon, and gym leaders, who restricted themselves to three Pokémon each. They felt stunted. The culmination of the training felt like a waste as I easily struck them down. Not to mention the Champion was a bit underwhelming, as I used to like struggling against the champion in a rather epic battle. This game, I was spamming the same moves on my Greninja non-stop and stopped the Champion in her tracks within minutes, without using items.​​


​​1. Pokemon was never difficult. 4 year olds beat those games.​2. The exp share in this form was great, it was what people wanted it to be, useful. It was also entirely optional.​It gave us two ways to play this game. The first being, like any other pokemon game, you got a team of about 3 main and 3 support/hm pokemon and basically just used them. In which case it never mattered if you had the exp share or not. Your main pokemon, especially your starter, would end up so strong you literally didnt need anything else or give a damn about types. When I was young, I beat Lance using a charizard with ember, flamethrower, fireblast and fire...that whirly one. I used that same charizard to beat everything else, from agathas gengar to blues blastoise.​Or, you could switch out half your team every other town and never have to resort to boring grinds. Which honestly is what I believe the game wanted us to do. Every route gave you new pokemon, there was hardly any repetition. No rattattas or pidgeons on every other outside route. New Pokemon all the time and not just one or two, but a bunch of them, often enough to make two new teams.​​The Leader and E4 part is about the only thing I can agree with, they've been dumbed down and should be using more pokemon. It always made sense for the first two or three to not have a full team, but anything after that using only three is dumb. But then, this has been happening forever too. ever since red and blue.​For Gym leaders, just look at what gold and silver offered us. The Jotho-Leaders had 2, 3, 2, 4, 2, 3, 3, 4 pokemon. The kanto ones had more, between 3 (sabrina) and 6 (blue), everyone else using 4 or 5.​Gold and Silvers E4 was weak too, like 10-20 levels weaker than the ones in red and blue. Having 5 weak pokemon made them look more like a threat, using almost a whole team, but didnt really make them any harder (some used doubles too)​The e4s in ruby and diamond were pretty easy too, safe for diamonds champ, the only champ who's felt challenging at all, but mainly due to being very defensively with spiritomb and milotic taking way too many hits and garchomp being almost unstopable if you run into it the very first time.​As for gym leaders, in the ruby gen, three used 2 pokemon, three used 3 pokemon, one used 4 and one used 5. The average for gym leader pokemon has been 3 pokemon for so long already.​Black and White had only one hard fight (if you didnt prepare accordingly or overleveled) and that was the ghetsis one, but also mainly due to his pokemon being both strong in offense and defense and very mixed in type. I know from experience that theres hardly anything more annoying than a game that has such battles from beginning to end. Yes, I too enjoy a bit of voltwhite or bloody platinum once in a while. But having to grind an hour or two for every gym leader ends up being more tedious than enjoyable.​​Don't remember your past with rose colored glasses. There was no pokemon game outside of the two gamecube ones, that couldn't be beaten pretty easily by spamming the same move over and over, over the course of a 20-25 hour game (all the games are that short btw, the old ones just had you running around with less obvious hints most of the time)​​​


Ryukouki said:


> ​And since we're talking about the Elite Four here, what happens after beating them?​​_Way too easy this generation..._​​Sadly, the answer to this question is not much, assuming we are talking about new content here. There could always be things to do: breeding, completing the Pokédex, competitive battle, but for new content, it felt stark and empty. The post game felt extremely lacking in this game. It's a fact that most Pokémon games that aren't based in the Johto region would have a relatively meager post game, but the 3DS titles felt empty for such a large region and file size. Legendaries were few and far in between to capture, with the mascot legendary, Mewtwo, Zygarde, and one bird that depends on the starter chosen. Also, usually the end game introduces a new city, island, or some other type of location to explore. X and Y introduce Kiloude City, a rather dull city with a dull Battle Tower and by far one of the weirdest Safari Zone variants of the series yet, which forces you to play and actively search for people to get Pokémon that can sometimes only be found here. The post game introduced a few randomly small side quests with Looker, but the story is a bit silly and anticlimactic, like the story itself.​


​​Agreed. The post game was short and lacked. In a way. Red and blue had one dungeon as postgame. gold and silver had a whole region, but that was really more post story than post game. It was also mostly recycled from red and blue.​Ruby and the other one... besides rayquaza? nothing.​I'm not entirely sure about diamond and pearl. they had a tower and that island with the dungeon. and an empty town where nothing happened.​black and white didn't really have a world of postgame either. we had half the world map to explore, but there was nothing interesting to do there. an underwatermaze you needed an online map for, white forest and black city... which where nice to have, but not really special either, unless you did lots of that dream point stuff or something. more empty towns. But at least a bunch more AI trainer battles and a hide and go seek mission.​well, compared to the most recent games, b/w/1/2, yes, x/y didnt have much post game. but in general? were post game what most people wanted? some, but most spent literally 100 times more time playing or preparing for online than they spend playing the single player campaign.​Of course, I want to be clear, I'd rather have a longer game than a shorter one, but I didn't need b/w empty postgame routes to be honest.​​​


Ryukouki said:


> _Don't make me force myself to play with friends! _​​Pokémon titles always had a weak storyline. They're meant to be kid friendly and teach very basic lessons. But this one was very dull and just didn't do justice. The storyline turned into the world's ending from a crystal laser looking device that would go off unless the player stopped Team Flare. But hold on, I have to take a picture of myself in front of the doomsday device to complete my photo album. Selfie, anyone? Lysandre himself also felt like a flamboyant villain. He reminds me of Zhang He from _Dynasty Warriors. _He gets this cool backpack with cyborg arms coming out of it, but it doesn't even do anything. It was a terrible letdown. The story pace is also jarring, with several hours of space between the first two gyms, followed by a huge surge of gym leaders from there on. If this game needed to learn something, it was that consistency matters,​


​​In that case, you better revisit the old games because, from the point of view of a 20something year old experienced gamer, all these stories were weak and dull.​I got to give it a point though, it seemingly took itself more serious than other games, probably because it was about the fate of the world and had that genocidal element that just wouldn't want to be downplayed. Which is a bad idea if the plot and its protagonists aren't easily taken serious.​Lysandre being flamboyant... well. Yeah. But its not that much worse than a supposed mafia syndicate leader being put down by a boy and changing his ways just like that, a pirate and some sun fan who's way to pale to be a fan of the sun, a psychotic maniac and an abusive father and his freak adoptive son.​​​


Ryukouki said:


> ​which brings me to my next point: the 3D visuals being inconsistent most of the time.​​The 3D effect for the title was not fully enabled for many areas of the game. In battle, it caused frame rates to drop noticeably. In the over world, the 3D effect was only used in a few areas, like caves or notable locations in the Kalos region. When I played a title like _Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies_, the 3D was there throughout. I also won't forget to mention that only one Pokémon of almost 800 got voice acting. Pikachu may be the series mascot, but come on, give the others a similar treatment. It felt unfinished, like a lot of the other side characters the game forces upon the player.​


​​thats a legitimate complain. though if I was nintendo/gamefreak and was aware of how little 3D is used, I wouldn't even have bothered with stereoscopic 3d at all.​Then again, most 3d games get framerate and effect trouble, once you turn on stereoscopic 3d. like heroes of ruin, kingdom hearts, that lego undercover game. pheonix wright or professor layton obviously has less trouble in that aspect.​​as for the voice acting... voices arent canon, pokemon saying their names was only for the anime and didnt really make sense. but kids learned the names of the pokemon better which caused sales to skyrocket. pikachu saying pikachu was pretty unneeded for the game though. I would however support a recast of all 'voices' to sound like they come from actual creatures. like birds doing birdcalls, dogs barking or snarling and bears growling etc.​​


Ryukouki said:


> ​_Pokémon X and Y_ gives the player a few child friends to play with. They are quite possibly the worst written characters of the game, with almost no trace of ambition, save for the rival male/female counterpart of the player. Their plot lines felt shoehorned in, and it turns out by the end of the fun, they're out not doing much. I get that the series wanted to make the game social for the player, but including scenes of "dating" on a castle and watching fireworks was too mundane and kind of awkward when the butler gives the Technical Machine for Protect.​​


​​i didnt like the friends either, but then, I didnt like any rival/friend character ever since pearl.​​​


Ryukouki said:


> Hurry up and get to the point already!​_Pokémon X and Y_ tried too hard to be something that catered to too many fans. It did things right with the visuals, social play, easier breeding process and character customization, but it was also too easy by a Pokémon game standard, and the aspect of adding social features to the game crept in and created forced relationships with players that had little significance to the overall plot of the game. That, combined with inconsistency in the visuals, lack of new Pokémon, a severe lack of post game content, and rather bland music made a title that brought forth the franchise a little bit but took some steps backward. Having said that, I will add _Pokémon X and Y_ to the list of _Games You SHOULDN'T Buy_.​​


 
why do you call it social play? you mean the online mode of battling and training, right? a thing that didnt get the praise it should get in your review. its so much better than what the ds games offered in online play and if anyone played these games for the battle part, then the whole review should be read much more positively:
the story is short, everything regarding competitive battles is easier and faster now, if you play competitively, this game is pretty much made for you specifically.

as i argued, its not easier than any other pokemon game, but it can be made less hassle than any other pokemon game by using exp share and never switching pokemon.

i have no idea what you mean with forced relationships. its npcs in a game. they're never that important to the plot.

if by inconsistent visuals you mean no 3d in overworld, alright, but again, who uses the 3d effect that much? is that really a dealbreaker?

and bland music? it doesnt get more subjective than music. its music fitting for a pokemon game and its good quality tunes.

so yeah. obviously, you don't lie about the things you complain about. they're worth of being complained about. but they're far from being deal breakers whatsoever. at the heart of what these games wanted to be ever since the gameboy times, social games about monster battles, X and Y excel on a level never before seen in the series.


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## Deleted User (Jun 3, 2014)

actually I kind of agree
I loved the game as I started playing it, but after like the 4th or 5th gym the rest of the game feels rushed... and it really was

Game Freak wanted to delay it to make things properly and implement a system in which you would be able to talk to pokémon, not only pet them, buuut it was going to push the game for a 2014 release
Nintendo didn't like the idea, so they didn't have a lot of time

it's especially noticeable at the victory road, since all of the game had super diverse pokemons in places and at victory roads I find mostly gravelers
I really expected a Pokemon Z would come and fix it all and add that talking pokemon system, so seeing the Ruby and Sapphire announcements was kind of a disappointment

I expect even less from the Ruby and Sapphire remakes, they have only 1 year to redo it and the original games were terrible in the first place ( they really got me and some friends off pokémon until platinum came around )


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 3, 2014)

KooPako said:


> actually I kind of agree
> 
> it's especially noticeable at the victory road, since all of the game had super diverse pokemons in places and at victory roads I find mostly gravelers


 
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Victory_Road_(Kalos)#Pok.C3.A9mon

gravlers and gurrdurr are easily the most common pokemon (that was true for quite a few victory roads so far), but victory road has never been as diversely populated as in this game

well alright, maybe in bw2... that games victory road was pretty long and diverse too, with water, grasslands and caves mixed


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## Black-Ice (Jun 3, 2014)

This thread is absolute poppycock and I'm completely offended by its existence
I haven't spent the time to read it, nor shall I

I havent read any of Guild's comments but I'll just jump the gun and be offended by those too

*insert hurt Black-Ice comments here*






One thing I will comment on though:
You all should have seen the "lack of post game content" coming
The 1st installments of every series lack in post game content, Red/Blue, Ruby/sapphire, Diamond/Peal, Black/White 
The only 1st installment of a gen that didnt was Gold and Silver.
Yellow, Emerald, Platinum and BW2 all expanded hugely upon the predecessors and the next gen 6 game will do the same.
Not saying this is a good sales strategy but...
Complaining about lack of content in XY is like complaining about how Ultra Street Fighter 4 has more content than Street Fighter 4, you know it's gonna happen.


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## Vipera (Jun 3, 2014)

Pokémon X felt like the closest thing to an RPG the main pokémon franchise has ever made.
I don't know about you, but in pokémon games I've ALWAYS trained the starter, period. And I still won everywhere. No kidding. I did with my Charizard, my Blaziken, my Infernape and with Black I tried a different approach and it was so boring I quickly came back to focus on Servine or whatever its last evolution was called.
At least with this Pokémon X/Y thing I can see that they tried to expand the game pretty much everywhere. They cut off the 10 years-old bullshit and fixed various things like walking diagonally. I still wish they'd quit the stupid "we are a terrorism team that will rule the world! Oh fuck your pikachu kicked our ass, nevermind", which was acceptable in the first generation, silly in the second, crazy in the third and absolutely retarded from the 4th (a church where pokémon and humans can marry? Wat?).
I am still playing this game, and I hate that I had to grow up and play so many other games because they destroyed the charm I felt with them. If I still was 14, by now I'd have a message stuck on my 3DS screen begging me to turn off the console now to make my eyeballs stop bleeding. But no, there is nothing that makes me say "30 minutes more". Hell, there is nothing that makes me stay 5 minutes longer. My passion all moved to a different genre of pokémon games that I'm quite sure will never see the light of another title again, while the big, fat tits of this serie will keep being squished to death.
But, unlike Black, I haven't thrown away the game yet. I still feel like I want to complete the game. I don't know if it's more of a forced tribute to my inner child or the constant throwing of stuff from the game while screaming "I AM REVOLUTIONARY! I AM REVOLUTIONARY!" works just a little bit. Maybe I should wait to finish the game to say anything about it, but eh.

Bottomline: the game smells like brand new, so brand new that passed from "Hahaha what?" genre to "mediocre RPG". That, or I am growing up. Sad.

EDIT: Relevant?


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## Jerret Douglass (Jun 3, 2014)

Really hate when people talk about the difficulty and exp. share in X and Y. Like in R/B you could solo the game with your starter, in G/S I solo'd the game with a Raticate, R/S I only used my Blaziken, and in D/P I used my Infernape. I do have to agree with you that X and Y tried to cater to fans nostalgia though. It really bother me how you received a Kanto starter and how Charizard (one of my least favorite Pokemon and over hyped for no damn reason) got two megas, same with Mewtwo.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Vipera said:


> *snip*


 

I always just trained my starter as well. Seemed like a better thing to do. I definitely think this one also had caterings to their older fans though, with the Kanto starter and the bringing back of Mewtwo. It feels like a brand new title, yes, but honestly...? It's not really an outstanding game in terms of the _franchise, _for me. As a standalone 3DS title, it's rocking boats and still scoring cash. It's doing phenomenally. I'm just saying that this game needed more work. And I think that more work would have made it a much more impressive title, because all of the mistakes they made were mistakes that could be avoided.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> It's not really an outstanding game in terms of the _franchise, _for me.


 
And that's the issue with this article. It's entitled, "Games You Shouldn't Buy". We all expected a column that was objective, not opinionated. That's the problem with doing games like Pokemon, it has its share of problems but it definitely is worth buying. As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Sterling said:


> And that's the issue with this article. It's entitled, "Games You Shouldn't Buy". We all expected a column that was objective, not opinionated. That's the problem with doing games like Pokemon, it has its share of problems but it definitely is worth buying. As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.


 

Yeah, I hear you. Might start up a dissenting opinions column sometime soon...


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Yeah, I hear you. Might start up a dissenting opinions column sometime soon...


 
That's a good idea. No more false advertising.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Sterling said:


> That's a good idea. No more false advertising.


 

Ah, there's a bit of a learning curve here. Can't please absolutely everybody.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 3, 2014)

the problem with this is, that the first two 'games you shouldn't buy' seemed to be much more objective, but this one is simply taking a good game and blowing a few small complaining points out of proportion, which in part were very subjective, like the music or the npc friends not being plot drivers, and saying that makes it a bad decision to buy.
and worst of all, completely ignoring how the most important parts of the franchise, its soul, its cornerstones, battling, collecting and trading, have never been better or more accessible.

again, the things you talk about are mentionable, but they're more of a reason to give the game 8 out of 10 points, instead of putting it on the same level as ninja gaiden 3.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 3, 2014)

Clydefrosch said:


> the problem with this is, that the first two 'games you shouldn't buy' seemed to be much more objective, but this one is simply taking a good game and blowing a few small complaining points out of proportion, which in part were very subjective, like the music or the npc friends not being plot drivers, and saying that makes it a bad decision to buy.
> and worst of all, completely ignoring how the most important parts of the franchise, its soul, its cornerstones, battling, collecting and trading, have never been better or more accessible.
> 
> again, the things you talk about are mentionable, but they're more of a reason to give the game 8 out of 10 points, instead of putting it on the same level as ninja gaiden 3.


 

Again, I hear where you guys are coming from. I kinda want to test the waters a bit more and find out _exactly_ where to draw that line - the line where the commentary stops really focusing on the game itself and instead goes to a better thread placement. There's no pleasing everyone in this case. Some people love the idea of seeing this game here, and some people hate it. I'm going to be weighing those alternatives in the coming articles so that it gets people talking. Talking is important. I value this feedback, I really do. It's a great experiment for me. I'm working on creating a column of sorts that deals with games like this. Give me time!


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## Pedeadstrian (Jun 3, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> But you're going to pick up Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, and then stop, right?


Yes, but this time I won't pay for it. *cough Gateway cough*


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 3, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> You all should have seen the "lack of post game content" coming
> The 1st installments of every series lack in post game content, Red/Blue, Ruby/sapphire, Diamond/Peal, Black/White
> The only 1st installment of a gen that didnt was Gold and Silver.
> Yellow, Emerald, Platinum and BW2 all expanded hugely upon the predecessors and the next gen 6 game will do the same.
> ...


 
How did Yellow expand upon Red and Blue, post-game-wise? The only differences I noticed were the tweaks meant to make homage to the TV show (replacing generic Rockets with Jessie and James, changing certain gym leaders' Pokemon team, etc). I don't remember there being any difference in the post-game.


Sterling said:


> And that's the issue with this article. It's entitled, "Games You Shouldn't Buy". We all expected a column that was objective, not opinionated. That's the problem with doing games like Pokemon, it has its share of problems but it definitely is worth buying. As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.


 
Um... it's a column about what games are bad, dude. That's a subjective... subject by it's very nature. You can't whine about the OP being opinionated, and then make claims about the game "definitely" being worth buying, as if your opinion is somehow factual compared to his.

Ryukouki thinks a game that you like isn't worth it, boohoo. Get over it.


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## Hyperstar96 (Jun 3, 2014)

Snailface said:


> Pokemon is pretty much like a sports game, you keep buying every year to get roster updates. 70 new players isn't a bad deal for $40, right?


Have you ever actually played a Pokemon game?


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## Snailface (Jun 3, 2014)

Hyperstar96 said:


> Have you ever actually played a Pokemon game?


I was just joking along with the haters.
I'm not an obsessive, but I think its a good series.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Um... it's a column about what games are bad, dude. That's a subjective... subject by it's very nature. You can't whine about the OP being opinionated, and then make claims about the game "definitely" being worth buying, as if your opinion is somehow factual compared to his.


 
LOL, no. I'm sorry, but that's not how this thing was advertised. You can look at a game a see where it was badly made, where corners were cut and where promises were broken. That's the criteria that determines a game that's a waste of money. I'm sorry, but X and Y did what they advertised very well. The mechanics were polished and it's beautiful all around. Sure, it could have been optimized better, but this game pushed the hardware quite a bit, so it deserves a little slack on that. Look at the Angry Video Game Nerd for the kind of analysis this column is expected to perform. "Games You Shouldn't Buy" asserts that the bad outweighs the good, and X and Y, all main Pokemon games for that matter, are not bad games by any means of the phrase.

And yes, I can call out the OP for false advertisement as other people have. Just as you can call me out for "whine". Cry more Watchy.


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## Demonbart (Jun 3, 2014)

Sterling said:


> As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.


Except it doesn't. it shows what little percentage of the 3DS's power Game Freak can actually use.
Game Freak can't convince me this game couldn't have run 60 fps in 3D with better optimization when there's games like Resident Evil Revelations out there with console level graphics and real-time gameplay that only have some framerate lag while loading.
Overall I loved X and Y while playing through them, but looking back at them they're two of the weakest Pokémon titles in terms of just about everything that isn't ambience.


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## Enchilada (Jun 3, 2014)

For a Pokemon fan, every game is worth buying. (I'm not talking about the spin-offs too)
I love Pokemon X, it improves the series in many ways. The only things that I didn't like were the low difficulty and the lack of post-game content.


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## codezer0 (Jun 3, 2014)

If I may just put my $1.50 USD in...

In my case, I have to say that the _Pokémon_ series, especially its core games, seems to just actively *hate* my guts. I know some people will probably harp and say "genwunner" or something stupid like that, but I at least gave one (or two) games of each generation. But that said, each since had given me reason to be anywhere from annoyed to absolutely bombshell-laying enraged. To put it bluntly, for the longest time, it was _only_ Gen 1 that I had managed to actually be able to have just a team of six, I could get within the game, and stick with it all the way through to beat the main game, and not constantly struggling for funds, or being at the wrong level, or something daft like that. I wish I could say I was joking, but annoyingly, especially with the _insane_ processing/input lag as of Gen IV, I had been quite ready to quit the series altogether, if not for peer pressure, and even to the point that some friends would even actively buy me a copy of one of the games to have me continue with them, only for them to leave me in the dust for me to eternally struggling. Between encounters explicitly coded to not be obtainable by any legal way, Mystery Gifts coded to not be transferable in any way, GTS trades that are impossible, I was honestly quite fed up with Nintendo and Game Freak's antics. I didn't even want to give Gen 6 a chance because after very harrowingly and very narrowly completing the dex on my ROM copy of Black 2, and having no way to actually migrate my work over to the new games, I was pretty fed up.

It was *only* because I had the gateway that I even bothered to try to play the game in the first place, and be forced to download the 1.2 patch.

So, the good I can say from my experience?

This was the first game _since Generation I_ where I was able to get a team of six and _stick with it_. Sadly, it had to be with a couple of trades in and out with my fiancee's real copy of Y, but unlike almost all the generations before, I could at least have a team of six _I liked enough to go through all the way with_.
For the first time since the DS generation of games, I could actually beat Gym 1 on the first try.
for the first time since gen 1, I didn't have to worry about what level my team was to get through the main part of the game
Pokemon Amie, as an added game mode, is a double-edged sword - it's wonderful playing with and caring for my team, but it does honestly create just another form of busywork if we're honest.
Oh my god, Game Freak actually did some goddamn modeling work! This is honestly the first time they've updated the 3D models of the Pokemon since the N64 era.
And for the first time since Gen IV, the input lag has _FINALLY_ been addressed.
Then the bad stuff.

All the talk about how this generation made it easier to get shinies, and yet I've yet to even _see_ one...
... except AZ's shiny floette. An *8000:1* chance and _that asshole gets the shiny!_
Gen V's plot was absolutely worthless, and X/Y's plot was absolutely... wasted.
**expletive* FASHION NAZIS!*
I was forced to look like a hipster douche in order to earn enough style for the bonding/O-Powers.
Why do I have to do hotel work for _style?_ that makes no sense whatsoever.
Seriously, I'm being blocked from restaurants and places to go _because I'm not stylish enough?_ That's just horrible.
As for what I would want in a game?

Why can't I have one of them follow me around on the field?
maybe some visual cues to the Pokemon's nature on its stance, or how close they are to defeat?
Or now how Pokemon with high affection can shrug off status ailments or endure a sure-KO hit... why not some animation to show them toughing it out?
 
And at the end of the main game, there's really... nothing for the post game. Yes, I caught Mewtwo, happily, and yes I got xerneas and zygarde, but there really isn't anything there. And without some proper cheats, I just don't have the motivation to slog through all that again. About the only thing I'd want is maybe a donor cart so I could go online with the gateway, but... I'm just not motivated to do so, either. Pokemon games, especially the core games, are notoriously expensive to purchase, and while some do get a lot of time to sink into it, I just can't work out why. If not for the critters, I honestly think I would have wrote it off a long time ago.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Jun 3, 2014)

I didnt read the first post yet but out of ALL the games that is out there, GBATemp "Games you shoudnt buy" #3 is Pokemon X/Y?
Will have a read and get back to it.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Demonbart said:


> Except it doesn't. it shows what little percentage of the 3DS's power Game Freak can actually use.
> Game Freak can't convince me this game couldn't have run 60 fps in 3D with better optimization when there's games like Resident Evil Revelations out there with console level graphics and real-time gameplay that only have some framerate lag while loading.
> Overall I loved X and Y while playing through them, but looking back at them they're two of the weakest Pokémon titles in terms of just about everything that isn't ambience.


 
Call me an optimist or whatever, but they created an entirely new engine. I have a feeling it'll get better with time. Game Freak never ventured this far into the 3D realm, while RE:R used their proprietary MT Engine which is used for all their games. Comparing the two is like comparing a long-time carpenter to an apprentice. GF's expertise is in 2D and pseudo 3D. So yes, it'll get better in later revisions. The MT Framework is in its 7th generation. You're a developer, right? Given how commercial games are expected to adhere to a time table, don't you think they did an amazing job their first time transition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT_Framework


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## mkdms14 (Jun 3, 2014)

I actually never played through pokemon black and white.  Pokemon Diamond was the last one I played before Pokemon X and Y soo when I started my adventure I had more than 70 new pokemon to learn I don't know for sure but I would say at least 200 new ones for me.  I actually really enjoyed pokemon X and Y.


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## Black-Ice (Jun 3, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> How did Yellow expand upon Red and Blue, post-game-wise? The only differences I noticed were the tweaks meant to make homage to the TV show (replacing generic Rockets with Jessie and James, changing certain gym leaders' Pokemon team, etc). I don't remember there being any difference in the post-game.


 
All the anime differences did change the flow of the game along with a few minigames.
Nope no change to post game, because Gen 1 had absolutely no post game at all.
But of course nobody hates/remembers that, but its a crime to have lack of post game content the newer installments


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> All the anime differences did change the flow of the game along with a few minigames.
> Nope no change to post game, because Gen 1 had absolutely no post game at all.
> But of course nobody hates/remembers that, but its a crime to have lack of post game content the newer installments


 
The standard changes. Honestly, everyone plays their pokemon games differently. I never do battle tower style battles and focus on breeding my favorites and battling friends. I don't remember the last time I played the post game for anything but breeding items. Heck, most post game content is designed to allow players to get more old pokemon.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 3, 2014)

Sterling said:


> *Snip*


 
You're probably one of those people who hates any review site that gives your favorite games low scores, too.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> You're probably one of those people who hates any review site that gives your favorite games low scores, too.


 
No, I prefer objectivity in my reviews, both given and read. He has valid points, but this is not a review column, and shouldn't be treated as such. X and Y are not bad games, and should not be treated as such. Any more assumptive questions I can answer passive aggressively? It's a talent I really need to work on.


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## Gahars (Jun 3, 2014)

Wow, Ryu, you must've rustled the chicken coup something fierce, because this thread is a fluster cluck.



Sterling said:


> LOL, no. I'm sorry, but that's not how this thing was advertised. You can look at a game a see where it was badly made, where corners were cut and where promises were broken. That's the criteria that determines a game that's a waste of money.


 
Or, you know, "I didn't like it," "I don't think it was fun," etc. etc.

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with Ryu's judgement here, but being so stupidly anal is doing nothing to help you. It's Pokemon, dude. Don't be so assblasted. Let it go.


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## Black-Ice (Jun 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> being so stupidly anal


 
I don't actually think he's being anal, I speak from experience
I think he's laying out his view fine. 

Despite being a huge part in the development of this stereotype, not every thread where someone calls pokemon bad has to end in someone being trolled to emotional instability.


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## Gahars (Jun 3, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> I don't actually think he's being anal, I speak from experience
> I think he's laying out his view fine.


 
Just because he's not anally annihilated doesn't mean he isn't fecal fuming.

How is calling the thread's title "false advertising" not being anal? It'd be like calling Yahtzee a fraud because Zero Punctuation has punctuation. The paragraph long ranting responses certainly doesn't do any favors either.

If you have to cite the Angry Video Game Nerd as an example of your idea of "objective" reviewing, you have gone very, very wrong.

EDIT: If you want a good example of laying out a view, just look at McHaggis' post below.


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## McHaggis (Jun 3, 2014)

I think you raise some very valid points, Ryukouki. Most of your issues are the same ones I had with the game (particularly the bit about voice acting, since, you know, most of the 'Mon already have pre-recorded voices from the anime). Still, I found the game somewhat enjoyable anyway and put some serious hours into it. I think it's a stretch to say you shouldn't buy it (technically I didn't buy it, but I probably would have).

I tend to find that the higher profile a game is, the easier it is to dislike it. Whether the game was over-hyped or your one of those people who likes to go against the grain, if everything's not perfect with it you end up feeling disappointed. You could probably pick faults equal to or greater than those with almost any game, even ones you might consider great games yourself. You said yourself that _Pokemon X and Y_ did some things right and even brought the series forward in many respects (3D, orchestral music, global trading, battling, etc). Couple the things that it got right with the classic _Pokemon_ formula and I don't think you have a game that you shouldn't buy, just a game that you should at least give some thought to before making up your mind.  But that's not as snappy a thread title as the one you have  .


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## Black-Ice (Jun 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> How is calling the thread's title "false advertising" not being anal?


 
Because it's one of those titles that addresses an opinion in a way that could be interpreted as a fact, calling any piece of media "something you shouldn't buy" could be considered false advertising to those who believe otherwise.



Gahars said:


> The paragraph long ranting responses certainly doesn't do any favors either.


 
Well if you ignite passions with a flamebait thread like this, you're obviously gonna attract people with a lot to say.
Besides, everything FAST posts is tldr and he seems like he has no emotion at all



Gahars said:


> If you have to cite the Angry Video Game Nerd as an example of your idea of "objective" reviewing, you have gone very, very wrong.


 
meh, got nothing on this one


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## grossaffe (Jun 3, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> But of course nobody hates/remembers that, but its a crime to have lack of post game content the newer installments


I think Gold/Silver spoiled us.  They brought pretty much the entire region of the previous game (kanto) in as a post-game.  From then on out, I think people wanted that kind of post game where you've got an entire continent of post-game to go through, plus Mt. Silver was pretty cool, too.  They set the bar pretty high bringing us back to kanto, and I think people would have liked for future games to do something similar and include Johto, Kanto, etc. as another region to explore and see how they've changed.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Or, you know, "I didn't like it," "I don't think it was fun," etc. etc.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with Ryu's judgement here, but being so stupidly anal is doing nothing to help you. It's Pokemon, dude. Don't be so assblasted. Let it go.


 
Haha, you're telling me to let it go, pssh. Both you and Guild understand how to let things go alright. I bet if I sweeped the golden threads, or the twitter account I'd find several mockeries of myself and others. If that's not hypocritical, I don't know what is. Ryu is fine with my criticisms, but it's everyone else who isn't. This review is an objective 7 or 8, not a TS;DB "Too Shitty; Don't Buy."

The Angry Video Game Nerd does a lot of objective reviews in addition to his lulzy ones. He's a character, and his motto is that "He plays the shitty games so we don't have to." Sounds like this thread's intent.

For the record, my anally mad mode (AMM for you laymen out there) includes cursing and active aggression. I just like replying to people who call me out, and I like to argue. Sue me.

EDIT: See: http://gbatemp.net/threads/games-you-shouldnt-buy-3-pokémon-x-and-y.366867/page-2#post-5012547

Respectful and peaceful. What now?


----------



## Gahars (Jun 3, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> Because it's one of those titles that addresses an opinion in a way that could be interpreted as a fact, calling any piece of media "something you shouldn't buy" could be considered false advertising to those who believe otherwise.


 
It's a recommendation, not a commandment, and if you take it as anything more than that you should probably get off the computer and take a walk.



Black-Ice said:


> Well if you ignite passions with a flamebait thread like this, you're obviously gonna attract people with a lot to say.


 
Is an article that states an opinion and offers a recommendation while still highlighting the positives of the game considered "flamebait" now? If so, I think that reflects more poorly for the people reacting than on the writer.



Black-Ice said:


> Besides, everything FAST posts is tldr and he seems like he has no emotion at all


 
Probably because FAST's sesquipedalian style /= ranting.


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## Sterling (Jun 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Is an article that states an opinion and offers a recommendation while still highlighting the positives of the game considered "flamebait" now? If so, I think that reflects more poorly for the people reacting than on the writer.


 

Again, this column isn't a review section. We already have that. >.>

EDIT: The bad has to severely outweigh the good for a game to be considered not worth wasting your money on. Seriously, a few subjective niggles and one or two legitimate points does not make X and Y unbuyable. Which IS the column's intent. Again, this is not and shouldn't be a review column.


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## Black-Ice (Jun 4, 2014)

Gahars said:


> It's a recommendation, not a commandment, and if you take it as anything more than that you should probably get off the computer and take a walk.


 
If you came up to me in the shop when I buy pepsi and said "hey dude, i think pepsi is terrible" and then 3 other people in the shop started telling me not to buy pepsi, I'm going to respond with why I like pepsi and why I think your opinion is false.
And that's cool, its a healthy discussion provided no one starts being personal.

Meh, I feel like we're digging for drama that isnt present here and I hate to watch 90% of pokemon threads end up that way.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

Wow, hot damn, this got kinda crazy in the past few hours. For one, I read every single comment in each of my topics. So I'm not ignoring anything at all. I take all the responses in stride. But guys. It's ironic of me to say this (considering in some way that I indirectly caused it) but calm down just a little bit.  It's but one opinion and there are still going to be many out there who agree or disagree with me.

Whatever criticisms you guys want to bring to the table, you can go right on ahead and do so. I will make side notes of those criticisms and work with them to help develop other ideas that I have rolling in my head that may not have come to mind in my write ups. Either way, at the end of the day, these articles are a fun little experiment for me to see how far I can go before I have to realize, hey, I might have overstepped myself here. With this piece, I definitely found the line that I could draw. And trust me, everyone, your feedback has been very reliable, and I thank you all for that. In addition, no, this piece was not meant to be a trolly thread to ignite the userbase. I just had a lot of problems that I didn't agree with on my play through of the title, which accounts to one opinion.  So please don't take what I have to say as a commandment. All I want to do with these is to get people thinking twice about what looks like it could be a simple issue. Those who understand my style know that I looooooove digging in the grey areas. 

Sterling: no hard feelings between us. I heard every word you said, and don't worry, I'll keep those thoughts in mind.  I will admit that I had a ton of fun working on this piece, and honestly in the end I might even have gotten a little bit carried away that I forgot the overall objective. So hey, you win that point there.


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## Gahars (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Haha, you're telling me to let it go, pssh. Both you and Guild understand how to let things go alright. I bet if I sweeped the golden threads, or the twitter account I'd find several mockeries of myself and others. If that's not hypocritical, I don't know what is.


 
Chuckling over someone's fanny fury and what you're doing here aren't exactly equivocal. If anything, advice like "Let it go" should only help you advice placement on that list (which has been pretty much defunct for ages anyway).

Even if I am a big fat hypocrite, sure, how does that make my advice any less valid? Good advice is good advice no matter the source.\



Sterling said:


> Ryu is fine with my criticisms, but it's everyone else who isn't.


 
BREAKING: People have opinions. More at 11.



Sterling said:


> This review is an *objective* 7 or 8, not a TS;DB "Too Shitty; Don't Buy."


 


Sterling said:


> The Angry Video Game Nerd does a lot of objective reviews in addition to his lulzy ones. He's a character, and his motto is that "He plays the shitty games so we don't have to." Sounds like this thread's intent.


 
"You keep using that word," etc. etc.



Sterling said:


> For the record, my anally mad mode (AMM for you laymen out there) includes cursing and active aggression. I just like replying to people who call me out, and I like to argue. Sue me.


 
So what, this is just sphincter simmered mode?



Sterling said:


> Again, this column isn't a review section. We already have that. >.>
> 
> EDIT: The bad has to severely outweigh the good for a game to be considered not worth wasting your money on. Seriously, a few subjective niggles and one or two legitimate points does not make X and Y unbuyable. Which IS the column's intent. Again, this is not and shouldn't be a review column.


 

Why not? This seems like a silly thing to get anal over. It's an opinion piece, the same as his other articles. Your standards of what does and does not merit a purchase are not everybody else's standards. This isn't that hard.

I mean, if this is how you want to be when it comes to Pokemon, well... go ahead. It's not like here could stop you. But, you know, it's Pokemon. Is this really worth it?


----------



## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Chuckling over someone's fanny fury and what you're doing here aren't exactly equivocal. If anything, advice like "Let it go" should only help you advice placement on that list (which has been pretty much defunct for ages anyway).
> 
> Even if I am a big fat hypocrite, sure, how does that make my advice any less valid? Good advice is good advice no matter the source.\


 
It's not welcome advice I'm afraid. Sorry to break it to you, but if you can't follow your own advice, it says something about you and not me.



Gahars said:


> BREAKING: People have opinions. More at 11.


BREAKING: I'm not stupid.




Gahars said:


> "You keep using that word," etc. etc.


 
Yes, and so do you. What's your point?



Gahars said:


> So what, this is just sphincter simmered mode?


 
No, I'm being reasonable and replying calmly to baity responses. 



Gahars said:


> Why not? This seems like a silly thing to get anal over. It's an opinion piece, the same as his other articles. Your standards of what does and does not merit a purchase are not everybody else's standards. This isn't that hard.
> 
> I mean, if this is how you want to be when it comes to Pokemon, well... go ahead. It's not like here could stop you. But, you know, it's Pokemon. Is this really worth it?


 

Again, no anger. I'm being reasonable. It's an opinion piece in the wrong category. It's false advertising and not what was expected when it was introduced. You can like what you want, but if you're gonna say "Games you shouldn't buy" it better have very few redeeming qualities. But hey, I get that you and others don't like Pokemon, but that doesn't make them terrible games. They're well made and play nicely.

I'd be harping on this if any good game was on the block. Even something like ME3 which broke all kinds of promises, because that was a good game despite all my former criticisms. Take one step back and squint really hard. My point is dangling right in front of your eyes and you know it's right.


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## Clydefrosch (Jun 4, 2014)

Well, I hope you drew the line at not putting actually good games into this column again. its pretty easy to distinguish good games one just doesnt like from bad games that should never have existed, even though two or three people enjoyed them. Like, personally, I find no shred of fun in fallout 3. from the first second to the very last, i didnt enjoy a single objective or task in this game. yet I know the game itself is pretty good and worth of much praise, even if its simply not made for me. same thing with the original resident evil. i cant play that game without getting annoyed, never could even when it was freshly out, but it did its job well as a zombie themed survival game, using its obvious flaws (controls, cameras, klutzy item and aiming system) to increase tension and the feeling of being in a mostly hopeless situation.
or metroid other m. yes, its not exactly the metroid game the character of samus aran deserved and from a storyline point of view, it had a bunch of weak moments. but from a gameplay point of view, the game was a great action-platformer and the cinematics were very nice too. for the diehard fan, the story thing might be a nogo for whatever reason, but for everyone else, this game is well worth the 3$ it would cost you to get it.

I really wouldn't mind this exact same text in a private blog about games you expected more from, or games you think of as overrated, those would clearly be opinion pieces and while I would still argue against your opinion, it would be a much less of a serious matter.
But this column appeared to try to be more than a simple opinion piece, of which we have way too many out there anyways. Its pretty clear that his wouldn't have generated half the arguments if the title of this was just changed slightly to 'games I think you shouldn't buy', just because it would make clear what type of column this is.

anyways, I'll see what you take from this in your next piece and then decide if im going to keep reading this or not.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 4, 2014)

But this game really isn't worth buying, especially at $40. Yes, I bought it. Yes, I played it all the way through. Yes, it is the most lackluster Pokemon game in a long time. Except for making the world pretty and 3D and making the process of battling other people online marginally easier than in previous generations, these games do next to nothing to set themselves apart from other entries in the series. I sold this game without a regret and have no intention of ever buying it again. This game almost felt like a demo of what could be done with Pokemon on the 3DS, and not so much a full fledged Pokemon game. The lack of post-game content after the way too easy story was probably the final nail in the coffin for me. The game just reeks of very little effort on anything but the graphics this go around.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

Clydefrosch said:


> Well, I hope you drew the line at not putting actually good games into this column again. its pretty easy to distinguish good games one just doesnt like from bad games that should never have existed, even though two or three people enjoyed them. Like, personally, I find no shred of fun in fallout 3. from the first second to the very last, i didnt enjoy a single objective or task in this game. yet I know the game itself is pretty good and worth of much praise, even if its simply not made for me. same thing with the original resident evil. i cant play that game without getting annoyed, never could even when it was freshly out, but it did its job well as a zombie themed survival game, using its obvious flaws (controls, cameras, klutzy item and aiming system) to increase tension and the feeling of being in a mostly hopeless situation.
> or metroid other m. yes, its not exactly the metroid game the character of samus aran deserved and from a storyline point of view, it had a bunch of weak moments. but from a gameplay point of view, the game was a great action-platformer and the cinematics were very nice too. for the diehard fan, the story thing might be a nogo for whatever reason, but for everyone else, this game is well worth the 3$ it would cost you to get it.
> 
> I really wouldn't mind this exact same text in a private blog about games you expected more from, or games you think of as overrated, those would clearly be opinion pieces and while I would still argue against your opinion, it would be a much less of a serious matter.
> ...


 

Well, based on this, I think I unfortunately will lose you as a reader, as I actually had _Metroid Other M _and _Final Fantasy XIII _and sequels down the pipeline somewhere else.  It all goes back to trying to please everyone. I can guarantee you that if you were in these shoes and picking games that warrant social suicide to discuss, games that will draw in a breath from the collective crowd, it's going to be a tough decision.  Who knows, this column might even be retconned and modified so that it becomes a dissenting opinions column. It'd give me more things to talk about, if anything. I really don't know where the course of the column will proceed but I definitely have ideas rolling around in my head. I always have things going. 

And there's the idea of misleading people, which again, I've accounted for and didn't realize in the initial write up.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Well, based on this, I think I unfortunately will lose you as a reader, as I actually had _Metroid Other M _and _Final Fantasy XIII _and sequels down the pipeline somewhere else.  It all goes back to trying to please everyone. I can guarantee you that if you were in these shoes and picking games that warrant social suicide, games that will draw in a breath from the collective crowd, it's going to be a tough decision.
> 
> And there's the idea of misleading people, which again, I've accounted for and didn't realize in the initial write up.


That's what I like to see. You're not compromising your beliefs and this article series just so everybody can happily agree and move on with their lives. I prefer articles like this that actually generate debate and conversation over ones that just present collective agreement. I know Other M and FF XIII won't be met with a lot of resistance, but I know they will still generate good conversation and that's precisely what this forum benefits from.

Anybody looking for something they can agree with 100% every time, well, I guess you don't understand how opinion pieces work.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 4, 2014)

Well that was entertaining and nobody even really had to stoke the fires.

On the series title.... I think I may have been interneting too much as I always read it as hyperbole or as a "now the hype has died down" type series.

As for the game in question... peh it is pokemon. They are really not what I seek in a game (I have previous said things like "it is a training game for computer game skills" and will stand by that) and I would also argue many of its peers, even back on the GBA, took the concept in new and interesting directions where pokemon did little and less. It is probably the mario kart thing all over again -- it is not a terrible game and is actually quite functional, however it is anything but the gold standard for the game style. Given the reigns though you went end up with anything than pokemon.

Alternatively... so the shift to 3d claims another victim by way of game content starvation.


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Well, based on this, I think I unfortunately will lose you as a reader, as I actually had _Metroid Other M _and _Final Fantasy XIII _and sequels down the pipeline somewhere else.  It all goes back to trying to please everyone. I can guarantee you that if you were in these shoes and picking games that warrant social suicide, games that will draw in a breath from the collective crowd, it's going to be a tough decision.
> 
> And there's the idea of misleading people, which again, I've accounted for and didn't realize in the initial write up.


 
Unfortunately, I think FFXIII is worthy of being on the list, but from what I hear, the sequels redeemed the XIII series. Other M is a tossup. It's a poorly executed Metroid game in terms of story, but gameplay-wise it did a decent job. It's worth playing IMO if you can find it decently priced.

When I think of games you shouldn't buy, I think of Duke Nukem Forever, Aliens: Colonial Marines, or Call of Duty: Ghosts. Forever was overhyped, poorly made and the Duke was almost right. A:CM was poorly made, overhyped and just made of lies. Ghosts has gotten better, but the DLC is where it truly shines. If you could get just the DLC, it'd be fine, but that's extra money you shouldn't put into it. 

You can find the irredeemable games everywhere, you just have to look.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Unfortunately, I think FFXIII is worthy of being on the list, but from what I hear, the sequels redeemed the XIII series. Other M is a tossup. It's a poorly executed Metroid game in terms of story, but gameplay-wise it did a decent job. It's worth playing IMO if you can find it decently priced.
> 
> When I think of games you shouldn't buy, I think of Duke Nukem Forever, Aliens: Colonial Marines, or Call of Duty: Ghosts. Forever was overhyped, poorly made and the Duke was almost right. A:CM was poorly made, overhyped and just made of lies. Ghosts has gotten better, but the DLC is where it truly shines. If you could get just the DLC, it'd be fine, but that's extra money you shouldn't put into it.
> 
> You can find the irredeemable games everywhere, you just have to look.


 

AHH! There it is, the root of the problem here. Again, I'm a very gray area writer. The column's original goal was to kind of explore these popular titles and maybe go into why they might NOT warrant a purchase. And the problem here was my initial postings on games that kind of were just called out as being "bad." I went from a clearly defined idea to all of a sudden throwing the column into hot water. I wanted to use the first two as a testing ground of sorts to see what I could handle, and then I used this piece as a test as to how far we can go. Great to say that I found my limit. I'm actually really thinking of modifying the column appropriately so I can kind of set out towards my own goals.


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## Gahars (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> It's not welcome advice I'm afraid. Sorry to break it to you, but if you can't follow your own advice, it says something about you and not me.


 
So then, what, you're continuing down a poor road out of... spite? Stubbornness? A bad end's a bad end no matter how you get there.



Sterling said:


> Again, no anger. I'm being reasonable. It's an opinion piece in the wrong category. It's false advertising and not what was expected when it was introduced. You can like what you want, but if you're gonna say "Games you shouldn't buy" *it better have very few redeeming qualities*.


 
Again, according to whose standard? A game could be mediocre and not worth a purchase; hell, a game could be considered good and still not worth a purchase, depending on the circumstances. You're judging a series by an arbitrary standard you made up and getting mad that it doesn't match up.

Again (again), getting mad that "Games You Shouldn't Buy" is applied loosely is like getting mad at Yahtzee for the punctuation in Zero Punctuation. Has he falsely advertised every time a period or comma pops up on screen? Does he have to speak with absolutely no pauses to simulate writing without punctuation?

If you take every title at literal face value, you're asking for a bad time.



Sterling said:


> But hey, I get that you and others don't like Pokemon, but that doesn't make them terrible games. They're well made and play nicely.


 
You're projecting harder than the local AMC.

This is not the issue. This has never been the issue. I don't care for Pokemon, but I don't care that people care for Pokemon. The problem comes when people take their love for Pokemon to such an extent that they take any criticism of the franchise as a personal slight, something we see here time and time again. It's a video game. Calm your tits.

A "Games You Wouldn't Buy" article on titles I really like, say, Timesplitters 2/Future Perfect or Metroid: Zero Mission, would be just as legitimate as one about this particular game.



Sterling said:


> I'd be harping on this if any good game was on the block. Even something like ME3 which broke all kinds of promises, because that was a good game despite all my former criticisms. Take one step back and squint really hard. My point is dangling right in front of your eyes and you know it's right.


 

You keep going back to this notion that there are objectively "good" games. There aren't. There is no such thing. Every game will have a defender or a fan. If you can't criticize a video game because someone might like it, then you can't criticize any video game. Again, I enjoyed Mass Effect 3, but an article advising people not to buy it would be just as legitimate. So someone doesn't like the same game I do. So that someone recommended people don't buy it. So what?

Just because I disagree with an article's conclusions doesn't mean that the article's very concept is wrong. If you can't handle disagreement, the problem is with you.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Unfortunately, I think FFXIII is worthy of being on the list, but from what I hear, the sequels redeemed the XIII series. Other M is a tossup. It's a poorly executed Metroid game in terms of story, but gameplay-wise it did a decent job. It's worth playing IMO if you can find it decently priced.
> 
> When I think of games you shouldn't buy, I think of Duke Nukem Forever, Aliens: Colonial Marines, or Call of Duty: Ghosts. Forever was overhyped, poorly made and the Duke was almost right. A:CM was poorly made, overhyped and just made of lies. Ghosts has gotten better, but the DLC is where it truly shines. If you could get just the DLC, it'd be fine, but that's extra money you shouldn't put into it.
> 
> You can find the irredeemable games everywhere, you just have to look.


The thing is, there's no point in doing an article on a game everybody already knows falls ridiculously below expectations. Duke Nuken Forever, for example, everybody knew by day one that it was not a worthy purchase at almost any price. Aliens: Colonial Marines? Same idea. People are well versed in how poor it is. Call of Duty: Ghosts? In the eye of the beholder, but on here, it would just be a circle jerk of agreement because GBAtemp doesn't like barely changing CoD but adores barely changing Pokemon.

The point of Games You Shouldn't Buy isn't just to tell people "oh yeah, these games were bad back when they released 5+ years ago". Arguably, Other M will fail in this respect, though it is still so controversial even today that I think it will be a fun one regardless. These articles are going to stir the pot a little. That's what will make them good articles. Once again, if you're simply expecting something you can endlessly agree with, that perfectly matches your opinions or barely moves away from them, you don't understand how opinion pieces work.

To Ryu: if you get the chance before too long, maybe consider doing Watch_Dogs, or seeing if somebody would be willing to do a guest piece on it. Although I know it's established that it doesn't meet expectations at this point, it might be nice to get an idea of just how far from those expectations the game fell based on the opinion of a member here, and not just all the professional reviews or five sentence user reviews on metacritic.


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## grossaffe (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Well, based on this, I think I unfortunately will lose you as a reader, as I actually had _Metroid Other M _and _Final Fantasy XIII _and sequels down the pipeline somewhere else.  It all goes back to trying to please everyone. I can guarantee you that if you were in these shoes and picking games that warrant social suicide to discuss, games that will draw in a breath from the collective crowd, it's going to be a tough decision.  Who knows, this column might even be retconned and modified so that it becomes a dissenting opinions column. It'd give me more things to talk about, if anything. I really don't know where the course of the column will proceed but I definitely have ideas rolling around in my head. I always have things going.
> 
> And there's the idea of misleading people, which again, I've accounted for and didn't realize in the initial write up.


 
Before you do the article on Other M, do you believe you'd feel the same way about the game if it wasn't a Metroid game, but a completely separate game with it's own universe?  It looks like this series is going in the way of games that might not live up to the expectations of the franchise rather than being out-right bad games.  I'm not sure it would fit under Dissenting Opinions, either, as there's a pretty strong following of people upset with the game.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

It's also a numbers game. If I talk of a universally dull game people won't care. Evidence? Look at the view counts and discussions here. It's crushed anything that's been created in the past few days.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 4, 2014)

Gahars said:


> It'd be like calling Yahtzee a fraud because Zero Punctuation has punctuation.


 
I was tempted to quote Yahtzee ("I know it's your opinion, but your opinion is just wrong"), but decided against it.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 4, 2014)

Nathan Drake said:


> To Ryu: if you get the chance before too long, maybe consider doing Watch_Dogs, or seeing if somebody would be willing to do a guest piece on it. Although I know it's established that it doesn't meet expectations at this point, it might be nice to get an idea of just how far from those expectations the game fell based on the opinion of a member here, and not just all the professional reviews or five sentence user reviews on metacritic.



We (Sicklyboy and myself, Ubisoft sent the site copies) do actually have a review on it coming up for the PS3 version, Sicklyboy has already streaming some stuff http://gbatemp.net/threads/watch_dogs-gbatemp-official-review-stream-session-5.366729/
I still have more to play before I make a proper call/do the writeup though so I will leave it hanging there.


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## Reyon (Jun 4, 2014)

Man... Pokemon, eh? >_>
I think I played just about every one of them, except for the 3DS ones.
I must say, I was quite tempted to get this when it was announced at first, just to play with my other nerd friends...
But then, it came... the knowledge was unbearable...
I finally discovered the truth behind Pokemon games: the grind wasn't only about taking down the other Pokemons, it was about taking down CERTAIN KINDS of Pokemon to raise a specific stat of your own, to make it "the perfect one". The IVs and EVs bullshit. Before I knew it, I was happier D:
Not trying to complain (ok, I already am >_>) or to make people stop playing Pokemon (which they never will).
I just want to take this off my chest. I really have no idea why the developers never thought of a better method of raising Pokemon than EVs... it's just so... boring.
It turns an otherwise fun experience into an unnecessary complex mathematical struggle to see who the new World Einstein is.
The battle system would be fun if at least some variables were in play, but not even that: the Speed stat also dictates who will act first, even with a 1 point difference (except for Quick Attack and the like).
It really doesn't feel like you're playing a game, rather, it looks as if you were making a thesis about which numerical powers are more effective when in play against others.
Man, I liked Pokemon... I really did. >_>
Until some months ago, when this light shone upon my forehead.
Maybe ignorance is a good thing after all.


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

Gahars said:


> So then, what, you're continuing down a poor road out of... spite? Stubbornness? A bad end's a bad end no matter how you get there.


 
I'm glad you think this is about you. It makes it all the easier to laugh.



Gahars said:


> Again, according to whose standard? A game could be mediocre and not worth a purchase; hell, a game could be considered good and still not worth a purchase, depending on the circumstances. You're judging a series by an arbitrary standard you made up and getting mad that it doesn't match up.
> 
> Again (again), getting mad that "Games You Shouldn't Buy" is applied loosely is like getting mad at Yahtzee for the punctuation in Zero Punctuation. Has he falsely advertised every time a period or comma pops up on screen? Does he have to speak with absolutely no pauses to simulate writing without punctuation?
> 
> If you take every title at literal face value, you're asking for a bad time.


*Shrug* If there was no standard than this couldn't be a possibility. Look at any game objectively and you can find flaws. The key is "does the bad outweigh the good?" That's your standard, and I think we can all agree that X and Y doesn't belong here for that very reason.

You seem to be real good at taking everything for face value Gahars.



Gahars said:


> You're projecting harder than the local AMC.
> 
> This is not the issue. This has never been the issue. I don't care for Pokemon, but I don't care that people care for Pokemon. The problem comes when people take their love for Pokemon to such an extent that they take any criticism of the franchise as a personal slight, something we see here time and time again. It's a video game. Calm your tits.
> 
> A "Games You Wouldn't Buy" article on titles I really like, say, Timesplitters 2/Future Perfect or Metroid: Zero Mission, would be just as legitimate as one about this particular game.


Jokes on you, I don't actively watch movies in theatres. <- This means I have no idea what you're getting at.

See, you hate the people who like pokemon more than you hate the game. I've yet to profess my love for the series (though it can be inferred), and just because I defend something or attack it does not mean I'm doing it blindly.

I also have no tits to calm, and none of this is being taken as a personal slight like you're making it out to be. Try again.

I've also never played any of those, so I couldn't say either way.



Gahars said:


> You keep going back to this notion that there are objectively "good" games. There aren't. There is no such thing. Every game will have a defender or a fan. If you can't criticize a video game because someone might like it, then you can't criticize any video game. Again, I enjoyed Mass Effect 3, but an article advising people not to buy it would be just as legitimate. So someone doesn't like the same game I do. So that someone recommended people don't buy it. So what?
> 
> Just because I disagree with an article's conclusions doesn't mean that the article's very concept is wrong. If you can't handle disagreement, the problem is with you.


 

ob·jec·tive
əbˈjektiv
adjective


1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"
You assume I am incapable of being objectively critical in my analysis of games I like. That's why you're wrong here. And yes, games can be objectively good. Just like movies, music, and books can be objectively good and execute their intents well. And again, there's three categories of games: good, bad but redeemable, and ugly. The bottom line is that you're putting the value of zero to a game that objectively has more value. You can have an opinion, but when it moves from opinion to a factual statement like the thread title I get salty.

I'm having polite discourse, and apparently it's something I can't handle. Nice try Gahars, but I can see right through your facade and see your true form.



Nathan Drake said:


> The thing is, there's no point in doing an article on a game everybody already knows falls ridiculously below expectations. Duke Nuken Forever, for example, everybody knew by day one that it was not a worthy purchase at almost any price. Aliens: Colonial Marines? Same idea. People are well versed in how poor it is. Call of Duty: Ghosts? In the eye of the beholder, but on here, it would just be a circle jerk of agreement because GBAtemp doesn't like barely changing CoD but adores barely changing Pokemon.
> 
> The point of Games You Shouldn't Buy isn't just to tell people "oh yeah, these games were bad back when they released 5+ years ago". Arguably, Other M will fail in this respect, though it is still so controversial even today that I think it will be a fun one regardless. These articles are going to stir the pot a little. That's what will make them good articles. Once again, if you're simply expecting something you can endlessly agree with, that perfectly matches your opinions or barely moves away from them, you don't understand how opinion pieces work.


 
Yes, and you can extrapolate on why they're bad and what people expected when they came out. Otherwise Other M and FFXIII wouldn't be good candidates either. They're 4 and 5 years old respectively. Length of time means nothing in the timeless format of games. Which I get what you mean now by (fail in this aspect".

But if you're gonna put objectively good games on the block, they need convincing reasons why the bad outweighs the good. This article fell flat with mostly subjective musings with a few minor objective flaws.


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## vayanui8 (Jun 4, 2014)

Reyon said:


> Man... Pokemon, eh? >_>
> I think I played just about every one of them, except for the 3DS ones.
> I must say, I was quite tempted to get this when it was announced at first, just to play with my other nerd friends...
> But then, it came... the knowledge was unbearable...
> ...


If that's the case this may be the perfect pokemon game for you. Evs can now be gained through mini games, and hoards battles make the old method extremely fast. Some item adjustments made ivs breeding easier too and wonder trade is filled with breeding rejects to give you a better start for iv breeding. All the flaws of the old methods have been streamlined to make it more efficient and reasonable to get your pokemon perfect


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## Reyon (Jun 4, 2014)

vayanui8 said:


> If that's the case this may be the perfect pokemon game for you. Evs can now be gained through mini games, and hoards battles make the old method extremely fast. Some item adjustments made ivs breeding easier too and wonder trade is filled with breeding rejects to give you a better start for iv breeding. All the flaws of the old methods have been streamlined to make it more efficient and reasonable to get your pokemon perfect


 

Hmmmm... maybe so, I can't say for sure least I try it, but I don't think this would be enough. I have issues with the whole battle system, not just the raising methods. But I'm glad you said this. Maybe they are finally seeing how boring it was getting after years of games with the same mechanics over and over again. IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE O_O


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki: That's good. I'd be fine with an opinionated article column instead of a hard facts spread. In fact, I prefer it to this. It makes discourse easier without having to argue the semantics with people. *Looks at Gahars*


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Ryukouki: That's good. I'd be fine with an opinionated article column instead of a hard facts spread. In fact, I prefer it to this. It makes discourse easier without having to argue the semantics with people. *Looks at Gahars*


 

God damn it, now I have to try and redesign a new logo. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY!


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> God damn it, now I have to try and redesign a new logo. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY!


 
NOOO, I liked the logo too. :<


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> NOOO, I liked the logo too. :<


 

Actually, I dunno. Maybe it's possible to salvage this. Must think about this.  Problem is right now everyone has some bloated expectation on what they want to see, and its beginning to drive me a bit mad.  This is but a hobby for me to do, so remember that.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki, you're crazy.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Ryukouki, you're crazy.


 

Must be doing my job right then.


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## Seph54 (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> When the game switched gens the first time, all of G/S/C content was shoved out of the way. R/S/E had arguably about the same amount of endgame content as X and Y did, and Platinum was the one with the MOST content because of how much better they were able to use their resources. I'm not arguing it wasn't rush, but what's there is polished like a bronzong mirror. Simplifying it to Mewtwo is over simplifying it, I merely mentioned him because it was a nod to older players. Plus, keep in mind that the games are getting huge. They're still trying to get the hang of the hardware.


 
Emerald had more post game content than X and Y lol. Not only could you go and capture the remaining Gen 3 Legendary pokemon including Groudon and Kyorge in one game cart(this wasn't seen again until Platinum, where you could get Palkia and Dialga, and hasn't been seen since). The battle frontier was a whole new beast, which was extremely difficult, and took strategy to conquer(with it getting more difficult after getting a silver pendent from that respective facility). R/S had a similar post game situation as X and Y, but even then you still had more places to explore more, more legends to capture post game, and better replay value than X and Y(imo). X and Y was just plan bad when it came to post game content.

I know we can all agree that the 3rd game or pair of games(whichever Game Freak decides) will improve on X and Y and change things similar to how it always been with the re-vist to the region.


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## Gahars (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> *Shrug* If there was no standard than this couldn't be a possibility. Look at any game objectively and you can find flaws. The key is "does the bad outweigh the good?" That's your standard, and I think we can all agree that X and Y doesn't belong here for that very reason.


 
Again, again, what objective standard? One man's bug is another's feature. Sure, maybe whether or not a game turns on can be measured objectively, but after that point, you run right into the brick wall of subjectivity and personal opinion. There's no universal standard or checklist you can apply to games that determine whether or not video games are good or fun.

Video games are not cars, where you can just run the engine or crash it into a wall to determine its quality (and even there, there's still a lot of room for personal opinion and taste).



Sterling said:


> See, you hate the people who like pokemon more than you hate the game.


 
Where the hell did you get that?



Gahars said:


> I don't care for Pokemon, *but I don't care that people care for Pokemon*. *The problem comes when people take their love for Pokemon to such an extent that they take any criticism of the franchise as a personal slight*, something we see here time and time again.


 

It's an issue of fanaticism, not difference of opinion. Really, you could replace "Pokemon" in there with anything and the point is just the same - when you hold something as above criticism, that's a problem.



Gahars said:


> ob·jec·tive
> əbˈjektiv
> adjective
> 
> ...


 
Pfft, what?

No, you can't. Feelings on art (like video games, movies, music, paintings, dance, performance, etc.) are inherently influenced by feelings or opinions, along with a multitude of other factors, because art is based entirely around feelings, opinions, emotions, and all that other gooey, subjective stuff. It's simply asinine to assert otherwise.

Furthermore, it's silly to put quality into such rigid categories. Quality is a spectrum with huge ranges, and it's limiting to say video games or anything else can only fit into three predetermined categories. What about games that are just mediocre? Not quite good but certainly not bad? What if a game is just bad, but not enough to be ugly? What if it's just there?

That's not to say that you can't examine things critically and* try* (keyword) to be objective in your analysis, but any critic worth his salt will tell you that your own perception will color your work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, either. Just, you know, keep that in the back of your mind when reading and you'll be all hunky dory.




Gahars said:


> Nice try Gahars, but I can see right through your facade and see your true form.


 
This isn't the place for your high school poetry, Sterling.

What is my true form, though? Do I have wings? Am I all sick and gnarly, like some sort of dragon? Or maybe a wyvern, the hipsters of the dragon kingdom? How swole am I? DYEL-level or too swole to control? Please respond.



Sterling said:


> That's good. I'd be fine with an opinionated article column instead of a hard facts spread.


 
Good thing you already got that in post #1 on page #1, then.


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## jagerstaffel (Jun 4, 2014)

I like Pokemon X/Y. I think folks were spoiled by all the years of Action replay for the previous games, or maybe I'm speaking for myself 

I'm starting to treat these threads more like "Games you shouldn't buy at full price"  (because I got this game brand new for cheap  )


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## Black-Ice (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I actually had _Metroid Other M _and _Final Fantasy XIII _and sequels down the pipeline somewhere else.


 
Welp you've lost me as a reader.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> ob·jec·tive
> əbˈjektiv
> adjective
> 
> ...



You manage to quote the dictionary and still miss the point... that is impressive.

How can you possibly have a good review where opinions do not come into it? Hell half the point of finding a good review is to find a reviewer that has tastes align somewhat with your own, even within a concept -- I really like computerised card games but I am not the best at many so can not give a truly good account of the AI and all statistics for win/loss and beyond are for me is something I have to skip past on the menu. Indeed people have often come the other way and railed against the sound, graphics, gameplay and donkey type reviews.

On the accomplishing what it aims to do thing. That could be a baseline but on the flipside I have watched many a horror film because I found it hilarious, sat through many a boring game because I liked the engine (pokemon fails in this for me) and otherwise twisted things towards my own needs (even going so far as to actively do it by taking up ROM hacking and video editing). Going into the absurd territory I am probably duty bound to make an example like I could write some incredibly racist screed and have objectively do what it sets out to do, does not make it good though. One might even argue intent is almost irrelevant in a lot of cases.
Also what is objective good? In music discord was not considered good, breaking from that gave us heavy metal (see tritone). Coming the other way in a post battlefield earth world most cinematographers are rather more conservative with their use of Dutch angles (off 90 degrees camera), tropes may be considered bad now but originally they might have been considered a new and interesting form.
Do the good guys win... what is good, also "bad" people win all the time and such things make for great stories.
Going for facts on pokemon
The game system boils down to an objectively worse test of combinations and methods compared to a lot of already established games and mathematical possibilities.
The above is true for competitive between players at the extremes. Ryukouki had a thread on the matter even.
The above is true for the games themselves (see the comments along the lines of soloing with the starter)
The game is not great as a test of any great skill. We had this discussion for legal mon generation. It turns out the system is so much luck (though not a truly crazy amount) and press a, and it also does not boil down a long timeframe to do it (if you can legitimately make a competition worthy set within a week, or possibly a long weekend it does not count so much).
To put it in the parlance of some game types the PVE is bad and the PVP is bad if you want a challenge.

However if we come at it from a rpg lite angle then yeah it will teach you basic move management, party management, the concept of weaknesses, movement/action/item puzzles, reading for directions, resource management... basically all the stuff you need when the game has that but is not so forgiving. I know all though and, unlike a lot of books on various concepts, I am seldom in the market for a basic game to retread that (not to mention the concept of genres is collapsing and we are getting nice mixes, I can even have a lot of that in a fighting game now if I did decide a refresher was in order).

You seem to be somewhat hung up on the feature name, can you not instead read it as hyperbole? Attention grabbing names/headlines are a common concept after all.

*Books, film, paintings.... realistically not a lot has happened in them that could not have been done before (albeit with a lot more effort/money in the case of film). Or if you prefer I can get much the same thing from a 30/40 year old book, film and painting as I can from a modern one, barring something to lose myself (useful but hardly a thing to hitch your wagon to) and throwbacks there is no way I can get my C64 to do something like Mass Effect. Beyond that people are still figuring out game design -- ask most game designers to cover game theory and you will get a blank look, ask people tangentially involved with films about the basics of cinematography and you will probably be able to have a nice lecture/discussion.*

It seems we have dived headlong almost into antilogic territory so I will cut this post off here.


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

FAST, you simply can't have a good review without an opinion. You can however be objectively critical despite your enjoyment of the media (it's why I factor in _my_ enjoyment into a score). That was not my point. Can you say that something doesn't do something good because you didn't enjoy it? Either it's legitimately doing something wrong, or you're not being objective and giving credit where credit is due (which you do even with games you don't like all that much). And that last part is the hardest thing to do.

This was entirely an argument of semantics and expectations. I knew of course that these would require a certain amount of opinions, but I expected a high amount of objectivity, not the opposite. If you're going to bring in things like music and other very personal tastes, the headlines need to change to reflect it. I _hate_ click bait and misleading titles.

The Crysis article was a good example of personal experience and objectivity. It was subjective and extremely passionate in that the user had a terrible experience with it and kinda jaded him. The first article was also very objective and tight which had very real criticisms. My expectations with the title (and others) led me to call out this particular article for its subjectivity. Objectively it does very little to convince me that X and Y was a good choice for the block anyway. It was a very weak article on all levels, and I needed to voice my displeasure.

Edit: And to be fair, there's more objectivity then subjectivity in there. Ryu really tried to justify the space, but unfortunately the article ended up being extremely nitpicky because of it. It felt like he was drawing at straws.

EDIT 2, Gahars: In case you didn't get the Fallout reference, I was joking on the true form thing. It was also a pass at the conversation. No Bark Noonan liked to rant along about crazy shit, which that particular convo was getting way off topic.


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## emigre (Jun 4, 2014)

Wow, I guess Pokemons is serious busines.

I thought X and Y were alright and enjoyed the gaems.


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## medoli900 (Jun 4, 2014)

The elite 4 was easy? Why it is the first one that i actually found difficult. In other gen, my team was never wiped out. In X/Y, my team was wiped out 4 time before i could win against Drasna.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 4, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Can you say that something doesn't do something good because you didn't enjoy it? Either it's legitimately doing something wrong, or you're not being objective and giving credit where credit is due (which you do even with games you don't like all that much). And that last part is the hardest thing to do.



You can indeed, there is a concept otherwise known as greater or lesser than the sum of its parts. It is quite possible for the rest of something to drag the good stuff down. I may try to work around it in various ways but the fact remains it is possible. Likewise there is also the "great system, pity it is pointless in the grand scheme of things" problem.


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> You can indeed, there is a concept otherwise known as greater or lesser than the sum of its parts. It is quite possible for the rest of something to drag the good stuff down. I may try to work around it in various ways but the fact remains it is possible. Likewise there is also the "great system, pity it is pointless in the grand scheme of things" problem.


 
Definitely. You're doing great on your reviews, but you do get a bit wordy lol. Posting habits.


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## chavosaur (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Well, based on this, I think I unfortunately will lose you as a reader, as I actually had _Metroid Other M _and _Final Fantasy XIII  _


_
You ought to put the entirety of Final fantasy as a column, as no one should spend their money's on such bad gaems ;O;_


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

I have decided to put this column on an indefinite hiatus. You are welcome to voice your thoughts but further posting for this series is done for the time being.


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I have decided to put this column on an indefinite hiatus. You are welcome to voice your thoughts but further posting for this series is done for the time being.


 
I see. I'm sure you have your reasons and it's not due to previous criticisms. I hope to see your other ideas soon, you're one of the better Mag Staff we've had in recent years and your record has been really spot on until now.


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## natkoden (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I have decided to put this column on an indefinite hiatus. You are welcome to voice your thoughts but further posting for this series is done for the time being.


 

Don't worry, we get the point. You don't like good games and the final message is: don't buy games, go read a book (that's if you like books, of course)


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## Sterling (Jun 4, 2014)

natkoden said:


> Don't worry, we get the point. You don't like good games and the final message is: don't buy games, go read a book (that's if you like books, of course)


 
That's not what he intended and you know it.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I have decided to put this column on an indefinite hiatus. You are welcome to voice your thoughts but further posting for this series is done for the time being.


 







Oh boy. This is why we can't have nice things. Stay classy, GBATemp.


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## Qtis (Jun 4, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> I have decided to put this column on an indefinite hiatus. You are welcome to voice your thoughts but further posting for this series is done for the time being.


 
That makes me a bit sad. Actually the reactions to this thread remind me of what Ars Technica just posted after the WWDC '14: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/06/great-artists-steal-the-ios-8-features-inspired-by-android/

The comment section and forum discussions show exactly why this kind of writing is needed in this day and age. Just like these articles by you Ryukouki. Not everyone agrees with everything (who honestly ever has?), but going with only one opinion is not productive. The discussion here and in the previous threads have been some of the most interesting readings in a while. I'd have participated in many a occasion, but I'm preoccupied elsewhere at the present time.

Kudos to all posters, too. I may not agree with most of you, but this thread is golden. I like what I'm seeing, since the OP created discussion in a subject that is both easy to relate to (who hasn't played a Pokémon game?) as well as easy to love/hate.


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## Ryukouki (Jun 4, 2014)

Qtis said:


> That makes me a bit sad. Actually the reactions to this thread remind me of what Ars Technica just posted after the WWDC '14: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/06/great-artists-steal-the-ios-8-features-inspired-by-android/
> 
> The comment section and forum discussions show exactly why this kind of writing is needed in this day and age. Just like these articles by you Ryukouki. Not everyone agrees with everything (who honestly ever has?), but going with only one opinion is not productive. The discussion here and in the previous threads have been some of the most interesting readings in a while. I'd have participated in many a occasion, but I'm preoccupied elsewhere at the present time.
> 
> Kudos to all posters, too. I may not agree with most of you, but this thread is golden. I like what I'm seeing, since the OP created discussion in a subject that is both easy to relate to (who hasn't played a Pokémon game?) as well as easy to love/hate.


 

Some of those comments are spot on to what I'm witnessing here. 

EDIT: I may just keep this going after all. What I choose to do with it, however, will be something that you will all bear with.


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## osaka35 (Jun 7, 2014)

I think I'd like to see more of how not buying it matters, rather than just it being a critique of a popular game. More than just a "I don't like this popular game for x, y, and z reasons", it'd be nice if there was a "this is why we can't have nice things" flavour. If that makes sense at all.


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## Hells Malice (Jun 7, 2014)

Could not disagree more.

X/Y was the first decent pokemon game since gold/silver. Ever since gold and silver i'd just play pokemon for maybe an hour, get bored, drop it. Same old same old. X/Y finally changed things up just enough that I put in QUITE a few hours.
First pokemon in years to actually be worth a buy. The crappy remakes being done are a real step backwards.

As for difficulty, really? Every pokemon game can be beaten with 1 or 2 pokemans. They're simple. Usually the fun and difficulty is training up your team and catching 'em all. Those...whatever they're called, things where you fight battle after battle with them becoming progressively harder, is what is supposed to be the difficult part. I found that pretty fun in x/y, and get my ass kicked.


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## kirixa (Jun 18, 2014)

I couldn't agree more with Ryu (funny be the post right behind someone finding the exact opposite).

I've been playing pokemon ever since Blue and have bought and finished 13 of the main titles (RBYGCSELGDHGBB2Y) and I must say, I found x/y to be the very worst to date. I'm not going to explain why (since Ryu did that for me). B2/W2, those were games. In fact, the whole fifth gen was GREAT! GF actually tried to start fresh, new continent, no old pokes, no third (fusion of the other 2) game but actual sequels, exp based on levels, interesting characters with a backstory, revolutionary plottwists, etc, etc. I really feel GF made XY just to get new people into the games, and the only way they tried to get away with it with old fans was by giving them fan service (old starters, mewtwo in a cave, a kanto bird,...).

All in all I regret purchasing a X/Y copy, I would have rather bought platinum (never played it).


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## codezer0 (Jun 18, 2014)

Gen 5? Interesting characters? I'm sorry, but I don't think you were playing the same game as everyone else.

N was not interesting... at all. In fact, he was so worthless he could have been written out of the story entirely without any real plot holes forming. And there weren't any plot twists, whatsoever.

Diamond was 240 hours worth of work. There was nothing fun about it, especially with the ungodly amount of processing lag to slow everything down. Black 2 - in a hurried frenzy to complete the game before Nintendo shut down WFC - was nearly 600 hours of pure, mind-numbing pain. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I will concede that X is the first game since Gen 1 where I was able to catch a team of six and actually stick with that troop through the whole game. And it was heartwarming to be able to pet and care for muh Jolty. But even after all of that, I just don't have any motivation to go through the process of 100%ing the game, or even to continue playing, especially if they're going to program it in such a way that requires me to deal with the unadulterated nightmare that is the GTS all over again.


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