# New UK Prime Minister. 2022 edition. Liz Truss, conservative.



## FAST6191 (Sep 6, 2022)

In a somewhat surprising turn of events the new UK prime minister (last one outed after some fairly minor scandals actually which was impressive given what he got away with previously) and leader of conservative party is Liz Truss. Most would not have bet on her after initial rounds of candidates were put forward a few months back, and even after they got whittled down she was still somewhat lower on the odds.

Pick any news site and you can probably find a dozen articles
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62596329
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...omes-uk-prime-minister-meeting-queen-balmoral
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11184991/Truss-shakes-hands-Queen-official-takes-PM.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19720415/liz-truss-is-officially-prime-minister/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-johnson-queen-balmoral-latest-b2160693.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...son-speech-tory-leadership-new-prime-minister
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-live-prime-minister-27916442
https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/06/liz-...to-officially-become-prime-minister-17308571/
...

Previous posts were some reasonably notable ones, though none of the major ones people might well know the names for, some have dubbed her a conservative in name only (though that/the ? in name only could apply to any number of political movers, and most of the candidates of everything these days) and rather tepid as these things go (time will tell as to whether she is as weak as Teresa May, not the previous prime minister but the one before that. Those expecting any kind of firebrand or populist are probably going to be disappointed, not that any populist anywhere in the world I have seen has done all that much when all is said and done).
If we believe the prime minister has any great powers (possibly more than some countries but hardly that much and still constrained by any number of factors would be my assessment) then it is about 2 years before the next general election*, inflation is out of control (energy bills being the main topic but food is not far behind, though it seems some still believe in modern monetary theory and more money is to be printed), the popularity boost that saw the so called red wall drop last time is minimal (and the local elections that have happened since, consider something of a bellwether on the way the tide is going have been... not good), the labour party and their leader ( https://gbatemp.net/threads/new-uk-labour-party-main-left-wing-party-leader-keir-starmer.561791/ ) actually seem to be getting something gone (though as a coalition of unions, old school working class**, literal communists, the intersectionals, default opposition and one or two more classical labour types then many masters do not a cohesive vision make) , the leaving the EU lark is still having a bit of a hangover (especially as it pertains to the whole country of countries thing) and the UK is still suffering from being a first world nation after industry has gone, nowhere near enough housing has been built for decades, something of a divided political system and while not quite as much of a carte blanche as after the last general election then still a fairly decent majority ( https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk/MPs , of the 650 MPs, of which 639 vote then Conservative (357), Labour (200), Scottish National Party (44), Liberal Democrat (14)).

*UK general elections are sometimes a bit different to elsewhere in the world. These days they are nominally on a schedule but they can be called outside that, as indeed the last one was.

**arguably what left them with the fall of the red wall mentioned.


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## smf (Sep 6, 2022)

The result was announced yesterday, but known before hand.

Liz Truss interview


Joy Lycett response to Liz Truss


Joy Lycett response to Rishi Sunak


And then this happens...


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## x65943 (Sep 7, 2022)

Truss is another May, a scapegoat to run the party while public sentiment is negative - so that once it's time for a serious election, an actual Tory star can come to the forefront and attempt to win. Whereas no one expects any Tory wins any time soon. 

Election is 3 years out, but Labour is ahead like mad at the moment


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## lolcatzuru (Sep 7, 2022)

whoa! no communism in england? awesome!


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## Xzi (Sep 7, 2022)

Sucks to be stuck under the same party that brought you the Brexit dumpster fire for three more years, not that there's any putting that genie back in the bottle now.  C'est la vie.


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## Maximumbeans (Sep 7, 2022)

It's hard to muster the energy to even be disappointed. I mean, we knew it was going to be Truss, ever since it came down to her and Sunak there's basically been no talk of a competition to even have.
I wish we actually had an opposition showing its face. Starmer kind of just pops up to state the obvious and disappears again. I'm not sure what he spends his time doing. It'll be fun to see Liz take him on in PMQs though, we'll see if she can do any better than Boris but I highly doubt it.


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## x65943 (Sep 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> It's hard to muster the energy to even be disappointed. I mean, we knew it was going to be Truss, ever since it came down to her and Sunak there's basically been no talk of a competition to even have.
> I wish we actually had an opposition showing its face. Starmer kind of just pops up to state the obvious and disappears again. I'm not sure what he spends his time doing. It'll be fun to see Liz take him on in PMQs though, we'll see if she can do any better than Boris but I highly doubt it.


Nothing Starmer can do, it's not possible for anyone but a Tory to be PM until 2025

That is unless there was mass rebellion in the Tory ranks and they collapsed their own government and called for a no confidence vote (hint: that will never ever happen, they would all be de-selected at election time)

Labour is currently smashing the polls right now, so they are doing their best - people clearly favor labour at the moment. All they can do is muster a strong opposition until the next general election


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## Maximumbeans (Sep 7, 2022)

x65943 said:


> Nothing Starmer can do, it's not possible for anyone but a Tory to be PM until 2025
> 
> That is unless there was mass rebellion in the Tory ranks and they collapsed their own government and called for a no confidence vote (hint: that will never ever happen, they would all be de-selected at election time)
> 
> Labour is currently smashing the polls right now, so they are doing their best - people clearly favor labour at the moment. All they can do is muster a strong opposition until the next general election


Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to seize the country by force, I just wish he was more visible and vocal in his opposition right now.

But like you say, if Labour are doing well in the polls, they just need to keep it rolling until the time comes.


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## x65943 (Sep 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to seize the country by force, I just wish he was more visible and vocal in his opposition right now.
> 
> But like you say, if Labour are doing well in the polls, they just need to keep it rolling until the time comes.


If there was an election today, no Tory would be safe






If we try to calculate how many seats that would be in a FPTP system:

Electoral Calculus (Proposed 2023 Boundaries):

Labour - 379 (+176)
Tories - 178 (-187)
Lib Dems - 17 (+6)
Greens - 1
SNP - 54 (+6)
Plaid - 3 (-1)
NI - 18

That would be 58% of seats for Labour, or basically free rein


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## Maximumbeans (Sep 7, 2022)

x65943 said:


> If there was an election today, no Tory would be safe
> 
> [graph]


Now that _is_ encouraging  fingers crossed.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to seize the country by force, I just wish he was more visible and vocal in his opposition right now.


It was pointless going against Boris, he was the classic playground bully.

I think PMQ will be interesting today. Especially as one of the first things Liz will do is implement policy that Labour have been going on about for a while.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

x65943 said:


> If there was an election today, no Tory would be safe


In the 2019 general election, Conservatives landslide victory was achieved with 42.4% of the vote compared to Labours 40% of the vote. So Labour hasn't gained very much.

Also we aren't having an election tomorrow and right now it's a shit show, we don't know what it will be like in a couple of years time.

Polls are notoriously wrong.


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## Xzi (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> In the 2019 general election, Conservatives landslide victory was achieved with 42.4% of the vote compared to Labours 40% of the vote. So Labour hasn't gained very much.


Nice way of saying conservatives are hemorrhaging voters.  Labour didn't need to gain anything at all, but they did.



smf said:


> Also we aren't having an election tomorrow and right now it's a shit show, we don't know what it will be like in a couple of years time.


Nothing is gonna change as long as conservatives have no new ideas and aren't willing to try anything new even if they did.  They're a lot like American conservatives in that regard.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Nothing is gonna change as long as conservatives have no new ideas and aren't willing to try anything new even if they did.  They're a lot like American conservatives in that regard.


The rumored help for energy is going to go a long way, people have pretty much overlooked the sewage being pumped into the sea & so I think we can tell what their priorities are.

I still hear "however bad this becomes, at least it's not labour" quite a lot


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## Xzi (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> I still hear "however bad this becomes, at least it's not labour" quite a lot


Yeah, from diehard conservatives I'm sure.  Would rather see the country driven off a cliff than ever admit their guys fucked up, and bad.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

Nothing surprising about it, the 0.2% who elected her made it really clear


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## Maximumbeans (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> I still hear "however bad this becomes, at least it's not labour" quite a lot


That's literally the only card left to play. Some people are so fucking desperate that they'll pull shit out like 'have people forgotten Gordon Brown?!'. The whataboutism is off the charts.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> That's literally the only card left to play. Some people are so fucking desperate that they'll pull shit out like 'have people forgotten Gordon Brown?!'. The whataboutism is off the charts.



I haven't. Things were nowhere as bad under Brown. Interestingly enough, however, when Brown became PM the tories banged incessantly about how his appointment was illegitimate and required a GE. I can't help but notice how quiet they are on this.


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## Maximumbeans (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I haven't. Things were nowhere as bad under Brown. Interestingly enough, however, when Brown became PM the tories banged incessantly about how his appointment was illegitimate and required a GE. I can't help but notice how quiet they are on this.


Absolutely, he wasn't great but we weren't anywhere near the shite we're chest-deep in now. Different times, I know, but still.
Good point concerning his appointment. Just look at the track record since then!


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> Absolutely, he wasn't great but we weren't anywhere near the shite we're chest-deep in now. Different times, I know, but still.



Wasn't even his fault entirely back then, middle of financial crisis caused by the Americans!


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Sucks to be stuck under the same party that brought you the Brexit dumpster fire for three more years, not that there's any putting that genie back in the bottle now.  C'est la vie.


I voted for Brexit, so did evey one of my friends and family and so did most of the people in the UK. Get over it - we don't want to be ruled and our laws set by some unelected dictats in Europe that never grew up in our country and don't understand our people or our needs. Britian should be run by British people - not foreigners.

As for the commies by another name - Labour, no thanks. The other paties are all a waste of space, time and oxygen.


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## Xzi (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I voted for Brexit, so did evey one of my friends and family and so did most of the people in the UK. Get over it


Oh lol, believe me _I'm_ over it. It's your country's economy that won't be getting over it for another decade at least. Conservatives lied about what kind of fallout it would cause, but they were counting on the fact that their base wouldn't hold them accountable for it even once that became apparent. Based on their poll numbers, clearly not everybody is as eager to remain a useful idiot as you are though.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> People have pretty much overlooked the sewage being pumped into the sea.


Where do you want it to be pumped? When you have a country with nearly 70 million people that crap and piss every day, they tend to produce lots of fecal matter.....what would you do with it?

Sure you can pump it into tanks, seperate the toilet roll and other stuff, pump air into the tanks, and have bacteria "eat" the sewage etc. That takes lots of land, workers, equipment, wages, pension funds etc..... In the real world where I live there's already sewage processing plants, but they can only handle a certain amount of sewage, when they are at full capacity  - rather than the sewage flowing onto the land, it gets pumped into the sea and the fish and bacteria etc that live in the sea - eat it!


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Based on their poll numbers, clearly not everybody is as eager to remain a useful idiot as you are though.


Yep, because polls are always non biased and 100% correct all the time.......right!

I asked 100 midgets if they preferred sitting on normal adult size chairs or ones designed for midgets - 100% chose the midget chairs.

I then asked 100 tall people the same question and 100% chose the normal chairs.

Polls are crap and only work if you ask a selection of people with different views the questions, but generally they are baised to try and put the people doing the polls narative across. Just ask anyone that watches CNN their views, and then ask people that watch Fox news the same questions and see the difference of opinions.

Where I live people regard labour as commie scum and untrustworthy, yet ask the constituants that voted for the likes of that braindead munter, Diane Abbott, what they think of the Labour party and you'll get a different point of view from where I live.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> voted for Brexit, so did evey one of my friends and family and so did most of the people in the UK. Get over it


I had no doubt, so it's your fault literal shit is pouring in the waters we drink and energy bills are sky high. I cannot wait for Shaitan to claim you.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Where I live people regard labour as commie scum and untrustworthy, yet ask the constituants that voted for the likes of that braindead munter, Diane Abbott,


Yes keep piling on Diane Abbott for one stat she got wrong trying to remember by heart. Not like, you know, David Davis, who claimed the UK after Brexit could trade with 1 Planet earth and a half. Or JRM with that nonsense about fish being "british and happy" - the same fish dying in droves because of water pollution caused by ditching EU laws. For those of you who don't know, Britain was the sick man of Europe before joining the EU, and now it is back to being the sick AND dirty man of Europe.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> we don't want to be ruled and our laws set by some unelected dictats in Europe that never grew up in our country and don't understand our people or our needs. Britian should be run by British people - not foreigners.


Can't even spell the name of the country he claims to be a patriof of. Pathetic. No wonder you were discharged with dishonour. Probably a Tommy Robinson cuck too.

And considering how shit the Tories have been for the past 12 years, it's obvious Europe understands much better than Westminster the needs of the British people.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I had no doubt, so it's your fault literal shit is pouring in the waters we drink and energy bills are sky high. I cannot wait for Shaitan to claim you.


The water you drink is 100% recycled dinosaur piss, rain, evapourated seawater etc. It's also been through a processing plant and has been chlorinated to kill bacteria and had flouride added to it.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> The water you drink is 100% recycled dinosaur piss, rain, evapurated seawater etc. It's also been through a processing plant and has been chlorinated to kill bacteria and had flouride added to it.


Yes, it has survived dinosaurs and two world wars and you lot ImBrexiles are polluting it beyond measure, a 1000 years of sewage pumped in a decade.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Yes keep piling on Diane Abbott for one stat she got wrong trying to remember by heart. Not like, you know, David Davis, who claimed the UK after Brexit could trade with 1 Planet earth and a half. Or JRM with that nonsense about fish being "british and happy" - the same fish dying in droves because of water pollution caused by ditching EU laws. For those of you who don't know, Britain was the sick man of Europe before joining the EU, and now it is back to being the sick AND dirty man of Europe.


Yep, this is one of the people that could have been at the top teir of government and have been running the country if the cons never won the last election:



We'd be bankrupt by now with the magic money tree not really existing and tax payers and actuall workers being screwed over..... Remember the last time they were in charge, when the cons took over there was a note telling them there was no money left and they had spent it all. I wouldn't trust these idots to run a tuck shop never mind a country.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> We'd be bankrupt by now with the magic money tree not really existing and tax payers and actuall workers being screwed over..... Remember the last time they were in charge, when the cons took over there was a note telling them there was no money left and they had spent it all. I wouldn't trust these idots to run a tuck shop never mind a country.


The last time they were in charge things were MUCH BETTER than now, and it was despite the economic crisis caused by the US, you cupid stunt. 

Right now country is bankrupt, money is wasted on Covid contracts and dodgy tenders in cornwall, taxpayers don't get anything of their taxes and the NHS is on collapse.

Eventually, however, even thickos like you will go extinct in England, and tories will not win again.


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## Maximumbeans (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Wasn't even his fault entirely back then, middle of financial crisis caused by the Americans!


Bleeding Yanks trying to destabilise our countreh.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> Bleeding Yanks trying to destabilise our countreh.


they ended up destabilising the whole world.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Yes, it has survived dinosaurs and two world wars and you lot ImBrexiles are polluting it beyond measure, a 1000 years of sewage pumped in a decade.


Get yourself off to India or somewhere like that and see what they do with it - they just crap in the steets and someone they manage to survive.

However you seen to have an opinion - so what would you do with the sewage and who would fund your ideas. Don't post a one line retort either, give a full practical explanation please on how you would deal with it, how much land would be needed, the amount of staff required, costs to the taxpayer, etc.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> However you seen to have an opinion - so what would you do with the sewage and who would fund your ideas. Don't post a one line retort either, give a full practical explanation please on how you would deal with it, how much land would be needed, the amount of staff required, costs to the taxpayer, etc.


Eh, no? I'll answer however I like, without indulging your idiotic sealioning, you creep who, amongst other things, wants to beat "alphabet people" up in schools.

What would I do with sewage? Why, it's quite simple. And therefore, quite difficult, like all simple, but not simplistic, things.



mrdude said:


> Get yourself off to India or somewhere like that and see what they do with it - they just crap in the steets and someone they manage to survive.


My plan in life is to thrive, not survive. I appreciate an ImBrexile like you doesn't have the cognitive power to understand the difference, probably paired with the fact you're near the end of your life.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Eh, no? I'll answer however I like, without indulging your idiotic sealioning, you creep who, amongst other things, wants to beat "alphabet people" up in schools.


Ahh so basically you just like whinging but offer no real practical solutions to anything because it's too hard for you to deal with the realty of life.  You are the type that leaves everying to everyone else to death with and you let them solve all the problems and then whine about the way they did things because you need to have something to whine about. It's OK though, the world needs people like you, after all those menial no brain jobs need people like you to do them.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Ahh so basically you just like whinging but offer no real practical solutions to anything because it's too hard for you to deal with the realty of life.  You are the type that leaves everying to everyone else to death with and you let them solve all the problems and then whine about the way they did things because you need to have something to whine about. It's OK though, the world needs people like you, after all those menial no brain jobs need people like you to do them.


LOL said the guy who (claims to have) enlisted, THE job for the brainless with not enough smarts to go to university. or to get a clerical job.

It's actually quite different: I don't want to waste energy with you, since you're obviously just taking the piss and wasting my time. More importantly, no one is paying me to devise a solution for it, so why bother? The Tories and the ImBrexiles can drown in their own sewage water for all I care, it will only make their demise faster.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> LOL said the guy who did army, THE job for the brainless with not enough smarts to go to university. or to get a clerical job.


I've done a lot of jobs in my time, and in the Army I learned a trade (Vehicle mechanic) and got the highest standard of city and guilds in it, which helped me immensly once I left the Army, and your point is what exactly?


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I've done a lot of jobs in my time, and in the Army I learned a trade (Vehicle mechanic) and got the highest standard of city and guilds in it, which helped me immensly once I left the Army, and your point it what exactly?


That a glorified mechanic really should be more careful before calling others suited for "menial no brain jobs", because that's you to a T. Or a C, in your case.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> That a glorified mechanic really should be more careful before calling others suited for "menial no brain jobs", because that's you to a T. Or a C, in your case.


As I said it's not the only job I've had. It was a good start to my working carrer though and I don't reget it at all because it has helped me immensly.

You do know that Elon Musk used to do odd jobs at farm and lumber mill before he became the richest person in the world and he went on to design some high end tech.....just saying.

For you however there is no hope, you can only sit about and whine about things with zero contributions on how to fix them. It's OK though, someone smarter will come along - fix the problems and then you can sit about some more and bitch about that as well.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> You do know that Elon Musk used to do odd jobs at farm and lumber mill before he became the richest person in the world and he went on to design some high end tech.....just saying.


He came from money, didn't exactly start as a poor boy with nothing in Iowa.


mrdude said:


> For you however there is no hope, you can only sit about and whine about things with zero contributions on how to fix them. It's OK though, someone smarter will come along - fix the problems and then you can sit about some more and bitch about that as well.


I haven't heard you mention any solutions, either, funny that. Plenty of bitching about black women tho, which checks out with your behaviour. So that means I still am more useful than you.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> will go extinct in England, and tories will not win again.


See I have heard variations on that theme for decades and reading goes back centuries (even longer if we want to do the everybody thinks they are the most enlightened time in history which is a direct feeder to that one).
At best you get a rebranding (not like the Whigs died really other than as a name). More generally while I consider all politicians subhuman scum that could not organise a piss up in a brewery I will give them that they are incredibly good at getting re-elected (incumbency rates attesting to that one).

There are some interesting ponderings of genetics too if extinct is to be a term you throw around, even more so when the aspects that are above replacement level (though I have less as pertains to the UK as most seem to look at the US for the juicy stuff). https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20121204-is-politics-really-in-our-genes

Not to mention if that did happen (and it would be 5+ decades at very best https://www.statista.com/statistics/1067740/uk-general-election-poll-by-age/ , change with age is fractional as well not to mention youth don't vote all that much, and that is not withstanding some kind of serious longevity treatment which seems reasonable at this point to expect before then) then the monoparty would almost immediately split as internal factions with different preferences, risk tolerances, philosophies (even within nominally the same there are schisms, something as much of a marriage of convenience as the labour party has... I would put the bet on it being usefully measured in hours) then vie for power as mathematically they can benefit from it to enact their will. Never mind if they drop first past the post and go for one of the for want of a better term more representative voting methods*.

*for those less familiar with such concepts this video is part of a series, quite worth watching


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## Xzi (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Yep, because polls are always non biased and 100% correct all the time.......right!


"Surely my party's reputation can't be in the toilet after our Rob Ford stunt double of a prime minister resigned in disgrace."


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I haven't heard you mention any solutions, either.


I'm not the one bitching about it though am I. You are and when you read something by someone that you disagree with you try and tar them with some sort of "ism" or "ist", which is rather pathetic, just like you are for sitting about whinging to strangers on the internet about something, which you have zero idea on how to fix or offer any solutions. Meanwhile someone else will come along and fix the problem and by that point you will still be sitting about and whinging about something else to someone else that doesn't know you but thinks you're an idiot.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I'm not the one bitching about it though am I. You are and when you read something by someone that you disagree with you try and tar them with some sort of "ism" or "ist", which is rather pathetic, just like you are for sitting about whinging to strangers on the internet about something, which you have zero idea on how to fix or offer any solutions. Meanwhile someone else will come along and fix the problem and by that point you will still be sitting about and whinging about something else to someone else that doesn't know you but thinks you're an idiot.



You're not bitching about it here, I'm sure you're bitching about it elsewhere.

Again, not my job to offer solutions and certainly not to a minus habens ImBrexile like you, who wouldn't be able to understand them anyway since you created the issue in the first place


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> At best you get a rebranding (not like the Whigs died really other than as a name). More generally while I consider all politicians subhuman scum that could not organise a piss up in a brewery I will give them that they are incredibly good at getting re-elected (incumbency rates attesting to that one).



This is why all political positions need term time limits. cumulative term time limits if we go the nuclear option.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Meanwhile someone else will come along and fix the problem and by that point you will still be sitting about and whinging about something else to someone else that doesn't know you but thinks you're an idiot.



Holler when the issue is fixed, if you're still alive, I'll be waiting. You can think I'm an idiot all you want, I know you are one so at best we're even.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Holler when the issue is fixed, if you're still alive, I'll be waiting. You can think I'm an idiot all you want, I know you are one so at best we're even.


If someone asked me to write a computer program to encapsulate your life, it would be short and look something like this:


```
void main() {
whinge(); //permanent loop
}

void whinge() {
cout << "Whinge, blah, blah, blah!";
sleep(5000); //wait 5 seconds
expected_reply();
}

void expected_reply() {
cout << "God, you really are a boring git :-( ";
cout << "Please go away!";
sleep(5000);
}
```

That probably resembles your current NPC coding.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> If someone asked me to write a computer program to encapsulate your life, it would be short and look something like this:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Literally nobody would ask you anything, and even if they did, you'd fail. Big talk calling others NPC when you're basically a bot, only slighly dumber. Go handle those big wrenches which make you feel all tingly and wrong inside.


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## subcon959 (Sep 7, 2022)

I'm in two minds about Liz. On the one hand, it seems like a good idea to freeze energy bills. On the other, instead of going to the root of the problem (the energy companies with obscene profits - why is the cap being allowed to increase 150%? over such a short time when it's obvious people are going to die over winter) she's gonna end up making regular people pay for it by borrowing £100 billion to achieve it. It seems we lose either way.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 7, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I'm in two minds about Liz. On the one hand, it seems like a good idea to freeze energy bills.


It was Labour's idea first and of pretty much anyone else.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Where do you want it to be pumped? When you have a country with nearly 70 million people that crap and piss every day, they tend to produce lots of fecal matter.....what would you do with it?


I wish it could go back to the pre brexit sewage treatment centres instead.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> I wish it could go back to the pre brexit sewage treatment centres instead.


It still goes to these treatment plants, but when these are full where are you going to put it? You can't just wish it away into the ether.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It still goes to these treatment plants, but when these are full where are you going to put it? You can't just wish it away into the ether.


Funny how brexit caused the treatment plants to be full. It's almost like leavers are making it up as they go along, to save face.

Last year the environment agency said this to the water companies.....

“You may not be able to comply with your permit if you cannot get the chemicals you use to treat the effluent you discharge because of the UK’s new relationship with the EU.”

The sewage being pumped into the sea at record numbers since brexit, is because brexit has caused the problem. The government has also been able to relax the water companies responsibility because of brexit, which removes any incentive to actually doing anything about it.

This was all predicted before the referendum, you knew you were voting for this.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> Funny how brexit caused the treatment plants to be full. It's almost like leavers are making it up as they go along, to save face.
> 
> Last year the environment agency said this to the water companies.....
> 
> ...


Don't talk rubbish - the UK has it's own chemists and can make it's own chemicals if it needs to. Also most of these water companies are foreign owned as is much of our infracstucture - you can blame consecutive govenments and politicians for selling our country out and lining their own pockets in the process. Brexit is just the start of the purge, these scummy politicians will be replaced whether they like it or not and we will reclaim our country/laws/services back from these foreigners and traitorous politicians.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Don't talk rubbish - the UK has it's own chemists and can make it's own chemicals if it needs to. Also most of these water companies are foreign owned as is much of our infracstucture - you can blame consecutive govenments and politicians for selling our country out and lining their own pockets in the process. Brexit is just the start of the purge, these scummy politicians will be replaced whether they like it or not and we will reclaim our country/laws/services back from these foreigners and traitorous politicians.


Brexit was just the elite taking away your rights. Whatever war you think you're fighting, is delusional.

They can't get the chemicals due to the supply chain disruption due to brexit, it's cheaper to dump the sewage in the sea.

This is what you voted for.


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> Brexit was just the elite taking away your rights.
> 
> It's too expensive to make the chemicals in the UK, it's cheaper to dump the sewage in the sea.
> 
> This is what you voted for.


You don't need chemicals - you just need to put it in a tank - pump air into it aggitate it, and add a culture that eats the fecal matter. That's pretty much all a sewage treatment works does. But storage tanks have a limited capacity so unless more land is acquired and more treatment plants are built by these water companies I expect it will be more of the same.


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## smf (Sep 7, 2022)

mrdude said:


> You don't need chemicals - you just need to put it in a tank - pump air into it aggitate it, and add a culture that eats the fecal matter. That's pretty much all a sewage treatment works does. But stroage tanks have a limited capacity so unless more land is acquired and more treatment plants are built by these water companies I expect it will be more of the same.


Maybe you should tell the water companies and the environment agency, as they disagree.

The storage tanks were enough before brexit, now they aren't. It seems you're delusional.

I don't often agree with Boris' dad.

https://www.nationalworld.com/news/...stanley-johnson-discharge-seas-rivers-3815345

_“We haven’t measured water quality on our beaches for three or four years now. It’s a shocking state of affairs.”_


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## mrdude (Sep 7, 2022)

smf said:


> Maybe you should tell the water companies and the environment agency, as they disagree.
> 
> The storage tanks were enough before brexit, now they aren't. It seems you're delusional.
> 
> ...


More people live here since Brexit - we have loads or illegals that have invaded our country from "war torn" French beaches. Maybe try sending them back to France so we can spend the money they are costing us on other things. There's also the strain they are putting on our resources and infrastructure - such as the extra sewage they are making.


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## subcon959 (Sep 8, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> It was Labour's idea first and of pretty much anyone else.


Yeah, people have been screaming about it since last year but Boris never did anything so she at least gets some credit. However, Labour's idea was to get the extra money from taxing the £170 billion *excess* profits the companies are due to make over the next 2 years and instead Liz is going to increase our national debt by over £100 billion to give handouts to the poor companies to compensate them for the reduced profits. Which means that working people will end up paying it back.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 8, 2022)

mrdude said:


> More people live here since Brexit - we have loads or illegals that have invaded our country from "war torn" French beaches. Maybe try sending them back to France so we can spend the money they are costing us on other things. There's also the strain they are putting on our resources and infrastructure - such as the extra sewage they are making.



EU immigrants were the only people who weren't a drain on public finances. Enjoy the extra immigration from India, Pakistan etc.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 8, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> Yeah, people have been screaming about it since last year but Boris never did anything so she at least gets some credit. However, Labour's idea was to get the extra money from taxing the £170 billion *excess* profits the companies are due to make over the next 2 years and instead Liz is going to increase our national debt by over £100 billion to give handouts to the poor companies to compensate them for the reduced profits. Which means that working people will end up paying it back.



That's Tory ImBrexile for you: cheap knockoffs paraded as quality!


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## fdyyt (Sep 10, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> In a somewhat surprising turn of events the new UK prime minister (last one outed after some fairly minor scandals actually which was impressive given what he got away with previously) and leader of conservative party is Liz Truss. Most would not have bet on her after initial rounds of candidates were put forward a few months back, and even after they got whittled down she was still somewhat lower on the odds.
> 
> Pick any news site and you can probably find a dozen articles
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62596329
> ...





smf said:


> The result was announced yesterday, but known before hand.
> 
> Liz Truss interview
> 
> ...



I admire many British inventions, the steam engine, the telephone and the world wide web.
But British tabloids are a mistake.


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## smf (Sep 10, 2022)

fdyyt said:


> I admire many British inventions, the steam engine, the telephone and the world wide web.
> But British tabloids are a mistake.


You forgot the jet engine & computer programming.


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## mrdude (Sep 10, 2022)

fdyyt said:


> I admire many British inventions, the steam engine, the telephone and the world wide web.
> But British tabloids are a mistake.


Also abolishing slavery, the industrial revolution and many, many other things!


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## fdyyt (Sep 10, 2022)

smf said:


> You forgot the jet engine & computer programming.


Without the steam engine, there probably would be no jet engine.


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## smf (Sep 10, 2022)

fdyyt said:


> Without the steam engine, there probably would be no jet engine.


The jet engine is more related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barber_(engineer) gas turbine, than the steam engine

FYI The world wide web wasn't the first hyper text system.


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## fdyyt (Sep 10, 2022)

smf said:


> The jet engine is more related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barber_(engineer) gas turbine, than the steam engine
> 
> FYI The world wide web wasn't the first hyper text system.


I know, but the steam engine laid the groundwork for rapid mass mobility.


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## smf (Sep 10, 2022)

fdyyt said:


> I know, but the steam engine laid the groundwork for rapid mass mobility.


Then the telegraph was more important than the telephone.

You seem to be applying arbitrary conditions & I'm not sure why.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 10, 2022)

Hmm... I missed this thread somehow. But then again... Seeing how nobody even mentions 'Truss' in the last three pages of this thread, i take it I've not missed much. 



FAST6191 said:


> In a somewhat surprising turn of events the new UK prime minister (last one outed after some fairly minor scandals actually which was impressive given what he got away with previously) and leader of conservative party is Liz Truss. Most would not have bet on her after initial rounds of candidates were put forward a few months back, and even after they got whittled down she was still somewhat lower on the odds.


I know it's easy to say afterward, but i can't say I'm surprised. Heck... I thought Sunak dropped out weeks ago, just not official. Last nail in his coffin was that he was taped saying how he started bringing in more money to the current neighborhood(a posh rich one) that was formerly assigned to a poor one. Because ey... The rich should get richer, right?

No, the only real surprise to me was that BoJo somehow manages to be more popular than either candidate by the people who kicked him out of office in the first place.
Like the UK politics could even become more surrealistic... 


So... Liz Truss. Former foreign minister, right? Touted quite a bit on her trade deals with Japan and Australia.
And... well...

Hey @mrdude : are those deals better than under the eu or not? I'd give my opinion, but since I'm from Belgium i apparently support unofficial dictators(1), so... What's your take on it? 


(1): of course this would never happen in the UK, as aptly demonstrated by every UK citizen being able to vote for Liz, Rishi or whomever they want...


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## mrdude (Sep 10, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Hey @mrdude : are those deals better than under the eu or not? I'd give my opinion, but since I'm from Belgium i apparently support unofficial dictators(1), so... What's your take on it?


My take is that you stick to what goes on in your country and I'll pay attention to what goes on in mine, I have no interest in what goes on in corrupt european countries or who the people in those countries vote for, that's up to them - the same as you shouldn't be bothered about us in UK.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> My take is that you stick to what goes on in your country and I'll pay attention to what goes on in mine, I have no interest in what goes on in corrupt european countries or who the people in those countries vote for, that's up to them - the same as you shouldn't be bothered about us in UK.


Translation: I've got no fucking clue. Gotcha.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Also abolishing slavery


After exploiting it like mad and abolishing it for economic reasons, not because of some sort moral imperative.


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## mrdude (Sep 11, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> After exploiting it like mad and abolishing it for economic reasons, not because of some sort moral imperative.


Your level of ignorance is astounding, it's literally  like you have never read a history book or watched a documentary. It's pointless even replying to you to be honest as you're a complete idiot that's full of hate and you come across as one of those perpetual victim mentality types. You should probably read up on the history of slavery in the last 2000 years to better educate yourself on the subject as you don't seem to have any idea about it.

You've probably never heard of the Barbary wars:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

Or white people being enslaved by North Africans & Arabs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_slavery

And you probably don't know that black people have been enslaving each other and selling each other since the begining of recorded history and still do it today in some countries. Or that even today there are an estimated 46 million slaves worldwide - although that figure is most likely higher.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> After exploiting it like mad and abolishing it for economic reasons, not because of some sort moral imperative.


I have very nice political book of what was at the time considerable renown from the late 1700s (which is to say prior to abolition) that goes through the moral reasons for ending it, echoing large tracts of the parliament of the time. Will give it a scan/photo session later as my version seems to be a later one than online with a far expanded take on the subject but https://archive.org/details/principlesofmora00gisb/page/94/mode/2up for a starter though.

The Principles of Moral Philosophy Investigated Gisborne, Thomas, in my case the 1789 version (original was 1785). For timeline 1807 for full abolition, 1792 for the gradual abolition, 1833 for the remaining colonies seeing all slaves compulsory purchased, 1772 for the sometimes misconstrued Lord Mansfield "the air of England is too pure for any slave to breathe" court ruling/pronouncement.

"fuck the French" (while ending slavery is a good plan developmentally/economically in the long run, it does rather stagnate things, then short term immediate removal can have equally deleterious effects, especially to those brought up in the system) is a solid plan in politics then and to this day and almost certainly aided matters along but to say there was no moral component is rather a stretch.


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## Flame (Sep 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I voted for Brexit, so did evey one of my friends and family and so did most of the people in the UK. Get over it - we don't want to be ruled and our laws set by some unelected dictats in Europe that never grew up in our country and don't understand our people or our needs. Britian should be run by British people - not foreigners.
> 
> As for the commies by another name - Labour, no thanks. The other paties are all a waste of space, time and oxygen.



 unelected dictats? when did we vote the house of lords members? i dont remember


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## mrdude (Sep 11, 2022)

Flame said:


> unelected dictats? when did we vote the house of lords members? i dont remember


We don't, they should be abolished.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Your level of ignorance is astounding, it's literally  like you have never read a history book or watched a documentary. It's pointless even replying to you to be honest as you're a complete idiot that's full of hate and you come across as one of those perpetual victim mentality types. You should probably read up on the history of slavery in the last 2000 years to better educate yourself on the subject as you don't seem to have any idea about it.
> 
> You've probably never heard of the Barbary wars:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars
> ...


I did, you moron. This book, which was censored for 80 years, is quite eloquent about it:

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/446668/capitalism-and-slavery-by-williams-eric/9780241548165 



mrdude said:


> And you probably don't know that black people have been enslaving each other and selling each other since the begining of recorded history and still do it today in some countries. Or that even today there are an estimated 46 million slaves worldwide - although that figure is most likely higher.


And your point is?


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## mrdude (Sep 11, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I did, you moron. This book, which was censored for 80 years, is quite eloquent about it:
> 
> https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/446668/capitalism-and-slavery-by-williams-eric/9780241548165


I suggest you read this non-fiction book, which is the personal account of a white American (survivor of slavery) sea captain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletons_on_the_Zahara

Rather than some fiction book based on someones personal feelings.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

Isn't this the person saying she wants to maximize pear production? In the UK of all places? Lmao.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Isn't this the person saying she wants to maximize pear production? In the UK of all places? Lmao.


They grow wild in the lanes and hedges around here (I usually harvest them a few weeks before most apples come in, quite like https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/chocolate-pear-crisp myself if doing a dessert, they are also quite nice when pickled), and generally thrive under the same conditions apples do which grow basically everywhere in the UK and have commercial apple orchards everywhere as well. Generally in the UK if you are offering someone a piece of fruit or fruit pie then apple or pear would not show a terribly great preference, cider is probably more popular then perry (cider made from pears) but there is still enough of that around too.

Was too lazy to see what you might be referencing (much less any greater context. I don't think they are a particular solution to a pest, disease or apple monoculture problem which is where some might go) but on the face of it then hardly the most laughable thing to come out of a politico's mouth.


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## mrdude (Sep 11, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Isn't this the person saying she wants to maximize pear production? In the UK of all places? Lmao.


She was actually talking about world trade and about imports and exports and here's the quote:



> "At the moment, we import two-thirds of all of our apples.
> 
> "We import nine-tenths of all of our pears.
> 
> ...



Maybe you should try to put things into context, rather than trying to make people look silly, because you just make yourself look silly if you don't.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Maybe you should try to put things into context, rather than trying to make people look silly, because you just make yourself look silly if you don't.


Why would I put effort into it when it makes capitalist dogs wig out anyways LMAO


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## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Why would I put effort into it when it makes capitalist dogs wig out anyways LMAO


More flies with honey.

If you want to be the freak everybody points and laughs at/clown they entertain the presence of as them soiling themselves is amusing, at least until the smell catches up, then so it goes. I would generally hope to aspire to more though. Present a balanced and reasoned argument and whether you win over your debate opponent or not is up in the air (some are too far gone, or indeed you would first have to go back to very fundamental assumptions, others might just have different risk tolerances and breakdowns for best of bad choices) but there are always those silently observing that might be swayed. Get yourself a reputation as an unreliable and unreasonable actor and you then handicap yourself to having to overcome that before your point gets contemplated, possibly even more so if wish to claim to be an exemplar or ambassador for a way of thought (or grouping if that could be said to be a relevant notion).


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> More flies with honey.
> 
> If you want to be the freak everybody points and laughs at/clown they entertain the presence of as them soiling themselves is amusing, at least until the smell catches up, then so it goes. I would generally hope to aspire to more though. Present a balanced and reasoned argument and whether you win over your debate opponent or not is up in the air (some are too far gone, or indeed you would first have to go back to very fundamental assumptions, others might just have different risk tolerances and breakdowns for best of bad choices) but there are always those silently observing that might be swayed. Get yourself a reputation as an unreliable and unreasonable actor and you then handicap yourself to having to overcome that before your point gets contemplated, possibly even more so if wish to claim to be an exemplar or ambassador for a way of thought (or grouping if that could be said to be a relevant notion).


The problem is this wall of text generously assumes I care what my opponent thinks about anything.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> The problem is this wall of text generously assumes I care what my opponent thinks about anything.


That counts as a wall of text?

You need not necessarily care what your opponent is thinking, though the better debates do care how they think*. That said if you are not trying to change their mind on something are you not almost just spamming at that point? Indeed the "wall" you just dismissed noted that there are generally assumed to be undecided observers of various leanings to a discussion and those are possibly your main audience when all is said and done. Dismiss those by playing the clueless idiot at your peril.

*from the Art of War


			
				Sun Tsu said:
			
		

> If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> That counts as a wall of text?
> 
> You need not necessarily care what your opponent is thinking, though the better debates do care how they think*. That said if you are not trying to change their mind on something are you not almost just spamming at that point? Indeed the "wall" you just dismissed noted that there are generally assumed to be undecided observers of various leanings to a discussion and those are possibly your main audience when all is said and done. Dismiss those by playing the clueless idiot at your peril.
> 
> *from the Art of War


The problem with pseudo intellectual rants like this is that they do not account for the fact that no one inherently comes to a piracy forum to have their opinions changed, and that in a modern era of radicalization, many people hold beliefs without any real evidence or logic to support them, meaning debate, despite how much braindead liberals and centrists prop it up as some holy icon, is functionally worthless. For example, holocaust deniers do not adopt their position based purely on evidence, they adopt it on aesthetics. You cannot convince someone who's identity is linked to an epistemic anti-realist position to suddenly value evidence and reason.

Or, to put it more bluntly, debate is overrated, DBL shitflinging is funnier.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

Despite you making a committent to meaningless spamming we might as well try to extract some value.



LainaGabranth said:


> the fact that no one inherently comes to a piracy forum to have their opinions changed


Are you sure about that? The pirate parties that sprung up some years ago now have some quite interesting ideas on how the world should work, ones that differ from a lot of other more mainstream offerings and are generally formed by the core audience of this place. The disaffected by the systems and unsatisfied by the basic binary choice, or entrenched and unchanging plurality in a few others. Indeed what little change the entrenched binary choice tends to see come from said outsiders and disaffected when the clueless in charge take their finger from the pulse for long enough.

As far as radicals adopting positions on aesthetics. I am sure it has happened, in internet parlance they tend to called edgelords, however looking at how cults work then embracing of those that find themselves outsiders in one way or another is the predominant one. We return then to "more flies with honey".


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Despite you making a committent (sic) to meaningless spamming we might as well try to extract some value.
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that? The pirate parties that sprung up some years ago now have some quite interesting ideas on how the world should work, ones that differ from a lot of other more mainstream offerings and are generally formed by the core audience of this place. The disaffected by the systems and unsatisfied by the basic binary choice, or entrenched and unchanging plurality in a few others. Indeed what little change the entrenched binary choice tends to see come from said outsiders and disaffected when the clueless in charge take their finger from the pulse for long enough.
> ...


So none of that actually addressed anything I said. This is why I refer to you as a pseudo intellectual. 

To start with, this is a forum that was spawned around *piracy.* People are not coming here to have their opinions changed on shit like nationalism, or the like. 99% of people who come here are here to get video games for free. The others that remain here to discuss politics and the like are a minority to the actual userbase. Sorry, but there's no deflecting from that fact. People expressing their opinions are not the same as people trying to have said opinions changed, if you ask most people here how they feel about piracy laws they'll probably give you an argument as to why, for example, games past a certain year limit should be free to download, whether or not the company keeping it around on modern systems would depend on where the individual stands on that, but generally most people here at best think laws on software preservation should be loosened a bit. The second largest group are the people who think the laws and the like are perfectly fine.

(inb4 pivot to trying to talk about software piracy laws, I do not care what you think about it)

You can look at the posts of everyone here who comes to discuss politics and there is a demonstrable difference between the rhetoric of people who value observation, and those who adopt opinions irregardless of where the facts stand on it. The second group are people you cannot change the opinions of, because debate to them is functionally worthless. This is a demonstrable fact that can't really be ignored, because it is the result of deeply rooted systemic and cultural issues in a lot of countries nowadays, not to mention the relevance of severe paranoia and schizophrenia being highly prevalent amongst people who subscribe to conspiracy theories like the Flat Earth, QAnon, and so on. These people, too, cannot be reasoned with, because reason was never necessary to hold such a position. There's no way you haven't heard sayings about these mentalities either. 

I would hope that for your posturing as an intellectual you'd be familiar with phrases like "You cannot logic someone out of a position they did not logic themselves into," for example, because it's true. If someone adopts the idea that, for example, the different "races" as we've conceptualized various traits to be equal to are deeply linked with things like intelligence and aggression, two conclusions that have never been reproduced under any levels of scientific study (outside of *literal eugenicists* creating intentionally bogus studies, such as those present in The Bell Curve, to push their agenda of eugenics, for a great video debunking it, I'd recommend Shaun's feature length video on the topic.), and yet these positions are still held by people to this day. Not by many, but enough to be problematic in discourse at large.

Debate is worthless until we fix the systemic problems that have compelled people to come to conclusions without a need for evidence. When groups like neo nazis and other fascists, such as tankies, come to moronic conclusions like "Degeneracy exists as a concept and will destroy "Western Civilization,"" or "Capitalism as a whole will corrupt and destroy society" (good luck finding out which group said either!), they do not adopt these positions on evidence or even theory, but purely on _aesthetics._ That's also why I think civility politics are overrated, because no one is going to adopt moronic positions like "Women should just be incubators" because some old white dude was "nice" about it. No, it's because these psychos spend all day posturing with inflammatory language about how we need to "purge" the "degenerates" and bring back undefined buzzwords like "Western values" and the like.


If you are looking for a sparknotes of this wall of text, it's this: Erase from your mind the idea that all people are reasonable, because they aren't. People are not coming to this forum to have their minds changed through reason, even the people LARPing as intellectuals under the hilarious moniker of "centrists" do not have their minds changed on the topic. They operate on the same nature and anti-intellectualism as these extremists here who believe unscientific claims like "soy feminizes men" or "radio waves can make you gay" and so on. If you want a prime example of debate not changing anyone's mind, look at Andrew Tate. The guy was debated by two of the biggest Twitch streamers, and you know what he did? He dug in, refused evidence, and came to the conclusion that everything he thinks is right, and anyone who disagrees is just a "soy beta cuck" or some other nonsense. He, ultimately, was deplatformed because he continued to post misinformation, with no debate changing him on the topic. These are not people who rationally hold positions, they hold it purely on emotions and aesthetics, and you should recognize that instead of trying to appease insecure people and their identity politics, you should instead recognize that until systems of power and social programs are changed and restructured to allow people to come out of these positions of raw emotion and personal insecurity, there is no universal value to debating them. We face existential threats in the form of rising fascism, climate change, vastly growing wealth disparity, and much more on the horizon that we haven't even conceptualized yet. It's better to focus on fixing them, than give a shit about what extremists think about anything, beyond recognizing their ideas as the threats to modern society that they are.


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## mrdude (Sep 11, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> So none of that actually addressed anything I said. This is why I refer to you as a pseudo intellectual.


TBH I never read any of that crap you posted as your views are nothing but worthless drivel. Still it's good to see you have now been outed as a hatefull and spitefull fragment of a human. The next time people see you whining on about your "rights" etc, just be thankful that the only reason you have those is because the British defeated the axis forces (twice), defeated the slave traders, and brought democracy to at least a 3rd of the world when we conquered it. Our ancestors colonized the USA and helped make that part of the world good, in the same way we that did with Australia and many, many other parts of the world.

Long Live the king and hopefully new PM will get on with doing a good job, just like she was doing when she got all those trade deals done after Brexit!


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> TBH I never read any of that crap you posted as your views are nothing but worthless drivel.


Not an argument!


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## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> So none of that actually addressed anything I said. This is why I refer to you as a pseudo intellectual.
> 
> To start with, this is a forum that was spawned around *piracy.* People are not coming here to have their opinions changed on shit like nationalism, or the like. 99% of people who come here are here to get video games for free. The others that remain here to discuss politics and the like are a minority to the actual userbase. Sorry, but there's no deflecting from that fact. People expressing their opinions are not the same as people trying to have said opinions changed, if you ask most people here how they feel about piracy laws they'll probably give you an argument as to why, for example, games past a certain year limit should be free to download, whether or not the company keeping it around on modern systems would depend on where the individual stands on that, but generally most people here at best think laws on software preservation should be loosened a bit. The second largest group are the people who think the laws and the like are perfectly fine.
> 
> ...


I thought most relevant things were addressed.

Still.
Piracy. Indeed. People by their very nature, or self selection if you want another term, that question things and try to go deeper and beyond that which is provided. Bloody good candidates for discussions of more abstract concepts in economics, philosophy, politics and morality, as well as considered choice rather than blind allegiance to their parents, locale or genes. Most won't, those that might wander in here/actively click on threads at least have a chance of it. Others do go in for a bit of partisan doom mongering though...

You otherwise appear to take a dimmer view of humans than I, impressive. Your justification for it is rather thin on the ground though. All people are not reasonable, most are at some level though, and to conflate the two or attribute the two is rather antithetical to the ideas.

Fascism remains a minor fringe concept, readily ignored. Wealth disparity seems like a minor thing as well, and natural course of things as science comes to the fore and selects for things here. Systemic concepts also would seem like one of those ill defined buzzwords you claim to dislike. Climate fears are similarly rather overblown for most of the world (sucks to be near the equator though), more science to sort that one.

Positions of raw emotion and personal insecurity... project much? Though if indeed it was the case then yeah Maslow's hierarchy would be in play.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> I thought most relevant things were addressed.
> 
> Still.
> Piracy. Indeed. People by their very nature, or self selection if you want another term, that question things and try to go deeper and beyond that which is provided. Bloody good candidates for discussions of more abstract concepts in economics, philosophy, politics and morality, as well as considered choice rather than blind allegiance to their parents, locale or genes. Most won't, those that might wander in here/actively click on threads at least have a chance of it. Others do go in for a bit of partisan doom mongering though...
> ...


You actually haven't responded to anything I said.

"People by their very nature, or self selection if you want another term, that question things and try to go deeper and beyond that which is provided."
Did you forget the other half of this sentence?

"Your justification for it is rather thin on the ground though. All people are not reasonable, most are at some level though, and to conflate the two or attribute the two is rather antithetical to the ideas."

And your reasoning for this is? The difference between you and I is I don't think these people have these issues by nature, but by environment. The systems they live under and have been affected by lead a lot of people to come to these awful conclusions like fascism, authoritarian communism (or, as I like to call it, fascism 2), anarcho capitalism, and so on come to them because they haven't had any real education on history and economics, they just come to conclusions based on personal feelings. The people I am calling unreasonable are objectively unreasonable as a byproduct of their environment. You're not, for example, going to convince someone like Creamu that radio waves are harmless, because for him his position is sourced in the aesthetics of rebellion and intellectualism if he genuinely holds them, or, just starting shit with people who care about misinformation if he does not genuinely hold such positions.

Take any gander into fascist circles online and you'll immediately see what I mean, with rhetoric and arguments that suggest, among other things, the "failings" of the west like inflation, wealth inequality, and crime, can be attributed to women having voting rights, interracial marriage, immigration, and so on. None of these arguments (if you could even call them that) actually *address* these issues or how they create these "problems" for society, they're based entirely on emotion, because fascists, especially neo nazis and tankies, are incredibly insecure people whose insecurities were exploited by cult-like leaders to bring them to these positions. It's actually been quite documented for a while, you can even see itself falling into US politics. Recently arrested dumbass Steve Bannon used to target isolated teenage males in video games to try to radicalize them to his positions. His words, not mine.

"Fascism remains a minor fringe concept, readily ignored."
Demonstrably untrue, if you had even the slightest understanding of US history you'd know how incredibly *close* we came to fascism taking roots in this country. If it wasn't for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor we likely would've been buddy buddy with Hitler at some point. For starters, we had a lot of eugenics and race science directly from Hitler's own curriculum taught in our schools at the time, and eugenics was starting to take hold politically. It is straight up the Holocaust and the war against the Axis that, among other things, bombed (pun not intended) Hitler's political alliances with us, among other alliances.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/16/us/eugenics-craze-america-pbs

The point to all of this? Fascism can easily take hold in any country. It doesn't matter if there are only a "fringe" number of parties becoming more fascist or more open to it (barring how delusional of a take this would be in the first place to hold, given that our previous president was a straight up fascist, hitting almost all 14 of Umberto Eco's points of fascism.), America culturally can be and always has been susceptible to it. That's kind of what happens when your nation is built on fucking white supremacy. (INB4 "centrist" whataboutism, a nation whose infrastructure is built with slavery and fought to preserve it is a nation built on and propped up by white supremacy, objectively.)

"Positions of raw emotion and personal insecurity... project much?"
I suppose if one were delusional enough you could boil down an aversion to _literal fascism_ as an "emotional position," disregarding the immoral nature of it fundamentally as a worldview, that deprives liberty and freedom from everyone while also essentializing the identities of everyone else in the world, both as "ingroup/outgroups," as well as "citizens" and "targets." Irregardless however, far right positions are insecure by nature, because they prey on the belief that people with problems with self confidence and greed are only that way because of the "degeneracy" of the world around them, and that it can be fixed by excising these scapegoat groups, be it black people, hispanic people, jews, and so on. It's why racially speaking Irish people and Italians got to play hot potato with the "white" card, because ethnic nationalism as an ideology will select who gets to be included in the raids on various marginalized people, before turning its sights on those it allied with, ultimately before crumbling on itself.

It is a _*deeply*_ stupid take to ever think that radicalization culturally is a "fringe" issue. Culture should always be examined and questioned to ensure that people don't fall to things like this, and similarly, that epistemic anti-realism is rebuked where it rears its ugly head. I don't expect you to value fighting these things, just like I don't expect you to have any real values at all. At your core, your positions are centered in the aesthetics of intellectualism, appearing like a non-partisan while espousing genuinely some of the dumbest, least informed responses to anyone with even a moderate, layman's understanding of history.

Or, to tl;dr it, you are pretty much as dumb as Creamu and people like him, you just try to mask it. Which is why, ethically speaking, the only correct (and also the most entertaining) position is just to fling shit.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 11, 2022)

You keep trying to insult me, though in this case that was a quick reply before dinner, however I think we get to twist an earlier concept


LainaGabranth said:


> The problem is this wall of text generously assumes I care what my opponent thinks about anything.


In this case there are people that I can respect, even if disagreement on a variety of positions and concepts is otherwise the case, I might take issue with receiving a barb from. You have thus far entirely failed to showcase why you might want to be such a person, and not just another doom seer with a victim complex. We have however worked up from the "joke's on them I was just pretending to be retarded" that characterised some of the earlier aspects so I will consider that positive development.

On all people not reasonable.
The usual breakdown between sociopaths, saints and followers.

The "unfinished" sentence was plenty finished. I would view most of the user base as being able to question things, see beyond that which is spoonfed them by those without their interests at heart (or at least wildly differing self interest). That was to say as such.

So something that extremely questionably (see lend lease) happened in the 40s is particularly relevant today? If you have to reach that far back to find something to ponder then I will return to the readily ignored and save for a few tasked with watching for it.

"inflation, wealth inequality, and crime, can be attributed to women having voting rights, interracial marriage, immigration,"
While there are some that dislike in the US the 14th amendment that is fringe. Joining the workforce is the usual one to ponder, along with the pill, and if you double your workforce (give or take female preference for lesser paying/demanding roles) in very short order then supply-demand does rather change matters.
Immigration can be a fun one. It does change the character of the country, sometimes for good (some idiots call it cultural appropriation, everybody else calls it exchange of ideas), sometimes for bad (it is not always the best and brightest that make their way*, and sometimes things are radically incompatible).
Interracial marriage is a fringe one but if you are concerned with the red pill/manosphere then no fault divorce laws are what is usually talked about there.

*though often times it is, which is even worse for their countries of origin on a variety of fronts (between brain drain and remittances not doing much other than creating an idle rich most of the time).

_"literal fascism" _being so readily (re)defined as things not that (though often as equally unpleasant) does rather serve to undermine a position, or at best you get to be a boy who cried wolf. Again though we appear to be making positive progress so hey maybe I was off in my weightings when I pondered playing more to the invisible audience.

I look out into the world and see one of the safest, healthiest, meritocratic, highly educated unwashed masses in human history, even if there are still some relatively minor problems within it and improvements to be made. Those crying the sky is falling, and perhaps those envious that troubles are so minor that their marks on history can never be much (some call it envy of those in years past that faced some stuff and truly moved the needle, I am not sure but it is heading in the right direction)... I think I might join you in considering it a sport.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 11, 2022)

Your wall only needs one simple rhetorical question for a response.

Are there only minor, non issues and major "sky is falling" threats in your worldview, or can systems and what they create be criticized without your cowardice to recognize problems for what they are and what they can do?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I suggest you read this non-fiction book, which is the personal account of a white American (survivor of slavery) sea captain:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletons_on_the_Zahara
> 
> Rather than some fiction book based on someones personal feelings.


Even someone as dim-witted as you should understand that simply saying "So what about X" doesn't diminish nor excuse the british slave trade.

Also, fiction book? The guy became PM of his own country and his book was censored for 80 years since people were terrified of it. I'd say he's more accomplished than some rando retracting a dead memoir. Also, he did experience firsthand slavery so again, you're (again), wrong.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Long Live the king and hopefully new PM will get on with doing a good job, just like she was doing when she got all those trade deals done after Brexit!


LOL trade deals so good they actively harm UK GDP and farmers, you're such a moron. and a traitor who hates his fellow countrymen, you get sociopathic pleasure seeing others in poverty and destitution, and drinking sewage water?


mrdude said:


> ust be thankful that the only reason you have those is because the British defeated the axis forces (twice)


Yeah no, Britain was sitting its ass while America and Russia and local resistance did the heavy lifting. Only good Britain did was deciphering the Enigma machine which was accomplished, surprise surprise, by one of those "alphabet people" you want beat up.


mrdude said:


> defeated the slave traders


You mean, defeated British slave traders? That's not called "defeat", that's just "stop". because it was financially inconvenient, that's it.


mrdude said:


> rought democracy to at least a 3rd of the world when we conquered it.


Yep, nothing says democracy like genociding at least 4 populations. All British former colonies are contemplating telling UK monarchy to F OFF now that Liz is dead. The 3rd of the world was much happier without "british democracy", an oxymoron anyway.


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## Marc_LFD (Sep 12, 2022)

Conservative? She wishes she actually was.



Truss keeping the WEF happy. And now, they have King Charles.



One awful leader was guaranteed, but two? Holy shit. The West really hates itself.


----------



## Marc_LFD (Sep 12, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> That's literally the only card left to play. Some people are so fucking desperate that they'll pull shit out like 'have people forgotten Gordon Brown?!'. The whataboutism is off the charts.


Voting for the left/right only creates an illusion of power ("democracy").

Unelected humans think they can force others to obey.


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## Marc_LFD (Sep 12, 2022)

x65943 said:


> Truss is another May, a scapegoat to run the party while public sentiment is negative - so that once it's time for a serious election, an actual Tory star can come to the forefront and attempt to win. Whereas no one expects any Tory wins any time soon.
> 
> Election is 3 years out, but Labour is ahead like mad at the moment


I just searched for "Theresa May WEF" and what a surprise, she has her own profile as well.

You'll own nothing and you'll not say a word.


----------



## Marc_LFD (Sep 12, 2022)

x65943 said:


> Nothing Starmer can do, it's not possible for anyone but a Tory to be PM until 2025
> 
> That is unless there was mass rebellion in the Tory ranks and they collapsed their own government and called for a no confidence vote (hint: that will never ever happen, they would all be de-selected at election time)
> 
> Labour is currently smashing the polls right now, so they are doing their best - people clearly favor labour at the moment. All they can do is muster a strong opposition until the next general election


Starmer's 10 pledges aren't very promising.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220117135534/https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

The U.K. is being ruled by morons.

/End


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 12, 2022)

Should violence erupt in Northern Ireland, I`m sure the international community will incessantly call for her resignation and arm the Northern Irish rebels. Hopefully Russia and China will defend Northern Irish freedom and send drones and RPG.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Should violence erupt in Northern Ireland, I`m sure the international community will incessantly call for her resignation and arm the Northern Irish rebels. Hopefully Russia and China will defend Northern Irish freedom and send drones and RPG.


Still salty Russia got its imperialist arse handed it back I see.


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## leon315 (Sep 12, 2022)

No matter who will be the UK's next PM, they'll always be US' bitch.


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## Jayro (Sep 12, 2022)

Gross, more conservative trash. Boot her out too and get a progressive in there if you want to see things change for the better.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 12, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Gross, more conservative trash. Boot her out too and get a progressive in there if you want to see things change for the better.


Various ones of those get installed at local/regional (including where it means something and it is not all national level) and national level the world over, sometimes to the point of it being their own little fiefdom (albeit a fiefdom on par with nation states), and have it that way for years on end. Same shit, different day -- they still don't understand economics, still content to line the pockets of them and their friends, still can't organise a piss up in a brewery/getting laid in a whorehouse, can't crack education (much less cost effective), still get caught with hands fumbling genitals of those they really should not, still can't make somewhere nice to live, still figure rules don't apply to them, idea of having things be fair is "aw that's cute"...


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 12, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Still salty Russia got its imperialist arse handed it back I see.


Nope. I personally think Russia should be cut in 3 parts, at least.
Also, the war is going to end with a neutral Ukraine. 
I´m salty that so many people will die for no reason. I´m sure it makes you happy.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Nope. I personally think Russia should be cut in 3 parts, at least.
> Also, the war is going to end with a neutral Ukraine.
> I´m salty that so many people will die for no reason. I´m sure it makes you happy.



In 3 parts eh? Is this more BS like your claims to be Russian, then Jewish? What is it gonna be tomorrow, Icelandic?

There is a reason these people have died and will die: Putin.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 12, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> In 3 parts eh? Is this more BS like your claims to be Russian, then Jewish? What is it gonna be tomorrow, Icelandic?


Are you saying a Jew cannot be Russian? Are you a Nazi? I´ve never been to Iceland.


Dark_Ansem said:


> There is a reason these people have died and will die: Putin.


Indeed. And many other reasons as well. By antagonizing the Russians to the extreme, the West has only rallied the Russians behind Putin. Just as the war has rallied many Ukrainians behind Zelensky, even in Eastern Ukraine.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

The WEF is pretty cool because they'll just make some dumb press release and schizos act like an enemy of mankind just announced itself LMAO.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Are you saying a Jew cannot be Russian? Are you a Nazi? I´ve never been to Iceland.
> 
> Indeed. And many other reasons as well. By antagonizing the Russians to the extreme, the West has only rallied the Russians behind Putin. Just as the war has rallied many Ukrainians behind Zelensky, even in Eastern Ukraine.



I'm saying you're full of BS and can't keep your lies consistent.

Antagonising Russians? Is this another lie of yours. No one in the west is antagonising Russians. We are antagonising putin because he is a genocidal dictator and a very sick guy.


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## mrdude (Sep 12, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Gross, more conservative trash. Boot her out too and get a progressive in there if you want to see things change for the better.


You now have progressives in the US and the county has gone downhill sharply since they took power - they will soon be booted out though as people don't like paying high gas prices, high food prices, high energy prices, shitting on your Afghan allies, corruption, weaponised law enforcement agencies, devalued your currency, etc.....

Venezuela was also a wake up call for some, a decent country that went down the tubes when progressives came into power - (they have now been booted out).

Then we have the EU and how their green agenda has people on the brink of freezing to death this winter and many people using food banks & ancient forrest being cut down for fire wood.

Progressives are a cancer in the world, much like the commies are.


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

Imagine blaming the EU and green energy for Putin's actions. You really are a Russian cuck aren't you.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 12, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I'm saying you're full of BS and can't keep your lies consistent.


How is it inconsistent that I am Jewish and from Russia?


Dark_Ansem said:


> Antagonising Russians? Is this another lie of yours. No one in the west is antagonising Russians. We are antagonising putin because he is a genocidal dictator and a very sick guy.


Excluding even Russian cats from a cat competition... (the most extreme example, there are hundreds)


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 12, 2022)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Excluding even Russian cats from a cat competition... (the most extreme example, there are hundreds)


the most *stupid example, FTFY


----------



## Xzi (Sep 29, 2022)

Shocker, things are not going well for a new PM who is trying to govern exclusively to the benefit of the wealthy.

The pound collapses as Britain's new prime minister gambles on tax cuts for the rich


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## Dark_Ansem (Sep 29, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Shocker, things are not going well for a new PM who is trying to govern exclusively to the benefit of the wealthy.
> 
> The pound collapses as Britain's new prime minister gambles on tax cuts for the rich



Hey, but the brexit benefit of removing bankers caps is there! Rich getting richer!

I think she's purposely running the UK into the ground as she knows they will lose the next election


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## Flame (Oct 18, 2022)

kills the Queen in a few days, which Queen's enemies couldn't do in 100 years. destroyed UK in a month which other nations couldn't do in a 1,000 years.


well done. Liz.


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## AmandaRose (Oct 18, 2022)




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## Marc_LFD (Oct 19, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> View attachment 332643


And Labor in? They're both rotten.

A new party is what the U.K. needs. I read people are considering leaving it because of how bad things have become.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 19, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> And Labor in? They're both rotten.


Yeah no, this is the excuse of alt-right fanboys who really think they know better.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 20, 2022)

Holy crap. It happened. 

	Post automatically merged: Oct 20, 2022



Dark_Ansem said:


> Yeah no, this is the excuse of alt-right fanboys who really think they know better.


Alt-Right? That's when I know people are out of originality. 

That pathetic side of the right hasn't been relevant since 2017ish, yet folks still use that term as if it means anything anymore.


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## linuxares (Oct 20, 2022)

The Queen left the building in time!


----------



## Localhorst86 (Oct 20, 2022)

Goes into office,
kills the queen,
refuses to elaborate,
leaves


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## Xzi (Oct 20, 2022)

LMAO and just like that she's gone.  Tories might as well just install a Mr. Potato Head as PM until the next election, what a shitshow.


----------



## duwen (Oct 20, 2022)

Personally, I'm still reeling from the news that Natasha Kaplinsky is the new President of the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification).

https://www.bbfc.co.uk/about-us/news/bbfc-announces-natasha-kaplinsky-obe-as-new-president


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## FAST6191 (Oct 20, 2022)

A reasonably impressive speedrun there.

Wonder what will go this time. Doubt they will call an election until they have to which means another leadership race. Not sure they have anybody waiting in the wings or with enough charisma to carry something if the previous one was some kind of stalling tactic/flush out.

Of the previous lot then I guess by default it will go to Mr Sunak. If I had to pick from all of them (and apparently interest in running again) then I think Kemi Badenoch impressed me most (though still politician so eh).

Boris Johnson is being floated as coming back. Don't think a few months penance would be enough there, and he was weak as you like when in before despite having it all able to be forced through on a whim if he wanted, but percentages seem quite high in polling.


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## fdyyt (Oct 20, 2022)

smf said:


> The result was announced yesterday, but known before hand.
> 
> Liz Truss interview
> 
> ...



That is why I hate tabloids.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 20, 2022)

And now she's gone.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 20, 2022)

She left?

Why nobody truss her?


----------



## Maximumbeans (Oct 20, 2022)

My mate and I were just talking about this and he raised the idea of Boris coming back and saying 'vote for me and I'll call a GE', almost to prove he could win even then. Cocky bastard probably would as well.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 20, 2022)

Color me surprised that a conservative fucked shit up so bad they have to resign.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 20, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> My mate and I were just talking about this and he raised the idea of Boris coming back and saying 'vote for me and I'll call a GE', almost to prove he could win even then. Cocky bastard probably would as well.


----------



## trepp0 (Oct 20, 2022)

That was fast…


----------



## Delerious (Oct 20, 2022)

No surprise. She already said she would be ready to launch nukes in retaliation with no hesitation, and her tax policies were just more cuts for the super wealthy. The only thing impressive about her is how fast she left office.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 20, 2022)

Delerious said:


> View attachment 332873
> 
> No surprise. She already said she would be ready to launch nukes in retaliation with no hesitation, and her tax policies were just more cuts for the super wealthy. The only thing impressive about her is how fast she left office.


To be fair, she was setup to fail from the get-go.  All she did was adhere to her party's playbook, it's simply a totally worthless and detrimental playbook, especially given where the UK's economy is sitting currently.  Her other option was to adopt policies more closely representing those of Labour, which would've pleased everybody else but angered her own party.  And then there surely would've been calls to oust her from within anyway.  A lose-lose scenario in every sense, and I don't see her successor faring any better in the run up to the election.


----------



## Delerious (Oct 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> To be fair, she was setup to fail from the get-go.  All she did was adhere to her party's playbook, it's simply a totally worthless and detrimental playbook, especially given where the UK's economy is sitting currently.  Her other option was to adopt policies more closely representing those of Labour, which would've pleased everybody else but angered her own party.  And then there surely would've been calls to oust her from within anyway.  A lose-lose scenario in every sense, and I don't see her successor faring any better in the run up to the election.



True. It's pretty much how politics are these days in much of the western world. Loyalty to the party and all that junk forces you to play by their rules if you want their support.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Oct 20, 2022)

SG854 said:


> She left?
> 
> Why nobody truss in her?


Thrust or trust?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 20, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> My mate and I were just talking about this and he raised the idea of Boris coming back and saying 'vote for me and I'll call a GE', almost to prove he could win even then. Cocky bastard probably would as well.



His approval is at -36 FYI. And I'm sure if the tories put him back as PM he'd just backstab them all, and would likely lose his seat.


----------



## lokomelo (Oct 20, 2022)

Nothing will change, as the ruling party keeps the power, unless I'm misinformed. The newspaper here is telling that there is no obligation of new elections, and the craziest part is that the current leading party chooses when election will take place. So why on earth they will call an election when their popularity is low?


----------



## Maximumbeans (Oct 20, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> His approval is at -36 FYI. And I'm sure if the tories put him back as PM he'd just backstab them all, and would likely lose his seat.


I'm aware, and yet I don't doubt he could scrape up the necessary 100 votes from MPs to get himself in the running. We'll see.


----------



## ILuvGames (Oct 20, 2022)

Please don't let it be Sunak who takes her place.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 20, 2022)

Xzi said:


> To be fair, she was setup to fail from the get-go.  All she did was adhere to her party's playbook, it's simply a totally worthless and detrimental playbook, especially given where the UK's economy is sitting currently.  Her other option was to adopt policies more closely representing those of Labour, which would've pleased everybody else but angered her own party.  And then there surely would've been calls to oust her from within anyway.  A lose-lose scenario in every sense, and I don't see her successor faring any better in the run up to the election.


Are Labour's policies any better? Watching the hilarity that was the conference and their understanding of economics was no better, and has not been over the last few years either (more spending than even the profligate spending of the supposedly tory party being called for at every turn and it would be a hard line for them to walk if they aimed to cut benefits and public works spending given they are nominally all about it). I suppose we then have to ponder what power the prime minister has (I don't know if it is as much of a sock puppet affair as the US president but it is hardly dictator levels either).


lokomelo said:


> Nothing will change, as the ruling party keeps the power, unless I'm misinformed. The newspaper here is telling that there is no obligation of new elections, and the craziest part is that the current leading party chooses when election will take place. So why on earth they will call an election when their popularity is low?


In elections in the UK you technically elect the party rather than the leader of it, though most would not make much distinction (it is the prime minister that is on all the national coverage and most would not be able to name their local MP). Elections these days are on a fixed cycle but it is possible to table a bill that runs something like "not withstanding the fixed term thing then we are having an election" which is what happened last time.
Though yes calling another election outside of the fixed cycle is likely to be a silly plan so they will have to ride out the clock and hope they can get the numbers up in the meantime.


----------



## RustInPeace (Oct 20, 2022)

Credit: https://imgur.com/gallery/5WP4MOP


----------



## smf (Oct 21, 2022)

Maximumbeans said:


> My mate and I were just talking about this and he raised the idea of Boris coming back and saying 'vote for me and I'll call a GE', almost to prove he could win even then. Cocky bastard probably would as well.


That would be ideal, the conservatives could be out by xmas.



Xzi said:


> To be fair, she was setup to fail from the get-go.  All she did was adhere to her party's playbook,


Not really, Trussenomics was entirely new. Previous conservative prime ministers grew the economy before talking about tax cuts.



lokomelo said:


> Nothing will change, as the ruling party keeps the power, unless I'm misinformed. The newspaper here is telling that there is no obligation of new elections, and the craziest part is that the current leading party chooses when election will take place. So why on earth they will call an election when their popularity is low?


That is true, although Boris managed to con Corbyn into an election back in 2019. By calling him a chicken. I'd like to see the same in reverse.

However conservatives aren't entirely in the clear, they have to be able to form a stable government and it's unclear they can. Recent events kinda prove that they can't.



FAST6191 said:


> Are Labour's policies any better?


They are better than the "Let's try this, whoops, soz your mortgage is now unaffordable but we had to take the chance to give our rich friends money".

Next Friday we will have a new prime minister, the following Monday the chancellor is going to reveal just how bad Liz Truss fucked the UK economy and how much they are going to have to raise taxes and cut public spending. Which the new prime minister will have to be along for the ride, it's plainly not going to work.

The conservative party is so fractured that you either have a general election now and get labour in. Or we wait 18 months before labour get in, with 18 months where companies are unwilling to invest because they have no confidence in the conservative government.

There is an argument among Labour supporters that actually they should wait for the conservatives to further fuck the economy, rather than getting into power when actually nobody knows what the state of the economy is (because Liz & Kwasi refused to let the OBR do any analysis prior to crashing the economy).

It's actually in conservative interest to call a general election now as they have no hope of winning another election, no matter what they do.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 21, 2022)

smf said:


> That would be ideal, the conservatives could be out by xmas.
> 
> 
> Not really, Trussenomics was entirely new. Previous conservative prime ministers grew the economy before talking about tax cuts.
> ...


Numbers are already known. Don't need officials (which lie all the time anyway as it is in their vested interest -- see also the inflation rate vs real rates) to tell us that one, it gets a bit hazier a few years out when variable rates are set to kick in.

Equally is labour sufficiently rehabilitated or is this trading bad for less bad? They have not quite shed the stink of Corbyn just yet, though plenty in the party still love him so claims of fractured go all ways (take a loss, spend a cycle rooting out the unpleasants and rehabilitating yourself before coming back stronger is the plan suggested by so many all over the shop, instead plaster on a shotgun wound and try to go back out there seems to be the order of the day), neither of which is aided by Starmer barely holding it together (which to be fair is better than I expected) and the red wall shows little signs of being rebuilt, neither does their Scottish wing.
Likewise at no point during everything from austerity Britain to kung flu gimmes did we see labour saying anything that would, and again watching the conference it seems plenty go in for the idea that handouts and make work jobs are particularly useful.

18 months is probably not going to be invested in (give or take fossil fuels suppliers, certain foods, maybe healthcare and those making rockets to fling at a proxy war with the Russians) either way -- the world economy is pretty much fucked wherever you go at this point (regardless of the colour tie he what theoretically is in charge is wearing) and everything is so short term that... yeah.


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 21, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Don't need officials (which lie all the time anyway as it is in their vested interest


So who exactly who do you trust?


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> So who exactly who do you trust?


Trust is earned, and can be lost (harder to earn back if you do that, even more so if maliciously rather than incompetence). You can also have to do your own analysis to tease things out.

Those that are impartial are best but they can be harder to find so you also get to do analysis of motives, incentives (incentives make for outcomes so very often) and interests on top of things. Equally incentives can include those that I would not normally trust, or trust in other scenarios, as it is in their best interest to tell the truth -- the old legal adage of "When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side, pound the table" working in politics as well so getting your facts on point and unimpeachable such that they have to try the other two becomes a tacit admission in at least western societies (communist where everybody lies about everything, albeit with very good incentives to do so, and the idea of face in Asia can make things a bit more fun there).

I like numbers (especially things that can be backtested and thus used as predictive models) but always be wary of who is making them and grouping them for you, I like revealed preferences (people can say a lot but actions louder than words), I like secondary indicators* that most lying are less inclined (or in the case the all too common incompetence then unable) to consider (for inflation, assuming we care about prices rather than money supply for this one, then producer price index and energy costs would be a leading indicator and not one those creating consumer price indexes, which are super selective, care for).
I also find most people have domains of interest and knowledge that are rather specific to them, even more so in combination with other things. Worthiness of a general source can then come from how those that would not necessarily know those fields plays out.

*the various investment firms buying in satellite photos to count cars in the car park as a predictor of shopper count. One example of that sort of thing.

Can be more difficult than simply accepting whatever the news might say or government drones (elected and otherwise) might say.

This all rolls into my general thesis on such things in that everybody is self interested, possibly even sociopathic on occasion**, cunt that works to said own interest with as much foresight as the maths provides (quarterly or annual in business, next election in politics) and as much insight as can be expected (given the complexity of the world then that is not all that much, makes my fondness for numbers occasionally a bit harder to justify, though that is the reason for diversification of your portfolio and cycling things out before they get too tainted). Play to that and assume people are going to fuck it up before too terribly long, usually by overextending themselves with short term goals at the cost of long term, and not much will surprise you and your predictions will not be far wrong.

**sociopaths can work in politics and business (cold risk assessment and no personal loyalty is good stuff to have, though can come with a downside when predicting psychology of the masses), as can "normal" people/followers, the so called saints that make up the other percentage of that aspect of psychology can not thrive in the slightest in such scenarios and get ground down and out. Leave them to play medic, certain charities (though even those mostly go from above), your nice maintenance men that keep your expenses down a bit by going above and beyond, possibly teachers (though lots of questions there too, not to mention most of that falls from on high anyway) and such like.


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## subcon959 (Oct 21, 2022)

Wild conspiracy time: This was all planned to try to get Boris in through the back door.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 21, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Trust is earned, and can be lost (harder to earn back if you do that, even more so if maliciously rather than incompetence). You can also have to do your own analysis to tease things out.
> 
> Those that are impartial are best but they can be harder to find so you also get to do analysis of motives, incentives (incentives make for outcomes so very often) and interests on top of things. Equally incentives can include those that I would not normally trust, or trust in other scenarios, as it is in their best interest to tell the truth -- the old legal adage of "When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side, pound the table" working in politics as well so getting your facts on point and unimpeachable such that they have to try the other two becomes a tacit admission in at least western societies (communist where everybody lies about everything, albeit with very good incentives to do so, and the idea of face in Asia can make things a bit more fun there).
> 
> ...


That's a lot of words and interesting points, but you haven't really answered.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> That's a lot of words and interesting points, but you haven't really answered.


You were aiming more for "here is a list of youtube/bitchute/odysee/rumble/whatever channels, reporters, newspapers, twitter accounts, company reports (consumer credit levels, default rates, adobe price index...)" type deal?

Ignoring the situational stuff (most times I don't trust politicos as far as I can throw them but occasionally those present but not in majority for their colour of tie have every incentive to showcase the reasonable range for numbers rather than the cooked ones of whoever is in power) and contextual stuff (don't much care what a favourite film reviewer thinks about Indonesian politics, do care if the latest action film I was thinking about seeing down the line some time is shot well, similar exist for everything else) then I have things I like to follow for finance (for as long as the top down myth persists then inextricably tied to politics), events, legal analysis of various things (bonus of an adversarial legal system is you kind of have to think how your competent opponent will try to play it, dodge it or otherwise so even if you have a preferred outcome then no great deal.
I do generally prefer things that look for the rub/con, for unusual activities related to things, what is not being said, what is not being covered, try to predict other second and third order effects, try to see where the lies* and/or stupidity might be in play. Even then comparisons between things, between what I know and what my analysis would tell me is still in play.

*sometimes outright, sometimes to avoid a self fulfilling narrative; some talking head says sky is falling and the sky might well fall thanks to mass panic where pretending all is tolerable might dodge something, or at least have the plebs ground to dust in 6 months when it actually would rather than said plebs maybe being able to cover their arses than have to vote for whoever promises the best handouts.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 21, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> So who exactly who do you trust?


Did you expect an answer from someone so performative?


----------



## Dark_Ansem (Oct 21, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> I do generally prefer things that look for the rub/con,


pardon?


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 21, 2022)

Thought it was a fairly common phrase (perhaps more commonly seen in the phrase "and there's the rub") but might be an older one nowadays.

It means I like those that look for hidden motives (who and whose friends get paid, power, enemies get stymied...), those that look for cons (as in confidence tricks, though downsides is also good), those that look for odd riders if there are any (that is more of a US thing but not unknown outside it) and so forth, in addition to the second and third order effects, "physics say no" and all the other stuff mentioned.


LainaGabranth said:


> Did you expect an answer from someone so performative?


While you seem to be terminally unhappy with everything and generally have it as a stated goal to be disruptive (me probably knowing better than to feed the troll) I would maintain I did answer. Don't see a particular value in grabbing my list of bookmarks in this instance, not least of all because I would then have to also detail the place they have in the analysis which is mostly all in my head (we are probably a decade or more of some kind of sensible automated analysis) and tedious to type out.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Oct 21, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> While you seem to be terminally unhappy with everything and generally have it as a stated goal to be disruptive (me probably knowing better than to feed the troll) I would maintain I did answer. Don't see a particular value in grabbing my list of bookmarks in this instance, not least of all because I would then have to also detail the place they have in the analysis which is mostly all in my head (we are probably a decade or more of some kind of sensible automated analysis) and tedious to type out.


So, your not gonna try to feed her, the troll?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> While you seem to be terminally unhappy with everything and generally have it as a stated goal to be disruptive (me probably knowing better than to feed the troll) I would maintain I did answer. Don't see a particular value in grabbing my list of bookmarks in this instance, not least of all because I would then have to also detail the place they have in the analysis which is mostly all in my head (we are probably a decade or more of some kind of sensible automated analysis) and tedious to type out.


The guy literally just asked for who you trusted as sources and like clockwork you just shit out a low effort word salad reply that has no relevance to anything he said. I know your appearances of intellectualism are way more important to you than actually believing something but the only people impressed by this performance are fellow goldwater republicans.


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## SG854 (Oct 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> The guy literally just asked for who you trusted as sources and like clockwork you just shit out a low effort word salad reply that has no relevance to anything he said. I know your appearances of intellectualism are way more important to you than actually believing something but the only people impressed by this performance are fellow goldwater republicans.


That's Fast6191 the man of many words. He has the gift of making things that can be answered in 1 sentence into many. He is your best friend when you need to write a book report and have a certain number number of pages you need to fulfill.


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## Xzi (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Are Labour's policies any better?


Obviously, yes.  It's the UK's working class that needs a boost right now, not the already-rich who profited massively from both the pandemic and the disastrous Brexit.  Any spending done in the name of the former can only be beneficial to the economy at this point in time, whereas any spending done for the latter is going to disappear into a black hole of offshore tax havens.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 22, 2022)

SG854 said:


> That's Fast6191 the man of many words. He has the gift of making things that can be answered in 1 sentence into many. He is your best friend when you need to write a book report and have a certain number number of pages you need to fulfill.


Yep. Glad i'm not the only one seeing it.


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## SG854 (Oct 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Yep. Glad i'm not the only one seeing it.


It's pretty much known around here about fast's really long posts. I use to joke about it a few years ago. He is a modern Shakespeare


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## FAST6191 (Oct 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Obviously, yes.  It's the UK's working class that needs a boost right now, not the already-rich who profited massively from both the pandemic and the disastrous Brexit.  Any spending done in the name of the former can only be beneficial to the economy at this point in time, whereas any spending done for the latter is going to disappear into a black hole of offshore tax havens.


You have a greater faith, unjustified from where I sit, in labour than I do.


LainaGabranth said:


> The guy literally just asked for who you trusted as sources and like clockwork you just shit out a low effort word salad reply that has no relevance to anything he said. I know your appearances of intellectualism are way more important to you than actually believing something but the only people impressed by this performance are fellow goldwater republicans.


It is a complex answer which is why the response was given. Equally continue to throw around insults, one day you might hit the mark even if only by accident.

It is not like a list of my favourite games, favourite engineering/woodwork/repair channels, game/film/TV reviews, sources of news on homebrew games that a simple list can be made.

I will watch anything and everything, indeed generally suggest it lest you accidentally wind up in an echo chamber. If I need some basic bitch news then despite them being massively agenda driven in their stories, hiring, firing and more, and also what they don't cover, as well as being wrong on so many occasions, I do go on the BBC from time to time, and then spin off into something that might get closer to the reality. Most newspapers being run by ideologues and owned by rich people with their own agenda, to say nothing of the modern trend for the opinion piece and news as entertainment, are similarly troubled, but you can get useful information buried within. There are some interesting meta analysis services and "fact checkers" but you also get the who watches the watchmen problem, and ever constant problem of framing.
If you are going to follow news I figure you get to be the equivalent of a historian but in the modern day and events within that timeframe. Sources generally contain some measure of validity, and even works of fiction if accepted can be the basis of further action. It is a tiring effort but pending some kind of supercomputer that can pipe feeds of a billion things of all angles (massively dystopian as that would be) it is the only way to roll.

Though I will go with the following as an ender


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## Xzi (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> You have a greater faith, unjustified from where I sit, in labour than I do.


As does the majority of the country currently, according to recent polling.  We all know what the definition of insanity is, right?  The Tories clearly aren't willing to try anything new regardless of who they elect as scapegoat, so most people know better than to expect any change in the results their policies produce.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Thought it was a fairly common phrase (perhaps more commonly seen in the phrase "and there's the rub") but might be an older one nowadays.
> 
> It means I like those that look for hidden motives (who and whose friends get paid, power, enemies get stymied...), those that look for cons (as in confidence tricks, though downsides is also good), those that look for odd riders if there are any (that is more of a US thing but not unknown outside it) and so forth, in addition to the second and third order effects, "physics say no" and all the other stuff mentioned.



It definitely isn't as new as you think as I googled it and it didn't help! But this does.


FAST6191 said:


> Though I will go with the following as an ender



Hard to take him seriously. Politics and party are, or rather were, noble concepts, constantly humiliated in contemporary times by not only the fact they have become a career, as opposed to being a service, but also because literally ANYONE feels entitled to a "spot in the sun". The fall in quality of politics means that people have fallen in quality. This "everyone is the same" nonsense is a lazy excuse of people, like him, who are privileged enough to be able to log off from reality.


	Post automatically merged: Oct 22, 2022



FAST6191 said:


> I will watch anything and everything, indeed generally suggest it lest you accidentally wind up in an echo chamber. If I need some basic bitch news then despite them being massively agenda driven in their stories, hiring, firing and more, and also what they don't cover, as well as being wrong on so many occasions, I do go on the BBC from time to time, and then spin off into something that might get closer to the reality. Most newspapers being run by ideologues and owned by rich people with their own agenda, to say nothing of the modern trend for the opinion piece and news as entertainment, are similarly troubled, but you can get useful information buried within. There are some interesting meta analysis services and "fact checkers" but you also get the who watches the watchmen problem, and ever constant problem of framing.
> If you are going to follow news I figure you get to be the equivalent of a historian but in the modern day and events within that timeframe. Sources generally contain some measure of validity, and even works of fiction if accepted can be the basis of further action. It is a tiring effort but pending some kind of supercomputer that can pipe feeds of a billion things of all angles (massively dystopian as that would be) it is the only way to roll.



Exactly how much spare time do you have, to watch everything and everyone? There's more news people and pundits than diseases these days.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 22, 2022)

Xzi said:


> As does the majority of the country currently, according to recent polling.  We all know what the definition of insanity is, right?  The Tories clearly aren't willing to try anything new regardless of who they elect as scapegoat, so most people know better than to expect any change in the results their policies produce.



Presuming labour gets in (now or 18 months matters little) then that would seem like the basis to have a little wager to see if in 5 years that the UK is a shining beacon to all, ready to kick off empire round 2 (or maybe 3 depending upon how you want to view French holdings 1000 years ago).

I just don't see it though. They have had power before, not much useful happened, they have had local power with serious resources in many places before, still nothing. All the excesses and stupidity of the Tories then Labour wanted to go in on more (more spending, more debt, harder lockdowns, harsher restrictions, more to the Ukraine) so far from the paragons of fiscal responsibility.
Same all over the world, and indeed within the UK (SNP is basically labour, has a mandate, has a lot of power (about the only thing they can't do is start wars) and money to do a lot of things, Scotland is still a shithole, Wales is much the same as well except with a nasty authoritarian streak). Beyond that the baseline conditions for anything are not really there -- still going to be a country full of people that demand the good life on barely any skills (nobody going to accept Vietnam/Bangladesh like conditions so companies will still go to Vietnam/Bangladesh to get stuff built, assuming automation has not popped by that point), still going to have no land to do much with courtesy of people that worry about knocking down a 50 year old tree, still going to have a massively ageing and possibly shrinking population that needs all the care (generally and because of poor lifestyle choices, the degree of fat cunt has not quite hit US levels but it is up there, to say nothing of saving no money), still going to be short of housing, still going to be importing food, probably still going to be importing energy (doubt they will spin up nuclear plants* in time, though maybe they would be notably on their way), probably still going be adrift in the world (CANZUK is a pipe dream and the EU would expect prostrated and bent over a barrel to be let back in to enjoy the English speaking financial hub pipeline to the EU status again which would be a really hard sell, and if you care about the working class as you claim then that did nothing but shuffle what remained of it out of inner London anyway and what little tax they did not avoid might have given a few pennies), infrastructure is not as bad as the US but not good by any means (never mind if a little solar flare happens)...

*that is assuming they purge the filthy hippies wing that opposes such things which would be a shocker.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> I just don't see it though. They have had power before, not much useful happened,


And yet living conditions were incomparably better compared to now. GPs in 48 hours? I got a visit planned A YEAR from now.


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## Xzi (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Presuming labour gets in (now or 18 months matters little) then that would seem like the basis to have a little wager to see if in 5 years that the UK is a shining beacon to all, ready to kick off empire round 2 (or maybe 3 depending upon how you want to view French holdings 1000 years ago).


Brexit is a done deal, and a shitty one at that, so the "empire" is never gonna be quite as prosperous as it could've been otherwise.  At the very least, Labour's focus seems to be on recovering from that blunder as best they can, rather than just digging the hole even deeper into dystopian oligarchy.



FAST6191 said:


> Same all over the world, and indeed within the UK (SNP is basically labour, has a mandate, has a lot of power (about the only thing they can't do is start wars) and money to do a lot of things, Scotland is still a shithole, Wales is much the same as well except with a nasty authoritarian streak). Beyond that the baseline conditions for anything are not really there -- still going to be a country full of people that demand the good life on barely any skills (nobody going to accept Vietnam/Bangladesh like conditions so companies will still go to Vietnam/Bangladesh to get stuff built, assuming automation has not popped by that point), still going to have no land to do much with courtesy of people that worry about knocking down a 50 year old tree, still going to have a massively ageing and possibly shrinking population that needs all the care (generally and because of poor lifestyle choices, the degree of fat cunt has not quite hit US levels but it is up there, to say nothing of saving no money), still going to be short of housing, still going to be importing food, probably still going to be importing energy (doubt they will spin up nuclear plants* in time, though maybe they would be notably on their way), probably still going be adrift in the world (CANZUK is a pipe dream and the EU would expect prostrated and bent over a barrel to be let back in to enjoy the English speaking financial hub pipeline to the EU status again which would be a really hard sell, and if you care about the working class as you claim then that did nothing but shuffle what remained of it out of inner London anyway and what little tax they did not avoid might have given a few pennies), infrastructure is not as bad as the US but not good by any means (never mind if a little solar flare happens)...


Hoo boy, "our entire working population are a bunch of fat, lazy, useless cunts who deserve nothing but the ruling class' sewage runoff funneled into their mouths" is a helluva campaign slogan.  I can't possibly imagine why it isn't helping to improve conservatives' poll numbers.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 22, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> And yet living conditions were incomparably better compared to now. GPs in 48 hours? I got a visit planned A YEAR from now.


People were still complaining of healthcare postcode lottery back then as well
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/nov/09/NHS (this being several years after their landslide victory).

I would also question what this year out thing is. Certainly I have seen some questionable things, and people opting to pay rather than wait for stuff I would consider essential to life and happiness, but year out for something serious is a bit radical. If it is a largely ceremonial follow up, pointless screening (are you a male under 50 with no relevant family history? No real point in going to get screened for anything but they do have to offer the service) then pushed to clear a backlog seems more useful.

Healthcare is a tricky one -- between said ageing population of fat cunts, science advancing into evermore expensive areas (good stuff in terms of results but it does catch you on the other side when it comes to space, raw material costs and specialist operators), healthcare being gross (ew sick people, it is not just theoretical lack of pay that sees medics lacking. Doubt you could even import enough and that is not considering that the usual sources are on the up and up which makes that less attractive, and what is not is likely to face competition from everywhere else too -- when in the US last the amount of Nigerian, Indian, Ghanian and Philippines healthcare workers I saw was like the UK 20 years earlier as someone figured out they have some good people there*) then I am not sure how to solve it in a way that is not going to make this last fiscal disaster look like fumbling some change down a drain. There is some red tape that could be cleared out but much of that would amount to union busting (you mentioned GPs and while the GP federation is one of the few union like structures that are doing something useful they are also in the way of a lot), standards drop and/or risk increase (hard sell for Labour if they want to bill themselves as the huggy feely party). Hopefully someone cures ageing.

*for those not as familiar with the field then between various empire related fun and games it has left most of those countries rocking (and maintaining) at least the training standards (though not necessarily the gear) of the UK and an affinity for English such that they can drop in as is. The US seemingly having picked up on that, as have several other places. The empire being historical enough now that any admiration for the baseline country is something their grandparents might have had (there is a reason the Indian nouveau riche at least bought failed formerly prestigious UK companies when they conned their way into a few million) and instead it is pay and conditions you go for.


Xzi said:


> Hoo boy, "our entire working population are a bunch of fat, lazy, useless cunts who deserve nothing but the ruling class' sewage runoff funneled into their mouths" is a helluva campaign slogan.  I can't possibly imagine why it isn't helping to improve conservatives' poll numbers.


That is your phrasing, not mine.


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## Xzi (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> That is your phrasing, not mine.


Sure, but it's hardly a stretch.  I took three out of four adjectives straight from your post.  Suffice it to say "our population isn't willing to submit to slave labor" is not a good excuse for why your economy needs to cater exclusively to the rich at a time when there are multiple global economic stressors in play already.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 22, 2022)

Never said it should cater to the rich (indeed the almost pure service economy model that the UK has gone in for over decades at this point is not a good one at all from where I sit -- service + high end manufacturing is where it is at, see stuff like Switzerland and Lichtenstein, and indeed what little manufacturing remains in the UK is that and things too expensive to internationally ship for the bulk -- dog food and bog roll sort of thing). The original premise was that Labour getting in are no more going to turn it into a land of sunshine (granted that would be bad for most natives) and rainbows, or at least tolerable mediocrity than the conservatives have in the last however many years they have nominally had the reigns. Can be useful if corruption levels get too high to have a little switch up (bit more civilised than the blood of tyrants), but it is not like the would be opposition have not spent years taking handouts, kissing babies, sucking off all the right people and engaging in some otherwise Machiavellian shit to be in the top spot ready to be the challenger at that point (and Labour has plenty of that, see those ever fun leaked text messages a while back wherein some faction was complaining about the Trots*. Granted if Labour was composed of those then I don't think I would bother to register to vote, much less actually do it, but they would at least be something I could take seriously as maybe being able to leave a mark.).

There is not a glut of skilled people sitting around out there**, and neuroplasticity/lack thereof*** means what is out there either gets the gas chamber, supported for life or some kind of lost generation (still expensive, though not as expensive), even if someone would unarse the land and risk the sacred breeding ground of some disgusting newt to build a factory. Equally while natural resources are a poison chalice a lot of the time there are vanishingly few of those either. Protectionist tariffs don't work long term either so no chance of some mid/low skill factory existing because of that.

*if having to explain jokes then short for Leon Trotsky (a fairly noted Russian communist, if you had to read animal farm in school like many in the UK would have then it is a reasonably common reference, or perhaps you are more a fan of the stranglers) but trots is also slang for the shits (as I don't know what I ate last night but it gave me the trots).

**I deal with and speak to many more engineering related companies and tradesmen. They are crying out for people (sometimes literally in the case of the 60 something tradesmen having to spend a day on their knees because there are no young types to fob the otherwise simple job off on) and were prepared to offer quite considerable wages (as in single person could almost afford a decent house money). In some cases it is reap what they sow having shuttered apprentice paths some years prior (though that was also in response to other policies, some of which did come from Labour) but not all. Numbers of various schools, sales of various tools and whatever else also serving to back that one up too.

***even without delving into the murkier waters of what people are capable of what (some even otherwise not disabled people might as well be for many purposes in much of the modern world -- the blank slate is a horrible myth) then some really are not suited to sitting at a desk and if that becomes one of the predominant options to get ahead in life you are going to suffer.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 22, 2022)

lolbertarians gonna lolbert


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## sombrerosonic (Oct 22, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> lolbertarians gonna lolbert


I understand little to nothing you just said


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## Taleweaver (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> You have a greater faith, unjustified from where I sit, in labour than I do.


Latest poll I've heard, labor had a 30 point lead (!) over the Tories. I'm not sure where you're sitting, but you're not representing the average UK citizen here.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 22, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Latest poll I've heard, labor had a 30 point lead (!) over the Tories. I'm not sure where you're sitting, but you're not representing the average UK citizen here.


Lead in voting does not mean results forthcoming. Plenty of people got in on a high margin and then fuck all of any great interest happened other than them treading water, indeed it is pretty much the default and mathematically is almost ensured to be so (inertia is a defining factor of modern western political systems really).


sombrerosonic said:


> I understand little to nothing you just said


Libertarians are the third major political way, usually focused around minimal government as a key issue/defining factor. Not much of a presence in any UK politics compared to the US where it is a fairly notable effort (indeed some accuse them of doing a spoiler effect in some presidential elections), though there is a Scottish take these days I suppose.
Lolbertarians is then a spinoff of that, portmanteau of sorts with the whole LOL/laughing out loud and is usually characterised as libertarians but take it way less seriously (and if you ever met the proverbial teenage/just discovered libertarianism you would be begging to go back to the just discovered communism idiots instead).
Not particularly how I roll either; quite like government funded science among other things.


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## sombrerosonic (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Libertarians are the third major political way, usually focused around minimal government as a key issue/defining factor. Not much of a presence in any UK politics compared to the US where it is a fairly notable effort (indeed some accuse them of doing a spoiler effect in some presidential elections), though there is a Scottish take these days I suppose.
> Lolbertarians is then a spinoff of that, portmanteau of sorts with the whole LOL/laughing out loud and is usually characterised as libertarians but take it way less seriously (and if you ever met the proverbial teenage/just discovered libertarianism you would be begging to go back to the just discovered communism idiots instead).
> Not particularly how I roll either; quite like government funded science among other things.


I guess @LainaGabranth Dislikes them as well as republicans


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 22, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> I guess @LainaGabranth Dislikes them as well as republicans


Libertarians in America don't actually believe in anything besides aesthetics. There's a reason why the party candidates are all just completely psychotic. Listen to any LP debate in the US and you'll instantly see what I mean. You got people saying they wanna get rid of roads and give people jetpacks, get rid of drivers licenses, and other insane shit. It's a pseudo intellectual's political ideology.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 22, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Healthcare is a tricky one -- between said ageing population of fat cunts


You certainly have a way with words!


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## Taleweaver (Oct 23, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Lead in voting does not mean results forthcoming. Plenty of people got in on a high margin and then fuck all of any great interest happened other than them treading water, indeed it is pretty much the default and mathematically is almost ensured to be so (inertia is a defining factor of modern western political systems really).


That might have been a thing of the lead was in the single digits. This kind of digits that even long term voters would rather have someone else in charge. And you can't blame them: it's kind of hard to maintain an illusion of democracy if you're just swapping a petty crook with someone with an agenda that doesn't even pretend to care about the general public. 


Oh, and unless I'm mistaken, your last sentence literally means nothing.


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## Jayro (Oct 23, 2022)

And just like that, she was gone.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 23, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> You certainly have a way with words!


I try. Can do the diplomatic phrasing and can do the fun words as well, this seems like a fitting case for the latter. Though more importantly am I wrong in my assessment of the situation there? Modern medicine (which is ostensibly cradle to grave for the whole population) is only getting more expensive beyond rates of inflation (even current inflation levels) by dint of fancier and fancier tools (medical scanning today in most county level hospitals was super high end scientific tools 20 years ago, maybe one in the country, with ranks more sub specialities now in each hospital and all that goes with that), not aided by people getting old* and fat (minimal effects before 50 as far as the NHS is concerned, rapidly rising after that owing to be a complicating and aggravating factor in basically everything, sadly not always being a massive heart attack the day after retirement/day before your expensive knee replacements at 62). About the only bonus is smoking rates seem to be down, though in terms of funds that might well mean less tax to fund it (since they started hiding it in shops I had no idea of the prices, had to get some for someone the other day... wow and most of that is tax) and those that would have died off earlier now lingering with whatever else (likely way more expensive) for 15 more years instead.

*generally expensive -- from 15 to 50 unless you break a bone most people probably just get some antibiotics from time to time (hope resistance does not kick off properly in the future either) or some painkillers when you throw your back out, the latter of which is probably a personal expense anyway, or in the case of women maybe a trip to the gynaecologist/obgyn however often you are supposed to do that plus a few more should they actually have a child (rarer hobby than previous decades these days, with it only set to get less common, and that posing a further funding issue even if prices stayed the same/went in line with inflation) and possibly cluttering up the GPs mentioned with a few frivolities here and there or indeed to be told there-there by someone in a white coat/owning a stethoscope. Beyond that is when the fun stuff happens, ramping up as age does and people or medics wanting to have said people being in a broadly functional state and spinning around the sun for as long as possible (modern medicine making that more and more possible). Sure you get some car crashes, industrial accidents, random cancers, unlucky types, genetic inferiors that would not traditionally have made it past childhood (never mind successfully breeding to pass it on, maybe it is a recessive or combination trait), tourist or import with something rare, psychological problems (not aided by modern living either) and drug addicts (possibly also a reflection of modern living) to keep it somewhat less boring.




Taleweaver said:


> That might have been a thing of the lead was in the single digits. This kind of digits that even long term voters would rather have someone else in charge. And you can't blame them: it's kind of hard to maintain an illusion of democracy if you're just swapping a petty crook with someone with an agenda that doesn't even pretend to care about the general public.
> 
> 
> Oh, and unless I'm mistaken, your last sentence literally means nothing.


The conservatives came in with a similar lead (as long as they could get their party in line, and for the most part the whips did have control, indeed still is just about the case in terms of numbers, they could have passed anything up to and including things that might have needed a super majority) and instead twiddled their thumbs and got people calling them conservatives in name only. Generally see the same in reverse as well, plus the regional/devolved stuff (SNP, which is basically labour, has been in proper majority power in Scotland for years, nothing happened, or we can look in the US -- nobody is clamouring to get to New York, California, Washington state, Oregon despite most of those having serious majority rule and a lot of internal power and funds for some time, and most of those have serious serious problems looming as well).

Not sure how it means nothing. Inertia in politics is generally how it works -- in the unlikely event some firebrand does get in (does not matter what side) or their puppet masters are firebrands (more likely than the boring yes man centrist figurehead that most party leaders are/end up being so as to appeal to the broadest audience/swing voters, whether that be the Parliamentary Labour Party or 1922 committee, or something more back door/sinister depending upon your world view), something gets changed in parliament, no legal challenges issued or issuable (see the various things attempted to stop and stymie leaving the EU for an example, these need no majority as much as a clever lawyer, which is a serious chunk of both political parties with even more on the payroll), probably get kicked back from the house of lords to change some wording they tried to slip through, we will ignore the sign off of the king (last time anything happened there was hundreds of years ago, and even that was a quirk at behest of parliament), probably has a become effective date, then have to train either police to enforce it (good luck) or have it filter down the civil service (the not elected aspect and typically there for the long haul, usually referred to as whitehall gremlins, each party will complain about capture by the other party -- see again leaked text messages and such complaining about the party in charge) and then onto schools, healthcare, tax code... whatever as people get left to figure it out, and then again at local level as most things are regional, and probably do what they were originally doing unless they get called out on it, maybe give it lip service if there is a money barrel uncorked to get some of it. At this point quite some time has probably passed, likely years, and eh.
Sure there are emergency and quicker measures for when it matters but for the most part they are actually left for emergencies rather than frivolities.
Changing colours of ties of whatever dudes are sitting on the big bench ultimately mattering little, any particular elections possibly being a reflection of how brazen the politicos in question have been with their snouts in the trough (or dick in the snout of depending upon personal proclivities) and degree of "that's just not cricket" fallout of that.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 24, 2022)

The new U.K. PM:


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## emigre (Oct 24, 2022)

TBF he genuinely couldn't be worse then Liz Truss.

The issues around his family's tax status was a red flag coupled with his mixed record as Chancellor, it's not great. As a Asian man myself, it's defiantly great to see an Asian PM. Still not voting Tory, they've really messed up the Country.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 24, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> The new U.K. PM:




Lol winner because everyone else dropped out, must be really nice to win like that. Not that the competitors were stellar lol 

Let's see how he fares, with these ideas of his, since he's one of the people who more than others acted to sink the UK.


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## KingVamp (Oct 25, 2022)

Reminds me of this meme.
​


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## AsPika2219 (Oct 26, 2022)

Congratulations to Rishi Sunak for becomes UK Prime Minster as non white skin, also first India person stay in UK!


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 26, 2022)

AsPika2219 said:


> Congratulations to Rishi Sunak for becomes UK Prime Minster as non white skin, also first India person stay in UK!


Congratulations for being the only one left in a race where everyone else dropped out?


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## Taleweaver (Oct 26, 2022)

emigre said:


> TBF he genuinely couldn't be worse then Liz Truss.


Yeah... You can put that on a billboard

"vote Sunak... Because he genuinely couldn't be worse than Truss "


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 27, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Yeah... You can put that on a billboard
> 
> "vote Sunak... Because he genuinely couldn't be worse than Truss "


LOL no one voted for him, not even MPs.


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## subcon959 (Oct 27, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> LOL no one voted for him, not even MPs.


That's why people patting themselves on the back about how progressive Britain is are ridiculous. He's not really the first Asian prime minister unless he's voted in by the population.


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## sombrerosonic (Oct 27, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> That's why people patting themselves on the back about how progressive Britain is are ridiculous. He's not really the first Asian prime minister unless he's voted in by the population.


Won by doing absolutely nothing


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## mrdude (Oct 27, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> That's why people patting themselves on the back about how progressive Britain is are ridiculous. He's not really the first Asian prime minister unless he's voted in by the population.


Exactly. he wasn't voted in by anyone from the public and the Tories will find that out come election time. People voted for the Cons because we wanted Brexit done and believed Boris would sort it out, however he was as corrupt as a snake, Truss was incompetant and Sunak was sneaked into no 10 by the globalists. Labour are a bunch scum as well. A lot of people will be changing their votes to the Reform party and if Nigel Farrage goes back into politics, well you can expect many will vote for his party.


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## smf (Oct 27, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Numbers are already known. Don't need officials (which lie all the time anyway as it is in their vested interest -- see also the inflation rate vs real rates) to tell us that one, it gets a bit hazier a few years out when variable rates are set to kick in.
> 
> Equally is labour sufficiently rehabilitated or is this trading bad for less bad?


Isn't that normal? Unless you are a black/white thinker, then less bad is better.

There are preliminary numbers being thrown around, but we won't know what the situation is until 17th November.

I'm not sure what your point about "inflation rate vs real rates" mean. The impact on all 66 million people in the UK will be different, the rpi/cpi is an indication of inflation based on a hypothetical average person. Who obviously doesn't exist.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2022



mrdude said:


> Exactly. he wasn't voted in by anyone from the public and the Tories will find that out come election time. People voted for the Cons because we wanted Brexit done and believed Boris would sort it out, however he was as corrupt as a snake, Truss was incompetant and Sunak was sneaked into no 10 by the globalists. Labour are a bunch scum as well. A lot of people will be changing their votes to the Reform party and if Nigel Farrage goes back into politics, well you can expect many will vote for his party.


To be fair, anyone who voted for Boris to get brexit done deserves all they got. You made us poorer and have less rights.

Hopefully one day you will all be held responsible. Farage included. The utter piece of shit has already been out conning his goons again.


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## mrdude (Oct 27, 2022)

smf said:


> To be fair, anyone who voted for Boris to get brexit done deserves all they got. You made us poorer and have less rights.
> 
> Hopefully one day you will all be held responsible. Farage included. The utter piece of shit has already been out conning his goons again.


I don't want some unelected EU twat telling me how to live my life and spending my tax money on stuff outside of the UK, so I will NEVER regret leaving the EU or voting for Brexit. The public have spoken, and even after all the project fear propoganda and everything that's happened since we voted to leave, I'd still vote the same way and so would most of the British poplulation. Come election time - we will get rid of some of the Traitors in this country.

Also the likes of people like you that go around calling people 'a piece of shit', well you are the real piece's of shit but you are too stupid to realise that.

Farage has done more for this country in 1 lifetime, than you could achieve if you lived a million lifetimes.


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## tr3vk4m (Oct 27, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I don't want some unelected EU twat telling me how to live my life and spending my tax money on stuff outside of the UK, so I will NEVER regret leaving the EU or voting for Brexit. The public have spoken, and even after all the project fear propoganda and everything that's happened since we voted to leave, I'd still vote the same way and so would most of the British poplulation. Come election time - we will get rid of some of the Traitors in this country.
> 
> Also the likes of people like you that go around calling people 'a piece of shit', well you are the real piece's of shit but you are too stupid to realise that.
> 
> Farage has done more for this country in 1 lifetime, than you could achieve if you lived a million lifetimes.


Brexit was a terrible mistake and Farage is largely responsible. It has totally screwed our economy. 

Also, weak ass comeback. "I know you are but what am I?" Gooby pls. 

Not everyone can spell 'propaganda' but those who can't aren't often too thick to use a spell check. smh

	Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2022

Also, I must say. Fuck the Tories.

Just like they've fucked us.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 27, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I don't want some unelected EU twat telling me how to live my life and spending my tax money on stuff outside of the UK,


LOL but German monarchs, House of Lords copied from France and foundations of Roman law are all fine. Besides, EU laws made the UK considerably better, while it's obvious England makes the whole UK worse. No wonder the scots want out, at least the EU is democratic, unlike the UK, corrupt to the brim.


mrdude said:


> Exactly. he wasn't voted in by anyone from the public and the Tories will find that out come election time. People voted for the Cons because we wanted Brexit done and believed Boris would sort it out, however he was as corrupt as a snake, Truss was incompetant and Sunak was sneaked into no 10 by the globalists. Labour are a bunch scum as well. A lot of people will be changing their votes to the Reform party and if Nigel Farrage goes back into politics, well you can expect many will vote for his party.


Always excuses. Also, "globalists", you're a sick antisemite so let's add that to your innumerable list of faults. Pathetic scapegoating for your own. Sunak wasn't "sneaked in" by anybody, there were 3 candidates and 2 pulled out, including Alexander de Pfeffel Boris Johnson, and for him pulling out is a first.

Nigel Farage deserves the rope, and anyone who voted for these shambles deserves to go bust and die in a ditch. Voting for Brexit was the single greatest act of treason in peacetime - anyone who voted for it is a neophyte (Lord) Haw-Haw.

"Labour are a bunch of scum" - despite being unable to say why. So LOL.

Also, the UK NEVER elects its prime minister or its own government (unlike the EU, which has it elected twice, one through elected representative and second by MEPs). You're just mad you Tory scum 0.6% can't decide again for millions who the PM is. Deal with it, snowflake.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2022



tr3vk4m said:


> It has totally screwed our economy.


And with that, it screwed the whole social system and proved, without a shadow of a doubt, the UK isn't a democracy, but an oligarchy - plutocracy, if anything - where England always ends up trouncing the other states of the Union.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2022



mrdude said:


> I'd still vote the same way and so would most of the British poplulation.


LOL nothing says more "ImBrexile" than failing at your native language, displaying complete ignorance of the constitutional principles of the UK and a 0% in taking responsibility. And this is a lie btw - Record % of Brits who think Brexit was a mistake. Even its architects stopped defending it (except JRM who is a basket case, that living scarecrow who never worked a single day in his life, kinda like Fuhrage).


mrdude said:


> Farage has done more for this country in 1 lifetime, than you could achieve if you lived a million lifetimes.


You're an imbecile. If Brexit is such a good idea why did Fuhrage did the impossible to get a German passport for him and his family, as did plenty of Tory fat cats who bought EU citizenship? They played y'all for mugs.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 27, 2022)

smf said:


> There are preliminary numbers being thrown around, but we won't know what the situation is until 17th November.
> 
> I'm not sure what your point about "inflation rate vs real rates" mean. The impact on all 66 million people in the UK will be different, the rpi/cpi is an indication of inflation based on a hypothetical average person. Who obviously doesn't exist.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2022


The inflation rates as reported by various "official sources" are in a term cooked to all hell and back. Anything they can do to serve their agenda (even more so if their loans are inflation linked, which UK ones are, not that just being "their fault" even if inflation is a lagging thing from the money printing) they often do.
Equally it is not a hypothetical average person, it is supposed to be a list of things that you compare year on year. Except they do things like start off say premium toothpaste of so many ml, if they want to fiddle the stats next year might be store brand mouthburner instead and they can say it is not as high as we thought (repeat for many the many things), and substitutions can also be done (beef for chicken sort of thing). The hypothetical average person might come into play when the VAT exempt list is drawn up.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
https://business.adobe.com/resources/digital-price-index.html (many will use this as a preview of upcoming "official" rates).
https://business.adobe.com/uk/resources/digital-price-index.html
You also have things like the manufacturer indexes/producer price indexes that calculate price to manufacture things (retailer and delivery markups added on top of this, you can't make a business on all loss leaders either and margins on retail are tiny at the best of times https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071615/what-profit-margin-usual-company-retail-sector.asp , best you will get from that is shrinkflation where the volumes are reduced at the same time as a price bump to soften the apparent blow), and energy costs (if you are not sucking it out of the ground and are somewhere people want to live then you are a value added economy, aka turning energy into things or services)
https://data.oecd.org/price/producer-price-indices-ppi.htm
These tend to be twiddled a bit less which is also when comparing things there makes the twiddling done for the retail aspects even more blatant, or at least a sign of things to come (rising tide lifts all ships after all).


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 27, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> The inflation rates as reported by various "official sources" are in a term cooked to all hell and back. Anything they can do to serve their agenda (even more so if their loans are inflation linked, which UK ones are, not that just being "their fault" even if inflation is a lagging thing from the money printing) they often do.
> Equally it is not a hypothetical average person, it is supposed to be a list of things that you compare year on year. Except they do things like start off say premium toothpaste of so many ml, if they want to fiddle the stats next year might be store brand mouthburner instead and they can say it is not as high as we thought (repeat for many the many things), and substitutions can also be done (beef for chicken sort of thing). The hypothetical average person might come into play when the VAT exempt list is drawn up.
> http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
> https://business.adobe.com/resources/digital-price-index.html (many will use this as a preview of upcoming "official" rates).
> ...



This is all very nice and dandy - but I feel rhe effect of inflation in my own finances. Faffed up stats or not, it's real and it bites.


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## mrdude (Oct 27, 2022)

tr3vk4m said:


> Brexit was a terrible mistake and Farage is largely responsible. It has totally screwed our economy.


Yet, most of the Public voted for it, because they have more sense than you. The economy was already screwed before Brexit - ask the bankers! and of course Covid never helped, and the fact that most of the world in in an economic downturn as well has nothing to do with it.........

Farage is ace, and as I already said, he's achieved more in his life than you ever will, even if you could live your life a million times over you probably wouldn't come close to what he's managed to do.


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## smf (Oct 28, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> The inflation rates as reported by various "official sources" are in a term cooked to all hell and back. Anything they can do to serve their agenda (even more so if their loans are inflation linked, which UK ones are, not that just being "their fault" even if inflation is a lagging thing from the money printing) they often do.
> Equally it is not a hypothetical average person, it is supposed to be a list of things that you compare year on year. Except they do things like start off say premium toothpaste of so many ml, if they want to fiddle the stats next year might be store brand mouthburner instead and they can say it is not as high as we thought (repeat for many the many things), and substitutions can also be done (beef for chicken sort of thing).


A hypothetical average human will also be changing their buying habits.

I agree it's a nightmare to prepare the CPI shopping basket each year, but I'd need to see some evidence that they were deliberately trying to make the figures appear lower than they are.

My buying habits are very different to the CPI shopping basket and have been for at least a decade.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 28, 2022



mrdude said:


> Yet, most of the Public voted for it, because they have more sense than you.


No, they didn't. Another proof that maths is not the strong suit of leave voters.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 28, 2022



mrdude said:


> I don't want some unelected EU twat telling me how to live my life and spending my tax money on stuff outside of the UK, so I will NEVER regret leaving the EU or voting for Brexit.


I think you have major issues understanding how the EU works, they should do an IQ test before letting people vote.

We've had two unelected twats telling you how to live your life in the last couple of months.

The EU is way more democratic than the UK is. So the only conclusion that can be drawn is that it's where the people come from that upsets you, which is xenophobia (although generally now it's common to call it racist). Idiots and racists voted for brexit, some of the idiots are starting to see the light while the racists are a much tougher nut to crack.

Once the conservatives are out of government, we will start to see a more honest approach to the EU. The unelected twats from the IEA have been manipulating the government into their far right ideology for a long time now.

That needs to stop.


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## mrdude (Oct 28, 2022)

smf said:


> No, they didn't. Another proof that maths is not the strong suit of leave voters.


What mental gymnastics did you use to come to that conclusion? Haha, I bet you also think a man can be a woman and vice versa.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 28, 2022



smf said:


> We've had two unelected twats telling you how to live your life in the last couple of months.


That we can agree on, I would never have voted for either of those twats.

I am looking forward to the US elections in a couple of weeks - the red wave is comming! Biden will become even more pointless than he already is and Putin and China can do whatever they want and destroy the status quo, I want the current world to be destroyed just as much as you do, that way we can kill off all of the twats and make it better.


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## smf (Oct 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> What mental gymnastics did you use to come to that conclusion? Haha, I bet you also think a man can be a woman and vice versa.


Maths. Take the total population (ie the public) and divide it by those who voted to leave.

Did you mean to say, "Of those who were allowed to and then chose to participate in the referendum, slightly more chose to vote to leave than to remain"? It was a rather undemocratic referendum by many measures. Of course you're so pumped on "winning" your empty victory that you are incapable of critical thought.

I bet you think your whataboutism is relevant too....



mrdude said:


> That we can agree on, I would never have voted for either of those twats.



Liz Truss is basically brexit in human form. The IEA is basically why slightly more people were conned into voting for brexit, than chose to vote to remain.

https://iea.org.uk/films/who-is-liz-truss/

and



It took 44 days to prove the IEA has always been wrong about everything.

If the people hadn't been lied to about what leaving the EU meant, it's clear that we would never have left. conservative doesn't mean libertarian. Which should keep you awake at night with regret.


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## mrdude (Oct 28, 2022)

smf said:


> Maths. Take the total population (ie the public) and divide it by those who voted to leave.


If you had any brains you'd know you don't count people that didn't vote - you only take into consideration the voters. If people are too young to vote - tough luck as they can vote when they are older, if they are too lazy to vote, well they deserve everything they get.

The MAJORITY of VOTERS chose to leave, deal with it.


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## smf (Oct 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> If you had any brains you'd know you don't count people that didn't vote


If you had any brains you wouldn't purposefully overstate the result of a vote.

As I said previously, misrepresenting figures is classic leave voter territory. If you were honest then you would have voted remain.

The UK's corrupt FPTP system is also behind the brexit vote, the landslide victory in 2019 that saw the conservatives take a massive majority was based on 43.6% of people who voted, voting conservative. David Cameron only received 36.8% which allowed him to push the referendum through.

If we had some form of PR then we'd never have had the referendum in the first place.

If you cared about democracy at all then you'd be more upset about how the UK conducts itself, than how the EU conducts itself. Which proves you are disingenuous & are just using it to justify your preferred outcome.

The majority of people in the UK don't want conservatives & don't want to be out of the EU. Enjoy your pyrrhic victory while it lasts.


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## mrdude (Oct 28, 2022)

smf said:


> If you had any brains you wouldn't purposefully overstate the result of a vote.
> 
> As I said previously, misrepresenting figures is classic leave voter territory. If you were honest then you would have voted remain.
> 
> ...


I live in reality, you live in a fantasy realm. In the realm of realty the UK has left the EU, it's a done deal. We left because there were more leave voters than remoaners. Deal with it loser, if you want to be part of the EU - do us all a favour move to the EU and become an EU citizen. That way you can wave your EU flag about and us lot in Britian can laugh at you.

PS, are you related to this cretin?


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## smf (Oct 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I live in reality, you live in a fantasy realm. In the realm of realty the UK has left the EU, it's a done deal. We left because there were more leave voters than remoaners. Deal with it loser, if you want to be part of the EU - do us all a favour move to the EU and become an EU citizen. That way you can wave your EU flag about and us lot in Britian can laugh at you.


There are no done deals. The majority of people in Britain are laughing at you & how deluded you still are that voting to leave the EU was a good idea.

If you hadn't fucked up and voted leave, then I could have moved to the EU. You chose to be poorer, with less job opportunities, less trade opportunities. More red tape. More unelected twats running your life (but they are british twats, so your anxieties are soothed)

Leave voters live in a fantasy realm, because you can't even accept the reality of what you voted for and won. Otherwise you would regret it by now.

Congratulations sucker, now go hang out with your sheeple in the echo chamber. Farage will be shepherding you to vote for more self harm soon.


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## mrdude (Oct 28, 2022)

smf said:


> There are no done deals. The majority of people in Britain are laughing at you & how deluded you still are that voting to leave the EU was a good idea.
> 
> If you hadn't fucked up and voted leave, then I could have moved to the EU. You chose to be poorer, with less job opportunities, less trade opportunities. More red tape. More unelected twats running your life (but they are british twats, so your anxieties are soothed)
> 
> ...


I'm loving the salt I'm getting from you. You've given me enough salt to last for a week. I bet you're also mad that Elon now owns Twatter. Next month you'll be whining about the repbulicans in USA taking the senate, and i'll still be laughing at you and salt mining your salty tears.


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## tr3vk4m (Oct 28, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I'm loving the salt I'm getting from you. You've given me enough salt to last for a week. I bet you're also mad that Elon now owns Twatter. Next month you'll be whining about the repbulicans in USA taking the senate, and i'll still be laughing at you and salt mining your salty tears.


Oh, so other than acting pleased by imagining you are upsetting someone, like some kind of friendless playground bully, you have zero actual information to add?


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## KingVamp (Oct 28, 2022)

There is more than a week worth of salt, due to a PM doing so badly, that she couldn't even make it to the end of the year.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 28, 2022)

smf said:


> If the people hadn't been lied to about what leaving the EU meant, it's clear that we would never have left. conservative doesn't mean libertarian. Which should keep you awake at night with regret.


He doesn't have enough intelligence to be regretful of anything, like a lemming he plummets to doom with no second thoughts because of his Little Englander xenophobic mindset. And ignorance.


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## mrdude (Oct 28, 2022)

tr3vk4m said:


> Oh, so other than acting pleased by imagining you are upsetting someone, like some kind of friendless playground bully, you have zero actual information to add?


Haha, let me lick those tears of unfathomable sadness.


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## SScorpio (Oct 28, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> He doesn't have enough intelligence to be regretful of anything, like a lemming he plummets to doom with no second thoughts because of his Little Englander xenophobic mindset. And ignorance.


The whole stuff with lemmings running off cliffs was based on a nature documentary filmed by Disney where the producers drove and threw lemmings off the cliff.

But it's not surprising you are still fooled by decades-old fake news.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 28, 2022)

LOL look at you, thinking

No wonder you couldn't keep a single job in your life.





SScorpio said:


> The whole stuff with lemmings running off cliffs was based on a nature documentary filmed by Disney where the producers drove and threw lemmings off the cliff.
> 
> But it's not surprising you are still fooled by decades-old fake news.



Oh look, you're wrong again: https://www.britannica.com/story/do-lemmings-really-commit-mass-suicide

So apparently lemmings do that but most end up dying. You're really a grandstanding of disappointment for your parents, aren't you.


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> LOL look at you, thinking
> 
> No wonder you couldn't keep a single job in your life.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting an article backing up my point. As the article says they can swim, but a few do end up drowning while attempting to swim across bodies of water.



> *Lemmings do not commit suicide.* However, this particular myth is based on some actual lemming behaviors. Lemmings have large population booms every three or four years. When the concentration of lemmings becomes too high in one area, a large group will set out in search of a new home. Lemmings can swim, so if they reach a water obstacle, such as a river or lake, they may try to cross it. Inevitably, a few individuals drown. But it’s hardly suicide.



They do not in fact plunge to their deaths off cliffs.



> But the biggest reason the myth endures? Deliberate fraud. For the 1958 Disney nature film _White Wilderness_, filmmakers eager for dramatic footage staged a lemming death plunge, pushing dozens of lemmings off a cliff while cameras were rolling. The images—shocking at the time for what they seemed to show about the cruelty of nature and shocking now for what they actually show about the cruelty of humans—convinced several generations of moviegoers that these little rodents do, in fact, possess a bizarre instinct to destroy themselves.



Perhaps your NPC chip is rewriting what you read in real-time?


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Thanks for posting an article backing up my point. As the article says they can swim, but a few do end up drowning while attempting to swim across bodies of water.


which is what I said.


SScorpio said:


> They do not in fact plunge to their deaths off cliffs.


I mean, they do, because "plunging" means to fall off and die? It doesn't imply any voluntariness whatsoever.


SScorpio said:


> Perhaps your NPC chip is rewriting what you read in real-time?


Perhaps your complete lack of brainpower is trying to say I said they actively commit suicide? Because I dare you to quote exactly where I said that. hilarious you think you can afford to talk about others being "NPC" when you're nothing more than a blip in the RNG.


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Perhaps your complete lack of brainpower is trying to say I said they actively commit suicide? Because I dare you to quote exactly where I said that. hilarious you think you can afford to talk about others being "NPC" when you're nothing more than a blip in the RNG.



No, I'm commenting on your saying:



Dark_Ansem said:


> Oh look, you're wrong again: https://www.britannica.com/story/do-lemmings-really-commit-mass-suicide
> 
> So apparently lemmings do that but *most *end up dying. You're really a grandstanding of disappointment for your parents, aren't you.



The article you posted claims that they do have population spikes every 3-4 years and then do mass migrations. But it also only states that a few individuals drown during water crossings. And makes no reference to them falling off cliffs during the migrations. The only reference to death by falling is the fake news Disney nature documentary.

Please share any articles that back up your claims that the migration ends up killing off most of the lemmings. But so far you haven't provided evidence of that.

And feel free to continue the childish naming calling. Your kind always loves to project how you look at yourself onto others. I'll just fall back and reference the case of "I am rubber, you are glue".


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## TraderPatTX (Oct 29, 2022)

smf said:


> There are no done deals. The majority of people in Britain are laughing at you & how deluded you still are that voting to leave the EU was a good idea.


So the vote totals of a secure election are not final anymore? Do tell.


smf said:


> If you hadn't fucked up and voted leave, then I could have moved to the EU. You chose to be poorer, with less job opportunities, less trade opportunities. More red tape. More unelected twats running your life (but they are british twats, so your anxieties are soothed)
> 
> Leave voters live in a fantasy realm, because you can't even accept the reality of what you voted for and won. Otherwise you would regret it by now.


Looks like they live in Great Britain, the way it was centuries before the EU was formed in the 1990's.


smf said:


> Congratulations sucker, now go hang out with your sheeple in the echo chamber. Farage will be shepherding you to vote for more self harm soon.


You sound like an election denier. I'd be careful if I were you. That kind of talk may get you banned.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> The article you posted claims that they do have population spikes every 3-4 years and then do mass migrations. But it also only states that a few individuals drown during water crossings. And makes no reference to them falling off cliffs during the migrations.



They fall AND drown while attempting to do something else. A perfect parable of modern times, isn't it?



SScorpio said:


> The only reference to death by falling is the fake news Disney nature documentary.



I'm aware, but an easily understandable, even if erroneous, reference is needed for you NPCs and nonexistent mental faculties.



SScorpio said:


> And feel free to continue the childish naming calling. Your kind always loves to project how you look at yourself onto others. I'll just fall back and reference the case of "I am rubber, you are glue



Aw how cute, more pathetic attempts at appearing all innocent, it must be your NPC programming talking.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 29, 2022



TraderPatTX said:


> Looks like they live in Great Britain, the way it was centuries before the EU was formed in the 1990's.



Uk came to be around 1700, United Europe dates to the Roman empire. 



TraderPatTX said:


> So the vote totals of a secure election are not final anymore? Do tell.



It wasn't an election and it wasn't secure, and the pledges were fully demonstrated to be lies who will not be achieved even if the UK lasts another thousand years, which it won't.


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> They fall AND drown while attempting to do something else. A perfect parable of modern times, isn't it?
> 
> I'm aware, but an easily understandable, even if erroneous, reference is needed for you NPCs and nonexistent mental faculties.
> 
> Aw how cute, more pathetic attempts at appearing all innocent, it must be your NPC programming talking.



Have you ever swum before? Nowhere does it say anything about the lemmings falling. And how is drowning while attempting to swim across a body of water dying while attempting to do something else? 

If you want a parable for modern times. Watching Black Friday swarms, humans appear to be much worse than lemmings as I've seen far more injuries and deaths at Walmarts across the country than a lemming migration.

No, fake news is never right. It says a lot about you that you feel making up false facts to get your point across is fine.

Error, error deploying fire suppressant to handle a sick burn. Here it comes:


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Have you ever swum before?



I have, have you?



SScorpio said:


> If you want a parable for modern times. Watching Black Friday swarms, humans appear to be much worse than lemmings as I've seen far more injuries and deaths at Walmarts across the country than a lemming migration.



That's what I meant.



SScorpio said:


> No, fake news is never right. It says a lot about you that you feel making up false facts to get your point across is fine



I didn't say they were right, illiterate NPC. I said I needed something you would understand, which you did, miraculously. Do you know what "erroneous" means?



SScorpio said:


> Error, error deploying fire suppressant to handle a sick burn.



I mean, I can call the wambulance for you as you need it badly.


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I have, have you?


Yes, many times. And swimming in lakes and rivers like the lemmings would encounter you wade out into them. You don't just fall and suddenly drown.



Dark_Ansem said:


> That's what I meant.


Then you need to say what you mean. People aren't mindreaders, use your words.



Dark_Ansem said:


> I didn't say they were right, illiterate NPC. I said I needed something you would understand, which you did, miraculously. Do you know what "erroneous" means?





Dark_Ansem said:


> I'm aware, but an easily understandable, even if erroneous, reference is needed for you NPCs and nonexistent mental faculties.


So you make a comment on an erroneous fact, and I correct the misinformation. You then back up my claim, while still arguing the opposite. And then say I'm the one having issues understanding things?

Have you tried out for the 2024 Summer Olympics yet? You're a shoo-in for the gold in mental gymnastics.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> *nonsensically procedurally generated NPC reactions*



Yawn. You give off the energy of a tired snail returning home from a funeral. Your NPC brains could revolve inside a peanut shell for a thousand years without touching the sides.


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> Yawn. You give off the energy of a tired snail returning home from a funeral. Your NPC brains could revolve inside a peanut shell for a thousand years without touching the sides.


I take it back. If you are giving up already your Olympic performance would start off strong, but a quarter of the way through the routine you'd have a massive failure which would cause the music to be immediately replaced with:


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> *poorly coded NPC reaction with stock SFX*



Sure, sure, whatever your stock grunts mean! *pat pat* *washes hands*


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> *more NPC copiumthink plus
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, did your NPC programming just say I'd kill myself by setting myself on fire? That's a fate only for NPCs, kinda like plummeting to the ground from fatal height. I guess your mother, whoever she is considering you're _matris ignotae_, never taught you that.

Setting people on fire would probably be the closest you could ever get to "burn" another


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> I'm sorry, did your NPC programming just say I'd kill myself by setting myself on fire? That's a fate only for NPCs, kinda like plummeting to the ground from fatal height. I guess your mother, whoever she is considering you're _matris ignotae_, never taught you that.
> 
> Setting people on fire would probably be the closest you could ever get to "burn" another


No, just that we'd end up with yet another firey but peaceful protest destroying a lot of private property.

You may want to take some reading compression classes, you appear to have a very bad habit of adding in things to what you're reading. Or is it just data from your chip again? Did you get the patch for it yet? You'll need that update to help you spin a gay nudist from Berkley being a MAGA agent attempting to assassinate Paul Pelosi in the middle of the night. And not him fighting off Paul rather than being Ed Bucked.


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## Dark_Ansem (Oct 29, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> *embarrassing NPC speech backtracking*



Nice try, I guess your programming features a "lame excuses" protocol to kick in whenever you're called out. 

Also, I think your reading chip is malfunctioning as I added *nothing* to your own words, you're digging your NPC grave in earnest by yourself. So yeah, I think you need to call the wambulance as your minor-NPC senility is showing, and a couple more glitches will mean you get deleted from the executable.


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## SScorpio (Oct 29, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> 90s era modem mating ritual sounds.


Wow, it's freeing to just ignore everything and live in your own fantasy land. I'll have to do some further release on the hammer Paul Pelosi had. I only want the very best to brain myself with, so I can lower myself to your level.


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## linuxares (Oct 29, 2022)

As normal, people just keep attacking each other so I will just close this thread. She isn't even PM any longer anyway


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