# Please make a logic test



## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

The title explains itself. In the past few days I have seen abundance amounts of users with just horrible logic. It has gotten to the point where they have trolled my online experience at GBAtemp and I have compulsions to correct these users with an angered passion. A common trait I have seen in these posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16. Just so we are all on track, this is logic:

"A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16"

I can bet, with probability of near .9, someone who is between the age 13-16 will read that statement and say, "I am pretty smart, I absolutely know logic, you can't generalize all 13-16 year olds." Here is why you fail, you don't know logic. If you are between the ages 13-16 and take offense of that above statement, you are affirming the consequent (I guess we can use some logical equivalences to turn it into negation of the antecedent but meh). I said a modus ponens statement with, if you are an illogical poster, then with probability near .8 are of the age 13-16. I didn't make any inferences on people between ages 13-16, I made an inference on illogical posters. That's why affirming the consequent is bad logic.

That's why, when I make a suggestion, I'm not going to direct it at people of ages 13-16, I'm going to direct it at illogical posters. Hence, the title explains it all, we need to have a logic test before people can't start posting. I'm am going to blow a headgasket if more no logic posters happen to appear on these forums. 

Make it a simple test for all I care, make it so that you need at least .5 of the problems right, because, natural selection is not doing it's job.


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## Fishaman P (May 22, 2011)

1) Looking up words in the dictionary to post with is kind of... cheating on intelligence.
2) I take *GREAT* offense at that statement.
3) You are free to use logic to post something that _actually makes sense._


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## SifJar (May 22, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Just so we are all on track, this is logic:
> 
> "A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16"



That is not logic. Logic =/= probability. That statement is not logical.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

Fishaman P said:
			
		

> 1) Looking up words in the dictionary to post with is kind of... cheating on intelligence.
> 2) I take *GREAT* offense at that statement.
> 3) You are free to use logic to post something that _actually makes sense._
> 
> ...



That sir, who I have had almost complete respect before you posted this, is a modus ponens statement with probability embedded in the consequent or conclusion. Tell me why I can't do that and hence it is not a statement of logic. It may not be formal to approach this, but the way we interpret logic is a man-made creation just like what I did up there. In a matter of fact, if I didn't include the probability statement up there, then we assume with probability 1 that it is the case.


-----

Thank you Fishman for being the perfect shiny example why we need a logic test. Thank you for being GBAtemp's fool of the day. Because, I have clearly explained everything in so much detail your tiny brain couldn't even comprehend things I left in very basic terms. I now know why Deadly quit... People with the slightest amount of intelligence are of minority.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

You are looking at it wrong SifJar.

In statistics, we make inferences of unknown paramaters. We would first identify a Unit of Observations, then we would like to identify a population of interest that consists with our Unit of Observations. Within this population we will find a parameter of interest and identify several properties of this parameter such as (discreet/continious, type of measurement nominal/ordinal/interval/ratio) and then this parameter becomes in entity.

You looked at my modus ponens statement wrong, in modus ponens, you are given if A has occured then it is such that B occurs. Otherwise A -> B. Our Unit of Observations are people who use GBAtemp, the population would be the members of GBAtemp, the paramater of interest would be the proportion of people who make illogical posts and their ages are between 13-16. This unknown quantity is an entity. The figure of .8 (based on sample observations) I came up with was not trying to modify the modus ponens statement but instead was apart of the B statement in modus ponens.

A = An illogical poster
B = being between the ages 13-16 with the estimation of the unknown paramter which is an theoretical entity

Then you can see, it clearly is logic with a modus ponens argument.

It wouldn't be bad logic, the statement would be false if and only if we took 20 (this is an arbitrary large number) illogical posters and there is enough evidence such that the parameter is different than .8 (which would be a statistical test) of 13-16 year olds.

---

Like I said before, I had nearly full respect for you because you were one of the few who were intelligent. I realize there was slight ambiguity in my sentence on what exactly I was doing. But if you are still going to claim that is not logic, please specify why not so I can either rectify my statement or attempt to continue this argument.

---

On a side note, Fishman. This topic is not for you. Please leave your post there because it is great evidence why we need logic tests and also a freaking reading comprehension test.


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## The Pi (May 22, 2011)

"A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16"
That is not logic it is an observation. As you called it "logic" you yourself failed.

It is quite obvious you regard yourself as a very intellgent person and there is nothing wrong with that I also think the same about myself, however, you also seem to think you are better than everyone else due to this high intelligence and also your age. Please explain why you think this, as I am an illogical 16 year old and can not comprehend such a notion.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

Please re-read what I had wrote the Pi.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> I didn't make any inferences on people between ages 13-16, I made an inference on illogical posters. That's why affirming the consequent is bad logic.



I don't understand what is so hard to understand. I have been a well accomplished math tutor and I have been known to help just about anyone in mathematics because I explain things exceedingly well.

You people keep taking this statement as, If you are between ages 13-16, then you are an illogical poster. Please realize that statement is nothing what I said. Not even the slightest way possible. At least SifJar was able to understand up to this far which is part of the reason why I have always had respect for the guy.

I said if you are an illogical poster, chances are you are between 13-16. I am not making any inferences what so ever on people between 13-16 which is my point.

You guys are all failing at logic so bad, I mean you guys are horrible. I thought at least half of GBAtemp would have understood this.


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## Nujui (May 22, 2011)

I don't really take offense to that statement, though I will say that not every person between the ages 13-16 are illogical. And most people are noobs at first anyways, and if they are smart enough, they'll learn from their mistakes. (Like me)

And you care about this why? The internet is where most illogical people are. And I've seen worst.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

Rydian is the only user I know so far who will understand what that statement says. This shit is supposed to be common sense.

The pi, please keep your post there, I know you have the capability of realizing your mistake, but I need it to be an example with fishman p. I realize that you see yourself as a very intelligent person, but if you cannot comprehend basic logic, the only thing you are demonstrating is that you are fancy at words.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> I don't really take offense to that statement, though I will say that not every person between the ages 13-16 are illogical.
> 
> And you care about this why? The internet is where most illogical people are. And I've seen worst.


Jesus... 
You are the third person who has mistaken what I had posted. I didn't say people between the ages 13-16 are illogical. OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG...

I will break this shit down:

Modus Ponens:

A ---> B

----

Out of the 4 posters so far, there is a large probability that only 1 has understood my statement, else no one did. This proportion, although too small is at max 25% of the sample size understood what my post was saying else 0%. While this sample size is way to low to make an inference on GBAtemp in general especially because the sample sizes weren't random, it was people who wanted to post.

Why does there need to have logic? Gbatemp hosts a wide variety of discussion boards. Discussions require logic otherwise it's an ass fest. People think they know logic and it is impossible to get anywhere with them because quite frankly, they can't comprehend why they are wrong. I have examples within the last few days (which I have mentioned in my post) where Gbatemp users are just epic failing at the discussion and it makes me want to punch babies(being sarcastic) (I'm sure some gbatemp users like Rydian know what I mean)

This statement is false if and only if A is true and B is false. My statement, "If you are an illogical poster, with some unknown probability you are between the ages 13-16" Sifjar questioned my use of probabilitys in a modus ponens statement, but I can assure him and everyone else that the probability is an actual entity and not part of the modus ponens statement itself. I had to incorporate that into the statement because as many posters have said, not all illogical posts are between the ages 13-16.

A = You are an illogical poster
B = With some probability you fall between 13-16

You guys are fucking up my statement, you guy logically saying:

B ----> A

which is completely different and is exactly my point (this type of error is called affirming the consequent which I have mentioned in the first post but you guys have a reading comprehension of a 3rd grader)
You guys keep reversing it and saying People between the ages of 13-16 are illogical posters which is completely a different thing logically.


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## Nujui (May 22, 2011)

Well, I still don't understand why you would need a "Logic Test". The internet is where the most illogical people are found, they either learn from there mistakes or don't.


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## BobTheJoeBob (May 22, 2011)

OK, so you want a logic test to see who is and isn't logical.... Then what? You can't exactly kick them off the site, being illogical isn't against the rules.


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## Nujui (May 22, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Rydian is the only user I know so far who will understand what that statement says. This shit is supposed to be common sense.
> 
> The pi, please keep your post there, I know you have the capability of realizing your mistake, but I need it to be an example with fishman p. I realize that you see yourself as a very intelligent person, but if you cannot comprehend basic logic, the only thing you are demonstrating is that you are fancy at words.
> 
> ...


Yes, I mistaken it, I'm sorry.

Though I still say a Logic Test isn't needed. I mean seriously, do you really expect their to be logical people on the internet? And even if they pass the test, their could be times when they act illogically.


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## Wizerzak (May 22, 2011)

It is completely illogical to post that ANY 13-16 year olds are illogical anyway. Your fishing, for trolls.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

Wizerzak, age 14, another member who has proven my point.



			
				BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> OK, so you want a logic test to see who is and isn't logical.... Then what? You can't exactly kick them off the site, being illogical isn't against the rules.
> 
> QUOTEThough I still say a Logic Test isn't needed. I mean seriously, do you really expect their to be logical people on the internet? And even if they pass the test, their could be times when they act illogically.



It's good to act illogically because it offers a chance to see your mistakes and improves intelligence overall (since logic is pretty much the root of everything). I'm not saying people need to hardcore learn logic, I'm saying people need common sense. So my flame and spam come from people who are just illogical. People claiming the PSN was hacked using CFW, then other people backing them up with bad logical statements.


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## Pyrmon (May 22, 2011)

Wizerzak said:
			
		

> It is completely illogical to post that ANY 13-16 year olds are illogical anyway. Your fishing, for trolls.


That's not what he said. He observed that illogical posters have a high probability of being in the 13-16 year old age group.


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## Nujui (May 22, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Wizerzak, age 14, another member who has once again saw my statement of logic wrong.


Yeah, I'm gonna stop ya right there and say age doesn't matter.


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## Wizerzak (May 22, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Wizerzak, age 14, another member who has once again saw my statement of logic wrong.



I did not see it wrong. I am merely stating that it is pointless to call people illogical as it doesn't gain _you_ anything and just causes arguments within the community.


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## Hi everyone (May 22, 2011)

fascinating...

if A, then B. it is A, so B will occur. -> that is logic.
if A, then B. it is B, so A has occurred. -> that isn't logic, because it is impossible to know whether A has occurred to make B happen.

let me explain this with an example:

if a terrorist crashes an airplane into a building (A), the building will fall down (B). -> makes perfect sense.
a building has fallen down (B), therefore a terrorist must have crashed an airplane into it (A). -> i sincerely hope you see this makes no sense whatsoever.

if you still don't get it, you're stupid.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 22, 2011)

Every forum you go to will have its fair share of idiots or in this case illogical people.

There's nothing you can do about it. It's silly to create a test just to judge whether one is illogical or not and whether they are allowed on the forums. If it bothers you that much, feel free to leave.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

Hi everyone said:
			
		

> fascinating...
> 
> if A, then B. it is A, so B will occur. -> that is logic.
> if A, then B. it is B, so A has occurred. -> that isn't logic, because it is impossible to know whether A has occurred to make B happen.
> ...



I am just repeating this statement. to keep updated.

Like most adults, I have important stuff to get to. It's obvious who the illogical posters are and amazingly my statement came out nearly true such that they were between the ages 13-16. My point has settled in and better, there are a few people who actually get where I was going with it. I am satisfied. I will only be posting if this thread gets overrun by more illogical posters.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

The title explains itself. In the past few days I have seen abundance amounts of users with just horrible logic. It has gotten to the point where they have trolled my online experience at GBAtemp and I have compulsions to correct these users with an angered passion. A common trait I have seen in these posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16. Just so we are all on track, this is logic:

"A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16"

I can bet, with probability of near .9, someone who is between the age 13-16 will read that statement and say, "I am pretty smart, I absolutely know logic, you can't generalize all 13-16 year olds." Here is why you fail, you don't know logic. If you are between the ages 13-16 and take offense of that above statement, you are affirming the consequent (I guess we can use some logical equivalences to turn it into negation of the antecedent but meh). I said a modus ponens statement with, if you are an illogical poster, then with probability near .8 are of the age 13-16. I didn't make any inferences on people between ages 13-16, I made an inference on illogical posters. That's why affirming the consequent is bad logic.

That's why, when I make a suggestion, I'm not going to direct it at people of ages 13-16, I'm going to direct it at illogical posters. Hence, the title explains it all, we need to have a logic test before people can't start posting. I'm am going to blow a headgasket if more no logic posters happen to appear on these forums. 

Make it a simple test for all I care, make it so that you need at least .5 of the problems right, because, natural selection is not doing it's job.


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## Wizerzak (May 22, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Hi everyone said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But why post it in the first place? All you are going to achieve is aggravating people.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

I am proving a point and the fact that I posted this in suggestion forums would hint why I am posting this.

Like I said, natural selection is not working fast enough on the GBAtemp forums and any of the long timers can show how the members of the community are going down hill. I swear, this is rooted to the amount of illogical posters.


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## DigitalDeviant (May 22, 2011)

and what would be the point of a logic test? We can't ban people based on failing common sense...


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## Nujui (May 22, 2011)

But there is no point to make one. Stupid people can still pass it and be stupid on here.

You just have to deal with it.


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## Hi everyone (May 22, 2011)

DigitalDeviant said:
			
		

> and what would be the point of a logic test? We can't ban people based on failing common sense...


why not? if they fail something as basic as common sense, why should they be allowed to spout nonsense all over the place?


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## DigitalDeviant (May 22, 2011)

Hi everyone said:
			
		

> DigitalDeviant said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this is not a dicatorship, its the internet, if its not trolling or offensive and repetitive, people deserve a chance to give their point of view and/or change their ways.


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## The Pi (May 22, 2011)

I completely understand your first post, I never said that I thought you said I was an illogical poster however, in the manner you worded the first post it is clear that you ARE ageist.

Please answer this as you failed to do so before "It is quite obvious you regard yourself as a very intellgent person and there is nothing wrong with that I also think the same about myself, however, you also seem to think you are better than everyone else due to this high intelligence and also your age. Please explain why you think this."


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## Uncle FEFL (May 22, 2011)

It was much better here before all you narcissistic douchebags started posting topics like these.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> I said a modus ponens statement with, if you are an illogical poster, then with probability near .8 are of the age 13-16. I didn't make any inferences on people between ages 13-16, I made an inference on illogical posters. That's why affirming the consequent is bad logic.



First of all, I'd like to know where you pulled that bullshit "statistic" from.
Second, just because "If A occurs, then B is an effect," is a logical premise does not mean its use is always logical. For example, your post is a complete non sequitur.

U lrn logic, bro


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## s4mid4re (May 22, 2011)

Hi everyone said:
			
		

> fascinating...
> 
> if A, then B. it is A, so B will occur. -> that is logic.
> if A, then B. it is B, so A has occurred. -> that isn't logic, because it is impossible to know whether A has occurred to make B happen.
> ...


A --> B doesn't make sense for me; a building isn't going to necessarily (100%) fall, even if a terrorist crashes an airplane into that building. from what I see, your A --> B logic states that the building will 100% fall, if a terrorist crashes an airplane.

well, but this is my opinion... or am I missing something here?


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## Terminator02 (May 22, 2011)

this thread makes me want to hurl


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## DigitalDeviant (May 22, 2011)

maybe he wants the thread to grow, well its working.

on a related note the best one can do is try to reason with people, if they choose ignorance let them be.


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## Ikki (May 22, 2011)

If you were so good with common sense you wouldn't have taken the time to make this thread since it won't achieve anything.


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## Uncle FEFL (May 22, 2011)

Hi everyone said:
			
		

> if A, then B. it is B, so A has occurred. -> that isn't logic, because it is impossible to know whether A has occurred to make B happen.


So, the Big Bang theory and theories like it are illogical in all ways?


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## DigitalDeviant (May 22, 2011)

Ikki said:
			
		

> If you were so good with common sense you wouldn't have taken the time to make this thread since it won't achieve anything.



I understand if this was a rant thread but nothing will come of this.


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## Hi everyone (May 22, 2011)

s4mid4re said:
			
		

> A --> B doesn't make sense for me; a building isn't going to necessarily (100%) fall, even if a terrorist crashes an airplane into that building. from what I see, your A --> B logic states that the building will 100% fall, if a terrorist crashes an airplane.
> 
> well, but this is my opinion... or am I missing something here?[mthr] dude, i can't even tell if you're trolling or not, your post is just that stupid.
> 
> QUOTE(Uncle FEFL @ May 22 2011, 09:24 PM) So, the Big Bang theory and theories like it are illogical in all ways?


a theory remains a theory until it is proven that it cannot be proven wrong, which is impossible. the big bang theory is just a theory. it may very well be correct, but it will always remain a mystery. don't get me wrong, i'm not a [religious guy], i'm just pointing out the flaws in your thinking.


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## Wizerzak (May 22, 2011)

Ikki said:
			
		

> If you were so good with common sense you wouldn't have taken the time to make this thread since it won't achieve anything.



My point precisely.


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## DrOctapu (May 22, 2011)

I sort of agree, assuming by logic you mean not being a fucking idiot who sees one thing and assumes another extreme. IE the people who believe that practically anything on the DS means N64/GBA emulators are possible.


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## SifJar (May 22, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> You are looking at it wrong SifJar.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> ...


IMO, yes they are rather illogical. I don't think we can make assumptions about the origins of the universe simply because it exists. That proves nothing, not even that it had a beginning.

EDIT: Please note that I DO believe there was a beginning, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily logical.


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## s4mid4re (May 22, 2011)

Hi everyone said:
			
		

> s4mid4re said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A plane crashing into a building will not 100% make the building fall down, thus it cannot be used to explain logic (to me, at least). I want you to explain and prove how a plane crashing into a building WILL 100% make that building fall down. Then, I will be content and stop asking stupid questions.



Spoiler



yes I AM messing with you


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## Issac (May 22, 2011)

Holy shit, this is a really useless thread. 
Yeah, you're writing a statement with the form of "logic". And a few people haven't learned that yet... So?
From my point of view, you try your hardest to use fancy words and use high level English just to prove to someone that you are so much smarter than everyone here. 
Well, to me you just look like an ass. Sure I understand what you say, and in the same way i've come up with a statement that "If someone disagrees with me, doesn't listen and just keep shouting what they think without taking anyones oppinions into consideration; they most often are communists".
Here, I'm not saying all communists are impossible to argue with, but that most people that I have a hard time arguing with happen to be communists.

Still, what does this topic gain? A test to kick out those who haven't learned logic yet? Wow... 

Also, you "have been a well accomplished math tutor"... at the age of 21? I find that hard to believe. Maybe you have helped your mates out, maybe taught a couple of kids some basic math... but well accomplished math tutor? Yeah right.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

The title explains itself. In the past few days I have seen abundance amounts of users with just horrible logic. It has gotten to the point where they have trolled my online experience at GBAtemp and I have compulsions to correct these users with an angered passion. A common trait I have seen in these posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16. Just so we are all on track, this is logic:

"A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16"

I can bet, with probability of near .9, someone who is between the age 13-16 will read that statement and say, "I am pretty smart, I absolutely know logic, you can't generalize all 13-16 year olds." Here is why you fail, you don't know logic. If you are between the ages 13-16 and take offense of that above statement, you are affirming the consequent (I guess we can use some logical equivalences to turn it into negation of the antecedent but meh). I said a modus ponens statement with, if you are an illogical poster, then with probability near .8 are of the age 13-16. I didn't make any inferences on people between ages 13-16, I made an inference on illogical posters. That's why affirming the consequent is bad logic.

That's why, when I make a suggestion, I'm not going to direct it at people of ages 13-16, I'm going to direct it at illogical posters. Hence, the title explains it all, we need to have a logic test before people can't start posting. I'm am going to blow a headgasket if more no logic posters happen to appear on these forums. 

Make it a simple test for all I care, make it so that you need at least .5 of the problems right, because, natural selection is not doing it's job.


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## Uncle FEFL (May 22, 2011)

Hi everyone said:
			
		

> a theory remains a theory until it is proven that it cannot be proven wrong, which is impossible. the big bang theory is just a theory. it may very well be correct, but it will always remain a mystery. don't get me wrong, i'm not a religious guy, i'm just pointing out the flaws in your thinking.


You didn't even answer my question. Instead of pointing out "flaws in my thinking," try typing a coherent --and logical, because this one is not-- response first.

@everyone: zetta_x is a dumbass that thinks he's better than anyone and everyone. Just ignore him.


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

SifJar, I have always looked up to you because you have always shown great leadership skills. You were one of the members that inspired me to participate on these forums before people considered me a troll. Keep up the awesome work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





---

All I have to say is LMAO!!! You know what is awesome? Bad attention, good attention, when raised to a non subjective level equals a lot of attention. What is bad and what is good is totally subjective as the previous sentence suggests.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> First of all, I'd like to know where you pulled that bullshit "statistic" from.
> 
> Easy, we do a sample based on illogical posts. We can then classify two groups, people from ages 13-16 and people ages other. Notice that each trial is independent of each other as long as we take distinct posters (although there is a small dependence if a stupid post comes from another stupid post), each observation would be bernoulli. A sum of independent bernoulli's would be binomial distribution. We want to estimate the parameter, the true proportion of people who posted illogical things and fall between 13-16. An minimum variance unbiased estimator of this parameter would be the number of successes or the total number of trials or sample proportion. .8 is approximately a guess on the sample proportion who follow this bernoulli trials. Use this thread as an example.
> 
> [email protected]: zetta_x is a dumbass that thinks he's better than anyone and everyone. Just ignore him.



As I have mentioned above, what is better and what is not better is subjective. The fact you think that I think I am better uses your biased subjective thoughts to portray what better is. However, you failed to define what 'better' is thus I can't be applied to a subjective category with no fundamental basis.

If you want to persist that I say I am better in intelligence, I would argue against that. Intelligence is divided up in both quantity and quality. Quantity defines how much education a person has usually measured in the amount of school (but using this as an estimator certainly fails because while I may be working on my Master's degree in Mathematics/Statistics in a few months, there are people who will be in the same position as me but have a greater quantity intelligence).

The other half is quality. I have asperger syndrome. Society literally calls me autistic. What makes me different than most people? I am a numerical genius, numbers run through my head like water flows through a pipe. Going through school I naturally followed a mathematical background which, if you have any mathematical background, is a purely abstract road therefore I am also doing statistics. While grades are horrible predictors of quality education, I have graduated in the top 1% of my class both in high school, community college, and maybe even a 4 year college. I took a class in formal logic, apparently no one else has, the mean grade on the final was 60/110 and standard deviation was about 16. I have pulled off a 108 on that test. Although the class size, and this is especially small for a university class, was about 8, the test followed approximately to a t distribution since the true standard deviation was unknown and small sample sizes assuming each person came from the same population and was normally distributed.

What that means, is I was about 3 standard deviations above the mean and I didn't even bother studying (going a pure mathematical route was more then enough background in logic). I have conditioned myself that I don't need to study or take notes but I can still learn the material better then most people and for that, I feel I'm better quality wise on my education. If you disagree, I don't doubt it, your world is full of biased thoughts with absurd logic (trust me, if you believe in the law, your logic is absurd).

---

You guys have got my thread more then enough attention. My whole purpose of this thread was to make a suggestion, and I am above shocked that people with little logical background participate in the site suggestion forums. I have seen people say, it wouldn't matter blah blah blah, but if there is a will there is a way. I have been reading the GBAtemp forums long before I became a member and I used to have so many people I looked up to. Quickly becoming a member, I realized that there are large handful of GBAtemp users that are just sad and pathetic (this is my own opinion obviously).

I have important shit to do, I don't have time to spoon feed toddlers my opinions and ideas because they lack the quality of intelligence to figure it out themselves. Like I said before, bad attention and good attention all equate to attention, and you guys have given this thread more then enough attention. I knew I had faith in you guys, I didn't even need to think about having to bump up this thread.

Have a great day

---

When I said toddlers, I was not indicating age. I'm taking my peak statistic classes and my professor calls us toddlers, when we do master degree graduate work, he considers us walking, then research and beyond is running. So when I used the word toddler, it was to indicate the users who have no idea what modus ponens was... etc...


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## Fishaman P (May 23, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Fishaman P said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



EDIT: Hey I have aspergers too!  So why don't you go calm down for a couple of hours instead of sitting at your computer all day?
And by the way, nothing's more annoying than a n00b who thinks he's smart.


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## Zetta_x (May 23, 2011)

Lmao, I don't care about your age, although it is a good indicator on how much education you have been through. 

I am a bit ageist. I hate elderly people and how broken they are. That's my opinion. At the same time, I almost have my credentials to be your high school math teacher and within a year and a half to be a college professor. Before you say, you wouldn't make a good teacher; I have been a math tutor for 4 years and I have taught a math session before (my own class) and I have performed as an excellent instructor.

Fishman, I don't know anything about you other than you, but if you don't understand what I am posting, think twice before trying to make an inference about it.
---

OMG your logic fails once again! If you have done a little bit of reading, you would have read that I did private tutoring for a few hours today before I came back. If you saw my screen and what projects I was doing, I could come up with so many counter examples to what you are claiming.


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## Uncle FEFL (May 23, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> Easy, we do a sample based on illogical posts. We can then classify two groups, people from ages 13-16 and people ages other. Notice that each trial is independent of each other as long as we take distinct posters (although there is a small dependence if a stupid post comes from another stupid post), each observation would be bernoulli. A sum of independent bernoulli's would be binomial distribution. We want to estimate the parameter, the true proportion of people who posted illogical things and fall between 13-16. An minimum variance unbiased estimator of this parameter would be the number of successes or the total number of trials or sample proportion. .8 is approximately a guess on the sample proportion who follow this bernoulli trials. Use this thread as an example.I'm not sure why you would take the time to do this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope that when you perish, you feel accomplished. You know, like you've actually done something for the world.


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## Sterling (May 23, 2011)

Hmm, a logic test to sign up for this site is going over board. It's the internet, and  every site gets it's share of the uneducated, extremists, retards and intolerables. I do see where you're going with this though, because it's gotten to a point where I just skim over certain user's posts to see if they have anything useful to say mixed in with the rest of their bullshit. I don't pay attention to age, but rather the way people type. It's usually a great indication of education and/or [in]coherence. Age is not important in the long run because it's just a number. You have to cut some slack to people because learning and growing up is part of life, and not everybody sees thing with the same amount of clarity as you do.

People that listen with their ears, and read with their eyes, and do with their hands tend to learn more than the vocal minority who only know how to talk.


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## KingdomBlade (May 23, 2011)

14 here.

I think I may have to agree slightly with the OP there. The abundance of illogical posters may be higher towards younger age groups than older age groups. People among the higher age groups generally have higher logic, most likely due to higher amounts of education and brain development. However, this is not what he was referring to. If, mathematically, it was correct (I think you have mentioned proficiency in math?) then there's no doubting that. Although the OP couldn't possibly have measured it himself, and it's pretty much just a hypothesis, this is the most accurate we're going to get.

From the way I see it, the post was never really ageist all too much, just that most people were too quick to assume that.

Though I can see why "A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16." could often be confused for "A common trait I have seen in these 13-16 year olds, with probability near .8, are of illogical posters.", the wording is extremely similar and easy to mix up.

However, I don't think that a logic test is necessary. Perhaps something like a simple trivia question could be good, something that's immediately findable on Google, in order to find out if a person has the ability to find answers himself before asking here. I think that dependence on other posters to show them where to go to get their answer is a more prominent problem when it comes to new posters.


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## Sop (May 23, 2011)

I liek mudkipz
I iz logicamal?


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## Nathan Drake (May 23, 2011)

I enjoy how people are trying to define logic. We all view it differently.

Logic comes with age. It may seem like younger posters don't have the logic you desire, but that is because they don't have the life experience yet to back it up. Being on the internet and meeting somebody of a lower age, and expecting them to be on the same level as you is just ludicrous to say the least. In the end, any logic test created would be solely based on the logic of the individual that created it. What if your logic doesn't match their logic? It would just be a cluster of nobody agreeing.

tl;dr
This is dumb; stop whining.

Edit: Just as an add on: I only read the first post and a little bit after. It seems like it would just go in circles anyways.


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## LunaWofl (May 23, 2011)

Aspergers syndrome hmm? Well at least that would explain your fixation on wanting more logic, and alot of your patterns.
*sigh* People (generally), however, are not moved by logic.
Logic has its own set of faults because, despite what many people may conceive about it, it is not, and cannot, be perfect, it has a finite limit as the value for it reaches infinity... maybe...

What I am trying to infer here is that logic is something everyone has, albiet, in different "directions" if you will, sort of like a vector. One might be logical towords one thing and illogical to another, for example, there exist situations where it would be illogical to act logical, sort of like a paradox.
And because of this, having a test on the premise of weeding out those without a certain threshold of logic is an illogical thing to do, seeing as the test in question would, as a result, only measure "logic" from a subjective point of view.

Incidently, I believe you will find that "common sense" is an oxymoron. Another thing I should mention is that statistics can be manipulated very easily, but thats neither here nor there.


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## Zetta_x (May 23, 2011)

KingdomBlade, I admire your ability. Just be careful, because I have noticed that people who show even little intelligence in public highschool are often the most disrespected amongst their peers. One thing I have learned, especially in highschool, reality is more a conditioned illusion, if you want to see something as bad, then that is how you conditioned your reality. Because reality is so subjective, I like to see it as an illusion.

My mind has been warped, not by drugs, maybe a little by alcohol, but mainly because I am stubborn. Like I have mentioned above, reality is more of an illusion, and I have pretty much destroyed a lot of foundations I have grew up in such as moralistic behavior and started fresh from my own observations. As Uncle has pointed out, I have lost nearly all my emotions (I blame my first relationship a few years ago for that) and became a narcissistic monster in most people's opinion. Whether or not that is good is governed how I see things or my illusion. It has gotten to the point where most people would suggest to consider seeing a psychologist. I don't agree because all a psychologist is going to do is try conditionalizing me on societal behavior. They will try convincing me to do illogical things like stopping at stop lights and signs given no one is there and it is red. They will probably try convincing me that murder is wrong when it can be shown that there are some situations where the average society person would consider it ok.

etc... So when I go on the gbatemp boards, it's not that I hate users and am a super troll, it's just that I fail to sympathize with people who display constant bad common sense. As can be seen in this thread, logic is far too complicated in such gory details to require every user to know, but at least common sense needs to be upheld. It gets bad when people can't think for themselves and they must be guided by someone else 24/7.


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## Deleted-236924 (May 25, 2011)

*reads thread title*
*remembers that person who asked if GameCube emulation would be possible on NDS"


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## Uncle FEFL (May 25, 2011)

Zetta_x said:
			
		

> KingdomBlade, I admire your ability. Just be careful, because I have noticed that people who show even little intelligence in public highschool are often the most disrespected amongst their peers. One thing I have learned, especially in highschool, reality is more a conditioned illusion, if you want to see something as bad, then that is how you conditioned your reality. Because reality is so subjective, I like to see it as an illusion.
> 
> My mind has been warped, not by drugs, maybe a little by alcohol, but mainly because I am stubborn. Like I have mentioned above, reality is more of an illusion, and I have pretty much destroyed a lot of foundations I have grew up in such as moralistic behavior and started fresh from my own observations. As Uncle has pointed out, I have lost nearly all my emotions (I blame my first relationship a few years ago for that) and became a narcissistic monster in most people's opinion. Whether or not that is good is governed how I see things or my illusion. It has gotten to the point where most people would suggest to consider seeing a psychologist. I don't agree because all a psychologist is going to do is try conditionalizing me on societal behavior. They will try convincing me to do illogical things like stopping at stop lights and signs given no one is there and it is red. They will probably try convincing me that murder is wrong when it can be shown that there are some situations where the average society person would consider it ok.
> 
> etc... So when I go on the gbatemp boards, it's not that I hate users and am a super troll, it's just that I fail to sympathize with people who display constant bad common sense. As can be seen in this thread, logic is far too complicated in such gory details to require every user to know, but at least common sense needs to be upheld. It gets bad when people can't think for themselves and they must be guided by someone else 24/7.


I'm still curious as to how you conditioned yourself to get maximum grades on tests without studying or doing any work. You don't have to respond to this or my last post, but I'd appreciate it if you responded to this one.


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## Pyrmon (May 25, 2011)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> Zetta_x said:
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Getting a perfect score on a exam without studying isn't really hard. You just need to listen to what the teacher's saying. I never study and always get near perfect or perfect scores on my science tests.


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## Costello (May 25, 2011)

a logic test on sign up ? yeah, I don't know...
you would be surprised at the amount of emails I get from people who can't figure out the current "color test" -- screenshot below:






with so many people failing a test as easy as that... yeah, nah.

on topic: zetta_x, there's nothing despisable about illogical people.
in fact, if you can find the words, you can address such people in a way that they actually understand everything that you're saying. 
the wording matters a lot. I teach at university myself... though not math.
I teach programming to chinese people that speak a terrible english, believe me the words you choose do matter a lot if you want to be understood. But based on your choice of words in this thread it seems that you effectively do not want to be understood.


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## Splych (May 25, 2011)

woah , that color test hurts my eyes .
luckily , i never had to go through that when i signed up ._.


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## Terminator02 (May 25, 2011)

kinda makes my eyes have to focus harder but i can easily see the colors, i'd just have to check the top row

but anyway i agree with costello in that he is trying to make himself impossible to understand and sound smart, what's the point of saying something as a serious suggestion if you're going to cloud it in confusing wording and unknown diction (to the average person)

also as a side note, don't people have to copy down "I will not ask for ROMs" or something like that now days when they sign up?


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## Zetta_x (May 26, 2011)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> I'm still curious as to how you conditioned yourself to get maximum grades on tests without studying or doing any work. You don't have to respond to this or my last post, but I'd appreciate it if you responded to this one.
> 
> I will be sending you a PM shortly
> 
> ...



To be honest, I don't talk too much outside of my math tutoring/teaching or tech job. Whenever I work, I know exactly what to say and how to say it so that people can understand exactly what I am saying. My friends have officially dubbed me, the Socially Awkward Penguin. The main reason is because, the way I type on here is coming straight from my mind because it flows so fluently. I don't have to try to reword things, I rarely go back and re-write things, it's coming straight from my mind and it is how I think all day. The reason why I am called Socially Awkward Penguin is because, and I do go out pretty commonly for social occasions, is because I trip up on my words. I have to think carefully how to word my sentences and because of that my sentences come out awkward. It is not that I can't talk, I communicate perfectly when it comes down to mathematics or electronics (matter of fact, my communication skills when it comes down to math is top notch).

I spend my life observing, I observe human interactions, I observe why things like bad traffic occur, I observe things that many people don't pay attention too. As I am observing, the terminology that is used in this thread, often run through my mind to describe things. I constantly think all day and that's all I do, I observe.

That's the problem for me, there should be nothing despisable when people are illogical. For some strange reason, it annoys me so much when I read a thread discussing something and someone says something like "The playstation is black therefore it must taste like charcoal!" I often get interested in electronics and I read a lot about what is going on and it annoys me when people take an event and butcher it to pieces because of some bad common sense.

While I know a logic test may be a bit too extreme, but maybe a test that involves less logical facts but more common sense. It's one thing to figure out who is a bot or not, but it's another thing if someone registers and they may as well have been a bot because their posts aren't thought out properly.


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## thegame07 (May 26, 2011)

I don't mean to be offensive in anyway to you. I have just read your posts and it just seems you are talking complete shit? and rambling on about nothing?

I get the feeling I would end up hitting you if we where in the same room. I dislike people with your attitude. You seem like you look down on everyone. I would advise you to change your attitude and I hope you don't act like that outside in the "real world" as someone will eventually hurt you. 

I mean no offense with this post but I'm just being honest about how you come across from your posts in this thread.

My observations might be totally wrong about you but in this thread you don't seem to be a nice guy at all.


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## Zetta_x (May 26, 2011)

I can assure you, if you actually knew me, you would be saying the opposite


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## Zetta_x (May 22, 2011)

The title explains itself. In the past few days I have seen abundance amounts of users with just horrible logic. It has gotten to the point where they have trolled my online experience at GBAtemp and I have compulsions to correct these users with an angered passion. A common trait I have seen in these posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16. Just so we are all on track, this is logic:

"A common trait I have seen in these illogical posters, with probability near .8, are of age 13-16"

I can bet, with probability of near .9, someone who is between the age 13-16 will read that statement and say, "I am pretty smart, I absolutely know logic, you can't generalize all 13-16 year olds." Here is why you fail, you don't know logic. If you are between the ages 13-16 and take offense of that above statement, you are affirming the consequent (I guess we can use some logical equivalences to turn it into negation of the antecedent but meh). I said a modus ponens statement with, if you are an illogical poster, then with probability near .8 are of the age 13-16. I didn't make any inferences on people between ages 13-16, I made an inference on illogical posters. That's why affirming the consequent is bad logic.

That's why, when I make a suggestion, I'm not going to direct it at people of ages 13-16, I'm going to direct it at illogical posters. Hence, the title explains it all, we need to have a logic test before people can't start posting. I'm am going to blow a headgasket if more no logic posters happen to appear on these forums. 

Make it a simple test for all I care, make it so that you need at least .5 of the problems right, because, natural selection is not doing it's job.


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## Ace (May 26, 2011)

You seem like a nice enough person to me (like you said, subjective reality IS subjective), although I somewhat disagree with the attitude you used at the beginning of this thread, where you basically hung the posters out for not understanding your sentence.

And I actually do agree with you on having some sort of logical test for registering on forums. _Granted, not on this forum! _GBAtemp is already pretty enormous, and it deals with topics for all ages (some topics dealing with adult-only content, even). It would take massive reforms to make the forum "logical people only".

If any sort of change should be done to the registration, it should be the current anti-bot test. People with normal eyesight can obviously see which colors are missing, pick them out by ticking the boxes, and click proceed. But when I showed this to two of my friends who are color blind, they couldn't complete the test and called it "bollocks". Obviously this might be extreme, but we shouldn't be excluding color blind people (equal cyber-rights).

To best have an anti-bot/illogic test like you described, it should be something that cannot be googled easily, that deals with "interactive" logic. Something mathematical would probably be good... Perhaps something like solving quadratic equations? Or pointing out the gradient in a quadratic equation? Granted, you could solve them using a service like Wolfram Alpha, but who would go through the trouble of typing that? Also, googling these types of questions rarely yields good answers (believe me, as a high school student, I've tried 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

The only problem with this is that we'd lose some of the funniest users we have here. Take Sop and Duskye for example. Oh, and this is not sucking up to them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If we'd favor a cold, logical community over a warm and kooky community, this place would be very different.


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## Zetta_x (May 26, 2011)

Yeah, the tone I took in this thread was more of a serious tone. In reality, I am never serious unless it's my job and even at my job I don't need to be too serious.

People who know me in real life would never be able to figure out that I posted this, just because I never show it (or have reason to show it, this stuff is usually just in my mind). On the forums, I feel a bit more brave.

I understand that it is a bit unfair to give logic tests and the the perspective I was coming from is from a student who has had introductory logic, formal logic (with quantifiers), and meta-logic.

Maybe I was acting on impulse creating this thread considering I neglected to consider how everybody else felt about it.

My goal was to create this thread and obviously lure someone into a logic trap. This would show my point. I didn't mistake, people did fall into the logic trap and, depending on if you notice or not, shown my point. But what was unpredictable was how many people mistook the logic and how hard it was to show them how they were mistaken. Another point I failed to show is why logic was important in a discussion board. This stuff remains subjective and I am entirely biased when I see someone repeatedly make the same logical mistakes.


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## Terminator02 (May 26, 2011)

Ace Faith said:
			
		

> To best have an anti-bot/illogic test like you described, it should be something that cannot be googled easily, that deals with "interactive" logic. Something mathematical would probably be good... Perhaps something like solving quadratic equations? Or pointing out the gradient in a quadratic equation? Granted, you could solve them using a service like Wolfram Alpha, but who would go through the trouble of typing that? Also, googling these types of questions rarely yields good answers (believe me, as a high school student, I've tried
> 
> 
> 
> ...


not everybody has a good education, some lack opportunities and some just aren't math people, a test like that would only really be suitable for an advanced math discussion board or something


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## SifJar (May 26, 2011)

Terminator02 said:
			
		

> Ace Faith said:
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I don't mean any insult by this, but it wouldn't be an advanced maths board. Quadratic equations are relatively basic mathematics. Of course, there are plenty who couldn't do them, and I do not want to insult those people at all, but its simply not "advanced".


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## Deleted-236924 (May 27, 2011)

SifJar said:
			
		

> Terminator02 said:
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Seconded.
Those are the easiest things I've had to do this year.


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## leeday100196 (May 27, 2011)

It'd be good to have a challenge around here, if the logic test is implemented to existing members just as a practice run through. I reckon people should pass a proper examination test to be admitted (such as said logic test), and then have the fun of the temp. That way they prove they are capable of joining. Even if they just filled out a survey on their info (like gaming knowledge, interests, hobbies etc.), then we could have like a "recommended topics" section for each user based on it. I do agree with the logic test though.


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## Zetta_x (May 27, 2011)

I wouldn't even mind if they were questions like: 

"All things that are black taste like charcoal" True or False

"Homebrew always equals piracy" True or False

"Sony sucks, therefore the Playstation Sucks" True or False

Then the bonus question:

"If 3 + 3 = 8 and 2 + 2 = 6, and 6 + 8 = 14, then (2 + 2) + (3 + 3) = 14"

[This statement is true]


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## Costello (May 27, 2011)

Ace Faith said:
			
		

> If any sort of change should be done to the registration, it should be the current anti-bot test. People with normal eyesight can obviously see which colors are missing, pick them out by ticking the boxes, and click proceed. But when I showed this to two of my friends who are color blind, they couldn't complete the test and called it "bollocks". Obviously this might be extreme, but we shouldn't be excluding color blind people (equal cyber-rights).



bollocks.
The test clearly says "if you are color blind just refresh the page until a suitable image is found".
There are like 20 different images that include different colors.
So it's perfectly suited for everyone.


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## Snailface (May 27, 2011)

Costello said:
			
		

> Ace Faith said:
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This is true. I'm colorblind (r/g), but after a couple of screen refreshes I got one I could pass.


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## Zetta_x (May 27, 2011)

Damn those primary colors, you were that close to being completely color blind =P

Costello, I doubt the test has driven anyone interest away. GBA temp has a range of discussions that draws pretty much everyone from a lot of particular fields. I grew up on Mario brothers, I would not let any test no matter how hard it is, to stop in my way of registering.


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## thegame07 (May 27, 2011)

Costello said:
			
		

> Ace Faith said:
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I'm colour blind and I can see it. I know when it comes to being colour blind everyone is diffrent though when it comes to certain colours.


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## leeday100196 (May 27, 2011)

What age group are we aiming at to invite to this forum? I can assume no-one under 10 (or at least, not many) would be interested in this site, so maybe we introduce a logic test that appeals to the grade, say, 7 and above (in Australian curriculum, whatever is roughly at or just below high school). That's when I started getting serious with gaming. And then we can show our maturity with that and some simple mathematics (say, 2x + 1 = 7, x = ?) (once again, that's what I learnt in grade 7. Don't jump on me for it.). Plus the previously mentioned survey, and we're onto something.


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## dib (May 27, 2011)

21 year old poster on video game site enjoys a math class; thinks he has a reservation on all things 'logical'.

Stay tuned for this week's weather forecast.


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## Ace (May 27, 2011)

It would seem I've made a fluke on the anti-bot test. Guess all three of us don't pass basic logic then xD

Regardless, my suggestion of quadratic equations was only to accomodate Zetta's suggestion into something that would be sensible to the internet citizens who want to register here. I understand that there are people who cannot answer those types of questions, and obviously they'd have to be accounted for. But I chose quadratics because they're at an beginners high school level (I'm in 10th grade, did this for like 3 months), and hopefully those users won't be as shallow or "derpy" as many that I have seen on here.


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## Zetta_x (May 27, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> 21 year old poster on video game site enjoys a math class; thinks he has a reservation on all things 'logical'.
> 
> Stay tuned for this week's weather forecast.
> 
> ...



To be honest, I think there are some laws that prevent people under 13 to release personal information and that includes registering for a site (Something I heard a few years ago, don't quote me on that).

Other then that, I have seen some 21+ age people who wouldn't be able to comprehend what common sense even means.

---

Cheese is to Pizza

as

Cream Cheese is to ____
a. Monkey
b. ROMS
c. Playstation 3/ Sony
d. Bagel


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