# Early Sonic 3 prototype found, features major differences to the final game



## Smoker1 (Nov 17, 2019)

Anyone know if there actually IS a Mortal Kombat 2 PSX Beta for NA Region??????
https://gamehacking.org/game/112932


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## Deleted member 506316 (Nov 17, 2019)

Chary said:


> ​
> 
> Previously, Hidden Palace and The Cutting Room Floor announced their "Sonic Month" event, where documentation on never before seen Sonic the Hedgehog prototypes would be unveiled, courtesy of drx. The first handful of prototypes to be shown were of Sonic CD, followed by some early versions of Sonic Chaos and Sonic 2. Today, yet another prototype has been revealed, and this could be the most important one yet. An early build of Sonic 3, dated November 3, 1993, has been dumped, with lots of content to discover within its code.
> 
> ...



Very interested to take a peek and play the ROM, but my moral standards are preventing me from doing so. (｡•́︿•̀｡)


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## eskinner3742 (Nov 17, 2019)

This is a must for me. Sonic 3 was my childhood


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## Deleted member 506316 (Nov 17, 2019)

eskinner3742 said:


> This is a must for me. Sonic 3 was my childhood


I became nothing but Sonic 3.


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## Freezerbomb (Nov 17, 2019)

PineappleGod said:


> Very interested to take a peek and play the ROM, but my moral standards are preventing me from doing so. (｡•́︿•̀｡)


A psychiatrist might help with that.


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## drazenm (Nov 17, 2019)

Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.


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## alexenochs (Nov 17, 2019)

wonder if anyone thats kick ass at rom hacking will take these stages and re-ad them to the finished game PLUS the knuckle sequences basically giving sonic 3 a diffrent ending and the other moves sonic has here aswell


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## FAST6191 (Nov 17, 2019)

I was wondering if this was just going to be before the split into Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles but this is more than that.



PineappleGod said:


> Very interested to take a peek and play the ROM, but my moral standards are preventing me from doing so. (｡•́︿•̀｡)


Because by doing so you are denying Sega the money for Sonic 3 that you already own or could easily buy a copy of?


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## Justinde75 (Nov 17, 2019)

Oh I like the different instruments in Angel Island Act 2


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## The Real Jdbye (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.


I don't know about that. Sonic has a lot of fans. Maybe not as many as Mario though.


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## ChiefReginod (Nov 17, 2019)

The music..! The PC version was actually the original soundtrack the whole time! If you're a YM2612 fanatic like me, this is the most amazing prototype release in at least a decade just based on this alone.

Can't wait to hear the VGM rips.


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## Deleted-236924 (Nov 17, 2019)

That's sick, more interesting than the movie.


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 17, 2019)

I’m pretty sure Air Dash is now the Hyper Sonic move: Hyper Flash

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.


Sonic >>>>>>>>>>>> poop > Mario
Tho..

Only uncult kids will say the opposite


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## AmandaRose (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.


The franchise has sold 105.14 million units at retail worldwide, 52.9 million units, were from North America. 35.24 million of the games sold were from Europe, while 5.17 million of the units sold were in Japan.

How on earth can you claim the sonic franchise is only popular in North America when you look at the European sales figures??


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## Jonna (Nov 17, 2019)

PineappleGod said:


> Very interested to take a peek and play the ROM, but my moral standards are preventing me from doing so. (｡•́︿•̀｡)


There aren't any morals involved with this, unless you redistribute this for money. This is not a product for sale, and if you somehow had police confiscate your computer for having it and they question you, you should counter "where can I pay for a copy of this specific prototype of Sonic the Hedgehog 3 that was never sold anywhere?"


Also I've been watching all the livestreams, and I did not expect this at the end. I thought the two prototypes late in development was all we had for so many years. To see such an early development prototype was found is just god damn amazing - to the point I didn't even think what I was watching was real.


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## BlueFox gui (Nov 17, 2019)

i want zuber knucliz


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## Silent_Gunner (Nov 17, 2019)

So, does this have the music composed by the Smooth Criminal himself!?


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## Deleted User (Nov 17, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> So, does this have the music composed by the Smooth Criminal himself!?



Disney plus sucks for removing stark raving dad


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## Apache Thunder (Nov 17, 2019)

Anyone remember that odd line of rings embedded into the wall above a cave area of 3 power up boxes near the end of act 2 of Angel Island?  (note this was fixed in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Have to play Sonic 3 stand a lone to see this)

Looks like this prototype solves where those came from. Same line of rings appears to be there, but the whole section where the power up boxes isn't there. Looks like they changed the layout of this area and forgot to remove the old placement of the rings.


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## pustal (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.



I think you live in a parallel world, man...


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## Jonna (Nov 17, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> So, does this have the music composed by the Smooth Criminal himself!?



Nope. The crazy twist is that every one thought the Sonic & Knuckles Collection used some general brand quickly-tossed-together MIDI songs for the music as they couldn't use the Michael Jackson music, but it turns out that music is in this prototype (sounding new for the first time as it uses the Genesis instrumentation instead of a PC's soundcard generic PC sound). So, this whole time we've actually been hearing prototype music! It also helps establish that he was involved, and brought on later to score some tracks.

It's hard to still establish why the tracks were added, and the credits not mentioning him, though. His allegations were running before this build came out, and only a month later did it get heated up with his sister testifying against him, so that seems such an odd and short time to add music, only to have the credit retracted. Then again, considering the extremely short development time they had for this, and seeing the state of how incomplete this is for a game to come out only 4 months later, it looks like some decisions were made quite rash.


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## Sakitoshi (Nov 17, 2019)

all I have to say is that that gameplay is painful to watch.
and it also bothers me that the sound emulation isn't on point (no lowpass filter, those rings sound too sharp), but I'm nitpicking too much I guess.
otherwise, nice discovery.

EDIT: I stand corrected. the sound emulation is on point, my headphones confirmed it for me.


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## Jonna (Nov 17, 2019)

Sakitoshi said:


> all I have to say is that that gameplay is painful to watch.
> and it also bothers me that the sound emulation isn't on point (no lowpass filter, those rings sound too sharp), but I'm nitpicking too much I guess.
> otherwise, nice discovery.


Nitpicking on extremely early development on a rushed game - yeah. You aren't wrong, and you can add on that the sound chip is constantly crying throughout the game, but that's the beauty of seeing these prototypes and how they evolved eventually to the final product from these early stages.


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## Glyptofane (Nov 17, 2019)

Jonna said:


> It's hard to still establish why the tracks were added, and the credits not mentioning him, though.


I was reading about The Simpsons episode Stark Raving Dad recently and according to that, MJ voiced the lines in the episode, but they used an impersonator to sing Happy Birthday Lisa even though MJ allegedly wrote the song. He wasn't credited for any of that either. Supposedly, his record contract wouldn't allow him to do anything without their approval/setting it up, and I guess singing the song would be an even bigger breach for him than just doing the lines? Anyway, I would imagine the Sonic 3 situation was similar to that.


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## Sakitoshi (Nov 17, 2019)

Jonna said:


> Nitpicking on extremely early development on a rushed game - yeah. You aren't wrong, and you can add on that the sound chip is constantly crying throughout the game, but that's the beauty of seeing these prototypes and how they evolved eventually to the final product from these early stages.


nah, I know I can't expect perfect results. but I though the sound emulation was too crisp while a real genesis has a lowpass filter going on (that emulators usually leave off by default) and slightly muffles the sound to hide the imperfections of the chip.
turns out I put my headphones on and it sounded like it should, so I was wrong about that.
the guy that was playing though isn't too familiar with sonic or the physics are really fucked up to constantly bump into hazards and enemies like he does.


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## James_ (Nov 17, 2019)

This is incredible to see. It's weird yet interesting to see Sonic 2 sprites in Sonic 3 and all that stuff. It obviously looks a bit rushed in some places, but imagine if this was the final product. Just imagine what a world we would've lived in.  To be honest it wouldn't be all that different


Also, Sonic on a surfboard is probably one of the best things I've seen all year


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## raxadian (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.



Sonic is popular in the UK and France. In fact Sonic is freaking popular in France, even more so than in the USA.



Jonna said:


> It's hard to still establish why the tracks were added, and the credits not mentioning him, though. His allegations were running before this build came out, and only a month later did it get heated up with his sister testifying against him, so that seems such an odd and short time to add music, only to have the credit retracted. Then again, considering the extremely short development time they had for this, and seeing the state of how incomplete this is for a game to come out only 4 months later, it looks like some decisions were made quite rash.



The Sega Genesis actually had a quite decent sound for a 16 bit system but the music has to be changed to save space  and Michael didn't like the end result so he asked for his name to be removed.   He was probably expecting something that sounded as great at the Moonwalker Arcade game but Sonic 3 wasn't a Sega CD game and so space had to be saved. That or legal problems.


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## sj33 (Nov 17, 2019)

Don't feed the trolls.

The most interesting thing about this prototype is that it contains the alternate music for Carnival Night and Ice Cap before they were swapped out with the Michael Jackson tracks. These were previously only used in the 1996 PC release. Since it is those tracks preventing Sega from being able to re-release the game, Sega should really just use these in future releases.


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## Graxer (Nov 17, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I don't know about that. Sonic has a lot of fans. Maybe not as many as Mario though.


Also, Sonic is even more popular in Europe than the US. It is true that Sonic isn't big in Japan though.

Its just a troll trolling. If it isn't, they need to get their facts straight.


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## AirbusX (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.



*I thank god Sonic was never Mario!* If you dislike Sonic so much, why waste time posting your meaningless opinion on a post about Sonic. Go get laid or something, probably not possible I imagine. 

Anyway, this is a fantastic find!!! I hope we get to play the ROM soon!


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## sj33 (Nov 17, 2019)

As I said, don't feed the troll. There's only one reason why a person would say they dislike Sonic in a Sonic thread.


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## Graxer (Nov 17, 2019)

AirbusX said:


> Anyway, this is a fantastic find!!! I hope we get to play the ROM soon!


You already can! The download link is at the top of this page! 
https://hiddenpalace.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3_(Nov_3,_1993_prototype)


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## Teletron1 (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.



You sure about that ? Sonic is Sega's mascot and he had enough popularity to get his own cartoon played around the world and now is getting his movie ,he has made billions. It's also the one character not owned by Nintendo that has appeared with Super Mario and the Nintendo brand the most  Respect


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 17, 2019)

Teletron1 said:


> You sure about that ? Sonic is Sega's mascot and he had enough popularity to get his own cartoon played around the world and now is getting his movie ,he has made billions. It's also the one character not owned by Nintendo that has appeared with Super Mario and the Nintendo brand the most  Respect


Sonic got 4 cartoons if I remember well..

SatAM, Sonic Underground, Sonic X, Sonic Boom


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## Jokey_Carrot (Nov 17, 2019)

E


drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.


Europeans: what the fuck is a Mario


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## sj33 (Nov 17, 2019)

NeoSlyde said:


> Sonic got 4 cartoons if I remember well..
> 
> SatAM, Sonic Underground, Sonic X, Sonic Boom


Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, too.


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 17, 2019)

sj33 said:


> Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, too.


SatAM = Adventures of Sonic lol


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## DaFixer (Nov 17, 2019)

Great find!


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## sj33 (Nov 17, 2019)

NeoSlyde said:


> SatAM = Adventures of Sonic lol


SatAM is a completely different series, albeit made at the same time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Sonic_the_Hedgehog

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(TV_series)


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## NeoSlyde (Nov 17, 2019)

sj33 said:


> SatAM is a completely different series, albeit made at the same time.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Sonic_the_Hedgehog
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(TV_series)



Ohhh i seeeee
So SatAM is the serious one and Adventures of Sonic is the less serious/fun one...


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## raxadian (Nov 17, 2019)

sj33 said:


> Don't feed the trolls.
> 
> The most interesting thing about this prototype is that it contains the alternate music for Carnival Night and Ice Cap before they were swapped out with the Michael Jackson tracks. These were previously only used in the 1996 PC release. Since it is those tracks preventing Sega from being able to re-release the game, Sega should really just use these in future releases.



I think if it was just two tracks they would have switched them already.  I think the lawsuit basically bans them from using any version of Sonic 3 until royalties are paid.


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## WeedZ (Nov 17, 2019)

The first few minutes is absolutely painful watching this person play.


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## Lostbhoy (Nov 17, 2019)

Haha, totally agree but worth it none the less.

I'll never forget swapping my snes with a school friends 'megadrive' for a few days just to play sonic 3 and he'd had a week. I'd never even played it yet took it home and completed the whole game in my first shot. Missing a few chaos emeralds right enough but that was the first and last time i ever played sonic 3! Imo sonic 2 is the daddy of them all!


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## raxadian (Nov 17, 2019)

Lostbhoy said:


> Haha, totally agree but worth it none the less.
> 
> I'll never forget swapping my snes with a school friends 'megadrive' for a few days just to play sonic 3 and he'd had a week. I'd never even played it yet took it home and completed the whole game in my first shot. Missing a few chaos emeralds right enough but that was the first and last time i ever played sonic 3! Imo sonic 2 is the daddy of them all!



You missed playing the lock in games then.  

I admit I love Sonic 2 the most.


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## Idaho (Nov 17, 2019)

drazenm said:


> Have no idea who at all cares about sonic. Sonic was never Mario nor it will ever be, maybe Sonic was popular in the US but nothing at all world wide. Characterless character.



And we care about your opinion because?
Sonic is a good game, its popularity does not matter, you sound like a silly 12 year old who wants to compare things for the sake of it...


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## RocketRobz (Nov 17, 2019)

DUSTINODELLOFFICIAL has uploaded real hardware captures of the prototype music.


Personally, I prefer the prototype versions of the Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base music, over the final/MJ versions.
I'm also hoping to see more protos in the future.


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## AirbusX (Nov 17, 2019)

Robz8 said:


> DUSTINODELLOFFICIAL has uploaded real hardware captures of the prototype music.
> 
> 
> Personally, I prefer the prototype versions of the Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base music, over the final/MJ versions.
> I'm also hoping to see more protos in the future.




Really!? I have a hard time liking them... I guess it just sounds so different I can't separate the final MJ versions to these.


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## CeeDee (Nov 17, 2019)

Yoooo this is incredible. The PC music was the real deal the whole time?


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## RocketRobz (Nov 17, 2019)

AirbusX said:


> Really!? I have a hard time liking them... I guess it just sounds so different I can't separate the final MJ versions to these.


I understand.
The MJ versions are good too, but to me, the proto tracks fit with the rest of Sonic 3's music.


CeeDee said:


> Yoooo this is incredible. The PC music was the real deal the whole time?


Apparently so!


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## BlueFox gui (Nov 17, 2019)

WeedZ said:


> The first few minutes is absolutely painful watching this person play.


lmao, my brother said the same but in the entire stream


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## WeedZ (Nov 17, 2019)

BlueFox gui said:


> lmao, my brother said the same but in the entire stream


I couldn't make it that far


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## PedroxBest (Nov 18, 2019)

Chary said:


> ​
> 
> Previously, Hidden Palace and The Cutting Room Floor announced their "Sonic Month" event, where documentation on never before seen Sonic the Hedgehog prototypes would be unveiled, courtesy of drx. The first handful of prototypes to be shown were of Sonic CD, followed by some early versions of Sonic Chaos and Sonic 2. Today, yet another prototype has been revealed, and this could be the most important one yet. An early build of Sonic 3, dated November 3, 1993, has been dumped, with lots of content to discover within its code.
> 
> ...



it looks finished tho


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## Yoni Arousement (Nov 18, 2019)

Am I the only one who prefers the Nov 3. 1993 Prototype/Sonic & Knuckles Collection Music over the Music that sound like knockoffs of 80's songs such as Ice Cap Zone's "Hard Times" by the Jetzons and Launch Base Zone's "I can't wait" by Nu Shooz?


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## supergamer368 (Nov 18, 2019)

I always love it when prototypes are dumped. It's cool to see the development process and i hope more prototypes exist and are found.


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## medoli900 (Nov 18, 2019)

ChiefReginod said:


> The music..! The PC version was actually the original soundtrack the whole time! If you're a YM2612 fanatic like me, this is the most amazing prototype release in at least a decade just based on this alone.
> 
> Can't wait to hear the VGM rips.


https://mojo.highquality.rip/2019/11/launch-base-93/


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## the_randomizer (Nov 18, 2019)

medoli900 said:


> https://mojo.highquality.rip/2019/11/launch-base-93/


It's not in the YM2612 soundfont though..


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## CeeDee (Nov 18, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> It's not in the YM2612 soundfont though..


That's because it's a _High Quality Rip._


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## James_ (Nov 18, 2019)

Gonna play this on my 2DS XL later because why not


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## Deleted User (Nov 18, 2019)

I've waited my entire life for a playable proto, thank god we've got one.


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## LuigiXHero (Nov 19, 2019)

To those hating on DRX's gameplay, he isn't just playing Sonic 3 he's trying to show off everything different, obviously if you just want him to rush to the end like a normal play through he is gonna miss a ton of stuff.


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## Vivisector (Nov 21, 2019)

PineappleGod said:


> Very interested to take a peek and play the ROM, but my moral standards are preventing me from doing so. (｡•́︿•̀｡)



Its an unreleased prototype, and as long as you own a legit copy of Sonic 3 I don't see any moral issue with it. If you don't you could always buy a digital version of it to ease your conscience.


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## CeeDee (Nov 21, 2019)

Vivisector said:


> If you don't you could always buy a digital version of it to ease your conscience.


Not like it's the easiest to do so nowadays, it hasn't had a digital release in ages.


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## LuigiXHero (Nov 21, 2019)

It's on steam though

https://store.steampowered.com/app/71162/Sonic_3__Knuckles/

Then once you get that just subscribe to this workshop rom to get the proto:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1914966637&searchtext=

If you don't want to use that emulator then the roms are just normal roms in your steam folder.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 21, 2019)

CeeDee said:


> Not like it's the easiest to do so nowadays, it hasn't had a digital release in ages.


?
https://marketplace.xbox.com/en-gb/Product/Sonic-The-Hedgehog-3/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584109a3
https://store.steampowered.com/app/71162/Sonic_3__Knuckles/
https://gg.deals/game/sonic-3-and-knuckles/
https://www.game.co.uk/en/sonic-3-and-knuckles-293353
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/sega-mega-drive-and-genesis-classics


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## Vivisector (Nov 21, 2019)

CeeDee said:


> Not like it's the easiest to do so nowadays, it hasn't had a digital release in ages.


 Its on Steam as well as PS3 and Xbox 360, and I'm pretty sure its in the Sega Genesis Classics Collection on PS4, Xbox One, and Switch.


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## YukidaruPunch (Nov 21, 2019)

PineappleGod said:


> Very interested to take a peek and play the ROM, but my moral standards are preventing me from doing so. (｡•́︿•̀｡)


If it helps: the device you're using to post this was probably involved with sweatshop work at some point during its assembly, the clothes you wear might have been involved with either sweatshop work or even slavery, the food you eat - provided you're omnivore - was probably involved with animal cruelty and torture at some point, the car you drive (provided you drive a car) runs on oil farmed from countries driven to civil wars for exploitation and pretty much every tech company you might support purposefully makes millions (or even billions, if you're using Windows or iOS) off of work from much less well-payed workers (and sweatshops as well).

I can understand your morals withstanding you from downloading a prototype ROM off of the internet, but I believe not only Sega wouldn't mind and that you can rest assured most tech companies and big corporations wouldn't mind doing much, much worse. One of the main things under consumer-driven capitalism is that it throws on the consumer the responsability of being righteous while not being righteous at all.


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## CeeDee (Nov 21, 2019)

Vivisector said:


> and I'm pretty sure its in the Sega Genesis Classics Collection on PS4, Xbox One, and Switch.


Nope to this one - it's not been rereleased since about 2012 due to music issues.



FAST6191 said:


> ?
> https://marketplace.xbox.com/en-gb/Product/Sonic-The-Hedgehog-3/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584109a3
> https://store.steampowered.com/app/71162/Sonic_3__Knuckles/
> https://gg.deals/game/sonic-3-and-knuckles/
> ...



Most of those are a (the same?) PC release, and the Xbox release originates from 360. Not sure if backcomp works on it. It does, so you can play it on Xbox One as well.
You can't buy it on, say, PS4, Switch, or mobile. It's definitely possible to get ahold of, because they're lucky they haven't had to take down the Steam copy or the Xbox copy. But it just hasn't been officially released on this generation of consoles.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 21, 2019)

CeeDee said:


> Most of those are a (the same?) PC release, and the Xbox release originates from 360. Not sure if backcomp works on it. It does, so you can play it on Xbox One as well.
> You can't buy it on, say, PS4, Switch, or mobile. It's definitely possible to get ahold of, because they're lucky they haven't had to take down the Steam copy or the Xbox copy. But it just hasn't been officially released on this generation of consoles.



If the objective was to give Sega some money (or dodge the second hand market woes) to in turn dodge some anguish over "pirating" a prototype for a decades old game then you could happily do that. No need to download it as part of that.


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## Deleted member 506316 (Nov 22, 2019)

YukidaruPunch said:


> If it helps: the device you're using to post this was probably involved with sweatshop work at some point during its assembly, the clothes you wear might have been involved with either sweatshop work or even slavery, the food you eat - provided you're omnivore - was probably involved with animal cruelty and torture at some point, the car you drive (provided you drive a car) runs on oil farmed from countries driven to civil wars for exploitation and pretty much every tech company you might support purposefully makes millions (or even billions, if you're using Windows or iOS) off of work from much less well-payed workers (and sweatshops as well).
> 
> I can understand your morals withstanding you from downloading a prototype ROM off of the internet, but I believe not only Sega wouldn't mind and that you can rest assured most tech companies and big corporations wouldn't mind doing much, much worse. One of the main things under consumer-driven capitalism is that it throws on the consumer the responsability of being righteous while not being righteous at all.


(・o・)


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## Sjp2Coffee (Jan 4, 2020)

Don't forget about the Drop Dash!


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