# Healthcare in the USA is a joke and I'll tell you why



## PuNKeMoN (Dec 20, 2019)

Let me start by saying I reap the benefits of Capitalism, and there is much it has done for fostering human development.

However, *sometimes making a buck gets in the way of destroys the true purpose of an industry.*  Medicine comes to mind. There's no profits in curing illness, so it is treated instead. This seems like the mindset of a sociopath rather than that of someone who wishes to help people. Yet here Americans are, ignorant of any better way.

Health insurance is another bilking of the American people. The idea is if one pays into this system, the company will provide funding in the event of an emergency or health crisis. Unfortunately, the company decides what they help pay for. Oh, and in the USA, having health insurance is required by law. Either one pays an exorbitant amount for coverage from whatever company their employer provides, or they can find their own. Lower income families can file for benefits from their respective state. I myself have been in a situation where my paycheck wasn't enough to cover either the insurance my employer partnered with or private insurance, yet the state told me I made too much to qualify for public aid.

Ideally, having insurance should alleviate or absolve one from financial responsibility if they visit a doctor or hospital or need a prescription. It doesn't exactly work that way though. Oftentimes the payments a person makes towards insurance equal the payment the insurance makes on a medical bill. I've had a hospital bill where my insurance paid absolutely nothing.  So, what's the point of having insurance then? Oh, right... Americans who don't have health insurance are breaking a law.

I've stumbled upon a fallacy here. How can one be a good consumer and feed the greedy system of Capitalism for an adequate lifetime if they have poor health and die at an early age? Wouldn't it benefit the economy if all members were able to work while blindly consuming and living to a ripe old age? Isn't that the major goal of Capitalism? Wouldn't some sort of healthcare plan that isn't a business make such a thing possible?

In the end, some industries ought not to be a business, and healthcare is one of them. How long until the greater portion of the US populace understands this?


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 20, 2019)

America always have a problem with healthcare issues. I will never understand America system about healthcare problem. I don't have a problem with Portugal healthcare system.. Good healthcare system.


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## IncredulousP (Dec 20, 2019)

It's because a good portion of the people here are stupid, uneducated, and easily manipulated.


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 20, 2019)

IncredulousP said:


> It's because a good portion of the people here are stupid, uneducated, and easily manipulated.



I heard you, I know.


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## ClassyDragon (Dec 20, 2019)

The healthcare system here has been a bad experience for me personally. I have insurance and yet I still have nearly had to pay full price for an emergency procedure because my insurance refused to.
I know plenty of people who can't afford healthcare and would probably be screwed if they had the same emergency I had. It's quite pathetic.


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## Xzi (Dec 20, 2019)

Entirely too many people have never once traveled outside the US, so they have no idea how much we're getting completely fucked over in regards to healthcare.  The UK is soon to share in our suffering too.  Sorry in advance.


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## Super.Nova (Dec 20, 2019)

Where I live, healthcare is completely free and the government would pay your bill if you had to be treated in a private hospital.
The major problem with that is people stopped caring for their own health and would deliberately do harmful things to themselves.

I work in a trauma center and people (I refuse to call them patients as they are healthier than me!) often come asking for X-Rays they don't need.
Whenever I try to convince them to forego the unnecessary dose of radiation, they literally tell me to buzz off as if it wasn't my job to do so.
People with diabetes and plethora of other chronic diseases don't take their medications and pay a visit to ER with a boatload of complications of the same diseases only to return later due to the same complications because they didn't give a fudge on their earlier visit.

Forcing someone to pay for their health is a good thing as it would make them pay more attention.
True accidents or things of which could never be avoided are an entirely different story that I believe should be treated for free, at least for humane reasons, as healthcare is not a business.


P.S.: I'm obligated by law to follow patients' demands or otherwise would be liable for punishment.


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## KingVamp (Dec 20, 2019)

I think most people do actually understand, but it just too much corruption at the top right now.



Xzi said:


> Entirely too many people have never once traveled outside the US


We have the internet. You don't have to travel to know there are better healthcare systems.


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## morvoran (Dec 20, 2019)

Healthcare in America does suck which is why Trump is trying to fix it.  Unfortunately, we have a party of power hungry idiots who would rather waste our/their time, taxes, etc trying to impeach him instead of fixing what needs fixing.   Trump has already signed executive orders forcing hospitals to be transparent in their pricing which means you will know before hand if you will get gouged by that hospital.  This way, you can shop around for the cheapest surgeries and bring competition into the healthcare market.  His admin is also trying to work on lowering prescription costs. 

If the do nothing democrats would work with him on actual policies rather than running a fake impeachment circus, maybe we can have actual "change we can believe in" in America which no other administration has done before.

I think if the democrats would drop their own government provided healthcare and had to use the ACA health insurance system, which they thought was so good enough for us that they would not allow anybody to know what was in it until it passed, I'm sure our Healthcare system would be a top priority to them.


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## PuNKeMoN (Dec 20, 2019)

morvoran said:


> ...This way, you can shop around for the cheapest surgeries and bring competition into the healthcare market.  His admin is also trying to work on lowering prescription costs..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Xzi (Dec 20, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> We have the internet. You don't have to travel to know there are better healthcare systems.


The internet is too often used by people for the sole purpose of reflecting their own opinions back at them.  It's amazing how many idiots I've seen declaring that our system has to be the best in the world simply because it's the most expensive.

Talking to people of other nations face-to-face is life experience that can't truly be replicated by the internet.  Of course, I'm aware that there are economic factors which prohibit a lot of people from doing that, but healthcare costs loom large among those factors, so it's all connected.


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## morvoran (Dec 20, 2019)

PuNKeMoN said:


> In an emergency situation the luxury of shopping around isn't an option.


 No, but bringing competition into the healthcare market for non-emergency procedures can lower overall costs which will make emergency situations cheaper.


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## Lacius (Dec 20, 2019)

morvoran said:


> Healthcare in America does suck which is why Trump is trying to fix it.


This would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Trump is seeking, among other things, to remove pre-existing conditions protections, to make it harder to get insurance through the ACA exchanges, and to make it harder to get insurance through Medicaid. These things aside, there is no such thing as a Republican plan for health care, since the ACA was the Republican plan.


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## Xzi (Dec 20, 2019)

Lacius said:


> This would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Trump is seeking, among other things, to remove pre-existing conditions protections, to make it harder to get insurance through the ACA exchanges, and to make it harder to get insurance through Medicaid. These things aside, there is no such thing as a Republican plan for health care, since the ACA was the Republican plan.


Yep, the ACA was a compromise, it's basically Romneycare.  Not a single other Republican has presented any sort of healthcare plan.  They've been saying they're "working on it" for like eight years now.


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 20, 2019)

ClassyDragon said:


> The healthcare system here has been a bad experience for me personally. I have insurance and yet I still have nearly had to pay full price for an emergency procedure because my insurance refused to.
> I know plenty of people who can't afford healthcare and would probably be screwed if they had the same emergency I had. It's quite pathetic.



No wonder America sucks, sorry. Good thing I am going back to Portugal soon even thought I am dual citizens. Been here for about 40 years. Not happy here. Crazy America.


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## ClassyDragon (Dec 20, 2019)

azoreseuropa said:


> No wonder America sucks, sorry. Good thing I am going back to Portugal soon even thought I am dual citizens. Been here for about 40 years. Not happy here. Crazy America.


I can't blame you. I love America but our healhcare system is in need of massive reform. I can't imagine myself living somewhere else but I worry everyday about having another emergency, one where life and death could be determined by my insurance's decision to cover me. It's sad to see other countries have such good implementations of it while people around me have to ration insulin or other medications to not go bankrupt


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 20, 2019)

ClassyDragon said:


> I can't blame you. I love America but our healhcare system is in need of massive reform. I can't imagine myself living somewhere else but I worry everyday about having another emergency, one where life and death could be determined by my insurance's decision to cover me. It's sad to see other countries have such good implementations of it while people around me have to ration insulin or other medications to not go bankrupt




Yeah. Thats alright. Not only healthcare issues here but cost of living here is higher than in my country. Thats my reasons why I am fed up with here. Tax here is VERY expensive.. much higher than my country. 

And I missed my country a lot and my culture. I don't liked America's culture. Very different and too many snobs here. In my country, affectionate and everyone always say good morning even at the bars and restaurants. They greets each others. And many more. Not the same in here. Here is dangerous. Shooting on the news all the time here. 

Again, not only the healthcare problems here but cost of living issues here as well.


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## RationalityIsLost101 (Dec 20, 2019)

Super.Nova said:


> Where I live, healthcare is completely free and the government would pay your bill if you had to be treated in a private hospital.
> The major problem with that is people stopped caring for their own health and would deliberately do harmful things to themselves.
> 
> I work in a trauma center and people (I refuse to call them patients as they are healthier than me!) often come asking for X-Rays they don't need.
> ...



As someone who is also familiar with patients in the ER, much of your complaints are the same here in the US, despite that we appear to differ on what is an acceptable method of payment for healthcare services (ie taxation for nationalized healthcare vs privatized insurance w/ co-payments).

Patients have rights here as well, as long as they contain the capacity to make an informed and voluntary decision, they will dictate their healthcare choices. They will be provided with enough information to make an informed decision but we will let them choose. I note we are obligated to provide full information about what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if no treatment occurs. Although its subjective how one defines reasonable alternative treatments and I know many who only provide alternatives when requested and are much more authoritarian with their patients care.  

In my opinion co-payments just put a paywall in front of services like primary care which can prevent costly ER visits and hospitalizations if patients are counseled and educated to be proactive. However, we (in the US) bill services in a manner that is fee for service instead of a different measure which doesn't reward physicians that spend the extra 10-15min per patient. Hospitals have minimum patients served and they will fire physicians who aren't profitable enough. Cow-herding is a term I use privately to describe it. While there have been recent efforts to reward primary care initiative and penalize readmission to hospitals for repetitive chief complaint. People find ways to fake the paperwork to circumvent such accountability.

The difference is people who are on private plans are likely:

1. Not on medicaid/medicare (ie of a certain age group that requires less care for chronic issues).
2. To be employed and thus are less likely to be impoverished.
3. With a higher socioeconomic status and obtain a higher literacy in regarding healthcare matters.

I'm not trying to oversimplify this conversation as there is so much more depth available to introduce and discuss but am trying to stay concise as to not get lost on a tangent.

TLDR: Just wanting to portray that Physicians (healthcare providers) in America have equal struggles providing quality care and educating our patients. They also retain the freedom to choose what happens to their bodies and at times make choices that are disheartening.


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## Super.Nova (Dec 20, 2019)

RationalityIsLost101 said:


> As someone who is also familiar with patients in the ER, much of your complaints are the same here in the US, despite that we appear to differ on what is an acceptable method of payment for healthcare services (ie taxation for nationalized healthcare vs privatized insurance w/ co-payments).
> 
> Patients have rights here as well, as long as they contain the capacity to make an informed and voluntary decision, they will dictate their healthcare choices. They will be provided with enough information to make an informed decision but we will let them choose. I note we are obligated to provide full information about what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if no treatment occurs. Although its subjective how one defines reasonable alternative treatments and I know many who only provide alternatives when requested and are much more authoritarian with their patients care.
> 
> ...



That is exactly how a paid service is supposed to be and I wholeheartedly agree with this method "except for true emergency cases ofwhich not caused by neglect."
I'm well known among many circles of non-legible patients (emigrants not covered by government healthcare program) to go the extra mile and I'm happy to do my job the best I could.
What I'm not happy about is anybody willfully throwing away their health and demand that you patch them up like new whenever they feel like it.

And in regards to the "whenever they feel like it" part, I've often seen patients brought to ER by ambulance only to find their onset of complaint started a couple of months ago.
With further history taking, it becomes apparent that they have the ulterior motive of acquiring a sick leave.
They either didn't care to get it treated sooner or at least kept it as an open ticket to get sick leaves whenever they want and they never face the paywall for their decisions as they'd pay more attention to their health.
Also, sick leaves here free you of any legal issues (traffic fines, court hearings and even accusations for killing someone).

Luckily, it's planned to change the whole system to divert the entire healthcare system to the Civic and private sectors equally through insurance companies.
Sure, everyone will be getting their health insurance for free, but many wouldn't due to outstanding amount of traffic violations and any other legal issues (some going up to $500k in traffic violations).
Also, insurance companies wouldn't pay for the aforementioned unnecessary X-Ray to accommodate someone's comfort zone and would have to pay for it.

Even then, the problem is the ethical application of an insurance provider forcing someone to pay for anything that should be covered by the insurance as often happens in the US.
I choose to do my best job either way but it'll leave much out of my hand to truly help the sick and needy.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Dec 20, 2019)

Eliminating the Chargemaster and the practices associated with compiling and enforcing it would certainly help a lot towards improving things. You know, provided something _reasonable_ gets implemented in place, not that I'd trust that to happen right now.


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## Lacius (Dec 20, 2019)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Eliminating the Chargemaster and the practices associated with compiling and enforcing it would certainly help a lot towards improving things. You know, provided something _reasonable_ gets implemented in place, not that I'd trust that to happen right now.


This and Medicare for All would drastically improve the state of healthcare in the United States.


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## Deleted User (Dec 20, 2019)

There are some important factors people either forget or fail to realize which helps to explain why a Nation such as the USA could never have Universal Healthcare.

1. *Population Size*
The USA Has a total Population of 329,000,0000+ which far exceeds the Population for any of the Average Nations within the list of all Nations with Universal Healthcare. 

2.* Quality of Care & Technology*
The saying "You Get What You Pay For" very much applies to Health Care, contrary to popular belief; So much so in fact, that wealthier individuals in the very same nations listed, are known to partake in Medical Tourism to the US in order to take advantage of the higher Quality of Care. Suffice it to say, there is no way the USA could possibly afford to provide "Free" Healthcare at it's standard level for all 329,000,000+ Citizens (And counting, not even including Illegal Immigrants).

3*. Military*
Here is a hard truth, a Nation ceases to exist without a Military & Strong Borders; this is actually a  large part of the reason the Soviet Union could not possibly keep up with us and ultimately fell 30+ Years ago. Incidentally, A lot of the nations on that list receive foreign aid from us, often in the form of Military aid, which allows them to divert the funds that would ordinarily go to their own Military towards programs like Universal Healthcare. There is simply no parallel where Nations contribute more than what we have provided them with, much less to the level sufficient enough to cover our entire Military's expenses (Which is necessarily is the largest in the world because of our significance as a Superpower Nation & to protect the Sheer Population & landmass size, etc). I would absolutely love to see the shit show that would ensue if America finally pulled foreign aid from these Nations, watch their attitude towards Socialism change overnight or continue down their path of self destruction & Get Swallowed up by a larger Nation (Probably Russia or China).
​I could go on, but I think I covered the biggest points of contention regarding this issue & Hopefully I will have inspired at least one reader to be more critical instead of just accepting common Narratives.


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## sarkwalvein (Dec 20, 2019)

To be honest, I really like the health care system in Germany.
I don't mean people shouldn't be charged in some way, but as I see it the American system has an opportunistic vulture behavior, more like Mafia/Yakuza/Loan sharks.

PS: also, I see in this conversations usually people that abuse the system are brought up, but to be honest that seems to me as a feeble excuse to justify the abuse, as the system usually abuses the people that do not abuse the system.

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LonelyPhantom said:


> There are some important factors people either forget or fail to realize which helps to explain why a Nation such as the USA could never have Universal Healthcare.
> 
> 1. *Population Size*
> The USA Has a total Population of 329,000,0000+ which far exceeds the Population for any of the Average Nations within the list of all Nations with Universal Healthcare.
> ...


1. Take the way lower population per square meter, or quite bigger per capita GDP of America, and compare that to, say, the ones of Germany... what do they do with the excess resources in America then? (PS: Germany has around 83M people, that is around 4 times less than America, but it's land area is 27 times smaller)

2. I don't think the quality leaves anything to desire here.

3. I don't think that would make a better health system prohibitive, really.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 20, 2019)

The cost of health care is entirely the fault of the government meddling with what should be a free market issue, the biggest problem is the system of employer-funded insurance which removes bargaining power away from the individual for the sake of "collective bargaining" which doesn't make it more affordable, it makes it unaffordable for individual buyers. I wouldn't task my employer with picking my pizza toppings, let alone something as important as my health care plan. The ability to effectively shop around for health care was stripped away from individuals and instituted an insurance company hegemony - the reason why an ambulance ride costs four digits is precisely because the insurance company only pays for a small fraction of the service, which coincidentally is the actual cost for the health care provider, the same applies across the board. The whole system needs to be dismantled, there is no fixing it. Health care should be as simple as paying at the till on the way out, or just paying your company of choice a set amount monthly. The premise of health insurance is that, in the event of an emergency, your insurance company will pay less then you would out of pocket, it has to necessarily be a calculated bet, but the risk factor was removed from the equation, the insurer can't lose - they will have customers no matter what, so the incentive to compete is non-existent.


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## IncredulousP (Dec 20, 2019)

Also people aren't going to treat themselves better or worse knowing they wouldn't have to pay for medical treatment. In fact, they would be unhealthier in the long run because of the lack of preventative treatment that comes with affordable healthcare. Not having adorable healthcare costs the average taxpayer more money than having it.



Foxi4 said:


> what should be a free market issue



Free market is idealized nonsense, especially when it comes to healthcare. It falls under the assumption that there will always be many choices that can be easily and equally be made, forcing each choice to outcompete each other by keeping prices low. In reality, people are going to need immediate medical attention closest to them, requiring products and services that are going to be owned and handled by only 1 or a small group of companies (re:oligopoly, monopoly). The "free-market" has always been a pipedream used to lead moderates into voting conservative, it doesn't work in a capitalist dog-eat-dog society of scarsity, the biggest contenders always come out on top as sole rulers.


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## Lacius (Dec 20, 2019)

LonelyPhantom said:


> There are some important factors people either forget or fail to realize which helps to explain why a Nation such as the USA could never have Universal Healthcare.
> 
> 1. *Population Size*
> The USA Has a total Population of 329,000,0000+ which far exceeds the Population for any of the Average Nations within the list of all Nations with Universal Healthcare.
> ...



Population is irrelevant, since as the number of people to be covered goes up, so does the number of taxpayers. It's also double irrelevant when you consider the income disparities in the USA and how much the rich can disproportionately pay into the system.
The quality of care per dollar in the USA is laughably low.
We have a bloated military budget. The USA can slash its military budget while still remaining a "superpower."



Foxi4 said:


> The cost of health care is entirely the fault of the government meddling with what should be a free market issue


That's pretty laughable, since a.) We know what the costs of healthcare look like without government meddling, and b.) The government to this day hardly meddles with the insurance market, aside from laughably low-bar requirements for healthcare coverage.

Edit: Before we get into a big argument, I'm going to agree with you that requirements on employers to provide health insurance coverage is a terrible policy.


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## IncredulousP (Dec 20, 2019)

Lacius said:


> We have a bloated military budget. The USA can slash its military budget while still remaining a "superpower."


How many dollar bills were wasted in Afganistan again? Billions? Trillions?


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## Foxi4 (Dec 20, 2019)

Lacius said:


> Edit: Before we get into a big argument, I'm going to agree with you that requirements on employers to provide health insurance coverage is a terrible policy.


I'm okay with just that, we agree that the policy is bad and the root of the problem. I'm fine with us having different ideas on the solutions as long as the primary issue is recognised.


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## RationalityIsLost101 (Dec 20, 2019)

Super.Nova said:


> That is exactly how a paid service is supposed to be and I wholeheartedly agree with this method "except for true emergency cases ofwhich not caused by neglect."
> I'm well known among many circles of non-legible patients (emigrants not covered by government healthcare program) to go the extra mile and I'm happy to do my job the best I could.
> What I'm not happy about is anybody willfully throwing away their health and demand that you patch them up like new whenever they feel like it.
> 
> ...


Well I appreciate your insight, I can see the raised concerns. It sounds like there is a power imbalance on the patient autonomy in directing healthcare vs physician expertise where you are located. 

While I don't foresee these type of issues becoming systemic in an expansion of healthcare in our system due to us already having a partial coverage for the elderly and the destitute I can become more proactive in viewing legislation that covers such an expansion to make sure they entail safeguards to prevent abuse.

We have a medicare/medicaid fraud and other pieces of legislation that put the onus on the healthcare providers to prove to the insurance providers that all procedures and interventions are warranted and we could stand to increase such regulations if it expands to the entire population.


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## RationalityIsLost101 (Dec 20, 2019)

Lacius said:


> That's pretty laughable, since a.) We know what the costs of healthcare look like without government meddling, and b.) The government to this day hardly meddles with the insurance market, aside from laughably low-bar requirements for healthcare coverage.
> 
> Edit: Before we get into a big argument, I'm going to agree with you that requirements on employers to provide health insurance coverage is a terrible policy.



I agree with this as well. Employer's should have never been linked to our health insurance. 

11 of our states have an insurance commissioners that are elected, the rest are appointed (who is bothering to ask Governors who they are appointing for their insurance commissioner?). Either way Insurance companies have bought out our politicians (on both sides) for decades and insured (pun intended) that they will privatize the gains and socialize the losses.

Fun fact involving a deep-red southern state:
Louisiana had a bizarre 500yr flood and a 1000yr flood back in 2016. Their elected insurance commissioner (since '06 I believe?) never even came close to loosing his seat, they are the 2nd highest in car insurance in the nation. There's other factors that come into play like auto accident lawyers being able to advertise, etc. But the point is the commissioner allowed them to raise rates multiple times within 2 years to insure proper profit margins. He received a healthy kickback via campaign contributions.

Health insurance isn't much better I'm afraid. Sooner we overturn citizens' united the better.


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## YukidaruPunch (Dec 20, 2019)

I live in Brazil. My country is one with _gigantical _issues, striking violence and abysmal income inequality. We do, however, have a public healthcare system.

It isn't perfect, and it doesn't always work, and sometimes people have to wait much longer than they should; but when it works, it works. I personally know people who have been treated for cancer through our free healthcare. The way our healthcare is perceived by much of the populace, however, is of one which flat-out doesn't work, so lots of people from middle and upper classes have to pay for private healthcare, which is crazy expensive. Since our president lies among the worst in the world, you always have political propaganda running around trying to demoralise the system and incentivise it to shut down. 

Unlike the U.S., college education is also free for those students who get a good score  on ENEM (it's kinda like out SATs) while we also have private universities which are easier to get into, but costly. Basic education, however, is lacking compared to private schools, so most middle and upper class families resort to that when raising their children. It's kinda like the opposite of the U.S. in this sense. This leads to a weird outcome where wealthy families are most probable to get spots in both public and private college education - the previous populist government made measures in order to even things out and lower social inequality, however the current government talks about privatizing public universities and fucking everything up again. We're currently in a state where things that are very costly in the U.S. (healthcare, college education) can be achieved for free, but the current government works it best in retracting that.

All that being said, I don't mean to say Brazil is better or worse than the U.S. because of those subjects, but one thing that I find really striking is most most Brazilians have _no idea about the differences I just listed above_. To the eyes of many, the U.S. is the land of opportunity where you can have a great life and iPhones are cheaper. I don't know how it is in any other countries in the world, nor how it is in the rest of Latin America, but I can assertedly say a whooping lot of our populace just thinks the U.S. is an outright better place and has no idea about those issues regarding the lack of free healthcare and the outstanding expenses amassed over college education. I worked as an English teacher some time ago and it was _striking_ how many people from middle and upper classes hadn't the slightest idea of that.

A better alternative to free or affordable health care is possible and there are many worldwide countries which serve as an example of how this can plainly work. It's one of those things that always seem impossible until they're done. Changing the mindset of people unto understanding how things can be different would be an ideal scenario. Much like many people in the U.S. may think free healthcare would be either impossible or absurd, many people from other countries think it's absurd how the U.S. doesn't have it. Having said change would be excellent because it would push other countries to follow suit.

As it stands, healthcare in the U.S. is a market. I'm hoping this changes in the future.


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## Deleted User (Dec 21, 2019)

Everytime I read about Public Health Care in the USA...
I really wonder how people get by in this system.
Thank God for our Health Care system in Austria!


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## Xzi (Dec 21, 2019)

Dodain47 said:


> I really wonder how people get by with this system.


Many can't.  There have been a disturbing number of diabetics who have died in recent years by attempting to ration their insulin.  It's $300+ a month in the US, even though it costs the same $6 per vial to manufacture that it does in any other country.

Bottom line: privatized healthcare insurance is a scam and shouldn't exist, I don't give a fuck how many people it employs.


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## Deleted User (Dec 21, 2019)

I heard about that from a neighbour of mine. He currently lives as an exchange student in Orlando.
He told me that People who can´t afford medical attention just die.. 
They open a GoFundMe campaign and try to get by until the end.


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## rsx (Dec 21, 2019)

Insurance is a scam for so many reasons. You have to pay a fee on top of the fees you're already paying, called a deductible. And the insurance company decides which medications and procedures it'll cover and you have no recourse. It's like a loaded game of cards, and the house always wins. And if you need some type of surgery, the doctor needs to get authorization (which takes anywhere from 1-3 weeks). This becomes a problem when the procedure is deemed to be very important. 

My insurance is lousy, it only covers a visit to the dentist once a year. I went the other day and they said because I've only been there once every year, now I have to have an expensive deep cleaning. The insurance company is supposed to pay for it, and from then on I'll be able to have a cleaning every three months. If they just had a policy allowing cleanings every six months, I wouldn't be in this predicament.


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## D34DL1N3R (Dec 21, 2019)

morvoran said:


> Healthcare in America does suck which is why Trump is trying to fix it.  Unfortunately, we have a party of power hungry idiots who would rather waste our/their time, taxes, etc trying to impeach him instead of fixing what needs fixing.   Trump has already signed executive orders forcing hospitals to be transparent in their pricing which means you will know before hand if you will get gouged by that hospital.  This way, you can shop around for the cheapest surgeries and bring competition into the healthcare market.  His admin is also trying to work on lowering prescription costs.
> 
> If the do nothing democrats would work with him on actual policies rather than running a fake impeachment circus, maybe we can have actual "change we can believe in" in America which no other administration has done before.
> 
> I think if the democrats would drop their own government provided healthcare and had to use the ACA health insurance system, which they thought was so good enough for us that they would not allow anybody to know what was in it until it passed, I'm sure our Healthcare system would be a top priority to them.



You are as absolutely, incredibly stupid, as Cotz. Trump trying to fix it? Where's the plan he's been promising for three years now that was going to be the be all, end all, healthcare plan? Answer... he has NOTHING and never has. And "do nothing Democrats"? You obviously stole that one straight from Trumps own mouth/Twitter, and once again, you fall for it. Have anything new or original? How about you ask Mitch why there are hundreds of Dem bills on his desk that he flat out REFUSES to bring to Senate. And you want to talk about do nothing? Hypocrite!


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## Super.Nova (Dec 21, 2019)

RationalityIsLost101 said:


> I agree with this as well. Employer's should have never been linked to our health insurance.
> 
> 11 of our states have an insurance commissioners that are elected, the rest are appointed (who is bothering to ask Governors who they are appointing for their insurance commissioner?). Either way Insurance companies have bought out our politicians (on both sides) for decades and insured (pun intended) that they will privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
> 
> ...



I always thought the whole point of getting an insurance (though mandatory) was to avoid paying for the medical needs until the movie "Saw" taught me otherwise 
It's way too much of a mess over the US I wonder what's the point of mandating an insurance if it's going to deny all claims.

I can not but wonder if the government had a gain into all of this as it can hardly be explained otherwise.
If it was for me, all healthcare services should be free for at least people whom really can't afford it and only emergency cases for middle class citizens.
At least I believe it would put more balance into this mess as the upper class would contribute a bit towards the lower classes with dire need of service.
Let alone proper education on how and when should intervention happen and how to avoid it altogether.


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## 0x3000027E (Dec 21, 2019)

Lacius said:


> The government to this day hardly meddles with the insurance market.


Ahem. US federal government is the largest single payer of healthcare in the US (accounts for more than 25%). _Of course_ that type of revenue gives them _considerable_ influence in the market. Furthermore, state-level legislation grants insurance companies advantages that serve to reduce fair market competition (that would significantly reduce health care costs).



Foxi4 said:


> The cost of health care is entirely the fault of the government meddling with what should be a free market issue


Surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier in the thread.


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## Xzi (Dec 21, 2019)

0x3000027E said:


> Surprised this wasn't mentioned earlier in the thread.


It wasn't mentioned because it's nonsense.  Privatization drives up the cost of everything it touches.  Less regulation just means more price fixing and higher costs.  Or worse, the biggest companies eat the smaller ones until there are only two options left and they both suck.  A prime example of this is the high-speed ISP market in America, where 98% of people only have access to either Comcast or Time Warner.  Everybody fucking hates them, their prices and data caps get more ludicrous every year, but it doesn't matter because they've got the market cornered.


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## D34DL1N3R (Dec 21, 2019)

So, Trump just threw $738 billion into Space Force. Yet still no healthcare plan. At all. And the right will continue to believe his 2020 campaign  ̶p̶r̶o̶m̶i̶s̶e̶s̶  lies.


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## 0x3000027E (Dec 21, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It wasn't mentioned because it's nonsense.  Privatization drives up the cost of everything it touches.  Less regulation just means more price fixing and higher costs.


 
ISP's depend on state and local governments for "right-of'way" (infrastructure). Government is in a superb position to promote fair competition in this sector; they do not.
There is a reason that ISP's spent $80 million in lobbying just last year.


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## Xzi (Dec 21, 2019)

0x3000027E said:


> ISP's depend on state and local governments for "right-of'way" (infrastructure). Government is in a superb position to promote fair competition in this sector; they do not.


Because our government is currently right-wing and doesn't give a shit how many laws and regulations corporations violate.  Candidates like Bernie Sanders have called for the break-up of Comcast and other big tech companies.  It's best if we're proactive and don't give the healthcare market the opportunity to become equally shitty to begin with.  It's really bad now, but it can always get worse.


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## 0x3000027E (Dec 21, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Because our government is currently right-wing.


Well, Right wing/Left wing is all horseshit to me, so I can't speak to that. (I personally don't see any significance to political parties beyond checks and balances).



Xzi said:


> Candidates like Bernie Sanders have called for the break-up of Comcast and other big tech companies.


Bernie Sanders accepts millions in political 'donations' from 4 of the largest tech companies in the US, so I'm not sure I follow you there.


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## Xzi (Dec 21, 2019)

0x3000027E said:


> Bernie Sanders accepts millions in political 'donations' from 4 of the largest tech companies in the US, so I'm not sure I follow you there.


Sounds like something straight out of a tabloid.  He only takes individual donations, and the highest possible donation is $2800.  His average donation is $17, though, and he's notably returned even small donations that came from millionaires and/or billionaires.

Not that it makes much difference, because there are also capitalist candidates out there calling for the same thing.  It's not something you say unless you're willing to piss off the big tech donors.


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## morvoran (Dec 22, 2019)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You are as absolutely, incredibly stupid, as Cotz. Trump trying to fix it? Where's the plan he's been promising for three years now that was going to be the be all, end all, healthcare plan? Answer... he has NOTHING and never has. And "do nothing Democrats"? You obviously stole that one straight from Trumps own mouth/Twitter, and once again, you fall for it. Have anything new or original? How about you ask Mitch why there are hundreds of Dem bills on his desk that he flat out REFUSES to bring to Senate. And you want to talk about do nothing? Hypocrite!


Wow, you must be a democrat.  You take every thing wrong with yourself and turn it around and say I'm guilty of it.  Maybe if you did a little research yourself instead of only relying on your puppet masters in the democrat ran news sources, you would see what Trump has been doing to help the US and its citizens instead of just wasting time trying to impeach somebody who committed no crimes or offenses that are impeachable.

Plus, how many times have you told me you were going to put me on your ignore list?  Yet again, here you are whining and spewing nonsense about the things I said which can be verified with a simple google search.  Turning to CNN will not get you the answers you seek.

Trump has released details of his health plan, he made it so hospitals have to reveal the prices they charge, and he is working on lower prescription drug prices (which could have already been done if the dems weren't too busy with something else).  How about this time, you actually click on my username and then click on ignore?  Ok, pal?


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