# Time to start calling it the American virus (?)



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Dec 13, 2020)

Blood samples from 2019 were tested for COVID19 in the US.
_"Out of the 7,389 samples, 106 of them tested positive for coronavirus antibodies. Of those, 39 were collected from California, Oregon, and Washington from December 13th to December 13th." (quote from 1st source)
_
Unless blood doners are more prone to having contracted COVID19, we can deduct from this data that 1,4% of Americans already had the virus by mid January, and 0,5% by December 13th. This means, there were millions (!) of cases in the US in December 2019.
It is weird that the headlines do not support this conclusion. Am I missing something?

[Disclaimer: I am against naming it the American virus; I just wonder how Trump would react if COVID19 originated in the US]

https://bgr.com/2020/12/01/coronavirus-usa-first-cases-early-december-2019-cdc-antibodies-study/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-weeks-before-first-case-reported/6475864002/


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## Taleweaver (Dec 13, 2020)

Also from the first source :

Recently, an Italian study similar to the one CDC researchers performed showed that some Italians had coronavirus antibodies as early as mid-October 2019.


... So it could just as well be Italian. No... The point of these studies undermine the (assumed) China origin. It can't pinpoint the real origin, because for that you've got to test old blood samples worldwide.


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## KingVamp (Dec 13, 2020)

I'm pretty sure Trump doesn't care where it came from and will still just blame it on China.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 13, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> I'm pretty sure Trump doesn't care where it came from and will still just blame it on China.


Yeah... Luckily, his opinion is becoming irrelevant again.


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## smf (Dec 13, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Recently, an Italian study similar to the one CDC researchers performed showed that some Italians had coronavirus antibodies as early as mid-October 2019.



I thought there was an earlier example in China though. It's more to point out how asleep at the wheel we were.
We should have started testing in January, rather than June.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 13, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Yeah... Luckily, his opinion is becoming irrelevant again.


You say that but even assuming his legal cases don't amount to anything then many expect him to remain a force in US politics for a while yet (whether as pundit or a player I don't know and people are suggesting either), and if indeed 10 million more did feel compelled to vote for him then he will probably coast off that for a while (whether he goes for 2024 I don't know).




KingVamp said:


> and will still just blame it on China.


Does China not share a considerable amount of the blame?


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## Hanafuda (Dec 13, 2020)

I have only anecdotal experience but I'm not alone -- my family caught a virus in January that was different than anything we've had before (I'm 53yo), and different for each of us in effect. For my 17yo daughter, it was more than 2 weeks of fever, chills, cough, etc that antibiotics and steroids couldn't touch. She went back to the doctor twice after the first visit because the fever was lasting so long, medication having no effect. For my wife, it was a week off from work, in bed all day, fever, cough, gunky flowing sinus/throat, and a severe case of the shits. For me, it was fever for one day, headache for 2 days, mildly runny nose. Started on Friday so I only missed one day of work.

Was it Covid? No way to know. It spread around here like wildfire though, local schools were closed for a week. Although there had been news stories here at that time about Covid19, it was still supposed to be in China only, no cases in the US yet.


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 13, 2020)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> [Disclaimer: I am against naming it the American virus; I just wonder how Trump would react if COVID19 originated in the US]



I don't liked this topic. Against naming it the American virus ?? Ouch! Well, you .......just did.


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## Veho (Dec 13, 2020)

Traces of the novel coronavirus have been found in wastewater samples taken in Barcelona in _March 2019_, so it's possible the virus was out and about way before it was officially identified. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science-idUSKBN23X2HQ

Should we call it the Spanish Flu 2: Electric Bugaloo?



(No we shouldn't.)


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## Deleted User (Dec 13, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> You say that but even assuming his legal cases don't amount to anything then many expect him to remain a force in US politics for a while yet (whether as pundit or a player I don't know and people are suggesting either), and if indeed 10 million more did feel compelled to vote for him then he will probably coast off that for a while (whether he goes for 2024 I don't know).
> 
> 
> 
> Does China not share a considerable amount of the blame?



They just hate the USA - they are taught it in school. They are hoping the virus came from the US just because they think it would make Donald Trump look bad. It's really pathetic. Anyone who disagree with 
them are nazis and should be shamed publicly / lose their jobs.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 14, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> You say that but even assuming his legal cases don't amount to anything then many expect him to remain a force in US politics for a while yet (whether as pundit or a player I don't know and people are suggesting either), and if indeed 10 million more did feel compelled to vote for him then he will probably coast off that for a while (whether he goes for 2024 I don't know).


I'll argue the exact opposite: last I heard his legal cases are now 55 losses against 1 win(1). Republicans abandon him. All courts (including his own appointed supreme court) abandon him. Fox (mostly?) abandons him. Fuck...even Melania "just wants to go home". All he has left is his base, and what does he do with them? Scam them out of their money.

The US currently has a 9/11-amount of deaths on a daily basis and for the foreseeable future due to covid, but Trump just busies himself filing more cases and playing golf (okay: he's dismantling everything the US stands for as well, but that's a different topic).

Once he's out of the white house, the best he can hope for is to be forgotten. Well...that's how the general concensus will be. Of course there'll be people left to believe things like "Elvis is alive", "aliens are real" and "Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election", but they'll be (again) seen as the guys in your local bar you should stay away from. Political influence? No fucking way.


@eastwald: are you the new rightwing sock puppet around here? If so...welcome.
I'm one of the articulate guys from the ACTUAL left side. Shall we agree to disagree or do you want to insult me a bit before I decide to block you? 



(1): which wasn't about fraud, let alone mass fraud, let alone the sort that would overturn the election. Nope...it was about a legislatory change that wasn't implemented correctly


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## Jayro (Dec 14, 2020)

It's Trump's virus, he's got 300,000 deaths to answer for. I call it COVID-45 now.


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## KingVamp (Dec 15, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> Does China not share a considerable amount of the blame?


Kind of missing the point. Wasn't saying who to blame or not. I was saying, it doesn't matter to Trump either way.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 15, 2020)

Jayro said:


> It's Trump's virus, he's got 300,000 deaths to answer for. I call it COVID-45 now.


How exactly?

What actions could he have taken that would have prevented seemingly all of the US deaths? I look out at the rest of the world with various other responses (and in some cases even more power in governments) and mostly seems to be a rich-poor divide.

Equally what actions could he have taken that state governors could not have done by themselves?

His actions or inactions might be said to have contributed to something, what percentage I do not know, but blaming the whole deal on him seems a bit strong.


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## vb_encryption_vb (Dec 15, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> I have only anecdotal experience but I'm not alone -- my family caught a virus in January that was different than anything we've had before (I'm 53yo), and different for each of us in effect. For my 17yo daughter, it was more than 2 weeks of fever, chills, cough, etc that antibiotics and steroids couldn't touch. She went back to the doctor twice after the first visit because the fever was lasting so long, medication having no effect. For my wife, it was a week off from work, in bed all day, fever, cough, gunky flowing sinus/throat, and a severe case of the shits. For me, it was fever for one day, headache for 2 days, mildly runny nose. Started on Friday so I only missed one day of work.
> 
> Was it Covid? No way to know. It spread around here like wildfire though, local schools were closed for a week. Although there had been news stories here at that time about Covid19, it was still supposed to be in China only, no cases in the US yet.



Same here, for me it was 18 days, started at the end of November. Nothing I've ever experienced, Doctor didn't know what the hell it was other than I had lung damage from the excessive coughing. Fevers, chills, cold/hot sweats, aches, trouble breathing, etc, etc


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## boomy (Dec 15, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> How exactly?
> 
> What actions could he have taken that would have prevented seemingly all of the US deaths? I look out at the rest of the world with various other responses (and in some cases even more power in governments) and mostly seems to be a rich-poor divide.
> 
> ...


Australia and New Zealand got it right


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## vb_encryption_vb (Dec 15, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> How exactly?
> 
> What actions could he have taken that would have prevented seemingly all of the US deaths? I look out at the rest of the world with various other responses (and in some cases even more power in governments) and mostly seems to be a rich-poor divide.
> 
> ...



Not a damn thing, he could have cured cancer and dems/libs would blame him for not releasing the cure soon enough...


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## Jayro (Dec 15, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> How exactly?
> 
> What actions could he have taken that would have prevented seemingly all of the US deaths? I look out at the rest of the world with various other responses (and in some cases even more power in governments) and mostly seems to be a rich-poor divide.
> 
> ...


Well right before the virus hit america, he fired and refunded the pandemic response team, so that's fuck-up number one, then he refused to take the outbreak serious and downplayed it's seriousness, comparing it to the regular flu. He then refused any respirators from being imported, and closed everything down far too late. Then he refused to keep us in lockdown just so "the economy" wouldn't dip for his businesses. And then the dumb mother fucker INSISTED that kids go back to school WHEN THE VIRUS WAS IN FULL-SWING, further making shit worse. He also refused to listen to Doctor Anthony Fauci's expertise, and even teased he would fire him after the election, when he's done nothing wrong. Trump has just been fucking this whole thing up since the very beginning, and he knew about the virus since November, and he did NOTHING. That's why 300,000 deaths are on his hands.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 15, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Well right before the virus hit america, he fired and refunded the pandemic response team, so that's fuck-up number one, then he refused to take the outbreak serious and downplayed it's seriousness, comparing it to the regular flu. He then refused any respirators from being imported, and closed everything down far too late. Then he refused to keep us in lockdown just so "the economy" wouldn't dip for his businesses. And then the dumb mother fucker INSISTED that kids go back to school WHEN THE VIRUS WAS IN FULL-SWING, further making shit worse. He also refused to listen to Doctor Anthony Fauci's expertise, and even teased he would fire him after the election, when he's done nothing wrong. Trump has just been fucking this whole thing up since the very beginning, and he knew about the virus since November, and he did NOTHING. That's why 300,000 deaths are on his hands.


I'm not sure if I should love your response or criticise you for inaccuracies.

So I'll do both. Keep in mind that you're mostly right, though:

* the pandemic response team was disbanded in 2018. It's a fuck-up, but you're wrong on the timing.
(on the other end...the abcense of this team is one that came to surface. There are other programs that were gutted or sold out that have a much higher damage potential)
* Trump didn't close down a single state. That's, in a way, even worse: after his minimalizing, he went on to say that the states should fend for themselves rather than treating it as a national emergency.
* similarly: he didn't open up a single state either. The thing is that the senators who were trying to keep things (somewhat?) safe got Trump's criticism.
* he didn't "tease" he would fire Fauci after the election: he made it a re-election promise.
* november? If you've got a source on that I'd like to hear it, but AFAIK he was briefed twice near the end of January. But as the link illustrates, how he acted publicly was much different than in private.
* 300'000 deaths? Hmm...a problem with properly criticising Trump is that, like you, it's easy to make him a scapegoat (which is part of why opponents refuse to listen). Let's not kid ourselves: none of us could have prevented ALL deaths. It's just too sudden, too surprising and with too little knowledge (let's face it: oriental countries like South Korea have more experiences with outbreaks, so they acted faster and more efficient now). IIRC, Fauci and the CDC set the initial death rate at around 60'000 in the US (this was march or april). It's only the deaths above that that you can start attributing to the lacking government. So...I'll say that he's (indirectly) responsible for the deaths of around 240'000 US civilians. And counting.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Dec 16, 2020)

vb_encryption_vb said:


> Same here, for me it was 18 days, started at the end of November. Nothing I've ever experienced, Doctor didn't know what the hell it was other than I had lung damage from the excessive coughing. Fevers, chills, cold/hot sweats, aches, trouble breathing, etc, etc


Nov 2019 I reckon? I saw many similar posts on twitter.


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## vb_encryption_vb (Dec 16, 2020)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Nov 2019 I reckon? I saw many similar posts on twitter.


correct


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