# Tomomi Itano to graduate from AKB48 this year (or, The "Minami-Minegishi-MUST-Stay-Celibate" Thread)



## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Source: http://www.tokyohive.com/2013/02/itano-tomomi-to-graduate-from-akb48-this-year/

Nooooooooo! Tomo-chin!


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

How can you "graduate" from a Pop group?


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> How can you "graduate" from a Pop group?


It's a term that just used for idol groups like AKB48, Morning Musume, Momoiro Clover Z, etc.


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## DinohScene (Feb 1, 2013)

Erm...
What?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> It's a term that just used for idol groups like AKB48, Morning Musume, Momoiro Clover Z, etc.


It's still a silly term though. It's just a Pop group.

The regime they're on is also ridiculous - the latest controversy of "Oh no, a member of the group slept with someone" caused a fan reaction of:


It's like a _jail sentence_ or something. She _shaved her hair, _for the love of god, they need a life, she's 20 years old.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It's still a silly term though. It's just a Pop group. The regime they're on is also ridiculous - the latest controversy of "Oh no, a member of the group slept with someone" caused a fan reaction of:
> 
> 
> It's like a _jail sentence_ or something. She _shaved her hair, _for the love of god, they need a life, she's, like, 20.



Yeah,but she is an idol, she knows what she should & should not do, her image affects the group as a whole. I though Minami shouldn't have shaved her head though...to be fair, she was demoted to Kenkyusei status.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Yeah,but she is an idol, she knows what she should & should not do, her image affects the group as a whole. I though Minami shouldn't have shaved her head though...to be fair, she was demoted to Kenkyusei status.


If by that you mean that she should _listen to her manager without question_ and she shouldn't _have a life like a human being_ then thanks, that's againts everything I believe in concerning human rights. As for "statuses" in the group, it's pretty dumb too... but why am I even questioning, it's Japan, they always come up with something odd-bizzare.

Sleeping with your boyfriend is not something people should frown in disapproval about, just saying.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> If by that you mean that she should _listen to her manager without question_ and she shouldn't _have a life like a human being_ then thanks, that's againts everything I believe in concerning human rights. As for "statuses" in the group, it's pretty dumb too... but why am I even questioning, it's Japan, they always come up with something odd-bizzare.


No, not at all. She chose to audition and when chosen be a member of the group, therefore she has to comply with their rules, it likes working for a company. I see no difference. They agree to not have boyfriends, besides Idol culture is not just popular in Japan (it is the most extreme in Japan though).


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> No, not at all. She chose to audition and when chosen be a member of the group, therefore she has to comply with their rules, it likes working for a company. I see no difference. They agree to not have boyfriends, besides Idol culture is not just popular in Japan (it is the most extreme in Japan though).


You do not represent your company when _outside of the company._

Your personal life and your professional life are two things that should never be mixed together. If the contract you signed violates your basic rights as a human being then it's null and void to begin with, valid contracts cannot infringe upon any rights protected by law.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> You do not represent your company when _outside of the company._
> 
> Your personal life and your professional life are two things that should never be mixed together. If the contract you're about to sign violates your basic rights as a human being then it's null and void to begin with, valid contracts may not infringe upon any rights protected by law.


Some companies in America fire you if you smoke, like this instance in Minnesota. Howevr as I have said, when you sign a contract you should know what you are getting into, and clearly what AKB is doing is not illegal in Japan.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/stephanie-cannon-fired_n_1709915.html


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Some companies in America fire you if you smoke, like this instance in Minnesota.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/stephanie-cannon-fired_n_1709915.html


I'm just saying that the treatment of those young women is _neither fair nor very human_ - they're treated like objects more so than like people and groups like this _should be frowned upon_. Idolizing such treatment by supporting the group isn't the way to go. That is, unless this was just a media stunt. If it wasn't, the poor girl is pretty brainwashed already to have shaven her head "in atonement".

Do note that Stephanie's case is controversial - she may take legal action againts the company and if the judge determines that she was unlawfully fired, she may not only return to her job, she'd also get compensation. To me, the issue smells fishy at best, but hey - that's for a judge to decide.


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## Warrior522 (Feb 1, 2013)

Considering all the education I have on these things is from Shining Musume...

Yet I do get what happened. Graduation = ejection on grounds of age, appearance, or behavior being outside of standards.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm just saying that the treatment of those young women is _neither fair nor very human_ - they're treated like objects more so than like people and groups like this _should be frowned upon_. Idolizing such treatment by supporting the group isn't the way to go.
> 
> Do note that Stephanie's case is controversial - she may take legal action againts the company and if the judge determines that she was unlawfully fired, she may not only return to her job, she'd also get compensation. To me, the issue smells fishy at best, but hey - that's for a judge to decide.


There were previous cases where the smokers lost, and the court found in favor of the company. And there are some states that have laws as such like Florida, Georgia,and Pennsylvania. I'm just saying she chose to shave her head to show her sorrow, no one made her do that.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Warrior522 said:


> Considering all the education I have on these things is from Shining Musume...
> 
> Yet I do get what happened. Graduation = ejection on grounds of age, appearance, or behavior being outside of standards.


Nope, Maeda Atsuko graduated last year, no scandal until after she graduated and got wasted. And Yuko Oshima is older than Tomo-chin, she's almost 25 (she will be in October)! Tomo-chin will only be 22 this year.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> There were previous cases where the smokers lost, and the court found in favor of the company. And there are some states that have laws as such like Florida, Georgia,and Pennsylvania. I'm just saying she chose to shave her head to show her sorrow, no one made her do that.


She shaved her head because _she was desperate to protect her position in a screwed up society that supports drastic regimes imposed on a band of teenage girls and exploits them for entertainment_. She signed up for it _to attain the idolized status_, not really thinking much of what limitations it will entail in the long run. _Classic Stockholm Syndrome_, except she _signed up_ to be a _"hostage"_ in this situation.

Her career stands quite literally on her way to happines as a person not because she's "busy" but because of contrived, bullshit rules - you _can't_ be serious in justifying this. _"Only in Japan"_.


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## MegaBassBX (Feb 1, 2013)

She is just a human being,believe me she's better off the band than in it.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> She shaved her head because she was desperate to protect her position in a screwed up society that supports drastic regimes imposed on a band of teenage girls and exploits them for entertainment. She signed up for it to attain the idolized status, not really thinking much of what limitations it will entail in the long run. Classic Stockholm Syndrome, except she signed up to be a "hostage" in this situation.
> 
> Her career stands quite literally on her way to happines as a person not because she's "busy" but because of contrived, bullshit rules - you can't be serious in justifying this. "Only in Japan".


Yes, I can. People who want to be an idol have to obey the rules of the group otherwise they affect the other members of the group.And again, other countries have idol groups, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, People's Republic of China, and Indonesia have idol groups to my knowledge.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

MegaBassBX said:


> She is just a human being,believe me she's better off the band than in it.


Her career probably won't be better off though. But I will always support Tomo-chin!


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Yes, I can. People who want to be an idol have to obey the rules of the group otherwise they affect the other members of the group.And again, other countries have idol groups, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, People's Republic of China, and Indonesia have idol groups to my knowledge.


Meaning all the countries that happen to have a history of objectifying and exploiting people?

China and their Olympic Children, Taiwan and their inhuman labour conditions, South Korea and human trafficking, Singapore and the ban on homosexual relations between men, Indonesia and their excessive use of force againts protesters of all sorts?

Yeah, that makes sense.


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2013)

"Idol group"?

It sounds like you misspelled "musical cult".


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Meaning all the countries that happen to have a history of objectifying and exploiting people?
> 
> China and their Olympic Children, Taiwan and their inhuman labour conditions, South Korea and human trafficking, Singapore and the ban on homosexual relations between men, Indonesia and their excessive use of force againts protesters of all sorts?
> 
> Yeah, that makes sense.


It just seems you don't like Southeast Asia...to me. I love idol groups And each one is different from the other, like SDN48 (yes, it was a member of the 48 family) but it was different, the women acted sexual. But they didn't last long, it was sad when they had their group graduation, I was glad when they returned at Request Hour to perform Kodoku na Runner.


Gahars said:


> "Idol group"?
> 
> It sounds like you misspelled "musical cult".


The same can be said of American female pop artists, most are overly sexual. Idol groups are just the opposite.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> It just seems you don't like Southeast Asia...to me. I love idol groups And each one is different from the other, like SDN48 (yes, it was a member of the 48 family) but it was different, the women acted sexual. But they didn't last long, it was sad when they had their group graduation, I was glad when they returned at Request Hour to perform Kodoku na Runner.


I have nothing againts Southeast Asia - they farm my gold for Lineage 2! _</crude joke>_

Seriously though, I'm just againts unfair, inhuman treatment. When I see that something smells nasty, I'm not going to say _it smells of daisies in here_, I'm going to call a group out on it because it's wrong.

_"When one teenage girl shaves her head it is a tragedy, when thousands shave it's statistics" ~Joseph Stalin_


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## Nebz (Feb 1, 2013)

>AKB48

I thought we finally had a discussion thread about JAV titles. Back to Akiba I goooooo....


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I have nothing againts Southeast Asia - they farm my gold for Lineage 2! _</crude joke>_
> 
> Seriously though, I'm just againts unfair, inhuman treatment. When I see that something smells nasty, I'm not going to say _it smells of daisies in here_, I'm going to call a group out on it because it's wrong.


Well, I'm just saying Minami wasn't forced to do anything! And I hope Tomo-chin stays until after the August single, but I know she'll probably graduate before it.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> The same can be said of American female pop artists, most are overly sexual. Idol groups are just the opposite.


Out of their own choice, they want to be that way. They're not mentally forced via Peer Pressure to be that way. Perhaps they are motivated by the general trends, but nobody's standing above their heads, all high-and-mighty holding a book of rules to follow.





smile72 said:


> Well, I'm just saying Minami wasn't forced to do anything!


Peer Pressure.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Peer Pressure.


 
Those are merely your opinions, I believe it was her own choice.


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> The same can be said of American female pop artists, most are overly sexual. Idol groups are just the opposite.


 
Yes, contractually forcing women to never have sex ever (even if it's with a longtime partner) is totally comparable.

Oh wait, it isn't. At all.

Seriously, smile, you're a big proponent for gay rights. So what, does a person's right to love whomever they choose end as soon as they pick up a microphone and get on stage?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Seriously, smile, you're a big proponent for gay rights. So what, does a person's right to love whomever they choose end as soon as they pick up a microphone and get on stage?


That's what I want to know too. For a liberal, you're pretty freaking strict with this. _Golden Threads Strict_, I may add.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Yes, contractually forcing women to never have sex ever (even if it's with a longtime partner) is totally comparable.
> 
> Oh wait, it isn't. At all.
> 
> Seriously, smile, you're a big proponent for gay rights. So what, does a person's right to love whomever they choose end as soon as they pick up a microphone and get on stage?


Firsat off most of these girls join at 14 and 15, some younger, I don't foresee them finding a partner that young. Plus this is really just business, as their image affects the company, do I believe in gay rights, of course. Do I believe all idols should be pure, no I don't. However, each group makes their own rules, it's like if I join a group or team, they have rules & regulations to follow.


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## Attila13 (Feb 1, 2013)

DinohScene said:


> Erm...
> What?


I had the same reaction...


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> That's what I want to know too. For a liberal, you're pretty freaking strict with this. _Golden Threads Strict_, I may add.


I'm a liberal and an otaku! Yes, I say it with pride, even though many consider it a bad word to use to describe yourself.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Firsat off most of these girls join at 14 and 15, some younger, I don't foresee them finding a partner that young.


Why? Who are they to tell them what to do with their love life?


> Plus this is really just business, as their image affects the company, do I believe in gay rights, of course.


So it's okay to sell your soul as a 14-year old? It's okay to sign a contract with the devil that you'll never ever fall in love? That's acceptable?


> Do I believe all idols should be pure, no I don't. However, each group makes their own rules, it's like if I join a group or team, they have rules & regulations to follow.


Rules and regulations that are connected with your work, not your personal life, man.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Why? Who are they to tell them what to do with their love life?
> So it's okay to sell your soul as a 14-year old? It's okay to sign a contract with the devil that you'll never ever fall in love? That's acceptable?
> Rules and regulations that are connected with your work, not your personal life, man.


No, not forever just until they chose to graduate be it 18-25.Nah, even in America "the land of the free" (bullshit), companies can sometimes regulate your personal life, like the smoker case.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> No, not forever just until they chose to graduate be it 18-25.Nah, even in America "the land of the free" (bullshit), companies can sometimes regulate your personal life, like the smoker case.


When it directly affects your performance _at work._ Having _sex_ does not affect your performance _at work_, smile. If it does, it probably _improves _it as much as it_ improves your mood._ Seriously.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> When it directly affects your performance _at work._ Having _sex_ does not affect your performance _at work_, smile. If it does, it probably _improves _it as much as it_ improves your mood._ Seriously.


In this case, it affects it negatively because it will enrage some of the fans of the group who then might stop buying their CDs.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> In this case, it affects it negatively because it will enrage some of the fans of the group who then might stop buying their CDs.


It's not _their business_. They shouldn't even _know_. What happens in the bedroom _should stay in the bedroom_, the rumour mill turns even _without them breaking rules. _Besides, you don't know that - it might as well _improve_ sales.

Whatever, I stated my case. This is incredibly _uncool_ to say the least.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It's not _their business_. They shouldn't even _know_. Besides, you don't know that - it might as well _improve_ sales.
> 
> Whatever, I stated my case. This is incredibly _uncool_ to say the least.


Only with certain groups, in AKB48's case it will more than likely hurt. Scandals never improve an idols career.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Only with certain groups, in AKB48's case it will more than likely hurt. Scandals never improve an idols career.


Some people _BUILD_ careers on scandals _*cough cough* Paris Hilton, Lady Gaga *cough cough* _but whatever you say, you're the expert in Pop.


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Firsat off most of these girls join at 14 and 15, some younger, I don't foresee them finding a partner that young.


 
Whatever the case may be, that's for the individual (and their parents) to decide. You don't see a company dictating the course of a person's love life as, you know, an extreme violation of personal fucking privacy? You know, just a little bit.



> Plus this is really just business, as their image affects the company,


 
"Fuck personal privacy and human dignity, honey, you've got a brand to represent." Lovely.



> However, each group makes their own rules, it's like if I join a group or team, they have rules & regulations to follow.


 
The issue isn't that groups can have set rules and regulations; the problem (which you don't seem to grasp) is that these rules cross a boundary and violate a person's privacy in an extremely disturbing manner.



smile72 said:


> "the land of the free" (bullshit)


 
Woah, guys, stand back, we've got a real rebel on our hands.



> like the smoker case.


 
Except smoking is a public health concern. You know, second hand smoke and all. While it may be contestable, at least there's an understandable, reasonable justification there. As far as I know, "second hand sex" isn't doesn't exist - barring the easy masturbation joke.



smile72 said:


> In this case, it affects it negatively because it will enrage some of the fans of the group who then might stop buying their CDs.


 
I'm sorry, but who the fuck doesn't buy an artist's work because they have consenting sex with a partner, and why the fuck are they being catered to?


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Some people _BUILD_ careers on scandals _*cough cough* Paris Hilton, Lady Gaga *cough cough* _but whatever you say, you're the expert in Pop.


America, America. Not Japan. Countries are different. I am not the expert of Pop. Yes, I know you're probably being sarcastic.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Except smoking is a public health concern. You know, second hand smoke and all. While it may be contestable, at least there's an understandable, reasonable justification there. As far as I know, "second hand sex" isn't doesn't exist - barring the easy masturbation joke.


Wow, answering without reading, not smoking at the company smoking at your own home. That's why you can get fired.
'





Gahars said:


> I'm sorry, but who the fuck doesn't buy an artist's work because they have consenting sex with a partner, and why the fuck are they being catered to?


Because they helped make the group a success, that's why.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> America, America. Not Japan. Countries are different. I am not the expert of Pop. Yes, I know you're probably being sarcastic.


Gahars just put it better than me, and yes, I was being sarcastic.

America, Japan, Afghanistan or the North Pole, unjust treatment is just unjust. There are no variable standards when it comes to treating another human being like a human and allowing for personal space, it's that simple for me. Perhaps one day Japan too will learn that, but first we need to stop accepting such practices and start pointing out their flaws.


smile72 said:


> Wow, answering without reading, not smoking at the company smoking at your own home. That's why you can get fired.


Yes, if you _smell of the smoke, affecting other people's lives (causing cravings/craving yourself as you work)._ If you hold Alcoholics Anonymous sessions when smelling of booze, _of course someone will mind, smile._


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Wow, answering without reading, not smoking at the company smoking at your own home. That's why you can get fired.'


 
Wow, answering without thinking.

And a person smoking at home is just as addicted to the nicotine, which means their judgement might be impaired when it comes to, say, not bringing cigarettes to the place of employment (and, as Foxi points out, they would still carry the smell of the cigarettes). And, since you clearly missed this part...



Gahars said:


> While it may be contestable, at least there's an understandable, reasonable justification there.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Wow, answering without thinking.
> 
> And a person smoking at home is just as addicted to the nicotine, which means their judgement might be impaired when it comes to not bringing cigarettes to the place of employment. And, since you clearly missed this part...


And again, the case merely was they smoked at home, not that they brought the cigarettes in.





Foxi4 said:


> Gahars just put it better than me, and yes, I was being sarcastic.
> 
> America, Japan, Afghanistan or the North Pole, unjust treatment is just unjust. There are no variable standards when it comes to treating another human being like a human and allowing for personal space, it's that simple for me. Perhaps one day Japan too will learn that, but first we need to stop accepting such practices and start pointing out their flaws.
> Yes, if you _smell of the smoke, affecting other people's lives (causing cravings/craving yourself as you work)._ If you hold Alcoholics Anonymous sessions when smelling of booze, _of course someone will mind, smile._


Alcohol and nicotine are not the same, yeah but that's Alcoholics Anonymous, not a company...I'm not sure if you sign something when you join one of those groups, but if you do, then you obey the rules of the group, the same goes for AKB48.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> Alcohol and nicotine are not the same, yeah but that's Alcoholics Anonymous, not a company...I'm not sure if you sign something when you join one of those groups, but if you do, then you obey the rules of the group, the same goes for AKB48.


It was just an example. Your personal life should not affect your professional performance, your professional life should not affect the quality of your personal life. Two separate spheres.

But like I said, I've already stated my case here.

*EDIT: *This is completely unlike you - where did the fondness for stupid rules come from all of a sudden? What about homosexual marriges? They're not allowed in many states - that's a rule. It's a stupid rule. Are you going to follow it now, or will you question it?

Is it just me or is the fact that something's _"weeboo"_ automatically mean that common sense no longer applies?


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It was just an example. Your personal life should not affect your professional performance, your professional life should not affect the quality of your personal life. Two separate spheres.
> 
> But like I said, I've already stated my case here.


In this case your personal life and professional are no different due to paparazzi.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> In this case your personal life and professional are no different due to paparazzi.


Paparazzi infringe upon your personal space and should be persecuted more often - it's one of the most disgusting professions in the world. It's no longer freedom of press when it's factually breaking the law.


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> And again, the case merely was they smoked at home, not that they brought the cigarettes in.


 
Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about.

I have to ask - Are you just not reading, or are you reading and just not comprehending?


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Paparazzi infringe upon your personal space and should be persecuted more often - it's one of the most disgusting professions in the world. It's no longer freedom of press when it's factually breaking the law.


These cases especially Minami's was not breaking the law. They know, that they need to represent AKB48, when they leave the studio. So, as I have said, there are rules that they must *follow* because they agreed to follow them.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It was just an example. Your personal life should not affect your professional performance, your professional life should not affect the quality of your personal life. Two separate spheres.
> 
> But like I said, I've already stated my case here.
> 
> ...


Wrong, with this case, those rules are different as I believe same sex marriage is a right guaranteed by the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, and if you are wondering tons of laws were made that violated the 14th Amendment as well, we just have to wait for those to be struck down.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2013)

smile72 said:


> These cases especially Minami's was not breaking the law. They know, that they need to represent AKB48, when they leave the studio. So, as I have said, there are rules that they must *follow* because they agreed to follow them.


There are *rules *that shouldn't *exist in the first place* which is *what I'm saying here*.

Also, photographing a person without their consent is breaking the law. Fact. This is why "Reality TV footage" often censors the eye area of accidentally-recorded people - they have no consent for the recording.


smile72 said:


> Wrong, with this case, those rules are different as I believe same sex marriage is a right guaranteed by the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, and if you are wondering tons of laws were made that violated the 14th Amendment as well, we just have to wait for those to be struck down.


In that case, they're violating various Human Rights agreements signed by Japan - how is that different?

*Hint:* It's not - having a life partner is a _right_ protected _by law_.


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## Veho (Feb 1, 2013)

Endorsement deals, even in the West, usually have a clause saying, "as the public face of the company/product, your public image reflects on the image on the company/product, and any behaviour deemed unbefitting of / contradicting the image the company is trying to build for itself or its products will get you fired." And anything the media get their hands on is the "public image." It's like Jared eating at McDonald's.


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## smile72 (Feb 1, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> There are *rules *that shouldn't *exist in the first place* which is *what I'm saying here*.
> 
> Also, photographing a person without their consent is breaking the law. Fact. This is why "Reality TV footage" often censors the eye area of accidentally-recorded people - they have no consent for the recording.


It doesn't matter these girls still have to follow their contracts,  having their read what Veho just wrote about endorsement deals.
P.S. Not trying to sound like an asshole, these are merely what the girls agreed to


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2013)

Veho said:


> Endorsement deals, even in the West, usually have a clause saying, "as the public face of the company/product, your public image reflects on the image on the company/product, and any behaviour deemed unbefitting of / contradicting the image the company is trying to build for itself or its products will get you fired." And anything the media get their hands on is the "public image." It's like Jared eating at McDonald's.


*Well I guess that makes it alright then!* </sarcastic Arin Hanson voice>


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## smile72 (Feb 2, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> *Well I guess that makes it alright then!* </sarcastic Arin Hanson voice>


No, it makes it contract law.


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## Veho (Feb 2, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> *Well I guess that makes it alright then!*


Anything else would be false advertizing.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2013)

smile72 said:


> No, it makes it contract law.


_A contract that is breaking the law of a given country is null and void. Fact. _I can sign a contract that I will assist in someone's suicide and I'm _still going to jail for it if I do it because it's illegal_.

Just gonna drop this here: CLICK!



> Article 17 mandates the *right of privacy.* *This provision, specifically article 17(1), protects private adult consensual sexual activity* (...) _~Signed by Japan back in 1978_


 
I'm off, this is pretty hopeless. I made my case pretty clear, unfair treatment is unfair regardless of circumstances.


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## smile72 (Feb 2, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> _A contract that is breaking the law of a given country is null and void. Fact._
> 
> I'm off, this is pretty helpless. I made my case pretty clear, unfair treatment is unfair regardless of circumstances.


No, you are making no sense, these contracts do not violate Japan's laws thus making them perfectly legal.


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## Veho (Feb 2, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> _A contract that is breaking the law of a given country is null and void. Fact. _


Are paparazzi officially breaking any law? Is their activity illegal? It should be, but it isn't. Anything unearthed by the paparazzi is your public image, and your public image is owned by the company. As long as paparazzi are legal, there's nothing illegal about this type of contract. Ugly? Yes. Illegal? No.[/i]


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2013)

Veho said:


> Are paparazzi officially breaking any law? Is their activity illegal? It should be, but it isn't. Anything unearthed by the paparazzi is your public image, and your public image is owned by the company. As long as paparazzi are legal, there's nothing illegal about this type of contract. Ugly? Yes. Illegal? No.[/i]


Where I live (and in most civilized countries, actually) it is factually illegal and actions may be taken againts a paparazzi if he/she factually infringes upon your personal space, problem being that rarely anyone does take action - there are successful instances though. 

There's just no one law concerning paparazzi's specifically, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any crimes that fit the pattern - from harrasment to stalking.

I really don't want to continue this here - I said I'm going to leave.  We have the Golden Threads for that if you must, Veho - I think I made my case clear enough.


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## Hyro-Sama (Feb 2, 2013)




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## emigre (Feb 2, 2013)

I wish I could go back thirty seconds in time and not open this thread.


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## chyyran (Feb 2, 2013)

smile72 said:


> No, you are making no sense, these contracts do not violate Japan's laws thus making them perfectly legal.


No, they aren't legal, as those contracts prevent the girls from having sex, which directly goes against that provision, which specifically protects one's right to have sex.

It is a Japanese law, as the treaty has been signed, and _ratified_ into Japanese law. Therefore, not only does it directly contradict Japanese law, it contradicts _international law_.

The manager of this "pop group" is terrible, manipulating girls, apparently as young as 14, according to Wikipedia, and taking away their human rights. They did read the contracts before they joined did they? Is being an "idol" worth sacrificing your rights?


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## smile72 (Feb 2, 2013)

Ron said:


> No, they aren't legal, as those contracts prevent the girls from having sex, which directly goes against that provision, which specifically protects one's right to have sex.
> 
> It is a Japanese law, as the treaty has been signed, and _ratified_ into Japanese law. Therefore, not only does it directly contradict Japanese law, it contradicts _international law_.
> 
> The manager of this "pop group" is terrible, manipulating girls, apparently as young as 14, according to Wikipedia, and taking away their human rights. They did read the contracts before they joined did they? Is being an "idol" worth sacrificing your rights?


That depends on the person doesn't it?


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## chyyran (Feb 2, 2013)

smile72 said:


> That depends on the person doesn't it?


If you're responding to the fact that the contract contradicts international law, you're right, it does depend on the person.

The person in question must be
1. A member of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens species ("Human")
2. A citizen of a country that has signed and ratified that treaty. Japan is a country that has signed and ratified that treaty.

True, this type of behaviour is not unheard of in Japan, with businessmen committing suicide because they've made a mistake and "dishonoured their family", but this is about a draconian contract manipulating 14-20 year old girls. Since when is having sex with a partner considered dishonourable? If that were the case, Japanese people would cease to exist.

If you're responding to "They did read the contracts before they joined did they? Is being an "idol" worth sacrificing your rights?"
Again, you're right, it does depend on the person. If the person is an idiot, then I guess to them, it is worth sacrificing basic human rights.


Sorry, you quoted my whole post, so I wasn't sure what you were responding to.


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## smile72 (Feb 2, 2013)

Ron said:


> If you're responding to "They did read the contracts before they joined did they? Is being an "idol" worth sacrificing your rights?"
> Again, you're right, it does depend on the person. If the person is an idiot, then I guess to them, it is worth sacrificing basic human rights.
> 
> 
> Sorry, you quoted my whole post, so I wasn't sure what you were responding to.


I was referring to the idol part, and to be fair, while the contract might be questionable, no one has brought Akimoto to court.


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## chyyran (Feb 2, 2013)

smile72 said:


> I was referring to the idol part, and to be fair, while the contract might be questionable, no one has brought Akimoto to court.


That's fair, if no one brings him to court, he can't be prosecuted for anything, but it's still quite wrong to deny those girls their human rights.
But I digress.

Those girls are still idiots though.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2013)

Ron said:


> No, they aren't legal, as those contracts prevent the girls from having sex, which directly goes against that provision, which specifically protects one's right to have sex.


I'm done with this thread, fair play, but to be fair with smile72, I added that to my reply AFTER he replied to it, so he had no chance to read the link or to respond to it. My apologies.


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## smile72 (Feb 2, 2013)

Ron said:


> That's fair, if no one brings him to court, he can't be prosecuted for anything, but it's still quite wrong to deny those girls their human rights.
> But I digress.
> 
> Those girls are still idiots though.


That's your opinion, I respect Tomo-chin. I also enjoy Yuko Oshima! Does them choosing to be an idol make them an idiot, in my opinion, no.


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## BORTZ (Feb 2, 2013)

what IS this, i feel like i just stuck my hand into something very very sticky.


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## Hyro-Sama (Feb 2, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> what IS this, i feel like i just stuck my hand into something very very sticky.


 
Don't you mean "Shitty"?


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## pyromaniac123 (Feb 2, 2013)

Everyone in Syria put your fucking guns down, Tomomi Itano is going to graduate from AKB48.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2013)

Just a few things reading through this thread.

Why are you acting like America is some ass backwards country and Japan is a shining beacon of hope? We're not perfect or anything but Japan is certainly not better. Like I don't hate Japan or anything but I'm not fucking stupid. It's not this mystical place of anime, video games, pop music, and love like everyone makes it out to be. They have a fair share of fucked up shit, just like us.

Pop artists here choose to be "sexualized". Or at least female singers in general. Like, I dunno, Adele (if you consider that pop?). Certainly not sexualized at all. Even if you look at someone like Katy Perry, she may dress a bit scantily and generally be considered a good looking girl, but she doesn't write music about getting banged. Her songs are usually just fluffy pop songs. Even then, dressing down a bit on stage is certainly not as bizarre as the set of mores I'm reading here.

Thirdly, weaboo alert.


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> There's just no one law concerning paparazzi's specifically


I think you'll find _papparazi_ is the plural. You haven't specified what they possess that is "specifically" something.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2013)

ProtoKun7 said:


> I think you'll find _papparazi_ is the plural. You haven't specified what they possess that is "specifically" something.


"There isn't a law strictly concerned with papparazi activity." - is that better, Doctor Grammar?


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> "There isn't a law strictly concerned with papparazi activity." - is that better, Doctor Grammar?


Much better.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2013)

ProtoKun7 said:


> Much better.


I was convinced that I had to add the "'s" to create a possessive from the base noun, as in, "Law concerning [whom?] papparazi's". Then again, this is a borrowed form, so the rule may or may not apply - I wasn't familiar with the applied use. You learn something new everyday!


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## Sicklyboy (Feb 3, 2013)

I smell a weeaboo.

I liked reading this thread for the weeaboo induced shitstorm.

But it's okay, I don't need anyone to let me back in through the door this time.  I remembered my keys.


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## gamefan5 (Feb 3, 2013)

This was one of the most entertaining threads I have ever read in here. Seriously. Shitstorm here's been crazy. XD


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## narutofan777 (Feb 3, 2013)

does that mean her fame will fade away?


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## Sicklyboy (Feb 3, 2013)

SHE IS DISHONOR TO FAMIRY


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## pasc (Feb 3, 2013)

Since I love doing this:

Who is that even I don't know ?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> SHE IS DISHONOR TO FAMIRY


SEPPUKU! _(or to be accurate, Jigai, as she is female)_


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## Hells Malice (Feb 3, 2013)

Smile I don't even know why you bother to post threads like this.
I mean seriously it's almost a Nintendo Fanboy level of flamebaiting. You have to know everyone here is just going to start ripping the thread apart.

Plus they make me want to beat myself to death with my Miku nendoroid plushie.
Just too weeaboo.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 3, 2013)

What the shit is this and why should I care? Is this about that dumb bitch shaving her head? Stupid girl, she should know that the only girl who can pull off a shaved head and still be hot is Natalie Portman in V for Vendetta.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> What the shit is this and why should I care? Is this about that dumb bitch shaving her head? Stupid girl, she should know that the only girl who can pull off a shaved head and still be hot is Natalie Portman in V for Vendetta.


At least she's more aerodynamic now - it's going to be easier to continue keeping her head in the clouds now.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 3, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> At least she's more aerodynamic now - it's going to be easier to continue keeping her head in the clouds now.


 
You mean shaving your head makes you go faster?!?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> You mean shaving your head makes you go faster?!?


I mean that she's clueless about what's going on around her and lives in a world of fantasy.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 3, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I mean that she's clueless about what's going on around her and lives in a world of fantasy.


 
Shut up, a shaved head is the equivalent of racing stripes.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Shut up, a shaved head is the equivalent of racing stripes.


...that's not true, it DOES lower friction...


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## Minox (Feb 3, 2013)

Ron said:


> No, they aren't legal, as those contracts prevent the girls from having sex, which directly goes against that provision, which specifically protects one's right to have sex.


The contracts do not prevent them from having sex, they're perfectly free to engage in sexual acts. However should they choose to do so they might face a termination of their employment.

I'm not a fan of idol groups and I do find it very silly that they have to remain "pure" but at the same time I can't really say I see much wrong with such a contract. People have the capability to choose for themselves, so why not let them?


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## Joe88 (Feb 3, 2013)

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...lict-%93semen-handshake%94-akb48-3596504.html

...


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2013)

I know I wasn't supposed to come back but whatever. 


Minox said:


> The contracts do not prevent them from having sex,_ they're perfectly free to engage in sexual acts. However should they choose to do so they might face a termination of their employment._


In other words,_ the contract forbids them from having sex_ - violating that term results in a penalty.



> I'm not a fan of idol groups and I do find it very silly that they have to remain "pure" but at the same time I can't really say I see much wrong with such a contract. People have the capability to choose for themselves, so why not let them?


Because not all possible choices are beneficial, freedom of choice is not always a good thing - that's why we have laws which we create ourselves to weed out the _bad choices_. Germans had a choice before World War II and they chose to support Hitler - bam, _Holocaust_. Freedom's all great as long as the choices are fair, just and created in accordance to the law - the freedom _to put whatever you want in a contract_ has to be rectified by the _freedom of the individual_ whom the contract concerns.

Every human being has rights and they should be considered Holy - they cannot be infringed upon, no matter what are the circumstances.

Her _"rejecting" _the right to _"have a boyfriend"_ was more so a necessary evil _(agreed upon at the age of 14, shouldn't your parents sign your contracts at that age?) _more so than a _real_ choice_._


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## Densetsu (Feb 3, 2013)

When someone "graduates" from AKB48, does that mean they go on to _harder_ drugs?






Joe88 said:


> http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...lict-%93semen-handshake%94-akb48-3596504.html
> 
> ...


WTF!? 





So...is this thread about Tomomi Itano, or is it about Minami Minegishi?


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## Veho (Feb 3, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> In other words,_ the contract forbids them from having sex_ - violating that term results in a penalty.


Technically, it doesn't forbid them from having sex, it forbids them from getting _caught_. Because they have to uphold the "idol" image as part of their job. 

Human beings have the right to sex but "having your cake and eating it" is _not_ a right. So if the deal explicitly says "we will be giving you money in exchange for you not having sex," you don't get to have sex and still demand to get paid. There's nothing _preventing_ you from having sex, you just can't expect to stay in the group. The choice is yours. 

Because, unlike other occupations where your private life doesn't affect your ability to perform your job, for idols, having sex _severely hampers_ the ability to be an innocent virgin. And that is their job. It's in the job description. So at the very least, don't get caught.


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## smile72 (Feb 4, 2013)

Veho said:


> Technically, it doesn't forbid them from having sex, it forbids them from getting _caught_. Because they have to uphold the "idol" image as part of their job.
> 
> Human beings have the right to sex but "having your cake and eating it" is _not_ a right. So if the deal explicitly says "we will be giving you money in exchange for you not having sex," you don't get to have sex and still demand to get paid. There's nothing _preventing_ you from having sex, you just can't expect to stay in the group. The choice is yours.
> 
> Because, unlike other occupations where your private life doesn't affect your ability to perform your job, for idols, having sex _severely hampers_ the ability to be an innocent virgin. And that is their job. It's in the job description. So at the very least, don't get caught.


Exactly, that is how the idol industry is, you can't expect to be payed if you violate the deal, you won't get payed, most idols (excluding Ebisu Muscats) are supposed to give a fantasy of being pure, being a virgin, hence why there are no 30 or 40 year old idols...


Densetsu said:


> When someone "graduates" from AKB48, does that mean they go on to _harder_ drugs?
> WTF!?
> So...is this thread about Tomomi Itano, or is it about Minami Minegishi?


It was supposed to be about Tomo-chin, but then it fucking got derailed, and I let it....


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2013)

smile72 said:


> It was supposed to be about Tomo-chin, but then it fucking got derailed, and I let it....


At least we had a meaningful discussion, god forbid if we talk about something loosely connected to the main subject on an internet forum. 

Don't feel bad mate, we didn't mean to mess up your thread.


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## smile72 (Feb 4, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> At least we had a meaningful discussion, god forbid if we talk about something loosely connected to the main subject on an internet forum.
> 
> Don't feel bad mate, we didn't mean to mess up your thread.


But still....she's graduating, let's all at least wish her well. I'm gonna miss you Tomo-chin.


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## Hells Malice (Feb 4, 2013)

smile72 said:


> But still....she's graduating, let's all at least wish her well. I'm gonna miss you Tomo-chin.


 
Just for you I searched my picture folder for three choice relevant pictures.



Spoiler


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## smile72 (Feb 4, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Just for you I searched my picture folder for three choice relevant pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


You haven't wished Tomo-chin success after AKB yet!


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## Sicklyboy (Feb 4, 2013)

In other news...


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> In other news...


They say the 5th time that happens, the world ends... 

Oh, I'm terrified...! It could happen at any moment! Well, not ANY moment... just during the full moon... and it can't be a leap-year... and it never happens in the winter - that's when the penguins go on their happy travels - the eggs are already hatched at that point, the mating season is earlier...

It's a tough life.


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## Veho (Feb 4, 2013)

Sicklyboy said:


> In other news...


You do know that's an Onion article, right? Linux developers don't _really_ get laid.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2013)

Veho said:


> You do know that's an Onion article, right? Linux developers don't _really_ get laid.


_Pewf!_

So the Mayans _were_ right about _some_ things. That's a relief.


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