# All Wii backup loader/Waninkoko discussion goes here.



## jumpman17 (Sep 20, 2008)

All Wii backup loader/Waninkoko discussion goes here.

Do not create new topics.

Do not flame other members.

Flames will result in suspension.


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## Brian117 (Sep 20, 2008)

Wewt...first post.

All I really want to say is, This is the most useful homebrew...ever.

It's a shame Waninkoko quit, really.

Waninkoko...why are you hurting others, when ONE person did it? WE didn't do it. SOMEONE did. So why blame all of us and discontinue the project?

I really wish I could talk on MSN with you. But with all the noobz and flaming assholes that add you, I wouldn't want to bother you as much as you are already from this.

Just please reconsider what you're doing. If you want to quit, sure go ahead. We won't stop you, it's your project, your sweat and blood, YOURS. Not ours. But if you want to continue it and keep it privately until official release. All of us would love you till the very end. (As if we haven't already)

EDIT 2: I just wanted to say thank you for your hard work, all the time you've wasted, and all the programming and frustrations that probably occurred. I'm with you till the very end in your achievements. You probably don't get thank you's often...and I can understand how that feels really, I do tons of work in life, and half the time the idiot never says thank you for whoever I worked for. I hope you don't look at us that way because we RESPECT you. 

And to be honest...I think one reason people don't say thank you is because they know you're to busy to read their post.

Or maybe you do read them, and just never reply? Anyways, WE LOVE YOU WANINKOKO!


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## War (Sep 20, 2008)

I have mixed feelings about this. I just can't believe someone would leak the beta though... who would do that, and why?


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## Brian117 (Sep 20, 2008)

Warcueid said:
			
		

> I have mixed feelings about this. I just can't believe someone would leak the beta though... who would do that, and why?



I would like to know the same exact thing.

Reading from TehSkeen, they said that a member of GBAtemp leaked it...In my honest opinion, I think it is the member "naes".

He/she was the very first to tell us about it, and post links.

Mods, that wasn't a flame. So don't suspend me. I was simply stating a fact.

EDIT: I would also like to sarcastically thank the leaker for putting GBAtemp on the hot spot with this. If you type in Google, "Wii homebrew backup loader", Most blogs/webpages say, "A member of GBAtemp leaked the loader".

Congrats on ruining GBAtemp also. You're on a roll ^^


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## kangarookangaroo (Sep 20, 2008)

I hope he releases the FINAL version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 otherwise I am going to have to buy a modchip... (If he doesn't say anything in the next 2 weeks, I am just getting a wiikey.)


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## science (Sep 20, 2008)

I wish this wasn't leaked because it caused GBAtemp to be down all day.

GBAtemp > leaked ISO loader


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## GexX2 (Sep 20, 2008)

Naes didn't leak it, he posted it from another site.


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## Christen (Sep 20, 2008)

So one person has to go and ruin it for everyone.. well that's just grand. 

I hope Waninkoko changes his mind, although I doubt it. At least there is still the USB ISO loader to look forward to, as long as some asshole doesn't leak that.


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## Brian117 (Sep 20, 2008)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Naes didn't leak it, he posted it from another site.



Well he/she shouldn't of done that. So everyone should be blaming him for putting GBAtemp on the spot right now...


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Brian117 said:
			
		

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I don't think we should do that unless we are sure he's responsible for it..
I mean, the guy/gal maybe just submitted the news, and couldn't know what would happen..

Don't point fingers at anybody until you're sure!!


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## Opium (Sep 20, 2008)

Brian117 said:
			
		

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If Waninkoko had said "ahh well it's out now, enjoy it while I work on fixing the bugs", then everybody would be praising Naes and whoever it was that originally leaked it. But just because it didn't go that way now suddenly everyone is on the condemnation train.

Leaking software that someone is working on is not a nice thing to do. GBAtemp didn't leak it though, it was already out there on the internet. GBAtemp did help spread it though and it took down the download link when it was clear what Waninkoko's opinion of the leak was.


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## George290506 (Sep 20, 2008)

I hope he will rethink and continue it. This Loader will be his honor.


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## atomiccow (Sep 20, 2008)

I stopped lurking GBAtemp for just a little bit, and all hell breaks loose..?



			
				kangarookangaroo said:
			
		

> I hope he releases the FINAL version
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Just get a Wiikey, it's worth it.

Ahem.
*Grabs soapbox and flame proof asbestos suit*
You are all taking this way too quickly.
For now, let's just set aside everything else except for the matter at hand.  Let's ignore the implications of a backup loader, including developers abandoning the system, Nintendo finally having a concrete reason to completely ban homebrew, and everything else.
Regardless of how much you like Waninkoko, he's done a lot for your scene, and this loader was obviously a giant step.  It's understandable that there would be a large backlash as the result of the cancellation.
So what's the best thing you can do about it, whether you like Waninkoko or not?
Chill out.  Get off GBAtemp for a bit.  Get some fresh air for a bit.
The supporters need to stop trying to coerce Waninkoko into releasing something while he's obviously (and if I may say, righteously) pissed off about the leak.
The anti-Waninkoko people need to just pipe down and stop adding fuel to the fire.

If you guys chill out, and let the whole thing fizzle down a bit before trying to convince Waninkoko to release it by donating your house, I'm sure something good will come of this.
*End soapbox*

..I really didn't say much there, I know.  It's a moot point, people are still going to be going crazy about it.

TL;DR:  Stop screaming bloody about the backup loader.

EDIT:  And I suppose this is a good example on why leaks are never good.


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## coolbho3000 (Sep 20, 2008)

Way to put it in the Testing Area...


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

My first reaction when I heard about this was, "Are you _serious_?" This is easily the most anticipated Wii homebrew release since ever, and he gets all pissy and denies it to the entire community because _one_ person (Who had to get it through _him_ or someone _he_ gave it to in the first place!) leaked it? Not to mention that the primary use of the release is for piracy, (That is, _giving someone else's developed work to the masses without their permission_.) anyway. Common sense dictates that the higher the demand of the application is, the more likely it is to be leaked, and the more careful you have to be when choosing people to give betas to. I hardly see the logic in punishing anyone who anticipated the release because one random person leaked it. That is, of course, unless one is merely striving for attention and is taking advantage of the opportunity.

Either way, it's his code, and he's in full right to not release it. He's done a lot of good for the community, and he deserves respect for that. I just think he's being a dick about this for no good reason.


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## Prophet (Sep 20, 2008)

No honor amongst thieves I guess. I feel bad for Waninkoko, he's a cool guy, but it seems a bit naive of him to think that he is serving only a community of mature individuals. No matter what endeavors you pursue, you will always have to deal with (some) douches who only care about themselves. I write a lot in many circles and I am plagiarized often. Sure it pisses me off, sure I want to just horde my stuff sometimes, but what good would that do? Whats the point of creating something if you have no audience to share it with? So yeah I can feel him on that, but at the same time I'm sure that he started this project with a goal in mind; whatever that goal maybe, I hope he resolves to achieve it. Not for the douches, not even for the community, but for the sake of accomplishing what he set out to do. Goodluck to him.


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

> Either way, it's his code, and he's in full right to not release it. He's done a lot of good for the community, and he deserves respect for that. *I just think he's being a dick about this for no good reason.*


And I believe that sentences like this are the main reason why people quit on any homebrew/hacking/translating projects..

I don't think the guy is the dick at all..I don't own a Wii, and I really don't care for this leak, but I understand Waninkoko completely..If he wanted to complete the project before releasing it, and trusted the people he gave beta for testing, he ended up being highly dissapointed and hurt..
All of you calling him names and bitching about it won't help convincing him to continuing and finishing the loader..
I swear, if I were him, I'd complete it, made bunch of videos how perfectly it works, but never release it..


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## Longbaugh (Sep 20, 2008)

The leak originated on /v from what I understand.  Once again going to show 4chan is a scum hole that should be swept into a grease trap.

Anyway you guys should just thank Wanikoko for what work he has done for homebrew instead of feeling cheated because he wont help you steal games.  It's not like I've never pirated anything in my life but a lot of people are acting like theyre owed an isoloader and that disgusts the hell out of me. Instead you should be thanking him for giving us stuff like wad manager, mii/savegame extractors, region changers and the like.  If you feel _that_ cheated go buy a modchip, end of story.


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## Brainy142 (Sep 20, 2008)

Man that leaker was a bastard. Now GBATEMP takes the fall


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## DarkSzero (Sep 20, 2008)

I have no idea why Waninkoko were developing that backup loader, to let a leak affect him like that.
Well, for me this won't make much difference because I have no use for a backup loader from DVDs, since I have a modchip.


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> I swear, if I were him, I'd complete it, made bunch of videos how perfectly it works, but never release it..


You'd _be a dick about it_, exactly. Justified/rightful or not, it's still being a dick to punish an entire community because one person hurt you.


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## Lionhawk (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> I swear, if I were him, I'd complete it, made bunch of videos how perfectly it works, but never release it..



Way too inmature. Though imho in this world you are going to meet all kind of people, so even though if you trusted a bunch of guys and one failed you, you can't just throw everything to garbage because of one guy. Though I respect his decision and he is in his right to feel as he please but maybe he should take it more easily and think things over again.

I know this is no comparison, but Doom3 was leaked, and though is out, and many people bought it. The point is is not the first time neither the last time someone will leak a software in development. Now viewing things in a more objective side, is not his mistake for choosing a guy who would "betray" him, though instead of abandoning the project, he should just realize that he cannot trust people with something that is important to him lightly, and even though maybe he didn't choose them on the fly, maybe he was strict, then he needs to be a little more strict.

So in the end, I think he should relax and think things over again.


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## Longbaugh (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

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Instead of intimating that people are dicks you could always buy a modchip at gbatemps partner site

http://www.consolesource.com/ecomm/catalog...-p-1-c-266.html


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

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You got it right man....I was trying to point out just that, I'd be a dick!!
If I were him, I'd have every right to be a dick..
And to make it right, he's  not punishing you!! He didn't take anything from you, it's not like you owned this loader and he decided to take it from you....He decided not to give it at all, because he thinks it shouldn't be done at this point..
Maybe he'll change his mind after some time..but it's all up to him, all of you won't make any difference, and calling him names won't help, I already said that!!

@Lionhawk, yeah, I agree it's immature, but I was in a very similar situation as Wanikoko, and I just want to say that people are mostly ungrateful fucks..I know there are bunch of people that are supportive and appreciate good work, but most of them will call you names if you don't upgrade on time, or call you out if you decide not to release YOUR own work..It's like they think they own it and not Wanikoko, like they must get it if it's already developed......
I hate that attitude.....that guy did for Wii scene probably more than anybody else (or than most of them), and people here complain about the loader, and his decision, swearing and being rude..

I'm just saying that if I were him, all this would just piss me more.....


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## Diablo1123 (Sep 20, 2008)

I personally believe that it sucks to have a project you're working on leaked, and see that as enough reason to discontinue it.
I'm just hoping he doesn't stop programming Wii homebrew.

Besides, seems like a modchip actually has higher compatibility.


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## Sonicslasher (Sep 20, 2008)

I'll wait till I hear his reason (all I've heard a bits here and there). Then, and only then, will I comment.


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## Lionhawk (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> @Lionhawk, yeah, I agree it's immature, but I was in a very similar situation as Wanikoko, and I just want to say that people are mostly ungrateful fucks..I know there are bunch of people that are supportive and appreciate good work, but most of them will call you names if you don't upgrade on time, or call you out if you decide not to release YOUR own work..It's like they think they own it and not Wanikoko, like they must get it if it's already developed......
> I hate that attitude.....that guy did for Wii scene probably more than anybody else (or than most of them), and people here complain about the loader, and his decision, swearing and being rude..



Is understandable... but when you are doing things for free you do it for the people that support you, the people that is grateful. Is more than common to find some... people that don't respect the effort of a developer, but that's a daily basis in this world, for every job, and for every activity. Is understandable the anger but why let die something that you wanted to give to the people that cares about you?

Is like wanting to make a teddy bear with your own hands and giving it to your girlfriend, and a bunch of the people that you think respects you comes and tell you that it sucks, that it's gay, etc. etc. So you are going to stop finishing it and delivering it to your girlfriend that she will be grateful and happy about it just because a bunch of idiots?. That's what i mean when i say he needs to relax and think things over. Though everyone is a different mind and a different world so which ever is he decision is acceptable and respectable.


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## Jordan10la (Sep 20, 2008)

Wow I knew none of this. I noticed GBAtemp was down but had no clue why. I hadn't been here or to /v/ (flames ensue) so I didn't have any clue what was going on. I respect the creators right to cease working on this project but I don't think he should. I, and many others, would greatly appreciate it. I didn't believe it was even possible but now that it is I want it.


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## Jordan10la (Sep 20, 2008)

I had just found about this lie kan hour ago. I noticed GBAtemp was down but I had no clue why. I respect the creators right to discontinue his loader but I wish he wouldn't. I don't get why he would. Get angry I get but it's not everyone in the community that released it. And not everyone takes it so ligthtly and thinks we deserve it. I would highly appreciate it and I get how a lot of hard work goes into it and it is his work.

Also are we allowed to discuss trying the leak? I personally have not tried it but I hear soem have and I'm very curious but do not want a bricked Wii.

EDIT: Oh, I thought my last post didn't go through. So I retyped it from memory... My bad.
EDIT2: Thanks to whoever removed my first post that I didn't tihnk went through.


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## Banger (Sep 20, 2008)

He was rightful to discontinue the project. I mean it was his project so he can stop developing it any time he wishs for whatever reason. If he had a cold and because of said cold he wanted to stop developing that is his right to do so.


I still do not see why everyone is flipping out over it. If you want to see a Backup loader the best thing you can do if you want something bad enough is do it yourself. And if you are unwilling to put your time and effort into learning and want someone else to do all the work for you then well you did not want it bad enough.


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## AndreXL (Sep 20, 2008)

Lionhawk said:
			
		

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Thanks for such an intelligent post, Lionhawk. My thoughts about this issue is very much the same.
Good thing we're on GBAtemp. If this were some other forum, we would just end up with posts that just throws gas on the fire.


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> If I were him, I'd have every right to be a dick..
> You never have the right to be a dick. That's why being a dick is generally considered a bad thing.
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I don't have any interest in modchips or this release in general, as I've already purchased the few Wii games that have piqued my interest. The situation surrounding the release is what provoked me to post.


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## JJBro1 (Sep 20, 2008)

waninkoko quit? When was this? Are you serious? Like WTF?


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## Rayder (Sep 20, 2008)

Ahh....so this is why GBAtemp has been down, eh?   I was kinda wondering what was going on.....pesky work eating all my time and leaving me out of the know.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





So, it was a loader that let you play ISO's on the Wii?  Yeah, I could see how it being leaked would anger the dude who made it if he wasn't ready to release it.  Now Nintendo  knows about it and will work to release a firmware that will disable its ability to function that much sooner.

I don't have or even want a Wii, so it's moot to me, but I can see how something like this would stir up a lot of interest.  But instead of punishing the community for the leak, he should find out which one of his beta testers leaked it and throttle the dude.  I mean, he would just HAVE to know that something this useful to pirates would spread like wildfire throughout ANY community dedicated to such things if a working version of the program reaches a download link.  I know a few people dying to be able to play games for free on their Wii, but are terrified about opening up their precious console to install a MOD chip. So yeah, no wonder it's making such an impact.

It's just too bad it has to be the one site I care about that gets bogged down because of it.


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## ryuhosuke (Sep 20, 2008)

it is too bad that the creator has to quit, i mean i know it must be be a lot of work and time for him to release this nice loader for you guys who either have the new wiis and can't be modded and such that, but has to quit. I am sorry for this creator and i hope he does decides to continue this project, but if not then we all know why and he does have a right to do so. We all take things for granted and never say thanks sometimes. I just hope that everyone gets to use it to its fullest abilities and hope that one day people would learn and just keep things for themselves and really not just post things without the originator's permission.


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## Apex (Sep 20, 2008)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> "Well look what you did you little shits, now you get nothing. Are you proud of yourselves?" when it was only _one_ person who actually wronged him is what bugs me.


One person wrong him, but given the opportunity, how many do you think WOULD have wrong him. I'm sure if anyone of us, if getting ahold of the beta, probably would have done something to share it. Who we choose to share it with isn't the question, because sharing it period is leaking it. He has every right to be upset, but he seriously should have known it would happen; it was unavoidable. 


I don't know the whole situation in it's entirety, but I think that both sides have reasons to be upset, but each really should have foreseen something like this happening. Hopefully he changes his mind and continues his project, but if he chooses not to, someone else will probably pick up where he left off. Sorry for the negative attitude.


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## GeekyGuy (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

> ...This is easily the most anticipated Wii homebrew release since ever, and he gets all pissy and denies it to the entire community because _one_ person (Who had to get it through _him_ or someone _he_ gave it to in the first place!) leaked it? Not to mention that the primary use of the release is for piracy, (That is, _giving someone else's developed work to the masses without their permission_.) anyway....
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> ...Either way, it's his code, and he's in full right to not release it. He's done a lot of good for the community, and he deserves respect for that. I just think he's being a dick about this for no good reason.



^This 

The irony of this situation is overwhelming.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Also, in response to what Rayder had to say...this whole thing is destined to change console-gaming piracy, at least so far as it concerns Nintendo. It's one thing that folks are able to play games with a flashcard on the DS, but the Wii is now their flagship, and if Nintendo's past actions in conjunction with worldwide government agencies has shown us anything, they can and will bite back. Making it this easy to pirate Wii games is sure to hit a very sensitive nerve with one huge mother-fucking corporation, and things might start getting hot around here. All I can say is, I never really worried about being a member of GBATemp...until now.


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## ViRGE (Sep 20, 2008)

Humm, I haven't been keeping up on every single thing that has gone on, but it's a shame to see him stop development of the softloader, I had been looking forward to the final version. I'm a bit surprised that he's surprised that it was leaked, with something this major it was bound to happen (and indeed it does happen quite often), but that's a hard lesson to learn. I suspect (and hope) that this is just an emoragequit thing, he's too talented of a coder to lose.

In either case he's done a great service for all of us with the softloader, if he doesn't pick it up hopefully there's someone talented enough out there that can.


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## Prax (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm taking my ball and I'm going home!!! Waaaaa!

Get serious.  Someone screwed up. Someone threw a hissy fit. Someone else will do him up one better. No, not tomorrow, but eventually.  Idiots are everywhere. Don't be surprised by 'em... especially on the intarwebs.


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## AshuraZro (Sep 20, 2008)

Apex said:
			
		

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Believe it or not, not everyone must instantly tell and share with others what they've been trusted with. Big things are harder to contain, but not impossible.


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## darkdreamr (Sep 20, 2008)

no use in whining and giving up.. what kind of respect do you get outta that?  
is wan a child or something? someone who hasnt matured enough to let this kinda crap not bother him?   i mean seriously. grow a pair and lash back to claim your name on this before someone else does.  jeez


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## yikkyon (Sep 20, 2008)

I look away for two minutes and THIS HAPPENS
This is sad... This is really sad...
He can do whatever he want's with it!!!
What Waninkoko does with the project, In my opinion I'm cool with it...
Remember that WAD Manager!?
Remember the Custom firmware for the wii!?
Remember Downloading VC Games and taking them out while leaving no traces at all?
Remember the wonder years where it was only Waninkoko and Bushing
When Bushing quit the ISO Loader and Waninkoko took over
Or you know what? Remember BUYING the damn games... I sure did!
If Waninkoko goes the wii scene is SCREWED 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





EDIT: Oh Yeah I forgot... Waninkoko probably is just very angry...
I'm sure he'll be doing some other homebrew after a short break...


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## Calogero91 (Sep 20, 2008)

Lol, I read this whole thread and I just can't stop laughing. Everyones whining like its the end of the world. Am I the only one who finds this funny?


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## ZPE (Sep 20, 2008)

Calogero91 said:
			
		

> Lol, I read this whole thread and I just can't stop laughing. Everyones whining like its the end of the world. Am I the only one who finds this funny?



I find it pretty pathetic tbh. Wan gets flamed once again and there's no moderation on site. Let me say something I've heard elitists say here on GBAtemp, "beggars can't be choosers" well I guess you're in that herd right now. Have fun.


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## zidane_genome (Sep 20, 2008)

I have a full guide posted in my sig (other topic)...

I will support Waninkoko for all his work, and if asks me to take down my guide, I will be more than happy to.

I'll admit, I was a little aprehensive about downloading it, but after waiting a few hours, I figured it wasn't a hoax, and that it was leaked, and the best thing I could do was at least help the retards who flooded the board here with the same questions OVER and OVER and OVER...

I'm not well skilled in Wii programming, but if there's ever anything I can do to help Waninkoko with any of his projects, I will be the first to step up.


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## Talaria (Sep 20, 2008)

Wah wah, grow up.


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## dinofan01 (Sep 20, 2008)

zidane_genome said:
			
		

> I have a full guide posted in my sig (other topic)...
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hey uhh why isnt there a step 2 in there? A little joke or something or just forgot?


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## zidane_genome (Sep 20, 2008)

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It's a joke... read the beginning of step 3 carefully...

little thing to make fun of the whole ****ing claiming all of ******ko's apps brick every Wii that they touch... lol


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## Nottulys (Sep 20, 2008)

I seriously think that he done this himself, orchastrated by Waninkoko.  He probably didnt want to be held accountable for whatever(whenever they get ahold of this Loader) Nintendo will do.  Watch, they'll probably patch this, soon, then someone will have a "leaked" walkaround for whatever.  Very clever, and props to Waninkoko, the Dark Alex for the Wii.....scratch that, he has his own name in the Homebrew History Books now.


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## dinofan01 (Sep 20, 2008)

zidane_genome said:
			
		

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oh ok. I was tripping out because I didnt think you would make  a mistake like that.


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## yikkyon (Sep 20, 2008)

Well at least things will be a little more calm
But I'm still disturbed by the fact that most people never thanked Waninkoko 
for things like the WAD Manager.
People are being babies on both sides...
Waninkoko is pretty much holding up the wii scene single handedly
And I can what some people were going with this attitude to get Waninkoko back his feet
But someone leaked HIS code meaning it's an illeagal offense (not that anything else is legal)
Waninkoko is really upset and like I mentioned before...
Either a vacation or a short break would do him some good...
If he quits the chances of ANOTHER wii homebrew is FUCKED


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## quepaso (Sep 20, 2008)

who is this waninuko guy?  I was told some guy named NAES is the actual coder and that he leaked it before waninuko could release his and now he is upset.  We should all wait for NAES to update the iso loader!  What a guy!


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## JJBro1 (Sep 20, 2008)

quepaso said:
			
		

> who is this waninuko guy?  I was told some guy named NAES is the actual coder and that he leaked it before waninuko could release his and now he is upset.  We should all wait for NAES to update the iso loader!  What a guy!


*hands you flame shield*


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## zidane_genome (Sep 20, 2008)

he'll need more than just a shield... he'll need the entire flame RETARDant getup...


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## JJBro1 (Sep 20, 2008)

zidane_genome said:
			
		

> he'll need more than just a shield... he'll need the entire flame RETARDant getup...


lol yea so true.


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## cyanidecordial (Sep 20, 2008)

all in all this homebrew would be great, but if you just step back for a second and see what effects this would have on the wii, you might not be as keen on it. There are two very possible things that can come out of this.. whose heard of the dreamcast? they went broke cause you were able to run games off it without any physical modding. Not to say this would make the big N bankrupt but it will have an immediate effect on its sales and hinder the amount of games coming out for it. Also, do you think nintendo is going to stand for this? Theyre going to crush this ASAFP cause the wii has a firmware that can be UPGRADED and they can. What this could lead to is a completely new OS which has no homebrew or free VC possibilities, or at the very least a massive firmware upgrade which is going to be mandatory for all new games.. this hack is going to end up shooting everyone in the foot, if it ever comes out in its complete state youll see some repercussions.


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## LagunaCid (Sep 20, 2008)

Hah. So I was right when I said on the /v/ topic that the leaker would ruin everything for us all. Go figure.


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## JJBro1 (Sep 20, 2008)

not to sound like a noob and reading into things too much but does this quote from waninkoko sound like he's reconsidering? 

The driver is not finished, nor the source code (needs to be cleaned, commented, remove shitty code, etc.). I was going to release the source (as it is licensed under the GPL) with the backup-loader binary but now I'll have to release it when I have it completely finished (except you want a very shitty source).

Also, it's not my fault that the guy who leaked it didn't release the source too.


EDIT: If I have free time tomorrow, I'll release the first version of the source (I don't like to violate the GPL).


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## mxk1000 (Sep 20, 2008)

so far i have test 3 games and they work
all PAL games on my PAL Wii 3.3e firmware.

Sports island 
Pool Party
Table football


not exactly the top games but, its the ones i wanted to try


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## skawo96 (Sep 20, 2008)

About what you have to discuss...
If Wanin will countinue it then good
But now just leave him, his applications alone.
If you want to flame Waninkoko, first uninstall all WADs you pirated and make new Duplicate Channels and throw all region free games out of a window. 
Personally I don't see the purpose of the topic, maybe only that to not spam Wii Hacking but still it'll became only a flame'n'spam thread

It's a very sad day in GBAtemp's and Wii Scene history. Very sad.


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## Cid2mizard (Sep 20, 2008)

You'll never have let this topic topic, you might even remove it. If you know the name of the leak bah tell that person arrives at his other

gbatemp is totaly responsible :/


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## bluesharpie (Sep 20, 2008)

If I was Waninkoko I would release a "final version" that would just brick the Wii. That would be the sweetest revenge


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## Athlon-pv (Sep 20, 2008)

bluesharpie said:
			
		

> If I was Waninkoko I would release a "final version" that would just brick the Wii. That would be the sweetest revenge




You mean just do stupid things like the other dude did stupid things, very mature


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## TheStump (Sep 20, 2008)

Oh the IRONY!


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## elkelkelk (Sep 20, 2008)

Waninkoko should have foreseen this O.o

He should have made small mods to each test beta he distributed so he'd know who leaked it. 

And for him to drop the project because one person decided to leak the beta is incredibly kindergarten of him.

I'm getting a chip anyway.

I had respect for Waninkoko until he decided to be incredibly lame about something he should have prepared for.


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## emever (Sep 20, 2008)

bluesharpie said:
			
		

> If I was Waninkoko I would release a "final version" that would just brick the Wii. That would be the sweetest revenge



If he release a version that only brick the Wii we will have the news from internet and only few Wii will be bricked. Compliments for your idea!!!


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## Heran Bago (Sep 20, 2008)

emever said:
			
		

> bluesharpie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it would be a fine way to get back, but only if he releases it as another leaked beta.

Waninkoko has decided not to take this as a huge beta test I guess. =P


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## paOol (Sep 20, 2008)

umm, anyone wanna fill me in on what happened?


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## Rebound (Sep 20, 2008)

Someone leaked the beta of the loader now waninkoko is making us all pay for it by abandoning the project


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## bailli (Sep 20, 2008)

zidane_genome just a little reply to your post from the closed thread:


			
				zidane_genome said:
			
		

> Ok, for every single one of you who are bashing idaWaninkoko...
> 
> you are not to use ANY of his tools anymore...
> 
> ...



Okay, let's first check Waninkokos apps:

WAD Un/Installer/Manager: To be honest I don't even know what the interface looks like because I have never even downloaded it.

Custom IOS (dvd/media player): Is that meant as ja joke? nitrotux removed the DVD read limit first, and the mplayer port with DVD player capabilities is whole the work of Team Twiizers.

Mii Extract/Install: Whatever - I don't like Miis anyway

Savegame Extractor/Installer: Ah the first useful program. But soon to be useless by patching the system menu to copy protected saves anyway (i.e. newest GeckoOS)

NAND Dumper: Did you really mean NAND Dumper or rather NAND *FS* Dumper? Because I don't know what you want to do with a dump of your NAND without any useful way to burn it back to the chip... When the first fully failsafe recovery method by patching boot2 by buhsing & friends is released (and that's something you will definitely not seen from Waninkoko - I am not saying he isn't capable (beacuse I don't know wheather he is) - but Team Twiizers spent already much time working on that feature and it is surely not an easy task) - you also will get an option to dump your NAND because the current NAND dumpers (yes there are several) cannot completely block IOS writing access to the NAND, so your dump could get corrupted.
If you meant the NAND FS Dumper (btw the first tool that brought tension between Waninkoko Team Twiizers) than see above: Never used any VC/WiiWare crap. In fact I doubt most of you use it yourself - I don't think it is that interesting to rip VC/WiiWare titles you already own.

WiiFrii: Nice tool - till GeckoOS.

Okay that was your list of your Waninkoko-apps of choice. Now let's check out the Region Changer.

When it comes to GBAtemp I usually expect that (almost) everybody just reads the part he wants to know, so let's get that story straight:
The problem that bushing pointed out about the region changer was that it didn't force the install of the corresponding the system menu, leaving the console in a semi-bricked state. Once again bushing told Waninkoko he could make a complete region changer if changed the two files that make a wii unique (SYSCONF and settings.txt) *together* with a downgrade to another region system menu, but Waninkoko spilt it in two programs.
But back to the semi-bricked state: If I remeber correctly the problem was that the semi-brick would result in a full brick if the SYSCONF or settings.txt would get damaged. On a normal console the files would just be recreated. So Team Twiizers claim was that the semi-bricked console could further result in a full brick if you keep your console in that state. And that's a claim I want you to disprove. Nobody said that it would cause a large amount of bricked consoles.

To finish my little speech let's have a look at the non-existent contribution of Team Twiizers:

Twilight Hack: Any questions?

Homebrew channel: see above...

DVDx/mplayer with DVD support: Okay I already mentioned that above. By now you should have noticed that your precious backup loader also needs DVDx installed...

I have to admit that the amount of released (and usefull to the regular enduser) programs is rather small. But you have to remember that they often share information about the Wii's system leading to other programs:

- SYSCONF and settings.txt => Region Changer
- bug in in the IOS filesystem module => NAND FS Dumper => here I come VC/WiiWare piracy
- DVDx => backup loader

So let's face it: if you want it or not - you wouldn't have either VC/WiiWare piracy nor the backup loader without Team Twiizers (and be assured Team Twiizers doesn't like that fact either).

But I don't want to end my post on such negative terms about Waninkoko. I think he is a decent guy but maybe too much of an opportunist. He wrote some decent tools but the sentiment here at GBAtemp usually declares him as a (half-)god and Team Twiizers as the bad guys. That's not true. Without Team Twiizers Waninkoko wouldn't be anywere near where he is now.

Oh and before I forget it: When I talk about homebrew I usually mean media players, emulators/virtual machines, games and such, but the majority of the people here don't have any use for these programs...

Just a small comment on topic: I'm glad he abondoned the project but I feel it is terribly childish...

Thanks for reading all this


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## falcon!! (Sep 20, 2008)

Where can i find a compatiblity list for this loader? I've only tried one game and it worked (excite truck pal)
Any other games working? SSBB?


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## Timmy!!& (Sep 20, 2008)

Let me say first, I don't need this app, I've got a Wiikey. I don't care if it's continued or not...

But how old is Waninkoko? Is he like an 8 year old boy/girl? 
If you're 'working' with homebrew, there's always a chance things get leaked, surely when you let someone beta-test them. And what does it matter? Be grateful about it when people like your work. But instead he blames GBAtemp, which has done nothing wrong imo. He let someone have a beta version, how else could it have leaked? He made an error, not us by spreading it around. If he were a little bit more mature, he'd know that. 

As for blaming GBAtemp, I only applaud GBAtemp by showing the news and someone posting it. Among other things, this is a news site, and everyone expects to get new apps asap. If a backup loader comes by, why not post it? Because Waninkoko is gonna cry if someone posts it and he will stop working on the project? So be it, I have a little bit of faith that someone eventually will make the same thing, only he/she will be a little bit more mature. For now, we should accept this reaction of Waninkoko and ban everything from him on GBAtemp, and leave him for the 8 year old boy/girl he is. And until there's a backup loader from someone else, just install a mod-chip


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## Tripwire (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi guys a few questions:

1: Can i install the CIOS on a pal wii?

2: How safe is it to install?

3: What program do i need to install the CIOS?

Hope someone will answer my questions


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

I will just say that I'm very much disgusted by most of people who posted in this thread, the short talk I've had with Lionhawk shows how people worth releasing homebrews and finishing projects think!
I thank you Lionhawk for that post, you are right indeed, and I admit it..But, to prove my posts, read trough most of the posts after our talk!

I see all this lurkers waking up, starting to post their opinions, and bashing the guy for nothing.....The whole community can bash you, every single one of you for not doing NOTHING, because you didn't contribute to community with anything!! Waninkoko did lots of stuff, and decided to stop his project (whatever the reason it is, in this case the leak) and you bash him, yet most of you did nothing.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think he'll finish this homebrew, but keep it for himself for some time..Because it actually allows him to play downloaded games..Only  time will show will he really stand by his decision not to release it or change his mind..

And I'm so happy that most of you aren't part of every-days GBAtemp community, but lurkers, this community (regular part) is far too nice for all of you....


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't have a Wii so don't really have any use for this but I do want to throw in my two cents worth.  Alot of the comments in this thread, mostly from very new members with very few posts, complaining that the loader isn't going to be released are from people who's only involvement in the scene comes from downloading free games via torrent/usenet.

How many of you are actually part of the Wii hacking scene?  Most scene members don't do things for the public, they do them for the scene.  What you're getting are crumbs, and like any ungrateful starving person you're complaining when the crumbs are taken away because for some unknown reason you believe that you "deserve" the loader simply because, well, because.  Why should he have to release it to you?  He's put alot of blood, sweat and tears into figuring out what he knows - only to have someone looking to be seen as "1337" spreading it around to undeserving people.

How many of you actually appreciate what he's done?  Other than he's making something that let you play free Wii games.

It really shows you how much the piracy scene has changed now that it's so much easier with the net.  I've been involved in various scenes since the Amiga/ST days and things a very different.  A long time ago free games were just a very small part of it.  You actually had to work to get the rights that you're claiming you deserve.

If most people here had to give "references", past history, group affiliations, work on 3:1 or 2:1 ratios for your stuff and a whole heap of other things how many would still be doing it?  The people in the scene do things for other people in the scene, mostly because other people in the scene will appreciate what that hacker/cracker/phreaker has done based mostly on the technical acheivement, rather than just the ability to play a free game.

A classic example is something in the old Atari ST days and the Automation packer.  These guys kept their packer closed (it was eventually released by a rival group but that's a different story), nobody bitched and moaned that they didn't release their packer so we could all pack our own games.  Nope, members of the scene went "Fucking hell, how did they pack 3 floppies worth of shit onto one disk".

Remember that posting on a scene related news site/forum does not make you part of the scene.  There are plenty of private servers that you can struggle your way into it if you really want to be part of the scene, try it - you're attitudes towards this would change completely then.  I'd say that if everything wasn't so overground when dealing the gaming underground (like it was many eons ago) then not only would 90% of you never have heard about Wiikeys and flashcarts, you definitely wouldn't have heard about this loader and it would have been released.

Instead people are bitching because a member of the scene, who respects the scene and scene rules (Piracy 101 - don't tell the public anything) has decided that the greedy warez hungry casual pirate shouldn't get his software.


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## Shebang (Sep 20, 2008)

What really pisses me off is that by this thing gbatemp got a lot more visibility than necessary ... I'd rather sit in the shades ...

Relating the homebrew thing: If he doesn't, someone else will sooner or later. You can't stop knowledge.

-shebang


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## armagedalbeebop (Sep 20, 2008)

it is his project he can abandon it whenever he wants...and remember,this isnt public work, this stuff is like research oriented, he isnt doing us a favor,the other apps he released if he wanted nothing would came out to the public
so be thankful for the apps he released so far and stop blaming him


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

One reason more why I really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you Trolley........Exactly that!!


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> One reason more why I really
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well thank you Mr Plutonij, the feeling is mutual.


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## Nojoy (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> I don't have a Wii so don't really have any use for this but I do want to throw in my two cents worth.  Alot of the comments in this thread, mostly from very new members with very few posts, complaining that the loader isn't going to be released are from people who's only involvement in the scene comes from downloading free games via torrent/usenet.
> 
> How many of you are actually part of the Wii hacking scene?  Most scene members don't do things for the public, they do them for the scene.  What you're getting are crumbs, and like any ungrateful starving person you're complaining when the crumbs are taken away because for some unknown reason you believe that you "deserve" the loader simply because, well, because.  Why should he have to release it to you?  He's put alot of blood, sweat and tears into figuring out what he knows - only to have someone looking to be seen as "1337" spreading it around to undeserving people.
> 
> ...




All of this is truth. If you don't understand... reread it until you do. 

You don't deserve anything simply because you exist. As far as this scenario goes, saw it happen before in every console that's come out. Bottom line, his project... his decision. He's EARNED enough respect to do what he wants.


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## lukereeve (Sep 20, 2008)

Thankyou TrolleyDave, I've sat here looking at the shit people are saying about how they deserve anything. I'm glad someone had the experience to tell them how it really is.


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## sparky28000 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hello i'm new and i need some help can the backup loader run DVD+R or only -R becouse i only get ERROR! (res = -4100)


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## MiloFoxburr (Sep 20, 2008)

Looks like Waninkoko hasn't entirely abandoned the Backup Loader he posted the following in another thread on here (Now locked)



			
				Waninkoko said:
			
		

> The driver is not finished, nor the source code (needs to be cleaned, commented, remove shitty code, etc.). I was going to release the source (as it is licensed under the GPL) with the backup-loader binary but now I'll have to release it when I have it completely finished (except you want a very shitty source).
> 
> Also, it's not my fault that the guy who leaked it didn't release the source too.
> 
> ...



He posted in this thread in case people think I made the quote up


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## Blue-K (Sep 20, 2008)

I think nobody needs a Backuploader for free. If you realy want to play pirated games, go and buy you a Modchip and have fun (Like I did). I only download crap games (like mySims, etc..), good games I still buy (Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, etc..), because I'm respecting the producers of these games. I can also understand Wanikokos reaction very good, why can't some people simply wait a little longer...

Wanikoko, if you read this: Delete everything of the Backuploader and continue to make some other good stuff of Homebrew (like cIOS, Savegame, etc...)! That's my opinion!


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## rainrix (Sep 20, 2008)

Blue-K said:
			
		

> I think nobody needs a Backuploader for free. If you realy want to play pirated games, go and buy you a Modchip and have fun (Like I did). I only download crap games (like mySims, etc..), good games I still buy (Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, etc..), because I'm respecting the producers of these games. I can also understand Wanikokos reaction very good, why can't some people simply wait a little longer...
> 
> Wanikoko, if you read this: Delete everything of the Backuploader and continue to make some other good stuff of Homebrew (like cIOS, Savegame, etc...)! That's my opinion!



Good for you , nobody tells what you have to do , don't tell people what they should or shouldn't do because it's not your problem.


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## sparky28000 (Sep 20, 2008)

sparky28000 said:
			
		

> Hello i'm new and i need some help can the backup loader run DVD+R or only -R becouse i only get ERROR! (res = -4100)



nobody ??? please help


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

sparky28000 said:
			
		

> sparky28000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, post here, this is just discussion topic!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=105670


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## Jordan10la (Sep 20, 2008)

Apex said:
			
		

> One person wrong him, but given the opportunity, how many do you think WOULD have wrong him. I'm sure if anyone of us, if getting ahold of the beta, probably would have done something to share it.



I can honestly say I would not have leaked it. It's not like it was not going to be released. It was. No point in leaking accept being a hero to the community until he quits progress.


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## EmperorOfCanada (Sep 20, 2008)

Blue-K said:
			
		

> I think nobody needs a Backuploader for free. If you realy want to play pirated games, go and buy you a Modchip and have fun (Like I did). I only download crap games (like mySims, etc..), good games I still buy (Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, etc..), because I'm respecting the producers of these games. I can also understand Wanikokos reaction very good, why can't some people simply wait a little longer...
> 
> Wanikoko, if you read this: Delete everything of the Backuploader and continue to make some other good stuff of Homebrew (like cIOS, Savegame, etc...)! That's my opinion!



I agree, and disagree. I would just as soon paypal donate money to this guy for a working bug free easy to use iso loader as I would get my wii modded. Maybe Im just too lazy to open my Wii up. Right now its buggy as all hell and doesnt work all that well (Yes yes I realize its beta and wasnt supposed to be released) but the point is if were an official bug free release I would be happy to pay $.

For free? Well would be swell, but noone really 'deserves' it, aside from maybe the fellows who helped him develop it.


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## R0elr (Sep 20, 2008)

Hmm, If I were the leaker, I should announce I did it, but, this project ended very sadly.... I feel sorry for Waninkoko ....


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## WezG (Sep 20, 2008)

Opium said:
			
		

> Brian117 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Leaking software that someone is working on is ok though, if its a big company not an individual and its allowing you to play "backups" not the actual "backups" themselves, like all the games that get released before the store date, thats ok.
Your all just whining because you have lost out on more free games.
Thank you whoever leaked it, I am sure they did it in the right spirit, but this was the risk they took when releasing something like this, oh well I'm sure it won't stop Waninkoko developing it for himself and not sharing it with a load of @rse holes.


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## Yatashi Strife (Sep 20, 2008)

aw man this sucks whoever did this is a complete ahole! well Waninkoko, i hope u reconsider this......... i could only imagine how it feels when you work hard and something and then someone goes and leaks it. it would have been common sense to whoever did this to wait till you were ready to release your project so that you could show everyone the fruits of your labor. well even if you dont do the project you will still always be the coolest.


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

cyanidecordial said:
			
		

> all in all this homebrew would be great, but if you just step back for a second and see what effects this would have on the wii, you might not be as keen on it. There are two very possible things that can come out of this.. whose heard of the dreamcast? they went broke cause you were able to run games off it without any physical modding. Not to say this would make the big N bankrupt but it will have an immediate effect on its sales and hinder the amount of games coming out for it. Also, do you think nintendo is going to stand for this? Theyre going to crush this ASAFP cause the wii has a firmware that can be UPGRADED and they can. What this could lead to is a completely new OS which has no homebrew or free VC possibilities, or at the very least a massive firmware upgrade which is going to be mandatory for all new games.. this hack is going to end up shooting everyone in the foot, if it ever comes out in its complete state youll see some repercussions.
> The Wii's target audience is casual gamers, most of whom don't even know that homebrew exists. What games would everyone be pirating? They'd have to buy Brawl and Mario Kart if they wanted online play, and they'd already need a copy of Twilight Princess to start the whole thing off, so that leaves... Super Mario Galaxy? Fire Emblem? There aren't exactly going to be millions of people pirating Wii Fit. Heck, they'll probably make a little money off of those in the hardcore crowd who wouldn't consider buying a Wii until something like this came out.
> It would give them a good excuse to stamp out homebrew entirely, though, which is worrying.
> 
> ...


Hahahahahaha


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



By declaring that he's punishing people your inferring that people have some kind of undeniable right to the software.  Can you explain to me what that right is?  

How many here have helped him develop the tool?  How many here have helped him test the tool?  Those people have the rights to ask for a copy of the tool, anyone else is just whining because they aren't being allowed to have something they never should have known about to begin with.  If some adulation seeking hanger-on hadn't have released info about the tool would you have even known about it?

I don't get why the new generation of romsite/ed2k/torrent/usegroup based software theives believes that hackers/crackers/phreakers/scene members owe them something.


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## ~Tiny~ (Sep 20, 2008)

Well, this just plain sucks. I just hope whoever leaked it will own up. Maybe then Waninkoko will continue the project. Maybe, just maybe.


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> By declaring that he's punishing people your inferring that people have some kind of undeniable right to the software.  Can you explain to me what that right is?


I'm coming at this from the assumption that he started the hype or went along with it after it was started. He doesn't owe anyone anything until he promises it to them, but if he was participating in the buildup and answering questions about it and such, then he was effectively promising it to the community. If he _wasn't_, and intended to keep the entire thing under wraps until release, then his reaction is much more understandable, and the primary fault is on those who started hyping it up.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

This is stupid.  This is not a flame, this is a wakeup call, and I hope Waninkoko happens to read this exact post.

Grow up.  Seriously.  Your shit was leaked, who cares?  Yes, there are some people who don't appreciate your work, but there are many, many others who do, as is evidenced by this thread.  But seriously, what does your stuff getting leaked affect?  Absolutely nothing?  Correct.  I'm tired of indie devs/hackers getting all butthurt because their shit gets leaked and then screw over the people who are actually supporting them.  It's stupid, it's EXTREMELY childish, and you are an asshole by doing it.  Think of the people who do appreciate your work.  Take a long, hard look at this situation.  What has the leak changed?  Nothing, or at least that's the way it should be.  

Wake up and smell the fucking coffee.


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> This is stupid.  This is not a flame, this is a wakeup call, and I hope Waninkoko happens to read this exact post.
> 
> Grow up.  Seriously.  Your shit was leaked, who cares?  Yes, there are some people who don't appreciate your work, but there are many, many others who do, as is evidenced by this thread.  But seriously, what does your stuff getting leaked affect?  Absolutely nothing?  Correct.  I'm tired of indie devs/hackers getting all butthurt because their shit gets leaked and then screw over the people who are actually supporting them.  It's stupid, it's EXTREMELY childish, and you are an asshole by doing it.  Think of the people who do appreciate your work.  Take a long, hard look at this situation.  What has the leak changed?  Nothing, or at least that's the way it should be.
> 
> Wake up and smell the fucking coffee.



Don't you think it's just as childish for people to stamp their feet and have tantrums because they're not getting their own way?


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## GeekyGuy (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm just curious, and I don't know jack about programming, but if a beta of the software is out there, is it not possible for someone to just take a peek inside, see how the software functions, and then do something with it on their own? It seems to be what flashcard makers do. I know I'm naive on the matter, and that's why I ask. But pirating a pirate doesn't really bother me. So, if anyone were to pick up the mantle, I would have zero problem with that.

That said, I also fall into the category of not really giving a rat's ass. I wouldn't use the software, anyway, for various reasons.

I will say this, though -- this software sure seems to fall into the same category the modchips do, in that it serves no purpose other than pirating software to be played on the Wii. Whereas with flashcards, it can be argued (here in the States) that it's used for homebrew, the same can't be said for this software or modchips. They have a sole purpose, so the creator of this software might actually find themselves in legal trouble at some point.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> Hitoshura said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who is throwing a tantrum?  Honestly, I don't even care about this release, so you can try and reread my post without a bias and try to properly comprehend it this time.

I'm just tired of indie devs going off the deep end and getting all pouty because BAWWWWWW MY BETA WAS LEAKED.

But this is possibly because I am one of those "nonexistant" types that tends to congratulate the devs when they do something good and sometimes donates.


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> referencer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was asking?
Why do you think you have the right on this software, or at that matter anyone?!
You complaint about people letting it go, what should they do? Fight for it?!


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## DarkRey (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...








dude did u ever tried to make a homebrew urself?
is not a piece of cake to develop something like that!!
think about what will happen if the wii loader beta (leaked) had some major errors which brick the console!


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## Phaethon (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> This is stupid.  This is not a flame, this is a wakeup call, and I hope Waninkoko happens to read this exact post.
> 
> Grow up.  Seriously.  Your shit was leaked, who cares?  Yes, there are some people who don't appreciate your work, but there are many, many others who do, as is evidenced by this thread.  But seriously, what does your stuff getting leaked affect?  Absolutely nothing?  Correct.  I'm tired of indie devs/hackers getting all butthurt because their shit gets leaked and then screw over the people who are actually supporting them.  It's stupid, it's EXTREMELY childish, and you are an asshole by doing it.  Think of the people who do appreciate your work.  Take a long, hard look at this situation.  What has the leak changed?  Nothing, or at least that's the way it should be.
> 
> Wake up and smell the fucking coffee.



Thats exactly my saying. We at Wii Toolz won´t remove the download. And this stupid sayings like "uh, do it out of respect", come on, who cares and who really has respect in this times and at a location like the internet? As Hito says, the "leak" has changed nothing. It was a open secret that such a thing has been coded and now? What has changed in his work? At his desk? Nothing. OK, its ok, when he now does it in secret, but to say "the project has cancelled" is a liitle bit to easy and childish. Btw sorry for my absolutly bad english.


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 20, 2008)

Guys, listen to Toni and Dave.

How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?

Right now, all I see is a bunch of kids who are upset that they cannot get their own way.  The loader is not yours.  You have no right to it and the author can stop working on it anytime he damn well pleases.

Please don't reply to this post with your twisted reasoning to why it should be released or why he should keep working on the loader.  Also, stop flaming the guy.  He's done alot for the Wii Community.


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## sjones900 (Sep 20, 2008)

JKR Firefox said:
			
		

> Guys, listen to Toni and Dave.
> 
> How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?
> 
> Right now, all I see is a bunch of kids who are upset that they cannot get their own way.  The loader is not yours.  You have no right to it and the author can stop working on it anytime he damn well pleases.



He speaks truth!!!

by the way OMG ur post count is 888 TOTALY AWESOME


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## joe90 (Sep 20, 2008)

JKR Firefox said:
			
		

> Guys, listen to Toni and Dave.
> 
> How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?



say that again.... erm.. that happens all the time and no-one cries for the game devs or ms's new OS?


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> Exactly what I was asking?
> Why do you think you have the right on this software, or at that matter anyone?!
> You complaint about people letting it go, what should they do? Fight for it?!
> 
> ...


Granted that _I was going to release it there in the first place_, not very bad. Hell, it would save me some bandwidth.


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## Phaethon (Sep 20, 2008)

OK, then the big movie companies will stop working now too? Because of the leaks of their movies? Come on, work on the loader or let it be, nothing will be changed.


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 20, 2008)

JKR Firefox said:
			
		

> Guys, listen to Toni and Dave.
> 
> How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?
> 
> ...



Just added that but yeah.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

DarkRey said:
			
		

> dude did u ever tried to make a homebrew urself?
> is not a piece of cake to develop something like that!!
> think about what will happen if the wii loader beta (leaked) had some major errors which brick the console!
> 
> ...



Again, I wouldn't care, because it DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.  Come on people, logic and rationality.  We humans were meant to USE this ability of rational thought.


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

> Once you promise someone something, you have an obligation to deliver on that promise. The person you promised it to gains a "right" to demand of you what you promised. By not giving it to them because they did something you didn't like, you're punishing them. (Except in this case those promised _never actually did anything_.)
> 
> So he promised this app to you? That's funny cos I'm pretty sure it's an unauthorized leak of a beta, meaning the orignal author didn't release it.  The news came from an unofficial source as far as I'm aware.  So if anyone's going to have a pop at someone it should be at the one who leaked it, becuase essentially isn't HE the one who promised you it?
> 
> ...



Actually stuff like this is for the scene usually, some ego seeking hanger on usually releases it from the scene to the community.  There's a whole world of difference between the scene and the community.


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer, just stop.

Stop whining for the loader.  It's done.  I am tired of people trying to give reasons as to why Wanin is doing wrong but really it's all about pride.  Put yourself in his shoes.  His work was leaked without his permission.  I don't care about all of your arguements about why he should release it and keep working on it and why he's a liar and he promised us bla bla blahhh

Enough is enough.  It's done and over with.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> Actually stuff like this is for the scene usually, some ego seeking hanger on usually releases it from the scene to the community.  There's a whole world of difference between the scene and the community.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that there are people who appreciate his work, and it's a dick move on his part to dick them over.
> 
> ...



Hahaha, what?  Seems to me that this is a terrible exclamation of "I don't really have anything important to retort with so IT'S OVER."

It isn't over until there's an actual conclusion to this whole mess, nothing you have to say about it is going to stop it, so I would suggest that unless you have something worthwhile to contribute to the discussion, you stay out of it.


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> So he promised this app to you? That's funny cos I'm pretty sure it's an unauthorized leak of a beta, meaning the orignal author didn't release it.  The news came from an unofficial source as far as I'm aware.  So if anyone's going to have a pop at someone it should be at the one who leaked it, becuase essentially isn't HE the one who promised you it?
> I keep asking this, but no one seems to want to answer: Did he participate at all in the buildup? If he did, he was effectively promising it.
> 
> QUOTE(JKR Firefox @ Sep 20 2008, 05:02 PM) referencer, just stop.
> ...


I don't care about the loader, as I've stated. I'm here to point out the fact that he's being childish about this and people are glossing over that because he's helped the community before.


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## Beware (Sep 20, 2008)

Thank you whoever leaked this!!  And I'm not thankful for the obvious reason.  I have a mod chip, so I don't care about some convoluted way of getting ISOs to run.  I'm thankful because Waninkoko has stopped development on this VERY dangerous piece of software.  And honestly, how could he possibly fathom that something like this wouldn't be leaked?  Whatever, it doesn't matter.  The genius who leaked it has saved us all (for a little while).

If this came out a year ago, then perhaps I would be more jovial, but this is absolutely the worst time for a backup loader to be released.  Nintendo has now chip-proofed their newest mobos and I'm sure homebrew will be as good as dead within the next couple months.  Were this to actually get out and work (well) it would force Nintendo's hand and only hurt us all in the end.

Is it really worth it to destroy the entire homebrew community so you can say you created this?  Or so a bunch of cheap, spineless n00bs can play all their games for free?  Modchips aren't expensive and they are very easy to install.  There is no reason for something like this to have ever been in beta, let alone leaked.  People like Waninkoko really have to get over their swollen sense of pride and start thinking about the consequences of their actions, not how they can make themselves feel ub3r 1337.

Flame me all you want, but it is not debatable that this would (and likely still will) be a much larger blow to the homebrew community than a blessing.  Understandably, it sucks that his work got leaked, but think about what would have happened were this to get out of beta.

EDIT: How about everyone stops trying to bitch everyone else out?  Hmm?  Everyone is going to have their opinions and you wasting space in the thread is certainly not going to change anyone's mind.  So why not use that energy for something more productive?


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> That doesn't change the fact that there are people who appreciate his work, and it's a dick move on his part to dick them over.
> 
> Hahaha, what?  Seems to me that this is a terrible exclamation of "I don't really have anything important to retort with so IT'S OVER."
> 
> It isn't over until there's an actual conclusion to this whole mess, nothing you have to say about it is going to stop it, so I would suggest that unless you have something worthwhile to contribute to the discussion, you stay out of it.


WTF man.....dick them over....THE GUY DIDN'T PROMISE ANYTHING..It's his own free will and choice to make this and release it..
referencer, did he promised it to you? It's not a promise if he's talking about it, and answering  the questions..If I come to a car store and start talking with the salesman, asking him questions it doesn't mean I'm going to buy a car!!

And as Trolley said it, scene isn't the community....To be a part of the scene,  you must DO something for the scene!


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## yikkyon (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm not complaining because I know that
I still playing Super Mario Bros. FOR FREE
That 's enough for me but
Some of you are going like you deliver a pizza and then STOP BOOOO!!!
Well what if that one person stole part of that pizza , dropped it on the floor, AND THEN GAVE IT TO EVERYONE!!!
That's what you should thinking


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Who was I to direct a retort to?

No one was speaking to me.  Are you confused?


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's over.  He's said he's stopping work on it.  You just don't see it as over because you believe that if you push, scream and bully enough he might change his mind and release it to the community.  Plus I think JKRs post was of more substance then yours and found his reply actually added quite alot of intelligence to the thread.


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## 754boy (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

> I don't care about the loader, as I've stated. I'm here to point out the fact that he's being childish about this and people are glossing over that because he's helped the community before.


*
He* is NOT being childish. It is *HIS* loader which *HE* made with *HIS* time and energy. *HE* was doing the scene a service and someone betrayed *HIM*. So, *HE* has the right to do whatever *HE* wants to do with it.


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

referencer said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No he didn't.  Someone else released it to the community without his permission.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> WTF man.....dick them over....THE GUY DIDN'T PROMISE ANYTHING..It's his own free will and choice to make this and release it..
> referencer, did he promised it to you? It's not a promise if he's talking about it, and answering  the questions..If I come to a car store and start talking with the salesman, asking him questions it doesn't mean I'm going to buy a car!!
> 
> And as Trolley said it, scene isn't the community....To be a part of the scene,  you must DO something for the scene!
> ...



Going to argue semantics with me, eh?  Fine, I'll bite.

Last I checked, you don't need to be specifically addressed in order to make a retort, or "reply", to an argument.


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> referencer, did he promised it to you? It's not a promise if he's talking about it, and answering  the questions..If I come to a car store and start talking with the salesman, asking him questions it doesn't mean I'm going to buy a car!!
> When you talk about software you're developing without making it obvious that you aren't going to release it, the implication is that you're going to release it at some point. If Douglas Adams were resurrected and started commenting about working on another Hitchhiker's Guide book, people would rightly assume that he was _going to publish it_, and would be rightly disappointed if he decided to not publish it.
> 
> QUOTE(yikkyon @ Sep 20 2008, 05:18 PM) I'm not complaining because I know that
> ...


What the hell?


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## Beware (Sep 20, 2008)

This is friggin' ridiculous.  This is supposed to be for discussion of Waninkoko's backup loader not for childish flame wars over who is and isn't a dick (although I suppose this is what happens when you try to have rational discussions in the Testing Area).  This place looks more and more like 4chan every day. =_=;;


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> It's over.  He's said he's stopping work on it.  You just don't see it as over because you believe that if you push, scream and bully enough he might change his mind and release it to the community.  Plus I think JKRs post was of more substance then yours and found his reply actually added quite alot of intelligence to the thread.



Thank you so very much for proving that instead of actually reading and comprehending posts, you instead jump in to blindly defend this childish decision without even knowing who you are responding to.  Further proof that you guys have no clue what you're talking about, nor any logical basis on which to come to a rational and adult opinion on the matter.

For the last time, hopefully, I could care less about this release.  I am merely here to ridicule and criticize this absolutely inane and irrational decision.  Please learn to read, thank you.


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 20, 2008)

yikkyon said:
			
		

> I'm not complaining because I know that
> I still playing Super Mario Bros. FOR FREE
> That 's enough for me but
> Some of you are going like you deliver a pizza and then STOP BOOOO!!!
> ...



Join me as I have a moment of silence for the english language.

*bows head*


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> However, this doesn't change the fact that this is an extremely silly and infantile reaction to something so unnecessary to the development of the project.


Well, that is the main problem, *you* think it's unnecessary, but obviously it isn't the case with Waninkoko..He's bothered by it, and the bottom line is, if you have any sense in your head, you should respect it and respect him for his decision, because he earned respect more than enough times!!

I see no reason whatsoever to flame him..you understand, he didn't wrote a mail any of you saying that he's developing this for you..For what I know, maybe he was doing it for himself, and decided to share it in the end, but he sure didn't do it for you or referencer!!


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would like to say that I've been following these threads for days and have read almost all of the comments in each one that's appeared.

I've done my homework before responding.

Who are you?


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> Hitoshura said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Once again, thinking from a logical standpoint, nothing has changed.  So what if he's bothered by it?  It doesn't change any single facet of the development of the project.  Again, toss emotions and butthurtness out of it.  That's not the point.  

Also again I ask that you actually read my posts instead of blindly defending, because once again, I care not for the release of this project, from a personal stance.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

JKR Firefox said:
			
		

> Hitoshura said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That would be why you automatically assumed that I was whining about wanting the release for personal usage, right?

Right?

RIGHT?


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## mcjones92 (Sep 20, 2008)

Just a quick question, is this stable to use, or will it mess up my Wii if I use it?


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## referencer (Sep 20, 2008)

754boy said:
			
		

> *
> He* is NOT being childish. It is *HIS* loader which *HE* made with *HIS* time and energy. *HE* was doing the scene a service and someone betrayed *HIM*. So, *HE* has the right to do whatever *HE* wants to do with it.
> He's still being childish, regardless of whether or not he has a right to. If you're a landlord and one of your renters spills milk on the floor, you have full rights to kick them out, and it would still be a childish reaction.
> 
> QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Sep 20 2008, 05:24 PM) No he didn't.  Someone else released it to the community without his permission.


Did he have strictly _nothing_ to do with _any_ of the hype or buildup?


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## Brian117 (Sep 20, 2008)

The troll named Hitoshura needs to liek literally, liek, needz to gtfo amirite?


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Once again, thinking from a logical standpoint, nothing has changed.  So what if he's bothered by it?  It doesn't change any single facet of the development of the project.  Again, toss emotions and butthurtness out of it.  That's not the point.
> 
> Also again I ask that you actually read my posts instead of blindly defending, because once again, I care not for the release of this project, from a personal stance.


Dude,  you're a friggin ignorant..Why would he toss emotions out of it,  he's not a robot doing community work.....He's doing it all because he feels good about it,  once this happened, he stopped feeling good and he stopped developing..

I know you you don't care about this project, besides, if you read everything you would know that I don't even own Wii, and I don't care about this at all...I care about how people act, and it pisses me off..

Are you a part of scene,  or even community....For now, here, you have no respect from other members, because you have to earn it..Others who, think as I do, are active members here, they probably know how this works!!

On the other hand, I can't see that you or referencer see what is this about.......You say that this guy must finish loader?
Why?


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Brian117 said:
			
		

> The troll named Hitoshura needs to liek literally, liek, needz to gtfo amirite?



The kid named Brian117 needs to liek literally, liek, learn what the definition of troll is amirite?

That or my sarcasm detectors are broken.

WHICH IS IT?!


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## tjas (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Brian117 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stop freaking flaming, keep to the topic... isn't that hard now is it?


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

tjas said:
			
		

> Hitoshura said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1) Learn the proper usage of the word 'ignorant'.

2) I'm not saying he's a robot, I'm simply looking at this from a logical perspective, as I have stated many times.  Emotions should not weigh this heavily on the release of this project, or rather, on his decision concerning the leak.  If they do, then honestly, Waninkoko has some personal problems that he needs to work on.  A leak should not make you "not feel good" about it.  I mean, the work is still there.  Nothing has changed.  It's still your work and there are still plenty of people who will appreciate it.

3) I don't need to be a part of the scene, or community, to have even the -basic- understanding that people exist that appreciate Waninkoko's work, and not in a YAY FREE HAX way, in a "Man, thank you so much for this, you are a god of the scene" fashion.  These are the people that he needs to think about, instead of being whiny and childish.

4) I say he should finish it for two reasons: 1: His reason for abandoning it is infantile. And 2, perhaps the most important one: He's already invested so much time into it.  If he doesn't finish it, then it's like all the time he's already spent on it is a complete waste.  Now, maybe it's just me because I extremely value my free time, but I would never abandon a project period because of this reason alone.  I absolutely hate to waste time.


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## Longbaugh (Sep 20, 2008)

You all need to stop crying.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Longbaugh said:
			
		

> You all need to stop crying.



Who has been crying?


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## Brian117 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Brian117 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Trolling is simply when a member joins a site and just flames everyone with offtopic shit.

And next time, try figuring out your own backups instead of stealing mine and using my special leet.

And the 5 posts give away your trolling.


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Please refrain from using large text, it doesn't help your case any and just annoys me.  Anyway back to the point.  I don't remember reading a post stating that you had no use for this, for that I apologize.  It still doesn't change the fact though that you are attempting to ridicule and bully a developer into releasing software that he has every right not to release.

It's an absolutely logical decision for someone involved in any kind of this scene.  The work isn't for public consumption, it's for people involved in the scene.  Why is that so hard for people here to understand?  Why does everyone think that it's their inalienable right to have any bit of software that any hacker/cracker/pirate writes.  When did it suddenly become everybodies right to receive a hackers work instead of the priveledge that it actually is?


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> 1) Learn the proper usage of the word 'ignorant'.
> 
> 2) I'm not saying he's a robot, I'm simply looking at this from a logical perspective, as I have stated many times.  Emotions should not weigh this heavily on the release of this project, or rather, on his decision concerning the leak.  If they do, then honestly, Waninkoko has some personal problems that he needs to work on.  A leak should not make you "not feel good" about it.  I mean, the work is still there.  Nothing has changed.  It's still your work and there are still plenty of people who will appreciate it.
> 
> ...


You should consider that I'm  from  Croatia, I'm not a natural english-speaking  person, so sometimes it's hard to express myself, and find the right words..So it's plain stupid to trying to "get" me on language basis..You know what I meant!

It's not about logic at all, it's about respecting this guys decision..Emotions ARE the only reason why he's doing it, how can't you get it..He won't be getting payed for this, this loader wont give him food on table, it won't give him more free time, it won't benefit him in any way other than feeling good and satisfied!!
Do you understand this?
I  don't think he's got any personal problems, and writing something like that can only hurt..
DO you understand that he's doing it because he feels good, not because others will feel good using it..

And he probably thinks only about people who respect him, and like his work..But you really don't seem like that type of guy..I really can't see why would you "flame" (it's not really flaming, but you're calling him childish, and back up referencer who called him a dick!!) the guy for his decision!!
It's like flaming me for not buying a car/or creating one!!?? (You said you don't have an interest in this loader, and you wouldn't have in my car)..


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Brian117 said:
			
		

> Hitoshura said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The large text is because it seems several times in this thread, despite both referencer and myself saying otherwise, we have been accusing of "whining because we aren't getting our way" or some such, when that is hardly the case.

And no, it is not a logical decision, and the crux of this is the time that he has already invested into the project.  Whether or not for public consumption or scene consumption is somewhat irrelevant, aside from the reason he should be even more proud of his work - the people who support him.  Once again, I am not saying he should release it because I want it, or that the community in general wants it:  I am merely saying that I am sure that even in the "scene" there are people who highly appreciate his work and inform him of such, and these are the people he should think of, if not at least for the feeling of thanks he would recieve from them.  That and of course so that he hasn't wasted all the time he has already invested on this project.  I am sure that this is no small feat, and he has spent many hours of time on this project, so the question is, why quit now?  Because some scene kiddies leaked a possibly buggy build to the public?  No.  That is an extremely irrational reason to stop, when he could just finish it and have a sense of accomplishment instead of a sense of betrayal and defeat.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> You should consider that I'm  from  Croatia, I'm not a natural english-speaking  person, so sometimes it's hard to express myself, and find the right words..So it's plain stupid to trying to "get" me on language basis..You know what I meant!
> 
> It's not about logic at all, it's about respecting this guys decision..Emotions ARE the only reason why he's doing it, how can't you get it..He won't be getting payed for this, this loader wont give him food on table, it won't give him more free time, it won't benefit him in any way other than feeling good and satisfied!!
> Do you understand this?
> ...



Apologies then, I figured your grasp on English wasn't great but I believe the word 'ignorant' wasn't the idea you were trying to convey.  Again, sorry.

Once again, I point out that it is just silly to halt the project at this point because of "emotions".  Sure, it's an emotional blow, but have you ever heard of the phrases "Bite the bullet" or "just grin and bear it"?  These refer to simply working through hard times to ultimately come to a sense of accomplishment, instead of defeat.

I mean, which would you rather feel?  Would you like to feel like you had actually DONE something, or would you like to feel grief because you had given up on something?  I would like to think that you would choose the first answer.

I may not seem like "that type of guy", but it has to do with the situation at hand.  If an indie dev makes something I like and enjoy, I will let him know that I appreciate his work, and if they have a nifty little PayPal button on their site, if I have the spare funds I will donate a couple bucks to them for their hard work.  However, halting a project for such a silly reason is just that: silly.  Again, why give in to defeat?  Just finish it for the accomplishment, at least.


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> And no, it is not a logical decision, and the crux of this is the time that he has already invested into the project.  Whether or not for public consumption or scene consumption is somewhat irrelevant, aside from the reason he should be even more proud of his work - the people who support him.  Once again, I am not saying he should release it because I want it, or that the community in general wants it:  I am merely saying that I am sure that even in the "scene" there are people who highly appreciate his work and inform him of such, and these are the people he should think of, if not at least for the feeling of thanks he would recieve from them.  That and of course so that he hasn't wasted all the time he has already invested on this project.  I am sure that this is no small feat, and he has spent many hours of time on this project, so the question is, why quit now?  Because some scene kiddies leaked a possibly buggy build to the public?  No.  That is an extremely irrational reason to stop, when he could just finish it and have a sense of accomplishment instead of a sense of betrayal and defeat.



If you were involved in this type of thing in any way other then being a end-user then you would understand the logic behind his decision.  There are people in the scene who appreciate his work, but him stopping work on it won't make them cry out that he's not releasing it.  Instead he'll share what knowledge he's got and other groups will work on their own, only this time it well be kept completely secret from anyone who can't be trusted not to release it to the public.  Just think of it this way, releasing this to the public has now opened Ninty's eyes up to that particular hole.  A fix from them is a firmware away.  The scene suffers because of the general public getting a hold of stuff.


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## cephalopoid (Sep 20, 2008)

A lurker with an opinion.
I don't feel like I should have the right to any piece of code.  Everything is a privilege.  I feel completely lucky that Waninkoko and *everyone else* put their time and energy into hacking, as a hobby.

But let's be real, for a second.  Waninkoko made a mistake by trusting someone with his code.  Sure, it's not Waninkoko's fault that it the guy actually leaked it, but it takes a *high* degree of naivety to trust someone in the hacker scene.  

I can see how he's angry about this, but then again it seems like he's over-reacting.  Of all the years I've lurked the hacking community (since the early days of the PS2 scene), I have scene leaks, but never have I scene a project get abandoned just because of an early leak.

I'm sorry, but Waninkoko isn't really acting like an adult here.  Nor is he even acting like a benefactor to the hacking community.  He's acting like a 16 year old diva whose date ditched her at the prom, now she's at home crying.

An adult wouldn't abandon his project.

An adult would realize, wow, this community of hackers, who walk the line of legality every day, probably aren't too be trusted too much.  Maybe I should do a better job of screening who I give the beta to.

I want you all to imagine what our little world would be like if every piece of software was abandoned because it was leaked.  And I'm not just talking hacker code.  I'm talking professional code too.

Now for some speculation:
Given the circumstances, I think Waninkoko coded himself into a dead end, and couldn't actually make the product he promised.  This allowed him to save face and abandon it without getting the burnt of the blame.  If it did work, and if it was such a master piece of code, he wouldn't abandon it like he did.



Lurker, out.


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## Sors (Sep 20, 2008)

the one point i dont understand about waninkoko is that he even started that project, he was pissed extrem by the piracy use of his wad injector, yet he works on a backup loader


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> If you were involved in this type of thing in any way other then being a end-user then you would understand the logic behind his decision.  There are people in the scene who appreciate his work, but him stopping work on it won't make them cry out that he's not releasing it.  Instead he'll share what knowledge he's got and other groups will work on their own, only this time it well be kept completely secret from anyone who can't be trusted not to release it to the public.  Just think of it this way, releasing this to the public has now opened Ninty's eyes up to that particular hole.  A fix from them is a firmware away.  The scene suffers because of the general public getting a hold of stuff.



Doubtful, considering how long it took them to block out WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack.  Piracy is at the bottom of Nintendo's priority list.


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Doubtful, considering how long it took them to block out WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack.  Piracy is at the bottom of Nintendo's priority list.



Piracy has always been high on Nintendo's priority list, even back in the Magicom days.


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## Hitoshura (Sep 20, 2008)

Then... why did it take them almost two years to break WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack?  Seems to me Nintendo has a "eh, if we can block it, great, if not, don't put too much effort into it." kind of stance on piracy.


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## Notorious9i6 (Sep 20, 2008)

well since it got leaked, i see some good into it,
He might pick it up again and there is huge amount of people beta testing it.


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Apologies then, I figured your grasp on English wasn't great but I believe the word 'ignorant' wasn't the idea you were trying to convey.  Again, sorry.
> 
> Once again, I point out that it is just silly to halt the project at this point because of "emotions".  Sure, it's an emotional blow, but have you ever heard of the phrases "Bite the bullet" or "just grin and bear it"?  These refer to simply working through hard times to ultimately come to a sense of accomplishment, instead of defeat.
> 
> ...


It's OK, people often forget or don't realize that I'm not "englishman" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





OK, I understand what are you trying to say, it has sense from one point of view..But you really should consider that Waninkoko probably WILL finish the loader.....And it's very possible that he won't release it..
He will, however, get that "feeling of accomplishment" sooner or later, and it won't have nothing to do with releasing it or not..

I already said, and I will again, I've been in a similar situation (not as drastic and big as this), but I can understand the guy and his feeling from my personal experience!!

I show respect towards him, because it's something I'd like to get..You can feel and think what ever you want..I simply think he deserves more!


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## TrolleyDave (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Then... why did it take them almost two years to break WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack?  Seems to me Nintendo has a "eh, if we can block it, great, if not, don't put too much effort into it." kind of stance on piracy.



It depends on the size of the problem.  When Magicoms were kept amongst the scene they did very little except change mapper addresses.  When they became widespread the started putting blocking code in the BIOS.  When it became even larger they went after the importers of the devices.  The same thing then happened with the N64 copiers, except that time Ninty went after Bung Enterprises themselves.

A similar pattern is happening with the flashcarts.  Now they've become so popular and public that people believe that it's an official add-on (there were lot's of posts from people asking for help with their flashcart on the official Nintendo forums last year) they're doing something about.

With an exploit like this that makes it so every Tom, Dick and Harriet can copy games pretty easily Nintendo would get off their asses and do something about it.  

It's like MP3s, when it was just people swapping them amongst people capable of doing it, nobody gave a damn.  When software was released that meant that anyone with a double digit IQ and a connection to the net could download as many MP3s as they want with ease then the record companies started throwing their weight around.

See what happens when things go from "scene" to "community"?  This is why people in the scene like to keep their stuff there.


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## Phaethon (Sep 20, 2008)

Now he has everything he ever wanted: You all are talking about him and he is playing with himself...


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 20, 2008)

Phaethon said:
			
		

> Now he has everything he ever wanted: You all are talking about him and he is playing with himself...


?!
Everybody already talked about him before..He's really well know in Nintendo homebrew circles..


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## Lionhawk (Sep 20, 2008)

Well, there's one things that disturbs me in this thread. There's a bunch of guys saying that they have modchips so they don't give a S... about the loader, that modchips are cheap and easy to install.

The problem is not everyone is from a big country, and have the luck to have a store near that sell cheaps, also that let you buy with $ on the net. In my case in Venezuela we are restricted to 400$ a year for shopping online, and everything that's sell here in electronics is extremely overpriced (PS3 about 1300$). So is kind of selfish to look just your side of the block and say you give a damn about it because there could be people that may find it useful. Though even i want the backup loader to be completed, is his decision if released or not.

Seeing the things from multiple sides, which ever is his reason for not releasing it (Guy leaking, maybe he was, maybe don't, maybe it, maybe he traveled in time) he is a individual and has the right to do things as he pleased for which ever reason he wants. Though i'm no implying that he is doing it for any reason about stated, and maybe for some he has childish reactions but if he doesn't release it you can't do a thing about, except writing the backup loader yourself.

This topic is getting quite senseless lately.


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## tahtah (Sep 20, 2008)

too bad this got leaked. I already have a modchip but I thought this could be a very intresting app too bad. still props to the legendary Waninkoko i hope he will pick up this project sumtimes.


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## nephdj (Sep 20, 2008)

Hitoshura said:
			
		

> Then... why did it take them almost two years to break WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack?  Seems to me Nintendo has a "eh, if we can block it, great, if not, don't put too much effort into it." kind of stance on piracy.



TP exploit wasnt useful for the first 12-16months.
Was only at the launch of wiiware, that the homebrew channel and such started.


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## GeekyGuy (Sep 20, 2008)

JKR Firefox said:
			
		

> How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?








You don't see it, do you?


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## Ruri (Sep 20, 2008)

irpacynot said:
			
		

> JKR Firefox said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heh.

No, no, no, you don't understand  why are all the people here at GBAtemp so concerned about this.  I mean, do you really think upstanding citizens like us would pirate videogames?  We're honest, hardworking folk!  We're just sad that it's going to be harder for us to make _legitimate backups_ of the games we _legally buy_.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




All that aside...  is GBAtemp getting attacked or hammered over this news or something, by somebody who is annoyed that the initial reports that it was leaked seem to have broken here first?  I've been having a ton of trouble accessing the website ever since this news broke.


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## LagunaCid (Sep 20, 2008)

The leak was posted on /v/, not on GBATemp.

EDIT: The thing is, Waninkoko does not receive an hourly wage to work on the loader, he has no responsability whatsoever to keep working on it. it's totally up to him. It's really, really, frustrating when a bunch leeching kids keep bugging you to release something you are doing for FREE, just because for some unphantomable reason they think they are ENTITLED to it.
I used to do some free mods to a certain PHPBB RPG, and I know exactly how annoying is people thinking they have the right to push you around. It's really, really, frustrating and even infuriating.


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## Hitto (Sep 20, 2008)

Why are you still whining over it, isn't he releasing the source code? Even if it's buggy as hell, this does mean a lot of code-hungry eyeballs are going to get to improve it.
And just be thankful he DOESN'T release another taihen.nds...


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## Ruri (Sep 20, 2008)

LagunaCid said:
			
		

> The leak was posted on /v/, not on GBATemp.


Yeah, but not everyone necessarily knows that.  So I thought someone who didn't could be hitting us.


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## dinofan01 (Sep 20, 2008)

Can someone help me out with the process? When I boot DVDx the tutorial zedane_gneome wrote said to use IOS249. I dont have that option. I go up to IOS 33 or something before going back to 4. Any advice?


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## ZPE (Sep 20, 2008)

dinofan01 said:
			
		

> Can someone help me out with the process? When I boot DVDx the tutorial zedane_gneome wrote said to use IOS249. I dont have that option. I go up to IOS 33 or something before going back to 4. Any advice?



http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=105670&hl=


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## dinofan01 (Sep 20, 2008)

tsimehC said:
			
		

> dinofan01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That doesnt help since I was just talking about the post you linked too.


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## Mailyfesux (Sep 21, 2008)

you have to go into the wad manager to install the wad first before you can install ios249 it in dvdx


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## Treflex (Sep 21, 2008)

To whoever leaked it: uncool D: that's like pulling the shower curtain on him while he's in there. and then going on to take pictures and sell them on the internetz. but seriously, that was a shitty move, and now look what happened D: at least he's releasing the source. thanks waninkoko. we're not ALL dicks.
couldn't you just wait the 2-3 weeks? >.


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## Framework43 (Sep 21, 2008)

Sorry Jumpman, didnt see this thread. ANYWAYS
Waninkoko,

I know your really pissed about your project being leaked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , but that isnt our fault. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I dont mean to be a biotch, but you where the one who gave the backup loader to zant(or who ever the leaker is).We couldnt stop you from giving it to him, and we couldnt have stop him from leaking it, it was a beta that we could confirm the loader was legit with, so many of us still wish for you to continue this and someday make  it so great that you wouldnt even need to make alot of updates. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You should of been more careful about giving the backup loader like that, but that in the past. A lot of us were just waiting patiently for you to finish it and release it. By abandoning the project you are letting zant know that he defeated you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know its your project, but I think you should continue it. For all your fans, even when you were only making little apps we were cheering you on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Please dont let this leaker get to you and show him whos boss. And next time, dont get any more beta testers, you cant trust most people on the internet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No matter if you dont continue it, ill still be your fan  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .



-Your Friend,
Framework43


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## Beware (Sep 21, 2008)

When will people get it through their thick skulls?  Waninkoko DOESN'T CARE!  If he actually gave a damn about all these people whining about a new backup loader he wouldn't have stopped development.  And if he actually gave a damn about the homebrew community at all he never would have developed this.  People are just gonna piss and moan until they turn blue, but Waninkoko won't continue development for people like you.  *IF* he continues development (and he probably will) it will be because he will have realized how childish this whole thing is and finish what he started.  I hope he doesn't continue, but I find it hard to believe that this is the end for Waninkoko.  Just stop acting like sniveling babies and wait.  At least give the man the right to work on his project at his leisure.


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## Holaitsme (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm guessing most people here are newcomers.
*sigh*


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## Framework43 (Sep 21, 2008)

underpressure116 said:
			
		

> When will people get it through their thick skulls?  Waninkoko DOESN'T CARE!  If he actually gave a damn about all these people whining about a new backup loader he wouldn't have stopped development.  And if he actually gave a damn about the homebrew community at all he never would have developed this.  People are just gonna piss and moan until they turn blue, but Waninkoko won't continue development for people like you.  *IF* he continues development (and he probably will) it will be because he will have realized how childish this whole thing is and finish what he started.  I hope he doesn't continue, but I find it hard to believe that this is the end for Waninkoko.  Just stop acting like sniveling babies and wait.  At least give the man the right to work on his project at his leisure.



Honestly, Im just saying, that he is making a big deal of it. I dont even care if he doesnt continue, i will just get a modchip or something If he doesnt. I think this entire think is stupid, the leaking and the abandoning of the project for such a small reason. BUT I dont care if he does or does not continue, waninkoko can do whatever he wants. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents of what i think about this.


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## rommy667 (Sep 21, 2008)

Waninkokos work thus far has been fantastic thanks a lot man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but even if he stops so what? did all the moaners ever hear of a MOD CHIP???? are ppl really that mean that they wont spend a few $ on mod chip???????


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## Calogero91 (Sep 21, 2008)

seriously it's not the end of the world, oh man just can't stop laughing, theres something called a mochip it's revolutionary product made for all sorts of systems, saves you tonnes of cash


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## PanzerWF (Sep 21, 2008)

$5 says Waninkoko will be charging for the official thing.


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## aizen000 (Sep 21, 2008)

can someone please help me, im trying to test one piece ultimate adventure on the loader but it says. 

Title identification....ERROR! (ret = -4100)


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## Warm Woolly Shee (Sep 21, 2008)

Waninkoko starts drama every other week.  He already pissed all the wiibrew people off


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## AlBa (Sep 21, 2008)

Maybe waninkoko wanted that leak after all? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Why?

he got pissed off with bugs, and wanted to give out the code
or
he didn't have enough beta testers!

Anyway that's just some thinking, i may be wrong...


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## Longbaugh (Sep 21, 2008)

Hitto said:
			
		

> Why are you still whining over it, isn't he releasing the source code? Even if it's buggy as hell, this does mean a lot of code-hungry eyeballs are going to get to improve it.
> And just be thankful he DOESN'T release another taihen.nds...



_*[11:38]* waninkoko, are you going to release the backup loaders source?
*[11:39]* no_
*[11:39]* Why is it in black and white?
*[11:39]* Is it the apploader?
*[11:39]* zapu: I haven't do that yet
*[11:39]* on ntsc machines
([11:39]) Parts: dillion ([email protected]) () [429 users]
* Xmods sets mode: -b *!*@c-98-206-196-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net
*[11:39]* ok thanks
*[11:39]* btw, the leaked beta doesn't work correctly with video modes


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## GeekyGuy (Sep 21, 2008)

PanzerWF said:
			
		

> $5 says Waninkoko will be charging for the official thing.








Yeah, if he wants to do time in prison.


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## SkankyYankee (Sep 21, 2008)

Deeply saddened by the leaks. If i have learned anything in the history of piracy i have learned this. DON'T piss off good developers! Especially homebrew! I just want to know what the guy was thinking when he unofficially released possibly the most important piece of wii code on a project not finished!!! If you need a beta tester that wont leak. I'm your temper.


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## Cyberxion (Sep 21, 2008)

It would seem to me that any rational person in Waninkoko's shoes ought to make it his priority to root out the source of the leak and cut them out of future beta tests, and yet the entire community, including those who are vocal in their appreciation of his efforts, are being given the middle-finger?  Just because one of his testers leaked the beta before its time?  And that decision doesn't seem the least bit disproportionate to you guys?  Really?    

I won't go so far as to say that he's _punishing_ the community.  I understand that it's his project to release or deny us on whatever silly little whim might strike him on any given day.  We're certainly not entitled to anything.  However, it strikes me as strange that he'd blow things this far out of proportion and deny the entire community the loader, when in reality, the leak had a negligible effect on him, besides maybe illustrating the importance of being careful about who you trust.  And besides, it wasn't the community's fault anyway.  Moreover, his prior time and effort spent on the loader wasn't invalidated by the leak.  In fact, I'd say that releasing a working loader, even if it's merely in beta form right now, just might have had the opposite effect.  It's a fantastic proof-of-concept, and ought to serve to rally the community behind him.  So his decision to cease development doesn't make too much sense.  I think that's what referencer and Hitoshura were getting at, and I don't disagree.  

Now, I don't have any interest in this loader.  If I wanted to steal developer's hard work, I'd have already bought a mod-chip.  However, I understand that it's sort of a "holy-grail" for a lot of disenchanted Wii owners.  So it's with that understanding that I think that his decision to cease development is nothing more than a silly knee-jerk reaction to what is ultimately a non-issue.  If I were in his shoes, I'd have taken from this that I need to be more critical of who I trust, and take steps to avoid this sort of thing in the future.  I wouldn't announce that I'm quitting, thereby lording the possibility of what might have been over everyone's heads.  That's not childish per se, but it's certainly in ill taste.


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## Rankio (Sep 21, 2008)

Plenty of betas get leaked and their finals come out.  I don't get why someone has to be so upset over it.


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## cephalopoid (Sep 21, 2008)

Rankio said:
			
		

> Plenty of betas get leaked and their finals come out.  I don't get why someone has to be so upset over it.



This.

As the guy pointed out a couple posts above, we're all pirates here, are we not? When you're swimming with sharks, you're gonna get bit.  I said it before . . . Waninkoko is pretty naive if he trusts his beta testers not to leak the code.


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## Raven Darkheart (Sep 21, 2008)

Looks like i was late to this party, but once againthe trolls come out of the woodwork. i have to agree with many of the vets that have already posted here about this. leave the Guy alone really. i mean were all pirates in one way or another and whining about it wont do anyone any good

i really doubt the beta was released here, i applaud the guy for his work but to blame the site is kinda extreme no?

and to all the whiny trolls? please GTFO we dont need babies crying about not being able to steal from publishers. if you wanna pirate get another game system and pirate that instead.


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## Toni Plutonij (Sep 21, 2008)

Raven Darkheart said:
			
		

> Looks like i was late to this party, but once againthe trolls come out of the woodwork. i have to agree with many of the vets that have already posted here about this. leave the Guy alone really. i mean were all pirates in one way or another and whining about it wont do anyone any good
> 
> i really doubt the beta was released here, i applaud the guy for his work but to blame the site is kinda extreme no?
> 
> and to all the whiny trolls? please GTFO we dont need babies crying about not being able to steal from publishers. if you wanna pirate get another game system and pirate that instead.








Nicely summed up!! Exactly what most of us are saying..


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## Cyberxion (Sep 22, 2008)

Can I ask who you're referring to when you guys go on about trolls?  I'm genuinely curious.


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## Raven Darkheart (Sep 22, 2008)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> Nicely summed up!! Exactly what most of us are saying..


I learned from you and dave really...
the others already made the point for me but its sad to see trolls go on and on whining


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## Cyberxion (Sep 22, 2008)

Raven Darkheart said:
			
		

> Toni Plutonij said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't mean to come across as being pushy, but I've read through this entire thread a few times already, and I can't seem to find any instances of the common definition of trolling.  And yet I see so many of you dropping the term like it's going out of style that I fear I must have missed something.  Can you cite some examples so that I may get up to speed with what the GBAtemp community defines as trolling?  

As it stands, it appears that all you have to do to be labeled a troll here at GBAtemp is to have an opinion that the accuser doesn't agree with, but that can't be it, can it?  There's no way that people who post on the internet can be so developmentally stunted that they would lash out at others for having their own opinions, right?  So if you could hook me up with some info that might shed some light on the trolling epidemic that you guys seem to be suffering, I'd appreciate it.  I'm at a loss.  

Thanks!


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## junk_man32 (Sep 22, 2008)

cephalopoid said:
			
		

> Rankio said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


he is naive, and a little baby
"OH......the backup loader got leaked, now i stop the making of this cause im sad and i hate it" well might as well say its a beta and finish crybaby, and that leaker whoever leaked it is dumb, you hurt waninkoko's feelings, lol


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## JPH (Sep 22, 2008)

Cut out the flames.

I'm serious, any of that shit and consider yourself suspended.


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## Cyberxion (Sep 22, 2008)

junk_man32 said:
			
		

> he is naive, and a little baby
> "OH......the backup loader got leaked, now i stop the making of this cause im sad and i hate it" well might as well say its a beta and finish crybaby, and that leaker whoever leaked it is dumb, you hurt waninkoko's feelings, lol


I wouldn't say that he's a cry-baby.  It's a silly little program, and nothing to get bent out of shape over.  And while I definitely think that Waninkoko might be well served to remember that himself, it might be a good idea for us to remember that as well.  I think we could all stand to learn to share our opinions without being dicks about it.


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## ace90099 (Sep 22, 2008)

Since Waninkoko has given up on this project why doesn't someone else pick it up, there are plenty of talented people out there and I'm sure someone could figure out how to finish it. Plus if someone finished it, it would put there name out there as being one of the best things to happen to wii homebrew since the twilight hack.

Also, I think the reason Waninkoko gave up on this project is because he just wanted to give up on it. Face it, if you want to keep something like this a secret than just don't let anyone else close to it, if its anyone's fault for this being leaked it's Waninkoko's. Someone took his hard work and posted it on the net without his permission. wait a minute, isn't the backup loader used to take wii games that have been riped or leaked to the net and made playable on a non-modded wii. hum, i guess Waninkoko got a taste of what his program is doing to the gaming industry. 

Sooner or later this program will be picked up and finished or it will be finished by Waninkoko himself because it will keep him in the spot light. You never know this could have been an act by Waninkoko just to make him more famous because before this I never heard of him even though I knew about the CIOS I didn't care who made them.

The same thing (kind of) happened in the PSP homebrew scene when Dark Alex said he was quiting the scene but now over a year and a PSP later he is still cracking away and better than ever at it.

Edit: also stop being pissed off at the leaker, it's not their fault Waninkoko is giving up. they saw the most important homebrew program to ever hit the wii scene and thought "I have to share this with the world." anybody else would have done the same thing. and Waninkoko needs to realize that he is handling this the wrong way. yes his program got released before he wanted it to but everyone understands that its his and that its not finished yet. and I respect Waninkoko for discovering/creating the greatest homebrew for the wii ever but if he gives up on this project then a lot of people are going to give up on him because no one respects a quitter.


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## The Worst (Sep 22, 2008)




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## Gringo79 (Sep 22, 2008)

MArio party 8 PAL Works fine here with hdtv cable


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## GeekyGuy (Sep 22, 2008)

Well, here's how I see it, really....

In a sense, being a "pirate" is like being a scientist. Once something's out there, it's out there. You can either try to work together to help the community, or move out the way. Either way, though, progress keeps moving forward, and there's really no way to stop it. Now, this guy / gal who created this software might want to take their project and go home, but I don't really see how that's possible. It's out there. Someone -- if not him / her -- will eventually pick up from where they left off. It's kind of moot, I think. It's kind of the equivalent of these ROM sites trying to copyright their content. It's fucking laughable.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That of course, doesn't mean I don't appreciate this person's work. But if someone is only in it for their own sake, well, they are participating in the wrong community. There's no way to bottle that shit.


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## ace90099 (Sep 23, 2008)

i agree with irpacynot completely but i do feel a little sorry for Waninkoko now that i think about it more cuz its like someone stole his work that he worked really hard on. but still if you want to make a name for yourself go find a cure for cancer cuz the cracker and modder scene is not the place for that.


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## msa (Sep 25, 2008)

waninkoko cannot punish us.

what did he expect? people not downloading it because of sympathy? jeez.

i mean, he's really being a dick with his behaviour. it was HIS fault. he KNEW that this program is easily the most anticipated piece of homebrew ever to be written, and he gives it to someone for beta-testing he doesnt even know?

the leak was the price he had to pay for being not cautious at all.

now, waninkoko, dont be an ass and continue that software and dont act like a sissy. ultimately, it was your fault it got leaked - dont blame other people for your mistakes.

and while i'm at it...

i tried (all on 3.3E PAL wii, rgb cable @ CRT and pal versions of the games, except elebits, i think thats ntsc):
- super paper mario - gameplay runs flawlessly, although loading times seem to be a bit long sometimes (nearly perfect)
- resident evil uc - gameplay is very good, loading times (also during levels) can be long and fmv's stutter
- the godfather blackhand edition - long loading times, crashes at the loading screen after creating your character and choosing "play the game"
- wario ware smooth moves - fmv's stutter extremely (and cant be skipped, at least not the first time), gameplay is flawless
- elebits - like in wario ware, extreme stuttering of the fmv's, but gameplay is perfect
- rayman raving rabbids - long loading times, gameplay is fine


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## OrcMonkey© (Oct 1, 2008)

unrelated testing are stuff
lol ol ololollolool
this is in the tesing area but why/ lol olo lol o lo l olol o l ol ol l o l o l oo l o ll l l l o  o l o l o ol o l ol lv o l lo l vo ldvsfl o l clldxvll lcbfllo  o o l lodgolvol vf   kl p lo lol ki k i m ojnh jjh nj i cvn mnmjoip m ko k vok i ki ik ik i i ik ki ki  ki mij i  9 ki ki  ikik k  bv as asdfghjkl    aq sdf g ghjk v csqdfghjakaqsqdq,qaaqdfqaghjqklqafgqhjkqaghjqaqadfsb  ehj rmunsd


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