# Nintendo wins court case against man who sold TX devices and pirated copies of Switch games



## DKB (Jan 2, 2020)

Welp. gg


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## Chary (Jan 2, 2020)

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes; that's why you never sell roms.


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## DeoNaught (Jan 2, 2020)

I wonder if they can be called to court about any Trinket M0, or only Trinket M0s being used for hacking, because even though they are mostly used for CFW, they totally have other uses.


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## WhiteMaze (Jan 2, 2020)

To the surprise of no one.

Obviously this was going to happen.


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## Reploid (Jan 2, 2020)

Free the poor guy, he only wanted to be the world better


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## gameboy (Jan 2, 2020)

dont sell roms


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## jamezfat (Jan 2, 2020)

I mean, yea. That's the risk you take in doing that stuff...


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 2, 2020)

Idiot! Dont sell them.. See what's happened. What a stupidity. They just want to sell to make money. SMH!


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## ChibiMofo (Jan 2, 2020)

Always happy to see criminals who steal from others have to pay for their crimes. Great story, GBATemp! Great news to start off the new year.


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## DuoForce (Jan 2, 2020)

>Selling ROMs
>Buying ROMs
A true pirate *NEVER *buys ROMs! Good for Ninty for winning this case.  ROMs are not to be sold for currency of any kind, they serve as a way to archive and preserve games, not so greedy scumbags can sell and profit from them.  Anyone who _knowingly _buys pirated ROMs are morons.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 2, 2020)

let this  be a lesson. roms are meant to be free. but hard to find


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## HaloEffect17 (Jan 2, 2020)

Nice photo for this post, haha. Knock off Nintendo logo.


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## xtrem3x (Jan 2, 2020)

So he walked away with a warning... Got off pretty lightly to be fair


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## WhiteWakandan (Jan 2, 2020)

This shit is being done in most 3rd world countries - and no body cares.
He was either reckless or thinking it'll be fine cause where hes from everyone and their dogs were doing it and getting away with it.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 2, 2020)

I wonder how much are they pay the fined ?


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## NoNAND (Jan 2, 2020)

Chary said:


> Play stupid games, win stupid prizes; that's why you never sell roms.


What kind of moron sells ROMs.
Why do they even try..


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## supergamer368 (Jan 2, 2020)

What’s with the weird bootleg Nintendo logo on this article lol
anyway selling roms is a stupid idea because they’re so easy to find online and it’s so easy for nintendo to catch you selling them so don’t even try.


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## James_ (Jan 2, 2020)




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## Chary (Jan 2, 2020)

supergamer368 said:


> What’s with the weird bootleg Nintendo logo on this article lol
> anyway selling roms is a stupid idea because they’re so easy to find online and it’s so easy for nintendo to catch you selling them so don’t even try.


I thought it'd be funny cuz he's selling ROMs. That tends to be something that bootleggers do, so I found a Nintendo logo that didn't look TOO off...but still suspiciously weird


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## DinohScene (Jan 2, 2020)

Selling pirated copies.
Hah!

Got what you deserved.


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## punpuno (Jan 2, 2020)

yeesh who would sell roms


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## Deleted User (Jan 2, 2020)

Naoto Shirogane wins again.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 2, 2020)

I did wonder why the ROM selling bit was the lead but seems to be a court document rather than the usual press statement so that is probably why.

Anyway while I imagine it would be tempting to load up some ROMs on things and get some more customers that care to pay for convenience you are just inviting the companies to slap you.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 2, 2020)

DinohScene said:


> Got what you deserved.


except all they got was a slap on the wrist not even a fine. total fucking injustice! when kongnutz pirates ONE shitty mario game and gets sued a million


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## PatrickD85 (Jan 2, 2020)

Souljaboy would 'crank dat' Soulja console in a heartbeat.


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## Ev1l0rd (Jan 2, 2020)

Haha, good.

Now let's wait and see if they can identify any other TX resellers.


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## Goku1992A (Jan 2, 2020)

Ppl sell these all the time on ebay and offer up in my area


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## KungFuzion (Jan 2, 2020)

Dickheads like this is what ruins it for everyone else. It's like when you see these clowns on fb selling stacked retropie images on Pi's then charging silly money for the privelage.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 2, 2020)




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## jt_1258 (Jan 2, 2020)

Clearly wasn't from China XD


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## banjo2 (Jan 2, 2020)

Anyone know how much he was selling for and how many games?


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## bandithedoge (Jan 2, 2020)

Selling and buying ROMs is the stupidest thing I've heard of lately. The whole concept of piracy is NOT paying for them.


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## Hayato213 (Jan 2, 2020)

Well it is obviously dude is stupid enough to sell backup online, probably it would be even worse if was Sony. You don't always see Nintendo going after people, even if someone was going to sell something with CFW on it, make sure there is no backup on that system installed period.


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## Goku1992A (Jan 2, 2020)

bandithedoge said:


> Selling and buying ROMs is the stupidest thing I've heard of lately. The whole concept of piracy is NOT paying for them.



I agree and disagree with you. Guys like you and me we understand the process but soccer mom and dad or mom with 5 kids not going to have the time to configure files they prefer it already premade.

That's mainly who buy the devices


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 2, 2020)

When you're a Privateer, expect to walk the plank.

Don't expect to not get in trouble when you have for-profit piracy Services as a business. If this person was buying TX devices and reselling them I'm sure they were probably charging higher than normal prices like an asshat just for the sake of convenience.

I don't blame Nintendo one bit for this, and it's rare for me to be happy for Nintendo winning court cases but this is one of them.

Fucking scallywag got their comeuppance. ROMS are not for sale.


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## Lodad (Jan 2, 2020)

Am I reading that correctly, that they aren't even allowed to own or use any exploit hardware for their own purposes? How would that be enforceable?

I agree that this is one of those clear cases of Big N being in the right, though. This is the kind of case that only gives them ammunition to use against the rest of us.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 2, 2020)

What did he expect, to get away with it? Don't sell pirated games, you're less likely to get caught if you simply download them. People who sell pirated games or buy them deserved to be ripped off.

Dumbass,


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## PrincessLillie (Jan 2, 2020)

You sell ROMs, you get fucked. It's common sense, don't sell or buy ROMs!
What really got to me though was this:


> provide written certification to Nintendo, representing that Defendant, including any of his agents, were not in possession of any circumvention devices, including but not limited to any software related to circumventing Nintendo systems, [...] any physical devices, such as SX Pro or Trinket M0 chip, that are used to circumvent Nintendo systems, [...] any modded Nintendo devices, or unauthorized copies of Nintendo video games


Does this mean Nintendo can fine me or make me write an essay for my B9S 3DS?


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## Teletron1 (Jan 2, 2020)

Its one thing to alter hardware its another to install non licensed software and try to collect on it  big N making their presence felt with their surplus cash supply


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 2, 2020)

You guys think he's really destroying all that stuff? It's not like they're going to come to his house and search through everything. 
Also, kinda funny he got ordered to destroy any Trinket M0 boards he has, considering that is a general purpose microprocessor that has nothing to do with the Switch really and it could have been done with any microprocessor that has a programmable USB port, the trinket just happens to be pretty small.


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## Lucifer666 (Jan 3, 2020)

LOL if this is a sue-able offence then Nintendo really should have been on the Middle East and Southern Europe in the early 2000s.

No official retail stores from no official local distro, just a bunch of small shops and stalls where you can basically only get consoles that are pre-hardmodded. In fact, for years I didn't even know my PS2 was modded because I thought going to a shop and spending around $3 for 50 games is normal (and they usually had shitty prints slid into a DVD case and the DVDs themselves have the correct game art printed on.) I found out when I tried to play one of them on an imported PS3 and it didn't work.

In Syria it was totally normal to buy a Nintendo DS with an R4 in it and literally a hundred different ROMs already on the MicroSD, for probably a teeny bit over the price of a Nintendo DS. All my cousins had R4s and didn't even really understand what they were, it's just how games are distributed.

I moved away. No idea how it is now with consoles that need regular firmware updates and have anti-piracy measures.

I feel legit bad for this dude. He's probably just like one of those 50 y/o guys that run the shops, just liked to see people (mostly kids) come in and get excited about which games they're gonna play next. But also since this is the USA i.e. a 'developed' country I also get it.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 3, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> except all they got was a slap on the wrist not even a fine. total fucking injustice! when kongnutz pirates ONE shitty mario game and gets sued a million


The difference is, people buying the products he was selling were already looking for a hacked consoles wanting to pirate. Nintendo can't claim damages, as he didn't give them anything they wouldn't have gotten without him.
NSMB Wii on the other hand was leaked ahead of release, causing an unknown number of lost sales even among people that would otherwise have bought the game at launch, because they already played it so why bother? Not like the game was that great.

The way suing works is that you have to prove to the court that the defendant damaged you or your business or caused you to lose money in some way, and claim some amount of money or goods related to the damages. If you can't prove that, no matter if they were in the wrong or not, you can't get anything from them.


Lucifer666 said:


> LOL if this is a sue-able offence then Nintendo really should have been on the Middle East and Southern Europe in the early 2000s.
> 
> No official retail stores from the official local distro, just a bunch of small shops and stalls where you can basically only get consoles that are pre-hardmodded. In fact, for years I didn't even know my PS2 was modded because I thought going to a shop and spending around $3 for 50 games is normal (and they usually had shitty prints slid into a DVD case and the DVDs themselves have the correct game art printed on.) I found out when I tried to play one of them on an imported PS3 and it didn't work.
> 
> ...


Singapore used to have a problem with rampant bootlegging as my dad used to buy me bootleg games from there, until eventually the cops cracked down on it hard and gave all the stores selling them huge fines. Now you don't see bootleg games in stores anymore, nor do you see flashcarts or modchips for sale. Pre-hacked consoles are still a thing I believe, though you don't see them openly advertising it in an obvious way. But if you go to the right store, and ask the guy behind the counter if they can hack it for you...


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## andyhappypants (Jan 3, 2020)

Chary said:


> I thought it'd be funny cuz he's selling ROMs. That tends to be something that bootleggers do, so I found a Nintendo logo that didn't look TOO off...but still suspiciously weird


Deffo a cheap Chinese hack logo


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## codezer0 (Jan 3, 2020)

Bruh, where he effed up was promoting the roms that he sold with them. If he sold a TX install service, his operation could have easily lasted longer.

Not defending the guy, but that's basically where Nintendo had a legal leg to stand on to sue him.


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## TheZander (Jan 3, 2020)

Wow since when can you not do what you want with your devices  I thought this was America and to have such injustice struck upon us by this is unconstitutional. There are amendments in place for this stuff for a reason. It is perfectly legal to back up one's games as well as it is legal to do other stuff that's why this case holds no water


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## Ericthegreat (Jan 3, 2020)

Chary said:


> Play stupid games, win stupid prizes; that's why you never sell roms.


I thought they got off incredibly easy, especially if they made enough money to cover expenses/lawyer fees, I kind of doubt it though.


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## 0x3000027E (Jan 3, 2020)

Ericthegreat said:


> I thought they got off incredibly easy, especially if they made enough money to cover expenses/lawyer fees, I kind of doubt it though.


Nintendo still has to be wary of their reputation when it comes to Public Relations; suing some Ebay dwellers for large sums of money, (and then trying to collect that money) can get spun into a negative PR story rather quickly. 
This was the correct move for Nintendo: demonstrate a court order to show that they are watching/are serious, then leave with a stark warning.  

I love the 'bootleg' Nintendo banner on the front page btw, adds a little flavor to the story!


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## IncredulousP (Jan 3, 2020)

Wow! Selling modded consoles with roms? Who would do that? Where was he even located? I mean like, where? Like, what city, street, ya know that's crazy damn. What a dumbass. So where was he selling them?


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## chrisrlink (Jan 3, 2020)

baka, the only reason why this was kept under wraps was because nintendo virtually lost the case since the guy got off pretty much unscathed trust me if he got full penallty +damages nintendo would send out a fanfare parading his head on a pike then mounting the guy's head on Doug bowser's fireplace mantle next to the dozens of other idiots before him


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## Ericthegreat (Jan 3, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Wow! Selling modded consoles with roms? Who would do that? Where was he even located? I mean like, where? Like, what city, street, ya know that's crazy damn. What a dumbass. So where was he selling them?


Seems "southern California" probably chinatown in LA. I know people who have bought R4s there.


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## xdarkmario (Jan 3, 2020)

normally im on the side of freedom, but selling roms is asking for it. it as bad enough they was charging for their OS Keys and for a pretty hefty price too.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 3, 2020)

codezer0 said:


> Not defending the guy, but that's basically where Nintendo had a legal leg to stand on to sue him.



That is pretty much always where they find their legal grounds and base most of their cases. It is just the press releases (which is what you mainly see reported on) that play up the evil modding aspect and say oh we also found some roms on a disc that might be sold as well.



Lucifer666 said:


> LOL if this is a sue-able offence then Nintendo really should have been on the Middle East and Southern Europe in the early 2000s.
> 
> No official retail stores from no official local distro, just a bunch of small shops and stalls where you can basically only get consoles that are pre-hardmodded. In fact, for years I didn't even know my PS2 was modded because I thought going to a shop and spending around $3 for 50 games is normal (and they usually had shitty prints slid into a DVD case and the DVDs themselves have the correct game art printed on.) I found out when I tried to play one of them on an imported PS3 and it didn't work.
> 
> ...



There were any number of places that such things would apply to, and probably still do to some extent.

That said Microsoft had a quote a while back of something like one day they will pay for it*, when they do we want it to be us that they use. While I doubt you will ever get anybody officially copping to a mindset like that in Nintendo I would be stunned if they did not operate like that at some level.
*how much have many places come up in the world this last 20 or so years.


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## Jayro (Jan 3, 2020)

I expected this. I think we all did. The guy was a dumbass.


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## Ericzander (Jan 3, 2020)

sks316 said:


> Does this mean Nintendo can fine me or make me write an essay for my B9S 3DS?


The part you cited stated "Defendant, including any of his agents." You wouldn't be implicated by this settlement.


The Real Jdbye said:


> You guys think he's really destroying all that stuff? It's not like they're going to come to his house and search through everything.
> Also, kinda funny he got ordered to destroy any Trinket M0 boards he has, considering that is a general purpose microprocessor that has nothing to do with the Switch really and it could have been done with any microprocessor that has a programmable USB port, the trinket just happens to be pretty small.


Because he settled, he agreed to that term. Maybe he would have an argument on appeal if he was sentenced to do that. But dude agreed to it.


The Real Jdbye said:


> The way suing works is that you have to prove to the court that the defendant damaged you or your business or caused you to lose money in some way, and claim some amount of money or goods related to the damages. If you can't prove that, no matter if they were in the wrong or not, you can't get anything from them.


Only in theory. Nintendo has a lot of money and the entire deck stacked in their favor. All they had to do was convince the Defendant that they had a case against him and he would fold and settle. Which is what happened. So Plaintiffs can (and actually almost always in civil and criminal court) prevail over Defendants without the court making any factual findings that aren't based on stipulation.


TheZander said:


> I thought this was America and to have such injustice struck upon us by this is unconstitutional. There are amendments in place for this stuff for a reason.


I must have missed the amendment that would allow the Defendant to do this or the case law providing how this settlement is unconstitutional. Could you point me in the right direction?


IncredulousP said:


> Wow! Selling modded consoles with roms? Who would do that? Where was he even located? I mean like, where? Like, what city, street, ya know that's crazy damn. What a dumbass. So where was he selling them?


Likely Southern California where he was sued. The court needs personal jurisdiction over him and that's usually where he is domiciled or his business' principal place of business. There are exceptions but that's the most likely situation.


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## Agusto101 (Jan 3, 2020)

And he went to jail or what? There is a fee ?


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## Ericzander (Jan 3, 2020)

Agusto101 said:


> And he went to jail or what? There is a fee ?


Neither. The main post said what he settled for at the end.


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## Agusto101 (Jan 3, 2020)

Ericzander said:


> Neither. The main post said what he settled for at the end.


Oh i don't reached to the end Haha my bad uwu


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## SXAintSoBad (Jan 3, 2020)

What a dumbass.

He should have sold Atmosphere, not TX.
Then Nintendo would surely have left him alone.

(this is sarcasm, by the way).


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## Agusto101 (Jan 3, 2020)

Ericzander said:


> Neither. The main post said what he settled for at the end.


Ahh... no big deal at all haha I thought it would be a lot worse lol only return all the tools and dont ever use Nintendo again


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## Tapri (Jan 3, 2020)

Chary said:


> I thought it'd be funny cuz he's selling ROMs. That tends to be something that bootleggers do, so I found a Nintendo logo that didn't look TOO off...but still suspiciously weird


Fooled me with it, didnt even notice, but then again I'm just laying back in my chair and have my glasses off (astigmatism sucks).


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## the_randomizer (Jan 3, 2020)

Lesson is, don't be an idiot and sell ROMs, and get a real job to make money


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## eriol33 (Jan 3, 2020)

WhiteWakandan said:


> This shit is being done in most 3rd world countries - and no body cares.
> He was either reckless or thinking it'll be fine cause where hes from everyone and their dogs were doing it and getting away with it.


That's because Nintendo doesn't treat the 3rd world as a market


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## RPG_FAN128 (Jan 3, 2020)

Freaking finally.

Looks like 2020 is going to be a great year!


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## PoiRan (Jan 3, 2020)

He deserved it, and got away with a slap. Selling ROMs isn't ok. However, buying from this guy was hardly worse than downloading from sites making money from tons of ads. Maybe most users here have access to private non-profit trackers, I don't know.

I don't want to come across as grumpy, but IF you download games from shabby ad-filled malware spreading sites you cant blame someone for paying for roms.


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## WhiteWakandan (Jan 3, 2020)

RPG_FAN128 said:


> Freaking finally.
> 
> Looks like 2020 is going to be a great year!


lol, did you read the article? the guy got away with his crime scot-free.


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## Dust2dust (Jan 3, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> I agree and disagree with you. Guys like you and me we understand the process but soccer mom and dad or mom with 5 kids not going to have the time to configure files they prefer it already premade.
> 
> That's mainly who buy the devices


You are right, but that doesn't justify some jerks selling SD cards loaded with pirated games.  As was mentioned several times, neither a seller nor buyer be, when pirated roms are concerned.  Soccer moms who don't have the time or the patience to learn how to pirate should just buy the legit games, to compensate for all those savvy GBAtemp members people who know how to. Not fair for her? Maybe, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.


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## xdarkx (Jan 3, 2020)

What a great start to the new year! 

Wondering how much thought he put into this before he decided to sell roms.


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## Worldblender (Jan 3, 2020)

DeoNaught said:


> I wonder if they can be called to court about any Trinket M0, or only Trinket M0s being used for hacking, because even though they are mostly used for CFW, they totally have other uses.





The Real Jdbye said:


> You guys think he's really destroying all that stuff? It's not like they're going to come to his house and search through everything.
> Also, kinda funny he got ordered to destroy any Trinket M0 boards he has, considering that is a general purpose microprocessor that has nothing to do with the Switch really and it could have been done with any microprocessor that has a programmable USB port, the trinket just happens to be pretty small.



I better hope that after all this, that this doesn't mean that we'll no longer be able to purchase Trinket M0s, or that they end up being discontinued, even if they won't be used for this hacking purpose.

I know that selling pirated ROM images part is what got this person in trouble, and it makes me wonder why would a select few people ever decide to engage in this.


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## PrincessLillie (Jan 3, 2020)

Ericzander said:


> The part you cited stated "Defendant, including any of his agents." You wouldn't be implicated by this settlement.


You're being far too specific. I said _can _they, not _will _they or _have_ they.


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## DJPlace (Jan 3, 2020)

rule number one of ROMS.

you never sell  FUCKING ROMS!!

i agree with nintendo on this one. he was lucky to get warned. who knows if he will do it. next time IF he does he's going be bubba's playmate in jail.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 3, 2020)

Awful lot of people getting rather bent out of shape about selling ROMs. Rather amusing to see actually. Can't get even vaguely as worked up as some people seem to be. Bizarre really.



Dust2dust said:


> You are right, but that doesn't justify some jerks selling SD cards loaded with pirated games.  As was mentioned several times, neither a seller nor buyer be, when pirated roms are concerned.  Soccer moms who don't have the time or the patience to learn how to pirate should just buy the legit games, to compensate for all those savvy GBAtemp members people who know how to. Not fair for her? Maybe, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.


Is it what the North American set call soccer mothers, drivers of Chelsea tractors and the like that were the presumed target? I am sure there are some (or their spawn) that think they were onto a good thing but most times I see anything like this (I am more familiar with the pirated DVD and PS1 game days, though if I consider what I heard during the 360 DVD modding era and would probably be where I found many flash carts on the DS) it is the rather poorer communities/estates that make the most of such services.

Pacific mall in Toronto might be something to contemplate, or research the history of, if you want something a bit more local (or at least same country) for you.


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## Ev1l0rd (Jan 3, 2020)

Err, actually major but really relevant status update: This does not close the case. Rather, this is just an injunction. Took me a moment to realize it but uh tl;dr: This just means that the Defendant (the guy being sued) can't continue doing his currently illegal activity.

Nintendo will still have to pursue the actual case and the judge will have to pass judgement on that case (which, depending on the Defendants defense, who knows, maybe the judge could even rule in their favor. I don't _think_ that will be the case, but it's not impossible.) This is essentially a much harsher version of a Cease and Desist as it is right now, in that if this is broken the Defendant can be held in contempt of court or receive monetary sanctions and imprisonment.

They're pretty standard procedure and usually one of the first things filed for any legal case in which the Defendant can be somewhat reasonably expected to not stop the activity that they're being accused of.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



FAST6191 said:


> Awful lot of people getting rather bent out of shape about selling ROMs. Rather amusing to see actually. Can't get even vaguely as worked up as some people seem to be. Bizarre really.


Most people really don't like Team Xecuter (I don't plan on reiterating those reasons here lest we drag in everyone with an opinion on them) who has been explicitly mentioned in the court case and having a reseller of theirs explicitly linked with selling piracy and losing a lawsuit over those things... well, you can see how that gets people excited.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 3, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Most people really don't like Team Xecuter (I don't plan on reiterating those reasons here lest we drag in everyone with an opinion on them) who has been explicitly mentioned in the court case and having a reseller of theirs explicitly linked with selling piracy and losing a lawsuit over those things... well, you can see how that gets people excited.


Most people or just some really vocal types?


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## Ev1l0rd (Jan 3, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> Most people or just some really vocal types?


Depends on where you look I suppose. Most people I tend to seriously speak with at least have a base dislike towards them and if they don't tend to, it's usually because of a lack of knowledge or some sense of buyers remorse.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 3, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Depends on where you look I suppose. Most people I tend to seriously speak with at least have a base dislike towards them and if they don't tend to, it's usually because of a lack of knowledge or some sense of buyers remorse.


It was more that I was not seeing that in the replies here, either them being a reseller or it being tied to it. They just seemed upset at the selling of ROMs, something that is an unwise play as it puts you on an inevitable collision course but to the point of the moral outrage from me... nah.

That said most of my TX experience comes from the xbox and 360 side of things wherein they did great stuff, and killer DRM aside I have not particularly seen anything for the Switch that falls outside standard rules of play, and an awful lot of unsubstantiated allegations or miscast info. About as close as anybody really ever got to a properly coherent point was "XCI is only good for piracy" and "great, isn't it?" is the main reply there.


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## Subtle Demise (Jan 3, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> except all they got was a slap on the wrist not even a fine. total fucking injustice! when kongnutz pirates ONE shitty mario game and gets sued a million


Doesn't matter. You won't go to jail for not paying a lawsuit. It just affects your credit report (and if you're selling roms, chances are it probably isn't that great to begin with). So they could have sued him for 8 trillion of they wanted to, but I guarantee they wouldn't see a dime of it no matter what.


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## Goku1992A (Jan 3, 2020)

Dust2dust said:


> You are right, but that doesn't justify some jerks selling SD cards loaded with pirated games.  As was mentioned several times, neither a seller nor buyer be, when pirated roms are concerned.  Soccer moms who don't have the time or the patience to learn how to pirate should just buy the legit games, to compensate for all those savvy GBAtemp members people who know how to. Not fair for her? Maybe, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.



This happens daily... look on Ebay people are selling shiny pokemon using pokehex  haha he is just the 1 out of 1000a who got caught


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## Hayato213 (Jan 3, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> This happens daily... look on Ebay people are selling shiny pokemon using pokehex  haha he is just the 1 out of 1000a who got caught



Selling genned pokemon on eBay is totally different than selling backup of games, it is two different things.


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## Goku1992A (Jan 3, 2020)

Hayato213 said:


> Selling genned pokemon on eBay is totally different than selling backup of games, it is two different things.



It's kinda the same thing IMO. The pokemon isn't legitimate just used your hacked switch to get the glitched pokemon and just trade them over to your offical  switch for resale.  

Keep in mind buisness is buisness but the concept is still the same when it comes to wares people are just going to make a profit... 

The guy is kinda wrong for doing it but this is the same as someone who's selling drugs and etc he was too open about his services rather than being discreet I was talking to a seller that it's best to sell the system blank vs with games because sometimes police can entrapt you.

The guy was basically tipped off


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## Hayato213 (Jan 3, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> It's kinda the same thing IMO. The pokemon isn't legitimate just used your hacked switch to get the glitched pokemon and just trade them over to your offical  switch for resale.
> 
> Keep in mind buisness is buisness but the concept is still the same when it comes to wares people are just going to make a profit...
> 
> ...



Except Nintendo doesn't care if you if you are selling a genned pokemon, once you start selling backup of games then they have a  problem with it, it is the intellectual property of these different companies. Trading for a genned pokemon doesn't prove any copyright violation, for example, if Nintendo wants they can buy the seller item and used it as proof in court, that is what Sony did suing someone selling a 5.05 PS4 with backup.


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## smf (Jan 3, 2020)

DeoNaught said:


> I wonder if they can be called to court about any Trinket M0, or only Trinket M0s being used for hacking, because even though they are mostly used for CFW, they totally have other uses.



It's unlikely they would sell them, as there is so little margin there isn't much room for a small player. I think quite rightly the court would pay an interest if they were, in case they are selling them blank and then emailing saying "hey you can totally hack the switch with this".

While he did sell ROMs, which is dumb. Nintendo successfully sued loads of flash cart sellers in europe, even though they argued that the flash carts had a legitimate use for homebrew.

The court saying he can't posses a trinket is more interesting, I suspect they wouldn't be called to court just for using one because they wouldn't know he was using one. If they did and it was for a legimate reason, then I would assume he would have to offer a defense at that stage.


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## Goku1992A (Jan 3, 2020)

Hayato213 said:


> Except Nintendo doesn't care if you if you are selling a genned pokemon, once you start selling backup of games then they have a  problem with it, it is the intellectual property of these different companies. Trading for a genned pokemon doesn't prove any copyright violation, for example, if Nintendo wants they can buy the seller item and used it as proof in court, that is what Sony did suing someone selling a 5.05 PS4 with backup.



Oh damn I didnt know that.. I think that was the guy who had.to pay like 12k per backup he was selling.. 

On a side note  I thought people was banned using glitched pokemon online. Like a guy who would use a blastoise with wonder guard


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## altorn (Jan 3, 2020)

Should've done business in a 3rd world country like Panama.


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## 83TropicStorm (Jan 3, 2020)

So is hacking consoles now illegal or just distributing the software and hardware to "bypass Nintendo's security"? Or just hardware? If so, that's rediculous. It's my console, I should be able to do whatever I want with it. That's what ToS is for. If I don't do what Nintendo wants me to do with it then they can stop providing services like the eShop. Distributing ROMs I agree is pretty scummy but pirates gonna pirate, no matter what. What's next? Is Jailbreaking my iPhone going to be illegal or rooting my Android? What I gather from this, this is essentially Nintendo "loaning" us the console.


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## ClickCLK (Jan 3, 2020)

I can't understand how is this possible. Some guy stores a couple hundreds of 25+ year old NES games for free on not-so-popular website got millions of dollars of fine to pay and this man, who sold pirated games for the Switch,  Nintendo's most recent system, for real money, goes away with only a warning. How? Where's the justice in all of this?

Looking at the document, not only he will not pay anything to Nintedo, he will not even pay for their legal expences. I just dont understand. HOW???


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## DaveLister (Jan 3, 2020)

I kinda think of this poor guy like Scottie .


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## The Real Jdbye (Jan 3, 2020)

Worldblender said:


> I better hope that after all this, that this doesn't mean that we'll no longer be able to purchase Trinket M0s, or that they end up being discontinued, even if they won't be used for this hacking purpose.
> 
> I know that selling pirated ROM images part is what got this person in trouble, and it makes me wonder why would a select few people ever decide to engage in this.


Nah, the ruling only applies to him. They can't ban a general purpose microcontroller, not unless the creators behind it were endorsing or providing instructions on how to use it on the Switch. They probably don't even know that this is happening.


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## BaamAlex (Jan 3, 2020)

83TropicStorm said:


> So is hacking consoles now illegal


No. Only what the guy did is illegal.


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## 64bitmodels (Jan 3, 2020)

wow, what an asshole
I hope that dipshit got what he deserved


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## TheZander (Jan 3, 2020)

> must have missed the amendment that would allow the Defendant to do this or the case law providing how this settlement is unconstitutional. Could you point me in the right direction?




Hello fellow Zander I will look up the amendment right away and get back to you


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## smf (Jan 3, 2020)

83TropicStorm said:


> So is hacking consoles now illegal or just distributing the software and hardware to "bypass Nintendo's security"? Or just hardware? If so, that's rediculous. It's my console, I should be able to do whatever I want with it.



Where have you been? Although it depends on the country, it's been illegal to hack your console to bypass DRM in the US for years thanks to the DMCA (whether it would cover Atmosphere is something I would love to see tested in court, because it bypasses DRM but doesn't by itself allow backups, but nudge nudge....).

Similar laws in other countries tend to target people selling services, but AFAICT DMCA even covers just doing it yourself. They've obviously got to catch you though & I can't see there being any reason to actually try to take you to court for just modifying your own console even though you're not allowed to do it.



83TropicStorm said:


> What's next? Is Jailbreaking my iPhone going to be illegal or rooting my Android?



Jailbreaking phones has been specially exempted by the US courts.


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## BaamAlex (Jan 3, 2020)

83TropicStorm said:


> What's next? Is Jailbreaking my iPhone going to be illegal or rooting my Android?


The only thing you will lose is your warranty. Not more. Modding consoles is and has always been legal.


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## SXAintSoBad (Jan 3, 2020)

BaamAlex said:


> The only thing you will lose is your warranty. Not more. Modding consoles is and has always been legal.


@smf is correct and you are incorrect.

Modifying a console which has DRM to bypass the DRM is unequivocally against the law in the USA, specifically the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA.


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## Hells Malice (Jan 4, 2020)

I'm more surprised he survived without going bankrupt


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## smf (Jan 4, 2020)

SXAintSoBad said:


> @smf is correct and you are incorrect.
> 
> Modifying a console which has DRM to bypass the DRM is unequivocally against the law in the USA, specifically the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA.



One of the exemptions is hacking a smart tv to install 3rd party applications, which strongly suggests to me that fusee/gelee or Atmosphere itself might infringe the DMCA too

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2018-23241.pdf

_Specifically, the petitions state that, absent the exemptions, TPMs applied to the enumerated products would have an adverse effect on noninfringing uses, such as being able to install third-party applications on a smartphone or to download third-party software on a smart TV to enable interoperability._


_(7) Computer programs that enable smart televisions to execute lawfully obtained software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications with computer programs on the smart television

_
Only people in the US are bound by this though, the laws in other countries are different despite them introducing legislation to enforce the Technical Protection Mechanism WIPO treaty.


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## Retronian-Psyverse (Jan 4, 2020)

Good riddance now all we need is to stop these ingrates from promoting piracy on the switch. So instead of wasting hundreds on one thing that breaks the law how about actually supporting the devs who pour hours of their lives to make something amazing only to have it stolen, makes me sick to see things like this happen to hardworking people.


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## smf (Jan 4, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> So instead of wasting hundreds on one thing that breaks the law how about actually supporting the devs who pour hours of their lives to make something amazing only to have it stolen, makes me sick to see things like this happen to hardworking people.



You want to support the devs by trolling all threads with posts about hating TX?

I think there are more important things to get worked up about to be honest and I'm sure SciresM doesn't need you to make yourself sick over it.


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## Retronian-Psyverse (Jan 4, 2020)

they will  and hopefully the tx will be taken out.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> You want to support the devs by trolling all threads with posts about hating TX?
> 
> I think there are more important things to get worked up about to be honest and I'm sure SciresM doesn't need you to make yourself sick over it.


Actually supporting piracy is just annoying.


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## Xmortal (Jan 4, 2020)

83TropicStorm said:


> So is hacking consoles now illegal or just distributing the software and hardware to "bypass Nintendo's security"? Or just hardware? If so, that's rediculous. It's my console, I should be able to do whatever I want with it. That's what ToS is for. If I don't do what Nintendo wants me to do with it then they can stop providing services like the eShop. Distributing ROMs I agree is pretty scummy but pirates gonna pirate, no matter what. What's next? Is Jailbreaking my iPhone going to be illegal or rooting my Android? What I gather from this, this is essentially Nintendo "loaning" us the console.



Have you read the terms of use? When buying the console or games we are buying the user license. In other words, the console or the games do not belong to us. And this is not just from Nintendo. They are all companies. 

For example, my father lost 600 dollars to buy the Adobe Photoshop CS3 suite for Apple, since Adobe removed the activation support even from the digital version that they give you with serial original. It also just happened to me with Microsoft Office 2007 Student Version that I had installed on my Sony Vaio laptop with Windows 7. I had to download a newer pirated version to use it again.


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## Ev1l0rd (Jan 4, 2020)

ClickCLK said:


> I can't understand how is this possible. Some guy stores a couple hundreds of 25+ year old NES games for free on not-so-popular website got millions of dollars of fine to pay and this man, who sold pirated games for the Switch,  Nintendo's most recent system, for real money, goes away with only a warning. How? Where's the justice in all of this?
> 
> Looking at the document, not only he will not pay anything to Nintedo, he will not even pay for their legal expences. I just dont understand. HOW???


This isn't a ruling, it's an injunction. It's something courts grant if there is a serious risk that someone may continue their potentially illicit behavior. It's a warning that if this continues [for as long as the case is going] he could receive additional fines/jail time and be held in contempt of court.

The case is still ongoing.


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## smf (Jan 4, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> Actually supporting piracy is just annoying.



Are you sure you're on the right web site?


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## brickmii82 (Jan 4, 2020)

It’s not illegal to hack your console. That’s like saying it’s illegal to modify the fuel trim in your cars computer programming. There’s an abundance of precedent already set. This guy got sued for selling pirated software, not hacking his console. 

The defense is simple. The DMCA does not override Constitutional rights. You can defend this under several Amendments. Pick which way you want embarrass the plaintiff. Infringing personal liberties is the usual route lawyers go. 

Upon purchase an item is empirically yours in its whole entirety. This is the material precedent established for a decade now.


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## Anxiety_timmy (Jan 5, 2020)

This is why you don't do piracy kids!
(its just a joke jeez)


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## ClickCLK (Jan 5, 2020)

Ev1l0rd said:


> This isn't a ruling, it's an injunction. It's something courts grant if there is a serious risk that someone may continue their potentially illicit behavior. It's a warning that if this continues [for as long as the case is going] he could receive additional fines/jail time and be held in contempt of court.
> 
> The case is still ongoing.



It makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Retronian-Psyverse (Jan 5, 2020)

That i'll admit is a pain but downloading games you don't own isn't cool just shows laziness to go to wallmart, best buy or where ever to get the game.  And I know people here will still "suck TX dick thinking oh i haven't got caught yet give it time and you will.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 5, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> That i'll admit is a pain but downloading games you don't own isn't cool just shows laziness to go to wallmart, best buy or where ever to get the game.  And I know people here will still "suck TX dick thinking oh i haven't got caught yet give it time and you will.


Other than the dubious stuff with third party investigators back when torrents were seriously popular has anybody got a nice letter in recent years?


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## Deleted-515388 (Jan 5, 2020)

what the hell he was thinking...
but he get off lightly


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## disenylover1234 (Jan 7, 2020)

The man get off lightly
WHAT did you expect
Selling roms hun


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## smf (Jan 7, 2020)

brickmii82 said:


> That’s like saying it’s illegal to modify the fuel trim in your cars computer programming.



I'm not sure that is a good analogy, there are modifications that would make your car illegal to drive on the public highway.



brickmii82 said:


> The DMCA does not override Constitutional rights. You can defend this under several Amendments. Pick which way you want embarrass the plaintiff. Infringing personal liberties is the usual route lawyers go



Could you list them all?

Surely you only have liberty while acting lawfully though?


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## brickmii82 (Jan 7, 2020)

smf said:


> I'm not sure that is a good analogy, there are modifications that would make your car illegal to drive on the public highway.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you list them all?


No because we've had this discussion before, and yet despite being presented evidence you chose to entertain misinformation further. So now, you can do your own research, or not. I really don't care. And folks can take whichever side they deem as best, fact. Again, I really don't care. Meanwhile folks will continue to find mod shops all over the country operating fully within their legal rights.


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## smf (Jan 7, 2020)

brickmii82 said:


> No because we've had this discussion before, and yet despite being presented evidence you chose to entertain misinformation further. So now, you can do your own research, or not. I really don't care. And folks can take whichever side they deem as best, fact. Again, I really don't care. Meanwhile folks will continue to find mod shops all over the country operating fully within their legal rights.



Have we? Could you point me to it? You understand that nobody has to accept your evidence, because your evidence can be wrong ? If everyone who provided evidence was automatically right, then we wouldn't need judges and juries.

It sounds like you should be offering your legal advice to drug cooks who are unconstitionally arrested. How can it be illegal to mix some chemicals together? right?


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## brickmii82 (Jan 7, 2020)

smf said:


> Have we? Could you point me to it?
> 
> It sounds like you should be offering your legal advice to drug cooks who are unconstitionally arrested. How can it be illegal to mix some chemicals together? right?


You can spout sanctimonious whataboutism garbage to your hearts desire, and yet those hundreds of mod shops will continue selling hacks and hacked consoles. 

Sounds like reading and comprehension aren’t your strong suit. I said look it up yourself. Or not.


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## smf (Jan 7, 2020)

brickmii82 said:


> You can spout sanctimonious whataboutism garbage to your hearts desire, and yet those hundreds of mod shops will continue selling hacks and hacked consoles.



Can you provide some evidence to back that up?

_Sanctimonious: making a show of being morally superior to other people._

_If you say that someone is sanctimonious, you disapprove of them because you think that they are trying to appear morally better than other people._

I was discussing legality, not morality. There is a very big difference between the two.



brickmii82 said:


> Sounds like reading and comprehension aren’t your strong suit. I said look it up yourself. Or not.



No, you first told me to look up the constitutional amendments that you could use to embarass the plaintiff. Then I asked to show me where we'd had the conversation before. Are you saying I should have assumed you would react in this way from the first post? It's on me for giving you the benefit of the doubt?

I don't remember having a discussion with you before, but if it went like this then it's no wonder I didn't accept what you were saying.


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## MasterJ360 (Jan 7, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> That i'll admit is a pain but downloading games you don't own isn't cool just shows laziness to go to wallmart, best buy or where ever to get the game.  And I know people here will still "suck TX dick thinking oh i haven't got caught yet give it time and you will.


Piracy isn't about just TX its literally everywhere on the net that ppl do on a daily basis even music and movies. This thread is a party of white Knights behind keyboards. The real issue here is you got uneducated folks selling piracy in the public when its really a "Closed Behind Door" thing. TX doesn't sell roms btw


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## Retronian-Psyverse (Jan 7, 2020)

MasterJ360 said:


> Piracy isn't about just TX its literally everywhere on the net that ppl do on a daily basis even music and movies. This thread is a party of white Knights behind keyboards. The real issue here is you got uneducated folks selling piracy in the public when its really a "Closed Behind Door" thing. TX doesn't sell roms btw



I'm fully aware of that but the main factor i'm getting pissed over is these idiots support piracy! Ok I get the switch is limited and has faults (the joy-con drift & dead pixels) and lack of themes and virtual console  but is that really the reason idiots like this want to hack/mod a console still early in it's life? why not wait until  the next console is out  then mod the shit out of it  because then support for the actual system will  have stopped and no worry about getting found out and shut down  and the company wont give a fuck.  But NO  team like this think "OOOOOOO new system let's mod the shit out of it and then sell it for  hundreds of GBP Dollars or whatever currency in the world.


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## XDel (Jan 7, 2020)

How dare he try to make a living!!! Damn him! I only support the big corporations who place safety nets around their buildings so when employees try to escape their misery through suicide, the are caught, rounded up, and re-introduced to their tedious, soulless labors instead.


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## MasterJ360 (Jan 7, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> I'm fully aware of that but the main factor i'm getting pissed over is these idiots support piracy! Ok I get the switch is limited and has faults (the joy-con drift & dead pixels) and lack of themes and virtual console  but is that really the reason idiots like this want to hack/mod a console still early in it's life? why not wait until  the next console is out  then mod the shit out of it  because then support for the actual system will  have stopped and no worry about getting found out and shut down  and the company wont give a fuck.  But NO  team like this think "OOOOOOO new system let's mod the shit out of it and then sell it for  hundreds of GBP Dollars or whatever currency in the world.


None of that matters when the Console itself is breaking records in sales. Sure I can understand why you or some folks get upset b/c you have to pay for your games, but piracy is a mere mosquito bite to popular titles that are selling fast. Hell even pirates tend to buy games when they want to play online which is the sole reason of Emunand. But you can't punish the ppl for using it if its out there for access. Its like that one guy from the PC Steam community that had an anti piracy hack tool for steam games and if it detected a pirated copy it would delete the files right off your computer. Sure he had good intentions, but it only made him look bad in the act of malware. I may have a JB PS4, but I still dropped $360 on the FF7 1st Class Edition even tho ppl are finding ways to play newer games on older firms


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## FAST6191 (Jan 7, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> I'm fully aware of that but the main factor i'm getting pissed over is these idiots support piracy! Ok I get the switch is limited and has faults (the joy-con drift & dead pixels) and lack of themes and virtual console  but is that really the reason idiots like this want to hack/mod a console still early in it's life? why not wait until  the next console is out  then mod the shit out of it  because then support for the actual system will  have stopped and no worry about getting found out and shut down  and the company wont give a fuck.  But NO  team like this think "OOOOOOO new system let's mod the shit out of it and then sell it for  hundreds of GBP Dollars or whatever currency in the world.


Probably a case of don't feed the troll but... yeah

ROM hacks (unless I am mistaken and all those games come out utter customisable perfection right off the hop), cheats, homebrew, ease of use in everything from saves and storage to not having to lug carts around... all non concepts or something?


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## SXAintSoBad (Jan 7, 2020)

brickmii82 said:


> Meanwhile folks will continue to find mod shops all over the country operating fully within their legal rights.


Folks will continue to find mod shops all over the country: True. The barrier to entry is low.
Operating fully within their legal rights: False. Just because they are operating does not mean they are legal.

Show me even ONE legal precedent where a court found in favour of a mod shop in a DMCA circumvention lawsuit in the US and allowed them to keep operating and I'll change my tune.


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## rsx (Jan 7, 2020)

Console modder here. I don't sell games or roms, I only install modchips. People who ask are ignored, the money would be better but it's illegal.


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## smf (Jan 7, 2020)

Retronian-Psyverse said:


> I'm fully aware of that but the main factor i'm getting pissed over is these idiots support piracy!



Do you get pissed over everyone who enables piracy?


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## pDrissy (Jan 7, 2020)

Freaking GREED is what’s wrong with people nowadays.. so sad though.. He must be very happy he got away with a warning!! Should learn him!


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## TheXpertXD (Jan 8, 2020)

Yeaa, they prob shouldn't have been selling things that not only don't belong to them but can also be obtained in a free manner, almost sounds like a scam lmaoo. Greedy pirates are the worst kind


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