# Gary Bowser from Team Xecuter pleads guilty to charges, agrees to pay Nintendo $4.5 million



## Alexander1970 (Nov 2, 2021)

....I am sure he can pay the "Fine".....right out of his Purse......


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 2, 2021)

Smithers, my wallet's in my right front pocket!


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## JuanBaNaNa (Nov 2, 2021)

Wow, he casually has 4.5 million?


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## ChibiMofo (Nov 2, 2021)

He's facing up to 5 years on the plea deal and his co-conspirators are facing up to 20. Always good to see scum brought to justice. Enjoy your time in prison, Gary!


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## regnad (Nov 2, 2021)

So long, Ga(r)y Bowser!


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## Jiehfeng (Nov 2, 2021)

This will go down in history.


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## zoogie (Nov 2, 2021)

Damn, 4.5 million. He could've bought Resetera if he hadn't gotten busted


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## Ottoclav (Nov 2, 2021)

Are we okay with this? Am I supposed to hate this guy, or think he is a Martyr? I'm so confused.


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## osaka35 (Nov 2, 2021)

pleading guilty means precedence wasn't set, right? 



Ottoclav said:


> Are we okay with this? Am I supposed to hate this guy, or think he is a Martyr? I'm so confused.


why not both?


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## Purple_Shyguy (Nov 2, 2021)

ChibiMofo said:


> He's facing up to 5 years on the plea deal and his co-conspirators are facing up to 20. Always good to see scum brought to justice. Enjoy your time in prison, Gary!


Scum? He sold mod chips and a custom firmware that we all use. This entire site is built around hacking, piracy, mod chips etc for decades.


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## tpax (Nov 2, 2021)

zoogie said:


> Damn, 4.5 million. He could've bought Resetera if he hadn't gotten busted


Why would he buy a place that's crowded by mentally ill individuals? 

Also don't get all the hate. TX were the first to bring mods and piracy to the Switch, and the only ones to release a working modchip. People should be thankful.


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## kcajjones (Nov 2, 2021)

I hardly think this crime has actually hurt anyone. I'm not saying what he did/what SX is, is right, but it's clearly not hurt switch sales of hardware or software in any large way, and no one is suffering because of it, except those responsible. 

Hacking the switch was a great success, however, as always, trying to profit from it is where you become as bad as Nintendo themselves. Sx's priority of piracy above homebrew was absolutely clear from day one. Had they just sold the OS with the ability for others to install addons/launchers for piracy it may have been different.


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## caki883 (Nov 2, 2021)

Respect , he opened the world of v2 cfw. Thank you


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## djpannda (Nov 2, 2021)

sooo.. does what mean we get an update now?


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## mikefor20 (Nov 2, 2021)

Ottoclav said:


> Are we okay with this? Am I supposed to hate this guy, or think he is a Martyr? I'm so confused.


You're supposed to think for yourself. This is why SX has so much hate in the first place. Bandwagon thinking. Sjw zombies don't even know a damn thing. Typical.


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## Ericzander (Nov 2, 2021)

osaka35 said:


> pleading guilty means precedence wasn't set, right?


By pleading guilty instead of being found guilty or not guilty at trial, the court doesn't have to articulate its reasoning behind it's ruling. So in that way precedence wasn't set because we don't know how the court will rule.

Whether the precedence would have been binding or persuasive in the first place is a different story and, at this point, hypothetical. Unless Bowser appeals this ruling within the appropriate timeframe and renters his plea of not guilty.


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## pedro702 (Nov 2, 2021)

kcajjones said:


> I hardly think this crime has actually hurt anyone. I'm not saying what he did/what SX is, is right, but it's clearly not hurt switch sales of hardware or software in any large way, and no one is suffering because of it, except those responsible.
> 
> Hacking the switch was a great success, however, as always, trying to profit from it is where you become as bad as Nintendo themselves. Sx's priority of piracy above homebrew was absolutely clear from day one. Had they just sold the OS with the ability for others to install addons/launchers for piracy it may have been different.


preety sure he hurted alot of software sales , with the switch having so much install base more than 90 millions consoles even if it was like 1% of hacked switchers that would be a damn huge money that was lost of software sales nintendo and 3rd party alike.


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## ZeroFX (Nov 2, 2021)

rip


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

> Team Xecuter has caused an estimated number between $65 million to $150 million in losses to video game companies.



Riiiiight... What a range this is...


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Nov 2, 2021)

In the case Bowser vs Bowser...


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## SaulFemm (Nov 2, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You're supposed to think for yourself. This is why SX has so much hate in the first place. Bandwagon thinking. Swj zombies don't even know a damn thing. Typical.


The hell does this have to do with social justice lol


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## pucky (Nov 2, 2021)

Can some one casualy pay me 4.5 mil ? i could use it for uh... things. Maybe i start a potato farm with that money, i like potatoes :3


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## caki883 (Nov 2, 2021)

pucky said:


> Can some one casualy pay me 4.5 mil ? i could use it for uh... things. Maybe i start a potato farm with that money, i like potatoes :3


make a "Pucky OS" and make chips


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## mikefor20 (Nov 2, 2021)

SaulFemm said:


> The hell does this have to do with social justice lol


It's all cancel culture. Social or software. Jumping on the bandwagon and canceling someone or something because its the thing to do. SXOS didn't steal YOUR code.  How is it not the exact same thing?

 Software Justice Wankers.


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## SonicRings (Nov 2, 2021)

Surprised to see hate here of all places. The hell is wrong with you early commenters? You should feel sad, not happy.


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## FAKEdemicBioPYSCHONANOWAR (Nov 2, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Scum? He sold mod chips and a custom firmware that we all use. This entire site is built around hacking, piracy, mod chips etc for decades.


He's a hero tbh for the free market and free people!


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## mikefor20 (Nov 2, 2021)

sonicrings said:


> Surprised to see hate here of all places. The hell is wrong with you early commenters? You should feel sad, not happy.


Ingrates


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## Plazorn (Nov 2, 2021)

Imagine having to give up everything…


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## Spider_Man (Nov 2, 2021)

So much hate towards a scene that provided people the tools you all used to allow piracy.

problem with the internet, no respect for the scene and you all wonder why no one will bother to try find a new exploits for new consoles, as soon as they get caught or dont provide updates, everyone then seems to hate.

id say gutted to be them and say thanks for what you did for all these years.


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## Armadillo (Nov 2, 2021)

Don't like this. You should be able to do what you like to your own hardware.


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## mikefor20 (Nov 2, 2021)

Retroboy said:


> So much hate towards a scene that provided people the tools you all used to allow piracy.
> 
> problem with the internet, no respect for the scene and you all wonder why no one will bother to try find a new exploits for new consoles, as soon as they get caught or dont provide updates, everyone then seems to hate.
> 
> id say gutted to be them and say thanks for what you did for all these years.


Hypocritical ingrates. This whole time they reap the rewards but condemn the man. There's no getting through to them with logic. They're all sharing a brain. Wait a minute. You're one of the worst ones. Way to flip sides. Even worse.


Armadillo said:


> Don't like this. You should be able to do what you like to your own hardware.


In most places it is quasi legal to do whatever you want with your Hardware except for when you want to circumvent copy protection. You sign some of your rights away when you accept the EULA


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## linuxares (Nov 2, 2021)

That's one hell of a deal! 4.5 mils can Max cover for him without issues.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Nov 2, 2021)

How du yu Hak?


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## AshuraZro (Nov 2, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Wow, he casually has 4.5 million?


What he has to pay doesn't necessarily mean it's what he has. He'll have to pay into that for years/decades.


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## Chary (Nov 2, 2021)

A crime is a crime. SX OS never really shied away from being blatantly able to use "backups", and most of the homebrew was specifically for backups. 

That's not to say I don't think SX OS was real neato, but if anyone expected Gary to get out of this without any charges or wallet-destroying damage payments, or on the basis of being free to do whatever you want to hardware, you'd be crazy. He's lucky they dropped the laundering stuff.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Nov 2, 2021)

AshuraZro said:


> What he has to pay doesn't necessarily mean it's what he has. He'll have to pay into that for years/decades.




Structured payments, any taxable income/assets, ninty will just take a portion until they get 4.5 mil


Kinda like child support


They probably will ban him from being able to use a computer,  they already took all his tech


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## spotanjo3 (Nov 2, 2021)

Well.. he deserved it but if people like you didn't buy it from him then he wouldn't be here and it wouldn't existed. People buy it form him is the reason why he faced the jail time and fined. Scum ? Maybe but people who bought it from him is a scum also.


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## RednaxelaNnamtra (Nov 2, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It's all cancel culture. Social or software. Jumping on the bandwagon and canceling someone or something because its the thing to do. SXOS didn't steal YOUR code.  How is it not the exact same thing?
> 
> Software Justice Wankers.


Not complying with gpl had directly infringed the users rights to access the source too, so it affected the people complainig directly. As a dev I also couldn't really recommend sxos with a good conscience because of this, and all they had to do to prevent this would have been to give credit and release parts of their firmware as open source, that wheren't even core parts of why users used sxos, and all that while finanzially profiting of it.

I really liked their rcm dongle, I use it till this day to inject a payload and boot hekate. And their modchip also wasn't bad, as far as I know, but still I couldn't overlook the other problems, so I only recomended their stuff, when there was no other way, and with a footnote about what they were doing.


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## CompSciOrBust (Nov 2, 2021)

spotanjo3 said:


> Well.. he deserved it but if people like you didn't buy it from him then he wouldn't be here and it wouldn't existed. People buy it form him is the reason why he faced the jail time and fined. Scum ? Maybe but people who bought it from him is a scum also.


I'm scum for buying an SX Core to write homebrew on my Mariko?


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## digipimp75 (Nov 2, 2021)

i'm sure Nintendo will use that money to improve their shitty online service.... right?


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Nov 2, 2021)

CompSciOrBust said:


> I'm scum for buying an SX Core to write homebrew on my Mariko?


No,  but they have a right to protect what is legally theirs, 


you agreed to the terms


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## mikefor20 (Nov 2, 2021)

RednaxelaNnamtra said:


> Not complying with gpl had directly infringed the users rights to access the source too, so it affected the people complainig directly. As a dev I also couldn't really recommend sxos with a good conscience because of this, and all they had to do to prevent this would have been to give credit and release parts of their firmware as open source, that wheren't even core parts of why users used sxos, and all that while finanzially profiting of it.
> 
> I really liked their rcm dongle, I use it till this day to inject a payload and boot hekate. And their modchip also wasn't bad, as far as I know, but still I couldn't overlook the other problems, so I only recomended their stuff, when there was no other way, and with a footnote about what they were doing.


Doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of the people complaining are just following the leader.  They are all sharing a brain.


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## sod125 (Nov 2, 2021)

Why are people grateful to this guy? The real work was done by their hackers and he wasn't even the head of the whole enterprise, it was all Max.



linuxares said:


> That's one hell of a deal! 4.5 mils can Max cover for him without issues.



What if Max decides to throw him under the bus and walks free again? Like, how many times has he gotten in trouble with Nintendo in the past, must be like third time by now? Looks like he might want to retire from his criminal career after this one though.


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## KirovAir (Nov 2, 2021)

People who are celebrating this should really wake up. This is a big loss to device freedom and being able to do with your device what you want.
This is an 'extreme' case with piracy in mind of course for TX, but TX themselves did not pirate all those games, the users did. It's like selling a knife and complaining people are stabbing with it. I understand the trail, I understand why Ninty is going after them but the jail time and fine is WAY out of proportion. They can only go after the copyright violation for the gamecard loading code, but not the actual lost sales imho. TX are money grabbing assholes who violate any sense of copyright. But 5 years for the fucking news guy and possible 20 for the others? Lolwat

This case can be used as an example to go after SciresM or Atmoshpere-like solutions in the future.


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## DudderButter (Nov 2, 2021)

He should have saw it coming.


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## CompSciOrBust (Nov 2, 2021)

ClancyDaEnlightened said:


> No,  but they have a right to protect what is legally theirs,
> 
> 
> you agreed to the terms


The guy I replied to said that people buying from Gary Bowser are Scum. I bought an SX Core with the sole intention of using my V2 Switch for developing homebrew. So my question to the person who I replied to (@spotanjo3 ) is am I scum?

Edit: Y'all can say what you want about TX but if it wasn't for TX the only hackable switches today would be the unpatched V1s. Now every version can be hacked and used for homebrew. It really isn't just piracy.


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## pwjpssdfvqyuhweuxx (Nov 2, 2021)

hahahahaha


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## Spider_Man (Nov 2, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Hypocritical ingrates. This whole time they reap the rewards but condemn the man. There's no getting through to them with logic. They're all sharing a brain. Wait a minute. You're one of the worst ones. Way to flip sides. Even worse.


and where have i flipped sides?

where do i show disrespect to those that bring us hacks/exploits?


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## RednaxelaNnamtra (Nov 2, 2021)

Chary said:


> A crime is a crime. SX OS never really shied away from being blatantly able to use "backups", and most of the homebrew was specifically for backups.
> 
> That's not to say I don't think SX OS was real neato, but if anyone expected Gary to get out of this without any charges or wallet-destroying damage payments, or on the basis of being free to do whatever you want to hardware, you'd be crazy. He's lucky they dropped the laundering stuff.


Didn't they even try to create a subscription for pirated switch games at some point? Thats as far away from legal gray area and backups as they could be, they didn't even try to look non piracy xD


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Nov 2, 2021)

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## CompSciOrBust (Nov 2, 2021)

RednaxelaNnamtra said:


> Didn't they even try to create a subscription for pirated switch games at some point? Thats as far away from legal gray area and backups as they could be, they didn't even try to look non piracy xD


That was completely unrelated to TX. Someone copied what HBG was doing and stuck it behind a paywall. There is absolutely zero evidence that TX was behind it. Sure Gary reported on it but Gary reported on lots of things, the Rebug Switch Me modchip for example, that doesn't make Gary a part of Team Rebug. For all we know the HWFly people were behind StargateNX


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## smf (Nov 2, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> By pleading guilty instead of being found guilty or not guilty at trial, the court doesn't have to articulate its reasoning behind it's ruling. So in that way precedence wasn't set because we don't know how the court will rule.


Sure, there are a lot of truly innocent people who plead guilty because they know the court will convict them and a plea deal is their only option.

But Gary was actually guilty of the actions he was accused of, I don't think there was any doubt about that.

The DMCA isn't new, whether it's legal to sell circumvention devices for consoles has been repeatedly discussed in court. I'm not sure another case will change how the courts have viewed it in the past.


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## lordhell (Nov 2, 2021)

He made modchips/hacks for self profit, good luck on jail!


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## The Catboy (Nov 2, 2021)

Team Xecuter is still not done yet, just you all wait and see! We are gonnna have an SXOS update any minute now! /s


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

KirovAir said:


> People who are celebrating this should really wake up. This is a big loss to device freedom and being able to do with your device what you want.
> This is an 'extreme' case with piracy in mind of course for TX, but TX themselves did not pirate all those games, the users did. It's like selling a knife and complaining people are stabbing with it. I understand the trail, I understand why Ninty is going after them but the jail time and fine is WAY out of proportion. They can only go after the copyright violation for the gamecard loading code, but not the actual lost sales imho. TX are money grabbing assholes who violate any sense of copyright. But 5 years for the fucking news guy and possible 20 for the others? Lolwat
> 
> This case can be used as an example to go after SciresM or Atmoshpere-like solutions in the future.


The knife didn't violate and circumvent copyright laws. So...


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## CompSciOrBust (Nov 2, 2021)

sod125 said:


> Why are people grateful to this guy? The real work was done by their hackers and he wasn't even the head of the whole enterprise, it was all Max.
> 
> 
> 
> What if Max decides to throw him under the bus and walks free again? Like, how many times has he gotten in trouble with Nintendo in the past, must be like third time by now? Looks like he might want to retire from his criminal career after this one though.


I don't know the extent of Gary's involvement in TX and he never mentioned developing the hardware to me but Gary was a talented electrical engineer with an honorary degree from Princeton. Gary might not have developed SX Core but I'm sure he could have if he wanted to.

As for Max, he is free because his lawyer stopped him from being extradited to America and once in France he was safe because France is in favor of consumer rights.


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## WesMods (Nov 2, 2021)

ChibiMofo said:


> He's facing up to 5 years on the plea deal and his co-conspirators are facing up to 20. Always good to see scum brought to justice. Enjoy your time in prison, Gary!


Calling someone scum and wishing bad things on him really says a lot about you. This guy is no more a pirate then any of us onthis site. Shame on any of you who frequent this site which is built on the technology and software used to make piracy a possibility for all of us. TeamXecuter has been around for 20 years helping people like us have fun and now he gets to pay the price while we all sit home nice and comfy.


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## Stealphie (Nov 2, 2021)

Fuck xecuter but guys this isn't a good thing


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## Clydefrosch (Nov 2, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It's all cancel culture. Social or software. Jumping on the bandwagon and canceling someone or something because its the thing to do. SXOS didn't steal YOUR code.  How is it not the exact same thing?
> 
> Software Justice Wankers.


they stole open source codeand sold it as closed source, they added brick code for fun at some point, the reason they were hated by some wasn't cancel culture, it was what they did to make money.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

Stealphie said:


> Fuck xecuter but guys this isn't a good thing


Depends on how you want to look at it. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." That's what comes to mind in this specific instance. It can set the precedent that something like a chip to enable CFW shouldn't be allowed to circulate in the open market. However, they openly advertised their offerings as being able to play pirated games. So...


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## Kopimist (Nov 2, 2021)

RIP Team Xecuter. It's too bad it had to come too this. Sure could these chips enable piracy, yes you'd be a fool to deny that, but the chips are a tool. You can use them for homebrew and legitimate backups as well. Its up to the end user how to use it. Much like a handgun (at least in my country theyre legal) there are plenty of legitimate reasons to own one but you can also use it to rob a bank or otherwise harm others. Should we ban all guns for this reason? No, if somebody chooses to use a tool for an illegal purpose thats on them. Not on the manufacturer.

This is a travesty for freedom when it comes to devices in general. You should have the freedom to tinker with the hardware you own of course forfeiting any sort of warranty and risking being banned from online services. 

Granted facing Nintendo's legal team in court would not be wise because they have some of the best lawyers out there and will likely get a conviction regardless of actual legality. I don't really blame Gary for taking the plea deal here. It's a bad situation all around imo


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 2, 2021)

if bower goes to jail...mario will be out of a job


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## Rahkeesh (Nov 2, 2021)

Ideally I would've liked to see TX punished for illegally distributing Nintendo and Atmosphere code, not for creating circumventing hardware. Because the former is actual direct piracy for profit, and also at the core of the hater's complaints, while the latter applies to virtually any modchip for any console, including the long-dead ones or even things like ODEs that are a big part of keeping old games and systems alive.


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## Jonoxley (Nov 2, 2021)

So when is the sxos 4.0 coming out  jk


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## linuxares (Nov 2, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


> if bower goes to jail...mario will be out of a job


We always got Wart


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## The Catboy (Nov 2, 2021)

Jonoxley said:


> So when is the sxos 4.0 coming out  jk


Soon™ They can still rock the Switch scene in 2026!


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## PowerBall253 (Nov 2, 2021)

When I was told the Switch scene was childish, I thought they were exaggerating...
Someone from the scene that made it possible for thousands of people to put CFW on their switches being arrested is NEVER a good thing (only for Nintendo maybe).


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## PowerBall253 (Nov 2, 2021)

Of course they did a lot wrong, but celebrating it like this is kinda sick.


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## Tatsuna (Nov 2, 2021)

As always, good and bad things happen from one single event.
Xecuter deserved it and they knew this day was going to come sooner or later. I don't think they were stupid. Especially if you do these kind of things with Nintendo, which has always shown to be the harshier when it comes to the hacking scene among the big three of gaming.

At the same time, we've lost one of the founding fathers of the Switch hacking scene, as well as the ones who were always ready to take things to the next level.
Now that they're gone I won't expect much improvements and I actually am worried about the next Nintendo consoles, including the OLED model.
Is this going to end just like the Playstation and Xbox hacking scene? I sure hope not, as I've met some extraordinary people during all those years and had fun like I wouldn't ever be able to have if I didn't have an hacked console.


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## The Catboy (Nov 2, 2021)

PowerBall253 said:


> When I was told the Switch scene was childish, I thought they were exaggerating...
> Someone from the scene that made it possible for thousands of people to put CFW on their switches being arrested is NEVER a good thing (only for Nintendo maybe).


Gary was just marketing and nothing else to the scene. He spent much of his time making empty promises and reassuring people that updates were going to happen. Gary was actually a lot more problematic for the scene then people might have realized. He was constantly stealing news, funneling clicks through his site to their actual source, attempting to convince devs into making close-source versions of their projects, making claims about community devs, and countless other issues. He was actually kind of a nuisance that people built up because he posted news for closed source products.


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## PowerBall253 (Nov 2, 2021)

Tatsuna said:


> As always, good and bad things happen from one single event.
> Xecuter deserved it and they knew this day was going to come sooner or later. I don't think they were stupid. Especially if you do these kind of things with Nintendo, which has always shown to be the harshier when it comes to the hacking scene among the big three of gaming.
> 
> At the same time, we've lost one of the founding fathers of the Switch hacking scene, as well as the ones who were always ready to take things to the next level.
> ...


Yeah, as much as what the guys did was illegal, I still don't want people from the scene going down.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

PowerBall253 said:


> Yeah, as much as what the guys did was illegal, I still don't want people from the scene going down.


So far, the reputable players in the scene are still around and active. TX didn't care about the scene. I'm saying this even though I have an SX Core installed in my system.


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## PowerBall253 (Nov 2, 2021)

Memoir said:


> So far, the reputable players in the scene are still around and active. TX didn't care about the scene. I'm saying this as I have an SX Core installed in my system.


Well, the creator of ReiNX already pulled out due to the arrests and the drama, iirc
And they were around since the 3DS days


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## Purple_Shyguy (Nov 2, 2021)

SXOS NEVER DIES


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## The Catboy (Nov 2, 2021)

PowerBall253 said:


> Well, the creator of ReiNX already pulled out due to the arrests and the drama, iirc
> And they were around since the 3DS days


If Rei claimed that, then I think they were looking for an excuse because ReiNX was pretty dead before the arrests. Maybe the arrests gave them a good enough reason to finally pull the plug through.


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## kcajjones (Nov 2, 2021)

pedro702 said:


> preety sure he hurted alot of software sales , with the switch having so much install base more than 90 millions consoles even if it was like 1% of hacked switchers that would be a damn huge money that was lost of software sales nintendo and 3rd party alike.


This is exactly the problem. Like I said, I'm not agreeing with the way sx os was made for piracy, but had it been the same cost and just homebrew, would you rather Nintendo (who clearly aren't financially hurt in any significant way by this) or TX have the money? 

Don't support large companies above small ones/individuals. This is exactly what the large companies want you to think, I mean look at Hollywood and the record companies. They've been saying for DECADES about how that music and movie piracy is killing their business and yet, here we are, they're still making record profits from music and film, because it was just greed. They want every damn last bit of money from you.

Nintendo is exactly the same and their actions in the Switch era especially show that they're way out of touch and definitely don't care about the player, only the money!


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## |<roni&g (Nov 2, 2021)

Morons calling him scum lol, fools. 
Wish he hadn't got caught and hope the next team can stay hidden.


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## xtrem3x (Nov 2, 2021)

If TX were still about they would probably have been working on a chip for the OLED model and we would all be looking forward to running homebrew on that... We should all consider that and hope somebody fills the void


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## HRudyPlayZ (Nov 2, 2021)

Ok so let's resume the situation :
- SX used stolen code, from Atmosphere AND Nintendo.  This is indeed copyright infringement of both SciresM and Nintendo. 
- They used that code for money, and broke the user rights to access the source code of their CFW. This is license infringement of Atmosphere's GPL. 
- They proceeded to add malware code that bricks the Switch of any user that tries to reverse their code. This is malicious programming and highly illegal AND immoral. 
- They promoted the use of SX for piracy in all of their marketing. This is promotion of piracy and illegal marketing. 

On the other hand:
- Gary shouldn't have been extradited to the US in the first place, especially if he moved to Canada. He is entitled to being judged according to his resident country laws and not the one Nintendo choses to use. He didn't technically commit the crimes in the US, and other countries, although they might have similar laws, aren't as stupid as the US, especially regarding protection circumvention. 
- SX didn't cause the damage cost they claim, by far. SX weren't the ones distributing the games and as such cannot be charged for the illegal use their users made of their products. Though they can still be charged for promoting it. At most, they can only ask for the cost of the cartridge code in term of damages. 
- SX did allow patched switches to get hacked, which is entirely moral and protected under repair rights, user rights and other laws against planned obsolescence. This can also fall as an archival technique. 
- Gary shouldn't be fined with such a high sentence. Maybe a few years of jail, but definitely not a 4 million dollars fine. 
- This is a very bad sign for user rights overall, and shows that even if the law isn't necessarily against SX, Nintendo, who has an unlimited amount of money, always have the final say. 

I consider both sides to be the culprit here. I guess it's time to pirate incoming Nintendo games, so they can really say they lost that amount of money, especially since they assume that all pirates would have bought their games, which most wouldn't.


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## Chelsea_Fantasy (Nov 2, 2021)

tpax said:


> Also don't get all the hate. TX were the first to bring mods and piracy to the Switch, and the only ones to release a working modchip. People should be thankful.


Dude, I personally will never be thankful for what he (they) did.
First: they stole code from homebrew developers
Second: they intentionally bricked their consumer consoles (not only on Switch, but also on 3DS)
And so on...
So, he deserves to be in jail!


----------



## deisuke1234 (Nov 2, 2021)

I think so far over the arguments people from the both sides are correct. However I think the root of the problems is  Nintendo themselves has caused this issues through greed. I mean look at the tragedy so called Nintendo 64 emulation


----------



## smf (Nov 2, 2021)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> - SX used stolen code, from Atmosphere AND Nintendo.  This is indeed copyright infringement of both SciresM and Nintendo.


Doesn't Atmosphere contain code indirectly stolen from Nintendo?


----------



## CTR640 (Nov 2, 2021)

What a moron! He chose to end up in prison instead of buying some GTX3060Ti's!


----------



## wiiando (Nov 2, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Scum? He sold mod chips and a custom firmware that we all use. This entire site is built around hacking, piracy, mod chips etc for decades.


Piracy isn't supported here, the sole purpose of SXOS and their devices SP was piracy, there is a difference, I agree though scum is a strong word, they were taking advantage of a situation, I'd imagine a lot would have done the same.


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Nov 2, 2021)

wiiando said:


> Piracy isn't supported here, the sole purpose of SXOS and their devices SP was piracy, there is a difference, I agree though scum is a strong word, they were taking advantage of a situation, I'd imagine a lot would have done the same.


It isn't supported here? Ok bro.

Also you could literally download and use SXOS free with just homebrew enabled and the .xci/nsp loading disabled.


----------



## linuxares (Nov 2, 2021)

deisuke1234 said:


> I think so far over the arguments people from the both sides are correct. However I think the root of the problems is  Nintendo themselves has caused this issues through greed. I mean look at the tragedy so called Nintendo 64 emulation


Then DON'T buy their products. It have nothing to do with greed if people pay or it


----------



## RednaxelaNnamtra (Nov 2, 2021)

KirovAir said:


> People who are celebrating this should really wake up. This is a big loss to device freedom and being able to do with your device what you want.
> This is an 'extreme' case with piracy in mind of course for TX, but TX themselves did not pirate all those games, the users did. It's like selling a knife and complaining people are stabbing with it. I understand the trail, I understand why Ninty is going after them but the jail time and fine is WAY out of proportion. They can only go after the copyright violation for the gamecard loading code, but not the actual lost sales imho. TX are money grabbing assholes who violate any sense of copyright. But 5 years for the fucking news guy and possible 20 for the others? Lolwat
> 
> This case can be used as an example to go after SciresM or Atmoshpere-like solutions in the future.


I mean there is a reason Atmosphere doens't allow piracy by itself, and why they actively distance themself from piracy. TX/Gateway on the other hand didn't really try anything of that kind.



smf said:


> Doesn't Atmosphere contain code indirectly stolen from Nintendo?


There is a difference between copy and pasting something with minimal changes, and reverse engineering and reimplementing something.
Im also pretty sure if you would compare atmospheres and nintendos source code, you would find many big differences, and even the resulting binaries are different in many ways.


----------



## subcon959 (Nov 2, 2021)

I liked Gary, he was always fun to chat with.

I like modchips too, I wish the new TX had stuck with hardware like the good old days. I doubt there would be much controversy if they hadn't bothered with SX OS.


----------



## pucky (Nov 2, 2021)

caki883 said:


> make a "Pucky OS" and make chips


dont you mean 'potato chips' ?


----------



## TheZander (Nov 2, 2021)

That's it I'm officially giving up hope that they're releasing an Xbox one solution. They made all the money they needed to buy the dodo birds or whatever. Now they're jailed? I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't half planned after the realization of their xbox failure. The switch was practically already hacked before their glitching tease even came out. If they had just hacked xbox like they should have none of this world have happened they only have themselves to blame.


----------



## 8BitWonder (Nov 2, 2021)

RednaxelaNnamtra said:


> Im also pretty sure if you would compare atmospheres and nintendos source code, you would find many big differences, and even the resulting binaries are different in many ways.


One of the fun ones being the memory savings when using atmosphere
https://github.com/Atmosphere-NX/Atmosphere/wiki/Memory-Comparisons


----------



## Viri (Nov 2, 2021)

This makes me fear for the next Nintendo console's hacking scene!


----------



## DinohScene (Nov 2, 2021)

Fecker got let off easy.
Boo!!!


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

Viri said:


> This makes me fear for the next Nintendo console's hacking scene!


Why? Because TX got hit with their just desserts?

Some of you are really reading way too much into this.


----------



## Lazyboss (Nov 2, 2021)

There are so many criminals in this world roaming free, and then they will catch a guy for modding a console.

This world is turning into shit.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2021)

Still have no sympathy for Nintendo's "losses"


----------



## flowlapache (Nov 2, 2021)

Viri said:


> This makes me fear for the next Nintendo console's hacking scene!


Don't worry! TX team never helped the scene, they weren't here to share their "work"...And often lazy waiting sciresM news..


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2021)

flowlapache said:


> Don't worry! TX team never helped the scene, they weren't here to share they "work"...And often lazy waiting sciresM news..



And nothing of value was lost


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

the_randomizer said:


> Still have no sympathy for Nintendo's "losses"


The number they threw up is just hilarious.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 2, 2021)

Memoir said:


> The number they threw up is just hilarious.


I feel even better about emulating N64 games on non-Nintendo systems, just to piss off fanboys and Nintendo


----------



## Armadillo (Nov 2, 2021)

flowlapache said:


> Don't worry! TX team never helped the scene, they weren't here to share their "work"...And often lazy waiting sciresM news..



Guess I missed the solution other than TX modchip for updated Mariko and Switch lite. Must be another solution as TX didn't help, any link to that?


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Nov 2, 2021)

Armadillo said:


> Guess I missed the solution other than TX modchip for updated Mariko and Switch lite. Must be another solution as TX didn't help, any link to that?


https://github.com/Atmosphere-NX/Atmosphere/releases

Don't matter how good your hardware is

Any major changes on new update by nin TX was waiting on M.S


----------



## Armadillo (Nov 2, 2021)

Donnie-Burger said:


> https://github.com/Atmosphere-NX/Atmosphere/releases
> 
> Don't matter how good your hardware is
> 
> Any major changes on new update by nin TX was waiting on M.S



Not in doubt, TX did rely on atmosphere for the software side.

Atmosphere alone is useless for Lites and updated Mariko's without TX hardware. Other poster said TX "never helped", so where's the non TX solution? If there's none, axe to grind or not. TX's hardware helped.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Nov 2, 2021)

Armadillo said:


> Not in doubt, TX did rely on atmosphere for the software side.
> 
> Atmosphere alone is useless for Lites and updated Mariko's without TX hardware. Other poster said TX "never helped", so where's the non TX solution? If there's none, axe to grind or not. TX's hardware helped.



Cant run anything past 11 without atmos so yeah def needed unless you wanna stay on 11.0. 
Lets not forget where they got the hardware hacks from as well.  Nothing was theirs. 
They only contributed for $$ and what they contributed was others work and they gave no credit.

Shit they weren't even the real TX LOL.


----------



## Sheimi (Nov 2, 2021)

linuxares said:


> We always got Wart


But in Mario's Dreams.

In a way this does harm your ability to tinker with your hardware you legitimately purchased if Nintendo wants to go this route.


----------



## PvD79 (Nov 2, 2021)

T-Minus how long until Mr. Bowser declares bankruptcy???


----------



## djnate27 (Nov 2, 2021)

Jiehfeng said:


> This will go down in history.


Wait a minute. Doesn't everything go down in history?

Oh well. Should have known Nintendo has never and will never let Bowser win.


----------



## Sheimi (Nov 2, 2021)

PvD79 said:


> T-Minus how long until Mr. Bowser declares bankruptcy???


It just depends if he can declare bankruptcy. They can say oh you cannot declare bankruptcy on this.


----------



## izy (Nov 2, 2021)

Donnie-Burger said:


> Cant run anything past 11 without atmos so yeah def needed unless you wanna stay on 11.0.
> Lets not forget where they got the hardware hacks from as well.  Nothing was theirs.
> They only contributed for $$ and what they contributed was others work and they gave no credit.
> 
> Shit they weren't even the real TX LOL.


i mean sure how about you design a chip, test it fabricate it

RnD is has its costs 
also tell me where they got their hardware hacks for the mariko units/lites and now the oled lul


----------



## Fred Molyneux (Nov 2, 2021)

CompSciOrBust said:


> That was completely unrelated to TX. Someone copied what HBG was doing and stuck it behind a paywall. There is absolutely zero evidence that TX was behind it. Sure Gary reported on it but Gary reported on lots of things, the Rebug Switch Me modchip for example, that doesn't make Gary a part of Team Rebug. For all we know the HWFly people were behind StargateNX


The fact is clearly Gary was just a journalist using TX to promote his site (and sell advertising). That is his only 'crime'. US justice - and the FBI in particular - is a joke. It is all about money. They killed Huawei without bringing a single proof. They accuse guys here and make them face 80 years in prison so they all plea guilty when they might be innocent because with a conviction rate of 95+%, fed court are only equal to african dictatorship. Not a single western democracy has such conviction rate, crazy sentencing. When Apple and Samsung sue each other for copyright infrigment, they get fine. When Huawei, TX or Assange or anyone not in some U.S. senator payroll does something, they face life in prison. Fuck FBI and fuck US justice system. All 3 accused are in countries where Nintendo has an office and with normal court, how come they were never tried or accused in their country? And I am pretty sure all 3 have absolutely nothing to do with SX chips and TX.
In fact when they were arrested, all sales went on normally, only a few months later when they really started to panic, did TX stopped because they saw the craziness of U.S. justice.
I know Max was the guy who founded Megaupload with Kim Dotcom, coincidence? Same here, no country had a problem with Megaupload, but U.S. did. Funny they had no problem with Youtube or any filesharing services made in USA. Sometimes i wonder which country between China and USA is the most corrupt. Glad the the European Union is still there to share human values.


----------



## fst312 (Nov 2, 2021)

Can’t he file bankruptcy or something to avoid paying that amount. I doubt anyone has that kind of cash on hand, unless he was also profiting from all these mod chip sells. It’s still wrong to me that someone that has nothing to do with creating sxos has to go to jail. I never bought the product but wasn’t he just basically advertising it, the way things get posted here when it comes to updates and software information. Maybe I don’t have all the info on this but this is going to probably hurt future stuff. On an unrelated note to this, is that gta case still active, the one that was ported to almost every system.


----------



## XDel (Nov 2, 2021)

So, he shared no software illegally, that I am aware of, and his crime is creating a piece of hardware that modifies a piece of hardware that the consumer, bought, paid for, and owns, so they can play Homebrew, and if they should choose, run back ups of the games they own, and if they wish to take it an illegal step, could also use to pirate. 

This is stupid.  The majority of people don't know how to do this, many of us are collectors and know we will get our money back out of our games, and I know for a fact that study after study has proven that piracy really isn't a threat to a century old, world wide, mega corporation. 

People have been mentally trained to behave as sheep and as property.


----------



## Fred Molyneux (Nov 2, 2021)

fst312 said:


> Can’t he file bankruptcy or something to avoid paying that amount. I doubt anyone has that kind of cash on hand, unless he was also profiting from all these mod chip sells. It’s still wrong to me that someone that has nothing to do with creating sxos has to go to jail. I never bought the product but wasn’t he just basically advertising it, the way things get posted here when it comes to updates and software information. Maybe I don’t have all the info on this but this is going to probably hurt future stuff. On an unrelated note to this, is that gta case still active, the one that was ported to almost every system.


And for this, I am pretty sure Gary doesn't give a damn about this fine. Ask anyone between 10 years in prison or 4.5 millions fine (that you don't pay because you don't have it) and see the answers. In my country you need to kill someone to spend 10 years in prison. Of course, we have 20 times less crime than mad USA but still...


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Nov 2, 2021)

squee666 said:


> i mean sure how about you design a chip, test it fabricate it
> 
> RnD is has its costs
> also tell me where they got their hardware hacks for the mariko units/lites and now the oled lul


Damn even you dont know, id figured you did with all that TX dick riding you do lul

Even the old TX built their shit on others work.


----------



## Cyberevan (Nov 2, 2021)

Just curious, is he and GaryOPA the same person?


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Nov 2, 2021)

Cyberevan said:


> Just curious, is he and GaryOPA the same person?


Yeah thats Bowser.  In the 360 days he was Toxic AF.


----------



## CoolMe (Nov 2, 2021)

Seems he f*cked it up real bad, and Nintendo is taking the opportunity to make an example out of him, for any Switch hackers in the future.. 4.5 $mil is a lot of dough, makes you think how much he profited..


----------



## HellGhast (Nov 2, 2021)

osaka35 said:


> pleading guilty means precedence wasn't set, right?


Precedence was set, but could depend on appeals coz higher/ superior courts can either affirm or even reverse decision of lower courts.

Remember the Supreme Court(or whatever court is superior in yo country) is the highest court of record(precedence)


----------



## pedro702 (Nov 2, 2021)

CoolMe said:


> Seems he f*cked it up real bad, and Nintendo is taking the opportunity to make an example out of him, for any Switch hackers in the future.. 4.5 $mil is a lot of dough, makes you think how much he profited..


its not like he is gonna pay it lol, you can say you take the fine and then say you dont have any money, if he doesnt have any assets in its name they cant take anything from in, so the pawn a percentage of his paycheck until the debt is paid(if he has a legit paycheck in the usa that is) so he doesnt loose anything per say, what happens is people that get this pawn on paycheck either do work without papers therefore they dont get pawn or just chnage country and work on another country and the government cant pawn its paycheck from another country.


----------



## GbaNober (Nov 2, 2021)

Ottoclav said:


> Are we okay with this? Am I supposed to hate this guy, or think he is a Martyr? I'm so confused.


for the damages he caused? Yes


----------



## Robika (Nov 2, 2021)

regnad said:


> So long, Ga(r)y Bowser!


Gay should not be used as an insult.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

Robika said:


> Gay should not be used as an insult.


It's not. It's a reference to the Bowser throw in SM64.


----------



## CoolMe (Nov 2, 2021)

pedro702 said:


> its not like he is gonna pay it lol, you can say you take the fine and then say you dont have any money, if he doesnt have any assets in its name they cant take anything from in, so the pawn a percentage of his paycheck until the debt is paid(if he has a legit paycheck in the usa that is) so he doesnt loose anything per say, what happens is people that get this pawn on paycheck either do work without papers therefore they dont get pawn or just chnage country and work on another country and the government cant pawn its paycheck from another country.


I don't think the court would accept his deal if he was broke, they must've looked for any assets he has under his name beforehand, and they know he has a sizeable amount other they wouldn't've accepted the deal. If he doesn't pay they'll seize his properties, and watching (if not blocking) any major bank transactions from now on. Either he has 4.5$mil or equivalent to it in assets is up the Judge to decide.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Nov 2, 2021)

BarryTheTwerker said:


> I get it, Nintendo showed all of you more love during your childhood than your parents did, still celebrating this is absolutely soulless.


This is true.  4.5 mil + 5 years in prison is a win win for nin.  No matter who it might be this is excessive.


----------



## TheZander (Nov 2, 2021)

does agreeing to pay that mean anything? cant he just not be able to pay it?


----------



## BarryTheTwerker (Nov 2, 2021)

Donnie-Burger said:


> This is true.  4.5 mil + 5 years in prison is a win win for nin.  No matter who it might be this is excessive.


He should sue for damages, they sullied his family name for three decades by associating it with a tyrannical reptile.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Nov 2, 2021)

TheZander said:


> does agreeing to pay that mean anything? cant he just not be able to pay it?


Just like someone had said earlier - Think of it like child support.


----------



## shanefromoz (Nov 2, 2021)

I wish Gary the best of luck. He and Team Executer have done an massive amount for the Switch scene


----------



## BarryTheTwerker (Nov 2, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You're supposed to think for yourself. This is why SX has so much hate in the first place. Bandwagon thinking. Sjw zombies don't even know a damn thing. Typical.


Humans are hardwired to have religious and ethnic identity.
If you remove those and make actual religion and nationalism illegal they will gravitate to the next big thing (toys, sports, hobbies)

To them seeing someone pirate videogames is the same as a jewish person seeing his kin thrown in the gas chambers.
To them it is life or death to see Nintendo succeed.


----------



## TheZander (Nov 2, 2021)

BarryTheTwerker said:


> Humans are hardwired to have religious and ethnic identity.
> If you remove those and make actual religion and nationalism illegal they will gravitate to the next big thing (toys, sports, hobbies)
> 
> To them seeing someone pirate videogames is the same as a jewish person seeing his kin thrown in the gas chambers.
> To them it is life or death to see Nintendo succeed.


You're getting a little nutty. Hardcore pirates dislike them aswell. No one cares about Nintendo's bottom dollar.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 2, 2021)

The entitlement is starting to come through pretty heavily over these last couple of pages.


----------



## mima_93 (Nov 2, 2021)

I seem to have read that it will help to find the other sx os members, or did I read it wrong?


----------



## CompSciOrBust (Nov 2, 2021)

Fred Molyneux said:


> The fact is clearly Gary was just a journalist using TX to promote his site (and sell advertising). That is his only 'crime'. US justice - and the FBI in particular - is a joke. It is all about money. They killed Huawei without bringing a single proof. They accuse guys here and make them face 80 years in prison so they all plea guilty when they might be innocent because with a conviction rate of 95+%, fed court are only equal to african dictatorship. Not a single western democracy has such conviction rate, crazy sentencing. When Apple and Samsung sue each other for copyright infrigment, they get fine. When Huawei, TX or Assange or anyone not in some U.S. senator payroll does something, they face life in prison. Fuck FBI and fuck US justice system. All 3 accused are in countries where Nintendo has an office and with normal court, how come they were never tried or accused in their country? And I am pretty sure all 3 have absolutely nothing to do with SX chips and TX.
> In fact when they were arrested, all sales went on normally, only a few months later when they really started to panic, did TX stopped because they saw the craziness of U.S. justice.
> I know Max was the guy who founded Megaupload with Kim Dotcom, coincidence? Same here, no country had a problem with Megaupload, but U.S. did. Funny they had no problem with Youtube or any filesharing services made in USA. Sometimes i wonder which country between China and USA is the most corrupt. Glad the the European Union is still there to share human values.


I completely agree, in fact I made a thread about it before this one was created. It's a pointless argument though. People are always going to be Pro US and anti-TX even when the former is using their money to try to screw the latter.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/welcome-to-america.602282/#post-9645200


----------



## nachuz (Nov 2, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Scum? He sold mod chips and a custom firmware that we all use. This entire site is built around hacking, piracy, mod chips etc for decades.


"He sold" there's the problem
I'm happy that scum is now where he deserves to be


----------



## BarryTheTwerker (Nov 2, 2021)

He should've fled to the Dominican while leaving a note behind saying:  "sorry, but your princess is another castle"


----------



## CompSciOrBust (Nov 2, 2021)

BarryTheTwerker said:


> Face it you Nintendo simps are genuinely mentally ill and should go back to ResetEra. Nintendo targets children on purpoose, so that you develop a cult like mentality about being a Nintendo fan.
> As "adults" you weirdos don't think, you let big N do the thinking for you. All because you played a bunch of overrated side scrollers in your youth and didn't know what a good videogame is.
> 
> It "makes sense" for someone investing his whole life into a brand to seethe when your product can be remplaced and be done better by another.


Ah shit I just realized this is exactly what TX did to me.



BarryTheTwerker said:


> He should've fled to the Dominican while leaving a note behind saying:  "sorry, but your princess is another castle"


He was (ILLEGALLY) extradited from the Dominican so they'd ship him right back.


----------



## izy (Nov 2, 2021)

nachuz said:


> "He sold" there's the problem
> I'm happy that scum is now where he deserves to be


well yeah if you make something no one else makes and you spent time and money making it for and it also costs to manufacture it

you sell it preferably at a profit

or you want people to sell you mod chips no one else makes at manufacturing cost or for free

thats very self-entitled of you


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Nov 2, 2021)

nachuz said:


> "He sold" there's the problem
> I'm happy that scum is now where he deserves to be


and you' bought', you wasn't saying that when you bought an SX pro


----------



## pedro702 (Nov 2, 2021)

CoolMe said:


> I don't think the court would accept his deal if he was broke, they must've looked for any assets he has under his name beforehand, and they know he has a sizeable amount other they wouldn't've accepted the deal. If he doesn't pay they'll seize his properties, and watching (if not blocking) any major bank transactions from now on. Either he has 4.5$mil or equivalent to it in assets is up the Judge to decide.


that is not how it works, multiple cases atleast where i live people decided to pay instead of jail time, and now they dont have the money and they dont pay, its a loop in the system, you pay what you have and get the rest when you can if ever, there are people owing millions and never pay them, the only penalty really is they cant have any propertys in their name or use credit cards or get another credit from any bank, thats basicaly it, every rich people that was considered guilty into paying millions does this and it always ends up the same, just look for many cases, the court cant just say if you dont have money you go to jail, if there is an option you pay for the rest of your life. heck there is even a law here that your paycheck can only be pawn until it reaches minimum wage so if you own money and you make minimum wage you dont pay a single thing lol, like i said you only loose the ability to have property and be able to do credits forever but no jail or anything.


----------



## MasterJ360 (Nov 2, 2021)

Just wow! and if those 30TB HDD have any kind of questionable porn.... RIP Gary


----------



## nachuz (Nov 2, 2021)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> and you' bought', you wasn't saying that when you bought an SX pro


What are you talking about, I never bought an SX pro lol


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (Nov 2, 2021)

nachuz said:


> What are you talking about, I never bought an SX pro lol


 you only have to look at your old posts

https://gbatemp.net/threads/warning...-from-switchsx-com.508406/page-4#post-8082086


----------



## Nincompoopdo (Nov 2, 2021)

I guess he will be selling some bitcoin.


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Nov 2, 2021)

tpax said:


> Why would he buy a place that's crowded by mentally ill individuals?
> 
> Also don't get all the hate. TX were the first to bring mods and piracy to the Switch, and the only ones to release a working modchip. People should be thankful.


Because software pirates are a lot like the free software crowd. They want everything to be gratis instead of libre not realizing that it's money that largely makes development of this stuff possible. So when someone charges for something that should be "free" they throw a tantrum. Not the best analogy since charging for open source software is legal with just about every notable license, but it's the best approximation I can give.


Memoir said:


> Riiiiight... What a range this is...


That's what happens when you use completely bogus "lost sales" to try to tell people how bad piracy is. For argument's sake, let's say 100,0000 people downloaded 10 games. They'd be using $60/game despite the fact that either the people weren't going to buy them at the full price in the first place, or by the time they've pirated them most games have dropped quite a bit in price. So more like $30 million if that, assuming they are actually losing significant sales from piracy, which they're not.


----------



## PowerBall253 (Nov 2, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Because software pirates are a lot like the free software crowd. They want everything to be gratis instead of libre not realizing that it's money that largely makes development of this stuff possible. So when someone charges for something that should be "free" they throw a tantrum. Not the best analogy since charging for open source software is legal with just about every notable license, but it's the best approximation I can give.


Isn't the free software crowd purely about making software "libre"?


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Nov 2, 2021)

PowerBall253 said:


> Isn't the free software crowd purely about making software "libre"?


Yes and no. Developers are, but a ton of users hate when you have to pay or donate for a ready to use build, pay for support, or a premium build. You see this a lot on Reddit when other software or hardware using open source software as a base is being used for commercial purposes especially.


PowerBall253 said:


> Oh, that makes sense. I am a developer and pro free software and for a second I thought I was part of the wrong group, lol


Knowledgable users are about it being libre as well, but there are a ton of people who don't actually get what the Creative Commons, GPLv3, and MIT licenses are and think free and open source means gratis only with no professional application.


----------



## PowerBall253 (Nov 2, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Yes and no. Developers are, but a ton of users hate when you have to pay or donate for a ready to use build, pay for support, or a premium build.


Oh, that makes sense. I am a developer and pro free software and for a second I thought I was part of the wrong group, lol


----------



## nachuz (Nov 2, 2021)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> you only have to look at your old posts
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/warning...-from-switchsx-com.508406/page-4#post-8082086


I was talking about the SX OS and until this day I regret the decision of buying that
I never bought an SX Pro tho, which is what you are talking about


----------



## CoolMe (Nov 2, 2021)

pedro702 said:


> multiple cases atleast where i live people decided to pay instead of jail time


I don't know if you're talking about the US justice system or not.. but since this is happening/ he's being sued on US soil, he has to pay the agreed amount either with money or with his assets. If he doesn't meet the agreed amount, he has to pay it with jail time and the amount of time (he should spend in jail) is decided by the jury/court. 


pedro702 said:


> the court cant just say if you dont have money you go to jail, if there is an option you pay for the rest of your life.


That's not how it works, at least not here in the US, you can't just "bail" out of jail, because state laws were broken. Even if Nintendo withdraws he still could face jail time, as stated in the article "Faced with 11 felony counts, Bowser has just pleaded guilty to two of them: trafficking in circumvention devices and conspiracy to circumvent technological measures."
Now i'm not talking about some millionaire, that would hire expensive lawyers to find/exploit loop holes, and even then it depends, but that's a separate (irrelevant) matter altogether..


----------



## Detroitguy22 (Nov 2, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It's all cancel culture. Social or software. Jumping on the bandwagon and canceling someone or something because its the thing to do. SXOS didn't steal YOUR code.  How is it not the exact same thing?
> 
> Software Justice Wankers.


Lmao here he is, raging about dead cfw again, you were doing so well


----------



## pustal (Nov 2, 2021)

Chary said:


> A crime is a crime. SX OS never really shied away from being blatantly able to use "backups", and most of the homebrew was specifically for backups.



Being able to use backups is not a crime, if people use it for copyright violation then the fault is on them. This is a very bad precedent for the community, as much as I dislike the guy.

The irony in all of this however is that at least back in the day of Gateway he was accused by scene devs of stealing code for profit. He's paying for what he shouldn't rather for what he should.



smf said:


> Doesn't Atmosphere contain code indirectly stolen from Nintendo?



How do you indirectly steal code and what would Atmosphere have?


----------



## ChiefReginod (Nov 3, 2021)

I don't know much about Team Xecuter or this Bowser guy, but taking down anything homebrew-related in such brutal fashion doesn't bode well for GBAtemp, the homebrew scene in general or even the emulation scene.


----------



## TheZander (Nov 3, 2021)

BarryTheTwerker said:


> Face it you Nintendo simps are genuinely mentally ill and should go back to ResetEra. Nintendo targets children on purpoose, so that you develop a cult like mentality about being a Nintendo fan.
> As "adults" you weirdos don't think, you let big N do the thinking for you. All because you played a bunch of overrated side scrollers in your youth and didn't know what a good videogame is.
> 
> It "makes sense" for someone investing his whole life into a brand to seethe when your product can be remplaced and be done better by another.


That's a ridiculous thing to suggest I face.  Also Im running into trouble trying to suss out your position. How familiar with everything are you? I mean if you just got into the scene when you became aware of the sxos and you have loyalty to the team whatever. 


Nintendo is the greatest company ever. The SXOS was only successful because of Nintendo.


----------



## raxadian (Nov 3, 2021)

Ottoclav said:


> Are we okay with this? Am I supposed to hate this guy, or think he is a Martyr? I'm so confused.



He made money out of hacking and moding the Nintendo Switch.  He also made the mistake of selling the mod chip.  

I do not think he is Hero, same reason anyone selling pirated copies of games is not a Hero.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 3, 2021)

Piracy will end up profiting Nintendo, but are those profits going to be shared with the devs?


----------



## linuxares (Nov 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Piracy ended up paying Nintendo, but did those profits go to the devs?


Well Nintendo are devs as well so I guess?


----------



## tabzer (Nov 3, 2021)

linuxares said:


> Well Nintendo are devs as well so I guess?


Nintendo has devs.  I don't know how it translates to bonuses and pay raises.  Also thinking about the third party titles that helped drive the profit Nintendo is reaping from the lawsuit.


----------



## raxadian (Nov 3, 2021)

ChiefReginod said:


> I don't know much about Team Xecuter or this Bowser guy, but taking down anything homebrew-related in such brutal fashion doesn't bode well for GBAtemp, the homebrew scene in general or even the emulation scene.



The two PC emulators for the Switch are doing great.  So don't worry Switch emulation will keep happening and get better, there is also clone chips you can get from China and eventually someone will jailbreak the Switch firmware.  They have done so for the PS4 more that once after all.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

Detroitguy22 said:


> Lmao here he is, raging about dead cfw again, you were doing so well



It's not about a CFW. don't care what you think. You're an ingreat troll sheep. I don't want your approval. Your intrarectalcrainialitis is acting up again.  You "people" are the worst. Hypocritical baby brained bandwagon riding child.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

BarryTheTwerker said:


> Humans are hardwired to have religious and ethnic identity.
> If you remove those and make actual religion and nationalism illegal they will gravitate to the next big thing (toys, sports, hobbies)
> 
> To them seeing someone pirate videogames is the same as a jewish person seeing his kin thrown in the gas chambers.
> To them it is life or death to see Nintendo succeed.



But these "humans" are all pirates complaining about pirated pirate software. Hypocritical sheep.


----------



## Detroitguy22 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dude you've been doing this for months, you're not going to "win" or whatever you're trying to do in these defensive rants you go on, what are you even trying to achieve? You aren't going to convert the "sheep", put down the bong and your dead cfw lmao


----------



## Augusto101 (Nov 3, 2021)

someone must always sacrifice for the community that is appreciated but they simply abused their luck/actions whatever you call it, you get what you deserve even so, they will be remembered in both good and bad way ... long live to the community!!!


----------



## weatMod (Nov 3, 2021)

smf said:


> Sure, there are a lot of truly innocent people who plead guilty because they know the court will convict them and a plea deal is their only option.
> 
> But Gary was actually guilty of the actions he was accused of, I don't think there was any doubt about that.
> 
> The DMCA isn't new, whether it's legal to sell circumvention devices for consoles has been repeatedly discussed in court. I'm not sure another case will change how the courts have viewed it in the past.


the DMCA is fraudulent   law bought by a bunch hollyweird pedophiles
if you actually pay for media (music, movies, etc.) you are supporting pedophilia , terrorism and the  removal of your own freedoms


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

Detroitguy22 said:


> Dude you've been doing this for months, you're not going to "win" or whatever you're trying to do in these defensive rants you go on, what are you even trying to achieve? You aren't going to convert the "sheep", put down the bong and your dead cfw lmao



Doing what? Using my Switch with all the bells and whistles? Yes I have. All you do is antagonize. Rants? I guess logic and fact  seems intense for your tiny feeble mind. Must suck to be you. Go back to you bridge troll. You owe a debt of gratitude to TX as does the rest of the scene. Selfish ingrate. Show some respect and save whatever dignity you have left, little boy. I don't want to convert anyone. Pay attention Son. You are mook.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

You could make a case for the SX users to be a sort of cult.. Wonder when the documentary will release?


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Nov 3, 2021)

digipimp75 said:


> i'm sure Nintendo will use that money to improve their shitty online service.... right?


if you say the word "internet" at nintendo offices they will look at you in utter fear and confusion


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

Memoir said:


> You could make a case for the SX users to be a sort of cult.. Wonder when the documentary will release?



SXOS user aren't constantly trying to convert anyone. That's Atmosphere users. The true cult. I say use both. Enjoy your device to the fullest. I have no interest in recruiting you. You're all mook.


----------



## PowerBall253 (Nov 3, 2021)

Nothing better than users from two different products (that do basically the same) calling each other a cult. Kinda reminds me of some country's politics...


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

PowerBall253 said:


> Nothing better than users from two different products (that do basically the same) calling each other a cult. Kinda reminds me of some country's politics...



It's no contest. They just don't know what the word cult means. Small minds. Same with the politics. It's just an idiocracy thing.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

PowerBall253 said:


> Nothing better than users from two different products (that do basically the same) calling each other a cult. Kinda reminds me of some country's politics...


Well, yeah. Modern day anything usually involves at least two parties pointing fingers at each other while both looking stupid.


----------



## pofehof (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> SXOS user aren't constantly trying to convert anyone. That's Atmosphere users. The true cult. I say use both. Enjoy your device to the fullest. I have no interest in recruiting you. You're all mook.



Except you are the guy who has been arguing in defense of SX OS for over 12 hours spamming this topic. You really need to give it a rest.

Also, when SXOS first came out, it was strictly for piracy (since there wasn't much homebrew available, most users couldn't even create their own backups), so you can't say that SX OS was mainly for homebrew.


----------



## Detroitguy22 (Nov 3, 2021)

We're all just mook sheep trolls


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

It's not the Highlander. There can be more than one. You CAN use both. It's ridiculous to say otherwise.  I'm not spamming anything. All the trolls turn out in these threads. You should respect what TX has done for the scene. Who cares if its for piracy.  You are a pirate.


----------



## pofehof (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You should respect what TX has done for the scene.



Except you cannot deny that they were strictly piracy for users at first due to a lack of publicly available homebrew.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

pofehof said:


> Except you cannot deny that they were strictly piracy for users at first due to a lack of publicly available homebrew.


You are a pirate. Who cares? And yes. It was first.  First for Marikos too.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It's not the Highlander. There can be more than one. You CAN use both. It's ridiculous to say otherwise.  I'm not spamming anything. All the trolls turn out in these threads. You should respect what TX has done for the scene.


I respect they gave me a hardware option when there was none available. I respect the bootloader which, at the time, was leagues better than Hekate in terms of usability. That doesn't change the fact that they're only in hot water because they couldn't keep it straight. They didn't ever have to advertise piracy. Yet... They did... They didn't ever have to steal code and pass it off as their own.. They did.. You argue morals and call people hypocrites.. Here's the key difference, though.. The pirates aren't claiming their collection as their own. Not the smart ones, anyway.

No amount of your high horse, holier than thou nonsense will change that fact. They screwed up. Big time.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

Detroitguy22 said:


> We're all just mook sheep trolls


At least we have warm coats.


----------



## pofehof (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> You are a pirate. Who cares? And yes. It was first.  First for Marikos too.



Why do you think I am a pirate? And no one cares if it was first, the issue with SX OS is piracy was always their selling point.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

pofehof said:


> Why do you think I am a pirate? And no one cares if it was first, the issue with SX OS is piracy was always their selling point.


Exactly. This isn't a "piracy is bad" thing. It's they were practically bragging about opening the gates to pirated content.


----------



## Zajumino (Nov 3, 2021)

Ericzander said:


> By pleading guilty instead of being found guilty or not guilty at trial, the court doesn't have to articulate its reasoning behind it's ruling. So in that way precedence wasn't set because we don't know how the court will rule.
> 
> Whether the precedence would have been binding or persuasive in the first place is a different story and, at this point, hypothetical. Unless Bowser appeals this ruling within the appropriate timeframe and renters his plea of not guilty.


Hypothetically speaking, I doubt precedence would have been significantly impacted, given the way they marketed their products.




MasterJ360 said:


> Just wow! and if those 30TB HDD have any kind of questionable porn.... RIP Gary


I don't know about that, but if there was any "bad stuff" on there, we probably would have heard of it by now.




mikefor20 said:


> Doing what? Using my Switch with all the bells and whistles? Yes I have. All you do is antagonize. Rants? I guess logic and fact  seems intense for your tiny feeble mind. Must suck to be you. Go back to you bridge troll. You owe a debt of gratitude to TX as does the rest of the scene. Selfish ingrate. Show some respect and save whatever dignity you have left, little boy. I don't want to convert anyone. Pay attention Son. You are mook.


Pardon me saying so, but the language you use makes you seem rather unintelligent. Please be polite.

Also, can you point out to me where the facts and logic are in anything you said in this thread? I am having a difficult time finding them.


----------



## madafaka (Nov 3, 2021)

HaHAHAHa! Take that G.Bowser, next stop more prison years with your SX Core and all their shit products. I was one of the unlucky basterds who bricked his 3DS thanks to that piece of crap 3DS Gateway card and its fucked brick code. Karma karma karma kar 4.5 million


----------



## SaltyDog (Nov 3, 2021)

I've always been perplexed when this happens. Nintendo claims that they've been harmed between 65-150 million, but are made whole by a 4.5 mil restitution. How are they made whole if it's just a fraction of lost sales then? Every year it seems that these companies make such broad claims of piracy damages but fail to provide proof.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

SaltyDog said:


> I've always been perplexed when this happens. Nintendo claims that they've been harmed between 65-150 million, but are made whole by a 4.5 mil restitution. How are they made whole if it's just a fraction of lost sales then? Every year it seems that these companies make such broad claims of piracy damages but fail to provide proof.



Because they can't possible know how many games you were going to buy. They can just claim averages. That's like trying to predict how many movies you will see or how far you will drive. Averages averages averages. In the court of law when discussing damages they quote the big number. When talking losses to their shareholders they quote the small number. Whatever suits their narrative and their purposes at the time


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

Zajumino said:


> Hypothetically speaking, I doubt precedence would have been significantly impacted, given the way they marketed their products.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fact. SX was first to have a fully functional CFW. 
Fact: SX is still the only real solution to mod a Mariko.(sans their clones) 
Fact: Most of you here are pirates. Most of the rest are liars. 
Fact: the majority of the hate is just people following the leader and jumping on the bandwagon. 
Fact: We all TX a debt of gratitude.
Fact: Atmosphere users are the "cult members." They try to convert people and make them use only one CFW. Not SX users
Fact: you can use both
Fact: USB loading is awesome.
Fact: SX does what Atmos don't 
Fact: SJW/cancel culture is what we're dealing with.
Fact: Being glad someone went to jail when you all benefitted is a shitty thing to do
Fact: Most of the people here are trolls and don't deserve to be spoken to politely. No matter what the rules or you say.

The logic: SX hate is unwarranted and lame. SXOS is still the only USB loading,hack the unhackable solution. Anyone saying otherwise is an ingrate and probably has no clue. Just following around the rest of the brain they share.

Can you understand this time?


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

madafaka said:


> HaHAHAHa! Take that G.Bowser, next stop more prison years with your SX Core and all their shit products. I was one of the unlucky basterds who bricked his 3DS thanks to that piece of crap 3DS Gateway card and its fucked brick code. Karma karma karma kar 4.5 million



How did you brick. Must be USER error
Gateway worked great. It was first too. 
Didn't you make a backup?


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

pofehof said:


> Why do you think I am a pirate? And no one cares if it was first, the issue with SX OS is piracy was always their selling point.



You are most likely a pirate.  And it wasn't piracy that people complained about. It's that they stole atmosphere code and sold it. 

Piracy is why they sold millions.


----------



## mima_93 (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Fact. SX was first to have a fully functional CFW.
> Fact: SX is still the only real solution to mod a Mariko.(sans their clones)
> Fact: Most of you here are pirates. Most of the rest are liars.
> Fact: the majority of the hate is just people following the leader and jumping on the bandwagon.
> ...


yes! you forgot 4 more facts
fact: sx was the first cfw whose stealth mode failed and caused bans.
fact: sx was the first cfw which copied atmo wrong and caused briks at the time of update the firware
fact: sx was the first cfw that used betas to justify any bug or problem  that the user might have had
fact: sx os were the first to go to jail


----------



## RednaxelaNnamtra (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Fact. SX was first to have a fully functional CFW.
> Fact: SX is still the only real solution to mod a Mariko.(sans their clones)
> Fact: Most of you here are pirates. Most of the rest are liars.
> Fact: the majority of the hate is just people following the leader and jumping on the bandwagon.
> ...


Atmosphere had no releases at that point, but was actually usable if you compiled it. But like sxos, both werent really save to use at release. So no, I'm not really giving them that. The only thing they might have done, would be to be more user friendly for rom usage for some time and allow realtively save backup usage while being online until 9.x dropped.
Yeah, I give them that they created a nice modchip, and its the only situation I would recomend their hardware.
I didn't pirate in the switch time, since I had no reason to, I had enough money to buy what I need and wanted to just have quality of life improvements like the more stable framerates, streaming and usage of valid backups to not need to swap the cardrige. When the last one wasn't possible anymore, and tx didn't gave a fuck about it, I completelly stopped using their software.
I think there are many vallid reasons to not like sx, since they did many things that where problematic, and never really did anything to make up for them.
Only maybe for the modchips, not much more in my opinnion.
Many times there is a reason for the suggestion, some of them are, that sxos has less safety measures build in, has better homebrew support and for some time now is still getting updates, while sx isn't, which results in problems later on for people who don't really know what they are doing.
you can, but switching between them can be annoying, and the difference usb loading does, compared to the greater work needed to get newer games running, or to fix accidental updates is not really woth it for many in the end.
To be fair, I never used it, so no Idea, but I needed the loading as confort feature, so I had every dump on my sd card anyway.
not that much anymore, only really usb/xci loading, while being eol.
Or people that look a bit more into the future, since holding on to something that getting more out of date from day to day can lead to more problems. Also the conscience might be part of it to for some, because while pirating something you wouln't have bought anyway doesn't cost the game developer anything, making money on other peoples free work, without even giving credit it really bad.
I mean they know the risks beforehand and sx was also kinda promoting piracy, instead of trying to fully stick to the homebrew and own backups narative, so they did it to themself, even if the copyright law is broken to some degree.
Treat other like you want to be treatet, if you think they are trolls, either ignore them, or keep treating them like normal human beings, if you need to reakt to them.


----------



## Argonitious (Nov 3, 2021)

This was bound to happen eventually. If you create and sell a device that is mostly designed for piracy, you're basically doomed from the start. It is disappointing that this may be the end of newer-gen Switch hacking. At least from what I understand, their modchip was the only way to hack newer Switch consoles. While I don't condone piracy, not being able to run homebrew is a huge loss.

I have always believed that a computing device is only yours if you can freely run custom software. If you can only run official software and nothing else, it is not truly your device. I would have stopped buying Nintendo consoles long ago for this reason, but I like a lot of the Nintendo-exclusive game franchises.


----------



## felmapiq (Nov 3, 2021)

thank you Garry Browser


----------



## fluggy2003 (Nov 3, 2021)

I love SX OS and I'm not bothered about switching to Atmo.  USB loading is its best feature.  I've only found half a dozen new games that don't actually work with SXOS so far, despite claims that new games only work on Switch fw12 and 13.  A certain video game company's time would be better served in protecting its own property by not releasing consoles with chipsets that have known, unpatchable vulneralities. ALL new Nintendo published games (Dread/Mario Party etc) seem to still work on SXOS for some baffling reason while a few 3rd party games don't.  I think in filing this law suit against the TX team, all they've succeeded in doing is a, made SXOS adopters switch to Atmo or b..  Even worse, made them switch to readily available PC Switch emulation.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

fluggy2003 said:


> I love SX OS and I'm not bothered about switching to Atmo.  USB loading is its best feature.  I've only found half a dozen new games that don't actually work with SXOS so far, despite claims that new games only work on Switch fw12 and 13.  A certain video game company's time would be better served in protecting its own property by not releasing consoles with chipsets that have known, unpatchable vulneralities. ALL new Nintendo published games (Dread/Mario Party etc) seem to still work on SXOS for some baffling reason while a few 3rd party games don't.  I think in filing this law suit against the TX team, all they've succeeded in doing is a, made SXOS adopters switch to Atmo or b..  Even worse, made them switch to readily available PC Switch emulation.


Why switch? Use both!


----------



## mspy (Nov 3, 2021)

Most of the hate TX gets is due to the fact that their products are not free and since the target audience of said products are mostly pirates and because pirates don't like to pay for anything, they think TX is extorting them.

Pirates really think they are entitled to have everything for free and can't stand to see a pirate operation making money on their account.

The thing is that without the money incentive we probably would have way less people involved in the hacking scene and consequently less products would be hacked or would simple take more time to be.
Making money also allows for buying hardware and pay up people with the skills to hack a product, that's the main reason why TX was the first and so far only one (excluding clones) who came up with the modchip solution for v2.

Bottom line is if TX was 100% free no one would be hating on them.


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> Why switch? Use both!


Why keep a dead CFW when switching to an active one makes more sense? Plus, they are just switching to the base CFW used by SXOS


----------



## DaniPoo (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> How did you brick. Must be USER error
> Gateway worked great. It was first too.
> Didn't you make a backup?


But they are known to have been putting brick code in their software that bricks your console if you try to run it without their hardware I believe. If I remember correctly... That is just a very shitty move. 

Imagine if Nintendo did not block your account but instead bricked your console on purpose if they identified that you were running custom firmware...  That would be the the same thing pretty much


----------



## GamerzHell9137 (Nov 3, 2021)

ChibiMofo said:


> He's facing up to 5 years on the plea deal and his co-conspirators are facing up to 20. Always good to see scum brought to justice. Enjoy your time in prison, Gary!


My dude over here has no chill. Who gives a fuck about a multi billion company vs some dude who's hacking Switches?
Damn, chill the fuck down and connect to reality. Acting like he killed someone or something smh.


----------



## codezer0 (Nov 3, 2021)

Meanwhile I still can't get even homebrew on my Mariko switch, let alone a true jailbreak. Until the day that changes, haters can shut it.


----------



## DinohScene (Nov 3, 2021)

Enough of the bickering now.
Next person who continues gets a time out.


----------



## 64bitmodels (Nov 3, 2021)

I love how you dudes are saying "good riddance" on a site that's literally all about modchips and piracy. As far as i'm concerned this is just holding the switch back from getting a true softmod. are you with nintendo or against them???


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

Just saw that dhino.


----------



## 64bitmodels (Nov 3, 2021)

BarryTheTwerker said:


> Face it you Nintendo simps are genuinely mentally ill and should go back to ResetEra. Nintendo targets children on purpoose, so that you develop a cult like mentality about being a Nintendo fan.
> As "adults" you weirdos don't think, you let big N do the thinking for you. All because you played a bunch of overrated side scrollers in your youth and didn't know what a good videogame is.
> 
> It "makes sense" for someone investing his whole life into a brand to seethe when your product can be remplaced and be done better by another.


finally, someone who understands how i feel about 99% of the nintendo fanboys on this site.


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 3, 2021)

64bitmodels said:


> I love how you dudes are saying "good riddance" on a site that's literally all about modchips and piracy. As far as i'm concerned this is just holding the switch back from getting a true softmod. are you with nintendo or against them???


Gary really didn't do much for the scene outside of posting announcements for updates, to not repeat a previous post


The Catboy said:


> Gary was just marketing and nothing else to the scene. He spent much of his time making empty promises and reassuring people that updates were going to happen. Gary was actually a lot more problematic for the scene then people might have realized. He was constantly stealing news, funneling clicks through his site to their actual source, attempting to convince devs into making close-source versions of their projects, making claims about community devs, and countless other issues. He was actually kind of a nuisance that people built up because he posted news for closed source products.


That being said, I am pro-community mods and against shady teams selling closed-source products. SXOS would have been more helpful for the community if their work was documented and available to the community. They would have been helpful if they did something like the AK Team and made their software and SDK publically available and simply provided the hardware for exploit purposes. The main reason we are setback is that they kept everything closed off from the public and thus didn't future-proof their product.


----------



## dude1 (Nov 3, 2021)

ChibiMofo said:


> He's facing up to 5 years on the plea deal and his co-conspirators are facing up to 20. Always good to see scum brought to justice. Enjoy your time in prison, Gary!


no scum have been brought to justice here, the scum are Nintendo and it's lawyers lets be real whether used for homebrew, piracy,a media centre, linux box etc. 

your hardware is your hardware and we shouldn't need to modify our hardware with mod chips to get access to what they stole from us. (the right to use our equipment the way we want.)

I never agree'd to licence the software, im not asking for the source code but I certainly want the right to my hardware by any means necessary.
and I certainly didnt "rent" the hardware so if they want to control it I want compensation for that privilege.

while they may have the legal right to lock down hardware as does any other electronics company they certainly have no moral right to do so, remember everything the Nazi's did was legal in there country, slavery was legal when it existed etc. all those cliche's about unjust laws & "justice" 

the fact is not all laws are just or moral.

its just further proof the west is truly a corporatocracy we just lie to ourselves that its not, but not enough people stand up because stealing your rights when it comes to your hardware isn't as egregious as other evils we have faced in the past and people would rather shut up and take the abuse than do something about it.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

It astounds me how many people think that hacking a system is the moral high ground. I don't think its wrong to do what you want but you're not robin hood. All business practices these days are at least somewhat shady. But you're  not sticking to the man. You are just playing with your toys.


----------



## DrunkenMonk (Nov 3, 2021)

Argonitious said:


> This was bound to happen eventually. If you create and sell a device that is mostly designed for piracy, you're basically doomed from the start. It is disappointing that this may be the end of newer-gen Switch hacking. At least from what I understand, their modchip was the only way to hack newer Switch consoles. While I don't condone piracy, not being able to run homebrew is a huge loss.
> 
> I have always believed that a computing device is only yours if you can freely run custom software. If you can only run official software and nothing else, it is not truly your device. I would have stopped buying Nintendo consoles long ago for this reason, but I like a lot of the Nintendo-exclusive game franchises.


In fairness, I keep an SX chip on-hand purely to restore systems with a dead or corrupt EMMC. You can say it's mostly designed for piracy, but at the end of the day the device doesn't do that - SX OS, which had a separate license realistically just disabled all security in horizon, which is where the stickiness comes from. But the core and lite themselves don't actually do anything beyond put the console in a state which allows it to accept a custom payload. They are not piracy devices and aren't designed to be. This isn't a PS1/2 modchip that just purely enables reading of backup discs and defeats just that layer of security. A thunderbolt cable isn't a piracy device just because it can be used to jailbreak an iphone and then somebody just happens to pirate an app. 

I, and even the courts see no issue with these kinds of devices that give me, as primarily a repair/serviceman an ability to repair something I otherwise would be unable to.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

DrunkenMonk said:


> In fairness, I keep an SX chip on-hand purely to restore systems with a dead or corrupt EMMC. You can say it's mostly designed for piracy, but at the end of the day the device doesn't do that - SX OS, which had a separate license realistically just disabled all security in horizon, which is where the stickiness comes from. But the core and lite themselves don't actually do anything beyond put the console in a state which allows it to accept a custom payload. They are not piracy devices and aren't designed to be. This isn't a PS1/2 modchip that just purely enables reading of backup discs and defeats just that layer of security. A thunderbolt cable isn't a piracy device just because it can be used to jailbreak an iphone and then somebody just happens to pirate an app.
> 
> I, and even the courts see no issue with these kinds of devices that give me, as primarily a repair/serviceman an ability to repair something I otherwise would be unable to.


The problem isn't in the device itself, but the software, like you've stated. However, when your product advertising primarily focuses on hacking the system to enable piracy? You're setting yourself up for failure.


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It astounds me how many people think that hacking a system is the moral high ground. I don't think its wrong to do what you want but you're not robin hood. All business practices these days are at least somewhat shady. But you're  not sticking to the man. You are just playing with your toys.


This isn’t about some moral high ground, it’s about shady teams causing their own downfall and not actually helping the community. Losing SX products is a loss for the community, but it’s a loss created by a team who didn’t share documentation of their products nor any of their sources. This can not be said of open source community projects. If something happened to the devs behind those projects, the source code is well documented, backed up, and publicly available for anyone to continue work from. There are flashcart teams in the past that made their kernel and SDK publicly available and as a result we saw community efforts long past the expiration date of those products. SX’s greatest failure comes from them not future-proofing and not directly cooperating with the community, which puts us in the current situation where don’t have the means of continuing their work.


----------



## DrunkenMonk (Nov 3, 2021)

Memoir said:


> The problem isn't in the device itself, but the software, like you've stated. However, when your advertising primarily focuses on hacking the system to enable piracy? You're setting yourself up for failure.


That would be fair if it were true, but Team Xecuter actively acted against piracy. Anything even remotely discussing piracy would result in a ban and removal of content. Contrary to popular belief, the content of Reddit does not reflect the goals or ideals of Team Xecuter.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 3, 2021)

DrunkenMonk said:


> That would be fair if it were true, but Team Xecuter actively acted against piracy. Anything even remotely discussing piracy would result in a ban and removal of content. Contrary to popular belief, the content of Reddit does not reflect the goals or ideals of Team Xecuter.


They most definitely did not actively act against piracy. One of their big selling points was XCI loading. Calling them "backups" doesn't change the fact they vaguely bragged about being able to load games outside of Nintendo's permitted guidelines. Nobody said anything about Reddit. Let alone public forum posts.


----------



## DrunkenMonk (Nov 3, 2021)

Memoir said:


> They most definitely did not actively act against piracy. One of their big selling points was XCI loading. Calling them "backups" doesn't change the fact they vaguely bragged about being able to load games outside of Nintendo's permitted guidelines. Nobody said anything about Reddit. Let alone public forum posts.


Ahh, I see... Yes XCI loading was a primary function of SX OS, as was the ability to dump your own cartridges, which is legally not piracy, for quite a long time I would have access to my switch library without carrying around the carts with me, which I found to be super useful - but that is a point of contention when discussing for some people and I understand that, you are allowed to have your own opinion and that's totally fine. I won't try change your stance on that as we're just on opposite sides of the fence and that's just how things are sometimes


----------



## BraveDragonWolf (Nov 3, 2021)

Kidnapping the princess just wasn't enough...


----------



## dude1 (Nov 3, 2021)

mikefor20 said:


> It astounds me how many people think that hacking a system is the moral high ground. I don't think its wrong to do what you want but you're not robin hood. All business practices these days are at least somewhat shady. But you're  not sticking to the man. You are just playing with your toys.


why can't it be both the moral high ground and just playing with your toys.?

 hacking our systems to do what we want is the moral position because its ours and our right to do what we want with our hardware shouldn't be stolen from us.

to vusuailize it better lets comparison that isn't computers/electronics.
imagine if you bought a car and you could only go to a gas station owned and associated by that dealer, (app stores/ closed platforms) 
or your AC or <insert engine part here> stops working by design after you drive a certain distance from a authorized dealer (allways online/ periodic online checks)
not to mention repairs or the ability to buy parts from who or when you want etc.

would I consider  having the ability for a car owner to use and/or fixing  there car being them being a "Robin Hood" no.
but I would consider it having the moral high ground and thus any corporation trying to steal those rights to be immoral.
even though in many instances using cars is as you put it "just playing with your toys." like it is with computers/electronics.

consoles are principally no different and to say otherwise is to buy into immoral corporatist propaganda.


----------



## Armadillo (Nov 3, 2021)

DaniPoo said:


> But they are known to have been putting brick code in their software that bricks your console if you try to run it without their hardware I believe. If I remember correctly... That is just a very shitty move.
> 
> Imagine if Nintendo did not block your account but instead bricked your console on purpose if they identified that you were running custom firmware...  That would be the the same thing pretty much



No need to imagine. Nintendo did brick consoles intentionally. Intentionally bricked region changed Korean Wii's with an update. Looked for the Korean key (unique to Korean Wii) and if found, brick. Didn't have to, could have made the update fail, but chose the brick.

Got a free pass for it, no one cared then and no one cares now. Whether bricking is good or bad, depends entirely on if people like the company.


----------



## BlackZero500 (Nov 3, 2021)

pedro702 said:


> preety sure he hurted alot of software sales , with the switch having so much install base more than 90 millions consoles even if it was like 1% of hacked switchers that would be a damn huge money that was lost of software sales nintendo and 3rd party alike.


Same old wrong math. While there are people that pirate games just because they can, the most of them couldnt pay for the games or the games arent worth their money. Or they are like me and mostly dump their bought games for convenience. See it does not make sense but its WAY more expensive to only buy digital copies so i buy them physicals from amazon or ebay and dump them so i wont have to switch cards. And yes i still own them but they probably never get out of their shelf ever again.

What i was getting at was that your math includes ALL of the pirated games while most of those woudnt have been bought even if they couldnt pirate them. So its not 1% but more like, 0,01% or something.


----------



## pedro702 (Nov 3, 2021)

BlackZero500 said:


> Same old wrong math. While there are people that pirate games just because they can, the most of them couldnt pay for the games or the games arent worth their money. Or they are like me and mostly dump their bought games for convenience. See it does not make sense but its WAY more expensive to only buy digital copies so i buy them physicals from amazon or ebay and dump them so i wont have to switch cards. And yes i still own them but they probably never get out of their shelf ever again.
> 
> What i was getting at was that your math includes ALL of the pirated games while most of those woudnt have been bought even if they couldnt pirate them. So its not 1% but more like, 0,01% or something.


even if it was 0.01%  
Lifetime unit sales for Switch console gaming software amounted to 578 million. 

So  5 780 000 heck he is even getting a discount lol 4.5 million is less than 0.01% of sotware sales up to march 2021.


----------



## MasterZoilus (Nov 3, 2021)

Gary has been a criminal since the 90's! He ran from sony and fled to another country after losing a case they had against for millions!  

In another case he was found guilty on credit card theft where he served over 6 yrs in prison. And all these idiots paying with credit cards to all these fake store fronts he and TX had set up... lol and he's done other stuff, just google it.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

*Snipped reply to deleted post*



dude1 said:


> why can't it be both the moral high ground and just playing with your toys.?
> 
> hacking our systems to do what we want is the moral position because its ours and our right to do what we want with our hardware shouldn't be stolen from us.
> 
> ...



Hahaha LOL ROFL Why can't it be both? Because it's not. 

Hacking a video game system is not noble.. You are not Robin Hood LOL. I don't mind people doing whatever they want with their systems, of course. Anything you own. I modify everything I have pretty much, however, you're not a hero for doing it. It's definitely not the moral High Ground. There are other devices out there if you want to tinker. That's not what this one's for. To call it the moral High ground it's just some kind of mental acrobatics meant to make yourself feel better. Come on man LOL. You're not Robinhood, man. And you ARE just playing with your toys. That's your only real argument. It's mine and I will play with it how I want. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Moral High Ground? LOL just because you bought a frying pan doesn't mean you're entitled to food to put in it! LOL and if I want to make a product I can make it any way I want even if that means you can't do what you want with it. Especially if you have to sign an agreement in order to use it. If you don't like that buy another similar product that does what you want. There are plenty of other tablets out there.

Wow.


----------



## mikefor20 (Nov 3, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> This isn’t about some moral high ground, it’s about shady teams causing their own downfall and not actually helping the community. Losing SX products is a loss for the community, but it’s a loss created by a team who didn’t share documentation of their products nor any of their sources. This can not be said of open source community projects. If something happened to the devs behind those projects, the source code is well documented, backed up, and publicly available for anyone to continue work from. There are flashcart teams in the past that made their kernel and SDK publicly available and as a result we saw community efforts long past the expiration date of those products. SX’s greatest failure comes from them not future-proofing and not directly cooperating with the community, which puts us in the current situation where don’t have the means of continuing their work.



An awful lot of the posts on here are about how TX deserved it. About how they're not supposed to be selling this code or how they're not giving credit yada yada yada. Essentially taking the moral High Ground.
It really isn't.
 And none of the developers owe the community damn thing LOL Even TX.


----------



## CompSciOrBust (Nov 3, 2021)

pofehof said:


> Except you are the guy who has been arguing in defense of SX OS for over 12 hours spamming this topic. You really need to give it a rest.
> 
> Also, when SXOS first came out, it was strictly for piracy (since there wasn't much homebrew available, most users couldn't even create their own backups), so you can't say that SX OS was mainly for homebrew.


There were lots of homebrew available. For around a year (since firmware 3.0.0) all we had access to was homebrew since exploits at the time weren't powerful enough to patch signatures.


----------



## mugwort (Nov 3, 2021)

Well, despite the irony of the name and thinking he would have been better off designing an emulator, it’s sad to see how much things have changed since the VCR battle of the 70s when the judge ruled that even if 99% of the use was illegal it could be sold for its legal value to society.

Thanks to Napster, we no longer have to pay $18 for one good song and 35 minutes of filler.


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Nov 3, 2021)

pustal said:


> Being able to use backups is not a crime, if people use it for copyright violation then the fault is on them. This is a very bad precedent for the community, as much as I dislike the guy.


It absolutely is if it requires DRM circumvention. Removing/bypassing copy protection is a DMCA violation.


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## Tiger21820 (Nov 3, 2021)

Which is why the law makers need to wipe that restriction off the DMCA and make a new law that prohibits the reinstatement of said restriction!


----------



## deisuke1234 (Nov 3, 2021)

linuxares said:


> Then DON'T buy their products. It have nothing to do with greed if people pay or it


I don't feel like that is something we should argument about. What I am saying is their price tags aren't linear to a common person income which could be one scenario over why piracy exist in the first place. I think you misunderstood me. Since what I am trying to o say is each action has a consequence and it has nothing to do what my personal feelings.


----------



## MetoMeto (Nov 4, 2021)

"_Team Xecuter has caused an estimated number between $65 million to $150 million in losses to video game companies_"
How EXACTLY did they loose that? that's bullshit lol These companies always talk about some imaginary loss.


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## 0x3000027E (Nov 4, 2021)

pedro702 said:


> even if it was 0.01%
> Lifetime unit sales for Switch console gaming software amounted to 578 million.
> 
> So  5 780 000 heck he is even getting a discount lol 4.5 million is less than 0.01% of sotware sales up to march 2021.


Do they teach economics in Portugal?


----------



## Paulsar99 (Nov 4, 2021)

I don't feel bad for him. He made money selling piracy and hacking consoles for years. He's basically taunting gaming companies and asking for it.


----------



## pustal (Nov 4, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> It absolutely is if it requires DRM circumvention. Removing/bypassing copy protection is a DMCA violation.





Tiger21820 said:


> Which is why the law makers need to wipe that restriction off the DMCA and make a new law that prohibits the reinstatement of said restriction!



Is it on the Dominican Republic however? As far as I understand he was operating from there. More even, he isn't even American, he is Canadian. Reminds me of Richard O'Dwyer's case with the added bonus that in this case not even the accuser is an American company, only using the US and its laws as a field for their attack.


----------



## Zkajavier (Nov 4, 2021)

Something something, I'm still waiting for the nice people of China to edit the clones so they work on the OLED without so much soldering.



MetoMeto said:


> "_Team Xecuter has caused an estimated number between $65 million to $150 million in losses to video game companies_"
> How EXACTLY did they loose that? that's bullshit lol These companies always talk about some imaginary loss.


Nintendo probably has metrics about how much money each individual usually spends in average. Just multiply that by the amount of modchips sold and you have a number. It's not 100% accurate but it's good for estimates.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 4, 2021)

Zkajavier said:


> Something something, I'm still waiting for the nice people of China to edit the clones so they work on the OLED without so much soldering.


I'd probably cop an OLED if third party chips came out.


----------



## smashbro596 (Nov 4, 2021)

Purple_Shyguy said:


> Scum? He sold mod chips and a custom firmware that we all use. This entire site is built around hacking, piracy, mod chips etc for decades.


i mean by that definition we're all likely targets of nintendos ninja hit squads...


----------



## ChibiMofo (Nov 4, 2021)

regnad said:


> So long, Ga(r)y Bowser!


Really regnad? 4th graders _used _to do that as an insult. Now even 4th graders don't see it as one.
​


----------



## CompSciOrBust (Nov 4, 2021)

mugwort said:


> Well, despite the irony of the name and thinking he would have been better off designing an emulator, it’s sad to see how much things have changed since the VCR battle of the 70s when the judge ruled that even if 99% of the use was illegal it could be sold for its legal value to society.
> 
> Thanks to Napster, we no longer have to pay $18 for one good song and 35 minutes of filler.


Gary did make emulators for older systems in his spare time. I don't know if he ever released any.


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## chrisrlink (Nov 4, 2021)

again restitution is meaningless nintendo won't see a fricking dime of that 4.5 mil he'll just declare bankruptcy like Kongnutz when he leaked SMBW


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## chrisrlink (Nov 4, 2021)

smashbro596 said:


> i mean by that definition we're all likely targets of nintendos ninja hit squads...


yeah but they're just too many of us it's not financially sound for N to sue the average pirate who doesn't host sites and just pirate for our personal use


----------



## subcon959 (Nov 4, 2021)

ChibiMofo said:


> Really regnad? 4th graders _used _to do that as an insult. Now even 4th graders don't see it as one.
> ​


Seriously? Never played Mario 64 eh?


----------



## subcon959 (Nov 4, 2021)

Just to nip this in the bud before more people get the wrong idea..


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## tpax (Nov 4, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Just to nip this in the bud before more people get the wrong idea..



People should do some research themselves, before they open their mouth.


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## rantex92 (Nov 4, 2021)

This name thing is so surreal whats the odds Gary-Bowser-Nintendo  i guess sometimes life memes the hardest


----------



## SoulOfGazza (Nov 4, 2021)

One down One to go

Knew my evidence would sink his defense

So long Gary Wayne Bowser you utter piece of scammer support shit

Bet Max has filled his diapers now Gary ,as I told you long ago , is singing like a bird

Karma is a bitch


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## subcon959 (Nov 4, 2021)

I knew this news would bring certain people out of the woodwork..


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 4, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> I knew this news would bring certain people out of the woodwork..


Yeah, I really gotta stop feeding into this. It's predictable, but I keep falling into it.


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## Kopimist (Nov 4, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> It absolutely is if it requires DRM circumvention. Removing/bypassing copy protection is a DMCA violation.


Backup copies are covered under Section 117 of US Copyright Law. The DMCA prohibits bypassing circumvention of technological measures for unauthorized copies. Ive always interpreted this personally as legitimate backups ARE authorized by federal law so unless youre actually pirating games no crime has been committed. Im also not a lawyer or legal expert nor do I pretend to be.

https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/...ction 117, you or,the original copy, once the


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## RedBlueGreen (Nov 4, 2021)

Kopimist said:


> Backup copies are covered under Section 117 of US Copyright Law. The DMCA prohibits bypassing circumvention of technological measures for unauthorized copies. Ive always interpreted this personally as legitimate backups ARE authorized by federal law so unless youre actually pirating games no crime has been committed. Im also not a lawyer or legal expert nor do I pretend to be.
> 
> https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/...ction 117, you or,the original copy, once the


"It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies."
This pretty much puts a stop to that, because most games and systems don't permit you to make back ups, which is why you need to circumvent the DRM protection. You can legally back up most computer programs, as in those on personal computers because there's nothing stopping you from copying the files or making a disk image.


----------



## tabzer (Nov 5, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> "It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies."
> This pretty much puts a stop to that, because most games and systems don't permit you to make back ups, which is why you need to circumvent the DRM protection. You can legally back up most computer programs, as in those on personal computers because there's nothing stopping you from copying the files or making a disk image.


How does it put a stop to it when it says, specifically, the Copyright Act has provisions for making backup copies of computer programs.

Are you making the argument that computer programs and games fall under different categories, covered by different laws?


----------



## RedBlueGreen (Nov 5, 2021)

tabzer said:


> How does it put a stop to it when it says, specifically, the Copyright Act has provisions for making backup copies of computer programs.
> 
> Are you making the argument that computer programs and games fall under different categories, covered by different laws?


For starters said section specifically says you can't make copies if it's against the license agreement. Also computer programs doesn't mean your game cartridges, it means software on your computer. Maybe digital games, but you already agreed not to copy digital games by accepting the console EULA. This is about being allowed to back up computer programs you purchased like Photoshop, not hacking your consoles to dump your games. It is a crime to bypass copy protection. If you have to do this, odds are you don't have the right to make a back up copy of the software, and are making an unauthorized copy. This is why computer software often includes in its EULA that you may have one back up/archived copy.


----------



## ZeroT21 (Nov 5, 2021)

I wonder how these so-called losses can even be incurred, when pirates never have the intention to spend, or does ninty make money off of lawsuits?


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## tabzer (Nov 5, 2021)

ZeroT21 said:


> I wonder how these so-called losses can even be incurred, when pirates never have the intention to spend, or does ninty make money off of lawsuits?


Pirates may have unintentionally paid for software by paying xcuter.  I doubt Nintendo's lawfirms are supposed make more money than what is gained in the legal victories.  Whether folks like Gary actually pays the fee is another story.


RedBlueGreen said:


> For starters said section specifically says you can't make copies if it's against the license agreement. Also computer programs doesn't mean your game cartridges, it means software on your computer. Maybe digital games, but you already agreed not to copy digital games by accepting the console EULA. This is about being allowed to back up computer programs you purchased like Photoshop, not hacking your consoles to dump your games. It is a crime to bypass copy protection. If you have to do this, odds are you don't have the right to make a back up copy of the software, and are making an unauthorized copy. This is why computer software often includes in its EULA that you may have one back up/archived copy.



I read from a different source (Cornell), and not the actual gov site that had the entirety of what you quoted.  To have "It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy,"  and "There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies," in the same paragraph seems confusing--but it does appear that the first part makes it pretty clear, that in some cases, you may not be purchasing software, but terms of usage.

I don't understand why they would suggest the existence of provisions (or lack thereof) if the EULA would trump it anyway.


----------



## smf (Nov 5, 2021)

weatMod said:


> the DMCA is fraudulent   law bought by a bunch hollyweird pedophiles
> if you actually pay for media (music, movies, etc.) you are supporting pedophilia , terrorism and the  removal of your own freedoms


Off the meds again?

DMCA is not fraudulent.


----------



## mspy (Nov 5, 2021)

RedBlueGreen said:


> but you already agreed not to copy digital games by accepting the console EULA


Can the EULA supersede local law? Like if the law says that you have the right to make backups and the EULA says otherwise which one matters the most?

Also to dump a game you don't necessary need to see/agree to the EULA.
So like if you only see the EULA after you dump a game when trying to run it, since the game is already dumped you are only agreeing to it from that point on? Kinda nitpicking here a bit but that is how the law works, everything is too subjective.


----------



## smf (Nov 5, 2021)

SaltyDog said:


> I've always been perplexed when this happens. Nintendo claims that they've been harmed between 65-150 million, but are made whole by a 4.5 mil restitution. How are they made whole if it's just a fraction of lost sales then? Every year it seems that these companies make such broad claims of piracy damages but fail to provide proof.


Restitution rarely covers the total loss.

Is the 65-150 million total sales? They wouldn't have made that much profit on them.

But sure, they can't know what the sales are, but then nobody can ever know that.

Does it matter if you're mugged and you don't know exactly how much money was in your wallet when you were mugged. If you thought you had $100 in there then you'd say that, even if you were wrong.


----------



## smf (Nov 5, 2021)

mspy said:


> Can the EULA supersede local law? Like if the law says that you have the right to make backups and the EULA says otherwise which one matters the most?


Contract law allows you to sign up or for or sign away rights, whether the EULA forms a contract and whether the terms in that contract are fair (and most jurisdictions allow you to ignore unfair contract terms) is another matter.


----------



## smf (Nov 5, 2021)

dude1 said:


> while they may have the legal right to lock down hardware as does any other electronics company they certainly have no moral right to do so,


They have the legal right to do it because almost everyone hacking consoles, is doing it purely to pirate games.

I'd say that kinda gives them a moral right to do it.

I'm not entirely sure why it bothers anyone.


----------



## smf (Nov 5, 2021)

MetoMeto said:


> "_Team Xecuter has caused an estimated number between $65 million to $150 million in losses to video game companies_"
> How EXACTLY did they loose that? that's bullshit lol These companies always talk about some imaginary loss.



It's an estimate. It's impossible to prove what the loss was & the courts realize that.

You also can't prove that someone is dangerous when driving drunk or speeding, they might not have an accident etc.

However when SXOS was being sold (or someone gets behind of the wheel drunk) then they also don't know how bad the outcome will be and instead put their own self first.

So the prosecution makes a guess how bad it is & you have no moral high road to stand on & say they are wrong.

If you try then it will come over as you not having remorse and it will be worse for you. 

If you suggest a lower figure then it also shows you were capable of determining that there would be a non zero loss.


----------



## weatMod (Nov 5, 2021)

smf said:


> Off the meds again?
> 
> DMCA is not fraudulent.


yes it is


----------



## Kopimist (Nov 5, 2021)

The DMCA isn't all bad as it provides safe harbor provisions for ISP's, web hosts etc etc. Imo the anticircumvention clauses need to be tossed out completely in favor of consumer freedom.


----------



## City (Nov 5, 2021)

Retroboy said:


> So much hate towards a scene that provided people the tools you all used to allow piracy.
> 
> problem with the internet, no respect for the scene and you all wonder why no one will bother to try find a new exploits for new consoles, as soon as they get caught or dont provide updates, everyone then seems to hate.
> 
> id say gutted to be them and say thanks for what you did for all these years.


This guy had enough money to casually pay $4.5 millions in restitution to Nintendo, and I'm pretty sure he has other money that Nintendo can't get their hands on due to them possibly being offshore. If anything, this story will increase the amount of people trying to break the code to make millions.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 5, 2021)

smf said:


> It's an estimate. It's impossible to prove what the loss was & the courts realize that.
> 
> You also can't prove that someone is dangerous when driving drunk or speeding, they might not have an accident etc.
> 
> ...


Getting drunk has been proven to cause impairment. Piracy has not been proven to damage a company. Not a good comparison.


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## smashbro596 (Nov 5, 2021)

Memoir said:


> Getting drunk has been proven to cause impairment. Piracy has not been proven to damage a company. Not a good comparison.


not saying i think we should all be pirates. but yeah, i agree. in the grand scheme of things it's not as big a deal as nintendo is making it.
they are still selling like hotcakes. even with all the piracy taken into account.


----------



## Zajumino (Nov 6, 2021)

mspy said:


> Can the EULA supersede local law? Like if the law says that you have the right to make backups and the EULA says otherwise which one matters the most?
> 
> Also to dump a game you don't necessary need to see/agree to the EULA.
> So like if you only see the EULA after you dump a game when trying to run it, since the game is already dumped you are only agreeing to it from that point on? Kinda nitpicking here a bit but that is how the law works, everything is too subjective.


I feel like these kinds of questions are unlikely to ever be answered, because no one actually gets in trouble for making backups of their games (unless they distribute them in an attention attracting way). Local law enforcement is probably unlikely to go after someone that broke a EULA, but not any local laws. One way of looking at it is to say piracy is effectively legal for most people.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Nov 6, 2021)

weatMod said:


> if you actually pay for media (music, movies, etc.) you are supporting pedophilia , terrorism and the removal of your own freedoms


I'm a  true pirate and I have never read anything more fucking stupid in my whole life!


----------



## NeroAngelo (Nov 6, 2021)

"Team Xecuter has caused an estimated number between $65 million to $150 million in losses to video game companies."

I'd like to think karma is biting the TX team in the ass, but how in the hell did Ninty lawyers reach that number? did they pull it out of their asses?


----------



## smf (Nov 6, 2021)

Memoir said:


> Getting drunk has been proven to cause impairment. Piracy has not been proven to damage a company. Not a good comparison.



It's a great analogy as piracy has been proven to impact sales https://corsearch.com/does-piracy-impact-sales-a-look-at-the-data/



NeroAngelo said:


> I'd like to think karma is biting the TX team in the ass, but how in the hell did Ninty lawyers reach that number? did they pull it out of their asses?


They said it was an estimate. They will have made assumptions to reach it.

I would be interested in how they calculated it, but it's kinda pointless in terms of the court as everyone involved is fully aware that it's an estimate.



Kopimist said:


> Backup copies are covered under Section 117 of US Copyright Law. The DMCA prohibits bypassing circumvention of technological measures for unauthorized copies. Ive always interpreted this personally as legitimate backups ARE authorized by federal law so unless youre actually pirating games no crime has been committed. Im also not a lawyer or legal expert nor do I pretend to be.
> 
> https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html#:~:text=Under section 117, you or,the original copy, once the



You can backup the software, but DMCA prevents modifications of consoles even to play legitimate backups.

However, DMCA only covers distributing the modification & not applying it (mainly because if you're a private citizen doing it for yourself then they can't ever know and if they could find out then the courts would be full of cases).

It doesn't change TX position whether you play backups of your originals, or downloaded files from the internet.

Let's face it. You could fit all the people who bought SXOS to play legitimate backups, in one room.



dude1 said:


> no scum have been brought to justice here, the scum are Nintendo and it's lawyers lets be real whether used for homebrew, piracy,a media centre, linux box etc..


When are you going to start being real? Who bought SXOS to use linux or a media centre?



Tiger21820 said:


> Which is why the law makers need to wipe that restriction off the DMCA and make a new law that prohibits the reinstatement of said restriction!


That isn't how laws work.
And why would they?



DrunkenMonk said:


> But the core and lite themselves don't actually do anything beyond put the console in a state which allows it to accept a custom payload.


That is enough to be illegal, because they know that the people who have any kind of legitimate reason to do that are statistical noise compared to the pirates.

Unless they did visits to check all the SXOS customers were still using it for legitimate reasons, then banning it is their only option.



weatMod said:


> yes it is


No, it's not. You disagree with it.

To say it's fraudulent is just delusional. Where is the fraud?



pustal said:


> How do you indirectly steal code and what would Atmosphere have?


You disassemble it and then write something equivalent. That creates a clear copyright violation.

Which re3 will become very aware of soon.


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## subcon959 (Nov 6, 2021)

Wtf is with spamming the crap out of the thread instead of editing posts?


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## weatMod (Nov 6, 2021)

smf said:


> No, it's not. You disagree with it.
> 
> To say it's fraudulent is just delusional. Where is the fraud?


it's called bribery


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## Kopimist (Nov 6, 2021)

To all the people claiming Team Xecuter stole code from Atmosphere was this ever proven? Im curious to know, I hear a lot of people claiming it but was it ever actually proven? The only way to know for certain would be to disassemble SX OS and to my knowledge thats never been done. Correct me if I'm wrong however. If it has been proven id like to see the proof out of pure curiosity. If someone could point me in the right direction. It would be much appreciated.


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## The Catboy (Nov 6, 2021)

Kopimist said:


> To all the people claiming Team Xecuter stole code from Atmosphere was this ever proven? Im curious to know, I hear a lot of people claiming it but was it ever actually proven? The only way to know for certain would be to disassemble SX OS and to my knowledge thats never been done. Correct me if I'm wrong however. If it has been proven id like to see the proof out of pure curiosity. If someone could point me in the right direction. It would be much appreciated.


This has been proven

There have been several other issues noted where SXOS was found to share many of the issues found in beta versions of Atmosphere, unfortunately, I can't seem to find those tweets. One of the reasons SXOS started doing "beta" versions was because they pumped out 3 broken updates due to the code being based on unstable Atmosphere code.


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## secti8n (Nov 6, 2021)

Members of gbatemp 
where is the oldskool hacking of boot.dat with sx os
Denuvo cracked by EMPRESS,RAZOR,HOODLUM,PLAZA(CODEX) AND SO ON AND SO ON
WE HAVE C.O.R.E  for keygen and hacking when you start to learn,
that we have so much GROUPS for hacking and cracking that when they put there minds together
and come with a more better solution for this problem.
Boot.dat (okay xci loading,usb hard disk loading, are they all scared of nintendo.


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## The Catboy (Nov 6, 2021)

secti8n said:


> Members of gbatemp
> where is the oldskool hacking of boot.dat with sx os
> Denuvo cracked by EMPRESS,RAZOR,HOODLUM,PLAZA(CODEX) AND SO ON AND SO ON
> WE HAVE C.O.R.E  for keygen and hacking when you start to learn,
> ...


https://gbatemp.net/threads/hack-sxos.582831/
You're welcome


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 6, 2021)

Kopimist said:


> To all the people claiming Team Xecuter stole code from Atmosphere was this ever proven? Im curious to know, I hear a lot of people claiming it but was it ever actually proven? The only way to know for certain would be to disassemble SX OS and to my knowledge thats never been done. Correct me if I'm wrong however. If it has been proven id like to see the proof out of pure curiosity. If someone could point me in the right direction. It would be much appreciated.


You're coming in way too late to challenge this notion.


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## Kopimist (Nov 6, 2021)

The Catboy said:


> This has been proven
> 
> There have been several other issues noted where SXOS was found to share many of the issues found in beta versions of Atmosphere, unfortunately, I can't seem to find those tweets. One of the reasons SXOS started doing "beta" versions was because they pumped out 3 broken updates due to the code being based on unstable Atmosphere code.



Thank you for this.


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## Kopimist (Nov 6, 2021)

Memoir said:


> You're coming in way too late to challenge this notion.


I honestly wasn't trying to challenge it, was just curious if it had been proven and it has


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## smf (Nov 6, 2021)

weatMod said:


> it's called bribery


bribery is illegal, where is your proof?



subcon959 said:


> Wtf is with spamming the crap out of the thread instead of editing posts?


once you have posted then you can't quote another post without it creating a new post. The board used to then merge them.


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## smf (Nov 6, 2021)

I can't find out how to delete posts either, this new forum is shite.


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## AaronDee (Nov 7, 2021)

damn i never used SX OS but wow that sucks


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## AchakClaw (Nov 7, 2021)

regnad said:


> So long, Ga(r)y Bowser!


Nice one XD


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## Pippin666 (Nov 8, 2021)

That bastard better go to prison.

Pip'


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## Crazynoob458 (Nov 8, 2021)

what cancer did i read


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## dude1 (Nov 9, 2021)

smf said:


> They have the legal right to do it because almost everyone hacking consoles, is doing it purely to pirate games.
> 
> I'd say that kinda gives them a moral right to do it.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure why it bothers anyone.


theres no data to prove that  almost everyone hacking consoles, is doing it purely to pirate games.
even if I granted that as 100% fact, people have the right to do with there porperty as they see fit.
if police want to try to prove and arrest individual pirates go ahead but the argument everyone uses X for X is the same argument as "almost everyone with guns, knives etc. is doing it purely to commit crimes."

just cause some people break the law with some tool doesnt justify taking away the rights of people who haven't yet with said tool.

them stealing my right to use my property as I see fit against my will gives me and others like me the moral superiority in this regard, unless you don't believe in property rights at all.

it bothers anyone who believes in property rights, heck they get mad about console hacking, piracy, emulation for the same reason, they also believe in property rights.
the disagreement is where theres stop and ours begin, but they constantly want to have their cake and eat it too.


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## smf (Nov 9, 2021)

dude1 said:


> it bothers anyone who believes in property rights, heck they get mad about console hacking, piracy, emulation for the same reason, they also believe in property rights.
> the disagreement is where theres stop and ours begin, but they constantly want to have their cake and eat it too.



No, they want you to stop pirating games.

Emulation is almost always piracy too.


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## dude1 (Nov 9, 2021)

smf said:


> No, they want you to stop pirating games.
> 
> Emulation is almost always piracy too.


as I say even if for arguments sake I granted that as 100% fact that all console moder's are pirates no exceptions and I'll add the addendum of everyone ever involved with emulation only uses it to pirate no exceptions, that doesn't change what I'm saying.

 so they want PEOPLE to stop pirating games because they believe in property rights.
if they didnt they'd have no right to dictate who or who doesnt have the right to the magic 1's & 0's that is the "their" game.

so they have hardware they create in this case its a game console but as I say the principle applies to any other consumer good (PC, TV, Car etc.)
once they've sold their hardware to me it is mine, what gives them the moral right to dictate what I can or cannot do with it?

are you infavor of car munfacurers dictating where you can and cannot drive, TV manufacturers dictating what you can or cannot watch?
im guessing not and im guessing if they tried you would think you had the moral high ground not them in that argument.

even though like the console modding scene people can use a car illegally or a TV illegally but that doesnt mean everyone that uses one is a criminal nor should everyone be treated like one by immoral corporations looking for a power grab after taking your money for said product.

like I say they want to have their cake and eat it too.


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## smf (Nov 9, 2021)

dude1 said:


> are you infavor of car munfacurers dictating where you can and cannot drive,


There are laws about where you can and can't drive. New cars have safety features that are designed to stop you driving into things that you want to.

The problem you have is that courts believe that most consoles are modified for piracy, so they passed a law that banned it. I think they are correct in their assumption and I suspect that you think they are correct to but don't want to accept it.

Nintendo didn't introduce the law, so your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

You haven't established how they want their cake and eat it.


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## dude1 (Nov 9, 2021)

smf said:


> There are laws about where you can and can't drive.


and cops can fine or arrest, suspend licences etc. on people committing traffic offences on public land/roads, that doesnt mean because people have the ability to commit crimes in cars vehicles are only dictated to drive to and from predetermined places allowed by that cars manufacurer.
also you can drive where you want on your own land, the car doesnt stop driving on dirt roads, in fields etc.

you can even buy a vehicle without a license or insurance no one prevents you from utilizing that once its your property but break a law and charges/legal filings could happen.

Nintendo doesnt give us a unlocked console and only locks it down for convicted pirates, nor do they unlock the device when requested by a purchaser not guilty of piracy.




smf said:


> The problem you have is that courts believe that most consoles are modified for piracy, so they passed a law that banned it. I think they are correct in their assumption and I suspect that you think they are correct to but don't want to accept it.


I think whether they or I believe that or not is different to whether companies should or should not have the right to dictate access and usage rights to my private property.

as I said from the beginning its not disputed they have the legal right to, I'd argue they dont have the moral right to.

many laws throughout history have been unjust and immoral.
its not about me accepting anything or not



smf said:


> Nintendo didn't introduce the law, so your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
> 
> You haven't established how they want their cake and eat it.


they like many other software publishers and hardware companies often are taking advantage of a corrupt laws to suit their means.
not to mention utilizing lobby groups for legalized bribery to get the laws past in the 1st place and strengthened over the years.
they are not the sole cause but just because they aren't the elected official that imposed the laws doesn't mean they are not complicit in their abuse.

Nintendo doesnt need to release their hardware locked down, they also have the ability to unlock it at will, in this instance they are the roadblock.

they are the problem.

I'll ignore legal backups, emulation, linux, media centres and home-brew for arguments sake.

why should a pirate feel morally inferior for "stealing" access to a copy of Nintendo's software titles if at the same time, Nintendo are simultaneously "stealing" full access to that pirate's (and millions of other people's) hardware?

I can agree both pirates and Nintendo Co., Ltd./ anyone their involved in DRM are both immoral if you want to agrue that, but thats not the dispute you started.

your claim is everyone should loose their property rights to hardware they purchased because the manufacturer of that hardware wants to stop a small percentage of people that pirate.

so in essence the many (all) should suffer to stop the few, seems like a pretty Immoral stance to me.

I say if I had to pick one as the moral party its the one who paid for the hardware who has yet to be proven to have broken the law and till then is innocent until proven guilty.



smf said:


> You haven't established how they want their cake and eat it.


they want you to pay as if you bought something yet they want to dictate your usage of it as if they never sold it to you in the 1st place when it comes to hardware.

they argue they dont sell you the game (1's & 0's make up the binary, the contained assets etc.) 
they claim instead no you bought a license to view/use that game.

yet when it comes to for example the virtual consoles etc. they force you to buy a 2nd licence as if your 1st never existed.
morally it should be transferable but they offer no such transference mechanism or a way to surrender your existing license in exchange for a identical one on the newer/different platform.

(yes its not unqiue to Nintendo, its endemic to the media industry but once again we are not arguing laws but morality)

3rd is Nintendo abusing laws with lawsuits for example with mod chips or game cheating devices in the past.
many of those don't use Nintendo code and yet the sue on copyright grounds acting like they all do.
taking advantage of the aged largely tech illiterate judiciary.
(once again not unique to Nintendo but I never claimed it was)


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## smf (Nov 10, 2021)

dude1 said:


> and cops can fine or arrest, suspend licences etc. on people committing traffic offences on public land/roads, that doesnt mean because people have the ability to commit crimes in cars vehicles are only dictated to drive to and from predetermined places allowed by that cars manufacurer.



So the problem with your analogy is that Nintendo aren't the ones that decided that you can't modify them.

There are modifications that you can make to your car that are illegal.

So trying to apply console modifications to cars, the car is the console. Nobody is banning you from using the car or the console. But neither of them can be used in any way that you wish, there are laws that prevent you from making certain modifications to them.

You might really want to modify your car, but if the modification is against one of those laws then you will get in trouble.

They sold me a car, but the "government" says I can't put spikes on the wheels. It's like you don't even own it! You should have the right to fit flame throwers and nuclear missile launchers to your car. Just for decorative purposes of course, it doesn't mean I'm going to use them.

Do you see? It's the same.


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## dude1 (Nov 10, 2021)

smf said:


> So the problem with your analogy is that Nintendo aren't the ones that decided that you can't modify them.



wrong, they decided you cannot
they wrote the software on the system, they decided to design the hardware so it damages itself to prevent downgrades (e-fuses), they incorporated checks in all the software to care about the arrangement in the fuses to begin with.
they signed and encrypted the firmwares so any such limitations can't be removed.
and they offer no service to otherwise bypass, downgrade etc. to YOUR hardware if YOU ask them too.

there is no way they are nt responsible for those choices.



smf said:


> There are modifications that you can make to your car that are illegal.



wrong there are modifications you cannot do to your car if you want it to remain street legal on PUBLIC roads. AKA ones you don't own.
eg. some jurisdictions have limits to headlight strength, under lighting,  low riders, dark tinted windows etc.
you'll note that every jurisdiction has different rules for example some states/provinces allow  low riders, dark tinted windows etc.

however if its on private land/roads you can do what you wish , if your modification breaks another law if caught breaking those laws you can be charged with those other laws.

so the correct analogy is they should allow me to use my hardware as I see fit but if I try to connect to their network my device needs to conform to there standards.
just like a car needing to be street legal to be on non private land.

notice how I've never argued I should have a right to their network with my hardware after any changes  
its almost like I understand private property rights.



smf said:


> So trying to apply console modifications to cars, the car is the console. Nobody is banning you from using the car or the console. But neither of them can be used in any way that you wish, there are laws that prevent you from making certain modifications to them.
> 
> You might really want to modify your car, but if the modification is against one of those laws then you will get in trouble.



see above and previous posts to already disprove this.


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## smf (Nov 10, 2021)

dude1 said:


> wrong, they decided you cannot
> they wrote the software on the system, they decided to design the hardware so it damages itself to prevent downgrades (e-fuses), they incorporated checks in all the software to care about the arrangement in the fuses to begin with.
> they signed and encrypted the firmwares so any such limitations can't be removed.
> and they offer no service to otherwise bypass, downgrade etc. to YOUR hardware if YOU ask them too.
> ...


That is them making it hard for you to modify it, they didn't invent the law that says you can't modify it.

A car manufacturer doesn't need to make it easy for you to modify it either.

If you can't modify a switch then it just means you suck at modifying. The reason Nintendo do that is because of piracy, you know it & would admit it if it didn't destroy your argument.

You also know that if the hardware manufacturers sold the hardware without expecting you to buy games, then the hardware would not be sold for the price it was. So you want your cake and eat it.

If you got what you wanted then you wouldn't have bought a switch as it would have been too expensive & IMO kinda boring if there is nothing to hack.



dude1 said:


> see above and previous posts to already disprove this.



Saying you've disproved it, doesn't mean you have. Even if you really think you have.


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