# did sony/nintendo/sega/etc develop their own emulators?



## eriol33 (Mar 20, 2014)

hi guys, I'm just wondering since I couldn't discussion about this. sony, nintendo, sega, and many other video game publishers have published their classic games in emulation (such as nes classic, mega drive classic, etc) now I'm wondering, did they develop their own emulator or they simply just took any open source software available and rebrand them as "game"?


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## Foxi4 (Mar 20, 2014)

Some classics like the Sonic Classic Collection are repurposed homebrew emulators, others are original content. That said, whatever the case may be, the creators of the content get their share, as specified in the software license.


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## eriol33 (Mar 21, 2014)

is there any article about that? I'm really interested to read the reaction from the emulator makers (or whoever know the truth behind the re-released classics) whose software were used by the publishers.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 21, 2014)

eriol33 said:


> is there any article about that? I'm really interested to read the reaction from the emulator makers (or whoever know the truth behind the re-released classics) whose software were used by the publishers.


Usually extatic, because that means that they get credited and find a well-paid job, which was the case with Sonic Classic Collection and the jNesisDS developer, Lordus _(Stephan Dittrich)_. Pretty sure that PS1 virtualization on the PSP was also made by a previously homebrew coder, I'm not sure who though... What I do know is that some developers of Bleem! later got jobs at Sony, this includes Sean Kauppinen and Randy Linden.


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## Zarxrax (Mar 21, 2014)

Didn't the contra game on ds use nesds to emulate the nes games?


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## FAST6191 (Mar 21, 2014)

Another link for the curious
http://waxy.org/2004/07/jaleco_borrows/

I dislike linking wikipedia but it has links to a few more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PocketNES

As Foxi4 said ore than one emu author has also got a job off the back of their efforts in such things.

There are also things like
http://sev-notes.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/gpl-scummvm-and-violations.html

Dosbox is also commonly used by a lot of companies from ID to Lucasarts.

Not all emulator authors share the same opinions though, the GCW people have had some things they could not release because of licensing issues.


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## eriol33 (Mar 21, 2014)

that's very interesting! actually I love to read more of these, but seems nobody interested. oh well, at least some of my curiosity is answered


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## Langin (Mar 21, 2014)

Nintendo does use emulators with the virtual console right? And how about the rerelease of Super Mario All-Stars on the Nintendo Wii?


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## Foxi4 (Mar 21, 2014)

Langin said:


> Nintendo does use emulators with the virtual console right? And how about the rerelease of Super Mario All-Stars on the Nintendo Wii?


Everything that runs on Virtual Console does so via an emulator.


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## GHANMI (Mar 21, 2014)

Besides Nintendo's Virtual Console (obviously), which are emulators covering:
- MSX, NES, some Arcade boards, SNES (minus games with extension chips), N64 (minus any extensions), for the Wii / Wii U
- Some of the above plus GameGear and Gameboy (Color) for the 3DS
- Some of the above plus GBA and DS for the Wii U
(Keep in mind that GBA VC on the 3DS is actually running on native firmware, much like PS1 Classics on the PSP.)

Nintendo at least developed:
- A Nintendo DS partial emulator for PC (the leaked EnSata)
- A Gameboy Advance emulator for the GameCube (used in an obscure Naruto compilation by Tomy, and a Pokémon GC game, low/medium compatibility)
- A N64, plus NES emulators for the Gamecube (used in the Zelda compilation)
- A NES emulator for the Gameboy Advance (used in the Famicom Classics)

Sakurai said Kid Icarus was first tested on PC and Wii, so... maybe one for the Wii on PC? (because PowerPc architecture is very different from x86, and reprogramming from scratch would be a waste)

Konami developed:
- A NES emulator for PC (they re-released three NES games on PC, with the Nintendo logo removed)

SNK developed a Neo-Geo emulator for their Metal Slug compilations, for PC, PS2, PSP, Wii...
They, along with other developers, also emulated Arcade images for their various re-releases.

Sony developed:
- A PSP emulator for PC (spotted during an E3 show)
- A PS1 "emulator" for the PSP (I don't like this name)
- A PS1 emulator for the PS3 (PSN Classics)
- A PS2 emulator for the PS3 (PSN Classics)

Sega pretty much developed Master System/GameGear/Genesis emulators (minus the Sega CD -laziness- and the X32 -technical issues- and of corse no Saturn -Tengai Makyou IV/Princess Crown PSP were *ports*-) for the PC, DC, PS2, GC, Wii, PS3, XB, XB360, DS, PSP, 3DS, iOS (I'm not talking about the rebuilt engines) and everything that has those Sonic compilations.


Whenever they develop stuff, it's safe to assume they run the test build usually on the console itself and not on PC (the risk is simply too high to include a PC emulator , should a leak happen -and it certainly will-).
That's why dev kits include debug consoles. AND the test build format itself is incompatible with the retail consoles, sometimes fundamentally.


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## Acidflare (Mar 22, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> (Keep in mind that GBA VC on the 3DS is actually running on native firmware, much like PS1 Classics on the PSP.)


 
There is no arm7 in the 3DS how is this so? unless it's given hypervisor access. Then I can see this being possible.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Everything that runs on Virtual Console does so via an emulator.


 

Funny thing is I believe the Snes emulator is based off a one that was released for Mac OS, according to emulator devs in the Wii hacking scene, it didn't even emulate the Super FX chip, which is why we never saw Yoshi's Island or Star Fox on the Virtual Console. The RetroArch developers are the ones who discovered this anomaly.  I also believe Sega used at derivative of Gens (or Kega Fusion, one of the two) when making the Sonic Mega Collection back in 2002.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Funny thing is I believe the Snes emulator is based off a one that was released for Mac OS, according to emulator devs in the Wii hacking scene, it didn't even emulate the Super FX chip, which is why we never saw Yoshi's Island or Star Fox on the Virtual Console. The RetroArch developers are the ones who discovered this anomaly.


That would make sense - it'd probably be the easiest one to port if it was based on microcode since the Wii has a PowerPC CPU just like old Macs used to.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That would make sense - it'd probably be the easiest one to port if it was based on microcode since the Wii has a PowerPC CPU just like old Macs used to.


 

Exactly. That would explain the absence of the Super FX games too, but other co-processors were emulated, S-DD1 (Street Fighter Alpha 2), SA-1 (Super Mario RPG), Cx4 (Megaman X2 and X3), but not Super FX. Another theory is  licensing issues with Argonaut Software since they developed the SuperFX and Super FX2 chips. The Wii can emulate them at full speed as proven via unofficial emulators, like Snes9x Next or Snes9xGx.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Exactly. That would explain the absence of the Super FX games too, but other co-processors were emulated, S-DD1 (Street Fighter Alpha 2), SA-1 (Super Mario RPG), Cx4 (Megaman X2 and X3), but not Super FX. Another theory is licensing issues with Argonaut Software since they developed the SuperFX and Super FX2 chips. The Wii can emulate them at full speed as proven via unofficial emulators, like Snes9x Next or Snes9xGx.


I call shennanigans on that theory - Nintendo is the owner of the patent for both Super FX chips, Argonaut Games only lended a hand in their design.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That would make sense - it'd probably be the easiest one to port if it was based on microcode since the Wii has a PowerPC CPU just like old Macs used to.


But didn't the Transition from ppc to x86/64 for mac happen much after snes emulators were produced and I never saw any emulators for ppc for the snes until the wii but ppc emulators did exist for linux at the time you just needed to compile it yourself to have it. but also I know certain VC releases for N64 are only compatible with certain games and others aren't


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> But didn't the Transition from ppc to x86/64 for mac happen much after snes emulators were produced and I never saw any emulators for ppc for the snes until the wii but ppc emulators did exist for linux at the time you just needed to compile it yourself to have it. but also I know certain VC releases for N64 are only compatible with certain games and others aren't


Macs transitioned from PowerPC to x86/x86_64 recently, after Mac G5 was discontinued in 2006. SNES emulators were available long before that.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I call shennanigans on that theory - Nintendo is the owner of the patent for both Super FX chips, Argonaut Games only lended a hand in their design.


 

Ah, see, I wasn't too sure, but the emulator likely didn't emulate the Super FX chip, but it was easy to port if it was on Mac OS when they used PPC ASM like you said. Ironically, RetroArch Wii emulates Super FX at full speed, so the machine was capable, Nintendo just didn't bother with it.  The paltry number of N64 games (20) is also quite baffling to me, must have used a shitty N64 emulator, they couldn't even emulate the Memory Pak.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Macs transitioned from PowerPC to x86/x86_64 recently, after Mac G5 was discontinued in 2006. SNES emulators were available long before that.


 
I'm a windows/linux guy I don't like mac. who the hell likes to push a button on the keyboard and click the mouse to initiate a right-click context menu
But thank you for the info also any idea's why nintendo cheaped out on mario's 25th birthday and didn't release Super Mario All-Stars+Super Mario World instead I found that really disapointing. good thing I didn't buy the game


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## GHANMI (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> There is no arm7 in the 3DS how is this so? unless it's given hypervisor access. Then I can see this being possible.


 
The 3DS has among the system firmwares one dedicated to DS mode, and another for GBA mode.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> I'm a windows/linux guy I don't like mac. who the hell likes to push a button on the keyboard and click the mouse to initiate a right-click context menu
> But thank you for the info also any idea's why nintendo cheaped out on mario's 25th birthday and didn't release Super Mario All-Stars+Super Mario World instead I found that really disapointing. good thing I didn't buy the game


 

I have that game on my Wii, but not the version they "re-released", but on Snes9x Next lol. Nintendo's emulators are okay for the most part I suppose   They don't put the same amount of effort that other programmers do in their own free time.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> I'm a windows/linux guy I don't like mac. who the hell likes to push a button on the keyboard and click the mouse to initiate a right-click context menu
> 
> But thank you for the info also any idea's why nintendo cheaped out on mario's 25th birthday and didn't release Super Mario All-Stars+Super Mario World instead I found that really disapointing. good thing I didn't buy the game


No clue at all - maybe they just figured they weren't iconic enough.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> The 3DS has among the system firmwares one dedicated to DS mode, and another for GBA mode.


 
How if there is no GBA CPU which is an arm7 DS mode is Arm9



Foxi4 said:


> No clue at all - maybe they just figured they weren't iconic enough.


 
Well we all know from the DS scene that to run Super Mario World an Idle loop is required maybe nintendo couldn't figure that much out


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> How if there is no GBA CPU which is an arm7 DS mode is Arm9


 

So in essence, a virtual machine. Wii does it with GCN and Wii U does it with Wii, same with PS3, I don't think the PS2 is actually emulated fully, but I could be wrong.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> So in essence, a virtual machine. Wii does it with GCN and Wii U does it with Wii, same with PS3, I don't think the PS2 is actually emulated fully, but I could be wrong.


 
Sorry to do this but you are completely wrong here Wii is built on NGC. NGC was codenamed Dolphin Wii was Revolution. WiiU is built again on the same hardware but with more then what was added before and with the NGC parts out. the PS3 phat model doesn't have an Emotion GPU which was the heart of the PS2 so games like Jak and Daxter The Precurssor Legacy won't play well it will but very slowly i've tried it myself but Jak 2 plays no problem the PS2 HD classics have the engine's changed a bit to work for the PS3


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Heh, shows what I know  I'll stop guessing on how virtualization or backwards compat works lol


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#Specifications


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## GHANMI (Mar 23, 2014)

The 3DS has two processors: ARM9 and ARM11. ARM9 deals with DS backwards compatibility and GBA VC titles. It goes without saying it's also used by 3DS games.... while DS has ARM9 and ARM7, and the GBA has only ARM7 (Gameboy B&W/Color had the different Z80 processor). That theory about (ARM7+ARM9) combo being "emulated" by (ARM9+ARM11) is probably correct.

And according to the ones dissecting the 3DS (3dsbrew), it has 4 internal system firmwares: main 3DS one, safe mode 3DS one, TWL (=DSi) one, and AGB (=GBA) one. The last one is needed for the 3DS VC GBA games, thus I wouldn't call it an 'emulator', at least in the sense that the VC on 3DS from the other consoles is the emulator plus rom image, while in the specific case of the 3DS GBA VC it's only the rom image, and the 3DS system itself runs it.

It's a built-in GBA mode. More like POPS is a built-in PS1 mode on the PSP (since it's also included in the firmware)

*I'm quoting myself from somewhere else.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

GHANMI said:


> The 3DS has two processors: ARM9 and ARM11. ARM9 deals with DS backwards compatibility and GBA VC titles. It goes without saying it's also used by 3DS games.... while DS has ARM9 and ARM7, and the GBA has only ARM7 (Gameboy B&W/Color had the different Z80 processor). That theory about (ARM7+ARM9) combo being "emulated" by (ARM9+ARM11) is probably correct.
> 
> And according to the ones dissecting the 3DS (3dsbrew), it has 4 internal system firmwares: main 3DS one, safe mode 3DS one, TWL (=DSi) one, and AGB (=GBA) one. The last one is needed for the 3DS VC GBA games, thus I wouldn't call it an 'emulator', at least in the sense that the VC on 3DS from the other consoles is the emulator plus rom image, while in the specific case of the 3DS GBA VC it's only the rom image, and the 3DS system itself runs it.
> 
> ...


 
hmmm that would make sense I could see it being used with a hypervisor acess to take full capabilities of the hardware like the pop station did and the PS2 Emulator on the CFW'd PS3's


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#Specifications


 

As I said before, I'll further refrain from trying to guess or make assumptions on how backwards compatibility works and leave it at that


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> As I said before, I'll further refrain from trying to guess or make assumptions on how backwards compatibility works and leave it at that


 
Just do some research it's not that hard and is great reading material I find


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## DarkMatterCore (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> The paltry number of N64 games (20) is also quite baffling to me, must have used a shitty N64 emulator, they couldn't even emulate the Memory Pak.


 
Do you mean the Expansion Pak or the Controller Pak? If it is the Expansion Pak, there's Majora's Mask. If it is the Controller Pak, well, you have Mario Kart 64. Both games were released as VC titles on Wii, it's just that no one has been able to inject ROMs in MM due to the ROMC compression.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

DarkMatterCore said:


> Do you mean the Expansion Pak or the Controller Pak? If it is the Expansion Pak, there's Majora's Mask. If it is the Controller Pak, well, you have Mario Kart 64. Both games were released as VC titles on Wii, it's just that no one has been able to inject ROMs in MM due to the ROMC compression.


 

The expansion pack was emulated (Majora's Mask), but the controller pak is what I meant, games that required it weren't on the VC, which is odd since Wii64 emulated it just fine.  Nintendo didn't emulate it in their emulator.


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## Pleng (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that Sega hired the author of the Model2 Emulator to release Daytona (and other games??) on XBox360/PS3 which is why the project kind of died.

Having said that, I've just seen that there was an update on the emulator's home page at the beginning of this year so perhaps it's a false legend?


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## DarkMatterCore (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> The expansion pack was emulated (Majora's Mask), but the controller pak is what I meant, games that required it weren't on the VC, which is odd since Wii64 emulated it just fine. Nintendo didn't emulate it in their emulator.


 
They probably didn't even consider releasing such games. I do remember that back in 2009, Majora's Mask was released after a long gap, partially because a lot of people wanted it. Before that, the VC emulators didn't support the Expansion Pak.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

DarkMatterCore said:


> They probably didn't even consider releasing such games. I do remember that back in 2009, Majora's Mask was released after a long gap, partially because a lot of people wanted it. Before that, the VC emulators didn't support the Expansion Pak.


 

Yeah, speaking of the expansion pak, DK64 only had to use it because Rare couldn't find a game-breaking bug so it was used to circumvent the glitch, but that was never release on the VC despite Nintendo owning the game's rights.  So much wasted potential IMHO.  The N64 emulation was kinda meh I thought.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> Sorry to do this but you are completely wrong here Wii is built on NGC. NGC was codenamed Dolphin Wii was Revolution. WiiU is built again on the same hardware but with more then what was added before and with the NGC parts out. the PS3 phat model doesn't have an Emotion GPU which was the heart of the PS2 so games like Jak and Daxter The Precurssor Legacy won't play well it will but very slowly i've tried it myself but Jak 2 plays no problem the PS2 HD classics have the engine's changed a bit to work for the PS3


The first SKU's of the PS3 feature both the Emotion Engine and the Graphics Synthesizer, however you are correct, it was later removed.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The first SKU's of the PS3 feature both the Emotion Engine and the Graphics Synthesizer, however you are correct, it was later removed.


 

Leaving the less reliable software emulation, I heard a lot of PS2 games looked more blurry/worse. Wasn't the removal due to production costs?


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Leaving the less reliable software emulation, I heard a lot of PS2 games looked more blurry/worse. Wasn't the removal due to production costs?


The colours are a bit washed out, but the CELL performs an admirable job to be honest. Nothing beats the real thing though.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

there must be a way to do RomC compression how did they inject the japanese NGC version of MM into the wad? I see lots of speed runners playing that exact copy


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The first SKU's of the PS3 feature both the Emotion Engine and the Graphics Synthesizer, however you are correct, it was later removed.


 
That is correct I forgot it was available in the first sku set.  


the_randomizer said:


> Leaving the less reliable software emulation, I heard a lot of PS2 games looked more blurry/worse. Wasn't the removal due to production costs?


It depended on the game actually.
the EE and GS chips were also the cause of a lot of YLOD(Melted Soldering from either the GPU or CPU) then it was Black Ops that killed a lot of phat PS3's off the market, Mine died because I played it too much


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> That is correct I forgot it was available in the first sku set.
> 
> It depended on the game actually.
> the EE and GS chips were also the cause of a lot of YLOD(Melted Soldering from either the GPU or CPU) then it was Black Ops that killed a lot of phat PS3's off the market, Mine died because I played it too much


 

That would explain why the newer models never had the YLOD.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> That would explain why the newer models never had the YLOD.


 
don't get it twisted they can still get it but not as easily as a phat model


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> the EE and GS chips were also the cause of a lot of YLOD(Melted Soldering from either the GPU or CPU) then it was Black Ops that killed a lot of phat PS3's off the market, Mine died because I played it too much


I don't see a huge relation between the presence of GS and EE and YLOD's. As far as I know, BGA failure concerned the PS3's GPU, not the PS2 one - they were separare. Unless you mean raising the temperature of the system overall, but I don't think that's a likely scenario seeing that GS and EE were set to idle/turned off when playing PS3 software and when playing PS2 software, the CELL or the PS3's GPU weren't under a lot of strain.


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## trumpet-205 (Mar 23, 2014)

GS and EE chips contribute very little heat to original PS3.

BGA failure occurred on FAT PS3 due to combination of,
* Poor ball soldering
* Poor ventilation design
* Poor thermal paste application
* Inefficient internal power supply unit.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't see a huge relation between the presence of GS and EE and YLOD's. As far as I know, BGA failure concerned the PS3's GPU, not the PS2 one - they were separare. Unless you mean raising the temperature of the system overall, but I don't think that's a likely scenario seeing that GS and EE were set to idle when playing PS3 software and when playing PS2 software, the CELL or the PS3's GPU weren't under a lot of strain.


 
think about people that play multiple games in one sitting going from playing a ps3 game to a ps2 game to watching netflix or crackle or viewing the PS Store back to playing a ps3 game the amount of temperature would be around hot enough for the soldering to crack or melt



trumpet-205 said:


> GS and EE chips contribute very little heat to original PS3.
> 
> BGA failure occurred on FAT PS3 due to combination of,
> * Poor ball soldering
> ...


 
Don't forget fan failures


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## DarkMatterCore (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> there must be a way to do RomC compression how did they inject the japanese NGC version of MM into the wad? I see lots of speed runners playing that exact copy


 
The only program available was made by jurai ages ago, and it can only generate ROMC v1 files. Majora's Mask used ROMC v2. There must be a really good explanation to that, though.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

DarkMatterCore said:


> The only program available was made by jurai ages ago, and it can only generate ROMC v1 files. Majora's Mask used ROMC v2. There must be a really good explanation to that, though.


 
if anyone can find out that would be great we could probably get DK64 to work at that point or would romc v1 work for that?


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## DarkMatterCore (Mar 23, 2014)

I have tested ROMC v1 files with Majora's Mask a lot of times, and they don't work.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

DarkMatterCore said:


> I have tested ROMC v1 files with Majora's Mask a lot of times, and they don't work.


 
have you tried injecting other games besides mm?


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## sporkonomix (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> There is no arm7 in the 3DS how is this so? unless it's given hypervisor access. Then I can see this being possible.


 
Original DS games used both the ARM9 and the ARM7 cores, so the 3DS must either have an ARM7 hiding somewhere or it's virtualizing the cores in the ARM11 and giving them identical limitations to the DS's ARM9 and ARM7. Regardless, there's direct hardware compatibility so it shouldn't be that difficult to pull off.


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## DarkMatterCore (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> have you tried injecting other games besides mm?


 
It's the only VC release compatible with the Expansion Pak, so there really isn't any other one to try with; that's basically the main interest of it. Injection, of course, works in games that do use ROMC v1.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

DarkMatterCore said:


> It's the only VC release compatible with the Expansion Pak, so there really isn't any other one to try with; that's basically the main interest of it. Injection, of course, works in games that do use ROMC v1.


 
I guess i'll have to stick with Not64


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

Acidflare said:


> I guess i'll have to stick with Not64


 
'
Until the alleged Wii64 2.0 comes out, the author stated recently that he's working on it and that it'll be out soon, as stated on the GC Forever forums (where he's an admin too). It has so much potential to slaughter, or at least still be better than what Nintendo did on the VC.


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## eriol33 (Mar 23, 2014)

nice discussions in this thread. I also noticed that sony actually incorporate ps2 emulation in ps3. I wonder if they also used pcsx2 in their program


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## trumpet-205 (Mar 23, 2014)

eriol33 said:


> nice discussions in this thread. I also noticed that sony actually incorporate ps2 emulation in ps3. I wonder if they also used pcsx2 in their program


That's Sony in house emulation, has nothing to do with PCSX2. For the record PCSX2 is a x86 only emulator. Cannot be run on PS3 CELL platform.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 23, 2014)

trumpet-205 said:


> That's Sony in house emulation, has nothing to do with PCSX2. For the record PCSX2 is a x86 only emulator. Cannot be run on PS3 CELL platform.


 

Unless someone was willing to code x86 to PPC/Cell asm, but that would be one helluva an undertaking.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 23, 2014)

sporkonomix said:


> Original DS games used both the ARM9 and the ARM7 cores, so the 3DS must either have an ARM7 hiding somewhere or it's virtualizing the cores in the ARM11 and giving them identical limitations to the DS's ARM9 and ARM7. Regardless, there's direct hardware compatibility so it shouldn't be that difficult to pull off.


I'm not a entirely sure how it plays out, but I do know that there are some discrepancies and the hardware is not 100% cross-compatible. One of the notable problems I came across with NDS binaries on the 3DS is that random pools like to go wonky if they're based on time _(rand() + time.h = trouble, or so it turned out on the 3DS if my memory serves me well)_, but I never really dug into the matter. I'm sure some of our local 3DS developers like Snailface would have more to say about how ARM7 code is handled on the 3DS.


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## Acidflare (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm not a entirely sure how it plays out, but I do know that there are some discrepancies and the hardware is not 100% cross-compatible. One of the notable problems I came across with NDS binaries on the 3DS is that random pools like to go wonky if they're based on time _(rand() + time.h = trouble, or so it turned out on the 3DS if my memory serves me well)_, but I never really dug into the matter. I'm sure some of our local 3DS developers like Snailface would have more to say about how ARM7 code is handled on the 3DS.


Well I know ichifly's gba emulator works in DS mode on the 3ds with a wood r4i gold from r4ids.cn


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