# Nintendo Can't Advance If They Won't Improve their Marketing



## WiiCube_2013 (May 25, 2014)

They did a pretty piss-poor job of advertising Wii U, and even now in 2014, in shops such as HMV/JL in Oxford Street (London) they have very little amount of games to choose from, and to pre-order Smash 4 it's really through GAME or by online retailers (Amazon, Zavvi, TheHut, etc).

As much as I like Nintendo games, the company Nintendo itself is awful when it comes to advertising and releasing their own games to stores that'd be willing to sell it.

In JL they used to have the "Nintendo Corner" which was filled with Wii U games/consoles and 3DS' systems (+ consoles to play full games on) but since 2014 it's been changed to "Disney Store Corner" and sadly that's very disappointing because it was one of the areas that focused on it and it's gone, well, it's on the fifth floor though nowhere near as good.

Hate to say, but Nintendo, you really suck at advertising your own stuff.


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## Gahars (May 25, 2014)

In other news: The sky is blue.

More at 11.


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## Dork (May 25, 2014)

This isn't anything really new.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

Really you don't say?.


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## WiiCube_2013 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> Really you don't say?.


 
People have been saying it but Nintendo continues to not do anything about it unfortunately.


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## Dork (May 25, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> People have been saying it but Nintendo continues to not do anything about it unfortunately.


Then go on Miiverse and complain because that's where Nintendo's staff actively looks.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

I was being sarcastic, but since you didn't get it I'm gonna say this.

Nintendo don't know how hit precisely in terms of business (Marcos maidana). Now if they be like Ubisoft, and not still making the same game every year maybe just maybe they'll get some where. The only way way Nintendo will get somewhere is if they start a new Franchise with the most played genre which is shooters, and open world rpg. Nintendo is the new low it was Microsoft with the Xbox one situation, but since that has changed everyone has there *eyes* on *Steintendo* Get it lol. People can't accept it lol Nintendo needs to buy a 3rdthird party game company or something because this is not going well for them.


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## BlackWizzard17 (May 25, 2014)

Is it really Nintendo or the people$ input (IGN, Machina, Etc). I barley see any ps4 commercials more than is see Wii u comercials and I think I have only seen like 1 xbone commercial, I think advertising is more of an internet thing now. People get hype off these consoles and it becomes big but quite frankly I have not seen any real appealing current gen game that makes the the other systems a system seller. Then again Nintendo could have done way better with their system advertising.


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## Dork (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> Now if they be like Ubisoft, and not still making the same game every year maybe just maybe they'll get some where. The only way way Nintendo will get somewhere is if they start a new Franchise with the most played genre which is shooters, and open world rpg. Nintendo is the new low it was Microsoft with the Xbox one situation, but since that has changed everyone has there *eyes* on *Steintendo* Get it lol.


 
yeah dude definitly nintedo always rehash they need to make a shooter or gtfo :^))


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> yeah dude definitly nintedo always rehash they need to make a shooter or gtfo :^))


Most of their best-selling games are rehashes of rehashes, their last original AAA game was Xenoblade Yawnicles and that was just awful.


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## Dork (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Most of their best-selling games are rehashes of rehashes, their last original AAA game was Xenoblade Yawnicles and that was just awful.


 
Regardless, they still have plenty of first-party titles that can appeal to anyone, and I know you didn't like Xenoblade but it definitely was meant to appeal to RPG lovers. Right now Nintendo's own games are the least of their problems.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Most of their best-selling games are rehashes of rehashes, their last original AAA game was Xenoblade Yawnicles and that was just awful.


 Really? that game was pretty solid. Would you care to explain Foxi4? lol.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> Regardless, they still have plenty of first-party titles that can appeal to anyone, and I know you didn't like Xenoblade but it definitely was meant to appeal to RPG lovers. Right now Nintendo's own games are the least of their problems.


>Implying that I don't like _"RPG's"_
RPG's and JRPG's one of my favourite genres, I just like _good ones_.



6SoulTriox said:


> Really? that game was pretty solid. Would you care to explain Foxi4? lol.


Zero direction, predictible story, stereotypical characters, good 15 minutes of an introduction to hours upon hours of poor pacing and _"a lot of nothing"_ happening, stopped playing after 4 hours due to lack of payoff. It's just _"not fun"_, there were far better JRPG's out at the time, for example Radiant Historia on the DS which I recommend. If I need to play a game for 40 hours to get to the good bits then the game failed at its primary purpose - entertaining the player. Xenoblade's saving grace is the battle system which was innovative and fun, but not enough to keep me interested.


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## tbgtbg (May 25, 2014)

People complain about the marketing, but back around Christmas they had a lot of great commercials running, kids telling their parents about the Wii U, trying to get it to be a family thing, how it's a whole new system not just a Wii, etc.

Lately they've had a lot of really good 2DS commercials, actually made that thing seem appealing, somehow.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> People complain about the marketing, but back around Christmas they had a lot of great commercials running, kids telling their parents about the Wii U, trying to get it to be a family thing, how it's a whole new system not just a Wii, etc.
> 
> Lately they've had a lot of really good 2DS commercials, actually made that thing seem appealing, somehow.


_"Family Gaming"_ is that magical sector of the industry that everybody wants to get into but which doesn't actually exist.


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## Dork (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> >Implying that I don't like _"RPG's"_
> RPG's and JRPG's one of my favourite genres, I just like _good ones_.


 
That snippet wasn't directed at you to insult you I was just saying it filled in for the RPG genre for Nintendo's first-party.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> That snippet wasn't directed at you to insult you I was just saying it filled in for the RPG genre for Nintendo's first-party.


It did, but Nintendo does have other JRPG franchises - there's Golden Sun, Earthbound/Mother, Mario & Luigi etc. - TLoZ could easily be appropriated to an RPG too.


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## CompassNorth (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> >Implying that I don't like _"RPG's"_
> *RPG's and JRPG's one of my favourite genres, I just like good ones.*


 


Foxi4 said:


> >Implying that I don't like _"RPG's"_
> *RPG's and JRPG's one of my favourite genres, I just like good ones.*


 
what are you smoking foxi


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## FAST6191 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> Really? that game was pretty solid. Would you care to explain Foxi4? lol.



Not another xenoblade thread, please.


Back on topic I wonder if marketing could overcome a lack of games and clear demonstration of lack of potential.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> what are you smoking foxi


What? There are good JRPG's out there, they're just few and far between.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> >Implying that I don't like _"RPG's"_
> RPG's and JRPG's one of my favourite genres, I just like _good ones_.
> 
> 
> Zero direction, predictible story, stereotypical characters, good 15 minutes of an introduction to hours upon hours of poor pacing and _"a lot of nothing"_ happening, stopped playing after 4 hours due to lack of payoff. It's just _"not fun"_, there were far better JRPG's out at the time, for example Radiant Historia on the DS which I recommend. If I need to play a game for 40 hours to get to the good bits then the game failed at its primary purpose - entertaining the player. Xenoblade's saving grace is the battle system which was innovative and fun, but not enough to keep me interested.


Yeah, I can kinda agree on what you're saying, but if you think about it they really pull the Not this again term off. The Last story on the Wii was way better than this, but it was kinda what you were saying about Xenoblade Chronicles. let me stop I'm getting off topic lol.


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## tatripp (May 25, 2014)

I think that Nintendo is great at advertising. I think people saw through the gimmicky crap of the Wii U and realized that it sucks.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

tatripp said:


> I think that Nintendo is great at advertising. I think people saw through the gimmicky crap of the Wii U and realized that it sucks.


One word... Ouya



FAST6191 said:


> Not another xenoblade thread, please.
> 
> 
> Back on topic I wonder if marketing could overcome a lack of games and clear demonstration of lack of potential.


 
Yes of course, but that's only if they execute the true meaning of hard work. It seems Nintendo only have two skills, and those are developing games, and consoles. It's seem like they only use there only talents instead of working hard to use additional skill that they could use. you can't rely on a few things, and expect to be there for a long period of time.


It's kinda like a college football player, when your in college it's easy as pie since your good as hell, but as soon you get drafted you have to start all over again, and learn things you never thought you could use since your with the the real professionals now so Nintendo is taking that phase right now, and yes I'm comparing it to football. Back in the day Sony, and Microsoft were still babies in terms of gaming, but not anymore Nintendo is still the little brother in this category without the thing that make them function the brain.


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## FAST6191 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> One word... Ouya



Doesn't that just mean the Wii U was even more of an obvious scam/go nowhere product than the Ouya?


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Doesn't that just mean the Wii U was even more of an obvious scam/go nowhere product than the Ouya?


If you think about yeah, but It's Nintendo so you gotta give it a chance because of their great history. Ouya is just Ouya if anything is up to par with the Ouya console you have to give it benefit of the doubt, but that's only if it has history, and the Wii u is exceptional in that part.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> If you think about yeah, but It's Nintendo so you gotta give it a chance because of their great history. Ouya is just Ouya if anything is up to par with the Ouya console you have to give it benefit of the doubt, but that's only if it has history, and the Wii u is exceptional in that part.


So the Wii U is good because older Nintendo systems are good?

They're really stretching the line by now, the last system they made that met the par was the Gamecube, but it was held back by ridiculous design choices and a terrible release date.

I would go as far as to say that the Wii U is partially _hindered_ by Nintendo's history. People don't go to Nintendo for the best performance, they go to Nintendo for family-friendly entertainment and that image is slowly killing their home consoles.


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## The Catboy (May 25, 2014)

I've always wondered why Nintendo hates advertising so much? I hardly see ads on TV for any of their products and the only time they do is like a week before sales and maybe a few weeks after the release. Not to mention their weak relationships with 3rd party developers. 
Nintendo promised to step up their game, but instead just kept with the same old crap and may have even gotten crappier.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

The Catboy said:


> I've always wondered why Nintendo hates advertising so much? I hardly see ads on TV for any of their products and the only time they do is like a week before sales and maybe a few weeks after the release. Not to mention their weak relationships with 3rd party developers.
> Nintendo promised to step up their game, but instead just kept with the same old crap and may have even gotten crappier.


I think they figured that they could ride the Wii wave... long after the Wii wave had hit shore, receded and disappeared into the depths of the ocean.


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## FAST6191 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> If you think about yeah, but It's Nintendo so you gotta give it a chance because of their great history. Ouya is just Ouya if anything is up to par with the Ouya console you have to give it benefit of the doubt, but that's only if it has history, and the Wii u is exceptional in that part.



I guess I gained the cynical bastard trait somewhere along the way; I tend to make such decisions based upon science and general business logic, both of which Nintendo seem to be failing spectacularly in. Likewise it is not such a stretch to call the Ouya an Android console and Android's recent history is spectacular.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> So the Wii U is good because older Nintendo systems are good?
> 
> They're really stretching the line by now, the last system they made that met the par was the Gamecube, but it was held back by ridiculous design choices and a terrible release date.


The Wii U is good because Nintendo Is known for making good console. The console might not sale as much, but it might be another Dreamcast Which will make it a classic. That's like saying every Pokemon game is gonna suck, but you know for damn sure it's gonna be good because of great history. Just look at Naughty Dog games for PS2, and PS3 there hasn't been any bad game, yet the latest was The last of Us, and that was perfect.


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## Hanafuda (May 25, 2014)

tatripp said:


> I think that Nintendo is great at advertising. I think people saw through the gimmicky crap of the Wii U and realized that it sucks.


 









Well, that's just like your opinion man. Seriously, I'm enjoying the Wii U as far as the system itself goes. Lack of games and poor marketing is a real thing ... calling it Wii U being the first huge mistake. New system, new name dunderheads. They made the same mistake with the 3DS and it took years for it to finally sink in w/ people that it wasn't just a new DS model. But really, this shit here is the real problem:







I have posted my thoughts on the Iwata/Reggie/Mii/Wii disease in other threads, but selling hard to casual gamers resulted in only short-term win, and the sooner they purge the poisonous idea that they can extend that crap the sooner they can get their mojo back. Video games are for young men in a dark basement with a bong at arms' reach. Unfortunately that's not me anymore, but that's who they should be trying to sell to, not granny.


.

.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> The Wii U is good because Nintendo Is known for making good console. The console might not sale, but it might be another Dreamcast. That's like saying every Pokemon game is gonna suck, but you know for damn sure it's gonna be good because of great history. Just look at Naughty Dog games for PS2, and PS3 there hasn't been any bad game yet the latest was The last of Us, and that was perfect.


I don't think history alone makes anything good. The original Game Boy was a fantastic system but the Virtual Boy ended up being a pile of crap that was never adopted and caused users to violently vomit - it was innovative, but not all innovation is necessarily good. History is not enough - there is always a par and you have to meet it to be relevant.


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## Gahars (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> The Wii U is good because Nintendo Is known for making good console. The console might not sale, but it might be another Dreamcast. That's like saying every Pokemon game is gonna suck, but you know for damn sure it's gonna be good because of great history. Just look at Naughty Dog games for PS2, and PS3 there hasn't been any bad game, yet the latest was The last of Us, and that was perfect.


 

Just because a company hasn't made a bad console/game in the past doesn't mean they can't make a bad one now.

Not to say that Nintendo's never made a bad console, of course.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Just because a company hasn't made a bad console/game in the past doesn't mean they can't make a bad one now.
> 
> Not to say that Nintendo's never made a bad console, of course.


 
I'm not saying that I'm just saying that Good companies such as Rockstar, and Naughty dog are not foolish to release a game all of a sudden. They know what gamers want It's a reason why patience is a virtue was invented for a subject of anything.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> I'm not saying that I'm just saying that Good companies such as Rockstar, and Naughty dog are not foolish to release a game all of a sudden. They know what gamers want It's a reason why patience is a virtue was invented for a subject of anything.


Even when you're good in a given field you can still miss the mark by miles, experience takes you far but it doesn't last forever. If you're stuck in your old ways, your experience eventually becomes outdated and irrelevant.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Even when you're good in a given field you can still miss the mark by miles, experience takes you far but it doesn't last forever. If you're stuck in your old ways, your experience eventually becomes outdated and irrelevant.


True, but if it ever *happens* to theses two companies, it's gonna be rare.


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## Qtis (May 25, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Even when you're good in a given field you can still miss the mark by miles, experience takes you far but it doesn't last forever. If you're stuck in your old ways, your experience eventually becomes outdated and irrelevant.


 
Also making the same game again and again has killed quite a few companies in the past (3DO went bankrupt because of this (Might&Magic and Heroes of Might&Magic creators), Guitar Hero was killed by this, Singstar was killed by this (or does someone still buy the game?), etc). Not that the games were bad, they just didn't offer much improvement compared to the previous games.


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## GameWinner (May 25, 2014)

Nintendo just shot themselves in the foot. I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance. 

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about Nintendo's lack of marketing, is not going to want to purchase any 3DS, nor will they purchase any of nintendo's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Nintendo has alienated an entire market with this move.

Nintendo, publicly apologize and market your system or you can kiss your business goodbye.


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## WaryLouka (May 25, 2014)

In case you wondered, everybody know this.


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## emigre (May 25, 2014)

GameWinner said:


> Nintendo just shot themselves in the foot. I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
> 
> What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about Nintendo's lack of marketing, is not going to want to purchase any 3DS, nor will they purchase any of nintendo's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Nintendo has alienated an entire market with this move.
> 
> Nintendo, publicly apologize and market your system or you can kiss your business goodbye.


 

When did we get so low, we would start to steal jokes from Neogaf? We're better than this.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 25, 2014)

http://gbatemp.net/blogs/


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## chavosaur (May 25, 2014)

I'm going to throw this out in every advertisement argument thread. 
I still say Sony has the best Advertisements out of the 3 for their console. 
I always get "Sharing is Caring" stuck in my head after one of their advertisements, and always remember the games they show. 
Top notch. 

As big of an Xbox Fan I am, their advertisements are few and far between and usually just rely on >insert NFL star player here< to play the console as talk about it. 

As for Nintendo, they have to try horrifically hard to first point out that their system IS a new system. In most advertisements I see it's a bunch of kids saying "Wii U is a TOTAL upgrade mom!"
And for a console trying to appeal to core gamers, it's still marketing itself pretty damn hard as a Kids console. Their whole strategy is a mess IMO.


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## FAST6191 (May 25, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> True, but if it ever *happens* to theses two companies [Rockstar and Naughty Dog], it's gonna be rare.


Depending upon the people you speak to GTA 4 and 5 somewhat missed the mark and found themselves eclipsed by Saints Row. Likewise have a look at some of their published titles and things not made by Rockstar North -- it is not all sweetness and light.
Naughty Dog do have some stinkers in their past but that was quite some time ago, so far they do seem to be getting along with things and bailing before it gets too stale.



Qtis said:


> Also making the same game again and again has killed quite a few companies in the past (3DO went bankrupt because of this (Might&Magic and Heroes of Might&Magic creators)


I still hold if they had implemented play by email then they would be around now.


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## Foxi4 (May 25, 2014)

chavosaur said:


> As for Nintendo, they have to try horrifically hard to first point out that their system IS a new system. In most advertisements I see it's a bunch of kids saying "Wii U is a TOTAL upgrade mom!". And for a console trying to appeal to core gamers, it's still marketing itself pretty damn hard as a Kids console. Their whole strategy is a mess IMO.


Yeah, they show a whole lot about what the system is but much less of what it can actually do. The last piece of memorable Wii U advertising I saw was a Pikimin 3 phone booth in Cardiff. That was pretty cool... and a year ago.


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## Social_Outlaw (May 25, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Depending upon the people you speak to GTA 4 and 5 somewhat missed the mark and found themselves eclipsed by Saints Row. Likewise have a look at some of their published titles and things not made by Rockstar North -- it is not all sweetness and light.
> Naughty Dog do have some stinkers in their past but that was quite some time ago, so far they do seem to be getting along with things and bailing before it gets too stale.
> 
> I still hold if they had implemented play by email then they would be around now.


 

Update:Nvm I got it to work.

GTA 4 has sold over 25 million copies, GTA 5 sales are a billion, so what do you mean by eclipsed?, also when I mention history when it came to console it was primarily meant for that I was just using game companies as a example such as Naughty dogs, and Rockstar to get my point across, but I see what you're saying with Game companies.


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## The Catboy (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I think they figured that they could ride the Wii wave... long after the Wii wave had hit shore, receded and disappeared into the depths of the ocean.


 
That could explain to stupid naming of "Wii U," too people just thought it was the same thing as the  Wii and didn't buy it.


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## CompassNorth (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> What? There are good JRPG's out there, they're just few and far between.


jRPG is a regional term for RPGs made in Japan, it's not a genre.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 26, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> Update:Nvm I got it to work.
> 
> GTA 4 has sold over 25 million copies, GTA 5 sales are a billion, so what do you mean by eclipsed?, also when I mention history when it came to console it was primarily meant for that I was just using game companies as a example such as Naughty dogs, and Rockstar to get my point across, but I see what you're saying with Game companies.


 

So 1 in 6 people on the planet own GTA V? I don't think that many people have seen Star Wars.


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## Black-Ice (May 26, 2014)

>Flamebait thread of the week

To be able to market the wii u
It needs something marketable


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## Social_Outlaw (May 26, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> So 1 in 6 people on the planet own GTA V? I don't think that many people have seen Star Wars.


SMH you knew what I meant lol.


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> jRPG is a regional term for RPGs made in Japan, it's not a genre.


It is absolutely a sub-genre of RPG's, JRPG's tackle completely different themes than WRPG's, they look and play differently. WRPG's and JRPG's are all RPG's for better or worse, but they are different enough to be separate entities within the bigger genre.


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## Veho (May 26, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> jRPG is a regional term for RPGs made in Japan, it's not a genre.


JRPGs are distinct enough to be considered their own separate genre. 
Here's a good explanation of the differences (and their origins): 

 


Not all RPGs made in Japan are JRPGs.


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## sporkonomix (May 26, 2014)

I see the Nintendo Hate Train is alive and well.

I agree that the Wii U needs some better games, but assuming they will die is a bit hasty. People've predicted Nintendo's demise since the SNES days, they're simply a company that people like to hate.

I think a lot of the problems with the Wii U tie directly with the economy: people don't have as much earning potential, so they have to make sure every purchase matters. Until Smash, Mario Kart, a new Metroid, Zelda, and possibly something new and exciting hit the Wii U, it's a hard sell. A lot of the market has been riding the FPS and Western style RPGs, which Nintendo really doesn't have any of. That means that the Western market is harder to reach for them. It doesn't help that most of the Western audience cares more about online multiplayer and graphics than anything else these days.

The other problem is Nintendo listened to third parties when they shouldn't have. They complained that they didn't do launches much on Nintendo platforms because Nintendo's games outshone them. So Nintendo partnered with EA and Ubisoft, letting them get a headstart to market, releasing the Wii U before their blockbusters were finished. What happened? Third parties double-crossed Nintendo and didn't release much of anything, leaving people wondering where Nintendo's core franchises were and complaining about the poor ports or remakes of last-gen games.

Nintendo should've done their own thing and let the third parties come to them, as they've done in the past (especially the GBA and DS). They should've had Mario Kart and Smash ready last year, and focused on more franchises than just Mario.

That said, the Wii U is still an interesting console that I'd certainly own if I had more money. I'm hoping to have one this holiday season, since MK and Smash will be out. This E3 is likely to have new Zelda info, too.

The vocal Nintendo Hate Train should go back to what they like instead of bitching about what they don't like. Especially since the kind of people that bitch about Nintendo won't buy their products in the first place.


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## emigre (May 26, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> >Flamebait thread of the week
> 
> To be able to market the wii u
> It needs something marketable


 

Like gaems?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 26, 2014)

sporkonomix said:


> A lot of the market has been riding the FPS and Western style RPGs, which Nintendo really doesn't have any of. That means that the Western market is harder to reach for them. It doesn't help that most of the Western audience cares more about online multiplayer and graphics than anything else these days.


 

Holy shit you do realize that this is never true? You're generalizing your own fucking market and you don't even know how it is.

The western market is diverse. It enjoys FPS games and WRPGs but it'll buy into a ton of different genres. There's also ton of niche genres that still find a footing here. Like Catherine, a thoroughly Japanese game, sold 500K copies. Which isn't the millions of CoD or GTA but is still quite enough sales to show that similar titles have a footing.

Just this whole "western gaming is just FPS" assumption is such bullshit, please stop using it and take your head out from under a fucking rock for once in a blue moon.


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## CompassNorth (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It is absolutely a sub-genre of RPG's


No it's not.
Turn-based RPG, Action RPGs, and strategy RPGs are sub-genres. jRPG and wRPG are regional terms.


Foxi4 said:


> JRPG's tackle completely different themes than WRPG's


So do many games within a genre from the same country. I don't really understand what you're trying to do here.

If this was the case we're going to need lots of names to distinguish a lot of games from each other.
Comparing Duke Nukem 3D to Turok what will you call these games respectively?




Foxi4 said:


> they look and play differently.


jRPGs and wRPGs play differently because jRPGs tend to stay in the turn-based genre and wRPG tend to stay in the Action RPG genre. Both are already established genres and either wRPG and jRPG  developers can make a game of either genre.

And why do people all of a sudden bringing art style into the discussion. Why is art style so special in the RPG genre? Why is it that in any other genre the type of art style a game uses doesn't give it a title from what region the game came from? The same thing can be said for story.


By this logic should Wind Waker have it's own special title despite playing and looking differently than God of War?

And I can keep listing game within the same genre where story, art style, and gameplay are different from other games.

For example people do not use wShooters when talking about First-Person Shooters and jShooters when talking Shoot-em ups




Veho said:


> JRPGs are distinct enough to be considered their own separate genre.
> Here's a good explanation of the differences (and their origins):
> 
> 
> ...




Saw this video a long time ago, disagree with it.
If I remember correctly the guy said that Wizardry came in too late or something to Japan for it to be influential or something along those lines which is completely false. Wizardry is one of the influential games in Japan when it comes to the RPG genre. 

I really do not want to watch the whole series again.


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> _*Snip!*_


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. JRPG's and _"WRPG's" (which is an artificial term that popped up rather recently to signify that the game is not a Japanese-style RPG and follows western standards of cRPG)_ are different from one another sufficiently enough to treat them as separate sub-genres within the bigger RPG genre. The differences range from the style of the game to the actual methods of storytelling and that's just fact. For the same reason we have _"comics" _and _"manga"_ or _"cartoons"_ and _"anime"_.


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## VMM (May 26, 2014)

Hanafuda said:


> Well, that's just like your opinion man. Seriously, I'm enjoying the Wii U as far as the system itself goes. Lack of games and poor marketing is a real thing ...* calling it Wii U being the first huge mistake*. New system, new name dunderheads. *They made the same mistake with the 3DS and it took years for it to finally sink in w/ people that it wasn't just a new DS model.*


 

It isn't the name of the console that makes it hard to sell.
If that was true then what would be of Xbox One?
3DS started to sell when games started appearing for it,
and it didn't took years, by half year it already started selling well.
Right now, WiiU has no games that appeal to non-Nintendo fans.
WiiU lacks a system seller, a game that could bring hardcore gamers over it,
something Nintendo has failed to do since N64 era.


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## FAST6191 (May 26, 2014)

sporkonomix said:


> I see the Nintendo Hate Train is alive and well.
> 
> I agree that the Wii U needs some better games, but assuming they will die is a bit hasty. People've predicted Nintendo's demise since the SNES days,* they're simply a company that people like to hate*.
> 
> ...



*Have any of the game companies been universally greeted with praise and adulation?* MS, Sony, EA, Ubisoft, Square Enix..... all get pounded upon all the time.

_and yet they will buy the PS4bone, despite it also not exactly having a great library, at rates Nintendo and co would kill for?_

I recall many third parties saying Nintendo's hardware, rates for the return, infrastructure and controllers were not great, I do not recall them saying they were outshone.


It is not the 1990's any more, one has to court third party devs and one has to do it hard or flop on your face.​
Either way though thanks for the giggle.


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

VMM said:


> It isn't the name of the console that makes it hard to sell.
> If that was true then what would be of Xbox One?
> 3DS started to sell when games started appearing for it,
> and it didn't took years, by half year it already started selling well.
> ...


Two things contributed to the 3DS's sales boom - the _massive_ price drop which made it affordable in comparison to other mobile gaming solutions _and_ an onslaught of new games. The system's been riding that wave of success ever since and even though you can easily get PSVita deals that are just as good as the 3DS deals, the 3DS reached the level of popularity where it doesn't have to try anymore - it just has the market by the balls.

It doesn't take a degree to think of ways how to improve the Wii U situation at this point. It's not going to beat the PS4 or the Xbox One, it's a no-contest. The Wii U has to build its own niche and it has to build it soon because it's been on the market for 2 years now, in another 2 the hardware will become irrelevant and too poor for developers to care and in 4-5 it's going to be completely irrelevant as at that point people will start expecting a Nintendo next gen to come out soon.


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## VMM (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Two things contributed to the 3DS's sales boom - the _massive_ price drop which made it affordable in comparison to other mobile gaming solutions _and_ an onslaught of new games. The system's been riding that wave of success ever since and even though you can easily get PSVita deals that are just as good as the 3DS deals, the 3DS reached the level of popularity where it doesn't have to try anymore - it just has the market by the balls.
> 
> It doesn't take a degree to think of ways how to improve the Wii U situation at this point. It's not going to beat the PS4 or the Xbox One, it's a no-contest. The Wii U has to build its own niche and it has to build it soon because it's been on the market for 2 years now, in another 2 the hardware will become irrelevant and too poor for developers to care and in 4-5 it's going to be completely irrelevant as at that point people will start expecting a Nintendo next gen to come out soon.


 

I agree with you in most of you said, but my main point was, the name is the least of WiiU problems.
Xbox One also has a terrible and confusing name and is selling just fine.
Poor marketing, lacking of third party support and been vastly underpowered are much more
important factors to WiiU bad sales.

About the niche public WiiU should aim, that's what I disagree with you.
WiiU tried to have a niche public, the same niche public Wii had and made it a success,
the casual public. The problem is WiiU doesn't have the same appeal to casual public,
and there are far cheaper and more appealing options to casual public now such as smartphones and tablets.
It doesn't appeal casual public, nor hardcore gamers, it doesn't have a good quantity of specific genre titles,
to make it a niche console for some genre niches, and it can't gather those niches to WiiU since
they would need third party support for that.


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

VMM said:


> I agree with you in most of you said, but my main point was, the name is the least of WiiU problems.
> Xbox One also has a terrible and confusing name and is selling just fine.
> Poor marketing, lacking of third party support and been vastly underpowered are much more
> important factors to WiiU bad sales.
> ...


I don't mean the casual target audience because that audience is gone - I mean the hardcore Nintendo fans audience. Success in a broader scope would require third party support which the Wii U doesn't have and Nintendo doesn't seem to be keen to court to third party to encourage development, so instead their only option is to appeal to the younger audiences and the Nintendo hardcores - that should rake in at least 30 million sold systems and the company should break even before they release a next gen.


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## VMM (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't mean the casual target audience because that audience is gone - I mean the hardcore Nintendo fans audience. Success in a broader scope would require third party support which the Wii U doesn't have and Nintendo doesn't seem to be keen to court to third party to encourage development, so instead their only option is to appeal to the younger audiences and the Nintendo hardcores - that should rake in at least 30 million sold systems and the company should break even before they release a next gen.


 

Nintendo first party titles usually are kids focused,
making their consoles also kids focused.
Gamecube wasn't underpowered and had great first party support, yet it didn't get even close to 30 mi sales.

For me, they should try to get more third party exclusives, like Bayonetta 2.
If they get exclusivity to a game that appeal to hardcore audiences, they might get quite a boost in sales.


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

VMM said:


> Nintendo first party titles usually are kids focused,
> making their consoles also kids focused.
> Gamecube wasn't underpowered and had great first party support, yet it didn't get even close to 30 mi sales.
> 
> ...


The Gamecube failed because of poor timing and retarded design choices - if Nintendo released the system earlier in the game and offered DVD support like the Xbox and the PS2 did it would've done better in my opinion.

Right now Nintendo's suffering because their reputation is that of a _"magical toy maker"_, not a serious hardware house. By extension people associate their consoles with younger audiences and this is a problem since the average gamer is not a child anymore - it's a guy in his mid-twenties or thirties. The perception of gaming has changed but Nintendo didn't change with it - I'd even argue that they regressed since Nintendo's earlier systems had a large offering of games for more mature audiences.


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## VMM (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The Gamecube failed because of poor timing and retarded design choices - if Nintendo released the system earlier in the game and offered DVD support like the Xbox and the PS2 did it would've done better in my opinion.
> 
> Right now Nintendo's suffering because their reputation is that of a _"magical toy maker"_, not a serious hardware house. By extension people associate their consoles with younger audiences and *this is a problem since the average gamer is not a child anymore - it's a guy in his mid-twenties or thirties*. The perception of gaming has changed but Nintendo didn't change with it - I'd even argue that they regressed since Nintendo's earlier systems had a large offering of games for more mature audiences.


 



Foxi4 said:


> Nintendo doesn't seem to be keen to court to third party to encourage development, *so instead their only option is to appeal to the younger audiences* and the Nintendo hardcores - that should rake in at least 30 million sold systems and the company should break even before they release a next gen.


 

You say that Nintendo is suffering because they have that reputation of "magical toy maker" and that the average gamer is a guy in mid-twenties or thirties,
but you also say Nintendo should focus on younger audiences, isn't that a contradiction? and how would it change anything appealing to younger audiences and Nintendo hardcores? Isn't that basically what they're already doing?


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

VMM said:


> You say that Nintendo is suffering because they have that reputation of "magical toy maker" and that the average gamer is a guy in mid-twenties or thirties,
> but you also say Nintendo should focus on younger audiences, isn't that a contradiction? and how would it change anything appealing to younger audiences and Nintendo hardcores? Isn't that basically what they're already doing?


It's not a contradiction when the Wii U is the subject. You can't market the Wii U as a device for the mid-twenties, mid-thirties gamer because it _doesn't do_ what that kind of a customer wants. It doesn't do multimedia very well since it doesn't support DVD's or BluRays and its specs hold it back so multiplatform releases will be the worst on that system. The Wii U isn't competing at this point - Nintendo's making and effort to _salvage_ it, which is not the same. Their _next_ system should be up-to-par, the Wii U is not and you can't retroactively change that, you can only work with what you've got.


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## VMM (May 26, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's not a contradiction when the Wii U is the subject. You can't market the Wii U as a device for the mid-twenties, mid-thirties gamer because it _doesn't do_ what that kind of a customer wants. It doesn't do multimedia very well since it doesn't support DVD's or BluRays and its specs hold it back so multiplatform releases will be the worst on that system. The Wii U isn't competing at this point - Nintendo's making and effort to _salvage_ it, which is not the same. Their _next_ system should be up-to-par, the Wii U is not and you can't retroactively change that, you can only work with what you've got.


 

You answered my first question just fine, but what about the other questions?
You say they should focus on kids and Nintendo fans, but isn't that what they're already doing?


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## Foxi4 (May 26, 2014)

VMM said:


> You answered my first question just fine, but what about the other questions? You say they should focus on kids and Nintendo fans, but isn't that what they're already doing?


They are, I'm just saying they should double the effort. As of today we've gotten Pikimin 3 and Super Mario World as far as AAA is concerned - I'm not counting New Super Mario Bros. 2 as a full-on title here. X, Mario Kart 8 and Hyrule Warriors are on their way, now they need to release an F-Zero, a Metroid and a Pokemon game and they're set as far as Nintendo fans are concerned. Sure, the system won't have global appeal and sure, first party alone doesn't cut it anymore in this day and age, but that's the least they can do to popularize the system among the audience that they do have - efforts to broaden that audience should come next.


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## CompassNorth (May 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The differences range from the style of the game to the actual methods of storytelling and* that's just fact.*


No it's not.
Games do not get classified by their story, art style, tropes, ect.
If we're honestly going to nickpick everything in the RPG genre and give them more unnecessary sub-genres on the things I mentioned above why does this only apply to RPG games?
What should a jAction-Adventure be? Should they be games like The of Zelda or should they be games like Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe (Does this gets it's own genre due to it's art style?) These games surely do play differently from their Western counterparts such as Assassin's Creed, the Batman Arkham games, and even those games play different from The Last of Us, Uncharted, ect

Games A can be very different from game B within the same genre, but we don't need to give them useless "genres"/titles since games can and will be different from each other



Foxi4 said:


> For the same reason we have _"comics" _and _"manga"_ or _"cartoons"_ and _"anime"_.


I'm not knowledgeable in this subject but storytelling is not the reason at all.
Comic series like Marvel's runaways and Young Avengers would pass of as manga if they followed their art style and format.


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## osirisjem (May 28, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> They did a pretty piss-poor job of advertising Wii U


I don't agree.

The Wii U sucks and the Wii U itself is the worst advertisement.

Advertising will not help the Wii U.  Full stop.

The Wii U was DOA, and more money on advertising will be a cost with no ROI.


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## tbgtbg (May 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> _"Family Gaming"_ is that magical sector of the industry that everybody wants to get into but which doesn't actually exist.



You're right, my bad, I totally forgot games are actually only bought by foul mouthed 12 year olds (and those that are foul mouthed 12 year olds in spirit) in the current century. Guess Nintendo needs a commercial with Mario walking around a dirty city waving a gun while Toadstool dresses like a hoochie and explosions are everywhere. And there's gotta be some GameStop only DLC pushed at the end. Power to the players.


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## FAST6191 (May 28, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> You're right, my bad, I totally forgot games are actually only bought by foul mouthed 12 year olds (and those that are foul mouthed 12 year olds in spirit) in the current century. Guess Nintendo needs a commercial with Mario walking around a dirty city waving a gun while Toadstool dresses like a hoochie and explosions are everywhere. And there's gotta be some GameStop only DLC pushed at the end. Power to the players.




....
http://tubedubber.com/?videoq=http:...sAsjuA7Y#f9DsAsjuA7Y:GQDU-2qMre0:0:100:32:0:1


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## Foxi4 (May 28, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> You're right, my bad, I totally forgot games are actually only bought by foul mouthed 12 year olds (and those that are foul mouthed 12 year olds in spirit) in the current century. Guess Nintendo needs a commercial with Mario walking around a dirty city waving a gun while Toadstool dresses like a hoochie and explosions are everywhere. And there's gotta be some GameStop only DLC pushed at the end. Power to the players.


You don't seem to be familiar with the term "core demographic".


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## Ace Overclocked (May 28, 2014)

Speaking of golden sun and nintendo's rpgs? does anyone think they'll make another one? mayber for 3ds or wiiu. If it's as good as the originals (and not dark dawn) i think it'd be successful


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## sporkonomix (Jun 2, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Holy shit you do realize that this is never true? You're generalizing your own fucking market and you don't even know how it is.
> 
> The western market is diverse. It enjoys FPS games and WRPGs but it'll buy into a ton of different genres. There's also ton of niche genres that still find a footing here. Like Catherine, a thoroughly Japanese game, sold 500K copies. Which isn't the millions of CoD or GTA but is still quite enough sales to show that similar titles have a footing.
> 
> Just this whole "western gaming is just FPS" assumption is such bullshit, please stop using it and take your head out from under a fucking rock for once in a blue moon.


 
Look at the best-selling lists for any platform that *isn't* Nintendo-owned for the US market. MMOs, FPSes, RTSes, and Western RPGs all dominate. One game (however awesome as it seems) selling half a million is hardly a rebuttal, especially when a well-celebrated publisher known for Eastern-style gaming (Atlus) was behind it. Atlus has a devoted following in multiple countries. Had said game not been made (or published) by Atlus, it likely wouldn't have gotten even a quarter-million sales. Why? The vast majority of the Western audience doesn't give a shit if there isn't guns, blood, cursing, and maybe some overt sexism and a breast or two. Surely one can understand why they would not want to be associated with that demographic despite living in the same country.

The most hyped games are shooters or sandbox games (that also feature shooting). Whether you like it or not, the US is a very gun-happy gaming audience and it shows through sales numbers. Sure, there are outliers and exceptions; that's true of any statement. Outside of Nintendo and a few third parties (like Atlus, Namco, and to a lesser extent Capcom and Konami), most of what you'll find are in the genres I listed above or some non-game BS you find on a phone or Facebook.

I generalize the market because that's where it went and where it's mostly stayed ever since Halo, Half-Life, Crysis, Call of Duty, et al took off.

Your aggression reveals a sense of insecurity and/or a desire to prove one's self better than others. The tone's completely unnecessary.


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## Veho (Jun 2, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> Saw this video a long time ago, disagree with it.
> If I remember correctly the guy said that Wizardry came in too late or something to Japan for it to be influential or something along those lines which is completely false. Wizardry is one of the influential games in Japan when it comes to the RPG genre.


The most important point of the video is this: Western RPGs give you more freedom over your character and more freedom in the game world, while Japanese RPGs are more story-oriented and on rails. I'm sure examples can be cherry-picked to the contrary, but compare and contrast Final Fantasy 7 and Fallout and you'll see the main differences.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 2, 2014)

sporkonomix said:


> Look at the best-selling lists for any platform that *isn't* Nintendo-owned for the US market. MMOs, FPSes, RTSes, and Western RPGs all dominate. One game (however awesome as it seems) selling half a million is hardly a rebuttal, especially when a well-celebrated publisher known for Eastern-style gaming (Atlus) was behind it. Atlus has a devoted following in multiple countries. Had said game not been made (or published) by Atlus, it likely wouldn't have gotten even a quarter-million sales. Why? The vast majority of the Western audience doesn't give a shit if there isn't guns, blood, cursing, and maybe some overt sexism and a breast or two. Surely one can understand why they would not want to be associated with that demographic despite living in the same country.
> 
> The most hyped games are shooters or sandbox games (that also feature shooting). Whether you like it or not, the US is a very gun-happy gaming audience and it shows through sales numbers. Sure, there are outliers and exceptions; that's true of any statement. Outside of Nintendo and a few third parties (like Atlus, Namco, and to a lesser extent Capcom and Konami), most of what you'll find are in the genres I listed above or some non-game BS you find on a phone or Facebook.
> 
> ...


 

My point is that shooters are popular, yes, as are sandboxes (MMOs though, really? Anything that isn't WoW and a few more niche ones just end up dying), but to make the Western market out as "ONLY SHOOTERS/SANDBOXES/MMOs (?)/RTS (?)/WRPGs) is highly inaccurate. Not everything needs a million sales to do well, and the market is diverse enough that we get games like Call of Duty all the way to Catherine.

Also your mandatory college Psych 101 course is showing bro.


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## CompassNorth (Jun 3, 2014)

Veho said:


> The most important point of the video is this: Western RPGs give you more freedom over your character and more freedom in the game world, while Japanese RPGs are more story-oriented and on rails. I'm sure examples can be cherry-picked to the contrary, but compare and contrast Final Fantasy 7 and Fallout and you'll see the main differences.


 
But there's still so many things wrong with that viewpoint.

First is again the "Why does this only apply to RPGs / Why don't we nickpick every little thing about other games and give them regional terms and pass them up as genres" thing.
But if you say something like "Well... I just gave you two examples"that's exactly the problem I'm talking about.

There's the "Is my definition of freedom the same as yours" debate.

Anywho I'm going to bring up Wizardry again and this time Etrian Odyssey. As it's known Etrian Odyssey is one of the many Japanese titles that have been influenced by Wizardry. 
Of course Etrian Odyssey and Wizardry have very similar gameplay mechanics due to them being both first-person dungeon crawlers another thing they have similar is that even though they have stories they're not the focus of them so by that definition both games cannot be "jRPGs", but you see these games don't offer the freedom of doing whatever it is you want like stealing from NPCs or murdering friendly NPCs so they can't be "wRPGs" either. So what exactly does that make them?

It's things like these that make the classification of "jRPG" and "wRPG" as "genres" or anything other than regional terms. And again seems like people bring up "in wRPG you can do anything you want!" is just wrong especially in the earlier western RPGs.

And if the answer is "Well that's obvious Etrian Odyssey is a jRPG because it's artstyle" that's wrong because games are not supposed to be classified by their story or artstyle. There's something wrong in saying "Well Rachet and Clank, Jak & Dexter, Spyro, ect can't be classified in the same genre as Tomb Raider, Uncharted, The Last of Us, ect because it has a different art style and it presents it's story differently" 

And as I said before why does this sort of horrendously flawed black and white classification only apply to RPGs? If you're going to use a flawed black and white classification use it for every genre, not just RPGs since it makes no sense just to limit yourself to that genre when games in other genres are diverse. 

There's something more I was going to add but I forgot and and blah blah blah you get the point.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 3, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> But there's still so many things wrong with that viewpoint.
> 
> First is again the "Why does this only apply to RPGs / Why don't we nickpick every little thing about other games and give them regional terms and pass them up as genres" thing.
> But if you say something like "Well... I just gave you two examples"that's exactly the problem I'm talking about.
> ...



Give or take my issues with the term genre as a whole...

We do frequently classify such things along regional lines.

There is a clear delineation between Japanese and Western shmups. Granted this might be more about the move to bullet hell in Japanese shmups and almost death of the concept (possibly moving to twin sticks) in the west. However look at some of the Amiga stuff and the contemporary Japanese stuff.

People have long remarked Japanese first person shooting does not exist, typically in favour of third person (see things like vanquish). Some speculate that such things might be motion sickness related, it goes deeper though.

Platformers have a vastly different feel a lot of the time. I am going to have to consider how I approach examples here as the NES was actually a powerhouse compared to a lot of contemporary devices, even contemporary PCs. Several of such games have gone on to live in Japan though, Lode Runner being one of the more notable to have done this. Mind you go a few years forward and compare something like Earthworm Jim, Toejam and Earl and Zool to the stuff coming out of Japan. 

Horror is an odd one and extends into films as well, however you might have to approach this in a different way as it is not like most of us grew up with Japanese folklore. (it may go deeper as well http://satwcomic.com/anything-but-that ).

Japanese tetris (though more likely TGM) vs Russian and tetris company tetris gets odd, mainly as the tetris company is odd, but suffice it to say there are some very Japanese flavours of tetris and such a thing is recognised among those that are really into their tetris.

However even if it was nominally just what gets called JPRG I am not seeing a) the objection in general and b) the claim there are not such clear cut differences. I will give you that characterless first person dungeoning seems to still be half alive in Japan where outside it is mostly just the occasional kid play acting as their grandparents. Not sure how or if it changes things though.


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## Enchilada (Jun 3, 2014)

Nintendo is old-styled when it comes to marketing, and not just that. I like it but in the same time I don't.
I don't know how things are in other countries, but here most kids prefer Xbox or PS because of shooters and stuff like that. Most of the fans are teenagers or young adults, because of the nostalgia or because they know what a good game is.
So, Nintendo has to attract those 'swag' kids somehow and make them interested in buying their products, because the number of normal kids is going down. They can't really depend on the older audience, they eventually get a job and don't have enough time to play.
And there's the price, I think the Nintendo products are a little overpriced. I live in a quite poor country, where an usual Nintendo game can be a quarter of your monthly salary. I think Nintendo can beat Xbox and PS with cheaper games if they can't do what I said above.


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## Veho (Jun 4, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> It's things like these that make the classification of "jRPG" and "wRPG" as "genres" or anything other than regional terms. And again seems like people bring up "in wRPG you can do anything you want!" is just wrong especially in the earlier western RPGs.
> 
> And as I said before why does this sort of horrendously flawed black and white classification only apply to RPGs? If you're going to use a flawed black and white classification use it for every genre, not just RPGs since it makes no sense just to limit yourself to that genre when games in other genres are diverse.



I didn't know "more freedom" meant "you can do anything and everything" but I gess we're doing this whole "exaggerating everything into extremes" thing now, apparently. 

And we do make distinctions with other genres, when there are games with such differences in gameplay style and mechanics to warrant  separating them into subgenres. You don't clump Thief and Doom together under one single moniker and complain when people call them different names. 

You can't deny fundamental differences in gameplay style between different RPGs. At this point it has nothing to do with the country of origin if that's what you take issue with, since Western studios can make JRPGs and vice versa, it's shorthand for "games that play like Final Fantasy" VS "games that play like Skyrim". 

Or do you really claim the two games play exactly the same, and anyone acknowledging the differences between different types of RPG is imposing a "horrendously flawed black and white classification"?


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 4, 2014)

Enchilada said:


> Nintendo is old-styled when it comes to marketing, and not just that. I like it but in the same time I don't.
> I don't know how things are in other countries, but here most kids prefer Xbox or PS because of shooters and stuff like that. Most of the fans are teenagers or young adults, because of the nostalgia or because they know what a good game is.
> So, Nintendo has to attract those 'swag' kids somehow and make them interested in buying their products, because the number of normal kids is going down. They can't really depend on the older audience, they eventually get a job and don't have enough time to play.
> And there's the price, I think the Nintendo products are a little overpriced. I live in a quite poor country, where an usual Nintendo game can be a quarter of your monthly salary. I think Nintendo can beat Xbox and PS with cheaper games if they can't do what I said above.


 

The thing is Nintendo doesn't NEED that audience, they just need to make a competent system. The Wii base isn't going to carry over, that's basically confirmed at this point, so they need to try to compete with Microsoft and Sony. That means securing third party support but still having a Nintendo edge to it. But instead their system is underpowered, their third party support is lacking, and it already seems like a two-man race between the Xbox One and PS4. Like the first parties help, sure, like Mario Kart 8 is doing pretty well I think, but it's only a blip on the radar compared to consistent releases that happen when you get third and first parties coming together.


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