# [Discussion] Your views on religion.



## Deleted User (Jan 21, 2018)

*Notice: This thread is about religion. This means that there will be contradicting opinions. Because this is the case, some will get frustrated and flustered. In these cases, I advise you not to post until you have collected some thoughts into a reasonable post. I also advise you not to say harmful things regarding religions unless you truly mean them.
*
Before posting, please note that all rules established here and here are not voided in this thread. You must follow all rules, and your post can (and most likely will) be reported if you are violating them.

With constant growth of the disbelief in God (or the belief in no God) and tensions between different religions, religion has constantly become a hot topic. Certain religions have been changing their doctrine to fit modern society to make themselves more appealing. Personally, I am not fond of this approach, because you shouldn't have to change the fundamental prospects of your religion to get somebody to join it. The basis of a religion is the belief in something, but changing those beliefs to make it more appealing just seems wrong -- one could argue it seems that it doesn't make it a true religion.

Anyways, I just want to get your opinion on what a religion and why you do(n't) follow one.

EDIT: Don't be like this 


Spoiler






			
				Bad person in this post. said:
			
		

> MaverickWellington said:
> 
> 
> > I don't remember Jesus being the guy who was supposed to perform miracles for every single person in the world. Can you point out the texts that say that? So far it seems like your issues with religion stem from dumb religious people than it does the religion itself, which is pretty silly.
> ...


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## 330 (Jan 21, 2018)

I don't mind religious people as long as they don't limit other people's freedom.


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## kuwanger (Jan 21, 2018)

Religion, it's one hell of a drug.

In all seriousness..



blujay said:


> Certain religions have been changing their doctrine to fit modern society to make themselves more appealing.



Like it or not, religions have been changing their doctrine since their first inception.  Even those who try to remain as conservative as often are often faced with questions that are difficult, if not impossible, to answer.  Things like nuclear war and nuclear weapons springs to mind.  Having said that, yes, most religions often specifically change their doctrine in spirit to fit modern society, be it 1600s modern, 1700s modern, etc.



blujay said:


> Personally, I am not fond of this approach, because you shouldn't have to change the fundamental prospects of your religion to get somebody to join it.



Nor am I.  I do tend to think that it's somewhat indicative, though, of how much religion actually fails to capture specific issues.  To some degree, religion is an ongoing story of trying to rectify the incongruity between the divine and the vulgar.  If you try to set in stone the rules and the expectations, it becomes a tortured exercise to try to explain things in your religion, or you just have to abandon your religion entirely because at some point it fails to fulfill that part in one's life.



blujay said:


> The basis of a religion is the belief in something, but changing those beliefs to make it more appealing just seems wrong -- one could argue it seems that it doesn't make it a true religion.



This is sort of the paradox of it.  One believes a religion by choice because they agree with the beliefs contained with in.  Hence, people end up writing their own religion.  This is obvious in contradiction to the notion of some sort of absolute God with absolute rules.  Yet which denomination is the correct one, then?  If one tries to mold a church towards what one believes is more correct, is that the act of finding one's faith and trying to lead the sheep* or an act of sacrilege to sanctimoniously redefine the rules to one's own desires?  Personally, I don't have a good answer.  I do know that definitely main religious people are seeking self-recognition more than a desire to find God, and to me that is worse than renounce a religion you don't believe in.

* This is by no means meant as an insult but a description of Jesus' position as Shepard which a church leader tends to take the mantle of.

PS - Obviously I'm speaking almost exclusive in the context of Christianity--a more Evangelical Quaker split, if curious--and can't speak personally about other denominations or religions, really, except that I see the same sorts of splits and the various culmination from a history of man that makes me deeply question any claim to the authenticity of almost all religious beliefs outside those who personally hold them.


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## Tigran (Jan 21, 2018)

I don't mind religion as long as others don't constantly preach it.. or constantly attemp to bring it up in coversation such as "As a christian I...." I mean seriously... how many people would be annoyed if every conversation I entered "As an Atheist..."

Now, I don't care if someone says "Have a blessed day." or "God bless you." or anything like that. That's minor stuff and I accept as them being nice. Honestly if someone said something like "Allah praise you." I wouldn't care either. 

But telling me I'm going to hell for this that or the other... Or ignoring their own books... That's what annoys me about every religion.


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## GhostLatte (Jan 21, 2018)

Maybe because there has yet to be definitive proof that God exists.


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## SAIYAN48 (Jan 21, 2018)

Religion is a mess that has caused more problems than it has solved.


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## Lacius (Jan 21, 2018)

I'm not aware of any reason to think any gods exist, so I don't believe they do. I don't mind people's religious beliefs as long as they're not trying to impose their beliefs onto others.


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## Deleted User (Jan 21, 2018)

XAIXER said:


> Religion is a mess that has caused more problems than it has solved.


Yet if people don't believe in restrictions and therefore believe that their life is to be lived as they would have it be, then they get irresponsible and cause more chaos (generalizing here).


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## DinohScene (Jan 21, 2018)

There's no "god".
I do not believe in any religion.

Religion is the base of a fuck ton of hate on this planet.


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## MiguelinCrafter (Jan 21, 2018)

I hate how religious people take any opportunity they have to bring up god or the bible when you talk to them

And how they instead of saying "goodbye" say "may god bless your day" or some other thing, really annoying if you ask me


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## GhostLatte (Jan 21, 2018)

MiguelinCrafter said:


> I hate how religious people take any opportunity they have to bring up god or the bible when you talk to them
> 
> And how they instead of saying "goodbye" say "may god bless your day" or some other thing, really annoying if you ask me


Better than them telling you to go fuck yourself. I hardly seeing an issue with someone being nice.


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## Deleted User (Jan 21, 2018)

MiguelinCrafter said:


> I hate how religious people take any opportunity they have to bring up god or the bible when you talk to them


There are multiple kinds of religious people. There are those that, as you describe, believe that their responsibility is to bring everybody to what they believe as the truth. There are also those who are observant and know when to bring it up and when to avoid discussing it.

If you are going to generalize at least state so.


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## MiguelinCrafter (Jan 21, 2018)

GhostLatte said:


> Better than them telling you to go fuck yourself. I hardly seeing an issue with someone being nice.



Or they could just give me a simple goodbye



blujay said:


> There are multiple kinds of religious people. There are those that, as you describe, believe that their responsibility is to bring everybody to what they believe as the truth. There are also those who are observant and know when to bring it up and when to avoid discussing it.
> 
> If you are going to generalize at least state so.



Well, excuuuuuse me

Both of you missed the point


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## GhostLatte (Jan 21, 2018)

MiguelinCrafter said:


> Well, excuuuuuse me


What?


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## Deleted User (Jan 21, 2018)

MiguelinCrafter said:


> Well, excuuuuuse me


You generalized, and you are excused.

You are (unreasonably) being offended by somebody being nice. The way they are raised, saying "God bless you" means more than "Goodbye". That is like saying "I hope you get a kiss tonight" is degrading, and you would rather here "Have fun on the date". One means more to the person saying it and it shows that they are involved in your situation.


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## SG854 (Jan 21, 2018)

blujay said:


> *Notice: This thread is about religion. This means that there will be contradicting opinions. Because this is the case, some will get frustrated and flustered. In these cases, I advise you not to post until you have collected some thoughts into a reasonable post. I also advise you not to say harmful things regarding religions unless you truly mean them.
> *
> Before posting, please note that all rules established here and here are not voided in this thread. You must follow all rules, and your post can (and most likely will) be reported if you are violating them.
> 
> ...


Its a Hot topic, its this and that. Always hear people saying that yet I don't see it. Someone says I believe in a religion and someone else says I don't, and thats about it. Theres no fight. Theres no huge argument where friendships are broken. So where in the hell is this coming from? Not around my area at least. People are too busy to give a shit to get into fight over this. If you loose a friendship over crap like this then you are a dumbass, and your friends are fuckin stupid. Not doubting the murders and killings over religion that happened, which is stupid as hell.

I grew up a Catholic and stopped being one in my late teens. Too many contradictions, many religions. There are over 4,200 religions. Which one do I pick? I don't have time to research and learn about all these religions to see which one is the best. God/s, if there are any out there, why don't they just come down and tell us the correct one? These God/s should know if must be difficult for us to figure out the correct religion, especially when we have to rely on ridiculously old text, without any factual evidence to point us to the right one. So they shouldn't get mad at us if we don't worship the right God. Its your damn fault for making your existence so ambiguous.

Its like a gamble basically on choosing the right religion. You have books but they can take you only so far without factual evidence. Pick one and hope if there is a God/s its not one that will punish you for picking the wrong religion. If this/these God/s does then its one of the most fucked up God/s in existence and not one I would want to worship.

So i'm agnostic, maybe there is a God/s, but until there is good evidence, or God/s themselves come down and tell us which is right, I won't waste my time on these religions and worshiping whats possibly a fake God.


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## Xathya (Jan 21, 2018)

relgions should fuckest off and burns. has done none for the humans but cause troubles and prevens sciense. religions is exac as cult and both neds to be outlawes!


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## Zero72463 (Jan 21, 2018)

There is more to religion than believing in god really, the pattern of (almost) all major mainstream religions is that the founders faced a problem, and it needed to be fixed. I do believe in god, some form of god, I think he is a species like us who just simulated us, but then again, that still is god isn't it? What I was saying before about how founders faced problems that needed to be fixed, one example of this is Muhammad (Muslim prophet and founder). Not only did he teach his new beliefs, but didn't forget about Christianity and Judaism. Islam is like an evolution to religion (like most religions), there is nothing wrong with that though.

During his time there was a problem, alcohol consumption and killing babies (if they were girls). If he just straight up said "Guys let's not drink and kill babies anymore.", no one would've listened to him. However, according to the story him being trustworthy back then, if he decided to say he was contacted by god then people would listen to him. Because of this he stopped a lot of harmful things happening back then and fixed problems. Alcohol consumption was worse back. I am sure the other founders most likely had problems they needed to stop and used god to stop them. The point I am making is that religion is here to give us social order, of course now it's not needed with laws and everything. Back then it was very much needed, the effect is still clear today though as some Islamic people (myself included) don't drink. Drinking can be bad for you, not judging you if you do though.

As a side note about terrorist organizations, almost all major religions have had them (unfortunately christianity and islam had some of the worst ones like ISIS and the KKK). Still though that doesn't represent everyone, people need to understand that.

Not only does religion stop us from doing bad things in general, many support groups appear because of religion. While without religion there would still be support groups, the more the merrier. Religion can also teach discipline (hopefully not in a harsh way), it can very well change people. Those are my thoughts about religion, sorry if it was unorganized just putting my thoughts out there.


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## GhostLatte (Jan 21, 2018)

Xathya said:


> relgions should fuckest off and burns. has done none for the humans but cause troubles and prevens sciense. religions is exac as cult and both neds to be outlawes!


A bit sadistic eh?


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## Xathya (Jan 21, 2018)

GhostLatte said:


> A bit sadistic eh?


i thinks not.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

should gives religions free societes a chanc and se what hapens. say byes to terror!~!


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## Deleted User (Jan 21, 2018)

Zero72463 said:


> ~snip~


I really like this.

My religion was founded because the founder was constantly being introduced to new religions, so he went and prayed to God for assistance and from there the religion was founded.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
-off topic snipperoonies-


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## DaniPoo (Jan 21, 2018)

As I am not religious I believe that religion is the consequence of the nature of human kind (always seeking explanations to everything, even things we can not yet understand) and (the difficulty accepting that we might have been wrong).

It's not only in religion that we are stuck on old ideas but also in science.

However, I dont mind religion, as long as it does not hurt anyone.
If you start pushing it onto people against their will or starting to use it to justify hurting/killing/raping then I think you have the wrong idea about your own religion.

People used to offer animals, food and even people to their god/gods.
I don't think many people in the world make human offerings anymore, I think this is because we decided that this is the wrong thing to do.. So why is killin, hurting and raping still justified in some parts of the world?

Following a guide on (how to live and act) that is thousands of years old and basing your laws around it hardly seems like a good idea to me. Again we are human.. We need to accepts change and admit our mistakes if we are to progress.
This is clearly not easy for us.

I think if anything, religion should be something beautiful that conforts you and guides you to be your very best.
If this is your religion then good for you, I have nothing against you and your religion.

I *try* to live by two rules "Treat others as you like to be treated yourself" and "Follow the law".

I hope I have not offended anyone.


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## Zhongtiao1 (Jan 21, 2018)

I'm Christian, but I grew up in a denomination that pretty much told me to not let too many people know  I personally do not like the overly Christian people as they tend to be full of themselves (just my opinion). My denomination uses hymnals and Organs and I was rather insulated. I did not find out that the majority of America does not use hymnals and Organs until I started attending University.

However, I haven't seen any solid evidence that a God somewhere whether it be a Christian, Islamic, Hindu or some other God does not exist. I don't deny Science, I believe that evolution is happening even now. I believe the Big Bang happened. I believe in global warming and the expansion of the galaxy, but there had to be some sort of catalyst to bring everything into motion. To me, that is the Christian God. For all I know, space aliens could have started everything, but I choose to believe in the Christian God.

We know that Jesus was an actual person, I don't believe that everything that is written is 100% truth, but in legends and stories like the Bible, there is always at least a grain of truth. There is record of Paul and Peter dying in Rome, Andrew getting crucified on an X-shaped cross, and Thomas heading to India to teach about God and Jesus. They had to have had something to preach and talk about, otherwise why would they go so far away? They weren't persecuted, they were good, stable Jews.

I won't defend the atrocities that have been committed by Christians throughout the ages (and even now), but there is an endless amount of variation throughout the world of Christianity. If you don't know whether your religious or not, the book _Mere Christianity_ really helps. It was written by C.S. Lewis after he converted to Christianity from Atheism. Even if you hate Christianity and all religions for one reason or another, I recommend you read it to just give you a viewpoint that may surprise you.

Oh, and if your interested, I'm an Asian Studies Major.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 21, 2018)

That time of year again ( https://gbatemp.net/threads/do-you-believe-in-god.405333/ ) huh...

Anyway "Certain religions have been changing their doctrine to fit modern society to make themselves more appealing. Personally, I am not fond of this approach, because you shouldn't have to change the fundamental prospects of your religion to get somebody to join it."

They have been doing it for thousands of years. The Christianisation of Scandinavia being a nice case study, though my personal favourite still has to be rag trees.
If you want to get deep in stuff likely to have conspiracy yelled at you then the plausibility of one Mr Jesus being able to meet John the Baptist is questionable, and leads on to one wondering how much of it was an amalgamation.
The umbrella terms for religions themselves are odd. Someone calling themselves Christian has been around for a while now but the divisions between the Roman Catholics and various protestant movements (see also much of the history of Europe and parts thereof, much of the history of what might be dubbed the Islamic world and parts thereof, Indian history, a fair few notable moments in US history, and the list goes on) makes the umbrella term as a means of self identification tricky (most times you see it before about 1950 then it will tend to mean "my branch").

Going further then why does a religion have to be fixed? I know a lot do (see also something like Quranic Arabic), or have foundational aspects which today fly in the face of what we know about the universe. On the flip side go to the east and religions there blend aspects of whatever new stuff is coming in throughout history (Buddhism's trek across Asia and the Orient being good for this).
I find the fixed thing often leads to the discouragement of challenge and reasoning in certain areas. That I can not abide.

An interesting philosophy I saw the other week was someone attempting to split religion's dogma from religion's societal implications (a sort of religious pragmatism). Normally I would have seen it in the "you only go to church to see what others are doing and drum up business" type things, which are not invalid criticisms, and possibly in the "culturally [blah]" (culturally Jewish and culturally Islamic being where I would see it phrased as such, though the latter can be "apostasy is not well liked in my community so...", and culturally Christian is a somewhat recognised concept even if it is not said as such.

As for me if I was not already obvious then in the words of a great song "Started out with nothing, still got most of it left". I have read all the big books/collections of beliefs of all the major efforts, many of the minor ones too. This mainly as they are rather important from a historical and cultural perspective, occasionally also sociological and legal perspectives.



Tigran said:


> I don't mind religion as long as others don't constantly preach it.. or constantly attemp to bring it up in coversation such as "As a christian I...." I mean seriously... how many people would be annoyed if every conversation I entered "As an Atheist..."


Linguistically it does go back a little way and used to have more commonly used options; poke around a book search with a phrase like "as a humanist" and you can go back quite far, I got some stuff in the late 1700s and 1800s with that.

That said the modern implications and usefulness are such that I am certainly not going to call your dislike of the concept untenable. I have myself also found such things to be the basis of a fallacious argument (commonly argumentum ad populum)


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## Polopop123 (Jan 21, 2018)

As long as you don’t cause harm to others then it’s Gucci


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## VinsCool (Jan 21, 2018)

I'm not a religious person, but I respect other's beliefs.
Personally I think I'm atheist.

However, there are cases of unexplained things, as well as miracles, and also the feeling of sprituality. 
At this point, I often find myself conflicted about the existence any invisible entity, or mystical powers.
That again is mostly superstitions, and as long as we have a reason to believe in something, or have a viewpoint that makes us feel good, I have no reason to disrespect anyone with their beliefs.
If I find myself getting into any religion, I wouldn't try to force it to anyone. Surely I'd preach it, but never force it if a person doesn't believe it.
Of course I'd be always open minded to anything a person could teach me.
Knowledge is power, like they say.

Either way, it's human's nature to have a belief on anything that has no explanation, but could make sense, and I know very well I would do the same.


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## MikaDubbz (Jan 21, 2018)

i have my own complicated belief on what I believe has been happening with life and existence, etc. based on scientific theories including the multiverse, time being relative, and the big bounce (big bang eventually followed by big crunch, eventually followed by another big bang, and repeating infinitely).  Wont go into detail, but what I've found no matter how much I consider I have a grasp on what is happening.  I still ultimately can't dismiss the idea my own theory could still fit into the idea that our very existence could be down to a "higher power" which could be responsible for putting the whole system in motion.  I mean, consider our technology today and what we can do with it, now consider what our computers were capable of only 30 years ago.  Now consider what our computers might be capable of 1000 years from now (should our species not destroy itself).  I don't find it impossible to believe that we'll have artificial intelligence so sophisticated that they truly "think" and question their very existence, in fact I'm pretty sure we're getting to that point very quickly.  Furthermore, I believe our tech will be so strong that we could create simulations of our universe, putting all the elements and formulas in that make up the rules of our existence, perhaps with some tweaks, while further implementing the artificial intelligence within the simulation (think like a super sophisticated version of The Sims).  I find that to be a very real possibility, and it could be made by a bunch of nerds in silicon valley.  And if they wanted to they could mess with that simulation, send messages and fake explanations of existence, but the AI within the simulation would grow to regard these nerds to essentially be their God.  I can absolutely see that happening if our tech continues to evolve as it has.  Eventually those beings in that simulation as they adhere to the formulas of evolution, could also grow so intelligent that they too create a simulation within their simulation, and it could keep going that way infinitely.  So with that in mind, I can't even dismiss the idea that our universe and existence may only be because we're the science fair project of some smart kid, who himself might be in a simulation as well. 

As you can see, I can get lost in thought on this stuff.  My beliefs have grown and evolved in recent years, I used to be hardcore atheist, but the more and more I considered what I believe and how I can't dismiss what I explained here, it became clear to me that something we could consider a "God" could have created this universe, even if as I said, that "God" is just a child at the science fair.  My point ultimately is.  I can't definitively say what's up, and I don't think anyone really can.  As such I say, if you aren't hurting anyone with your ideals, then believe whatever you want if it gives you comfort.  It doesn't have to be true, you just have to believe it could be and it just needs to make sense to you.


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## DarthDub (Jan 21, 2018)

As long as your religion doesn't tell you to kill non-believers, then we're good.


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## SG854 (Jan 21, 2018)

Here's the problem, if there is a God and if its a vengeful one, one that wants us to follow specific rules, then why doesn't this God cut the ambiguity bullshit and just tell us, hey this is the right religion and the correct way to do things. It would be really messed up if your own religion says to follow the right God, follow the correct rules, or else you will go to hell, without guidance besides old text that can be interpreted in many different ways. Why even bother with this religion in the first place? Your God is an asshole, and treating your life like a gamble. Hope you pick the right religion or else its Hell for you.

Interpret Religion However you Want?​Can we interpret religion however we want? This is what people say, there is no wrong interpretation. Your free to see and follow however you want. But is it ok with God? If God wants you to follow specific rules in a certain way, then you can't interpret religion however you want, and have to make sure you interpret it correctly, and follow his rules in the very specific way he wants you to follow them, or else you will piss off your God and he will punish you. So this means there is a wrong and right way to interpret religion, and you better get it right without its help, or your doomed. Sounds like an F'd up God who considers your life nothing more than something to be gambled, without caring enough to help you with guidance. And religious texts isn't enough, without factual evidence, when there are thousands of different religions. 

So the question is, is there a true religion, and if God is real, and if its a religion that will punish you if you don't follow it correctly?


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Jan 21, 2018)

I'm Catholic, I do believe in God. I'm not very religious to be honest, and I don't mind those who don't believe, but I think it gives me a good sense of community and the people are nice.

I don't support using religion as a motive for political gain, or for murder/conquest, or for exclusion. I think religion at its core is a set of beliefs and moral values.

(And since I get this question, I don't think there's anything wrong with people who aren't straight at all, and I support them in every way possible. I'm very against people going after them or believing they're bad in some way).

@blujay, could we maybe get a poll in the thread?


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## Deleted User (Jan 21, 2018)

ThisIsDaAccount said:


> (And since I get this question, I don't think there's anything wrong with people who aren't straight at all, and I support them in every way possible. I'm very against people going after them or believing they're bad in some way).


I am LDS and a common misconception about us is that we hate all non-straight people. We don't, in fact, we have been very open in our support for them. We just don't let them hold religious callings, or the priesthood.

EDIT: The religion is pure, the people are not.


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## osm70 (Jan 21, 2018)

Let me just repost something I said a long time ago:



			
				osm70 said:
			
		

> I had an interesting talk with a Christian. He came to me and started talking.
> 
> Him: Did you pray to God today?
> 
> ...


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## SG854 (Jan 21, 2018)

osm70 said:


> Let me just repost something I said a long time ago:


He could be wrong if your dick was cut off, you look very male like even though you are female, or have some birth defect.
Most likely though you wont using rational logic and how the Human body is.
This is how works, using evidence on how things are to draw educated predictions on how things will be.
We actual have phsycial evidence on the human body compared to religion.

This is like saying how do you know a chicken laying an egg will not give birth to a human.
You can't see whats inside the egg. There might be a human inside. 
So it will be stupid to say a human is inside the egg.


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## brickmii82 (Jan 22, 2018)

“Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things.”-Albert Einstein 

I find this to be the most accurate statement in regards to my views on God. While I believe in Christ’s existence, and believe that he certainly was of Godly nature, that’s because of the way he lived and loved. It has nothing to with rewards in heaven or afterlife. If there is an afterlife, I highly doubt we’d remember anything from this one. 

He simply asked that mankind love without judgment. Instead, Christians have become some of the most self-righteous, judgmental groups to ever exist. 

So for me, I am a pantheistic Christian because I believe the universe(s) are God, and Christ knew humility and how people should treat each other.


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## Ricken (Jan 22, 2018)

I personally am an atheist, and I find believing in a religion to be naive personally.  The origins of humanity, according to holy texts of various religions, sounds like something someone on LSD would gather from a Dr. Seuss book (IMO).  I respect what other people believe though, no reason to bash people for thinking a book/scroll/whatever holds the truths of life.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

Ricken said:


> no reason to bash people for thinking a book/scroll/whatever holds the truths of life.


it probably wasn't intended to, but that came of mad passive aggressive.


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## Ricken (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> it probably wasn't intended to, but that came of mad passive aggressive.


Generally how my personality goes, hahaha
I don't TYPE the stuff INTENDING it to have STRONG TONES, but it just kinda happens when I talk with opinions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## dAVID_ (Jan 22, 2018)

Eh I don't really believe in gods, but as VinsCool mentioned, I am intrigued when things like miracles happen.
Just do your own thing.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

XAIXER said:


> Religion is a mess that has caused more problems than it has solved.



I disagree. Every civilization is built upon a religion which sets laws and morals for its people.
History has shown that when the society becomes lax in its religion, thats when society becomes a mess.
Religion unites the people behind a common way to think and act. In our modern day society we have such a range of beliefs, so much so that it's very disorderly.


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## dAVID_ (Jan 22, 2018)

WiiU said:


> I disagree. Every civilization is built upon a religion which sets laws and morals for its people.
> History has shown that when the society becomes lax in its religion, thats when society becomes a mess.
> Religion unites the people behind a common way to think and act. In our modern day society we have such a range of beliefs, so much so that it's very disorderly.


And this is the argument that begins the flame war of this thread.
Not that I disagree with it.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

dAVID_ said:


> And this is the argument that begins the flame war of this thread.
> Not that I disagree with it.


pls no i don't want that.

i mean, I know it will happen sooner or later but the thread is still young. let it LIIIIIIVE


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## dAVID_ (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> pls no i don't want that.



It's obligatory.


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## slaphappygamer (Jan 22, 2018)

There is a force that is stronger than all of us. We are all bonded through it. You can call the force what you like, but it can not be denied that it exists. The name of this force, for me, is music. Life certainly has a rythum. I see it all the time, not just when your window wipers are in sync with your radio either. I believe the name is not important. Others will fight you to the death to say “no there is only one true name”. We shouldn’t kill over the fact that whatever the name, it’s still a force. May the force be with you.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 22, 2018)

WiiU said:


> History has shown that when the society becomes lax in its religion, thats when society becomes a mess.


That is quite the claim.

Equally might we be living in a time where that does not matter any longer should it have been true?
History has shown that when the society lacks antibiotics, thats when society becomes a host of people suffering bacterial infections.

History has shown that when the society becomes lax in morals, that's when society becomes a mess.
A phrase then is religion is the source of morals in the same way a squirrel is the source of acorns.



brickmii82 said:


> “Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things.”-Albert Einstein
> 
> I find this to be the most accurate statement in regards to my views on God. While I believe in Christ’s existence, and believe that he certainly was of Godly nature, that’s because of the way he lived and loved. It has nothing to with rewards in heaven or afterlife. If there is an afterlife, I highly doubt we’d remember anything from this one.
> 
> ...



A fine quote but the question for me is thousands of years, dozens of translations of works, similes which make no sense any longer, demonstrable corruption in the ranks of those administering the religion and those are all things I can show, understand and replicate. How is it then that the long established religions are not so impossibly warped and with baggage almost unimaginable that I am not better off trying to reach some of my own conclusions? I need not go from scratch either for, if I we are quoting seminal physicists, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." is a thing and I can piece something together from those that wrestled with ideas before me.


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## Tigran (Jan 22, 2018)

dAVID_ said:


> Eh I don't really believe in gods, but as VinsCool mentioned, I am intrigued when things like miracles happen.
> Just do your own thing.



Miracles happening are simply down the numbers. During infinite time/possibilities/factors, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They say a coin has to land on heads or tales, but in very rare cases, when the situation is right.. it can land on it's side.


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## WeedZ (Jan 22, 2018)

Late to the game, not reading all that. Personal beliefs should be just that, personal. Unfortunately most religions ask their disciples to recruit, save, or govern others. Looking at past social impacts of religions, I think *organized* religions should be abolished


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

WeedZ said:


> Late to the game, not reading all that. Personal beliefs should be just that, personal. Unfortunately most religions ask their disciples to recruit, save, or govern others. Looking at past social impacts of religions, I think *organized* religions should be abolished


The issue is that people will be so desperate to find somebody that also has their same beliefs that they will actively search for others, in the end resulting in organized religions again.

However, I will say that religions do feel threatened when other religions are arising, to the point where there are execution orders against religions. Luckily, there has only been one legal execution order for a religion in the United States.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 22, 2018)

How do you also reconcile one man's miracle is another's unmitigated disaster, and if you play for long enough then everybody gets relative miracles and disasters?

“Scientists have calculated that the chances of something so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.” ― Terry Pratchett, Mort.


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## brickmii82 (Jan 22, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> That is quite the claim.
> 
> Equally might we be living in a time where that does not matter any longer should it have been true?
> History has shown that when the society lacks antibiotics, thats when society becomes a host of people suffering bacterial infections.
> ...


Bingo. I can’t really stand with the modern Christian Church, and nothing else seems to make sense to me as far as “God” is concerned, other than love and consciousness.

My evidence for love being god, is that it typically defies any natural law because you tend to go against your survival instincts in its interests. Whether for a spouse/lover or for your children, or those you’ve come to love, you’ll often put them above you’re own interests which is the only steadily displayed case of forcibly violating natural laws.

My evidence for the universe(s) being god, is us. We are conscious, we were born of the universe, therefore on some level the universe is conscious.

While the universe is God, it still has its set of rules it follows. One of which being that life can choose, even if only out of necessity. The fish chooses the sea, as it has to live in water. It could theoretically hop out, but it will die. In that fashion people can choose evil, and do evil. But God is not to blame as choice is always there for that which is conscious. The universe(God)will not violate its own laws. We do though. People.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> modern Christian Church,


What defines the modern Christian church? Christianity had many, many denominations. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, just to name a few.


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## WeedZ (Jan 22, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> Bingo. I can’t really stand with the modern Christian Church, and nothing else seems to make sense to me as far as “God” is concerned, other than love and consciousness.
> 
> My evidence for love being god, is that it typically defies any natural law because you tend to go against your survival instincts in its interests. Whether for a spouse/lover or for your children, or those you’ve come to love, you’ll often put them above you’re own interests which is the only steadily displayed case of forcibly violating natural laws.
> 
> ...


You ever looked into the law of one? It's a philosophy that everything in the universe is one and we all share a consciousness on some level. Sounds very familiar to what you describe here, and probably the closest to my personal beliefs.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 22, 2018)

Love, or indeed familial obligation overriding some aspect of survival instinct, seems like it can be explained evolutionarily (grandmother effect being a good jumping off point). Similarly love/sex drive would appear to have basic evolutionary explanations (food is rare and hard to come by.

Also to be a pedant. Sentience, sapience or consciousness? Consciousness is arguably the lowest tier on the rung. Birds are conscious in the eyes of most and that would mean if consciousness is your baseline we have to consider what brood parasites might be.



blujay said:


> What defines the modern Christian church? Christianity had many, many denominations. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, just to name a few.


A valid question, or at least part of the thing I contemplated with definitions earlier.

That said are some of those denominations?
Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witness colour way outside the lines, have whole new books and do more besides.
Most of the rest of those have some serious differences but are bound by many of the same concepts. If the above two are just denominations does that also mean Islam is one as the bible is considered a holy book within it and Jesus a prophet.


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## Xzi (Jan 22, 2018)

IMO society should've moved on from religion as we know it by now.  All it causes is tribalism and ignorance when you've got 2000+ year-old documents dictating how people should live in 2018.  I'm also of the opinion that religion makes people easier to manipulate and easier to con, it prevents a lot of critical thinking skills from developing.  Especially when you're raised from a young age to be part of one religion.


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## brickmii82 (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> What defines the modern Christian church? Christianity had many, many denominations. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, just to name a few.


Any that organize beyond a grassroots level imo. Christ was a vagabond. He never wanted a home on earth. He claimed his home was Heaven. I personally believe, that he knew that institutions breeded corruption, therefore he preferred to teach at a local level and not beyond. Person to person. Personal relationship between student and teacher.

Then you have many churches that blatantly take his words and ignore them. “He who is without sin cast first stone.” “Who’s face is on the coin? Caesars? Give to Caesar what is Caesars and God what is Gods.”..... which is love. That’s it. “Above all, love the lord thy God, and thy neighbor as thyself.”

How are these reflected in most Christian churches these days? 



WeedZ said:


> You ever looked into the law of one? It's a philosophy that everything in the universe is one and we all share a consciousness on some level. Sounds very familiar to what you describe here, and probably the closest to my personal beliefs.


No I haven’t, I will though for sure. It’s just a result of pondering these questions again and again. Faith has to be challenged, otherwise it’s not really faith but bias.


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## qqq1 (Jan 22, 2018)

My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> How are these reflected in most Christian churches these days?


The issue in the Churches is due to them attempting to be appealing to those who want to live in the modern world.

Let's take a look at LGBT really quick. The only two churches I have seen actively open up and be accepting of LGBT are Catholicism and LDS. Both are teaching that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that anything else is sinful. But they don't ridicule. They try to help that person back on the pathway. Both churches do this, but their disciples aren't as good as the church.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



qqq1 said:


> My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.


So, how did you come to that conclusion? (a genuine question)


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

i think alot of religions are pretty stupid *cough* Catholics and Scientologists *cough cough*
but i also think some stuff like Buddhism is pretty decent
but even though to alot of ppl i sound like a atheist because im constantly talking down about religion when its brought up im actually religious
but my religion is extremely small (only 6 followers of it) and its very depressing if you actually think about our beliefs


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## Tigran (Jan 22, 2018)

WeedZ said:


> Late to the game, not reading all that. Personal beliefs should be just that, personal. Unfortunately most religions ask their disciples to recruit, save, or govern others. Looking at past social impacts of religions, I think *organized* religions should be abolished



Well.. thats one of the amusing things is, for christians, according to the bible, there should be no churches, no preaching to others. And this comes from the bible directly. 

Matthew 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." 

Matthew 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."


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## WeedZ (Jan 22, 2018)

qqq1 said:


> My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.


I absolutely agree with the rules of the earth. As a philosophy, Satanism is very ethical.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

qqq1 said:


> My religion is Satanism. I read the bible when I was about 14 (a while ago now) and found I already was one.


satanism is actually a pretty cool religion
unless your talking about anti god satanism


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

Eix said:


> Catholics and Scientologists


How are catholics on the same level of scientologists?



Eix said:


> but even though to alot of ppl i sound like a atheist because im constantly talking down about religion when its brought up im actually religious
> but my religion is extremely small (only 6 followers of it) and its very depressing if you actually think about our beliefs


Mind I ask, what is this religion?


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## brickmii82 (Jan 22, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Love, or indeed familial obligation overriding some aspect of survival instinct, seems like it can be explained evolutionarily (grandmother effect being a good jumping off point). Similarly love/sex drive would appear to have basic evolutionary explanations (food is rare and hard to come by.
> 
> Also to be a pedant. Sentience, sapience or consciousness? Consciousness is arguably the lowest tier on the rung. Birds are conscious in the eyes of most and that would mean if consciousness is your baseline we have to consider what brood parasites might be.
> 
> ...


As far as love, why do we often witness creatures including ourselves, giving up mentioned food while the belly is empty? There is no guarantee more will be found. Yet we/they will give it to unrelated creatures in spite of the lack of reason to. 

For consciousness, in my eyes there really isn’t a question about the universe(s) being God. The question becomes, is it conscious and on what level? I believe it is and it’s on a higher plane than humanly fathomable.


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## Tigran (Jan 22, 2018)

Eix said:


> satanism is actually a pretty cool religion
> unless your talking about anti god satanism



I just find it interesting how much "Anti-god Satan looks a lot like Pan.. and other gods of nature and good."


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> How are catholics on the same level of scientologists?
> 
> 
> Mind I ask, what is this religion?


Catholicism just makes me cringe
and Scientology is just weird

and my religion is K-ism
i doubt you will find anything on it since it was a tiny local thing


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

Tigran said:


> Well.. thats one of the amusing things is, for christians, according to the bible, there should be no churches, no preaching to others. And this comes from the bible directly.
> 
> Matthew 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."
> 
> Matthew 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."


Maybe this is saying you need to have a personal relationship with God? Just a thought. If I go into my room every night to pray, does that mean I should keep that to myself and none else in the world should be able to pray alone? I can tell you there is a different feeling when praying in a public setting versus one on one with God.


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## Tigran (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> Maybe this is saying you need to have a personal relationship with God? Just a thought. If I go into my room every night to pray, does that mean I should keep that to myself and none else in the world should be able to pray alone? I can tell you there is a different feeling when praying in a public setting versus one on one with God.



While I don't think it honestly means "Pray by yourself all the time." it -is- in direct opposition to the groups who pray loudly in restraints or go to.. well... church especially megachurches. 

I seriously doubt it's talking about a family prayer or lowering your head before a meal. But it basically means don't preach to people.. in every sense of the world there.


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## qqq1 (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> So, how did you come to that conclusion? (a genuine question)



I had been a Christian and gone to church when I was younger just because I thought that's what you were supposed to do. Even then I didn't believe any of the stuff they were telling me. I got the Satanic bible thinking it would be some cool evil stuff to read about and found out it reflected me and my views perfectly. It might not have been the fun read I was looking for but it certainly helped me discover myself.



Eix said:


> satanism is actually a pretty cool religion
> unless your talking about anti god satanism



The worshiping of Satan from the Christian mythology is actually just Christianity. Only a Christian believes in a real Satan to be able to worship him.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witness colour way outside the lines, have whole new books and do more besides.
> Most of the rest of those have some serious differences but are bound by many of the same concepts. If the above two are just denominations does that also mean Islam is one as the bible is considered a holy book within it and Jesus a prophet.


Being a Latter Day Saint myself, I can assure you we are Christians. I cannot speak for Jehovah's Witnesses, however.
Christians believe that Christ was the literal son of God. That he was conceived in the body of a virgin by the holy spirit. That is different than being a prophet. That means that Islam and Judaisim are not subsets of Christianity. In fact, Judaism is separate from Islam because Islam believes that Ishmael is supposed to be the birthright child and trace their lineage through him, while Judaism traces it through Issac (who according to the Torah/Old Testament is the birthright child). Christianity is a branch of Judaism because Christ was a Jew, as well as his original followers.

EDIT: A better explanation is that Christ's disciples believe that he is the Messiah. The one that was prophesied to come. So, by that logic, Christianity is just Judaism with one modified doctrine.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

qqq1 said:


> Only a Christian believes in a real Satan to be able to worship him.


*visibly shaking with confusion*
theres more forms of satanism that dont even involve satan though


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm indifferent. I can't say I follow a specific religion but I also can't say I'm atheist. There are ideologies from most, if not all religions that I find fascinating and loosely follow. I will say that I can't stand the division caused by the various religious followings. Catholicism.. Christianity.. Hinduism... Buddhism (can this really be called a religion?)... They share some similar concepts, but all focus on the differences.


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## qqq1 (Jan 22, 2018)

Eix said:


> *visibly shaking with confusion*
> theres more forms of satanism that dont even involve satan though



There is Satanism as founded by Lavey, and there are Christians who worship the Christian devil. Yes, there are other groups *cough cough Satanic Temple cough* that throw out a bunch of stupid claims and don't really represent anything but they are not Satanism.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Hinduism... Buddhism (can this really be called a religion?)..


Well, Buddha was a Hindu, and Buddhism and Hinduism share very similar beliefs about afterlife. Buddhism is an atheistic religion.


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## RustInPeace (Jan 22, 2018)

Quoting Ricky Gervais, making my response simple...

"Thanks to God for making me an atheist."


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## FAST6191 (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> Being a Latter Day Saint myself, I can assure you we are Christians. I cannot speak for Jehovah's Witnesses, however.
> Christians believe that Christ was the literal son of God. That he was conceived in the body of a virgin by the holy spirit. That is different than being a prophet. That means that Islam and Judaisim are not subsets of Christianity. In fact, Judaism is separate from Islam because Islam believes that Ishmael is supposed to be the birthright child and trace their lineage through him, while Judaism traces it through Issac (who according to the Torah/Old Testament is the birthright child). Christianity is a branch of Judaism because Christ was a Jew, as well as his original followers.


I have read the LDS books, some of the other spinoffs as well, and find myself generally aware of proceedings there* (going back a fair while various family were members, some still are). Does not function like any of the other setups I have seen -- Roman Catholicism and the various flavours of Protestantism may have some fundamental disagreements (transubstantiation is always a good time there) but to the casual outside observer** would appear broadly similar (the biggest differences you will get reported back would be in terms of musical style favoured) in terms of local structure. I doubt anybody would say the same about LDS and the related movements. Spin it another way a Catholic could wander into a Anglican service and probably follow along well enough, do it for a LDS one and at best it is one of those "preacher is relating something to the modern world moments" (though given the phrasing maybe going through old papal edicts or something). I can do something similar for the first part for Islam between the major sects save for modern Sufism to relate them together.
I know LDS like to say they Christian and this would probably fall under claim what you want to claim but we may be operating under different definitions, especially if we are discussing the word denomination as was originally started with. Some in the past have claimed I am denying them their religion which is a) hard to do and b) not true from where I sit; have Jesus as a/the fundamental character, the bible (though which translation could get fun) as a holy book, and believe Jesus was a magic righteous dude if you want.

"Christians believe that Christ was the literal son of God. That he was conceived in the body of a virgin by the holy spirit. That is different than being a prophet."
If the former are true then the latter would presumably follow, however I don't know I can get to the former.
Right from the start (or at least living memory of the start of it all) you have the gnostic sects (a bit different to modern takes but went along the lines of "this bible lark, not bad advice, let's run with it"). More modernly you have the literalist vs liberalist either debate or spectrum (or higher than 3 dimensional graph for the really fun stuff) wherein one could conceivably follow a morality from the bible, consider Jesus a very important historical figure (perhaps no different to me studying the writings of Sun Tzu) and creator/leader of the faith, and believe none of the supernatural stuff.

*others reading the formation is taken care of 17.40 or so of the video below (or watch the whole thing as it is good stuff), current setup and practice we can go elsewhere for. If you want to read the extra works then it is online https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng


**someone that might not necessarily know the titles, the difference between a lectern and a pulpit and all the other jazz I got to do as part of high school religious studies but knows enough to compare a book/play/film.

I would not have placed Judaism as a subset, indeed I avoided mentioned it in that for just that reason. It predates it and does not seem to recognise Jesus in any real capacity. From their perspective it could just be someone running around doing a remix, one that got surprisingly popular and even spawned a few remixes of its own.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> *others reading the formation is taken care of 17.40 or so of the video below (or watch the whole thing as it is good stuff), current setup and practice we can go elsewhere for. If you want to read the extra works then it is online https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng


Like all stories, this one is biased. In fact, I laugh at it.
In the Doctrine and Covenants (another book that Mormons study), Joseph describes what was in the lost 116 pages. It was just the Book of Lehi, which contained mostly information regarding Lehi's heritage. God knew that Joseph would lose these pages, and for that reason he had Lehi write them. We do not know all that was on those plates, and Joseph describes (I can't remember the exact verse right now) the most important things to get out of that. Those 116 pages being the basis of an argument is silly, as that was more of a learning experience for Joseph than anything else. There are other times when things were not right in Joseph's home, where there was tension between him and his family. Martin Harris recounts that after this event, Joseph could not translate, and it was only after he repented that he was able to continue the translation.

He also failed to mention the 3 witnesses who were granted the permission to flip through the pages, as well as the 8 witnesses given the permission to view the plates. He also fails to mention the story of Joseph telling one of the twelve apostles (who by the way was extremely fat) that there would be a time when bullets would be flying around him and he would not be hit. This was in Carthage Jail where Joseph was assassinated.

There are a plethora of anti-Mormon arguments on the internet, when boiled down can be thwarted given enough time. However, perhaps the most overwhelming evidence of all can only be found by the person arguing against the church. At the end of the book of Mormon, Moroni invites those who have read the book with honest intent to pray and ask God if the book is true. There is a story of a very, very religious Catholic preacher who found the Book of Mormon while walking down the street in New York. He preceded to read the book and at the end, prayed asking for knowledge of the books trueness. He was overcome by a feeling of warmth and love, and continued to preach using the Book of Mormon as well as the Bible.

Also, if Joseph made up the Book of Mormon, then how would you explain all of the subtle comparisons between its time as well as the time of the Bible? Unless Joseph was a biblical genius at the age of 14, there is no possible way he would have been able make this up.

Of course, the Mormon religion relies on faith, and I am going to be real here, the confirmation of the church is true, but you have to be the one to experience it. After that, it takes a lot of prying to separate you from the Church.


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## gnmmarechal (Jan 22, 2018)

Personally, I find religion not to have a place in a modern society.


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

Xathya said:


> relgions should fuckest off and burns. has done none for the humans but cause troubles and prevens sciense. religions is exac as cult and both neds to be outlawes!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître
Catholic priest, proposed the big bang

https://www.csmonitor.com/Technolog...d-the-Church-What-the-history-books-don-t-say
Copernicus. Christian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton
Isaac Newton. Apparently a bit of an oddball kind of Christian but still a religious man nonetheless.

I wish atheists would fuck off with this "religious people contribute nothing to science" bullshit when the backbone of our science -- both laws and theories -- was founded by religious people. Especially when the people critical of said religious people can barely formulate a legible sentence.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



blujay said:


> Maybe this is saying you need to have a personal relationship with God? Just a thought. If I go into my room every night to pray, does that mean I should keep that to myself and none else in the world should be able to pray alone? I can tell you there is a different feeling when praying in a public setting versus one on one with God.


I think what it's saying is that those who use the faith to get attention rather than to unite people in faith will be left with what they have, whereas those who maintain that relationship and take the lessons from church with them to home, and maintain that faith will be rewarded. Who knows, it could mean something entirely. Maybe the line was added by some angry translator who hated the pastor by his street. There's been a lot of mucking with the religious texts over the years and it's why it's difficult for me to trust a lot of bible translations, especially when people will throw in words like "homosexual" that didn't exist until a hundred or so years ago yet are quoted like they're infallible.


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## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

Oh an intresting thread!
I'm very much against all forms of religion. For me, religion is just a powertool, a tool to brainwash people, a tool to force people out of money.
The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people.


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## Windowlicker (Jan 22, 2018)

Useless and sometimes dangerous, but I won't shove atheism down anyone's throat.


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## astrangeone (Jan 22, 2018)

Honestly?  I'm more of an atheist than anything else.  People who use religion as a means of excluding people just need a kick in the head.  That said, some religious people mean no harm, but logically religion is scared of people who are different.  And there are extremes in everything.

Christians - mostly harmless, but still require tithing money to the church.  No thanks, and they seem to be terrified of any relationship that isn't a man + woman.  Also, so many different flavours of Christian and they all claim to being the "right one".  Which is it?  Sheesh.  Also contains the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, which seem to focus on "spreading the word".  And contains a few sects that focus on creating new life - the Duggars are a (in)famous example.

Islam - I spent time reading their holy books, and it's less "Old Testament" than any flavour of Christian.  It's still another POV on Christian mythology.  I really don't get why Islam/Christians are at each other's throats over ideas.  It's like new Star Wars fans versus the ones who loved the old Star Wars franchises.  It doesn't make a lick of sense - both versions are so similar, and hell, even the Koran has Jesus as a prophet...

Buddist - I only knew of one Buddist growing up, but had a lot of activities in a local buddist temple.  They were more welcoming from the start with no leading with religion first.  They also didn't seem as fast to try to "spread" their religion/beliefs, but still was okay with other people.

Jewish - There's a huge Orthodox Jew community in my hometown.  It's very serious and very solemn.  They seem to be insulated from the world and even have their own dress/hat shops in the area.  From what I've experienced, these guys don't bother anyone, preferring to solve their own problems in their own ways.  They are still okay in my book, but it terrifies me that there could be abuse in the community as well....

Other "many Gods" religions - These include Hindi beliefs and some Chinese beliefs as well.  These are more harmless as the main point isn't to convert people, just to try to get the believers to and from day to day activities...

Also, some atheists are horrible people who are constantly in their own bubble as well.  What was the saying "If you keep on running into assholes, maybe you are the asshole..."


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Oh an intresting thread!
> I'm very much against all forms of religion. For me, religion is just a powertool, a tool to brainwash people, a tool to force people out of money.
> The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people.


*pushes up glasses, adjusts bowler hat [WHICH IS NOT A FEDORA STOP OWNING ME CHRISTIANUTUBER2003]*
heh, dum religion people....didnt u no? bad things happen, so relgion r false!!!

This has been like the primary go-to argument of clowns and I've never understood it. Do any religious texts for the major religions say that their deity is supposed to be a super hero who saved literally everyone and prevents nothing bad from happening? I don't think I've read that anywhere but people seem to keep arguing points against such a non-existent line.


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

religion is shit


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> religion is shit


Oh yeah? And why is that?


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Oh yeah? And why is that?


because you are believing in things that does not exists
science explains everything


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## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> This has been like the primary go-to argument of clowns and I've never understood it. Do any religious texts for the major religions say that their deity is supposed to be a super hero who saved literally everyone and prevents nothing bad from happening?



I don't know man, Christians really have a fetish with a guy trying to save everyone. Turning water in to wine, walking on water, respawning a few days after death etc. Kind of sounds like a superhero no?


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> I don't know man, Christians really have a fetish with a guy trying to save everyone. Turning water in to wine, walking on water, respawning a few days after death etc. Kind of sounds like a superhero no?


I don't remember Jesus being the guy who was supposed to perform miracles for every single person in the world. Can you point out the texts that say that? So far it seems like your issues with religion stem from dumb religious people than it does the religion itself, which is pretty silly.



CoinKillerL said:


> because you are believing in things that does not exists
> science explains everything


Prove to me you objectively exist. I'll wait.
Also Christians have contributed a lot to science there bud. Check out some of the links in this video.


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> I don't remember Jesus being the guy who was supposed to perform miracles for every single person in the world. Can you point out the texts that say that? So far it seems like your issues with religion stem from dumb religious people than it does the religion itself, which is pretty silly.
> 
> 
> Prove to me you objectively exist. I'll wait.
> Also Christians have contributed a lot to science there bud. Check out some of the links in this video.



u mad bro?


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> u mad bro?


Not at all, I asked you a question and you've failed to answer it. I thought science explained everything? Is there a problem?


----------



## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> I don't remember Jesus being the guy who was supposed to perform miracles for every single person in the world. Can you point out the texts that say that? So far it seems like your issues with religion stem from dumb religious people than it does the religion itself, which is pretty silly.


Not dumb people but ignorante people. He also did a miracle in the world, he died for our sins right? That's pretty miracle to say the least. 

Also this quote kind of fits for a reason



> The Pharisees came and began to argue with him, asking him for a sign from heaven, to test him. 12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to this generation


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> u mad bro?


I would like to take a moment here and quote this and put it in the OP to show how stupid you are. The best comeback you have to a reasonable argument is a meme that died years ago because you can't defend yourself. 

Science can't explain everything (not yet anyways). There are some things that we just don't know.


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Not at all, I asked you a question and you've failed to answer it. I thought science explained everything? Is there a problem?


if i don't exist,i can't post on gbatemp


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## Nerdtendo (Jan 22, 2018)

As many people know. I am a devout Christian. In regards to religion, I dislike what it stands for. That may come as a surprise but let me explain. Religion throughout the ages has been about following rituals to appease a god(s) and more importantly, avoiding Hell. Christianity in it's purest form is about love. You form a bond with God, not so you can get to heaven, but because you want to be in that relationship with a God who loves you and will hold on to you. The thing with Christianity is that most people tend to pick and choose what to believe from the Bible (which is wrong). Some "Christians" think they should love God and hate other people which is very incorrect. That's why I'm hesitant to describe myself as "religious". Christianity is about love and that's why I'm part of "the Lord's army" (see: common Sunday School songs).


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> because you are believing in things that does not exists
> science explains everything


This is not true.

There is a lot that science does not explain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_unsolved_problems

Your blind faith in science is just as misguided as blind faith in god.

Now I'm no theist myself, but you have to look at things objectively. There is a lot that no one can explain.


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> if i don't exist,i can't post on gbatemp


https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126387
Forum bots can exist. Now prove to me that you are a conscious human being that exists.


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> I would like to take a moment here and quote this and put it in the OP to show how stupid you are. The best comeback you have to a reasonable argument is a meme that died years ago because you can't defend yourself.
> 
> Science can't explain everything (not yet anyways). There are some things that we just don't know.


i didn't even know that u mad bro was an acutal meme


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> i didn't even know that u mad bro was an acutal meme


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-mad
mate this meme has been around longer than you probably have


----------



## Raylight (Jan 22, 2018)

GhostLatte said:


> Maybe because there has yet to be definitive proof that God exists.


No one can say he does or doesn't but the universe certainly didn't come from nothing because the laws of existence and how things work had to be there to dictate something could happen. Of course this begs the question who created god and why? I was raised as a Christian but i've kinda drifted into the whole idea we are a simulation or not having a religion at all and just saying i believe in A GOD but i dont think any religion is 100% accurate


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126387
> Forum bots can exist. Now prove to me that you are a conscious human being that exists.


i cannot make complex posts if i am a bot,but i'm not


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> i cannot make complex posts if i am a bot,but i'm not


That's exactly what a bot would say. I didn't ask for you to prove the complexity of your posts, I asked for you to prove the objective existence of your consciousness. I think this may be a bit much for you though.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> i cannot make complex posts if i am a bot,but i'm not


There is this wonderful thing called a Neural Network system that is used in AI that learns from example.

There is no way to objectively prove you exist without showing yourself to us in person, shaking hands with us, and having a discussion. Try all you want.


----------



## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> That's exactly what a bot would say. I didn't ask for you to prove the complexity of your posts, I asked for you to prove the objective existence of your consciousness. I think this may be a bit much for you though.


ahhhhh,i exists,but it's not possible to prove that i exist in a forum. And let's stop flame and forget all of this shit that happned here


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> There is this wonderful thing called a Neural Network system that is used in AI that learns from example.
> 
> There is no way to objectively prove you exist without showing yourself to us in person, shaking hands with us, and having a discussion. Try all you want.


Even then, that doesn't prove you exist to me, it only proves that I am shaking hands with something that I observe to be a human being. That does not mean that it is definitively a conscious being like myself. The world could just as easily be a simulation where I am the only one to exist.

Rene Descartes really threw a massive wrench into the whole "can't see it don't real" meme that idiots like to use.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> ahhhhh,i exists,but it's not possible to prove that i exist in a forum. And let's stop flame and forget all of this shit that happned here


Thanks. But your post still remains in the OP.


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

CoinKillerL said:


> ahhhhh,i exists,but it's not possible to prove that i exist in a forum. And let's stop flame and forget all of this shit that happned here


No, you evidently don't exist. I can't see your consciousness. You can't prove it exists relative to my own, as I cannot exist through your body and see through your consciousness, only my own. Thus, for all intents and purposes, you do not exist relative to me. Since you cannot be proven to exist, I have no reason to believe you do.


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## CoinKillerL (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> Thanks. But your post still remains in the OP.


k it's fine i perfectly understand that i am a fucking idiot


----------



## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> There is this wonderful thing called a Neural Network system that is used in AI that learns from example.
> 
> There is no way to objectively prove you exist without showing yourself to us in person, shaking hands with us, and having a discussion. Try all you want.


And if you want to take this to the extreme there is no way to prove he exists even if he does all of this - i.e. he meets you in person etc


----------



## Raylight (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> No, you evidently don't exist. I can't see your consciousness. You can't prove it exists relative to my own, as I cannot exist through your body and see through your consciousness, only my own. Thus, for all intents and purposes, you do not exist relative to me. Since you cannot be proven to exist, I have no reason to believe you do.


we could all be simulations. what is real and is not real is up for debate to be honest.


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> And if you want to take this to the extreme there is no way to prove he exists even if he does all of this - i.e. he meets you in person etc


You can go even further, he can't even prove that he is as you observe him to be. Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" philosophy is incredibly interesting and I encourage everyone -- even the "DON'T SEE IT DON'T REAL" fedora tippers to read into this. The world could just as easily be a fake simulation fooling our senses (which only exist to take in the information they are given, whether it's real or not, hence the existence of hallucinations) and we'd have no way of proving it because our senses are generally so consistent with what's observed.


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

Raylight said:


> we could all be simulations. what is real and is not real is up for debate to be honest.


And even what it means to be real is not clear


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## Tigran (Jan 22, 2018)

Well if you go string theory, then every for of you that didn't shake hands with you does.. and does not exist. 

Sorry.. Just wanted to be good there. 

I will say this.. having holy water splashed in my face was probably one of the wirdiest moments in my life. Then the inability to even laugh, just standing there dumbfound as I was asked why I wasn't burning or melting.


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## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

Why does everyone call god a "he"?


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

Raylight said:


> we could all be simulations. what is real and is not real is up for debate to be honest.


Your avatar could really just be an inverted color version of my own, but my eyes may simply wrongly perceive it to be from king of the hill.
Reality is not as set-in-stone as people like to think it is, or rather, as people take it for granted as being.


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Why does everyone call god a "he"?


By convention. Male is the default in English.


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## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Why does everyone call god a "he"?


In the hebrew bible God was given a masculine pronoun ("Elohim")


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## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> In the hebrew bible God was given a masculine pronoun ("Elohim")


Ah I see. I just think god would probably more of a women. Would make sense in my head for some reason.


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## Raylight (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Reality is not as set-in-stone as people like to think it is, or rather, as people take it for granted as being.


Reality (Our Reality) can be manipulated so who knows


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> *pushes up glasses, adjusts bowler hat [WHICH IS NOT A FEDORA STOP OWNING ME CHRISTIANUTUBER2003]*
> heh, dum religion people....didnt u no? bad things happen, so relgion r false!!!
> 
> This has been like the primary go-to argument of clowns and I've never understood it. Do any religious texts for the major religions say that their deity is supposed to be a super hero who saved literally everyone and prevents nothing bad from happening? I don't think I've read that anywhere but people seem to keep arguing points against such a non-existent line.


You are risking a strawman, and chucking insults around does not help your cause, though the quoted post is not without flaw either.
Taking that first.
" The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people."
The will of the gods thing is usually taken more for happenstance and bad things that happen to people (30 year old getting cancer sort of thing), not personal action which is what your phrase could be interpreted as. Though historically there are a few examples I guess of people using it for personal ends (it is a god's will that I survive in my nice plate armour to slay a few heathen infidels for you) I will have to assume we have free will as part of this, though mechanically that gets troubling a bit later.

I agree entirely that it is an incredibly dangerous mindset both on a practical level (how much science gets done now we stopped accepting/treating diseases like those in 1600 might have) and a philosophical level. If your religion encourages such thinking then I consider it flawed. by similar token an all seeing, all knowing, all powerful being creating creatures like those we see and are, and then doing nothing about it said being is not a nice being.


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> You are risking a strawman, and chucking insults around does not help your cause, though the quoted post is not without flaw either.
> Taking that first.
> " The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people."
> The will of the gods thing is usually taken more for happenstance and bad things that happen to people (30 year old getting cancer sort of thing), not personal action which is what your phrase could be interpreted as. Though historically there are a few examples I guess of people using it for personal ends (it is a god's will that I survive in my nice plate armour to slay a few heathen infidels for you) I will have to assume we have free will as part of this, though mechanically that gets troubling a bit later.
> ...


The religion doesn't though, idiots just think it does. A lot of pseudo intellectual atheists get really, really surface level when it comes to the iceberg that is religious philosophy. There's infinitely more at play than just what happens to mortals.


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> You are risking a strawman, and chucking insults around does not help your cause, though the quoted post is not without flaw either.
> Taking that first.
> " The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people."
> The will of the gods thing is usually taken more for happenstance and bad things that happen to people (30 year old getting cancer sort of thing), not personal action which is what your phrase could be interpreted as. Though historically there are a few examples I guess of people using it for personal ends (it is a god's will that I survive in my nice plate armour to slay a few heathen infidels for you) I will have to assume we have free will as part of this, though mechanically that gets troubling a bit later.
> ...


The best argument for lack of a compassionate Christian god is the holocaust.


MaverickWellington said:


> The religion doesn't though, idiots just think it does. A lot of pseudo intellectual atheists get really, really surface level when it comes to the iceberg that is religious philosophy. There's infinitely more at play than just what happens to mortals.


>There's infinitely more at play than just what happens to mortals.
Source?


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## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

But does Religion still belong in the 21st century? Isn't it passé now when we got a lot of social coverage and other means to care for our fellow man than hopes of a scripture?


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> >There's infinitely more at play than just what happens to mortals.
> Source?


The very universe itself. People are, and have been questioning it's existence and status as a whole, if it's even remotely as it seems, for years. Before we can discern the nature of a higher power, we must first discern the nature of our own existence, and if it is truly as it seems, or if we have been deluded all this time. I don't have a reason nor excuse for why bad things happen, they just do, but I don't believe a deity should be responsible to prevent absolutely all of them. A higher power would not conform to the will and morals of mortal men, otherwise he'd be no different from us besides his massive proverbial stick to wave around as the head honcho.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



linuxares said:


> But does Religion still belong in the 21st century? Isn't it passé now when we got a lot of social coverage and other means to care for our fellow man than hopes of a scripture?


Yes, because there's nothing wrong with having it present even today. Religion is not just a safety net of an after life. It typically brings moral values and a philosophy on life itself. Religion is something that's inevitable in society as a whole.


----------



## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> The very universe itself. People are, and have been questioning it's existence and status as a whole, if it's even remotely as it seems, for years. Before we can discern the nature of a higher power, we must first discern the nature of our own existence, and if it is truly as it seems, or if we have been deluded all this time. I don't have a reason nor excuse for why bad things happen, they just do, but I don't believe a deity should be responsible to prevent absolutely all of them. A higher power would not conform to the will and morals of mortal men, otherwise he'd be no different from us besides his massive proverbial stick to wave around as the head honcho.


>The very universe itself
But everything we know about the universe is through a mortal lens - hence anything you can bring up is necessarily affecting mortals - as you are a mortal and you know about it.

It's impossible to refute what I said because - as per definition - you can only know about things that somehow affect mortals.


----------



## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Yes, because there's nothing wrong with having it present even today. Religion is not just a safety net of an after life. It typically brings moral values and a philosophy on life itself. Religion is something that's inevitable in society as a whole.



Most of those morals, valuves and philosophy have nothing to do with religion but culture differences. Example is the death penalty. I think it's grousome and immoral. But a lot of people (religions and none religions) thinks it's an important process in the justice system. So no, this is all culture and not religion.


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> >The very universe itself
> But everything we know about the universe is through a mortal lens - hence anything you can bring up is necessarily affecting mortals - as you are a mortal and you know about it.
> 
> It's impossible to refute what I said because - as per definition - you can only know about things that somehow affect mortals.


You've missed my point. The point I'm making is that there is more going on than we will be able to comprehend. Before we can begin to understand the morality of a higher power, and how it works, we must understand the true nature of our world, which is impossible. It was to put into scale and perspective how such things would occur.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



linuxares said:


> Most of those morals, valuves and philosophy have nothing to do with religion but culture differences. Example is the death penalty. I think it's grousome and immoral. But a lot of people (religions and none religions) thinks it's an important process in the justice system. So no, this is all culture and not religion.


I'm pretty sure the religious texts around "do no evil" and so on are pretty moral, I dunno about you though.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> The best argument for lack of a compassionate Christian god is the holocaust.


God will not take away a person's ability to choose just because it doesn't seem morally correct, if it takes another's life. That is true compassion, giving all the ability to do as they please.


----------



## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

Also about the universe. I'm so annoyed about the Big Bang. What was before it? How came nothing to be everything? If there is a deity that created it, what created the deity?


----------



## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> You've missed my point. The point I'm making is that there is more going on than we will be able to comprehend. Before we can begin to understand the morality of a higher power, and how it works, we must understand the true nature of our world, which is impossible. It was to put into scale and perspective how such things would occur.


>there is more going on than we will be able to comprehend
>we must understand the true nature of our world, which is impossible
This is an assumption, and completely baseless. You can't prove anything that you're saying - other than your "intuition".


----------



## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> You've missed my point. The point I'm making is that there is more going on than we will be able to comprehend. Before we can begin to understand the morality of a higher power, and how it works, we must understand the true nature of our world, which is impossible. It was to put into scale and perspective how such things would occur.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


But is doing another evil the right way to deal with evil?


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> But is doing another evil the right way to deal with evil?


Right and wrong are things people get caught up on, what's important is if it's necessary, hence the term, "necessary evil."
You could argue casting those to a realm of eternal damnation is an evil act, but for those who are truly wicked who deserve it, it could be deemed a "necessary evil."


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Also about the universe. I'm so annoyed about the Big Bang. What was before it? How came nothing to be everything? If there is a deity that created it, what created the deity?


Don't think about it. This is a problem because our brain has limits. We can't do things such as visualize the fourth because that would require taking 3 dimensional objects and treating them as if they were 2D. By trying to imagine this, you are only straining yourself. All answers come in due time.


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> >there is more going on than we will be able to comprehend
> >we must understand the true nature of our world, which is impossible
> This is an assumption, and completely baseless. You can't prove anything that you're saying - other than your "intuition".


Explain to me what's baseless about "before we can understand this shit, we must understand the impossible." While you're at it, try proving me wrong. It's simple logic. Dunno what you're so hung up over.


----------



## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> God will not take away a person's ability to choose just because it doesn't seem morally correct, if it takes another's life. That is true compassion, giving all the ability to do as they please.


>God will not take away a person's ability to choose just because it doesn't seem morally correct
God killed people in the old testament liberally (if you believe in the old testament)

Here's a long list https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people

From an Abrahamic tradition god was very involved until he inexplicably stopped doing anything during recorded history.


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> >God will not take away a person's ability to choose just because it doesn't seem morally correct
> God killed people in the old testament liberally (if you believe in the old testament)
> 
> Here's a long list https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
> ...


>Rationalwiki
oh, well that explains a lot


----------



## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Explain to me what's baseless about "before we can understand this shit, we must understand the impossible." While you're at it, try proving me wrong. It's simple logic. Dunno what you're so hung up over.


You say it's impossible to understand reality - but you have no proof of this.

There is a long history of humans tackling problems and making sense of the world.

Further since you are the one making an absolute statement the onus is on you to prove your statement.

Your rebuttal is as senseless as a theist who says. "Make me prove God is real? How about you prove he isn't"


----------



## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> Don't think about it. This is a problem because our brain has limits. We can't do things such as visualize the fourth because that would require taking 3 dimensional objects and treating them as if they were 2D. By trying to imagine this, you are only straining yourself. All answers come in due time.


I don't agree, if we still believed our mind was limited, we still would all live in the stoneage. Evolution takes time that I get. There is a paradox that I can't remember the name of that the Universe created itself, but at a later stage. Family Guy had an episode on it but I can't for the world remember the paradox name.



MaverickWellington said:


> Right and wrong are things people get caught up on, what's important is if it's necessary, hence the term, "necessary evil."
> You could argue casting those to a realm of eternal damnation is an evil act, but for those who are truly wicked who deserve it, it could be deemed a "necessary evil."



Then the religion philosophy fails here. "Do No Evil" should be the norm to follow, not to divide from.


----------



## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> >Rationalwiki
> oh, well that explains a lot


I hope you understand an ad hominem attack is hardly pushing your narrative further.

Do you doubt the veracity of this list? 

Is this attack how you sweep under the rug god's list of confirmed kills?


----------



## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> You say it's impossible to understand reality - but you have no proof of this.
> 
> There is a long history of humans tackling problems and making sense of the world.
> 
> ...


Then prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the universe is as it is presented, and that our senses are not being fooled. This isn't "make me prove it's not real? prove it is" so much as it is "Our mortal minds aren't gonna understand this shit, but I openly welcome you to try"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



x65943 said:


> I hope you understand an ad hominem attack is hardly pushing your narrative further.
> 
> Do you doubt the veracity of this list?
> 
> Is this attack how you sweep under the rug god's list of confirmed kills?


I don't push narratives, that's for tools. I do however doubt the rationalwiki since any "wiki" presenting itself as rational while making arguments that clearly take one side over the other while painting the other as irrational is to be taken with a grain of salt. You'd be easier to take seriously linking unbiased sources.


----------



## linuxares (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Then prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the universe is as it is presented, and that our senses are not being fooled. This isn't "make me prove it's not real? prove it is" so much as it is "Our mortal minds aren't gonna understand this shit, but I openly welcome you to try"


Then challange it! Do not accept the answer as "I'm not smart enough". That's what got us stuck in the freaking middle ages. We kickstarted a lot for humanity today. Before we could look at the moon, then we landed and walked on it and today we know we can again step on it.


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Then prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the universe is as it is presented, and that our senses are not being fooled. This isn't "make me prove it's not real? prove it is" so much as it is "Our mortal minds aren't gonna understand this shit, but I openly welcome you to try"


I make no claims that the world is exactly as presented. Just as I make no claim that we can understand the universe.

My issue is that you do claim that it is impossible to comprehend the world. 

You may very well be correct. I am just asking you to acknowledge that there is no evidence to back up your claim and that it's merely an opinion.


----------



## Deleted User (Jan 22, 2018)

x65943 said:


> >God will not take away a person's ability to choose just because it doesn't seem morally correct
> God killed people in the old testament liberally (if you believe in the old testament)
> 
> Here's a long list https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people
> ...


The only explanation I have for that comes from my own religion and religious teachings, and I don't want to force anything on anybody so I will keep that quiet unless somebody wants to hear it.


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

blujay said:


> The only explanation I have for that comes from my own religion and religious teachings, and I don't want to force anything on anybody so I will keep that quiet unless somebody wants to hear it.


Yeah I understand.

All I'm saying is that you say God won't take away one's will - but he has done it in the past. So for me it doesn't make sense that he allowed such an atrocity to take place when in the past he has killed people for masturbating one time and spilling seed on the earth.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MaverickWellington said:


> Then prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the universe is as it is presented, and that our senses are not being fooled. This isn't "make me prove it's not real? prove it is" so much as it is "Our mortal minds aren't gonna understand this shit, but I openly welcome you to try"
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



>You'd be easier to take seriously linking unbiased sources
I don't endorse the wiki - only the list of people god has killed. Which if you doubt the veracity please look into the appropriate passages (As I have) and refute the killings. Because they are all biblical.


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Then challange it! Do not accept the answer as "I'm not smart enough". That's what got us stuck in the freaking middle ages. We kickstarted a lot for humanity today. Before we could look at the moon, then we landed and walked on it and today we know we can again step on it.


Except my previous posts have been discussing the topic of it. There's nothing to challenge it with beyond "well it isn't as it seems" and that's as far as it goes, and even then that's a stretch, it's really more in the realm of statements like "It probably isn't as it seems, there's no way to verify that it's presented existence is all there is to it."

If you question literally everything for the sake of questioning everything instead of questioning what you are able to, and looking further into things based on the evidence and information that is available, you're just going to end up wasting time and brainpower best used in other, more suitable questions.



x65943 said:


> I make no claims that the world is exactly as presented. Just as I make no claim that we can understand the universe.
> 
> My issue is that you do claim that it is impossible to comprehend the world.
> 
> You may very well be correct. I am just asking you to acknowledge that there is no evidence to back up your claim and that it's merely an opinion.


It's not an opinion though. Our senses are easily fooled. The mere existence of things called "hallucinations" prove this. The point I continuously make, that gets you in the world's biggest tizzy, is that we as mortals are not going to be able to comprehend that the world presented to us by our senses is objectively, without a doubt, as it is presented. It's a fact of life. We have no proper way of investigating this, only theories. There's nothing that definitively says the world is as it seems without any room of questioning whatsoever.


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## x65943 (Jan 22, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Except my previous posts have been discussing the topic of it. There's nothing to challenge it with beyond "well it isn't as it seems" and that's as far as it goes, and even then that's a stretch, it's really more in the realm of statements like "It probably isn't as it seems, there's no way to verify that it's presented existence is all there is to it."
> 
> If you question literally everything for the sake of questioning everything instead of questioning what you are able to, and looking further into things based on the evidence and information that is available, you're just going to end up wasting time and brainpower best used in other, more suitable questions.
> 
> ...


Just because you can be fooled does not mean you cannot discern the truth. 

And we cannot know if the world is as it seems - however this does not mean that it is not as it seems.

My point is that we could very well come to a good understanding of the world. And it's just as ridiculous to say we will understand everything, as we can never understand existence - mainly because there is no evidence in either direction.


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## Xathya (Jan 22, 2018)

linuxares said:


> Oh an intresting thread!
> I'm very much against all forms of religion. For me, religion is just a powertool, a tool to brainwash people, a tool to force people out of money.
> The lack of hiding behind the claws of "It's gods will" etc. is such a bad excuse for a despicable behaviour from a lot of people.


*coughs* robret trilons *coughs(*


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## Tigran (Jan 23, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> I'm pretty sure the religious texts around "do no evil" and so on are pretty moral, I dunno about you though.



You obviously never read the bible. ;D


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## Zap Rowsdower (Jan 23, 2018)

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.


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## DeoNaught (Jan 23, 2018)

Before I start, I just want all to know I mean to Offend no one.


GhostLatte said:


> Maybe because there has yet to be definitive proof that God exists.


Do you have proof he doesn't? like something set in stone that says "God does not exist"




blujay said:


> I really like this.
> 
> My religion was founded because the founder was constantly being introduced to new religions, so he went and prayed to God for assistance and from there the religion was founded.


(Correct me if I am wrong) Wasn't it because he didn't like how the Catholic Church was doing, and how they were "Selling" Indulgences?(which they weren't btw, Common misconception)




Eix said:


> Catholicism just makes me cringe


How so?



x65943 said:


> >God will not take away a person's ability to choose just because it doesn't seem morally correct
> God killed people in the old testament liberally (if you believe in the old testament)
> 
> ~snip~
> ...


He did, There was a flood aswell(Killed all, except a few), because Humans were corrupt, and there was a small number that wasn't.
I don't trust that article, because anything online doesn't have it's fact backed.

Aight, I need to get to bed, I'll post a better comment, if it's not locked tomorrow


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## chrisrlink (Jan 23, 2018)

being a cetain religion can turn Adamation and devoutness into intolerance and hatred (speaking from experiance cause I was Muslim for a breif period also some ppl go overboard in the devoutness (my future father in law (from my brother getting married in march) the way i feel for a lack of a better word a crazy devout Christan (and very inappropriate) an example he was insulting to other religions (literally wanted to punch him in the fucking face) durring my bro's and his fiance's engagement dinner (I don't blame her she looked rather pissed at her dad) another angle bout islam is the fact how women are so restricted while men could do as they please w/o the woman's say but being converted as the only means of getting married i'm just glad i backed out in time


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## Tigran (Jan 23, 2018)

God is apperantly okay with Incest and abortion though. ;D

And yes.. I have proof that an all loving omnipotent god does not exist. Just look at all the people hurt with disease and starving to death and being shot to death.

Now an asshole of a god... ehh. But still. At least Zeus and those guys came down from high and was "Knock that shit off."

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



chrisrlink said:


> being a cetain religion can turn Adamation and devoutness into intolerance and hatred (speaking from experiance cause I was Muslim for a breif period also some ppl go overboard in the devoutness (my future father in law (from my brother getting married in march) the way i feel for a lack of a better word a crazy devout Christan (and very inappropriate) an example he was insulting to other religions (literally wanted to punch him in the fucking face) durring my bro's and his fiance's engagement dinner (I don't blame her she looked rather pissed at her dad) another angle bout islam is the fact how women are so restricted while men could do as they please w/o the woman's say but being converted as the only means of getting married i'm just glad i backed out in time



Not a lot different than Christianity. Did you know women are supposed to cover their hair or go around bald according to the bible?


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## osaka35 (Jan 23, 2018)

Religion is captivating, engrossing, and gives meaning. It's all illusionary, though.

There is no inherent meaning in, or to, the universe. What meaning there is to give is given by you. What meaning you get from the universe is created by you. in particular.

In this way, religion allows people to apply a larger-than-thou meaning to everything that happens. The mythologies and legends that surround the justification for religion, and spirituality for that matter, are just made-up. But that doesn't make them any less meaningful to those who wish to believe in them.

So, religion is fine as a personal choice. If it gives you meaning, then it gives you meaning. But there is no real reason to believe in any gods or external purpose to the universe.

We just want our lives to have meaning. So groups of humans have made up various stories that gave the illusion of a universe with some inherent meaning. It's kinda sad in a way, but very endearing. You humans are pretty adorable sometimes. Except when you argue about the stories and turn that meaning into justification for hate. Not cute. Not endearing. Stop that stuff.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> How so?


hard to explain but it just bothers me


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## GhostLatte (Jan 23, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> Do you have proof he doesn't? like something set in stone that says "God does not exist"


Do you have proof that unicorns don't exist? Exactly! You don't. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance


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## x65943 (Jan 23, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> Before I start, I just want all to know I mean to Offend no one.
> 
> Do you have proof he doesn't? like something set in stone that says "God does not exist"
> 
> ...


It's pretty disingenuous to dismiss the list when you haven't even looked at it.

All of the entries list the passage in the Bible so it's very easy to fact check each instance. It's not exactly an unknown fact that God killed a lot of people.

The least you could do is try to verify your suspicion.


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## GhostLatte (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm curious, DeoNaught, if you are fine with your God supporting rape in the Old Testament. Or you just cherry pick your Bible pasages like other Christians?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31:7-18

"And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."


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## loler55 (Jan 23, 2018)

only money collectors work in a church

sect.....


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## 330 (Jan 23, 2018)

Tigran said:


> God is apperantly okay with Incest and abortion though. ;D


It's for shit like this that atheists are never taken seriously, you know.

If you read the bible, something I'm certain you didn't, you would know that Incest was one of the first things outright forbidden by Judaism. It was only allowed when "necessary to continue the specie", or the equivalent of being alone in a deserted island.


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## iMythD (Jan 23, 2018)

I believe Religion was a way to explain what people couldn't explain, a way to get comfort, as well as the basis of laws, a reason to have to follow these rules. As it evolved, it became a way to control these masses, people love to be in control, and what better way than to use fear of eternal damnation. You only have to look into some of the verses where it mentions stoning, sale of women, can't eat this or can't wear that to truly see it was about control.


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## Tigran (Jan 23, 2018)

330 said:


> It's for shit like this that atheists are never taken seriously, you know.
> 
> If you read the bible, something I'm certain you didn't, you would know that Incest was one of the first things outright forbidden by Judaism. It was only allowed when "necessary to continue the specie", or the equivalent of being alone in a deserted island.



Uh.. The story about Noah's ark directly countradicts that. As his family was the only one spared. Care to tell me how his family repopulated the world?

So.. it's still okay.

I mean, like MOST of the stories of the bible it contradicts other parts. So yes I was being a bit fecitious there, but it the point remains. Even if was only "allowed to continue the species" it's still contradictory. Are you allowed to steal because it was "necessary to feed you kids?" No you go to jail.

Besides there is Exodus 6:20: Amram married his father's sister Jochebed, and she bore him Aaron and Moses; and the length of Amram's life was one hundred and thirty-seven years.

And Genesis 20:12-13: "Besides, she actually is my sister, the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife; and it came about, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said to her, 'This is the kindness which you will show to me: everywhere we go, say of me, "He is my brother."'"

I'm not saying there are quotes that condem them. But there is also indications that it's perfectly okay.

However, it still remains that Leviticus 19:19: States such things as: You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.

And did you know god actually told people to smash people against rocks and to rip out women's wombs?

Lets also not forget that god couldn't keep is own story straight and altered the 10 commandments.


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## Taleweaver (Jan 23, 2018)

Tough question. Okay...I'll post my opinion, but I perhaps have to state first that I only glanced at other replies and side-discussions. I will not be partaking in any, but reply directly to the OP. Meaning...this piece:


blujay said:


> With constant growth of the disbelief in God (or the belief in no God) and tensions between different religions, religion has constantly become a hot topic. Certain religions have been changing their doctrine to fit modern society to make themselves more appealing. Personally, I am not fond of this approach, because you shouldn't have to change the fundamental prospects of your religion to get somebody to join it. The basis of a religion is the belief in something, but changing those beliefs to make it more appealing just seems wrong -- one could argue it seems that it doesn't make it a true religion.
> 
> Anyways, I just want to get your opinion on what a religion and why you do(n't) follow one.



I think the constant growth of disbelief comes from the evergrowing means to communicate. Back when all you had was your own community, it was much easier to share your beliefs with others. And this was for good cause, because the doctrines most if not all religions share had an underlying goal or intention on them that made the community stronger (incest was bad because offspring often ended up being behind or backwards; stealing divided the community members, and so on). Even now seemingly strange rituals like the prohibition of pig meat was (according to people whom I personally choose to believe) because pig meat was, at that time, unable to be conserved for a long time (meaning: it could kill you if it wasn't fresh enough). These things were good. Most of the mantra's still are (sharing and equality are often preached). So on that front, I can't fault religion for giving people moral anchors to guide them through this life.

Personally, I'm agnostic and closer to atheist, but certainly not an active one. And I'd consider myself a humanist before that, though it's often not regarded as something religious. In any case, I believe in mankind. We're...what? 7 billion people? That's a pretty large number, so of course things can go wrong. Murder, robbery, stealing...all sorts of crimes. And on larger scale: war and oppression. But that's the side the media feeds us. The media constantly reports on these issues but usually fails to mention that for all these steps back, we take huge-ass steps forward. No matter how miserable we feel, we've got things better than ever before. There may be a huge gap in equality, but even the poorest of the poor are now richer than they used to be. Things like pollution and starvation still happens, but not on the scale that it once was.

And to bring it back to religion: it's in a time of crisis partially because - ironically - things are so looking up. If the worst thing we're afraid of is a terrorist attack, we don't really have much to be afraid of. And in case that sounds strange: the chance of dying in such an attack are smaller than dying in traffic. And it's a HUGE MAGNITUDE lower in probability than dying of things that were common about a hundred years ago.
And as I started this post: it's about community too. We don't live in isolated towns anymore. We're connected to the entire world. Having Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, atheists and all sorts of religious people talk to one another doesn't always go smoothly (see also: a huge amount of earlier posts  ), but at least these talks are done TO EACH OTHER. Values and principles are questioned, yes. And that can feel threatening. But these values and principles could also have been wrong to begin with. And I'm not saying this to step on anyone's toes (though I admit it'll probably be taken serious), but because I believe that values and principles that can't stand a bit of self-examination isn't worth cherishing. I don't mind rituals, holy places or other ways of life (as far as they leave me my own beliefs). But whatever you might get out of it may be your own strength. No matter how well your intentions, you shouldn't push it. And no matter how strange the religious (or lack thereof) others might seem to you, you should accept them for who they are rather than attempt to make others fit into your world view.


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## DeoNaught (Jan 23, 2018)

GhostLatte said:


> Do you have proof that unicorns don't exist? Exactly! You don't.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance


yeah Okay, maybe.



GhostLatte said:


> I'm curious, DeoNaught, if you are fine with your God supporting rape in the Old Testament. Or you just cherry pick your Bible pasages like other Christians?
> 
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31:7-18
> 
> "And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."


To be taken as House servants, etc etc, not sexual servants. 
Yano, some might have, but I don't think that's what it's saying, although it could be it, I won't deny it.
on slaves, according to the law, they have to be set free after around Seven years(I don't remember the exact amount of time), unless the servant wanted to stay.
Another thing, in the Mosaic law, it was forbidden to have love with someone's wife, and vice versa, you could in fact get stoned(in the literal sense) to death.

Another thing: The Bible is not factually sound, and the bible does not _prove _the Church.


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## Nerdtendo (Jan 23, 2018)

What I'm confused is why people keep saying "the God of the Bible is okay with rape and incest" where does it say that?


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## DeoNaught (Jan 23, 2018)

Nerdtendo said:


> What I'm confused is why people keep saying "the God of the Bible is okay with rape and incest" where does it say that?


It doesn't, here's an of example

Deuteronomy 22:25–27
Says the punishment.

Basically, People like to make oranges, out of apples


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## Nerdtendo (Jan 23, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> It doesn't, here's an of example
> 
> Deuteronomy 22:25–27
> Says the punishment.
> ...


It amazes me how many people can get misconceptions about something they know nothing about.


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 23, 2018)

Nerdtendo said:


> It amazes me how many people can get misconceptions about something they know nothing about.


I can feel it in the wind now
the thunderous explosion of five thousand fedora tippers clambering out of their mobility scooters to scramble to their PCs and yell at you

thou hath opened the portal to the hell of fat nerds


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## Nerdtendo (Jan 23, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> I can feel it in the wind now
> the thunderous explosion of five thousand fedora tippers clambering out of their mobility scooters to scramble to their PCs and yell at you
> 
> thou hath opened the portal to the hell of fat nerds


Bring it on suckers


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## GhostLatte (Jan 23, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> Another thing: The Bible is not factually sound, and the bible does not _prove _the Church.


Exactly because the Bible is a load of bullshit. Some Christians cherry pick their passages to say that homosexuality is wrong. Religion brings about hate which is fucked up.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> (Correct me if I am wrong) Wasn't it because he didn't like how the Catholic Church was doing, and how they were "Selling" Indulgences?(which they weren't btw, Common misconception)


You are wrong. It is what I stated


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## xpoverzion (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> *Notice: This thread is about religion. This means that there will be contradicting opinions. Because this is the case, some will get frustrated and flustered. In these cases, I advise you not to post until you have collected some thoughts into a reasonable post. I also advise you not to say harmful things regarding religions unless you truly mean them.
> *
> Before posting, please note that all rules established here and here are not voided in this thread. You must follow all rules, and your post can (and most likely will) be reported if you are violating them.
> 
> ...


Hate to break it to you, but Christianity is dead.  It has been at war with with Judaism for 2000 years.  These two ideologies have been trying to snuff the other out for a long time.  In todays world, Judaism has a huge upper hand over the masses through it's diasporas monopoly on media, economics, and politics.  You may ask yourself that if Judaism is winning this battle of ideology, then why don't I see it everywhere.  The answer is that Judaism is not for you, and is reserved for a very small exclusive club.  So the future holds that Christianity will likely disappear completely, or be reduced to an impotent ideology that doesn't make sense anymore, nor does it stick to the tennants of it's faith.  Judaism will remain standing, and stronger then ever among it's chosen adherents.  And everybody else will be mindless minions following new age this and that, buddhism, etc...  All faiths that do not challenge Judaism anymore, or even have a clue what it is, and how it influences them.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> Hate to break it to you, but Christianity is dead.  It has been at war with with Judaism for 2000 years.  These two ideologies have been trying to snuff the other out for a long time.  In todays world, Judaism has a huge upper hand over the masses through it's diasporas monopoly on media, economics, and politics.  You may ask yourself that if Judaism is winning this battle of ideology, then why don't I see it everywhere.  The answer is that Judaism is not for you, and is reserved for a very small exclusive club.  So the future holds that Christianity will likely disappear completely, or be reduced to an impotent ideology that doesn't make sense anymore, nor does it stick to the tennants of it's faith.  Judaism will remain standing, and stronger then ever among it's chosen adherents.  And everybody else will be mindless minions following new age this and that, buddhism, etc...  All faiths that do not challenge Judaism anymore, or even have a clue what it is, and how it influences them.


Huh. Sounds like you are a Jew then. That is fine. Christianity isn't dead. It will never die.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



xpoverzion said:


> Hate to break it to you, but Christianity is dead.  It has been at war with with Judaism for 2000 years.  These two ideologies have been trying to snuff the other out for a long time.  In todays world, Judaism has a huge upper hand over the masses through it's diasporas monopoly on media, economics, and politics.  You may ask yourself that if Judaism is winning this battle of ideology, then why don't I see it everywhere.  The answer is that Judaism is not for you, and is reserved for a very small exclusive club.  So the future holds that Christianity will likely disappear completely, or be reduced to an impotent ideology that doesn't make sense anymore, nor does it stick to the tennants of it's faith.  Judaism will remain standing, and stronger then ever among it's chosen adherents.  And everybody else will be mindless minions following new age this and that, buddhism, etc...  All faiths that do not challenge Judaism anymore, or even have a clue what it is, and how it influences them.


And last time I checked, Judaism had 15 million followers with Christianity at over 2.2 billion, and islam at 1.6 billion. I am not the one to say which one is true, but your argument doesn't seem to hold up to numbers. And since Judaism is an ethnic religion, it is harder to be converted to Judaism than to Christianity, which by default means that eventually Judaism will vanish except for countries in which it is the official religion (israel)


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## xpoverzion (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> Huh. Sounds like you are a Jew then. That is fine. Christianity isn't dead. It will never die.


Christianity may never die.  But if it's practices and tenants are mutated to the point that it's no longer remotely close to the way it was intended 2000 years ago, then it's essentially dead for all intent and purpuses.  Judaism on the other hand has remainded largely identical in practice, beliefs, etc for over 2000 years.  A few holidays have been added here and there to celbrate how Judaism conquered the Goys that challenged them, but by in large, it has remained in tact, and unchanged.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



blujay said:


> Huh. Sounds like you are a Jew then. That is fine. Christianity isn't dead. It will never die.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Not sure what your point is??  There are 7 billion people on the planet, and 1% of those 7 billion hold most of the wealth, and guide the direction of history.  With your logic, the 1% shouldn't have this control and influence over the rest if they are outnumberd by the billions.  You just don't understand what Judiasm is, how it works, and how it has worked throughout history.  That's ok.  This has been the position of the Goy for 1000's of years now.


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## DarkFlare69 (Jan 23, 2018)

I don't like religion because it makes people believe things that are false. It teaches them wrong. Religion is meant to scare people into being good. I can't stand people who brainwash their children into believing stuff that some random guy wrote in a book called "the bible" in an attempt to improve people. I don't understand how people can still believe in it. We're past that time.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> Christianity may never die.  But if it's practices and tenants are mutated to the point that it's no longer remotely close to the way it was 2000 years ago, then it's essentially dead for all intent and purpuses.  Judaism on the other hand has remainded largely identical in practice, beliefs, etc for over 2000 years.  A few holidays have been added here and there to celbrate how Judaism conquered the Goys that challenged them, but by in large, it has remained in tact, and unchanged.


That is true.* I can explain why Christianity has changed, but not defend it.
Christianity is a globalizing religion, whereas Judaism is an ethnic religion. A universalizing religion is one where its goal is to convert as many as possible. Now, when this happens, doctrines may change, mutated, removed, added, etc. In an ethnic religion, they don't aim to convert everybody, so they typically stick to their doctrine.

That said, some Christian religions don't change a lot. They may change in practices, but not in doctrine.



xpoverzion said:


> Not sure what your point is??  There are 7 billion people on the planet, and 1% of those 7 billion hold most of the wealth, and guide the direction of history.  With your logic, the 1% shouldn't have this control and influence over the rest if they are outnumberd by the billions.


I never said they shouldn't have the power. However, Judaism currently doesn't have all of the power (not saying they shouldn't but they don't right now).

I look at it this way. If those 1% didn't control history, then they could be comparable to Judaism (although 1% of 7 billion is 70 million, so Judaism is more like 0.2%)
If they only married within themselves, and didn't marry others (comparable to an ethnic religion) then they would eventually die out because there isn't enough to spread out to. Now, if they were actively trying to marry outside of their group, then those people they marry would then be included in the wealthiest percent of the globe, and so on so forth.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DarkFlare69 said:


> I don't like religion because it makes people believe things that are false. It teaches them wrong. Religion is meant to scare people into being good. I can't stand people who brainwash their children into believing stuff that some random guy wrote in a book called "the bible" in an attempt to improve people. I don't understand how people can still believe in it. We're past that time.


"some random guy" nice. because, ya know, there aren't two testaments in the bible, Jesus wasn't an actual person (whether he was the son of God or a prophet or faker is different, but he was a real person), and there are definitely not more than 1 prophet in the whole bible. The fact that multiple people wrote in the bible can be proven by looking at the writing styles.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



xpoverzion said:


> You just don't understand what Judiasm is, how it works, and how it has worked throughout history. That's ok. This has been the position of the Goy for 1000's of years now.


This is where you begin assuming, and where I step out. I personally don't know how it works, but I have Jewish teachers/professors that describe to me their practices. In high school, I took an AP Human Geography class with a Jewish teacher who explained the difference between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity with as much of an objective/unbiased point of view as possible, and I would sincerely hope you could do the same.


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## DarkFlare69 (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> That is true.* I can explain why Christianity has changed, but not defend it.
> Christianity is a globalizing religion, whereas Judaism is an ethnic religion. A universalizing religion is one where its goal is to convert as many as possible. Now, when this happens, doctrines may change, mutated, removed, added, etc. In an ethnic religion, they don't aim to convert everybody, so they typically stick to their doctrine.
> 
> That said, some Christian religions don't change a lot. They may change in practices, but not in doctrine.
> ...


"random guy" was just a dumbed down version of the truth. No, it wasn't just one person, it was a group of people. But it wasn't the prophets or whatever the fuck, because those don't exist. There's no God either.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

DarkFlare69 said:


> "random guy" was just a dumbed down version of the truth. No, it wasn't just one person, it was a group of people. But it wasn't the prophets or whatever the fuck, because those don't exist. There's no God either.


Alright. Fair belief.


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## xpoverzion (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> That is true.* I can explain why Christianity has changed, but not defend it.
> Christianity is a globalizing religion, whereas Judaism is an ethnic religion. A universalizing religion is one where its goal is to convert as many as possible. Now, when this happens, doctrines may change, mutated, removed, added, etc. In an ethnic religion, they don't aim to convert everybody, so they typically stick to their doctrine.
> 
> That said, some Christian religions don't change a lot. They may change in practices, but not in doctrine.
> ...


Judaism has no power??  You need to start reading some history books.  Not history books that are written by the Goys, but the books that are written by your masters.  If Judaism has no power, then how do you explain the fact that a small group of people, that is irrelevant in your eyes, has convinced the nations to create a state called Israel for them in the first place?  How is it that this tiny little start up nation of Israel was the third nation to aquire nuclear bombs after the U.S. and Russia?   How is it that America and the west spends trillions to safe guard that tiny little state in the Middle East?  If any other tiny minority group such as American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, etc wanted a nation, nuclear bombs, and the commitment of the world to protect them, they would just be laughed at.  You have much to learn.  Open your eyes, read the history books, and you will find that Judaism is hardly a powerless minority ideology.  Quite the contrary.  Little do you know, the tail wags the dog, and it always has throughout the course of western history.  Now, all you have to do is ask yourself why it is that the tail wags the dog?  If you start to look into this, be prepared to open pandora's box.  Things are not what you thought they were.  I also wonder if you really have anything to do with Moscow, Russia?  Your country has a long history with Judaism.  Not the least with Trotsky/Lenin's Bolshivism, who just so happened to side with the ambitions of Judiasm.


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## leonmagnus99 (Jan 23, 2018)

i am a muslim and well how should i put all of this, i think most religions out there are peaceful.

i really dislike people using religion as a tool , alot of them do sadly.
they use religion to murder, it is all so despicable.

religion is also a very sensitive subject often times, i dislike those that put it in extreme levels and make the lives of others hard with it.

i just think it is important to have some belief.
to believe in something that is greater than all of us.

i believe in god , i just think it is important for me to have this faith.
i am no way near extreme, like i said i dont like those that preach it in extreme ways and shove it in your face.

i think it should be down to each individual what to believe in etc.
i just feel more at peace with the mindset that there is one god.


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm catholic, I don't really know what to think, I'm still young and confused.
I believe in God and I want to be with him, he represents all that is good in life and he'll give us a resting place once we leave this world.


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> Judaism has no power??  You need to start reading some history books.  Not history books that are written by the Goys, but the books that are written by your masters.  If Judaism has no power, then how do you explain the fact that a small group of people, that is irrelevant in your eyes, has convinced the nations to create a state called Israel for them in the first place?  How is it that this tiny little start up nation of Israel was the third nation to aquire nuclear bombs after the U.S. and Russia?   How is it that America and the west spends trillions to safe guard that tiny little state in the Middle East?  If any other tiny minority group such as American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, etc wanted a nation, nuclear bombs, and the commitment of the world to protect them, they would just be laughed at.  You have much to learn.  Open your eyes, read the history books, and you will find that Judaism is hardly a powerless minority ideology.  Quite the contrary.  Little do you know, the tail wags the dog, and it always has throughout the course of western history.  Now, all you have to do is ask yourself why it is that the tail wags the dog?  If you start to look into this, be prepared to open pandora's box.  Things are not what you thought they were.  I also wonder if you really have anything to do with Moscow, Russia?  Your country has a long history with Judaism.  Not the least with Trotsky, and Lenin, who just so happened to side with the ambitions of Judiasm.


This is GBATemp, not stormfront.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

The first and foremost thing I'd like to say is that if Judaism had as much power as you claim, why haven't you guys conquered the entire world? Don't tell me it is a "peace loving religion" because if that was the case why would you spend time developing weapons of mass destruction.

Next, let's go over each of your posts.



xpoverzion said:


> Judaism has no power??  You need to start reading some history books.  Not history books that are written by the Goys, but the books that are written by your masters.


This is just a bad argument. A history book written by a variety of religions (Christian, Atheist, et c.) is going to have less subjective perspective than one written by a single religion. A history book written by the "Goys" has just as much, if not less,  "Goyish" bias as a history book written by Jews has Jewish bias.


xpoverzion said:


> If Judaism has no power, then how do you explain the fact that a small group of people has convinced the nations to create a state called Israel for them in the first place?


The same reason any other religion would get a specific homeland. Not because they are superior, but because it is unethical to target any one particular group of people based on their religion. The state of Israel was created as a Jewish homeland due to Britain's inability to handle conflicts between the Arab Palestine and the Jewish people immigrating into Palestine. The UN then decided to separate the two religions due to past conflict.


xpoverzion said:


> How is it that Israel was the third nation to aquire nuclear bombs after the U.S. and Russia?


This proves literally nothing regarding your post. In fact, you weren't the third. The UK was, by at least 8 years. There is no concrete evidence that you guys were fourth either. The suspected time of the first test was between 1960 and 1979. In this time period, 3 other nations tested nuclear weaponry.


xpoverzion said:


> How is it that America and the west spends trillions safe guarding that tiny little state in the Middle East?


This is a simple answer: You give us oil, something that we need, and we give you protection, something that you need. If you were so "high and mighty" why would you need protection? If you were the chosen of God (which nobody is, we are all equal in God's eye) then wouldn't you be the strongest military in the world?


xpoverzion said:


> If any other tiny minority group such as American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, etc wanted a nation, and the commitment of the world to protect them, they would just be laughed at.


Probably because we are so used to abusing them that we wouldn't want them to have their own country (sounds really bad but it is most likely true) and Israel was created shortly after WWII, which is when the Holocaust happened, and I don't doubt for a minute there was at least shred of shame and regret afterwards and wanted to make amends.


xpoverzion said:


> I also wonder if you really have anything to do with Moscow, Russia? Your country has a long history with Judaism. Not the least with Trotsky/Lenin's Bolshivism, who just so happened to side with the ambitions of Judiasm.


Huh. Guess I forgot to change it back to Gilbert Arizona.


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## xpoverzion (Jan 23, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> This is GBATemp, not stormfront.


Ooops.  I'm sorry.  My bad.  We need to get back to talking about the games that we waste countless hours with. The endless streams of enternainment that keep us clueless dummies.  Like the Colliseum, it's the oldest trick in the book to pacify the Goy's, and proletariets.  Are you not entertained!?!?


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> Ooops.  I'm sorry.  My bad.  We need to get back to talking about the games that we waste countless hours with. The endless streams of enternainment that keep us clueless dummies.  Like the Colliseum, it's the oldest trick in the book to pacify the Goy's, and proletariets.  Are you not entertained!?!?


Imagine coming to a gaming board centered around hacking and modding, as well as just general video games with a negative outlook on them to cry about jews


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> Ooops.  I'm sorry.  My bad.  We need to get back to talking about the games that we waste countless hours with. The endless streams of enternainment that keep us clueless dummies.  Like the Colliseum, it's the oldest trick in the book to pacify the Goy's, and proletariets.  Are you not entertained!?!?


I know that they way Goy is meant to be said is in a neutral manner (it is the equivalent to Gentile) but you really seem to be using it in a derogatory way.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MaverickWellington said:


> Imagine coming to a gaming board centered around hacking and modding, as well as just general video games with a negative outlook on them to cry about jews


Buddy where have you been the last few pages. I missed you ;o;


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> I know that they way Goy is meant to be said is in a neutral manner (it is the equivalent to Gentile) but you really seem to be using it in a derogatory way.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


To the first reply, he's using it in a mocking tone towards non-jews to mock the "jewish masters" you find in really every stormweenie/neo-nazi conspiracy theory.

To the second, been playing MH4U and Smash 3DS. Good shit. Got sucked back into Dota though. Not as good shit.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> To the second, been playing MH4U and Smash 3DS. Good shit. Got sucked back into Dota though. Not as good shit.


Damn. You got those good games going on. MH4U and Smash are the only games I consistently use my 3DS for (besides testing homebrew and the like).


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## xpoverzion (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> The first and foremost thing I'd like to say is that if Judaism had as much power as you claim, why haven't you guys conquered the entire world? Don't tell me it is a "peace loving religion" because if that was the case why would you spend time developing weapons of mass destruction.
> 
> Next, let's go over each of your posts.
> 
> ...


Pretty much every point you made is precisely in line with the mainstream narrative, and understanding of things.  Exactly how they want you to think.  A few points.  The reason that the Goy's history books cannot tell the true history is becuase if they did, this would instantly be decried as "anti-semitism."  Your masters on the other hand can tell the truth about their own history, world history, and how it has worked in the world throughout the ages.  These are books that are written by them, for their audience only.  Chances are, you have never perused, or touched one of these books.  Israel aquired the Nuclear bomb in the early to mid 1950's.  There is a reason why JFK was opening an inquiry into their nuclear program by the time the 60's had come around.  Oil is not the reason why the west is involved in the Middle East.  America only gets about 10% of it's oil from the middle east.  A drop in the bucket.  Most of our oil comes from Canada, Mexico, and South America.  But you don't see us invading those countries do you?  There have been countless people of different faiths, skin color, etc that have been persecuted, slaughtered, and wiped out throughtout history, but you don't see anybody bending over backwards for the demands of those people that remain do you?  And yes, Goy is a derogatory term.  Google "Goy" and here is the first definition that you get.
goy
ɡoi/
_noun_
informal; derogatory
It's alright.  You are a typical product of the culture and society that has been created for you by those who wield true power and influence.  Such innocence.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> Pretty much every point you made is precisely in line with the mainstream narrative, and understanding of things.  Exactly how they want you to think.  A few points.  The reason that the Goy's history books cannot tell the true history is becuase if they did, this would instantly be decried as "anti-semitism."  Your masters on the other hand can tell the truth about their own history, and how it has worked in the world.  These are books that are written by them, for their audience only.  Chances are, you have never perused, or touched one of these books.  Israel aquired the Nuclear bomb in the early to mid 1950's.  There is a reason why JFK was opening an inquiry into their nuclear program by the time the 60's had come around.  Oil is not the reason why the west is involved in the Middle East.  America only gets about 10% of it's oil from the middle east.  A drop in the bucket.  Most of our oil comes from Canada, Mexico, and South America.  But you don't see us invading those countries do you?  There have been countless people of different faiths, skin color, etc that have been persecuted, slaughtered, and wiped out throughtout history, but you don't see anybody bending over backwards for the demands of those people that remain do you?  And yes, Goy is a derogatory term.  Google "Goy" and here is the first definition that you get.
> goy
> ɡoi/
> _noun_
> ...


Here is what you fail to understand: Your history books are as biased towards you as our books are biased towards us. Whose version is correct? If your books are the only books that say that Israel obtained nuclear weaponry in the 1950s, and the rest say that you got them in the 60s, then whose is correct? Either one may be correct, or neither may be. The truth is that we don't know. If you are saying that we can't trust our books, then what makes you think you should trust yours?

And besides, why should I believe anything you say? Show me a picture of one of these special textbooks. Post it here, DM it, whatever. Prove to me you aren't making this up. If you can't, I will automatically assume you are lying this off.

10% is also not a "Drop in the bucket". 10% is a reasonable chunk. Think of it in grades. If you have a 91%, that 10% makes a difference between an A and a B. If you didn't have that extra 10%, you would have an 81%.


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## xpoverzion (Jan 23, 2018)

blujay said:


> Here is what you fail to understand: Your history books are as biased towards you as our books are biased towards us. Whose version is correct? If your books are the only books that say that Israel obtained nuclear weaponry in the 1950s, and the rest say that you got them in the 60s, then whose is correct? Either one may be correct, or neither may be. The truth is that we don't know. If you are saying that we can't trust our books, then what makes you think you should trust yours?
> 
> And besides, why should I believe anything you say? Show me a picture of one of these special textbooks. Post it here, DM it, whatever. Prove to me you aren't making this up. If you can't, I will automatically assume you are lying this off.
> 
> 10% is also not a "Drop in the bucket". 10% is a reasonable chunk. Think of it in grades. If you have a 91%, that 10% makes a difference between an A and a B. If you didn't have that extra 10%, you would have an 81%.


A deeper analysis of Israels Nuclear history suggests that Israel was given the bombs in the mid 50's, and it wasn't until the 60's they they could independently produce their own bombs.  As for the history books, two authors you can start out with are Solomon Grayzel, and Louis Feldman.  The first paragraph in on of Grayzel's most important books starts out with, "Many people think that the history of the Jews is that of one that is far from the centers of civilization, and one that has had little influence on the course of humanity.  Quite contrary.  Hardly a single important event has happened throughout western history, that a Jew was not involved."  Oh.. Just so happened that it was the Rosenbergs that were behind giving the nuke blueprints to Russia.  When you start looking into it, Grayzel account of history is pretty accurate.  Also, if you think that a 10% stake in oil is worth spending trillions upon trillions, and spilling the blood of millions of people is a sound investment, then would definitely not want you making decisions with my business.  Meanwhile, as America spends trillions for this 10% stake, our infrastructure is falling apart, the middle class is disappearing, the medical system is a mess, the education system is falling behind, etc...  You should also ask yourself why it is that during the presidential elections, you have a myriad of candidates that oppose each other on just about every issue you can think of.  Healthcare, immigration, taxes, education, etc... But they ALL agree with eachother on one point.  They all pledge unconditional, support and aid to Israel, no matter what the cost.  That's because if they didn't, it would be political suicide for them, and they know it. Again, ask yourself why this is the case?

It's almost like the Matrix movie.  "This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the _red_ pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."  Judaism has been the Matrix throughout western history.  It's simply up to you if you decide to look into this further.  But I shall warn you.  When you do look into it, and you start to learn the truth, everytime you speak of this truth, you will be instantly branded a pariah.  Exactly how your masters like to see it.

And in the words of Voltaire... "If you want to know who rules over you, simple find out who it is that you are not allowed to criticize."  As mentioned above, at least your politicians know exactly who it is that they can't criticize, less they want to experience the ruin of their career.

You must work on your math as well.  10% is a drop in the bucket relatively speaking.  And, it doesn't work in that if you lose that 10%, it's like losing 20% and only having 80%.  With your math skills it's like saying that I'm used to consuming 10 slices of pizza a day, and if one slice is taken away, then I only end up with 8 slices of pizza each day????  To get my 10 slices back, after one slice was lost, I have to find two more slices of pizza???  Sorry, but that's not how math works.


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## MaverickWellington (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> A deeper analysis of Israels Nuclear history suggests that Israel was given the bombs in the mid 50's, and it wasn't until the 60's they they could independently produce their own bombs.  As for the history books, two authors you can start out with are Solomon Grayzel, and Louis Feldman.  The first paragraph in on of Grayzel's most important books starts out with, "Many people think that the history of the Jews is that of one that is far from the centers of civilization, and one that has had little influence on the course of humanity.  Quite contrary.  Hardly a single important event has happened throughout western history, that a Jew was not involved."  Oh.. Just so happened that it was the Rosenbergs that were behind giving the nuke blueprints to Russia.  When you start looking into it, Grayzel account of history is pretty accurate.  Also, if you think that a 10% stake in oil is worth spending trillions upon trillions, and spilling the blood of millions of people is a sound investment, then would definitely not want you making decisions with my business.  Meanwhile, as America spends trillions for this 10% stake, our infrastructure is falling apart, the middle class is disappearing, the medical system is a mess, the education system is falling behind, etc...  You should also ask yourself why it is that during the presidential elections, you have a myriad of candidates that oppose each other on just about every issue you can think of.  Healthcare, immigration, taxes, education, etc... But they ALL agree with eachother on one point.  They all pledge unconditional, support and aid to Israel, no matter what the cost.  That's because if they didn't, it would be political suicide for them, and they know it. Again, ask yourself why this is the case?
> 
> It's almost like the Matrix movie.  "This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the _red_ pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."  Judaism has been the Matrix throughout western history.  It's simply up to you if you decide to look into this further.  But I shall worn you.  When you do look into it, and you start to learn the truth, everytime you speak of this truth, you will be instantly branded a pariah.  Exactly how your masters like to see it.


I like how instead of posting a source you just went on to ramble more without one.
You'd think for someone trying to "redpill" people (seriously go back to /pol/ you stormweenie) you'd put a little more effort into it. No one worth talking to is going to be dumb enough to take a random post on the internet discussing history and conspiracy theories with zero evidence whatsoever (let alone credible evidence) at face value.


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## Deleted User (Jan 23, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> A deeper analysis of Israels Nuclear history suggests that Israel was given the bombs in the mid 50's, and it wasn't until the 60's they they could independently produce their own bombs.  As for the history books, two authors you can start out with are Solomon Grayzel, and Louis Feldman.  The first paragraph in on of Grayzel's most important books starts out with, "Many people think that the history of the Jews is that of one that is far from the centers of civilization, and one that has had little influence on the course of humanity.  Quite contrary.  Hardly a single important event has happened throughout western history, that a Jew was not involved."  Oh.. Just so happened that it was the Rosenbergs that were behind giving the nuke blueprints to Russia.  When you start looking into it, Grayzel account of history is pretty accurate.  Also, if you think that a 10% stake in oil is worth spending trillions upon trillions, and spilling the blood of millions of people is a sound investment, then would definitely not want you making decisions with my business.  Meanwhile, as America spends trillions for this 10% stake, our infrastructure is falling apart, the middle class is disappearing, the medical system is a mess, the education system is falling behind, etc...  You should also ask yourself why it is that during the presidential elections, you have a myriad of candidates that oppose each other on just about every issue you can think of.  Healthcare, immigration, taxes, education, etc... But they ALL agree with eachother on one point.  They all pledge unconditional, support and aid to Israel, no matter what the cost.  That's because if they didn't, it would be political suicide for them, and they know it. Again, ask yourself why this is the case?
> 
> It's almost like the Matrix movie.  "This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the _red_ pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."  Judaism has been the Matrix throughout western history.  It's simply up to you if you decide to look into this further.  But I shall warn you.  When you do look into it, and you start to learn the truth, everytime you speak of this truth, you will be instantly branded a pariah.  Exactly how your masters like to see it.


Someone needs to lay off the crack.

I know what religion is true. I have lived it, felt it, and participated in it.
There is nothing preventing me from reading the books you suggest. I probably will as I love reading textbooks and the like, but your thoughts and ideas are obviously skewed.


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## xpoverzion (Jan 24, 2018)

blujay said:


> Someone needs to lay off the crack.
> 
> I know what religion is true. I have lived it, felt it, and participated in it.
> There is nothing preventing me from reading the books you suggest. I probably will as I love reading textbooks and the like, but your thoughts and ideas are obviously skewed.


I assume you are a christian.  Hate to break it to you, but the Pharisees have you right where they want you.  You should listen to that guy named Jesus who gave his life so that you could know about them and how it works.  Love God, Love your neighbor, and be on your guard against the yeast of the pharisees.  For their yeast is that of lies, deceit, and hypocrisy.  It only takes a little yeast to spoil the entire batch.  Truely, these are words of wisdom for the ages...


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## Deleted User (Jan 24, 2018)

xpoverzion said:


> I assume you are a christian.  Hate to break it to you, but the Pharisees have you right where they want you.  You should listen to that guy named Jesus who gave his life so that you could know about them and how it works.  Love God, Love your neighbor, and be on your guard against the yeast of the pharisees.  For their yeast is that of lies, and deceit.  It only takes a little yeast to spoil the entire batch.  Truely, these are words of wisdom for the ages...


I don't think you know what religion I am. I know what is true, I know what to avoid, I know what to do with my life, I know what I need to do, and _you don't_. You know nothing of my life. You don't know if I've grown up a Christian. You don't know even know what kind of denomination I am given that I am Christian.

I know what is true.


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## xpoverzion (Jan 24, 2018)

blujay said:


> I don't think you know what religion I am. I know what is true, I know what to avoid, I know what to do with my life, I know what I need to do, and _you don't_. You know nothing of my life. You don't know if I've grown up a Christian. You don't know even know what kind of denomination I am given that I am Christian.
> 
> I know what is true.


That's really good for you!  Happy to hear that.


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Jan 24, 2018)

Just wanted to leave this here, since I'm sure we've all met "Christian" people that sure don't act as such:


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## brickmii82 (Jan 24, 2018)

“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.”-Matthew 10:14

I think it’s quite clear that it’s time to leave this thread. God bless and love to you all.


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## DeoNaught (Jan 24, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.”-Matthew 10:14
> 
> I think it’s quite clear that it’s time to leave this thread. God bless and love to you all.


Lemme follow you


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## Pacheko17 (Jan 24, 2018)

MaverickWellington said:


> Imagine coming to a gaming board centered around hacking and modding, as well as just general video games with a negative outlook on them to cry about jews



But we're not on a gaming board though, that just makes no sense.


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## Deleted User (Jan 24, 2018)

Pacheko17 said:


> But we're not on a gaming board though, that just makes no sense.


That is what Maverick was implying


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