# Retired, Patriotic WWII Vet writes a letter to Obama



## Uncle FEFL (Nov 30, 2009)

For those of us who are interested in what a retired military has to say:

"BMC Harold Estes is real. In 2005 he was the president of the Honolulu Council of the Navy League of the United States.
This venerable and much honored WW II vet is well known in Hawaii
for his seventy-plus years of service to patriotic organizations and causes
all over the country. A humble man without a political bone in his body,
he has never spoken out before about a government official, until now.
He dictated this letter to a friend, signed it and mailed it to the
president.

Dear President Obama,

My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year.
People meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain
wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.
I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly
before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos'n Mate.
Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western end of Pearl Harbor
allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.
One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one,
is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man.
So here goes.
I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do
but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.
I can't figure out what country you are the president of. You fly around the
world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:
" We're no longer a Christian nation"
" America is arrogant" - (Your wife even
announced to the world," America is mean-
spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching
that nonsense to 23 generations of our
war dead buried all over the globe who
died for no other reason than to free a
whole lot of strangers from tyranny and
hopelessness.)

I'd say shame on the both of you but I don't think you like America nor
do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do for the obvious gifts
this country has given you To be without shame or gratefulness is a
dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."
Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that
11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British?
Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man that
500,000 men died for in the Civil War ? I hope you didn't mean the ideal
470,000 fathers, brothers,husbands,and a lot of fellas I knew personally
died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation
push us around because we stand for freedom.

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than
discrimination. You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood
when they helped to get you elected.

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.
Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I
can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue
..You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of
murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to
jump to conclusions and conde mn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his
fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do
what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college
professor in Massachusetts who was putting up a fight ? You don't mind
offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend
Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are,terrorists.

One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had
to defend your country with your life but you're the Commander-in-Chief
now,son. Do your job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for
40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him. But if you're
not in this fight to win, then get out. The life of one American soldier is
not worth the best political strategy you're thinking of.

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest
challenge ever presented to any president.
You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our
bloated economy. That's not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul
of who we are as Americans is our big fight now. And I sure as hell don't
want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle.

Sincerely,
Harold B. Estes"

When a 95 year old hero of the "the Greatest Generation"
stands up and speaks out like this, I think we owe it
to him to send his words to as many Americans as
we can. Please pass it on. 


I got this from Serenes Forest. He didn't link to any article.

Discuss. This is pretty powerful, IMO. In most cases, I think he's right.


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## silent sniper (Nov 30, 2009)

tbh, i think this guys a douche.


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## outgum (Nov 30, 2009)

i agree, The letter writer is a douche
Just cause things arnt how HE wants them, doesnt mean he can full scale attack.
and in my opinion he needs to show alittle more respect, i doubt he could run a country >_>


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## DarkSpace (Nov 30, 2009)

Interesting, yet he has a good point. Caling this 95 year old a douche doesn't change the fact that he's has some valid points.


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## dragon574444 (Nov 30, 2009)

I feel the opposite of what you guys are. It might be because neither of you are American...but this letter has a lot of power, and every point stated is true. America is going in the wrong direction, this man sees that and wrote to the man responsible. I don't see any douche-ness in it at all. Really, I don't see how anyone could take this offensively...


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## Domination (Nov 30, 2009)

A patriot doesn't make someone a possible candidate to run a country.

While I am not American, so I cannot accept his "American Spirtit/Dream". Fuck that, the U.S. economy is more important, it is not just the U.S. You are just being a American supremist, because an U.S. economy rebound is good for the WHOLE world.

"You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves" What? At least HE is not treating you all like slaves. And what he is doing is something Americans full of hot air like him don't know, courtesy. Thats why America is arrogant. The past century, Americans like him have been living in good life, no matter how hard he says his life in WWII is. You don't even know courtesy.

Most probably a republican.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 30, 2009)

There's no such thing as patriotism. Republicans think they're patriots. Democrats think they're patriots. The crazies who assemble arsenals for revolution think they're patriotic. I don't care about patriotism. It's a pointless flaw that makes people not think about themselves. And in life, you come first, other things second. You can't help other people if you can't help yourself.


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## dragon574444 (Nov 30, 2009)

I kinda fail to see what's wrong with being a republican...It's better than being a communist socialist promoting government control like Obama


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## Uncle FEFL (Nov 30, 2009)

Obama is no where NEAR being a socialist, dude.  Jjust as sure as my dick is 2,000 inches long is that man a socialist.


This guy is obviously a nationalist, so he feels some sort of pride to his country. No one can call him "wrong" for that.

Additionally, this guy is not a douche (kinda blinded by patriotism), and some of his points are actually valid (IMO).


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## dragon574444 (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm afraid it's called socialized health care for a reason. How about his plan to "spread the wealth around?" We the people (see; congress, "we the people" don't get to vote on any of this) are giving the government our money and letting them redistribute it at will. Welfare, medicare, Social Security, all of the government agencies, like the EPA and FDA. 60% of our income goes to the government. I wonder how much they'll need to put Obama's socialized medicine bill in...


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## Ace Gunman (Nov 30, 2009)

No offense intended, but I don't believe being a veteran makes one a political expert. He's seen and done amazing and terrifying things, but that doesn't make his viewpoint any more valid than the next. Not to say it's not valid, it's just no more valid than the opinions of anyone else just because he happened to kill for his country. The ability to do so does not necessarily make one fit to lead.

On top of that, I don't think a 95 year old man, no matter how alert he may be, is fit to dictate modern politics. He came from a time were segregation, anti-Semitic, sexist, and homophobic behavior, blacklisting, rampant sexism, wife and child abuse, tobacco for everyone and drunk driving were considered the _standard_. The version of America he fought for would go on, post-WWII to continue African-American lynchings, and mass communist hysteria. If you weren't a Caucasian, red, white, and blue blooded American you were a _"damn commie and deserved whatever you got_", in those days.

The fact of the matter is, America took a bad turn over the last decade or so. Canada included, so North America as a whole. Let me quote you an excerpt from a statement I made to a friend recently, summing up the liberal and conservative sects of government:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Conservatives dislike change. They don't like anything rocking the boat. Their entire viewpoint is based around keeping things the same. But by that same token, their primary skillset comes into play with making the best of what they have. They take what they have, and do as much with it as possible. They may fear change, for the same legitimate and illegitimate reasons that we all do... but they make due and work with the world they have rather than the world that could be.
> 
> Liberals are driven by the idea of change. The system is never quite good enough. Which is generally true, as the system does have a great many flaws. They won't stop for anything in order to alter the way things work, and this often comes with seemingly outrageous leaps in policy and spending. However, their strongest point is that they do in fact change the system for the better, and although it will cost in the long run, the longterm payoffs will be huge.
> 
> ...


The USA is not inherently better than any other country simply because it's the USA. And that's the majority of the problem. When President Obama states something like _"America has been arrogant"_, which I'm sure is a bastardized version of the actual statement, he's not wrong. The problem comes from the fact that "true patriots" believe their country, any country, is immune to arrogance. Here's an example as to why...

Take the health care reform debate. A large portion of the US is positively up in arms over the idea. _"How dare Obama want such a thing!"_, they say. _"It will never work!"_, they exclaim. Well that's the perfect example of the inverted and, yes, often times arrogant view of the United States. Every other successful country _in the world_ has universal health care. But where the issue lies, is that historically the US doesn't look at anyone but the US.

It's a system that takes insurance out of the hands of greedy insurance companies, makes those $50,000 operations you could never afford if you broke your leg cost you literally _nothing_; and to clarify, no, you've heard wrong, in almost every country with universal health care it has virtually no impact on taxes. No more ridiculously overpriced doctors/medical services/insurance, essentially.

Yet there's still this incredibly vocal group of Americans, where if they'd only look outside their borders to ANY OTHER COUNTRY would realize that it works for everyone else. There's nothing inherently unique about the US that would make a globally tested and established system suddenly implode upon itself.

There is nothing terribly wrong with the United States of America either, but like any person, group, or country, it does makes mistakes and have flaws. What they need to do is realize that they are not flawless. Don't get me wrong, at the moment I'd call it a nicer place to live than Canada, since our leadership continues to be a poor man's version of the Bush administration. But _"Better than Canada as it stands"_ isn't much of a compliment, I'm afraid.

What the president is doing is something that has eluded North America for the last decade or so. He's looking to the larger world outside instead of staying in a secluded state of inversion while telling off every other country that isn't the United States. One can only stay locked in their fortress of solitude for so long before they must go out into the world and scavenge for materials.


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## outgum (Nov 30, 2009)

Just... This ^^
You could not have put that ANY better Ace.
Although, im probably completely wrong, but i feel you contridicte yourself just ALITTLE in some places


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## Ace Gunman (Nov 30, 2009)

outgum said:
			
		

> Just... This ^^
> You could not have put that ANY better Ace.
> Although, im probably completely wrong, but i feel you contridicte yourself just ALITTLE in some places


Hm? Really? I didn't notice, but if that is the case it's not entirely surprising, as I was trying to strike a balance between my interpretation of the conservative and liberal viewpoints.


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## Disturbed1 (Nov 30, 2009)

FEFL said:
			
		

> Please pass it on.
> 
> I got this from Serenes Forest. He didn't link to any article.



Sounds like a bad Republican chain letter to me.


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## yuyuyup (Nov 30, 2009)

Neocons are scared to listen to Thom Hartman, they need to listen to dumbasses that justify trillions spent in a dumbass war, justify "oh god can't SOCIALIZE medicine, but don't take away my MEDICARE"


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## Linkiboy (Nov 30, 2009)

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

He has no valid points.


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## Uncle FEFL (Nov 30, 2009)

dragon574444 said:
			
		

> I'm afraid it's called socialized health care for a reason. How about his plan to "spread the wealth around?" We the people (see; congress, "we the people" don't get to vote on any of this) are giving the government our money and letting them redistribute it at will. Welfare, medicare, Social Security, all of the government agencies, like the EPA and FDA. 60% of our income goes to the government. I wonder how much they'll need to put Obama's socialized medicine bill in...We've been a "mixed" economic country for a while, Dragon. There's communism-inspired agencies everywhere. That being said, this doesn't mean we are like China, et cetera. Our main focus --the free market-- isn't in danger at all. Obama is all for free market. Besides, socialists reject the very thought of "Obama a socialist!"
> 
> EDIT: Forgot a word
> 
> ...


Yeah, it does... :/


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## Overlord Nadrian (Nov 30, 2009)

Linkiboy said:
			
		

> "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw
> 
> He has no valid points.


+1

It's not because he's a war veteran he can change the world...


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## htoxad (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm glad this patriot is giving up his government run VA healthcare and/or Medicare and getting the free market to take care of him.


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## zeromac (Nov 30, 2009)

Viva la Revlution!!


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## Danny600kill (Nov 30, 2009)

I think this man has some valid points and he should be taken seriously as he fought for his country in their time of need. Like many people posting here im not American and so i dont know everything but i do think he has some very powerful word that all countrys should listen to.

A lot of people here will be saying how much of an idiot he is for bieng disrespectful but thats what need to be done. Nothing is ever goin to change is everyone just kisses up to the higher power. People like Nelson Mandella would never had got anywhere if he hadn't of stood up and showed his views.

So yes in a way it is just and old man venting about problems but at least he is doing something to help change. People will say ' Just because he says stuff doesnt mean it will happen' but if everyone agrees and does something about it, and no im not saying resort to violence but if we all just speak up then we can change things for the better.

Again im not American and im only 16 and so people may just ignore this post but this is the same for every country and every age. just because your'e younger or in a different country with less rights doesn't stop you standing up and wanting change.

There's my views vented and im guessing that not many people will bother reading it, but at least im trying to get my views across.

Thnx for reading it ( If you did )


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## Veho (Nov 30, 2009)

What exactly is he saying? Is he going anywhere with that letter or is he just rambling? People keep mentioning "good points," but I see no points, good or otherwise.


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## outgum (Nov 30, 2009)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> So yes in a way it is just and old man venting about problems but at least he is doing something to help change. People will say ' Just because he says stuff doesnt mean it will happen' but if everyone agrees and does something about it, and no im not saying resort to violence but if we all just speak up then we can change things for the better.



I dont think what he said promotes or contribrutes to ANY change, and also , just because he thought for his country doesnt give him a right to tell the PRESIDENT how to do things, like i said earlier, would you want him running the country? With his 50-60-70's releated ideas? no.

Change is necessary and apart of life, and he needs to move on


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 30, 2009)

This is a completely different time.....

The America of today faces completely different challenges than the American of WWII did.  There was no threat of nuclear holocaust.  There were no suicide bombings or hijacked planes.  There wasn't the fear that our population would grow faster than our ability to take care of it.  

I applaud the people who step out in front and defend their country.  However, the vast majority of people do not enlist.  They just sit back and take advantage of the freedoms they have.  That is what makes Americans "arrogant" and "ignorant".  I guess a fitting analogy would be that you take better care of stuff that you bought with your own money.  Meaning, the people who have invested nothing will fail to appreciate what they have.

IMHO, no country can afford to be an island anymore.  Technology has changed that.  Every country has some sort of socio-economic investment in the well-being of every other country.  I think Obama sees that much more so than the previous administration did.  I'm just sorry that the America BMC Harold Estes fought for, isn't the same as the America he's living in now.


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## Veho (Nov 30, 2009)

FEFL said:
			
		

> " America is arrogant" - (Your wife even announced to the world," America is mean-spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching that nonsense to 23 generations of our war dead buried all over the globe who died for no other reason than to free a whole lot of strangers from tyranny and hopelessness.)


Their deeds and deaths don't place modern day America above reproach, and it is _arrogant_ to claim that they do. Hiding behind someone _else's_ valor and sacrifice is _arrogant_. He acts like he's never reprimanded anyone in his life. I wonder how he would react if someone he told off told him to "try preaching that nonsense to our war dead." Modern day America is enjoying and abusing the freedom and way of life those soldiers' deaths made possible, and hiding behind those same dead soldiers from any criticism. That _is_ arrogant. 

It's like all the people saying "you don't have the right to criticize me, we saved your ass in WW2." Wrong. _You_ didn't save anyone. _You_ weren't even born. Your _father_ wasn't born. Your _grandfather_ probably hadn't been born in time to fight in the war. Something your _great-grandfather_ did does not put _you_ above reproach, it doesn't make _you_ a holy cow that nobody can touch. I'm grateful to your _great-grandfather_, not you. And most importantly, I'm not criticizing _him_, I'm criticizing _you._ 

I agree, all this still doesn't give outsiders the "right" to criticize America. True. However, in this case, it's not outsiders. The one doing it is an _American_, and has every right to do it, and nobody has the right to hide from that criticism behing dead people's merits.


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## outgum (Nov 30, 2009)

if they achieved so much, Why are they dead? XD


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## Canonbeat234 (Dec 1, 2009)

Okay this is what I have to say to all of this...For starters Harold is only speaking from a point-of-view that only had worked in his generation instead of today. Like Ace have typed, he grew up in the 50's, 60's, 70's which to me he only remembers the patriotism of this country not realizing that WWI and WWII were both costly wars; in money and casualties. 

Obama is a President who is trying to please everyone; What I can remember is you can't please EVERYONE! He was so quick to make the gay/lesbians/trans month be in June but can't make more jobs available in America? Its the main reason why medicaid/food-stamps/section 8 are skyrocketing right now because the few Americans who are trying to find a job right now are worrying how to pay their rent, having medical coverage, and what are they going to eat? If Obama want to fix the damn economy in United States, he needs to start building more opening job positions with or without diplomas. 

Guess what war we are fighting right now? An endless war! This whole 'sending more troops into Iraq/Arabic Country to stop the Muslim Radicals' is impossible. We are fighting against a belief that isn't even ours to begin with. When we took down Saddam Hussein statue that should have been the end of it, troops return home and that's it. Not for the troops to go there fighting endlessly of muslim radicals that will keep popping up while they have to defend for their lives. You wonder to know why majority of people aren't volunteering to go to the Army unless they have that patriotic pride.


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## Uncle FEFL (Dec 1, 2009)

Veho said:
			
		

> What exactly is he saying? Is he going anywhere with that letter or is he just rambling? People keep mentioning "good points," but I see no points, good or otherwise.


When he says "not bow, kiss..." he's speaking of the _two_ instances Obama _bowed_ to his equals. I'm of Japan and Saudi Arabia. He bowed to both of them during his visits, and Japan merely nodded at him; Saudi Arabia showed nothing.

What type of president bows to equals? Just what is Obama trying to really prove?


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## Domination (Dec 1, 2009)

LOL, he should ask himself what kind of patriot criticizes a president that got over 300 votes from the electoral college, when I doubt he could even get 10.

So you are angry over an over courteous president? At least no body throws shoes at him.


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## Veho (Dec 1, 2009)

FEFL said:
			
		

> _two_ instances Obama _bowed_ to his equals. I'm of Japan and Saudi Arabia.


Well, when in Rome...


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## iPikachu (Dec 1, 2009)

"but you don't want us to offend
Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are,terrorists."
^ wut
umm, muslim fanatics will always be terrorists? is my definition of fanatics wrong? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




dont people in japan greet by bowing? not sure about saudi arabia though.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Dec 1, 2009)

Interesting read. It will be more interesting to read Obama's reply, if it ever materializes.


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## emigre (Dec 2, 2009)

Without tryng to sound like a twat but I struggle to beleive this is even real (sorry I like my sources) let alone it has valid points.

It's written in a painful patriotic style,  "I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do
but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish." Sorry but let's be rational, the Us is going to be there long after me, you and Keith Richards die. America being arrogant and mean-spirted arn't despicable lies, it's the truth that tinted rose patriots don't seem willing to admit. US Foreign Policy under Bush was fucking atrocious, they were so hell bent going into Iraq under the guise of WMD despite UN weapon inspectors not finding trace. When Israel attacked Palestine in teh last year, there was no condemanation. (Though I guess they weren't being that much twats, the UK sold Israel £20 million of weapons, yet we called for restraint) Defending your country is acceptable and understandable, but when you get into tangents and ignore rational advice and subsequebtly make the situation even worse then you should have a review on your policies.

When he goes on about personal liberty does he seem to forget about Guantanamo Bay?

Or should I mention the CIA's role in bringng down the democratically elected Salvador Allende becasue he was a *gasp* socialist! As Allende is so clearly evil we must bring him down and replace him with Pinochet. You know, the man was essentially a dictator with no election, saw greater inequality and violated human rights. ( I know about Thatcher's relationship with Pinochet) 

Or how about Mossedaq in Iran?

Or how the US trained Osama Bin Laden and had a alliance with Saddam Hussain... 

I'll be frank, I'm not anti-Amercian and I'm just seeing this as I see it.  To quote the speech, America needs to "shape up." I hope Obama succeds in chagning the world' view of America into something more positive, he's an excellant orator and very likable. Personally I wish he had done a lot of things different such as call off the extradition of Gary McKinnon.

Though I have to say, I do doubt that the majorty of Obama's critisicsm is actually valid, I read in the paper that something like only 1 in 4 Republicans actually beleive that Obama won the election fairly. If most people have made thier minds up without even looking at the facts, then I have little hope that these people will think rationaly.

Las thing, Obama isn't a fucking Socialist or Communist. You have to be be fucking idiot to think that, "oh he wants socialised healthcare! Evil!." Get a fucking grip, every other western democracy has it and it's genrally successfull. Also what kind of Patriot wants to deny thirty million of thier fellow citizens healthcare?

Apologies for any grammer and spelling mistakes.


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## Veho (Dec 3, 2009)

emigre said:
			
		

> Also what kind of Patriot wants to deny thirty million of thier fellow citizens healthcare?


Patriotism is love for one's _country_, not one's country_men_


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## enarky (Dec 3, 2009)

IANAA (I Am Not An American), but I stopped reading at "_despicable lies like: " We're no longer a Christian nation"_". Bullshit.


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## BlueStar (Dec 3, 2009)

So that's what patriots do nowadays, slag off their country to the world and talk uninformed, poisonous shit about the person the country voted to lead them?

Seems a funny kind of patriotism to me.

Are GOP wing-nuts as willing to take the word of war-hero veterans as gospel when they say things like this?


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## Cermage (Dec 3, 2009)

seems to me this guys idea of a true "American" is exactly what the rest of the world is tired of seeing/hearing.  Also what the current America wants to grow out of.


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## emigre (Dec 3, 2009)

Veho said:
			
		

> emigre said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My bad, they love the soil more then the people  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I like how those who agree with the letter are in the minority.


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## Veho (Dec 3, 2009)

So has the authenticity of this letter been confirmed? I have my doubts towards any proclamation that starts by assuring us the person in question is real. It usually raises a tiny flag labeled "bullshit," but I remembered Joe the plumber and I thought this was a jab at him. "Unlike Joe the Plumber, _our_ guy is for real."


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## Defiance (Dec 3, 2009)

Ahh, reading his email gave me a little hope to humanity..   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Although I wouldn't expect a reply...  :/  the President is probably far too busy.


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## bnwchbammer (Dec 4, 2009)

dragon574444 said:
			
		

> I kinda fail to see what's wrong with being a republican...It's better than being a communist socialist promoting government control like Obama
> 
> That's... stupid. No more comments.
> 
> ...



That last line was a joke right? Please tell me it was, cuz I laughed as if it was a great sarcastic joke.


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## TrolleyDave (Dec 4, 2009)

dragon574444 said:
			
		

> I kinda fail to see what's wrong with being a republican...It's better than being a communist socialist promoting government control like Obama



And the problem with socialism or communism is?  And you do also realise that socialism and communism are two completely seperate things don't you?  Socialism is far better then capitalism. 

I really don't get the problem some Americans seem to have about socialised anything, specially socialised health care.  Why is it so bad for people to have free and decent health care?  How can anyone begrudge paying a little extra tax to make sure that some kid with cancer can get all the treatment he needs?  Or if a kid is disfigured in an attack by a dog (or similar animal) and needs plastic surgery why would you begrudge him getting it simply because his parents can't afford it?  Or what about the kid that's incredibly sick but his parents are drug addicts, shouldn't he be entitled to health care and all the medicine he needs to get better?

Who could be that selfish that they think sick people getting treated regardless of wealth is some kind of "evil".  Stop listening to the people making profits off the sick and dying and are worried that they'll have to find some one else to leech from.  If the amount you're currently paying towards medical insurance was instead put towards socialised health care what's the big deal?  You're still out of pocket by exactly the same amount BUT you don't have to worry about being denied health care because someone's looking to make a few extra bucks for the shareholders.  PLUS you don't have to worry about whether your family, friends, neighbours and everyone else in your country are getting decent health care.


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