# Why are the "black pride" colors allowed in the LGBT+ flag when homophobia and transphobia are rampant in the black community?



## City (Aug 31, 2022)

The first time I saw the "new flag" I didn't get it, and I still don't get it now. African countries have notoriously been very homophobic and transphobic, the same goes for african american communities and the black church.

To me, it feels like yet another thing that the black community desperately wants to appropiate. Either that or some activists were so desperate to appear woke that they let them in.

One could argue that the colors are there to represent black LGBT members, but isn't a fucking rainbow supposed to show inclusiveness to everyone? What does "black pride" have to do with LGBT? What are you proud of your community of? Calling homosexuality a sin to God? Raping lesbian women to "fix" them?


EDIT: I also don't get why we needed the trans flag colors in there too, when a rainbow is supposed to cover everything. What do you think the "T" stands for in LGBT? Trypophobia? Besides, you can be a transitioned person and be straight. I like it better when two flags are allowed to be there instead of a mixed one.


EDIT2: this was moved from the LGBT+ tempers group for some reason.


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## x65943 (Aug 31, 2022)

That's a lot to unpack and feels somewhat purposely disingenuous in places

"African countries have notoriously been very homophobic and transphobic"

These countries are also deeply religious, you will find other deeply religious/theocratic countries to share similar homophobic tendencies. Think the middle east, Indonesia. (Especially abrahamic tradition)

"the black church"

such a statement is meaningless, as no such thing exists. You could say black christian churches tend to...etc - but even then it would be a broad generalization even if probably mostly true (although same could be said for all churches, weird to single out black churches)

"(yet another thing) the black community desperately wants to appropiate"

again, feels a bit like you have some strange agenda. All cultures appropriate from others, and I think it's odd you are calling out one culture in particular. 

"What does "black pride" have to do with LGBT?"

I don't even really think you misunderstand what you're saying, I think you are pretending to misunderstand. It's not blackpride man, it's just there to represent BIPOC. It's a show of support. This isn't meant to totally replace the pride flag, but to be a more inclusive version. To say, hey group that has been historically marginalized - we hear you.

"don't get why we needed the trans flag colors"

Again, trans people have been historically marginalized even within the gay community, and let's not forget that flag didn't start as the LGBT flag, it was the gay pride flag. It represented one letter. You can say that's changed somewhat - but again if a group of people wants to be more inclusive let them.

Are you part of the LGBT community? If not, what do you care anyway about the flags people do or do not want to associate with?


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## City (Aug 31, 2022)

Again, I have no idea how to quote properly so forgive the bullet list:


x65943 said:


> That's a lot to unpack and feels somewhat purposely disingenuous in places
> 
> "African countries have notoriously been very homophobic and transphobic"
> 
> ...


- African countries like Chad, Madagascar and Congo are very NOT religious, as well as many more.
- ???
- Wouldn't be the first thing they tried to appropriate and then make a fuss about it when others use them (dreadlocks, rap and so on)
- You know what I, a member of the LGBT community support? Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, Trans people and every person facing discrimination for those factors. It just feels weird to me to mix these two groups together when one is notoriously anti-gay, like making a flag for republican gay pride
- If we're talking about marginalization within the community, I can assure you that everyone at some point got marginalized: lesbians weren't "real gays", bisexuals weren't "real gays", trans people weren't "real gays", even to be gay you needed to be a certain level of gay. Then there were people discriminalizing tops and bottoms, or based around their body type and so on. Yes, it's 100% retarded. That's why I don't like to give these people any credit. To me trans people are as much valued as everyone else in the community
- I'm married to a woman but I'm bisexual. I've been discriminated by everyone, even within the LGBT community. But I understand that hating on bisexuals isn't typical from the community, just boils down to individuals being assholes. I can't say the same for the black community, though, where homophobia seems to be glorified.


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## x65943 (Aug 31, 2022)

City said:


> Again, I have no idea how to quote properly so forgive the bullet list:
> 
> - African countries like Chad, Madagascar and Congo are very NOT religious, as well as many more.
> - ???
> ...


I suggest you fact check your sources more,

Chad




Madagascar



DRC (Congo)






Your strange grouping of black people into some uniquely homophobic group continues to be frankly irrelevant to the fact that many BIPOC are LGBT. Again, if you don't like the inclusion aspect you can sport the gay pride flag. If people want the more inclusive version more power to them. And yes it's true BIPOC and trans members of LGBT have it much rougher in general in all terms including lower SES, higher rates of substance abuse, higher rates of policing etc.


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## City (Aug 31, 2022)

x65943 said:


> I suggest you fact check your sources more,
> 
> Chad
> View attachment 325145
> ...


So let me get this straight: it's fine for people to consider the black community as a whole when it comes to things that benefit them, but not to criticize them? In every research I've seen, black people tend to be more homophobic. Why do you think that happens?

I have nothing against black LGBT members, just like I have nothing against gay american republicans. But claiming that republicans deserve recognition and that we should put an elephant in the LGBT+ flag is ridicolous. I just don't think that "black pride" should belong in the LGBT+ flag.

As for the religious parts of Africa, I'll get back to that as soon as I look deeper into it.


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## x65943 (Aug 31, 2022)

City said:


> So let me get this straight: it's fine for people to consider the black community as a whole when it comes to things that benefit them, but not to criticize them? In every research I've seen, black people tend to be more homophobic. Why do you think that happens?
> 
> I have nothing against black LGBT members, just like I have nothing against gay american republicans. But claiming that republicans deserve recognition and that we should put an elephant in the LGBT+ flag is ridicolous. I just don't think that "black pride" should belong in the LGBT+ flag.
> 
> As for the religious parts of Africa, I'll get back to that as soon as I look deeper into it.


It's not black pride, it's black inclusion. And it's not black people in general, it's BIPOC who happen to be LGBT who also happen to be the most marginalized by far

and honestly no point in continuing this line of reasoning because you have made up your mind


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## City (Aug 31, 2022)

x65943 said:


> It's not black pride, it's black inclusion. And it's not black people in general, it's BIPOC who happen to be LGBT who also happen to be the most marginalized by far
> 
> and honestly no point in continuing this line of reasoning because you have made up your mind


Then why are all the sources I'm finding talking about the colors as "black pride"? Also, I'm not sure they're the most marginalized. A gay man is still gay and gross whether their skin color is. People tend to turn a blind eye on women because it's "less gross" according to them, or even hot.


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## DinohScene (Sep 7, 2022)

Inclusivity or something.... Idfk

The original rainbow flag was meant for every person that has a different orientation or gender.
These new flags purely exist for attention seeking.

Imo, I don't recognise any flag other then the 6 colour rainbow one.


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## Valwinz (Sep 7, 2022)

because the whole LGBT stuff is a joke at this point


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## urherenow (Sep 7, 2022)

Funny. I’ve known a lot of gay black men. Saw a group of openly gay black women walking around Just today. Also funny how many people who proudly identify as one or more of minority/repressed groups, seem to be every bit as racist and oppressive as the people they accuse of being so…

Not haha funny. WTF, funny.


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## Acid_Snake (Sep 7, 2022)

I've seen homosexuals wearing Che Guevara T-Shirt, a man who sent countless homosexuals to concetration camps under the motto "Work will make you a man" (which was itself taken from Nazi Germany's concentration camps motto "Work will make you Free"). Even today one of the most famous Cuban dissident in Florida that helps uncover the attrocities of the Cuban dictatorship is a homosexual.

When they were not killed or sent to concentration camps, they were simply exiled from the country in the same boats as other common criminals. The same would happen to Christians.

Fidel Castro called the homosexuals a bunch of "feminoid burgoise" that "such degeneracy" had no place in the socialist society that needs "real men" because "revolutionaries must be a cold killing machine".


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

urherenow said:


> Funny. I’ve known a lot of gay black men. Saw a group of openly gay black women walking around Just today. Also funny how many people who proudly identify as one or more of minority/repressed groups, seem to be every bit as racist and oppressive as the people they accuse of being so…
> 
> Not haha funny. WTF, funny.


Just to be clear: are you accusing me of racism?


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## MohammedQ8 (Sep 8, 2022)

What does the + stand for? Downloadable content?


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## MohammedQ8 (Sep 8, 2022)

Stop pretending that every gay guy likes lesbians or like transgenders ….. everyone is different and have somethings that disgust them.

No one is pure.


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## urherenow (Sep 8, 2022)

City said:


> Just to be clear: are you accusing me of racism?


The way you use "black" in every other sentence?  The way you group them together?


> " I can't say the same for the black community, though, where homophobia seems to be glorified."


The way you had to be called out on false "facts"?

Yes. You're exactly the person you pretend to hate. Are you American? If you are, that's even worse. In America, we have both freedom of speech and freedom of expression. If your feelings are hurt because someone says something mean about gay people, it's on YOU. If your feelings are hurt because someone decided that they want to show support for both LGTBQ AND black pride, and got artistic with it for whatever reason (cheaper than 2 separate flags)... that's YOUR problem. YOU are making a conscious decision to be upset by it, and deciding on your own that it's disrespectful to you. And finally, you are openly stating that you feel this way, because you group a (presumably) majority of black people into an LGBTQ+ hating mob.

You're a hypocrite. Exactly like the women's rights people who fundraise for "equality" by selling things at a cheaper price for women than for men.


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

urherenow said:


> The way you use "black" in every other sentence?  The way you group them together?
> 
> The way you had to be called out on false "facts"?
> 
> ...


There are countless research papers that confirm what I said. Are they racist too?


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## urherenow (Sep 8, 2022)

City said:


> There are countless research papers that confirm what I said. Are they racist too?


Wrong. There are a finite number of papers that support your confirmation bias. Have any of those papers interviewed all black people separately and in private? How about 5% of them? Stigma and peer pressure are real things. People and groups that have power, tend to exert that power, good or bad, and can cause fear, leading to dishonest responses. Most gay men in Russia are not going to admit on an "anonymous" online survey that they had sex with another man in the past week. This doesn't make it fair game to call "most" of Russians homophobes, does it?

Let go of the hate, dude. You'll be happier and probably live longer by brushing off what a homophobe says to you, and just KNOW that the person is wrong, an idiot, whatever...

EDIT: Oh, and if someone wants to incorporate a flag that you love into their own work, you should really ask yourself what the intent is. Did they do it for a reason that discredits or ridicules it/you? If not, you can choose to be proud that they appreciate "your" flag enough to combine it with "theirs". And that mindset will make you feel better


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## Viri (Sep 8, 2022)

The old pride flag looked the best, and was nice to look at. The new one is fugly as hell. The old one represented everyone, and never needed a change.


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

urherenow said:


> Wrong. There are a finite number of papers that support your confirmation bias. Have any of those papers interviewed all black people separately and in private? How about 5% of them? Stigma and peer pressure are real things. People and groups that have power, tend to exert that power, good or bad, and can cause fear, leading to dishonest responses. Most gay men in Russia are not going to admit on an "anonymous" online survey that they had sex with another man in the past week. This doesn't make it fair game to call "most" of Russians homophobes, does it?
> 
> Let go of the hate, dude. You'll be happier and probably live longer by brushing off what a homophobe says to you, and just KNOW that the person is wrong, an idiot, whatever...
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and if someone wants to incorporate a flag that you love into their own work, you should really ask yourself what the intent is. Did they do it for a reason that discredits or ridicules it/you? If not, you can choose to be proud that they appreciate "your" flag enough to combine it with "theirs". And that mindset will make you feel better


You poor, poor kid. Keep living in the fantasy world of Twitter while gays and trans people get killed by the usual suspects, backed up with data. That will surely own the republicans.


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## urherenow (Sep 8, 2022)

City said:


> You poor, poor kid. Keep living in the fantasy world of Twitter while gays and trans people get killed by the usual suspects, backed up with data. That will surely own the republicans.


What does that even mean "own the republicans? Like zero republicans are in that community? None of them voted to re-elect Trump? https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...licans-why-they-re-backing-president-n1243469

And how does getting off of the black train, and jumping on another group of people prove me wrong about you?

I'm no kid. I'm a retired Chief Petty Officer, and never allowed discrimination of any kind in my workplace. I would have taken a piece of crap like you and kicked you out. You've shown your true colors here, and they aren't pretty. And for a second, I was trying to empathize with your crying about how you were always marginalized...  but YOU are the one marginalizing.


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

urherenow said:


> What does that even mean "own the republicans? Like zero republicans are in that community? None of them voted to re-elect Trump? https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...licans-why-they-re-backing-president-n1243469
> 
> And how does getting off of the black train, and jumping on another group of people prove me wrong about you?
> 
> I'm no kid. I'm a retired Chief Petty Officer, and never allowed discrimination of any kind in my workplace. I would have taken a piece of crap like you and kicked you out. You've shown your true colors here, and they aren't pretty. And for a second, I was trying to empathize with your crying about how you were always marginalized...  but YOU are the one marginalizing.


You clearly are unhinged, it's crazy.

Let me explain this to you one more time, in a way that even a kid with special needs can understand:

- The black community is notoriously homophobic and transphobic. This is a fact
- Despite this, in the LGBT flag, there are now "black pride" colors, that have nothing to do with one's sexuality
- I asked why
- You went full twitter and called me racist


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## leejaclane (Sep 8, 2022)

If anyone is calling you a racist, it's because you're making a blatantly bad faith argument intended to stir up antiblack racism by falsely implying black people are significantly more homophobic/transphobic than white people, which is categorically untrue and part of an age-old reactionary push to 1) absolve themselves by blaming another marginalized group, and 2) pit different marginalized groups against each other to prevent building solidarity between marginalized communities (communities which incidentally are not mutually exclusive), as well as ignoring the fact that there are just as many LGBT black people as LGBT white people, and LGBT people of color face a significant degree of racism from white people within the LGBT community.

If you cared to research the history of the flag by, say, doing a single internet search, you'd know that the pride flag with black & brown stripes is specifically intended to draw attention to racism faced by LGBT people of color within the LGBT community and to be more welcoming to LGBT people of color, it's not including people of color who are not LGBT or equating blackness with sexuality/gender. People in this thread have already told you that. The white LGBT community is notoriously racist, too, including to black LGBT people, but that goes conspicuously unmentioned. You know this, but you're playing dumb in order to provoke people while trying (and failing) to maintain a degree of plausible deniability. People are calling you racist because they can see through you, you're not fooling anyone. You cite "countless research papers" but you don't actually link a single one or name any of them, it's just a rhetorical device for you to use to justify a baseless argument where you ignore historical context to make blanket statements about an entire group of people. You can say there's countless studies proving the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it, that doesn't make it true, nor would the existence of such studies make their content true simply by virtue of being a study if it didn't actually meet any scientific rigor or stand up to scrutiny of its results or of its methods.

The most generous interpretation of your "debate" style on this forum is that you're a troll who doesn't genuinely believe any of what you say and you're simply trying to get a rise out of people. And that's a sad excuse for the rampant racism and ableism (calling people the R slur, calling people "special needs" as an insult) across your posts. "Ironic" bigotry is still bigotry, it still causes harm, harm which you are indifferent to despite concern trolling about black people "appropriating" LGBT identities. You may not be dressing up in a pointy hood and burning crosses, but you clearly have a lot of contempt for black people to single them out as exceptionally homophobic or exceptionally transphobic when black LGBT people face disproportionately high rates of violence, especially black trans women (which I'm sure you could chime in with "that's black-on-black violence," but you'd be proving my point if you did). If you truly believed black people were exceptionally homophobic, moreso than any other group of people, you'd want to foster solidarity between the two groups to build acceptance and tolerance. You'd be focused on solutions, community outreach, that kind of thing. You're not doing that here. The sole argument you're making is "black people hate the LGBT community (and that's because they're black (and we should hate black people because of that))." There is no interpretation of that where what you're arguing isn't rooted in racism.

If you're a troll, there's no point engaging you. If you believe all this and refuse to listen to anyone who's taking the time to explain any of this, there's also no point in engaging you. I fully realize there's no point in engaging you, that none of what I've typed is going to mean anything to you except maybe to give you a giggle as you plan your sick comeback where you call me an idiot (assuming you are a troll). That's not what I'm doing. I really don't care what your response might be, you've given no indication it would be anything that you haven't already repeatedly said in lieu of substantive dialogue. But I typed this all out for the benefit of onlookers, to point out to them exactly what you're doing if there's anyone here who doesn't see it right away. Assuming anyone has the patience to read all this.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Sep 8, 2022)

Just my two cents:
"marginalized communities" sounds ultra gay.
It shows how sick Western society is: everyone wants to be a victim to get sympathy from Mum (=the government or society at large). In a healthy patriarchal society, nobody wants to be seen as a victim because it is associated with weakness.

Also, women aren´t gay. They are lesbians. "Gay" (=happy) was used for homosexual men because they tend to act more feminine in social interactions. Lesbians tend to act more masculine, so the word "gay" does not apply.


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

leejaclane said:


> If anyone is calling you a racist, it's because you're making a blatantly bad faith argument intended to stir up antiblack racism by falsely implying black people are significantly more homophobic/transphobic than white people, which is categorically untrue and part of an age-old reactionary push to 1) absolve themselves by blaming another marginalized group, and 2) pit different marginalized groups against each other to prevent building solidarity between marginalized communities (communities which incidentally are not mutually exclusive), as well as ignoring the fact that there are just as many LGBT black people as LGBT white people, and LGBT people of color face a significant degree of racism from white people within the LGBT community.
> 
> If you cared to research the history of the flag by, say, doing a single internet search, you'd know that the pride flag with black & brown stripes is specifically intended to draw attention to racism faced by LGBT people of color within the LGBT community and to be more welcoming to LGBT people of color, it's not including people of color who are not LGBT or equating blackness with sexuality/gender. People in this thread have already told you that. The white LGBT community is notoriously racist, too, including to black LGBT people, but that goes conspicuously unmentioned. You know this, but you're playing dumb in order to provoke people while trying (and failing) to maintain a degree of plausible deniability. People are calling you racist because they can see through you, you're not fooling anyone. You cite "countless research papers" but you don't actually link a single one or name any of them, it's just a rhetorical device for you to use to justify a baseless argument where you ignore historical context to make blanket statements about an entire group of people. You can say there's countless studies proving the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it, that doesn't make it true, nor would the existence of such studies make their content true simply by virtue of being a study if it didn't actually meet any scientific rigor or stand up to scrutiny of its results or of its methods.
> 
> ...


Nice wall of text of nothing. Basically you're:

- Insulting me
- Claiming that the black and brown stripes are because LGBT members are racist (wow)
- Insulting me once more
- Claiming "people" are calling me racist when it's just another bootlicker like you

All this for a genuine question I had.

Care to try again? Or are you already busy sucking your own dick?


By the way, your post reeks of someone who has ZERO idea of the LGBT community. But thanks for at least confirming that you're one of those "everyone is racist" people.


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## impeeza (Sep 8, 2022)

City said:


> The first time I saw the "new flag" I didn't get it, and I still don't get it now. African countries have notoriously been very homophobic and transphobic, the same goes for african american communities and the black church.
> 
> To me, it feels like yet another thing that the black community desperately wants to appropiate. Either that or some activists were so desperate to appear woke that they let them in.
> 
> ...


because if you want the other be tolerant WITH YOU, you NEED to be tolerant with EVERYONE else.


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

impeeza said:


> because if you want the other be tolerant WITH YOU, you NEED to be tolerant with EVERYONE else.


I'm not the one famous for being intollerant of the LGBT community.

It's crazy to me that, rather than recognizing the problem and working on it, some people are like "well YOU are racist so it's ok" and try to put extra colors in the LGBT community to remind everyone how racist we all are. Crazy!


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## Daggot (Sep 8, 2022)

City said:


> The first time I saw the "new flag" I didn't get it, and I still don't get it now. African countries have notoriously been very homophobic and transphobic, the same goes for african american communities and the black church.
> 
> To me, it feels like yet another thing that the black community desperately wants to appropiate. Either that or some activists were so desperate to appear woke that they let them in.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is bait lol


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