# CoroCoro Reveals new Gen 6 Pokemon



## Chary (May 12, 2013)

Hold onto your hats, ladies and gents, we've got new Pokemon announcements.
Yesterday, Corocoro released some pictures of Pokemon X & Y's new Pokemon, the boxarts, and the design of the Main Characters.

In this picture, we see some panda thing, a generic bird, and something that looks like a pre-evolution to Mawile.









Next up is the new Mewtwo, and the Official Boxart of the games.





Last, but no least, are the new trainers;




So, there you have it folks, share your opinions in the thread.
Source; Serebii.net


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## Gahars (May 12, 2013)

Meet the new gen, same as the old gen.


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## duffmmann (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Meet the new gen, same as the old gen.


 
except you know: no longer sprite based, built for the 3DS, new features such as some form of character customization, apparently the ability to ride land pokemon like one would a horse. And that's really all we know. The game could be radically different, they could make it so you don't collect 8 gym badges (not saying that's the case). It's just dumb to make such a blanket statement when we don't have all the facts.


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## pokefloote (May 12, 2013)

^


Gahars said:


> Meet the new gen, same as the old gen.


already one great reaction, good job.


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## Gahars (May 12, 2013)

duffmmann said:


> except you know: no longer sprite based, built for the 3DS, new features such as some form of character customization, apparently the ability to ride land pokemon like one would a horse. And thats really all we know. The game could be radically different, they could make it so you don't collect 8 gym badges (not saying thats the case). Its just dumb to make such a blanket statement when we don't have all the facts.


 
...Because I was talking about gameplay mechanics?


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## weavile001 (May 12, 2013)

this was already posted here:
http://gbatemp.net/threads/pokemon-x-and-pokemon-y-discussion-update-thread.340889/page-95
The pokemons looks a bit uninteresting, I hope their Evos are more mighty.


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## Mantis41 (May 12, 2013)

I clicked next picture once too often. 

WAT


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## Chary (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Meet the new gen, same as the old gen.


Thems fightin' words.


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## duffmmann (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> ...Because I was talking about gameplay mechanics?


 
ah, I misunderstood your assertion of the creatures as an assertion on the game itself.

Having said that, I think so far every pokemon that's been revealed look better than what we saw in the 5th gen for the most part, at least we haven't seen any ridiculous coffin or ice cream cone based pokemon.

And I really like the legendaries, especially the bird.


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## Nah3DS (May 12, 2013)

It's me or japanese magazines tend to be a mess?
anyway.... the grass thing looks cool, Ash looks even youger than before, and I'm glad they finally decided to include Doraemon in the National Dex


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## GameWinner (May 12, 2013)

I think they look pretty good. Better than most of Gen 5 that's for sure.


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## DroRox (May 12, 2013)

Totally being a girl in this game... Also, that salamander thing is mine, man, mine.


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## Scott-105 (May 12, 2013)

I like them all. I especially like the panda though. I'm gonna catch one and train it when I get Y.


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## heartgold (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> ...Because I was talking about gameplay mechanics?


Nope, we don't know anything about the gameplay, unless you know something we don't. Except turn based moves.


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## Gahars (May 12, 2013)

heartgold said:


> Nope, we don't know anything about the gameplay, unless you know something we don't. Except turn based moves.


 
...

I think you misread my post.


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## heartgold (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> ...
> 
> I think you misread my post.


I read you and I disagree. What's your term for gameplay mechanics, it may vary from mine.


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## Gahars (May 12, 2013)

heartgold said:


> I read you and I disagree. What's your term for gameplay mechanics, it may vary from mine.


 
I wasn't talking about gameplay mechanics at all, in any way, shape, or form. That is what I was saying.


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## Nebz (May 12, 2013)

Everywhere I turn Gahars finds a way to crack me up on here lol

Now about dem Pogeymanz... I can finally be a person of color!!!!


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## gamefan5 (May 12, 2013)

heartgold said:


> I read you and I disagree. What's your term for gameplay mechanics, it may vary from mine.


It's amazing how you cannot pick on obvious sarcasm such as this. -_-'


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## Youkai (May 12, 2013)

I would have preferred no new Pokemon oO
I still can only remember part of the first 151 ... and I think these were enough ...
some nice ones later on but still they are overdoing it.

with 151 it was awesome hunting for every Pokemon but now it is just plain too much !


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## heartgold (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I wasn't talking about gameplay mechanics at all, in any way, shape, or form. That is what I was saying.


I see. Thanks for clearing up. So, do you wanna expand upon your earlier post. I would like to hear what you actually intended.



gamefan5 said:


> It's amazing how you cannot pick on obvious sarcasm such as this. -_-'


Your post is not needed. No I didn't. Any problems?


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## gamefan5 (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Meet the new gen, same as the old gen.


Yep, pretty much. XD


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## Gahars (May 12, 2013)

heartgold said:


> So, do you wanna expand upon your earlier post. I would like to hear what you actually intended.


 
Not really. It was a small joke about the designs. Not much there to expand upon, really.


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## mrtofu (May 12, 2013)

deleted


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## Lube_Skyballer (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Meet the new gen, same as the old gen.


 

Pokémon hating is getting really old. And mainstream.
I was hating Pokémon before it even got released in the west.

In all seriousness, I'm curious if Gamefreak will be expanding (a little bit) on the existing battle mechanics. Never change a winning formula I know, but still....


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## jomaper (May 12, 2013)

I WANT THAT PANDA
PLS LET ME PICK IT AS A STARTER
IDC IF HE SUCKS
PLS
YOU CAN MOUNT IN YOUR FREAKING POKEMON
YOU CAN BE BLACK
WTF NINTY

Now... what the hell happened to Ash?!


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## IBNobody (May 12, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Not really. It was a small joke about the designs. Not much there to expand upon, really.


 
There's always cannibalism...


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2013)

Pretty uninspired - I see they're _(unsuprisingly)_ continuing with the art style I despise. Out of the shown Pokemons only the deer one appears to be relatively acceptable for me. Sorry lads, Generation 1 Master Race.


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## Mantis41 (May 12, 2013)

WatchGintama said:


> She's awesome.


She comes in 3 different skin tones?


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## mrtofu (May 12, 2013)

deleted


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## Chary (May 12, 2013)

jomaper said:


> Now... what the hell happened to Ash?!


 
Not only is he immortal, but now Ash can age backwards.


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## Black-Ice (May 12, 2013)

Chary said:


> Not only is he immortal, but now Ash can age backwards.


#WhyIDontWatchTheAnime



Foxi4 said:


> Pretty uninspired - I see they're _(unsuprisingly)_ continuing with the art style I despise. Out of the shown Pokemons only the deer one appears to be relatively acceptable for me. Sorry lads, Generation 1 Master Race.


#FairyHorseSwag
#Gen3MasterRace


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## InuYasha (May 12, 2013)

Looks like it has been for a while, more poorly drawn pokemon...


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## Deleted-236924 (May 12, 2013)

Obviously they're different from Gen I or Gen II Pokémon, therefore they're bad.


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## jomaper (May 13, 2013)

WatchGintama said:


> Yes, you can choose skin and hair color in this game.


If the personalized option is only skin and hair color I'll be seriously dissapointed...



Chary said:


> Not only is he immortal, but now Ash can age backwards.


I bet they have an Ash army full of clones. The original Ash died in the mewtwo movie. In the original movie he died when Mew and Mewtwo beam'd his ass but they couldn't show that so they made it look like he got saved by the power of love.
IT'S ALL LIES.
ASH DIED THAT DAY.
MEWTWO CLONED HIM


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## DroRox (May 13, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> She comes in 3 different skin tones?


Oh god, her blondeness was seriously the only thing I didn't like... And I can make her a brunette!  This game makes me so happy I can't even...


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## Hells Malice (May 13, 2013)

The bottom one looks a little derpy, but I actually like the other 3.

I'd use the bird.

Surprising honestly, but I guess it's about time they did something right.


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## Chary (May 13, 2013)

Why is no-one noticing the trainers riding the Pokemon? What IS that? It shows the female trainer riding that grass goat Pokemon. It also looks like Pokemon following you, ala Heartgold/Soulsilver is returning.


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## The Real Jdbye (May 13, 2013)

These look better than I expected. I like them all except the bird, though the Mawile pre-evolution (which is most likely what it is, especially since the ears are long and black and all) looks rather meh.



weavile001 said:


> this was already posted here:
> http://gbatemp.net/threads/pokemon-x-and-pokemon-y-discussion-update-thread.340889/page-95
> The pokemons looks a bit uninteresting, I hope their Evos are more mighty.


It's impossible to keep track of that topic though. I wouldn't have seen this unless it was posted in its own topic 



jomaper said:


> I WANT THAT PANDA
> PLS LET ME PICK IT AS A STARTER
> IDC IF HE SUCKS
> PLS
> ...


It's not black at all. The Skin tones are more like sickness white, normal and suntan. It's a bit silly actually. No one is that white, why didn't they just make it normal, suntan and brown instead :S



Chary said:


> Why is no-one noticing the trainers riding the Pokemon? What IS that? It shows the female trainer riding that grass goat Pokemon. It also looks like Pokemon following you, ala Heartgold/Soulsilver is returning.


Everyone noticed it. Some people even commented on it.


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## smile72 (May 13, 2013)

Oh...I like the Panda pokemon!!!! *hug*


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## Andim (May 13, 2013)

duffmmann said:


> Having said that, I think so far every pokemon that's been revealed look better than what we saw in the 5th gen for the most part, at least we haven't seen any ridiculous coffin or ice cream cone based pokemon.


I agree. Pokemon designs have really gone to shit. I wouldn't be surprised if the new gen's designs included landmines, household magnets, eggs with faces on them, bombs, piles of shit, karate masters, transsexual midgets in blackface, or even evolutions that just stick 2-3 of the original Pokemon together. It's really gotten bad I tell you, I wish we could go back to the glory days of gen 1 where we didn't have things like that.


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## Kouen Hasuki (May 13, 2013)

I'm still waiting for MissingNo. to be an official Pokemon


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## Bladexdsl (May 13, 2013)

I can see the pokenoobs queuing up the forums already


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## Pong20302000 (May 13, 2013)

The New Form of Mewtwo has been given the name

Mewtwo X

some new info too


Fairy will be a new type. It is weak to Poison and Steel, immune to Dragon, super effective against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, and Fire and Psychic-type Pokemon take half damage from it.
Sylveon is Fairy-type. Some older Pokemon will be reclassified to Fairy, such as Mawile (Steel/Fairy).
Mewtwo has two new formes, not just one. Both are activated via items.
The professor's English name is Patrice.
The Starter final evolutions are Fire/Psychic, Grass/Fighting, and Water/Dark.
The first Gym is Bug, the second is Fairy, and the fourth is Fighting.
A few attacks will be dual-typed.
There will be a new type of battling style that Flying-type Pokemon and Pokemon with Levitate can participate in.
You will be able to see a Pokemon's EVs at a certain in-game facility. You will be able to boost the EVs through mini-games. It will take about two hours to get one stat to max EVs.


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## mrtofu (May 13, 2013)

deleted


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## lolzed (May 13, 2013)

That is some interesting info if true, big changes...


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## Pong20302000 (May 13, 2013)

WatchGintama said:


> @Pong20302000:
> Hmmm... Source please?


as always its got to be


Spoiler


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## MelodieOctavia (May 13, 2013)

Andim said:


> I agree. Pokemon designs have really gone to shit. I wouldn't be surprised if the new gen's designs included landmines, household magnets, eggs with faces on them, bombs, piles of shit, karate masters, transsexual midgets in blackface, or even evolutions that just stick 2-3 of the original Pokemon together. It's really gotten bad I tell you, I wish we could go back to the glory days of gen 1 where we didn't have things like that.


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> The New Form of Mewtwo has been given the name
> 
> Mewtwo X
> 
> ...


Helpful Pong is Helpful.

Glad we dont have another boring Fire/Fighting

But this does mean Fennekin can own any other fire type starter in the series. 
Fire/Phychic > Fire/Fighting


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## heartgold (May 13, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> The New Form of Mewtwo has been given the name
> 
> Mewtwo X
> 
> ...


Funny enough Pokemon Smash says otherwise.

I don't doubt there will be a new type, but so far we know it's supper effective against ice, weak to poison. That Pokebeach rumour didn't pick up ice. Also it was tested against fighting and it couldn't fight back, so not supper effective against fighting either.


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## KingAsix (May 13, 2013)

I'm actually really excited about this game. I'm liking all the Pokemon that have been shown but come on...for true fans...even if we dont like'em we will warm up to them. We've done it since Gen 4/5.


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

JinTrigger said:


> I'm actually really excited about this game. I'm liking all the Pokemon that have been shown but come on...for true fans...even if we dont like'em we will warm up to them. We've done it since Gen 4/5.


I've never warmed up to ice cream.


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## Pong20302000 (May 13, 2013)

WatchGintama said:


> @Pong20302000:
> Hmmm... Source please?


 
where else do you find sauce

THE BEACH

http://pokebeach.com/#supposed-pokemon-x-and-y-insider-information


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## Maplemage (May 13, 2013)

Scott-105 said:


> I like them all. I especially like the panda though. I'm gonna catch one and train it when I get Y.


inb4 it's the rattata of gen 6.


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## BORTZ (May 13, 2013)

Eh they look bland and uninspired, like gen 4... But no one plays pokemon for the pokemon anymore.


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> Eh they look bland and uninspired, like gen 4... But no one plays pokemon for the pokemon anymore.


I'll just transfer my supreme gen 3 pokemon and dragonite over when I complete the story so it's ok.


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## BORTZ (May 13, 2013)

where do you get a Dratini in gen 3? Pure curiosity.


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## Arras (May 13, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> where do you get a Dratini in gen 3? Pure curiosity.


Fish in the safari zone in FireRed and LeafGreen.


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> where do you get a Dratini in gen 3? Pure curiosity.





Arras said:


> Fish in the safari zone in FireRed and LeafGreen.


I traded it to my emerald, which I took on holiday to create my ultimate level 100 team. Unbeaten on gbatemp ;o


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## BORTZ (May 13, 2013)

Oh oh I forgot that FireRed and LeafGreen counted as Gen 3.


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## jomaper (May 13, 2013)

Pong20302000 said:


> The New Form of Mewtwo has been given the name
> 
> Mewtwo X
> 
> ...


 
Cheesus Christ the grass starter will get his ass kicked by that bird... And I'll guess Mewtwo's second form looks like a snake or rayquaza-ish



Chary said:


> Why is no-one noticing the trainers riding the Pokemon? What IS that? It shows the female trainer riding that grass goat Pokemon. It also looks like Pokemon following you, ala Heartgold/Soulsilver is returning.


I don't want to get too excited about the riding thing... Knowing how Nintendo turns a great idea to something that kinda sucks I wouldn't be surprised if you could only ride that goat (goat only available in Japan for the first year via a special event ONLY FOR JAPAN ONLY).


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## Eerpow (May 13, 2013)

The lizard thing looks cool as hell and the panda is just fine, but the other two are booring imo. Another uninteresting bird? And another creature that doesn't look like a pokémon... Well, we get bad pokés every gen so I'm not complaining.


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> The lizard thing looks cool as hell and the panda is just fine, but the other two are booring imo. Another uninteresting bird? And another creature that doesn't look like a pokémon... Well, we get bad pokés every gen so I'm not complaining.


The grass ram/sheep looks the most promising from all of the imo.
I'm waiting for this gen's 3 stage dragon.
Dragonite, Salamance, Garchomp and Hydreigon have been epic. Hopefully they dont kill the trend


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## weavile001 (May 13, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> The lizard thing looks cool as hell


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## jomaper (May 13, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> The lizard thing looks cool as hell and the panda is just fine, but the other two are booring imo. Another uninteresting bird? And another creature that doesn't look like a pokémon... Well, we get bad pokés every gen so I'm not complaining.


 

Yes, yes you are complaining. But being objective and making a critic is good, for being a fanboy is just dumb.

Fanboys will never agree that some pokemons since the very beginning are just stupid. But, hey, I love those dumb designs!

Btw: That -superuberswaggyrad- lizard looks electric (look at the picture, he's using some electric attack to that horribird) and, well... he's yellow. Maybe I can dream?


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

Am I the only one who thinks the lizard looks ugly?

Well screw you all


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## Eerpow (May 13, 2013)

Black-Ice said:


> The grass ram/sheep looks the most promising from all of the imo.
> I'm waiting for this gen's 3 stage dragon.
> Dragonite, Salamance, Garchomp and Hydreigon have been epic. Hopefully they dont kill the trend


It's nice and all but I don't see it as a pokémon for some reason, it looks a little out of place much like both the BW legendaries and XY ones. Maybe it has to do with using too many colors and too many design features/details.


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## Rizsparky (May 13, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> The lizard thing looks cool as hell and the panda is just fine, but the other two are booring imo. *Another uninteresting bird?* And another creature that doesn't look like a pokémon... Well, we get bad pokés every gen so I'm not complaining.


I'm looking forward to the evolved form of the robin. Pidgy looked crap but Pidgeot...


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## Black-Ice (May 13, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> It's nice and all but I don't see it as a pokémon for some reason, it looks a little out of place much like both the BW legendaries and XY ones. Maybe it has to do with using too many colors and too many design features/details.


You don't like Fairy Horse Swag Xerneas? 
gtfo eerpow


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## Lanlan (May 13, 2013)

Black-Ice said:


> The grass ram/sheep looks the most promising from all of the imo.
> I'm waiting for this gen's 3 stage dragon.
> Dragonite, Salamance, Garchomp and Hydreigon have been epic. Hopefully they dont kill the trend


Those are Psuedo-Legendaries. Along with Metagross and Tyranitar. No way they won't have one. Or two.


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## Eerpow (May 13, 2013)

I like it waaay more than Yveltal, but the swag level is just too damn high. The swords for legs, x as eyes, multiple colors etc. Just too many small details, they should tone it down a bit, keeping the designs clean and simple. It's almost as if it fits better in a franchise like Digimon where the designs can be all over the place without looking, out of place.


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## jomaper (May 13, 2013)

Rizsparky said:


> I'm looking forward to the evolved form of the robin. Pidgy looked crap but Pidgeot...


Dis be my face when I first saw Pidgeot...

and every other time I see it.


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## weavile001 (May 13, 2013)

jomaper said:


> Yes, yes you are complaining. But being objective and making a critic is good, for being a fanboy is just dumb.
> 
> Fanboys will never agree that some pokemons since the very beginning are just stupid. But, hey, I love those dumb designs!
> 
> Btw: That -superuberswaggyrad- lizard looks electric (look at the picture, he's using some electric attack to that horribird) and, well... he's yellow. Maybe I can dream?


wasn´t it confirmed to be Normal/Electric?


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## Foxi4 (May 13, 2013)

Black-Ice said:


> Am I the only one who thinks the lizard looks ugly?
> 
> Well screw you all


It's fugly* - it looks mentally challenged, mostly because of its eyes.



*fu*king ugly


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## Scott-105 (May 13, 2013)

Maplemage said:


> inb4 it's the rattata of gen 6.


I'd cry


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## Shadowlurker (May 13, 2013)

The thing is about the Robin is that because it knows Flame Charge it could possibly evolve into a Fire/Flying.. Even if it doesn't it'll probably be in my team for the good early portion of the game..


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## duffmmann (May 13, 2013)

Andim said:


> I agree. Pokemon designs have really gone to shit. I wouldn't be surprised if the new gen's designs included landmines, household magnets, eggs with faces on them, bombs, piles of shit, karate masters, transsexual midgets in blackface, or even evolutions that just stick 2-3 of the original Pokemon together. It's really gotten bad I tell you, I wish we could go back to the glory days of gen 1 where we didn't have things like that.


 
Hey I agree with you man, I never once said that gen 1 was brilliant through and through, I always point to voltorb and electrode when I think of terrible pokemon.  But I was merely replying to the quote that this generation is the "same as the last" (gen 5) in terms of the pokemon.  When in fact I think that's bullcrap, because so far we've seen no shitty designs based on inanimate objects.


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## Deleted-236924 (May 14, 2013)

duffmmann said:


> Hey I agree with you man, I never once said that gen 1 was brilliant through and through, I always point to voltorb and electrode when I think of terrible pokemon. But I was merely replying to the quote that this generation is the "same as the last" (gen 5) in terms of the pokemon. *When in fact I think that's bullcrap, because so far we've seen no shitty designs based on inanimate objects.*


 
Emphasis mine.


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## heartgold (May 14, 2013)

jomaper said:


> I don't want to get too excited about the riding thing... Knowing how Nintendo turns a great idea to something that kinda sucks I wouldn't be surprised if you could only ride that goat (goat only available in Japan for the first year via a special event ONLY FOR JAPAN ONLY).


It's errr GameFreak, if it was Nintendo internal you would have freaking Miyamoto guarding it with his life.


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## duffmmann (May 14, 2013)

heartgold said:


> It's errr GameFreak, if it was Nintendo internal you would have freaking Miyamoto guarding it with his life.


 
I was thinking the same thing. 

Plus if it was Nintendo, there wouldn't be nearly the depth that there is to this RPG series.


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## jomaper (May 14, 2013)

heartgold said:


> It's errr GameFreak, if it was Nintendo internal you would have freaking Miyamoto guarding it with his life.


It's a joke, you know? 
I don't care about Nintendo, I'm a Sega Saturn MasterRace fanboy


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## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

heartgold said:


> I see. Thanks for clearing up. So, do you wanna expand upon your earlier post. I would like to hear what you actually intended.


 
I find that guy is perpetually stuck on puns and sarcasm, the only time he gets serious is when he's being contrary. It seems almost terminal. Anyway, clearly pokemon games aren't his forté or interest, he doesn't "get" these games the way you or I would.


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## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> I find that guy is perpetually stuck on puns and sarcasm, the only time he gets serious is when he's being contrary. It seems almost terminal.


 
Shh, no tears, only dreams, etc. etc.



DiabloStorm said:


> Anyway, clearly pokemon games aren't his forte or interest, he doesn't "get" these games the way you or I would.


 
Ah, because there's just _so_ much to get about Pokemon. Gotcha. 



Spoiler: Literally everything there is to Pokemon


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## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Shh, no tears, only dreams, etc. etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for proving my point when you clearly haven't played the games enough to understand the complexity of the game mechanics these games can provide. Nice try though.


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## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Thanks for proving my point when you clearly haven't played the games enough to understand the complexity of the game mechanics these games can provide. Nice try though.


 
Thisiswhatpokemonfansactuallybelieve.jpg

I guess it's official. Pokemon is 2deep4me.


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## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Thisiswhatpokemonfansactuallybelieve.jpg
> 
> I guess it's official. Pokemon is 2deep4me.


Depends on the demographic you're referring to, but your perception and understanding of the games doesn't seem to span much further than the demographic that was aimed at children. Go to any site (not that you would) that actually talks detail on the mechanics of breeding/stats/IVs/EVs etc., RNG abuse, battling mechanics or just breakdowns of each individual pokemon and their limitations in battle scenarios and then yeah, I guess it is 2deep4u, but mostly because you've decided to be closed-minded.


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## Foxi4 (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Thanks for proving my point when you clearly haven't played the games enough to understand the complexity of the game mechanics these games can provide. Nice try though.


...about as complex as the average Korean MMO - find a Pokemon with the best base stats or breed one _(walking back and forth grass patches or making Pokemon you found on grass patches mate in a PokeBrothel)_ and grind to level 100 by _(walking back and forth grass on patches)_, rinse and repeat. By the way, _"complexity"_ is not a measure of a good RPG system - an RPG system is supposed to be see-through first and foremost and with hidden values like in Pokemon it's anything _but_ see-through.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

Hey guys this Pokemon game will be TOTALLY DIFFERENT because over a decade of history has definitely shown that right?

Like seriously how can you type when your fingers are too busy stuck in your ears. Do you just smash the keyboard with your face?

Also Gahars makes one minor statement and everyone fucking jumps on him like it's fucking personal. Grow some fucking testes gents.


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## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...about as complex as the average Korean MMO - find a Pokemon with the best base stats or breed one _(walking back and forth grass patches or making Pokemon you found on grass patches mate in a PokeBrothel)_ and grind to level 100 by _(walking back and forth grass on patches)_, rinse and repeat. By the way, _"complexity"_ is not a measure of a good RPG system - an RPG system is supposed to be see-through first and foremost and with hidden values like in Pokemon it's anything _but_ see-through.


That's one aspect of the complexity, sure (to some small skewed degree?) Go to smogon or something if you want to see battle complexity.


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## Foxi4 (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> That's one aspect of the complexity, sure (to some small skewed degree?) Go to smogon or something if you want to see battle complexity.


Oh c'mon, Pokemon University? Really?


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## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh c'mon, Pokemon University? Really?


Clearly it's there? They mathematically analyze pokemon limitations, it's like an e-sport, really.

Oh also, they aren't the only ones, I just tend to look there sometimes.


----------



## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Depends on the demographic you're referring to, but your perception and understanding of the games doesn't seem to span much further than the demographic that was aimed at children. Go to any site (not that you would) that actually talks detail on the mechanics of breeding/stats/IVs/EVs etc., RNG abuse, battling mechanics or just breakdowns of each individual pokemon and their limitations in battle scenarios and then yeah, I guess it is 2deep4u, but mostly because you've decided to be closed-minded.


 
I'm sorry I don't go digging for imagined complexity. But hey, if you need to justify your interest in the game that badly, be my guest.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Clearly it's there? They mathematically analyze pokemon limitations, it's like an e-sport, really.


I'm not going to argue whether they do or don't, I will underline that the same things are done for most systems, such as S.P.E.C.I.A.L, G.U.R.P.S, various flavours of D&D and so on - the fact that someone analyzes it doesn't make it universally good.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I'm sorry I don't go digging for imagined complexity. But hey, if you need to justify your interest in the game that badly, be my guest.


Oh okay, well, even though you're mistaken, apology accepted.  Why would I need to justify my interests? lol You're clearly too elitist for pokemon or something, I just don't get why you'd involve yourself if you didn't have interest to begin with. _that's kind of the point of these threads, sorry you missed the memo._



Foxi4 said:


> I'm not going to argue whether they do or don't, I will underline that the same things are done for most systems, such as S.P.E.C.I.A.L, G.U.R.P.S, various flavours of D&D and so on - the fact that someone analyzes it doesn't make it universally good.


"Good" is subjective, so, like I was saying before, either you get it or you don't, you like it or you don't. *shrug*


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Oh okay, well, even though you're mistaken, apology accepted.  Why would I need to justify my interests? lol You're clearly too elitist for pokemon or something, I just don't get why you'd involve yourself if you didn't have interest to begin with. _that's kind of the point of these threads, sorry you missed the memo._


 
Not liking something = too elitist now? 

Also the whole argument of "If you don't like it then don't talk!" is like the most blatant thing of ignorance I hear daily. "We can't have dissenting views! This is OUR thread because we put our flag here!"

Like you can respectfully disagree but don't call him an "elitist" or saying he "shouldn't involve himself". It's an internet video game forum, people get bored and like to comment on anything. You have to learn to deal with it.


----------



## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Oh okay, well, even though you're mistaken, apology accepted.  Why would I need to justify my interests? lol You're clearly too elitist for pokemon or something, I just don't get why you'd involve yourself if you didn't have interest to begin with. _that's kind of the point of these threads, sorry you missed the memo._


 
Saying Pokemon isn't complex makes me an elitist now?

Good heavens, what if I said it was bad? That'd be tantamount to sacrilege!


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Not liking something = too elitist now?


It's pretty clear that he has no interest in the games, and what little he knows about it is enough for him to not want to play it because apparently it's childish for him (based off of his replies) but welcome to the discussion...

Apparently people can say whatever, but so can I, which is why I _merely asked_ what the point of involving yourself (Gahars) in a subject that is of no interest to them to begin with. I don't lose anything by him being here lol It just seems like he's trolling (probably)

But anyway, have fun reading far too into things...


----------



## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> It's pretty clear that he has no interest in the games, and what little he knows about it is enough for him to not want to play it because apparently it's childish for him (based off of his replies) but welcome to the discussion...


 


DiabloStorm said:


> But anyway, have fun reading far too into things...


 
Irony, thy name is DiabloStorm.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> It's pretty clear that he has no interest in the games, and what little he knows about it is enough for him to not want to play it because apparently it's childish for him (based off of his replies) but welcome to the discussion...
> 
> Apparently people can say whatever, but so can I, which is why I _merely asked_ what the point of involving yourself (Gahars) in a subject that is of no interest to them to begin with. I don't lose anything by him being here lol It just seems like he's trolling (probably)
> 
> But anyway, have fun reading far too into things...


 
To be fair I'm sure we've all played Pokemon here. I've played like almost every release through and through (except Black/White 2, I got a little more than halfway there but never finished it) and people _still_ try to tell me I don't "understand" when I criticize Pokemon for valid reasons.


----------



## Comforter (May 14, 2013)

It also depends on the environment where one is raised. I remember when I was a kid all the way back when, Pokemon Red and blue were seriously the greatest thing. EVERYONE had one where I lived, and it was really easy to just slip in and join the fun. As it's stuck with me since the original series, it just kinda grows on you to the point where it was kind of hard to shrug off. Even in college, I know a ton of social people who still play this game for fun and competitively. And geez, the competitive networks are insane, they have strategies that are so crazy it's almost unbelievable. It's like who has the time to think of these things LOL!

I actually feel like this game is going to be fantastic. I was personally disappointed by Gen IV and V, don't get me wrong they stand as good games, but it just doesn't have that wonder that the first three generations had. I saw the initial trailers and all that, and it just was clear that this seemed to be promising!

EDIT: @Guild: lol, yeah your criticisms are more than valid, to say the least. I think that everyone just sees you as this incredibly standoffish guy that's kinda hard to approach.  Which is kind of a shame, because lately it feels like many tempers have their heads shoved so far up their asses it's become a warzone over the littlest things.


----------



## duffmmann (May 14, 2013)

Wow both sides sound pathetic.  I just like the series that's all I know. And its certainly not without its issues either.


----------



## Chary (May 14, 2013)

Don't mess with the Pokemon fanbase. These are people who will flip their shiz if you say one wrong word about the franchise.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

Comforter said:


> It also depends on the environment where one is raised. I remember when I was a kid all the way back when, Pokemon Red and blue were seriously the greatest thing. EVERYONE had one where I lived, and it was really easy to just slip in and join the fun. As it's stuck with me since the original series, it just kinda grows on you to the point where it was kind of hard to shrug off. Even in college, I know a ton of social people who still play this game for fun and competitively. And geez, the competitive networks are insane, they have strategies that are so crazy it's almost unbelievable. It's like who has the time to think of these things LOL!
> 
> I actually feel like this game is going to be fantastic. I was personally disappointed by Gen IV and V, don't get me wrong they stand as good games, but it just doesn't have that wonder that the first three generations had. I saw the initial trailers and all that, and it just was clear that this seemed to be promising!


 
Gahars and I both grew up in the Pokemania craze (I being born in 1993, him being 1994) and I was fucking obsessed, but I'm a levelheaded individual and see the games for what they are.

If your argument is "Well it's nostalgia that makes Pokemon good" then your argument is REALLY flimsy. Like nostalgia is just yourself inflating bad things so they seem good because you're afraid it'll hit you straight in the childhood if you don't.


----------



## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> (I being born in 1993, him being 1994)


 
1993, dude, damnt! What do you take me for, some sort of driving toddler?

Otherwise, word.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> To be fair I'm sure we've all played Pokemon here. I've played like almost every release through and through (except Black/White 2, I got a little more than halfway there but never finished it) and people _still_ try to tell me I don't "understand" when I criticize Pokemon for valid reasons.


Okay? Well I don't know what your reasons are, this wasn't about you anyway. But, if you want to talk about it we can LOL. Gahars decided to remark sarcastically at the game's depth (or lack of depth according to him?) so I provided my reasoning behind why I felt he was just being closed minded and biased. That's pretty much it.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Okay? Well I don't know what your reasons are, this wasn't about you anyway. But, if you want to talk about it we can LOL. Gahars decided to remark sarcastically at the game's depth (or lack of depth according to him?) so I provided my reasoning behind why I felt he was just being closed minded and biased. That's pretty much it.


 
He's neither of those things but okay man if that makes you feel better.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> He's neither of those things but okay man if that makes you feel better.


You're entitled to your opinion.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (May 14, 2013)

Why do people keep labeling bad concepts or ideas as "complex"? The inclusion of EV/IVs, RNG, etc. have only detracted Pokemon from what I've seen. It's only lead to increased cheating and bickering among Pokemon fans.


----------



## duffmmann (May 14, 2013)

Chary said:


> Don't mess with the Pokemon fanbase. These are people who will flip their shiz if you say one wrong word about the franchise.


 
Its a fantastic series, but its not perfect.  No series is, and no series ever will be.  It can always be better.  And fans will always be somewhat disappointed that what they want hasn't been implemented yet, but slowly with each generation some of the fan wants will be addressed and added, unfortunately all the time between generations, only generates more wants than will be implemented in the next generation.  And thus you can see how its a self sustaining model of a video game series.  Its no wonder the series is so popular still well over 15 years since first being released.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> You're entitled to your opinion.


 
Pretty sure I'm entitled to knowing him rather well as opposed to expanding an obviously joking comment into an entire personal branding.

Like I'm gonna say pretty flat out I know him more than you and I do find it rather shitty that you'd say he's "close minded" because of Pokemon.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Why do people keep labeling bad concepts or ideas as "complex"? The inclusion of EV/IVs, RNG, etc. have only detracted Pokemon from what I've seen. It's only lead to increased cheating and bickering among Pokemon fans.


Well, again, good/bad is subjective, either way it is complex, and I agree it probably does encourage cheating, I'm really curious about the new title coming out in Oct though, if no cheats exist then you have more reason to rely on friends instead of cheats which is probably what Gamefreak intended to begin with TBH...


----------



## Comforter (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Gahars and I both grew up in the Pokemania craze (I being born in 1993, him being 1994) and I was fucking obsessed, but I'm a levelheaded individual and see the games for what they are.
> 
> If your argument is "Well it's nostalgia that makes Pokemon good" then your argument is REALLY flimsy. Like nostalgia is just yourself inflating bad things so they seem good because you're afraid it'll hit you straight in the childhood if you don't.


 
Likewise good sir. And haha, nostalgia goggling is actually not my argumentative basis, believe it or not. It's (the Pokemon franchise) a very strange conversation opener too. I know, I have some very odd friends at that, but that's my own business right there. I can rail and mock aspects about it for hours, I'm a pretty big nut about it, but I don't try to reveal too much of that in public.  I personally want to get away from the home environment, due to some rather tense conflict, and playing these games was oddly like my way of reconciling a bit. Kinda hard to explain, hope I don't sound like some goofball. 



Hyro-Sama said:


> Why do people keep labeling bad concepts or ideas as "complex"? The inclusion of EV/IVs, RNG, etc. have only detracted Pokemon from what I've seen. It's only lead to increased cheating and bickering among Pokemon fans.


 
The only problem I have with that is the absolutely dull and repetitive nature of legitimately raising a team. It took me some 200 hours of mindless zubat razing and whatnot to get a decent fucking team. And by decent, I mean competitively legal. I think on the Gen V games, I've clocked some 652 hours into it, because the reward for me pays off. O_O


----------



## Gahars (May 14, 2013)

Comforter said:


> I personally want to get away from the home environment, due to some rather tense conflict, and playing these games was oddly like my way of reconciling a bit. Kinda hard to explain, hope I don't sound like some goofball.


 
No, of course not. Despite what some seem to believe, I have nothing against the Pokemon games. They can definitely be fun, and they're a great way to kill time. As far as easy to play handheld RPGs go, the series is tough to beat.

Just because I've enjoyed the time with the series, though, doesn't mean I'll overlook its faults or pretend it's something it isn't. That's all it comes down to, really.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Pretty sure I'm entitled to knowing him rather well as opposed to expanding an obviously joking comment into an entire personal branding.
> 
> Like I'm gonna say pretty flat out I know him more than you and I do find it rather shitty that you'd say he's "close minded" because of Pokemon.


Well I say that because it seems as if you're acting like what I'm saying is a sweeping generalization. We're talking about pokemon here, a subject I don't really feel he knows enough about to judge accordingly, no need to get butthurt turning a molehill into a mountain, again I think you're reading too far into what I'm saying, because you're right, I don't know him, so I'm going by what he's said so far on the subject. Jeez.


----------



## Comforter (May 14, 2013)

Absolutely man, I totally see where you're coming from. I'm only a few years older than ya, but from my area, oh geez, people will freaking FIGHT about this franchise, it's absolutely ridiculous! As far as time killers, it's absolutely fun. I don't have a TV where I'm situated at, and my dinner location is absolutely horrendous as my caretaker watches his own strange stuff, so it's basically me in the dining room, playing the games from scratch to kill time.  Don't even get me started on road trips. All I will say is that I have fun ways to make a Pokemon journey intense.  Me and my brother do some truly mystifying things LOL.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Well I say that because it seems as if you're acting like what I'm saying is a sweeping generalization. We're talking about pokemon here, a subject I don't really feel he knows enough about to judge accordingly, no need to get butthurt turning a molehill into a mountain, again I think you're reading too far into what I'm saying, because you're right, I don't know him, so I'm going by what he's said so far on the subject. Jeez.


 
I'm getting annoyed because you're calling someone "close minded" with your justification being a video game. Also in general I see the "oh you don't just _know_ Pokemon like I do!" argument far too often and it's bullshit.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm getting annoyed because you're calling someone "close minded" with your justification being a video game. Also in general I see the "oh you don't just _know_ Pokemon like I do!" argument far too often and it's bullshit.


Okay, well, be annoyed, I honestly don't care.  I already explained my side and you're turning us both into broken records now. From what he let on he didn't seem to know how the game has changed over time. The old adage "don't knock it till you try it" applies here and I don't think it's "bullshit" but again, that's just your opinion, man.


----------



## Comforter (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Well I say that because it seems as if you're acting like what I'm saying is a sweeping generalization. *We're talking about pokemon here, a subject I don't really feel he knows enough about to judge accordingly*, no need to get butthurt turning a molehill into a mountain, again I think you're reading too far into what I'm saying, because you're right, I don't know him, so I'm going by what he's said so far on the subject. Jeez.


 
Hmm. I don't want to rain on your parade, nor look like I'm smashing your toes. 

No offense, man, but that argument is pretty invalid. I will promise you right now that any argument where you "feel" something will not be valid in any case. Arguments on intuition hold up rather poorly, and I would know because 1) I've been there myself and 2) I'm in a class about these kinds of things right now, fascinating shit by the way.  

The way that argument was presented lost you a lot of credibility points.  Unless you've got proof that Guild's said something completely and blatantly stupid and wrong regarding the issue, his argument will actually stand over yours, whether you like it or not. :/ 

Again, I have nothing against you! But for what it's worth... I've always wanted to be able to do something like that and use my class stuff to debunk an argument. :3


----------



## chrisluna413 (May 14, 2013)

Whatever. This was already posted, there's no need for crying.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Comforter said:


> Hmm. I don't want to rain on your parade, nor look like I'm smashing your toes.
> 
> No offense, man, but that argument is pretty invalid. I will promise you right now that any argument where you "feel" something will not be valid in any case. Arguments on intuition hold up rather poorly, and I would know because 1) I've been there myself and 2) I'm in a class about these kinds of things right now, fascinating shit by the way.
> 
> ...


Geez, this is turning into another semantics argument (where's Rydian?) There was nothing intuitive about it, my responses were based off of exactly what he said at the time.


----------



## Comforter (May 14, 2013)

Yeah, and like I said I'm completely over it.  We all have opinions, but I kinda wanted to put those analytical skills to use for a second time in a real life argument, lol. Sorry if I turned this upside down on you. ;P Gimme a break, when all you see are crazy quantitative chemistry formulas and organic chemistry structures, you gotta give a guy a break!


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

Indeed, well, that certainly killed some time. Any poketards left or just me?


----------



## ggyo (May 14, 2013)

Gamefreak poorly implementing heredity and environmental growth of nature/nurture into Pokemon doesn't make it complex. They added simple math to Pokemon (EV/counting, IV/matrices, RNG/ratios). That's definitely a cheap cop-out for making a game "complex".

So if Activision arbitrarily started putting Algebra equations into COD, would people stop dismissing it as a "dudebro" stupid shooter? You could argue that Pacman is math-intensive. Is Pacman complex?


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Gamefreak poorly implementing heredity and environmental growth of nature/nurture into Pokemon doesn't make it complex. They added simple math to Pokemon (EV/counting, IV/matrices, RNG/ratios). That's definitely a cheap cop-out for making a game "complex".
> 
> So if Activision arbitrarily started putting Algebra equations into COD, would people stop dismissing it as a "dudebro" stupid shooter? You could argue that Pacman is math-intensive. Is Pacman complex?


...But it is complex, or inconvenient, whichever way you want to look at it which is why people resort to simplifying things by using pokegen. Foxi4 attributed it's complexity to Korean MMOs (repetition I suppose) but still, that's not the extent of the game, you're overlooking the battle system like I mentioned before as well...


----------



## heartgold (May 14, 2013)

The EV system is great, along with natures and abilities. You can set your pokemon what role to take on, when making a competitive team. That's my favourite part of Pokemon, team building. If you have no interest in competitive battling then you would overlook this, this is just for the people who want perfection from their Pokemon. For example you have a physical Pokemon, you want it to reach it max stat for more damage, also you can tweak with with EV's to take hits against certain common threats, for mix attackers spilt the EV's down to however you want, sweepers want max speed so they can attack first before other sweepers. So much you can do with EV's for each Pokemon.

IMO Pokemon can be played competitive, there's millions out there who do. If You don't agree then that's your opinion. I'm not going to dismiss yours, it's not for everyone.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Okay, well, be annoyed, I honestly don't care.  I already explained my side and you're turning us both into broken records now. From what he let on he didn't seem to know how the game has changed over time. The old adage "don't knock it till you try it" applies here and I don't think it's "bullshit" but again, that's just your opinion, man.


 
Yeah but your side is absolute shit.


----------



## BORTZ (May 14, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Shh, no tears, only dreams, etc. etc.


Oh man, my mom HATES when she's trying to talk to me about something important like school loans or me getting a job and I get up and be all personal and whisper to her, "no tears just dreams"



DiabloStorm said:


> The old adage "don't knock it till you try it" applies here.


Oh come in there are I clearly don't need to try to know they are bad. That argument doesn't hold up logically. I don't have to murder someone to know it's bad.


----------



## Chary (May 14, 2013)

Hey! HEY! New video, people.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 14, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> Oh come in there are I clearly don't need to try to know they are bad. That argument doesn't hold up logically. I don't have to murder someone to know it's bad.


 
I'll say I have played and beaten every Pokemon game from Red and Blue to Black and White and got halfway through Black and White 2 and I agree with the sentiments expressed by Gahars and co.


----------



## chrisrlink (May 14, 2013)

the male trainer looks like the same design as hilbert. Excellent, I'll use this to my advantage in my X/Y fanfic

so I guess no more riding bikes.....you ride your pokemon, nice!


----------



## BORTZ (May 14, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'll say I have played and beaten every Pokemon game from Red and Blue to Black and White and got halfway through Black and White 2 and I agree with the sentiments expressed by Gahars and co.


Am I part of Gahars and co? Because I'm fine with that.

I mean I've played a fair share of pokemon. yellow, silver, sapphire, emerald, heart gold... it's the same thing.


----------



## ggyo (May 14, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> ...But it is complex, or inconvenient, whichever way you want to look at it which is why people resort to simplifying things by using pokegen. Foxi4 attributed it's complexity to Korean MMOs (repetition I suppose) but still, that's not the extent of the game, you're overlooking the battle system like I mentioned before as well...


No, the actual mathematics performed is simple. If you lose track of the EVs counted, calculating them is a little complex. But that's not a core part of the game that everybody uses.

The stories are simple. Exploration is simple. Battling is simple and has little depth, which is why intricate strategies are few and far between. And that's really all there is to any RPG. The story, the world, and the battles.

Pokemon is purposely incomplex so that they it's accessible by its target demographic; children. You can pick at the ambiguity of anything for children, and make it seem that much more contrived.

Is SpongeBob a satire on the struggles of mental capacitation, its loneliness and dependency on parental figures, and marketed to euphemise its perception and increase awareness/acceptance in future generations, or is it just a stupid show?


----------



## porkiewpyne (May 14, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Is SpongeBob a satire on the struggles of mental capacitation, its loneliness and dependency on parental figures, and marketed to euphemise its perception and increase awareness/acceptance in future generations, or is it just a stupid *freaking fun and awesome* show?


FTFY


----------



## ggyo (May 14, 2013)

Chary said:


> Hey! HEY! New video, people.



 I have no interest in X and Y anymore. http://www.indiedb.com/games/pokemon-generations


----------



## Joe88 (May 14, 2013)

the video is not helping to show its not just the same slow recycled stuff over again


----------



## Eerpow (May 14, 2013)

To be fair GameFreak has said that they do target veteran players as well. The battle system is what makes people go back to Pokémon, there are people who takes it seriously and there are people that don't.
They've kept tweaking the battle system for those who care, if the series solely was intended for children there wouldn't be any new mechanics and tweaking involved at all, while not as complex as other RPG's out there it's still too complex for a child to fully grasp.
There is a competitive scene no matter how you look at it, and GameFreak is aware of it when designing their games. But that's not to say that it was like this from the beginning, the first games were regular RPG's for kids or people unfamiliar with the genre, much like how Street Fighter wasn't made with a competitive scene in mind in the first place either, combos were an accidental discovery by fans.

You're allowed to think what you will about the competitive fanbase, but the fact of the matter is that there is one and that GameFreak do things with the Pokémon games to cater to that audience too.

If rumors are true X and Y will have ways of looking at hidden values in game for those who are willing to go that far.


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 14, 2013)

ggyo said:


> No, the actual mathematics performed is simple. If you lose track of the EVs counted, calculating them is a little complex. But that's not a core part of the game that everybody uses.
> 
> The stories are simple. Exploration is simple. Battling is simple and has little depth, which is why intricate strategies are few and far between. And that's really all there is to any RPG. The story, the world, and the battles.
> 
> ...


LOL this guy....do you even play, bro? (no)
Raising pokemon: the math _is_ simple (usually, unless you're trying to figure out specific IV/EVs per individual pokemon while trying to maintain a certain hidden power move and while optimizing weather survivability or leftovers / leech seed recovery etc [but certainly you know absolutely nothing about this]), doesn't mean it takes zero effort, you're looking at maybe weeks to months in order to obtain suitable pokemon that were contrived of the game's mechanics and not cheats. Get this, some people enjoy the pay off after a long duration of effort, and I doubt little kids are the ones to utilize this system.



ggyo said:


> Battling is simple and has little depth


LOL _What?_ Here, have a parrot response since learning you about the game is a vain effort: Smogon.




ggyo said:


> I have no interest in X and Y anymore.


Good, makes it so much easier, buh-bye


----------



## Black-Ice (May 14, 2013)

6 months ago I would have viewed the conversation just had in a different light.

On a pokemon note, I can ride that grass-ram pokemon? It just got so much cooler, I need to have it.


----------



## ggyo (May 15, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> LOL this guy....do you even play, bro? (no)
> Raising pokemon: the math _is_ simple (usually, unless you're trying to figure out specific IV/EVs per individual pokemon while trying to maintain a certain hidden power move and while optimizing weather survivability or leftovers / leech seed recovery etc [but certainly you know absolutely nothing about this]), doesn't mean it takes zero effort, you're looking at maybe weeks to months in order to obtain suitable pokemon that were contrived of the game's mechanics and not cheats. Get this, some people enjoy the pay off after a long duration of effort, and I doubt little kids are the ones to utilize this system.
> 
> 
> ...


OR instead of dictating your opinions riddled with ad hominems, you could expand on why you think the way you do... but you won't do that, because your reasons aren't so solid.



Eerpow said:


> To be fair GameFreak has said that they do target veteran players as well. The battle system is what makes people go back to Pokémon, there are people who takes it seriously and there are people that don't.
> They've kept tweaking the battle system for those who care, if the series solely was intended for children there wouldn't be any new mechanics and tweaking involved at all, while not as complex as other RPG's out there it's still too complex for a child to fully grasp.
> There is a competitive scene no matter how you look at it, and GameFreak is aware of it when designing their games. But that's not to say that it was like this from the beginning, the first games were regular RPG's for kids or people unfamiliar with the genre, much like how Street Fighter wasn't made with a competitive scene in mind in the first place either, combos were an accidental discovery by fans.
> 
> ...


Okay, what exactly is a strategic battle plan in Pokemon?

Also, I actually google searched (that's right) these so-called elusive strategic Pokemon battles.


This is the final battle of a Pokemon COMPETITION (haha). It doesn't matter how "complex" your plan sounds on paper, but the "strategy" that's actually being implemented is basic...

So even at a highly competitive level, Pokemon is still strategically blunt.


----------



## Joe88 (May 15, 2013)

type advantage, but you still have unbalanced pokemon like magnezone and a few others


----------



## DiabloStorm (May 15, 2013)

ggyo said:


> blah blah blah


Hmm, nope. I don't seem to _owe you anything. _I've already expanded and I'm sure I could go on, just not for you. Wanna know why? Probably because _I don't care_. That's the way this works, you see, it comes and it goes. I have to actually give a shit or be bored enough to indulge.  Are you expecting me to win you over when it comes to the game? You said you have no interest anymore, so, move on.


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## ggyo (May 15, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> Hmm, nope. I don't seem to _owe you anything. _I've already expanded and I'm sure I could go on, just not for you. Wanna know why? Probably because _I don't care_. That's the way this works, you see, it comes and it goes. I have to actually give a shit or be bored enough to indulge.  Are you expecting me to win you over when it comes to the game? You said you have no interest anymore, so, move on.


I DO feel stupid now... a grown man arguing with a pre-pubescent punk... who also has downs syndrome(?).

In a debate, this would be called a reverse onus (more a legal term), where the burden of proof is shifted to you (to prove that Pokemon battles are complex). All in all, I lost sight of my original point; Pokemon, overall, is basic. The stories are basic, the exploration is basic, the battles ARE basis, and the only complex element to the game is the actual etymology of the "regions", and how they're all acutely based on real-life locations, down to the most minute of details.

So the only complex part of Pokemon has no relevancy to how the game is played.


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## DiabloStorm (May 15, 2013)

ggyo said:


> some ironic, ad hominem remarks


I don't owe you a dignified response. Apparently you don't get it, I don't win anything by appealing to you, we aren't on a debate team with a points system, you're free to think what you will. Just because I feel like being an ass to you today doesn't mean you need to bring your hatred of downs persons into this.


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## ggyo (May 15, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> I don't owe you a dignified response. Apparently you don't get it, I don't win anything by appealing to you, we aren't on a debate team with a points system, you're free to think what you will. Just because I feel like being an ass to you today doesn't mean you need to bring your hatred of downs persons into this.


 Downs Syndrome is a delay in maturation. I don't maintain discontent towards you because of your condition, but it does help me understand your perspective.

Haha, no, I'm just being passive aggressive. It's in pertainence to your immaturity. You can keep saying I'm wrong without justification, but how am I ever going to learn the truth if I actually am wrong? Usually when people don't bolster their own arguments, it's because they're insecure of their confined opinions and (subconsciously) see the flaws in their thought process, but to either discount their ego, defend their personal interests, or resist change, they resort to personal attacks (ad hominems) instead of expanding on the original argument.


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## gamefan5 (May 15, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Downs Syndrome is a delay in maturation. I don't maintain discontent towards you because of your condition, but it does help me understand your perspective.
> 
> Haha, no, I'm just being passive aggressive. It's in pertainence to your immaturity. You can keep saying I'm wrong without justification, but how am I ever going to learn the truth if I actually am wrong? Usually when people don't bolster their own arguments, it's because they're insecure of their confined opinions and (subconsciously) see the flaws in their thought process, but to either discount their ego, defend their personal interests, or resist change, they resort to personal attacks (ad hominems) instead of expanding on the original argument.


 
- Guy says an opinion.
- U try to explain your POV using an argument.
- Guy instantly dismiss it saying that he's right and everyone else is wrong.

Seems legit.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 15, 2013)

hmph hmph hmph someone dare said they think pokemon isn't complex this equates to a personal insult to me HARUMPH.

Like seriously dude it's _fucking Pokemon_.


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## gamefan5 (May 15, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> hmph hmph hmph someone dare said they think pokemon isn't complex this equates to a personal insult to me HARUMPH.
> 
> Like seriously dude it's _fucking Pokemon_.


Bro... sometimes people take video games way to fucking seriously...
And when it's pokemon debates, some retardedness is sure to follow.


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## Chary (May 15, 2013)

HEY, WHO WANTS TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD? HUH, WHATS THAT? YOU WANT PHOTOS?


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## broitsak (May 15, 2013)

I just read that the map is shaped like a star...

...why?


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## Chary (May 15, 2013)

Nxenz said:


> I just read that the map is shaped like a star...
> 
> ...why?


Because stars are cool. 
Actually, isn't this map only 1/3 of the entire region?


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## weavile001 (May 15, 2013)

Chary said:


> HEY, WHO WANTS TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD? HUH, WHATS THAT? YOU WANT PHOTOS?
> 
> -snip


 
I freaking loved the Y cover.



Chary said:


> Because stars are cool.
> Actually, isn't this map only 1/3 of the entire region?


yup.


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## Chary (May 15, 2013)

weavile001 said:


> I freaking loved the Y cover.
> 
> 
> yup.


I didn't know which game I was going to get, until I saw the coverart. (Unless game exclusives make me change my mind) Y's is much cooler than X's.


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## broitsak (May 15, 2013)

Chary said:


> Because stars are cool.
> Actually, isn't this map only 1/3 of the entire region?


It is?

Maybe others are downloadable...?

I don't know.


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## ggyo (May 15, 2013)

Chary said:


> HEY, WHO WANTS TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD? HUH, WHATS THAT? YOU WANT PHOTOS?


That's so France. The line of mountains dividing it from Germany, the coastal region... I actually can't wait for this game (to be honest), but for real, Generations seems to have the potential to be the Pokemon game I've always wanted.


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## broitsak (May 15, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Generations seems to have the potential to be the Pokemon game I've always wanted.


It has a pretty sweet battle system ah?
I can't wait till they update.


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## DiabloStorm (May 15, 2013)

ggyo said:


> I have no interest in X and Y anymore.





ggyo said:


> I actually can't wait for this game





Chary said:


> Because stars are cool.
> Actually, isn't this map only 1/3 of the entire region?


That's pretty awesome if this is only 1/3...this is gonna be huge (literally)


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## broitsak (May 15, 2013)

So the rest of the map we don't know about, is it also part of France?


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## ggyo (May 15, 2013)

DiabloStorm said:


> That's pretty awesome if this is only 1/3...this is gonna be huge (literally)


Hence the "(to be honest)" brackets. I was being hyperbolic of the Generations quality compared to X/Y. I don't mean to judge, but you seem bitter.

Edit:


Nxenz said:


> So the rest of the map we don't know about, is it also part of France?


Maybe it goes into Italy or Germany... but that's why I'm doubtful about this being only 1/3rd of the map. Look at the size of the main city (Paris) on the map in contrast to Unova's main city (New York/Castelia) on Unova's map. If they're maintaining geographical accuracy, like they've been doing, then this is the full map. France is divided from Europe by mountains, besides Belgium and Spain, and this map would corroborate with that.


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## Veho (May 15, 2013)

Chary said:


> HEY, WHO WANTS TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD? HUH, WHATS THAT? YOU WANT PHOTOS?


That top corner looks like a bear. Or something.


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