# Should we say RIP windows 7 now?



## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

Windows 7 is not supported by newer architectures and will not get any new technologies (like NVME support) and it will only get CRITICAL updates from now until 2020. since it is only getting critical updates it is practically dead isnt it?


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## tunip3 (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> Windows 7 is not supported by newer architectures and will not get any new technologies (like NVME support) and it will only get CRITICAL updates from now until 2020. since it is only getting critical updates it is practically dead isnt it?


Pretty much


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## Futurdreamz (Dec 14, 2017)

yes. you shouldn't be using it anyways, and if you have old or obsolete hardware you should look into replacing the system or devising a custom solution if the system is critical.


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## Kingy (Dec 14, 2017)

No.
Well, it depends on how you look at it, you can't get a 100% yes or no answer. But from me, no.

Why? Here. An OS that has 45.43% Desktop PC users using it wouldn't be "dead", in my opinion.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> yes. you shouldn't be using it anyways, and if you have old or obsolete hardware you should look into replacing the system or devising a custom solution if the system is critical.


my grandmas pc still runs windows 7my moms was forcibly upgraded to 10, mine came with 10, my dad upgraded his from 8.1 to 10


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## DinohScene (Dec 14, 2017)

Hey OP, ever heard of unofficial service packs/updates?


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## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Hey OP, ever heard of unofficial service packs/updates?


i don't dig windows 7 gold edition and i think those are for the most stubborn people that cannot seem to let go of their old hardware and even support for those end at some point


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## Kingy (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> i don't dig windows 7 gold edition and i think those are for the most stubborn people that cannot seem to let go of their old hardware and even support for those end at some point


Not everybody likes what you like. They may not like Win8.1+, and they may not like the alternatives of Win7.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

TheKingy34 said:


> Not everybody likes what you like. They may not like Win8.1+, and they may not like the alternatives of Win7.


honestly windows 8.1 might be my next best bet but they are doing a similar thing with that too Microsoft is only concerned on 10

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Futurdreamz said:


> I'm sure his grandmother would _love_ to take time away from her knitting to learn how to be a computer technician.


i am her computer technician i am the one who fixed it when the hard drive died


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## DinohScene (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> i don't dig windows 7 gold edition and i think those are for the most stubborn people that cannot seem to let go of their old hardware and even support for those end at some point



Try playing a Win 95 game on Win7.
-snip-


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## Minox (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> Windows 7 is not supported by newer architectures and will not get any new technologies (like NVME support) and it will only get CRITICAL updates from now until 2020. since it is only getting critical updates it is practically dead isnt it?


What are you on about? NVMe works just fine in Windows 7 provided you have the drivers for it.


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## leon315 (Dec 14, 2017)

there was free update to win10, why didn't u guys do that?


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## DarthDub (Dec 14, 2017)

I just got an update yesterday. Hardly far from dead if you ask me.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

Minox said:


> What are you on about? NVMe works just fine in Windows 7 provided you have the drivers for it.


i cant put a coffee lake cpu in there


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## Minox (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> i cant put a coffee lake cpu in there


And how does that relate to NVMe?


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> Windows 7 is not supported by newer architectures and will not get any new technologies (like NVME support) and it will only get CRITICAL updates from now until 2020. since it is only getting critical updates it is practically dead isnt it?



Until Microsoft say so. It is still much alive and the critical update is still activate. My other laptop update from Windows 7 to Windows 10 because I feel that it is the time to do so. I have MAC, by the way.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

Minox said:


> And how does that relate to NVMe?


i was just using NVME as an example you cannot put anything newer than skylake and install windows 7 on it


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## Minox (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> i was just using NVME as an example you cannot put anything newer than skylake and install windows 7 on it


It's an incorrect example then since NVMe works just fine with Windows 7.


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## migles (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> i was just using NVME as an example you cannot put anything newer than skylake and install windows 7 on it


you can, i just did installed windows 7 in my kaby lake in my samsung nvme a month ago..
but trying to get updates throws up the "your cpu is too new" message, i am sure there is a not official way of getting rid of that shit and still get the updates tough
but installing and using windows 7 works fine

however, windows 7 or older will give you pain with usb 3.0 in some cases, and that doesn't matter to which cpu you have


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## Dominator211 (Dec 14, 2017)

Minox said:


> It's an incorrect example then since NVMe works just fine with Windows 7.


then let me rephrase my sentence Microsoft i slowly killing it because it doesn't have support for newer cpus


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## Minox (Dec 14, 2017)

migles said:


> you can, i just did installed windows 7 in my kaby lake in my samsung nvme a month ago..
> but trying to get updates throws up the "your cpu is too new" message, i am sure there is a not official way of getting rid of that shit and still get the updates tough
> but installing and using windows 7 works fine
> 
> however, windows 7 will give you pain with usb 3.0 in some cases, and that doesn't matter to which cpu you have


If you slipstream USB3 drivers into the Windows 7 installer you shouldn't have too many issues getting through the installer.


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## wicksand420 (Dec 14, 2017)

I run windows 7 without problems, it's not that i'm stubborn, it is that i can't afford a new OS, and I think i'm not alone either. the simple fact is that when microsoft comes out with a new OS, should we all run to them and throw our money away?


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## Jayro (Dec 14, 2017)

I consider it a dead platform already, alongside Windows 8 (8.1 and 10 are current). But I won't be dropping the Windows 7 Recovery Disc from MediCat for a few years yet.


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## fst312 (Dec 14, 2017)

I still use windows 7, I don't see a point to upgrade, if someone is to bring up games, I don't play pc games, unless you count those rare moments that haven't happened for a long time, when I use my pc for emulators and i can't remember the last time i did that.


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## Jayro (Dec 14, 2017)

wicksand420 said:


> I run windows 7 without problems, it's not that i'm stubborn, it is that i can't afford a new OS, and I think i'm not alone either. the simple fact is that when microsoft comes out with a new OS, should we all run to them and throw our money away?


Windows 10 was free when it came out. And for an entire year. So that's not an excuse in this case. Everyone and their mom's dog got the memo too, so you'd have to be living without internet NOT to know about it.


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## wicksand420 (Dec 14, 2017)

Jayro said:


> Windows 10 was free when it came out. And for an entire year. So that's not an excuse in this case. Everyone and their mom's dog got the memo too, so you'd have to be living without internet NOT to know about it.


If it aint broke, don't fix it?


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## nl255 (Dec 14, 2017)

migles said:


> you can, i just did installed windows 7 in my kaby lake in my samsung nvme a month ago..
> but trying to get updates throws up the "your cpu is too new" message, i am sure there is a not official way of getting rid of that shit and still get the updates tough
> but installing and using windows 7 works fine
> 
> however, windows 7 or older will give you pain with usb 3.0 in some cases, and that doesn't matter to which cpu you have



There is an open source patch that bypasses the CPU check that doesn't even modify any system files but patches out the check in memory.  I use it for my Win7 VMs as it is much easier than setting up virtualbox to fake the CPU version and good luck running more than two copies of Windows 10 even with 24GB of RAM.


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## smf (Dec 14, 2017)

wicksand420 said:


> If it aint broke, don't fix it?



So you would never service a car? Check the oil etc? You'll wait for the car to die before doing anything.

Good to know.


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## ihaveahax (Dec 14, 2017)

windows 7 is only really dead when it stops getting security updates. the fact that newer processors aren't being supported is annoying, but sort-of expected for a system currently in extended support.

what's really bullshit is windows 8.1 is not getting support for these processors, despite being in MAINSTREAM support, i.e. the stage where windows 8.1 is expected to get support for new hardware released during this period.


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## comput3rus3r (Dec 14, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> Windows 7 is not supported by newer architectures and will not get any new technologies (like NVME support) and it will only get CRITICAL updates from now until 2020. since it is only getting critical updates it is practically dead isnt it?


you are grossly misinformed. I have a windows 7 installation usb stick with nvme driver support. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show you how to install win 7 on pc's with nvme drives and 8th gen intel processors. support doesn't equal compatibility. just do a little research.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Here I'll save you some time


I used this to install windows 7 with usb drivers and nvme support.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 14, 2017)

I am content to have windows 7 on machines I am responsible for (and my general policy on such things is I will clean up your virus woes but much prefer to be called to even debug a spreadsheet better yet teach you something cool and thus take steps to avoid virus woes).

Calling it dead seems to be massively premature (got two years before the end official support). Indeed I much much prefer 7 to 10 and am quite happy to have put the windows 10 update killer on all the machines I did. I know I can make 10 usable but why bother.

Should firefox chuck in the towel before said support ends in 2020 (I assume Chrome is still disappearing up its own arse) then I might revisit "dead or not" issue but that would be what I consider done. If skype is still relevant then and somehow does not support 7 (would be odd but nobody is likely to call modern skype competently managed and coded) then also maybe.

If you are the type inclined to be bored by very nicely shaded polygons of the higher end games world then you are used to paying through the nose for things and generally operate in a different world to the rest of us. Given said new hardware does not allow much radical change beyond that, has no major security woes and basic day to day/office/internet stuff more or less continues to be perfectly doable on core2 era machines, never mind things far newer than that, then eh. At that point a nice refurb machine for pocket change will do me stunningly again.
I doubt I will be downgrading anything to 7 that does not need it (don't know if I have encountered that yet, plenty of things that don't work on anything newer than XP but not 7 yet) but at the same time I am not going to be pushing 10.


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## wicksand420 (Dec 14, 2017)

smf said:


> So you would never service a car? Check the oil etc? You'll wait for the car to die before doing anything.
> 
> Good to know.


that has nothing to do with what i said, its more like, i have a car from the 90's and the car company comes out and say's, we stopped making parts for your car, buy a new one.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 16, 2017)

comput3rus3r said:


> you are grossly misinformed. I have a windows 7 installation usb stick with nvme driver support. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show you how to install win 7 on pc's with nvme drives and 8th gen intel processors. support doesn't equal compatibility. just do a little research.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...





comput3rus3r said:


> you are grossly misinformed. I have a windows 7 installation usb stick with nvme driver support. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show you how to install win 7 on pc's with nvme drives and 8th gen intel processors. support doesn't equal compatibility. just do a little research.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



i wont get Minecraft windows 10 edition which is more efficient


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## Captain_N (Dec 16, 2017)

leon315 said:


> there was free update to win10, why didn't u guys do that?


Because windows 10 is horrible that's why. You have to use a third party app to have a decent start button. Ms records alot of user activity and sends data to ms. The wireless networking interface is shit. the you need to be able to get into settings to boot to safe mode is crap. The bland user interface is crap. i can go on but i think you get the point.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 16, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> Because windows 10 is horrible that's why. You have to use a third party app to have a decent start button. Ms records alot of user activity and sends data to ms. The wireless networking interface is shit. the you need to be able to get into settings to boot to safe mode is crap. The bland user interface is crap. i can go on but i think you get the point.


No idea what you mean by "Decent start menu" since it's basically an improved Windows 7 start menu, but with tiles (that you can remove). That's more personal taste than anything. Same with your "bland interface" complaint. 

MS added patches that records user data on XP+, so unless you're using Windows 98, that argument is invalid. Get off the internet if you're really that butthur5 about your privacy. Unless you're only using Tor 24/7, your "precious user data" is being shared by various programs and sites, regardless of OS. 

You don't need to use the Windows 10 wifi interface, you still have access to all pre-windows 10 settings, you literally just have to open control panel as normal. Though no idea why you think it's bad, it basically streamlines connecting to access points. Boohoo?

And you don't need to "go into settings" to reboot into safe mode, you just hold shift when you click restart, and then choose advanced boot options. Literally takes less time than previous methods and two whole button presses. 

If you're gonna bitch and moan about an OS, at least know what you're talking about instead of joining a baseless circle jerk


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## Dominator211 (Dec 16, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> Because windows 10 is horrible that's why. You have to use a third party app to have a decent start button. Ms records alot of user activity and sends data to ms. The wireless networking interface is shit. the you need to be able to get into settings to boot to safe mode is crap. The bland user interface is crap. i can go on but i think you get the point.


it is kinda love-hate relationship with me and windows 10


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## Joom (Dec 17, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> The bland user interface is crap.


Wait, you actually like Aero? Jesus fuck, how can you actually complain about Metro? Aero was uglier than sin during the transparency/gradient fad, and it's not gotten better with age. Also, I find it hilariously ironic that people here, on a homebrew oriented forum of all places, still don't know about UX style patching. Behold; what anyone can do on Windows 10 in five minutes.


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## Jayro (Dec 17, 2017)

One of the Windows 8 betas had a really sexy Aero theme, I just forget which build number it was. It had the flatness of 8/10, but still kept the blurred glass effect from 7/Vista. I think it was built mid-Metro UI transition. But god-damn it was sexy. And I'm sad the beta This PC and Networking icons got scrapped, they looked modern as hell. They were only in a build or two. Wish I had screenshots.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Dec 17, 2017)

I got windows 10 when I bought my new laptop. I bought a $10 product key and installed it no problem. At the time it was the only way I was gonna play killer instinct without owning a xbox one. Had I known It was gonna be on steam later in the year, I may have not installed windows 10. My previous laptop has Windows 7 and used it for 5 years. They offered me a free upgrade to windows 10 but was reluctant cause of the outdated hardware not supporting it. The only thing annoying with windows 10 is that it has it's own app store, and some apps don't allow use cause of some advance permissions required other than just having admin permission. I also notice the system crashes a bit often for something I had only about 6 months, I haven't installed anything unsafe and had no reports of viruses either.

Is not bad but is not much better than it was before. Some features seem okay while others like cortana get unused. I mostly use it for amusement at times.


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## RedBlueGreen (Dec 17, 2017)

There's really not much reason to upgrade if you still like 7. It's the last version of Windows to have decent audio drivers. Apparently performance is pretty similar between 7, 8, 8.1, and 10. The Creators update for Windows 10 also fucked up my download speed on my desktop.


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## Clector (Dec 17, 2017)

I don"t think that Windows 7 is dead yet, it is only in extended support so it"s notmal to expect they to don"t want to give it official support, they should with Windows 8.1 but they didn"t.
As for using Windows I personally recommended (if one needs to use it) to use Windows 7 or 8.1, but really skip over Windows 10 as long as possible, not because the Start button or any of that. But because it gives an horrible privacy to the user, it limits a lot of options of the system that it shouldn"t, run a lot of things in background to backtrack user information, it silently installs "sugestted applications" without asking the user at all and a lot of more things. Yes, you can dig in the system and get rid of most of them, but for a lot you can"t directly and to begin with all of that kind options shouldn"t be activated by default to begin with; and also the sytem usually tends to activate some of them again when one updates it and Microsoft just keeps adding things like that with the new updates, so it"s kind of an endless cycle at the end.


Jayro said:


> One of the Windows 8 betas had a really sexy Aero theme, I just forget which build number it was. It had the flatness of 8/10, but still kept the blurred glass effect from 7/Vista. I think it was built mid-Metro UI transition. But god-damn it was sexy. And I'm sad the beta This PC and Networking icons got scrapped, they looked modern as hell. They were only in a build or two. Wish I had screenshots.


Yes,it could be nice if they included a theme like that in the final Windows 8; I think that it may be the build 8102, I think that there are videos of it, you can check a video and see if is that one, it still has the Start button with the classic Windows logo.


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## BlueFox gui (Dec 17, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Hey OP, ever heard of unofficial service packs/updates?


wato
i never heard about it, this is interesting


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

At the latest, everyone should upgrade to a new operating system after Windows 7 stops receiving security support in January of 2020. Legally upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 is still free if one knows what he or she is doing.


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## BlueFox gui (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> At the latest, everyone should upgrade to a new operating system after Windows 7 stops receiving security support in January of 2020. Legally upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 is still free if one knows what he or she is doing.


my lappy came with windows 8.1
my brother tried to install windows 10 and it was weird and slow, and my old brother after format installed windows 7 ultimate lol
i guess i will have to install windows 8.1 again xD


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> my lappy came with windows 8.1
> my brother tried to install windows 10 and it was weird and slow, and my old brother after format installed windows 7 ultimate lol
> i guess i will have to install windows 8.1 again xD


There's no reason for Windows 10 to be "weird and slow." If I were you, I'd backup anything important and do a clean installation of Windows 10 1709.

Nobody should be using Windows 8.1 after it loses security support in 2023.


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## astrangeone (Dec 17, 2017)

As someone who stayed with Windows 7 on purpose.  Yeah, I rather use something that doesn't have the UI of a tablet on my laptop.  This is sensible and it looks cleaner, plus my laptop is older and probably runs like shit on anything newer than that (so much bloatware).


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## FAST6191 (Dec 17, 2017)

Joom said:


> Also, I find it hilariously ironic that people here, on a homebrew oriented forum of all places, still don't know about UX style patching.


Barring the likes of classic start that whole world kind of went out with Vista though. I am not entirely sad to see it gone either, certainly makes setting a new machine up far easier when it is just install, https://ninite.com/ and install adblock as well as copy bookmarks rather than having to make something custom with nlite or dick around with tweak ui.

That said I like the windows 2000/xp classic look so I probably should stop here.


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## jefffisher (Dec 17, 2017)

i'm still using windows 7 and plan on continuing until it's no longer possible.


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> i'm still using windows 7 and plan on continuing until it's no longer possible.


Do you mean when it loses security support, or do you mean sometime beyond that?


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## jefffisher (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> Do you mean when it loses security support, or do you mean sometime beyond that?


until my hardware is no longer compatible whether that be before or after who knows.


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## DeadlyFoez (Dec 17, 2017)

I'm still on 7 and I don't plan to go to any newer windows version. Once the EOL support time has come then I will be running linux only on my machine. I don't trust microsoft. They have made far too many mistakes over the years and they continue to do stupid shit that affects the end user far too much. They are no longer a company that makes great software that they sell, they now are an advertisement firm hence why they give windows 10 away for free while still shafting everyone with this telemetry bullshit.


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## DinohScene (Dec 17, 2017)

BlueFox gui said:


> wato
> i never heard about it, this is interesting



Google Win 98 unofficial updates.
Or Win 98 Kernel extension.


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## brunocar (Dec 17, 2017)

TheKingy34 said:


> No.
> Well, it depends on how you look at it, you can't get a 100% yes or no answer. But from me, no.
> 
> Why? Here. An OS that has 45.43% Desktop PC users using it wouldn't be "dead", in my opinion.


people said the same about XP when W7 came out


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> until my hardware is no longer compatible whether that be before or after who knows.


It is highly recommended that one use an operating system that at the very least continues to receive security updates. For Windows operating systems, those would be the following:

Windows 7 SP1 (stops receiving security updates in 2020)
Windows 8.1 (stops receiving security updates in 2023)
Windows 10 (stops receiving security updates in 2025, but it will almost certainly get a free update to the operating system that succeeds it)


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## MrDavidPerson (Dec 17, 2017)

I got a duel boot set up on my computer so I can use windows 7 (witch I still prefer over 10) and use windows 10 for the few things that need windows 10.


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## smf (Dec 17, 2017)

DeadlyFoez said:


> I'm still on 7 and I don't plan to go to any newer windows version. Once the EOL support time has come then I will be running linux only on my machine. I don't trust microsoft. They have made far too many mistakes over the years and they continue to do stupid shit that affects the end user far too much. They are no longer a company that makes great software that they sell, they now are an advertisement firm hence why they give windows 10 away for free while still shafting everyone with this telemetry bullshit.



If you don't trust them and plan to switch to linux, then why haven't you done so already?

Linux has too many exploits for me.



Lacius said:


> Windows 10 (stops receiving security updates in 2025, but it will almost certainly get a free update to the operating system that succeeds it)



Microsoft's official position is still that Windows 10 is going to be the last version of Windows ever. So either 2025 will be moved, or there will be some new technology that justifies throwing away Windows which may not work on your current machine anyway. They might not know themselves which way it's going to go.


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## Joom (Dec 17, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> rather than having to make something custom with nlite or dick around with tweak ui.


I'm talking about patching the UX style DLLs and using custom visual styles. I've never even heard of those tools.


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

smf said:


> Microsoft's official position is still that Windows 10 is going to be the last version of Windows ever. So either 2025 will be moved, or there will be some new technology that justifies throwing away Windows which may not work on your current machine anyway. They might not know themselves which way it's going to go.


Yes, Windows 10 is supposed to be the last Windows version one buys. In other words, there are two likely outcomes:

The 2025 date is just a legal placeholder, and it will be moved.
A new version of Windows will come out (e.g. Windows 11), and it will just be another in a long list of yearly Windows updates that Windows 10 users receive automatically and for free. Like all other Windows 10 updates, it will also be required for one to continue receiving security updates.
One of the reasons a lot of technology companies are moving to the "OS as a service" model is so they only have around one iteration of their software being supported at a time, which makes things a lot easier. Google Chrome has only had to worry about supporting one version of its browser at a time, not including different OS support. Adobe moved to a service model, allowing them to only have to support one version of each of their programs and making people update to them. Apple moved to a similar system not long ago. It wasn't long ago that Microsoft supported five different operating systems at a time, and they had to worry about leaving people with an insecure operating system when they stopped supporting one. After Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 bite the dust, Microsoft only has to worry about updating and maintaining Windows 10, and with Windows 10 being supported indefinitely, they don't have to worry about leaving people with insecure operating systems since they will be automatically migrated to new versions. This also makes things easier for other software providers, since they only have to worry about making their programs compatible with one version of an operating system. Instead of making sure Firefox is compatible with Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 10, for example, they will in the future only have to worry about making sure it's compatible with Windows 10.


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## 330 (Dec 17, 2017)

I will skip the first month or two of the new significant OS upgrade because I'm afraid of incompatibility issues and exploits. I don't care that they will get fixed very soon, I just don't want to deal with the hassle. Past that, I'm always upgrading.

I understand that there always going to be hardware incompatibilities, but this isn't 2006. If my everyday machine has major issues with an OS like Windows 10 then I shouldn't be using that machine at all.


To anticipate some questions:

- Yes, Windows Vista was great after a few tweaks. Have used it since the beta until 2013.
- Yes, I did miss the start button in Windows 8. Nothing that the good people from Stardock couldn't fix, though.
- No, I don't mind Windows 10's "privacy issues" because I can read what the OS is asking me to set up before the installation. I also use additional tools to protect my privacy.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 17, 2017)

Joom said:


> I'm talking about patching the UX style DLLs and using custom visual styles. I've never even heard of those tools.


nlite is just a means to combine drivers (was nice when sata kicked off), service packs and a select bunch of registry and such tweaks into an XP install disc.

tweak ui was many of the same registry tweaks.

What you describe sounds closer to the full explorer replacements that also faded out with XP. For good reason most of the time as well -- so much incompatibility and annoyance...


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## the_randomizer (Dec 17, 2017)

MrDavidPerson said:


> I got a duel boot set up on my computer so I can use windows 7 (witch I still prefer over 10) and use windows 10 for the few things that need windows 10.



That's the best way to do it IMO


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## emigre (Dec 17, 2017)

I still use WIndows 7 on my work laptop. Fun fact, I know.


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

330 said:


> I will skip the first month or two of the new significant OS upgrade because I'm afraid of incompatibility issues and exploits. I don't care that they will get fixed very soon, I just don't want to deal with the hassle. Past that, I'm always upgrading.
> 
> I understand that there always going to be hardware incompatibilities, but this isn't 2006. If my everyday machine has major issues with an OS like Windows 10 then I shouldn't be using that machine at all.
> 
> ...


You could always use the LTSB of Windows 10 and only receive security updates for ten years.


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## DeadlyFoez (Dec 17, 2017)

smf said:


> If you don't trust them and plan to switch to linux, then why haven't you done so already?
> 
> Linux has too many exploits for me.


I use Kali Linux a bit, just not full time. I have been slowly transitioning for a number of years now so u can be used to linux when i decide to fully make the switch.


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## Captain_N (Dec 17, 2017)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> No idea what you mean by "Decent start menu" since it's basically an improved Windows 7 start menu, but with tiles (that you can remove). That's more personal taste than anything. Same with your "bland interface" complaint.
> 
> MS added patches that records user data on XP+, so unless you're using Windows 98, that argument is invalid. Get off the internet if you're really that butthur5 about your privacy. Unless you're only using Tor 24/7, your "precious user data" is being shared by various programs and sites, regardless of OS.
> 
> ...



lol so much salt in your response. The ocean called and wants it salt back. I suppose the forum rules dont apply to you do they. I thought one of the rules was not to call others names. Well anyways. I dont like windows 10 and never will. I have used windows 3.11,95,98,2000,xp,2003,vista,7,server 2008 R2,8,8.1 and 10. I hated 8 and hate 10. lol holding shift yeah i know a lot of good that is when you cant restart because one of the many forced updates messed the boot sequence and the boot repair fails.... I have fixed to many patch fail machines. Oh that reminds me Another problem with 10 Forced updates.


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## Flame (Dec 17, 2017)

if Microsoft didn't have such big monopoly, if any other company or project or what ever did with its User interface and fucked up. it will long be around. im mean i have Windows 10 on some setups, its cause i have too.

windows 8 and 8.1 was the biggest fuck up ever. EVER! you build a UI around the user not the other way around.


----------



## codezer0 (Dec 17, 2017)

leon315 said:


> there was free update to win10, why didn't u guys do that?


No nvidia chipset drivers, for one. The system that used to be my main PC is an nforce 680i board. I still use that machine pretty regularly, even if not the machine I type on.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

leon315 said:


> there was free update to win10, why didn't u guys do that?


You can still do the free update if you know what you're doing.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 17, 2017)

Yes. Good riddance


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## ihaveahax (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> You can still do the free update if you know what you're doing.


if you're talking about the accessibility thing, this will expire on december 31.


----------



## LaPingas (Dec 17, 2017)

I get when people say that win7 is more basic and comfortable for them, but the security argument is just dumb. Want that MS, FB and all the other companies won't collect info about you? Get out of the internet or else you can't avoid it. And it's not like it hurts in most cases.


----------



## YTElias (Dec 17, 2017)

ihaveamac said:


> if you're talking about the accessibility thing, this will expire on december 31.


oh boi
time too download it


----------



## Dominator211 (Dec 17, 2017)

Heh, look at me making a thread everyone can talk about!!! 

If it were only a little easier to make windows 10 look like 7 I would do i... I don't have a problem with the icons but I just don't like the theme even with it set with my favorite color..... i just wish that Microsoft would respect our wishes and let us do what we want....


----------



## YTElias (Dec 17, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> Heh, look at me making a thread everyone can talk about!!!
> 
> If it were only a little easier to make windows 10 look like 7 I would do i... I don't have a problem with the icons but I just don't like the theme even with it set with my favorite color..... i just wish that Microsoft would respect our wishes and let us do what we want....


create your own windows


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## Dominator211 (Dec 17, 2017)

YTElias said:


> create your own windows


now... as fun as that will be.... i have no time nor money to do something like that


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## YTElias (Dec 17, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> now... as fun as that will be.... i have no time nor money to do something like that


you can do it
just with a little I M A G I N A T I O N


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## Dominator211 (Dec 17, 2017)

YTElias said:


> you can do it
> just with a little I M A G I N A T I O N


HA HA!!! i am a student i dont have time to make my OWN os


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## leon315 (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> You can still do the free update if you know what you're doing.


i did to all my pcs, all my computers have win 10 now and i'm happy


----------



## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

ihaveamac said:


> if you're talking about the accessibility thing, this will expire on december 31.


I'm not talking about the accessibility thing. I'm talking about the gatherosstate.exe method.


----------



## jefffisher (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> It is highly recommended that one use an operating system that at the very least continues to receive security updates. For Windows operating systems, those would be the following:
> 
> Windows 7 SP1 (stops receiving security updates in 2020)
> Windows 8.1 (stops receiving security updates in 2023)
> Windows 10 (stops receiving security updates in 2025, but it will almost certainly get a free update to the operating system that succeeds it)


I have updates disabled my windows 7 is still a day 1 install


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## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> I have updates disabled my windows 7 is still a day 1 install


From a security standpoint, that's not a very smart thing to do.


----------



## jefffisher (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> From a security standpoint, that's not a very smart thing to do.


If you're relying on Windows updates for security your security is already failed


----------



## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> If you're relying on Windows updates for security your security is already failed


Please don't confuse _sensible security_ with _reliance_.

Edit: Off the top of my head, your computer is vulnerable to the KRACK WPA2 vulnerability and WannaCry ransomware variants. I don't know why a person would willing choose to have known vulnerabilities, specifically ones like those listed above that require no human error from the user.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Dec 17, 2017)

Lacius said:


> Please don't confuse _sensible security_ with _reliance_.
> 
> Edit: Off the top of my head, your computer is vulnerable to the KRACK WPA2 vulnerability and WannaCry ransomware variants. I don't know why a person would willing choose to have known vulnerabilities, specifically ones like those listed above that require no human error from the user.


It's all fun and games until they apply for credit cards in your name.


----------



## Deleted-394630 (Dec 17, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> i don't dig windows 7 gold edition and i think those are for the most stubborn people that cannot seem to let go of their old hardware and even support for those end at some point


Windows 7 gold edition is fucking ugly, I mean look at that start button:





*WHO THE FUCK THINKS THAT LOOKS OKAY?*

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Captain_N said:


> lol so much salt in your response. The ocean called and wants it salt back. I suppose the forum rules dont apply to you do they. I thought one of the rules was not to call others names. Well anyways. I dont like windows 10 and never will. I have used windows 3.11,95,98,2000,xp,2003,vista,7,server 2008 R2,8,8.1 and 10. I hated 8 and hate 10. lol holding shift yeah i know a lot of good that is when you cant restart because one of the many forced updates messed the boot sequence and the boot repair fails.... I have fixed to many patch fail machines. Oh that reminds me Another problem with 10 Forced updates.


These are still primarily opinions, not facts. Nobody gives a shit if you "like" Windows 10 or 8/8.1, if you don't back it up with facts, people will reply calling you out. Not really sure what you expected.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 17, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> If you're relying on Windows updates for security your security is already failed


There's a typical foil hat response.

It's not a secret these security updates actually do what they say. Every day a new exploit is found.. You really think these updates don't fix them?


----------



## Futurdreamz (Dec 17, 2017)

Memoir said:


> There's a typical foil hat response.
> 
> It's not a secret these security updates actually do what they say. Every day a new exploit is found.. You really think these updates don't fix them?


It's almost like keeping your chequebook on the windowsill because you're convinced the manufacturer put a camera in your safe.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 17, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> It's almost like keeping your chequebook on the windowsill because you're convinced the manufacturer put a camera in your safe.


This is an incredibly good analogy for what @jefffisher is doing.


----------



## jefffisher (Dec 18, 2017)

Lacius said:


> Please don't confuse _sensible security_ with _reliance_.
> 
> Edit: Off the top of my head, your computer is vulnerable to the KRACK WPA2 vulnerability and WannaCry ransomware variants. I don't know why a person would willing choose to have known vulnerabilities, specifically ones like those listed above that require no human error from the user.


i mean i guess, but my computer isn't wireless, i have everything backed up and a stolen credit card isn't anything but an inconvenience.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 18, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> i mean i guess, but my computer isn't wireless, i have everything backed up and a stolen credit card isn't anything but an inconvenience.


Getting a filling is an inconvenience, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop brushing my teeth.


----------



## ihaveahax (Dec 18, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> i mean i guess, but my computer isn't wireless, i have everything backed up and a stolen credit card isn't anything but an inconvenience.


I hope you don't go online with this machine, otherwise you're just running a security risk. why waste time having to restore everything when you get malware, and update it so you don't have to deal with it?

if one of the reasons is "lots of updates to install": there is a convenience rollup available (downloads: x86, x64) so you can easily install nearly all updates from Win7 SP1 release (Feb 22, 2011) to April 2016. this lets you save lots of time when updating a new install. you would need to install SP1 and KB3020369 first.


----------



## 330 (Dec 18, 2017)

Lacius said:


> You could always use the LTSB of Windows 10 and only receive security updates for ten years.


By significant OS upgrades I meant when a brand new OS version is released. I trust the regular OS updates enough to keep the auto updates on.


----------



## Joom (Dec 18, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> nlite is just a means to combine drivers (was nice when sata kicked off), service packs and a select bunch of registry and such tweaks into an XP install disc.
> 
> tweak ui was many of the same registry tweaks.
> 
> What you describe sounds closer to the full explorer replacements that also faded out with XP. For good reason most of the time as well -- so much incompatibility and annoyance...


No, I'm not talking about changing the shell. I'm talking about using custom visual styles, and they're very much still alive and well. Windows themes (not color themes) like Aero, Lunar, and Metro, are called visual styles. You can use custom ones by patching certain system DLLs, and dropping them in C:\Windows\Resources\Themes. Further patching can be done to change Explorer ribbon bar icons and all that good stuff. You can also manually do it with Resource Hacker. Just go to DeviantArt and search "Windows visual styles". There's hundreds. 

Also, bblean is still a decent shell replacement provided you know how *box window managers work. It's probably the only one that has aged well. I should probably also mention this.


----------



## Futurdreamz (Dec 18, 2017)

Neon is a pretty nice shell however. Windows 10 is constantly evolving, and I'd be more concerned about visual style hacks breaking things.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 18, 2017)

330 said:


> By significant OS upgrades I meant when a brand new OS version is released. I trust the regular OS updates enough to keep the auto updates on.


Each year, the new Windows 10 feature update is an OS upgrade. In other words, each year's big Windows 10 update is analogous to the Windows 8.1 update; the only difference is how they're naming them. The following are all different operating systems that install over the old ones:

Windows 10 version 1507 (RTM)
Windows 10 version 1511
Windows 10 version 1607
Windows 10 version 1703
Windows 10 version 1709


----------



## Joom (Dec 18, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> If it were only a little easier to make windows 10 look like 7 I would do i... I don't have a problem with the icons but I just don't like the theme even with it set with my favorite color..... i just wish that Microsoft would respect our wishes and let us do what we want....


I don't know why you'd want this, but it takes like five minutes to set up.
https://www.deviantart.com/art/Aero-7-Themes-for-Win10-Final-523979941



Lacius said:


> I don't know why a person would willing choose to have known vulnerabilities, specifically ones like those listed above that require no human error from the user.


He's a wingnut conspiracy theorist. They're typically hugely ignorant, and have their heads so far up their own asses that they can lick stomach bile. Whatever man. Welcome to the ZeuS net. His financial information is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Deleted User (Dec 18, 2017)

Lacius said:


> It is highly recommended that one use an operating system that at the very least continues to receive security updates. For Windows operating systems, those would be the following:
> 
> Windows 7 SP1 (stops receiving security updates in 2020)
> Windows 8.1 (stops receiving security updates in 2023)
> Windows 10 (stops receiving security updates in 2025, but it will almost certainly get a free update to the operating system that succeeds it)


You're implying Windows 10 isn't the final windows. I dunno, I just think 10 is going to be the definitive windows, Microsoft will just keep adding onto it. It's certainly not going to get replaced in 2025.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 18, 2017)

codezer0 said:


> No nvidia chipset drivers, for one. The system that used to be my main PC is an nforce 680i board. I still use that machine pretty regularly, even if not the machine I type on.



You can still get the upgrade if you're willing to abuse a certain Microsoft Accessibility method. I won't provide links on how to do that, I suggest Google.


----------



## jefffisher (Dec 18, 2017)

ihaveamac said:


> I hope you don't go online with this machine, otherwise you're just running a security risk. why waste time having to restore everything when you get malware, and update it so you don't have to deal with it?
> 
> if one of the reasons is "lots of updates to install": there is a convenience rollup available (downloads: x86, x64) so you can easily install nearly all updates from Win7 SP1 release (Feb 22, 2011) to April 2016. this lets you save lots of time when updating a new install. you would need to install SP1 and KB3020369 first.


haven't had a problem in 8 years, realistically i think you're much more likely to get hit with new malware than old something that makes it past everything else is probably not going to be stopped by a windows update.
you're probably either just paranoid or the type of guy to get viruses.


----------



## codezer0 (Dec 18, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> You can still get the upgrade if you're willing to abuse a certain Microsoft Accessibility method. I won't provide links on how to do that, I suggest Google.


That wouldn't help, if there are no motherboard drivers for it to work with the hardware.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 18, 2017)

codezer0 said:


> That wouldn't help, if there are no motherboard drivers for it to work with the hardware.



Okay that just freaking blows, to which I want to say to the manufacturer: what's wrong nVidia, afraid to make proper drivers?   Windows 10 sure seems all it's cracked up to be, amirite?


----------



## Joom (Dec 18, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> haven't had a problem in 8 years, realistically i think you're much more likely to get hit with new malware than old something that makes it past everything else is probably not going to be stopped by a windows update.
> you're probably either just paranoid or the type of guy to get viruses.


You don't seem to understand how sophisticated malware works. Those that know what they're doing can bypass any AV detection. Even if it's not apparent, you're probably already part of a botnet. People like you are even more wide open because people like you think they know what they're doing when they don't. You're an idiot. It's the cold, hard truth. Even if you think you're being safe by preventing big, bad telemetrics from Microsoft by preventing updates, you're just opening yourself to any 14 year old with a Beta Bot setup. I honestly can't pity you, either. You are willingly allowing anyone into your computer because you ignorantly believe that Microsoft is out to get you more than actual malicious entities. Like I said, welcome to the ZeuS net. You are part of the conglomerate due to sheer stupidity.



codezer0 said:


> That wouldn't help, if there are no motherboard drivers for it to work with the hardware.


Stop using a 12 year old PC. It's pretty easy.


----------



## RandomUser (Dec 18, 2017)

Lacius said:


> From a security standpoint, that's not a very smart thing to do.


Well shit, I guess I'm dumb then. Running day one Server 2012 OS install for nearly 5 or 6 years without a breach or problem.



jefffisher said:


> haven't had a problem in 8 years, realistically i think you're much more likely to get hit with new malware than old something that makes it past everything else is probably not going to be stopped by a windows update.
> you're probably either just paranoid or the type of guy to get viruses.


I'm in a same boat as you it seems.



Joom said:


> You don't seem to understand how sophisticated malware works. Those that know what they're doing can bypass any AV detection. Even if it's not apparent, you're probably already part of a botnet. People like you are even more wide open because people like you think they know what they're doing when they don't. You're an idiot. It's the cold, hard truth. Even if you think you're being safe by preventing big, bad telemetrics from Microsoft by preventing updates, you're just opening yourself to any 14 year old with a Beta Bot setup. I honestly can't pity you, either. You are willingly allowing anyone into your computer because you ignorantly believe that Microsoft is out to get you more than actual malicious entities. Like I said, welcome to the ZeuS net. You are part of the conglomerate due to sheer stupidity.


I know this quote isn't for me, but it does pertain to me, the beauty of my setup is that everything is lost the moment the computer reboots or powered down, so no virus or malware is going to survive. The entire fully functional version OS is being ran from RAM drive.
Also could you use resource monitor to see if the botnet is taking up connection resource?


----------



## codezer0 (Dec 18, 2017)

Joom said:


> Stop using a 12 year old PC. It's pretty easy.


No, it isn't that easy. Especially when i didn't have the money to even try to build or buy anything newer for a literal decade.

Also, that system, at least on 7, lets me still use it with modern browsers, and i could still use a capture card, so i could actually start recording gameplay from my consoles for twitch and start speedrunning. I couldn't even begin to move my main pc and desk to try to do that stuff with it.

Your statement comes off as insensitive, and insulting.


the_randomizer said:


> Okay that just freaking blows, to which I want to say to the manufacturer: what's wrong nVidia, afraid to make proper drivers?   Windows 10 sure seems all it's cracked up to be, amirite?


Can't really blame nvidia, when AMD bought ati on that side of things, and intel either refused to renew platform access permissions or flat out sued any and every maker of chipsets for their CPU's not that long after my board was made.

It's part of what makes current boards feel so samey, and boring. At least back when there was actual options to buy different chipsets, there were more interesting offerings. Neither intel nor AMD would have even bothered back then to make a chipset that could offer both a PCI express, and an agp slot in the transitional period, but ULI did, in the form of the 939Dual-SATA2 board. Intel didn't even want to support sli at all on their chipsets, until they basically scared off everyone else from being able to make chipsets compatible with intel processors so they could have an effective platform monopoly again. AMD buying their direct competitor with acquiring ati more or less killed any reason to continue making chip sets for AMD platforms as well.


----------



## Lacius (Dec 18, 2017)

VinLark said:


> You're implying Windows 10 isn't the final windows. I dunno, I just think 10 is going to be the definitive windows, Microsoft will just keep adding onto it. It's certainly not going to get replaced in 2025.


They might, but I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with Windows 11 or something else as one of their free and automatic updates.


----------



## Pacheko17 (Dec 18, 2017)

Yeah, sure.
W10 is lightweight, it's fast and it's modern.
I mean, I advise against using Windows entirely, but if you have to, then go with the latest one. 
I think 8.1 is fine too for now, but anything before that is a big no-no.


----------



## 330 (Dec 18, 2017)

Lacius said:


> They might, but I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with Windows 11 or something else as one of their free and automatic updates.


http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...-confirms-there-will-be-no-windows-11-1293309

Although I'm 50% sure they will do the same they did with Internet Explorer: simple re-branding.


----------



## Joom (Dec 18, 2017)

RandomUser said:


> I know this quote isn't for me, but it does pertain to me, the beauty of my setup is that everything is lost the moment the computer reboots or powered down, so no virus or malware is going to survive. The entire fully functional version OS is being ran from RAM drive.
> Also could you use resource monitor to see if the botnet is taking up connection resource?


It only takes one time to get anything useful from you. Even if you have a Deep Freeze host (or something similar) a keylogger or something like the Pony stealer would mine enough off of you. My point was about how @jefffisher might think he's being safe, when in reality that kind of mindset makes one totally open to someone that knows what they're doing. Just because your AV doesn't go off doesn't mean you're not infected. Runtime and scantime detections are easily bypassed since AVs heavily rely on heuristics. This is why I strongly advise against using services like VirusTotal because they're incredibly unreliable. And yes, you could use Resource Monitor, or any verbose firewall (I really like NOD32's) to check outgoing connections. If you want to do analysis locally, PE Explorer and Sandboxie are also helpful. If you ever suspect that you might be infected check for processes running from AppData. Malware tends to drop here because it can execute without triggering the UAC prompt.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Dec 18, 2017)

I think the word you're looking for is "obsolete".
But it's certainly not dead.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 18, 2017)

Joom said:


> Stop using a 12 year old PC. It's pretty easy.



Gee, we're so very sorry people like us don't have the money and resources to get a new and high-end PC every year like you. Give him a break.  Who pissed in your cereal this morning?



codezer0 said:


> Can't really blame nvidia, when AMD bought ati on that side of things, and intel either refused to renew platform access permissions or flat out sued any and every maker of chipsets for their CPU's not that long after my board was made.
> 
> It's part of what makes current boards feel so samey, and boring. At least back when there was actual options to buy different chipsets, there were more interesting offerings. Neither intel nor AMD would have even bothered back then to make a chipset that could offer both a PCI express, and an agp slot in the transitional period, but ULI did, in the form of the 939Dual-SATA2 board. Intel didn't even want to support sli at all on their chipsets, until they basically scared off everyone else from being able to make chipsets compatible with intel processors so they could have an effective platform monopoly again. AMD buying their direct competitor with acquiring ati more or less killed any reason to continue making chip sets for AMD platforms as well.



One more reason why I haven't used AMD products in well over a decade, to be perfectly blunt.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 18, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Gee, we're so very sorry people like us don't have the money and resources to get a new and high-end PC every year like you. Give him a break.
> 
> 
> 
> One more reason why I haven't used AMD products in well over a decade, to be perfectly blunt.


Now that's a tad pretentious.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 18, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Now that's a tad pretentious.



*Shrug* Okay? I don't like their products for a variety of reasons, like their shoddy driver support as he stated above, esp. for chipset drivers  Not to mention that Joom was being condescending as hell to him, so he kinda deserved me being smarmy about it. "Stop using  a 12 year old PC" wow, how low can one get? He assumed that codezero0 can afford top notch hardware every year and was inferior for it.

I don't like AMD, I don't think I need to explain or excuse my bias to anyone, really, other than I've had bad experiences with them and never had one with Nvidia, so...


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 18, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> *Shrug* I don't like their products for reasons I'd rather not explain on here.  And hey, Joom was being condescending as hell, so he kinda deserved me being smarmy about it. "Stop using  a 12 year old PC" wow, how rude can one get? He assumed that codezero0 can afford top notch hardware every year or something.
> 
> I don't like AMD, I don't think I need to explain or excuse my bias to anyone, really, other than I've had bad experiences with them and never had one with Nvidia, so...


That's true. None of his business what hardware someone is using.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 18, 2017)

Memoir said:


> That's true. None of his business what hardware someone is using.



Exactly, hence why I called out that other user, who is he to do that?


----------



## codezer0 (Dec 18, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Gee, we're so very sorry people like us don't have the money and resources to get a new and high-end PC every year like you. Give him a break.  Who pissed in your cereal this morning?
> 
> 
> 
> One more reason why I haven't used AMD products in well over a decade, to be perfectly blunt.


Not really a knock against AMD. Back in that day, I was very much an AMD (CPU) fanboy... the reason I went with the 680i was because CPU-wise, intel's Core 2 was indeed better, but intel's own chipsets were so same-y and limited, and for lack of better wording, boring. nForce chipsets were undisputably king for AMD CPU's because they were indeed faster and all the OC records at the time were done on them (DFI boards most frequently). But then, as if hearing the cries of those having to contemplate a platform switch, NVIDIA just came out of nowhere and brought us a chipset for those Core 2 CPU's that just blew the doors off what intel itself was offering at the time.

It wasn't until the first-gen i7 that intel even bothered to offer SLI support for their chipsets; and fewer boards made that actually had the lanes and slots to support it. So it was annoying, but not surprising, when intel just started suing or refusing to renew licences for the likes of SiS, ULi, et al to make supporting chipsets for intel CPU's. All I could surmise on the AMD side, is that when AMD (the CPU company) bought ATI (the GPU guys), several people saw the writing on the wall, feared the same behavior, and NVIDIA (among others) just didn't bother.


----------



## the_randomizer (Dec 18, 2017)

codezer0 said:


> Not really a knock against AMD. Back in that day, I was very much an AMD (CPU) fanboy... the reason I went with the 680i was because CPU-wise, intel's Core 2 was indeed better, but intel's own chipsets were so same-y and limited, and for lack of better wording, boring. nForce chipsets were undisputably king for AMD CPU's because they were indeed faster and all the OC records at the time were done on them (DFI boards most frequently). But then, as if hearing the cries of those having to contemplate a platform switch, NVIDIA just came out of nowhere and brought us a chipset for those Core 2 CPU's that just blew the doors off what intel itself was offering at the time.
> 
> It wasn't until the first-gen i7 that intel even bothered to offer SLI support for their chipsets; and fewer boards made that actually had the lanes and slots to support it. So it was annoying, but not surprising, when intel just started suing or refusing to renew licences for the likes of SiS, ULi, et al to make supporting chipsets for intel CPU's. All I could surmise on the AMD side, is that when AMD (the CPU company) bought ATI (the GPU guys), several people saw the writing on the wall, feared the same behavior, and NVIDIA (among others) just didn't bother.



Damn man, I wish I had an extra motherboard or something to get, something that would actually work properly on newer OSes *sigh*   That still sucks.


----------



## jefffisher (Dec 18, 2017)

Joom said:


> You don't seem to understand how sophisticated malware works. Those that know what they're doing can bypass any AV detection. Even if it's not apparent, you're probably already part of a botnet. People like you are even more wide open because people like you think they know what they're doing when they don't. You're an idiot. It's the cold, hard truth. Even if you think you're being safe by preventing big, bad telemetrics from Microsoft by preventing updates, you're just opening yourself to any 14 year old with a Beta Bot setup. I honestly can't pity you, either. You are willingly allowing anyone into your computer because you ignorantly believe that Microsoft is out to get you more than actual malicious entities. Like I said, welcome to the ZeuS net. You are part of the conglomerate due to sheer stupidity.
> 
> 
> Stop using a 12 year old PC. It's pretty easy.


nothing goes through my network from my computer that isn't standard http through firefox, i don't have skype, steam or anything else that requires internet access i would notice even the smallest amount of traffic that didn't happen right when right when i'm loading a webpage the absolute only attack i'm vulnerable to is someone taking over my computer through a webpage i visit which as far as i know hasn't happened to anyone in a few years and even then mozilla will patch it before microsoft does. if that did happen i would notice long before the average user unless they somehow hacked my router too but that is up to date and isn't windows. my phone is probably at much more of a risk but hey if you want to look at my collection in pokemon go and a bunch of pictures of my dick just ask.
how can you even go on about how sophisticated malware is and then go on to think windows update is going to save you the bad stuff is going to slip right past windows update.
you sound young and uneducated maybe you should wait until you're out of college before the next time you try your hand at arguing. 
i like windows 7 and i like it exactly the way it is right now, and has been for the past 8 years and i'm going to keep it as is for as long as i can or until something i like more comes along; and you can go eat a bag of baby dicks.


----------



## ihaveahax (Dec 18, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> haven't had a problem in 8 years, realistically i think you're much more likely to get hit with new malware than old something that makes it past everything else is probably not going to be stopped by a windows update.
> you're probably either just paranoid or the type of guy to get viruses.





jefffisher said:


> nothing goes through my network from my computer that isn't standard http through firefox, i don't have skype, steam or anything else that requires internet access i would notice even the smallest amount of traffic that didn't happen right when right when i'm loading a webpage the absolute only attack i'm vulnerable to is someone taking over my computer through a webpage i visit which as far as i know hasn't happened to anyone in a few years and even then mozilla will patch it before microsoft does. if that did happen i would notice long before the average user unless they somehow hacked my router too but that is up to date and isn't windows. my phone is probably at much more of a risk but hey if you want to look at my collection in pokemon go and a bunch of pictures of my dick just ask.
> how can you even go on about how sophisticated malware is and then go on to think windows update is going to save you the bad stuff is going to slip right past windows update.
> you sound young and uneducated maybe you should wait until you're out of college before the next time you try your hand at arguing.
> i like windows 7 and i like it exactly the way it is right now, and has been for the past 8 years and i'm going to keep it as is for as long as i can or until something i like more comes along; and you can go eat a bag of baby dicks.


I would think you're the one that's way more paranoid is you, given that you think updates are evil and don't fix exploits when they actually do. you're just trying to justify having a bad position, that is all ("we get malware anyway, so i'll just leave myself exposed to all the malware instead of updating to block most of it!")

if you really think Microsoft would do something like that, why even use Windows if you don't trust it?

oh well, keep on the conspiracy I guess.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 18, 2017)

jefffisher said:


> nothing goes through my network from my computer that isn't standard http through firefox, i don't have skype, steam or anything else that requires internet access i would notice even the smallest amount of traffic that didn't happen right when right when i'm loading a webpage the absolute only attack i'm vulnerable to is someone taking over my computer through a webpage i visit which as far as i know hasn't happened to anyone in a few years and even then mozilla will patch it before microsoft does. if that did happen i would notice long before the average user unless they somehow hacked my router too but that is up to date and isn't windows. my phone is probably at much more of a risk but hey if you want to look at my collection in pokemon go and a bunch of pictures of my dick just ask.
> how can you even go on about how sophisticated malware is and then go on to think windows update is going to save you the bad stuff is going to slip right past windows update.
> you sound young and uneducated maybe you should wait until you're out of college before the next time you try your hand at arguing.
> i like windows 7 and i like it exactly the way it is right now, and has been for the past 8 years and i'm going to keep it as is for as long as i can or until something i like more comes along; and you can go eat a bag of baby dicks.


Classy. It's not a secret that you're wrong. You're spouting off nonsense that's objectively wrong and trying to shove it off as fact. You're running an outdated system (literally) and think anyone and everyone else is wrong or paranoid for updating. It's nothing short of an ego trip. You want to talk about arguing? You're like my 4 year old. Arguing without the slightest idea. Then you turn to insults. Cute.


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## Joom (Dec 18, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Gee, we're so very sorry people like us don't have the money and resources to get a new and high-end PC every year like you. Give him a break.  Who pissed in your cereal this morning?


When did I say I get one every year? When did I say he needs a high-end PC?


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## Futurdreamz (Dec 18, 2017)

Joom said:


> When did I say I get one every year? When did I say he needs a high-end PC?


from his standards a $30 Pentium that came out last year is high end


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## codezer0 (Dec 18, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> from his standards a $30 Pentium that came out last year is high end


In that case, might as well see if we could get Linux working on a Dreamcast VMU for him.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 18, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> from his standards a $30 Pentium that came out last year is high end


Wait. It's not?


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## TheDarkGreninja (Dec 18, 2017)

Futurdreamz said:


> from his standards a $30 Pentium that came out last year is high end


Wouldn't be a bad cpu to game on


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## codezer0 (Dec 18, 2017)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Wouldn't be a bad cpu to game on


Until you actually want to do more than that.

Try to game and stream? and it quickly becomes apparent you need more than a 4C/4T CPU to do it. Whether that be even like a Phenom II X6, a mainstream i7, a Ryzen or even one of the newer X299/z370 i7's.

Trying to game and stream on my previous main that is rocking a Core 2 Quad and even at lenient capture/stream settings, performance gets cut in half, if not worse. GPU encoding is the only way I'd be able to at all from that machine.


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## Futurdreamz (Dec 18, 2017)

codezer0 said:


> Until you actually want to do more than that.
> 
> Try to game and stream? and it quickly becomes apparent you need more than a 4C/4T CPU to do it. Whether that be even like a Phenom II X6, a mainstream i7, a Ryzen or even one of the newer X299/z370 i7's.
> 
> Trying to game and stream on my previous main that is rocking a Core 2 Quad and even at lenient capture/stream settings, performance gets cut in half, if not worse. GPU encoding is the only way I'd be able to at all from that machine.


I don't think he's talking about streaming.


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## TheDarkGreninja (Dec 18, 2017)

codezer0 said:


> Until you actually want to do more than that.
> 
> Try to game and stream? and it quickly becomes apparent you need more than a 4C/4T CPU to do it. Whether that be even like a Phenom II X6, a mainstream i7, a Ryzen or even one of the newer X299/z370 i7's.
> 
> Trying to game and stream on my previous main that is rocking a Core 2 Quad and even at lenient capture/stream settings, performance gets cut in half, if not worse. GPU encoding is the only way I'd be able to at all from that machine.



Indeed. Though I don't see everyone wanting to stream.


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## Captain_N (Dec 19, 2017)

wicksand420 said:


> I run windows 7 without problems, it's not that i'm stubborn, it is that i can't afford a new OS, and I think i'm not alone either. the simple fact is that when microsoft comes out with a new OS, should we all run to them and throw our money away?



lol. how can you not have enough money for windows 10. Its free. just torrent an iso of windows 10 home. read the comments to see if its reported a bad torrent. you can download windows 10 iso's for free with Microsoft own tool. and for *activation use the kspico activator*. I have done this and i can confirm it works. i can give you a clean one if you need that i vigorously tested on real hardware. 

Here is the tool from Microsoft. Just install then activate with Kspico. Don't spend money.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

And remember you can use windows 7 as long as you want. I installed windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit on a intel core i9 for a client because he wanted it and it works great. Who cares if the support is gone. As for the using NVMe do you really need something that fast?  that shit is expensive and if your worried about boot times just leave your computer on. I leave 3 computers on 24/7 My 2007 windows xp Sp2 core 2 quad from 2007 i built, a dell vostro 400 as my windows 2008 r2 server and a free nas box. My xp machine has been on 24/7 since 2007. i had a old Pentium 4 1.6 server from 2002 that was on 24/7 since 2005...


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 19, 2017)

It is not dead until Microsoft says it is! Silly. Just wait! Or update to Windows 10 if you want to.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 19, 2017)

VinLark said:


> You're implying Windows 10 isn't the final windows. I dunno, I just think 10 is going to be the definitive windows, Microsoft will just keep adding onto it. It's certainly not going to get replaced in 2025.


yea... nobody knows exactly what is going to happen in 2025

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Captain_N said:


> lol. how can you not have enough money for windows 10. Its free. just torrent an iso of windows 10 home. read the comments to see if its reported a bad torrent. you can download windows 10 iso's for free with Microsoft own tool. and for *activation use the kspico activator*. I have done this and i can confirm it works. i can give you a clean one if you need that i vigorously tested on real hardware.
> 
> Here is the tool from Microsoft. Just install then activate with Kspico. Don't spend money.
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> ...


i can only image your electric bill... I dont really recommend torrenting because you can just download the official tool and then use a software to activate it much easier and safer


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## rickwj324 (Dec 19, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> lol. how can you not have enough money for windows 10. Its free. just torrent an iso of windows 10 home. read the comments to see if its reported a bad torrent. you can download windows 10 iso's for free with Microsoft own tool. and for *activation use the kspico activator*. I have done this and i can confirm it works. i can give you a clean one if you need that i vigorously tested on real hardware.
> 
> Here is the tool from Microsoft. Just install then activate with Kspico. Don't spend money.
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> ...



No need for torrents.  Win 10 is still free to upgrade from Microsoft (at least until December 31st).  https://www.cnet.com/how-to/microsoft-windows-10-free-upgrade-offer-assistive-features/
I 've upgraded quite a few pc's this way.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 19, 2017)

rickwj324 said:


> No need for torrents.  Win 10 is still free to upgrade from Microsoft (at least until December 31st).


even then im sure people still have the tool available somewhere
this is how i get windows movie maker


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## Captain_N (Dec 19, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> yea... nobody knows exactly what is going to happen in 2025
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



my electric bill is not much at all. 60% of my electric bill is the damn air conditioner. I live in south florida. During the winter my bill is about $70. during the summer specially august its was $209 lol


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## spotanjo3 (Dec 19, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> my electric bill is not much at all. 60% of my electric bill is the damn air conditioner. I live in south florida. During the winter my bill is about $70. during the summer specially august its was $209 lol



Yeah, I know how you feel. I had the same experienced when I was lived in Florida for 9 years and cannot stand the summer. Oh my gosh, air conditioner was so expensive that my electric bill shoot up to 130 dollars or something in Orlando. Anyway, I moved back up north and I am glad I did!


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## Magnus87 (Dec 19, 2017)

My W7x64 HDD died after 11 years, before I had XP and Vista on that drive.

Now I use a Kingston NV400 240GB with 10


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## dAVID_ (Dec 19, 2017)

Not yet. God I detest all these elitists that call an OS old just because it was made in 200X, even though a *lot of people* still use it. And unofficial service packs like @DinohScene said.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 19, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> my electric bill is not much at all. 60% of my electric bill is the damn air conditioner. I live in south florida. During the winter my bill is about $70. during the summer specially august its was $209 lol





dAVID_ said:


> Not yet. God I detest all these elitists that call an OS old just because it was made in 200X, even though a *lot of people* still use it. And unofficial service packs like @DinohScene said.


those do eveutall wear out too


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## hobbledehoy899 (Dec 19, 2017)

smf said:


> Linux has too many exploits for me.


What do you mean? If Linux has to many exploits for you then I'm surprised you even use the Internet at all, the vast majority of servers run on operating system that uses the Linux kernel.


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## dAVID_ (Dec 19, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> those do eveutall wear out too



Windows 10 with Cortana the "assistant" that half of the time tries to google the question you ask her also runs out, but I'm not making a thread about it.


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## Nightwish (Dec 19, 2017)

Even XP isn't dead, sorry. My barely used decade-old EEE is still going strong virus free, sorry. Using an OS that kills itself and whatever else is on the hard drive when it updates isn't an option, sorry. At least the spying can be stopped, I've read, if you're willing to hack it to pieces enough. Yes, Stasibook gets blocked too.
But other than for a couple of games, I've already upgraded to Linux, and most of the non-AAA repetitive crap runs just fine.


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## Joom (Dec 19, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> He assumed that codezero0 can afford top notch hardware every year and was inferior for it.


No. You are vastly incorrect. Also, $200 laptops can run 10. Sorry if that's the year's allowance. Pick up a paper route.


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## FateForWindows (Dec 19, 2017)

*Windows 7 userbase: *"If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

*Microsoft:* "Okay!"

_breaks Windows 8_


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## Kioku_Dreams (Dec 19, 2017)

FateForWindows said:


> *Windows 7 userbase: *"If it ain't broken, don't fix it."
> 
> *Microsoft:* "Okay!"
> 
> _breaks Windows 8_


That is what happens when you want to enter the mobile market.


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## the_randomizer (Dec 19, 2017)

Joom said:


> No. You are vastly incorrect. Also, $200 laptops can run 10. Sorry if that's the year's allowance. Pick up a paper route.



Well lah dee freaking dah.. You were still being condescending to him when his motherboard clearly didn't have driver support for his chipset, so that was unnecessarily rude. And for the record, there are better, more subtle ways of pointing it out without resorting to being smarmy  I have a job, thank you, it's too bad I don't give a rat's ass about Windows 10.


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## Dominator211 (Dec 19, 2017)

dAVID_ said:


> Windows 10 with Cortana the "assistant" that half of the time tries to google the question you ask her also runs out, but I'm not making a thread about it.


cortana is a pretty useless feature if you ask me i never use her and she always pops up at the worst time


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## the_randomizer (Dec 19, 2017)

Dominator211 said:


> cortana is a pretty useless feature if you ask me i never use her and she always pops up at the worst time



Glad you can turn off useless crap like that https://www.windowscentral.com/how-turn-cortana-and-stop-personal-data-gathering-windows-10


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## Lacius (Dec 19, 2017)

Captain_N said:


> lol. how can you not have enough money for windows 10. Its free. just torrent an iso of windows 10 home. read the comments to see if its reported a bad torrent. you can download windows 10 iso's for free with Microsoft own tool. and for *activation use the kspico activator*. I have done this and i can confirm it works. i can give you a clean one if you need that i vigorously tested on real hardware.
> 
> Here is the tool from Microsoft. Just install then activate with Kspico. Don't spend money.
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> ...


Toolkits like kspico (or more popularly, Microsoft Toolkit) only activate Windows 10 for 180 days and work by installing to the system and constantly resetting the 180-day counter. There are better ways to activate Windows 10 permanently.


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## jefffisher (Dec 19, 2017)

ihaveamac said:


> I would think you're the one that's way more paranoid is you, given that you think updates are evil and don't fix exploits when they actually do. you're just trying to justify having a bad position, that is all ("we get malware anyway, so i'll just leave myself exposed to all the malware instead of updating to block most of it!")
> 
> if you really think Microsoft would do something like that, why even use Windows if you don't trust it?
> 
> oh well, keep on the conspiracy I guess.


you are misunderstanding i don't distrust microsoft and i don't doubt updates have benefits but i *LIKE *my computer the way it is, it's as simple as that.
i have literally no network traffic ever when my computer is not in use i don't think i have anything to worry about.
nothing has ever happened to my computer and in the unlikely event that it did it wouldn't be a big deal.


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## SaberLilly (Dec 29, 2017)

Honestly, I won't really consider Windows 7 "dead" until Microsoft cuts all support for it, even then I'm willing to bet its going to end up being like Windows XP where people just refuse to stop using it, I mean the "power users" who build a brand new Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake/Ryzen/Threadripper will more than likely consider it dead due to lack of suport for those processors but if you're just the average user who doesn't care what its running on as long as the machine starts up when you hit the power button, I imagine those are the people who are going to be using it until the day it gets all support cut off and then some. (or the paranoid PC user who believes that the government is using Windows 10 to spy on them or however that whole telemetry fiasco went.)


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