# Bee in my bonnet.....



## Darkforce (Feb 3, 2003)

I've been annoyed by this for a long time but I had to get it off my chest and so while restraining myself from using any strong language I will try to explain why I am so angry (Please imagine some words in a much stronger context to show how I really feel about the situation) with you and the rules.

I'll use the suspension of *arunforce* as an example. Now you banned him for talking about and requesting warez sites (As you yourself said in the last post of this thread and this). But was he doing anything that was against the rules....? No!

Now looking over the rules (here) it says and I quote:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Warez , Crackz and Serialz
> Links to illegal software will be removed together with illegal stuff such as serials and cracks. Keep the board clean.
> NO Psx, DC, Ps2, X-Box ISOS. NO PC games.
> 
> ...



So you expect everyone to obey your rules even though you can't keep them yourself. Not a great example to set......and you wonder why people _still_ request and post rom links? Then you suspend someone who is actually obeying the rules......

I'm gonna keep my comments about what I think of you to myself (and no they're not very pleasant), but if something could be sorted out over this situation then that would be great (BTW it's pointless making a witty comment like banning me because I'm on a dial-up modem and my ip changes everytime I dial up  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .)


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## Goshogun (Feb 3, 2003)

he was asking for ISO links...

u didnt read his 2 topics in the GBATemp Jail??


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## neocat (Feb 3, 2003)

That's not the point
1. This forum is about GBA not other consoles
2.he was only suspended for 24 hours it's only a warning (he wasn't banned)
3. the no rom links policy is for direct links where you click on the link and the rom starts downloading, if you post links to SITES with roms it's not wrong


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## Darkforce (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(Goshogun @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> he was asking for ISO links...
> 
> u didnt read his 2 topics in the GBATemp Jail??


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## xero (Feb 3, 2003)

Wow, everyone hates Kivan now.


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## neocat (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(Darkforce @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> 2. But he was still punnished......
> 3. Then how come KiVan removed many links to GBA rom sites from others posts? [sarcasm]No.... it has nothing to do with the fact that they have GBA roms on is it? It's just a "coincidence"[/sarcasm].


I'll give you the win on nr 1...
2. He was punished because it's clear: no ISOS... no begging, no linking
3. because _why must I think of a reason?_...
the ones on the link page he made can be considered this site's affilliates and not a link to rom sites for the sole purpose of downloading them whereas in other contexts they might be considered so


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## Darkforce (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(xero @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> Wow, everyone hates Kivan now.


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## xero (Feb 3, 2003)

What the heck is it with people just not accepting the fact someone was banned/suspended/etc?  You don't run the boards, so therefore I'd think it's safe to say that you have no input.  Let the mods/admins do their job and shut up already.

And would you put up with someone who posts 5-6 times in 1 thread begging for links to ISO sites? Hell, beggin for anything?  I certainly wouldn't, and I'd have much less mercy than the staff here.  All it would have taken was 1 person to post a link and there would have been an issue.


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## neocat (Feb 3, 2003)

Yes he is...
If we wants to beg let him go to a warez forum...
The main problem is that he didn't post anything GBA related...
Let's say he had made 10 GBA posts and then asked for ISOS once... it wouldn't be too bad


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## xero (Feb 3, 2003)

Just caught this...



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> I'm gonna keep my comments about what I think of you to myself (and no they're not very pleasant), but if something could be sorted out over this situation then that would be great (BTW it's pointless making a witty comment like banning me because I'm on a dial-up modem and my ip changes everytime I dial up Â.)



Well, I know some webboards will allow the administrator to set a block of IPs as banned and allow restricted access by username, which in effect would ban you.  Hopefully that can be used here if things get really really bad.


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## shaunj66 (Feb 3, 2003)

Someone really has way too much time on their hands.


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## neocat (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(xero @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> Well, I know some webboards will allow the administrator to set a block of IPs as banned and allow restricted access by username, which in effect would ban you.Â Hopefully that can be used here if things get really really bad.Â


No because if the admin banned loads of IP's h'd also be banning innocent users from the same ISP as for different nicknames you can just make another account


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## Darkforce (Feb 3, 2003)

Xero- True I have no input, and I never expected anything to be done, but as a member I felt the need to raise the topic. On GBAetc and other forums we make an attempt to listen to our members rather than have the forum run in an autocratic way by power hungry admins.

Coolcat- That's not the point.....the point is that he didn't break the rules yet got punnished, yet KiVan can't even stick to them himself.


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## xero (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(coolcat @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> QUOTE(xero @ Feb 3 2003 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I know some webboards will allow the administrator to set a block of IPs as banned and allow restricted access by username, which in effect would ban you.  Hopefully that can be used here if things get really really bad.
> ...



If these admins were power hungry, you'd have been canned as soon as you posted this, along with about 5-6% of the entire board.  They put up with a lot of crap from us users, and seeing as very few users are actually suspended/banned, I'd say they're keeping it clean only by making examples rather than just taking out anything that isn't to their liking.


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## neocat (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(xero @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> QUOTE(coolcat @ Feb 3 2003 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(xero @ Feb 3 2003 said:
> ...


But the innocent users within that IP block would change IP too and that would mean the admin would need to update the list of allowed users every day


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## xero (Feb 3, 2003)

I STILL think you're missing it, hehe.  No prob tho, I'll try to explain another way.

User1, User 2, User3, and User 4 are all on the IP block of 192.168.xxx.xxx.  User1 is banned from the boards and keeps trying to create new accounts to get back in.  The administrator wants to stop this, so he bans ALL of the 192.168.xxx.xxx block.  He then writes a script or makes some access table for those users.  So, when User2 logs in, it sees he is from IP block 192.168.xxx.xxx and see if his USERNAME is on the access list.  If so, he logs in fine.  If not, it will say he is banned and doesn't have access.

Does that make it any clearer for you?  I hope so, cause I'm all out of ways to explain!


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## KiVan (Feb 3, 2003)

Darkforce you seem so angry, i don't understand why.
The rules are there, and be careful , i HAVEN'T LISTED everything it's forbidden in the board, for example i have not written you can't threaten of dead members or post links to GameCube isos, THAT does not mean that you can ACTUALLY do those things.

Now you say that the rules state that ROMS REQUESTS ARE FORBIDDEN BUT since i haven't written that ISOS requests are forbidden then users may request ISOS!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  lol

Damn i should modify the rules and write that porn movies requests are not allowed, mp3 requests are not allowed , stolen stuff requests are not allowed.. poor me .. i hope that i won't forget anything.

Do you see that your post is quite pointless? or you just feel your belly warm to find everything i haven't listed in the rules to point it out?

I've posted the GBA scene links SINCE that was the only thing that my provider LET ME TO DO about roms, do you want me to remove that too? i have no problems you know , i ve got all the stuff in need on my comp.

Finally, 24 hours suspension is FAIR, not because he asked for ISOS multiple times, but because he opened ANOTHER post begging for them, as i explained in the jail.

Maybe you want to see a forum full of requests of PC games and stuff... tons of post asking for PM with isos links in them... sorry this is not the place.

This is GBAtemp... _NOT_ WAREZtemp 

Regards


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## neocat (Feb 3, 2003)

QUOTE(xero @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> Does that make it any clearer for you?Â I hope so, cause I'm all out of ways to explain!Â


I understand now


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## Darkforce (Feb 3, 2003)

Ah now for a change of attitude I must say thank you for filling me in.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> I've posted the GBA scene links SINCE that was the only thing that my provider LET ME TO DO about roms
> 
> I still think it's a bit of a dodge, but I'll let it slide. The provider confuses me but I know how hard it is to get a fricking decent server.... GBAetc is as slow as anything at the moment. Although I have to admit your rom links suck big time.
> 
> QUOTEMaybe you want to see a forum full of requests of PC games and stuff... tons of post asking for PM with isos links in them... sorry this is not the place.



God no the why download them when you can buy them from shops copy them and then take them back, lol. It wasn't about the isos or even that idiot who kept requesting for them I just wanted to bring up the question of why we weren't allowed to post rom links when you can and also the point that maybe you are being too harsh on some members.

Like come on a lot may be fricking idiots but they are human, I know this is a busy place and how you do things is your way, but at GBAetc we often try talking to people before they get told off, more often than not it turns out that people geninely didn't mean to do wrong and simply didn't realise they were in trouble, ok so like you said you can't always make the rules exactly perfect, but then there are a lot of idiots on this planet who can't understand them.

p.s Ban me if it makes you feel good and you think that I deserve it, I've never really got on well here to be honest and get on much better at GBAetc (There are some great friendships between people on there), although I'd admit I'd be sad not being able to look at the flash linker topics, it's your forum so do as you please.


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## KiVan (Feb 3, 2003)

mmh... where did i write that i was planning to ban you?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I know that on GBAetc it's different, but they don't have to handle 10'000 users. The can examine each case personally, i can't.

I need to keep the community a safe place and 24 hours of suspension don't harm anyone, maybe he will log on tomorrow without noticing that he was suspended


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## Darkforce (Feb 3, 2003)

I've been annoyed by this for a long time but I had to get it off my chest and so while restraining myself from using any strong language I will try to explain why I am so angry (Please imagine some words in a much stronger context to show how I really feel about the situation) with you and the rules.

I'll use the suspension of *arunforce* as an example. Now you banned him for talking about and requesting warez sites (As you yourself said in the last post of this thread and this). But was he doing anything that was against the rules....? No!

Now looking over the rules (here) it says and I quote:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Warez , Crackz and Serialz
> Links to illegal software will be removed together with illegal stuff such as serials and cracks. Keep the board clean.
> NO Psx, DC, Ps2, X-Box ISOS. NO PC games.
> 
> ...



So you expect everyone to obey your rules even though you can't keep them yourself. Not a great example to set......and you wonder why people _still_ request and post rom links? Then you suspend someone who is actually obeying the rules......

I'm gonna keep my comments about what I think of you to myself (and no they're not very pleasant), but if something could be sorted out over this situation then that would be great (BTW it's pointless making a witty comment like banning me because I'm on a dial-up modem and my ip changes everytime I dial up  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .)


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## phuzzz (Feb 3, 2003)

Naw, you don't need to be banned.  This makes interesting conversation.  That does bring up a good point about talking to them first.  It might be a good idea to tell them first (especially if they are new to the board).  What that dude was doing wasn't illegal, but it could have gotten other people in trouble.  However, I must agree with Darkforce.  Possibly you could tell them right out first, and if they keep doing it, then do the nessesary punishment.  I'm sure when arunforce gets back on, he'll be a little more careful what he does.

There's my two cents.


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## Tempest Stormwin (Feb 3, 2003)

It's my take that there's a lot of misinterpretation going around. Darkforce is just the most recent on this, and he's admitted it.

My big beef on this is that it seems that there's no understanding of the phrase "spirit of the law".  Just because the rules say "no rom requests" doesn't mean you can "beg for an ISO" because you aren't "requesting" a "rom" (even though the words match on a meaning basis, they aren't the same word).  I understand this. Most of us do. Arunforce wasn't one of them, and when he gets back he should have learned from this.

There's also no point in attacking the mods. They do a great job (especially KiVan -- if I were in his place, taking all the crap he's been getting lately, by now I'd have snapped and announced I was taking a vacation!).  They don't deserve attacks.  Darkforce's isn't a good example of this (since you're arguing on an interpreation of the rules instead of saying "don't be a loser kivan" or something), but, say, Undertaker's was.

Just my thought...

-Tempest out.-


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## Saria (Feb 3, 2003)

Mind you alot of people dont speak english very well - and the rules arent there for everyone to see unless they goto the actual topic

I have trouble sometimes navigating the forum - looking for a specific topic other than the most active ones....

But thats beside the point

People expect a service here - but in actual fact the only service thats provided here is a place for users to share their common interest(s) - It's the same on IRC

Just cos KiVan runs the room and the forum - the users are what creates it - If people come in the room posting links and create a sour atmosphere or are not aware of the rules or for whatever reason - then two things can happen - the regular people go elsewhere - and the room dies eventually

KiVan and the Mods are here to oversee that that doesnt happen - I wouldnt wish that on them - alot of work goes into maintaining a forum - and bless them for that part of the 'Service' they provide - no one asked them to - they do it because they care - so in return they expect - respect and order in return ....

Just cos KiVan says No Rom Requests - An Iso is a CD  *ROM* image
So technically that falls under the same category....
Dont take the rules literally - cos thats just nit-picking 
KiVan doesnt need to create a never ending list of Do's and Dont's
A bit of commonsense goes along way - and most of us are intelligent enough - even those who dont master the English language perfectly

You do a great job KiVan... and so the moderators - and thus far you have treated people fairly and with reason
people that get banned - deserved it - cos Kivan and Co aren't gonna randomly pick users that they can ban - thats just stupid - and unfair to even go there - 

Arunforce is a pain - persistant and wont let up - and well I think the suspension was justified - 
I have had like 3 pm's from him today - asking the same thing - 
so.. I can understand where Kivan was coming from....

Peace and harmony - thats what the world needs - and no doubt thats what KiVan wants here also - so let him run it as he sees fit - after all - he's only human.....

-Saria-


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## fluffykiwi (Feb 4, 2003)

It sounds like someone is under the belief that the internet or this board should be fair.  Sorry life isnt like that though this board is closer than most.

As explained not every possibility is included in the rules, and shouldnt have to be, if you want to argue fine print become a lawyer, dont post on a board.  You know what the rules are about and arguing that because it isnt written down exactly you think it's allowed just serves to make you seem less intelligent than you clearly are.

The relevant part of the rules is :-
Warez , Crackz and Serialz
Links to illegal software will be removed together with *illegal stuff *such as serials and cracks. Keep the board clean.
*NO Psx, DC, Ps2, X-Box ISOS. NO PC games*. 

Please note "such as" is used when giving some examples and does not imply it covers everything. 
Listing PS2 games wasnt against the rules, it's not illegal to own games, but asking for copies was, this was why he was named in the closing of the thread and what was his reaction, to start another thread to continue breaking rules and risk the site being closed down by the provider.
Maybe a suspension will make him think again, but I doubt it.

The rule about posting direct links to roms seems very clear to me.
Direct link means click it and it downloads, none of the sites Kivan posted are direct links.
Direct links make the board illegal in the eyes of his provider, and a link to a site with has direct links does not.
As to Kivan closing down other links that werent direct, my guess is he doesnt want people advertising links to forums that are direct competitors to this one, which is his right, and something he should continue doing

I think a more useful rule would be no advertising of other sites as to me what this was really about was you wanting to post how great your own favourite gba forum was in relation to the gbatemp one.  I also think that you actually do wish to be banned, I've no idea why but you seem to ask for it and assume it's coming an awful lot when no-one has suggested that's the case.


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## dice (Feb 4, 2003)

QUOTE(phuzzz @ Feb 3 2003 said:


> Naw, you don't need to be banned.Â This makes interesting conversation.Â That does bring up a good point about talking to them first.Â It might be a good idea to tell them first (especially if they are new to the board).Â What that dude was doing wasn't illegal, but it could have gotten other people in trouble.Â However, I must agree with Darkforce.Â Possibly you could tell them right out first, and if they keep doing it, then do the nessesary punishment.Â I'm sure when arunforce gets back on, he'll be a little more careful what he does.
> 
> There's my two cents.


I do agree with most of what you sid BUT...
There is a message of the rules for the forum when you fist register, plus there's a topic stating the rules already. Maby they should get a warning but remember arunforce WAS WARNED AT LEAST ONCE not to do what he did many times. He and other people wouldn't do this sort of thing if they READ THE RULES.


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## thebluesnote (Feb 4, 2003)

And it's the other members' responsibility too to warn the offending member, not to wait for the "official" one. I remember TJ when we tossed him around all day. I mean, look at him NOW.


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## phuzzz (Feb 4, 2003)

QUOTE(dice @ Feb 4 2003 said:


> I do agree with most of what you sid BUT...
> There is a message of the rules for the forum when you fist register, plus there's a topic stating the rules already. Maby they should get a warning but remember arunforce WAS WARNED AT LEAST ONCE not to do what he did many times. He and other people wouldn't do this sort of thing if they READ THE RULES.


That's true, I'll give you the fact that in is specifically in the rules that this shouldn't be done.  However, if you notice, KiVan closed the first post AFTER arunforce had already made another one.  That's like a kid takes one cookie one time without being yelled at, so later he takes another one since no one told him otherwise.  Then the parent warns the kid for the first one an immediately punishes him for the second one.

Now don't get me wrong, I think KiVan is doing a great job.  And arunforce probably had it coming.  But you know, stuff happens.


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## Tempest Stormwin (Feb 4, 2003)

QUOTE(thebluesnote @ Feb 4 2003 said:


> And it's the other members' responsibility too to warn the offending member, not to wait for the "official" one. I remember TJ when we tossed him around all day. I mean, look at him NOW.


That's a good way of putting it, as usual for you, bluesnote.

I'd love to see what Arunforce has to say about all this...  quite possibly the sign-up page was seen like an EULA (which only a minority of people seem to believe is enforced), so his warning on the board was in essence his proof that we're serious about those terms, without having a zero-tolerance policy (but close to one, since it's certainly warranted here).

-Tempest out.-


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## Octavious (Feb 10, 2003)

why do some people have to go sifting through the rules to try to find a weakness? i mean cmon guys, if you do something wrong (wether you know its wrong or not) you will get told,and punished. that is how life works people.you dont need to go and try to find a loop hole to express your feelings. if you want to express your feelings grow up and do the mature thing and post something reasonable and then hide behind the excuse of o you cant ban me i change ip's. now honestly how imature is that. dont hide. come out and make a suggestion to the admin board. you dont need to flame em. and o ya, power to admin. your doing a great job.expesially kivan


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## ABCMan (Feb 25, 2003)

ok, my second post in 4 months

every forum has rules, written ones and unwritten ones that kind of develop, as admin on a board with almost 40,000 members its often a hard call when deciding to leave, suspend or ban a member, but like it or not it boils down to a decision made by the admin of the board and people have 2 choices, they can like  it or lump it.

defending someone you think has been treated unfairly can result in a decision being overturned if handled well or result in another person getting banned if handled badly.

no admin is perfect (especialy me) but day after day we are called on to make decisions that someone is going to disagree with and it is the mark of a good mod or admin that they are prepared to make those decisions, its irrelevent wether the admin in question is the owner of the board (as in this case) or simply helps run the board for a company (in my case). go to a well run forum and you will find willing helpfull members all pulling together for the good of the board, go to a badly run one and you end up with isonews or vcdquality (and the owners of both those are members on the board i admin)

i have recommended this site (and crickets) to people because they are well run by their admin and mod team and people arent forced to wade through sheets of flame to find the information they want.

thats my 2p worth

in referencce to the original post in this thread, you would be amazed at the ways that boards can ban members that use dynamic ip's (and i too use dynamic ip but not on 56k) yes, you may occasionaly find a way in, but you wouldnt last long.


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